# Ten indictments against the modern church



## mvdm

Latest message by Paul Washer. 2 hours long, but very worthwhile.

[video=youtube;X7wzfvYkCW0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7wzfvYkCW0[/video]


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## Blue Tick

Listening to it right now.


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## Pergamum

What are those 10 indictments? Anyone take notes?


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## Prufrock

"The church ought to be seeker friendly, but the church ought to recognize that there is only one seeker -- his name is God, and if you want to be friendly to someone, if you want to accommodate someone, accommodate him and his glory; whether it is rejected by everyone else, we are not called to build empires, we are not called to be accepted, we are called to glorify God."

I don't know too much about this guy, but I thought that was one of the best quotes I've heard from a modern preacher in a long time. Props for that.


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## APuritansMind

Ten Indictments Against the Modern Church in America (Paul Washer)

1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
2. An ignorance of God
3. A failure to address man's malady
4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ
5. An ignorance of the doctrine of regeneration
6. An unbiblical gospel invitation
7. Ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
8. A lack of loving and compassionate Church discipline
9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures with regard to the family
10. The Emergent Church , Church growth, and cultural sensitivity

"All this Emergent Church stuff, much of the Church Growth stuff, all of the cultural sensitivity, throwing out the window biblical sensitivity, it is just a bunch of little boys wanting to play church without the power of God on their life. And I will stand on that statement." Paul Washer


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## Pergamum

What did he say about 7 and 10?


He is not advocating being needlessly culturally insensitive is he? Sometimes when people react against unbiblical trends the listeners want to err in the other direction, is he balanced in his critique?


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## jaybird0827

APuritansMind said:


> Ten Indictments Against the Modern Church in America (Paul Washer)
> 
> 1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
> 2. An ignorance of God
> 3. A failure to address man's malady
> 4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ
> 5. An ignorance of the doctrine of regeneration
> 6. An unbiblical gospel invitation
> 7. Ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
> 8. A lack of loving and compassionate Church discipline
> 9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures with regard to the family
> 10. The Emergent Church , Church growth, and cultural sensitivity
> 
> "All this Emergent Church stuff, much of the Church Growth stuff, all of the cultural sensitivity, throwing out the window biblical sensitivity, it is just a bunch of little boys wanting to play church without the power of God on their life. And I will stand on that statement." Paul Washer


 
Appreciate the summary - thanks!


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## JohnGill

APuritansMind said:


> Ten Indictments Against the Modern Church in America (Paul Washer)
> 
> 1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
> 2. An ignorance of God
> 3. A failure to address man's malady
> 4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ
> 5. An ignorance of the doctrine of regeneration
> 6. An unbiblical gospel invitation
> 7. Ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
> 8. A lack of loving and compassionate Church discipline
> 9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures with regard to the family
> 10. The Emergent Church , Church growth, and cultural sensitivity
> 
> "All this Emergent Church stuff, much of the Church Growth stuff, all of the cultural sensitivity, throwing out the window biblical sensitivity, it is just a bunch of little boys wanting to play church without the power of God on their life. And I will stand on that statement." Paul Washer



Are you attending my church? We have all 10. I had Deut 6:4-9 posted above the main entryway in the hopes of encouraging conversation about God and his word instead of the usual trivialities that people talk about. Didn't work.


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## mvdm

Pergamum said:


> What did he say about 7 and 10?
> 
> 
> He is not advocating being needlessly culturally insensitive is he? Sometimes when people react against unbiblical trends the listeners want to err in the other direction, is he balanced in his critique?



No, he is not advocating being "needlessly" culturally insensitive.

No, he is not "unbalanced", since he is critiquing particular unbiblical practices in the light of scripture.

And I'm not sure how one "errs" in direction if he is heading in the opposite path of unbiblical practices.


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## ReformedWretch

Perg, he's preached all over the world in every culture imaginable so he's pretty sensitive of missionary issues.


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## Pergamum

mvdm said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did he say about 7 and 10?
> 
> 
> He is not advocating being needlessly culturally insensitive is he? Sometimes when people react against unbiblical trends the listeners want to err in the other direction, is he balanced in his critique?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, he is not advocating being "needlessly" culturally insensitive.
> 
> No, he is not "unbalanced", since he is critiquing particular unbiblical practices in the light of scripture.
> 
> And I'm not sure how one "errs" in direction if he is heading in the opposite path of unbiblical practices.
Click to expand...


Just checking...

I once heard a Fundy missionary speak against cultural sensitivity and how you just needed to preach the Word. Then I saw a photo of him amidst tribal peoples in a tropical environment doing outdoor preaching (Africa) and he had a 3 piece suit on, tie and black leather shoes, and was conspicously dressed different from others. 

I also actually heard a minister speak against American abortions and pass out pamphlets of dead babies from abortion here in the jungle and also another pamphlet on prayer in schools - totally out of context (fighting Western battles among folks that think my village is called "America" and maybe has a few hundred people). 


One "errs" in being too culturally sensitive at the expense of the Gospel; one also errs in not considering culture at all.




P.s. I am not saying he does do this, but merely asking if he does this. I am loading it up now....


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## Pergamum

Listening.....good stuff.


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## Pergamum

Listening more.....even gooder stuff..


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## turmeric

I think you'll like him, Perg. He just doesn't want you to be Joel Osteen.


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## Pergamum

Yes, I've listened to him before and it was very good. 

However, during that time he mentioned the "cultural relevancy" issue in one sermon I heard, but did not expand upon it and only mentioned it in the negative and in passing and did not develop his fuller thoughts, leaving me worried that it was not a balanced critique. But, generally, when he has time to develop his thoughts and not merely mention things for rhetorical effect, I agree very much...as I am finding myself agreesing very much now.


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## Blue Tick

Mr. Washer’s concerns could be addressed very easily if there was true Biblical and Confessional reform. That is reforming back to the Bible and reforming and teaching people what the Confessions and Catechism teach. My concern is that Mr. Washer will get people on an emotional trip not balanced with solid Biblically reforming Christian piety. It’s easy to say we have this indictment against the church; but where is the guidance after the indictment is made? If this is true of the modern church, what is the standard in which the church is to conduct itself? Moreover, it’s very easy to critique the church and to point out all of the deficiencies within evangelicalism; but this should not be the object of the church at larger to critique the church. Alternatively, maybe the approach should be instead of pointing out the error of the modern church, the church should be pointing folks to the history of the Christian church and what the church has historically held as Christian piety from a Confessional base.

The answer to Mr. Washer's concerns can be addressed by reforming back to God's word and practicing Confessional Christianity. I believe he’s making the case to reform back to God’s word which is great! I’m encouraged to hear this. However, the church must confess what we believe and why we believe it. Therefore, the true need is to reform back to Biblical Confessionalism.


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## mvdm

_The answer to Mr. Washer's concerns can be addressed by reforming back to God's word and practicing Confessional Christianity. I believe he’s making the case to reform back to God’s word which is great! I’m encouraged to hear this. However, the church must confess what we believe and why we believe it. Therefore, the true need is to reform back to Biblical Confessionalism._

I agree brother, but Washer is addressing first things first. The first step in the direction of a vital confessionalism is to first repent of our sin. But today, the North American church does not even see that what they are doing is an abomination. They've traded their birthright for a mess of sewage. 

Remember too, that even confessional churches have bought into this deception. The CRC is ostensibly confessional, but the spiritual reality is that it is no different than any run of the mill Willowcreek church. What good is their confession if they don't BELIEVE it?

The idol must be absolutely destroyed first.


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## Blue Tick

I agree. Thank you for responding.


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## Grace Alone

Wow, very powerful to say the least.


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## Pergamum

Blue Tick said:


> Mr. Washer’s concerns could be addressed very easily if there was true Biblical and Confessional reform. That is reforming back to the Bible and reforming and teaching people what the Confessions and Catechism teach. My concern is that Mr. Washer will get people on an emotional trip not balanced with solid Biblically reforming Christian piety. It’s easy to say we have this indictment against the church; but where is the guidance after the indictment is made? If this is true of the modern church, what is the standard in which the church is to conduct itself? Moreover, it’s very easy to critique the church and to point out all of the deficiencies within evangelicalism; but this should not be the object of the church at larger to critique the church. Alternatively, maybe the approach should be instead of pointing out the error of the modern church, the church should be pointing folks to the history of the Christian church and what the church has historically held as Christian piety from a Confessional base.
> 
> The answer to Mr. Washer's concerns can be addressed by reforming back to God's word and practicing Confessional Christianity. I believe he’s making the case to reform back to God’s word which is great! I’m encouraged to hear this. However, the church must confess what we believe and why we believe it. Therefore, the true need is to reform back to Biblical Confessionalism.



His church holds to a confession of faith and they practice it - isn't that confessional Christianity?


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## tellville

Washer is the man.


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## Tim

Is this a sermon? 2 hours? Wow!


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## cupotea

I wonder if there's a transcript for this, we Chinese Christians definitely need this kind of message.


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## ReformedWretch

I know there is often pdf file transcripts of his sermons.



> Washer is the man



Absolutely! 



> Is this a sermon? 2 hours? Wow!



yep, yet I was sad when it was over!


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## Tim

Is this sermon available audio only?


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## mvdm

There is both an audio and PDF transcript version of this sermon here:

SermonAudio.com - 10 Indictments Against the Modern Church in America (Revival Conference) - Includes Cut Off Minutes and Improved Audio Quality!


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## Wannabee

"Sunday morning is the greatest hour of idolatry in the entire week of America, because people are not worshipping the one true God... but are worshipping a god formed out of their own heart, by their own flesh, satanic devices and worldly intelligence; the've made a god just like themselves and he looks more like Santa Clause than Yahweh. There can be no fear of God among us, because there is no knowledge of the Lord among us."


Heh, that'll get him a spot on TBN.

Great sermon! Thanks!


Wanna see a great fundy review of Washer? Check this out. It'll definitely make you want to hear more of Washer. Talk about abusing Scripture, check out his last statement.


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## kvanlaan

> Wanna see a great fundy review of Washer? Check this out. It'll definitely make you want to hear more of Washer. Talk about abusing Scripture, check out his last statement.



Not only that, do you see the silhouette at the bottom? It's Billy Sunday callin' down damnation. Woohoo.

This is the same 'Jesus-is-lord' site that was the source of some really _apikorsiche_ stuff the other day.


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## Spinningplates2

Wannabee said:


> Wanna see a great fundy review of Washer? Check this out. It'll definitely make you want to hear more of Washer. Talk about abusing Scripture, check out his last statement.



I checked out the link you provided and was smacked in the face by my lack of understanding of how wacked out crazy some Christians can get.


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## LawrenceU

> Wanna see a great fundy review of Washer? Check this out. It'll definitely make you want to hear more of Washer. Talk about abusing Scripture, check out his last statement.



Reminds me of a clock that used to hang in my Papa's house. Every quarter hour it would have this little bird come out and sing, 'Cookoo!)


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## Pergamum

_Mr. Washer brainwashes a group of 5,000 youths to believe that they can't be saved without literally turning from their sins. Notice the Rock 'N' Roll drums in the background on the video... what about the evils of Christian Rock Mr. Washer? _


WOW! Is this site really for real or a Jack Chick parody or something?


Condemn a man for preaching repentance and then tell him the real message ought to be against drums?

WOW again, that sermon was great....a good one for Reformation Day 



(a modern 95 theses for the current church feces)...


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## KMK

Pergamum said:


> _Mr. Washer brainwashes a group of 5,000 youths to believe that they can't be saved without literally turning from their sins. Notice the Rock 'N' Roll drums in the background on the video... what about the evils of Christian Rock Mr. Washer? _
> 
> 
> WOW! Is this site really for real or a Jack Chick parody or something?
> 
> 
> Condemn a man for preaching repentance and then tell him the real message ought to be against drums?





Wow. If he thinks the SBC is apostate, what does he think of the Presbyterians?


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## nicnap

jaybird0827 said:


> APuritansMind said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ten Indictments Against the Modern Church in America (Paul Washer)
> 
> 1. A practical denial of the sufficiency of Scripture
> 2. An ignorance of God
> 3. A failure to address man's malady
> 4. An ignorance of the gospel of Jesus Christ
> 5. An ignorance of the doctrine of regeneration
> 6. An unbiblical gospel invitation
> 7. Ignorance regarding the nature of the Church
> 8. A lack of loving and compassionate Church discipline
> 9. Psychology and sociology have replaced the Scriptures with regard to the family
> 10. The Emergent Church , Church growth, and cultural sensitivity
> 
> "All this Emergent Church stuff, much of the Church Growth stuff, all of the cultural sensitivity, throwing out the window biblical sensitivity, it is just a bunch of little boys wanting to play church without the power of God on their life. And I will stand on that statement." Paul Washer
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Appreciate the summary - thanks!
Click to expand...


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## cupotea

I have a theological question to ask :

in his sermon Paul Washer says:

quote

I was in German a while back or in a Germanic seminary in Europe a while back and this
book The Cross of Christ, now it wasn't John Stott's book, it was another. I pulled it off
and began to read it and this is what it said. "The Father looked down from heaven at the
suffering inflicted upon his Son by the hands of men and counted that as payment for our
sin."

That is heresy.

end of quote

Could you analyze for me why he says this statement is heresy?

Thank you for your help.


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## ReformedWretch

Because the amount of suffering Christ went through isn't what saved us. Pastor Washer went on to explain this in the sermon and what does save us. Did you hear that part?


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## cupotea

PuritanBouncer said:


> Because the amount of suffering Christ went through isn't what saved us. Pastor Washer went on to explain this in the sermon and what does save us. Did you hear that part?



Thanks.

Could I understand that it is not the suffering that saved, but Christ's
death ?


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## smhbbag

> Could I understand that it is not the suffering that saved, but Christ's
> death ?



Yes.


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## Blue Tick

Pergamum said:


> Blue Tick said:
> 
> 
> 
> Mr. Washer’s concerns could be addressed very easily if there was true Biblical and Confessional reform. That is reforming back to the Bible and reforming and teaching people what the Confessions and Catechism teach. My concern is that Mr. Washer will get people on an emotional trip not balanced with solid Biblically reforming Christian piety. It’s easy to say we have this indictment against the church; but where is the guidance after the indictment is made? If this is true of the modern church, what is the standard in which the church is to conduct itself? Moreover, it’s very easy to critique the church and to point out all of the deficiencies within evangelicalism; but this should not be the object of the church at larger to critique the church. Alternatively, maybe the approach should be instead of pointing out the error of the modern church, the church should be pointing folks to the history of the Christian church and what the church has historically held as Christian piety from a Confessional base.
> 
> The answer to Mr. Washer's concerns can be addressed by reforming back to God's word and practicing Confessional Christianity. I believe he’s making the case to reform back to God’s word which is great! I’m encouraged to hear this. However, the church must confess what we believe and why we believe it. Therefore, the true need is to reform back to Biblical Confessionalism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> His church holds to a confession of faith and they practice it - isn't that confessional Christianity?
Click to expand...


What I'm advocating is a return to the confessions that already exist, e.g., Westminster Standards and The Three forms of Unity, etc.


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## Grace Alone

My sense is that you have to get them to where they realize they are off track biblically before you can point them to adopting a confession of faith. I think Washer is totally right to hit on issues where the evangelical church has abandoned biblical principles.


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## TheFleshProfitethNothing

I had posted on another thread, that I, as others I know, believe we are in the Great Apostosy...or Falling Away. Have been for sometime.

What is the purpose of the church? To scratch itching ears...feed into people's need for Self-help? Lot's of Mammon in that business.


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## Pergamum

So much gloom and doom. 

The Gospel is spreading to other parts of the world, like Asia, even while it dies here. Read Philip Jenkin's "The Next Christendom: The Rise of Global Christianity."


Psalm 72 is correct, Jesus shall reign where'r the sun in its successive journeys run...


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## Pilgrim

TheFleshProfitethNothing said:


> I had posted on another thread, that I, as others I know, believe we are in the Great Apostosy...or Falling Away. Have been for sometime.
> 
> What is the purpose of the church? To scratch itching ears...feed into people's need for Self-help? Lot's of Mammon in that business.



We may well be in the falling away. But your comments on the church are reminiscent of Harold Camping! The Bible has other ideas about the "purpose of the church."


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## cupotea

As a non-American Christian, I'd like to know if this sermon brought some impact 
on the churches in America ( both reformed and others).


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## Blue Tick

duncan001 said:


> As a non-American Christian, I'd like to know if this sermon brought some impact
> on the churches in America ( both reformed and others).



For those who listened to the sermon I believe it discussed some sobering things to meditate on. I don't think it affected the church corporately but the sermon does have an impact on those who listen to it individually.


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## Blue Tick

Does anyone know who Pastor Washer is addressing? Is it a congregation or is he speaking to other pastors?


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## BJClark

duncan001;



> As a non-American Christian, I'd like to know if this sermon brought some impact on the churches in America ( both reformed and others).



I'm not sure what group he is speaking to, but I'd venture to say MOST Christians in America have NEVER heard this sermon..

So I will be sending it out to some of my friends so that they can listen to it, and they in turn MIGHT be compelled to send it out to others as well..


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## Grace Alone

Blue Tick said:


> Does anyone know who Pastor Washer is addressing? Is it a congregation or is he speaking to other pastors?



It seems like when I watched the video I had the impression that women were in the congregation, so I thought that he was preaching to a church, not a group of pastors.


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## Timothy William

duncan001 said:


> PuritanBouncer said:
> 
> 
> 
> Because the amount of suffering Christ went through isn't what saved us. Pastor Washer went on to explain this in the sermon and what does save us. Did you hear that part?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Could I understand that it is not the suffering that saved, but Christ's
> death ?
Click to expand...


I just reread that portion. The point Washer is making is not so much between Christ's physical pain and His death, but between the suffering inflicted by the Romans (pain and death) and His becoming sin for us, being cursed and crushed by God. He says that God did not turn away because he could not bear to see his Son suffer, but because Christ became sin for us, and God cannot bear to look on sin. We are saved not just because Jesus suffered pain and death under Pilate but because God's wrath was poured out upon Him.


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## asc

I watched recently watched it after seeing the positive reviews here. I did benefit from it, but I was surprised at his passing critique of paedobaptism. I think he called it the "sacred cow of the Reformation".


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## Ed Franklin

Blue Tick said:


> Does anyone know who Pastor Washer is addressing? Is it a congregation or is he speaking to other pastors?



Paul was speaking at the Revival Conference in Atlanta. These conferences are a ministry of Sermon Index (SermonIndex.net audio sermons) They held one in 2007 and there is one next week in Greenock Scotland.

Paul is not a pastor but a missionary. He was on the field in Peru for ten years before starting the Heart Cry Missionary Society which he leads. It is under the authority of the elders in his home church--Grace Life Church of the Shoals in Alabama.


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