# A View on Missional Church Planting from the Far Outfield



## Pergamum (May 30, 2013)

A View on Missional Church Planting from the Far Outfield




> My wife and I are linguists working to translate the Bible for a language group in Asia composed of a bit over half a million people, the vast majority of whom have never heard the name of Jesus. The region in which we live is so far off the beaten trail, I can guarantee that you’ve never heard of it and most North American travel agents would be have trouble making travel arrangements to come visit us. So you could say we’re coming from the far outfield.






> We recently returned to the US for a study leave and settled for a few months in my wife’s hometown at the base of the Rocky Mountains. My wife did not grow up attending a local church, so we have not previously had a home church in her town. Not wanting to waste time church-hopping, we looked online for a local Reformed congregation and were surprised to find, in this town of 150,000 people, two Presbyterian Church in America (PCA) congregations, an Acts 29 Network church, an Orthodox Presbyterian Church (OPC) congregation, an Evangelical Presbyterian Church (EPC) congregation, and at least one Reformed Baptist congregation that participates in the Gospel Coalition, many of these literally within a few blocks of each other. In the next town over we found a congregation of the United Reformed Church (URC), another PCA congregation, and another EPC congregation. If we drive 15 more miles and we could attend a congregation of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America (RPCNA), a different PCA, etc. In addition, this area has quite a few conservative churches not of Reformed background but which are proclaiming the inerrancy and authority of the Bible to the community, as well as dozens of college student ministries such as Reformed University Fellowship (RUF), Navigators, Inter-Varsity Christian Fellowship (IVCF), Cru, Baptist Student Union (BSU), International Students, Inc. (ISI), etc.







> Our local prefecture in Asia has a population of four million, with only a single openly-publicized church and a dozen or so “house churches.” There are no local seminaries, Christian colleges or schools, no Christian bookstores, and no Christian radio stations.


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## Pergamum (May 30, 2013)

How do we better prioritize the "least-reached" of the world and ensure that our desire to be "missional" is also "missionary" and gets people to cross cultures with the Gospel?

Lots of graduates are coming out of solid reformed seminaries. How do we get some not to go to Dallas or Charlotte or Atlanta but to go to Jakarta or Tokyo or Bombay?


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## Edward (May 30, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> Lots of graduates are coming out of solid reformed seminaries. How do we get some not to go to Dallas or Charlotte or Atlanta but to go to Jakarta or Tokyo or Bombay?



Get folks from Jakarta and Tokyo and Bombay to go to seminary in Dallas, or Charlotte, or Jackson. Then send them home.


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## timmopussycat (May 31, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> How do we better prioritize the "least-reached" of the world and ensure that our desire to be "missional" is also "missionary" and gets people to cross cultures with the Gospel?
> 
> Lots of graduates are coming out of solid reformed seminaries. How do we get some not to go to Dallas or Charlotte or Atlanta but to go to Jakarta or Tokyo or Bombay?



Should we even try (beyond building a cross-cultural missionary awareness into our churches' activities and praying that the Lord would send labourers into his harvest, both of which I take as axiomatic that churches should be already doing)? But beyond that, It seems to me that matters are in God's hands. As Paul points out, those who have such ministries ultimately receive them from God not us (2 Cor 4:1).


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## Grimmson (May 31, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> How do we better prioritize the "least-reached" of the world and ensure that our desire to be "missional" is also "missionary" and gets people to cross cultures with the Gospel?
> 
> Lots of graduates are coming out of solid reformed seminaries. How do we get some not to go to Dallas or Charlotte or Atlanta but to go to Jakarta or Tokyo or Bombay?



For one, not bounding seminary students with student loans. Secondly, be willing to help provide for them out in far reaching places if they are single, married, or married with children. Third, reinforcing in seminaries the need for missions outside of the United States. Fourth, balancing missions with academics for students on the seminary level. Academics on the seminary level takes the priority and also seems to be the focus of people who are reformed. Fifthly, accountability of what is taught from seminaries by churches, presbyteries, general assemblies, and so on towards missions. Sixthly, a cutting of large salaries (whether they be pastors of large churches or seminary professors) by churches, associations, and reformed presbyteries so that more may be given to missions and missionary efforts. Seventhly, train people how to do missions locally and pastors to do home visits, which I know both is lacking. I know I have never had a reformed missionary or pastor ever come to my door. This includes in the case in which a pastor is invited to my home. Eighthly and lastly, seeing evangelism as not a career in which you get money from a church or group of people, but instead as a ministerial calling from God and not be confused with worldly professions, which I know does exist. I saw this confusion in the seminary I attended.


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## Tripel (May 31, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> Lots of graduates are coming out of solid reformed seminaries. How do we get some not to go to Dallas or Charlotte or Atlanta but to go to Jakarta or Tokyo or Bombay?



Money plays a huge role. A pastor in the US just needs a church willing to pay him a salary. But if that pastor goes into foreign missions, it's likely that he is responsible for raising his own finances. 

I have heard numerous missionaries say that 30-40% of their time is spent in fundraising. Unfortunately, that is what missions looks like today. And as I contemplate my future, a major consideration is whether I want to continue being a fundraiser for the rest of my life.


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## Edward (May 31, 2013)

Grimmson said:


> For one, not bounding seminary students with student loans.



You start out strong but end up going over the cliff.



Grimmson said:


> Sixthly, a cutting of large salaries (whether they be pastors of large churches or seminary professors)



Of course, it could be that I've just not met any of those lavishly paid seminary profs. But I don't expect my pastor to live like a Franciscan monk. And it could well be that our congregation gives more to missions than any other represented on the board.


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## Grimmson (May 31, 2013)

Edward said:


> Grimmson said:
> 
> 
> > For one, not bounding seminary students with student loans.
> ...



What do you classify as lavish pay? Lavish to me will probably be different then lavish to you. And by the way I am not asking for anyone to live like a Franciscan monk; not even if you are part of a large church. A moderate and a lavish life are two different things. And I do not think giving more to missions is necessarily the issue either, but instead we need to be training more qualified individuals to be out in the mission field; which implies a heart for the souls of people. We should not be just throwing money at the issue, which seems to be the American way.

And Edward based on a earlier statement, we should not be expecting for them to come here, but instead we must be willing and able to go to them. To live with them and train them where they are at, just as Christ did for us.


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## Pergamum (May 31, 2013)

Grimmson said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > How do we better prioritize the "least-reached" of the world and ensure that our desire to be "missional" is also "missionary" and gets people to cross cultures with the Gospel?
> ...



Thanks. Nice list.


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## Pergamum (May 31, 2013)

Tripel said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of graduates are coming out of solid reformed seminaries. How do we get some not to go to Dallas or Charlotte or Atlanta but to go to Jakarta or Tokyo or Bombay?
> ...



I have read elsewhere that 15-20% of missionary candidates drop-out due to the rigors of support-raising and that about that same percentage are chronically under-supported on the field.

Twice in the last 3 years I have known large churches (with plenty of money) cut a missionary's support without prior notice, causing the missionary to be forced to come off the field.

That being said, I am fully supported.....by some churches with pastors who are bi-vocational and must work part-time. This always makes me feel very strange, to be supported fully by churches who do not fully financially support their own pastors.


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## Edward (May 31, 2013)

Grimmson said:


> What do you classify as lavish pay?



Someone making enough to take a pay cut without feeling any pain. I'll throw it back at you. What do you consider a 'large salary' for a seminary prof, and how much would you cut it? 



Grimmson said:


> And Edward based on a earlier statement, we should not be expecting for them to come here, but instead we must be willing and able to go to them.



That would be more cost effective, and something I've advocated in previous discussions, but the original question seems to contemplate US seminaries. The whole education industry is on the edge of a precipice, or revolution, or however one might want to characterize it. It's probably not productive to think of education in historical or present terms when planning for the future.


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## SinnerSavedByChrist (Jun 1, 2013)

Grimmson said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > How do we better prioritize the "least-reached" of the world and ensure that our desire to be "missional" is also "missionary" and gets people to cross cultures with the Gospel?
> ...



 Well said. Add to that list - holy living, eyes of Stephen-the-martyr, Romans 15:20 ambition of preaching the gospel where it was not preached, + intense communion with God in hours of prayer.


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## Grimmson (Jun 3, 2013)

Edward said:


> Grimmson said:
> 
> 
> > What do you classify as lavish pay?
> ...



I think that a fair question, since I asked it of you. But let us be careful not to go beyond the confines of this OP. I define lavish pay as excess pay, and that is to say pay that is beyond what is needed to live. For example, if the average pay in a community and within the individual members in a church is 30 thousand then I think it would be inappropriate for a minister of the gospel to be paid 45 to 60 thousand because it is well beyond what he needs for him and his family to survive. I do not think the issue of lavish should be based upon pain, because of the natural tendency of people to become comfortable or attached with higher levels of lifestyle which would include the ownership of certain kinds of material possessions that are not really needed. Someone may feel pain about losing their Netflicks subscription or have to give up their Ferrari or eating out as much. Now when it comes to seminary pay, I think that depends on the area. I do not think it should be based on if a person has a PhD, because I do not think seminary training should just be academic. I would prefer regular experienced ministers to be training future pastors. Also I think pay should be based on the tuition of seminary students and not on gifts from little old ladies who received a note in the mail about donating to the seminary. If more than half of seminary pay is based on donors then I see a problem here which devalues denotation to students and quality of the students’ sacrifice of full time ministerial training. In fact I had a seminary professor who did exactly this in my Pentateuch class, when he said his salary was not based on the tuition of students and their tuition did not account much to the running of the seminary. Then he tried to have us think of the “little old lady that has sacrificed” so that students can receive a quality education. This upset to my knowledge at least two students at the seminary that I attended. But then again I think he should have focused on the Pentateuch and not on student tuition and his pay. I think seminary professors should be paid enough to provide for the care of himself or his family, not so he can buy a big house or a new car every couple of years, or whatever the newest gadgets are. His job is to train ministers, period. So if a professor is getting paid 70 thousand, then perhaps depending on the area he should be paid 55 thousand, which is more then enough to survive on. Which I think is beyond fair. No one should get into Christian education for the money. You should do for care and building of the people of God. I think there is something truly wrong with the professor is eating well, having all the fancy gadgets he wants (not needs), while a student paid his tuition and is starving and barely surviving. I can very much relate to that and am not a lazy person or someone who has ever been on food stamps or any kind of government assistance. I do not think I should make the decision for a pastor’s or professor’s pay, but instead it needs to be elders who are sensitive protective to the needs of a community and to students. Last think we should want to see ministers and professors over indulgencing based from the gifts and sacrifices of the people of God, which was given for the purpose of continued ministry. 




Edward said:


> That would be more cost effective, and something I've advocated in previous discussions, but the original question seems to contemplate US seminaries. The whole education industry is on the edge of a precipice, or revolution, or however one might want to characterize it. It's probably not productive to think of education in historical or present terms when planning for the future



I think we should consider it from historical terms because it is used for present and future planning and justification for those plans. 



Pergamum said:


> Thanks. Nice list.



Thanks you for the kind words. 

And Michael thank you as well, its nice to meet.


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