# Freemasonry



## JM (Mar 20, 2019)

How have Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in the past dealt with the issue of Freemasonry? 

Yours in the Lord, 

jm


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## Pergamum (Mar 20, 2019)

Here's some info:

https://www.chick.com/battle-cry/article?id=The-Masonic-Lodge-and-Presbyterianism

This above link is from Jack Chick, but is reliable:

"The 1984 General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church of Queensland appointed a committee to make a study of the practices and teachings of Freemasonry and its compatibility with Presbyterian standards. Their findings were printed in a booklet entitled _The Lodge and Presbyterianism_ published by the Presbyterian church of Qld., 147 Ann Street, Brisbane, Qld. 4000.

Their conclusions were:


Freemasonry is a religion.
Its meetings include acts of worship.
It acknowledges all major religions as being acceptable.
It teaches salvation by works which is contrary to the Christian gospel.
It forbids religious discussions in the lodge thus denying a Christian the right to witness for Christ.
Its prayers are unacceptable to New Testament Christianity in that Christ cannot be addressed in them.
It transgresses the first three commandments.
It requires its candidates for initiation to swear solemn oaths without prior knowledge of the nature and extent of all that the oaths involve.


The final conclusion was that Freemasonry is at variance with the Christian gospel."

But then there is this: https://www.wilmingtonfavs.com/worl...ominent-roles-in-the-presbyterian-church.html

Among Southern Baptists, there have been lots of Freemasons in the church. 

BUT, the North American Mission Board did put out this summary: https://www.namb.net/apologetics-blog/freemasonry-overview/


I was a freemason, but resigned after I was saved. And they didn't even invite me into the Illuminati or nothing.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Tom Hart (Mar 20, 2019)

The OPC has a helpful report available. From 1942.

https://opc.org/GA/masonry.html

I can't comment on historic relations between Presbyterians and Masons, however.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## JM (Mar 20, 2019)

The church I belong to and every single black church in my area was either founded by Freemasons or historically had many members also members of a Lodge. 

If we lived 100 years ago would Freemasonry be an issue? 

I research local black congregations and find that almost every Minister was a Freemason. 

Yours in the Lord, 

jm


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## RamistThomist (Mar 20, 2019)

The OPC report is the best short thing on it. Chick is actually pretty good on this subject. Ron Rhodes "Fast Facts on Freemasonry" is pretty good.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Post Tenebras (Mar 20, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Here's some info:
> 
> https://www.chick.com/battle-cry/article?id=The-Masonic-Lodge-and-Presbyterianism
> 
> ...



I am a former 32nd Degree Scottish Rite Freemason and former Master of a Blue Lodge and I confirm these conclusions are accurate.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 4


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## Contra_Mundum (Mar 20, 2019)

It might be helpful to distinguish what _Freemasonry_ is, in an objective sense; and how it might be used by various people and groups. Also, one should consider not only if _Freemasonry_ is a religion, but further consider what sort of religion.

In the first consideration, one might ask: what was the range of opportunities existing a hundred years ago for public association of blacks in groups having common interests, besides the church/religious group? Maybe the lodge was one of the only ways. And back then, maybe more people understood that it was a bad idea to hijack the church for ancillary goals.

In the second consideration, I would say Freemasonry has many characteristics of Gnostic religion. In terms of "degrees," the lower down one is initiated, the more broad and public-faced the purposes and aims are known. As one is initiated further into the secret-society aspects of Freemasonry, the more focused become the aims.

Organizations (of all kinds) are steered by a control group of inner-circle people who should be on the same page on certain basics; in order that some mission for the org. can be accomplished. Open organizations do not have hidden agendas. Secret-society orgs., by their very nature, are designed so that lower level purposes and aims can be one public "face" of a group with ulterior motives.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## RamistThomist (Mar 20, 2019)

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/fast-facts-on-the-masonic-lodge-ankerberg-weldon.97010/


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## py3ak (Mar 20, 2019)

The CRC was against it:
https://www.crcna.org/welcome/beliefs/position-statements/lodge-and-church-membership


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## Edward (Mar 20, 2019)

PCA: http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-300.pdf


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## Edward (Mar 20, 2019)

RPC, ES
http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-300.pdf
http://www.pcahistory.org/findingaids/rpces/docsynod/261.html

Bible Presbyterian Church
http://www.pcahistory.org/findingaids/rpces/docsynod/262.html



JM said:


> If we lived 100 years ago would Freemasonry be an issue?



The terse but clear Bible Presbyterian report will take you back to 1955 - that gets you almost 2/3 of the way to your '100 years ago'. Looks like the OPC has that beat by 13 years to take you back over 3/4 of the way.


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## Pergamum (Mar 20, 2019)

Someone asked how freemasonry was viewed 100 years ago.

Well, 200 years ago the Anti-Masonic Party was the first 3rd party in US political history.

The Freemasons at that time might have taken the blood oaths that they recite (such as, "May my throat be slit ear to ear..." or "May my body be severed in twain, those twain burned to ashes and those ashes scattered to the 4 winds of heaven should I knowing or willingly violate this, my solemn obligation of a ....mason." I forget them all now. But it was alleged that the Masons killed a guy named Morgan for criticizing them, and so a political party emerged.

And many of our Presidents were Freemasons. So it helped to get you places. It once scored me 20 pounds of hamburger for free from a black Freemason cook for a college cookout (blacks were joined to the Prince Hall Fraternity, I think it was called, which was founded when Revolutionary era free blacks were turned down by white lodges).

But alas, despite my former Freemasonry, my political career has not advanced very far. I'll take free meat, though!

Reactions: Like 2


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## py3ak (Mar 20, 2019)

Edward said:


> 1955 - that gets you almost 2/3 of the way to your '100 years ago



The CRC appears to have condemned it in 1857.

From: https://www.crcna.org/sites/default/files/Index%201857-2000.pdf

Lodge membership
(See also Church membership; National Christian Association)
1857-1880 Lodge membership incompatible with membership in the church, 77, 119, 143, 204, 213, 217
1886 Knights of Labor, 32
1890 Patrons of Industry, unions, and Farmers Alliance are classified as secret organizations, 21, 23
1896 Question re the Maccabees, 37
1898 Question re Odd Fellows, 65
Question re Modern Woodmen, 65
1900 Basic position defined, 20ff., 56 Report, 49, 96ff.
1906 Question re Order of the Grange, 20
Re the resignation of a pastor from a lodge, 56ff.
1908 The Grange—opposed by synod, 42
1957 Re position of the church on the lodge, 51

Reactions: Like 1


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## JM (Mar 21, 2019)

My great grandfather was an Orangeman, Freemason and Presbyterian. He had three funeral services! 

What is historic position on the Orange Order?

Thanks, 

jm


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## hammondjones (Mar 21, 2019)

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/orange-order.69082/


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## JP Wallace (Mar 21, 2019)

hammondjones said:


> https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/orange-order.69082/



That was a fun thread Brandon


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## A.Joseph (Mar 22, 2019)

Don’t they basically run this place.... not Puritanboard. But most other places, with God’s allowance of course

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RamistThomist (Mar 22, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> Don’t they basically run this place.... not Puritanboard. But most other places, with God’s allowance of course



I don't think that is so much the case anymore. During the 18th and 19th centuries, sure. I think in any case the Masons were a "front" by the Luciferian groups. Now that the Masons aren't as important socially, I think the Luciferians probably use other fronts (e.g., CNN, Hollywood, etc).

Reactions: Like 2


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## Dachaser (Mar 23, 2019)

JM said:


> How have Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in the past dealt with the issue of Freemasonry?
> 
> Yours in the Lord,
> 
> jm


I know that the SBC did a position report on the Masons, and concluded that from the scriptures that no Baptist should be found part of their group.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JM (Mar 23, 2019)

There is a difference between Prince Hall Masons and mainstream white Masons.


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## Dachaser (Mar 23, 2019)

JM said:


> There is a difference between Prince Hall Masons and mainstream white Masons.


Do they not hold to the basic tenets of free masonry then still?


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## Edward (Mar 23, 2019)

JM said:


> There is a difference between Prince Hall Masons and mainstream white Masons.



Well, yes, anyone who isn't blind could see that.


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## Jack K (Mar 23, 2019)

py3ak said:


> The CRC appears to have condemned it in 1857.



That was the year the Christian Reformed Church split from the Dutch Reformed Church in America (soon to become just the RCA), and one of the main issues in the split was masonic membership. The CRC side was generally more traditional/conservative, and was against masonic membership.

As a result, the CRC has probably looked into the issue as thoroughly as any Reformed body has. Their website lists five reports in the various CRC Acts of Synod published over the years.

_Acts of Synod 1900_, pp. 96-101
_Acts of Synod 1958_, pp. 67-68, 416-22
_Acts of Synod 1974_, pp. 58-60, 504-67
_Acts of Synod 1975_, pp. 101, 547-69
_Acts of Synod 1977_, pp. 102-6, 575-96

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JM (Mar 23, 2019)

Edward said:


> Well, yes, anyone who isn't blind could see that.



Prince Hall Masons are not all black.


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## JM (Mar 23, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> Do they not hold to the basic tenets of free masonry then still?



The Ancient Landmarks are different in each jurisdiction.


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## Pergamum (Mar 29, 2019)

Research Freemasonry and the Apollo Program and Nasa. 

This should show that Freemasonry still held a great deal of sway until the latter decades of the 20th-Century. Masonic symbols made it on the first moon mission. 

Neil Armstrong was a mason and brought a flag on his mission. Not just the American flag but masonic symbols were left on the moon's surface.


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## Tom Hart (Mar 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Research Freemasonry and the Apollo Program and Nasa.
> 
> This should show that Freemasonry still held a great deal of sway until the latter decades of the 20th-Century. Masonic symbols made it on the first moon mission.
> 
> Neil Armstrong was a mason and brought a flag on his mission. Not just the American flag but masonic symbols were left on the moon's surface.



I haven't heard this before. Do you have a source?


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## RamistThomist (Mar 29, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> I haven't heard this before. Do you have a source?



I think the classic text is _Dark Mission_. I don't agree with everything the author said, but he documents a lot of these claims. I also think a free pdf is floating around online somewhere.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 29, 2019)

Search down for Buzz Aldrin. 
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Freemasons_(A–D)


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## Reformed Covenanter (Mar 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Research Freemasonry and the Apollo Program and Nasa.
> 
> This should show that Freemasonry still held a great deal of sway until the latter decades of the 20th-Century. Masonic symbols made it on the first moon mission.
> 
> Neil Armstrong was a mason and brought a flag on his mission. Not just the American flag but masonic symbols were left on the moon's surface.



That claim assumes that the moon landing took place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Mar 30, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> That claim assumes that the moon landing took place.


If you were trying to fake such a thing, the best folks to do the fakery would be a secret society sworn to secrecy.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Mar 30, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> If you were trying to fake such a thing, the best folks to do the fakery would be a secret society sworn to secrecy.



You sound like a member of such an organisation, but I am sure that your Masonic oath forbids you from telling us.


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## Pergamum (Mar 30, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> You sound like a member of such an organisation, but I am sure that your Masonic oath forbids you from telling us.



I was a Master Mason. I took blood oaths.

May my body be severed in twain, those twain burned to ashes, and those ashes scattered to the 4 winds of heaven should I ever knowingly or willingly violate this, my solemn obligation, as a __ mason.... or...may my body be buried in the rough sands of the sea, where the tide ebbs and flows twice and 24 hours....etc. Or may my throat be slit ear to ear....etc.

There is a initiation rite of death and resurrection where you are put into a grave of sorts and raised to new life.

I was hoping to get invited to join the Illuminati and take part in the conquest of the world, but it seems the Jewish bankers get that job and not us poor Ozark folks. I don't even get a free pass to the Build-a-Burger rallies (and I like burgers a lot)!

Reactions: Funny 1


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