# Children in the Worship Service



## bookslover (Jul 1, 2009)

I'm not sure where to put this, but "church history" seems close enough.

I was looking through a biography of Thomas Carlyle (1795-1881), the great 19th-century Scottish biographer, historian, novelist, essayist, and all-around man of letters, and found something interesting.

Carlyle, not a Christian himself, was raised by serious Scottish Seceder parents who were, themselves, thorough-going Calvinists and devout Christians. It seems that, as a boy, Carlyle was not allowed to attend worship until he was 6 or 7 years old. Apparently, it was common Seceder tradition in that time (early 19th century) and place (rural Scotland) to keep young children out of the worship service until they were not only old enough to sit still but also to be able to understand what was going on. Carlyle and his siblings (there were several) were left at home while the parents went to church.

No squirming infants or toddlers in church for Seceders!

I thought that was interesting, in light of the fact that our Reformed practice seems to be the complete opposite.

Just a little tidbit from church history...


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## Montanablue (Jul 1, 2009)

Thanks for this - how interesting.

So...does this mean that we should take everything the Scottish Calvinists did as gospel truth?


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## Sven (Jul 1, 2009)

Montanablue said:


> Thanks for this - how interesting.
> 
> So...does this mean that we should take everything the Scottish Calvinists did as gospel truth?



The Scottish are infallible. Remember Mike Myers...If it's not Scottish, it's ****!

-----Added 7/1/2009 at 09:48:46 EST-----

That really is an interesting tidbit, though. I'm not an expert in Scottish Church History, but it seems to me that that was not the common practice of the Church. I'm interested in looking into it more, though.


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## jwithnell (Jul 1, 2009)

It's an interesting thought but seems at odds with our understanding of covenant children. It might be an interesting discussion on another thread to think about the different "flavors" we have, particularly in Presbyterian circles, due to influences from different European "beds" of Calvinism.


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## Houchens (Jul 1, 2009)

Interesting!


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## LawrenceU (Jul 2, 2009)

I find that sad and disgusting.


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## Don Kistler (Jul 2, 2009)

If faith comes by hearing the Word of God, why wouldn't we want our children in church? There's no age limit put on that by Scripture. And if understanding is the issue, then most of the adults don't need to be there either. 

It is true for the Puritans as well that infants were normally not brought into the worship service until they were about 2 years of age, but after that they were present. But the parents worked with them at home in their family worship so that they might soon be assimilated into corporate worship.


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## brianeschen (Jul 2, 2009)

While going through the Gospel according to Matthew, I came across this quote from Matthew Henry on Matthew 21:15


Matthew Henry said:


> Observe, (1.) The children were in the temple, perhaps playing there; no wonder, when the rulers make it a market-place, that the children make it a place of pastime; but we are willing to hope that many of them were worshipping there. Note, It is good to bring children betimes to the house of prayer, for of such is the kingdom of heaven. Let children be taught to keep up the form of godliness, it will help to lead them to the power of it. Christ has a tenderness for the lambs of his flock.
> (2.) They were there crying Hosanna to the Son of David. This they learned from those that were grown up. Little children say and do as they hear others say, and see others do; so easily do they imitate; and therefore great care must be taken to set them good examples, and no bad ones. Maxima debetur puero reverentia - Our intercourse with the young should be conducted with the most scrupulous care. Children will learn of those that are with them, either to curse and swear, or to pray and praise. The Jews did betimes teach their children to carry branches at the feast of tabernacles, and to cry Hosanna; but God taught them here to apply it to Christ. Note, Hosanna to the Son of David well becomes the mouths of little children, who should learn young the language of Canaan.
> (3.) Our Lord Jesus not only allowed it, but was very well pleased with it, and quoted a scripture which was fulfilled in it (Psa_8:2), or, at least, may be accommodated to it; Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings thou hast perfected praise; which, some think, refers to the children's joining in the acclamations of the people, and the women's songs with which David was honoured when he returned from the slaughter of the Philistine, and therefore is very fitly applied here to the hosannas with which the Son of David was saluted, now that he was entering upon his conflict with Satan, that Goliath. Note, [1.] Christ is so far from being ashamed of the services of little children, that he takes particular notice of them (and children love to be taken notice of), and is well pleased with them. If God may be honoured by babes and sucklings, who are made to hope at the best, much more by children who are grown up to maturity and some capacity. [2.] Praise is perfected out of the mouth of such; it has a peculiar tendency to the honour and glory of God for little children to join in his praises; the praise would be accounted defective and imperfect, if they had not their share in it; which is an encouragement for children to be good betimes, and to parents to teach them to be so; the labour neither of the one nor of the other shall be in vain. In the psalm it is, Thou hast ordained strength. Note, God perfecteth praise, by ordaining strength out of the mouths of babes and sucklings. When great things are brought about by weak and unlikely instruments, God is thereby much honoured, for his strength is perfected in weakness, and the infirmities of the babes and sucklings serve for a foil to the divine power. That which follows in the psalm, That thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger, was very applicable to the priests and scribes; but Christ did not apply it to them, but left it to them to apply it.


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## JBaldwin (Jul 2, 2009)

I have appreciated the practice many churches I've attended have of having a "cry room" with the sermon piped in over a speaker system. Others also have the sermon piped into the nursery where small wiggly children can quietly play while listening to the sermon. I don't mind having children in the worship service, but there is a point when disruptive children (and the parents getting up three or four times during worship to discipline them) is nothing more than a huge distraction.


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## JML (Jul 2, 2009)

It takes a lot of work to train a child to sit through services. My wife and I are currently finding that out first hand with our 1 year old daughter. We are practicing at home. We train her to be still and quiet during devotions as well as other times of the day so that when she does go in service it is not a new thing for her to know to be still. It is easier said than done as we usually end up in the nursery area after a while. I think it is well worth the hard work though. It is great to be able to worship as a family.


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## brianeschen (Jul 2, 2009)

John Lanier said:


> It takes a lot of work to train a child to sit through services. My wife and I are currently finding that out first hand with our 1 year old daughter. We are practicing at home. We train her to be still and quiet during devotions as well as other times of the day so that when she does go in service it is not a new thing for her to know to be still. It is easier said than done as we usually end up in the nursery area after a while. I think it is well worth the hard work though. It is great to be able to worship as a family.


The hard work certainly pays off even though it seems at times you are banging your head against the wall.


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## Christusregnat (Jul 2, 2009)

brianeschen said:


> John Lanier said:
> 
> 
> > It takes a lot of work to train a child to sit through services. My wife and I are currently finding that out first hand with our 1 year old daughter. We are practicing at home. We train her to be still and quiet during devotions as well as other times of the day so that when she does go in service it is not a new thing for her to know to be still. It is easier said than done as we usually end up in the nursery area after a while. I think it is well worth the hard work though. It is great to be able to worship as a family.
> ...



Allow me to praise the man publicly; Brian's children do an excellent job, and always have. Well done!

Cheers,


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