# The place of art in the Christian life



## deleteduser99 (Feb 23, 2014)

I've recently decided to take up the violin. For a few years I have wanted to, but when my fiancee came down with her mother to move in the first load of belongings into my apartment, among the things Lydia brought with her was her violin, because she knows I had been wanting to learn. Very sweet of her, even if the squawks and squeals I make on it are not. 

I'm a firm believer in the regulative principle, and only what's positively commanded in worship should be done, so music showcasing during the public singing is absolutely out. However, what is the positive place of music or art in the Christian life? Why learn violin? What does Scripture have to say on art or music that is not part of public worship? How is mastering an instrument to the glory of God? How can it be used that way? Is there a good and sanctified reason to pursue an instrument to a point of mastery?

PS - I've learned just enough to tell you that the smiley in the above GIF is bowing incorrectly


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## Peairtach (Feb 23, 2014)

There were added concerns with public worship concerning liberty of conscience, uniformity of worship and church unity, on top of purity of worship, which meant that hymns and instrumentation were excluded. It was held that unaccompanied singing of the Psalms of David had the necessarily high Scripture warrant for public worship.

Notice that in the 1673 Preface to the Scottish Psalter, the divines do not say it is always wrong to compose or sing hymns.

The Preface to the Scottish Psalter


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## deleteduser99 (Feb 23, 2014)

Peairtach said:


> There were added concerns with public worship concerning liberty of conscience, uniformity of worship and church unity, on top of purity of worship, which meant that hymns and instrumentation were excluded. It was held that unaccompanied singing of the Psalms of David had the necessarily high Scripture warrant for public worship.
> 
> Notice that in the 1673 Preface to the Scottish Psalter, the divines do not say it is always wrong to compose or sing hymns.
> 
> The Preface to the Scottish Psalter



Thank you for the material Richard. However, I want to stay away from the EP v. hymns debate in public worship, and also the use of instruments v. a capella in public worship, entirely. Assuming that I am not learning violin for any use whatsoever in public worship, what does Scripture have to say on the endeavor? How could I make sure that the practice glorifies God? Or what does Scripture have to say on art and music in general outside of public worship?


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## jwithnell (Feb 23, 2014)

If I make a beautiful photograph, I am taking something God has created and have tried to create something lovely that glorifies him. As a result, when I walk around in life, I see the play of light, and myriad shades of colors that might otherwise be missed. I have no idea what talent you might have, but the general principles of music can be learned and applied, and likely you can produce something that brings God glory. For some reason, music seems to strike close to the heart. Of all the media that can make man pause to reflect, that can turn the heart to the creator, music has to be one of the most evocative. Perhaps that's why we see so many references to it in the scriptures.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 23, 2014)

Hello Harley,

Is there any "use" for beauty? May it be created for the glory of God and the godly enjoyment of man?

Is technical proficiency in any of the arts of value? My art is poetry and literature, and I know it may be used for the Lord and His kingdom. Here are some good authors on Christians and the arts (some of the books are small, but of great worth):

Francis Schaeffer:

Art and the Bible

Publisher Description:
"The lordship of Christ should include an interest in the arts," writes Francis Schaeffer. "A Christian should use these arts to the glory of God, not just as tracts, mind you, but as things of beauty to the praise of God." Many Christians, wary of creating graven images, have steered clear of artistic creativity. But the Bible offers a robust affirmation of the arts. The human impulse to create reflects our being created in the image of a creator God.

Art and the Bible has been a foundational work for generations of Christians in the arts. In this book's classic essays, Francis Schaeffer first examines the scriptural record of the use of various art forms, and then establishes a Christian perspective on art. With clarity and vigor, Schaeffer explains why "the Christian is the one whose imagination should fly beyond the stars."​

Hans Rookmaaker:

Art Needs No Justification

Modern Art and the Death of a Culture


Philip Graham Ryken

Art for God's Sake: A Call to Recover the Arts


I hope this is helpful.


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## Mindaboo (Feb 23, 2014)

There are other ways to bless others with your playing. I've taken my girls to nursing homes or to play for elderly friends. It doesn't always have to be about performing.


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## VictorBravo (Feb 24, 2014)

Art focuses the mind. Studying it and practicing it requires physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional effort. Done properly, it gives us a hint at what it will be like to be totally integrated instead of being divided now, as we are, by the effects of sin.

My instruments are the organ, harpsichord, baritone horn, harmonica, trumpet, and fiddle. I will never be good enough at them to make a living as a performer, though I came close once as an organist and brass player. Now I play them solely for the personal challenge and only occasionally to accompany sing-alongs at a home.

I've been challenged by a lot of things, but perhaps the most difficult challenge I've ever faced is trying to learn Franck's Chorale in e minor. For some reason it is barely out of reach of my technical capacities. I've learned Bach preludes and fugues, trio sonatas, and other things. But this Franck piece is out there, almost within reach, yet just a little too far.

I started learning it some 4 years ago, worked on it every evening for 9 months, and was able to play each page on its own. But in trying to put it together, it falls from my fingers.

Yet it is out there demanding my attention. I've started working on it again, now that I'm settled in my new career and new home. All the joys and frustrations from 4 years ago have come back fresh as a morning. There are times when I do catch that hint of integration--being a complete being while doing something physically and mentally demanding. 

I once figured I've spent over 300 hours trying to learn it, and that was after spending some 200 hours building an instrument on which to play it. Has it been worth it? Absolutely. I praise God after almost every practice session for being allowed to experience what it requires of me.

Not much else I can add. I've never tried to justify it to anyone. Those who might demand justification receive a shrug and little or no comment.


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## ZackF (Feb 24, 2014)

VictorBravo said:


> Art focuses the mind. Studying it and practicing it requires physical, mental, spiritual, and emotional effort. Done properly, it gives us a hint at what it will be like to be totally integrated instead of being divided now, as we are, by the effects of sin.
> 
> My instruments are the organ, harpsichord, baritone horn, harmonica, trumpet, and fiddle. I will never be good enough at them to make a living as a performer, though I came close once as an organist and brass player. Now I play them solely for the personal challenge and only occasionally to accompany sing-alongs at a home.
> 
> ...



What do you not do Vic? Don't you make telescopes too? I'll bet you are on Elon Musk's Martian crew somewhere designing something?

I guess my hobby time sink has become languages. I've messed around with a few, but I'm finally getting Spanish to where it is "useful" for lack of a better term. Like your instruments I have a list of languages that I want to test fluent in...that is receive a C1 (on European proficiency scale) certificate in Spanish, French, German and a B1 in Russian in due course as bucket list languages. It's all about pushing oneself. The understanding and ability comes gradually. I just keep drilling, reading, writing and listening.


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## Mindaboo (Feb 24, 2014)

Thank you, Victor, for what you said. I have three string players and have often struggled with whether I'm investing in things worthy of the time it takes. My girls spend hours every day/week practicing. My children have learned many things through their music...discipline and hard work are probably the biggest two things. We've been blessed by having a Christian teacher for violin/viola, and she conducts our orchestra as well. Music engages the mind and really all of the senses. I admit that I love hearing my girls play here at home. It's been a huge blessing.


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## VictorBravo (Feb 24, 2014)

KS_Presby said:


> Like your instruments I have a list of languages that I want to test fluent in...that is receive a C1 (on European proficiency scale) certificate in Spanish, French, German and a B1 in Russian in due course as bucket list languages. It's all about pushing oneself. The understanding and ability comes gradually. I just keep drilling, reading, writing and listening.



I agree. It's amazing what you learn and can apply to other areas of life through simple, consistent, and focused work. I love to tackle new things by way of intensive projects. One at a time.

Right now I wouldn't play a fiddle in front of anyone, but 10 years ago I could keep up with the old timers. And yes, I've built two telescopes, but they are now disassembled in boxes after our move, waiting for me to finish other projects....

I posted this before, but can't resist again. Here is the organ project story from a few years ago: Midi Conversion: Baldwin Cinema II - YouTube


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## a mere housewife (Feb 24, 2014)

I think it's empty in and of itself? People who live for their art wind up destroying their personal lives just as much as other people -- I think perhaps the tendency may be heightened by restructuring life around self expression. Artists don't necessarily achieve any greater understanding or clarity about their own condition, or the human condition, than many other people. Where a great artist does express something more clearly for all of us, it seems that it is because of what they consider more valuable than art. Take Jane Austen, mentioned on another thread -- I don't think she could have produced anything so genuinely and abidingly apt on the smaller scale of social virtues had she valued her art more than she valued interruptions by her nephews and nieces.

I am unsure that placing a value on beauty and practicing at it automatically make us more fully human? -- the Nazis had a great appreciation of many beautiful works of art. Solomon as a great artist can lump artistic work, like every other, in with vanity. But with those qualms, I think it does have all the values listed here -- as well as the value Solomon ascribes to all work of occupying us with something purposeful while it lasts. And I think there is also a therapeutic value in creating and communicating something meaningful and ordered. Pain in our experience tends to destroy what is meaningful, to degenerate it to chaos, and to isolate us, and art is one of the ways to transfigure that. 

For me, art has value in relationships -- my relationship with Christ ('without Him was not anything made that was made'), but it also has a place in loving my neighbor (most namely Ruben, who is probably the only person who could care for much of what I practice at and produce  but that's enough to justify it; and a wider audience while neglecting him would be much less justifiable to me.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Feb 24, 2014)

Harley said:


> what is the positive place of music or art in the Christian life?


I suppose this all falls on how we define art. 

I define art as an expression of our interpretation of: 1) God's providence, 2) that which God has created, 3) that which man has made from the building blocks of God's creation, or a combination of the three. Based on this, we all engage in Art of some form at some time, beit in spoken language, dress, home decoration, or organization. The first form of Art (as I define it,) that I can find in the Bible, is Adam's organization of animals by name through the first record of Human based taxonomy. (Previously God utilized taxonomy to organize animals by origin.) However, Adam naming the animals was certainly an "Art" by his expression via communication in naming convention, of the animals which God brought to him. 

Adam was placed in the garden to "manufacture" strongs 5647 from it, and to do so in a way that preserves it. "How", he was to do this was left to him with the understanding that he was also to "preserve" it, and that he was not to attempt to do so in such a way that violated God's Laws. 

Art can certianly be negative, or it can be positive. 
If our focus in our manufacture of works of art are destructive in nature, tend to focus on the effects of sin, promote hostility, or detract from obedience to God’s law, then we have an illegitimate art. If our focus in art is to glorify God in his creation, respect his providence, or do not focus on the negative destruction of man’s work (unless perhaps as a warning to others,) then I believe we have a just art.

A guideline I believe may be the following.
"Finally, brethren, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are just, whatsoever things are pure, whatsoever things are lovely, whatsoever things are of good report; if there be any virtue, and if there be any praise, think on these things."

So gather together those notes of the laws of vibration that the Lord has created brother. Just continue to do so in such a way that your expression is true, honest, just, pure, lovely and of good report. (In some minds this may mean that the hurdy gurdy or bagpipes are forbade, but I think they miss the point.)


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## a mere housewife (Feb 24, 2014)

Zack will be so flattered to know that you appreciated his 'art' (he did destroy his personal life with it). 

I'm a tiny bit horrified.



Pilgrim Standard said:


> (In some minds this may mean that the hurdy gurdy or bagpipes are forbade, but I think they miss the point.)



*giggles*


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## a mere housewife (Feb 24, 2014)

He ruined his relationship with his hairdresser.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Feb 24, 2014)

a mere housewife said:


> He ruined his relationship with his hairdresser.


And that was a bad thing?


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## py3ak (Feb 24, 2014)

His hairdresser was the only Reformed influence in his life.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Feb 24, 2014)

py3ak said:


> His hairdresser was the only Reformed influence in his life.


I stand corrected.... and now see how art can have such a negative impact. It all unraveled so quickly. I am truly sorry.


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## a mere housewife (Feb 24, 2014)

That was before he took his spiritual journey in the shape of a camelma and wound up offering up a continual scent of smoking earwax before an image of Carl Trueman (though 'the Big T' did give Zack permission to worship him, on condition that it was only dulia and not latria). 

You're so unsophisticated. Look what you've done to this thread. Just look at it.


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## py3ak (Feb 24, 2014)

Pilgrim Standard said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> > His hairdresser was the only Reformed influence in his life.
> ...



It was actually something of a relief for his hairdresser.


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## ZackF (Feb 24, 2014)

a mere housewife said:


> Zack will be so flattered to know that you appreciated his 'art' (he did destroy his personal life with it).
> 
> I'm a tiny bit horrified.
> 
> ...



What did I do?


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## VictorBravo (Feb 24, 2014)

KS_Presby said:


> What did I do?



Different Zach, Zach. Unfortunately, or maybe fortunately, you missed the drama of Zach the dog from several years ago.


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## ZackF (Feb 26, 2014)

VictorBravo said:


> KS_Presby said:
> 
> 
> > What did I do?
> ...



Okay. I am in and out here depending on life. I go back to 2006 but have gone months at a time without posting.


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## Claudiu (Feb 26, 2014)

jwithnell said:


> If I make a beautiful photograph, I am taking something God has created and have tried to create something lovely that glorifies him. As a result, when I walk around in life, I see the play of light, and myriad shades of colors that might otherwise be missed. I have no idea what talent you might have, but the general principles of music can be learned and applied, and likely you can produce something that brings God glory. For some reason, music seems to strike close to the heart. Of all the media that can make man pause to reflect, that can turn the heart to the creator, music has to be one of the most evocative. Perhaps that's why we see so many references to it in the scriptures.



Ditto. Art is important. And music, I think, is special.


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## deleteduser99 (Mar 9, 2014)

You all have answered my question very well with your insights and book suggestions. This is just what I was looking for.

Though, Josh and Heidi left me with more questions, and they probably don't relate to art.


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## Kaalvenist (Mar 10, 2014)

Aside from everything else that might be said regarding music in and of itself, one advantage that Laura and I have noted to having a piano background (I took lessons for eleven years, she was self-taught) is that our ability to sing in public and family worship is considerably better than it might have been otherwise. Obviously, the main concern in such singing is to praise God from the heart; but elevating heart-singing (contrasted with voice-singing) to an exclusive role is arguably a gnostic tendency. It's also enabled me to be a precentor at our church, which further serves the church's worship.

We want all of our children to have at least some instrumental training.


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