# Did God Create Evil?



## Romans922 (Feb 26, 2009)

Did God create evil OR is it just the necessary opposite of good?


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## Davidius (Feb 26, 2009)

Evil is not a metaphysical substance. If we leave natural evil to the side ("calamities of nature") and talk about evil acted out by human beings, evil is an act of the will directed against God's law. Since God ordains all things, then it seems to follow that God "created" evil in the sense that he ordained sin.


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## charliejunfan (Feb 26, 2009)

Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.


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## Romans922 (Feb 26, 2009)

charliejunfan said:


> Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.



"Creating Evil" there seems to be pointing to the Lord bringing judgment. A word commonly used there for evil is 'calamity'. A judgment brought about by the Lord for a nation's sin.

Calamity can always be termed 'evil'. Here this calamity is good, God makes it happen.

But evil cannot always be termed 'calamity.' 

So Is. 45:7 does not answer the question. Was evil created?

"The work of creation is God's making all things of nothing, by the word of his power, in the space of six days, and all VERY GOOD."


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## charliejunfan (Feb 26, 2009)

cool!


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## BobVigneault (Feb 26, 2009)

He took equal parts of snips, snails and puppy dog tails and put them in a big pot - stirred them up - and out poured evil!

...... and little boys.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Feb 26, 2009)

Davidius said:


> Evil is not a metaphysical substance. If we leave natural evil to the side ("calamities of nature") and talk about evil acted out by human beings, evil is an act of the will directed against God's law. Since God ordains all things, then it seems to follow that God "created" evil in the sense that he ordained sin.





I like Augustine's description as a "bending of the will away from God" toward "external things."


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## KMK (Feb 26, 2009)

Here is a relevant quote from Rev Winzer from this thread:http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/no-mere-permission-44346/


> "Permission" tends to be used in the context of the work of providence in relation to sin. It is no idle or bare permission because it is decreed by God and therefore is a certain event; but, so far as the execution of the decree is concerned, God is not the actor of sin; He allows it to be done by means of secondary causes and overrules it for His glory. *The Confession of Faith speaks of God being pleased to permit the fall (6:1), where there is an acknowledgement of secondary causes in bringing sin into the world, but also a clear rebuttal of idle permission by indicating that the fall took place according to the good pleasure of His will.*


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## ExGentibus (Feb 27, 2009)

Bare permission is contrary to God's attributes of omniscience and omnipotence. An all-knowing and almighty being cannot "let something happen", so to speak, without _willing_ it to happen, for not acting to prevent something is, for him, equivalent to an act of will. Now, God not only is omniscient and omnipotent, but He also says "My counsel shall stand, and I will do all my pleasure" (Isa. 46.10). This is why I am quite comfortable with the WCF's wording in VI.1 "This their sin, God was pleased, according to His wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to His own glory." 
So, I would say that God did not "create" evil as a metaphysical substance, but ordained it as the "necessary opposite of good."


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## Webservant (Feb 27, 2009)

So perhaps evil and sin are not always the same thing?


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## panta dokimazete (Feb 27, 2009)

My thoughts:

Natural "evil" and sin "evil" are 2 different things - Natural is a result of sin, since no natural calamity could affect us, pre-Fall.

Also - sin and evil is not good, therefore is not-God or not-of-God. It is the state of absence (willfully on the part of the created or Creator) of God's immediate sustaining loving influence and abiding loving presence. This state is only possible in the natural creation (temporally) and Hell (eternally).

The introduction of this state to the natural Creation has a pervasive and corruptive influence, initiated by the creature and *allowed* by the Creator to serve the greater good, namely to glorify God through glorifying the Son as Judge, Savior and Redeemer.

Evil, while not-of-God, is still bounded and directed by God to serve the purpose of God's plan for creation. Remove His constraining loving presence and the Creation would be as Hell.

In other words, God does not "create" evil anymore than an absence of light "creates" darkness.


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## panta dokimazete (Feb 27, 2009)

Adding a thought - the absence of God's loving presence does not necessitate an absolute absence of God's presence - quite the contrary - in the absence of God's loving presence is the overwhelming presence of His justice, which, because all things were created to be sustained by His love, results in suffering by the created. The removal of this loving presence results in suffering that is directly proportionate to the value of the object of wrath.

This, to me, explains how Christ was still God, even when the Father forsook Him. Christ was God in the sense He was still connected to the Godhead by the presence of God's justice, but removed from the presence of the Father's love. Christ "bore the brunt" of this suffering - the temporal effect was the death of His mortal body - the eternal effect was the suffering of the eternal uncreated Son for the redemption of the created elect.


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## Zenas (Feb 27, 2009)

We can understand the principle the Confession speaks of in light of Joseph and what befell him. While what his brothers did was sin and wrong, God ordained it and it was His purpose that it occurred.

Some might propose that God then caused evil, but this isn't the case. The maxim espoused by Joseph underscored the principle at work here, "[Y]ou meant evil against me, but God meant it for good...". While the immediate works of the brothers was evil, God's work in the long-run was good. What happened to Joseph, from God's perspective and plan, was not the end. The end was beginning the work of building His people and His nation and God used the evil of His brothers to bring about that consequence.


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## Ginny Dohms (Feb 27, 2009)

I am one of many who are reading through Calvin's Institutes for the 500th anniversary. 

Calvin 09 - Read The Institutes

He dealt with this question in much detail in Book 1, and says it much better than I could

Center for Reformed Theology and Apologetics


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## Wanderer (Feb 27, 2009)

Webservant said:


> So perhaps evil and sin are not always the same thing?



I do not equate evil to be sin. And I don't think scripture equate the two. 

Any how check on these verses.

1 Samuel 16:14-15 But the Spirit of the LORD departed from Saul, and an evil spirit from the LORD troubled him. And Saul's servants said unto him, Behold now, an evil spirit from God troubleth thee. 

Also, one thing I notice here is that once the Lord left Saul, and evil spirit came from God.

I truely wander if the spirit was from God, or did it come do to the lack of God being with Saul.

Meaning, when you turn out the light, the fact that the darkness comes is only due to the fact that the light is gone. The light itself did not necessarily cause the darkness to return, other than it being absent.

May Jesus Christ the Light of the World shine brightly in your life, dispelling all darkness.


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## JOwen (Feb 27, 2009)

charliejunfan said:


> Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.



The text quoted above does not, I think, teach that God "created evil" in the moral sense. Rather, I think it means, "war", as opposed to "peace". 

JFB- "create evil - not moral evil (Jam_1:13), but in contrast to “peace” in the parallel clause, war, disaster (compare Psa_65:7; Amo_3:6)."

John Gill- "'evi'" is also from him; not the evil of sin; this is not to be found among the creatures God made; this is of men, though suffered by the Lord, and overruled by him for good: but the evil of punishment for sin, God's sore judgments, famine, pestilence, evil beasts, and the sword, or war, which latter may more especially be intended, as it is opposed to peace; this usually is the effect of sin; may be sometimes lawfully engaged in; whether on a good or bad foundation is permitted by God; moreover, all afflictions, adversities, and calamities, come under this name, and are of God; see Job_2:10".

Matthew Henry- "and I create evil, not the evil of sin (God is not the author of that), but the evil of punishment."

Blessings!


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