# Decline in the public reading of the Scripture?



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

Has there been a decline in the public reading of the Scripture as a part of public worship? 

Coming from a Scottish Presbyterian backround and moving to the continental reformed side, it is sadly evident that there has been a large decline in this duty. 

Why? 

or is my observation false? 

I have been told that it is too much of a burden on the minister to do that much reading, or that it might detract from his sermon. 

What do you think? Are ministers today lax and remiss in this holy duty? 
If not, are we then consigned to hearing only certain parts of the scripture publicly read? 



The Directory for Public Worship states:



> Of Publick Reading of the Holy Scriptures.
> READING of the word in the congregation, being part of the publick worship of
> God, (wherein we acknowledge our dependence upon him, and subjection to
> him,) and one mean sanctified by him for the edifying of his people, is to be
> ...


----------



## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2008)

My home church reads 2 chapters (one in am and 1 in pm) every Sunday.


----------



## APuritansMind (Nov 5, 2008)

I read (as an elder) a chapter from the OT and a chapter from the NT during worship each Lord's Day and our Pastor leads in prayer, singing, and preaching. I have preached only twice, but during those occassions our pastor took the readings. 

I can see how reading two entire chapters (maybe 5 or 10 minutes of reading) could strain the pastor's voice over time when he is also preaching for 30-60 minutes and singing.


----------



## jfschultz (Nov 5, 2008)

I would like to see more reading of chapters in worship. There have been a couple of times where Psalm 46 was read and it was Psalm 46:1,10:

God is our refuge and strength,
a very present help in trouble.

Be still, and know that I am God.
I will be exalted among the nations,
I will be exalted in the earth!

Why do we need to be reminded to "Be still, and know that I am God" but for the calamities in verses 2-6?


----------



## Kim G (Nov 5, 2008)

My former church (Indy-Fundy Baptist) read one verse to start every service as a call to worship, then read the text for the sermon in between a couple of songs.

At my current church, we have two Scripture readings in the AM service (besides the text of the sermon), and those readings are usually at least a chapter long each. The afternoon service includes at least one Scripture reading of the same length.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> My home church reads 2 chapters (one in am and 1 in pm) every Sunday.



Are the chapters consecutive or random? 

Does it matter?


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

jfschultz said:


> I would like to see more reading of chapters in worship. There have been a couple of times where Psalm 46 was read and it was Psalm 46:1,10:
> 
> God is our refuge and strength,
> a very present help in trouble.
> ...



Good point -- Stay on your toes-- many verses in the singing of psalms are left out too, in my experience.


----------



## toddpedlar (Nov 5, 2008)

Joshua said:


> That Church at which I've been attending has consecutive chapters (one from the OT, one from the NT) read in each service (so that equals 4 Chapters each Lord's Day), attended with brief exposition of each. It is very helpful and edifying to have this _along with_ the sermons preached.



There's a wonderful little book by Ernest Springer (out of print from Old Paths) called "Many Verses: The Importance of Reading the Scriptures in Reformed Worship" that I found very helpful on this issue. Quite convicting actually, when read together with the Westminster Assembly's directions concerning the same. It's a grievous thing to sit through a worship service at a church wherein the only Scripture read is but a trifle here and a dollop there. What does that say to a new person in the pew about what our lives are to be grounded upon?


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

Joshua said:


> That Church at which I've been attending has consecutive chapters (one from the OT, one from the NT) read in each service (so that equals 4 Chapters each Lord's Day), attended with brief exposition of each. It is very helpful and edifying to have this _along with_ the sermons preached.



Wow Josh, now that is what I"m talking about! Is that a Presbyterian Reformed Church? 

Is your minister showing signs of being worn out?


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

APuritansMind said:


> I read (as an elder) a chapter from the OT and a chapter from the NT during worship each Lord's Day and our Pastor leads in prayer, singing, and preaching. I have preached only twice, but during those occassions our pastor took the readings.



Mike, this would follow very close to the Directory. "Such as intend the ministry may read" Sounds great. 



> I can see how reading two entire chapters (maybe 5 or 10 minutes of reading) could strain the pastor's voice over time when he is also preaching for 30-60 minutes and singing.



Maybe, but hey, that is the ministers calling.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

How about you OPC and PCA guys? 

Have you left off this part of the Directory in your public worship service?


----------



## okcalvin (Nov 5, 2008)

RTaron said:


> How about you OPC and PCA guys?
> 
> Have you left off this part of the Directory in your public worship service?


We read either a chapter or lengthy pericope from OT and NT in the AM and PM services. We read through the Scriptures successively.

We also infuse all public prayers and confessions of sin with Scripture, ala Matthew Henry's Method of Prayer. Our services drip Bible. 

This all came about when I was rebuked by my late Methodist mother-in-law, who complained that her services had more Scripture than ours (at the time, not much more than a call to worship and the text of the sermon). We reread the DFW and re-looked the reformed liturgies. Terry Johnson's book on worship is VERY helpful as well.

John
-----

John Owen Butler
Pastor-teacher
Beal Heights Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Lawton, OK
Home


----------



## APuritansMind (Nov 5, 2008)

RTaron said:


> APuritansMind said:
> 
> 
> > I read (as an elder) a chapter from the OT and a chapter from the NT during worship each Lord's Day and our Pastor leads in prayer, singing, and preaching. I have preached only twice, but during those occassions our pastor took the readings.
> ...



Rick,

I agree, and our pastor would agree also. Maybe a little background would be helpful. We are a reformed baptist congregation, and I believe the greater advantage (other than saving the pastor's voice) is having another elder before the congregation, in a regular fashion, leading in congregational worship. Most of our members are only 3 or 4 years removed from a SBC background (i.e deacon board, walking the aisle, etc.). 

On a personal note, being before the congregation helps me in discerning God's plan for me (but that's another topic and matter for much prayer).

Blessings,

Mike


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

Great testimony John. 

Successively---that is the word I needed, not consecutively. 

thanks.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

> =APuritansMind;489982
> On a personal note, being before the congregation helps me in discerning God's plan for me (but that's another topic and matter for much prayer).



No problem Mike, thanks for the explanation. 
Intending the ministry is a matter of much prayer.


----------



## jaybird0827 (Nov 5, 2008)

The public reading of Scripture is an element of our service. Our Pastor reads an entire chapter, or occasionally part of a chapter if it's a very long chapter. He also frequently gives a brief discourse such as an outline or a summary of the passage read; sometimes prior to the reading, sometimes following.

During one year when we were members of a different evangelical Presbyterian denomination, the minister gradually slipped into the practice of reading passages related to the sermon during the sermon as a substitute for the public reading of Scripture. Concerned congregants went to the Session about it, and the public reading was soon restored to services.


----------



## KMK (Nov 5, 2008)

jaybird0827 said:


> The public reading of Scripture is an element of our service. Our Pastor reads an entire chapter, or occasionally part of a chapter if it's a very long chapter. He also frequently gives a brief discourse such as an outline or a summary of the passage read; sometimes prior to the reading, sometimes following.
> 
> During one year when we were members of a different evangelical Presbyterian denomination, the minister gradually slipped into the practice of reading passages related to the sermon during the sermon as a substitute for the public reading of Scripture. *Concerned congregants went to the Session about it, and the public reading was soon restored to services.*



I wonder who the 'rabble rousing' congregant was...


----------



## Barnpreacher (Nov 5, 2008)

In the baptist churches I have always been associated with this has not been a common practice.

Not long ago I had a local PCA minister in for a Bible Conference and he implored us to begin reading through the Bible as a part of our Lord's Day worship. I took his advice as we now have public reading from the Scriptures each Sunday. We also have a congregational affirmation of faith where we will quote things like the Apostle's Creed or parts of the WCF or LBCF together.

Also, before our Sunday School services begin we go through about 4 of the Shorter Catechism questions with the Scripture proofs as a group.


----------



## jaybird0827 (Nov 5, 2008)

KMK said:


> I wonder who the 'rabble rousing' congregant was...


 
I'll never tell!


----------



## RTaron (Nov 5, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> In the baptist churches I have always been associated with this has not been a common practice.
> 
> Not long ago I had a local PCA minister in for a Bible Conference and he implored us to begin reading through the Bible as a part of our Lord's Day worship. I took his advice as we now have public reading from the Scriptures each Sunday. *We also have a congregational affirmation of faith *where we will quote things like the Apostle's Creed or parts of the WCF or LBCF together.
> 
> Also, before our Sunday School services begin we go through about 4 of the Shorter Catechism questions with the Scripture proofs as a group.



Thanks for weighing in Ryan. I admire that PCA minister for *Imploring* you in this duty. Good word. I would also challenge you to take the next step and work your way through the whole bible in succession. You will find it to be a great blessing to all. I assume this is what you do at home in family worship. So, then, publicly as well.  

For some reason the Westminster divines did not see the need to require a congregational affirmation of faith, I think that is included in the minister's prayer and in the congreation adding their Amen to the prayer.


----------



## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2008)

APuritansMind said:


> I read (as an elder) a chapter from the OT and a chapter from the NT during worship each Lord's Day and our Pastor leads in prayer, singing, and preaching. I have preached only twice, but during those occassions our pastor took the readings.
> 
> I can see how reading two entire chapters (maybe 5 or 10 minutes of reading) could strain the pastor's voice over time when he is also preaching for 30-60 minutes and singing.



We have a specially selected reader to read these chapters so that the Pastor can save his voice. Ours was a man who worked in radio and who read the chapters prior so that the delivery was very clear and smooth.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 5, 2008)

jaybird0827 said:


> The public reading of Scripture is an element of our service. Our Pastor reads an entire chapter, or occasionally part of a chapter if it's a very long chapter. He also frequently gives a brief discourse such as an outline or a summary of the passage read; sometimes prior to the reading, sometimes following.



 Ours too. The Presbyterian Reformed Church is one of few denominations today that adheres to the Westminster Directory of Public Worship.


----------



## Augusta (Nov 5, 2008)

Our Pastors read a lot of scripture. They read chapters from the OT that have a bearing on the sermon text and then the whole chapter of whatever we are reading for the sermon text. We also do responsive reading from the Psalms. The Pastor does all the reading. Both (we have an assoc. Pastor) are great readers.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 6, 2008)

Tracy,
Your pastor has filled our pulpit in Bellingham on a few occasions. I have especially enjoyed Benjie's preaching. Thanks for sharing your way of reading and your pastor.

By the way, I never have been able to warm up to reading responsively. It is very distracting and difficult to manage the cadence and meaning at the same time. I wonder how that practice got started. There is probably a thread somewhere here on PB about responsive reading. No doubt Andrew would know.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 6, 2008)

RTaron said:


> By the way, I never have been able to warm up to reading responsively. It is very distracting and difficult to manage the cadence and meaning at the same time. I wonder how that practice got started. There is probably a thread somewhere here on PB about responsive reading. No doubt Andrew would know.



Here you go! 

http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/responsive-readings-they-westminsterian-they-biblical-29792/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/responsive-reading-rpw-26959/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/rpw-responsive-reading-8475/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/recitation-lords-prayer-36230/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/reading-word-public-worship-17646/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/rpw-reading-confessions-creeds-8358/


----------



## Pilgrim (Nov 6, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> In the baptist churches I have always been associated with this has not been a common practice.
> 
> Not long ago I had a local PCA minister in for a Bible Conference and he implored us to begin reading through the Bible as a part of our Lord's Day worship. I took his advice as we now have public reading from the Scriptures each Sunday. We also have a congregational affirmation of faith where we will quote things like the Apostle's Creed or parts of the WCF or LBCF together.
> 
> Also, before our Sunday School services begin we go through about 4 of the Shorter Catechism questions with the Scripture proofs as a group.



In the Presbyterian churches I have attended in the past I can't recall the public reading of scripture as envisioned in the OP ever being done. It may have been done in some I only visited once and I just don't recall, but it wasn't in any in which I ever attended regularly. However, I am acquainted with a Baptist church that apparently does read consecutive chapters each Lord's Day.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 6, 2008)

> I can't recall the public reading of scripture as envisioned in the OP ever being done.



This is the reaction that I got from my elders when I brought up the idea. "We have never heard of that ever being done." The minister was all for more reading, but change is often a slow moving thing. 

Traditionally in the Dutch Reformed circles, they read the ten commandments and the passage that the sermon will be on. Does anyone know if the practice of consecutive reading of the whole bible as a part of public worship was ever a reality in the Dutch Reformed Churches? Think CRC, PRC, NRC. FRC, OCRC. URC.


----------



## Pilgrim (Nov 6, 2008)

RTaron said:


> > I can't recall the public reading of scripture as envisioned in the OP ever being done.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What you describe as the Dutch Reformed practice is what was done in the OPC I attended for a few years. If I recall correctly there would also be a reading of some NT verses that proclaimed forgiveness of sins. The pastor preached in Dutch churches in NZ for several years, so perhaps this practice is influenced by his time in Dutch circles. I can't recall if the PCA I attended a few months ago read the Ten Commandments or not.


----------



## Augusta (Nov 6, 2008)

RTaron said:


> Tracy,
> Your pastor has filled our pulpit in Bellingham on a few occasions. I have especially enjoyed Benjie's preaching. Thanks for sharing your way of reading and your pastor.
> 
> By the way, I never have been able to warm up to reading responsively. It is very distracting and difficult to manage the cadence and meaning at the same time. I wonder how that practice got started. There is probably a thread somewhere here on PB about responsive reading. No doubt Andrew would know.



We have an established congregation that is very good at the responsive reading. There are always a few people who are either new or don't try but the in main everyone does very well.

Benji is a wonderful preacher right out of the box. Go NWTS!! I have heard reports of how impressed the group that examined him for ordination were.  The best thing about him is that his love for the Lord and his word and the gospel shows forth so brightly.


----------



## Calvibaptist (Nov 6, 2008)

Coming from a non-Reformed Baptist background, we would only have the passage of Scripture ready for the sermon by the Pastor. And that is how we started as a church.

But as we have gradually moved to the Reformed position, our Scripture reading has increased. Currently, we read from an entire Psalm as a call to worship, read a chapter per week through a book (currently Isaiah) and then read the passage for the sermon. Various elders read the first two passages and I (or whoever is preaching) read the sermon passage.

One thing we have tried to do often is teach the congregation why this is important. I will routinely review our order of worship for the congregation and give them the reasons behind what we do.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 7, 2008)

Calvibaptist said:


> > But as we have gradually moved to the Reformed position, our Scripture reading has increased. [snip] read a chapter per week through a book (currently Isaiah) and then read the passage for the sermon.
> 
> 
> I agree, you are following principle and wisdom outlined in the Directory.
> ...


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 7, 2008)

Rowland Ward writes (in Richard A. Muller and Rowland S. Ward, _Scripture and Worship: Biblical Interpretation & the Directory for Worship_, pp. 121-122):



> *Of Public Reading of the Holy Scriptures*
> 
> This section of the directory states that reading belongs to the ministerial office. The Scottish Church had been used to readers for the earlier part of the service. By the 1640s they were mainly men who had the ministry in view. The directory permits such to occasionally read and preach, if allowed by the presbytery. This was a concession compared to the norm of Reformed churches, judged by practice in Europe, but more strict than the Independent view. The Independents were in favor of greater lay participation; indeed, the Scots were fearful that the liberty granted to expound would provide an opportunity for lay preaching.
> 
> ...


----------



## RTaron (Nov 7, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Rowland Ward writes (in Richard A. Muller and Rowland S. Ward, _Scripture and Worship: Biblical Interpretation & the Directory for Worship_, pp. 121-122):
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 7, 2008)

RTaron said:


> Andrew, this sweeping assertion that they did not read as a distinct part of worship from to 1856 is really *hard to believe*.
> 
> If they would scruple to line out the psalms, which was against their normal practice, and that only a temporary requirement in the DPW, how could this direct requirement be widely absent?



I think the key phrase to note here in what Ward is saying (and please note that I am neither supporting nor arguing against his assertion or his wording of the asssertion but rather seeking to clarify) is "being swallowed up by expository comments." He is not saying that reading the Scriptures didn't happen. He is saying, I think, that the plain reading of Scriptures was "swallowed up" by expository comments so much so that it became a "double sermon," rather than a plain reading of Scriptures distinct from the preaching of the Word. Does that make sense?


----------



## Grace Alone (Nov 7, 2008)

Our pastor is reading through the whole Bible by reading one chapter each Sunday before the sermon. He is nearing the end of Exodus. Then for the sermon, he usually reads a full chapter of whatever book he is preaching in, plus many verses throughout the sermon. So we generally have two full chapters read to us during a service. He only says a couple of introductory sentences about the Exodus chapter he reads and of course gives an expository message on the chapter he reads for the sermon.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 7, 2008)

C.W. Baird (_Eutaxia, or the Presbyterian Liturgies: Historical Sketches_, 1856) and W.D. Maxwell (_An Outline of Christian Worship_, 1936) both comment on the 1856 recommendation of the Assembly and note the decline in reading as a distinct element of Scottish Presbyterian worship which preceded it.


----------



## RTaron (Nov 7, 2008)

Andrew yes, I see that makes sense. His emphasis is on the over abundance of comments. 

Thanks for the quote. And for those other links you posted. I read through some of them and found an interesting page by a Canadian Reformed minister defending their form of worship. 
The Beauty of Reformed Liturgy

He says:


> Although this reading of Scripture stems from Old Testament times, we do not propose to do it the same way, i.e., a continuous reading according to a one or three-year program. The minister selects the passages in harmony with his text and sermon. The rule should be at least two passages, one from the Old, one from the New Testament.



I think it would be crossing the line and becoming leagalistic to argue that this practice is wrong. However, I am curious to know if this was the standard practice of the continental churches during the reformation and following?


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 7, 2008)

Rick -- You are welcome. I'm glad that made sense. I have some thoughts on this (I think the Continental Reformed practice historically has favored lectio continua Scripture readings over lectio selecta albeit with certain exceptions to the rule such as the Ten Commandments or on the occasion of holy days) but I would think some Dutch members might want to weigh in here (I came across comments on this subject in book review by Danny Hyde, for instance) and perhaps comments on the outworkings of this historically in Continental Reformed worship. Meanwhile, there is also this recent blog post by Lane which may be of interest:

Lectio Continua Scripture Reading « Green Baggins


----------



## RTaron (Nov 7, 2008)

Right on Lectio Continua Scripture reading !! 

What's up Continental guys--- lets get with it! What is the problem?

(hoping to stir something up)


----------



## RTaron (Nov 9, 2008)

Thanks! to everyone who commented about their various reading practices. 

I learned a fancy word--- Lectio Contiua--- thanks to Green Baggens blog post.

Unless the Dutch guys have anything to say about why they don't Lectio Continua, I guess we are done here. 

My goal was to draw some attention to this important part of our worship and stir us all up to a more perfect way. 
I also thought I might learn something about why the practice is different in various churches. 

Have a great Lord's Day everyone!


----------

