# Rev. 11:17, KJV versus modern translations



## SolaGratia (Mar 21, 2008)

The below extract was taken from KJV 1611 Yahoo Group Posts showing a difference from KJV and modern translations regarding Rev. 11:17.


Revelation 11:17
(KJV) Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and *hast reigned.*
(1611 KJV) Saying, Wee giue thee thankes, O Lord God Almightie, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
(1526 Tyndale) sayinge: we geve the thankes lorde God allmyghte: which arte and wast and arte to come for thou haste receaved thy great myght and hast raygned.
(1382 Wycliffe) and seiden, We don thankyngis to thee, Lord God almyyti, which art, and which were, and which art to comynge; which hast takun thi greet vertu, and hast regned.

(NIV) saying: "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and *have begun* to reign.
(NASV) saying, "We give You thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who are and who were, because You have taken Your great power and* have begun *to reign.
(AMP) Exclaiming, To You we give thanks, Lord God Omnipotent, [the One] Who is and [ever] was, for assuming the high sovereignty and the great power that are Yours and *for beginning *to reign.
(NLT) And they said, “We give thanks to you, Lord God, the Almighty, the one who is and who always was, for now you have assumed your great power and *have begun* to reign.
(ESV) saying, "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, for you have taken your great power and* begun to reign*.
(CEV) They said, "Lord God All-Powerful, you are and you were, and we thank you. You used your great power and *started ruling.*
(NCV) They said: "We give thanks to you, Lord God Almighty, who is and who was, because you have used your great power and *have begun to rule!*
(HCSB) saying: We thank You, Lord God, the Almighty, who is and who was,
because You have taken Your great power and* have begun *to reign.
(RSV) saying, "We give thanks to thee, Lord God Almighty, who art and who wast, that thou hast taken thy great power and *begun *to reign.
(NAB-Roman Catholic) and said: "We give thanks to you, Lord God almighty, who are and who were. For you have assumed your great power and *have established* your reign.
(NWT) saying: “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and *begun ruling *as king.

Textus Receptus
legonteV eucaristoumen soi kurie o qeoV o pantokratwr o wn kai o hn kai o ercomenoV oti eilhjaV thn dunamin sou thn megalhn kai ebasileusaV

Hort-Westcott
legonteV eucaristoumen soi kurie o qeoV o pantokratwr o wn kai o hn oti eilhjaV thn dunamin sou thn megalhn kai ebasileusaV

Corrupted Manuscripts
None

Affected Teaching
If you will notice the portion I have underlined in the King James verses “and hast reigned.” If you will notice in the modern versions it states ”begun to reign.” This is a serious heresy since God’s reign is from everlasting to everlasting and there was never a time that God did not reign in this universe. This intentional addition by the translators fits in with their beliefs stemming from Micah 5:2:

(NIV) "But you, Bethlehem Ephrathah, though you are small among the clans of Judah, out of you will come for me one who will be ruler over Israel, whose origins are from of old, from ancient times."


(ESV) But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah, who are too little to be among the clans of Judah, from you shall come forth for me one who is to be ruler in Israel, whose coming forth is from of old, from ancient days.

(CEV) Bethlehem Ephrath, you are one of the smallest towns in the nation of Judah. But the LORD will choose one of your people to rule the nation-- someone whose family goes back to ancient times.

If you will notice that the NIV, ESV, and the CEV state that Christ had a beginning but the KJB teaches us that Christ was from eternity. In Revelation 11:17, the words “hast reigned” are one word in the Greek which is in the Aorist Tense. The Aorist tense states a past action with no reference to time or duration of the action which means God reigned in the past and continues to reign today and into eternity. If the modern version translators knew Greek, they would know this but instead they used a future tense term “begun to reign.” I say future tense because when would God have begun to reign? At what point in time would that have occurred? You see the modern versions once again change a very cardinal doctrine. If God was not reigning in the past, then what was He doing? We run into all kinds of problems when we use a modern version. The King James treats God’s reign as a past action which continues because none of us know nor can fathom eternity and that is why the King James Bible is superior to the modern versions.


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## CalvinisticCumberland (Mar 21, 2008)

1599 Geneva

"and hast obtained thy kingdom."

Seems less like the AV and more like the modern translations. 






SolaGratia said:


> The below extract was taken from KJV 1611 Yahoo Group Posts showing a difference from KJV and modern translations regarding Rev. 11:17.
> 
> 
> Revelation 11:17
> ...


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## Nebrexan (Mar 21, 2008)

I don't have a good answer but in researching it, I came across the NET Bible translation note for that verse (that version translates it as "begun to reign"):


> The aorist verb ἐβασίλευσας (ebasileusa) has been translated ingressively.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 21, 2008)

NKJV 

We give You thanks, O Lord God Almighty,
The One who is and who was and who is to come,
Because You have taken Your great power and reigned.


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## SolaGratia (Mar 21, 2008)

Andrew and Brothers,

I emailed the author, of the above extract, regarding the 1599 Geneva Bible translation of Rev. 11:17, and this was the respond:


The reason that the GB translators used that term was because the word 
behind "reign" in Revelation 11:17 in the AV is "basileuo" which means to reign or have authority. The word the GB translators used is the only cognate of that word, it is the word "basileia" which means"kingdom, kingship, or reign." This shows they used the right manuscripts in translation. 
Ken

-Blessings


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## k.seymore (Mar 21, 2008)

SolaGratia said:


> Affected Teaching
> If you will notice the portion I have underlined in the King James verses “and hast reigned.” If you will notice in the modern versions it states ”begun to reign.” This is a serious heresy since God’s reign is from everlasting to everlasting and there was never a time that God did not reign in this universe. This intentional addition by the translators fits in with their beliefs stemming from Micah 5:2:



I think you may just be misunderstanding the language the KJV is using. If you pull that verse out of context in the KJV as you did, sure, new translations might look a little confusing in comparison. But read it in context. Each of those translations has the same idea. God has taken kingdoms from the world and his reign has come in time. On earth as it is in heaven. Here is what the KJV is actually saying:

"The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever... thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned... the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come..."

That's not heresy in any of the translations. That is the fulfillment of the Lord's Prayer. The kingdom has come. The tent of David fell in the past and the dominion was overtaken, but now the line of David has returned, and God is reigning through him. And we find the same thing if we look at Micah 5:2 in context. It speaks in the passage before of the tent of David falling. The line of David will cease reigning and the kingdom will end but Micah writes that this previous dominion will return, and David's line will again reign:

"the former dominion shall come,
kingship for the daughter of Jerusalem.
Now why do you cry aloud?
Is there no king in you?
Has your counselor perished,
that pain seized you like a woman in labor?" (Mic 4:8-9)

Then comes the passage you brought up:

"But you, O Bethlehem Ephrathah,
who are too little to be among the clans of Judah,
from you shall come forth for me
one who is to be ruler in Israel,
whose origin is from of old,
from ancient days.
Therefore he shall give them up until the time" (Mic 5:2-3)

So I take that, in context, to mean that the former dominion will come again and the former rule of David's line will again come. In which case it is saying, although there is a new rule over Israel now, the Babylonian/Assyrian line of kings or whatever, a king will arise whose origin is not new (meaning the ancient line of David that fell). That's also the idea of saying the king will come from Bethlehem. He won't come from a great city like Babylon, or in Jesus' day Rome, he will come from the ancient line of David, from the small insignificant city of David. I don't think the passage is saying that the line of David originates from eternity. I think it means the king will originate from the ancient line of David... and I think the NT backs this up as it is pointed out numerous times that Christ fulfills prophesies the foretell one coming from the ancient line of David. That said, I'm not trying to knock the KJV here which does seem to be understanding it not as the line of David but as the Son from eternity. Perhaps I am misunderstanding the passage... but to me newer translations make more sense with the context in my opinion.


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