# Why are there no traditional Reformed colleges?



## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 20, 2016)

Now I know there are strong Reformed seminaries, but why are there no truly Reformed undergraduate colleges? Harvard, Yale, Calvin, Hope, and Hampden-Sydney all used to be pretty strong Reformed colleges. Now they've all pretty much abandoned their Christian/Reformed foundations, and swerved to the Left socially and theologically.( some becoming totally secular) I'm applying to college this year, and I did a TON of research to try and find the right place. My college search has pretty much ended, and I've created a college list. I'm applying to 3 Christian colleges, and one secular college. All of the colleges I'm looking at have major issues, and I'll have to compromise wherever I go. It saddens me when I see a place like Harvard.( which was founded by devout Christian men) In my view Harvard was a strong Christian school until the middle of the 19th century, and it was still a culturally Christian elite gentlemens school until the 1960s. This may be a controversial view, but I believe that Harvard( and the entire Ivy League) died when they threw away the last shred of tradition they had left, and started admitting women. Now, let me be clear. I am NOT saying that this was the only cause of the secularization of the Ivy League, and I am NOT saying that women should not go to college. I don't have an issue with women going to college.( although I am a strong supporter of traditional gender roles, and VERY anti-Feminist) However, all of the Ivy League colleges were founded as all-male Christian schools, and I feel that's how they should've stayed. I know several people who attended Harvard and Yale when they were still men's colleges.( these guys attended in the 50s, and are very old now) When I ask them what the colleges were like back then, they all tell me that while there were a few slightly Liberal professors, the general vibe of both Harvard and Yale in the 50s was pretty socially conservative. When the Ivys bowed the knee to the Feminists, it opened the door for everything else that now go on at the colleges.( radical Feminism, the LGBT perversion, the obsession with "equality", etc) The same thing happened to Oxford and Cambridge( both used to be traditional Anglican men's colleges) Would Harvard or Oxford have closed if they had decided to remain all-male( they had plenty of money, so I think they would've been fine) I've thought about this for a long time while looking at colleges. I currently attend an all-male prep school, but I went to mediocre public schools K-9. At the public schools I attended, the academics were terrible, there was constant disorder, the dress was very immodest( a lot of very short skirts) and there was a pretty large homosexual club.At the all-male school I currently attend, it's pretty much the exact opposite. I'm getting a strong classical education, we have a strict dress code with uniforms, there's a very strict code of conduct, and the environment is very socially/theologically conservative( it's a Traditional Catholic school, but about 40-45% of the student body is Protestant) My point is that it's a lot harder to have Liberalism and degeneracy at an all-male school than a co-ed school. Now I'm not sure what I'll do for college. I wish there were just one Reformed/ Christian gentlemens college out there that provides a Classical education ( Harvard used to be)Maybe one of the really strong Reformed seminaries should start offering undergraduate degrees in the Liberal Arts( although I know it would put an additional financial burden on them) I don't know what the majority of PB posters think about gender roles, and I've been called all sorts of names on other Christian forums for my views, but I remain staunchly opposed to co-education. Here's an interesting article I read about Harvard. 
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/journal.php?id=190 .


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## StephenG (Aug 20, 2016)

Have you considered Covenant College?


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## Andres (Aug 20, 2016)

Have you looked into Geneva College? It's not all-male, but it was founded and is still currently governed by the oversight of the RPCNA.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 20, 2016)

StephenG said:


> Have you considered Covenant College?


Yes. They don't offer a Classics major, so it's not on my list.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 20, 2016)

Andres said:


> Have you looked into Geneva College? It's not all-male, but it was founded and is still currently governed by the oversight of the RPCNA.


I've heard of it but don't know much about it. Do they offer a Classics major? Caleb Stegall ( a man I have great respect for) went to Geneva College.


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## StephenG (Aug 20, 2016)

Both Covenant and Geneva sound like solid offerings if you were simply looking for truly Reformed undergraduate colleges. Sadly if you are planning on a Classics major, you may have to narrow down the list quite a bit.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 20, 2016)

StephenG said:


> Both Covenant and Geneva sound like solid offerings if you were simply looking for truly Reformed undergraduate colleges. Sadly if you are planning on a Classics major, you may have to narrow down the list quite a bit.


Right. Neither one of those schools offer Classics. 3 of the 4 schools on my list ( New St. Andrews College, Patrick Henry College, and Hampden-Sysney College)offer Classics majors. They all have serious issues though.


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## Jake (Aug 21, 2016)

It sounds like your real question is why are there no traditional Reformed colleges that have the major you are looking for.


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## TheOldCourse (Aug 21, 2016)

9 out of 10 classicalists recommend using paragraphs. Also, if you haven't added one yet, please use a signature: http://www.puritanboard.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_signaturereqtsfaq


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## earl40 (Aug 21, 2016)

Jake said:


> It sounds like your real question is why are there no traditional Reformed colleges that have the major you are looking for.



This is a good point. I am an ultrasound sonographer and there are no "reformed" collages that offer studies in this field. In other words, the root of the problem, or question as perposed in the OP, is why would we prefer a "christian" or "reformed" collage over a collage that can offer the same choices?


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 21, 2016)

TheOldCourse said:


> 9 out of 10 *classicalists* recommend using paragraphs. Also, if you haven't added one yet, please use a signature: http://www.puritanboard.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_signaturereqtsfaq


I think you mean "Classicists"


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## TheOldCourse (Aug 21, 2016)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> TheOldCourse said:
> 
> 
> > 9 out of 10 *classicalists* recommend using paragraphs. Also, if you haven't added one yet, please use a signature: http://www.puritanboard.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_signaturereqtsfaq
> ...



Touché


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## StephenG (Aug 21, 2016)

If you end up at a secular institution, you should consider making sure it has a ministry like RUF on campus. That will be invaluable.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 21, 2016)

StephenG said:


> If you end up at a secular institution, you should consider making sure it has a ministry like RUF on campus. That will be invaluable.


The secular school On my list is Hampden-Sydney College. I'll see if they have such a group on campus.


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## Jake (Aug 21, 2016)

earl40 said:


> Jake said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like your real question is why are there no traditional Reformed colleges that have the major you are looking for.
> ...



I studied STEM at a Reformed liberal arts college. While I'm grateful for having solidly Reformed Computer Science professors, and this did come to bear even in CS, I could definitely have learned the same skills at other institutions just as well. While I think a Christian worldview impacts many STEM fields (for example, the questions of artificial intelligence and ethics in Computer Science), I think its impact becomes more severe in other areas. I could see a good case for specifically aiming to get a foundational understanding (i.e., an undergraduate degree) in fields like Classics, Philosophy, and Theology from a Christian and Reformed institution. In addition, if one is considering a liberal arts college, it can be great to learn a wide variety of topics with a Christian worldview front and center.

I say this not to say my experience was perfectly ideal or that there wasn't a lot of error and challenges at my alma matter; I only wish to argue that there are very valid reasons for preferring a Christian and/or Reformed college over another, though I think its not to be the only choice or necessarily the top choice for any given student.


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## Jake (Aug 21, 2016)

I'lll add to more directly answer the spirit of your question:

A good book that is required reading for incoming freshman to Covenant College is _Why College Matters to God_ by Rick Ostrander. I found it to include a helpful survey of the fall of many traditionally Christian institutions into secularism. It is a short book and is certainly Neo-Calvinist, but it's an interesting read nonetheless.


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## Edward (Aug 21, 2016)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> On my list is Hampden-Sydney College. I'll see if they have such a group on campus.



Not one there. The closest would probably be the city wide RUF at Lynchburg. That's about an hour away. Also, it would be about an hour's drive to the nearest NAPARC congregation - an OPC in Lynchburg (also a couple of PCAs there) next option would be the other way in the Richmond suburbs. 

You are going to be sacrificing a lot just to avoid educated women.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 21, 2016)

Edward said:


> Anglicanorthodoxy said:
> 
> 
> > On my list is Hampden-Sydney College. I'll see if they have such a group on campus.
> ...


Well it's not just the all-male thing I like about Hampden-Sydney. It's also the fact that HSC is the last traditional/conservative gentlemens college left in the world, and it has a very strong Classics department. I could go to New St. Andrews, but then I'd be dealing with the Federal vision issue. I want a conservative college that offers a Classics major.


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## jwithnell (Aug 21, 2016)

Patrick Henry College? Also, RUF is no substitute for a good church.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 21, 2016)

jwithnell said:


> Patrick Henry College? Also, RUF is no substitute for a good church.


Yes, Patrick Henry College.


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## Edward (Aug 21, 2016)

Have you looked at Hillsdale in Michgan? There appears to be an OPC in town. It is, of course, co-ed


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 21, 2016)

Edward said:


> Have you looked at Hillsdale in Michgan? There appears to be an OPC in town. It is, of course, co-ed


Yes, I have. Hillsdale isn't really a Christian school, and is VERY influenced by Straussianism. It's advertised on Rush Limbaughs show( Limbaugh is a joke. I hate talk radio) My fear with Hillsdale is that I'll have to go through 4 years of lectures given by NeoCons about " American exceptional ism", the wonders of democracy, and the greatness of the free-market. I don't think I can endure that. Right now, I'd say Hampden-Sydney and New St. Andrews are at the top of my list. Like I said earlier, I'll have to compromise wherever I go.


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## Philip (Aug 22, 2016)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> My fear with Hillsdale is that I'll have to go through 4 years of lectures given by NeoCons about " American exceptional ism", the wonders of democracy, and the greatness of the free-market.



Then you probably won't like Patrick Henry College. Just sayin'.


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## zsmcd (Aug 22, 2016)

If I were a student wanting to study classics I would jump over to Reformation Bible College. They don't have a classics major but their entire program is set up around the classics and Scripture. http://reformationbiblecollege.org/academics/


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## Alex Foo (Aug 27, 2016)

have you considered The Master's University? =)


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## arapahoepark (Aug 27, 2016)

Alex Foo said:


> have you considered The Master's University? =)



Isn't it just Master's college?

As for Hillsdale, doesn't DG Hart teach there? You could hop on over to his blog as ask him about the place. Oldlife.org


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## Andrew P.C. (Aug 27, 2016)

Just a note about DG: his historical methodology is very much revisionist history (that's an actual methodology, not just a slam).


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## reaganmarsh (Aug 27, 2016)

Didn't Whitefield offer an undergrad in Classics? They're unaccredited, but reformed...our own Dr. McMahon did some of his studies there.


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## matt01 (Aug 27, 2016)

arapahoepark said:


> Alex Foo said:
> 
> 
> > have you considered The Master's University? =)
> ...



Unfortunately, it is now a university.


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## lynnie (Aug 27, 2016)

I think that you need to make sure you have a church to go to where you can fellowship wholeheartedly. Four years without a good church is a bad choice. List places with your chosen major, and then look at local church options. All the rest is secondary.

By the way if you are into John Robbins, please do more research and run away fast. He is a crusader who seems to think he alone has doctrinal purity, and has said some nasty things about a long list of theologians like Van Til, Frame, Gaffin If I recall correctly, and many more. It isn't just the intellectual critique, it is the attitude that permeates his work. You don't want to end up an arrogant snob.

As a woman who reads theology and talks about it ALL THE TIME with my husband of 37 years ( WTS grad), if you ever want to get married then realize you just might find her at the co-ed Reformed colleges you are looking down on. God wants women to learn to think and study sound doctrine too.


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## Philip (Aug 28, 2016)

lynnie said:


> By the way if you are into John Robbins, please do more research and run away fast. He is a crusader who seems to think he alone has doctrinal purity, and has said some nasty things about a long list of theologians like Van Til, Frame, Gaffin If I recall correctly, and many more. It isn't just the intellectual critique, it is the attitude that permeates his work. You don't want to end up an arrogant snob.



I second this.



lynnie said:


> As a woman who reads theology and talks about it ALL THE TIME with my husband of 37 years ( WTS grad), if you ever want to get married then realize you just might find her at the co-ed Reformed colleges you are looking down on. God wants women to learn to think and study sound doctrine too.



This is actually the reason why reformed schools like Covenant were founded as co-ed. The faculty and administration at these places are very keen on promoting good and healthy marriages.


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## Justified (Aug 28, 2016)

Philip said:


> lynnie said:
> 
> 
> > By the way if you are into John Robbins, please do more research and run away fast. He is a crusader who seems to think he alone has doctrinal purity, and has said some nasty things about a long list of theologians like Van Til, Frame, Gaffin If I recall correctly, and many more. It isn't just the intellectual critique, it is the attitude that permeates his work. You don't want to end up an arrogant snob.
> ...


 And I third this.


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## johnny (Aug 28, 2016)

lynnie said:


> I think that you need to make sure you have a church to go to where you can fellowship wholeheartedly. Four years without a good church is a bad choice. List places with your chosen major, and then look at local church options. All the rest is secondary.



I forth this 

I have been reading your posts on PB and am very encouraged that you are seeking for a Minister or Mentor to help guide you. (This was posted on wadling pool) Part of the Confessional Reformed experience and indeed our Christian walk is humble submission to those who God in his wisdom has placed above us for our guidance. 

You have shown wisdom in joining this board and it is great that you are taking steps towards eventual church membership. I can't reccomend a college but it is encouraging to read your progress.


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