# Jesus, the Bible & Homosexuality (Turretin & Hodge attacked)



## brandonadams (Jan 7, 2009)

A former camp counselor of mine has become a moderately popular emergent church instigator in the PCUSA. He wrote a chapter in the "Emergent Manifesto of Hope"

A few weeks ago he made a post on his blog The Bible & Homosexuality: Enough with the Bible Already ? pomomusings which stated:


> If it is the Bible that is causing us to delay accepting and celebrating LGBT persons as being fully human and fully created in the image of God, just as they are, then perhaps we need to say, “Enough with the Bible already…”



He is now proceeding to outline chapter by chapter a book by Jack Rogers on the topic. In his latest post he attacks Thornwell for his views on slavery and Charles Hodge for his biblical view of women. Yet this is the way it is attacked:



> Rogers argues these beliefs were possible because of Scottish Common Sense Philosophy and the theological system of Swiss scholastic Francis Turretin. It was the Scottish Common Sense Philosophy that was of most interest to me, particularly because it is so intricately tied to Princeton Seminary, my alma mater. I lived in Alexander Hall for my first two years at Princeton, which was named after Archibold Alexander, who was at Princeton from its founding. It was Alexander who established the curriculum at Princeton Seminary, and he recommended Scottish Common Sense Philosophy as the primary method of biblical interpretation.
> 
> Scottish Common Sense Philosophy says that people should accept what was common sense of all humankind - we know the reality of the world exactly as it is. Rogers quotes Charles Hodge, who asserted that “the Bible is to the theologian what nature is to the man of science. It is his storehouse of facts” (30). For Common Sense philosophy, the truth is obvious. This lends itself very well to a rationalistic and literalistic understanding of the Scriptures. Rogers writes:
> 
> “Common Sense philosophy and Turretin’s theology allowed seemingly good, intelligent, devout people to ignore the basic principles and lessons of Scripture and to brutalize other human beings by enslaving them. The combination of Common Sense and Turretin enabled people to use the Bible to claim divine justification for common cultural prejudices” (32).



I don't know enough about Common Sense or Hodge or Turretin to competently address these claims, but if anyone is interested... have at it!

Here is the latest post Jesus, the Bible & Homosexuality, by Jack Rogers: Chapter 2


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## Zenas (Jan 7, 2009)

His reason for saying "enough with the Bible" is erroneous, I suspect intentionally. No one says that homosexuals are not fully humans and not fully created in the image of God. The issue isn't whether or not they are humans and therefore accountable to God, it's that they are accountable to God yet deny that the sin they commit is sin. 

He's not even talking about the correct issue. He's seems to be diverting the argument into something unrelated and uncontested, essentially duking it out with a position he's made up on his own and declared himself the victor.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Jan 7, 2009)

The authority of the Bible and its propositional truth are quickly given up by the Emergent "conversation" in order to be culturally relevant and inclusive -- which are their touchstones.


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## Tripel (Jan 7, 2009)

I just read (quickly) through Adam's posts that you linked to, and his argument seems to rest largely on misinterpretation of the Bible. Because the Bible has been misinterpreted to promote evil, we should just put the Bible aside.

That's foolishness. The problem is not the Bible. The problem is our understanding of it. 
_
"And for those who are Christian and believe these things, these beliefs come from a very selective reading of a very small amount of texts from the Bible."_

And those that use the Bible to condone homosexuality are doing even higher selective reading from an even smaller amount of texts.


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## discipulo (Jan 7, 2009)

In the name of Tolerance, a god of this age, the Biblical Churches will be surely persecuted. 

North America has definitely much better Biblical and Historical society values to resist this demonic pressure.

But sadly in Europe it’s all over now, it's terrible!

This is from 4 years ago, not event recent anymore.

Swedish Pastor Sentenced to Month in Prison for Preaching Against Homosexuality

Reactions: Wow 1


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## PresbyDane (Jan 7, 2009)

Gomarus said:


> The authority of the Bible and its propositional truth are quickly given up by the Emergent "conversation" in order to be culturally relevant and inclusive -- which are their touchstones.



I


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## brandonadams (Jan 7, 2009)

Certainly his whole outlook is quite terrible. I made a few comments on his original post.

I was more interested in his latest post to defend his attacks on Turretin and Hodge as I don't think their views were accurately represented. It's clear that Scripture is not his authority, but he gets a lot of readers, and I don't want them lumping all of Reformed Systematic with a defense of Southern manstealing slavery. I'm working up a response now.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 7, 2009)

Since Dr. Robert Gagnon has already been mentioned on the board here is his article destroying Jack Rogers' book.

Read it here

-----Added 1/7/2009 at 02:44:27 EST-----

Here is a link to 4 more articles that provide a surgical dismemberment of Jack Rogers book from Dr. Gagnon.

Here is Part 1


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## Poimen (Jan 7, 2009)

Two problems with a defense of homosexuality from this perspective:

1) If the scriptures are that unclear about what they seem to, from a basic or quick reading of the text, be very clear about, then it gives every bigoted, narrow minded, hateful, fundamentalist the right to ignore the command to love their neighbour as themselves. 

2) It undermines the saving love and mercy of Christ, which is ironic since men such as the author always proclaim God's love to the virtual exclusion of His other attributes. Thus our Lord is either powerless or lacks the desire to save to the uttermost by not only atoning for our sins but also reforming our fallen nature (contrary to 1 Corinthians 6:11).


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## discipulo (Jan 7, 2009)

Walter Wink is another tragic example.

I have his books on principalities and powers, and I can't understand
how such a biblical scholar bluntly denies God's Word on homosexuality.

also by Robert A. J. Gagnon - A Response to Walter Wink

http://www.religion-online.org/showarticle.asp?title=2664


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 7, 2009)

> “Common Sense philosophy and Turretin’s theology allowed seemingly good, intelligent, devout people *to ignore the basic principles and lessons of Scripture* and to brutalize other human beings by enslaving them.


I love it when people are consistent. Riddle me this, Batman, what are these "basic principles and lessons of Scripture", and how do we know them?


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## yeutter (Jan 7, 2009)

If it was not so sad, I would almost find it amusing that some emergent Church type; who has probably not read Reid or Turretin or Hodge, can attack them for finding propositional truths in the Bible.
Prof. Gagnon has done a wonderful job of showing how intellectually dishonest the prohomosexual crowd is.
http://www.westernsem.edu/files/westernsem/gagnon_autm05_0.pdf


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