# ***URGENT*** NEED counsel and advice about my Grandfather's RC funeral



## CDM (Feb 21, 2006)

I apologize if this post should be under a different section of the PB. 

My Grandfather died yesterday afternoon. He, my grandmother, five of their six children are Roman Catholic. The one that is not is my mother who is a bible-believing Christian (PCA).

I do not want to come off as callous as I seek advice on what to do. A little background will help. I am a part of the PCA. I adhere to the original 1647 WCF completely. For those uninformed chapter 25 sec. 6 "œOf the Church" says:

_There is no other head of the Church but the Lord Jesus Christ. Nor can the Pope of Rome, in any sense, be head thereof. but is that Antichrist, that man of sin, and son of perdition, that exalts himself, in the Church, against Christ and all that is called God._

Again, I completely agree. For lack of time, I must be blunt. The mass is a disgusting blasphemy that deserves condemnation and disdain. I know of nothing I abhor more. 

My grandfather´s funeral is on Thursday 2/23 or Friday 2/24. I am terribly vexed as to how and what I should do at the service. The viewing will be fine because it is probably at the funeral home and not at their "church." The funeral, the following day is the problem. I know Rome. They do not miss a chance to perform their "œbloodless sacrifice" that is the Mass. 

I don´t even feel comfortable entering into a roman "œchurch." My 2 brothers and 5 of our cousins are pall bearers. Imagine I go into the building, to pay respects, if they begin their blasphemous ceremony before the funeral stuff starts; I am not sure how I´ll react. I hope the reader understands. Let me give a picture of my desire and disposition. When their "œpriest" says, "œstand," I will sit. When he says, "œsing," I will pray. When he says, "œkneel," I will not move. Furthermore, I don´t want my 2 Christian brothers and their families including our mother to participate in this great idolatry either.

I want to best represent our Lord Jesus Christ. I, like all believers, am an ambassador of Christ. I hope my concern and anxiety is being communicated properly to you all.

Any and all, good and bad, advice is greatly appreciated. I seek godly, spiritual wisdom. Has anyone here been in this position before? What did you do and why?

Please pray for our family.


To God be the glory,
Chris


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## Augusta (Feb 21, 2006)




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## LadyFlynt (Feb 21, 2006)

I do not believe that any non-rc is expected to do anything other than sit.


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## BobVigneault (Feb 21, 2006)

My advice to you Chris is that you go and pay final respects to your grandfather. You ought to be the most winsome and delightful person at the funeral. This is not the occasion for you to preach or prove anything. You should support your family and the friends of your grandfather as if it was your spiritual service of worship. As much as it depends on you, you should seek to be at peace with everyone in attendance. 

I am speaking as one who came across as one big JERK to my own family for always thinking I had to prove something. I found they would listen to me more if I wasn't always in their face being contrary. This is a no brainer brother. Be gentle and let your speech be seasoned with grace. Do not bow but stand when scripture is read, take an accademic approach to the service. Watch and learn but hold your criticism for us on the board. Come back here and vent all you want. Support those who are in sorrow over the loss of your grandfather. God bless.


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## biblelighthouse (Feb 21, 2006)

1. Go to the funeral.

2. Don't take the mass or go through any of their idolatrous liturgy.



Do these two things, and it will be clear that you are NOT a Roman Catholic, but that you DO love your grandfather, and that you want to pay your last respects to him. 

I believe this course of action would honor God.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 21, 2006)

In fact, perhaps you can ask to be given the opportunity to speak a few words... you could "sneak" in the Gospel!


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## CDM (Feb 21, 2006)

Thank you every one for your kind words and good advice. I really do appreciate it.



> In fact, perhaps you can ask to be given the opportunity to speak a few words... you could "sneak" in the Gospel!



:bigsmile: That's exactly what I plan to do. And it would be "tailored" for a papist, too! Pray that my heart will be full of compassion.

Any suggestions on how I should exhort my believing family (Dad and his wife, Mom, 2 brothers) to not participate in the Mass? 

BTW, my dad and his wife, I, and my two brothers, along with our wives were converted within the last 5 years.


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## Arch2k (Feb 21, 2006)

Chris,

One last tidbit for you. 

1) As others have said, there is nothing inherantly wrong with going to a RCC while not participating in the worship and as the Westminster Larger Catechism (Q. 108) says:



> disapproving, detesting, opposing, all false worship



While this is true above, I think it also important to keep in mind that funeral services in themselves can become very supersticious. That is what lead (I believe it was) Rutherford to say something to the effect of "A person needs not any more service or welcome out of this world then he receives when he enters." 

People tend to treat the funeral or service as their "last respects" or to "say their goodbyes." We have to be careful, because the deceased person is already gone. The Lord in his good providence has already taken him/her.

Not to sway you either way, just some thoughts to keep in mind.

My condolences to you and your family.

[Edited on 2-21-2006 by Jeff_Bartel]


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## turmeric (Feb 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by mangum_
> Thank you every one for your kind words and good advice. I really do appreciate it.
> 
> 
> ...



You could always throw in a quote from Augustine or St. Anselm.

I would tell them what you plan to do and why, and let their consciences be their guides. I don't know how far your wife takes submission, but you might be able to tell her to do what you do. I'm so glad so many of your family are converted! Praise God!


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## fredtgreco (Feb 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by mangum_
> Thank you every one for your kind words and good advice. I really do appreciate it.
> 
> 
> ...



Chris,

I've gotten on this late, so I can just echo the advice given by Bob and seconded by others. I know this difficulty. I am Italian and Polish. Almost my entire family is RC. What I would advise that you do with your believing family is to exhort them not to take part in the Mass (i.e. receive communion) _out of respect for the Catholics_ and to keep their own convictions. You can (honestly) tell them that Roman Catholic theology forbids a non-Catholic from participating in the sacrament. This should put at ease any conflict about honoring your grandfather or his memory. It is out of respect, as well as conviction, that Protestants should not participate.

I hope this helps.


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## rmwilliamsjr (Feb 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by biblelighthouse_
> 1. Go to the funeral.
> 
> 2. Don't take the mass or go through any of their idolatrous liturgy.
> ...




i was posed with a similiar situation when my next door neighbor's mom died.
the family is spanish speaking Roman Catholic. 
i don't think i compromised by going to the service and the wake. I listened carefully to the sermon and left when the communion part started. when asked later why i left i had the chance to talk about the difference between the RC mass and the Lord's Supper. Plus i was able to talk to them about the sermon.
i was extraordinarily uncomfortable and kept reminding myself that i was not there to worship, but to honor my relationship with the family next door. i really think God understands .... and approves.


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## R. Scott Clark (Feb 21, 2006)

Chris,

For what it's worth, I think Bob is correct. A funeral is no place for potentially confusing non-verbal messages. 

Fred is correct. You are not eligible to receive communion in a Roman church.

Go, be gracious. Don't perjure yourself, but don't pick a fight.

I've been in some pretty horrible "Protestant" or "evangelical" funerals/memorials that were every bit as offensive as any Roman mass.

If you had opportunity to quote a well chosen quotation from Augustine or an even earlier father on faith in Jesus and his grace, that might be appropriate.

It might help to think of a funeral not as an ecclesiastical matter, though held in a church, but a family matter. They are parallel, in that regard, to weddings. They are private, family gatherings not "stated services." 

Grace,

rsc


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## historyb (Feb 21, 2006)

Hi,

I was a RC and I have to agree, go there as not to cause a scene. My momma always said "Can't say something nice, don't say nothing at all." I know a bit cleche. I'll pray for you and your family. Remember be gentle as a dove. My .02 cents


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## LadyFlynt (Feb 22, 2006)

Actually, from having read a note to the visitors when visiting the basilica in St Louis before moving (and from having attended services with a couple of friends whom were catholic)...the RC prefers you to NOT take communion unless you have prior permission from BOTH the priest AND your own pastor. Thus you are not expected to anyhow.


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## Gregg (Feb 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> I do not believe that any non-rc is expected to do anything other than sit.


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