# John Hagee: Jesus Did NOT Come to be the Messiah



## Dr Mike Kear

[video=youtube;F0CyolAOeWQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F0CyolAOeWQ&[/video]

What think ye?​


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## etexas

My....no blasphemy from Hagee.....(The room fogs up with irony)


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## Blueridge Believer

Saw this the other day brother. There is no end to this man's false teaching.


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## DMcFadden

Dare I say that I AM a premillennialist?


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## CDM

Sermonaudio:

Pastor Hagee Denies Jesus Christ as the Messiah! (Part 1) 

Brief Sermon Overviewastor John Hagee is now boldly & openly proclaiming that Jesus Christ was not the Messiah (the Christ)! Since Hagee is deeply involved with the current Illuminist leadership of Israel, this is mostly likely one of the final moves to deceive his followers (& whoever else will listen) into supporting the coming false messiah (Antichrist). In order to establish a solid foundation for this teaching the first part will be devoted to proving that modern day Israel is being totally controlled by Cabalistic Illuminists. An accurate description of these devils would be Revelation 3:9: 'I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.' The second part of this teaching will be devoted to refuting Hagee's new book (In Defense of Israel), in which he relentlessly twists Scripture in order to deceive his readers. The net effect is a perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some exact quotes from this book read: 'Jesus refused to produce a sign … because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah'. (p 138) 'The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews.' (p. 140) 'They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused.' (p. 141) 'Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed.' (p. 145) Hagee's own writings condemn him, especially in light of: 1 John 2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist...'​


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## Wannabee

John 4:25-26
The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.” 
Jesus said to her, “*I who speak to you am He.*”


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## Blueridge Believer

mangum said:


> Sermonaudio:
> 
> Pastor Hagee Denies Jesus Christ as the Messiah! (Part 1)
> 
> Brief Sermon Overviewastor John Hagee is now boldly & openly proclaiming that Jesus Christ was not the Messiah (the Christ)! Since Hagee is deeply involved with the current Illuminist leadership of Israel, this is mostly likely one of the final moves to deceive his followers (& whoever else will listen) into supporting the coming false messiah (Antichrist). In order to establish a solid foundation for this teaching the first part will be devoted to proving that modern day Israel is being totally controlled by Cabalistic Illuminists. An accurate description of these devils would be Revelation 3:9: 'I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.' The second part of this teaching will be devoted to refuting Hagee's new book (In Defense of Israel), in which he relentlessly twists Scripture in order to deceive his readers. The net effect is a perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some exact quotes from this book read: 'Jesus refused to produce a sign … because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah'. (p 138) 'The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews.' (p. 140) 'They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused.' (p. 141) 'Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed.' (p. 145) Hagee's own writings condemn him, especially in light of: 1 John 2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist...'​




Do you have any info on dr. Scott Johnson brother Chris? I can't seem to find anything about him over on sermon audo.


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## Sydnorphyn

Wannabee said:


> John 4:25-26
> The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
> Jesus said to her, “*I who speak to you am He.*”



case closed!!!


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## J. David Kear

So, Hagee is now denying a good portion of scripture in order to justify his defunct eschatology. He has thereby undermined the gospel itself.

How about when Jesus tells Pilate that the Jews have the greater sin in delivering him to Pilate? (John 19:11)

Or, When Peter and John say that the people of Israel were gathered with Pilate, Harod, and the Gentiles against “your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed”? (Acts 4:27, 28)

Does not Romans chapter 11 speak explicitly about the rejection of the Messiah by the Jews?

His add claims that his book will shake Christian theology. His book is a direct denial of Christian theology. 

John Hagee needs to repent of this grievous betrayal of Christianity and personal rejection of Christ, immediately!


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## lololong

Wolves in sheep clothing! 
However the sheep skin (outfit) of this one is of poor quality, the wolf is showing all over the place.
Hopefully the sheep around him will see this as well as stop being deceived.


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## CDM

Blueridge Baptist said:


> mangum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sermonaudio:
> 
> Pastor Hagee Denies Jesus Christ as the Messiah! (Part 1)
> 
> Brief Sermon Overviewastor John Hagee is now boldly & openly proclaiming that Jesus Christ was not the Messiah (the Christ)! Since Hagee is deeply involved with the current Illuminist leadership of Israel, this is mostly likely one of the final moves to deceive his followers (& whoever else will listen) into supporting the coming false messiah (Antichrist). In order to establish a solid foundation for this teaching the first part will be devoted to proving that modern day Israel is being totally controlled by Cabalistic Illuminists. An accurate description of these devils would be Revelation 3:9: 'I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie.' The second part of this teaching will be devoted to refuting Hagee's new book (In Defense of Israel), in which he relentlessly twists Scripture in order to deceive his readers. The net effect is a perversion of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Some exact quotes from this book read: 'Jesus refused to produce a sign … because it was not the Father's will, nor his, to be Messiah'. (p 138) 'The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah to the Jews.' (p. 140) 'They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused.' (p. 141) 'Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed.' (p. 145) Hagee's own writings condemn him, especially in light of: 1 John 2:22: Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist...'​
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you have any info on dr. Scott Johnson brother Chris? I can't seem to find anything about him over on sermon audo.
Click to expand...


No, sir I do not. Just what is found on sermonaudio. But, after listening a bit to a few of his clips he is aware of many policial entities and movements that the average preacher fed a diet of Fox[faux] news is not.


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## Herald

The church that founded us was studying a John Hagee book in Sunday School. My mother-in-law brought it my attention. I told her to give the book back to the teacher and excuse herself from his class. She did.


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## py3ak

What about, "Thou *art* the Christ". Put that together with, "Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-Jona for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but My Father which is in heaven."
(Matthew 16:16,17)

Did the Father reveal a lie to Simon in causing him to understand that Jesus was the Messiah (Christ)?


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## VaughanRSmith

Antichrist.

I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. 
(1Jn 2:21-23)


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## Josiah

I am glad that the lord brought me out of Hyper-dispensationalism. Im surprised, but not too surprised. How can he deny that Jesus never considered himself to be the messiah? If this were true, than to who'm are we to look? Are the OT prophecies about Christ being THE messiah wrong, or is John Hagee. wow.


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## PuritanCovenanter

Wow!


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## Devin

Un-be-liev-a-ble. How distorted.


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## Augusta

When did this start?? I had no idea. I used to really like Hagee in my Charismatic days.


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## puritan lad

If he won't repent, he should resign his position and become a Jewish Rabbi. His conversion to Judaism is nearly complete.


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## MrMerlin777

John Hagee has always struck me as one big fat idiot anyway(pardon the bluntness).

I never pay him any mind whatsoever.


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## Gloria

Yeah...saw this a few weeks ago on another message board. Quite crazy.


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## ReformedWretch

puritan lad said:


> If he won't repent, he should resign his position and become a Jewish Rabbi. His conversion to Judaism is nearly complete.


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## Ivan

Frankly I knew from the first time that I heard Hagee that he was a nut. Now he is a dangerous nut. I've never cared one iota for his ministry. Now he is leading people to hell.

What have other evangelical leaders said about this?


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## JoeRe4mer

That is just sick.


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## ANT

Very disapointing!

I knew he was in error with his teachings, but this is crazy!


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## shackleton

I have been reading books on "liberal" theology and churches lately and I have noticed that what they believe is not too far off from what the modern evangelical church has become of late. With him saying that Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah how is this any different from anything that comes out of the Jesus Seminar? Why is Hagee and Osteen and the like still considered to be legitimate teaching what they do? Is it because they give an altar call afterwards? It does not matter what you teach as long as you have a "heart for the lost?"
If he believes this I gaurantee he does not get salvation right and if not what good is he doing?


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## Blueridge Believer

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come. 
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, 
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good, 
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God; 
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away. 
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts, 
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. 
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith. 
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all [men], as theirs also was. 
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience, 
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of [them] all the Lord delivered me. 
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution. 
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived


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## Dr Mike Kear

I posted this video on a family blog and my sister, who was completely shocked, asked, "Do you think he's using this as an angle to get attention for book sales? Surely he does not literally believe what he's teasing the public with."

I answered:

_Do you think he's using this as an angle to get attention for book sales?_ 

The answer is yes, I think he's trying to get attention for his book sales.

_Surely he does not literally believe what he's teasing the public with._

Are we not supposed to take him at face value? He states, "It [his book] Scripturally proves that...Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah... Jesus refused by word and deed... to be the Messiah..." And at the same time he's saying these things, the rolling script on the screen actually prints out the words: "Jesus refused to be the Messiah." If he means this as a "tease" then he is a vile liar. I'll just take him at his word and believe that he is denying Jesus as the Christ (Messiah).

It seems to me that Hagee has left biblical Christianity and is attempting become some sort of pseudo-Jew. He's trying to become fully judaistic while pretending to still embrace the New Testament. However, once a person renounces Jesus as Christ, he can no longer be considered any type of authentic Christian.

My big question is: *How will the rest of his evangelical and charismatic peers react to his denial of Jesus as the Christ?* So far, there has been nothing but silence from people like Oral Roberts (who rightly denounced Carlton Pearson when he became a Universalist) or Kenneth Copeland (who often has Hagee on his show). Is the Charismatic Church going to simply accept that a person can be a "Christian" without accepting Jesus as the Messiah? 

The silence is deafening.


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## Dr Mike Kear

Some quotes from the book:

"Jesus refused to produce a sign because it was not the Father’s will, nor his, to be Messiah." (p 138)

"The Jews were not rejecting Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who was refusing to be the Messiah." (p. 140) 

"They wanted him to be their Messiah, but he flatly refused." (p. 141) 

"Jesus rejected to the last detail the role of Messiah in word or deed." (p. 145)


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## No Longer A Libertine

I hope congress audits the zionist fear mongrel.


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## shackleton

Is he confusing Messiah with king? As in Jesus did not come at that time to set himself up as king? Or is he twisitng this to mean what he wants it to mean?


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## SoCalReformed

It's past time that deceivers such as Hagee be exposed. Those, such as Kenneth Copeland and Benny Hinn, are also flat-out heretics.


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## toddpedlar

shackleton said:


> Is he confusing Messiah with king? As in Jesus did not come at that time to set himself up as king? Or is he twisitng this to mean what he wants it to mean?



I'd say the latter, no question. Hagee is a heretic of the worst kind, whose trajectory, as already has been noted, is taking him into Judaism. What ultimately is the cause is his unbelief - can it be anything other than that? He, like Demas, has loved another, and has departed. We need to be praying for the man; as far as I can tell he's on an express train bound for hell.


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## Anton Bruckner

brethren Haggee is an example of what happens when Churches are borne out of entrepreneurship. ("One man decides to start a church, where he is the end of all things that concerns that church, even doctrine").

This is why proper church government is necessary, with a board of elders that are actually endowed with power to enforce and discipline according to a system of beliefs (Creed and Church Constitution).

But like I said, Haggee is his church, therefore he has the power of a despot and a tyrrant, and not that of a servant of God, and as such he wields his power as a tyrrant and a despot by willingly using his pulpit to blaspheme Jesus because of his political relationships.


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## BobVigneault

I've watched this over and over this week. I worked very hard to build a rational critique of Mr. Hagee's ministry and revelations. I was going to make a list of why no believer should follow him or give him credence. It really all come down to one premise:

John Hagee is a BIG FAT LIAR!


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## Dr Mike Kear

My sister, on hearing about this, brought up Peter's confession in Matthew 16:16-17. *"Simon Peter answered and said, 'You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.' Jesus answered and said to him, 'Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jonah, for flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but My Father who is in heaven.'"*

Just think, if Hagee is right, then God _*lied*_ to Peter. And Jesus backed up the lie. Wow. If that isn't blasphemy, then I don't know what is.


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## calgal

I don't think he will be audited but he sure is dancing quickly down the road to hell.  And that is really tragic to see in any unbeliever.


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## caddy

A friend sent this back to me when He emailed Hagge's Group. This is how they replied. Discuss please:

We received an inquiry from you on a quote from Pastor’s new book “_In Defense of Israel_”. Accept our apologies for the delay in contacting you. Pastor has written a response to answer your concerns.
]We thank you for taking the time to contact us. May you and your family be blessed in all you do.


Jesus: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?​ 

Many Christians have constructed a catch 22 concerning Jesus as Messiah. The catch 22 is this: 
"Jesus came to be Messiah but because the Jews rejected Him as Messiah He had to go to the cross, hence the Jews are the Christ Killers." 

Fact: According to Webster's Dictionary the word "Messiah" means "the expected king who delivers from oppressors." A Messiah is one who rules and reigns over a given people.

Fact: The God of the Bible is absolutely sovereign! That means He is in control of everything in heaven and on earth all the time. If God is not sovereign; He can't be God. 

Question: What was God's Sovereign will for Jesus Christ from the foundations of the earth? 

Revelation 13:8 reads that Jesus Christ was the "Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world." This verse says it was God's Sovereign plan for Jesus to die as Savior before the world was created in Genesis 1:1. 

Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth. 

THERE IS NO DUAL COVENANT! The Bible says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Jesus Himself stated in Mark 14:8, Luke 24:46 and Mark 10:33-34 that He had come to die for the sins of the world as Savior. Again, you must live to be Messiah. You cannot be both Messiah and Savior! 

John the Baptist introduced Jesus as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). The only thing a lamb can do is to be slaughtered as a sin offering. 

Fact: Jesus claimed to be Savior several times in the Bible. He never claimed to be Messiah to the Jewish people. In John 4 Jesus told the woman at the well, a Gentile, who He was, knowing the Jews and Samaritans had nothing to do with each other. I go into this in great detail in my latest book, _"In Defense of Israel." _

Fact: Jesus repeatedly in His ministry told His Disciples and followers to "tell no one" about His supernatural accomplishments. If Jesus wanted to be Messiah by popular demand, He would have wanted His supernatural exploits to be told by everyone to spread His popularity. 

Sixty-four times in the four Gospels Jesus instructed those who were excited about His being the Messiah to "tell no one." He refused the role. He never promised to be Messiah. The Jews did not reject Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who refused to be the reigning Messiah because it was God's Sovereign will for Him to die on the cross. 

Fact: Bible proof that Jesus did not come to be Messiah is found in Matthew 26:26-30 where Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was celebrating Passover with His 12 Disciples in what Christians call "The Lord's Supper." 

In the Passover there are five cups of wine that Jesus and His Disciples would drink together. These five cups have been and still are celebrated by observant Jews who keep the Passover. 

The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28, Jesus claims to be the Savior of the world by saying, "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin." 

In the next verse, Luke 26:29, Jesus rejects the Messiah's Cup saying, "But I say unto you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom." 

Jesus rejected the Messiah's Cup because He knew He was about to die. He promised His Disciples that He would drink the Messiah's Cup when He returns to earth the second time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. 

Fact: If an Almighty and Sovereign God sent His Son into the world the first time to be Messiah...God failed! The truth is, God cannot fail...never.
Jesus was sent to the earth the first time to die as the Lamb of God.

I trust this simple explanation will clarify any concerns you might have concerning Jesus the Messiah and Jesus the Savior. Let us prepare for the soon coming of King Jesus, our Deliverer and Lord of Lords. It will be very soon!


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## Stephen

It will be interesting to see if the Assemblies of God bring discipline against this heretic, like they did against the Bakers & Swaggert. Of course he could go independent, take his congregation and move to a jungle and have a communion service. Beware of false prophets (profits) who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits (Matthew 7:15). There is a sucker born every day.


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## J. David Kear

> Jesus: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?



Hagee is propagating a false dichotomy.



> The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28



What Bible has a Luke chapter 26? (This could indicate a problem)



> Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth.



Hello? Is he saying that Jesus is not currently living and reigning?


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## Richard King

"post removed"


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## caddy

J. David Kear said:


> Jesus: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hagee is propagating a false dichotomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What Bible has a Luke chapter 26? (This could indicate a problem)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Hello? Is he saying that Jesus is not currently living and reigning?
Click to expand...

 
I think most everything he says presents a problem.


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## MrMerlin777

Hagee is simply following his extreem form of dispensationalism to it's logical conclusion. 

Heresy, Yes! Suprising, No!


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## DMcFadden

Richard King said:


> Hagee may already be "independent".
> 
> He did leave his previous church when he 'upgraded' to a new wife and since that was not okay with his previous church he just went and started a new one.



On August 26, 1960, Hagee married Martha E Hagee. They had two children, Christopher and Tish. In October 1966, Hagee founded Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas. Hagee resigned his pastorate in May 1975. Hagee and his wife divorced in September 1975. On Mother's Day of 1975, Hagee founded Castle Hills Assembly, later known as the Church of Castle Hills. On April 12, 1976, Hagee married Diana M. Castro, a 24-year-old former congregant at Trinity Church. Hagee's three children with his second wife Diana Castro Hagee are Christina, Matthew and Sandy. Matthew is working on his Master's Degree in Theology and is the Associate Pastor of Cornerstone Church


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## JasonGoodwin

Sydnorphyn said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> John 4:25-26
> The woman said to Him, “I know that Messiah is coming” (who is called Christ). “When He comes, He will tell us all things.”
> Jesus said to her, “*I who speak to you am He.*”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> case closed!!!
Click to expand...

_*Exactly!!!*_


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## JasonGoodwin

caddy said:


> A friend sent this back to me when He emailed Hagge's Group. This is how they replied. Disucss please:
> 
> We received an inquiry from you on a quote from Pastor’s new book “_In Defense of Israel_”. Accept our apologies for the delay in contacting you. Pastor has written a response to answer your concerns.
> ]We thank you for taking the time to contact us. May you and your family be blessed in all you do.
> 
> 
> Jesus: MESSIAH OR SAVIOR?​
> 
> Many Christians have constructed a catch 22 concerning Jesus as Messiah. The catch 22 is this:
> "Jesus came to be Messiah but because the Jews rejected Him as Messiah He had to go to the cross, hence the Jews are the Christ Killers."
> 
> Fact: According to Webster's Dictionary the word "Messiah" means "the expected king who delivers from oppressors." A Messiah is one who rules and reigns over a given people.
> 
> Fact: The God of the Bible is absolutely sovereign! That means He is in control of everything in heaven and on earth all the time. If God is not sovereign; He can't be God.
> 
> Question: What was God's Sovereign will for Jesus Christ from the foundations of the earth?
> 
> Revelation 13:8 reads that Jesus Christ was the "Lamb of God slain from the foundations of the world." This verse says it was God's Sovereign plan for Jesus to die as Savior before the world was created in Genesis 1:1.
> 
> Most people confuse the role of "Messiah" and "Savior." To be Messiah you must live. To rule and reign you must live. Jesus came to die and be the Savior of every person on earth.
> 
> THERE IS NO DUAL COVENANT! The Bible says, "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).
> 
> Jesus Himself stated in Mark 14:8, Luke 24:46 and Mark 10:33-34 that He had come to die for the sins of the world as Savior. Again, you must live to be Messiah. You cannot be both Messiah and Savior!
> 
> John the Baptist introduced Jesus as the "Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world" (John 1:29). The only thing a lamb can do is to be slaughtered as a sin offering.
> 
> Fact: Jesus claimed to be Savior several times in the Bible. He never claimed to be Messiah to the Jewish people. In John 4 Jesus told the woman at the well, a Gentile, who He was, knowing the Jews and Samaritans had nothing to do with each other. I go into this in great detail in my latest book, _"In Defense of Israel." _
> 
> Fact: Jesus repeatedly in His ministry told His Disciples and followers to "tell no one" about His supernatural accomplishments. If Jesus wanted to be Messiah by popular demand, He would have wanted His supernatural exploits to be told by everyone to spread His popularity.
> 
> Sixty-four times in the four Gospels Jesus instructed those who were excited about His being the Messiah to "tell no one." He refused the role. He never promised to be Messiah. The Jews did not reject Jesus as Messiah; it was Jesus who refused to be the reigning Messiah because it was God's Sovereign will for Him to die on the cross.
> 
> Fact: Bible proof that Jesus did not come to be Messiah is found in Matthew 26:26-30 where Jesus, a Jewish Rabbi, was celebrating Passover with His 12 Disciples in what Christians call "The Lord's Supper."
> 
> In the Passover there are five cups of wine that Jesus and His Disciples would drink together. These five cups have been and still are celebrated by observant Jews who keep the Passover.
> 
> The fifth cup is the Messiah's Cup. Luke 26:28, Jesus claims to be the Savior of the world by saying, "For this is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sin."
> 
> In the next verse, Luke 26:29, Jesus rejects the Messiah's Cup saying, "But I say unto you, I will not drink of this fruit of the vine from now on until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's Kingdom."
> 
> Jesus rejected the Messiah's Cup because He knew He was about to die. He promised His Disciples that He would drink the Messiah's Cup when He returns to earth the second time as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.
> 
> Fact: If an Almighty and Sovereign God sent His Son into the world the first time to be Messiah...God failed! The truth is, God cannot fail...never.
> Jesus was sent to the earth the first time to die as the Lamb of God.
> 
> I trust this simple explanation will clarify any concerns you might have concerning Jesus the Messiah and Jesus the Savior. Let us prepare for the soon coming of King Jesus, our Deliverer and Lord of Lords. It will be very soon!


I'm not an expert in exegesis, but even your simple layman fed with an ounce of discernment ought to know that this is some of the worst exegesis coming from a "conservative" minister -- and that's putting it kindly.

Perhaps someone should remind him of Galatians 1:6-10

Oh, BTW. In one year, Hagee raked in close to US$1M in compensation. See this: Freegoodnews.com: Reformation: Christian Scum and Pastor John Hagee of Cornerstone Church in San Antonio


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## Richard King

DMcFadden said:


> Richard King said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hagee may already be "independent".
> 
> He did leave his previous church when he 'upgraded' to a new wife and since that was not okay with his previous church he just went and started a new one.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On August 26, 1960, Hagee married Martha E Hagee. They had two children, Christopher and Tish. In October 1966, Hagee founded Trinity Church in San Antonio, Texas. Hagee resigned his pastorate in May 1975. Hagee and his wife divorced in September 1975. On Mother's Day of 1975, Hagee founded Castle Hills Assembly, later known as the Church of Castle Hills. On April 12, 1976, Hagee married Diana M. Castro, a 24-year-old former congregant at Trinity Church. Hagee's three children with his second wife Diana Castro Hagee are Christina, Matthew and Sandy. Matthew is working on his Master's Degree in Theology and is the Associate Pastor of Cornerstone Church
Click to expand...



My brief and terse summary was based on the explanation given by an elder who was at Trinity Church back when this was going on. 
He says there was a period of attempted counsel from leaders in the church before this pastor actually left.
Since I don't have permission to quote his name I will withdraw my post.


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## Kevin

This just makes me feel sad. I always knew that JH was a bit nutty, but this kind of apostasy...

Let us pray for those elect who are influenced by his ministry, that God will keep them from error.


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## JasonGoodwin

I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier about John Hagee. Would I be too far off the mark to call him a Modalist?

Dr. Matt and others, would you agree?


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## JoeRe4mer

JasonGoodwin said:


> I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier about John Hagee. Would I be too far off the mark to call him a Modalist?
> 
> Dr. Matt and others, would you agree?



Its hard to say just from that if he is or is not a Modalist. Basically modern Modalists (Oneness Pentecostals) and others say that *Jesus IS the Father*. It appears that John Hagee is saying that Jesus is NOT the Messiah which is just as bad, but I do think he would probably recognize the *distinct person hood *of Christ, which Modalists fundamentally deny. 
At any rate he is still going to  hell if he does not repent of this heresy.


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## Calvin'scuz

The really sad part about this is that many of his flock will just accept what he says. They'll sit there and nod and amen him to death while they're underlining in their bibles. They don't think for themselves and very few will check his statements against Scripture. My brother and sister in law fall for this stuff. They feel that if they check out his teaching with an eye for the truth, they are "doubting God's anointed." I'm sick of hearing how all these Charismatics are "anointed men/women of God" while they just keep preaching heresy. It breaks my heart one minute, and makes me furious the next. How dare they!!!


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## JoeRe4mer

I agree with you Jim. I have a very hard time understanding how so many could be lead astray by Hagee's false teachings especially in light of what the scripture says about Jesus' position as the Christ or (Messiah). I also question the standing of those who would willingly subject themselves to such teachings. Their souls are in just as much danger as his.


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## CDM

JoeRe4mer said:


> I agree with you Jim. I have a very hard time understanding how so many could be lead astray by Hagee's false teachings especially in light of what the scripture says about Jesus' position as the Christ or (Messiah). I also question the standing of those who would willingly subject themselves to such teachings. Their souls are in just as much danger as his.



You have trouble understanding why a bunch of people don't believe Jesus is the Messiah? These unbelievers are being led exactly where they want to go.

Most of the world falls in this category.


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## C. Matthew McMahon

JasonGoodwin said:


> I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier about John Hagee. Would I be too far off the mark to call him a Modalist?
> 
> Dr. Matt and others, would you agree?


 
Its more a matter of seeing him as denying Jesus Christ (Christ = the annointed one or messiah (??)) as the Messiah. One could believe in the Father, Son and Spirit and deny the incarnation as the Son coming as the Messiah and not be a modalist.


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## Contra_Mundum

I smell a Wild Boar News Podcast cooking.


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## JoeRe4mer

mangum said:


> JoeRe4mer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with you Jim. I have a very hard time understanding how so many could be lead astray by Hagee's false teachings especially in light of what the scripture says about Jesus' position as the Christ or (Messiah). I also question the standing of those who would willingly subject themselves to such teachings. Their souls are in just as much danger as his.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You have trouble understanding why a bunch of people don't believe Jesus is the Messiah? These unbelievers are being led exactly where they want to go.
> 
> Most of the world falls in this category.
Click to expand...


I do _understand_ very well why men reject Christ. What I was trying to say is that most people who follow him claim to be Christians, yet they turn a blind eye to his teachings. I was marveling at their hypocrisy and inconsistency with the scriptures. If you saw the rest of my post I made it clear that I question their standing and I said that their souls are in danger. Perhaps _understand _was the wrong word to use to express my point though thanks for the correction I will be more careful with my wording next time.


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## JasonGoodwin

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> JasonGoodwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier about John Hagee. Would I be too far off the mark to call him a Modalist?
> 
> Dr. Matt and others, would you agree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its more a matter of seeing him as denying Jesus Christ (Christ = the annointed one or messiah (??)) as the Messiah. One could believe in the Father, Son and Spirit and deny the incarnation as the Son coming as the Messiah and not be a modalist.
Click to expand...


So it could be an obviously flawed dualism. 

Whatever the classification, it's not Scriptural by any means.


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## C. Matthew McMahon

JasonGoodwin said:


> C. Matthew McMahon said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JasonGoodwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know why I didn't think about this earlier about John Hagee. Would I be too far off the mark to call him a Modalist?
> 
> Dr. Matt and others, would you agree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Its more a matter of seeing him as denying Jesus Christ (Christ = the annointed one or messiah (??)) as the Messiah. One could believe in the Father, Son and Spirit and deny the incarnation as the Son coming as the Messiah and not be a modalist.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So it could be an obviously flawed dualism.
> 
> Whatever the classification, it's not Scriptural by any means.
Click to expand...

 
Not remotely Scriptural. Its not his only flaw.


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## Contra_Mundum

Contra_Mundum said:


> I smell a Wild Boar News Podcast cooking.


WIY-ULD BOAR!
WIY-ULD BOAR!
WIY-ULD BOAR!
WIY-ULD BOAR!
WIY-ULD BOAR!
WIY-ULD BOAR!

I thought a chant would be nice...


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## No Longer A Libertine

Contra_Mundum said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I smell a Wild Boar News Podcast cooking.
> 
> 
> 
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> 
> I thought a chant would be nice...
Click to expand...

Hagee does rather look like a succulent pig now that you mention it.


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## Kevin

Contra_Mundum said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I smell a Wild Boar News Podcast cooking.
> 
> 
> 
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> 
> I thought a chant would be nice...
Click to expand...




Great idea!!!!


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## JasonGoodwin

No Longer A Libertine said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I smell a Wild Boar News Podcast cooking.
> 
> 
> 
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> WIY-ULD BOAR!
> 
> I thought a chant would be nice...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Hagee does rather look like *a succulent pig* now that you mention it.
Click to expand...

Well, since you mentioned it, considering the OT dietary laws, that makes him unclean. Having said that, that should also apply to his "theology" (if that's what you want to call it).


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## JasonGoodwin

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> JasonGoodwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> C. Matthew McMahon said:
> 
> 
> 
> Its more a matter of seeing him as denying Jesus Christ (Christ = the annointed one or messiah (??)) as the Messiah. One could believe in the Father, Son and Spirit and deny the incarnation as the Son coming as the Messiah and not be a modalist.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So it could be an obviously flawed dualism.
> 
> Whatever the classification, it's not Scriptural by any means.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Not remotely Scriptural. Its not his only flaw.
Click to expand...


Well, I know that his gross errors are not a laughing matter, but the fact that you magnified it exponentially made me  with you -- not at you.

BTW, I know this is , but I have something to share with the Board on Country/World News. Looks like our boy Ricky Warren is at it again.


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## danmpem

What the junk??? I have always been a little hazy on what Hagee REALLY believes, because nothing I have ever seen of his in the bookstores ever made much sense to me. But this is just ridiculous. So ridiculous I just might have to read it and see it for myself.


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## JasonGoodwin

danmpem said:


> What the junk??? I have always been a little hazy on what Hagee REALLY believes, because nothing I have ever seen of his in the bookstores ever made much sense to me. But this is just ridiculous. So ridiculous I just might have to read it and see it for myself.


Read it if you wish, but I'm not sure if you'll be able to stomach reading all of his material. I can only handle reading so much false teaching before I feel like  literally. (Kenneth Copeland comes to mind as well.)


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## BJClark

Maybe they have been shocked into silence, trying to figure out what the heck he is doing..

I honestly don't know why I am surprised, I've known for years he was a wolf in sheeps clothing; but I guess it is the blantly throwing the wool off his back that surprises so many of us...but it is in God's timing, that the Hagee followers will either continue to follow the man or they will begin to turn to the one True God..

There will be many of his followers who will be dismayed not knowing where to turn..many will be turning away from Church bodies altogether, in fear of being deceived yet again, by a man...while others will be searching either for another man to follow, or for churches and pastors who teach the truth..so we need to be ready to invite them in to drink and sup with us...


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