# Peter Waldo and the Waldensians



## bookslover (Apr 15, 2008)

My son is writing a paper for his college course (he's a history major at our local state college) on Peter Waldo and the Waldensians, but he's having trouble coming up with reliable resources - apparently, Pete didn't write too much.

Any suggestions for college-level resources?


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## Davidius (Apr 15, 2008)

This may prove useful:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Wheres-Waldo-Reissue-Martin-Handford/dp/0763603104]Amazon.com: Where's Waldo?: Reissue (Waldo): Martin Handford: Books[/ame]


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## toddpedlar (Apr 15, 2008)

Davidius said:


> This may prove useful:
> 
> Amazon.com: Where's Waldo?: Reissue (Waldo): Martin Handford: Books



oh, you're sooooo bad, david!

(I was thinking the same thing)


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## toddpedlar (Apr 16, 2008)

I would get Wylie's book for sure - there might be others out there but I don't know of them. Maybe a new book by a Euan Cameron, published by Cambridge Press?

Reactions: Like 1


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## SolaGratia (Apr 16, 2008)

bookslover said:


> My son is writing a paper for his college course (he's a history major at our local state college) on Peter Waldo and the Waldensians, but he's having trouble coming up with reliable resources - apparently, Pete didn't write too much.
> 
> Any suggestions for college-level resources?



Have you try looking him up as Pierre Vaudes-French or Valdez in Spanish.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 16, 2008)

History of the Waldenses by J.A. Wylie (reprinted from the 16th book of his _History of Protestantism_)
http://www.puritanboard.com/f18/waldenses-24447/
Waldensians - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Links and Downloads Manager - General Links - Sonnet XVIII: On the Late Massacre in Piedmont -- John Milton - The PuritanBoard

Reactions: Like 1


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## Herald (Apr 16, 2008)

Leave it to "The Librarian."


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 16, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Davidius said:
> 
> 
> > This may prove useful:
> ...



You naughty boys.


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## Blueridge Believer (Apr 16, 2008)

Extracts from
The History of the Evangelical Churches of the Valleys of Piemont
by Samuel Morland (London, 1658).

[Morland was commissioned by Oliver Cromwell to give aid
to the Waldenses and to research their history.
Original spellings have been preserved.]





After all the authentick proofs that have been alledged to make good the Antiquity of the Evangelical Churches in the Valleys of Piemont, even from the time of the Apostles, if there yet remains any scruple in the mind of the Christian Reader concerning this Truth, their own Language in their Confessions of Faith from time to time, which I have here inserted in the following Form, will easily discover whether they be Jews or Galileans, the true seed of Abraham, or a counterfeit generation. For, if they have the Doctrine of the Prophets and Apostles of Jesus Christ, then they are the true successors and the legitimate Children of Abraham, for as much as they have the Faith of Abraham, Rom. 4. and 9. and 11. as Gregory Nazianzen observes in his Oration, in magnum Athanasium.


An ancient Confession of Faith of the Waldenses, Copied
out of certain Manuscripts, bearing date Anno Dom.
1120. That is to say, near 400 years before the
time of either Calvin or Luther.


Article 1.

We believe and firmly hold all that which is contained in the twelve Articles of the Symbol, which is called the Apostles' Creed, accounting for Heresie whatsoever is disagreeing, and not consonant to the said 12 Articles.


Article 2.

We do believe that there is one God, Father, Son, & Holy Ghost.


Article 3.

We acknowledg for the holy Canonical Scriptures, the Books of the holy Bible. The Books of Moses called Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers, Deuteronomy, Joshua, Judges, Ruth, 1st Samuel, 2nd of Samuel, 1st of Kings, 2nd of Kings, 1st Chronicles, 2nd Chronicles, Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther, Job, Psalms. The Proverbs of Solomon, Ecclesiastes, or the Preacher, The Song of Solomon, The Prophesies of Isaiah, and Jeremiah. The Lamentations of Jeremiah. Ezekiel, Daniel, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Jonas, Micah, Nahum, Habakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi.

Here follow the Books Apocryphal, which are not received of the Hebrews. But we reade them (as saith St. Hierome in his Prologue to the Proverbs) for the instruction of the People, not to confirm the Authority of the Doctrine of the Church: 2nd Esdras, 3d Esdras, Tobit, Judith, Wisdom, Ecclesiasticus, Baruch, with the Epistle of Jeremiah, Esther from the tenth Chapter to the end, The Song of the three Children in the Fornace, The History of Susanna, The History of the Dragon, 1 Maccabes, 2 Maccabes, 3 Maccabes.

Here follow the Books of the New Testament: The Gospels according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, The Acts of the Apostles, The Epistle of Paul to the Romans, 1 Corinthians, 2 Corinthians, Galatians, Ephesians, Philippians, Colossians, 1 Thessalonians, 2 Thessalonians, 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy, Titus, Philemon, The Epistle to the Hebrews, The Epistle of James, The first Epistle of Peter, The second Epistle of Peter, The first Epistle of John, The second Epistle of John, The third Epistle of John, The Epistle of Jude, The Revelation of John.


Article 4.

The Books above-said teach this, That there is one God, Almighty, all wise, and all good, who has made all things by his goodness, For he formed Adam in his own image and likeness, but that by the envy of the Devil, and the disobedience of the said Adam, sin has entred into the World, and that we are Sinners in Adam and by Adam.


Article 5.

That Christ was promised to our Fathers who received the Law, that so knowing by the Law their sin, unrighteousness and insufficiency, they might desire the coming of Christ, to satisfie for their sins, and accomplish the Law by himself.


Article 6.

That Christ was born in the time appointed by God the Father. That is to say, in the time when all iniquity abounded, and not for the cause of good works, for all were Sinners; but that he might shew us grace and mercy, as being faithfull.


Article 7.

That Christ is our life, truth, peace, and righteousness, as also our Pastour, Advocate, Sacrifice, and Priest, who died for the salvation of all those that believe, and is risen for our justification.


Article 8.

In like manner, we firmly hold, that there is no other Mediatour and Advocate with God the Father, save onely Jesus Christ. And as for the Virgin Mary, that she was holy, humble, and full of grace; and in like manner do we believe concerning all the other Saints, that being in Heaven they wait for the Resurrection of their Bodies at the Day of Judgment.


Article 9.

We believe that after this life, there are onely two places, the one for the saved, and the other for the damned, the which two places we call Paradise and Hell, absolutely denying that Purgatory invented by Antichrist and forged contrary to the truth.


Article 10.

We have always accounted as an unspeakable abomination before God, all those Inventions of men, namely, the Feasts and the Vigils of Saints, the Water which they call holy. As likewise to abstain from flesh upon certain Days, and the like; but especially their Masses.


Article 11.

We esteem for an abomination and as Anti-Christian, all those humane Inventions which are a trouble or prejudice to the Liberty of the Spirit.


Article 12

We do believe that the Sacraments are signs of the holy thing, or visible forms of the invisible grace, accounting it good that the faithfull sometimes use the said signs or visible forms, if it may be done. However, we believe and hold, that the above-said faithfull may be saved without receiving the signs aforesaid, in case they have no place nor any means to use them.


Article 13.

We acknowledg no other Sacrament but Baptism and the Lords Supper.


Article 14.

We ought to honour the secular powers, by subjection, ready obedience, and paying of Tributes.


* * * * *



[The following is taken from the Waldensian catechism for the instruction of their youth, and bears about the same date as the above––as Morland says, "several hundreds of years before either Calvin or Luther."]



Minister. What is that which thou believest concerning the Holy Church?

Answer. I say, that the Church is considered two manner of ways, the one Substantially, and the other Ministerially. As it is considered Substantially, by the Holy Catholick Church is meant all the Elect of God, from the beginning of the World to the end, by the grace of God through the merit of Christ, gathered together by the Holy Spirit, and fore-ordained to eternal life; the number and names of whom are known to him alone who has elected them; and in this Church remains none who is reprobate; but the Church, as it is considered according to the truth of the ministry, is the company of the Ministers of Christ, together with the People committed to their Charge, using the Ministry, by Faith, Hope, and Charity.

Covenant Baptist Church


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## NaphtaliPress (Apr 16, 2008)

Perrin, Jean Paul, Robert Baird, and Samuel Miller. 1847. _History of the ancient Christians inhabiting the valleys of the Alps: I. The Waldenses. II. The Albigenses. III. The Vaudois_. Philadelphia: Griffith and Simon.
History of the Ancient Christians ... - Google Book Search

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## TimV (Apr 16, 2008)

Wikipedia and a poem (a nice one!) by Milton as college level reliable historical sources Andrew? ;-) "Even them who kept thy truth so pure of old"?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 16, 2008)

TimV said:


> Wikipedia and a poem (a nice one!) by Milton as college level reliable historical sources Andrew? ;-) "Even them who kept thy truth so pure of old"?



Wikipedia quotes Wylie, among others, and provides leads for further research. Milton is tossed in there as a bonus by a lover of poetry.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JohnOwen007 (Apr 16, 2008)

Euan Cameron is the current Waldensian expert (and an excellent historian of the reformation era).

Try these two books:

Euan Cameron, _The Waldenses: Rejections of Holy Church in Medieval Europe_, (2001) ISBN-10: 0631224971, ISBN-13: 978-0631224976

Euan Cameron, _The reformation of the heretics: The Waldenses of the Alps, 1480-1580_ (Oxford University Press, 1986)


Every blessing.


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## bookslover (Apr 16, 2008)

Thanks, guys. I'll pass this all this along to Kyle.

The "Where's Waldo?" smart alecks will, of course, incur stiff fines...


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## toddpedlar (Apr 16, 2008)

bookslover said:


> Thanks, guys. I'll pass this all this along to Kyle.
> 
> The "Where's Waldo?" smart alecks will, of course, incur stiff fines...



shuddering in my boots, man


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## bookslover (Apr 16, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> bookslover said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, guys. I'll pass this all this along to Kyle.
> ...



As you have four small daughters, sir, your fine is omitted. Can't say I'm not the compassionate sort!


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## Davidius (Apr 16, 2008)

bookslover said:


> Thanks, guys. I'll pass this all this along to Kyle.
> 
> The "Where's Waldo?" smart alecks will, of course, incur stiff fines...





bookslover said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> > bookslover said:
> ...



I'm getting married soon. Can that be grounds for waiving my fine?


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## Herald (Apr 16, 2008)

Why does the title of this thread sound like an act being introduced by Ed Sullivan?

"We have a really big shuuuwh for you tonight. Here, all they way from the hills of sunny Italy, Peter Waldo and the Waldensians!"


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## fredtgreco (Apr 16, 2008)




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## bookslover (Apr 17, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> Why does the title of this thread sound like an act being introduced by Ed Sullivan?
> 
> "We have a really big shuuuwh for you tonight. Here, all they way from the hills of sunny Italy, Peter Waldo and the Waldensians!"



That's because, after his career, Waldo moved to Motown (this is rarely mentioned in the history books) and got heavily involved in early (very early!) R&B. Hey, maybe my son should make this the topic of his paper!


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## bookslover (Apr 17, 2008)

Davidius said:


> I'm getting married soon. Can that be grounds for waiving my fine?



Hmmm. Since you are voluntarily giving up your freedom, you'll need what would have been your fine money to help support your beloved in a style to which she will quickly become accustomed! So, once again, I'm being extraordinarily compassionate!

Am I wonderful, or what?


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## Davidius (Apr 17, 2008)

bookslover said:


> Davidius said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting married soon. Can that be grounds for waiving my fine?
> ...



Indeed!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 17, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> Why does the title of this thread sound like an act being introduced by Ed Sullivan?
> 
> "We have a really big shuuuwh for you tonight. Here, all they way from the hills of sunny Italy, Peter Waldo and the Waldensians!"



 When I read about them, I often see them referred to as a small *"band"* of Waldensians, or Henri Arnaud and his *"band"* of Waldensians....


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## Herald (Apr 17, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Why does the title of this thread sound like an act being introduced by Ed Sullivan?
> ...


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## Herald (Apr 17, 2008)

bookslover said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Why does the title of this thread sound like an act being introduced by Ed Sullivan?
> ...



Richard, when they left Europe they came to the United States. They had a concert in New York in which all the young girls went crazy. It was called...ummm...the Waldo Hysteria.


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## Dieter Schneider (Apr 17, 2008)

bookslover said:


> My son is writing a paper for his college course (he's a history major at our local state college) on Peter Waldo and the Waldensians, but he's having trouble coming up with reliable resources - apparently, Pete didn't write too much.
> 
> Any suggestions for college-level resources?



Try here - perhaps.


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## bookslover (Apr 17, 2008)

My son, Kyle, has found a new volume on the Waldensians:

Audisio, Gabriel, _Preachers by Night: The Waldensian Barbes (15th-16th Centuries)_ translated from the French by Claire Davison; Studies in Medieval and Reformation Traditions CXVIII (Andrew Colin Gow, editor) (Leiden: Brill, 2007), 258 pp.

The Waldensians played with Barbies? So, _that_ was their problem!

(I just thought I'd beat you other guys to the punch [line]...)

Back cover description: _First inspired by Vaudes in around 1170, the Waldensians formed a religious dissent which survived into the sixteenth century. Respecting the Gospel to the letter, their rejection of oaths, falsehood, the death penalty, purgatory, and the intercession of saints marginalized them in the society of the times. Their survival depended on their will to adapt. Organization became necessary to withstand the pressures of time and space as their community extended across Europe (France, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, Bohemia, Poland). Preachers, called "barbes" in the diaspora's Romance wing, embodied the ideal lifestyle and unity of their community. This is the story and history of those preachers - celibate, arduous, pious men whose itinerant mission it was to maintain a clandestine but vehement faith._


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## Mayflower (Apr 18, 2008)

The Israel of the Alps. A Complete History of the Waldenses and their Colonies; Prepared in Great Part from Unpublished Documents - 2 volumes by Alexis Muston

The Baptist Standard Bearer, Inc.

The Baptist Standard Bearer, Inc.


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