# Paganism



## scget5 (Oct 24, 2019)

How do you define Paganism?
Based on that definition how what is the problems with Paganism, and how common is Paganism in American Christianity?


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## Dachaser (Oct 24, 2019)

scget5 said:


> How do you define Paganism?
> Based on that definition how what is the problems with Paganism, and how common is Paganism in American Christianity?


Person who believes in more then naturalism, but base their view on reality as not holding to the true God.


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## RJ Spencer (Oct 24, 2019)

The word 'pagan' is very similar to the word 'heretic' to me. A pagan is someone that worships a God or gods other than the Sovereign God of the Bible. Pagans place more emphasis on man rather than on the sovereignty of God. One could even use the term 'christian paganism' to describe Roman Catholics, pelagianism/semi-pelagianism, and Charismatics. I would say that Paganism is more common in American Christianity than real Christianity is. All Pagans are heretics, but not quite all heretics are pagan. Man centered religion (paganism) is antichrist.

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## Tom Hart (Oct 24, 2019)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism


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## Tom Hart (Oct 24, 2019)

RJ Spencer said:


> The word 'pagan' is very similar to the word 'heretic' to me... All Pagans are heretics, but not quite all heretics are pagan.


Paganism is generally defined as a religious system _outside_ one of the main world religions. (I don't necessarily agree with that defintion.) It is often used in a derogatory sense.

Heresy, on the other hand, is a deviation from a received orthodoxy _within_ a religion.

Of course there is overlap, especially when religions syncretize (which happens a lot), but, for the sake of clarity, the terms are best kept at some distance from each other.

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## Dachaser (Oct 24, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> Paganism is generally defined as a religious system _outside_ one of the main world religions. (I don't necessarily agree with that defintion.) It is often used in a derogatory sense.
> 
> Heresy, on the other hand, is a deviation from a receieved orthodoxy _within_ a religion.
> 
> Of course there is overlap, especially when religions syncretize (which happens a lot), but, for the sake of clarity, the terms are best kept at some distance from each other.


Think paganism is what Paul described to us in Romans 1.

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## Tom Hart (Oct 24, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> Think paganism is what Paul described to us in Romans 1.


That's a very good place to start.


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## jwithnell (Oct 24, 2019)

Paganism generally operates within a closed system -- manipulate one thing within the created order to affect another. Even if a god or spirit is mentioned, it offers no relationship and no revelation apart from visions induced by manipulating the natural order. 

Within Christianity, paganism has become an issue when some manifestation of the church encounters a pagan culture but does not eliminate the practices when people enter the church. You still see this in Mexico and other Latin American nations. (Wanna celebrate Dia de muertous anyone?) For that matter, "Luck of the Irish" and wearing costumes to ward off ghosts are hardly theistic in origin.

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## Von (Oct 25, 2019)

I think the pagan definition for Paganism will align itself with that of Wikipedia, but the biblical term is (as David mentioned above) used by Paul in Romans.


scget5 said:


> How do you define Paganism?
> Based on that definition how what is the problems with Paganism, and how common is Paganism in American Christianity?


Paganism in American Christianity? Are you wondering about professing Christians that also partake in *P*agan (or *p*agan) practices/beliefs?

PS: Where's your signature? Check the signature requirements. Hey! Now I feel like a Mod!

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## Dachaser (Oct 25, 2019)

jwithnell said:


> Paganism generally operates within a closed system -- manipulate one thing within the created order to affect another. Even if a god or spirit is mentioned, it offers no relationship and no revelation apart from visions induced by manipulating the natural order.
> 
> Within Christianity, paganism has become an issue when some manifestation of the church encounters a pagan culture but does not eliminate the practices when people enter the church. You still see this in Mexico and other Latin American nations. (Wanna celebrate Dia de muertous anyone?) For that matter, "Luck of the Irish" and wearing costumes to ward off ghosts are hardly theistic in origin.


It's like when the Catholic Church allows for occultic practices, animal and Shaman activity in say island nations they sent priests to convert.

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## SolaScriptura (Oct 25, 2019)

In terms of describing paganism in the modern American context, I think the 1987 Dragnet movie offers us a helpful acrostic: People Against Goodness And Normalcy. 

When I think of the modern freak parade to which we're exposed, I routinely think of that movie and that acrostic.

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## Andrew35 (Oct 26, 2019)

Utterly irrelevant, but the word always makes me think of Henry Percy ("Hotspur") in Shakespeare's _Henry IV: Part 1_ when he calls a lord who won't join his planned rebellion against King Henry IV a "pagan rascal."

Nearly as memorable as when Friederich Reck, in his WW2-era diary on contemporary events, refers to Hitler as a "middle-class antichrist."


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## EuphratesRiver (Oct 28, 2019)

scget5 said:


> How do you define Paganism?


I define it (and use the term) as the religion of the heathen, usually those who worship nature, manufactured idols, and/or believe in polytheism. I suppose it has a more refined definition, but this is how I relate the term in my mind.


scget5 said:


> Based on that definition how what is the problems with Paganism, and how common is Paganism in American Christianity?


It is opposed to God and true religion. I believe it is more (or becoming more) common than we realize right now.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Oct 28, 2019)

I very much like the definition provided by _The Oxford English Dictionary:_

*Pagan:* One of a nation or community that does not hold the true religion, or does not worship the true God; a heathen. († In earlier use practically = non-Christian, and so including Muslims and, sometimes Jews.)

*Paganism:* The religious beleif and practices of pagans; the condition of being a pagan; heathenism.​

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## alexandermsmith (Oct 29, 2019)

SolaScriptura said:


> In terms of describing paganism in the modern American context, I think the 1987 Dragnet movie offers us a helpful acrostic: People Against Goodness And Normalcy.
> 
> When I think of the modern freak parade to which we're exposed, I routinely think of that movie and that acrostic.



Exactly. I think what we are seeing around us: the transgender hysteria, the sodomite agenda, "climate change" derangement, and just the general depravity is pure paganism. It is to replace the Creator with the creature and to substitute the Truth with a lie.


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## Tom Hart (Oct 29, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> It's like when the Catholic Church allows for occultic practices, animal and Shaman activity in say island nations they sent priests to convert.


The Roman Catholic Church in Korea expressly permits the local custom of ancestor worship.

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## Tom Hart (Oct 29, 2019)

I think we should be careful about confusing terms here. "Paganism" refers to religious systems; it is not the same as godlessness in general.

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## Dachaser (Oct 29, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> I think we should be careful about confusing terms here. "Paganism" refers to religious systems; it is not the same as godlessness in general.


That would be actually Humanism.


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## Von (Oct 29, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> That would be actually Humanism.


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## alexandermsmith (Oct 30, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> I think we should be careful about confusing terms here. "Paganism" refers to religious systems; it is not the same as godlessness in general.



I would agree but it doesn't have to be an _organised_ system of religion/belief.


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## Tom Hart (Oct 30, 2019)

alexandermsmith said:


> I would agree but it doesn't have to be an _organised_ system of religion/belief.


Of course. I didn't say it had to be.


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## alexandermsmith (Oct 30, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> Of course. I didn't say it had to be.



I didn't say you did. I was just clarifying.


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## Tom Hart (Oct 30, 2019)

alexandermsmith said:


> I didn't say you did. I was just clarifying.


Well, I didn't say you did say I did. Or did I?

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## OPC'n (Oct 30, 2019)

I personally knew a few pagans in my past. These were people who worshipped multiple gods. The gods were the typical gods like Zeus, Aphrodite, etc. sometimes people mix them up with atheists (using the term pagan to describe an atheist). They had specific worship rituals and alters. They were always scared of angering a god and if they felt they had they said they would turn around and threaten that god or completely ignore them. It’s a scary way to live I’m sure. 

How does the Church fall into paganism? When we have idols in our hearts that we worship. A correct definition of worship helps us to see how often we practice paganism that we need to repent of. Also bringing into church services things that God has not instructed us to bring in is a form of paganism.


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## Pergamum (Oct 30, 2019)

Pagan literally means village dweller or a rustic. 

https://www.thoughtco.com/what-is-pagan-120163


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## Tom Hart (Oct 30, 2019)

OPC'n said:


> I personally knew a few pagans in my past. These were people who worshipped multiple gods. The gods were the typical gods like Zeus, Aphrodite, etc. sometimes people mix them up with atheists (using the term pagan to describe an atheist). They had specific worship rituals and alters. They were always scared of angering a god and if they felt they had they said they would turn around and threaten that god or completely ignore them. It’s a scary way to live I’m sure.


It sounds like you're desctibing neo-paganism, which is an idiotic revival of dead pagan religions. Norse paganism seems to be particularly popular, but Greek-based neo-paganism has its followers as well. Neo-paganism is a Western phenomenon. I figure it's mostly people with crises of identity and, perhaps, spiritual longing.

You'll find that neo-pagans are nothing at all like their ancient counterparts. An obvious example is the absence of animal sacrifice; sacrifice, animal and human, is central to authentic paganism. Also, these neo-pagans' sexual ethics are likely to be far more relaxed than actual historic pagans' (though at times the Greeks might make even moderns blush).


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