# Is Ben justified in being leery of social networking sites like Facebook?



## SolaScriptura (Feb 24, 2009)

Fred's recent thread about Facebook reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask here.

Between sites like MySpace and Facebook I can say that I have counseled over 40 Soldiers who through those sites either they or their spouse "reconnected" with someone and ended up commiting adultery. When I add my experiences to those of the other chaplains I know... well, it seems that sites like MySpace and Facebook serve as a veritable breeding ground for reconnecting with former friends and flames with often very detrimental consequence.

As a result of what I encounter on an all-too-often basis, I have forbade my wife or me to sign up. My wife has submitted to me, but she thinks I'm a kook. 

What say ye? Am I a kook? Or am I just reacting normally to something that I see quite often?


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## OPC'n (Feb 24, 2009)

I think it depends on the person. If you know that you guys love Christ and each other more than others, then I don't think it would be a problem for you guys.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 24, 2009)

sjonee said:


> I think it depends on the person. If you know that you guys love Christ and each other more than others, then I don't think it would be a problem for you guys.



What if I know that I love my wife and my wife loves me and we both love Christ... but I also know what evil lurks in the hearts of men?


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## OPC'n (Feb 24, 2009)

You don't have to worry about other men because you guys love Christ and each other so much that other people look dismal to you! What would be the attraction? NOTHING! Others might have evil intensions but you cast those people off!


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## Herald (Feb 24, 2009)

Ben, I can't tell you what you should or should not do, but I can tell you what my wife and I have done. She has my password and I have hers. We've agreed to be transparent with our FB accounts. That includes all posts, including PM's. It works for us.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 24, 2009)

sjonee said:


> You don't have to worry about other men because you guys love Christ and each other so much that other people look dismal to you! What would be the attraction? NOTHING! Others might have evil intensions but you cast those people off!



Well, I've dealt with a case of adultery virtually every week I've been a chaplain. Sometimes more than once a week. And I've been a chaplain about 3 years. You do the math....

In only a few cases was there intent to go out and find someone with whom he/she could "hook up." In the vast majority of the cases - and all of the ones I've dealt with involving Facebook or MySpace - there was no intent. It started out innocently enough. But one thing led to another, emotional connections were made - for a woman, that is the thing - and before you know it... the deed is done.

I know the frailty of mankind. And I know that even Christians who love the Lord and their spouse are not immune from stumbling. And I see the consequences of Facebook rekindling former feelings all too often.

So am I overreacting?


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## fredtgreco (Feb 24, 2009)

Ben,

I think that you are not seeing a significant increase of adulterers _because of_ Facebook, but an increase of adulterers _using_ Facebook. This kind of behavior has always been common. But now it is simply easier to engage in sinful behavior using a computer than otherwise. If the computer were not there, most would simply use other means. 

That is not to say that technology should not make us more wary. It is obviously easier to access p*rn in the safety of your den than to go to a seedy (and crime ridden) part of town to go into a shop. So there is some increase and concern.

Personally, I view Facebook (who knows how long I will be on) as an extension of my ministry. It amazes me. I have already had some substantive chats with teens and pre-teens in our church. (and it does not hurt for them to know that their Pastor "friend" can see their Wall!


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## OPC'n (Feb 24, 2009)

I can only speak to you not those you counsel. You and many others here are fervent in your love for Christ and their wives/husbands. To tell you the truth, I've never seen so much love between spouses. It's impressive but I think that it only exists because of what you have with Christ. So I guess I would do what your conscious tells you or Herald had a good idea. You are the leader in you house and have to bear all the consequences...not an easy task so do what makes it easier.


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## historyb (Feb 24, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> Fred's recent thread about Facebook reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask here.
> 
> Between sites like MySpace and Facebook I can say that I have counseled over 40 Soldiers who through those sites either they or their spouse "reconnected" with someone and ended up commiting adultery. When I add my experiences to those of the other chaplains I know... well, it seems that sites like MySpace and Facebook serve as a veritable breeding ground for reconnecting with former friends and flames with often very detrimental consequence.
> 
> ...


I always have had an apprehension for facebook and myspace, not sure why but it's there. At the college I am forever telling students to get off those two sites, it bcomes like an idol to them.


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## fredtgreco (Feb 24, 2009)

I'm no expert, but I think MySpace is more dangerous. While doing some research for parents on the dangers of social networking, I came across more than one "fan site" of a p*rn actress who was "discovered" (according to the bio) by a "producer" trolling on MySpace for "new talent."

Ugh.


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## Zenas (Feb 24, 2009)

I have no former flames. My wife was like the 4th date I ever went on. I went on two dates with the same girl before that, and then one other 1st date.


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## TaylorOtwell (Feb 24, 2009)

In answer to your topic - Yes, I think it is justifiable to be concerned with Facebook and MySpace. At the least, if not used wisely, they can become a huge waste of time. The sheer addictive draw that they have causes me to be wary.


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## TimV (Feb 24, 2009)

Personally, I'm open to arguments on both sides. I will say, though, that several of my kids sent me friend requests, so I can see what they are doing. And they've always given me their passwords for everything, if I asked.

As to computers, they are just an extension of writing; just more efficient. Dangers? Sure. So I'm still open about computers, TV, movies, books etc...and even letters sent through the post office, because at the end of the day, they are differences of degree, but not kind, right?

And to the benefits of more efficient communication, there's just not enough that can be said. Just today this particular form of communication (the PB) was the cause of something good in my community.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 24, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> Ben,
> 
> I think that you are not seeing a significant increase of adulterers _because of_ Facebook, but an increase of adulterers _using_ Facebook. This kind of behavior has always been common. But now it is simply easier to engage in sinful behavior using a computer than otherwise. If the computer were not there, most would simply use other means.
> 
> ...



Fred,

I'm not talking about **** and I'm not talking about adulterers looking for their next pickup. I'm talking about two people who have a "normal" mundane marriage... one of them suddenly finds an old friend - not even necessarily a former boyfriend/girlfriend - and they start chatting, remembering shared memories... and one thing leads to another, they start talking about their current lives... and it snowballs. 

To the extent that Facebook has made it possible to reconnect with people you've LONG since lost any and all contact with, it does represent a "new" threat.


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## Brother John (Feb 24, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> Fred's recent thread about Facebook reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask here.
> 
> Between sites like MySpace and Facebook I can say that I have counseled over 40 Soldiers who through those sites either they or their spouse "reconnected" with someone and ended up commiting adultery. When I add my experiences to those of the other chaplains I know... well, it seems that sites like MySpace and Facebook serve as a veritable breeding ground for reconnecting with former friends and flames with often very detrimental consequence.
> 
> ...



Ben,
My wife and I have entered into the world of digits together. We share an email addresses and we share one FB account. This way we each see everything we do. We have a filter and my wife has the password. We have done all we can think of to remove the temptation. When we set up our FB we used both our first names with a "-" in between as our first name on the account. We have had to seek out everyone. No one has looked us up from either side. It has actually been really nice to just have close friends and family on our FB. Well anyways thats just my


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## Scottish Lass (Feb 24, 2009)

We have each other's passwords and plenty of mutual friends. Is the risk there? Yes, but not an undue one in our situation. But every marriage is different.


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## fredtgreco (Feb 24, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Ben,
> ...



Yes, but think about 25-50 years ago. There was no Facebook, but my guess is that 75%+ of the people who went to High School together wound up living within 100 miles of each other. Except for the military, and some specialized professions, people stayed around "home." So there was a *far* greater chance of suddenly finding a friend/flame at the Rodeo, the Grocery store, the football game, etc. Now that is very remote. In fact, the majority of people who went to High School with me now live hundreds/thousands of miles away. So enter Facebook into the gap.

Same thing, but different. And I will admit that there is a more "innocent on the face of it" danger than talking face to face. But I don't think it is totally other.

I would also say that when "normal mundane" people throw away a marriage on such, they really are adulterers in waiting.

Do you understand my point?


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## SemperEruditio (Feb 24, 2009)

Not sure who Ben is, but he sounds like a kook. 

I signed up and have 100+ "friends." No hookups but I was the kook back then so I'm safe. My wife signed up and she has hooked up with friends from when her family was stationed in Germany during junior high school years. Old boyfriends have sprouted up but we had already talked about them long ago. At this point it is all the new "friends" who want to be added to her list that we both are skeptical about. She has full access to my profile and I hers. She goes on mine more than I do but then again I married a Puerto Rican and they are known for their jealousy. 

Ben should do what is best for Ben and his family. As an Army brat my wife has reconnected to friends from all over the world and is happier for it. Me? I would rather forget but that's for a confessionary...


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## Craig (Feb 24, 2009)

For anyone that finds an adulterous meeting particularly tantalizing...think about this: your list of friends is available to whoever you're tempted to sin with...all he/she/it has to do is click each friend on your list and introduce him/her/itself as your new boy/girl/itfriend.

Adulterous affairs may be a result of facebook...but affairs happen regardless of facebook, especially when it comes to the military (ducks tomatoes). That's the reality. I have a friend who was in the Navy...he told me how rampant affairs were and how many "lonely" wives frequently cheated on their husbands with other officers.

The greater danger to facebook, in my opinion, is how many people open up that much more of their lives that ought to be private and wear their whims on their sleeves.


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## matt01 (Feb 24, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> As a result of what I encounter on an all-too-often basis, I have forbade my wife or me to sign up. My wife has submitted to me, but she thinks I'm a kook.



I am grateful that my wife hates Facebook. During the couple of weeks that I had an account, she took great pleasure in teasing me about it...I do agree that it is a dangerous thing, not inherently, but certainly adding possibilities. You can never go back, and reconnecting with the past is often a bad idea.

I dislike Facebook for a number of reasons, one of which is the fact that it contributes greatly to the information overload that we all suffer from. There isn't enough time in the day for all the nonsense on those sites.


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## Kevin (Feb 24, 2009)

That is not kooky at all! 

I heard of one guy who commited adultry after reading the personal ads in the local paper... 

So of course we immediatly stopped reading the paper!

Then I heard about this man who left his wife & kids to run off with someone he met at work...

So of course I quit my job!

Then my DW told me that her sister knew of a woman who had an affair with their pastor...

So of course we HAD to stop going to church!

Now we live in a shack in the woods of Idaho. With plenty of canned goods, and the eggs that our chickens lay, along with all of the Y2K food that we hadn't used we ain't hardly lost any weight!

Plus our young'uns are getting a great education (far from temptation!) & they can help me load more ammo with that reloading equipment I bought with the money I made off of selling all of those temptation-filled books I sold!

The onlyist problem I got left is that my wife keeps saying that temptation comes from the heart & not from the radio & I ain't aught to have smashed our last one.

Myself, I think that that woman got a debbil in her! Mayhaps I should try to beat it out of her? What do y'all think?


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## VictorBravo (Feb 24, 2009)

Kevin said:


> That is not kooky at all!
> 
> I heard of one guy who commited adultry after reading the personal ads in the local paper...
> 
> ...



I think a lot of that sounds fun! I can't endorse the Y2k food, or avoiding church, though. Chicken eggs and reloading, well, that seems pretty good to me.


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## Rangerus (Feb 24, 2009)

If you go to the barbershop often enough, sooner or later you are going to get a haircut. that is all.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 24, 2009)

Some of you have mentioned being on there and how you and your spouse have open unrestricted access to each other's account. I think that if you're married and going to be on Facebook or MySpace then this is definitely the way to go: There needs to be total transparency IF you're going to be on there.

-----Added 2/24/2009 at 11:03:20 EST-----



Kevin said:


> That is not kooky at all!
> 
> I heard of one guy who commited adultry after reading the personal ads in the local paper...
> 
> ...



My objections aren't based upon hearing of someONE or even SOME people having affairs based upon Facebook/MySpace connections... my objections are based upon personally counseling over FORTY Soldiers or spouses left to pick up the pieces after their spouse committed adultery with someone they met or reconnected with on those sites... and my personal experiences are confirmed by virtually every chaplain I meet. Being on Facebook and MySpace and eventually falling into adultery is almost a proverb amongst me and my peers.


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## Kevin (Feb 24, 2009)

Ben, The number of people who commit adultry in a given year is no doubt in the millions. My post was meant to be a parody of the kind of "reasons" I heard so often as a fundy to justify the strange new edicts that came from Greenville.

The fact that aprox 28% of your personal counseling situations involve facebook is corollary, not causative.

I would bet (very safely) that over 90% of those 150+ cases you dealt with involved the use of a telephone or a motor vehicle.

These are all inanimate objects used to further a sinfull desire. The objects themselves are not to blame.

This is an important point.

Would you tell your wife that she may no longer enjoy a beer or a glass of wine, because 28% of your spousal abouse cases involve someone (abusing) alcohol?

If not, why not?

If so, then I have nothing to add.


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## Grymir (Feb 24, 2009)

I hear those all the time. About affairs on face book and such. Sure, a person could have an affair from the paper, or work, or church. But these web things give another, more easy access. Much easier. And easier to hide. There's also a difference about having a business or group on those sites and a page about me personally. I'd never do it. I even have my instant messenger set up so only my wife can call me. It's an extrovert thing too! I wouldn't want that much public contact. Me, my wife, and my little introvert world. I like to have big boundaries around our marriage. 

And that's what alot of it boils down to. Boundaries. Building a fence around my marriage. A husband should never have a female friend. And be very, very selective about who is his friends.


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## kalawine (Feb 24, 2009)

Herald said:


> Ben, I can't tell you what you should or should not do, but I can tell you what my wife and I have done. She has my password and I have hers. We've agreed to be transparent with our FB accounts. That includes all posts, including PM's. It works for us.



Accountability is a wonderful thing!


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## OPC'n (Feb 24, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> Some of you have mentioned being on there and how you and your spouse have open unrestricted access to each other's account. I think that if you're married and going to be on Facebook or MySpace then this is definitely the way to go: There needs to be total transparency IF you're going to be on there.
> 
> -----Added 2/24/2009 at 11:03:20 EST-----
> 
> ...



I think you should just stay off it. I'm sure your wife understands your reasoning and being off of it gives comfort to you. You're really not missing that much!


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## KMK (Feb 25, 2009)

I don't think Ben is way off on this one. I had an account for about 2 weeks and ended up restarting relationships which, upon further reflection, were best left dormant. For many, not necessarily on PB, it is a situation of all things being lawful but not expedient. I think you are wise to stay away from Facebook and within reason to counsel others to do the same.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 25, 2009)

Kevin said:


> The fact that aprox 28% of your personal counseling situations involve facebook is corollary, not causative.
> 
> I would bet (very safely) that over 90% of those 150+ cases you dealt with involved the use of a telephone or a motor vehicle.



Hold on, 28% of my counseling is not about adultery... I was just giving you a reference point for the number of times I've dealt with it.

In terms of total number of counseling, I average 2 in-office counseling sessions a day. I don't bother to keep track of impromptu counseling sessions that occur as I'm walking around being with Soldiers.


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## Kim G (Feb 25, 2009)

My husband and I are both on Facebook. We only accept friend requests from people we know well. Most of my friends are girls I went to school with who are now getting married and having children. It's great to catch up with them.

Hubby and I have been on each other's Facebook sites. His friends are my friends and my friends are his friends. I think it's important to be transparent with your spouse in all things, Facebook or no. If something happens when I'm at work that needs telling or explaining or advice, I talk to hubby. He's not there to police me all day, but I trust that the Holy Spirit will lead me away from sinful things that I might encounter. Same with Facebook.

Facebook affairs are probably rampant because the tool of Facebook is so extensively used. People used to meet at their high school reunions and exchange phone numbers "innocently", and affairs would start. People's hearts haven't changed. Only their methods.


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## JoeRe4mer (Feb 25, 2009)

I don't think you are a kook at all Ben. There are certain realities to these social networking sights that many supporters do not fully acknowledge. 

First and most obvious is the danger of some nut job seeing your photograph and trying to stalk you. Yes I know many will say this cant/wont happen but there are enough documented cases of it to prove the danger. There have been all kinds of stories about young kids and adults for that matter meeting some (nice person) on a networking site only to run off and get themselves hurt. Moreover, everything on these sites can be faked and when you do go to meet your (new friend) from the net they may not be who or what you were expecting.

MySpace: Your Kids' Danger? - CBS News
Secondly, what about privacy? To me having my or my family's pictures plastered all over the internet is not a good thing. Its very easy to download those pictures and who knows _where_ they will wind up. 

Thirdly, all to often these sites become idols. I cant tell you the amount of time I've seen people wasting on these things. At my current university and the public library I've seen _hundreds_ of people just sitting and staring at nothing. Do kids/adults really need another blank screen to stare at? 

Finally, I do understand that these sites are not "inherently sinful" in and of themselves but should not Christian prudence dictate that we avoid things that could unnecessarily put our family and friends at risk from predators? Given the obvious risks why not just _network_ in person or by phone or E-mail with people you already know?


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## he beholds (Feb 25, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> To the extent that Facebook has made it possible to reconnect with people you've LONG since lost any and all contact with, it does represent a "new" threat.



Ben, I think you are justified in being leery about facebook for your family. I personally don't think that has to translate to not using it, but I do think your choice to not use it is a justifiable one. Perhaps military unfaithfulness is a big problem, anyway. I imagine there are a lot of lonely people there. 

Facebook is what you want it to be. You don't have to accept or seek friend requests from people whom you once dated. You don't have to accept/seek them from people of the opposite sex, even. 
I have a ton of friends on facebook, but I hardly ever talk to many of them. I like to keep the friends, though, because there may be a reason someday when I would want to talk to someone, or at least know what's going on in their lives. I also like to use it to share pictures of our life with friends and family far away (which is all of our family and virtually all of our friends). My profile is set up so that not all people can see all things on my account. 
For instance, several of my old students are on there and are my friends. I put them all in one group, and I don't let the group see my status updates, because every once in awhile it'll say things like, "jessica is sitting around the fire drinking yuengling."
I don't want kids in h.s., where drinking is not allowed, to see me as an example for drinking, without the ability to talk to them about that difference. 

I actually spend way more time on here than I do on fb, though. 
Does your wife have a way to connect with far away friends? It is nice to be able to share your life with people far away. I definitely am not telling you what to do! I don't know you or your wife really, or what type of stress military life might add to a marriage. But does your wife have a PB equivalent? Maybe she doesn't need one, but I know I love the adult interaction throughout the day that I wouldn't get otherwise--FB can be a place like that. 



Rangerus said:


> If you go to the barbershop often enough, sooner or later you are going to get a haircut. that is all.



What are you saying?????


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## Kevin (Feb 25, 2009)

Ben, I took your coment & "did the math" as you suggested. You said that you have aprox one adultry case a week, for the past 3 years. Of this number around 40 of the cases involved a "hook-up" that started on face book.

So being an estimator I rounded it off as follows; 150 cases of adultry with 40 linked to FB= 28% of your adultry related counseling work has social networking as a factor.

My only point was that there exists a high degree of probability that other factors (phones, cars, ?) are also "linked" to these infidelities.

Thus I would suggest that these factors (including FB) are corollary & not causative.

BTW I am convinced that to use any means to advance a sinful purpose is, in and of itself, a sinful act. So to use facebook to plan a sin, is a sin. So the person has comitted 2 seperate sinful acts. Per WCF LC & SC anything that "tends toward" is included in the list of sins forbiden. 

However the way I view the causistry is that adultry is a sin proper, and the means employed to commit the sin are sins incidental. In other words, the guilt that one has from the committing of adultry is absolute. The guilt that one has from using FB depends on the use, and is not FB qua FB.

If that makes sense...


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## Pilgrim (Feb 25, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> I have already had some substantive chats with teens and pre-teens in our church. (and it does not hurt for them to know that their Pastor "friend" can see their Wall!



 for parents. 

I'm sure many kids thought FB was "ruined" when old people started joining.


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## Marrow Man (Feb 25, 2009)

Well, since I never really had a girlfriend in high school or college, there's not much of a temptation to go there.

Ben, thank you for drawing attention to this, though, as I had no idea this was as rampant as it is.

And it's not that FB is inherently evil or anything of the sort. Anything can be taken and twisted and used as a device for evil-doing. I remember reading several years ago (please don't ask for a source!) that after the invention of photographic technology (the old silver flash version, If I recall correctly), with a month someone was arrested for taking naked photographs. The nature of sin is that sinful men and women will use whatever devices exist to engage in sin acts.


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## asc (Feb 25, 2009)

in my opinion, Facebook like most technology is neutral. It's all in how it's used. It can be a tool for witnessing or getting into an affair. Just like the internet is a great way for sharing sermons and teaching Christians but is also an easy way for spreading p*rn. I think being cautious is a great idea, but shouldn't necessarily preclude participation. But certainly you know yourself and your spouse best. But I would think that most of the affairs that you heard about were in marriages which were already shakey or had unresolved issues with the ex-boyfriend/girlfriend. My wife and I share all passwords, not just for FB but for all accounts. (I would encourage any parents with children using it be very vigiliant.) If you're still not sure, you could try Blev3rd's suggestion and have a shared account. If you have shared e-mail access, you should be all set.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 25, 2009)

Kevin said:


> Ben, I took your coment & "did the math" as you suggested. You said that you have aprox one adultry case a week, for the past 3 years. Of this number around 40 of the cases involved a "hook-up" that started on face book.
> 
> So being an estimator I rounded it off as follows; 150 cases of adultry with 40 linked to FB= 28% of your adultry related counseling work...



Ok, that's fine... your original quote says "28% of your personal counseling situations..." I thought you'd made the jump and thought I was giving numbers for my total counseling load. Just trying to set the record straight.


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## Kevin (Feb 25, 2009)

BTW Ben, do find that counseling is one of your main tasks as a chaplain?


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 25, 2009)

Kevin said:


> BTW Ben, do find that counseling is one of your main tasks as a chaplain?



Yes, it is one of my main tasks.... and because I am free to counsel in accordance with the tenets of my particular faith, my counseling affords me the opportunity to share the Gospel with an unbeliever on an almost daily basis.


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 25, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> Fred's recent thread about Facebook reminded me of a question I've been meaning to ask here.
> 
> Between sites like MySpace and Facebook I can say that I have counseled over 40 Soldiers who through those sites either they or their spouse "reconnected" with someone and ended up commiting adultery. When I add my experiences to those of the other chaplains I know... well, it seems that sites like MySpace and Facebook serve as a veritable breeding ground for reconnecting with former friends and flames with often very detrimental consequence.
> 
> ...


I think that's a valid concern. For me, I had no "flames" to worry about re-kindling since I was never a "ladies man" but have always been a bit reclusive.

As I noted in another thread, I don't become "Friends" with people I don't really know and am especially reticent about accepting Friends requests from young women. For me, it's sort of like the same reason I don't hug other women and am more of a hand shaker.

Facebook is kind of cool at re-connecting with people you haven't heard from in High School but I otherwise don't find it too personally useful.


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