# How are you all so sure of what you're supposed to do?



## Jeremy Ivens (Jun 20, 2017)

I'm 28, and I feel like I'm being the through the ringer. I'm intensely frustrated because I've been praying for 2.5 years about my vocation.

When the Lord saved me, I was on track to a literature degree and writing fiction but fiction is pretty frowned upon by believers, so I halted. 

I refuse to write allegory. But I have no sense of direction of what to do. I can write and speak well and those are my only two talents. I'm seemingly the only person agonizing over this life question...


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## greenbaggins (Jun 20, 2017)

Jeremy, I am appalled that you would get an impression that fiction is pretty frowned upon by believers. I am not appalled at you, merely appalled that some Christians would seek to discourage you from this path. From where I stand, we need LOTS more fiction written by believers!

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## Silas22 (Jun 20, 2017)

Jeremy, I am constantly re-reading Tolkien's LOTR. That should answer your question.

Side note: I'm 28 as well. The devil often reminds me of my inadequacies as well. For example, I have yet to graduate seminary, when all my former colleagues have either graduated or are working are their doctorates! Have faith my brother! Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding (nor the devils!)


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## Afterthought (Jun 20, 2017)

William Perkins has a work _Treatise of Vocations_ that gives helpful practical and moral parameters in determining one's vocation. Howbeit, some of what he says is more helpful than others, especially seeing how his economic world is different from ours. Perhaps it is worth a read anyway.

There was also a recent thread concerning the lawfulness of fiction ("Against Fiction") that you may find of interest. I do think it is good to take into account other believers' concerns; and there are also the concerns about one's use of time. I would also point out, of course, that there are different kinds of allegory. Would you perhaps be interested in writing in the style of Christ's parables? I remember reading to some children an intriguing book about a "Mr. Yellow" and "Mr. Pink" (http://www.vintagechildrensbooksmykidloves.com/2009/05/yellow-pink.html) that, despite sounding and looking like something from Dr. Seuss, turned out to be a clever dialogue against evolution and in favor of intelligent design; perhaps you could write in that sort of style? And how about historical fiction?

I do not know enough about the literary world, but it would seem to me that it would be difficult to provide for a family by writing fiction alone, unless one made it big time? If so, that would be another consideration. Could you also be happy writing other kinds of things (writing fiction as a hobby/second income source perhaps?) and take a vocation that requires those sorts of writing?

(Note: I am actually significantly younger than you are. I'm merely throwing up some questions and comments in response to the OP in case they stimulate thought or you find one of them to be helpful.)


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## reaganmarsh (Jun 20, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Jeremy, I am appalled that you would get an impression that fiction is pretty frowned upon by believers. I am not appalled at you, merely appalled that some Christians would seek to discourage you from this path. From where I stand, we need LOTS more fiction written by believers!



Speaking as one who took an English major in undergraduate work, and also worked as an English/Literature schoolteacher, I thoroughly agree! Most of what is written today is junk.


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## MW (Jun 20, 2017)

Man is to work that he might eat. "Believers" should not be the constraining factor of one's vocation. If it is a lawful calling it should not depend on the charity of believers to support it unless it is the calling to preach the gospel, in which case believers have a moral duty to support it.

I would be wary of the idea that one is "supposed to be doing" something in particular. The divine decree concerns what comes to pass, but that is hidden from us. The commands of God prescribe our duty, and this will circumscribe our actions. Reason is given us so that we might see what is the best end and utilise the means for attaining that end. When we use reason in this way it is called "wisdom." Prayer is given that we might offer up our desires unto God, submit ourselves to to do His will and bring Him glory, and seek His blessing.

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## Von (Jun 21, 2017)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> I was on track to a literature degree and writing fiction


How are you currently employed?
Published anything before?


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## Pergamum (Jun 21, 2017)

If you like to write and do it well...then write if you can. Fiction is also worthwhile.

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## Parakaleo (Jun 21, 2017)

Brother, take comfort in the fact that your life is like a breath, and if you spend the next 40 years of your life doing something you had not intended to or don't even particularly enjoy, but it puts a roof over your family's heads and food on their table, then you may derive great satisfaction from it and enjoy the fruit of your labors more than most knowing that your contentment is in Christ. Having therefore food and raiment, let us therewith be content.

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## RamistThomist (Jun 21, 2017)

Go back to writing fiction, though if you read the memoirs of most successful writers (Stephen King, Jerry Jenkins) they will say you need a main job, since it won't payoff until much, much later.

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## RamistThomist (Jun 21, 2017)

And be skilled at writing in general. You would be surprised at what doors (often non-literature related) that clear writing can open.


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## Jeremy Ivens (Jun 21, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> Go back to writing fiction, though if you read the memoirs of most successful writers (Stephen King, Jerry Jenkins) they will say you need a main job, since it won't payoff until much, much later.



Yeah, it's almost impossible to make a serious income writing. But I'm fine with that. I've got a good job and I like physical labor.


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## Jack K (Jun 21, 2017)

I'm a writer/speaker like you. Those are my strongest skills. Vocationally, I've worked in television, higher education, non-profit marketing, children's ministry, and as an independent writer. I have two thoughts for you.

1. Don't think of yourself as limited because writing and speaking are your only skills. They are highly important skills that can make you a valuable part of a wide range of organizations. People who write and present well can get hired for all kinds of professional jobs.

2. Where you work matters more than what kind of work you do in your workplace. Young people are trained to think in terms of vocation and what-you-do. But being in a good workplace, surrounded by people who're happy to be there, accomplishing a task you believe in, is far more important than what-you-do when it comes to job satisfaction. A great strategy at your age is to find a company/organization you like and take any job they have, letting your skills become clear over time as you find your niche there.

Oh, and fiction writing is a fine endeavor. We need good fiction written by believers. Just don't expect it ever to pay the bills.

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## RamistThomist (Jun 21, 2017)

While he isn't a believer, read Stephen King's memoirs on writing. In many ways, he got lucky (his wife found _Carrie _script in the trash can and told him to publish it). And while we laugh at Jerry Jenkins because of Left Behind, he is a successful writer. Read his memoirs, too.


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## bookslover (Jun 21, 2017)

There's nothing wrong with writing fiction, Jeremy. Take it from this 64-year-old! We need more good fiction. And allegory is a perfectly acceptable genre of fiction. The Bible uses allegory, as you know. And, of course, John Bunyan's _The Pilgrim's Progress_ has been one of the most influential books of all time - for Christians and non-Christians alike.

The number of Christians who frown on literature is definitely a small minority. Some of them, at least, may be cloaked in the fog of legalism. Pay no attention to them.

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## reaganmarsh (Jun 21, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> While he isn't a believer, read Stephen King's memoirs on writing.



My wife and I read his book in college as part of our English coursework, and it was quite insightful. We both came away saying, "We've learned something here." One need not share his worldview to learn from his thoughts. 

*Be advised:* it is *not *a book for the faint of heart, due to language and off-color subject matter (apparently par for the course with what little I've read of Stephen King's other work). *Read, exercising discernment.*


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## Jeremy Ivens (Jun 21, 2017)

reaganmarsh said:


> My wife and I read his book in college as part of our English coursework, and it was quite insightful. We both came away saying, "We've learned something here." One need not share his worldview to learn from his thoughts.
> 
> *Be advised:* it is *not *a book for the faint of heart, due to language and off-color subject matter (apparently par for the course with what little I've read of Stephen King's other work). *Read, exercising discernment.*



Stupid question: Is it sin to read a bit if foul language?


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## Parakaleo (Jun 21, 2017)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> Stupid question: Is it sin to read a bit if foul language?



It depends on if you have sought it out because you want to think on foul language. That would be a violation of Philippians 4:8. If you encounter small pockets of filthy language or content in something that is otherwise appropriate, and you quickly skim ahead, I don't think you have sinned. If, however, you wade through something that is full of foul words and improper content, even trying to skim over as best you can, I think there's a level at which you are being sinful for continuing through the filth.


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## VictorBravo (Jun 21, 2017)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> But I have no sense of direction of what to do. I can write and speak well and those are my only two talents. I'm seemingly the only person agonizing over this life question...



Going back to your original premise summarized in the thread title:


> How are you all so sure of what you're supposed to do?



I can confidently say that, at 59 years old, I'm still not sure. Every morning I wonder that very question. I answer it with prayer, and then look at the tasks that God has put before me, prioritize, and get to work on them as best I can.

Inertia is deadly. For me, at least, contemplating my "true purpose" leads to inertia. But putting yourself into situations that require you to get things done builds momentum and "steerage", as it were--that is, something for your internal rudder to work on.

So, there's the day job. You might undertake some side projects involving writing skills to the glory of God. God himself only knows where such things might lead.

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## RamistThomist (Jun 21, 2017)

reaganmarsh said:


> My wife and I read his book in college as part of our English coursework, and it was quite insightful. We both came away saying, "We've learned something here." One need not share his worldview to learn from his thoughts.
> 
> *Be advised:* it is *not *a book for the faint of heart, due to language and off-color subject matter (apparently par for the course with what little I've read of Stephen King's other work). *Read, exercising discernment.*



Thanks for the reminder.


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## arapahoepark (Jun 21, 2017)

VictorBravo said:


> Going back to your original premise summarized in the thread title:
> 
> 
> I can confidently say that, at 59 years old, I'm still not sure. Every morning I wonder that very question. I answer it with prayer, and then look at the tasks that God has put before me, prioritize, and get to work on them as best I can.
> ...


The thread should be named, what is God's will for my life. Your post and Rev. Winzer's have been the most helpful and most succinct in answer such questions. And this is somwthing many books are written on.


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## Jeremy Ivens (Jun 21, 2017)

Von said:


> How are you currently employed?
> Published anything before?



I work in a tire shop. Good pay and I work with family. It's also something I feel benefits people. Not published but I've been invited to write for a journal and made the Dean's List. My interests are starting to widen into Church history, though, and I'm split.


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## reaganmarsh (Jun 21, 2017)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> Stupid question: Is it sin to read a bit if foul language?



It's not a stupid question at all. 



Parakaleo said:


> It depends on if you have sought it out because you want to think on foul language. That would be a violation of Philippians 4:8. If you encounter small pockets of filthy language or content in something that is otherwise appropriate, and you quickly skim ahead, I don't think you have sinned. If, however, you wade through something that is full of foul words and improper content, even trying to skim over as best you can, I think there's a level at which you are being sinful for continuing through the filth.



Amen. Very well said. And I'll add this: while I recall there being some language and off-color content, it's been almost 20 years since I read the book. I don't remember to what degree that language/content permeates the book...thus, my disclaimer above. Rev. Law gives wise counsel here which I'd encourage you to heed.


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## RamistThomist (Jun 21, 2017)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> Not published but I've been invited to write for a journal



That's good. It's a good start. I was an aspiring fiction writer about three years ago, until I realized I was better suited to blog posts. But I learned a lot:

1) Short Stories are easy to write but no one buys them (and unless you are Stephen King a publisher won't even look at them).
2) Poetry is slightly better, but most academics today want the garbage stuff and not the glorious poets like Samuel Johnson or Pope.
I'll post some more thoughts as I see them.


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## RamistThomist (Jun 21, 2017)

VictorBravo said:


> Inertia is deadly. For me, at least, contemplating my "true purpose" leads to inertia. But putting yourself into situations that require you to get things done builds momentum and "steerage", as it were--that is, something for your internal rudder to work on.



To footnote this, add a little bit over a long period of time. The danger, at least for fiction, is that your book may become episodic but it is still a good practice.


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## Jeremy Ivens (Jun 21, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> That's good. It's a good start. I was an aspiring fiction writer about three years ago, until I realized I was better suited to blog posts. But I learned a lot:
> 
> 1) Short Stories are easy to write but no one buys them (and unless you are Stephen King a publisher won't even look at them).
> 2) Poetry is slightly better, but most academics today want the garbage stuff and not the glorious poets like Samuel Johnson or Pope.
> I'll post some more thoughts as I see them.



I love poetry but it seems to have fallen into the hands of men and women who only indulge in their sins. Especially of the sexual kind.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jun 22, 2017)

I think that Jack, Matthew and Vic (as well as others; these come more immediately to mind) are spot on in their wise counsel. I also think that Bruce Waltke was right in his book on _Finding the Will of God_ that many Christians engage in something akin to divination in the quest for "God's will" that is perilously close to paganism. 

I think that Paul's disposition with respect to this in I Cor. 7 is very freeing and refreshing. He addresses the question there of "I'm a Christian, what now?" And he has a lovely holy indifference to what specifically the Christian does as long as he serves the Lord (does he marry or not? does he seek to be circumcised/uncircumcised? does he seek freedom from servitude?), putting it this way in v. 21: "Do not be concerned about it." We say the same to you, brother! 

Serve Christ right where you are (v. 20). And if you have opportunity to serve him more directly and fully, you may do so as you have gifts and occasion for such. For most saints, it's the day job plus some writing, cleaning the church, hospitality to those in need, etc. You must first provide for you and yours and then use the gifts God has given you to wash the feet of the saints more broadly. Some have given more detailed practical advice here and that is helpful.

Bottom line, faithfully use all the public and private means of grace, for it is here that you best discover what you most need: communion with the Triune God and with the saints as members of His mystical body. Attending to the Word and being a man of prayer will put you in the place that you most need to be to most effectively edify the saints and glorify our Savior. 

Peace,
Alan

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## Fool for Christ (Jun 22, 2017)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> I'm 28, and I feel like I'm being the through the ringer. I'm intensely frustrated because I've been praying for 2.5 years about my vocation.
> 
> When the Lord saved me, I was on track to a literature degree and writing fiction but fiction is pretty frowned upon by believers, so I halted.
> 
> ...





Jeremy Ivens said:


> I'm 28, and I feel like I'm being the through the ringer. I'm intensely frustrated because I've been praying for 2.5 years about my vocation.
> 
> When the Lord saved me, I was on track to a literature degree and writing fiction but fiction is pretty frowned upon by believers, so I halted.
> 
> ...


If you can write and speak well, use those gifts for God's glory, any and every way you can. I know a Doctor who writes and speaks very well but does not charge for his services. God makes sure he eats and gets his bills paid because he does it all for God's glory. If you are faithful to God in using your gifts to the best of your knowledge and ability, God will see to it that your needs are taken care of. I am 53 years old and I have never seen the righteous forsaken nor his seed begging bread.


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## Peairtach (Jun 25, 2017)

Kevin de Young's book on "guidance", "Just Do Something", is very good.

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## ZackF (Jun 26, 2017)

All of the advice is excellent. I find Blake's remarks especially comforting for my own life. Even if you live to be over 100 years old, it is peanuts in light of eternity. Work is work. It won't always be fulfilling in this fallen world. Into that mix we add our darkened minds and deceitful hearts. Writing to God's glory may not be the chief means He chooses to provide for you. That's more than fine. Rather it is perfect if God has chosen that for you.

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## deleteduser99 (Jul 1, 2017)

Brother,

I'm 29 and have been where you are. I have made my way into a career which I enjoy, though I can say not all the details of what I specifically want to do within that pathway are cemented. But I've also learned two lessons, and I think I'm only restating what Alan Strange has said:

- It doesn't make much difference what you do, but who you are doing it for. "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might." The work that is in front of you now is the work God gave you, so do it as though you're working for a king. Because you are. What God rewards is the attitude with which the work is done, whether it's the ideal career or not.
- Also, what is our chief purpose? "Man's chief end is to glorify God and to enjoy Him forever." Here, the job makes no difference at all, provided it's not sinful. Whatever else we do, or want to do, this is why we were created, this is task and privilege #1; and when we have this attitude, we will see we have the most satisfying and fulfilling employment of all, regardless what we are paid to do. This might not be career decision advice, but if you grasp this truth it will serve as a secure anchor for peace and contentment.

In concerns to a career choice, we are all made by God uniquely, and that individual design includes desires, wishes and hopes. I have to think that what you want to do is no small part in deciding where to go.

May God use the counsel of your pastors, close friends, and brothers and sisters in this thread to guide you to being the most fruitful worker you can be.


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