# The Casualties of Decisionism



## buggy (Nov 26, 2009)

Just recalled how some youths that I knew departed from the faith, and I was grieved by how quick it happened.

A girl could turn from someone who said her salvation testimony to a postmodernist in just three/four months time. Another guy turned from a hardcore fundie to a Dawkins-type atheist in just about a year!

Which makes me wonder at how the gospel came to them in the 1st place: was it even preached biblically or were they manipulated (either with prosperity-teachings or with guilt) into "making a decision"? I'm afraid the 2nd case is the most likely.

Can't help but remember what Scripture says, "Work out your salvation with fear and trembling."

Any thoughts?


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## William Price (Nov 26, 2009)

When there is no true Gospel, there is no true conversion. This is why we must continue in diligence to present and proclaim true Gospel, not just preachers, but each and every believer. This decision idolatry is heresy, because man has the final word in our lives, not God. It is blasphemy, turning man unto an idol of self salvation.

They went out from us, because they never were of us. I say this not in harshness, but in sincere truth.


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## au5t1n (Nov 26, 2009)

I have seen this a lot too. Decisionism is definitely at fault. "With every head bowed and every eye closed...Okay, you're all born again now. And it doesn't matter if you fall away later because 'Once saved, always saved.'" Eternal security is dangerous in Arminian hands.

-----Added 11/26/2009 at 09:49:57 EST-----

I grieve for many friends I have seen go this way.


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## William Price (Nov 26, 2009)

Decisional regeneration is the greatest tool of satan in modern Christianity in relation to soteriology. Sadly enough, far too many will carry the stench of Hell on their breath because of this doctrine. Thousands of youth are carried away by this, and my heart grieves for this.


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## Puritan Sailor (Nov 26, 2009)

buggy said:


> Just recalled how some youths that I knew departed from the faith, and I was grieved by how quick it happened.
> 
> A girl could turn from someone who said her salvation testimony to a postmodernist in just three/four months time. Another guy turned from a hardcore fundie to a Dawkins-type atheist in just about a year!
> 
> ...




I wouldn't put the blame on decisionism alone. 

Many times people recoil from the faith because that's their way of shouting down their conscience when they've chosen to sin. I heard one pastor describing an interaction with a college freshman, who suddenly abandon the church and became hostile to the gospel. He asked what moment that happened to her, and she finally confessed it was when she started living with her boyfreind. 

Other times they've been hurt badly by legalists or professing Christians. 

Even some children growing up in good churches choose to rebel, not just those emphasizing decisionism.


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## TheDow (Nov 26, 2009)

When coupled with decisionism (i.e. the Sinner's Prayer syndrome), the Once Saved, Always Saved mantra becomes especially dangerous. Even the initial questioning doesn't cause that particular house of cards to fall down...

"You mean once I'm saved, I can just do whatever I want, and I'm still saved?"

"Well, uh, er, we should be nice people, though..."

"Yeah, but I'm saved. I am safe? Forever? No matter what?"

"Well, the Bible does say that nothing can separate us from the love of God..."

Many in decisionistic churches use what they perceive as grace as an occasion to the flesh, and their Pastors don't even know enough to refute it. They rightly don't like the antinomianism coming out, but they can't really see past their Once Saved, Always Saved mantra to correct it.

This isn't ALL Arminian churches. Just some that I attended before the OPC.


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## rbcbob (Nov 26, 2009)

I have also seen the consequences of decisionism. However I have also seen men (and women) apostatize from solid churches.

In the past twenty years I have known of (and in some cases personally known) those who were members, and in some cases ministers, who were Confessional and Reformed professors of faith in Christ. 

Some of these left their wives for another woman.

One is in prison for theft of church funds.

One is in prison for child molestation and theft of church funds.
Some died of drug overdose.

One was executed in a drug deal gone bad.

One is now an atheist and Communist party leader in a European nation.

Perhaps we can learn from these that the safety of our souls rests not in our Confessions but in Christ alone who can keep us from stumbling and to present us faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy.


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## MMasztal (Nov 26, 2009)

William Price said:


> When there is no true Gospel, there is no true conversion. This is why we must continue in diligence to present and proclaim true Gospel, not just preachers, but each and every believer. This decision idolatry is heresy, because man has the final word in our lives, not God. It is blasphemy, turning man unto an idol of self salvation.
> 
> They went out from us, because they never were of us. I say this not in harshness, but in sincere truth.



Excellent point. I'd add that many churches are remiss in teaching/shepherding the new believer in the core tenets of the faith-- my own church included. A new believer's class isn't always sufficient especially if the class doesn't get deeply into the confessions/catechisms.


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## William Price (Nov 26, 2009)

MMasztal said:


> William Price said:
> 
> 
> > When there is no true Gospel, there is no true conversion. This is why we must continue in diligence to present and proclaim true Gospel, not just preachers, but each and every believer. This decision idolatry is heresy, because man has the final word in our lives, not God. It is blasphemy, turning man unto an idol of self salvation.
> ...


Brother, dare I say that the original fault lies in a Christless Gospel, and from there develops into a contaminated doctrine, which breeds false converts. May the Lord bring a restoration of love for true doctrine and theology back to His people, and let such a fire burn within our hearts so as not to compromise the true Gospel but present it wholly and rightly.


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## cpomann (Nov 26, 2009)

*God's Call*

I know and accept that to many I am considered fatalistic. To others Hyper-Calvinistic. And to a degree I accept that with the provision that I am totally committed to the fact that the Gospel should be preached to all men everywhere without exception. We do not know who God's Elect are. We are merely sowers of the seed. 

That said, if we accept as fact that the names of the elect are written in the Lamb's Book of Life from the foundation of the world, (which few Reformed or Calvinist or even Sovereign Grace devotees deny), how do we judge that those who seem to depart from the faith for a time are finally and totally removed from his grace. Many struggle with the Gospel. And until the day that God separates them from their mothers womb and fills them with the knowledge of the truth, will continue to struggle. I count no man as damned and will not. That is God's judgment. We cannot see into their hearts or know the workings of the Lord upon them in their rebellion. Without my rebellion and offense against God I should never have found need for a savior. My prayer is and remains that God would remove their stony heart and replace it with a heart of flesh, which of course he will do for those whose names are in the book.

Yes, there are hollow and empty confessions of faith. That is the work of man trying to build. We know that unless the Lord builds the house, he who builds, labors in vain. I go back to "Trust in the Lord with all your heart, lean not on your own understanding". God's perfect plan shall come to pass and all that are his shall spend eternity with Him in Glory.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 26, 2009)

buggy said:


> Just recalled how some youths that I knew departed from the faith, and I was grieved by how quick it happened.
> 
> A girl could turn from someone who said her salvation testimony to a postmodernist in just three/four months time. Another guy turned from a hardcore fundie to a Dawkins-type atheist in just about a year!
> 
> ...



I am not surprised. The parable of the sower shows that Christ Himself only got a 25% return!!!!! We must be careful not to look at the result and carry it back to the human source as always the issue. Perhaps God, in His infinite wisdom, is forcing them into exile, only to repent in the future and return to the fold. 

We can also not become 'decision phobiac's'. A persons way of expressing that "I decided to follow Christ' is not entirely false if they are given the understanding that the only reason they decided is because God made them decide. And this can be taught graciously with tenderness.


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