# Are There Any Attorneys on the Board?



## bradofshaw (Jan 6, 2006)

No, I'm not in need of legal counsel. I'm actually looking for career advice. One of my professors from college was ardently urging me to pursue law school. He said that it would add a dimention to ministry that is desperately needed in the world today. 

Thing is, neither have I ever had any desire to become an attorney, nor have I ever thought that I would enjoy law school. To make things stickier, I currently am working as a paralegal in a large corporate defense firm, and am trying desperately to get out of the legal profession and in to something that I feel I would enjoy more. However, the job I do now has very little to do with the legal profession (I push papers all day), I just happen to be doing it in a law firm rather than say an insurance company or a bank.

My main interests are philosophy, theology, and history. I have this kind of stated career goal of becoming a teacher. This professor seems to think I could be of so much more use to the Kingdom as an attorney. I've been strongly considering seminary study, and he seems to think it would be good to do both. I do not consider myself called to the pastorate (and neither does my professor). 

Just wondering if there was anyone who has gone through law school. What is it like, and what are the various things one might do with a law degree?

[Edited on 1-6-2006 by bradofshaw]


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## ChristopherPaul (Jan 6, 2006)

I think Fred Greco is or was an attorney?




[Edited on 1-6-2006 by ChristopherPaul]


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 6, 2006)

Yep, Fred can help!


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## fredtgreco (Jan 6, 2006)

I am. It might be easiest if we just got together, considering that you are in Jackson.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm not an attorney, but I am a paralegal who works at a Washington, DC law firm.


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## bradofshaw (Jan 6, 2006)

Fred, if you have time or are willing to spare some time, I would be happy to get together.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jan 6, 2006)

Until then, you may want to watch a lot of old Matlock reruns.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 6, 2006)

I'm a lawyer too. I'd suggest that if you have no desire to become an attorney, you should not go to law school. It is true that there are many things you could do with a law degree beside being an attorney, but law school may not be the best use of your time. 

Law School traditionally takes 3 years to complete, although some programs allow for it to be done in 4 years. It is expensive too. I was blessed enough to be able to go to a state school that didn't cost too much ($3,000 per year tuition), but I think those days are over. People are graduating from law school nowadays with up to $100,000 student loan debt. 

I think all law schools, like most graduate programs, are rigorous and challenging. It certainly can help develop discipline, but so would a good graduate program in other disciplines. Law School, perhaps more than other graduate programs, is more like a trade school. If you want to develop independent research or scholarship, you'd probably be better off in a Ph.D program in a field that you are passionate about.

I don't want to be too much of a wet blanket. I am a trial lawyer and, for the most part, I love it. But it is not what I'd call intellectually fulfilling like the study of philosophy or theology might be. I know some lawyers who went to law school because they couldn't think of anything else to do. They are, for the most part, miserable in law practice.

If you are going to devote 3-4 years of hard work for an advanced degree, do it in a field that you love or are called to pursue. 

Vic


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## Jie-Huli (Jan 6, 2006)

I also am an attorney, with a NY law firm in Hong Kong, at least for another two weeks . . . I have been in this profession for a little more than a year having graduated in 2004, but I have decided to leave my current employment now as I desire to return to London, where I was studying before I graduated.

It is an interesting question how a Christian might use legal training to be of use to the Kingdom in today's world. While I would not say I regret having gone through my legal studies, I was much more interested in law in the classical and philosophical sense than I am in actually doing the day to day work in a modern corporate law firm, which I find rather tedious to be honest. What I value most of the experience is the training in critical thinking and precision of words, but to be frank I have a feeling I would have enjoyed the study of law much more two hundred years ago before it became so commercially oriented.

And while the remuneration is rather handsome, the lawyer's life generally does not leave the amount of leisure time needed for a well-rounded life, especially for a Christian. If one has the desire to be active in service to the Church, it really is a great challenge.

On the other hand, while there have often been late nights this past year, I have no real horror stories to share. I made clear as soon as I began the work that I would never work on the Lord's Day, and the partners at my firm accepted that without quarrel. Since I began here I have never once even answered a telephone call in regards to work on the Lord's Day. And this firm has a reputation for being among the toughest there is.

However, if your main interests are "philosophy, theology and history", I would say you might not find a legal career completely satisfying, at least not in a traditional corporate law firm. I have had no experience in litigation or other such fields, so I really cannot speak to that. But to quote Mr. Micawber from _David Copperfield_:



> To a man possessed of the higher imaginative powers, the objection to legal studies is the amount of detail which they involve. Even in our professional correspondence, the mind is not at liberty to soar to any exalted form of expression. Still, it is a great pursuit. A great pursuit!



Whether that quotation is helpful to you or not I do not know, but I always have wanted a chance to quote Mr. Micawber.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli

[Edited on 1-7-2006 by Jie-Huli]


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## bradofshaw (Jan 6, 2006)

Victorbravo and Jie-Huli: you both seem to confirm my immediate reaction to law school. 

Believe me, I've seen first hand what corporate lawyers are like. I work for one of the biggest firms in Jackson, and these guys are constantly working. It is the tedium of legal details, research, arguments, etc. that make me shy away from the field. 

Still, I can also see the importance of Christians working in the legal profession. The legal system in America is really screwed up.


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## satz (Jan 6, 2006)

Hi all, 

I myself am actually in law school at the moment.

Working hours aside, are there any other moral hazards (that are unique to the profession) a christian thinking of entering this line of work should consider?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 6, 2006)

Some famous Reformed men who were trained in or practiced law:

John Calvin
William Prynne
Samuel Rutherford
John Winthrop
FranÃ§ois Hotman
George Buchanan
William Blackstone
Martin Luther
John Ponet
Christopher Goodman
John Knox
Johannes Althusius
Philippe de Mornay
Matthew Henry
Thomas Chalmers
James Henley Thornwell


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## Presbyrino (Jan 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bradofshaw_
> Believe me, I've seen first hand what corporate lawyers are like. I work for one of the biggest firms in Jackson, and these guys are constantly working. It is the tedium of legal details, research, arguments, etc. that make me shy away from the field.
> 
> Still, I can also see the importance of Christians working in the legal profession. The legal system in America is really screwed up.



Maybe politics or government is what you might want to consider working in with your law degree in focus.


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## Jie-Huli (Jan 8, 2006)

> _Originally posted by satz_
> Hi all,
> 
> I myself am actually in law school at the moment.
> ...



It is difficult for me to discern what moral hazards may be unique to this profession, because I have never had any other secular work. The main hazards I have seen would not seem to be unique to the practise of law, but perhaps they are especially sharp in this profession:

1) The practise of law is extremely detail-oriented, and every matter has so many aspects to consider. My own view is that rising to excellence in the profession (which a Christian undertaking any profession will presumably want to do) requires an extremely high level of commitment; it requires you to devote the flower of your energies and the vast majority of your time to it, and this creates an inherent conflict in the heart of a Christian who has a great desire to be active in service to the Lord. For while we may consider our calling to be a witness and done for the glory of God, there is still a great difference between fulfilling the duties of a secular calling and direct service to the Lord.

2) At least in my experience, if you work in a corporate law firm you will be immersed in an exceedingly worldly culture; the minds of your colleagues will likely be filled with little more than wealth and fleshly pleasure, and it obviously requires great grace to withstand being influenced by such surroundings.

3) There will be many tests of your commitment to absolute honesty. I personally have not been asked to do anything blatantly dishonest, and certainly there are official ethical rules and regulations which prohibit such practises, which law firms take very seriously. So you may never be asked to do anything in your official capacity which the world would consider dishonest. But we know that God's standards of honesty are much higher than man's . . . and there is generally an atmosphere of falseness and double-facedness pervading much of this profession at present, for example speaking ill of people when they are not present while maintaining perfect politeness toward them when they are, which though not regulated by any ethical rules are surely very displeasing to the Lord. So we must strive to not partake in such things, and to uphold perfect verity and genuineness in all we do.

If you would like to read more about the practical moral challenges facing Christian lawyers, you might want to order the small book called "Law: Some Christian Perspectives" published by the Lawyers Christian Fellowship in the UK, which contains articles by a number of Christian lawyers on various subjects of ethical and moral concern: http://www.lawcf.org/bookstore.php It only costs a bit more than a quid, though the postage to Australia might be a bit more.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli


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## satz (Jan 9, 2006)

Jie Huli, thanks.

Another issue i was wondering about for sometime regards christian's involment in criminal law.

1. When is it ok for a christian to defend an accused in a trial? Must a christian be convinced of a clients innocence before taking a case? Or is it ok as long as the client is not blatantly lying?

2. Is it ok for a christian to represent someone who is guilty in the sense of arguing that said person should receive a lighter punishment ( eg. 5 years in prison instead of 10)?


If anyone has any thoughts i would love to hear them..

[Edited on 1-9-2006 by satz]


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