# Benedict XVI Denies Purgatory as a Physical State (?)



## SolaGratia (Jan 12, 2011)

During today's (Jan 12, 2011) speech by Benedict XVI, there was talked of Purgatory according to Catherine of Genoa (1447-1510). The Pope said that Purgatory was for her, "as a place of transit in the depths of the earth: it is not an exterior fire, but an interior fire". 

Spanish news sources are reporting that the Pope's speech is denying the existing of Purgatory from that of a literal physical state.

Spanish news: Niega Benedicto XVI que el purgatorio sea un lugar físico - Yahoo! México Noticias

I try doing an English online search and I only found this:

POPE BENEDICT XVI: News Vatican Information Service 01/12/2011


If this is not the case, it seems that the pope is on to something, perhaps he is trying to make way to change the Vatican view of its doctrine of Purgatory.


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## PuritanZealot (Jan 13, 2011)

The Vatican has been on a mission to destabalise it's core doctrines for some time, probably so that the Ecumenical movement can drag swathes of the 'church' into it's lies and be devoured by the wolves. I wouldn't be surprised if he throws off his sheeps cloak anytime soon.


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## Peairtach (Jan 13, 2011)

Benedict may end up unravelling the whole system by mistake, as Gorbachev did with the Soviet Union. But don't tell him I said that.


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## louis_jp (Jan 13, 2011)

I thought they had been discussing the "location" of purgatory for some time. I don't think they'll be chucking the core of the doctrine anytime soon.


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## Theogenes (Jan 13, 2011)

Isn't the doctrine of purgatory still a money maker for the RCC?


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## puritanpilgrim (Jan 13, 2011)

> Isn't the doctrine of purgatory still a money maker for the RCC?



It's makes more money than bingo:

Why Catholic Indulgences Are Making a Comeback - TIME


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## Theoretical (Jan 13, 2011)

My prediction: The change in position will be regarded as simply a change that's always been compatible with the Church's teaching. They might acknowledge its different from what _most_ held "back in the day" but that this conception of purgatory was never rejected and held by Saint/Pope/Whoever so-and-so. And the argument will be his views might have been minority then but as he wasn't excommunicated, it's legit Church teaching they now find compelling.

A Catholic once blindsided me with this view and that it was Benedict's. While it's not as doctrinally bad, this strikes me as an ecumenical, rather than principled move. Ditto I think with theistic evolution.


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## Berean (Jan 13, 2011)

> "St. Catherine's life teaches us that the more we love God and enter into intimate contact with Him through prayer, the more He makes Himself known and enflames our hearts with His love. By writing about Purgatory, *the saint reminds us of a fundamental truth of the faith which becomes an invitation for us to pray for the dead*, that they may achieve the blessed vision of God in the communion of the saints".



No change there. Sell "Masses" for the dead. Make money. Catholics never have certain assurance of their salvation or security, a tactic designed to keep them hanging on to Rome.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 13, 2011)

They pitched Limbus Infantum a couple of years ago. Like I've heard from Romanist friends, if it's not a pronounced dogma it can be changed. Limbo was a "theory" they used to really push but now don't; anyone know if Purgatory is dogma?


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## Berean (Jan 13, 2011)

PointyHaired Calvinist said:


> anyone know if Purgatory is dogma?



Apparently it is.


> What do Christ and His Church teach us about Purgatory? That there is a place called Purgatory is certain because Holy Mother Church has already declared such a belief a *dogma of our Faith*. In the fifteenth century the Councils of Florence and Trent solemnly declared this belief of all the faithful children of the Church.



BRIEF EXPLANATION OF PURGATORY


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## tcalbrecht (Jan 13, 2011)

As reported by the Vatican News Service:

Benedict XVI then went on to refer to the works of the saint, recalling how, "in her mystical experiences, Catherine never received specific revelations on Purgatory or on the souls being purified there". She did not see Purgatory "as a place of transit in the depths of the earth: it is not an exterior fire, but an interior fire". She did not use the hereafter as a basis "to recount the torments of purgatory and then show the way to purification and conversion; rather, she began from the interior experience of man on his journey towards eternity".​
Sounds like the pope is simply giving his take on her writings.


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## Peairtach (Jan 14, 2011)

The absurdity of sinful Man playing Christ, the Theanthropos - the Papacy:
Blessed John Paul II and the end of infallibility – Telegraph Blogs


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## dudley (Jan 14, 2011)

tcalbrecht said:


> As reported by the Vatican News Service:
> 
> Benedict XVI then went on to refer to the works of the saint, recalling how, "in her mystical experiences, Catherine never received specific revelations on Purgatory or on the souls being purified there". She did not see Purgatory "as a place of transit in the depths of the earth: it is not an exterior fire, but an interior fire". She did not use the hereafter as a basis "to recount the torments of purgatory and then show the way to purification and conversion; rather, she began from the interior experience of man on his journey towards eternity".​
> Sounds like the pope is simply giving his take on her writings.


Amen Tom! 
One of the reasons I left the catholic church was because of the horrible lie of purgatory.
I left for many reasons. I have also pointed out that 15 million other Catholics in the United States have also left for similar reasons. 

Tom is right when he said: “Sounds like the pope is simply giving his take on her writings.” I also know Tom is like me a former Roman catholic turned Reformed Protestant and Presbyterian. I also know as do ex Roman Catholics that this is a Encyclical teaching which means for the current time only; another crafty tool of the pope 

Pope Joe “Rat” zinger is cunning and often speaks with a forked tongue. In my estimation he can not be trusted. I have said I initially left the catholic church in 2006 because I was completely disillusioned with the current pope. I eventually renounced the pope, the papacy and Roman Catholicism as did all the Protestant Reformers.

Traditionally Purgatory is a place Catholics have been taught they will go if they die with unpaid penalties, there they will pay for their penalties by suffering. This imaginary place keeps many Catholics in fear all their life, because they can never be sure of how long they will spend there. A fear of purgatory causes many Catholics to miss out on the joy and peace that comes from knowing Jesus has paid the full price for sin. 

The Catholic church has taught that time spent in purgatory can be reduced by gifts of money, the prayers of priests, and by doing other things. Through such teachings the Catholic Church has collected billions of dollars, selling masses for the dead, 9 they say an offering since Vatican II but in most parishes an announced mass is an ’offering’ of $10 and an un announced mass is an offering of $5. This practice along with many other deceitful practices has made it one of the richest institutions in the world.

However nothing about purgatory can be found in the Bible. Jesus said in the Bible, that He who hears His word and believes in Him who sent Him, has everlasting life, and will not be judged, but has passed from death to life (John 5:24). The Bible also says God does not remember sins that have been forgiven (Hebrews 10:17). The Bible also says that once Christians die they will be present with God (2 Corinthians 5:8-9), there is no place in between.

The pope and the Roman curia are however are aware of the following statistics from the Pew Forum on Religion and Public life. His attitudinal shift is because of the awareness they have of the great loss of faithful they have suffered in recent years both in the United States and Europe. His words are careful and cunning however, while purgatory is not any longer a place according to Benedict, it is still “a spiritual state of mind” after death.

He is softening the position in order to not loose more Catholics in the future to Protestantism as the church has done in the last 20 years.

While the ranks of the unaffiliated have grown the most due to changes in religious affiliation, the Catholic Church has lost the most members in the same process; this is the case even though Catholicism's retention rate of childhood members (68%) is far greater than the retention rate of the unaffiliated and is comparable with or better than the retention rates of other religious groups. Those who have left Catholicism outnumber those who have joined the Catholic Church by nearly a four-to-one margin. Overall, one-in-ten American adults (10.1%) have left the Catholic Church after having been raised Catholic, while only 2.6% of adults have become Catholic after having been raised Protestant or something other than Catholic.

15 million former Catholics in the United States are now practicing Protestants as I am and also many others right here on the PB.

Among former Catholics who are now Protestant, 71% say they left Catholicism because their spiritual needs were not being met, making this the most commonly cited reason for leaving the Catholic Church among this group

Among former Catholics who have become Protestant, nearly one-in-five (18%) say their departure was due specifically to discomfort with the Catholic Church's teachings about the Bible. This view is particularly common among former Catholics who now belong to evangelical Protestant denominations (24%). Source: Religion and Public Life Pew Survey.

As I said in the beginning of my post “This imaginary place called Purgatory keeps many Catholics in fear all their life, because they can never be sure of how long they will spend there. A fear of purgatory causes many Catholics to miss out on the joy and peace that comes from knowing Jesus has paid the full price for sin.”

Many former Catholics have become Protestant because they discovered as I did that “joy and peace that comes from knowing Jesus has paid the full price for sin.”


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