# New Archbishop named



## arapahoepark (Nov 11, 2012)

Justin Welby, Bishop of Durham, now named next Archbishop...perhaps I am late to finding this out, but what are your thoughts if I may ask?


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## matt01 (Nov 11, 2012)

arap said:


> Justin Welby, Bishop of Durham, now named next Archbishop...perhaps I am late to finding this out, but what are your thoughts if I may ask?




About what in particular? I am not an Anglican, so I have not given his appointment much thought...


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## py3ak (Nov 11, 2012)

As far as I can tell, the Anglican church would have been better off with NT Wright, the previous Bishop of Durham, being elevated.


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 11, 2012)

py3ak said:


> As far as I can tell, the Anglican church would have been better off with NT Wright, the previous Bishop of Durham, being elevated.



Er... swings and roundabouts my friend.

Of the 'choices' available (you have to BE a bishop, not an ex-one), Welby seems just about the best choice.

He can communicate with the ordinary man in the street, and he is largely conservative.

He favours women bishops, but that's only consistent if you favour female priests also. I don't agree with him on this of course.

Time will tell, but I'm optimistic that we might actually have an ABC who is converted.


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## py3ak (Nov 11, 2012)

Jonathan, I understand that NT Wright wasn't available, and I'm encouraged by your optimism about AB Welby. I was just giving my sense of where he stands, relative to an Anglican whose positions are likely to be well-known to our membership.


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## Peairtach (Nov 11, 2012)

*Daily Telegraph*


> He underlined his support for the Church’s opposition to gay marriage but added: “I know I need to listen very attentively to the LGBT [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender] communities, and examine my own thinking prayerfully and carefully.



He may - or may not - be converted, but he doesn't sound anything special if he really thinks he can prayerfully consider his position on homosexuality.



> Bishop Welby, 56, made his remarks in his first public appearance since being officially confirmed as the next Archbishop of Canterbury. In a relaxed and confident performance he said he spoke of his belief that Britain could be coming back to faith after years of declining congregations.
> 
> He said he was “utterly optimistic” about the future of the Church, insisting that “the tide of events is turning” and that he was taking over at a time of national “spiritual hunger”.



Either he's a prophet who knows something other Christians don't, he's a blind optimist, or he's havering.


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## Somerset (Nov 11, 2012)

He does seem to be wobbling on homosexual "marriage" - but that seems to be part of joining the establishment. I've posted before about our current home secretary who was sound on moral issues until she take up her post.

The new Abp spent several years as an executive in the oil industry. As far as I know, he is the first to have had another career (excluding those who became ministers after war time military service). As such, I think he might be able to do something about the financial crisis of the CofE. As Jonathan says. he seems able to communicate with ordinary people - so perhaps he will be able to do something about the decline in attendance at the CofE - current average membership age is 61.


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## Rufus (Nov 11, 2012)

I think it's a step in the right direction. I do not think John Welby is the best the Anglican Communion has to offer, however it's a step in the right direction.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 11, 2012)

Rufus said:


> I do not think John Welby is the best the Anglican Communion has to offer,



Though I am a bit ignorant on a lot of of the bishops, it seems proper to me to ask, "what's the best the AC has to offer anymore?"


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## Philip (Nov 11, 2012)

arap said:


> Though I am a bit ignorant on a lot of of the bishops, it seems proper to me to ask, "what's the best the AC has to offer anymore?"



Henry Luke Orombi, Archbishop of Uganda would be a good one to look up.


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## Edward (Nov 11, 2012)

arap said:


> "what's the best the AC has to offer anymore?"



For CofE, Sentamu of York? If you want worldwide, there are a number of candidates, including a few in the US.


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## PhilA (Nov 12, 2012)

JonathanHunt said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I can tell, the Anglican church would have been better off with NT Wright, the previous Bishop of Durham, being elevated.
> ...




I have no doubt at all that George Carey was converted. That being said I was disappointed in his lack of impact as ABC. Probably due to the highly politicised nature of the office. 



py3ak said:


> Jonathan, I understand that NT Wright wasn't available, and I'm encouraged by your optimism about AB Welby. I was just giving my sense of where he stands, relative to an Anglican whose positions are likely to be well-known to our membership.



I hope his appointment will be an improvement but I will not be holding my breath. When the bookies called who the next ABC would be it was reported that he was pro-women bishops and against the re-definition of marriage. By the time of the official announcement his supporters were confirming his position on women’s bishops but starting to back-track on his opposition to the re-definition of marriage. 

ABC’s inevitably are the compromise candidate acceptable to the majority of interested parties. There are exceptions, Ryles’s recommendation as Bishop of Liverpool by the outgoing Disraeli was said to purposefully spite Gladstone. 





arap said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > I do not think John Welby is the best the Anglican Communion has to offer,
> ...



My first thought was.......a highly visible green sign over an internal door marked “EXIT”.

From my experience there are a few “low” churches that do preach the Gospel but these tend to hold charismatic leanings. 

Many years ago I had the privilege of attending a church that was thoroughly “Calvinistic” but I would see that as the exception. Even then care had to be taken to ensure that the church stayed below the radar of the church authorities so as to not attract unwelcome attention.


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## Supersillymanable (Nov 12, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> He underlined his support for the Church’s opposition to gay marriage but added: “I know I need to listen very attentively to the LGBT [Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender] communities, and examine my own thinking prayerfully and carefully.



I think this is less that he's wavering over the issue, and more he has to sound like he's listening to their concerns, otherwise he hasn't a chance. As it has been mentioned already, being the ABC is a highly politicized position. That's not me justifying pandering to the tactics of the LGBT lobby (which happen to sometimes be cruel, intimidating etc), but if he simply came out saying he was thoroughly against the redefinition of marriage and that practicing homosexuality was abhorrent, the media would have a field day and send him packing most likely... It's saddening that the whole of our society has become so "tolerant" that it's now actually demanding that we all be tolerant, lest we be sued for unlawful discrimination (because that's so thoroughly tolerant right?).


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 12, 2012)

And when all's said and done, 'by their fruits ye shall know them', so we shall see!!


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## yeutter (Nov 12, 2012)

*not enthusiastic about the new ABOC*

Personally, I thought the Rt. Revd. Richard Chartres would have been a better choice. 
The Lord Bishop of Durham was a guest speaker at the Episcopal House of Bishops meeting last March. He revealed himself to be all into_ Indaba _which is a bunch of supposed African nonsense about reconciling opposing points of view. It is rank Hegelianism. The Lord Bishop could not discern the Episcopal Church is "only liberal, monochrome, in its theological stance."
One hopes the orthodox Anglican Primates, like the Most Revd. Nicholas Okoh, will call upon the Rt. Revd Richard Welby to affirm the faith in clear unequivocal language.
The best source for following developements in the Anglican Communion is VirtueOnline - News


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## Peairtach (Nov 12, 2012)

That DT article in full:
New Archbishop Justin Welby pledges re-think on gay relationships - Telegraph


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## yeutter (Nov 12, 2012)

In the late 1970s many conservatives walked out of the Episcopal Church. The conservatives dislike the new liturgy, Rite 2, in the 1979 Book of Common Prayer. Rite 2 is not closely related to the historic Anglican liturgy, but more closely resembles the post Vatican 2 Romish Mass. The conservatives refuse to recognize the ordination of women as legitimate. Because the Archbishops of Canterbury and York and the Church of England continue to recognize and maintain fellowship with the Episcopal Church the conservative Anglican Continuing Churches refuse to recognize the Archbishop of Canterbury and derisively refer to those in fellowship with him as part of the cult of Canterbury. Perhaps it is appropriate that this thread is in the Church history section. Sadly a once great Church has apostatized and is now sailing into oblivion.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 12, 2012)

Edward said:


> arap said:
> 
> 
> > "what's the best the AC has to offer anymore?"
> ...



Did not know they could choose from outside the UK


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## Bill The Baptist (Nov 12, 2012)

Too bad J.C. Ryle is dead, he would make a great Archbishop. http://www.churchsociety.org/publications/tracts/CAT004_RyleRitualism.pdf


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 12, 2012)

yeutter said:


> Personally, I thought the Rt. Revd. Richard Chartres would have been a better choice.



No way. He might be consistently against the ordination of women, but he has no evangelical credentials at all. And 'evangelical' is not a swear word here in the UK.

Politically, he would never have been chosen because the ordination of women is a done deal, and he has never ordained a woman.


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## yeutter (Nov 12, 2012)

*Consecration of women bishops*



JonathanHunt said:


> yeutter said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I thought the Rt. Revd. Richard Chartres would have been a better choice.
> ...



So we will get an Archbishop who will ram women bishops down the throats of the conservatives in the Church of England, both Evangelical and Anglo-Catholic who can not in good conscience accept them. The selection of the new Archbishop would seem to make schism inevitable.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Nov 27, 2012)

NT Wright on recent Church of England (CoE) decision to deny ordaining women bishops:


Fulcrum: It's About the Bible, not Fake ideas of Progress


Doug Wilson at his usual witty best in response:

1. Squeezing Harder Than That

2. Fresh Butter at Ephesus

3. Serious Scholars Clown Car Review | N.T. Wrights and Wrongs

Wilson's responses were wonderfully crafted. You will laugh to yourself a few times.


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## bookslover (Nov 27, 2012)

JonathanHunt said:


> Time will tell, but I'm optimistic that we might actually have an ABC who is converted.



Wow! What a concept!


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## arapahoepark (Nov 28, 2012)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Too bad J.C. Ryle is dead, he would make a great Archbishop. http://www.churchsociety.org/publications/tracts/CAT004_RyleRitualism.pdf



Ryle is rolling over in his grave.


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