# Publishing the Westminster Standards?



## NaphtaliPress (Mar 12, 2007)

At some point if I ever complete my critical text work I may want to produce an edition or editions of the Westminster Standards. I'm trolling here for what folks preferences might be in such a publication. Is there any format (size, binding, etc) edition of the standards you'd like to see that maybe isn't available? Likes and dislikes about current choices available?


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## Kevin (Mar 12, 2007)

Chris, what I would love to have would be an edition that showed me the various texts used by diferent reformed bodies. 

I have the FPP hardback that I use as my "everyday" WCF however it is not the ARP version so I often have to double check the wording in my ARP edition. I did the same thing when I was in the PCA.

What would be nice would be to have the 1647 text in one column with all of the varient readings next to it. That way in one place I could see how (or if) the PCA, OPC, ARP versions varied from each other and from the "original".

An edition like this would be valuable to elders, as well as to researchers. Aside from the obvious benifits it would (possibly) act as a restraning influence by pointing readers to innovations. Thus if all 3 major conservative denominations had the same (or similar) wording and you committee was working on revisions it may keep you from going to far "off the resevation".

Also potential market could be fairly large if you could get any groups to use you edition as their in-house version.


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## wsw201 (Mar 12, 2007)

I like the one done by Morton Smith where he had the Confession along with the corresponding larger and shorter catechism in side by side columns.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 12, 2007)

Thanks for the input. Would a coatpocket edition be attractive? Softcover, maybe leather? Would the WCF and Catechisms be sufficient or should all the traditional documents be included?


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## wsw201 (Mar 12, 2007)

Which version would you be publishing?


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 12, 2007)

Wayne,
I'm not sure what you mean; I would be publishing a new critical text, including noting all the official, and sometimes unofficial, American denominational variations, and longstanding errors. Not every edition would have to have all the critical notes, but the published text would reflect the research. For instance, in the forthcoming critical text of Larger Catechism 1 through 50, which will, DV, run in the 2007 issue of _The Confessional Presbyterian,_ there are over 450 notes on variations and errors (and that's just on the first 50 Q&As). That would be a bit much to include in a pocket edition, but the official changes and significant textual errors could easily be noted perhaps.


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## wsw201 (Mar 12, 2007)

What I meant was the American version or the original.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 12, 2007)

Ok. Kinda both then to answer your question. I've collated or am collating over 130 editions including the MSS and all of the important American families (the PCUSA probably has the largest string of denominationally published editions; I have them numbered a-k, and there are a few more than that even).


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## ADKing (Mar 12, 2007)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Thanks for the input. Would a coatpocket edition be attractive? Softcover, maybe leather? Would the WCF and Catechisms be sufficient or should all the traditional documents be included?



I would not be as interested in a leather edition if it meant the cost would be higher. It sounds like a very valuable endeavor but as one who already has and uses the FP version, if it were too expensive I probably couldn't justify getting another one. And of course, I welcome anything that helps me justify getting another book  

My personal preference is to see _*all*_ the "traditional" documents included. Too often Presbyterians lose sight of what the Westminster Assembly was really doing. They wanted a uniformity of religion in doctrine, worship, government and discipline. Having all the documents emphasizes this, in my personal opinion. If Presbyterians today would like to see that same goal achieved, we should return to one of the best expressions of that desire in all the documents produced by the Assembly.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 12, 2007)

I tend to agree on including the traditional documents (original Westminster and traditional Scottish). But, the beauty once the text is done, is there can me multiple editions. I don't think MSS survive on every one of these to do uniform work like I'm doing on the WCF and Catechisms; Chad Van Dixhoorn would know. I'm pretty sure I don't want to do MSS work on the Directory for Public Worship though (though it figures briefly in my 2005 CPJ article on Carruthers work); there are evidently two, and the copies of the one I have are really hard going, as opposed to the two of the WLC I transcribed for the Westminster Assembly Project. At some point, just because it has been the old standard, I would probably want to do something akin to the FP edition, with Scripture texts in full. The J&H is essentially, except for the Carruthers' text of the WCF, the Library edition published by Johnstone & Hunter in 1855 (a very nice find if you can get a copy). And the J&H follows the traditional form set in 1728 by Lumisden & Robertson (I fancy the 1736 L&R above all the 18th century editions except probably the Kincaid of 1773 which is one of the largest, but my example is in poor shape, though it did once belong to William Carruthers!). One of the nicest 20th century editions is the FP 1958 edition. It is on clay paper and has some heft to it, but is smaller than the ubiquitous green edition. There was one going for $1 on abebooks that I meant to pick up but someone beat me to it.



ADKing said:


> I would not be as interested in a leather edition if it meant the cost would be higher. It sounds like a very valuable endeavor but as one who already has and uses the FP version, if it were too expensive I probably couldn't justify getting another one. And of course, I welcome anything that helps me justify getting another book
> 
> My personal preference is to see _*all*_ the "traditional" documents included. Too often Presbyterians lose sight of what the Westminster Assembly was really doing. They wanted a uniformity of religion in doctrine, worship, government and discipline. Having all the documents emphasizes this, in my personal opinion. If Presbyterians today would like to see that same goal achieved, we should return to one of the best expressions of that desire in all the documents produced by the Assembly.


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

I would love to see a Leather Bound Edtion of all the Creeds & Confessions that are in the back of the _Reformation Study Bible._

Amazon.com: NIV Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible "Black Leather": Books: Richard L. Pratt Jr.

Is this something that you might consider doing Chris?

I have been looking for such a book, and have NOT been able to find it...


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 20, 2007)

caddy said:


> I would love to see a Leather Bound Edtion of all the Creeds & Confessions that are in the back of the _Reformation Study Bible._
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/Spirit-Reformation-Study-Bible-Leather/dp/0310923638
> 
> ...


It's an idea, but honestly, I'll be doing good to print the Westminster Standards in an acceptable form that folks will want.


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

Understood

I'm guessing the only way to do it, is extracting them from one of the NIV Bibles and sending it off to someone like this huh?

http://www.oldleather.com/catalog/item/838989/3582881.htm



NaphtaliPress said:


> It's an idea, but honestly, I'll be doing good to print the Westminster Standards in an acceptable form that folks will want.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 20, 2007)

caddy said:


> Understood
> 
> I'm guessing the only way to do it, is extracting them from one of the NIV Bibles and sending it off to someone like this huh?
> 
> http://www.oldleather.com/catalog/item/838989/3582881.htm


For a one off, I guess so. I'm not sure of the texts though; but if you are happy with them, that is what counts.


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

The Text Includes:

Doctrinal standards of the Reformed Faith: Heidelberg Catechism, Westminster Confession, Westminster Shorter Catechism, Belgic Confession, Canons of Dort, Westminster Larger Catechism



NaphtaliPress said:


> For a one off, I guess so. I'm not sure of the texts though; but if you are happy with them, that is what counts.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 20, 2007)

caddy said:


> The Text Includes:
> 
> Doctrinal standards of the Reformed Faith: Heidelberg Catechism, Westminster Confession, Westminster Shorter Catechism, Belgic Confession, Canons of Dort, Westminster Larger Catechism


That seems managable for a project but I'm commited to doing Westminster first. Do you (or anyone) know if there is an official text of the HC, CoD and BC? I know there are different English translations of I think the HC; any critical editions making note of the differences in the translations?


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

Good question. Not sure, but I'll see if this information is listed in the NIV SB when I get home.

I also have Beeke's Book: Reformed Confessions Harmonized. Not sure how Beeke or others choose their version of the text or even what version that might be. Maybe someone else will chime in here. 

http://www.monergismbooks.com/reformedconfess222x.html

 




NaphtaliPress said:


> That seems managable for a project but I'm commited to doing Westminster first. Do you (or anyone) know if there is an official text of the HC, CoD and BC? I know there are different English translations of I think the HC; any critical editions making note of the differences in the translations?


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 20, 2007)

I'm not sure of anything but the WLC. It appears from some errors in common that Beeke used the stand alone pb edition of the LC published by the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland. 



caddy said:


> Good question. Not sure, but I'll see if this information is listed in the NIV SB when I get home.
> 
> I also have Beeke's Book: Reformed Confessions Harmonized. Not sure how Beeke or others choose their version of the text or even what version that might be. Maybe someone else will chime in here.
> 
> http://www.monergismbooks.com/reformedconfess222x.html


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

According to Old-Leather:

_I can't reproduce the creeds. Perhaps you have a legal way of downloading them and printing them. Then you can send me the pages and we can bind them at the prices on the page called "Your Papers Bound as a Book."_
_Once this problem is solved, we can talk about multiple orders._

PM'ed other Info to you as well Chris
 


NaphtaliPress said:


> I'm not sure of anything but the WLC. It appears from some errors in common that Beeke used the stand alone pb edition of the LC published by the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 20, 2007)

Since the study bible is copyrighted you can only extract and rebind; you cannot redo the text without permission I would think.


caddy said:


> According to Old-Leather:
> 
> _I can't reproduce the creeds. Perhaps you have a legal way of downloading them and printing them. Then you can send me the pages and we can bind them at the prices on the page called "Your Papers Bound as a Book."_
> _Once this problem is solved, we can talk about multiple orders._
> ...


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

There is no indication in the NIV SB which text they used Chris. It wouldn't matter given your statement below. Would these OLD texts be copyrighted? I know the SB's is but I'm talking about the texts of the Creeds & Catechisms in General. You can obtain ALL of these online freely--the HC, BC, CoD, WCF, WLC and WSC. It really would not make much sense for me to seek getting this rebound separately. All these together does not equal the width of a nickle. I would think the print and text would need to be sized up considerably. 

 



NaphtaliPress said:


> Since the study bible is copyrighted you can only extract and rebind; you cannot redo the text without permission I would think.


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## toddpedlar (Mar 20, 2007)

Chris,

I wouldn't mind having a well-bound hardback edition of the full standards - the FPP version I have and frequently use is falling apart at the binding, and it's not the only copy I've seen with similar problems. I also have a small edition of the complete standards printed in 1878 by Johnstone, Hunter & Co - a beautiful one, but also in perfectly useable, but somewhat less-than-desired shape. 

Todd


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 20, 2007)

That is the Johnstone "C" version of 336 pages I suspect. The earlier are larger format. The 1958 FPP reprint of J&Hb is really pretty nice; printed on clay paper and has some heft to it. It is a smaller format than the more recent green edition they keep in print. I was going to pick up an extra for $1 on abebooks but someone beat me to it.


toddpedlar said:


> Chris,
> 
> I wouldn't mind having a well-bound hardback edition of the full standards - the FPP version I have and frequently use is falling apart at the binding, and it's not the only copy I've seen with similar problems. I also have a small edition of the complete standards printed in 1878 by Johnstone, Hunter & Co - a beautiful one, but also in perfectly useable, but somewhat less-than-desired shape.
> 
> Todd


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## toddpedlar (Mar 20, 2007)

NaphtaliPress said:


> That is the Johnstone "C" version of 336 pages I suspect. The earlier are larger format.



Yep - that's the one. I like the small size, though - it's so easily portable, but
like I said, it's seen better days.


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## bookslover (Mar 20, 2007)

toddpedlar said:


> I like the small size, though - it's so easily portable...



Speaking of which, the OPC has a hardback, pocket-sized edition of the Westminster Standards (all three). And it's not very expensive, either ($12).

OK, I just looked at my copy again. It will fit in a somewhat _large_ pocket (heh); it's 450 pages, but includes all proof texts (completely written out; not just the references) and a 42-page Scripture index covering all three documents.


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## brymaes (Mar 20, 2007)

I own a copy of the Standards that is 7"x5.5"x2.5" hardbound. It contains all of the documents. A critical edition in those dimensions would rock!


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## caddy (Mar 20, 2007)

Getting Closer  

Bind it in something like this:









theologae said:


> I own a copy of the Standards that is 7"x5.5"x2.5" hardbound. It contains all of the documents. A critical edition in those dimensions would rock!


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## caddy (Mar 30, 2007)

Any update on doing this, or what the interest level might be...even if it is just the WCF. 

?????


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 30, 2007)

Steve,
Someone could do something now, but I think there is a lot of critical work coming down the pike and I don't think someone should sink a lot into any super fine editions just yet.


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## caddy (Mar 30, 2007)

Thanks for updating us Chris...


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