# Rejection of the Jews and a final ingathering



## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2008)

In the second half of Matthew's Gospel there is so much bad news for Israel at that time. Most of Jesus' parables seemed aimed at them right between the eyes.


It even seems that Jesus cursed their national symbol, the fig tree (his only destructive miracle it seems) to show forth that the nation Israel would be cast aside. 

Do you agree with my assessment of this fig tree incident, by the way?


Yet many of the Reformed are hopeful for the eternal salvation of the Jews as a people. 

Why is that and what are some quotes and links you can give me?


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## KMK (Nov 29, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> In the second half of Matthew's Gospel there is so much bad news for Israel at that time. Most of Jesus' parables seemed aimed at them right between the eyes.
> 
> 
> It even seems that Jesus cursed their national symbol, the fig tree (his only destructive miracle it seems) to show forth that the nation Israel would be cast aside.
> ...



I think all of the Reformed would agree that any future for ethnic Israel would include faith in Lord Jesus Christ. That is a far cry from some of the premillennial Dispensational views of the subject.


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## timmopussycat (Nov 29, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> In the second half of Matthew's Gospel there is so much bad news for Israel at that time. Most of Jesus' parables seemed aimed at them right between the eyes.
> 
> It even seems that Jesus cursed their national symbol, the fig tree (his only destructive miracle it seems) to show forth that the nation Israel would be cast aside.
> 
> ...



Christ cursed their national symbol, but he did not curse them as a nation. Paul in Rom. 11:25ff is seen by some, for example the ESV, to indicate that there is a mass future turning of the Jews (ethnic group) to Christ.



ESV footnote said:


> Rom. 11:26 in this way all Israel will be saved. Various interpreters have claimed that Paul is speaking of: (1) the salvation of the church of Jesus Christ, both Jews and Gentiles, throughout history; or (2) the saving of a remnant of Jews throughout history; or (3) the salvation of the end-time generation of the Jewish people in the future. The first view is unlikely since throughout chs. 9–11 Israel and Gentiles are distinct ethnic entities. Furthermore, in 11:25 Israel refers to ethnic Israel, and it is difficult to see how the referent could suddenly change in v. 26. Finally, v. 28 indicates that ethnic Israel is still distinguished from Gentiles, for “they” in v. 28 clearly refers to ethnic Israel. The third view, that Paul refers to the salvation of Israel at the end of history, seems most likely because: (1) it fits with the promises of God's future work in vv. 12 and 15; (2) it is difficult to see how the salvation of a remnant of Jews all through history would qualify as a mystery; (3) the future salvation of ethnic Israel at the end of history accords with the climactic character of this passage; and (4) it demonstrates finally and fully how God is faithful to fulfill his saving promises to his people (9:6). “All Israel” does not necessarily refer to every single Jewish person but to a very large number, at least the majority of Jews. The Deliverer coming from Zion probably refers to Christ (cf. 1 Thess. 1:10), suggesting that the Jews will be saved near or at the second coming.


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2008)

What's the purpose of cursing their national symbol if they were not, in fact, cursed by being cut off (even temporarily)?


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## satz (Nov 29, 2008)

_Galatians 3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ._

_Galatians 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise._

I had always believed that Gal 3:16 shows that even from the beginning, there was nothing truly "special" about being a Jew. Right from the start God already had Christ and the elect in mind, not the physical descendants of Abraham. There was a special civil covenant made with Israel as a nation during the OT, but I don't believe there is any special significance attached to being a Jew at this present time in redemptive history.


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## madman63 (Nov 29, 2008)

Good Morning all, this is my first post, so please forgive my possible clumsiness. Now when I read Romans 11:26I first have to read verse 25 which says, "...until the fullness of the Gentiles have come in." and then goes on with verse 26.

I do not believe the total of natural Israel will be saved, but the new Israel is made up of both natural Jews and Gentiles grafted in, so when all of the elect have been saved in that way all of Israel will be saved, we as believers are part of Israel.


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## BJClark (Nov 29, 2008)

If we look at what Scripture says, God has sheep in many fold that He must bring in..

Eze 34:6 My sheep wandered through all the mountains, and upon every high hill: yea, my flock was scattered upon all the face of the earth, and none did search or seek [after them]. 

Eze 34:11 For thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I, [even] I, will both search my sheep, and seek them out. 

Eze 34:12 As a shepherd seeketh out his flock in the day that he is among his sheep [that are] scattered; so will I seek out my sheep, and will deliver them out of all places where they have been scattered in the cloudy and dark day. 

Jhn 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, [and] one shepherd. 

But to me, these verses tell me that Israel will be blind until the fullness of the Gentiles come in, so why shouldn't we be hopeful?

Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; *that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.*

Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:


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## YXU (Nov 29, 2008)

There are a lot of OT scriptures talking about the restoration of Israel, we have not seen their full fullfilment yet. Jeremiah Chapter 31, we have not seen it be fulfilled completely yet.


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2008)

Explain?


Would unfulfilled prophecies concerning a future ingathering of the Jews be compatible with partial preterism?


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## TheFleshProfitethNothing (Nov 29, 2008)

"Partial Preterism"? I have heard that term before. Do those that use it mean "Historicist"? or is Partial Preterism something entirely different? Just for clarification...I may decide to make a statement after anyone's response to this one, in regards to my understanding of Israel's place in eschatology...though the over-all idea is the same as one previously posted.


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## KMK (Nov 29, 2008)

TheFleshProfitethNothing said:


> "Partial Preterism"? I have heard that term before. Do those that use it mean "Historicist"? or is Partial Preterism something entirely different? Just for clarification...I may decide to make a statement after anyone's response to this one, in regards to my understanding of Israel's place in eschatology...though the over-all idea is the same as one previously posted.



'Partial Preterism' is 'Preterism'. They have recently added the word 'partial' to their label in order to distance themselves from 'Hyper-preterism' which teaches that Christ returned for the last time back in the year 70 AD.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Nov 30, 2008)

In another thread it is discussed if indeed the fig tree is "the national symbol" of Israel, and I believe sufficiently answered in the negative, although when the Lord cursed the fig tree for being fruitless (Mark 11:12-14, 20, 21; Matt 21:18-20) there it _was_ a symbol of national Israel.

When Romans 11:25 uses the term "until the fulness of the Gentiles" this does not necessitate "until" to mean after the "fulness" the Jewish nation would lose their blindness; see how Psalm 112:8 uses this same grammatical construction: "His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, until he see his desire upon his enemies." It does not mean that he would be afraid after he sees his desire upon his enemies, but rather would continue fearless. Likewise with Romans: Israel would continue blind until the fulness of the elect Gentiles was completed. Wm. Hendriksen translates it thus:

...a hardening has come upon part of Israel (and will last) until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.​
He makes clear that this obtains from the initial rejection of Messiah till the end of the age, and also that a remnant of Jews is being saved all through that same period.

This, in the view of some, shows that the "Puritan Hope" view of a major ingathering of Jews at the end is not warranted. Which is not to say it can not happen, but simply that it is not inevitable, nor deducible from Scripture. I for one hope and desire it does happen, for they are my beloved people after the flesh.

The Israel of God is being ingathered, and has been from ancient times and will be till the last elect soul is brought in. The focus at this stage in history is primarily on the Gentiles, and when the last of them is brought in, this is the end.

Permit me, please, to put something here from a related thread:

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Israel would be restored? More pertinent is the question, What _is_ Israel?

A warning to the people of Israel given by God through Moses in his Fifth Book bears directly on this:

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put My words in His mouth; and He shall speak unto them all that I shall command Him.

And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto My words which He shall speak in My name, I will require it of him. (Deut. 18:18, 19)​
This is a warning to heed the words of those appointed to the prophetic office, and in particular Him who is the culmination and fulfillment of that office, the Messiah, whom New Covenant believers know as Jesus of Nazareth. The phrase, “I will require it of him,” means in this instance, “I will require his place among My people and his life.” Consider the destruction to be visited on those who with wicked hearts refused to “hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all His commandments…” (Deut 28:15), which promised destruction is shown in the remainder of that passage, so you may comprehend the dread import of the words “I will require it…” to the Jewish nation after Messiah appeared among them.

Messiah’s apostle, Peter, in quoting from Deuteronomy 18:15, 19 as he spoke to the people of Israel, rendered it, “And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that Prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people.” (Acts 3:22, 23)

Simply put, God openly cleft all those who refused His word through Messiah from the people of Israel, like a butcher cuts away gristle. As with a great cleaver He divided the nation, those who were His, and those who were not, even as aged Simeon prophesied over the infant Jesus in the temple, “Behold, this child is set for the falling and rising again of many in Israel…” (Luke 2:34; Cf. Isaiah 8:14, 15)

From this point on, the people of Israel gathered around their King, Messiah Jesus. Those who did not were “cut off” from the people by the judicial decree of God. Jesus Himself foretold this event when He announced to the chief priests and elders of Israel, “The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.” (Matthew 21:43) Immediately prior to that statement He told them the same thing in the parable of the vineyard, there holding up a mirror to their motives and actions (verses 33-41). Many of the priests, and some Pharisees, did turn to Him.

Those Jews who refused to heed Messiah were cut off from the nation, no longer counted among Israel. The Jewish state of today is an impostor Israel. Israel restored? That is what Jesus did on Pentecost and is still doing, until the very last of the elect -- both Jew and Gentile -- is brought in.


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## KMK (Dec 2, 2008)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> When Romans 11:25 uses the term "until the fulness of the Gentiles" this does not necessitate "until" to mean after the "fulness" the Jewish nation would lose their blindness; see how Psalm 112:8 uses this same grammatical construction: "His heart is established, he shall not be afraid, until he see his desire upon his enemies." It does not mean that he would be afraid after he sees his desire upon his enemies, but rather would continue fearless. Likewise with Romans: Israel would continue blind until the fulness of the elect Gentiles was completed. Wm. Hendriksen translates it thus:
> 
> ...a hardening has come upon part of Israel (and will last) until the fulness of the Gentiles has come in.​
> He makes clear that this obtains from the initial rejection of Messiah till the end of the age, and also that a remnant of Jews is being saved all through that same period.



Interesting. What about 1 Cor 11:26? For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death *till he come*.


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