# Transferring Credentials Trouble



## Grafted In (Dec 23, 2010)

Brothers,

My pastor is attempting to transfer his credentials from the PCA to the OPC as our church is also attempting to come into the OPC. He was told this week that he would have to basically take examinations with the presbytery as if he were being ordained for the first time, including exams in Bible knowledge, theology, languages, Church Order, etc., etc. He was ordained in the PCA through the Northern Texas presbytery nearly six years ago.

In the experience of any on the Board, is this typical? Is it normal for a man who is ordained in one NAPARC denomination to be subjected to examination to this extent when transferring credentials another NAPARC denomination?


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## N. Eshelman (Dec 23, 2010)

When the Grand Rapids ARP moved into the RPCNA, the pastor, Ray Lanning, had to take examinations. I sat in on his 3+ hour exam as he was questioned on all things from Presbyterian history to biblical knowledge to systematic theology. Of course, this was "all one big exam." When any minister transfers between presbyteries, this type of examination is required (at least in the RPCNA).... but if they are considering him a student of theology and not a minister of Word and Sacrament! 

I think that is inappropriate for a NAPARC church. 

Call the OPC inter-church committee members from the PCA and have them contact the presbytery in the OPC. That may cause a stir... but c'mon!?


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## fredtgreco (Dec 23, 2010)

Yes, and no. It is normal to be examined in all _areas_ when transferred, but usually not to the _extent _of a new ordinand. So for example, the PCA BCO has the same kind of provision:



> 13-6. Ministers seeking admission to a Presbytery from other Presbyteries
> in the Presbyterian Church in America shall be examined on Christian
> experience, and also touching their views in theology, the Sacraments, and
> church government. If applicants come from other denominations, the
> ...



If you don't mind me asking (and you can answer by PM), why is your church seeking to go into the OPC, especially if you are calling a PCA pastor? And who is the pastor?


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## Scottish Lass (Dec 23, 2010)

Tim was examined each time he changed presbyteries within just the ARP...


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## Edward (Dec 24, 2010)

Does he have significant opposition in the Presbytery? 

The Naparc section on transfers deals primarily with folks under discipline in their former body, and congregations with unsatisfied obligations. 

Transfer of Members/Congregations - NAPARC


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## Contra_Mundum (Dec 24, 2010)

A man being transferred to another denomination can expect a "thorough" exam, although typically a man's prior ordination in a sister-denomination counts for something. I've been through THREE "thorough" (!) exams.

The OPC puts its licentiates through the wringer. I was licensed in the OPC. Example: the OPC typically tests licentiates on languages, while the PCA often accepts seminary grades for candidates for ordination.

Then, I was ordained in the PCA. Because I was being called as a "candidate" (but from a sister-denomination) I was put through every exam that a PCA licentiate goes through, as well as their ordination exams. No "breaks" because the OPC front-loads their licentiate exams.

Finally, I was called to an OPC church (Presbytery of MI-ON), and went through a battery of exams in committee. In preparation for meeting the committee, I took a written Church History exam. I also was expected to submit exegetical and theological papers. I had already submitted exegetical and theological papers to BOTH the OPC (for licensure) AND the PCA (for ordination). So now, I was asked a 3rd time for written work. I did alright on my Greek oral exam for committee, but they decided I should take the Hebrew written exam, just to be sure.

Let me just say, that I think the best method for handling these matters is to simply do whatever you are asked to do. It's their turf (and you want to join it) so it's their rules. So, take their steps. I put myself to the work I was asked for, passed my exams, and was no doubt improved by them, though it was stressful.

Let me also say, that I've seen men come into the Presbytery who were "weak" in something or other. I have yet to see a man denied reception or ordination. I have seen (in the PCA) a man from another PCA Presbytery put through TWO floor exams for reception to take a call. He didn't pass the first time. Men who have a language "weakness" or church history, or something else--I have seen them received, and continued under a program of remediation by the Candidates and Credentials committee, while they are installed and begin their call.

The main portion of the exam comes in committee. If he breezes through those, the theology exam on the floor of Presbytery (which is something a man can expect who is changing Presbyteries in the *same* denomination) should not be unsettling. The main reason for examining a man is: he probably is "unknown" to those who are going to be sharing their leadership with him, once he is one of them. After he's in, the only way to remove a bad-apple is with charges. And that's a lot harder row to hoe. If we just accept a man, because it's great to get another church and more people, we are playing favorites.

Bottom line: a man who is already in one denomination is already a sharer in the government of the same men to whom he's beginning closer fellowship. He's entitled to the expectation that the other Presbytery within the same larger jurisdiction has done the due diligence required. But a PCA Presbytery owes nothing (formally) to its OPC neighbors, and vice versa. The OPC BCO spells out the differences in transfers between its own Presbyteries, and between denominations. Those standards establish the general parameters for reception that Presbyteries then implement according to their best wisdom.


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