# Can we discuss distance undergraduate programs?



## peetred (Dec 5, 2008)

What (if any) reformed distance learning programs offer undergraduate degrees? I am very knew to my knowledge of seminaries. Thank you for any help. 

What is your opinion of attending an online university such as Liberty University?


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## the particular baptist (Dec 5, 2008)

Whitefield Theological Seminary, Bachelor of Divinity.


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## cbryant (Dec 5, 2008)

It depends on what you're wanting to study? Do you have previous credits you want to transfer in? Is cost a factor? Is accreditation a factor?


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## Ivan (Dec 5, 2008)

Virtual Curriculum from Reformed Theological Seminary.


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## peetred (Dec 5, 2008)

cbryant said:


> It depends on what you're wanting to study? Do you have previous credits you want to transfer in? Is cost a factor? Is accreditation a factor?



No previous Credits. 
Cost is a factor....

Accreditation is a factor for my husband I would think. He has expressed interest in studying Theology, Eschatology, and Biblical Studies. It is not so important for me. I am mainly studying to have the knowledge to come alongside my husband in his studies and future work, as well as for my own growth.


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## Ivan (Dec 5, 2008)

peetred said:


> cbryant said:
> 
> 
> > It depends on what you're wanting to study? Do you have previous credits you want to transfer in? Is cost a factor? Is accreditation a factor?
> ...



What is your husband going to do with his degree?


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## Grace Alone (Dec 5, 2008)

I don't know if there are any accredited reformed colleges offering bachelor's degrees. But I can speak to Liberty's program. They have been doing it for a long time and have a very impressive program. They have 8 week sessions in which you concentrate on two courses (or one if you need to stretch it out due to work or finances). Our son finished his degree there and was very pleased. He did major partly in religion (which was mostly theology and Bible courses), and he did not find many of the courses to be problematic. He managed to make all A's and still finish as a Calvinist! He did avoid taking Revelation there, though.

If your income is low enough, you can qualify for Pell grants which will help pay for undergrad education. There is a minimum number of hours you have to take to qualify. You fill out the FAFSA forms to see if you qualify. Our son did because he finished school after his 24th birthday, so they looked at his (very low) income instead of ours. I'd say that it probably paid 75-80% of the tuition.

I would recommend a reformed seminary, of course, for graduate school. But for undergrad, we were very pleased with the quality of Liberty's program.


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## larryjf (Dec 5, 2008)

peetred said:


> No previous Credits.
> Cost is a factor....
> 
> Accreditation is a factor for my husband I would think. He has expressed interest in studying Theology, Eschatology, and Biblical Studies. It is not so important for me. I am mainly studying to have the knowledge to come alongside my husband in his studies and future work, as well as for my own growth.



Since you are not concerned about accreditation, but are concerned about cost, you might want to try the school that i'm involved with...
The North American Reformed Seminary


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 6, 2008)

Grace Alone said:


> I don't know if there are any accredited reformed colleges offering bachelor's degrees. But I can speak to Liberty's program. They have been doing it for a long time and have a very impressive program. They have 8 week sessions in which you concentrate on two courses (or one if you need to stretch it out due to work or finances). Our son finished his degree there and was very pleased. He did major partly in religion (which was mostly theology and Bible courses), and he did not find many of the courses to be problematic. He managed to make all A's and still finish as a Calvinist! He did avoid taking Revelation there, though.
> 
> If your income is low enough, you can qualify for Pell grants which will help pay for undergrad education. There is a minimum number of hours you have to take to qualify. You fill out the FAFSA forms to see if you qualify. Our son did because he finished school after his 24th birthday, so they looked at his (very low) income instead of ours. I'd say that it probably paid 75-80% of the tuition.
> 
> I would recommend a reformed seminary, of course, for graduate school. But for undergrad, we were very pleased with the quality of Liberty's program.




I am graduating from Liberty in the next few weeks and I would have to say that most of it was a waste. They are anti-reformed. Arminian Dispensational is the only way.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Dec 6, 2008)

Christ Theological Seminary


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## cbryant (Dec 6, 2008)

Christian Distance Learning: Online College, Seminary Degrees


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## larryjf (Dec 6, 2008)

cbryant said:


> Christian Distance Learning: Online College, Seminary Degrees





Baker's Guide is a great resource.


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## JDKetterman (Dec 6, 2008)

If your husband is interested in the ministry, Greenville does have a Bachelor of Divinity program and they also offer distance learning.


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## GTMOPC (Dec 6, 2008)

*Mbi*

I'm doing D.L. for the Bachelor of Science in Biblical Studies at Moody Bible Institute. The program in my opinion is top notch! I was throwing around either Moody or Liberty but after I was informed Moody was reformed in soteriology I jumped on that opportunity quick! 

My experience so far (first year) has been positive. Like I said they are reformed so don't worry that the school is named after D.L. Moody. They are Dispensational though, and I thought that was going to be a problem. But after taking the 'Church and its Doctrines' course I see that they are open to allowing you to maintain your conviction concerning covenant theology. They even teach the basics of CT though they maintain their belief in Dispensationalism.

Moody has been doing distance learning since like 1913 I think so they know what they're doing I believe. They have three options for D.L. which are: Online, Modular (regional classrooms/online), or Independent (correspondence, up to 6 months to complete the course).

Tuition is $220 per credit hour for online and $167 for independent courses. Plus they just started doing 8 week accelerated courses which cram everything into 8 weeks and also 8 week courses geared for 8 weeks without cramming to much into the 8 weeks. Also this month they are having a sell on independent studies courses which is 50% off so you can basically take 2 courses for the price of one! They seem to be having deals every semester and lots of flexible options for study and both of those factors make it a pleasant experience to study at Moody in my opinion.

If you are considering a certain seminary or Graduate school you might check to see if they accept a Moody degree, but the schools I'm looking at I think should accept my degree. They are accredited in Florida and Illinois I think for Christian Education but they don't have the state accreditation a secular school might require. 

Moody Distance Learning- BSBS


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## Hilasmos (Dec 6, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Grace Alone said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if there are any accredited reformed colleges offering bachelor's degrees. But I can speak to Liberty's program. They have been doing it for a long time and have a very impressive program. They have 8 week sessions in which you concentrate on two courses (or one if you need to stretch it out due to work or finances). Our son finished his degree there and was very pleased. He did major partly in religion (which was mostly theology and Bible courses), and he did not find many of the courses to be problematic. He managed to make all A's and still finish as a Calvinist! He did avoid taking Revelation there, though.
> ...



I understand your sentiment, and I am bitter in many ways towards Liberty (as I am a product); however, I am often reminded of Sproul speaking of the Liberal colleges he attended. I remember reading Edward's _Freedom of the Will _while an undergraduate taking a class in Romans, since me and the Professor had an on-going debate/discussion about free-will. Suprisingly though, he tought double predestination from Romans 9 (but rejected limited atonement, of course). 

So, I can't say I would "recommend" liberty for theology, but if you approach it with the right attitude, you can learn a lot as it will drive you to defend what you believe (you will be doing double duty). 

I did my undergrad in biblical studies, and for a theology class I had to read two extra books on theology and write a review of their position and interact with it. I chose Owen's _Death of Death_, and Murray's _Redemption Accomplish and Applied_, while they wouldn't agree with me they didn't give me a hard time about it, and I scored well.

-----Added 12/6/2008 at 10:48:57 EST-----



> I was throwing around either Moody or Liberty but after I was informed *Moody was reformed in soteriology *I jumped on that opportunity quick!



Until I see the wounds in his side and hands, I will not believe it


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 6, 2008)

Will,

The thing about Liberty distance ed is that you are almost guaranteed to be the only reformed guy in your class. So no one is teaching you the basics of the reformed faith. Sure some teachers let you basically say whatever you want, but you are not learning. Any learning you may get is from reading books. So why not save the money on tuition and just get the books? You get the same result.

Now if you are needing a BA out of necessity for further education, then Liberty can fill that need. If on the other hand you are wanting to learn, then I say ask people here on PB about books, buy them, and then ask people here any questions you may have about the books. You will learn alot more that way.


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## GTMOPC (Dec 6, 2008)

Hilasmos said:


> > I was throwing around either Moody or Liberty but after I was informed *Moody was reformed in soteriology *I jumped on that opportunity quick!
> 
> 
> 
> Until I see the wounds in his side and hands, I will not believe it



What are you trying to say? They uphold the doctrines of grace.


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## Hilasmos (Dec 6, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Will,
> 
> The thing about Liberty distance ed is that you are almost guaranteed to be the only reformed guy in your class. So no one is teaching you the basics of the reformed faith. Sure some teachers let you basically say whatever you want, but you are not learning. Any learning you may get is from reading books. So why not save the money on tuition and just get the books? You get the same result.
> 
> Now if you are needing a BA out of necessity for further education, then Liberty can fill that need. If on the other hand you are wanting to learn, then I say ask people here on PB about books, buy them, and then ask people here any questions you may have about the books. You will learn alot more that way.



Well, I think that goes a little too far. There is a lot more "neutral" learning that can take place, in my opinion. Not every class is about soteriology. I do understand that the "Reformed tradition" reaches much further than that, but that isn't to say much can't be gained. Did I miss a lot by taking 2 years of Greek in my undgrad from a 4 point Calvinist vs. some other guy at some reformed school? Maybe, but probabably not that much. I understand though, and wish I wouldn't have gone there, but I don't think its all a wash.



> Any learning you may get is from reading books. So why not save the money on tuition and just get the books? You get the same result.



I would dare say this is extends to many schools, reformed or not.

-----Added 12/6/2008 at 12:45:56 EST-----

But, to answer your question, you pay the tuition to get a piece of paper. Sad, but true.


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 6, 2008)

Will,

How did you take greek as an undergrad at Liberty? I would have loved to take those classes. Did I miss them? Do they not give them any more? Are they residential only? 


It is true that not everything is about soteriology, but here are some of the problems.


You are alone in your theology classes. 90% of the time I was the only one advocating my position for our papers.

The concept that mankind sucks is completely foreign to everyone. Therefore you get alot of Jesus is your friend/best bud thinking. If you speak toward man's total depravity, you are told that someone is praying for your depression (I had it happen several times).

Nearly every book of the Bible you study has strong Reformed traditions in them and if you have a different starting point, then you will have a different ending point. 

For example, I wrote a mini paper on the Jerusalem Council this morning. I saw the Abrahamic Covenant and Galatians 3 all in Acts 15. Everyone else saw this as the Law and OT are done away with, now we have Jesus and He loves everyone. 


I agree with your last statement. I had a chaplain who went to Covenant say that the best thing about Covenant was its library.


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## GTMOPC (Dec 6, 2008)

Hilasmos - Are you going to answer the question? What's so hard about believing Moody is reformed in soteriology? I am wondering why that's funny. Do you have any experience or knowledge that informs your remark?


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## Hilasmos (Dec 6, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Will,
> 
> How did you take greek as an undergrad at Liberty? I would have loved to take those classes. Did I miss them? Do they not give them any more? Are they residential only?
> 
> ...



I was on campus for a few years, and finished taking classes through DLP after the birth of my first. For monetary reasons, I continued my M.A. work through Liberty DLP, and I haven't had the problems you seem to be having. I had some really good discussions, for example, in my Hebrews Class (654) in our "discussion forums." There were no "lectures" like the old school DLP, I think they are swinging away from that now. We had required reading of F.F. Bruce, George Guthrie, and N.T. Wright (which suprised me) in terms of Commentaries; and Bruce and Guthrie are pretty solid. 

I understand that "most" are from a different planet. Perhaps it gets better in graduate classes, but I still hold that in the midst of "debate" it forces one to refine their position even more. Not that "that" enviroment is good, but there are some positives. 

My view of education has really moved to one of "self education" through the structure of a class. That, in part, is why I really like that Liberty is moving away from a straight "lectures on tape" approach to a class.


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 6, 2008)

maybe it is an undergrad vs. grad thing, but the undergrad classes are ugly. Plain and simple.


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## Hilasmos (Dec 6, 2008)

GMcClain20 said:


> Hilasmos - Are you going to answer the question? What's so hard about believing Moody is reformed in soteriology? I am wondering why that's funny. Do you have any experience or knowledge that informs your remark?



Okay?? It was just a joke. Yes, I know pastors, missionaries, and my Grandfather in-law is a Moody grad. If they are Reformed, good for them. I was just making a statement about my "doubt" based on stereo typing the school. Nevermind.

-----Added 12/6/2008 at 01:04:39 EST-----



Chaplainintraining said:


> maybe it is an undergrad vs. grad thing, but the undergrad classes are ugly. Plain and simple.



I took undergrad before they did the online forum stuff. That involved basically lecture and tests and papers. Really not much interaction with others. So, I guess we are from different experiences in the matter.


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## CharlieJ (Dec 6, 2008)

GMcClain20 said:


> Hilasmos - Are you going to answer the question? What's so hard about believing Moody is reformed in soteriology? I am wondering why that's funny. Do you have any experience or knowledge that informs your remark?



I know that faculty publications aren't always representative of current conditions, but the _Moody Handbook of Theology_ by Paul Enns is "free grace" non-lordship, basically following Ryrie.

If their views are changing, though, good for them.


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## GTMOPC (Dec 6, 2008)

CharlieJ said:


> GMcClain20 said:
> 
> 
> > Hilasmos - Are you going to answer the question? What's so hard about believing Moody is reformed in soteriology? I am wondering why that's funny. Do you have any experience or knowledge that informs your remark?
> ...



A lot of their source material on the course study guides is from work by Ryrie. 

Hilasmos - No worries, I just wanted you to clarify. I wanted to know if your remark was substantiated.


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