# Is it OK to be a stay at home dad?



## elnwood

Is it OK to be a stay at home dad? | CCEF


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## smhbbag




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## EKSB SDG

Without knowing a lot more about the whole situation, including goals and motivations, it's not a question that can be easily answered. My wife has been a stay-at-home mom for the last 22 years. Although she's been at home, she has and does work very hard. Besides all the day-to-day household stuff, she has homeschooled our children (oldest of which is a senior in college). On the other hand, I've been a stay at home dad for the past five years -- because I was able to take advantage of an early retirement pension from my employer (at age 50). There have been some upsides to my being at home, but there have also been some downsides. In addition to have lots more time with my family, I've been able to be much more involved in a number of activities and able to volunteer my time (e.g. church, pro-life, and political). 

Having said all that, I think the bottom line in answering this question is found in thoroughly searching Scripture. Is it Biblically normative? How can you best serve and honor Christ? How can you best serve and honor your family? What is your responsibility to provide for your family? What are your motives? I'm still wrestling with those questions and right now I'm leaning towards going back to work.


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## CalvinandHodges

No


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## he beholds

Since there was no blurb to know what the podcast would say and I don't want to invest in something without an idea of what they'll say, I admit I didn't listen. But as a stay at home mom, I think I can say that I really am working. A lot. And if we believe that God is commanding us to work and we believe that mothers are obeying that command by working in the house, then I think we are saying that the type of work that mothers do is real, godly work. Or, in other words, for work to be pleasing to the Lord, it doesn't have to come with a paycheck. (We'll easily say this about men regarding Saturdays. The stuff they do around the house is work. They are not sinning by not working at a job six days a week.) So if: 
a) it is a real job to take care of a home or a home and kids and 
b)work is not dependent upon the paycheck and
c) when a man is working at home he is not sinning

Then I think that were a man to be a stay at home dad he'd not be sinning in that. 

For example, if a family were filthy rich and had no need for income why would anyone say that the man must still work outside of the home and make money in order to not sin? I think it'd actually be more questionable for him to spend the bulk of his time away from the home when he could afford not to. And I don't truly think this only falls on the filthy rich, but I wanted to get rid of the providing for family argument. Like with a retirement fund that keeps the family cared for, I think it could be better for the man to ease the wife and children's burden if he were able, rather than work for work's sake.


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## elnwood

I don't think I can do justice to the podcast with a short blurb, but here is the beginning, just to let you know where they come down.



> The question goes like this: can men stay at home? More specifically, is it wrong biblically for men to be "stay at home dads"?
> 
> No. I think a lot of the pressure that we feel as Christians is much more cultural than biblical.


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## Notthemama1984

elnwood said:


> I don't think I can do justice to the podcast with a short blurb, but here is the beginning, just to let you know where they come down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question goes like this: can men stay at home? More specifically, is it wrong biblically for men to be "stay at home dads"?
> 
> No. I think a lot of the pressure that we feel as Christians is much more cultural than biblical.
Click to expand...


I didn't realize that Genesis 3:17-19 was cultural.


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## Alan D. Strange

If the question is, "are men and women parentally interchangeable?" The answer is "no."

Men are not biologically (anatomically evident) and dispositionally suited to be the primary care givers for infants and small children, except for shorter periods (mom needs a break) or _in extremis_ (mom has left, by death or desertion). A man would almost certainly seek female assistance in the later sad case. Both special and general revelation would witness to this.

I don't know if this anwers the question, as many unaddressed scenarios might be in view. But I'll stop here for now.

Peace,
Alan


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## au5t1n

elnwood said:


> [quoting the podcast]No. I think a lot of the pressure that we feel as Christians is much more cultural than biblical.



On that note, let me suggest some food for thought. The Bible does not give a list of all the possible cultural applications of its principles. It expects us (via the fifth commandment) to learn from the wisdom of our ancestors where their wisdom is not sinful. It is popular in America (and by now the rest of the West), within the church to think that we should "reinvent the wheel" and apply brand new cultural expressions of biblical principles with each new generation. This is folly.

When it comes to an established cultural application of biblical truth, I think we need to ask whether we have solid biblical reasons to throw out the wisdom of previous generations of Christians before we do so just because "There isn't a list in the Bible that demands we apply the concept of X in only this one way." It's true that our application of the details of how the creation order plays out in society will look somewhat different across cultures within biblical limits, but let's not be so quick to throw out the fifth commandment and ignore historical cultural application where it is wise. There should be a high standard of proof that it is not wise.


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## JBaldwin

Chaplainintraining said:


> elnwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I can do justice to the podcast with a short blurb, but here is the beginning, just to let you know where they come down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question goes like this: can men stay at home? More specifically, is it wrong biblically for men to be "stay at home dads"?
> 
> No. I think a lot of the pressure that we feel as Christians is much more cultural than biblical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't realize that Genesis 3:17-19 was cultural.
Click to expand...


If you are taking your argument based on this passage, every man should come home and be a farmer. The point is that the husband is supposed to be the head of the house and the provider. Sometimes that is just not possible. Are we going to condemn a woman because her husband may be so ill he can't provide and the woman has to be the one to work? I doubt it. 

Should men behave like women and women behave like man, no!


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## Pergamum

Is the OP focused on what is permissible under less-than-ideal circumstances, or is it focused on what is ideal under normal circumstances?


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## Notthemama1984

JBaldwin said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> elnwood said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't think I can do justice to the podcast with a short blurb, but here is the beginning, just to let you know where they come down.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question goes like this: can men stay at home? More specifically, is it wrong biblically for men to be "stay at home dads"?
> 
> No. I think a lot of the pressure that we feel as Christians is much more cultural than biblical.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I didn't realize that Genesis 3:17-19 was cultural.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are taking your argument based on this passage, every man should come home and be a farmer. The point is that the husband is supposed to be the head of the house and the provider. Sometimes that is just not possible. Are we going to condemn a woman because her husband may be so ill he can't provide and the woman has to be the one to work? I doubt it.
> 
> Should men behave like women and women behave like man, no!
Click to expand...


I would imagine that situations were in place for disability in the OT, but the norm was that the man had to work and provide. It was the result of the curse. 

It is also obvious that the curse of the woman is that she will WANT to be the leader and rule, but she is to submit and have the husband rule and provide. 

So in my opinion, the modern stay-at-home dad is typically the woman succumbing to the curse and the man wussing out.


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## NB3K

Please take it from someone who is a stay at home father. It is so depressing not being able to be the bread winner of the house.


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## TimV

Good post, Jason, and that hit's it on the head. Yes, it's allowable and at times necessary. How could there be any question? Does anyone here assume all men are in good health, perfect finances, education etc..../???? How cruel people can be.

But no, it's not optimum.


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## Constantlyreforming

In regard to men having to work as a result of the fall, let's take this the other way. Is it permissible to limit pain in child bearing, as that is the woman's result of the fall? Or should we not do with medicine what God has blessed us with? 

It boils down to this: Can God bless us with things as believers, essentially tempering the effects of the fall?

I'd say yes, absolutely. So can a man stay at home? He may, as God blesses him to do that. He may bless his woman with an extraordinary mind, or a work-ethic that seeks to provide for their family, at minimal effort. For instance, I know a family who has the woman work as a pharmacist for 10-15 hours a week. THis is all it takes to provide all that the family needs and more. And he is a very godly man, who is willing to work at a moment's notice if it becomes necessary.

I for one would love to stay at home with my wife and spend all the time I could with her, working 40 hours a week to serve her and cherish her rather than a boss.


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## au5t1n

Several posts so far have read "stay-at-home dad" to mean a dad that stays home with his wife. That is not how the term is normally used in our culture. It means a man who plays the same role as a stay-at-home mom while she works a normal day job.

I think those who have pointed out that there are extraordinary cases (e.g. medical reasons), but that we should not argue from the extraordinary to the ordinary, have it right.


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## Constantlyreforming

Can I find my own post helpful?



---------- Post added at 11:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 AM ----------




austinww said:


> Several posts so far have read "stay-at-home dad" to mean a dad that stays home with his wife. That is not how the term is normally used in our culture. It means a man who plays the same role as a stay-at-home mom while she works a normal day job.
> 
> I think those who have pointed out that there are extraordinary cases (e.g. medical reasons), but that we should not argue from the extraordinary to the ordinary, have it right.




I think that there may be times where the mother may be ill-equipped to take care of the children in a right manner, and the father more suited to do the child rearing. No doubt, women and men may fail or do poorly at their respective roles due to sin. I see no reason why a man cannot step in and "lead" the family by commanding the wife to work outside the home while he takes the home matters into his hands. It needs to come from the man, however, and not be a submission of the man to the woman's desire to work outside the home.


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## Andres

I would agree with Austin. It's all going to come down to why is a man staying at home and not working? Another important question would be does this mean that the wife is out working to provide or are they simply financially stable enough that neither have to work outside the home?


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## Constantlyreforming

I;d have my wife only work for another woman.


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## Tripel

Constantlyreforming said:


> In regard to men having to work as a result of the fall,



Who said work is a result of the fall???


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## Andres

Constantlyreforming said:


> I;d have my wife only work for another woman.



That seems like you'd just be encouraging the cycle of women working outside the home.


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## Constantlyreforming

Tripel said:


> Constantlyreforming said:
> 
> 
> 
> In regard to men having to work as a result of the fall,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Who said work is a result of the fall???
Click to expand...




Here:





Chaplainintraining said:


> I would imagine that situations were in place for disability in the OT, but the norm was that the man had to work and provide. It was the result of the curse.
> 
> It is also obvious that the curse of the woman is that she will WANT to be the leader and rule, but she is to submit and have the husband rule and provide.
> 
> So in my opinion, the modern stay-at-home dad is typically the woman succumbing to the curse and the man wussing out.




---------- Post added at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:19 AM ----------




Andres said:


> Constantlyreforming said:
> 
> 
> 
> I;d have my wife only work for another woman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That seems like you'd just be encouraging the cycle of women working outside the home.
Click to expand...


nah, just other woman who were commanded by their husbands to work outside the home. I'd have to do background checks...


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## Tripel

Ahh, thanks Ethan.




Chaplainintraining said:


> but the norm was that the man had to work and provide. It was the result of the curse.



No, man was working prior to the curse. And I imagine man will be working into eternity in the new earth.
Work is good.


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## bug

Interesting, I was made redundant (with a large payoff) from an IT job just after our first child was born. I counted it a privilege to be able to spend so much time with my daughter and still be the bread winner. I split my time between looking after the Kid(s) and completing my ministry training which allowed my wife to continue working part time as a medical doctor. I say Kid(s) because my second child was born during this period as well. As my wife doesn't take well to pregnancy I doubt we would have been able to have another child and still care properly for our first had I not been on hand to help. Even now, as a Pastor I work from my study at home as much as possible to be around for the kids, if anything the problem we face in the west is dads not spending enough time with their children! 

My point in telling this little tale is to point out that as with most things like this it is not a simple yes/no answer, there are many factors to consider, for example a man made redundant and being unable to work, whilst his wife can get a secretarial job. I obviously have no problem with my own situation, yet pastorally I will tell a man to get back to work if I think he is staying home through laziness etc. 

The issue is not about being a stay at home dad, the issue is about does the man live up to his God given duty to be the head of his house, and if he doesn't how does the church help/ train him to fulfil that role. And because of the fallen nature of the world in which we life, we have to remember that some times the situation is 'make do' and often every Christian involved in a situation that is not ideal, feels that and wants to do something about it.


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## Constantlyreforming

Man was to tend and take care of the garden in Eden. He did not labor or toil as much as he was able to work without exerting himself, I believe. This changed after the fall. in addition, after the fall, it said that woman would INCREASE the pain in child bearing. The pain would be added to pain already there. SO even without sin, child bearing would have been painful.


I reiterate:
In regard to men having to work (more) as a result of the fall, let's take this the other way. Is it permissible to limit pain in child bearing, as that is the woman's result of the fall? Or should we not do with medicine what God has blessed us with?

It boils down to this: Can God bless us with things as believers, essentially tempering the effects of the fall? Can we as Christians reap the benefits of God's care for us? As He has given us minds to create medicines and procedures to temper the painful effects of sin, may we also utilize the gifts He has given us to temper the effects of labor (the workforce) as well?


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## J. Dean

Constantlyreforming said:


> I;d have my wife only work for another woman.


What's ironic about that is that most women, when given the choice, would rather work under a man than under another woman.

BTW, I would LOVE to work from home, a la being an author. I know it's not quite the same as the OP, but two of my bandmates work from home and they seem to find it quite good.


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## smhbbag

When I hear 'stay-at-home dad,' I hear a lifestyle choice, rather than a concession to necessity that everyone involved hopes is temporary.

In that sense, no, it's not o.k. to be a stay-at-home dad.


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## bug

smhbbag said:


> When I hear 'stay-at-home dad,' I hear a lifestyle choice, rather than a concession to necessity that everyone involved hopes is temporary.
> 
> In that sense, no, it's not o.k. to be a stay-at-home dad.



Well sometimes it is, and then it is the churches job to correct such a man, sometimes it is because the wife is a very strong personality and it seems the roles have been reveresed in the home, that too needs to correction, yet pastorally I have come across situations where necessity has dictated who stays and home and who works. 

One interesting example I came across was a couple who were burdened to translate the scriptures into their native tongue, the wife was a skilled linguist but the man not, he choose to look after the children, so that she could do the translation work. Both them considered that they had sacrificed there right to their natural roles for the Lord, right or wrong, I wonder?


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## JBaldwin

Jonathan, I think what is primarily important in situations such as you mention is the attitude of the wife (and the husband) toward each other. In a family, what is important is the biblical model of submission and love to one another and to Christ. If the roles must be reversed for a period of time for whatever reason, I don't think that we make even question what someone else is doing unless we see an obvious problem in their treatment of one another.


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## Andres

bug said:


> Well sometimes it is, and then it is the churches job to correct such a man, sometimes it is because the wife is a very strong personality and it seems the roles have been reveresed in the home, that too needs to correction, yet pastorally I have come across situations where necessity has dictated who stays and home and who works.



Why is it the church's job to correct this situation? Isn't this a family decision? The church has their sphere of authority and I don't know that it extends into household, familial decisions. The husband has authority over this area. Of course, the question would then become is it a sin for a man to stay home. While I certainly have my preferences, I don't know if one can make the case from scripture that it's an outright sin for a man to stay home while the wife works. I am willing to be corrected though.


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## SolaScriptura

smhbbag said:


> When I hear 'stay-at-home dad,' I hear a lifestyle choice, rather than a concession to necessity that everyone involved hopes is temporary.



My thoughts exactly.

It is one thing for a man to be providentially hindered from having the ability to be the financial/material provider for the family and quite another for the man and/or his wife to decide that he should just stay home and be "Mr. Mom."


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## bug

> Jonathan, I think what is primarily important in situations such as you mention is the attitude of the wife (and the husband) toward each other. In a family, what is important is the biblical model of submission and love to one another and to Christ. If the roles must be reversed for a period of time for whatever reason, I don't think that we make even question what someone else is doing unless we see an obvious problem in their treatment of one another.



Precisely my point, thank you 

---------- Post added at 03:23 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:05 PM ----------




Andres said:


> bug said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well sometimes it is, and then it is the churches job to correct such a man, sometimes it is because the wife is a very strong personality and it seems the roles have been reveresed in the home, that too needs to correction, yet pastorally I have come across situations where necessity has dictated who stays and home and who works.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is it the church's job to correct this situation? Isn't this a family decision? The church has their sphere of authority and I don't know that it extends into household, familial decisions.
Click to expand...


I believe Paul would disagree with you, considering the amount he writes in his epistles regarding the ordering of the family. Surely the church has a responsibility to stir each other up to good works (Heb 10:24), to edify (Heb 10:25)each other and admonish (Rom 15:14) each other, or do you believe the bible excludes the family from this. I believe our care for each other should be 'holistic' - my job is not to just fill people heads with doctrine, but to guide them towards christlikeness in preperation for glory. I need to teach them how to be a family, what to be like at work etc 



> The husband has authority over this area. Of course, the question would then become is it a sin for a man to stay home. While I certainly have my preferences, I don't know if one can make the case from scripture that it's an outright sin for a man to stay home while the wife works. I am willing to be corrected though.



I think you must be assuming I mean 'discipline' but I am not simply thinking of that avenue, but rather of teaching and helping. As for being a stay at home dad, as I have already stated it is something that must be considered on a case by case basis. I am simply asking questions of all those who making generic, blanket statements which to my mind fail in relation the very real and complicated situations we face.

---------- Post added at 03:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:23 PM ----------




SolaScriptura said:


> smhbbag said:
> 
> 
> 
> When I hear 'stay-at-home dad,' I hear a lifestyle choice, rather than a concession to necessity that everyone involved hopes is temporary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My thoughts exactly.
> 
> It is one thing for a man to be providentially hindered from having the ability to be the financial/material provider for the family and quite another for the man and/or his wife to decide that he should just stay home and be "Mr. Mom."
Click to expand...


I have learnt that we never assume anything based upon people's first words. In most pastoral situations the problem is not which is firsat specified, but usually something deeper. Now it may well be a lifestyle choice, or it might be that some men will talk like this because of their embarrassment/ unwillingness to admit their failure to be the breadwinner. There is a always a need to dig deeper to my mind


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## Pergamum

bug said:


> Interesting, I was made redundant (with a large payoff) from an IT job just after our first child was born. I counted it a privilege to be able to spend so much time with my daughter and still be the bread winner. I split my time between looking after the Kid(s) and completing my ministry training which allowed my wife to continue working part time as a medical doctor. I say Kid(s) because my second child was born during this period as well. As my wife doesn't take well to pregnancy I doubt we would have been able to have another child and still care properly for our first had I not been on hand to help. Even now, as a Pastor I work from my study at home as much as possible to be around for the kids, if anything the problem we face in the west is dads not spending enough time with their children!
> 
> My point in telling this little tale is to point out that as with most things like this it is not a simple yes/no answer, there are many factors to consider, for example a man made redundant and being unable to work, whilst his wife can get a secretarial job. I obviously have no problem with my own situation, yet pastorally I will tell a man to get back to work if I think he is staying home through laziness etc.
> 
> The issue is not about being a stay at home dad, the issue is about does the man live up to his God given duty to be the head of his house, and if he doesn't how does the church help/ train him to fulfil that role. And because of the fallen nature of the world in which we life, we have to remember that some times the situation is 'make do' and often every Christian involved in a situation that is not ideal, feels that and wants to do something about it.








> if anything the problem we face in the west is dads not spending enough time with their children!



I would like to challenge that assertion and, if needed, start another OP directed at this common but mistaken view.


The West at this time enjoys greater leisure time than any culture at any time in the world. Parents today, including dads, spend more leisure time with their children than at any previous time in history. Unless of course you count living in a one-room medieval mud hut and farming 40 acres for barely filling your stomach as "quality time with your children."


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## TimV

> The West at this time enjoys greater leisure time than any culture at any time in the world. Parents today, including dads, spend more leisure time with their children than at any previous time in history. Unless of course you count living in a one-room medieval mud hut and farming 40 acres for barely filling your stomach as "quality time with your children."



Yes, for sure.


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## JBaldwin

Think of the thousands of families throughout history who farmed and worked at home. On the very typical midwestern farm of the early 1900s, the kind where my mother and her father were raised, the dad was home all day, so was the mother, and they ALL worked, mom, dad, and children. Most of the time the father spent with the children was working. However, I do want to point out that a lot of quality time can be spent while milking cows, cleaning out animal pens, shucking corn, making bread, hoeing fields, etc. It isn't play time, but it's good time for serious conversations. 

For example, my husband and I clean out the chicken coops together, because it turns out it's some of the best time we can talk about serious issues without being distracted by phones, children and neighbors dropping in. Both of us actually look forward to it for that reason.


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