# question for the pastors of the board



## charliejunfan (Feb 28, 2009)

I was wondering how many of you who are pastors need second jobs to support your families?

The reason I am asking is because I desire the office, so I need to consider these things for my eventual schooling. Thank you


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## Prufrock (Feb 28, 2009)

Hey Charlie, 

While you're waiting for all the pastors to respond, you might read this thread:

Bi-vocational pastors on the PB


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## Curt (Feb 28, 2009)

I have always pastored small congregations and whether I had another job to support my family has varied. At the moment, I am fully supported by my congregation. Of course, the financial situation being what it is, that may change.

I have held jobs such as college teaching, selling furniture, scooping ice cream and being a political journalist.

I think the preference is to be able to devote full-time to the ministry, but one does what one needs to do.


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## Poimen (Feb 28, 2009)

I have been a pastor for about 5 years and have never had to work outside of the ministry during that time. Usually Reformed churches look at the call as a full time 'work' with full time compensation. 

Having said that if the day came when our congregation could no longer support me I would certainly be willing to find a part time job to ease the financial strain.


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## DMcFadden (Feb 28, 2009)

22 of my 34 years in ministry were spent in the pastoral role. I always was fully supported by the church. However, Baptists (unlike most Reformed) often believe in the motto: "Lord, you keep him humble and we'll keep him poor." 5 kids and initially how salaries left me with a lot of debt that restricted the kind of ministry I could afford to accept. My advice: bi-vocational or fully supported -- stay AWAY from debt.


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## LawrenceU (Feb 28, 2009)

That is wise counsel, Dennis. 

I actually have two full time jobs and two part time jobs:
Pastor: Full time
Operations Manager for a waste transportation company: Full time
Apiarist (semi commercial beekeeper): Part time
Pizza Delivery Driver: Part time.

As the Lord has been blessing the financial resources of our congregation I may be able to drop the Pizza gig in a couple of weeks. I hope so.


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## Guido's Brother (Feb 28, 2009)

I've been in the ministry for nearly nine years, and the churches I've served have adequately taken care of my family's needs. Like Daniel, I serve in a church federation where the idea of a bi-vocational pastor is unheard of.


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## KMK (Feb 28, 2009)

I have been bivo for 3 years now. It is NOT ideal. However, it IS reality.

There may be many reasons to go bivo at one time or another. I believe Rev Ruddell is not accepting a salary until his church has enough cash to acquire their own building.


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## fredtgreco (Feb 28, 2009)

I am fully and generously supported by my congregation. In turn, I give them my all, working roughly 70+ hours per week.


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## KMK (Feb 28, 2009)

I would like to add that my church is very generous as well. Generosity is not measured by the gross amount but by the percentage. (See the widow with two mites) Percentage-wise we have more tithers than most churches. But it is such a small church that even that is not enough to pay a pastor a full-time wage. You really need at least 11 tithing families in order to pay a decent full-time wage.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Feb 28, 2009)

KMK said:


> I have been bivo for 3 years now. It is NOT ideal. However, it IS reality.
> 
> There may be many reasons to go bivo at one time or another. I believe Rev Ruddell is not accepting a salary until his church has enough cash to acquire their own building.



That is true, as Pastor Klein has noted. It is indeed not an optimal situation, and I would not do it unless there was good reason, plus, I have 2 committed elders who share the load, visiting the families in their homes. I will be glad to go "full time" in ministry after we've acquired a building. We're building for the next generation, and I'd rather not see them saddled with either a mortgage or a lease.


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## DonP (Feb 28, 2009)

Guido's Brother said:


> I've been in the ministry for nearly nine years, and the churches I've served have adequately taken care of my family's needs. Like Daniel, I serve in a church federation where the idea of a bi-vocational pastor is unheard of.



yes those Dutch really value their dominee don't they?

I always had looked at the ministry as taking a vow of poverty to serve the church. The Free Reformed church I was in for a few years really changed my mind on this and helped me to see that a professional degreed minister who spent years studying and preparing, is to be at least as valuable to our souls as the Dr is who care only for our physical bodies. I really respect this view and think the rest of the church could take a lesson from the Dutch on this. 

By the way if you are open to it I would love to hear why the FRC left the CR seminary and went with Heritage Seminary. Careful now, I think Beeke is one of the best preachers I have heard. Of course I haven't heard many of the CR. I had asked long ago why you hadn't merged, some felt you were more kuyperian than them; or something.


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## refbaptdude (Feb 28, 2009)

The location of the church has a big impact on this. In some parts of the county housing and the cost of living can be very expensive.


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## Pergamum (Feb 28, 2009)

KMK said:


> I have been bivo for 3 years now. It is NOT ideal. However, it IS reality.
> 
> There may be many reasons to go bivo at one time or another. I believe Rev Ruddell is not accepting a salary until his church has enough cash to acquire their own building.



Does the wage for one live person or money for a dead building for the many take priority? 

I don't know....just asking.


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## Guido's Brother (Mar 1, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> By the way if you are open to it I would love to hear why the FRC left the CR seminary and went with Heritage Seminary. Careful now, I think Beeke is one of the best preachers I have heard. Of course I haven't heard many of the CR. I had asked long ago why you hadn't merged, some felt you were more kuyperian than them; or something.



I was in Hamilton for the last year that the FRC sent their men to our seminary. The last FRC student to study in Hamilton is now just down the road in Abbotsford. He did his first year in Hamilton and then two or three more at Puritan in GR.

As I remember it, the official reason was that the FRC wanted seminary training more in line with their distinctives (discriminating, experiential preaching) and they also wanted more involvement with the seminary. There was nothing we could do about the first point, but our seminary was prepared to offer some concessions on the second. All of this goes hand in hand with a cooling off in the relations between the FRC and CanRC in the late 90s and early part of this decade. But who knows, maybe things will improve now that we're both in NAPARC.


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## KMK (Mar 1, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > I have been bivo for 3 years now. It is NOT ideal. However, it IS reality.
> ...



This is, of course, off topic but there have been some threads about the importance of a building. Unfortunately they have all been short threads. It would be interesting to see a discussion on your question.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Mar 1, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > I have been bivo for 3 years now. It is NOT ideal. However, it IS reality.
> ...



I believe it will be easier, after my demise, for the Church to procure a Pastor if they are in a more settled position. Currently, I have the strength to pursue both callings, and as I said before, I have two elders to aid in the pastoral oversight. I don't recommend it to everyone, and each must make his own determination. I have the blessing of my presbytery on this pursuit, and I was originally sent to this area to plant a Church. 

I too would like to explore the utility of a Church building in another thread. However, duty calls for tonight. Blessings, brethren.


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