# Any masons on the board?



## Kevin (Jan 26, 2007)

Not bricklayers the kind with the funny hats. (no offense intended if you wear funny hats ) I am a bit curious about peoples views on the subject. In the part of the reformed word I am familiar with it is looked down on if not banned outright. I do know however that for baptists and some Presbyterians it is part of the social expectations that seem to go along with church membership. 

I even know one denomination That was formed over the right of elders to be masons.

So what is the perspective of the various PB members? Are any members masons? Could you tell us if you were?


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## MrMerlin777 (Jan 26, 2007)

This hardly answers your question but reveals a bit of my attitude regarding the subject. 

I am not a member of the Lodge nor would I ever be. My dad is a 3rd degree master Mason and frankly I wish he'd leave it alone.


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## CDM (Jan 26, 2007)

Kevin said:


> Not bricklayers the kind with the funny hats. (no offense intended if you wear funny hats ) I am a bit curious about peoples views on the subject. In the part of the reformed word I am familiar with it is looked down on if not banned outright. I do know however that for baptists and some Presbyterians it is part of the social expectations that seem to go along with church membership.
> 
> I even know one denomination That was formed over the right of elders to be masons.
> 
> So what is the perspective of the various PB members? Are any members masons? Could you tell us if you were?



You must be kidding right? Free Masons?

What pretend Baptist or Presbyterian is a part of this satanic organization?

Curious: what denomination(s) are you referring too? List them please.

I am willing to wager 100% of PB members are NOT in fellowship with free masonry.

...oh please, oh please, oh please...


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## BobVigneault (Jan 26, 2007)

Not me but I used to be a carpenter. Never worked with bricks though.


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## jaybird0827 (Jan 26, 2007)

I used to be a member of "The Lodge" (3rd degree). By the grace of God I repented and subsequently demitted, going on 30 years ago. That stuff is "straight from the Pit."


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## Kevin (Jan 26, 2007)

PCUSA, PCC, C of S, Southern Baptist, and at least one of the "split-P" groups.

I am not a fan myself. Far from it. I was just wondering if any here were members. Since this is a very conservative group, I wanted to know if any from "our side" were in the lodge.


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## Kevin (Jan 26, 2007)

jaybird0827 said:


> I used to be a member of "The Lodge" (3rd degree). By the grace of God I repented and subsequently demitted, going on 30 years ago. That stuff is "straight from the Pit."



Jay, that is very interesting. What led you out? Did you have any teaching from your church on it?


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 26, 2007)

Kevin said:


> and at least one of the "split-P" groups.



Which one is this?


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## VictorBravo (Jan 26, 2007)

To quote Jerry Jeff Walker:

"And I broke all my vows to DeMolay--eee!"

I'd be surprised if anyone here is a mason. I was in DeMolay in high school. It's sort of a masonic adjunct for high school boys. It was a big deal in a small town, most of the prominent men were Masons. I was not at all a Christian, and I don't recall running into anybody who claimed to be. It officially revered the Bible by placing it next to "school books" on an alter-like stand in the center of the room. Nobody read from it. 

At the time I thought of masonry as a club for men to get out of the house and do rituals recreationally. Perhaps it was for most. But a friend and I ran across one of the secret initiatory books in a closet in the masonic hall. After reading it through we both thought it was creepy. Shortly after, I resigned as Past Master Counsellor and never had any association with it again.


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## Blueridge Believer (Jan 26, 2007)

My church would throw me out if I were to join such an organization, and rightly so. I can't see how any christian could fall before a man and call him "worshipfull master". jmo.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 26, 2007)

Me Died Blue said:


> Which one is this?



I would venture to guess that Kevin is referring to the Reformed Presbyterian Church - Hanover Presbytery.


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## CDM (Jan 26, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> I would venture to guess that Kevin is referring to the Reformed Presbyterian Church - Hanover Presbytery.



 How do you know?


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## Richard King (Jan 26, 2007)

No, 
not a member. NEVER will be.
My grandparents were BIG in it. It seems strong in West Texas towns.
My dad told me to never go near it. 
I will always owe him for that.
It is inconsistant with my faith.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 26, 2007)

mangum said:


> How do you know?



A well-known leading minister in that denomination who also publishes _The Christian Observer_ is a Free Mason. 

Dr. Edwin P. Elliott, Jr.


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## CDM (Jan 26, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> A well-known leading minister in that denomination who also publishes _The Christian Observer_ is a Free Mason.
> 
> Dr. Edwin P. Elliott, Jr.



Where is the mouth wide-open-jaw-on-the-ground-eyes-bulged-out icon?!

 [this will have to do]


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## Theoretical (Jan 26, 2007)

mangum said:


> Where is the mouth wide-open-jaw-on-the-ground-eyes-bulged-out icon?!
> 
> [this will have to do]


No kidding!


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 26, 2007)

okay, what degree is Grand Chaplain?


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## lv1nothr (Jan 26, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> A well-known leading minister in that denomination who also publishes _The Christian Observer_ is a Free Mason.
> 
> Dr. Edwin P. Elliott, Jr.



         
Not enough of these guys for this one...unbelievable! And the denomination is ok with that I presume?

Come Lord Jesus


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 26, 2007)

The Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church considered a merger with the Hanover Presbytery but declined, I think, at least in part, on the basis on Edwin Elliott's position as a Mason. There was a discussion of the matter here.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 26, 2007)

I'm just a few bricks shy of a full load! Does that count? Can I be in the club? Can I, can I, can I, can I....

: fold arms and pout :


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## MrMerlin777 (Jan 26, 2007)

Contra_Mundum said:


> I'm just a few bricks shy of a full load! Does that count? Can I be in the club? Can I, can I, can I, can I....
> 
> : fold arms and pout :



 

Does one's elevator not going quite to the top count too. And I've some bat's in my bellfry as well.


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## Chris (Jan 26, 2007)

ephesians511.org




www.pcanet.org/history/findingaids/rpces/docsynod/262.html (the Presbyterian Church in America’s historical position on freemasonry) 

http://ag.org/top/beliefs/christian_character/charctr_16_secret_societie.cfm (Pentecostal Assembly of God’s position against secret societies) 

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/14071b.htm (the Catholic Church’s position on secret societies) 

http://www.pb.org/pbdocs/mason.html ( the Primitive Baptist position on freemasonry) 

http://www.thechurchofgod.org/doctrine.shtml (the Church of God's position; located just above the bottom of the page) 

http://www.lcms.org/pages/internal.asp?NavID=2187 (the Lutheran Church – Missouri Synod’s position on freemasonry)


http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/Closer_Look_Freemasonry.pdf 

http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/CL_Bridge_of_Light.pdf 

http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/Compar_Chrt_Freemasonary.pdf 

http://www.opc.org/GA/masonry.html 

http://www.freemethodistchurch.org/Sections/About Us/Beliefs/Christian Life/ Christian%20Conduct/Christian%20Conduct%201.htm 



Some of those links may be old - I just copied them from solmething I posted elsewhere a year ago or so...


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## Scott Bushey (Jan 26, 2007)

Here, let me put on my magical underwear first......Oh, sorry. Thats Mormonism.


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## jaybird0827 (Jan 26, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> A well-known leading minister in that denomination who also publishes _The Christian Observer_ is a Free Mason.
> 
> Dr. Edwin P. Elliott, Jr.


 
_The Christian Observer_ logo includes "the all-seeing eye" Masonic symbol. 

Look on the back of a $1 bill. Note the round seal on the left-hand side with the pyramid structure. The same symbol appears centered underneath the words "annuit coeptis".


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## Ezekiel3626 (Jan 26, 2007)

In Southern Mississippi, I have had numerous encounters with many "well respected" church members who were masons. I personally cannot understand the irony and obvious contradiction between the two (church members/masons), yet I realize the key may be that they are only "church members", and have never experienced conversion. Sad to say, but this sort of accepted contradiction is very prevalent in Southern Baptist churches. I must stress that this post is not an attack on Baptists, for I grew up in a Baptist church, and was only exposed to the doctrines of grace in the last few years. I am simply speaking from experience. Incidentally, thanks for the links, Chris.


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## Chris (Jan 27, 2007)

Ok, I think I cleaned those links up a bit.....

http://www.ag.org/top/Beliefs/charctr_16_secret_societie.cfm
http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-300.doc
http://www.thechurchofgod.org/information/beliefs.php
http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/CL_Bridge_of_Light.pdf
http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/Closer_Look_Freemasonry.pdf
http://www.namb.net/atf/cf/{CDA250E8-8866-4236-9A0C-C646DE153446}/Compar_Chrt_Freemasonary.pdf

http://www.freemethodistchurch.org/Magazine/Articles/Sept-Oct_2003/S-O_2003_McCoon.htm


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## Chris (Jan 27, 2007)

Ezekiel3626 said:


> In Southern Mississippi, I have had numerous encounters with many "well respected" church members who were masons. I personally cannot understand the irony and obvious contradiction between the two (church members/masons), yet I realize the key may be that they are only "church members", and have never experienced conversion. Sad to say, but this sort of accepted contradiction is very prevalent in Southern Baptist churches. I must stress that this post is not an attack on Baptists, for I grew up in a Baptist church, and was only exposed to the doctrines of grace in the last few years. I am simply speaking from experience. Incidentally, thanks for the links, Chris.




If I recall correctly, one of the guys from ephesians511.org lives in Laurel, MS - not too far from your neck of the woods. 

A couple of years ago, I joined their discussion board, and one of their members drove an hour or so to meet me, share some documentation with me, go through some Scripture with me, and pray with me about a friend who was wrapped up in the whole 'secret society' thing. Super-nice guys, all of 'em.


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## bowhunter1961 (Jan 27, 2007)

this subject is close to my heart, my grandaddy was a 32 degree mason/shriner, my uncle is a 3rd degree, my mom and my grandmother are order of the eastern star. god spared me from going to my granddaddys funeral, it was done by the lodge and their chaplian.
when you go through the mock death and you are resurected a mason, you owe your life to the lodge, goin to church is a mockery, owning a bible is just considered furniture. i was pressured to jion the de molay in high school, but was too rebelious.i had most of my granddads mosonic books after he past...i took them before the lodge came to sweep the house. i know their handshakes.when i see a mason, i give him one, it freaks them out, that i kno it, then i share the gospel with them. 
albert pike influianced more than just the lodges.....most all of the college frats. have these secret ideas inplace in their meetings.
ive lost all the books of my granddads, one of the quotes from the books that sticks out in my mind is "God is the author of good and evil".........and that Christ is one path to heaven, just as much as mohommed.
this stuff is evil. no matter how much good works they do. just thinkin back on the talks i had with my granddad makes me sad.


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## rmwilliamsjr (Jan 27, 2007)

Chris said:


> Ok, I think I cleaned those links up a bit.....
> 
> http://www.ag.org/top/Beliefs/charctr_16_secret_societie.cfm
> http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-300.doc
> ...



i found out that there is a term for that--link rot.
the problem of old links aging out and disappearing.


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 27, 2007)

mangum said:


> Where is the mouth wide-open-jaw-on-the-ground-eyes-bulged-out icon?!
> 
> [this will have to do]


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## MICWARFIELD (Jan 27, 2007)

"when you go through the mock death and you are resurected a mason"

Bowhunter - Contrary to popular misconception, The re-enactment of the (fictional) death of Hiram Abif has nothing to do with resurrection or even re-incarnation. The murdered body of Hiram Abif is removed from a hastily dug, temporary grave and taken to the temple for a proper burial. His dead body was raised and transferred elsewhere, not raised in the sense of restoration to life.


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## bookslover (Jan 27, 2007)

bowhunter1961 said:


> this subject is close to my heart, my grandaddy was a 32 degree mason/shriner, my uncle is a 3rd degree, my mom and my grandmother are order of the eastern star. god spared me from going to my granddaddys funeral, it was done by the lodge and their chaplian.
> when you go through the mock death and you are resurected a mason, you owe your life to the lodge, goin to church is a mockery, owning a bible is just considered furniture. i was pressured to jion the de molay in high school, but was too rebelious.i had most of my granddads mosonic books after he past...i took them before the lodge came to sweep the house. i know their handshakes.when i see a mason, i give him one, it freaks them out, that i kno it, then i share the gospel with them.
> albert pike influianced more than just the lodges.....most all of the college frats. have these secret ideas inplace in their meetings.
> ive lost all the books of my granddads, one of the quotes from the books that sticks out in my mind is "God is the author of good and evil".........and that Christ is one path to heaven, just as much as mohommed.
> this stuff is evil. no matter how much good works they do. just thinkin back on the talks i had with my granddad makes me sad.



I know of a church - a Reformed church - where most of the men on the Session were Masons (this was many, many years ago). A new pastor came to the church who did not tolerate Masons (many blessings upon him; he's with the Lord now). He told the Masonic Session members that they had to make a choice - God or the Masons. Most of them chose Masonry, and left the church. True story.


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## Kaalvenist (Jan 27, 2007)

Covenanters have always been opposed to secret societies, including the Freemasons.


> *The Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America, Chapter 26, Section 19:*
> Christians should walk in the light. Their beliefs, purposes, manner of life, and their rules of action and conduct should be based on the Word of God and should not be concealed. Oathbound societies usually involve an improper requirement of secrecy, aims which are immoral, intimate fellowship with unbelievers or participation in unbiblical worship. Membership in such organizations is inconsistent with a Christian profession, however good their announced purposes may be.
> 1 John 1:7; 1 Thess. 5:5; Matt. 5:14; 2 John 1:7-11; John 3:20-21; Eph. 5:8-14; Matt. 15:9


This statement quotes almost verbatim from the old _Testimony,_ Chapter 22, Section 5, which was added to the _Testimony_ in 1861. It is my understanding that the church was long opposed to secret societies before this; this was simply the point when it was actually added to the _Testimony._

See also _The Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland:_ "The Church and Secret Societies," with a pointed condemnation of both Freemasonry and the Orange Order (much more of an issue in Northern Ireland, where they are located).


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## bowhunter1961 (Jan 27, 2007)

micwarfeild, 
the function of the mock death and rez. is symbolic to them becoming some kind of demi-god, so, at final judgment, if theyre in good standing with the lodge(works and fundraising) they'll have the power to raise their wife ffrom the grace......just like the mormons. i wish i had those books now.....its been a dozen yrs since ive even thought about this stuff.


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## Pergamum (Jan 27, 2007)

I am still, technically, a 3rd degree Master Mason.


My g-father was a mason and he wanted me to get into it. So I did and was the best recter of their rituals that they came across and someone offered to pay for my initiation into the Scottish Rite. 


But then I was saved. That tends to complicate a lot of things in life!  


So, I wrote a personal letter of resignation to my local lodge and to the state and national lodge ) posting these letters online at the state and national letter and writing many personally professing my new faith.

Years later I found out that a family friend had been paying me fees every year without my knowledge and that I was still on the rolls. I lost track of this guy and thus I am still on their rolls!



Any group of people that have rituals, especially for funerals and a way of praying and a name for God (TGAOTU - The Great Architect of the Universe) is usually defined as a religion.


I read a study that was alarming. In the South fully 16% of Southern Baptist deacons are part of the Freemasons.


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## Theoretical (Jan 27, 2007)

Pergamum said:


> I am still, technically, a 3rd degree Master Mason.
> 
> 
> My g-father was a mason and he wanted me to get into it. So I did and was the best recter of their rituals that they came across and someone offered to pay for my initiation into the Scottish Rite.
> ...


Wow, that does complicate things. That is very strange of someone continuing to pay your membership fees, even after you've VERY noticeably resigned. Go figure.


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## Pergamum (Jan 27, 2007)

Excerpts from my unlawfuls vows:


"May my body be severed in twain, the twain burned to ashes and those ashes scattered to the four winds of heaven should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn obligation as a ____Mason."

"May my body be buried in the rough sands of the sea where the tides ebb and flow twice in 24 hours....."


"May my throat be slit from ear to ear...should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn obligation as a Master Mason."



I also died and was raised to life again in a ritual.


Also, I vowed not to defraud another mason or deflower his daughter. I guess the rest of the poor schmucks outside the lodge were fair game because I didn't have to vow these things regarding them.



Again, I repented publicly and submitted my resignation and detailed refutations of why one could not be a consistent Christian and a freemason at the local, state and national level. I rechecked a year later on their web site and my state resignation was still posted (they were not tech saavy I guess, or chose to leave it up).


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## turmeric (Jan 28, 2007)

bowhunter1961 said:


> micwarfeild,
> the function of the mock death and rez. is symbolic to them becoming some kind of demi-god, so, at final judgment, if theyre in good standing with the lodge(works and fundraising) they'll have the power to raise their wife ffrom the grace......just like the mormons. i wish i had those books now.....its been a dozen yrs since ive even thought about this stuff.



This sounds Orphic to me. It also kinda reminds me of the Shiites with their Hussein. Hiram Abif is in the Bible, though there's no record of his murder. They should never have buried anyone in the Temple, it violates the kosher laws. I doubt if it happened.


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## Chris (Jan 28, 2007)

Pergamum said:


> I read a study that was alarming. In the South fully 16% of Southern Baptist deacons are part of the Freemasons.


 

And modern SBC churches have a number of similarities to the lodge. Our outlook on theology is similar to that of masonry. 


I'm not sure that's the fault of masonry _per se _; it may be more of a coincidence; our theology being poor as a result of our depravity and misunderstanding of or refusal to accept Scriptural teachings, leaving us with a theological framework that resembles that of masonry because it was formed in the same manner as that of masonry. 


Nominal 'christians' often:
-see men as inherently good
-see religion as a means of improving good things, whether men or society
-revolt at the notion of depravity
-see god as desiring good works from us instead of holiness, rejecting the principle of Pslams 51:16-17
-reject the notion of God's presence bringing an awareness of sin (Isaiah 6)


I could go on - point is, masonry's flaws in theology bear much resemblance to the flaws present amongst the nominally 'christian' who have recreated god in their own image.


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## Kevin (Jan 29, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> A well-known leading minister in that denomination who also publishes _The Christian Observer_ is a Free Mason.
> 
> Dr. Edwin P. Elliott, Jr.



I knew him back in the day when I worked for the old USTP. He always was (and I am sure still is) a real christian gentleman, I just couldn't understand the masonry thing. I can almost understand with someone who is ignorant but that is not the case here.


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