# Lee & Misty Irons



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 9, 2006)

I came across a website run by Misty Irons, wife of Lee Irons. Her website appears to condone same-sex civil unions among other things in that vein. I gather that this led to a trial of her husband, after which he left the OPC. I am not current on this controversy. Can anyone shed further light on what happened and where things stand now??


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## crhoades (Jan 9, 2006)

http://www.upper-register.com/irons_trial.html


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## BobVigneault (Jan 9, 2006)

To be hones Andrew, I never heard of it but a google search turned up this site.

http://www.upper-register.com/irons_trial.html


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 9, 2006)

Remember, if you are investigating something, get several sources. Upper Register is Irons' site. Don't forget to ask the _church_ for its version of events too....

Irons lost a court battle over a doctrinal position he held on the place of the law, not over a web-site run by his wife. And he lost it all the way to the General Assembly.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 9, 2006)

Thanks. I have reviewed the charges against Lee Irons and some documents related to his trial and appeal, and I think I have a better sense of the nature of the situation. Is there anything else I can read from the OPC? What has happened since 2003? Is Lee Irons pastoring a church anywhere?


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 9, 2006)

I don't know if he is pastoring or not. He refused the counsel and discipline of the church to which he vowed submission, and in order to maintain his preferred doctrine, he simply left. I understand he tried to renounce the jurisdiction of his presbytery, but since he was already in the disciplinary process it was refused. When he didn't show up at the final stage of his process ("because you guys don't have jurisdiction over me anymore!") they concluded the process by imposing censure.


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## tcalbrecht (Jan 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Thanks. I have reviewed the charges against Lee Irons and some documents related to his trial and appeal, and I think I have a better sense of the nature of the situation. Is there anything else I can read from the OPC? What has happened since 2003? Is Lee Irons pastoring a church anywhere?



According to his web site, "At the moment [Irons] works as a research administrator at a medical school in Los Angeles."


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## VanVos (Jan 9, 2006)

I don't have problem with Irons and his teachings, I think he's studies in Covenant Theology are excellent. Actually last night I taught on the law of Christ, holding a similar position to that of Lee Irons. That being said I am concerned about Misty Irons statements about condoning same-sex civil unions.....yikes! 

VanVos


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## Scott (Jan 9, 2006)

"I don't know if he is pastoring or not. He refused the counsel and discipline of the church to which he vowed submission, and in order to maintain his preferred doctrine, he simply left. I understand he tried to renounce the jurisdiction of his presbytery, but since he was already in the disciplinary process it was refused. When he didn't show up at the final stage of his process ("because you guys don't have jurisdiction over me anymore!") they concluded the process by imposing censure."

It is like in the old west when outlaws would flee from one state to another to avoid jurisdiction. Some outlaws were wanted in more than one state.


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## VanVos (Jan 9, 2006)

I think we need to remember/consider Irons side of the story. He was trying to be true to his convictions. http://www.upper-register.com/irons_trial/letter_to_presby(9-19-03).rtf

I know your joking Scott but I wouldn't use the term
"outlaw" when speaking of Irons´s situation.


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## non dignus (Jan 9, 2006)

I don't have first-hand info. 

In defense of Mrs. Irons, she was in league with gay marriage supporters ONLY in so far as they could be political allies in libertarian causes. 

I don't believe she was advocating gay unions.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 9, 2006)

Misty Irons, _A Conservative Christian Case for Civil Same-Sex Marriage_:



> Since conservative Christians oppose gay marriage in the church for religious reasons, it is in our best interest to support gay marriage in society for civil rights reasons.
> 
> Wasn't sure you heard me the first time? Then let me be absolutely clear: Conservative Christians should support civil same-sex marriage.


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## non dignus (Jan 10, 2006)

OOPS

I stand corrected.


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## tcalbrecht (Jan 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VanVos_
> I think we need to remember/consider Irons side of the story. *He was trying to be true to his convictions.* http://www.upper-register.com/irons_trial/letter_to_presby(9-19-03).rtf
> 
> I know your joking Scott but I wouldn't use the term
> "outlaw" when speaking of Irons´s situation.



Jesse James was being true to his convictions as well. 

I'm just wondering, is Irons merely guilty of taking the views of his mentor, Meredith Kline, too far? Kline never cared for "theonomy", and it seems that Irons is recasting traditional covenant theology in order to finally rid it of the notion that there is room for theonomists under the CT umbrella. In the process, he seems to have adopted a view that is closer to Lutheran or semi-dispensational view on the law-gospel relationship. Or, at best, he was unable to articulate a view that was acceptable without granting a place for theonomists at the CT table.


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## tcalbrecht (Jan 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Misty Irons, _A Conservative Christian Case for Civil Same-Sex Marriage_:
> 
> 
> ...



Did Mr. Irons ever state whether he agreed or disagreed with his wife's convictions? Was he ever asked whether such a view -- homosexual "marriage" OK in the civil realm -- was consistent with the Klinean R-H twist on CT?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by tcalbrecht_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



I'm not thoroughly acquainted with the situation, but this is what I gather from his website (sources there include the charges filed against him and his own paper expressing his personal views on the subject):

* Mr. Irons posted his wife's article on his website on January 2, 2002.

* On January 9, 2002 he wrote an email stating that he was in general agreement with his wife's views but was not endorsing her article in his capacity as a minister.

* Around March 11, 2002 he removed the article from his website and posted a note of explanation which allowed nonetheless that the article was within the bounds of the Confession of the OPC.

* Charges were filed against Mr. Irons on June 1, 2002.

* On July 19, 2002 Mr. Irons published a paper expressing his personal opinion about homosexuality and same-sex civil marriages which is consistent with what his wife wrote. He express his "own private opinion [] that civil government has the right to recognize same-sex civil unions."

For further clarification, I would recommend reading the charges filed against him and his paper on homosexuality, both of which can be found at his website.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 11, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> I don't know if he is pastoring or not. *He refused the counsel and discipline of the church to which he vowed submission,* and in order to maintain his preferred doctrine, he simply left. I understand he tried to renounce the jurisdiction of his presbytery, but since he was already in the disciplinary process it was refused. When he didn't show up at the final stage of his process ("because you guys don't have jurisdiction over me anymore!") they concluded the process by imposing censure.


Bruce,

You hit the nail on the head.

There are some details I'm privvy to because my home Church is an OPC Church in Temecula, CA. To me the doctrinal issues are somewhat secondary to the spirit displayed by Lee and his wife.

I think it's easy to get distracted by one who writes eloquently and intelligently as Lee Irons can but, in the end, he refused to submit and was schismatic. His other qualities and arguments are frankly eclipsed.

I know the men on the "other side" of this issue. They are sinners in need of Grace like anyone else but they are lovers of God and His Word. Are the convictions of the majority report within the Southern California Presbytery and the counsel of many Elders to be disregarded because one man cannot stomach the idea that he clearly sees something that "...everyone else just doesn't get...." Somebody please tell me where we are ever given such a license within the Church body to be schismatic for our own convictions. I understand if we're talking about men abandoning the Gospel but, if you have to explain your "problem" in a tome that requires the splitting of a hair to make the lay-person understand why your version of CT is worth schism then something is quite wrong.

There are important issues to wrestle with at times but it may often require patience, long-suffering, and submission. A few months effort and then cutting and running is wimpy. Imagine if Athanasius had such little endurance under adversity.

There are reasons we take vows and it's not because it's always going to be a party. I have an old Marine Corps recruiting poster that reads "We don't promise a rose garden". If Israel knew the weight of even a rash vow made to the Gibeonites then surely Lee Irons should have better counted the cost of leaving the OPC and potentially ship-wrecking the faith of his entire Church by modelling precisely the opposite of Godly submission.

[Edited on 1-11-2006 by SemperFideles]


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 11, 2006)

This controversy at the time was discussed heavily on the discussion groups RTDISC and on Presbyterians-OPC list, if I recall correctly. I don't recall if the archives are public but they are accessible at:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/rtdisc/messages
and
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/presbyterians-opc/messages


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