# Poor little mega-church pastor...



## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PvJ4Vw9ZocM


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## bookslover (Aug 11, 2007)

Wow. 8 minutes - and I spent the whole time waiting for this guy to mention something important, like, you know, the gospel, the Bible, feeding the sheep - you know, little things like that...


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## PastorFaulk (Aug 11, 2007)

*In Defense,*

I think that pulling a single video blog and jumping on a pastor who shares truth every week is a bit low. As a pastor serving full time in a church I did identify with much of what he said. The post was not directed at non believers, but other pastors. If you are elders, I think there is a lesson here for you. I am blessed by our church that they have seen how difficult it is to stay energized and focussed, and blessed us with the rest EYjr talks about. It is truly amizing how many non scriptual expectations are put on pastors, and it is good to see how a person who has had to deal with a larger church along with publishing many good helps for pastors also deals with the wear and tear of ministry. Thanks for sharing this video, it was help to me.


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## Staphlobob (Aug 11, 2007)

bookslover said:


> Wow. 8 minutes - and I spent the whole time waiting for this guy to mention something important, like, you know, the gospel, the Bible, feeding the sheep - you know, little things like that...



I could only take 1 minute. Whining upon whining. The man needs to go out and get a life (and definitely needs to get out of the ministry).


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## shackleton (Aug 11, 2007)

If he is not already burnt out he is definately on the edge of burn out. It is all about, me, me, me... and how _I _ am so overworked nothing about God. Except for a few words like "church" and "God" one would mistake him for a CEO of a large corporation, obviously with some incompetent volunteers that he "can't fire or reduce their pay." If this is the first blogg I can only imagine what the others will be like, he must not have thought that people from his congregation would be watching, unless he is trying to hit them up for a raise or a vacation.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 11, 2007)

Hit them up for a vacation? Looks like he could buy Disneyland all on his own. 

Here's the guy: http://www.fellowshipchurch.com/abouted


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## Anton Bruckner (Aug 11, 2007)

its simple. have competent elders whom you rotate in preaching. but evangelicalism is personality driven. People follow the Pastor and not necessarily God. Therefore a Pastor who is charismatic gets a large following, once he is off the scene, the people go to the next thing that is hot.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 11, 2007)

Slippery said:


> its simple. have competent elders whom you rotate in preaching. but evangelicalism is personality driven. People follow the Pastor and not necessarily God. Therefore a Pastor who is charismatic gets a large following, once he is off the scene, *the people go to the next thing that is hot*.



You mean that their religion is really all about making themselves feel relevant and "cool"? {Planting tounge firmly in his cheek} I thought being "purpose driven" and having "your best life now" were programs derived directly from the answer to question 1 of the WCF Shorter Catechism. Huh!? {removes toung from cheek}


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## Calvibaptist (Aug 11, 2007)

Slippery said:


> its simple. have competent elders whom you rotate in preaching. but evangelicalism is personality driven. People follow the Pastor and not necessarily God. Therefore a Pastor who is charismatic gets a large following, once he is off the scene, the people go to the next thing that is hot.



Maybe I haven't gotten a large following because I'm not charismatic enough!

Actually, one of the concerns I have had about our small (40-50 people) church is that it can easily become centered around the "main man." I lead the music because I am the only one able to play the piano in our church. I also preach because I am, well, the pastor.

But, I've recently been wondering, what happens when I die, which is inevitable? If these people are used to only me, then when I am gone, we will find that the church was built on me and not on Christ. One solution we (me and other two elders) have come up with is to have one of the other elders (Bill Brown) take some more preaching responsibilities. Also, we have another elder read Scripture and pray during the service so that I am not the only visible one.

My hope is that this will do a few things: 1) keep the attention off me. Contrary to the Church of Bawb, this is not the Church of Doug. 2) get the people used to seeing and hearing others bringing God's Word to them. 3) (and most importantly) keep the focus on the worship of God and not on any person.


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## 3John2 (Aug 11, 2007)

Those were my same sentiments. IT was all "poor me...me..me...me...you don't know how difficult it is for....ME..." . God doesn't seem to be much in this picture. This guy needs a tongue lashing from John Piper or MacArthur. He should pick up a copy of "Desiring God" to find out what's it's all REALLY about...GOD!!


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## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

Calvibaptist said:


> Slippery said:
> 
> 
> > its simple. have competent elders whom you rotate in preaching. but evangelicalism is personality driven. People follow the Pastor and not necessarily God. Therefore a Pastor who is charismatic gets a large following, once he is off the scene, the people go to the next thing that is hot.
> ...



AMEN! 

Hey, Bill - this guy is awright!


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## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

PastorFaulk said:


> I think that pulling a single video blog and jumping on a pastor who shares truth every week is a bit low. As a pastor serving full time in a church I did identify with much of what he said. The post was not directed at non believers, but other pastors. If you are elders, I think there is a lesson here for you. I am blessed by our church that they have seen how difficult it is to stay energized and focussed, and blessed us with the rest EYjr talks about. It is truly amizing how many non scriptual expectations are put on pastors, and it is good to see how a person who has had to deal with a larger church along with publishing many good helps for pastors also deals with the wear and tear of ministry. Thanks for sharing this video, it was help to me.




Pastor Faulk - I am sorry if you think I was picking on Ed - and I certainly appreciate the rigors of ministry, but is it not our good pleasure to serve Him? I don't want to diminish the burden or the fact that elders are worthy of double honor, but it seems much more in the sense of desire for commiseration than edification. Particularly since he is certainly not struggling for resources - I got the impression wanted he folks to appreciate the tremendous effort he was putting forth for *them* and *God*.

While I am certainly glad you received a blessing from his "chat" (not sure of what to call it) - I am reminded of one of my favorite hymns:

Riches I heed not, nor man's empty praise:
be thou mine inheritance now and always;
be thou and thou only the first in my heart;
O Sovereign of heaven, my treasure thou art.

And this video did not seem to fit that principle...


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 11, 2007)

*MODERATOR ADMONITION HAT IS BEING PUT ON*




I am not sure of this mans theological soundness but everything he said in the blog is true. And I think I would be a bit more careful in judgment over this. I agreed with him. I have seen everything he has talked about and his challenge to keep up on the stuff he mentioned is all very important. 

The work of a Senior Pastor is very taxing of small or large Churches. That is one reason why I believe in a Pluralistic Eldership. I didn't think he was whining at all. He was being truthful and had some good encouraging things to say about how to stay on top of it all. He did mention being a living sacrifice and in a good context also.

Now if you have anything of a doctrinal nature to discuss that would have been more appropriate instead of Criticizing Him the way you guys did. Both of the Pastors who responded on this thread were sympathetic to the Pastors Blog. And both of these Pastors who responded on this thread are good sound men. I value their opinion in this matter. Especially since they can identify. 

Be careful of your judgements.



*TAKING MODERATOR ADMONITION HAT OFF*


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## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

I guess I would say to compare and contrast the message...maybe it is a style thing...




John Piper said:


> The best way to bear the burden of your pastor is to be a Christian. Paul said in Philip*pians 2:2-3, "Complete my joy by being of the same mind, having the same love, being in full accord and of one mind. Do nothing from rivalry or conceit, but in humility count others more significant than yourselves." In other words, nothing will refresh our pastor like a humble, loving, Christ-like congregation. Paul said to the Roman church, "I long to see you … that we may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith" (1:11-12). Our faith is a source of great encouragement to our pastor. So let's be a believing people.
> 
> Besides this, I have three specific sugges*tions of things we can do to build our pastor up and increase the fruitfulness of his ministry.
> 
> ...



see here for the rest


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 11, 2007)

Here's a little info about Ed (the guy in the vidoe)....

http://www.edyoung.com/about.php


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 11, 2007)

http://www.fellowshipchurch.com/beliefs
Here are his doctrinal stances and the beliefs of the Church he Pastors....

PLEASE PAY ATTENTION TO THE MODERATOR ADMONITION HAT I WORE ABOVE.  

He does sound orthodox. In fact he sounds like a Baptist. LOL

What We Believe
God
Genesis 1:1,26,27; 3:22 Psalm 90:2 Matthew 28:19 I Peter 1:2 II Corinthians 13:14 God is the Creator and Ruler of the universe. He has eternally existed in three personalities: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. These three are co-equal and are one God. 

Man 
Genesis 1:27 Psalm 8:3-6 Isaiah 53:6a Romans 3:23 Isaiah 59:1-2 Man is made in the spiritual image of God, to be like Him in character. He is the supreme object of God's creation. Although man has tremendous potential for good, he is marred by an attitude of disobedience toward God called "sin." This attitude separates man from God. 

Eternity 
John 3:16 I John 2:25 & 5:11-13 Romans 6:23 Revelation 20:15 Man was created to exist forever. He will either exist eternally separated from God by sin, or in union with God, through forgiveness and salvation. To be eternally separated from God is Hell. To be eternally in union with Him is eternal life. Heaven and Hell are places of eternal existence. 

Jesus Christ 
Matthew 1:22-23 Isaiah 9:6 John 1:1-5 & 14:10-30 Hebrews 4:14-15 I Corinthians 15:3-4 Romans 1:3-4 Acts 1:9-11 I Timothy 6:14-15 Titus 2:13 Jesus Christ is the Son of God. He is co-equal with the Father. Jesus lived a sinless human life and offered Himself as the perfect sacrifice for the sins of all men by dying on a cross. He arose from the dead after three days to demonstrate His power over sin and death. He ascended to Heaven's glory and will return again to earth to reign as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. 

Salvation 
Romans 6:23 Ephesians 2:8-9 John 14:6 & 1:12 Titus 3:5 Galatians 3:26 Romans 5:1 Salvation is a gift from God to man. Man can never make up for his sin by self-improvement or good works. Only by trusting in Jesus Christ as God's offer of forgiveness can man be saved from sin's penalty. Eternal life begins the moment one receives Jesus Christ into his life by faith. 

Eternal Security 
John 10:29 II Timothy 1:12 Hebrews 7:25 & 10:10-14 I Peter 1:3-5 Because God gives man eternal life through Jesus Christ, the believer is secure in that salvation for eternity. Salvation is maintained by the grace and power of God, not by the self-effort of the Christian. It is the grace and keeping power of God that gives this security. 

The Holy Spirit
II Corinthians 3:17 John 16:7-13 & 14:16-17 Acts 1:8 I Corinthians 2:12 & 3:16 Ephesians 1:13 Galatians 5:25 Ephesians 5:18 The Holy Spirit is equal with the Father and the Son as God. He is present in the world to make men aware of their need for Jesus Christ. He also lives in every Christian from the moment of salvation. He provides the Christian with power for living, understanding of spiritual truth, and guidance in doing what is right. The Christian seeks to live under His control daily. 

The Bible 
II Timothy 3:16-17 II Peter 1:20-21 II Timothy 1:13 Psalm 119:105,160 & 12:6 Proverbs 30:5 The Bible is God's Word to all men. It was written by human authors under the supernatural guidance of the Holy Spirit. It is the supreme source of truth for Christian beliefs and living. Because it is inspired by God, it is truth without any mixture of error.


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## Pilgrim's Progeny (Aug 11, 2007)

This blog sheds some light on ED. Please take the time to read this if you want to be faithful in protecting Christ's flock.

http://stevenjcamp.blogspot.com/2006/12/night-at-improvjust-makin-faith-up-as.html#links



> Turning 'What If' into 'What?'
> There is a church leadership conference for pastors that is being hosted and produced by Ed Young, Jr to take place in Dallas, TX this next week called: the C3 Conference. C3, better known as Creative Church Conference, (they call it C3 because each of the words in the title begin with a "C" and it takes too much time to actually say the words Creative Church Conference) "promises to challenge your imagination, encourage your heart and stretch your leadership in ways you never dreamed possible." That sounds too good to be true for just a two day event doesn't it? I mean, I can get my imagination challenged, heart encouraged, and leadership stretched in ways I have never dreamed possible... and all in just two days. But here is the catch, I need THEM to tell me how to do this. I could never figure this out on my own with my other pastors, elders and church leaders in my own town... I NEED THEM. Who are they? Bishop T.D. Jakes, Ed Young, Jr., Dr. Ed Young (senior), Mark Driscoll, and Craig Groeschel. This conference, mind you, is designed for pastors and church leaders, but In my humble opinion, will not equip them in the principles of biblical leadership.
> 
> Here is a brief synopsis of three of these men:
> ...


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 11, 2007)

> The only reason that an orthodox Christian should participate in an event with T.D. Jakes is to call him to repentance and then proclaim the orthodox view of the Godhead in nature, character, and salvation. Apart from that, I cannot see any reason whatsoever to participate. This is a hill worth climbing up, standing on, and if necessary, dying on.
> 
> Can I get an amen!?!



AMEN

Gotta love Campi


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## Blueridge Believer (Aug 11, 2007)

http://www.jhm.org/events.asp

John Hagee invites everyone to join him in going back into the "types" and "shadows" and enjoy the preaching of the God denying heretic T.D. Jakes:

October 12-14, 2007
Feast of Tabernacles/Sukkot Celebration
Cornerstone Church, San Antonio, Texas

A time of celebration featuring Special Guest Speakers

Bishop TD Jakes and Pastor Rod Parsley

Join us as we celebrate God's goodness in
Fun, Food & Fellowship with a
Midway full of rides and games, Food Booths

Special worship services and a
National "Night to Honor Israel"

For more information, contact Cornerstone Church at
(210) 490-1600


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## PastorFaulk (Aug 11, 2007)

EYjr never posted this so that people would judge his entire ministry upon it. If one would pick up Spurgeon’s writings during his great battle with depression and judge his entire ministry on that, I think we would be having the same conversation about him. Poor Spurgeon, with his big church and massive followings.  I think to a large degree some larger church pastors get a bad rap because they are larger church pastors. (I am not talking about heretic large church pastors like Hagee Olsteen or Jakes) Could it be that God has blessed EYjr with a ministry to the people of north Dallas, and many have come to know him because EYjr has left himself open to be used by God. I have heard EYjr speak several times, and he has never compromised the truth for the church. This post was directed for pastors. It was a post emphasizing that we are not made out of steel and need rest. Goodness knows there is something every pastor can take from it. I am supposedly on paternity leave from my church, but that hasn’t kept me from checking my e-mail numerous times throughout the day. Here’s the point, in a day where blackberries and cell-phones are norm, I think EYjr's message is key. Every pastor needs to turn the cell phone off and get some rest.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 11, 2007)

Amen to Pastor Faulk also. Gotta love that Faulk.


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## turmeric (Aug 11, 2007)

Blueridge Baptist; said:


> October 12-14, 2007
> Feast of Tabernacles/Sukkot Celebration
> 
> Midway full of rides and games, *Food Booths*



I always _did_ wonder what kind of booths were in view during the Feast of Booths!


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## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

Just thought I'd lay out the points EYjr spoke about in the video:



Ed Young said:


> - Ministers and Pastors are set up for failure and burnout
> 
> - Being a leader of paid staff and volunteers is a trial
> 
> ...



Anyone up to tying Scriptural principles for pastors to these? 

Are these genuinely the challenges particular to the pastoral ministry?


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## kvanlaan (Aug 11, 2007)

> Just thought I'd lay out the points EYjr spoke about in the video:
> 
> 
> Quote:
> ...



Oh, oh, wait - I know the answer, JD!  (this is me raising my hand, not waving.)

It can't be done.

Pastor Faulk, as for your comment about certain pastors getting a 'bad rap', I would have to respectfully say that in this case, it does not seem to apply. I do think that when you circle your wagons with TD Jakes and the like, your call to come worship is diminished. We on the PB will openly rail against Billy Graham and his hand-holding with the church of Rome in public but are to somehow embrace EYjr using TD Jakes to draw in a crowd? I just can't follow that logic; please clarify, if you would - maybe I'm just not getting it.


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## Calvibaptist (Aug 11, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> Pastor Faulk, as for your comment about certain pastors getting a 'bad rap', I would have to respectfully say that in this case, it does not seem to apply. I do think that when you circle your wagons with TD Jakes and the like, your call to come worship is diminished. We on the PB will openly rail against Billy Graham and his hand-holding with the church of Rome in public but are to somehow embrace EYjr using TD Jakes to draw in a crowd? I just can't follow that logic; please clarify, if you would - maybe I'm just not getting it.



Honestly, although this video doesn't surprise me (or even really upset me), EYjr lost me when my only experience with him was seeing his sermon series with Hulk Hogan.


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## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

Calvibaptist said:


> Honestly, although this video doesn't surprise me (or even really upset me), EYjr lost me when my only experience with him was seeing his sermon series with Hulk Hogan.




LOL! -  I was just thinking the same thing - I saw the "commercial" for the Hogan series and became quite skeptical... 

Also - I have been working up the *Top 10 Warning Signs for Ministry Error* - number 1 is:

1. "MyName" Ministries with "MyName".com


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 11, 2007)

jdlongmire said:


> Also - I have been working up the *Top 10 Warning Signs for Ministry Error* - number 1 is:
> 
> 1. "MyName" Ministries with "MyName".com


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## Calvibaptist (Aug 11, 2007)

*Mixer's Ministries at MixersMusings.com*



jdlongmire said:


> Calvibaptist said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, although this video doesn't surprise me (or even really upset me), EYjr lost me when my only experience with him was seeing his sermon series with Hulk Hogan.
> ...



Just make sure you put your name in big bold letters on the book!

You are right, though. One thing that always bothers me about church signs, websites, bulletins, etc. is when the Pastor's name is prominently displayed. Obviously, people want to know who is in leadership in the church, but when you see one name elevated too much, it always bothers me.


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## panta dokimazete (Aug 11, 2007)

Calvibaptist said:


> Just make sure you put your name in big bold letters on the book!
> 
> You are right, though. One thing that always bothers me about church signs, websites, bulletins, etc. is when the Pastor's name is prominently displayed. Obviously, people want to know who is in leadership in the church, but when you see one name elevated too much, it always bothers me.



Yeah - I don't disagree with the "double honor" deal, but I always thought the pastor should be self aware enough to insure the right Person got the greatest honor...I think Bethlehem Baptist and John Piper are probably the best example I can think of...


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## Staphlobob (Aug 12, 2007)

puritancovenanter said:


> *MODERATOR ADMONITION HAT IS BEING PUT ON*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sorry, but I still think he's whining. And there is definitely a doctrinal component to this. One is either a minister with joy, or they leave because they're in the wrong place. This doesn't exclude the need for some of us to seek counseling because there are demands. (Southern Baptists suffer the most, in my opinion.) But even then there is a call for discretion and confidentiality. One doesn't blab it on the internet unless they're seeking a good ego-stroking. My


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## Ivan (Aug 12, 2007)

Staphlobob said:


> This doesn't exclude the need for some of us to seek counseling because there are demands. (Southern Baptists suffer the most, in my opinion.)



I'm not sure I understand your meaning. 



> But even then there is a call for discretion and confidentiality. One doesn't blab it on the internet unless they're seeking a good ego-stroking. My



Well, I haven't watched the video (or whatever you call it). I'm on dial-up and it's rare for me to take the time to watch these. I have to be really interested before I download. Frankly, I'm not particularly interested in what he has to say.

But I will say this. From the description I've read about this video it sounds a bit self-serving. I would not put something like this on the internet in a million years. I suspect if most Southern Baptist pastor would do such a thing a good number of them would be looking for another church...at least from what I understand about the video.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 12, 2007)

It was either Stanley or EYjr that drove an army tank into the worship service and preached standing on the tank.


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## JonathanHunt (Aug 12, 2007)

Calvibaptist said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> > Pastor Faulk, as for your comment about certain pastors getting a 'bad rap', I would have to respectfully say that in this case, it does not seem to apply. I do think that when you circle your wagons with TD Jakes and the like, your call to come worship is diminished. We on the PB will openly rail against Billy Graham and his hand-holding with the church of Rome in public but are to somehow embrace EYjr using TD Jakes to draw in a crowd? I just can't follow that logic; please clarify, if you would - maybe I'm just not getting it.
> ...



I thought I'd seen him someplace before...


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## Ivan (Aug 12, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> It was either Stanley or EYjr that drove an army tank into the worship service and preached standing on the tank.



I wonder if the LORD was gloried in that service that day.


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## jbergsing (Aug 12, 2007)

Isn't that Ed Young's kid? Yikes! Did he really complain about dealing with millions of dollars? There sure are a lot of congregations out there who wish they had a fraction of what his ministry apparently brings in. Spoiled, ungrateful ... nevermind. I'm gonna end up saying something I shouldn't...

I think I've heard this guy on XM radio. His theology is a mile wide and an inch deep, not to mention how off he is on most topics. If this is Ed Young's kid, I've heard him claim he is a "recovering Baptist". I guess I do have something in common with him, only my recovery is slightly different than his.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 12, 2007)

Ivan said:


> Spear Dane said:
> 
> 
> > It was either Stanley or EYjr that drove an army tank into the worship service and preached standing on the tank.
> ...



But he was preaching on spiritual warfare!


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## Ivan (Aug 12, 2007)

jbergsing said:


> Isn't that Ed Young's kid? Yikes! Did he really complain about dealing with millions of dollars? There sure are a lot of congregations out there who wish they had a fraction of what his ministry apparently brings in. Spoiled, ungrateful ... nevermind. I'm gonna end up saying something I shouldn't...
> 
> I think I've heard this guy on XM radio. His theology is a mile wide and an inch deep, not to mention how off he is on most topics. If this is Ed Young's kid, I've heard him claim he is a "recovering Baptist". I guess I do have something in common with him, only my recovery is slightly different than his.



Yes, he is Ed Young's son.


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## Ivan (Aug 12, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> > Spear Dane said:
> ...



Did he have a flack jacket on with grendaes hanging from it? Did he shoot off an automatic weapon during the sermon?

For me it's a Bible, a pulpit and my congregation. No need for a tank! However, we do have horses on the premises. Perhaps I could dress up like Stonewall or Robert E. Lee. Wait!! I'm in the North! Sorry, I won't be Grant or Sherman. 

I guess I'm a different kind of Baptist than Ed Young, Jr.


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