# A Strange Book Selection



## J.L. Allen (May 9, 2019)

I’m taking a condensed systematic theology class this summer and need to pick up my books soon. I’m just a little confused about the selection. I could insight on which ones would be beneficial or not.

I’m supposed to pick three books (one is required and the others are selected from four others). 

Practicing Christian Doctrine by Beth Jones is required. 

I have to choose two others from these four:

Exclusion and Embrace by Miroslav Volf

Shalom and the Community of Creation by Randy Woodly

Bound to Sin by Alistair McFadyen

Redeeming Mulatto by Brian Bantum

Reactions: Sad 5


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## RamistThomist (May 9, 2019)

Yikes. _Bound to Sin_ is probably $59 too much. I can only speak to Volf's book. He is what I call an NPR theologian. He thinks we worship Allah. Unfortunately, you have to buy these books. I am sorry to hear that.

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## Hamalas (May 9, 2019)

Where are you studying that these are your textbooks?

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## TylerRay (May 9, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> I’m taking a condensed systematic theology class this summer and need to pick up my books soon. I’m just a little confused about the selection. I could insight on which ones would be beneficial or not.
> 
> I’m supposed to pick three books (one is required and the others are selected from four others).
> 
> ...


Looks like rough stuff. Are they trying to train up apostates at Moody? I would have expected something at least broadly orthodox and which is an actual treatment of systematic theology.

Reactions: Like 1 | Amen 1


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## J.L. Allen (May 9, 2019)

Hamalas said:


> Where are you studying that these are your textbooks?


That would be the Moody Bible Institute of Chicago. 


TylerRay said:


> Looks like rough stuff. Are they trying to train up apostates at Moody? I would have expected something at least broadly orthodox and which is an actual treatment of systematic theology.


I kind of wonder sometimes. I’ll say this: there are really solid guys there; in fact, probably most. Then there are a handful of professors who ought not be promoting what they’re promoting. I’d also say there are a couple who want to let their students put things together on their own. This latter bunch are solid, but they give too much exposure to dangerous concepts without enough guidance for young and impressionable students. Sometimes you have to say something like, “So this book we’re going to read was written by a heretic. Take it with a grain of salt.”


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## py3ak (May 9, 2019)

I think the standard operating procedure when you're assigned a choice of unprofitable books is to go for:

Cheapest/shortest (depending on whether time or money is tighter at the moment), and then as a tie-breaker go with more widely known vs. more obscure. Since the profit of unprofitable books is being familiar with stuff that's out there, the "popular" ones get you a better return on investment. In this case, if length/price are not particular considerations, Miroslav Volf would edge out the others.

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## RamistThomist (May 9, 2019)

What Ruben said. Go for the cheapest. Even better, hold off buying until the prof actually assigns it.

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## J.L. Allen (May 9, 2019)

py3ak said:


> I think the standard operating procedure when you're assigned a choice of unprofitable books is to go for:
> 
> Cheapest/shortest (depending on whether time or money is tighter at the moment), and then as a tie-breaker go with more widely known vs. more obscure. Since the profit of unprofitable books is being familiar with stuff that's out there, the "popular" ones get you a better return on investment. In this case, if length/price are not particular considerations, Miroslav Volf would edge out the others.


This is good advice. 


BayouHuguenot said:


> What Ruben said. Go for the cheapest. Even better, hold off buying until the prof actually assigns it.


 We already got an email from the professor saying he expected us to have the textbooks by the first day of class. :/


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## Pilgrim (May 9, 2019)

Put the ISBNs here to search for used copies often at 1/2 price or less: https://www.bookfinder.com

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## J.L. Allen (May 9, 2019)

Looks like I've been able to narrow down the options on books based on their availability to rent them. I found them on Chegg for pretty cheap. It also is nice because I don't have to keep them when I'm finished. 

Please feel free to give more insight on these books. It'll be nice to be well equipped going into it. 

I'm renting the required Beth Jones book (see first post), Exclusion and Embrace by Volf, and Shalom and the Community of Creation by Woodley


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## Pilgrim (May 9, 2019)

The only "insight" I have is that, Moody still technically being a dispensational school and all (unless that's changed too) they'd be better off returning to the days of requiring Ryrie and Walvoord instead. Perhaps some profs still do that (or something similar) if a couple that I'm thinking of haven't hit the road amidst the recent turmoil there.

If you don't have much choice but to continue your studies there for one reason or another, perhaps you can use this experience to develop a polemic against false teaching in these books and classes.

Perhaps your elders can lend some advice and direction as well.

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## RamistThomist (May 9, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> Please feel free to give more insight on these books. It'll be nice to be well equipped going into it.



If you need to write an essay on the books, just click refresh on this page. It's basically Wokist claptrap. On the other hand, Gospel Coalition might enjoy it.
http://www.elsewhere.org/pomo/


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## J.L. Allen (May 10, 2019)

Pilgrim said:


> The only "insight" I have is that, Moody still technically being a dispensational school and all (unless that's changed too) they'd be better off returning to the days of requiring Ryrie and Walvoord instead. Perhaps some profs still do that (or something similar) if a couple that I'm thinking of haven't hit the road amidst the recent turmoil there.
> 
> If you don't have much choice but to continue your studies there for one reason or another, perhaps you can use this experience to develop a polemic against false teaching in these books and classes.
> 
> Perhaps your elders can lend some advice and direction as well.


What I’ve noticed with Dispensationalism is that they distance themselves from their predecessors and try to not appeal to them. It’s the only Christian tradition I’ve seen do this. I’ve been there for over a year and haven’t heard anything about Ryrie, Walvoord, Pentecost, Chafer, Scofield, or Darby. Not a thing!

I hope I’m developing a good stance against certain things taught at MBI. Woke theology (whatever else you want to call it in the word game) being the main thing I’ve come out against. I’ve learned a lot about Dispensationalism just not the people who created and morphed it. Obviously, I’m against it and have been able to have fruitful conversations with folks.

I’ll be sending my booklist to my elders today so they can give me some guidance.


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## ZackF (May 10, 2019)

> He is what I call an NPR theologian. .


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## Timotheos (May 10, 2019)

Transfer to Reformation Bible College.

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## Romans922 (May 10, 2019)

Pick the cheapest, shortest, and move on with your life ignoring these books after you have to read them.

Reactions: Amen 1


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## Bill The Baptist (May 10, 2019)

It can be profitable to read the work of heretics provided you do so with discernment. I was required to read some works by Greg Boyd in seminary, and while I disagree with his stance just as much as before, now that I have read him, I understand him much better and thus am able to refute him better.

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## RamistThomist (May 10, 2019)

Miroslav Volf's book is widely read among progressive Christians. Just end your paper with "I hate whitey" and you will get points. (Though at this time, Volf was militantly anti-Serb, which makes sense given his Croatian backgruond).

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## J.L. Allen (May 10, 2019)

Timotheos said:


> Transfer to Reformation Bible College.


Shoulda, woulda, coulda! 

After this summer (two condensed classes, one of which we are discussing), I only have 16 credits this fall before I graduate.


Romans922 said:


> Pick the cheapest, shortest, and move on with your life ignoring these books after you have to read them.


Amen! As I mentioned above, I picked out the ones based on their availability to rent. This was cheaper than buying them, and my conscience feels better knowing I get to send them back to the fires whence they came once I've finished them. 


Bill The Baptist said:


> It can be profitable to read the work of heretics provided you do so with discernment. I was required to read some works by Greg Boyd in seminary, and while I disagree with his stance just as much as before, now that I have read him, I understand him much better and thus am able to refute him better.



This is the fruitfulness I'm hoping to come away with. Let's pray to that end!

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## Pilgrim (May 10, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> What I’ve noticed with Dispensationalism is that they distance themselves from their predecessors and try to not appeal to them. It’s the only Christian tradition I’ve seen do this. I’ve been there for over a year and haven’t heard anything about Ryrie, Walvoord, Pentecost, Chafer, Scofield, or Darby. Not a thing!
> 
> I hope I’m developing a good stance against certain things taught at MBI. Woke theology (whatever else you want to call it in the word game) being the main thing I’ve come out against. I’ve learned a lot about Dispensationalism just not the people who created and morphed it. Obviously, I’m against it and have been able to have fruitful conversations with folks.
> 
> I’ll be sending my booklist to my elders today so they can give me some guidance.



Plenty of Dispensationalists still refer to those guys, (at least the 2nd generation DTS ones) or else they wouldn't still be in print. But a school coming loose from its doctrinal moorings (such as dispensationalism, pentecostalism, Reformed, etc.) can be a sign that they are also loosing a grip on basic orthodoxy.

Very simply, (and sadly) as shown by these selections and information that can be gleaned elsewhere, MBI is on the downgrade doctrinally with profs who deny inerrancy but who haven't been fired, but with orthodox ones being shown the door under various pretexts.

It's rather cold comfort, but at least at MBI, those looking for somewhere to point the finger for the reason why SJWism is being embraced to varying degrees can just say it's on the downgrade generally with people on the faculty who have publicly questioned things like the Chicago Statement on Inerrancy. Not so (to my knowledge) with SBTS, SEBTS, ERLC, RTS, 9 Marks, TGC, etc. with some who have been considered stalwarts for decades having opened the door to it themselves and having so far not said anything publicly about even some of the most outrageous statements of their proteges.


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## J.L. Allen (May 17, 2019)

I could use prayer. I’m pretty well seething about these books. I’v started reading the ones I mentioned getting and am appalled. I’m deeply saddened that this garbage even exists. I guarantee that young minds will be warped by this content right before my eyes. Pray for the students who are weak in the faith.

Reactions: Praying 2


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## ZackF (May 17, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> I could use prayer. I’m pretty well seething about these books. I’v started reading the ones I mentioned getting and am appalled. I’m deeply saddened that this garbage even exists. I guarantee that young minds will be warped by this content right before my eyes. Pray for the students who are weak in the faith.


Being able to read folks you disagree with is a skill regardless of the intentions of the author or assigner.


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## J.L. Allen (May 17, 2019)

ZackF said:


> Being able to read folks you disagree with is a skill regardless of the intentions of the author or assignor.


I agree except when no guidance or disclaimer is given. I’m older than the other students and can discern. The young folk in my class tend to be smitten with dead end activism and the like. Critical thinking is deeply important, but the sway of an authoritative figure like the professor condoning or being soft about such things is enough to deceive young minds. That is deplorable.

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## Jeri Tanner (May 17, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> I agree except when no guidance or disclaimer is given. I’m older than the other students and can discern. The young folk in my class tend to be smitten with dead end activism and the like. Critical thinking is deeply important, but the sway of an authoritative figure like the professor condoning or being soft about such things is enough to deceive young minds. That is deplorable.


I so understand your dismay. The Lord will use it to help you grasp the depths of this terrible false doctrine being perpetrated on his people.

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## RamistThomist (May 17, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> I could use prayer. I’m pretty well seething about these books. I’v started reading the ones I mentioned getting and am appalled. I’m deeply saddened that this garbage even exists. I guarantee that young minds will be warped by this content right before my eyes. Pray for the students who are weak in the faith.



At this point in his career Volf was not a radical SJW, and some of his stuff on the Trinity is quite informative. His account of Serbian atrocities is one-sided, but that's beside the point.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## R. Andrew Compton (May 17, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> I agree except when no guidance or disclaimer is given. I’m older than the other students and can discern. The young folk in my class tend to be smitten with dead end activism and the like. Critical thinking is deeply important, but the sway of an authoritative figure like the professor condoning or being soft about such things is enough to deceive young minds. That is deplorable.



I spoke with a student recently who had a sibling in a similar situation at a different college, although this sibling was one of the 'young folk.' Thankfully she had a brother who was a seminarian who could give some guidance, and yet her ability to use his guidance to speak-up in class in a convincing manner was a whole other thing. It saddens me that even in Christian colleges, places where a wonderful opportunity exists for a solid biblical and worldview formation, formation is happening in vastly different places and toward vastly inferior ends ....

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## J.L. Allen (May 18, 2019)

R. Andrew Compton said:


> I spoke with a student recently who had a sibling in a similar situation at a different college, although this sibling was one of the 'young folk.' Thankfully she had a brother who was a seminarian who could give some guidance, and yet her ability to use his guidance to speak-up in class in a convincing manner was a whole other thing. It saddens me that even in Christian colleges, places where a wonderful opportunity exists for a solid biblical and worldview formation, formation is happening in vastly different places and toward vastly inferior ends ....


The new and “evolved” face of the modernist/fundamentalist controversy...


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