# The Triumph of Arminianism??



## Greg (Oct 22, 2005)

Here is an excerpt from an article written by a gentleman named Keith Drury. I came across it a while back during the beginning of my exodus from Arminian theology. What struck me most about this article is that, though this person attended a seminary, his support of Arminianism is based on its appeal to secular man:



> "œI spent several years as a determined five-pointer as a young man before changing my mind to accept Arminianism. I made the switch purposefully and with quite a bit of painful study as a student at Princeton Seminary. But many Calvinists today are making the switch for purely pragmatic reasons. They have not become convinced the Bible really teaches the Arminian approach. Frankly, Arminianism is simply more palatable to a secular culture. It "fits in" to the mind-set of the people in their pews. Like it or not, the secular mind is naturally Arminian in its outlook. I've discovered this repeatedly myself by administering a theological questionnaire to secular students in an adult education program. These "unchurched Harrys" invariably register Arminian theologically.
> 
> Face it, Arminianism is simply more logical. It makes sense to the person on the street. And today's church is scrambling to make sense to unbelievers. We want to sound sensible, logical, rational, enlightened, fair. Arminianism is so much more appealing to worldly people." -from Keith Drury´s writing entitled, "œThe Triumph of Arminianism"



Now is this a biblical reason to embrace Arminianism or what?!


----------



## Scott Bushey (Oct 22, 2005)

> Like it or not, the secular mind is naturally Arminian in its outlook



Rom 8:5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit. 
Rom 8:6 For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.


----------



## Average Joey (Oct 22, 2005)

> They have not become convinced the Bible really teaches the Arminian approach.Arminianism is so much more appealing to worldly people.



Doesn`t these above qoutes pretty much ruin his arguement?

[Edited on 10-22-2005 by Average Joey]


----------



## Herald (Oct 22, 2005)

Give Mr. Drury credit. He sounds well-reasoned. He is, of course, wrong in his theology, but he sounds like an honest fellow. I am more interested in his exegetical reasons for abandoning Calvinism. Do have access to those reasons?


----------



## Arch2k (Oct 22, 2005)

Heb 6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 
Heb 6:5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 
Heb 6:6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.


----------



## ReformedWretch (Oct 22, 2005)

Arminianism about killed me, almost literally.


----------



## Scott Bushey (Oct 22, 2005)

Joh 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him. 
Joh 8:31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 
Joh 8:32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.


----------



## bond-servant (Oct 22, 2005)

2Ti 4:3-5 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables. But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry. (NKJV)

Adam, what do you mean it almost killed you literally?


----------



## SmokingFlax (Oct 22, 2005)

Yeah Adam...there are more than a few things from my past (unknowing) arminian conception of witnessing that cause me to cringe even to this day. -But I can't recall it almost killing me!


----------



## ReformedWretch (Oct 22, 2005)

Stress...seriously. I had heart palpatations, I put my job on the line time and again, and made several trips to the emergency room. At one point I had to wear a monitor for 24 hours that monitored my heart beat. Most of this was stress over "reaching the lost". I felt it was my duty to see those in my life saved and if I did not I was a complete failure and disappointment to God. I don't know if I can explain just how much I put this belief above every thing in my life...*every thing*.

When I accepted the doctrine of grace it was like I was boran again, again. A weight so heavy was lifted from me that I felt like a brand new person. I believe that I am!


----------



## Arch2k (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_When I accepted the doctrine of grace it was like I was boran again, again. A weight so heavy was lifted from me that I felt like a brand new person. I believe that I am!



I have had more people than I can shake a stick at say almost that exact same thing. I believe more people than we think are converted when coming to a knowledge of the doctrines of grace.

I'm one of them.


----------



## bond-servant (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> 
> When I accepted the doctrine of grace it was like I was boran again, again. A weight so heavy was lifted from me that I felt like a brand new person. I believe that I am!


----------



## bond-servant (Oct 23, 2005)

Adam, you bring up a good point : with the view of Arminianism, (which obviously was the view in the Southern Baptist Church we were in) YOU are responsible for sharing the Gospel because the salvation of the hearers rests on whether you speak or not.

This view really strips God of His sovereignity and makes man a "little god"


----------



## ReformedWretch (Oct 23, 2005)

It does indeed. You have to contribute to not only your own salvation but to the salvation of others as well. Not only if you speak or not, but how successful your speaking (and giving, or what ever it takes) is.


----------



## bond-servant (Oct 23, 2005)

Funny, during the time I was invloved I never saw it that way. I only saw an unbalanced focus on evangelism. That thinking fails to let God be God ,and we His servants. 

No pun intended, but your heart condition shows a lot about the state of your heart... if during the time you believed this, you wanted so strongly to be faithful serving our Lord, doing it 'right', that it gave you heart palpatations, ... show's a lot about where your heart is Adam. I can see why God has blessed the ministry of you and your wife.


----------



## BrianBowman (Oct 23, 2005)

Like Adam, I became convicted of the "terribleness" of Arminianism is a very pragmatic way, that is: working a more-than-full-time Software Engineering Job while also studying the Word more than 20 hours per week, teaching a Bible Study that we hoped would evolve into a Church plant, and going out "soul winning" as often as I could. 

Adam your words: 



> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Arminianism about killed me, almost literally.



... are pretty much my experience and I also suffered once emergency medicine sceario during this time that I know was from the extreme stress of it all.

I would pray sometimes until 2:00 AM for God to "make me a soul-winner". The more I did this, the weaker I got. Finally I could not even go "door-to-door" in local neighborhoods, or "face-to-face" at the fairgrounds, parks, etc. - the Holy Spirit simpy _would_not_let_me_. The only "theologians" I really knew and trusted at that time were Lewis Sperry Chafer and William Reed Newell. So I set on our front porch nealy every Sat/Sun. for 7 months reading Chafer Systematic Theology.

This led me to into a basic "Sovereign Grace" understanding but still with an "unlimited atonement". Finally, reading B.B. Warfield cleared this up and I became a "five-pointer". Shortly thereafter our former "ministry" imploded as its top two leaders were implicated in gross immorality, lying, coverups, and payoffs. I can only say boy is the human-centric "gospel" (note little "g") a hard row to hoe. 

[Edited on 10-23-2005 by BrianBowman]


----------



## bond-servant (Oct 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BrianBowman_
> 
> I can only say boy is the human-centric "gospel" (note little "g") a hard row to hoe.
> 
> [Edited on 10-23-2005 by BrianBowman]



Yes, it certainly is.


----------



## ReformedWretch (Oct 23, 2005)

Thanks Beth!

And Brian, I know what you mean. I desired to do so much that I drove myself nutty. But, as I didn't meet my goals I grew angry and slacked off. Then I would get all charged up again and make these big plans, have what I thought, were good ideas to win people to Christ. When they again failed I would get depressed and withdrawn.

It was an endless cycle.


----------



## cupotea (Nov 24, 2005)

Arminianism makes sense, in light of the state of fallen man.

Man wants to think that he is not all-bad. Man wants to think that he has some sort of control over his life. Such are a few of the distinctives of Arminianism.

Arminianism draws Christianity one giant step closer to the rest of the world's religions, saying that there is some good in man, and that salvation (in part) depends on man. Calvinism goes against the flow; it is an unwelcome idea in the presence of a fallen nature. How can we be surprised that the (majority?) of Christians today tend towards Arminianism?

As long as humanism and the exaltation of mankind continues in our society, so will the rise of Arminianism. Christians will grant that they are sinners, but not Hitlers. We're not THAT bad! 

Only when Christians begin to view sin for what it is, and the HOLINESS of God for what it is, do they begin to draw away from Arminianism.


----------



## Average Joey (Nov 24, 2005)




----------



## Presbyrino (Nov 24, 2005)

> We want to sound sensible, logical, rational, enlightened, fair. Arminianism is so much more appealing to worldly people." -from Keith Drury´s writing entitled, "œThe Triumph of Arminianism"



Arminianism is very sensible and most appealing to man because it leaves man where he is most comfortable: with himself at the center of things. So of course men are drawn and find appealing to those things which make most of them. So it makes perfect, logical, rational sense that "I" am at the center of things. 

I once saw this bumper sticker that read "Elect King Jesus". 
Not much of a King if he has to be "elected" by his subjects.


----------

