# Mars Hill & Emergent



## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

I once saw this video by a man Rob Bell who is associated with a church near Grand Rapids, MI. The video series is called "Nooma" - very well produced and they are not free to the public. Actually I saw two - one was about the necessity of silence and the other was about forgiveness and never being too far from God (can't be bad enough that God doesn't love you anyway). 

On the Mars Hill website, Mars Hill, I have read their theological statement, mission statements etc. I have heard that they are an "emergent church." Has anyone else had experience with Mars Hill church who live in Michigan? Does anyone else know about Rob Bell? 

If emergent, they sure hide it well.


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## LawrenceU (Sep 11, 2008)

Emergent to the core. A lot of that Nooma stuff is heretical.


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## Reformed Baptist (Sep 11, 2008)

Irish Calvinist » Blog Archive » Rob Bell makes me angry: a pastoral response to Velvet Elvis
Article title "Rob Bell makes me angry: a pastoral response to Velvet Elvis" 

Sounds to me like the man is a heretic.


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

After I saw the latter NOOMA video, it didn't make any sense. The child has done something in violation of their parents rules - stole a little play ball. The child runs upstairs and hides under the covers for >1hr until his dad, Mr. Bell, comes home. Wife explains, yada, yada, yada, dad goes upstairs to the kid in the bed. Dad explains to the son that there is nothing that you can do that will ever stop me from loving you. All is well. 

The son never repented, stated that he was sorry or otherwise about stealing the ball. The ball was not returned, you get the point. The dad is stating that he just forgives his son without his son repenting or acknowledging his wrong. Just the fact that the kid was scared enough to hide for over an hour was enough. There was no legal transaction to remit the sin of the theft. Mind you, Jesus was not brought up once during this whole 10-some minute video. 

Yet, these people pass themselves off as a church?


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 11, 2008)

I have been there. One Sabbath last winter, my little church was closed due to 100 inches of snow (exaggeration). So we went to Mars Hill to 'experience' it. It was huge and very post modern. The sermon was about how Darwin was on 'our team' because he said that he experienced God. 

Very odd. 

And yes, they are emergent to the core. Read Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith. Here is a good review/criticism of it.


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I have been there. One Sabbath last winter, my little church was closed due to 100 inches of snow (exaggeration). So we went to Mars Hill to 'experience' it. It was huge and very post modern. The sermon was about how Darwin was on 'our team' because he said that he experienced God.
> 
> Very odd.
> 
> And yes, they are emergent to the core. Read Velvet Elvis: Repainting the Christian Faith. Here is a good review/criticism of it.



If I read it, would it be time I can never get back? 
Was the name of Jesus used there, the trinity, repentence?


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## ManleyBeasley (Sep 11, 2008)

I read "Velvet Elvis" and much of it was disturbing. He said that disproving the virgin birth (though he says he believes in it) would not change Christianity in any serious way, which shows how important the scripture is to him (nada mucho). He also said doctrine was not hard and immovable like a brick wall but bendable like springs on a trampoline (he tried to use the reformation to prove this). LIBERAL.

On one of his Nooma videos he re-interprets the story of Jesus and Peter walking on water. He says Jesus' response "you of little faith..", to Peter sinking wasn't Him actually saying Peter didn't trust Jesus enough but that Peter didn't trust himself (Peter) enough. He then went on to explain how amazing it is that God trusts us! HERESY.

Watch that guy he's sneaky!


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## CatechumenPatrick (Sep 11, 2008)

I too have read Velvet Elvis; even more unfortunitly, I've also seen every Nooma video and went through the group-discussion questions (you can find them online--they are quite unsettling). See, my former college fellowship jumped on a lot of band-wagons, espeically ones that appeal to the vanity of my generation (Emergent productions and teachings, for example).


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 11, 2008)

Moderators: Do you think that this is an appropriate forum for this post? Wouldn't philosophy or even coffee shop be more appropriate than cults/wr?


Just a thought


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> Moderators: Do you think that this is an appropriate forum for this post? Wouldn't philosophy or even coffee shop be more appropriate than cults/wr?
> 
> 
> Just a thought



You should just keep on thinking.... 

If it is so much heresy, why wouldn't it be a cult? They have fast words, fast church, slick and modern, no orthodoxy...


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 11, 2008)

Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.



Please expound your thoughts on this with regard to Mars Hill. Thank you!


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## ManleyBeasley (Sep 11, 2008)

Mark Driscoll said that in his opinion the emergent guys are at "best" liberals and at worst a cult. Keep in mind he knew these guys back in the 90s before they were writing "books".


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## ManleyBeasley (Sep 11, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> Philippians 1:15-18 Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18 What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.



I don't think Paul meant what you are saying here. He was talking about people who were preaching the gospel accurately but with wrong motives. The accuracy of Rob Bell's preaching is what is in question. When refering to false teachers Paul said "I wish they would emasulate themselves"...He aslo called them "dogs".


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

There is a huge emergent church here in Minneapolis too. Solomon's Porch - a holistic, missional, christian community. No sermon or service time - they have weekly gatherings in the evening on Sunday. Doug Pagitt is the leader there - big name in the emergent "cult." 

I don't see a true God being preached there. I don't see a true God being worshiped, praised or glorified there. Their message is love but with little talk of the depravity. What are they being saved from if they don't know that they are in bondage to sin and need repentance and that there is a legal transaction that occurred with Christ to make them redeemed? I don't see these things. God is love but God cannot only be love or else His love would be meaningless. God's wrath against us needs to be drilled into the head of the unregenerate, obstinate, rebellious mind to full understanding before Christ will look any bit good and wonderful. Otherwise, the love is not for saving, but for being good people while on earth - emergent.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 11, 2008)

Where would the emergent church be without Bethel and Fuller? Most of there leaders came from one or the other.


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## ManleyBeasley (Sep 11, 2008)

FrielWatcher said:


> There is a huge emergent church here in Minneapolis too. Solomon's Porch - a holistic, missional, christian community. No sermon or service time - they have weekly gatherings in the evening on Sunday. Doug Pagitt is the leader there - big name in the emergent "cult."
> 
> I don't see a true God being preached there. I don't see a true God being worshiped, praised or glorified there. Their message is love but with little talk of the depravity. What are they being saved from if they don't know that they are in bondage to sin and need repentance and that there is a legal transaction that occurred with Christ to make them redeemed? I don't see these things. God is love but God cannot only be love or else His love would be meaningless. God's wrath against us needs to be drilled into the head of the unregenerate, obstinate, rebellious mind to full understanding before Christ will look any bit good and wonderful. Otherwise, the love is not for saving, but for being good people while on earth - emergent.



Pagitt is one of the main emergent guys. He may be worse than McClaren.


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## panta dokimazete (Sep 11, 2008)

I am sorry if I missed it, but ya'll are drawing a distinction between the Driscoll Mars Hill and the Rob Bell Mars Hill, right?


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## Pilgrim (Sep 11, 2008)

panta dokimazete said:


> I am sorry if I missed it, but ya'll are drawing a distinction between the Driscoll Mars Hill and the Rob Bell Mars Hill, right?



I think you missed it.


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## panta dokimazete (Sep 11, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> panta dokimazete said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry if I missed it, but ya'll are drawing a distinction between the Driscoll Mars Hill and the Rob Bell Mars Hill, right?
> ...


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 11, 2008)

Big...difference between Driscoll and Bell. All that needs to be said. 

It's really sad because Solomon's Porch was once a real church. I don't know what denomination but it looks like an old run-of-the-mill church built in around 1930. Sad what it has come to.


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## Pilgrim72 (Sep 11, 2008)

I just read a book called "Why We're Not Emergent (By Two Guys Who Should Be)", and it certainly seems like this emergent belief-system is non-Christian. It would be hard for me to consider someone a Christian who actually went to one of these churches and didn't have a problem with it...

To me, they just seem like modern day gnostics. They don't claim to know anything for sure. This sort of relativism is in direct contradiction to our Christian absolutism.

The book I read was actually pretty good. And even seemed to me to be a little on the forgiving side. (I think this was done just in case someone from that camp read their book... It would work well as a part of their "dialogue")

Here's the book --->






Why We're Not Emergent (By Two Guys Who Should Be) :: Postmodernism/Emerging Church :: Controversial Issues :: Monergism Books :: Reformed Books and Resources for Christians


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