# Has anyone else gotten this?



## Joseph Scibbe (Jul 13, 2009)

I was told a few days ago that "Any other Bible but the KJV is a conspiracy from Satan". Has anyone else heard this?


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## Poimen (Jul 13, 2009)

No but I pity those people in the world who don't speak English. I guess they will have to learn a new language in order to read and understand God's Word.


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## Caroline (Jul 13, 2009)

By United Pentecostals, yeah.

The story that I got was that in the KJV, 2 Peter 1:21 reads:

_For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but *holy men* of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost._

And the American Standard reads:

_For no prophecy ever came by the will of man: but *men* spake from God, being moved by the Holy Spirit. _

And the NIV reads:

_For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but *men* spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit._

Which goes to show that the KJV is the only holy version of the Bible.



PS Have you ever heard someone say, "If the KJV was good enough for Paul, it's good enough for me"? I mean, normally, I think people mean that as a joke, but I think one guy at my former church really thought that was an inspirational slogan ....


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## Rangerus (Jul 13, 2009)

I think most people fall between "I Like the KJV Best" category, and "The KJV As New Revelation" category. 

1. "I Like the KJV Best" 

They just like it because their church uses it or, because that's what mom and dad always used, or because they just like its style.

2. "The Textual Argument/Received Text Only" 

According to Wikipedia these TA/RTO are individuals who believe the KJV's Hebrew and Greek textual basis are the most accurate. These conclude that the KJV is based on better manuscripts. or that the traditional Hebrew and Greek texts are believed to be supernaturally preserved.

3. "The Inspired KJV Group"

Wikipedia says: Individuals in this group believe that the KJV itself was divinely inspired. They see the translation to be preserved by God and as accurate as the original Greek and Hebrew manuscripts found in its underlying texts. 

Sometimes this group will even exclude other language versions based on the same manuscripts claiming the KJV to be the only Bible.

4. "The KJV As New Revelation" 

This group of individuals would believe that the KJV is a "new revelation" from God, and can and should be the standard from which all other translations originate. Adherents to this belief may also believe that the original-language Hebrew and Greek can be corrected by the KJV. This view is often called "Ruckmanism" after Peter Ruckman, a staunch KJV supporter.


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## Dovecat (Jul 14, 2009)

*Many translations*



Unashamed 116 said:


> I was told a few days ago that "Any other Bible but the KJV is a conspiracy from Satan". Has anyone else heard this?



I moderate a theology channel on IRC and this topic crops up from time to time. I am always quick to respond that I have all the English translations in print on my shelf for comparison reading and understand that everyone has their personal favorite. My first bible was KJV (as were my early memory verses), the bible of my youth was RSV, the bible of my young adulthood was NIV and now I prefer the NASB and ESV, but I still read them all (and a few others). 

I have no problem with a person that wants to cleave to the KJV as long as they are READING it and LEARNING the truth therein. I only hope that a person that takes this stand doesn't make me out to be a heathen for preferring to drop the "thees and thous" 

"Jesus saith unto Him, I am the way, the truth, and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." KJV

"Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." NIV

"Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." ESV

"Jesus told him, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except through me". NLT

It's all golden!

John 14:6


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## JennyG (Jul 14, 2009)

*The law of unintended consequences*

To be fair I think the "conspiracy of Satan" thing, however inappropriately OTT in many/most contexts, is not completely without truth. It's a rather abrasive (and if ad hominem, then dreadfully uncharitable) shorthand for something important.
A generation or so ago there was only one Bible in English. It was much easier to memorise texts when they were always exactly the same, in fact it was almost impossible not to. To internalise his word must surely be the main reason God gave young children such a strong faculty of learning by heart. The very words of Scripture became an indelible part of people's thinking, even those without faith -- thus the culture as a whole had a spiritual foundation, now lost. 
Without saying there is no good to be got from comparing translations, &c, (though I do think there is a very strong case for the TR) -- WHO had most to gain by proliferating different versions until in the process, an overall collective Biblical consciousness was wiped out??


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## LawrenceU (Jul 14, 2009)

I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.


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## larryjf (Jul 14, 2009)

I've studied the issue a bit.
Firstly, if you are going to do some research, stay away from books by Riplinger and others who aren't scholarly on the subject. Stick to stuff like...

Pro-KJV

Theodore Letis - various resources
Edward Hills - The King James Version Defended

Anti-KJV

Daniel Wallace - Article
Daniel Wallace - Article

Other
Wilbur Pickering - The Identity of the New Testament Text


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## TimV (Jul 14, 2009)

> The very words of Scripture became an indelible part of people's thinking, even those without faith -- thus the culture as a whole had a spiritual foundation, now lost.



Hmmm...by reverting back to KJV only our whole culture's spiritual foundation will be restored? Sound's like an Anglican translation committee has taken the place of the Holy Spirit.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 14, 2009)

Yes, followed up with some rather lame comments. It usually makes me feel like I'm arguing with a Chick tract because the same reasons always get quoted.


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## John Weathersby (Jul 14, 2009)

James White has quite a nice presentation regarding the KJO position found here:
http://files.aomin.org/KJV1.ppt
...and a book now in it's second addition, book is a GREAT read and is very through:
Alpha and Omega Ministries
I hope these resources help you to be more informed regarding the position(s).


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## Reformed Thomist (Jul 14, 2009)

Unashamed 116 said:


> I was told a few days ago that "Any other Bible but the KJV is a conspiracy from Satan". Has anyone else heard this?



In all fairness, The Message and the Contemporary English Version probably are conspiracies from Satan.

True story: During my time in the RCC, a Jesuit priest once gave me a copy of The Message when I had confided to him that I was interested in Scripture scholarship!


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## baron (Jul 14, 2009)

I had an experience about ten years ago when looking for a new church, my wife and I went to a I.F.B.C. After the service I stopped to speak with the pastor and assistant. When they saw my Bible which was a NIV they went nuts. Started telling me that I was reading a book authored by Satan. All translations except KJV were Satanic. Then in a rather proudful way they told me they only use the Bible that Jesus and Paul used. I started to laugh so much taht I started to cry. When I was able to gain my composure I asked if either could read Hebrew or Greek and the answer was no. I new their answer was no before asking, because they also prided themselves that they needed no further education beyoud the Holy Spirit. They also informed me that we could not join their church and use a Satanic bible. That was fine with me.

Later on the way home my wife chided me for laughing at the two. I had to explain I was not laughing at them, but their statement claiming that Jesus and Paul only used the KJV. 

In another church we were attending they had a pastor who was filling in for the regular pastor who was on vacation. The fill in pastor told me and another deacon who was using a NIV that he should burn that Satanic bible. While burning that one we should also burn all the Pew Bibles because they were NASB. 

I have run into many who I call extreme KJV only. I try and avoid them when possible. There is no reasoning with them.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 14, 2009)

baron said:


> I had an experience about ten years ago when looking for a new church, my wife and I went to a I.F.B.C. After the service I stopped to speak with the pastor and assistant. When they saw my Bible which was a NIV they went nuts. Started telling me that I was reading a book authored by Satan. All translations except KJV were Satanic. Then in a rather proudful way they told me they only use the Bible that Jesus and Paul used.  I started to laugh so much taht I started to cry. When I was able to gain my composure I asked if either could read Hebrew or Greek and the answer was no. I new their answer was no before asking, because they also prided themselves that they needed no further education beyoud the Holy Spirit. They also informed me that we could not join their church and use a Satanic bible. That was fine with me.
> 
> Later on the way home my wife chided me for laughing at the two. I had to explain I was not laughing at them, but their statement claiming that Jesus and Paul only used the KJV.
> 
> ...


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## John Weathersby (Jul 14, 2009)

*hehe*

LOL that is classic, seems as though it would be the body cramping painful laughter! That's why all the Pauline Greek is SO difficult to translate, it's really the Kings English! Oh man, all the parsing and all the work to not even notice it was English all along. 

On a serious note it's somewhat of a bummer that people believe the KJV is the only inspired translation. Damaging to sheep.


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## JBaldwin (Jul 14, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.



 And I live near Greenville, SC


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## JennyG (Jul 14, 2009)

TimV said:


> > The very words of Scripture became an indelible part of people's thinking, even those without faith -- thus the culture as a whole had a spiritual foundation, now lost.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm...by reverting back to KJV only our whole culture's spiritual foundation will be restored? Sound's like an Anglican translation committee has taken the place of the Holy Spirit.



noooooooooo -- who said anything about reverting back, as if that were even possible? I'm afraid I expressed it badly. All i meant was that when that came to an end, a great deal more was also lost along with it. For eg, humanly speaking, it must have been easier to make an opening with unbelievers whose minds were already stocked with scripture. There was a common reference point. Sure a Biblically-literate society does not equal a converted and Godly one, but isn't it still on any computation preferable to what we have now? 
Secondly I don't think it's at all easy to remember texts word for word if you keep changing versions. 
I don't see how such considerations could fail to rejoice the heart of satan, however little he likes the renewed impetus given to study by fresh interpretations


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## Idelette (Jul 14, 2009)

baron said:


> I had an experience about ten years ago when looking for a new church, my wife and I went to a I.F.B.C. After the service I stopped to speak with the pastor and assistant. When they saw my Bible which was a NIV they went nuts. Started telling me that I was reading a book authored by Satan. All translations except KJV were Satanic. Then in a rather proudful way they told me they only use the Bible that Jesus and Paul used. I started to laugh so much taht I started to cry. When I was able to gain my composure I asked if either could read Hebrew or Greek and the answer was no. I new their answer was no before asking, because they also prided themselves that they needed no further education beyoud the Holy Spirit. They also informed me that we could not join their church and use a Satanic bible. That was fine with me.
> 
> Later on the way home my wife chided me for laughing at the two. I had to explain I was not laughing at them, but their statement claiming that Jesus and Paul only used the KJV.
> 
> ...



Wow, I am simply shocked by this!


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## Reformed Thomist (Jul 14, 2009)

Good thing the churches at Rome, Corinth, Galatia, et al, had King's English-to-Koine Greek translators on site, so said congregations could make sense of Paul's dispatches from London.


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## John Weathersby (Jul 14, 2009)

Reformed Thomist said:


> Good thing the churches at Rome, Corinth, Galatia, et al, had King's English-to-Koine Greek translators on site, so said congregations could make sense of Paul's dispatches from London.



I bet Jerome, the Pope, and Erasmus were behind the Kings English to Koine Greek translation work! And his dispatches would OBVIOUSLY not come from London, they'd come from the East Coast of the United States. Gezzz


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## Reformed Thomist (Jul 14, 2009)

John Weathersby said:


> I bet Jerome, the Pope, and Erasmus were behind the Kings English to Koine Greek translation work!



Ayuh. Leave it to those shifty Papists to go and corrupt God's pure, undiluted, Shakespearean Word by turning it into vulgar pagan Greek.



John Weathersby said:


> And his dispatches would OBVIOUSLY not come from London, they'd come from the East Coast of the United States. Gezzz



My bad. I keep forgetting that Paul's church, _Tarsus Baptist, SBC_, was located in Virginia.


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## Edward (Jul 14, 2009)

Unashamed 116 said:


> I was told a few days ago that "Any other Bible but the KJV is a conspiracy from Satan". Has anyone else heard this?



Did you denounce them for modernism? How could they turn from the traditional Breeches Bible?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 14, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.



So you and Peter Ruckman are best of buds, Aye?


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## Herald (Jul 14, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.



A year ago my daughter came home excited about a college she heard of in Pensacola. I was preocuppied and didn't give her my complete attention. A week later a catalog arrived from Pensecola Christian College. I was no longer preocuppied. I was able to talk some sense into her and wisdom vindicated herself by her deeds.

Whew!


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## Reformed Thomist (Jul 14, 2009)

Herald said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.
> ...



Good call. I think one can actually major in Anti-Calvinism there.


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## John Weathersby (Jul 14, 2009)

Herald said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.
> ...



LOL, yes, that would garner my attention as well! To scary. Cool that she would be excited about a Christian school, not so cool that it was that one. But that's why she has you to raise her up in the way that she should go, yes?

I keep thinking back to and laughing about what your expression must have been.


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## KSon (Jul 15, 2009)

Herald said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > I live close to Pensacola. Nuff said.
> ...



Being very familiar with the arguments of Ruckman, and the sort of legalistic-fundyism forwarded by PCC, I have been greatly edified by the scholarly, historical defenses of the AV put forth on this board by Rev. Winzer, brother. Weddle and Elder Rafalsky. The cogent, irenic presentation of the position made by these men dwell on the opposite end of the spectrum from what is coming out (and has been coming out for some time) of that part of Florida.


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## Grymir (Jul 15, 2009)

Liberalism, and any other attack on the Church is from the dark side. Especially when from within from the theologians who are supposed to protect us little people.

And there is some truth to the "Any other Bible but the KJV is a conspiracy from Satan". Although I would substitute "Some Bibles are a conspiracy from Satan". The Gender Neutral Bibles come to mind, as they definitely change God. (In the old days we would call that blasphemy)


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## Montanablue (Jul 15, 2009)

Yes.

I was once told by a member of the fundamentalist church I attended as a child/teen that the NIV was the tool of the devil and Christians who used it were not saved.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 15, 2009)

Montanablue said:


> Yes.
> 
> I was once told by a member of the fundamentalist church I attended as a child/teen that the NIV was the tool of the devil and Christians who used it were not saved.



They call it the Nearly Inspired Version


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## Knoxienne (Jul 15, 2009)

I'm a Received Text advocate, but I don't go as far as the Ripplinger crowd and other Satan-obsessed bible weirdos.


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## Reformed Thomist (Jul 15, 2009)

I've heard it referred to as the 'HIV' Bible.


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## Mark Hettler (Jul 15, 2009)

I did a fairly in-depth study of this subject for the church I was a member of at the time, about 10 years ago. You can find it here.

Mark Hettler's KJV Paper (requires Microsoft Word)

It's well footnoted with a lot of good resources. Probably the best is the James White book already mentioned.

If you want to hear the "Bibles other than KJV are a conspiracy of Satan" argument first-hand, Gail Riplinger's "New Age Bible Versions" is probably the "best", if you want to call it that.

Those more scholarly than Riplinger argue that the Greek manuscripts on which the KJV is based (Byzantine manuscripts) are supposedly more reliable than those on which modern versions are based (Alexandrian). To counter that, one of the best resources is Bruce Metzger's "The Text of the New Testament."

There is also the argument that if we are going to say that manuscripts discovered relatively recently, and used as basis for modern translations, are more accurate than the ones that have always been known (and on which the KJV is based), then God has not preserved His inspired word down through the centuries. It's actually a more compelling argument than my brief summary of it makes it sound, but I think my above-linked paper responds to it fairly effectively.


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## buggy (Jul 17, 2009)

I find the KJV to be a solid translation, if only the language was a bit old for us today. I prefer translations that are done word-by-word (formal equivalence?). I use the KJV and NKJV, and am thinking of buying the ESV study Bible.


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## William Price (Jul 17, 2009)

buggy said:


> I find the KJV to be a solid translation, if only the language was a bit old for us today. I prefer translations that are done word-by-word (formal equivalence?). I use the KJV and NKJV, and am thinking of buying the ESV study Bible.



You should. My church uses the ESV, and let me tell you, I love it! Matter of fact, I am looking at my ESV Study Bible rat now! Good study Bible, even if I do say so myself, and I do say so myself!


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## Montanablue (Jul 17, 2009)

Reformed Thomist said:


> I've heard it referred to as the 'HIV' Bible.



May I ask why? What was HIV supposed to stand for?


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## buggy (Jul 17, 2009)

Montanablue said:


> Reformed Thomist said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard it referred to as the 'HIV' Bible.
> ...



It's just a KJV-Only Fundamentalist's imagination... NIV rhymes with HIV.


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## Montanablue (Jul 17, 2009)

buggy said:


> Montanablue said:
> 
> 
> > Reformed Thomist said:
> ...




Oh. How terribly clever of them.


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## buggy (Jul 17, 2009)

You know, I recall one Fundamentalist who said to me he only started to understand the Bible clearly after picking up a KJV Bible. And he boasted when a Charismatic leader who got angry, because he was unable to make him speak in tongues, the leader pointed at his KJV Bible, saying, "It must be this!"


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## Mark Hettler (Jul 17, 2009)

buggy said:


> You know, I recall one Fundamentalist who said to me he only started to understand the Bible clearly after picking up a KJV Bible. And he boasted when a Charismatic leader who got angry, because he was unable to make him speak in tongues, the leader pointed at his KJV Bible, saying, "It must be this!"



There are probably many more charismatic leaders who use the KJV and would blame a modern translation for a person's inability to speak in tongues.


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## Skyler (Jul 17, 2009)

buggy said:


> You know, I recall one Fundamentalist who said to me he only started to understand the Bible clearly after picking up a KJV Bible. And he boasted when a Charismatic leader who got angry, because he was unable to make him speak in tongues, the leader pointed at his KJV Bible, saying, "It must be this!"



The Fundamentalist should have started to speak King James English.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 17, 2009)

Skyler said:


> buggy said:
> 
> 
> > You know, I recall one Fundamentalist who said to me he only started to understand the Bible clearly after picking up a KJV Bible. And he boasted when a Charismatic leader who got angry, because he was unable to make him speak in tongues, the leader pointed at his KJV Bible, saying, "It must be this!"
> ...


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## John Weathersby (Jul 17, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > buggy said:
> ...



Doith thou findeth fault with thus? Methings thoust attitude stinkith!


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