# 2 Peter 1:8-9



## InSlaveryToChrist (May 18, 2010)

"For if these things be in you, and abound, they make you that ye shall neither be barren nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. _But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins._" (2 Peter 1:8-9)

Perhaps many will agree that verse 9 seems to promote one loosing his salvation, so, I have several questions regarding the passage:

(1) Is it possible for a new creature in Christ to be spiritually blind in some sense?

(2) Is it even possible for a Christian to possess ALL "these things" (v. 5-7)?

(3) Is there a connection between _faith_, _virtue_, _knowledge_, _temperance_, _patience_, _godliness_, _brotherly kindness_ and _charity_ ("these things"), that if you lack ONE of these, you lack them ALL or if you possess ONE, you actually possess them ALL?*

*I got the idea from Romans 5:3-5, where it says, 

“And not only so, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that _tribulation_ WORKETH _patience_; And _patience_, _experience_; and _experience_, _hope_: And _hope_ maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.”

(4) Is verse 9 talking about ritual purging from sins (such as Baptism) or the Atonement of Christ?

(5) If verse 9 is talking about backsliding, then how would you prove it (some other way than by just appealing to God's promises or the covenant Christ has purchased for the elect by His blood)?

Please, answer the questions and share your thoughts concerning the context in 2 Peter 1. Thank you, in advance!


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## Contra_Mundum (May 18, 2010)

1) No one becomes a "mature Christian" the moment he's first-delivered. So, no spiritual grace is highly developed in a new Christian. Therefore, it is next-to-impossible to tell the difference between a new convert and a false convert. Plus, as Christ said in the parable of the soils, many who are no believers at all at first "receive the word with joy," but it isn't a genuine conversion, as subsequent (rootless) behavior proves.

Perhaps, we can think of the new believer as with babies. The new-born "focal length" is approximately the distance from the mother's breast to her face. The baby doesn't see much beyond that clearly.


2) Christians possess all those things (vv5-7) at minimum in seed form. Perhaps some of those things sprout quickly. Others take time to show.


3) As I said, with newer Christians, it can be hard to tell the difference in some cases between a complete lack of the Spirit and his fruit, and the beginnings of grace. People need to grow in grace, 2Pet.3:18.


4) Some persons, who once seemed to take hold of the faith, now seem to have "forgotten" what they learned, what they believed. What state are they actually? Well, we can't see that. But if a person doesn't repent, then we might be justified in concluding that they were never actually "made to see" in the first place.

People who receive spiritual sight, and are given faith to believe savingly, will not fall, but are preserved by God. But from the human standpoint, we are duty-bound to "make our calling and election sure" (v10). How can we be sure, if we are all the time "forgetting"? We won't be sure, but we will be anxious about our standing with God.

I do not think we ought to view the "purging" or cleansing as any ritual of baptism, apart from the _meaning_ of baptism. Baptism, if it puts us in mind of the Spirit's cleansing, is rightly used in this way. But I do not think Peter assumes that people are falling into sin because they aren't meditating on their baptism.


5) As I said, it could be backsliding, or it could be a lack of faith to begin with. We cannot atomize Peter from the rest of Scripture, for example Matthew 13. Peter addresses the church, and the gathering of members contains a comprehensive range of ages, of spiritual maturity, and even spiritual life and death.

What is divine election? If it is God's choice, then it is permanent by definition, since it was effected in eternity (Eph.1). The gifts and *calling* of God are without repentance, Rom.11:29. But how can we be sure? By studying to find those virtues (vv5-7) inside of us.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (May 18, 2010)

Thank you for your response! Very helpful!


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## Iconoclast (May 18, 2010)

> (3) Is there a connection between faith, virtue, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness and charity ("these things"), that if you lack ONE of these, you lack them ALL or if you possess ONE, you actually possess them ALL?*


 These virtues come into the life of a christian one upon the other like a choir blends their voices together, one on top and along side of another.
as Pastor Buchanon pointed out their is a growth and maturity that happens gradually, but it happens to everyone who perserveres in faith.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (May 18, 2010)

Try to think of the Christian life as it is described in Scripture--as a race, a course, etc. All races have a beginning, middle, and end. If one starts out well in a marathon, but is distracted and turned aside, we would not say that he has finished the course, no matter how well he started. One may begin, to all appearances, to have all the gifts to finish the race--he may even change his behavior--it may appear that he was purged from his old sins. However, unless he finishes the race, he is no true child of our heavenly Father.


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