# Israel and the Church



## Doulos McKenzie (May 16, 2016)

Hey y'all. I have recently been studying Covenant theology vs dispensationalism. I my self lean more toward the Covenant theology but I am struggling with the idea that the Church is Israel and vis versa. It seems to me after reading Gal 3 that the gentiles now benefit with Israel but I don't see where it says they become Israel. Is there anyone who can help me?


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## Cymro (May 16, 2016)

Being you are in Galations, have a look at 6:16. He is writing to Gentiles, and sets the rule in v15,and shows that all who walk to that rule are the Israel of God, and know the peace of God.


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## Doulos McKenzie (May 16, 2016)

Cymro said:


> Being you are in Galations, have a look at 6:16. He is writing to Gentiles, and sets the rule in v15,and shows that all who walk to that rule are the Israel of God, and know the peace of God.



Thank you for your help. I have done some research on those verses and they certainly do have alot to say about the subject but is there any other places in the New Testament you suggest I look into?


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## reaganmarsh (May 16, 2016)

Hi Jonathan, 

Consider Paul's description of what constitutes Jewishness in Rom 2.28-29. There you'll find a spiritual sense of "Jewishness" which transcends ethnicity and is the parallel to Gal 6.16. Birth doesn't make a man a Jew, but rather the new birth, i.e., circumcision of the heart by God the Holy Spirit.


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## Contra_Mundum (May 16, 2016)

Jesus is the One True Israelite. _*He*_ is Israel, fulfilled (2Cor.1:20).

He's the Vine, we're the branches, Jn.15:5. We're grafted into him, as were OT saints, and apart from Him there is no life, nothing. It's all about Jesus, not Jesus-and-Israel. He's the stock, Rom.11, from which native branches are pruned to allow alien branches to be ingrafted.

The NT doesn't teach, "now the church is Israel," because the drama of the OT was never about (ultimately) genetics, never about an earthly people but a heavenly people that has an earthly expression.

The visible church of God was always "Israel the nation at prayer;" and now the visible Israel-of-God (Gal.6:16) is the church at prayer.


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## Peairtach (May 16, 2016)

From Romans 9-11 we learn that the NT Church which is in succession to the OT Church/OT Israel consists of a rump of Israel after the flesh (I Corinthians 10:18) and Gentiles. 

These Jews and Gentiles constitute the NT Church/Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) i.e. the Israel that belongs to God, as opposed to that part of Israel after the flesh that does not belong to God.

There are indications in this passage that God in His providence will one day bring in the greater body of the Jews into the Israel of God, as He will with a much greater part of the Gentiles than hitherto, hence the exultant Apostolic doxology (Romans 11:33-36)


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## flowers92 (Jun 6, 2016)

I agree, also in Romans.. Paul makes a distinction between Israel & the church. Saying that Israel may be grafted in the future.


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## jlblack-vmor (Jun 6, 2016)

When I look at Galatians 3, verse 7 sets the argument for me by the Apostle Paul: "Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham." This is remarkable. Paul is writing to a largely Gentile church (we must assume) and he is saying "the sons of Abraham" that will inherit the promises made to Israel are those who are "of faith" (regardless of biological descent). Paul does the same thing in Romans 9:6b-7 when he argues that "not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring." Only "the children of the promise" from Abraham's descendants are counted (regardless, again, of biological descent). So when I come to Romans 11:5, I take Paul to be talking about the remnant of Christ-believing Israel "chosen by grace" who are of Abraham, the man of faith. National Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking, because the national leadership rejected Christ and plotted His crucifixion. The elect of Israel obtained the promises, because they in faith obeyed the truth-claims of Christ Jesus - the Savior of "the Jew first and also...the Gentiles." So I believe Paul is speaking about an "Israel within Israel" in his letters, a chosen Jewish remnant out of national Israel that remains in that glorious Vine (or Tree of Life) that is Christ Jesus our Lord.


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## Edward (Jun 6, 2016)

Romans 11:13-24. The Jews that reject Christ are the dead branches; the Christians have been engrafted to the root of the church. Any Jews that are of the elect will be grafted back in.


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## jlblack-vmor (Jun 6, 2016)

Thank you, Edward, for adding that section of Romans 11 here. I want to add a little to that, just to offer up my understanding of it as I wrestled through the years with these points as a former dispensationalist. 

When teaching through this to our congregation here, I took the "cultivated olive tree" (11:24) to be a portrait of the Israel--Christ Jesus being the very root from which every living branch in the tree drinks its sap. I agree with you that the natural branches "dead in unbelief" are those unbelieving Jews out of every tribe. The dead, fruitless branches are broken off. I would only alter what follows in your statement to read "the Gentiles have been engrafted to the root which is Christ". I do not think the root is the church or Church. The root is Christ.

The apostle communicates great hope for any Jew who desires to inherit the promises made to Israel by turning from unbelief to the Messiah Jesus. Paul's method of teaching in the synagogues first on his early missionary journeys is evidence of his great hope for Israel. And by believing in the Messiah Jesus, Jewish converts will be grafted back into "their own olive tree." This helps me understand verse 26 when Paul says "in this way" all Israel will be saved. "In this way" must ultimately refer to belief in the Messiah, Christ Jesus as He reveals Himself to the Jew in the preaching of the gospel which is "the power of God."

Paul also adds that it is only a "partial hardening" and not a wholesale rejection of the nation. "Many thousands" of Jews have come to faith in Christ Jesus according to James (Acts 21:20), and that was still first century A.D. "All Israel", to me then, refers to those elect Jews who have repented of their unbelief and trusted in their Messiah Christ Jesus whenever and wherever they are located in time and space. The cultivated olive tree will be full and complete--free of deadness--when our Lord returns.


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## Edward (Jun 6, 2016)

jlblack-vmor said:


> I would only alter what follows in your statement to read "the Gentiles have been engrafted to the root which is Christ". I do not think the root is the church or Church. The root is Christ.



Thanks for that correction.


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## jlblack-vmor (Jun 6, 2016)

You're welcome, brother.


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## richardnz (Jun 7, 2016)

In Jeremiah 31: 31 it says:- “Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
So we can identify Israel by those with whom the Lord made the New Covenant, “In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me. I Cor 11:25.

In addition we know who “The Circumcision” refers to and yet it says in Phil 3:3:-

“For we are the circumcision, which worship God in the spirit, and rejoice in Christ Jesus, and have no confidence in the flesh.”


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## reaganmarsh (Jun 7, 2016)

richardnz said:


> So we can identify Israel by those with whom the Lord made the New Covenant



Careful, now -- you're reasoning like a Baptist.  Just teasing, brother. 

This has been an edifying thread and I have thoroughly enjoyed reading it.


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## johnny (Jun 7, 2016)

reaganmarsh said:


> richardnz said:
> 
> 
> > So we can identify Israel by those with whom the Lord made the New Covenant
> ...



I was thinking the exact same thing, 

These are the views that unite us together and point us directly to salvation through Christ.
How sad it is that the dispensational view of distingushing Israel has twisted many of these great scripture promises in directions where they were never intended to go.


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