# On the Duties of Uncles and Aunts



## greenbaggins

Has it ever struck you that most uncles and aunts seem pretty detached from their nephews and nieces? The duties are not well-defined. The impetus to help raise the nephews and nieces is mostly obliterated by a sense that it might be seen as interference (and surely, sometimes it is!). 

But it seems to me that a proper understanding of the covenantal structure of the family would place uncles and aunts in a much closer position to help than, say, daycare. After all, uncles and aunts are descended from the grandparents of the nephews and nieces. Maybe a slightly broader (or deeper!) view of the covenantal structure (not headship, obviously, as the father is the head) would dictate a closer involvement. 

Most relationships between uncle/aunt and nephew/niece seem to rely mostly on the nephew/niece initiative. Why should this be? Is there no telephone? Is there no internet? Is there no such thing as gifts? I can testify that every time I have gotten involved in the lives of my nephews and nieces, not only have the parents been grateful, but also the nephews and nieces have been grateful. Our culture is rootless enough as it is without this fragmentation of the larger family that tends to happen. 

I believe that the Bible hints at a larger involvement. One could profitably look at the house structure of families (one room added on whenever a new family starts), and the importance of uncles and aunts (even in a negative light, such as Jacob and Laban) in the biblical narrative. 

I would therefore like to challenge us to be much more involved in the lives of our nephews and nieces. This is especially true of those nephews and nieces that become ours by marriage. They are not to be treated in any different way than the blood-line nephews and nieces.


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## OPC'n

Sadly I failed at this job. One of my sister's family lives in Canada and so I don't see them much. However, I have a sister who lives here and I have tried to help her understand the need of good training for her child. I have tried for 15 yrs to no avail and now it's really too late since her child will be 18yr in November. It's a very sad case.


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## greenbaggins

sjonee said:


> Sadly I failed at this job. One of my sister's family lives in Canada and so I don't see them much. However, I have a sister who lives here and I have tried to help her understand the need of good training for her child. I have tried for 15 yrs to no avail and now it's really too late since her child will be 18yr in November. It's a very sad case.



It isn't failure when you seek to help and your help is rejected. But that is very sad.


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## Blue Tick

Currently my wife and I are "raising" our two nephews their my wife's sister's children. The boys have stayed with us in the past when they were much younger, even now they are very young 6 and 3.5 years.


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## kvanlaan

Funny you should bring this up - I recall something from a Western Civ class to the effect that in feudal times, uncles and aunts were often very close to their nephews and nieces (often sent there to be raised, instead of in their own homes), and in some cases had a closer relationship than the child's own parents.


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## lynnie

Then Jesus' mother and brothers arrived. Standing outside, they sent someone in to call him. A crowd was sitting around him, and they told him, "Your mother and brothers are outside looking for you." 

"Who are my mother and my brothers?" he asked. 

Then he looked at those seated in a circle around him and said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother."

**********************
I would say that Jesus wants us involved in the lives of the children at our church like Aunts and Uncles, but biological family relationships are not mandated in that way. In fact, in light of Proverbs and warnings about bad friends, there are often relatives you want to keep away from your kids. 

My kids are part of 27 cousins (I have 5, so that's 22 nieces and nephews for me). Some we are close to and they have spent much time at our home including weeks in the summer. Others, well, it just isn't the same.

Some of my kid's friends over the years have felt like family members, and it has been nice to watch them grow up and live for the Lord and be part of their lives, and they felt like our home was a second home. But you don't always get that with your relatives!


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## LadyFlynt

One of my siblings is mentally handicapped.
One brother and I haven't spoken in 6yrs. (issues lay with his dad)
My other siblings are out of state, we keep in contact and do what we can.


On my husband's side
One brother that lives nearby, but would only be out for the destruction of our children. He's been out to destroy our marriage from the beginning and has/has tried to physically attack me on more than one occasion. He and his wife have no place in our children's lives.


Now my closest, and Christian, friends and church family my children refer to as Uncle and Aunt. There is more to being "uncle and aunt" than lineage.


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## kvanlaan

That's what we did in China too. Close friends were, for instance, Uncle Steve and Aunt Cathy - no relation whatsoever.


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## jwithnell

Interestingly, in the Tlingit culture, in SE Alaska, the mother's brother has the ultimate responsibility in making sure that the family's clan culture is passed along in that matriarchal society.

Within the covenant community, I think it largely depends on the family, although I do think the original premise is correct -- that we should have responsibility for our nieces and nephews. Proximity, local culture, and so forth will be different from family to family. If you are in the same church, it takes on particular meaning because you are part of the same visible body.


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## LadyFlynt

That is the way it is in Cherokee culture also.


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## Mushroom

My nephew is very dear to me. He's 24 and living out in CA, working as an intel consultant after his discharge from the Air Force. He lived with us some in his teens, and we had our differences, but one of the most treasured events of my life was the day he came to me in his dress blues, and thanked me for telling him about the Lord and encouraging him to exercise self-discipline to rise out of the dissapation his mother had brought him up in. He is one sharp kid. Still struggling with the faith, can't say I know he is regenerate yet, but I have high hopes. We talked 1-2 times a week all through his deployment to Iraq and since up until about a month ago, when I think his marriage began to disentegrate. He won't answer his phone or emails, and I'm worried about him. I'm sure he feels like he doesn't want to share bad news, and he knows I'll tell him to seek reconciliation, and maybe he's not wanting to hear that.

His name is John Calvin, a family name from his father's side given without any knowledge of it's true roots, but providentially absolutely cool - any prayers will be appreciated.


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## greenbaggins

I was referring primarily to how uncles and aunts ought to behave towards their nephews and nieces. And I was generalizing to a certain extent. Bloodline isn't everything. However, it does mean something, doesn't it? New relationships in the church do not negate our obligations to our own blood (or in-law) family. I was also referring primarily to normal relationships between uncle/aunt and nephew/niece, not pathological relationships. Just some clarification.


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## JBaldwin

I would agree that there should be more involvement with nieces and nephews. In general our entire society is detached. The children are "taken" from the home to spend a large portion of their lives in school (these days beginning at age 2 or 3). Grandparents are generally an aside. As soon as siblings leave the home, the connections tend to end. 

While this is not so much the case in my family, it believe it is common. When my sister's children were small, I was the primary babysitter. I kept (and still do) up with birthdays, etc., and I still speak to my nieces and nephew at least once or twice a month, even though they are now adults. My nieces and nephews babysat for my children when they were small, and my sister still looks after my youngest daughter now and again when I need it. 

I think these family ties are important. I am always amazed at my aunt who is now a great-grandmother. She has managed to keep her children, grandchildren and sons and daughters in law together. Most of her children and grandchildren live nearby, and she has always had an "open door" policy with all of them. Her grandchildren stop by after school for a snack or to do their homework. It's a meeting place for cousins, a place to drop off children (instead of daycare). When I pop in on my aunt, I can expect to see at least 1/3 of her 50 or so relations over the course of day. I could go on, but I believe this is an example of how families should be.


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## SolaScriptura

Lane,

I think it is a nice cozy idea to be really active in the lives of our nieces and nephews - and hopefully we would have the kind of cozy family situation in which that kind of involvement is possible.

However, I don't like the idea of referring to the "duties" of uncles and aunts. I realize that Reformed types get tingles up and down their spines whenever they see the word "Duty," but really... the Bible may hint at the concept of larger, broader, familial involvement (as you note), but that is a far cry from ascribing "duties" to aunts and uncles. And furthermore, there was a "clan" mentality in ancient Israelite culture that simply doesn't exist in Western culture. 

Be wary of using language that seems to obligate people to actions that go beyond the requirements of Scripture... Instead, say something like, "I like big happy families where everybody holds hands and loves being together. So aunts and uncles, consider being involved in the lives of your nieces and nephews as that is conducive to a big happy family."


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## LadyFlynt

Lane, I realise that you mean well and agree to an extent. I will be here should my nieces and nephews need me in the future. But reality is, I can have no part in their lives at this time in order to keep the integrity of ours. I have, when visiting, done my part to be a influence on my other nieces and nephews as much as I could. I do consider myself as having a duty to them, but not overstepping their parents.


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## SolaScriptura

LadyFlynt said:


> I do consider myself as having a duty to them, but not overstepping their parents.



If you're referring to your general duties to your fellow man, ok. But if you believe that you have some kind of duties to your nieces and nephews by the simple fact that they are your niece or nephew, I'd like to know from where do you get this special sense of duty to them? And what does this "duty" to them entail? 
Or are you just saying that as a family oriented person you have a sentimental attachment to anyone in your family/clan and as such you feel a burden to be there for them to help them out when you can?


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## greenbaggins

I would put it this way: is there not a covenantal obligation to help raise the children of the church? We have that obligation every time there is a baptism and we say we will help the parents of said child. Again, I am assuming here a situation not like LadyFlynt's situation, where no relationship is possible, but rather a situation where everyone is already Christian. I think that the obligations are not less when it comes to one's own family, but if anything more. There is in the Bible a strong emphasis on covenantal continuity. One cannot presume on said covenant. However, that does not mean that the covenant is therefore nullified. Therefore, I conclude that our obligations to our nephews and nieces (those who are part of a believing family) can fairly be described as duties.


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## SolaScriptura

greenbaggins said:


> I would put it this way: is there not a covenantal obligation to help raise the children of the church? We have that obligation every time there is a baptism and we say we will help the parents of said child. Again, I am assuming here a situation not like LadyFlynt's situation, where no relationship is possible, but rather a situation where everyone is already Christian. I think that the obligations are not less when it comes to one's own family, but if anything more. There is in the Bible a strong emphasis on covenantal continuity. One cannot presume on said covenant. However, that does not mean that the covenant is therefore nullified. Therefore, I conclude that our obligations to our nephews and nieces (those who are part of a believing family) can fairly be described as duties.



Lane -

I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I still think you're reaching. 
If my nieces and nephews are Christians then I have the same obligations to them as to any other Christian. Regardless of whether they are saved or not, I have obligations to my fellow man, of which they are a part.

I have specific responsibilities to my parents. I have specific responsibilities spelled out concerning my wife and kids. But I don't have those in regards to my neices and nephews. 

Don't burden the consciences of others without warrant.


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## greenbaggins

SolaScriptura said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would put it this way: is there not a covenantal obligation to help raise the children of the church? We have that obligation every time there is a baptism and we say we will help the parents of said child. Again, I am assuming here a situation not like LadyFlynt's situation, where no relationship is possible, but rather a situation where everyone is already Christian. I think that the obligations are not less when it comes to one's own family, but if anything more. There is in the Bible a strong emphasis on covenantal continuity. One cannot presume on said covenant. However, that does not mean that the covenant is therefore nullified. Therefore, I conclude that our obligations to our nephews and nieces (those who are part of a believing family) can fairly be described as duties.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lane -
> 
> I'm not trying to be obtuse, but I still think you're reaching.
> If my nieces and nephews are Christians then I have the same obligations to them as to any other Christian. Regardless of whether they are saved or not, I have obligations to my fellow man, of which they are a part.
> 
> I have specific responsibilities to my parents. I have specific responsibilities spelled out concerning my wife and kids. But I don't have those in regards to my neices and nephews.
> 
> Don't burden the consciences of others without warrant.
Click to expand...


I think you are limiting the definition of family too much. Do we have any more obligations for our blood-line family than we do for other Christians? Do I have any more obligations towards my blood-brother than I would to other Christians? If I do (and who would dispute that), then why would I not have more obligations towards my brother's children?


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## LadyFlynt

SolaScriptura said:


> LadyFlynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do consider myself as having a duty to them, but not overstepping their parents.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you're referring to your general duties to your fellow man, ok. But if you believe that you have some kind of duties to your nieces and nephews by the simple fact that they are your niece or nephew, I'd like to know from where do you get this special sense of duty to them? And what does this "duty" to them entail?
> Or are you just saying that as a family oriented person you have a sentimental attachment to anyone in your family/clan and as such you feel a burden to be there for them to help them out when you can?
Click to expand...

Yes and yes. General and family oriented. I do believe that I would be negligent if one of my siblings died and their children went into foster care instead of my home....unless it was beyond my ability to take them in for some reason.

But as you and Lane are both coming close to concluding...we have that same obligation within the church.


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## JBaldwin

I just wanted to make it clear that I don't believe that it is a Christian duty to reach out into extended family, but I do think it is a good thing when it is feasible and is in the best interest of everyone involved. If my nieces or nephews were involved in something that would be a bad influence on my children, I would not consider it my christian duty to involve them intimately in the lives of my children. 

The idea of family and covenant seems to me to extend only to those within our immediate household.


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## Mindaboo

My extended family was my stability as a kid, if it weren't for the love of my grandparents and aunts and uncles I would have been left with no guidance at all. My grandmother loved me, took care of me and gave me what I needed. My mom never had much interest in me. I was just a hassle. Unfortunately for us, our extended family is not what is best for our children. My aunt and uncle have filled the role of mom and dad for me. 

My two nieces live in Mississippi, but I still talk with them as much as I am able. When my sister was not speaking to me for two years I still sent presents, sent cards just because and let them know I was still around. I love those two girls and the bond I feel with them is great. My heart was broken when I couldn't talk to them or see them. Brad's nieces and nephews are mine too. I keep in touch with them as I am able to. Brad spoke of my nephew and he is like a brother to my children. They are very close to him. I love all of my nieces and nephews dearly and would do all I could to help them.


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## SolaScriptura

greenbaggins said:


> I think you are limiting the definition of family too much. Do we have any more obligations for our blood-line family than we do for other Christians? Do I have any more obligations towards my blood-brother than I would to other Christians? If I do (and who would dispute that), then why would I not have more obligations towards my brother's children?



Lane, I grant that "family" refers to a concept that extends far beyond the "nuclear family" of Western culture. What I'm saying is that the Bible gives me a clue as to what I should do with (for example) my kids, but it doesn't say what I should do with my brother's kids. 

Since you believe that we have duties to our nieces and nephews that are (apparently) different than our "normal" duties to our fellow Christians or our fellow humans, I'd like for you to spell out some of the things that I owe my nieces and nephews. Please start compiling the list. 

As Reformed folk we like the concepts of covenantalism and family, so it is easy to talk about the covenant being broad and including the whole blood-line, etc... but when the rubber hits the road and you want to start talking about "duty," then that implies sinfulness on the part of the person not doing their duty... and before I go around telling people they're sinning, I want to know what exactly they should be doing.

-----Added 3/4/2009 at 01:08:27 EST-----

For example... I love my nieces. So I send them birthday presents. And I chat with them once in a while on the phone. And I pray for them. And when I'm in person with them I play games with them and such. 

I do that out of what I call the "sentimenal familial bond." But nowhere do I believe that I _owe_ them a phone call or a birthday present or a game of Candy Land.


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## mvdm

greenbaggins said:


> I would put it this way: is there not a covenantal obligation to help raise the children of the church? We have that obligation every time there is a baptism and we say we will help the parents of said child. Again, I am assuming here a situation not like LadyFlynt's situation, where no relationship is possible, but rather a situation where everyone is already Christian. I think that the obligations are not less when it comes to one's own family, but if anything more. There is in the Bible a strong emphasis on covenantal continuity. One cannot presume on said covenant. However, that does not mean that the covenant is therefore nullified. Therefore, I conclude that our obligations to our nephews and nieces (those who are part of a believing family) can fairly be described as duties.



Lane, I suspect you are referring to the "congregational pledge" language in the baptismal form in the Grey Psalter Hymnal used in the CRC? I don't recall that same type of language in the Blue P.H. baptismal forms used in the URC. The question I suppose is whether a "congregational pledge" is an appropriate part of the sacrament, if the sacrament is understood to be God acting, not man pledging/dedicating.


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## Grace Alone

My aunt never married and lived next door to us during my childhood. We were extremely close and I had many opportunities in life because of her. But we married and moved away from family, so we have never really been involved in the lives of our extended family. I did try to give the kids Christian books and magazines over the years since most were raised in liberal churches.

But I have an even more urgent feeling about family, and that is that grandparents often do not have any involvement in their grandchildren's lives because of distance. My husband was pretty much taught that he had to move around to go after a well paying job. That turned out not to be our goal as Christians, but it resulted in us living away from family, most of whom are either not Christians or those who attend liberal churches. So I really would not have wanted more of that kind of influence. But in our case, we ARE Christians, and we have encouraged our children to seek employment in our area after college so we can continue to enjoy a future family life. I would love to help with grandchildren so that none are ever left in daycare or with strangers. I want to help pass along our Christian heritage. Susan Hunt's books such as Heirs of the Covenant are very inspiring in this regard.


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