# Michael & Debi Pearl--No Greater Joy Ministries



## PastorSBC

What do you know about them? I am interested in hearing from some of you about their theology and teaching. I have been reading some and forming some of my own opinions, but want the thoughts of the brothers/sisters here. I have someone in my church that is really excited about their work and I want to be able to talk to them and have clear reasons why I may not be as excited about their work. 

Thanks.


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## Calvinist Cowboy

I've been to one of their conferences, and while they had some very good points on raising children in the fear and admonition of the Lord, they are very Arminian and, while not stating it in so many words, tacitly deny original sin. They ARE better though, than 98% of anything that the world has to offer in the area of child-raising.


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## E Nomine

I've only browsed their bookstore which led me to conclude they're Arminian Ruckmanites.


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## PastorSBC

Calvinist Cowboy said:


> I've been to one of their conferences, and while they had some very good points on raising children in the fear and admonition of the Lord, they are very Arminian and, while not stating it in so many words, tacitly deny original sin. They ARE better though, than 98% of anything that the world has to offer in the area of child-raising.



How do they deny original sin? Do you have any examples?


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## PastorSBC

LadyFlynt said:


> They believe that one can become "sinless", in this life, of one's own effort.



Wow, that's huge. Is there a reference in one of their books or on their website that shows this?


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## Calvinist Cowboy

Whilst I was sitting 10 feet from him, Mr. Pearl said that babies do not come into the world fallen. Instead, it is we who "break them" into the habit of sin. In fact, he explicitly stated that babies aren't vipers in diapers like the "Calvinists" believe.


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## uberkermit

Read the section _God-Given Self-Centeredness_ here.

While reading their materials, it is good to keep in mind their theology of sin.


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## Knoxienne

I've read Debi Perl's Created to Be His Helpmeet. While it has some good practical advice in it (a broken clock is right twice a day type thing) it is not a book I would recommend for a married Christian woman young in the faith or to a woman in a struggling or crisis-type marriage. There are so many good, Christian books for that. Created is one of those books you recommend to someone strong in biblical doctrine who wants to make a good thing even better with some practical advice and who doesn't mind eating fish while spitting out a *whole lot *of tiny bones.  

When I think of this book I think of a dear pastor friend who once said, "We need to use great caution and care with how we treat the image of God."


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## uberkermit

Calvinist Cowboy said:


> Whilst I was sitting 10 feet from him, Mr. Pearl said that babies do not come into the world fallen. Instead, it is we who "break them" into the habit of sin. In fact, he explicitly stated that babies aren't vipers in diapers like the "Calvinists" believe.



I had forgotten that quote [edit: I have read him say something to that extent], but yes that is an excellent example of where Michael Pearl stands on the issue.


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## he beholds

They are a bit extreme with their parenting advice. I think you can listen to what they have to say and use some of it, but be careful not to fall in too deep with them.
I don't know too much about their theology. I know they stress proper roles of husbands, wives, parents, and children.


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## PastorSBC

Knoxienne said:


> I've read Created to Be His Helpmeet. While it has some good practical advice in it (a broken clock is right twice a day type thing) it is not a book I would recommend for a married Christian woman young in the faith or to a woman in a struggling or crisis-type marriage. There are so many good, Christian books for that. Created is one of those books you recommend to someone strong in biblical doctrine who wants to make a good thing even better with some practical advice and who doesn't mind eating fish while spitting out a *whole lot *of tiny bones.
> 
> When I think of this book I think of a dear pastor friend who once said, "We need to use great caution and care with how we treat the image of God."



Thanks, I am glad you brought that book up, that is one that I have heard about. 

Is it true that Mrs. Pearl basically encourages wives in abusive relationships to consider it training and correction from the Lord?


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## Knoxienne

PastorSBC said:


> Knoxienne said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've read Created to Be His Helpmeet. While it has some good practical advice in it (a broken clock is right twice a day type thing) it is not a book I would recommend for a married Christian woman young in the faith or to a woman in a struggling or crisis-type marriage. There are so many good, Christian books for that. Created is one of those books you recommend to someone strong in biblical doctrine who wants to make a good thing even better with some practical advice and who doesn't mind eating fish while spitting out a *whole lot *of tiny bones.
> 
> When I think of this book I think of a dear pastor friend who once said, "We need to use great caution and care with how we treat the image of God."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I am glad you brought that book up, that is one that I have heard about.
> 
> Is it true that Mrs. Pearl basically encourages wives in abusive relationships to consider it training and correction from the Lord?
Click to expand...


Yes - to an unhealthy extent.


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## Kevin

My wife says that Debbie's "Helpmeet" book is ok.

The child training books are terrible. They encourage dangerous & abusive practices, and tell people that this is Gods plan. Very dangerous.

They hold to a number of very heretical views, esp re. sin & original sin. I have all of their books & I refuse to lend them out.


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## LadyFlynt

No, the Helpmeet book is not okay. Everything is the woman's fault. The woman must meet the man's needs, regardless if the man is abusive, etc. Too many bones in this one, you might choke.


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## he beholds

LadyFlynt said:


> No, the Helpmeet book is not okay. Everything is the woman's fault. The woman must meet the man's needs, regardless if the man is abusive, etc. Too many bones in this one, you might choke.



No thank you's left and didn't want to forget: thank you!!


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## py3ak

They are Pelagian.

However, they encourage women whose husbands are _sexually_ abusive to report the problem to the police and extract the kids ASAP, even if it involves deception. There is plenty wrong with them that we don't need to invent any thing.


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## he beholds

py3ak said:


> They are Pelagian.
> 
> However, they encourage women whose husbands are _sexually_ abusive to report the problem to the police and extract the kids ASAP, even if it involves deception. There is plenty wrong with them that we don't need to invent any thing.



Thanks! I knew that sounded too bad to be true!


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## QueenEsther

I like their stuff on gardening and cooking and homeschooling ideas (not that I've seen all of them).


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## Zac Nelson

Can anybody recommend a good child-raising book? My daughter is 7 months old and I haven't read anything yet. I would like to read a book that has details and specific procedures from the earliest stage, not just a book with broad principles. Ideally, something written fairly recently, not hundreds of years ago! My wife and I just bought the Pearl's book `To Train Up a Child' but now I'm hesitant to read it...

Thanks!

Zac


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## QueenEsther

Shepherding a Child's Heart is supposed to be good.


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## LadyFlynt

Zac Nelson said:


> Can anybody recommend a good child-raising book? My daughter is 7 months old and I haven't read anything yet. I would like to read a book that has details and specific procedures from the earliest stage, not just a book with broad principles. Ideally, something written fairly recently, not hundreds of years ago! My wife and I just bought the Pearl's book `To Train Up a Child' but now I'm hesitant to read it...
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Zac



I've heard both of these are good.

Amazon.com: Grace-Based Parenting: Tim Kimmel: Books

and

Amazon.com: The Complete Book of Christian Parenting & Child Care: A Medical & Moral Guide to Raising Happy, Healthy Children: William Sears, Martha Sears: Books


Stay away from anything by Gothard, Ezzo, or Pearl.


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## Grace Alone

Zac Nelson said:


> Can anybody recommend a good child-raising book? My daughter is 7 months old and I haven't read anything yet. I would like to read a book that has details and specific procedures from the earliest stage, not just a book with broad principles. Ideally, something written fairly recently, not hundreds of years ago! My wife and I just bought the Pearl's book `To Train Up a Child' but now I'm hesitant to read it...
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Zac



Zac, please don't read it!


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## ZackF

PastorSBC said:


> What do you know about them? I am interested in hearing from some of you about their theology and teaching. I have been reading some and forming some of my own opinions, but want the thoughts of the brothers/sisters here. I have someone in my church that is really excited about their work and I want to be able to talk to them and have clear reasons why I may not be as excited about their work.
> 
> Thanks.



I saw their pictures online. He has an Eastern Orthodox beard. Maybe that is the reason for their weak view on Original Sin.


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## Grace Alone

I'll just add that years ago someone recommended the Pearl's newsletter to me, and at that time, I didn't have the resources to check them out. But even not knowing anything about their very flawed theology, I saw some big red flags in their child rearing philosophy. One example aside from those already mentioned is how the boys were encouraged to just go rough-house with men, I guess to make them tough. I would find it tremendously annoying for a boy to just come up to a man and start wrestling him! I thought they were encouraging very rude behavior in that aspect, and of course, the girls were a whole other story.

While there may be some good in their ideas, you can say the same about almost anything. So I would never, ever recommend the Pearl's books to a young Christian couple. In fact, I'd throw them away as opposed to donating them! I stopped that newsletter after a few issues.


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## LawrenceU

We get their newsletter. Great intel.


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## MrMerlin777

> Arminius was just a backslidden Calvinist who tried to modify Calvinism. He is too Calvinistic for me. So my detractors will have to find someone far more to the right if they want to identify me with some historical position.



Ok... How's about Pelagian then instead of Arminian! Is Pelagius "free will" enough for this guy?


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## Zac Nelson

A friend of mine subscribed to their newsletter and I remember reading an article once where Michael Pearl advocated castration for certain offences, quoting the passage in the Bible where Jesus says `if your right hand offends you etc'

That was fairly alarming!

My wife and I have the `Helpmeet' book and we both liked it, although there is a general tone of male hero worship, Debi appears to think men can do no wrong and should be allowed to do as they please. She makes excuses for male laziness and stubbornness. It's extremely helpful to get the input of others on this matter; I would hate it if my wife and I made mistakes in our child-rearing approach just because one book led us astray.


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## ZackF

Zac Nelson said:


> A friend of mine subscribed to their newsletter and I remember reading an article once where Michael Pearl advocated castration for certain offences, quoting the passage in the Bible where Jesus says `if your right hand offends you etc'
> 
> That was fairly alarming!
> 
> My wife and I have the `Helpmeet' book and we both liked it, although there is a general tone of male hero worship, Debi appears to think men can do no wrong and should be allowed to do as they please. She makes excuses for male laziness and stubbornness. It's extremely helpful to get the input of others on this matter; I would hate it if my wife and I made mistakes in our child-rearing approach just because one book led us astray.



That is the problem with people who have good marriages writing all of the marriage books. Mr. Pearl probably treats her really well.


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## Kevin

LadyFlynt said:


> No, the Helpmeet book is not okay. Everything is the woman's fault. The woman must meet the man's needs, regardless if the man is abusive, etc. Too many bones in this one, you might choke.



JC, I think by OK she meant "not terrible heretical **** like the others are, this one has a useful idea or two" Not great.


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## MrMerlin777

Kevin said:


> LadyFlynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the Helpmeet book is not okay. Everything is the woman's fault. The woman must meet the man's needs, regardless if the man is abusive, etc. Too many bones in this one, you might choke.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JC, I think by OK she meant "not terrible heretical **** like the others are, this one has a useful idea or two" Not great.
Click to expand...



"not terrible heretical skubalon" Blast that word filter!


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## Kevin

I should have used french or gaelic.


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## PastorSBC

Thanks for everyone's thoughts, it has been very helpful.


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## Whitefield

KS_Presby said:


> I saw their pictures online. He has an Eastern Orthodox beard.


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## LawrenceU

It is just a beard. He's not Eastern Orthodox. He hangs more with the Anabaptists.


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## BG

*Don't read it.*

I have to agree with most of the others, having read most if not all of their books. I just can't recommend it to you. That is not to say that it is all bad, I did like their cure for bed wetting, whining and bordom. About 20% of what they write is good old fashion horse sense, the other 80% is good old fashion horse...you know what. 


Here are some books that I would recommend to anyone:

_Withhold not correction _P and R Bruce Ray

_Family Man, Family Leader _Vision Forum Phil Lancaster

_Parent's Concern for their Unsaved Children_ SDG Edward Lawrence

_A Family well-Ordered _SDG Cotton Mather

_The Heart of Anger _Calvary Lou Priolo

_Christian Living in the Home_ P and R Jay Adams

_Thoughts on Family Worship_ SDG J. W. Alexander

_Family Practice _P and R R.C. Sproul Elisabeth Elliot.

_The Family Worship Book _Christian Focus Terry Johnson.


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## Mayflower

he beholds said:


> I have heard that they would spank for bedwetting .........



No Greater Joy: True Confessions of a Bed-Wetter

True Confessions of a Bed-Wetter
By: Debi Pearl

Many of you have written us about the problem of your older children wetting their beds. Through our extensive social outreach we have persuaded one of these tormented souls to go public with her confession.

Many of you have written us about the problem of your older children wetting their beds. Through our extensive social outreach we have persuaded one of these tormented souls to go public with her confession. You will read in her very own words the chronicle of her bitter struggle to rise above domestic shame and a wet mattress. 

“When I was growing up I wet on the bed. I hated wetting on the bed and would have done anything to be able to stop. I played hard and I slept hard. I simply could not wake up! No amount of medication, discipline, or shaming could change my personality. Today, I still run the days course like the road runner himself. At night I sleep like the dead. Thankfully, when I was nine years old, my bladder finally learned to adjust. 

My mom was a very practical woman. Every night she simply provided me with an old towel to stuff in my under pants, and brought clean sheets every morning. The heavy-duty rubber cover protected the mattress, while my mother protected our secret. 

To my shame, I never could spend the night away or go to camp without dread of wetting the bed. 

But mom—bless her heart—never added to my shame. She made it as easy as possible on me until nature allowed relief. 

To the many hundreds of moms who have written, I just want to say, “Relax,” teach your bedwetting children to privately put on a towel or diaper at night. Remind them to go to the bathroom, but don’t make an issue of it. They hate their problem more than you do. They are the ones who wake up cold, wet, smelly, and embarrassed. 

Just like some kids learn to walk late, others need time to grow out of this problem. Remember, someday your child may grow up and write an article on bedwetting, or co-author a book on child training; so make sure you leave a good impression. This has been the confession of Debi Pearl. I do feel better now


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