# Can atheists be thankful?



## he beholds (Dec 22, 2009)

Can atheists be thankful in the same sense that Christians can? I know they can thank individuals for specific things, but can they be thankful for things like the weather?


----------



## py3ak (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm sure they can feel gratitude; but they have no one to direct it towards.


----------



## he beholds (Dec 22, 2009)

thanks. i passed that insight on to friends.

-----Added 12/22/2009 at 07:18:47 EST-----

that still means, though, that technically they cannot be thankful, right?


----------



## TeachingTulip (Dec 22, 2009)

he beholds said:


> that still means, though, that technically they cannot be thankful, right?



Atheists direct their thankfulness to their idolatrous gods, called "chance," or sometimes "luck!"


----------



## py3ak (Dec 22, 2009)

Well, they can't express their general thankfulness to a person; but that they can certainly feel all the emotions that surround gratitude, an atheist like Theodore Dalrymple shows quite clearly. No doubt atheism tends towards cultivating ingratitude, but few really carry out their innate tendencies to the full extent. So if you consider thankfulness as an expression, then no; but if you consider it in its emotional spring, then yes.


----------



## Marrow Man (Dec 22, 2009)

Recently, Tim Challies began corresponding with an atheist and is posting this on his blog site. He mentions exactly this issue, the subject of thankfulness/gratitude, in the closing paragraph of his first letter, and specifically uses Bart Ehrman as an example of someone who realizes something is "missing" if there is no one there to thank:



> You asked me to ask you some questions. So here is one I’ve got. I began thinking about this after reading Bart Ehrman’s _God’s Problem_, a book in which he describes his conversion from Christianity to agnosticism. In the book he shares a few of the things he misses most about being a professed Christian. Most notably, he misses being able to give thanks. He realizes what a great life he leads, what a “blessed” life he leads, and feels like he owes gratitude to something. And yet there is no one to whom he can give thanks. This leaves a void in his life and one he regrets. “I have such a fantastic life,” he says, “that I feel an overwhelming sense of gratitude for it; I am fortunate beyond words. But I don’t have anyone to express my gratitude to. This is a void deep inside me, a void of wanting someone to thank, and I don’t see any plausible way of filling it.” I admire Ehrman for this admission because I am sure there is always the temptation to deny that he has lost anything with all he feels he has gained by leaving faith behind. After reading those words—poignant and honest words—I began to wonder how other atheists who have turned from the Christian faith have dealt with the loss of God. What have you lost? Who do you thank?


----------



## a mere housewife (Dec 22, 2009)

It does seem like atheism is specifically connected to the sin of _ingratitude_ though in Scripture? Is it just ingratitude for God Himself -- or ingratitude for everything because unless you are glorifying God with His gifts, you don't even understand what they are to be thankful for them?


----------



## David (Dec 22, 2009)

They were lucky enough to have evolved from nothing. I'd be pretty thankful if I could just get a Ferrari to evolve from nothing in my driveway.


----------



## Presbyterian Deacon (Dec 22, 2009)

Atheists thankful? Thankful to whom? And for what?

Our very purpose and reason for being is founded upon the truth that God is! He has created mankind for his purpose and glory. To Him we can give our thanks.

However, the universe of the atheist concludes with humanity as essentially deluded meatbags passing genetic material for no purpose spawned by some cosmological accident. Not much room for thankfulness in that world-view.


----------



## py3ak (Dec 22, 2009)

Ingratitude is one form or appearance or manifestation of atheism.


----------



## TeachingTulip (Dec 22, 2009)

Christian gratitude towards God, is of course, antithetical to an unbeliever's expressions of thanks . . .but unbelievers do give thanks . . .it is foolish to think they do not.

However, the atheist gives thanks to himself and his humanistic ilk, rather than giving thanks to God.

Which is gross idolatry.

Self-righteous men are full of thankfulness towards themselves for the benefits they believe they have earned for themselves and bestowed upon the world at large!


----------



## he beholds (Dec 23, 2009)

TeachingTulip said:


> Christian gratitude towards God, is of course, antithetical to an unbeliever's expressions of thanks . . .*but unbelievers do give thanks . . .it is foolish to think they do not.*
> 
> However, the atheist gives thanks to himself and his humanistic ilk, rather than giving thanks to God.
> 
> ...



Ok. So I get that they give thanks (or thank) people for specific things. Like if they got a gift from a friend, they'd thank them for it. But are you saying that it is foolish to think that they do not give thanks for things that were not personally given to them? Like I give thanks for my health. Barring any specific relationship to a doctor's specific remedies for a specific illness (for which they could certainly be thankful toward the doctor!), can they just be thankful in general for health? 

Would it be proper English for an atheist to say, "I am thankful for my health."? I get that in our postmodern society (are we still postmodern, or are we yet further away from modernity??) we accept that language from an atheist, (much like we accept "my thoughts are with you" type language) but does it accurately express an atheist's feelings regarding his health?


----------



## Zenas (Dec 23, 2009)

I think that what is meant if an atheist says, "I'm thankful for my health." is more along the lines of "I'm happy I'm healthy." Gratitude has to be directed somewhere. I don't think it can be general and impersonal.


----------



## he beholds (Dec 23, 2009)

Zenas said:


> I think that what is meant if an atheist says, "I'm thankful for my health." is more along the lines of "I'm happy I'm healthy." Gratitude has to be directed somewhere. I don't think it can be general and impersonal.



In an exchange with atheists, I said roughly the same thing, and they were offended that I said they could be glad while I could be thankful.


----------



## Zenas (Dec 23, 2009)

They might very well be thankful, but it's irrational and illogical.


----------



## py3ak (Dec 23, 2009)

he beholds said:


> Zenas said:
> 
> 
> > I think that what is meant if an atheist says, "I'm thankful for my health." is more along the lines of "I'm happy I'm healthy." Gratitude has to be directed somewhere. I don't think it can be general and impersonal.
> ...



Many atheists are offended by almost everything.


----------



## tlharvey7 (Dec 23, 2009)

Atheists should be grateful that they only attack christianity and not islaam.
the outcome of the later would be violent.


----------



## he beholds (Dec 23, 2009)

a mere housewife said:


> It does seem like atheism is specifically connected to the sin of _ingratitude_ though in Scripture? Is it just ingratitude for God Himself -- or ingratitude for everything because unless you are glorifying God with His gifts, you don't even understand what they are to be thankful for them?



Here's a related article by Mohler. It sort of touches upon Heidi's idea.

From the blog:



> _For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what has been made, so that they are without excuse. For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their speculations, and their foolish heart was darkened. Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. . . [Romans 1:20-22]._
> 
> This remarkable passage has at its center an indictment of thanklessness. They did not honor Him as God or give thanks. Paul wants us to understand that the refusal to honor God and give thanks is a raw form of the primal sin. Theologians have long debated the foundational sin -- and answers have ranged from lust to pride. Nevertheless, it would seem that being unthankful, refusing to recognize God as the source of all good things, is very close to the essence of the primal sin. What explains the rebellion of Adam and Eve in the Garden? A lack of proper thankfulness was at the core of their sin. God gave them unspeakable riches and abundance, but forbade them the fruit of one tree. A proper thankfulness would have led our first parents to avoid that fruit at all costs, and to obey the Lord's command. Taken further, this first sin was also a lack of thankfulness in that the decision to eat the forbidden fruit indicated a lack of thankfulness that took the form of an assertion that we creatures -- not the Creator -- know what is best for us and intend the best for us.
> 
> They did not honor Him as God or give thanks. Clearly, honoring God as God leads us naturally into thankfulness. To honor Him as God is to honor His limitless love, His benevolence and care, His provision and uncountable gifts. To fail in thankfulness is to fail to honor God -- and this is the biblical description of fallen and sinful humanity. We are a thankless lot.


----------



## TeachingTulip (Dec 23, 2009)

he beholds said:


> a mere housewife said:
> 
> 
> > It does seem like atheism is specifically connected to the sin of _ingratitude_ though in Scripture? Is it just ingratitude for God Himself -- or ingratitude for everything because unless you are glorifying God with His gifts, you don't even understand what they are to be thankful for them?
> ...



To clarify . . . I do not argue that atheists are unthankful towards God . . .of course reprobates do not thank God for all things as they should 

But saying so, is not the same thing as denying that atheists are "thankful creatures," for indeed atheists are thankful (for even atheists were created in the image of God).

The problem is, they are thankful only in a humanistic sense; not in a spiritual or Godly sense. 

Because atheists suppress the truths of God, their reactions to the earthly provisions of God and His sovereign control, are manifestly skewed by personal bondage to sin, flesh, and the devil.

How many times have you heard unbelievers state, "I thank my lucky stars!"?

That is demonstration of thankfulness; perverted by unrepentant sin, resulting in superstition. But it is still a sense of wanting to express "thankfulness."

(I believe it is less than worthwhile to attempt to make atheists out to be lesser moral creatures than ourselves, for except by the grace of God, so go we. We were all "atheists" before God saved our souls.)


----------



## he beholds (Dec 24, 2009)

TeachingTulip said:


> (I believe it is less than worthwhile to attempt to make atheists out to be lesser moral creatures than ourselves, for except by the grace of God, so go we. We were all "atheists" before God saved our souls.)



I was not intending to do so.


----------

