# Does Your Church Have Children's Church?



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 19, 2008)

Came up in another thread but I was wondering if anyone's churches excused children under a certain age during the Sunday morning/evening worship service into a separate worship or Sunday school? 

Also would like to hear from those who say yes the reason for why your church does have this.


----------



## BobVigneault (Jun 19, 2008)

My church (OPC) does not.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 19, 2008)

joshua said:


> I don't own a church.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 19, 2008)

Mine does. I believe my RP church I attended in the late 80's had a great Sabbath School for the younger kids. I can't remember if they stayed for the service or not. My Reformed Baptist Church in Virginia Beach excused the children before the sermon. My kids have stayed in the service with me for the past 7 years or so. One reason why was that my PCA Church didn't have a Childrens church for their age group. The Baptist Church I attend now has a children's church for the very young kids. On Sunday nights the teens group meets. It is an awesome group and the Pastor for the teens is really good. I like him a lot. He is spot on with the issues that the kids are dealing with. I like it also because He backs up what I say at home. That away the kids are getting it from me and another source.


----------



## DMcFadden (Jun 19, 2008)

I'm with Joshua (don't own a church). Man, I don't even rent one.

The church where we attend does have one and the kids are excused before the sermon (after the singing and offering). With 400 in the worship center, I'm not sure how it would go if we did not. However, the logic of my covenantal brethren for not having it is awfully attractive to me.

[If I ever live long enough to retire from my current ministry (11 years and counting), my hope is to join a Reformed Baptist or PCA (or OPC) church where they might or might not have one.]


----------



## R Harris (Jun 19, 2008)

Richard Bacon wrote a book a number of years ago entitled "Revealed to Babes: Children in the public worship of God", which obviously dealt with the issue at hand. He made a very compelling case (from Scripture, of course) that all people should partake in the congregational worship, from cradle to grave.

He deals with the issue of crying babies and unruly children, primarily by establishing a "cry/discipline room," which is essentially soundproof but the people can see the pastor through a large window and can hear the service through a piped in sound system.

My response to that is, well, then how did people manage in the old days without the technology? I don't recall that he really answered that question.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 19, 2008)

I know Churches that do have Cry Rooms/Nurseries that pipe in the Service. Too often I see cry rooms and Children's churches used as excuses to skip out of service.


----------



## RamistThomist (Jun 19, 2008)

That's where we would always have puppet shows.


----------



## Wannabee (Jun 19, 2008)

The church we BELONG TO is in process. We do have children's church right now, and are in the process of streamlining it. It's more of a catechism class that will have a distinct curriculum that will be gone through every year. The children who learn the material will go to church with their parents. The others can either go to the children's class or to services with their parents, whichever their parents desire. We won't promote it so much as offer it. And the curriculum is such that the kids cannot learn it without their parents helping them at home. The idea is to foster home worship and discipleship with a vision for eventually getting away from any children's classes at all. We don't offer any children's SS classes. Much of our decision on when the children meet is based on space. We have a small building and only two rooms to meet in.


----------



## Seb (Jun 19, 2008)

We have CC for 3 year olds through 3rd grade. I understand it's primarily to present the Gospel and songs in a more age appropriate manner. Less formal, more accommodating. 

My wife and I are always amazed at how good of a job they do with our 4 year old. She worships, learns and they always have a 'feast' at the end. It's not the Lord's Supper by any means, nor meant to be, but it's a special fellowship time for all of the little ones.


----------



## Timothy William (Jun 19, 2008)

joshua said:


> I don't own a church.



Joshua, far be it for me to correct you, but you should go back and check the requirements for joining the Puritan Board; I'm sure church ownership was in there somewhere. 

The church I'm currently attending has a Children's Church. The PRC church doesn't. I'm not entirely averse to the idea, as there can be some benefit to teaching children separately. However many children are kept (or keep themselves) in children's church long after they have outgrown it, and should be in public worship with the whole congregation.


----------



## Pilgrim (Jun 19, 2008)

I answered "other." The church I am currently attending does not have "children's church" but it's not an applicable question to us because we are a small church plant that has no children presently! I haven't discussed the issue with the leadership so don't know whether they would have it if we had children or not. But we would have to grow considerably larger than we are now for it to become a issue one way or another.


----------



## blhowes (Jun 19, 2008)

Generally speaking, is children's church frowned upon (for lack of a better term) in most reformed churches? Do most reformed churches expect children of all ages to be in the regular worship service?


----------



## Dwimble (Jun 19, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> The church where we attend does have one and the kids are excused before the sermon (after the singing and offering)...



That's the way it is for us, too.

Our daughter is still too young for it (almost 20 months), so we currently put her in the nursery around the time they dismiss the kids from the service. For awhile we tried to keep her with us throughout the service, but she had too much difficulty with it, and I don't want to disrupt others and interfere with their receiving the message. Going forward, I don't know yet whether or not we will send her to children's church when she is old enough. I'd like to have her there in the service with us when she is old enough to handle sitting and/or listening quietly.



DMcFadden said:


> [If I ever live long enough to retire from my current ministry (11 years and counting), my hope is to join a Reformed Baptist or PCA (or OPC) church where they might or might not have one.]



Ha ha...I might or might not agree or disagree with you or someone else about that or some other thing.


----------



## jwithnell (Jun 19, 2008)

Where I am a member, children's attendance follows a fairly predictable pattern: we bring them in as infants; when they start getting loud and mobile, they go down to a nursery where the service may be heard. The stated "upper limit" for the nursery is 4, but many children in the 18 month + group are back up in the service. Adults rotate taking care of the young'uns. In short, without a stated policy, we make every effort to have all age ranges worshipping together, realizing that toddlers need a little extra wiggle room.


----------



## DMcFadden (Jun 19, 2008)

Sorry, Michael, 

Trying to get my real work done and drop in on the PB leaves me with cryptic and inartful sentences. I would like to retire and unite with a confessional church. Since many of them seem to frown on children's church, it is quite likely that they will not have one in the church I join. It was intended to express flexible indifference on the subject. That is all I meant by the comment.


----------



## Dwimble (Jun 19, 2008)

Didn't bother me...to me it just looked like some flexibility with a dash of humor. That why I laughed at it.


----------



## staythecourse (Jun 19, 2008)

blhowes said:


> Generally speaking, is children's church frowned upon (for lack of a better term) in most reformed churches? Do most reformed churches expect children of all ages to be in the regular worship service?



It is frowned on in our church and I see children 4 and under taught how to stay still for an hour. Not just some of them, every one of them. It's a social study almost. All the kids know they will be removed and disciplined with spanking if need be. The parents know all the other parents expect the child to get pulled from the service and return with a child that is back under control. And, a child gets pulled out every Sunday, sometimes more than once. Rarely more than twice 

Children are more capable than we think in hearing a sermon and getting points in the message. What we frown on is separating the family from worship.

We do have Sunday School where the children learn Church History, catechisms, Bible memorization, and lessons, too.

I need to add that we have nursing and baby rooms so that families can sit together when they have very small children.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 19, 2008)

Links and Downloads Manager - Worship - Children and Worship -- Karl Hubenthal - The PuritanBoard


----------



## Herald (Jun 19, 2008)

We'll be in a smaller facility in about a month. Out of necessity children's church will be discontinued. Some may think it's temporary but I am going to do everything in my power to make sure it is permanent.


----------



## staythecourse (Jun 19, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> We'll be in a smaller facility in about a month. Out of necessity children's church will be discontinued. Some may think it's temporary but I am going to do everything in my power to make sure it is permanent.





The benefits of the family learning how to manage themselves and be in Christ's presence (as Brother Andrews link pointed out) far exceed the pragmatism of sending the "noisy and easily distracted" children away!

I hope God blesses your efforts and the rest in the decision-making agree with you, Bill. I am one who has seen both and this approach is much better in raising disciplined little ones. Those Puritans knew what was up, again...


----------



## jaybird0827 (Jun 19, 2008)

No children's church here.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 19, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> I answered "other." The church I am currently attending does not have "children's church" but it's not an applicable question to us because we are a small church plant that has no children presently! I haven't discussed the issue with the leadership so don't know whether they would have it if we had children or not. But we would have to grow considerably larger than we are now for it to become a issue one way or another.



That is a good "other"


----------



## toddpedlar (Jun 19, 2008)

You bet, our church has a "Children's Church".

It meets at the same time, place and duration as our "Adults Church", "Teens Church", "Men's Church", "Women's Church", and the ever popular "Disenfranchised Others Church".


----------



## Galatians220 (Jun 19, 2008)

blhowes said:


> Generally speaking, is children's church frowned upon (for lack of a better term) in most reformed churches? Do most reformed churches expect children of all ages to be in the regular worship service?


 
I don't know about "most reformed churches," but ours expects the children to be there for the service, as they are to learn the whole counsel of God from an early age... 

"Crying rooms" were innovations of the Sixties, when people, especially kids, were no longer expected to sit down, shut up and behave themselves, exhibiting appropriate decorum, in certain places. We Catholics, though, were always expected to do so... As a kid, I was an exception that proved the rule. 

Right before I left the RCC, I used to use the crying room there (by that time, they had them, but my son was older and didn't need to be in there) as an escape from the blasphemy on the outside. You could play with other people's kids in there and I enjoyed at least that.  

Margaret


----------



## KMK (Jun 19, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> I answered "other." The church I am currently attending does not have "children's church" but it's not an applicable question to us because we are a small church plant that has no children presently! I haven't discussed the issue with the leadership so don't know whether they would have it if we had children or not. But we would have to grow considerably larger than we are now for it to become a issue one way or another.



I guess, to be honest, I am in a similar situation. Our church meets in a small community building and has no room for a 'children's church'. (Unless they were to meet in the kitchen or the bathroom) The fact that we do not have a 'children's church' is a matter of practicality rather than propriety.


----------



## Pilgrim (Jun 19, 2008)

Now our church does have some kids present, maybe 4 of them between the ages of 8 and 15. I was thinking of small children when I read the OP. And they are present for our Core Seminar (Sunday School) as well, although they typically don't participate that much. Our interim pastor is making more of an effort to make sure that they are included in the discussions as well.


----------



## Herald (Jun 19, 2008)

KMK said:


> Pilgrim said:
> 
> 
> > I answered "other." The church I am currently attending does not have "children's church" but it's not an applicable question to us because we are a small church plant that has no children presently! I haven't discussed the issue with the leadership so don't know whether they would have it if we had children or not. But we would have to grow considerably larger than we are now for it to become a issue one way or another.
> ...



Ken, I pray it becomes a matter of conviction. When you expand to a larger facility you will not have to give in to the separation of families.


----------



## Southern Presbyterian (Jun 19, 2008)

staythecourse said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > We'll be in a smaller facility in about a month. Out of necessity children's church will be discontinued. Some may think it's temporary but I am going to do everything in my power to make sure it is permanent.
> ...



I second the  and will add my  for the desired result.


----------



## LadyFlynt (Jun 20, 2008)

Ours does not. We meet for services, we lunch together, we meet for Catechism.


----------



## JonathanHunt (Jun 20, 2008)

I answered 'other' because 'childrens church' these days usually involves a total seperation of parents from children from the moment they walk in the church building door.

On the Sunday mornings that we do have children present (usually every other week) then they will go out for a lesson just before the sermon. Some do not think this is right, I am undecided. What I cannot justify is adults and children being seperated every moment in corporate worship.

If the lady that teaches the children is away, and I am preaching, I have them stay in and follow the sermon via pre-prepared worksheets that I create to run in harmony with what I am saying.

In the evening service my son is the only child who attends, and he sits all the way through - but he is getting to the age where that is a lot easier now (11)

JH


----------



## KMK (Jun 20, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > Pilgrim said:
> ...



It is a matter of conviction in my own heart. I just wanted to be honest that it is a conviction that as of yet has not been put to the test.

I think the fact that we do not have a children's church has turned many visitors away. They have expressed doubt about their children's ability to sit quietly through a rather long service. Those who do try us out, however, are often surprised at how well their children do. In fact, by and large, it is the children in our church who look forward most to coming! The way they fellowship together is a model for the adults.

We do make available a coloring page and word search that goes along with the sermon. This seems to help the confidence of those visitors who have small children.


----------



## raekwon (Jun 20, 2008)

We have Children's Church (kids are dismissed after the singing/before the sermon), and our church is *strongly* covenantal. "How can those things go together," you might ask. Well . . .

First, a practical rationale. Our church meets at 6 PM out of necessity (the building that we rent belongs to another church, and it's in use in the mornings and afternoons). By the time the sermon comes along, it's about 6:45-7, and the younger kids simply do not have the physical or mental resources to stay attentive and/or awake during a substantial (both in content and time) sermon. So, we send them to Children's Church. How does our covenantalism play into this? By heavily involving the kids' parents in the ministry. The curriculum we use (_Children Desiring God_ from John Piper's church) is engaging, theologically rich, grace-filled, and is structured in such a way that kids can understand and parents are encouraged to talk about the things the kids learn throughout the week. This is vastly preferable, we believe, to keeping the kids in there and just having them fall asleep during the sermon. These kids are getting the Gospel week after week from this curriculum, and their parents are reinforcing what they learn at church through the week.

I agree with most of you folks here in that I think that most churches that do some form of Children's Church have no covenantal framework and simply send the kids off because "that's how it's always been done" with no intentionality. The way our church applies our belief that God works in covenant families in a different way than most of yours do, but it's certainly there.


----------



## JBaldwin (Jun 20, 2008)

Children's Church? We don't even have Sunday School, though we may have both down the road. I like having the children in worship, even though they are sometimes a distraction.


----------



## Sonoftheday (Jun 20, 2008)

I chose other because mine has a preschool Children's church. Children 5 and under have classrooms they are in during church. This could be considered nursery so I chose other.

(I hope my info is accurate, I do not personally have children over 15months so I am unsure, but this is how I think it is.)


----------



## staythecourse (Jun 20, 2008)

KMK said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > KMK said:
> ...



Hey Ken. Our pastor said the same thing: that we lose some young families because they are are afraid their kids will act up. We have back seats with a sign that says "for families with young children" and two mom's rooms which are rooms just behind the congregation with glass partitions and piped in sound.


----------



## jwithnell (Jun 20, 2008)

I might add something from my own experience -- my family attended a mainline Presbyterian church as I was growing up, so I never really heard the gospel until much later. However, I don't remember a time when I didn't know the Lord's prayer, the Apostles' Creed, the doxology, and a big pile of hymns tunes and many of their words. I think this is because children in that church almost couldn't be too little to be in church for all but the sermon when they were dismissed to go to the nursery. I am grateful for that background, although I understand the point of view that the sermon shouldn't be missed either.

Another thought, I've wondered if the pew boxes from the colonial era aided families in keeping their children in church. They might be a little noisy, but their ability to move would have been greatly limited. 

Yet another thought -- the whole church would certainly have to support having the kids there through the sermon. I think that leads me to pull my kids out as they start making any noise at all, although I've visited churches where a certain level of noise (not bad) was tolerated.


----------



## Blessed5x (Jun 20, 2008)

Here is a link from Vision Forum for National Center for Family-Integrated Churches:

National Center for Family-Integrated Churches - Vision Forum Ministries

I do not know anything about the other congregations or families listed, except for the church we are attending (Covenant Family Fellowship, Birmingham, AL)


----------



## fredtgreco (Jun 20, 2008)

Blessed5x said:


> Here is a link from Vision Forum for National Center for Family-Integrated Churches:
> 
> National Center for Family-Integrated Churches - Vision Forum Ministries
> 
> I do not know anything about the other congregations or families listed, except for the church we are attending (Covenant Family Fellowship, Birmingham, AL)



I have to admit - this list is hillarious. Not your church, but the mere existence of such a list. Yes, of course I need to find a "family integrated church" (whatever that means). Is it charismatic? pentecostal? dispensational? paedobaptist? credobaptist? anabaptist?!? Who knows? Who cares? So long as it is "family integrated!"


----------



## calgal (Jun 20, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Blessed5x said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a link from Vision Forum for National Center for Family-Integrated Churches:
> ...



And how nice to make the distinction between "families" with mommy daddy and kids and "others."  This "other" (married but our kids have 4 legs and drink from the toilet) is relieved to find our church is NOT on the list.


----------



## Blessed5x (Jun 20, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Blessed5x said:
> 
> 
> > Here is a link from Vision Forum for National Center for Family-Integrated Churches:
> ...



I should probably qualify my link by saying I am not a Vision Forum advocate. I think this list came about as there were many homeschooling families who were trying to be consistent in their concern that the church was not copying the age-segregation mindset of the world (i.e. public school). Many churches are not pro-family in that as soon as they see a family with many children they are quick to usher them off to the nursery, children's church, etc. These churches were basically telling many families, that having their children in the worship service would be an "interuption" to the worship and they weren't welcome. I believe there were many homeschoolers (from various doctrinal backgrounds) looking to attend a church where their whole family was welcome in the worship service so that was the reason for the development of the list. I have seen similar types of lists listing churches (again coming from various doctrinal backgrounds) that sing the Psalms. I totally agree that whether a church is considered "family-integrated" in their corporate worship should not be the only qualification for selecting a church to join.


----------



## jawyman (Jun 20, 2008)

Pastor has a children's moment or illustration that ties into the text and the sermon, but when the children's moment is over the kids are dismissed back to us parents.


----------



## KMK (Jun 20, 2008)

jawyman said:


> Pastor has a children's moment or illustration that ties into the text and the sermon, but when the children's moment is over the kids are dismissed back to us parents.



That's interesting. At my church, I often have a 'senior moment'.


----------



## ahavah7 (Jun 20, 2008)

calgal said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Blessed5x said:
> ...



Woohoo, my church is on the list!


----------

