# I didn't know Anabaptists believed that



## blhowes (Aug 26, 2006)

I read through the Belgic Confession last night for the first time. What a blessing it was to read it (and some background info), especially the articles that spoke of Christ's humanity/divinity and the trinity.

I was a little surprised by this, from Article 18 (The Incarnation of the Son of God):


> Contrary to the heresy of the Anabaptists, who deny that Christ assumed human flesh of His mother, we therefore confess that Christ partook of the flesh and blood of the children.


Did the Anabaptists really believe this? What exactly did the Anabaptists teach?


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## Puritanhead (Aug 26, 2006)

*Well, English Baptists Never Believed That!!!*

As I understand, Bernhard Rothmann, Kaspar Schwenkfeld, Melchior Hoffman, Menno Simons, Dirk Philips and others held and taught an idea which has been dubbed "celestial flesh."

BTW If you non-Baptists, confessional Reformed Protestants are going to dig up and make reference to the so called _heresies of the ana-baptists_, I think you could do us Congregational Christians and Reformed Baptists in the historic Baptist tradition justice, by noting that there is a profound distinction between the English-Baptist Tradition and the central European tradition from which this false teaching arose. Likewise, the few Dutch Baptists if I understand correctly were more in line with the English historic Baptists. 

Old heresies have a tendency to resonate and reappear. Thus, the faint echoes of the Romanist doctrine of immaculate conception and the sinlessness of Mary, were in the minds of the misguided anabaptists, and perhaps the faint echoes of a quasi-docetism as well. In any case, it was false teaching that was lurking in the shadows of the minds of the misguided anabaptists who postulated the concept of "celestial flesh." The Belgic Confession is right to condemn this teaching.

[Edited on 8-26-2006 by Puritanhead]


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## Ivan (Aug 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> As I understand, Bernhard Rothmann, Melchior Hoffman, Menno Simons, Dirk Philips and others held and taught an idea which has been dubbed "celestial flesh."
> 
> BTW If you non-Baptists, confessional Reformed Protestants are going to dig up and make reference to the so called _heresies of the ana-baptists_, I think you could do us Congregational Christians and Reformed Baptists in the historic Baptist tradition justice, by noting that there is a profound distinction between the English-Baptist Tradition, and the central European tradition from which this teaching arose. Likewise, the few Dutch Baptists if I understand correctly were more in line with the English historic Baptists.
> ...


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## R. Scott Clark (Aug 26, 2006)

The notion of Christ's "celestial flesh" is probably more closely related to the dualism of the medieval Cathars/Albigenses (perhaps the most hated heretics of the middle ages) who were deeply influenced by versions of Platonism. 

The doctrine of the celestial flesh is certainly docetism ("seems to be human, but isn't") and heretical for that. 

Nearly all the Anabaptists also denied the doctrine of justification sola fide on the ground that it tends to promote immorality. In this they did agree with Rome. 

In his critique of the Anabaptists (_La Racine..._ )DeBres makes much of these errors.

rsc


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## Puritanhead (Aug 26, 2006)

In other words, these barnyard _anabaptists_, were essentially beholden to a form of Romanism, albeit a form stripped of its sacramental and liturgical excesses, with a similar misguided soteriology and Christology.


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## R. Scott Clark (Aug 26, 2006)

Yes.

rsc



> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> In other words, these barnyard _anabaptists_, were essentially beholden to a form of Romanism, albeit a form stripped of its sacramental and liturgical excesses, with a similar misguided soteriology and Christology.


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## LadyFlynt (Aug 26, 2006)

yes, in fact, if you had seen hubby in his sackjacket you would have mistaken him for a priest.

Seriously, they have a severe distaste for anything Catholic...yet they resemble them in sooooo many ways.


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## blhowes (Aug 28, 2006)

Thank-you for your comments, Ryan and Dr. Clark. (sorry so long responding - no internet connection at home for the time being).

From Wikipedia:


> Hoffman wrote, "We have now heard enough that the whole seed of Adam, be it of man, woman, or virgin, is cursed and delivered to eternal death. Now if the body of Jesus Christ was also such flesh and of this seed...it follows that the redemption has not yet happened. For the seed of Adam belongs to Satan and is the property of the devil."



So, is the dilemna that they tried (heretically) to resolve that they believed:

Article 15 - Original Sin
We believe that by the disobedience of Adam original sin has spread throughout the whole human race. It is a corruption of the entire nature of man and a hereditary evil which infects even infants in their mother´s womb. (from Belgic Confession)

and for them it would follow that if Jesus received his humanity from Mary, that He would have been infected by the 'hereditary evil'?


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