# Divine Right of Presbyteries



## toddpedlar (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi all -

Is Samuel Rutherford's Divine Right of Presbyteries (or Church Government) reprinted by a modern company? I've poked around some and can't find anything new-ish... sorry I'm implicitly asking you to do my research for me.

Todd


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 31, 2007)

If you mean, has any one "reset" it and put it in modern type; I'm not aware of anyone doing this, though I know someone was supposedly working on typing it all up. That's been a few years ago. in my opinion there is no point doing photo reprints of Rutherford; he deserves new editions.


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## MW (Jul 31, 2007)

Due Right of Presbyteries is one work and Divine Right of Church Government is another. There are no new editions, but SWRB sells them in an untidy photocopy format. I could supply you with PDFs if you're interested.


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## Coram Deo (Jul 31, 2007)

Oooooh,

Both sound great... Anyway I can get the pdf copies also.... 

Michael




armourbearer said:


> Due Right of Presbyteries is one work and Divine Right of Church Government is another. There are no new editions, but SWRB sells them in an untidy photocopy format. I could supply you with PDFs if you're interested.


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## toddpedlar (Jul 31, 2007)

Sorry, the "Due Right of Presbyteries" is what I meant, by Rutherford. I have Jus Divinum, by the "Sundry Ministers"  And I would be happy to accept the proffered PDF file of the Rutherford, Pastor Winzer. 

Todd


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## MW (Jul 31, 2007)

I'll try to set up a download site and let you you know through this thread where to access it. Also, Rutherford has another work called Divine Right besides Due Right, which is different from the work produced by the London ministers. Please let me know if you would like a PDF of this also.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 31, 2007)

Matthew, you are probably the exception, but I'm not aware of anyone else that offers Rutherford's Due Right where it is not the Early English Book copy. I strongly suspect the Rutherford set available at the link in the previous post [since deleted; see here) is EEB's copy. Maybe I"m wrong; but I checked out the volume 1 of Perkins' Works they offer and one of the preview pages they give for viewing matches one page I checked online at EEB down to every dot, splotch, scratch and tear. Very disappointing since the site seems to claim they do their own scans. I bought a CD from another site that seems to have simply compiled the SWRB copies of Rutherford, which were all EEB and was disappointed to see they were not different examples; at least the ones I checked; all from EEB. They want $50 for their CD. I have a strong opinion on this and it is just plain theft, whether one is getting $50 per CD or 50 cents a title.


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## MW (Jul 31, 2007)

Chris, that's a real problem. The difference would be that my pdfs of Rutherford are scans of printouts from the original microfilm. Do you think it would be a breach of copyright (moral or legal) if I freely shared these with others?


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 31, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Chris, that's a real problem. The difference would be that my pdfs of Rutherford are scans of printouts from the original microfilm. Do you think it would be a breach of copyright (moral or legal) if I freely shared these with others?


If Todd has access to EEB then I wouldn't quibble; but to be honest, while I may have shared pages or worked jointly with files on research, I wouldn't be comfortable giving the files away myself if the person didn't have access, and honestly, most any one can get access that is near a major university.

[Edit. By access I mean someone can go to their U library that has EEB and copy Rutherford's Due right to a pen drive.]


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## MW (Jul 31, 2007)

Thanks Chris. I hate to be a cloud without rain, but I might have to withdraw the offer to provide the PDFs. Sorry Todd.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 31, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Thanks Chris. I hate to be a cloud without rain, but I might have to withdraw the offer to provide the PDFs. Sorry Todd.


Sorry to be a damp blanket; but not to worry, it shouldn't be too long before Google has everything Rutherford ever wrote; maybe just a few years before their HAL 3000 gets them.


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## toddpedlar (Jul 31, 2007)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Matthew, you are probably the exception, but I'm not aware of anyone else that offers Rutherford's Due Right where it is not the Early English Book copy. I strongly suspect the Rutherford set available at the link in the previous post [since deleted; see here) is EEB's copy. Maybe I"m wrong; but I checked out the volume 1 of Perkins' Works they offer and one of the preview pages they give for viewing matches one page I checked online at EEB down to every dot, splotch, scratch and tear. Very disappointing since the site seems to claim they do their own scans. I bought a CD from another site that seems to have simply compiled the SWRB copies of Rutherford, which were all EEB and was disappointed to see they were not different examples; at least the ones I checked; all from EEB. They want $50 for their CD. I have a strong opinion on this and it is just plain theft, whether one is getting $50 per CD or 50 cents a title.



Hi Chris -

Ah, yes, I recall this dispute. Nothing ever came of it, eh? 
Pastor Winzer, I do have EEBO access at school, for what that's worth.

Todd


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 31, 2007)

toddpedlar said:


> Hi Chris -
> 
> Ah, yes, I recall this dispute. Nothing ever came of it, eh?
> Pastor Winzer, I do have EEBO access at school, for what that's worth.
> ...


Well, Reg stopped selling the CDs in question; but nothing went to court so no legal ruling on the status of the copyright claimed far as I know. I reported one other company but never got any feedback and so it is hard to know if they have much prosecution zeal left?


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 1, 2007)

joshua said:


> What's EEBO?


Early English Books Online. It a subscription service libraries can get, and individuals too if you can afford it, to the old UMI EEB microfilm of all, or all they could find, of every English printed book from 1473-1700. They have been digitizing the films for he online service for a number of years; I think it is nearly complete but they are some more lacking for STC II (STC 1 covers up to 1640; STC 2 through 1700--STC is Short Title Catalog, the book list they followed to compile the titles).


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## CDM (Aug 1, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Thanks Chris. I hate to be a cloud without rain, but I might have to withdraw the offer to provide the PDFs. Sorry Todd.





NaphtaliPress said:


> Well, Reg stopped selling the CDs in question; but nothing went to court so no legal ruling on the status of the copyright claimed far as I know. I reported one other company but never got any feedback and so it is hard to know if they have much prosecution zeal left?



I spoke with the Pres. of SWRB and he encouraged me to make "a thousand" copies of the Puritan and Reformation bookshelf sets I purchased.

So, according to Reg Barrow, I have permission to freely distribute (not sell) any and all of the Puritan and Reformation CD sets (totaling 62) cd's.

Am I too understand that I am not legally permitted to do this?


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 1, 2007)

mangum said:


> I spoke with the Pres. of SWRB and he encouraged me to make "a thousand" copies of the Puritan and Reformation bookshelf sets I purchased.
> 
> So, according to Reg Barrow, I have permission to freely distribute (not sell) any and all of the Puritan and Reformation CD sets (totaling 62) cd's.
> 
> Am I too understand that I am not legally permitted to do this?


Chris,
Before doing that I would make sure that that is Proquest's position (the folks who sell the EEBO service and wrote the rules governing the use of the material they make available). Or, if you know for a fact that they told Reg that, then go for it.


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 1, 2007)

I also have to think that Proquest would see little difference between making 1000s of copies of the CDs available for free and simply putting the files online for free which would directly conflict with their service objectives.


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