# Is your church a friendly church



## Pergamum (Sep 18, 2008)

Great blog:


Hospitality is intensely theological, is it not?



Is Your Church a Friendly Church? « Reformed Baptist Fellowship


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## turmeric (Sep 18, 2008)

I hope ours is!


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## jwithnell (Sep 18, 2008)

Amen! We represent a risen king to all who enter the doors.

A few years ago, I was working on a wildfire in south Georgia. Years before, I remember being in that town with a friend and going to a (at least then) conservative Methodist church. With no reformed options, I decided to visit there on Sunday morning. 

Well, I was wearing my required leather boots and nomex cargo-style fire pants. As I came in, I heard someone behind me say something to the effect that "she can't cause too much trouble, she's wearing a name tag." To my horror, I realized my entrance would be at the front of the sanctuary: conversations stopped, people turned around to stare. When the dance group came out, I gave up on the service and just sat there reading my Bible. I was so homesick for my church that morning!


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## Southern Presbyterian (Sep 18, 2008)

Yes, we should strive to make people feel welcome in the House of the Lord!


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## Mushroom (Sep 18, 2008)

Mine is positively offensive, if you face it from the front and see the big Jimmy the Shepherd stained glass window. But the folks inside are pretty nice, too.


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## the particular baptist (Sep 18, 2008)

*ESV John 13:34-35*

_A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another._

I am happy to say, by God's grace, that my church is friendly and hospitable


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## nicnap (Sep 18, 2008)

Joshua said:


> My church doesn't speak to me, shake my hand, or even give me a nod. It's a very cold church, but that's most due to the fact that it's made out of brick.
> 
> However, the folks inside of it make up for the church's rudeness. They're great, friendly, giving, etc.


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## JBaldwin (Sep 18, 2008)

PactumServa72 said:


> *ESV John 13:34-35*
> 
> _A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another: just as I have loved you, you also are to love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another._
> 
> I am happy to say, by God's grace, that my church is friendly and hospitable




Our congregation is also very warm and friendly, and it does have to do with loving one another. 

It has been my observation with unfriendly congregations that they also tend to be very self-absorbed and clickish, not really wanting others to be a part of their "club" unless they want them there. 

It can easily happen in churches when "we", the congregation, decide that we have a corner on the truth so we are slightly better than everyone else. The new person, then, becomes a threat to the status quo, and so people become unwelcoming and unfriendly.


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## py3ak (Sep 18, 2008)

The church of all others that I have most enjoyed visiting was Iglesia Presbiteriana Berith, where no one greeted me, shook my hand, or anything, until the pastor and an elder spoke with me as I was leaving; but I could have avoided them if I had wanted to.


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## Pergamum (Sep 18, 2008)

I visited a church once that met me at the door and told us we couldn't have our kids in service because the pastor doesn't like to hear kids. I didn't like hearing him

I also went to a church that proceeded to question me in minute, minute areas of doctrine - almost like they were looking for a reason to disagree.



But I went to a church and broke down on the road before getting there, and one of the church members lent me a car to drive across 2 states back home until mine was fixed! When I passed through again two weeks later we swapped the car out. WOW!


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## Ivan (Sep 18, 2008)

My members are very friendly. However, a church can be very friendly and not be a biblical church. If I had the choose between a friendly church that was not biblical and a biblical church that was not friendly, I would choose the biblical church.

But than again I'm funny that way.

I will add that there is nothing wrong with being friendly. I think that being friendly can be considered part of being a biblical church. However, if a friendly church is teaching false doctrine I wouldn't consider them a friendly church. Not for a minute.


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## the particular baptist (Sep 18, 2008)

I believe a church can be friendly and not be biblical but i also believe that it is an oxymoron to say that a church can be biblical _and_ unfriendly.


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## JBaldwin (Sep 18, 2008)

PactumServa72 said:


> I believe a church can be friendly and not be biblical but i also believe that it is an oxymoron to say that a church can be biblical _and_ unfriendly.



I would agree with that. If a congregation (as a whole) is living as Christ would live, they have love for one another, and that love naturally spills over into love for others. 

I would add here that the false friendliness that I've experienced in a few churches I've visited over the years is almost worse than being ignored. I would also add that I don't think I've ever encountered sicky friendliness in a reformed church. The reformed tend to be either genuinely friendly or to use a worn out phrase, "the frozen chosen".


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## JonathanHunt (Sep 18, 2008)

When someone walks in late, I don't watch as the entire congregation in front of me cranes their heads round to stare, honest...


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## Ivan (Sep 18, 2008)

JBaldwin said:


> PactumServa72 said:
> 
> 
> > I would add here that the false friendliness that I've experienced in a few churches I've visited over the years is almost worse than being ignored.
> ...


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 18, 2008)

Joshua said:


> My church doesn't speak to me, shake my hand, or even give me a nod. It's a very cold church, but that's most due to the fact that it's made out of brick.
> 
> However, the folks inside of it make up for the church's rudeness. They're great, friendly, giving, etc.



 Leave it you.

The church I go to is very inviting, very. Did I say very? It is their work to make all welcome to get people to open up.


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## Galatians220 (Sep 18, 2008)

JBaldwin said:


> PactumServa72 said:
> 
> 
> > I would also add that I don't think I've ever encountered sicky friendliness in a reformed church. The reformed tend to be either genuinely friendly or to use a worn out phrase, "the frozen chosen".
> ...


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## Pergamum (Sep 18, 2008)

Margaret has some mad smiley skills!


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## ColdSilverMoon (Sep 18, 2008)

Yes, my church is friendly - as much as New Yorkers can be friendly...


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Sep 18, 2008)

To my mind there is something really horrible about visiting a church and no one speaks to you. It feels even worse if you are on your own. I have been to services where people will speak during the passing of the peace and then ignore you after the benediction. What's that all about? 
Where, oh where did we get this idea that visitors to a church don't want to be spoken to? As a post modern generation are we not supposed to be about relationships, story and authenticity? 
This is really a pet peeve of mine, I could say (rant) so much more, but I will spare ya'll my traumas.
Thankfully, my own church is welcoming and friendly.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 18, 2008)

I'm sitting here chuckling to myself.

I sincerely do not believe that the question "is your church a friendly church" should be asked of committed members of that church. Instead, that question should be asked of the visitors who attend.

I virtually never hear a person say, "My church is unfriendly... but I attend there anyway." Yet I wonder what outsiders think.

An example:

In the past we attended a very confessional church. Before or after each service I'd be greeted by the elders... but no one else. I'd stand smiling waiting for someone to talk to me... but to no avail. From time to time I'd try to start up a conversation, all of which involved me trying to "insert myself" into openings in existing conversations. These too failed. My wife's success with the ladies was only slightly better. After a while we asked ourselves, "Why are we bothering? It isn't like this is the only church in town." So we left. 

A few months ago my wife happened into one of the ladies who, upon seeing her, asked my wife, "Did you go to our church in the past?" My wife said yes, and the lady asked why we didn't go, and my wife told her, and the lady said, "Oh! But we really are friendly!" 

I had to shake my head when I heard that. 

Anyway, before you pat yourselves on the back for having a friendly church I'd ask you to do an objective test: How many visitors do you get? and How often do they return for a second visit?

Very rarely will the theology of a church drive away a guest after a first visit... but the "climate" will. 

Also, it matters how friendly the elders are... but face it folks, most people think the pastor is doing his job to be friendly to guests. The real test is: how warm and outgoing are the congregants? That is how you gain a quick pulse check of the warmth and friendliness of a congregation.


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## Webservant (Sep 18, 2008)

Since I am in charge of our website, I am always looking for ways to drive traffic to our site. I am also always looking for links to our site. I was pleased to find a thread on a forum from someone who was "church-shopping". She and her family visted 7 churches in Baltimore, and she graded each one on a number of factors, friendliness being one of them. 

I determined that she was looking for Sunday morning entertainment rather than worship, but it was interesting to see how we are perceived by an outsider. She said we were friendly, by the way. 

My family and I visited a tiny little OPC church one time in Baltimore (I will not say which one). We were met by a kindly old gentlemen who was late unlocking the door, and who told us "your kids probably wouldn't like it here anyway."


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## jonmo (Sep 19, 2008)

I can relate to this post very personally as my family and I are in the midst of "shopping" in that we just arrived in London, UK recently from New York and need to find a new church family. It's just early days (we've been here a couple of months) but I have been to a lot of very different churches recently as an outsider.

It has been quite an interesting experience (and to be honest, depressing at times). For example, we attended a reformed church here in London for a three weeks in a row and liked the preaching/theology but no-one bar the minister bothered to speak to us at all in those three weeks, even though we hung around for the coffee time (and this was a church of 30-40 people so we weren't exactly getting lost in the crowd). We reluctantly decided that we couldn't make this our church home. 

We also attended a larger, more "seeker friendly" church that (fairly early into the service) we established wouldn't be a good fit theologically. The minister, who was a very strong orator, spent his entire sermon time exhorting the congregation to get involved in helping with their upcoming Alpha-type course and the importance of building the church with new people. However, when the service was over, we were completely ignored by absolutely everyone, even though it was patently obvious we were new (we put up our hands when he asked if there were any new comers). I'm sure that church thinks it is really friendly and, judging by the many conversations going on after the service, there are probably many people who find it very accommodating.

I remember Tim Keller saying once that churches can be like swimming in the sea - there are warm patches and cold ones. For someone who has built friendships/community, a particular church may seem like a warm place but for someone else, who comes along and isn't made felt welcome, it can seem like a very cold sea indeed.

All that said, we have also had some very positive/genuine welcomes at some other churches. I think friendliness/openness to outsiders is only one part of the whole picture but can make a real difference, rightly or wrongly, to how people perceive your church.


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## Reformed Baptist (Sep 19, 2008)

When we began attending a Reformed church, one family took an interest and care in who we are. They greeted us before and after the service, and invited to their home for lunch one Sunday afternoon. We spent the afternoon with them. They were a big part of why we joined. Sadly, they have moved to a different congregation. 

This is an important subject. Glad to see it being discussed.


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## Pergamum (Sep 19, 2008)

Is there a general trend as to why reformed churches might suffer this problem disproportionately? Do they suffer this afflication more than others? Is there truth to the mock, "The Frozen Chosen."

Could below be the reason:

I.e. small groups with high doctrinal fences in reformed circles encourages an "us" versus "them" mentality so that when a guest enters people think, "Oh, it might be one of them..one of THOSE people..." (i.e. a non-calvinistic Christian who goes to an evangelical protestant church). I.e. they are taught that tolerance and an openness are not good things but bad things or they are taught a "proper soberness in worship" such that is restrains natural gregarity and friendliness?


I have been a victim of the "Calvinist Cross-Exam" several times as I have visited diffeent churches. First they eyeball you, then one might approach. If conversation actually starts (often it doesn't) usually the questions are what church do you go to, what do they believe, "Oh", etc. Not family questions usually but questions about your church background.


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## JBaldwin (Sep 19, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Is there a general trend as to why reformed churches might suffer this problem disproportionately? Do they suffer this afflication more than others? Is there truth to the mock, "The Frozen Chosen."
> 
> Could below be the reason:
> 
> I.e. small groups with high doctrinal fences in reformed circles encourages an "us" versus "them" mentality so that when a guest enters people think, "Oh, it might be one of them..one of THOSE people..." (i.e. a non-calvinistic Christian who goes to an evangelical protestant church). I.e. they are taught that tolerance and an openness are not good things but bad things or they are taught a "proper soberness in worship" such that is restrains natural gregarity and friendliness?



I believe you are right about this. I also think that there is a lot of fear present. Perfect love casts out fear, and it is evident to me (since I've been in that position, and my sinful heart wanders back there from time to time) that fear of being led astray, fear of being "found out" (maybe they will see I am not as perfect as I think I am), or fear of having to actually reach out and be Christ to someone can keep us from loving the person that walks in the door of the church. 

It is painful for us reformed folks to admit we might be as bad as the fundamentalists when it comes to protecting our own turf. But the fact is, we often, out of fear, stand there with a wall around us and dare anyone to try to get in. It is much easier to stand comfortable in our own little world than it is to reach out to the soul that walks in, but Christ would have reached out, and that is what we should be doing. 

And the truth is we sometime find wonderful fellowship with others (as has already been mentioned here) by the "strangers" who wander into our churches on Sunday morning. 

We had such an experience a few weeks ago that I will never forget. A man walked in a few minutes before the worship service began. He struck up a conversation with several different individuals and then stayed afterwards to talk some more. He had such a good time, he came back for Bible study on Sunday evening. Turns out, he was quite a Bible scholar and loved the Lord and added so much to our time. He had dropped in from out of time to take care of some family business and probably won't be back, but what would we have missed if everyone had ignored him when he walked in?


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## Galatians220 (Sep 19, 2008)

Maybe it's just that Reformed folks are hard of hearing. They heard, "See how they love one another" as "See how they judge one another."

I am one who is:



 

Margaret



http://www.sweetim.com/s.asp?im=gen&ref=12


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## jonmo (Sep 20, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Is there a general trend as to why reformed churches might suffer this problem disproportionately? Do they suffer this afflication more than others? Is there truth to the mock, "The Frozen Chosen."



From my experience over the years, there is sadly an element of that. I grew up in a very narrow "reformed" church and there was definitely a tendency (whether it was intentional or not) to have an air of theological superiority over other Christian and even reformed believers who didn't share the exact theological formula that this church held to (eg, on the subject of women wearing hats). I thought it might have been something unique to that church but I've seen it elsewhere over the years.

That said, I'm sure reformed churches don't have a monopoly on the problem. Based on some of my family who attend Brethren or fundamentalist, independent-type churches, it would appear it is quite prevalent in other strands of Protestantism as well.

I think Calvinist/reformed theology is hard to grasp for many - particularly if you have had a lifetime in a non-reformed church - and sometimes we all need to show a little more grace, tolerance and patience.

Like Pergamum, I have had plenty of "Calvinist Cross Exams" over the years and I'm sure I've failed more than half of them!


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## Galatians220 (Sep 20, 2008)

jonmo said:


> From my experience over the years, there is sadly an element of that. I grew up in a very narrow "reformed" church and there was definitely a tendency (whether it was intentional or not) to have an air of theological superiority over other Christian and even reformed believers who didn't share the exact theological formula that this church held to (eg, on the subject of women wearing hats). I thought it might have been something unique to that church but I've seen it elsewhere over the years.
> 
> That said, I'm sure reformed churches don't have a monopoly on the problem. Based on some of my family who attend Brethren or fundamentalist, independent-type churches, it would appear it is quite prevalent in other strands of Protestantism as well.
> 
> ...


 
  and 

Margaret


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## Pergamum (Sep 20, 2008)

Big Churches Not Always Impersonal, Study Finds - washingtonpost.com

Wow, if we are classified as "small churches" and we are compared with mega-churches, suprisingly people even find Mega-churches friendlier than smaller churches.


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## jonmo (Sep 20, 2008)

Not particularly surprised by the mega-church survey results. I used to go to Redeemer PCA in Manhattan and, while it was massive (4,000+ at the Sunday services), there was a really strong emphasis on community and "getting connected", and as a result, it actually turned out to be a pretty "personal experience" after a while.


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## SueS (Sep 20, 2008)

Our former church has the reputation of being very friendly. Unfortunately, that "friendliness" ends when people decide to leave - they simply disappear off the face of the earth. We were there for 28 years and "loved" by many but have been totally ignored by former brothers and sisters in the two years since we left. 

However, the first time we visited our present church, a PCA, we were walking up the aisle to leave and a tall, grey-haired woman with a huge smile on her face approached us. I had a moment of panic, thinking, "She thinks she knows us and I haven't the foggiest idea who she is!!" She turned out to be a lovely Scottish lady with a beautiful burr who has become a good friend. As we left we were greeted by several other people. Within a few weeks we felt as if we had been in this particular church for years and have since made more firm relationships than we had ever had in the 28 years at our old church. First EP isn't perfect by any means and I have heard others complain about it not being particularly friendly but the folks there made us feel welcome at a very traumatic time in our lives and I will always be grateful for that.

By nature I'm not the most outgoing person and struggle to talk with visitors but I'm making the effort to reach out because people reached out to me.


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