# Sin For Not Homeschooling?



## sitdownicantsee

Hi all - I have a dilemma approaching in one year and need the help from my reformed friends; I have a four year old boy, twin 2.5 year old girls. I am having a lot anxiety over sending my kids to public schools, my wife is unwilling to homeschool - her opinion differs of mine, but she holds to the idea that our children need to be taught by those trained in teaching. Private Christian schooling around here is tremendously expensive, which would be $7,000+ per year, per child - so that option is out. The next option would be to move one town over and be in the more rural public school system our church resides in. Where our kids would be under the eyes of members and other children of the church. I am fearful of our kids being instructed most of their young lives by anti-Christian/atheistic agendas (not of our churchmembers, of course), some 14,000 hours by grade 12. I fear that I am committing a deliberate sin by not homeschooling our kids and sending them to public school-- what sayeth the Scriptures concerning this? What sayest the brethren? Opinions and guidance is most appreciated, friends..


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## earl40

You are in a difficult situation. If your wife does not want to homeschool your kids I wonder if she would be willing to move to the rural part of town. If she would do this willing and with a glad heart this may your only option to ease your conscience. I have run into a few "problems" with my wife when we disagree on similar issues. To put it mildly I am the one that usually "gives in" knowing that I did my part in giving a sound reason why I disagree with her. To set you at ease love her, and realize that this love covers a multitude of sin...both ways if I may add as my wife would attest by her sticking with me.


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## KevinInReno

I would say this... it is not sinful to send your kids to public school. My wife and I personally home school, but it's not to entirely shelter my children from the world, etc. I'm not running a monastery in my home. I think far too often in certain circles it's made out to be a litmus test.... 

However, a large reason why we decided to do it is... we probably will never go to Africa on a mission project. We might never visit a remote tribe in the amazon rain forest and share the Gospel... but the Lord has been gracious enough to deliver 3 children into our home and I can share the Gospel with them daily. It's the most important evangelism my wife and I will likely ever undertake in our lifetime and we felt we could better manage that awesome responsibility by homeschooling.


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## Scot

Ask your wife if she would be willing to listen to this message with you.

The Crisis of Education CR1001 - SermonAudio.com


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## Jack K

There's usually some sin in most big choices we make. But it is NOT automatically a sin to have someone else help educate your kids.

How you approach it, your reasons for making the decision you arrive at, your priorities in spending money and time and other family resources, your involvement in whatever education you choose, your general diligence in protecting and training your kids and loving your wife... these are things to keep examining for sin. Consider all the factors and the temptations associated with each of these. Then order your life, including educational decisions, according to what seems most pleasing to God. It isn't a sin/no-sin deal based simply on where your kids go to school, and it won't be the same for everyone. Your situation and your temptations differ from those of other believers.

My kids are in a Christian school but my wife and I have at times considered both home schooling and public school for one or both of them, taking into account all the factors I mentioned plus the particular schools, teachers, principals and level of parental involvement possible. They've also attended public school for a half a day each week to use the gym, computer lab, library, etc. All that is to say that I'm open to the idea that some kids in some Christian families can best thrive in some public schools. It's your decision to make and it's not a simple one. Consider all the factors, with much prayer and consultation with godly friends, and don't let anyone (including yourself) lay a guilt trip on you for your eventual choice.

And relax. I know that's hard when your kids are young and you're trying so hard to do the right thing. But you will make mistakes along the way and most of those can be rectified if you're paying attention. If you try one sort of schooling and it starts going badly, it's no shame to re-evaluate and make some changes.


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

At the end of the day, the only possibility of sin is through failure to be directly involved in their education through teaching, clarification, and correction. Whether you decide to send your children off to private school, public school, or home school, you are still responsible for their education at the end of the day and should take all steps necessary to be as active as possible in what your children are learning and are being taught.


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## sastark

Is your church willing or able to help offset the cost of private school? 

(off topic, but: I think churches are missing a great opportunity to serve families when they are unwilling to help with this expense. But, that's just my opinion.)


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## KevinInReno

sastark said:


> Is your church willing or able to help offset the cost of private school?
> 
> (off topic, but: I think churches are missing a great opportunity to serve families when they are unwilling to help with this expense. But, that's just my opinion.)



Also not just your home church, but also consider sitting down and meeting with the school itself. I know my brother and his wife did something like this. They could only afford 25% of the tuition costs of the school. They decided to ask the school if that would be enough, and the school gave their daughter a scholarship for the remaining amount.


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## TexanRose

Well, whatever you choose for the first year, you are not locked in to that decision for the next twelve years. Your wife might change her mind at some point, or your financial situation might change.

Have you and your wife considered video school? That way, the children are being taught by certified teachers, but in your home. It would be more expensive than other homeschooling options, but less expensive than a private school.


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## kvanlaan

> Have you and your wife considered video school? That way, the children are being taught by certified teachers, but in your home. It would be more expensive than other homeschooling options, but less expensive than a private school.



This is a good point. I would duck and dodge every way I could before I sent my children into the arms of public education, and what Sharon wrote above is a great option #3.


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## Miss Marple

I will echo Sharon's comment, there are satellite schools, with streaming instruction, work graded by certified teachers, etc. I know Bob Jones does it, and if you search "satellite schools" or "distance Christian learning" or some such phrases, I think you will find more.

Also may I say it is a sin for your wife to refuse? It's a hard saying. But you are not asking her to sin. So she should do it, unless there are very serious reasons to keep her from it like extreme health hardships or illiteracy or something.

I don't suggest you should drop an edict like "Do it know and don't fuss about it!" In other words, I think you should be supportive and take it easy and find a tutor helper or a satellite system or teach the math when you get home or whatever. But, I think she should be confronted about her refusal. And I am a wife so it's ok for me to say!


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## tlharvey7

my kids and I daily discuss what they are picking up in public school. both from teachers and students.
they are being subjected and bombarded by every type of wordview and belief system under the sun.
I LOVE IT!!!!
my daughter even came home about 2 weeks ago and told me that her teacher during a world religions class said that christians believe they go to heaven by being good and folllowing the bible. she was all over that! i have never been so proud as when she told that teacher and her class about grace and mercy.
i would love to homeschool my kids, and as a single dad i wish i could... but at the same time, they are getting a crash course in apologetics and will not be shell shocked when they go into the real world


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## Bethel

Miss Marple said:


> Also may I say it is a sin for your wife to refuse? It's a hard saying. But you are not asking her to sin. So she should do it, unless there are very serious reasons to keep her from it like extreme health hardships or illiteracy or something.



This is exactly what I was thinking. Since it's not a sin issue and you (as the husband) feel strongly led in this area, then as a submissive wife, she should follow your guidance. It's not that she can't have an opinion about it, but when a married couple disagrees, someone needs to have the final say; and the Bible tells us that person is the husband. The role of a submissive Christian wife has been negatively affected by our culture, and the Church needs to help bring that role back into the marriage.

Homeschooling is very rewarding, but also very challenging at times. There are some days that I want to quit (but generally, those days happened earlier in our homeschool journey). I remember looking at bus routes on the computer one day for an unnamed boy in our family. My husband just happened to call right at that moment. When he found out what I was doing, he took off work, came home, and handled the situation. Because of his continual support and prayers, overall, our homeschool has been very successful and blessed.


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## moral necessity

As others have said, there are other options out there. There are online courses, home-school coops, and private christian schools that often have tuition assistance. If public school is the only option, you will have to counter the school influence with an equal amount or more of home correction and re-alignment. Also, be wary, for if they diagnose your child as ADHD, you will need to comply with medication or else you run the risk of child services bringing you up on charges of abuse/neglect. This does happen. 

Personally, I would almost rather send my wife to work to bring home the money, and do the homeschooling myself, if she refused to do it. If you're worried about whether or not you are giving them a quality education, you can take a state test at the end of the year, by which you can measure their achievement level. You can try it for one year and see if you are successful . Later, when you run into a course that is too challenging, you can sub-contract that out to a private tutor or an online course. I just did this for a family. Their daughter was taking higher math, and the mom bought the homeschool material for it. I just tutored her along the way as she needed help. She was accepted to, and will be attending, Roanoke University next year.

Here is a good read to consider: http://www.amazon.com/Harsh-Truth-A...1-1&keywords=harsh+truth+about+public+schools 

Blessings and prayers!


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## TexanRose

moral necessity said:


> ...Also, be wary, for if they diagnose your child as ADHD, you will need to comply with medication or else you run the risk of child services bringing you up on charges of abuse/neglect. This does happen...



Yikes! I hadn't heard this before. I have a son who would probably be labeled ADHD in a school setting, so this is good to know.


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## jwithnell

If I were in your shoes, I'd check your state's mandatory starting age for schooling, and minimum home school requirements. Use this information to keep them at home for the first few years. (If it's any reassurance, Finland has some of the top test scores in the world and does not start formal education before age 8 and prefers parents not to have started on their own.)

Those first few years are so critical spiritually, developmentally, and morally. For education, they are also the most flexible. My husband and I think that no matter what schooling option you choose, a child should ideally _not_ be out of the home before the age of 7, and if entering the public schools, should already be reading and have some ability to find and evaluate information for himself (though obviously at an immature level).

Don't worry much about lessons at this early age aside from letter formation and basic phonics (after getting the letters=sounds idea started and teaching the vowels, there are plenty of games out there that do a good job). Our six-year-old has had no "formal" education but is reading well for his age, has an extensive vocabulary, and is well ahead of what's expected for numeracy. I don't think he's necessarily exceptional, but he has been "reading" the morning paper with me since he was an infant, hears lots of reading, and has unlimited access to books, magazines etc. When I hear something is lacking, I make a point of drawing it out of everyday situations. 

And as Sharon emphasized, you are not locked into your beginning plans. (Although, I should mention that some states make it harder than others to withdraw students from public schools to teach at home.)


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## a mere housewife

One of the huge weaknesses with homeschool is that often it is a (tremendous!) burden almost entirely shouldered by the mom -- who is also trying to run the house and keep up with many other responsibilities and aspects of nurturing and caring for her family. And it is true that sometimes we simply aren't qualified (no reflection on general intelligence) for specialised areas of teaching. If your wife does not feel up for that, it's perfectly understandable. Sharon mentioned video school and that is certainly less expensive than a Christian school -- I was homeschooled largely on A Beka's video school program. I have known children do both very poorly and very well in homeschool, Christian school, and public school -- academically and spiritually. You could certainly confront your wife in this area -- it's true that we ladies ought to submit. But even though technically you'd be in your rights, I'm not sure that would be a dwelling with her according to knowledge, or the best way to help her over the hurdles she is facing? If your wife isn't personally convicted about homeschooling, she will probably not be able to cope with the demandingness of it very well.


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## moral necessity

TexanRose said:


> moral necessity said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...Also, be wary, for if they diagnose your child as ADHD, you will need to comply with medication or else you run the risk of child services bringing you up on charges of abuse/neglect. This does happen...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yikes! I hadn't heard this before. I have a son who would probably be labeled ADHD in a school setting, so this is good to know.
Click to expand...


The real threat is mainly to the parents who want special ed services, have their child tested, and then refuse medication if they diagnose it to be necessary. Just avoid the special accomodations department altogether if you're going the public school route and want to avoid the issue entirely. 

Australia appears to be getting worse, however: Children with ADHD are "Forced" to Take ADHD Drugs

Blessings!


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## Bethel

a mere housewife said:


> One of the huge weaknesses with homeschool is that often it is a (tremendous!) burden almost entirely shouldered by the mom -- who is also trying to run the house and keep up with many other responsibilities and aspects of nurturing and caring for her family. And it is true that sometimes we simply aren't qualified (no reflection on general intelligence) for specialised areas of teaching. If your wife does not feel up for that, it's perfectly understandable. Sharon mentioned video school and that is certainly less expensive than a Christian school -- I was homeschooled largely on A Beka's video school program. I have known children do both very poorly and very well in homeschool, Christian school, and public school -- academically and spiritually. You could certainly confront your wife in this area -- it's true that we ladies ought to submit. But even though technically you'd be in your rights, I'm not sure that would be a dwelling with her according to knowledge, or the best way to help her over the hurdles she is facing? If your wife isn't personally convicted about homeschooling, she will probably not be able to cope with the demandingness of it very well.



Dear Heidi,

I'm not singling you out, but I'm just trying to address the widespread acceptance of your statement in both Christian and secular circles.

I think that in our feminist society, it's very common to fall back on the wife's perceived needs of personal conviction and/or the ability to cope. However, our sovereign God has put us together as man and wife with strengths and weaknesses to build each other up. If Brian has the Holy Spirit leading him to homeschool, and his wife refuses (regardless of the excuse), then she is causing him to sin (James 4:17).

I don't feel adequate to homeschool which is a very good thing. Otherwise, I would mess a lot of things up with my pride. I pray daily for wisdom and guidance. I study things ahead of time. The Holy Spirit and my husband help in areas that I'm weak. As mentioned, there are innumerable on-line programs.

In areas that do not involve sin, after honest discussion and evaluation, wives (myself included) should joyfully follow their husbands' leading. This is an unpopular concept even in the Church today, but it's scriptural. Paul appeals to the creation order many times in his epistles; therefore, it's important that those of us who uphold the infallibility and inerrancy of the Bible to obey its commands even when we don't like it.

I also want to add that I would feel this same way if the husband felt the Holy Spirit's leading to send his children to public school. The means is not the issue, the obedience is.


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## arapahoepark

Here's my two cents, sorry as I have not read all the posts if I am being redundant or off topic now.

I went to public school and the schools I attended were top notch. Doesn't proverbs say train up your kid the correct way and he won't depart? It's a principle rather than law of nature but, it seems to work. I questioned every thing (for the most part) that I have learned. Don't these liberal/atheistic teachers tell kids do that? Of course! But instead I questioned their teachings in light of what I knew about the Bible and favored the Bible every time.
No matter what you choose teach your kids to that their are those out their who want them to question their faith, instead, tell them to turn it around and question their teachers. They'll find answers from godly men and women on the journey.
If you decide to homeschool, then what about college? Having them go to a Christian college won't guarantee anything in light of some of them trying to fit in with mainstream academia who will teach positions on the Bible that directly come from a presupposed atheistic world view. The above advice worked for me. I just graduated from a community college and I had some liberal professors with an rabidly atheistic world view and I can honestly say I have probably come out stronger and more conservative than I was before, as oppose to some I have heard come out more liberal because they savored their professor's words like the gospel. They didn't have the right authority to look to but, a fallible human being.

VERITAS VULNERE VIRET or truth under attack in strengthened.

So that's my two cents, hope I didn't come off as offensive or anything.


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## a mere housewife

Of course, dear Bethel. I agree entirely and I honor you for saying that. 

It is just that I think the other person's responsibilities are rarely helpful to focus on in a conflict of any sort. If Mrs. ____ had come to us for counsel, we would advise her to submit to her husband (I hope!). But there is a responsibility on the other side to dwell with her according to knowledge, to think about leading her gently, understanding her fears and her point of view, shouldering through the rough parts of the way, accommodating to her needs to help her wherever possible -- making it easy and desirable for her to follow as much as may be, and not just by corralling and jerking a subordinate along through something that is tremendously difficult (I have done this with a special needs foster child: it destroyed what little health I had at the time, and for many months afterwards; and I had a lot of support from my kind husband. Our former foster child can now read and add -- which he couldn't do before, at age 11: it was worth it, of course. But this *is* an incredible 'extra' thing to ask of a woman, and I think it might only make things more difficult to approach it by confrontation?)

I appreciate your words also, in that I too believe it is easy to get convictions about homeschooling or other kinds of schooling or many issues out of proportion with other convictions. It is certainly not a sin not to homeschool. Nowhere in the list of things that are the obligations of a wife is her responsibility laid down in scripture to teach the children academically. I don't think the mother our Lord 'homeschooled' him . It is though a sin for us women to be unsubmissive to our head -- and it is a sin not to tenderly lead a wife and lay down one's life for her, as Christ cared for the church.


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## littlepeople

I went to public school, and I think I'm a pretty sharp apologist because of it. Daniel studied in the Babylonian court, and I don't think this was sin for him. So deliberate sin? No


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## Alan D. Strange

I've not read every word here, brothers and sisters, but I want to support Heidi's points.

My wife and I have both Christian-schooled and home-schooled. The latter is a good deal of responsibility: a great blessing in many ways, but no small undertaking.

I do not think that this is simply a matter of submission, _simpliciter_. Here's why: the husband asking his reluctant wife to do this is asking her to do something that is not part of her ordinary biblical duties with respect to her children. Neither parent is tasked with teaching their children the academic subjects that society currently deems necessary. Parents biblically are to teach the fear of God, courteous and kind behavior, basic life skills, and whatever else they may be gifted to do. Many folk are not gifted to teach math, language, music, etc., all of which are valuable and make up an education. A parent is under obligation to train in the nurture and admonition of the Lord but not in the scholastic disciplines and it is perfectly proper for them to want to engage others to do this for them.

Given my own training, I took quite an active role in my children's education (some part of language, music, theology, science, literature, history, and philosophy). That has nothing to do with anyone else. I did not teach them technical automotive or home-building skills, lacking those myself. But we can get them for those desirous of such. 

I am quite reluctant for folk to denominate as sin that which is not clearly such. It's easy for Dad to say "let's do this" and expect Mom to do it and it all falls on her. I think rather than people here simply declaring something arguable to be sin, it is better to take this matter to your local pastor and elders and see what they have to say. Mom and Dad both must do their job, but I don't see where the Bible defines that as teaching our children their academic subjects.

Peace,
Alan


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## Miss Marple

It is so important not to label as "sin" that which Scripture does not call "sin."

With that said, we are told to raise up our children in the way they should go.

If we can keep that commandment while sending them to our local public school, then so be it. But that is what each parent, particularly each Father, has to consider. I live in San Francisco, and the only way I could send my children to our local public school would be if the government made it illegal not to do so. It is that bad. I won't go into details.

Maybe in other school districts it is better. 

As a side note, I have never liked using Daniel as an example of why it is ok to send children to any sort of spiritual enemy for education. They were in captivity and were slaves. No parent made the decision to send Daniel and his friends to Babylon for school.


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## Elizabeth

I don't think the OP was concerned with _academics_ so much as _environment_, in sending his young children to gov't schools. I think he has serious concerns about the effect gov't schools might have _upon_ bringing his kids up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 

And I think his concerns are justified, esp when his children are very young. I can honestly see how he may feel that sending his children into the maw of gov't schools IS sin. If we could send our kids to gov't schools for simple academics(2+2=4, CAT spells cat, sprouting seeds, etc), we'd not be having the dilemmas in our families.

But you get the whole ball of wax(academics, culture, philosophy) with the gov't schools. And frankly, a lot of the academics are very poorly taught.


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## JStone

sitdownicantsee said:


> Hi all - I have a dilemma approaching in one year and need the help from my reformed friends; I have a four year old boy, twin 2.5 year old girls. I am having a lot anxiety over sending my kids to public schools, my wife is unwilling to homeschool - her opinion differs of mine, but she holds to the idea that our children need to be taught by those trained in teaching. Private Christian schooling around here is tremendously expensive, which would be $7,000+ per year, per child - so that option is out. The next option would be to move one town over and be in the more rural public school system our church resides in. Where our kids would be under the eyes of members and other children of the church. I am fearful of our kids being instructed most of their young lives by anti-Christian/atheistic agendas (not of our churchmembers, of course), some 14,000 hours by grade 12. I fear that I am committing a deliberate sin by not homeschooling our kids and sending them to public school-- what sayeth the Scriptures concerning this? What sayest the brethren? Opinions and guidance is most appreciated, friends..



If sending your children to public school violates your conscience based on your understanding of Scripture, then it is a sin to send them there.

Please note what I am NOT saying. I am not saying sending kids to public school is a sin universally. I am saying it is a sin to those who do so in violation of their conscience. Just like drinking, eating, etc., for whatsoever is not done from faith is sin.

Just something to keep in mind.

Blessings,
Justin


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## a mere housewife

Thank you, Dr. Strange. I always appreciate your posts; and you are able to speak so much more wisely and to the point.

I ought to clarify Brian, that I was not intending to cast any poor light on you by pointing to what I can't help but think would be a more helpful course in this circumstance than treating this like a sin issue in a wife, and hope I did not come across as doing so.

One thing to consider in pointing people to the responsibilities of others in a situation like this, which does involve some complex considerations, is that we can wind up very publicly criticising a person whom we have not met, and of whose circumstances we know only a fractional amount.


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## jwithnell

I checked the HSLDA website for NC; your children must be in school:


> “Between the ages of seven and 16 years.” General Statutes of
> North Carolina §115C-378.


 So you don't have to make an immediate decision. Whatever you end up doing, may I encourage you to consider keeping your children home during those tender years of 4-6?


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## Alan D. Strange

Good interchanges here, brothers and sisters.

It should be noted that I believe thoroughly in Christian education. My wife and I never considered public school as an option. I agree, Miss Marple, that the Daniel illustration is infelicitous. He was put there by a reluctant king whose subjects tricked him. We are not to put our children in lions' dens. If someone else puts them there that's another thing. I don't intend to put them there.

If you did send them to public high or even middle school, I do not think that children should go to a public elementary school unless there's no other option. That is such a crucial time and we want our five and six and seven and eight year olds taught the truth as it is in Christ. We want them all taught that, I trust, but at that age it's so important as they are developing discernment skills. 

Peace,
Alan


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## lynnie

There is another option- tutors!!!! I have been delighted with tutors. I have to home school due to my daughter's issues (we can afford Christian school) and it has worked out great.

I don't mean the ones in the yellowpages asking 80-90 bucks an hour to get your kid ready for the SAT. I mean what I have for example. A Christian mom with 4 kids who used to be a 5th grade teacher and does a 2.5 hour math class weekly and assigns homework for the week (asks 20 an hour). A smart girl in seminary who did English and geography and some science...also 20 an hour and she did class for 1 or 1.5 hours and had a set of homework papers each week labeled for each of the other four days. I have a college student doing AAA drivers ed this summer for me, 15 an hour. A deaf lady doing sign language twice a month-same thing, gives assignments. I know people who got latin tutors to their house, spanish, chemistry, all sorts of things, often for several kids. Many people are happy to pick up a little bit of extra money tutoring. 

I would say you will end up paying at least half of local Christian school tuition. But if your wife will do say English and social studies herself and farm out science, math, language, and piano lessons, homeschooling loses its overwhelming feeling, and college students one on one often make better teachers than certified ones in a class of 25. We have found the one on one to be enormously helpful with learning. Please, look into the tutoring option and talk to your wife about the possibility.


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## Shawn Mathis

"I think rather than people here simply declaring something arguable to be sin, it is better to take this matter to your local pastor and elders and see what they have to say."

Counseling is local. We can give much good advice (note especially Prof. Strange's two posts) but you need the help of your local church my brother.

peace,


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## he beholds

A quick google search showed me that in NC compulsory attendance doesn't begin until the school year where children are seven years old. If I were you, I'd ask my wife to keep the kids home, without the pressure of any academic expectations, until the law says that they _have_ to go to school. (I'd check to make sure that is true and figure out by what month a kid has to be seven!)
You could easily teach the required academics of early elementary in the evenings when you are home from work if you have an hour to spare a night. Your wife would only be expected to do the normal mommy surviving, which is an already tough job! You could tell her that you can't stomach sending your babes into the wasteland quite yet, so you will be responsible for their education if she just handles their normal daily life. (This could work even longer than early el ed, but at least here you have no legal requirements!) 
You could introduce your wife to literature by experts like the Bluedorns, The Things to Do Before Age Ten, that emphasize how little academics matter in the early years. You can start out with the plan that you will keep the kids home until they are seven where lawfully there is no required learning. Thus, anything you or your wife manage to teach your children will be--lawfully--bonuses. 
I think even watching videos all day would be better for a five year old than sitting behind a desk, so the pressure can be very minimal!! (Neither option would be ideal--a day full of TV or a day full of school--but if I had to pick one, I'd vote TV every time.)
I have taught one child to read so far and I am a licensed English teacher, and I _still_ found it frustrating and not as easy as I wanted. BUT, I was armed with the knowledge that it doesn't really matter how early a kid reads and the _*opinion*_ that a school is no place for a five year old (Christian or public), so the pressure was not so great. _Theoretically_ I did not care if my kindergartner learned to read. (Of course I had to keep reminding myself this--as did my husband-- because it feels more productive when a kid DOES learn to read.) 
Another help in academics, which has been mentioned, is cyber school. In some states cyber school is paid for by the local school district--you could look into your state. I'd probably not pay for anything until compulsory education started to save a few bucks.


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## sitdownicantsee

sastark said:


> Is your church willing or able to help offset the cost of private school?
> 
> (off topic, but: I think churches are missing a great opportunity to serve families when they are unwilling to help with this expense. But, that's just my opinion.)



Seth - I would be optimistic to ask the church, but I am afraid that our church has just enough butter for the same amount of bread. Thank you for the suggestion.


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## sitdownicantsee

Jack K said:


> There's usually some sin in most big choices we make. But it is NOT automatically a sin to have someone else help educate your kids.
> 
> How you approach it, your reasons for making the decision you arrive at, your priorities in spending money and time and other family resources, your involvement in whatever education you choose, your general diligence in protecting and training your kids and loving your wife... these are things to keep examining for sin. Consider all the factors and the temptations associated with each of these. Then order your life, including educational decisions, according to what seems most pleasing to God. It isn't a sin/no-sin deal based simply on where your kids go to school, and it won't be the same for everyone. Your situation and your temptations differ from those of other believers.
> 
> My kids are in a Christian school but my wife and I have at times considered both home schooling and public school for one or both of them, taking into account all the factors I mentioned plus the particular schools, teachers, principals and level of parental involvement possible. They've also attended public school for a half a day each week to use the gym, computer lab, library, etc. All that is to say that I'm open to the idea that some kids in some Christian families can best thrive in some public schools. It's your decision to make and it's not a simple one. Consider all the factors, with much prayer and consultation with godly friends, and don't let anyone (including yourself) lay a guilt trip on you for your eventual choice.
> 
> And relax. I know that's hard when your kids are young and you're trying so hard to do the right thing. But you will make mistakes along the way and most of those can be rectified if you're paying attention. If you try one sort of schooling and it starts going badly, it's no shame to re-evaluate and make some changes.



Jack, I found that most comforting and helpful, thankyou.


----------



## sitdownicantsee

Miss Marple said:


> I will echo Sharon's comment, there are satellite schools, with streaming instruction, work graded by certified teachers, etc. I know Bob Jones does it, and if you search "satellite schools" or "distance Christian learning" or some such phrases, I think you will find more.
> 
> Also may I say it is a sin for your wife to refuse? It's a hard saying. But you are not asking her to sin. So she should do it, unless there are very serious reasons to keep her from it like extreme health hardships or illiteracy or something.
> 
> I don't suggest you should drop an edict like "Do it know and don't fuss about it!" In other words, I think you should be supportive and take it easy and find a tutor helper or a satellite system or teach the math when you get home or whatever. But, I think she should be confronted about her refusal. And I am a wife so it's ok for me to say!



My wife and I are 'new' Christians of a couple years, and are striving to conform ourselves. She and I have much to learn and 'prune!' Thank you for your advice, it is best to hear these things from fellow-believers, thankyou M. Rothenbuhler!


----------



## sitdownicantsee

Alan D. Strange said:


> I've not read every word here, brothers and sisters, but I want to support Heidi's points.
> 
> My wife and I have both Christian-schooled and home-schooled. The latter is a good deal of responsibility: a great blessing in many ways, but no small undertaking.
> 
> I do not think that this is simply a matter of submission, _simpliciter_. Here's why: the husband asking his reluctant wife to do this is asking her to do something that is not part of her ordinary biblical duties with respect to her children. Neither parent is tasked with teaching their children the academic subjects that society currently deems necessary. Parents biblically are to teach the fear of God, courteous and kind behavior, basic life skills, and whatever else they may be gifted to do. Many folk are not gifted to teach math, language, music, etc., all of which are valuable and make up an education. A parent is under obligation to train in the nurture and admonition of the Lord but not in the scholastic disciplines and it is perfectly proper for them to want to engage others to do this for them.
> 
> Given my own training, I took quite an active role in my children's education (some part of language, music, theology, science, literature, history, and philosophy). That has nothing to do with anyone else. I did not teach them technical automotive or home-building skills, lacking those myself. But we can get them for those desirous of such.
> 
> I am quite reluctant for folk to denominate as sin that which is not clearly such. It's easy for Dad to say "let's do this" and expect Mom to do it and it all falls on her. I think rather than people here simply declaring something arguable to be sin, it is better to take this matter to your local pastor and elders and see what they have to say. Mom and Dad both must do their job, but I don't see where the Bible defines that as teaching our children their academic subjects.
> 
> Peace,
> Alan



Pastor - well said, and it will be well-considered. Thank you for your time in writing your message.


----------



## sitdownicantsee

jwithnell said:


> I checked the HSLDA website for NC; your children must be in school:
> 
> 
> 
> “Between the ages of seven and 16 years.” General Statutes of
> North Carolina §115C-378.
> 
> 
> 
> So you don't have to make an immediate decision. Whatever you end up doing, may I encourage you to consider keeping your children home during those tender years of 4-6?
Click to expand...


J - we will definitely consider. With their birthdays being in November and January, they all, in all probability will enter school when they are 5.5


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## sitdownicantsee

a mere housewife said:


> One of the huge weaknesses with homeschool is that often it is a (tremendous!) burden almost entirely shouldered by the mom -- who is also trying to run the house and keep up with many other responsibilities and aspects of nurturing and caring for her family. And it is true that sometimes we simply aren't qualified (no reflection on general intelligence) for specialised areas of teaching. If your wife does not feel up for that, it's perfectly understandable. Sharon mentioned video school and that is certainly less expensive than a Christian school -- I was homeschooled largely on A Beka's video school program. I have known children do both very poorly and very well in homeschool, Christian school, and public school -- academically and spiritually. You could certainly confront your wife in this area -- it's true that we ladies ought to submit. But even though technically you'd be in your rights, I'm not sure that would be a dwelling with her according to knowledge, or the best way to help her over the hurdles she is facing? If your wife isn't personally convicted about homeschooling, she will probably not be able to cope with the demandingness of it very well.



Heidi - thank you, and I agree. I have been trying to be considerate, supportive, and loving. Thank you for your kind words, and no, you did not offend at all. I have read a few of your posts, I think someone would have to be offended on purpose, how could one get offended at your posts?!


----------



## sitdownicantsee

Shawn Mathis said:


> "I think rather than people here simply declaring something arguable to be sin, it is better to take this matter to your local pastor and elders and see what they have to say."
> 
> Counseling is local. We can give much good advice (note especially Prof. Strange's two posts) but you need the help of your local church my brother.
> 
> peace,



Shawn - yes, I will be doing exactly that tomorrow evening.


----------



## sitdownicantsee

Elizabeth said:


> I don't think the OP was concerned with _academics_ so much as _environment_, in sending his young children to gov't schools. I think he has serious concerns about the effect gov't schools might have _upon_ bringing his kids up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
> 
> And I think his concerns are justified, esp when his children are very young. I can honestly see how he may feel that sending his children into the maw of gov't schools IS sin. If we could send our kids to gov't schools for simple academics(2+2=4, CAT spells cat, sprouting seeds, etc), we'd not be having the dilemmas in our families.
> 
> But you get the whole ball of wax(academics, culture, philosophy) with the gov't schools. And frankly, a lot of the academics are very poorly taught.



Elizabeth, you have hit the nail on the head. You have put it in words that I could not.


----------



## Alan D. Strange

Elizabeth and Brian:

I fully understand the sentiment with which you are struggling, Brian, with respect to sending your child(ren) to public school. As I noted above, we never considered it an option. 

But it is a different matter to say to your wife, "Honey, you will teach the kids at home" with the implication that if she is reluctant to do so that she is unsubmissive and sinful. You may consider it wrong to send your kids to public school (we did and do consider it the thing which we ought not to do) but may have to seek other options than your wife teaching them. Are you able to teach them? At least some? Again, consulting with your pastor and elders is the way to go.

Peace,
Alan


----------



## OPC'n

I don't believe that going to public school is a bad thing at all. Jesus told us to be in the world but not of it. I think however you should have family time and check their homework and ask them what they learned and whatever they learned that wasn't within your belief system teach them why the world believes that and then teach them the correct thing. I know the kids in my church start learning the catechism when they are around 2 years of age so they already have a foundation by the time they are five. So keep driving that into them. If you wait till later to introduce them into the world, it will be something "new and shiny" for them and it might not go as well as you think. Teaching they why the world is wrong in some things will make them stronger and more knowledgeable ppl who can give good answers to ppl who question what they believe and combat the world's reasoning. I wouldn't be afraid of it at all.


----------



## jwright82

sitdownicantsee said:


> Hi all - I have a dilemma approaching in one year and need the help from my reformed friends; I have a four year old boy, twin 2.5 year old girls. I am having a lot anxiety over sending my kids to public schools, my wife is unwilling to homeschool - her opinion differs of mine, but she holds to the idea that our children need to be taught by those trained in teaching. Private Christian schooling around here is tremendously expensive, which would be $7,000+ per year, per child - so that option is out. The next option would be to move one town over and be in the more rural public school system our church resides in. Where our kids would be under the eyes of members and other children of the church. I am fearful of our kids being instructed most of their young lives by anti-Christian/atheistic agendas (not of our churchmembers, of course), some 14,000 hours by grade 12. I fear that I am committing a deliberate sin by not homeschooling our kids and sending them to public school-- what sayeth the Scriptures concerning this? What sayest the brethren? Opinions and guidance is most appreciated, friends..



If she is unwilling to do it, than she is unwilling to do it. The commandment to submit is given to the wife not the husband. You are commanded to love her as Christ loved the church not make sure she is submitting. But with that said she is obviously having doubts about home schooling, what are they? Have you sat done with her and talked about them? Have you made her fears and anxieties your primary focus? Does she know that you have her best interests in mind? In short have you reassured her that she is number one in your life? 

You see she is primed in one way to only submit when she can trust you in this matter. When she is emotionally reassured that you are concerned with her fears and worries and you are going to make those the focus of your manly problem solving efforts than she will be more compromising, in theory of course. I am in conversation with my ex-wife over this very issue. I am not so sure that we can home school our daughter but we are discussing it.


----------



## gordo

OPC'n said:


> I don't believe that going to public school is a bad thing at all. Jesus told us to be in the world but not of it. I think however you should have family time and check their homework and ask them what they learned and whatever they learned that wasn't within your belief system teach them why the world believes that and then teach them the correct thing. I know the kids in my church start learning the catechism when they are around 2 years of age so they already have a foundation by the time they are five. So keep driving that into them. If you wait till later to introduce them into the world, it will be something "new and shiny" for them and it might not go as well as you think. Teaching they why the world is wrong in some things will make them stronger and more knowledgeable ppl who can give good answers to ppl who question what they believe and combat the world's reasoning. I wouldn't be afraid of it at all.



Good post.


----------



## Scot

OPC'n said:


> I don't believe that going to public school is a bad thing at all.



What about a muslim or buddhist school. Would it also be a good thing for a christian to send their child there?


----------



## kvanlaan

> What about a muslim or buddhist school? Would it also be a good thing for a christian to send their child there?



Bingo - why do we think that they are any different? All are religious training grounds. One Muslim, one Buddhist, one humanist.

I would venture a guess to say that you either don't have children or have children too young for school if public school seems like a good idea. If it was that 'hey, I went to a public school and I'm fine', then perhaps one should look at the shifting sands of public education of now vs then. Or simply thank God for His saving grace in the face of adversity.

I actually can't handle the 'in the world, not of the world' argument when it comes to this - they are being trained each and every day to be '_of the world_' when they are in public school. The world has them 8:30 - 3:30, plus bus time. You get them after school until bedtime (less TV time, computer time, video game time, homework time). The world gets the paycheque, you get the spare change. I know it is trite, but the saying 'if you send your children to Rome, don't be surprised when they come back as Romans' is dead on in this respect.


----------



## Mindaboo

Brian, 

At one time I was just like your wife. I did NOT want to homeschool. I had absolutely no interest in it. When Brad started talking about it right after our first child was born I thought he was nuts. I wasn't a Christian at the time, and I really believed that only "fanatics" homeschooled their children. 

Brad always talked with me about it, but he never demanded it. He allowed me to work through my fears and anxieties. I only have a high school diploma and was a terrible student. I didn't see how I could do it. When I brought up my feelings and fear of failure he would reassure me. He believed I was capable. If you are really convinced this is the best way for your children the first thing you should do is pray that the Lord will soften her heart. I was hard hearted too. It wasn't until I became a Christian and went to church and saw first hand other women doing it that my mind slowly started changing. Homeschooling moms talked openly with me about their experience. It wasn't flowery. They told me the good, the bad, and the ugly. They gave me books and magazines to read. When my oldest turned four it started hitting me that I was going to hand my sweet little girl over to the school system for hours every day. She was going to ride the bus for more than 45 minutes each way with high school and middle school kids. Not only that but she would leave me at 7:30 every morning and not be returned until 4:30 every afternoon. She was only going to be 5. When I realized how much I'd miss with her by sending her out the door every day I changed. 

It sounds like your wife has some real fears. The best thing you can do is not push. I think it's wise to share your convictions, pray with and for her about it, and leave it with the Lord. Are you willing to help with the schooling? How much support will you be? I knew I would have Brad's full support. If I didn't know that I would have never started. The truth is that this is not just mom's job. It's hard, it's tedious, and some days I literally cry my way through. I never feel like I'm doing enough. The only thing I know is that the Lord fills in the gaps and gives His grace. 

I would highly recommend Chris Klicka's book "The Heart of Homeschooling". Read it yourself and then ask your wife to read it. It's a powerful book that really drives home the reasons why to homeschool. Give her information. Give her time. If you are patient and she knows you have her and your children's best interest at heart she'll really think through it. 

There are co-ops, video curriculums, etc. that can help her. The biggest pull for me, (aside from training my children in the Lord) was that I was going to have the teacher's manual and that had the answers in it. 

I don't know what to tell you if she doesn't change her mind. If Brad had pulled out the "submission card" on me I probably would have done it, because I know I am to submit. A wise husband knows his wife well enough to know how to bring out the best in her without manipulating her. Pray for wisdom. The Lord knows your wife's heart better than anyone.


----------



## Elizabeth

Amen, Kevin. The last decade even has seen a real decline in whatever quality was in the gov't schools. The indoctrination aspect has totally taken over over academics, in so many cases.

We sent our first three to gov't high schools after HSing them to that point, but by the time our last was through 8th grade, the school had so deteriorated that there was no way we were going to send her there.

Btw...the 'real world' thing, at least for most HSers I know here in IL, is a straw-man. Most are far more involved in the 'real world' than their sequestered, age-segregated school chums. Of course, part of that might be due to the freedom we have here to HS. No one needs hide, or anything.


----------



## OPC'n

Scot said:


> OPC'n said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that going to public school is a bad thing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a muslim or buddhist school. Would it also be a good thing for a christian to send their child there?
Click to expand...


Don't make me get the matches out


----------



## OPC'n

kvanlaan said:


> What about a muslim or buddhist school? Would it also be a good thing for a christian to send their child there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo - why do we think that they are any different? All are religious training grounds. One Muslim, one Buddhist, one humanist.
> 
> I would venture a guess to say that you either don't have children or have children too young for school if public school seems like a good idea. If it was that 'hey, I went to a public school and I'm fine', then perhaps one should look at the shifting sands of public education of now vs then. Or simply thank God for His saving grace in the face of adversity.
> 
> I actually can't handle the 'in the world, not of the world' argument when it comes to this - they are being trained each and every day to be '_of the world_' when they are in public school. The world has them 8:30 - 3:30, plus bus time. You get them after school until bedtime (less TV time, computer time, video game time, homework time). The world gets the paycheque, you get the spare change. I know it is trite, but the saying 'if you send your children to Rome, don't be surprised when they come back as Romans' is dead on in this respect.
Click to expand...


It's ok if you can't handle the argument of "in the world not of the world" on this subject for yourself and your family. If you decide something else for your family than public schooling it's OK. However, you can't throw out what Christ said just bc you don't like public schooling and say that it doesn't pertain to public schooling. Here's the Scripture:

"I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one."

As you know, the evil one is Satan not public schooling, so no one can tell anyone that sending their children to public schooling is sinful. What I would do is keep them out of school for as long as possible legally like someone said, teach them the catechism for a good foundation, and also teach them what the world believes and why it's wrong so when they find out about what the world believes (and they will) they will already know why it's wrong. I've seen home schooled kids go nuts once they got on their own and some don't. That's why Jesus said he gave them the Word (foundation of learning), wasn't asking that they be taken out of the world (can't live in a cave have to learn to spread the Gospel even kids do), only just kept from the evil one (he's the one we are to stay away from not ppl since we are to share the Gospel with them and you can't do that living in a commune type of lifestyle). You have at least 5 years to hardwire their lil brains to the catechism and whatever else you want them to learn. Point is.....everyone has to decide for their own family what is right for them and not put an extra burden on the church by having them pay to send your children to private schooling etc. Some churches can barely make ends meet and even if they are doing ok right now you never know when a family might lose their job or get very sick and the extra money has to go for those types of real needs.


----------



## GulfCoast Presbyterian

Scot said:


> OPC'n said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't believe that going to public school is a bad thing at all.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a muslim or buddhist school. Would it also be a good thing for a christian to send their child there?
Click to expand...


I have no kids of my own, so I don't really have a dog in this fight. However, I wonder about a couple of things based on many of the comments in this thread and others. I expect to see zero Christian teachers in a muslim or buddhist school. So, that is a totally apples/oranges situation. In my little town, I know many of the teachers and most of the administration in my district, because I have meet them at Church functions. The high school principal attends my Church, as do many teachers. Is it therefore a sin for a Christian to teach or work in the public education system, if it is a "sin" to send your kids?


----------



## Mindaboo

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> Is it therefore a sin for a Christian to teach or work in the public education system, if it is a "sin" to send your kids?



I don't know that it would be a "sin" to have Christians working as teachers in the public school. I would say that sending children is very different. A child is easily swayed by those they look up to and respect. A child doesn't always see "truth" and is easily influenced by those around them. An adult can handle these influences better, and if they are Christians they can be a positive influence,(salt and light). I wouldn't have wanted to send my children into an environment where Christianity is looked down upon and is not tolerated. They need their armor built up, and there is no one better suited to do that job than me. 

I do believe homeschooling is personal, and it is a choice to be made prayerfully. It is the duty of the parents to know that child well enough to know whether or not the child can handle that.


----------



## Scot

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> I expect to see zero Christian teachers in a muslim or buddhist school. So, that is a totally apples/oranges situation.



The question is not whether or not the teacher is christian but whether or not the child is getting a christian education. So it's not apples and oranges.



> Is it therefore a sin for a Christian to teach or work in the public education system, if it is a "sin" to send your kids?



I think if a christian teacher is in a public school and teaching from a government curriculum in which the children are taught humanistic and evolutionary paganism then yes. If the teacher is there and honestly teaching from a biblical perspective then no. If the latter is the case, you can guarantee that the school won't keep them long. For example, if they are history teacher, are they teaching the students that history is cyclical (pagan idea) or are they teaching them how God works through history to accomplish His predetermined plan? Government school history books do not teach how God works in history. If you're a christian history teacher, how can you teach the subject faithfully using the public school materials?

Scripture tells us that in Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. If the subject being taught does not start with Him then it is not true education.


----------



## Scot

Keeping Covenant With God
in the Education of Our Children
By Greg L. Bahnsen, Ph.D.

As a confession of their faith, testimony to the world, and instruction to all true believers, the school board has determined to adopt, in the following statement, their heartfelt and Biblically based conviction that the Lord has appointed to parents the responsibility and final authority to secure, guide and control the education of their children, that they might be trained regarding this world and in all areas of life to think God's thoughts after Him and walk in all His ways.

Man was created, as God's likeness and for God's glory, to study, subdue and develop the world in which God placed him (Gen. 1:26-28). Naturally, from the very beginning, it was a task which belonged to parents to instill this perspective in their children and help them to pursue it.

Ethical rebellion against God has resulted in a curse on mankind (Gen. 3:17-19) which is experienced not only spiritually (Rom. 8:5-8; Eph. 2:1-4) but also intellectually (Rom. 1:21-22; 1 Cor. 2:14; Eph. 4:17-18), and which introduces an unavoidable antithesis between those antagonistic to God and those who belong to the promised Savior (Gen. 3:15).

The task of pursuing proper knowledge of the world and developing a God-glorifying culture therein thus encounters tremendous obstacles and distortions, making it imperative that parents educate their children within the perspective and power of God's revelation and grace. The redemption which Christ has secured for us not only spiritually saves us from the wrath to come, but also delivers us from intellectual futility and foolish reasoning in our methods and learning about the world in which we presently live.

Genuine knowledge of any subject whatsoever begins with reverence and submission to God (Prov. 1:7), particularly the fundamentals and philosophy which adhere to the Lord Jesus Christ rather than the fallen world or human traditions (Col. 2:8; 1 Tim. 6:20). It is the word of God which sets apart His people in the truth (John 17:17). Thus neutrality in education is not only impossible (Matt. 12:30), but immoral (Jas. 4:4). Accordingly, the aim of Christian parents must be to encourage their children to "bring every thought captive to the obedience of Christ" (2 Cor. 10:5), "in whom are deposited all the treasures of wisdom and knoeledge" (Col. 2:3), Only if they are first disciples of Christ will they know the truth and enjoy real freedom (John 8:31-32).

Therefore, from the very beginning of history, then especially with the introduction of man's rebellion against God, and as well in light of the fundamental nature of any genuine knowledge, it is a parental duty to train and educate their children, regardless of the subject matter, in the nurture of the Lord and the light of His revelation (Eph. 6:4; Prov. 5:1-2; Ps. 36:9; 119:105, 130).

The responsibility rehearsed here has been part of the confession of faith of God's people from the earliest days, indeed a primary application of the first and great commandment (Deut. 6:4-5; cf. Matt. 22:37- 38). It constitutes a central element in what it means for those who are saved to keep covenant with God: "And these words which I command you this day shall be upon your heart, and you shall teach them diligently unto your children"--constantly and consistently, in every time and place, covering all the spheres of human thought, activity and living (Deut. 6:6-9). Note is taken that this responsibility has been assigned directly by God to parents, rather than any other institution of society. Regardless, then, of whatever children learn--from math and science to history, social studies, literature and the arts--parents have a God-given duty to see to it that their children learn it, as much as is possible (given the resources and opportunities available to their parents), with the perspective and application of the Christian worldview as derived from God's revelation.


----------



## OPC'n

Don't you think we should have to back-up the notion that public schooling is a sin with Scripture instead of "I think it's a sin bc....." I provided a Scripture which states that we shouldn't live in cave but be around worldly ppl to spread the Gospel, and children should start doing so at an early age so that it's well grounded into them and they do it freely as adults. Children at a young age love and respect their parents more than their teachers and if you have "trained up a child in the way they should go" starting at a very (about 2 yr old) then they are not going to all of the sudden change their minds to what the teacher is teaching especially if you have already taught them what the world believes and why it's wrong. The catechism teaches who created the world........ you could then teach them in a simple manner that the world believes in evolution and how wrong that thinking is. I'm sorry i'm being a bulldog on a stick on this matter...........i just don't like when ppl call something a sin when Scripture doesn't, and then the ppl doing it have a heavy burden they carry around that they don't need to carry around.


----------



## GulfCoast Presbyterian

Scot said:


> GulfCoast Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I expect to see zero Christian teachers in a muslim or buddhist school. So, that is a totally apples/oranges situation.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The question is not whether or not the teacher is christian but whether or not the child is getting a christian education. So it's not apples and oranges.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it therefore a sin for a Christian to teach or work in the public education system, if it is a "sin" to send your kids?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think if a christian teacher is in a public school and teaching from a government curriculum in which the children are taught humanistic and evolutionary paganism then yes. If the teacher is there and honestly teaching from a biblical perspective then no. If the latter is the case, you can guarantee that the school won't keep them long. For example, if they are history teacher, are they teaching the students that history is cyclical (pagan idea) or are they teaching them how God works through history to accomplish His predetermined plan? Government school history books do not teach how God works in history. If you're a christian history teacher, how can you teach the subject faithfully using the public school materials?
> 
> Scripture tells us that in Christ are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge. If the subject being taught does not start with Him then it is not true education.
Click to expand...


I am not sure about your first point. I went to public schools, was taught by Christians, and cannot remember a class where "religion" was not frequently mentioned, even biology, where what is now called "intellegent design" was a frequent discussion, and physics, where "if there was a big bang, what or Who pulled the trigger, and can we prove/disprove the "Who" with science" was a large topic of discusion. Perhaps that was an anachronism of the time and small town deep south. However, I am not sure what passes for "christian education" out of the local christian acadamies is any better than the public schools. My wife has taught the WSC to 6 graders for 14 years and often has wanted to pull her hair out over what these "christian school" students do not know. 

I thought this was a fairly interesting article on the issue of "teaching in public schools": http://homepage.mac.com/tforbes7/courses/ed6000/readings/public_schools.pdf


----------



## Scot

OPC'n said:


> Don't you think we should have to back-up the notion that public schooling is a sin with Scripture instead of "I think it's a sin bc....."



The article by Dr. Bahnsen that I posted above is full of scripture describing christian education. If you're looking for one verse that says "don't send your kids to public school" sorry, it's not there. Neither is there a scripture that says "God is a Trinity" but I'm sure you believe that doctrine because when looking at scripture as a whole you cannot properly come to any other conclusion.


----------



## Scot

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> I am not sure about your first point. I went to public schools, was taught by Christians, and cannot remember a class where "religion" was not frequently mentioned, even biology, where what is now called "intellegent design" was a frequent discussion, and physics, where "if there was a big bang, what or Who pulled the trigger, and can we prove/disprove the "Who" with science" was a large topic of discusion. Perhaps that was an anachronism of the time and small town deep south. However, I am not sure what passes for "christian education" out of the local christian acadamies is any better than the public schools. My wife has taught the WSC to 6 graders for 14 years and often has wanted to pull her hair out over what these "christian school" students do not know.



I agree with you about alot of the christian schools. The majority of christians today have adopted wordly ways of thinking about education. Christians somehow think that if the school is drug free and they have a chapel service then their children are getting a christian education.

You may have had open discussions on religious topics in school but would you really say that it was a christian education? When I teach my children a subject like science, I do not ask their opinion on how they think the world got here, I teach them from scripture how it got here.

I would again encourage everyone to listen to the sermon on education by Dr. Morecraft that I posted earlier in this thread.


----------



## ClayPot

OPC'n said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What about a muslim or buddhist school? Would it also be a good thing for a christian to send their child there?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bingo - why do we think that they are any different? All are religious training grounds. One Muslim, one Buddhist, one humanist.
> 
> I would venture a guess to say that you either don't have children or have children too young for school if public school seems like a good idea. If it was that 'hey, I went to a public school and I'm fine', then perhaps one should look at the shifting sands of public education of now vs then. Or simply thank God for His saving grace in the face of adversity.
> 
> I actually can't handle the 'in the world, not of the world' argument when it comes to this - they are being trained each and every day to be '_of the world_' when they are in public school. The world has them 8:30 - 3:30, plus bus time. You get them after school until bedtime (less TV time, computer time, video game time, homework time). The world gets the paycheque, you get the spare change. I know it is trite, but the saying 'if you send your children to Rome, don't be surprised when they come back as Romans' is dead on in this respect.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It's ok if you can't handle the argument of "in the world not of the world" on this subject for yourself and your family. If you decide something else for your family than public schooling it's OK. However, you can't throw out what Christ said just bc you don't like public schooling and say that it doesn't pertain to public schooling. Here's the Scripture:
> 
> "I have given them your word, and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. 15 I do not ask that you take them out of the world, but that you keep them from the evil one."
> 
> As you know, the evil one is Satan not public schooling, so no one can tell anyone that sending their children to public schooling is sinful. What I would do is keep them out of school for as long as possible legally like someone said, teach them the catechism for a good foundation, and also teach them what the world believes and why it's wrong so when they find out about what the world believes (and they will) they will already know why it's wrong. I've seen home schooled kids go nuts once they got on their own and some don't. That's why Jesus said he gave them the Word (foundation of learning), wasn't asking that they be taken out of the world (can't live in a cave have to learn to spread the Gospel even kids do), only just kept from the evil one (he's the one we are to stay away from not ppl since we are to share the Gospel with them and you can't do that living in a commune type of lifestyle). You have at least 5 years to hardwire their lil brains to the catechism and whatever else you want them to learn. Point is.....everyone has to decide for their own family what is right for them and not put an extra burden on the church by having them pay to send your children to private schooling etc. Some churches can barely make ends meet and even if they are doing ok right now you never know when a family might lose their job or get very sick and the extra money has to go for those types of real needs.
Click to expand...


I think Kevin's point was that it was a misapplication of that verse to justify sending your kids to public school. One thought in relation to that text was that text was directed to believers and presumably, for most children, they are not believers. Hence, the verse doesn't apply.


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## OPC'n

Scot said:


> OPC'n said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you think we should have to back-up the notion that public schooling is a sin with Scripture instead of "I think it's a sin bc....."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The article by Dr. Bahnsen that I posted above is full of scripture describing christian education. If you're looking for one verse that says "don't send your kids to public school" sorry, it's not there. Neither is there a scripture that says "God is a Trinity" but I'm sure you believe that doctrine because when looking at scripture as a whole you cannot properly come to any other conclusion.
Click to expand...


Of course there isn't a Scripture that says we shouldn't send our children to public schools. If there was we wouldn't even have this thread, but you can answer every life's question using the Bible. If you do, then you can be free of man-made laws that sound spiritual but are really an insult to God bc he didn't make it a law.


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## OPC'n

jpfrench81 said:


> I think Kevin's point was that it was a misapplication of that verse to justify sending your kids to public school. One thought in relation to that text was that text was directed to believers and presumably, for most children, they are not believers. Hence, the verse doesn't apply.



So you don't believe in "predestined before the foundation of the world" and "covenant children"? None of us know who is really in the faith. Jesus taught us that by giving us the parable of ppl dying and being surprised to find out they were in the goat section going to hell and others surprised they were in the sheep section going to heaven. So not only can we not be 100% that the adults around us are going to heaven or hell.....we also can't know that about the children. But they are covenant children and we treat them as such. How is it that I'm misapplying that verse? I believe it's very clear.....Christ doesn't want us hiding from the world he just doesn't want us to become apart of it and that applies to children as well.....if it didn't he would have said so. God can keep a child who is his child safe from the evil one while in the world just as well as he can adults........he's a pretty great God. Besides that I know of very reformed families who sent their children to public schools and some of them are walking with Christ and some are not. I also know of very reformed families who home schooled and it's the same with their children....some are walking with Christ and some are not. Jesus knew what he was talking about when he asked his Father to keep them from the evil one.....Satan....he's our enemy not the ppl of the world. The ppl of the world are our field in which we sow the seed.


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## Southern Presbyterian

**MODERATOR**

Thread Closed.

We're starting to stray too far for the scope of the OP.


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