# Salvation Army



## Herald (Dec 5, 2008)

For not particular reason I decided to check out the Salvation Army's website. I always knew their theology was a bit left of center, but I had no idea they were so "honest" about their doctrinal position. I quote the following from their website.



> The Salvation Army was founded as an evangelical organization dedicated to bringing people into a meaningful relationship with God through Christ. Its doctrinal basis is that of the Wesleyan-Arminian tradition.



Give them credit. They state they are Arminian for all to see.


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## Scott1 (Dec 5, 2008)

I've been involved with the Salvation Army in the past and can tell you they preach the Gospel, emphasize personal holiness, and do yeoman's work with their limited resources, serving the poor in Christ's name, and providing a church home for many. 

Though they have been tested for their Christian witness many times, they have never compromised that witness.

They are very efficient in terms of doing a lot with a little and are a tremendous witness for our Lord everywhere they operate.

Did you know, for example, they have one of the world's largest missing persons locating services?


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## Herald (Dec 5, 2008)

Scott, I'm not impugning their work. When I worked at a Christian food bank in Paterson, NJ we partnered with the "Sally." I'm just commenting on their doctrinal stand. They come right out and say they are Arminian. Not a lot of places will come right out and say it. They do.


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## Pergamum (Dec 5, 2008)

I actually helped the Salvation army one winter during my time in the military. I was pleased with their use of fund and their willingness to help those that needed it,and all this in the (generic) name of Christ. I believe there is room for "mere Christianity" types of endeavors, when the actions are simple and errant theology is not being advocated (ha, I never heard any theology advocated).


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## jwithnell (Dec 5, 2008)

I've supported them as well. Time and again, I'd see them show up after a wildfire had gone through neighborhoods, and they were there to help, usually with food and water (after hurricanes). No big production, no question about your doctrine, no whining about fund raising or politics. Hey buddy, do you need some help?


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## toddpedlar (Dec 5, 2008)

as long as they're not called a "church", that's fine. They are a fine charitable organization.


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## larryjf (Dec 5, 2008)

Right...they can't be a church as they don't observe the sacraments.


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## Herald (Dec 5, 2008)

Ummm....just saw this:

FOXNews.com - Salvation Army Leader May Lose Job Over Forbidden Marriage - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News


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## he beholds (Dec 5, 2008)

Herald said:


> Ummm....just saw this:
> 
> FOXNews.com - Salvation Army Leader May Lose Job Over Forbidden Marriage - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News



I don't know anything about the salvation army, but why would they require an officer to marry another???????

That sounds like a cult...


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## jd.morrison (Dec 5, 2008)

he beholds said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > Ummm....just saw this:
> ...



yeah kinda like requiring celibacy of church officials...


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## Hippo (Dec 5, 2008)

The "Holiness" theology that is at the heart of the Salvation Army's historical doctrine is the very worst expression of Arminianism that there is, it really is in violent conflict with the Gospel.


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## KMK (Dec 5, 2008)

They have great bands!

"Follow the fold and stray no more,
Stray no more, stray no more.
Follow the fold and stray no more,
Follow, follow the fold!"


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## Contra_Mundum (Dec 5, 2008)

he beholds said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > Ummm....just saw this:
> ...



I'll just guess, and say its a rule for their "club", kind of like the PuritanBoard. If you want to join the club, then you agree to its rules. If you want to STAY in the club, then abide by its rules, or you will have to gracefully accept the consequences.

I didn't see where it said anyplace that the rule for "officers" (not regular members) was a Bible teaching, not like those who teach that flouting priestly celibacy is sin. The man can't be an "officer" in that club, and be married to a non-officer, or maybe it's that he can't subsequently marry a non-member.

Whatever. It's a club. And if the guy wants to help manage the club, he ought to care about its standards. They ought to have a loophole, in my opinion, for people in his unique situation--but its not my club, and I don't vote on the rules.

Its one thing to say "yes" to the standards, so you can get in, and you don't care enough to think "what if I want to marry someone who isn't with me on this later on? Is this a rule I, or anyone else in his right mind, should agree to, going in?"

I think its on him, personally. The problem with the rule, whatever that may be, has nothing whatever to do with whether the club can enforce its own standards. There's something wrong about a person who is OK with the rules so long as they agree with his present situation, but as soon as those circumstances change, he wants a waiver, a personal dispensation.

What's wrong with any community creating standards for marriage, for any of its members, let alone leaders? As long as it is within the limits of the higher law? This society's is different from that one's. Its not necessarily a sin in either case.

If we in the Reformed Church enforced our standards, *we would discipline any member who married someone in the Roman communion.*


> WCF24:3 "It is lawful for all sorts of people to marry, who are able with judgment to give their consent. Yet it is the duty of Christians to marry only in the Lord: and therefore such as profess the true reformed religion should not marry with infidels, *papists*, or other idolaters: neither should such as are godly be unequally yoked, by marrying with such as are notoriously wicked in their life, or maintain damnable heresies."


But because we're a church, and not a club, all our *rules that require discipline* must be straight out of the Bible.

But, their rule isn't even about sin. Its about who they want as officers of their club. Bottom line: don't like this rule or that? don't sign up.


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## Herald (Dec 5, 2008)

Well I'm pretty sure the Salvation Army is a club that I won't be joining anytime soon.


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## Scott1 (Dec 5, 2008)

The Salvation Army is unique.

It is organized as a church but operates more with a church as a subset of its evangelistic and humanitarian work. Many of their churches consist of "Army" lifetime members and newer converts, particularly among the the down-and-out. They have been this way since their inception (150 years) and have never hidden who they are, what they believe or how they do things.

Their local churches do not ordinarily administer the sacraments. My understanding is they almost encourage members to get the sacraments elsewhere. They aren't really doctrinally opposed to them and don't teach against them but they have never really been able to make a clear case explaining themselves on this point.

They have been Arminian influenced from the get-go. They have never hidden that fact. They are somewhat like the Methodists and Nazarenes in that they almost teach that holiness is a work that guarantees salvation. So you will find them resolutely opposed to liquor, gambling, even tobacco.

From what I have observed in an advisory capacity, life in "the Army" is somewhat isolated. It's a lonely life with both great personal sacrifice and dedication required. The officers take what is, in effect, vows of poverty yet they are admirably taken care of within the organization. 

Ordinarily, they require marriage within the Army because they think it distracts from the lifetime focus of members. I think they make exceptions to this policy, it's not quite absolute rule, but I'm not sure how this works out in practice.

There are many things that I can now say are incorrect or not fully developed biblically within "the Army." It's unconcionable for a local church to neglect the sacraments or imply they should be obtained elsewhere. However, I can say that they have modeled Christianity in many ways in a focused and uncompromised way which is uncommon indeed. And they have done so for a long time, for God's Honor and Glory.

Insofar as they are very focus on a life committed to evangelism, serving the poor in Jesus name, and pursuing personal holiness, I cannot fault them. They are respected by believers and non-believers for this.

Incidentally, they rotate their people frequently to different stations so they never become deeply entrenched in one place. I remember the wife of one Salvation Army captain as I worked helping them move from their home. She was crying as they left saying they never got to stay long enough in one place to feel they were a part of anything in this world.

Would that we could at least have that kind of view of this world and have, in its place, a longing for Heaven.


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