# Cumberland Presbyterians



## reformedminister (May 2, 2009)

What can you tell me about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church? Are there any Cumberland Presbyterians on this board?


----------



## toddpedlar (May 2, 2009)

reformedminister said:


> What can you tell me about the Cumberland Presbyterian Church? Are there any Cumberland Presbyterians on this board?



My understanding (and it's probably flawed) is that the Cumberland Presbyterian Church was founded in about 1800 an attempt to "balance" between Calvinism and Arminianism by several ministers who were disturbed by the Calvinistic doctrine of predestination. They're known (or maybe were known) as "Free Will Presbyterians"... which means essentially that they do not accept the Westminster Standards, though they might hold to a governmental structure that is consistent with them.


----------



## toddpedlar (May 2, 2009)

Boy, I don't know... I couldn't join in ministry in such a situation (assuming he's on board with Cumberland distinctives) even if I was given 'free rein' as it were as he's suggested. What happens when the two of you are preaching contrary to one another, but are yoked together with the same leadership? What's his position on these things? If he's fully committed to the Westminster Standards (contrary to his denomination's position) then perhaps he needs to get out of the Cumberlands... ?


----------



## nicnap (May 2, 2009)

Will be praying for you guys.


----------



## Marrow Man (May 2, 2009)

This is anecdotal, but I've similar things about the Cumberland Presbyterians in rural KY. They tend to be more conservative and closer to Calvinistic beliefs that mainline Presbyterians, for instance. However, they also ordain women to the office of elder. And their denominational seminary (Memphis Theological Seminary) is pretty bad from what I hear (I know someone who went there).


----------



## BG (May 2, 2009)

T


----------



## yeutter (May 2, 2009)

*Historically Cumberlands are Arminian*

The Cumberland Presbyterian Church was founded by men who ranged from Arminian to Amyrauldian. In the early 20th Century most Cumberlands, including almost the entire Amyrauldian wing of that body, were reconciled to the old mainline northern Presbyterian Church. My understanding is those that stayed out and continued as Cumberlands were the almost all thoroughgoing Arminians. They have a confessional statement that speaks for itself,
Confession of Faith of the Cumberland Presbyterian Churches Confession


----------



## Michael Butterfield (May 2, 2009)

WDG said:


> They (CPC) are a mixed bag some good and some bad, much like the PCA and SBC.



I know the PCA has its problems (as does the SBC), brother, but I would hardly put them in the same category as the Cumberland Presbyterians. I am no defender of the PCA in general, but this is an apples and oranges comparison. They have serious issues as a denomination. They have Barthians teaching at the Seminary in Memphis not mention the fact that they do ordain women officers. Donald McKim used to teach at their seminary if that tells you anything (see his _How Karl Barth Changed My Mind_. Wipf & Stock, 1998). They are not very sound theologically. The Cumberlands have historically been Arminian and really formed, as one has already said, in the 1800’s. They were formed during the second “great awakening” if my memory serves me correctly. They also were formed out of the revivalistic “Camp Meetings” of that period of history. They can, in an ancillary way at least, be traced back to C. Finney himself since he was the agitator that contributed to their rejection of the biblical Calvinism of the WCF. They may even reject the WCF.


----------



## SolaScriptura (May 2, 2009)

Like in any denomination I'm sure that there are "conservative" congregations within the denomination. However, I'd have no part in a denomination that prided itself on being "socially progressive." 

If I recall, the Cumberland Presbyterians are mighty proud of the fact that they were among the first - and definitely the first from within the Reformed tradition - to ordain women to be pastors.


----------



## Marrow Man (May 2, 2009)

Andy, I almost forgot, but I do have one more anecdote to lay at your feet re Cumberland Presbyterians. A few years ago, the ARP was planting a church in Paducah, KY. I was chairing the committee overseeing church planting at the time. I received a call one day from a very friendly Cumberland pastor who was more than willing to offer space for the group (the CPC's fellowship hall). That was a tremendous help for them at the time. I later moved out of the presbytery for a year and then back in, and I was asked to be a part of the church's organization service (when it moved from mission status to official church status). They were no longer meeting at the CPC church, however, and I asked why. It seems they had a female elder who found out the ARP did not ordain women as pastor or elder, she demanded that that the relationship be severed, and she eventually got her way.

Once again, purely anecdotal. But be wary about such partnerships with denominations that you may differ with on many levels.


----------



## Scott1 (May 2, 2009)

WDG said:


> They (CPC) are a mixed bag some good and some bad, much like the PCA and SBC.



Hopefully this is not prideful, but I would take exception with the characterization of the PCA as "a mixed bag of some good and some bad." I'm much less familiar with the SBC but they have maintained a general biblical posture.

I don't think this is any way compares with the denomination you are speaking of, which was founded, apparently, upon a point of doctrinal compromise.

The PCA is confessional, Calvinist, covenant theology, high view of sacraments, does church discipline, and lives out covenant community. I would not describe it broadly as a mixture of "good and bad." (Not perfect, but very very good compared to a standard of a biblical, reformed denomination).


----------



## BG (May 2, 2009)

2


----------



## Edward (May 8, 2009)

Scott1 said:


> The PCA is confessional, Calvinist, covenant theology, high view of sacraments, does church discipline, and lives out covenant community. I would not describe it broadly as a mixture of "good and bad." (Not perfect, but very very good compared to a standard of a biblical, reformed denomination).



While it does practice discipline, it seems to do so reluctantly and only when prodded. 

I expect we'll be able to discern a clearer picture of the PCA after the upcoming General Assembly.


----------



## Kevin (May 8, 2009)

w said:


> 2



???????


----------



## Berean (May 8, 2009)

Kevin said:


> w said:
> 
> 
> > 2
> ...



An inactive user with no sig


----------



## DMcFadden (May 8, 2009)

Moderator's note: Some posters think better of their posts and delete them. Sometimes they even move into inactive status as well. Put the two together and . . .


----------

