# Reading Historical Theology in the Original Languages



## Davidius (Nov 28, 2007)

For those of you who read Latin, Greek, Dutch, German, French, etc., do you ever read entire primary texts of historical theology in the original language? or do you read in translation except when doing close textual analysis of a passage? If the former, where can one acquire, for example, a copy of the Latin text of the institutes or full volumes of the early fathers in Latin and Greek?


----------



## greenbaggins (Nov 28, 2007)

Almost all of the early church fathers are available in the Migne edition on books.google.com 

Also available on that site (just recently put up) is the Latin edition of Turretin's Institutes. The Latin original of Benedict Pictet, and many other scholastics is also available. That site plans on having every single book in the common domain available in the next seven years, approximately.


----------



## Davidius (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm not familiar with the names of these collections like "Migne." Could you give me a more direct link from books.google.com?


----------



## greenbaggins (Nov 28, 2007)

Migne is the definitive critical edition of the early church fathers. It was done in the 19th century. Go to books.google.com, click on advanced book search, click on "full view," and type in "patrologiae," and the first five things you see are all from the Migne set. Once you click on one of those, there is an option entitled "other editions," which are actually other volumes in the series. So, keep nosing around there, and you will find many, many jewels. Happy hunting.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Nov 28, 2007)

greenbaggins said:


> Migne is the definitive critical edition of the early church fathers. It was done in the 19th century. Go to books.google.com, click on advanced book search, click on "full view," and type in "patrologiae," and the first five things you see are all from the Migne set. Once you click on one of those, there is an option entitled "other editions," which are actually other volumes in the series. So, keep nosing around there, and you will find many, many jewels. Happy hunting.


Some diligent and nice person needs to compile an index of the Migne volumes with direct links to each.


----------



## greenbaggins (Nov 28, 2007)

OH, good grief, Chris! Did you have anyone in mind?


----------



## R. Scott Clark (Nov 28, 2007)

David,

The short answer is "yes and no." It depends on what the purpose is or whether a translation exists. The ideal way to read any text is to read it in the original language. Surely if one is going to do academic work and make definitive claims about it, one must read it in the original. 

There are good English translations of many texts, but there are also poor or less than optimal translations of texts. The only way to know with certainty is to compare the translation with the original. 

For less than academic purposes, yes, I read English translations. 

That said, we don't require our MA (HT) students to learn Latin, though many do so anyway and increasingly they seem to want to do their research in Latin texts -- which is very encouraging. We just had a student do ground-breaking work on P. van Mastricht, mainly out of hitherto untranslated Latin texts. Another student is working on Gratian manuscipts and learning how to read MS manuscripts and doing textual criticism. That's a little more esoteric than the work most of our students are doing, however. Most of our MDiv students don't take Latin.

Of the Institutes, the modern critical edition is the Battles edn, but Muller prefers the Allen (18th c.) and there are advantages to the Beveridge. For citation purposes, however, the Battles edn is to be used.

The critical Latin edn is in vols 1-3 of the Opera selecta. This is available in most academic libraries or via ILL or via ABE et al. Scholars also cite the ediiton in the Corpus Reformatorum, esp. for the earlier editions. There is a 19th century Latin text, ed. Tholuck, which one might find used, but it's been supersceded by the Opera Selecta.

rsc


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Nov 28, 2007)

greenbaggins said:


> OH, good grief, Chris! Did you have anyone in mind?


mmmh. No; but someone who knows thier way around Google books and knows all about Migne? Maybe? ...


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 28, 2007)

I provided links concerning Migne and the index of his works on Google recently:



VirginiaHuguenot said:


> This is a reference to Jacques Paul Migne's _Patrologia Latina_.



For a direct link to the index, see here. 

I've also provided links to Wilhelmus a'Brakel's _The Christian's Reasonable Service_ in Dutch (see here), Gisbertus Voetius' _Tractatus Selecti de Politica Ecclesiastica_ in Latin (see here or here for Lane's helpful post on his _Selectarum Disputationum_), J.A. Bengel's _Gnomon Novi Testamenti_ in Latin and English (see here), Petrus Dathenus' Psalter in Dutch (see here), Jean Crespin's _Histoire des Martyrs_ in French (see here), Benedict Pictet's _Theologia Christiana_ in Latin (see here), and William Ames' _Theologiæ medullæ_ in Latin (see here), among other works.

Also see here for portions of the Corpus Reformatorum at Google Books.


----------



## Davidius (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks to everyone for the insight and links.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 23, 2008)

Here's another for you, David.

Francis Turretin's four volumes of works including the 3-volume _Institutes_ and 1-volume _Disputationes_ (in Latin, the latter of which has not been translated into English, as far as I know -- see this thread):

_Institutes_, Vol. 1
_Institutes_, Vol. 2
_Institutes_, Vol. 3
_Disputationes_


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 23, 2008)

Also,

Philip Melanchthon, _Die Loci Communes_ (in German)


----------



## DMcFadden (Jan 23, 2008)

Dr. Clark (or other Latin scholar),

If someone wanted to begin learning Latin for reading Reformation era documents, what grammars, texts, or language learning resources would you recommend?


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 24, 2008)

More reading for anyone who might be interested:

Johannes a Marck, _Christianæ theologiæ medulla_ (in Latin)
Franciscus Junius, _Opuscula Selecta_ (in Latin, edited by Abraham Kuyper, including Junius' _Theses Theologicae_)
Johann Friedrich Stapfter, _Institutiones Theologiae Polemicae_ (in Latin)
William Ames, _Bellarminus enervatus_ (in Latin)
Pierre Du Moulin, _Bouclier de la foi_ (in French)


----------



## Davidius (Jan 24, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Dr. Clark (or other Latin scholar),
> 
> If someone wanted to begin learning Latin for reading Reformation era documents, what grammars, texts, or language learning resources would you recommend?



You can't go wrong with Wheelock's Latin.


----------



## greenbaggins (Jan 25, 2008)

Actually, I believe that Collins's ecclesiastical Latin book is the best for reading this period of Latin. Wheelock is more geared towards classical Latin. Ecclesiastical is rather different. I absolutely loved Collins's book, even though he is a papist, and every other sentence has the word "pope" in it. It is a book that can be used in self study extremely well.


----------



## R. Scott Clark (Jan 25, 2008)

I use Collins for Latin I and II. I also recommend Stelten's dictionary of ecclesiastical latin.

rsc


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 23, 2008)

For those who are interested, here is (I think) the first Reformed systematic theology ever written: _Le sommaire_ by William Farel (en français).


----------



## VictorBravo (Apr 23, 2008)

Thanks Andrew. That made my day. I'm always looking for things like this.


----------



## Kenneth_Murphy (Apr 23, 2008)

Sorry for this being slightly off the original topic.

If you want to learn or brush up on latin/greek via self study there are currently active online groups at ...

The LatinStudy List

The groups work through a chapter in either one or two weeks depending on the group. You turn in your translations for the exercises and are given back a collation with all the group members answers for each item. You can use this to help check yourself. You can also ask questions. There is a greek group that is half way through Mounce's Basic's of Biblical Greek. There are also a wheelocks latin group that is only on the 3rd chapter and a Collin's Latin group that is on unit 6 or so. So if you are motivated you can catch up to either of those.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (May 19, 2008)

Gisbertus Voetius' exposition of the Heidelberg Catechism (in Dutch) is available online here.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 13, 2008)

John Owen's _Theologoumena Pantodapa_ (_Biblical Theology_) in Latin is available online here (HT: Lon Graham):

Internet Archive: Details: The works of John Owen


----------



## DeoOpt (Aug 13, 2008)

The City of God (Latin: De Civitate Dei, also known as De Civitate Dei contra Paganos, "The City of God against the Pagans") I found mine at a half price book store for $16.00 Hard back


----------



## DTK (Aug 13, 2008)

Davidius said:


> I'm not familiar with the names of these collections like "Migne." Could you give me a more direct link from books.google.com?



There are 221 volumes of the Latin fathers by Migne (plus a few additions since Migne), and there are 161 of the Greek Church Fathers. Granted, these go later than the early church, and these volumes include medieval writers as well. I can't remember offhand how later the Greek writers go, but the Latin writers extend all the way to Innocent III approximately to the year 1217. Most of these are not presently available in Google books, but they are in the process of making them available.

Jacques Paul Migne, _Patrologiae Graecae_, 162 Volumes (Paris: J. P. Migne, 1857-87).

Jacques Paul Migne, _Patrologiae Latinae_, 221 Volumes plus supplements (Paris: J. P. Migne, 1857-87).

There are other later, critical editions that are becoming available, but Migne's edition has been in standard use by scholars for a very long time.

Go to this link, and scroll down to the middle of the page. It gives some links to the Migne volumes (PG = _Patrologiae Graecae_ and PL = _Patrologiae Latinae_). Some of the links are broken, but the chart is still remarkably helpful.

https://umdrive.memphis.edu/mhooker/google_books-bible_judaism_christianity.html#patristic

They say this web page is moving.

DTK


----------



## Kenneth_Murphy (Aug 13, 2008)

Logos has the first 20 volumes of
Jacques Paul Migne, Patrologiae Graecae, 162 Volumes (Paris: J. P. Migne, 1857-87).
on pre-pub. There isn't much interest for them at the asking price. Though I would like to see them produce these. Hopefully they can get some accademic institutions to help them fund it or some other creative approach. Having these electronic with connections to lexicons etc would be a big help in making use of these works.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 14, 2008)

Herman Agathon Niemeyer's _Collectio confessionum in Ecclesiis reformatis publicatarum_ (in Latin), which includes, for example, among other things, John Calvin's _Consensus Genevensis_, and Appendix, are both available online here:

Collectio confessionum in Ecclesiis ... - Google Book Search
Collectio confessionum in Ecclesiis ... - Google Book Search

A.A. Hodge says of the _Consensus Genevensis_:



> The "Consensus Genevensis" was drawn up by Calvin, A D. 1552, in the name of the Pastors of Geneva, and is a complete statement of Calvin's views on the subject of Predestination. It was designed to unite all the Swiss churches in their views of this great doctrine. It remains a pre-eminent monument of the fundamental principles of true Calvinism.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 28, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Here's another for you, David.
> 
> Francis Turretin's four volumes of works including the 3-volume _Institutes_ and 1-volume _Disputationes_ (in Latin, the latter of which has not been translated into English, as far as I know -- see this thread):
> 
> ...



This link is also useful for reading Turretin's _Institutes_ in Latin:

Institutio Theologiae Elencticae


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 28, 2008)

Abraham Kuyper's 3-volume Dutch treatise on Common Grace, _De Gemeene Gratie_, is available online here:

Vol. 1
Vol. 2
Vol. 3


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 1, 2008)

Hyperius Commentaries Online @ WolfenbÃ¼ttel | Historical TheoBlogy (October 31, 2008)
More Alting from Google Books | Historical TheoBlogy (October 30, 2008)


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 16, 2008)

Historical TheoBlogy » Blog Archive » 1648 Biblia Sacra by Junius-Tremellius-Beza - Online for Free (November 2, 2008)


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 22, 2008)

William Ames' lectures on the Psalms in Latin are available online here:

Lectiones in CL Psalmos Davidis, in ... - Google Book Search


----------

