# Stretched out the Heavens



## pm (Sep 14, 2008)

I am fascinated by the universe and its size, the billions and billions of light years.

I use to think that God made the universe big enough for Him to dwell in, now I believe the universe dwells inside God. 

I also believe that the universe is infinite, without end. Try to wrap your mind around that thought!

Here are a few of my favorite verses regarding the universe.

Job 9:8 who alone stretched out the heavens and trampled the waves of the sea;

Psalm 104:2 covering yourself with light as with a garment, stretching out the heavens like a tent.

Isaiah 40:22 It is he who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; who stretches out the heavens like a curtain, and spreads them like a tent to dwell in;

We serve a truly magnificent God!


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## toddpedlar (Sep 14, 2008)

pmkadow said:


> I am fascinated by the universe and its size, the billions and billions of light years.
> 
> I use to think that God made the universe big enough for Him to dwell in, now I believe the universe dwells inside God.



Careful here... God has no spatial extent. That is, He doesn't exist in space as we do, so take care not to suppose something like that - it can't be said that "the universe dwells inside God". It can't, since God's not a 3-dimensional being inside of which the universe could be said to dwell.



> I also believe that the universe is infinite, without end. Try to wrap your mind around that thought!



It may very well be, though I'm not sure what leads one to that conclusion. I can't think of any Scripture which tends to support that idea. 



> We serve a truly magnificent God!



*THAT* we do. No argument there.


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## DeoOpt (Sep 14, 2008)

VV Cephei A, the supergiant, is one of the largest stars known, and believed the third largest star in this galaxy (after the hypergiant VY Canis Majoris). 

Antares (α Scorpii / Alpha Scorpii) is a red supergiant star in the Milky Way galaxy and the sixteenth brightest star in the nighttime sky (sometimes listed as fifteenth brightest, if the two brighter components of the Capella quadruple star system are counted as one star). Along with Aldebaran, Spica, and Regulus it is one of the four brightest stars near the ecliptic. Antares is a Variable star, apparent magnitude is +0.9 to +1.8.





Betelgeuse (pronounced /ˈbiːtəldʒuːz/ or /ˈbɛtəldʒuːz/[4]) ( α Ori, α Orionis, Alpha Orionis) is a semiregular variable star located 427 light-years away from Earth.[1] It is the second brightest star in the constellation Orion and the ninth brightest star in the night sky


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## pm (Sep 14, 2008)

*Essence of the living God*



> Careful here... God has no spatial extent. That is, He doesn't exist in space as we do, so take care not to suppose something like that - it can't be said that "the universe dwells inside God". It can't, since God's not a 3-dimensional being inside of which the universe could be said to dwell.



I agree that God is Spirit, but He can become corporal as seen in the life of Jesus. When I said "the universe dwells inside God", I was trying to demonstrate by way of comparison the immeasurable, enormous, incalculable essence of the living God


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## Christusregnat (Sep 14, 2008)

pmkadow said:


> I also believe that the universe is infinite, without end. Try to wrap your mind around that thought!



pmkadow
Presbyterian
Pennsylvania,

May I just call you P-cubed? 

Anywho, I have a few thoughts:

1. Infinity is traditionally seen as an incommunicable attribute of God. If we ascribe infinity to a created thing, are we not divinizing part of the created order? The passages you cited call the universe a tent, or an enclosed space; not an infinite abyss. 

2. Much of the "measurements" of modern science are speculative, at best. Men think they know a great deal, but what they "know" is generally based on a model of assumptions, which if all true would render their theories sound, but if one of which is not, the whole conclusion is rendered tenuous.

3. This points up the general unsoundness and speculative nature of empiricism; it can arrive at no certain conclusions, and therefore, so-called science should not influence the interpretation we give to any passage of Scripture that we read, in my opinion. An excellent book against empiricism is Gordon Clark's The Philosophy of Science and Belief in God. See Matthew McMahon's review here:

"A Philosophy of Science and Belief in God"

This may, perhaps, be a suitable subject for another thread. However, I agree with your main thrust, which is that the created order is filled with beauty and wonder, and that we can praise our mighty God for it!

Cheers,


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## toddpedlar (Sep 14, 2008)

pmkadow said:


> > Careful here... God has no spatial extent. That is, He doesn't exist in space as we do, so take care not to suppose something like that - it can't be said that "the universe dwells inside God". It can't, since God's not a 3-dimensional being inside of which the universe could be said to dwell.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that God is Spirit, but He can become corporal as seen in the life of Jesus. When I said "the universe dwells inside God", I was trying to demonstrate by way of comparison the immeasurable, enormous, incalculable essence of the living God



That He CAN become corporal is granted, with caveats (see below). That He did is granted (though one has to be careful about how far to go with that statement, for Jesus' being did not exhaust the essence of God. That is, it should not be thought that while Christ was on earth God was limited in physical extent to Christ's body - Christ today lives and reigns as the eternal God-man, fully divine and fully human even now)

The fact that God CAN become corporal is, however, limited to His revelation of His perfect image in Christ, period. There is no Scripture whatsoever on which to base any claim that God would become corporal in any other way. Besides, the corporal nature that God took on was that of human nature - Christ's corporal nature was not divine - it was fully human. The second person of the Trinity took on human flesh - his corporal being was limited to his humanity. I don't believe it is correct to say that the divine being of God became physical. God is Spirit. The only way for God to "be corporal", as Scripture teaches anyway, is for Him to join perfectly the human and divine, as He did in Christ. 

Again, I would caution you about any thoughts like "the universe dwells within God". I don't see how such a statement encompasses what you have intended to say. God's essence is NOT a "physical" substance - and to talk of the universe "dwelling within him" is to frame God in a physical way which is unbiblical and not at all useful. God isn't "bigger" than the universe - He simply cannot be described in those terms. 

Your language also, no matter how correct your thinking might be on the subject, can confuse the unbeliever - and give wrong impressions of who God is. So no matter how straight things might be in your own mind, I'd just caution you against such language as you've used - pantheists say the same thing as you have.


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## pm (Sep 15, 2008)

*The Universe and God*

I don't wish to be argumentative but I see nothing wrong with what I stated previously.



> When I said "the universe dwells inside God", I was trying to demonstrate by way of comparison the immeasurable, enormous, incalculable essence of the living God



I shall say no more about this in this thread.


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