# "How to Become a Christian" Webpages



## Miller (May 12, 2008)

What do yall think about church and denomination websites with "How to become a Christian" page? Wouldn't the title itself imply a works based salvation? This is an example of what I mean 


> HOW TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN
> 
> Admit your sin. (God, I have messed up.)
> Be willing to turn from your sin.
> ...


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## FenderPriest (May 12, 2008)

Miller said:


> What do yall think about church and denomination websites with "How to become a Christian" page? Wouldn't the title itself imply a works based salvation? This is an example of what I mean
> 
> 
> > HOW TO BECOME A CHRISTIAN
> ...



I think they can be helpful. The page tittle might more appropriately be labeled, "What does it mean to be a Christian?" I don't think people intend for their efforts to help people come to the Lord to have the flavor of works - but they do nonetheless. As for the above quote, Owen helped me see the faulty logic in including "Jesus died for your (individual) sins" as the nature of the Gospel offer. It should more appropriately be stated that Jesus Christ is the only satisfactory offering for sins before God and that the Gospel is that you should trust in him alone for salvation. As Packer points out in this Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God, the Gospel isn't that Jesus died for everybody, or that Jesus died for x people, those things are or are not true about the Gospel; rather, the Gospel is that Jesus Christ is offered as the only way of reconciliation with God for our justly deserved condemnation for sin.

If I'm off on that, I'd appreciate any help in correcting that understanding though!


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## christianyouth (May 12, 2008)

What about when the Apostles answered the question, "What must I DO to be saved"? Or when they asked Peter, after coming under conviction for crucifying Jesus, what must we DO, and Peter says, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". It seems that some would consider this work based salvation. It seems like they were explaining, 'How to become a Christian'.

A distinction that people have told me that has helped me on this issue, is that we are _passive_ in regeneration, but _active_ in salvation. That is, God takes out our wicked, God hating, Adamic heart and gives us a new heart(Eze 36.). He implants spiritual life to us. Am I justified at this point? No. Now with a new heart that is in accordance to the things of God, the Gospel is given and I freely, actively, respond to the Gospel. I place my trust in Christ and repent of my sins, and have the 'benefits of the atonement applied 
to me by faith'.

So, there is something for someone to do to be saved. Repent and Believe the Gospel. That is how they can become a Christian. The benefits of the atonement can be applied to them if they repent of their sins and trust in Christ.


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## Pergamum (Jun 4, 2008)

We should always be pointing the way to salvation and explaining how it happens. Some explanations are woefully inadequte, but nevertheless, this shouldn't be a reason to forsake the practice of explaining the Gospel - just striving to explain it better.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 4, 2008)

christianyouth said:


> What about when the Apostles answered the question, "What must I DO to be saved"? Or when they asked Peter, after coming under conviction for crucifying Jesus, what must we DO, and Peter says, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". It seems that some would consider this work based salvation. It seems like they were explaining, 'How to become a Christian'.
> 
> A distinction that people have told me that has helped me on this issue, is that we are _passive_ in regeneration, but _active_ in salvation. That is, God takes out our wicked, God hating, Adamic heart and gives us a new heart(Eze 36.). He implants spiritual life to us. Am I justified at this point? No. Now with a new heart that is in accordance to the things of God, the Gospel is given and I freely, actively, respond to the Gospel. I place my trust in Christ and repent of my sins, and have the 'benefits of the atonement applied
> to me by faith'.
> ...



A good answer but let's take this further.

A person is not a Christian unless they are baptized and taught the Christian faith. A Church is required to be a Christian.

I don't have a problem with posting what the nature of the Gospel is but these "How do I become a Christian thing" with the prayer at the end and the assurance that "...if you prayed this then you're a Christian now..." is bunk. You're a Christian when you're baptized and in a Church.


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## danmpem (Jun 4, 2008)

This is interesting for me, because this very thing that we're talking about, I have been wondering for a while.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 4, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> I don't have a problem with posting what the nature of the Gospel is but these "How do I become a Christian thing" with the prayer at the end and the assurance that "...if you prayed this then you're a Christian now..." is bunk. *You're a Christian when you're baptized and in a Church.*




I disagree with this last statement. Baptism doesn't make one a Christian anymore than being a cooked piece of food makes the piece of food a cookie. 

If you belong to Christ you are his. You must belong to Christ to be a Christian. 



> (Joh 5:24) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.





> (Rom 8:11) But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.





> (1Jn 5:11) And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
> 
> (1Jn 5:12) He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.
> 
> (1Jn 5:13) These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.






> (Rom 8:9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you.* Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.*


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 4, 2008)

This one is my favorite. 
DYKFS - English - 1

I just noticed that Webmaster's can put it on their sites now. 

Evangelism Explosion International


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 4, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > I don't have a problem with posting what the nature of the Gospel is but these "How do I become a Christian thing" with the prayer at the end and the assurance that "...if you prayed this then you're a Christian now..." is bunk. *You're a Christian when you're baptized and in a Church.*
> ...



I assume that you did not intend, by those verses, to overthrow the analogy of faith?

Is a man a Christian who is not a disciple? Can you give me an example, from the Scriptures, of a man who is a Christian who is not a disciple or what a Christian would look like apart from the visible Church?

Remember, the disciples were first called Christians at Antioch. Christianity and discipleship cannot be separated.

Or perhaps what you're telling me is that you actually don't know any Christians because they're all in the invisible Church even if the visible Church at Antioch knew who they were when called Christians.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 4, 2008)

I think a man can belong to Christ and be a Christian before he is baptized. It is by faith alone.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 4, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I think a man can belong to Christ and be a Christian before he is baptized. It is by faith alone.



So Christ's command to His apostles to make disciples by baptizing them and teaching them everything He commanded is a superfluous step to what it means to be a disciple?

As I see it, you detach the elective work of God (the hidden things) from the revealed things. The revealed things belong to us Randy. Where do the Scriptures reveal that a man may be a disciple apart from baptism and the doctrine of the Apostles? You speak theoretically of the things hidden but the revealed things of the Covenant of Grace show a sign ordained by God to mark out those that are Christians. 

I don't say of myself that I'm a Christian. The Church administers that with the authority vested in it by Christ. Your ideas are not mediated by the Word. God's election remains veiled in a cloud of mystery and you would have it remain there without reference to the revealed things about what God states are the requirements to be called one of His disciples on this Earth. You don't preach the hidden things to a man (if God has elected you then you are a Christian and we'll get around to baptizing you), you preach the revealed things (repent and be baptized).


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 5, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> So Christ's command to His apostles to make disciples by baptizing them and teaching them everything He commanded is a superfluous step to what it means to be a disciple?



We were discussing what is a Christian. I guess we need to define Christian and disciple. I do believe they may be synonymous but not necessarily in all situations.

And you seem to make an assumption that I think baptism is a superfulous step. I didn't say it wasn't a necessary step. I said I think one can belong to Christ, having the Spirit of Christ (thus be a Christian), without having been baptized. I don't think Baptism is makes one a Christian as does a persons faith in what Christ has done for him and on behalf of him does. 



> As I see it, you detach the elective work of God (the hidden things) from the revealed things. The revealed things belong to us Randy. Where do the Scriptures reveal that a man may be a disciple apart from baptism and the doctrine of the Apostles? You speak theoretically of the things hidden but the revealed things of the Covenant of Grace show a sign ordained by God to mark out those that are Christians.



I do believe that a man can become a disciple and a believer before he gets baptized. Why would a man be baptized if he wasn't being taught and disciplined in the faith? I am not speaking theoretically. You are flattening out and pressing together things that are not necessarily to be pressed together the way you are. Yes, they belong together but not they way you are making them fit.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 5, 2008)

Again, I ask Randy, if Matthew 28:18-20 is superfluous. If a man _is_ a disciple before he is _made_ a disciple by the Church then what was Christ commanding them to do?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 5, 2008)

Okay....

Does the text say make disciples by baptizing them? Or does it say go forth and make disciples, baptizing them? 


Do you understand my question? I am not sure I am showing the differences in the questions well enough in my questions.

I ask can one be a Christian and not belong to Christ? Can one be a disciple not having been baptized yet? 

I think you would respond with Yes to the first and a no to the second question. 
NASB


> (Mat 28:19) "Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,



KJV


> (Mat 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:





The text reads "make disciples, Baptizing them. Who are they baptizing? The disciples. Not everyone who is taught. 



Gill


> baptizing them; not all nations, for the antecedent to the relative "them", cannot be "all nations"; since παντα τα εθνη, the words for "all nations", are of the neuter gender, whereas αυτους, "them", is of the masculine: nor can it be thought that it should be the mind of Christ, that all the individuals of all nations should be baptized, as Heathens, Turks, and Jews; but μαθευτας, "disciples", supposed and contained in the word μαθετευσατε, "teach", or "make disciples"; such as are taught, and made disciples by teaching, or under the ministry of the word by the Spirit of God: Christ's orders are to "baptize": טבלו, "dip" them, as Munster's Hebrew Gospel renders it; that is, in water, which, though not expressed, is implied; for with no other baptism could the apostles baptize: not with the Holy Ghost, and with fire; for this was Christ's peculiar prerogative; but with water, which they in obedience to this commission practised, Act_8:36, and which was to be done


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 5, 2008)

No matter how you slice the verb, Randy, the tenor upon Christ's command is that being marked out as His in this world means you are under the visible discipleship of His Church. A person is not already a disciple before they are in the process of being discipled.

I certainly hope that, as an _introductory_ announcement of what it is to be a Christian, you are not telling men that they may well be Christians apart from the Church of Jesus Christ. This, after all, is the nature of the post itself.

I'm not at all confusing categories by insisting that the visible Covenant must mark a man out from among the world before the world knows he's marked out regardless of what might have happened by the work of the Spirit. You are holding out the false notion that the invisible and visible can, in fact, be _visibly_ separated from one another. It is one thing to _distinguish_ between the invisible and visible but quite another to separated them.

If a man walks up to me and asks me how to be a Christian, I'm not going to reply: "Well, you might already be a Christian because you could have been elected from the foundation of the world...." That hidden decree belongs to God. The revealed things belong to me: "Believe and be baptized...."

I don't know where you believe you find the Scriptural warrant to keep insisting upon this notion of extra-Church discipleship. Again, I note that it was the disciples who were called Christians and not some theoretical, invisible group that the world would never be able to identify.


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## Pergamum (Jun 5, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> christianyouth said:
> 
> 
> > What about when the Apostles answered the question, "What must I DO to be saved"? Or when they asked Peter, after coming under conviction for crucifying Jesus, what must we DO, and Peter says, "Repent and be baptized for the remission of sins". It seems that some would consider this work based salvation. It seems like they were explaining, 'How to become a Christian'.
> ...



Hmmmm....


But one can be baptized (as an infant) and not yet taught for years due to infancy (maybe only goo goo ga ga) and still be considered a Christian in some circles, right?


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 5, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > christianyouth said:
> ...



Years? How long do you wait to train your children in the fear and admonition of the Lord.

I assume you must agree with me that Christianity requires discipleship but you simply disagree about whether or not your children are disciples even though you treat them that way.


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## Pergamum (Jun 5, 2008)

0 to 2 years is years.....

But I do grant your point....discipleship is key, though I would not emphasize baptism as much as you. 

I would deny that the children of believers are part of the church or deserve the name Christian until a profession and baptism is given...but this is a tired ol' rut ont he PB and I hate to get into credo versus paedo again...


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## cih1355 (Jun 9, 2008)

I may be wrong, but I think PuritanCovenanter is equating becoming a Christian with receiving justification from God. God can justify people before they are baptized.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 9, 2008)

cih1355 said:


> I may be wrong, but I think PuritanCovenanter is equating becoming a Christian with receiving justification from God. God can justify people before they are baptized.



Yes, I believe there are multiple ocassions in the Scriptures where a man believes the Gospel and is then baptized. I don't believe justification is necessarily subsequent to or prior to baptism because some men believe prior to their baptism while others believe (truly) after they are baptized (whether baptized as children or adults).

I am not arguing for baptismal regeneration here nor some sort of Church of Christ equation. I'm simply pointing out that baptism and discipleship are intimately linked with what it is to be a Christian. The OP asked about a formula that makes "becoming a Christian" a private affair as if the person can learn a few key points, pray a prayer and Voila! they are a Christian. I was pointing out that becoming a Christian is not, fundamentally, a private affair but is of the nature of the Church to proclaim the Gospel which converts and then to mark men out for visible discipleship and then to disciple them as Christ has commanded.

It simply doesn't do for the Church to speak in the abstract about whether men are or are not elect, theoretically, outside the Church. The revealed things belong to us and our children and the revealed things impose a responsibility on the Church to administer the means of Grace that God ordinarily uses to save His elect.


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