# Quote on the American Dream



## Brother John (Sep 13, 2010)

I came across this quote today and wanted to see what the PB thought of it.

"The American Dream can be defined as the pursuit of personal affluence at the expense of character and the pursuit of peace at the expense of principle."


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## Southern Presbyterian (Sep 13, 2010)

Seems pretty accurate to me.


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## puritan628 (Sep 13, 2010)

I don't agree with the quotation.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 13, 2010)

puritan628 said:


> I don't agree with the quotation.


 
Neither do I.

Simply put, the American dream is that with enough hardwork and determination, we can rise above our present circumstances and have a better life.


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## AThornquist (Sep 13, 2010)

I wouldn't completely agree with the quote. I think the American Dream is that men and women have an opportunity to pursue their idols of comfort and materialism without concern for the rest of the world.


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## jayce475 (Sep 13, 2010)

The American dream isn't really confined to the US is it? Many other countries are based on the same philosophy, even if the manifestation thereof differs slightly.


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## Edward (Sep 13, 2010)

Count me as among those who disagree. 

It shows a total misunderstanding of what has historically been thought of as the 'American Dream', and appears to be an attempt to re-define that term to support a current agenda. 

See Ben's post for a traditional understanding of the term. Even the current intro to the Wikipedia article does a better job.


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## puritanpilgrim (Sep 13, 2010)

Perhaps it would help if we define American dream so then we can see if this quote lives up. The concept of American dream could be my desire to destroy others in corporate business or it could be my desire to raise a family and freely pursue God centered desires.


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## Jesus is my friend (Sep 13, 2010)

SolaScriptura said:


> puritan628 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't agree with the quotation.
> ...


 
Well said Ben!

---------- Post added at 11:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:33 PM ----------




Edward said:


> Count me as among those who disagree.
> 
> It shows a total misunderstanding of what has historically been thought of as the 'American Dream', and appears to be an attempt to re-define that term to support a current agenda.
> 
> See Ben's post for a traditional understanding of the term. Even the current intro to the Wikipedia article does a better job.


 
And Edward too,I agree with your take on it completely


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## SolaSaint (Sep 13, 2010)

And he said to all, "If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross daily and follow me. Luke 9:23

Does this verse and the same saying from Jesus in Matthew and Mark support the American Dream?


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## Edward (Sep 14, 2010)

SolaSaint said:


> Does this verse and the same saying from Jesus in Matthew and Mark support the American Dream?



Who suggested that it did? You can find a number of verses that won't support any proposition that might be raised. 

Perhaps the better question would be as to Proverbs 13:11 Wealth gained by dishonesty will be diminished,
But he who gathers by labor will increase. (NKJV)

Or Proverbs 12:27 Whoever is slothful will not roast his game,
but the diligent man will get precious wealth. (ESV)


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 14, 2010)

jayce475 said:


> The American dream isn't really confined to the US is it? Many other countries are based on the same philosophy, even if the manifestation thereof differs slightly.



Actually, there _is_ a difference. In other countries... do they want to have a better life? Sure. Everyone wants a better life. In other places do they believe they can improve their state in life through hard work and determination? Sure, in some places. But here is the difference - in other places, they HOPE that hard work will improve their life, in America we EXPECT that we can improve our lot in lives.

Additionally, this plays out in the phenomenon that in other places people are much more resigned to "this is the way things are" whereas in America, we are not content with the way things are and we firmly believe that any grievance, any percieved injustice, can be remedied.

It is good to be an American.


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## JBaldwin (Sep 14, 2010)

Edward said:


> SolaSaint said:
> 
> 
> > Does this verse and the same saying from Jesus in Matthew and Mark support the American Dream?
> ...



Based on my studies of early American history, this is the basis of the "American Dream". People came here, because for the most part they could worship freely, work hard and keep what they earned. 

My own ancestors who came here in the early 1800s came because in the country where they lived (Norway), only the eldest son could inherit property. In the US, there was plenty of land. The 2nd, 3rd, 4th sons, etc. of thousands came here, because there was little threat of losing the land they purchased, and they knew they could keep what they earned from working hard. 

These days, it seems people talk about the American Dream in terms of making money.


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## LawrenceU (Sep 14, 2010)

The quote in the OP shows a vast ignorance of this nation's history and the motivations of its founders.


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## Andres (Sep 14, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> The quote in the OP shows a vast ignorance of this nation's history and the motivations of its founders.


 
but I think this is partially the point. I think (correct me if I'm wrong OP) that John is making the point that the definition of the American Dream has been redefined. Americans no longer think like their ancestors did when they first came here.


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## Brother John (Sep 14, 2010)

*Clarification*

I may need to add some context to clarify the quote. I was cutting the grass last night listening to my iPod, nothing like some theology and the smell of cut grass. The speaker was not referring to what the American dream was at our founding or even what is truly should be, but what it has become to mainstream America since the 1940's in his opinion. I wanted to see if the PB thought this was an accurate observation or inaccurate.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Sep 14, 2010)

My Understanding is that the phrase the "American Dream" was coined in 1931 in a book called the Epic of America.

"[The American Dream is] that dream of a land in which life should be better and richer and fuller for everyone, with opportunity for each according to ability or achievement. It is a difficult dream for the European upper classes to interpret adequately, and too many of us ourselves have grown weary and mistrustful of it. It is not a dream of motor cars and high wages merely, but a dream of social order in which each man and each woman shall be able to attain to the fullest stature of which they are innately capable, and be recognized by others for what they are, regardless of the fortuitous circumstances of birth or position."


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## SolaSaint (Sep 14, 2010)

Edward said:


> SolaSaint said:
> 
> 
> > Does this verse and the same saying from Jesus in Matthew and Mark support the American Dream?
> ...


 
Ed, don't get your feathers ruffled, I was just posing a question, I wasn't claiming anyone was in error. God bless.


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## jayce475 (Sep 14, 2010)

This thread has me really confused, as a non-American looking in. So is the American dream something desirable or not? And really, who has the absolute say on what the American dream is really about? Can it be allowed to take on different definitions over the years? Unless questions like these are addressed, any definition of it is fairly arbitrary isn't it?


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