# Ed Young Jr on the warpath



## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

SOUTHERN BAPTIST MEGAPASTOR ED YOUNG, JR VEHEMENTLY ATTACKS CALVINIST CHRISTIANS : Apprising Ministries

I ran across this video on Apprising Ministries web site. It is the second video on the page, make sure you scroll down to it. I would love to hear what my reformed brothers and sisters think about his comments? I don't know whether to laugh or get mad.


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## Marrow Man (Jun 27, 2012)

James White picks this apart on yesterday's The Dividing Line.

Today on a Very Important Radio Free Geneva: Ed Young Jr.'s Outrageous Rant Against Straw-Man Calvinism


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## Fly Caster (Jun 27, 2012)

SolaSaint said:


> SOUTHERN BAPTIST MEGAPASTOR ED YOUNG, JR VEHEMENTLY ATTACKS CALVINIST CHRISTIANS : Apprising Ministries
> 
> I ran across this video on Apprising Ministries web site. It is the second video on the page, make sure you scroll down to it. I would love to hear what my reformed brothers and sisters think about his comments? I don't know whether to laugh or get mad.



I think about his comments the same thing I think about seeing someone's two-year old throw a temper tantrum.

If Young were a serious pastor I would take him seriously and say that his comments should be engaged and refuted. However, seeing what he is doing in the rest of his preaching time (when he's not pitching a hissy-fit about Calvinism) makes it abundantly clear that he should never be mistaken for a serious preacher.


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## Unoriginalname (Jun 27, 2012)

Well if he actually goes to war with the Calvinists at least he can put his private jet to good use.


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## rookie (Jun 27, 2012)

Was that the video with the dancing fools? There's a video of him preaching against Calvinism on Youtube I watched last night.....with a few dancers ( or trying to anyway) on the streets. 

Then he was bragging about how many baptisms he did in a year....I can't even say "humble thyself, fellow servant". I don't see him as a servant, just a blatant heretic.


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## TheElk (Jun 27, 2012)

I've always wanted to be cool and hip.


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## arapahoepark (Jun 27, 2012)

my blood boils with someone like that. My biggest pet-peeve is the straw man fallacy being committed. They won't even bother to learn the other side, period.


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## Andrew P.C. (Jun 27, 2012)

Well, Coming from a southern baptist background, I'm not surprised that this guy is in the SBC. I know there are men within the SBC(few but there are) that preach the Gospel, but the majority of the SBC are theological and practical pelagians.


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## arapahoepark (Jun 27, 2012)

probably shouldn't have posted what I did so i edited...


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## Rich Koster (Jun 27, 2012)

arap said:


> Andrew P.C. said:
> 
> 
> > Well, Coming from a southern baptist background, I'm not surprised that this guy is in the SBC. I know there are men within the SBC(few but there are) that preach the Gospel, but the majority of the SBC are theological and practical pelagians.
> ...



When I was in the SBC, each congregation established the requirements and defined the practical duties of the Pastor, in their constitution.


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## Marrow Man (Jun 27, 2012)

Gentlemen, let's please not turn this into a "bash the SBC" thread.

Besides, EYjr does have an M.Div. from Southwest Baptist Theological Seminary.


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## Galatians220 (Jun 27, 2012)

Sylvester - Sufferin Succotash - YouTube


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

What really cracked me up was how he touted his pragmatic theology by claiming his church had baptized 2,600 last year while the local Reformed church only baptized 26. 

You know the Rick Warren approach, if it works it has to be right.


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## reaganmarsh (Jun 27, 2012)

Speaking as an SBC pastor, and not intending any maliciousness toward EYjr, I'm not aware of anyone in the SBC (except church-growth enthusiasts) who takes him seriously. 

Again, I mean no disrespect or ad hominen attack by my statement. I'm deeply concerned for the state of the SBC churches as a whole.


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## Rufus (Jun 27, 2012)

Andrew P.C. said:


> Well, Coming from a southern baptist background, I'm not surprised that this guy is in the SBC. I know there are men within the SBC(few but there are) that preach the Gospel, but the majority of the SBC are theological and practical pelagians.



The Classic Arminian Roger Olson said the same thing.


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## Constantlyreforming (Jun 27, 2012)

very entertaining and truthful MP3 there by Mr. White. I sincerely hope that Mr. Young takes up Mr. White's offer to debate.


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## LeeD (Jun 27, 2012)

Let's not forget that Ed Young Jr, "can talk over your head like that *snap*. He knows the greek, he's done theology, you can tell he knows that stuff."


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## LeeD (Jun 27, 2012)

Constantlyreforming said:


> very entertaining and truthful MP3 there by Mr. White. I sincerely hope that Mr. Young takes up Mr. White's offer to debate.



There is a better chance of me fitting into skinny jeans (or wanting to do so for that matter) than Ed Young agreeing to debate James White.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

LeeD said:


> Let's not forget that Ed Young Jr, "can talk over your head like that *snap*. He knows the greek, he's done theology, you can tell he knows that stuff."



 lol


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## Marrow Man (Jun 27, 2012)

LeeD said:


> Let's not forget that Ed Young Jr, "can talk over your head like that *snap*. He knows the greek, he's done theology, you can tell he knows that stuff."



I think Perry Noble said essentially the same thing about those who wanted to "go deeper" in the word.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 27, 2012)




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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 27, 2012)

LeeD said:


> Let's not forget that Ed Young Jr, "can talk over your head like that *snap*. He knows the greek, he's done theology, you can tell he knows that stuff."



In the immortal words of Westley from The Princess Bride, "Truly you have a dizzying intellect."


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## michaelspotts (Jun 27, 2012)

Amen!


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## Tbordow (Jun 27, 2012)

This has nothing to do with theology. He is beginning to be exposed. Even the local Dallas media is exposing him. He is clawing back because with more exposure he is in danger of losing his empire. If you have the time listen here: RADIO EXPOSE ON ED YOUNG JR AND LUXURY : Apprising Ministries


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## LeeD (Jun 27, 2012)

Marrow Man said:


> LeeD said:
> 
> 
> > Let's not forget that Ed Young Jr, "can talk over your head like that *snap*. He knows the greek, he's done theology, you can tell he knows that stuff."
> ...


 You are right Tim!

From the Christian Post: *Noble told pastors that "the person that always screams I want to go deeper" is "the ******* in the church."*


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## AThornquist (Jun 27, 2012)

Ed Young misrepresented me. I may be a 20-something that occasionally sits in my parents house in my underwear, but it is _not_ to write "negative ****"... unless of course what I am writing is true, in which case...


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## LeeD (Jun 27, 2012)

Bill The Baptist said:


> LeeD said:
> 
> 
> > Let's not forget that Ed Young Jr, "can talk over your head like that *snap*. He knows the greek, he's done theology, you can tell he knows that stuff."
> ...



Excellent quote Bill!


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## KMK (Jun 27, 2012)

I've asked this question before but didn't get much of a response. What is so great about the SBC that so many Baptists want to be a part of it? I ask because we are considering associating ourselves with other churches.


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## AThornquist (Jun 27, 2012)

LeeD said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > LeeD said:
> ...



Agreed!


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## hammondjones (Jun 27, 2012)

KMK said:


> I've asked this question before but didn't get much of a response. What is so great about the SBC that so many Baptists want to be a part of it? I ask because we are considering associating ourselves with other churches.



1. Cooperative Program
2.


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## Andres (Jun 27, 2012)

KMK said:


> I've asked this question before but didn't get much of a response. What is so great about the SBC that so many Baptists want to be a part of it? I ask because we are considering associating ourselves with other churches.



I think it's a numbers game. Everybody wants to be part of the numbers and the "in-crowd" and the SBC (at least here in the South) is pretty much the big man on campus.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

Again as said previously, my OP wasn't to spark a debate on the virtues of the SBC. I hope that will stop it.


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## Andres (Jun 27, 2012)

As for the Young video, I got about 4 mins in and I had to stop. That man is so ignorant of that which he speaks that I refuse to waste any more of my time on him.


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## Supersillymanable (Jun 27, 2012)

This is why Paul Washer so often points out that many pastors in the SBC are sending people straight to hell (just to clarify, he is part of the SBC).

2,600 in a year? If that's a genuine move of God, that's revival. But no one's talking about it. Why? Because it's not a genuine move of God. He's baptising people and assuring them they're going to heaven, to which thy go back and carry on their lives, right on the wide road to hell! They treat salvation like a flu shot. Pray your prayer, now you're definitely going to heaven. He should never have become a pastor. He should've spent more time reading the bible and less time preaching. If he was preaching the gospel properly, maybe he'd have 26 genuine converts to baptise in the year.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

Ignorant is a good word to use for Mr. Young.


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## arapahoepark (Jun 27, 2012)

I would like to apologize for my earlier statements, I didn't mean to bash the SBC. I got a little carried away because of Ed Young Jr boiling my blood. The SBC deserves a far better pastor than him.


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## JoannaV (Jun 27, 2012)

KMK said:


> I've asked this question before but didn't get much of a response. What is so great about the SBC that so many Baptists want to be a part of it? I ask because we are considering associating ourselves with other churches.



It's big. There are some good SBC churches and some ok SBC churches. An individual Baptist looking for a church may well investigate the SBC among others, especially in an area where there aren't many other options. A church is unlikely to disassociate themselves from the SBC unless an issue arises that forces them to evaluate their position. I'm not personally aware of many good Baptist churches who are actually seeking to join the SBC, but perhaps I am wrong??


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## Jeff Burns (Jun 27, 2012)

KMK said:


> I've asked this question before but didn't get much of a response. What is so great about the SBC that so many Baptists want to be a part of it? I ask because we are considering associating ourselves with other churches.



1. It's one of a very very few denominations to be on the brink of a full plunge into liberalism to have returned: think conservative resurgence of the late 1980s/ early 1990s. (Now, there are many churches that are still liberal, but the convention as a whole and the seminaries were turned around).

2. Cooperative program.

3. Seminary on the cheap. Being a member of a SBC church cuts your cost literally in half (or more) if you attend a SBC seminary. If you're a baptist church and are near a SBC seminary, you will be doing your seminarians a great service by associating formally w/ the SBC.

So, is that enough for me to be SBC? No. I'm glad I'm not in the SBC because of all of the nonsense and party politics involved in the convention. But, you asked for reasons why so many are, and I think that those are pretty widely held reasons.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

Mod, I'd say go ahead and close this thread since it is headed for an SBC opinion piece.


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## Gforce9 (Jun 27, 2012)

Andres said:


> As for the Young video, I got about 4 mins in and I had to stop. That man is so ignorant of that which he speaks that I refuse to waste any more of my time on him.



+1


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

I couldn't believe his arrogance, saying he could close down all the Dallas churches since his church is so talented and that he had the ability to do it. Then he rants about kknowing Greek and hebrew and theology and I don't think he quoted any scripture or expounded upon any scripture at all? This is really puzzling, and what is sadder is that thousands follow him.


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## J. Dean (Jun 27, 2012)

In the words of Jesus: Let them alone, they are blind leaders of the blind. 

I think that's quite applicable to Mr. Young in this case


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 27, 2012)

I think Paul warned Timothy about these kinds of "teachers", "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables." 2 Tim. 4:3-4


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## KMK (Jun 27, 2012)

I did not ask anyone to 'bash' the SBC but to praise its virtues. My post may have sounded sarcastic but it ordinarily gets a bad wrap on PB and I was just looking for positives. There must be some since it is so large.


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## Marrow Man (Jun 27, 2012)

SolaSaint said:


> I don't think he quoted any scripture or expounded upon any scripture at all



He did quote about 1/3 of John 3:16 and say "whosoever" about half a dozen times.


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Jun 27, 2012)

The whole video is shameful. What was amusing is that he kept referring to Calvinists as hip people with skinny jeans. That seems to touch a raw nerve with Mr Young! The entire 12 minutes were all about him- his ability, knowledge, beliefs, etc. For one so knowledgable perhaps he should use that knowledge and refute Calvinism from the Scripture. But then again he can't! Instead all he does is go on a rant and knock down straw men.


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## Zach (Jun 27, 2012)

This is pretty sickening and incredibly uninformed.


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## Gforce9 (Jun 27, 2012)

This seems like a good opportunity to give thanks for the faithful ministers many of us have at home and for those men who faithfully tend to and feed God's flock daily represented on our own PB.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 27, 2012)

Gforce9 said:


> This seems like a good opportunity to give thanks for the faithful ministers many of us have at home and for those men who faithfully tend to and feed God's flock daily represented on our own PB.


\A hearty AMEN Brother


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## reaganmarsh (Jun 28, 2012)

Don't forget:

4. Al Mohler, Tom Nettles, Tom Schreiner, & Shawn Wright, the 4 Calvinistic heavyweights at SBTS.

5. Tom Ascol and Founders.

6. The slowly-but-surely growing number of Calvinistic pastors. 

7. The slowly-but-surely increasing returnees to the Abstract of Principles (based on the Philadelphia/2LBC) & confessional theology. (I didn't say confessional practice [i.e., RPW]...that won't be for a while yet, I am guessing.)

There are problems in the SBC, undoubtedly. But the growing number of Gospel-minded men who are seeking to have expositional preaching from a Calvinistic framework is encouraging. 

Note that I am not defending our errors as a Convention, and I often grow weary of the tightropes one must walk amongst some in SBC circles. More to the point of our present thread, I also often wish for some option to see denominational discipline upon pastors such as EYjr. 



Jeff Burns said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > I've asked this question before but didn't get much of a response. What is so great about the SBC that so many Baptists want to be a part of it? I ask because we are considering associating ourselves with other churches.
> ...


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## rookie (Jun 28, 2012)

Gforce9 said:


> This seems like a good opportunity to give thanks for the faithful ministers many of us have at home and for those men who faithfully tend to and feed God's flock daily represented on our own PB.



I was going to say this, but you beat me to it....Sadly, I am starting to think that the solid teachers are in the minority....I pray daily for the leaders in my church, PB, and my favorite preachers. That God would keep them faithful and strong in the opposition. 

That's right, I said it, that God would keep them faithful, not themselves, in their own abilities........that was my rant against Mr. Young, our preachers don't have talent, they have God....


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## DMcFadden (Jun 28, 2012)

Not being SBC, I have never followed Rev. Young very much. However, after watching the YouTube tour of his mansion (his "crib") and his hard to describe adolescent patter about all of the rooms done by a fellow 50-something . . . hmmmmmm. I think I'll pass on any of his theological explanations.


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## Jeff Burns (Jun 28, 2012)

reaganmarsh said:


> Don't forget:
> 
> 4. Al Mohler, Tom Nettles, Tom Schreiner, & Shawn Wright, the 4 Calvinistic heavyweights at SBTS.
> 
> ...



We could also add:

8. The Great Commission Resurgence: the self titled reemphasis on missions and missionary sending of SEBTS president Danny Akin.

9. The history of Calvinistic thought amongst the founders of the SBC (great little book out there called "Southern Baptists and the Doctrine of Election" provides a ton of source quotes of early SBCers who upheld the doctrines of grace).

10. A nationally respected name "SBC" that stands for conservative values. In fact, the SBC recently entertained a name change in order to be less regionally perceived, and ultimately opted against it b/c of the reputation that goes along w/ the name Southern Baptist.

11. Appointment of a black president of the convention, Fred Luther: significant and commendable for an organization once stigmatized by racist undertones.

11. Pot Luck dinners. Seriously, who wouldn't want to be a part those! Yum!!

I grew up in the SBC and until last spring (2011) have always been a member of an SBC church. I also attended an SBC seminary. Would I go back? Probably not. But, there's a lot of good going on there. Unfortunately there's also a lot of bad (EYJr. rant for example, and the recent document attacking Calvinism signed by many big names in the SBC, including the president of SWBTS, little to no discernment regarding what makes it on the shelves at their Lifeway bookstores, etc. etc.).


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 28, 2012)

Ed Young may technically be in the SBC, but it is clear from this video who he really looks up to. Ed Young and Joel Osteen - YouTube


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## Curt (Jun 28, 2012)

OK, I just got around to watching that video (actually I watched the first one, too). I got a whole six minutes in before giving it up. A number of observations.

1. He prefers Joel Osteen to Reformed Theology. (I should put "case closed" after that one).
2. In my 30 years as a pastor, I NEVER wanted to be in Osteen's auditorium, or one like it. (These two are from the first video).
3. I have never work skinny jeans.
4. I HAVE evangelized. At my last church the first 22 evening sermons were on Evangelism. I taught it and I led people in doing it.
5. I DO know when election began - "For he chose us in him before the creation of the world." (Eph. 1:4).
6. I have never portrayed myself as cool. For crying out loud, we used hymnals!
7. I have a clue what being Reformed is about. Ed Young does not.

OK, enough for now. Go back to your cool salons, etc.


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## KMK (Jun 28, 2012)

Jeff Burns said:


> 10. A nationally respected name "SBC" that stands for conservative values. In fact, the SBC recently entertained a name change in order to be less regionally perceived, and ultimately opted against it b/c of the reputation that goes along w/ the name Southern Baptist.



By this do you mean 'social' values or 'theological' values?


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## Jeff Burns (Jun 28, 2012)

KMK said:


> Jeff Burns said:
> 
> 
> > 10. A nationally respected name "SBC" that stands for conservative values. In fact, the SBC recently entertained a name change in order to be less regionally perceived, and ultimately opted against it b/c of the reputation that goes along w/ the name Southern Baptist.
> ...



Good question... I would be comfortable saying primarily social values and to a lesser degree theological. 

Let me explain:

On the social front, Southern Baptists are known for being pro-life, pro-traditional definitions of marriage, against social ills like substance abuse, gambling, etc. ("I don't smoke, drink, or chew, and I don't go w/ girls who do.") and are largely republican. So, they would tend to favor positions espoused by the GOP. However, I'm sure amongst many SB's there's a growing contingency of Tea Party folk and independant Ron Paul types. This is obviously painting with a very broad brush, but I think it's accurate overall.

On the theological front, Southern Baptists have been historically commited to the inerrancy of Scripture, especially after the conservative resurgence. They may not practice the sufficiency of Scripture as we here on the PB would like, but at least they're not practicing deconstructionist hermeneutics, by and large. They also would be largely for orthodox understandings of things like the atonement (vicarious, penal substitution), salvation (even if they distort it w/ the sinners prayer and decisionism), the reality of miracles in the NT (contra Barth and the German rationalists), the list could go on and on. As was mentioned above, the Abstract of Prinicples is a very good document and many SBC churches claim to hold to it. 

So, as I was saying in pt. 10, the name SBC carries some weight. You may have a wide range of experiences from church to church, but if you're out of town on vacation or something like that, you can have a pretty good idea of what you'll get at the local SBC church. 

Because the convention has no ability to control individual churches, there's a lot of room for VAST differences b/w local churches. Which is why you can have the likes of Ed Young Jr. ranting against Calvinism in one church and Tom Ascol championing it in another. Or on a different plane, someone like Rick Warren building a mega mega church based on seeker-driven models, and someone like my former pastor laboring in obscurity in a tiny rented building to a handful of saints w/o losing hope because he is trusting in the Sovereignty of God to build His church as He sees best.

I think this is the biggest problem w/ the SBC. There's no consistency and no real desire for it. Even at the seminary I attended, there were professors who taught Calvinism in their Systematic Theology classes and others who taught Molinism. I had one professor say in class that the God of 5 point Calvinism was no better than the God of Islam. I was furious... I had another Systematic professor who was a self professed 5 point Calvinist. How they worked on the same faculty, I have no idea. BTW, the man who made the blasphemous statement was the Dean of Faculty, so he's no novice. 

Anyways, that's a lot more than you asked about... Hopefully it's helpful.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 28, 2012)

Jeff,

Very well said. Although I like how each church is autonomous in the SBC, it does make for a hodgepodge of beliefs and that has obviously resulted in Pastors like Ed Young Jr. I guess within the SBC we will have to take the bad with the good (individual sovereignty or autonomy).


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## extolHIM (Jun 28, 2012)

My wife and I used to teach kindergarten Sunday School at the Southern Baptist church we used to attend in OKC (before Christ saved me ironically), and one weekend about 6 or 7 years ago our church paid for all the teachers to go down to Fellowship Baptist Church for the weekend to check out their kids program...which was huge. Everything else aside, I remember two very strange things...when we were walking in the building, we were the only ones walking into the building with Bibles in our hands! I kid you not! Not one other person walking in the building had a Bible with them. Anyways, the other thing I recall was that the service was about 30-45 minutes total, and the "sermon" was nothing but fluff and motivation and with only one scripture passage cited. I walked out amazed, since our pastor was an expository preacher who was very in-depth in all of his sermons. Even then, as deceived non-believer who thought he was a true believer, I knew that this was nothing but a joke. So needless to say, this video does not surprise me.


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## toddpedlar (Jun 29, 2012)

My contact with SBC-folk is very sparse... but seriously is there any reason to take this bozo with any degree of seriousness? Does he wield that much influence in the SBC? Why??


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## KMK (Jun 29, 2012)

Jeff Burns said:


> On the social front, Southern Baptists are known for being pro-life, pro-traditional definitions of marriage, against social ills like substance abuse, gambling, etc. ("I don't smoke, drink, or chew, and I don't go w/ girls who do.") and are largely republican. So, they would tend to favor positions espoused by the GOP. However, I'm sure amongst many SB's there's a growing contingency of Tea Party folk and independant Ron Paul types. This is obviously painting with a very broad brush, but I think it's accurate overall.
> 
> On the theological front, Southern Baptists have been historically commited to the inerrancy of Scripture, especially after the conservative resurgence. They may not practice the sufficiency of Scripture as we here on the PB would like, but at least they're not practicing deconstructionist hermeneutics, by and large. They also would be largely for orthodox understandings of things like the atonement (vicarious, penal substitution), salvation (even if they distort it w/ the sinners prayer and decisionism), the reality of miracles in the NT (contra Barth and the German rationalists), the list could go on and on. As was mentioned above, the Abstract of Prinicples is a very good document and many SBC churches claim to hold to it.



From what you say here, it sounds like SBC would at least be preferred over something like the ABC.


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## SolaSaint (Jun 29, 2012)

extolHIM said:


> My wife and I used to teach kindergarten Sunday School at the Southern Baptist church we used to attend in OKC (before Christ saved me ironically), and one weekend about 6 or 7 years ago our church paid for all the teachers to go down to Fellowship Baptist Church for the weekend to check out their kids program...which was huge. Everything else aside, I remember two very strange things...when we were walking in the building, we were the only ones walking into the building with Bibles in our hands! I kid you not! Not one other person walking in the building had a Bible with them. Anyways, the other thing I recall was that the service was about 30-45 minutes total, and the "sermon" was nothing but fluff and motivation and with only one scripture passage cited. I walked out amazed, since our pastor was an expository preacher who was very in-depth in all of his sermons. Even then, as deceived non-believer who thought he was a true believer, I knew that this was nothing but a joke. So needless to say, this video does not surprise me.



Matt,

I've seen this type of church within the SBC, it is a disease called Seeker sensative or Purpose Driven gone wild. I complained to my Pastor when we left his seeker church and one of the items was that people had quit carrying their bibles with them. He chastised me for that statement since every scriptural referrence was on the Big screen during his sermons, no need to carry a bible anymore. Needless to say Ed Young Jr was a hero of his. lol


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## SolaSaint (Jun 29, 2012)

The Museum of Idolatry: Inside Ed Young Jr.'s "Parsonage"

Check out Ed's crib (parsonage).


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## Marrow Man (Jun 29, 2012)

toddpedlar said:


> but seriously is there any reason to take this bozo with any degree of seriousness? Does he wield that much influence in the SBC? Why??



He has a very big church, and his father has a very big church. If you add the membership of those two churches together, it's far larger than the denomination I belong to (but if you took the actual number of people who attend and who haven't disappeared into oblivion, that might be a different story).


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 29, 2012)

Ed Young is a hardcore pragmatist, and the only thing that matters to hardcore pragmatists are numbers. That is why he loves Joel Osteen, because no one has numbers like Osteen. Doctrine doesn't matter (as long as it isn't Calvinism) ecclessiology doesn't matter, members actually showing up for church doesn't matter, as long as you can fill a big auditorium and baptize a bunch of people (regardless if they ever come back or not) then you are a success in these people's mind. I used to complain that a former SBC president had on his official bio that his church had 16,000 members with an average attendance of 6,000. No one seemed to have a problem with the fact that the man had 10,000 members who didn't show up on Sunday. Mind-boggling. Some of these SBC megachurches are becoming like fitness clubs, if everyone who was a member actually showed up, the fire dept. would close the place down.


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## Marrow Man (Jun 29, 2012)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Some of these SBC megachurches are becoming like fitness clubs, if everyone who was a member actually showed up, the fire dept. would close the place down.


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## cajunhillbilly53 (Jun 29, 2012)

I have never heard ed young jr preach, but a lot of people at the church I attend- Lakepoint- like him. They also like Olsteen. I consider him to border on heresy. So I guess I would have to lump ed young in there too. Give me a Lloyd-Jones any day. Or a Charles Spurgeon. Sweet nectar of the Word.


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## "William The Baptist" (Jun 29, 2012)

I watched both videos in their entirety, but I could feel the frustration rising the entire time! I thought it was ironic that he was bashing reformed people while saying how wrong it was to bash him. I actually was ready to put this on FB with my own two cents under it refuting all his silly attacks but then something dawned on me...

The _vast_ majority of my friends are not reformed and a good chunk of them like Osteen, Jakes and the like. And harder, still, is that my family (who are 100% adamantly opposed to calvinism and probably never heard "reformed theology") would LOVE a video like that and agree with everything he said (even though, ironically, they don't like Osteen, but would like him better than Calvin). So I figured it would be way too controversial to post, I try and hold back my "newness" and impulse to boil over about bad theology, it tends to get me in trouble. Instead, I am humbled to pray.


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## Pilgrim (Jun 29, 2012)

Jeff Burns said:


> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget:
> ...



*12. A rather pervasive mentality, especially on Southern home turf, that unless you're SBC, you're either a liberal, a fundamentalist or some other kind of extremist. *

Not being Southern Baptist for those who grew up in it (even strongly Calvinistic men) is just unthinkable. In many parts of the South, (Deep South especially) the only kind of predominately white Baptist churches are SBC, IFBx (think Hyles-Anderson types) or Landmark Missionary Baptists. Also, in many areas, the only kind of nondenominational church is charismatic so you risk being lumped in with them if you don't have Baptist on the door. There are independent "Sovereign Grace" Baptist churches here and there, but they are usually rural, small, and tend to be lumped in with fundamentalists, (if not Primitive Baptists) even by many SBC Calvinists.


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## DMcFadden (Jun 29, 2012)

SolaSaint said:


> The Museum of Idolatry: Inside Ed Young Jr.'s "Parsonage"
> 
> Check out Ed's crib (parsonage).



Crib? "Away in the manger, no crib for his bed, Ed Young's got a mansion, he says it's his crib."


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## ZackF (Jun 29, 2012)

I need to credit someone but I can't place a name. Maybe James White. I remember learning from White or someone else that many men from an early stage in their career or even life are vaccinated against Calvinism. This stern indoctrination often comes from a close mentor. They are told firmly to "stay away from Calvinism. Be fearful of Calvinism...don't even go there." These people are nearly impenetrable to the Doctrines of Grace. This goes for this silly Young fellow to even respectable Arminian pastors like the late gentlemanly Adrian Rodgers. Nothing short of grace of course but will change their mind. It has to come from a person having an "aha" moment. Debates, assigned readings, and dialogues with the vaccinated are futile. Unless they approach you with questions and sincere inquiry from the inside out...forget it. In a similiar vein, Marxism has the same quality in its pure communist form or its more watered down liberal varieties. People who are raised for years to see themselves as entitled to their basic needs and even luxurious wants or be envious of those with more have a hard time shaking that. They have been instructed to despise those with more. They see state coercion and the political process as the answer, always. I have family members who think this way. It is an unshakeable mindset. Arguing with them is futile unless....they change their tone and start questioning their beliefs themselves.


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## tommyb (Jul 1, 2012)

In 2 Peter chapter 2 Peter tells us false teachers use sensuality to corrupt the flock and are motivated by greed. Paging Ed Young, paging Ed Young.


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