# Booz & Jeremy



## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

My five year old wants to know...
Why is Jeremiah called "the prophet Jeremy" in the Authorized Version (and Boaz is called Booz etc.)?
Her exact words were, "Who is the prophet Jeremy? I thought Jeremiah said that." And, "Boaz is the father of Obed not Booz."

Note: We use the AV at our church and were trying too switch to the AV at home... It is not going smoothly.


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## sevenzedek (Jan 4, 2013)

"Boaz" is "Βοόζ" in the Greek and is transliterated "Boóz".

"Jeremiah" is "Ἱερεμίας" in the Greek and is pronounced "Hieremías". However, it is likely that Jeremy is transliterated from the Hebrew spelling "Yirm-yah".

"Noah" is another example. In the AV it is spelled Noe. The Greek spelling "Νῶε" is pronounced "Nṓe" and is transliterated as "Noe".

The simple answer is that the AV translators did a good job sticking to the original languages.


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

sevenzedek said:


> "Boaz" is "Βοόζ" in the Greek and is transliterated "Boóz".
> 
> "Jeremiah" is "Ἱερεμίας" in the Greek and is pronounced "Hieremías". However, it is likely that Jeremy is transliterated from the Hebrew spelling "Yirm-yah".
> 
> ...



Thanks. It makes a little more sense now but it doesn't make the transition any easier.


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## Jake (Jan 4, 2013)

I find the plethora of names referring to one person confusing as well. How can it be helpful to have transliterations/translations reflecting the same name in different languages, instead of desiring to translate all the names referring to one person the same? Βοόζ is a translation of the same word for Boaz in Hebrew into Greek, and when reading in English, why not have the same name for both?


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## sevenzedek (Jan 4, 2013)

Jake said:


> I find the plethora of names referring to one person confusing as well. How can it be helpful to have transliterations/translations reflecting the same name in different languages, instead of desiring to translate all the names referring to one person the same? Βοόζ is a translation of the same word for Boaz in Hebrew into Greek, and when reading in English, why not have the same name for both?



It is unquestionable that God's very word through Matthew in Matthew 1 is Booz in the Greek. Would it have been inappropriate for the first century church to make such a critique of Matthew's narrative? By speaking against Matthew we speak against God himself. Evidently, God found it helpful enough for the original recipients to say the words the way he said them. As the issue can be seen in this light, we should AT THE VERY LEAST give pause at the issue. This "pause" is evidenced in the manner in which the translators transliterated the names—they trembled at God's holy word. This should cause us to respect their efforts.

I am not saying that there are no other ways to say the same thing in other languages. I am merely putting my finger on the issue of "helpfulness" you raised. Was God unhelpful? No. It is not ALTOGETHER unhelpful for God in his providence to have Matthew write in the manner in which he did.

Familiarity with the biblical genealogies overcomes this confusion quite easily.


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

Familiarity with the genealogies is what raised the question too begin with. My 5 year old knows that Ruth & Boaz were the parents of Obed. And, she has the prophets of the Older Testament memorized too, so Jeremy through her for a loop. Your responses have been helpful but the transliteration themselves, not so much!


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

The early church had the Older Testament on Greek as well, did they not? So, Booz would have been Booz in both the Older and New Testament. Would he not? Isn't the Greek Septuagint the Older Testament in Greek rather than Hebrew?


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

I appreciate the faithfulness of the translators to the original text. And, I do not have any qualms whatsoever using the AV especially in corporate worship but it is not proving to be as smooth a transition in family worship as planned.


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

sevenzedek said:


> "Boaz" is "Βοόζ" in the Greek and is transliterated "Boóz".
> 
> "Jeremiah" is "Ἱερεμίας" in the Greek and is pronounced "Hieremías". However, it is likely that Jeremy is transliterated from the Hebrew spelling "Yirm-yah".
> 
> ...


 Thanks again.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jan 4, 2013)

Hello Jessica,

You will continue to run into this in the NT: Elijah is Elias (Matt 11:14; 16:14; Lk 1:17; Jn 1:21; Rom 11:2; Jas 5:17, etc); Jeremiah is also Jeremias (Matt 16:14); Elisha is also Eliseus (Lk 4:27). And there are likely more, though they don't come to mind at the moment.

Your problem is making sense of this to your 5-year-old. Perhaps the best way is to talk about how names are said differently in different languages. My birth certificate name is Stephen; my grandfather's in Vienna was Stephan in the German; when I was in Greek Cyprus it was pronounced Stephanos (the Greek for crown); in France my name is Etienne, and in Spanish it is Estevan or Esteban. Some Spanish-speaking people will call me Esteve even when they speak English. Perhaps your daughter's name will be different in other languages. In the Jewish New Testament Jesus is Yeshua, and the names of others therein are given their Hebrew form and pronunciation.

If you'd had a heads-up on this you probably would've prepared her (and yourself) to deal with it. Now it's just a little more difficult. I love the precision accuracy of the AV. The simplest answer is as others have said above: for instance, Noah in the Hebrew is Noach (pronounced Noakh – ending as in the name Bach); in the Greek it is pronounced No'-eh; in English it is Noah. I believe Boaz in the Hebrew has the emphasis on the second syllable, as Bo-AZ. All of this to say, if you told her that Bible names may differ a little when translated from Hebrew or from Greek and into English, and after a while she will get used to slightly different names referring to the same people. I think she will get it, as she sounds like a smart girl! Children not using the AV will not have the benefit of being exposed to these nuances of languages and pronunciations.


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

I appreciate the replies. We are using the AV in family worship now as well and tonight went much smoother she was thankful for explaining that the men who were translating God's Word were being extra careful to be faithful to the original language that God gave it to us in. It just wasn't fitting into her scheme. There wasn't a category for her to comprehend it but she made one up tonight that was much more clever than I expected from a five year old...
She said, "Mom, it is kind of like Peter! He was called Simon, Peter and Cephas! That is three different names for the same guy. Maybe if you have any more boys, we can name one Jeremiah and call him Jeremy."
I think we are over the name variations!


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jan 4, 2013)

She _is_ a smart girl!


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## irresistible_grace (Jan 4, 2013)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> She _is_ a smart girl!



She is my Cherished Example! When she was born we prayed the Lord would equip us to train her up in His Ways and that He would use her to teach us more about Himself... 
Our prayers are being answered with compound interest! 
She is very smart. It is a blessing to be her mother.


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## Jake (Jan 4, 2013)

sevenzedek said:


> Jake said:
> 
> 
> > I find the plethora of names referring to one person confusing as well. How can it be helpful to have transliterations/translations reflecting the same name in different languages, instead of desiring to translate all the names referring to one person the same? Βοόζ is a translation of the same word for Boaz in Hebrew into Greek, and when reading in English, why not have the same name for both?
> ...



I must confess that part of this is simply because I grew up on newer translations (RSV/ESV since childhood), but it does seem strange to me this disconnect. I mean no disrepect to the word of God, but I do not understand the problem that you are putting forth.

I am not critiquing Matthew's narrative as inspired by God at all. As you pointed out, what is translated "Boaz" from Hebrew is rendered "Booz" from Greek. The term they used in Greek, including in the LXX, did not match up exactly. However, for a Greek reader, they would have seen the same Greek for "Booz" in the LXX and Matthew. I know the LXX is not inspired, but my point is that this is simply as issue of translation. "Booz" and "Boaz" both refer to the same word in two languages, but they are equivalent in English, so I would prefer consistency. 

Many translations before and after in a variety of languages have chosen to be consistent with names from Greek and Hebrew into the language they are translating and I do not see this translation choice as disrespectful to the inspiration of God's Word at all. 

I was looking around a bit with an interlinear, which is dangerous as I do not know Greek... I fail to understand how "Ἰερεμίου" (which it transliterates as "Ieremiou") in Matthew 2:17 is closer to "Jeremy" and "Ἰερεμίαν" (which it translates as "Ieremian") in Matthew 16:14 is closer to "Jeremias." Terms like Jeremias and Elias sound more Latin than anything to me.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 9, 2013)

Point here...

If it's so important to translate as Jeremy/Jeremias, Elias, and Esaias in the NT, why not Eliyahu (Elijah), Yeshayahu (Isaiah), Yechetzqel (Ezekiel) and Moshe (Moses) in the OT? After all, these are more faithful than their English renderings. Indeed, most English renderings of Hebrew names are often Grecianized/Latinized. (Of course I don't have to tell you that Greek and Hebrew have no "J" and it should be Ieremias, for instance.)

I don't really have a problem with the KJV (and the Geneva, for that matter) doing it this way, but I don't see where such gives some kind of "extra insight" into the Greek when we don't do Hebrew as "literally".


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## sevenzedek (Jan 9, 2013)

I apologize. I was being overly dogmatic and inconsistent. I need to learn to think more before I speak.


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