# When should you say something?



## Caroline (May 22, 2010)

When someone is doing something that is clearly in error, should you say something? I know that we shouldn't always jump all over someone over every little thing. But I'm often caught between thinking:

(1) it's not helpful to never say anything. I wish people had told me I was wrong more when I used to be a Pentecostal fanatic. People were too nice to do that, and, as a result, I never seriously questioned my beliefs for a long time, because everyone seemed to agree with them. Even those that didn't never really said WHY they didn't. They just got quiet and didn't say much of anything. 

(2) Being overly critical can distance people. They may think that every time they open their mouths, you bite their head off. This does not dispose them to talk to you. Everybody is wrong about something.

An example is this: My brother wrote and self-published a book, and he sent me a copy. I'm sure that part of it was that he was trying to evangelize me because my family all considers me lost. The book was Christian fiction (or more like Pentecostal fiction) and it involved this girl who gets saved by the warm fuzzy feeling that she gets when she looks at a picture of Jesus. The Bible enters this book nowhere, nor does repentence from sin. In the end, everybody gets healed and is happy and they hold their worship services by gazing up at the sky.

I responded by commenting that it was nicely written, etc, but had some serious second commandment issues and didn't present the gospel in anything that really resembled the gospel (Jesus dying on the cross for our sins). 

I think he was really stung, and I wondered in retrospect if I should have held my tongue for the sake of developing a better relationship with my brother, especially considering how strained family relationships have been (I haven't seen most of them for at least ten years).

What do you do in situations like this? When do you say something or not say something when someone is doing something that they believe is a 'witness'?


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## Bern (May 22, 2010)

This is a very real dilemma that I expect many people who come from an Arminian background to a reformed position have to face. As a calvinist its easy to get the reputation of being negative, critical and depressing. I think often its a case of holding your tongue to maintain civility between brothers. Most times people cannot seem to take on board what you say because it goes against what they've always believed, and they are afraid of opening their minds to it, in case they are convinced you are right. 

I've found that the only thing you can do is to make your position known initially, then only mention it again if you are prompted for your opinion or advice.


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## Idelette (May 22, 2010)

When I first became reformed, I used to "correct" people all the time, and it led to a lot of strife in some relationships. But, over the years, the Lord has taught me to pick my battles wisely. There are certain issues that are far more important than others and need to be addressed. Other things, are pointless and unprofitable to bring up. I often feel like reformed people can be so nit-picky about every little thing and are constantly argumentative and I think that is the kind of attitude that pushes people away. But, if you choose your battles wisely and lovingly show people what the Scriptures teach, I find most people to be very receptive. I still have many good friends that are unbelievers and arminians, and I've had plenty of opportunities to talk to them. But I truly believe, it has to do with my attitude when addressing them. Am I addressing something out of doctrinal pride, or am I genuinely concerned for them spiritually and desire to see them grow in the Lord? People are far less likely to take offense if it's the latter, and are much more open to listening. 

"Conduct yourselves with wisdom toward outsiders, making the most of the opportunity. Let your speech always be with grace, as though seasoned with salt, so that you will know how you should respond to each person." -Colossians 4:5-6


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## Andres (May 22, 2010)

Caroline, I agree with the above posters that wisdom plays a large part of it, but I also think that we have a responsiblity to share the truth we have been privileged to come into. I think to myself quite often that I certainly didn't deserve for God to show me the truths He has, but in His grace, He chose to. What good would it be for me to just sit around and enjoy the gospel by myself? The issue becomes not whether we should correct others, but HOW we correct them. It can be done in love or in pride/arrogance. Loving correction, instruction, and reproof are biblical. Arrogance and pride are sin.


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## kvanlaan (May 23, 2010)

The classic Calvinist: You meet someone on the bus, have an interesting conversation, touch on some current personal challenges, and when your stop comes, you go to the door, your new friend says "good luck!" and you miss your stop (and the next 17 stops) telling him how and why there's no such thing as 'luck'.


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## Caroline (May 23, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. Andres brings up an interesting point because part of the agony about responding is that I wish Christians had stood up to me more. I don't think it was loving for them to not tell me when I was wrong--I mean, really, really, badly wrong. It even made sort of a trap for me because I thought I must be wrong for doubting, because clearly, everyone else (every Christian that I knew, anyway) was on board with this.

At the same time, how much, where and when ...

It is easy to get impatient and just start lashing out, especially since I get a lot of hatemail. In fact, I received an email entitled 'You Strayed from the Truth!' about ten minutes ago that says:



> The Bible has warned us that people (such as yourself) would stray from the true faith and joine false churches that teach false doctrines. For example in 2 Timothy chapter 3 talks about the last days, and in verse 5, Timothy says that some people will have a form of godliness, but denying the power. This sounds a lot like you. I'm sorry to tell you but Apostolic Pentecostal does preach truth.



Well, goodbye, Calvinists. Some guy thinks 2 Tim 3:5 sounds like me. I'd better run out and find a Pentecostal Man of God to pray me through.  See, I mean it's so hard not to get sarcastic after a while. 

It is easy to wonder why they can dish it out but they can't take it, though, you know? But then, that's not the right spirit in which to talk to people who are troubled, and especially knowing that there, but for the grace of God, goes Caroline.

I guess my question here really is double:

(1) When is it actually loving to tell someone they are wrong?

and

(2) If you should not, how do you then protect yourself from constant attack? Silence can be construed as a sign of weakening, and cult people often feel free to dish out everything they have if someone never responds. But then, if you DO respond, you are 'judging' and 'hateful' and so on, and how can you be that way toward them when they were just trying to reach out to you in love? etc, etc. 

Perhaps I am angsting too much in this post, but this is a constant source of worry for me. Recently, a relative wanted to facebook friend me .... but it is a relative that is constantly bashing me for leaving the faith and tells me that my autistic son is demon-possessed. Well, how is that person going to have anything nice to say about my photos of my son or my 'You Don't Scare Me--I'm a Calvinist' button or my humorous collection of coffee mugs with random quotes from Exodus ... or really anything on my facebook page? Wouldn't I just be giving them ammunition? But then, if I don't, then my relative will be hurt and go crying to the whole family about how heartless I am now that I'm a Calvinist, and this is total proof of what sin does to you, and so on. _All they wanted to do was Facebook-friend me to see some pictures of my kids, and the evil Calvinist woman said no!_

My husband always feels as angst-ridden as I do about these things, and more often than not, we end up passing them along to my pastor who says, "What, are you kidding me? Just say no, Caroline. Stop letting them mess with your head." And then I feel silly for asking and wasting a pastor's time agonizing about a Facebook friend request. But yes, refusing the request did have some fall-out. The person in question no longer speaks to me. You can see how complicated this gets...


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## Bern (May 23, 2010)

I can feel your pain in this area Caroline. The loss of friends and loved ones because you wont back down on the truth is really depressing and frustrating. I hardly ever speak to anyone from my old church anymore because they all see me as "off the rails" because I left along with my wife. Even the people I do speak to constantly bring topics up that they know are likely to provoke a reaction from me. Then if I do react they tell me I've changed, and that I'm too serious and cynical. The best man at my wedding barely talks to me now, and if he does ever speak to me, its usually via facebook on some discussion where he can gang up with another mutual friend to argue with me about something. 

The fact is that on most topics they think they know what I believe, but in reality they don't, because they will not listen to me enough to grasp what I'm really saying to them. They all think Calvinism is wrong and won't ever open their minds to listen to it because they think it might send them off the rails too, deceiving them.


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## CNJ (May 23, 2010)

Oh Caroline, lots of family dynamics going here. Is it our mission to correct family members or just love them? I think it is to pray for them and love them and to not appear so self-righteous that we have to correct them. 

I also wrote a book and have wanted affirmation from family for that book about my honest spiritual pilgrimage. My family also have different theological perspectives. I only planted seeds for them if they read it carefully. At the beginning of one section in the book I actually wrote that people could skip too chapters if they wanted to and that was okay. 

But, you know, Caroline, thinking about a novel--it is just that--a novel. It is not theology even though you are reading theology into the book. Continue to affirm the brother who followed through and wrote the novel. Admire the fact that he wrote it. Keep the doors open, I say. Even write him an apology that you read too much theology into his book. Do all you can to maintain that relationship and build reconciliation and common ground into the family dynamics.

Try to build a relationship with that family apart from Facebook--phone calls are a really good way to do this. Facebook is often so silly anyway and not spiritually edifying. 

We have to get over the fact that family isn't going to always love us and understand us and appreciate our theology. Meanwhile we have a sort of family here. I love reading your posts and concerns.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (May 23, 2010)

Caroline said:


> When someone is doing something that is clearly in error, should you say something?



I think the Bible is very clear on this matter. As Luke 17:2-3 says,

"It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones. Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him."

To sum up: We should rebuke in fear our sinning brothers because they work as an stumbling-block to our faith. It's necessary to realize that in all circumstances we always whether bless or work as an stumbling-block to the faith of our beloved siblings in Christ or to the salvation of the unbelievers. But here the rebuking was pointed to the church members.

Consider 1 Cor 5:12-13, where it says,

"For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within? But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person."


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## JennyG (May 23, 2010)

> We have to get over the fact that family isn't going to always love us and understand us and appreciate our theology. Meanwhile we have a sort of family here. I love reading your posts and concerns.


that's so true - thank you, Carol. I can't always bring my closest concerns here - but it still does me so much good just to bathe in likemindedness.
Caroline, I often dwell on 1 Peter 3 v 1
"...if any obey not the word, they also may without thwe word be won by the conversation of their wives..." I think if that is true for a husband, it should a fortiori also be for other family members! Sometimes it most definitlely does not help to insist on every point - it just means endless disagreement. So just to love and be silent (once your position is known) may be the best course.


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## Andres (May 23, 2010)

I don't know. I still feel like most people here are saying that we should love our friends and family, but not correct them for fear it will hurt their feelings or something. I just don't agree. Yes, like many of you, my wife and I are the only Reformed in both our families. Do we catch flack for it? Well no, not really. I can honestly say that the reason I don't think we do is because my family can all see the gospel of Jesus Christ being lived out in my wife and my life. They see the peace, hope, and joy our faith brings us, so what would they be able to argue?
I have several friends that are Christians but they have bad theology. I care about them and I think they care about me, but we also both know where we stand, so we don't take offense to our disagreements. However, I do feel like I have a responsibility to let them know when they are treading into dangerous waters. For example, a good friend was talking about how much he loved John Eldredge books. I simply asked my friend if he was aware that John Eldredge espoused open-theism in his books and then explained what open-theism is and why it's not biblical. My friend simply replied that he didn't have a problem with it and he still enjoyed other aspects of the books. I didn't really have anything else to say after that because I made my view clear and I explained why I felt the way I did (scripturally). If my friend didn't care after that, then what I am going to do, so I haven't mentioned anything else. However, the fact that I spoke up and let my friend know how I felt, he is now aware and no matter what, when he reads the books, he will have to deal with those teachings that go against scripture. My friend didn't take any offense and he even joked about it a couple of weeks later. I shared a FB status saying I had acquired a bunch of great books from my pastor and my friend jokingly asked, "any John Eldredge in there?" I thought it was funny.

My point is, yes, Caroline, I think you should stand up for your beliefs. For example, the email you received, I would simply reply and tell them you appreciate their concern for you but ask for them to point out scripturally how your church teaches false doctrine. When they reply, you refute from scripture and use the opportunity to teach what and why you believe.


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## Caroline (May 27, 2010)

Thanks for the responses. I do think that in the past I have been too hard on my family at certain points. On the other hand, some would say I have been too easy on them, and I suppose both are true at various points. But I have given more and more thought to the wisdom of simply being patient. I suppose very few of us were converted overnight. Certainly many of my family are not as extreme as they used to be, and this is a step in the right direction. My family were so extreme at certain points that most UPCI people would think we were nuts. And some memories are very haunting, which makes it difficult sometimes to see them or talk to them (my family, I mean). 

Please pray for me, if you think of it. It is difficult to know how to handle many situations with grace.


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