# Lying, white lies, or...



## blhowes (Mar 10, 2006)

We're going through the book of Philippians Wednesday evenings at church. We're on chapter 4 where it talks about thinking on things that true, honest, just, etc. The pastor asked a question about speaking the truth that was thought provoking.

He asked (I'm paraphrasing) if telling what is not true is always a sin that should be repented of. As an example, what about the family that's planning a surprise birthday party for their elderly grandmother. On the day of the birthday, they tell the grandmother that they're all gonna go out to Friendly's for dinner, but end up going past Friendly's to the hall up the road, which is filled with a couple hundred family members, friends, and well-wishers. The grandmother is of course surprised and so appreciative of the thoughtfulness shown to her.

Would this be considered a sin that needs to be repented of, and avoided in the first place? 

Is this just an example of situation ethics, or are there times when such practices are OK? 

Do you think such a situation should be considered to be: 
1) Lying, 
2) telling a 'white' lie, or 
3) not really lying

(please answer truthfully  )


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## Puritanhead (Mar 10, 2006)

When I a woman asks if a pair of clothes makes her look fat...

Perhaps it is not wise to be true, and say, "No, your fat makes you look fat."


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## blhowes (Mar 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> When I a woman asks if a pair of clothes makes her look fat...
> 
> Perhaps it is not wise to be true, and say, "No, your fat makes you look fat."



 and


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## Puritanhead (Mar 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by blhowes_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> ...



It's not really lying if you just evade the question, then mutter incoherently and walk off. That's always the best option.


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## py3ak (Mar 10, 2006)

If I really believe that it's OK to lie in certain circumstances, and this was one of them, then no one could be sure if you really grasped my true opinion or not....


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## Robin (Mar 10, 2006)

Wow, Bob...something to think about.

It got me to wondering....what about the lies Rahab told to protect the Israelite spies? (Joshua 2:1-7)


But wait....then we read that Rahab is "justified" for this!

James 2:25 

And in the same way was not also Rahab the prostitute justified by works when she received the messengers and sent them out by another way? 



Robin


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## py3ak (Mar 10, 2006)

The Hebrew midwives lie; David feigns insanity and asks Jonathan to lie for him, which Jonathan cheerfully does.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 10, 2006)

I brought this up in my preaching last Sunday morning. The excerpt from my sermon:

"Be renewed in the attitude or spirit of your minds. 

When your mind is deceived you will be amazed at the kind of behavior you would tolerate in yourself and others. Have you ever lied because after all it was just a little white lie? Who told you that there is such a thing? You were deceived. 

The corrupt thinking of the old person will result in corrupt habits and attitudes. But verse 24 of Eph said, the new person is created to be like God in true righteousness and holiness." verse 25 of Eph. 4 says to "˜put off falsehood and speak truthfully´. So one example is to put off old practices that belong to the old way of life like lying.

Another big clue comes from Col 3:8-9 But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices"

Justifying any kind of lie comes from our old nature and hinders our sanctification. Rahab was used by God and justified in Christ, not by what she did.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 10, 2006)

People by nature are liars, lying is not justified by anecdotal stories from the Bible, lying is condemned as a work of the flesh and it is contrary to the Spirit.

Granted, there is a difference between lying, speaking falsehood and not volunteering the whole truth. Discretion is a virtue.


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## Robin (Mar 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> Rahab was used by God and justified *in* Christ, not by what she did.



 Indeed, this is the point of James.

Her actions demonstrated that she trusted in Christ already.

r.


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