# Koiné Greek



## Iakobos_1071 (Feb 5, 2009)

Any one studying the Greek New testament? 

Greek is way different than the Vulgar English. 
Koiné means Common. FYI, it is different than the Modern Greek language. 

Greek has a lot to it.. you know that you can spell the definite article "THE" 27 different ways and they have different meanings?.. 

English has 3 tenses, (Past, Present and Future)
Greek has 5! 

Greek has 
5 Tenses (PRESENT TENSE, AORIST TENSE, PERFECT TENSE, IMPERFECT TENSE, FUTURE TENSE)
5 Cases (Nominative Case, Genitive Case, Dative Case, Accusative Case, Vocative Case)
3 genders (Male Female and neuter)
3 moods (Active, Passive, Middle)

There is even more to it than that when you get in to singular and plural.

I love it, but what is amazing is that God's word is more than what we have in English.


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Feb 5, 2009)

I am personally studying it at home and translating it in a Wednesday night class at my old church. We can have some lively discussions on what the text is saying! Right now we're about to start Acts 3.


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## CharlieJ (Feb 5, 2009)

You mean Greek has:

3 voices - active, middle, passive.

Also, 6 tenses - there is also pluperfect.

It has 4 moods - indicative, imperative, subjunctive, optative

And, I'm not sure that it's correct to say that the spelling of the definite article determines its meaning. The definite article has several different meanings, which can generally be expressed by any CGN combination.


Also, perhaps it differs from text to text, but I was under the impression that English had 12 tenses.


I'm glad you're learning Greek. I tutor it occasionally. It is a wonderful language.


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## Iakobos_1071 (Feb 5, 2009)

CharlieJ said:


> You mean Greek has:
> 
> 3 voices - active, middle, passive.
> 
> ...


Awesome... i am just learning! But I love it so far!


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## CharlieJ (Feb 5, 2009)

Glad to hear it. You need persistence to get through it all. The benefits of Greek (or any other language) are exponential. Usually, in the first 2 years, while you are still studying morphology and syntax, the real benefit to your ability to interpret Scripture is small. Once you get to proficient reading and discourse analysis, you can't put the difference into words.

Self-study can be rough. Kudos to you brave sould. If you run across tough spots or have questions, send me a message. I'd love to work through it with you.


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## Iakobos_1071 (Feb 5, 2009)

Thank you so much! 
Here are my tools. 
Strong's Concordance
J.P. Green's Interlinear Bible
a Parsing Guide
I have a copy of the Byzantine Textform NT
and some other reference material...
If you have a chance see some of Jim Brown's articles.. he teaches Greek and was my inspiration to start studying.


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## VictorBravo (Feb 5, 2009)

Iakobos_1071 said:


> English has 3 tenses, (Past, Present and Future)
> Greek has 5!




I'm sort of bummed that you left out the subjunctive. 

(Sure, most people haven't heard of it, but it is alive, _as it were_.)

And those three tenses are actually nine, if you break them out into Progressive, Perfect/Simple, and Perfect/Progressive. 

Throw in conditional formations, and English could almost be confused with a Romance Language! 

Seriously, blessings on your study. It is very rewarding.


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## Romans922 (Feb 5, 2009)

See --> fred greco


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## BJClark (Feb 6, 2009)

I think it's awesome your studying these languages..

I'd like to learn Latin, so that I would have a reason to use this old Latin Dictionary I have sitting here on my book shelf..published back in 1918 or the works of Horace

Or even German, so that I could read The Elements of the German Language book I have..


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## Whitefield (Feb 6, 2009)

BJClark said:


> I'd like to learn Latin, so that I would have a reason to use this old Latin Dictionary I have sitting here on my book shelf..published back in 1918



Dunno, think it might be out of date? 

I'm putting a lot of time and energy into Latin right now.


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## BJClark (Feb 6, 2009)

Whitefield;



> Dunno, think it might be out of date?



I didn't think Latin changed..unlike the English Language where people tend to change the meaning of words all the time..

Though I'm sure some of the German Language may have changed since this other book was published back in 1888...but maybe not???


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## Rangerus (Feb 6, 2009)

I've never actually spoken to someone who is learning Greek. (and I guess technically, I still haven't). But this thread makes me want to learn Greek. I've never before even dreamed I could.


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## Whitefield (Feb 6, 2009)

BJClark said:


> Whitefield;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



T'was a joke about it being a dead language


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## Augusta (Feb 6, 2009)

I did a fast paced intro course last summer. I have to wait till this summer to pick it back up because I am up to my eyeballs in Latin passive verb paradigms right now.


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## Hawaiian Puritan (Feb 6, 2009)

victorbravo said:


> I'm sort of bummed that you left out the subjunctive.



If it were me, I would have included it. 


Took Koine Greek in a class in senior year of high school. One of the French teachers, Mr. Dozois, also taught both Koine and Hebrew to interested students on Saturdays. He was a devout French Catholic and language fanatic who knew 9 or 10 languages. He used his own materials, plus we had copies of the "Englishman's Greek New Testament," an interlinear KJV with koine beneath. Don't know if that is in print any more. The first thing he had us do after we learned the alphabet and pronunciation was to memorize and recite the Lord's Prayer in Greek.

And then several years ago two of the pastors at my church taught a course in koine. We used Mounce, "Basics of Biblical Greek." The interesting thing about that was that their pronunciation in some ways was quite different than the way I had been taught by Mr. Dozois. One of the big differences bieng the pronunciation of "x," which my pastors pronounced as "k" and Mr. Dozois pronounced like the Hebrew "ch" or "h" in Hannukah / Channukah. (As I understand it, though, no one really knows exactly what spoken koine originally sounded like.)

I also have a beat up "New Testament Greek for Beginners" by Gresham Machen I found in a thrift store.

I have enjoyed my brief stints learning koine, but boy is it hard, much harder than Latin which I also took at one point in my life. But there is something so cool about the Greek alphabet, and it is a beautiful and musical language. Especially when Mr. Dozois read passages of Scripture to us, it sounded just like poetry.

For a good intro to koine, I would recommend the Mounce books (a grammar and workbook, which also has an interactive CD).


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## LawrenceU (Feb 6, 2009)

I'll second Mounce. I wish it had been around when I was in college. We used Machen. Some classes also used Davis. They worked, and I thank God for them. But, Mounce is easier to see the 'scope' of the language.


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## cih1355 (Feb 6, 2009)

At my previous job, I worked at an air force base and I studied Greek with the base's chaplin who was a Lutheran. I would meet with him after work. We went through the book, _Fundamentals of Greek Grammar _by James Voelz. I wanted to study Greek because I wanted to understand God's word better. Moreover, I also teach 5th and 6th grade school and understanding Greek helps me to explain the word of God to them. 

Just out of curiosity, are there any pieces of literature written in Koine Greek besides the Septuagint and the New Testament?


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## Contra Marcion (Feb 6, 2009)

I've done two semesters of Greek at RTS, and we used Mounce there. He's like _Greek for Dummies _- Just what I need! Seriously, Mounce presents Greek grammar and vocabulary in a simple, systematic way that even I can follow.


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## CharlieJ (Feb 6, 2009)

cih1355 said:


> Just out of curiosity, are there any pieces of literature written in Koine Greek besides the Septuagint and the New Testament?



Koine, or Imperial Koine, refers to the common Greek of the period ca. 300 BCE - ca. 300 CE.

The apostolic Fathers, the Didache, and many creeds are written in Koine. The Septuagint is Koine. Also, there are quite a few secular sources.


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## Davidius (Feb 6, 2009)

CharlieJ said:


> cih1355 said:
> 
> 
> > Just out of curiosity, are there any pieces of literature written in Koine Greek besides the Septuagint and the New Testament?
> ...



Although there is a classicizing tendency in some of the Patristic literature.


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## Skyler (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm learning Esperanto...

Seriously, though, I'm looking into studying Greek as well. Coincidentally, I found the Mounce curriculum and put it on my wishlist even before I saw this thread... good to know I had the right thing in mind.


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## FenderPriest (Mar 25, 2009)

As a general idea, if one were to do one chapter of Mounce's book per week, how many hours of total study per week do you think is required?


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## Ex Nihilo (Mar 25, 2009)

FenderPriest said:


> As a general idea, if one were to do one chapter of Mounce's book per week, how many hours of total study per week do you think is required?



Surely this varies widely from person to person -- I can see it ranging from one hour to ten or twelve, depending on how easily you learn languages, whether you've studied a language with cases before, whether you are taking a class with periodic quizzes, and how thoroughly you want to learn Greek. I highly recommend getting the Mounce workbook, too! The workbook will slow you down if you tend (like me) to move on before you've really mastered the material, and even if you don't, it will probably make your study time more efficient.


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## Scott Shahan (Mar 25, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> I'll second Mounce. I wish it had been around when I was in college. We used Machen. Some classes also used Davis. They worked, and I thank God for them. But, Mounce is easier to see the 'scope' of the language.




 I took a year of Greek 5yrs ago and our class used Mounce's grammar/workbook. Mounce, keeps it as simple as possible. I still use that old grammar text book for reference!! Mounce has truly been a blessing to the Church. Check this out it is!!

MP3 Files for gnt (by Anonymous) | Christian Classics Ethereal Library


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## Hamalas (Mar 25, 2009)

I speak pig-latin.


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## Jen (Mar 25, 2009)

I never, ever, ever thought I'd say this, but... I like Hebrew better. 

We're into participles now (in Greek, I mean). At the break last night, I leaned over to my classmate who's also been in Hebrew with me since last Fall and said, "Aren't you glad that Hebrew participles aren't like Greek participles?" We're nearly done with Jonah and you can probably count on one hand the number of participles we've run into. (Though all those waw consecutives are boring from a first-year standpoint -- it's just a series of "And Jonah said..." followed by "and the sailors [did x]..." followed by "And [x]...". Repeat ad nauseaum.) At church we're going through the Psalms so I don't bother with using my Hebrew Bible (it being poetry and all), but sometimes when we're reading through the text and there are words I know the Hebrew for, I can kinda see what the Hebrew must be like.

I took Latin before I took Greek and it's interesting to see all the similarities in the languages -- and the differences. Greek is definitely harder (and weirder!). The most complicated Latin prose I read was a bit of Cicero's Somnium Scipionis, but, all in all, you can definitely see the different minds at work in Rome and Greece in the way the languages work.


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## Ex Nihilo (Mar 25, 2009)

Jen said:


> I never, ever, ever thought I'd say this, but... I like Hebrew better.
> 
> We're into participles now (in Greek, I mean). At the break last night, I leaned over to my classmate who's also been in Hebrew with me since last Fall and said, "Aren't you glad that Hebrew participles aren't like Greek participles?" We're nearly done with Jonah and you can probably count on one hand the number of participles we've run into. (Though all those waw consecutives are boring from a first-year standpoint -- it's just a series of "And Jonah said..." followed by "and the sailors [did x]..." followed by "And [x]...". Repeat ad nauseaum.) At church we're going through the Psalms so I don't bother with using my Hebrew Bible (it being poetry and all), but sometimes when we're reading through the text and there are words I know the Hebrew for, I can kinda see what the Hebrew must be like.
> 
> I took Latin before I took Greek and it's interesting to see all the similarities in the languages -- and the differences. Greek is definitely harder (and weirder!). The most complicated Latin prose I read was a bit of Cicero's Somnium Scipionis, but, all in all, you can definitely see the different minds at work in Rome and Greece in the way the languages work.



Jen, this makes me want to study Hebrew! (And to actually learn Greek, too.)


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## cwjudyjr (Mar 25, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> I'll second Mounce. I wish it had been around when I was in college. We used Machen. Some classes also used Davis. They worked, and I thank God for them. But, Mounce is easier to see the 'scope' of the language.



We just started Mounce in one of our Sunday School classes.

A blessing after just two weeks! Can't wait to learn more!

Conrad


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## ZackF (Mar 25, 2009)

I am resuming Greeks studies after a 10+ year lay-off. My studies were in Attic and Homeric Greek and so I am not going totally from scratch. Another important thing is knowing parts of speech. If you don't have a basic grasp of sentence structure in your first language it makes it tough.


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## cwjudyjr (Mar 25, 2009)

Hamalas said:


> I speak pig-latin.



Is that kosher?!?!


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 26, 2009)

I'm glad to hear of your current infatuation with Koine Greek. May it turn into a lifelong love of serious academic study of God's Word.


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## Tim (Mar 26, 2009)

Scott Shahan said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > I'll second Mounce. I wish it had been around when I was in college. We used Machen. Some classes also used Davis. They worked, and I thank God for them. But, Mounce is easier to see the 'scope' of the language.
> ...



I understand that this is one of the two free Greek audio recordings on the internet. It read by a woman named Marilyn Phemister. Unfortunately, the pronunciation is not that fluid in my opinion, as she has a heavy American accent as she reads the Greek. 

The other free audio is Greek/Latin New Testament Audio Readings. This has links to Greek, Latin, and Hebrew. The Greek here is read by a man in a wonderfully fluid manner and no apparent accent. He uses a modern Greek pronunciation convention. 

Both audio files are from the Westcott-Hort text.


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## Scott Shahan (Mar 26, 2009)

Tim said:


> Scott Shahan said:
> 
> 
> > LawrenceU said:
> ...




Wow! Thanks Tim! I did not know about this.....very cool... also I do know that there is a Greek Class on itunesU from Dallas Theological Seminary, where you can download all the lectures and then watch them. That class also uses the Mounce Grammar. I have watched these videos several times over and they are most excellent!


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## Tim (Mar 26, 2009)

And I did not know about DTS Greek classes on iTunesU! Thanks for this!


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## lukeh021471 (Mar 26, 2009)

The thing about Greek and Hebrew is to continually use it, possibly daily if you have the time. I try to read and translate in my nightly devotions


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