# RCC/Vatican is not only mixture of Paganisms, but truely the prophecied Whore of Babylon



## Ken S. (Mar 22, 2006)

see from the following flash slide shows:

http://www.remnantofgod.org/flash/whore/whore2.html

I'm shocked !
I heard a couple of times my senior Pastor mentioned that Roman Catholic church/ Vatican is the prophecied Babylon, but I thought that sounded just too crazy to say so, I almost laughed out. But now I can see his point.
Nothing is more identical with the prophecied *Whore of Babylon* than the Vatican does.

The show would take you about half an hour to finish watching.

[Edited on 22-3-2006 by Ken S.]

[Edited on 22-3-2006 by Ken S.]

[Edited on 22-3-2006 by Ken S.]

[Edited on 22-3-2006 by Ken S.]


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## sastark (Mar 22, 2006)

Ken, the belief that the bishop of Rome is the Whore of Babylon is the traditional Reformed view.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 22, 2006)




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## Ken S. (Mar 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> Ken, the belief that the bishop of Rome is the Whore of Babylon is the traditional Reformed view.



could you please show me all the evidences or testimonies made by our Reformed doctrines? It's important.

Many Chinese Christians has begun recognizing the value of Reformed theology, but a number of them still hold a rather "friendly" stance towards Catholicism and doubt or disagree with the idea that RC is heretic. I've been looking for those evidences for long time.

Moreover, how do you guys think about the Sunday Sabbath(as first day of 
week) as evolved from Paganism practices, later promoted by the Papal, instead 
of having Sabbath on the last day of the week mentioned in the final parts 
of the flash slide show?

[Edited on 22-3-2006 by Ken S.]

[Edited on 22-3-2006 by Ken S.]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ken S._
> could you please show me all the evidences or testimonies made by our Reformed doctrines? It's important.



The Westminster Confession (chap. 25) says it well:



> 6. There is no other Head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ:a nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense be head thereof; but is that Antichrist, that man of sin and son of perdition, that exalteth himself in the Church against Christ, and all that is called God.b
> 
> a. Eph 1:22; Col 1:18. "¢ b. Mat 23:8-10; 2 Thes 2:3-4, 8-9; Rev 13:6.



Also, here is an excerpt from Francis Turretin's Seventh Disputation: _Whether It Can Be Proven the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist_ (I recommend reading the whole book):



> It is the Common Opinion of Protestants that the Pope is the Antichrist
> 
> This is the united and unswerving opinion of Protestants which they themselves expressed in numerous confessions: The Helvetic Confession, Article 17; The Belgic Confession, Article 36; The Scotch Confession, established in the year 1581 in the assemblies of their kingdom, to which the Royal Majesty, his family and others have subscribed, as an example to all good men, to the glory of God; The Bohemian Confession, published in the year 1535, article 3; The Anglican Confession, in the year 1562, to which the Academies of Oxford and Cambridge publicly approve, together with the most learned bishops and theologians. Also, one who alone is the equal of them all, King James VI, in his apology for the Oath of Fidelity, and in his exhortation to the heads of state and princes. The French Churches have sufficiently testified to their belief regarding this topic, when, before the Vapincensi National Synod in the year 1604, an article was approved by unanimous consent, which was added to their Confession, declaring their thoughts in these words:
> 
> ...



Also see this thread.



> Moreover, how do you guys think about the Sunday Sabbath(as first day of week) as evolved from Paganism practices, later promoted by the Papal, instead of having Sabbath on the last day of the week mentioned in the final parts of the flash slide show?



The change of the Sabbath from the 7th day to the 1st day is Apostolic in origin, not Pagan and not Papal. I would suggest the materials found here, in particular A.A. Hodge's _Sabbath, The Day Changed: The Sabbath Preserved_.


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## tdowns (Mar 22, 2006)

*Interesting WebSite there.*

Cool slide show. What's the deal with the owners, 7th day Adventists????


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## Ken S. (Mar 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by tdowns007_
> Cool slide show. What's the deal with the owners, 7th day Adventists????



Adventist....ya, I also suspected. But anyway, most of the slides are great. Just a couple of slides out of the total 19 have to do with change of Sabbath


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## Ken S. (Mar 24, 2006)

I know now that the Pope can be proved to be the Anti-Christ, and how about the Beast?
I read a Chinese exegetic short article elaborating that the Pope is the Beast. Is that true? Is that Reformed?

By the way, thanks for the information! Really great!


And I'd also like to ask that, where can I download or read the book _Whether It Can Be Proven the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist_ online? 

[Edited on 24-3-2006 by Ken S.]

[Edited on 24-3-2006 by Ken S.]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ken S._
> And I'd also like to ask that, where can I download or read the book _Whether It Can Be Proven the Pope of Rome is the Antichrist_ online?
> 
> [Edited on 24-3-2006 by Ken S.]
> ...



Francis Turretin's treatise on the Antichrist can be read online here.


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## Ken S. (Mar 24, 2006)

hey see you again just in a seconds. So great!!!:bigsmile:

ya, actually i've just found out one online book:
http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/htm/catalogue/turretin.pdf

it's so great that people put these books online for free!!!!! How valuable they are!!

How about the saying that Pope is the Beast? Is that correct? Is that reformed?


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## RamistThomist (Mar 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ken S._
> hey see you again just in a seconds. So great!!!:bigsmile:
> 
> ya, actually i've just found out one online book:
> ...



But isn't the beast a political figure?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ken S._
> hey see you again just in a seconds. So great!!!:bigsmile:
> 
> ya, actually i've just found out one online book:
> ...



Yes, Turretin himself says: 



> We recognize these meanings because the coming of the Antichrist, properly so-called, was already told to the Church prophetically by the Holy Spirit, once by Paul in II Thess. 2, again by John in Revelation 13, 17 & 18 (sometimes under the figure of _Whore_, other times under the figure of _Beast_).



And Matthew Henry [William Tong] says (re Rev. 11.7): 



> 2. The enemy that should overcome and slay them--the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit. Antichrist, the great instrument of the devil, should make war against them, not only with the arms of subtle and sophistical learning, but chiefly with open force and violence; and God would permit his enemies to prevail against his witnesses for a time.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 24, 2006)

I am going to be the odd-ball out, with respect to my historicist friends (and they are friends), and say Nero was the Beast.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 28, 2006)

William Whitaker's treatise on the Papal Antichrist has also recently been translated from the 1583 Latin edition into English for the first time and is available here.


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## Theogenes (Mar 29, 2006)

Here's an essay by J. A. Wylie. Its excellent. AND he's Scottish!! 
Jim

http://www.aapi.co.uk/mansbacher/papacy.htm


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## Ken S. (Mar 29, 2006)

thanks Andrew and Jim!


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## Puritan Sailor (Mar 29, 2006)

> RCC/Vatican is not only mixture of Paganisms, but truely the prophecied Whore of Babylon



I'm only going to focus on the first part of the statement here. I think you need to remember that Rome's "mixture" with paganism is not an assimilation of paganism into the Roman system. Rather, their syncretism is their means of missions. They invade a culture, first by syncretizing the native religion, and making parallels to the native religions, but over time, they weed out the pagan stuff and replace it with full blown Romanism. The whole snare is to get you to submit to the Pope. After that, it's over. You belong to them. Over time, the native religion fades away, and then you are left with the Roman tradition. The Cardinals know exactly what they believe. They have their history, councils, and creeds memorized. They will not compromise that over the long haul. 

This strategy is also working in America too btw. Notice how "evangelical" most Catholic churches look and act. Notice the deliberate allowance in American Catholicism of tolerating Protestants and ecumenical ventures. This mostly only happens in America. Their just trying to suck all the Protestants back in by syncretizing. In most other regions of the world, Rome hates Protestants and does whatever it can to suppress them.

[Edited on 3-30-2006 by puritansailor]


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## Scott (Mar 30, 2006)

"The Cardinals know exactly what they believe. They have their history, councils, and creeds memorized."

Maybe some of them. But many are just Western relativists. The now-retired Arch-Bishop Rembert Weakland is an example.


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## Ken S. (Apr 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> 
> 
> > RCC/Vatican is not only mixture of Paganisms, but truely the prophecied Whore of Babylon
> ...



Your comment is very important and valuable, it is great insight, and thank you very much.

*It is known from the news the day before yesterday that the official negotiation has been carried out by Vatican and China on Sino-Vatican relation*. I found it a breaking news to me the moment I heard about it in TV, and it just sounded the thing is happening so fast, and so terrifying. 
Me and some Chinese Christians have already started discussing Sino-Vatican relation negotiation in the other forum. We will still need help from all of you, and I want to thank you, and others, once again.
*We must start praying on the issue*.


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## biblelighthouse (Apr 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> I am going to be the odd-ball out, with respect to my historicist friends (and they are friends), and say Nero was the Beast.






I agree, Jacob. Nero was the beast. The pope is not.

I think the reformers had powerful emotional and political reasons to think of the RCC and the pope as the beast . . . but not such good exegetical reasons.


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## Peter (Apr 1, 2006)

Which beast?

Realize that not only the Reformers identified the Papacy as central in the anti-christian system, but the post-reformers and most protestants up until well into the 19th century. Blanket charges of emotional blindness and lack of exegesis really discredit the author in light of monumental works such as Turretin's 7th disputation.


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## biblelighthouse (Apr 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> Which beast?
> 
> Realize that not only the Reformers identified the Papacy as central in the anti-christian system, but the post-reformers and most protestants up until well into the 19th century. Blanket charges of emotional blindness and lack of exegesis really discredit the author in light of monumental works such as Turretin's 7th disputation.



I never said there was "lack of exegesis". I just said that, in my personal opinion, the exegesis is not good.

I could be wrong, and I may change my mind. I don't have any theological degrees, and I don't claim expertise. 

All I'm saying is that after looking at partial preterism and historicism, I am much more convinced that Nero was the beast of Revelation, and that the Pope could not be the beast of Revelation. In other words, I am more impressed by the exegesis of Kenneth Gentry Jr. than by the exegesis of Luther. 

That doesn't mean that I'm right. It just means that is my current opinion.


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## Ken S. (Apr 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> 
> 
> > RCC/Vatican is not only mixture of Paganisms, but truely the prophecied Whore of Babylon
> ...




You insight is really great and genuine. I've already copied your comment to my home-forum, a China Christian forum.
I wish you could also write down some historical facts that helps to elaborate how RCC localized themselve when first arriving at a culture, and then gradually Romanize(foreignize and assimilate) the culture completely.


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