# Non-resident Ph.D Suggestions



## Bennett

I would like to work on a Ph.D at a Reformed school, but I am not able to move off to school. Any suggestions of a non-resident program. I have considered Highlands and WEST and am leaning toward Highlands. Are there other good options out there of which I am unaware?


----------



## DMcFadden

What is your goal? Most non-resident programs will be GREAT for your education and growth, inexpensive, and will fit in with your current work schedule without leaving home. However, they will rarely translate into anything that will allow you to teach in a seminary. If you are interested in rounding out your education with Reformed studies, it could be GREAT. If, however, you are looking at some professional teaching down the road, it will probably not get you where you want to go.


----------



## Kevin

Dennis, is that a picture of you baptising a baby?


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian




----------



## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

Jackson, Georgia......

You're not 5 minutes from a family friend up there, and it's about as rural as you can get in NE Georgia.

Unfortunately, there are not many options that I am personally aware of regarding doctorate level studies in Northern Georgia (spent months researching in-state before even looking into out of state options).

As Dennis says, it also depends on what your goals are. If you wish to teach in a seminary, non-resident programs probably will not get you in such a position.


----------



## Bennett

DMcFadden said:


> What is your goal? Most non-resident programs will be GREAT for your education and growth, inexpensive, and will fit in with your current work schedule without leaving home. However, they will rarely translate into anything that will allow you to teach in a seminary. If you are interested in rounding out your education with Reformed studies, it could be GREAT. If, however, you are looking at some professional teaching down the road, it will probably not get you where you want to go.



My first desire is to pastor, but I would like to be in a position where I am able to train men in the future, perhaps in a seminary setting. Maybe I completely misunderstood in regards to residency. PhDs in Europe are exclusively research degrees so apart from a library for research there is no advantage to being "on-campus." I know there have are men who have graduated from Highlands like Derek Thomas and Mike McKelvey who have taught at RTS Jackson. I imagine there may be more of whom I am unaware. I would think a PhD from Aberdeen or Wales would be well regarded.

---------- Post added at 08:18 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:15 AM ----------




O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:


> Jackson, Georgia......
> 
> You're not 5 minutes from a family friend up there, and it's about as rural as you can get in NE Georgia.


 
Jackson, Ga is about midway between Macon and Atlanta on 75. Where are you at in Georgia and what church have you are you a part of?


----------



## Guido's Brother

Reformation International Theological Seminary.


----------



## Covenant Joel

SBTS now offers a PhD in a modular format, where you can do most of your studies at home, but come in for short courses a couple times a year. See here.

There are the options you've mentioned in the UK for distance studies, however, my understanding is they prefer not to let it be done by distance, though they will in some circumstances. There is one school in the UK that does focus on doctoral studies by distance (Greenwich School of Theology), however the degree actually comes form North-West University in South Africa.

There are a number of other schools in South Africa that do distance (UNISA, Stellenbosch [Vern Poythress got his theological degree from here, though after his doctorate in Math at Harvard], Zululand, some others). I've heard that it can be a great experience, is really cheap, but that many North American universities don't respect them.


----------



## Tim

Are their any conservative people at Stellenbosch any more?


----------



## ADKing

Whitefield Theological Seminary offers several PhD programs with no residency requirements. Whitefield Theological Seminary - Home


----------



## DMcFadden

Kevin said:


> Dennis, is that a picture of you baptising a baby?


 
Very funny. 

I just hold 'em, not wet 'em. That little girl holds such power, however, that I'm still hoping that my wife will be able to let her go and come home to me tonight from Fort Wayne.


----------



## DMcFadden

I was not trying to discourage you, Chad. I love distance education and am doing a program at Whitefield now. However, at my age, it is for enrichment (McFadden's crazy love of school) rather than preparation for teaching. If you follow some of the comments that Dr. Clark has made on the PB and elsewhere over the years, you will catch a feel for the disdain that many/most traditionally educated folks have for distance/non-residential programs.

Can you find people with non-traditional doctorates who are allowed to teach? Sure. Ken Gentry, R.C. Sproul, Jr., James White, etc. And, if memory serves me, neither John Frame nor R.C. Sproul, Sr., ever completed their dissertations in their traditional PhD programs. However, it is a VERY steep hill to climb. If you elect to skip the traditional PhD track, be prepared for rolled eyes, extra scrutiny, and the fact that many may not even bother to interview you after reading your C.V. 

Some even complain that regular seminary doctorates are not sufficient. I have even heard the opinion that PhDs from seminaries are not "equal to" or as worthy as those from universities. One Reformed scholar objects that he hates to read dissertations from PhD students at seminaries becuase they are seldom as scholarly as those from university PhDs. In other words, if you want to be hired by a guy who did his PhD at a prestige university, you may find your seminary issued or non-residential doctorate viewed with some suspicion. BTW, D.Min's are often looked upon as an ego-trip for pastors and not a "real" doctorate. My 450 pg. D.Min. dissertation with footnotes using/referencing 5 languages and a 35 pg. bibliography is a case in point. It would never get me in the door of an accredited seminary to teach.

I have an acquaintance who completed a South Africa distance learning PhD. He self-published a couple of scholarly books (two distance learning dissertations) and worked assiduously to get them placed in libraries around the country. Working all of the angles, he was at last check unable to get his foot in the door anywhere as a prof.

When you are talking about terminal degrees in theology and cognate disciplines, a major part of the experience is the "community of scholars" aspect. Even in the British model, students attend lectures and meet regularly with their mentors for supervision. I commend distance learning for those who a. cannot afford to attend a brick and mortar institution or for whom distance is a limitation; b. for those who are self-motivated to learn and do so by augmenting their distance efforts with face-to-face mentoring; and c. those like myself who do not need another degree but want to learn in a structured environment.

In my experience, distance learning is well worth the typically modest expenditure of money, will help you move through material in a structured way, and is a boon to lifelong learning. It is not, however, typically the best way to prepare for a teaching ministry.


----------



## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

Bennett said:


> Jackson, Ga is about midway between Macon and Atlanta on 75. Where are you at in Georgia and what church have you are you a part of?


Oh...I was thinking of the wrong city. I'll have to clarify with my dad at some point.

I'm about 5 minutes outside of downtown Buford in NW Gwinnett County. I've been attempting to get to a church for over a year, but living at home has presented less than ideal conditions for getting to one (Especially if it disagrees with the parents beliefs, which all of the reformed churches seem to).


----------



## Bennett

Thanks guys, a lot to think through. The SBTS modular PhD is not offered in any concentrations of which I am interested. I would like to focus on Historical Theology. I am not very familiar with Whitefield, is it accredited and well respected in the academic community?


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian

Whitefield is not accredited by any Department of Education appointed agency, by its own decision, not because it is not academically rigorous.


----------



## Irish Presbyterian

I would recommend going for Highland Theological College. The Phd is accredited by Aberdeen University and you will NOT loose any respect in the academy. A Phd from HTC is not the same as a Phd from an online seminary and you will have the added benefit of having a degree accredited by one of the top Universities in the UK. However, if you study at Highland or WEST you will have to spend a number of months over your 3-6 year period of study in Scotland or Wales. They are not 100% distance programs. I'd seriously look into either of these options.


----------



## larryjf

The UNACCREDITED school that i'm involved with is currently doing limited Ph.D. programs fully online.

We offer it in the following concentrations:
Reformed Theological Studies
Puritan Studies

The work consists of a 400 page dissertation with at least 100 works referenced.

Our program is only open to those already possessing a doctorate.

The North American Reformed Seminary


----------



## Bennett

Irish Presbyterian said:


> I would recommend going for Highland Theological College. The Phd is accredited by Aberdeen University and you will NOT loose any respect in the academy. A Phd from HTC is not the same as a Phd from an online seminary and you will have the added benefit of having a degree accredited by one of the top Universities in the UK. However, if you study at Highland or WEST you will have to spend a number of months over your 3-6 year period of study in Scotland or Wales. They are not 100% distance programs. I'd seriously look into either of these options.



This was basically my thought on HTC. It sounds like a great program, reformed, and a top university. I am also excited about the possibility of working with Nick Needham. I am aware of the partial residence requirement, but I think it might be feasible. Thanks for your thoughts.


----------



## N. Eshelman

larryjf said:


> The UNACCREDITED school that i'm involved with is currently doing limited Ph.D. programs fully online.
> 
> We offer it in the following concentrations:
> Reformed Theological Studies
> Puritan Studies
> 
> The work consists of a 400 page dissertation with at least 100 works referenced.
> 
> Our program is only open to those already possessing a doctorate.
> 
> The North American Reformed Seminary


 
Just for clarification- why in the world would you only offer doctorates to people with doctorates?

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:09 PM ----------




Irish Presbyterian said:


> I would recommend going for Highland Theological College. The Phd is accredited by Aberdeen University and you will NOT loose any respect in the academy. A Phd from HTC is not the same as a Phd from an online seminary and you will have the added benefit of having a degree accredited by one of the top Universities in the UK. However, if you study at Highland or WEST you will have to spend a number of months over your 3-6 year period of study in Scotland or Wales. They are not 100% distance programs. I'd seriously look into either of these options.



Sounds tough- HAVING to spend time in Scotland or Wales. The crosses that some have to bear!


----------



## larryjf

nleshelman said:


> Just for clarification- why in the world would you only offer doctorates to people with doctorates?


 
We have a separate Board that deals specifically with the Ph.D. program and they decided to offer it, for now, to those already possessing doctorates. The idea behind it is two-fold: 1) It's a new program and we want a very limited number of students in it; 2) Since it's a dissertation-only program we wanted to ensure that a high level of academics was already attained by the student.

In a sense we use it in place of the more common method of requiring 3 years of coursework followed by comprehensive exams prior to the dissertation phase.


----------



## Ivan

larryjf said:


> nleshelman said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just for clarification- why in the world would you only offer doctorates to people with doctorates?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We have a separate Board that deals specifically with the Ph.D. program and they decided to offer it, for now, to those already possessing doctorates. The idea behind it is two-fold: 1) It's a new program and we want a very limited number of students in it; 2) Since it's a dissertation-only program we wanted to ensure that a high level of academics was already attained by the student.
> 
> In a sense we use it in place of the more common method of requiring 3 years of coursework followed by comprehensive exams prior to the dissertation phase.
Click to expand...

 
May one get a D.Min at TNARS and then the Ph.D. and who is offering the Ph.D.?


----------



## larryjf

Ivan said:


> May one get a D.Min at TNARS and then the Ph.D. and who is offering the Ph.D.?


 
Yes, one may get a D.Min. at TNARS and then a Ph.D. at TNARS...if that's what you're asking.


----------



## Ivan

larryjf said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> 
> May one get a D.Min at TNARS and then the Ph.D. and who is offering the Ph.D.?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, one may get a D.Min. at TNARS and then a Ph.D. at TNARS...if that's what you're asking.
Click to expand...

 
Yes, Larry, that's what I'm asking. Thanks! Very interesting.


----------

