# What did the early church service look like?



## au5t1n

What did the early church service look like in the time of the Apostles and shortly thereafter? Please cite Scripture and early church father quotes where appropriate.

Some guiding questions:

1) Were there responsive readings?
2) How formal/informal was it?
3) How much member participation was in the service?

This subject came up in my mind as I was reflecting on some practical implications of the Regulative Principle of Worship, which I have come to see as a great blessing for the purity of the Church.

Edited to add: I apologize if this belongs in the Worship forum. I wasn't sure.


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## DTK

austinww said:


> What did the early church service look like in the time of the Apostles and shortly thereafter? Please cite Scripture and early church father quotes where appropriate.



While Holy Scripture provides us with the elements of worship (that which is positively commanded by God), it does not indicate (for example) the time of the day at which public worship is to take place. G. I. Williamson adds, "Neither has the Lord prescribed the shape, style, or size of the place of worship." (See his commentary on the WCF, p. 161).

But the earliest patristic description of a common worship serivice, to my knowledge, is that provided by Justin Martyr...

*Justin Martyr (wrote after 151): *And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. Then we all rise together and pray, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. _ANF: Vol. I, First Apology of Justin_, Chapter 67.

DTK


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## au5t1n

DTK said:


> But the earliest patristic description of a common worship serivice, to my knowledge, is that provided by Justin Martyr...
> 
> *Justin Martyr (wrote after 151): *And on the day called Sunday, all who live in cities or in the country gather together to one place, and the memoirs of the apostles or the writings of the prophets are read, as long as time permits; then, when the reader has ceased, the president verbally instructs, and exhorts to the imitation of these good things. *Then we all rise together and pray*, and, as we before said, when our prayer is ended, bread and wine and water are brought, and the president in like manner offers prayers and thanksgivings, according to his ability, and the people assent, saying Amen; and there is a distribution to each, and a participation of that over which thanks have been given, and to those who are absent a portion is sent by the deacons. And they who are well to do, and willing, give what each thinks fit; and what is collected is deposited with the president, who succors the orphans and widows and those who, through sickness or any other cause, are in want, and those who are in bonds and the strangers sojourning among us, and in a word takes care of all who are in need. But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Savior on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration. _ANF: Vol. I, First Apology of Justin_, Chapter 67.
> 
> DTK



It appears from the bolded part that they all prayed the same prayer. I wonder whether this is a prayer from Scripture or one written specifically for the Christian worship service; and if the latter, how does that fit in with the RPW? The Didache contains recited prayers that are not Scripture as well.


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## DTK

austinww said:


> It appears from the bolded part that they all prayed the same prayer. I wonder whether this is a prayer from Scripture or one written specifically for the Christian worship service; and if the latter, how does that fit in with the RPW? The Didache contains recited prayers that are not Scripture as well.



I would disagree with the inference you've drawn from Justin's comments. He stated two chapters earlier...

J*ustin Martyr (wrote after 151):* But we, after we have thus washed him who has been convinced and has assented to our teaching, bring him to the place where those who are called brethren are assembled, *in order that we may offer hearty prayers in common for ourselves and for the baptized [illuminated] person, and for all others in every place*, that we may be counted worthy, now that we have learned the truth, by our works also to be found good citizens and keepers of the commandments, so that we may be saved with an everlasting salvation. Having ended the prayers, we salute one another with a kiss. There is then brought to the president of the brethren bread and a cup of wine mixed with water; and he taking them, gives praise and glory to the Father of the universe, through the name of the Son and of the Holy Ghost, and offers thanks at considerable length for our being counted worthy to receive these things at His hands. And when he has concluded the prayers and thanksgivings, all the people present express their assent by saying Amen. This word Amen answers in the Hebrew language to γένοιτο [so be it]. And when the president has given thanks, and all the people have expressed their assent, those who are called by us deacons give to each of those present to partake of the bread and wine mixed with water over which the thanksgiving was pronounced, and to those who are absent they carry away a portion. _ANF: Vol. I, First Apology of Justin_, Chapter 65, Administration of the Sacraments.

Again, G. I. Williamson comments on 1 Tim 2:1-2, "Since it is evident that many kings, and other persons in authority, are not mentioned in the prayers written in the Bible, it is evident that God would not have us to merely recite the prayers of Scripture. But this does not mean that we are left to pray according to our will." (Commentary on the WCF, p. 163.) William also argues against liturgical (or set forms) of non-scriptural prayers, and points out that God prescribes the *pattern* for our prayers in the Lord's prayer (Matthew 6). For indeed, as the Apostle Paul informs us, we often experience agnostic difficulty when praying, _Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered_. Rom 8:26.

DTK


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## au5t1n

Thank you. That's very helpful.

-----Added 11/22/2009 at 09:01:18 EST-----

I notice Justin's account (at least the portion you quoted) contains no reference to singing during the service. Do you know where I might find references to singing in church services in the early church fathers?

-----Added 11/22/2009 at 09:18:57 EST-----

Nevermind, I'll explore the EP forum for that instead of asking you to search for references.

Do you (or anyone) have any comments on whether the service Justin describes is the same as or divergent from the sort of pattern we see hinted at in certain Scripture passages (e.g. 1 Cor. 14)?


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## dannyhyde

Here are some handouts from a catechism class I taught on this a couple of years ago with lots of charts on the nature of patristic worship...

http://www.oceansideurc.org/ - What is Reformed Worship?


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## Pergamum

austinww said:


> What did the early church service look like in the time of the Apostles and shortly thereafter? Please cite Scripture and early church father quotes where appropriate.
> 
> Some guiding questions:
> 
> 1) Were there responsive readings?
> 2) How formal/informal was it?
> 3) How much member participation was in the service?
> 
> This subject came up in my mind as I was reflecting on some practical implications of the Regulative Principle of Worship, which I have come to see as a great blessing for the purity of the Church.
> 
> Edited to add: I apologize if this belongs in the Worship forum. I wasn't sure.



THANK YOU for asking this question. Excellent, I am looking forward to reading this thread.


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## DTK

austinww said:


> Do you know where I might find references to singing in church services in the early church fathers?


The plethora of such references would be too numerous for me to list, but they are found throughout patristic literature. Unlike other subjects, I have not compiled a list of these in my files on the same. But consult (for example) Chrysostom's homilies where he exegetes Ephesians 5:19 and Colossians 3:16. Consult especially their sermons on the Psalms, but their comments on singing in worship, as such, are scattered throughout their writings...

Robert C. Hill, trans., _Diodore of Tarsus, Commentary on Psalms 1-51 _(Atlanta: Society of Biblical Literature, 2005).

Robert Charles Hill, trans., _St. John Chrysostom, Old Testament Homilies, Volume Three: Homilies on the Psalms_ (Brookline: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 2003).

Robert Charles Hill, _St. John Chrysostom Commentary on the Psalms_, 2 Volumes (Brookline: Holy Cross Orthodox Press, 1998).

_Fathers of the Church, Theodoret of Cyrus, Commentary on the Psalms_, Vols. 101-102 (Washington D.C.: The Catholic University of America Press, 2000, 2001).

DTK


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## lynnie

Do you accept Paul's instructions to Corinth as instruction for us today? Do you accept 1 Cor 14, as well as the part about communion in Ch 11?

I am only asking because I've seen Reformed people reject it. If you accept it, it is very applicable.


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## au5t1n

lynnie said:


> Do you accept Paul's instructions to Corinth as instruction for us today? Do you accept 1 Cor 14, as well as the part about communion in Ch 11?
> 
> I am only asking because I've seen Reformed people reject it. If you accept it, it is very applicable.



I'm not sure what you mean. I certainly do accept Paul's instructions, but which part have you seen rejected?

-----Added 11/22/2009 at 10:00:29 EST-----

Are you referring to his instructions about tongues and prophecy, or about the pattern of the worship service?


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## Michael

austinww said:


> What did the early church service look like in the time of the Apostles and shortly thereafter?


Well, you can always start with what it did *NOT* look like and go from there...


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## au5t1n

Yeah, that's true!



Michael Turner said:


> austinww said:
> 
> 
> 
> What did the early church service look like in the time of the Apostles and shortly thereafter?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, you can always start with what it did *NOT* look like and go from there...
Click to expand...


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## au5t1n

Anyone have any more comments on early church services and how the patristic descriptions compare with the few Scriptural glimpses we have?


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## MarieP

What? Where are the happy clappy praise choruses, dramatic skits, and the alter call??? 



Interestingly enough, singing is not mentioned at all!


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## dannyhyde

austinww said:


> Anyone have any more comments on early church services and how the patristic descriptions compare with the few Scriptural glimpses we have?



Read the outlines I provided above.


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## au5t1n

dannyhyde said:


> austinww said:
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone have any more comments on early church services and how the patristic descriptions compare with the few Scriptural glimpses we have?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Read the outlines I provided above.
Click to expand...


I did. Thank you. Good stuff.


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## DTK

austinww said:


> Anyone have any more comments on early church services and how the patristic descriptions compare with the few Scriptural glimpses we have?


I would highly recommend that you procure for yourself a copy of Hughes Oliphant Old's _The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship_. As Old points out in the opening chapter, "the Reformers were engaged in a return to the sources," and goes on to add that "[p]rimarily it was a return to the Scriptures, but the writings of the Fathers were read as witnesses to the purer forms of worship of the ancient Church."

DTK


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## steadfast7

I'm aware that Justin and many other 2nd century fathers viewed the eucharist as the flesh and blood of Jesus, and that it began to become more prominent in worship as years drew on. 

My question is: In what sense did they believe the presence of Christ was in the eucharist? Was it identical to Calvin, or slightly more literal?

I'll just ask here for now and depending on the response, we'll spin off to a new thread.


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## au5t1n

That would require a new thread, but for my  - Don't let Roman Catholic apologetics sites tell you what the fathes believed. Read them yourself. The writings of the ante-Nicene fathers are online. Start with Justin Martyr, Irenaeus of Lyons, Ignatius of Antioch, etc.


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