# A priest and a minister



## SRoper

This is not the beginning of a joke, sorry to disappoint. Is is proper to say a minister mediates between God and the congregation? What is the difference between a priest and a minister? Why should we call a (teaching) elder a minister?


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## dudley

Protestant churches do not have priests, but ministers. This is because we who are Protestant believe all Christians have equal status in God's eyes and direct access to God. There is no special class of Christians. At the same time, some people's "gifts" are well suited to the tasks of preaching and pastoral care, and these people are "called" to the ministry. 

Protestant churches reject the idea that there is a special class of religious people called "priests."In ancient Israelite religion, for example, priests came from a special family, and were the only ones allowed into the innermost chamber of the temple where the altar was.People brought their sacrifices to the priests, who took them to the altar and offered them to God on the people's behalf. Thus there were two classes of people, religiously: those who had direct contact with God, who acted on behalf of the other class, whose access to God came only through the first.

The central belief of the great early major protestant reformers, led by Luther, Zwingli, and Calvin, was that humans can do nothing to merit salvation.God needs no offerings.Salvation is a one-way street, a free gift from God to humans that comes in the form of forgiveness for sin.The implications of this for the way that Protestant Christians think about their clergy are huge. People have no need of a human intermediary. Each person stands directly before God, saved not because a priest performed certain actions, but simply because, by God's grace, he or she is reconciled and has a restored relationship with God through Jesus Christ.Luther, and Zwingli, and Calvin following him, expressed this belief with the phrase "the priesthood of all believers.

Catholics actually believe that when a priest is ordained they pretty much become a little Jesus that can go around doing what Jesus did. They can hear confessions , a man made sacrament by the catholic church and forgive sins in Christs name. They can change the bread and wine into Jesus actual body and blood..so catholics think priests have special powers..and the priest becomes the mediator between man and God and the savior. We who are Protestant believe that we can all go directly to God...the miister is there to help guide administer Baptims and the Lords Supper as a Memorial of Christs finihed work on calvary. The minister is an equal with all in the congregation. The bible also says call no man "Father"...Catholics call their priests 'Father" and place him on a pedastal......untill recenyly at least...I am an ex catholic and now a Protestant and I now reject the whole notion of catholic priesthood and the special powers that they supposedly have..I am happy to say to my minister as a Protestant .."Pastor" ..who I look to for guidance and direction ... not as a intemediary. I am thannful I am a protestant now and no longer a catholic for this and many other reasons...it is why I renounce catholicism...and the pope and the Romanists and embrace historic Protestantism.

Scott , The bible teaches us in 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God and one mediator between God ...There is one mediator between God and man, Christ Jesus.Roman catyholicism like every thing else distorts and teaches a false teaching....The concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. First, the New Testament does not teach that there are to be priests in the New Covenant. Instead, the New Testament teaches that all believers are priests. 1 Peter 2:5-9 describes believers as a “holy priesthood” and a “royal priesthood.” Revelation 1:6 and 5:10 both describe believers as “a kingdom and priests.” In the Old Covenant, the faithful had to approach God through the priests. The priests were mediators between the people and God. The priests offered sacrifices to God on behalf of the people. That is no longer necessary. Because of Jesus’ sacrifice, we can now approach God’s throne with boldness (Hebrews 4:16). The temple veil tearing in two at Jesus’ death was symbolic of the dividing wall between God and humanity being destroyed. We can approach God directly, ourselves, without the use of a human mediator. Why? Because Jesus Christ is our great High Priest (Hebrews 4:14-15; 10:21), and the only mediator between us and God (1 Timothy 2:5). The New Testament teaches that there are to be elders (1 Timothy 3), deacons (1 Timothy 3), bishops (Titus 1:6-9), and pastors (Ephesians 4:11) – but not priests.

Remember Scott the concept of confession of sin to a priest is nowhere taught in Scripture. We are to confess our sins to God (1 John 1:9). As New Covenant believers, we do not need mediators between us and God. We can go to God directly because of Jesus’ sacrifice for us. 1 Timothy 2:5, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.”


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## Philip

Note that as originally meant, the term "priest" would be accurate for ministers, given that it derives from the Greek "presbyter." However, given that the term was then applied to the Jewish priesthood, Dudley is correct.


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## SRoper

Thanks Dudley. I have heard some protestants teach that we shouldn't call the pastor a minister because we are all ministers (in the same way we are all priests). I was trying to drive at the distinction between priests and ministers, if there is one. If mediation is not the right word, then what do we call the function of the pastor when he preaches the Word, administers the sacraments, and prays on behalf of the congregation?

Philip, that's interesting. I'm curious how the Septuagint uses the word presbyter.


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## Contra_Mundum

We are *ministers* in a certain Man's Government.


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## dudley

SRoper said:


> Thanks Dudley. I have heard some protestants teach that we shouldn't call the pastor a minister because we are all ministers (in the same way we are all priests). I was trying to drive at the distinction between priests and ministers, if there is one. If mediation is not the right word, then what do we call the function of the pastor when he preaches the Word, administers the sacraments, and prays on behalf of the congregation?
> 
> Philip, that's interesting. I'm curious how the Septuagint uses the word presbyter.



Scott, My two Presbyterian ministers to me are ministers of the Word and Sacrament. They are not a mediator as the catholic priest pretends to be. Chrsit is our only mediator with God the Father who is our only true Father and not the father of catholic priesthood and or their bishops and pope. WE give homage to God alone and call no man Father....another reason I renounced Roman catholicism....there are so many reasons I renounced catholicism and embaced Protestantsim. I call my Presbyterian minister Pastor...he signs his notes to me 'Steve" and the same for our assisatnt pastor , Pastor Dave..he signs his memos for Sunday school to me .."Dave..but I call him Pastor Dave..for he and Pastor Steve ....Pastors me and the congregation. I hope this helps....we Protestants should never try to be like the Roman catholics....


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## Jack K

dudley said:


> Protestant churches do not have priests



I understand what you mean. But actually, we do have a Priest. Just one. He's a good one.


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## dudley

Jack K said:


> dudley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Protestant churches do not have priests
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understand what you mean. But actually, we do have a Priest. Just one. He's a good one.
Click to expand...


Amen my brother Jack, Our only priest in our Reformed Protestant churches and most Protestant churches is Jesus Christ, our savior and mediator.


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## Rufus

Doesn't Minister also have a meaning as servant?


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## SRoper

So I looked through the LXX this morning, and it appears presbyter is only used for elder and old man, never priest. The Vulgate also maintains the distinction between priest and elder. In my quick perusal I found that the Vulgate translates presbyter several different ways and tends to transliterate presbyter when speaking of the NT church office (except when presbyter is in close conjunction with apostle, which I found strange). I don't know Latin, so I can't comment any more on that.

Is the difficulty with the word priest limited to the English language, or did the merger of elder and priest happen in other languages? I would guess that the language would tend to follow the theology of Roman Catholicism.

Note, I am not at all trying to rehabilitate the usage of the word priest to mean elder. I'm really trying to better understand the role of a minister. I was just bringing in the idea of a priest to provide contrast.


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## VictorBravo

Scott, I think Phillip's point was the etymology of the English word "priest" comes from presbyter, not that it was used that way in the OT. I'm pretty sure the LXX uses "hiereus" for priest.


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## SRoper

Raymond, yes, that's what I understood also. I was answering my own question, "I'm curious how the Septuagint uses the word presbyter." I'm afraid I've been terribly confusing on this thread.


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