# God Punishes Us



## C. Matthew McMahon (Nov 24, 2004)

We know that God is looking out for our well being in everything, material and spiritual (Romans 8:28 et. al.)

Do you ever feel as though your wickedness is stopping the blessing? (It could be anything - work, spiritual food at church, ministry strength, etc).

How do you overcome that? What are some practical ideas from the Scripture?

Your thoughts?


----------



## Irishcat922 (Nov 24, 2004)

Psalm 103

1Bless the Lord, O my soul,
and all that is within me,
bless his holy name!
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul,
and forget not all his benefits,
3 who forgives all your iniquity,
who heals all your diseases,
4 who redeems your life from the pit,
who crowns you with steadfast love and mercy,
5 who satisfies you with good
so that your youth is renewed like the eagle's.

6 The Lord works righteousness
and justice for all who are oppressed.
7 He made known his ways to Moses,
his acts to the people of Israel.
8 The Lord is merciful and gracious,
slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love.
9 He will not always chide,
nor will he keep his anger forever.
10 He does not deal with us according to our sins,
nor repay us according to our iniquities.
11 For as high as the heavens are above the earth,
so great is his steadfast love toward those who fear him;
12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far does he remove our transgressions from us.
13 As a father shows compassion to his children,
so the Lord shows compassion to those who fear him.
14 For he knows our frame; [1]
he remembers that we are dust.

15 As for man, his days are like grass;
he flourishes like a flower of the field;
16 for the wind passes over it, and it is gone,
and its place knows it no more.
17 But the steadfast love of the Lord is from everlasting to everlasting on those who fear him,
and his righteousness to children's children,
18 to those who keep his covenant
and remember to do his commandments.
19 The Lord has established his throne in the heavens,
and his kingdom rules over all.

20 Bless the Lord, O you his angels,
you mighty ones who do his word,
obeying the voice of his word!
21 Bless the Lord, all his hosts,
his ministers, who do his will!
22 Bless the Lord, all his works,
in all places of his dominion.
Bless the Lord, O my soul!

Especially vs. 8,10,13,14


----------



## cupotea (Nov 24, 2004)

Matthew, I feel that way a lot. For whatever reason, this helps:

"He said, 'Abba, Father, for you all things are possible; remove this cup from me; yet, not what I want, but what you want.'" Mk 14:36

I know it's not quite the same (at all), but it does make me feel better.


----------



## pastorway (Nov 24, 2004)

Your thread title is all wrong. God does not punish His children. He punished Christ on the cross and now there is no condemnation for the believer (Rom 8:1). 

He does not punish, but He does discipline (Heb 12:3-17)! He corrects, rebukes, and trains. He chastens. But this is restorative and corrective - not punitive.

Phillip


----------



## SmokingFlax (Nov 24, 2004)

Punish...discipline...chastisement...whatever we want to call it...Yes, I feel like my wickedness is stopping God's blessing more often than perhaps is healthy. There have been stretches of time in my life when I literally felt cursed because of circumstances over which I had no control -even though I was never sure why.

I know it is an evil thing but in seasons such as (that) the last thing I want to do is praise God...if (I) don't I feel ungrateful and utterly reprobate, if (I) do I feel like the worst hypocrite -outwardly religious, inwardly miserable. It is a most fearful place to be.

Oh that I would be able to say that I too have learned to be content in whatsoever condition I find myself. As yet it remains a distant spiritual goal.


----------



## BobVigneault (Nov 24, 2004)

I have mentioned at times that I have two grown daughters who are not only in rebellion but actively are trying to destroy the reputation of their mother and I. It has hobbled my ministry and changed every aspect of our lives. Exactly one year ago my infant granddaughter was killed in a crash caused by the inattentive driving of the 'monster' that my daughter has been shacked up with - fellow who took advantage of my brain damaged girl. That only scratches the surface of the pain that we have endured in the last five years. These things have truly focused our theology.

I have prayed every prayer I can pray for my daughters and have seen more pain in return. I wake in the night feeling deep desparation. I sometimes get so depressed that I can't breath. 

Jim Jarantowski, one of our board brothers, introduced me to the Glory and Sovereignty of God about 5 years ago. We were both forced out of our arminian church for teaching the doctrines of grace and God's sovereignty but they have saved both my sanity and my life. It was not by chance that Jim was sent to my church. Here are some of the things I've learned.

In this life we are being transformed into the very image of Christ, our discipline from God never ends until the transformation is complete. So bring it on! God is good and He is just.

We struggle against American 'mainstream christianity' which is just repackaged psychology. If we are depressed then there must be something wrong spiritually. No! The bible names 'depression' (fallen countenance) and uses it for our transformation and doesn't try to cure it. God is Holy, we are sinners.

We are not to be results oriented, we are to be faithful to and driven by the Word. 

We do not struggle with our faith in God's purpose, we struggle with the possibility that 'matters of consequence' are beyond our control. We foolishly believe that we can make matters better if we follow certain formulas and the wisdom of man. We need to be constantly 'weened' away from self-dependence. 

There is a peace that passes understanding and it's a peace that we experience only after all self-dependence and human understanding fail.

What is done to us that is mean't for evil by men, God means for good and his plan cannot be thwarted.

Even if he slay me yet I will praise him.

Bottom line, no matter what happens to me whether done by God, angels or men, I have a redeemer and I will see him.


----------



## crhoades (Nov 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> I have prayed every prayer I can pray for my daughters and have seen more pain in return. I wake in the night feeling deep desparation. I sometimes get so depressed that I can't breath.



Hopefully this will be a bit of hope and encouragement for you. I was the same as your daughters. I know I kept my dad and mom up at nights praying tear filled prayers while I was out partying and doing every drug known to man etc. My dad left a bible in the front seat of my car one time when they visited. My heart was hardened not only to God but to my parents as well. 

But God....

God saved me in the middle of all of that and not only are my sins forgiven but I've been granted repentance unto my parents. That is on the heal and they now have their "baby" back. Take heart. Praying for you and your daughters. May God shower his grace on your situation.


----------



## BobVigneault (Nov 24, 2004)

Thank you Chris for the encouragement and you put your finger on two of the most encouraging words in all the scriptures.

"But God....", and another one powerful duo, "But now...."

Blessings to you


----------



## RamistThomist (Nov 24, 2004)

Roland Bainton's life of Luther, Here I Stand, as some good thoughts on this. I refer you to Luther's experience of the Anfectungen of his soul. I will post more in a few minutes.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> I have mentioned at times that I have two grown daughters who are not only in rebellion but actively are trying to destroy the reputation of their mother and I. It has hobbled my ministry and changed every aspect of our lives. Exactly one year ago my infant granddaughter was killed in a crash caused by the inattentive driving of the 'monster' that my daughter has been shacked up with - fellow who took advantage of my brain damaged girl. That only scratches the surface of the pain that we have endured in the last five years. These things have truly focused our theology.
> 
> I have prayed every prayer I can pray for my daughters and have seen more pain in return. I wake in the night feeling deep desparation. I sometimes get so depressed that I can't breath.
> ...



I am so sorry to hear these things, brother. I have experienced much grief in my family over matters faith so I can relate on a certain level. I appreciate your perspective on these powerful trials and the way that God uses them for good. May God comfort and uphold you and your wife as you look to Him for grace, wisdom and peace.


----------



## turmeric (Nov 24, 2004)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> Hopefully this will be a bit of hope and encouragement for you. I was the same as your daughters. I know I kept my dad and mom up at nights praying tear filled prayers while I was out partying and doing every drug known to man etc. My dad left a bible in the front seat of my car one time when they visited. My heart was hardened not only to God but to my parents as well.
> 
> But God....
> ...


----------



## BobVigneault (Nov 24, 2004)

I just remembered another important lesson I've learned - that it is too easy to miss the staggering abundance of God's mercy.

God's mercy is like hydrogen. It is so abundant that we overlook it completely. All it takes is one affliction and we forget that God's mercy is all around us. We stare it and dwell on the one affliction. God's mercy is renewed every morning. Things could always be so much worse. 

Even in times of discipline God's mercy is still flooding over and around us.

For many of us, even this board is a great source of God's mercy.

In response to Matt's original question, "Do you ever feel as though your wickedness is stopping the blessing?", my answer would be NO.

The suffering is the blessing. If by suffering I am being conformed into the image of Christ and all for the glory of God, then Lord, bless me with suffering.


----------



## just_grace (Nov 27, 2004)

Yes, for those who believe there is no condemnation....but He will and does discipline us. As to the extent....

God's will for us is to be saved not damned.

David


----------

