# How Much Will the Market Bear?



## R. Scott Clark (Jun 9, 2007)

I need your help.

A group of scholars has formed an editorial board with a view to translating and publishing some classic Reformed theological texts from the 16th and 17th centuries.

We have proposals at a few publishers. 

I need to try to get an idea of what the market will bear.

We propose to publish these volumes (I'm being deliberately ambiguous about which texts -- assume for the sake of discussion that these are texts that are largely unavailable at present and would be of interest to those interested in CRT) for seminary students, pastors, scholars, and interested laity.

The question: would clothbound volumes at $40-45.00 be too expensive? I think the price would not include shipping. So the total cost could exceed $50.00

If $40-50 is too much, how much would you pay? 

Would you rather have these volumes in paper rather than cloth if it means keeping cost down, or would you rather have well-bound volumes (assuming that paper = less well bound) even if the cost is higher?

The grounds for my concern: 

1. I've had some comments that $17-$20.00 is "too expensive" for a the CJPM paperbound volume (at 465 pages!). I think such comments are, well, insane, but maybe they reflect a growing American resistance to books. I worry that if folk think CJPM is too expensive then what will they think of $40-50 volumes?

2. I sense that students, when they first arrive, seem somewhat reluctant to buy books. They seem to be trained in college to read everything online. They don't seem to buy a lot of used books.

3. I worry that we're entering post-literate age and that cost may be immaterial. 

It would help us if responses could focus primarily on the question of cost and secondarily on the truth or falsity of the grounds. Some reflection on the grounds will be useful. If the grounds are false, then the premise of the question is false and there's no cause for concern.

Thanks for your help.

rsc


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## crhoades (Jun 9, 2007)

My personal opinion. Cloth bound books that are well done. If you provide texts from Wollebius, Bucanus, Musculus, and other reformation, post reformation, and puritan people that are being translated for the first time, I would gladly pay the money. What I would also suggest is including a cd-rom with the books that include the text in .pdf file format. That would allow portability and searchability. If my memory serves me, the new Pelikan Creeds collection which runs $400+ does that. That does open up someone posting it online though. Hopefully the reformed world is more ethical than that. 

As another idea, you could always offer up the works as pre-pubs and solicit orders. RHB is doing that with Perkin's Works and Logos does that all the time with their software. If you listed out the contents of the books I would gladly pre-order one.


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 9, 2007)

Hi

Cloth bound hardbacks that are decently done, combined with the usefulnes of the contents, of course, I would expect to pay (and would pay) £25 a volume. That is approx $50 of course, as the dollar is so weak.

JH


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## NaphtaliPress (Jun 9, 2007)

We share the same frustrations Scott. I do not think that that is an unreasonable price given what the university presses get for that kind of thing. However, it does come down to how large a market there is for these kinds of works. The more you print the lower your each price will be. However, if you know you cannot sell more than say, for example, 1,000, that really dictates a higher retail price. What will be the average page count? That directly affects your cost the most. Traditionally mark up is 5 to 7 x the unit cost not counting freight. That allows for sufficient room for discounting for resellers and wholesalers.

You may want to get inventive and try to build up a subscription base of 100 or 200 folks who are committed to getting the series and will pay full retail or a higher price knowing they are underwriting part of the effort; print the subscribers in a list at the back. Kind of hearkening back to the old days of printing.

My ; hope it is useful. If you need to get specific but don't want to do so in an open forum; we can move this to the publisher's forum or take it offline.


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## ChristianTrader (Jun 9, 2007)

crhoades said:


> My personal opinion. Cloth bound books that are well done. If you provide texts from Wollebius, Bucanus, Musculus, and other reformation, post reformation, and puritan people that are being translated for the first time, I would gladly pay the money. What I would also suggest is including a cd-rom with the books that include the text in .pdf file format. That would allow portability and searchability. If my memory serves me, the new Pelikan Creeds collection which runs $400+ does that. That does open up someone posting it online though. Hopefully the reformed world is more ethical than that.



I don't think the posting of the book or portions on line would in fact hurt sales. It would probably help sales. I don't know of many people who would read a book online. An article, yeah, but not a book.

CT


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2007)

R. Scott Clark said:


> 1. I've had some comments that $17-$20.00 is "too expensive" for a the CJPM paperbound volume (at 465 pages!). I think such comments are, well, insane, but maybe they reflect a growing American resistance to books. I worry that if folk think CJPM is too expensive then what will they think of $40-50 volumes?



That is not too expensive for a paper bound. I prefer the lower price paperbound.



R. Scott Clark said:


> 2. I sense that students, when they first arrive, seem somewhat reluctant to buy books. They seem to be trained in college to read everything online. They don't seem to buy a lot of used books.



From my experience with the Cal State/CU system, it has little to do with the internet and everything to do with illiteracy in general. California public educated students simply do not know how to read, and therefore, do not like to read, and therefore do not like to buy books.



R. Scott Clark said:


> 3. I worry that we're entering post-literate age and that cost may be immaterial.



Are you asking this: Who in the world would buy these books and how much are they willing to pay? Then it would seem to me that those who want these kinds of books are limited in number but would be willing to pay top dollar. If these books are your cup of tea, then you are going to pay what you have to. (I spent $60 on Ussher's "Annals" when it first came out)

I for one cannot read a book online. My eyes simply cannot do it.


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## Guido's Brother (Jun 9, 2007)

R. Scott Clark said:


> I
> The question: would clothbound volumes at $40-45.00 be too expensive? I think the price would not include shipping. So the total cost could exceed $50.00



When I see what Brill and other European publishers charge for their volumes, this seems quite reasonable to me. I would gladly pay $50-60 USD for a scholarly edition of some volume by Olevianus (just to pick a name).


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## Kenneth_Murphy (Jun 9, 2007)

I don't think the price is too high. However, I would prefer a Logos format electronic copy than a printed copy. I just find electronic versions better than print versions regarding how I search and annotate things. I would still be willing to pay $40+ a volume.

I'm fairly new to buying theology books but I've bought a very large number of computer programming, database books at $50-100 each. I don't find the theology books to be of less value to me than the computer ones. I realize these types of books have a smaller market than mainstream books and will have a higher price.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 10, 2007)

Dr. Clark,

Another consideration to help the overall sales of such a work would be to consider to make the work available via Libronix or something like that.

It sounds like such material would make a superb reference source and I prefer electronic media for its searching ability. Since I move often, I have commentaries in this form vice moving a huge library every 2-3 years.

As for what I would pay. I would certainly pay up to $40 for a 460 page paperbound work (that's how much typical software "How To's" cost). I think I would be discouraged to buy a work if it cost more that $50.


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## Davidius (Jun 10, 2007)

We wouldn't have to worry about this if everyone would just learn Latin and German.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 10, 2007)

"We wouldn't have to worry about this if everyone would learn to speak Latin."

Signed,

The Medieval Church


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## toddpedlar (Jun 10, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> "We wouldn't have to worry about this if everyone would learn to speak Latin."
> 
> Signed,
> 
> The Medieval Church



Semper ubi sub ubi.

Seriously, $40-50 is, to me, perfectly reasonable for something like those works you propose, Scott, if they're nicely bound copies (which is what such works deserve).


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## Davidius (Jun 10, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> "We wouldn't have to worry about this if everyone would learn to speak Latin."
> 
> Signed,
> 
> The Medieval Church




oops


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## Philip A (Jun 10, 2007)

R. Scott Clark said:


> We propose to publish these volumes (I'm being deliberately ambiguous about which texts -- assume for the sake of discussion that these are texts that are largely unavailable at present and would be of interest to those interested in CRT) for seminary students, pastors, scholars, and interested laity.



If you're interested in publishing it, this layman is interested in paying $50 for it.



> 2. I sense that students, when they first arrive, seem somewhat reluctant to buy books. They seem to be trained in college to read everything online. They don't seem to buy a lot of used books.



And people wonder why some folks are drawn to the Federal (Re)Vision...



> 3. I worry that we're entering post-literate age and that cost may be immaterial.



I think this is exactly why you see people balk at the price for CJPM. It is indeed insane. $20 doesn't even cut into the food budget


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## D. Paul (Jun 10, 2007)

Scott, I forget exactly why and when you made this particular comment, but you recently stated that in order to obtain certain types of information one ought to be paying tuition. That has stuck with me when considering all the "free" material associated with so many Bible programs and online classes. 

It has already been mentioned as to what things could effect price, but observing the comparable priced garbage that is so wildly popular, no one is having advantage taken them by a fair price for something actually edifying.

I loved the clothbound / CD pdf format suggested. 

I think it says alot for you that you are even concerned for us over such things. And students made aware of actual value of the material just may sacrifice a few pizzas in order to obtain them. Those of us who are not students in the formal sense are still wiling to "pay tuition" for the best material.

Go for it!


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## R. Scott Clark (Jun 11, 2007)

*More responses please*

Dear All,

Thanks for the feedback thus far.

I'm glad for the expressions of willingness to support such a project.

I'm a little surprised that no one has indicated a preference for less expensive format. 

If you're reading this thread and haven't replied one way or another, it would help us if you would reply.

Obviously this is a very unscientific sample, but the larger the pool of responses the better able we will be able to judge how to proceed.

Thanks!

rsc


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## dannyhyde (Jun 11, 2007)

Scott,

You know me...I'll buy anything old at any price.


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## Ravens (Jun 11, 2007)

I would easily pay 50 or 60 dollars for a classic Reformation systematic theology or body of writings.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 11, 2007)

As an avid reader of Reformed literature and as one preparing to break into the publishing market (The Matthew Poole Project), I am conflicted. I want to see this sort of literature available to all, but I also recognize that the work that is put into such publications which is most worthy of reward. The translation of good Reformed literature into English is in many cases way overdue and much longed-for. 

The prices spoken of here seem to be reasonable, and the electronic text options that have been suggested are worth exploring too, because they could really increase the appeal and value of the product, in my opinion. 

May the Lord bless your labors, Dr. Clark. 

When I get a little money I buy books; and if any is left I buy food and clothes. -- Desiderius Erasmus


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## BuddyOfDavidClarkson (Jun 15, 2007)

Bring it on! I would not hesitate to purchase good puritan literature for that price. I just paid $75 a volume for the Edwards volumes from Yale, $50 a volume is a Kmart blue-light special.


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## sotzo (Jun 15, 2007)

I'd pay up to $50 for such works...I bet a good recent comparator would be the extent of sales on the translated version of Bavink's Reformed Dogmatics...they are hardbound with outstanding editor footnotes for further explanation where the Dutch meaning cannot be completely conveyed simply in one or two English words.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jun 16, 2007)

I guess I will be the lone voice of dissent. I go for content not the cover (you can always get it bound if you want later). So if I can get an awesome book for a lower price I'll bite. I'm on a limited budget and usually the only way I can afford the classics is to find them used or get them in paperback. But if the book is truly valuable to the ministry, and one which I will use often, then I'd fork over the money for the clothe bound.


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