# Did The Wesleys Use Tavern Music?



## JM (Dec 19, 2007)

I get emails from the FBIS Mailing List and found this in my mail this morning:



> Did the Wesleys really use drinking song tunes
> for their hymns? This drinking tune myth pervades
> our denomination and has attained the status of
> truth in many people's minds, including pastors,
> ...



Republished December 19, 2007 (first published 
November 24, 2002) (David Cloud, Fundamental 
Baptist Information Service, P.O. Box 610368, 
Port Huron, MI 48061, 866-295-4143, 
[email protected]

I always thought they did use drinking tunes for their hymns.

jm


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## raekwon (Dec 19, 2007)

I wonder if it matters.


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## BobVigneault (Dec 19, 2007)

As much as it hurts to say this, I believe David Cloud is absolutely right on this. It's an oft repeated legend that is fun to spread but has no historical basis. However, Handel did borrow the Hallelujah Chorus from "Yes, We Have No Bananas".  Dance banana, dance!


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## Poimen (Dec 19, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> As much as it hurts to say this, I believe David Cloud is absolutely right on this



I feel your pain.


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 19, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> As much as it hurts to say this, I believe David Cloud is absolutely right on this. It's an oft repeated legend that is fun to spread but has no historical basis. However, Handel did borrow the Hallelujah Chorus from "Yes, We Have No Bananas".  Dance banana, dance!


 You're a mess!


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 19, 2007)

Isaac Watts has been accused of same. I'm no fan of Watts, but I question that said accusation has any basis in fact.

Someone I know personally continues to make this same claim against _Scottish Psalter_ tunes in spite of the fact that I've told him at least twice otherwise.


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## Poimen (Dec 19, 2007)

jaybird0827 said:


> Someone I know personally continues to make this same claim against _Scottish Psalter_ tunes in spite of the fact that I've told him at least twice otherwise.



Why do you continually hound me online and mock my every word?


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## JBaldwin (Dec 19, 2007)

jaybird0827 said:


> Isaac Watts has been accused of same. I'm no fan of Watts, but I question that said accusation has any basis in fact.
> 
> Someone I know personally continues to make this same claim against _Scottish Psalter_ tunes in spite of the fact that I've told him at least twice otherwise.



Martin Luther has been accused of the same thing as well. Does anyone know of the validity of that statement? 

Here's my  on the subject of using popular tunes for hymns. 

It is always easier for a congregation to sing a song to a familiar tune, however, if the tune tends to bring up the words to the popular song, then it shouldn't be used in church.


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 19, 2007)

Poimen said:


> jaybird0827 said:
> 
> 
> > Someone I know personally continues to make this same claim against _Scottish Psalter_ tunes in spite of the fact that I've told him at least twice otherwise.
> ...


 
Huh???

Person I'm referring to is offline and not eligible for PB membership.


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## Poimen (Dec 19, 2007)

jaybird0827 said:


> Poimen said:
> 
> 
> > jaybird0827 said:
> ...



Sorry; just my insane sense of humour coming through. I should have put a smiley face behind that statement.


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 19, 2007)

JBaldwin said:


> jaybird0827 said:
> 
> 
> > Isaac Watts has been accused of same. I'm no fan of Watts, but I question that said accusation has any basis in fact.
> ...


 


I could not agree with you on that more. An example is singing to the tune Materna (O Beautiful for Spacious Skies) - that drives me to distraction.


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## BobVigneault (Dec 19, 2007)

"Of the melodies to Luther’s 37 chorales, 15 were composed by Luther himself, 13 came from Latin hymns of Latin service music, 4 were derived from German religious folk songs, 2 had originally been religious pilgrims’ songs, 2 are of unknown origin, and one came directly from a secular folk song." (Data compiled from Squire, pp. 446-447; Leupold, ed., Liturgy and Hymns; and Strodach, ed., Works of Martin Luther, VI)

The one from a secular folk song, he later changed because he didn't like the fact that it recalled the secular folk song.


This myth is perpetuated by those who want to use CCM in worship.

Here you can see where this misconception (lie) can lead.


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## Calvibaptist (Dec 19, 2007)

Bar Tunes = Tavern Songs! *snicker, snicker* As a musician, I have to laugh. Right before I cry, because I have heard this thing about Luther more than once.


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## JBaldwin (Dec 19, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> "Of the melodies to Luther’s 37 chorales, 15 were composed by Luther himself, 13 came from Latin hymns of Latin service music, 4 were derived from German religious folk songs, 2 had originally been religious pilgrims’ songs, 2 are of unknown origin, and one came directly from a secular folk song." (Data compiled from Squire, pp. 446-447; Leupold, ed., Liturgy and Hymns; and Strodach, ed., Works of Martin Luther, VI)
> 
> The one from a secular folk song, he later changed because he didn't like the fact that it recalled the secular folk song.
> 
> ...



Thanks for clearing up that little myth. 

Beatles in worship? That's way out there.


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## raekwon (Dec 19, 2007)

I've been in a church in which a U2 song was used in worship.

Granted, that song was "40", which is based on a good chunk of Psalm 40.


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## ReformationArt (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm the program director for our Presbytery's youth camp. Last year the counselors sang Amazing Grace to the tune of the theme song from Gilligan's Island!!!!


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## raekwon (Dec 19, 2007)

I'm a fan of _Amazing Grace_ sung to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun". The Blind Boys of Alabama did a fantastic recording of that a few years back.


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