# Were you born Reformed or converted?



## Poimen (May 14, 2005)

After reading so many of your posts I get the feeling that those of who were born into Presbyterian/Reformed churches are few and far between. I am interested to see the results.

BTW, 'born' Reformed means: a) baptized as an infant b) raised in a church where you were taught either the WCF/WLC/WSC or the 3FU. 

I'll start off: I was born in a Christian home and baptized as an infant in the Christian Reformed Church, and we then later left for the Orthodox Christian Reformed Church where I received my catechism training (3FU) and solid preaching.


----------



## Average Joey (May 14, 2005)

After being born-again I immediately started going to a Reformed church and was "open" to Calvinism.After a year I tried getting away from Calvinism because I realized after talking to a friend that I was only a Calvinist because it is the first church I started attending.After a few difficult questions concerning the soveriegnty of God,I had to come back.Arminianism just left many holes and questions that they could not answer.For example:

"The just shall live by faith.Not of works lest any man should boast,but you can choose to have faith because you have free will."

In other words,the Arminian says not of works to be saved however the contradiction comes in by choosing Christ.Which in itself is a work.

I came to believe again that The Holy Spirit alone gives us His Will to choose him.Not anything within ourselves.I know this is something simple to post,but I never get tired of simply stating that man is 100 percent incapable of choosing Christ.It take God`s DEVINE will to turn a heart to bow to Him.It takes God to make a man feel sorrow for his sins.If God didn`t do this,then why does the sinful man become repentant?Is it because suddenly his "Free Will" feels conviction?How?If a man is a sinner by nature,then how does he suddenly feel sorry for his nature?That`s like saying a man feels sorry because he had to move his bowels.It is in his nature to do so.Just as it is in man`s nature to sin.He cannot stop sinning as well as he cannot stop moving his bowels.I think I`ve said enough.


----------



## Puritan Sailor (May 14, 2005)

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1427#pid14857

See this thread here. If you wish to add your story feel free. The thread is still open.


----------



## Poimen (May 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=1427#pid14857
> 
> See this thread here. If you wish to add your story feel free. The thread is still open.



Great, now I look like an idiot! Plus I lost one post.  Where is the justice? Oh why oh why am I being picked on?


----------



## fredtgreco (May 14, 2005)

Daniel,

That's OK. You added a poll! You'll keep your posts. But if you had put this in "General Discussions", well then....


----------



## sastark (May 15, 2005)

I put this over on the thread that Fred linked to but....

By the grace of God, I was born into a reformed family. Praise God!


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (May 15, 2005)

Fundamentalist, Arminian, Southern Baptist for 20 years.

Reforming for 2.

Joining the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America on Wednesday!


----------



## Scott Bushey (May 15, 2005)

Circumcised as a Jew at birth and later baptised by the Roman Catholics. Raised on the Roman Catholic/Judaic fenceline. Attended parochial school as a child and disciplined by the nuns of The Immaculate Conception (ouch). Born again and rebaptised by the Arminians in 1993; two years after my conversion. Became reformed by Gods grace alone in 1998


----------



## Presbyrino (May 15, 2005)

Catholic -> Pentacostal -> Calvary Chapel -> Orthodox Presbyterian.

My interest in Reformed Theology began when reading a pamphlet titled:
CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM & THE WORD OF GOD by Chuck Smith (which is an anti-Calvinistic, pamphlet). The Lord, in his divine providence, used this pamplet to awaken me to true biblical theology (the doctrines of Grace and Covenant Theology). I have definitely experinced the Lord work in, grand, mysterious ways!


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (May 16, 2005)

Raised liberal Roman Catholic. Joined the Baha'i Faith in college. Was converted by the grace of God in college through an Arminian campus ministry. Served as a sexton for two years at an independent Bible Church. Introduced to the Reformed Faith and, glory be to God, though my spiritual journey continues (through the PCA, RPCNA and now the Presbyterian Reformed Church), I have never looked back.


----------



## govols (May 17, 2005)

How reformed can I be if I wasn't baptized as an infant? 

Seriously, I was raised a good ole boy in a SBC (which I am still a part of - Church is still in the SBC although we are Calvinistic). About 5 years ago I was in a Covenant study class, per se, and was thinking about the order of Salvation. I tried to validate that faith came first but couldn't. The Spirit then opened my eyes to the DoG. That first year, especially, was something.

[Edited on 5-17-2005 by govols]


----------



## rmwilliamsjr (May 17, 2005)

I'm curious about extending this a bit.
There appears to be two different conversion experiences, those long night of the soul which result in a complete new change of heart, and the covenant child who believed since they were too young to remember. Does anyone have an references on the difference between the experiences and how the first is often set at normative because of the intensity of the emotional experience and radicalness of the change?
tia


----------



## sastark (May 17, 2005)

Richard,

I have been asked countless times "When did you become a Christian?" When I reply that I cannot remember a time when I was NOT a Christian, I get wierd looks. I think this is the fault of an over-emphasis by modern evangelicals on "experiencing" salvation. And, without disrespect for our baptist brothers on this board, I think the Anabaptist mindset of needing to be converted as an adult or reaching some sort of "age of accountability" before you can actually be saved is the reason I get the wierd looks. The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child. 

Since modern evangelicals do not understand covenants, the only conversion option left for them is a sudden, drastic change. Therefore, that is considered normative.


----------



## rmwilliamsjr (May 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> Richard,
> 
> I have been asked countless times "When did you become a Christian?" When I reply that I cannot remember a time when I was NOT a Christian, I get wierd looks. I think this is the fault of an over-emphasis by modern evangelicals on "experiencing" salvation. And, without disrespect for our baptist brothers on this board, I think the Anabaptist mindset of needing to be converted as an adult or reaching some sort of "age of accountability" before you can actually be saved is the reason I get the wierd looks. The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child.
> ...



I'd like some help working out the details of these ideas. For they form one of the main points in a Sunday School class in a few weeks on the New Side/Old Side split.

Experientalism, emotionalism, revivalism. express a bias towards the extraordinary, the visible, the unusual. By anchoring a conversion experience in these kinds of carried away, lifted up out of the ordinary, etc the New Side brought pietism and experientialism into the Presbyterian church. 

Has anyone thought along these lines or has references to follow up on?
tia.


----------



## sastark (May 17, 2005)

I'm afraid I don't have any references for you (although I think Gary North may mention the New Side/Old Side controversy in "Crossed Fingers"). And I haven't thought much about the subject beyond what I posted earlier. 

I do want to say that although I was raised in a Reformed home, I in no way view my salvation as any better than those brethren who were converted later in life. Having a conversion "experience", though not necessary unto salvation, in no way invalidates salvation.

I do agree with you that experientalism and emotionalism are close cousins and where one is, the other will soon follow.


----------



## govols (May 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> Richard,
> 
> The modern evangelical cannot account for a covenant child.



So all Presbyterian children are / will be saved?

Not being cynical.

[Edited on 5-18-2005 by govols]


----------



## turmeric (May 18, 2005)

I think the fault lies with 19th Century revivalism, Finney, Keswick, Moody etc. In our church, we always pray when we baptize an infant, the there will never be a time he can remember when he didn't believe. To join the church a testimony of belief in the Gospel is important. I have the opposite problem on this board - I feel like a weirdo because I DID have a crisis-conversion! It does happen, particularly if one isn't converted until adulthood.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (May 18, 2005)

I believe there is a place in Presbyterian thought for "age of accountability" or something along those lines. That place is when a covenant child reaches the age of maturity such that they can examine themselves and be examined by a session for admission to the Lord's Supper. Then, in essence, the child publically confesses his own faith and enters into the vows made on his behalf at baptism.


----------



## rmwilliamsjr (May 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> I think the fault lies with 19th Century revivalism, Finney, Keswick, Moody etc. In our church, we always pray when we baptize an infant, the there will never be a time he can remember when he didn't believe. To join the church a testimony of belief in the Gospel is important. I have the opposite problem on this board - I feel like a weirdo because I DID have a crisis-conversion! It does happen, particularly if one isn't converted until adulthood.



do you know if this prayer that the infant never know a time s/he didn't believe is online? i'd like to quote it in an essay.


----------



## sastark (May 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by govols_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by sastark_
> ...



John - Oh, no! By no means am I saying that *all* covenant children will be saved. I'm only saying that when a covenant child continues in the way he was taught as a child, the modern evangelical mindset can't comprehend it. "There must be a calendar date where you prayed the sinner's prayer and received Jesus into your heart," says the modern evangelical. Sorry, I don't agree.


----------



## Augusta (May 18, 2005)

At my old church they would get a child to say the "sinners prayer" and then they would write their name and the date on a certificate and send it home with the child.


----------



## govols (May 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> John - Oh, no! By no means am I saying that *all* covenant children will be saved. I'm only saying that when a covenant child continues in the way he was taught as a child, the modern evangelical mindset can't comprehend it. "There must be a calendar date where you prayed the sinner's prayer and received Jesus into your heart," says the modern evangelical. Sorry, I don't agree.



I used to go to a church like that, concerned more on the number of people that got "saved".


----------



## Shane (May 19, 2005)

I was a Catholic for the first 30 years of my life. 
Went through some tough times and turned to the bible and started reading it. I soon discovered that what the bible said seemed to be very different to what I was taught so I started looking around and as usual, the evil one lead be to a horrible Charismatic church and a cell group where the leader thought the Dake bible was the best thing around.

Gods Grace lead me to a bible believing church and I have now been a Christian for about 2 years.


----------



## ReformedWretch (May 19, 2005)

I was converted after finding MacArthur books on Lordship Salvation. Those books and my study on that subject lead me to the Puritan Board, a PCA Church, and Church history.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (May 20, 2005)

I was born dead in Sin. Unchurched in childhood. Was convicted that I was so sinful at age 18 that I picked up a Bible and started to read it. The book of Matthew convinced me of my sin. St. John showed the the diety of Christ and His Chosing me. I just believed John 15:16. Things happening to me at that time were just a bit to out of the ordinary. It was like I was being played. So I just believed what the scriptures said. I was introduced to an 1689 LBCF Church without knowing it and I just started walking with God.

PROVIDENCE

So I wasn't born in a denomination to be converted from or into one. Thank God for His Word, the U.S. Navy, the Navigator Ministry, my Cradle Church (Reformed Baptist Church of Virginia Beach), and my Mommy.

[Edited on 5-20-2005 by puritancovenanter]


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat (Jun 10, 2005)

Like any true Presbyterian, I was a Baptist. Of the fluffy, Purpose-Driven kind too.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 12, 2006)

Anyone else?


----------



## Ivan (Sep 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Augusta_
> At my old church they would get a child to say the "sinners prayer" and then they would write their name and the date on a certificate and send it home with the child.



Now that is sad.


----------



## Ivan (Sep 12, 2006)

I trusted Christ as my Lord and Savior as a teenager. I had attended Sunday School for years. Rarely ever attended the worship service. In fact, I don't remember ever attending a worship service until after I became a Christian. 

Becoming a Christian was not an emotional or crisis experience for me. I did feel the weight of sin on me and was convicted of my sin. I knew I was separated from God and I knew the consequences of that. And I knew that my only hope was in Christ.


----------



## rjlynam (Sep 12, 2006)

Baptised in the United Methodist Church
Got invited to VBS at Faith OPC, Pole Tavern, NJ by a school friend. Parents had stopped going to church because of the church. Told the parents about the church, and we went as a family the Sunday after VBS and they've never left.

I'll never forget my mom telling me that after she started going to Faith OPC, she found out she was a sinner, of all things. Sad statement about the former church.

Grew up in the OPC until I rebelled and went to the PCA 

Now back in the OPC at a truly wonderful church in Raleigh.

Can't remember not being a Christian, although I know that God, infinite in mercy and longsuffering, has "uprooted" me from the domain of darkness and "transplanted" me into the kingdom of the Son of His love.

Reformed, yes, but always reforming.


----------



## govols (Sep 13, 2006)

How could anyone be reformed at birth??? Would that mean that there are plenty of reformed unbelievers out there that were born reformed but were not elect???

Does this have anything to do with paedo baptism? Do families consider their children to be reformed? I am ignorant from that standpoint so I must ask.

I was born unregenerate, an enemy of God. It was not until God cleansed my heart that I believed. It was not until 5 years after that until I heard of the Doctrines of Grace. After that 1 year whirlwind I have become more reformed.

Semper Reformanda !


----------



## BobVigneault (Sep 13, 2006)

To be born reformed means that you were born into a covenant family attending a church that holds to one of the reformed confessions. You were raised with a reformed catechism and didn't have to come out of the mainstream, popular, fluffy, fad-ridden, seeker-sensitive community church. Good question John!


----------



## Formerly At Enmity (Sep 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Fundamentalist, Arminian, Southern Baptist for 20 years.
> 
> Reforming for 2.
> ...




You too Huh.....


----------



## LadyFlynt (Sep 13, 2006)

I knew as a YOUNG child that God's hand was on me. I ticked my step-dad off one day when I asked him, "well, if God controls everything, then didn't He make me do it?" Yes, I was about 4 or 5yrs old and had tried to see how much tp I could stuff in the toilet...dad had to take the toilet apart that time. 

That said, I was actually raised an armenian (that is the other reason sdad got mad). IFBer all the way. I professed (truely) at age 6 and was baptised. I met hubby in highschool and liked his youth group better (they were nicer, I was just a bus kid at my church)....so I flipped to the "dark liberal" SBC!  The IFB was good grounding on some issues though. After marriage we bounced...methodist, pentacostal, mennonite....we settled into a Bible Church. A few years later we learned about covenant theology (boy I kicked and screamed)...there was a very patient PCA pastor that prayed for me and answered my questions. This board also bore with me and through my questions...thank you!


----------



## ServantOfKing (Sep 13, 2006)

Let's see... Born to a (very confused at the time) Christian mother and non-Christian father.

Baptized Roman Catholic
Dedicated in an SBC Church 
(I'm honestly not sure how that works!) 
Raised until age 10 in a PCA church
Spent the rest of my time before college in an Evangelical Free church and a 
reformed SBC church, which is where I learned the Doctrines of Grace. 
Came to college, became apart of RUF and started attending Calvary OPC.
By God's grace I am still reforming and learning from scripture. 
Looking to join a PCA church within the next few months...


----------



## Calvibaptist (Sep 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Augusta_
> At my old church they would get a child to say the "sinners prayer" and then they would write their name and the date on a certificate and send it home with the child.



D. James Kennedy does the same in his Evangelism Explosion. It's one of the things that really irks me about it.

I was raised a Methodist, moved to Baptist Bible Fundamentalist (of the old Jerry Falwell stripe), moved to a regular old Arminian Baptist church and then started an Arminian Baptist church of my own. As I began teaching the word, I kept running across that pesky predestination and election thing and messed up and became a Calvinist. Now am teaching Reformed doctrine in a Baptist church that is getting smaller by the minute.

Douglas Mixer
Pastor
Grace Baptist Church
Odenton, MD

~edited for signature

[Edited on 9-14-2006 by Scott Bushey]


----------



## Ivan (Sep 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Calvibaptist_
> D. James Kennedy does the same in his Evangelism Explosion. It's one of the things that really irks me about it.



I was taught EE in the mid-70's and I don't remember anything like that. Maybe our pastor just didn't use that part of the EE.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Calvibaptist_
> ...



See this post from a previous thread:



> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by RAS_
> ...


----------



## KenPierce (Sep 14, 2006)

Baptized into the evangelical contingent of the Reformed Church in America.
Taught the catechism all along.
Didn't realize what it meant though, till in college an Arminian acquaintance accused me of believing in predestination.
WEnt to the Bible, saw it there, and it all fell into place.


----------



## lwadkins (Sep 14, 2006)

Baptised in a Methodist church, after being long absent from church returning to a Methodist church in my 30's. Moved to Colorado and switched from Methodist church (because of the liberalism) to an American Baptist church (Arminian) served there as a Deacon. After learning more about reformed distinctives attended and served as an Elder in a PC(USA) church until I discoverd that they didnt even believe their own confessions. Moved on to a PCA church. Throughout it all, by God's grace, elements of the truth kept coming to light in spite of the confussion that was presented to us as truth.


----------



## Augusta (Sep 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Augusta_
> ...



Needless to say that certificate expedited our leaving that church and diving into a reformed church. We had been chicken up until then because neither of us had any background in the reformed protestant churches. We didn't know if we could just show up or what. We were so ignorant that we put it off for too long.


----------



## Jerusalem Blade (Sep 15, 2006)

At age 26, in 1968, I was converted from New Age belief (Theosophy in those days) to the Lord Jesus by the witness of a woman from Estonia. At her direction I attended and was baptized in a Pentecostal church (Rock Church in Manhattan), and eventually (elsewhere) came under the thrall of Charles Finney´s Pelagianism (it is by my will that I continue to be saved, and grow in grace) and Wesley´s perfectionism "“ a deadly combination. This lasted around 20 years, with an accompanying belief (so I´d been taught) that I had to undergo a "œcomplete fast" (20, 30 days or so, depending on initial body weight -- never could do it) so as to receive the Second Blessing or Baptism in the Holy Spirit so as to attain "œcomplete sanctification" or genuine holiness. This resulted in a Christian life that was, as I have put it, 95% nightmare and 5% blessing, not to mention the ignominy and grief I caused the Lord in my desperate backslidings.

Still, I had truly been saved by Him, and He showed me His grace in a lethal situation such that I knew it was all of grace and none of my self-effort, where His love and faithfulness were manifest despite my terrible failures. Shortly after this experience of grace I was brought into an RCA church which showed me mercy and acceptance, and later a Reformed Baptist Church which introduced me formally to the 5 points, and also befriended me. I later went back to the RCA, and the 3FU "“ which I loved "“ until the pastor left and they began to apostatize, and then didn´t have a good church until I moved to NYC and attended and joined Redeemer PCA in Manhattan, where I became a member.

The doctrines (and the Spirit) of grace were life in the midst of death; I had been caged in error and sin, tormented by devils, and then the Lord let me loose, to joy in His presence. Now I am _passionately_ Reformed, to the glory of His grace.

Steve


----------



## jaybird0827 (Sep 15, 2006)

*\"Were you born Reformed or converted\"?*

Can the answer be "yes"?


----------



## C. Matthew McMahon (Sep 15, 2006)

To set you in a context of where I "started", even after being converted, check this out:

My first sermon was about how you can recieve the second blessing of the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues, only if you act first to "get" the blessing. Why? Because God *can't act* until _you_ first act.

Don't laugh. Cry. 

At the time, I meant every word of it.

No, I was not born reformed. I was open to understanding "grace" one year after this sermon was preached. The first book I read (besides Scripture) was "The Death of Death in the Death of Christ" by Owen. I finished it saying, "What else COULD it be? He's right!" 

That was the end of one era of heresy, and the beginning of real sanctification.


----------

