# Mark 13 - the Abomination of Desolation



## Eoghan (Dec 7, 2009)

How do we read this? Is it 100% identifiable as the destruction of the second temple 70AD? If so what was so bad about the fall of Jerusalem compared with all the attrocities since? Can anyone tell me precisely where the details off the sacking of Jerusalem are recorded?


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## Eoghan (Dec 7, 2009)

Josephus - one of the commentaries referred me to Josephus for the full horror of the fall of Jerusalem but Josephus just seems to ramble on without getting to the "Killling bit". Anyone know precisely where Josephus gives the gory detail?

With the incident singled out as the worst in human history I can't help feeling there is yet a future fullfillment


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## Peairtach (Dec 7, 2009)

Be patient with Josephus and you will glean much background info about the New Testament.

_For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. (Matthew 24:21)_

It depends on how you define "worse" and "tribulation". Our Lord judged that this, destruction of Jerusalem, was the most troublous time in human, or covenantal, history.

This was the dislocation of the Divine Theocracy that had stood since circa 1400 BC and it was also a pointer to the judgment on the Last Day.

Of course trouble has continued to occur, sometimes worse, sometimes better, _since_ AD 70 over these past 1,939 years.

Was it worse than the Global Flood, the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah, or WWI or WWII, the Shoah, 9/11 ? 

You judge between our Lord's words - who can see the end from the beginning and into eternity - and your thoughts on the subject.

*Quote from Wikipedia article on Siege of Jerusalem*


> Josephus claims that 1,100,000 people were killed during the siege, of which a majority were Jewish, and that 97,000 were captured and enslaved, including Simon Bar Giora and John of Gischala. Many fled to areas around the Mediterranean. Titus reportedly refused to accept a wreath of victory, as there is "no merit in vanquishing people forsaken by their own God".



Of course you might say, _only_ 1,100,000 people were killed. 

How do you measure "tribulation"; by the number of corpses lying dead at the end of the day? Also see the quote from Titus. Can it be measured how much this "God forsakenness" added to the tribulation?


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## BobVigneault (Dec 7, 2009)

Here are a bunch of articles relating Josephus and the fall of Jerusalem at the preteristarchive site. {Beware of the hyper-preterists!}

One helpful article in particular is David Chilton : Josephus on the Fall of Jerusalem (1985) Introductory Essays to the Works of Josephus @ PreteristArchive.com, The Internet's Only Balanced Look at Preterist Eschatology and Preterism


The topic of Josephus' Wars is discussed here.


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## Scott1 (Dec 7, 2009)

On-line version of _The Jewish War_, Titus Flavius Josephus

The Jewish war - Google Books


I'm not greatly familiar with the systematic interpretations of prophecy. But, I think a good case can be made the "abomination of desolation" occurred about the time the temple veil was torn at Christ's crucifixion. 

At that point, the sacrifices and system of the temple sacrifice for sin became desolate and an abomination to a God who had given his one and only Son (who all the sacrifices pointed toward).



> Luke 23
> 
> 44And it was about the sixth hour, and there was a darkness over all the earth until the ninth hour.
> 
> ...


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Dec 7, 2009)

Historically, the "Abomination of Desolation" refers to any time in the history of redemption when the people of God become "abominable" in the sight of the Lord God so that He "desolates" or removes His presence from them. 

Such was the case in the days of Eli, when the Tabernacle was taken captive by the enemies of the Lord. Christ declared, pertaining to the destruction of the Temple in Jerusalem (70AD) that "your house is left unto you desolate" (the end of Matthew 23) The abomination they committed was the killing of the prophets, culminating in the murder of Christ Himself.


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