# Is John 12:41 referencing Jesus' Glory?



## Hilasmos (Apr 7, 2012)

Wanted to see if you all had some insight into this passage. I am finding conflicting views, but I have heard this passage used a lot to demonstrate that Jesus is Jehovah

1. John 12:41 says Isaiah saw his [Jesus'] glory
2. This is stated after quoting from Isaiah 6:10, which in context is all about Yawheh's glory
3. Therefore, Isaiah saw Jehovah's and Jesus' glory since they are the same God.

My problem, however, is the wording of the actual verse:



> John 12:41 (ESV) — 41 Isaiah said these things because he saw his glory and spoke of him.



It seems awkward to say: Isaiah said these things (about Jesus) because he saw Jesus' glory and spoke of Jesus. "He said these things because he spoke of him." ??? 

But, if the "his" in "his glory" is Yahweh, it seems to flow better: "Isaiah said these things because he [Isaiah] saw his [Yahweh's] glory and [he, Yahweh] spoke of him [Jesus]."

In other words, Isaiah said these things about Jesus because he saw Yahweh and Yahweh spoke of him (Is. 6:8) and Isaiah is relaying the prophetic message. Not that this means Jesus isn't God-Jehovah, but that distinction isn't being brought out.

On the other hand, the "his" and "hims" throughout the entire passage are about Jesus, the only referent in context. So, the argument goes that the glory seen has to be Jesus'. Thus, even the NIV replaces the "his" with the word Jesus, even though that is not in the Greek. Of course, I find it enticing to use this as a passage for the divinity of Christ, but don't want to use it wrongly. Thoughts?


----------



## Contra_Mundum (Apr 7, 2012)

You are trying to combine the distinct thoughts of two clauses.

Isaiah said "these things"--which refer to the texts referenced, 53:1 and 6:9-10. The word for "said" is from the word "lego," typical for a focus on content.

He said these things "*because* he saw his glory and spoke of him." The word for "spoke" is from the word "laleo," which describes the act of speaking. "Talked about" puts the focus on the speaker.

This second clause a self-contained idea: {Isaiah saw his glory and spoke of him}--the seeing and the speaking are conceptually united in a specific series of acts. They are conceptually distinct from the reference to the prophetic writing.

Finally, there is no clear reference in the quotations as they are rendered by John that make it sound like Jehovah is talking, and that about Jesus. You might argue that most of Is.53 is about Jesus, but still the most obvious speaker of Is.53 is Isaiah. Is.6 has Jehovah speaking, but not obviously about another person except for Isaiah.


----------



## Hilasmos (Apr 7, 2012)

Thank you very much, I think I follow where you are going. 

In the second clause, the point is that Isaiah engaged in the act of speaking about Jehovah in the presence of his glory (the content of which could be "I am a man of unclean lips")? 

Where as _lego_ more or less means: these specific prophecies are found in the scriptures of Isaiah.


----------

