# signs of the times



## Bladestunner316 (Feb 24, 2004)

what are the signs that Christ's return is near?

blade


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## Puritan Sailor (Feb 24, 2004)

Matt 24 (NKJV)
9&quot;Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name's sake. 10And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come. 

36 &quot;But of that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven,[5] but My Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 38For as in the days before the flood, they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noah entered the ark, 39and did not know until the flood came and took them all away, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 

2 Thess 2
3Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin[2] is revealed, the son of perdition, 4who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God[3] in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 


A few elements have yet to take place.
1) The gospel must be preached to all nations and all the elect must be gathered in. 
2) The lawless one must be revealed.
3) A great apostacy of the visible church.


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## rembrandt (Feb 24, 2004)

the &quot;last days&quot; began 2000 years ago. question to anyone: What is there in Matt. 24, 2 Thess. 2 etc., that has not been the case since the fall? I mean all of these things have been happening since then.


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## Me Died Blue (Feb 24, 2004)

Paul, are you speaking in defense of preterism, or simply referring to passages like Hebrews 1:1?

Chris


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## rembrandt (Feb 24, 2004)

[quote:103be30ed1][i:103be30ed1]Originally posted by Me Died Blue[/i:103be30ed1]
Paul, are you speaking in defense of preterism, or simply referring to passages like Hebrews 1:1?

Chris [/quote:103be30ed1]

Neither (I don't think). False prophets, lawlessness, apostacy, people claiming to be God, have all happened. I'm not saying that this is what the text is referring to. &quot;Revealing the son of perdition&quot; could be the only thing that hasn't happened if he's speaking of a specific antichrist figure. But still, there's already been plenty antichrist figures, even &quot;sitting in the temple of God.&quot; 

I am eshatologically ignorant (as of now). But it's just that its quite evident from the biblical descriptions that these are the last days. But the &quot;last days&quot; according to the descriptions have been around since the fall.

Rembrandt


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## Bladestunner316 (Feb 24, 2004)

ps,
thanks for your post.You see Im absolutelly in love with studying the ante-dilluvian time period preciselly because of what Jesus said about the end days mirroring the days of noah and what gets me is that we really no so little about the events of those times outside of the issues dealt with in genesis.

blade


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## Puritan Sailor (Feb 25, 2004)

[quote:70a46919ff][i:70a46919ff]Originally posted by rembrandt[/i:70a46919ff]
the &quot;last days&quot; began 2000 years ago. question to anyone: What is there in Matt. 24, 2 Thess. 2 etc., that has not been the case since the fall? I mean all of these things have been happening since then. [/quote:70a46919ff]

Stuff like that has been happening on a local level yes, but never on a world wide scope. That is the key. We often think the end is coming becuase of the great apostacy of the American churches, but it is not that bad in other nations. The church is still flourishing in other areas of the world. What will mark the end is the world wide scope of all these things (apostacy, earthquakes, wars, etc.), helping to set the stage for the lawless one to be revealed.


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## Puritan Sailor (Feb 25, 2004)

[quote:e5f6c8ca67][i:e5f6c8ca67]Originally posted by Bladestunner316[/i:e5f6c8ca67]
ps,
thanks for your post.You see Im absolutelly in love with studying the ante-dilluvian time period preciselly because of what Jesus said about the end days mirroring the days of noah and what gets me is that we really no so little about the events of those times outside of the issues dealt with in genesis.

blade [/quote:e5f6c8ca67]
Human nature has not changed brother. It probably was not much different than the direction our own country has taken now (though I think we still have a ways to go).


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## Philip A (Feb 25, 2004)

[quote:2877b49ebb][i:2877b49ebb]Originally posted by Bladestunner316[/i:2877b49ebb]
...what Jesus said about the end days mirroring the days of noah and what gets me is that we really no so little about the events of those times outside of the issues dealt with in genesis...[/quote:2877b49ebb]

In Matthew 24 Jesus is not saying that conditions in the world at the time of his return will be like the conditions in the ante-dilluvian world.

24:36 is effectively the &quot;thesis statement&quot; of the passage (36-51) that makes up the Lord's answer to the [i:2877b49ebb]second[/i:2877b49ebb] question asked in verse 3: &quot;what will be the sign of your coming, and of the close of the age?&quot; The answer is given in verse 36, namely that [i:2877b49ebb]no one knows the day or the hour[/i:2877b49ebb]. In other words, don't look for a sign. This is then illustrated by the Lord in verses 37-40.

He says that the last days will be like the days of Noah. OK, in what way? Keeping with the context, Christ is saying that in those days the people were going about the normal life activities to which they were accustomed (eating, drinking, marrying, giving in marriage) [i:2877b49ebb]right up until the day of the flood.[/i:2877b49ebb] The emphasis is on the suddenness of the flood in cotrast to the normal carryings on of the day, not that conditions will &quot;match up&quot; between the end times and the ante-delluvian days.

The next illustration (vv 40-42) is the same. There's no rapture going on here, the emphasis is on the fact that when Christ returns it will be unexpected, and people will be busy going about their daily lives (working in the field, grinding at the mill, i.e. normal work activities), and not expecting that Christ could return at any moment. The rest of the verses, 41-51 are the application of what Christ is saying, i.e., be ready, because you do not know the day or the hour.

Does that help?


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## rembrandt (Feb 25, 2004)

[quote:2e93fad1e9]Stuff like that has been happening on a local level yes, but never on a world wide scope. That is the key. We often think the end is coming becuase of the great apostacy of the American churches, but it is not that bad in other nations. The church is still flourishing in other areas of the world. What will mark the end is the world wide scope of all these things (apostacy, earthquakes, wars, etc.), helping to set the stage for the lawless one to be revealed.[/quote:2e93fad1e9]

American churches have it good. I was thinking about churches overseas.


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## A_Wild_Boar (Feb 25, 2004)

What is the difference between preterism and hyper preterism? Are both heresy?


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## Bladestunner316 (Feb 25, 2004)

ps,
I wast talking about human nature being changed I was talking about key events etc... that are not mentioned in scripture that could be relevant to the development of the end result ie all the things that lead to the flood mirroring the same things leading up to the second coming so on.


blade


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## Bladestunner316 (Feb 25, 2004)

philip a,
for those who ignored the signs and lived a normal day to day life were un prepared for the consequences.

but there were signs God told noah and he preached to the people besides how could people not realize he was building an ark right in fornt of them he had to have told them why he was doing this and they obviouselly ignored him.

blade


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