# Theology @ Saddleback



## Robin (Oct 17, 2006)

Journey to Moses 
Join us for this new study starting November 1!

Moses journeyed from the palaces of Egypt through the plagues and Passover, crossed the Red Sea, and wandered around the desert. Follow Moses as he takes the Hebrew people out of slavery toward God's promised land. See how Jesus is the true Passover Lamb of atonement. The three-week study begins on Wednesday, November 1, from 7 to 9 p.m. in Room 404. The cost is $10 per person or $15 per couple. 

http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/home/todaystory.asp?id=8312

Behold....the true Gospel (if it really IS that) is for sale at the "church" of the Purpose Driven.


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## BobVigneault (Oct 17, 2006)

Robin, you should know better. The gospel is FREE, the flashy, hip and entertaining packaging needed to deliver the 'old, old story' will cost 10 bucks. It's great they are willing to save the second person for half price.


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 17, 2006)

Nonetheless, it sounds like a good class. We confessionals may not see eye to eye with Warren and company, but unlike many of the popular mainline guys, Saddleback does emphasize teaching and learning the word of God. No matter who promotes searching the scriptures, it can only be a good thing. Truth is truth.


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## BobVigneault (Oct 17, 2006)

I know what you're trying to say Christopher and can't we play nice and all that but I have come to expect a severe lack of integrity in Saddlback's presentations. This is the same church that has the Hula Ministry http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/magnification/fullstory.asp?id=6458 and will use Global Warming pseudo-science to add to it's mega-rolls. No, I must ask, can anything good come out of this church? They show no restraint in their willingness to compromise.

Do you think they will present the Exodus in it's context of the covenant people and their Sovereign King? They won't, it will be a retelling that makes the story all about us. How the leadership qualities of Moses can be used in the workplace. How should we deal with complaining? How can we better face OUR "pharoahs". How God changed Moses' life in 40 days on Mt. Sinai. (That last one is from Warren's book.) {Rant off}

[Edited on 10-17-2006 by BobVigneault]


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## Romans922 (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Robin_
> Journey to Moses
> Join us for this new study starting November 1!
> 
> ...



Wow, Moses did a lot. And I always thought God did it.


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> I know what you're trying to say Christopher and can't we play nice and all that but I have come to expect a severe lack of integrity in Saddlback's presentations. This is the same church that has the Hula Ministry http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/magnification/fullstory.asp?id=6458 and will use Global Warming pseudo-science to add to it's mega-rolls. No, I must ask, can anything good come out of this church? They show no restraint in their willingness to compromise.
> 
> Do you think they will present the Exodus in it's context of the covenant people and their Sovereign King? They won't, it will be a retelling that makes the story all about us. How the leadership qualities of Moses can be used in the workplace. How should we deal with complaining? How can we better face OUR "pharoahs". How God changed Moses' life in 40 days on Mt. Sinai. (That last one is from Warren's book.) {Rant off}
> ...



Yeah, I can agree with you Bob. I do not support Warren and Saddleback and their false teaching. I don't know what approach will be taken when teaching this class and unfortunately chances are neither will many who actually attend Saddleback. I am just still thankful that they still promote searching the scriptures. These false churches are dangerous, but as long as people are still directed to read the scriptures then we can trust they will see what the word of God actually says. During my seeker church days, it was not the scriptures that frustrated me into reexamining what I believe; it was the church that was obviously ignorant of what the scriptures said. Unlike many at that church, I searched the scriptures and saw clearly that the church was offline. We should be concerned about Saddleback type churches, but we should be even more concerned about those churches that do not encourage Bible study and rely more on take my word (or various authors and books) for it motivational talks. 

Did anyone else see that Warren has a book out dedicated to the method of studying the scriptures? It may be full of false hermeneutics, I don’t know, but it at least pushes people to read the Bible and not simply his books.


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## non dignus (Oct 17, 2006)

I've 'got' the syllabus. 


A. Moses was good.

B. Pharoah was bad.

C. Be like Moses.


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## Ivan (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by non dignus_
> I've 'got' the syllabus.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks! You saved me ten bucks.


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## jaybird0827 (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Did anyone else see that Warren has a book out dedicated to the method of studying the scriptures? It may be full of false hermeneutics, I don’t know, but it at least pushes people to read the Bible and not simply his books.



The ends justify the means?


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## Romans922 (Oct 17, 2006)

We should be like Moses and sin against God.


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## cih1355 (Oct 17, 2006)

Churches like Saddleback don't have Christ-centered preaching. They preach moral principles and self-help messages that can meet people's needs. When people hear that kind of teaching, they won't say, "I see how glorious Christ is". They will say, "I have a set of principles to live by."


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## alwaysreforming (Oct 17, 2006)

I love what you said here; I'm going to have to "borrow" that from time to time if you don't mind....



> _Originally posted by cih1355_
> ....When people hear that kind of teaching, they won't say, "I see how glorious Christ is". They will say, "I have a set of principles to live by."


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## non dignus (Oct 17, 2006)

> The cost is $10 per person or $15 per couple.



That sounds purpose driven to me.


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## jaybird0827 (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Robin_
> Journey to Moses
> Join us for this new study starting November 1!
> 
> Moses journeyed from the palaces of Egypt through the plagues and Passover, crossed the Red Sea, and wandered around the desert. Follow Moses as he takes the Hebrew people out of slavery toward God's promised land. See how Jesus is the true Passover Lamb of atonement. ...



This has a Swindollesque ring to it.


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## cih1355 (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by alwaysreforming_
> I love what you said here; I'm going to have to "borrow" that from time to time if you don't mind....
> 
> 
> ...



I do not mind if you borrow what I posted.


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## py3ak (Oct 18, 2006)

Well, I suppose there may be a lot of moralism. I don't spend a lot of time tracking stuff like this. But the course description does say that you will see how Jesus is the Passover Lamb. It's a basic point, but it's right. And it's not, "Be like Moses".


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## non dignus (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by py3ak_
> Well, I suppose there may be a lot of moralism. I don't spend a lot of time tracking stuff like this. But the course description does say that you will see how Jesus is the Passover Lamb. It's a basic point, but it's right. And it's not, "Be like Moses".



Thanks Ruben,
For tempering our sarcasm. Charity is a virtue. And I'm sure you agree that love does not tolerate error. Like you, I don't track this stuff much, but I wonder what it really means to have the "Passover Lamb of Atonement" in the purpose driven framework. Frankly it's scary to even contemplate, knowing that millions of Christians adhere to his teaching.

To give Rick Warren credit, I saw him on Larry King and was very impressed with the way he presented Christianity to the viewing world.


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Yep.

God is sovereign and His word is truth no matter who directs people towards it. I thank God that the people at Saddleback are directed to the word of God.

I like Paul's attitude expressed in his letter to the Philippians:



> _From Chapter 1:12-20_
> Now I want you to know, brethren, that my circumstances have turned out for the greater progress of the gospel, so that my imprisonment in the cause of Christ has become well known throughout the whole praetorian guard and to everyone else, and that most of the brethren, trusting in the Lord because of my imprisonment, have far more courage to speak the word of God without fear. Some, to be sure, are preaching Christ even from envy and strife, but some also from good will; the latter do it out of love, knowing that I am appointed for the defense of the gospel; the former proclaim Christ out of selfish ambition rather than from pure motives, thinking to cause me distress in my imprisonment. What then? *Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed; and in this I rejoice. Yes, and I will rejoice*, for I know that this will turn out for my deliverance through your prayers and the provision of the Spirit of Jesus Christ, according to my earnest expectation and hope, that I will not be put to shame in anything, but that with all boldness, Christ will even now, as always, be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death.


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## non dignus (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> ...



Don't you think our circumstances are different here today than in Rome in that day? Whereas we have achieved near saturation here in modern America, there the gospel was virtually unheard of.

False teaching can serve as an inoculation, if you will, to the truth of the thing. Once something is learned the wrong way it's often very difficult to unlearn it.


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## py3ak (Oct 18, 2006)

David, of course. All I am saying is that I don't keep up with Warren: I don't approve of him charging 10 bucks for the course. But if the course description is all we have to go by (until someone gets the material on line or gives a report) then it's good that they realize that Jesus is the meaning the passover lamb existed for.


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## Anton Bruckner (Oct 18, 2006)

"Dancing Hula Girls" :bigsmile::bigsmile:
Maximus: Are you not Entertained 

MegaChurch=Entertainment Driven.


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## Robin (Oct 19, 2006)

Maximus: "What we do in life echoes in eternity!"

With all due respect Christopher...make no mistake, Christ is NOT preached at Saddleback. Rick Warren is and so is the religion of the natural-man.

Is there a remnant of the true-elect among false churches? Yes. 

Can God save even admist idolatry and apostasy? No doubt.

Even so, this will not excuse the immense culpability of Pastor Warren for causing the little ones to stumble.

Note here the back-handed ad hominum regarding doctrine with the push for Rick's wife to instate a more relevant theology:

*Basic Christianity - Foundations:*From Saddleback teachers Kay Warren and Tom Halladay comes a purpose-driven curriculum designed to help new believers see everything around, above, and within them through the filter of God's truth. Too often, doctrine is presented as boring, complicated, not relevant to one's everyday life. However, a Christian worldview based on God's essential truths has a lifelong impact on the way people look at everything around them, above them, and within them. The twenty-four sessions in this kit cover the biblical perspectives about God, Jesus, the Holy Spirit, Revelation, Creation, Salvation, Sanctification, Good and Evil, the Afterlife, and the Second Coming. Participant's guide costs $15. Foundations is facilitated by Mike King.

source: http://www.nsbcweatherford.com/bible_study.htm

 

Forget these guys - they're irrelevant & boring!


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