# Praying to the Holy Spirit!



## Miguel (Jul 3, 2017)

My Mother-in-law recently visited the *Westminster Presbyterian Church - Charlotte, *and she came back home saying that the preaching on the Lord's Day was about "Praying to the Holy Spirit".
What do you folks think about that?


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## greenbaggins (Jul 3, 2017)

Well, I certainly wouldn't want to pray to a "Hole Spirit."  Nor would I ever want to pray exclusively to the Holy Spirit. It is best to pray to our Trinitarian God.

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## Miguel (Jul 3, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Well, I certainly wouldn't want to pray to a "Hole Spirit."  Nor would I ever want to pray exclusively to the Holy Spirit. It is best to pray to our Trinitarian God.


LOL, sorry my mistake -Hole-Holy. But I mean, What is the Reformed view about this kind of teaching? Is it right or wrong?


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## Bill The Baptist (Jul 3, 2017)

"In this manner therefore pray: our father who art in heaven...."-Matthew 6:9.

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## BGF (Jul 3, 2017)

I've heard plausible defenses of praying to each of the members of the Trinity and would not attempt to refute the practice of such. However, It seems to me the biblical pattern is to pray to the Father, in the name of the Son, by the power of the Holy Spirit. Generally, I try to stick to that pattern. 

Not having heard the sermon it's difficult to comment on its appropriateness. My gut reaction is that it seems odd that there would be an entire sermon on this specific topic. I can think of no explicit teaching in Scripture that would warrant it.

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## Andrew P.C. (Jul 3, 2017)

"*Q. *178. What is prayer?
*A. *Prayer is an offering up of our desires unto God, in the name of Christ, by the help of his Spirit; with confession of our sins, and thankful acknowledgment of his mercies.

Ps. 62:8; John 16:23; Rom. 8:26; Ps. 32:5-6; Dan. 9:4; Phil. 4:6." (WLC 178)

It would seem to be a trinitarian error to pray to a "person" rather than to God.

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## Miguel (Jul 3, 2017)

Andrew P.C. said:


> "*Q. *178. What is prayer?
> *A. *Prayer is an offering up of our desires unto God, in the name of Christ, by the help of his Spirit; with confession of our sins, and thankful acknowledgment of his mercies.
> 
> Ps. 62:8; John 16:23; Rom. 8:26; Ps. 32:5-6; Dan. 9:4; Phil. 4:6." (WLC 178)
> ...


The Pentecostal environment is full of errors about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, maybe they are getting some influence. I think the Church is a member of the denomination called ECO.


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## Herald (Jul 3, 2017)

Miguel said:


> The Pentecostal environment is full of errors about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, maybe they are getting some influence. I think the Church is a member of the denomination called ECO.


Miguel,

You received some good, scriptural advice. We are to pray to the Father, in the name of the Son, and in the power of the Spirit; in this way we are recognizing the Trinitarian nature of God, as well as modeling Jesus' instructions on prayer in Matthew 6. It's not so much a formula, as it is following God's instructions. That doesn't mean if we forget to mention the Father or the Son that God won't hear our prayers. God hears our prayers even when we make mistakes.

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## Andrew P.C. (Jul 3, 2017)

Miguel said:


> The Pentecostal environment is full of errors about the doctrine of the Holy Spirit, maybe they are getting some influence. I think the Church is a member of the denomination called ECO.




I briefly looked into this denomination. Seems to be a split from the PCUSA over allowing homosexuals to be ordained. However, I'm not sure how they would be unorthodox in their trinitarian theology. As noted above, one would need to hear the sermon in order to make a better judgment on this issue.

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## Edward (Jul 3, 2017)

I tried to listen to a sermon, but they have a terrible audio setup for speaking. It would help if we knew when 'recently' was. It does appear that the sermon was likely one in the series that they are doing on Pentecost and that they keep to a liturgical calendar.


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## Miguel (Jul 3, 2017)

Edward said:


> I tried to listen to a sermon, but they have a terrible audio setup for speaking. It would help if we knew when 'recently' was. It does appear that the sermon was likely one in the series that they are doing on Pentecost and that they keep to a liturgical calendar.


I'm guessing it was 3 weeks ago.


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## Edward (Jul 3, 2017)

Miguel said:


> I'm guessing it was 3 weeks ago.



Looks like that one was in the 'Trinity' series, may be a possibility.

As for the acoustics - it looks like they are either renovating their sanctuary or just completed a renovation. Maybe they hired the folks that did ours. We ended up with an echo chamber (the music sounded great) and had to go back in and re-do the acoustics. 

.

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## bookslover (Jul 4, 2017)

I think it's interesting that they have communion per the Anglican's _Book of Common Prayer._ I wonder how that came about?

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## Dachaser (Jul 4, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Well, I certainly wouldn't want to pray to a "Hole Spirit."  Nor would I ever want to pray exclusively to the Holy Spirit. It is best to pray to our Trinitarian God.


This type of prayer happened quite a bit during my time in the AOG, and would say that while the Holy Spirit is indeed God, and so nothing wrong with praying at times to Him, our biblical example is to pray to the Father in the name of Jesus, in the power of the Holy Spirit. He is here to glorify Jesus, and so would want to divert attention from himself unto Him.

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## josiahrussell (Jul 6, 2017)

Would you say then that 'praying in the Holy Spirit' happens by praying according to Gods will?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## OPC'n (Jul 6, 2017)

So am i wrong to pray, "Father, you are our Father and justifier, Jesus you are our Redeemer and Savior, Holy Spirit you are our comforter and teacher. You are three persons in one."?

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## SolaScriptura (Jul 7, 2017)

To whom should we address our prayers? I've found this article to be very helpful: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/you-asked-can-i-pray-to-Jesus

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## Dachaser (Jul 7, 2017)

josiahrussell said:


> Would you say then that 'praying in the Holy Spirit' happens by praying according to Gods will?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I would say that now, but those in the AOG see it as praying in tongues.


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## Dachaser (Jul 7, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> So am i wrong to pray, "Father, you are our Father and justifier, Jesus you are our Redeemer and Savior, Holy Spirit you are our comforter and teacher. You are three persons in one."?


I would not say that you are wrong, but would say that the Father getting it directly Himself seems to be the biblical pattern of prayer.
I have also prayed at times to the Spirit for Him to give me direction, keep me from sinning now, or to have power to witness.

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## Jack K (Jul 8, 2017)

SolaScriptura said:


> To whom should we address our prayers? I've found this article to be very helpful: https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/you-asked-can-i-pray-to-Jesus



I thought of that same article when I saw this thread, but I didn't take the time to try to find it. Thank you for posting so I could read it again. The article is biblically informed and takes an encouraging tone. Makes me want to pray.


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## KMK (Jul 8, 2017)

Miguel said:


> What is the Reformed view about this kind of teaching? Is it right or wrong?



Owen believed that praying to the Holy Spirit as God (with the understanding that you cannot consider one person of the Trinity without considering all three together) is an essential part of our communion with Him.

"This is the sum of the first direction:-the grace, acting, love, effects of the Holy Ghost, as he is our comforter, ought to stir us up and provoke us to love, worship, believe in, *and invocate him*;-though all this, being directed to him as God, is not less directed, on that account, to the other persons than to him. Only by the fruits of his love towards us are we stirred up unto it.

These things being presupposed, let the saints learn to act faith distinctly on the holy Ghost, as the immediate efficient cause of all the good things mentioned;-faith, I say, to believe in him; and faith in all things to believe him and to yield obedience to him; faith, not imagination. The distinction of the persons in the Trinity is not to be fancied, but believed. So, then, the Scripture so fully, frequently, clearly, distinctly ascribing the things we have been speaking of to the immediate efficiency of the Holy Ghost, faith closes with him in the truth revealed, and peculiarly regard him, worships, him serves him, waits for him, *prayeth to him*, praiseth him;-all these things, I say, the saints do in faith...

*Also, in our prayers to him for the carrying on the work of our consolation, which he has undertaken, lies our communion with him.* John prays for grace and peace from the seven Spirits that are before the throne, or the Holy Ghost, whose operations are perfect and complete." John Owen; _Works, Vol. 2
_

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