# What's going on at Erskine?



## TimV (Mar 2, 2010)

Seem's things are getting to the point that shirt sleeves are rolled up. I know we've had threads on this before, but due to the impending meeting, could someone in the know please give us a summation of the situation? I must say, when I read things like this:



> He sees the church commission siding with those who attack him for the way he has taught. "I think there will be an attempt to make sure that all professors at the college are doctrinally pure," he said. (While Crenshaw appears to be the most outspoken among faculty members concerned about the current situation at the college,* several professors who declined to talk said he had the most accurate assessment of the situation and had the guts to say what they believed, but were unwilling to be quoted saying.)*


News: Battle of Wills and Faith - Inside Higher Ed

I get to thinking about sneaky, spineless liberals who like crawling under rocks when the sun shines on them. Admittedly a personal prejudice, but if you're in the right, you should let the chips fall where they may and take a stand.


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## sastark (Mar 2, 2010)

Tim, my response to that article in Inside Higher Ed: The Ruling Elder: The Erskine Issue in a Nutshell.

Also, for some background info, see this previous blog entry: The Ruling Elder: Called Meeting of ARP Synod.


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## LeeJUk (Mar 2, 2010)

I guess every single battle between liberalism and evangelicalism began in the colleges in this way. If the ARP doesn't take a firm grip over this situation a few decades down the line and you could be looking at at a carbon copy of the PC(USA) or C of S.


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## TimV (Mar 2, 2010)

Wow. Thanks, Seth. I see there are still some ARP members who still have a backbone.



> After all, as another (unnamed) professor said "this campaign was not in fact coming from people who really understand church teachings, but from those who think they do."



Then get out from under your rock and prove it, or the rest of us will think you've been hanging around maggots for too long.


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## sastark (Mar 2, 2010)

Tim, there are many men in the ARP who still stand for truth, and I am less than the least of them. Pray that those men, who are meeting in North Carolina right now would judge rightly in this matter.


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## TimV (Mar 2, 2010)

Will do, Seth.


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## Scottish Lass (Mar 2, 2010)

Tim plans to comment/blog on the meeting as much as possible--they convened today at 4:30 p.m., I believe. Pray for peace among the brethren and that God is glorified by the outcome.


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## Curt (Mar 2, 2010)

sastark said:


> Tim, there are many men in the ARP who still stand for truth, and I am less than the least of them. Pray that those men, who are meeting in North Carolina right now would judge rightly in this matter.



Fight on, Seth - and other ARP brothers.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 2, 2010)

The ARP fought this back in the late 60's and won a strategic victory in the fight against Liberalism or they would have been the PCUS of the 1950's.. This fight tonight and tomorrow is really a continuation of that fight in the late 60's. Hopefully this meeting snuffs out the last embers.


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## Stomata leontôn (Mar 2, 2010)

Liberalism is only part of the problem at ETS. The bigger issue is the long-time abandonment of Biblical, Presbyterian rule in favor of rule by persons and families for all the benefits that come with it.

That said, liberals aren't always nice. More than a dozen undergrads were rounded up, cussed and sworn at and threatened with arrest for chalking Bible verses on walkways (the verses were hosed off and replaced with gay and transgendered propaganda for parents' day). A seminarian was actually arrested for suggesting to someone important that Jehovah's Witnesses were not Christian and for accidentally observing a higher-up cheat for a foreign student. Then there is the openly gay seminarian who loudly came out of the closet as an undergrad and has been treated like a king at the seminary -- where he slights professors by dramatically chatting on Facebook and shopping for shoes online while the professors try to deliver carefully prepared, Reformed lectures.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 2, 2010)

I posted a new blog post here.


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## sastark (Mar 3, 2010)

Just posted to The Aquila Report: Breaking News: ARP Synod votes to reorganize Erskine Board of Trustees, erects Committee to rewrite Bylaws

Good news! Praise be to God!


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## LawrenceU (Mar 3, 2010)

Good news! I needed that today. Praise God for godly men and that a quorum was held.


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## sastark (Mar 4, 2010)

Some of my thoughts on the actions of the Synod: The Ruling Elder: Thoughts on the Results of the Called Meeting of the ARP


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## Marrow Man (Mar 4, 2010)

I will be posting more updates (and more detail) later today, Lord willing. In the interim, someone just sent me this article -- it is biased (the title is incorrect, for starters), only interviews disgruntled persons (and only one of the persons interviewed was even at the meeting of General Synod), and perpetuates unsubstantiated rumors. Beware of what's out there.


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## sastark (Mar 4, 2010)

I look forward to your thoughts, Pastor Phillips.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 4, 2010)

A coup?


Marrow Man said:


> I will be posting more updates (and more detail) later today, Lord willing. In the interim, someone just sent me this article -- it is biased (the title is incorrect, for starters), only interviews disgruntled persons (and only one of the persons interviewed was even at the meeting of General Synod), and perpetuates unsubstantiated rumors. Beware of what's out there.


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## sastark (Mar 4, 2010)

Check out this comparison (in the article Pastor Phillips mentioned):



> There has also been talk of a narrowing of the college’s bylaws to require all professors to be of the *reformed faith*. Elsner said he thinks strict adherence to the college’s mission is a more important quality in teachers than their denominational faith.
> 
> The chief goal should be to help students grow academically and grow as Christians.
> 
> "*Blind faith is a weak faith*,” Elsner said. "'A faith untested is like a sword untempered; it breaks in the first battle.’ ... (Students) have to be able to function in the world so they have to be able to understand evolutionary perspective.”



So, the reformed faith is blind and weak? Or adherence to the reformed faith is blind faith? Has this man ever even met a reformed pastor? Wow.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 4, 2010)

NaphtaliPress said:


> A coup?
> 
> 
> Marrow Man said:
> ...


 
There is gross ignorance from outsiders about how Presbyterian polity actually works. You will note that most of the naysayers weren't actually in attendance at the meeting.

Here is a more accurate account, by someone actually in attendance. I have also made a couple of post at my blog.


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## SemperEruditio (Mar 4, 2010)

sastark said:


> Check out this comparison (in the article Pastor Phillips mentioned):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Blind/weak" is the same argument made at my seminary. It's bogus. What happens is that people come into seminary with their faith which the professors label as "blind," "weak," "untested," "Sunday School"... and the student only becomes enlightened when they disregard their "blind/weak" for the truly tolerant faith of relativism. It's mind boggling how inclusivist are inclusive of everyone except exclusivist thereby making them exclusive....

I will pray for Erskine.


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## LawrenceU (Mar 5, 2010)

I, too, will be praying for Erskine. That first article is a typical hack job. I am glad to see you all handled this well and look forward to seeing the school brought back to a more firm footing.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 5, 2010)

If you want to see part of the "problem" with Erskine (the College), both past and present, check out the Facebook fan page and see all the comments written with regard to the recent Synod decision.


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## Stomata leontôn (Mar 5, 2010)

Things are getting hot in the Seminary right now. The lives of many Christians have been ruined. Much money has been stolen. Even those who know and teach decent Reformed doctrine have shown an absence of true faith in the Gospel. There are two, maybe three, professors at the Seminary whom I could regard as genuine believers, and one of them is Baptist. There are many angry faces here and scurrying around in the shadows.


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## N. Eshelman (Mar 5, 2010)

Marrow Man said:


> If you want to see part of the "problem" with Erskine (the College), both past and present, check out the Facebook fan page and see all the comments written with regard to the recent Synod decision.


 
How come it's just the libs yappin' on the FB page- I didn't read much (if any) who were glad that Erskine is reforming and seeking God's glory. 

Plus, why does maintaining confessional standards equal a refusal to allow 'critical thinking'? Just don't get it.


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## Scottish Lass (Mar 5, 2010)

nleshelman said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to see part of the "problem" with Erskine (the College), both past and present, check out the Facebook fan page and see all the comments written with regard to the recent Synod decision.
> ...


 
I started to respond, but then thought better of it. Tim's well enough known in this fight without me wading in, too. 

Plus, "critical thinking" is code for "teaching whatever we want regardless of agreements we made to do otherwise".


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## TimV (Mar 5, 2010)

> I started to respond, but then thought better of it. Tim's well enough known in this fight without me wading in, too.



But for the rest of us, an opportunity from some good, clean fun.


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## bouletheou (Mar 5, 2010)

How come when liberals seize and exercise power, it's called "justice." When conservatives do it, it's called "injustice?"


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## TimV (Mar 5, 2010)

> How come when liberals seize and exercise power, it's called "justice." When conservatives do it, it's called "injustice?"



'Cuz you guys hurt our feelings, and persecute us always. After reading your post, I thought I woke up and was in the OPC. If Bullinger says 


> That each part (the sign and the thing signified) retaineth their natures distinguished, without communicating or mingling of properties,


and I want to interpret that to mean Bullinger said that the sign and the thing signified are not to be distinguished, who are you to make me feel bad and say I'm wrong?

And the ARP should just keep it's nose out of those things it is responsible for. Haven't any of you heard of a chain of command?


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Mar 5, 2010)

How dare the Synod think it's wrong for professors to criticize, ridicule, and reject its own teachings? How dare they found a college, give money and support, then expect that they have a say in how the college is operated? How dare they think a Christian college should be... well... Christian????

Funny how one of the commenters said this would "turn Erskine into a Bible college and it will have to close down." If I recall correctly, Bob Jones, Covenant, and Liberty seem to be doing quite well.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 5, 2010)

The strawman bugaboo that keeps getting raised is that the ARP wants to turn Erskine into "another Bob Jones." How absurd. That was addressed, believe it or not, on the floor to Synod. No one is wanting to enact strict dress codes, etc. like at Bob Jones. But as one presbyter said, it's telling that some folks are afraid of Erskine becoming another BJU, but they aren't frightened at the prospect of Erskine becoming another Furman or Wofford, two schools which no longer resemble their Christian beginnings.


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## Stomata leontôn (Mar 7, 2010)

Marrow Man said:


> they aren't frightened at the prospect of Erskine becoming another Furman or Wofford, two schools which no longer resemble their Christian beginnings.


That's right. And at the Synod, the TC hoped to make Erskine College the "Wheaton" of the Southeast.

As for the comments about liberals at the Seminary, what do you do with individuals who teach the right doctrine, but work with corrupt admin behind the scenes and target conservative students for persecution who display prominent leadership skills? Who is more dangerous, the open liberal or the fake conservative, the known Sadducee or the secret Pharisee?


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## bouletheou (Mar 7, 2010)

I was at Louisville Prebyterian Theological Heretic Factory (PCUSA) when Al Mohler went in over at Southern and cleaned house. I had a ringside seat. I got to hear the liberal professors who had been fired give lectures at my seminary, and listen to the liberal students who had been invited to straighten up or leave kvetching in the cafeteria of my seminary to a very sympathetic crowd.

It sounded a lot like what the nitwits are saying about Erskine right now. My advice is pay it no mind, stay the course, and don't grow weary in well-doing. If the shoe were on the other foot, I guarantee they'd be ruthlessly exercising power. I know. I've been on the receivng end of that particular stick.

Besides, every theological liberal I've ever met was standing in an epistemological quaqmire and was completely unaware of it.


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## sastark (Mar 8, 2010)

The latest development: News: Questions on Erskine


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## DMcFadden (Mar 8, 2010)

Tim,

The closing of the article Seth links to says:



> Paul Bell, executive director of the church's central office, said via e-mail that at the church meeting where the trustees were dismissed, "the issue of accreditation was discussed from various angles."



Can you enlihten us on this aspect of the controversy?


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## Stomata leontôn (Mar 8, 2010)

sastark said:


> The latest development: News: Questions on Erskine


This article indicates that the anti-Christians are trying to keep control. It's great that it quotes Ruble as coming out of the closet as one of them. But this should have been apparent since his history of Erskine focuses on rule by individuals and families, apart from Presbyterian governance. Remember one of the biggest allegations in the TC's report was the absconding of funds, which is what personal rule is all about. I have witnessed some of this first-hand.

Do not forget that the tension down here is extreme. Good Christians have been sent to the county jail (yes, really), and this is something the persecutors of Jesus Christ don't want you to know.

Follow the money. Isn't that what it's usually about?


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## Marrow Man (Mar 9, 2010)

DMcFadden said:


> Tim,
> 
> The closing of the article Seth links to says:
> 
> ...


 
The idea of accreditation (i.e., the college and/or seminary losing theirs because of the way the Board was being handled) crept into the conversation a few times on the floor of Synod. It was strictly an appeal to fear, the sort of "we shouldn't do this because it might cause us to lose our accreditation" scare tactic. But one of the members of the Moderator's Commission actually works as a lawyer in the state of SC in dealing with higher education institutions. He had consulted with a number of institutions who have done similar actions, and in no case was the revocation of accreditation even an issue.

Dr. Ruble (President of Erskine) also dropped another appeal to fear when he mentioned that SACS (the accreditation agency) looks unkindly upon schools that cannot submit a balanced budget. EC has done so for the past three years, but he said that donations were down this year, and if the Synod went forward, it could get worse and affect the budget for this year. What he did not say is that part of the reason that donations were down is that people and churches were fed up with what was going on at Erskine and wanted to see action take place before they donated.

Last evening, I received this email from the Erskine Alumni Association. Even though they were opposed to the Commission's report and recommendations, they are supporting the actions of Synod and calling others to do the same:



> Alumni of Erskine College and Seminary,
> 
> Having just left a meeting with Dr. Ruble and the College and Seminary Cabinet, I want to take an opportunity to share with what I understand to be the current status of the College and Seminary. Like many of my friends and fellow alumni, I have tried to refrain from knee jerk reactions and brash statements. I have attempted to stay off posting boards out of deference to the wishes of the Erskine administration.
> 
> ...


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