# You Might Be A Dispensationalist If . . .



## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

You Might Be a Dispensationalist If . . . 
1. you named your first child “Cyrus Ingersoll,” even though it was a girl.
2. when you pray, you turn and face towards Dallas.
3. you’re surprised and embarrassed by Jack Deere.
4. you need charts to teach the Book of Psalms.
5. you think Jesus used PowerPoint for the Sermon on the Mount.
6. you’re familiar with Chafer, but not Schaeffer.
7. when you’re driving home at night and see a bright light in the sky, you unfasten your seat belt and “get ready.”
8. you find prophetic significance in Eliot Spitzer's arrest.
9. you know who John Nelson Darby is and have his synopsis of the Bible.
10. your favorite definition of “economy” comes from Charles Ryrie.
11. when asked for a commentary on the Revelation, you turn to your complete collection of Left Behind books.
12. your prayer group is concerned that Dallas has "gone liberal."
13. when asked a question about Pentecost, your first impulse is to answer Dwight.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Mar 12, 2008)

I especially like # 7!


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## Dr Mike Kear (Mar 12, 2008)

That's good stuff. I liked #8. My best friend from high school's mom saw prophetic fulfillment in every news event. Everything that happened was either "a communist plot" or "a fulfillment of prophecy"!


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## Blue Tick (Mar 12, 2008)

> you find prophetic significance in Eliot Spitzer's arrest.


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## Blue Tick (Mar 12, 2008)

11. You've decided on your own study that Tim LaHaye and Hal Lindsey are the two witnessess in Revelation 11.

12. You have memorized "I wish we all been ready"

13. You've decided to write a commentary on the Left Behind series, only it will be in Greek and Hebrew.

14. You and your friends are going to create Left Behind action figures and sell them on eBay.

15. You've never met a Post-Tribber

16. Each year the Lord lays it on your heart to visit Israel

17. You like reformed churches, but wish they had an altar call


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## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

John,

You've got to come up with some new ones. Those were priceless.


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## Zenas (Mar 12, 2008)

I didn't understand them.


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## David_A_Reed (Mar 12, 2008)

18. You think when the Jews left Egypt and entered the Promised Land they found literal streams of milk and rivers of honey there. 

(For those unfamiliar with it, Joel 3:18 is fulfilled in volume 13 of the Left Behind series by literal streams of milk and streams of wine that the characters drink from. And Tim LaHaye explains in a note at the end of that volume that "we believe what we have portrayed here will happen someday.")

19. You keep a tennis racket on hand to swat the locusts of Rev. 9:1-9.

(One of the characters does that in volume 5 of the series.)


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## Grymir (Mar 12, 2008)

20. You think Joel Olsteen is apostate not because he doesn't preach Jesus and Him crucified, but because he never mentions the rapture!


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## Blue Tick (Mar 12, 2008)

> 20. You think Joel Olsteen is apostate not because he doesn't preach Jesus and Him crucified, but because he never mentions the rapture![/QUOTE
> 
> Good one!


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## RamistThomist (Mar 12, 2008)

David_A_Reed said:


> 18. You think when the Jews left Egypt and entered the Promised Land they found literal streams of milk and rivers of honey there.



Raises hand


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## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

21. you have Dallas Theological Seminary as your internet "home page."


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## greenbaggins (Mar 12, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> 21. you have Dallas Theological Seminary as your internet "home page."



Or took it off from having it your home page for years, because some are going progressive Dispensational (aka liberal).


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## Josiah (Mar 12, 2008)

19. You keep a tennis racket on hand to swat the locusts of Rev. 9:1-9.

(One of the characters does that in volume 5 of the series.)[/QUOTE]


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## Josiah (Mar 12, 2008)

greenbaggins said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > 21. you have Dallas Theological Seminary as your internet "home page."
> ...




Progressive? I never thought I would here about dispensationalists going liberal. As a former Dispensational, that was the worst thing a person could become (other than a Calvinist ). 

Who is behind this leftward move in the dispensational camp? This leads me to ask just how many dispensationalists are fundamentalists (as I was)?


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## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

Josiah said:


> Who is behind this leftward move in the dispensational camp? This leads me to ask just how many dispensationalists are fundamentalists (as I was)?



Progressive dispensationalists are NOT liberal. Some traditional dispis may consider them so because, rather than embracing the church age as a parenthesis, they perceive that this present dispensation is a key link between past dispensations and the future dispensations. 

Progressives, instead of approaching all Old Testament quotations in the New Testament as application, attempt to take into account the context and historical-grammatical features of both Old Testament and New Testament texts. Also, you will find that progressive dispensationalism uses much more of the "already but not yet" thinking popular in NT scholarship generally. Some traditional dispensationalists complain that progressive dispensationalism is just covenant theology in sheep's clothing.


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## greenbaggins (Mar 12, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Josiah said:
> 
> 
> > Who is behind this leftward move in the dispensational camp? This leads me to ask just how many dispensationalists are fundamentalists (as I was)?
> ...



Right. In answer to Josiah, I was not claiming that progressive Dispensationalists were liberal. Rather, I was trying to spoof what some traditional Dispensationalists would say about progressives. Apparently, no one saw the humor in it. It was an unsuccessful attempt at humor.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 12, 2008)

greenbaggins said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > Josiah said:
> ...



I saw the humor in it and I think it hits close to home as well. I indeed heard a man say a few years ago that his son was attending Tyndale Seminary in Ft. Worth because "Dallas is going liberal". This probably had reference mostly to the school becoming more progressive and less classicaly dispensationalist (If I recall correctly Tyndale was founded in response to that trend). But by other standards one could argue they are becoming more liberal. Some examples would be having the RC William Bennett speak, the NET Bible adopting the RSV's rendering of Isa. 7:14, and egalitarian and evangelical feminist influence. For the latter, see here and here. Of course much the same could be said of several Reformed seminaries and feminism.


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## Thomas2007 (Mar 12, 2008)

22. You see the return of Absinthe liqueor (made from Wormword) as a sign of the immanent rapture. (see this thread)


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## A5pointer (Mar 12, 2008)

Thomas2007 said:


> 22. You see the return of Absinthe liqueor (made from Wormword) as a sign of the immanent rapture. (see this thread)



Your gonna be in trouble fro breaking the quarantine of the Pub.


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## Christusregnat (Mar 12, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> You Might Be a Dispensationalist If . . .
> 1. you named your first child “Cyrus Ingersoll,” even though it was a girl.
> 2. when you pray, you turn and face towards Dallas.
> 3. you’re surprised and embarrassed by Jack Deere.
> ...



LOL


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## RamistThomist (Mar 12, 2008)

Josiah said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> > DMcFadden said:
> ...



Progressive dispensationalists are very respectable theologians who can easily give amils a run for their money. They are continually throwing out challenges that are going unanswered. It was partly PD that moved me towards historic premil.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 12, 2008)

Ivanhoe said:


> Josiah said:
> 
> 
> > greenbaggins said:
> ...



What are some of the challenges? (Or should we start another thread about that so as not to hijack this one?)


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## RamistThomist (Mar 12, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> Ivanhoe said:
> 
> 
> > Josiah said:
> ...



Russ Moore is not PD, but he endnotes the challenges. I have in mind--never mind. I have to get home and look at Moore's book. But Vern Poythress admitted some difficulties in response to one of these challenges. 

And I need to further qualifiy: Mark Karlberg wrote a neo-platonic rebuttal to Moore's book (and Mathison's and a few others).


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## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

greenbaggins said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > Josiah said:
> ...



I saw the humor and thought it was hilarious.  Pushed to dash off my note before going to lunch with my staff, I only dealt with Josiah's substantive question as to what progressives believe.


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## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> But by other standards one could argue they are becoming more liberal. Some examples would be having the RC William Bennett speak, the NET Bible adopting the RSV's rendering of Isa. 7:14, and egalitarian and evangelical feminist influence. For the latter, see here and here. Of course much the same could be said of several Reformed seminaries and the feminism.



I LOVE the linguistic notes in the NET Bible but choke on Isa 7:14 also (reminds me of one of my OT profs in seminary). And, the egalitarian impact upon evangelicalism is nearly complete. The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (CBMW) (The Council on Biblical Manhood and Womanhood) stands almost alone among evangelical organizations bucking this trend. Other than MacArthur at Masters, what seminaries can say that they have not got at least one prof promoting the egalitarian view?

In order not to hijack my own thread . . .

23. you experienced extreme cognitive dissonance when you learned that John MacArthur speaks at the Ligonier conferences.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Mar 12, 2008)

> you know who John Nelson Darby is and have his synopsis of the Bible.



Oh no! I do know who JND was! (And I have my very own copy of: 
A New Translation by J. N. Darby). And Ryrie defines "economy" as follows:



> Economy..suggets the fact certain features of different dispensations might be the same of similar.


 Dispensationalism Today, page 30.

But I am not a dispensationalist!!! 
I'm Not!
Uh uh! No way!
I'm not!!!

I used to be, but that was in a different dispensation of my life!


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## Pilgrim (Mar 12, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Pilgrim said:
> 
> 
> > But by other standards one could argue they are becoming more liberal. Some examples would be having the RC William Bennett speak, the NET Bible adopting the RSV's rendering of Isa. 7:14, and egalitarian and evangelical feminist influence. For the latter, see here and here. Of course much the same could be said of several Reformed seminaries and the feminism.
> ...



Masters is notable for not admitting women to classes at all, as it is an institution dedicated to training preachers. 

I would be surprised if Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary and Mid-America Reformed Seminary (MARS) had any egals, although women do attend GPTS (don't know about MARS) and can earn an MA. The fact that GPTS only began in the late 80's and MARS in the 90's (I think) probably has a whole lot to do with it. These institutions seem to broaden as time goes on although some do it very quickly and others over the course of many decades. WSCAL probably doesn't have any either. Does Southern Seminary have anyone now promoting the egalitarian view? I would be surprised since that is such an emphasis for Moore, Mohler, etc. Some if not all of the other SBC seminaries are probably fairly strong on this now too since the "takeover" was in part a reaction against these kinds of influences. 

But in some contexts, everything is ok except for a woman assuming the pulpit during worship but they would be shocked if someone considered them egalitarian for them having a woman song leader or women teaching mixed adult classes. Some thought Huckabee defended complementarianism in the Presidential debate when he actually did the opposite and the questioners were probably not knowledgeable on the issue to follow up on his dodge.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 12, 2008)

24. You think MacArthur abandoned Dispensationalism when he started advocating "Lordship Salvation."


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## CDM (Mar 12, 2008)

Your wristwatch has 7 dispensations of time rather than timezones.

You are terrified of flying on a plane (for those familiar with Left Behind) .


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## Pilgrim (Mar 12, 2008)

25. You keep looking for that flawless red heifer so the Temple can be rebuilt.


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## danmpem (Mar 12, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> I would be surprised if Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary and Mid-America Reformed Seminary (MARS) had any egals, although women do attend GPTS (don't know about MARS) and can earn an MA. The fact that GPTS only began in the late 80's and MARS in the 90's (I think) probably has a whole lot to do with it. These institutions seem to broaden as time goes on although some do it very quickly and others over the course of many decades. WSCAL probably doesn't have any either. Does Southern Seminary have anyone now promoting the egalitarian view? I would be surprised since that is such an emphasis for Moore, Mohler, etc. Some if not all of the other SBC seminaries are probably fairly strong on this now too since the "takeover" was in part a reaction against these kinds of influences.



I know of preachers who send their young men to SBTS, because it's both Calvinistic and complementarian. If that what you were talking about, that is.


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## danmpem (Mar 12, 2008)

I found these:

26. If you’ve ever had more than three candidates for the AntiChrist at one time…
27. If you think Saddam Hussein’s name means 666 in more than three languages…
28. If you took Hal Lindsey’s advice twenty years ago not to make any long term plans and are now broke, uneducated and in a dead-end job…
29. If bar-codes make you nervous…
30. If you’ve only been a Christian for one year and your Pastor has preached through the book of Revelation more than two times…
31. If you make sure there’s at least one non-Christian pilot on every flight you take…
32. If your church has adopted the 60’s song “Up, Up and Away” as a hymn…
33. If you think the Ryrie Study Bible notes are part of the original autographs…
34. If you’ve already forgotten the last wrongly predicted date of the rapture…
35. If you already know the next predicted date for the rapture…
36. If you’re still suspicious about Gorbachev’s birthMARK…
37. If you believe that Grant Jeffrey, Tommy Ice, Dave Hunt or Hal Lindsey is a theologian…
38. If you know the location of the European Central Bank…
39. If you’ve ruined more than five records trying to find backward messages…
40. If you count trampoline aerobics as “Rapture Practice” in your morning devotions…
41. If you think Texe Marrs’ books belong in the theology section of your local Christian bookstore…
42. If you never stand on your head out of the fear that the rapture will send you the wrong direction…
43. If your baby’s stroller has a break-away sun bonnet…
44. If you always chew gum so your ears won’t pop at the rapture…
45. If you can name more dispensations than commandments…
46. If Clarence Larkin is your favorite artist…
47. If you know who Clarence Larkin is…
48. If your children’s favorite game is Pre-Trib-Hide-and-Seek, “Now you see me, now you don’t”…
49. If you think the four millennial positions are: Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, Post-Trib and Liberal…
50. If your favorite party game is “Pin the tail on the Beast”…
51. If your favorite CrackerJacks prize is a temporary tattoo of the Mark of the Beast…
52. If you think John Walvoord, CI Scofield and J N Darby are some of the Church Fathers…
53. If your favorite one-volume commentary on the Bible is on “The Bible Code”… (Jon B.)
54. If your favorite multi-volume commentary on this morning’s newspaper is the Bible…(Jane D.)


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## holyfool33 (Mar 12, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> You Might Be a Dispensationalist If . . .
> 1. you named your first child “Cyrus Ingersoll,” even though it was a girl.
> 2. when you pray, you turn and face towards Dallas.
> 3. you’re surprised and embarrassed by Jack Deere.
> ...



two an threteen


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## danmpem (Mar 12, 2008)

Ivanhoe said:


> Josiah said:
> 
> 
> > greenbaggins said:
> ...



Likewise. Although, I'm still researching the different eschatological packages to see which one is right for me!


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## Pilgrim (Mar 12, 2008)

55. You insisted the credit card company issue you a new card with a new number because yours had "666" in it.


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## greenbaggins (Mar 12, 2008)

Even out of order!


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## Reformed Covenanter (Mar 12, 2008)

> 48. If your children’s favorite game is Pre-Trib-Hide-and-Seek, “Now you see me, now you don’t”…


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## VictorBravo (Mar 12, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> 25. You keep looking for that flawless red heifer so the Temple can be rebuilt.



I never could figure this one out. I used to raise a lot of flawless Red Angus calves, half of them were heifers. Nobody ever seemed to think it was a big deal. I could have made a fortune!

They looked like this:


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## Grymir (Mar 12, 2008)

56. You voted for John Hagee to be head of the Jesuits!

and the all time favorite:

57. You had a "WARNING - in case of rapture, this vehicle will be unmanned" bumper sticker on your car!

(I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet... but,,, i still want one. so I can be culturally relevant of course.  )


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## DMcFadden (Mar 12, 2008)

> 28. If you took Hal Lindsey’s advice twenty years ago not to make any long term plans and are now broke, uneducated and in a dead-end job…



Dan, now THAT is funny! I can remember the time before Hal Lindsay was Hal Lindsay, when he was just a college worker at UCLA for Campus Crusade. His _"magnum opus" _came out in 1970 at the end of my high school experience. I always took it as ironic that Hal became "comfortable" through long-term investments off his book sales while anyone who took him literally ended up broke.


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## Scot (Mar 12, 2008)

I didn't read all of the posts so some of these might be repeats...

If you like to chew gum so your ears won't pop at the Rapture.

If you always leave the top down on your convertible - just in case.

If bar code scanners make you nervous.

If you have been a Christian for less than one year and your pastor has already preached through the Book of Revelation twelve times.

If your church has adapted into a Christian hymn the 1960s pop song"Up, Up and Away." 

If you think General Revelation is the commander in chief of the armies of Armageddon.

If you can name more dispensations than commandments.

If you've already forgotten the last wrongly predicted date for the rapture.

If you believe that there is an original Greek and Hebrew text of Scofield's notes.

If you believe that the term "Early Church Fathers" refers to C. I. Scofield and Lewis Sperry Chafer.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Mar 12, 2008)

Grymir said:


> and the all time favorite:
> 
> 57. You had a "WARNING - in case of rapture, this vehicle will be unmanned" bumper sticker on your car!
> 
> (I'm surprised nobody mentioned this yet... but,,, i still want one. so I can be culturally relevant of course.  )


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## turmeric (Mar 12, 2008)

If you need 7 different colors of highlighter to underline your Bible...


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## DMcFadden (Mar 13, 2008)

58. you have narrowed the candidates for Antichrist down to either John Gerstner or Don Kistler. (After reading "Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth").
59. you read Hodge's theology to find out why Zane Hodges disagrees with the Reformers.
60. you have all of Bullinger's books on your shelves, E.W. Bullinger that is.
61. you don't have an American flag in your office but do have a poster on the wall with an Israeli jet and the words: "America, don't worry. Israel is behind you."
62. you ask the Christian bookstore manager if it is still a Holy Bible even if it doesn't have the Ryrie notes.


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