# Rick Warren & Islam



## SolaSaint (Mar 2, 2012)

Rejecting truth for the sake of unity (OneNewsNow.com)

Here's one of the many links to the latest stories on Rick Warren pushing an alleged merger with Islam. It appears that Warren wants peace with Muslims and will not come out and say we worship two totally different gods. The journalist who wrote the story states Warren claims we serve the same God. But Warren hasn't made a public statement on this. Is his silence heretical? It should be easy to come out and state your doctines correctly if your in the position of "Americas pastor". I believe he's placed himself in a corner. If he says the God of scripture is the only God, then he alienates the Muslims and if he says we both worship the same God, then he's a heretic. I think he finally has ruined his run at syncretism.


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## Pergamum (Mar 2, 2012)

Many evangelicals state that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same God due to a shared monotheism but that Christians only know the true path to that God. This position may not be heretical, but it is wrong.


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## rookie (Mar 2, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> Many evangelicals state that Christians, Jews, and Muslims all worship the same God due to a shared monotheism but that Christians only know the true path to that God. This position may not be heretical, but it is wrong.



Depending on their level of theological knowledge, it can be either ignorance (didn't study long enough, made a mistake, and will see it later and retract that view) or heretical (wants unity...but knows the difference)


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## Curt (Mar 2, 2012)

Shameful!


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## puritanbooks (Mar 2, 2012)

Christians follow Jesus, the Muslims follow who..?


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## FenderPriest (Mar 2, 2012)

Just an fyi, Warren tweeted the other day: "If people tell me 'We worship the same God' I say 'Are you sure? My God is Jesus Christ & I believe God is Trinity'" (source). Similarly, "I never just accept what newspapers say about people. I've seen them get facts, quotes & reasons wrong far too many times."


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## J. Dean (Mar 2, 2012)

To add to Jacob's post, apparently the news story about Warren and Islam is inaccurate. In fairness to Rick Warren, I'd like to hear him say something directly about this as well.

However, what's equally troubling to me about Rick Warren is his citation of Henri Nouwen: Sola Sisters: Why Is Rick Warren Quoting Universalist Henri Nouwen?

While I doubt that Warren is a universalist, it's just not good form to quote people who are seriously errant in their theology and not make any qualifying statements about that person.


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## FenderPriest (Mar 2, 2012)

J. Dean said:


> While I doubt that Warren is a universalist, it's just not good form to quote people who are seriously errant in their theology and not make any qualifying statements about that person.


Why? Not all things can be said at one time. We must be careful not to import too much meaning into a man's message when he spoken otherwise elsewhere.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 2, 2012)

puritanbooks said:


> Christians follow Jesus, the Muslims follow who..?



Purtianbooks, welcome to the PB! Please fix your signature per the PB rules (click on the link in my signature below to see how).


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## Rufus (Mar 2, 2012)

puritanbooks said:


> Christians follow Jesus, the Muslims follow who..?



No one; Muslim means "one who submits", to God, to the rule of the Koran, etc. Following Christ is to Christians as submitting is to Muslims.


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## DMcFadden (Mar 2, 2012)

Remember that it it part of Warren's theological pedigree (as a D.Min. graduate from the school in Pasadena that must not be named) to believe in high levels of "dialog." Remember that the Prez of Warren's last school apologized to Mormons in Salt Lake for the sins of evangelicals against them and that he signed the letter to Muslims a couple of years back.

I don't know if you can read much into his commitment to dialog, other than he went to a progressive evangelical seminary for his D.Min. Whether this represents a strategy of engagement in order to present the Gospel of an act of capitulation and compromise would require something more than an apparently errant newspaper report.

I am no fan of some aspects of Rick Warren but do not want to knee jerk into condemning him based on ANYthing a reporter claims.


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## DMcFadden (Mar 2, 2012)

Rufus said:


> puritanbooks said:
> 
> 
> > Christians follow Jesus, the Muslims follow who..?
> ...



And herein lies the basis for some of the controversy over Wycliffe and Frontiers. They are in hot water for trying to use contextualized interpretations of Trinitarian language into more Muslim-friendly translations. This is also part of the effort by many Christian missionaries to use the name Allah and call themselves "Muslims" since they believe in "submitting" to God.

Honestly, my wife and I have provided modest financial support for a Wycliffe couple and a Frontiers couple for decades. It gives me pause to consider whether we should continue our support in light of the controversy.


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## Jack K (Mar 2, 2012)

SolaSaint said:


> The journalist who wrote the story states Warren claims we serve the same God. But Warren hasn't made a public statement on this. Is his silence heretical?



I'm not a big Warren fan. But I trust him to be more theologically adept than the typical secular news reporter. IF the secular news report misstated his position or simplified it in a misleading way (not certain, but surely posible), I don't think silence from Warren is heretical or should even be thought of as error.

Christian ministers are not be required to issue clarifying statements every time a secular reporter gets something wrong. Not everything must always be debated in the media. Not every misunderstanding or misrepresentation must always be answered by defending ourselves. Just look at how Jesus lived.


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## AThornquist (Mar 2, 2012)

The one who states his case first seems right, until the other comes and examines him. Proverbs 18:17.


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## Pergamum (Mar 2, 2012)

DMcFadden said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > puritanbooks said:
> ...



Dennis,

With all the needy groups doing good work, I cannot fathom why anyone would support Wycliffe/Frontiers at this present time. I think the best thing to do is to make them suffer a little until they mend their ways (Wycliffe has been recalcitrant on this issue, and has sent out letters stating that the accusations against them are "misleading" thus accusing other Christians who oppose these hyper-contextualizing practices as liars).

Also, I would not lump Christians who use the name Allah for the Christian God in with those that call themselves Muslims. There are several million Indonesian Christians that call God Allah and yet would never call themselves Muslims and know that Allah (generic) is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.


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## Rufus (Mar 2, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> Also, I would not lump Christians who use the name Allah for the Christian God in with those that call themselves Muslims. There are several million Indonesian Christians that call God Allah and yet would never call themselves Muslims and know that Allah (generic) is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.



Doesn't the Arabic translation of the Bible use the word Allah for God the Father?


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## Pergamum (Mar 2, 2012)

I think so. And the Indonesian bible does.


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## Covenant Joel (Mar 2, 2012)

Rufus said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I would not lump Christians who use the name Allah for the Christian God in with those that call themselves Muslims. There are several million Indonesian Christians that call God Allah and yet would never call themselves Muslims and know that Allah (generic) is the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
> ...



Yes...all of them that I know of. I don't know of a single one that uses any other word, since it was used by Arab Christians before Islam even existed.


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## Pergamum (Mar 2, 2012)

Here is an update on this controversy:


Ed Stetzer - Rick Warren Interview on Muslims, Evangelism & Missions (Responding to Recent News Reports)



> Here in the interview Rick sent me:
> 
> QUESTION: Do people of other religions worship the same God as Christians?
> 
> ...


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## DMcFadden (Mar 2, 2012)

Thanks, Pergy. That through a LOT of light on the discussion.


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## Rufus (Mar 2, 2012)

I don't agree with Rick Warren but some of his critics seem to criticize him because he's popular not because of faulty theology and distort, twist, ignore the truth and believe distortions, twists, and lies*.


*Not that you'd ever find me attending Saddleback or endorsing The Purpose Driven Life, because you won't.


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## Craig.Scott (Mar 3, 2012)

Is it true the document 'King's Life' (i think its called) mentions something about Christians and Muslims not proselyting each other?







In Christ


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## J. Dean (Mar 3, 2012)

DMcFadden said:


> Thanks, Pergy. That through a LOT of light on the discussion.


Agreed. This does help. Although I'm still not crazy about Rick's (and his wife Kay's) praise for Henri Nouwen.

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FenderPriest said:


> J. Dean said:
> 
> 
> > While I doubt that Warren is a universalist, it's just not good form to quote people who are seriously errant in their theology and not make any qualifying statements about that person.
> ...


I'm talking about Warren with regard to Nouwen. Warren has expressed favorable things about Henri Nouwen more than once. Nouwen is a Roman Catholic universalist mystic who held approaches to prayer that were questionable at best.


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## heartoflesh (Mar 6, 2012)

Can anyone point me to a truly objective resource regarding Warren? 

Last Sunday evening my church started a special DVD series called "Wide is the Gate" by Caryl Matrisciana and it's very much in the same vein as Dave Hunt, Brannon House, etc. Very sensationalistic, Dispensational-leaning (their website contains extremely anti-Calvinistic sentiments)..... Anyway, the segment last Sunday was on "the counterfeit church" and had a big segment on Warren. During the segment they showed a photo of John Piper sitting next to Warren. I spent a good amount of time afterwards defending Piper (although I know the man's not perfect, and I still want to find out what's going on in his head about warren-- but I have met the man on several occasions and can think of few people who have such a contagious joy in God). 

So I'm trying to get to the bottom of this Warren thing. I appreciate the post above with the recent interview with him, and I forwarded that to the elders hosting this series. Interestingly, one of the big concerns they have with Warren is his association with mysticism (which I haven't gotten to the bottom of yet) and I brought up in class how A.W. Tozer relied heavily on mystics (this is very relevant at my church since we are CMA--- Tozer's denom). Then I found this article on old Tozer, and I'm thinking maybe the elders should examine this ...
The Way of the Mystics & The Roots of AW Tozer's Righteousness | asterisktom on Xanga


By the way, you're probably wondering why in the world I go to this church. We are all very honest with each other, me with my Calvinism and Amillennialism and they with their Arminianism and Dispensational pretrib stuff. If you can find me a good solidly Reformed church within 15 miles of 55024 I would love to consider it. 

peace....


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