# Is this a pipe dream - "missions support" for bi-vocational pastors?



## Pergamum (Jul 19, 2009)

I know many faithful men who pastor and also have to work at least 30 hours per week. Wow, I have a real respect for our bi-vocational men, but cannot imagine how hard it must be.

I wish there was a way to support these pastors like we would missionaries, such that they could focus more on the ministry.

What could be done in a collective way and are there such networks that help to fund pastors of small congregations such that they could labor in the ministry exclusively.

This is sometimes done for new church plants. But what about older, established plateauing or declining churches?


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## Ivan (Jul 19, 2009)

You have my ear, brother. I would LOVE to be focused exclusively on the ministry. I have considered attempting to garner support and become full-time in the ministry but I'm not sure how to go about doing that. 

I work 48 hours a week at Walmart as an assistant manager, as most of you know. It is a struggle to get all the things done that I need to do in the ministry. It definitely affects my effectiveness. 

Thing is, if we had good health insurance I'd go full-time with what the church pays me and what my wife makes as a nurse. It would be far less than what we make now, but it would be enough. 

What to do? I'm listening to all advice here. Bring it!


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## LawrenceU (Jul 19, 2009)

This is something that we have been discussing in the Underwood house for a while now. There are bi-vocational pastors who do it out of a theological/philosophical conviction and then there are those that do it out of financial necessity. I am current working 60 hours each week in a 'regular' job to keep the bills paid and to secure health insurance. The church pays be a bit and Lord willing it will be more in time. I would love to be able to devote that 60 hours among my family and the ministry of the church. 

We have been thinking of contacting other churches that we know and individuals that we know to see about setting a network of support together. But, we haven't started that yet.


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## Pergamum (Jul 19, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> This is something that we have been discussing in the Underwood house for a while now. There are bi-vocational pastors who do it out of a theological/philosophical conviction and then there are those that do it out of financial necessity. I am current working 60 hours each week in a 'regular' job to keep the bills paid and to secure health insurance. The church pays be a bit and Lord willing it will be more in time. I would love to be able to devote that 60 hours among my family and the ministry of the church.
> 
> We have been thinking of contacting other churches that we know and individuals that we know to see about setting a network of support together. But, we haven't started that yet.



That is exactly what I was thinking. If a church is part of an association, if each church voluntarily puts a little in the pot, then the association as a whole could be strengthened and new church plants financed, and the bi-vocational guys freed up. 

The early church seemed to distribute their goods quite liberally, I think we are FAR from that NT standard in our gnerosity, and if we were, in fact, even half this generous than the church could better thrive and more pastors could focus more on souls.

-----Added 7/19/2009 at 09:15:21 EST-----

P.s.:



Part of the motivation for my post is this: I live on mission support. I am not lacking. 

However, sometimes I do to churches and they want to give me money and yet are not supporting their own pastor. This makes me feel rather weird. 

Although I would not want all foreign missions support to dry out until the American chuch was ready to support its own pastors first, I cannot imagine that in this rich nation there is not enough for both, if Christians merely tithed or even came somewhat close to regular giving.


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## JonathanHunt (Jul 19, 2009)

Pergs, you have got ME thinking with this one. AS a church, we say we cannot support a pastor, but we must be pumping out at least a third of a pastor's salary to missionaries!

Which comes first? I'd never stop the missionary support, but if you were starting from scratch, what would be the first priority? Supporting the pastor or supporting missionaries?


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## Ivan (Jul 19, 2009)

Going about asking for support from fellow churches for the support of the pastor isn't normal procedure in Southern Baptist churches. Plus, I'd feel strange asking for support of *ME*. Probably would be much better if the *CHURCH* ask for the support. 

Right now, if we weren't building our first building, the church could probably support me for about three years. If the church sold the six acres it owns they could support me for many years, Of course, we wouldn't have a building and that is, I think, one of the necessary steps to getting to full-time status. 

It's an interesting concept though, garnering financial support for the bi-vocational pastor in order to devote all his time to the ministry. I'd appreciate any ideas on this matter. There are a couple of PB members that could see why this morning why I'm so interested!!


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## CharlieJ (Jul 19, 2009)

I think it would be somewhat problematic for Baptists. At the very least, it would compromise the "autonomy" of that pastor. I know that missionaries have to deal with the same problems, but missionaries are usually far enough away that their day-to-day activities and disillusioned ex-members don't get the ear of the supporting churches. 

I'm not saying that it would be wrong, only that it would involve that pastor in certain entanglements, and that he should consider what is the real "price" of being financially supported.


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## Ivan (Jul 19, 2009)

CharlieJ said:


> I think it would be somewhat problematic for Baptists. At the very least, it would compromise the "autonomy" of that pastor. I know that missionaries have to deal with the same problems, but missionaries are usually far enough away that their day-to-day activities and disillusioned ex-members don't get the ear of the supporting churches.
> 
> I'm not saying that it would be wrong, only that it would involve that pastor in certain entanglements, and that he should consider what is the real "price" of being financially supported.



Actually Baptists, at least Southern Baptists, do this already with new church starts and church planters. In my case, it's an established church that needs a full-time pastor but can't afford one. I'd need at least twice as much as I'm getting to have enough to live on. Personally, I'd make sure there weren't any "autonomy" issues.


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## BJClark (Jul 19, 2009)

It appears many are also working to help provide health insurance benefits, Don't the Denomination's have insurance for it's employees? 

I found these online..

Health Insurance Pastors | Health Insurance

Health Insurance for Ministers, Missionaries, and Pastors | Health-Insurance.org

pastorsandclergyassociation.com - Home

Missions to North America

healthinsurance

Long Term Disability | PCA Retirement & Benefits, Inc.

Praisegod Barebones: Changes to Guidestone's Health Savings Account

Insurance


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## Ivan (Jul 19, 2009)

BJClark said:


> It appears many are also working to help provide health insurance benefits, Don't the Denomination's have insurance for it's employees?



Not an employee of the denomination. One can get insurance through Guidestone, but you pay for it.

-----Added 7/19/2009 at 09:51:44 EST-----



BJClark said:


> I found these online..
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Pergamum (Jul 19, 2009)

JonathanHunt said:


> Pergs, you have got ME thinking with this one. AS a church, we say we cannot support a pastor, but we must be pumping out at least a third of a pastor's salary to missionaries!
> 
> Which comes first? I'd never stop the missionary support, but if you were starting from scratch, what would be the first priority? Supporting the pastor or supporting missionaries?



Imagine how I feel. I come through once and they pledge to help me, and the pastor stays behind and reports into work the next day. It would hurt me, but I do think that the pastor gets first dibs... and I do think there is plentous resources available in most churches of even 30-40 people to fully support a pastor AND missions.

-----Added 7/19/2009 at 10:22:17 EST-----

Just 10 breadwinners, earning 30,000 USD per year and tithing can support a pastor at 30,000 USD per year. 10 more and the building is paid for. 10 more and missions is paid for. Maybe that's simplistic, but you get the picture....even a mere tithe and a proper prioritization would fund most needs.


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## LawrenceU (Jul 20, 2009)

And, that my friend is the problem. The vast majority of Christians, even those attending solid churches, give next to nothing. I'm not talking 5% either; more like .5 - 1.2% if at all. Couple that with wacked out fiscal priorities in a lot of churches and you have a bad situation.


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