# Torah contradicts our first 5 books of OT?



## kappazei (Oct 16, 2012)

Hi everyone; An agnostic on an atheist site keeps insisting that the first 5 books of our OT is nothing like the Torah of the Jewish religion. Before I go out on a limb and ask her to show me a passage from the Torah that's not in our OT, can anyone assure me that I can call her bluff? She borrows heavily from New Age thought, even though she insists she's not one of them.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 16, 2012)

I have a JPS copy of the Tanakh, and except for a few verse markings, it is essentially the same as our OT.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Oct 16, 2012)

I agree with Ben. The OT in Hebrew used in the Reformation Bibles – and most Bibles today – was the Jewish community's standard text (there may be very slight variations in different editions). Now the "Oral Torah" – or Oral Law, as some have it – is a rabbinic / Talmudic tradition which claims it is from Moses, given to him by God on the mount as an interpretive supplement to the written Torah. This can, however, be disproved by many Scriptures. To give but a few: Exodus 24:4; Joshua 8:34, 35; Deuteronomy 31:9-13; 1 Kings 2:3; 17:37; 2 Chronicles 34:14, 15, 21-33; Nehemiah 8:1-9; 9:13, 14. The Law of Moses is all written.

There are many Jews which say that one is not allowed to read the Torah (the written words of Moses) except it be interpreted by those who are expert in the Oral Law – the Talmud. Perhaps this is what the agnostic is referring to. This oral torah is really the heart of Judaism. It is similar to Roman Catholic tradition, in that this man-made tradition trumps God's word. Otherwise there is no legitimate rival in Judaism to the law of Moses, _written_.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 16, 2012)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> There are many Jews which say that one is not allowed to read the Torah (the written words of Moses) except it be interpreted by those who are expert in the Oral Law – the Talmud. Perhaps this is what the agnostic is referring to. This oral torah is really the heart of Judaism. It is similar to Roman Catholic tradition, in that this man-made tradition trumps God's word.



This is PRECISELY what has been explained to me by not one, but TWO Orthodox rabbis.


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## jwithnell (Oct 17, 2012)

I wonder if she is referring to the overall order and structure of the Hebrew OT as it is divided into the Torah (law), Nevi'm (prophets) and Ketuvim (writings). These divisions are not quite what you would expect and several of the books are presented as one book (Ezra-Nehemiah, Chronicles isn't divided, etc.) If you don't know the OT, the Hebrew text (even when translated into the English) can appear quite different.


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