# T.D. Jakes



## Jared (Mar 23, 2010)

Is T.D. Jakes a modalist? I used to think he was, but now I'm not sure. The page on oneness pentecostalism on wikipedia says that T.D. Jakes has been accused of being a oneness pentecostal, but that he denies this. 

It might make some difference for me in regard to his ministry. I might be able to look at him in the way that I look at Billy Graham, as someone with whom I disagree on several things, but someone who is nonetheless used by God to some extent. I don't believe that someone can be saved though if they deny the doctrine of the trinity.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 23, 2010)

http://www.puritanboard.com/f34/td-jakes-modalism-18839/

There is an first hand account on the link above. 

He has been a noted for his Modalism for years.


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## jayce475 (Mar 23, 2010)

He's coming to Hillsongs Conference this year and heaps of my friends are flying down to Melbourne to listen to him. Oh dear...


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## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 23, 2010)

That is a shame that Hill song would even allow him within a million yards of a podium. He is so unorthodox it is terrible. I took my son to a Hill Song Live Concert for his birthday. That won't happen again.


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## jayce475 (Mar 23, 2010)

I got it wrong, think it is Sydney where the conference is held. Not that it makes it any better though.


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## jason d (Mar 23, 2010)

Ya, when I first heard about this years ago I went to his church website and on their "What We Believe" they were very clear in their oneness views and even said they "deny the Trinity".

Seems like he is not as open about his view as he once was because his site no longer has that (now just has vague language). But he also hasn't said anything to refute what he has always believed... just hiding it now.


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## SemperEruditio (Mar 23, 2010)

Jakes says that the Doctrine of the Trinity is confusing and divisional. He says that we should focus on the work of Christ and not what different modes he operates in...doctrine divides and all that...


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## motobat (Mar 23, 2010)

From the Potter's House website Belief Statement:

"God -There is one God, Creator of all things, infinitely perfect, and eternally existing in three _manifestations_: Father, Son and Holy Spirit. " (emphasis mine)

Manifestation (n): a perceptible, outward or visible expression; one of the forms in which an _individual_ is manifested. (emphasis mine)

Hmm...


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## awretchsavedbygrace (Mar 23, 2010)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> That is a shame that Hill song would even allow him within a million yards of a podium. He is so unorthodox it is terrible. I took my son to a Hill Song Live Concert for his birthday. That won't happen again.


 
I wouldnt consider Hillsong Orthodox as well.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 23, 2010)

Jared104 said:


> Is T.D. Jakes a modalist? I used to think he was, but now I'm not sure. The page on oneness pentecostalism on wikipedia says that T.D. Jakes has been accused of being a oneness pentecostal, but that he denies this.



He's a modalist. He's like folks who deny total depravity and say that man is sick in sin, not dead in sin, deny that God chooses who will be saved based on nothing more than His eternal and all wise counsel, believe in universal atonement, yet they want to say 'I'm not an Arminian or a Calvinist'. And he knows full well the word-game he's playing with the less discerning crowd of thousands of thousands that he's famous with.


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## Jared (Mar 23, 2010)

I wouldnt consider Hillsong Orthodox as well.

I would almost agree with that statement. As far as Brian Houston's preaching is concerned, you're probably right. I hardly ever hear him preach the gospel. However, I think some of their songs have good theology. Songs like "Mighty To Save", "The Stand", and "Lead Me To The Cross". John Piper's church does their songs from time to time. Not to say that their doctrine is flawless or anything like that, but I'm sure that they consider the doctrine in the songs that they sing before they prepare them.


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## awretchsavedbygrace (Mar 23, 2010)

Jared104 said:


> I wouldnt consider Hillsong Orthodox as well.
> 
> I would almost agree with that statement. As far as Brian Houston's preaching is concerned, you're probably right. I hardly ever hear him preach the gospel. However, I think some of their songs have good theology. Songs like "Mighty To Save", "The Stand", and "Lead Me To The Cross". John Piper's church does their songs from time to time. Not to say that their doctrine is flawless or anything like that, but I'm sure that they consider the doctrine in the songs that they sing before they prepare them.



I'll give it a shot. Knowing what i know about them, they probably dont care much for sound doctrine. but thats just an assumption.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 23, 2010)

Interestingly enough T.D. Jakes is from Charleston, West Virginia.


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## Edward (Mar 23, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Interestingly enough T.D. Jakes is from Charleston, West Virginia.


 
He moved to Dallas when one of the local prosperity preachers went to federal prison, and another was enmeshed in a series of scandals, so there was an opening in the market.


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## kvanlaan (Mar 24, 2010)

The Hillsong bunch scares me. Yes, we listen to some of the music too, but I've heard some truly bizarre things come out of Brian Houston's mouth in youtube clips. Most of that having to do with material wealth and how God wants you to be rich, yada yada yada.


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## Jared (Mar 24, 2010)

Could someone be saved at his church if he doesn't mention modalism and simply presents the gospel?


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## Gage Browning (Mar 24, 2010)

Edward said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Interestingly enough T.D. Jakes is from Charleston, West Virginia.
> ...


 
That person was WV Grant...who went to jail and is now back on in Dallas!


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## Jared (Mar 24, 2010)

I saw WV Grant in person. I was astonished that he was selling prophecies. I really didn't want to go, but my mom talked me into going with her. I can't believe that he's back in ministry and people are actually following him.


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## jayce475 (Mar 24, 2010)

Jared104 said:


> Could someone be saved at his church if he doesn't mention modalism and simply presents the gospel?


 
What kind of a gospel presentation can be devoid of mention of the trinity? Four spiritual laws? "Today is the day for you to invite Jesus into your heart"? A faithful gospel presentation is more than what mainline evangelicalism usually has. If God is gracious and T.D. Jakes somehow presents the gospel faithfully, then people can be saved at his church. But "my sheep will hear my voice", so the truly saved will remove themselves out of his church, just like how the truly saved within the RC will remove themselves from the dead religion of Romanism.


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## Jared (Mar 25, 2010)

> What kind of a gospel presentation can be devoid of mention of the trinity? Four spiritual laws? "Today is the day for you to invite Jesus into your heart"? A faithful gospel presentation is more than what mainline evangelicalism usually has. If God is gracious and T.D. Jakes somehow presents the gospel faithfully, then people can be saved at his church. But "my sheep will hear my voice", so the truly saved will remove themselves out of his church, just like how the truly saved within the RC will remove themselves from the dead religion of Romanism.



Agreed.


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