# Debate: Caner Brothers vs Tom Ascol and James White



## 4ndr3w (Mar 28, 2006)

Forgive me if this has already been posted. I did a search and did not find it.

http://www.aomin.org/index.php?itemid=1309

Baptists and Calvinism: A Debate at the New Thomas Road Baptist Church, Lynchburg, Virginia

Monday, October 16th, 2006, 7pm,


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## Kaalvenist (Mar 28, 2006)

Funny... I was about to post on the same thing.

The article itself didn't seem to have a whole lot of information on the subject. It seems a bit broad (or undefined) at the moment, since it only says the Caners will be speaking against Calvinism, and Ascol and White will be speaking in defense of Calvinism. I'm sure they'll define a bit more (what doctrines or aspects of Calvinism specifically); it just sounds like it's still "in the works," given the current lack of precision.


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## Ivan (Mar 28, 2006)

I look forward to hearing the debate.


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## Founded on the Rock (Mar 28, 2006)

I can't wait to hear White and Ascol proclaim the Doctrines of Grace! Hopefully the Caners bring more than a Dave Hunt critique of Calvinism so it could be somewhat edifying. Otherwise I fear that White and Ascol will have to spend the entire debate correcting the Caners obvious straw men. I pray the Lord uses this debate to minister to friends at Liberty University though! 

Who knows, maybe the Word will even minister to the Caners, and possibly humble the "intellectual pit bull of the evangelical world".


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## tellville (Mar 28, 2006)

I just hope there is cross examination. These four people debates do not usually have things like cross examination so as to save time. I think the whole endeavour would be rather pointless if they couldn't press the Caners on their exegesis of the text.


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## Founded on the Rock (Mar 28, 2006)

Hopefully Biblical exegesis is the center piece of the debate. If that is then the debate will be profitable. But as Arminians are prone to (not the Calvinists are perfect), they will mis-represent Calvinism up and down and do hermeneutic gymnastics to save themselves from anything resembling Calvinism.

I just pray that the debate stick to exegetical study of important Scriptures pertaining to salvation. John 6 being the most important. I have a feeling I am going to be disappointed though


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## MeanieCalvinist (Mar 28, 2006)

I have the same thoughts on this one. However, I am still excited that it will be taking place. I pray it brings honor and glory to our Lord.



In Christ,

Brian


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## Founded on the Rock (Mar 28, 2006)

I'm getting excited for this debate!!! Does anyone think James White is the best Reformed debater around? I don't have a whole lot of experience but I would classify him my personal favorite. Just a thought... :bigsmile:


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## MeanieCalvinist (Mar 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Founded on the Rock_
> I'm getting excited for this debate!!! Does anyone think James White is the best Reformed debater around? I don't have a whole lot of experience but I would classify him my personal favorite. Just a thought... :bigsmile:



 I would have to say he is the best Reformed debator currently. That is ofcourse... up for debate.


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## Kstone1999 (Mar 29, 2006)

Here is the Link for Tom Ascol's blog concerning this on the founders website.


http://www.founders.org/blog/2006/03/debate.html


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## Answerman (Mar 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Founded on the Rock_
> I'm getting excited for this debate!!! Does anyone think James White is the best Reformed debater around? I don't have a whole lot of experience but I would classify him my personal favorite. Just a thought... :bigsmile:



I agree, but if Bahnsen was still alive, he would be my favorite.


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## 4ndr3w (Mar 29, 2006)

It would be out of James White's character to have a debate without cross examination. I don't think there is anything to fear there.


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## MeanieCalvinist (Mar 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by 4ndr3w_
> It would be out of James White's character to have a debate without cross examination. I don't think there is anything to fear there.



I would hope not. There was only one debate that I can think of where there was no cross examination. It was The Regeneration and Perseverance Debate with Dr. Wilkin I believe.

But I do not think that will happen again.. I am looking forward to what Tom Ascol will be sharing. He is a great speaker and I look forward to his participation during the debate. I believe he is the right man for the debate.

My  anyway!

In Christ,

Brian


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## 4ndr3w (Mar 30, 2006)

> _Originally posted by MeanieCalvinist_
> 
> But I do not think that will happen again.. I am looking forward to what Tom Ascol will be sharing. He is a great speaker and I look forward to his participation during the debate. I believe he is the right man for the debate.
> 
> ...



Agreed. I think Tom will bring a lot to the table. I am happy to see him accept.


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## tellville (Apr 13, 2006)

I just watched this sermon preached by Dr.Ergun Caner on "Hyper-Calvinism": http://boss.streamos.com/wmedia/liberty/trbc/20060409p_hi.wvx

James White has posted the link on his blog as he is planning on responding to it tomorrow on the Dividing Line. There were some points where the sermon was absolutely atrocious. For example, when he was talking about Romans 9 and didn't bother reading the whole passage. If he had, he would have looked pretty dumb given what he said right after 

But there was one thing I really liked about the sermon, and that was his incredible passion to do missions. This is a passion that unfortunately seems lacking in most Presbyterians I know *personally* (minus the ones coming from Presbyterian Reformed Church of Edmonton APC which unfortunately is the smallest church I've ever seen, though not from a lack of trying!).

It doesn't help when I read quotes like these on this forum:

"I think it is because the Reformed view the Church as growing from within, i.e. "making more Church" through our Creation mandate to be fruitful and multiply. Not to say that new converts don't come into the Church, they do all the time, it just isn't as common in a more established Presbyterian or Reformed Church, where most of the growth is by multiplication, not addition." 

"Yes, Presbyterians DO baptize adults (who weren't baptized earlier in life). But I've only seen this a few times"

Now don't get me wrong, there is nothing necessarily wrong with a church if the only way it is growing is by child bearing. If your church is passionate about missions and evangelizing, but people just aren't being drawn by God, well, God knows best. But if your church is not growing because the attitude is "well, we will grow from within" then I would personally have some big concerns. 

Caner's punch at "hyper-Calvinists" who take their doctrine and themselves and live under a tree so as to convert other "hyper-Calvinists" seems to ring true with the Presbyterians I know personally (minus PRCE). 

Anyway, my obvious Baptist leanings are clearly coming through  I guess I wanted to give credit where credit was due, even if that means the credit goes to Dr. Ergun Caner!

Added:
And yes, I realize there are about a billion things people could say about my denomination, for starters: We have Dr. Ergun Caner.... 



[Edited on 4-13-2006 by tellville]


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## Founded on the Rock (Apr 13, 2006)

I listened to the sermon also. I began shouting and screaming when he stopped reading all of Romans 9!!! But you are right about his passion and zeal. 

After watching the sermon, I firmly believe the Dr. Caner is just a brother trapped in tradition. I cannot wait to see the debate between White and Caner though... Both men are excellent speakers though Dr. White focuses on exegesis much more than Dr. Caner.

Should be a dynamite debate though... I have friends at Liberty that I pray will go and hear this debate... THE ANTICIPATION IS KILLING ME!


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