# What happened to demon possession?



## no1special18

I was asked by a kid the other day about demon possession -- he wanted to know if it was real -- so ofcourse I told him it was real, but I have had something on my mind since he asked the question. Why, in the gospels, is demon possession not all that uncommon, and today we hardly ever see cases of demon possesion. At first I thought that maybe demon possession did not happen all that often in the gospels. However the Gospels basically cover a three year period of Jesus life (with the exception of his birth and the passage in Luke when he was twelve), and Jesus encounters and casts out several demons during this time (according to their account so did the seventy that Jesus sent out). Anyway, what do you guys think? Are demon possessions still as common as they were? If they are, why does the church as a whole not encounter these demon possessed people? If they are not, why are they not?


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## Anton Bruckner

The argument that credible theologians follow is that during special moments in history where God acts directly by manifesting His sovereign power, He willingly allows for the manifestation of demonic powers to glorify Himself while vanquishing them. I tend to agree with this, since we see during the time of Moses whereby God wrought great signs and wonders we likewise see the counterfeit which deceived the heathen nations manifesting itself likewise in Pharaoh's court. The same goes for the time of Jesus who is the ultimate prophet in the line of Moses. More knowledgeable people can expound on this.


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## Calvibaptist

Ditto above. The time of Jesus was a special time, when Satan was working his hardest to discredit Christ. God also "allowed" Satan a little extra rope to hang himself, while Jesus showed his authority over demonic powers.

Another explanation that I have heard is that we *do* have as much demon possession today. But we explain it as psychological disorders and medicate the possessed and put them in asylums.


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## govols

They are in politics now.


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## Blueridge Believer

govols said:


> They are in politics now.




Good one brother!


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## Ivan

Calvibaptist said:


> Another explanation that I have heard is that we *do* have as much demon possession today. But we explain it as psychological disorders and medicate the possessed and put them in asylums.



I believe this to be true. We are one of the most medicated, I dare say, overmedicated people in the world. 



govols said:


> They are in politics now.



Well, that too!


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## BobVigneault

Demons can afford to be more overt in animistic cultures. This is why we hear so many stories from missionaries. Spiritual warfare takes on a much more subtle style in technological societies.

There definitely was more activity during Chirst's incarnation and ministry. Take a look at Luke 2 but try and step away for the Christmas card imagery.



> 13 And suddenly there was with the angel a multitude of the heavenly host praising God and saying, 14 “Glory to God in the highest,
> and on earth peace among those with whom he is pleased!”



This was not a ceremonial group of spirit beings, this was an enormous regiment of warriors. There was a military operation going on. We sing "Silent Night" but the fact that the Father dispatched a multitude of warriors indicates that something big was going on in the spirit realm. If I were a shepherd, I would be impressed if just one angel showed up. Three would be mind boggling. To insure that the insertion of the God-baby took place in space and time required a huge army of the most powerful fighters in creation.

This, to me, is an indication of the increased spiritual activity that was just then hitting the world and would continue until the church foundations were set in place.

Amazingly Jesus told Pilate as preparations for his execution were being made -



> 53 Do you think that I cannot appeal to my Father, and he will at once send me more than twelve legions of angels? 54 But how then should the Scriptures be fulfilled, that it must be so?”



There's a picture, the hordes of demons had a plan in place and were carrying it out while 60,000 angels stood still with their swords sheathed, just watching.


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## Theogenes

OR...they all went to LAW school....


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## VictorBravo

Theogenes said:


> OR...they all went to LAW school....



Heh! I resemble that remark.


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## Scott

Demon possession recedes with the expansion of Christianity. As Christ conquers the land, demons flee. I will see if I can find some quotes later and post them. 

Christ's expansion also causes magic to cease. From Athanasius, On the Incarnation:


> Who, then, is this Christ and how great is He, Who by His Name and presence overshadows and confounds all things on every side, Who alone is strong against all and has filled the whole world with His teaching? Let the Greeks tell us, who mock at Him without stint or shame. If He is a man, how is it that one man has proved stronger than all those whom they themselves regard as gods, and by His own power has shown them to be nothing? If they call Him a magician, how is it that by a magician all magic is destroyed, instead of being rendered strong? Had He conquered certain magicians or proved Himself superior to one of them only, they might reasonably think that He excelled the rest only by His greater skill. But the fact is that His cross has vanquished all magic entirely and has conquered the very name of it.


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## BobVigneault

Cool quote Scott, I hadn't seen that before. Thanks.


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## Preach

While attending The Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, I had three professors share that in their opinion, they had personally encountered a demon possessed person (three separate encounters). One prof. was in Latin America. Another prof. was in South America. I don't remember where the third prof. was, but it was a third world country.


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## KMK

We must guard against judging the activity of the demonic solely on our own experiences in the Christianized west. It would stand to reason that with more preaching there would be less demonic activity. That means that areas with less preaching would have greater demonic activity, no?


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## Scott

KMK said:


> We must guard against judging the activity of the demonic solely on our own experiences in the Christianized west. It would stand to reason that with more preaching there would be less demonic activity. That means that areas with less preaching would have greater demonic activity, no?



Yes, that is the idea. That explains why reputable people come back from mission work with credible reports of demonic possession and activity and yet we see so little of the dramatic sorts here.


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## BobVigneault

My theory for why we were so targeted is because of my extended family's involvement in the occult. My dad and uncles, aunts and grandmother were all faith healers. There was divination, p0rnography, adultery, divorce. A hellish heritage that I vowed would stop with me and my family but I believe the numerous invitations and family sins lead to the demonic attack on my wife and especially on my two daughters.

I was not reformed in my thinking and really believed that Satan won some days and Jesus won other days depending on whether or not the saints were praying (got that from Frank Peretti, Neal Anderson, Mark Buber.)


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## Scott

BobVigneault said:


> My theory for why we were so targeted is because of my extended family's involvement in the occult. My dad and uncles, aunts and grandmother were all faith healers. There was divination, p0rnography, adultery, divorce. A hellish heritage that I vowed would stop with me and my family but I believe the numerous invitations and family sins lead to the demonic attack on my wife and especially on my two daughters.
> 
> I was not reformed in my thinking and really believed that Satan won some days and Jesus won other days depending on whether or not the saints were praying (got that from Frank Peretti, Neal Anderson, Mark Buber.)



While everything happens in accordance with God's decrees, from an earthly, or secondary cause, perspective, some demons cannot be defeated apart from prayer and fasting. Mark 9:29.


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## Jerusalem Blade

I like the explanation above regarding medication and incarceration in psychiatric institutions. I think there is plenty of demon possession in the west, but we use _chemical restraints_ (the clinical terminology) to bind those who appear, that or electro- or insulin-shock "therapy" to so scramble the nervous system that what is in the soul cannot be expressed.

There are many tormented souls who pine away in misery in the caves of the psych wards. May God have mercy on them.

Especially in the 60s (or even in the present) drug cultures where psychedelic / sorcerous potions were ingested, there were numerous cases of such satanic invasion of people. The drug-use realm (note I include grass despite some folks at PB denying it) can be called "the satanic wavelength". We open the door of our spirits to that realm and those things may come in!

No doubt at all that in primitive societies it is more openly prevalent

We legalize drugs and _we_ will see more of it.


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## KMK

Jerusalem Blade said:


> We legalize drugs and _we_ will see more of it.



Interesting bit of wisdom from 'the hoary head'.


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## VictorBravo

Jerusalem Blade said:


> I like the explanation above regarding medication and incarceration in psychiatric institutions. I think there is plenty of demon possession in the west, but we use _chemical restraints_ (the clinical terminology) to bind those who appear, that or electro- or insulin-shock "therapy" to so scramble the nervous system that what is in the soul cannot be expressed.
> 
> There are many tormented souls who pine away in misery in the caves of the psych wards. May God have mercy on them.
> 
> Especially in the 60s (or even in the present) drug cultures where psychedelic / sorcerous potions were ingested, there were numerous cases of such satanic invasion of people. The drug-use realm (note I include grass despite some folks at PB denying it) can be called "the satanic wavelength". We open the door of our spirits to that realm and those things may come in!
> 
> No doubt at all that in primitive societies it is more openly prevalent
> 
> We legalize drugs and _we_ will see more of it.



I'd add (and this is really nothing more than a hunch) that the obsession with UFOs and alien abductions are related too. Maybe the "repressed memory" phenomenon recovered by hypnosis is similar. I sometimes think that the little aliens are merely recycled trolls and fairies from an earlier age. When people get immersed into odd and mysterious things, absent from the shield and protection of faith, odd things may well come to them.


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## shackleton

I thought the Reformed idea for there not being people possessed by demons was that the devil is bound. But, maybe this is just from the Amillinialism view of eschatology?


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## BobVigneault

I'm of the interpretation that Satan 'bound' means that he cannot deceive entire nations as he did before he was bound.


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## MrMerlin777

BobVigneault said:


> I'm of the interpretation that Satan 'bound' means that he cannot deceive entire nations as he did before he was bound.



I heard Pastor William Harrell of Immanuel Presbyterian Church Norfolk VA discribe Satan being bound this way. Immagine a big dog on a chain and that chain is secured to a post in the ground. The dog still has a "circle of influence" but the chain will not allow the dog beyond that.


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## panta dokimazete

victorbravo said:


> I'd add (and this is really nothing more than a hunch) that the obsession with UFOs and alien abductions are related too. Maybe the "repressed memory" phenomenon recovered by hypnosis is similar. I sometimes think that the little aliens are merely recycled trolls and fairies from an earlier age. When people get immersed into odd and mysterious things, absent from the shield and protection of faith, odd things may well come to them.


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## govols

victorbravo said:


> I'd add (and this is really nothing more than a hunch) that the obsession with UFOs and alien abductions are related too. Maybe the "repressed memory" phenomenon recovered by hypnosis is similar. I sometimes think that the little aliens are merely recycled trolls and fairies from an earlier age. When people get immersed into odd and mysterious things, absent from the shield and protection of faith, odd things may well come to them.



Just don't go bashing Big Foot. He's for REAL!


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## VictorBravo

govols said:


> victorbravo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd add (and this is really nothing more than a hunch) that the obsession with UFOs and alien abductions are related too. Maybe the "repressed memory" phenomenon recovered by hypnosis is similar. I sometimes think that the little aliens are merely recycled trolls and fairies from an earlier age. When people get immersed into odd and mysterious things, absent from the shield and protection of faith, odd things may well come to them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just don't go bashing Big Foot. He's for REAL!
Click to expand...


No, I'd never bash Big Foot. He's too big!

I once apparently caused a Big Foot scare, though. It was in Butte Montana, my first year of college, winter, and I decided to leave my dorm to camp on the hill above Montana Tech. It was 40 below zero and I had a huge Air Force surplus down sleeping bag strapped to my back and home-made snowshoes for the hike.

As I climbed the hill, dogs started barking and lights from some houses came on. People peered out into the darkness but it was too cold for anyone to come out. That night the wind picked up and blew snow onto my tracks.

So I came down the next morning for an uneventful breakfast in the dorm cafeteria. The day after that, however, the Montana Standard had a local news item about a Big Foot sighting in the area. It showed a picture of my tracks heading up the hill.

I kept quiet.


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## govols

Too funny.


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## KMK

*Parable of the wheat and tares*

I was reading this today and thought about this thread.

Matt 13:24,25



> Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: *But while men slept*, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.



The wicked one sows his seed in the cover of darkness. I wonder as our nation plunges itself deeper and deeper into darkness if we will see a rise in demonic activity.


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## No Longer A Libertine

govols said:


> They are in politics now.


They were always there, they simply never left, remember the pigs Christ cast demons into? They were politicians.


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## 21st Century Calvinist

I have heard it said that in the West we see little direct demonic activity because Satan has many other ways of binding people in our "free" society.


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## lwadkins

Aren't the Catholic church exorcists taking care of the demons? Wasn't there a movie?


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## kvanlaan

Um, is it just an odd coincidence that that last post of yours was your 666th? Get me an old priest and a young priest!


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## BobVigneault

Hmmmmm, somebody get a hold of Lon and tell him to post anything. A hello, the weather report, I don't care just post something.


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## DTK

no1special18 said:


> I was asked by a kid the other day about demon possession -- he wanted to know if it was real -- so ofcourse I told him it was real, but I have had something on my mind since he asked the question. Why, in the gospels, is demon possession not all that uncommon, and today we hardly ever see cases of demon possesion. At first I thought that maybe demon possession did not happen all that often in the gospels. However the Gospels basically cover a three year period of Jesus life (with the exception of his birth and the passage in Luke when he was twelve), and Jesus encounters and casts out several demons during this time (according to their account so did the seventy that Jesus sent out). Anyway, what do you guys think? Are demon possessions still as common as they were? If they are, why does the church as a whole not encounter these demon possessed people? If they are not, why are they not?



You may or may not find the following post helpful. I think there was a definite reason for an unusual stirring up of demonic activity in the days of our Lord's flesh, as well as afterward in the ministry of the apostles.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/i-need-definition-demon-possession-13978/

DTK


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## JoeRe4mer

no1special18 said:


> I was asked by a kid the other day about demon possession -- he wanted to know if it was real -- so ofcourse I told him it was real, but I have had something on my mind since he asked the question. Why, in the gospels, is demon possession not all that uncommon, and today we hardly ever see cases of demon possesion. At first I thought that maybe demon possession did not happen all that often in the gospels. However the Gospels basically cover a three year period of Jesus life (with the exception of his birth and the passage in Luke when he was twelve), and Jesus encounters and casts out several demons during this time (according to their account so did the seventy that Jesus sent out). Anyway, what do you guys think? Are demon possessions still as common as they were? If they are, why does the church as a whole not encounter these demon possessed people? If they are not, why are they not?



I would say that the most important thing about the demon possession portion of the Gosple's is to understand _why_ they are there in the first place. Obviously God allowed them to happen in order to teach us somthing about Christ. Without getting into all the specifics I would say the main point to them is to show us the power of Christ over evil. 
As to the question of _modern manifestations_ I am VERY sceptical of them to say the least.


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## BobVigneault

Ouch, ouch my friend. Well, if it was up to me to choose I guess I'll take the mental problem for myself but I do hope you're wrong. Of course I've seen the modern manifestations that USE mental problems and bad theology as well. 



JoeRe4mer said:


> As to the question of modern manifestations I am VERY sceptical. Most who experince them are either suffering from a mental problem or are brianwashed by bad theology.


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## JoeRe4mer

BobVigneault said:


> Ouch, ouch my friend. Well, if it was up to me to choose I guess I'll take the mental problem for myself but I do hope you're wrong. Of course I've seen the modern manifestations that USE mental problems and bad theology as well.
> 
> 
> 
> JoeRe4mer said:
> 
> 
> 
> As to the question of modern manifestations I am VERY sceptical. Most who experince them are either suffering from a mental problem or are brianwashed by bad theology.
Click to expand...


Well i edited my first post about 2 minutes after I put it up since I didnt want to insult anybody, however you quoted _before_ my edit went through  . 

To be honest I still think 99.99% of people that claim to have seen this stuff are probably just being caught up in the hype so to speak, but I should have chosen my original words more carefully so as not to insult my brothers in the Lord which is why I edited. My apologies if I insulted you.


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## BobVigneault

Not insulted at all Joe. I won't share a beer with just anyone my friend. So if I give you the  icon, that means I'd gladly sit down and share a beer with you. Of course if you do not imbibe then those are two frosty mugs of sweet tea. This is a tricky topic and we must be cautious in approaching it. Your skepticism is certainly a cautious and therefore a safe approach and most usefull in 99% of the stories we hear. As we get outside of western culture and parts of Lancaster, PA that % drops pretty quickly.


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## lwadkins

BobVigneault said:


> Hmmmmm, somebody get a hold of Lon and tell him to post anything. A hello, the weather report, I don't care just post something.



Hehe, just saw this Bob.


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## BJClark

I don't know why people think demon possession isn't alive and well here in America today..
we have many who have moved here from other countries who are deep into occult practices..
that bring these things with them.

but even looking at all the false teachers that abound in so-called churches today, these men may not be
physically possessed by demons..they are certainly being influenced by demonic forces.

and I agree with the others who say that many of these people may be locked up in mental hospitals, 
but doctors today are so far from Christ, trusting in their drug's and their 'worldly' knowledge they are
blinded to it, instead of callling things sin, they call them mental disorders, or diseases..

How many people here actually go visit the mentally ill in these hospitals? How many have actually been to one?


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## beej6

I will be the exception to the rule here - I know I am not the only Reformed mental health professional in existence, but it's probably a smaller club than the Reconstructionists at this point. Some of you may believe I am literally playing devil's advocate.

I don't believe in demon possession, though as pointed out above, it is theoretically possible in cultures or peoples that have not yet heard the Gospel. There is a much more simple explanation of the evils responsible for our behavior - sin. Is that talked about much in mental hospitals? Depends on the person. I have spoken with both Christians and non-Christians about the idea of sin (e.g. rebellion), but I wouldn't begin there with a person who may not even be in their right mind to start.

I would separate demon possession from belief in the occult - that certainly is present. Maybe I am too concrete and shouldn't separate the two. I suppose by 'demon possession' I mean the classic person who appears to be so out of control of their behavior, as someone high on PCP. Substance abuse itself is so prevalent, which is yet another manifestation of sin.


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## KMK

BobVigneault said:


> Ouch, ouch my friend. Well, if it was up to me to choose I guess I'll take the mental problem for myself but I do hope you're wrong. Of course I've seen the modern manifestations that USE mental problems and bad theology as well.



 

Seriously, is it possible to hear demons without actually seeing them?


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## BJClark

beej6;



> I will be the exception to the rule here - I know I am not the only Reformed mental health professional in existence, but it's probably a smaller club than the Reconstructionists at this point. Some of you may believe I am literally playing devil's advocate.



I believe you would be correct, it is a small club. 



> I don't believe in demon possession, though as pointed out above, it is theoretically possible in cultures or peoples that have not yet heard the Gospel.



Why wouldn't it possible in societies that have heard the gospel?

I guess, I'm questioning more what makes us think that just because many here in the west don't acknowledge it as possible--automatically means it's not possible.

Could it be more, that because so many don't acknowledge the possibility at all, because we have the gospel, that they won't/don't even consider the possiblity? 

And why does it make one Charismatic because they believe demon possession is still possible today? Have so many forgotten our battle is not against flesh and blood?

Eph 6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high [places]. 

I seen a commercial the other night for a new show coming out about those who claim to communicate with the dead--isn't that a spirit of divination? And these people aren't in a mental hospital they are on national TV, making a name for themselves.

Act 16:16 And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possessed with a spirit of divination met us, which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying: 



> There is a much more simple explanation of the evils responsible for our behavior - sin. Is that talked about much in mental hospitals? Depends on the person. I have spoken with both Christians and non-Christians about the idea of sin (e.g. rebellion), but I wouldn't begin there with a person who may not even be in their right mind to start.



I'm curious, what is their 'right' mind? If they are lost, isn't their 'right' mind bound in sin? (just asking)



> I would separate demon possession from belief in the occult - that certainly is present. Maybe I am too concrete and shouldn't separate the two. I suppose by 'demon possession' I mean the classic person who appears to be so out of control of their behavior, as someone high on PCP. Substance abuse itself is so prevalent, which is yet another manifestation of sin.



What would be the out of control behavior? 

schizophrenic? emotional blunting, intellectual deterioration, social isolation, disorganized speech and behavior, delusions, and hallucinations. 

If I look at the description of this disease..I see..things which all deal with a lack of the Holy Spirit and the fruits thereof...Love, joy, peace, patience, gentleness, goodness, self-control, faith, meekness...

They may not be able to think clearly. 
They may not know the difference between what is real and what is not real. 
They may have trouble managing emotions. 
They may have a hard time making decisions. 
They may not relate well to other people. 

They may hear or see things that are not there. 
They may feel as if they are being watched. 
They may experience a change in self-care or personal appearance. 
They may experience a change in personality. 
They may feel angry or fearful toward loved ones. 
They may act in ways that are strange or out of place. 
They may develop an extreme focus on religion or the occult. 

Looking at the second list, hearing/seeing things which are not there, could it be a demon they are hearing and seeing? Could it be a demon that is watching them? could it be the demonic forces bringing about the personality changes, also causing them to act in ways that are strange or out of place?

If they are demon possessed what might their appearance become?

So why shouldn't/couldn't we consider it to at least be a possibility?


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## BobVigneault

During one of the so-called 'deliverance' sessions involving one of my daughters a voice spoke to me that only I heard telling me to stop the other's from praying. 

Someday I should post some of the experiences and let you guys figure out what was going on.

In this particular instance, a lady who was supposedly 'sensitive' to spirits felt that a demon had attached itself to an internal organ in my daughter. She named off different organs while the pastor and another friend and my self had our hands on my daughter. The pastor would speak to the demon that was attached to said organs. When he addressed the demon attached to her kidneys my daughter screamed a horrible scream and flew up off of the couch. The three of us tried to hold her down. She sounded like she was being torn in half. I tried to comfort her but she continued to scream. Finally she grabbed both sides of my face and her whole countenance changed, her eyes met mine, only it didn't seem like my daughters eyes at all, and a voice said, "Stop them, you must stop them". I heard it clearly though her lips never moved. We quit at that point until a later date.

I've said before, I don't believe the deliverance was doing anything. The demons do these things just to keep us in the 'game'.

It was at a later attempt that the pastor was going through the house anointing the door posts with oil and praying a 'hedge' in each room that I saw the face again. My daughter from the previous 'deliverance' would turn and look at me and her face would change to an evil grin. This became a tip off that the demon was moving to another room. The craziest thing was, my other daughter had never shown any sign of demonization and was just staying out of the way. As we began to pray for my tormented daughter she finally relaxed and appeared to be at peace. I looked up the stairs and my other daughter now had that same evil grin on her face. Over the course of the next hour it kept jumping back and forth between them and would always broadcast the jump with that same turn of the head and evil grin. When we finally cornered it, my daughter who had never been plagued, had place glasses of water around her bed and sprinkled herbs on her bed, she sat in the middle and she had drawn pentagrams on both her hands. When we asked her why she said it was to keep evil spirits away.

This daughter had never shown any interest in the occult or magick or anything similar. Now, how do you explain this?

These are just a couple of countless experiences we had. We were not pentecostals or given over to emotionalism and we certainly weren't looking for demons behind every shadow.




KMK said:


> Seriously, is it possible to hear demons without actually seeing them?


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## lwadkins

I confess i do not find humor in the actions of Satan's legions. My humor is reserved for the idea that a demon is behind every sinful action of every human being.


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## Dena

Bob, I literally could not get rid of goosebumps during the ENTIRE reading of your post.


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## Dr Mike Kear

I've been attending the Fall Bible Conference at Emmanuel Baptist Church in Enid, Oklahoma this week. The speaker is Dr. Sam Storms. Tonight he will be speaking on the subject of *"Praying for Deliverance and Defeat of the Devil." *You can watch the service live via the internet (7:00 PM Central Time) at *Emmanuel Live*

I'm interested in hearing the perspective of Dr. Storms, who is both a charismatic and a strong Calvinist.


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## BobVigneault

Dr Mike Kear said:


> I'm interested in hearing the perspective of Dr. Storms, who is both a charismatic and a strong Calvinist.



Whoa! Isn't that like a square circle???


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## Dr Mike Kear

BobVigneault said:


> Whoa! Isn't that like a square circle???



Maybe. Dr. Storms is very much in the same vein as John Piper and D. A. Carson, both of whom are Refomed and continuationists.


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## KMK

BobVigneault said:


> Dr Mike Kear said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm interested in hearing the perspective of Dr. Storms, who is both a charismatic and a strong Calvinist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Whoa! Isn't that like a square circle???
Click to expand...


Are you aware of this organization? http://www.sovereigngraceministries.org/


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## Dr Mike Kear

> Are you aware of this organization? Sovereign Grace Ministries



Indeed! C.J. Mahaney is also one of the four guys in Together for the Gospel


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