# Question for those who started out non-reformed...



## Chris (Jan 15, 2007)

Hello,

I'm a longtime lurker but new member. 

I'm currently a member of a typical SBC church (1-point calvinists, so to speak) in a sea of typical SBC churches. The closest baptist church I can find that affirms the Doctrines of Grace is over an hour away. 

I'm currently a member of a small church where I'm heavily involved. Leaving will not be easy, so I was curious if anyone wanted to share their stories of growing up in a typical evangelical church and later moving for theological reasons. 

Did you talk with people about why you were leaving? How hard was it to find a new church? It seems like the only reformed churches in most of the rural south are Presbyterian, so I'm struggling with even finding another church. Sad part is, there are probably good reformed Baptist churches that simply aren't well-known. It seems like lots of smaller churches don't try hard to make themselves known.


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## Bandguy (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi Chris,

My Church was for a long time like the SBC Churches you describe above. I have been in prayer for the past several years about this and recently God has changed it. Sometimes this is what happens and if you can be patient enough where you are, perhaps God will work there too. I am not saying that this is always the case, but who knows?

Have you checked the Founders Ministry? I believe they have a database of reformed Southern Baptist Churches across the nation. Check it out here.


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## Devin (Jan 15, 2007)

From birth I was raised in a Nazarene Church. Very Wesleyan/Arminian. I now attend a Baptist church 45 miles away that adheres to the doctrines of grace. 

The transition was a little rough. My mom, who is very involved with the Nazarene church, didn't like it a bit. However, she knew that I was very unhappy there. She sort of understands my reasons for leaving, though she doesn't want to talk theology too much. She's just happy that I'm still faithful to and happily attending an orthodox church.

Most of the other church members were the same way as far as discussing the reason why I left.. They asked why, I mentioned the theological problems I was having, and then they just said "okay" and pretty much changed the subject. 

I did, however, get some rather discouraging letters from members of my old church. The majority just wanted me to come back and such, but some sought to play on my emotions to get me back (I should stay because of my mom, it's my "home church" etc). Those particular letters disgusted me, but not many were like that. 

However, ultimately, it was obviously the right thing to do. I have been so happy attending a church where the the Word is so faithfully expounded upon. I wouldn't give it up for anything.


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## Chris (Jan 15, 2007)

Bandguy said:


> Hi Chris,
> 
> My Church was for a long time like the SBC Churches you describe above. I have been in prayer for the past several years about this and recently God has changed it. Sometimes this is what happens and if you can be patient enough where you are, perhaps God will work there too. I am not saying that this is always the case, but who knows?
> 
> Have you checked the Founders Ministry? I believe they have a database of reformed Southern Baptist Churches across the nation. Check it out here.



There are 2 churches about 65 miles away from me that are registered with Founders.org, and another one about 70 miles away that isn't registered w/ founders but would suit me pretty well doctrinally. A few months ago I considered driving to one of the founders-freindly churches, but it just seems insane to drive an hour to church - there's nothing really wrong with it, but it's hard to be involved with ministry when you're an hour away from church. 

As for my church becoming reformed.....it's closer to 'emergent/purpose driven' than 'reformed'.


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## Bandguy (Jan 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> As for my church becoming reformed.....it's closer to 'emergent/purpose driven' than 'reformed'.



A few years ago, we were doing the 40 days of Purpose. You would be amazed what God can do. I will be praying for you.


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## Chris (Jan 15, 2007)

joshua said:


> Oh, the stories I could tell...but I won't.



I know what you mean - it's hard not to cross over into gossip. 



Devin said:


> From birth I was raised in a Nazarene Church. Very Wesleyan/Arminian. I now attend a Baptist church 45 miles away that adheres to the doctrines of grace.
> 
> The transition was a little rough. My mom, who is very involved with the Nazarene church, didn't like it a bit. However, she knew that I was very unhappy there. She sort of understands my reasons for leaving, though she doesn't want to talk theology too much. She's just happy that I'm still faithful to and happily attending an orthodox church.



My dad attends the church I left a few months ago. He was glad to see me leave - he's not happy there either. He is actually encouraging me to leave the new church, too, since he knows my reservations about it. 



Bandguy said:


> A few years ago, we were doing the 40 days of Purpose. You would be amazed what God can do. I will be praying for you.




I appreciate that.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 15, 2007)

Chris, hubby was raised SBC...I was raised IFB until hubby started courting me, then I switched to that "liberal" SBC church  Anyhow, if it's any consolation, we travel 3 1/2hrs one way to church along with 4-5 other families and one family that travels 5hrs one way. It's worth it.


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## lv1nothr (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi Chris, 
we just recently left a church over doctrinal issues, we're now driving over 2hrs. to worship~! We joyfully make the drive! 
Makes your potential one hr. sound like a hop, skip and a jump!

May the Lord give you wisdom, guidance and direction, and HE will, just look to Him and seek to glorify Him above all! 

Welcome to the PB!


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## caddy (Jan 15, 2007)

A lot to consider. For now, I have chosen to stay in my SBC Church. I would consider ours more along the lines of being 4-pointers. When I consider all the reasons why I might leave, I am constantly reminded of all the things that are right about it. I belong to a very loving church. I have many friends my age. We are all involved and working in the church on a number of different levels and ministries. I have considered leaving. I have even talked to a Presbyterian Minister. We talked for 2 hours then prayed. I told him this would not be a quick or easy decision and asked for his prayers. For now, I am staying.


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## caddy (Jan 15, 2007)

3.5 hours ! 5 hrs !  



LadyFlynt said:


> Chris, hubby was raised SBC...I was raised IFB until hubby started courting me, then I switched to that "liberal" SBC church  Anyhow, if it's any consolation, we travel 3 1/2hrs one way to church along with 4-5 other families and one family that travels 5hrs one way. It's worth it.


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## lv1nothr (Jan 15, 2007)

caddy said:


> 3.5 hours ! 5 hrs !



Don't forget over 2hrs. for us...we all go to the same place!  

Hey...at least we don't have to travel to Jerusalem!


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## Carolyn (Jan 15, 2007)

Hi Chris!

I’m a lurker too, but I will crawl out from under my rock to respond to your question since it is near and dear to my heart at the moment. 

Last Sunday was the first Sunday at our new church, an OPC church that seemed to pop up out of nowhere here in western Wisconsin. The church has really been around for a few years but we didn’t notice it until last winter. At the time my husband and I were very entrenched in the Ev. Covenant church we joined after we moved to town. We made some very good friends there and our two sons did as well. 

Even though my husband and I were becoming more Reformed in our doctrine, we determined to try and influence things where we served, my husband in his three-year term as elder and I through the women’s Sunday school class I taught. However, once my husband rotated off the elder board, the pastors made several major changes in programming (40 Days anyone?) and in our discussions with the leadership about this, major doctrinal issues surfaced that had not been stated clearly before. We knew it was time to leave.

Chris, there is no neat way to make a break like this. Most people still don’t know why we made such a big deal about “getting it right.” Their feelings were hurt. I cried the last Sunday of my Bible class. Our son who still lives at home is worried about connecting with the handful of teenagers at the new church. However, we know that leaving was the right thing to do and there are already many blessings attached to attending the new church.

May God give you clear direction as you seek to worship and glorify Him.

Carolyn Martinson
Attending Covenant Presbyterian OPC, Baldwin, WI


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## Davidius (Jan 15, 2007)

Chris said:


> It seems like the only reformed churches in most of the rural south are Presbyterian, so I'm struggling with even finding another church.



It sounds like you might be majoring on the minors (even though I don't really consider baptism a minor, but relatively speaking). If the closest Calvinistic Baptist church is an hour away, why not just go to one of the Presbyterian churches you mentioned? You made it sound like the baptism issue (I'm assuming that's what it is since I can't think of another reason why you, being a Baptist, would not consider a Presbyterian church worthy) would keep you in a Pelagian church if it were the only option. If there were no Presbyterian churches around here, I'd go to a Calvinistic Baptist church in a heartbeat before I'd go to a Methodist (where infants are baptized) church that was Arminian in its soteriology. In fact, there is a family in my church that does not adhere to infant baptism but comes because the closest Calvinistic Baptist church is a bit of a drive.


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## Augusta (Jan 15, 2007)

Chris, once you sit under good preaching and the means of grace properly administered, your spirit will be so satisfied that you will understand people driving hours to receive it. We left our old Foursquare church when we finally just couldn't stomach it anymore. It was like a foul taste in our mouth. We just couldn't stay there. Once we were fed the word in full courses we just grew and grew in grace. We were stagnant in our old church. I would really encourage you to get OUT. Go to the nearest church where the word is rightly preached and the sacraments rightly administered. Btw we have baptists in our OPC church as well. Baptisms are infrequent so I doubt it would bother you.


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## 3John2 (Jan 15, 2007)

I was raised Roman Catholic & went there till I was over 20 years old. It was heard to leave due to being "raised" a Catholic. I simply could not adhere to the doctrines being taught. I then attended a Word of Faith/Charismatic church for 12 years. I love it there but I was not growing after a while. Then there was SO much lunacy going on & things that were WAY off. You name it it was there, bad leadership, internal strife etc. I finally HAD to leave. It was hard as I do not like to church hop etc. I tried a few churches mostly out of convenience (location to work/home). I then started to change my theology into more Reformed little by little. I was then trying DESPERATLY to find a Reformed church & asked at several boards if they knew of any in my area. Finally by God's providence I heard an ad on the radio by my now pastor & found out a friend of mine attended there & I started. I have now been at Church of The King for going on 3 years. It was the best thing I could have done. I simply can NOT see myself attending a non Reformed church now. I'd rather go to a Presbyterian church than a non Reformed church. 
By the way if it's of any good to you there was one couple at our church who the husband/father was posting on a preterist forum. He noticed some posts by my pastor & was very impressed. They were living about 2 hours away. He was so hungry to grow that he started to drive the 2 hrs plus every Sunday to have his kids & family attend there. Since then he was changed JOBS in order to be able to attend church. To ME that was VERY VERY encouraging. I'm not sure if I'd go through something like unless it was to perhaps attend John Pipers church.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 15, 2007)

caddy said:


> 3.5 hours ! 5 hrs !



Yes. And you really don't want a list of my other options. There is only one other church that is closer that I would go back to...about an hour away.


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## Blue Tick (Jan 16, 2007)

Chris said:


> Hello,
> 
> I'm a longtime lurker but new member.
> 
> ...





Hi Chris,

Welcome to the PB. Make the drive, you'll be blessed! Staying in a church that does not believe or teach the DoG will only drive you nuts.

Also, you can probably expect some tension when you leave. Just be gentle and patient with people when you are telling them your reasons. If you are close to the people it will be hard at first. Also, leave the door open with people so you can talk with them about the DoG.

Grace and Peace


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## Kevin (Jan 16, 2007)

Chris said:


> Hello,
> 
> 
> It seems like the only reformed churches in most of the rural south are Presbyterian, so I'm struggling with even finding another church.
> ...


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 16, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> Hey brother;
> Go try out Paul Washer's church. It is relatively Close"! Better than starving to death.



WOW!

I would love to go to Washer's church.


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## Chris (Jan 16, 2007)

houseparent said:


> WOW!
> 
> I would love to go to Washer's church.



I've heard his pastor preach. He's solid. The fact that Washer went there and fit in speaks volumes. 

http://www.fbcms.org/

Get this - they actually recognize old-fashioned BIBLICAL distinctives:
http://www.fbcms.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=27&Itemid=44

If I leave the current church, this one will be HIGH on the list.


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## Philip A (Jan 16, 2007)

joshua said:


> Oh, the stories I could tell...but I won't.



You and me both!


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## Chris (Jan 16, 2007)

Kevin said:


> Chris said:
> 
> 
> > Hello,
> ...


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 16, 2007)

Yeah, the PCA up here has a ton of RBs in it.


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## Chris (Jan 17, 2007)

Do you drive for mid-week services or other corporate ministry opportunities? 

That's one thing that scares me - I'm used to church being an all-week thing, and I worry about being able to be there mid-week.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 17, 2007)

The church Grace and I drive to is only on Lord's Day. No midweek services.


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## Chris (Feb 5, 2007)

houseparent said:


> WOW!
> 
> I would love to go to Washer's church.



Yesterday I went to First Baptist Muscle Shoals and was really impressed. Super-friendly people, good music, and the preaching was absolutely superb. I have no idea if PW was there or not - I didn't really look - but the pastor laid to rest a great fear of mine. 

I've heard so much bad preaching in the last 3 years that I was beginning to fear that I was just a reprobate grump who wouldn't be happy no matter what. Well, yesterday I wanted to jump up and dance in the aisle. I can count on one hand the sermons I've heard in the past that I actually took notes on, but yesterday I sat scribbling notes, nodding my head in agreement, waiting to see him mistreat a text (I've grown cynical and critical) and he never bobbled. 

I was thrilled to finally walk away from church feeling fed. 

Praise the Lord!


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## CDM (Feb 5, 2007)

LadyFlynt said:


> Yeah, the PCA up here has a ton of RBs in it.



The PCA churches in the Carolinas do too!


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## Augusta (Feb 5, 2007)

Chris said:


> Yesterday I went to First Baptist Muscle Shoals and was really impressed. Super-friendly people, good music, and the preaching was absolutely superb. I have no idea if PW was there or not - I didn't really look - but the pastor laid to rest a great fear of mine.
> 
> I've heard so much bad preaching in the last 3 years that I was beginning to fear that I was just a reprobate grump who wouldn't be happy no matter what. Well, yesterday I wanted to jump up and dance in the aisle. I can count on one hand the sermons I've heard in the past that I actually took notes on, but yesterday I sat scribbling notes, nodding my head in agreement, waiting to see him mistreat a text (I've grown cynical and critical) and he never bobbled.
> 
> ...



That is wonderful Chris.


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## KMK (Feb 5, 2007)

Chris said:


> I'm currently a member of a small church where I'm heavily involved. Leaving will not be easy, so I was curious if anyone wanted to share their stories of growing up in a typical evangelical church and later moving for theological reasons.



Leaving a church is not supposed to be easy. The Bible does speak of some specific reasons to break fellowship. Fornication, Unbelief, Heresy are all specific 'deal-breakers'. If you desire to leave you better make sure you have a biblical reason to do so.

I agree with those on this thread who are encouraging you to instead pray for your pastor and elders that he would turn their hearts to the DoG. I took over an ABC church a year ago (very liberal) and now they are asking me to teach them Spurgeon's Catechism! So the HS does have the power to change your church. It just takes a great deal of prayer. It is an amazing thing to witness the miracle of the Lord getting a hold of church. It is awesome!

I encourage you to talk to your pastor about your concerns. He has been given to your church for the purpose of edifying and perfecting you. Challenge him to do his job.

Meanwhile you can get a great deal of excellent preaching on sermonaudio and other places to keep learning.

God bless you brother!


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## puritan lad (Feb 5, 2007)

My Story...

I was a youth minister in the Assemblies of God for almost 15 years. I was Arminian, and called myself a Dispensationalist (though I still held to the moral law as a rule for life). I defended Pentecostalism, though I was never sold on the "initial physical evidence" stuff.

My theology began to change in 1998, when the Y2K stuff started to come out. I came to the conclusion that many of our so-called "prophecy experts" were experts in nothing except for confusion. However, it seemed clear to me that Revelation must have a concrete meaning. It was part of the Word of God. So I actually became Reformed in my Eschatology before Soteriology. Once I broke ranks with the AG on that issue, other doctrines became fair game as well. Romans 9 and Proverbs 16:4 clarified the sovereignty of God for me, and I've been reforming ever since.

I still have close friendships with many of the members of the AG church, and I do consider them to be my brothers and sisters in Christ. But I left (mutually and friendly agreement) for doctrinal issues.


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