# Unaccredited Seminary Degrees



## TheocraticMonarchist

I know, the title of this thread probably doesn’t sound too exciting, but it has been a topic of consideration of mine for the past week or so. While carefully weighing my responsibility to be a good steward of my finances, especially being married, along with my responsibility to pursue a solid biblical education in preparation for ministry, I realized that a degree from a non-regionally accredited ministry training school might be a good option. For example, for the tuition cost of a SBTS discounted M.Div degree I could more than pay the tuition costs for the M.Div, Th.M, and D.min degrees from the below listed institutions. 

I primarily feel called to the pastorate. The low cost of unaccredited ministry training schools is appealing, especially since I desire to be well educated and a good steward of the finances that God has given me. With all this being said, what are your opinions on the below listed schools? Do they provide a solid biblical education? What is the general attitude of the church towards unaccredited ministry degrees? What hurdles would I face in ministry with an unaccredited degree that I would not face with a regionally accredited ministry degree?

My primary concern is to serve Christ, his church, and my family well. 

Reformed International Theological Seminary:

HOME | Reformation International Schools 

Reformed Baptist Seminary:

Reformed Baptist Seminary 

Whitefield Theological Seminary:

Whitefield Theological Seminary - Home


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## seajayrice

Whitefield is unaccredited?


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## TheocraticMonarchist

seajayrice said:


> Whitefield is unaccredited?


 
It's not regionally accredited by an agency associated with the U.S. government, so basically no.


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## seajayrice

I guess accreditation is in the eye of the beholder. If you run in reformed circles, how can you go wrong with Whitefield?


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## Covenant Joel

It depends on several things: 

(1) What do you want to do with the degree? You mention that you want to pastor. In the SBC, I assume? Have you talked to SBC pastors/others who can give you an idea as to whether you could be ordained as a pastor with a degree from those institutions? You don't want to get into a situation where you degree won't get you where you need to go. 

(2) All 3 of the schools, if I am not mistaken, are distance programs. I have no problem with distance programs per se (I'm in the RTS-Virtual MAR program). In fact, I love my program, and I think it was the best choice for me (it is accredited too). But I don't think distance ed is for everyone. You have to have the necessary motivation, and you have to figure out how you will work it (a class a time while working full-time, more?). 

(3) Is the academic quality of the schools good? In other words, will you receive adequate training for the pastorate? I'm not saying anything about any of the three schools you have listed (there are others, check out this list I compiled a while back). I've never taken classes with any of them. But I would check to make sure of that first. I think my online RTS classes have been as high of quality as the on-campus classes. But it's something to check on.

(4) Given that the programs are distance, will you have specific measures in place to make sure that you get practical, hands-on experience? Will you have a mentor that you can talk through the material with? Intellectual education is necessary but insufficient. It's easy for all seminary students to have a disconnect between the intellectual and the practical, but it can be easier for distance students if they appropriate steps aren't put in place to stop it.


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## N. Eshelman

I do not have experience with the schools mentioned in the OP, but I did go to a seminary while it was in the process of being accredited. I had to think long and hard before I made my decision and I VERY glad that I went to PRTS. 

Just be careful- know that the Lord Jesus can supply money out of fishes bellies if he wants you to study somewhere. Don't settle for something that will not prepare you well for pastoral ministry all to save a buck. I was always surprised where funds came in from while I was attending seminary (with a young family). If he is calling you, he will supply for the preparation of that calling as well. 

With that said, 

Dr. Clark had some good thoughts on this a while back. I am not saying that I 100% agree with his assessments, but it is worth considering and worth mediating on. 



> Students considering an unaccredited school should think carefully about whether there is a legitimate reason for a school not being accredited or whether a school lacks a real accreditation (i.e. one recognized by the Department of Education) because it is simply a poor school and thus, likely, a waste of money. There are more than a few home-made seminaries, which are unable to provide the necessary education, which lack a qualified faculty, which lack the necessary library (and other) resources, that are all too ready to take your money and give you a degree. Would you attend medical school in someone’s basement? Would you trust your health to a physician trained at such a school? Why we should entrust the care of our congregations to pastors trained at home-made seminary? Consistories/sessions, classes/presbyteries and other bodies should consider why should we are sometimes willing to accept lower standards in our seminaries than we would for medical schools.



Education True and False (Part 3) « Heidelblog


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## jogri17

My own personal conviction is that unaccredited is perfectly acceptable, but a 100% seminary degree that is done online is worthless to the Church in most circumstances. I firmly believe in the importance of face to face time. And I think your family, especially your wife, will benefit from the time spent in the seminary-church community. I would recommended Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary, and Greenville Presbyterian Seminary which are both unaccredited and at the same time their degree has been recognized by several great broader evangelical institutions that are accredited and that would keep open the doors in the future if you want an higher degree. Also depending on which denomination you belong to, it may be wise to contact a person involved in your denomination to see their requirements.


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## KMK

If your church is asking you to get some kind of degree, no matter what, so you can be their pastor, then fine. But if you go shopping for pastor jobs with no experience and an unaccredited degree you won't get very far. The only way to get your foot in the door with a search committee is to either have experience or an accredited degree.


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## Kevin

seajayrice said:


> I guess accreditation is in the eye of the beholder. If you run in reformed circles, how can you go wrong with Whitefield?


 
Seriously?


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## jogri17

Kevin said:


> seajayrice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess accreditation is in the eye of the beholder. If you run in reformed circles, how can you go wrong with Whitefield?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?
Click to expand...

 It's an American attitude.


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## Phil D.

jogri17 said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seajayrice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess accreditation is in the eye of the beholder. If you run in reformed circles, how can you go wrong with Whitefield?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an American attitude.
Click to expand...

 

This in turn appears to merely be a prejudiced Canadian stereotype of a perceived American attitude (I'm entitled to say this because my brother and sister in law are dual citizens)


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## TheocraticMonarchist

Thanks for the input--I will consider these things!





nleshelman said:


> I do not have experience with the schools mentioned in the OP, but I did go to a seminary while it was in the process of being accredited. I had to think long and hard before I made my decision and I VERY glad that I went to PRTS.
> 
> Just be careful- know that the Lord Jesus can supply money out of fishes bellies if he wants you to study somewhere. Don't settle for something that will not prepare you well for pastoral ministry all to save a buck. I was always surprised where funds came in from while I was attending seminary (with a young family). If he is calling you, he will supply for the preparation of that calling as well.
> 
> With that said,
> 
> Dr. Clark had some good thoughts on this a while back. I am not saying that I 100% agree with his assessments, but it is worth considering and worth mediating on.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Students considering an unaccredited school should think carefully about whether there is a legitimate reason for a school not being accredited or whether a school lacks a real accreditation (i.e. one recognized by the Department of Education) because it is simply a poor school and thus, likely, a waste of money. There are more than a few home-made seminaries, which are unable to provide the necessary education, which lack a qualified faculty, which lack the necessary library (and other) resources, that are all too ready to take your money and give you a degree. Would you attend medical school in someone’s basement? Would you trust your health to a physician trained at such a school? Why we should entrust the care of our congregations to pastors trained at home-made seminary? Consistories/sessions, classes/presbyteries and other bodies should consider why should we are sometimes willing to accept lower standards in our seminaries than we would for medical schools.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Education True and False (Part 3) « Heidelblog
Click to expand...



---------- Post added at 11:11 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:07 AM ----------




jogri17 said:


> a 100% seminary degree that is done online is worthless to the Church in most circumstances. I firmly believe in the importance of face to face time.



Could you elaborate?

---------- Post added at 11:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:11 AM ----------




KMK said:


> If your church is asking you to get some kind of degree, no matter what, so you can be their pastor, then fine. But if you go shopping for pastor jobs with no experience and an unaccredited degree you won't get very far. The only way to get your foot in the door with a search committee is to either have experience or an accredited degree.


 
Is it even biblical for a man with no ministerial experience to go pulpit shopping? Shouldn't the local church train it's seminary grads to be ministers before sending them off?

---------- Post added at 11:32 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:22 AM ----------

Joel,

Thanks for the input and the link. All are good points to consider. 




Covenant Joel said:


> It depends on several things:
> 
> (1) What do you want to do with the degree? You mention that you want to pastor. In the SBC, I assume? Have you talked to SBC pastors/others who can give you an idea as to whether you could be ordained as a pastor with a degree from those institutions? You don't want to get into a situation where you degree won't get you where you need to go.
> 
> (2) All 3 of the schools, if I am not mistaken, are distance programs. I have no problem with distance programs per se (I'm in the RTS-Virtual MAR program). In fact, I love my program, and I think it was the best choice for me (it is accredited too). But I don't think distance ed is for everyone. You have to have the necessary motivation, and you have to figure out how you will work it (a class a time while working full-time, more?).
> 
> (3) Is the academic quality of the schools good? In other words, will you receive adequate training for the pastorate? I'm not saying anything about any of the three schools you have listed (there are others, check out this list I compiled a while back). I've never taken classes with any of them. But I would check to make sure of that first. I think my online RTS classes have been as high of quality as the on-campus classes. But it's something to check on.
> 
> (4) Given that the programs are distance, will you have specific measures in place to make sure that you get practical, hands-on experience? Will you have a mentor that you can talk through the material with? Intellectual education is necessary but insufficient. It's easy for all seminary students to have a disconnect between the intellectual and the practical, but it can be easier for distance students if they appropriate steps aren't put in place to stop it.


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## jogri17

Phil D. said:


> jogri17 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> seajayrice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess accreditation is in the eye of the beholder. If you run in reformed circles, how can you go wrong with Whitefield?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> It's an American attitude.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This in turn appears to merely be a prejudiced Canadian stereotype of a perceived American attitude (I'm entitled to say this because my brother and sister in law are dual citizens)
Click to expand...


As an American who lives in Canada, I am well aware it is a generalization, but I do think Canadian Christians are a bit more snobby on the question of education. Legally you cannot ''get accreditation'' from the Government (it is federal), but if you want to start up a new program or seminary you have to affiliate with an official university or seminary that has been recognized for a long time. Also there is a general snobbery towards colleges as opposed to Universities. Redeemer is accredited but because it is a college as opposed to an university, a lot of graduates have trouble getting good jobs because it is not ''an university''.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

Jonathan,

If you feel the call start the discussion with your Pastor and get yourself under the care of the church, which will then guide you in such decisions.

AMR


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## seajayrice

Kevin said:


> seajayrice said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess accreditation is in the eye of the beholder. If you run in reformed circles, how can you go wrong with Whitefield?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously?
Click to expand...

 
Seriously. Is there something wrong with Whitefield????


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## alb1

Johnathan

There is no clear cut formula for what SBC churches require of their pastors. If you take a look at sbc.net/jobs you'll find a variety of requirements from M.Div from a SBC seminary only, to requiring a masters or bachelors in theological studies, all the way to simply wanting "a man called of God".

That being the case there are simply some SBC churches that having "reformed" anywhere on your resume. educational background or not, will get it trashed. For those acceptable of "reformed" applicants, more than likely their educational requirements will mirror the educational level of the congregation. 

Discuss with your pastor your calling and your ministry aspirations if you haven't already. Since there in no seminary educational requirement for Baptist pastoral ordination, take the advice of your pastor and other Godly people who know you, and seek God's peace in your spirit in choosing the right path for you to follow. 

From a purely practical perspective, if unacredited, reformed, distance learning is your confirmed heart's desire, then RBS seems to make sense.
You're Baptist, the seminary is Baptist. You can start working on the Masters of Theology / Practical Theology track under the mentorship of your pastor and have practical ministry experience in your church, and then keep going in the M.Div track if God leads you in that path.


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## R. Scott Clark

This is a topic close to my heart. As a sem prof (and former administrator; I was academic dean at WSC for 3.5 years) I've talked to a number of students who've attended unaccredited schools. We've had a number of students transfer to us from unaccredited seminaries, who did what you're proposing. Let's just say that they realized that they made a mistake.

Here are some posts on this and related topics.

And Now for the Rest of the Story « Heidelblog

Education True and False (Part 1) « Heidelblog

Education True and False (Part 2) « Heidelblog

Education True and False (Part 3) « Heidelblog

Who Should Go to Seminary? (1) « Heidelblog

Who Should Go to Seminary? (2) « Heidelblog

Training Pastors: Face to Face is Still Best « Heidelblog

What is a Seminary? « Heidelblog

How Not to Train Pastors (1) « Heidelblog

How Not to Train Pastors (2) « Heidelblog


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## jogri17

R. Scott Clark said:


> This is a topic close to my heart. As a sem prof (and former administrator; I was academic dean at WSC for 3.5 years) I've talked to a number of students who've attended unaccredited schools. We've had a number of students transfer to us from unaccredited seminaries, who did what you're proposing. Let's just say that they realized that they made a mistake.
> 
> Here are some posts on this and related topics.
> 
> And Now for the Rest of the Story « Heidelblog
> 
> Education True and False (Part 1) « Heidelblog
> 
> Education True and False (Part 2) « Heidelblog
> 
> Education True and False (Part 3) « Heidelblog
> 
> Who Should Go to Seminary? (1) « Heidelblog
> 
> Who Should Go to Seminary? (2) « Heidelblog
> 
> Training Pastors: Face to Face is Still Best « Heidelblog
> 
> What is a Seminary? « Heidelblog
> 
> How Not to Train Pastors (1) « Heidelblog
> 
> How Not to Train Pastors (2) « Heidelblog



Can you explain why they regretted it? Is it because they were disappointed with the quality of education or because Westminster Seminary would not accept the credits? Not an intentionally hostile question, but from what I heard PRTS and Greenville is a great seminary and they are not accredited.


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## R. Scott Clark

JPG,

I'm summarizing several different cases and in each instance the circumstances were a little different. I reflect on this at greater length in several of the posts linked above. I would rather have you read those than try to re-write them here. 

The adage _caveat emptor_ is most appropriate. I can also tell a story. I once bought a car that seemed nice enough on the exterior and seemed to run well and seemed to be a fair price. After I had driven it, however, I learned more about it and about cars. I realized that I had not got the deal that I imagined at first. I discovered that there was a reason why I was able to get that car at that price.

The same is true of schools. Prospective students too often make decisions that will affect the rest of their lives, sometimes negatively, because they use the wrong criteria for making those decisions. I try to address these issues in detail in several of the posts listed above.


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## jogri17

R. Scott Clark said:


> JPG,
> 
> I'm summarizing several different cases and in each instance the circumstances were a little different. I reflect on this at greater length in several of the posts linked above. I would rather have you read those than try to re-write them here.
> 
> The adage _caveat emptor_ is most appropriate. I can also tell a story. I once bought a car that seemed nice enough on the exterior and seemed to run well and seemed to be a fair price. After I had driven it, however, I learned more about it and about cars. I realized that I had not got the deal that I imagined at first. I discovered that there was a reason why I was able to get that car at that price.
> 
> The same is true of schools. Prospective students too often make decisions that will affect the rest of their lives, sometimes negatively, because they use the wrong criteria for making those decisions. I try to address these issues in detail in several of the posts listed above.


 
Fair enough mon ami!


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## TomVols

I would not want all my education to be from UA schools. Get one degree from a traditional setting. Then do any other work you wish in a non-traditional/UA format. Simply my opinion.


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## Ivan

TomVols said:


> I would not want all my education to be from UA schools. Get one degree from a traditional setting. Then do any other work you wish in a non-traditional/UA format. Simply my opinion.



I agree. I have three degrees from accredited institutions, two public and one private. I have one degree from an unaccredited institution. I think it's actually a good thing to attend a public university, it gives you a much broader perspective. My opinion as well.


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