# leaving my denomination



## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

After a long period of decision making and the fact that I've felt the Lord calling me through several ways about pursuing the full time ministry I'm in the process of eventually leaving the church of Scotland.

The thing that finally done it was the fact that to be a candidate you must agree with women in ministry. So I couldn't faced with the blantant facts in 1 timothy.

I would have been willing to have gone in and fight but i cant get in without lying really if thats the case and I cannot do that of course.


So now I'm on the search for a new denomination that isn't so liberal and i'm not so foolish now. Before I joined the church of Scotland I had no idea there was such a thing as a liberal minister and i thought they were reformed historically.


I've seen the free church of Scotland so far.

if you have any advice concerning denominations in my country then please post.

thanks a lot to the people i messaged for help through this issue.

Take Care,

God bless.


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## Mushroom (Jun 21, 2009)

May the Lord bless your endeavors, Lee. We'll be praying for you.


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## Rich Koster (Jun 21, 2009)

May God guide you. I would suggest checking doctrine & polity statements of all of the locals before visiting (if possible) to avoid another mess in progress.


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## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

yeah im gonna take it slow this time. thanks guys


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## Michael Doyle (Jun 21, 2009)

Lee, I will be praying for you, that you will find a home where you may worship and know the joy that Christ intended for His bride.


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## Ivan (Jun 21, 2009)

Praying, Lee.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 21, 2009)

If I lived in Scotland, I'd be in the Free Church of Scotland Continuing.


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## CalvinandHodges (Jun 21, 2009)

Hello Lee:

I am sorry to hear that you are leaving, but it is even more sorrowful to learn of the apostasy of the Church of Scotland.

There is a Reformed Congregation in Airdrie - which is about 30-40 minutes from Paisley. Here is their link:

http://www.airdrierpcs.org/

Rev. Quigley is a very godly man.

Blessings,

Rob


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## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

haha dont think im travelling for 40 min every sunday.


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## Berean (Jun 21, 2009)

Praying for wisdom and guidance for you, Lee. God Bless


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 21, 2009)

LeeJUk said:


> haha dont think im travelling for 40 min every sunday.



Lee, our American brothers on the PB think of journeytimes like that as chickenfeed!

If you are happy with the historic reformed position of the CoS then I would have thought that the Free Church or the Free Church (Continuing) would be a likely destination for you.


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## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

ya but i dont drive, so i doubt my dad's gonna drive me around and then back  considering hes not a church - goer.

I'm going to my first afternoon free church of Scotland service 2day. any advice?

I'm going in jeans i hope they don't have a dress code or something :s


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 21, 2009)




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## Curt (Jun 21, 2009)

LeeJUk said:


> haha dont think im travelling for 40 min every sunday.



Lee we do have some folks who have two hour drives (each way) to come to worship services.

When there is a scarcity of Bible-preaching congregations, one does one one must.

Praying for your transition.


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## BJClark (Jun 21, 2009)

LeeJUk;



> haha dont think im travelling for 40 min every sunday.



Might I suggest you at least contact him? He may know of something closer, or might be willing to see about a church plant in your area..


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## Marrow Man (Jun 21, 2009)

Believe it or not, brother, the ARP is going to plant a church in Scotland in the very near future.


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## he beholds (Jun 21, 2009)

Blessings as you search for a new home!



Marrow Man said:


> Believe it or not, brother, the ARP is going to plant a church in Scotland in the very near future.



That is awesome! Praise God!


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## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

Praise GOD

He's absolutely guided me in his sovereignty today. Like I said I had issue over women ministers in this mornings service, decided then on a whim to go to the free church of Scotland service in the afternoon. I just came back

The preacher came having only a weeks notice, he was originally scheduled for elsewhere and he was originally going to preach something else but something in acts caught him in his sermon prep. His whole sermon was literally jumping into my heart - the topic - the call to preach and God's sovereignty in raising up ministers. It was about acts and the call to preach the gospel and that verse about the Holy Spirit turning one of the apostles away from a town and sending him elsewhere(my vague memory). I mean the entire thing confirmed to me 2 things

1) God is calling me to preach/minister.
2) I'm called out of the Church of Scotland for sure. << this came up in the sermon too.

It was like that sermon and situation was custom built for me....

It was suuuch a relief to finally know and have it confirmed after today. I felt the Holy Spirit move strongly in my heart during the sermon and afterwords when I went up to talk to the preacher literally the presence of the Holy Spirit was just overcoming me I almost came to tears for some reason.


Just waiting on what to do next, whilst attending the free church.

yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssss
w000000000t

such a relief and joy.


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## Marrow Man (Jun 21, 2009)

Praise God for the powerful preaching of His word and the work of His Spirit in your heart, dear brother!


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## jambo (Jun 21, 2009)

I would go for the free church. If you want to move, why not hop across the water and try the Presbyterian church in Ireland which would be far more evangelical than the CoS. There is also the evangelical presbyterian church in Ireland as well as the reformed presbyterian church. And if you are thinking of something more extreme there are always the Free-Ps

Their links are
http://www.presbyterianireland.org/
EPC Home
Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland
http://www.freepres.org/main.asp


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## OPC'n (Jun 21, 2009)




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## Scott1 (Jun 21, 2009)

Be faithful
Be patient


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## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

you mean go live there? if i was to move to northern ireland i'd certainly go all out free-pres. though i dont know how my family would like that

i love they're preaching and they are very successful.
they've also helped me through email and stuff and they're sermons are powerful.


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## CalvinandHodges (Jun 21, 2009)

Hi Lee:

I am happy and glad for you, and I am sure that all things will work for good for you in the future.

I look forward to continuing our conversations here in the forums.

Blessings brother!

Rob


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## PresbyDane (Jun 21, 2009)




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## Romans 8 Verse 28 (Jun 21, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> If I lived in Scotland, I'd be in the Free Church of Scotland Continuing.



Good choice.


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## LeeJUk (Jun 21, 2009)

really dont know what the difference is to be honest.


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## Hippo (Jun 21, 2009)

Welcome to the Free Church of Scotland !


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## Peairtach (Jun 21, 2009)

Remembering you in prayer Lee. Take your time thinking and praying about denominations. I'll be in touch.

There's not usually a dress code in the FC these days.


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## ww (Jun 21, 2009)




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## Berean (Jun 21, 2009)

Could someone please explain what the "*continuing*" refers to in Free Church of Scotland Continuing? Thanks.


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## Montanablue (Jun 21, 2009)

Praying... Are there nonconformist churches in Scotland? When I lived in London, I attended an Anglican church that was low church and Bible-believing, but I also visited several nonconformist Baptist churches while traveling. I heard some excellent preaching in these churches and some of them were quite reformed although they took some exceptions to the WCF. This might be something worth looking into if transportation becomes an issue - I understand about the price of petrol! I think one reason we Americans are willing to drive so far for church is because our gas so so so cheap here - I can see why it would be a concern for you.


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## Peairtach (Jun 21, 2009)

In Scotland these smaller Presbyterian churches, apart from the CofS don't call themselves or look upon themselves as non-conforming. They are for the most part (the United Free Church of Scotland is a mixed denom like the Cofs) closer to the original model of Knox's CofS in that they are evangelical and Reformed and Liberal Theology is not allowed as it is in the national church.

The Church of Scotland was very thoroughly reformed in the 16th Century, much more than the English national church, and again against encroachments by the state and Episcopalianism etc in the 17th Century - sometimes called the Second Reformation and the period of the persecution of the Covenanters and the writing of the WCF.

Liberal Theology entered the CofS in the middle of the 19th Century. Before that there was "Moderatism" (associated with the Enlightenment) in the 18th Century and early 19th Century. With sometimes encouraging revivals here and there its been downhill ever since with an acceleration since the 1950s.

Texas is 8 1/2 times the size of Scotland. People in Scotland are not used to travelling the kind of distances people in America do in a day and back, partly because we live in a smaller country.


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Jun 21, 2009)

Lee,
Glad you made it to the Free Church. I am sure by now you've discovered that there is not a dress code. You are probably also aware that Free Church people do smile, have a sense of humor and are generally welcoming. They will also do mundane things on a Sunday like cook dinner!
I take it you were at Paisley FC. I think that they may be joining with Dowanvale FC. I believe that they are planning to continue services in Paisley and appoint an assistant pastor for Paisley in the hope of doing outreach work. 
Blessings to you and prayers for you. Any Q's re the FC don't hesitate to ask me.

-----Added 6/21/2009 at 08:53:25 EST-----



Richard Tallach said:


> Texas is 8 1/2 times the size of Scotland. People in Scotland are not used to travelling the kind of distances people in America do in a day and back, partly because we live in a smaller country.




Also the roads are better in Texas!


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## kceaster (Jun 21, 2009)

LeeJUk said:


> Praise GOD
> 
> He's absolutely guided me in his sovereignty today. Like I said I had issue over women ministers in this mornings service, decided then on a whim to go to the free church of Scotland service in the afternoon. I just came back
> 
> ...



I am glad for you. Can we not rejoice in His care of us? "He will tend His flock like a shepherd; He will gather the lambs in His arms; he will carry them in His bosom, and gently lead those that are with young."

In Christ,

KC


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## Prufrock (Jun 21, 2009)

Berean said:


> Could someone please explain what the "*continuing*" refers to in Free Church of Scotland Continuing? Thanks.



In 2000, there was a split regarding the carrying out (or lack thereof) of judicial investigation of a member of the Free Church. In accordance with their ordination vows, several ministers declared that their consciences could not be bound to courts acting against the constitution of the Free Church; thus, they broke off, considering themselves to be the "true continuation" of the original protest, and thus the true, "continuing" Free Church of Scotland.


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## Berean (Jun 21, 2009)

Prufrock said:


> Berean said:
> 
> 
> > Could someone please explain what the "*continuing*" refers to in Free Church of Scotland Continuing? Thanks.
> ...



Thanks, Paul, for taking the time to explain the term and its history.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 21, 2009)

One will not find much difference between the FCoS and FcoS-C. They share the same history, confession and constitution, both claiming to be the same denomination as existed pre-2000. The Continuing group is smaller. The groups have many ties through interrelated families. 

As an American, I have do part in the fight. I pray for healing of the division, and a unified evangelical and Presbyterian witness in Scotland. 

I’ve personally never worshiped with the FCoS; but have with the FCoS-C in both Scotland and the US, and have preached for them. My wife was a member of a FCoS-C congregation when we met and married six years ago in Glasgow. So, we know a number of people in the continuing group; fewer in the majority body.


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## LeeJUk (Jun 22, 2009)

yeah your right 21st century calvinist about whats happening with the associate pastor etc... how'd you know lol.

Yeah they're friendly people, and no dress code. though they're numbers are very small the spiritual maturity there is refreshing and the sound preaching filled with scripture.

anyway, take care.


Lee


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## Peairtach (Jun 22, 2009)

There are six or seven smaller Presbyterian denoms in Scotland

Reformed Presbyterian Church of Scotland (founded by Covenanters who didn't accept the Glorious Revolution Settlement of 1690). Evangelical and Reformed. The Reformed Presbyterian College is in Belfast.

Free Church of Scotland (founded 1843). Evangelical and Reformed. The Free Church College is in Edinburgh.

Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland (founded 1893). Evangelical and Reformed.

United Free Church of Scotland (founded 1900 and reconstituted in 1929). Mixed denomination.

Associated Presbyterian Churches (founded 1989). Evangelical and Reformed.

Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) (founded 2000). Evangelical and Reformed. The Free Church Seminary is in Inverness.

I also believe that the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster (Ian Paisley's) has a few congregations in Scotland. They are Evangelical and Reformed.

If you're interested check the websites.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 22, 2009)

Richard Tallach said:


> Free Church of Scotland (Continuing) (founded 2000).



The Free Church of Scotland Continuing would give the Disruption of 1843 as their beginning also. After all, they are "continuing." 

I don't know if either the FCoS or the FCoS-C would regard 1843 as a founding date, as they saw themselves as a continuation of the true CoS, without the Erastian intrusion of the civil government, or the unbelief of the so called “Moderate” wing of the CoS. They were recovering ground lost in the 1688 Settlement, which allowed compromised clergy to continue in office by paying lip service to a confession they did not believe, and the 1712 Act of Parliament taking away from congregations the right to choose their own pastors, giving that right to patrons. 

The Free Church of Scotland continued to affirm the principle of Establishment found in the WCF XXIII:3, while giving up its benefits if it meant compromising the church.

-----Added 6/22/2009 at 02:05:24 EST-----



Richard Tallach said:


> I also believe that the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster (Ian Paisley's) has a few congregations in Scotland. They are Evangelical and Reformed.



I appreciate the passionate preaching of the Ulster Free Presbyterians; but, are they “Presbyterian”?


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## LeeJUk (Jun 22, 2009)

"I appreciate the passionate preaching of the Ulster Free Presbyterians; but, are they “Presbyterian”? " - Glenn

Yeah they have that form of government and they hold to the Westminster confessions and catechisms.


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## MAV (Jun 22, 2009)

*ARP plant in Scotland*

With the multitude of presbyterian denominations in Scotland the last thing we need is another one. We are, however, a mission field.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 22, 2009)

LeeJUk said:


> "I appreciate the passionate preaching of the Ulster Free Presbyterians; but, are they “Presbyterian”? " - Glenn
> 
> Yeah they have that form of government and they hold to the Westminster confessions and catechisms.



And, what's their practice and belief regarding baptism?

Some of their congregations in North America are denying paedobaptism has any validity.

And, what's their position on the Regulative Principle of Worship?


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 22, 2009)

LeeJUk said:


> "I appreciate the passionate preaching of the Ulster Free Presbyterians; but, are they “Presbyterian”? " - Glenn
> 
> Yeah they have that form of government and they hold to the Westminster confessions and catechisms.



From their website:

*The Stand of the Free Presbyterian Church*

There are many churches and denominations in the world. How is the Free Presbyterian similar to, or different from other churches? The Free Presbyterian Church is:

*Fundamental in Doctrine,* believing in the divine authority and verbal inspiration of the Bible, and the great fundamental doctrines of grace it contains. The Scriptures alone are the supreme authority in matters of faith and practice. The Free Presbyterian Church uses only the Authorized Version (KJV) of the Bible.

*Evangelical in Outreach*, in obedience to the great commission of Christ to "go ye into all the world and preach the Gospel". A virile program of Gospel preaching, missionary endeavour and radio ministry is actively pursued with the great objective of leading people of every class, colour and creed to an experimental knowledge of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord.

*Sanctified in Behaviour*, encouraging its members to lead godly lives in obedience to God’s Word, that will be testimonies of holiness and righteousness, in a world increasingly plagued by lowering moral values.

*Presbyterian in Government*, being ruled by elders and deacons chosen from the people, by the people, to serve the people. The Free Presbyterian Church stands for a born-again membership and the ministers, elders and deacons are men genuinely born-again by the Spirit of God, and dedicated to the extension of the Kingdom of Christ.

*Protestant in Conviction*, gladly taking its stand alongside the great Christian leaders of the Protestant Reformation. The twin pillars of Protestantism, namely a positive witness for Christ, and a protest against error, are cherished and defended.

*Separatist in Practice*, believing and practicing the doctrine of Biblical separatism. In accordance with this, the Free Presbyterian Church has no association with the modern Ecumenical or Charismatic movements, nor will it fellowship with any church which has departed from the fundamental doctrines of the Word of God. 

********
Make of that what you will. By the way, is the expression 'ruled by elders and deacons' a good one? Elders rule, deacons don't.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 22, 2009)

MAV said:


> With the multitude of presbyterian denominations in Scotland the last thing we need is another one. We are, however, a mission field.



Would seem wiser to work with an existing church in such places as Scotland, especially when there are sound groups there. England would be even more of a mission field. The Evangelical Presbyterian Church of England and Wales would be a good group to partner with there. Help them plant new churches, do evangelism, fill existing pulpits.


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## toddpedlar (Jun 22, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> LeeJUk said:
> 
> 
> > "I appreciate the passionate preaching of the Ulster Free Presbyterians; but, are they “Presbyterian”? " - Glenn
> ...



Whatever these are, we do know what their stance is on the identify of the AntiChrist


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## MrMerlin777 (Jun 22, 2009)




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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 22, 2009)

toddpedlar said:


> Whatever these are, we do know what their stance is on the identify of the AntiChrist



With which the WCF and I agree.


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## jambo (Jun 22, 2009)

LeeJUk said:


> you mean go live there? if i was to move to northern ireland i'd certainly go all out free-pres. though i dont know how my family would like that
> 
> i love they're preaching and they are very successful.
> they've also helped me through email and stuff and they're sermons are powerful.




The Free-Ps are usually powerful gospel preahers when they are preaching the gospel. Unfortunately they have poisoned the gospel by dressing it in a Union Jack.


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## Peairtach (Jun 22, 2009)

*Quote from Glenn Ferrell*
_The Free Church of Scotland Continuing would give the Disruption of 1843 as their beginning also. After all, they are "continuing."_

That's fine. I mean the split between the FCoS and FCoSC happened in 2000.

*Quote from Glenn Ferrell*
_I don't know if either the FCoS or the FCoSC would regard 1843 as a founding date, as they saw themselves as a continuation of the true CoS, without the Erastian intrusion of the civil government, or the unbelief of the so called “Moderate” wing of the CoS. _

That would mean both the FCoS and FCoSC were founded in 1560 when the CoS was founded.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Jun 22, 2009)

Richard Tallach said:


> That would mean both the FCoS and FCoSC were founded in 1560 when the CoS was founded.



How about 563 when Columba founded Iona and brought the gospel to the Picts. The Reformation in 1560 was the resurgence of the Celtic church previously assimilated by Rome.


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## LeeJUk (Jun 23, 2009)

Currently getting in contact with the ministry committee of the Free Church to find out more about the full time ministry there. I'm obviously not making any commitments for a while but could you pray for me ? 

thanks a lot, take care guys. its been great and thanks for all your support and prayers everyone who read this/replied.


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## Berean (Jun 23, 2009)

Praying for you, Lee


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## Peairtach (Jun 23, 2009)

*Quote from Glenn*
_How about 563 when Columba founded Iona and brought the gospel to the Picts. The Reformation in 1560 was the resurgence of the Celtic church previously assimilated by Rome. _

The Associated Presbyterian Churches have a church - the Kingsview Centre - on the hill in Inverness where Columba took the Gospel to King Brude and the Picts, Craig Phadric.


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## MAV (Jun 23, 2009)

Identity of the Antichrist is actually an open question with the FPCU as many are premillennial.


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