# Are Evening Services or Two Lord's Day Services Required?



## ChristopherPaul (Feb 26, 2008)

Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?


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## ChristopherPaul (Feb 26, 2008)

Rev. Hyde posted a good article by PCA Pastor: Dr. Robert S. Rayburn at his website.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 26, 2008)

I don't know if you could make a hard and fast rule that it is an absolute MUST, but I do think it is reflective of a particular congregation's desire to sanctify the Lord's Day. Evening worship is fast becoming a OPC distinctive. Most of those I know of that don't have it do not have their own building and rent a building or space for the a.m. services. I've found that many PCA churches do not have evening worship. I believe evening worship was once commonplace among Baptists as well but it is becoming rarer. As indicated by the Rayburn article, it was once common among all Protestants.

The three leading factors in the abandonment of evening worship are probably liberalism, church growth gurus that said it was too much and that other activities were more important, and the dispensational hermeneutic that teaches that the Fourth Commandment is abrogated and that there is no continuing Sabbath obligation in this age.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 26, 2008)

Let's Keep Our Sunday Evening Worship


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## ChristopherPaul (Feb 26, 2008)

*Why not make a hard and fast rule?*

Considering the points Rayburn makes, can we make a hard and fast rule?

From Rayburn's article:



> First, provision was made in the liturgical regulation of the tabernacle and temple for both morning and evening sacrifices and these were explicitly required to be continued on the Sabbath day (Numbers 28:1-10).





> Second, Psalm 92, which is explicitly identified as a psalm “For the Sabbath Day,” reads, “It is good…to proclaim your love in the morning and your faithfulness at night” (cf. Ps. 134:1).





> Third, in the New Testament we have record of evening worship on the Christian Sabbath, that is Sunday (Acts 20:7) and we have it in a book that very clearly intends to set before us facts representative of the life of early Christianity. Interestingly, what might be called the first Sunday “service” of the new epoch took place at night when the Lord on Easter evening met his disciples gathered in a room in Jerusalem.





> Fourth, just as morning has a special significance in the history of salvation (e.g. our Savior rose from the dead in the morning), so many events have sanctified the evening (e.g. the Savior’s birth, the transfiguration, the struggle in Gethsemane, etc.). There is something appropriate in the church worshipping at the time that recollects such sacred and important events.





> Fifth, there is the consistent witness of the Christian tradition, from early Christianity, to English Puritanism and Scottish Presbyterianism’s “afternoon” service, to Anglican evensong.





> Sixth, there are a variety of practical considerations that, together, strongly recommend the practice of an evening worship service on the Sabbath Day.


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## FenderPriest (Feb 26, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> The three leading factors in the abandonment of evening worship are probably liberalism, church growth gurus that said it was too much and that other activities were more important, and the dispensational hermeneutic that teaches that the Fourth Commandment is abrogated and that there is no continuing Sabbath obligation in this age.



I think you're slightly reaching here to say that all churches who do not have an evening service are more than likely not doing so because of your reasons above. Or are you not trying to make an over generalization? My apologies if you're not and I'm reading you incorrectly. My congregation does not have an evening service. I can only guess, but I imagine that it's largely due to the church's history of renting a facility for the first 16 years of its existence here, and thus not developing a church habit of it. We're not liberal, not church growth gurus with more important activities, nor dispensationalists. I imagine my pastor's reason (if there's had to be one) was to allow for fellowship between believers into the evenings, and thereby sanctifying the day unto the Lord.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 26, 2008)

FenderPriest said:


> Pilgrim said:
> 
> 
> > The three leading factors in the abandonment of evening worship are probably liberalism, church growth gurus that said it was too much and that other activities were more important, and the dispensational hermeneutic that teaches that the Fourth Commandment is abrogated and that there is no continuing Sabbath obligation in this age.
> ...



Note that I wrote that the three *leading* factors are.... In the same post I also noted the difficulties of congregations that use rented facilities. Evening worship is also difficult if not impossible for churches that have large portions of the congregation driving significant distances, making it impractical to return for evening worship. Some have solved this by having a fellowship meal followed by an afternoon service. 

Something else worth noting is that Blue Laws (Sunday closing) were far more common when evening worship was prevalent. Now in most areas Sunday is the 2nd busiest shopping day of the week.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 26, 2008)

http://www.puritanboard.com/182718-post4.html


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## FenderPriest (Feb 26, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> FenderPriest said:
> 
> 
> > Pilgrim said:
> ...



Right-o! Thanks for the clarification brother.


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## Kevin (Feb 26, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?



The simple answer is no. There may be cultural, missional, denominational, historical, or any number of reasons to have an evening service. The command of scripture in not however one of them, In my humble opinion.

I do not find Rayburns use of the temple sacrifices that compelling. Others that I have read recently are using a variation on that argument as well. The trouble (in my opinion) is hermeneutical. How do you decide what part of the temple service crosses the divide? 

If evening services are needed based n this example, then why does that same example not require daily services? At least in this regard the Anglicans are consistent. They cite the temple service & draw the logical conclusion; morning & evening, daily services.


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## AV1611 (Feb 26, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?



Yes, see psalm 92.


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## raekwon (Feb 26, 2008)

Man, I guess churches whose *only* Sunday worship service is during the evening are ahead of the curve! ;-)


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## Amazing Grace (Feb 26, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?




Perhpas we need a new Sir Thomas Gates to enforce this..

The Laws of Virginia (1610-1611)


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## JBaldwin (Feb 26, 2008)

Our church does not have evening services, and I don't expect they will, because Sunday evenings are reserved for family worship and small group Bible study.


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## Gloria (Feb 26, 2008)

My pastor's paper on this topic:

A Rationale for Evening Worship on the Lord's Day


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## Zenas (Feb 26, 2008)

My congregation can't. On an avg. Sunday, we have 40-60 people in worship in the morning. No one would show up in the evening except me and the pastor's family and some of the elder's families. We just don't have the people to have a Sunday night worship service and the people we do have wouldn't show up.

I myself would love something like that, or have some sort of fellowship function, but, again, no one would come. I tell you what though, when Wed. night fellowship rolls around, and your 5 person family can eat all they want for 12 dollars, folks are showing up from all over the place to eat.

People will show for food, but to worship the Sovereign God? We have better things to do.


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## kvanlaan (Feb 26, 2008)

I know the argument is over whether or not two services are _required_ but I am wondering why we wouldn't _want_ to sit under the teaching of the Word as often as possible, _especially_ on the Lord's Day.

I like Josh's idea. To me, a service, lunch, and another service with fellowship afterwards sounds great. When I lived in Oklahoma, it was almost an hour's drive to a mildly reformed church, and then back to Shawnee. Spending two hours in the car on Sunday for a short service was of course worth the drive, but I would have loved _more_.



> I myself would love something like that, or have some sort of fellowship function, but, again, no one would come. I tell you what though, when Wed. night fellowship rolls around, and your 5 person family can eat all they want for 12 dollars, folks are showing up from all over the place to eat.


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## dannyhyde (Feb 26, 2008)

Hello brothers,

I think you will find the document below of interest. At a usual Classis meeting of Classis Southwest U.S. of the URCNA, we deal with questions of advice from our congregations. At one meeting one of the consistories presented several questions for our advice that members of their congregation asked them. A small committee was formed that then reported on how Classis should advise the consistory to answer their members.

Below is that report:

May 8, 2006

Dear fathers and brothers, 

Your committee met on May 8, 2006 in San Diego, CA to discuss the matters brought to Classis Phoenix (Minutes of Classis, January 2006, 11.N, O) and referred to this committee. The committee answers the questions as follows:

*1.	What are the Biblical grounds for two worship services*
The New Testament requires us to worship on the Lord’s Day; however, there is no direct command to have multiple worship services. Nevertheless, we believe that there is a clear “morning and evening” pattern in Scripture. This is seen in the order of creation, as God has structured time in terms of evenings and mornings (Gen 1-2); and in the order of redemption as evidenced as in the morning and evening sacrifice and prayers (Num 28; Ps 92). It is not unreasonable, therefore, to believe that this pattern carries over into the worship of the New Testament church.

*2.	What is the history of the second service, how has its practices evolved through the generations, and is our current practice consistent with other Reformed and Presbyterian denominations or peculiar to us? *
Rather than laying out the history and evolution of the second service in this report, this committee would refer Pasadena URC to the article “The Second Sunday Service in the early Dutch Reformed Tradition” by Donald Sinnema in the _Calvin Theological Journal_, vol. 32, 1997, pp.298–333. 

Other Reformed denominations, such as the Canadian Reformed Churches, Protestant Reformed Churches, Orthodox Christian Reformed Churches, Free Reformed Churches, etc., require and practice by mandate of their Church Order meeting for worship twice on the Lord’s Day. Some denominations such as the Orthodox Presbyterian Church, while not requiring two services on the Lord’s Day by their church order, do generally maintain the practice of two services on the Lord’s Day.

*3.	Are there any documents readily available which explain this practice in a pastoral and convincing manner?*
While several articles were read, which were pastoral in nature, none were particularly convincing. 

*4.	Do you believe that this matter is serious enough to warrant discipline of members who fail to attend a second service?*
Without in any way diminishing the importance of the second service or giving license not to attend, we believe that members should be encouraged and expected to attend both services but the application of discipline should be handled on a case by case basis by the local Consistory in the most pastoral manner.

*5.	Is the goal simply additional instruction in the doctrines of the Church through the Catechism and Confessions, or an additional opportunity for worship, or both?*
We believe that the second service fulfills both of these goals (re: URCNA CO Articles 37 and 40). 

This committee recommends, therefore, that these answers be referred to Pasadena URC and that the committee be disbanded. 

Respectfully submitted, 

Rev. Daniel R. Hyde, chairman
Rev. Michael G. Brown, recorder 
Rev. Movses Janbazian
Rev. Bradd L. Nymeyer


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## Pergamum (Feb 27, 2008)

Wow, according to the OPC article two services is even good for your marriage!


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## BobVigneault (Feb 27, 2008)

If nothing else, the evening service is a great way of identifying who the core group in the church is. These are usually the folks who show up for work days and take an active role in the building's up keep and spiritual outreach.

That is just my observation.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Feb 27, 2008)

BobVigneault said:


> If nothing else, the evening service is a great way of identifying who the core group in the church is. These are usually the folks who show up for work days and take an active role in the building's up keep and spiritual outreach.
> 
> That is just my observation.



IME that is accurate. What else have people to do on the Lord's Day that is so important (apart from works of necessity and mercy) that they cannot be bothered to attend worship in the evening?

The fact that people are shunning the means of grace is not a good sign.


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## Zenas (Feb 27, 2008)

We have a small core group then.


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## ReformedWretch (Feb 27, 2008)

I like Josh's idea as well. Church being an all day learning, praising, and fellowship thing sounds awesome to me! Too often attending services is made to feel like a chore or obligation than it is something wonderful to look forward to. I am often the last person to leave Church hoping to talk to as many as I can. Sadly most hit the door quickly.


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## dannyhyde (Feb 27, 2008)

Zenas said:


> My congregation can't. On an avg. Sunday, we have 40-60 people in worship in the morning. No one would show up in the evening except me and the pastor's family and some of the elder's families.



As the Synod of Dort said in the face of the same situation in the 17th century, even if only the pastor and his family showed up, the Reformed churches were required to call two services as an example to the flock.


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## BobVigneault (Feb 27, 2008)

If I was there, I'd hang wid'joo Adam.

I have the unenviable challenge each Sunday of bringing Sunday School opening exercises to order out of the cacophony of conversations and fellowship in the basement hall. I have fifteen minutes to get the prelims done and send the students on their way.

Sounds easy but oh the agony of having to tell the folks that they have to end there fellowship time. They are so happy to see each other after a week and catch up and share burdens and pray and cry with each other. I have to use a big ol bell to get their attention. Inside I just want to let them keep going, so each week with great reluctance as soon as the clock says eleven I ring that awful bell.

Every now and then we get a late start because I'll forget I'm the administrator and I'll be deep in a wonderful conversation with a brother.

I hear you Adam, it's a special time indeed.


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## tcalbrecht (Feb 27, 2008)

Kevin said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
> 
> 
> > Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?
> ...



Actually, under the old covenant system it was evening/morning, not morning and evening. It we follow the logic we should be meeting on Saturday evening *and *Sunday morning.


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## Barnpreacher (Feb 27, 2008)

BobVigneault said:


> If nothing else, the evening service is a great way of identifying who the core group in the church is. These are usually the folks who show up for work days and take an active role in the building's up keep and spiritual outreach.
> 
> That is just my observation.



Absolutely, Bob. It usually surprises people when I tell them that about 70% of our congregation come back on Sunday nights and Wednesday nights. Of course we are a small congregation (about 35-40 on Sunday mornings), but the fact that most of them make up the core group of our church is a pretty rare thing in this day and age.


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## SueS (Feb 27, 2008)

I think that having all day fellowship-style services, at least once a month, is a wonderful idea, especially in these days of outrageous gas prices. We drive 16 miles one way which doesn't seem like much but it ends up being 64 miles each Sunday. I heard someone mention this concept after this past Sunday evening's service - we have enough people coming a goodly distance that it might be worth investigating.


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## tcalbrecht (Feb 27, 2008)

AV1611 said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
> 
> 
> > Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?
> ...



And do we use "an instrument of ten strings, On the lute, And on the harp, With harmonious sound"?

Is Psalm 92 really intended to identify specific patterns for public Sabbath day worship, or, rather, was it written as a song to be sung on the sabbath reminding us of our obligation every day, and God's faithfulness to us every day? 

Isn’t verse 2 really just a expression of Hebrew poetic parallelism?



> To declare Your lovingkindness in the morning, And Your faithfulness every night,



Or is it intended to say we only regard God’s lovingkindness in the morning versus His faithfulness in the evening?

It's just not clear to me how far one can take the imagery in that passage as regulating public Sabbath worship.


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## KMK (Feb 27, 2008)

houseparent said:


> I like Josh's idea as well. Church being an all day learning, praising, and fellowship thing sounds awesome to me! Too often attending services is made to feel like a chore or obligation than it is something wonderful to look forward to.* I am often the last person to leave Church hoping to talk to as many as I can. Sadly most hit the door quickly.*



Hhhmmmm...

I hope there is not a connection between the two, brother!


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## Pilgrim (Feb 27, 2008)

There's an old saying that goes something like this. You can tell how popular a church is by the attendance Sunday morning, how popular a preacher is by the attendance Sunday evening and how popular Jesus is by the attendance for Wednesday prayer meeting.


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## Herald (Feb 27, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Can a case be made that all churches should have at least two services every Lord's day?



Chris, a case can be made, sure.


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