# Michael Horton - A Systematic Theology for Pilgrim's on the Way



## Jared

I just received Michael Horton's Systematic Theology. I've been waiting months to start reading it. I'm looking forward to reading the sections on covenant theology because I haven't heard covenant theology taught very clearly. Usually I have heard someone's perspective on it who was not a covenant theologian.

I know it's unfair that I have his systematic theology before it came out. I'm sorry. The local Christian bookstore here in town tends to sell stuff before its release date. I'm not complaining.


----------



## BlackCalvinist

I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hambur...er....copy of that SysTheo today.


----------



## Jack K

Well then, give us a review within the next six days so we know whether or not to order a copy while it's still 45% off at Westminster Bookstore. I've been on the fence—to buy or not to buy—since their promo email arrived in my in-box this morning.

Update: It looks like you can still place orders but might not get the book until late February due to "overwhelming demand." I guess I snoozed and losed.


----------



## Alex Stophel

It looks like you can get it on Kindle right now. It's the same price as the hardback, though... Which is unusual for Kindle. Perhaps it will go down after the release.


----------



## moral necessity

CBD has it for half price!

The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on the Way: Michael Horton: 9780310286042: Christianbook.com

Blessings!


----------



## CharlieJ

I'm a bit put out by this statement: "The most important systematic theology since Louis Berkhof's 1932 magnum opus." Is that really a responsible thing for a publisher to say?


----------



## Jared

Well, I've been on the fence between classical premillenialism and amillenialism for a while now. But, I had still been leaning toward premillenialism. But through reading Horton's systematic, I think I might be leaning toward amillenialism a lee leetle more, but I'm still undecided.

Those of you who are familiar with Horton, do you think he's a good representative of covenant theology?


----------



## SRoper

I believe that Horton holds to republication of the covenant of works, which, as I understand, is not representative of all who hold to the reformed confessions.


----------



## Jack K

CharlieJ said:


> I'm a bit put out by this statement: "The most important systematic theology since Louis Berkhof's 1932 magnum opus." Is that really a responsible thing for a publisher to say?



Sounds like overblown marketing talk. Part hype and part an indication of what segment of the Christian market they hope to appeal to. You can learn some true things about what sort of book it is (in this case, that's it's likely to appeal to those raised on Berkhof) if you discount the part that's hype. Maybe ten years from now we'll be able to judge whether or not that statement is true. Given Horton's following, the book probably does have the _potential_ to become what they claim.


----------



## Jared

Does anyone know whether or not it would be legal for me to post quotations from the book since it technically hasn't been released yet?


----------



## westminken

Probably not. Wait a few days to be on the safe side


----------



## Michael

Nice try but I'm not falling for it, Jared. Lemme guess, you probably have the Verizon iPhone already too. Sure buddy. Whatever.


----------



## Jared

Michael said:


> Nice try but I'm not falling for it, Jared. Lemme guess, you probably have the Verizon iPhone already too. Sure buddy. Whatever.



Actually, I just have the iPhone 3GS from AT&T.

---------- Post added at 05:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------




Michael said:


> Nice try but I'm not falling for it, Jared. Lemme guess, you probably have the Verizon iPhone already too. Sure buddy. Whatever.



I would say that using spiritual gifts on the forum is unconfessional and therefore a violation of the rules of the board. But since you got some of the details wrong that would make you a false prophet.


----------



## Jesus is my friend

CharlieJ said:


> I'm a bit put out by this statement: "The most important systematic theology since Louis Berkhof's 1932 magnum opus." Is that really a responsible thing for a publisher to say?



Well,I would really like to find out how Horton's book is,but I dont have Berkhof's yet, so I reckon now would be a time to order that and work through that,I should thank Horton's publisher for the recommendation.


----------



## TomVols

Jared Hanley said:


> I just received Michael Horton's Systematic Theology. I've been waiting months to start reading it. I'm looking forward to reading the sections on covenant theology because I haven't heard covenant theology taught very clearly. Usually I have heard someone's perspective on it who was not a covenant theologian.
> 
> I know it's unfair that I have his systematic theology before it came out. I'm sorry. The local Christian bookstore here in town tends to sell stuff before its release date. I'm not complaining.


 Oh....is JB gonna hear it from me! I hope he does the same with Gregg Allison's _Historical Theology_

---------- Post added at 06:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:48 PM ----------




moral necessity said:


> CBD has it for half price!
> 
> The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on the Way: Michael Horton: 9780310286042: Christianbook.com
> 
> Blessings!


After I added a couple others to my order, it was cheaper for me to go with CBD. Maybe it will ship sooner than WTS Books will.


----------



## Notthemama1984

Jesus is my friend said:


> CharlieJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit put out by this statement: "The most important systematic theology since Louis Berkhof's 1932 magnum opus." Is that really a responsible thing for a publisher to say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,I would really like to find out how Horton's book is,but I dont have Berkhof's yet, so I reckon now would be a time to order that and work through that,I should thank Horton's publisher for the recommendation.
Click to expand...

 
CBD says this...



> Prolific theologian Michael Horton's highly anticipated The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on The Way represents his magnum opus and will be viewed as one of-if not the-most important systematic theologies since the final volume of Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian

Absurd marketing makes my stomach turn sour. 

So what you are saying Zondervan is that Douglas Kelly and Richard Gamble's Sys Theo's are worthless. Nice.


----------



## Marrow Man

This ST is superior because it's got "Pilgrims" in the title. Those guys can't possible compete with that.

Of course, I'm not sure I'd want my magnum opus to be compared with _Church Dogmatics_ ...


----------



## Michael Doyle

I am halfway through it on my Kindle and to be perfectly honest, I am finding it quite worth the price and beyond. He is a very brilliant theologian in In my humble opinion. If you don't like him then don't buy it. I believe as a tremendous asset to the reformed community and reformed thought, as well as a good brother in Christ, charity is in order.


----------



## Andres

Michael Doyle said:


> I am halfway through it on my Kindle and to be perfectly honest, I am finding it quite worth the price and beyond. He is a very brilliant theologian in In my humble opinion. If you don't like him then don't buy it. I believe as a tremendous asset to the reformed community and reformed thought, as well as a good brother in Christ, charity is in order.


 
 I don't have the book yet, but I will ask for it for my birthday in March. Ever since I came into the Reformed faith, Horton has been one of my favorite teachers. Seems like he's been getting quite a bit of flack lately, but I still maintain the utmost respect for him and consider him a favorite of mine.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian

My problem is not with Michael Horton but frankly irresponsible marketing.


----------



## VictorBravo

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Absurd marketing makes my stomach turn sour.
> 
> So what you are saying Zondervan is that Douglas Kelly and Richard Gamble's Sys Theo's are worthless. Nice.


 
Not worthless, brother. Just not quite as _important_. . . .


----------



## SolaGratia

Here is Michael Horton Systematic Theology intro:


Adult Bible Class Audio from Christ United Reformed Church - Santee


----------



## Michael Doyle

I doubt you are saying this had anything to do with Horton concerning the marketing, but for the sake of this conversation, here is his remarks concerning those proclamations:


> Some have compared your volume to Louis Berkoff’s Systematic Theology from 1932. Is that a fair comparison, at least in the pattern or design, of your project?
> 
> *I didn’t come up with that comparison!* I’ve used Berkhof for years and intend to continue to do so. It’s a marvelous compendium of doctrine. But basically, it’s a synopsis of Bavinck’s magisterial (and lengthy!) dogmatics. I wanted to spend more time fleshing out each topic by integrating biblical theology with historical and systematic theology. So each major topic begins with a development of the theme from promise to fulfillment. In addition, I try to show the significance of each doctrine for life and engage with contemporary writers outside the tradition—even non-Christians. My basic approach is this: Theology arises first of all out of the drama of redemption, from which certain doctrines emerge that generate doxology and shape our discipleship in the world. That’s the rubric I have in mind in each chapter: Drama, Doctrine, Doxology, and Discipleship.



This interview can be found here
Interview with Michael Horton on ‘The Christian Faith’ - TGC Reviews


----------



## Andres

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> My problem is not with Michael Horton but frankly irresponsible marketing.


 
I wasn't refering to you as a critic of Horton brother. My apologies. I agree with you that the little byline is silly. It seems Horton thinks so too!


----------



## bookslover

CharlieJ said:


> I'm a bit put out by this statement: "The most important systematic theology since Louis Berkhof's 1932 magnum opus." Is that really a responsible thing for a publisher to say?


 
No need to take that statement seriously. Remember, the publisher is peddling books - so it's his job to make outlandish statements! Somebody in the PR department probably dreamed that one up. I'll say, though, that Horton won't be as boring as Berkhof, that's for sure. Berkhof's theology is excellent, of course, but it's a real snoozefest to read...

---------- Post added at 02:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 AM ----------




Chaplainintraining said:


> Jesus is my friend said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CharlieJ said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a bit put out by this statement: "The most important systematic theology since Louis Berkhof's 1932 magnum opus." Is that really a responsible thing for a publisher to say?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well,I would really like to find out how Horton's book is,but I dont have Berkhof's yet, so I reckon now would be a time to order that and work through that,I should thank Horton's publisher for the recommendation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> CBD says this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Prolific theologian Michael Horton's highly anticipated The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on The Way represents his magnum opus and will be viewed as one of-if not the-most important systematic theologies since the final volume of Karl Barth's Church Dogmatics
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


First, Berkhof, now Barth. Of course, given Barth's theology, it couldn't help but be _better_ than Barth's. That's setting the bar pretty low!


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion

I am looking forward to reviews of the book by those here that have read it.

AMR


----------



## kodos

I am currently reading it (bought the Kindle edition) - it is very good thus far. Warning: I've only ever read Grudem's Systematic Theology (and I have had a few issues with it, particularly his treatment on the millennium - but overall I found his work quite helpful for a lay-person such as myself).

Horton's work has a lots of overtones of Biblical and Historical Theology. His emphasis on Covenant Theology is apparent (I'm also reading his book "God of Promise: An Introduction to Covenant Theology"). It's easy to read, very engaging and while I haven't read Berkhof's work - I think it is a cut above Grudem's. I also appreciate the fact that Horton comes from a Confessional perspective.

He also deals with a lot of modern issues like the NPP in his chapter on Justification. So for that reason alone, it's nice to have a more up-to-date book. Again, by no means a comprehensive review(!) - but just a quick surface level examination on my part.

I'm glad I bought it.


----------



## cih1355

I ordered the book and I'm looking forward to reading it.


----------



## greenbaggins

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Absurd marketing makes my stomach turn sour.
> 
> So what you are saying Zondervan is that Douglas Kelly and Richard Gamble's Sys Theo's are worthless. Nice.


 
Don't forget Reymond. Oh, and Bavinck, Turretin and a'Brakel were also published after Berkhof (in translation, of course). I wouldn't call Gamble a Systematic Theology, though. It is an attempt at an entire theological-encyclopedic treatment of Scripture, fully integrating ST, BT, and HT.


----------



## SolaScriptura

greenbaggins said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd marketing makes my stomach turn sour.
> 
> So what you are saying Zondervan is that Douglas Kelly and Richard Gamble's Sys Theo's are worthless. Nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget Reymond...
Click to expand...


Speaking of Reymond, I'm curious to know how Horton's text will compare/differ with Reymond's.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian

Oh I agree in regards to Dr. Gamble Rev. Keister. I had him in class at RPTS. Great point on the rest, I didn't even think about them.


----------



## ChristianTrader

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Absurd marketing makes my stomach turn sour.
> 
> So what you are saying Zondervan is that Douglas Kelly and Richard Gamble's Sys Theo's are worthless. Nice.



To be fair, neither Kelly or Gamble's are finished/published as of yet, so as far as that goes, they are not yet in the running. Also wouldn't it be more fair to compare those two to Bavinck instead of Berkhof? A one volume edition is not truly comparable to a three or four volume edition.

CT


----------



## proregno

SolaScriptura said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Absurd marketing makes my stomach turn sour.
> 
> So what you are saying Zondervan is that Douglas Kelly and Richard Gamble's Sys Theo's are worthless. Nice.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't forget Reymond...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Speaking of Reymond, I'm curious to know how Horton's text will compare/differ with Reymond's.
Click to expand...


Horton answers this himself: "Robert Reymond’s fine work explores the richness of Reformed theology, though I have some differences that I mention, mostly in a footnote here or there. But, like Reymond, I wanted to show how Reformed teaching holds together, not just on some topics (like sin and grace), but as an attempt to articulate the broader system of faith and practice."

See here


----------



## Christopher88

He gets flack for His view of Covenant Theology. 

I'm young in my education regarding Covenant theology so I can't say rather I agree with him on this issue or not.
(In response to Andres' comment)


----------



## Jared

BlackCalvinist said:


> I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hambur...er....copy of that SysTheo today.


 
Well, it's Tuesday now so pay up.


----------



## proregno

I think Reymond and Horton will also differ on these two issues:

1. Nature of biblical truth (Reymond tend more to Clark than Van Til)
2. Creation: Reymond upholds the historical view of 'in the space of six days'

I have Reymond's NST, am waiting for my copy of Horton's CF. Since it will take a while before I get it, I ask if the above two issues are discussed by Horton, and if so, how he differs from Reymond. 

In my edition of Reymond (1998), he discusses 'the nature of biblical truth' on p.95etc.; and creation on pp.384 etc.


----------



## C. M. Sheffield

I just hope Zondervan did a better job of binding this one than they did with Grudem's. Though, that's not likely. If its anything like other Zondervan volumes I own, it'll fall apart with even moderate use.


----------



## youthevang

It will be a while before I will be able to add this book to my library. But I have read the _God of Promise_ several times, and am compelled to read it again.


----------



## ServantsHeart

proregno said:


> Horton answers this himself: "Robert Reymond’s fine work explores the richness of Reformed theology,


 I have really enjoyed Dr. Raymonds Systematic Theology,nicely done and helpful for a layman like myself.


----------



## Jesus is my friend

Just ordered it from Amazon 30 dollars free shipping and it's in stock-Hooray!


----------



## bookslover

Horton's new ST gets a plug at _National Review's_ website. Loving the World - By Mike Potemra - The Corner - National Review Online


----------



## irresistible_grace

Jared Hanley said:


> I'm looking forward to reading the sections on covenant theology because I haven't heard covenant theology taught very clearly.



If you are looking for "clear" teaching on covenant theology (aka Covenant Theology 101) then you'll want to read GOD OF PROMISE: Introducing Covenant Theology, by Michael Horton. It's been mentioned a few times in this thread already! I've got it & love it.


----------



## Pergamum

Just ordered the book, can't wait.


----------



## py3ak

Jared Hanley said:


> I'm looking forward to reading the sections on covenant theology because I haven't heard covenant theology taught very clearly.



John Brown is the answer to this problem. See pp.61ff for the covenant of works, and pp. 87ff for the covenant of grace.


----------



## mvdm

py3ak said:


> Jared Hanley said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to reading the sections on covenant theology because I haven't heard covenant theology taught very clearly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Brown is the answer to this problem. See pp.61ff for the covenant of works, and pp. 87ff for the covenant of grace.
Click to expand...


Interesting that in John Brown's description of the Covenant of Works, he sees God being gracious:

_Q. What moved God to enter into this covenant ?—A. His own free favour and bounty, Job. vii. 17.

Q. How doth that appear 1—A. Because God as a Creator-might justly have exacted all the service man was capable of, without giving him any reward ; and, notwithstanding, punished him for disobedience, Luke xvii. 10.

Q. Was very much grace manifested in the covenant of works 1—A. Yes, very much free favour and bounty.

Q. How so 1—A. In God's not only promising to reward man's obedience ; but also in so framing this covenant, as to admit a covenant of grace, if it was broken.

Q. Why then is it not called a covenant of grace ?—A. Because there was far less grace manifested in it than is in the second covenant, Rom. v. 20, 21.
_


----------



## Contra_Mundum

"Free favour" and "bounty" (above) are correlative to the term "condescension" (WCF).

God is "gracious," as part of his nature. But "undeserving" and "ill-deserving" are two different categories of "grace." "Grace" in its pure sense covers the latter in ways that make the former seem pale. We need precise language to differentiate between speeches concerning these two manners of receipt of God's kindness. They have different *character*.

Hence, we properly reserve "grace" to the conditions that obtain in post-lapsarian humanity, the "ill-desert" of our common lot. The previous covenant (of Works) has a different character.


----------



## Michael Doyle

Mine came today in book form as I had a gift to use. I have already read half on my Kindle. Very excited! Is everyone's book in gray-scale like mine? A little...um...gray


----------



## Jared

Here's one of my favorite quotes from the book so far:

God is love even when He judges; He is holy and righteous even in saving sinners; He is eternal even when He acts in time.
- Michael Horton, "The Christian Faith: A Systematic Theology for Pilgrims on the Way"

Reactions: Like 1


----------

