# Southern Baptist Seminaries



## Canadian _Shawn (Oct 5, 2005)

Hey,

Are there any Southern Baptist seminaries where I could get a good Reformed education? They seem to be a lot cheaper, and I'm not sure if there's an appreciable difference in the quality of education between them and the Reformed seminaries. I would particularly interested in knowing the quality of their pastoral courses and the church placement opportunities.

Cheers,
Shawn


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## youthevang (Oct 5, 2005)

You can check out Southern Seminary in Louisville, KY. It is the only Southern Baptist Seminary that I know of that is strong in Calvinism. Also, it is the mother of all the Southern Baptist seminaries.

http://sbts.edu


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by youthevang_
> You can check out Southern Seminary in Louisville, KY. It is the only Southern Baptist Seminary that I know of that is strong in Calvinism. Also, it is the mother of all the Southern Baptist seminaries.
> 
> http://sbts.edu



That's right, it is _THE_ Southern Baptist Theological Seminary!!!

If you're wanting a very good education from a theological stance that is simultaneously both strongly calvinistic and Southern Baptist (that is, they teach Southern Baptist culture and values as well as theology), then I can think of no better place than Southern.

However, if by "Reformed" you mean "Covenant Theology" then you may want to look elsewhere, or at least do your own reading while here (which is what I do).


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## Canadian _Shawn (Oct 5, 2005)

*Pastoral concerns*

Hey Sola!

Ok, well let me ask you something. I'm not formally Southern Baptist, but with their new stances on the inerrancy of Scripture and on officially forbidding women preachers I feel like that would be the home for me, should I move to the States with my wife. So far, so good.

But what is Southern Baptist culture and values? I've been to baptist churches where the culture they preached was anything but good, ie: Baptist culture is not necessarily Chrisitian culture.

Also, how is the seminary for pastoral training, biblical exegesis and preaching? Do you think there could be more emphasis placed on one area rather than another? For example, I've heard other people complain that their seminary education, while it prepared them well for reading Hebrew, left them almost completely useless as far as actually counselling people, and dealing with the day to day business of running a church. So how strong is Southern on church and ministry placement? I would love to know.

Also, what is Louisville like? For good or ill I've only ever lived in cosmopolitan cities my whole life. Will I be shocked with Kentucky? Is it culturally diverse, or mostly just white protestant? Would it be considered "hick" compared to other cities? 

In Christ,
Shawn


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 5, 2005)

Shawn, I spent three semesters on campus at Southern, if you'd like to hear my take (which is likely different than what Sola will say), email me.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Shawn, I spent three semesters on campus at Southern, if you'd like to hear my take (which is likely different than what Sola will say), email me.



Shawn,
Gabe spent three semesters at _Boyce College_. Not _Southern Seminary_. Don't confuse the two. Gabe is in college, not seminary.
The two schools are separated by a "valley." They have their own classroom facilities, their own chapel, even their own dean and faculty. Everyone I know who has interactions at both places will say that the whole atmosphere is different between the two places.

[Edited on 10-5-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

> Ok, well let me ask you something. I'm not formally Southern Baptist, but with their new stances on the inerrancy of Scripture and on officially forbidding women preachers I feel like that would be the home for me, should I move to the States with my wife. So far, so good.


Funny! That is precisely what I thought! When I first heard of Southern I had never stepped foot in a SBC church. I was attracted to their conservative positions, I read the Abstract of Principles (the school's statement of faith) and niavely thought that this meant I could fit right in.



> But what is Southern Baptist culture and values? I've been to baptist churches where the culture they preached was anything but good, ie: Baptist culture is not necessarily Chrisitian culture.



Exactly. My first semester was such a rude awakening that I almost left. Believe it or not, for many Southern Baptists, a large part of being a good Southern Baptist is in being _Southern_. I would go meet with representatives from various assocations (since I was looking for a part-time ministry position) and I was repeatedly told that I may be a fit for a "progressive" (read: moderate or liberal) church, but a "traditional" church probably wouldn't want me - this is literally what I was told on 3 occasions - because I didn't come with a SBC pedigree. 
Furthermore, I was schocked to discover that many _Southern_ Southern Baptists hold anyone who doesn't speak with a southern accent as being suspect (for how can a northerner actually preach sound doctrine?).
Additionally, the school is Calvinistic much to the disdain of many in the denomination. I eventually stopped trying to get a part-time position when CONSISTENTLY the first question in the interview would be "So, are you one of them Calvinists?" I got so sick of that being the first question that at one point I actually responded with, "Isn't everyone?" 
They are staunchly opposed to consuming alcohol - though you can smoke your brains out for all they care. A minority on campus hold to closed communion, many deny the need for a plurality of elders in the local church, many want to turn every sermon into an evangelistic sermon (even among the Calvinists - they'll often cite Spurgeon). Of course, it has been my purpose here to give a realistic view of some of the "cultural" things you'll have to get used to. 



> Also, how is the seminary for pastoral training, biblical exegesis and preaching? Do you think there could be more emphasis placed on one area rather than another? For example, I've heard other people complain that their seminary education, while it prepared them well for reading Hebrew, left them almost completely useless as far as actually counselling people, and dealing with the day to day business of running a church. So how strong is Southern on church and ministry placement? I would love to know.



Well, what follows I'm sure is true of any school, but moreso in the case of Southern since it is so large and offers so many choices:
You can take those professors who are academically "light" (comparatively speaking) and who focus on practical application, or you can take those professors who are quite intense in academic matters and relatively weak in terms of practical application. In fact, Southern has many "tracks" in their MDiv... some of which are heavily academic, others are quite practically oriented. (I took the Christian Ministries track because it gives me the geatest numberof electives, which I used in theology.) As far as counseling, I am pleased the Southern has offically moved to a biblical counseling model - totally revamping their counseling department. They've recently brought in some great guys in the field. I'm sure that this move will be a blessing for the Church.



> Also, what is Louisville like? For good or ill I've only ever lived in cosmopolitan cities my whole life. Will I be shocked with Kentucky? Is it culturally diverse, or mostly just white protestant? Would it be considered "hick" compared to other cities?


Well, it all compares to what cities you are comparing it with! I am sure that compared to Amsterdam, Louisville would seem quite parochial! I attended college in Chicago and coming from that mega city to Louisville (which has about a half million people) at first I thought it was ridiculously slow and boring. But then I got acclimated and I discovered that it is a very nice area with a lot to do. As far as churches, Louisville was settled by the French, so Catholicism rules. There are also a ton of SBC churches, though only a handful of them are worth going to (that is, because they hold to the doctrines of grace). The BIG church in town (incidentally, where Michael W. Smith recorded his two worship albums) is a Campbellite church called Southeast Christian Church. There are only two PCA churches in town, one of which has totally succumbed to Federal Vision theology. If the other PCA church isn't "reformed enough" for you, then you'd need to do like Gabe and drive an hour and a half up into Indiana. 


[Edited on 10-5-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## Canadian _Shawn (Oct 5, 2005)

Hi Ben,

Thanks for that very frank and refreshing overview. Its left me really wondering whether that's the place for me. The impression I get is that even if I go to the SBC's flagship seminary, that may, in fact, be counted against me insofar as finding a ministry afterwards is concerned. Let me tell you, I am not a southerner.... I grew up in a french city in Canada, and I'm totally a Calvinist. Hmmm, but if I go to a Reformed seminary, then I'm gonna get looked at funny by Baptist churches anyways. Maybe I should just stick to someplace like Trinity Evangelical, Gordon-Conwell or Denver? Or just stick to my guns and trust in Providence?

So what's your story - are you PCA or SB?

In Christ,
Shawn


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Canadian _Shawn_
> Hi Ben,
> 
> Thanks for that very frank and refreshing overview. Its left me really wondering whether that's the place for me. The impression I get is that even if I go to the SBC's flagship seminary, that may, in fact, be counted against me insofar as finding a ministry afterwards is concerned. Let me tell you, I am not a southerner.... I grew up in a french city in Canada, and I'm totally a Calvinist. Hmmm, but if I go to a Reformed seminary, then I'm gonna get looked at funny by Baptist churches anyways. Maybe I should just stick to someplace like Trinity Evangelical, Gordon-Conwell or Denver? Or just stick to my guns and trust in Providence?
> ...



Incidentally, one of the most brilliant - and academically tough - professors on campus comes from Toronto. Humanly speaking, I doubt you'll have a problem finding a job - Southern has the reputation of being a "calvinistic/reformed baptist mecca" right now.


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## Kstone1999 (Oct 5, 2005)

Hi Ben,

Sorry to jump in, but is sound like you have a lot of good advice. Im looking into Southern as well. I grew up souther baptist, but left the more "reformed" I became. Im looking for a seminary where I can really learn the orig. languages and to do exegisis. Do you feel that that equip you with the tools to become an effective pastor/teacher?


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

I mentioned those other things because I believe in presenting the bad with the good. I doubt you´ll find others to be so candid.
Despite all that I wrote, I am glad that I stayed at Southern. A long time ago I read an article on Piper´s website in which he gives this advice: pick a seminary based on faculty. To a large extent, I agree. (You can go look it up for the reasons.)
Well, other campuses have one or two "œbig name" profs, but few others have as many as Southern (TEDS has several, but who wants to spend over $5000 a semester???)
I mean, where else will you be able to study OT with someone like Duane Garrett (I would mention Gentry, but he´s one of those "œsuper scholars" who works strictly at the textual level and is only well known by other scholars since he mainly writes in magazines such as Vetus Testamentum), NT with someone like Schreiner, Church History with someone like Tom Nettles, Theology with someone like Al Mohler or Bruce Ware, spiritual formation from someone like Donald Whitney or take courses on a Christian view of the natural sciences from the likes of Dembski? Furthermore, we´ve had folks like Timothy George, Michael Haykin, Roger Nicole, DA Carson, etc"¦ come teach during the summers.
Do you want a response to JEDP that goes beyond "œthat´s stupid?" Garrett is making waves with his reanalysis. Also, and I know from being there, he single handledly changed the eschatology of at least 3 students when he spent two weeks presenting a non-dispensationalist interpretation of the prophecies of Daniel.
If you´re a Baptist, and you want to study Baptist history, there is literally no one better to sit under than Nettles.
Want to learn about the New Pauline Perspective and responses against it? Schreiner is one of the top Pauline scholars alive!
Want to learn about Openness of God theology, how it works, how to respond to it, etc? Ware wrote the first major response and was the chief "œprosecutor" at ETS, so who better to learn from?
Want to learn about intelligent design? Who better to learn from than Dembski?
I could go on, but you hopefully get the point.

The professors really are top notch. Furthermore, I´ve found all the professors and most of my fellow students to be very cordial and respectful of me. 

The academic quality was driven home when I went to visit Covenant about a year ago. There, the professor asked if anyone had heard of the TNIV and the controversy surrounding it. Only a handful of the people raised their hands. Well, at Southern, we were WELL versed on the issue, with many of our profs being on the vanguard against it. Our school was on such the cutting edge in response to the TNIV that Zondervan actually sought (and obtained) permission from Mohler to distribute the New Testament a year before it was released to the public so that we could check it out. So, what I mean is, my peers and I are much better versed in translation theory and the arguments surrounding the gender neutral language than those folks at Covenant. 
Actually, with the Council of Biblical Manhood and Womanhood being located here at Southern, I´d say that we are more up to speed on those issues than any school in the country. 

There are a number of other pluses, but from an academic standpoint I´d say that my favorite is the library. The library is (as they love to tout) the 3rd largest theological library in the country. It is, by far, the largest library of any conservative school. 

Plus, since it has the reputation that it does, you won´t have a problem finding a job. The funny thing is that for all the anti-Calvinistic sentiment in the SBC, the SBC is (thankfully) so large that there are still more Calvinistic churches in the SBC than there are churches in the conservative Presbyterian denominations combined. If you couple that with all the other Baptistic denominations that send folks to Southern, or look at Southern for grads, well"¦ you´ve got a goodly number of options open to you. Of course, you could always plant a church if you believe that is what God would have you do.

[Edited on 10-6-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 6, 2005)

Despite what Ben thinks, I know quite a great deal about Southern, its professors, the campus environment, etc. I spent more time around Southern people (and still do) than Boyce people. Most of the professors at Boyce teach at Southern. I have several - several - friends who are students at Southern Seminary currently, so I'm not "out of the loop" at all.

[Edited on 10-6-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]


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## doulosChristou (Oct 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Shawn, I spent three semesters on campus at Southern, if you'd like to hear my take (which is likely different than what Sola will say), email me.



Gabe,

If you have something to say about your experience at Boyce College or your second hand knowledge of Southern Seminary, please say it here in public rather than through private correspondence. I'd be interested in your estimation and evaluation. Particularly if you have specific criticisms to make, let it be brought into the light of day.

dC


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 7, 2005)

Gregory - I'm sure some folks would like to get your take on SBTS.
My view is based upon me coming to Southern as a midwesterner, a graduate of Moody Bible Institute, a member of the Evangelical Free Church of America who (after arriving) stepped foot in a SBC church for the first time... then became a member at a fairly Reformed Baptist church, then became a member of the PCA.
So my experiences and views are probably different than yours, and I'm sure that your views may be just as helpful, if not moreso, than mine.


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