# The True History of Paedo-Communion by Matthew Winzer, free online



## NaphtaliPress (Jun 13, 2011)

With the author's blessing, I have posted Matthew Winzer's _The True History of Paedo-Communion _free online at the CPJ website. This was published in _The Confessional Presbyterian _journal volume 3 which is the 2007 issue.
The True History of Paedo-Communion by Matthew Winzer (CPJ 3, 2007) | The Confessional Presbyterian

Reactions: Like 1


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 13, 2011)

Wow, Thank You Very Much Chris and Reverend Winzer. The truth is very Liberating.


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## Reformation Monk (Jun 13, 2011)

Good article. 

This is one area, in my opinion where the Reformed Presbyterians kind of fall short. I personally do see the sacrament of communion as a sign and seal of the new covenant just as Passover was in the Old. Using the same "covenant language" to explain paedo-baptism I don't see how paedo-communion should be different. 

I don't believe that 1 Cor 11 is sufficient in this debate in where it is explicitly dealing with our personal state rather then guarding against sacramental abuses. 

For me it's not a hill to die on, I appreciate covenant theology and understand it and prefer it, but I also appreciate the Reformed Baptist Covenant Theology as well.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 13, 2011)

> For me it's not a hill to die on



Paul says that some died because they partook inappropriately. So I would say that it is a hill to die on.


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## Reformation Monk (Jun 13, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> > For me it's not a hill to die on
> 
> 
> 
> Paul says that some died because they partook inappropriately. So I would say that it is a hill to die on.



Again, it's all in how you interpret these versus. I personally see this as a warning against abusing the sacrament, I believe that this is in keeping with the context. The "self examination" is for the community to make sure not to be practicing the sacrament in a wrongful manner. 

In keeping with a more Reformed Presbyterian view in my opinion, the "self-examining" can be done by the Federal Head of the household; like Passover where the whole household partook of the Passover meal which of course included the breaking of bread and the sharing of the cup.


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## Dearly Bought (Jun 13, 2011)

David, I would recommend reading a few helpful books written on this subject to better understand the confessionally Reformed view:


Children at the Lord's Table? by Dr. Cornel Venema
Daddy, May I Take Communion? by Dr. Leonard Coppes​

There is no reason to assume that everyone in the household partook of the sacrament of the Passover under the Old Covenant.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 13, 2011)

> like Passover where the whole household partook of the Passover meal which of course included the breaking of bread and the sharing of the cup.



Faith Presbyterian Church Reformed

I recommend you read Dr. Bacon here on who ate the Passover meal.


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## au5t1n (Jun 13, 2011)

I was surprised to read of James Jordan's claim (citing Joseph Bingham) that infants were no sooner baptized than admitted to the Lord's Supper. Is he really shoving bread and wine down the throats of newborn babies?


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## MW (Jun 13, 2011)

austinww said:


> I was surprised to read of James Jordan's claim (citing Joseph Bingham) that infants were no sooner baptized than admitted to the Lord's Supper. Is he really shoving bread and wine down the throats of newborn babies?


 
The article only traces the subject to the 5th century. It might be worthwhile writing a second article which examines the literature through to the 12th or 16th century. The reality is, where paedocommunion did come to be practised, it wasn't participation in "the Lord's supper" as we know it. One custom included nothing more than wetting the lips of the baptised infant in anticipation of future participation. The principle to be gleaned is that claims relating to historical practice should not assume present customs when interpreting ancient records. Failure to apply this principle characterises pro-paedocommunion historiography.


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## Shawn Mathis (Jun 13, 2011)

Thank you for that helpful article.
Of note is the sloppy scholarship used in citing sources--a not uncommon problem in many debates. I'm glad Mr. Winzer did the hard work.

As for the assumption that the LS = Passover see Dr. Coppes' work.


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## Reformation Monk (Jun 13, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> > like Passover where the whole household partook of the Passover meal which of course included the breaking of bread and the sharing of the cup.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Boliver, 

That was a good, albeit lengthy read, but I had always thought that the whole family participated in the Passover meal. This helps me to understand the Reformed Presbyterian position better.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 13, 2011)

Reformation Monk said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > > like Passover where the whole household partook of the Passover meal which of course included the breaking of bread and the sharing of the cup.
> ...



Your welcome


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## Shawn Mathis (Jun 14, 2011)

armourbearer said:


> It might be worthwhile writing a second article which examines the literature through to the 12th or 16th century.



Rev. Winzer, Do you know what a typical age for admission of the table was during the Reformation and later? I recall Prof. Strange discovering that 
even Solomon Stoddard expected a age around 12 (apparently some were claiming he practiced paedocommunion).


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## Quickened (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks for sharing this resource with us!!! It was a topic i was just thinking about studying


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## MW (Jun 14, 2011)

Shawn Mathis said:


> Rev. Winzer, Do you know what a typical age for admission of the table was during the Reformation and later? I recall Prof. Strange discovering that
> even Solomon Stoddard expected a age around 12 (apparently some were claiming he practiced paedocommunion).



One source of information is to be found in the various dogmatics. Some argue that the Lord's supper is only for adult believers. See, for example, Heinrich Heppe's Reformed Dogmatics, and the quotations from Maresius (p. 627), Riissen (p. 627), and Beza (pp. 655, 656); Ames' Marrow, p. 212.


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## Esther W. (Jun 14, 2011)

Reformation Monk said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > > For me it's not a hill to die on
> ...




Would it not be an abuse for a husband/father to make the decision for his wife/child to partake? We are not saved on the faith of any other, but of faith we our-self have. How then could anyone examine us, but our self?


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## KMK (Jun 15, 2011)

> In keeping with a more Reformed Presbyterian view in my opinion, the "self-examining" can be done by the Federal Head of the household;



Do you have a source for this?



> WCF 25:3 Unto this catholic visible Church Christ has given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God,



The sacraments are given to the church, not the family.


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