# Salvation by...Grace through Faith Vs Grace Unto Faith



## BroBret (Jul 20, 2004)

Last month I got into an online discussion with a Free Will Baptist Pastor (my former denomination) about Arminianism and Calvinism. He made an assertion that I had never run into before (even though I have talked to many Arminians, but perhaps not as many as some/most of you). He said that Calvinists do not believe in salvation by grace through faith, but rather in salvation by grace UNTO faith therefore being unbiblical. We went back and forth several times, but he rejected by explanations. If you have in the past, or ever did in the future, run into this, hat would you tell them. I would like to see if I was on target or not, or forgot something. Thanks gang.

Hey Scott! Nice Constitution Party banner I saw at the bottom of a couple of your posts    :thumbup: ;-)


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 20, 2004)

Bret,
Semantics, not theology. Orthodox historic Christianity has defined justification. What this gentleman is doing is redefining justification. Much like what the Auburn 4 has done. His definition is nothing less than a modern day heresy.

Vote your conscience Brett, not everyone elses; right? Who cares who wins the election, I need to sleep at night. If we got every Christian on the bandwagon, the C. Party would be victorious..........


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## Scot (Jul 20, 2004)

Hey Scott, are you familiar with the American Heritage Party?

http://www.americanheritageparty.org/


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## BroBret (Jul 21, 2004)

"Vote your conscience Brett, not everyone elses; right? Who cares who wins the election, I need to sleep at night. If we got every Christian on the bandwagon, the C. Party would be victorious.........."

Amen Scott. That's the point I have come to. We shouldn't base our decisions on expected results. We don't so that when it comes to sin. I agree that we need to vote for the person that most lines up with biblical principles and leave the results to God (kinda like sharing the gospel  ), and I think that Michael Peroutka and Chuck Baldwin are the best men for te job running for President and Vice President :thumbup: 

Scot:

I checked out that website. I didn't see any Presidential Candidates on there. Did I miss something? Are they are similar to the Constitution Party regarding biblical/Christian principles, I think they need to get together with the Constitution Party and so we can all get together behind one candidate.

May our sovereign all-powerful Lord be pleased to intervene in our elections   

Brother Bret


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## Scot (Jul 21, 2004)

[quote:16b8830175]Scot: 

I checked out that website. I didn't see any Presidential Candidates on there. Did I miss something? Are they are similar to the Constitution Party regarding biblical/Christian principles, I think they need to get together with the Constitution Party and so we can all get together behind one candidate. 

May our sovereign all-powerful Lord be pleased to intervene in our elections 
[/quote:16b8830175]

Brett,

I don't know that much about them either. I think they used to be with the Constitution Party but broke away from them. This party is strictly protestant (I think) where the Constitution Party has a mix of Protestants and Catholics. Like I said, I don't know that much about them. I thought Scott may know more.

Check out this link for a list and description of a ton of different parties. Brace yourself. There are some real wackos!!

http://www.politics1.com/parties.htm


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## Dan.... (Jul 21, 2004)

BroBret,

Sometimes when reading Arminian literature, I wonder if they understand the Calvinist understanding of Salvation as being more than regeneration.

Norman Geisler, in his book, [i:06566dbc0a]Chosen But Free[/i:06566dbc0a] is a prime example of this:

Appendix 10 is titled, "Is regeneration prior to faith?" He answers with a section entitled, "Verses that demonstrate that faith is prior to salvation".... as if Regeneration were all that there was to salvation.

It seems that the Free Will Baptist Pastor has the same faulty logic. When he says, "[i:06566dbc0a]that Calvinists do not believe in salvation by grace through faith, but rather in salvation by grace UNTO faith[/i:06566dbc0a] " he implies that regeneration is complete salvation. 

I'd probably respond that salvation is a process which includes election, regeneration, faith, justification, santification and glorification. Hence we are (in logical order) regenerated, given faith then justified, all of which are of salvation.


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