# Thomas Brooks on postmillennialism and the restoration of the Jews



## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 8, 2019)

This post, admittedly, is somewhat controversial in nature. Among other things, Thomas Brooks argues for the Jews being restored to their own land:

... Now it is very observable that this great promise must be fulfilled when the Jews shall return and be settled in their own land. ...

For more, see Thomas Brooks on postmillennialism and the restoration of the Jews.

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## Dachaser (Dec 9, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> This post, admittedly, is somewhat controversial in nature. Among other things, Thomas Brooks argues for the Jews being restored to their own land:
> 
> ... Now it is very observable that this great promise must be fulfilled when the Jews shall return and be settled in their own land. ...
> 
> For more, see Thomas Brooks on postmillennialism and the restoration of the Jews.


Seems that many in the past held to some view of both postmil and Isreal restoration some fashion in end times.


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## Seeking_Thy_Kingdom (Dec 9, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> Seems that many in the past held to some view of both postmil and Isreal restoration some fashion in end times.


Many of the Covenanters and Puritans held to some form of historical premillennialism, but it differs greatly from the later forms. If I am not mistaken, what they understood by restoration of the Jews is a mass conversion of the Jewish people to Christianity, not the restoration of the political Jewish state or temple rebuilding ect. 
I am not fully convinced of their stance, but the more I read them the more I believe they had good Scriptural reason to believe in a mass conversion of the Jewish people prior to the return of Christ.


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## Dachaser (Dec 9, 2019)

Seeking_Thy_Kingdom said:


> Many of the Covenanters and Puritans held to some form of historical premillennialism, but it differs greatly from the later forms. If I am not mistaken, what they understood by restoration of the Jews is a mass conversion of the Jewish people to Christianity, not the restoration of the political Jewish state or temple rebuilding ect.
> I am not fully convinced of their stance, but the more I read them the more I believe they had good Scriptural reason to believe in a mass conversion of the Jewish people prior to the return of Christ.


I tend to see the Jews still living at time of second coming to have a massive conversion to their Messiah, in fulfillment of them grieving as for an only child.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 9, 2019)

Seeking_Thy_Kingdom said:


> Many of the Covenanters and Puritans held to some form of historical premillennialism, but it differs greatly from the later forms. If I am not mistaken, what they understood by restoration of the Jews is a mass conversion of the Jewish people to Christianity, not the restoration of the political Jewish state or temple rebuilding ect.



As David noted, both historic premillennialists and postmillennialists (or optimistic amillennialists - to use anachronistic labels) believed in a mass conversion of the Jews - and some of the latter group even held to a restoration of the Jews to the land. I was reading something similar to what I have quote from Thomas Brooks in the Scottish Covenanter, James Durham's commentary on Revelation. Still, I am not aware of any of the Covenanters who were historic premillennialists, though some English "Puritans" fell into that category. Though, as you say, it was a different beast from modern premillennialism.

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## Seeking_Thy_Kingdom (Dec 9, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> I tend to see the Jews still living at time of second coming to have a massive conversion to their Messiah, in fulfillment of them grieving as for an only child.


It is all quite possible, my eschatology is certainly not set in stone. 

Worse case scenario I go to the Lord with an incorrect end time doctrine, best case He returns today and settles the debates Himself. I pray for the latter.

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## Seeking_Thy_Kingdom (Dec 9, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> As David noted, both historic premillennialists and postmillennialists (or optimistic amillennialists - to use anachronistic labels) believed in a mass conversion of the Jews - and some of the latter group even held to a restoration of the Jews to the land. I was reading something similar to what I have quote from Thomas Brooks in the Scottish Covenanter, James Durham's commentary on Revelation. Still, I am not aware of any of the Covenanters who were historic premillennialists, though some English "Puritans" fell into that category. Though, as you say, it was a different beast from modern premillennialism.


Last week I read similar views in George Hutcheson’s commentary on Hosea 1. I hope they can convince me, I would prefer to have a more positive outlook on the future.


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## Dachaser (Dec 9, 2019)

Seeking_Thy_Kingdom said:


> Last week I read similar views in George Hutcheson’s commentary on Hosea 1. I hope they can convince me, I would prefer to have a more positive outlook on the future.


The Church in end times will be purified and will stand firm for sake of Christ, as there will be a clear division beeteen kingdom of God and of Satan in that time.


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## Dachaser (Dec 9, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> As David noted, both historic premillennialists and postmillennialists (or optimistic amillennialists - to use anachronistic labels) believed in a mass conversion of the Jews - and some of the latter group even held to a restoration of the Jews to the land. I was reading something similar to what I have quote from Thomas Brooks in the Scottish Covenanter, James Durham's commentary on Revelation. Still, I am not aware of any of the Covenanters who were historic premillennialists, though some English "Puritans" fell into that category. Though, as you say, it was a different beast from modern premillennialism.


Premils tend to see Romans 11 as describing that future turning to God of national Israel in end times, asthey will indeed say blessed is He that comes in name of the Lord then.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 10, 2019)

It seems to me that this "Zionism" has been a "feature" of millennialism generally, (pre or post) although one that is chiefly confined to various forms of dispensationalism today. That's not to say that all premils or postmils before the early-mid 20th Century believed it, but it does seem to have been a lot more common than people imagine today. The postmil of that day tended to be a different beast from the modern optimistic amil.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Dec 11, 2019)

On this I highly recommend David Brown's book "Christ's Second Coming: Will It Be premillennial?"

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## Pergamum (Dec 11, 2019)

How long in duration will the 2nd Coming even be? It sounds like Jesus comes back and destroys the man of sin with his mouth (II Thess.) and then there is not really all that much time before the Great Judgment happens. What else happens when He comes back?

If the Jews are supposed to mourn and repent at the Second Coming, it seems too late. Jesus is back and then just hands out judgment. No time to repent.

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## Dachaser (Dec 11, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> How long in duration will the 2nd Coming even be? It sounds like Jesus comes back and destroys the man of sin with his mouth (II Thess.) and then there is not really all that much time before the Great Judgment happens. What else happens when He comes back?
> 
> If the Jews are supposed to mourn and repent at the Second Coming, it seems too late. Jesus is back and then just hands out judgment. No time to repent.


DANIEL has that odd 45 extra days in his end time prophecy, maybe that is the extra time?


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## User20004000 (Dec 12, 2019)

Regarding restoration of the Jews, this piece by Lee Irons is, I think, quite fine. 

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/paulisra.html


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## Dachaser (Dec 12, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Be careful and make sure you have CORROBORATION texts to support it, otherwise you are no different from Mormons who baptize for the dead.


Daniel 12:11-12


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 12, 2019)

RWD said:


> Regarding restoration of the Jews, this piece by Lee Irons is, I think, quite fine.
> 
> http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/paulisra.html



You are citing Lee Irons, Ron? Who has hacked your account?

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## User20004000 (Dec 12, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> You are citing Lee Irons, Ron? Who has hacked your account?



I know, right?! I did consider qualifying my endorsement since it pertains strictly to the Israel of God. 

Teaching on WCF 19 on Sunday. That’ll balance things out a bit.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 12, 2019)

RWD said:


> Regarding restoration of the Jews, this piece by Lee Irons is, I think, quite fine.
> 
> http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/eschatology/paulisra.html


Can you give us a quick summary of what he says and why? What did you appreciate about what he wrote?


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## User20004000 (Dec 12, 2019)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Can you give us a quick summary of what he says and why? What did you appreciate about what he wrote?



I won’t do the full treatment justice in a brief statement but I like that he establishes up front that Israel can refer to different groups, including the church. Then his development of “all” is I think most noteworthy, in particular in how he relates it to the _fullness_ of the gentiles. Is “all Israel” the majority of a future Israel that comprises a mere _minority_ of the totality of ethnic Israel for the ages? That fulfills his promise to Israel? Feels like a let down. That would also be a very unusual connotation of _all_. Another interpretation (somewhat esoteric and under whelming) would suggest “all” is limited to all elect Jews. There’s been a partial hardening but all the elect Jews will be saved. But then what’s the relevance of the fullness of the Gentiles on that view? I recall him attributing that view to OP Robertson but the work Irons referenced I’m unfamiliar with. Robertson puts forth a view similar to Irons’ view in a book I do have. 

But if Israel is the elect among ethnic Jews and Gentiles, then “all” Israel really means _all_ Israel, which also comports with the fullness of the Gentiles. 

I think this works well with the _mystery_ in Ephesians 2 (the one new man), Jew and Gentile in the church. It also works well with the CoG, the single seed of Abraham, the children of promise and union with Christ making us the decedents of Abraham. (WLC 31; Genesis 17; Romans 9; Galatians 3)

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