# Piper's message to Obama on abortion



## mvdm (Jan 28, 2009)

Approximately 3 minute clip excerpt from a sermon. Would that more ministers have the clarity and courage to call abortion for what it is:

[video=youtube;iChgieH1TPc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iChgieH1TPc[/video]


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## DMcFadden (Jan 28, 2009)

Amen, Dr. Piper! Amen.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 28, 2009)

heard this on Wretched Radio, loved it!


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## Hamalas (Jan 28, 2009)




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## Michael Doyle (Jan 28, 2009)

God bless you John Piper for your courage to speak the truth.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 28, 2009)

'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'

That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.

Made me want to puke.


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## PresbyDane (Jan 28, 2009)




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## D. Paul (Jan 28, 2009)

I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?


btw, did Piper include himself when he said "There are those of us who wept for joy at your Inauguration"?


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## BJClark (Jan 28, 2009)

That should be directed to ALL of our elected officials NOT just the president..


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## fredtgreco (Jan 28, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> 'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'
> 
> That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.
> 
> Made me want to puke.



Well, Lawrence, at least one 'conservative Reformed man' thinks differently from that quote, and agrees with you:

Christ Church PCA Blog Archive Standing Firm for Life

-----Added 1/28/2009 at 05:02:18 EST-----



D. Paul said:


> I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?



Donald,

As I mentioned to my congregation last Sunday, read 2 Kings 10:28, and ask yourself if you were an Israelite after decades of Ahab rule, if you would have ever dreamed you would hear those words.

That is our hope for the scourge of abortion.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 28, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> 'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'
> 
> That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.
> 
> Made me want to puke.



It should make you want to puke. It is really sad how the R2K theology will not even stand up for the unborn.


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## reformedcop (Jan 28, 2009)

Amen to the content of this clip!! I too applaud John Piper for having the courage to put this out there. 

But, I have to say the timing is horrible! Obama made absolutely no bones about what what his first act as president would be when he was on the campaign trail. It would have been good to have this video circulating then.


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## Honor (Jan 28, 2009)

Dr. Piper is awesome.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 28, 2009)

Joshua said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > 'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'
> ...



It has been a political issue ever since Roe v. Wade. Or so we are told. The sad thing is that many in the church have drunk the Kool-Aid.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 28, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> > LawrenceU said:
> ...



It is an especially ridiculous accusation to make, given that Piper is not a political preacher.


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## No Longer A Libertine (Jan 28, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > Joshua said:
> ...


He also went out of his way to be gracious and submissive to Obama.


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## ManleyBeasley (Jan 28, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> 'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'
> 
> That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.
> 
> Made me want to puke.


Whoever made that comment should be ashamed of himself. To claim that abortion is merely a political issue is the rhetoric of the godless.


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## Craig (Jan 28, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> 'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'
> 
> That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.
> 
> Made me want to puke.



Hopefully that "man" blots out portions like this from his bible:



> Psalm 10:17-18
> 17 O LORD, You have heard the desire of the humble;
> You will strengthen their heart, You will incline Your ear
> 18 To vindicate the orphan and the oppressed,
> So that man who is of the earth will no longer cause terror.


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## swilson (Jan 28, 2009)

Love the clip; but wonder if it is fruitless to EXPECT the world to be anything but the world...to do anything outside of what its father, the devil, does or would do...

simply a thought...not a statement


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## fredtgreco (Jan 28, 2009)

swilson said:


> Love the clip; but wonder if it is fruitless to EXPECT the world to be anything but the world...to do anything outside of what its father, the devil, does or would do...
> 
> simply a thought...not a statement



The Lord can use anyone for His purposes. It is one reason why I think the Church needs more OT history in her preaching. 2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?


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## satz (Jan 28, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> 2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?



Sorry, I know this is completely off topic, but why do you say Jehu was unbeliever? He did not forsake the sins of idolarty, but he did seem to be a believer in Jehovah.


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## Ivan (Jan 28, 2009)

Preaching against killing children has *NOTHING* to do with politics! Preaching against maiming women who have abortions has _*NOTHING*_ to do with politics! It is those who *PROMOTE* abortion who are of the political bent. They use their political agenda for the most evil of purposes and the result is as horrible as all the death camps of the all dictators who sucked this earth of human life. 

And, no, I don't feel any better after my rant!


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## fredtgreco (Jan 28, 2009)

satz said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > 2 Kings 10 shows us that the unbelieving idolater Jehu was used by God to wipe out Baalism in Israel. Why could he not do that today?
> ...



The language is rather of political motivation than reality. Hosea 1:4 cites his sin of slaying the Judahites at Jezreel:


> And the LORD said to him, "Call his name Jezreel, for in just a little while I will punish the house of Jehu for the blood of Jezreel, and I will put an end to the kingdom of the house of Israel. (Hos 1:4 ESV)



And 2 Kings recounts more than the "standard" idolatry. No king of Israel who followed in the sins of Jeroboam is well spoken of. It is part and parcel of unbelief:



> But Jehu did not turn aside from the sins of Jeroboam the son of Nebat, which he made Israel to sin--that is, the golden calves that were in Bethel and in Dan. (2Ki 10:29 ESV)



But there is also this:


> But Jehu was not careful to walk in the law of the LORD, the God of Israel, with all his heart. He did not turn from the sins of Jeroboam, which he made Israel to sin. (2Ki 10:31 ESV)


for which he was judged:


> In those days the LORD began to cut off parts of Israel. Hazael defeated them throughout the territory of Israel: 33 from the Jordan eastward, all the land of Gilead, the Gadites, and the Reubenites, and the Manassites, from Aroer, which is by the Valley of the Arnon, that is, Gilead and Bashan. (2Ki 10:32-33 ESV)



It is true that Jehu did execute judgment upon Ahab's line and Israel for Baal worship. But so did Hazael.


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## Jesus is my friend (Jan 28, 2009)

Amen Dr. Piper,Lord give us all the boldness to "speak the Truth in love"


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## mvdm (Jan 28, 2009)

D. Paul said:


> I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?
> 
> 
> btw, did Piper include himself when he said "There are those of us who wept for joy at your Inauguration"?




I wondered that as well. He doesn't say who the _"those of us"_ is that he had in mind, and I would suggest that should be little reason to have rejoiced at this man's election. Nonetheless, Piper comes back to his point by directly confronting the magistrate on the abominable sin and praying for conversion.

-----Added 1/28/2009 at 08:51:50 EST-----



fredtgreco said:


> swilson said:
> 
> 
> > Love the clip; but wonder if it is fruitless to EXPECT the world to be anything but the world...to do anything outside of what its father, the devil, does or would do...
> ...



Amen. And by the power of the Spirit, this would be good antidote to the new fringe "reformed" dispensationalism of the radical 2k theology which leaves the kingdom of God confined to the edges of the church parking lot.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 28, 2009)

I'm glad to see a minister speaking up and out about things, rather than being fearful of "political talk" and "tax exemption"


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## fredtgreco (Jan 28, 2009)

mvdm said:


> D. Paul said:
> 
> 
> > I asked our small group Sunday night how 36 years have passed, we've had countless "Walks for Life" and "Right to Life" campaigns and yet this shame still lingers upon our nation. Does it seem that these Christian activities have been ineffective? Who needs another Walk for Life? Am I missing something?
> ...



I think it is possible to rejoice in the fact that the United States has gone so far beyond past racism that an African-American was elected President, without implying that we are blessed by the _person _of Barack Obama as President. 

To keep using my (ever present on the mind) analogy - we could rejoice in Jehu's purge of Baal, without being happy that he ended up as king.


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## sotzo (Jan 28, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> mvdm said:
> 
> 
> > D. Paul said:
> ...



Well put.


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## Grymir (Jan 29, 2009)

Jehu's Cool. There I've said it.

As to the OP - 

Joel 3:19 Egypt shall be a desolation, And Edom shall be a desolate wilderness; For the violence against the children of Judah, Because they have shed innocent blood in their land.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 29, 2009)

In re-reading this thread I thought I had better clear something up in one of my posts about abortion being political. I strongly disagree that abortion is primarily a political issue. It is first and foremost a moral issue before Almighty God. 

Actually every 'political' issue is a moral issue. Politics/Policy is merely the outworking of morals in the public/governmental sector. Christians would be wise to realise this and not allow the state to muzzle us by crying 'Politics!' at every turn where we would disagree based upon Scriptural grounds with the current emphasis. We would also be wise to use the term 'policy' in discussion. Politics can and usually should refer to the debate, cajoling, and dealing by the men involved in making policy.


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## LarryCook (Jan 29, 2009)

Acts 24:25
And as he reasoned of righteousness, temperance, and judgment to come, Felix trembled, and answered, Go thy way for this time; when I have a convenient season, I will call for thee.


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## AThornquist (Jan 29, 2009)

Go Pastor John. 

As to the "tears of joy," prior to the election Piper made it quite clear that abortion was the #1 voting issue for him, implying that he would vote McCain. Likewise, as Pastor Fred stated, there was joy in the prospect of having our first black president, but that was not the #1 issue.

So, I suppose John could have had joy for one but deep sorrow for the other.


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## puritanpilgrim (Jan 29, 2009)

Amen. Just pray they don't try to extend the fairness doctrine into churches.


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## Poimen (Jan 30, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> 'I just wish that Piper would not lower himself to bring politics into the pulpit. God deserves better.'
> 
> That is a quote from a 'conservative Reformed' man when he was commenting on this clip.
> 
> Made me want to puke.



Having watched the video I ask: is it possible that this could be a misunderstanding? Piper directly addresses the president in the video. Perhaps the author of this quote meant that he didn't like that kind of (perceived) posturing, instead of speaking out against or attacking abortion from the pulpit. 

P.S. I can't see the youtube video so I can't read the context of the statement.


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## ManleyBeasley (Jan 30, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> In re-reading this thread I thought I had better clear something up in one of my posts about abortion being political. I strongly disagree that abortion is primarily a political issue. It is first and foremost a moral issue before Almighty God.
> 
> Actually every 'political' issue is a moral issue. Politics/Policy is merely the outworking of morals in the public/governmental sector. Christians would be wise to realise this and not allow the state to muzzle us by crying 'Politics!' at every turn where we would disagree based upon Scriptural grounds with the current emphasis. We would also be wise to use the term 'policy' in discussion. Politics can and usually should refer to the debate, cajoling, and dealing by the men involved in making policy.


I know you don't brother. I was talking about the person you were quoting.


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## JBaldwin (Jan 30, 2009)

I have to make a point here that angers me every time I hear someone say "We should rejoice that we now have a black president." Race has not played a part in voting in this country for years. We've had plenty of black senators, representatives and members of the president's cabinet for a long time.

Thousands of conservatives voted for a black candidate, Alan Keyes, years ago when he ran for president, but no one noticed that. When these same conservatives (who voted for Keyes years ago) chose to vote against Obama this election cycle because of his liberal policies, they were called racist. Did the African American community vote for Keyes because he was black then? Of course not. 

Face it, one of the reasons why Obama got in office was because the media was screaming "racist" at everyone, and folks were scared to death not to vote for Obama lest they be considered racist. 

Frankly, I don't care if the president's skin is purple, and I believe that a large majority of folks in this country have felt that way for a long time. God allowed Obama to rise to the top, and I honor God's sovereignty over the affairs of men. I honor the office of president, no matter what color the president's skin is, but I am sick of people handing a white flag to the folks in this country who care more about skin color than they do about personal integrity. 

RANT OVER

-----Added 1/30/2009 at 02:03:19 EST-----

By the way, I, too, am thankful that Piper had the courage to speak out against abortion.


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