# Racism In The PCA and Reformed Seminaries



## JS116

While searching the internet,I stumbled upon this article by the author Anthony Bradley,graduate of Westminster Theological Seminary and Covenant Theological Seminary(also teacher).Some of the stuff in the article really has me concerned and is shocking if the findings are true.I think this is of much importance that needs to be discussed.

I dont know much about American Presbyterianism and the PCA along with it's church splits,but it alarmed me to find out these were not PCUSA churches adhering to this,but PCA churches who were segregationist and still refuse to deal with the problem rightly.

This article caused such an importance of discussion people like, Ligon Duncan,R Scott Clark, professors and students of Covenant Theological Seminary and many more commented on it.

In order to see the comments here is the link...

bradley.chattablogs.com/archives/2010/07/why-didnt-they.html


Here is the article without viewing the link...

__________________________________________________________________________
Why didn't they tell us?: the racist & pro-segregation roots of the formation of RTS, the PCA, and the role of First Prez in Jackson, Miss in all of it


Peter Slade's book Open Friendship in a Closed Society: Mission Mississippi and A Theology of Friendship (Oxford University Press, 2009) reveals difficult information about the racist and pro-segregationist ethos surrounding the formation of the Reformed Theological Seminary, the Presbyterian Church in America, and the role of First Presbyterian Church in Jackson, MS., in addition to the theological concerns of that era.

If you're black in the PCA this book will be very, very hard to read. Sorry folks, the racial history of the denomination is more than just a "blind spot." According to Slade, there was more going on.

I am amazed that people outside of the PCA know more about the denomination's history than it's own members it seems.

After reading this history I have been struggling to answer why: (1) no one talks about these facts in general and (2) why were several of us blacks were not told about this in the early 1990s when many of us came into to the PCA? Why didn't anyone tell us the following as described in Slade's book 15-20 years ago:

(1) First Presbyterian Church in Jackson's role in supporting segregation in Mississippi.
(2) The "Spirituality of the Church" theology
(3) Rev. James Henry Thornwell's call to "reform" not abolish slavery and the theology that led him to that position.
(4) On December 4, 1861, the representatives of 47 Southern presbyteries formed an Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in the Confederate States of America (PCCSA).
(5) The racial views of Robert L. Dabney and Benjamin Palmer
(6) The role of W. Calvin Wells, an elder at First Presbyterian Church, in fighting for racial segregation.
(7) The failed attempt to launch the "Afro-American Presbyterian Church"
(8) What led to the planting of Central (1898), Power Memorial (1924), Fondren (1930) outside of Jackson.
(9) The paternalism that Mississippi Presbyterians had toward blacks in the formation of institutions and programs designed to help blacks.
(10) The role of Westminster Seminary's J. Gresham Machen and Cornelius Van Til in the segregationist churches.
(11) The 1954 statement issued at First Presbyterian, Jackson rejecting the PCUS's support of the conclusion of Brown vs. Board.
(12) Dr. Guy T. Gillisepie's (former president at Belhaven College) argument on favor of segregation.
(13) How desegregation led to the launching of Christian schools in Jackson, MS.
(14) That Mississippi Presbyterians equated desegregation with being a liberal in the 1960s.
(15) The relationship between First Presbyterian Church and Westminster Seminary in the early 1960s.
(16) The non-theological reasons RTS was started in 1964 (consider the timing and national movements related to race) and the meeting at Briarwood Presbyterian Church in Alabama, that formed a denomination called, the "National Presbyterian Church in America" resulting from it.
(17) Morton Smith's book How is the Gold Become Dim!
(18) The letters that went around at First Presbyterian, Jackson condemning any involvement in racial reconciliation progress that was being made among some at the church on the early 1990s.
(19) and more.....

For those us African Americans who came into the PCA in early 1990s (I came in 1994) and have been committed ever since (we're not going anywhere), I don't understand why Peter Slade, a United Methodist, has been courageous enough to bring these things to light. Why is the racial history never told as a part of the PCA's history? Why did I have to find this out after-the-fact? Why am I learning these things from a United Methodist? Why haven't I been told these details by Presbyterians?

For at least 6 YEARS I have been repeatedly, and regularly called "nigger," "Anthony Bradley, the Negro Prince of the PCA," "The Token Negro and Filthy Pervert and a Stain on the Bedsheets of Life," "Anthony Bradley, the Affirmative Action Ph.D," and other racial slurs all over the internet since some white Reformed people discovered me; and it has not stopped. I had no idea what I was getting myself into in the early 1990's and nobody told me what to expect. I have been completely caught of guard and I'm lucky to get a shoulder shrug from people who knew this would happen. Why didn't anyone tell us?

One the hand I get asked, "why do you stay in the PCA?" and on the other hand I get asked "do you love the PCA?" I have remained in theological circles where I'm regularly called racial slurs, and haven't left, and people ask me if I am "committed?" To some I am an idiot and to others a "loose canon" who does not express enough love for a denomination. Have you ever been called, "the Negro Prince of the PCA?" Don't people understand that if I leave the racists win. The racists should repent or leave. Why should the minorities leave?

Why didn't they tell us? I'm looking for anyone to help us make sense of the silence on this issue.

Why are people outside of the PCA more familiar with this part of the PCA's story than those inside the PCA?

It's difficult to encourage African Americans to embrace the denomination that won't disclose a major part of its history some would argue.

I am Reformed and Presbyterian for reasons that have nothing to do with the South, segregation, the Spirituality of the Church, or the Confederacy. Is that ok? Does that remain in the PCA? Should it?
__________________________________________________________________________


----------



## earl40

I go "back" and "forth" if the blatantly racist is a Christian. I go "back" to thinking they are not when I hear of events you go through. I go "forth" when I know God in His providence places people in very different times than we are in now.

So far as the silence on the matter remember we all do not bring up past (or current) sin in the real fear that they may not think we are Christians. If I told you some of my thoughts I know you would go "back and forth" on if I had faith.

I believe if I was around when someone calls you nigger, I would not be judged a Christian after I was done with them because I doubt I would deal with them in love of Jesus.


----------



## jogri17

I am not African American so I feel a bit odd talking about this, but there is a sizable portion of racists within Reformed Churches. A few years ago I dated a French girl from Algerian descent and some people (Not leaders thanks be to God) quoted Thornwall and Dabney as authorities to try to say I shouldn't be. On the other hand, I know a young man who was born into a racist family and realized it was wrong, but has a strong foot in the mouth problem and is trying hard to correct past attitudes. Racism though if a human problem not one exclusively in the PCA and OPC. Besides, I applaud the PCA for working hard to overcome that past. That being said, there is much racial ignorance in Reformed circles and often racial insensitivity is mistaken for racism. That is an important distinction In my humble opinion.


----------



## CharlieJ

Shawn, go to your local library and get (inter-library loan if you have to) Slade's book. It's fantastic. It's not just about racism, but about how people who lived in a highly racist culture nevertheless took steps to overcome their own prejudices. I wrote a review here:Review – Open Friendship in a Closed Society by Peter Slade « Sacra Pagina

As far as racism in the PCA goes, it's going to correlate roughly to geography, and to some degree age. Mississippi is probably the most racist state in the US, so the Jackson crowd carries some baggage. It's going to be worse in the South in general, since many southerners, frustrated about losing the war, turned to resenting minorities. However, much of the PCA is now made up of young converts. These people, who have no historic connection with the PCA, probably don't have a clue about the racism. They didn't bring it with them. 

Now, concerning the history of the PCA, I have a few thoughts. First, as far as I know, not many churches actually spend much time talking about the denomination's history at all. But, if they do, I think they ought to talk about this. There's nothing more healthy for a church than to examine its failures. How better to model our faith in justification by faith alone? As far as the spirituality of the church goes, it's an ongoing discussion. Certainly it's had some deleterious effects and at times was used to justify not dealing with the ethical dimensions of social issues. Is it all wrong? Not sure.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian

It is worth noting that white supremacist groups (including the post-1920 KKK) have traditionally found the majority of their membership in the upper Midwest, the Great Lakes States, and California. Hollywood has done a good job conditioning us to believe that racism only existed (and exists) south of the Mason-Dixon when history tells us different.

It is Grade-A balony to say Mississippi is the "most racist state in the union". I can say with some experience that I saw more outward acts of Racism living in Pittsburgh, PA for 6 years than I did growing up in West Virginia for 18. Same thing during my time in the Marines. The most racist guys in my shop were from NYC, Delaware, and Kansas.


----------



## seajayrice

CharlieJ said:


> Shawn, go to your local library and get (inter-library loan if you have to) Slade's book. It's fantastic. It's not just about racism, but about how people who lived in a highly racist culture nevertheless took steps to overcome their own prejudices. I wrote a review here:Review – Open Friendship in a Closed Society by Peter Slade « Sacra Pagina
> 
> As far as racism in the PCA goes, *it's going to correlate roughly to geography, and to some degree age*. Mississippi is probably the most racist state in the US, so the Jackson crowd carries some baggage. It's going to be worse in the South in general, since many southerners, frustrated about losing the war, turned to resenting minorities. However, much of the PCA is now made up of young converts. These people, who have no historic connection with the PCA, probably don't have a clue about the racism. They didn't bring it with them.
> 
> Now, concerning the history of the PCA, I have a few thoughts. First, as far as I know, not many churches actually spend much time talking about the denomination's history at all. But, if they do, I think they ought to talk about this. There's nothing more healthy for a church than to examine its failures. How better to model our faith in justification by faith alone? As far as the spirituality of the church goes, it's an ongoing discussion. Certainly it's had some deleterious effects and at times was used to justify not dealing with the ethical dimensions of social issues. Is it all wrong? Not sure.




Some of the more violent cases of racism and public opposition to integration took place in the north. 

I came across this article that deals with contemporary issues touching on church and race. Being Black and Reformed: An Interview with Anthony Carter by Anthony Carter | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org


----------



## Southern Presbyterian

*MODERATION*

Let us try to focus on positive alternatives and fact based citations as regards the original post and NOT point fingers or dredge up the past. In other words, this is NOT going to be allowed to become a "this group is worse/better than that group" thread.


----------



## lynnie

It is endemic to the fallen human heart. I was in a PCA church that had Chinese, Vietnamese, Japanese, Korean, and Phillipine. Let me stress that the folks in the church were great. But their parents, many of them in the home country and many of them Christian, had serious problems with racial superiority, such that I heard that the biggest single issue in the Princeton student fellowship was the subject of orientals dating different oriental races and having to deal with their parents back home who were aghast- the other ethnic goups were always inferior. Korean Presbyterians were not necessarily free of Korean vs Chinese-Japanese, any more than whites are free of white vs black. So I would not really call it a black-white thing, as it can be white-white.


----------



## Edward

It is a shame that he was so ignorant of history when he went to seminary. Anyone with a calendar should have been able to figure out how the PCUSA's PCUS component originated. 

As far as saying that First Pres Jackson was racist 15 or 20 years ago, how far can I go in questioning the accuracy of that without getting moderated? 

The gentleman being quoted in the original post probably should go to the UCC. He should find all the tolerance he wants there.


----------



## Wayne

Shawn: 

There are a number of problems with the text that you've quoted (in other words, not your fault but rather the fault or sad result of the way those sentences fall together).

1. Perhaps first on the list is that those people who were calling Dr. Bradley names had nothing to do with the PCA. They were a small group of people trying to push a view called Kinism and they had a web site called Little Geneva. As best I could determine when I tried to dig into who these people were, one of them was a Baptist and one of them was a member of some micro-Presbyterian group. I'm referencing here Dr. Bradley's paragraph that begins "For at least 6 years..." The implication of that paragraph, by its context, is that these name-callers were members of the PCA. So far as I could discover, they definitely were NOT.
2. As to the PCA specifically:

a. When the PCA was being formed, there was a man who came forward ready to donate a large sum, perhaps $1M, provided the new denomination would be "for white folks only". That man was turned away. I have Dr. Wilson Benton and Dr. Jim Baird separately as authorities for that account.

b. While some might cynically deride it as tokenism, there was an African-American ruling elder who was involved in the process of forming the PCA. (I'm sorry but I don't remember his name here this morning)

c. The name originally chosen for the PCA was The National Presbyterian Church. The very fact that they were intent on being a national and not a sectional church in that era of the civil rights movement is a good indication that there was no intent to be racist or to countenance racism.

d. Just within a few years of forming, the PCA was seriously engaged in merger talks with the OPC and the Reformed Presbyterian Church, Evangelical Synod. The latter group had a strong abolitionist heritage. See stories of Alexander McLeod's stand against slavery -- PCA Historical Center: E-Books [chapter 4 esp.] and his treatise Negro Slavery Unjustifiable [http://www.pcahistory.org/findingaids/rpcgs/McLeod-Slavery.pdf]. I believe Randy Nabors had already begun the New City Fellowship work in Chattanooga prior to 1982, so that RPCES church was also part of the picture, just for one example, during talks about receiving the RPCES into the PCA. See a few other statements against racism that figured into those times and that merger, here: PCA Historical Center: Resources - A Topical Guide to the Collections and Holdings of the Center [scroll down to "Racial Relations".

e. Of the men founding the PCA, it was said of G. Aiken Taylor that there wasn't a color conscious bone in his body. The guy who said that (never came into the PCA, by the way) didn't mean it as a compliment, which only proves the point. Dr. Taylor was particularly key in the formation of the PCA. Another was Bill Hill, founder of Presbyterian Evangelistic Fellowship. PEF was one of the four groups that was so instrumental in the formation of the PCA, and it ministered widely among African-American churches and had many blacks on its staff. See the correspondence in the Historical Center between Bill Hill and Don Dunkerley.

f. One particular bone to pick with Slade's book is where he says that when the PCA organized, they met for their first General Assembly on December 4th, 1973, in anniversary of the forming of the Presbyterian Church, U.S. (aka, Southern Presbyterian). By doing so, Slade says the PCA was celebrating its Confederate history, looking back to that date on Dec. 4, 1861. Slade is completely wrong and nothing of the sort was going on. The conservatives who formed the PCA were intent on establishing themselves as the faithful continuing remnant, leaving an apostate church (though they never officially stated that the PCUS was apostate). Their only reason for first meeting on 12/4 was to bolster that view of the new church as the _continuing remnant_. In fact, prior to selecting an official name for the church, they were first known as the Continuing Presbyterian Church.

g. Were there racists in the PCA at its formation? Certainly. What would you expect of a denomination formed in the south in the early 1970s? Are there racists in the PCA today? Undoubtedly. But at least we admit the problem and are trying to deal with it. There are racists throughout our culture, including in the liberal denominations. But there they turn a blind eye to the problem. Did you know the PCA is also the only Presbyterian denomination in the United States where charges have successfully been brought against a member of a congregation specifically for racism. Racism is not just a "white" problem. At it's root it is the sinful attitude that I'm better than someone else, for whatever reason concocted. At its root, racism is ultimately a form of self-deification. And it is a sin that finds expression all over the world.

h. And I have to admit that I do chafe at Dr. Bradley's statement that "no one ever told him." Why does someone have to tell him? Why didn't he do his own digging and find out for himself? I know for one that he never came downstairs to the PCA Historical Center in the years that he was employed by Covenant Seminary. I would have been glad to help with his questions.


----------



## py3ak

When most groups look at their own history, it seems it's for anniversary celebrations, etc., so a critical look is not really the emphasis. Outside historians will typically be the ones to dredge up good and bad, as long as they aren't just going on the warpath, because they are interested in the movement as a whole rather than in celebrating or inspiring. That part just goes with the territory; we have an instinct to cover up the faults of our own movement, and to the extent that that is acting the part of Shem and Japheth to our drunken Noahs, it is probably commendable; when it becomes P.R., of course, not so much.
Hopefully the direction of the Reformed churches, on this matter at least, is to stand with B.B. Warfield rather than with R.L. Dabney. I really struggle to read Dabney sometimes, even though you can't help but acknowledge his brilliance and penetration on many points, as well as genuine literary talent, because his racism is so nauseating: even when I'm reading him on another topic, I remember things he's said and just don't want to continue. But as with any sin, racism is only part of a person.


----------



## Rufus

There are no more racists in the PCA than there are in any other denomination. And a few people on the internet can seem like a sizable majority but aren't, perhaps if their church elders knew about it than it would be a much different scenario. 

This is a Theonomist (I'm not a Theonomist) group on facebook against Kinism (idea that we must remain within our own kin)
Christianity against Kinism | Facebook



> It is Grade-A balony to say Mississippi is the "most racist state in the union". I can say with some experience that I saw more outward acts of Racism living in Pittsburgh, PA for 6 years than I did growing up in West Virginia for 18. Same thing during my time in the Marines. The most racist guys in my shop were from NYC, Delaware, and Kansas



Yup. There's a reported Ku Klux Klan group in a town near where I live, and most of my friends use (excuse my usage of it if it offends anybody) nigger, negro, and nigga as greeting terms for their white friends along with many jokes about black stereotypes.


----------



## Romans922

The time of the past needs to be understood compared to times now. I have never noticed in my time in Jackson nor FPC Jackson of any racism happening. There were in fact those who were black that were members of this congregation. On many occasions they had joint services with Redeemer Church which is probably 25% black. 

Wayne mentioned Jim Baird above seemingly defending anti-racism. Baird was the former pastor of FPC Jackson. 

So make sure you have all your facts straight before making accusations. I also wouldn't necessarily call MS the most racist. How does anyone have any way of knowing that or gauging that? In fact, the further north you go where there are less black people, you might actually find that they are racist as well (a different type of racism). [Sean just confirmed that above, he is in New Hampshire and there is blatant racism].


Also, I can say from RTS-Jackson (where I attended), I saw no racism. We had a good number of black and other races represented; and everyone got along great.


----------



## Philip

Several things here:

I recently posted on fb about some of the ambiguities that I live with almost daily as a southerner---things with regard to history and race that I'm not sure how to deal with or confront. 

However, my experiences with the PCA and race have been almost wholly positive, given the circles I've been in. I have a number of friends involved with New City Fellowship; I am acquainted with Steve Smallman's efforts in Baltimore (and I'm blanking on what his church is called at the moment); I've known dozens of reformed families who have adopted children of other races. It's one of those things where I hear and read about racism in the PCA, but I haven't seen it, exactly. Maybe I'm anomalous in that way, but that's my experience.

I realize, of course, that the PCA and southern Presbyterianism in general has a very checkered history in this regard. But I think those issues are being addressed and dealt with.


----------



## Wayne

Romans922 said:


> Wayne mentioned Jim Baird above seemingly defending anti-racism. Baird was the former pastor of FPC Jackson.



Just to clarify, Dr. Baird clearly and unequivocally took stands against racism. In fact he figures prominently in the above mentioned book by Slade, as having helped to establish a group focused on racial reconciliation.


----------



## Romans922

Wayne said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Wayne mentioned Jim Baird above seemingly defending anti-racism. Baird was the former pastor of FPC Jackson.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Just to clarify, Dr. Baird clearly and unequivocally took stands against racism. In fact he figures prominently in the above mentioned book by Slade, as having helped to establish a group focused on racial reconciliation.
Click to expand...


There you go!


----------



## JS116

Thank you all for your input and taking the time to respond.

I haven't gotten the chance to sit down and read alot of what was posted but I will asap.From what I read I think my first reaction(shocked)to the accusations where new to me.Like I said I never heard anybody teach me about American Presbyterianism,but I am willing to learn.Just for clarification for anyone who likes to post on this,my intentions were not to start a thread that says "this side did this" or anything of that nature,I started this thread to be rightly informed of the history of the PCUS and it's formation.I know the GA's in the PCA have dealt with these cases and I do applaud them,I am not opposed to the PCA or any other reformed denomination that has had faults in the past and I am well pleased with the results I am seeing from the GA actions on the matters.

But sadly racism is still a problem in the churches,maybe not as big as it was before,but it still lives on silently in evangelical churches today.I have read the PCA's actions on it and also the OPC's actions on it and I think they have the right starting point.I am still looking into the subject and I am more than open to any resources to help in my research.

Also..I would like to know if anybody has any information on J Gresham Machen and Van Til's accounts on segregation? Or were those merely inaccurate accusations of them?I know that Machen looked up to BB Warfield who was agreed with abolitionist's and despised racism.


----------



## Wayne

Shawn:

I do hope you didn't take any of the above responses as directed at you. They weren't, I don't think. And yes, there is still a lot of work to do.


----------



## JS116

Wayne said:


> Shawn:
> 
> I do hope you didn't take any of the above responses as directed at you. They weren't, I don't think. And yes, there is still a lot of work to do.



No not at all! All I have seen so far is gracious responses and I appreciate that.My last post(at least the beginning) is the referring to the article I quoted.


----------



## JM

My wife is black she noticed it when we were visiting churches, mostly Dutch Reformed, but yah...it's there. It was major factor with us staying in the church we are at. On a positive note...most modern Bible teachers, Reformed or otherwise, have spoken against racism. It was very discouraging but John Pipe's site had material that picked us back up and we have moved on since. 

76 results for racism - Desiring God


----------



## rbcbob

Shawn,

The first black Christian to come along side and educate me on the state of the traditional black churches in which he grew up recommended that I read the book THE BLACK CHURCH IN THE U.S., Its Origins, Growth, Contribution, and Outlook by William L. Banks.

As a complete outsider I found this little book helpful

The Lord bless you brother


----------



## Weston Stoler

I was very sad to find that their are very little to no Black people in my church. However I find less to no racial jokes and slurs in my PCA church then in my old IFB church were I heard scores of them every day. With someone who had mostly black friends in high school I couldn't really take them to church knowing they would be judged for walking in with brown skin.


----------



## Andres

Rufus said:


> most of my friends use (excuse my usage of it if it offends anybody) nigger, negro, and nigga as greeting terms for their white friends along with many jokes about black stereotypes.



And why do you call these people "friends"?

---------- Post added at 05:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:51 PM ----------




Romans922 said:


> I have never noticed in my time in Jackson nor FPC Jackson of any racism happening. There were in fact those who were black that were members of this congregation. On many occasions they had joint services with Redeemer Church which is probably 25% black.



Brother, I will certainly not doubt what you say above. If that is true for you, then praise God that you were not privy to any racism during your time in MS. However, I think it should be noted that this has not always been the case. I personally know of a man who pastored a PCA church in MS approx 10 years ago. This man left that PCA church and took a call at an OPC in Texas because as he directly told me he couldn't stand the blatant racism he witnessed in the church during his time in Mississippi. The worst thing about it is that this pastor told me all his efforts to reform these racist ways of thinking completely fell on deaf ears. The people simply refused to acknowledge or repent of any racism. This minister also shared some stories of things he witnessed at FPC Jackson that he felt were very racist and he was not at all comfortable with. And the minister is white by the way. Just thought the stories needed some balance. I'm not trying to impugn FPC Jackson in any way, but the truth is the truth.


----------



## Rufus

Andres said:


> And why do you call these people "friends"?



Actually thank you for pointing that out to me, and I don't hang out with those people as much as I used to (mainly because of sexual nature of the conversation (none of them are Christians), by the way this a group of people who all hang out with each other). But they've always been my "friends".


----------



## Edward

Andres said:


> This minister also shared some stories of things he witnessed at FPC Jackson that he felt were very racist and he was not at all comfortable with.



Since we are dealing with subjective feelings on his part, and we don't have a basis to evaluate, perhaps you could invite him to come share with us.


----------



## Wayne

Thank you, Edward. As James reminded us earlier, heresay and anonymous charges should not be allowed in such discussions.
Evidence should always be identifiable and capable of examination and verification.


----------



## Andres

Edward said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> This minister also shared some stories of things he witnessed at FPC Jackson that he felt were very racist and he was not at all comfortable with.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Since we are dealing with subjective feelings on his part, and we don't have a basis to evaluate, perhaps you could invite him to come share with us.
Click to expand...


I don't consider the things he told me subjective at all. In fact, that's exactly it. The fact that anyone could witness some of the goings on and ignore it or not see a problem with it is what bothered him most. I will certainly email him and ask him if he cares to type something up to share of his experiences and if he is willing, then I will gladly share with the board.


----------



## Semper Fidelis

PCA is not hiding the history. You just need to go to its historical site to find this is not the case:

Southern Presbyterian Review Project--Author Biography: John L. Girardeau (1825 - 1898)



> In January 1854, he and his wife Penelope Sarah ("Sal") moved from St. John Parish and Wilton Presbyterian Church (January 1849-December 53) to Charleston to assume the work begun by John B. Adger and the session of Second Presbyterian Church. The work was designed to establish a church for and of the slaves. In 1850, citizens of Charleston built a meeting house on Anson Street for the exclusive use of the slaves. After Adger's health failed, Girardeau was handpicked by Adger and Smyth to lead the work forward. The work expanded from thirty-six black members when Girardeau arrived to over 600 at the time of the American Armageddon. He preached to over 1,500 weekly from 1859 through 1861.
> 
> In 1858/59 the Anson Street Mission experienced a marvelous revival and in April 1859 they moved into a new building at the prestigious and prime intersection of Meeting and Calhoun Streets. The black membership was given the privilege of naming their church (which was particularized in 1858) and they chose "Zion." Zion Presbyterian Church became famous for Girardeau's preaching-he was called "the Spurgeon of America"-, but it was also noteworthy for its diaconal ministry in the community, catechetical training of hundreds in the city, sewing clubs for the women, and missionary activity. The outreach and influence of Zion was of such public notoriety that Girardeau and the session were often criticized and sometimes physically threatened. For example, the catechetical training and teaching of hymns and psalms was so effective that some Charlestonians believed Girardeau was teaching the slaves to read for themselves (which was contrary to state law).
> 
> After the War and before Girardeau could return to Charleston, a number of freedmen of Zion Presbyterian Church beckoned Girardeau to return to "the Holy City" and resume his work with them. They desired to have their white pastor whom they knew, loved, and respected, rather than a black missionary from the North. Throughout the post-War and Reconstruction years, he arduously worked amongst both black and white in Charleston. He mightily labored within the Southern Presbyterian Church to see that the freedmen were included in the church and in 1869 he nominated seven freedmen for the office of ruling elder in Zion Presbyterian Church, preached the ordination service, and with the white members of his session laid hands on his black brothers.
> 
> Unfortunately, the pressures of Reconstruction and the Freedmen's Bureau, and the hardened positions of notables like B. M. Palmer and R. L. Dabney brought the church to a pivotal moment. The weight of political and social issues eventuated in "organic separation" of white membership and black membership and the formation of churches along the color line. Girardeau alone dissented against the resolution at the 1874 General Assembly in Columbus, Mississippi, for which he served as Moderator.


----------



## Parker234

Mark Noll's book _The Civil War as a Theological Conflict_ talks a great deal about the theological and racial views of Thornwell and Dabney. I just found this in a book. I don't think these things are hidden so much as a part of history which many just simply have never been interested enough to look into.


----------



## fredtgreco

We need to remember that racism is a part of the Fall, not geography, or even history. There has always been racism, and there always will be. Racism among larger ethic groups, between groups, etc. The reason I say this is not to excuse racism - it is a heinous sin - but rather to remind us that the solution is not to be more "educated," more "tolerant" or more "kind." The solution is the gospel. The Church is the only place on earth that is self-consciously pan-national and pan-racial (Rev. 1:7; 5:9; Gal. 3:28). That is the whole point - that God is the God of *all* people (Acts 17:26). If we do not keep this front and center we can be like Jonah - afraid to bring the grace of God to others.


----------



## Southern Presbyterian

Amen! Pastor Greco.


----------



## Edward

Andres said:


> if he is willing, then I will gladly share with the board.



If he's OPC, there's a fairly good chance that he qualifies for membership here. If I recall some of the previous exchanges, it sounded like he was ill prepared for the cross cultural ministry in which he found himself.


----------



## Andres

Edward said:


> If he's OPC, there's a fairly good chance that he qualifies for membership here. If I recall some of the previous exchanges, it sounded like he was ill prepared for the cross cultural ministry in which he found himself.



He would certainly qualify for membership here, but I don't think he'd be interested. What "previous exchanges" are you referring to? Have I mentioned him before? Do you know who I am speaking of? If so, my apologies but I don't recall.


----------



## JS116

fredtgreco said:


> We need to remember that racism is a part of the Fall, not geography, or even history. There has always been racism, and there always will be. Racism among larger ethic groups, between groups, etc. The reason I say this is not to excuse racism - it is a heinous sin - but rather to remind us that the solution is not to be more "educated," more "tolerant" or more "kind." The solution is the gospel. The Church is the only place on earth that is self-consciously pan-national and pan-racial (Rev. 1:7; 5:9; Gal. 3:28). That is the whole point - that God is the God of *all* people (Acts 17:26). If we do not keep this front and center we can be like Jonah - afraid to bring the grace of God to others.



Agreed and well said Pastor Greco

Like you stated "the solution is the gospel",but what happens when those who get up in the pulpit Sunday mornings and proclaim the power of salvation and don't even trust it enough to live it out?It's not that these people in history and today accused of racism dont know the gospel,they do,but the problem of today is that we undermine the power and cost of it.We think we can say "All is one in Christ" and throw our hands up to say we have it settled.

After reading and dawning on the subject I have come up with this..

The gospel is redemption and reconciliation of all mankind to God offered unfavorably and freely to those who place their trust in the works and person Lord Jesus Christ only,I dont have any hopes(at least on this earth) to see world racism ended,just as I dont have any hopes of every man to stop,lying,stealing,fornicating,murdering or any other sin by the corruption of the fall.My hopes is to see in those who DO profess Christ to be aware of how deep a problem racism has in today's churches and to be aware how it in different ways has affected everyone one of us and the body as a whole.We who embrace the Reformed faith of all people should be the main ones speaking today against it,seeing how we oppose liberalism,modernism and all types of different types of ideologies,but accept the doctrines of grace which proclaims all man is sinful and without God the holy spirit alone working in the regeneration of man and actively sanctifying our lives and renewing our minds on a daily all hope is lost for ALL of us.

it is such an importance to not let it go on it because if we believe all scripture to be inspired 2Tim 3:16,it means Revelation 5:9 too must be true, and without racial reconciliation of ALL God's people we deny the historic orthodox doctrine of the atonement.That's why I think it is much needed to be discussed in churches.


----------



## Edward

Andres said:


> What "previous exchanges" are you referring to? Have I mentioned him before?


Perhaps I'm confusing him with someone else, or perhaps it was someone else that referenced him on an earlier thread about race and religion. Since I've never been particularly successful with the PB search function, it's unlikely that I can come up with the posts that I'm thinking of.

-------

Here's one mention, but I don't seem to have responded:

" I personally know of a pastor (who is white BTW) who left a reformed pastorate in Mississippi approximately 10 years ago because people in the church, including leadership, held discriminatory views against blacks."

Your post #50 on this thread: http://www.puritanboard.com/f40/genetic-differences-racial-differences-sons-ham-68623/index2.html

I'm not sure if this is the reference that I recall.


----------



## Andres

Thanks Edward. I didn't think I was old enough for my memory to be going quite yet! Yes, I was referencing the same minister. As far as whether or not he was ill-prepared for the cross-cultural ministry, I think I'd disagree with you. It's not like he went to do inner-city ministry in the heart of Harlem. He went to pastor a church that was predominantly Caucasion in rural Mississippi. Maybe you're right though. Again, it'd be best to email him and have him give his first hand account rather than me elaborate about his situation.


----------



## Scottish Lass

Anecdotal, I know, but the only place I ever heard congregants use racial slurs (at least one time was in the sanctuary) was in northern MS. On the other hand, they also had the odd quirk of seeming to occasionally use a slur, yet in a positive connotation. Usage in general seemed to be fairly limited to one generation, though.


----------



## Edward

Andres said:


> He went to pastor a church that was predominantly Caucasion in rural Mississippi.



Yes, and he probably didn't even realize that it was a completely different culture.


----------



## Pilgrim

Wayne said:


> And I have to admit that I do chafe at Dr. Bradley's statement that "no one ever told him." Why does someone have to tell him? Why didn't he do his own digging and find out for himself? I know for one that he never came downstairs to the PCA Historical Center in the years that he was employed by Covenant Seminary. I would have been glad to help with his questions.



Bingo!! His article does touch on some issues that younger people today would not tend to think about, although it is by no means a complete (nor balanced) picture of things. I remember reading this when it came out and was flabbergasted, honestly, with the statement that "no one ever told me." Birmingham 1973. Birmingham 1973. Birmingham 1973. Wouldn't that raise some flags with regard to integration, Civil Rights, etc. for an educated African-American man who (if I'm not mistaken) was raised in the South? EDIT: In fairness, the internet was in its infancy in the early 1990's so a lot of this information like the article I link below as well as the PCA Historical Center was not as readily available at the time. But there was a lot of time after that in which these issues could have been investigated, as you note. 

No doubt the kinists who hounded him and perhaps continue to hound him was a very troubling thing, but I think he vastly overstates their influence. And they've been run out of some Presbyterian churches. I know that at least one was run off this board several years ago and if I recall correctly was reported to his elders. Few of them are in mainstream churches, from what I understand. There was the recent case in the Carolinas alluded to in this thread in which what amounts to segregation was repudiated. 

I think that Pastor Bob Vincent's article Tensions in Conservative Presbyterianism gives a more balanced and far more informed account. Knowing Bob fairly well, my guess is that it was written at a time (probably about 15 years ago if not longer as he left the PCA in 1997) in which he was attempting to deal with Steve Wilkins, (who is no longer PCA) The League of the South and related issues. I think that may be what the "Confederate" resistance reference at the end alludes to, among other things. 

Although the PCA's history is complicated with what was going on at the time of its formation, the same kinds of issues can be found among Baptists and pretty much anywhere else where you have people who grew up under Jim Crow or else were raised with that kind of mentality. I've heard of several stories of blacks within the past 10 years coming into Baptist churches only to be directed to a black Baptist church in the area after the service. I think some of this is frustration on Dr. Bradley's part that the current "Reformed Resurgence" among African Americans is much more evident in baptistic circles than it is among Presbyterians, which have remained largely white. There are many other reasons for that besides racism, whether overt or covert. 

I also question Dr. Bradley's characterization of the relative isolation of Korean Presbyterians. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but based on reports from PCA pastors I'm acquainted with, their isolation is at least as much of a result of their preference as it is some kind of plot by whites to permanently relegate them to second-class status.


----------



## Semper Fidelis

Pilgrim said:


> I also question Dr. Bradley's characterization of the relative isolation of Korean Presbyterians. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but based on reports from PCA pastors I'm acquainted with, their isolation is at least as much of a result of their preference as it is some kind of plot by whites to permanently relegate them to second-class status.


Interestingly, during the last GA the subject of whether the Korean Churches should still be a separate Presbytery came up for discussion on the floor. A TE wondered if the arrangement still made sense where the Korean Presbyteries fall under the broader authority of the PCA.

A middle-aged Korean American elder stood up to implore that the relationship remain as it was. There are still many congregations in which the older generation still speaks Korean and the time was not right yet to change the way things were arranged as they were working well. He expressed his great gratitude for the PCA. Thus, while someone bemoans the way he believes the Korean Churches are treated as "outsiders", they feel a warm kinship to us.

On that note, I exhorted today at the Korean Agape Church as I do about once a month. They are a small Korean American Church that meets at the worship location of a sister PCA congregation. I'm on the rotation to exhort at their 7 am service. As noted above, the older Koreans present rely on the interpreter while it is clear that the younger adults and children can understand everything I'm saying without the translator. I love those saints and they love the saints of our local PCA congregations.

I guess, in the end, I know that racism exists and it certainly existed in Paul's time in a way that was terribly acute. I wish the author of the blog post would follow the Biblical example and call out specific acts of un-Christian behavior when they occur rather than broad-brushing the Bride of Christ. Paul didn't say: "You Churches are racist" but he spoke to their identity in Christ and called them to who they were in Him. Labeling Christians as racists is not the Biblical pattern. Racism is a sin and we need to call people out of it but when they're Christians they are called to be who they are. He doesn't exhort to the identity of Christians but labels as if they are simply sinners.


----------



## Bob66

*The more things change, the more they remain the same......*

I'm 66 years old white male, born and raised in South Mississippi. I am very familiar with racism. There was a time when there was no question that far too many whites were determined to keep this country seperate and unequal. And many of our churches today are still occupied by those who grew up in the segregated South, including myself. But I sense nothing today that could even approach the attitudes I once regarded as the norm.....But the past has left a barrier we have not been able to remove.....You can verify this unfortunate reality, by simply stopping by any PCA, EPC, PCUS, First Baptist, Methodist, or any given church, in any city and see a black majority in black churches and a white majority in white churches....You can go to almost any city in the country and see what amounts to segregated housing. Go to any public school, or college and see groups usually clustered according to race. I can only say that as one currently in a predomately white Presbyterian church, that we have been for years making a major effort to break through this barrier that remains.....We have major tutoring programs in predomatley black schools, we have endevored to reach out to the black communtiy in many ways, but sad to say we still remain essentially Christians in different worlds.... I wish I knew the solution? We could quote Scripture until we were blue in the face, but tomorrow will dawn with things as is...... Frankly, I think we have become too comfortable over many decades isolated in our own churches, with our own race, in our own parts of town. We're safe there, or so we think......We can easily blame each other, but we're all failures, black and white, for NOT living what we preach from our pulpits, and in our Sunday Schools....


----------



## KMK

Bob66 said:


> I'm 66 years old white male, born and raised in South Mississippi. I am very familiar with racism. There was a time when there was no question that far too many whites were determined to keep this country seperate and unequal. And many of our churches today are still occupied by those who grew up in the segregated South, including myself. But I sense nothing today that could even approach the attitudes I once regarded as the norm.....But the past has left a barrier we have not been able to remove.....You can verify this unfortunate reality, by simply stopping by any PCA, EPC, PCUS, First Baptist, Methodist, or any given church, in any city and see a black majority in black churches and a white majority in white churches....You can go to almost any city in the country and see what amounts to segregated housing. Go to any public school, or college and see groups usually clustered according to race. I can only say that as one currently in a predomately white Presbyterian church, that we have been for years making a major effort to break through this barrier that remains.....We have major tutoring programs in predomatley black schools, we have endevored to reach out to the black communtiy in many ways, but sad to say we still remain essentially Christians in different worlds.... I wish I knew the solution? We could quote Scripture until we were blue in the face, but tomorrow will dawn with things as is...... Frankly, I think we have become too comfortable over many decades isolated in our own churches, with our own race, in our own parts of town. We're safe there, or so we think......We can easily blame each other, but we're all failures, black and white, for NOT living what we preach from our pulpits, and in our Sunday Schools....



Please click on 'Signature Requirements' under my signature to find out how to update yours.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian

Well said Bob.


----------



## a mere housewife

> 'A middle-aged Korean American elder stood up to implore that the relationship remain as it was. There are still many congregations in which the older generation still speaks Korean and the time was not right yet to change the way things were arranged as they were working well. He expressed his great gratitude for the PCA. Thus, while someone bemoans the way he believes the Korean Churches are treated as "outsiders", they feel a warm kinship to us.
> 
> On that note, I exhorted today at the Korean Agape Church as I do about once a month. They are a small Korean American Church that meets at the worship location of a sister PCA congregation. I'm on the rotation to exhort at their 7 am service. As noted above, the older Koreans present rely on the interpreter while it is clear that the younger adults and children can understand everything I'm saying without the translator. I love those saints and they love the saints of our local PCA congregations.'



I read this this evening in the _Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah_ of the Jews during the dispersion, and couldn't help thinking of an analogy with Colossians 3:



> 'A nation, the vast majority of which was dispersed over the whole inhabited earth, had ceased to be a special, and become a world-nation. Yet its heart beat in Jerusalem, and thence the life-blood passed to its most distant members.'





> ' . . .put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him: Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.'




It's true that our churches often reflect the fact that our society has economic/social/cultural 'comfort zones'. Even in predominantly white churches, not a lot of lower class people are found in upper-middle class churches; and I think this is as much about the comfort zone of the lower classes as about the comfort zone of the upper middle classes; and is not a uniquely 'American' problem. We were in a church in Mexico where almost all the people were very poor; my husband visited another church in Mexico more recently where most of the people were relatively well to do. (I wonder if classism is not actually a larger contributing factor now than racism in our largely homogenous churches?) There are cultural comfort zones as well: I probably wouldn't choose to attend a Korean church over a similar non-Korean church. This isn't ideal and there have to be ways to make more conscious efforts against it; but the fact that people have different comfort zones doesn't have to mean that we have no value for each other, or that we don't love each other as one body in the Lord; that we don't all know and _love_ the knowledge that our hearts beat from the same center, and the life blood flows to us from the same Lord. The fact that I wouldn't naturally feel most comfortable in a Korean church doesn't mean I undervalue Koreans, or think my Lord does.

Incidentally, though I dearly love my home church, the church I have felt most at home in was oddly the poor Hispanic one in Mexico City. I still feel like I'm missing an arm, because of missing those people.


----------



## SRoper

What bothers me most about this is not that there are racists in the PCA, but that there aren't any racists. What I mean is that while I have heard members confess all sorts of heinous sins, I'm not sure I have ever heard someone confess the sin of racism. You'd think that where elders in the church were members of the White Citizens' Council there would be some room for repentance and reconciliation.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Rufus said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> 
> most of my friends use (excuse my usage of it if it offends anybody) nigger, negro, and nigga as greeting terms for their white friends along with many jokes about black stereotypes.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> And why do you call these people "friends"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually thank you for pointing that out to me, and I don't hang out with those people as much as I used to (mainly because of sexual nature of the conversation (none of them are Christians), by the way this a group of people who all hang out with each other). But they've always been my "friends".
Click to expand...


Andres, Are you going to condemn someone for having friends that use language that you don't find appropriate? You don't have non Christian friends? I have a lot of them. From all walks of life. And from my experience it is the African Americans who use this terminology the most. And I might add that some of the best friends I have had have been non Christians. I led one of those non Christians to Christ last year. I loved him and he actually shared a brotherly love with me for years. And his speech would have made you not be or accept his friendship if you truly live by what you seemed to be coming down on Rufus for. 

On a side note I became a Christian after being invited to join the KKK. I refused. I hate racism. It was one of the goads God used to draw me to himself. I have to admit that I don't have as strong of an appreciation for all cultures but that has nothing to do with skin color. The Churches I have belonged to over the past decades have all had diversity of ethnic background. One of my Elders is Black. One of my Elders was raised Brahmin I believe. They are Godly men and much better than I am. My Congregation has mixed marriages oriental with whites, Black with whites, and so on. The RPCNA led the way for the past 150 years basically in the racial and slavery issue. The President of the Bible College I attended was Black and had a white wife. He was also one of my Elders when I attended College Park Baptist Church. 

I would like to say this. Drudging up the past isn't always beneficial. Moving on and allowing repentance to have its work is sometimes the best. Sometimes stirring up the past only exacerbates the issue. Please don't remind me of my sinful past. Some people have refused to forgive me. And they still want people to remember me for my past. Sometimes I think that is all that is going on. The accuser of the brethren just wants to do his work.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

SolaGratia said:


> What should be DONE if there is racism in Reformed Churches and Seminaries?



Wouldn't you think it should be called out and repentance required?


----------



## Andres

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Andres, Are you going to condemn someone for having friends that use language that you don't find appropriate? You don't have non Christian friends?



Randy, you do make a good point and I apologize to Sean for condemning him. He's an intelligent young man, so he doesn't need me to tell him who to be friends with. With that said, I don't think I'd be friends with someone who used racist language. I can put up with some other coarse words from pagans, but racism would be where I drew the line.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Andres said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Andres, Are you going to condemn someone for having friends that use language that you don't find appropriate? You don't have non Christian friends?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Randy, you do make a good point and I apologize to Sean for condemning him. He's an intelligent young man, so he doesn't need me to tell him who to be friends with. With that said, I don't think I'd be friends with someone who used racist language. I can put up with some other coarse words from pagans, but racism would be where I drew the line.
Click to expand...

Andre,
I believe in this scenerio it isn't about racism. Either way, you have stated where you would stand and I just think you might be cutting people off who you would truly be loved by and be able to love. I have friends from many walks of life. Some are gay, some are pot smokers, Some are just plain good ole folk without these hangups. Some are lawyers. LOL. Some people use this terminology as terms of endearment. Go figure. A lot of my non Christian friends use the Lord's name in vain. And I personally think that is more sinful. Either way, you have stated where you stand. 

Be Encouraged,


----------



## Andres

Randy, I wanted to be clear I'm not arguing that I'm right in my position. I hope this is an issue where the Lord's grace can work in me. I certainly have my own sins that other have to deal with.


----------



## seajayrice

I'd agree with Randy, if there is charity for lawyers and journalist, surely we can forbear with racists.


----------



## jwithnell

Part of what bothers me about all this is the way the PCA seems to be blamed for things outside its control and time. For example:


> How desegregation led to the launching of Christian schools in Jackson, MS.


The Brown decision (or to be more accurate, its later enforcement) led whites _throughout_ the south to start various "Christian" academies. Sadly, the folks that started these academies also held strong political control and often lowered the funding for the newly segregated public schools to the point that they were decimated. The PCA is to be blamed for this? What I saw in the PCA around 1980 were some of the earliest families in the home school movement: these families could not send their children to the state schools, nor could they support the white-flight academies. So they started teaching at home.

I'm also a bit unsettled by the "not in my state, the other states are the prejudiced ones" offered during this discussion. Some differences should be considered. In the south, we were taught to maintain a kind of formality in our relationships with others, particularly those we did not know well. This did not mean that everyone maintained an open mind to those of different races or ideas, just that these opinions would not generally be spoken. In other parts of the country, people tended to be more in-your-face: the behavior during the busing movements in northern school districts amply displayed this. No part of the country was immune to racism. Some just talked about it more.

However, the idea that the media produced the image of a racist south is laughable. There was nothing imaginary about the train loads of people that moved north to gain the opportunity to make improvements in their lives. If you want an idea about how badly things could be, read: Like Judgment Day

I've got tons more I could say, but will stop for now and get some sleep. Just don't get sucked into the idea that the modern reformed churches and scholars furthered racism and that this was somehow kept secret.


----------



## GulfCoast Presbyterian

Having lived all over the United States, and a good portion of my life in Mississippi, my observation is that racism is most certainly not confined to the South, or more (or less) prevelent in Mississippi, or confined to caucasians. It is a consequence of sin, of which we should constantly be on the alert, in both our own lives, and others.


----------



## jfschultz

There have been many good comments on this.

I had passing fellowship with a number of the early PCA'ers in the late 60's and early 70's at the Pensacola Theological Institute. I do not recall anything racist being said. The old PCUS, with perhaps a few exceptions, did not expand beyond Dixie. That being said remember many of these founding elders were in the ministry in to 40's, 50's and 60's and are creatures of their time and culture. I would not be surprised if they had some hint of racism in their personal lives.

(I do remember one Q&A when a number of the speakers commented on men with long hair. Dr. Calvin Malefyt, of University Reformed Church, Ann Arbor, MI, stood up, pointing to the stained glass windows, asked "What about Him?")

Sometimes these "scholars" grab a straws. I ran across an article on-line a few years ago where the mid-60's split at Second Presbyterian Church in Memphis that formed Independent Presbyterian Church as a prime example. That "oxymoron on Walnut Grove" only joined the PCA within the last decade!


----------



## ericfromcowtown

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I would like to say this. Drudging up the past isn't always beneficial. Moving on and allowing repentance to have its work is sometimes the best. Sometimes stirring up the past only exacerbates the issue. Please don't remind me of my sinful past. Some people have refused to forgive me. And they still want people to remember me for my past. Sometimes I think that is all that is going on. The accuser of the brethren just wants to do his work.


----------



## sdesocio

I think Duncan wrote a response to this article that seemed to be pretty honestly repentant. Racism is a problem, but I tend to think Bradley is looking to intentionally push himself away from the PCA... Just saying. There are not a ton of Black guys in the PCA, but the ones who are there might be better people to ask than Bradley. Ie Rae Whitlock, or Doug Logan, or Wy Plummer, or any other number of guys.


----------

