# Why Does God Allow Suffering?



## Tripel (Sep 8, 2010)

I saw this question on TIME magazine's website, and I was immediately skeptical what the author had to say. Turns out, it was a Q&A with Joni Eareckson Tada. It's brief, but definitely worth reading

Author Joni Eareckson Tada on Why God Allows Suffering - TIME


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## Zenas (Sep 8, 2010)

Asking these types of questions, while they seem initially important and relevant, become all the more irrelevant when you delve into them. It's like asking "Why is there gravity?" Well, because God designed it to be so. Asking "why" and expecting a meaningful answer other than the obvious tends to presuppose that there is some sort of causation we need to understand and that God's actions are a reaction to that cause. It's why we ask. When we understand there is no causative force, the irrellevancy and futility of the question become apparent and I at least wonder why I ever thought it important initially.

To flesh out this a little more, consider an answer I frequently give to why there is suffering, "Because God uses it to glorify Himself either in the punishment of someone who is outside of Christ and at emnity with God, or through the discipline or perseverance of one who is righteous in Christ enduring it." 

By why do those reasons glorify God? Because on one hand it exemplifies justice and on the other it exemplifies faith and perseverance and those glorify God. 

Ok, why do they glorify God? The answer is simple, because God determined that they would. What needs to be understood, and what is overlooked when we see these answers, is that God wrote _all_ of the rules, including the rules that govern the rules that govern the rules. A rule owes its coherency to the coherency of another rule, and so on and so forth. Ultimately all rules, including those that govern others that govern others, etc., owe their coherency to God who created them. 

It ought to be clear, or it is clear to me, that the original question is therefore extremely irrelevant, and the simple, very shallow answer, "Because God designed it to be." is so much more deep than it appears.


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## Tripel (Sep 8, 2010)

Andrew,
You may find these questions futile, but they are still questions that the majority of people (both in and out of the church) are wrestling with. And if these are questions that so many lost people struggle to answer, it's not all that irrelevant. It's encouraging to see a media outlet like TIME give Joni Eareckson Tada a chance to answer them.


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## Zenas (Sep 8, 2010)

I think you misunderstand me, I'm not complaining, and I even admit that they appear to be important. If you don't understand the depth of sovereignty, then it's a very pressing question as to why suffering exists.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 8, 2010)

I saw this shortly after the earthquake in Haiti. I think this video by Vodie Baucham puts the question in its proper perspective. It is probably, functionally, my favorite answer of all time.

[video=youtube;lD1yv4J6ohE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1yv4J6ohE[/video]


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## Peairtach (Sep 8, 2010)

Suffering exists because we're sinners.

As far as I'm aware Adam and Eve didn't have suffering until they sinned.

Suffering was graciously introduced to give them and us a taste of Hell without sending them and us there, so that they/we would avoid the ultimate reality to which earthly suffering points.

God in His grace didn't immediately cast Man into Hell when he sinned.


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## jwithnell (Sep 8, 2010)

The more relevant question: why is there any peace and joy in a world where man freely chose to rebel against his creator?


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## JBaldwin (Sep 9, 2010)

SolaScriptura said:


> I saw this shortly after the earthquake in Haiti. I think this video by Vodie Baucham puts the question in its proper perspective. It is probably, functionally, my favorite answer of all time.
> 
> [video=youtube;lD1yv4J6ohE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lD1yv4J6ohE[/video]


 
Wow, thanks for sharing that. It really does put things into perspective.


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 9, 2010)

I like what Os Guinness said. In summary:

If there is a God big enough to even ask that question of then we are arrogant to assume that we're big enough to understand the reason God has for it.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 9, 2010)

Os Guinness's book Unspeakable is the best I have read on this.


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## Zenas (Sep 9, 2010)

He also makes tasty beer.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 9, 2010)

Zenas said:


> He also makes tasty beer.


 
The interesting thing is that he actually is a direct descendant of Arthur Guinness.


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## Andres (Sep 9, 2010)

Zenas said:


> He also makes tasty beer.


 
Don't forget about all the world records he keeps.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 9, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Sorry to sidetrack, but where does Os Guinness go to church?


 
I believe he is Anglican. I am not sure of the particular church he attends. He lives in D.C.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 9, 2010)

Thanks for that info Joshua. I remember him saying he was ordained by the Church of England but soon discovered he was not called to Pastoral ministry.


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## Paul Trask (Sep 10, 2010)

*I agree with Joni's explanation about suffering.*

My father abuse me and resulting turmoil in my life was overwhelming. When I was at my lowest I cried out to God to he rescued me and he came and he filled my soul with his love, joy and peace. I am ruling elder at my Church and lead a small group and disciple men. I have ALS and I can no longer speak, my leg and arms are getting weaker and I have feeding tube but I am still filled with my Lords joy, I feel his love and I am at peace and I am content.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Sep 10, 2010)

jwithnell said:


> The more relevant question: why is there any peace and joy in a world where man freely chose to rebel against his creator?


 
I don't think this is true at all. There is NO _true peace_ in the minds of carnal people, neither is there ANY _true joy_ in their hearts. In other words, there is NO _true happiness_ in this fallen world. I argue this, for the fruits of God's spirit are HOLY - which are "love, _joy_, _peace_, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance" (Gal. 5:22, 23). Also, the Bible couldn't say it any more clearly than this, "_There is no peace_, saith the LORD, _unto the wicked_" (Is. 48:22). Also, "_The way of peace they know not_; and there is no judgment in their goings: they have made them crooked paths: whosoever goeth therein shall not know peace" (59:8). _Peace_ is something God requires of us, "without which no man shall see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14) - how, then, could there possibly exist such a thing in the hearts of the wicked? Now, regarding _joy_: "_Even in laughter the heart is sorrowful_; and _the end of that mirth is heaviness_" (Prov. 14:13). I would say, that, even if the Bible didn't assert this, I couldn't in good conscience say the wicked have any joy at all. When I look at the lives of the ungodly, I only need to look at their face, and what I see in their eyes is only _hatred_, _envy_, _pride_ and _bitterness_ - YES, _even when they laugh and pretend to be happy_! They may think that by connecting their _temporal pleasures _they can achieve _permanent joy_, but all they end up is _bitterness_ of heart.


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## jwithnell (Sep 12, 2010)

> There is NO true peace in the minds of carnal people, neither is there ANY true joy in their hearts. In other words, there is NO true happiness in this fallen world.



There is real peace, joy, and happiness in Christ. This was owed to absolutely no one after Adam freely chose to rebel. That _anyone_ is saved unto everlasting peace is far more relevant than wondering why there is unhappiness in a fallen world.


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## Zenas (Sep 12, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Zenas said:
> 
> 
> > He also makes tasty beer.
> ...


 
He's his great-great-great grandson if I recall correctly. He's featured a bit in "The Truth Project" which I'm watching in Sunday School along with R.C. Sproul and Ravi Zacharias. I enjoy his bits.


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## Mushroom (Sep 12, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Joshua said:
> ...


I attended the funeral of a retired AF Lt Gen at that Church in 2001, where he had been a member. I was shocked to hear a very sound gospel sermon preached, and then quite impressed that they seceded from the American episcopacy to join with a more faithful African communion. That took courage. I understand they are still battling for ownership of the extremely valuable historical building they occupy.


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## Paul Trask (Sep 13, 2010)

n John 20 verse 21 Jesus tells us: "Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you. (NIV)

In Acts Barnabas and Paul are beside themselves that people in Derbe are going to sacrifice an animal to them treating them like gods. Then he went on to say, "Men, why are you doing this? We too are only men, human like you. We are bringing you good news, telling you to turn from these worthless things to the living God, who made heaven and earth and sea and everything in them. In the past, he let all nations go their own way. Yet he has not left himself without testimony: He has shown kindness by giving you rain from heaven and crops in their seasons; he provides you with plenty of food and fills your hearts with joy." (NIV)

In Act 16 Silas and Paul were witnessing to a slave girl who had demon inside her and she would predict the future and her owner made money for her skill. When she was healed the owner became angry and through the town into an uproar and took Silas and Paul the Magistrate the flog them and put them in the inner most part of prison and locked the feet in stocks. About midnight Paul and Silas were praying and singing hymns to God, and the other prisoners were listening the them. (NIV) I contend in an inner joy in them caused them to pray and to sing.

Paul question the Galatians asking them "What has happened to your joy? Why did ask this because the false teaching crept into the fellowship and started teaching false doctrines and lead them to consider another way to god. (NIV)

In Philippians 1:25-26 Paul is teaching the Philippians and says, "I am Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me." (NIV)

In Philippians 4:4-9 Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your request to God. And the peace of God, which transcends all understanding, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus. Finally, brothers, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable--if anything is excellent or praise worthy--think about such thing.
[/I] (NIV)

In I Thessalonians in chapter 1 Paul thanking God for how he has taken care of them and how they obeying in the faith Paul says, For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you, because of our gospel came to you not simply with words, but with the power of the Holy Spirit and with conviction. You know how we lived among you for your sake. You became imitators of us and of the Lord; in spite of severe suffering, you welcomed the message the joy given by the Holy Spirit.[/I] (NIV)

In I Peter 1:3-7 Peter says, "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ?" According to his great mercy, he has caused us to be born again to living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ for the dead, to an inheritance that imperishable, undefiled, and unfading kept in heaven for you, who by God's power are being guarded "through faith for a salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. In this you rejoice, though now for a little while, as was necessary, you have been grieved by various trials, so that the tested genuineness of your faith--more precious than gold that parishes though it is tested by fire--may be found to result in praise and glory and honor at the revelation of Jesus Christ. (ESV)

I John 1:4 says, "And we are writing these things so that our joy may be complete."

II John 1:12 [/B]"Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use pen and ink. Instead I hope to come to you and talk face to face, so that our joy may be complete. _*(ESV)

I contend that a sad Christian is contradiction in terms. Christians look to their salvation to their future resurrection. We hold on the promises God has given us and believe them. I came to came to Christ I wanted him heal all of me and every aspect of my life.

Isaiah 35; Isaiah 57:15; Jeremiah 29:10-14; Hebrews 13:5-6; Hosea 61-3; Habakkuk 3:17-19; Zephaniah 3:16-17; Roman 8; John 1:12; Galatians 6:20; Psalm 42 & 73; I Thessalonians 4:13-18; I Timothy 6:11-16; Titus 2:11-14; Titus 3:3-7

When think about these verses and passages fill me with great hope and that hope fills me with joy because I know my God is true and keeps every promise he ever made. I may have ALS but I am content with my life and no one can tell me otherwise. Read my personal blog below is the address.

A Grace Filled Life*_


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Sep 13, 2010)

jwithnell said:


> > There is NO true peace in the minds of carnal people, neither is there ANY true joy in their hearts. In other words, there is NO true happiness in this fallen world.
> 
> 
> 
> There is real peace, joy, and happiness in Christ. This was owed to absolutely no one after Adam freely chose to rebel. That _anyone_ is saved unto everlasting peace is far more relevant than wondering why there is unhappiness in a fallen world.


 
I didn't address this to God's children, but to the carnal minded, who live in enmity with God.


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