# The Pastor's Vehicle



## Parakaleo

I'm probably like many recently-ordained pastors. I drive the same little car that was passed down from my father and have been driving for over a decade. I've driven it throughout college, my first few jobs, seminary, and it's seen its share of scrapes and dents. Now that I'm the pastor of a small church, my plan was to drive it a couple more years until I could maybe afford something that looks like a sensible man's car (and not a high school kid's car). 

My plans have been changed since I was rear-ended a few weeks ago. I am being offered a generous amount by the insurance company to replace my vehicle. While the amount is greater than I would have valued my old car, it is still not enough to buy a presentable replacement. I have thought about taking a lesser amount from the insurance company and continuing to drive my old car (crunched-in bumper and all), but my father-in-law (OPC ruling elder) made the point to me that a pastor driving around in an old, beat-up car could easily give the impression that they take no pride in maintaining what God has given them or in how they present themselves to others.

I thought this would be a good PB question. Is the pastor of a church to exhibit a certain level of self-respect in keeping with his high calling, to include driving a presentable car? What importance would you place upon it if a pastor drove around a wreck of a car? I know that the flesh can so easily be coddled in thinking through these things.


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## Cymro

The past preachers here in Wales did not mind how the horse looked ,as long as it had the "horsepower"to cope with the mountains in their itinerant ministry. Neither were the scattered congregations enamoured with its looks, as long as the Minister was amongst them to break the bread of life.


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## SolaScriptura

I recommend respectable without being ostentatious.

To the extent that you're a worker who deserves his wages, you have the right to pick whatever kind of vehicle you can responsibly afford. But to the extent that you are an example to the flock, one of the things the flock stands in continual need of reminder is that identity, hope, and significance are not bound up in things. As such, a simple yet reliable, well-maintained, and comfortable vehicle helps to send that message.


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## Inactiver user19912

I think that another thing to consider is this: What kinds of vehicles do the rest of your congregation drive? I only bring this up because if we, without thinking it through, have a vehicle "too ostentatious" (good description of what I mean, Ben), then we're projecting a "better than you" image, one that we'd rather not send, no doubt. It'd wind up being something that we could've avoided with a little planning.

I've seen this happen and I learned the lesson of trying to do all I can to not send a message with my actions/choices without considering how people might receive it. The pastor had a brand new Mercedes and the congregation was mostly retired teachers and engineers driving moderately priced vehicles. It spoke to a tone-deafness from which my wife and I learned a powerful lesson. Now, should it be this complicated? Probably not, but that's the nature of the beast, sometimes.


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## Jack K

My pastor drives an old, beat up car with peeling paint even though he could afford a better one (and bought a nice new mini-van for his wife to drive). I don't believe anyone thinks the beat-up car reflects poorly on his office. He's just a thrifty guy who likes his old car. No big deal.


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## Edward

A nice, used, Toyota or Honda might be a good choice (make sure the airbags have been replaced, if necessary.) Some used Hyundais might also be on your list. You could probably step up a level in vehicle if you let everyone know you got it used and your old car got totaled. 

Other than that, I agree with Mr. Lacy - generally stay within the average of what's in the church parking lot Sunday mornings. And you might loop in some of your elders - one of them might be able to put you on to a good deal.


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## DMcFadden

Have you considered asking your elders for their advice? They would have a bead on how your actions would be interpreted within the congregation.


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## ZackF

DMcFadden said:


> Have you considered asking your elders for their advice? They would have a bead on how your actions would be interpreted within the congregation.



Whether the 'Vette should be a convertible or hardtop?


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## Vox Oculi

As a poor person, I recommend not higher than $20-40,000 if new, and not higher than $20,000 used (if under 50,000 miles).

Alternatively, ask your congregation to pick a car for you, or donate one to you.


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## jwithnell

You've received excellent advice. I'd add an additional few thoughts. You have significant safety issues in driving a vehicle that has been significantly damaged, not to mention one made prior to many safety improvements. Also, you have potential problems with reliability and the chance of having to make a snap decision regarding either getting another car or making an expensive repair at the worst possible time? (At least, in my experience, that's when cars break down, even if you're paranoid about maintenance, which I suspect you are given your story.)


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## VictorBravo

Vox Oculi said:


> As a poor person, I recommend not higher than $20-40,000 if new, and not higher than $20,000 used (if under 50,000 miles).



I'm still in the dark ages, I guess. I can't get used to such car prices.

I suppose realistically I'm upper middle class these days, and I've never spent more than $8,000 on a vehicle for myself. We did spend more than twice that amount on a car for my wife, and I've probably spent $2000 in specialty Audi tools to maintain that beauty, but so far we've never gotten to that 20k level.

jwithnell has a good point. Wrecked cars just go downhill faster unless you are a gearhead willing to fiddle with it. These days you can get car reports on anything you'd want to buy. Make sure the new used car hasn't been wrecked or in a flood, too.


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## Vox Oculi

VictorBravo said:


> I'm still in the dark ages, I guess. I can't get used to such car prices.



Truly, I am too. I was making a generous allowance, basing it off of car commercials. I've driven 2 cars in my life, one was at no cost and the other was $1500. But it's hard to find that outside of family, even on Kelly BlueBook


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## JimmyH

Two years ago I bought a 2005 Ford Focus ZX3 with 68,000 miles on it for $3,300. Had to fix the AC and put tires on it, but it has been great, and real good mileage too. So if you go used find something with low miles. Buddy of mine just bought some kind of Toyota coupé for $13,000 brand new. Last years model so he says it was a good deal. Anyway ...... I too equate the new car prices with insanity. Used to be what a house cost not so long ago.


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## Vox Oculi

On that note, the way I understood the middle class, I figured:

lower: poverty to $45,000
middle: $45,000 to $120,000
upper: $120,000 to $250,000

roughly. Lower middle class doesn't need handouts but can't afford new cars for every family member. Middle middle class can afford to take more than one airplane vacation per year. Upper middle class can own more than one house, and yachts.

Sound about right?


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## matt01

Vox Oculi said:


> On that note, the way I understood the middle class, I figured:
> 
> lower: poverty to $45,000
> middle: $45,000 to $120,000
> upper: $120,000 to $250,000
> 
> roughly. Lower middle class doesn't need handouts but can't afford new cars for every family member. Middle middle class can afford to take more than one airplane vacation per year. Upper middle class can own more than one house, and yachts.
> 
> Sound about right?



Not really, though I have nothing on which to base this conclusion. If "lower middle class" is poverty to 45k, is there no longer a "lower class"? Yay, the war on poverty was successful.


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## Edward

jwithnell said:


> You have significant safety issues in driving a vehicle that has been significantly damaged, not to mention one made prior to many safety improvements.



Not just safety. I got a car repaired after a run-in with an 18 wheeler. (The car was only 16 years old at the time.) Not many weeks later, the main bearing went out on the engine. (Can't prove it was related, but things did get jarred pretty hard). Of course, I'd already used the money from the trucking company for the repairs, so the new car was all out of pocket, and had to be bought fairly quickly, which didn't leave much time for shopping or hardball negotiation. 

Just some anecdotal support for Ms. Withnell's advice.


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## Edward

Vox Oculi said:


> On that note, the way I understood the middle class, I figured:
> 
> lower: poverty to $45,000
> middle: $45,000 to $120,000
> upper: $120,000 to $250,000
> 
> roughly. Lower middle class doesn't need handouts but can't afford new cars for every family member. Middle middle class can afford to take more than one airplane vacation per year. Upper middle class can own more than one house, and yachts.
> 
> Sound about right?



You aren't going to own multiple houses and a yacht on $120k a year unless you have inherited money, or are way underwater on debt. Or years of saving while living frugally. 

Certainly, the numbers for a middle class are going to be higher in California than they are in Mississippi, and generally higher in metro areas than rural.


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## VictorBravo

Edward said:


> Certainly, the numbers for a middle class are going to be higher in California than they are in Mississippi, and generally higher in metro areas than rural.



Right. Median income in my county is around $44k. I know a family of 5 that does pretty well on $25k here. They are models for wise spending. 




Vox Oculi said:


> Upper middle class can own more than one house, and yachts.



We have a chicken house and a manufactured home, so that fits. And I used to have a yacht (circa 1993--$250 in materials):


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## Vox Oculi

Edward said:


> You aren't going to own multiple houses and a yacht on $120k a year unless you have inherited money, or are way underwater on debt. Or years of saving while living frugally.



Well, then, at least I got right that these income ranges are withing the "middle class" range, and not "upper class."


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## Jonathan David Foster

BMW E30 M3

It is the best example of having dominion over creation in an automobile.


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## Parakaleo

Very glad for all the insights here. We (my dear wife and I) have decided to take the full payout, remit my old car, and attempt to be a single-car family for a time. We could have never done this before my call to pastor a church, because I had to drive so much and so often for seminary classes and Army duties. Now, my call is my sole responsibility outside the home. We live less than 10 minutes from the church. My wife is a homeschooling mother to our five small children. Our two cars are rarely (if ever) away from the house at the same time as it is, so I think we can make it work. The savings (especially in auto insurance, which is very high in Louisiana) will be a welcome relief.

Really, there could not have been a better way for this to take place than as a result of this minor accident. Praise the Lord for His hidden blessings at every turn!


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## VictorBravo

Parakaleo said:


> Really, there could not have been a better way for this to take place than as a result of this minor accident. Praise the Lord for His hidden blessings at every turn!



Sounds like a wise decision. May God continue to bless and keep you all, Pastor.


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## DMcFadden

In my first church, I "drove" a Honda Express to and from the office.

During our childrearing years, it was a Dodge Grand Caravan with 5 kids.

Now my wife and I share a Hyundai Sonata.


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## ZackF

VictorBravo said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> Certainly, the numbers for a middle class are going to be higher in California than they are in Mississippi, and generally higher in metro areas than rural.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right. Median income in my county is around $44k. I know a family of 5 that does pretty well on $25k here. They are models for wise spending.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Vox Oculi said:
> 
> 
> 
> Upper middle class can own more than one house, and yachts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We have a chicken house and a manufactured home, so that fits. And I used to have a yacht (circa 1993--$250 in materials):
Click to expand...


'93? Ya sure it's not '88 or '89 cuz it looks than you've got a mullet going there?


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## VictorBravo

ZackF said:


> '93? Ya sure it's not '88 or '89 cuz it looks than you've got a mullet going there?



Mullet? Heh. I didn't know what that was until I joined the PB.

I think that is wind styling my (then) incipient pattern baldness.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

My wife and I have lived with one car for the last six years since I came on the field in Ellisville. The manse is about two blocks from the church and I rent a car to go to presbytery. 

In God's providence we have not had a trouble with being a one car family yet. It has limited me a bit, but most everything in town (post office, grocery store, coffee shop) is within walking distance of the church.


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## Pergamum

I believe a major priority above the type or look of a car is that we as Christians ought to stay out of debt. This includes a 10-year car payment of thousands of dollars each year.


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## Vox Oculi

_Very_ valid point, Pergamum.


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## Parakaleo

Pergamum, you are very right about that. I have no intention of saddling myself with debt in order to purchase a fine car.

I was talking to a church member just this afternoon about the high price of auto insurance. Here in Louisiana, it can be thousands of dollars a year to insure a vehicle that is not even worth what you pay in premiums. I know that insurance is to protect you from far more than the loss of your own vehicle, but it is staggering to think of the costs we pay in insurance.



> In my first church, I "drove" a Honda Express to and from the office.



An electric bicycle is looking more and more attractive...


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## jwithnell

Just curious. What makes insurance do expensive?


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## Parakaleo

They say that this area in Louisiana has a problem with uninsured drivers. Therefore, those that do comply with the law and insure, must pay all the more.


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## jwithnell

That and high theft rates made insurance high when living in California's central valley. Sigh.


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## Edward

jwithnell said:


> What makes insurance do expensive?



In addition to the above - Louisiana is also a direct action state. The insurance company is a named defendant in any accident lawsuit. So the suit isn't 'Smith v.Jones', it is 'Smith v. Jones and Megabucks Insurance Company'.


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## Pilgrim

The last I heard, (which has been a while) about 25% of drivers in Louisiana are uninsured at any given time. And minimum liability coverage is only 15k, which means in a lot of cases you are not going to recover much when seriously injured unless you have good UM coverage, which naturally is a no brainer here. 

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk


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## Edward

I had forgotten another reason for the high rates in Louisiana. It's the only place I've driven where I recall them selling mixed drinks in the gas stations. And since you couldn't carry out an open container, they'd scotch tape on the lid to 'seal' the plastic cup, and hand you a straw you couldn't use until you walked out the door. That was several years ago, and I don't know if it is still that easy. 

As for litigation, the most recent edition of the Louisiana Bar Journal urges lawyers to defend judges when the Louisiana court system is referred to as a "judicial hell hole". Also, keep in mind that tort law in Louisiana is quite different from the other states.


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## Stephen L Smith

DMcFadden said:


> In my first church, I "drove" a Honda Express to and from the office.


Talking of Hondas, we do know the apostles would encourage pastors to get a Honda. 
"it has seemed good to us, having come to one *accord*" Acts 15:25


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## Vox Oculi

Eisegesis joke ftw. 'Needs to go in the Reformed jokes thread.


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## brendanchatt

It's of course important to consider the safety of your vehicle. A car that's been in an accident that compressed it in an area, no longer provides the impact absorption that it once did.


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