# Puritan Commentaries on Revelation



## bookslover (Jun 18, 2011)

A quotation:

_It is a little-known fact that the Puritans...produced far more commentaries on Revelation than on any other book, most of them eminently forgettable and, mercifully, forgotten._

_New Testament Commentary Survey_ by D. A. Carson; 6th edition (Grand Rapids: Baker Academic, 2007), p. 145.

Comments?


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 18, 2011)

I do not think that DA likes the post-mellenialism of the Puritan commentators. 

Interestingly, The Dutch Reformed Translation Society refuses to translate Wilhelmus a'Brakel's commentary on Revelation because of his historicism and post-melennialism.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 18, 2011)

That is quite sad Rev. Eshelman.


Bartel Elshout has an editorial footnote more than once in his translation of CRS noting A' Brakel's post-millennialism.


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## JohnGill (Jun 18, 2011)

*CTSA course*



bookslover said:


> A quotation:
> 
> _It is a little-known fact that the Puritans...produced far more commentaries on Revelation than on any other book, most of them eminently forgettable and, mercifully, forgotten._
> 
> ...



It demonstrates his unargued bias against the Puritan view of eschatology. The DIA introductory course on Critical Thinking & Structured Analysis would help. As would general training in argument analysis. Arbitrariness is not an argument against any position. If he wishes to produce a commentary and then comment on their position, it is his duty to accurately represent their position and not mock it. It is also his duty to separate his opinion from an accurate analysis. If my analysis of terrorist group 'A' at work was little more than, "they're whackadoodles", the commander would find such an assessment to be of little worth to his decision making and would ask for a replacement. I hope that quote is not his entire treatment of their position. If it is, I'd ask for a replacement to his book. If he's arbitrary there, where else is he arbitrary? Such statements call into question the entirety of his survey.


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## greenbaggins (Jun 18, 2011)

JohnGill said:


> bookslover said:
> 
> 
> > A quotation:
> ...



Pardon me for intruding, but aren't you doing to Carson what he's doing to the Puritans? I understand your caveat "if." Nevertheless, Carson is one of the most well-respected authorities on NT commentaries. I have found his judgment to be sound in most cases. He may not like Puritan commentaries on Revelation. But that does not call into question the rest of his survey.


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## JohnGill (Jun 18, 2011)

greenbaggins said:


> Pardon me for intruding, but aren't you doing to Carson what he's doing to the Puritans? I understand your caveat "if." Nevertheless, Carson is one of the most well-respected authorities on NT commentaries. I have found his judgment to be sound in most cases. He may not like Puritan commentaries on Revelation. But that does not call into question the rest of his survey.



Perhaps I'm seeing this through the lens of my job. In my field, personal bias can cause the death of the consumer of your assessment. If my assessment is biased at point 'a', my consumers don't have the time to verify every other point. They need an assessment that, as much as possible, is free from personal bias. Otherwise my assessment, though it may contain useful information, is useless to the consumer. So if I come across too stringent on this issue, I apologize.

With regards to your comment "_Carson is one of the most well-respected authorities on NT commentaries"_, for that reason alone he should not have made the statement in the OP. His book is being bought by pastors, seminarians, and theology students. They are trusting him to accurately evaluate and portray what is contained in the commentaries. Because of that trust, his personal biases have no place. 

To answer your question, in short, no. For the sake of argument let's assume that his entire covering of the Puritan commentaries on Revelation is the quote in the OP. Such a statement is nothing but bias. Bias offered as an "argument" against a position does not deal with the position. It merely attempts to discredit the position based upon the "authority" of the one engaging in the bias. If, when he disagrees with this certain position all he offers is his own personal bias, then as a diligent reader you must ask the question, Where else is he being arbitrary? And that does call into question the entire survey. If he refuses to remove his bias from dealing with case 'A' with which he disagrees, how do I know he has removed his personal bias from dealing with case 'B' with which he agrees? Now instead of being able to trust in the accurate portrayal of each commentary within his assessment, I must now track down the veracity and accuracy of each and very statement. This defeats the purpose of his survey.

However, assuming he offers more than the quote in the OP. The book is ostensibly to be a help to pastors, seminarians, and theology students for picking useful tools to help them in their studies. Such a help should be free from one's own personal bias with regards to eschatology and other such issues of Christian liberty. (This can be done by the author simply stating that, While I do not personally hold to this view of 'x', those of you who do may find it quite useful because of the following or may not find it useful because of the following. Or something similar.) If he wishes to make a case against Puritan eschatology, he can write a book attempting to refute it. If he wishes to not include commentaries with positions with which he disagrees, he should be up front about that at the beginning. Otherwise his bias clouds the usefulness of his book. 

My own personal bias with regards to Carson's book that I do own. Love it! Exegetical Fallacies. My only complaints were with style and presentation order of some of the fallacies. But that's due to being trained to see fallacies ordered in a certain way for my job.


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## py3ak (Jun 18, 2011)

I have read that Joseph Mede assigned 1736 as the year for the end of popery, whereas Goodwin picked the time period between 1650-1700. Is it not more probable that Dr. Carson thinks that things of that nature would be best forgotten? Obviously there is more to Puritan commentaries on Revelation than that sort of thing, and it would be a pity if Durham's commentary were not available - but if there is a lot of date setting and mathematical calculation in Puritan commentaries on Revelation, then it seems to me that Carson could well be right in this specific instance.


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## greenbaggins (Jun 18, 2011)

Okay, Chris, but how does one avoid bias? I'm sure I do not know. I am terribly biased in my recommendations of commentaries. And my recommendations are not going to be the same as other people's recommendations. For instance, with regard to Puritan commentaries on Revelation, although I have not read much in the field, my impression of them is that they tend to historicize the details of Revelation with regard to what is happening in their own time. My understanding of Revelation is closer to Beale and Poythress, and their idealist interpretation (namely, that John is describing the entire inter-adventual period, such that there _is_ contemporary application, but that is not the _only_ application through history). So, although I deeply respect the Puritans in almost everything about them, I do not feel that they have plumbed the depths of Revelation properly. As a result, I am biased. Furthermore, almost everything else in Carson's book on commentaries is something I resonate with. I refuse to judge his book on the basis of what he says about the Puritans, firstly because I have some sympathy for why he would say that, and secondly, I have read the rest of his volume _many_ times.


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## bookslover (Jun 18, 2011)

JohnGill said:


> For the sake of argument let's assume that his entire covering of the Puritan commentaries on Revelation is the quote in the OP.



For the record: yes, that is the entirety of what Carson has to say about Puritan commentaries in his book. He does add, however, as his very next sentence: _Something similar could be said about most periods of church history, including our own._


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## JohnGill (Jun 19, 2011)

*Restraining bias*



greenbaggins said:


> Okay, Chris, but how does one avoid bias? I'm sure I do not know. I am terribly biased in my recommendations of commentaries. And my recommendations are not going to be the same as other people's recommendations. For instance, with regard to Puritan commentaries on Revelation, although I have not read much in the field, my impression of them is that they tend to historicize the details of Revelation with regard to what is happening in their own time. My understanding of Revelation is closer to Beale and Poythress, and their idealist interpretation (namely, that John is describing the entire inter-adventual period, such that there _is_ contemporary application, but that is not the _only_ application through history). So, although I deeply respect the Puritans in almost everything about them, I do not feel that they have plumbed the depths of Revelation properly. As a result, I am biased. Furthermore, almost everything else in Carson's book on commentaries is something I resonate with. I refuse to judge his book on the basis of what he says about the Puritans, firstly because I have some sympathy for why he would say that, and secondly, I have read the rest of his volume _many_ times.



First, acknowledge that you have bias. As I stressed above, you should remove it as much as possible. You can never fully remove bias. Of course such a statement may itself be subject to bias. Second, in your presentation of material that you are biased against, you must strive to present it as if you were heavily biased for the material. I say "heavily biased" because if you are biased against the material, your natural bias will counteract your efforts to act as if you were biased for it. Generally this leaves your estimate of the material a few ticks on the positive side of zero. When I was disputing with a pre-tribulationist, I referenced Pentecost, Ryrie, Ice, and Walvoord, but not Scofield as many modern pre-trib writers do not subscribe to his views. And I ensured I accurately reflected their premises and conclusions. I did this by memorizing them. Or to use a work example I present the following. Let's say we're doing flight planning for heavy air assets such as cargo planes and tankers. The country they will be overflying, call it Laboria, has Surface to Air Missile (SAM) systems capable of taking out our aircraft. But from the intel we collected on their training 5 years ago, we assess they have only a few of their various SAMs up and running. And those that are running, their people are so poorly trained and funded that they have never fired a single SAM and don't know what to do if there is a mis-fire. You're the intel analyst preparing the brief for your pilots. You know Laboria's current Order of Battle shows 5 SA-5 SAMs. It's unknown whether or not they work. You've studied Laboria firing doctrine and you find them laughable at best. The last time they attempted to fire a SAM, they blew up one of their own government buildings. (This is why they no longer do live fires.) So how do you brief your pilots? Do you make a comment about how you're glad they no longer fire SAM systems? Or do you brief the SA-5 to your pilots, stressing the visual cues, radar spikes signatures, threat rings, and every other aspect of the system, and encourage your pilots to fly around those SA-5s? If you allow your bias about Laboria's firing os SAMs to cloud your assessment, it will affect how you present your information. This will cause your assessment to be of less value, than had you taken the opposite approach of portraying Laboria's capabilities in the best possible light. Of course, thankfully in Commentaries Surveys you don't worry about the magic bullet effect.

But in your own comment of being biased about various commentaries, your awareness of your bias will allow you to restrain it in your personal recommendations of commentaries. Or at the very least allow you to say, I don't recommend this one because I disagree with them on 'x', but if you are of that persuasion, then I would recommend it. Also, your statement, "I do not feel that they have plumbed the depths of Revelation properly", is quite a different thing than Carson's. It admits your bias in way that leaves it up to the reader to decide. 

Though I suppose all of this is moot, if at the outset Carson makes a statement to the effect, "these are my personal recommendations", and doesn't set himself up as the arbiter of good and bad commentaries. If he did make such a statement, then my response to the OP would be, ok he's entitled to his opinion. And with the updated quote, my response would be: he's right overall.

Video of the SA-5:

YouTube - ‪S-200 Angara/Vega/Dubna (SA-5 GAMMON)‬&rlm;


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## elnwood (Jun 19, 2011)

I own and read Carson's book on commentaries _because_ I am interested in Carson's scholarly opinion and biases on commentaries. As far as I know, Carson doesn't generally have a bias against the Puritans, and almost without a doubt he's read more Puritan commentaries on Revelation than any of us have.

If we dismiss Carson because we're favorably disposed towards the Puritans, I'm not sure what makes us any different.


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## Peairtach (Jun 19, 2011)

I've never read any Puritan commentaries on Revelation, but even if one disagreed with their historicism and postmillennialism (or premillennialism), I'm sure they will be full of nuggets and seams of gold.


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## Fly Caster (Jun 19, 2011)

bookslover said:


> A quotation:
> 
> _It is a little-known fact that the Puritans...produced far more commentaries on Revelation than on any other book, most of them eminently forgettable and, mercifully, forgotten._
> 
> ...



I love my Durham Commentary and consider it a great mercy that it wasn't forgotten.


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## Scott1 (Jun 19, 2011)

It's interesting, one of the few books the greatest theologian Mr. Calvin did _not_ write a commentary on was The Revelation (of Jesus Christ to St. John the Divine).


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## Rufus (Jun 19, 2011)

Scott1 said:


> It's interesting, one of the few books the greatest theologian Mr. Calvin did _not_ write a commentary on was The Revelation (of Jesus Christ to St. John the Divine).



, I couldn't find one back when I wanted to known Calvin's eschatology.


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## elnwood (Jun 19, 2011)

Spurgeon's commentary recommendations usually include lots of Puritans. I looked over at his Revelation commentary recommendations, and he also had similar thoughts on the quality of Revelation commentaries:


> The works upon REVELATION are so extremely numerous (Darling's list contains 52 columns), and the views entertained are so many, so different, and so speculative, that after completing our List we resolved not to occupy our space with it, but merely to mention a few works of repute.



No Puritan received his highest recommendation. William Cowper, James Durham and Joseph Mede rated "good, but more ordinary," and Thomas Brightman rated "least desirable."

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:29 PM ----------

Derek Thomas also includes Puritan commentary recommendations in _The Essential Commentaries for a Preacher's Library_, but he has none in Revelation.

Joel Beeke's commentary recommendations on Revelation include James Durham at the #3 spot.
Dr. Beeke


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## Wayne (Jun 19, 2011)

Puritan (and other) _*sermons*_ on the Book of Revelation:

1:5-6
Manton, Thomas, Works, xix.80

Spurgeon, C.H., "John's First Doxology," #1737, MTP 29.469-480.

Spurgeon, C.H., "Loved and Laved," #2230, MTP 37.577-588.

1:5
M'Crie, Thomas, "The Love of Christ," Sermons, pp. 146-165. 

Witherspoon, John, "The Love of Christ in Redemption," Works, ii.79-96.

1:7
Spurgeon, C.H., "He Cometh With Clouds," #1989, MTP 33.589-600.

1:12-17
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Christ of Patmos," #357, MTP 7.73-80.

1:17-18
Boston, Thomas, "Infallible Antidotes Against Unbelieving Fears," Works, ix.13-27.

1:16
Spurgeon, C.H., "Lessons from the Christ of Patmos," #1976, MTP 33.433-444.

1:17
Spurgeon, C.H., "Fear Not," #1533, MTP 26.229-240.

1:18
Howe, John, A Discourse Concerning the Redeemer's Dominion over the Invisible World, and The Entrance thereunto by Death, Works iii.1-68.

2:2-3
Welsh, John, Sermon One, of "Eight Sermons on Repentance", Naphtali Press Anthology, vol. 1, no. 3, Summer 1988, pp 33-37.

2:4-5
Alexander, Archibald, "Returning to Our First Love," Practical Sermons, pp. 372-390.

Baynes, Paul, "A Caveat for Cold Christians," Naphtali Press Anthology, vol. 4, (1991), pp 199-206.

Griffin, Edward D., "Forsaken the First Love," Life and Sermons, ii.351-364.

Spurgeon, C.H., "Love's Complaining," #1926, MTP 32.577-588.

2:5
Case, Thomas, untitled, Farewell Sermons, pp. 43-60.

Charnock, Stephen, "A Discourse on the Removal of the Gospel," Tait Collection, CTS.

Welsh, John, Sermons Two through Eight, of "Eight Sermons on Repentance", Naphtali Press Anthology, vol. 1, no. 3, Summer 1988, pp 37-55.

2:12-13
Spurgeon, C.H., "Holding Fast the Faith," #2007, MTP 34.73-84.

2:17
Griffin, Edward D., "Manna," Life and Sermons, ii.379-391.

3:2
Boston, Thomas, "The Evidences and Causes of the Decay of Religion in the Soul Discovered, and the Method of its Cure Prescribed," (in two sermons), Works, vii.636-650.

Manton, Thomas, Works, v.415

3:3
Newcomen, Matthew, untitled, Farewell Sermons, pp. 272-294.

Whitlock, John, “Remember, Hold Fast and Repent,” Sermons of the Great Ejection, pp. 177-198.

3:4
Renwick, James, untitled, Prefaces, Lectures and Sermons, pp. 440-452.

3:4b
Caryl, Joseph, untitled, Farewell Sermons, pp. 29-42.

3:8,10
Spurgeon, C.H., "Commendation for the Steadfast," #1814, MTP 30.673-684.

3:14-21
Spurgeon, C.H., "An Earnest Warning Against Lukewarmness," #1185, MTP 20.421-432.

3:17-18
Flavel, John, "The Touchstone of Sincerity, or, the Signs of Grace, and Symptoms of Hypocrisy," Works, v.509-604.

Spurgeon, C.H., "A Great Mistake and the Way to Rectify It," #1677, MTP 28.481-492.

3:17
Witherspoon, John, "Man in his Natural State," Works, iii.139-147. 

Witherspoon, John, "An Inducement to Come to Christ," Works, iii.149-156.

3:19
Ward, Samuel, "A Coal from the Altar to Kindle the Holy Fire of Zeal," Sermons and Treatises, pp. 69-91.

3:20
Clarkson, David, "Christ's Gracious Invitation to Sinners," Works, ii.34-100.

Flavel, John, England's Duty Under the Present Gospel Liberty, Works, iv.3-268.

Nettleton, Asahel, "Christ Standing at the Door," Sermons, pp. 377-382.

Palmer, Benjamin Morgan, "Communion with God, alone perfect," Sermons, I, 257-269. [pagination misnumbered]

4:1-11:15
Goodwin, Thomas, An Exposition of the Revelation, Works, iii.1-205.

Together with "A Brief History Out of the Book of the Revelation," (iii.207-218) and "A Discourse of Christ's Reward," (iii.219-226 - see entry at Rev. 5:12).

4:4,10-11
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Elders Before the Throne," #441, MTP 8.169-180.

4:6
Adams, Thomas, "The Spiritual Navigator Bound for the Holy Land," Works, iii.38-62.

4:8
Whyte, Alexander, "Imagination in Prayer," Lord, Teach Us to Pray, pp. 241-255.

4:10
Spurgeon, C.H., "Royal Homage," #1102, MTP 19.157-168.

5:5-6
Edwards, Jonathan, "The Excellency of Christ," ? . Sermon Outlines p 160ff

5:6-7
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Lamb in Glory," #2095, MTP 35.385-396.

5:6
Griffin, Edward D., "The Lamb in the Midst of His Father's Throne," Life and Sermons, ii.467-480.

5:8-10
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Heavenly Singers and their Song," #2321, MTP 39.385-393.

5:9-10
Spurgeon, C.H., "Jesus, the Delight of Heaven," #1225, MTP 21.172-180.

5:9
Newton, John, "The Song of the Redeemed," Works, iv.539-556. (Sermon 48 in his series on the texts of Handel's Messiah).

5:12
Goodwin, Thomas, "A Discourse of Christ's Reward; or, Of the Glory Which He Receives in Heaven, As Due to the Excellency of His Person, and as the Recompense of His Work of Redemption Performed,"

Works, iii.219-226.

Newton, John, "The Chorus of Angels," Works, iv.556-569. (Sermon 49 in his series on the texts of Handel's Messiah).

5:13
Newton, John, "The Universal Chorus," Works, iv.569-583.

6:7-8
Ward, Samuel, "The Life of Faith in Death: The First Sermon," Sermons and Treatises, pp. 52-61 (see also 6:9).

6:9-11
Flavel, John, "The Soul: its Immortality proved by Eight Arguments, and Objections against it answered," Pneumatologia, Works, ii.555-559.

6:9
Ward, Samuel, "The Life of Faith in Death: The Second Sermon," Sermons and Treatises, pp. 61-68 (see also 6:7-8).

6:16
Adams, Thomas, "Presumption Running Into Despair," Works, iii.63-73.

7:14
Spurgeon, C.H., "Why the Heavenly Robes are White," #1316, MTP 22.541-552.

7:15
Witherspoon, John, "The Happiness of the Saints in Heaven," Works, ii.255-271. 

7:16-17
Spurgeon, C.H., "Heaven Below," #1800, MTP 30.505-516.

Spurgeon, C.H., "Heaven Above, and Heaven Below," together with the text of Isa 49:10, #2128, MTP 36.73-84.

10:6-7
Boston, Thomas, "The End of Time, and the Mystery of God Finished with It," Works, x.423-464.

11:12
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Voice From Heaven," #488, MTP 9.13-24.

11:15
Newton, John, "The Extent of Messiah's Spiritual Kingdom," Works, iv.411-424. (Sermon 37 in his series on the texts of Handel's Messiah).

11:19
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Ark of His Covenant," #2427, MTP 41.397-405.

12:1
Renwick, James, untitled, Prefaces, Lectures and Sermons, pp. 557-569.

12:11
Spurgeon, C.H., "How They Conquered the Dragon," #1237, MTP 21.313-324.

Spurgeon, C.H., "The Blood of the Lamb, the Conquering Weapon," #2043, MTP 34.505-516.

12:12
Spurgeon, C.H., "Satan in a Rage," #1502, MTP 25.613-624.

14:4-5
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Followers of the Lamb," #2324, MTP 39.421-429.

14:12-13
Spurgeon, C.H., "A Voice from Heaven," #1219, MTP 21.109-120.

14:13
Manton, Thomas, "The Blessed Estate of Them That Die In the Lord, opened in a Sermon at the Funeral of Mistress Jane Blackwell, Wife of Master Elidad Blackwell, Pastor of Andrews Undershaft, London," Works, ii.457-475. Includes the attachment, "The Character of Mrs. Jane Blackwell."

16:9
Spurgeon, C.H., "Judgments and No Repentance: Repentance and No Salvation," #2054,

MTP 34.637-648.

16:15
Sibbes, Richard, "The Coming of Christ," Works, vii.306-315.

17:17
Sibbes, Richard, "The Beast's Dominion Over Earthly Kings," Works, vii.517-534.

19:3
M'Cheyne, Robert Murray, "The Eternal Torment of the Wicked Matter of Eternal Song to the Redeemed," A Basket of Fragments, pp. 162-167.

19:6
Goodwin, Thomas, "A Glimpse of Zion's Glory; or, The Church's Beauty Specified," Works, xii.61-79.

Newton, John, "The Lord Reigneth," Works, iv.400-410. (Sermon 36 in his series on the texts of Handel's Messiah).

19:7-8
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Marriage of the Lamb," #2096, MTp 35.397-408.

19:9
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Marriage Supper of the Lamb," #2428, MTP 41.409-418.

19:11-14
Rutherford, Samuel, Fourteen Communion Sermons, pp. 7-26.

19:11-22:21
Bale, John, Extracts from The Image of Both Churches, pp. 409-440 of vol. 12, The British Reformers.

19:12
M'Cheyne, Robert Murray, "The Mighty Conqueror," A Basket of Fragments, pp. 121-127.

19:16
Newton, John, "King of Kings, and Lord of Lords," Works, iv.425-434. (Sermon 38 in his series on the texts of Handel's Messiah).

20:4-6 and 20:12
Spurgeon, C.H., "The First Resurrection," #391, MTP 7.345-362.

20:11-12
Hamilton, Thomas, untitled, Biographical Sketches and Sermons of Some of the First Ministers of the Associate Church in America, by James P. Miller (Albany, NY: Hoffman and White, 1839), pp. 299-312. [Available in the PCA Historical Center]

20:12
Nettleton, Asahel, "The Wicked Stand Before the Judgment Seat," Sermons, pp. 220-225.

21:4-7
Rutherford, Samuel, "Christ's Napkin," Fourteen Communion Sermons, pp. 223-247. At Communion in Kirkcudbright, May 12, 1633. Ed. note: "This title was, no doubt, given by the friend who took down the notes; for Rutherford was not in the way of putting titles to his sermons."

21:5
Spurgeon, C.H., "Sermon for New Year's-Day," #1816, MTP 31.1-12.

21:6
Spurgeon, C.H., "Good News for Thirsty Souls," #1549, MTP 26.409-420.

21:9
Duncan, John, "The Bride, the Lamb's Wife," Pulpit and Communion Table, pp. 233-243.

21:23
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Lamb--The Light," #583, MTP 10.437-448.

21:27
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Barrier," #1590, MTP 27.169-180.

22:2
Spurgeon, C.H., "Healing Leaves," #1233, MTP 21.265-276.

22:3
Spurgeon, C.H., "The Throne of God and of the Lamb," #1576, MTP 27.13-24.

22:11
Chalmers, Thomas, "Heaven a Character and Not a Locality," Sermons and Discourses, i.362-368.

22:13
Spurgeon, C.H., "Alpha and Omega," #546, MTP 9.709-720.

22:14
Adams, Thomas, "Heaven-Gate; or, The Passage to Paradise," Works, iii.74-84.

22:17
Sibbes, Richard, "The Church's Echo," Works, vii.535-546.

Spurgeon, C.H., "God's Will and Man's Will," #442, MTP 8.181-192 (together with the text of Romans 9:16).

Spurgeon, C.H., "The Two 'Comes'," #1331, MTP 23.1-12

Spurgeon, C.H., "The Double 'Come'," #1608, MTP 27.389-400.

22:20-21
Bonar, Horatius, "The Church's Amen," 52 Sermons, pp. 456-464.

22:20
Sibbes, Richard, "The Bridegroom's Promises, and The Bride's Prayer," Works, vi.535-560.

22:21
Spurgeon, C.H., "Till We Meet Again," #1628, MTP 27.629-636.


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## ADKing (Jun 20, 2011)

Thanks, Wayne! That's great!


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## KMK (Jun 20, 2011)

Where did you get that, Wayne?


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## bookslover (Jun 21, 2011)

I also have enjoyed this remark Carson makes about a particular commentary on Revelation: _Josephine Massyngberde Ford [her volume in the Anchor Bible series, published in 1975] is entertaining primarily because it is eccentric. John the Baptist, we are told, was responsible for most of Revelation - but perhaps that is not too surprising from a scholar who has argued that the Blessed Virgin penned Hebrews._ (p. 147)

ROFL

(By the way: Ford, born in 1928, retired from Notre Dame in 2001 after teaching New Testament there for 36 years. She was the first permanent female faculty member to be hired there, I believe [1965] and the first woman to receive tenure [1968]. Too bad her scholarship is so...well...lacking.)


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## MW (Jun 21, 2011)

Suppose you are travelling in unknown territory and you ask someone for directions to a specific location. He doesn't know exactly where your destination is but he can point you in the right direction. You follow his directions and a little further down the road you come across a sign-post which points you directly to the place you want to go. Surely you are thankful for the original directions even though they did not point you precisely to your destination. Likewise, "historicist" commentaries on Revelation were (1) part of the road on which the history of interpretation was bound to walk in order to come to a point where something more specific was needed, and (2) are still very helpful for showing historical examples to which the idealist interpretation can find application. They at least provide a "providential outlook" on history from a biblical perspective -- something sadly lacking in the modern day.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 21, 2011)

KMK said:


> Where did you get that, Wayne?



Ahh... someone is about to discover the great joys of Wayne's work... the PCA History site.... gotta love it.


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## Rufus (Jun 21, 2011)

> I also have enjoyed this remark Carson makes about a particular commentary on Revelation: Josephine Massyngberde Ford [her volume in the Anchor Bible series, published in 1975] is entertaining primarily because it is eccentric. John the Baptist, we are told, was responsible for most of Revelation - but perhaps that is not too surprising from a scholar who has argued that the Blessed Virgin penned Hebrews. (p. 147)



Seeing as John the Baptist died before Jesus was crucified....I doubt it.


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## KMK (Jun 22, 2011)

nleshelman said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you get that, Wayne?
> ...



Oohhhh... Why haven't I seen this sooner? Does the OPC have anything similar?


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