# Further Shaking up at the Crystal Cathedral



## sastark (Dec 15, 2008)

Anyone have any more info on the latest shake up at the Crystal Cathedral? It looks like Robert A. Schuller, son of Robert H. Schuller has resigned as senior pastor. If you remember only a little while ago the son was booted from the "Hour of Power" TV program.

Crystal Cathedral pastor Schuller resigns | church, schuller, pastor, robert, cathedral - News - OCRegister.com


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## LawrenceU (Dec 15, 2008)

The local radio station here reported 'officially' that he was booted for not 'rotating' the pulpit with guests. The local fellow said it was because he used the Bible more than his father did.


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## sastark (Dec 15, 2008)

LawrenceU said:


> The local radio station here reported 'officially' that he was booted for not 'rotating' the pulpit with guests. The local fellow said it was because he used the Bible more than his father did.



That's in reference to the Hour of Power? If that's so, then I wonder where he will end up now that he isn't senior pastor at Crystal Cathedral anymore and I also wonder how "orthodox" he actually is.


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## BobVigneault (Dec 15, 2008)

In an article from October, Robert H. said that his dad was not responsible for the 'shake up'; instead, he blames the president and board.

If you look at the names on the board you will find Mr. Jim Penner, CEO and Jim Coleman, President.

All of the Schuller kids have very high profile jobs in the business. Sheila Schuller Coleman is head of Family Ministries at The Crystal Cathedral and has assisted in many of Schuller's most visible printed works. Gretchen Schuller Penner is programming director for the Hour of Power.

Now if you were tracking the last names above and connect the dots then you were correct if you guessed that Grechen is Mrs. Jim Penner, CEO and Sheila is Mrs. Jim Coleman, President.

I don't know all the salacious details of what's happening there but you can bet that Thanksgiving was not a very happy time in the Schuller manse.

As Robert H. would say



> Again and again, the impossible problem is solved when we see that the problem is only a tough decision waiting to be made.
> 
> Always look at what you have left. Never look at what you have lost.
> 
> ...


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## sastark (Dec 15, 2008)

BobVigneault said:


> In an article from October, Robert H. said that his dad was not responsible for the 'shake up'; instead, he blames the president and board.
> 
> If you look at the names on the board you will find Mr. Jim Penner, CEO and Jim Coleman, President.
> 
> ...




Wow. Good info! And this:



> I don't know all the salacious details of what's happening there but you can bet that Thanksgiving was not a very happy time in the Schuller manse.




Made me laugh. All very interesting!


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## BobVigneault (Dec 15, 2008)

Sorry, I meant to include a link to the article from Oct. Here it is.


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## Christusregnat (Dec 15, 2008)

Joshua said:


> This touched me, Bob. It touched me right in my small intestine. Thanks.


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## CDM (Dec 15, 2008)

Joshua said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > As Robert H. would say
> ...


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## lynnie (Dec 15, 2008)

I am new here so please forgive me if this has been posted before. I just want to help your intestine......

*********************

Robert Schuller - Quotes from Self-Esteem: The New Reformation

Quotes from Robert Schuller's Self-Esteem: The New Reformation

"The classical error of historical Christianity is that we have never started with the value of the person. Rather, we have started from the 'unworthiness of the sinner,' and that starting point has set the stage for the glorification of human shame in Christian theology" (p. 162).

"What do I mean by sin? Answer: Any human condition or act that robs God of glory by stripping one of His children of their right to divine dignity. ... I can offer still another answer: 'Sin is any act or thought that robs myself or another human being of his or her self-esteem'" (p. 14).

"Classical theology defines sin as 'rebellion against God.' The answer is not incorrect as much as it is shallow and insulting to the human being. Every person deserves to be treated with dignity even if he or she is a 'rebellious sinner" (p. 65).

"The core of original sin, then is LOT -- Lack of Trust. Or, it could be considered an innate inability to adequately value ourselves. Label it a 'negative self-image,' but do not say that the central core of the human soul is wickedness. ... positive Christianity does not hold to human depravity, but to human inability" (p. 67).

"Any analysis of 'sin' or 'evil' or 'demonic influence' or 'negative thinking' or 'systemic evil' or 'antisocial behavior' that fails to see the lack of self-dignity as the core of the problem will prove to be too shallow" (p. 68).

"... the core of sin is a lack of self-esteem. ... Sin is psychological self-abuse. ... the most serious sin is one that causes me to say, 'I am unworthy. I may have no claim to divine sonship if you examine me at my worst.' For once a person believes he is an 'unworthy sinner,' it is doubtful if he can really honestly accept the saving grace God offers in Jesus Christ" (pp. 98-99).

"And what is 'hell'? It is the loss of pride that naturally follows separation from God -- the ultimate and unfailing source of our soul's sense of self-respect. 'My God, my God, why has thou forsaken me?' was Christ's encounter with hell. In that 'hellish' death our Lord experienced the ultimate horror-humiliation, shame, and loss of pride as a human being. A person is in hell when he has lost his self-esteem. Can you imagine any condition more tragic than to live life and eternity in shame?" (pp. 14-15, 93).

"What we need is a theology of salvation that begins and ends with a recognition of every person's hunger for glory" (pp. 26-27).

"We are born to soar. We are children of God. ... The Fatherhood of God offers a deep spiritual cure for the inferiority complex and lays the firm foundation for a solid spiritual self-esteem" (p. 60).

"I am humanly unable to correct my negative self-image until I encounter a life-changing experience with non-judgmental love bestowed upon me by a Person whom I admire so much that to be unconditionally accepted by Him is to be born again" (p. 67).

"To be born again means that we must be changed from a negative to a positive self-image -- from inferiority to self-esteem, from fear to love, from doubt to trust" (p. 68).

"The Cross sanctifies the ego trip. For the Cross protected our Lord's perfect self-esteem from turning into sinful pride" (p. 75).

"Christ is the Ideal One, for he was Self-Esteem Incarnate" (p. 135).

"Jesus never called a person a sinner. ... Rather he reserved his righteous rebuke for those who used their religious authority to generate guilt and caused people to lose their ability to taste and enjoy their right to dignity ..." (pp. 100, 126).


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 15, 2008)

> Quotes from Robert Schuller's Self-Esteem: The New Reformation





(couldn't find the puke smiley)


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## DMcFadden (Dec 15, 2008)

"The Cross sanctifies the ego trip." (p. 75).

Somehow it sounds more like a "theology of glory" than Luther's "theology of the cross." Hmmmm.


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## Christusregnat (Dec 16, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> "The Cross sanctifies the ego trip." (p. 75).
> 
> Somehow it sounds more like a "theology of glory" than Luther's "theology of the cross." Hmmmm.



I don't think we'll think THAT way in glory!!!!


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## BJClark (Dec 16, 2008)

Family dynamics, vision at heart of Crystal Cathedral controversy | schuller, robert, penner, cathedral, church - News - OCRegister.com



> GARDEN GROVE – The Rev. Robert A. Schuller, who resigned as senior pastor from Crystal Cathedral late last month, said today that he did so because he didn't want to be a pastor in "name only."
> 
> "What's the point in being a pastor if you're not allowed to preach?" said the 54-year-old son of the Rev. Dr. Robert H. Schuller, who founded the megachurch in Garden Grove.





> The Cathedral's Web site states that Robert A. Schuller is expected to make an announcement soon regarding plans for a new ministry. The younger Schuller would not say if he plans to start his own ministry, but said he will make an announcement in January.
> 
> The decision to have guest pastors on the show was one of the main reasons Robert A. Schuller is not a part of the "Hour of Power" any more, said Crystal Cathedral's spokesman, John Charles. But at no point was Robert A. Schuller told not to preach, he said.
> 
> "It was suggested that he rotate with other preachers and he was opposed to that," Charles said.



What the members are questioning...



> However, longtime members question the reasoning behind the ousting of the younger Schuller, who they say captured a sizeable audience with his traditional sermons that drew extensively from scripture.


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## Grymir (Dec 16, 2008)

hmm, interesting...people in glass houses and all that. hmm


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## calgal (Dec 16, 2008)

Grymir said:


> hmm, interesting...people in glass houses and all that. hmm


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## nicnap (Dec 16, 2008)

Joshua said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > As Robert H. would say
> ...


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## jwithnell (Dec 16, 2008)

Gosh, given the location, I was thinking, "earthquake"?


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## sastark (Dec 16, 2008)

jwithnell said:


> Gosh, given the location, I was thinking, "earthquake"?





A poor choice of words in the subject line of my original post!


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