# Westminster - Philly



## FenderPriest (Mar 19, 2009)

Out of curiosity, does anybody here attend Westminster in Philly?


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## greenbaggins (Mar 19, 2009)

I graduated from there only four years ago. Why do you ask?


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## FenderPriest (Mar 19, 2009)

I'm looking into attending in the fall part-time. I'm unable to do full-time, and am having some difficulty thinking through their prerequisite Greek satisfaction before starting NT courses (and conversely Hebrew for OT classes). I'm trying to connect with some guys in my church who know Greek already to learn from them and hopefully test a satisfactory pass on the NT 010. The other aspect of my inquiry is simply looking for any input or thoughts on part-time school work and contacts at the school.


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## WaywardNowHome (Mar 19, 2009)

As one who plans to enroll at Westminster Philly in the Fall of 2010, this thread has potential to be very useful for me (as well as the OP, of course).

How does WTS Philly compare with other seminaries? Is it worth attending or should I research some other seminaries? WTS Philly is very convenient for me since it is 10min from my house, plus it is (as far as I know) very Biblical.

My current pastor, who isn't necessarily Reformed but is not opposed to its teachings either, asked me to reconsider attending Westminster because he said it was overly academic and it could possibly kill my spiritual drive.


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## greenbaggins (Mar 19, 2009)

I would heartily recommend the seminary to you both. However, be warned that a little "dabbling" in Greek will not get you a pass for the rigorous Greek they teach there. You should study it as rigorously as possible anyway. The NT in Greek is worthy of such study. And Greek and Hebrew form the backbone of the seminary education.


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## CharlieJ (Mar 19, 2009)

Joel, if you stated both your goals for your seminary education and your future plans, others would be able to advise you better.


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## FenderPriest (Mar 19, 2009)

greenbaggins said:


> I would heartily recommend the seminary to you both. However, be warned that a little "dabbling" in Greek will not get you a pass for the rigorous Greek they teach there. You should study it as rigorously as possible anyway. The NT in Greek is worthy of such study. And Greek and Hebrew form the backbone of the seminary education.



Indeed. I'm sorry if I gave the impression of trying to skip around the Greek. The course requirements aren't set up very well for people trying to take classes part-time. With the Greek, at the moment I'm trying to get enough under my belt to get the NT010 requirement, but not forsaking more growth in that area nor seeking to skirt the expectations!

Also, Joel, I don't think rigorous academics steals one's soul away! There are many things that could be said here, but since I don't know you, I would simply recommend evaluating your motives, and keeping helpful guys around to make sure your heart is more overwhelmed by the grace of the Lord Jesus to you in the Gospel than you are with your course work. I'd recommend a few dead Puritans to fuel the life in your soul...


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## FenderPriest (Mar 26, 2009)

greenbaggins,

I'm looking at the books for classes on the Westminster Bookstore's website, and I have a question about them. Next to the books marked as reading for a class, there's a percentage marker: what is that for? For example, the site shows that Barth's Church Dogmatics 1:1 is tagged for the ST 101 class. What does the percentage marker of 5% mean? Is that a discount on the book for registered students? Is that the amount of text from the book that you'll read in the class? Is that the likelihood of getting that book assigned for the class? Any thoughts here would be helpful.

Thanks!


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## greenbaggins (Mar 26, 2009)

The percentage refers to how much of the book you are required to read.


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## TheocraticMonarchist (Mar 26, 2009)

FenderPriest said:


> greenbaggins,
> 
> I'm looking at the books for classes on the Westminster Bookstore's website, and I have a question about them. Next to the books marked as reading for a class, there's a percentage marker: what is that for? For example, the site shows that Barth's Church Dogmatics 1:1 is tagged for the ST 101 class. What does the percentage marker of 5% mean? Is that a discount on the book for registered students? Is that the amount of text from the book that you'll read in the class? Is that the likelihood of getting that book assigned for the class? Any thoughts here would be helpful.
> 
> Thanks!



Isn't Barth a heretic!? 

-----Added 3/26/2009 at 10:16:16 EST-----



greenbaggins said:


> The percentage refers to how much of the book you are required to read.



whew! I was worried there for a moment. I guess 5% is just enough to see what the other side believes


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## FenderPriest (Mar 26, 2009)

greenbaggins, two questions:
1) Are all Intro. Systematics's classes the same?
2) Do you still have a copy of your course syllabus? (And could I get a copy if you do?)


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## greenbaggins (Mar 27, 2009)

FenderPriest said:


> greenbaggins, two questions:
> 1) Are all Intro. Systematics's classes the same?
> 2) Do you still have a copy of your course syllabus? (And could I get a copy if you do?)



1. Not all intro classes are the same, since different profs teach it different years. However, they do wind up teaching on the required issues to be dealt with in prolegomena, although, in my opinion, they could have spent more time in encyclopedia than they did. 

2. I usually only retain my class notes. However, if you called Lane Tipton or Dave Garner, I'm sure they would oblige you with their syllabi (tell them you know me, though Lane knows me a whole lot better than Dave does). 



> Isn't Barth a heretic!?



Yes, he is, and WTS knows that very well. The only way to be able to refute heretics is to read their stuff. A pastor needs to be able to do that kind of work.


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## FenderPriest (Apr 16, 2009)

Just thought I'd mention that I was informed today that I have been accepted for studies at Westminster starting this fall.


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## Scott1 (Apr 16, 2009)

Congratulations!


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## chbrooking (Apr 16, 2009)

I graduated 10 years ago. There's been a lot of faculty turnover since then. But I would think of all places, the PB would scoff at the notion that academics would ruin a pastor. I think it is the opposite. And, while I of course credit God for holding me firm in the faith during doctoral studies, one of the most important tools he used was the strong grounding in Systematics and Apologetics that I received at WTS. I only wish I had taken my time on my MDiv instead of rushing through it. I highly recommend the Seminary to you both.


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## PresbyDane (Apr 16, 2009)

Congratulations


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## DonP (Apr 16, 2009)

If you are not as heavy into academia and more into practical good training in the ministry you might Consider GPTS, MARS, Puritan Ref , as excellent seminaries and with less reading requirements that have been known to discourage some men.


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## Michael Doyle (Apr 16, 2009)

Congratulations Jacob.


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## greenbaggins (Apr 16, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> If you are not as heavy into academia and more into practical good training in the ministry you might Consider GPTS, MARS, Heritage, as excellent seminaries and with less reading requirements that have been known to discourage some men.



As a graduate of WTS Philly, I do not think you do either the seminary or the general pastoral requirement of reading any favors by thus pitting reading against "good training in the ministry." I received outstanding training for the ministry at this heavily academic institution. Furthermore, seminaries that require "less reading" are not necessarily turning out better pastors. MARS is scarcely less academic than WTS anyway in terms of the reading requirements. I have less knowledge of GPTS and Heritage. 

Heavy reading is required for the ministry. John Wesley said "Read, or get out of the ministry." Spurgeon was the most widely read man of his day, bar none. 

Of course, there can be a divorce between the academy and the church. This has happened in many institutions. WTS is not one of them.


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## lynnie (Apr 16, 2009)

I was just over there today to get a book. My parents live a couple miles away so it is real handy for me when I am in PA. I had to get out of the bookstore, my self control was eroding real fast!

Be sure to always check the KYW web page traffic and transit link, every time. Today they had construction by the Ft Wash exit, and more on 73 at Valley Green Rd. 

Congratulations! 

Regarding peacemakers comment, we know WTS pastors who felt that without the addition of the extra non required CCEF classes they took, they would have lacked some helpful tools in pastoring troubled people. I believe only 1 practical theology class is required now, or at least that is how it was. With the culture being sooooo screwed up, and marriages in the church a mess, and people with rotten role models for parents, those who studied with Ed Welch, Tripp, etc have found their imput to be invaluable. I am all for heavy reading, but some reading about the idolatrous substructure underneath depression, panic, lust, teen girls self mutilating, etc, can be helpful to a pastor. And it is for that reason some are choosing Redeemer Dallas instead of WTS. At least that is what I hear up this way.......


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## DonP (Apr 16, 2009)

greenbaggins said:


> PeaceMaker said:
> 
> 
> > If you are not as heavy into academia and more into practical good training in the ministry you might Consider GPTS, MARS, Heritage, as excellent seminaries and with less reading requirements that have been known to discourage some men.
> ...



And that is a matter of opinion also. I prefer a seminary more closely overseen by a church. Rather than a private for profit corporation that may have temptation to get popular profs rather than the best and ones who see themselves so free and independent from the church they would not need to answer censures.


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## Ivan (Apr 16, 2009)

Don, where is Heritage seminary you have mentioned?


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## DonP (Apr 16, 2009)

Ivan said:


> Don, where is Heritage seminary you have mentioned?



Sorry senior moment. Thinking of Heritage Ref church and Heritage books, I meant Puritan Reformed Seminary, Joel Beeke's


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## Ivan (Apr 16, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> > Don, where is Heritage seminary you have mentioned?
> ...



Well, sir, from what I've seen it's an excellent one!


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