# Jude 22-23



## Barnpreacher (Aug 19, 2008)

Certainly the preached Word of God is the means of grace whereby God brings wayward Christians back to Him, but what role does a lay-brother or sister in Christ play in this area? The context of these verses seem to be talking to them does it not? How is this kind of reproof done by a lay-person? Do they go and talk to the elders about what they are going to do? Obviously the elders should know what is going on in the particular individuals life and should have already talked to them about it. Is it ever the place of a lay-person to go to a brother in Christ about sin without first going to the elders?

For those ministers preaching this passage how would you explain it to your congregation? Would you tell them in your message to first come and talk to you or another elder before going to a wayward brother or sister in Christ? Would you tell them in your message to use wisdom and discernment and go to talk to a wayward brother in Christ without first going to the elders about the matter?

Need some help with this passage, please.

Thanks.


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## regenerated (Aug 19, 2008)

Barnpreacher,
May the grace of God be made known to you beyond all measure.
My dear brother In-Christ, Jude as you probably know was written to christians as a warning that they not be contaminated by false teaching.

That they are sanctified and preserved in-Christ is observed from verse 1.
However,they are exhorted to respond against false teachers who have infiltrated the church.

How better to expose their false teaching than by preaching the true Gospel.

By becoming mature in their faith,they are able then to help those weaker christians who are in danger of being seduced into believing a false gospel.

Whether that is a ministry for elders or non-elders is open to debate.

cheers

R


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## bookslover (Aug 20, 2008)

Well, since Jude was written to Christians generally ("to those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ" - verse 1, NKJV), then verses 22-23 are instructions for Christians generally, using colorful language regarding the believer's ability to watch over the spiritual health of others.

Just before these instructions, he addresses his remarks to the "beloved" (verse 20). This cannot refer to Jude, since the "yourselves" in verses 20-21 are, of course, plural.

So, I would understand these verses as being instructions to Christians generally.


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## Barnpreacher (Aug 20, 2008)

Thanks, guys.

I'm with you on the context. I guess what I'm wondering more about is the method of how a non-elder would address a Christian that seems to be taken or falling in sin. I would definitely think that it would have to be a mature believer that could ever have the discernment on how to approach a situation like this.

Some of my questions would be:

1. Could a non-elder make matters worse if they didn't go to an elder about the situation first?

2. Are they obligated from Scripture to go first to an elder about the matter?


I'm trying to relate this passage from the early church to our local churches today. It seems to me (at least perhaps in most churches I have experience in) that most non-elders of local congregations wouldn't even know how to address a situation like the one here in Jude 22-23.


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## bookslover (Aug 20, 2008)

There could be situations where going to an elder first might be impossible given the crisis-nature of a specific situation.

There are also denominations and churches that have no elders, so that wouldn't even be feasible.

I agree with you that mature Christians are best able to handle situations like this but, again, this isn't always possible. In each of these cases, it all depends on the situation at hand.

Thus, Jude's wisdom (guided by the Holy Spirit) in writing to Christians generally.


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## toddpedlar (Aug 20, 2008)

bookslover said:


> There could be situations where going to an elder first might be impossible given the crisis-nature of a specific situation.
> 
> There are also denominations and churches that have no elders, so that wouldn't even be feasible.



Churches that have no elders are no churches, though actual believers might mistakenly be there.



> I agree with you that mature Christians are best able to handle situations like this but, again, this isn't always possible. In each of these cases, it all depends on the situation at hand.
> 
> Thus, Jude's wisdom (guided by the Holy Spirit) in writing to Christians generally.



These verses seem completely consistent with the watch we are to exercise over our brethren in the faith. I don't see any reason to doubt their applicability to all believers.


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## py3ak (Aug 20, 2008)

It was my privilege in Mexico to witness believers ministering to one another, provoking one another to love and to good works, encouraging one another, and through love preventing one another from going down wrong paths of thought and action. I love the vigorous rebukes they could give one another. "You must be really saved now: you don't need to go to church anymore like the rest of us poor sinners."
Of course, it was also my privilege to mediate disputes, to tell them to stop being so sensitive and to be more aware of their brothers' and sisters' points of view and feelings.
I don't think the disputes ever arose from someone trying to help.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Aug 20, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> ... I guess what I'm wondering more about is the method of how a non-elder would address a Christian that seems to be taken or falling in sin. I would definitely think that it would have to be a mature believer that could ever have the discernment on how to approach a situation like this...




I think Paul would agree with you. 



> Galatians 6:1-2
> Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. [2] Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.



Such work belongs to *the mature, or spiritual*, but is not restricted to office-bearers. 

Some of the wisest most spiritual discerning counsel I've recieved has come from Christians who have walked with the Lord for decades but have never an held office.


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## Barnpreacher (Aug 20, 2008)

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> Barnpreacher said:
> 
> 
> > ... I guess what I'm wondering more about is the method of how a non-elder would address a Christian that seems to be taken or falling in sin. I would definitely think that it would have to be a mature believer that could ever have the discernment on how to approach a situation like this...
> ...



As I studied this passage in Jude last night and today passages like Galatians 6 began to pop out at me.

I just think we see so little of this kind of exhortation and reproof from spiritual non-elders that we're simply not used to it in our churches. That's why I am struggling a bit with how to approach this passage on Sunday as I preach on it. I want the people to know this passage is relevant for them, but I also want them to be able to understand the application of it.


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## bookslover (Aug 22, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Churches that have no elders are no churches, though actual believers might mistakenly be there.



Well, let's be charitable and say that there are genuine churches with no elders which are in need of more bibllical instruction. I've known cases (one especially, with a pastor friend who is now with the Lord) where churches with no elders have studied the New Testament closely and have come away with the conviction that a multiplicity of elders is a biblical mandate - and have done something about it.


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