# Where did Mariology come from?



## arapahoepark (Dec 6, 2013)

How did Mary get such a place in Early Christianity and now RCC and EO?

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## davdavis (Dec 6, 2013)

In my opinion it was simply synchretism. All the other religions had Goddess figures. While orthodox Christianity never turned her into a Goddess,
unlike the modern Roman system, the distinction was very small. In addition I suspect people assumed that the virgin birth and incarnation were so unique Mary had to be especially holy, so starting with a gnostic contempt of anything physical it moved to perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, and finally the queen of heaven.

David Davis
PCA Montgomery, AL
Dave,s Ravings

“You must pay for everything in this world one way and another. There is nothing free except the Grace of God. You cannot earn that or deserve it.” 
― Charles Portis, True Grit


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## MarieP (Dec 6, 2013)

arap said:


> Where did Mariology come from?



I assume you mean Mariolotry. "Mariology" is simply the study of Mary.

Besides David's point about syncretism, it could also be from over-analyzing how a perfect man could be born of an imperfect woman. She was blessed among women, but the question is, why? Roman Catholics often bring up the term theotokos and say it means what they mean when they praise "Mary the mother of God." But the Greek term wasn't intended to focus on Mary but on Jesus. The term was fashioned in the debates over Christology in the early church, and their intention was to affirm the deity and humanity of Jesus.


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## Gforce9 (Dec 7, 2013)

In my opinion, this began in the Christology debate pre-Nicea, with the debate between the terms_ theotokos_ and _christotokos_. The discussion was intended to define Christ and a few centuries later, it morphed into a theology of Mary. I don't think the debate was ever intended to be about Mary; it was supposed to be about the Lord Jesus, but was derailed a century or so later.


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## Unoriginalname (Dec 7, 2013)

Gforce9 said:


> In my opinion, this began in the Christology debate pre-Nicea, with the debate between the terms theotokos and christotokos. The discussion was intended to define Christ and a few centuries later, it morphed into a theology of Mary. I don't think the debate was ever intended to be about Mary; it was supposed to be about the Lord Jesus, but was derailed a century or so later.



I think that is a really good point, the debate over how to describe Mary, in the early ecumenical councils had more to do with her relation to Jesus and his relation to humanity than her role. While it is easy to say that Mary's increasing role in Christian theology was to substitute for a mother goddess, I am wondering if anyone knows of a historical theology book that deals with the development of Mary's "office."


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## Alan D. Strange (Dec 7, 2013)

_Mary Through the Centuries_ by Jaroslav Pelikan treats the development of Mariology.

Peace,
Alan


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## RamistThomist (Dec 7, 2013)

Theotokos, while having some discussion in earlier centuries, really didn't come full-flower until the Cyril-Nestorius debate. Even then the term Theotokos was meant to exalt Christ, not Mary. Something along a synthesis of exagerrated typology (which we do see in Justin Martyr and Irenaeus), well-meaning new liturgies, and a syncretism of pagan religion ala Maximus.

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## GloriousBoaz (Dec 7, 2013)

Can you tell the difference?


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## TylerRay (Dec 7, 2013)

Can someone discuss the influence and impact of Bernard of Clairvaux in this area?


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## arapahoepark (Dec 7, 2013)

GloriousBoaz said:


> View attachment 3719
> View attachment 3720
> 
> Can you tell the difference?


One is in gold?


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## GloriousBoaz (Dec 8, 2013)

No lol. The one on the top is a 2nd century sculpture of Selene the Moon goddess whereas the bottom is a 17th century painting of Mary. Which I would have posted older than 17th century but they tend to be Madonna's which I assumed a moderator would remove the picture and I couldn't make my point.

Here are the links Phosphorus (morning star) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and Our Lady of the Gate of Dawn - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## RamistThomist (Dec 8, 2013)

TylerRay said:


> Can someone discuss the influence and impact of Bernard of Clairvaux in this area?



Bernard wouldn't have had any impact on Eastern Orthodoxy, since he was a Westerner (which is probably the worst insult they can give you) and much of their Mariology was already developed. Rome is a different story.


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## yeutter (Dec 31, 2013)

Cameronian said:


> TylerRay said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone discuss the influence and impact of Bernard of Clairvaux in this area?
> ...


St. Bernard of Clairvaux certainly promoted the idea of the Blessed Virgin Mary as the intercessor for sinners. Bernard was opposed in this by Abelard. Bernard was not highly regarded in the East. Bernard backed the papal claims of Anacletus II against Innocent II after the death of Honorius II. The Eastern Patriarchs backed Anacletus, who they hoped would heal the schism of the Western Church from the Eastern Church.


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