# Synergistic Sanctification



## twogunfighter

I recently heard a sermon by a pastor that had previously taught in a very reformed way. However, this last sunday he put up a chart that showed justification and glorification as God alone, but showed sanctification as God and man working together. I asked him after the sermon which reformers thought that sanctification was synergistic and he said that most did. Then he stated that Charles Hodge was a proponent of synergistic sanctification. 

Is this correct? I have searched quite a bit today on this issue and can't find any major reformed guy that teaches that way. 

Chuck


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## twogunfighter

Paul

Can you refer me to the threads that this was discussed in?

Chuck


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## raderag

Do a search for Sproul and sanctification. He does a good job explaining it. While it is synergistic, our God given new heart causes it. And it isn't the Dispensational version that says our free will chooses one nature over the other.

[Edited on 5-10-2004 by raderag]


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## Preach

As far as I have always understood it, synergistic sanctification (progressive, not positional or final) is standard Reformed orthodoxy.


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## pastorway

As we discussed in the earlier threads, salvation is all by grace. God by His grace justifies, sanctifies, and will glorify us. We do not add anything to our salvation.

The result of our being sanctified by the Holy Spirit is that we do the good works prepared for us. 

Anyone who makes the claim that our works cause us to be sanctified is denying salvation by grace. We are being sanctified and as a result do good works.

Check out the earlier threads here:

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=3152

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2533 

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=2158 

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1420 

Phillip


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## Preach

Pastorway,
You are correct. It is God Who works in us to both will and to do. By this Divine initiative, we work out our salvation with fear and trembling. We need not fear the word synergism if it is properly understood.


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## pastorway

So then are you saying that justifuication is synergystic? I mean, we have to believe first, right?

Phillip


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## BlackCalvinist

I know R.C. Sproul says that sanctification (progressive) is synergistic.

Phil. 2:12-13 juxtaposes human responsibility for sanctification and Divine Sovreignty in sanctification in the same verses:

[i:e14122cd6a]Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.[/i:e14122cd6a]


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## pastorway

1. Salvation is by grace alone.
2. Sanctification is an element of our salvation.
3. Therefore, sanctification is by grace alone.

As the Holy Spirit is progressively sanctifying us, we become more and more aware of our own sinfulness and rely more and more on His power and grace as we strive to be obedient and pleasing to Him in our lives. He conforms us to the image of Christ. We do not conform ourselves to His image. He does the work - all of the work - necessary for us to be saved.

We do not sanctify ourselves. We are not sanctified (or furthered along in the process of sanctification) by our works. God sanctifies us and as a result we do the good works He has prepared for us. We cannot make ourselves holy. We cannot make ourselves justified. We cannot make ourselves sanctified. We cannot make ourselves glorified.

&quot;For by grace you have been saved through faith....&quot;

Grace Alone.

Teaching sancitifcation by works (or synergism) denies salvation by grace alone.

You can reference the threads cited earlier to see the Scriptures that support this position. 

And I don't care which theologian disagrees. Anyone who teaches that we sanctify ourselves is teaching salvation by works. They are teaching that the work of Christ is insufficient and that we must add to it to continue growing in grace. Synergistic sanctification is identical to the Roman view of the doctrine of justification!! They teach that our works are necessary to salvation as causes instead of results. We do not cause our salvation in any way, and confusing the results of salvation with the causes for it turns grace upside down.

Phillip


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## C. Matthew McMahon

Which sense do you both mean?

God's ordination? (The Compound Sense?)

Man's responsibility to follow the perceptive will? (The Divided sense?)

Until that is clear, as Turretin rightly points out, you will go round and round.

1 Thessalonians 4:3 For [b:e297f099eb]this is the will of God[/b:e297f099eb], even your [b:e297f099eb]sanctification[/b:e297f099eb], that [b:e297f099eb]ye[/b:e297f099eb] should abstain from fornication:

God's will, my will?

Yoda says, &quot;Confusing it is without understanding the senses.&quot;


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## Dan....

Are we talking the cause, the means, the utilization of the means, or the result of sanctification? These are very important distinctions.....



To quote a couple of theologians:

From Louis Berkhof, Systematic Theology:
[quote:4bb51d72da]
D. The Nature of Sanctification
1. [b:4bb51d72da]It is a supernatural work of God.[/b:4bb51d72da] Some have the mistaken notion that sanctification consists merely in the drawing out of new life, implanted in the soul by regeneration, in a persuasive way by presenting motives to the will. But this is not true. It consists fundamentally and primarily in a Divine operation in the soul, whereby the holy disposition born in regeneration is strengthened and its holy exercises are increased. It is essentially a work of God, though in so far as He employs means, man can and is exected to co-operated by the proper use of the means. Scripture clearly exibits the supernatural character of sanctification in several ways. It describes it as a work of God, 1 Thes 5:23; Heb 13:20,21, as a fruit of the union of life with Jesus Christ, Jn 15:4; Gal 2:20; 4:19, as a work that is wrought in man from within and which for that very reason cannot be a work of man, Eph 3:16; Col 1:11, and speaks of its manifestation in Christian virtues as the work of the Spirit, Gal 5:22.

4. [b:4bb51d72da]It is a work of God in which believers co-operate[/b:4bb51d72da]. When it is said that man takes part in the work of sanctification, this does not mean that man is an independent agent in the work, so as to make it partly the work of God and partly the work of man; but merely, that God effects the work in part through the instrumentality of man as a rational being, by requiring of him prayful and intellegent co-operation with the Spirit.
[/quote:4bb51d72da]



Form Charles Hodge's Systematic Theology:

[quote:4bb51d72da]
It is a Supernatural Work....

That sanctification is a supernatural work in the sense above stated is proved, -- 

1. From the fact that it is constantly referred to God as its author. It is referred to God absolutely, or to the Father, as in I Thessalonians v. 23, &quot;The very God of peace sanctify you wholly.&quot; Hebrews xiii. 20, 21, &quot;The God of peace that brought again from the dead our Lord Jesus . . . . make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is well pleasing in his sight.&quot; It is also referred to the Son, as in Titus ii. 14, He &quot;gave himself for us, that he might . . . . purify unto himself a peculiar people zealous of good works.&quot; Ephesians v. 25, He &quot;loved the church and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.&quot; Predominantly sanctification is referred to the Holy Spirit, as his peculiar work in the economy of redemption. Hence He is called the Spirit of all grace; the Spirit of joy, of peace, of love, of faith, and of adoption. All Christian graces are set forth as fruits of the Spirit. We are said to be born of the Spirit, and by Him to he enlightened, taught, led, and cleansed. We are said to be in the Spirit, to live, to walk, and to rejoice in the Spirit. The Spirit dwells in the people of God, and is the abiding source of all the actings of that spiritual life which He implants in the soul. The Bible teaches that the Son and Spirit are in the Holy Trinity subcrdinate to the Father, as to their mode of subsistence and operation, although the same in substance, and equal in power and glory. Hence it is that the same work is often attributed to the Father, to the Son, and to the Spirit; and as the Father and Son operate through the Spirit, the effects due to the agency of God are referred specially to the Holy Ghost. 

This reference of sanctification to God proves it to be a supernatural work, because the insufficiency of second causes to produce the effect is declared to be the ground of this reference. It is because men cannot cleanse or heal themselves, that they are declared to be cleansed and healed by God. It is because rites, ceremonies, sacraments, truth, and moral suasion, cannot bring the soul back to God, that it is said to be transformed, by the renewing of the mind, through the power of the Spirit, into the image of God. We are, therefore, declared to be God's work. manship, created unto good works. And it is not we that live, but Christ that liveth in us. 



2. This reference of sanctification to God as its author, the more decisively proves the supernatural character of the work, because the reference is not merely general, as when the wind and rain, and the production of vegetable and animal life, are referred to his universal providential agency. The reference is special. The effect is one which the Scriptures recognize as not within the sphere of second causes, and therefore ascribe to God. They recognize the free agency of man; they acknowledge and treat him as a moral and rational being; they admit the adaptation of of truth to convince the understanding, and of the motives presented to determine the will and to control the affections, and nevertheless they teach that these secondary causes and influences be utterly ineffectual to the conversion and sanctification of the soul, without the demonstration of the Spirit. The sacred writers, therefore, constantly pray for this divine influence, &quot;extrinsecus accidens,&quot; to attend the means of grace and to render them effectual, as well for sanctification as for regeneration and conversion. Every such prayer, every thanksgiving for grace imparted, every recognition of the Christian virtues as fruits of the Spirit, and gifts of God, are so many recognitions of the great truth that the restoration of man to the image of God is not a work of nature, either originated or carried on by the efficiency of second causes, but is truly and properly supernatural, as due to the immediate power of the Spirit producing effects for which second causes are inadequate. 



3. We accordingly find the Apostle and the sacred writers generally, referring not only regeneration, the communication of spiritual life to those spiritually dead, but the continuance of that life in its activity and growth, not merely to the power of God, but to his almighty power. Paul prays in Ephesians i. 19, that his readers might know &quot;what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe according to the working of his mighty power, which he wrought in Christ when he raised him from the dead.&quot; The same almighty power which was exhibited in the resurrection of Christ, is exercised in the spiritual resurrection of the believer. And as the power which raised Christ from the dead was exercised in his ascension and glorification; so also the same power, according to the Apostle, which is exerted in the spiritual resurrection of the believer, is exercised in carrying on his sanctification, which is inward and real glorification. Accordingly, in the same Epistle (iii. 7), he ascribes all the grace whereby he was fitted for the apostleship, &quot;to the effectual working of his power.&quot; And further on (ver. 20), to encourage the people of God to pray for spiritual blessings, he reminds them of his omnipotence whereby He was &quot;able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us.&quot; It is almighty power, therefore, and not the impotence of secondary influences, which works in the believer and carries on the work of his salvation. 
[/quote:4bb51d72da]

[Edited on 5-11-2004 by Dan....]


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## kceaster

Synergism is not the proper term we should use simply because of the fact that it was properly coined when speaking of Pelagius, and later, Arminius, in their view of salvation. Look in a theological dictionary or on dictionary.com and you will see that the original doctrines had to do with salvation and not particularly with sanctification.

I think it would be best to come up with another term. The quotes we have provided, unless I am mistaken, did not use the term synergism. They would not have since they knew what it meant.

In the sense that God works with us, which is what synergism would connote, I don't think that is entirely accurate and does not explain our relationship to Him. The Holy Spirit gets far too little credit when we start to speak in terms of working together.

Does the clay work with the potter? I think the potter works with the clay only in the sense that he [i:d9d78a37e1]works on or in the medium of[/i:d9d78a37e1] the clay. I agree that we do a bit of tail chasing with this subject, but I'm willing to say I don't know how it works. What I do know is that God accomplishes my sanctification through the faith He wrote and will complete in me. It is all God's work and none of mine. It is so tainted by myself that it scarce can make the creator of the universe pleased at all except for His involvement.

We agree again, Pastor Way.

But, let's use a different term. Synergism should be relegated to the heresy it is.

In Christ,

KC

[Edited on 5-11-2004 by kceaster]


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## kceaster

*Paul...*

I was merely pointing out that the theological use of synergism or synergistic involves that heresy. If you want to recoin it that is fine, but don't be surprized when people question your soteriology. That is part of the baggage that comes with that word.

I really don't know why anyone would have to go beyond the definition of the WSC. Sanctification is a work of God's Spirit (as opposed to an act), whereby we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and are made more and more to die unto sin and live unto righteousness. Do we have to cooperate? In some cases, I think we come kicking and screaming. Is the work of this transformation done by us? It can't because it is an inward work of the heart. If our will conforms at all to the express image of His Son, then it does so, not by our wanting to, but by the Holy Spirit's operation.

If we add anything to this, as Pastor Way has rightly noted, we add to our salvation and it is not grace.

I would direct you to the chapters on sanctification and good works in the Confession. 

[quote:64504114e7]Chapter XIII
Of Sanctification

I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man; yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part; whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail; yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome; and so, the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.

Chapter XVI
Of Good Works

I. Good works are only such as God has commanded in His holy Word, and not such as, without the warrant thereof, are devised by men, out of blind zeal, or upon any pretence of good intention. 

II. These good works, done in obedience to God's commandments, are the fruits and evidences of a true and lively faith: and by them believers manifest their thankfulness, strengthen their assurance, edify their brethren, adorn the profession of the Gospel, stop the mouths of the adversaries, and glorify God, whose workmanship they are, created in Christ Jesus thereunto, that, having their fruit unto holiness, they may have the end, eternal life.

III. Their ability to do good works is not at all of themselves, but wholly from the Spirit of Christ. And that they may be enabled thereunto, beside the graces they have already received, there is required an actual influence of the same Holy Spirit, to work in them to will, and to do, of His good pleasure: yet are they not hereupon to grow negligent, as if they were not bound to perform any duty unless upon a special motion of the Spirit; but they ought to be diligent in stirring up the grace of God that is in them.

IV. They who, in their obedience, attain to the greatest height which is possibly in this life, are so far from being able to supererogate, and to do more than God requires, as that they fall short of much which in duty they are bound to do.

V. We cannot by our best works merit pardon of sin, or eternal life at the hand of God, by reason of the great disproportion that is between them and the glory to come; and the infinite distance that is between us and God, whom, by them, we can neither profit, nor satisfy for the debt of our former sins, but when we have done all we can, we have done but our duty, and are unprofitable servants: and because, as they are good, they proceed from His Spirit, and as they are wrought by us, they are defiled, and mixed with so much weakness and imperfection, that they cannot endure the severity of God's judgment.

VI. Notwithstanding, the persons of believers being accepted through Christ, their good works also are accepted in Him; not as though they were in this life wholly unblamable and unreproveable in God's sight; but that He, looking upon them in His Son, is pleased to accept and reward that which is sincere, although accompanied with many weaknesses and imperfections.

VII. Works done by unregenerate men, although for the matter of them they may be things which God commands; and of good use both to themselves and others: yet, because they proceed not from an heart purified by faith; nor are done in a right manner, according to the Word; nor to a right end, the glory of God, they are therefore sinful and cannot please God, or make a man meet to receive grace from God: and yet, their neglect of them is more sinful and displeasing unto God.[/quote:64504114e7]

If we begin to think that we contribute to this, I think the endpoint becomes a rejection of Christ's righteousness and active obedience, which many in our age have done. This is an important distinction.

If some want to use this language as license to sin and be slothful, because the Spirit hasn't moved them or something of that rot, we can point them back to the Scriptures to show them that obedience and good works are a duty before God, but do not contain any merit for us, nor are our works before Him contributive in any way to our sanctification. Only the work done by the Spirit contributes.

We are the most wretched of vessels before God. It is only His work, and none of our own, that makes us clean before Him. It is only His sanctification that sets us apart and makes us holy. There is no way we can do this ourselves even if we call it cooperation. A heart patient may be then said to cooperate in his own open heart surgery. Would we say this? I don't think so.

In Christ,

KC


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## kceaster

*Paul...*

I understand where you're coming from, but I say, let's be cautious. Synergism is a dangerous word. You may understand exactly what you're saying. In most of your points, I agree with you.

But we need to make this clear, because sanctification touches the fabric of salvation.

If the work comes from us, that means it originates from our own selves, and not the Holy Spirit's work, then it is not a part of our sanctification. The Holy Spirit does renew our wills, but that does not mean, that where our will has been renewed, that we now work APART from the Holy Spirit. The works God has called us to do are not ours to do on our own time, in our own energy. The work we do comes first by the Holy Spirit changing our &quot;want to&quot; and then empowering us to do that which He has called us to. I can do all things through Christ (that is, His Spirit) who strengthens me. We can look at this as none other than His power at work within us. The moment we even hint that it can come by our own power within, is the moment that we have damaged salvation as being all of God. 

I don't want to advocate &quot;autopilot&quot; Christianity. I don't think you do either. So, we must be clear that whatever we do, it is not our work, but the Holy Spirit's. To me, that is not synergistic anymore than the glass cooperates with the water to quench my thirst. The water and the glass are not synergistic even though they may use each other to accomplish the ends.

I know we are speaking the same language but I want you to consider how you phrase it. Depending upon who hears it, could mean the difference between the ditch of legalism and antinomianism. We have to trod the middle here.

This doctrine is hard enough to explain without muddying the waters as to what percentage of the work is actually me and what percent is actually the Holy Spirit. In my estimation, and I don't think I am alone, it is 100% the Holy Spirit, even though I am responsible for doing or not doing it. That is not synergism, it is monergism.

Pick any analogy. Does the shovel perform the work? Or, does the man using the shovel perform the work? The shovel can't do a thing without the man, but the man could still dig a hole without the use of a shovel.

I apologize if I am speaking past you brother, but I think we ought to maintain that the Holy Energy to do anything resides only with God. It is never ours. While we may be the conduit, we are still but a vessel. The Holy Spirit must work in order for any sanctification to happen. This is not a one time work, as in, He renews us in one part of our lives and then never has to energize that part to good works any more. The constant influx of His power must be provided for anything to happen in our sanctification. This is why He must indwell. The cup must be made pure that pours the water. It is not a one time purification, but a constant purification. That is not synergism.

Again, I think we're speaking past each other. But please consider your hearers when you use terms in Theology that have had and continue to have other meanings. It has gotten some in our day in much trouble. I would not hope that for any of us here.

In Christ,

KC


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## twogunfighter

I appreciate all of your discussion on this issue. I didn't realize that I would cause such controversy. After the last discussion that I was involved in on this subject (a year ago) I thought the matter pretty much decided. 

I read Charles Hodge's systematic theology chapter on sanctification last night and confirmed what I thought to be correct: sanctification is supernatural and monergistic. 

I do see where you are coming from Paul. I also aggree with KC that none of the Reformed giants (Sproul and Packer while good are hardly giants) seem to have used the term &quot;synergy&quot; as it was recognized as meaning a certain thing that they wanted to stay away from. One would think that in our current version of quasi-Arminian Protestantism it would be better not to use the term either. 

Chuck


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## Dan....

KC, Excellent posts.

Paul, 

First of all I totally agree with the quote from Berkhof and Charles Hodge that I posted. Sanctification is the work of God in us. In this way it is monergistic.

God works by and through means. It is through the means of Grace that God sanctifies us (the Word: read, heard, and preached; the ordinances; prayer; etc..). It is our obligation to attend unto these means, to be admonished, and to obey. Yet these means do not, in themselves sanctify us. It is the Holy Spirit working through these means who sanctifies us. We cannot take credit for it. All the credit must go to Him who works in us (for it is God who worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure -Phil 1:6).

No one here is promoting the antinomian error that we do not need to do anything. Good works do have a necessary place (and thereby we do co-operate with the Spirit), but they are not that which sanctified us.

As said Berkhof, [i:b863f8f272]&quot;When it is said that man takes part in the work of sanctification, this does not mean that man is an independent agent in the work, so as to make it partly the work of God and partly the work of man; but merely, that God effects the work in part through the instrumentality of man as a rational being, by requiring of him prayful and intellegent co-operation with the Spirit.&quot;[/i:b863f8f272]

[Edited on 5-11-2004 by Dan....]


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## Saiph

Synergism: syn + ergon (To work together/with)


Gen 50:20 
But as for you, you thought evil against me, but God meant it for good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save a great many people alive. 


Isa 1:18 
Come now, and let [b:26564f3030]us reason together[/b:26564f3030], says Jehovah; though your sins are as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red like crimson, they shall be like wool. 


All covenants are relationships with sanctions.

We &quot;keep&quot; the covenant. Covenant keeping is promise believing existentially actualized by the human will through the divine enabling of the Holy Spirit.

Christ said to the lame man, &quot;Rise up and WALK&quot;.


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## kceaster

*Paul...*

[quote:2e6acfbf60][i:2e6acfbf60]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:2e6acfbf60]
KC,

I hear you.

I would just ask this, to clear it up. Do agree with these statements

G.I Williamson

Who is involved in sanctification? 

[b:2e6acfbf60]Both man and God are involved in sanctification[/b:2e6acfbf60]. As Answer 35 says, sanctification is a work of God's free grace, but we are the ones turning away from sin and unto God. Sanctification is a change in man, though it is a work of God.

A.A. Hodge

4. The evangelical doctrine of sanctification common to the Lutheran and Reformed Churches includes the following points: (1) The soul after regeneration continues dependent upon the constant gracious operations of the Holy Spirit, but is, through grace, able to [b:2e6acfbf60]co-operate [/b:2e6acfbf60] with them

Loraine Boettner

many people confuse regeneration and sanctification. Regeneration is exclusively God's work, and it is an act of His free grace in which He implants a new principle of spiritual life in the soul. It is performed by supernatural power and is complete in an instant. On the other hand, sanctification is a process through which the remains of sin in the outward life are gradually removed . . . [b:2e6acfbf60]It is a joint work of God and man[/b:2e6acfbf60]&quot;

J.I. Packer

&quot;Regeneration was a momentary monergistic act of quickening the spiritually dead. As such, it was God's work alone. Sanctification, however, is in one sense synergistic -- it is an ongoing [b:2e6acfbf60]cooperative process [/b:2e6acfbf60] in which regenerate persons, alive to God and freed from sin's dominion (Rom. 6:11, 14-18), 

W.G.T Shedd

&quot;The believer [b:2e6acfbf60]cooperates[/b:2e6acfbf60] with God the Spirit in the use of the means of sanctification. Sanctification is [b:2e6acfbf60]both[/b:2e6acfbf60] a grace and a [b:2e6acfbf60]duty[/b:2e6acfbf60]..... Regeneration, being a sole work of God [b:2e6acfbf60]is not[/b:2e6acfbf60] a duty. It is nowhere enjoined upon man to regenerate himself.&quot;

Louis Berkof

&quot;It is essentially a work of god, though in so far as he employes means, man can and is expected to, [b:2e6acfbf60]co-operate[/b:2e6acfbf60]&quot;

Here is what Charles Hodge says, &quot;But men work out their own salvation, while God works in them to will and to want according to his good pleasure. In the work of regeneration the soul is passive. it cannot [b:2e6acfbf60]cooperate[/b:2e6acfbf60] in the communication of spiritual life.&quot; 


KC, do you agree with the above (I have loads more as well which say the same thing)? If you say that you do agree then I would like to know two things. (1) Can you (or are there any reformed theologians who) use that languge with respects to justification? (2) Why can't that type of language be used of justification?

-Paul





[Edited on 5-11-2004 by Paul manata] [/quote:2e6acfbf60]

I agree with them because I understand what they are saying. They are not attributing anything to a &quot;pull-yourself-up-by-the-bootstraps&quot; theology. But as I said, the only objection I have and the place we all need to be careful is when we mix terms. Sanctification is monergistic in the means. In the end, it is mixed with our feeble actions, but its effectiveness is solely based upon God.

You're okay. I just wanted you to be aware of the terms.

In Christ,

KC


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## fredtgreco

First of all, there is no such thing as a covenant without conditions. Conditions are defined covenantally as responsibilities. Imagine a marriage in which the husband had no responsibilities or obligations to his wife. We would not call that a marriage.

Second, just because something is forensic and legal does not mean that it is not a relationship (i.e. do not set a relationship against the contract notion). A covenant is a special kind of relationship.

Third, man does not bargain with God, he does not choose any of the terms of the covenant.

We see that God fulfills the conditions of the covenant (and hence also sanctification). He fulfils not only His own, but His people's too because of their sinfulness.

Therefore on the side of the fulfillment of the conditions, the covenant (and sanctification) is monergistic -- it is God's POWER that fulfills them.

On the side of the requirements of the covenant, the covenant is synergistic, but that synergism is asymetrical.

For example: [b:376d16bcfb]faith[/b:376d16bcfb]. We are required to believe, but God provides the faith to us.

In sanctification, we are required to obey the imperatives of God (note that there are more imperatives in the NT than in the OT), but it is God who sovereignly enables us to obey.


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## Dan....

Paul,

I am looking back over my post, and I do not find where I said that you hold that &quot;man is independent&quot;.

I did quote Berkhof (he said that &quot;this does not mean that man is an independent agent in the work&quot, but my primary motive in quoting him is more focused on the phrase, &quot;[i:7e25eab261]so as to make it partly the work of God and partly the work of man[/i:7e25eab261]&quot;. -&quot;Partly the work of God and partly the work of man&quot; is what synergism is, is it not? Or am I misunderstanding synergism?

Here is a pertainent question:

Do you agree with Berhof when he said, 

[quote:7e25eab261]
&quot;When it is said that man takes part in the work of sanctification, this does not mean that man is an independent agent in the work, so as to make it partly the work of God and partly the work of man; but merely, that God effects the work in part through the instrumentality of man as a rational being, by requiring of him prayful and intellegent co-operation with the Spirit.&quot; 
[/quote:7e25eab261]

?

If you agree, then we are on the same page.

[Edited on 5-11-2004 by Dan....]


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## Dan....

Paul,

I think where we may differ is how we view Synergism.

I have always view synergism as the combination of the works of two separate agents which together accomplish a specific end. Hence: [b:509212008d](work of X) + (work of Y) yields -&gt; Z.[/b:509212008d] Applied to sanctification: The work of God + the Work of man yeilds sanctification. _If that is what were meant by synergism in sanctification, then this is error (and I assume now that you would agree).

However, as I have gone again through all of your posts here, it seems that you are not using it in the same way that I was reading it (Hence, a misunderstanding on my part).

It seems that what you mean is only that we co-operate with the Spirit as He (alone) performs the work of sanctification within us. Hence, it is only &quot;synergistic&quot; in that we co-operate with Him as He performs His work. Our work then is not a part of that which sanctifies, but is present with our sanctification.

I hope I have now understood you, and apologize for not properly understanding before.

Also, we cannot &quot;co-operate&quot; with God as He regenerates us, nor as He justifies us, as these are one time acts of God to creatures who are dead in trespasses and sins. Sanctification is an ongoing process in the lives of those who have already been regenerated and justified and hence we can (being enabled to perform that which is pleasing to God) co-operate with His work in us.


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## kceaster

*Paul...*

[quote:1f66ed8f4e]KC,

All I want to point out is that I have never said it is a &quot;pull yourself up by your bootstraps&quot; thing. Can you quote how I imply that? Also, why is my question about the words &quot;co-operate&quot; and &quot;BOTH God and man&quot; not answered. Why is it that NO reformed theologian uses those words with respect to justification or regeneration??? Why? because that is synergism.[/quote:1f66ed8f4e]

No, I don't think you implied it. But I was not saying you implied it. I did not even imply that you implied it. But for some, synergism is implying it. That's all I am saying. It is okay if you understand it. But what I'm telling you is that there are many who do not understand it. Using synergism will make matters worse.

I have answered your cooperation question. I am sorry if it was not clear. A heart patient would not be considered as cooperating with the physician while lying on the table. A shovel would not be considered cooperating with a man digging a hole. The work still gets done, but my question to you is who does it? God does. You have answered that time and time again. But just because God uses means does not mean that everything used is in a synergistic relationship with Him. 

This does no damage to the Reformed position, but states it exactly the way it has been stated. I object to the term synergism. The other fellows are not using synergism either. They do so for a reason. They avoided it because of the original use of the term.

I really cannot add anything further to this discussion. Paul, I am not questioning your belief. I am questioning your use of a term. That is all I am saying. You are not a heretic for using the term. You are simply mistaken that it is harmless to use. Explain sanctification like the other men you quoted without using the term synergism, and we will completely agree.

In Christ,

KC


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## pastorway

I agree with KC and Fred.

Sanctification is to be defined as monergistic, just as is justification, but that does not mean we do not participate. All that we need to be sanctified we are given by God. 

I am arguing specifically against those who say that it is our cooperation, our participation, our works, our obedience, etc that are the [i:2b6da6092f]means[/i:2b6da6092f] of our being sanctified. That is heresy. And that is making inroads into the reformed camp because people misunderstand what many of the theologians quoted have said, or they have misapplied what they have said, and the result is a sanctification that is the result of my working with God to accomplish my own salvation. We are saved by grace, not of works, any works at all, lest we have case to boast.

We are being sanctified and as a result we do good works, we obey, we grow in grace, we cooperate. These things are the [i:2b6da6092f]results[/i:2b6da6092f] of the means having been applied by God.

Sanctification, as every single step in the process of our salvation, is all of grace.

Phillip


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## pastorway

Fred wrote:
[quote:a1a03f215c]
Therefore on the side of the fulfillment of the conditions, the covenant ([u:a1a03f215c]and sanctification[/u:a1a03f215c]) is [b:a1a03f215c]monergistic[/b:a1a03f215c] -- it is God's POWER that fulfills them. [/quote:a1a03f215c]

My position is not an over-reaction to the A4 or anyone else. It is a proclamation of what the Bible teaches about sanctification. It is monergistic. Otherwise you are teaching salvation by our own works. And that is heresy.

Your position, Paul, is a misunderstanding of most of the theologians you quote. 


Forget the theologians for a moment and lets consider what the Bible says:

[quote:a1a03f215c]1. We contribute nothing to our salvation. Our salvation is all of grace accomplished by the will and power of God. 

Ephesians 2 
1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins, 2in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience, 3among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others. 4But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them. 

John 17 
17Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 

2. Sanctification is part of our salvation, thus we contribute nothing to our own sanctification. We do not work our way to being like Christ. We do not add anything to God's sanctifying us. 

1 Thess 5 
23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. 24He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it. 

Hebrews 13 
12Therefore Jesus also, that He might sanctify the people with His own blood, suffered outside the gate. 

2 Thess 2 
13 But we are bound to give thanks to God always for you, brethren beloved by the Lord, because God from the beginning chose you for salvation through sanctification by the Spirit and belief in the truth, 14to which He called you by our gospel, for the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 

Acts 26 
17I will deliver you from the Jewish people, as well as from the Gentiles, to whom I now send you, 18to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.' 

Romans 15 
15Nevertheless, brethren, I have written more boldly to you on some points, as reminding you, because of the grace given to me by God, 16that I might be a minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering of the Gentiles might be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17Therefore I have reason to glory in Christ Jesus in the things which pertain to God. 

Hebrews 2 
10 For it was fitting for Him, for whom are all things and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons to glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren... 

Hebrews 10 
9then He said, &quot;Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.&quot; He takes away the first that He may establish the second. 10By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. 

14For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified. 

Jude 
1 Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ: 2Mercy, peace, and love be multiplied to you. 

3. Therefore, even though we are required to be obedient out of love for God, that obedience does not sanctify us, it does not keep us in any covenant, it does not add to grace. Salvation, including sanctification, is all of grace and all of God. 

HE conforms us to the image of His Son! 

Romans 8 
29For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. 

HE DOES IT ALL. HE ALONE GETS ALL THE GLORY.[/quote:a1a03f215c]

We have argued this before with the same results, Paul - you continue disagree with orthodoxy, or at least present a confused idea of what the means of sanctification are. 

And we are seeing the same quotes over and over again as in the other threads, so this one is done unless we cover new ground from here on out.

Phillip


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## fredtgreco

Now, Now. Let's all just take a deep breath for a moment. This is a very difficult issue, and requires careful distinctions. It is also an excellent example of why Biblical theologians who denigrate systematics have serious problems.

Here is what I am going to do:

I started typing a post, but lost it. I really need to be studying for my Pauline Epistles exam tomorrow, and drafting my financing proposal for my company.

I do not want this to get short shrift. So I am going to close the thread, temporarily, until tomorrow (maybe morning). Then I will post a series of statements that I think both Paul and Phillip will agree with, because I think that both of them are orthodox, zealous for the truth, and desirous of God's glory.

This is your pastorally mandated break. I'll reopen the thread tomorrow with my questions, and we can then post away. OK? Capice? (for you Paul)


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## fredtgreco

*Let's see if we agree*

Ok. I've finally freed myself up enough to tackle this. Let me see if I can post some simple sentences, and let's see if both Paul and Phillip agree:




[*:14cb4025dd]There are two aspects to sanctification
[*:14cb4025dd]One is definitive sanctification (&quot;And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God&quot; 1 Cor. 6:11)
[*:14cb4025dd]One is progressive.
[*:14cb4025dd]Progressive sanctfication includes: (a) mortification (Rom. 8:13) ; (b) renewal (2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 4:23; Rom. 12:2) ; and (c) growth.
[*:14cb4025dd]God is the author of sanctification
[*:14cb4025dd]Man is the sphere where sanctification takes place
[*:14cb4025dd]Growth is the responsibility of he believer
[*:14cb4025dd]The believer's growth is wholly dependent on grace
[*:14cb4025dd]The relationship of responsibility to grace is aptly summed up by Augustine's statement that so infuriated Pelagius, &quot;Command what you will, and give what you command.&quot;
[*:14cb4025dd]Sanctification must be cultivated by the believer
[*:14cb4025dd]Sanctification can only be cultivated by the Spirit
[*:14cb4025dd]The supply of strength for sanctification comes from Christ (cf. WCF 13.3)
[*:14cb4025dd]The Christian's ability to do good works comes from Christ (cf. WCF 16.3)
[*:14cb4025dd]Good works are not a means of sanctification
[*:14cb4025dd]Good works are a fruit and evidence of faith, strengthening assurance and giving glory to God (cf. WCF 16.2)
[*:14cb4025dd]The means that the Holy Spirit uses to bring about sanctification are the means of grace, namely the Word, prayer and the sacraments
[*:14cb4025dd]The Christian must use diligence in sanctification, but that diligence is the mean that the Spirit uses to bring about sanctification (cf. WCF 16.3)
[/list:14cb4025dd]

Now let's see where we agree.


 (humming Psalm 133)


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## raderag

[quote:dc8d4ea197][i:dc8d4ea197]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:dc8d4ea197]
[My justification for this is that *both* God and man are involved in sanctification where as this is not true of justification and regeneration. As Fred said, it is the &quot;responsibility&quot; of the believer. I would also use Shedd's term, &quot;duty.&quot; [/quote:dc8d4ea197]

Justification also involves the responsibility of man to believe. Faith is a gift produced by regeneration, but so is repentance. Therefore, by your standard, justification would be synergistic. Unless you believe we are justified without faith (I know you do't). Sanctification is only synergistic if it is possible to choose good and possible to choose evil. With justification, we don't choose to believe, and it is not possible that a regenerate will not believe. I suppose in sanctification, especially in a micro sense, we it is possible that a regenerate will not walk in the spirit in some sense. However, it is true it is also inevitable that Christians will eventually be sanctified more and more. All of this is due to grace. I think it can be said that obedience to some degree is synergistic, but sanctification as a whole is monergistic and determined only by Grace. Otherwise, we would have to leave open the possibility that sanctification is not inevitable. 

Does this make sense?


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## pastorway

As Paul stated, he and I have been humbly reconciled to one another! 

Now for what Fred posted:

[quote:03ea1650a5][i:03ea1650a5]Originally posted by fredtgreco[/i:03ea1650a5]
Ok. I've finally freed myself up enough to tackle this. Let me see if I can post some simple sentences, and let's see if both Paul and Phillip agree:




[*:03ea1650a5]There are two aspects to sanctification
[*:03ea1650a5]One is definitive sanctification (&quot;And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God&quot; 1 Cor. 6:11)
[*:03ea1650a5]One is progressive.
[*:03ea1650a5]Progressive sanctfication includes: (a) mortification (Rom. 8:13) ; (b) renewal (2 Cor. 4:16; Eph. 4:23; Rom. 12:2) ; and (c) growth.
[*:03ea1650a5]God is the author of sanctification
[*:03ea1650a5]Man is the sphere where sanctification takes place
[*:03ea1650a5]Growth is the responsibility of he believer
[*:03ea1650a5]The believer's growth is wholly dependent on grace
[*:03ea1650a5]The relationship of responsibility to grace is aptly summed up by Augustine's statement that so infuriated Pelagius, &quot;Command what you will, and give what you command.&quot;
[*:03ea1650a5]Sanctification must be cultivated by the believer
[*:03ea1650a5]Sanctification can only be cultivated by the Spirit
[*:03ea1650a5]The supply of strength for sanctification comes from Christ (cf. WCF 13.3)
[*:03ea1650a5]The Christian's ability to do good works comes from Christ (cf. WCF 16.3)
[*:03ea1650a5]Good works are not a means of sanctification
[*:03ea1650a5]Good works are a fruit and evidence of faith, strengthening assurance and giving glory to God (cf. WCF 16.2)
[*:03ea1650a5]The means that the Holy Spirit uses to bring about sanctification are the means of grace, namely the Word, prayer and the sacraments
[*:03ea1650a5]The Christian must use diligence in sanctification, but that diligence is the mean that the Spirit uses to bring about sanctification (cf. WCF 16.3)
[/list:03ea1650a5]

Now let's see where we agree.


 (humming Psalm 133) [/quote:03ea1650a5]

I agree with everything but:

[quote:03ea1650a5]The means that the Holy Spirit uses to bring about sanctification are the means of grace, namely the Word, prayer and the sacraments[/quote:03ea1650a5]

I do not agree that prayer and the sacraments are a means of grace. That makes your works a means of grace and therefore means that you are sanctified by your works. The only means of grace given in the Scriptures whereby we are sanctified is the Word of God applied by the power of the Spirit in the believers life. (John 17:17, etc)

[quote:03ea1650a5]The Christian must use diligence in sanctification, but that diligence is the mean that the Spirit uses to bring about sanctification[/quote:03ea1650a5]

Yes the believer must be diligent in his obedience to the Lord and His Word, but again, that diligence does not sanctify. Our diligence is not the cause of sanctification. 

In fact, these two statements seem to disagree with what Fred wrote here:

[quote:03ea1650a5]Good works are not a means of sanctification

Good works are a fruit and evidence of faith, strengthening assurance and giving glory to God[/quote:03ea1650a5]

This is my whole point. We do not add anything to our sanctification. God accomplishes the work by means (which do not include our good works in any way), and the results of the work is our producing good works and growing in grace.

Fred, I thought that was where you stood, and am actually confused by the two points you posted that I disagree with.....let me know if you were not clear or if I misunderstood you.

Bottom line, sanctification, even in the [i:03ea1650a5]progressive[/i:03ea1650a5] sense, is totally monergistic and the things we [i:03ea1650a5]do[/i:03ea1650a5] (our good works) are an evidence of the fact that we are in fact being sanctified - hence from our works we gain hope and assurance! The works testify to the work that Christ is doing in us and through us. 

So to say that sanctification, in any sense, is synergistic, adds works to grace in our salvation.

Make sense?

Phillip


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## fredtgreco

Phillip,

The sacraments are not the work of man but God:

[/quote]How do the sacraments become effectual means of salvation?
The sacraments become effectual means of salvation, not by any power in themselves, or any virtue derived from the piety or intention of him by whom they are administered, [b:5b6e8759af]but only by the working of the Holy Ghost[/b:5b6e8759af], and the blessing of Christ, by whom they are instituted. (1 Pet. 3:21, Acts 8:13,23, 1 Cor. 3:6-7, 1 Cor. 12:13) (WLC 161)[/quote]

Similarly, prayer is the work of God in us:

[quote:5b6e8759af]How doth the Spirit help us to pray?
We not knowing what to pray for as we ought, the Spirit helpeth our infirmities, by enabling us to understand both for whom, and what, and how prayer is to be made; and by working and quickening in our hearts (although not in all persons, nor at all times, in the same measure) those apprehensions, affections, and graces which are requisite for the right performance of that duty. (Rom. 8:26-27, Ps. 10:17, Zech. 12:10) (WLC 182)[/quote:5b6e8759af]

I should have expected that you would disagree, but that is the Baptist, not the monergist in you. :bs2:

Sanctification is synergistic in the sense that we work, but the work itself is the work of God in us. We are not entirely passive, as in justification, but we have no grounds to boast, since it is the Spirit Who works within us.

Our good works are evidence of the Spirit working within us by His means of grace. They do not contribute to our sanctification - in reality they are tainted with sin and but for the merit of Christ would add to our condemnation - but they show that the Spirit is working within us.

Is that clearer? (I know you won't acknowledge the sacraments, but that is a Baptistic cross you have to bear - I'm on solid Reformed monergistic grounds there, and could cite a plethora of Puritans)


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## pastorway

Yep - I know we disagree on the sacraments/ordinances. It is the Word in them that is the means, either way you look at it. 

But overall, the thing that we all must understand and agree upon is that we do not sanctify ourselves. We do not add anything to our salvation. We don't assist God in our salvation. From start to finish it is all of God and all of grace.

Yes we are required to obey the gospel message, repent and believe. We are commanded to mortify the deeds of the flesh, etc, etc. But it is all of God that we are even able to do these things. He gives us grace, repentance, faith, and the ability to mortify the deeds of the flesh.

As Paul Manata asked about Paul the Apostle beating his body into submission, I would say that to properly understand monergistic sanctification we have to grasp the idea that mortifying the flesh does not sanctify us. Our works do not further our salvation along. Instead, the works, the mortification results from our being sanctified by God.

God sanctifies us and as He does so we are progressively conformed into the image of Christ. He does the work of sanctifying and the result is that we are able to obey, mortify the flesh, deny self, and follow Christ.

To say that sancitifcation is in any way synergistic is to say that what we do (no matter the cause or means) is what saves/sanctifies us. And that denies grace alone.

God regenerates us, giving us new life and new hearts, and when He does, He soon thereafter bestows upon us faith and repentance. We repent, believe, and obey the gospel and are justified. Then the process of sacntification begins, whereby He conforms us to the image of Christ, enabling us to do what we should do as sanctified individuals. The works we do, the faith, the prayer, the sacraments/ordinaces, obedience, mortification, etc do not [i:a95af315af]cause[/i:a95af315af] or [i:a95af315af]further[/i:a95af315af] our sanctification. They instead [i:a95af315af]prove the results[/i:a95af315af] of our being sanctified. He is sanctifying us so we do good works, etc. And to end it all, one day the body itself will be completely redeemed in glorification, which is also all of God. We do not glorify ourselves or add to the new body prepared for us.

That is monergistic sanctification, and salvation by grace alone.

Phillip


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## fredtgreco

Yes. Let me give a few pertinent quotes from John Murray, perhaps the greatest proponent of the doctrines of grace in the 20th century:

[color=blue:4ba9c4cbc9]&quot;Sanctification is a work of God [i:4ba9c4cbc9]in us[/i:4ba9c4cbc9], and calling and regeneration are acts of God which have their immediate effects [i:4ba9c4cbc9]in us[/i:4ba9c4cbc9].&quot; ([i:4ba9c4cbc9]Redemption Accomplished and Applied[/i:4ba9c4cbc9], 141, emphasis in original)

&quot;The Holy Spirit is the controlling and directing agent in every regenerate person.&quot; (Id. 142)

&quot;It is necessary to remind ourselves that in the last analysis we do not sanctify ourselves. It is God who sanctifies (1 Thess. 5:23). Specifically it is the Holy Spirit who is the agent of sanctification.&quot; (Id. 146) 

&quot;While we are constantly dependent upon the supernatural agency of the Holy Spirit, we must also take account of the fact that sanctification is a process that draws within its scope the conscious life of the believer. The sanctified are not passive or quiescent in this process... Neither is the relation strictly one of co-operation as if God did his part and we did ours so that the conjunction or coordination of both produced the required result. God works in us and we also work. But the relation is that [i:4ba9c4cbc9]because[/i:4ba9c4cbc9] God works we work... The more persistently active we are in working, the more persuaded we may be that all the energizing grace and power is of God.&quot; (Id. 148-149)[/color:4ba9c4cbc9]

So it is not just that God works and we are passive. We work too - but our work is actually the work of God. In that sense, sanctification is synergistic: it requires two parties. But God is behind both parties.

It is not unlike the child who &quot;helps&quot; his father lift a large box when really the father is the one doing all the lifting.

[Edited on 5-15-2004 by fredtgreco]


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## pastorway

Good post Fred and excellent quotes.

Paul, 

I agree that we cooperate, but I don't think you and I are using the terms the same way.

When I say we cooperate in our sanctification I mean that as God sanctifies us we do things as a result. Our sanctification is furthered along and as a result we do good works.

You seem to be saying that what we do in cooperating, when we mortify the deeds of the flesh for example, that we are helping God sanctify us. Are you saying that when we cooperate that that furthers our sanctification along?

I would say that this position presents salvation secured/furthered along by works. And this cannot be.

We cooperate because we are being sanctified. Our cooperation does not sanctify us.

Phillip

[Edited on 5-15-04 by pastorway]


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## fredtgreco

[quote:1e1662a930][i:1e1662a930]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:1e1662a930]

We need to ask ourselves what would happen if ANYONE in the reformed camp said that same things that Berkof, Shedd, the Hodges, Sproul, Packer, Williamson, Dabney et al, about justification or regeneration. Our community would be in an uproar. 

Why, why on earth, HAS NO REFORMED SYSTAMATICIAN, EVER used these words with respect to the other two??? If there were no difference then it shouldn't be a problem to say that man &quot;co-operates&quot; in the other two. Now, do you seriously believe what you say??? If so you need to answer: why has this language NEVER been used if it means the EXACT SAME thing as &quot;monergism&quot; does with respect to the other two? Also, I challenge you to use thise exact SAME language about the other two. So, at church tell your pastor and elders that you now believe that man &quot;co-operates&quot; in his justification and in his regeneration. When they bring down the hammer tell them...&quot;well, all the reformed theologians use this language with respects to sanctification so I can use it now.
[/quote:1e1662a930]

Paul,

I think you are being a tad extreme here. This took me 2 minutes to find:

[quote:1e1662a930]&quot;Regeneration is he renewing of the heart and mind, and the renewed heart and mind must act according to their nature. Regeneration is the act of God and of God alone. But faith is not the act of God; it is not God who believes in Christ for salvation, it is the sinner.&quot; It is by God's grace that a person is able to believe but faith is an activity on the part of the person and him alone. In faith [i:1e1662a930]we[/i:1e1662a930] receive and rest upon Christ alone for salvation. It might be said: this is a strange mixture. God alone regenerates. We alone believe. And we believe in Christ alone for salvation. But this is precisely the way it is.&quot; (Murray, [i:1e1662a930]Redemption Accomplished and Applied[/i:1e1662a930], 106 ) [/quote:1e1662a930]

and

[quote:1e1662a930]
The elements of faith. We distinguish three elements in true saving faith. (1) An intellectual element. There is a positive recognition of the truth revealed in the Word of God, a spiritual insight which finds response in the heart of the sinner. It is an absolutely certain knowledge, based on the promises of God. While it need not be comprehensive, it should be sufficient to give the believer some idea of the fundamental truths of the gospel. (2) An emotional element (assent). This is not mentioned separately by the Heidelberg Catechism, because it is virtually included in the knowledge of saving faith. It is characteristic of this knowledge that it carries with it a strong conviction of the importance of its object, and this is assent. The truth grips the soul. (3) An element of the will (trust). This is the crowning element of saving faith. It is a personal trust in Christ as Saviour and Lord, which includes a surrender of the soul as guilty and defiled to Christ, and a reliance on Him as the source of pardon and spiritual life. In the last analysis the object of saving faith is Jesus Christ and the promise of salvation in Him. John 3:16, 18, 36; 6:40; Acts 10:43; Rom. 3:22; Gal. 2:16. [b:1e1662a930]This faith is not of human origin, but is a gift of God[/b:1e1662a930], I Cor. 12:8, 9; Gal. 5:22; Eph. 2:8. But [b:1e1662a930]its exercise is a human activity[/b:1e1662a930], to which the children of God are repeatedly exhorted, Rom. 10:9; I Cor. 2:5; Col. 1:23; I Tim. 1:5; 6:11. (Berkhof, [i:1e1662a930]Summary of Christian Doctrine[/i:1e1662a930], ch. 20)[/quote:1e1662a930]


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## Dan....

[quote:b7607d9f8d]
Pastor Phillip wrote,

I do not agree that prayer and the sacraments are a means of grace. That makes your works a means of grace and therefore means that you are sanctified by your works. The only means of grace given in the Scriptures whereby we are sanctified is the Word of God applied by the power of the Spirit in the believers life. (John 17:17, etc) 
[/quote:b7607d9f8d]

[quote:b7607d9f8d]
Pastor Fred replied:

I should have expected that you would disagree, but that is the Baptist, not the monergist in you. 
[/quote:b7607d9f8d]

First, to deny that the ordinances and prayer are means of grace is not necessarily baptistic. I, for one hold that they are indeed means of grace. It is the position of my church, and it no doubt the position of most Reformed Baptist churches. It is certainly the confessional baptist position (See LBC1689 XIV:1).

To the believer, all things are a means of grace (Romans 8:28).




[quote:b7607d9f8d]
Pastor Phillip wrote:
I do not agree that prayer and the sacraments are a means of grace. That makes your works a means of grace and therefore means that you are sanctified by your works. The only means of grace given in the Scriptures whereby we are sanctified is the Word of God applied by the power of the Spirit in the believers life.
[/quote:b7607d9f8d]

Implied: any &quot;works&quot; performed by man cannot be a means of grace.

If this were true, then so much for the preaching of the Word! The preaching of the Word is (in part) the work of men; and if God cannot utilize the works of men as a means of grace, then He cannot utilize the preaching of the Word.

The preaching of the Word, a work performed by men, is a means of grace by which God gives faith to unbelievers (Rom 10:14-15) and it is also a means whereby those who do believe are further sanctified (2 Tim 3:16-4:2).

Parents teach the commandments dilegently to their children, instructing them to obey, admonishing them to fear the Lord, correcting them (these are all work) - this is a means of grace (Deut 31:13).

Prayer (which is the work of men) is also a means of grace. The &quot;effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much (James 5:16)&quot;. See also Luke 11:9; Mk 11:24

It is by the work of communicating with our mouths, that which is &quot;good to the use of edifying&quot; that we &quot;minister grace unto the hearers (Eph 4:29)&quot;. Here again, a work is a means of grace.

God works through the means which He has appointed. If we neglect those means, then most certainly we will not be sanctified. If however, we attend unto those means, then the Spirit can and does minister grace to us through the means which he has appointed.

[Edited on 5-15-2004 by Dan....]


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## fredtgreco

[quote:0c512406f4]no we are not helping God. By co-operate I mean that I really do the fighting. I am not like a robot who only puts away the p0rn because some buttons were pressed. I need to do it. I really do it. I am active. In justification I am passive. God declares me innocent. 

I am just interested. Do you believe that we now, as regenerated men, have the ability to sin and the ability not to sin?[/quote:0c512406f4]

Paul,

I believe what I am saying and Berkhof says is this:

1. There is no work of man, no co-operation, no synergism, nothing in the work of regeneration. It is all of God.

2. Justification is a legal declaration in which the sinner is declared not guilty by the imputation of his sins on Christ and declared righteous by the imputation of the righteousness of Christ on him.

3. Sanctification also has a legal aspect to it, in that in justfication the sinner is definitively sanctified.

4. The sole instrument by which a sinner is justified is faith.

5. Faith, along with its sister grace repentance, is an act of man, who is not a robot - but it is the gift of God.

It is interesting that you bring up robots. Murray says sthe following regarding faith: &quot;In salvation God does not deal with us as machines; he deals with us as persons and therefore salvation brings the whole range of our activity within its scope. By grace we are saved through faith.&quot; (Redemption, 106)

6. Sanctification is AS MUCH a result of regeneration as justification:

[quote:0c512406f4]
They, who are once effectually called, and [b:0c512406f4]regenerated[/b:0c512406f4], having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, [b:0c512406f4]are further sanctified[/b:0c512406f4], really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, (1 Cor. 6:11, Acts 20:32, Phil. 3:10, Rom. 6:5-6) by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them, (John 17:17, Eph. 5:26, 2 Thess. 2:13) the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, (Rom. 6:6,14) and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; (Gal. 5:24, Rom. 8:13) and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, (Col. 1:11, Eph. 3:16-19) to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. (WCF 13.1)

In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail; (Rom. 7:23) yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the [b:0c512406f4]regenerate part doth overcome[/b:0c512406f4]; (Rom. 6:14, 1 John 5:4, Eph. 4:15-16) and so, the saints grow in grace, (2 Pet. 3:18, 2 Cor. 3:18) perfecting holiness in the fear of God. (2 Cor. 7:1) (WCF 13.3)

WSC 32: What benefits do they that are effectually called partake of in this life?
They that are effectually called do in this life partake of justification, (Rom. 8:30) adoption, (Eph. 1:5) and [b:0c512406f4]sanctification[/b:0c512406f4], and the several benefits which in this life do either accompany or flow from them. (1 Cor. 1:26,30)[/quote:0c512406f4]

The point is that just as the believer is involved in the work of sanctification, so is he involved in the work of sanctification.

YES, you really do need to put away sin. Yes, you are involved and not a robot. But in the same way YOU really need to repent (cf WCF 15.2). And repent not just generally, but specifically (WCF 15.5). You must rest upon Christ, believing the Word, yielding obedience, embracing the promises (WCF 14.2). You are not a robot when you believe. God does not force you. What he does is by His word and Spirit renew you, bring you to life and give you faith that you may exercise it. In the same way, God gives you the graces of sanctification so that you may die more and more to sin and live unto righteousness. Notice that every man you have quoted (and you have said yourself) that man co-operates, but it is God that works in him.


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## fredtgreco

[quote:c16f522d08][i:c16f522d08]Originally posted by Dan....[/i:c16f522d08]
First, to deny that the ordinances and prayer are means of grace is not necessarily baptistic. I, for one hold that they are indeed means of grace. It is the position of my church, and it no doubt the position of most Reformed Baptist churches. It is certainly the confessional baptist position (See LBC1689 XIV:1).[/quote:c16f522d08]

Dan, good point. SEE, Phillip, SEE!!!


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## pastorway

*Chasing a Rabbit*

A quick note for Dan....

It is not the [i:467c89d5b3]preaching[/i:467c89d5b3] of the Word that is a means of grace. It is the [i:467c89d5b3]Word[/i:467c89d5b3] preached. There is a difference.

It is the Word, not our work in handling it. That is why even a false teacher when he quotes the Word of God may see people genuinely saved under his &quot;ministry.&quot; It was not his preaching, but the Word, that is the means of grace.

Works cannot be a means of grace, for then it is works, and not grace.

[b:467c89d5b3]Romans 4[/b:467c89d5b3]
4Now to him who works, the wages are not counted as grace but as debt. 5 But to him who does not work but believes on Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is accounted for righteousness....

Our works are not a means of grace. That is the place of the Word of God. As the Word is preached, prayed, present in the observance of the ordinances, then there is a means of grace. 


And as for sanctification - the First London Confession identifies sanctification as all of grace:

[quote:467c89d5b3]All believers are a holy and sanctified people, and that sanctification is a spiritual grace of the new covenant, and an effect of the love of God manifested in the soul, whereby the believer presseth after a heavenly and evangelical obedience to all the commands, which Christ as head and king in His new covenant hath prescribed to them. 

1 Cor. 12; 1 Pet. 2:9; Eph. 1:4; 1 John 4:16; Matt. 28:20. [/quote:467c89d5b3]

and the Second London Confession elaborates:

[quote:467c89d5b3]Those who are united to Christ, effectually called, and regenerated, having had a new heart and a new spirit created in them through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, are then further sanctified in a very real and personal way. Because of the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, and by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them, the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed. The different lusts of the body of sin are increasingly weakened and mortified, and Christ's people are increasingly quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to practise all true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord. 

This sanctification extends throughout the whole person, yet it remains imperfect in this life. Some remnants of corruption live on in every part, and from this arises a continuous war between irreconcilable parties - the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh. 

In this war, although the remaining corruption for a time may greatly prevail, yet through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part overcomes. And so the saints grow in grace perfecting holiness in the fear of God; pressing after a heavenly life in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in His Word, has prescribed to them. [/quote:467c89d5b3]

We are sanctified and as a result do good works and mortify the deeds of the flesh. Our works and obedience do not add to our salvation or further us along in sanctification. They evidence the truth that sanctification is occurring.

Phillip


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## kceaster

*Paul...*

One last thought...

I was thinking back to my science and the definition of work. For work to happen, a transfer of energy must take place from one object to the next.

If synergy is working together, could it also be said to have two distinct energies working in concert for the required result?

If so, I still object to synergistic sanctification. God transfers His energy to me and thus I am energized to do the work. I bring no energy to the table, hence it is not truly synergy.

What are your thoughts?

In Christ,

KC


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## kceaster

*Paul....*

Okay, we can go off on that tangent if we wanted to, but I don't think that is beneficial. God does uphold all things by the word of His power.

But as far as energy and work go, is it our own work on our own energy? I think you've already suggested that it is God. If so, synergy does not work because it entails two independent energies working in cooperation whose combined effects are greater than the value of the individuals. Now, nothing plus God equals everything. But, are we saying that our something plus God is greater in the result because of what we have added? What can we add that makes the sum greater?

That is why synergy does not work for a man and shovel. The shovel adds nothing. It is only a tool. The man's energy is transferred through the shovel to produce work. However, they do not have a synergistic relationship.

The example from the dictionary is the medical use where two drugs combine for a greater effect. They each have something, a value, within themselves, that when added to the other creates an enhanced effect.

That is why I maintain the analogy of God doing the work and us being the vessel through whom that work is done. This is very biblical because God works in and through us to do His will. When we sin, it is not God working in us, it is us doing it. When we do not sin but obey, it is God working in us for good. Everything we do that is good or obedient or towards our sanctification is done by Him through us. If not, we would have reason to boast.

These are all reasons why the term synergy does not fit. Come up with a different word that clearly shows our relationship to God. You won't find it in Websters, but it is a word coined specifically for theology. It is monergism.

In Christ,

KC

[Edited on 5-17-2004 by kceaster]


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## kceaster

*Paul...*

Everyone can be wrong, especially me. I think you have a good portion of people who seem to agree with the use of a &quot;synergistic&quot; term, yet it still may be inconsistent to hold.

I do not understand how it exactly squares with the Standards. I do not understand how we can add anything to our sanctification. We do not sanctify ourselves, rather we are sanctified.

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to say that you have a dog in this race, there is nothing I can say to compel you otherwise. But as for me, God does the work by His grace, but why He does it in me is no merit of mine and will always be a mystery.

In Christ,

KC


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## Ianterrell

Paul,

It does seem people have more problem with the name than the doctrine in this case. I think Fred made good points about faith being an action on our part, because God is enabling and we are doing. It isn't two parties meeting at the middle its compatablistic. God ordaining, and empowering man's action.


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## kceaster

[quote:72d8c52e8e][i:72d8c52e8e]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:72d8c52e8e]
[quote:72d8c52e8e][i:72d8c52e8e]Originally posted by kceaster[/i:72d8c52e8e]
Everyone can be wrong, especially me. I think you have a good portion of people who seem to agree with the use of a &quot;synergistic&quot; term, yet it still may be inconsistent to hold.

I do not understand how it exactly squares with the Standards. I do not understand how we can add anything to our sanctification. We do not sanctify ourselves, rather we are sanctified.

1Th 5:23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

If you want to say that you have a dog in this race, there is nothing I can say to compel you otherwise. But as for me, God does the work by His grace, but why He does it in me is no merit of mine and will always be a mystery.

In Christ,

KC [/quote:72d8c52e8e]

well that was just a huge misrepresentation of my position.[/quote:72d8c52e8e]

I did not mean to represent anything by my statement other than that I am confused about your use of terminology. I am confused about anyone speaking about cooperation IF they are actually saying that we bring anything to the table independent of God. 

If it is not independent of God but dependent upon Him, then I am not sure why we can be said to be working with Him. We work because of Him. We work because He gives us something to do and the enablement to do it. If He is working in and through us, then how is it our work? Can you tell me? 

[quote:72d8c52e8e]again, we are not autonmous or independant. It is of no merit in me...so, quote where I said it was. I have repeatedly clarified and specified my terms. I have yet to see how you avoid a &quot;let go and let God&quot; framework.[/quote:72d8c52e8e]

Because I do not forget that He has called us to obedience, yet I still disobey. The obedience that I do, can only come from Him and through Christ. The disobedience I do can only come from myself.

So why am I not like a tool? I can do no good within myself. I am not autonomous or independent like you said, so how does the work get done? It is because of me, or because of God. If God, then how am I different than a tool?

[quote:72d8c52e8e]Also, are you saying that, Shedd, The Hodges, Berkof, Williamson, Packer, Sproul, Dabney, Gruedum, et al are all in error. Maybe, but I want to see a quote where man DOES NOT co-operate. If you say that man does than your shovel analogy is wrong...because inanmimate objects don't &quot;co-operate.&quot;[/quote:72d8c52e8e]

[b:72d8c52e8e]Does God have to change my will before I cooperate? Yes. Does He have to provide me the strength before I cooperate? Yes. Does He have to give me the work to do? Yes. If the work is good, who has accomplished it? Christ. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me. The implied converse of that is true. I can do nothing unless Christ strengthens me.

So how is it synergistic?[/b:72d8c52e8e]

1) If I am not autonomous or independent, then God must work in me.

2) If God is at work in me, He has changed my will to do so because my mind and heart are set against Him.

3) If I can do nothing unless through Christ, then I add nothing to the equation except the vessel through whom the work is done.

I think you believe so strongly about this that you cannot see that there is a balance. Antinomianism and legalism comes from unregenerate men trying to force God to do something because of their misunderstanding or trying to impress God to obtain His favor. Yet, both of these come from the unregenerate mind.

Now, in our debate over synergism, there is no room for either of these two, because if God is at work, then regeneration is a given. Therefore, there is no danger of saying work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. This cannot be abused in the child of God, or if it is, it is only for a time. Both are true. We work, but it is God who works. Same with James.

The bottom line is that the faith placed within us is the operator. That faith has God all over it and none of us. We didn't put it there, it didn't grow there by itself, nor can we increase its supply by our own will, but only because of God from Whom comes every good and perfect gift.

If that faith resides in us, we do what we ought. Not perfectly by a long stretch, but any good thing that comes from our lives, to include our progressive sanctification, comes from that faith that does not originate with us.

If you want a different analogy, we are in a boat with no rudder or anything to propel us. Are we cooperating just by being in the boat? Since we didn't place ourselves in it, I would say no. However, the boat goes as God does. It is steered by Him and propeled by Him. Such is our progressive sanctification. This does not leave us blameless or unaccountable, because we can grieve the Holy Spirit. However, when we do not grieve the Holy Spirit, it is not us, but Christ working in us.

Is that better or worse? Please answer my objections in bold above.

In Christ,

KC


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## fredtgreco

Has anyone ever &quot;worked&quot; with their child around the house or in the yard? You know, where the job is actually made harder and longer because you have to do the work for both of you - but the child is &quot;involved&quot; ?

For example: my 3 year old helps me to make coffee. I get the stuff out. I put the scoop in his hand, I do the scooping by holding his hand, I prevent it from spilling, I keep his hand on the scoop - but he is exstatic that he has &quot;helped.&quot;

That is (I believe) I picture of our actions in sanctification.


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## kceaster

*Fred...*

[quote:c6c02ef92a][i:c6c02ef92a]Originally posted by fredtgreco[/i:c6c02ef92a]
Has anyone ever &quot;worked&quot; with their child around the house or in the yard? You know, where the job is actually made harder and longer because you have to do the work for both of you - but the child is &quot;involved&quot; ?

For example: my 3 year old helps me to make coffee. I get the stuff out. I put the scoop in his hand, I do the scooping by holding his hand, I prevent it from spilling, I keep his hand on the scoop - but he is exstatic that he has &quot;helped.&quot;

That is (I believe) I picture of our actions in sanctification. [/quote:c6c02ef92a]

I can wholeheartedly agree with that.

In Christ,

KC


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## fredtgreco

I agree that Paul did not imply a &quot;meeting in the middle&quot;.

Paul do you agree with my illustration above?


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## kceaster

*Paul....*

I sincerely apologize if I have charged you in any way. It was not my intention. What I did say, and by the way, I did read your posts, was that I disagree with the use of the term of synergism.

Again, I will bow out. If you truly believe that I am accusing you of anything other than a terminology disorder, then I think it is clear I cannot get through to you.

I'll state my case one last time. Any use of synergism in theological talk is confusing. It was and still is a heresy when placed in the context of salvation. Since sanctification is a part of salvation, then I think we should lose the term.

I am perfectly fine with most of your other statements. I disagree only slightly about your example of turning off the TV when objectionable material comes on because it is not me who turns off the TV, but Christ in me. Whenever I am compelled to obey, it is Christ. Whenever I am compelled not to sin in any way shape or form, it is Christ. Whenever I am compelled to sin, it comes from my own desires and when conceived gives birth to sin.

I can't make it any clearer. I know this is the position of the Westminister Standards and aside from terminology, I have no beef with you.

I reiterate my apology and sincerely ask for your forgiveness.

In Christ,

KC


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## twogunfighter

When I sin I'm responsible. When I do right God's responsible. Sanctification is doing right. I can't understand it as anything other than monergistic.


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## Ianterrell

Paul I wasn't suggesting that you were implying a meeting in the middle either. I'm just not sure that a compatablistic view of sanctification can abide the title synergistic. I have no problem with what you are actually describing.


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## Ianterrell

1 Peter 4:11

Whoever speaks, is to do so as one who is speaking the utterances of God; whoever serves is to do so as one who is serving by the strength which God supplies; so that in all things God may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom belongs the glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen. 

I think this verse shows pretty clearly God supplying the strength and our efforts making use of that strength. Paul mentions in Philippians: &quot; for it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure(2:13)&quot; Our good motives and strength come from God which we are obligated to as you say, Paul (and I do think you are justified in doing so along with the Reformers), co-operate with.


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## Ranger

Paul,
I'm trying to follow what you are saying, but remain a little confused. Is it synergistic in that even though God is working, our experience is as though we are doing the work? Kinda the Phil. 2:12-13 thing?


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## pastorway

[b:9a9b03d4f2]Galatians 2[/b:9a9b03d4f2]
20I have been crucified with Christ; [b:9a9b03d4f2]it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me[/b:9a9b03d4f2]; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me.

Christ in me. That is sanctification.

I will say it one last time since it seems that this discussion is running the same circles around and around.....

When you mortify the deeds of the flesh you do the work that God has given you the grace to do and the works that He prepared beforehand for you to do. So the works you do add nothing to your salvation or your sanctification. The works you do do not further you in the process of sanctification.

The works you do are done because Christ is in you living through you. The works RESULT from the fact that He has furthered you in the process of being saved (sanctified).

Yes as we are being saved/sanctified we are able now to not sin. But [i:9a9b03d4f2]not sinning[/i:9a9b03d4f2] does not sanctify us. My choice to not sin when tempted does not further my salvation - it evidences the fact that I am already being saved! Not sinning results from our being sanctified. As God alone sanctifies the believer, the believer then does good works and is more and more like Christ.

To say that anything I do adds to the work of salvation, or furthers it in my life, is to deny that we needed the imputed rightouesness of Christ and flies in the face of the doctrine of salvation by grace alone. Imputed righteousness is crucial to the whole doctrine of salvation - not just to justification.

If my works are required as part of salvation then it is not by grace, but by my works so I can now boast. If, on the other hand, my works result from my being saved by grace, then God gets all the credit.

Galatians 2:20 answers every question you have asked Paul. &quot;It is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me.&quot;

Phillip


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## pastorway

*Are Good Works a Means of Our Sanctification*

Here is a sample of what you have said in our various discussions on sanctification, Paul...and every time you do, Fred, KC, and I (plus others) work to show you where you are either using the wrong words, or seriously do not understand sanctification. 

Quotes from Paul: 
[quote:abcb67d98a]
I phrase it like this: [b:abcb67d98a]progressive sanctification is synergistic[/b:abcb67d98a]. 

could one say, the more &quot;WE&quot; save ourselves??? *This* would be heresy. But virtually *every* text on systematics says *WE* 

Progressive sanctification is synergystic. 

Can we say that [b:abcb67d98a]God uses our works as one of His means to sanctify us[/b:abcb67d98a]? That is, God has predestined us unto good works. Those good works are of God and without Him we could do nothing. But we are not robots so it is true that we can truly say that WE are doing good works. Put differently, justification is 100% God, [b:abcb67d98a]sanctification is 100%/100%-- God and man[/b:abcb67d98a]. 

Now, since the morification of sin, or putting off of sin CAUSES us to be more like Christ, and since it can be said that YOU put off the sin (if YOU didn't then who?), [b:abcb67d98a]then didn't your work sanctify you[/b:abcb67d98a]. Again, I am saying that [b:abcb67d98a]God USES our works as MEANS[/b:abcb67d98a] to make us more and more like Christ, and that is progressive sanctification. This is what i mean by &quot;works sanctifying you.&quot; 

All I said was that[b:abcb67d98a] God USES our works as a means to sanctify us[/b:abcb67d98a]. 
[/quote:abcb67d98a]

But then you post and say:

[quote:abcb67d98a]Note,[b:abcb67d98a] I am not saying our works sanctify us[/b:abcb67d98a].
[/quote:abcb67d98a]

Which is it, Paul? If I am missing what you are saying it is because you are saying two different things through your posts. And I have read every word you have written in this discussion, so please dispence with the line, &quot;If you would all just read what I have written.&quot;

Be sure, I have not been saying that we are inactive. But [b:abcb67d98a]our works are not the means[/b:abcb67d98a] of sanctification, they are the [i:abcb67d98a]result[/i:abcb67d98a]. This is foundationally where you are wrong. Our works are not a means of sanctification. We must be active in our obedience to God. This proves our love for Him (1 John 2:3; 5:3), and gives us reason for assurance - if we are obedient we can be sure we are indeed saved and empowered by the Spirit to do good works. 

I would never say that we just sit there and let God work. God in sanctifying us gives us the ability to obey and to choose what is right over what is wrong. We cannot think that we just sit by and let God work and do whatever we want. We must grow in grace, we must use the means He has given so that we are striving to be obedient and do good works. (but the works are not the means).

The main point I have tried to make is that our active obedience and good works is not what He uses to sanctify us, but is instead the result of our being sanctified and the evidence that He is sanctifying us. 

Of course we will never obey perfectly until we are glorified, for until then we are living in a fallen body, this sinful flesh that wars with the spirit. That is why for now we must beat our bodies down into submission and deny ourselves. But if God were not sanctifying us we would have no ability to do so. And doing so does not further our sanctification or make us more like Christ....we do these things because we are being sanctified and because we are being made more like Christ.

Now let me ask one last question to clarify the argument: 

[b:abcb67d98a]Are our good works a means of our sanctification?[/b:abcb67d98a] 

If you answer yes, then we are being saved by our good works, instead of by grace. Goodbye Sola Gratia!

Phillip

[Edited on 5-18-04 by pastorway]


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