# Dealing with Santa



## CatherineL

For those who have or had little ones and didn't "do" the traditional Santa Claus thing (i.e. telling the kids that Santa is real and all the rest), could you share how you explained this to your kids. Do you ban all things Santa, or do you talk about it as a game? How do you handle your kids interacting with kids who believe Santa is really real? Dh and I would appreciate any advice, thanks!


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## Notthemama1984

You could have them watch this video. 

[video=youtube;ozqFy8jpAAI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozqFy8jpAAI&feature=related[/video]

I found it cute.


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## Reformed Thomist

Hold on just a second... Santa isn't real?


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## Edward

I've always told my daughter that I don't believe in Santa and don't think he exists. She didn't believe me on this point, but I wasn't going to be put in a position of lying to her. 

I'm sure others here have been much more diligent in their teaching, and would certainly not advocate what I have done as being adequate.


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## AThornquist

It's actually easier for the kids to believe in Santa. Then, have a neighbor dress up as him and make a great commotion one early Christmas morning. Have dad holding a baseball bat over Santa as he lies motionless on the floor. Dad should stomp around and yell a few times, and then have mom call the kids to see what's going on since it _must_ be something exciting like a new dog. *Oh no!* It wasn't a dog! _DADDY KILLED SANTA!_ Then dad drags the limp body out of the house and the parents sit down with the children and explain that they must _never,_ *ever,* EVER mention Santa again.

And they won't. Until they are 33 and seek counseling. Problem solved.


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## Southern Presbyterian

We told our kids the truth, plain and simple. They took it all in stride, but were always confused as to why some kid's parents would want to lie to them. 

They did "spill the beans" to a few of their friends but we explained to the parents involved that we do not lie to our children and do not expect them to lie. We never had anyone get really upset -- but a couple did insist to their children that our kids were just "confused."


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## Rich Koster

AThornquist said:


> It's actually easier for the kids to believe in Santa. Then, have a neighbor dress up as him and make a great commotion one early Christmas morning. Have dad holding a baseball bat over Santa as he lies motionless on the floor. Dad should stomp around and yell a few times, and then have mom call the kids to see what's going on since it _must_ be something exciting like a new dog. *Oh no!* It wasn't a dog! _DADDY KILLED SANTA!_ Then dad drags the limp body out of the house and the parents sit down with the children and explain that they must _never,_ *ever,* EVER mention Santa again.
> 
> And they won't. Until they are 33 and seek counseling. Problem solved.


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## Romans922

Explain that he is just like a cartoon, bugs bunny, it is fake and for some people it is fun, but it is a lie, hoax. 

Be as honest as possible and don't lie to your child.


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## PresbyDane

Well tell them about the REAL Santa

St. Nicholaus one of the bishops that participated in the niceancounsil and during that counsil knocked one of the other bishops out cold, during a debate because the other bishop said that Jesus was not fully God.
This made Santa so angry, because as he said, how can you say this and thus claim all our brothers have died in vain.
So he jumped from his seat, crossed the floor entered the other side and knocked the guy cold for saying Jesus was not fully God.

Later he became the patron saint for sailors and children, and that is how the myth of santa started, because he gave money and gifts to children in the town where he was a bishop.

The above is my favorite santa story, and not only that, this one is true!
So tell them that!
I bet they will like that santa better.


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## AThornquist

PresbyDane said:


> Well tell them about the REAL Santa
> 
> St. Nicholaus one of the bishops that participated in the niceancounsil and during that counsil knocked one of the other bishops out cold, during a debate because the other bishop said that Jesus was not fully God.
> This made Santa so angry, because as he said, how can you say this and thus claim all our brothers have died in vain.
> So he jumped from his seat, crossed the floor entered the other side and knocked the guy cold for saying Jesus was not fully God.




Wow, really?


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## MMasztal

When we adopted our boys, they were 5 1/2. When Christmas rolled around a few months later, we didn't bring up Santa until they asked. We told them Santa wasn't real and he was for people who didn't believe in Jesus. They shared that with several other kids along with the Gospel when the opportunities arose, but we never got any complaints. The sad part is that many Christians continue to do the "Santa thing". As the "Santa" kids grow up, might they think that Jesus is another fairy tale their parents told them about as Santa was?


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## Philip

Way I heard the story, St. Nick knocked out Arius himself.


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## PresbyDane

AThornquist said:


> PresbyDane said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well tell them about the REAL Santa
> 
> St. Nicholaus one of the bishops that participated in the niceancounsil and during that counsil knocked one of the other bishops out cold, during a debate because the other bishop said that Jesus was not fully God.
> This made Santa so angry, because as he said, how can you say this and thus claim all our brothers have died in vain.
> So he jumped from his seat, crossed the floor entered the other side and knocked the guy cold for saying Jesus was not fully God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, really?
Click to expand...


Yes! Really.


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## AThornquist

PresbyDane said:


> AThornquist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PresbyDane said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well tell them about the REAL Santa
> 
> St. Nicholaus one of the bishops that participated in the niceancounsil and during that counsil knocked one of the other bishops out cold, during a debate because the other bishop said that Jesus was not fully God.
> This made Santa so angry, because as he said, how can you say this and thus claim all our brothers have died in vain.
> So he jumped from his seat, crossed the floor entered the other side and knocked the guy cold for saying Jesus was not fully God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wow, really?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes! Really.
Click to expand...


Whoa. That is too cool


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## Southern Presbyterian

MMasztal said:


> As the "Santa" kids grow up, might they think that Jesus is another fairy tale their parents told them about as Santa was?



This is exactly what happened with a friend of mine from High School. His testimony was that if Santa and the Easter Bunny are lies then so must be God. He would never listen to any attempts I ever made to share the Gospel with him. I made up my mind back then that I would never lie to my children about Santa or anything else.


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## CatherineL

Do you tell them not to tell other children? So far we've just told our almost 5 year old just not to bring it up, that some parents play the "Santa game" and some kids think that Santa is really real, but that we don't play that game because it distracts us from Jesus. 

We've talked a little about the St. Nicholas legend (former RC here, we always put our shoes outside our classrooms around this time in Dec to get a candy cane stuck in them on St. Nick's feast day in Catholic school).

I guess I'm looking for specific practicalities - like what do you teach your child to say to the well meaning people at the store who say to your kids "are you excited about Santa?" That sort of thing. I don't want her to come off as some little holier-than-thou, especially to a non-believer.


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## Jack K

We told them some families like to pretend Santa is real, and many kids even believe it, but he's actually make believe. Our first priority was not to lie to them. What would they think about the Bible stories we tell if they found we lied about Santa?

We also tried to avoid being disparaging of people who do pretend Santa is real. We told our kids it isn't nice to ruin those people's fun.

Finally, we told them the true story of St. Nicholas. But this led to my daughter, when she was about three, explaining to a friend that Santa was dead. Not a popular move.


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## Kevin

I talk about the real story of St Nick & how the ledgends grew up around him. Stockings by the fire gold foil coins, Santa on the roof, the whole story.

I have found that kids love these stories, don't feel "lied to". 

Santa is not a myth. He was a real historical figure that is the source of many legends. These stories are a valuable part of our history & culture. Properly told they connect us to our past & can be a teaching tool.


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## Andres

Southern Presbyterian said:


> MMasztal said:
> 
> 
> 
> As the "Santa" kids grow up, might they think that Jesus is another fairy tale their parents told them about as Santa was?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is exactly what happened with a friend of mine from High School. His testimony was that if Santa and the Easter Bunny are lies then so must be God. He would never listen to any attempts I ever made to share the Gospel with him. I made up my mind back then that I would never lie to my children about Santa or anything else.
Click to expand...


obviously I do not know your friend or any of his background, but am I the only one who finds his argument ridiculous? No kids of my own yet, but I determined a loooong time ago that I would never feed them the lie of santa. I determined not to do the whole santa thing because I refuse to sin and lie to my kids, but I never really thought someone would come to the conclusion, "oh santa isn't real, so God must not be".


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## AThornquist

I agree, Andrew. It sounds like a lame excuse from a hardened heart.


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## reformedminister

My daughter asked me last year about Santa Claus. She was in kindergarten. I told her about the real Santa Claus, St. Nicholas. Our first public gathering was the following thanksgiving (last year). She told her cousins that Santa was "dead". I have told her not to tell other kids who "believe" in Santa Claus, but we are still working on that. She is a little confused why other kids believe. This is our second year with her understanding of "the truth": easter bunny, Santa, tooth fairy - not real; Jesus - real. I think things are setting in. I am just working it out as you are. I was in third grade when I found out there was no Easter bunny! Just be honest with your kids.


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## Southern Presbyterian

Name me any excuse that isn't lame.

You do know the definition of an excuse, don't you?

An excuse is the skin of a reason stuffed with a lie.

Still, I don't want to provide any "skins" for the excuse makers to "stuff". That's all I'm saying. 

And, unfortunately back in High School I was not so mature and sophisticated in my thinking as to come to my decision to not lie to my future children based solely on Biblical principles. After all, I was a teenage independent fundy super broad evangelical back in those days.


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## Grillsy

Anyone have any links to how the legends grew around St. Nick?


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## Dao

Reformed Thomist said:


> Hold on just a second... Santa isn't real?



Of course he's real. Don't listen to them.


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## Montanablue

I actually don't really have a problem with the Santa myth - I view it the same way as I view the tooth fairy. It does seem to take on a life of its own though, so I rather doubt that I would do it with my children. I also think its almost more special for kids to receive gifts from parents and other family members than from this mythical man that they've never interacted with. 

I like the way my parents handled it. They told us that Santa was a game that some parents played with their children for fun. They said that we didn't play the game, but that we shouldn't ruin other people's fun by spoiling the surprise of Santa - that it was the parents' job to tell their children, not ours. I would probably do the same with my children. I find it pretty irritating, actually, when self-righteous 5 year olds are marching up to their peers and disabusing them of their belief in Santa...


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## PuritanCovenanter

I have told this story a few times on the PB but will cut and paste it again. It still cracks me up. 

Before I was married I purposed in my heart to never lie to kids about St. Nicholaus. My reasoning was if I told them a lie about Santa who is to say that I am not lying about Jesus. So when I started having children I told them the truth. St. Nick was dead but that he lived in heaven with Jesus. I told them about the fables and myths and said it was wrong to make Santa Claus have characteristics that only God has.

Well, one Christmas we were in a department store and the cashier asked my two boys (probably around 6years old) if they were good and if Santa was going to come to their house. To which my oldest looked at her and said, "No, Santa is dead." You should have seen the look of horror on that ladies face. It was great. I then explained to her that we believe that the real St. Nick is alive in heaven with Jesus because Jesus died for the Bishops' sin, and that we wanted our son's to know that their parents always told them the truth. They could trust us when we said Jesus was real.

It is a great witness.


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## AThornquist

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Before I was married I purposed in my heart to never lie to kids about St. Nicholaus. My reasoning was if I told them a lie about Santa who is to say that I am not lying about Jesus. So when I started having children I told them the truth. St. Nick was dead but that he lived in heaven with Jesus. I told them about the fables and myths and said it was wrong to make Santa Claus have characteristics that only God has.
> 
> Well, one Christmas we were in a department store and the cashier asked my two boys (probably around 6years old) if they were good and if Santa was going to come to their house. To which my oldest looked at her and said, "No, Santa is dead." You should have seen the look of horror on that ladies face. It was great. I then explained to her that we believe that the real St. Nick is alive in heaven with Jesus because Jesus died for the Bishops' sin, and that we wanted our son's to know that their parents always told them the truth. They could trust us when we said Jesus was real.



I LOVE it.


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## TKarrer

Montanablue said:


> I find it pretty irritating, actually, when self-righteous 5 year olds are marching up to their peers and disabusing them of their belief in Santa...



I'm perplexed by your attitude about this matter Montanablue. 

I think its glorious when a child is taught well enough to share the truth with their friends; makes for good future habit. Should they do so snidely or without compassion? Of course not. But we dont tell our kids that other parents like to play the self-righteous game; where they tell their kids they are good little kids, and have no concern in the world besides worldly attainment; and that we shouldnt rain on their parade...do we? I respect those who just dont want their kids to expose the falsehood of santa clause; but to critisize kids who are enlightened enough to know the real significance of this time of year, because they maybe are not mature enough to express it as they should, seems harsh and unreasonable. 

Telling kids the real story of St. Nicholas, and more importantly, that the substance of this festive time is the Gospel narrative, seems much more Christian than does the mythical, Christ-less approach so many "Christians" take today. And I wouldnt worry too much about the kids telling others of the truth either. Can it be embarassing? Sure it can. So is unveiling the deception of sin. I think its ok to ask your kids to politely avoid referencing the non-existence of today's "Santa"; but its also good to teach them how best to communicate reality, in a way that centers upon Jesus.


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## tellville

I lived in a apartment building growing up most of my life. Also, my parents put gifts under the tree before Christmas (they had too, no place to hide gifts, and hiding wrapped gifts is dumb). I figured things out pretty quickly. Actually, I can't ever remember a time where I thought Santa was real. I just thought he was a cool fictional character who had catchy music. My parents didn't ever really say Santa wasn't real (though I think they said it once or twice in passing) - they just set things up so it was obvious that he wasn't.


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## AThornquist

Santa's works-based righteousness is insidious. And I actually don't mean this sarcastically. If only good little boys and girls get presents from Santa and _somehow_ every little boy and girl who has parents with at least a little money gets presents, that means we are teaching children that they are "good" even while they sin. How then can we be surprised when they grow up and as adults believe this exact same thing? "Well yeah I've made mistakes but that doesn't make me a bad person! God should still give me ___________ ."


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## Theoretical

Well-stated, Andrew. You stated some of my greatest concerns with teaching and encouraging children about Santa, given this works-righteousness issue.


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## Andres

AThornquist said:


> Santa's works-based righteousness is insidious. And I actually don't mean this sarcastically. If only good little boys and girls get presents from Santa and _somehow_ every little boy and girl who has parents with at least a little money gets presents, that means we are teaching children that they are "good" even while they sin. How then can we be surprised when they grow up and as adults believe this exact same thing? "Well yeah I've made mistakes but that doesn't make me a bad person! God should still give me ___________ ."



 Santa also promotes greed like you wouldn't believe, not only in the kids (I can ask for everything, after all, Santa just makes it) but also in the parents (i have to buy ___ for my kids or they will be disappointed in Santa). 
There is a lady at my church who has been posting on FB how she has been going around to every store in town, waiting in lines, and running through aisles trying to find some ridiculous toy because "it will make her son soooo happy".


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## kvanlaan

We did our Sinterklaas celebration yesterday. This year we did not read the story, but usually we do (leaving out the part about Swart Piet, a Moor who takes bad children off to Spain). As others have mentioned, the story is of the 'real' Saint Nick. Then we open presents, eat oliebollen (not this year - no time, and smell of cooking oil throughout the house would proabably have pregnant and smell-sensitive wifey running to the bathroom) and basically sit around the wood stove chatting. Very pleasant, and leaves the 25th as a purely religious holiday, no gifts, just church.


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## CatherineL

Thanks for the tips - Kevin, any links about Sinterklass? Also if anyone has found especially good St. Nicholas books I would appreciate a recommendation. 

Just to clarify, I wasn't intending to start a debate on whether one should or not participate in the Santa thing. Its been decided for us, like some of you, long before we had kids. Now its just working it out in practice (always easier in theory than in practice!)

We have relatives who are very into Santa that are coming to celebrate Christmas. They know where we are, and they (being RC) are cool with it in theory, but still throw in a lot of Santa speak around my kids, so in a sense they know what they're missing. Its not like I can just pretend this aspect of the holiday doesn't exist. Dh and I are wondering whether to do "stockings" with little presents (just making clear that the presents are from mom and dad, just remembering what St. Nick did in his efforts to serve God) or just skip it altogether, even around others doing it. 

I'd really appreciate insight from those who have found good solutions for situations like this. Thanks!


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## Montanablue

> We have relatives who are very into Santa that are coming to celebrate Christmas. They know where we are, and they (being RC) are cool with it in theory, but still throw in a lot of Santa speak around my kids, so in a sense they know what they're missing. Its not like I can just pretend this aspect of the holiday doesn't exist. Dh and I are wondering whether to do "stockings" with little presents (just making clear that the presents are from mom and dad, just remembering what St. Nick did in his efforts to serve God) or just skip it altogether, even around others doing it.



We had stockings as children, and my parents did just that - they had little presents in them, but the gifts were from Mom and Dad. I still get a stocking and I'm 24!


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## Mushroom

Jack K said:


> We told them some families like to pretend Santa is real, and many kids even believe it, but he's actually make believe. Our first priority was not to lie to them. What would they think about the Bible stories we tell if they found we lied about Santa?
> 
> We also tried to avoid being disparaging of people who do pretend Santa is real. We told our kids it isn't nice to ruin those people's fun.
> 
> Finally, we told them the true story of St. Nicholas. But this led to my daughter, when she was about three, explaining to a friend that Santa was dead. Not a popular move.


 That's pretty much how we handled it.

Of course, one time my son told a store cashier that the mythological version of Santa was "a lie from the pit of hell". He shares that bent for diplomacy with his Dad.


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## newcreature

CatherineL said:


> Do you tell them not to tell other children? So far we've just told our almost 5 year old just not to bring it up, that some parents play the "Santa game" and some kids think that Santa is really real, but that we don't play that game because it distracts us from Jesus.
> 
> We've talked a little about the St. Nicholas legend (former RC here, we always put our shoes outside our classrooms around this time in Dec to get a candy cane stuck in them on St. Nick's feast day in Catholic school).
> 
> I guess I'm looking for specific practicalities - like what do you teach your child to say to the well meaning people at the store who say to your kids "are you excited about Santa?" That sort of thing. I don't want her to come off as some little holier-than-thou, especially to a non-believer.



No, I don't think you should encourage them to hold their beliefs secretly. This may be their first experience of "evangelism". Whatever we, as Christians, teach our children, we should teach them to share it boldly with their friends and anyone who asks. 

My mom always told us when we were little that St. Nick was a real person who used to give money and toys to children, that he has been dead for a long time, and that now many people salute his legacy by dressing up or giving gifts at Christmas. She followed up by saying that we celebrate Christmas as observation of the birth of Jesus, and that we give gifts because we love each other and are financially able observe the tradition of doing so. We were told that the only Santa in our home was Mommy and Daddy, and that Jesus gave us the gift of life even though mom and dad gave toys. 

I was never confused. I never believed in Santa. And to other children I shared my beliefs with, most of them didn't believe me anyway. With my children, it has been more of a challenge. They believe Santa is real no matter what I tell them. And yes, sometimes there are gifts under the tree from Santa. Maybe that's wrong?


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## Poimen

Dealing with Santa is easy: cancel Christmas - in the church and in the home. At that point there will be no room for syncretism from this issue because Santa Claus will cease to exist.


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## gene_mingo

We just told our children he wasn't real and never really had to explain past that.


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## MMasztal

Poimen said:


> Dealing with Santa is easy: cancel Christmas - in the church and in the home. At that point there will be no room for syncretism from this issue because Santa Claus will cease to exist.



I tend to agree. My previous OPC churches had no special service for Christmas or Easter. My current church goes the whole 9 yards. . I can go along with the tradition of celebrating the birth of our Savior, but not to the point of making it a religious holiday.


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## py3ak

newcreature said:


> With my children, it has been more of a challenge. They believe Santa is real no matter what I tell them. And yes, sometimes there are gifts under the tree from Santa. Maybe that's wrong?



I can see where it might be hard to believe that someone who is giving you presents doesn't exist.


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## Montanablue

> I'm perplexed by your attitude about this matter Montanablue.



I believe very strongly that parents should be able to raise their children in the manner which they see fit - even if I disagree with it. So, I do not think that parents should _actively encourage_ their children to go around contradicting other families' tradition. First, its an insult to the authority of the parents of the other family. Second, it cultivates a spirit of self-righteousness and "my family is better" in the child.

Note: I'm not saying that anyone here does this! But I have seen many strutting six year olds preaching to both children and adults about how they should change their family's traditions, and I think its both ridiculous and rude. Just my 2 cents.


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## R. Scott Clark

The Death of Santa Heidelblog


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## Paul Trask

With our children we taught them about the real Santa Claus from Germany who was rich and gave gifts to the poor. We home school so they had some pressure to believe and the commercial Santa but we discourage it by telling them he is not real. Christmas is like a Hobbits birthday you buy gifts for everyone else.


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## au5t1n

Tell them Santa is an Arminian! 

-----Added 12/6/2009 at 08:18:01 EST-----



Paul Trask said:


> Christmas is like a Hobbits birthday you buy gifts for everyone else.



 Never thought of it that way!


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## Honor

this is what we do and it's a bit different but.....
First we don't emphisies Santa at all... we do read the Night Before Christmas but only before we read them the Story in Luke. They know full well that Christmas is "Jesus' birthday" and that Santa was a real guy and he really did give gifts to children (we don't mention that he's dead now) and that the reason WE give gifts is because we want to be like Jesus who is part of the Trinity and God Gave us the BEST GIFT EVER... His Son. we also have an orniment on our tree that is of Santa kneeling before the baby Jesus in the manger. We show that to the boys and talk about how only Jesus was perfect and even Santa sinned and needed a Saviour. But we haven't told them that he (santa) isn;t real. We believe that they are kids and that being a kid is supposed to be fun and full of make believe and whimsy. I know a lot of people might disagree but this is how we do it. that way the kids still can tell dear old grandma what santa got them for Christmas and they can leave cookies and milk out and all that... it's fun. 
However we have flat out told them that the Easter Bunny isn't real and we don't "do" the EB thing. we told them that people who don't celebrate Jesus' Resurrection wanted to celebrate something too so they made up the EB we don't. they still get a Easter basket and one gift(the candy signifing the sweetness of the event that He Rose and the gift is for the Gift of defeating death for us). we still hunt for eggs (I totally love easter egg hunts) .
the Tooth fairy... our kids haven't lost any teeth yet. but we don't see anything wrong with it. but we haven't gotten that far yet. 
and I am totally with Kathleen on this.... those little kids and their snotty little attitudes just get under my skin. like the little girl in The Best Christmas Padgent Ever. anyways that's what we do.... HTH


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## Montanablue

> nor do I expect her to lie to other kids if they push her into a corner to talk about Santa.



To clarify - I wouldn't want parents to tell their children to lie either. I was referring to children who rush around enlightening their peers without prompting. At any rate, most small children aren't going to be pushed by their peers to lie about Santa. As a child, I always told my friends that I didn't get gifts from Santa, my family gave each other gifts instead.


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## Kevin

joshua said:


> i've always told chloë that santa, the reindeer, etc. Are just pretend and that no one has all-knowing power or is everywhere all the time except god alone. They're fine to pretend about, but that's as far as it goes. I also never tell her that christmas is about Jesus, religion, etc. . . Because it shouldn't be (yes, i realize the immense unpopularity of my position, even amongst many professing reformed folk). I tell her the only holy day that exists is the lord's day and that we don't celebrate Christ's birth apart from his life, death, and resurrection. If it must be *at all*, i much prefer the emphasis be on family, modest gift-giving (if people prefer), and just wintery fun time than it be on idolatry and will-worship (and i am not speaking to the intent or sincerity of those who engage therein). I would cut it out altogether except that the people with whom my little one is most of the time celebrate it, as does my mum n dad, etc. But i will not lie to my little girl, nor do i expect her to lie to other kids if they push her into a corner to talk about santa.
> 
> P.s. - besides the idolatrous part of this "holiday" in making it "christian," i hate the commercialization of it because of the ridiculous pressure that's put on people to spend money they don't have at work, at school, at home, and at play. To me, it is simply absurd to spend the kind of money some people spend at christmas that they might not otherwise spend except to keep from disappointing their children because they don't "get stuff" like all the other families do.



wcf 21

qed

-----Added 12/7/2009 at 12:23:42 EST-----



R. Scott Clark said:


> The Death of Santa Heidelblog



That was silly.


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## py3ak

Montanablue said:


> Note: I'm not saying that anyone here does this! But I have seen many strutting six year olds preaching to both children and adults about how they should change their family's traditions, and I think its both ridiculous and rude. Just my 2 cents.



Kids are renowned for saying things parents would rather they didn't. One pleasant child asked me, as I was preparing to leave her house, if I was going to hell. Getting irritated at a 6-year old for indiscretion seems like setting your expectations too high.


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## a mere housewife

py3ak said:


> newcreature said:
> 
> 
> 
> With my children, it has been more of a challenge. They believe Santa is real no matter what I tell them. And yes, sometimes there are gifts under the tree from Santa. Maybe that's wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see where it might be hard to believe that someone who is giving you presents doesn't exist.
Click to expand...


I find it very difficult not to believe in Batman, for instance.



Joshua said:


> I would cut it out altogether . . .



Whatever, Grinch. I like to trim the occu-pant with who-fu-floof and have roast beast and bang our tartinkers and sing fahhooforays and play noisy games. Someday you will find the strength of 10 grinches plus 2 to embrace the floof and the tringlers and pantookers.


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## TimV

I vividly recall, over 4 decades ago, thinking that God was something made up by grown ups to get kids to behave, and that thought came just after I was informed that there was no Santa. So I never did the Santa, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy etc.. things.


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## a mere housewife

Joshua said:


> a mere housewife said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would cut it out altogether . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whatever, Grinch. I like to trim the occu-pant with who-fu-floof and have roast beast and bang our tartinkers and sing fahhooforays and play noisy games. Someday you will find the strength of 10 grinches plus 2 to embrace the floof and the tringlers and pantookers.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Such nonsensical trabblings do not dortestecate the chifflamations of the formaltesque gigs.
Click to expand...


Yes, but you're a three-decker sauerkraut and toadstool sandwich with arsenic sauce, whose soul is an _appalling dumpheap_. Moreoverishly, you drive a crooked hoss. And you really need to see a Dentist about those termites.

(Don't test me today: it's snowing. It makes me feel festive. I will hurt you with my Harley-hat horns.)


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## a mere housewife

Joshua, I'm sorry; if you're going to use big words, and not illustrate your posts with pictures, I don't think we can have a meaningful dialogue.


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## a mere housewife

[video=youtube;MPBS7dVrE1U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPBS7dVrE1U[/video]


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## Montanablue

py3ak said:


> Montanablue said:
> 
> 
> 
> Note: I'm not saying that anyone here does this! But I have seen many strutting six year olds preaching to both children and adults about how they should change their family's traditions, and I think its both ridiculous and rude. Just my 2 cents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kids are renowned for saying things parents would rather they didn't. One pleasant child asked me, as I was preparing to leave her house, if I was going to hell. Getting irritated at a 6-year old for indiscretion seems like setting your expectations too high.
Click to expand...


I'm having a lot of trouble with clarity here...apologies! What irritates me is not when a child commits such an indiscretion, but when their parents encourage and applaud them for it.


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## matt01

Romans922 said:


> Be as honest as possible and don't lie to your child.



Start early, and be honest. Our three year old knows that he is not real, and that she won't be getting any presents from him. What is the point in denying the inevitable?


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## Andres

Joshua said:


> I've always told Chloë that Santa, the Reindeer, etc. are just pretend and that no one has all-knowing power or is everywhere all the time except God alone. They're fine to pretend about, but that's as far as it goes. I also never tell her that Christmas is about Jesus, religion, etc. . . because it shouldn't be (yes, I realize the immense unpopularity of my position, even amongst many professing Reformed folk). I tell her the only holy day that exists is the Lord's Day and that we don't celebrate Christ's birth apart from his life, death, and resurrection. If it must be *at all*, I much prefer the emphasis be on family, modest gift-giving (if people prefer), and just wintery fun time than it be on idolatry and will-worship (and I am not speaking to the intent or sincerity of those who engage therein). I would cut it out altogether except that the people with whom my little one is most of the time celebrate it, as does my mum n dad, etc. but I will not lie to my little girl, nor do I expect her to lie to other kids if they push her into a corner to talk about Santa.
> 
> P.S. - Besides the idolatrous part of this "holiday" in making it "Christian," I hate the commercialization of it because of the ridiculous pressure that's put on people to spend money they don't have at work, at school, at home, and at play. To me, it is simply absurd to spend the kind of money some people spend at Christmas that they might not otherwise spend except to keep from disappointing their children because they don't "get stuff" like all the other families do.



  and a resounding  plus 

Josh, you did a find job articulating exactly why I have no desire to celebrate Christmas. I catch more flack for my position than for any other of my beliefs. My wife and I will buy presents for our parents and our new nephew. I refuse to participate in all the gift exchanges at work, church, etc. Yes, I said church. I refuse to put up a tree in my house. I will go to my wife's job's Christmas party but only to eat a free dinner and have a drink. If this maketh me a Scrooge or grinch, then so be it. 

Josh, I hope you don't mind, but I am posting what you said on my blog if that's okay.


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## CatherineL

Just today I had all my kiddos at the paint store and the very nice salesman was asking my little ones if they were "ready for santa?" My almost 5 year old was a little confused, but just smiled and nodded. What he asked if they had been good, she looked at me, and I said "they'll definitely be some goodies to open at our house!" Then when he walked away my daughter was like, "does he know that its a game?" I told her yes, but he assumes that *she* doesn't and he's just being nice. She nodded very sagely. So maybe this won't be so difficult after all.


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## PuritanCovenanter

Joshua doesn't realize it but even the Grinch was converted. 



> Narrator: He puzzled and puzzled till his puzzler was sore. Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before! Maybe Christmas, he thought, doesn't come from a store. Maybe Christmas... perhaps... means a little bit more!
> 
> Narrator: And what happened then? Well, in Whoville they say that the Grinch's small heart grew three sizes that day. And then - the true meaning of Christmas came through, and the Grinch found the strength of *ten* Grinches, plus two!



[video=youtube;MPBS7dVrE1U]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPBS7dVrE1U[/video]


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## Dwimble

Sounds like we do what many others here have said they do as well...tell our daughter that Santa is just pretend, like all the other pretend things that we have fun with. We include the various Santa-related carols in all the regular carols we sing and listen to, and she has a couple of Santa-themed toys and such. She gets excited when she sees Santa, pictures of Santa, toys, and so on...but in exactly the same way that she gets excited when seeing Curious George, Goofy, or any other cartoon-type thing with which she's familiar but knows isn't real.

We are always careful to explain to her what the real meaning of Christmas is, and never talk about Santa as if he is real or relevant like God, who is the center of our lives and provides all we have. We never mention anything about Santa bringing presents to us or anything like that...because, after all, he is just pretend. All that we have is provided by God, who takes care of us. What I find a little annoying though is how many people (even at church) regularly ask her, "What do you want Santa to bring you?" "What did Santa bring you?" "Are you excited that Santa is going to come?" and so on. She always looks confused when people ask her that, and obviously doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. And frankly I'm glad about that. It is odd that the Santa tradition is so prevalent in our culture that the overwhelming majority of adults in America won't even hesitate to ask a complete stranger's child if she is excited that Santa is going to be visiting her house and bringing her presents.

Our daughter isn't really old enough yet (she just turned 3) to understand about kids believing in him or not, about telling other kids, and so on. But pretty soon we'll be teaching her that some parents want their kids to believe in Santa, even though we don't really understand why, and it isn't her place to tell them the truth. She is to just be polite and leave that for their parents to tell.


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## LawrenceU

Christmas is a bid deal in our family. After all I am half Christmas. (My mother's name is Mary Christmas, seriously.) Having said that, we do not do Santa Claus. I was never taught to believe he was real. He was just a joke to us. (By the way, I still get teased by my in laws about the way we pronounce it: Sanny Claws is close.) We were taught, and we have taught our daughter, about St. Nicholas and how the legends grew around his life. We do decorate the house. We are doing it right now as a matter of fact. We do hang stocking from the mantle. We do decorate a tree with nice things. We enjoy the time and focus upon God's grace, the blessing of family, and use it as a time to reach out to others in a special manner. (Folks tend to be more receptive at this time of year.)


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## Tripel

Christmas is a big deal in our household too, but we don't "do" Santa. There are some Santa Claus ornaments on the tree and figurines about the house, but he's not as prominent in our Christmas decorating as baby Jesus. 




....ok, that was a joke. We DO actually have Santas around the house, but only in acknowledging a fun, somewhat-fictional character. All the presents under our tree and in our stockings are from family.


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## kvanlaan

> Thanks for the tips - Kevin, any links about Sinterklass? Also if anyone has found especially good St. Nicholas books I would appreciate a recommendation.



I have a few pages of an older (non-PC) book called "Tales Told in Holland" that I can scan and email you - its the one we read. Just PM me.


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## Rich Koster

Poimen said:


> Dealing with Santa is easy: cancel Christmas - in the church and in the home. At that point there will be no room for syncretism from this issue because Santa Claus will cease to exist.



I tried and was verbally flogged


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## Dao

While we debate on telling lies or truths about Santa, what about the lies that Jesus was ~never~ born on December 25th? Wasn't he born during warmer months like Spring?


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## LawrenceU

Dao said:


> While we debate on telling lies or truths about Santa, what about the lies that Jesus was ~never~ born on December 25th? Wasn't he born during warmer months like Spring?



Not necessarily. When the temple was still standing sheep were kept nearby so that sacrificial offerings would always be available. The area around Bethlehem has much better forage for the sheep and seems to have been one such area.


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## au5t1n

The justification I have heard for Dec. 25th is that the Jews and early Christians believed a prophet was martyred on the same day he was either born or conceived. They calculated Jesus' crucifixion as March 25th (which was reasonably close), and so they added 9 months to get his birthday - Dec. 25th.

I'm not buying it, but oh well.


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## TimV

And just because you can't watch sheep at night in a pasture in Hanover doesn't mean you can't in the Mideast ;-) The snow doesn't cover the fodder several feet deep in Palestine anymore than it does here in San Luis County CA. It's December, and the cows and sheep are still out there in the hills. I never did understand that objection as a kid. Until I went to Iowa one winter in my early twenties ;-)


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## Honor

LawrenceU said:


> Christmas is a bid deal in our family. After all I am half Christmas. (My mother's name is Mary Christmas, seriously.)



Dude that's what i wanted to name Chloe... but Bobby said no... oh well Chloe Noel is great anyways


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## newcreature

sans nom said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Be as honest as possible and don't lie to your child.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Start early, and be honest. Our three year old knows that he is not real, and that she won't be getting any presents from him. What is the point in denying the inevitable?
Click to expand...


Maybe this is paramount. I did not start early. I can not turn back the hands of time. And putting presents under the tree "from Santa" started about 10 years ago when my daughter asked my if she had been a bad girl because Santa has never left her a gift. So it was then that we started leaving out the cookies and milk for Santa, and in exchange "he" leaves presents. 

I have grown a lot since then as a Christian. Perhaps now would be a good time to change. Sasha no longer believes in Santa, Owen can be re-conditioned, and Jack doesn't even seem to care.

-----Added 12/11/2009 at 11:20:08 EST-----



py3ak said:


> newcreature said:
> 
> 
> 
> With my children, it has been more of a challenge. They believe Santa is real no matter what I tell them. And yes, sometimes there are gifts under the tree from Santa. Maybe that's wrong?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can see where it might be hard to believe that someone who is giving you presents doesn't exist.
Click to expand...


Thank you for your insight. Yes, I must now admit that I have given the children mixed messages.


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## DMcFadden

No Santa Paws? No Santa Paws? Who said that there was no Santa Paws?


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## py3ak

Joshua said:


> _Britney Spears_ and _Presbyterians_ are composed of the same letters.



I knew there were eminently solid objections to Presbyterianism: thanks for bringing this up, Josh. It adds an important weapon to the intellectual arsenal.


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## C. M. Sheffield

*The Children's Santa Claus Catechism*

*The Children's Santa Claus Catechism*

Question 1: Children, is Santa Claus real?
Answer: No

Question 2: Children, is Jesus real?
Answer: Yes!

Seriously... this is how I do it in my house.


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## au5t1n

Joshua said:


> Then again, _Britney Spears_ and _Presbyterian_s are also composed of the same letters, and I don't want that connection!



  Awesome!


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## Paul Trask

We discouraged our children from believing in Santa Clause. I remeber when my Nephew Kenny was young years ago got Santa and God confused. Santa is a Geni and our God is our Lord. Recently my eldest daughter Abby told me, "Dad, I am so glad you didn't teach us about Santa." We told a story about a man of wealth around Christmas of a Christian man who had some wealth would go out into the snow to deliver clothes and food stuffs to the poor in his town.


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## Andres

Paul Trask said:


> We told a story about a man of wealth around Christmas of a Christian man who had some wealth would go out into the snow to deliver clothes and food stuffs to the poor in his town.


 
Huh?


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## JM

Saint Nicholas ::: My Kind of Santa Claus


> One weak tradition has him actually attending the Council of Nicea in A.D. 325, when Arian doctrine was rejected. The story goes that he got into a heated debate with Arius himself about whether there was a time when the Word did not exist. Nicholas strongly disagreed.
> 
> The debate ended suddenly when Nicholas punched out Arius then and there on the floor of the council!



Is the flooring of Arius true? I hope so.


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## Megan Mozart

Man, as a fantasy-prone child, being forced to believe Santa existed by my parents, teachers, society, and Hollywood so vehemently caused me so much grief. As a child I always wanted to believe magical fairy tale things are real. Being told over and over and over by movies and tv shows that Santa is really real and don't you dare listen to anyone that says otherwise only made it worse. So when I realized Santa was not real I felt hurt and lied to by my own parents. To this day I still can't understand why parents want to lie to their children. I was sinned against, and to this day that still gives me pain sometimes.


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## au5t1n

That brings up an interesting point. It seems there is an abundance of movies that teach children to view non-believers in Santa as horrible people, infidels - People who don't believe in Santa are crotchety old men who don't have an inner child and probably throw rocks at children from their porches.


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## CatherineL

austinww said:


> That brings up an interesting point. It seems there is an abundance of movies that teach children to view non-believers in Santa as horrible people, infidels - People who don't believe in Santa are crotchety old men who don't have an inner child and probably throw rocks at children from their porches.



haha, that's how *I* felt this Christmas with my mom in law. Despite being told that we don't "do" Santa, and the fact that my oldest told her flat out that mom was the one who fills the stockings, mom in law still insisted on going on and on about Santa on the rooftop, yadda yadda. Finally I had to pull my 5 year old aside and tell her not to contradict Grandma, she's just pretending and having fun, but the result is my daughter thinks her grandparents are kind of nutty.


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## au5t1n

CatherineL said:


> austinww said:
> 
> 
> 
> That brings up an interesting point. It seems there is an abundance of movies that teach children to view non-believers in Santa as horrible people, infidels - People who don't believe in Santa are crotchety old men who don't have an inner child and probably throw rocks at children from their porches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha, that's how *I* felt this Christmas with my mom in law. Despite being told that we don't "do" Santa, and the fact that my oldest told her flat out that mom was the one who fills the stockings, mom in law still insisted on going on and on about Santa on the rooftop, yadda yadda. Finally I had to pull my 5 year old aside and tell her not to contradict Grandma, she's just pretending and having fun, but the result is my daughter thinks her grandparents are kind of nutty.
Click to expand...

 
Well, grandparents have to be kind of nutty, I think. I will enjoy being a nutty grandparent one day.


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## Andres

CatherineL said:


> austinww said:
> 
> 
> 
> That brings up an interesting point. It seems there is an abundance of movies that teach children to view non-believers in Santa as horrible people, infidels - People who don't believe in Santa are crotchety old men who don't have an inner child and probably throw rocks at children from their porches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha, that's how *I* felt this Christmas with my mom in law. Despite being told that we don't "do" Santa, and the fact that my oldest told her flat out that mom was the one who fills the stockings, mom in law still insisted on going on and on about Santa on the rooftop, yadda yadda. Finally I had to pull my 5 year old aside and tell her not to contradict Grandma, she's just pretending and having fun, but the result is my daughter thinks her* grandparents are kind of nutty*.
Click to expand...

 
grandparents are nutty, at least mine are. I learned long ago to take what they say with a grain of salt. Most of the time I just nod and say, "sure, grandma"


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## au5t1n

Andres said:


> CatherineL said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> austinww said:
> 
> 
> 
> That brings up an interesting point. It seems there is an abundance of movies that teach children to view non-believers in Santa as horrible people, infidels - People who don't believe in Santa are crotchety old men who don't have an inner child and probably throw rocks at children from their porches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha, that's how *I* felt this Christmas with my mom in law. Despite being told that we don't "do" Santa, and the fact that my oldest told her flat out that mom was the one who fills the stockings, mom in law still insisted on going on and on about Santa on the rooftop, yadda yadda. Finally I had to pull my 5 year old aside and tell her not to contradict Grandma, she's just pretending and having fun, but the result is my daughter thinks her* grandparents are kind of nutty*.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> grandparents are nutty, at least mine are. I learned long ago to take what they say with a grain of salt. Most of the time I just nod and say, "sure, grandma"
Click to expand...

 
My grandpa invented the M&M and the question mark. He has also had virtually every job you can imagine, including working in the basement of the White House.


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## MLCOPE2

CatherineL said:


> austinww said:
> 
> 
> 
> That brings up an interesting point. It seems there is an abundance of movies that teach children to view non-believers in Santa as horrible people, infidels - People who don't believe in Santa are crotchety old men who don't have an inner child and probably throw rocks at children from their porches.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> haha, that's how *I* felt this Christmas with my mom in law. Despite being told that we don't "do" Santa, and the fact that my oldest told her flat out that mom was the one who fills the stockings, mom in law still insisted on going on and on about Santa on the rooftop, yadda yadda. Finally I had to pull my 5 year old aside and tell her not to contradict Grandma, she's just pretending and having fun, but the result is my daughter thinks her grandparents are kind of nutty.
Click to expand...

 
That sounds similar to my in-laws. My wife and I told them a few years ago that we were not going to "do" santa anymore and she thought that we were exercising some type of child negligence or abuse. She said that we were taking away the "magic" of Christmas. Then, the following Christmas, she decided to get all of the adults a copy of the book "The True Saint Nicholas: Why he matters to Christmas" . I thought it is quite humorous! Still haven't read it though.


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## peetred

Simple. Santa is just like all the disney characters on TV for my son. We stress to him that Santa is not real. If we see a santa look-alike at the mall we tell him that it's a man dressing up to look like santa. He doesn't visit out house on Christmas eve.. and if others want to be so ignorant as to ASSUME that everyone believes in (or lies to their kids about) santa and make a comment to us at the store or anywhere else, we tell them the truth.. That we don't celebrate santa, we celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ.


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## etexas

PresbyDane said:


> Well tell them about the REAL Santa
> 
> St. Nicholaus one of the bishops that participated in the niceancounsil and during that counsil knocked one of the other bishops out cold, during a debate because the other bishop said that Jesus was not fully God.
> This made Santa so angry, because as he said, how can you say this and thus claim all our brothers have died in vain.
> So he jumped from his seat, crossed the floor entered the other side and knocked the guy cold for saying Jesus was not fully God.
> 
> Later he became the patron saint for sailors and children, and that is how the myth of santa started, because he gave money and gifts to children in the town where he was a bishop.
> 
> The above is my favorite santa story, and not only that, this one is true!
> So tell them that!
> I bet they will like that santa better.


 CLOSE! Saint Nick punched .........Pelagius! He was arrested and place in Imperial Holding for a Day, given Pelagius had lost court favor, it only took a little coaxing by the other Bishops to get him "sprung".


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