# Regeneration by Faith or Faith by Regeneration?



## hojun1978 (Nov 18, 2010)

I have been always thinking that Faith by Regeneration.

But, how to explain the title of Book 3, Chap 3 in the Institutes ?


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## Poimen (Nov 18, 2010)

hojun1978 said:


> I have been always thinking that Faith by Regeneration.



You are correct if by regeneration you mean the new life in Christ we have by the Holy Spirit. However at the time of the Reformation the word 'regeneration' had a broader meaning to it which included the life of repentance, or the daily dying of the old man and the living of the new (cf. Heidelberg Catechism, Q&A 88). So Calvin is saying here (in 3.3 of the Institutes) that repentance, or godly living is from/a result of faith.


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## Sola Fide (Nov 19, 2010)

Art. 24 of the Belgic Confession also speaks of regeneration in terms of the new, transformed life that is subsequent to faith: "We believe that this true faith being wrought in man by the hearing of the Word of God, and the operation of the Holy Ghost, does regenerate and make him a new man, causing him to live a new life, and freeing him from the bondage of sin."


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## Don Kistler (Nov 19, 2010)

If faith precedes regeneration, then faith is just one more act that emanates from a wicked heart. Until the heart is changed by God, the only thing it can do is sin, either more or less. But it cannot NOT sin. So faith itself would be a sin if the heart is still unrenewed. And then you would have God saving people for sin. And you would have spiritually dead people doing something.

If regeneration precedes faith, then faith is an act that God accepts from a new, changed, clean heart. There must be life before there can be movement, both spiritually and physically.


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## seajayrice (Nov 19, 2010)




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## Pergamum (Nov 19, 2010)

Should we suppose a time gap between faith and regeneration?


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## KMK (Nov 19, 2010)

Poimen said:


> hojun1978 said:
> 
> 
> > I have been always thinking that Faith by Regeneration.
> ...


 
Rev Kok is exactly right. See Berkhoff's Systematic Theology chapter on Effectual Calling.


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## dudley (Nov 19, 2010)

I believe in Faith by regeneration: _Colossians 3:5-10 (New International Version)_ *5 Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[a] 7 You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8 But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10 and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. *


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## MLCOPE2 (Nov 20, 2010)

seajayrice said:


>


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## Sola Fide (Nov 20, 2010)

I think we all agree with the following order: regeneration by the Spirit -> faith -> the new life. But as Rev Kok says, some Reformational writings use "regeneration" to describe the new life.


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## Don Kistler (Nov 20, 2010)

With regard to the question about a time gap between regeneration and faith, there is none. We speak of things in a logical order, but not a chronological order.
At the very moment one is born again, or regenerated, by the Holy Spirit, he or she exercises faith in the finished work of Christ.

It is impossible that a person could be regenerated and die before they had time to believe. They are simultaneous.


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## Pergamum (Nov 20, 2010)

Dr. Kistler, yes I brought this point up because primitive baptist errors are rife within some of the sovereign grace baptist churches that I am acquainted with. They propose that some can be regenerate without possessing faith and that some can even be born again without knowing it. Old Hardshell errors are being brought out in the name of defending monergism and many cannot distinguish between a "logical order" and a "chronological order" and thus they defend a time gap between these events.


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## msortwell (Nov 21, 2010)

Pergamum said:


> Dr. Kistler, yes I brought this point up because primitive baptist errors are rife within some of the sovereign grace baptist churches that I am acquainted with. They propose that some can be regenerate without possessing faith and that some can even be born again without knowing it. Old Hardshell errors are being brought out in the name of defending monergism and many cannot distinguish between a "logical order" and a "chronological order" and thus they defend a time gap between these events.


 
I can recall pondering the possibility of a time gap between regeneration and saving faith - early in my exposure to the doctrines of grace. I eventually left those musings behind but I am not sure what Scriptural evidence I would offer, or logical reasoning I would forward, to convince those holding as theoretically possible a delay between regeneration and saving faith, to convince them otherwise. I would be grateful for any insights or recommendations.


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## Don Kistler (Nov 21, 2010)

Michael, some of the reasoning would at least include these:

1. It is impossible that a regenerate person (that is, an elect person) not be saved. If it were possible to be regenerate and die before exercising saving faith, then it would be possible for an elect person, one for whom Christ died, to be lost.
And therefore Christ's claim that "Of all those whom Thou hast given Me, I have not lost one" would be a false claim; for the elect are all those whom God has given to Christ.

2. If there is a time gap between regeneration and faith, someone who is "born again," i.e., regenerated could be born again and not be saved.

Personally, I think the first argument is sufficient, but others may not.


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