# Seminary advice for those who want to stay in academia?



## habeoChristum (Apr 11, 2008)

I graduated recently from college and am on staff with a campus ministry. My interest is in studying the relationships of Christianity, church and culture. I want to go to a seminary first (probably for an M. Div) and then go on for a Ph.D. at a top tier secular graduate school or seminary (i.e. Princeton, Yale, etc). So my question is, where should I go to seminary now? I'm looking for:

1. Generally faithful to God's word and the reformed tradition, though I don't mind some challenging beliefs.
2. Good in training for academia and research (most seminaries seem to be completely focused on training pastors and missionaries).
3. A good enough reputation that I could go to on a to top tier graduate school.

Suggestions?


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## servantofmosthigh (Apr 11, 2008)

I would recommend Gordon-Conwell for your situation, and ask for David Wells to be your advisor/mentor. He's written his quadrilogy on the relationship of contemporary evangelicalism, ecclesiology & culture.


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## Davidius (Apr 11, 2008)

servantofmosthigh said:


> I would recommend Gordon-Conwell for your situation, and ask for David Wells to be your advisor/mentor. He's written his quadrilogy on the relationship of contemporary evangelicalism, ecclesiology & culture.



This is a good suggestion. Westminster California has also produced some academics.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 11, 2008)

Too bad William Willimon is not still at Duke. I would not recommend any Divinity School.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 11, 2008)

I echo the commendations of Gordon-Conwell and Westminster California. Fuller is much less conservative but enjoys a good rep for getting their grads into top tier schools (cf. grads include Piper, Riddlebarger, Volf as well as Rob Bell and Rick Warren!). Given the proximity to east coast schools, GC may be your best bet.


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## fredtgreco (Apr 11, 2008)

I would not go to seminary for an MDiv, but rather go to graduate school for an M.A. M.Div's are for pastoral work; M.A.'s are for PhD work.

I say this as someone who was in a PhD program in a top 10 school (U. of Chicago) in my field (Classics), active in the church (as an RE) and a seminary graduate (RTS Jackson).


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## DMcFadden (Apr 11, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> I would not go to seminary for an MDiv, but rather go to graduate school for an M.A. M.Div's are for pastoral work; M.A.'s are for PhD work.
> 
> I say this as someone who was in a PhD program in a top 10 school (U. of Chicago) in my field (Classics), active in the church (as an RE) and a seminary graduate (RTS Jackson).



Fred, it depends on what school you want to go to for your PhD. When a friend was looking at PhD programs, seminary based PhD's seemed to want a M.Div. If you are looking at a secular university (e.g., UCLA, University of Chicago, etc.), the M.A. makes more sense. It also depends on what your endgame might be. If you want to teach at a seminary, they tend to prefer ordained ministers with both a M.Div. and Ph.D. Universities would tend to expect the M.A./Ph.D. sequence.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 11, 2008)

habeoChristum said:


> I graduated recently from college and am on staff with a campus ministry. My interest is in studying the relationships of Christianity, church and culture. I want to go to a seminary first (probably for an M. Div) and then go on for a Ph.D. at a top tier secular graduate school or seminary (i.e. Princeton, Yale, etc). So my question is, where should I go to seminary now? I'm looking for:
> 
> 1. Generally faithful to God's word and the reformed tradition, though I don't mind some challenging beliefs.
> 2. Good in training for academia and research (most seminaries seem to be completely focused on training pastors and missionaries).
> ...



Actually Pittsburgh Theological Seminary has had some students recently who have gone on to some Top-Flight English schools like the University of Durham and Edinburgh...


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## Zenas (Apr 11, 2008)

*Question: *If M.Div's are for pastors, what could one get who wants to go to seminary, but doesn't ever want to be a pastor?

I will, by God's providence, have a J.D. in 2 years. At some point, if I'm ever in the financial situation to do so, I'd like to go to seminary for my own personal edification. What degrees are available for those whose endeavors are sheerly academic and don't want an M.A. from a secular graduate school?


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## Davidius (Apr 11, 2008)

Zenas said:


> *Question: *If M.Div's are for pastors, what could one get who wants to go to seminary, but doesn't ever want to be a pastor?
> 
> I will, by God's providence, have a J.D. in 2 years. At some point, if I'm ever in the financial situation to do so, I'd like to go to seminary for my own personal edification. What degrees are available for those whose endeavors are sheerly academic and don't want an M.A. from a secular graduate school?



I asked a similar question some time ago. The thread didn't go very far but Dr. Clark provided some helpful advice. Here it is if you'd like to check it out: link


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## cih1355 (Apr 11, 2008)

Zenas said:


> *Question: *If M.Div's are for pastors, what could one get who wants to go to seminary, but doesn't ever want to be a pastor?
> 
> I will, by God's providence, have a J.D. in 2 years. At some point, if I'm ever in the financial situation to do so, I'd like to go to seminary for my own personal edification. What degrees are available for those whose endeavors are sheerly academic and don't want an M.A. from a secular graduate school?



You could get an M.A. at a Christian university or a seminary.


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## R. Scott Clark (Apr 12, 2008)

I respect Fred's opinion but don't agree with it entirely. The MDiv is intended to send men into pastoral ministry but some men take a more indirect route. Some go on to do more grad work before entering the pastorate. We are blessed to have two seminary-trained men in our congregation and they have been a genuine blessing. Sometimes men take the MDiv and discover that they should not be in pastoral ministry. 

For what it's worth, even though WSC majors in training pastors (abotu 70% of our students) the sem has a strong track record in sending students to top flight PhD programs. One of our current students was just accepted at Oxford (that makes about 5-6 in recent years). We've about 46 grads with PhDs. We have several more in PhD programs right now. 

Students who want to earn a non-ministerial degree should take an MA. We offer three: MA (Historical Theology), MA (Biblical Studies), and MA (Theological Studies). 

For more information contact Christa Haeck at 

Westminster Seminary California admissions

For more on the MDiv program:

Westminster Seminary California academics

More more information on the MA (HT) program:

Westminster Seminary California clark

Westminster Seminary California academics


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## habeoChristum (Apr 12, 2008)

Thanks for all the responses! After reading everything, I think I could explain my position a little better:

I like the possibility of being a professor at a secular university in a religious studies or sociology department. Having known the religious studies department where I did my undergraduate, there was not a single professor (out of about 20) that I think would have called themselves an evangelical Christian. Yet many of them are writing books and publishing papers and teaching students about what "Christianity" is.

The reason I would like to go to a seminary first is to get better foundation before pursuing the Ph.D. at a school with a good reputation in academia. But if going to a conservative seminary would even keep me from getting into those schools, then I'm not sure I would go. If an M.A. is better to get for this than an M.Div. that's fine. Do some students get two M.A.'s? (e.g. theology and philosophy of religion)


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