# Apologetics as Bloodsport



## AdamM (Feb 13, 2006)

I was just wondering if others have noticed that of all the topics on the web that get hashed out by Reformed folks, nothing seems to get as nasty as debates over formal apologetical approaches?


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## crhoades (Feb 13, 2006)

theonomy or baptism has to come a close second!


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## RamistThomist (Feb 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> theonomy or baptism has to come a close second!



Not even close; just wait until election season!!!

Seriously, 
Apologetics is exciting and quite impressionable upon young minds, and that's not necessarily bad. Reformed people have done a wonderful job in getting American Christians to think again. Again, that is good. One of the corollaries is the emphasis upon apologetics (thinking...apologetics...mental effort). What happens, though, at least in my own life and I imagine in many others, is that we develop a warm affection to those teachers who trained us in Christian Theology and Apologetics:
RC Sproul = John Gerstner
John Robbins = Gordon Clark
Greg Bahnsen = Van Til
Me = Greg Bahnsen

There is nothing wrong with having a warm affection for our teachers. John Frame did the Presup world a wonderful job when he chastisted several Van Tillians for elevating Van Til to cult status.


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## knight4christ8 (Feb 14, 2006)

I would say that it gets nasty because . . .

now prepare yourselves presuppositionalists, I don't want you to sin in fury against me . . .

Presuppositionalism, as purported by Van Til and Clark, encourages a lack of love and care for the unbeliever. Reformed theology shows us "but for the grace of God, there goes me", but arrogance accompanies the presuppositionalists arguements often it seems. 
Now, understand that I am not saying that this disproves presuppositionalism, but that this might possibly be an area that presuppositionalists need to be aware of. We should be slow to speak and slow to become angry . . . giving a reason for the hope that we have.


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## Peter (Feb 14, 2006)

Isn't that Butler fellow supposed to be like Bahnsen's protege.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> Isn't that Butler fellow supposed to be like Bahnsen's protege.



Yes, but in my experience of Butler, he is quite gracious. Too gracious, in fact. What made Bahnsen devastating in debate was his eagerness to go for blood and deliver the death blow to any philosophy that exalts itself against the knowledge of Christ. That is good. There is a place for that. When Butler hones his oratory skills and develops said bloodlust, then watch out!


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## fredtgreco (Feb 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by knight4christ8_
> I would say that it gets nasty because . . .
> 
> now prepare yourselves presuppositionalists, I don't want you to sin in fury against me . . .
> ...



I think this tendency exists, but I see it just as much in Clarkians. I think that there is something about the mindset that focuses so much on apologetics that causes this to be so.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 14, 2006)

Recent ads I've seen promoting Bahnsen materials illustrate this. The slogans included "Crush the Competition" and "Bahnsen makes atheists cry".

Is that our goal, to "Crush the Competition?"


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## fredtgreco (Feb 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> Recent ads I've seen promoting Bahnsen materials illustrate this. The slogans included "Crush the Competition" and "Bahnsen makes atheists cry".
> 
> Is that our goal, to "Crush the Competition?"



It is interesting to me that both our Lord and the Apostles (one thinks of Paul and Peter) are not particularly concerned with, or harsh with those who have unbelieving "worldviews." They are much more strident with false teachers within the covenant community.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> Recent ads I've seen promoting Bahnsen materials illustrate this. The slogans included "Crush the Competition" and "Bahnsen makes atheists cry".
> 
> Is that our goal, to "Crush the Competition?"



you are referring to reformed.org.

Um...I know where you are getting at. In my own personal experience, it depends on the situation. Of course, I will never be an @$$ to atheists, but if they are getting vicious, I too, Lord willing, will be equally forceful, but hopefully more gracious. Then again, unregenerate man is more than that: he is an enemy of the gospel until God converts him.

Now, if someone is "searching" (in a non-Calvinistic sense  ), I will cut them some slack and try to meet them where they are. I have done that before. 

I think the best way is to play the situation by ear.


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