# The Cultural Argument For Women Pastors



## Quatchu (Jun 3, 2015)

I have currently having a discussion with a evangelical friend of mine who is strongly in favor of women in ministry, pertaining to this recent article http://www.patheos.com/blogs/biblea...nts-against-women-in-ministry-arent-biblical/

He claims a high view of scripture yet claims that passages in which Paul forbids women preaching when understood within context are not actually what they have traditionally been understood. As someone who has been taught to understand the full context of scripture I find it hard to fight his argument. it also seems like I have a hard time finding responses against the cultural argument. What are the orthodox arguments against these cultural arguments.


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## Nicholas Perella (Jun 3, 2015)

Quatchu said:


> yet claims that passages in which Paul forbids women preaching when understood within context are not actually what they have traditionally been understood.



Does he simply assert this or is there more to his argument concerning these biblical passages?


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## Quatchu (Jun 3, 2015)

There is more to his argument. the 3rd point of the article i linked to would be his argument. That is that when Paul forbids a women to preach the context is that women have been disruptive because of there uneducated nature whitch caused chaos.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jun 3, 2015)

See also:
http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/86390-Attending-service-taught-by-woman


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## Nicholas Perella (Jun 3, 2015)

I could not copy and paste from the article, so, I will simply type it out and one can search the article for the reference.

I noticed that he says more than once, that it is biblical (or common for Paul) to start where people are at, accept them for who they are, then to eventually get to the right way (though it is falsely God's way and thus the wrong way). Then one has to just search the scriptures to find instances when the 'right way' or 'where people should be' is mentioned. So directions listed in 1 Timothy on elders and deacons being a husband of one wife, are according to the writer of the article instances of when Paul was 'starting where the people are'. Though Paul never says anywhere, 'start with where the people are' and 'love them for who they are', then eventually start pushing the envelope to change that culture of elders and deacons being a husband of one wife.

In the article in 1 Timothy where he states how women are not educated enough to teach is why Paul says what he says, is again not anywhere in the passage. There is nothing about 'ok the women can not yet teach because they do not know enough, but when they do - let them teach'.

It is clear that with your friend I would start talking about Christ Jesus and how He died for our sins. I would talk about who God is. What it means that the Righteousness of Christ is imputed to His people. Let the wisdom and love that is Christ wash over his soul. I would not focus on women teaching or not. Let the knowledge of Christ fill him and let God work this out in his life. There is a time to talk about the women teaching issue, but I think it would be wise to not let that become 'the talk' for now. Maybe not even bring it up for a long time until there is a familiarity between the two of you as to how each of you think about Christ. Maybe there is an underlying problem in how he views Christ, and if that is not corrected by God's Word then the issue of women not to teach will probably never be reconciled. But I would find that out first. Probe more and more and let the knowledge of Christ and His fruitful blessings of holiness and righteousness be renewed in the image and likeness of God that we have been created in for we truly will be glorified and without sin at His return.

God Bless


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jun 3, 2015)

Nicholas Perella said:


> I could not copy and paste from the article, so, I will simply type it out and one can search the article for the reference.


Copy and paste available here: 
http://www.beliefnet.com/columnists...against-women-in-ministry-arent-biblical.html


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## Nicholas Perella (Jun 3, 2015)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> Nicholas Perella said:
> 
> 
> > I could not copy and paste from the article, so, I will simply type it out and one can search the article for the reference.
> ...



Thanks. That is not the full article originally posted in the OP. From what I see a paragraph is missing near the end. What I quote below was repeated again in the OP article in that missing paragraph that Patrick posted. The paragraph is about eldership.

Here's a few quotes as to what I mentioned:

From point 2:


> As I have argued at length, the patriarchal family was the existing reality in the NT world, and what you discover when you compare what is in the NT and what is outside the NT, is that Paul and others are working hard to change the existing structures in a more Christian direction. Paul, for example, has to start with his audience where they are, and then persuade them to change.



But here is something else that I noticed from the article that is chalk full of lies. It denies 'no sin' pre-Fall. It denies that God instructed Eve because in the reading of Genesis Eve does tell Satan the probation. It denies special revelation from God pre-Fall and hypocritical to his logic Adam was to instruct Eve and Adam did not. Probably so much more but that is good for now. To have this many misunderstandings from a man who is supposedly a theologian would have me not desire to be his pupil on anything. Sometimes people make mistakes and sometimes people just keep making mistakes and it is time to stop listening to them. Here is the quote from the article:



> The story is as follows in the Hebrew— only Adam is instructed about the prohibition in regard to the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and it was his duty to properly instruct Eve, as she was not around when that prohibition was given. As the story develops, it is clear enough that Eve had not been properly instructed.



I think Deuteronomy 18:22 is applicable here. The article writer claims to be speaking God's Word (telling us what scripture means), but that is not true. Therefore he is not from the LORD.

I am sure you knew all this and that is why you are with brotherly love having compassion with your friend who wrongly supports the article.

God Bless


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## arapahoepark (Jun 3, 2015)

Paul does not deny women a place in the ordained ministry because they were uneducated, 1 Timothy 2 says that they should learn with quietness and submission. If they use 1 Timothy 2 for that the context has just refuted them. Rather Paul refers to the order of the fall and creation rather than the circumstances.


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