# Dr. Hovind charged with mail fraud



## fralo4truth (Mar 2, 2015)

I hardly know whether to post this here or in the prayer forum. Dr. Hovind is from my neck of the woods and I found his creation seminar very helpful in delivering me from belief in the gap theory and other faulty positions. As the article relates he was originally scheduled for release this year but he is now facing new charges.

Should Creation Teacher Spend the Rest of His Life in Prison?/


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## Bill The Baptist (Mar 2, 2015)

Meanwhile Al Sharpton owes millions in back taxes and remains free


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## Edward (Mar 2, 2015)

He violated a major rule of life - when you find yourself in a hole, put down the shovel.


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## aadebayo (Mar 3, 2015)

Edward said:


> He violated a major rule of life - when you find yourself in a hole, put down the shovel.



That is true. As our Lord says, if we a commanded to go one mile, we should go twain. For example as I read in an article yesterday, if arrested for preaching the gospel, do not resist arrest, cooperate with the authorities and plead guilty to any charge associated with preaching the gospel. Our Lord who was tried on false charges allowed Himself to be unjustly convicted and crucified, because doing so enabled us to receive forgiveness for our sins. Also there are brothers and sisters in countries such as Iran, Iraq, Syria, North Korea and other such countries that do not have the privilege we in the West have.


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## Fogetaboutit (Mar 3, 2015)

aadebayo said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > He violated a major rule of life - when you find yourself in a hole, put down the shovel.
> ...




The example of Christ not appealing his arrest is unique and had a special purpose for the plan of redemption and should not be used as an example for how we are to respond to false accusations. Was Paul wrong to appeal to Ceasar? Is it wrong to to seek justice? It's one thing to accept one's own fate, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't use legal means if they are available.


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## calgal (Mar 3, 2015)

So basically he has served 8 years of a 10 year sentence and then decided to mail letters contesting an IRS lien on his property from prison. Now he has a new charge?


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## VictorBravo (Mar 3, 2015)

If one is high profile and on the IRS radar, he needs to be very careful.

Mail Fraud charges are a wonderful catch-all tool for IRS enforcement. If you send a false tax return in the mail, it can be charged as mail fraud. If you send a false claim in the mail, or a false statement regarding your property in the mail, same thing.

18 USC section 1341 is broad. If you use the mail for any of the below, you are open to prosecution: 

"having devised or intending to devise any scheme or artifice to defraud, or for obtaining money or property by means of false or fraudulent pretenses, representations, or promises, or to sell, dispose of, loan, exchange, alter, give away, distribute, supply, or furnish or procure for unlawful use any counterfeit or spurious coin, obligation, security, or other article, or anything represented to be or intimated or held out to be such counterfeit or spurious article...."

As Edward said, once in a hole, best to stop digging.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Mar 3, 2015)

VictorBravo said:


> If one is high profile and on the IRS radar, he needs to be very careful.
> 
> Mail Fraud charges are a wonderful catch-all tool for IRS enforcement. If you send a false tax return in the mail, it can be charged as mail fraud. If you send a false claim in the mail, or a false statement regarding your property in the mail, same thing.
> 
> ...


Reminds me of Tom Cruise's character in _The Firm _wherein, at the prompting of a small time attorney, he recalled from his law school days that the mere mailing of a law firm's unwarranted billings came under the jurisdiction noted above.


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## Edward (Mar 3, 2015)

calgal said:


> then decided to mail letters contesting an IRS lien on his property from prison. Now he has a new charge?



One report I saw said he was filing lis pendens in the real estate records on properties that the feds had seized. I don't have much sympathy for folks that pull that stunt. Cleaning up the public real estate records so you can get marketable title is expensive and time consuming. You have the costs of maintaining the property while you are cleaning up the legal issues.


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## Miss Marple (Mar 4, 2015)

ON the subject of resisting groundless accusations in court, I think we need to "fight" wrong persecution and convictions, even if we don't care about ourselves, but to protect others from similar mistreatment.


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## Edward (Mar 4, 2015)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Meanwhile Al Sharpton owes millions in back taxes and remains free



There's a mighty big difference between not paying your taxes and committing tax fraud.


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## calgal (Mar 4, 2015)

Miss Marple said:


> ON the subject of resisting groundless accusations in court, I think we need to "fight" wrong persecution and convictions, even if we don't care about ourselves, but to protect others from similar mistreatment.



2006: "Hovind, who often calls himself "Dr. Dino," has been sparring with the IRS for at least 17 years on his claims that he is employed by God, receives no income, has no expenses and owns no property." And this is how 58 counts of tax fraud are born.


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## Edward (Mar 5, 2015)

calgal said:


> and owns no property


 The position seems a bit inconsistent with filing lis pendens on the real estate.


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## Bill The Baptist (Mar 5, 2015)

calgal said:


> Miss Marple said:
> 
> 
> > ON the subject of resisting groundless accusations in court, I think we need to "fight" wrong persecution and convictions, even if we don't care about ourselves, but to protect others from similar mistreatment.
> ...



If I recall, the contention centered around Hovind's claim that his ministry was a "church" and thus automatically tax exempt. The IRS obviously disagreed and asserted that his ministry was not a "church" and thus responsible to pay taxes.


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## Edward (Mar 5, 2015)

Bill The Baptist said:


> If I recall, the contention centered around Hovind's claim that his ministry was a "church" and thus automatically tax exempt. The IRS obviously disagreed and asserted that his ministry was not a "church" and thus responsible to pay taxes.



Calling workers at a theme park 'missionaries' and not withholding taxes is going to folks in trouble with the IRS. Similar, but a bit more egregious, than those folks at Indianapolis Baptist Temple.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 5, 2015)

Wasn't he at one time connected with a Patriot Bible College? If that name alone doesn't get you on an IRS watch list, nothing will.


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## Edward (Mar 5, 2015)

ReformedReidian said:


> Wasn't he at one time connected with a Patriot Bible College?



Per Wikipedia, it is where he 'acquired' (my choice of word) his degree. Patriot Bible University - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I didn't realize his credentials were that weak. Thanks for highlighting that.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 5, 2015)

Yeah, I am not sure this is a good man to follow:



> Critics have described Hovind's dissertation as incomplete, of low academic quality, poorly written, poor in spelling, and of ungrammatical style.[39] The lack of quality was ascribed, in part, to the fact that "the pages are not numbered; there is no title; of sixteen or so chapters in the index only the first four are finished; misspellings are rampant ("Immerged" for "emerged", "epic" for "epoch", and "tentable" for "testable" are three examples); and the single illustration was apparently cut out of a science book with scissors and fastened to the thesis with glue or tape."[39] Hovind's dissertation was approved by one person, Wayne Knight,[39] who was and remains president of Patriot.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 5, 2015)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Yeah, I am not sure this is a good man to follow:
> 
> 
> 
> > Critics have described Hovind's dissertation as incomplete, of low academic quality, poorly written, poor in spelling, and of ungrammatical style.[39] The lack of quality was ascribed, in part, to the fact that "the pages are not numbered; there is no title; of sixteen or so chapters in the index only the first four are finished; misspellings are rampant ("Immerged" for "emerged", "epic" for "epoch", and "tentable" for "testable" are three examples); and the single illustration was apparently cut out of a science book with scissors and fastened to the thesis with glue or tape."[39] Hovind's dissertation was approved by one person, Wayne Knight,[39] who was and remains president of Patriot.



Shucks, I even put page numbers on my book reviews in my Google Cloud


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 5, 2015)

With that; let's move on.


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