# Is it Ever Acceptable for the Worship of the Church to Not Include Preaching?



## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 4, 2019)

Is ever acceptable for churches to hold services of worship without the preaching of God's word? I know of churches that have separate communion services without the word being preached. Many churches will have Christmas services that consist of nothing but Scripture reading and the singing of hymns. Can a church ever dispense with the preaching of God's Word in any service of worship? I tend to think not. But perhaps some of you here could bring more light to bear upon this question.

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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 4, 2019)

Given the Reformed emphasis on the preached word I would think it is omitted only as a matter of necessity (there is no minister to preach). Creating other things intentionally lacking preaching (worship services in all but the name) to get around the strict prescribed nature of God's worship, to give the people what they want, seems to me to speak for itself as far as how that should be viewed.

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## Pergamum (Dec 4, 2019)

Many churches have missionary presentations when their missionary returns. Sometimes this consists of a sermon and sometimes a general report. And I am glad they do. I believe women can be missionaries but should not preach, but I am glad I have heard many testimonies of them ministering to gender-segregated women in the Middle East. So I am glad some churches allow these times. 

When the Apostle Paul returned on his first journey he reported it all to the churches. What did that look like? 

Maybe the concept of a "worship service" nowadays is much different in America of 2019 than in First Century Palestine or Asia Minor. I sense it was more organic and familial and included testimonies and a meal, etc. Probably a long affair like in some Third World countries. We've now turned it more into a tightly scheduled lecture in the West following a rock concert in some cases.

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 4, 2019)

I've recently wondered something similar, about the balance between hearing God's Word and preaching. In most reformed churches it's about 10% Bible, 90% preaching.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 4, 2019)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> I've recently wondered something similar, about the balance between hearing God's Word and preaching. In most reformed churches it's about 10% Bible, 90% preaching.


Current and last church (which covers years since 1984) had/have significant reading of Scripture (more in my old church which did two chapters in each service and we got through the whole bible and the psalms twice very seven years; we get through two chapters in the evening in my current church and less in the morning with the focus on selections relevant to the sermon).

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## RJ Spencer (Dec 4, 2019)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> I've recently wondered something similar, about the balance between hearing God's Word and preaching. In most reformed churches it's about 10% Bible, 90% preaching.



I have found it to be quite the opposite, closer to 70% Bible, 30% preaching.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 4, 2019)

RJ Spencer said:


> I have found it to be quite the opposite, closer to 70% Bible, 30% preaching.


Really? The pastor spends more time reading the Bible than expounding it? How long are the average sermons you hear? I think I would prefer that balance moreso.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 4, 2019)

RJ Spencer said:


> I have found it to be quite the opposite, closer to 70% Bible, 30% preaching.





Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> Really? The pastor spends more time reading the Bible than expounding it? How long are the average sermons you hear? I think I would prefer that balance moreso.



We still have an hour sermon or maybe 45 even with the readings and everything else including communion. Usually a 90 minute morning service. Small congregation.


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## RJ Spencer (Dec 4, 2019)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> Really? The pastor spends more time reading the Bible than expounding it? How long are the average sermons you hear? I think I would prefer that balance moreso.



Throughout the service we have an OT scripture reading, usually between 8-10 verses and an NT Scripture reading again 8-10 verses. This is followed by the scripture that the pastor is going to preach on.


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## TylerRay (Dec 4, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Is ever acceptable for churches to hold services of worship without the preaching of God's word? I know of churches that have separate communion services without the word being preached. Many churches will have Christmas services that consist of nothing but Scripture reading and the singing of hymns. Can a church ever dispense with the preaching of God's Word in any service of worship? I tend to think not. But perhaps some of you here could bring more light to bear upon this question.


I can't imagine how we can expect to benefit from the sacrament without the Word accompanying it.

I have no problem with the church gathering to sing Psalms and read the Word, but if the church is assembled, why omit preaching? For the sake of a 'lessons and carols' tradition? Such traditions tend to foster sentimentality, but little more.

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## Edward (Dec 4, 2019)

NaphtaliPress said:


> We still have an hour sermon ... Small congregation.



I can understand that.


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## Minh (Dec 4, 2019)

Church historian J. Gonzalez would agree with the fact that the Early Church service emphasize more on the sacrament, particular the Lord's Supper, than preaching God's word unlike Protestant communion. But in my conviction with Scriptural sanction, I believe a church service should places more emphasize on expository preaching according to (2 Timothy 4:1-5). I don't think a service riddled with rituals will satisfy the spirituality of every believer in the church. That's not to say that the sacraments instituted by Christ should be discarded. But as a former attendee of the Roman Catholic mass, I believe the lack of preaching tend to lead men to carnal inclination rather spiritual. All church members should understand the will of God through His blessed words.


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## jwithnell (Dec 4, 2019)

TylerRay said:


> I can't imagine how we can expect to benefit from the sacrament without the Word accompanying it.
> 
> I have no problem with the church gathering to sing Psalms and read the Word, but if the church is assembled, why omit preaching? For the sake of a 'lessons and carols' tradition? Such traditions tend to foster sentimentality, but little more.


In the southern US, it used to be fairly common to have a circuit-riding preacher bring the sermon once a month and for the congregation to gather for praise and prayer on the other Sundays. I mention this in part because I wonder if we may come to a point where we may have to borrow from these older practices. This last century or so, we have been sitting "in high cotton" to borrow another southernism.

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## TylerRay (Dec 4, 2019)

jwithnell said:


> In the southern US, it used to be fairly common to have a circuit-riding preacher bring the sermon once a month and for the congregation to gather for praise and prayer on the other Sundays. I mention this in part because I wonder if we may come to a point where we may have to borrow from these older practices. This last century or so, we have been sitting "in high cotton" to borrow another southernism.


No doubt. In such circumstances, it's best for an elder or other fit person to read a printed sermon, in my opinion, though. That was frequently done in the past.

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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 4, 2019)

Edward said:


> I can understand that.


The few love the Word, the many less of it.

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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 5, 2019)

At our church, we read a chapter from the New Testament in morning worship and a chapter form the Old Testament in the evening. These readings run consecutively through the respective Testaments. The preaching is separate. But the preaching averages 45 minutes to an hour. We have a mid-week prayer meeting which is mostly taken up in prayer, but there also, it is preceded by a brief meditation on some portion of Scripture before we turn to God in prayer.

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## Steve Curtis (Dec 5, 2019)

RJ Spencer said:


> Throughout the service we have an OT scripture reading, usually between 8-10 verses and an NT Scripture reading again 8-10 verses. This is followed by the scripture that the pastor is going to preach on



Sorry... struggling with the math.
So the reading of around 20 verses plus the sermon text takes more than twice as long as the sermon itself?


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## Tom Hart (Dec 5, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Is ever acceptable for churches to hold services of worship without the preaching of God's word? I know of churches that have separate communion services without the word being preached. Many churches will have Christmas services that consist of nothing but Scripture reading and the singing of hymns. Can a church ever dispense with the preaching of God's Word in any service of worship?


Not in the ordinary Lord's Day worship, no, apart from in exceptional circumstances, such as the absence of a minister or a sudden sickness or death, etc. If Christians gather outside that stated time to sing psalms and pray, then that is fine (although a little bit of God's word could hardly hurt). But the corporate worship of the church must be centred around the word. When Christians forget that, they lose their moorings, so to speak.

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## James 1689 (Dec 5, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Is ever acceptable for churches to hold services of worship without the preaching of God's word?


We gather on Christmas eve to read the birth narrative, sing and pray. We close our Christmas eve service by sharing the gospel. This is, of course, outside of the gathering on the Lord's day. Never on a Lord's day would we neglect the preaching and teaching of God's word. As far as having just a cantata or some program on Sunday for Christmas is not an option scripture dictates how one is to worship on the Lord's day (John 4:24; Phil. 3:3; Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 14:15-16; and 2 John 2:19. The word must be preached and the ordinances are observed.


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## RJ Spencer (Dec 5, 2019)

kainos01 said:


> Sorry... struggling with the math.
> So the reading of around 20 verses plus the sermon text takes more than twice as long as the sermon itself?



Sorry, didn't realize we were talking about length of time... I thought we were talking about scripture that was read, verses scripture that was preached.


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## Steve Curtis (Dec 5, 2019)

RJ Spencer said:


> Sorry, didn't realize we were talking about length of time... I thought we were talking about scripture that was read, verses scripture that was preached



Gotcha. Maybe you're right, and I was interpreting the topic wrongly!


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## RJ Spencer (Dec 5, 2019)

kainos01 said:


> Gotcha. Maybe you're right, and I was interpreting the topic wrongly!



No, I think I was wrong. 



Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> Really? The pastor spends more time reading the Bible than expounding it? How long are the average sermons you hear? I think I would prefer that balance moreso.



He clearly said "time".


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## earl40 (Dec 5, 2019)

I know of a church in which every new year they have a special service where the book of Revelation is read though that service, and is not an "official service" as far as I know. Now I can imagine a church which received a letter from an apostle and the letter was read aloud on a Sunday morning officially. I know this may sound off but there is something about reading a large portion or entire book of scripture and allowing the words of God speak for themselves which in my opinion would be OK on some occasions. Come to think about it there are some great sermons in scripture which can stand alone.


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## ZackF (Dec 5, 2019)

earl40 said:


> I know of a church in which every new year they have a special service where the book of Revelation is read though that service, and is not an "official service" as far as I know. Now I can imagine a church which received a letter from an apostle and the letter was read aloud on a Sunday morning officially. I know this may sound off but there is something about reading a large portion or entire book of scripture and allowing the words of God speak for themselves which in my opinion would be OK on some occasions. Come to think about it there are some great sermons in scripture which can stand alone.


Jude comes to mind. Philemon.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 6, 2019)

earl40 said:


> I know of a church in which every new year they have a special service where the book of Revelation is read though that service, and is not an "official service" as far as I know.


Forgive me, but I would say, if a church has a service every year—it's official.


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## yeutter (Dec 6, 2019)

Anglican Churches historically had the Senior Warden, or someone who is a licensed Lay Reader read either the service of Morning Prayer, or Evening Prayer without a homily when no clergyman is present on a Lord's Day. I am told that Bishops sometimes license the lay readers to speak a Word of Exhortation, or licenses them to read Ryle, or one of the Church Fathers.


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## De Jager (Dec 6, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> At our church, we read a chapter from the New Testament in morning worship and a chapter form the Old Testament in the evening. These readings run consecutively through the respective Testaments. The preaching is separate. But the preaching averages 45 minutes to an hour. We have a mid-week prayer meeting which is mostly taken up in prayer, but there also, it is preceded by a brief meditation on some portion of Scripture before we turn to God in prayer.



This sounds wonderful. I love that you simply read through the word as well as do sermons.

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## Dachaser (Dec 6, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Is ever acceptable for churches to hold services of worship without the preaching of God's word? I know of churches that have separate communion services without the word being preached. Many churches will have Christmas services that consist of nothing but Scripture reading and the singing of hymns. Can a church ever dispense with the preaching of God's Word in any service of worship? I tend to think not. But perhaps some of you here could bring more light to bear upon this question.


We have Christmas Eve service, with songs of praise and prayers only.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 6, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> We have Christmas Eve service, with songs of praise and prayers only.



What is the rationale behind this? Why is there no preaching?


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## Dachaser (Dec 6, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> What is the rationale behind this? Why is there no preaching?


We sing mainly Christmas worship classics, so are proclaiming through them.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 6, 2019)

Ex Marine Covenanter posted this on facebook; seemed appropriate somehow to post here at this time.

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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 6, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> We sing mainly Christmas worship classics, so are proclaiming through them.


I would not agree that singing even doctrinally sound hymns is tantamount to preaching the Word. If it were, we could, in theory, dispense with preaching altogether so long as there remained a commitment to singing godly hymns. Praise and preaching are distinct elements of public worship. But preaching occupies the place of first importance in public worship. And that's why I puzzle at why otherwise godly churches would ever dispense with it if it were not necessary.

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## Dachaser (Dec 6, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> I would not agree that singing even doctrinally sound hymns is tantamount to preaching the Word. If it were, we could, in theory, dispense with preaching altogether so long as there remained a commitment to singing godly hymns. Praise and preaching are distinct elements of public worship. But preaching occupies the place of first importance in public worship. And that's why I puzzle at why otherwise godly churches would ever dispense with it if it were not necessary.


I agree with you that the primary emphasis should be the teaching of the doctrines of scriptures, but also would see this service as bring more of refective in nature.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 7, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> I agree with you that the primary emphasis should be the teaching of the doctrines of scriptures, but also would see this service as bring more of refective in nature.


Why do you place a service with the preaching of God's Word over against one that is "more reflective in nature"?

Can there be a service "more reflective in nature" than one that brings the light of God's word to bear upon the consciences of its hearers when coupled with the heat of a minister's godly example and earnestness of his appeal? What can be more reflective than that?

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## Pergamum (Dec 7, 2019)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Ex Marine Covenanter posted this on facebook; seemed appropriate somehow to post here at this time.


Remember, NOT torture. Only an "enhanced interrogation" technique. My oldest son asked to be water-boarded to know what it feels like, so I did it until he thrashed around a bit and sputtered once or twice, and he concluded that prisoners caught in the act of planting roadside bombs had a lot worse coming to them. Then he did me, too, but held it a little longer than after I tapped out. I still agreed with his assessment, though (after I puked a bit). All good fun.


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## Pergamum (Dec 7, 2019)

I would like to re-ask the question: What about missionary presentations during a service? Sometimes the church wants to know details of the field. A 5-minute verbal synopsis really does not do it.


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## earl40 (Dec 7, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I would like to re-ask the question: What about missionary presentations during a service? Sometimes the church wants to know details of the field. A 5-minute verbal synopsis really does not do it.



Why couldn't the missionary simply give the sermon as an example to what he does in the field?


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 7, 2019)

I think it needs to be before or after the service because as a report it is information and interrupts the worship of God. Our church has missionaries give such reports in SS or after the church dinner following the service. 


Pergamum said:


> I would like to re-ask the question: What about missionary presentations during a service? Sometimes the church wants to know details of the field. A 5-minute verbal synopsis really does not do it.

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## De Jager (Dec 7, 2019)

I don't have any problems with a missionary presentation as long as it does not replace the other elements of worship. For example I am not OK with replacing the sermon with a presentation. If a presentation is to happen, tack it on to the rest of the service. Of course, then churches would force their congregants to stay for up to *gasp* two hours....which is asking a lot when many need to go home to catch the 1 PM NFL kickoff.


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## Dachaser (Dec 7, 2019)

De Jager said:


> I don't have any problems with a missionary presentation as long as it does not replace the other elements of worship. For example I am not OK with replacing the sermon with a presentation. If a presentation is to happen, tack it on to the rest of the service. Of course, then churches would force their congregants to stay for up to *gasp* two hours....which is asking a lot when many need to go home to catch the 1 PM NFL kickoff.


Or to get home to the pot roast in the oven!


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## Pergamum (Dec 7, 2019)

earl40 said:


> Why couldn't the missionary simply give the sermon as an example to what he does in the field?



It can work that way, sometimes. But mostly doesn't work well. 

I believe every sermon ought to be expository and cover the passage directly on all points. So too much personal info might be distracting from the text. There would be a temptation to make the sermon about the missionary and not what the bible is saying about that passage. Short anecdotes might be possible to illustrate a point, but a full summary of one's efforts would be impossible in this format.


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## Pergamum (Dec 7, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> Or to get home to the pot roast in the oven!


That never works very well. Every single minute after the expected end of the service becomes a growing burden for the people. The missionary does not want to be that sort of burden on folks. Drive 3 hours to visit a church only to see impatience in the eyes of the folks. I don't think I'd agree to even commit to such a scenario knowing the nature of most US church goers. 

Using the Sunday School hour works well since folks already are used to this use of their time. Sunday School for mission info and sermon hour for a sermon.


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## Pergamum (Dec 7, 2019)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I think it needs to be before or after the service because as a report it is information and interrupts the worship of God. Our church has missionaries give such reports in SS or after the church dinner following the service.


The fact that you have a church dinner after the service sounds very cool! Tell me more.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 7, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> The fact that you have a church dinner after the service sounds very cool! Tell me more.


My current church has a monthly dinner folks bring food for, and the session usually schedules mission presentations then.

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## De Jager (Dec 7, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> That never works very well. Every single minute after the expected end of the service becomes a growing burden for the people. T*he missionary does not want to be that sort of burden on folks. Drive 3 hours to visit a church only to see impatience in the eyes of the folks.* I don't think I'd agree to even commit to such a scenario knowing the nature of most US church goers.
> 
> Using the Sunday School hour works well since folks already are used to this use of their time. Sunday School for mission info and sermon hour for a sermon.



Call them out on it. It's not your fault that people have their priorities messed up.


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## Pergamum (Dec 7, 2019)

De Jager said:


> Call them out on it. It's not your fault that people have their priorities messed up.


I only visit once every 4 years. Not a job I want (to call them out). AND, I totally get it...church gets LOOoong sometimes overseas, too, and I get hangry, too, and want to be dismissed unless the event was already expected to be long. If advance notice was giving to prep the people psychologically, then they might be able to bear it better. Maybe have a coffee break and lunch before-hand.


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## Phil D. (Dec 7, 2019)

NaphtaliPress said:


> seemed appropriate somehow to post here at this time.



Comrades in arms...


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## DSanchez (Dec 8, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I would like to re-ask the question: What about missionary presentations during a service? Sometimes the church wants to know details of the field. A 5-minute verbal synopsis really does not do it.


When we have had a missionary report, the report has always come at the end of the worship service.


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