# Stephen Charnock on God's Existence



## cih1355 (Jun 16, 2010)

Here is a quote from Charnock's book, _The Existence and Attributes of God_. This is found on pages 51-52.

"Every skeptic, One that doubts whether there be anything real or no in the world, that counts everything an appearance, must necessarily own a first cause. They cannot reasonably doubt, but that there is some first cause which makes the things appear so to them. They cannot be the cause of their own appearance. For as nothing can have a being from itself, so nothing can appear by itself and its own force. Nothing can be and not be at the same time. But that which is not and yet seems to be ; if it be the cause why it seems to be what it is not, it may be said to be and not to be. But certainly such persons must think themselves to exist. If they do not, they cannot think ; and if they do exist, they must have some cause of that existence. So that which way soever we turn ourselves, we must in reason own a first cause of the world. Well then might the Psalmist term an atheist a fool, that disowns a God against his own reason. Without owning a God as the first cause of the world, no man can give any tolerable or satisfactory account of the world to his own reason. And this first cause,

1. Must necessarily exist. It is necessary that He by whom all things are, should be before all things, and nothing before him.p And if nothing be before him, he comes not from any other ; and then he always was, and without beginning. He is from himself; not that he once was not, but because he hath not his existence from another, and therefore of necessity he did exist from all eternity. Nothing can make itself, or bring itself into being ; therefore there must be some being which hath no cause, that depends upon no other, never was produced by any other, but was what he is from eternity, and cannot be otherwlse ; and is not what he is by will, but nature, necessarily existing, and always existing without any capa* city or possibility ever not to be.

2. Must be infinitely perfect. Since man knows he is an imperfect being, he must suppose the perfections he wants are seated in some other being which hath limited him, and upon which he depends. Whatsoever we conceive of excellency or perfection, must be in God. For we can conceive no perfection but what God hath given us a power to conceive. And he that gave us a power to conceive a transcendent perfection above whatever we saw or heard of, hath much more in himself; else he could not give us such a conception."

Charnock is saying that there is a first cause and this first cause must be God. God must necessarily exist and He must be infinitely perfect. Charnock says that the perfections that man wants are seated in some other being. How do we know that those perfections actually exist? Is it because God necessarily exists and God by definition has those perfections?


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## jwright82 (Jun 16, 2010)

There are two ways of looking at this. 

1. Is that we as creatures of God have innate knowledge of Him and ourselves and so we readily know of our imperfections and His perfections. 
2. That their is no God and we are simply making Him in a perfected image of ourselves. So our desire to want these perfections is realized in some fantasy being we dreamed up. Nietzche would be along this line of thought. 

I would go with the first one but I don't give much credence to his argument.


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