# The translation of proper names



## Jan Ziska (Jan 21, 2009)

Hi,

I was wondering about why we translate verbs, nouns etc from the original languages to English, but leave the names of people and places untranslated. 

If the hebrews understood Joshua's name to mean 'saviour', why don't we translate his name in english as 'Saviour'?

Or if the people of Jesus' day understood the word 'Peter' to mean 'rock', why don't we translate his name as 'Rock'?


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## py3ak (Jan 21, 2009)

Well, it would be cumbersome to read, "And _Lo, a son_ went in the days of wheat harvest...." And hearing about the conflicts of Red and Supplanter would not have quite the same impact as Jacob and Esau.


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## TimV (Jan 21, 2009)

Just because a name has a meaning doesn't mean the spelling is the same. Your name is a perfect example. It means John, but it's spelled differently. My surname Vaughan means small in Welsh, but I don't go by Small anymore than you go by John. Look up Joshua in Strong's and see how many variations there are of the word, and the different meanings, related words, etc...


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## Ivan (Jan 21, 2009)

My name means (as well as the name, John) _"God's Gracious Gift"_. Believe me, that doesn't refer to me! My middle name is Roy...meaning King. If I thought I were a king it would be in my own mind. My surname is Schoen...meaning handsome or beautiful...let's not go there! LOL

I think it's a very good thing names are not translated....in the Bible or in our world today.


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## Mushroom (Jan 21, 2009)

My name, Bradford, means a wide, shallow river crossing. Always been shallow, and I'm getting wider with age, so if ya'll want to use that, I have no objections...


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## PresbyDane (Jan 21, 2009)

Well Martin means him that always whats to fight,(also in the realm of theological fighting) that is a pretty good name for me.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 21, 2009)

My name would then be:
The Laurel Crowned Well Bred Forest Dweller, Jr.

I think I will stick with non-translation.


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## PresbyDane (Jan 21, 2009)




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## Kim G (Jan 21, 2009)

Mine would be:

A Royal Fortress Field (Kimberly) of Grace and Favor (Ann) that Desires Helmet Protection (Guilliams, or Williams).


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## Theoretical (Jan 21, 2009)

I'm a Scotsman who I don't believe has any Scottish blood.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Jan 21, 2009)

Kim G said:


> Mine would be:
> 
> A Royal Fortress Field (Kimberly) of Grace and Favor (Ann) that Desires Helmet Protection (Guilliams, or Williams).



I am imagining teachers calling out a roll in class...


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## Ivan (Jan 21, 2009)

Theoretical said:


> I'm a Scotsman who I don't believe has any Scottish blood.



What kind of blood do you have?


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## MrMerlin777 (Jan 21, 2009)

Donald is celtic for "Ruler of the world". Jacobs is a form of Jacob meaning "supplanter", "trickster", or "liar".

I have good reason for not going by the translation of my name.

(Anyone happen to know what Wayne [my middle name] means?


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Jan 21, 2009)

I liked Pilgrims Progress but something I didn't like was the way the names were all things like "Helper" etc...


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## Ivan (Jan 21, 2009)

MrMerlin777 said:


> Donald is celtic for "Ruler of the world". Jacobs is a form of Jacob meaning "supplanter", "trickster", or "liar".
> 
> I have good reason for not going by the translation of my name.
> 
> (Anyone happen to know what Wayne [my middle name] means?



Wayne means "wagon builder or driver".


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## Theoretical (Jan 21, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Theoretical said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a Scotsman who I don't believe has any Scottish blood.
> ...


German, Finnish, Swedish, and English (25 Finn/25 Swede/50 German/Rest is very little). I suppose it's possible there might be some Scottish, but I don't believe so.


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## Ivan (Jan 21, 2009)

Theoretical said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> > Theoretical said:
> ...



So how did you determine you were a Scotsman...because your name is Scott?


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## Theoretical (Jan 21, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Theoretical said:
> 
> 
> > Ivan said:
> ...


 
Yes, that's at least what Scott supposedly means. Who knows, it's the internet.

Of course, my first name isn't the interesting one. It's the last name that makes things interesting ;-)


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## Ivan (Jan 22, 2009)

Theoretical said:


> Of course, my first name isn't the interesting one. It's the last name that makes things interesting ;-)



Yeah, General Hooker, Civil War....hmmm...yeah, I know.


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## Theoretical (Jan 22, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Theoretical said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, my first name isn't the interesting one. It's the last name that makes things interesting ;-)
> ...


Absolutely no relation to him, which means I get the "benefits" of the last name, without the actual history.


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## Jan Ziska (Jan 22, 2009)

yeah, ok, *besides* the fact that we aren't used to names having obvious meanings, is there any reason as to why the translators don't translate them?

It just seems very incomplete. Many times in the bible people had their names changed (Joshua, Abraham, Sarah, Paul etc etc) and the changes were significant and immediately obvious to the people at the time.

Who really thinks there is much of a difference between Abram and Abraham? They sound almost identical. God changed it for a reason though, and I think that would come across much clearer if the names were translated like everything else.


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## Kim G (Jan 22, 2009)

Jan Ziska said:


> Who really thinks there is much of a difference between Abram and Abraham? They sound almost identical. God changed it for a reason though, and I think that would come across much clearer if the names were translated like everything else.



My ESV Study Bible has footnotes that explain what the names mean. It's nice to know what they mean without getting confused by seeing it in the text over and over again.


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## he beholds (Jan 22, 2009)

Ivan said:


> My name means (as well as the name, John) _"God's Gracious Gift"_. Believe me, that doesn't refer to me! My middle name is Roy...meaning King. If I thought I were a king it would be in my own mind. My surname is Schoen...meaning handsome or beautiful...let's not go there! LOL
> 
> I think it's a very good thing names are not translated....in the Bible or in our world today.



OOPS. I name my children specifically for the translated effect! 
Tobiah=the Lord is good
Evangeline=bearer of good news
I hope my children grow to know and be their names!!



Jan Ziska said:


> yeah, ok, *besides* the fact that we aren't used to names having obvious meanings, is there any reason as to why the translators don't translate them?
> 
> It just seems very incomplete. Many times in the bible people had their names changed (Joshua, Abraham, Sarah, Paul etc etc) and the changes were significant and immediately obvious to the people at the time.
> 
> Who really thinks there is much of a difference between Abram and Abraham? They sound almost identical. God changed it for a reason though, and I think that would come across much clearer if the names were translated like everything else.



I definitely get what you are saying, but I wonder if their names were still names, or just nouns. Like if Peter was a name, then I think it should still be translated as a name. Peter does still mean Rock. So we are still calling him Rock, but we just aren't calling him it in English. 

My name, by the way, does mean my PB handle. 
Jessica means God beholds (as far as anyone can tell, anyway). I would not mind being called in day-to-day life, "he beholds," but I don't need to if I know what it means, I am being called that! And anytime we call our son, we are declaring the goodness of the Lord, even though we are saying it in Hebrew. And our daughter, we are calling her a bearer of good news (which we pray that she becomes), even though we are saying it in Greek.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 22, 2009)

he beholds said:


> OOPS. I name my children specifically for the translated effect!
> Tobiah=the Lord is good



Shweet! My (and my son's) middle name is Tobias, apparently chosen for the name's meaning. I am Yahwehs-Gift Yahweh-is-good Cheerful.


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