# Desiring companionship or love?



## arapahoepark (Nov 4, 2019)

Just been ruminating lately on what is a healthy perspective on desiring marriage. Is there a difference between desiring companionship and desiring to be liked romantically? The latter seems to stem from insecurity (and perhaps lead to codependency), but is that desire intrinsically wrong?


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 4, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> Is there a difference between desiring companionship and desiring to be liked romantically?


There are different kinds and degrees of companionship of which romantic love is one kind. 

Am I right to assume you are speaking of a desire to be married?


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## arapahoepark (Nov 4, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> There are different kinds and degrees of companionship of which romantic love is one kind.
> 
> Am I right to assume you are speaking of a desire to be married?


Yes.


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## Pergamum (Nov 4, 2019)

Neither desire is wrong. We were not made to be alone. We get married for multiple reasons.

Reactions: Like 3 | Edifying 1


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## VictorBravo (Nov 4, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> The latter seems to stem from insecurity (and perhaps lead to codependency)



Romance is thrilling and occasionally scary. So yes, there might be some insecurity present, but, properly, it is a good sort of insecurity that is tempered and protected by "old shoe" companionship. Learning new things is sometimes risky, but necessary.

I think of Romance as connected to big picture lofty aspirations--soaring and sometimes crashing. Companionship is more related to keeping mundane details in pleasant order-- roof remains overhead, supper is pleasant and comfortable, both have put together a safe place to rest their heads.

Nothing wrong with balancing them.

Codependency: I've never been able to pin this down. Sure, the counselors of the world call it a bad thing--it destroys your self-worth, etc. But properly done, it is important. A couple ought to be able to depend upon each other. That's the whole point of coupleness.

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## arapahoepark (Nov 5, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Neither desire is wrong. We were not made to be alone. We get married for multiple reasons.





VictorBravo said:


> Romance is thrilling and occasionally scary. So yes, there might be some insecurity present, but, properly, it is a good sort of insecurity that is tempered and protected by "old shoe" companionship. Learning new things is sometimes risky, but necessary.
> 
> I think of Romance as connected to big picture lofty aspirations--soaring and sometimes crashing. Companionship is more related to keeping mundane details in pleasant order-- roof remains overhead, supper is pleasant and comfortable, both have put together a safe place to rest their heads.
> 
> ...


Thanks for this. I have just been curious and wondering about how I can be godly during a search. Having been turned down several times since high school, though not recently, it has undeniably led to some insecurities. Yet, I still long to be...well attractive to... And liked by someone and I have been wondering how that sort of longing is supposed to be godly. I can see how it can be unhealthy, especially in many friends and girls I have run across who flock to someone with two legs who gives them attention. On the other hand, I am seeing a lot of the opposite; go for this or that or companionship, service, etc. Etc. In the sense you talk about Vic. While not wrong in thr least, it seems to deny true feelings. In essence, I am wondering if such desires are valid without a pietist coating.


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## ZackF (Nov 5, 2019)

VictorBravo said:


> Codependency: I've never been able to pin this down. Sure, the counselors of the world call it a bad thing--it destroys your self-worth, etc. But properly done, it is important. A couple ought to be able to depend upon each other. That's the whole point of coupleness.



I think the "properly done" bit is the key. When healthy interdependence loses the healthy part, co-dependence has moved in...paranoia, control issues, neediness and so on. Even in in healthy relationships such issues may come up. It's just they don't overwhelm the relationship as to sink it.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 5, 2019)

ZackF said:


> I think the "properly done" bit is the key. When healthy interdependence loses the healthy part, co-dependence has moved in...paranoia, control issues, neediness and so on. Even in in healthy relationships such issues may come up. It's just they don't overwhelm the relationship as to sink it.


Interesting. Even from my reading, skimming, etc. on this, I have thought I don't think I ever seen or heard any relationship devoid of these components deemed bad or self interested. Yet in pursuing a relationship isn't there an obvious self interest?


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## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2019)

Most people in the world get married and have kids. Yes, it is self-interest to desire marriage and for someone to love you, but you also desire to love and give your life to them as well. So it is mutual. A happy marriage increases the happiness and the life span of both husband and wife, studies show. And a husband's role is to sacrifice for his wife and kids. So is it really selfish to desire a selfless relationship with an object of your love?

In many ways staying single is more selfish because it is easier. And a man is at less risk because the courts favor women so much today that a man puts himself at severe risk when he marries. Godless single men today can get easy sex without any of the financial risks of marriage. 

This sounds cold, but I believe it is helpful to look at dating and marriage as a market transaction as well. Many church folks put more thought and pursuit into buying a car than finding a spouse. For a car they read reviews and look at things critically, but for love they are merely supposed to fall into it and marry without a thought. I believe it would help for you to be going somewhere yourself and then find a good complement to help you along the way. Increase your own market value and then choose among the best potential spouses. Have ambitions and work hard and be going places and women will be attracted to that. And if they are the right kind, they will want to be a help-meet for that. She will take joy in her role and desire to bear and raise your kids and serve your home. And so both of your personal desires will be met, even as you selflessly serve the other's goals.

Reactions: Like 1 | Edifying 1


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## arapahoepark (Nov 5, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Most people in the world get married and have kids. Yes, it is self-interest to desire marriage and for someone to love you, but you also desire to love and give your life to them as well. So it is mutual. A happy marriage increases the happiness and the life span of both husband and wife, studies show. And a husband's role is to sacrifice for his wife and kids. So is it really selfish to desire a selfless relationship with an object of your love?


Interesting way of putting it. Sounds good.


> Have ambitions and work hard and be going places and women will be attracted to that.


Check to number one. Number 2...is probably my downfall. What kind of places?


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## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> Interesting way of putting it. Sounds good.
> 
> Check to number one. Number 2...is probably my downfall. What kind of places?


Professional ambitions, status, ability to provide security. And the confidence that springs from these things. These are all attractive.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 5, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Professional ambitions, status, ability to provide security. And the confidence that springs from these things. These are all attractive.


Oh the places metaphor not necessarily literal places like bars


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## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> Oh the places metaphor not necessarily literal places like bars



Definitely never meet a woman in a bar or night club. That is almost as bad a place to find a wife as some churches.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## arapahoepark (Nov 5, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> ...That is almost as bad a place to find a wife as some churches.


Interesting how so?


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## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> Interesting how so?



Nothing worse than a woman with bad theology who isn't teachable. It would be better to have a new believer who is open to learning from you, than one who thinks she knows something and fights you on various points constantly instead of focusing on ordering her home and making it a haven of tranquility.

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## StephenMartyr (Nov 5, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Nothing worse than a woman with bad theology who isn't teachable. It would be better to have a new believer who is open to learning from you, than one who thinks she knows something and fights you on various points constantly instead of focusing on ordering her home and making it a haven of tranquility.



Pro 21:19 _It is_ better to dwell in the wilderness, than with a contentious and an angry woman.


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## wcf_linux (Nov 5, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> In essence, I am wondering if such desires are valid without a pietist coating.



You don't need a pietist framing to want something good and helpful from the hands of God's providence. If it's good and helpful, then wanting it is wanting a good thing. And no pietist coating can turn turn a bad idea into a good one.  Freedom in Christ is about more than drinking beer or smoking cigars, after all. It also means that we do not need to look for a "correct" pious framing or an inward confirmation of God's will. We can seek to act wisely and prudently, and trust in God's providence that He won't give you stones if you need bread.

If it's any comfort, I had a lot of similar struggles when I was single, and it was frustrating. There's no guarantees, but you'll be surprised how quickly one can go from being serially rejected to being on track to a good, godly marriage.

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## RJ Spencer (Nov 6, 2019)

Neither is wrong. The Apostle Paul makes it clear in I Corinthians 7:9 that marriage is something that we should seek, even if the reason is so that we don't fall in sin. "It is better to marry than to burn with passion."

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## Pergamum (Nov 6, 2019)

Trent,

If you desire marriage, do you want us to try to set you up on here and introduce you to folks?


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## ZackF (Nov 6, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Trent,
> 
> If you desire marriage, do you want us to try to set you up on here and introduce you to folks?


You eyeing someone in Malaysia for him?


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## Pergamum (Nov 6, 2019)

ZackF said:


> You eyeing someone in Malaysia for him?



Ha ha, several Indonesian singles want to marry an American Christian man and made me promise to try to ask around for them.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 6, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Trent,
> 
> If you desire marriage, do you want us to try to set you up on here and introduce you to folks?


Perg,
I really appreciate the offer, even perhaps on behalf of others. However, this thread wasn't necessarily about lamenting my condition (perhaps I came off that way lol). I was encouraged by the responses affirming one of the reasons I had in mind. Perhaps my overscrupulous conscience got the better of me but, as I read some articles and books on marriage they made it seem like there like be no room for desiring marriage if you had desired it for any other reason in addition to just serving (which is a good thing and a good reason among many). It seemed like an overreacting to the whole,finding someone who completed me narrative (which I am obviously not going for).


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## RJ Spencer (Nov 6, 2019)

arapahoepark said:


> Perg,
> I really appreciate the offer, even perhaps on behalf of others. However, this thread wasn't necessarily about lamenting my condition (perhaps I came off that way lol). I was encouraged by the responses affirming one of the reasons I had in mind. Perhaps my overscrupulous conscience got the better of me but, as I read some articles and books on marriage they made it seem like there like be no room for desiring marriage if you had desired it for any other reason in addition to just serving (which is a good thing and a good reason among many). It seemed like an overreacting to the whole,finding someone who completed me narrative (which I am obviously not going for).



The world does tend to focus to much on "love". But I have yet to find a single Bible verse that suggests that you must "love" your spouse before you marry them. If such a verse does exist I would love for someone to share it with me. Certainly we are called to love our spouse, but again I'm not sure if the world's definition of love is what the Bible has in mind. Ephesians 5:25 "...And gave Himself up for her."


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