# Are Arminians Evangelicals



## yeutter (Nov 21, 2008)

An article by Michael Horton has recently been reprinted by reformationonline which raises the issue of who is properly called an evangelical. It can be found here. If we should not call arminians evangelical; what should we call them?


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## Curt (Nov 21, 2008)

I say let them have the term evangelical. It has been rendered devoid of meaning anyway.


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## jd.morrison (Nov 21, 2008)

WOW! That is a loaded question...

I would say people like Wesley would be considered Evangelical, but today's "arminians" are not really Classical Arminians I would probably say that the majority of them today should not be called evangelicals.


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## yeutter (Nov 21, 2008)

jd.morrison said:


> I would say people like Wesley would be considered Evangelical, but today's "arminians" are not really Classical Arminians


You are correct that many of todays arminian "evangelicals" are not really evangelical. But should John Wesley be called an evangelical? Would his contemporaries have called him and the chapels he founded evangelical? They certainly applied that term to Whitefield. Did they call Wesley and his wing of Methodism evangelical?


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## jd.morrison (Nov 21, 2008)

I think you can call Wesley an Evangelical because if my understanding is correct he would say that one cannot be a Christian save for the work of the Holy Spirit, his understanding is just flawed in his understanding of soteriology.


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## Pergamum (Nov 21, 2008)

What is an evangelical?


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## N. Eshelman (Nov 21, 2008)

How about devangelicals?


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## N. Eshelman (Nov 21, 2008)

Seriously though, 

I rarely use the term evangelical, even though its roots are ours. I prefer 'confessionally reformed' for myself. I would let the term evangelical go because of its current usage. 

Of course, if people want to fight for the term, I would concur that they have the right to do so.


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## Casey (Nov 21, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> What is an evangelical?




Some scholarship locates the beginning of "evangelicalism" with Wesley/Whitefield revivalism. But the term "evangelical" was used to describe Luther's movement. Nowadays liberals (who denial penal substitutionary atonement, like McLaren) and Roman Catholics can be called "evangelical." I think it's most appropriate to use the term as a synonym of "Protestant," though I realize few people use it that way. If confessional Lutherans and confessional Reformed are the only true Protestants, then that would mean Arminians are not "evangelicals" since Arminian views were condemned at Dordt.


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## Matthias (Nov 21, 2008)

yeutter said:


> If we should not call arminians evangelical; what should we call them?



apostate?


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## N. Eshelman (Nov 21, 2008)

Here is what the Oxford English Dictionary says:

A. adj.

1. Of or pertaining to the Gospel. {dag}a. Of or pertaining to the Gospel narrative, or to the Four Gospels; contained or mentioned in the Gospels. Obs.; = EVANGELIC 1a.
1553 T. PAYNELL (title) The Pandectes of the Euangelicall Lawe; comprisyng the whole Hystorie of Christes Gospell. 1583 STUBBES Anat. Abus. II. 90 Thorough the whole euangelicall historie. 1597 HOOKER Eccl. Pol. V. xl. §2 What disorder is it if these few Evangelical Hymns..be..every day rehearsed? 1660 BURNEY {Kappa}{geacu}{rho}{delta}. {Delta}{gwfrown}{rho}{omicron}{nu} (1611) 32 The King..commissionates every active hand in Israel, like the Evangelical Centurion. a1703 BURKITT On N.T. Luke i. 79 In this evangelical hymn there is a prophetical prediction. 1751 CHAMBERS Cycl. s.v. Harmony, Evangelical Harmony, is a title of divers books, composed to shew the..agreement of the accounts given by the four evangelists.

b. Of or pertaining to, or in accordance with, the faith or precepts of the Gospel, or the Christian religion; pertaining to, or characteristic of, the Gospel dispensation.
1531 TINDALE Exp. St. John (1537) 92 He exhorteth them to procede constauntly in the euangelicall truth. 1581 J. BELL Haddon's Answ. Osor. 103 The Evangelicall Philosphye doth call us higher. 1619 W. PERKINS Cases Consc. 31 A stirring vp of the heart to Euangelicall sorrow. 1642 ROGERS Naaman 41 In legal, and evangelicall respects. 1699 BURNET 39 Art. x. (1700) 123 Faith..separated from the other Evangelical Graces. 1730 BERKELEY Serm. Wks. 1871 IV. 641 Not lip-worship, nor will-worship, but inward and evangelical. 1782 PRIESTLEY Corrupt. Chr. I. II. 164 There is nothing evangelical; all is legal and carnal. 1839 J. YEOWELL Anc. Brit. Ch. ii. (1847) 10 He has taken away..the legal priesthood, that he may establish..the evangelical priesthood. 1858 MARSDEN Early Purit. 18 Their detestation of the papacy and their views of evangelical truth, were confirmed. 1875 MANNING Mission H. Ghost i. 13 The one great evangelical gift..is the gift of the Holy Ghost.

c. evangelical prophet: a designation of Isaiah, representing the view that his writings describe prophetically the life of Christ, and the state of things under the Gospel dispensation, and that they abound in anticipations of the doctrines revealed in the Gospel.
The idea is due to St. Jerome, in whose writings it frequently occurs in various forms: e.g. he says (Ad Paulam, Wks. 1575 III. 18) that Isaiah ‘non tam propheta dicendus est quam evangelista.’
1547 Homilies I. Falling from God II. (1859) 85 The evangelical Prophet Esay..doth teach us. 1585 ABP. SANDYS Serm. (1841) 8 Our evangelical prophet Esaias hath..most lively described and set forth the nativity..of our Saviour Christ to judge the quick and the dead. 1699 EVELYN Acetaria (1729) 168 The Evangelical Prophet adumbrating the future Glory of the Catholick Church. 1778 R. LOWTH Isaiah Prelim. Diss. (ed. 12) 52 The sublime and spiritual uses to be made of this peculiarly evangelical Prophet. 1853 MAURICE Proph. & Kings xiii. 226 He [Isaiah] is often called the evangelical prophet; by which it is meant that he is especially the prophet of the Messiah.

d. Of a person: Imbued with the spirit of the Gospel. rare.
1768 STERNE Sent. Journ. (1775) 101, I am so evangelical in this, and have such a fellow-feeling for whatever is weak.

2. Since the Reformation adopted as the designation of certain theological parties, who have claimed that the doctrines on which they lay especial stress constitute ‘the Gospel’. This claim is of course disallowed by their adversaries, but (as in the case of other self-assumed party names) the designation has received the sanction of general usage. a. = PROTESTANT. Now only with reference to Germany and Switzerland, where its German and French equivalents are also applied in narrower sense to the Lutheran as distinguished from the ‘Reformed’ or Calvinistic Church. In the German Empire ‘The Evangelical Church’ was the official name of the established Protestant Church of Prussia, formed in 1817 by the union of the Lutheran and Reformed churches.
1532 MORE Confut. Tindale Wks. 353/2 Tindall himselfe woulde no lesse were done..then would hys euangelical brother Barns. 1581 W. STAFFORD Exam. Compl. iii. (1876) 94 Every bishop should yerely keepe a sinode in his diocesse of all euangelicall persons. 1619 Arraign. Barnevelt §11 The reformed euangelicall religion. 1697 EVELYN Numism. viii. 265 The Evangelical Churches in Germany. 1786 W. THOMSON Watson's Philip III. (1839) 345 They should maintain two companies of evangelical soldiers. 1845 S. AUSTIN Ranke's Hist. Ref. III. V. iii. 109 The evangelical communes became aware of their superiority.

b. From 18th c. applied to that school of Protestants which maintains that the essence of ‘the Gospel’ consists in the doctrine of salvation by faith in the atoning death of Christ, and denies that either good works or the sacraments have any saving efficacy.
Other features more or less characteristic of the theology of this school are: a strong insistence on the totally depraved state of human nature consequent on the Fall; the assertion of the sole authority of the Bible in matters of doctrine, and the denial of any power inherent in the Church to supplement or authoritatively interpret the teaching of Scripture; the denial that any supernatural gifts are imparted by ordination; and the view that the sacraments are merely symbols, the value of which consists in the thoughts which they are fitted to suggest. As a distinct party designation, the term came into general use, in England, at the time of the Methodist revival; and it may be said, with substantial accuracy, to denote the school of theology which that movement represents, though its earlier associations were rather with the Calvinistic than the Arminian branch of the movement. In the early part of the 19th c. the words ‘Methodist’ and ‘Evangelical’ were, by adversaries, often used indiscriminately, and associated with accusations of fanaticism and ‘puritanical’ disapproval of social pleasures. The portion of the ‘evangelical’ school which belongs to the Anglican church is practically identical with the ‘Low Church’ party. In the Church of Scotland during the latter part of the 18th and the early part of the 19th c. the two leading parties were the ‘Evangelical’ and the ‘Moderate’ party.
[1747 DODDRIDGE Life Col. Gardiner 162 It was his deliberate Judgment, that the Law should be preached, as well as the Gospel; and hardly any Thing gave him greater Offence, than the irreverent Manner in which some, who have been ignorantly extolled as the most zealous Evangelical Preachers, have sometimes been tempted to speak of the former.] 1791 HAMPSON Mem. J. Wesley III. 61 What are usually called evangelical views of religion. 1809 R. SOUTHEY in Q. Rev. I. 195 The Wesleyans, the Orthodox dissenters of every description, and the Evangelical churchmen may all be comprehended under the generic name of Methodists. 1825 LD. COCKBURN Mem. i. 43 The principles and feelings of the persons commonly called evangelical were the same then as they are now. 1842 DICKENS Amer. Notes (1850) 38/2 Evangelical ladies there are, likewise, whose attachment to the forms of religion, and horror of theatrical entertainments, are most exemplary. 1871 BLACKIE Four Phases I. 54 The sacred-sounding columns of an evangelical newspaper. 1889 Dict. Nat. Biog. XVII. 433 Erskine was..devoted to the doctrines and aims of the evangelical party in the church.

3. Of or pertaining to an evangelist, or preacher of the Gospel. rare.
1651 HOBBES Govt. & Soc. xvii. §23. 321 The Apostolicall worke indeed was universall..the Evangelicall to preach, or to be publishers of the Gospell among the infidels. 1794 GODWIN Cal. Williams 291 He [the vicar] condescended, with his evangelical hand, to guide the plough.

B. n.

1. A Protestant; esp. a German Lutheran, or an adherent of the national church of the German Empire. See A. 2a.
1532 MORE Confut. Tindale Wks. 352/1 Those euaungelicalles theimselfe cease not to pursue and punishe..their euaungelicall bretherne. 1860 FROUDE Hist. Eng. V. 323 Clergymen professing to be Evangelicals held four or five livings, and officiated in none. 1878 in Grove Dict. Mus. I. 109 He [Veit Bach] is said..to have moved into Hungary with many other Evangelicals for protection from persecution.

2. A member of the Evangelical party, esp. in the Church of England. Cf. A. 2b.
1804 R. SOUTHEY in Ann. Rev. II. 189 The history of this society is truly characteristic of the Evangelicals. 1807 {emem} Espriella's Lett. (1814) II. 359 [Whitfield's] preachers were usually called by her [Lady Huntingdon's] name, which they have now dropt for the better title of Evangelicals. 1852 NEWLAND Lect. Tractar. 77 We claim the Evangelicals of the last generation as our fellow workers. 1865 PUSEY Truth Eng. Ch. 4 Ever since I knew them..I have loved those who are called ‘Evangelicals’. 1876 C. M. DAVIES Unorth. Lond. 374 Dr. Arnold defines the Evangelical to be ‘a good Christian, with a narrow understanding’.

Hence evan{smm}geli{sm}cality, evan{sm}gelicalness (rare), the quality or state of being evangelical; faithfulness to the Gospel.
1857 DE QUINCEY in H.A. Page Life (1877) II. xviii. 129 One of the Edinburgh Professors, and notorious for his evangelicality. 1645 J. GOODWIN Innoc. & Truth Tri. 63 Mr. Prynne by representing my Parish as divided, disordered by my Independent way, hath rather given testimony to the truth and evangelicalnesse of it. 1730-6 BAILEY (folio), Evangelicalness, the having evangelical quality.

ADDITIONS SERIES 1993

evangelical, a. and n.

Add: [A.] 4. transf. Eager to share one's enthusiasm with others; hortatory, proselytizing.
1952 C. I. GLICKSMAN Amer. Lit. Crit. 1900-1950 49 The Marxist impulse in American literary criticism was chiefly hortatory and evangelical. 1978 P. LEWIS Fifties ii. 46 Togetherness and self-help in the birth process..is now embraced with less evangelical fervour than it was by Fifties pioneer couples. 1990 Daily Tel. 21 Aug. 11/8 He juggles ink bottles to interrupt his ‘workaholism’, and admits to being evangelical about the art [of the cartoonist].


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## yeutter (Nov 21, 2008)

*evangelical = confessionally Lutheran or Reformed*



Pergamum said:


> What is an evangelical?


See the Cambridge Declaration here


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## cih1355 (Nov 21, 2008)

> Further, the Arminians denied the Reformation belief that faith was a gift and that justification was a purely forensic (legal) declaration. For them, it included a moral change in the believer's life and faith itself, a work of humans, was the basis for God's declaration.





> Justification may be lost every time one willfully disobeys and Wesley adds, "We do not find it affirmed expressly in Scripture that God imputes the righteousness of Christ to any, although we do find that faith is imputed unto us for righteousness." This imputation or crediting of faith as our righteousness, rather than Christ's active and passive obedience, is precisely the doctrine articulated by Arminius, rendering faith a work which achieves righteousness before God.



The above quotes are taken from Michael Horton's article. If that is what an Arminian actually believes, then no Arminian should be called an evangelical because evangelicals do not believe that our own obedience or faith is the basis upon which God justifies us. 

If someone calls himself an Arminian but renounces everything in those paragraphs that I have quoted, then he does not understand what Arminianism is or he is being inconsistent with his beliefs.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 21, 2008)

Arminians are evangelicals in the 18th, 19th and early 20th century usage of the term. 

As we can see from this thread, some Reformed don't seem to want to be identified as evangelicals. I'm thinking especially of some who are or have been associated with WSCAL as Horton is.


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## Mushroom (Nov 21, 2008)

Isn't this about the distinction between evangelical and evanjellyfish?


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## Pilgrim (Nov 21, 2008)

Brad said:


> Isn't this about the distinction between evangelical and evanjellyfish?



I think so. A good deal of Horton's writing is apparently aimed at what you could call evanjellyfish. I think that's one reason why I've never really been able to get into several of his books (_Beyond Culture Wars_ comes to mind) because in many cases they really aren't addressing anything that I've ever believed or in some cases I felt they were a little off the mark. However, I can see how they might be helpful to someone who came out of a theologically weak of background. (Mine was extremely weak, but it was not evangelical.) By the time I became aware of Horton I had already read similar critiques by Iain Murray, MacArthur and others.


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## tellville (Nov 22, 2008)

yeutter said:


> If we should not call arminians evangelical; what should we call them?



Arminians


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## Jimmy the Greek (Nov 22, 2008)

John Girardeau (1825-98), a southern presbyterian, in his classic work _Calvinism and Evangelical Arminianism_, seems to allow them the term.

To the OP, apparently in Horton's view Arminians are not truly evangelical. If Horton had his druthers, Arminians might not be called evangelical. But that doesn't make it so. The term has never been limited to Calvinist or Reformed. Although today it is certainly used in a broader sense than we might like. Can Billy Graham not be called an evangelical?


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## Whitefield (Nov 22, 2008)

Calvinism and Evangelical Arminianism by John L. Girardeau


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## CharlieJ (Nov 22, 2008)

B.B. Warfield, in his _Plan of Salvation_, puts Wesleyan Arminianism under evangelicalism, but Remonstrant Arminianism under "Autosoterism" along with heathen religions. He also contrasts evangelicalism with sacerdotalism, including (if I remember correctly) Catholics, Lutherans, and Anglicans.


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## Whitefield (Nov 22, 2008)

If the label "evangelical" is used in contradistinction to "liberal", then, yes, many Arminians are evangelical. If the label "evangelical" is used in contradistinction to "Roman Catholic", then, yes, most Arminians are "evangelical". If "evangelical" is used to define those who are the theological descendants of Luther and Calvin, then, no, Arminians are not "evangelical".


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## TheFleshProfitethNothing (Nov 22, 2008)

tellville said:


> yeutter said:
> 
> 
> > If we should not call arminians evangelical; what should we call them?
> ...



Can one proffer a false gospel (in it's fulness), adhere to it, and truly be considered a believer is the foundational question here...is it not? I am not saying that one cannot be sitting under a preacher one day, and hear that he is a sinner because he is concieved in sin, and sins because he must, and is spiritually dead, with need of the Saviour...I'm sure one can be saved through the preaching of someone doing it in pretense (as in Phillipians).

The question is, are they truly and at the very foundation of their doctrine, evangelicals? Especially when you consider that there is SOMETHING within man that can please his Maker, apart from being made alive by the power of His Spirit?

If we on the surface, see one preaching, and hear this preaching as being sound, does not in reality or at first "glance", make the person Evangelical...does it?

Toplady, and later Whitefield (realizing what Wesley really was) fought against Wesley and his doctrine...don't know that these two would have considered Wesley an evangelical. If they did not, would Calvin, Beza, Owen, and others of their day, had considered him evangelical either?

I'm in agreement that they are indeed NOT evangelical. This is my understanding at this time.


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## Whitefield (Nov 22, 2008)

Whitefield vehemently disagreed with Wesley over many theological points, and he reacted against Wesley's dealing in the church at Bristol (a church Whitefield entrusted to Wesley while he went to Georgia). However, Whitefield never ceased to regard John Wesley as his Christian brother. Whitefield never questioned Wesley's salvation.

Whitefield's Letter to Wesley


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## TheFleshProfitethNothing (Nov 24, 2008)

I can only say, that when you have devoted a great portion of your life to a cause, then one day realize that the person with whom you joined the cause has seemed to "change" (of which I don't think Wesley changed at all, but was always out to help squelch the reformation for Rome), you would be hurt, and even have some sense of pride in that you wouldn't want to believe you could be so decieved by someone.

It is difficult to let go, to forsake others with whom you have such attachments...I know, I have let MANY go...but, do I give them evil looks when I see them? No. Do I say hurtful things to them? No. I mean, the Gospel does hurt; is OFFENSIVE. So, I don't have to be "rude" or seem "uninviting", it just happens.

Again, Whitefield certainly was questioning Wesley...whether Wesley was truly saved...I mean read it...He just couldn't bring himself to believe it...

It would be devastating to him...to see his friend was not saved all along would be depressing and sorrowful...and I have to go...

Can't finish ...be back later


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## JDKetterman (Nov 24, 2008)

yeutter said:


> An article by Michael Horton has recently been reprinted by reformationonline which raises the issue of who is properly called an evangelical. It can be found here. If we should not call arminians evangelical; what should we call them?



I don't think we should call them evangelical. The name evangelical belongs to us, and I believe we should rightfully take it back. We should call arminians what they are..arminians..


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## asc (Nov 24, 2008)

Curt said:


> I say let them have the term evangelical. It has been rendered devoid of meaning anyway.



i agree.


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