# Church only elected as a whole?



## Weston Stoler (Dec 9, 2011)

What would you say to someone who says this?

"I believe that Christ has elected a body of believers as a group - in the same way that he chose Israel (even though not all the Israelites believed), he chose the church to follow Him."

It seems really foolish to me seeing as not all Israelites believed however what would be your rebuttal?


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## Tim (Dec 9, 2011)

This person is an Arminian who is trying to explain the use of the word _election_ in the Bible.


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## Weston Stoler (Dec 9, 2011)

well I know that. It was pretty obvious. I was just wondering if their were any texts that would combat this idea of only being predestined as a group.


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## seajayrice (Dec 9, 2011)

Tim said:


> This person is an Arminian who is trying to explain the use of the word _election_ in the Bible.



Agreed. Right out of the Herbert Lockyer quote book. The texts concerning election are clear; put the eisegete in the dock and let them explain the Arminian position.


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## Bill The Baptist (Dec 9, 2011)

Sounds a bit like Federal Vision, too.


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## Contra_Mundum (Dec 9, 2011)

Scripture states: "Not all of them who _are *of*_ Israel _are_ Israel," Rom.9:6.

This is the Apostle's grand explanation for why the appearance of election (via the nation Israel) may seem to have failed, since the "elect nation" has as a collective-body rejected its Messiah.

No, but there is an election that is "according to grace," Rom.11:5, and not merely that of outward connection to a body. All of _that_ Israel are certain to be redeemed, through faith in the same Messiah.

This is an election of _of individuals,_ a remnant, out of a "mass" or "collective" or "corporate," external election.


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## py3ak (Dec 9, 2011)

The example of Jacob, Romans 9, makes it clear that election is of definite individuals.


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## Weston Stoler (Dec 10, 2011)

py3ak said:


> The example of Jacob, Romans 9, makes it clear that election is of definite individuals.



Then you got those Dispensational feller's who say it is only talking about Israel and how they were chosen over all the others. Of course they fail to remember about pharaoh....


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## fredtgreco (Dec 10, 2011)

The Scripture is full of elect individuals. Ruben is right about Jacob. But there is also the widow of Zarephath, and Naaman (cf. Luke 4:26-27).


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## py3ak (Dec 10, 2011)

Weston Stoler said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> > The example of Jacob, Romans 9, makes it clear that election is of definite individuals.
> ...



There is not much you can do with people who won't read the text. But it talks specifically about unborn twins, and distinguishes between them; how much more individual can you get?


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