# Gnosticism



## Scott (Sep 13, 2005)

How does gnosticism (or elements of gnosticism) affect the world today? 

I know that there are actual gnostic groups still around (easy to find on the net). The Nag Hammadi findings have rekindled a little interest in Gnostic teachings. Certain features are similar to eastern religions. Anyway, I would be curious to know what other things people think are related to gnosticism.

Has anyone read The Gnostic Empire Strikes Back? I would be curious about that book's insights. I think it is directed mainly at the New Age.

Thanks


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## rgrove (Sep 13, 2005)

There were some movies recently that were heavily influenced by gnostic thought called "The Matrix". Buddhism also influenced it as some of the concepts overlap. Not overt in a way that you'd know it if you were just watching it and didn't understand various influences on it's ideas. Do some searches and you'll find tons of hits. I haven't read that book, but New Agers have long had a lot of gnostic influence so I'm not surprised to hear it. There's nothing new under the sun...


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## crhoades (Sep 13, 2005)

Peter Jones is a great resource on these matters.

Michael Horton's book In the Face of God is also excellent. For a practical exhortation to us reformed folk...too often we focus on the not yet portion and not enough of the now in the now and not yet. We love knowledge - but do we love the practical acts of religion as well?


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## Me Died Blue (Sep 13, 2005)

Horton's book accurately demonstrates, among so many other things, how so much of contemporary broad evangelical thought has been influenced by the gnostic mindset and tendencies, such as mysticism, hyper-spiritualism, anti-realism and climbing our own way up to God. While few evangelicals would describe their beliefs with those words, the permeating influence is amazing. For instance, the low view of the Church, preaching and the sacraments that runs rampant today correlates with that mystic, anti-realist mindset, just as the notion of climbing up to God goes hand-in-hand with Arminian thought.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> Peter Jones is a great resource on these matters.
> 
> Michael Horton's book In the Face of God is also excellent. For a practical exhortation to us reformed folk...too often we focus on the not yet portion and not enough of the now in the now and not yet. We love knowledge - but do we love the practical acts of religion as well?




we love _ideas_ but hate _institutions_. A good gnostic test is to take every promise of victory in scripture and relegate it to the "spiritual" realm. Another important deviation is the gnostic hatred of history (This is where Van Til annihilated Barth).

Examples:
We changed the Lord's Supper from a meal with real bread and real wine, designed to induce a change in the body, into a stale cracker and even worse grape juice. No longer is the supper an act perfomed in the sight of God with meaning in history, but a nice contemplative, devotional aid for ME.

While we must be careful not to dichotomize biblical theology against systematic theology, and some have relegated BT over ST, we must also avoid the downplaying of God's acts in history knowing we got our tidy frameworks to back it up. In other words, it doesn't matter if God really created in 6 days, what matter is...

A while back I started a poll on the biggest danger of the faith--some mentioned this or that. I now firmly believe that the biggest danger today is gnosticism, or its wh0re cousin--Neo-Platonism. Both maintain a hatred of the created order and a surrender of it to Satan, hoping that Jesus will rapture us in good time.

Also, find my good thread:

You might be Gnostic if you think that full time Christian ministry is superior to Artists who paint landscapes.

You might be Gnostic if you think that the reason you make money is so that you can give most of it to really important things like Missionaries and the Church.

You might be Gnostic if you think that the most holy things you do during the day is pray, read your bible and share the 4 spiritual laws with somebody.

You might be Gnostic if you think the pastor shouldn't Preach on anything that isn't "Spiritual."

You might be Gnostic if you think the New Testament is a more "Spiritual" section of the Scripture then the Old Testament.

You might be Gnostic if you think that the Church in the NT is more "Spiritual" than the Church in the OT.

You might be Gnostic if you think that theonomists are heretics.

You might be Gnostic if you think that there is no such thing as Biblical culture.

You might be Gnostic if you think that Water, Wine, and Bread are only effective as you think the right thoughts about them.

You might be Gnostic if you watch closely for the arrival of an Israelite Red Heifer.

You might be Gnostic if you have read more than one of the Left Behind series.

You might be Gnostic if you think spiritual weapons mean incorporeal weapons.

You might be Gnostic if you think communion isn't one of God's means of Grace whereby He nurtures His people with Grace. 

You might be Gnostic if you think that the essence of the Christian faith is only complete with the proper propositions.

You might be Gnostic if you think that inside of you are two men, named Mr. Spiritual and Mr. Carnal that are fighting for control. 

You might be Gnostic if you don't find this amusing.

[Edited on 9--13-05 by Draught Horse]


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## wsw201 (Sep 13, 2005)

> A good gnostic test is to take every promise of victory in scripture and relegate it to the "spiritual" realm.






> You might be Gnostic if you don't find this amusing.



 I find this one hilarious!!!


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## RamistThomist (Sep 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by wsw201_
> 
> 
> > A good gnostic test is to take every promise of victory in scripture and relegate it to the "spiritual" realm.
> ...



Sadly, some other genius and not myself wrote this.


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## Romans922 (Sep 13, 2005)

Jacob you missed a word in your post above...

It should read:

"You might be Gnostic if you don't think that theonomists are heretics."

[Edited on 9-13-2005 by Romans922]


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## RamistThomist (Sep 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Romans922_
> Jacob you missed a word in your post above...
> 
> It should read:
> ...



Moderators, 
Ban him, please


PS: I didn't miss a word.


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## Romans922 (Sep 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Romans922_
> ...



 Ok, they aren't all heretics, some are though. I know for sure you aren't.


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## Robin (Sep 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Romans922_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



Jacob:   Andrew:  

Robin


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## Robin (Sep 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> How does gnosticism (or elements of gnosticism) affect the world today?
> 
> I know that there are actual gnostic groups still around (easy to find on the net). The Nag Hammadi findings have rekindled a little interest in Gnostic teachings. Certain features are similar to eastern religions. Anyway, I would be curious to know what other things people think are related to gnosticism.
> ...



A better question: how does G affect the Church?

P. Jones is a great guy!! On top of his game...

Meanwhile, the bit about asking Jesus "into your heart and make Him your _personalordandsavior_....is WAY-Gnostic!

R.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Romans922_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



If you offer me cheap beer (it was free, granted) and think nothing of it while trying to talk theology with me outside, you might be a gnostic.

If you, being backed up by other young theologues, proceed to bash Van Til, The Wedge, et al, and know that I am outnumbered and am more hesitant to respond, you might be a gnostic.

If you insist that my favorite theologians ought not to be my favorite theologians, you might be a gnostic.

If you are from Illinois and went to Trinity, you might be a gnostic!

If you are confessionally a presbyterian but sound more like a Baptist, you might be a gnostic.



[Edited on 9--14-05 by Draught Horse]

[Edited on 9--14-05 by Draught Horse]


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## turmeric (Sep 14, 2005)

If you don't agree with me on all points you might be a gnostic. Or some other type of critter, I don't gnow!


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## Larry Hughes (Sep 14, 2005)

> Michael Horton's book In the Face of God is also excellent. For a practical exhortation to us reformed folk...too often we focus on the not yet portion and not enough of the now in the now and not yet. We love knowledge - but do we love the practical acts of religion as well?



Double ditto. Gnostics as in New Age are the more gross ones, it is the "christian" strains of gnosticism that are most dangerous and insideous. Gnostic thought and pietism or "victorious living" scenarious are linked heavily as well. Michael Horton brings this out the best I've read today.

Ldh


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## RamistThomist (Sep 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by crhoades_
> ...



If quotes like the following get you really nervous, you might be a gnostic:

Zechariah 9:15, _"The Lord of hosts will protect them,
and they shall devour, and tread down the sling stones,
and they shall drink and roar as if drunk with wine, 
and be full like a bowl,
drenched like the corners of the altar._


"But the passage pictures Israel drunk with another kind of wine: filled with the wine of Yahweh's Spirit, Israel would be bold, wild, untamed, boisterous in battle. This suggests one dimension of the symbolism of wine in the Lord's Supper: it loosens our inhibitions so that we wil fight the Lord's battles in a kind of drunken frenzy. If this sounds impious, how much more Psalm 78:65, where the Divine Warrior himself is described as a mighty man overcome with wine? Yahweh fights like Samson, but far more ferociously than Samson: He fights like a drunken Samson!"


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## RamistThomist (Sep 29, 2005)

If you are uncomfortable with Jael's action in Judges 4:21, you might be a gnostic.

If you agree with commentators who say that Jael did wrong, you might be a gnostic.

If you continue in this belief despite the fact that God's inspired word (Judges 5:24-27) says that this action was right, you might be a gnostic.


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## Puritan Sailor (Sep 29, 2005)

Perhaps the "gnostic" label would be better understood and applied if the actual teachings of the gnostics were considered, then compared to philosphies today, rather than just taking one aspect of gnocticism and running away with it.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> Perhaps the "gnostic" label would be better understood and applied if the actual teachings of the gnostics were considered, then compared to philosphies today, rather than just taking one aspect of gnocticism and running away with it.



Probalby so, I am not very balanced.


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## Scott (Sep 29, 2005)

Jacob: A suggestion - go back to the avatar with the gun.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Jacob: A suggestion - go back to the avatar with the gun.



Tempting, but I am going for the more sane look right now. I need to lay low for the next few weeks, but after things quiet down I will go back to the outlaw look.


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## Pilgrim (Sep 29, 2005)

The single biggest gnostic influence today is probably the Da Vinci Code. The movie is coming out in the spring and it will likely be a blockbuster as it stars Tom Hanks and is directed by Ron Howard. Multitudes of the ignorant and blinded will believe Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married, etc. It will do for theology what Oliver Stone's movies do for history. 

The stuff Jacob posted may be good for a few laughs, but Gnosticism goes waaay beyond Arminianism and Pietism, although they may exhibit some elements of it at times.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> The single biggest gnostic influence today is probably the Da Vinci Code. The movie is coming out in the spring and it will likely be a blockbuster as it stars Tom Hanks and is directed by Ron Howard. Multitudes of the ignorant and blinded will believe Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married, etc. It will do for theology what Oliver Stone's movies do for history.
> 
> The stuff Jacob posted may be good for a few laughs, but Gnosticism goes waaay beyond Arminianism and Pietism, although they may exhibit some elements of it at times.



Of course it was funny!, and true too. Btw, Lord willing I should be at church this sunday morning.


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## Pilgrim (Sep 29, 2005)

I think the power came back on today at Pineville Pres. One thing I'm pretty certain of regarding gnosticism: You WON'T find any there.


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## turmeric (Sep 30, 2005)

Is this gnostic?

If you don't have the proper grasp of Reformed theology you are either unsaved or not as good a Christian as we are.

Hmmm!


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Sep 30, 2005)

Southern Baptists have a lot of Gnostic tendencies in my experience. Same with Mormons, etc.


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## Pilgrim (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Southern Baptists have a lot of Gnostic tendencies in my experience. Same with Mormons, etc.



If what you mean by Gnostic here is subjectivism, I would agree. SBC with "soul competency" and the Mormons with the "burning in the bosom"


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



Right, the singled-out view of Gnosticism which we seem to be harping on in this thread. The idea that everything earthly is bad and everything spiritual is good, etc.


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## VictorBravo (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Scott_
> ...



Jacob, I don't really know you and I probably should keep my mouth shut, but I really think you looked more sane in the gun photo.

Vic


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