# ELCA votes 559-451 to allow gay pastors



## Berean (Aug 21, 2009)

> Gay ministers will be allowed to lead parishes, representatives of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) voted today in Minneapolis.



ELCA votes 559-451 to allow gay pastors | StarTribune.com



Lutherans to allow sexually active gays as clergy - Yahoo! News


----------



## toddpedlar (Aug 21, 2009)

Frankly I'm surprised it was that close...


----------



## Rich Koster (Aug 21, 2009)

Don't ask, don't tell, who voted them in......


----------



## jawyman (Aug 21, 2009)

It is such a shame to hear this. It is not surprising, but a shame none the less. I pray for all those member who are so trapped by Satan, Modernism, and Liberalism. I ask for prayers for those saints that may be in this organization. I will call ELCA and organization, because biblical it has ceased to be a church. May the light of the Truth guide them back to the Lord and may they see Him in His Glory exercising His Sovereignty. Again, I am not surprised, but heart-broken none the less.


----------



## Calvinist Cowboy (Aug 21, 2009)

Sad day.


----------



## Hungus (Aug 21, 2009)

I suspect there will be a new denomination forming soon.


----------



## awretchsavedbygrace (Aug 21, 2009)

The time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to have their ears tickled, _*they will accumulate for themselves teachers in accordance to their own desires; and *_will turn away their ears from the truth, and will turn aside to myths” (2 Timothy 4:3-4).


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Aug 21, 2009)

Hungus said:


> I suspect there will be a new denomination forming soon.



Or defection to the LCMS.


----------



## nicnap (Aug 21, 2009)




----------



## Reformed Thomist (Aug 21, 2009)

Hungus said:


> I suspect there will be a new denomination forming soon.



Yep. Here we go again.


----------



## Sven (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm with Carl Trueman and others on this one. The homosexual issue isn't the big one. There are, no doubt, many who might leave the ELCA over this issue, but why weren't these people willing to leave when the ELCA began to waver in the more important doctrines? Why is it never a big issue when Churches begin to teach that the Word of God isn't innerrant or totally inspired? Why are people willing to tolerate theological heresies, but will hit the road when the gay issue comes around? I'm not at all surprised by what transpired this week in the ELCA. They gave up the historic Christian faith a while ago; no wonder they're ordaining homosexuals.

-----Added 8/21/2009 at 09:48:01 EST-----



Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Hungus said:
> 
> 
> > I suspect there will be a new denomination forming soon.
> ...



Those in the ELCA will never defect to the LCMS. The ELCA came out of the LCMS back in the 70's. 

This wikipedia article (take it with a grain of salt, or more it is wikipedia after all) has some of the details:

Seminex - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## Reformed Thomist (Aug 21, 2009)

Sven said:


> Why is it never a big issue when Churches begin to teach that the Word of God isn't innerrant or totally inspired? Why are people willing to tolerate theological heresies, but will hit the road when the gay issue comes around?



Inerrancy is, like, _so_ 80 years ago...

But yeah, it is kind of strange. "To reject the deity of Jesus is one thing, but letting the gays be pastors, now that's where I draw the line!"


----------



## Sven (Aug 21, 2009)

Reformed Thomist said:


> Sven said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it never a big issue when Churches begin to teach that the Word of God isn't innerrant or totally inspired? Why are people willing to tolerate theological heresies, but will hit the road when the gay issue comes around?
> ...



Innerrancy is like _so_ today. I wish it wasn't so, but unfortunately the issue hasn't been settled despite the scholarship that has been done. Think it ain't so? Then why all the books lately that have come out on the market regarding this issue?


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Aug 21, 2009)

Sven said:


> I'm with Carl Trueman and others on this one. The homosexual issue isn't the big one. There are, no doubt, many who might leave the ELCA over this issue, but why weren't these people willing to leave when the ELCA began to waver in the more important doctrines? Why is it never a big issue when Churches begin to teach that the Word of God isn't innerrant or totally inspired? Why are people willing to tolerate theological heresies, but will hit the road when the gay issue comes around? I'm not at all surprised by what transpired this week in the ELCA. They gave up the historic Christian faith a while ago; no wonder they're ordaining homosexuals.





Why do some now leave? Frankly because for some it is just plain old homophobia.


----------



## Sven (Aug 21, 2009)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Sven said:
> 
> 
> > I'm with Carl Trueman and others on this one. The homosexual issue isn't the big one. There are, no doubt, many who might leave the ELCA over this issue, but why weren't these people willing to leave when the ELCA began to waver in the more important doctrines? Why is it never a big issue when Churches begin to teach that the Word of God isn't innerrant or totally inspired? Why are people willing to tolerate theological heresies, but will hit the road when the gay issue comes around? I'm not at all surprised by what transpired this week in the ELCA. They gave up the historic Christian faith a while ago; no wonder they're ordaining homosexuals.
> ...



You may be on to something. Let me get my canopener out.


----------



## Marrow Man (Aug 21, 2009)

Yep, I'm with you guys. This is very bad, but it's only the latest symptom of a terminal disease.


----------



## PilgrimPastor (Aug 21, 2009)

Perhaps a conservative resurgence is in their future; likely the distant future.

-----Added 8/21/2009 at 11:01:56 EST-----



Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Sven said:
> 
> 
> > I'm with Carl Trueman and others on this one. The homosexual issue isn't the big one. There are, no doubt, many who might leave the ELCA over this issue, but why weren't these people willing to leave when the ELCA began to waver in the more important doctrines? Why is it never a big issue when Churches begin to teach that the Word of God isn't innerrant or totally inspired? Why are people willing to tolerate theological heresies, but will hit the road when the gay issue comes around? I'm not at all surprised by what transpired this week in the ELCA. They gave up the historic Christian faith a while ago; no wonder they're ordaining homosexuals.
> ...



No doubt you are on to something.


----------



## Mark Hettler (Aug 21, 2009)

Sven said:


> Those in the ELCA will never defect to the LCMS. The ELCA came out of the LCMS back in the 70's.



Not true. The group that came out of the LCMS joined with two other, larger bodies to form the ELCA. The largest of these was the LCA (Lutheran Church in America), the denomination I grew up in back in the 50's and 60's. It never had ties to the LCMS as far as I know. (But I agree that it's unlikely that anyone from the ELCA will defect to the LCMS.)


----------



## Blue Dog (Aug 22, 2009)

Tis truly another sad, sad day for the Remnant. As Lot bore with the wicked, so do the saints in that organization.


----------



## Baptist-1689er (Aug 22, 2009)




----------



## DMcFadden (Aug 22, 2009)

No, homosexuality is not THE issue. However, it affords a presenting cause or focus for attention. For many, theological drift is like the frog in the kettle, too gradual to be noticed and acted upon soon enough. When there is something like this, it shocks people into realizing how far they have come.

Ironically, back in the 70s when my Sys Theo prof was publishing books promoting "women in ministry" with a hermeneutic that "Paul was wrong but that's OK," I got into my share of arguments with folks by saying that such an approach to the Bible would eventually lead to a justification of homosexuality. 

This one has hit all of the seven mainline denoms quicker than I could have imagined back then!


----------



## ExGentibus (Aug 22, 2009)

Hardly surprising, but sad news nonetheless.


----------



## Confessor (Aug 22, 2009)

DMcFadden said:


> Ironically, back in the 70s when my Sys Theo prof was publishing books promoting "women in ministry" with a hermeneutic that "Paul was wrong but that's OK," I got into my share of arguments with folks by saying that such an approach to the Bible would eventually lead to a justification of homosexuality.



Jewett?


----------



## Rich Koster (Aug 22, 2009)

When you explain away or ignore a part of God's word to please people, it opens the floodgate to keep going on until "anything goes". The hard call is to tell when the line has been crossed that puts a group into the synagogue of Satan category. This symptom makes it obvious.


----------



## TimV (Aug 22, 2009)

So tell me again, how important is it for people in denominations like the PCA to take their church constitution seriously? Even on the minor issues that enlightened people sneer at as being rigid and non spiritual?


----------



## jwithnell (Aug 22, 2009)

I've had close association with the ELCA back to when it was the LCA -- sadly, folks come out of seminary thoroughly convinced that man has evolved in his thinking -- we are at a higher plane today and can therefore think critically of anything that disagrees with modern sensibilities. God is love, period, and to say that he would ever .... fill in the blank, block women from being a pastor, make people uncomfortable about divorce ... 

I'm not sure many thought through the logic of such a position, and that's why the vote was so close. The higher order of thinking was fine as long as it didn't interfere with my opinions, but hey, isn't this gay thing going too far?


----------



## Michael Doyle (Aug 22, 2009)

This is very sad indeed. When I first came to Christ in April of 2000, we attended a little ELCA church down the street from us. One morning, they had made some proclamation of homosexuals in the pulpit, I dont quite remember the context but nonetheless, that morning I told my wife, we will not be back. 

I didnt exactly know much, but I knew that was wrong, so we told the woman pastor we were leaving.


----------

