# James 2:19 Even the Demons believe



## NB3K (Jul 15, 2011)

Jas 2:19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe--and shudder! 

Yesterday I was confronted with this verse by some one on youtube that is an anticalvinist. He was trying to show me that faith in Christ alone without good works is not enought to save me. Now I believe that Grace produces good works.

Eph 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 
Eph 2:9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 
Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them. 


But, this person was really against the doctrine of Sola Fide. So I explained to him that the reason why the demons believe and shudder is because they see, and know God. They know without a doubt what purpose God has made them for viz, vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. 

We on the other hand believe God not because we have seen Him, but by Faith we believe. The demons do not have faith, but they do have belief because they can see. We believe only by faith and faith alone.

Heb 11:1 Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. 

Joh_20:29 Jesus said to him, "Have you believed because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."

THe demons have no faith. They Believe by seeing and we believe by faith.


Any objections to this line of thought?


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## JonathanHunt (Jul 15, 2011)

I believe that the point James is making is a simple one. He says (in effect) 'you believe there is One God, good, but even the demons believe the same thing, and tremble'.

He is saying that the demons are theologically correct monotheists - but it does them no good. The argument proves sola fide rather than the other way around. As you say, the demons have no faith - they are not regenerate. They may profess certain things, but there is no change in them. I do wonder if in an attempt to dismantle the truth, this person is stretching James' illustration way beyond its bounds.


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## Peairtach (Jul 15, 2011)

The faith of demons has only _notitia_ (content) and _assensus_ (assent) but no _fiducia_ (trust). They know God exists and they agree that God exists.

But true faith normally has all three elements.

It is a dead faith (or "faith") like the faith of those that James was correcting. These people had obviously got a hold of (heard of) the correct doctrine of justification by faith alone and were abusing it

Technically speaking no-one is ordinarily _saved_ without good works because sanctification is part of salvation, so works always result if people have time in this world after they believe.

We are more particularly _justified_ by faith alone without works.

The good works that we do as part of our sanctification which in turn is an aspect of our salvation are the product of the same faith which justifies without works. 

The good works contribute nothing to our _justification_ but are the evidence of it and are part and parcel of our _salvation_.


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## cih1355 (Jul 15, 2011)

James 2:19 is saying that the demons know that there is one God. They know that God exists and that there is one God, but this does not mean that they are actually trusting God for their salvation.


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## NB3K (Jul 15, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> I believe that the point James is making is a simple one. He says (in effect) 'you believe there is One God, good, but even the demons believe the same thing, and tremble'.
> 
> He is saying that the demons are theologically correct monotheists - but it does them no good. The argument proves sola fide rather than the other way around. As you say, the demons have no faith - they are not regenerate. They may profess certain things, but there is no change in them. I do wonder if in an attempt to dismantle the truth, this person is stretching James' illustration way beyond its bounds.



Here is some of the discussion

@NB3K my friend, James did not say they tremble because demons SEE God. The faith of devils is an intellectual perception that God exists, that God has laws, that God is just, that Jesus is the Son of God, that Jesus died for sinners, that Jesus rose from the dead, etc. They have clear perceptions of these things. HOW does your faith differ from a state of simply being convinced and having 'understanding' which cannot save?

@fractalfires They tremble before God because they know his decree for them. They know that they are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction. They don't believe in him by faith. remember faith is being assured of what you cannot see.

NB3K 21 hours ago 


@fractalfires The works that accompany my Faith are 1. Jesus' Fulfilling of the Law with his 33 years walking 2. His death 3. His resurection from the dead

these works that Christ did are all the works we need!

NB3K 21 hours ago 


@NB3K "What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15 If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16 And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:14

(Luther didn't like James much either!) 

fractalfires 21 hours ago 

@fractalfires This is why Paul said that he wanted to know nothing but Christ and him Crucified because to know Christ and Him Crucified you have eternal life! Look to the demands of the law and then look at Christ if you can't see in Christ is all one needs As Christ said before he gave up His Spirit IT IS FINISHED!

NB3K 21 hours ago 


@NB3K the devils believe it is a finished work too. Still doesn't prove you have saving faith.

Again, you earlier tried to play the 'I'm the Greek Calvinist expert' but I know Greek grammar and I've taught Greek. You invented a distinction between belief and faith that is not there in the Greek. In fact, its not there in ENGLISH either. But it IS there in Calvinism. Calvinism is indeed FINISHED when you finally submit to the cross. Calvinism cannot save you. Only Jesus can. He died 4 YOU

fractalfires 21 hours ago 

@fractalfires No faith "is" the evidence! of things not seen!
NB3K

@NB3K that is not faith, that is blind presumption. Faith is based on EVIDENCE of things not seen.

But you disregarded James own equation of faith with believing. Look friend, "19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? "

James wasn't speaking of having faith WITHOUT sight. Pay attention to that statement momentarily, please.

fractalfires 21 hours ago


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## Poimen (Jul 15, 2011)

> @NB3K my friend, James did not say they tremble because demons SEE God. The faith of devils is an intellectual perception that God exists, that God has laws, that God is just, that Jesus is the Son of God, that Jesus died for sinners, that Jesus rose from the dead, etc. They have clear perceptions of these things. HOW does your faith differ from a state of simply being convinced and having 'understanding' which cannot save?



The text says that the demons believe. It does not, as your friend says, that they believe, "that Jesus is the Son of God, that Jesus died for sinners, that Jesus rose from the dead". Indeed what is the content of their faith? From the context it is that there is one God. Well, even many unbelievers (i.e. non-christians) profess monotheism but they do not profess Jesus as Messiah or crucified Saviour and Lord. 

In fact the entire chapter militates against those elements of profession. For James says nothing about faith _in Christ_; he does not refer to, as Paul does, to the saving, atoning work of our Lord nor of forensic justification (salvation apart from works). Thus no one is justified by a faith _in God_, rather one must confess Christ. And when one confesses Christ, as Paul implies, this is sufficient (Romans 10:8-13). Of course it must be from the heart (vs. 9) but it is not accompanied with works for Christ is our righteousness. (vs. 3&4)


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