# Are we brothers and sisters in Christ?



## newcreature (Dec 23, 2012)

Today the chaplain (calls himself a liberal Christian) took a group of us to church. Oakhurst Baptist church in Decatur/ Atlanta, GA. I was really excited since I haven't been to church in two Sundays. I thought, today I will fellowship with my Baptist sisters and brothers. But on the way there I learned of the very "rich and progressive" history of the congregation. They were the first Baptist church in Atlanta to ordain gay/ lesbian pastors. Upon arrival our group was warmly greeted by Melanie, one of the pastors, who happened to bring the sermon today. 

The service seemed ok, not much different than an ARP where I attend occasionally. However, I found myself in conflict throughout the service. Are these brothers and sisters who are in error, or are these not Christians who are taking the name of the Lord in vain? Should I have walked out of the service?

Here is their church covenant:

Our Covenant - Oakhurst Baptist Church


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## Mushroom (Dec 24, 2012)

As laypeople as you and I are, Angela, there is some relief to know that error in a Church is not our responsibility to fix, or even to protest. But as a lay-person I can give you my take on such a situation, and it is that I would quietly endure the proceedings until they were over, and then never return. There is so much rebellion against the Word there that to return would be inconceivable. To endure while there under the circumstances of uninformed attendance, and to leave afterward without comment, would be wise, sister. These people sound to be veritable enemies of the cross. Get back to your own Church if it is faithful, or transfer to the ARP Church you have visited, and worship in safety. Let the Lord determine if this congregation consists of brethren or not, and instead concentrate on your own and your covenant children's growth and protection. This place is definitely not for you.


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## Jake (Dec 24, 2012)

I have family members who are members of that church who show no signs of being regenerate. As a whole though, I have often wondered about the more liberal denominations myself and personally see a very very small remnant in such places.


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## Curt (Dec 24, 2012)

To answer the OP, Machen wrote,


> Christianity differs from liberalism, then, in the first place, in its conception of God. But it also differs in its conception of man. Modern liberalism has lost all sense of the gulf that separates the creature from the Creator; its doctrine of man follows naturally from its doctrine of God. But it is not only the creature limitations of mankind which are denied. Far more important is another difference. According to the Bible, man is a sinner under the just condemnation of God; according to modern liberalism, there is really no such thing as sin. At the very root of the modern liberal movement is the loss of the consciousness of sin.



Christianity and liberalism are not two streams of the same faith. Liberalism places its faith in man.


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## reformedminister (Dec 24, 2012)

Brad said:


> As laypeople as you and I are, Angela, there is some relief to know that error in a Church is not our responsibility to fix, or even to protest. But as a lay-person I can give you my take on such a situation, and it is that I would quietly endure the proceedings until they were over, and then never return. There is so much rebellion against the Word there that to return would be inconceivable. To endure while there under the circumstances of uninformed attendance, and to leave afterward without comment, would be wise, sister. These people sound to be veritable enemies of the cross. Get back to your own Church if it is faithful, or transfer to the ARP Church you have visited, and worship in safety. Let the Lord determine if this congregation consists of brethren or not, and instead concentrate on your own and your covenant children's growth and protection. This place is definitely not for you.



The idea that "because I am just a lay-person so it is not my responsibility" disgusts me! I'm sorry to be gruff Brad but this attitude is in error. Obviously that church has been tilting towards being hellbound for quite some time and it may not be worth raising an eyebrow. However, I would at least pray about it. With other circumstances, do all you can! Raise a stink if you have to. The squeaky wheel is the one that gets oiled and I the reason the liberals are getting their way is because they are making a lot of chatter!


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## Mindaboo (Dec 24, 2012)

reformedminister said:


> The idea that "because I am just a lay-person so it is not my responsibility" disgusts me! I'm sorry to be gruff Brad but this attitude is in error. Obviously that church has been tilting towards being hellbound for quite some time and it may not be worth raising an eyebrow. However, I would at least pray about it. With other circumstances, do all you can! Raise a stink if you have to. The squeaky wheel is the one that gets oiled and I the reason the liberals are getting their way is because they are making a lot of chatter!



My impression is this is not a church where she holds membership. With that in mind, what are the proper stands to make? Maybe an email/phone call with the problems she saw? I could see her fighting if she were a member, but if you are just visiting do we go that far? I attend a church with my friend that I completely disagree with. I speak to her when we leave church about the problems I see. I've seen the gospel being watered down more and more. It used to proclaim the gospel faithfully. I have wondered if I should write the pastor, but it's not a church I hold membership in. I'm just a visitor and not often. So, how do you handle those things? 

Angela, I would have wanted to run out. I wouldn't have, but would have wanted to. I think only the Lord knows the heart of the congregation. I'm sure there are some that are saved, and if they are, the Lord is able to bring them out of that situation. I'm not the same person I was spiritually 16 years ago when the Lord broke through. We all grow at different paces and in different seasons. We should be praying that these churches repent, and that the Lord would have mercy on any of his children who are sitting in this congregation following this false teaching. I'd pray and ask your elders what the best course of action is.


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## irresistible_grace (Dec 24, 2012)

Since you were not a member, you could have walked out. There are many so-called churches I cannot walk in (many would even consider themselves reformed). If you had been a member, you should look to transfer. 

As far as them being our brothers/sisters in Christ, if you have to question it, you've probably already answered the question yourself. They obviously need your prayers. But, I would not return if I were you (since you were just visiting).


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## Jack K (Dec 24, 2012)

I don't think you have to decide who among them might be a brother or sister in Christ. But if you're able to judge that the teaching sounds far enough off the track of truth that the gospel is pretty much lost and the Lord is not honored, then it's not a church to return to. And in such cases we have reason to fear that many of the flock are not faithful followers of Christ.

I don't think I would have walked out given what you described. Being there as a visitor does not imply endorsement. And you may yet be able to do some good in your group and speak truth to them and to your chaplain. You went to his church and observed politely. Perhaps it's his turn now to attend yours.


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## VictorBravo (Dec 24, 2012)

reformedminister said:


> The idea that "because I am just a lay-person so it is not my responsibility" disgusts me! I'm sorry to be gruff Brad but this attitude is in error. Obviously that church has been tilting towards being hellbound for quite some time and it may not be worth raising an eyebrow. However, I would at least pray about it. With other circumstances, do all you can! Raise a stink if you have to. The squeaky wheel is the one that gets oiled and I the reason the liberals are getting their way is because they are making a lot of chatter!



So, in order to not be disgusting, are you recommending visitors to liberal churches bring scourges, or would just picket signs be enough?


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## newcreature (Dec 24, 2012)

Thanks for all your honest responses. I definitely will not return. I am away from home and will not be ableto attend my home church until mid February. It will seem like forever. I did speak with the chaplain about being more conservative, he just thinks I'm "intolerantx, which I guess I am. I have asked him if we can visit a PCA church and he says that might be a possibility.


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## jwithnell (Dec 24, 2012)

Under similar circumstances (after the interpretive dance started) I sat and read my Bible until the service ended.

There are two excellent OPC churches in the Atlanta area and a good mass-transit system.


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 24, 2012)

newcreature said:


> I have asked him if we can visit a PCA church and he says that might be a possibility.



Am I reading you correctly in that you can only attend a church if you are escorted by that pseudo-minister called a chaplain?


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## Mushroom (Dec 24, 2012)

reformedminister said:


> The idea that "because I am just a lay-person so it is not my responsibility" disgusts me! I'm sorry to be gruff Brad but this attitude is in error.


Heh. Well, Rev., I can tell you that my Pastor and Session would be relieved to see me take the position I described, and as I age I see more and more the value in operating within the confines of my station and callings. The reasons the liberals are getting their way has by far more to do with the compromise on the part of leadership than it does with the the laity not being a squeaky wheel, and I've been one of those pretty regularly in the past. I can tell you that if I were in your Church, an independent (?) Presbyterian congregation, I'd be so squeaky you'd be searching pretty hard for an oil can. I just see no reason to get squeaky with apostates, as these our sister has described evidently are.

But you are free to be disgusted with me as you see fit, brother. I've got a pretty hard shell.


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## just3nails (Dec 26, 2012)

1 Timothy 4:16 NIV Watch your life and doctrine closely. Persevere in them, because if you do, you will save both yourself and your hearers.
God's blessings to you sister.


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## newcreature (Dec 27, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> newcreature said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked him if we can visit a PCA church and he says that might be a possibility.
> ...



Yes, that is correct. I am in a medical treatment facility. A bit of good news, my meds are stabilizing and I should go home sooner than planned, maybe as early as next week.


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## newcreature (Dec 27, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> newcreature said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked him if we can visit a PCA church and he says that might be a possibility.
> ...



Yes, that is correct. I am in a medical treatment facility. A bit of good news, my meds are stabilizing and I should go home sooner than planned, maybe as early as next week.


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## JoannaV (Dec 28, 2012)

Praying for you Angela!


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## Christopher88 (Dec 28, 2012)

Angela, 
Can you connect an elder of a local PCA,OPC church on this matter? Good Christian men should be able to give you transportation.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 28, 2012)

Their Covenant states:



> We reject any status in this fellowship in terms of... sexual orientation.



According to this statement, they openly welcome those into their fellowship who are engaged in the sin of homosexuality and affirm them in this sin. The Scriptures warn in Isaiah 5:20:



> Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil.



This is not a church. It is a synagogue of Satan and those conscientiously affirming and supporting their doctrine are not to be esteemed as brethren in Christ.


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## irresistible_grace (Dec 28, 2012)

Praying for you, Sister!


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