# Tattoos and other body art...



## Grillsy (Aug 14, 2009)

This subject was discussed briefly in the cremation vs. burial thread. 

For the sake of a more rich discussion, I have started this new thread.

Should Christians get tattoos? What about body piercing or body modification (apparently cosmetic scarring is becoming somewhat popular again)?

What do you think?


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## Repre5entYHWH (Aug 14, 2009)

http://www.puritanboard.com/f103/sinful-get-tattoo-51882/

Majority rules


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## Rogerant (Aug 14, 2009)

The only thing I can think of is one must ask oneself why? Are you not happy or satisfied with what God has given you? Must you disfigure the image of God by painting it with the works of your own hand?

Do you want to display yourself by the character of Christ, or with the image of today's culture?


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## Grillsy (Aug 14, 2009)

Rogerant said:


> The only thing I can think of is one must ask oneself why? Are you not happy or satisfied with what God has given you? Must you disfigure the image of God by painting it with the works of your own hand?
> 
> Do you want to display yourself by the character of Christ, or with the image of today's culture?



Good points. I also want everyone to know that I am started the thread for the sake of discussion. I myself am personally opposed to tattoos and have none. 

I think that this is a situation where our culturally interpretation can seriously come in to play. There is a huge "Christian" tattoo and body art movement happening right now. I find it slightly unsettling even though I would say that not ALL tattoos are sinful.


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## Pergamum (Aug 14, 2009)

Genesis 24 and Ezekial 16.

Ear piercings and nose piercings are body modifications, but Scripture speaks of them as things of beauty.


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## Repre5entYHWH (Aug 14, 2009)

Rogerant said:


> The only thing I can think of is one must ask oneself why? Are you not happy or satisfied with what God has given you? Must you disfigure the image of God by painting it with the works of your own hand?
> 
> Do you want to display yourself by the character of Christ, or with the image of today's culture?



I could say this about working out .... or tanning ... or building a city or wearing clothes  ... or cutting your hair. 

personally i think Tattoos look neat i have a half sleve but they are expensive and not good stewardship of your money (unless they are free)


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## MikelKenn89 (Aug 14, 2009)

I have one, and honestly enjoy them,...the only thing I could see sinful about them is I remember when I got mine i IMMEDIATELY wanted another, and it is almost addicting, but as long as you keep that part in check i See nothing wrong with it, 

That being said im SICK of people using "christian" tattoo's as "witnessing tools" its just as bad as cheesy christian T Shirts. 

I DO plan on getting One more at the very least in memory of my father, a 62 Goldtop Les Paul (his guitar)


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## TeachingTulip (Aug 15, 2009)

Grillsy said:


> This subject was discussed briefly in the cremation vs. burial thread.
> 
> For the sake of a more rich discussion, I have started this new thread.
> 
> ...



Has this Scripture been presented?

"You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord." Leviticus 19:28

I agree that it seems to be addictive. I work out in the ungodly public, and in the last couple of years, I am seeing more and more body disfigurements; whether tattoos or piercings, especially amongst women, who are not just sporting little markings on their ankles any longer, but covering entire limbs and portions of their torsos (and who knows where else!) with ink!

Seems like to keep getting attention, people are doing more and more, just to appear radical and non-conformance. And most of the tattoos tends to depict gore, evil, and Satanic symbols.

Of course, I consider the "non-conformance" to be a display against how they were created beautiful by God, so in my opinion, the practice of such " body tagging" is pure rebellion against God.


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## Grillsy (Aug 15, 2009)

TeachingTulip said:


> Grillsy said:
> 
> 
> > This subject was discussed briefly in the cremation vs. burial thread.
> ...



You make some good points. However, what about he preceding verse in Leviticus, about shaving? Would that not also apply to us if the tattoo verse does?


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## Pergamum (Aug 15, 2009)

TeachingTulip said:


> Grillsy said:
> 
> 
> > This subject was discussed briefly in the cremation vs. burial thread.
> ...



I knew someone would bring this up sooner or later. People don't usually get tattoes "for the dead" but for body modification purposes.


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## TeachingTulip (Aug 15, 2009)

Grillsy said:


> TeachingTulip said:
> 
> 
> > Grillsy said:
> ...



The preceding verse forbids "disfigurement" that can be caused by shavings, which seems to denote an attempt at abnormal appearance (cp Matt. 6:16), more than any kind of innocent "modification".

Plus, shaving is not a permanent disfiguration, like cutting or tattooing.


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## Repre5entYHWH (Aug 15, 2009)

TeachingTulip said:


> [
> 
> Has this Scripture been presented?
> 
> "You shall not make any cuttings in your flesh for the dead, nor tattoo any marks on you: I am the Lord."



this is reading into the text a modern day meaning of tattoos for one, cutting and marking the body was a cultish practice and for Israel it was wrong to associate with the cults they were to be set apart hence


> You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.


 in the previous verse. but now we are in the world but not of it, Jesus said go and not stay. if we really wanted to be set apart as Israel was i guess we can be complete fundamentalist and do the exact opposite of whatever culture is doing sinful or not. 

pardon the snarkyness


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## ewenlin (Aug 15, 2009)

Would the way certain cultures view tattoos influence your decision? If society by and large frown upon and shun those with tattoos, would you still claim your christian liberty to tattoos?


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## Repre5entYHWH (Aug 15, 2009)

ewenlin said:


> Would the way certain cultures view tattoos influence your decision? If society by and large frown upon and shun those with tattoos, would you still claim your christian liberty to tattoos?



good question.... 
it probably would, like forking your tongue probably wouldn't be wise or stretching your ears four inches or getting a tattoo on your face. 

but if i go to a culture where all men tattoo their faces and i refuse than i don't think that would be wise either.... i just better hope i live there for a while


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## ewenlin (Aug 15, 2009)

Repre5entYHWH said:


> ewenlin said:
> 
> 
> > Would the way certain cultures view tattoos influence your decision? If society by and large frown upon and shun those with tattoos, would you still claim your christian liberty to tattoos?
> ...



That's true. Although forking one's tongue? I feel a little grossed out just thinking about it. Ewwww


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## EricP (Aug 15, 2009)

Having been a Navy and Marine guy years ago, I'm just thankful that in my many unbelieving days I didn't come out with a tattoo or two (that just sounds good!). So much seems to come down to the motive of the heart--is that thing on your arm (or some much more embarrassing place) really honoring God? 
Many also forget the age (with it seem inevitable weight gain/loss) and grandchildren factor: "grandma', what's that illegible blob over your tailbone?", as well as the first job interview factor: "so, should we expect visits from other gang members at our law firm?". 
This also brings up the question of "cosmetic" surgery: is vanity (usual motive, rather than reconstruction) a good reason for surgery? Should our focus be on abs and implants rather than God? Life does get complicated!


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## LawrenceU (Aug 15, 2009)

You bring up a good point, albeit not a Scriptural issue, in the age factor. My daughter has a neighbour friend whose grandmother has a somewhat Betty Boop-like tattoo in her armpit. It used to be over her shoulder-blade when she was young. And then there is that battleship that was listing as it slipped under the seas on the chest of the man that lived down the road from my house when I was growing up. From what he said it was cutting quite a wake when he had it done in 1942.


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## ewenlin (Aug 15, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> You bring up a good point, albeit not a Scriptural issue, in the age factor. My daughter has a neighbour friend whose *grandmother has a somewhat Betty Boop-like tattoo in her armpit. It used to be on her over here shoulder-blade when she was young.* And then there is that battleship that was listing as it slipped under the seas on the chest of the man that lived down the road from my house when I was growing up. From what he said it was cutting quite a wake when he had it done in 1942.



I almost spilled my drink...


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## Edward (Aug 15, 2009)

The theological issues were discussed on the closed thread:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f103/sinful-get-tattoo-51882/

I never would have married a girl with a TS, and in my single days I wouldn't date women who smoked or had tats. But a lot of folks are more open minded and tolerant that I am.


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## Bald_Brother (Aug 15, 2009)

With respect to the quoting of Leviticus 19, I just want to point out...


> 19 "You shall keep my statutes. *You shall not let your cattle breed with a different kind.*


...this past week I had a Brangus burger and loved it...


> You shall not sow your field with two kinds of seed, *nor shall you wear a garment of cloth made of two kinds of material.*


... I'm wearing a cotton/poly blend Fruit of the Loom t-shirt while typing this...


> 23"When you come into the land and plant any kind of tree for food, then you shall regard its fruit as forbidden. *Three years it shall be forbidden to you;* it must not be eaten.


...I may have had a forbidden Granny Smith the other day...


> 26 "You shall not eat any flesh with the blood in it.


...I eat porterhouse rare...


> 27 You shall not round off the hair on your temples or mar the edges of your beard.


...I mar the edges (and the rest) of my beard every morning with a Mach 3...


> 28You shall not make any cuts on your body for the dead or tattoo yourselves: I am the LORD.


...and I have tattoos. (Of course, they aren't of Egyptian gods or paying worship to dead pharaoh's or anything like that.)

Maybe my sanctification isn't working?

Or maybe I'm missing something.



> Leviticus 20
> 22 "You shall therefore keep all my statutes and all my rules and do them, that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them. 24But I have said to you, 'You shall inherit their land, and I will give it to you to possess, a land flowing with milk and honey.' I am the LORD your God, who has separated you from the peoples. 25 You shall therefore separate the clean beast from the unclean, and the unclean bird from the clean. You shall not make yourselves detestable by beast or by bird or by anything with which the ground crawls, which I have set apart for you to hold unclean. 26 You shall be holy to me, for I the LORD am holy and have separated you from the peoples, that you should be mine.



Pardon the snarkiness, but the out of context use of Lev. 19:28 is a Fundie argument I've had to deal with soooo many times. 

Now to the original question:


> Should Christians get tattoos? What about body piercing or body modification (apparently cosmetic scarring is becoming somewhat popular again)?


Honestly, this is something I've wrestled with lately. And, as a result, I will not get another tattoo unless I can do so with a clear conscience.

Here is where my wrestling is:

My righteousness is not found in myself. I am not holy because I am holy. My righteousness and my holiness are fully dependent upon Christ's holiness and Christ's righteousness. Does this mean I go on sinning that I depend upon Christ even more? No. 

But, we do have liberties that the OT Jews didn't have because our holiness is not dependent on ourselves. Now, physical circumcision doesn't set apart, not eating certain meats doesn't set us apart, the "pureness" of our farms doesn't set us apart....

...and so, I never had an issue of conscience when getting tattooed. As far as I was concerned, I was giving glory to God through art and art that was focused on Biblical stories. I didn't have any sort of pro v. con justification argument, I saw it as an issue of Christian liberty.

But, that being said, I've run into three arguments that have given me pause. The first is the issue of vanity. I don't think I'm vain (no, vanity assumes one _thinks_ they're pretty. I _know_ I'm pretty) but I'm afraid I may give the impression of vanity with my tattoos. The second is the issue of stewardship. As mentioned earlier, tattoos can be expensive and, honestly, better things can be done with the money... which points back to the first issue of vanity. The third is the matter of the _Imago Dei_ which is a concept with which I wrestle on it's own accord... being complicated by substantive, relational, functional, or combined understandings.

So, though I will not go back and believe I sinned in getting the tattoos I already have, I will say that would sin if I got one tomorrow as I would not be doing it with a clear conscience, but out of selfishness (cause I do want to finish my right arm).

-----Added 8/15/2009 at 11:18:59 EST-----



Edward said:


> The theological issues were discussed on the closed thread:
> 
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f103/sinful-get-tattoo-51882/
> 
> I never would have married a girl with a TS, and in my single days I wouldn't date women who smoked or had tats. But a lot of folks are more open minded and tolerant that I am.



When I try getting to the link, I get this message:


> *Bald_Brother*, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
> 
> 1. Your user account may not have sufficient privileges to access this page. Are you trying to edit someone else's post, access administrative features or some other privileged system?
> 2. If you are trying to post, the administrator may have disabled your account, or it may be awaiting activation.



Suggestions?


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## jwithnell (Aug 15, 2009)

It's more the association that bothers me. And as a parent of apprentice adults, this is more of a day-to-day issue for me. We've had to push back on our oldest son wanting to wear the hip-hop baggy pants. I don't care if he wears something "weird" I have a problem with him wanting to visually associate himself with the gang culture. Same thing would apply to body piercings and tattoos and their association with gangs, rebellion, ****, the occult, you name it ...


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## Edward (Aug 15, 2009)

Bald_Brother said:


> When I try getting to the link, I get this message:
> 
> 
> > *Bald_Brother*, you do not have permission to access this page. This could be due to one of several reasons:
> ...



It should be available to you when you have made a few more posts. I think you get access to that area when you get your 'thanks' button, but it may take a little longer.


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## Bald_Brother (Aug 15, 2009)

Edward said:


> Bald_Brother said:
> 
> 
> > When I try getting to the link, I get this message:
> ...



I have the Thanks button, now. It must take a bit longer. No biggie. I'll get to it later, I'm sure. Thank you.


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