# The most bizarre heresy you have ever encountered?



## srhoades (Apr 4, 2006)

I belong to a gun message board with a "religious discussion section". I generally avoid it because it is just full of pot stirrers and is just all around unfruitful. 

I ventured in there yesterday and posted in a thread where a "Christian" wanted to know if it was ok to date a Jehovah's Witness. I briefly stated the heresy of Arianism. Now this other member comes along and states that although he believes Jesus is God incarnate, that such belief is not necessary for salvation. I asked him how one could believe that Jesus is God, that salvation is through Jesus, yet believe in the incarnation was not a necessary tenet for salvation. He said the "Arian Christians" were not unfounded in there beliefs since scripture never explicitly states that belief in Jesus as God incarnate is necessary for salvation and that it was incumbent on me to provide scriptural evidence for it. 

At this point I found his position so absurd that any further discussion would be throwing my pearls before swine so I never responded.

What bizarre heresies have you come across during your discussions?

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by srhoades]

[Edited on 4-4-2006 by srhoades]


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## tellville (Apr 4, 2006)

Does the New Perspective on Paul count? 

"I must stress again that the doctrine of justification by faith is not what Paul means by "˜the gospel´. It is _implied_ by the gospel, when the gospel is proclaimed people come to faith and so are regarded by God as members of his people. *But "˜The gospel´ is not an account of how people get saved.* It is, as we saw in an earlier chapter the proclamation of the lordship of Jesus Christ. If we could only get that clear in current debate, a lot of of other false antitheses, not least than thinking about the mission of the church would quietly unrivaled before our eyes. Let us be quite clear the gospel is the announcement of Jesus´ lordship, which works with power to bring people to the family of Abraham now redefined around Jesus Christ and characterized solely by faith in him. "˜Justification´ is the doctrine which insists that all those who have this faith belong as full members of this family on this basis and no other."

Wright, N.T. "What Saint Paul Really Said: Was Paul of Tarsus the Real Founder of Christianity?" (Grand Rapids: W.B. Eerdmans, 1997), 133. (bold emphasis mine)


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## ReformedWretch (Apr 4, 2006)

Universalism.

Very, very bizarre.


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## Anton Bruckner (Apr 4, 2006)

I heard two guys say that, "God needs your hands, eyes and ears to operate in the world, because He has no other way." I think this is/was Myles Monroe.

I was like what?????????????????


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## py3ak (Apr 4, 2006)

I ran into an Ebionite. He was all about the feminine principle, which seems to be something of a departure from classic Ebionitism, as they thought the feminine principle was bad. He still didn't really like Paul very much though. When someone holds to James as the pope, and that anyone from Jesus' family can be Messiah, and that the Christian church finally apostasized at Nicea (an inevitable occurrence prophesied by Paul in Romans 11) that strikes me as pretty strange. And he didn't believe in the virgin birth.


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## JohnV (Apr 4, 2006)

I encountered a Marcionite a number of years ago. That view is so abstruse, and, I thought, extinct. Who would ever study it? So when I encountered this man, I was taken completely by surprise. It was a one-time meeting, and we talked about it for a while, maybe three quarters of an hour at most.

Also: We ( the singing group I as part of ) were once invited to sing at a coffee house/ drop-in centre in Toronto. We sang some of our gospel songs, and then wanted to sing songs that they knew. One man kept on asking for George Harrison's "My Sweet Lord". It wasn't until after some time that we began to realize that he was a Krishna follower, but not member ( for he wore normal teen-ager clothes, blue jeans and white T shirt. ) But we didn't talk at all about it, because it dawned on us later during the evening, like when we were winding down.


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## SRoper (Apr 4, 2006)

I don't know what it's called, but the view that there are nine persons in the Godhead because the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have a body, soul, and spirit.

Another strange view I've encountered is one I didn't quite understand so I may misstate it here. I think he claimed that Adam and Eve were not male and female humans as we would understand it, but Adam was the first man, and Eve was some component of Adam like his spirit or something.


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## tellville (Apr 4, 2006)

I just thougt I would mention:

Back in the day I thought Calvinism was pretty messed up.


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## Anton Bruckner (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SRoper_
> I don't know what it's called, but the view that there are nine persons in the Godhead because the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have a body, soul, and spirit.


Benny Hinn claimed the above in one of his many "crusades".


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## srhoades (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Slippery_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by SRoper_
> ...



If Benny Hinn's theology isn't bizarre, his hair more than makes up for it.


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## JohnV (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SRoper_
> I don't know what it's called, but the view that there are nine persons in the Godhead because the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit each have a body, soul, and spirit.



That must be the guy from Monsters Inc., the one with three eyes and wears glasses, the one who gets the doors for Randall. He sees everything X 3.


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## Casey (Apr 4, 2006)

Open Theism. (It's kinda wierd debating with one of these guys.)

 Finney's "Moral Government" doctrines. I'm not all that clear on this now, but I remember debating with someone who came to my college campus to "preach" the gospel (which was basically a guy and his family yelling at people to burn their CDs, etc.).

 Scientology. (Well, I haven't encountered this one, but I've studied it in apologetics.)

 "Left Behind" Dispensationalism.


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## Dan.... (Apr 4, 2006)

Harold Camping and his followers teach that the "church age" is over; that all "true believers" are to "depart out" of their churches. All churches have become apostate. 



[Edited on 4-4-2006 by Dan....]


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## Cuirassier (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by py3ak_
> When someone holds to James as the pope, and that anyone from Jesus' family can be Messiah, and that the Christian church finally apostasized at Nicea (an inevitable occurrence prophesied by Paul in Romans 11) that strikes me as pretty strange. And he didn't believe in the virgin birth.





I think this is definitely "up there" in the Heresy Hall of Shame. I mean, James, the first pope? C'mon, we all know that it was Peter!! 

dl


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## heartoflesh (Apr 4, 2006)

While I don't agree with dispensational premillennialism, I wouldn't consider it heretical.


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## Pilgrim (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by StaunchPresbyterian_
> 
> Finney's "Moral Government" doctrines. I'm not all that clear on this now, but I remember debating with someone who came to my college campus to "preach" the gospel (which was basically a guy and his family yelling at people to burn their CDs, etc.).



Sounds like "brother" Jed Smock, an avowed Pelagian and Finney fan, whose m.o. is going to college campuses and dishing out legalistic harangues. Almost has to be seen to be believed. 







[Edited on 4-5-2006 by Pilgrim]


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## Pilgrim (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Dan...._
> Harold Camping and his followers teach that the "church age" is over; that all "true believers" are to "depart out" of their churches. All churches have become apostate.
> 
> 
> ...



Yes that's pretty bizarre, especially coming from what was once a worthwhile ministry, especially for the many profitable programs they used to carry.


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## MeanieCalvinist (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by srhoades_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Slippery_
> ...



 Now that was funny!!


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## py3ak (Apr 4, 2006)

Daniel,

It actually occurred to me that their heresy might be valuable in that way --I mean the evidence for James is probably a little better than for Peter! But it was definitely not something you hear every day.


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## ProvidentiallyBlessed (Apr 4, 2006)

The most bizarre heresy I've encountered has to be full preterism, the belief that all prophecy has been fulfilled: Christ has already returned, and believers are currently living in the new heaven and new earth.


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## turmeric (Apr 4, 2006)

Yes, the Church has been plagued by many hairy ticks...

The most bizarre cult I ever met (which got organized, that is) was the Church of Unlimited Devotion. I think they actually got tax-exemot status before it was over. They believed the music of the Grateful Dead was sacred and thought of the concerts as "church".


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## py3ak (Apr 4, 2006)

Meg, I have to admit: I thought my Ebionite was good; John V's Marcionite topped him by a close margin. But your CUD friends definitely take the cake.


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## Puddleglum (Apr 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by StaunchPresbyterian_
> ...



I could almost swear that I saw that guy on campus last year when I was visiting the U . . . I had some free time to stop & listen, there were 2 guys (one who looked like this guy and was definately a Pelagian), both of whom were teaching that if you were a Christian, you didn't sin - he even said you could ask his wife, and she'd tell you he didn't sin more than a couple of times a month! 

[Edited on 4-5-2006 by Puddleglum]


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## JohnV (Apr 4, 2006)

Hmmm! Not more than a couple of times a month? I guess that was one of them?


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## Pilgrim (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puddleglum_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> ...



Did he denounce any gainsayers as HO-MO-sexuals and other assorted insults?


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## ~~Susita~~ (Apr 5, 2006)

Had a guy tell me that reading God's Word will not get you closer to Him, rather, this should be achieved by how you feel... What you feel the Holy Spirit is saying. You should avoid reading God's Word so you won't become a negative person.


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## ~~Susita~~ (Apr 5, 2006)

Oh, do I win?


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## Pilgrim (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by srhoades_
> I belong to a gun message board with a "religious discussion section". I generally avoid it because it is just full of pot stirrers and is just all around unfruitful.



Is the motto PTL, PTA?


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## RamistThomist (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ~~Susita~~_
> Had a guy tell me that reading God's Word will not get you closer to Him, rather, this should be achieved by how you feel... What you feel the Holy Spirit is saying. You should avoid reading God's Word so you won't become a negative person.



Those are always fun. I usually respond,

"The holy spirit tells me to do _______ (insert something scandalous)." 

Usually this works. Not always, though. It is good for shock and awe value.


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## Ivan (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ~~Susita~~_
> Had a guy tell me that reading God's Word will not get you closer to Him, rather, this should be achieved by how you feel... What you feel the Holy Spirit is saying. You should avoid reading God's Word so you won't become a negative person.



Hmmm...I wouldn't trust that guy!


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## Peters (Apr 5, 2006)

Once had a mormon guy tell me that Jesus and Lucifer used to be brothers. He also said things about the "father and Mary" that almost made me go apocalyptic on him.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Peters_
> Once had a mormon guy tell me that Jesus and Lucifer used to be brothers. He also said things about the "father and Mary" that almost made me go apocalyptic on him.


That's orthodox Mormon doctrine.


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## Casey (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by StaunchPresbyterian_
> ...


All I remember is that he was from Rockford, IL; I went to school in Whitewater, WI.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 5, 2006)

I was trying to think of cults today and then I remembered this wierd thing that my wife and I ran across one weekend about 10 years ago on the Mall in DC.

We saw this group dancing around and playing some folk music. The guys had beards and wore overalls and the ladies dressed like the Ingalls from Little House on the Prarie.

I asked one of the guys what they were doing and he started telling me this wierd theology. Apparently they were some sort of cult in PA that was founded in the 60's by some hippies (although he didn't say that). He pulled out the Bible and pointed to Daniel and the statue with Clay feet and Iron Feet. They had used the verses as some sort of "charge" that God's people had to separate themselves from society.

I don't remember much else about it except that he said they grew beards because it was somehow Scriptural. It was like hippie commune meets Calvary Chapel meets Green Acres.

The music was pretty good (they played on banjos and guitars) but the dudes stank like people that don't believe in Anti-Perspirant.


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## Casey (Apr 5, 2006)

> I could almost swear that I saw that guy on campus last year when I was visiting the U . . . I had some free time to stop & listen, there were 2 guys (one who looked like this guy and was definately a Pelagian), both of whom were teaching that if you were a Christian, you didn't sin - he even said you could ask his wife, and she'd tell you he didn't sin more than a couple of times a month!
> 
> [Edited on 4-5-2006 by Puddleglum]


I remember them "preaching" the exact same thing (I just don't remember what the guy looked like).


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## ~~Susita~~ (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SemperFideles_
> I was trying to think of cults today and then I remembered this wierd thing that my wife and I ran across one weekend about 10 years ago on the Mall in DC.
> 
> We saw this group dancing around and playing some folk music. The guys had beards and wore overalls and the ladies dressed like the Ingalls from Little House on the Prarie.
> ...



 I think you win 

That is sad, though.


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## ~~Susita~~ (Apr 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> Those are always fun. I usually respond,
> 
> "The holy spirit tells me to do _______ (insert something scandalous)."
> ...



Yeah he kept telling me that God will reveal His truth to you Himself, and I'm like, "How can you know God's will if you haven't even read His letter to you!" I confess, I wanted to slap Him and say, "God told me to do that."


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## Pilgrim (Apr 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ~~Susita~~_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



 I know what you mean. As Jacob wrote, sometimes saying something outrageous like that will shock them to their senses, or may at least encourage them to reexamine things. 

[Edited on 4-6-2006 by Pilgrim]


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## RamistThomist (Apr 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ~~Susita~~_
> ...



However, a problem with reductios is that some people will go ahead and swallow them. In the case of cultists/heretics this is highly likely. So be careful.


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## bigheavyq (Apr 6, 2006)

davinci code believers.
I was at walmart and this butchy female tells me how great and true this book is. I said it wasn't based on fact and distorts the truth. She said that she was an episcopal priest and that she knows it to be fact and I should not question here on this because she was a priest. 

Oh, the deception of the devil.
how does God deal with such fools and liberals???


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## RamistThomist (Apr 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bigheavyq_
> davinci code believers.
> I was at walmart and this butchy female tells me how great and true this book is. I said it wasn't based on fact and distorts the truth. She said that she was an episcopal priest and that she knows it to be fact and I should not question here on this because she was a priest.
> 
> ...




Next time ask her if she should be called "priestess," it beign the female version of priest. THey always refuse to bite on that one.


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## CalsFarmer (Apr 6, 2006)

My favorite heresy...I kid you not: 

"You will go to hell if you do not take the Lords Supper once a week".


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## Cuirassier (Apr 6, 2006)

I was thinking about this thread the other day ....

... and I realised that we've overlooked something pretty close at hand:

transubstantiation doctrine in the RCC. I mean, is this not a bizarre manipulation of John 6.53 and I Cor 11?

Literal eating and drinking of the Lord's body and blood in communion certainly ranks "up there" .... 

dl


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## Randall Pederson (Apr 6, 2006)

I have been exposed to a lot of heresies in my day, at the ripe young age of 30. Let's see, the top five list would probably be:

a) that God the Father, the Holy Spirit, and Jesus are manifestations of the one person, God the Father (i.e. modalism)

b) that man is the master of his own destiny (i.e. Arminianism)

c) that man is basically a good person (i.e. Pelagianism)

d) that everyone's path to God is equally valid (i.e. pluralism)

e) that only international students can qualify for scholarships (oops! how did that get there)


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## Larry Hughes (Apr 6, 2006)

Theophostic Counciling
Emmaus Community


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 6, 2006)

I just discovered a new one (for me at least). I had never really read Immanuel Kant's views on Christ until the past few days - what a dork. No wonder where all the liberals get that stuff from. Sorry if this is old news to many of you guys...


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Apr 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by CalsFarmer_
> My favorite heresy...I kid you not:
> 
> "You will go to hell if you do not take the Lords Supper once a week".



Sounds familiar...


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Cuirassier_
> I was thinking about this thread the other day ....
> 
> ... and I realised that we've overlooked something pretty close at hand:
> ...


My mother and brothers are Eucharistic ministers in the RC Church. They're trained to watch people with the wafer and the wine to ensure that they don't leave the Church with it. Some Satanic cults will "sacrifice" the host in their ceremonies and we can't have that happen to the actual substance of Christ.

For the longest time the RCC witheld the elements from the congregation. They were afraid that the blood might be spilled or crumbs would be ingested by rats and we can't have pieces of Christ in rat's bellies.

Finally, while the "Host" is on the altar the entire congregation kneels. When the Host is removed then people are permitted to sit down. It's brought to the Sacistry where people can go a pray around pieces of Christ.


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## puritan reformed (Apr 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SemperFideles_
> The music was pretty good (they played on banjos and guitars) but the dudes stank like people that don't believe in Anti-Perspirant.


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## py3ak (Apr 7, 2006)

Did that thumbs up mean you don't believe in anti-perspirants?


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## puritan reformed (Apr 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by py3ak_
> Did that thumbs up mean you don't believe in anti-perspirants?


You guys are hilarious, thanks for the much needed laughter


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## puritan reformed (Apr 7, 2006)

"Stank" was funny too.


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