# Death of Christ



## AV1611 (Jul 2, 2007)

Am I correct in saying that Christ's human nature died upon the cross but not the second person of the Trinity?


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## historyb (Jul 2, 2007)

That's an interesting question. I never thought about it like that, I just thought all of Christ died on the cross


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## Dieter Schneider (Jul 2, 2007)

AV1611 said:


> Am I correct in saying that Christ's human nature died upon the cross but not the second person of the Trinity?



Such a view contradicts Acts 20:28, 1.Cor.2:8c. HE died - the eternal Son of God. HE took upon Himself our human nature, in which HE died, just as WE will partake in the divine nature (2.Peter 1:4).


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## AV1611 (Jul 3, 2007)

Dieter Schneider said:


> Such a view contradicts Acts 20:28, 1.Cor.2:8c. HE died - the eternal Son of God. HE took upon Himself our human nature, in which HE died, just as WE will partake in the divine nature (2.Peter 1:4).



I see nothing in those verses that would contradict such an understanding. Surely we cannot say that the divine nature of Christ died and so for a period of time the Godhead was no longer trinitarian? Surely the best view is that the divine nature of Christ did not die but rather his death is the death of his human nature?

*WCF 8:7* "Christ, in the work of mediation, acteth according to both natures, by each nature doing that which is proper to itself (Heb 9:14; 1Pe 3:18): yet, by reason of the unity of the person, that which is proper to one nature, is sometimes in Scripture attributed to the person denominated by the other nature (Joh 3:13; Act 20:28; 1Jo 3:16)."


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## Herald (Jul 3, 2007)

Richard - I wouldn't use the word "nature" but I would say that his human body died on the cross. I connotate nature with spiritual condition. This is one of the reasons why I believe Christians no longer have a sin nature (Eph.2:1-18). Christ's nature was divine, although contained within a human body (Phil. 2:5-8). Christ's body died on the cross but not His deity.

P.S. I admit that I am being rather finicky in my use of the word nature.


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## MW (Jul 3, 2007)

Christ possesses a true human body and a true reasonable soul. He died when His human soul left His human body and went to God. The body was subsequently laid in the grave, and Christ rose again when His soul was reunited to His body.

The divine nature most certainly was not contained within a human body, but the divine nature assumed a true human nature, so that Christ is God and man in two entire distinct natures and one person for ever.

The technical wording is that the person of Christ died when He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature, or what Hebrews describes as "through the eternal Spirit." 'Tis the altar which determines the value of the gift. This sacrifice is of infinite value because it is offered on the altar of Christ's infinte nature as God. It is this which gives worth and efficacy to His sufferings, obedience, and intercession on behalf of His people.


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## Dieter Schneider (Jul 4, 2007)

I think that Pope Leo is superb on all this. Click here.


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## Tirian (Jul 4, 2007)

Christ had to pay the wages of our sin - the divine nature could not have ceased to exist during the period of His bodily death until His resurrection. More than the physical death, He had to suffer Hell on the cross for us.

Matt


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## Dieter Schneider (Jul 7, 2007)

Matthew Glover said:


> Christ had to pay the wages of our sin - the divine nature could not have ceased to exist during the period of His bodily death until His resurrection. More than the physical death, He had to suffer Hell on the cross for us.
> 
> Matt



I am not sure why you say 'until His resurrection'?


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## Tirian (Jul 7, 2007)

Dieter Schneider said:


> I am not sure why you say 'until His resurrection'?



Because I thought that was the implication of the original question. Why do you ask?

Question 52: How was Christ exalted in his resurrection?
Answer: Christ was exalted in his resurrection, in that, not having seen corruption in death (of which it was not possible for him to be held), *and having the very same body in which he suffered, with the essential properties thereof (but without mortality, and other common infirmities belonging to this life), really united to his soul, he rose again from the dead the third day by his own power*; whereby he declared himself to be the Son of God, to have satisfied divine justice, to have vanquished death, and him that had the power of it, and to be Lord of quick and dead: all which he did as a public person, the head of his church, for their justification, quickening in grace, support against enemies, and to assure them of their resurrection from the dead at the last day.

Question 53: How was Christ exalted in his ascension?
Answer: Christ was exalted in his ascension, in that having after his resurrection often appeared unto and conversed with his apostles, speaking to them of the things pertaining to the kingdom of God, and giving them commission to preach the gospel to all nations, *forty days after his resurrection, he, in our nature, and as our head, triumphing over enemies, visibly went up into the highest heavens*, there to receive gifts for men, to raise up our affections thither, and to prepare a place for us, where himself is, and shall continue till his second coming at the end of the world.


Matt


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## RamistThomist (Jul 7, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Christ possesses a true human body and a true reasonable soul. He died when His human soul left His human body and went to God. The body was subsequently laid in the grave, and Christ rose again when His soul was reunited to His body.
> 
> The divine nature most certainly was not contained within a human body, but the divine nature assumed a true human nature, so that Christ is God and man in two entire distinct natures and one person for ever.
> 
> The technical wording is that the person of Christ died when He offered His human nature on the altar of His divine nature, or what Hebrews describes as "through the eternal Spirit." 'Tis the altar which determines the value of the gift. This sacrifice is of infinite value because it is offered on the altar of Christ's infinte nature as God. It is this which gives worth and efficacy to His sufferings, obedience, and intercession on behalf of His people.



Thank you; that was very helpful.


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## Iconoclast (Jul 7, 2007)

*A body has thou prepared*

5Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 

6In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 

7Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God. 

8Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law; 

9Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. 

10By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 

It is in the virgin born body that Jesus took upon himself that he identified with the children given to Him. Here is how Hebrews 10 speaks of it. 
Earlier on in hebrews 2:9-14 we read,
6But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him? 

7Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands: 

8Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him. 

9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man. 

10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 

11For both he that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethren, 

12Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee. 

13And again, I will put my trust in him. And again, Behold I and the children which God hath given me. 

14Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil; 

Verse 9,and 14 seem to speak to what Phil.2 says is the "form" of a servant.
These verses are so special it is hard to fully grasp the magnitude of what is being revealed to us;
Also 1 tim3;16
16And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory


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## Dieter Schneider (Jul 10, 2007)

AV1611 said:


> Am I correct in saying that Christ's human nature died upon the cross but not the second person of the Trinity?



Do you ever sing the last line of this hymn?


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jul 10, 2007)

Without making a distinction between the human and divine natures, one falls into either Eutychianism, or Appolinarianism, or possibly Arianism if taken too far. All these are heretical.

The divine nature cannot die. It cannot even have passions or parts, much less die. The human nature, not person, died and was simply attached hypostatically to the divine nature. But if the "person" of Christ died, then God died. If God died, then Neitchie is right and God is dead, and we should all become annihilationists, evolutionists, or some reprobate form of ungodliness because the philosophical, moral and religious implications of a God who can die is ludicrous.


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## AV1611 (Jul 11, 2007)

Dieter Schneider said:


> Do you ever sing the last line of this hymn?



I hold to EP so no I have not


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## Theogenes (Jul 12, 2007)

The reason Jesus became incarnate was so He could die. He had to become a man because God cannot die.


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## Dieter Schneider (Jul 12, 2007)

Whilst painfully aware of the implications resulting from a faulty understanding of the incarnation (I reject any formulation that goes beyond Chalcedon) Scripture states that HE (as Mediator) died. And the HE is the Eternal Son of God – God in the flesh – one person and two natures. Neither Christ's incarnation nor His death mean severance from the Godhead. Death, at any rate, implies separation never annihilation. 
But must we assume that the Father felt nothing when the Son of God died? That leaves us with an unmoved mover – a static rather than dynamic God. God is love, and that must include mutual affections within the Godhead, which we as God's image-bearers share. I would go as far as to say that the Father never loved the Son more than when He was dying on the Cross – and that includes emotions. To say that the Father watched in a detached manner seems absurd to me. If Abraham felt for His Son (Gen.22), how much more our heavenly Father? (Rom.8:32 alludes to the event and speaks of the priesthood of the Father).
If you ask me 'Who is He on yonder tree dies in grief and agony? I must continue with these words: 'Tis the LORD, the King of glory'. HE loved me and gave Himself for me. The hymn does not solve the mystery, but urges us to fall at His feet – humbly. If our theology does not lead to doxology then we are all wrong. Calvary is a revealed mystery but also a mysterious revelation. No theological formula can sum it up. We are on holy ground - we have entered the most holy place. 
For a provocative discussion on 'impassibility' see Paul Helm and Donald Macleod and most helpfully, Phillip R. Johnson


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## Archlute (Jul 12, 2007)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> Without making a distinction between the human and divine natures, one falls into either Eutychianism, or Appolinarianism, or possibly Arianism if taken too far. All these are heretical.
> 
> The divine nature cannot die. It cannot even have passions or parts, much less die. The human nature, not person, died and was simply attached hypostatically to the divine nature. But if the "person" of Christ died, then God died. If God died, then Neitchie is right and God is dead, and we should all become annihilationists, evolutionists, or some reprobate form of ungodliness because the philosophical, moral and religious implications of a God who can die is ludicrous.


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