# Despair - the point of no return? Hebrews 6, 10



## dog8food (May 28, 2012)

I'm reading the Pilgrim's Progress and I'm at the part where Christian encounters Despair--a man locked up and irredeemable due to his knowledge of the Truth, yet continued down the worldly path of temporal pleasures. He is regretful, but can no longer be saved. The verses cited are Hebrews 6 "4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age and who have fallen away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace." and Hebrews 10 "26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God."

This touched me deeply because I fear I'm in this place. For the last 4 months I've been severely depressed. There is probably more than one cause: I feel incapable of independence at my age (29 living at home, feeling lots of shame), when I try to work a job where I feel no purpose, I have to quit due to panic attacks, I have ailments that are likely contributing to my mental state (and perhaps this is why I cannot function normally in society), but cannot be properly diagnosed or easily treated. Whenever I return home my symptoms intensify--maybe the altitude, or the climate, or I'm simply not supposed to be here, but I have no where else to go. I can't find joy in the Lord, He's not here anymore. I continue going to church and I'm seeing my elder counselor who is providing me with resources. I even tried brain-spotting therapy to find some kind of trauma in my life. 

Worst of all I'm in spiritual despair. I believe I came to the knowledge of the Truth about 10 years ago. It feels like my conscience keeps me from doing what's considered "fun" at my age...it's a good thing, but oftentimes I'm envious and angry that I didn't get to 'enjoy' my youth and come to a knowledge of convictions at a later age. I've blatantly sinned oftentimes as a result, of course with later remorse and a repentive heart. But now I don't enjoy anything anymore, not even the old hobbies. I can only see the limitations of things, not the freedoms. My family is worried for me, I stress them out. Nothing pleases. I keep reading the Word and going to Church. Lots of people are praying for me. Part of it could be my illness, but I don't know. I can't get out of this pit.

Is it true that some can remorsefully live the rest of their lives with a desire for redemption, yet barred from salvation due to irreversible and unforgivable mistakes? If so, I fear I'm there.


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## a mere housewife (May 28, 2012)

Dear Juan-Diego, I am sure you will receive much better advice than I could give, but this quote has been a comfort to me every time I've seen it copied out in my file, and I wanted to pass it along:

'No one who cries out for mercy is turned away. "The one who comes to me I will in no wise cast out." ' (Geerhardus Vos)

We don't have to figure all of these things out. Simply take them all to Christ. He is the hope for the most wretched of us, and never turns us away for any reason. 

One of the things I do when struggling with despair is to copy out a verse that encourages me to hope in God, and paste it up where I will see it numerous times throughout the day, and resolve that every time I see it, I will take myself and all my despair directly to God. Praying for you now.


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## Fogetaboutit (May 28, 2012)

I have known somebody who once felt the same way when they read Pilgrim's Progress. One thing you have to remember (assuming you are talking about the man in the cage in the interpreter's house) is that what has been denied to him was "repentance" not "salvation". I believe Bunyan was warning to not underestimate the power of indweling sin. God would not reveal himself to somebody grant him a repentance (a new heart) and them take it away from him, that would be unscriptural.



dog8food said:


> Is it true that some can remorsefully live the rest of their lives with a desire for redemption, yet barred from salvation due to irreversible and unforgivable mistakes? If so, I fear I'm there.



If the desire for redemption is real it will lead to repentance, not to say that we won't go through dark times where we have doubt and focus only ourself (try to make up for our failures and fail at it) and take our eyes away from Christ for a season. But there is nothing that we can do that could seperate us (the elects) from the love of God (Romans 8:38-39).

I know I might not fully understand what you are going through but you have to remember that the truths and promises of scripture are more powerfull than our feeling of hopelessness since scripture cannot be broken. The only tip I could give you is don't focus on the "shame" you mentioned, everybody should be ashamed of themselves, don't focus on what others might think or don't try to have the approval of men. The only approval you require is from God and that approval is "fully" found in Christ. Focus on all those whom God have moved to pray for you and it should give you some comfort to see that even when the road is bumpy you are not alone.

Praying God will bring you some comfort


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## Miss Marple (May 28, 2012)

"It feels like my conscience keeps me from doing what's considered "fun" at my age...it's a good thing, but oftentimes I'm envious and angry that I didn't get to 'enjoy' my youth and come to a knowledge of convictions at a later age."

I became a Christian at 21 and believe me, you aren't missing anything. I have no desire to return to the sins I "enjoyed" prior to my conversion. So don't kid yourself.


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## Miss Marple (May 28, 2012)

As I read my above post I hope not to seem harsh - just blunt!


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## Scott1 (May 28, 2012)

Ask God to focus your attention, affection and obedience on pleasing Him in the circumstances He has appointed for you, day-by-day.



> Matthew 6
> 
> 19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
> 
> ...


.


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## gordo (May 28, 2012)

I am sorry to hear you are feeling like this Juan. I was in a similar state a few years ago. I thought I was in the Hebrews 6:4 zone! Like you I also suffered from severe anxiety (and OCD). The Lord in His amazing grace healed me from my mental afflictions and at the same time filled me with a new zeal for serving God. Have faith in the Lord! Do not doubt that He is there for you and can help you. Doubt is satan trying to steer you astray into thinking you are lost. The Hebrews 6:4 zone is not where you are at in my limited opinion of what I know from your post. 

I will pray for you. God bless.


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## tarrda (May 28, 2012)

I hope this helps. I have been where you are and am still somewhat still in that place. That said, I also have been in much worse. I sought help through voluntary Hospitalization @ 5 months in Great Lakes Navy Hosp in the psyc ward, later after an Honorable Discharge,voluntary hospitalization again in a VA Hosp psyc ward about 2 months, later again voluntary hospitalization in a local hosp psyc ward 3 days 2 different times and just a few years ago again voluntary hosp in another psyc ward for about 10 days. Lots of diff meds. Most don't work and the ones that do don't work very well but I found eventually that the ones that work somewhat are better than the life of dispair and depression and panic.
All of this is due to depresion, anxiety and panic attacks, my panic attack lasted for at least 6 months constant all day and all night. 
All I could do is hold on to the Lord and suffer. This has been occuring off and on since @ 1971, after I joined the US Navy and started smoking marijuana and drinking a lot, our work days were about 18 hours each and I stopped sleeping enough to get into REM sleep. I also took speed and a few misc other drugs, but then I became a Christian In 1971 also and since then in spite of my ailment have worked 30.5 years in 2 jobs for the State, 1st as a Psyc attendent at a State Hosp then as a Disabled Vet rep and Employment service rep and Customer service rep, processing claims for UC Benifits. All during this time I was growing in the Lord through reading and studying my bible, attending church and listening to "good" christian ministers. 
While your life may not be as you would have it to be, know this, it is in the Lords hands. Through It all, I am really looking forward to departing and being with the Lord. In the meantime I have to live this life and I do thank Him in all things, for this is the will of God in Christ Jesus for me.
I have a lot of bad times, and some better times, and some good times. And some times where I just don't care about anything. but then eventually the joy of the Lord shines through and I know Heaven is in my future. And I find some interest in this life again. But, Thank God, I have no interest greater than departing and being with Him. I know this sounds gloomy but really it isn't so bad, I have found peace and know I have chemical problems in my brain, some have worse problems some have less, all in all, 2Ti 1:12 For this reason I also suffer these things, but I am not ashamed; for I know whom I have believed and I am convinced that He is able to guard what I have entrusted to Him until that day.


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## jwright82 (May 28, 2012)

You are obviously stressed out and that is natural. I too live with my mother. I know how stressful it can be. I am waiting to see if I can buy a place, a small place, and just that takes a lot of stress off of me. Learn to distinguish between stressors you can change eventually, like living with parents (1/3 of people our age are doing it so don’t feel alone), change and those that require more work. Change what you can and then deal with the rest.


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## tarrda (May 28, 2012)

oops one more thing, concerning the Heb scripture you are concerned about. If that were "your" case you would not have any concern about it. You just would not care. it would be meaningless nonsense. the fact that you are concerned about it is proof of the spritual life that resides in you and this is one of those "learning experiences" the Lord puts us through. 
I suggest you turn to a few reformed commentary's on the verse in question and read. Use your search engine for Reformed Commentaries and you will be helped greatly.


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## davenporter (May 28, 2012)

I struggled through depression for a few years after my conversion. I don't fully understand the grace that eventually brought me out of it , but I know that my joy was restored to me by the Lord. I don't think there's any easy answer, except to throw yourself at the Lord's feet in constant surrender, preach the gospel to yourself everyday. And it's not an instant fix, but healing does come by His grace, through His means. I hesitate to add this, because I am not trying to be insensitive, but ask God what He wills to teach you during this time of struggle. I think my own struggles with depression would have been a little less torturous if instead of crying, "why me?" I would have turned to the Lord in worship saying, "Blessed be the name of the Lord".


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## gordo (May 28, 2012)

tarrda said:


> oops one more thing, concerning the Heb scripture you are concerned about. If that were "your" case you would not have any concern about it. You just would not care. it would be meaningless nonsense. the fact that you are concerned about it is proof of the spritual life that resides in you and this is one of those "learning experiences" the Lord puts us through.



Agreed!


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## tarrda (May 28, 2012)

The Doctrine of Reconciliation-Arthur W. Pink Book Archive has a free commentary by AW Pink on Hebews that I think will be very helpful, as well as other reformed authors books for free reading on the net.


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## tarrda (May 28, 2012)

Welcome to the CCEL - Christian Classics Ethereal Library is another place I have found helpful for reformed/purtain material


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## OPC'n (May 28, 2012)

Hello, Juan. I'm a nurse who works on the intermediate floor of a neurology unit. I must first tell you that the brain has the least amount of medical data than any other organ or systems of the body. IT IS SOOOO complex. I must tell you that having an illness somewhere else in your body (I think you meant that?) can have a great impact on your brain. The brain produces chemicals that regulate the body and itself. If you have another disease somewhere in your body, this causes much stress which impacts your whole body including your brain. For example, bad stress causes inflammation in your vessels which in turn causes plaque buildup which can lead to a heart attack or stroke, it cause high blood pressure "the silent deadly disease", it can temporally increase you blood sugars....and the list goes on and on. 

But what it also can do is cause a temporary imbalance of the brain's chemicals.....the longer you have this stress the more harm it causes. Lots of Christians don't believe in anti-depressants because they say that the one using them is just not trusting in God or they have a horrible relationship with Him. Now while that can be true for some people (and turning away from God can cause the worse stress and depression known!!) it most of the time isn't true. Just as you would go to the doctor if another organ was suffering with an illness you must go to the doctor about your depression and get on some anti-depressant medication. Not every med works for everyone so you have to find the one that works for you and it can be a long process. If you don't treat your depression, you can't treat your stress about the other disease you have. 

The mind can also trick you. One day you might feel saved and the next day you don't feel it all. There is a verse which states that we can't trust our hearts or mind (can't remember which one it says) but what it means is that we have emotions that are triggered by the chemicals in our brain which can make your emotions go up and down and if you feel down and out especially for a long time you begin to doubt your salvation. But here is the thing....salvation is the belief that historically Jesus lived and died on that cross for you and forgave your sins, and that salvation isn't lost when we become depressed. 

If the chemicals in your brain are off, then you need some medication to put those chemicals back into your brain just like you would take medication for high blood pressure etc. Your brain IS an organ that also needs medicine from time to time. Your brain ISN'T a spiritual concept sitting inside your head. It can know spiritual things and enjoy many things but it as you know is a physical organ that can be damaged and needs medication and time for healing (btw the brain is one of the slowest healing organ but with lots of time can heal).

Not all depression is caused by life's trauma even if you were not traumatized as a child that does not mean you don't have true depression. Mental disease is real and it doesn't come from a bad relationship with God unless you have utterly turned your back on Him. Mental disease is as real as heart disease or kidney disease etc. 

I would encourage you to continue going to church, to continue praying, continue to reach out to your fellow brethren because that is your spiritual food which WILL NOT fail you and even though you might feel like it's doing nothing....it is! But PLEASE talk to your doctor about your depression and let him help you! I know many reformed Christians who are on anti-depressant meds and they understand that it isn't a lack of good spiritual health. What I do want you to remember is that you were bought and paid from by Christ and NOTHING not even you can separate you from Him because He's NOT willing to give you up.....you have no choice in the matter you are His and that's that.

I truly was at the bottom of sin and despair not too long ago and had decided that I was not a Christian and began to live as such.........God decided to make me extremely depressed because i had walked away from Him and just lately He reached down and snatched me out of that quicksand. Now my experience sounds different from yours because I did walk away from Him which caused my depression and no amount of meds could help me, but that was because my depression wasn't from a true mental disease.....like i said the medical field agrees that the brain is a very complex and least understood organ. Just understand where you are.....are you following God and doing as He commands?.....then your depression is truly a chemical imbalance. Or have you turned your back on Him which that would be the source of your depression which it doesn't at all sound like it is. OK, I'll shut up now  You're in my prayer, brother!


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## wraezor (May 28, 2012)

I would take a bit of a different approach than the previous poster (sarah)...

There are a multitude of ways our spiritual enemy can attack us. Thoughts and emotions are one of his prime tools. Some general suggestions (knowing very little about you or your situation).

- Surround yourself with Christian fellowship and relationships (not just once a week).
- Immerse yourself in the corporate means of grace (participate in worship, bible studies)
- Fast.
- Pray for help.
- Read Scripture.
- Sing Psalms.
- Speak with your leaders. Ask for assistance and follow their advice.

All these things will have the effect of pointing you to Christ. It's understandably easier in some ways to seek fellowship and counsel online, but there is a reason God has given us the Church. His Bride is where our souls primarily ought to be fed and strengthened as we await our King's return.


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## Mushroom (May 28, 2012)

Praying, brother. As mentioned, you wouldn't care at all if you were a Hebrews 6 apostate. You're not. Don't let the world, the devil, or your flesh keep you from attending to all the means of grace mentioned. We are easily distracted or dismayed. The Gospel is the treasure hid in the field, the pearl of great price; let nothing stand between you and Jesus. He purchased you at very great and precious price. He won't let go of you, don't you let go of Him. He won't allow that anyway - He will have what is His own.


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## chuckd (May 28, 2012)

Hey Juan, know that you are not alone. There are many people who have been through or are going through this very same thing. We are all one body and are here to share in your suffering. Heidi has some very sweet words and are comforting. Something that also helped me recently is John Owen's _Of Communion_:
_Christians walk oftentimes with exceedingly troubled hearts, concerning the thoughts of the Father towards them. They are well persuaded of the Lord Christ and his good-will; the difficulty lies in what is their acceptance with the Father, -- what is his heart towards them?_
...
_Communion consists in giving and receiving. Until the love of the Father be received, we have no communion with him therein. How, then, is this love of the Father to be received, so as to hold fellowship with him? I answer, By faith._


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## Peairtach (May 28, 2012)

Dear Juan,

When someone is mentally stressed or is suffering from clinical depression/anxiety, particularly if they are believers or from a Christian background, passages such as the ones you mentioned in Hebrews can be what they focus on.

If it was an unbeliever they might focus on something else.

I pray that you will seek and find all the help you need to get into a better frame of mind.

In the mean time continue to look to the Lord and attend the means of grace. Apart from grace we are nothing but sin. I know I am.

I suffered a lot from depression and anxiety in the past, possibly because of a bereavement in my childhood. We don't become immune to these things just because we are the Lord's, but some of the Lord's people are afflicted for a time with these things, just as some of those who are not the Lord's people are. 



> Who is among you that feareth the LORD, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the LORD, and stay upon his God. (Isaiah 50:10)


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## Scott1 (May 28, 2012)

God has provided for His people what reformed theology calls "the ordinary means of grace"-

the Scriptures
prayer
the sacraments

Through seeking these diligently one's faith and obedience will grow. If we neglect these and seek diligently INSTEAD intellectualism, pop culture, self absorption we will feel dry and drift and "feel" less close to God. What would one expect?

There is no substitute for the ordinary means of grace God has appointed.

There is no other ordinary way to know the special revelation of God.

And in using well the ordinary means He has appointed, one's assurance grows.

This is one particular useful attribute of the sabbath, the tendency to dedicate a portion of time unhindered where one might use the ordinary means, and enjoy them.


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## The Calvinist Cop (May 28, 2012)

When Paul said to the Philippians (4.4, 11), "Rejoice in the Lord always; and again I say, Rejoice......I have learned, in whatever state I am, in this to be content", Paul was a prisoner in Rome. 
It is the joy of one who counts it a privilege to have his faith tested because he knows the testing will draw him closer to the Savior.
Also, remember Charles Haddon Spurgeon had bouts of depression.

In Christ


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## dog8food (May 30, 2012)

Thanks so much for you input/vulnerabilities/perspectives. 
Yeah, this must be one of those big storms. I'll keep hanging on.


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## Jerusalem Blade (May 30, 2012)

Hello Juan,

Did you know that Bunyan also wrote _Grace Abounding To The Chief Of Sinners_, wherein he wrote of his own depression, fears of having violated the Hebrews 6 and other fearsome passages, along with desires to end his life, and how the Lord gave him understanding and comforting grace?

You are clearly not as the man in the cage, for you have afflictions of the soul and body – and a stressful living situation – and _not_ a life spent ignoring the Lord and His grace while without cease wallowing in the troughs of the world.

The devil is adept at whispering to us that we are cast off, and he (as well as our situations) may oppress us with heavy feelings, but the truth (the reality) is that your Savior has promised _never_ to leave you nor forsake you (Heb 13:5), and to be with you always, even unto the end of the world (Matt 28:20). What that means is that He is with you even now, His heart full of saving love specifically for you, one of His own covenant children who is in distress. As someone wrote above, Jesus said, ". . . him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out" (John 6:37), meaning that just having the desire to be loved and comforted by Him is clear proof that you are not in that cage, but rather afflicted and in need of Him.

If you have given your heart and life to Him, been baptized into Him by covenant command and promise, then it is of you He said, ". . . this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day . . . My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: And I give unto them eternal life, and they shall never perish, neither can any man pluck them out of my hand." (John 6:39; 10:27-28)

You, being in Christ, are reckoned by the Father as "holy and beloved" (Col 3:12), as you partake of Christ's merit, and your own faults and sins are not counted against you, as Christ bore them all for you. It is well with your soul, really, even though you may feel like a mess. You may walk with your God by faith, strictly in His word, disdaining your own "feelings" of being uncared for by Him. You may PM me if you wish to talk.

Check this out: View attachment 2884


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## Mushroom (May 30, 2012)

dog8food said:


> Thanks so much for you input/vulnerabilities/perspectives.
> Yeah, this must be one of those big storms. I'll keep hanging on.


Good, Juan. As a Pastor once told me over 30 years ago, "Sometimes ya just gotta hang and rattle."

What makes that possible is that Jesus will keep hanging on to you - and will never let go!


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## Jerusalem Blade (May 31, 2012)

Hello again, Juan,

It occurred to me while praying for you today that you could make a heroic stand in your situation. For instance, I have counseled people who said their lives were barren to have the living waters that are within them make the desert bloom, i.e., by faith rejoice that it is well with their soul, and that the joy of the Lord's presence with them is their strength (Nehemiah 8:10).

Lest this seem simplistic, remember that there are men and women in prison for their faithful testimony to Christ, and have no cause for gladness in their surroundings or their physical or emotional health, yet they know their God and Shepherd is with them, and that He is pleased with them and loves them with an everlasting love (Jer 31:3). In a sense, you are in a prison of affliction where there is little cause for rejoicing – as far as your circumstances are concerned.

So the key will be this: seek to find and keep that assurance of His joy in you (was this not the "joy that was set before him" that enabled Him to endure the cross (Heb 12:2): accomplishing _your_ rescue and salvation so you could eternally be with Him?), which is easily discerned by the many promises He has made you in His word. His word is true whatever appearances, feelings, and sensations may say to the contrary. *" . . . and this is the [heroic] victory that overcometh the world, even our faith"* (1 John 5:4)

From Alexander Nisbet's _Commentary on 1st & 2nd Peter_ (Banner of Truth), p. 25), *" . . . it being the nature of true faith to make the thing it closes with spiritually present to the soul."* 

I'll be keeping you in prayer.


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## Beau Michel (May 31, 2012)

Juan, a good volume that may help put your mind at ease and be of real comfort and spiritual benefit is John Bunyan's The Jerusalem Sinner Saved.It deals with those who suffer from despair and wonder if they have commited the unpardonable sin.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jun 1, 2012)

Juan,

Some further thoughts: You said "I believe I came to the knowledge of the Truth about 10 years ago" – by this I assume you mean you came to know Jesus. When I first was saved some 44 years ago I did indeed meet my Savior, but somehow I was led to believe His heart was critical and demanding if I would fall short of holiness and moral perfection (the influences of Finney and Wesley etc). So I embarked on austerities and spiritual performance in seeking to be approved by Him. In my many ignominious failures I also came to believe I was in Bunyan's cage. I backslid for a long while.

But the Shepherd keeps His own, and wins them back and enables them to walk godly. The key point for me was understanding His provision of righteousness for the unrighteous, of acceptance for the profoundly unworthy. And _slowly_ I became more sanctified in my life and ways. When I go to the Lord now I do not come in my own worth or merit, but covered with the robe of Christ's worth, as it were (clean in God's eyes by the precious blood!). This is a hymn I often sing in my morning quiet time:

Before the throne of God above 
I have a strong and perfect plea. 
A great high Priest whose Name is Love 
Who ever lives and pleads for me. 
My name is graven on His hands, 
My name is written on His heart. 
I know that while in Heaven He stands 
No tongue can bid me to depart. 

When Satan tempts me to despair 
And tells me of the guilt within, 
Upward I look and see Him there 
Who made an end of all my sin. 
Because the sinless Savior died 
My sinful soul is counted free. 
For God the just is satisfied 
To look on Him and pardon me. 

One with Himself I cannot die. 
My soul is purchased by His blood, 
My life is hid with Christ on high, 
With Christ my Savior and my God! 
Behold Him there the risen Lamb, 
My perfect spotless righteousness, 
The great unchangeable I AM, 
The King of glory and of grace.​ 

The Jesus you believe in and have given your life to came to save and not to condemn, to save and not to destroy, _*especially*_ those who put their trust in Him, despairing of anything good in themselves to commend themselves. He is as a kind and tender older Brother, given you by the Father to help you in your limping, faltering walk. He is _*not*_ a harsh taskmaster, demanding and impatient! He is as nurturing and gentle as a godly mother, desiring her child to grow into health and gladness of heart. Such a One is your friend and companion. He is not an accuser and prosecutor (another has that wicked role), for He Himself has done away with any condemnation due you, so that you are beloved in God's eyes, however much of a failure you are or think you are. This being loved without stint is the foundation of your life with God. Do you need discipline? Of course – we _all_ do! – and as a good Father He gives us what will bring us to health and godliness, but in God's family there are no "throw-away kids" as there are in some earthly families – He keeps all who are His. This is the Truth, and to know Him is life eternal.


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## The Calvinist Cop (Jun 2, 2012)

Juan, 
I am still praying for you brother, if you have the time try reading this: In the Dungeon of Giant Despair by Andrew McGowan | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org
David


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## sitdownicantsee (Jun 3, 2012)

Juan, the most powerful thing I can offer for help is prayer. I will pray for you; likewise, continue to pray fervently yourself, pray, some go into a closet and pray, others bathroom, bedside; be alone with Him, Juan.


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