# Days of Vengeance



## Scot (May 10, 2007)

http://www.daysofvengeance.com/library/last_trump/ten_facts_proving_dead_church.htm


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## BobVigneault (May 10, 2007)

I'm renaming that article, "Ten Evidences That Ron Tiemens (King James Onlyist) Rant Button Is Stuck On".


If he just noticed those 10 facts about the visible church then he is 6000 years too late. If the church is dead now based on his criteria then the church was still born.

The church indeed suffers from many short comings but Christ said HE WOULD BUILD HIS CHURCH and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. So what is his solution, join Harold Camping?


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## Contra_Mundum (May 10, 2007)

The article was written by a "Campingite".

He's advising all his readers to exit the visible church.

The church is too full of blemishes, he says.

There are NO faithful churches, he says, at least none that are good enough for his exalted taste. Not even one? Maybe, but you know it's a little far to drive...

25 years ago the OPC church he attended offended him. I guess that was the last straw.

Good thing he wasn't alive in the first century. With all the problems in the church then (read 1 Corinthians, the last chapter of Phillipians, Rev. 2&3) he might have REALLY been discouraged.

[edit] *Bob, that's a great take. "6000 years too late."* [/edit]


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## BobVigneault (May 10, 2007)

I looked at his site, he's pretty sure (but not positive) that the end of the world happens in 2011. This is a case of "last days madness" we got here.


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## Scot (May 10, 2007)

> I looked at his site, he's pretty sure (but not positive) that the end of the world happens in 2011



Isn't that what Camping is teaching now?


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## BobVigneault (May 10, 2007)

That article is a perfect example of how a dispensational hermeneutic can skew ones view of the world to such an extent that sound doctrine suffers.

Here are two quotes:

“I look upon this world as a sinking ship, and the Lord
has given me a lifeboat, and told me: ‘Moody, save all you can’.” Dwight Moody


"There is not a square inch
in the whole domain of our human existence
over which Christ, who is Sovereign over all,
does not cry: 'Mine!'" Abraham Kuyper

Moody was wrong to see the world as a sinking ship. He used the sentiment to drum up a missionary fervor, this wasn't a bad goal, but he denied God's covenant and intimate relationship with his creation. Camping and Tiemen make this same mistake.

The church used to meet in secret in catacombs, now we have amazing freedom in the US. In other countries where the church is not free, it still thrives and it thrives with an orthodoxy and clarity that we westerners ought to envy.

The world has suffered enough because of the 'christian ghetto' mentality. If the world seems to be going to hell in a hand basket then it is a call for the church to engage it and not run to our cloisters. If the church seems to be going to hell in a hand basket then it must return to it's Biblical form, or as we say here, Semper Reformanda.


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## staythecourse (May 10, 2007)

*Thanks Bob. That was good.*



> The world has suffered enough because of the 'christian ghetto' mentality. If the world seems to be going to hell in a hand basket then it is a call for the church to engage it and not run to our cloisters. If the church seems to be going to hell in a hand basket then it must return to it's Biblical form, or as we say here, Semper Reformanda.


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