# Luther And Calvin



## Bryan (Jan 3, 2005)

I'm looking for information on the web that gives a look at what these two thought of each other and their theology. I've heard everything from the two agreed on almost everything with each other nd it was their followers who caused a bigger rift to they didn't much care for each others theology. Any direct quotes from them would be useful.

The only thing I have been able to find so far is from an actuall hard copy book I own




> "In 1526, Bucer, Luther, and others had reached the "Wittenberg Concord," which made room for both Luther's and Brucer's views. In 1549, Brucer, Calvin, the main Swiss Protestant theologians, and several others from southern Germany signed the "Zurich Consensus," a similar document. Also, Luther had been pleased with the publication of Calvin's Institutes. Therefore, the difference between Calvin and Luther on the presence of Christ in communion should not have been an insurmountable obstacle to Protestant unity." - The Story of Christanity Volume 2, Justo L. Gonzalez, Page 68



Bryan
SDG


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## AdamM (Jan 3, 2005)

I have read the same information about Luther speaking approvingly of the first Institutes, but although their ministries overlap a bit, Calvin and Luther really are not considered as contemporaries.


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## Bryan (Jan 3, 2005)

Very true and somewhat unfortinuate for dialogs between Reformed and Lutherans today.

Bryan
SDG


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

If one studies the early German and Swiss Reformations, one will note that great efforts were made to reconcile the Lutheran and Reformed movements, and particularly, their leaders including Luther, Zwingli, Bucer, Bullinger and Calvin. The Colloquy of Marburg (1529), the Diet of Augsburg (1530), the Wittenburg Concord (1536) and continuing efforts by Melancthon were all aimed at the union of divergent Protestant factions. 

Following is an account of these attempts at reconciliation which include comments made by Calvin and Luther towards each other: 




> The original split from the Roman Church was, in face of its refusal to reform, inevitable. The divisions within the Protestant ranks, however, were a different matter. In a sense, the antagonism between Lutheran and Zwinglian was only the recognition of a fact latent from the beginning, for two strands had been present in the Reformation all along. Zwingli always insisted that he had reached his understanding of the gospel independently of Luther and at about the same time. However that may be, his outlook was very different and, as leader of the early Swiss Reformation, he impressed his outlook upon his followers. He had been profoundly influenced by the humanists and owed less to the schoolmen than did Luther; and this clean break with the immediate past gave him a far more radical attitude than Luther could stomach. Relations between them were soon strained, but they met at Marburg in 1529 in an attempt to come to terms. They agreed on everything "“ except the Eucharist; and here both were immovable. In the end, despite their substantial agreement, the conference only served to magnify the differences and bring them into the foreground.
> 
> It is a great pity that Calvin and Luther never met, or that Calvin had not been born a few years earlier, before Luther had hardened his attitude. They were far closer to one another both theologically and in spirit than Luther and Zwingli had been. But their only real contact was through common friends. Calvin is delighted when he hears that Bucer has had a letter from Luther saying: *'Salute John Sturm and John Calvin, whose books I have read with particular pleasure'*, and Melanchthon tells him: *'Luther and Pomeranus have desired Calvin to be greeted; Calvin has acquired great favour in their eyes.'* When some loving souls sought to stir up trouble between them by pointing out a passage in Calvin's book on the Lord's Supper where he criticizes Luther, the German Reformer said with unaccustomed gentleness: *'I hope that Calvin will one day think better of us; but in any case, it is well that even now he should have a proof of our good feeling towards him.'* *'If we are not moved by such moderation, we are certainly made of stone,' says Calvin to Farel. 'For myself, I am profoundly moved by it.'*
> 
> ...



Source: _Maintaining the Unity of the Spirit in the Bond of Peace Lessons from the Ministry of John Calvin_ by Roger Wagner -- http://www.scccs.org/scccs/word/PenpointArticle.asp?id=42

[Edited on 4-1-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## Irishcat922 (Jan 4, 2005)

From my understanding Luther and Calvin weren't that far apart. The rift came from Melancthon's theology.


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## AdamM (Jan 4, 2005)

I think another point to consider is that Zwingli gets a bad rap because his view of the Lord's Supper wasn't the "Zwinglian" or mere memorial view folks toss around today. If you take the time to study what he actually taught, (again not what has come to be called "Zwinglian" today,) you will find Zwingli's actual view isn't that much different than Calvin's.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

The book _Drinking With Calvin and Luther_ by Jim West emphasizes a different bond between the Reformers. How pleasant it will be to sit down and share a pint with them in Heaven!


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## Ivan (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_ How pleasant it will be to sit down and share a pint with them in Heaven!



There's beer in heaven!!!


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## Ivan (Jan 4, 2005)

BTW, I will need scripture passages.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> BTW, I will need scripture passages.



By all means check out that Jim West book. It's full of 'em. If not beer, then wine at any rate! 

Anyway, back to Calvin and Luther...I highlighted some of the quotes they said of each other. It's very interesting to read their own words.


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## Ivan (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
> 
> By all means check out that Jim West book. It's full of 'em. If not beer, then wine at any rate!  _


_

BTW, Amazon and Christianbook does not have West's book avaiable. I believe you told me once, Andrew, where to get the book, but I've forgotten. Please advise again._


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot
> ...


_

Surely, here you go, my friend - may it be a blessing to you, brother! 

http://www.oakdown.com/books/drinking.shtml_


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 30, 2006)




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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 30, 2006)

AdamM said:


> I think another point to consider is that Zwingli gets a bad rap because his view of the Lord's Supper wasn't the "Zwinglian" or mere memorial view folks toss around today. If you take the time to study what he actually taught, (again not what has come to be called "Zwinglian" today,) you will find Zwingli's actual view isn't that much different than Calvin's.


The recent issue of _Tabletalk_ has some interesting articles about the nature of Christ's presence in the Lord's supper. There is some interesting discussion about the scholastic uses of certain terms regarding physical presence.

Ironically, last week I was at a Church meeting and the Pastor asked us: "Is the Lord's Supper a Sign or a Sacrament."

Folks replied that it was sign. He said they were right.

I announced: "It's a Sacrament."

He said: "We're Baptists, we believe it's a sign."

I repled: "Scripture teaches otherwise." 

I'm not sure he knew there was any use of the term Sacrament outside of the Roman Catholic use of the term.


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## RamistThomist (Oct 30, 2006)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> The book _Drinking With Calvin and Luther_ by Jim West emphasizes a different bond between the Reformers. How pleasant it will be to sit down and share a pint with them in Heaven!




I am not worthy to throw down with Luther and Calvin. Luther could easily outlast me!


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## caddy (Oct 30, 2006)

It's a good read Ivan. I recommend K.Gentry's "God Gave Wine" as well.

 



Ivan said:


> BTW, Amazon and Christianbook does not have West's book avaiable. I believe you told me once, Andrew, where to get the book, but I've forgotten. Please advise again.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 30, 2006)

Draught Horse said:


> I am not worthy to throw down with Luther and Calvin. Luther could easily outlast me!



Jim West, _Drinking With Calvin & Luther_, p. 30:



> Luther had a mug that was encircled by three rings -- like barrel hoops. Starting from the bottom and working up, one ring represented the Lord's Prayer, the next the Ten Commandments, and the last the Apostle's Creed. Luther was amused that -- in one long draught -- he could drain a glass of wine through the Lord's Prayer, but his friend Agricola could not get beyond the Ten Commandments.


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