# Worship, Community, and the Triune God of Grace (James Torrance)



## RamistThomist (Nov 12, 2022)

Torrance, James B. _Worship, Community, & The Triune God of Grace_. Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsity Press, 1996.


James Torrance identifies Trinitarian worship as “our participation through the Spirit in the Son’s communion with the Father, in his vicarious life of worship and intercession” (Torrance 15). He also clarifies what his brother meant by Christ’s “vicarious humanity.” In his humanity Jesus brings our worship to the Father. (This echoes Thomas Torrance's article on Liturgical Apolllinarianism).

The first bad model is unitarianism, aka Protestant liberalism. What matters is my soul’s relationship with God. The second bad model is functional unitarianism, aka the Experience model. This can be seen in both Bultmann and modern evangelicalism. It looks good on the outside: God addresses man and man responds. What is missing is Christ. There is no place for Christ to lead our worship and present our prayers before the Father (29). As Torrance notes, “It ignores the fact that God has already provided that response which is alone acceptable to him.”

Finally is the Trinitarian model. It begins with God and the humanity “vicariously realized in Jesus Christ” and a relationship between Jesus and the Church (31). This understanding of worship allows us to perceive “a double movement of grace–(a) a God-humanward movement, from (ek) the Father, through (dia) the Son, in (en) the Spirit and (b) a human-Godward movement to the Father, through the Son in the Spirit” (32).

_Some Criticisms_

Torrance uses the language of perichoresis with regard to the Trinity. That’s not wrong, but it isn’t exactly how it was used in the early church. Perichoresis applied to the two natures.

Torrance never adequately developed his definition of person as a relational being. I agree with him. I also agree with him that Boethius’s definition is problematic. But Boethius’s definition has tremendous explanatory power. To overturn it your definition has to be just as persuasive.

_Conclusion_

Torrance has a fine appendix on names and metaphors for God. Granted that God is beyond sexuality and isn’t physically male, then why is “Mother” not acceptable? Doesn’t the Bible use motherly metaphors for God in the prophets? Torrance points out that the Bible uses similes for mother in the Bible, not metaphors. A simile is a weaker concept. Furthermore, Father isn’t a metaphor for God. It is God’s naming himself, which is a stronger reality.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## 83r17h (Nov 12, 2022)

I liked what he had to say in this book on baptism. 

What did you think of his idea that the Lord's Supper is the central event of worship? It's been a bit since I read it, but I think he mentioned it and then never seemed to really explain or argue for it. 

Who do you think provides a better discussion of "person as a relational being"?


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## RamistThomist (Nov 14, 2022)

83r17h said:


> I liked what he had to say in this book on baptism.
> 
> What did you think of his idea that the Lord's Supper is the central event of worship? It's been a bit since I read it, but I think he mentioned it and then never seemed to really explain or argue for it.
> 
> Who do you think provides a better discussion of "person as a relational being"?



Do you know on what page he said the Supper was the central event? I seemed to have missed that.


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## 83r17h (Nov 14, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> Do you know on what page he said the Supper was the central event? I seemed to have missed that.



I've got it on page 23, the paragraph that starts toward the bottom of the page. The first sentence: "Whereas the unitarian view is in reality destructive of the sacraments, the trinitarian view sees the Lord's Supper as the supreme expression of all worship."

On page 39, "This means that perhaps we are never more truly human than at the Lord's Table, when Christ draws us into his life of communion with the Father and into communion with one another."

I might be reading too much into what he's saying, since he doesn't really mention that theme during his section on the Lord's Supper, but it struck me at the time, and so I had marked the pages.


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## RamistThomist (Nov 14, 2022)

83r17h said:


> I've got it on page 23, the paragraph that starts toward the bottom of the page. The first sentence: "Whereas the unitarian view is in reality destructive of the sacraments, the trinitarian view sees the Lord's Supper as the supreme expression of all worship."
> 
> On page 39, "This means that perhaps we are never more truly human than at the Lord's Table, when Christ draws us into his life of communion with the Father and into communion with one another."
> 
> I might be reading too much into what he's saying, since he doesn't really mention that theme during his section on the Lord's Supper, but it struck me at the time, and so I had marked the pages.



Thanks.


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## RamistThomist (Nov 16, 2022)

Okay, I don't think he is trying to elevate the supper the same way most missional and liturgical guys do. I gather his point is that if the center of the Christian life is my personal religious experience, then you don't need the Supper to do that. Conservative pietism and unitarian liberalism are basically the same thing at that point. That's one of the reasons I hate pietism with all my heart.

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