# Leading the Congregation: Who?



## ChristopherPaul (Feb 6, 2006)

When leading the congregation in anything such as proclaiming the Apostle's creed, or in praying the prayer of confession, or in saying the words of encouragement, who is permitted to do this?

Can just any male lead the assembled congregation in prayer or should he be an appointed elder?


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## biblelighthouse (Feb 6, 2006)

At my church, any male can do it.


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## wsw201 (Feb 6, 2006)

Within Presbyterian polity, it should only be those who are called to lead the congregation in such instances. That would primarily be the Teaching Elder or a Ruling Elder.


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## ChristopherPaul (Feb 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wsw201_
> Within Presbyterian polity, it should only be those who are called to lead the congregation in such instances. That would primarily be the Teaching Elder or a Ruling Elder.



But not necessarily?

So any male can address the congregation in a leadership role including impromptu prayer?


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## wsw201 (Feb 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by wsw201_
> ...



I said "should" because some Presbyterian churches do allow non-officers (including women) to lead the congregation with Scripture readings, prayers, everything but preaching, but I don't agree with this and it does not coincide with the Standards or the BCO. So I'll revise my answer: Only Elders can lead the congregation. That is what they are called to do.


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## Scott (Feb 6, 2006)

From the Larger Catechism:
Q156: Is the word of God to be read by all? 
A156: Although all are not to be permitted to read the word publicly to the congregation,[1] yet all sorts of people are bound to read it apart by themselves,[2] and with their families:[3] to which end, the holy scriptures are to be translated out of the original into vulgar languages.[4] 

1. Deut. 31:9, 11-13; Neh. 8:2-3; 9:3-5
2. Deut. 17:19; Rev. 1:3; John 5:39; Isa. 34:16
3. Deut. 6:6-9; Gen. 18:17, 19; Psa. 78:5-7
4. I Cor. 14:6, 9, 11-12, 15-16, 24, 27-28


(As a note, this is routinely ignored)


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## Mike (Feb 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> (As a note, this is routinely ignored)


On a number of levels.


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## ChristopherPaul (Feb 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by wsw201_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Could you show me how this does not coincide with the Standards or the BCO?



> _Originally posted by Scott_
> From the Larger Catechism:
> Q156: Is the word of God to be read by all?
> A156: Although all are not to be permitted to read the word publicly to the congregation,[1] yet all sorts of people are bound to read it apart by themselves,[2] and with their families:[3] to which end, the holy scriptures are to be translated out of the original into vulgar languages.[4]
> ...



But this pertains to the reading of the word of God. What about the leading of the prayers or creeds?


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## Scott (Feb 7, 2006)

Here is a longer description of a traditional reformed understanding of who should do what in public worship. It is from the OPC Book of Church Order (available online here). Note that the assignment of who does what is based on the understanding of the different parts of worship. There are essentially two parts - those performed by man and those performed on behalf of God. For the things performed on behalf of God, only a minister is lawfully able to do them, because He has been ordained as God's representative on earth in a way that others have not.


> CHAPTER III
> THE USUAL PARTS OF PUBLIC WORSHIP
> 1. As a service of public worship is in its essence a meeting of God and his people, *the parts of the service are of two kinds: those which are performed on behalf of God, and those which are performed by the congregation*. In the former the worshippers are receptive, in the latter they are active. It is reasonable that these two elements be made to alternate as far as possible.
> 
> ...


I deleted some parts. You can read the whole thing via the link above. Anyway, the key is to understanding what is being done and why it is being done. The reading of scripture at public worship is not like listenting to scripture on tape or over the radio. Christ is present and speaking through His minister in a supernatural way. 

[Edited on 2-7-2006 by Scott]


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## AdamM (Feb 7, 2006)

We use teaching elders, ruling elders and seminary students/ministerial candidates.


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## blhowes (Feb 7, 2006)

A pastor calls the visiting missionaries to come forward and speak about their mission field. The pastor first asks the husband to talk about it from his perspective and then asks the wife from hers. Since the pastor asked her to speak, is she speaking under the authority of the pastor, or would she still be usurping the authority of the pastor and the other men in the congregation by speaking?


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## Scott (Feb 7, 2006)

Bob: I see it less as a matter of authority and more as a matter of inserting some act besides worship into a worship service. Is a speech by a missionary a form of public worship? I don't think so. It is useful and edifying, but not an element of worship. It should occur either before the call to worship or after the benediction. Else, it does not really make sense.


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## wsw201 (Feb 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Bob: I see it less as a matter of authority and more as a matter of inserting some act besides worship into a worship service. Is a speech by a missionary a form of public worship? I don't think so. It is useful and edifying, but not an element of worship. It should occur either before the call to worship or after the benediction. Else, it does not really make sense.


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## blhowes (Feb 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Bob: I see it less as a matter of authority and more as a matter of inserting some act besides worship into a worship service. Is a speech by a missionary a form of public worship? I don't think so. It is useful and edifying, but not an element of worship. It should occur either before the call to worship or after the benediction. Else, it does not really make sense.


I've seen it done during the service, but I've also seen it done between services during the 'missionary banquet'. Do you think that's acceptable? I would tend to think not, but I could be wrong.


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## Scott (Feb 7, 2006)

I don't see a problem in having them speak between services. As a practical matter, having missionaries and other guest speakers during services is common in protestant groups. I think it is indicative of how people view what is happening during a service.


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