# Why I Don't Watch Downton Abbey



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Feb 15, 2013)

A thought provoking piece by an ARP minister and professor's wife on why she doesn't watch Downton Abbey.

Why I Don’t Watch Downton Abbey « THE CHRISTIAN PUNDIT


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## AThornquist (Feb 15, 2013)

My web filter won't let me view the link, but I am interested to read the piece. I watch Downton Abbey and enjoy it a lot.


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## gkterry (Feb 15, 2013)

Actually, this article is written by his wife, Rebecca (RVD). They both contribute to the blog.


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## baron (Feb 15, 2013)

Well I read the article and it sounds like most TV shows. I have never heard of Downtown Abbey, so I must be traveling in the wrong christian circles. My wife said she read something about it but dosen't remember when or where.


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## AThornquist (Feb 15, 2013)

I'm a little surprised by that, John. A _lot_ of people I know watch it and enjoy it.


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## jwithnell (Feb 15, 2013)

I like it. For the most part, concepts like honor, responsibility, and duty carry the day. Rare for TV. I was displeased that a gay character is part of the story. He is presented as delinquent at every level. If his perversion becomes more of the story line, my support would end.


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## Marcus417 (Feb 15, 2013)

I don't watch Downtown Abbey (I am more of a Seinfeld kind of guy ). We as Christian need to be careful about going around calling ever show not on TBN sinful and calling out Christians who enjoy them. This is because everything that the secular media puts out is in some way sinful because its does not start out with the gospel at its premise. I feel it is OK to watch secular shows as long as you understand and can recognize sinful behaviors and not be seduced by them. Christians have to interact with culture.

At a secular university I interact with Christians everyday who had absolutely no interaction with secular culture and now college is a big culture shock. Christian can now live a life that is not influenced by secularism at all! Christian music, Christian schools daycare through PhD, Christian fiction, Christian schoolbooks, Christian fast food chains, Christian home school material, Christian toys (have you put on your toy armor of God today Jimmy?), Christian TV Shows, Christian Movies (whose actors make Keanu Reeves seem Oscar worthy), and I haven't begun to scratch the surface. Every part of life has been Christianized, and its causing us to produce idiotic, shallow, stupid Christians that cannot interact outside the Christian bubble.

People will argue for the likeability of things by using the phrase "Well you should like it because its Christian." I once had someone say this to me with regards to the band Creed. I nearly punched that person in the face because Creed is a group of four melodically challenged human-being who should not be considered "good" by anyone whether you agree with the Christian moniker or not. 

SOOOOO what was the topic again? sorry for the rant

In Christ Alone,
Marcus


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## Jack K (Feb 15, 2013)

A review by a Christian reviewer who's actually watched more than half an episode might be more helpful than the article in the link. Still, the author is right in noticing that Downton Abbey, like nearly all TV shows, is missing the gospel and therefore not a Christian show.

Nevertheless, I watch it. It's currently the only scripted show on TV that either my wife or I regularly watch. Despite the gay character—whose other character flaws are far more intriguing than his sexual sins—and the fact that everyone on the show is a sinner (sin-free dramas are neither true-to-life nor interesting), the characters on Downton Abbey by and large hold more closely to a Christian worldview and morality than does the typical TV character on the typical show today. This may be due merely to the period and setting. Still, there's something refreshing about storylines that deal with honesty, honor and sexual virtue—even when, obviously, building a story around such themes means including characters who fail to display those virtues.

The show is well-written and the characters are developed nicely. I watch, realizing those characters know nothing of the gospel, and I find myself _wanting_ to tell them about Jesus. I find myself caring about them and wishing they could know what the gospel offers. That doesn't make Downton Abbey a Christian show. But it does make it a whole lot better, in many ways, than much of the shallow drama that does carry a "Christian" label.


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## Alan D. Strange (Feb 15, 2013)

There's much to criticize about DA, as any work of art, as the professor's wife notes. 

I do find the criticism, however, off the mark at several points. One example: Bates, Lord Grantham's valet, had gone to jail for his wife's crime (theft) and endured her cruelty; nonetheless, he agreed to live with her (though she just wanted his inheritance money) as man and wife, until he found out that she was adulterous. He determined to divorce her after that (though it was clear that he wanted such earlier). We would say that such forms grounds for divorce.

The cited piece, however, does not only not mention that (perhaps the author does not know that since she didn't watch the show), but goes on to shame the character Bates and the other character that he comes to pursue, Anna, saying "How can I sit on the couch and root for Bates and Anna when he should be pursuing his wife and determining to love her (see Hosea)?" Well, he does pursue his wife, after some fashion--certainly open to criticism--but the wife is, among other things, adulterous. Perhaps the author does recognize this because she writes, "see Hosea." This could well be taken to mean that, like Hosea, he should marry and stay married to a woman of ill-repute. But no one thinks that Hosea's actions in this respect (commanded by the Lord, as are other inimitable prophetic actions) are normative. They are not. And no one is commanded to stay married to an adulterous spouse, especially an impenitent one. Surely, the author does not mean to say that one may not divorce on the grounds of adultery. The comment, at any rate, does not seem clear-headed with regard to these matters and rather surprising coming from a Reformed source.

Again, this program bears a wide variety of criticism. And the author has every right to offer criticism. But if you're going to criticize it on certain grounds, you should be more careful, particularly as you are making an argument against watching it. The article in general, in my view, would better be cast as a criticism of the show rather than implying that no one should watch it because she doesn't watch it. And if one is not implying such, why write the piece? Again, lots to criticize but I tend to think that the way to go is not simply to say don't watch it but critically engage it.

Peace,
Alan


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## reformedminister (Feb 15, 2013)

I love Downton Abbey! Don't criticize my Downton. It's the best thing on public television!


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## AndrewOfCymru (Feb 15, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> A thought provoking piece by an ARP minister and professor's wife on why she doesn't watch Downton Abbey.
> 
> Why I Don’t Watch Downton Abbey « THE CHRISTIAN PUNDIT




Thanks for posting that, Pastor. 

I had been contemplating watching this series, but will be giving some serious second thought to it now. I find that I need to hear that point of view more often than not. If only I could un-see and un-know things that I have exposed myself to over the years, whether explicit or suggested.


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## JoannaV (Feb 16, 2013)

I think for some people this piece will be helpfully convicting and for others it just won't be very relevant. For one thing, people are different. For example, one person may be subtly undermined by being presented with secular morality, whereas another person may be prompted to think on the implications of such and how it differs from a Biblical view.
Fictional drama is particularly good at conveying some things, and also has particular areas in which it can be damaging. Same as any media. People vary in what is most useful to them, and what dangers they are most susceptible to.


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## Andres (Feb 16, 2013)

Um, hello....has anyone ever heard of SPOILER ALERT!! 

On another note, my wife and I watched most of the first season. We really enjoyed it, but just didn't get around to watching anymore. We might pick it back up on Netflix. The article came across really silly to me, almost a little "holier than thou". Then again, I also know people who watch/listen to things that my conscience won't allow me to, so I guess to each their own...


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## joejohnston3 (Feb 16, 2013)

This brings up an interesting topic as I have been concerned about the increasing liberality in the christian community and tolerance of media that is either questionable or downright unacceptable. My wife and I have been objectively evaluating anything we watch as we know we live in a society that does not revere or fear God and where Satan is truly in control. I believe we as christian's not only need to set the standard but also as the epistles reiterate need to think on the things that are listed in Philippians 4:8 "Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things." An old acronym is still valid today, just as the Bible truths are...WWJD can guide us into more truth when we have questions concerning the conscience.


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## Goodcheer68 (Feb 16, 2013)

joejohnston3 said:


> WWJD can guide us into more truth when we have questions concerning the conscience.



I don't think we should make Christ some motto that we pull out of our bag of tricks along with other fashionable trite statements. Instead we should encourage people to look at what Christ has done, and in light of that live accordingly. This would better serve them. This would keep Christ in His rightful position as Lord and Savior and from being lumped in w/ the Oprah Winfreys, Gandhi's of our day. Would Jesus eat Cap'n Crunch or Twix?, or has he died that I may be saved, enabling me to do all things whether I eat or drink to His glory?


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## Eoghan (Feb 16, 2013)

reformedminister said:


> I love Downton Abbey! Don't criticize my Downton. It's the best thing on public television!



Apart from Babylon 5 re-runs!


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## baron (Feb 16, 2013)

AThornquist said:


> I'm a little surprised by that, John. A lot of people I know watch it and enjoy it.



Where does one find this show. I see by another post it's on public TV. Can you direct me to the day and time the show is on? I have looked in my TV Topics but my eyesight is not very good. I was not able to find it.


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## Zach (Feb 16, 2013)

I'm not sure what to think of _Downton Abbey_ after reading that but the post raises a few questions. I would like to watch DA, but haven't had time. What would the author of the blog post propose that Christians watch instead? Everything (especially that which is made by and for secularists) will contain very much sin and little purity and redemption. Is that grounds for Christians to avoid just about everything on TV/in the movie theatre? I know that the Bible condemns those who call evil good and good evil. But are we not able to watch a show like DA, appreciate the story because its a well told story, and simultaneously reject that which is sinful in it? 

One of my favorites is _Band of Brothers_ and there is certainly a lot of sin it it. But it is a good story (!!) and as a Christian I can watch it and see what sin does. It causes death, destruction, and misery. I can also see God's common grace in the love that the men have for one another. Not knowing _Downtown Abbey_ I can't say whether it is similar or not and maybe I am way off base. I'm not advocating watching shows that cause us to sin, and I think the author's point is that this show WILL manipulate peoples emotions and cause them to sin, but I guess I don't see why all sin needs to be offset with purity, grace, and redemption in a show. Sometimes the story is powerful enough that, I think, Christians can enjoy and benefit from it. 

If someone can understand what I am getting at and help me out that would be great!


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## jgilberAZ (Feb 16, 2013)

I find this helpful in determining what to watch, or not watch. We use it primarily for movies, however.

Christian Spotlight


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## Andres (Feb 16, 2013)

baron said:


> AThornquist said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a little surprised by that, John. A lot of people I know watch it and enjoy it.
> ...



I just checked online and apparently it comes on Sunday nights on PBS. I don't advocate anyone watching it on the Lord's Day, but it's on several streaming video providers such as Hulu and Netflix. Every episode I've ever seen, I've seen on Netflix.


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## Andres (Feb 16, 2013)

joejohnston3 said:


> An old acronym is still valid today, just as the Bible truths are...WWJD can guide us into more truth when we have questions concerning the conscience.



 I respectfully disagree with you that "WWJD" is something we should be encouraging saints to employ, but we should probably start another thread for that one.


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## JohnGill (Feb 16, 2013)

jgilberAZ said:


> I find this helpful in determining what to watch, or not watch. We use it primarily for movies, however.
> 
> Christian Spotlight



Rev. Beeke's article deals directly with TV and can be applied to any TV program. Is TV Really So Bad?


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## matt01 (Feb 16, 2013)

JohnGill said:


> Rev. Beeke's article deals directly with TV and can be applied to any TV...






> Do yourself a favor: for the Word of God's sake, the church's sake, your own soul's sake, your family's sake, your conscience's sake, dispose of your television today. Do it permanently before you become its lifelong slave.


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## Cymro (Feb 16, 2013)

I think Joe Johnstone has it right. Be ye holy as I am holy should be our goal. It is possible to interact with the 
world without imbibing their standards of entertainment or culture. Having worked on the shop floor for 40yrs in
engineering at a local steelworks, and known life in the raw, and not having a television, did not limit any ability to witness,
or to discuss the issues that were raised. The WCF counsels," God alone is Lord of the conscience," and goes on to teach, "they who
,upon pretence of Christian liberty, do practise any sin or cherish any lust, do thereby destroy the end of Christian liberty." Television
does bring the world into the home. Oh to be true to the divine principle, whatsoever things are pure, think on these things, is the calling I lamentably fall short of.


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## Zach (Feb 16, 2013)

JohnGill said:


> jgilberAZ said:
> 
> 
> > I find this helpful in determining what to watch, or not watch. We use it primarily for movies, however.
> ...



Thanks for sharing, Chris. It was a convicting read for me and I don't even watch much TV. Definitely gave me some things to think about.


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## JohnGill (Feb 16, 2013)

Zach said:


> JohnGill said:
> 
> 
> > jgilberAZ said:
> ...



It did the same for me. At least there's the old Granada TV series Sherlock Holmes with Jeremy Brett.


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## baron (Feb 16, 2013)

JohnGill said:


> Rev. Beeke's article deals directly with TV and can be applied to any TV program. Is TV Really So Bad?



Great article by Beeke. Really give's me something to ponder. Seeing how I am home just about 24 hours a day except when I have doctor appointment's, boreddom comes upon me quickly. I can only read and pray for so long than what. How many times can one read the Bible a year, with out becoming bored? I 'm at that stage and do not want to read anything. Only back ground noise I have is TV.


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## JohnGill (Feb 16, 2013)

baron said:


> JohnGill said:
> 
> 
> > Rev. Beeke's article deals directly with TV and can be applied to any TV program. Is TV Really So Bad?
> ...



You could always become a baseball/critic fan via radio. Or turn on the macarena. (ducks) 

I think that some shows are not bad uses of the TV. Greg Bahnsen's video series Basic Training for Defending the Faith, Amazing Grace: The History & Theology of Calvinism, _KJB: The Book That Changed the World_, any of the video lectures by Dr. Greg Bahnsen, Rev. Joel Beeke, Rev. R.C. Sproul, et al, and The Teaching Company videos series on various subjects, are all good uses for the TV.


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## Cymro (Feb 16, 2013)

I think Joe Johnston and his helpmeet have it right.There is a blurring of the demarcation line between the believer and the world. Be holy as I am holy should be our aspiration. It is possible to interact with the world without imbibing their standards of entertainment or culture. Having worked on the shop floor for forty years in engineering at a local steelworks, and known life in the raw, and not having a television, did not limit any ability to witness or to discuss the issues that were raised. The WCF counsels, "God alone is the Lord of the conscience," and goes on to teach, "They who upon pretence of Christian liberty, do practise any sin or cherish any lust, do thereby destroy the end of Christian liberty." My conscience moves me to think that television brings the world into the home with accompanying temptations. But let every man be true to his conscience. Oh, to be true to the Divine principle, "Whatsoever things are pure, think on these things," is the calling I lamentably fall short of.
By the way, what is the meaning of WWJD?


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## Marcus417 (Feb 16, 2013)

Cymro said:


> I think Joe Johnston and his helpmeet have it right.There is a blurring of the demarcation line between the believer and the world. Be holy as I am holy should be our aspiration. It is possible to interact with the world without imbibing their standards of entertainment or culture. Having worked on the shop floor for forty years in engineering at a local steelworks, and known life in the raw, and not having a television, did not limit any ability to witness or to discuss the issues that were raised. The WCF counsels, "God alone is the Lord of the conscience," and goes on to teach, "They who upon pretence of Christian liberty, do practise any sin or cherish any lust, do thereby destroy the end of Christian liberty." My conscience moves me to think that television brings the world into the home with accompanying temptations. But let every man be true to his conscience. Oh, to be true to the Divine principle, "Whatsoever things are pure, think on these things," is the calling I lamentably fall short of.
> By the way, what is the meaning of WWJD?



WWJD= What Would Jesus Do


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## FenderPriest (Feb 16, 2013)

We were put off by enough in the first 3 episodes to not watch it. Now, I revel in making snide and condescending remarks about friends who are big fans. Almost as much fun as I had making fun of Twilight fans...


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## jandrusk (Feb 16, 2013)

One sentence from the article that I would like to quote, "Whatever good I might get from it, I was getting other things that were far worse.". I think every Christian has the liberty to own a TV, but I think at best, TV does you no good. To me personally as Christians bind themselves to more and more to secular interests the more I think we are being ingrafted in the secular world. I think we all including myself need to do better at redeeming the time, for the days we are currently in are truely evil.


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## jwithnell (Feb 16, 2013)

We ditched TV because we didn't want to pay for all the junk. PBS video on demand, Amazon Prime, etc., allows us to be selective.


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## Moireach (Feb 16, 2013)

As a Brit I found the inaccurate reference to the UK annoying too.

1. We have not legalised same-sex marriage
2. The US have just voted in a man who strongly supports same-sex marriage and would do the EXACT same thing as the UK just now if he had the power to
3. American shows and movies aren't any better than British. Some of the most sinful content on British TVs comes from America

So yes we are further gone, but the comment in the article only exposes a prejudice that seems to me to affect her view on Downton Abbey. If this was based in Texas would she have said "it's no surprise this has come from a country that has just voted in Barack Obama"? I smell prejudice.


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## ChristianTrader (Feb 16, 2013)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Again, this program bears a wide variety of criticism. And the author has every right to offer criticism. But if you're going to criticize it on certain grounds, you should be more careful, particularly as you are making an argument against watching it. The article in general, in my view, would better be cast as a criticism of the show rather than implying that no one should watch it because she doesn't watch it. And if one is not implying such, why write the piece? Again, lots to criticize but I tend to think that the way to go is not simply to say don't watch it but critically engage it.



How does one distinguish between a criticism of the show and a criticism implying that no one should watch it?

CT


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## AndrewOfCymru (Feb 16, 2013)

JohnGill said:


> jgilberAZ said:
> 
> 
> > I find this helpful in determining what to watch, or not watch. We use it primarily for movies, however.
> ...



Thanks for that post, Chris. I've read similar pieces before and they really hit home for me.


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## Jack K (Feb 16, 2013)

Zach said:


> One of my favorites is Band of Brothers and there is certainly a lot of sin it it. But it is a good story (!!) and as a Christian I can watch it and see what sin does. It causes death, destruction, and misery. I can also see God's common grace in the love that the men have for one another. Not knowing Downtown Abbey I can't say whether it is similar or not



I think you have the question exactly right. Of course stories must depict sin. That's part of life in this world. There's nothing to fight against or overcome if there's no sin depicted—hence, no story. But does the program depict sin in a way that glorifies it, makes you enjoy it or treats it as funny? Or does the program depict sin in a way that acknowledges the damage it does and the danger it poses?

The second treatment is what I look for. I think Downton Abbey does it better than most of the junk of TV, but not nearly as consistently as it might.


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## ChristianTrader (Feb 16, 2013)

Another take on the show can be found here - Downton Abbey as a Jane Austen style Tragedy - Mere Orthodoxy | Christianity, Politics, and Culture


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## Zach (Feb 16, 2013)

Jack K said:


> Zach said:
> 
> 
> > One of my favorites is Band of Brothers and there is certainly a lot of sin it it. But it is a good story (!!) and as a Christian I can watch it and see what sin does. It causes death, destruction, and misery. I can also see God's common grace in the love that the men have for one another. Not knowing Downtown Abbey I can't say whether it is similar or not
> ...



Thanks, Jack. Really, no show done by a secular producer with a secular audience in mind will fully depict sin in the way that you described above. Some do it better but I can't think of many that do it fully. I guess everyone has the liberty to decide where the line is, but it does make me wonder what the benefits of TV are. How do you determine where you draw the line?


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## jfschultz (Feb 16, 2013)

Andres said:


> baron said:
> 
> 
> > AThornquist said:
> ...



Over the years there seems to be a drift that "The Puritan Board" is becoming "The Contemporary Evangelical Board." Years ago there was the annual Stupid (er Super) Bowl thread that hotly debated the way we observe the Fourth Commandment. Now there is almost no consideration of spending the Lord's Day in the manner set forth in Westminster.


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## Jack K (Feb 16, 2013)

Zach said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> > Zach said:
> ...



My gut, mostly, I guess. I really enjoy a well-made movie or TV show and have a low tolerance for anything shallow. So I sometimes watch stuff that's particularly well-made even if it doesn't pass the "test" I described above. I probably should be more discriminating than I am, particularly with movies, which I generally prefer over TV due to the higher quality of the work.

_Downton Abbey_ is the one show my wife and I watch these days, and we watch it together. It's nice to have a fun activity to do together that doesn't involve having to leave the house. A few years ago we started watching _House, M.D._, which we liked due to the witty writing, but in time it started to wear on us because it too often seemed to glorify sinful behavior instead of recognizing it as evil to overcome. Maybe that's an example of a line we should have drawn from the start.


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## jwithnell (Feb 16, 2013)

> I just checked online and apparently it comes on Sunday nights on PBS. I don't advocate anyone watching it on the Lord's Day, but it's on several streaming video providers such as Hulu and Netflix. Every episode I've ever seen, I've seen on Netflix.
> Over the years there seems to be a drift that "The Puritan Board" is becoming "The Contemporary Evangelical Board." Years ago there was the annual Stupid (er Super) Bowl thread that hotly debated the way we observe the Fourth Commandment. Now there is almost no consideration of spending the Lord's Day in the manner set forth in Westminster.


It's available on PBS Video On demand. We watch it when we have time later in the week. If this were back in broadcast-only days, we would not watch it.


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## Jack K (Feb 16, 2013)

jfschultz said:


> Years ago there was the annual Stupid (er Super) Bowl thread that hotly debated the way we observe the Fourth Commandment. Now there is almost no consideration of spending the Lord's Day in the manner set forth in Westminster.



Years ago people had to watch a show or record it at the time it originally aired. Now you can't even assume they're aware of the original air date.


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## Alan D. Strange (Feb 16, 2013)

Quite right, Jack. Anything that we watch, we watch on Netflix. We do not like commercials and if we watch a film or TV show we can do so on our schedule. If it is a TV show, like Downton, I generally have no idea when it comes on unless I make it a point to find out. It's not relevant to my watching of it. We don't watch any TV as such. I agree that there is much that is not worth watching. But I try not to make blanket statements about what one watches. And I try to be careful not to "lord it over" the consciences of others (Romans 14; WCF 20).

Peace,
Alan


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