# In a nutshell...how do you...



## MamaArcher (Apr 9, 2007)

define being Reformed?

If someone were to ask you, what do you mean you are reformed? How would you answer them without a big huge theological debate that takes hours?

Also how do you in a nutshell define covenantal?

I am still a bit new and am trying to learn not only for myself but how to articulate these things to others in an understandable way.


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## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Oh good.. I am first to respond...  


Reformed is the following...

1. Adhering to the 5 Solas of the Reformation. Scripture Alone, Grace Alone, Faith Alone, Christ Alone, To God Alone be the glory..
2. Adhering the the 5 points of Calvinism.. Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Irresibable Grace, Perservance of the Saints..
3. Adhering to Covenantal Theology including Moral Law... Covenantal Baptist or Covenantal PaedoBaptist.
4. Adhering to the Regulative Principle of Worship.
5. Adhering to one of the Reformed Creeds, 1689 Baptist Confession, Westminster Confession, Beglic Confession, or Savoy Declaration..

Michael




MamaArcher said:


> define being Reformed?
> 
> If someone were to ask you, what do you mean you are reformed? How would you answer them without a big huge theological debate that takes hours?
> 
> ...


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## MamaArcher (Apr 9, 2007)

thunaer said:


> 3. Adhering to Covenantal Theology including Moral Law... Covenantal Baptist or Covenantal PaedoBaptist.
> 4. Adhering to the Regulative Principle of Worship.



Can you expound on #3 a little more...and #4 Regulative principle of worship, Where do you find your regulations on this? What is the standard? Or do you just mean orderly and how do you determine what "orderly" is?


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## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Well our regulations come from the Scripture but are summarized within the Reformed Confession under the Chapters on Worship and the Sabbath Day..

Scriptural Elements of Worship Consist of Prayer, Reading the Hearing the Word of God, Preaching the Word of God, Baptism, Lord's Supper, Oaths and Vows, Singing Psalms, Decorum, and Gestures with the Occasional ones of Days of Humilation with Fasting, and Days of Thanksgiving.

I normally try to keep Covenant Theology Short when explaining.. We adhere to a Continuity of Old and New testament and that All Scripture is for the Christians Life. We adhere to the Moral Law summarized within the Ten Commandments and that Physical Israel have united with Spiritual Israel the Church as the people of God. God has one plan for his people. God Saved his people in the same way within both Covenants.. Oh and I'll throw in that there is no rapture....

Hope this helps, I know it is short.... I have a wormy little one kidding on my lap....  

Michael




MamaArcher said:


> Can you expound on #3 a little more...and #4 Regulative principle of worship, Where do you find your regulations on this? What is the standard? Or do you just mean orderly and how do you determine what "orderly" is?


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## Anton Bruckner (Apr 9, 2007)

5 points


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## MamaArcher (Apr 9, 2007)

thunaer said:


> Oh and I'll throw in that there is no rapture....



I haven't even tried to understand this one yet! That has been so ingrained I do not even know where to start. Could someone help me with this?

I do understand it is difficult to explain things short and simple, but I do not want to overload my brain at this moment, but to have a place to begin studying. 

In the SBC we are taught rapture believing pretrib..and premillinial.
How does Calvin differ?
What is the difference between premill and historic premill?


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## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Difference between Dispensation Premill and Historic Premill (ME) are:

Historical Premills are Post Trib.. No Rapture before the Tribulation, God deals with unbelievers during the Tribulation. Church is one with Israel. The Church will reign with Christ for 1000 years on Earth during the Marriage Feast of the Lamb.

Dispensation Premills are Pre Trib. Rapture the church before the Tribulation. Israel is Seperate from the Church. God deals with Israel during the Tribulation and during the 1000 year reign. Church is in Heaven. Jews will Reign with Christ for 1000 years.

What won we over first is a reading plain reading of Matthew 24. When reading, note that the Apostles who are being told this by Christ is the foundation of the Church.

There is plenty more Scripture, but that will start ya on the Rapture question.....

Michael



MamaArcher said:


> I haven't even tried to understand this one yet! That has been so ingrained I do not even know where to start. Could someone help me with this?
> 
> I do understand it is difficult to explain things short and simple, but I do not want to overload my brain at this moment, but to have a place to begin studying.
> 
> ...


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## Coram Deo (Apr 9, 2007)

Calvin was an A-Mill...

Believing the thousand year reign is NOW during the Church Age.... No future Reign on Earth...

We Historic Premill believe in a Reigning Now.. The Spiritual Reign of Christ, but not the Medatoral Reign of Christ on Earth in the Future..
Read John Gill (Early Reformed Baptist 1700s) on both Reigns of Christ.

Michael



MamaArcher said:


> I haven't even tried to understand this one yet! That has been so ingrained I do not even know where to start. Could someone help me with this?
> 
> I do understand it is difficult to explain things short and simple, but I do not want to overload my brain at this moment, but to have a place to begin studying.
> 
> ...


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## beej6 (Apr 9, 2007)

thunaer said:


> Oh good.. I am first to respond...
> 
> 
> Reformed is the following...
> ...



Actually, I think (5.) is sufficient... though traditionally the Belgic, Heidelberg Catechism, and Canons of Dordt are held together as the "Three Forms of Unity." 

Now we can argue about which Confessions are Reformed <ducking>.


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## MrMerlin777 (Apr 9, 2007)

5points.
5solas.


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## VanVos (Apr 9, 2007)

I agree, Reformed = 5 points and 5 solas. This might seem an inadequate definition but it's surprising how few churches hold to this consistently.

VanVos


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## larryjf (Apr 9, 2007)

We had this discussion over on my blog if you want to check it out...
http://theologian.wordpress.com/2006/12/11/reformed-or-not/


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## JohnV (Apr 9, 2007)

To someone new to the Reformed faith, I would say that being Reformed is trying to be self-consciously Biblical. It is very simply trying to reform oneself to Christ's service. You don't have to be one thing or the other to be Reformed, just willing to obey the Bible's teachings and commands out of a sense of thankfulness to Christ for salvation. The Sola's and the five heads of doctrine come afterwards, as you learn more. And as you learn to read the Bible within its own context, you end up reading it in terms of what has been called Covenant Theology, because that's how the Bible reads. 

To the more mature, being Reformed becomes a little more tricky. It sometimes isn't enough just to say that it consists of following the five sola's or the five heads of doctrine. For such people we also have to stress the limits of doctrine, and the limits of the sola's not to go beyond them.


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 10, 2007)

Back Then: 5 points + 5 solas + covenantal (specifically with infant bapstism)

Later: 5 points + 5 solas + hold to a reformed confession (WCF, Belgic, LBC II)

TODAY: 5 points + 5 solas + overally Christian worldview and *some* covenantalism. This includes reformed baptists as well as all the Presbyterian folks. And yes, it even includes MacArthur. There's a quote from MacArthur on podcast I need to dig up, but if you hear it (and it's him talking about 1 Cor. 7), you'd swear he was paedo and had accepted covenant theology.

And *all* orthodox positions on the 2nd coming have *a rapture*. The word simply means 'caught up' (translated from the latin 'rapere' in the Vulgate version of 1 Thess. 4:16). The only thing all of the positons differ on is the TIMING of the rapture and exactly what happens after that.

Don't be so quick to throw out biblical terminology just to spite dispensationalism.


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## Theogenes (Apr 10, 2007)

BIBLICAL!
Biblical Christianity.


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## Dagmire (Apr 10, 2007)

I, personally, don't define being reformed. I don't find all of the terms we apply to so many things helpful. As far as I'm concerned, there is Christian and non-Christian; there is godly and ungodly; there is Christlikeness and Christlessness. It doesn't matter how many -isms you apply to yourself or others. You either walk in God's ways or you don't.


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## Poimen (Apr 10, 2007)

Kristine:

The Reformers would not recognize many of the groups who call themselves 'Reformed' today as Reformed. The easiest way to identify what is Reformed and whether or not a particular ecclesiastical body is Reformed is to examine whether or not they faithfully adhere to the confession(s) of the Reformed faith. This would include the Three Forms of Unity (the Belgic Confession, the Heidelberg Catechism & the Canons of Dordrecht) and/or the Westminster Standards. 

Other groups identify with many of the tenets of these standards but deny essential points that undermine the system of doctrine upheld in the aforementioned doctrinal standards and thus cannot properly be called Reformed. This is why, among other reasons, church history and the historical creeds and confessions of the church are so important: people keep trying to change definitions and it gets rather confusing!

Signed,

A confessional curmudgeon


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## bookslover (Apr 10, 2007)

thunaer said:


> We Historic Premill believe in a Reigning Now...



Nice to see another historic premil on the Board, Michael. We're taking over! 

Actually, there IS a rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17). What counts is where you put it in the premil scheme.


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## Coram Deo (Apr 11, 2007)

Historic Premils of the PB UNITE...  

I agree with you that there is a rapture in that passage and it counts where you place in the scheme... "Post Tribulation", but for sake of argument most people think today, rapture, oh church raptured before tribulation and we are gone... So normally I either not mention the rapture aspect or mention it with the greek word "Apentsis" (sp) which means to return right away to Earth after meeting Christ in the Clouds.

Michael



bookslover said:


> Nice to see another historic premil on the Board, Michael. We're taking over!
> 
> Actually, there IS a rapture (1 Thessalonians 4:17). What counts is where you put it in the premil scheme.


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 11, 2007)

<===generic premill. Only thing I'm dogmatic about is Rev. 20:4-6.

And I think I'm posttrib.

and Christ is reigning now.

and the 'last days' began at Pentecost.

I guess that would make me vaguely historic premill.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 11, 2007)

Daniel F.N. Ritchie, _The Regulative Principle of Worship_, pp. vii-viii:



> If someone were to ask you 'what is a Reformed Christian?' most of us would probably answer that a Reformed Christian is someone who subscribes to the doctrines commonly called the five points of Calvinism (total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace and perservance of the saints). However, this is only part of the story. To be considered 'Reformed', in the historical sense, one is not only required to be a Calvinist in one's view of the doctrines of salvation; but one must also adhere to what is known as the 'regulative principle', which is, 'the theory of church government and worship that not only church doctrine but church practice, must be based on clear Scriptural warrant.' (A. Cairns, _Dictionary of Theological Terms_, p. 305). This is the consistent outworking of the principle that 'there is no other head of the Church, but the Lord Jesus Christ' (_Westminster Confession of Faith_ Chapter 25: Section 6). If Jesus Christ alone is King and Head of His Church, 'the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood' (Acts 20:28), the He alone has the right to stipulate how His Church should be governed and how it should worship Him.


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## Larry Hughes (Apr 11, 2007)

http://kimriddlebarger.squarespace.com/how-many-points/

You'll find this essay by Muller on "How Many Points" the best short summary of what is truly Reformed. The system builds and stands upon every single point including the use of the sacraments. It was a Lutheran, Herman Sasse I believe, who once said that if you don't understand the sacraments you will misunderstand other Scripture. And he is right. If you study the different systems out there even just neutrally you will find they all build on themselves around the sacraments be it Reformed, Lutheran, Roman Catholic or Baptistic. Each system's theology is a shadow of their understanding of the sacraments from start to finish even if you take a pure neutral analytical look at them without saying X is right and Y is wrong. That's at least an honest "look at it". But you'll find this essay the most helpful as a summary as to why what is Reformed in the sense of the term versus not.

I hope this helps,

Larry


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## No Longer A Libertine (Apr 11, 2007)

How do I define reformed theology?

Bibical Christianity.


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## bwsmith (Apr 13, 2007)

MamaArcher said:


> define being Reformed?
> 
> If someone were to ask you, what do you mean you are reformed? How would you answer them without a big huge theological debate that takes hours?
> 
> ...



I looked up “being reformed” and “covenantal” in a standard dictionary, and found that the first word, reformed is made possible because of the second, covenant. Reformed describes a person who is improved by the removal of faults or abuses, and improved in conduct or character. A covenant is a signed written agreement between two or more parties (nations) to perform some action – it is most often “entered” into. Because of God’s covenant of Grace – one that He upholds with the helpless souls upon whom He has mercy – we are changed from the inside out, so even the most thorny character may glorify God – and while we are not yet all He means us to be, we are different, on a daily basis. 

“Being reformed” is not a phrase in Scripture; the principle undergirding the phrase is. (Philippians 3:12-19) The word covenantal describes the process by which God established a relationship with some men – Noah, Abraham, and Moses down through history to you and me. 

Some think being reformed and covenantal are the best lens through which to see God’s purposes in human history – others deem them a troubling distortion. Still, these phrases describe what many Christians think about their faith, how to read church history, the Scriptures, and their church. 

The best way to gauge the depth of a person’s “being reformed” is to watch how they put all their well-phrased doctrinal tools to work in the garden God assigns them – the blessed covenantal relationship He initiated and sustains. 

Other definitions of being reformed and covenantal include the following five points – quite a mouthful to someone new in Christ – and wholly dependent on a store of knowledge most new in the faith lack. Others have addressed them, and they are important to investigate – for they describe a theological system that emerged after centuries of the church’s poor witness and abuse of her mission and calling – but it’s more important to see what the Scriptures teach that the points sum up – then ask how do these points help our faith and conduct? In my humble opinion, “They” don’t; the God whom reformed theologians seek to quantify, does.


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## Archlute (Apr 13, 2007)

JohnV said:


> *To someone new to the Reformed faith, I would say that being Reformed is trying to be self-consciously Biblical.* It is very simply trying to reform oneself to Christ's service. You don't have to be one thing or the other to be Reformed, just willing to obey the Bible's teachings and commands out of a sense of thankfulness to Christ for salvation. The Sola's and the five heads of doctrine come afterwards, as you learn more. And as you learn to read the Bible within its own context, you end up reading it in terms of what has been called Covenant Theology, because that's how the Bible reads.



That is exactly right, John. I often hear arguments over this very question that fail to recongnize the fact that saying one is "reformed" is merely shorthand for saying that one is "reformed according to the Scriptures". That simple truth is oft forgotten.


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## Dieter Schneider (Apr 14, 2007)

MamaArcher said:


> define being Reformed?
> 
> If someone were to ask you, what do you mean you are reformed? How would you answer them without a big huge theological debate that takes hours?
> 
> ...



Check my blog www.calvinismonline.blogspot.com


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## turmeric (Apr 14, 2007)

I tend to call it "classical Protestantism".


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