# Is there a need for reformation within the reformed?



## Andrew P.C. (Jan 11, 2010)

I had a discussion with a gentleman yesterday about something that has concerned me for the past few weeks as I have been thinking more upon seminary and certain students I know. We all know that (sadly) there is distinctions within calvinism i.e. high calvinist, low calvinist, etc. But there also seems to be distinctions within those who call themselves confessional. For example, there are those who hold to the WCF yet hold that the WCF doesn't teach Limited Atonement, and then there are those who say it does, yet they both hold to the WCF. As I was talking to this gentleman he was telling me about, how of late, seminaries e.g. WTS, WSC, etc. are producing students who are confessionally "leaning" (my own words). Some students are looking at the confessions and seeing how the confessions should be "interpreted"; like there is some sort of gap for being more liberal with the confessions. In all honesty, I believe this goes to a bigger issue of some faculty members and certain controversies that have taken place within the seminaries(WTS comes to mind). Are we seeing a decline in holding to confessions and interpretations varying within the "reformed" camp?


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## lynnie (Jan 11, 2010)

Interesting question. I've never met somebody who calls themself confessional who does not hold to the five points, although I've met plenty of "reformed 3.5s" and "reformed 4's". Sometimes one who identifies with being confessional has moved on to #6 (the doctrine of reprobation/double predestination) as necessary to be truly confessional. And lots of 5's will not subscribe to 6.


What I wonder about is what it means to be confessional as far as the Sabbath goes. I know people who are wholeheartedly into being confessional, and regularly call themselves confessional, but they do allow for exceptions, including occasionally skipping church Sunday AM for secular and recreational activities (biking, NASCAR). I just can't picture the writers of the WCF saying that is OK. I won't even call myself confessional because on Sunday afternoon I will occasionally do things that I don't think the writers of the confession would allow (swim at the YMCA, walk inside a mall if it is raining, watch a movie) and I'd feel dishonest saying I am confessional. But I wouldn't skip church for those things so I don't really know how people can skip church for fun and consider themselves confessional. I am not saying they are sinning, but it sure doesn't seem confessional. Once you start to take exceptions, where do you draw a line as to what is confessional?

I don't think there is a decline in holding to confessions; it seems to me to be the opposite, there is more interest in at least considering them and finding out about them. With all the big name Calvinist speakers out there, a lot of young people from Arminian and dispensational backgrounds are getting interested in sound doctrine and Calvinism and theology. And of course at some point the subject of confessions comes up. I know that in my very limited exposure in the PCA, what with the Federal Vision, and then Enns sliding from inerrancy, there seems to be a fresh desire to make sure we uphold doctrine and go back to the confessions, at the very least on basics. 

Maybe there will end up being a new confession, and by that I mean for example, a statement by a group such as the alliance of confessing evangelicals as to what are the fundamentals of the faith that is broader than the WCF. I know churches that call themselves "Grudemite" which is pretty much 5 solas, 5 points, anti-Dispensational covenant theology, continuist (gifts of the HS), men in leadership.......but no stand on polity- definitely not Presbyterian- and no stand on the Sabbath, and paedo and credo are both OK ( the ones I know are credo), and worship can be very contemporary. The bottom line is that you might say John Piper and Wayne Grudem are the new confession for some churches.

Confusing and divided doesn't even begin to describe it


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