# Presumptive regeneration & prayer



## Poimen (Aug 2, 2005)

Perhaps this was covered in the giant thread(s) on this issue but I can't find anything via the search engine so...

For those who believe in presumptive regeneration: is it possible to pray for something which you already assume your child has? After all, it's not like praying for more grace which can be added, for regeneration is a one time thing. Or maybe those who hold to PE have the same problem since they cannot add to God's election either.... 

Please note: I am asking more out of curiosity than I am trying to trap or accuse anyone of anything.


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## biblelighthouse (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by poimen_
> Perhaps this was covered in the giant thread(s) on this issue but I can't find anything via the search engine so...
> 
> For those who believe in presumptive regeneration: is it possible to pray for something which you already assume your child has? After all, it's not like praying for more grace which can be added, for regeneration is a one time thing. Or maybe those who hold to PE have the same problem since they cannot add to God's election either....
> ...



Great question! I personally wrestled with this a bit after coming to believe in PR.

I do not pray for my children to "get saved". I don't try to "evangelize" them, either face-to-face, or through prayer.

However, I *daily* pray with them and for them. I thank God for what Christ has done for my family. And I thank Him for bringing my family into covenant with Himself. I pray for Him to draw ALL of us, including my little girls, into a closer loving relationship with Himself. (Hopefully this praying would not bother the non-PR people, because if my girls are not regenerate, then their being drawn intimately close to Jesus would *necessarily* include their salvation.)

Your thoughts?

In Christ,
Joseph


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## Scott Bushey (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by biblelighthouse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by poimen_
> ...



G2098
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euaggelion
yoo-ang-ghel'-ee-on
From the same as G2097; a good message, that is, the gospel: - gospel.


Joseph,
How can your children be converted unless you evangelize them? The regenerate still must repent, accept, receive, believe etc.

Rom 10:14 But how are they to call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? 
Rom 10:15 And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" 
Rom 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" 
Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


[Edited on 8-3-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## biblelighthouse (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> G2098
> ÎµÏ…Ì“Î±Î³Î³ÎµÌÎ»Î¹Î¿Î½
> euaggelion
> ...



Scott, 

I understand, and I totally agree.

I was just loosely using the word "evangelize" in the common, modern, non-theologically-precise sense. i.e. I meant I won't consider my children "outside the camp" as "unclean unbelievers".

Of course I will teach my girls the Gospel. In fact, already, when I pray with them at night, I thank Christ for His sacrificial death that takes away sin.


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## Poimen (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by biblelighthouse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by poimen_
> ...



Well your answer is consistent, I'll give you that. 

I guess I still struggle with John 3 where Jesus says the Spirit blows wherever He wills. 

I think I lean in the PR camp but still come out PE at the end of the day.


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## Scott Bushey (Aug 3, 2005)

Dan,
The Spirit is more active in the covenant family than out of it. Would you agree with this statement?


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## Poimen (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> Dan,
> The Spirit is more active in the covenant family than out of it. Would you agree with this statement?



One would hope that would be the case yes. But then you have Samuel and Eli; David and Solomon. 

The covenant lines in the book of Kings seem to demonstrate just the opposite.

And even if what you state is the case, that simply does not mean that the Spirit must regenerate our children at birth. He is free to do as He pleases (I know you believe this but I think it as important to remember this). 

[Edited on 8-3-2005 by poimen]


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