# Fuller Seminary President / Prayer to Saints



## Scott (Jun 5, 2007)

The president of Fuller Seminary is warming up to the idea of prayer to the saints: Communion with the Saints. 

He seems to have encountered a common Catholic argument that asking a departed saint to pray us is akin to asking a friend to pray for us. 

That may sound benign (although it too has problems), but this omits a central theological reason for prayer to the saints, namely that departed saints can proffer their merits to God in exchange for his attention. This is from the Catechism of the Catholic Church (ellipses in original):

956: The intercession of the saints. "Being more closely united to Christ, those who dwell in heaven fix the whole Church more firmly in holiness. . . . They do not cease to intercede with the Father for us, *as they proffer the merits which they acquired on earth* through the one mediator between God and men, Christ Jesus . . . . So by their fraternal concern is our weakness greatly helped.”

And I don't think that this is a general view that God listens to the righteous. Rather, it seems to me that 956 is connected to the idea that in heaven there is a treasury of merits, filled with the merits of Christ, Mary, and the saints. See CCC 1476-1477.

1476 We also call these spiritual goods of the communion of saints the Church's treasury, which is "not the sum total of the material goods which have accumulated during the course of the centuries. On the contrary the 'treasury of the Church' is the infinite value, which can never be exhausted, which Christ's merits have before God. They were offered so that the whole of mankind could be set free from sin and attain communion with the Father. In Christ, the Redeemer himself, the satisfactions and merits of his Redemption exist and find their efficacy."88 
1477 "This treasury includes as well the prayers and good works of the Blessed Virgin Mary. They are truly immense, unfathomable, and even pristine in their value before God. In the treasury, too, are the prayers and good works of all the saints, all those who have followed in the footsteps of Christ the Lord and by his grace have made their lives holy and carried out the mission in the unity of the Mystical Body."89

Now, one theological justification for prayer to saints is that they proffer their merits. I think this is a obviously big problem and should be raised when discussing the issue with Catholic who try and frame the issue as "can't we just ask others to pray for us?"

Scott


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## R. Scott Clark (Jun 5, 2007)

Belgic Confession Art 26:

...Although he was "in the form of God," he nevertheless "emptied himself," taking the form of "a man" and "a servant" for us; and he made himself "completely like his brothers." Suppose we had to find another intercessor. Who would love us more than he who gave his life for us, even though "we were his enemies"? And suppose we had to find one who has prestige and power. Who has as much of these as he who is seated "at the right hand of the Father," and who has all power "in heaven and on earth"? And who will be heard more readily than God's own dearly beloved Son?

So then, sheer unbelief has led to the practice of dishonoring the saints, instead of honoring them. That was something the saints never did nor asked for, but which in keeping with their duty, as appears from their writings, they consistently refused.

We should not plead here that we are unworthy--for it is not a question of offering our prayers on the basis of our own dignity but only on the basis of the excellence and dignity of Jesus Christ, whose righteousness is ours by faith....


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## R. Scott Clark (Jun 5, 2007)

Response here on the HB.

rsc


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