# Calvary Chapel rejects 2 points of Calvinism



## ReformedWretch (May 7, 2004)

[quote:8631e5b913]In addition, we reject &quot;5-point Calvinism&quot;. For a deeper understanding of what Calvinism is, see my book Calvinism versus Arminianism, but for our purposes here, suffice it to say that Calvary Chapel rejects two of the five points of five point Calvinism. First, Calvinism teaches that Jesus' atonement on the Cross was limited, that is, that He died only for a chosen group, His &quot;elect&quot;, not for the sins of the entire world. At Calvary Chapel, we believe that Jesus died on the Cross for all the sins of all people, and that anyone who wants to can accept Him as Lord and savior and be born again. Strict five point Calvinists believe that only the elect can be saved and that God has elected others to spend eternity in hell.

Secondly, we reject the Calvinistic teaching called &quot;irresistible grace&quot;, which is the belief that man cannot, even if he wants to, resist the wooing and calling of God to salvation. Instead, at Calvary Chapel we believe that man has a free will and he can resist the call of God if he chooses to do so. Therefore, those who hold to five point Calvinism are outside of the borders of what defines Calvary Chapel. [/quote:8631e5b913]

Well, our church is NOT a Calvary Chapel at this moment, but for some time now they have been working on becoming one. It looks like I am going to have to take this information to our pastor now. 

I am not real comfortable with us persuing this goal now that I know this.


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## Scott Bushey (May 7, 2004)

Adam,
I don't know how long you have been connected w/ the C.C. movement, but at one time, I was very involved in ministry at The Ft. Lauderdale branch. The quote you present is from Lary Taylor's booklet. At present Larry Taylor had left C.C. about 3 or 4 years ago for different reasons than what you pose. If you need any information, I can help.


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## ReformedWretch (May 7, 2004)

So does this still reflect CC's stance or no?


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## Ianterrell (May 7, 2004)

I know a church in Scranton, PA that went independant from Calvery Chapel last year due to the increased adherance of the leadership to Reformed doctrine. The pastor's a great guy, had fun debating with him. Very friendly congregation. 

I don't know how it could help but maybe your pastor could talk to the elders at the Grace Fellowship Church in Scranton about why they left the denom? Email me if you're interested.


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## tcalbrecht (May 7, 2004)

[quote:f0d6757da8][i:f0d6757da8]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:f0d6757da8]
Well, our church is NOT a Calvary Chapel at this moment, but for some time now they have been working on becoming one. It looks like I am going to have to take this information to our pastor now. 

I am not real comfortable with us persuing this goal now that I know this. [/quote:f0d6757da8]


[quote:f0d6757da8]
It is not our purpose to take sides on these issues or to divide the body of Jesus Christ over human interpretations of these Biblical truths concerning our salvation. We simply desire to state how we in the Calvary Chapel fellowships understand the Bible's teaching regarding these matters. (From Chuck Smith's booklet, [i:f0d6757da8]CALVINISM, ARMINIANISM &amp; THE WORD OF GOD [/i:f0d6757da8]
[/quote:f0d6757da8]

What is interesting about these &quot;no creed but Christ&quot; type churches is the amount of credence (pardon the pun) they give to their leaders' creeds while rejecting the historical creeds of the church.

Chuck Smith says he doesn't wish to take sides but all the CC churches seem to have statements on their web site about how they reject the heart of Calvinism. How does that mesh with not wishing to take sides?

They also make insignificant, not to mention biblically questionable, things like the pre-trib rapture a key part of the non-creedal creeds.


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## tcalbrecht (May 7, 2004)

[quote:100e782b3b][i:100e782b3b]Originally posted by Ianterrell[/i:100e782b3b]
I know a church in Scranton, PA that went independant from Calvery Chapel last year due to the increased adherance of the leadership to Reformed doctrine. The pastor's a great guy, had fun debating with him. Very friendly congregation. 

I don't know how it could help but maybe your pastor could talk to the elders at the Grace Fellowship Church in Scranton about why they left the denom? Email me if you're interested. [/quote:100e782b3b]

Is that church now called Reformed Baptist Church and is it located in Dunmore? I grew up near Scranton and we still have family and friends back there. We're always looking for a good, reformed church.


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## Scott Bushey (May 7, 2004)

Adam,
Their position has NOT changed. L. Taylors issue had to do with the C.C. Bible collehge and who should be ble to attend.

Over lunch today, Matt and I referred to Chuck Smith as the 'pope' of C.C. becuae if any of the hundreds of C.C. has any change of heart on any of the central tenents of C.C. doctrine they would have to give up their affilliation.

[Edited on 5-7-2004 by Scott Bushey]


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## wsw201 (May 7, 2004)

I wonder how they justify the &quot;T&quot;, &quot;U&quot;, and &quot;P&quot; without the &quot;L&quot; and &quot;I&quot; ? You can't have one without the others.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (May 7, 2004)

Calvary Chapel Denies all 5 points, and repudiates reformed doctrine. Chuck Smith - their pope - is a full fledged Arminian.


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## BrianLanier (May 7, 2004)

All this talk about Calvary Chapel make me think of a broadcast I came across on their website recently. It is part of their &quot;To Every Man an Answer&quot; show. Just listen: 

http://www.calvarymedia.com/various/tema/19990104.ra.ram

(Just fast forward though some of the stuff)


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## ReformedWretch (May 8, 2004)

Well THIS might explain something!

http://procinwarn.com/ccclergy.htm

Our Church is currently working on becoming a CC. After this discussion I just e-mailed my pastor and told him maybe we shouldn't bother!

Pray that God speaks to our pastor in this regard! Our body is currently called &quot;Lebanon Christian Fellowship&quot; and maybe that is what we should remain!

edited to add this;

BTW, our church is being told having two pastors is a reason we have not been approved to become a CC. 

I do not believe it is unbiblical to have two pastors is it? Maybe it is un-Chuck Smith but certainly not unbiblical. Our two pastors are not even paid! 

[Edited on 5/8/2004 by houseparent]


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## C. Matthew McMahon (May 8, 2004)

Adam,

Have your pastor consider that they should adopt a denomination that follows an orthodox creed. That will place them under the auspice of &quot;a tried faith.&quot; They should not desire to become an &quot;island to themselves.&quot; Rather, he should want to walk int he footsteps of the Church before them. The Confessions and Catechisms of the church provide a very healthy system of belief that most churches today despise.


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## BrianLanier (May 8, 2004)

They [i:ecf0f13c45]may[/i:ecf0f13c45] be right on their assesment of C.C., but after looking around on that website for a while to see the quality of their material, I have to say that I would stay away, far far away. Just giving you a precaution. I'm sure you observed that as well.


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## BrianLanier (May 8, 2004)

[quote:4fcd88edc7][i:4fcd88edc7]Originally posted by webmaster[/i:4fcd88edc7]
Adam,

Have your pastor consider that they should adopt a denomination that follows an orthodox creed. That will place them under the auspice of &quot;a tried faith.&quot; They should not desire to become an &quot;island to themselves.&quot; Rather, he should want to walk int he footsteps of the Church before them. The Confessions and Catechisms of the church provide a very healthy system of belief that most churches today despise. [/quote:4fcd88edc7]


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## ReformedWretch (May 8, 2004)

[quote:8365c9a818][i:8365c9a818]Originally posted by BrianLanier[/i:8365c9a818]
They [i:8365c9a818]may[/i:8365c9a818] be right on their assesment of C.C., but after looking around on that website for a while to see the quality of their material, I have to say that I would stay away, far far away. Just giving you a precaution. I'm sure you observed that as well. [/quote:8365c9a818]

Yes I did!

I was just talking about the CC opinion.


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## Ianterrell (May 8, 2004)

Tom,

No, the church I was describing is called Grace Fellowship Church there is a Reformed Baptist church nearby that I hear they are considering merging with.

The preaching pastor there is really quite good.


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## Ianterrell (May 8, 2004)

Adam there is actually a precedent in scripture to have multiple elders. Plurality of elders isn't commanded explicitly, but plurality is seen I think rather clearly in the apostles writings.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 2, 2004)

I hate to revive a dead thread, but what is &quot;Calvary Chapel&quot; and who is Chuck Smith?

A brief history and review of their doctrines would help,

Thanks


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 2, 2004)

http://www.calvarychapel.com/index-nojava.htm


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## RamistThomist (Jul 2, 2004)

Sorry

I went to the &quot;about Calvary&quot; page and it wouldn't open. In a nutshell could anybody tell me what it is about?


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jul 3, 2004)

Calvary is a mix between the Pentecostal movement and Arminianism. Chuck Smith is a modern day &quot;Finney-ite&quot;. He started the &quot;movement.&quot;


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 3, 2004)

Chuck began the movement out in California in the mid 60's, better known as &quot;The Jesus Movement&quot;. Rumor has it that He and Larry Taylor have gone seperate ways over an issue having to do with the philosophy of how the bible college should be run. Larry believes that the college should be for confessing believers, Chuck wants it open to even the unsaved. Larry's position is that spiritual things are only discerned by the spiritual; Chuck says, &quot;Maybe someone will get saved while studying the scriptures&quot;



[Edited on 7-3-2004 by Scott Bushey]


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 3, 2004)

What attracted me (and many others I know) to the CC Church's was their no nonsense preaching. It's verse by verse, chapter by chapter straight from the word. They have a morning worship and and evening worship. They are not normally worried about how long it takes for a sermon to end as they will finish the context of the chapter you are in at that time. It's pretty nice!

Our church was set to become a CC church but then we learned that Chuch Smith is the &quot;Moses&quot; type of figure. All the churches have elders but the final say about anything resides with Chuck. This includes things that have no basis in scripture (like our church having two pastors). If Chuck is uncomfortable with it then it must go or you cannot be a CC Church.

And since Chuck claims to waffle inbetween Calvinism and Arminianism I assume all pastors of CC church's would be required to take the exact same stance.

End of my story?

I am GLAD we are not becoming a CC church when at first I couldn't wait until we did.


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 3, 2004)

[quote:89044d9d25][i:89044d9d25]Originally posted by houseparent[/i:89044d9d25]
What attracted me (and many others I know) to the CC Church's was their no nonsense preaching. It's verse by verse, chapter by chapter straight from the word. They have a morning worship and and evening worship. They are not normally worried about how long it takes for a sermon to end as they will finish the context of the chapter you are in at that time. It's pretty nice!

Our church was set to become a CC church but then we learned that Chuch Smith is the &quot;Moses&quot; type of figure. All the churches have elders but the final say about anything resides with Chuck. This includes things that have no basis in scripture (like our church having two pastors). If Chuck is uncomfortable with it then it must go or you cannot be a CC Church.

And since Chuck claims to waffle inbetween Calvinism and Arminianism I assume all pastors of CC church's would be required to take the exact same stance.

End of my story?

I am GLAD we are not becoming a CC church when at first I couldn't wait until we did. [/quote:89044d9d25]

Adam,
Unfortunately, they have no theological educations. Would you be comfortable if your children read chapter by chapter and verse by verse to you? I know you wouldn't. But this is what the Calvarians do.......they have the right plan, but the wrong equipment to accomplish the task they set out to complete, hence:

Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge:

Sad, but so true.


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## just_grace (Nov 27, 2004)

Nice post. Me.... I can't get a decent Church to attend at the moment. Went to a Reformed et Cauterets the other day' it was closed...sad for Sunday....

David


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 27, 2004)

The last Church I attended for about a year and a half after my divorce was a Horizon Fellowship. I didn't become a member because of my doctrinal stances. They wouldn't allow me to do anything there, because I wasn't a dispensationalist Pre-Mill. If you merge into the movement, it's not Presbyterian or even congregational. It has an Hierarchy platform in church governmet. What the Area head Pastor says is what goes despite the congregation. Oh yea, and the CC people own the property so if the whole congregation wants to separate. To Bad. The property stays CC. I went there because a close friend and neighborhood single dad went there. We all left when the head Pastor of the area went against the will of the congregation and picked a Pastor that the congregation didn't want. They were more leaneant concerning my Calvinism than they were my amil position. Oh Yea, a Pastor has to agree with all of the doctrines that the CC Church believes or he can not Pastor in one of their Churches. That is the way it was at our Church. We had some very gifted people that could have stepped into the Pulpit who had degrees but they were overlooked even though the congregation wanted them. The previous statement was why they were not accepted.
Randy



[Edited on 11-29-2004 by puritancovenanter]


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