# Please help respond to Arminian forum post



## biblelighthouse (Apr 27, 2005)

I've been debating Arminians on numerous topics, on an Arminian discussion board. There are several people on the board who are at least making some semblance of an effort to communicate cordially. (Nevertheless, there are some "meanies" on there too . . . just take it with a grain of salt.)

One of them made an interesting new post:



> The purpose of this thread is to apeal to the Calvinists on this forum to answer the questions asked by the Arminians. I have aksed many, many times for answers concerning the early Church evidence against Calvinism on the historical level. I have also recommened Malcolms books - but don't expect them to be purchaced by Calvinists here. Until they understand the position of the Grammer argument it may be too much to ask for an answer against his writings. But the histoorical evidence is on my site for whoever will take the time to read it. Although it needs updating, there is still enough there to make the point. Yet, not a single Calvinist has answered my questions or refuted the evidence in any way. This seems to tell alot about them.
> 
> Now, if others will post their questions one last time for the Calvinists to have one last chance, I would like to see what happens. If they refuse, then we know once and for all that they cannot answer them. Plus. I would like to have a thread that contains all these question in one place, so we can have an area for bringing them back to, and I would like to make my own list of them.
> 
> ...



Would you guys be willing to (gently) jump into the discussion with me? I think I'm the only Calvinist on the board right now. I have already posted one reply to this new forum topic. But I'm sure you guys could add a LOT of great info to what I already started.

There is no login necessary. You can post on the forum as a guest if you want . . . just make sure you sign your first name, or something like that, so they will be able to distinguish your posts from mine.

Here's the URL for this particular post:
http://eternalsecurity.us/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8422#8422


I am REALLY looking forward to seeing how this particular discussion goes. 

Who knows? Maybe the Lord will lead one or two Arminians to a better understanding of the truth. (I was once an Arminian, and God got through to me!)

Thank you in advance.

In Christ,
Joseph M. Gleason


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## Scott Bushey (Apr 27, 2005)

Joe,
Did the author give you permission to post that piece here?


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## SolaScriptura (Apr 27, 2005)

I don´t have much time, but I´d note the following:

1. I agree that I´ve read that many of "“ but not all "“ the Fathers (prior to Augustine) wrote against what we call Calvinism. In spite of this, Polycarp, Clement of Rome, Ignatius"¦ these are three of the folks whose works I have read and their epistles, especially the salutations, are just as Calvinistic sounding as anything Paul writes! However, even if many of the Fathers do write against it, all this proves is that the doctrine was in existence at that time! So one cannot argue that it is a novel invention. 
2. That those Fathers wrote against it is moot. I´d be the first in line to say that the truth got lost VERY rapidly! Consider the views of the gospel and how quickly it became tied to baptismal regeneration! Consider the Christology of the early church! Consider the Trinitarian views of many in the early church! Also"¦ (and I assume that he is a Baptist"¦) I wonder what he thinks of the fact that from virtually every historical source infant baptism appears to have been the practice of the patristic church"¦ So in the light of all this stuff from church history with which he would probably disagree, I think he is being very selective in his appeal to the authority of the views of those in the early church.

[Edited on 4-27-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## Robin (Apr 27, 2005)

Hey Joseph,

First off, just because nobody has "refuted" his points is proof his points are correct.

Second, the burden of proof is upon the Arminian to demonstrate from Scripture the doctrine in question. Take each doctrine one at a time....

Don't even go to the "Calvin vs. Arminian" debate....demonstrate from Scripture what it says about a particular doctrine. (Tip: use the Heidelberg or Belgic catechism/confessions w/ Scripture references. They are superb summaries of what the Bible says about each doctrine!)

The pure Gospel thread from the Apostle's teaching is unbroken....Calvin is a student of Paul. No matter how iffy the Fathers are (and they do get "out there" a lot) the Canon is closed - and is a perfect Word to the reader of God's self-revelation.

I have to chuckle and remember Matt's former post -- "Here are all the Arminian verses in the Bible: ________________________."

I preface any debate with an opponent by honestly asking, are they willing to change their point of view if they discover it is different from the Word of God? Sincerely, caringly....if they will not consider this important question, I (in good conscious) cannot waste time in "arguments about words" with those who are intellectually dishonest.

Of course, more can be said....

Robin


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