# postmil understanding of Rev 17:18



## psaulm119 (Feb 28, 2004)

[i:73c57a9ae2]Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. [/i:73c57a9ae2]

I have come to a preterist understanding of Rev and eschatology in general. I am wondering if any postmils out there would like to provide their understaning of this verse. Gentry in his commentary argues that John was speaking covenantally, in that Jerusalem was supposed to be the spiritual head of the nations, even though it really wasn't. This seems rather weak to me--we don't read that this city was [i:73c57a9ae2]supposed to[/i:73c57a9ae2] reign, but that they did reign, over the kings of the earth. 

Any takers?

Blessings, 
Paul


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## Fernando (Feb 29, 2004)

*The city*

I don't consider myself to be a postmill, but I'm not sure that postmillennialism depends on the interpretation of this text. Most postmills have been historicists and so have seen the great city as Rome.


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## psaulm119 (Feb 29, 2004)

On the contrary, the two positions (historicist and postmillenial) would be quite different. Historicism would see the events of Rev 4-18 as taking place between the 60s AD and the 2nd Coming, whereas teh postmillenial position sees these as already having taken place (even chapter 19 would have already taken place). 

I would agree that the postmill position doesn't [i:3f79b25766]depend[/i:3f79b25766] on this verse (this is apocalyptic literature, to be sure, and can be expected to be a bit cryptic). I'm just wondering what other explanations can be made for this verse, in the light of the great city's identity with Jerusalem of the 60s AD (which I do hold to).


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## Fernando (Feb 29, 2004)

*Postmills and historicism*

It is well documented and not at all controversial that most postmillennialists of the past were historicists. Read David Brown's classic work &quot;Christ's Second Coming: Will it be Premillennial?&quot; for one example. The great postmillennialists of the Puritan era were historicists. A current example of that kind of belief would be Iain Murray, author of &quot;The Puritan Hope.&quot; I'm not sure what gave you the idea that historicism and postmillennialism were incompatible.


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## psaulm119 (Feb 29, 2004)

Now that I think about it, I suppose its not logically incoherent that (a) one sees Rev 4-18 as describing events that occur throughout European history, and (b) Rev 19-20 as describing a future victory/establishment of the Kingdom, which will nonetheless precede the Second Coming. Like I said, just haven't seen it.


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## Fernando (Mar 1, 2004)

*Historicist postmills*

The books I mentioned above would be good sources. Another work from the Puritan era to consult is Matthew Poole's commentary on the Bible. His interpretation of Revelation is Historicist and on 20:2 he comes down favoring a Postmillennial view.

One defining view of Historicism is the belief that the pope is the man of sin. Here is what Ch. XXV, sec. VI of the Westminster confession has to say on the subject:

VI. There is no other head of the Church, but the Lord Jesus Christ; nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalteth himself, in the Church. against Christ and all that is called God.

You probably know that John Owen was one of the writers of that confession, and he was a Postmillennialist. 

Jonathan Edwards was both Historicist and Postmillennialist.. 

Charles Hodge, whom all agree to have been a Postmillennialist, had this to say in his Systematic Theology about the Antichrist: &quot;The common opinion, however, among Protestants is, that the prophecies concerning Antichrist have special reference to the papacy.&quot; He then goes on to defend this Historicist interpretation.

Still Waters Revival Books is a ministry of a Historicist Postmill denomination in Canada. F. Nigel Lee is a contemporary Historicist Postmillennialist who has a commentary on Revelation in print: &quot;John's Revelation Unveiled&quot;. You can get it through the usual online booksellers.


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## psaulm119 (Mar 1, 2004)

OK. Thanks. One of the attractions of postmillenialism is the preterist view, which I find very compelling, given the use of eggus, en takhei (to say nothing of the &quot;this generation&quot; comment in Mt 24). But I will surf the the links you provided. Had no idea that historicism had such a distinguished pedigree (within the postmil ranks). 

Well, I was hoping to find something on Rev 17:18. That didn't happen, but looks like I learned something, anyways.


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