# Can Anyone Clarify This?



## InChains620 (Apr 26, 2007)

How do we make God's sovereignty and predestination correlate with 2 Peter 3:9. If God is not willing that any should perish, how do I explain to arminian friend about election in relation to this verse.

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9


----------



## panta dokimazete (Apr 26, 2007)

You are not contextualizing "any" and "all".

Any and All, in this context, does not mean "the totality of humankind". This is easily demonstrated in Scripture.

It means either:

1. many types

2. or any and all the chosen in Christ

I think it it properly understood as being 2.


----------



## Chris (Apr 26, 2007)

InChains620 said:


> How do we make God's sovereignty and predestination correlate with 2 Peter 3:9. If God is not willing that any should perish, how do I explain to arminian friend about election in relation to this verse.
> 
> "The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9



It's been discussed here several times. I'm too lazy to search, but it's simply a matter of context. 

Peter is talking to a group of believers, 'all' of whom the Lord wants to be saved. Your Arminian friend is using eisegesis to support his conclusion about this verse.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Apr 26, 2007)

so...

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you not wishing that any (of the Elect) should perish, but that all (the Elect) should reach repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9


----------



## panta dokimazete (Apr 26, 2007)

Context:

2 Peter 1
1Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, *To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours* by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ

so...

"The Lord is not slow to fulfill His promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you not wishing that any (of *those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours*) should perish, but that all (*those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours*) should reach repentance." - 2 Peter 3:9


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Apr 26, 2007)

It helps if we read the Scriptures as a whole and not prooftext. Here's the passage:



> 1*Dear friends*, this is now *my second letter to you*. I have written both of them as reminders to stimulate you to wholesome thinking. 2I want you to recall the words spoken in the past by the holy prophets and the command given by our Lord and Savior through *your apostles.*
> 3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
> 
> 8But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. 9The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient *with you*, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.



Who is the the Lord patient with?

You.

Who are the "you"?


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Apr 26, 2007)

Just in case you don't know who Peter wrote this Epistle to:



> 1Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,
> *To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours: *
> 
> 2Grace and peace be yours in abundance through the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Apr 26, 2007)

Look! A virtual Vulcan mind meld!

 -> Rich


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Apr 26, 2007)

joshua said:


> Alex, do you remember that whole "Q & A" suggestion thing? These are good questions for those things.  Maybe you and Ian can think of some. I've yet to find any not cards with questions on them at the church.



Wait a second!

Alex: You and Josh know each other?

Is Josh this "arminian" you're speaking of?!


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Apr 26, 2007)

joshua said:


> The only Arminian I know on the PB is Jeff Bartel. And from what I can tell he's pretty much been snuffed out.





I almost woke up my kids with that laugh!

Good night all!


----------



## CalvinandHodges (Apr 26, 2007)

Hi:

As I gather this: the professor is stating that a theist cannot use the Cosmological Argument when debating an Atheist, Agnostic, or someone similar because the theist is presupposing God in order to affirm God. This is usually an argument that is thrown up against Presuppositionalists rather than Evidentialists.

Concerning the Cosmological, or any of the rational proofs of the existence of God for that matter, the point of contact between the Atheist and the Theist is the Law of Causality. It is at this point, from an evidentialist perspective, that one should engage this professor.

Does the professor believe in the Law of Cause and Effect?

Does the Universe have a Cause?

If the Universe has a Cause, then what attributes can we ascribe to this Cause?

Hope this helps,

-CH


----------



## IanWatson (Apr 26, 2007)

joshua- when are we gunna have small group again? 
I will be working on some questions in the mean time.


----------



## InChains620 (Apr 26, 2007)

*Thanks!*

Thanks for the help, your thoughts do help clarify these verses. I appreciate the help. 

And Yeah, unfortunatley I do know Joshua..... he is pretty liberal in his theology. (I think he may be a bad influence)

Thanks Again,


----------

