# Reformed Baptist Poll



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

For all the Reformed Baptist on the board what Strain of Reformed Baptist do you consider yourself belonging too? Why?


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

oops me bad, I forgot one.... 

How do you add to the poll..

I forgot Founders Strain (Reformed Southern Baptist/Malone style)


----------



## Blueridge Believer (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm usure what to check brother. We've probably got a little of all those in our church. We hold to the 1644.


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Particular Baptist cannot work anymore since there two are strains of Particular Baptist... The Reformed Covenantal Baptist and the Sovereign Grace (Dispensational) Baptist... Both claim to be Particular but with two completely different systems of Theology...

Sovereign Grace Baptist is listed on the poll as Ashland Strain.. They broke with Reformed Baptist in 1980. Unless you are talking about Soverign Grace Ministries (PDI) Josh Harris which falls under Charismatic/Piper Strain.

Never heard of FIRE Baptist


Deep Water Presbyterian... haha, I was just thinking last night the name "High Water Presbyterian" for a name..... lol






trevorjohnson said:


> WHat about those who label themselves as :
> 
> Particular Baptist
> 
> ...


----------



## CDM (Apr 9, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> WHat about those who label themselves as :
> 
> Particular Baptist
> 
> ...



What's a "Deep water Presbyterian"? Sounds like they're Presbyterian except they immerse instead of affuse.


----------



## tfelice (Apr 9, 2007)

thunaer said:


> Never heard of FIRE Baptist



FIRE would be the Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals

http://www.firefellowship.org/


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Sounds like a Chantry/ARBCA like churches... We will throw them in with them.....  

Michael




tfelice said:


> FIRE would be the Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals
> 
> http://www.firefellowship.org/


----------



## tfelice (Apr 9, 2007)

I would agree Michael. There's also the Reformed Baptist Fellowship which again is close to the ARBCA group. There are likely some churches that are members of two or all three of those associations.


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Rolfe Barnard was one of the main people behind the Ashland Strain... So is Henry Mahan, Not sure about the other name (Don Fortner)....

I did already mentioned that I forgot the Founders strain from the SBC...

But this is not about churches as much as what strain you personally adhere or belong to....

I covered all except the Founders, about every major strain of Reformed Baptist. Each one is different in Worship, or some other Theological area....


Michael




trevorjohnson said:


> Where do Henry Mahan, Rolfe Barnard and Don Fortner fit in?
> 
> 
> Or those independants that broke from the SBC or the Baptist Bible Fellowship.
> ...


----------



## MrMerlin777 (Apr 9, 2007)

I'm no longer a credo baptist but when I was I was more along the lines of the SBC Founders strain. Though I found myself attending mostly Presbyterian churhces. 

Didn't post an answer on your poll though as I don't want to skew the results since I'm a paedo-baptist now.


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

I did adhere to the Montville Strain for years until our Montville Styled Church starting to change....

It made me study a few issues out, and now I belong to the Topeka Strain which is similiar to Montville in most area's except it is Exclusive Psalmody, and A-Capella.

I still love Al Martin Preaching...  Just hold to a more stronger RPW....


Michael


----------



## smhbbag (Apr 9, 2007)

The CredoPresbyterian Strain.


----------



## No Longer A Libertine (Apr 9, 2007)

What if yer a fence straddler covenant presbyterian, as in you respect the concepts but aren't totally convinced of them?

I guess that is what I am, Church of the Fence Straddler Covenant Theology Presbyterians...of America (CFSCTPA). Wow what a long acronym.


----------



## Philip A (Apr 9, 2007)

When I was a Baptist, I was in a church that was part of SCARBC, the Southern California Association of Reformed Baptist Churches. I don't know how it relates to the others, but back in the day we had the likes of Earl Blackburn, Rich Barcellos, Jim Renihan, etc. Pretty solid bunch, as far as Baptists go.

Of course, the multitudinous strains of the "Reformed Baptist" movement should tell you something, but I'm not telling what that something is


----------



## Herald (Apr 9, 2007)

Sorry brother, we don't fit it any of your choices.


----------



## smhbbag (Apr 9, 2007)

> Of course, the multitudinous strains of the "Reformed Baptist" movement should tell you something, but I'm not telling what that something is



And if you think that's bad, look at the _infinite_ number of strains in the "Reformed Paedobaptist" movement 

I believe that's what we call "Hoist on your own petard"


----------



## elnwood (Apr 9, 2007)

My church and I don't fit into any category either, but I like the FIRE churches, although technically FIRE is not "Baptist" since many are not congregationally governed.


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

I agree, Sorry for my fuzzy unthinking mind... 
Ok, here is a short rundown...


1. Montville Reformed Baptist Strain (Al Martin Style)

Strict non-Exclusive Psalmist Regulative Principled, Only Trinity Hymnal with only one instrument to Aid singing i.e. Piano, Old Testament or New Testament Reading in every Service. Very Formal attire. Very Conservative. Systematic Book by Book Sermons. Big on Oversight.
Very Independent. Strict Sabbataran. Ruling Elders and Teaching Elders are same office with Plural Elders. Services can be long and beyond an hour for just the sermon.

2. Carlisle Reformed Baptist Strain (ARBCA/Chantry Style)

Less Formal Attire, Not to big on the Regulative Principle, might even have CCM within Worship. Fellowships like ARBCA organizations. Less Sabbataran except Chantry himself. Rebukes at Oversight Meetings.

3. Topeka Reformed Baptist Strain (Langley/Exclusive Psalmody Style)

Just like Montville except with Exclusive Psalmody with A-Cappela Singing. Also Similiar to RPCNA Worship except Credo..

4. Charismatic Reformed Baptist Strain (Piper Style)

Charismatic, Tongue Speaking, Prophecy Telling, Very CCM Music. Ruling Elders Apart from Teaching Elders.

5. Ashland Schism Strain (sovereign grace/MacAurther)

Dispensational with no Regulative Principle Worship. No Sabbath Keeping. Gospel Era Hymns

6. Non-Confessional Reformed Baptist

Hold not to the 1689 or other Baptist Confessions.

7. Founders Strain

Similiar to Ashland Strain except Covenantal. Very Southern Baptisy Feel. Sometimes very touchy feeling in Worship. Quite Short Service...


Hope this helps...
Michael





joshua said:


> What I think would've been most helpful for folks is if you would highlight the distinctions theologically amongst said groups.
> 
> For Example: Make the poll, then in your opening post something like this:
> 
> ...


----------



## elnwood (Apr 9, 2007)

To add to what Michael posted, here is a well-documented history of the modern day Reformed Baptist movement.

http://www.bju.edu/library/collections/fund_file/refobap1.html


----------



## tfelice (Apr 9, 2007)

Well done summary. However, I disagree that the ARBCA churches are "not too big on the regulative principle". The ARBCA has a position paper on the regulative principle on their site.

http://65.71.233.194/arbca/documents.htm


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Not to Big compared to Montville or Topeka is what I meant...  

Michael



tfelice said:


> Well done summary. However, I disagree that the ARBCA churches are "not too big on the regulative principle". The ARBCA has a position paper on the regulative principle on their site.
> 
> http://65.71.233.194/arbca/documents.htm


----------



## Me Died Blue (Apr 9, 2007)

There is, however, a very significant difference between the two, in that FIRE does not formally subscribe to an historic Baptist confession (though they make note of it, the only formal subscription is their brief statement of faith), while the ARBCA does (1689).



thunaer said:


> Sounds like a Chantry/ARBCA like churches... We will throw them in with them.....
> 
> Michael


----------



## turmeric (Apr 9, 2007)

No Longer A Libertine said:


> What if yer a fence straddler covenant presbyterian, as in you respect the concepts but aren't totally convinced of them?
> 
> I guess that is what I am, Church of the Fence Straddler Covenant Theology Presbyterians...of America (CFSCTPA). Wow what a long acronym.



That's called PCA!


----------



## Bandguy (Apr 9, 2007)

An Al Mohler Reformed Baptist, I think. What would you call them?


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Haha, I agree....

They even have a similiar rundown...

Montville Strain = OPC
Topeka Strain = RPCNA and other Reformed Presbyterians
Carlisle Strain = PCA
Charismatic Strain = Charismatic Reformed
Ashland Strain = Dispensational Presbyterians (Yes, they do exist)

Plus a few more... PCUSA, Some who redefine Confession i.e. Frame, and countless others....




smhbbag said:


> And if you think that's bad, look at the _infinite_ number of strains in the "Reformed Paedobaptist" movement
> 
> I believe that's what we call "Hoist on your own petard"


----------



## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Founders Strain.. The one I missed on the Poll... 



Bandguy said:


> An Al Mohler Reformed Baptist, I think. What would you call them?


----------



## Bladestunner316 (Apr 9, 2007)

Mine is non-confessional and I dont think we would classify oursleves as Reformed Baptist more Dispensationalist Baptist.


----------



## Philip A (Apr 9, 2007)

smhbbag said:


> And if you think that's bad, look at the _infinite_ number of strains in the "Reformed Paedobaptist" movement
> 
> I believe that's what we call "Hoist on your own petard"



Um, I count two strains of the Reformed.

1) URCNA
2) RCUS

Maybe I'm missing something?  

Then again, I don't expect most Baptists to know the history of the Reformed churches. Heidelberg what? Or maybe I shouldn't expect them to be able to count past two ( and hence 2 really is an _infinte_ number). 

OK, OK, I'll resist the urge to post and make this into another "beat up on the Baptists" thread.


----------



## Me Died Blue (Apr 9, 2007)

Philip A said:


> Um, I count two strains of the Reformed.
> 
> 1) URCNA
> 2) RCUS
> ...



I agree; you _are_ missing something... 

3) CARC (Canadian and American Reformed Churches)
4) FRCNA (Free Reformed Churches of North America)
5) HNRC (Heritage Netherlands Reformed Congregations)
6) HRCA (Hungarian Reformed Church in America)
7) OCRC (Orthodox Christian Reformed Church)
8) PRCA (Protestant Reformed Churches in America)
9) RCQ (The Reformed Church of Québec)


----------



## Ivan (Apr 9, 2007)

thunaer said:


> Founders Strain.. The one I missed on the Poll...



If you need to put me in a box, this is what I would be, although I like aspects of Piper and MacArthur.


----------



## staythecourse (Apr 9, 2007)

*Reformed Baptist Louisville*

Pastor Jim Savastio here was mentored under Al Martin. I've never met him but I read some of his biography, "My Heart for Thy Cause." Has anyone else read it or is it unknown outside of a close circle of his appreciaters?


----------



## turmeric (Apr 9, 2007)

Philip A said:


> Um, I count two strains of the Reformed.
> 
> 1) URCNA
> 2) RCUS
> ...



Nothing like a converted...Baptist! That's okay, Philip, you'll get over the cage-stage!


----------



## Philip A (Apr 10, 2007)

turmeric said:


> Nothing like a converted...Baptist! That's okay, Philip, you'll get over the cage-stage!



...rght about the time I get over the foot-in-mouth stage!


----------



## smhbbag (Apr 10, 2007)

> Um, I count two strains of the Reformed.
> 
> 1) URCNA
> 2) RCUS
> ...



I'm well familiar with what you're trying to do here  , but you've applied a different definition of "strain" to Reformed Paedo's than to the credo's.


----------



## tfelice (Apr 10, 2007)

I never commented myself here, though I voted. I would fall under the Carlisle/ARBCA group. Additionally, I am an individual member of FIRE. We hope to be working with ARBCA, FIRE and/or the RBF with this potential church plant.


----------



## elnwood (Apr 10, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> check out:
> 
> www.sovereigngracebaptistfellowship.org
> 
> for my group of folks.



Nice. Is there a complete list of churches?


----------



## JM (Apr 10, 2007)

Any more on the Ashland Strain?


----------

