# WOW...Help!!



## shackleton (Apr 30, 2007)

I have recently begun discussions with someone at work who is searching for the truth. This search has led him mostly to Hinduism, Buddhism, Science even Catholicism (which ironically led him completely astray, they sent him looking into the other areas mentioned). 

He is well read in science, and man's religions. His studies have led him to believe that Jesus is love, everything is about love, God is not gender specific, he, she or it wants all people saved and while meditating _something _has told him that everyone will be saved in the end. 

A lot of the things he believes are so close to true Christianity, but with a slight twist. I am wondering if there is not some spiritual warfare going on, some of the things he is rattling off is so close to what I was taught by the Arminians it is scary, and he learned these things from reading about eastern religions, maybe Satan will allow even some truth, but without the whole truth or having it put together correctly, it leads people astray, especially when they think they are on the right track and told these things by our "leaders in the church."

When he is talking I am at a loss as to what to say to him. He does listen to me, he wants all aspects of the truth so he is interested in my "theistic" perspective. I have been sending him works by Berkhof, Shedd, Hodge and even Wayne Grudem on everything from creation to decrees to providence. He does believe everything happens for a purpose so I am trying to get him to make the connection between his "all guiding spirit" and the true God of the bible. Like Paul did with the idol to the unkown God. He believes that "god" created the world through evolution, so I have found "Christians" who also believe this, thinking maybe these people will at least get him curious about more, that is why I sent Grudem, he gives arguments for an old earth. I figured it was better to believe in the correct God and an old earth than just giving him everything at once.

Any way any advice or suggestions on how to handle this guy? He is also burned by the church so getting him to go would be difficult. This guy will be a tough case.


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## AV1611 (Apr 30, 2007)

In my experience you should target the root cause of his doubts rather than the doubts themselves. In that before my conversion evolution was true etc but it was not being showed the problems of evolution that "caused" by conversion but rather my seeing the reality of sin. Once converted I held to YEC because that is what the Bible taught.

*My advise:* Go for the jugular and show him the sinfulness of sin and the need for Christ. Once that is seen the rest can fall slowly into place. 

I have never read it but what about suggesting he read _[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Sinfulness-Sin-Puritan-Paperbacks/dp/0851516475"]The Sinfulness of Sin[/ame]_ by Ralph Venning?

_"Although The Sinfulness of Sin was written three hundred years ago, it remains an oasis of truth in a desert of lies. First published in the aftermath of the Great Plague of London and entitled Sin, The Plague of Plagues, it gives a crystal-clear explanation of what sin is, why it is so serious, and what we need to do about it. Here is serious medicine for a fatal epidemic."_


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## Kenneth_Murphy (Apr 30, 2007)

What ever you present to him, I would always present the truth as accurately as you can. I wouldn't try and have him take half steps just because his current thinking is closer to that half step position. If God is moving him, his current views won't stop him from getting to where God wants him to be in his views of the world.


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## Robin (Apr 30, 2007)

Erick,

Do what Francis Schaeffer did....

Make an effort (and it really IS) to be silent, empathetic and listen to him caringly. Do this for at least an hour before advising anything. In fact, the least "advice" the better.

Yes, do say things that validate his questions and position as seeker: "Hm um..; tell me more; what made you get to this position? why do you believe XYZ?" are all devices to draw-out the other person. Again, listen sincerely and caringly. Realize, people have good reasons to doubt. Too often, we don't really CARE about how a person came to a place of anger or doubt but just want to pounce on them with corrections. Be mindful of the temptation to control the conversation with rebuttals. Invest in an ongoing relationship - Christians are to "make disciples..." which means to make learners; which means it takes time to teach people the things of Christ.

(Btw, this is a rare behavior for Christians - especially "apologists.")

If it's at work, make sure you don't use work time for personal visiting. It dishonors your employer's trust. Obviously, make time for your friend that doesn't cut into work time (lunch or breaks, maybe things will require you go out for coffee later?) 

Francis Schaeffer recognized that all people are to be honored as "image bearers" (made in the Image of God.) This goes a long way in "earning a hearing" from them when the time comes to explain the Gospel - and especially the hard truth of their sinfulness against a Holy God.

Jesus used a tactic: Law for the proud; Gospel for the humble. This means if the person is rigidly self-sufficient or critical of Christianity - they get the Law first. Contra a person who is softer, more open should hear the wonderful mercy of the Gospel. Be sensitive to the two categories and learn about the "two languages" of Scripture: Law and Gospel. Of course, there's much to this...but think of it like you're preparing soil and seed planting. It could be you won't see the fruit ripen - another Christian will.

Meanwhile, here is a study by Kim Riddlebarger "Telling People the Truth, in Love" a Reformed approach to evangelism:

http://www.christreformed.org/resources/sermons_lectures/00000069.shtml?main

Blessings,

R.


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## CalvinandHodges (Apr 30, 2007)

Greetings:

I agree with the above statements. He needs to be shown his sinful nature. Jesus says to "Repent and Believe." You need to stress his abject poverty of spirit as reflected in the Ten Commands. Especially their spiritual application:

"If you look at a woman with lust in your heart, then you have already committed adultery."

"Whoever is angry with his brother without cause shall be in the danger of the judgment."

Total Depravity is the key: all his striving, all his knowledge cannot make him acceptable to God. His very good works are filthy rags. It is impossible for a sinner to stand before a just and Holy God will will by no means spare the guilty. His pride in himself, his abilities, and especially his intellect needs to be struck down. He needs to be shown that there is nothing - absolutely nothing - that he can do that will make him acceptable to God.

Do not be put off by Budda, or Kung-fu-tze or the pope: it is what Jesus says in the Bible concerning his depraved state that needs to be driven into his conscience, by the power of the Spirit. Once he realizes that:

"The imagination of the thoughts of his heart are evil from his youth."

"There is none righteous, no, not one."

"The wages of sin is death."

Then the gospel in all its purity will seem glorious to him: That Jesus fulfilled the Law, and that by faith in Him one can be saved from their sins, that this is a gift of God freely given in being Born Again.

Pray, brother, Pray hard for your friend, and I will too. For this realization of sin, depravity, and salvation can only be given to someone by the Spirit of the Living God.

God is merciful.

Grace,

-CH


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## AV1611 (Apr 30, 2007)

Robin said:


> (Btw, this is a rare behavior for Christians - especially "apologists.")



 I know I am guilty of this 

I have found this (edited) verse helps me get things into perspective when evangelising:

_"What think thee of Christ is the test,
Because you cannot be right in the rest,
Until you think rightly in Him!"_​


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## shackleton (Apr 30, 2007)

I am an introvert by nature so I am naturally quite and listen. Ironically, this causes people to tell me things they don't usually tell others. 

As far as work. We are Firefighters so unless someone dies or a house catches fire we can talk for hours. 

He told me a story of how a dream he had came true, this realy affected him. So I told him, "If nothing else that proves everything is determined. Since you had a dream then forgot about it and finding yourself playing right into the fulfillment without knowing." This led to a conversation about how God has everything planned out for a purpose, and his dream followed by fullfillment proves this. I was trying to use the argument Paul used when he spoke about baptism for the dead. If you don't believe in the resurrection, then why do you baptise for the dead. Sort of an nice ad hominem argument. I see him on a regular basis so I can ease him in. He is interested in my view point now and will listen because I told him some other things that helped him. I have been giving him alot of stuff by old reformed people and telling him things to supplement it, trying to help him come to the right conclusion on his own. 

I don't know, I am trying not to attack him with the gospel, but help ease him into the truth. I am torn between these two, as far as which is correct. I feel like I am stuggling between bombarding him with why he is wrong and just subtly sneaking the truth in in small amounts for him to chew on. This will be a learning experience.


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