# How does God guide us?



## Caroline (Mar 1, 2013)

I am deeply involved in an article of increasingly epic proportions (it is threatening to turn into a book, because I lack the gift of concise composition), and one of the nagging questions about it is this:

How does God guide us?

One guy (we'll call him Bob) argues that guidance involves the work of the Holy Spirit in our lives. For example, if a man feels called to ministry, he might say that he feels an internal call--a longing or sense of compulsion to become a minister. However, Bob notes, that is not enough. One must consider providential circumstances, the advice of others, and most of all, any specific instruction of Scripture. The Word of God, Bob says, is the final authority (if we feel okay about stealing, it doesn't make it okay to steal), but we can nevertheless pray with some expectation of God answering our prayer and giving us wisdom for particular situations, and ultimately, it is perfectly acceptable for a man to say, "I am reasonably certain that God is leading me into ministry." (Bob qualifies it 'reasonably' because he does not want to suggest that he or anyone else is infallible--there is always the possibility of being wrong about these things).

Bob's nemesis (we'll call him Harold) says Bob is a heretic, and that he is seeking revelation outside of Scripture. Harold says any guidance other than Scripture itself has to be classified as new revelation, which does not happen today. Therefore, a man cannot say, "I am reasonably certain that God is leading me into ministry," because he has no way of knowing that. We can only know what God specifically tells us in his Word. An man can properly say, "I want to go into ministry, and these are the reasons I think it is a good idea."

Bob says, "Well then why would we pray for God to lead us at all if God never leads us?"

And predictably, in moments, they are locked in a Fight to the Death, and they spend the next decade wrangling over it in lengthy Presbytery debates. (To be fair, this was mostly Harold's doing, as he just could not let go of the 'Bob is a heretic' slogan, once he had started humming that tune.) 

This is actually a real historic case, and a very significant one (although I have not included all the details, obviously). My point is merely this: I am very sensitive to claims of extra-biblical revelation, but in this case, I have to think Bob has a point. I certainly have heard ministers say that they felt that God led them into ministry. People pray for guidance in decisions all the time. It seems that there must be a level on which we expect God to answer and provide us with a sense of the proper way to go (although not in the form of an audible voice or any nonsense like that).

But what do you think? Would you vote with Bob or Harold?


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## rbcbob (Mar 1, 2013)

I believe that there is both the secret working of the Spirit as well as the thoughtful consideration of the Christian that leads to our choices. Sometimes these work together as in:

2 Cor 8:16 But thanks be to God who puts the same earnest care for you into the heart of Titus. 17 For he not only accepted the exhortation, but being more diligent, he went to you of his own accord.


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## Eoghan (Mar 1, 2013)

You can't do better than Chuck Vuolo in a series "God's Guidance in Decisions" http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?subsetitem=God%27s+Guidance+in+Decisions&subsetcat=series&keyword=Chuck^Vuolo&SpeakerOnly=true&currSection=sermonsspeaker&includekeywords= Somebody needs to give him a book deal. The whole area of guidance is a minefield with many being led by "inner urges" and personal desires - as you can imagine in some areas of life that is not a good idea.

Question is, is it ever a good idea?


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## Jack K (Mar 1, 2013)

Reading the Bible and praying for guidance should never be put at odds with each other. They are both ways we get our hearts in tune with God's heart... and when that happens, we usually make wise and godly choices.

The approach "Bob" takes sounds right, so long as he maintains the rule of thumb that Scripture is both the _first_ place we go to search for God's will and the _last_ word when we're uncertain. The Spirit, who wrote the Scriptures, is a living and active person and is God. Therefore, we ought to expect any correct reading of Scripture to line up with certain other things in our lives:
- We should expect our prayer, through the Spirit, to illuminate the Scritpures.
- We should expect the counsel of other believers who're also guided by the Spirit—and particularly our elders—to confirm our conclusions if we ourselves are truly being guided by the Spirit through the Scriptures.
- We should expect providential circumstances, which are controlled by God, to support our conclusions.

I feel for the concern "Herold" has, and I acknowledge that over-reliance on the counsel of others or providential circumstances can turn out badly because such things are easily subject to misinterpretation. But even if there's no continuing revelation there's still continuing _work_ of the Spirit, and to rightly understand his revelation we must be in tune with his work.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 1, 2013)

Because my name is Bob I'm going to have to jump in here and help your Bob out. I am not a theologian so I'm not going to use the usual technical terms.

Let's begin by thinking about how God guided the writing of Scripture. We call it the Word of God, and so it is, imbued with the authority and transforming power of the Godhead. Yet, we see the individual personalities of the human writers in each book of the Bible. We see the idiosyncrasies of Peter, James, Paul, Jeremiah, John and so on. How did this happen? God didn't begin superintending the writers as soon as they began to write, the men were "carried them along by the Holy Spirit" (2 Peter 1:21) at every moment of their entire lives. In fact, because God's sovereignty is infinite, not only were the writer's lives orchestrated to give us the inspired writings, but the other lives and events of other people effected and affected the human authors in such a way that not even a jot or tittle were the result of chance. Let's face it, God's sovereignty doesn't leave room for even one rogue molecule.

So we see from this that we are guided by being carried along by the Holy Spirit. Now what are the mechanics of this "carrying along" and how does God leave nothing to chance and yet hold us culpable and accountable for our actions. The key is found in the word "desires". The word "desire" and it's forms is scattered throughout Scripture. Our desires are the steering mechanism that God uses to carry us along. Man is free in his will but a slave to his nature because man's will serves his nature.

Here's an illustration:
At one time I had three beautiful Golden Retrievers and a lovely fenced little farm for them to run on. Let's say I put them outside the back door with the promise of a treat – a hunk of juicy STEAK. The three dogs stand in rapt attention as I lift the meat over my head. Mind you, there are no leashes on them, no leads or dog runs, nothing to constrict or control their movements – they are totally FREE to go anywhere they DESIRE.


I throw the first morsel to the right. Can you predict which direction the three dogs will go? If you chose a unanimous decision to go to the right then you are correct. Next I throw the steak to the left, the opposite of the first toss. Yes! You are correct again, this time they ran to the left. Next, to keep things fresh I toss the meat to the right again. I could have thrown it straight and long and of course the dogs would follow the meat. No matter how many times I throw a piece of meat and ANY direction, the dogs will follow - it is their NATURE.


The dogs are free to choose and free to move in any direction but they are in bondage to their NATURE. Our nature is the fountain of our desires and though our wills may be free in choosing, our wills are NOT FREE of our nature.

God guides us by controlling the events and "juicy treats" around us so that we choose the thing we desire the most.

Another illustration would be that of a marble following a groove. It is a marble's nature to seek out the lowest part of a groove because it's a slave to gravity. You and I can guide the marble without every touching it by controlling the groove that we wish it to follow. This illustration is much weaker because a marble has no desires but think of the groove as the things that we desire the most and it's God who controls it.

So the most important task we have is to cultivate right desires though meditation on the Scriptures and prayer. By reading God's Word we learn what He values and we are given a rule by which we can measure our own desires. In prayer (and suffering), we cultivate an intimacy with God that causes us to love those things He desires. We become more like Christ and develop a childlike dependency on the Father. The result is summed up in Psalm 37 - 

Trust in the LORD, and do good;
dwell in the land and befriend faithfulness.
Delight yourself in the LORD,
and he will give you the desires of your heart.
Commit your way to the LORD;
trust in him, and he will act.
He will bring forth your righteousness as the light,
and your justice as the noonday.
Be still before the LORD and wait patiently for him;
fret not yourself over the one who prospers in his way,
over the man who carries out evil devices!
(Psalm 37:3-7 ESV)

"Delight yourself in the LORD, and he will give you the desires of your heart." This is the summary of God guiding his children. As we absorb the Word of God we lean more and more toward Him. As we seek him in prayer our wills tend to blend, we seek his righteousness, we are controlled by the Spirit.

Reactions: Edifying 1


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## A5pointer (Mar 1, 2013)

I am more sympathetic to Harold's concern. I do not see a biblical case for believers to seek and expect special situational guidance from God. Given this I know several Bob's who are constantly seeking "god's will/direction". I see this as at best frustrating to those who can't find "it" and at worse potential to lead to destructive behavior in the name of being led by God. This spills out to many then receiving information from God regarding the life of another. This seems to me to be engaging in a form of pagan divination looking for secret words from god or gods.


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## Scott1 (Mar 1, 2013)

The cardinal rule is that the Holy Spirit speaks through Scripture.
There is some truth, but not complete truth in both (hypothetical) positions you mention.
And, there is always room for "extraordinary" (miracles) where God is indeed free to work outside of normal means. That's not ordinary, to be expected, but an infinite God can never be restricted by the finite creature's imagination of his ability.

The same God ordains ordinary means.

Nor is the extraordinary to be relied on as the ordinary by the creature.



> Westminster Confession of Faith
> I. Of The Holy Scripture
> 
> VII. All things in Scripture are not alike plain in themselves, nor alike clear unto all:[15] yet those things which are necessary to be known, believed, and observed for salvation are so clearly propounded, and opened in some place of Scripture or other, that not only the learned, but the unlearned, in a due use of the ordinary means, may attain unto a sufficient understanding of them.[16]





> X. The supreme judge by which all controversies of religion are to be determined, and all decrees of councils, opinions of ancient writers, doctrines of men, and private spirits, are to be examined, and in whose sentence we are to rest, can be no other but the Holy Spirit speaking in the Scripture.[24]





> V. Of Providence
> 
> III. God, in His ordinary providence, makes use of means,[10] yet is free to work without,[11] above,[12] and against them,[13] at His pleasure.






> Scripture proofs
> 
> [15] 2PE 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things: in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
> 
> ...


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 1, 2013)

Caroline said:


> Therefore, a man cannot say, "I am reasonably certain that God is leading me into ministry," because he has no way of knowing that.



This is a silly sentence and an even sillier sentiment.

The sentence that is being "said" is that there is reasonable certainty. But then the "reason" that is given as to why he CANNOT SAY SUCH A HORRIBLE THING is that he has no way of knowing that. So the standard for "reasonable certainty" is actually the "absolute certainty" that comes with knowledge? Hogwash and WRONG. The standard for "reasonable certain" is simply the apparent agreement of multiple strands of consideration.
For instance ... Take my belief that I am called to ministry. At the end of the day, I - nor anyone - can "know with absolute certainty" because we don't have revelation from heaven telling us. However, does that prevent me or others from saying that we are reasonably certain we are called to ministry? No. Why? Well...
I am reasonably certain that God has called me to ministry because - 1) I really want to do it, 2) multiple congregations (in 3 denominations!) and a Presbytery of my present denomination agree 2) I appear to have the mind and abilities and piety and zeal for it, 3) Doors to other vocations closed before me, doors to ministry opened, 4) For at least this season of my ministry, I am blessed with a track record of God having brought success in every venue in which I have found myself.

So, I am reasonably certain that God has called me to ministry. This is not the same as possessing absolute certainty based on an infallible Word of God addressing the situation.

We are rightly concerned about ongoing revelation and we should refute that notion. However, it seems to me that sometimes we develop positions that almost seem like Deism. I believe in a God who is alive, and engaged with his creation and so should you.

God works most often through the free actions of people. I invite you to read today's blog post from my site. Though the issue is not leading into ministry, the larger point of this thread (how God often works for his people) is touched on. Check it out. Oh God, why are you doing this to me?!


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## Shawn Mathis (Mar 1, 2013)

Having been a charismatic, I found the Reformed faith helping me tremendously in this area. I strongly recommend reading Adams' A Christian Guide to Guidance. 

[Another book recommended by a seminary professor (which I never got around to reading) is: Decision Making and the Will of God ]


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## Cymro (Mar 1, 2013)

I would in general agree with Ben, that there is a concurrence of providences which help to give credence to an inner desire.
If there is a spiritual Session, their guidance Is most valuable, necessary and biblical. There is also what Dr M. L Jones would call,
the deductive witness of the Spirit. The inner call must generally be ratified by the outer call of the local church, and tested and confirmed by
Presbytery. The gifts and calling must be obvious outside of the candidates persuasion.


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## A5pointer (Mar 1, 2013)

Shawn Mathis said:


> Having been a former charismatic, I found the Reformed faith helping me tremendously in this area. I strongly recommend reading Adams' A Christian Guide to Guidance.
> 
> [Another book recommended by a seminary professor (which I never got around to reading) is: Decision Making and the Will of God ]



You went back? No longer former?


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## sevenzedek (Mar 1, 2013)

Shawn Mathis said:


> Decision Making and the Will of God ]



I found this book very helpful as it really helped me to resolve the how-do-you-you're-hearing-God issue. The book can be boiled down to two statements that have really stuck with me: When God commands, we must obey. When God does not command, we have the freedom and responsibility to choose wisely.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 1, 2013)

sevenzedek said:


> When God does not command, we have the *freedom* and *responsibility* to choose wisely.



Two words that many in our culture believe are mutually exclusive!


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## py3ak (Mar 2, 2013)

First of all, hooray to the book idea.

Second, it is important to understand Harold's view as clearly and sympathetically as possible. To me it seems like a concise way to state the concern which clarifies materially what is involved is something like this. 

If we pretend to a knowledge _of God's will_ pertaining to our moral duty that is independent of or supplemental to Scripture, we have _de facto_ claimed access to revelation outside of Scripture; and in defending that as necessary, we have also _de facto_ denied the sufficiency of Scripture. Either God's word leaves me thoroughly furnished for every good work, including the knowledge of which good works I ought to engage in, or it doesn't.

To avoid the potential pitfalls of positing ongoing revelation concerning God's will, and to bypass unscathed all the superstition and bondage that can come about from depending on spiritual impulses, impression of texts on the heart, the _sortes Biblicae_ or a feeling of peace, I think it would be necessary to reply that God's word is sufficient; but that the application of that word to individual circumstances does require wisdom. Part of that wisdom is of course seeking the counsel of others in making sure that the moral requirements of God's word are met, but also for resolving cases of conscience. And consideration of providence is also essential in determining into what category we fall, so as to know what our duty may be. In many points our duty is all the same: but there are variations based on calling and station. And providence determines those. In connection with wisdom for the right application of Scripture and the discernment of providence, it is not incoherent to speak of the Lord leading us - but that leading is to be expected in the way of proper interpretation, solid and reasoned counsel, obedience, and providential interpositions. According to 1 Corinthians 7, I need a warrant to change my calling: if my calling is inherently evil, that's warrant right there; if my calling becomes impossible, that's warrant; if the course of obedience carries me ineluctably elsewhere, that's warrant; if the current situation is circumscriptive and circumstances come to permit a change, that's warrant; if the church requires my services in another capacity, that is also warrant.

If I have warrant, the approbation of others, satisfaction from Scripture that a course of action is not wrong, and the concurrence of providence, can I not say that the Lord has led? And yet I have not claimed revelation concerning God's will.

If you have access to James Durham's commentary on Revelation, he has a pretty extensive essay on calling to the ministry and clearness therein, as well a section about warrant for writing to edification. Later on he speaks about a minister's particular message to a congregation, and warrant for insisting on the same points multiple times. In all four of these topics what he has to say is probably quite relevant to what you are working through now, if not to the historic controversy in question (I'm not sure either Harold or Bob would fall entirely in line with Durham, and they quite probably were not aware of his writing), at least to the question of your own verdict upon them.


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