# Unaccredited Seminaries



## rpeters (Sep 7, 2013)

I have not seen this brought up in awhile, so I just wanted to renew an old thread. How does everyone feel about unaccredited seminaries?


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## CharlieJ (Sep 7, 2013)

Feelings don't matter here; facts do. Accreditation is only one factor in choosing a seminary. Yet, there are no disadvantages to having an accredited degree and several not to having one. Lack of accreditation may make it difficult to transfer credits or to pursue advanced coursework. Also, a lack of accreditation is often indicative of, though not constitutive of, a less rigorous education; at the very least, some other people will assume it is. Thus, a lack of accreditation may not affect one's day-to-day experience in seminary, but it carries the risk of regret by narrowing one's future opportunities.

I think someone would need strong counter-balancing reasons to choose an unaccredited seminary over the many fine accredited ones.


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## Wayne (Sep 7, 2013)

Charlie

It would seem that you would be well equipped to speak to this question. Did Greenville's lack of accreditation pose any problems in your further academic pursuits? Or to ask it another way, what were your counter-balancing reasons for choosing Greenville?

Reactions: Like 1


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## RamistThomist (Sep 8, 2013)

As Christian institutions face increasing marginalization, accreditation might become a moot point. (I say that fully understanding the value and "door-opening power" of an accredited degree).


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 8, 2013)

It really depends on the overall reputation of the institution and what your plans are for your degree. There are many non-accredited seminaries that have a very good reputation and if your desire is to be a pastor, then it should not be an issue. If, however, you plan to pursue further education, such as a Ph.D., this could cause a problem as many schools will not accept graduates of non-accredited schools.


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## CharlieJ (Sep 8, 2013)

Wayne said:


> Charlie
> 
> It would seem that you would be well equipped to speak to this question. Did Greenville's lack of accreditation pose any problems in your further academic pursuits? Or to ask it another way, what were your counter-balancing reasons for choosing Greenville?



Yes, it very much did. I had to pursue a second (accredited) master's degree before going on to my PhD work. My reasons for going to GPTS were that I was newly married, settled into a church, and wanted to stay in the area. Also, at that time I was leaning toward the pastoral ministry rather than toward advanced academic work. Knowing what I know now both about myself and academia, I don't know whether I would have made the same choice. I do know that I wish they had had accreditation.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Zach (Sep 8, 2013)

As someone considering seminary, but doing so still testing whether or not I am called Pastoral Ministry, it weighs heavily on my mind for reasons that Charlie has brought up. If I go to seminary and ultimately do not believe I am called to Pastoral Ministry going to an unaccredited school definitely does not leave me with many options. Nevertheless, that education would absolutely still be valuable, but as Charlie said it doesn't make a whole lot of sense when there are very good accredited seminaries out there.


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 8, 2013)

Zach said:


> If I go to seminary and ultimately do not believe I am called to Pastoral Ministry going to an unaccredited school definitely does not leave me with many options



Actually, a degree from any seminary is fairly useless outside of ministry.


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## Andres (Sep 8, 2013)

I think Charlie and Zach have both touched on the crucial issue - what does a man intend to use his degree/education for after graduation? If it is for pastoral ministry, then accredidation is not as important as the actual wisdom, knowledge, and mentoring received. What would be most important to consider when pursuing education for the purpose of ordination and eventual pastoral ministry, would be to meet with one's local session and one's Presbytery to confirm the quality and subsequent validity of an education from a particular school. For example, while a degree from Princeton seminary would hold quite a bit of weight in academic circles, I can rattle of multiple seminaries, many unaccredited, that are vastly superior than Princeton seminary if a man desires to become a minister in a confessionally reformed church. 

Lastly, let us not gloss over the biggest advantage of unaccredited seminaries when compared to those accredited - unaccredited schools tend to be much more affordable, and for many of the men who are going to school while supporting families and looking at a future as a minister (a career that is certainly not selected based on salarly), affordability is a BIG advantage.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 8, 2013)

Generally, I would say that an accredited degree is the ONLY one that will give you the kind of flexibility you may need. From transfer of units to secular recognition of your work to respect in your field, an accredited degree is typically a must. Also, given the vocational changes that affect seminarians, seminary grads, and pastors during their first 10 years of ministry, you may find yourself doing something other than vocational ministry and need an accredited status to your prior work.

However, some of us with impressive accredited degrees will add an unaccredited one for reasons that meet our specific purposes. Mired in the mind-numbing minutiae of administrative management, I started a Whitefield program in order to help me keep my sanity and plunge me into Reformational subject matter. With school debts and on-going college tuition for the last of my 5 kids, an accredited option would have been out of reach. Obviously at age 60, finishing this program is not going to "get me a job." And, 25,000+ pages of reading and 2,900+ pages of writing . . . and still counting, it has more than met my expectations and specific needs. I have loved it!

If you are aiming at pastoral ministry and you select a school that your denomination will accept (accredited or not), that MIGHT be better than digging a hole with debt. Attending any school (accredited or not) that your church family will not accept is just stupid. However, many of those who begin a program find that pastoral ministry is not where they end up after completing their seminary work. Being saddled with $50k or more in debt is hardly a great way to commence pastoral ministry . . . or anything else! So, carefully CONSIDER what you are doing before engaging. Committing to an expensive school is a lousy "place holder" until you discover what you want to do with your life. The debt will follow you for a VERY long time.

Models are changing and brick and mortar schools are facing financial challenges that are daunting. My very accredited alma mater has been laying off profs due to dropping enrollment stats. And, it is becoming obvious to even the thick headed prospective seminarians that a ton of debt is a bad deal as preparation for serving a congregation of 40-80 regular attenders. It seems likely that the future will involve some changes in typical patterns, if for no other reasons than financial exigency.

I have often mused to myself that a structured program of mentoring under a solid pastor, coupled with an inexpensive way to cover the content requirements of a fullly comparable seminary education would be ideal for many. Afterall, places such as Covenant and a few others have put more than a full seminary program (including languages) online for free! However, as Scott Clark has observed, you cannot train pastors without face-to-face interaction over a long time. Setting up a network of pastor-trainers who would actually hold to academic standards is the weak link in my dream. Who has the vision to organize cohorts of learners who would meet regularly to process what was being covered in those MP3 lectures and certify that adequate mentorship was happening in local settings? 

So, for the present at least, students are left with the possibility of a very expensive accredited education that may leave them financially crippled or an unaccredited program that will not afford them the flexibility to actually do what they want to do after graduation!

So, my advice? 
* Most people should obtain an accredited degree - but only after having a pretty good idea that they need it or if they have lots of $$$.
* Some people may find unaccredited degrees or self-study programs with mentorship as acceptable for their specific situation and needs (but only if their denomination accepts it for what they are hoping to do or if they do not "need" another degree to do what they want to do next).
* Whatever you do, work VERY hard to avoid, limit, and mitigate the future debt load. You do NOT know where you will end up, but the consequences of student debt (generally not dischargeable in bankruptcy) WILL follow you for a VERY long time and can be a source of longterm pain and even of marital discord. You may find yourself inclined toward ministry or missions opportunities for which you are disqualified for reasons of finances. I meet young men all the time who cannot afford to accept the churches to which they are most likely to be called, due to their seminary debt.


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## arapahoepark (Sep 8, 2013)

DMcFadden said:


> Generally, I would say that an accredited degree is the ONLY one that will give you the kind of flexibility you may need. From transfer of units to secular recognition of your work to respect in your field, an accredited degree is typically a must. Also, given the vocational changes that affect seminarians, seminary grads, and pastors during their first 10 years of ministry, you may find yourself doing something other than vocational ministry and need an accredited status to your prior work.
> 
> However, some of us with impressive accredited degrees will add an unaccredited one for reasons that meet our specific purposes. Mired in the mind-numbing minutiae of administrative management, I started a Whitefield program in order to help me keep my sanity and plunge me into Reformational subject matter. With school debts and on-going college tuition for the last of my 5 kids, an accredited option would have been out of reach. Obviously at age 60, finishing this program is not going to "get me a job." And, 25,000+ pages of reading and 2,900+ pages of writing . . . and still counting, it has more than met my expectations and specific needs. I have loved it!
> 
> ...



As always McFadden nails it!


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## ZackF (Sep 8, 2013)

dupe


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## ZackF (Sep 8, 2013)

Andrew might be on to something. Should the unaccredited and cheaper route be encouraged for men who are called to the ministry late(r) in life? I think few biblical research scholars and professional theologians are called later in life but preaching, pastoring and teaching is different. There is also case of the ruling elder or deacon who might be called to more in-depth teaching and counseling. I think these unaccredited and/or "virtual" institutions could provide an affordable service to the church as long as proper mentoring is in place. Maybe some of the later-in-life-called can weigh in here.


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## KMK (Sep 8, 2013)

DMcFadden said:


> And, it is becoming obvious to even the thick headed prospective seminarians that a ton of debt is a bad deal as preparation for serving a congregation of 40-80 regular attenders. It seems likely that the future will involve some changes in typical patterns, if for no other reasons than financial exigency.



I think this will be the trend. This will become even more prevalent if the non-taxable status of churches is removed. I think brick and mortar accredited seminaries are going to have to make some changes or get left behind. It is one thing to be saddled with debt in order to have a career in business, health, or even education, but not the ministry in this day and age.


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## Edward (Sep 8, 2013)

KMK said:


> I think brick and mortar accredited seminaries are going to have to make some changes or get left behind.



Not just seminaries - the entire education industry is facing the equivalent of the industrial revolution.


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## Herald (Sep 8, 2013)

The question of accreditation depends on where you are in life and what you plan to do with your degree. 

I am on the other side of 50 and serve as an elder in a small Reformed Baptist church. I went to Bible college back in the 80's but I never attended seminary. I am now enrolled in a school that provides seminary level classes. Accreditation is not the most important thing for me at this point of my life. I am looking to increase my theological knowledge so that I will be more effective in my teaching ministry in my church.


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## Philip (Sep 8, 2013)

As one not pursuing ordained ministry (and also, incidentally, single) I decided to only go the accredited route for a couple of reasons:

1) I'm looking to go into academics.
2) I was reasonably certain of my finances.
3) I wanted credits to transfer should the need arise.
4) all of the schools I was interested in happened to be accredited.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Sep 8, 2013)

I am obviously biased, but a seminary that charges absolutely nothing while providing each student a seasoned mentor to walk with the student through a rigourous program of Reformed focused study, along with a community of like-minded believers for theological discussions, is something worth considering.


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## reaganmarsh (Sep 9, 2013)

rpeters said:


> I have not seen this brought up in awhile, so I just wanted to renew an old thread. How does everyone feel about unaccredited seminaries?



Robert, what are your thoughts about MINTS? What is your course/level of study? What do you hope to do with your training? Just curious.


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## rpeters (Sep 9, 2013)

reaganmarsh said:


> Robert, what are your thoughts about MINTS? What is your course/level of study? What do you hope to do with your training? Just curious.



I can definitively understand many of the concerns that have been expressed here. I actually started of in LAMP, and had a difficulty transferring credits to another seminary. LAMP was OK. MINTS is good. I will add I am getting masters of education from an accredited university, to counter balance the perceived lack rigorous education. My goal for ministry, but it is more on educational side. From what I have seen most M.div program are meant to raise preachers not educators. I know I will get a backlash for that statement. MINTS will allow me to get the M.div I need for pastoral ministry, while my MA in education will allow me to get a firm understanding of educational principles to lead educational programs in the church. My goals for ministry is to get a associate type position that focuses on accomplishing vision, mission and educational objectives in the church. Just do not know if there is much need for that. We will see


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## reaganmarsh (Sep 9, 2013)

It's probably wise that you're also doing the accredited masters program as well. I'm still being nosy (hope that's okay!) But I noticed on your profile that you're PCA. 

That raises 2 questions: Will MINTS satisfy your PCA ordination requirements? And is the MINTS program reformed? 

I don't mean to be a pest. Just haven't heard of this school before and am curious as to where they're coming from. 

Grace to you.


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## rpeters (Sep 10, 2013)

Your not being a pest. PCA will accept a degree from MINTS. Then again it depends on the presbytery if they will accept a degree from an unaccredited institution. MINTS has been around since the 1990's, but mainly serves on the mission field. MINTS is very reformed. if you would like to know more questions feel free to ask here or PM me


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## yeutter (Sep 10, 2013)

Westminster is now accredited, but for much of its history, Westminster [in Philadelphia] was not accredited. I don't think Reformed Episcopal is accredited. Canadian Reformed was not accredited until very recently. Protestant Reformed is not accredited. Wisconsin Lutheran Seminary was not accredited until very recently. I don't think Bethany Lutheran Theological Seminary is accredited. All of those schools produced, and continue to produce fine pastors and excellent preachers. I have known many fine preachers [both Anglican and Baptist] who trained at a small reading hall, or were trained/studied with a seasoned mentor.


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## Wololo (Sep 10, 2013)

My church is linked up with LAMP Seminary based out of Southern Florida. It's non-accredited, but the cost for a Masters is around $8000 dollars. That's a significant difference over an accredited institution. Granted, it's really only worthwhile if your goal is to be ordained and be in ministry, but I would assume that's why most people would attend seminary. If you're going into the academic side, you have to go accredited otherwise you won't be able to pursue advanced degrees, but if you just want to minister, then a place like LAMP is more than adequate. 

As an aside, we need more God-honoring men going into the seminary in this day and age. There is so much poor theology being "taught" across this country in our churches. We need another Reformation!


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