# Differences between NPP and FV?



## jwright82 (Mar 10, 2010)

My question is simple. I almost always see both these movments being criticisezed together in any report or whatever, but are they really the same? I mean are there real and substantial differences between these two movments? Or are their differences mearly on the less important things?


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 10, 2010)

I have another question to add because these things confuse me as well. Are both of these things essentially saying that man has to work for his salvation in some sense?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 10, 2010)

The NPP has more to do with Interpreting Paul's thought and justification. Justification has to do with becoming a Covenant Member and tearing down the walls of ceremonial law. It also redefines justification and the righteousness of God. 

The FV is more an attempt to find ecclesiastical application concerning covenant membership and the application of the means of sacrament in application to both the regenerate and unregenerate. Not all FV people hold to the NPP but a lot have concerning covenant continuity. Most are monocovenantal instead of holding to the WCF. 

That is a very short glimpse. There are many in the FV camp that hold to strands of thought of the NPP. Not all do.

Here are two links where Pastor Keister gives a few summaries.

NPP

Well actually this link has a lot including intro and analysis.

FV


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## itsreed (Mar 11, 2010)

Both subjects make my head hurt.

Key similarities:

> Both deal with how to tell who is "in" covenant, that is, who can be said to be a member of the Church.
> Both deal with objective, i.e., visible signs of this, namely baptism.

Key differences:

> NT is not so interested in discussing the traditional internal issues, e.g., justification. He believes this is NOT what the NT is talking about, but rather the objective question of who can be seen to be IN.
> The FV maintains the internal, but posits a secondary real internal salvation that is temporary.

They both end up looking to works more than otherwise, but it appears to me that this is somewhat incidental for NT, and expressly necessary for the FV. In this sense the FV actually follows Shepherdism more that NT Wright, and the insistance of Shepherd that good works are in some manner constituent in justification.

There are possibly more, but I think it is fair to say that any similarities are coincidence at this point. NT and the FV are really sking different questions. The main FV proponents, after some initial "checking out" NT, seem to have lost interest in him. Some more or less reject him.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Mar 11, 2010)

"While there is, to be sure, some overlap between the concerns of NPP and the concerns of FV, it is not accurate to describe them as a single movement. They properly represent different theological traditions and different constituencies, and have separate aims and objectives." (Guy P. Waters, _Federal Vision_, p. 3) 

The article on FV at Theopedia may be helpful -- the background section, especially:
http://www.theopedia.com/Federal_Vision


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 11, 2010)

If I'm ever exposed to either heresy I hope to be able to point it out and confront it instead of being deceived by it.


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## uberkermit (Mar 11, 2010)

DD2009 said:


> If I'm ever exposed to either heresy I hope to be able to point it out and confront it instead of being deceived by it.


 
Indeed. Earlier today I was contemplating the possibility of Christians being deceived, in the manner of the Galatians:

"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified." Galatians 3:1

There exists a very real possibility of Christians being _bewitched_, just as they were in Paul's time. As I read this (above) passage today, I could not help but being a little bit alarmed by my own confidence in myself and my ability to spot errors. Personally, I see a real necessity of keeping a close walk with the Lord, relying on him to protect me from error.


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