# Seeking Many Opinions - Top Five Dangers Of Raising Children Today



## Pergamum (Jun 23, 2008)

Hello;

I have a 3 1/2 year old and a 1 year old.


I seek your opinions, informed or otherwise:



What are the top five dangers of raising kids today?

What are the top five mistakes of homeschooling your children?

What are the top five errors/dangers/bad trends among reformed Christians who homeschool or try to rasie their children Biblically?

What are the top five popular misconceptions that you would like to challenge (i.e. popular opinion says one thing about raising children, but you know better).

What are the top five in bad advice you have received from other Christians about raising your children?

What are the top five bad teachings that are normally heard in church about raising children?

What are the top five purchases which would help one with small children (educational or otherwise
).



...Just trying to generate thoughts about the intentional care and feeding of my children...


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## danmpem (Jun 23, 2008)

I'll give you my #1 danger of raising kids:

They're going to be too much like me.

That's all the world needs, ten more Dan Pemberton's in the world. And even if they are only 50% of me, the other half is from a woman who is just crazy enough to marry and multiply with me.


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## Wannabee (Jun 24, 2008)

What are the top five dangers of raising kids today?
A WORLDLY VIEW OF "NEEDS."

What are the top five mistakes of homeschooling your children?
ELITISM CAN BE ONE, BUT NOT NECESSARILY.
A TENDENCY TO FOCUS ON OUR OWN STRENGTHS.

What are the top five errors/dangers/bad trends among reformed Christians who homeschool or try to raise their children Biblically?
ELITISM, AGAIN.

What are the top five popular misconceptions that you would like to challenge (i.e. popular opinion says one thing about raising children, but you know better).
THAT HOMESCHOOL CHILDREN ARE NOT AS SOCIALLY SKILLED AS PUBLIC EDUCATED CHILDREN. SIMPLY PUT, PUBLIC EDUCATION TEACHES CHILDREN TO INTERACT WITH CHILDREN, AS CHILDREN. HOME EDUCATION TENDS TO TEACH CHILDREN HOW TO INTERACT AS CHILDREN WITH ADULTS, AND EVENTALLY AS ADULTS AS THERE IS LITTLE PEER PRESSURE TO FORCE THEM TO BEHAVE AS CHILDREN. THEY TEND TO BE "LITTLE ADULTS."

What are the top five in bad advice you have received from other Christians about raising your children?
BOYS WILL BE BOYS! 
TIME OUT IS SUFFICIENT - SPANKING IS ABUSIVE. 
IT'S NOT THE QUANTITY OF TIME YOU SPEND WITH THEM, BUT THE QUALITY. HOGWASH! IT'S *BOTH*!

What are the top five bad teachings that are normally heard in church about raising children?
YOUNGER TEACHERS CAN RELATE TO YOUR CHILDREN BETTER THAN YOU CAN.

What are the top five purchases which would help one with small children (educational or otherwise).
BOOKS. LOTS OF GOOD BOOKS. OUR SONS WERE MAINLY EDUCATED THROUGH BOOKS. BY READING ONE LEARNS GOOD GRAMMAR, INTUITIVELY. BY READING ONE LEARNS GOOD VOCABULARY. AND, OF COURSE, IF THE BOOKS ARE THE RIGHT ONES THEY ARE LEARNING GOOD MATERIAL. INVEST YEARS IN ADVANCE. MAKE THEM READ BOOKS THAT ARE HARD FOR THEM TO UNDERSTAND. IT WILL STRETCH THEM AND MAKE THEM LEARN FASTER. IT WILL ALSO TEACH THEM HOW TO TEACH THEMSELVES. THEY DON'T NEED TO BE TAUGHT WHAT TO THINK SO MUCH HAS *HOW *TO THINK (WITHIN REASON OF COURSE). CHOSE SUBJECTS CAREFULLY, AND GET THE BEST YOU CAN FIND.


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## Pergamum (Jun 24, 2008)

One issue for me is that I know work at home, and the work is often very consuming. 

In the army I did about 4 12-hour shifts per week, bt when I came home I "came home" Now, I meet with many leaders and do much with my family, but still am consumed by work at times. I.e. I do not leave it.

Also, it is hard to think and study at home when little feet are always right outside my office. So the lack of separation between "work" and "home" causes stress sometimes. I would love to compartmentalize my life a bit more.

So, one struggle is how to work at home and still balance kid time. One solution I am struggling with is to enforce office hours at home when I am not to be distrubed in my office....but this is hard to abide by.... So, I am trying right now to work at certain hours and then have designated "play hours" - but how weird does that sound?


Any suggestions?


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## Wannabee (Jun 24, 2008)

That's exactly what we did Pergamum. Here are some meandering thoughts that might help. I would get up early for private devotions. Breakfast was followed by family devotion time (my sons being older). They did their chores/school work while I studied. Lunch with the family is a blessing, and I'd try to do it liesurely whenever possible. After lunch was correspondence/study/meeting or whatever else demanded my attention. With wee ones perhaps a "play time" for a half hour after lunch would be a good introduction to a nap time for them, depending on how you do things.
Part of what makes this work is a wife who is on board and has meals prepared with great punctuality. We had our meals at somewhat precise times. That way after my afternoon studies/obligations we would meet at 5:30 to eat our evening meal. This allowed about 1.5 hours for time together if we had Bible study that night; longer on nights we don't have it. Family devotions were at seven each evening, and might entail anything from reading a novel (then discussing it from a biblical standpoint) to watching a program to just spending time in prayer. Then we had a time of filling in gaps before the kids went to bed (9). That left time for Pam and I. The goal was to always go to bed together, even if I had to get up early in the morning, or later that night, to study more.
Another thing we did was to have Saturday mornings set as a time of family recreation. Often the boys and I would go bike riding, play tennis or do something else physical. 
Notice that much of this is past tense. We're struggling to maintain a schedule right now because we haven't had our own home for many months. It's been tough to keep disciplined in this are when subject to others' schedules so much. So, we've been flexible. But we're looking forward to a time of consistency again.
Some other thoughts - schedules are good rules, but not good rulers. We have to be flexible and always looking for ways to improve them. When you kids know that a certain time is set aside just for them then they're less likely to interrupt, especially if they know that their interruptions make it more difficult for you to spend time with them later.
We had rules such as no entering my study during certain hours unless it was an emergency (understanding that their version of an emergency was often vastly different than mine). If interruption was deemed necessary, then, unless it was life threatening, they were to stand at the door and wait until I called them in before speaking so that they would not disrupt my train of thought. Once everyone understood this it worked well. 
Part of our problem is that we don't teach our children headship principles well. The entire family, from day one, must be focused on the same goals. Obviously it's harding with the babies. But as they grow they come to understand that the whole family is about Daddy's work, which is centered on Glorifying God. Therefore, as we help Daddy to do his work well, we are instrumental in helping to bring glory to God. To borrow from military language (and a decent book on manhood), the Daddy is the point man. He is to be supported and recognized as the front man who is the spear head, spokesman, leader, CEO, etc, of the family. All roles are supporting rolls for the father.

Hope that helps some.


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## Pergamum (Jun 24, 2008)

Thanks! THe offcie hours rule will be helpful.


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## a mere housewife (Jun 24, 2008)

Pergy, since you're seeking many opinions I'll add mine.

With Cord, our foster child -- I made the mistake of thinking that if he was doing something wrong, then I was: and if I was doing something right, he would. This is a practical denial of total depravity and grace. This mentality can lead to being too hard on the child because of being overly concerned about how the child reflects on you.

I also made the mistake of assuming that the natural way I interacted with Cord, the pity I felt and the mercy I wanted to show etc., weren't getting enough results so I had to follow somebody else's childrearing handbook.

Another mistake after I got discouraged was to talk about his failings to my family and friends. Even with Ruben, his failings defined our conversations about him. Little wonder that his failings defined our relationship, until finally I felt like I was simply responding to his disobedience rather than exercising any kind of discipline -- he was in control.

I think many of these failings go back to a view that being a parent and punishing infractions is about modeling God the judge rather than God the father: exercising a courtroom style justice rather than the discipline and mercy God mingles to teach, rather than to simply punish infractions of those who are in Christ

I also made the mistake of making a big deal about every single infraction. Sure disobedience is always sin. But hastily and rather sloppily cleaning the bathroom is not on the same level as telling a lie, and I think the temptation to treat them as the same thing is largely personal affront that "_I _told him to clean the bathroom thoroughly' etc. It also drives the child to despair: he's already being punished as if he'd spit in your face, so why should he not commit the offense. I believe that it's easy for an adult to cause a child to harden their heart this way. 

As regards homeschooling, I made the mistake of not making allowances for the way he functioned in school. For instance, he was very easily overwhelmed. If I broke things down for him and gave him only the first part he could do it. If I set all the days' homework in front of him at once he would simply balk: sit for hours grinding away with his pencil at the desk. I took this as lack of discipline and tried, by simply forcing the pile at him, to make him get over it. The pile got bigger and he, more unable to do it. He needed some accommodation until he could learn to break things down and manage them himself.

I think my parents made the mistake with us of assuming that if they homeschooled us they were protecting us from the world. & Protecting us from the world meant keeping us from the realities of the world, rather than teaching us how to judge of those realities. The realities they didn't keep us from were those of worry about finances etc. I grew up feeling often responsible for things I had no ability to do anything about, and having no resources to deal with the situations I met. However I don't mean to indicate that my parents were not extremely wonderful. I would be happy to make only these mistakes. What they have always done right was to love us unconditionally, and to make a priority of our spiritual welfare. They are still doing that. 

I agree about books. My husband's family had a very minimal approach to schooling, but they had a large library, and they had no bedtime if they could still get up and do school. They had no TV and weren't allowed to go out; so they read. Ruben was re-reading the _Dialogues of Plato _when I met him when he was 12. He'd first read it at age 8 but didn't feel he'd profited enough. He and his brothers are fairly capable of doing anything they can read about. Ruben for instance often enrages me by entrapping me in an argument with the Socratic method. His other brother builds boats.


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## jwithnell (Jun 24, 2008)

Dangers: #1 Our over-sexualized society, especially for girls; even 10-year-old girls are told (by society) that they are not attractive unless they're provocative. #2 What's in advertising is not truth. The kids hear and see things with their own eyes and it's hard to convince them that the advertiser cares only to sell them something and that it could be very harmful. #3 That life is about being entertained (so much for 6 days shall you labor ..)


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## DMcFadden (Jun 24, 2008)

Pergy,

I'm in a bit of a rush at work. This will have to suffice for now.

*Review:*
Jeanette and I have had children in the home for 31.5 uninterrupted years!
#1 Son - 31, married, 3 sons, associate pastor, adjunct professor, leading mission trip to Caribbean next week
#2 Son - 29, married, 1 son, civil litigator (MBA, JD)
#3 Daughter - 26, married, former missionary, now Christian high school teacher
#4 Son - 23 - married, aspiring rock musician
#5 Daughter - 17 in a few weeks, now in Kenya doing 3 wks STM

*Mistakes -*
#1 - too anal retentive with rules with first born. He turned out great due to his wonderful mother. Too much discipline, not enough father-son talks. Probably too young to be a good father at 23.

#2 - too much head butting with strong willed son. He also turned out great due to his wonderful mother. Too many academic expectations, not enough praise.

#3 - nearly perfect balance of love and discipline. She turned out great! Lots of father-daughter time during nightly 5 mile jogs (when I was considerably lighter than now!).

#4 - nearly catastrophic failure to "read" my son and his needs. He was quite physical and somewhat hyper. Efforts by parents and teachers to impose rules backfired, leaving him feeling like he needed to seek out friends with more problems than himself so that he could feel good about himself in his hyper-achieving family (mom and dad = 23 years of college/grad school; one older sib graduated summa from college, first in class in MBA, and magna in law school, another did college and seminary in 4.5 years (summa) and taught as adjunct in college during seminary, etc.). No matter where we lived, he always found the worst peer group and experienced minor trouble with law, dropped out of college, and is still struggling even though married. He needed more of my time and a MUCH greater realization that every child is DIFFERENT. What worked with his older sibs proved counter-productive with him.

#5 - Loves the Lord, does fine in school, but has a bit of the "only child" syndrome. The older three were raised entirely on Baptist pastor poverty wages and seemed to flourish because of it. The youngest one has benefited materially by being the only child in the house and dad being in a more remunerative ministry. On balance, poor is better. Americans are drunk on affluence and having less than the Joneses can have some valuable additional side effects for the character. 

*Positives -*
* Kids need to see that dad and mom love God.
* Kids need to see that dad and mom love each other.
* Kids need to see that dad and mom love them.
* Kids need FIRM boundaries, administered with grace.
* Kids need mom and dad to be open about seeking forgiveness and reconciliation with each other and with the kids when they blow it.
* Kids need parents who "exegete" their children rather than assuming "one size fits all" solutions will "work."

My "philosophy" of child rearing is nothing new: roots and wings. For 18 years the Lord entrusts a child to my care to love, discipline, shape, and encourage. Then, I want to set that independent adult free to grow up outside my obsessive anal-retentive grasp. We encouraged all of our kids to select colleges at least 2,000 miles from home. [Unfortunately, they all found spouses in that vicinity and settled down in the midwest!]

#1 PIECE OF ADVICE FOR UNMARRIED MEN - Find a wife much more together than you are and trust the Lord to produce a good outcome.


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## jwithnell (Jun 24, 2008)

I've had the chance to think about the homeschooling mistakes; here in no particular order:

1. Families discount the value of a quiet home life for rearing solid citizens. I've known folks who give the best reasons to home school their children, then have them live their lives stuck in the back of a mini-van going from soccer, to co-op, to piano, to art. Not that any of these things are wrong, but it seems to defeat the purpose of a home-based life and education.

2.Families get stuck on one curriculum. Different publishers have different strengths. Different kids benefit from different approaches. Don't lose the flexibility that homeschooling gives you.

3. Trying to recreate the classroom in the home. Many home schooling curricula were designed for the classroom. In my experience, the more home schooling is integrated into your overall home life, the better it will be for all involved. 

4. Not integrating tight deadlines and quality control in the classwork as students get older. (This one comes from a professor who has taught many home-schooled kids. Many just don't get that something is due at a particular date and time.)

5. Being cliquish with other home schooling (or other co-op) parents in the life of the congregation.

Can I add one more? Failing to join an organization that will look out for your legal rights as a home-schooling family. In some states, social service workers and school districts will run all over you. The stories are absolutely hair-raising!


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## jenney (Jun 25, 2008)

extraordinarily long reply. At least you can just ignore it. Like spam!


What are the top five dangers of raising kids today?
The myth that moms need "Me Time" in order to function. I don't need extra time to focus on Me. I'm all about _Me_ already!
 Pragmatism.
 That the concept of a "teenager" is anything other than a marketing demographic, so we are tricked into expecting rebellion and then accept it instead of challenging sin where we might see it. Youth is a fantastic opportunity where people could learn to serve others without the demands of a family, yet it is usually squandered on hanging out at the mall and loitering in front of In-N-Out Burger.
 The idea that tv is anything but a waste of their precious time.
 That it's okay for an as-yet-undeveloped young lady to be immodest and that we'll switch out of bikinis when she starts getting The Look from men. By then, vanity will likely have taken hold and it will be really hard to get her to want to cover up, but our beautiful young ladies aren't prepared for it by dressing appropriately from toddlerhood.


What are the top five mistakes of homeschooling your children?

Being so busy that we forget we are to be _busy at home_. Between soccer and piano and the reading program at the library and the homeschool group and the science fair, et cetera, we can be homeschoolers who aren't ever home.
 Being so inward focused that our children never learn to show hospitality to strangers, only to fellow church members or other homeschooling families. There is a danger in never letting our children see us share our faith with unbelievers unless they (the unbelievers) are related to us.
 Comparing ourselves to the academic progress of other families. If their kids read earlier than ours, we are covetous. If their kids read later than ours, we are proud. It is easy to fall into pride whether we succeed or fail!


What are the top five errors/dangers/bad trends among reformed Christians who homeschool or try to rasie their children Biblically?
For my family, it is avoiding a judgmental attitude first and foremost. My kids are prone to rolling their eyes or even snorting in derision at someone who raises his hands and sways during a worship song or even closes his eyes. This grieves me and I've discussed it with them so that they no longer do it, but the heart attitude is often the same: "oh, look at that deluded dummy!" They don't say so, but I think at the heart of it, they think, "mom and dad don't approve of that behavior, so if I scorn it, then we'll be together in superiority over someone else." *I hate it*, but I see it in other reformed families too, a temptation to look down on those who are less TC ("theologically correct") with a More-Doctrinal-Than-Thou attitude.

I also see a tendency toward moralism and formalism. A lot of kids seem sort of outwardly obedient and godly but don't have a real passion for Jesus Christ. They do all the right things and have all the right verses memorized but they don't actually _love God_. I see that even in my believing children, a propensity toward looking good on the outside while cherishing sin on the inside. (Now that I think about it, I see it in myself, too. I must be where they get it!)


What are the top five popular misconceptions that you would like to challenge (i.e. popular opinion says one thing about raising children, but you know better).
"More than two children are a burden." My heart breaks for Christians who've bought into this lie.
"There's only one way to school/breastfeed/birth children." My family is happy with homeschooling, demand feeding and home birth, but I know other godly families who have made different choices for theirs.
"Our children succeed because we are good parents." No, No, NO! Our children succeed despite us! It is only by the grace of God that our children even make it to adulthood with sinners for parents. When we forget that, we rely on ourselves instead of on the Lord.


What are the top five in bad advice you have received from other Christians about raising your children?
Just five?
If you spank that girl, she'll have low self esteem.
If you don't let your daughter date, she'll rebel and do it anyway.
If you let your baby sleep in your bed, he'll never get out. (Really? But all six of his sisters did!)
Homeschooled kids are socially retarded.
Do whatever it takes to get them to enjoy church, even going to a less-Biblical church.


What are the top five bad teachings that are normally heard in church about raising children?

That they need a special Sunday School class right up into college. Why couldn't a 15 year old understand the adult class? My experience has been that a lot of families teach their children that doctrine is hard and boring so the children think they need to have milk instead of solid food until age 18. Then *wham!* they are plopped into "grown up church" and miss the open discussions, donuts and crumpled paper fights of the youth Sunday School. (and I know in many of evangelical churches it is a lot worse: games, coarse jesting and a lot of foolishness mark the high school group. I'm just talking about the discussion-format of the high school group at my church. They have breakfast in there and talk. It's alright but not as good as the adult class where we're studying the Nature of God. Without donuts and apple danish.)


What are the top five purchases which would help one with small children (educational or otherwise

Here are some of my favorites, having been limited to just five, I left off a few!
_Shepherding a Child's Heart_ by Tedd Tripp.
_Heart of Anger_ by Lou Priolo
_Teach them Diligently_ by Lou Priolo (about incorporating Scripture in everyday living)
_Training Hearts, Teaching Minds_ by Starr Meade (this goes through the shorter catechism, one week per question)
 Anything from Doorposts. Their resources are excellent--convicting and encouraging.)


I'm not an expert. My oldest is only 13! I may end up retracting some things in ten years. Ask me again then!

~jen


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## Pergamum (Jun 25, 2008)

WOW,

Some really good responses. No need to apologize for the length of them, I read them all twice. Thanks.

I take my son on many "ministry trips" and at night (he is 3 and 1/2 years old) he brings up and prays for different prayer needs. Example, last night he prayed for Paulus's "sick foot" and that God would turn drunks and bad guys into good guys. Pretty moving to hear the prayers of a young child, especially for people that scare him (Paulus's foot scares him and the drunks terrify him). 

I think this involvement is excellent, but I also need to better guard time away from ministry with him so that all of our time together is not checking on sick people or meeting with local evangelists. I am struggling to guard my time with family and also my time alone. I still feel like I need some solitary time each day and some "alone time" to think, read, pray, etc, all of which I haven't been doing as much as I would like.


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## BobVigneault (Jun 25, 2008)

This probably isn't a problem for you but I'll mention it for the sake of young parents. Beware of the pressure to drug your kids. Public schools and even other parents will not want little boys acting like little boys. They will encourage you to 'get your child tested'.

We have had foster children and not only are they encouraged to be drug enhanced but the state will give parents more money depending on how many 'disorder' labels you can get slapped on your kid. Beware!

When we were young we put way too much faith in the 'high priests' of medicine.


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## a mere housewife (Jun 25, 2008)

Bob, that is very true. When Cord came to us he was so drugged up on Ritalin he often couldn't follow a sentence: the words simply had no meaning for him. He was labeled 'autistic' and his mom had state money for that. The day we got him, his ritalin prescription ran out. Our family dr. refused to take him as a patient, and while we were deciding what to do he had to go off of Ritalin cold turkey. He had absolutely zero side effects. He had been accustomed to throwing up all night (of course he would consume a family pack of cookies and a gallon of milk before doing so), waking up and screaming -- his mom warned us he would do this and I woke up sick at 6 AM the first morning waiting for the screams: he never screamed at our house once. He couldn't add 2 plus 2 or read the word 'cat' though he should have been in the sixth grade. By the time he left he was reading phonetically and adding/subtracting numbers into the thousands, and reciting short chapters of Scripture from memory - Ruben taught him math and Bible. We never tried to put him back on the Ritalin because he didn't seem to us at all autistic. I think they did this to control his behavior -- initially he was just very hyper and had not been taught self control (but his mom basically fed them candy for meals); later even on ritalin he had tried to set fire to several houses and broken into cars, etc. The more they drugged him, the more violently he reacted as the drug dosage wore off.

Incidentally he stopped by our house a few years afterwards, and was doing very well. He seemed even to have had a work of grace done in his heart despite all the mistakes we agonized over for years afterwards: God had mercy. He was going to church on his own, working two jobs, making b's in high school, etc.


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## Pergamum (Jun 25, 2008)

No drugs here except excessive sugar sometimes.


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## Mindaboo (Jun 29, 2008)

What are the top five dangers of raising kids today?
Materialism
Youth Groups. Our oldest daughter was exposed to a lot of bad doctrine and not enough adult oversight. Thankfully she was able to stand firm, but when we realized what was happening we removed her.
Peer Pressure

What are the top five mistakes of homeschooling your children?
I pushed to hard with my oldest. I wanted her to read before she was ready.
Not protecting my time, I answered the phone when it rang, babysat whenever people asked, set up playdates in the middle of the day, did Bible studies. I was overscheduling my time and became overwhelmed and burned out quickly.
I let my husband choose the curriculum one year and I just couldn't make it work. We both decided I needed to pick the curriculum myself since I was the one doing the teaching.
I always compared myself and my kids to other people. I have learned to trust that the Lord knows me and my children and that His grace will be sufficient in all things.

What are the top five errors/dangers/bad trends among reformed Christians who homeschool or try to rasie their children Biblically?
Wanting brain surgeons, instead of just normal kids.


What are the top five popular misconceptions that you would like to challenge (i.e. popular opinion says one thing about raising children, but you know better).
Socialization. I get so tired of hearing that my kids are not social, but are being taught to be self absorbed. 
People think that since I have no college education that I am not capable. I am a high school graduate and am finding that I am quite capable through the Lord's grace. 


What are the top five in bad advice you have received from other Christians about raising your children?
Pick your battles carefully. 
Boys will be boys.
It is just a phase, they will outgrow it.
On the other hand, my best friend, who is an 81 year old elderly woman told me, "Stop worrying about the house and how messy it is. Keep teaching your children, keep reading scripture and teaching them the things of the Lord." She said she focused too much on the appearance of her home and not enough on spiritual things and two out of her three children were unbelievers. It really keeps me focused. Homeschooling is about more than raising children to educate them, it is about raising up a godly seed for God's glory. If they know 2 plus 2 equals 4, but they don't know that Jesus is Lord, what good is that?

What are the top five bad teachings that are normally heard in church about raising children?
I can't think of any!

What are the top five purchases which would help one with small children (educational or otherwise
).
Big Truths for Little Kids, by Susan Hunt It is based on the shorter chatechism, with stories and scriptures to go with it. My kids loved this. She also has Discovering Jesus in Genesis and Discovering Jesus in Exodus.
Making Brothers and Sisters Best Friends by the Mallys
Sonlight has an awesome reading list. We haven't found a book from the read aloud list that we didn't like. 
Teaching Hearts, Training Minds
Audio Books, my kids love to listen to books.


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