# Chrislam



## pianoman

So, I just heard about this thing called chrislam with churches putting the Quran in their pews. Anybody know why these people are locking arms with Islam, and what they are thinking? Of course, I've heard that Rick Warren apparently likes the idea of chrislam. It definitely seems like islam is and will be an issue in America


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## JennyG

news to me, but I don't like the sound of it


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## J. Dean

Holy cow... 

A friend of mine said something to me about this the other day, but I thought he was pulling my leg. 

I need to bring this to the attention of others.


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## Reformed Thomist

I can support uniting with Muslims in certain ways in the _political_ arena (i.e., against gay 'marriage', combating militant atheism/secularism), but while Christianity and Islam as 'religions' or theological systems, on the surface, do have a lot in common (naturally, the latter being an heresy of the former), they are _fundamentally_ at odds, contradictory. There can be no syncretic 'Chrislam' _religion_ without the catholic faith being compromised -- in effect, rejected.


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## Rufus

I've heard of this several times on facebook, etc. and I don't really believe the rumors. Chrislam _is_ a very small religion in Nigeria, and CARM has an article on it. But the idea (as I've heard it) that American churches (and Evangelical ones at that) are going Chris-lam is absurd, ten years after 9/11 and in general most Americans feel uncomfortable with Muslims (not just Islam) weather they admit it or not.


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## J. Dean

I looked up some stuff on it. Here's an article from apprising ministries.

THE RISE OF CHRISLAM? : Apprising Ministries


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## Joseph Scibbe

Sounds like a stupid heresy.


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## Bill The Baptist

pianoman said:


> So, I just heard about this thing called chrislam with churches putting the Quran in their pews. Anybody know why these people are locking arms with Islam, and what they are thinking? Of course, I've heard that Rick Warren apparently likes the idea of chrislam. It definitely seems like islam is and will be an issue in America



This sounds a bit crazy, but I wouldn't put anything past some of these liberal churches. If they would allow a gay man to be a pastor, why not a Quran in the pew? As far as Rick Warren supporting it, I haven't heard that. Of course if he did, he would vaguely deny it to John Piper, and then claim that he has never been anti-muslim on CNN, and then give a speech at an Arab League event, and then claim to be perplexed as to why people don't know where he stands.


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## pianoman

Bill The Baptist said:


> pianoman said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, I just heard about this thing called chrislam with churches putting the Quran in their pews. Anybody know why these people are locking arms with Islam, and what they are thinking? Of course, I've heard that Rick Warren apparently likes the idea of chrislam. It definitely seems like islam is and will be an issue in America
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This sounds a bit crazy, but I wouldn't put anything past some of these liberal churches. If they would allow a gay man to be a pastor, why not a Quran in the pew? As far as Rick Warren supporting it, I haven't heard that. Of course if he did, he would vaguely deny it to John Piper, and then claim that he has never been anti-muslim on CNN, and then give a speech at an Arab League event, and then claim to be perplexed as to why people don't know where he stands.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I don't even think Warren knows what he supports. I don't like wishy washiness.


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## VictorBravo

Moderation

Unless someone has firm evidence that Rick Warren, or any other well known pastor, supports merging Christianity with Islam, there is no point smearing such folks with speculation or innuendo.

The 9th commandment applies even when we are talking about people with whom we disagree.


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## Notthemama1984

Here is Warren asking Allah for forgiveness.

The Reformed Gadfly: Rick Warren: Asks for Allah's Forgiveness

Here is another article of Warren and Chrislam

Chrislam Starts To Spread In America


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## Michael

I hadn't heard the term "Chrislam" prior to seeing this thread, however I can tell you first hand that this stuff is really catching on. I have a friend who belongs to a very influential church here in Atlanta who is into it. She has gone on two mission trips to Kosovo spreading this type of gospel. Basically, the evangelistic presentation is that you can remain a Muslim if you just accept Christ as your savior. They love the Quran and all the biblical parallels. They see this as the next great movement. And politically speaking, they see this as an essential part of world peace.


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## PuritanCovenanter

I don't know if this matters but in the Arabic Bible Jesus is called the Son of Allah as Allah is the name for God. It was rather confusing to me when I first learned of this on the RBLIST. And here is a blog that tries to set things in a different light. I am not a Rick Warren fan but I am not quick to throw tomatoes either. BTW, the Q'ran is not the word of God and to claim it has inspiration and is useful in worship of the one true God is the old sin of idolatry.

My Response to Pastor Rick Warren Being Labeled a Chrislam | p341.com


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## Andres

Chaplainintraining said:


> Here is another article of Warren and Chrislam
> 
> Chrislam Starts To Spread In America



That website looks pretty sketchy, but I am curious as to when that article is from. I couldn't find a date, but I do remember when Warren spoke at the Islamic Society of North America's Annual Convention back in June 2009. I blogged about this 2 years ago and of course, Warren's supporters came out of the woodworks. I ended up writing a few more blog posts where I disputed Warren's supporters. If anyone's interested, PM me for the links.


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## Rufus

Michael said:


> I hadn't heard the term "Chrislam" prior to seeing this thread, however I can tell you first hand that this stuff is really catching on. I have a friend who belongs to a very influential church here in Atlanta who is into it. She has gone on two mission trips to Kosovo spreading this type of gospel. Basically, the evangelistic presentation is that you can remain a Muslim if you just accept Christ as your savior. They love the Quran and all the biblical parallels. They see this as the next great movement. And politically speaking, they see this as an essential part of world peace.



That's bizzare because if your a Muslim you have to reject Christ as God and affirm Muhammed as the final and greatest prophet, and the Quran supports that.


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## LawrenceU

I wonder if their Q'ran copies are actually an accurate translation. There is only one that has not been 'adjusted' in order to not offend Western sensibilities. It is a work done by Usama Dakdok. He is a native Arabic speaker who is a Christian. I have a copy and almost all of the other standard translations. The differences are remarkable. I was give it by a friend who is an Arabic (Palestinian) Christian. His family have been Christians for nearly 2000 years. He's from Nazareth, btw. I have had several other native Arabic speakers, both Christian and Muslim, tell me that it is much closer to the Arabic.


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## PuritanCovenanter

I don't understand your post Pastor U. Do you mean that the accurate Arabic translations of the scriptures don't use the Son of Allah as a translation for Jesus being the Son of God?


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## pianoman

Chaplainintraining said:


> Here is Warren asking Allah for forgiveness.
> 
> The Reformed Gadfly: Rick Warren: Asks for Allah's Forgiveness
> 
> Here is another article of Warren and Chrislam
> 
> Chrislam Starts To Spread In America




http://www.patriotactionnetwork.com/profiles/blogs/chrislam-spreads-throughout

There are several sources saying the same thing


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## LawrenceU

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I don't understand your post Pastor U. Do you mean that the accurate Arabic translations of the scriptures don't use the Son of Allah as a translation for Jesus being the Son of God?



No, I wasn't referring to that. Most of the differences that I have noted have to do with the true nature and motivation of Islam regarding 'infidels' and 'people of the book'. If you have an accurate translation you will quickly see that what is called 'extreme' Islam is actually a plain reading of the text.


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## PuritanCovenanter

LawrenceU said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your post Pastor U. Do you mean that the accurate Arabic translations of the scriptures don't use the Son of Allah as a translation for Jesus being the Son of God?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I wasn't referring to that. Most of the differences that I have noted have to do with the true nature and motivation of Islam regarding 'infidels' and 'people of the book'. If you have an accurate translation you will quickly see that what is called 'extreme' Islam is actually a plain reading of the text.
Click to expand...


Thanks Pastor. With that we agree. I don't know how others can't. It is pretty well documented.


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## Joseph Scibbe

Chaplainintraining said:


> Here is Warren asking Allah for forgiveness.
> 
> The Reformed Gadfly: Rick Warren: Asks for Allah's Forgiveness
> 
> Here is another article of Warren and Chrislam
> 
> Chrislam Starts To Spread In America



Now the end begins is a hyper fundamentalist website that I don't trust as far as I can throw. The document linked in the first site looks more like "Lets stop fighting with each other and blowing each other up and learn to live next to each other" not "We are the same religion". I highly doubt Warren is involved in the stupidity of chrislam.


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## LawrenceU

I, too, would be stunned. Head hunting high profile ministers is an easy game, and becoming more popular all the time. I wonder how some of the shooters would feel if the roles were reversed. It is true that many high profile ministers make gaffs, and even hold unsound theological positions. How many of us do the same?


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## Rufus

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is Warren asking Allah for forgiveness.
> 
> The Reformed Gadfly: Rick Warren: Asks for Allah's Forgiveness
> 
> Here is another article of Warren and Chrislam
> 
> Chrislam Starts To Spread In America
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Now the end begins is a hyper fundamentalist website that I don't trust as far as I can throw. The document linked in the first site looks more like "Lets stop fighting with each other and blowing each other up and learn to live next to each other" not "We are the same religion". I highly doubt Warren is involved in the stupidity of chrislam.
Click to expand...


Agreed, and I don't support Rick Warren nor have I read any of his books, or would I attend his church. The article also tags Warren on with those liberal churches that where having reconciliation meetings and what not. I've seen other bizarre things on websites like that.


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## PuritanCovenanter

That is why I posted this. 
My Response to Pastor Rick Warren Being Labeled a Chrislam | p341.com

I saw that the one site was a very Dispensational site and you know how the blogosphere is. Some people tend to just start posting links and commenting on things whether they are true or not. They just don't seem to take the time to check it out. I have probably been guilty of it myself before. I hope not though. I even check out my Dad's emails he sends to me using snopes.com. I can't believe all the stuff that is pawned off as truth in emails and blogs. Some of it is purely a violation of the Ninth Commandment.


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## Bill The Baptist

I agree that these accusations against Pastor Warren have no basis and are almost certainly false. The sad thing is that because he has often been so wishy washy, people tend to believe these kinds of stories about him. Regardless, we shouldn't make false accusations against anyone.


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## E Nomine

Jack Van Impe is so strongly convinced that Rick Warren and Robert Schuller are proponents of "Chrislam" that he has departed from the Trinity Broadcast Network. 

TV | Michigan televangelist storms off network | The Detroit News


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## Andres

Bill The Baptist said:


> I agree that these accusations against Pastor Warren have no basis and are almost certainly false. The sad thing is that because he has often been so wishy washy, people tend to believe these kinds of stories about him. Regardless, we shouldn't make false accusations against anyone.



The accusations against Warren are not completely without basis and/or false. As I mentioned, Warren did in fact speak at the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America in 2009. Here is an excerpt from an article on what Warren shared: 



> “I am not interested in interfaith dialogue but interfaith projects,” said the pastor of the 24,000-member Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., who is widely known for his bestseller “The Purpose-Driven Life.”
> 
> “Talk is cheap … but love is something we do together,” he added. “As the two largest faiths on this planet - more than 1 billion Muslims and 2 billion Christians - as Muslims and Christians, we must believe in this. As more than half the world, we must do something to model what it is to live in peace, to live in harmony.”
> 
> His 25-minute speech, which was met with light applause at several intervals, included three suggestions: create a coalition to end religious stereotyping, work together to restore civility to American society and take a common stand against attacks on freedom of religion and freedom of speech.



Now here's an excerpt from Warren himself where he attempts to explain why he speaks at these "interfaith" events: 


> We often receive letters asking, “Why is Pastor Rick speaking to this or that group?” It’s a great question that I want you to know the answer to. You may have noticed that outside of Saddleback Church, and our 30 year Purpose Driven Ministry to pastors, I do very little speaking to Christian groups of believers. Instead, I invest my time speaking to groups of unbelievers that most pastors never get the opportunity to share with. These are folks that Jesus died for, but would never enter a church to hear the Good News. Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Luke 5:31 (NIV) If you want to have a Christ-like ministry, you have to associate with the people Jesus did – unbelievers!



The problem I have with what Warren has said above is it's just not true. Warren may speak to groups of unbelievers, but he does not share the gospel with them. In fact, this is another excerpt from the first article: 


> Although he is an evangelical pastor, Mr. Warren was sparse in his mentions of Jesus and God. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet but not God incarnate.
> 
> “My deepest faith is in Jesus Christ,” the preacher said at one point. “I am committed not only to the good news but the common good. Scripture says ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ I am commanded to respect everybody.”


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## toddpedlar

PuritanCovenanter said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't understand your post Pastor U. Do you mean that the accurate Arabic translations of the scriptures don't use the Son of Allah as a translation for Jesus being the Son of God?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, I wasn't referring to that. Most of the differences that I have noted have to do with the true nature and motivation of Islam regarding 'infidels' and 'people of the book'. If you have an accurate translation you will quickly see that what is called 'extreme' Islam is actually a plain reading of the text.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks Pastor. With that we agree. I don't know how others can't. It is pretty well documented.
Click to expand...


My strong suspicion is that those who are into this apostate movement have read as much of the Qur'ans that are in their pews as they have the Bibles that are beside them.


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## J. Dean

Andres said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree that these accusations against Pastor Warren have no basis and are almost certainly false. The sad thing is that because he has often been so wishy washy, people tend to believe these kinds of stories about him. Regardless, we shouldn't make false accusations against anyone.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The accusations against Warren are not completely without basis and/or false. As I mentioned, Warren did in fact speak at the annual convention of the Islamic Society of North America in 2009. Here is an excerpt from an article on what Warren shared:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I am not interested in interfaith dialogue but interfaith projects,” said the pastor of the 24,000-member Saddleback Church in Lake Forest, Calif., who is widely known for his bestseller “The Purpose-Driven Life.”
> 
> “Talk is cheap … but love is something we do together,” he added. “As the two largest faiths on this planet - more than 1 billion Muslims and 2 billion Christians - as Muslims and Christians, we must believe in this. As more than half the world, we must do something to model what it is to live in peace, to live in harmony.”
> 
> His 25-minute speech, which was met with light applause at several intervals, included three suggestions: create a coalition to end religious stereotyping, work together to restore civility to American society and take a common stand against attacks on freedom of religion and freedom of speech.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Now here's an excerpt from Warren himself where he attempts to explain why he speaks at these "interfaith" events:
> 
> 
> 
> We often receive letters asking, “Why is Pastor Rick speaking to this or that group?” It’s a great question that I want you to know the answer to. You may have noticed that outside of Saddleback Church, and our 30 year Purpose Driven Ministry to pastors, I do very little speaking to Christian groups of believers. Instead, I invest my time speaking to groups of unbelievers that most pastors never get the opportunity to share with. These are folks that Jesus died for, but would never enter a church to hear the Good News. Jesus said, “It is not the healthy who need a doctor, but the sick. I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners." Luke 5:31 (NIV) If you want to have a Christ-like ministry, you have to associate with the people Jesus did – unbelievers!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The problem I have with what Warren has said above is it's just not true. Warren may speak to groups of unbelievers, but he does not share the gospel with them. In fact, this is another excerpt from the first article:
> 
> 
> 
> Although he is an evangelical pastor, Mr. Warren was sparse in his mentions of Jesus and God. Muslims believe Jesus was a prophet but not God incarnate.
> 
> “My deepest faith is in Jesus Christ,” the preacher said at one point. “I am committed not only to the good news but the common good. Scripture says ‘love your neighbor as yourself.’ I am commanded to respect everybody.”
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

+10

Rick Warren reminds me a lot of Phillip Doddridge, who was personally orthodox but often fraternized with unorthodox people to the point of giving the impression that he approved of their false teachings.

When you get into "interfaith" matters, you need to be very careful. It's not thar far a leap from dialogue to compromise.


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## Pergamum

LawrenceU said:


> I wonder if their Q'ran copies are actually an accurate translation. There is only one that has not been 'adjusted' in order to not offend Western sensibilities. It is a work done by Usama Dakdok. He is a native Arabic speaker who is a Christian. I have a copy and almost all of the other standard translations. The differences are remarkable. I was give it by a friend who is an Arabic (Palestinian) Christian. His family have been Christians for nearly 2000 years. He's from Nazareth, btw. I have had several other native Arabic speakers, both Christian and Muslim, tell me that it is much closer to the Arabic.



Many Muslims will tell you that there is no such thing as an accurate translation of the Qur'an because the Mother Book in Heaven is in Arabic and prayers and readings of the Qur'an should also be in Arabic.


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## LawrenceU

Pergamum said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder if their Q'ran copies are actually an accurate translation. There is only one that has not been 'adjusted' in order to not offend Western sensibilities. It is a work done by Usama Dakdok. He is a native Arabic speaker who is a Christian. I have a copy and almost all of the other standard translations. The differences are remarkable. I was give it by a friend who is an Arabic (Palestinian) Christian. His family have been Christians for nearly 2000 years. He's from Nazareth, btw. I have had several other native Arabic speakers, both Christian and Muslim, tell me that it is much closer to the Arabic.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Many Muslims will tell you that there is no such thing as an accurate translation of the Qur'an because the Mother Book in Heaven is in Arabic and prayers and readings of the Qur'an should also be in Arabic.
Click to expand...


Actually, that is what I get most of the time from 'devout' Muslims.


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## Julio Martinez Jr

James White's updated edition of _The King James Only Controversy: Can You Trust Modern Translations?_ has an excursus in the first chapter explaining the logical and historical inconsistency of the Qur'an and it's manuscript tradition. He shows that the Qur'an cannot be validated on its "accuracy" because Uthman burned all the other variant readings. This is what Dr. Aland (United Bible Society, to wit, *USB*) refers to when he speaks about the tenacity of the New Testament; we can know what the original reading of the NT is because of the large body of NT manuscripts and its variants. The Qur'an doesn't have this sort of accuracy since Uthman burned everything else which contradicted other Qurra (reciters). I hope this helps.


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## Joseph Scibbe

From Rick Warrens Twitter page about an hour ago:


> "Only a fool believes all he hears" Pr14:15. Help dispel the lie of #Chrislam -a foolish rumor. Jesus is the only Way.



Thanks for the correction. The 9th Commandment calls on us to be vigilant about the reputations of our neighbors. I would add that we must be ever more so about what we say about those with whom we already know we disagree. 

Take it from an old guy. It is VERY embarrassing to be called to account by someone against whom your hyperbole got the better of you.

As far as Warren goes, I hear him saying nothing more than the notion of co-belligerency, taking stands on common issues with people with whom you have major disagreements.

Remember, though, that Warren's D.Min. comes from a school that positions itself as offering a "third way" between liberal and conservative positions. The president of that school has done much in the way of "dialog" with Mormons, Muslims, and Jews. Warren's social agenda is global. And, in that venue, Franklin Graham is about the only guy I know of who still takes a firm rhetorical stand against Islam (one of the reasons I give money to Samaritan's Purse on occasion).


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## Southern Presbyterian

J. Dean said:


> Holy cow...



Umm... that would be Hinduism.


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## pianoman

Southern Presbyterian said:


> J. Dean said:
> 
> 
> 
> Holy cow...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Umm... that would be Hinduism.
Click to expand...


haha


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## JoannaV

Given the prevalence of the school of thought that goes somewhat like, "If you're a sincere Muslim/tribal-religionist/atheistic-seeker-after-truth you are saved", I am not so surprised.


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