# The Christian Home and the Occult



## TylerRay (Feb 26, 2015)

How should books, stories, etc. that involve the occult be handled in the Christian home? I am not talking about books teaching witchcraft, etc. I am referring to literature in which the occult plays an integral part. This would include books that include witchcraft, mystical creatures, power over the elements, etc.

A few relevant examples would include:
The Lord of the Rings
The Chronicles of Narnia
Hans Christian Andersen
Pokemon
Harry Potter

Perhaps not all cases should be viewed in the same way; I'll grant that: but I'm struggling as a father, and as one who has enjoyed many of these things in the past, to know how to guide my family.

Any advice?


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## RamistThomist (Feb 26, 2015)

Lord of the Rings can be used to teach a Christian theology of Angels (think Peter Kreeft). It would require some prep and skill, though. Narnia is the same.

Harry Potter is tricky. I love the books and have seen all of the movies (except the last three) at least a million times each (because of Rifftrax). If a student or child is discerning, then I don't see a problem. 

Basil of Caesarea had an essay on using pagan sources. The Bee and the Honey. All of the church fathers referenced Homer's Iliad. Yet the actions of the gods and heroes in the Iliad is baseline depravity.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 26, 2015)

I'm one who loves the genres fantasy and sci fi, though have come to a place where – for the most part – I leave even them, as in this page from my forthcoming book:
*It’s Difficult Leaving Tolkien Behind*

An old friend and grand story-teller, he’s done so much to illumine the landscape of our recent centuries, showing psychic and spiritual realities on the ground by way of the mirage images he floated potent in the airy regions of our consciousness.

He has wondrously reflected great darkness, sturdy and steadfast heroic effort, faithful friendship and dire betrayals. But his stories cannot enter into our actual lives, taking on board the precious baggage of our personal realities, and the train of them takes off leaving us in a darkness – both within our souls and in our outer circumstances – bereft of aid or comfort, seeing as his characters do not know us or care for us personally (though they no doubt would were they real). Wonderful tales, inspiring, grand, even majestic and heart-rending, yet too distant from the actualities of our lives. 

In our armchairs we may appreciate and relish his tales – and I include like stories of high visionary adventure of others that follow in their train – but the days of trouble that come upon us shall be complex and confusing, seeing neither sure cause nor safe escape, but rather loved ones along with ourselves overcome and made desolate, even destroyed, terribly. Tolkien – and his fellows in fiction – can be no help here as all stories pale in the rising waters. All save one, that is, the Story beneath all stories, the Archetype of ruin and redemption, destruction and rescue, an *actual* savior from *actual* disaster and destroying catastrophe (and there shall be many such!). He has a name, a good and strong and true name. If you have read this far you know it; well known it is among those who look upon these words and call upon that name; hold fast to His word, knowing He shall sustain your soul (even though your body die) so that in the end not a single hair of your head shall perish. Upon this truth we place our trust and our eternal lives.

The just live by this faith – in this true Story, sealed with that blood that cries to God for mercy and eternal life; real stuff, this Jesus who loves us and carries the actual baggage of our days and hearts. What a Saviour, what a Shepherd! Better than Tolkien’s, for our Jesus the King walks with us in this valley of the shadow of death, and sustains us now and ever.​
With respect to Harry Potter, my view is not so high, as in this critique of it:

View attachment REFLECTIONS OF A FORMER OCCULTIST ON HARRY POTTER.doc


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## RamistThomist (Feb 26, 2015)

As for Harry Potter, if you reject it, it should probably be for well-thought out reasons and that your students/children see you rejecting it for good reasons.

As for as externals go, Harry Potter is magnificently written. The worst thing Christians can do is adopt the mentality of Bobby Boucher's mother and holler, "Foosball is the Debbil!" Because if it is the "Debbil," then the conclusion drawn is that the "Debbil" can writer better than 99.99% of Christians (JK Rowing is worth $900 million).


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## Jack K (Feb 26, 2015)

We don't read or watch Harry Potter for the very reason you mentioned. It celebrates witchcraft. I have a very low tolerance for anything that treats witchcraft as a good thing or as amusing and interesting for young readers/viewers. Sadly, there's a lot of this.

The Narnia and Lord of the Rings series have a better tone. They seem more like allegorical fantasy set in reimagined worlds. They don't suggest that _our_ world would be more fun if we dabbled in a little witchcraft.

As for movies and books that acknowledge witchcraft but treat it as the evil that it is; I have no problem with those.


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## joebonni63 (Feb 26, 2015)

Kids in a christian family always ask why can't I see it everyone else does and if you use the "if everyone jumped off a bridge speech" you will loose. Show them why? Everyone in your home is a cultist until other wise noted. Sounds bad I know but mothers have lots of excuses for not reading the Bible and it starts there. Actually when I preach to Cults of any kind (JW, Mormon, and New Age) I will always talk to the women of that cult because about 89% of them have no idea what they know about the religion they are involved and it's the same in your home. Trust me I know this to be fact................


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## Username3000 (Feb 26, 2015)

Jacob, I disagree with your last point. There is absolutely no way that this woman is a better writer that 99.99% of Christians. Her books are beloved by the heathen world, and that has brought her great fame and fortune. That alone does not mean she is a better writer. Is the author of Fifty Shades of Grey a superior writer then? That would be the only conclusion if success equals quality. I think that through the ages many Christian writers have shown themselves to be tremendous writers, despite a perceived lack of success.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 26, 2015)

Perhaps she is not as good a writer as Christians. But even Christians have long pointed out that Christian fiction (or Christian anything) has always been seen as a cheap rip off. Check out the Amish Romance series at Lifeway, for example. There probably are really good Christian fantasists today (I actually have a novel in the works), but they aren't spoken of in the same vein as Lewis and Tolkien (or even Flannery O'Connor)


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## Username3000 (Feb 26, 2015)

Yes I agree with you there. You'll have to change that!


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## Pergamum (Feb 26, 2015)

With all the other filth on the screen, it seems silly to worry overly much about Harry Potter. He's down a bit on the list of threats.


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## Philip (Feb 26, 2015)

TylerRay said:


> How should books, stories, etc. that involve the occult be handled in the Christian home? I am not talking about books teaching witchcraft, etc. I am referring to literature in which the occult plays an integral part. This would include books that include witchcraft, mystical creatures, power over the elements, etc.



What do we do with books that involve other sorts of sin? Should we let our kids read _Tom Sawyer_? The _Iliad_? _The Three Musketeers_?

Fantastical worlds certainly have a lot of power. Lewis and Tolkien intended their mythmaking to reflect the kinds of human longing which we all have and ultimately to point to the Gospel.

Tolkien's On Fairy-Stories proves enlightening:

_Fantasy can, of course, be carried to excess. It can be ill done. It can be put to evil uses. It may even delude the minds out of which it came. But of what human thing in this fallen world is that not true? Men have conceived not only of elves, but they have imagined gods, and worshipped them, even worshipped those most deformed by their authors' own evil. But they have made false gods out of other materials: their notions, their banners, their monies; even their sciences and their social and economic theories have demanded human sacrifice. Abusus non tollit usum. Fantasy remains a human right: we make in our measure and in our derivative mode, because we are made: and not only made, but made in the image and likeness of a Maker._


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## Free Christian (Feb 26, 2015)

So im watching a movie, say Narnia but in it is a Pan/Faun creature, an image (though fanciful and man made) that is worshiped by witches. But here the Pan is weird and cons a little girl into his home and is depicted as good. Huh!? He might be renamed but its a Pan or Faun alright! White Witches are often in these movies and books, huh a good Witch, good Sorcerers, what on earth is going on here. 
These books and movies contain occult, no ifs or buts and they can dress a devil in whatever colourful attire they like and transform him into some angel of light to our delight but its still what it is, occult. All these movie and books dress up evil as good and blur the lines. Isaiah 5 v 20.
I don't have children, but do know right from wrong and I would no sooner hand a child a copy of any of those than I would a Taipan.

Reactions: Amen 1


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## MichaelNZ (Feb 27, 2015)

I've read all the Harry Potter books and seen all the films, and I don't have a problem with it. The witchcraft described in Harry Potter is very different from occult witchcraft. However, if I had kids, I probably wouldn't let them read the books or see the films since they do contain real world elements of divination, such as tea leaf reading, palm reading and crystal ball reading.


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## aadebayo (Feb 27, 2015)

I personally will stay away from all these books. I have so many Puritan and reformed books on my bookshelf that I have not even began to read. These include the 16 volumes of John Owen's works. Also I will not want my money to go as royalties to the authors of these occultic books.

Reactions: Praying 1


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## TylerRay (Feb 27, 2015)

aadebayo said:


> I personally will stay away from all these books. I have so many Puritan and reformed books on my bookshelf that I have not even began to read. These include the 16 volumes of John Owen's works. Also I will not want my money to go as royalties to the authors of these occultic books.



John Owen makes for a poor bedtime story for a toddler.


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## TylerRay (Feb 27, 2015)

I'm really enjoying everyone's responses. I'm still undecided where to draw the line and why. 

For those who are wondering why it's a big deal, so long as discernment is used: I'm mainly talking about stories for children, not for myself. I read my daughter a bedtime story every night, and I plan on doing this for my children on into the future. I want good, hearty stories for my children, and they are hard to find. Most of the children's books out there are junk, and I prefer folk stories. The problem is that very many of the folk stories out there involve the occult (magic, trolls, etc.).

When my children graduate to reading on their own, I want to have a game plan for dealing with the popular literature out there like Harry Potter, as well as the high fantasy of Tolkien.

Thank you all for your help. Keep it coming!


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## RamistThomist (Feb 27, 2015)

Philip said:


> TylerRay said:
> 
> 
> > How should books, stories, etc. that involve the occult be handled in the Christian home? I am not talking about books teaching witchcraft, etc. I am referring to literature in which the occult plays an integral part. This would include books that include witchcraft, mystical creatures, power over the elements, etc.
> ...



Right. The Iliad has far more depravity than Harry Potter ever dreamed of. The Odyssey has adultery (though one could argue Odysseus needed to do it because of the plot, which further underscores my point). Tom Sawyer even says the n-word.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Feb 27, 2015)

TylerRay said:


> aadebayo said:
> 
> 
> > I personally will stay away from all these books. I have so many Puritan and reformed books on my bookshelf that I have not even began to read. These include the 16 volumes of John Owen's works. Also I will not want my money to go as royalties to the authors of these occultic books.
> ...


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## Reformed Covenanter (Feb 27, 2015)

I always find it intriguing that when these type of posts emerge that some people (not thinking of anyone in particular) always say something along these lines: "Why read that fantasy stuff when there are so many Puritans to read?" Now, I will lay my cards on the table: I am not a big fiction reader, and do not really like reading fiction. I, personally, would probably prefer to have John Owen as my bedtime reading than any work of fiction. However, I do not see why I should impose this personal preference upon others or look down on those who enjoy reading other, lighter forms of literature. Besides, let us be realistic, people cannot spend all their time reading heavy tomes of theology and occasionally need to read something a bit easier on the brain. I mean, c'mon, not even Jacob reads philosophical monographs 24/7.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 27, 2015)

Part of the problem is, do we want to insulate our children from the real world by reading them only the "wholesome" and "innocent" stories where no evil intrudes? I remember my grandmother reading various fairy tales to me when I was a child; they were decent yet the deceits and violence of wickedness were present, as well as the activities of heroes and heroines.

For our _present_ age, with its moral complexities, violence, and increasing occultism, I think it good our children be aware of these things with age-appropriate materials. If reading to them things like Tolkien, either the _Hobbit_, or the trilogy, pains must be taken to instruct them as to what things have correspondence in reality and what not. Although Tolkien (I prefer him _far_ above Lewis) is not strictly allegorical I would say his visions are metaphors of things real. There _are_ wizards and occultists, and there _are_ demonic creatures seeking to overrun humankind, and one day will (in the final throes of Rev 20:3,7-9, on any reading of it), which precipitates the rescue of us and the glory of God revealed. 

All that to say, I would not want my children/grandchildren living in the fantasy world of a Pollyanna no-evil fool's paradise, but introducing them to things real takes wisdom and care.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 27, 2015)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I mean, c'mon, not even Jacob reads philosophical monographs 24/7.



Well, actually...


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## Miss Marple (Feb 27, 2015)

I think the larger question is, is fiction in any form acceptable? 

Under what circumstances?

We've taken the tack of drawing a strong line between fiction and non-fiction.

We teach what metaphors, similies and types are. 

For example, no question, Gandalf is a wizard/witch, witchcraft is a sin. However, in LOTR, which is a work of fiction, he is a Christ figure, in that he has great wisdom, sacrifices himself for his people, and does miracles/has supernatural powers. 

The above may be rationalization of enjoying sin; some may see it so. Our alternative, as I see it, is basically to avoid any fiction that does not follow a rote, Dick and Jane formula non-story formula; which in my opinion is just not fiction at all. Of course if that is what God requires that is what we must do.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 27, 2015)

Hello, Miss M.,

I see in your profile you read fiction., so perhaps your question is rhetorical? Are Biblical parables fiction? Or metaphorical?

About Gandalf, his status as a wizard in _LOTR_ is not what the Bible classifies as a wizard or witch, but is unique to this particular story, which really is a tale reflecting a Christian worldview (can one say that about a Roman Catholic author? I think so in this case).

Is fiction in any form acceptable, you ask? (I think we have had this discussion here at PB some years ago.) How about Dostoevsky's novels? Or Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's work? Is _Pilgrim's Progress_ a fiction? Or an allegory?

At any rate, I can partake of fictional works if I choose, and I do not believe I transgress the law of God. Though, in these days we are in, it is fairly rare I so indulge, seeing as I am so busy otherwise, and I do not like to cloud my mind with fantasy when reality is so scarce as to be at a premium. Still, I like a good story upon occasion—and I also reserve to myself the right to observe what stories are being told (whether in print or on screen) in the culture if I think they have significance of some sort. Though I am extremely careful what I allow into my mind and heart.

One of the pieces in my book is titled, "Fiction Slayer", about a tearer down of the false and that which lures souls away from _*the*_ Story—the archetypal Story beneath all stories—the real story of the world. Some folks, even Christians, seem to prefer fantasy over reality, which is odd.


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## Miss Marple (Feb 27, 2015)

Yes, my question is rhetorical, inasmuch as I put it forward for thought/discussion. I read a lot of fiction. 

Reality in this world is sometimes very ugly, and fiction is often a pleasant means of escape.


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## Free Christian (Feb 28, 2015)

They are Trojan horses for impressionable minds.


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## Philip (Feb 28, 2015)

Free Christian said:


> They are Trojan horses for impressionable minds.



The Trojan Horse comes, I believe, from a pagan myth as well.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2015)

Philip said:


> Free Christian said:
> 
> 
> > They are Trojan horses for impressionable minds.
> ...



And this illustrates the problem: the classical pagan mindset has so formed our thought structures that we aren't even aware of it. Harry Potter kind of pales in comparsion.


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## Miss Marple (Feb 28, 2015)

I find the metaphor of the Trojan Horse to be a helpful metaphor, and worth pondering. So our familiarity with the concept/story is helping the discussion. Should we have avoided learning the story of the Trojan Horse, or other mythology? Was it sin to read it? Is it sin to think about it, to use it in conversation?


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## py3ak (Feb 28, 2015)

ReformedReidian said:


> Philip said:
> 
> 
> > Free Christian said:
> ...



The answer to the problematic part of that, ironically, is more explicit familiarity with the classical pagan mindset.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 28, 2015)

Good point, Ruben. Having a broad perspective of literature—from ancient classics to various contemporary genres—allows one a wide choice of literary allusions and metaphors in one's own writing and speaking, and for understanding that of others. I believe the proverb, "...the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just" (Prov 13:22b), pertains not merely to money or jewels etc, but to intellectual and artistic property as well, which includes artistic _technique_ as well as finished work.

Miss M.'s remark about the usefulness of the Trojan Horse metaphor is a great example.

From the perspective I suggest, Harry Potter can be seen as a Trojan Horse of sorts bringing occult activity to the young in a bright and shiny package which they delight to open, and possibly emulate. Being familiar with Homer and his pagan mythos is no impediment to the godly if he is aware of his sources.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Mar 2, 2015)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> I believe the proverb, "...the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just" (Prov 13:22b), pertains not merely to money or jewels etc, but to intellectual and artistic property as well, which includes artistic technique as well as finished work.



That is a most interesting observation on that text, Steve.


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