# World of Warcraft



## T.A.G. (Jun 11, 2011)

I do not know much about the game, do you think Christians should play it (that is of course if they have taken care of the most important things)?


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## Rufus (Jun 11, 2011)

Other than getting addicted to it (which many people do), and it becoming an idol. I couldn't say it is, unless you have issues with video game magic and video game mythology. I suppose its a Christian Liberty issue.


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## kodos (Jun 11, 2011)

Disclaimer: I may be biased, as I work in the video game industry (Programming Lead).

I'd treat video gaming, like anything else that is highly addictive with a sense of caution. I know brothers I work with who have had struggles with video games and they are extremely cautious before they play a game. Then there are others like myself who have never had a major issue with games.

MMOs like World of Warcraft have another layer of danger because they reward the players who spend hundreds of hours playing them as they never end, and there's a social/peer pressure component to it. 

Just be aware of all these potential dangers, and make sure that you are not being mastered by it. But if you are able to keep it in its proper place - be thankful to God that He gives us things like games for our enjoyment in this fallen world.


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## T.A.G. (Jun 12, 2011)

Is there black magic like harry potter type


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## Skyler (Jun 12, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> Is there black magic like harry potter type



I don't know about the Harry Potter type, but there is magic.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 12, 2011)

I used to play online games, such as World of Warcraft, when I was still an unbeliever. My own experience was that rather than me controlling and benefitting of the game, the game engulfed me and filled its appetite. When it comes to Christian Liberty, I always remember what John Piper said:


> Don't ask, "Am I permitted to do this as a Christian?" Instead ask, "Am I a slave to this act? Is this food or drink or sex or hobby or work becoming my master instead of my servant?"



Games like World of Warcraft are extremely dangerous! Be very cautious! Just because you are permitted as a Christian to do all sorts of things, it doesn't mean you can handle just anything. Why take such dangerous routes, when there are plenty of others you can benefit of at a much less level of temptation?


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## Christopher88 (Jun 12, 2011)

Liberty says yes, you can play it but keep in mind what Paul wrote to the Corinthians. "all things are permissible but not all things are beneficial" 
Pray about it my friend. The spirit of God will guide you on the choice.


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## Skyler (Jun 12, 2011)

Why do you want to play it? Do your motives glorify God?


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## lynnie (Jun 12, 2011)

I hate those games. My boys all have had varied addictions at times but three of them don't play at all anymore. One of them still does and he sold one of his characters on ebay for $ 670.00...it had a lot of powers and was at level 65. Who is crazy enough to pay 670 bucks to get an unreal identity on a cyber game? Then in three weeks he built up another guy in his spare time and sold him cheap for 125.00 to a friend.

I don't see how we can forbid it, a game is game and so is chess or scrabble. But the potential for addiction is enormous.


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## Skyler (Jun 12, 2011)

lynnie said:


> I don't see how we can forbid it, a game is game and so is chess or scrabble. But the potential for addiction is enormous.



Impose an age limit?

No smoking/drinking/world of warcraft until you're old enough to handle it?


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## T.A.G. (Jun 12, 2011)

My question is more to do with Christians enjoying media that has "magic" in it. Where should Christians draw the line?


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## Skyler (Jun 12, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> My question is more to do with Christians enjoying media that has "magic" in it. Where should Christians draw the line?



Is it different from Christians enjoying media that has evolution in it?


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## puritanpilgrim (Jun 12, 2011)

> My question is more to do with Christians enjoying media that has "magic" in it. Where should Christians draw the line?




I'm havn't ever experienced real magic. But, I wonder if it involves shooting lightning and fire out of your hands at monsters? Are any of you familar with real magic to know how similar it is to what occurs in video games?


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## Rufus (Jun 12, 2011)

puritanpilgrim said:


> > My question is more to do with Christians enjoying media that has "magic" in it. Where should Christians draw the line?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Well, as far as I'm concerned real magic doesn't exist. On a side note: I'll conform to whatever the Bible says.


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## T.A.G. (Jun 12, 2011)

the bible seems to indicate that it does exist...
but like I said I dont know about the game, is it the type of magic that balls of fire come out to kill monsters or the magic like talking and raising the dead and magic spells etc


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## fishingpipe (Jun 12, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> but like I said I dont know about the game, is it the type of magic that balls of fire come out to kill monsters or the magic like talking and raising the dead and magic spells etc



Both.

I used to play with real life friends. I would normally put the wife and kids to bed and play for an hour or two, 2-3 nights a week, then go to bed myself. I would often play 1-2 hours on Saturdays, too, if my friends were on. I was in it for the social aspect of enjoying it with my friends. We would often bring our computers to each others homes and play together. They were moderate players time-wise like me. It was a fun game. As my kids got older (they are now 12, 10, and 5) I tended to want to do more with them, so my time kept ebbing away from WoW. So I eventually cancelled the account back in early 2008, as did most of my friends. I was on a total of about 18-months. I don't believe I once considered join the occult or studying witchcraft while I played. I did readily see many who were highly addicted to the game, though. One guy in our "guild" was on 8-10 hours a day, easily.

I now tend to feel the same about most any online games in terms of their value. Though I still play a couple of simple PC games (non-RPG) here and there, for the most part I feel there are much better and worthwhile ways to spend my time. Games are just one of many entertainment choices I have, but none of them hold a candle to the wife and kids.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 13, 2011)

Skyler said:


> lynnie said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see how we can forbid it, a game is game and so is chess or scrabble. But the potential for addiction is enormous.
> ...


 
This is no good. There are people who are at their early fifties and still cannot handle such things. Rather than imposing an age limit, we should catechize/educate our children in the Word of God and then, as a test of maturity, seek a credible confession of their own faith and purpose in life.


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## gordo (Jun 13, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> the bible seems to indicate that it does exist...
> but like I said I dont know about the game, is it the type of magic that balls of fire come out to kill monsters or the magic like talking and raising the dead and magic spells etc


 
Both. If you play a Mage, you pretty much just control the elements (fireballs, icebolts, creating blizzards, etc). If you play a Warlock, you can summon demons to fight along side you. A Death Knight can raise the dead to fight for him. There is also Shamans and Druids that use earthy magic (new age stuff). The Paladin is a holy warrior. He uses magic that comes from The Light (WoW's spin on Christianity), same with the priest (although you can be a shadow priest or holy priest).

Then there is classes that don't use any magic like Rogues, Warriors, Hunters...


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## CharlieJ (Jun 13, 2011)

Concerning Christian liberty, we ought to heed Johann von Staupitz's advice:

“Great certitude of salvation awaits him who ponders the good in others, who often contemplates his own evil deeds, and who makes it a habit to condemn himself and justify others.”

That is, when it comes to others, I don't charge any sin to them except what I can see clearly violates the commands of Scripture or simple applications of good and necessary consequence. However, in considering myself, I take much more into account. Even if I found reasons in my life not to play WoW, I wouldn't make that assumption for anyone else.


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## JennyG (Jun 13, 2011)

If it's the same game I'm thinking of, it causes a lot of harmless fun in this house when all the kids are home together. The boys will go any lengths to wheedle, coerce, argue, bargain or trick their sister into playing it with them, but she's equally determined that she would rather eat spider soup. 
Once to keep the peace I agreed to play along if she would. She and I spent that match visiting each other's forest hide-outs for virtual tea-parties but, would you believe, instead of being happy the boys seemed to think we were missing the point


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## Skyler (Jun 13, 2011)

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> This is no good. There are people who are at their early fifties and still cannot handle such things.



Balderdash. It's not perfect, but that doesn't mean it's no good.


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## Nebrexan (Jun 13, 2011)

A couple of Scriptures I've found helpful:

[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 6:12[/BIBLE]
[BIBLE]1 Corinthians 10:23[/BIBLE]


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## Reformation Monk (Jun 13, 2011)

I have a level 85 "toon" and used to play off and on. I've completely given it up though and here are some why's and why nots. 

1. I've always enjoyed the "Role Playing" genre. I started playing pencil and paper Dungeons and Dragons in the early 80's. In my personal opinion it is like any other type of entertainment/escapism. i.e., Television, Cinema, Theater, Fishing, Sports, Hunting, Drugs, Alcohol, etc... etc...

2. So I believe that as long as it's played in moderation and is for relaxation, then it isn't a big deal. ---- not that I'm saying that drugs and alcohol are ok in moderation... all I meant in the above statement is that they also are used for escapism. 

3. But....... that's just the thing. It isn't "designed" to be played in moderation. In order to get anywhere with your "toon/character" you have to invest a lot of time. If you desire to get to the "end-game" where all the "cool stuff" is, then you're forced to set down for a few hours at a time in order to accomplish things. 

4. There is also mild nudity and of course violence. 

5. When I finally took my personal spiritual warfare seriously in my life, I forced myself to put it away for good. It was pretty hard, I'de been playing my 85 or my "main" for over 3 years. I'm not even going to say how many "real life" hours I invested in that character.... I'm too ashamed to honestly. To be fair about it though, sometimes I wish there were "real life" hour counters attached to all "leisurely" activities. It would be interesting to see how many hours a day people spend on other things... like hmmm..... being on the computer  or on the T.V. and so on...


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## gordo (Jun 13, 2011)

World of Warcraft is the type of game where sometimes you will play, even if you don't feel like playing because you want to 'earn' that next big item. I enjoy video games, but with most games I play (strategy games, etc) when you are done playing you just hit ESCAPE, SAVE, QUIT and that's it. With Warcraft, you will be done playing, but then decide to keep playing because you want to grind another 1000 honor for a new pair of boots. It's the only game that will make you want to play for reasons other then fun. 

That said I did enjoy my time with it, but I don't have a addictive personality. I do have a friend that still plays it who spends every night online playing it almost.


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## VictorBravo (Jun 13, 2011)

Reformation Monk said:


> It would be interesting to see how many hours a day people spend on other things... like hmmm..... being on the computer or on the T.V. and so on...



There is something for computers, which I use for my work. Time management software - ManicTime

It keeps track of your computer usage by recording time spent on an active window. You can even export to Excel for your records.

Beware, though--it records _everything_ unless you tell it to quit. It's sort of a computer preview of Matthew 12:36 except it records activities and not words.


> But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 13, 2011)

If the prohibition is based oin its "magical" content then we should ban Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia series. Personally, I think video games are a waste of time and I am terrible at them any way so I don't spend much, if any, time playing.


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## Parker234 (Jun 15, 2011)

I look at video games the same as I look at all forms of entertainment. Some people enjoy sports - I frankly find sports boring and pointless. Some people like shuffleboard or rook or chess. Those seem lame to me. Personally, I grew up on Mario and Zelda and have always been awful at swinging a bat, and it's never seemed imperative that I abandon any and all hobbies now that I am in Christ. Rather, I grade myself on the curve, and try to spend less time at video games than other people do in pursuit of their own hobbies. Considering that your average football game lasts three hours (plus an hour in there of brain-rotting commercials) I can safely say that my 3 hours a week of video games feels more like a hobby than a lifestyle. Of course, I know there are people whose lives completely revolve around gaming, and I can't speak to that way of doing things.

On the magic question: When I was a kid I tried and tried to shoot fireballs out of my fingertips at my sisters and failed 100% of the time. I had to settle for make-believe. As far as I've ever known, this type of "video game magic" has no basis in reality, and so my conscience has never been stirred whenever I play Ryu in Street Fighter and shoot a fireball at my enemy.


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## T.A.G. (Jun 16, 2011)

Unashamed 116 said:


> If the prohibition is based oin its "magical" content then we should ban Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia series. Personally, I think video games are a waste of time and I am terrible at them any way so I don't spend much, if any, time playing.


 
there is a difference in harry potter vs. lord of the rings type magic


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 16, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> Unashamed 116 said:
> 
> 
> > If the prohibition is based oin its "magical" content then we should ban Lord of the Rings and the Chronicles of Narnia series. Personally, I think video games are a waste of time and I am terrible at them any way so I don't spend much, if any, time playing.
> ...



I don't see how? If it -magic- is bad (and I am not saying that any of these are inherently bad) then all of it is bad.


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## Skyler (Jun 16, 2011)

Joseph,

There is a difference between "magic" as in "a power that isn't understood" and "a power that is granted by spirits."

The former could easily describe not only magic but also much of technology today. (When I don't feel like explaining a complicated piece of equipment, I just say it's "magic".) The latter I would categorize as "witchcraft." It's really what the Bible is talking about when it condemns "magic."

Technically, Lord of the Rings magic doesn't involve power granted by spirits, at least insofar as I am aware. I guess Harry Potter magic does, but I haven't read/watched enough Harry Potter to know. =)


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## Parker234 (Jun 17, 2011)

The Harry Potter magic does not come from spirits. It's a very undefined world where some people just HAVE abilities. Kind of like X-Men. Again, though, the books and movies don't use real spells, they just use Latin words. The books just see the universe as being one in which some people can do these things and some can't. Magic is just a property of the physical universe for Potter, so in that sense it seems the same to me as Lord of the Rings.


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