# Doug Wilson and Dr. Sproul videos concerning paedobaptism



## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

I’ve began studying paedobaptism and I watched the two videos listed in the OP title. I found both very helpful. I couldn’t find any rules prohibiting posting YouTube videos, so I will post them both here.











So, to those who hold to paedobaptism, were both of these really good representations of paedobaptism? I’m sure Dr. Sproul’s video is, but how about Doug Wilson’s? I thought he made a very compelling case of how being cut off from the vine in John 15 and Romans 11 was covenantal and not a forfeiture of salvation. Seeing I too agree with the ‘P’ in TULIP, one who is truly saved cannot and will not become unsaved, that, to me, seems the only way to make sense of those two passages.

What other videos are out there that can help me better grasp this?


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## Romans922 (Jun 5, 2022)

Stay away from Doug Wilson. See Federal Vision - false teaching. Sproul's good on this topic.









Christ Presbyterian Church


Andrew Barnes | Grandview, Missouri




www.sermonaudio.com

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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

Romans922 said:


> Stay away from Doug Wilson. See Federal Vision - false teaching. Sproul's good on this topic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’ve read he’s shaky on some things, as he once held to NPP, but has since backed away from it, or so I was told. TBH with you, I don’t know much about FV, as it seems the more I read up on it, the more confused I get. But I’ll look into it. Thanks my Brother.


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## Romans922 (Jun 5, 2022)

convicted1 said:


> I’ve read he’s shaky on some things, as he once held to NPP, but has since backed away from it, or so I was told. TBH with you, I don’t know much about FV, as it seems the more I read up on it, the more confused I get. But I’ll look into it. Thanks my Brother.



He's backed away as much as a wolf backs away from the sheep only to be sneakier. He's changed his words and mellowed some, but still unrepentant for false teaching, unrepentant for the many other things (gross negligence as a shepherd). He didn't hold to NPP. Whoever has spoken to you is mistaken. This man hasn't pulled his books on this subject (still selling them), hasn't removed his name from the joint federal vision statement. He's dangerous, and wolves are no different than their father Satan. Lots of truth with a little false teaching to get you in the door, and then they kill you.

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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

Romans922 said:


> He's backed away as much as a wolf backs away from the sheep only to be sneakier. He's changed his words and mellowed some, but still unrepentant for false teaching, unrepentant for the many other things (gross negligence as a shepherd). He didn't hold to NPP. Whoever has spoken to you is mistaken. This man hasn't pulled his books on this subject (still selling them), hasn't removed his name from the joint federal vision statement. He's dangerous, and wolves are no different than their father Satan. Lots of truth with a little false teaching to get you in the door, and then they kill you.


Could you give me a brief synopsis of FV? If its too lengthy then don’t bother as it’s not your job to spell it out for me. But if you can give a brief synopsis I’d appreciate it.


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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

When Doug Wilson mentioned those being cut out of the vine in John 15 and Romans 11 as being part of the church but never saved, is that a part of FV? If you watch the video of his posted in the OP, he explained it better than I can. I’ll see if I can find where it exactly is and give you the time so you can watch it without having to watch the whole video.


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## Romans922 (Jun 5, 2022)

Denial of Election, Perseverance of the Saints. Exalting of the sacraments as if they save you. Denial of the invisible church. Denial of the Covenant of Works. Denial of the active obedience of Christ.


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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

Romans922 said:


> Denial of Election, Perseverance of the Saints. Exalting of the sacraments as if they save you. Denial of the invisible church. Denial of the Covenant of Works.


He mentions Perseverance of the Saints in the video and also holds to election, As far as I know.


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## Romans922 (Jun 5, 2022)

convicted1 said:


> When Doug Wilson mentioned those being cut out of the vine in John 15 and Romans 11 as being part of the church but never saved, is that a part of FV? If you watch the video of his posted in the OP, he explained it better than I can. I’ll see if I can find where it exactly is and give you the time so you can watch it without having to watch the whole video.



Stop going back to watch Doug Wilson. lol There are other reformed ministers (who hold to paedobaptism who have preached great sermons on John 15). 









The true Vine and the fruitful branches


Rev. Mark Koller | Dallas Reformed Presbyterian Church




www.sermonaudio.com

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## aaronsk (Jun 5, 2022)

I spent a year looking into paedobaptism this way. At first these kinda of videos seem helpful but ultimately they don’t have enough substance and you end up spinning wheels on the subject. Wilson should be listened to with 2 extra helpings of discernment if at all. Pastor Barnes strong warnings above should be heeded. 

Study covenant theology, it is the key to paedobaptism. There are no shortcuts with this topic. 

I start woth McMhaon’s intrudctoru works (fesko might be one too). Jonty Rhodes has a popular introductory work but seems to have a 2nd commandment violation on the cover (my copy has tape covering it).

1) A simple overview of covenant theology 





A Simple Overview of Covenant Theology – by C. Matthew McMahon – Puritan Publications







www.puritanpublications.com





2) covenant theology made easy





Covenant Theology Made Easy – by C. Matthew McMahon – Puritan Publications







www.puritanpublications.com





3) Herman Witsius economy of the covenants. (Online digital version can be found free online - if you have trouble pm me and ill help you find it)








Economy of the Covenants Between God and Man, 2 Volumes (Witsius)


Puritan and Reformed books at discounted prices.




www.heritagebooks.org

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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

convicted1 said:


> He mentions Perseverance of the Saints in the video and also holds to election, As far as I know.


Go to around the 12:30 mark of Wilson’s video and he mentions Perseverance of the Saints and how they can fall away from the visible church.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jun 5, 2022)

*Moderating/ *Wilson is too tainted with errors to not lie down with him and not get up with flees. If one is sound and discerning and forewarned is one thing (and I know his marriage book was a resource in one class at GPTS, with such proviso), but best just to steer clear. FV adherents and CREC people are not allowed to be members on PB. So get back to paedobaptism without Wilson. I'm pausing the thread for a few minutes.

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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 5, 2022)

Thanks for reopening this. @Romans922 thank you ever so much for your warnings and sermons. I truly appreciate the heads up. I will most definitely listen to those sermons.

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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 15, 2022)

Romans922 said:


> Denial of Election, Perseverance of the Saints. Exalting of the sacraments as if they save you. *Denial of the invisible church*. Denial of the Covenant of Works. Denial of the active obedience of Christ.


Sadly, even some reformed baptists deny the invisible/universal church.


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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 15, 2022)

NaphtaliPress said:


> *Moderating/ *Wilson is too tainted with errors to not lie down with him and not get up with flees. If one is sound and discerning and forewarned is one thing (and I know his marriage book was a resource in one class at GPTS, with such proviso), but best just to steer clear. FV adherents and CREC people are not allowed to be members on PB. So get back to paedobaptism without Wilson. I'm pausing the thread for a few minutes.


CREC?


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## RamistThomist (Jun 15, 2022)

Sovereign Grace said:


> CREC?


Communion of Reformed and Evangelical Churches. Doug Wilson started it some time after he appointed himself pastor of his church.

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## David Taylor (Jun 15, 2022)

Ligonier also has a debate between Sproul and MacArthur on the topic https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/baptism-debate/

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## Stephen L Smith (Jun 15, 2022)

David Taylor said:


> Ligonier also has a debate between Sproul and MacArthur on the topic https://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/baptism-debate/


That debate is not helpful because MacArthur rejects Reformed covenant theology. He is a dispensationalist.

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