# Did Jesus really say that?



## Eoghan (Jun 3, 2008)

"...you must obey them (_the Pharisees_) and do everything they tell you."

How are we to understand this text from the New Testament?


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## BobVigneault (Jun 3, 2008)

Could you please give the context of that verse and the reference please?


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## TimV (Jun 3, 2008)

Matthew 23



> 1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a]that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jun 3, 2008)

TimV said:


> Matthew 23
> 
> 
> 
> > 1 Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, 2 saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe,[a]that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.



Therein lies the answer (i.e. the context). It is pretty clear.


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## BobVigneault (Jun 3, 2008)

Thanks Tim.

Matthew is the only narrative that gives such a conciliatory tone toward the pharisees which reminds us that his audience is primarily Jewish. Luke and Mark give the same warnings regarding the pharisees without this little injunction to show them respect.

When the Jewish leader taught, he stood (according to the commentaries I've seen). When they expounded scripture, they sat. So if the pharisee was sitting in Moses seat he was expounding directly from the law and his teaching would be free of the many 'add ons' that made their teaching notorious.

So the answer would be, yes, Jesus said this because he was speaking to the Jews and wanted to encourage respect for the Law but he was not endorsing the teaching of the traditions and fences that the pharisees added.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 3, 2008)

It is always interesting to notice how Jesus treats the Pharisees against how he treats the Sadducees. He has no time for the Sadducees, yet he always speaks to the Pharisees with a hope, an evangelical tone if you will that shows to me at least that Jesus saw a chance for conversion and a "change of heart" for the Pharisees. However he seems to just dismiss the Sadducees in a manner that supposes that Jesus knew the Sadducees were fully turned over to Satan.


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## danmpem (Jun 4, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> It is always interesting to notice how Jesus treats the Pharisees against how he treats the Sadducees. He has no time for the Sadducees, yet he always speaks to the Pharisees with a hope, an evangelical tone if you will that shows to me at least that Jesus saw a chance for conversion and a "change of heart" for the Pharisees. However he seems to just dismiss the Sadducees in a manner that supposes that Jesus knew the Sadducees were fully turned over to Satan.



 I never noticed that. Could you elaborate a little more please?


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## bookslover (Jun 4, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> It is always interesting to notice how Jesus treats the Pharisees against how he treats the Sadducees. He has no time for the Sadducees, yet he always speaks to the Pharisees with a hope, an evangelical tone if you will that shows to me at least that Jesus saw a chance for conversion and a "change of heart" for the Pharisees. However he seems to just dismiss the Sadducees in a manner that supposes that Jesus knew the Sadducees were fully turned over to Satan.



Well, Jesus tended to agree with the Pharisees *theologically*, while criticising them sternly for their *practice*. As for the Saducees, Jesus, as you say, had no time for them - what with their denial of angels, etc.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 4, 2008)

danmpem said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > It is always interesting to notice how Jesus treats the Pharisees against how he treats the Sadducees. He has no time for the Sadducees, yet he always speaks to the Pharisees with a hope, an evangelical tone if you will that shows to me at least that Jesus saw a chance for conversion and a "change of heart" for the Pharisees. However he seems to just dismiss the Sadducees in a manner that supposes that Jesus knew the Sadducees were fully turned over to Satan.
> ...



Notice when confronting the Pharisees Jesus always is concerned enough with their challenges to answer them in a manner that the Pharisees are usually convicted by Jesus' words.


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## danmpem (Jun 4, 2008)

Could Jesus' attitude toward the Sadducees be compared to Paul's anger to the Galatians at the beginning of his letter, or am I off on that one? How would the Sadducees' denial of the resurrection of the dead be compared to the Corinthians, whom Paul seems to be more gentle with than the Galatians?


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