# Micro-Presbyterianism



## JM (Aug 13, 2008)

What is micro-presbyterianism?


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 13, 2008)

Church rule by small elders.

It was coined by Edwin Elliot I think? It simply refers to the last decade or so move toward setting up very small denominations that adhere to the Presbyterian form of church polity, as they understand it.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Aug 13, 2008)

"Micro-presbyterian" is a name for the Reformed groups that have sprung up over the last few years with 20 or fewer churches (I don't know if there's an exact definition of the numbers.) Generally, micro-churches have a reputation (sometimes founded, often not) of forming new associations over minor issues, such as paedocommunion, theonomy, or often personality issues.

Examples often cited as such: RPCGA, RPCUS, WPCUS, Covenant PC, Presbyterian Reformed, Providence National Presbytery, RPC Hanover, ERPC.


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 13, 2008)

What is Providence National Presbytery; new one to me.


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## JM (Aug 13, 2008)

Ahhhh....does PB reflect micro-presbyterianism or Reformed in general? Are the posters here micros or macros? [ lol ]


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 13, 2008)

Micros are represented but I would doubt they are disproportionately represented; but I haven't really made a head count. There are probably more registered PB members than there are members in micro Presbyterianism. ??


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## TimV (Aug 13, 2008)

> There are probably more registered PB members than there are members in micro Presbyterianism. ??



Very quick and very funny!


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## Kevin (Aug 13, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Micros are represented but I would doubt they are disproportionately represented; but I haven't really made a head count. There are probably more registered PB members than there are members in micro Presbyterianism. ??


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Aug 13, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> What is Providence National Presbytery; new one to me.



They have 3 churches at last count. They hold to paedocommunion. The pastor of the Florida church has preached at my old Florida church (which is PCA)


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 13, 2008)

jtate732 said:


> NaphtaliPress said:
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> > What is Providence National Presbytery; new one to me.
> ...


Is that the one Mickey Schneider is in?


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Aug 13, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> jtate732 said:
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 Correct.


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## Pilgrim (Aug 13, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> jtate732 said:
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> > NaphtaliPress said:
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I think it is.


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## N. Eshelman (Aug 13, 2008)

I prefer micro-brew to micro-pres any day!


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## Kevin (Aug 13, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I prefer micro-brew to micro-pres any day!




me too!


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## Marrow Man (Aug 13, 2008)

My wife and I attended a church last year that was part of the Covenant Presbyterian Church (they are no longer part of CPC; they left because they disagreed with paedo-communion). We also attend Joe Morecraft's church Chalcedon. Both of those would have to be classified as micro-presbyterian, which each being around a dozen or so churches.

If I make an analogy: mainline presbyterianism is like Budweiser (watered-down and not worth much), whereas micro-presbyterianism attempts to be like microbrews (a return to the basics after realizing nobody's making decent beer anymore!).


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## Marrow Man (Aug 13, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I prefer micro-brew to micro-pres any day!



Nathan stole my beer, er, thunder!!!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Aug 13, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I prefer micro-brew to micro-pres any day!


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## Staphlobob (Aug 14, 2008)

I'm micro-pres. ERPC. I love Machen and looked closely at the OPC, but I was concerned about the influence of Federalism and the NPP. So I settled on the ERPC. Just getting started, but I'm very happy with it. 

I like the comparison of micro-pres with micro-brews.


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## KenPierce (Aug 14, 2008)

The danger: wee churches tend to emphasize wee things...

Not always, but often!

And, too often they become mini-popedoms, built around one man.

I would give examples, but that would make too many people mad.


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## Mushroom (Aug 14, 2008)

It's an eschatological thing. When all possible combinations of the letters A, C, E, N, O, P, R, S, & U have been used, the Lord will return. I'm surprised you guys didn't know that.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Aug 14, 2008)

Brad said:


> It's an eschatological thing. When all possible combinations of the letters A, C, E, N, O, P, R, S, & U have been used, the Lord will return. I'm surprised you guys didn't know that.


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## CDM (Aug 14, 2008)

jtate732 said:


> *"Micro-presbyterian" is a name for the Reformed groups that have sprung up over the last few years with 20 or fewer churches (I don't know if there's an exact definition of the numbers.)* Generally, micro-churches have a reputation (sometimes founded, often not) of forming new associations over minor issues, such as paedocommunion, theonomy, or often personality issues.
> 
> Examples often cited as such: RPCGA, RPCUS, WPCUS, Covenant PC, *Presbyterian Reformed*, Providence National Presbytery, RPC Hanover, ERPC.



Are you referring to the Presbyterian Reformed Church? 

The PRC was organized in the 1960's, which, incidentally, the PRC came _before_ the PCA. But, there are fewer than 20 churches in the Presbytery.

So "micro" in size not in age.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 14, 2008)

Brad said:


> It's an eschatological thing. When all possible combinations of the letters A, C, E, N, O, P, R, S, & U have been used, the Lord will return. I'm surprised you guys didn't know that.





In seminary, I once proposed that we merge all presbyterian denominations into one, calling it something along the lines of ROPECUS -- the Reformed Orthodox Presbyterian Evangelical Church of the United States. It would be nicer if I could come up with a better acronym, but "rope cuss" does kind of role of the tongue.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Aug 14, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> Brad said:
> 
> 
> > It's an eschatological thing. When all possible combinations of the letters A, C, E, N, O, P, R, S, & U have been used, the Lord will return. I'm surprised you guys didn't know that.
> ...



Well, we still have a few that aren't used...

DPC, HPC (Heritage? Historic?), JPC, LPC, MPC (Missionary?), PPC (Protestant?), QPC, SPC (Southern?), TPC, VPC, XPC (emerging PC?), YPC, ZPC.

It'll be awhile before all the letter combinations are used. I read an old post once saying we should start acting like the Eastern Orthos and say "Holy Catholic Apostolic Reformed United Church of Christ of the Eastern Seaboard"


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## Marrow Man (Aug 14, 2008)

jtate732 said:


> Marrow Man said:
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Yeah, I once heard something similar about TV sitcoms: they would end only when all the trite sayings/expressions ("Who's the Boss?"; "Give Me a Break"; "One Day at a Time") were used up.


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## bookslover (Aug 23, 2008)

*A Whole New Category!*

I'm inspired by this discussion to start a whole new category. Instead of splitting off from my denomination (OPC) and starting a micro, I think I'll just split off from my presbytery and have a micro-presbytery within my OPC presbytery.

Are you ready? How about _The Presbytery of the North-Facing Side of My Living Room_"

Kinda catchy, I think...


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## jwithnell (Aug 24, 2008)

I'm definitely macro, especially after our congregational meals 

Seriously, I don't think it's easy to say that one is right and the other is wrong. The OPC was almost immediately challenged by Moody Bible Institute-type thinking, said "no" and lost many churches. It's effort to keep orthodox has more or less kept it small over the years, but hardly at the "micro" level of some of the groups already mentioned. The PCA has bred its own set of problems by being more inclusive, but larger.

When a denomination is small enough, it seems that "Presbyterian" is not the best term for the form of polity. Also, without using too broad a brush, it sometimes seems that smaller groups breed a contentiousness ... there are micro-Presbyterians out there with whom I share a great deal theologically, but would not embrace due to their lack of charitable character.


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