# Ordination? Do you have to if you want to be a Pastor?



## BrianOrr

I had always thought that a man seeking to be a Pastor, would finish seminary while involved in some sort of mentor-ship and then with the grace of God be able to find a church to be a pastor at, like maybe a youth or discipleship pastor and then through experience become an Associate Pastor and then Lead Pastor. Is ordination just for doing weddings, funerals, etc? Or does it depend on your denomination? Thanks


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## Romans922

What does the Bible say?

1 Timothy 4:
"13Until I come, give attention to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation and teaching. 14Do not neglect the spiritual gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic utterance with the laying on of hands by the presbytery. 
15Take pains with these things; be absorbed in them, so that your progress will be evident to all."


2 Timothy 1:
"5For I am mindful of the sincere faith within you, which first dwelt in your grandmother Lois and your mother Eunice, and I am sure that it is in you as well. 
6For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands. 
7For God has not given us a spirit of timidity, but of power and love and discipline." 



A man doesn't have to go to seminary to be a Pastor, but be trained mentally, spiritually, and practically. His first Pastorate does not have to be a youth, discipleship or Associate position. So in asking questions, first ask, "What does the Bible say?"


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## au5t1n

BrianOrr said:


> I had always thought that a man seeking to be a Pastor, would finish seminary while involved in some sort of mentor-ship and then with the grace of God be able to find a church to be a pastor at, like maybe a youth or discipleship pastor and then through experience become an Associate Pastor and then Lead Pastor. Is ordination just for doing weddings, funerals, etc? Or does it depend on your denomination? Thanks


 
It sounds like you think ordination might be something the state provides so a minister may preform weddings, etc. Rather, ordination is the word for when the elders of the Church lay hands on a man and appoint him a minister of the gospel (or to be an elder or deacon). You need to be ordained by the elders to be a pastor, biblically speaking.


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## BrianOrr

I didn't realize that "laying of the hands" was meant as ordination. I am aware of the Scriptural implication for Pastors, but I didn't associate the two together. Thanks for the info. I just have seen banner ads on the internet that say "click here to become ordained!", like it was something needed from a licensing standpoint. Again, thanks for the clarification.


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## Andres

ordination is something that takes place within a minister's denomination, and more specifically their presbytery. This is from the OPC's Book of Church Order: 



> CHAPTER XX - ORDINATION AND INSTALLATION
> 1. It being manifest by the Word of God that no man ought to take upon himself the office of deacon, ruling elder, or minister, the Scriptures declare that the church shall set men apart by solemn act for its service.
> 
> 2. Ordination is that act by which men are set apart to the offices of deacon, ruling elder, and minister. It is the church's solemn approval of and public attestation to a man's inward call, his gifts, and his calling by the church.
> 
> 3. The church shall invest him with the office only when satisfied as to his gifts and only in response to a call to do work appropriate to that office. In the case of deacons and ruling elders their service shall be in the church. In the case of ministers their service normally shall be in the church, though in unusual circumstances it may be, if approved by the presbytery, in nonecclesiastical religious organizations.
> 
> 4. The ordaining body, before investing a man with office, shall provide, or assure itself that he has received, such training and testing of gifts as may be necessary for the proper performance of the duties required by the office.
> 
> 5. Ordination shall be performed by the body which examines the candidate. In the case of deacons and ruling elders it shall be by the session, except that when a congregation is without a session the presbytery shall ordain such officers as have been elected by the congregation and approved by the presbytery. In the case of ministers ordination shall be by the presbytery.
> 
> 6. Installation is the act by which a person who has been chosen to perform official work in the church, having been ordained, is placed in position to do that work. When a man receives his first call to a service his ordination and installation shall be performed at the same time.



If you want to read more specifically about the process of installing and ordaining a minister to a pastorate, you can find it here. It's a bit long, so I'll just link to it.

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BrianOrr said:


> I just have seen banner ads on the internet that say "click here to become ordained!",


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## Wannabee

Ordination is debatable. Spurgeon never was. He refused to be, claiming his ordination was from God. I haven't been and am not worried about it. Often it is a pride engendering service where a man can show how much he knows and gets official sanction to preach from knowledgeable men who may be noted for their knowledge rather than their godliness. However, there are different understanding of what ordination entails as well, so some clarity may be needed if someone says someone must be ordained to be a pastor. For instance, if it's the laying on of hands in recognition that a man is biblically qualified then there can really be no argument against it. But usually this refers to an official time of question, or sometimes grilling, a candidate to verify their capability, knowledge and perhaps some other credentials in order to get a stamp of approval from a certain group then, while it may be a good idea in some sense, it is not a biblical mandate.

Paul's letter to Titus seems to give the clearest account of what may be an ordination. 


Titus 1:5-9
5For this reason I left you in Crete, that you should set in order the things that are lacking, and* appoint elders in every city* as I commanded you— 6if a man is blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of dissipation or insubordination. 7For a bishop must be blameless, as a steward of God, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, 8but hospitable, a lover of what is good, sober-minded, just, holy, self-controlled, 9holding fast the faithful word as he has been taught, that he may be able, by sound doctrine, both to exhort and convict those who contradict.


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## KMK

In CA, you do not need to be licensed or ordained to perform weddings. Ordination, whatever it looks like, is simply the church officially recognizing a man's calling and equipping for a particular office.



> LBC 26, Paragraph 9. The way appointed by Christ for the calling of any person, fitted and gifted by the Holy Spirit, unto the office of bishop or elder in a church, is, that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church itself;16 and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer, with imposition of hands of the eldership of the church, if there be any before constituted therein;17 and of a deacon that he be chosen by the like suffrage, and set apart by prayer, and the like imposition of hands.


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## BrianOrr

Thanks everyone. Good group of folks in here, so quick to teach and help.


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## raekwon

BrianOrr said:


> Is ordination just for doing weddings, funerals, etc?


 
It's funny that you say that, Brian. I was asking myself something similar just the other day -- not about what ordination _*is*_ (biblically), really, but about what it's essentially come to mean in the wider culture. "Ordination" has largely become a way to get some respect in the community by putting a "Rev." in front of one's name, and gives one the ability to pick up a little extra cash by performing the occasional wedding or funeral. (Even though there's no legal requirement for officiating funerals, as far as I know.) It's silly and I'm thankful that at least some churches treat ordination as what it truly is -- the church's recognition and ratification of God's call to office.


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## BJClark

In some states, counties within states, even to visit people in jail in the capacity of 'minister/pastor' they need to have a piece of paper that says they are 'ordained' ministers...or they won't let them in to visit them even if they are members of their congregation..in order for our pastor to go visit my son he had to get a paper from the Presbytery saying he was ordained..

For performing weddings...a person doesn't have to be ordained to perform a wedding, they could be a Notary Public, so anyone who has a Notary (for the State of Florida, in the State of Florida) can perform a wedding ceremony..


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## Wayne

You might find this article by R.J. Breckinridge helpful: Presbyterian Ordination Not a Charm But An Act of Government


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## JP Wallace

Wannabee said:


> Ordination is debatable. Spurgeon never was. He refused to be, claiming his ordination was from God.



While not commenting on Spurgeon himself I think his opinion is very wrong, as I believe a number of Spurgeon's views on church government matters were. Why? Should we receive the teaching and oversight and care of men purely because they claim to be gifted, and called and commissioned directly by God? Isn't this where all the cults have sprung from? The call, and gifting and preaching etc. of a man MUST I believe be verified and ratified by the Church of Christ and primarily by those with God-ordained spiritual oversight of the Church - the elders, and the text you cite is among the ones I would turn to.

This ratification is best expressed through the laying on of hands/ordination.


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## Wannabee

Paul,

You may be right. It seems that Spurgeon was concerned about the same things I voiced, that it had become a human credential, and he would not ascribe to it. Keep in mind the battles he faced in his day. They were very similar to what we face today, but, as he noted, the pressure was immense. He even admitted that the battle was killing him in regard to the Downgrade Controversy. I would submit that this goes hand in hand with the humanistic reasoning that was on the rise during the latter part of the 19th century.
Much of this depends upon the understood definition of "ordination." Recognition and laying on of hands are good. It can be simple and affirming for both the man and the church. But it can just as easily, and often is, a source of pride and opportunity to promote scholarship above character. When we sacrifice character on the altar of scholarship then we've denigrated our calling. I have been recognized as having the knowledge through my education. But I was much more encouraged by my own church's recognition of the character that God prescribes for elders.


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