# Reason for Puritan decline?



## kvanlaan

I've heard a number of theories on this, but was wondering if anyone can tell me what caused the end of the Puritans as a body. I have previously heard that in part, their work ethic caused them to prosper, and the affluence corrupted them. I have also heard that it was because they turned inward, focusing on family alone, and not evangelism, that they went into decline. In the end, I don't really know and am wondering if anyone can give a link to a previous thread on this or perhaps another online source.

Thanks!


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## panta dokimazete

Don't think it answers your question fully, but an interesting read.


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## kvanlaan

Thanks for that, JD - an interesting read indeed.

"Growing secularism" on the part of the American Puritans is the partial conclusion of one of the articles from that link and seems fairly sound. I guess I'm looking for more detail, though. The English branch explanation seems full and conclusive, it is the American explanation that is still lacking (In my humble opinion). I've read that as the American colony grew at Massachusetts Bay, more people moved outside the colony proper and were less influenced by the church. Likewise, the Puritan work ethic/charter benefits caused many to prosper, which I am sure helped lead to 'growing secularism'. But the _how_ of it and progressive decline is what I am looking for and not finding...


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## kvanlaan

Well, made some minor search changes and found an article here:

http://www.thirdmill.org/newfiles/jac_arnold/CH.Arnold.CH.35.pdf

It is not that the sources are _not available _online, it's the viewpoint from which they're written that makes them questionable.


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## panta dokimazete

Take a gander at this - yeow...


We posted at the same time, so I did not see the above - I agree with your statement.


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## panta dokimazete

> Why did the Puritan experiment finally collapse?
> 
> The Puritans' charter was revoked in 1689, so the Puritans could no longer compel assent. They had to tolerate Quakers and Anglicans. This created a real crisis of meaning: How do we survive in a pluralistic world?
> 
> Today, we take religious toleration for granted. What would terrify us would be the exact opposite—a theocracy, such as we see in the Middle East.



from here


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## panta dokimazete

Thought - based on some of this - do you think the idea of "Manifest Destiny" originated with the Puritans?


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## RamistThomist

panta dokimazete said:


> Why did the Puritan experiment finally collapse?
> 
> The Puritans' charter was revoked in 1689, so the Puritans could no longer compel assent. They had to tolerate Quakers and Anglicans. This created a real crisis of meaning: How do we survive in a pluralistic world?
> 
> Today, we take religious toleration for granted. What would terrify us would be the exact opposite—a theocracy, such as we see in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from here
Click to expand...


Pluralism is a non-negotiable death for any culture. The only way a culture can survive pluralism is by a totalitarian state. That is why Billary Clinton likes pluralism and multiculturalism. It justifies the strong arm of the State.


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## Pilgrim

Ivanhoe said:


> panta dokimazete said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Puritan experiment finally collapse?
> 
> The Puritans' charter was revoked in 1689, so the Puritans could no longer compel assent. They had to tolerate Quakers and Anglicans. This created a real crisis of meaning: How do we survive in a pluralistic world?
> 
> Today, we take religious toleration for granted. What would terrify us would be the exact opposite—a theocracy, such as we see in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pluralism is a non-negotiable death for any culture. The only way a culture can survive pluralism is by a totalitarian state. That is why Billary Clinton likes pluralism and multiculturalism. It justifies the strong arm of the State.
Click to expand...


The only premil thinker who denounces pluralism rides again!


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## RamistThomist

Pilgrim said:


> Ivanhoe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> panta dokimazete said:
> 
> 
> 
> from here
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pluralism is a non-negotiable death for any culture. The only way a culture can survive pluralism is by a totalitarian state. That is why Billary Clinton likes pluralism and multiculturalism. It justifies the strong arm of the State.
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only premil thinker who denounces pluralism rides again!
Click to expand...


Probably. I guess concerning the topic the only thing I can think of would be related to the Halfway Covenant? Mabye.


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## panta dokimazete

panta dokimazete said:


> Thought - based on some of this - do you think the idea of "Manifest Destiny" originated with the Puritans?



answering my own question:



> Historian Beshoy Shaker has noted that three key themes were usually touched upon by advocates of Manifest Destiny:
> 
> 1. the virtue of the American people and their institutions;
> 2. the mission to spread these institutions, thereby redeeming and remaking the world in the image of the U.S.; and
> 3. the destiny under God to accomplish this work.[8]
> 
> The origin of the first theme, later known as American Exceptionalism, was often traced to America's Puritan heritage, particularly John Winthrop's famous "City upon a Hill" sermon of 1630, in which he called for the establishment of a virtuous community that would be a shining example to the Old World.



wiki


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## JohnOwen007

kvanlaan said:


> I've heard a number of theories on this, but was wondering if anyone can tell me what caused the end of the Puritans as a body.



Are you thinking of the English Puritans or the New England Puritans?

They're two different stories.


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## bookslover

I guess, humanly speaking, the Puritans, as a movement, just ran out of gas. It's the old story of the three generations: the first generation is the gung-ho, all-out, totally committed generation; the second generation pretty much continues with the agenda, but with a cooler attitude, while taking much that the first generation did for granted; by the third generation, it's "what's a Puritan"?

Three generations: about 60-75 years, depending on how you count a generation. Just like it takes a seminary or a denomination about 3 generations to head south.

Example: Greenville Seminary is currently in its very strong first generation. Enjoy it while it lasts...

Plus, while the Puritans were great theologians, they were lousy politicians. After all, they backed putting Chuck 2 on the throne, thinking he was one of them, and look at how that turned out...


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## DMcFadden

Ivanhoe said:


> panta dokimazete said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why did the Puritan experiment finally collapse?
> 
> The Puritans' charter was revoked in 1689, so the Puritans could no longer compel assent. They had to tolerate Quakers and Anglicans. This created a real crisis of meaning: How do we survive in a pluralistic world?
> 
> Today, we take religious toleration for granted. What would terrify us would be the exact opposite—a theocracy, such as we see in the Middle East.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> from here
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pluralism is a non-negotiable death for any culture. The only way a culture can survive pluralism is by a totalitarian state. That is why Billary Clinton likes pluralism and multiculturalism. It justifies the strong arm of the State.
Click to expand...


 I'm not sure that I would reduce it to one factor (i.e., pluralism). However, pluralism, secularization, and privatization are certainly the triple whammy that will do in any society in just the way you say, Jacob. [On the PB, those couple of us premils have to stick together]


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## MW

bookslover said:


> Plus, while the Puritans were great theologians, they were lousy politicians. After all, they backed putting Chuck 2 on the throne, thinking he was one of them, and look at how that turned out...



They suspected the king might turn, but it was really the only option to a political vacuum which was producing what any Puritan could only regard as anarchy.

The reality is, as glorious as the Revolution of 1688 was, it also spelled the end of the Puritan movement within the Church of England. Puritanism would henceforth be confined to the realms of Nonconformity outside the Church. It was in fact the Revolution and increasing leniency to Nonconformists through the 18th century which gave rise to toleration -- defining toleration as indifference to principle for the purpose of political cohesion.


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## Iconoclast

panta dokimazete said:


> Thought - based on some of this - do you think the idea of "Manifest Destiny" originated with the Puritans?



Jd,

In a paperback book called The American Covenant,by Marshall Foster,he wrote the following

The idea of manifest destiny grew up in the 19th century as a secularization of the original Pilgrim covenant and puritan hope.
God's purpose for America can be seen in history through the covenants of the people and Divine intervention in events 

Although this is a small paperback 180pages, it is very thought provoking as is this topic. If most of us get much instruction from the puritans and their writings it is important to learn from them what they did that brought the blessing of God [covenant obedience] and what they did to bring judgment from God[ covenant dis-obedience].
I was just re-reading this book the last two days, and trying to consider some of the key questions he asks ,such asI on page 12 the question is asked in reference to luke19:13- "occupy until I come"

Who and what will occupy and thereby govern and control the quality and conduct of our nation and it's administration as well as our homes,churches,and schools? Who has taken leadership in our society?
The christian, or the unbeliever?

Along with some of the other posts, concerning materialism, a decline in second and third generations, how someone answers this question has a bearing on society, both in the puritans day,and our day.


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## kvanlaan

One thing that I did not expect in one of the sources was an insinuation that Jonathan Edwards initiated American Arminianism by saying that there was no man who called on God who would not be saved (thus, there WAS something man could do to help bring salvation to his soul.) Never seen that take on it before. I am guessing that it was pulled out of context (?)

BTW, JD, the: 



> Take a gander at this - yeow...



Yeow indeed.


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## Pilgrim

From a theological perspective, one could blame the half-way covenant and unitarianism for the decline of Puritanism in the USA.


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## panta dokimazete

Kevin - thanks for a thought provoking thread!


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## Reformed Covenanter

The Puritans own compromises with human autonomy were a factor in their decline. See Gary North's _Puritan Economic Experiments_ for more on this theme.


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