# Teaching in a Public School



## ServantOfKing (Jul 31, 2007)

I must say, I was struck rather harshly by the post in the Family Forum about Christian Education and Church Discipline. I would think that if parents were to be held to the fire for sending their children to public school, then surely the teachers should be incriminated too. 
I do have strong opinions about this and since I am honestly curious as to what others think about it and what you think scripture teaches, I will hold my tongue in order to receive the wisdom of others. 
My question is: 
Is it better to obey authority and follow the rules about what I can and cannot say regarding religion? 
Or should I disobey the authority and teach as some would call it, "the Christian world view?"


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## Herald (Jul 31, 2007)

Ashley - this may be a bit off topic. I don't consider it sin for a parent to send their child to a public school. Parents have that liberty. But I would warn parents that their children will be exposed to humanism and the philosophy of this world and they will be held accountable if these teachings effect the child negatively.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 31, 2007)

It all depends on where you live to some degree. If you lived in a place that required you to teach queer theory and that it's okay for little Johnny to have two daddies, then you would have problems. I live in the hillbilly south. Our problems are more along the lines of teaching our 14 year olds to read basic books.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 31, 2007)

And who would you want teaching in the public schools? All Christ-hating humanists?


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## ServantOfKing (Jul 31, 2007)

Good point about who we would want teaching in the schools...
Mr. Brown - I very much agree with your point of view. My husband and I have not yet come to a clear determination about how we will educate our children, probably because we do not have any yet and therefore don't know their specific needs! 

Where I live I am not forced to teach anything which goes against scripture, however I am also not allowed to teach anything which would be considered offensive or exclusive to Christianity. So my reaction was more to the notion that unless teachers are clearly teaching Biblical principles they are in sin.

For example, the teacher I interned with is a very conservative Catholic and she went to all Catholic schools growing up. She does not try to be politically correct or a moral relativist. When she was teaching literature to the class, she would teach morals very clearly in a way that did not leave the door open for discussion. No one ever said anything about that. She was just careful not to associate it with scripture.


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## weinhold (Jul 31, 2007)

What grade and discipline do you teach?


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## ServantOfKing (Jul 31, 2007)

6th grade Language Arts (Focus is mainly on writing methods) and 7th grade Reading (Focus is mainly on reading methods). I also have the pleasure of teaching students with the "Gifted" label, meaning they like school


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## Reformed Baptist (Jul 31, 2007)

The stand I have taken in the business world, which is as secular as a public school, is I provide the service I am paid to provide. In your teaching writing methods, teach writing methods. That is what your paid to do. When the subject of morality/eithic/religion come up I speak freely of Christ, Scripture, and my beliefs. If that causes me the loss of my job, so be it. I will not hide my Christian faith or make excuses for it.


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## calgal (Jul 31, 2007)

I would think teaching in a public school is being salt and light to an unbelieving world.


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## Herald (Jul 31, 2007)

calgal said:


> I would think teaching in a public school is being salt and light to an unbelieving world.



Gail - I agree. And just as in the business world, if the school system requires to you to perform an immoral or unlawful act, you have the right to refuse even though it may cost you your job.


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## weinhold (Jul 31, 2007)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Gail - I agree. And just as in the business world, if the school system requires to you to perform an immoral or unlawful act, you have the right to refuse even though it may cost you your job.



Of course, this leads to a different and slightly more complex issue of choosing between two goods: Continuing to be salt and light by keeping one's job, or being salt and light once, then losing one's job. There are too many contingencies to make a hard and fast rule, but politeness is always a good rule of thumb. 

Besides being polite, I'll hazard another generalization that may be helpful. Consider that teaching a subject well, in itself, has the potential to be a powerful integration of one's faith in the academic community. Particularly in primary and secondary education, planting seeds is the objective. How does one witness in the public schools? By teaching well.


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## ServantOfKing (Aug 1, 2007)

weinhold said:


> Besides being polite, I'll hazard another generalization that may be helpful. Consider that teaching a subject well, in itself, has the potential to be a powerful integration of one's faith in the academic community. Particularly in primary and secondary education, planting seeds is the objective. How does one witness in the public schools? By teaching well.



That is really an excellent point (Working as unto the Lord!)... I think that it is definitely true that as a Christian teacher, my faith is going to come out in everything I do whether it is subtle or not so subtle. 
It seems like it is possible to teach in a Christian way without using overtly Christian curriculum.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 1, 2007)

Daniel served in an un-Godly Kingdom. Yes, he refused to do anything that was against his beliefs and suffered for it, but still wanted to point it out.


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## ServantOfKing (Aug 1, 2007)

Daniel is definitely a good example. 
If they asked me to teach moral relativism or that abortion/ homosexuality is okay I would refuse... Those are hills I'll die on. 
I'm not going to die on the hill to teach the Christian curriculum I want to teach or something like that. 

On another note -
Adam, my husband and I just took a road trip last month and ate dinner in Hershey. We had to take pictures of the Hershey corporate offices/ chocolate factory.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 1, 2007)

Wow, did you take the trolley tour? They drive right by my house several times a day.


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## AV1611 (Aug 1, 2007)

Do you not have church schools in the US funded by the state?

What about Public schools (in the UK sense) that are "Christian"?


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 1, 2007)

No Church schools are funded by the government here and no "Public" Christian schools either. The ACLU would have a field day if there were such a thing.


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## VictorBravo (Aug 1, 2007)

AV1611 said:


> Do you not have church schools in the US funded by the state?
> 
> What about Public schools (in the UK sense) that are "Christian"?



I understand the UK "public school" to be what we would call a private boarding school. Adam is right--those don't receive state money either if they are a Christian school.

But private universities and colleges for the most part do receive federal and state money through grants and financial aid (there are a few notable exceptions that refuse any govt. funding). That aid comes with all sorts of strings attached which tend to make the institutions more secular, regardless of their charter.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 1, 2007)

> That aid comes with all sorts of strings attached which tend to make the institutions more secular, regardless of their charter.



Yep, Government money is a curse, even in my industry (Child care). Thankfully I work for a totally PRIVATE child care facility!


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## AV1611 (Aug 1, 2007)

Interesting.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 1, 2007)

ServantOfKing said:


> Daniel is definitely a good example.
> If they asked me to teach moral relativism or that abortion/ homosexuality is okay I would refuse... Those are hills I'll die on.
> I'm not going to die on the hill to teach the Christian curriculum I want to teach or something like that.
> 
> ...



And in many states, teachers are desperately needed. So even if you take a stand, there is a good chance you won't get fired. A worst case scenario for a principal is to fire a teacher and then hunt for a new one in the middle of the year. It will make the school look really bad and will ruin the tenor of the classroom for the rest of the year. 

So, teachers have a little bit of leverage in this regard.


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## Davidius (Aug 1, 2007)

I noticed in one of the polls that many of the people on the board do not support the concept of public education for religious and/or political reasons. Would it be hypocritical for such a person to teach in a public school? This is a dilemma that I have faced as one who wants to become some kind of teacher.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 1, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> I noticed in one of the polls that many of the people on the board do not support the concept of public education for religious and/or political reasons. Would it be hypocritical for such a person to teach in a public school? This is a dilemma that I have faced as one who wants to become some kind of teacher.



It really depends on the reasons, case by case. Did Daniel really have a choice? In a sense he did, in a sense he didn't. He refused to compromise his principles, sure, but he didn't have a choice on taking a pagan job.


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## Davidius (Aug 1, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> It really depends on the reasons, case by case. Did Daniel really have a choice? In a sense he did, in a sense he didn't. He refused to compromise his principles, sure, but he didn't have a choice on taking a pagan job.



So considering that no one is forced to be one, would it then be hypocritical for one who is ideologically opposed to public education to become a public school teacher?


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 1, 2007)

I think it would be hypocritical for the person opposed to public education to be a public education teacher, yes. In fact, I think that's the definition of hypocrisy.


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## tdowns (Aug 1, 2007)

*Call me a hypocrite!*

I guess, I'm a hypocrite then, I find the public school system so problematic, it kills me sometimes, the waste, the agenda, the politics...I could go on, but I don't have time...

But, to be blessed with a job, that allows me to be in the lives of sometimes 100 different kids each year, have them see me read my bible at my desk, have them hear me debunk evolution, promote abstinence before marriage, have me promote at least the idea of a Theist world view, and since 6th graders learn World History, the Judeo/Christian World view...to bring to them a strong Christian Male role model where often they have no male role model, to teach Math, to host bible clubs...etc...I think the Good Lord has provided me a place to use my skills, to promote reason, education, and His name, in an environment, that many cross oceans to try to find...and call themselves missionaries...so if the state's going to pay me to do it (I have my own kids to feed). Do I agree with public education? No. Do I teach in public schools? Yes....so call me a hypocrite! 

And really, Daniel, stood against the obvious things against his faith, but he allowed the "system" he was in, to pay him, feed him, house him, etc.......so.......


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 1, 2007)

Trevor, I didn't want to get into this really, but I felt David wanted a clear cut answer so I gave him one. I worked for a place I thought was horrid (it's ways, teachings, etc.) for 12 years in hopes of making a change, witnessing, etc. BUT I did not go around saying how evil this place was while I was there, nor would I have put down someone for placing their child there. Not saying you do those things either, but if someone is telling others they should not send their child into the public education system and yet teaching within it, I find that hypocritical still.


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## tdowns (Aug 1, 2007)

*Yeah....*

No worries brother....I know what you're saying.....I just posted a quick thought on the topic, and the hypocrite comment made a nice tie in...that's why I put the smiley...I love where you're coming from!


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## Davidius (Aug 1, 2007)

houseparent said:


> Trevor, I didn't want to get into this really, but I felt David wanted a clear cut answer so I gave him one. I worked for a place I thought was horrid (it's ways, teachings, etc.) for 12 years in hopes of making a change, witnessing, etc. BUT I did not go around saying how evil this place was while I was there, nor would I have put down someone for placing their child there. Not saying you do those things either, but if someone is telling others they should not send their child into the public education system and yet teaching within it, I find that hypocritical still.



Perhaps one could make the analogy of firefighters rescuing citizens from a burning building. He would keep others from going in but, being better qualified in certain ways to help those inside, himself goes into the building to help those inside?? 

I dunno, maybe there's a better illustration.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 1, 2007)

It doesn't matter. You are supposed to keep your religious convictions at home. Live hyphenated-secular lives.


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## Pilgrim (Aug 1, 2007)

ServantOfKing said:


> I must say, I was struck rather harshly by the post in the Family Forum about Christian Education and Church Discipline. I would think that if parents were to be held to the fire for sending their children to public school, then surely the teachers should be incriminated too.
> I do have strong opinions about this and since I am honestly curious as to what others think about it and what you think scripture teaches, I will hold my tongue in order to receive the wisdom of others.
> My question is:
> Is it better to obey authority and follow the rules about what I can and cannot say regarding religion?
> Or should I disobey the authority and teach as some would call it, "the Christian world view?"



Jobs in today's corporate environment (especially) in which one can teach the Christian world view are few and far between. To be consistent, those who would forbid Christian's from teaching in "Molech's schools" should forbid any secular employment whatsoever where one would be forbidden to preach the gospel freely and openly.


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## Answerman (Aug 1, 2007)

In answer to this question, I think Greg Bahnsen sheds some Biblical light on this subject in this lecture.

http://www.cmfnow.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=2304

There is a great quote in this lecture as to whether a Christian should be a teacher in a public school and I will post the quote as soon as I get the time.

Anyone interested in this subject really should listen to this lecture, he answers most of the controversial questions surrounding this subject with such clear Biblical reasoning that it is hard to disagree with him.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 1, 2007)

Pilgrim said:


> Jobs in today's corporate environment (especially) in which one can teach the Christian world view are few and far between. To be consistent, those who would forbid Christian's from teaching in "Molech's schools" should forbid any secular employment whatsoever where one would be forbidden to preach the gospel freely and openly.



And we also need to ask if teaching Christian worldview always equals "thus saith the Lord?" Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. 

Does it mean showing Christian underpinnings in each subject, or how the bible relates to all of life? It might, but if it does then I know quite a few seminary professors who can't even do that.

Whatever it means, it is far beyond a clear-cut yes or no.


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## Answerman (Aug 1, 2007)

Pilgrim said:


> Jobs in today's corporate environment (especially) in which one can teach the Christian world view are few and far between. To be consistent, those who would forbid Christian's from teaching in "Molech's schools" should forbid any secular employment whatsoever where one would be forbidden to preach the gospel freely and openly.



Chris, I disagree, there is a distinction in working in a teaching position, where by definition you are giving instructions and a position where you are expected to do some task like making widgets. If by law, you cannot teach a subject as a Christian ought to, you would be disloyal to God if you obeyed the law, and disloyal to your employer if disobeyed that law. Either way you would not be giving a good Christian witness. So there is a difference based on the job description.

I would like to elaborate more, when time permits.


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