# Evening Service Practice



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 4, 2011)

Quick question what the practice at the church of which you are a member concerning the second service. 

We are re-starting our evening service after about a year and a half of not having one and I personally have never been a member of a church with two services and had a couple questions concerning how best to facilitate the second service. How closely does your second service mirror the morning service? Do you take an offering at both services? 

Any help/advice is appreciated.


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## Tripel (Jan 4, 2011)

Our evening service is pretty similar to the morning service. Yes, we have an offering at both.


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## Phil D. (Jan 4, 2011)

We've had evening service at our church for a little over a year now. While it is a bit less formal, it is essentially a shortened version of morning service (prayers, 3 or 4 songs, 20-30 minute expositional sermon), lasting from 45 minutes to an hour (children need to get to bed early for school). We don't take an offering_ per se_, but do place an offering basket by the door. Our attendance is still generally quite small (10-15) as compared to morning worship (40-60). Personally, I find it a very good way to end the Lord's Day!


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## he beholds (Jan 4, 2011)

We have a prayer meeting Sun. evening. It's opened with a Psalm or hymn and then a very brief sermon (for instance, our pastor will go through the Beatitudes, teaching on one per week). Then our pastor stands at the chalkboard and takes prayer requests/praises. Then he sits down, opens in prayer, any of us can pray, and an elder closes. We close with a doxology. The taking of prayer requests and praying makes up the largest part of the service., maybe 45 minutes or more.


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## EverReforming (Jan 4, 2011)

My church doesn't have an evening service, but I used to attend a church that held Sunday evening services. In terms of format, it pretty much followed the same thing as the morning services. However, it was a completely different service. Different songs were sung during worship, an entirely different message was preached, etc. It generally felt a little more relaxed, but all in all, it was treated as a separate service from the morning.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 4, 2011)

The stereotype is that the evening service is just like a morning service, just not done so well.

Don't feel compelled to do something that doesn't fit your congregation. If a prayer service and a Bible Study fits better than another worship service, then try that. Just speak with your session - and get input from the congregation - and don't be afraid to admit that you're figuring out the format that's best for your congregation.


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## PuritanZealot (Jan 4, 2011)

Our evening service is identical to the morning service - 
Hymn
Bible reading
Prayer
Notices
Hymn
Sermon (1 hour)
Hymn
Benediction


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## Kevin (Jan 4, 2011)

Ben,

my advice is to be flexible. Do not commit to a format too soon. try several different things if possible, i.e. 1st Sunday prayer meeting, 2nd Sunday teach the WSC, 3rd etc. The sooner you get started on a regular format the harder it will be to change.

Does your congregation desire an evening service to remind them of the "glory days" when the church was full & they had young families in attendence? If so then you might find yourself stuck with a "memorial service" to a past era (50's? 70's?) that is just like the old days.

My suggestion is to keep you options open with regard to format. It may end up looking like a very different service, and that may be the key to reaching a whole new group of people.

Also don't be in a rush! An additional service will double your workload on Sunday, wipe out your productivity on Monday, & could add at least 12-15 hours of work during the week. This is time that will have to come from somewhere. Since no other responsibility is going away, then it will come from your outreach & evangelism time or from your family.

Can you afford to give up 10+ hours a week "on the street"? Can you leave your family? in my opinion, No & No.

I can only imagine the pressures from a congregation that has been in decline for some years & that has a shiny new minister. Now they want to immediately get back what they lost, such as a second service.

What they need is not always the same as what they want. What they need is the ministry of Word & Sacrament on the Lords day. And the revitalisation that comes from refocusing on the mission of the church & the enthusiasm that seeing souls saved will bring. That may not be the same thing as returning to all of the old ministries & services.

there is also a job performance issue involved. It is a temptation to "prove your worth" in the early days in any new job by doing everthing that anyone wants. However that should not be a deciding factor in ministry. Our fulfilment of our calling is not judged by how many services we held, or how many bible studies we led, but by our faithfulness to Gods Mission.

pax,


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## Curt (Jan 4, 2011)

Our evening service has been flexible over the years. Currently, it looks like this:


5:30-6pm - Prayer for Missions and Missionaries
6-6:20ish - Hymns (from Blue Trinity hymnal)
6:20-?? - Discussion of the morning's sermon.***
?? - 7, 7:15 or whatever - Lesson in Systematic Theology (currently in the Work of the Holy Spirit).

*** There are times, like this past Sunday, when this discussion goes on 'til 7:30 or so. I don't try to cram in a lesson after that. I'm in no hurry.

In March, I will be starting a semester on Calvin's Institutes (open to the public, but I don't expect many - if any). The time frame will be alterred slightly and enforced a lot more.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 4, 2011)

We just meet for worship.

main Differences: 
In the AM service, I read the Law and follow that with a prayer of Confession, then read some other text for the assurance of Pardon.

In the PM service, we incorporate some unison creedal/confessional statement (a vow).
Prior to the Call to worship, we sing three congregational selections.
We have a PM offering, but twice a month it is for some special designation.


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## N. Eshelman (Jan 4, 2011)

Psalm Favorites (Congregation chooses)
Prayer
Scripture Reading
Lesson/Sermon
Psalm Favorites
Benediction

Less than one hour. No offering. No "long prayer", but still a pastoral prayer. Sermon shorter (30 minutes usually, AM is 45-50 minutes).


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## dannyhyde (Jan 4, 2011)

Coming from my particular tradition, of course we see public worship more than once on the Lord's Day as indispensable to the Lord's Day itself as well as to the faith and maturation of the people of God. As well, the focus of the AM and PM services are different, with the PM focused, historically, upon catechesis.

What we've done at OURC is this:

Morning: we do see this as the "main" service as the liturgy is fuller with the "high points" being the Ten Commandments, confession, and absolution, the Word read and preached, and the weekly celebration of the Lord's Supper.

Evening: the liturgy is shorter, the feeling is a little more casual, and the focus is upon singing through the Psalms (as of way of introducing and familiarizing ourselves with Psalm-singing), prayer for our church's mission as well as our missionaries, and an exposition and application of the Christian Faith using some catechetical piece (Heidelberg, Larger Catechism).


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## fredtgreco (Jan 4, 2011)

Ben,

Our evening service is very similar to our morning, but more informal. I don't think it is less well done, just more of an opportunity for our people to build community. The preaching is similar. The main differences are that we allow hymn requests, prayer requests, and I have an "Ask the Pastor" time. I've attached a bulletin that has our morning and evening order of worship.
View attachment 2008


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## Jack K (Jan 4, 2011)

What Kevin said...

You're starting a new job, at a new ministry post, and the pressures/demands will be many. Make it easy on yourself. Make it prep-light. You can build more later on if you feel you need to and have the time.


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## Romans922 (Jan 4, 2011)

I will have to disagree highly with Ben (SolaScriptura) and Kevin (Kevin). They said something similar and I will just quote a couple things they said. 

Kevin said, "try several different things if possible, i.e. 1st Sunday prayer meeting, 2nd Sunday teach the WSC, 3rd etc."

Ben said, "If a prayer service and a Bible Study fits better than another worship service, then try that."



If you are going to have an evening service in order to keep the Lord's Day holy and have the members do so as well, then why have a prayer service or why have a bible study when you can hear the preaching of the Word of God? 

You do all of those things (even teaching the Westminster Standards) via a worship service where the Word is Preached faithfully. 

As Presbyterians, the WLC should be sufficient to prove this case. It states,

*Q. 153. What doth God require of us, that we may escape his wrath and curse due to us by reason of the transgression of the law?*
A. That we may escape the wrath and curse of God due to us by reason of the transgression of the law, he requireth of us repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ, and the diligent use of the outward means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of his mediation.
*Q. 154. What are the outward means whereby Christ communicates to us the benefits of his mediation?*
A. The outward and ordinary means whereby Christ communicates to his church the benefits of his mediation, are all his ordinances; especially the Word, sacraments, and prayer; all which are made effectual to the elect for their salvation.
*Q. 155. How is the Word made effectual to salvation?*
A. The Spirit of God maketh the reading, but especially the preaching of the Word, an effectual means of enlightening, convincing, and humbling sinners; of driving them out of themselves, and drawing them unto Christ; of conforming them to his image, and subduing them to his will; of strengthening them against temptations and corruptions; of building them up in grace, and establishing their hearts in holiness and comfort through faith unto salvation.




If you want the best for your congregation, you will have a time where you preach the Word to them. If you have the opportunity to do it twice, take it! It sounds like the Session wants this at your church. Take that opportunity. If I wasn't lazy, I would suggest we do it even more on the Lord's Day. Center ourselves around God's Word and let us hear Jesus speak to us through His messenger and by His Spirit.


If you have a choice between prayer only, bible study, or Preaching the Word which occurs in a worship service where there is prayer and teaching of the bible, then go for preaching the Word. It is especially that which God uses for effecting salvation and sanctification.




So you are on the right track at looking at what a worship service should look like in the evening. In the south, regularly the congregation desires the evening service, so it isn't out of the ordinary for them. 



All that you need in a worship service is Read/Preached Scripture, Prayer, Read/Preached Scripture, Singing, Read/Preached Scripture, Read/Preached Scripture, Read/Preached Scripture.


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## CharlieJ (Jan 4, 2011)

I think a good question to ask is how the proposed new service complements what is already going on throughout the week. For example, if the congregation does not have a regular prayer time, maybe that could be it. If it doesn't have a time devoted to exploring Bible doctrine (as opposed to lectio continua preaching), perhaps that can fill the void. I don't see how it makes sense to do nearly the same thing twice in one day if that means other areas won't be covered at all during the week.

At Downtown Pres, the Sunday night activities vary. Right now, the deacons are conducting a study and discussion through the book When Helping Hurts. Previously, the pastor taught a summary of Christian doctrine using the WCF as a guideline.


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## Scottish Lass (Jan 4, 2011)

Our format is different: we are going through the Psalms. Tim teaches/preaches on the psalms sequentially, we sing a psalter arrangement of that same psalm, and sometimes sing a few others. We close with a time of prayer. It is much more informal.


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## Wayne (Jan 4, 2011)

Here's an idea: Use the evening sermon to dig a bit deeper into the text from the morning sermon, or to say some of the things that you just didn't have time for in the AM.


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## AThornquist (Jan 4, 2011)

We don't take offerings in any service. We have a small box in the foyer where members can discreetly and non-distractedly put their offerings. The main differences between our evening and morning service are that in the evening we have a focused time of corporate prayer for about 45 mins. and then a shorter time of worship in song than in the morning. We also have a different sermon series in the PM than we do in the AM and by different pastors. Also, on the first Sunday of the month we have communion, which changes the order of service quite a bit: we start by worship in song and then a sermon, and then we walk to the fellowship hall and have communion at tables, pray, and share encouraging ways that the Lord has worked in our lives recently.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 4, 2011)

Romans922 said:


> All that you need in a worship service is Read/Preached Scripture, Prayer, Read/Preached Scripture, Singing, Read/Preached Scripture, Read/Preached Scripture, Read/Preached Scripture.



What about Sacraments?

I mean, come on. "Why have a prayer service or a Bible Study when I can _listen to a sermon_?" Really? Is corporate prayer not important? Is singing not important? (And I sure hope your songs are instructive!) If we have a sermon on Sunday night, who says it has to be a 45 minute message? Why not plus up the singing and praying and perhaps shorten the message? Flexibility is key. I'm not denigrating the importance of the preached word. I love preaching. But as I read Scripture the overarching category is TEACHING, and the songs are a means of teaching, the preaching is a means of teaching, even the sacraments have an instructional component. Preaching is vital. But an evening service can take on a different shape from the morning service. Where is it written that if the church conducts an activity that it has to look the same? (The RPW dictates the elements - not the organization or focus or time, etc). If you want, sure, have a service that's identical to the morning worship. There is NOTHING wrong with that. But one must not feel that the evening activity mirrors the morning or else it is sub-Christian.

What I'm really an advocate for is having the creativity to be able to to different things. I've recently had conversations with a pastor friend and all he knows is "Sunday worship service." He doesn't really know how to teach something in non-sermonic format (so his Sunday School class is basically just them listening to him preach another sermon), he doesn't know how to do a Bible study, per se, he just knows "Sunday worship service." So whenever he does anything it looks like a Sunday worship service. So his church wanted to do a candlelight Christmas Eve service and he didn't know what to do. 

Anyway, Ben - do what you want. Just please do take the advice from Kevin about pacing yourself. I know you're zealous to prove you're a real _bona fide_ Reformed minister who is serious about worship and preaching and all that, and I'm also confident that you wisely want to get off on a good foot with your new congregation... but I'd share the counsel to let yourself (and your family) get accustomed to your current schedule and workload before you begin adding to it.

---------- Post added at 04:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:14 PM ----------




Wayne said:


> Here's an idea: Use the evening sermon to dig a bit deeper into the text from the morning sermon, or to say some of the things that you just didn't have time for in the AM.


 
I really like that idea. Coupled with a Q/A session about the mornings' sermon and I'd be totally game for it. 

At the church I attend, one of the Sunday School options is you can meet in the pastor's study and discuss the sermon. It is really good and many find it helpful for getting clarification on things we may have not understood, or getting additional depth on certain points, etc.


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## Jack K (Jan 4, 2011)

SolaScriptura said:


> > Originally Posted by Wayne
> > Here's an idea: Use the evening sermon to dig a bit deeper into the text from the morning sermon, or to say some of the things that you just didn't have time for in the AM.
> > I really like that idea. Coupled with a Q/A session about the mornings' sermon and I'd be totally game for it.
> >
> ...


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## Grace Alone (Jan 4, 2011)

Our evening meeting is more informal in format and attire. We begin at 6:00 with a hymn or two, then make prayer requests, then we pray, next the pastor discusses the sermon, asks questions, and answers questions on that topic, closing prayer, supper at 7:00. We have covered dish (lighter foods in the evening) or have one family bring a main dish item and others bring side items or desserts. We have around 30 on Sunday evening. It gives us a chance to pray together, learn more about the morning sermon, and have a sweet time of fellowship. There have been times there were few families there, but our pastor is faithful in continuing. We have in the past had Bible study instead of sermon discussion, but I honestly feel that it is beneficial to extend the teaching on the sermon topic so we really learn that well (normally our pastor preaches through books of the Bible).


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## Bradwardine (Jan 4, 2011)

Our evening service is the same as the morning service except in the morning service we have a children's address for the Sunday School (age approx 4-11) who then leave the service for their own teaching - the Bible Class (age approx 12-17) join the morning service for the sermon having had their own teaching separately. When there have been more children attending the evening service the preacher prepared quiz sheets as a way of helping them concentrate on the sermon (probably helped some adults too!)


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## Peairtach (Jan 4, 2011)

Evening service tends to be the same as the morning except there is less emphasis on the unsaved as usually more of the unsaved or non-communicants come out in the morning.

Morning sevice at 11 am. Evening service at 6pm. Some churches tends to be 6:30 pm.

The minister finshed a long series on Moses recently. He's been doing various of the Psalms recently.

We often have four Psalm singings, two prayers and the sermon at our Sabbath services.

The minister or visiting preacher leads the usually 2 prayers.

We just have a collection plate in the foyer in the am and pm.

In the am the kids go out before the sermon and after the children's sermon/talk to the Sabbath School, which I believe is a mistake.

Our services tend to be an hour to an hour and ten minutes, unlike in the Free Presbyterian Church where they were an hour and a half.

The Free Church congregations in Scotland wouldn't cancel the two Lord's Day services and the mid-week PM unless because of an emergency.

We have a cup of tea or coffee in the hall after the services so people can "fellowship", and sometimes we have a meeting at the manse.

*Quote from Ben*


> Why not plus up the singing and praying and perhaps shorten the message?



Probably for another thread, but is there the strong emphasis on the sung worship in the NT that there is in many evangelical churches?


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