# Sabbath and Recreations: Objections to use of Isaiah 58



## Afterthought (Jan 22, 2016)

I've been refreshing my memory on the subject matter. There are a number of ways one can argue that recreations are not a proper activity for the Lord's day. However, Isaiah 58:13-14 is especially pertinent since it seems to speak so directly to the matter and is used as a proof text in our Standards. Some questions as I've been trying to think of objections to using this text for showing recreations are not allowed on the Lord's day.

1) How do we know that "thine own pleasure" refers to recreations? Some argue that it refers to business (I've read Lane Keister's piece on this), inherently sinful works, worldly employments, or worldly recreations ("worldly" in the sense of "worldliness;" hence, presupposing that some non-spiritual recreations are allowed)? Obviously, "thine own pleasures" seems broad enough to encompass all of these, but how do we know that it is being used in a broad manner rather than being restricted to one of these other things?

2) How do we know that the "sabbath" mentioned here refers to or applies to the moral sabbath? There were other sabbaths, and most of the chapter is on fasting, so the term "sabbath" may refer to one of the ceremonial sabbaths. So the reference might refer to a ceremonial sabbath, and it might not apply to the weekly moral sabbath (i.e., it requires further argumentation to say it applies to the weekly moral sabbath).

3) Supposing it refers or applies to the weekly moral sabbath, how is it evident that this was not part of a ceremonial way of keeping the weekly sabbath, and instead is part of the substance of the weekly moral sabbath?


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## jwithnell (Jan 22, 2016)

It is a creation ordinance. A day's rest in seven to commune with our Lord is built into the very fabric of creation.


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## MW (Jan 22, 2016)

John Willison has a meditation "On the Sabbath being a delight" which brings out the positives and thereby negates any argument for "worldly recreations" on the Lord's day. In other words, if we do the dos there is no place for the do-nots. If the Sabbath really is a delight as a day of rest from worldly employments then there will be no place for worldly recreations. The choice of recreations will be spiritual and holy because the spiritual and holy has taken hold of the soul and possessed it with delight.


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## Afterthought (Jan 22, 2016)

MW said:


> John Willison has a meditation "On the Sabbath being a delight" which brings out the positives and thereby negates any argument for "worldly recreations" on the Lord's day.


For those with access to Google Books, p. 303 here or p. 321 here.


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## Afterthought (Jan 22, 2016)

In regards to the OP, I want to answer 2) and 3) by saying the delight and blessing mentioned in Isaiah 58 is of such a spiritual nature, that even if the "sabbath" was referring to a part of the ceremonial law, this description here gets to the moral substance and core of the ceremonial law. The ceremonial worship system is a system of carnal ordinances, so anything with a spiritual nature and blessing must belong to the substance of the worship. In particular then, even if "sabbath" here in context refers to a ceremonial sabbath or fast (which apparently, only the day of atonement was a sabbath and a commanded fast?), this verse would also apply to the moral weekly sabbath. Even as, if the "fast" here refers to a ceremonial fast, the verses apply to our moral, providentially-called fasts. Thoughts?


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## Peairtach (Jan 22, 2016)

John Frame in his "Doctrine of the Christian Life" argues for some recreations on the Lord's Day on the basis of its being commanded to be a day of rest, with worship also being commanded to take place on that day. But he says the command itself speaks about resting, not worship.

He forgets that from the beginning it was a day of rest for the purposes of worship e.g. God sanctifies the Sabbath Day. The day is a holy rest.

It's clear from the Law that it was a day of special worship services and holy convocations. If work was to be eschewed for such worship then surely recreations. There's not a hint throughout the Bible that the Sabbath was viewed as a day suitable for recreations.

The day is a sign and reminder to the Israelites that God is the one who sanctified them. Positional and progressive sanctification are expressed and promoted by neither secular work nor secular play, but by Heavenly service and recreations. 

As a pointer to Heaven where even our work and recreations will be crowned by rest and worship, the Sabbath as the crown of the perfectly numbered week must be characterised by worshipful rest.

In practicalities, Frame gets entangled too, because as regards recreations he's thinking about things like a game of football/soccer in the back garden or a game of chess or Monopoly, that can be done without employing people, so he would eschew watching soccer on TV or chess on TV, not because of the this worldly orientated aspect of such recreations but because work is involved.

It seems clear that work is to be set aside because it is a this worldly-oriented occupation and the work/service of worship is to be taken up. Even a kick about in the garden or a game of chess is a this-worldly recreation/occupation and a Heavenly recreation should be sought instead in keeping with the day.

It would be difficult to communicate to children and others that a kick about in the garden or park is OK, when what the footballers are doing on the telly is sinful.

I'm not speaking to the question of whether there'll be chess, monopoly, football in Heaven, but if there are, they'll be in a completely different non-secular context of rest and worship, which is shadowed down here by having six days for work, rest, play, worship, and one special day of worshipful rest.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## au5t1n (Jan 22, 2016)

Even if the reference in the verse were to ordinary work, recreation would still be prohibited under the category of work. This is the way the wording of the Fourth Commandment itself prohibits recreations. The idea was not understood for the first time in the time of Isaiah. Recreations are subservient to labors; they serve to reinvigorate mind and body that they might be refreshed for a return to vigorous labor. Thus if labor is prohibited on the Sabbath, inferior and subservient recreations must be as well. If our society did not make recreation an end in itself rather than a service to labor, we would have an easier time understanding the Puritan position.

Some may wish to cavil that the rest of the Sabbath itself serves a partial purpose of giving a relief from work to reinvigorate mind and body for labor, and thus recreation would be a natural part of that. But this is to make it a worldly rest rather than a holy rest.


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## Afterthought (Jan 22, 2016)

au5t1n said:


> Recreations are subservient to labors; they serve to reinvigorate mind and body that they might be refreshed for a return to vigorous labor.


How might one respond to a person who believes recreation can be an end in itself?



au5t1n said:


> Some may wish to cavil that the rest of the Sabbath itself serves a partial purpose of giving a relief from work to reinvigorate mind and body for labor, and thus recreation would be a natural part of that. But this is to make it a worldly rest rather than a holy rest.


True. The recreations that are allowed on the Sabbath are "spiritual recreations." I wonder though whether the allowance for a nap or a walk (if indeed one is so worn out by the other 6 days/or maybe is ill/etc. that such become necessary in order to properly sanctify the remainder of the Sabbath) would allow one to argue for worldly recreations. Perhaps the simple matter is: that these are more "natural" recreations required by the body rather than "recreations" that are invented to bring carnal (as opposed to "spiritual;" not intending a negative connotation) pleasure.


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## au5t1n (Jan 22, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> au5t1n said:
> 
> 
> > Recreations are subservient to labors; they serve to reinvigorate mind and body that they might be refreshed for a return to vigorous labor.
> ...



From my limited reading, Puritans who addressed the matter at length usually acknowledged that such things might be lawful for some individuals that for health or other reasons may need them. They also cautioned that they were prone to abuse by those who do not really need them. I agree with you that they are natural refreshments for the body rather than necessarily recreations in their own right, if used to that end.


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## au5t1n (Jan 22, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> How might one respond to a person who believes recreation can be an end in itself?



This would essentially make it part of man's chief end to please himself.


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## bookslover (Jan 22, 2016)

Peairtach said:


> John Frame in his "Doctrine of the Christian Life" argues for some recreations on the Lord's Day on the basis of its being commanded to be a day of rest, with worship also being commanded to take place on that day. But he says the command itself speaks about resting, not worship.
> 
> He forgets that from the beginning it was a day of rest for the purposes of worship e.g. God sanctifies the Sabbath Day. The day is a holy rest.
> 
> ...



I hope there is chess in heaven because then I'll be smart enough to understand it!


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## MW (Jan 22, 2016)

bookslover said:


> I hope there is chess in heaven because then I'll be smart enough to understand it!



I would think you would be too smart for it.


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## Vox Oculi (Jan 22, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> There are a number of ways one can argue that recreations are not a proper activity for the Lord's day.



If a person would like to be extra holy on the Lord's day, why, I think they should go further, and be extra holy on all the days of the week, because God is the Lord of all 7 days, not just one! 

If recreation is not acceptable on the Lord's day, it should not be acceptable on any other day, because if recreation cannot be used to honor or glorify God, then any allowance for us to engage in it would be a condescension on the part of God to tolerate the passions of our sinful flesh, as people who cannot stop sinning until we are glorified. Why then would we insist on engaging in something on Monday through Saturday, which we know the Lord disapproves of and which does not glorify Him?

My non-satirical stance is that 'recreation' absolutely may be proper, if it honors the Lord, even on 'the Lord's day,' (as if the other days were not His). I understand the Lord's day to be a day set aside to be in fellowship with other Christians and study the Word together, at a minimum, and not as a day where we are to "act different", i.e. 'more holy' than on other days. So if something is permissible on other days, then it ought to be permissible on Sunday. If it is not permissible on Sunday, it ought not be done on any other days. 

Disagree?


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## MW (Jan 22, 2016)

Vox Oculi said:


> Disagree?[/SIZE][/FONT]



Your own Confession disagrees with you. Perhaps you should read what it says concerning the Sabbath day.


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## Vox Oculi (Jan 22, 2016)

Also, Jesus is our Sabbath Rest, and if anyone determines to make rules and instruct others to follow them, then I would caution them strongly against "teaching as doctrine the commandments of men." If we are not legalists, then why such an effort to determine obscure rules? The purpose in all things should be to do it with a heart of thanksgiving and praise to the Lord. When the reason for avoiding recreation is that it was forbidden to OT Jews, and not that "it takes my mind off of the Lord and I would rather meditate on His precepts continually," then I fear that the spirit of the inquiry is dangerously legalistic rather than love-oriented. 

If someone does experience a greater tendency to think on heavenly things when they follow certain strictures, that is great for them according to Romans 14 and Colossians 2. But let them tell others about how incorporating structure that mimics Mosaic symbolism into your life sets you free to cherish God more and be more devoted and less distracted in your worship. Don't tell others that 'this is better, because the Jews (world champions in missing the point) did this back when they followed the Law which God describes as enslavement...

Please think on this as you choose your preferences. Because to observe the sabbath is a preference. That is explicit from the text of Scripture.


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## Vox Oculi (Jan 22, 2016)

MW said:


> Vox Oculi said:
> 
> 
> > Disagree?
> ...



1689 LBC
22-6 "God is to be worshipped *everywhere *in spirit and in truth, whether in private families daily, *in secret by each individual*, or solemnly in the public assemblies."
22-8 "The Sabbath is kept holy to the Lord by those who, after the necessary preparation of their hearts and prior arranging of their common affairs, observe all day a holy rest from their *own* works, words and thoughts _about their worldly employment and recreations_, and give themselves over to the *public* _and _*private *acts of worship for the whole time, and to carrying out duties of necessity and mercy."

I don't see a disagreement between this and what I set forth above.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 22, 2016)

MW said:


> bookslover said:
> 
> 
> > I hope there is chess in heaven because then I'll be smart enough to understand it!
> ...



Touché (from one who is smart enough to know he is not smart enough for chess).


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## Afterthought (Jan 22, 2016)

Vox Oculi said:


> Disagree?


I would simply say: there is a Puritan and Presbyterian view of the Sabbath that I am assuming, which you do not seem to be aware of. Having been made aware of it, I would recommend looking into it (Thomas Boston and James Durham on the 4th commandment are good; Jonathan Edwards on the Morality and Perpetuity of the Sabbath; for a contemporary work, Pipa's work on the Lord's day; Robert Shaw's exposition of the Westminster Confession; Rev. Mark Koller has a sermon series on the matter; James MacGregor's The Sabbath Question) or starting your own thread on it. I would ordinarily love to take up a conversation on the matter--even just to have practice discussing it, but I have limited time now (this sort of conversation can take a while to sort itself out), and I am likely to be having a conversation on this matter in the near future with someone, so I do not wish to weary myself too early. Hopefully others can take you up on this.


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## Vox Oculi (Jan 22, 2016)

MW said:


> Vox Oculi said:
> 
> 
> > Disagree?
> ...



Given my language, I presume you took my reference of 'more holy' to be toward the day, but in that case I want to emphasize that it is directed toward the individuals. The day may be holy -- holy meaning separate, set apart -- but that does not mean that believers should put on what is effectively a pretense of acting more holy, by totally changing their behavior for one day out of the week and disregarding the supposed solemnness with which they worshiped on Sunday throughout the workweek. I emphasize the private aspects of the LBC's sections on the Sabbath because it is evident that worship is not only what you do on a certain place, at a certain time, in a certain setting, but something you ought to do all the time, and therefore, ought not be lessened intentionally during the week, lest that be a sorry testimony to our rigid rule-following and lack of life and joy in our spirits to serve the Lord.


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## JimmyH (Jan 22, 2016)

I am reminded of a tape I heard of Donald Grey Barnhouse where he said if someone offered him a shot of whiskey he did not have to think about it. He simply said to himself, "Holy Spirit, would you like a slug of liquor ?" 

Applying that question to ones self when they are wondering how to observe the Lord's Day might answer the question.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 22, 2016)

Vox Oculi said:


> 1689 LBC
> 22-6 "God is to be worshipped everywhere in spirit and in truth, whether in private families daily, in secret by each individual, or solemnly in the public assemblies."
> 22-8 "The Sabbath is kept holy to the Lord by those who, after the necessary preparation of their hearts and prior arranging of their common affairs, observe all day a holy rest from their own works, words and thoughts about their worldly employment and recreations, and give themselves over to the public and private acts of worship for the whole time, and to carrying out duties of necessity and mercy."
> 
> I don't see a disagreement between this and what I set forth above.



I suggest you look harder and be very careful about calling the confessional position that of a "legalist."

If the Sabbath is to be kept holy, than it is different from the other days, contrary to what you said here:



Vox Oculi said:


> If a person would like to be extra holy on the Lord's day, why, I think they should go further, and be extra holy on all the days of the week, because God is the Lord of all 7 days, not just one!
> 
> If recreation is not acceptable on the Lord's day, it should not be acceptable on any other day, because if recreation cannot be used to honor or glorify God, then any allowance for us to engage in it would be a condescension on the part of God to tolerate the passions of our sinful flesh, as people who cannot stop sinning until we are glorified. Why then would we insist on engaging in something on Monday through Saturday, which we know the Lord disapproves of and which does not glorify Him?



You gave us a suggestion against "teaching as doctrine the commandments of men." Let me gave a different suggestion: that you study up on what the confession means regarding the Sabbath before advocating against it.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 22, 2016)

MW said:


> John Willison has a meditation "On the Sabbath being a delight" which brings out the positives and thereby negates any argument for "worldly recreations" on the Lord's day. In other words, if we do the dos there is no place for the do-nots. If the Sabbath really is a delight as a day of rest from worldly employments then there will be no place for worldly recreations. The choice of recreations will be spiritual and holy because the spiritual and holy has taken hold of the soul and possessed it with delight.



Very well said.

I've put it in a more homely fashion before: "if you keep your eyes on the road, you don't need to worry about hitting the guardrails. The guardrails are there to protect you if you find yourself drifting."

The road, of course, is focusing on the worship of God and mediation on what he has done and is doing--including all the good works that are associated with that.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 22, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> MW said:
> 
> 
> > John Willison has a meditation "On the Sabbath being a delight" which brings out the positives and thereby negates any argument for "worldly recreations" on the Lord's day.
> ...



Another book for my digital library. Thanks for the link.


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## MW (Jan 22, 2016)

VictorBravo said:


> Touché (from one who is smart enough to know he is not smart enough for chess).



Vic, I'm no good at it either, unless I am playing with the children.  But I do know it is child's play compared with the glories and delights of heaven.

Good illustration on the rails and the road. I might borrow that one some time.


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## ZackF (Jan 22, 2016)

Peairtach said:


> I'm not speaking to the question of whether there'll be chess, monopoly, football in Heaven, but if there are, they'll be in a completely different non-secular context of rest and worship, which is shadowed down here by having six days for work, rest, play, worship, and one special day of worshipful rest.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2



Games, sports in Heaven? I wouldn't think our glorified selves would need referees anyway.


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## ZackF (Jan 22, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> I've been refreshing my memory on the subject matter. There are a number of ways one can argue that recreations are not a proper activity for the Lord's day. However, Isaiah 58:13-14 is especially pertinent since it seems to speak so directly to the matter and is used as a proof text in our Standards. Some questions as I've been trying to think of objections to using this text for showing recreations are not allowed on the Lord's day.
> 
> 1) How do we know that "thine own pleasure" refers to recreations? Some argue that it refers to business (I've read Lane Keister's piece on this), inherently sinful works, worldly employments, or worldly recreations ("worldly" in the sense of "worldliness;" hence, presupposing that some non-spiritual recreations are allowed)? Obviously, "thine own pleasures" seems broad enough to encompass all of these, but how do we know that it is being used in a broad manner rather than being restricted to one of these other things?
> 
> ...



As my knowledge and application of the Bible's teachings on Sabbath increases I find it changes everything about the rest of the week. The Lord's Day rightfully becomes the weekly high point rather than an appendage to bolt on.


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## Cymro (Jan 23, 2016)

To rest in Christ on a day set apart from the normal intrusions of the week, is to have a God given opportunity to devotedly delight in Him. In which the soul monopolises ones activities and regains perspectives. Work and recreation dominate most of our lives,and so there is a spiritual necessity to "come ye apart" and rejoice in a totally spiritual ambience. But not only for our benefit, but to worship and adore the lover of our souls with the "great congregation", which itself is a harbinger of the eternal employment in the great assembly above. At present my mind is labouring with,"delight thyself in the Lord", and one facet of of that is Delighting in Him on the Lord'day. Isaiah 58 is transparent,"if thou turn away thy foot from the Sabath, from doing THY PLEASURE, NOT DOING THINE OWN WAYS, NOR FINDING THINE OWN PLEASURE."


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## earl40 (Jan 23, 2016)

VictorBravo said:


> I've put it in a more homely fashion before: "if you keep your eyes on the road, you don't need to worry about hitting the guardrails. The guardrails are there to protect you if you find yourself drifting."
> 
> The road, of course, is focusing on the worship of God and mediation on what he has done and is doing--including all the good works that are associated with that.



This post below of yours stuck me like a bolt of lightning that has help me to no end in my pursuit of the 4th commandment though I fall oh so short of doing such.  The "guardrails" still scratch the side of my car often and I suspect I will leave a lot of paint on them till the day I arrive in glory though I am becoming a better driver when I concentrate on the "road".

"The Lord's day is a burden if we devote our focus to what we can't do. In that case, we are drawn down to the physical equivalent of not scratching itches, as it were. But if our focus is on the Lord of the Sabbath, and on the freedom he gives, and the destination to which he is taking us, the yoke is easy."


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## TheOldCourse (Jan 24, 2016)

Vox Oculi said:


> MW said:
> 
> 
> > Vox Oculi said:
> ...



Can you, with a view toward the duties of the ninth commandment, interpret a confessional document in such a way as to support a position which is diametrically contrary to the intention of its authors? Even if you disagree with it, a humble study and acknowledgement of the historical distinctions and theology referred to in those words seems appropriate before you discourse at length on it.


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## Peairtach (Jan 24, 2016)

Cymro said:


> To rest in Christ on a day set apart from the normal intrusions of the week, is to have a God given opportunity to devotedly delight in Him. In which the soul monopolises ones activities and regains perspectives. Work and recreation dominate most of our lives,and so there is a spiritual necessity to "come ye apart" and rejoice in a totally spiritual ambience. But not only for our benefit, but to worship and adore the lover of our souls with the "great congregation", which itself is a harbinger of the eternal employment in the great assembly above. At present my mind is labouring with,"delight thyself in the Lord", and one facet of of that is Delighting in Him on the Lord'day. Isaiah 58 is transparent,"if thou turn away thy foot from the Sabath, from doing THY PLEASURE, NOT DOING THINE OWN WAYS, NOR FINDING THINE OWN PLEASURE."



This is it. We are to eschew secular work on the Lord's Day that our hearts and minds might have leisure to fly heavenward and enjoy a foretaste of the heavenly rest.

But where would be the logic in doing that and yet pursuing secular recreations and entertainments and yet believing that the purposes of the day would not be marred or broken up by these or that our hearts and minds could be taken up by these and yet that that leisure to fly heavenwsrd not be ruined.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 24, 2016)

"But it may be said, that men's minds being burdened, and oppressed with the former service of the day, therefore some relaxation is to be granted for the refreshing of our spirits; as much as to say, a part of the Lord's Day is to be allowed for profane sports and pastimes, to refresh us after we have been tired out with serving God. Can this be savory in the ears of a Christian?" William Twisse, _Morality of the Fourth Commandment, _1641.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 24, 2016)

Here is how the fourth commandment has been rewritten in our day: "Remember the LORD's hour to keep it holy. Six days you shall labour and do all your work, but the [first] is a Sabbath to yourself and one hour to the LORD your God."

A side-effect of the view that the Sabbath is a day for our recreation is habitual non-attendance (usually) at evening services. After all, if you can glorify God on the Sabbath by watching sports and so on, then why bother going to church? Truth be told, this issue really is not difficult. We are told to keep the Sabbath holy; we are not told to keep it common. Recreations (within reason) are fine on any other day, as they are part of the common realm of life. However, they have no place on God's holy day, as it is a day set apart primarily for God and his worship.


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## brendanchatt (Jan 24, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> Even as, if the "fast" here refers to a ceremonial fast, the verses apply to our moral, providentially-called fasts. Thoughts?



"Fast" in the context could refer to a fast called for providence's sake by OT Israel at that time. Isn't that true?


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## alexandermsmith (Jan 25, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> I've been refreshing my memory on the subject matter. There are a number of ways one can argue that recreations are not a proper activity for the Lord's day. However, Isaiah 58:13-14 is especially pertinent since it seems to speak so directly to the matter and is used as a proof text in our Standards. Some questions as I've been trying to think of objections to using this text for showing recreations are not allowed on the Lord's day.
> 
> 1) How do we know that "thine own pleasure" refers to recreations? Some argue that it refers to business (I've read Lane Keister's piece on this), inherently sinful works, worldly employments, or worldly recreations ("worldly" in the sense of "worldliness;" hence, presupposing that some non-spiritual recreations are allowed)? Obviously, "thine own pleasures" seems broad enough to encompass all of these, but how do we know that it is being used in a broad manner rather than being restricted to one of these other things?
> 
> ...



Ryan McGraw's "The Day of Worship" would be a good book for you to read. He spends two chapters specifically on the Isaiah text (including dealing with the fasting context). With a couple of small reservations I heartily recommend this work.

TheOldCourse,

I don't really see how Vox Oculi's total misunderstanding of the LBC is a 9th commandment issue. People are far too trigger happy with the 9th commandment nowadays.


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## Afterthought (Jan 25, 2016)

brendanchatt said:


> "Fast" in the context could refer to a fast called for providence's sake by OT Israel at that time. Isn't that true?


Yes, I think that's a possibility. It's mostly if one connects the "sabbath" to the "fast" that one starts getting the ceremonial idea, I think. However, could be my memory is off, I recall commentators thinking the fast was ceremonial while the sabbath was not.



alexandermsmith said:


> Ryan McGraw's "The Day of Worship" would be a good book for you to read. He spends two chapters specifically on the Isaiah text (including dealing with the fasting context). With a couple of small reservations I heartily recommend this work.


Excellent! I will look into it, thank you.


Other possibilities for the meaning of pleasure:

1) Sinful works, in particular hypocrisy, which is derived from connecting this idea to "pleasure" mentioned in the fast and in Isaiah 56 (I think this is/is similar to Dr. Gonzales' view).
2) Business, seeing a connection with Nehemiah


Other defenses of recreations on the Sabbath:
3) What if recreation is used to refresh the body, since it is a day of rest? (somewhat in accord with Frame; who I think takes the meaning of "Sabbath" and says rest is the end of the day, not a means to an end.)
4) What if one says one wishes to spend the day enjoying God's creation and so delight in the Lord that way? And in enjoying God's creation, one feels refreshed and delights in the Lord (hence arguing that not all non-spiritual recreations lead the mind away from heaven).
5) We do recreations anyway to help us towards spiritual duties, like napping, so moderate recreations are actually necessary for spiritual duties.



Thoughts? I have some of my own, but it is helpful to hear thoughts from others, as always.


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## Peairtach (Jan 25, 2016)

> 4) What if one says one wishes to spend the day enjoying God's creation and so delight in the Lord that way? And in enjoying God's creation, one feels refreshed and delights in the Lord (hence arguing that not all non-spiritual recreations lead the mind away from heaven).



I don't see anything wrong in going outside and enjoying your garden or the countryside on the Lord's Day, with picnic, bottle of beer/ginger beer and good Christian literature. You aren't necessarily observing the Sabbath better in your house or outside of it.

God's people are enjoying the fulfillment of this prophecy, in measure:



> It shall come to pass in the latter days........
> 
> but they shall sit every man under his vine and under his fig tree,
> and no one shall make them afraid,
> for the mouth of the Lord of hosts has spoken. (Micah 1a, 4)



If it involves a lot of labour and travel to get to your secluded woodland spot, or whatever, and the day is severely broken up by the effort, you might decide that it is more in keeping with the spirit and letter of the day to remain at home.


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## Afterthought (Jan 25, 2016)

Peairtach said:


> I don't see anything wrong in going outside and enjoying your garden or the countryside on the Lord's Day, with picnic, bottle of beer/ginger beer and good Christian literature. You aren't necessarily observing the Sabbath better in your house or outside of it.


This isn't what the proponent of recreation is saying though. They are talking about going out to enjoy God's creation, period. It is not about a location to do one's devotions, but an enjoyment of the created world itself.


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## Tyrese (Jan 25, 2016)

I think one of the reasons the Lord's day Sabbath is being jettisoned by so many Christians today is because there's an over emphasis on this one commandment over the other 9. I for one believe that the Sabbath is to be kept holy, but not at the risk of loosing sight of what it means to be holy all of my days. The Bible says "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14). I believe keeping the Sabbath is apart of being holy, however it's so much more. When you have Reformed Christians treating other days as if they have no significance at all, and completely throwing out and redefining verses like Romans 12:1, "...Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God", teaching that only the stated meetings of the Church is worship, people simply are not going to be convinced about what's permissible and what is not on the Lords day. There's some men out there who are zealous for the Lords day, but have absolutely no regard for practical holiness.


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## alexandermsmith (Jan 25, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> brendanchatt said:
> 
> 
> > "Fast" in the context could refer to a fast called for providence's sake by OT Israel at that time. Isn't that true?
> ...



Just as a very brief summary of McGraw's understanding of that chapter in Isaiah: McGraw draws the relation between the discussion of fasting and the Sabbath to be in principles of right worship, rather than a ceremonial/moral distinction/discussion.

My answers to the following points shouldn't be taken as being directed towards you, but merely as my thoughts on the points you raise. Apologies if they come across accusatory.



Afterthought said:


> Other possibilities for the meaning of pleasure:
> 
> 1) Sinful works, in particular hypocrisy, which is derived from connecting this idea to "pleasure" mentioned in the fast and in Isaiah 56 (I think this is/is similar to Dr. Gonzales' view).



Sinful works are already prohibited so it would seem strange to issue a prohibition of such works specifically for the Sabbath.



Afterthought said:


> 2) Business, seeing a connection with Nehemiah



I would argue that the Isaiah passage has a far wider scope than the passage in Nehemiah. Also, is "thy[my] pleasure" a natural- or common- way of referring to our employment? I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to their work in this way. That's not to say that many people don't find their work pleasurable- or making profit pleasurable- but I think pleasure is more naturally understood as a recreation. I think whenever people use the term pleasure to describe an actvity they are referring to a recreation or past time. Or if one is referred to as a "pleasure seeker", it's not to say that they are a seeker of pleasure in employment but in (usually dubious if not immoral) recreations. Maybe in the 17th century pleasure was a synonym for employment, but since that's not how the divines understood the term I would be highly doubtful.

The further activities mentioned in the verse would back this up: "not doing thine own ways", "thine own pleasure", "thine own words". Is employment really all that is in view here? Also, in our employment, most of us don't do "our own" ways or speak "our own" words: most of us are working for someone else, pursuing their ways and often speaking their words. These clauses clearly have in mind independent pursuits and conversations, which are most naturally understood as recreations, and saying that such pursuits are not suitable for the Sabbath.




Afterthought said:


> Other defenses of recreations on the Sabbath:
> 3) What if recreation is used to refresh the body, since it is a day of rest? (somewhat in accord with Frame; who I think takes the meaning of "Sabbath" and says rest is the end of the day, not a means to an end.)



Well, we sleep before the Sabbath. If sleep is enough to refresh the body for our employments throughout the week it should be enough to refresh our bodies for the duties of the Sabbath, which are mostly spiritual rather than physical. Would playing a game of football or going for a run not tire you out? That's not to mention the fact that these things are distractions from the purpose of the day rather than an aid to it. Also, we have Saturday to rest ourselves physically. I understand that in today's society a lot of people work Saturdays, but I would think most people who work don't and even then, cultural norms don't condition God's laws.



Afterthought said:


> 4) What if one says one wishes to spend the day enjoying God's creation and so delight in the Lord that way? And in enjoying God's creation, one feels refreshed and delights in the Lord (hence arguing that not all non-spiritual recreations lead the mind away from heaven).



Again I would say one has 6 days of the week to enjoy God's creation. The purpose of the Sabbath is to worship God: that is how one is meant to delight in Him. It's not a general delighting in God, which can and should be done always. It's a specific delighting in God in the public and private exercises of worship; in spiritual conversation and meditation and fellowship, which things God has promised to bless particularly on the Sabbath. Adam and Eve were given a Sabbath and their employment was to tend to the Garden, i.e. they would have been delighting in God's Creation in their very employment, but they were still commanded to cease on the Sabbath and turn their attention to God in a particular way, i.e. worship.



Afterthought said:


> 5) We do recreations anyway to help us towards spiritual duties, like napping, so moderate recreations are actually necessary for spiritual duties.



I would argue that the sleep we do from Saturday to Sabbath morning, for example, is a work of necessity: our bodies need sleep. Eating, too, would be a work of necessity. I wouldn't class these as recreations. Napping can be very beneficial, but often- and I speak from my own experience- napping can turn into sleeping the afternoon away. We must be careful we don't abuse it.


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## alexandermsmith (Jan 25, 2016)

Tyrese said:


> I think one of the reasons the Lord's day Sabbath is being jettisoned by so many Christians today is because there's an over emphasis on this one commandment over the other 9. I for one believe that the Sabbath is to be kept holy, but not at the risk of loosing sight of what it means to be holy all of my days. The Bible says "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14). I believe keeping the Sabbath is apart of being holy, however it's so much more. When you have Reformed Christians treating other days as if they have no significance at all, and completely throwing out and redefining verses like Romans 12:1, "...Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God", teaching that only the stated meetings of the Church is worship, people simply are not going to be convinced about what's permissible and what is not on the Lords day. There's some men out there who are zealous for the Lords day, but have absolutely no regard for practical holiness.



I think you're exactly right in the point you make about certain men in the Reformed camp, whose concept of holiness and sanctification is almost non-existent. However, I think the main reason the 4th commandment has fallen out of favour is that its definition of holiness is God-centred, whereas the church at large is far more interested in a man-centred approach to holiness. This is a result of the substituting of moralism for true Gospel godliness.


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## greenbaggins (Jan 25, 2016)

Tyrese said:


> I think one of the reasons the Lord's day Sabbath is being jettisoned by so many Christians today is because there's an over emphasis on this one commandment over the other 9. I for one believe that the Sabbath is to be kept holy, but not at the risk of loosing sight of what it means to be holy all of my days. The Bible says "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14). I believe keeping the Sabbath is apart of being holy, however it's so much more. When you have Reformed Christians treating other days as if they have no significance at all, and completely throwing out and redefining verses like Romans 12:1, "...Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God", teaching that only the stated meetings of the Church is worship, people simply are not going to be convinced about what's permissible and what is not on the Lords day. There's some men out there who are zealous for the Lords day, but have absolutely no regard for practical holiness.



While this is true to a certain extent, I think there is a reason why the Reformed world has emphasized this commandment so much: it is the one commandment that is probably the most abused, and today most ignored. Furthermore, I would want to point readers to Vos's extraordinary insightfulness on connecting the Sabbath with the covenant in his _Biblical Theology_. The covenant of works was an embodiment of the OT sabbatical principle: the work comes first, then the rest. The covenant of grace is an embodiment of the NT sabbatical principle: the rest comes first before the work. Sabbath, therefore, is about a LOT more than just how we structure our weekly activities. The Sabbath is about salvation itself, and how we understand grace and works, not to mention our eschatology. The Sabbath has profound redemptive-historical ramifications. 

Vox Oculi, if your position is correct, then we shouldn't work on the days of the week either, since that is forbidden by the commandment. Is there no room in your theology for something that is good at one time but NOT good at another time? Is it not wisdom to know that there is a time for everything (Ecclesiastes 3)? All morally good things can be done for God's glory, but not even all of those can be done at all times to the glory of God. Work can be done to the glory of God during the week, but not on the Sabbath.


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## alexandermsmith (Jan 25, 2016)

Peairtach said:


> > 4) What if one says one wishes to spend the day enjoying God's creation and so delight in the Lord that way? And in enjoying God's creation, one feels refreshed and delights in the Lord (hence arguing that not all non-spiritual recreations lead the mind away from heaven).
> 
> 
> 
> I don't see anything wrong in going outside and enjoying your garden or the countryside on the Lord's Day, with picnic, bottle of beer/ginger beer and good Christian literature. You aren't necessarily observing the Sabbath better in your house or outside of it.



Well, Isaiah also tells us to "turn away thy foot from the Sabbath". I think this is most naturally understood- and, indeed, is how it was understood- as not trampling the Sabbath, which includes unnecessary walks or excursions. One must travel to church to get there; their is no necessity to go for a recreational walk. I think, also, there are more possible distractions outside the home than inside. Boston, I believe, said the safest thing to do on the Sabbath was to stay in one's own home (other than going to the means of grace, obviously). I think going to the homes of those we have been in the public means with, for fellowship, is legitimate, but that's at least on the same side as Boston. I think, if I'm correct, this is also how the Jews would have understood Sabbath keeping: staying indoors except to go to the synagogue.

I do also wonder at the calls for the right to go for walks on the Sabbath. I wonder how many people who seem so jealous of going for walks on the Sabbath go for walks on the other days of the week. I'm not saying this applies to you, but just that it sometimes sounds like special pleading. Some people have a tendency to use the Sabbath as a day onto which to "dump" all their spiritual duties, so they can spend the rest of the week doing things they'd rather do. If people fill their week up with activities that they find they are exhausted come Sabbath- even after a Saturday off work (possibly filled with even more activities) that doesn't mean they can treat the Sabbath as the day to recover, the way students treat it as the day to recover from a weekend of drinking. One should rest and refresh oneself _for_ the Sabbath rather than treat it as the day to recuperate from a week of over-indulgence.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cymro (Jan 25, 2016)

Some 40yrs,or more,I was in fellowship with one of the old type FreeChurch Ministers in his manse. He was asking me how we managed as a family having the church of about 40 meeting in our home. It entailed a Friday night prayer meeting,two worship services on the sabbath, and the moving of funiture to bring in stacking chairs from the garage. He asked how did our three young children cope being housebound during the services. I replied that on the Sabbath between meetings I would take them to stroll along the side of mountain just in front of the house. His tender and wise response was don't you think creation needs a rest upon the Lord's day. I had never thought in that way about the Sabbath.He thought it was recreation, rather than a necessity of having to walk to the house of God. To a degree I have held that position but it is something that is a matter of conscience.


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## Tyrese (Jan 25, 2016)

greenbaggins said:


> Tyrese said:
> 
> 
> > I think one of the reasons the Lord's day Sabbath is being jettisoned by so many Christians today is because there's an over emphasis on this one commandment over the other 9. I for one believe that the Sabbath is to be kept holy, but not at the risk of loosing sight of what it means to be holy all of my days. The Bible says "Pursue peace with all people, and holiness, without which no one will see the Lord" (Hebrews 12:14). I believe keeping the Sabbath is apart of being holy, however it's so much more. When you have Reformed Christians treating other days as if they have no significance at all, and completely throwing out and redefining verses like Romans 12:1, "...Present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God", teaching that only the stated meetings of the Church is worship, people simply are not going to be convinced about what's permissible and what is not on the Lords day. There's some men out there who are zealous for the Lords day, but have absolutely no regard for practical holiness.
> ...



The Sabbath is the most abused and ignored commandment? With all the sin that's rampant in the world and in the Church I'm not sure I'm ready to say that the Sabbath is the most abused commandment. I'll let the Lord determine that one for me. In fact I'm content with not knowing the details. Our God knows everything and we can all have confidence that He will glorify Himself in the end.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 25, 2016)

In Presbyterian circles which is all many of us can speak to, whose standards still own it, it is certainly fallen on hard times more than any of the other commands as a general category. Second commandment is a close second.


Tyrese said:


> The Sabbath is the most abused and ignored commandment?


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## Tyrese (Jan 25, 2016)

NaphtaliPress said:


> In Presbyterian circles which is all many of us can speak to, whose standards still own it, it is certainly fallen on hard times more than any of the other commands as a general category. Second commandment is a close second.
> 
> 
> Tyrese said:
> ...



I see. To be clear I'm not saying the fourth commandment is not ignored. I'm just saying the ten commandments are being ignored as a hole (that includes the fourth commandment). Like you said 'Second commandment is close at hand.' I don't know as much about Presbyterianism as you all do, but I do know that the majority of modern day Presbyterians look like New Calvinist; who essentially deny the validity of the 10 commandments as binding on believers today.

Btw Chris, Lord willing I'll be able to purchase some of your books. I've been wanting to get some of those for some time now but my book budget is rather small at the moment.


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## KMK (Jan 25, 2016)

The Reformed seemingly obsess on the 4th because it is the foundation of the first table. Without the 4th, there is no corporate worship of God. Without the corporate worship of God, the first three cannot be obeyed. On the flip side, when the 4th is obeyed, the first three naturally flow out of it.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 25, 2016)

When you are ready I'm sure I can make you a deal; I should say, if it is one you are interested in, the sermons of the Scottish Commissioners is near out of print; I've less than 20 left.


Tyrese said:


> Btw Chris, Lord willing I'll be able to purchase some of your books. I've been wanting to get some of those for some time now but my book budget is rather small at the moment.


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## MW (Jan 25, 2016)

The Larger Catechism, answer 121: "we being thereby helped in our preparation to keep it, and in keeping it, better to keep all the rest of the commandments." It adds that Satan and his instruments especially aim to blot out the glory and memory of the Sabbath day. Again, answer 151, sins are aggravated "From circumstances of time and place: if on the Lord's day, or other times of divine worship."


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## Tyrese (Jan 25, 2016)

NaphtaliPress said:


> When you are ready I'm sure I can make you a deal; I should say, if it is one you are interested in, the sermons of the Scottish Commissioners is near out of print; I've less than 20 left.
> 
> 
> Tyrese said:
> ...



Thanks Chris, I'll let you know when I'm able to purchase several books.


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