# Rev. 13:8, From the katabolhs of the world



## CharlieJ (Jan 13, 2010)

Two questions on this text. First, what reasons would you have for construing απο καταβολης κοσμου (from the foundation/beginning of the world) with either γεγραπται or εσφαγμενου?

Second, if you construe the phrase as "slain from the foundation/beginning of the world," how do you interpret it? I have thought of it as referring to the eternal covenant of redemption, but Fisher in The Marrow of Modern Divinity thinks it is a reference to the lamb God slew to clothe Adam and Eve. By that reading, John is identifying a type. Hence, "beginning of the world" is a bit clearer.


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## rbcbob (Jan 13, 2010)

Christ was slain in real space-time history (Gal 4:4ff).


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## Peairtach (Jan 13, 2010)

What about from the foundation of the New World i.e. the New Heavens and New Earth, if we date the first day, in principle, of the New Creation as the first Christian Sabbath/Lord's Day i.e. the day on which our Lord rose from the dead? Christ was slain in actuality two days before.

This is just a speculative suggestion which I haven't researched.


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## CharlieJ (Jan 14, 2010)

bump


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## rbcbob (Jan 14, 2010)

As hinted above the clause in question must be applied to the time of "names written" rather than to "slain" because Christ entered the spatio-temporal drama of fallen Man; lived and died in that historical reality. C. Samuel Storms handled well the time aspect of Christ's death in THE GRANDEUR OF GOD.


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## CharlieJ (Jan 14, 2010)

That's interesting, Bob. I've never heard that argument before. I'm not sure that I agree, though, that the phrase as it stands denies the historical nature of the sacrifice. That sounds like a reaction to modernism. I'm quite sure the Westminster Confession didn't mean that:



> WCF 8.6 Although the work of redemption was not actually wrought by Christ till after His incarnation, yet the virtue, efficacy, and benefits thereof, were communicated unto the elect in all ages successively from the beginning of the world, in and by those promises, types, and sacrifices, wherein He was revealed and signified to be the Seed of the woman, which should bruise the serpent's head, and the *Lamb slain from the beginning of the world being yesterday and today the same, and for ever.*(1)
> (1) Gal. 4:4,5; Gen. 3:15; Rev. 13:8; Heb. 13:8.



Now, I'm not saying that the interpretation you put forth is wrong. I'm just saying that the reason you give didn't appear to be a problem for many of our Reformed forebears.


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