# Dual Language Services



## KMK (Jun 9, 2010)

It is becoming obvious that I have got to do do something for the Spanish speakers in my community. There are several families looking for a Christian church and have no where to go. My wife is fluent and could help me a great deal. We are toying with different ideas:

1. Preaching in English but providing a Spanish translation in written form.

2. Having two services with one including a Spanish speaking man who reads the translation of my sermon.

3. Preaching in English with a Spanish speaking man translating along side.

Any ideas?


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## Steve Curtis (Jun 9, 2010)

From personal experience, I believe that option (3) is cumbersome and frustrating - for the speaker as well as the audience/congregation. While it is possible to get into a rhythm with your translator, that rhythm is more difficult to attain for those listening. In a pinch (such as in a missions context) the practice is both necessary and expected. However, for a long-term commitment to providing your sermons to Spanish congregants, I would favor option (2) if such a person is available, or (1) if not.


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## westminken (Jun 9, 2010)

I would agree with #2. Does your church have a plurality of elders?


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2010)

westminken said:


> I would agree with #2. Does your church have a plurality of elders?


 
Yes.


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## rbcbob (Jun 9, 2010)

Ken, I can appreciate the challenges before you. I want to humbly express a caution in regard to possible solutions. In regard to the membership of the church I believe that it is imperative that they worship in a unified context rather than being separated. This goes for the "one another" life which the body of Christ lives out together. With these essential goals in mind I would encourage that any solution which would put off the realization of these necessities to and indefinite future be viewed as *deliberately short-term*.


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## SemperEruditio (Jun 9, 2010)

Learn Spanish...

Option 1 could easily be taken as insulting.
Option 3 does not work well. It breaks the flow. I've been in a few of these and it was horrible. I speak both languages but it was just horrible. Then there was the difference in how the cultures respond.

Option 2 is the better option if you do not learn Spanish. I would seriously consider learning Spanish. If not try as much as possible not to make the Spanish service an afternoon service.


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## Willem van Oranje (Jun 9, 2010)

KMK said:


> It is becoming obvious that I have got to do do something for the Spanish speakers in my community. There are several families looking for a Christian church and have no where to go. My wife is fluent and could help me a great deal. We are toying with different ideas:
> 
> 1. Preaching in English but providing a Spanish translation in written form.
> 
> ...


 
How about letting a Spanish speaker do a live Spanish translation, providing the Spanish audio simultaneously to your sermon via headphones to those who request/prefer it?


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## CNJ (Jun 9, 2010)

Spanish speakers can listen on headphones. That technology is available. 

I was in a church in Miami where the Creole speakers had a translator and listened in their native language to the translation. Singing in several languages was beautiful.


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> Ken, I can appreciate the challenges before you. I want to humbly express a caution in regard to possible solutions. In regard to the membership of the church I believe that it is imperative that they worship in a unified context rather than being separated. This goes for the "one another" life which the body of Christ lives out together. With these essential goals in mind I would encourage that any solution which would put off the realization of these necessities to and indefinite future be viewed as *deliberately short-term*.


 
Do you mean that the Spanish and English speakers should eventually worship together? If so, that is my goal. I am trying to figure out the best way to do that. I was thinking about two services that overlap. The sermon could occur early in the first, then the two groups could worship together in song/prayer/sacraments, and then the second sermon could occur later in the second service.


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2010)

SemperEruditio said:


> Learn Spanish...
> 
> Option 1 could easily be taken as insulting.
> Option 3 does not work well. It breaks the flow. I've been in a few of these and it was horrible. I speak both languages but it was just horrible. Then there was the difference in how the cultures respond.
> ...


 
Even if I learn Spanish, which isn't going to happen right away, it makes sharing the service problematic. I am trying to avoid two services as I am not sure there are enough Spanish speakers in this small town to warrant an entirely separate service.

Would a female translator be a violation of the RPW or Church order?


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2010)

Willem van Oranje said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > It is becoming obvious that I have got to do do something for the Spanish speakers in my community. There are several families looking for a Christian church and have no where to go. My wife is fluent and could help me a great deal. We are toying with different ideas:
> ...


 


CNJ said:


> Spanish speakers can listen on headphones. That technology is available.
> 
> I was in a church in Miami where the Creole speakers had a translator and listened in their native language to the translation. Singing in several languages was beautiful.


 
Interesting idea. I wonder if that technology is portable. We don't own our own building and must set up and tear down each week.


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## Jack K (Jun 9, 2010)

I grew up in a two-language church. So I can vouch for the fact that it _is_ possible to have one church, worshipping together, in two languages.

Dealing with the sermon was the toughest part. We generally had sermon translation happen after the preaching. Folks just had to sit through it or, at times, there were brief classes going on for those who didn't need the translation. The preacher sometimes used on-the-spot translation but it always messed with the flow of the message. Even the non-English speakers (many of whom spoke some English or were learning it) generally preferred to sit through an entire English sermon and then get translation in their own language.

Scripture was usually read in both languages. Hymn singing happened in both languages, and regulars all learned how to sing reasonably well in the other language. Singing was the easy part. Most people can actually learn to sing in a foreign language, and written translation can be provided if a hymn is not familiar in one's own language. You do have to make a deliberate effort to include both languages, though, and stick to it.

The pastor of the church I grew up in spoke English. But we always had capable lay leaders who were bilingual or spoke the other language, and were culturally non-English as well. I suspect this may be one key to a successful integration. I wonder if there are Spanish-speaking men, gifted to serve as leaders, who could partner with you?


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## Willem van Oranje (Jun 9, 2010)

Jack K said:


> I grew up in a two-language church. So I can vouch for the fact that it _is_ possible to have one church, worshipping together, in two languages.
> 
> Dealing with the sermon was the toughest part. We generally had sermon translation happen after the preaching. Folks just had to sit through it or, at times, there were brief classes going on for those who didn't need the translation. The preacher sometimes used on-the-spot translation but it always messed with the flow of the message. Even the non-English speakers (many of whom spoke some English or were learning it) generally preferred to sit through an entire English sermon and then get translation in their own language.
> 
> ...


 
Just for curiosity, what was the other language?

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Willem van Oranje said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > It is becoming obvious that I have got to do do something for the Spanish speakers in my community. There are several families looking for a Christian church and have no where to go. My wife is fluent and could help me a great deal. We are toying with different ideas:
> ...


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## rbcbob (Jun 9, 2010)

KMK said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > Ken, I can appreciate the challenges before you. I want to humbly express a caution in regard to possible solutions. In regard to the membership of the church I believe that it is imperative that they worship in a unified context rather than being separated. This goes for the "one another" life which the body of Christ lives out together. With these essential goals in mind I would encourage that any solution which would put off the realization of these necessities to and indefinite future be viewed as *deliberately short-term*.
> ...


 
Yes. If the long term goal is all of the members worshipping together and sharing New Covenant life together then one or the other group shall need to be bilingual. If this goal is unattainable or unreasonable then it would be good for the people of God to be in two separate churches (even in the same city) so that there is no linguistic wall of separation.


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## westminken (Jun 9, 2010)

The reason I ask is possibly if there is one that can interpret your sermon live. It would be difficult. There is a church in our presbytery that is Spanish/English. If you want, you can contact the pastor, Josh Geiger at Cristo Rey Church in Dallas,TX.


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## Jack K (Jun 9, 2010)

Willem van Oranje said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> > I grew up in a two-language church. So I can vouch for the fact that it _is_ possible to have one church, worshipping together, in two languages.
> ...


The church was on Navajo Indian land in New Mexico. There were English speakers, Navajo speakers and some bilingual. So in many ways like a missionary endeavor. In other ways like the situation we're discussing.


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2010)

westminken said:


> The reason I ask is possibly if there is one that can interpret your sermon live. It would be difficult. There is a church in our presbytery that is Spanish/English. If you want, you can contact the pastor, Josh Geiger at Cristo Rey Church in Dallas,TX.


 
Can you give me a website?


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## westminken (Jun 9, 2010)

I believe it is www.cristoreychurchpca.org.


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## JBaldwin (Jun 10, 2010)

A friend of ours is church-planting in a multi-cultural area. His church is offering English as a second language classes at his church as an outreach. If you did this, it would offer a means to bring your Spanish speaking members into the Enlish community. I would go with the option #2 suggested above in the meantime. 

Have you considered only offering a Spanish serivce once or twice a month? This is what churches did in years past. They expected their members to show up for English speaking services and offered one service in the native language once a month, so that members had the opportunity to worship stress free for a week while they were learning a new language. My mother attended such a church as a child, and a friend of mine (in order to accommodate her newly adopted french daughter) takes her whole family to a french worship service once a month. The rest of the time she learns by listening in English.


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## KMK (Jun 10, 2010)

JBaldwin said:


> A friend of ours is church-planting in a multi-cultural area. His church is offering English as a second language classes at his church as an outreach. If you did this, it would offer a means to bring your Spanish speaking members into the Enlish community. I would go with the option #2 suggested above in the meantime.
> 
> Have you considered only offering a Spanish serivce once or twice a month? This is what churches did in years past. They expected their members to show up for English speaking services and offered one service in the native language once a month, so that members had the opportunity to worship stress free for a week while they were learning a new language. My mother attended such a church as a child, and a friend of mine (in order to accommodate her newly adopted french daughter) takes her whole family to a french worship service once a month. The rest of the time she learns by listening in English.


 
Very interesting ideas. Thanks.

Concerning the idea of 'second language instruction' for adults, here in SoCal it's just not effective anymore. SoCal has become so bicultural (and more so daily) that there are few motivating factors for Spanish speaking adults to continue learning English beyond the basics. Billboards, road signs, and all government documents are provided in both English and Spanish. Everyone, even the children in public schools, learn enough basic interpersonal communications skills to get by, but very few achieve any kind of cognitive academic language proficiency. In fact, one of the men who has been bemoaning the fact that there is no Spanish speaking Christian churches has lived in SoCal for 30 years, but his English is still so poor that we have trouble communicating about anything beyond the most basic things.

On the flip side, most English speakers have very little motivation for learning Spanish because the Spanish speakers can already speak enough English to make basic communication possible. In fact, there is an established transition language that has emerged between the two with its own vocabulary.

I think most adult Spanish speakers could understand the main points of my sermons, but it is more about a comfort level than real understanding. Providing Spanish in worship would be like extending a hand of fellowship to a group who see themselves as 'disenfranchised'.


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## FenderPriest (Jun 10, 2010)

I believe we do something along the lines of providing a headset for Spanish speaking folks that receives a radioed version from a guy translating in another room as our pastor preaches. A little bit of a technological investment, but it tends to be the least disruptive, much like having someone in the front signing the preached word for the deaf.


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## SemperEruditio (Jun 10, 2010)

KMK said:


> Very interesting ideas. Thanks.
> 
> Concerning the idea of 'second language instruction' for adults, here in SoCal it's just not effective anymore. SoCal has become so bicultural (and more so daily) that there are few motivating factors for Spanish speaking adults to continue learning English beyond the basics. Billboards, road signs, and all government documents are provided in both English and Spanish. Everyone, even the children in public schools, learn enough basic interpersonal communications skills to get by, but very few achieve any kind of cognitive academic language proficiency. In fact, one of the men who has been bemoaning the fact that there is no Spanish speaking Christian churches has lived in SoCal for 30 years, but his English is still so poor that we have trouble communicating about anything beyond the most basic things.
> 
> ...


 
Why not just see them as a group that you are extending a hand of fellowship?


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## KMK (Jun 10, 2010)

SemperEruditio said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting ideas. Thanks.
> ...


 
I am considering doing a Bible study with them on Sun evenings focusing on learning the 'academic' language of Christianity in both English and Spanish; perhaps a parallel catechism. We could include prayer and singing in the Bible Study.


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## SemperEruditio (Jun 10, 2010)

KMK said:


> SemperEruditio said:
> 
> 
> > KMK said:
> ...


 
Sounds like a great idea. I was thinking along the same lines because my family is in Miami and I see the same issues with Spanish/English that I see in your posts about SoCal. 

The bible studies will grow because most of our Latino Christian family members are hungry for the Word. They get a very good foundation in how important the Word is but no exegesis. You throw in some Spanish words that you learned from one of them and I think you've got some great relationships about to form and who knows what else. 

I would also offer that many Latinos speak or read very little to no English because of illiteracy in general and not just because of an obstinate disposition. My mother tried for over 20 years and would cry and cry. It wasn't until a decade ago that my sister discovered our mom is dyslexic. So the pride I see now in my Latinos is not in their native language but in not admitting that they have trouble learning. I mean if languages were easy most seminaries would make them mandatory.


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## KMK (Jun 10, 2010)

SemperEruditio said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > SemperEruditio said:
> ...


 
So true. I would add that many immigrants in SoCal are illiterate in both languages.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 10, 2010)

We have a dual language service. One of our deacons is hispanic and he translates from a translator's booth and the Spanish speaking members (most of them know some English, but are more comfortable with their first tongue) wear ear buds that bring in the translation. It works well and we have been doing it for over 30 years. 

There was a time when we had an associate pastor (long before my time) and he was the "Pastor of Spanish Ministry". He would conduct services in Spanish as well as translate during AM worship. This was many years ago though. 

I say go for it! We don't have enough solid Spanish language ministries in SoCal, believe it or not.


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## Tim (Jun 11, 2010)

I honestly have never been able to figure out the answer to this problem. 

One one hand, we are all one in Christ and necessarily have fellowship in the Lord. But, on the other hand, unless there is a common language, I don't see how fellowship would allow for meaningful communication and discussion.

For example, if there was live interpretation via earphones, I might listen to the sermon in English, while my Spanish brother sits beside me listening to the interpreter. But after the service, we would be unable to discuss the sermon. The only alternative that I can see would be segregation by language, which also doesn't seem right.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 11, 2010)

Tim said:


> I honestly have never been able to figure out the answer to this problem.
> 
> One one hand, we are all one in Christ and necessarily have fellowship in the Lord. But, on the other hand, unless there is a common language, I don't see how fellowship would allow for meaningful communication and discussion.
> 
> For example, if there was live interpretation via earphones, I might listen to the sermon in English, while my Spanish brother sits beside me listening to the interpreter. But after the service, we would be unable to discuss the sermon. The only alternative that I can see would be segregation by language, which also doesn't seem right.


 
This is true. The goal (in my personal opinion) should always be towards a church plant in the other language. We just aren't there- and in 30 years have been close only once. We keep it before the throne of grace.


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## Kevin (Jun 11, 2010)

Ken,

I am dealing with situation like yours. Our problem is that the non-english speakers do not all share a common language. Now I offer ESL bibles studies on Saturday. My prayer is that we will offer an ESL Worship service. Everything in english, but with a Basic English Bible, simple songs & small group discussion after the sermon with trained ESL tutors.

Setting it all up is a big project & we are probably a year away from launch. Our plan is to offer this service just prior to our regular evening sevice, that includes a meal, so that people will stay for both.


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