# An Arminian tries to attack Calvinism



## dado6 (Aug 2, 2004)

Nothing new here. Romans 8:29-30 says nothing about foreknowledge of personal faith being the basis of God's predestination. Such a concept is a tremendous leap of logic and is nothing more than eisigesis. Nearly every reformed scholar published has commented on this Arminian assertion without misrepresentation of any kind.

The only directly revealed basis for God's predestination we have is "the kind intention of his will, to the praise of the glory of his grace.." (Eph 1:5-6). The idea that it is based on foreseen personal faith is foreign to scripture.

Rob


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## Craig (Aug 2, 2004)

It isn't just soteriology that differentiates us, it's our very understanding of God: Does He have aseity? Is He unconditioned, or conditioned by humanity?

Is this guy really and truly Arminian??? i.e. as Jacob Arminius outlines it?

[quote:837a7263c5]"Whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son: -- Whom he did predestinate, them he also called. And whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified." [/quote:837a7263c5]
This is why philosophers need to take biblical courses and the like...he's assuming foreknowledge is used in Scripture as we may use it: you know, making assessments and predicting what will happen...sort of a here's the cause so I'll know this will be the effect. Well, when the Bible speaks of God [i:837a7263c5]knowing[/i:837a7263c5] anybody it is in relation to His love. That's why He'll tell unbelievers "Depart, I [b:837a7263c5]never knew[/b:837a7263c5] you." He's looking to justify himself philosophically, but he's not doing it biblically. Let the text speak as God has spoken: God says "these that I have loved...I have predestined them..." God's love isn't just some general thing: it's specific, effectual, and will accomplish the goal of salvation.

Perhaps a way to phrase it would be this: God is love. God loved (i.e. foreknew us) and because of that He predestined us...also, God loves us in Christ...and since God is love, He must save only those He loves otherwise He has not fully loved His Only Begotten. There are so many issues you can get into with that. I mean, perhaps he will see a rejection of predestination is really demeaning the Trinity and even the relationship within the Godhead.


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## johnny_redeemed (Aug 4, 2004)

same old stuff.


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## Reformed1 (Nov 5, 2004)

I encounter this same argument all the time. over and over...ad nauseum. I still, in all of my encounters, have never heard an answer to this scripture:

"All that the Father gives me shall come to me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out...no one can come to Me, unless it has been granted him from the Father." (Jn. 6:37,65b)

There is a giving of the Father which precedes that person coming to faith. The Arminian (and Roman Catholics) twist it and make our coming to faith in Christ (albeit the FUTURE coming) as the basis of God's giving. They turn the verse on it's head. No matter how many dodges they try to throw, they still can't answer to the fact that God gives FIRST, and THEN we come in faith and are raised up on the last day.


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