# Wedding on the Sabbath?



## Davidius

Hey all,

I've been invited to a wedding but it is on the Lord's Day. What would you do in this situation?


----------



## Kevin

Is it in a Church?


----------



## C. Matthew McMahon

At the time, my best friend got married on that day and I did not attend.
Its the Lord's Day. After the fact, he knew it was a mistake.


----------



## Guido's Brother

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've been invited to a wedding but it is on the Lord's Day. What would you do in this situation?



In Reformed circles of Dutch heritage, it used to be common for weddings to take place in a church service on the Lord's Day. 

VanDellen and Monsma in their Church Order Commentary write, "_As to the day of the week for Church weddings, it is perfectly proper that marriages be solemnized in one of the regular Sunday services. This is to be preferred to week-day Church weddings_."

For what it's worth.


----------



## LadyFlynt

We were SBC at the time and were married after services. If we knew then what we know now, we wouldn't have done so...but then we also have eloped a year or two sooner and moved far, far away...


----------



## NaphtaliPress

The Westminster Assembly, while not condemning it as a sin, advised in its directory for public worship "that it be not on the Lord's day." In the Scottish church at the first reformation this was not the case. The first book of discipline says: "The Sunday before sermon we think most convenient for marriage, and it to be used no day else without the consent of the whole ministry." It may be [the change was due to] practical experience that the celebratory nature of the event simply was too difficult to restrain to anything appropriate for the Lord's day?


----------



## Storm

*Can't Be A "Mistake"*

Who said getting married on the "Lord's Day" is a mistake???

I used to attend Tabernacle Church of Norfolk (one of the most conservative and missions minded churches in America) and my music minster got married on a Sunday DURING the service! It was AWESOME because visitors got to sit in on a wedding for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!

I wish more Christians would get married on Sundays--during church!


----------



## Dieter Schneider

Storm said:


> Who said getting married on the "Lord's Day" is a mistake???
> 
> I used to attend Tabernacle Church of Norfolk (one of the most conservative and missions minded churches in America) and my music minster got married on a Sunday DURING the service! It was AWESOME because visitors got to sit in on a wedding for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
> 
> I wish more Christians would get married on Sundays--during church!



Scripture and verse!?


----------



## Storm

*Don't Know Your Bible*

Dieter...

Do you mean where in the BIBLE does it say to get married on Sunday???

Well...I don't think our Sundays are the real Sabbath anyway, right? Second, EVERYONE knows the wedding at Cana--the first wedding Jesus attended (and drank GRAPE juice at  ) was held on a Sunday.

Geesh! You don't know your Bible very well, do you???


----------



## ADKing

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Hey all,
> 
> I've been invited to a wedding but it is on the Lord's Day. What would you do in this situation?



Acknowledging what has been said about reformed history, my sneaking suspicion is that these are not the motivating reasons for holding this wedding on a Sabbath. Although I may be wrong, I would guess the case is the couple are not Sabbatarians. This being the case, you can be certain that you will be surrounded by people doing things inappropriate on the Sabbath (whatever we think of having the actual wedding itself on that day). The whole situation will not be conducted in a manner and with a mindset to sanctifying the day. If I am right in my guess (and I could be wrong) then I would personally opt not to attend. Not only would I want to use the Sabbath as appropriately as possible but I would not want to give the impression that I condoned what is wrong or that my convictions about the Sabbath could be set aside for more "important" things like weddings.


----------



## Davidius

Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. There seems to be consensus (of those who have spoken up at least). I just wanted to add that the wedding is _not_ going to be part of a church service. It won't be in a church, for that matter. It is being held at a place nearby called "Pine Lake Pavillion," which is, as you may have guessed, a lake with some pine trees and a pavillion.


----------



## NaphtaliPress

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Thanks to everyone who has commented so far. There seems to be consensus (of those who have spoken up at least). I just wanted to add that the wedding is _not_ going to be part of a church service. It won't be in a church, for that matter. It is being held at a place nearby called "Pine Lake Pavillion," which is, as you may have guessed, a lake with some pine trees and a pavillion.


Well then, I don't think you would regret not going; some of the consequences may make you sad, but I think you can be sure your conscience is clear. But handle the consequences "well". Often we try to do the right thing and then handle the fallout poorly. Look out for that fallout.


----------



## C. Matthew McMahon

Storm said:


> Who said getting married on the "Lord's Day" is a mistake???
> 
> I used to attend Tabernacle Church of Norfolk (one of the most conservative and missions minded churches in America) and my music minster got married on a Sunday DURING the service! It was AWESOME because visitors got to sit in on a wedding for FREEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
> 
> I wish more Christians would get married on Sundays--during church!


 
If you are not a Sabbatarian, there are bigger fish to fry on that.

For those who do hold that the Lord's Day and Sabbath are one in the same, I believe this takes care of anything that would be deemed "our pleasure", which In my humble opinion includes "our" wedding.

*Isaiah 58:13-14 *3 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing *your pleasure on my holy day*, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going *your own ways*, or *seeking your own pleasure*, or talking idly; 14 then you shall take delight *in the LORD*, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."


----------



## Poimen

While I come from the 'Dutch Reformed' tradition I think this issue is quite simple. 

1) A wedding does not fall under the element(s) of a worship service so it should not be conducted during the service. 

2) If a wedding is conducted outside of a service how will it (does it) promote the sanctity of the Lord's Day? As others have mentioned, it will most likely detract from a holy observance. 

In conclusion, I see no good reason why a wedding would take place on the Lord's Day where Christ's bride (not yours, mine or someone elses) meets to worship her bridegroom.


----------



## Guido's Brother

Poimen said:


> 2) Furthermore, in the URCNA Church Order, weddings are rightly classified as a family affair and not ecclesiastical.



Not trying to be contrary, but I don't think that's right. I believe funerals are classified as family affairs, but the jury is still out on marriages -- also with the CanRC CO and the proposed Joint Church Order.

Article 48

Consistories shall instruct and admonish those under their spiritual care who
are considering marriage to marry in the Lord. Christian marriages should be
solemnized with appropriate admonitions, promises and prayers, under the
regulation of the Consistory, with the use of the appropriate liturgical form.
Ministers shall not solemnize marriages which would conflict with the Word of
God.

Article 49

A Christian funeral is neither a service of corporate worship nor subject to
ecclesiastical government, but is a family matter, and should be conducted
accordingly.


----------



## Poimen

Guido's Brother said:


> Not trying to be contrary, but I don't think that's right. I believe funerals are classified as family affairs, but the jury is still out on marriages -- also with the CanRC CO and the proposed Joint Church Order.



Wes:

Yes you are being contrary, and yes you are correct (embarassing for me!).  I'll edit the post accordingly. 

On another note, I will soon have to publically give account of my knowledge of the URCNA CO (among other subjects) in a month's time at my _colloquium doctum_ 

Strike one for me!


----------



## Guido's Brother

Poimen said:


> Wes:
> 
> On another note, I will soon have to publically give account of my knowledge of the URCNA CO (among other subjects) in a month's time at my _colloquium doctum_



Sterkte! (I trust you can understand that little snippet of Dutch)


----------



## Kristine with a K

Anyone who has ever been a member of an active member of a bridal party can testify that the day of a wedding is anything but restful. It's stressful! 

 to weddings on Sunday.


----------



## Semper Fidelis

The issue in the Directory for Public Worship is not firm and I would have no scruples against attending a wedding on Sunday in a Church. I don't consider attending the solemn union of a man and woman before God to be recreation or a frivolous thing.

Also, I don't know how a man and woman are supposed to get married, in a Church, without some sort of liturgy. It seems kind of ironic that the institution that is used as a picture of Christ and His Church is somehow given some sort of unholy connotation. Our eternal Sabbath is even pictured as a wedding feast. Marriage shares a distinction with the Sabbath as being a Creation ordinance. It certainly is not an extra-ecclesiastical event but ought to involve the entire Body as they celebrate the union of one of their own.

I believe it may be debatable whether one ought to attend a wedding outside of a Church on Sunday but I cannot go along with those who place this event as one of many other frivolous activities that, prima facia, ought to be avoided on the Lord's Day.


----------



## Craig

Interestingtly....I'll be attending two weddings this spring which fall on Sundays.

One will be at my church directly following worship. I think Rich makes an excellent point. Being Sabbattarian, I think, especially in the case of a wedding being in a church (not during worship), it is a fine thing to be married...unless you follow it up with a meal served by a catering company with a DJ or Wedding Singer (violating the command to not work). This wedding will be followed up by a potluck.


----------



## Jerusalem Blade

David S,

Re your post #9, _*I*_ don't know that the wedding at Cana was on the 1st day (Sunday) -- would you please show me from Scripture how you arrive at that? Thanks,

Steve


----------



## Kevin

I agree with Rich. 

When my wife and I were married (in the Pres Church of Canada) the minister made a large point in the counseling session that a wedding was a public declaration of a vow before God, a time to hear Gods word read and preached, and to have the blessing of God pronounced.

It was not a time to have a "corus line" of bridal attendants in matching cocktail dresses parade through a chuch! His proposal was that it aught to be on a Sunday after services but before the benidiction.

I had never heard anything like this before. I had only known the "broadway production" style of wedding. I think the reason this is an issue for us is because of how we celebrate weddings. If we reduce it to the bare minimum as that pastor did in his talks to us I think few of the Sabbatarian concerns would still be objections.


----------



## SRoper

Poimen said:


> While I come from the 'Dutch Reformed' tradition I think this issue is quite simple.
> 
> 1) A wedding does not fall under the element(s) of a worship service so it should not be conducted during the service.
> 
> 2) If a wedding is conducted outside of a service how will it (does it) promote the sanctity of the Lord's Day? As others have mentioned, it will most likely detract from a holy observance.
> 
> In conclusion, I see no good reason why a wedding would take place on the Lord's Day where Christ's bride (not yours, mine or someone elses) meets to worship her bridegroom.



Regarding point 1), if a wedding primarily consists of the exchanging of vows, and if vows are a part of religious worship (WCF 22), then it seems appropriate to include a wedding as part of a worship service.


----------



## staythecourse

*I have little problem with a Lord's Day wedding*

If believers realize the marriage ceremony closely resembles the union Christ has with the church, talk about a meaningful ceremony on our Sabbath! What a humbling celebration! The Lord's Day should ADD to the event rather than detract, with great respect to my brother McMahon.


----------



## Poimen

SRoper said:


> Regarding point 1), if a wedding primarily consists of the exchanging of vows, and if vows are a part of religious worship (WCF 22), then it seems appropriate to include a wedding as part of a worship service.



Private vows? Hardly. I will leave it to others to explain the WCF (since I am no expert) but I do believe that the divines were largely opposed to having marriage as part of the service. 

It seems quite a stretch to make fit a wedding into one element of worship where the wedding continues to be an 'entity' itself. 

But even if you were correct, the wedding would then have to be stripped down to bare vows to be included as an lawful element. At this point I think it would be a stretch to say you have a wedding any longer.


----------



## KMK

The question is not whether the solomnization of vows is allowable, but is the 'Bunny Hop' allowable on the Lord's Day.


----------



## Storm

*Wow! Hot Topic!*

Jerusalem Blade...(what does that mean?)...

Okay, grab your Bible and turn to John 1:29...the next day (Monday), then John 1:35...the next day (Tuesday), then John 1:43...the next day (Wednesday), then John 2:1...three days later (Saturday!) Jesus went to the wedding. Make sense?

I think folks are really taking this personally...come on folks...if ANYONE is getting married (on Saturday OR Sunday) rather than shacking up...we should be there with bells on...don't you think???


----------



## Semper Fidelis

Poimen said:


> Private vows? Hardly. I will leave it to others to explain the WCF (since I am no expert) but I do believe that the divines were largely opposed to having marriage as part of the service.



Wedding vows are not private vows Rev. Kok. They are very much public and made before God, the State, and witnesses.


----------



## Poimen

Rich:

They are private insofar that only a few partake. Besides, as I noted, I hardly think this figures in the category of a religious vow as intended by the divines. 

Furthermore, the point of Ephesians 5 is to express the relationship between Christ and His bride not the other way around. I believe it would detract from the glorious relationship of the church (corporate body) to her Head to witness a wedding on a Sunday between two of the Lord's children.


----------



## tcalbrecht

SemperFideles said:


> The issue in the Directory for Public Worship is not firm and I would have no scruples against attending a wedding on Sunday *in a Church*. I don't consider attending the solemn union of a man and woman before God to be recreation or a frivolous thing.
> 
> Also, I don't know how a man and woman are supposed to get married, *in a Church,* without some sort of liturgy. It seems kind of ironic that the institution that is used as a picture of Christ and His Church is somehow given some sort of unholy connotation. Our eternal Sabbath is even pictured as a wedding feast. Marriage shares a distinction with the Sabbath as being a Creation ordinance. It certainly is not an extra-ecclesiastical event but ought to involve the entire Body as they celebrate the union of one of their own.
> 
> I believe it may be debatable whether one ought to attend a wedding *outside of a Church* on Sunday but I cannot go along with those who place this event as one of many other frivolous activities that, prima facia, ought to be avoided on the Lord's Day.



Sounds awfully Roman Catholic. Either persons may marry on the Lord's Day, or they may not. The setting is inconsequential. 



> Marriage shares a distinction with the Sabbath as being a Creation ordinance.



The real consummation of the marriage is the joining sexually of man and woman. (Modern ceremonies are merely a quaint but nonbiblical public affirmation.) I don't think anyone would suggest this is appropriate for public witness, so your identification of marriage and sabbath is a bit stretched, in my opinion. 

All men are commanded to observe the Sabbath and to worship God, but not all men are commanded to marry, so a marriage ceremony is not an appropriate activity for the Lord’s Day public worship of God.


----------



## tcalbrecht

staythecourse said:


> If believers realize the marriage ceremony closely resembles the union Christ has with the church, talk about a meaningful ceremony on our Sabbath! What a humbling celebration! The Lord's Day should ADD to the event rather than detract, with great respect to my brother McMahon.



Christ certainly realized it, yet He did not command his church to hold "weddings" on the Lord's Day as part of His worship.


----------



## Chris

tcalbrecht said:


> Christ certainly realized it, yet He did not command his church to hold "weddings" on the Lord's Day as part of His worship.




Which day did He command us to perform weddings on?


----------



## tcalbrecht

Chris said:


> Which day did He command us to perform weddings on?



God did not command His Church to perform weddings on any day. God nowhere sanctioned ministers of the gospel to perform wedding ceremonies. Ministers have been recognized by the state as having the power to perform such ceremonies, along with secular judges and magistrates.

God gave His people wide latitude to conduct weddings in any way that does not violate His revealed will, including "remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy".

Question; if the state were suddenly to disallow ministers from performing wedding ceremonies, on what basis, if any, would you protest this action?


----------



## Kevin

How about the idea that the minister is a lesser magistrate? 

In common law the minister is (along with certain other professions) considered a defacto commishoner of oaths. This is an archaic office similar to justice of the peace in the peace in the USA. This usage is retained in marriage by virtue of the administration of the vow or oath. An other place that keeps this older usage is in passport applications, or applications for official govt documents


----------



## Chris

tcalbrecht said:


> if the state were suddenly to disallow ministers from performing wedding ceremonies, on what basis, if any, would you protest this action?




That's way, way too loaded of a question for me to even consider answering it on this board. That ranks right up there with 'why padeos are wrong in 30 words or less'.


----------



## Hamalas

In response to "Storm's" comment regarding Jesus attending a wedding on the sabbath: Your entire argument is based on the assumption that the "next day" in John 1:29 was a Monday. Maybe I'm just missing it, where do you get that from? Also just a thought, maybe your words were a little harsh in your posts. 


Storm said:


> Dieter...
> 
> Do you mean where in the BIBLE does it say to get married on Sunday???
> 
> Well...I don't think our Sundays are the real Sabbath anyway, right? Second, EVERYONE knows the wedding at Cana--the first wedding Jesus attended (and drank GRAPE juice at  ) was held on a Sunday.
> 
> Geesh! You don't know your Bible very well, do you???



2 Timothy 2:24-26 "And the Lord's servant must not be quarrelsome but kind to everyone, able to teach, patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness. God may perhaps grant them repentance leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will."

If you think your brother is wrong by all means show him his error by the Word of God! 
 But we must always do so with gentleness and love. I don't say this to condemn this is a great area of struggle for me, by God's grace I am beginning to change, so just think about it.


----------



## Romans922

Aren't vows/oaths sometimes part of Public Worship?


----------



## Davidius

Romans922 said:


> Aren't vows/oaths sometimes part of Public Worship?



The wedding wasn't part of a worship service.


----------



## bookslover

SemperFideles said:


> The issue in the Directory for Public Worship is not firm and I would have no scruples against attending a wedding on Sunday in a Church. I don't consider attending the solemn union of a man and woman before God to be recreation or a frivolous thing.
> 
> Also, I don't know how a man and woman are supposed to get married, in a Church, without some sort of liturgy. It seems kind of ironic that the institution that is used as a picture of Christ and His Church is somehow given some sort of unholy connotation. Our eternal Sabbath is even pictured as a wedding feast. Marriage shares a distinction with the Sabbath as being a Creation ordinance. It certainly is not an extra-ecclesiastical event but ought to involve the entire Body as they celebrate the union of one of their own.
> 
> I believe it may be debatable whether one ought to attend a wedding outside of a Church on Sunday but I cannot go along with those who place this event as one of many other frivolous activities that, prima facia, ought to be avoided on the Lord's Day.



This is exactly the sort of post I was about to write; Rich just beat me to it. Seeing that marriage is a divine institution, what better way to emphasize that than to have a wedding on the Lord's Day - even making it a part of a full-fledged worship service? God is glorified because of the acknowledgement the couple is making by consciously having a wedding on the Lord's day.

If it genuinely glorifies God, it is appropriate for the Lord's Day.


----------



## tcalbrecht

bookslover said:


> This is exactly the sort of post I was about to write; Rich just beat me to it. *Seeing that marriage is a divine institution, what better way to emphasize that than to have a wedding on the Lord's Day - even making it a part of a full-fledged worship service? * God is glorified because of the acknowledgement the couple is making by consciously having a wedding on the Lord's day.



Civil government is also a divine institution. Would you make the installation of the magistrate a part of pubic sabbath-day worship?



bookslover said:


> If it genuinely glorifies God, it is appropriate for the Lord's Day.



That sounds fundamentally Anglican or Lutheran.

I'm still looking for a consistent RPW (i.e., biblical) argument is all this discussion.


----------



## x.spasitel

A wedding on the Sabbath (to me) seems to be hearkening back to the days of Rome where marriage was considered a sacrament.


----------



## bookslover

tcalbrecht said:


> Civil government is also a divine institution. Would you make the installation of the magistrate a part of pubic sabbath-day worship?



No, I wouldn't. The civil magistrate takes care of the secular side of things (so to speak). But marriage is primarily a religious act; it exists on the religious side of things (again, so to speak). In fact, to conduct a wedding on the Lord's Day, in the context of a worship service, would serve to emphasize this fact - that, along with the human witnesses, and in accordance with the laws of the state, a wedding takes place _primarily in the sight of God._

For two Christians entering into marriage, a wedding, especially on the Lord's Day, could be considered an act of worship, when properly considered.

As far as conducting weddings on the Lord's Day, the Bible has nothing to say on the matter, either way. However, as marriage is a divine institution, I believe that a Christian couple marrying on the Lord's Day is entirely proper.


----------



## bookslover

x.spasitel said:


> A wedding on the Sabbath (to me) seems to be hearkening back to the days of Rome where marriage was considered a sacrament.



Well, I think that merely because the Roman Catholic Church did something with wrong motives doesn't mean that we can't do the same thing, only with proper motives.

We know that marriage is not a sacrament; and it is, in my opinion, still proper to have a wedding on the Lord's Day.


----------



## tcalbrecht

bookslover said:


> No, I wouldn't. The civil magistrate takes care of the secular side of things (so to speak). *But marriage is primarily a religious act; it exists on the religious side of things (again, so to speak). *In fact, to conduct a wedding on the Lord's Day, in the context of a worship service, would serve to emphasize this fact - that, along with the human witnesses, and in accordance with the laws of the state, a wedding takes place _primarily in the sight of God._
> 
> For two Christians entering into marriage, a wedding, especially on the Lord's Day, could be considered an act of worship, when properly considered.
> 
> As far as conducting weddings on the Lord's Day, the Bible has nothing to say on the matter, either way. However, as marriage is a divine institution, I believe that a Christian couple marrying on the Lord's Day is entirely proper.



I'm afraid I see this as a pragmatic argument, and not a biblical one.

Using the RPW as our paradigm, "religious acts" permitted on the Sabbath are strictly defined by God in His word. 

First of all I think there is some ambiguity in your comments. You appear to be confusing “marriage” (a covenant relationship) and “marriage ceremony” (the initiation of that relationship). Marriage is not an act per se. The ceremony is an act. The marriage ceremony is nowhere defined as a “religious act” by God in His word. If it is really marriage you have in mind, and not the ceremony of initiation, then every Sabbath we are called to celebrate every marriage in worship. But I do not think that is what you want.

In fact, based on your apparent presuppositions, one could make the argument that a civil magistrate declaring a murderer guilty and pronouncing a death sentence is just as much a “religious act” since it results from definite obedience to the moral law of God and, therefore, appropriate for Sabbath worship.

I still get the sense that there is more pragmatism and sentimentalism (and a touch of Romish sacramentalism) in your position that explicit command or “good and necessary” from the Bible.


----------

