# Sustained Revival



## Brother John (Dec 28, 2010)

I stumbled across this the other day when I was looking for goal setting resources. Wanted to share it with the PB and see what yall thought after reading it. The first link is a thirteen page paper on "Sustained Revival" and the second is a collection of articles on the topic. I know that there is a mixture of feelings for Gary North on the board so will yall please not make this a discussion of him but of the paper. The two main themes that jumped out at me from the writings are: (1) the American church leadership and members do not truly want a widespread revival because it would overload the "system", (2) the American church leadership and members do not pray enough and do not pray specific enough. Do yall think he is on target or off? Any other thoughts or comments on the writings? 


http://GaryNorth.com/revival.pdf

Sustained Revival: A Comprehensive Plan for a Comprehensive Christian Revival


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## Whitefield (Dec 28, 2010)

> John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.



Given what the author says:



> Revival takes planning. But there is no planning. So, there is no revival, sustained or otherwise. pg. 3



and 



> If the prayers stop, the revival will stop. pg. 7



Should John 3:8 be rewritten to read



> The wind blows where we plan and pray for it, and you hear its sound, and you know where it comes from and where it goes to because you have summoned it and you have dispatched it. So it is with everyone who is born of the planning and the praying.


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## Pergamum (Dec 28, 2010)

The Awakenings in early American did "overload the system" it seems and led to the increase of the Baptists and Methodists and the decline proportionately of presbyterians since an interest in religion began rapidly to spread West but the Presbyterians, with a tradition of a highly trained clergy, could not keep pace with this expansion. Another such awakening might do the same.

Also, I do agree that we do not pray enough for "revival" or for the raising up of workers (Matthew 9).

However, "A Comprehensive Plan" for revival is folly. .....ha, a comprehensive plan!?


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## timmopussycat (Jan 17, 2011)

Whitefield said:


> > John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear its sound, but you do not know where it comes from or where it goes. So it is with everyone who is born of the Spirit.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I agree that no Christians should ever expect force God to send a revival because they have tried to plan a means of twisting his arm. 

And yet . . . and yet . . . as I observe some NT instructions on prayer, I suspect that today's churches (speaking generally) are not making it a conscious priority to pray in a way that the NT teaches that we should. And I continually wonder what would happen if we did. Here's why.

Consider first the first 3 clauses in the Lord's prayer in Matthew 6. The former Regent College professor of preaching, Dr. Darrell Johnson makes the following observations in his book:_ Fifty-Seven Words that Change the World _that the fourth clause of this prayer "on earth as it is in heaven" "goes with each of the first three petitions . . . In heaven right now the Father's name is being hallowed, his kingdom is being actualized and his will is being done. . . . Jesus is teaching us to pray. _O Father bring heaven down on earth right here. _To pray the Lord's prayer is to participate in heaven's invasion of the earth . . . to participate in a revolution of huge proportions."

Dr. Johnson then notes that the verbs in this part of the prayer ie: hallow, come and be done are all imperatives, something normally not used from inferior to superior but which Jesus himself tells us to use when addressing our Superior of superiors. Yet the verbs are also in the passive voice because _" only God can do what we are asking to have done._" [In other words Christ has commanded us to command God to do what we are asking!]

Dr Johnson's argument continues and can be summarized like this: the "already not yet" nature of the kingdom is not a case of some of the kingdom versus all of the kingdom being present. Rather it is a case of a veiled kingdom or an unveillled kingdom (see the original meanings of epiphanea "appearing" or apocalypse "unveiling", both of which are used to describe the return of Christ. "On that day . . . Jesus' present, but ordinarily veiled, power and glory will be made visible to all. [And we are commanded to command God to do this.]

Yet if "mere human beings . . . can ask for the unveiling of the kingdom of God . . . then why haven't we exercised it more intentionally? Perhaps it is because we have not understood the privilege. Perhaps it is that we have not wanted to submit our lives to the king . . . Perhaps the church has not fervently prayed for the kingdom because we know it is dangerous to do so, the King just might answer and start turning everything upside-down!"

Here I suspect Drs. Johnson and North might have a point. Yet it is worth noting that on many occasions when God has brought about remarkable awakenings in the past, the chuches found themselves supernaturally able to soundly nurture and plant the new converts within the the local churches. In giving way to fear on this point are we sellling short the Holy Spirit's ministry in such situations? I wonder. 

The other three Scriptures that I continually find in my heart on prayer for the gospel's greater effectiveness in reaching the world are, first, Jesus words in Matthew 9:38,9 "When he saw the crowds he had compassion for them because they were harassed and helpless like sheep without a shepherd. Then he said to his disciples, "The harvest is plentiful but the labourers are few, therefore pray earnestly to the Lord of the harvest to send out labourers into his harvest." At that stage of his ministry Christ's ministry was restricted to the Judean Jewish communities. Now the potential harvest may be much bigger since the church is now commanded to preach the gospel to all nations. And here the problem presented by Jonah 4:11 becomes acute. If God claims "should I not pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left" as far as pleasing God is concerned, then may we not expect God to have a like measure of compassion on cities which are 5, 10 or 15 times larger and eqully spritually blind? And should we not keep asking God to exercise that compassion? Certainly, praying for the hhallowing of his name, as he outlines it in Ex 34:8: "The Lord, the Lord, a God merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love and faithfulness" entails praying for an "abounding" display of steafast love and faithfulness in our lives, our churches, our towns, cities and countries. 

Whether God has committed himself to always producing a revival or revivals in response to prayers that follow his teachings on prayer for the nations, I don't know. (But I must observe that for about 150 years the Welsh Calvinist, later Presbyterian, churches did make it their first priority to pray for divine visitations that would reach beyond their churches and convert the pagans whenever the cause of the gospel seemed to falter, and they experienced these awakenings on a regular basis - on at least one occaison (1859) it is known that at least 10% of the national population became and remained soundly converted. See Eifon _Evans Revival Comes to Wales_.) Yet no matter what God does in reply, it seems that we are commanded to pray for nothing less than the complete establsihment of the kingdom of heaven on earth.


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## Grillsy (Jan 17, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> The Awakenings in early American did "overload the system" it seems and led to the increase of the Baptists and Methodists and the decline proportionately of presbyterians since an interest in religion began rapidly to spread West but the Presbyterians, with a tradition of a highly trained clergy, could not keep pace with this expansion. Another such awakening might do the same.
> 
> Also, I do agree that we do not pray enough for "revival" or for the raising up of workers (Matthew 9).
> 
> However, "A Comprehensive Plan" for revival is folly. .....ha, a comprehensive plan!?


 
I would add that as the revivalists and circuit riders moved further into the frontier they espoused a view and gathered a following that was/is very hostile towards formally educated clergy. Thus intentionally turning many would-be parishioners hostile toward Presbyterianism or any other denomination that would require formal education.

It is basically a hallmark of certain denominations (i.e. Churches of Christ and other restorationist flocks) and a point of pride that they have no formal educational requirements for the ministry.


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## Whitefield (Jan 17, 2011)

My point was not that we should not pray for revival and thus come into concert with God's moving. My point was I took offense at the author's conclusion that we could stay God's hand. I think his conclusion is rather clear, viz. that revival is so dependent on human agency that a lack thereof could frustrate God's intention.


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## Curt (Jan 17, 2011)

I have often wondered, as I have driven by signs advertising "Revival this Saturday" and the like, "How did they get the Holy Spirit's 800 number?"


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