# Different cultural marriage customs



## Pergamum (Oct 14, 2007)

Marriage is a Creation Ordinance. It appears that even pagans, when marrying, have legitimate marriages and are not in a constant state of adultery even if those marriages were not done under the auspices of the Christian Church.

I am in an area where marriage happens when two couples go into the jungle and have sex. At that point they are counted as husband and wife. 

Is this adultery or their wedding night? It was an agreed upon encounter and they are counted as married afterward. Is this then a cultural equivalent of "getting married"?


When dealing with them, should I then counsel them as a married couple and encourage them to live out their marriage in the Lord, or do I encourage a "more appropriate" means of "sealing the deal"- while counting them as merely "shacking up" until such a ceremony is done?


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## Ivan (Oct 14, 2007)

Is there any state recognition to their "wedding night"?


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## Puritan Sailor (Oct 14, 2007)

Pergamum said:


> Marriage is a Creation Ordinance. It appears that even pagans, when marrying, have legitimate marriages and are not in a constant state of adultery even if those marriages were not done under the auspices of the Christian Church.
> 
> I am in an area where marriage happens when two couples go into the jungle and have sex. At that point they are counted as husband and wife.
> 
> ...



What is their societal status after the jungle encounter? Are there other forms of marriage ceremonies there that we would more readily identify or is the jungle ceremony the only one used? Is there a ritual required to end the marriage for divorce cases?


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## Davidius (Oct 14, 2007)

Where would you get instructions as to what a "more appropriate means of sealing the deal" would be? Didn't Isaac take Rachel straight to the tent when she was brought back? Since consummation seems to be the focus in the scriptures and there aren't instructions for wedding ceremonies I would think that these marriages are legitimate.

On a historical note, I would be interested to know whether marriages were held in church buildings and officiated by clergymen before marriage was declared a sacrament by the Roman Catholic church in the Middle Ages.


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## Ivan (Oct 14, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Where would you get instructions as to what a "more appropriate means of sealing the deal" would be? Didn't Isaac take Rachel straight to the tent when she was brought back? Since consummation seems to be the focus in the scriptures and there aren't instructions for wedding ceremonies I would think that these marriages are legitimate.
> 
> On a historical note, I would be interested to know whether marriages were held in church buildings and officiated by clergymen before marriage was declared a sacrament by the Roman Catholic church in the Middle Ages.



Very interesting points.


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## Raj (Oct 14, 2007)

"Marriage is a Creation Ordinance. It appears that even pagans, when marrying, have legitimate marriages and are not in a constant state of adultery even if those marriages were not done under the auspices of the Christian Church."

In Nepal also we have this practice, the girl and boy run from their families without telling their parents (some time they know) go to a temple and take some personal oath themselve and they are done. They stay not in jungle but with a far relative or in a rented room for a few months or year and then return home back. The family and society accepts them. And the govt. also gives apporoval to the couple (they can be registerd as husband and wife in the Village head office).

The Church do not approve this marriege but if there are already, people married like this they are shared gospel only and accepted as normal. But once they become Christian, they are advised to get marriege under the approval of Church. But since the practice is cultral, some time it happend in the church too. And we had hard time to counsel the couple. There were some disciplinary actions too. And finally, some of them repented openly before the congregation and were restored in the fellowship. 

Things are improving...


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## Pergamum (Oct 15, 2007)

The people here are considered married after their jungle foray. Divorce is done by just splitting up. No official ceremonies. Usually divorce does not happen, but men add extra wives. 

There is no official state recognition because there is no "state" in the jungle; no presence of government beyond the village big man.


Another question: While some groups marry quite late (20-25), some girls in some areas are married off as soon as menses begins or they begin to look like girls (as young as 9-11 in some cases). Is there such a thing as a "Christian" age to marry?


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## Davidius (Oct 15, 2007)

Pergamum said:


> Another question: While some groups marry quite late (20-25), some girls in some areas are married off as soon as menses begins or they begin to look like girls (as young as 9-11 in some cases). Is there such a thing as a "Christian" age to marry?



I don't think there is. One of the disadvantages of living in a culture which is constantly pushing back the age of marriage is the increase of time for burning with sexual desire without an outlet.


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## No Longer A Libertine (Oct 15, 2007)

Pergamum said:


> The people here are considered married after their jungle foray. Divorce is done by just splitting up. No official ceremonies. Usually divorce does not happen, but men add extra wives.
> 
> There is no official state recognition because there is no "state" in the jungle; no presence of government beyond the village big man.
> 
> ...


Quite late!? I'm 24 dude, don't rub it in.


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## Puritan Sailor (Oct 15, 2007)

Pergamum said:


> Another question: While some groups marry quite late (20-25), some girls in some areas are married off as soon as menses begins or they begin to look like girls (as young as 9-11 in some cases). Is there such a thing as a "Christian" age to marry?



I think its an issue of maturity both physical and character. Just because an 11 year old may be biologically capable of conceiving a child doesn't mean it is healthy. Women are still growing well into late teens and sometimes early twenties. Very often, early pregnancy is dangerous and results in the death of both mother and child. But there is also the problem of maturity in character as well. An 11 year old, even in cultures where people mature more quickly, is hardly ready to become a mother. Just look at the biblical demands for mothers. Are they capable of that yet? That should be the criteria. But that may be hard to communicate in that culture you are referring too. Do they give any justification for the practice in their culture? Do they acknowledge the dangers? 

I remember watching a special on TV about a particular culture in Africa that married off their women very early, and most ended up physically damaged from the first pregnancy, especially bladder damage. This resulted in incontinence, which in a society which doesn't bathe often results in smelling awful, which leads eventually to the husband sending the woman back home to the parents, who as well can deal with it. The women become outcasts. It's a horrible situation. Is there anything like that going on in that culture where you're at? Perhaps pointing them to the consequences will help them to change the practice.


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## py3ak (Oct 15, 2007)

I think it would be good to accept them as legitimate marriages, but encourage them to realize that they are committed: that their is a contractual obligation, that formally or informally, they have entered into a relationship with one another by oath.

Are girls consenting to marriage at age 11? Do they even get asked? That may be one place to start what will no doubt be a long and difficult process.


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## Pergamum (Oct 15, 2007)

The women are often "given" away or bought by older men in some places. Thus, an older man will tribe some precious commodity to the parents and he, in turn, will get their daughter. Sometimes 40 year olds marry 11 year olds. 


This opens up the can of worms even further: Must we honor a contract that we were involuntarily forced into? If these girls seek divorce, are they sinning? They never contracted, they were often just as well considered "bought" through trading. In short: If forced into marriage, must you be true? If forced to marry can you divorce? Is it really marriage is not freely consented to by both parties?

This has massive ramifications: I have a missionary friend in India. He is Indian and ministers cross-culturally to other Indians. Many churches dropped his support when he divocrded his first wife and he struggled finnacially in his mission work for a long time. Why did he divorce, because he never arranged the marriage anyhow, his parents arranged it for him and he was socially pressured into it when he was younger and it was very grievous to disobey his parents. The wife was an unbeliever and I think even his parents arranged this marriage to force him back into Hinduism.


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## Puritan Sailor (Oct 15, 2007)

There must be conesnt of both parties to be a legitimate marriage. They are suppose to exchange vows right? It's a covenant. If there was never any consent by the woman, then I don't think it could be considered legitimate biblically. 

Arranged marriages aren't wrong in principle so long as both parties consent to it. We find arranged marriages in Scripture and there is no criticism made. In fact, the only marriage where marital affection is mentioned was Isaac and Rebekah, which was arranged. In some ways, your parents know you best and would know who would make a good match, if they did have your interests at heart that is. I don't think an 11 year old can make that decision. She's still a kid. It sounds more like a slave trading deal than a marriage. I can't imagine the psychological ramifications of such a relationship. Have you met any women like that? Do the women have any rights in that culture? Can they sue for divorce? Do children ever reach a point where they are independent of parental authority? Or does this only occur at marriage? It sounds like you have your work cut out for you brother.


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