# PCUSA Split - ANOTHER denomination?!



## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 10, 2012)

The Good News: More faithful churches are about the leave the PCUSA, apparently.

The Bad News: Are they that great? Apparently the EPC is too conservative for them!

My questions:
1) Do they embrace neo-Orthodox liberalism since they insist on keeping the entire Book of Confessions, which includes the not-so-great Barmen Declaration, and the abominable Confession of 1967?
2) They insist on recognizing women's ordination, but hasn't the EPC gone out of their way to welcome PCUSA churches with woman preachers and elders? Does this "New Reformed Body" want to *mandate it* like the PCUSA does? I guess they will exclude complementarian congregations?

Do they want to get "back to Scripture and the Confessions", or back to a time when things weren't quite as liberal?


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## Marrow Man (Jan 10, 2012)

It's because there just weren't quite enough letters in the Presbyterian alphabet soup.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 10, 2012)

PointyHaired Calvinist said:


> The Good News: More faithful churches are about the leave the PCUSA, apparently.
> 
> The Bad News: Are they that great? Apparently the EPC is too conservative for them!
> 
> ...



This:



> back to a time when things weren't quite as liberal?


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## DMcFadden (Jan 10, 2012)

I don't get it. If you can swallow the '67 confession, why would you think that the PCUSA is too liberal?


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## KMK (Jan 10, 2012)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> PointyHaired Calvinist said:
> 
> 
> > The Good News: More faithful churches are about the leave the PCUSA, apparently.
> ...



How do I find out which churches are on the list?


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jan 10, 2012)

*Really?!*

The Stated Clerk of the PCUSA says:



> We are working on regrouping and rediscovering our core theological identity and our core theological tradition.



Well, Mr. Detterman, look no further:



The Westminster Confession of Faith
The Westminster Larger Catechism 
The Westminster Shorter Catechism


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## J. Dean (Jan 10, 2012)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> The Stated Clerk of the PCUSA says:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


And, I would add:

4-The Bible

Compromise is simply sinning on the installment plan. To try to be a "little less heretical" would be rather funny if it weren't so sad to see.


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## Edward (Jan 10, 2012)

Apparently First Presbyterian in Orlando was one of the leaders of the new group, but when it looked like the Presbytery might block its escape, they had to make a move more quickly than planned, thus forcing them toward the EPC. 

If folks want to pray for them, their vote is January 29.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 11, 2012)

I remember some folks a few years ago talking about re-forming the PCUS. Maybe this is what they're onto?


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## Weston Stoler (Jan 11, 2012)

All we need, another unorthodox denomination that isn't as unorthodox as the PCUSA.......


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jan 12, 2012)

Weston Stoler said:


> All we need, another unorthodox denomination that isn't as unorthodox as the PCUSA.......



It does baffle the mind. "We're against ordaining homosexuals, but the ordination of women is fine." On what BASIS can you draw that line?! You either affirm the authority of Scripture and declare the ordination women and homosexuals as against God's Word *or* you don't and acknowledge that whatever lines you draw in the sand are based solely on your own opinions and preferences. 

So essentially, these "conservatives" aren't any better than their liberal counterparts because they have arrived at their positions in the same fashion as those the're opposing - "whatever we feel is right, is right!"

At the end of the day, these people have an Authority problem that the've yet to address. And untill they affirm the Bible's authority and rediscover their confessional identity, the're doomed to lurch right back into what the're trying to escape from.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 12, 2012)

Also, one wonders if some of these same churches were in the past complicit with their presbyteries and denomination in taking away church property from more faithful congregations who left long before now? Whatever the case, this is true: "Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness?.... Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you...." 2 Corinthians 6:14, 17.


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## Rufus (Jan 12, 2012)

I might be the only person here that doesn't mind this, I'd rather have a denomination that isn't that great but might be a haven for _some_ truth over a denomination with little or no truth. Further down the line the new denomination might fancy itself to take a serious look at the Scriptures and the confessions once again. Now on the other hand I would be happier if they 1) preferred the EPC and 2) rejected women's ordination.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 14, 2012)

Any talk - from those who may be in the know - of these churches leaving for, say, the RCA or the CRC? Both denominations seem to be just what the "too liberal for the EPC" folks are looking for. Or would there be a problem since at least the RCA is on good terms with the PCUSA?


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 20, 2012)

Update - More Presbyterian Alphabet Soup!

ECO - Evangelical Covenant Order of Presbyterians


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Jan 20, 2012)

E-COP or E-COOP does not really strike me as a very well thought out acronym. But they didn't ask me.


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## Wayne (Jan 20, 2012)

Letters to the editor, over at The Layman, are interesting:

Letters to the Editor


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## Edward (Jan 20, 2012)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> E-COP ... does not really strike me as a very well thought out acronym. But they didn't ask me.



But perhaps a decent parental control or anti-virus software.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 21, 2012)

They're making a big deal about using "ECO" as their acronym -



> "The acronym ECO also speaks to our commitment to strengthen the “ecosystems” of local churches, providing the resources needed to grow, thrive, and reproduce."


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Jan 21, 2012)

PointyHaired Calvinist said:


> They're making a big deal about using "ECO" as their acronym -
> 
> 
> 
> > "The acronym ECO also speaks to our commitment to strengthen the “ecosystems” of local churches, providing the resources needed to grow, thrive, and reproduce."



They don't want anyone involved that did not vote for Al Gore!  After all that planning, I expected a better acronym.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jan 21, 2012)

"ECO"?! Really.

A name meant to evoke the environmentalist agenda of the left hardly gives the idea that this is a "conservative" alternative to the PCUSA. Just because two liberals refuse to hold hands while going over a cliff doesn't make their fates any different.


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## Mr. Valiant-for-truth (Jan 31, 2012)

Edward said:


> Apparently First Presbyterian in Orlando was one of the leaders of the new group, but when it looked like the Presbytery might block its escape, they had to make a move more quickly than planned, thus forcing them toward the EPC.
> 
> If folks want to pray for them, their vote is January 29.



Overwhelming vote in favor of leaving:
The Layman Online


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## jogri17 (Feb 1, 2012)

PointyHaired Calvinist said:


> Do they want to get "back to Scripture and the Confessions", or back to a time when things weren't quite as liberal?


 I first want to say I stand with them in publically standing against homosexuality as a lifestyle or natural inclination as fundamentally sinful and sin of which repentance is demanded. 

Second, as a new body without question as moralistic Barthians show their hand within, they will as a church be forced to make decisions as a church. Time will show to what extent this new body is orthodox on evangelical doctrines let alone Reformed ones.


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