# The PB has RUINED me!



## DMcFadden (May 2, 2010)

OK, maybe it isn’t exactly the PB’s “fault,” but my time spent here has impacted my thinking on so many levels. 

Today Jeanette and I attended a farewell celebration for our judicatory executive. It was hosted by one of the larger congregations in our fellowship, pastored by a fellow alum from my seminary . Here is what we saw:

• The “lobby” was probably 2/3 the size of the worship center. It was attractively appointed in an upscale hotel-hospitality décor.
• It featured LOTS of flat screen video screens advertising church ministries and outreach. Today it was promoting a church production of “Beauty and the Beast,” a “ballroom dancing class,” an aerobics group, a summer youth sports camp, and a all-city soccer league hosted by the church (involving thousands of kids).
• The “spiritual” promotion was for “The Me I Want to Be” classes each Tuesday.
• In the lobby was an attractive set of signs (2’ x 6’) announcing that they only brew “Peet’s Coffee,” a particular brand of artisan roaster coffee which is “out of this world” and “unlike anything you have ever tasted” in their “Holy Grounds” coffee shop.
• The coffee bar, tray line, and general layout of the food court area was more impressively designed and laid out than any hotel or restaurant I have ever seen.

These are very fine people, hold theologically conservative views, seek to "win the world" for Christ, and do not partake of many of the defective views of much evangelicalism.

Marveling at the amazing industry and beehive of activities (drama, dozens of sports groups running year long, oodles of interest groups, an arts academy, etc.), I went home profoundly disturbed and more than a little depressed. Having been raised in broad evangelicalism, this was in many ways the quintessential example of what “making good” would look like in an evangelical culture. But, a few years on the PB makes me realize that “this world is not my home” . . . any longer.

Wow! Very interesting. Warning, the PB could be dangerous to your ecclesiastical standards and value system.


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## Timothy William (May 2, 2010)

DMcFadden said:


> • The “spiritual” promotion was for “The Me I Want to Be” classes each Tuesday.


 
While much of the rest sounds unwise or in poor taste, this item struck me as really dubious. Please tell me it was not as bad as it sounds.


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## JohnGill (May 2, 2010)

Thank you for the warning!


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## kvanlaan (May 2, 2010)

> The PB has RUINED me!
> 
> OK, maybe it isn’t exactly the PB’s “fault,” but my time spent here has impacted my thinking on so many levels.
> 
> ...



I am thankful for the ruination worked on me by the PB!


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## tlharvey7 (May 2, 2010)

the "me" i want to be..... that may be a different "me" than the Lord wants.


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt (May 2, 2010)

Glad we were happy to ruin you (and myself) on that. Here's hoping it will be the will of God to ruin the rest of the US on such theology.

As much as I hate to say it, it is better for this nation to be full of Atheists than it is to be full of hypocrites in the eyes of the Lord. At least Atheists are consistent in the execution of the beliefs.

[BIBLE]Revelation 3:15-17 [/BIBLE]


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## KMK (May 2, 2010)

Maybe I will put up a sign at my church that reads:

"We only brew Maxwell House Coffee. Like the Holy Spirit, it is good to the last drop." 

(You youngsters won't get the joke, but Dennis will.)


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## DMcFadden (May 2, 2010)

The "Me" class is NOT original to my friend's church. It is a John Ortberg (PhD Fuller psychology) curriculum. Ortberg was a pastor in CA, then a teaching pastor at WillowCreek with Hybels, now a Presbyterian pastor (PCUSA???) in a mega church in CA. Interesting Presbyterian church since John's church was promoting their upcoming immersion Baptism on their website. (Maybe this is what happens when you get your pastor out of the "seeker sensitive" movement or maybe this is a long standing feature of the church ministry. I was a little surprised to see it so prominently???) 

The Ortberg curriculum says: "



> If God has a perfect vision for your life, why does spiritual growth seem so difficult? Pastor and best selling author John Ortberg has some intriguing answers to that question, and he has organized his thoughts and God's words into a straightforward and timely guide for living your best life . . . John Ortberg urges you to recognize your brokenness, understand that God is the project manager, and follow God's directions. He also helps you gauge your spiritual health and measure the gap between where you are now and where God intends you to be. Learn to be a thriving and flourishing Christ-follower as you study these 5 sessions



And, yes, Ken, I get it. You are also sooooo old.


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## Berean (May 2, 2010)

> But, a few years on the PB makes me realize that “this world is not my home” . . . any longer.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 2, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> > the pb has ruined me!
> >
> > Ok, maybe it isn’t exactly the pb’s “fault,” but my time spent here has impacted my thinking on so many levels.
> >
> ...


 
amen!!!

---------- Post added at 01:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:45 PM ----------

Out of all the things I read "Holy Grounds" was the most offensive.


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## Scott1 (May 2, 2010)

DMcFadden said:


> OK, maybe it isn’t exactly the PB’s “fault,” but my time spent here has impacted my thinking on so many levels.
> 
> Today Jeanette and I attended a farewell celebration for our judicatory executive. It was hosted by one of the larger congregations in our fellowship, pastored by a fellow alum from my seminary . Here is what we saw:
> 
> ...



God, by His grace, and in His Providence, through the Word of God, rightly heard and applied is revealing to you, and us all... the blindness of our sin.



> 13And the Jews' passover was at hand, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem.
> 
> 14And found in the temple those that sold oxen and sheep and doves, and the changers of money sitting:
> 
> ...


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## PuritanCovenanter (May 2, 2010)

I am so thankful. I was born from good stock. LOL. The RPW was instilled in me from birth. Well, not physical birth. I have participated in a few churches that ended up being seeker sensitive. 

I was poisoned by good theology from the outset of my Christian walk. Pastor Joe Gwynn infected me. I aint never been the same and by God's divine influence and providence I aint going back. God has been Merciful to Us Dennis.


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## Poimen (May 2, 2010)

DMcFadden said:


> The Ortberg curriculum says: "
> 
> 
> 
> > If God has a perfect vision for your life, why does spiritual growth seem so difficult? Pastor and best selling author John Ortberg has some intriguing answers to that question, *and he has organized his thoughts and God's words into a straightforward and timely guide for living your best life* . . . John Ortberg urges you to recognize your brokenness, understand that God is the project manager, and follow God's directions. He also helps you gauge your spiritual health and measure the gap between where you are now and where God intends you to be. Learn to be a thriving and flourishing Christ-follower as you study these 5 sessions



I might purchase the book if his thoughts and God's Words are organized into two separate columns with the former's heading being 'FALSE' and the latter's 'TRUE'.


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## ac7k (May 2, 2010)

It is funny that you mention Ortberg, I led a small group in my church using his "When the game is over, it all goes back in the box". I didn't think anything of it while I was teaching it. (I am new to reformed thinking). The message wasn't bad, "You can't take it with you" type stuff... but definitely not reformed, and if it wasn't for PB, I probably would not have noticed - so thank you.


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## MW (May 2, 2010)

The PB will break you, but only as a preparative for moulding you afresh.


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## Grymir (May 3, 2010)

I'm sure there was a Barth life-size stand-up there somewhere!

Good to see someone actually practicing discernment!


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