# What should be done about "Westboro Baptist Church"?



## R Harris (Jun 13, 2008)

The group in Kansas, the Westboro Baptist Church, is at it again.

They are planning to protest at a funeral of a GI killed in Iraq last week in Stillwater.

Now get this. They are also planning to protest at one or both of the funerals of the two little girls that were shot and murdered in Weleetka, Ok this past weekend. They sent a fax into KFOR-TV stating that "God caused the girls to be murdered because of the sins of Oklahoma."

Here is a case where the old Westminster Confession Chapter 23:3 would apply, where the civil magistrate would have the power to suppress an heretical group, which this misguided gang obviously is.

But, since the magistrate obviously does not abide by the WCF, how should we respond? They are damaging the cause and kingdom of Christ, and someone in the broader Church should step up to do something about them.


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 13, 2008)

I don't think that they should be silenced by the State. Once the State gets in the business of telling religious groups what they can and can't say... look out.... it is then only a matter of time until they find something YOU say that is noxious to them. 

However, I do think that true churches shouldn't be afraid to make public declarations against them. 

Beyond that, simply ignoring those idiots is the best way to deal with them.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 13, 2008)

My 

If the media would ignore all 10 of these people, they would easily go away. This is indeed a case of a group being a legend in their own mind... and the sad thing is that the media believes it. 

I also agree that the magistrate could put an end to the problem real quick.


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## Stephen L Smith (Jun 14, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> However, I do think that true churches shouldn't be afraid to make public declarations against them.



I have considered putting a message on their blog calling them to repentance. Also pointing out that they like to quote Reformed pastors (eg, the Puritans, CH Spurgeon) but that these Reformed pastors never proclaimed a message of hate like the WBC does. 

I would challenge them to give evidence that they can trace their message of hate back to the Reformers. Further, using their signs as a method of preaching is unbiblical as the signs obscure the fullness of the gospel. Further, preaching in a post modern context means dealing with apologetics as well as the gospel. 

I would also point out that Phelps does not meet the qualifications of eldership and the church does not have a plurity of eldership!
WBC do no service to Christianity.

However, i have restrained myself from posting a message of repentance on their blog as they "glory" in the "persecution" they receive.


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## Pergamum (Jun 14, 2008)

When is a butt-whupping Biblical?


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## Jon Peters (Jun 14, 2008)

I know that most good Americans reject what Phelps and his gang say; however, many of these same people have a latent hatred of homosexuals and this, I believe, blunts the churches criticism of Phelps. When we (as conservative Reformed Christians) can demonstrate our love for ALL types of sinners, I think our criticism would ring truer in the secular media. I know that as long as we continue to call sin sin the media will not embrace out message, but we have to root out the bigotry in our churches.


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## Ivan (Jun 14, 2008)

Jon Peters said:


> I know that most good Americans reject what Phelps and his gang say; however, many of these same people have a latent hatred of homosexuals and this, I believe, blunts the churches criticism of Phelps. When we (as conservative Reformed Christians) can demonstrate our love for ALL types of sinners, I think our criticism would ring truer in the secular media. I know that as long as we continue to call sin sin the media will not embrace out message, but we have to root out the bigotry in our churches.


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## Reformingstudent (Jun 14, 2008)

Tear it down and put up a Denny's


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## timmopussycat (Jun 14, 2008)

Stephen L Smith said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > However, I do think that true churches shouldn't be afraid to make public declarations against them.
> ...



One should perhaps communicate with any Reformed Baptist Organization and ask them to consider having them release a public letter critiquing WBC on these points. Anybody know a suitable group?


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## Ivan (Jun 14, 2008)

Article from the Baptist Press:

Southern Baptist Convention


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## BJClark (Jun 14, 2008)

Maybe contact the news organization yourself and give your own statement..


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## Semper Fidelis (Jun 14, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> I don't think that they should be silenced by the State. Once the State gets in the business of telling religious groups what they can and can't say... look out.... it is then only a matter of time until they find something YOU say that is noxious to them.



I agree but I also think that the State shouldn't be required to protect them when they're acting like fools either. Freedom of speech doesn't imply that a person is entitled to police protection while doing so.


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 14, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> Freedom of speech doesn't imply that a person is entitled to police protection while doing so.



Oh, I wholeheartedly agree! I don't think that the police should be protecting ANY group who is "exercising" their 1st Ammendment right. I think that all the 1st Ammendment requires of the State is that the State not oppress or silence folks.


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## Pilgrim (Jun 14, 2008)

timmopussycat said:


> Stephen L Smith said:
> 
> 
> > SolaScriptura said:
> ...



They won't listen to that. It would be like a Reformed or Presbyterian denomination issuing a statement that critiqued kinists. I think that the vast majority know that they don't speak for Baptists, Calvinists, etc.


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## Pilgrim (Jun 14, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > Freedom of speech doesn't imply that a person is entitled to police protection while doing so.
> ...



I don't know where to draw the line here but I do seriously doubt that their antics would have been tolerated 100 years ago.


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## turmeric (Jun 14, 2008)

I just wish I'd gotten video footage of them picketing our church. I would have run it on TV with our schedule of services running across the bottom of the screen. What better advertising could we have had?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 14, 2008)

If they were in an association the association should have rebuked. But that is the problem with such an independent spirit. They have no one to be responsible to. 

Lord Christ bring judgment upon them quickly for their sin. May they not put a blemish upon your name.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 14, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Lord Christ bring judgment upon them quickly for their sin. May they not put a blemish upon your name.



A fine use of an imprecatory prayer.


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## Reformingstudent (Jun 14, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> If they were in an association the association should have rebuked. But that is the problem with such an independent spirit. They have no one to be responsible to.
> 
> Lord Christ bring judgment upon them quickly for their sin. May they not put a blemish upon your name.



 And


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## Sonoftheday (Jun 14, 2008)

Ughhh.. This makes me sick. Being from Oklahoma I heard about those 2 girls in Weleetka on the local news and it broke my heart. Now to hear this makes me mad.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jun 14, 2008)

Reformingstudent said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> > If they were in an association the association should have rebuked. But that is the problem with such an independent spirit. They have no one to be responsible to.
> ...



And


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## Kevin (Jun 14, 2008)

Ignore them. Fred Phelps is an evil man in my opinion, pray that God will limit his influence.


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## Pergamum (Jun 15, 2008)

Question:

If your son was killed in Iraq and these fools picketed the funeral. If you beat the tar out of them for attacking your family's name, would this be a sin or a sort of self-defense?

(another scenario like it might be if you passed a construction site and someone kept yelling obscene things to your wife. Can you beat them up out of self-defense or do you have to bear it in silence? The same principle would apply here.)

Scenario two: If you formed a counter-group with the purpose of harassing the Phelps family day and night until they desisted or went crazy, would this be appropriate or sinful and vengeful? Tailgate them, spy on them, harass them as they go to the store, restaurants, etc, until they run for refuge.


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## turmeric (Jun 15, 2008)

Pergy, you can't _make_ people crazy if they already _are_ crazy. I don't think Scenario 2 would work. I think law enforcement is being wimpy. They have a right to stop these people protesting funerals, funerals are private events.


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## Stephen L Smith (Jun 15, 2008)

WBC hate being called a cult. However if one demonstrates their message of hate, the picketing they do and their cult leader (disqualified from eldership) has no support from a Reformed church heritage. Perhaps they should be challenged to defend their position. Given that they cannot, perhaps they should be challenged, biblically, to repentance - if not, let them know they will publically be called a cult.

Thoughts on this strategy?


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## Pergamum (Jun 15, 2008)

I still like the butt-whupping strategy better.....


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## SueS (Jun 16, 2008)

Phelps and his crew attempted to disrupt a military funeral in our area last winter. Many of the community turned out to support the family of the dead soldier, a very young man who left a still younger wife and new baby. The route to the cemetary was lined with people for several miles and a contingent of bikers who go around the country for this purpose formed an honor guard in the cemetary itself. The local police department told the Phelps people that they had strict guidelines as to where they could position themselves or face arrest. They ended up slinking away like the cowards they are. There was no disruption of the funeral. I was so proud of the way this was handled!


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