# Gas Prices Redux



## VirginiaHuguenot (May 12, 2008)

http://www.puritanboard.com/f52/gas-prices-5703/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/how-high-your-gas-842/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/gas-prices-6184/

Old gas pumps can't handle ever-rising prices - Yahoo! News (May 12, 2008)


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## Herald (May 12, 2008)

I feel the cost of fuel hard. I am a salesman. I pay for all my own gas. The more gas goes up, the less I earn. I have to sell more or raise my prices. The option to sell more is not always there. Raising prices comes with a risk; that customers will do without or shop for alternatives. To offset the rising cost of gas we're driving less. We're also considering a food co-op and trimming expenses in other areas.


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## JBaldwin (May 12, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> I feel the cost of fuel hard. I am a salesman. I pay for all my own gas. The more gas goes up, the less I earn. I have to sell more or raise my prices. The option to sell more is not always there. Raising prices comes with a risk; that customers will do without or shop for alternatives. To offset the rising cost of gas we're driving less. We're also considering a food co-op and trimming expenses in other areas.



We have felt it here, too. What makes it difficult is the rising cost of food along with the gas. We have started going back to the outdoor market for fresh fruits and veggies where prices are better. We are also going to the local u-pick farms, buying in season fruits and veggies in bulk and freezing or canning them. We are blessed to live close enough to most of these types of places to make it worth our while. And Bill, we always have fresh eggs!


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## Ivan (May 12, 2008)

I am currently driving 84 miles a day to work. We are moving in about a month and my trip to work will be reduce to five miles a day. I presently drive an hour to get to my church. After we move the trip will take less than 20 minutes. 

That will be a significant savings in dollars and in my own physical energy. 

God is good.


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## Galatians220 (May 12, 2008)

Ivan said:


> I am currently driving 84 miles a day to work. We are moving in about a month and my trip to work will be reduce to five miles a day. I presently drive an hour to get to my church. After we move the trip will take less than 20 minutes.
> 
> That will be a significant savings in dollars and in my own physical energy.
> 
> God is good.


 
That IS good news, Pastor!!!! _(Thank You, Lord!) _

Margaret


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## Reformingstudent (May 12, 2008)

Maybe, Lord willing it won't be too long before the price drops back down to a more reasonable price. 

http://tinyurl.com/fgykg

Lehman brothers. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards


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## Reformingstudent (May 13, 2008)

It was at $3.64 here this afternoon when I went to pick up my son from school earlier today. It was JUST $3.57 here yesterday morning. I hate to see what it's going to be like tomorrow. 
Been thinking about going into the rickshaw businesses if I can convince my wife to be the runner. Don't think she'll go for that idea though.


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## Reformingstudent (May 13, 2008)

Hey, I think I just solved our illegal alien problem and our cheap transportation problem at the same time. Put the illegals to work pulling people in rickshaws. Pay them a decent wage like $3.50 per mile. We save gas, they get to work and stay here and we all live happily ever after.


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## BJClark (May 13, 2008)

JBaldwin;




> We have felt it here, too. What makes it difficult is the rising cost of food along with the gas. We have started going back to the outdoor market for fresh fruits and veggies where prices are better. We are also going to the local u-pick farms, buying in season fruits and veggies in bulk and freezing or canning them. We are blessed to live close enough to most of these types of places to make it worth our while. And Bill, we always have fresh eggs!



it jumped to like $3.75 a gallon here today.

It is hitting us hard as well, my husband planted me a garden last weekend, and granted we won't reap the benefits of that for a couple months..it will help some.

Something my husband and I have discussed in the past is locating a place to buy a side of beef, maybe going in with a couple other families, maybe save some money that way long term not having to buy as much so often..


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## Reformingstudent (May 13, 2008)

BJClark said:


> JBaldwin;
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Do you have a deep freezer? My wife and I have talked about investing in one when we get our stimulus check. You can put things like meats and vegetables up and freeze them so they will be on hand later when you need them.


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## Scott Shahan (May 13, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> http://www.puritanboard.com/f52/gas-prices-5703/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/how-high-your-gas-842/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/gas-prices-6184/
> 
> Old gas pumps can't handle ever-rising prices - Yahoo! News (May 12, 2008)



Those gas prices on that link "how high is your gas", that you posted are funny to read today. I wish we had those gas prices now. I saw $3.63 yesterday, it is a good thing that I am able to walk to work. My work is just a couple of blocks away from my house.


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## Quickened (May 13, 2008)

I've seen it at around $3.95. Some places are around .10 cheaper depending on where i drive.


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## Pilgrim Standard (May 13, 2008)

Reformingstudent said:


> Maybe, Lord willing it won't be too long before the price drops back down to a more reasonable price.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/fgykg
> 
> Lehman brothers. Report: Oil Bust in the Cards



I hope that your posting was a bit facetious since the Lehman brothers. Report that you posted from April 25 stated that $120 oil was not real. Last Fri we broke the $126 p/b barrier. 

I have to agree with Joshua though. It does appear that we are caught in a inflationary spiral fueled by big unnecessary wars, government overspending and consumer greed. The Masking of M3 numbers since March of '06 and the publication of the "false" core inflation rate don't help the analysis much though! Seriously, cutting out food, housing and energy and claiming that you have now calculated the “Core” inflation rate is a bit absurd, eh? 

Never the less, I thank God that the value of his Son’s atonement is sufficient for all and will lack nothing in value ever! Hey ladies and gentlemen, remember that we are rich beyond measure.


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## Robert Truelove (May 13, 2008)

I am quite certain we will never see 'low' gas prices again in any of our lifetimes. All of the analysts I have heard are saying the same thing.

I believe we will see gas to go $5.00+ per gallon within the next 3 years.

I'm beginning to think the steam engine wasn't such a bad deal after all. With the price of coal being so low, we could just pull up to the 'bin' and shovel (instead of pump) the fuel in. I could handle that. The only problem would be the pollution caused by all of the little smokestacks on our cars but I think it would be cool enough to see all those little smokestacks that I could live with the pollution.

And don't tell me that a car is too small for a reliable steam engine that gets great acceleration. Technology is all about miniaturization.


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## BJClark (May 13, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot;

Old gas pumps can't handle ever-rising prices - Yahoo! News (May 12, 2008)

it's not just replacing the pumps that are going to cause the problems, at least for the small mom & pop stores here in Florida. Laws have passed over the last few years requiring them to replace the underground tanks as well, upgrading to a meet new specifications.


Reformingstudent;



> Do you have a deep freezer? My wife and I have talked about investing in one when we get our stimulus check.



No, but we have two freezers, and as God provides, we can certainly donate some of the veggies to the church food bank if we don't have enough room, as there are others in our church we could share the blessing with.



> I am quite certain we will never see 'low' gas prices again in any of our lifetimes. All of the analysts I have heard are saying the same thing.



The only way we may be able to see lower gas prices is if America begins drilling off the coast of Florida (as Cuba is doing) and in Alaska, and ND...and build a few more refineries..


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## Contra_Mundum (May 13, 2008)

Paid 3.98 a gal last night. 20 gal tank = 80 bucks, to drive @ 350 miles, thither and yon.

I think they want us to "stay at home, shut up, and walk slowly, so we can monitor you."


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## fredtgreco (May 13, 2008)

joshua said:


> Even if it the price of gas goes down, it doesn't matter. The value of the dollar will continue to go lower and lower and lo ...



That's not true. The dollar may have already bottomed out.


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## TimV (May 13, 2008)

It's 4 bucks here. With half ton work trucks you used to figure the cost of operating them at 10 dollars per hour, which is gas, repairs, depreciation etc.. Now the true cost is probably closer to 20.


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## ReformedSinner (May 13, 2008)

The problem with gas prices are not just a USA problem, USA consumers have actually cut back on gas assumption ever since the gas price spike. It is a global problem. Countries like China, India, Brazil, and other countries that wants to become the next "USA" are heavily developing their industry and their people are getting richer (i.e. getting to live the American dream of 1 car per 2 people.) When it all boils down to is once again the simple principle of supply and demand: when demands heavily outweights supply you will have a price spike.

OPEC has already made it known they won't increase supply. Iraq is as unstable as it comes. Iran has said they think oil price should triple from the current level (that guy IS crazy), and Venezuela Prez Hugo Chavez has said he won't do anything to help "Satanic USA", and Russia has forced their oil industry to be virtually impossible to have additional investment in due to ridiculous taxations that makes it unprofitable to open up more oil supplies.

Of course USA we have the same issue. We won't allow Alaskan drilling, off-shore drilling, or any drilling, we won't allow alternative energy developments like gas, nuclear or coal, and the best we have to offer is "corn" - and what do you know, it drives up food prices as every farmer now would rather produce corn as fuel rather than food and in term caused a food shortage. Brilliant.

To put it simply: the world have to wake up and realize the current mind-set of economy (everybody tries to be the next USA) is not sustainable, the global resources simply do not and cannot sustain our current economical structure. We are still applying mostly 19th century economic philosophy on a world that is complete different than philosophers like Adam Smith and others can ever dream of.


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## ReformedSinner (May 13, 2008)

Oh by the way, for the first time ever it cost me $50 to fill up my tank that used to be no more than $25, ridiculous.

I used to drive 50 miles to my church to work one way, but gas prices has cost me $800 a month in gas alone, and on my already "pastoral" pastor salary I can barely offer decent meals to my family, so we're going to move to a shaft that's 5 min. from my church.


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## Contra_Mundum (May 13, 2008)

ReformedSinner said:


> To put it simply: the world have to wake up and realize the current mind-set of economy (everybody tries to be the next USA) is not sustainable, the global resources simply do not and cannot sustain our current economical structure. We are still applying mostly 19th century economic philosophy on a world that is complete different than philosophers like Adam Smith and others can ever dream of.



I disagree, not because this isn't a crisis, but where the blame is laid. This is being blamed on capitalism, but this is mistaken. We are NOT capitalist; we are fabian, socialist, and mercantilist.

In other words, little has changed except for the worse since Adam Smith's _critique_ of the prevailing mercantilist system back in the 18th century. The moderate freedom from govt regulation that was achieved, and led to greater all-around prosperity has been rolled back.

Big-corporate welfare kills. Wall Street corporations pay the govt to create barriers to entry, to protect them from competition, and then take back the cash in the form of govt rents, and the higher prices they can charge consumers. So, we pay them, and we pay taxes that eventually get to them routed through our masters (who live luxuriously on the huge salaries and expense accounts we pay them, and on their lavish gifts from the corporatists).

Distortions to the market are govts FAULT, and it certainly will not be fixing its own problems soon. First, it must destroy our currency, to sustain its parasitic existence. Then, it will try to make serfs of all of us.

Don't take my word for it. Read a history book.


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## Galatians220 (May 13, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Paid 3.98 a gal last night. 20 gal tank = 80 bucks, to drive @ 350 miles, thither and yon.
> 
> I think they want us to "stay at home, shut up, and walk slowly, so we can monitor you."


 
Exactly right. The whole state of MI is in a dire position because we've only two refineries... Here in "Motown," we're paying right around $4.00/gal. now. I'd walk places or ride a bike, but I've got a chronically "mini-fractured," necrotic left hip that can't be replaced right now... So I'm stuck at home, pretty much, working from my computer and *bothering the daylights* out of this board...  

Got some close family ties via their jobs to what's really going on & my ear to the ground... Fact of the matter is, Exxon Mobil is really nothing more than a holding company and it's been that for some time. We're being choked to literal economic death by the likes of Chavez, the Chi-Coms, the Iranians, the Russians, etc. We should have seen this coming years ago. Some people did, but their warnings went unheeded. Now we're paying for it.

We should have drilled in Alaska *years* ago... 

Margaret


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## Thomas2007 (May 13, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> ReformedSinner said:
> 
> 
> > To put it simply: the world have to wake up and realize the current mind-set of economy (everybody tries to be the next USA) is not sustainable, the global resources simply do not and cannot sustain our current economical structure. We are still applying mostly 19th century economic philosophy on a world that is complete different than philosophers like Adam Smith and others can ever dream of.
> ...



Bingo!



Contra-Mundum said:


> In other words, little has changed except for the worse since Adam Smith's _critique_ of the prevailing mercantilist system back in the 18th century. The moderate freedom from govt regulation that was achieved, and led to greater all-around prosperity has been rolled back.



Double Bingo!



Contra_Mundum said:


> Big-corporate welfare kills. Wall Street corporations pay the govt to create barriers to entry, to protect them from competition, and then take back the cash in the form of govt rents, and the higher prices they can charge consumers. So, we pay them, and we pay taxes that eventually get to them routed through our masters (who live luxuriously on the huge salaries and expense accounts we pay them, and on their lavish gifts from the corporatists).



Triple Bingo!



Contra_Mundum said:


> Distortions to the market are govts FAULT, and it certainly will not be fixing its own problems soon. First, it must destroy our currency, to sustain its parasitic existence. Then, it will try to make serfs of all of us.
> 
> Don't take my word for it. Read a history book.



Give this man a cigar!


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## Grymir (May 13, 2008)

Contra Mundum Mega-Dittos!!


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## toddpedlar (May 13, 2008)

Galatians220 said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> > Paid 3.98 a gal last night. 20 gal tank = 80 bucks, to drive @ 350 miles, thither and yon.
> ...



Having refineries nearby (or having none at all in the whole state) doesn't necessarily mean that gas will be cheaper... quite honestly I believe it has very little if anything to do with the price you actually pay. I grew up 5 miles from one of the larger refineries on the West Coast, and our gas was always much more expensive than many places east of the mountains despite the proximity to the refinery. My parents typically pay about 50c per gallon more than we do, and they must have 6 or 7 refineries within a couple hours of them (whereas we have one within 3 hours, and no more that are closer than 6 hrs away)


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## Thomas2007 (May 13, 2008)

Gas is now $ 3.80 here today, but I was fortunate enough to buy gas last week for $ 1.66 a gallon. Here's how. My wife asked me to stop and pick up some items at a grocery store which added gas pumps a while back. One item they had on sale was Kool Aid at 10¢ a package (good deal). However, they sometimes have specials attached to their sales where you get a credit on gas - in this case you got 1¢ for each package of Kool Aid. That 1¢ is applicable for 15 gallons or a 15¢ discount on gas for each 10¢ package of Kool Aid.

I drank deeply and bought four boxes of Kool Aid, 200 packages, which gave me a $ 2.00 per gallon discount up to 15 gallons. Hence, I spent $ 20.00 for Kool Aid, which is normally 6 packages for $ 1.00, and got $ 30.00 off my next gas purchase. So, I bought 15 gallons of gas for $ 1.66 a gallon - sad part is I didn't feel like it was a good deal, it was just two/three years ago that this was the price for gas, and I distinctively remember thinking that was ridiculous.


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## toddpedlar (May 13, 2008)

joshua said:


> You guys keep really messing up your quotes, making it appear that certain people said something they did not say.



There's something funky going on with the quote system lately... it isn't just our incompetence...


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## CovenantalBaptist (May 13, 2008)

An interesting article  published yesterday reporting on the real state of oil reserves. 

I feel the gas price crunch as a student and I really sympathize with those who are big travellers for work and the cost of food prices. I pray that the Lord will help us all to make ends meet for His purposes. 

At the same time, I think it is important to remind ourselves that we are better than we deserve and we have a Sovereign Creator God that made as much oil and other raw materials that we will ever need. Either we'll run out of it, suffer some and adapt, or, just maybe He'll just come back again and renew the heavens and earth! 

I'm not trying to be pious here, but let me encourage us that there are free evangelistic opportunities to be had here brothers and sisters. When your non-Christian neighbour is wringing their hands about everything getting worse, there is the opportunity to show the Gospel in powerful ways in how we handle "bad news." This is what is attractive about Christianity. We have no need to fear "bad news". We live in the hands of a Sovereign Creator God who is Master and Sustainer of the Universe we live in. He designed the worldwide flood to create the oil reserves (or placed them there at Creation - who knows exactly - but the fact is they are there - a miracle of His providence). He has given us remarkable intelligence and ingenuity to create the internal combustion engine and now other "green" alternatives are appearing through His gifts in us. 

It may sound a bit trivial, but God is in the mundane details of our lives like gas prices and I'm so very thankful for that. Let's see this very real issue in light of the Gospel. It reminds us that we are not independant or self-sufficient as it reminds us that we need the Lord to provide for our needs every day even as we labor to fulfill our obligations.


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## Poimen (May 13, 2008)

Gas is about $5.00 a gallon here when you do the conversion. 

I have small car and drive as little as possible (thought that is easy to do when you place of work is 500 ft from your front door!).

Whenever I go out I make sure it is a place I know someone else is going and ride with them and never offer to pay for gas - even if it means opening the door and exiting the vehicle as we are barreling down the highway so I don't have to hear the uncomfortable and annoying discussion about 'when are you going to start paying for gas?'....


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## Craig (May 13, 2008)

Reformingstudent said:


> Do you have a deep freezer? My wife and I have talked about investing in one when we get our stimulus check. You can put things like meats and vegetables up and freeze them so they will be on hand later when you need them.



My wife and I just bought a deep freezer 2 weeks ago. We also chipped in with some family and church members on an entire cow...our portion (20lbs) was $40.

We are also buying food from Angel Food ministries...I encourage anyone near a church participating in this to buy the food...it is cheap, and it doesn't matter if you're poor or not...everyone is encouraged to buy it. 

Gas jumped this morning from $3.70 to $3.95 here.


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## jfschultz (May 13, 2008)

Poimen said:


> Gas is about $5.00 a gallon here when you do the conversion.



Consider, the price for your gas and our gas is about the same. The difference between USA, Canada, and Europe is TAXES!


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## Virginia Marine (May 13, 2008)

jfschultz said:


> Poimen said:
> 
> 
> > Gas is about $5.00 a gallon here when you do the conversion.
> ...



Just to make you all ill, when I was stationed in Kuwait last year I paid about $.75/gallon. Most Kuwaiti's complain about even this small price as up until a few years ago, gas was free in Kuwait...


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## ericfromcowtown (May 13, 2008)

The last time I filled my car, it cost $1.25 / Litre, which equates to $5.68 / gallon. Rumour has it that the price is going to spike up to $1.50 / Litre at the end of the week, in time for the May long weekend.

We're (Alberta) is sitting on the second largest oil reserves in the world, after only Saudi Arabia, but you'd never know that at the pumps.


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## Hippo (May 13, 2008)

As has been mentioned a massive influence on oil prices has been the structural weakness of the dollar and that will not change in the medium term. You really cannot blame the Saudis for wanting to preserve the purchasing power of their exports.

I do think that in five years or so we may see some hybrid form of pricing currency for oil which would be interesting in all sorts of ways.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (May 26, 2008)

Oil was discovered in Persia (Iran) 100 years ago (May 26, 1908).

May 26, 1908: Mideast Oil Discovered -- There Will Be Blood


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## ChristianTrader (May 26, 2008)

The Coming Collapse of Oil Prices by Dom Armentano


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## staythecourse (May 26, 2008)

> We're (Alberta) is sitting on the second largest oil reserves in the world, after only Saudi Arabia, but you'd never know that at the pumps.



That's news to me. Why aren't the wells a-pumpin'? I would think that (as happens in the Mid West when poor wells are started back up when oil prices go up) that wells would be built and started up.


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## Reformingstudent (May 26, 2008)

Reformingstudent said:


> It was at $3.64 here this afternoon when I went to pick up my son from school earlier today. It was JUST $3.57 here yesterday morning. I hate to see what it's going to be like tomorrow.
> Been thinking about going into the rickshaw businesses if I can convince my wife to be the runner. Don't think she'll go for that idea though.



Today, 5-26-08 It's up to $3.85 here and rising with no end in sight.


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## staythecourse (May 26, 2008)

Is this site news to you folks?

It's where people post gas prices for their area. I have used it when traveling across the state for business and filling up at cheap stations.


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## jaybird0827 (May 27, 2008)

If the price of gas goes down, it will go up.

If the price of gas goes up, it will go up again.


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## ericfromcowtown (May 27, 2008)

staythecourse said:


> That's news to me. Why aren't the wells a-pumpin'? I would think that (as happens in the Mid West when poor wells are started back up when oil prices go up) that wells would be built and started up.



The vast majority of Alberta's oil reserves are in the form of bitumen. Think hard molases that won't flow unless the viscosity is lowered. You either have to mine it, if it's close enough to the surface, or lower its viscosity insitu usually through the introduction of steam, if it isn't. In either case, it's much more expensive to produce and refine per barrell than the sweet crude flowing out of Ghawar in Saudi Arabia. At $20 or $40 oil much of the reserves were uneconomic or only marginally economic. At $135 oil, a lot of it is suddenly economic to produce and there is a boom here in Alberta of lands being leased and projects being anounced. You need a lot more lead time to develop these projects, so even though hundreds of millions of dollars have been invested in some of these projects many are still years away from producing. 

V.P. Cheney was up here a few months ago to tour some of the projects, so evidently Washington also recognizes the oil sands as strategic resource for the future.


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## staythecourse (May 28, 2008)

ericfromcowtown said:


> staythecourse said:
> 
> 
> > That's news to me. Why aren't the wells a-pumpin'? I would think that (as happens in the Mid West when poor wells are started back up when oil prices go up) that wells would be built and started up.
> ...



Then you gotta think that as long as gas prices stay outrageously high in _comparison to all other things_ these wells still make sense to get going. I mean if the return on investments with bitumen makes sense over all other typer of investments you'll see people waste the effort and money for a potential return.


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## etexas (May 28, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> joshua said:
> 
> 
> > Even if it the price of gas goes down, it doesn't matter. The value of the dollar will continue to go lower and lower and lo ...
> ...


I agree, contrary to what some people think the other industrial nations do NOT want the dollar to fall too far (a little bit is fine for Europe and China and others) but for it to fall too far would be as big a financial disaster to these nations as it would be to us.  (As a silly example think about NIKE, most of the shoes are made in China, however the biggest market is the USA, they do NOT want to loose their market base, I could give dozens of examples with different commodities and goods from other nations, this was just random to make the point that in this 21st Century world of international trade, many foreign nations, whether or not they like us, have in past, and will continue to pour money into the US , their own little version of Buy American, they have not much of a choice if they wish to remain viable economic powers, and they do.


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