# Protestantism in the Early Church



## rembrandt (Jun 10, 2004)

How Protestant was the Early Church? 

Do you think there was any Southern Baptist preachers?


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## pastorway (Jun 10, 2004)

John the Baptist was born in a city of Judah, which would have been south of Jerusalem and considered southern Israel.

So I guess that means he was John the [i:2a5572e1be]Southern[/i:2a5572e1be] Baptist!

:bs2:

Phillip


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## Scott (Jun 11, 2004)

The early church was very Protestant in many respects. With regard to worship, for example, see Hughes Oliphant Old's The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship. In many ways, the magisterial reformers were trying to recover their patristic roots, which had been obscured through years of additions.

It was not Protestant in the sense that it was divided or protesting against something.


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## Ianterrell (Jun 12, 2004)

[quote:ca1df37063][i:ca1df37063]Originally posted by pastorway[/i:ca1df37063]
John the Baptist was born in a city of Judah, which would have been south of Jerusalem and considered southern Israel.

So I guess that means he was John the [i:ca1df37063]Southern[/i:ca1df37063] Baptist!

:bs2:

Phillip [/quote:ca1df37063]


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## Bladestunner316 (Jun 12, 2004)

Or &quot;John the Baptist&quot; 'Baptizer of Baby's'


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## fredtgreco (Jun 12, 2004)

[quote:a17379f02b][i:a17379f02b]Originally posted by Scott[/i:a17379f02b]
The early church was very Protestant in many respects. With regard to worship, for example, see Hughes Oliphant Old's The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship. In many ways, the magisterial reformers were trying to recover their patristic roots, which had been obscured through years of additions.
[/quote:a17379f02b]

Thanks for pointing this out Scott. Through the efforts of Craig Bulkeley, this book is being reprinted now. It is the best antidote to the claims that Rome's &quot;smells and bells&quot; approach to worship and modern innovations are ancient.


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 12, 2004)

There is some good early church info in 'The Pilgrim Church' by EH Broadbent. Recommended reading!


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## LadyFlynt (Jun 12, 2004)

[quote:9f0739b338][i:9f0739b338]Originally posted by Bladestunner316[/i:9f0739b338]
Or &quot;John the Baptist&quot; 'Baptizer of Baby's'  [/quote:9f0739b338]

Ooooohhhhh....you're not right for that one! 


from a Reformed Baptist sister!


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## Scott (Jun 14, 2004)

[quote:13f82e34e4]
Thanks for pointing this out Scott. Through the efforts of Craig Bulkeley, this book is being reprinted now. It is the best antidote to the claims that Rome's &quot;smells and bells&quot; approach to worship and modern innovations are ancient. 
[/quote:13f82e34e4]

Fred,

I find Justin Marytyr's writings on worship instructive and provide confirmation for a Puritan-style worship. There are two keys differences in what he describes and what we see today, though. The first is that communion is weekly. The frequency of communion is determined on a congregational basis in our PCA churches. Some reformed congregations do have weekly communion, though, which I think is wise. Second, in Justin's time deacons took the elements from the service to the sick, aged, and others who were unable to attend. Both of these practices indicate a high view of the sacraments that is missing in some churches today. Here is the excerpt:

[quote:13f82e34e4]
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.
[/quote:13f82e34e4]

Anyway, this could be a description of almost any service governed by the regulative principle.


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## py3ak (Jun 14, 2004)

[quote:ec1896c364]
And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succours the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. 
[/quote:ec1896c364]

Scott, good quote. I read a piece by Justin Martyr yesterday where he was collecting testimonies from the heathen to the unity of God, future judgment, and so forth. It was very good. I had two questions, though, and thought you might know the answer. One is that there doesn't seem to be any singing in his description. Did I overlook something? The second question is why 
[quote:ec1896c364]
bread and wine [i:ec1896c364]and water[/i:ec1896c364] are brought
[/quote:ec1896c364]
? Why the water?

I've heard that there was some debate among the Puritans as to whether a reader was permissible to ease the burden on the preacher, and that they decided that there was no regulative principle warrant for having a reader.


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## Scott (Jun 14, 2004)

Ruben:

Actually the absence of singing caught my attention too. I am not sure why he omits it. I think it is well established that singing was a part of the services.

I am also not sure why the mixing of the wine. I know this still happens in some traditions. Anglicans, for example, do this.

Scott


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