# Creation Nakedness and Shame



## Romans922 (Jul 9, 2008)

Pre-Fall - Naked and unashamed
Post-Fall - Naked and shamed

Revelation 19:8 shows we are still clothed by Christ's righteousness

Is nakedness still shameful in eternity future? Do we wear clothes in eternity future or are we clothed?

Just asking, I'm trying to think through something for an article I want to write on modesty.


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## Hippo (Jul 9, 2008)

I would not think that it would be shameful as surely (as you point out) shame is a result of sin, we will have new heavenly bodies and no sin. I would have thought that all references to robes etc in eternity are figurative.

Think how marvelous it will be not to have to worry about lust or shame anymore.


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## Pergamum (Jul 9, 2008)

man, I need to work out more if that's the case!



If we are perfected in heaven, the more rotund saints....will they be at optimal weight in heaven? 



I'm SERIOUS.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Jul 10, 2008)

Hippo said:


> I would not think that it would be shameful as surely (as you point out) shame is a result of sin, we will have new heavenly bodies and no sin. I would have thought that all references to robes etc in eternity are figurative.
> 
> Think how marvelous it will be not to have to worry about lust or shame anymore.



Agree 100%, Hippo. 

The real question is what should be our attitude to non-sexual or non-lascivious nudity here on Earth...


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 10, 2008)

I don't think this follows. There is no consideration for the simple themes of propriety and dignity. And I do not think that such are only post-fall considerations.

Adam and Eve were alone. We do not know how they would have _naturally_ treated a situation where children were present, a society. Shame, as we know it, would have been unknown. However, that doesn't mean that under ordinary circumstances, people wouldn't have done "right" by dressing appropriately, whatever that could have meant.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Jul 10, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> I don't think this follows. There is no consideration for the simple themes of propriety and dignity. And I do not think that such are only post-fall considerations.
> 
> Adam and Eve were alone. We do not know how they would have _naturally_ treated a situation where children were present, a society. Shame, as we know it, would have been unknown. However, that doesn't mean that under ordinary circumstances, people wouldn't have done "right" by dressing appropriately, whatever that could have meant.



I agree with you Pastor Bruce, which is why modesty is utterly subjective. The definitions of "right" and "appropriate" dress are ultimately impossible to define when it comes to modesty...


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 10, 2008)

Mason,
I think that modesty is culturally sensitive. However, brazen lasciviousness comes in many forms, and our own culture is moving in a rebellious direction. Skimpy isn't always just about the climate.


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## Romans922 (Jul 10, 2008)

I don't know if it is as subjective as many think. Note: that in verse 7 of Genesis 3 that Adam and Eve cover with loin cloths. BUT this is not enough for the LORD, it says in verse 21, " And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."

Loin cloths were not good for the Lord even when the context is the Lord, Adam, and Eve. The marriage bed is obviously different, but in regular life even in the home could not we discern from this that at least more clothing than undergarments and/or the bathing suits of today should be worn?


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## Stephen (Jul 10, 2008)

Romans922 said:


> Pre-Fall - Naked and unashamed
> Post-Fall - Naked and shamed
> 
> Revelation 19:8 shows we are still clothed by Christ's righteousness
> ...




In John's Revelation it shows that the curse will be lifted and we will live in a restored garden paradise. John states we will not need the sun for the Lord will be the light. We will be like Adam and Eve, but we will be covered in the glory of Christ, so there will be no need for clothing as we know it. We are covered now because of the shame associated with sin. Dr. Ronald Sigenthaler, the executive minister at Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale, FL wrote a great article on this very issue of clothing. You could contact him or I will try to see if I still have a copy of this article. He wrote it about four years ago.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Jul 10, 2008)

Romans922 said:


> I don't know if it is as subjective as many think. Note: that in verse 7 of Genesis 3 that Adam and Eve cover with loin cloths. BUT this is not enough for the LORD, it says in verse 21, " And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."
> 
> Loin cloths were not good for the Lord even when the context is the Lord, Adam, and Eve. The marriage bed is obviously different, but in regular life even in the home could not we discern from this that at least more clothing than undergarments and/or the bathing suits of today should be worn?



To be honest, this argument really doesn't make sense to me. Adam and Eve were completely naked before the Fall, so obviously no clothing at all was "good enough for the Lord." In fact, in His perfect plan there would be no need for clothes at all. It is man's shame over sin, not the Lord's, that necessitates the use of clothing. In God's perfect plan, clothes are completely unnecessary.


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## toddpedlar (Jul 10, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Mason,
> I think that modesty is culturally sensitive. However, brazen lasciviousness comes in many forms, and our own culture is moving in a rebellious direction. Skimpy isn't always just about the climate.



Moving? Seems we're well entrenched in such a direction...


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## DMcFadden (Jul 10, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> If we are perfected in heaven, the more rotund saints....will they be at optimal weight in heaven?



My, my, I certainly HOPE so!!!

BTW - 60 lbs. weight loss and counting on my diet. So please, Lord, if we don't have optimal weights in heaven, can you at least wait another few months until I lose the other 60 lbs?


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## Romans922 (Jul 10, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know if it is as subjective as many think. Note: that in verse 7 of Genesis 3 that Adam and Eve cover with loin cloths. BUT this is not enough for the LORD, it says in verse 21, " And the LORD God made for Adam and for his wife garments of skins and clothed them."
> ...



I was meaning to see that it wasn't good enough for the Lord post-fall meaning a loincloth is not suitable for a curse. I don't know I'm just thinking in my head out loud.


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