# A sad state of affairs about reading



## Organgrinder (Feb 10, 2012)

Hello all,

The favorite secular movie thread was interesting and fun. However it brings up to me a situation that my co-workers and I deal with every day. 

I am by occupation a public librarian. My branch library is located in a low to moderate income area of town. The thing that astounds us is that we see so many patrons who don't read anything. They are in and out constantly getting more movies. In fact we have some families who take out 20 to 25 movies twice a week. Some also maintain long lists of requested movies. Duw to low computer literacy rates many need us to make the request for them. Many times the number of movies surpasses the number of books in the return bins. 

Sorry about the rant but we miss the days when folks read books. I miss getting real reference questions. 

I do try to understand that some folks don't have anything else but their movies. It is sad though that some don't do things like read, learn an instrument, do arts and crafts or even go to church. There has to more to life than watching one movie after another.

Thanks for hearing me out. Any other librarians in here?


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## Andres (Feb 10, 2012)

I feel your rant. I doubt many on the PB can sympathize with non-readers, though. Do you ever recommend books to any of your patrons?


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## Tim (Feb 10, 2012)

And also, libraries have become "the place" for free internet.


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## rookie (Feb 10, 2012)

I agree with this....it's reflected in their ability to write. How often even at work, we log tickets of our calls, and many people don't know how to spell. But they all brag about their quest in Call of Duty, Modern Warfare, Skyrim, Nintendo Wii.......

They are all very well educated in things that don't matter.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Feb 10, 2012)

> "They are all very well educated in things that don't matter."


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## Tripel (Feb 10, 2012)

The situation stated in the OP is indeed sad, but we can't determine a decline in reading based upon traffic in a library. Times are changing, and libraries are not as necessary as they once were. The internet gives us access to hosts of information that used to require a library. And the rise of the ebook is revolutionizing the way people read and how they access books.

From what I can tell, physical libraries are mostly used by: 1) people needing to access the internet, 2) students doing research, 3) families checking out children's books, 4) people renting movies.


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## Scottish Lass (Feb 10, 2012)

Daniel's right. I used to be a weekly visitor to our local library. Now I can check out e-books from the library at home, so if I went in, movies would be the only reason.


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## gordo (Feb 10, 2012)

Daniel and Anna make some good points. There is less and less people using libraries now. I am a huge fan of reading and I have been to a library once in the last 10 years. So as Daniel says, many of the people that do use libraries are much of the time, not readers. But readers are still out there.


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## SRoper (Feb 10, 2012)

I sometimes check the library catalog online, and when they don't have what I want, I order it from Amazon.


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## jogri17 (Feb 10, 2012)

I will just leave a little note of encouragement. I grew up in the States and my mom, sister, and I would always go to the libray to check out BOOKS. As times grew on we went there less and less given the internet. However, now that I'm in University, my favourite place to go is to local public libraries. I rent books from the University library if possible (sometimes I cannot given they are reference books) and take a big bag to a local public library to work. Given I live in a French environment and the library is clsoe to the school they all know me as ''l'anglo'' and I can help kids with English (wow, I'm 24 and i'm callling 12-18 kids... crazy!). One of the problems why fewer people rent books from the libray is that well they're older books and people naturally have a prejudice against them and want bestsellers. Perhaps a display of reccomended authors can help encourage reading?


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## Fly Caster (Feb 10, 2012)

It makes me a bit proud to say that all the librarians in our city library know my ten year old by name. As do most in a neighboring library 25 miles away.

She has never checked out a movie.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Feb 10, 2012)

The issue that I have with my local library system, is that is it never open when I have the time certain evenings to use it.


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## Constantlyreforming (Feb 10, 2012)

I have my MLS, but don't currently work in a library. I had the same frustrations, but they are inevitable. THe purpose of a library has changed over the past 100 years. Where books provided both entertainment and information, some of that can be found in movies. Libraries now are equally places for entertainment, education and literacy. Probably in that order.

---------- Post added at 03:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:55 PM ----------

Libraries have to change in order to be relevant. The library in my town where I worked has actually seen it's circulation stats increase in the years since the internet boom...rather than decrease. Why? They provide a place where people can use the internet for "free" (tax dollars does not technically equal free, but you know what I mean). Then, they encourage folks to check out books when they are there.


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## jwithnell (Feb 10, 2012)

What concerns me is the loss of what I call accidental learning. I went to the library for a specific book last week, and discovered that the one just next to it appeared far more interesting.

The same thing is true when reading a newspaper or consulting an encyclopedia or dictionary. An article I would never have looked up on the internet on my own might catch my eye and lead me into all kinds of new subjects to explore.


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## Philip (Feb 10, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> What concerns me is the loss of what I call accidental learning. I went to the library for a specific book last week, and discovered that the one just next to it appeared far more interesting.
> 
> The same thing is true when reading a newspaper or consulting an encyclopedia or dictionary. An article I would never have looked up on the internet on my own might catch my eye and lead me into all kinds of new subjects to explore.



This happens to me, actually, on Wikipedia (sad, I know).


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## Edward (Feb 10, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> What concerns me is the loss of what I call accidental learning. I went to the library for a specific book last week, and discovered that the one just next to it appeared far more interesting.



Amazon suggests other books when you are looking at a selection there; and when you are on the internet, you can click on links that catch your eye. So the 'accidental learning' is still there, it just happens a little differently now. 

And with Gutenberg, Project Gutenberg - free ebooks you can access material that you'd never find this side of a major research library.


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## lynnie (Feb 10, 2012)

Hub and I are librarians in our third church now. Two calvinist Baptist, one PCA.

People don't read much. There is far more interest in CDs ( Piper, Keller) etc, or DVDs ( CCEF, Sproul, Piper).

I share your sadness.


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## Pergamum (Feb 10, 2012)

I think we are reading more than probably any previous generation on the planet.


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## RobertPGH1981 (Feb 10, 2012)

I never read anything before I became a Christian. For entertainment I would play video games and watch TV. I do remember instances when I tried to pick up a book but I had a really hard time concentrating on what I was reading. I think it was due to television and video games. I noticed now that I have been reading for several years and noticed that it has become easier to concentrate. Until you are diligent, and overcome those hurdles, reading takes too much effort for somebody that would be rather told what to think. Television uses less brain power than actually thinking, so I am sorry to say that is most likely the cause. 

Its funny, I remember reading a book from an old Reformer, and he was saying something about reading for entertainment is wasting time. Sort of how I might feel if I decided to play my XBox360 or watch a funny television show. The funny thing is when I read I feel like I am accomplishing something. 





Pergamum said:


> I think we are reading more than probably any previous generation on the planet.



If you want to say we read more today that may be true in quantity, but the quality has certainly diminished over time. You can tell because those who wrote in the past were much more eloquent than those who write present day. Their communication was heavily dependent on their abilities to communicate through their writings. Today communication exists in many forms Radio, TV, Internet Videos ect...


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## Pergamum (Feb 10, 2012)

Robert, 

I would challenge that - I believe literacy is at an all-time worldwide high.


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## kvanlaan (Feb 10, 2012)

I would have to say that authors' capacity for eloquence seems to have diminished. Not necessarily because they don't have the ability for it any more, but because no one has the time. C U LTR has taken the place of many more appropriate closing salutations. Not merely as a progressive option, but to the point where any attempt at eloquence seems to be an unnecessary complication of the means of communication and is frowned upon. We are in a very odd corner of the internet here on the PB for this and a number of other reasons, but it is sad to see that society in general has ditched the pursuit of higher literacy as a waste of time.


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## RobertPGH1981 (Feb 10, 2012)

Pergamum, 

I am thinking more about the quality of the writings rather than the ability to read them. I believe you are right about that more have the ability to read, but they choose not to read. They read things that do not challenge them and it doesn't require them to be an active thinker.

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kvanlaan said:


> Not merely as a progressive option, but to the point where any attempt at eloquence seems to be an unnecessary complication of the means of communication and is frowned upon. We are in a very odd corner of the internet here on the PB for this and a number of other reasons, but it is sad to see that society in general has ditched the pursuit of higher literacy as a waste of time.



 We definitely are an odd bunch..


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## JM (Feb 10, 2012)

I have worked in a library for almost 20 years now and have seen a lot of changes.


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## Philip (Feb 10, 2012)

I think that thinking reading individuals as a percentage of society have not decreased. 

I also think that looking at this as Americans skews the vision a bit. Our national discourse is rather sedate and boring compared to that of, say, Britain, where the politicians have to be able to think on their feet during debates. I think that a truly great writer or speaker here in the States would be capable of doing a lot of damage---Obama is (frankly) rather a mediocre orator, In my humble opinion.


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## jfhutson (Feb 11, 2012)

I would think advocates of home-school/Christian schools would place libraries in the domain of the church rather than state. What does the average church library say about the value we put on learning, and where did we ever get the idea that providing free books was a function of the state?


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## JM (Feb 11, 2012)

The average church library is filled with Joyce Meyer, Tim LaHaye and Janet Oke.

---------- Post added at 05:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 AM ----------

Two title to pick up at your local library:

Amazon.com: The Lost Art of Reading: Why Books Matter in a Distracted Time (9781570616709): David L. Ulin: Books

http://www.amazon.com/Shallows-What-Internet-Doing-Brains/dp/0393072223


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## bookslover (Feb 11, 2012)

D. A. Carson has complained for years about what he calls "the mythical well-read Christian layman."

Also, have any of you noticed that libraries are no longer the quiet places they used to be. Librarians, in the Olden Times, were constantly shushing patrons. That's flown out the window, I guess.


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## gordo (Feb 11, 2012)

A lot of people that read a lot just don't see a use for a library anymore. E-readers are a book lovers dream nowadays. Yesterday I bought the Spurgeon Compilation of over 60 books and sermons for $3.99 on my Kindle. Even new books are very reasonably priced on e-readers. I can't imagine going to a library to find a book when it's most likely just a few fingertaps away on my Kindle. My


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## Zach (Feb 11, 2012)

P. F. Pugh said:


> jwithnell said:
> 
> 
> > What concerns me is the loss of what I call accidental learning. I went to the library for a specific book last week, and discovered that the one just next to it appeared far more interesting.
> ...



Don't worry, Philip. I think it happens to EVERYBODY on Wikipedia.


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## Philip (Feb 11, 2012)

jfhutson said:


> I would think advocates of home-school/Christian schools would place libraries in the domain of the church rather than state. What does the average church library say about the value we put on learning, and where did we ever get the idea that providing free books was a function of the state?



Libraries are educational institutions and as such are a public good and may be sponsored by Church, state, or other mediating institution. I know of many colleges that allow members of the public to use their library facilities.



gordo said:


> I can't imagine going to a library to find a book when it's most likely just a few fingertaps away on my Kindle.



To me this is beside the point. A library is about books, yes, but it's also about providing a public area for study. This service, though, is starting to be provided more and more by coffee shops.


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## Brother John (Feb 12, 2012)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> > "They are all very well educated in things that don't matter."



Vanity of vanities brother

---------- Post added at 01:08 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:04 AM ----------




JM said:


> The average church library is filled with Joyce Meyer, Tim LaHaye and Janet Oke.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:19 AM ----------
> 
> ...




Speaks to the sad state of our churches

---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:08 AM ----------




bookslover said:


> D. A. Carson has complained for years about what he calls "the mythical well-read Christian layman."



I will have to look up some of his writings on this, very interesting quote. I remember the first presbyterian church my wife and I joined there were many members who were well read and reading. We were able to tell because of the conversations we would have with them. The conversations were actually more than just their jobs and whatever sport was in season. We really enjoyed sitting down over lunch or coffee and talking about theology and what we were reading in Scripture. We loved spending time in meaningful conversation with them.


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## DMcFadden (Feb 12, 2012)

Change hurts.

In my youth libraries were an essential. But so were bank tellers, payphones, and repair kits for the rubber innertubes on your car. But, when you can have thousands of books on your computer -- for FREE, it changes things. I have not needed the public library in decades and consider myself kind of well read. My brother has been a law librarian for several decades and tells tales of how the law students are using the library differently from when he started just out of MLS school.

Also, we truly have moved to a more visual/video society. Documentaries and media rich computer based texts, invite us to "interact" with information in ways different from the older paradigm of a strictly linear, written text. I am amazed at colleges that encourage students to get their texts in digital form and are in the process of getting rid of paper based books entirely. Many of those texts go well beyond the PDF. They have built in interactivity features that allow for quick recourse to video and audio resources.

With Kindle, iPads, and tablets, you can have huge libraries at your fingertips. Just last night I was able to download WordSearch for iPad for free. Now, in combination with the Kindle app and Logos iPad app, it is possible to have gazillions of books available on my uber thin iPad. Amazing!

Ask the newspaper people what changing paradigms have done to them! Print papers are in continual decline. 

I lament the loss of a slower paced culture where reading a newspaper and devoting oneself to a good book were built into the warp and woof of life. But, those days are as far behind us as the time when you had to look for a payphone or worry about getting to the bank in time to deposit your paycheck.

in my opinion, the church is yet to exploit fully the upside of this digital revolution. Sometimes, you need a good sustained argument, not a quick set of pictures. What substitute can there be for Buchannan on justification or Owen on atonement? My prayer is that the iPads, Androids, Kindles, and Nooks will be used to access some of the great ideas found in the great books.

By the way, thanks to my handy dandy Logitech keyboard/aluminum top shell case, this post was composed on the iPad.


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## gordo (Feb 12, 2012)

Good post Dennis. Everyone likes to remember the good old days. Even me, just over 30 years of age, can think back to how things were when I was a kid and can shake my head at some of the things that are the norm today. My parents were the same and their parents too. It's an endless cycle.


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## JM (Feb 12, 2012)

The new technology also changes how people think. They scan and skim and feel they don't have time to spend on reading long, drawn out arguments. It also seems the attention span of this "net" generation is much shorter.


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## BJClark (Feb 14, 2012)

My husband prefers audio books, he has to travel around the state with his job a few days a month, so I frequent the library to get those as opposed to paying to download them, or trying to find one he would actually enjoy listening to. 

My daughter spends hours at the school library studying, but when my daughters were younger they loved to go check books out at the public library. But, when they were younger their elementary school had reading competitions--for every 10 books they read they got a prize and whoever from each grade read the most books by the end of the year got to take a limo ride to local restaurant for lunch. They posted pictures of the kids in the school library and around the hallways with the number of books they read. They made a HUGE deal to encourage reading. The local restaurants and stores got involved donating items like dinners, desserts, gift cards a free candy bar or coke at the local gas station. But that was a small town--and it would be great to see larger towns and cities doing something similar.

I can remember as a child the libraries had summer reading programs--we'd ride out bike to the library just to check books out. 

The local library here has movie days and art shows (local artist) have local musicians come in and play and various things trying to draw people in. But I must say, they also encourage the kids to check out books when they come in for the free movies.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 14, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> What concerns me is the loss of what I call accidental learning. I went to the library for a specific book last week, and discovered that the one just next to it appeared far more interesting.
> 
> The same thing is true when reading a newspaper or consulting an encyclopedia or dictionary. An article I would never have looked up on the internet on my own might catch my eye and lead me into all kinds of new subjects to explore.



Indeed! Perhaps it's better termed, "Providential learning?"  The same goes for brick and mortar bookstores too, in my opinion. Amazon and others will offer up a few suggestions, but I find that it's not quite the same.


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## JoyFullMom (Feb 14, 2012)

We are a family of 8 avid readers who consistently maxes out our 50 book limit on our library card. Two of my children own Kindles. One because it takes up less space in her college dorm than her beloved book collection she left at home for this season of life and the other because she wanted to take advantage of all the free classics since she cannot purchase the actual *books* at this point in her life. However, she recently read two books on her Kindle that she HAD to own and went hunting for them in the Goodwill bookstore. 

All that to say, each has it's place in our home.  

As a side note, I am reading an interesting book called "The Shallows: What the Internet is Doing to our Brain" by Nicholas Carr. I'm not a "throw the baby out with the bath water" person but he makes some good points. 

Going to the library or a good used book store are amongst our favorite things to do.


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## Somerset (Feb 15, 2012)

The local library was a really important part of my childhood. My father has never been much of a reader, as the eldest of 11 his schooling was patchy. My mother was allowed to join Taunton library early, age 6, as her parents were too poor to buy books. The books were in locked glass doored cases and browsing was strongly discouraged. 75 years later she still borrows up to 12 books a week. We never had much money when I was growing up, so it was the local library for me. I could borrow 4 books at a time, but always finished them in one session. I made much use of the library during my first two degree courses, but by the last one it was on line all the way. This was probably just as well as the university library was noisier than the student bar. Whenever I move, joining the local library is right at the top of the to do list.

I too am concerned about the impact on line resources have on how we think. Schoolchildren today have enormous amounts of information available for projects - but printing off loads of stuff and roughly cutting and pasting is not helping you learn. I always think that one source properly used is better than a dozen skimmed.


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## christiana (Feb 15, 2012)

I read no fiction and when I go to the library these days it likely would be for a book on quilting. When it comes to the puritans and/or reformed theology I want to own the book, mark it up and read it over and over. When I was a child I was a regular at the library and encouraged all my six children to frequent the library as well. Those who are in the doctrines of grace choose to own their books as I do and often when a book is missing I'm pleased my daughter is reading it! I pray the day comes when all my children have a hunger and thirst for righteousness and are avid readers of those great doctrines of grace!


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## Eoghan (Feb 15, 2012)

I have stopped using the library due to punitive fines. When the book is not returned a quick text should be sent. It is not that long a go that Her Majesties Income Tax Inspectors were convicted of not sending out tax return reminders until it was too late! I can't help think that the libraries do the same. 

Libraries also focus on keeping "new" books on the shelves. This can lead them to discard perfectly good books. Money seems to go on computers and DVD's not books. 
The bookbinding of useful journals such as WHICH has ceased and loose copies are damaged and stolen. I also see a noticeable decline in magazines on display.


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## Edward (Feb 15, 2012)

Eoghan said:


> I have stopped using the library due to punitive fines. When the book is not returned a quick text should be sent.



No sympathy from me. Failure to exercise personal responsibility should have a price. And the taxpayers shouldn't have to pay it for you.


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