# Sabbath Question?



## tbenavides (Aug 8, 2006)

In regards to Chapter 21 section 8 of the WCF . How do you address the issue of believers who are required to work on Sunday due to the industry they are in? (Call Centers, Retail, Restraunts, Police, Hospital, etc...) In addition what are the thoughts from anyone in regards to the Bi-Vocational Pastor who after ministering to the congregation on Sunday Morning is occasionally having to report directly to work(secular)? Is the believer who attends faithfully to worship on Sunday, and then having to report to work afterwards still being faithful to the Sabbath? Any thoughts on this subject would be greatly apreciated.


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## MW (Aug 9, 2006)

It all hinges on whether the occupation is regarded as a work of necessity. Only a servile work of necessity can hinder the performance of a work of piety on the Sabbath day. A work of necessity as defined by 17th century Puritans is one which cannot be done on Saturday or be put off until Monday without damage being done to a man or his property. Consider William Gouge's Sabbath's Sanctification.

Question 37. May servile works be done on the Sabbath, though they hinder duties of piety?
Ans. Yea. Matt. 12:7.
God doth not so strictly tie us as, fall what will or can fall out, we must go to Church. This phrase, "œnot sacrifice" (Hos. 6:6), implieth that there may be cases wherein God doth not expect sacrifices, that is, external duties of piety to be performed by us.

Question 38. What are those servile works which may be done though they hinder duties of piety?
Ans. Such as are of an absolute necessity.
This absolute necessity hath relation to man´s need; namely, that it is necessary that such things be done, or else some great damage or prejudice will come to man.

Question 39. How may that absolute necessity be known?
Ans. If that which must needs be done could not be done the day before, nor can be put off to the day after.
This implies a necessity of the present performance, even upon the Sabbath day. This first is laid down as a ground, that it must needs be done. Then it is taken for granted that it could not be done the day before; and also that it cannot be put off to the day after. Therefore, it remains that it must be done on the Lord´s day. For instance: A tile falls on a man´s head and sorely wounds him on the Lord´s day. It is necessary that succour be afforded to this man. The day before nothing could be done for his cure because no man knew he would be hurt. Succour must not be put off to the day after lest the man perish for want of succour. Such, therefore, as are able to help him, must do it, though thereby the duties of piety be hindered. Note, for this purpose, John 7:23.

Question 40. Of what sort are those works of absolute necessity?
Ans. (1.) Ordinary. (2.) Extraordinary.
Ordinary are such as for the most part happen every Sabbath; and somewhere or other are performed on that day.
Extraordinary are such as may fall out and sometimes do fall out, but very seldomly; and it is a lamentable accident when any of them do fall out.

Question 41. What instances may be given of ordinary servile works which hinder duties of piety?
Ans. (1.) Tending young children. (2.) Keeping sick and impotent persons. (3.) Helping women in travail.
Most families have some young children which cannot look to themselves, nor be brought to Church without disturbance of the whole congregation.
Very oft it falls out in every city and town that some be sick, or otherwise impotent by age, or some casualty, so as they cannot go to Church; but require some to tarry with them and to attend upon them. And in what day of the year doth it not fall out that some women, in one place or other, fall in travail? If every day, then also every Lord´s day. But it is requisite that more than one or two assist them in their travail.
All these, therefore, are ordinary servile works whereby some are kept from duties of piety and yet are blameless. Instance Hannah who tarried from the temple till her child was weaned (1 Sam. 1:22), and was blameless.

Question 42. What instances may be given of extraordinary servile works which hinder duties of piety?
Ans. (1.) Quenching fire on houses. (2.) Making up breaches of water. (3.) Withstanding enemies. (4.) Freeing living creatures out of present danger.
The three first of these concerning fire, water, and enemies, are so violent that if present help be not afforded against them, irrecoverable damage may soon follow thereupon. If, therefore, in any cases that rule hold, "“ "œmercy not sacrifice" (Hos. 6:6; Matt. 11:7) "“ most of all in these.
As for the freeing of living creatures out of danger, we have Christ´s express warrant, Matt. 12:11; Luke 14:5. If unreasonable creatures are instantly to be pulled out of danger, much more reasonable, Luke 13:15, 16.
By these particulars which are permitted, we may see that a conscionable observing of the Sabbath is not so heavy a yoke as many imagine it to be.


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## gwine (Aug 9, 2006)

What of a maintenance job that requires that pm's be done during non-production time? If a plant works M-F, is closed on Saturday and Sunday is the only day available to do scheduled maintenance and to work on construction projects that can't be done during the week, would you consider it to be a work of necessity?

Granted, some would say, "let someone else do it." But someone else doesn't do it, because they already have their own work to do. And anyone in the manufacturing industry knows that there is never a lack of work to do.


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## SRoper (Aug 9, 2006)

PM is "preventive maintenance" for those who don't know.


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## tbenavides (Aug 9, 2006)

As urban communities continue to grow, and cities with populations of 1.5million plus become 24 hour cities (meaning they have legitimate industries that are ongoing 24/7) how are we to disciple believers, and apply this portion of the Confession, as we seek to expand the Kingdom of God in our cities? Are multiple services in order? Are worsip services provided on different days, and times of the week acceptable? It appears to me that in order to be more effective with our Evangelism efforts, and to provide opportunities for people of the City to Worship God, and partake of the Sacrements, that this approach may be a viable option....Any thoughts, concerns???


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## Croghanite (Aug 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by tbenavides_
> In regards to Chapter 21 section 8 of the WCF . How do you address the issue of believers who are required to work on Sunday due to the industry they are in? (Call Centers, Retail, Restraunts, Police, Hospital, etc...) In addition what are the thoughts from anyone in regards to the Bi-Vocational Pastor who after ministering to the congregation on Sunday Morning is occasionally having to report directly to work(secular)? Is the believer who attends faithfully to worship on Sunday, and then having to report to work afterwards still being faithful to the Sabbath? Any thoughts on this subject would be greatly apreciated.



My boss has called me several times for "emergency" calls to restore power to buildings that have lost their incoming supply. There mostly commercial buildings with a minimum amount of people working there. Allot of the time it is one of two feeders in a redundant system that blew up. There would have been no injuries or anything of that sort if the power was restored Monday. I always deny his request. Keep in mind that I fully explain how I honour God on this day and I add whatever I can while I have his ear. :bigsmile:

He also has called me to restore power to a Hospital where their only source of power was backup generators. Now that is necessary. People could die.

I constantly get the old talk from the boss about "our industry requires you to work outages for PM's and come in on emergency calls". If my boss told me that I had to work on Sundays, even occasionally, I would feel obligated to look for another job. My allegiance is to Christ, not my job.

What I am trying to say is that we are required to sanctify the Lords day. We as Christians should make every effort to find jobs that do not require us to work on the Lords day.

If I were to apply for a position as a police officer, (which I have considered), I would let the management know that I do not work on Sundays. If I got the job and terrorists started to attack on a Sunday, I would go to work.


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## R. Scott Clark (Aug 9, 2006)

> If I were to apply for a position as a police officer, (which I have considered), I would let the management know that I do not work on Sundays. If I got the job and terrorists started to attack on a Sunday, I would go to work.



I should think that police, fire and other such emergency and essential civic functions are works of mercy and necessity. 

Other random considerations:

Having worked in many different sorts of "secular" employment some of which was of the 24/7 variety, it's my experience that most Sunday labor can be avoided by good planning. 

Most sabbath day labor is driven by greed, but companies that do not respect the basic limits inherent in creation will soon find that their employees are less productive and effective. We're not made to work 7 days a week. 

Other sabbath-day labor is fueled by evangelical Christians who frequent businesses on the sabbath thus making it economically attractive to stay open. If so-called evangelicals simply stayed home (imagine 60 million north american evangelicals NOT going to Sunday lunch!) the American work week would be changed drastically and quickly.

There are precious few companies that produce goods or services that really need to operate 24/7. 

Christians are not only morally obligated to keep the sabbath, it is also in their own interest to do so. 

rsc


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## Croghanite (Aug 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> 
> 
> > If I were to apply for a position as a police officer, (which I have considered), I would let the management know that I do not work on Sundays. If I got the job and terrorists started to attack on a Sunday, I would go to work.
> ...



I cant imagine being a police officer who's regular scheduled work day is Sunday. Imagine doing that for one year or even your entire career. Writing that off to works of mercy and necessity just doesn't seem right. I didn't sanctify the Lords day because I was doing acts of mercy and necessity my whole career...?

I don't understand why we cant tell our employers that we worship God on that day and I am available if there is a true emergency. There are plenty of people out there who are willing to regularly work on Sundays.

[Edited on 8-10-2006 by LAYMAN JOE]


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## MW (Aug 9, 2006)

Ministers often hear people complain that they do not have enough time in life to think deeply about the things of God. At that point it is good to remind them that if God gives a man threescore and ten years, and then requires one day in seven for Himself, that amounts to ten years' opportunity to think deeply about the things of God. The average minister only spends three or four years in seminary.

If Puritan Sabbatarianism as expressed in the WCF is biblical, as I believe it is, then discipleship requires keeping one whole day in seven holy to the Lord, and that day is the Lord's day, or the first day of the week. There is no point evangelising people in order to convert them into Sabbath-breakers. You just turn them from one false religion to another. Sabbath sanctification is non-negotiable.


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## Croghanite (Aug 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by armourbearer_
> Ministers often hear people complain that they do not have enough time in life to think deeply about the things of God. At that point it is good to remind them that if God gives a man threescore and ten years, and then requires one day in seven for Himself, that amounts to ten years' opportunity to think deeply about the things of God. The average minister only spends three or four years in seminary.
> 
> If Puritan Sabbatarianism as expressed in the WCF is biblical, as I believe it is, then discipleship requires keeping one whole day in seven holy to the Lord, and that day is the Lord's day, or the first day of the week. There is no point evangelising people in order to convert them into Sabbath-breakers. You just turn them from one false religion to another. Sabbath sanctification is non-negotiable.


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## tbenavides (Aug 9, 2006)

Would like to hear from anyone who is actively involved with ministry in a major city. (ie. Los Angeles, New York, Houston, Chicago, etc..) What is your take on this discussion. Is it possible to engage in faithful ministry (Right Preaching of the Gospel, and Administration of the Sacrements, Discipline, etc..) and have alternate days, and times for people to honor the Lord in keeping Sabbath? I realize this was the practice of the early Christians in the 1st century, and even throughout History for that matter...However there has never been a time when cities are as Large as they are today. For Example those of you in LA, and in NY have between 8million and 10 million people leaving in the area. In addtion throughout the world this trend of ubanization is common, and growing. Lets say you are witnessing to your neighbor who is a single parent in your Apartment complex....and their only source of income is a job that requires them to work on Sundays fairly reguarly, as a result they are never able to attend Church with you. Do you think we would be bordering on legalism to suggest having an alternate day for people who are not able to attend on Sunday? When the WCF was written it was written in a time that the majority of the culture attended Church some where on Sunday even if they were Catholic. Today that is not the case...Any thoughts??? I'm bracing for the blows!!

[Edited on 8-10-2006 by tbenavides]


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## beej6 (Aug 9, 2006)

Anthony, not blows I will give but love taps  I don't believe your possible 'presuppositions' about metropolises or 24/7 industries should lead to changing the Sabbath day for our sake. It was already created by God for our sake; I don't see that we have warrant to change it for our convenience.



> Do you think we would be bordering on legalism to suggest having an alternate day for people who are not able to attend on Sunday?



No, that borders on antinomianism .


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## Puddleglum (Aug 9, 2006)

Anthony - good questions (I don't have answers!) . . . I remember hearing a pastor (who was a Sabbatarian) once say that his church would not force someone who had to work Sundays at a job in order to "keep soul and body together" to quit their job. However, I do think that Scripture do say that there is something different / special / set-apart about Sundays, so I don't think that we can start treating all the days of the week alike and have the "Tuesday evening worship service for those who can't come Sunday morning or evening". 
From my experience working on Sundays - it is normally possible (unless working 12-hour day shifts, or something like that) to make a service on Sunday. Of course, this has been because my home church has both a morning and an evening worship service, and there are other churches closer to where I live that also have two services on a Sunday - so, while I might not have ended up where I really wanted to go, I have been able to go somewhere, and God has blessed that. Of course, this is can be physically difficult - so in the example of your (hypothetical?) neighbour, you may have to offer some support - maybe invite her over for dinner and offer to watch the kids to make it easier for her to go to evening service? 

Joe - saying that something is a work of necessity or mercy isn't coming up with an excuse so that it's okay to work on Sunday. And I don't think that working a job of necessity or mercy on the Sabbath necessarily means that you aren't sanctifying the Lord's day. 
Also - it may not end up being for your whole career. I have a friend at church who has finally - after being an EMT and working on Sundays for many years - gotten a schedule change so that he is no longer required to do so. 
And there are NOT a lot of people who are willing to work Sundays. One of the jobs I've had where I did work Sundays, we were consistently chronically under-staffed on Sundays, because all but one person wanted Sundays off. So the rest of us worked some Sundays (well, I worked pretty much all of them, because some people with more seniority and whom the boss liked better got all of them off). 

Matthew - true, "there is no point evangelising people in order to convert them into Sabbath-breakers". But there is a lot of point in recognizing that ALL of us are Sabbath-breakers, and that sanctification is a life-long process. I know that my view / use of the Sabbath is something that God is still working on. And I've seen how God is working on other people I know, gradually bringing them to a better view of His day. So yes, part of discipling someone new to the faith should include working on how to use the Sabbath appropriately . . . but I would not say that because someone has claimed to be saved, but is a Sabbath-breaker, that they are really following a false religion. (I'm sorry if I mis-understood what you were saying and that's not what you really meant).


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## Puritanhead (Aug 9, 2006)

The Sabbath is Saturday anyway.


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## MW (Aug 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puddleglum_
> Matthew - true, "there is no point evangelising people in order to convert them into Sabbath-breakers". But there is a lot of point in recognizing that ALL of us are Sabbath-breakers, and that sanctification is a life-long process. I know that my view / use of the Sabbath is something that God is still working on. And I've seen how God is working on other people I know, gradually bringing them to a better view of His day. So yes, part of discipling someone new to the faith should include working on how to use the Sabbath appropriately . . . but I would not say that because someone has claimed to be saved, but is a Sabbath-breaker, that they are really following a false religion. (I'm sorry if I mis-understood what you were saying and that's not what you really meant).



We should distinguish between intention of obedience and perfection of obedience. So far as perfection is concerned, yes, we daily break the commandments of God in thought, word, and deed, and Christ is the only righteousness whereby we are acceptable to God. But there is an aspect of intention whereby a regenerate person does not sin, and the language of the apostle is applicable to them, that "such WERE some of you" so far as particular sins are concerned.

A person might claim to be saved and still intend to have other gods, worship God in their own way, take the Lord's name in vain, break the Sabbath day, dishonour parents, murder, commit adultery, steal, lie, and covet. What exactly is that person saved from? True evangelism and discipleship is not simply a matter of offering eternal life insurance. It consists in teaching people to observe all things whatsoever Christ has commanded, Matt. 28:19. Now if we are not Antinomian, and we believe the ten commandments are the moral law which Christ fulfilled for us, and which we will seek to obey if we love Him and desire to please Him, then discipleship includes teaching men to observe the ten commandments in obedience to Christ.

Yes, there is a time element, and God patiently bears with His people in their falls and faults. Yes, Christ requires mercy and not sacrifice. But this is in the path of obedience, not out of it. The gospel asks, "who is it that condemns thee?" but then it requires, "go and sin no more."

Any evangelism or discipleship that allows men to continue to intentionally break the commandments of God is not of God; the gospel teaches translation from darkness to light, not from a darker shade of dark to a lighter shade. The apostle tells us who the ministers of unrighteousness are servants of. I for one do not want to be counted amongst the servants of Satan.

Many blessings!


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## Puddleglum (Aug 10, 2006)

Matthew - I think I understand what you're saying better, now. Thanks!.


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