# Is Calvary Chapel Cultic?



## Blue Tick

Do you think Calvary Chapel is cultic? 

I ask this because I attended Calvary for a long time and was on staff at two different Calvary churches and observed cultic behavior. From the complete lack of any pastoral accountability, sophomoric teaching, and Chuck Smith worship it's definitely fertile for serious kool aid drinkers! 

When my wife and I were asked to leave (actually escorted out of the building) because I was truthful as to why we were leaving, the staff was informed not to talk to us. 

I just get angry sometimes at their anti-calvinist diatribes. I have many friends who no longer talk to us because we are reformed. The thing is they don't know anything about being reformed or what it means to be a calvinist.
The leaders in Calvary manipulate the laity into thinking calvinism is synonymous with the boogey man.

Boo! Here's Johnny Calvinist! 


Any thoughts or experience with Calvary please share. It will be quite cathartic for me.

Thank Him for His Mercy!

John


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## Pergamum

WHat were the circumstances of your being asked to leave?


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## Scott Bushey

Add to my list from the other thred:
1) Rebaptizers (making them true anabaptists)
2) Not disqualifying leadership that has been caught in grievous sin, i.e adultery.
3) Leadership essentially ordain themselves.

Chuck Smith is Pope!


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## bill c.

I attended the local CC and never once heard the pastor speak about Calvinism pro or con. He did quote from Calvin a few times nothing negative though. Maybe it varies depending on the pastor. I was kind of uneasy about the issue of who the pastor was accountable to. I had heard that CC pastors were supposed to denigrate other churches but never heard this instead heard the pastor speak very well of other churches. The bookstore at CC had a lot of books by Reformed authors like Pink, Watson, Lloyd-Jones, Boice, etc. and they sold very well.

I did attend one of the home fellowships where I felt things were a little cult-like.


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## ReformedWretch

Most CC pastors will call themselves 4 pointers or Calminians (ugh). I came out of a CC church before getting into my current one and while I wouldn't call them "cultic" I would say they are cult like. Their ignornace is to blame. Many of them are "seeker sensitive" which only ads to their problems.

Everything Scott said is true!

1) Rebaptizers (making them true anabaptists)

Absolutely!

2) Not disqualifying leadership that has been caught in grievous sin, i.e adultery.

I've seen this!

3) Leadership essentially ordain themselves.

I was at an ordaination and it was creepy!



> Chuck Smith is Pope!



While many make this into a joke, it is very, very true.


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## R. Scott Clark

Out here they tend to be very hostile to the doctrines of grace. They've gone after us (Oceanside URC) hammer and tong. Ask Pastor Hyde about his experience or the experiences of some of our members. They do resemble those groups envisioned by the Belgic Confession Art 29 denominated "sects" that appropriate to themselves the name "church." 

They certainly _appear_ to have some of the qualifications of a cult as defined by the sociologists: 

Can one criticize the leadership without repercussion? No. 

Do they claim secret knowledge? Sometimes. 

Do they have open leadership? No. 

Do they have open finances? ??? (a short aside, when we began our congregation as a church plant we had no officers and I had to help with the offering. I asked one of the young men, ex-CC, to help me count and be accountable. He was shocked. He said, "In CC, this was very secret." 

When we discipline people we outline the _appeal_ process for them in case we've erred. Somehow I guess that doesn't happen in CC.

rsc


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## Cheshire Cat

Within CC there can be some significant differences between churches, depending on size, location, pastors, etc. No, CC is not a cult. In that case you may as well just label many non-denominational churches cults, because they don't ascribe to Calvinism, etc. As I am relatively new to reformed theology, I find it disgusting when such words are thrown around about brothers and sisters in Christ.


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## Philip A

There is some good discussion on Calvary Chapel from some of the other URC pastors in Southern California as well, available at the URClearning website.

They don't beat around the bush


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## Semper Fidelis

The history of American cults is very interesting. All the major cults had their genesis in a hyper-eschatalogical focus. 

Calvary Chapel is not a cult yet but is the breeding ground for a cult in a couple more generations.


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## Cheshire Cat

SemperFideles said:


> The history of American cults is very interesting. All the major cults had their genesis in a hyper-eschatalogical focus.



That is a very important point right there. So true.


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## Blue Tick

trevorjohnson said:


> WHat were the circumstances of your being asked to leave?




Well in a nut shell I was on staff as a "Children's Ministry director". As I accepted the position my wife and I were quite excited about about serving in the ministry. However, the crack started to widened when we came to the conclusion that the pre-trib rapture was false. This was the beginning of the end for our Calvary days. Eventually we were introduced to the DOG while on staff which led to even further spiritual trauma. (For the good) I became so convicted about being a closet calvinist while employed for an organization that was completely opposed to calvinism. So I thought the right thing to do was to tell my boss (senior pastor) that I was reformed and that I am going to resign. I didn't have another job lined up but told him I had an interview. I just wanted to get out of there. Well he it took on the surface lightly like everything was ok. He said that was fine as long as I didn't teach the kids "that stuff". He was trying to make it sound like everything was ok. However, this was not the case. Well at the time I was naive' and just trying to get out of this mess with the least amount of resistance. My boss instructed the rest of the staff that I was resigning because I wanted to go work in secular employment which was a lie. I wasn't resigning because i wanted to work some place I was quitting because we didn't believe what calvary taught anymore. So in defense of why I was leaving I sent an email to the staff, from the church office, once it hit the boss's mailbox he came in and told me to get out. Quite sternly!

Now what did the email consist of? Well basically I itemized my grievances with the church and submitted scripture for proof. Basically it challenged everything we had been taught.I guess you could say it was somewhat of a personal reformation for my wife and I.

Would I have done things differently? I don't know? It was a very hard place to be. I don't know how we could have left without any friction or repercussions and be truthful.


Anyway I am just thankful that the Lord brought us out.


John


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## Me Died Blue

Philip A said:


> There is some good discussion on Calvary Chapel from some of the other URC pastors in Southern California as well, available at the URClearning website.
> 
> They don't beat around the bush



You beat me to the recommendation, Philip! Their program is indeed very polemical in nature, and very helpful in accurately and effectively getting at the root of issues considered - well, except for the latest one on theonomy!  

This particular mini-series was good in that way of exposing the nature of the CC movement.


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## R. Scott Clark

Caleb,

I qualified my use of the word cult. It has cult-like tendencies. It is, as defined by BC 29, a sect.

Please read Belgic Confession art 29. We've discussed it at length on this board. Maybe you can find the thread.

rsc


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## Scott Bushey

caleb_woodrow said:


> Within CC there can be some significant differences between churches, depending on size, location, pastors, etc. No, CC is not a cult. In that case you may as well just label many non-denominational churches cults, because they don't ascribe to Calvinism, etc. As I am relatively new to reformed theology, I find it disgusting when such words are thrown around about brothers and sisters in Christ.



Caleb,
The accusations are pointed at the infrastructure, not it's members. CC does not possess the marks of a true church; in this, they are a false church.


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## Scott Bushey

OK; technically, they are not a cult....but they're heading that way. I repent of the statement; I have to admit, since coming out of the 'large bible study' aka CC, I have lots of anger towards them. 



> Psalm 69:9 9 For the zeal of thine house hath eaten me up;





> Isaiah 5:13 13 Therefore my people have gone into captivity, Because they have no knowledge; Their honorable men are famished, And their multitude dried up with thirst.


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## Cheshire Cat

Thanks for the link Philip, I will listen to those lectures when I have time. 




R. Scott Clark said:


> Caleb,
> 
> I qualified my use of the word cult. It has cult-like tendencies. It is, as defined by BC 29, a sect.
> rsc



I read the BC 29, and according to "The marks by which the true Church is known are these: If the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached therein...etc" , Wouldn't that make all non-Calvinist preaching churches sects?

I might have missed the word sect in there, but all I see is 'true church' and 'false church'.


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## R. Scott Clark

Caleb,

This is a good question.

Re-read Art 29 closely. You'll see that there are three categories.



> we say that the body and communion of the true Church must be distinguished from all sects that call themselves the Church.



1. True churches;
2. False church (Rome)
3. Sects (Anabaptists).

The true churches were regarded as the confessional Reformed and Lutheran churches (so far as I know we've never declared the Lutherans a false church or a sect) and the confessional Anglicans. So, no, we've never said that all churches but the confessionally Reformed are sects, but it is true that many congregations who arrogate to themselves the name church are not such. 



> The marks by which the true Church is known are these: If the pure doctrine of the gospel is preached therein; if it maintains the pure administration of the sacraments as instituted by Christ; if church discipline is exercised in punishing of sin;



The Belgic defines what it means by the pure doctrine of the Gospel and the pure adminstration of the sacraments. 

CC lacks in almost every case at least one of these. 

We've had long discussions about this in the wake of the Christianity Today cover story.

Blessings,

rsc


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## Cheshire Cat

Thanks for the reply Dr. Clark. 

I am almost finished with those little "lectures" on CC, good stuff.


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