# Adoption and adoption/seed faith (For PRs)



## Poimen (Aug 9, 2005)

I was hoping that someone like Matt or Scott could explain the following to me (or anyone else for that matter):

When the Reformers talk about the adoption of our covenant children, of what are they speaking of? Would they make a distinction, for example, between the adoption of Romans 9:4 (corporate) and the adoption of Romans 8:14-15 (individual)? I assume they would since being part of the body of Israel or the NT Church does not ensure regeneration and conversion. 

If they did make the distinction, could you point me to some passages in their 'works' (Institutes etc.) that I could look up and research myself? Thanks. 

Also, why I am at it, what is a "seed faith"? (as per Beza et al.) Is this something that every covenant child has, or only the elect and therefore, if so, we presume that our children have though they may not all have it? If so please provide citations from the Reformers. 

For example Matt says in his catechism:



> Question 13: In presuming that infants of believing parents are regenerate, does this mean they have an active and actual faith whereby they do good works, understand the Word of God, and meditate on it?
> 
> Answer: Infants do not have actual faith, but habitual faith, or faith of habit; for as an acorn possesses in it all the properties of a giant oak tree, so infants possess all the properties necessary for faith as "œseed faith" (a faith implanted in them by God and dormant until they reach an age in which they are able to rationally think); infants are unable to discern between their left hand and right hand, [24] not capable of acts of faith, [25] and not capable of hearing or meditating on the Word. [26]



http://tinyurl.com/6mx6q

I just want to make sure I understand these concepts rightly as I study this/these issues.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Aug 9, 2005)

Try this first:

http://www.apuritansmind.com/FrancisTurretin/francisturretinfaithofinfants.htm


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## Poimen (Aug 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by webmaster_
> Try this first:
> 
> http://www.apuritansmind.com/FrancisTurretin/francisturretinfaithofinfants.htm



Thanks Matt. I have read a good portion of it before and I found it helpful to review it again. It seems clear that Turretin taught, as well as the other Reformers, that only elect children have regeneration (with faith to be, ordinarily, brought about at the time of conversion, but we might assume that all of them do as well. 

However it does not address the subject of adoption. Anything else on this point (as I summarized in my post above)?

Nota bene: The main impetus in this study is in response to the FV men who want to say, it appears, that every child is saved and regenerate either from their covenantal status and/or baptism. 


[Edited on 8-9-2005 by poimen]

[Edited on 8-9-2005 by poimen]


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## Poimen (Aug 10, 2005)

Comparing Calvin's commentary on Romans 8:15 and Romans 9:4, it seems that he makes the distinction between a corporate and individual adoption (of which I spoke of in my first post). 

Concerning Romans 9:4 Calvin notes:



> For the Lord, passing by other nations, had selected them as a people peculiar to himself, and had adopted them as his children, as he often testifies by Moses and the prophets; and not content simply to give them the name of children, he calls them sometimes his firstbegotten, and sometimes his beloved.



Concerning Romans 8:15 Calvin notes:



> what he means here is sanctification, with which the Lord favors none but his own elect, and by which he separates them for sons to himself.... it must at the same time be noticed, that it was designedly, on account of false apostles, that a contrast was made between the literal disciples of the law, and the faithful whom Christ, the heavenly Teacher, not only addresses by words, but also teaches inwardly and effectually by his Spirit.



[Edited on 8-10-2005 by poimen]


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