# What are your thoughts on a need for an Awakening today?



## pepper (Apr 9, 2009)

Do you think that we need an awakening today? What are your thoughts on this subject?


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## re4med (Apr 9, 2009)

I think Bob Godfrey said it best (at the Ligonier National Conference 2009) when he was asked what it would take for the church to recover the "holiness of God' in their lives. He answered: "when God's people start taking the Lord's day seriously then we will see real change".


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## Marrow Man (Apr 9, 2009)

Oh, that's good William. I might just have to work that quote into my next sermon.


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## re4med (Apr 9, 2009)

His answer came on the tail of a major life decision I made on this issue and I guess that is why I remember it so well...

However, I do agree with him on this topic.


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## creformed01 (Apr 9, 2009)

What the church really needs is a 2nd reformation. The church, for the most part, has become worldly and needs to change. To make sure this change occurs, we , as a people, need to pray more and depend upon the awakening of the church to it by means of the Holy Spirit.


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## Whitefield (Apr 9, 2009)

We must always remember that an Awakening or a Revival is always God-generated and never human-generated. There is no formula or ritual which will bring it about. But, as in past Awakenings, God brings a great conviction of sin over a people and then shines the light of His glorious Gospel on them.


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

Of course there's a need for an Awakening. Or a Reformation, or whatever term you want to use for "widespread working of God in the lives of the people in the world". There always is.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Apr 9, 2009)

I believe we need another Reformation in the Church. We need to get back to the Gospel and place it at the center of our ministry, not helping people have their "Best life now". Church discipline has faded into obscurity and it needs to be returned to practice.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Apr 9, 2009)

I agree that true revival is sovereignly wrought. However, in Jonathan Edwards time, the Great Awakening began when people already in the pews started getting saved through biblical preaching.


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## KMK (Apr 9, 2009)

pepper said:


> Do you think that we need an awakening today? What are your thoughts on this subject?



Welcome to PB.

You need to fix your signature. Go here: The PuritanBoard - Signature/Profile Reqts


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## PresbyDane (Apr 9, 2009)

Hey I think you guys (americans) should go for your first reformation in stead of yet another awakening


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## AThornquist (Apr 9, 2009)

OH Martin did not just go there **triple finger snap**


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## Marrow Man (Apr 9, 2009)

I think he's just pulling out the Luther "magic bullet"!


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## creformed01 (Apr 9, 2009)

I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis? I truly believe reformation is needful but I believe we also need to list what needs reforming and have a place where we can have our own "Diet of Worms" so to speak


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Re4mdant said:
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> > Hey I think you guys (americans) should go for your first reformation in stead of yet another awakening
> ...



I think he means that the Reformation took place in Europe/Asia. We technically haven't had one yet over here in the States. 



creformed01 said:


> I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis? I truly believe reformation is needful but I believe we also need to list what needs reforming and have a place where we can have our own "Diet of Worms" so to speak



Well, I think it would be considered vandalism nowadays if we actually *nailed* something to the doors of a physical building... maybe we can get some land somewhere and set up some doors for the express purpose of nailing a piece of paper to them?


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## pepper (Apr 9, 2009)

I agree with those who have said that God is the one who brings awakening, however it is also true that in the past history there are godly men praying for God to move among His people. Are we serious about seeking God for awakening in our churhces?


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## lynnie (Apr 9, 2009)

I have been praying for years for this. If we compare the USA to all the churches in Europe under RCC dominion before the Reformation, we have so much Arminian dispensationalism, hype, church growth techique, prophetic new revelation, liberalism, self esteem psychobabble, etc. It would be wonderful to have another Reformation back to good doctrine in the corrupted visible church. 

An awakening of the lost getting saved and brought into the church would be equally glorious. 

Iain Murray's book Pentecost Today is a good one to encourage prayer for true revival.


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## PresbyDane (Apr 9, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Re4mdant said:
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> > Hey I think you guys (americans) should go for your first reformation in stead of yet another awakening
> ...



See the answers of Creformed01 and Skyler


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## creformed01 (Apr 9, 2009)

> Posted by Skyler
> Well, I think it would be considered vandalism nowadays if we actually *nailed* something to the doors of a physical building... maybe we can get some land somewhere and set up some doors for the express purpose of nailing a piece of paper to them?/QUOTE]
> 
> If there were a common billboard that we could nail our thesis for discussion, as did Luther, (I do not believe Luther was engaging in vandalism )it would greatly help. The act of nailing a thesis was a common practice so the scholars could debate the issues.
> ...


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Apr 9, 2009)

Awakening is in the hands of God, and will come in His time (and that is only if He has another Awakening in store). He could also come back. Now THAT would be an Awakening like no other.


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## CharlieJ (Apr 9, 2009)

No. We do not need another Awakening. In Christ, we have everything we need. However, it would be wonderful to have one. The revivalist mentality sees only revival (explosive growth and near-miraculous reform) or decline. The Reformed see that revival is not the presence of the Holy Spirit, but only a greater manifestation of the work he is already doing. Even when the church is not in a season of obvious explosive growth, God is growing and maturing it in slower, quieter ways. It also makes sense that seasons of preparation and consolidation are necessary if converts are to be assimilated and discipled.

After having said all that, awakenings (or revivals) are great blessings from God that we should long for and pray for, and give thanks for when they come.


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

creformed01 said:


> > Posted by Skyler
> > Well, I think it would be considered vandalism nowadays if we actually *nailed* something to the doors of a physical building... maybe we can get some land somewhere and set up some doors for the express purpose of nailing a piece of paper to them?
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, but in America doing that would legally be considered vandalism. It's a different set of civil laws. That was my point--not that Luther was wrong. 



> What I would debate in that thesis is the arminian / semi- pelegian captivity of the church. We have gone a long, long way from what was the first reformation and its ideas into a system where man, not God, is in control.
> unfortunately there is no one council we can go to as at Worms. Perhaps it is time to rectify that and have such councils yet again.



I honestly don't think that Arminianism is at the root of the problem. It's a symptom, yes, but I don't think it's the cause. The cause is a lack of the real, life changing Christianity that can only be found in Christ. Correct doctrine won't solve the problem.


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## re4med (Apr 9, 2009)

Skyler,



> The cause is a lack of the real, life changing Christianity that can only be found in Christ. Correct doctrine won't solve the problem.


 
I would agree with this statement if the word "*alone*" were added. Thus "Correct doctrine *alone* won't solve the problem". I think you would agree that the statement you made proior to this sentence is, in fact, a doctrinal statement. Certainly nothing will change when doctrine remains in the theoretical or abstract. Life changing, life altering doctrine must be applied to everyday experience and existence or else it is nothing more than information. However, correct doctrine is essential to move one in the correct application.

Would you agree with that?


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

re4med said:


> Skyler,
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Yes, that's what I meant. Thanks.


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## JBaldwin (Apr 9, 2009)

These words from Revelation 3 to the Church at Laodicea come to mind:



> 14 “And to the angel of the church in Laodicea write: ‘The words of the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of God's creation.
> 
> 15 “‘I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were either cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing, not realizing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. 18 *I counsel you to buy from me gold refined by fire, so that you may be rich, and white garments so that you may clothe yourself and the shame of your nakedness may not be seen, and salve to anoint your eyes, so that you may see. 19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline, so be zealous and repent*. 20 Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and eat with him, and he with me. 21 The one who conquers, I will grant him to sit with me on my throne, as I also conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne. 22 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.



In my humble opinion there is no other word for the church than this. We are fat, lazy, selfish, blind and naked. We desparately need to repent. 

So do we need an awakening? Yes. Can it be done by us? NO. Can we ask God for it? Yes. 

If we want this awakening, we need to stop looking at others and take a serious look at ourselves and ask God to reveal our sin and to give us grace to repent. Then we need to pray that God will light a fire under us and awaken the church. I believe if we could really see what a bad state we are in, we would fall on our faces and beg God for mercy.


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## re4med (Apr 9, 2009)

> If we want this awakening, we need to stop looking at others and take a serious look at ourselves and ask God to reveal our sin and to give us grace to repent. Then we need to pray that God will light a fire under us and awaken the church. I believe if we could really see what a bad state we are in, we would fall on our faces and beg God for mercy.


 
Excellent point!


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## Rich Koster (Apr 9, 2009)

creformed01 said:


> I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis? I truly believe reformation is needful but I believe we also need to list what needs reforming and have a place where we can have our own "Diet of Worms" so to speak



We can nail a thesis to every liberal door that undermines the gospel and every other door for a Rev 2-3 effect. One post said if God's people took the Lord's day serious. I would edit it to say if God's people took his word more serious and themselves less.


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> creformed01 said:
> 
> 
> > I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis? I truly believe reformation is needful but I believe we also need to list what needs reforming and have a place where we can have our own "Diet of Worms" so to speak
> ...



I've never seen a door that undermined the Gospel. Where can I find one of these?

And secondly, what about glass doors? How do you propose we nail anything to a glass door?

I recommend slipping the theses under the door instead. It's less destructive and more likely to work every time.


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## creformed01 (Apr 9, 2009)

AMEN! Lets roll up our sleeves and get started slipping those Thesis' on every one of their doors. Does anyone have the addresses of these liberal churches ? I want to do a mass mailing.


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

creformed01 said:


> AMEN! Lets roll up our sleeves and get started nailing those Thesis'.Does anyone got the addresses of these liberal churches ? I want to do a mass mailing.



Now there's an idea. Why don't we do more mass mailings of solid, reformed evangelistic materials? With the data and printing methods available these days, we can create customized yet automated printings targeted at a given individual's religion.

...I think. I'm pretty sure you can find databases with that information, anyway...


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## Rich Koster (Apr 9, 2009)

Skyler said:


> Rich Koster said:
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1) Go through the door and listen and see what is being taught and lived by that congregation. Then rebuke the apostasy in writing.

2) Use duct tape


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> Skyler said:
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Duct tape fixes everything, even incorrect doctrine.


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## Rich Koster (Apr 9, 2009)

Skyler said:


> Rich Koster said:
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The McGiver (spelling?) Reformation


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## Skyler (Apr 9, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> Skyler said:
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I think it's "McGyver" if I'm not mistaken. But yeah, that's what we need.


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## Rich Koster (Apr 9, 2009)

OK on the spelling. Now beam me up, I'm through on this one


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## PresbyDane (Apr 9, 2009)

There you guys went and destroyed a perfectly good and serious thread


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## Rich Koster (Apr 9, 2009)

My first post was serious on this thread and still is.


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## Berean (Apr 9, 2009)

Re4mdant said:


> There you guys went and destroyed a perfectly good and serious thread



Martin's running for Admin


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## creformed01 (Apr 9, 2009)

I am still serious about a new reformation--its really needed.


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## Casey (Apr 9, 2009)

re4med said:


> I think Bob Godfrey said it best (at the Ligonier National Conference 2009) when he was asked what it would take for the church to recover the "holiness of God' in their lives. He answered: "when God's people start taking the Lord's day seriously then we will see real change".


Without the greater context to interpret Godfrey's remark, I must say that this sounds a bit too _quid pro quo_ for me. Sanctifying the Lord's Day is a _result_ of the Spirit's work, not necessarily a precursor for it. It's like saying "if only we would obey God's law more then we'd be more holy."


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## Joseph Scibbe (Apr 10, 2009)

creformed01 said:


> I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis?




On the door of the White House?


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## Skyler (Apr 10, 2009)

Joseph F Scibbe said:


> creformed01 said:
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> > I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis?
> ...



I chose not to say that. This has little if anything to do with politics so that's not really a fair comparison.

Though, it would get a bit of publicity... if you could get past the Secret Service.


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## Hawaiian Puritan (Apr 10, 2009)

This is a big issue for those of us who are believers who are still in the PCUSA. As you know, we are going through a big issue right now where a proposed resolution would provide that sexually immoral persons are not disqualified from ordination as ministers, elders or deacons. (It goes beyond just blessing homosexuality; persons who are in adulterous relationships or in heterosexual sexual relationships outside of marriage would also be able to be considered for ordination.)

If this passes, my suspicion is that it is the end of PCUSA, and probably pretty quickly. In any event, though, the promotion of sexual immorality is just a symptom of a dying denomination. Although there are still a few vibrant churches left, the denomination as a whole is dying rapidly through apostasy, age, lack of Biblically-trained ministers, and no desire to evangelize.

For those of us who are still there, in the end all we can do is pray to the Lord for revival and awakening. It could be a blessing that when the denomination dies, a new church of committed believers could come out of the ashes.


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## creformed01 (Apr 10, 2009)

Skyler said:


> Joseph F Scibbe said:
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## timmopussycat (Apr 10, 2009)

CaseyBessette said:


> re4med said:
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> 
> > I think Bob Godfrey said it best (at the Ligonier National Conference 2009) when he was asked what it would take for the church to recover the "holiness of God' in their lives. He answered: "when God's people start taking the Lord's day seriously then we will see real change".
> ...


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## Rangerus (Apr 10, 2009)

creformed01 said:


> I think I agree with Martin here.. but where can we nail our 95 thesis?



On Obama's hiney. 

-----Added 4/10/2009 at 10:54:18 EST-----



Whitefield said:


> in past Awakenings, God brings a great conviction of sin over a people and then shines the light of His glorious Gospel on them.



We are just a twinkling of the eye away from this great conviction. Many are soon to see the error of their decisions. Poor choices and false thinking are being reported in the papers every day as if a new and glorious day has dawned. Sadly for them it will only lead to a trail of tears. Once the burden becomes too great, then they will once again seek His commandments, statutes and judgments and the bands of their yoke will be broken and they made to walk upright.


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Apr 11, 2009)

Awakening is the result of conviction of sin, so until God grants _His Church_ conviction of sin (which results in an explosion of evangelistic fervor for those under the terrible judgment of God), it will be impossible to "create" an Awakening or another Reformation (no matter how many theses we duct tape to people's windshields or slip under doors ).


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## TaylorOtwell (Apr 11, 2009)

An "awakening" I would love to see is simply an embracing of the marks of a true church. The word rightly preached; the sacraments rightly administered; and church discipline practiced. Confessional churches who love word and sacrament. 

It seems like awakenings that don't center on this usually turn into pietism.


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## Michael Doyle (Apr 11, 2009)

Would it not be correct to say that in the 15th century, there was a restriction on the accessibility of the word of God whereby in this day and age, people are knowingly ignorant. The same methodology would hardly apply.

As far as an awakening goes, God is the Author of all awakenings, if you will, and uses the means necessary to bring about that end. I like the quote concerning people once again recognizing the Sabbath and adhering to it being a major step.

-----Added 4/11/2009 at 08:30:14 EST-----



CaseyBessette said:


> re4med said:
> 
> 
> > I think Bob Godfrey said it best (at the Ligonier National Conference 2009) when he was asked what it would take for the church to recover the "holiness of God' in their lives. He answered: "when God's people start taking the Lord's day seriously then we will see real change".
> ...



I am assuming the author and advocates of this position are not looking to put themselves under law for the sake of awakening the church. That hardly seems like a well thought conclusion. My assumption and the reason for my agreement to this has to do with the church coming to God with anticipation of His Word and sacrament and being a witness to the "world" as to our sabbath rest in Christ. We (I) joyously come to the Lord`s day and hold it sacred because the Holy Spirit has given me the desire and longing to receive God`s means of grace.

Sorry, I am probably way off topic here.


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## creformed01 (Apr 11, 2009)

Here is a link to the entire ligonier conference. Watch it and tell me what you think. Ligonier Ministries 2009 National Conference

-----Added 4/11/2009 at 12:33:20 EST-----

I am new to this how do i thank someone for their post?


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## Joseph Scibbe (Apr 24, 2009)

Skyler said:


> Joseph F Scibbe said:
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Very true, I concede the point. Maybe on the door of Joel Osteens church as well as Rick Warrens.


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## christiana (Apr 24, 2009)

In his Foreword to his book Today's Evangelism Ernest Reisinger states:

'Church history teaches us that the church is always drifting away from the Scriptures---always in need of self-examination and reviving.'

This was a good book and helpful in seeing what the real needs are for each believer in sharing God's truth without error in the world.


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## Knoxienne (Apr 24, 2009)

Berean said:


> Re4mdant said:
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> > There you guys went and destroyed a perfectly good and serious thread
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I for one would consider it an honor to get a warning from Martin!


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## PresbyDane (Apr 24, 2009)

Knoxienne said:


> Berean said:
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Why


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## OPC'n (Apr 24, 2009)

It would be wonderful if it would happen in our country! It is happening in other countries however. Seems like God takes turns with different countries.


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## Knoxienne (Apr 25, 2009)

Re4mdant said:


> Knoxienne said:
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Brother Martin, I sent you a PM!


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## Pergamum (Apr 25, 2009)

I think we ARE experiencing the starts of an Awakening today...or at least a resurgence of biblical soteriology....


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Apr 25, 2009)

I think it's getting a lot of press for some reason, but I think we'll have to wait 10 years to find out how many people stay Calvinist. (by their fruits, ye shall know them)


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