# Need articels/books : Lord's day is not the Sabbth



## Mayflower (Mar 30, 2008)

I know that the most of the members see, the Lords day (sunday) as the NT sabbath. Iam looking for books or articels which explains the opposite, were it is shown that the Lord's day is not the Sabbath. as far as i know, Calvin did not a have a high view of the lords day being the Sabbath.
So please don't give links of critics of Calvin or others, but i need a defense from those whom are not holding to the sabbath for the sunday!


----------



## Nse007 (Mar 30, 2008)

Why do you need an article like that? For what purpose? The Reformed view of all the confessions (required to be a member of the board) contain Sabbatarian teaching.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Mar 30, 2008)

Mayflower said:


> I as far as i know, Calvin did not a have a high view of the lords day being the Sabbath.
> So please don't give links of critics of Calvin or others, but i need a defense from those whom are not holding to the sabbath for the sunday!


This is not true. See:
Naphtali Press » Calvin in the Hands of the Philistines: Or Did Calvin Bowl on the Sabbath?
This sometimes does not display; if so, see the original PDF here.
See also Woody Lauer's excellent article in the 2007 Confessional Presbyterian:
*John Calvin, the Nascent Sabbatarian: A Reconsideration of Calvin’s View of Two Key Sabbath-Issues.* _By Stewart E. Lauer_


----------



## A5pointer (Mar 30, 2008)

D. A. Carson


----------



## A5pointer (Mar 30, 2008)

Nse007 said:


> Why do you need an article like that? For what purpose? The Reformed view of all the confessions (required to be a member of the board) contain Sabbatarian teaching.



We need not fear taking a look, if any of us lock ourselves into a just because mentality we miss opportunity to strenghten our confidence and defend biblically what we believe.


----------



## ColdSilverMoon (Mar 30, 2008)

Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6. 

Redeemer Sermon Store: Work and Rest

As an aside, living in New York where there is a very large orthodox Jewish population makes it easy to see how difficult the Levitical law in general and the Sabbath in particular can be. Most buildings here have a "Sabbath elevator" that is programmed to stop on every single floor so that the Jews don't have to push the buttons and thus "operate" the machine on the Sabbath. And many won't use a pen to sign anything on the Sabbath. It makes me thankful we are freed from this way of life!


----------



## Mayflower (Mar 30, 2008)

Nse007 said:


> Why do you need an article like that? For what purpose? The Reformed view of all the confessions (required to be a member of the board) contain Sabbatarian teaching.



I don't understand, why you ask this question, i only want to hear some arguments ? Iam convince that the Lords day is a day of rest and to separeted for the church to worship, but iam not sure if i might called it the NT sabbath ?


----------



## Mayflower (Mar 30, 2008)

What do you think ?
--------------------

The following "Question" was asked of John MacArthur Jr., the pastor of Grace Community Church, Sun Valley, California. Copyright 2001 by John MacArthur Jr., All Rights Reserved.

Question

Are the Sabbath laws binding on Christians today?

Answer

We believe the Old Testament regulations governing Sabbath observances are ceremonial, not moral, aspects of the law. As such, they are no longer in force, but have passed away along with the sacrificial system, the Levitical priesthood, and all other aspects of Moses' law that prefigured Christ. Here are the reasons we hold this view.


In Colossians 2:16-17, Paul explicitly refers to the Sabbath as a shadow of Christ, which is no longer binding since the substance (Christ) has come. It is quite clear in those verses that the weekly Sabbath is in view. The phrase "a festival or a new moon or a Sabbath day" refers to the annual, monthly, and weekly holy days of the Jewish calendar (cf. 1 Chronicles 23:31; 2 Chronicles 2:4; 31:3; Ezekiel 45:17; Hosea 2:11). If Paul were referring to special ceremonial dates of rest in that passage, why would he have used the word "Sabbath?" He had already mentioned the ceremonial dates when he spoke of festivals and new moons. 

The Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Mosaic Covenant (Exodus 31:16-17; Ezekiel 20:12; Nehemiah 9:14). Since we are now under the New Covenant (Hebrews 8), we are no longer required to observe the sign of the Mosaic Covenant. 

The New Testament never commands Christians to observe the Sabbath. 

In our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, the church met on the first day of the week (Acts 20:7). 

Nowhere in the Old Testament are the Gentile nations commanded to observe the Sabbath or condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if Sabbath observance were meant to be an eternal moral principle. 

There is no evidence in the Bible of anyone keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands in the Bible to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mt. Sinai. 

When the Apostles met at the Jerusalem council (Acts 15), they did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers. 

The apostle Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but breaking the Sabbath was never one of them. 

In Galatians 4:10-11, Paul rebukes the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath). 

In Romans 14:5, Paul forbids those who observe the Sabbath (these were no doubt Jewish believers) to condemn those who do not (Gentile believers). 

The early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship (contrary to the claim of many seventh-day sabbatarians who claim that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century). 

Sunday has not replaced Saturday as the Sabbath. Rather the Lord's Day is a time when believers gather to commemorate His resurrection, which occurred on the first day of the week. Every day to the believer is one of Sabbath rest, since we have ceased from our spiritual labor and are resting in the salvation of the Lord (Hebrews 4:9-11).
So while we still follow the pattern of designating one day of the week a day for the Lord's people to gather in worship, we do not refer to this as "the Sabbath."

John Calvin took a similar position. He wrote, 

There were three reasons for giving this [fourth] commandment: First, with the seventh day of rest the Lord wished to give to the people of Israel an image of spiritual rest, whereby believers must cease from their own works in order to let the Lord work in them. Secondly, he wished that there be an established day in which believers might assemble in order to hear his Law and worship him. Thirdly, he willed that one day of rest be granted to servants and to those who live under the power of others so that they might have a relaxation from their labor. The latter, however, is rather an inferred than a principal reason.

As to the first reason, there is no doubt that it ceased in Christ; because he is the truth by the presence of which all images vanish. He is the reality at whose advent all shadows are abandoned. Hence St. Paul (Col. 2:17) affirms that the sabbath has been a shadow of a reality yet to be. And he declares else-where its truth when in the letter to the Romans, ch. 6:8, he teaches us that we are buried with Christ in order that by his death we may die to the corruption of our flesh. And this is not done in one day, but during all the course of our life, until altogether dead in our own selves, we may be filled with the life of God. Hence, superstitious observance of days must remain far from Christians.

The two last reasons, however, must not be numbered among the shadows of old. Rather, they are equally valid for all ages. Hence, though the sabbath is abrogated, it so happens among us that we still convene on certain days in order to hear the word of God, to break the [mystic] bread of the Supper, and to offer public prayers; and, moreover, in order that some relaxation from their toil be given to servants and workingmen. As our human weakness does not allow such assemblies to meet every day, the day observed by the Jews has been taken away (as a good device for eliminating superstition) and another day has been destined to this use. This was necessary for securing and maintaining order and peace in the Church.

As the truth therefore was given to the Jews under a figure, so to us on the contrary truth is shown without shadows in order, first of all, that we meditate all our life on a perpetual sabbath from our works so that the Lord may operate in us by his spirit; secondly, in order that we observe the legitimate order of the Church for listening to the word of God, for admin-istering the sacraments, and for public prayers; thirdly, in order that we do not oppress inhumanly with work those who are subject to us. [From Instruction in Faith, Calvin's own 1537 digest of the Institutes, sec. 8, "The Law of the Lord"].


----------



## A5pointer (Mar 30, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6.
> 
> Redeemer Sermon Store: Work and Rest
> 
> As an aside, living in New York where there is a very large orthodox Jewish population makes it easy to see how difficult the Levitical law in general and the Sabbath in particular can be. *Most buildings here have a "Sabbath elevator" that is programmed to stop on every single floor so that the Jews don't have to push the buttons and thus "operate" the machine on the Sabbath. And many won't use a pen to sign anything on the Sabbath. It makes me thankful we are freed from this way of life!*



Straining gnats? I taught the crucufixion account of John today. Have to love the irony of the Jews wanting the body down before sunset. Keeping the Law by burying the one who gave them the Law after they murdered him.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 30, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6.
> 
> Redeemer Sermon Store: Work and Rest
> 
> As an aside, living in New York where there is a very large orthodox Jewish population makes it easy to see how difficult the Levitical law in general and the Sabbath in particular can be. Most buildings here have a "Sabbath elevator" that is programmed to stop on every single floor so that the Jews don't have to push the buttons and thus "operate" the machine on the Sabbath. And many won't use a pen to sign anything on the Sabbath. It makes me thankful we are freed from this way of life!




Actually what you see is a perverse understanding of the Sabbath Law. The way the Confessions teach the Observance of the 4th Commandment are not equatable to the way Orthodox Jews of today hold to it. Remember in the history of Judaism the Pharisees described in the NT are literally today's Orthodox Jews.


----------



## greenbaggins (Mar 30, 2008)

The best book from a non-Sunday-Sabbath position is undoubtedly the book edited by Carson. It has already been mentioned, but only by name of the editor. In my opinion, none of the non-Sunday-Sabbath positions have ever done justice to Isaiah 58:13, nor have they done justice to the fact that if Sunday is not the Sabbath, then the fourth commandment is the only commandment that no longer applies in the NT (see Jesus' Sermon on the Mount).


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Mar 30, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6.
> 
> Redeemer Sermon Store: Work and Rest
> 
> As an aside, living in New York where there is a very large orthodox Jewish population makes it easy to see how difficult the Levitical law in general and the Sabbath in particular can be. Most buildings here have a "Sabbath elevator" that is programmed to stop on every single floor so that the Jews don't have to push the buttons and thus "operate" the machine on the Sabbath. And many won't use a pen to sign anything on the Sabbath. It makes me thankful we are freed from this way of life!


It may have been a fine sermon but error is never excellent. The two biggest problems I suspect in the PCA now and for some time now, are its lack of adherence to the confessional view of the second and the fourth commandments.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 30, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> ColdSilverMoon said:
> 
> 
> > Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6.
> ...



I would say especially the 2nd. I plan on doing graduate work on the 2nd Commandment, by far the most abused of the 10 in today's Churches.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Mar 30, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> NaphtaliPress said:
> 
> 
> > ColdSilverMoon said:
> ...


That *is *excellent.


----------



## ColdSilverMoon (Mar 30, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Actually what you see is a perverse understanding of the Sabbath Law. The way the Confessions teach the Observance of the 4th Commandment are not equatable to the way Orthodox Jews of today hold to it. Remember in the history of Judaism the Pharisees described in the NT are literally today's Orthodox Jews.




Very good point...


----------



## ColdSilverMoon (Mar 30, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> It may have been a fine sermon but error is never excellent. The two biggest problems I suspect in the PCA now and for some time now, are its lack of adherence to the confessional view of the second and the fourth commandments.



How is this view unconfessional? Keller wasn't saying we should treat the Lord's Day as any other day, but he made the point that his hardest day of work is on Sunday, so he takes Tuesday off. We should make a point to gather on Sundays and rest whenever possible, but surely there are legitimate exceptions that indicate treating the Lord's Day as Sabbath isn't an absolute requirement.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Mar 30, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> NaphtaliPress said:
> 
> 
> > It may have been a fine sermon but error is never excellent. The two biggest problems I suspect in the PCA now and for some time now, are its lack of adherence to the confessional view of the second and the fourth commandments.
> ...


Maybe I'm simply not understanding you, in addition to not hearing the sermon. But it still seems you are making unconfessional statements or at least relaying unconfessional statements regarding the Lord's day. The Priests and Levites had their hardest day of the week on the Sabbath as well; the Lord's day IS the Christian Sabbath. It is not simply a day off; but God's prescribed day off in order to worship Him. We don't have the right to make exceptions to treating it as such. A minister can have a day off to rest up if he has that luxury; but that is not his sabbath.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Mar 31, 2008)

Per the above, somewhere, I should have noted that my _Calvin in the Hands of the Philistines_ article has a footnote listing many if not all of the anti Sabbatarian books of the 17th century.


----------



## Davidius (Mar 31, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6.



uh...wow...that sounds like something that every single one of my broadly evangelical friends would say. "Heart issue"? Any day of the week?


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 31, 2008)

Bunyan battled the 7th day Baptists so I think he has some stuff Ralph. Bunyans works are online somewhere. You would also do well to look at some other Reformed Baptist material that is pro Sabbath. 

Here is Bunyan in pdf.

http://www.bunyanministries.org/works/vol2/28_questions_about_seventh_day_sabbath.pdf


Works of John Bunyan


----------



## ColdSilverMoon (Mar 31, 2008)

Davidius said:


> ColdSilverMoon said:
> 
> 
> > Tim Keller preached an excellent sermon on this topic a few years ago. You can listen to it through the link below, but the basic point is that the Sabbath is more of a heart issue. He does believe in a physical rest period every week, but he does not believe it has to be on Sunday. His Scripture reference is Luke 6.
> ...



You should probably listen to the sermon. He states his position much more eloquently than I do. And I hear you on the "heart issue" terminology - I usually bristle at that as well. Poor choice of words on my part....


----------

