# Who Was James?



## Richard Miller (Jun 14, 2018)

I intend to start preaching soon on James. I was reading some commentaries recently, and something struck me. In Manton's commentary on James (http://www.grace-ebooks.com/library/Thomas Manton/TM_An Exposition of the Epistle of James.pdf), his opening bit is:

_James. There were two people of this name—the son of Zebedee, and the son of Alphaeus (James the Less); the latter is the author of this letter. Many of the ancients thought that there was a third person called James—James the brother of the Lord, also called Chobliham, or Oblias, or James the Just, who they thought was not an apostle but Bishop of Jerusalem._

I always thought that there were 3 people named James, and that The Lord's (half?)brother was not one of the original 12, unlike the other 2 guys named James. Maybe I'm wrong! 

I guess my reason for thinking this is that John 7:5 says that Jesus' brother didn't believe in Him. Christ had already called His disciples at this point, so that kind of lead me to believe that this James was not one of the twelve. I'm also aware of verses like Acts 1:14, 1 Cor 15:7, and Gal 1:19.

What's your take? What do you think?


----------



## Contra_Mundum (Jun 14, 2018)

Manton may have held the opinion that "James the Lord's brother," Gal.1:19, was "James the Less," and indicated a relative (cousin). The terms we use in modern English to differentiate clannish relational connections are not always available in other languages.

That said, Manton's opinion isn't authoritative, and you should feel free to dissent from it. For some who continue to hold the view that Mary remained a virgin after Jesus' birth (which was not uncommon among the Reformers and subsequent generations like Manton's, not a boat worth rocking--given everything else that was important), the solution that James was a relative, and so Alphaeus was thought a brother to Joseph or Mary (or something further), this was no more speculative than any other solution.

I think this James (and Jude, see v1) were half-brothers to Jesus. You'll have to make up your own mind, reading the opinions of various scholars.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 3


----------



## Bill The Baptist (Jun 14, 2018)

Contra_Mundum said:


> not a boat worth rocking--given everything else that was important).



Seeing what this unnecessary and unfounded doctrine has led to (immaculate conception of Mary, assumption of Mary, status as co-redemtrix) I would say that it was a boat worth rocking.


----------



## Dachaser (Jun 15, 2018)

Richard Miller said:


> I intend to start preaching soon on James. I was reading some commentaries recently, and something struck me. In Manton's commentary on James (http://www.grace-ebooks.com/library/Thomas Manton/TM_An Exposition of the Epistle of James.pdf), his opening bit is:
> 
> _James. There were two people of this name—the son of Zebedee, and the son of Alphaeus (James the Less); the latter is the author of this letter. Many of the ancients thought that there was a third person called James—James the brother of the Lord, also called Chobliham, or Oblias, or James the Just, who they thought was not an apostle but Bishop of Jerusalem._
> 
> ...


James was the half brother to Jesus, who was head of the Jerusalem Church, and was called an Apostle in the scriptures.


----------



## VictorBravo (Jun 15, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> James was the half brother to Jesus, who was head of the Jerusalem Church, and was called an Apostle in the scriptures.



David, You are going all _ipse dixit_ again.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ipse dixit

Reactions: Like 5 | Amen 1


----------



## Dachaser (Jun 15, 2018)

VictorBravo said:


> David, You are going all _ipse dixit_ again.
> 
> https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ipse dixit


I do not understand, as the Bible states to us James was Jesus half brother, was head/pastor over the Jerusalem church, and he was called an Apostle by Paul Himself.


----------



## VictorBravo (Jun 15, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> I do not understand, as the Bible states to us James was Jesus half brother, was head/pastor over the Jerusalem church, and he was called an Apostle by Paul Himself.



David, I happen to agree with you about James, but the thread asked a question regarding how it is not explicitly clear that the author of James was actually Jesus' brother. It's the fact that not everyone agrees with this that is under discussion.

So your answer to the question missed the point. 

Let me lay it out more plainly:

Question: "Some scholars give reasons to say that James the apostle was not the same James as Jesus' half brother. How do we deal with this?"

David's answer: "James was Jesus' half brother."

See how your answer comes across as "because I said so."? That's why it is not really an answer.

Hope that helps.

Reactions: Like 5


----------



## Dachaser (Jun 16, 2018)

VictorBravo said:


> David, I happen to agree with you about James, but the thread asked a question regarding how it is not explicitly clear that the author of James was actually Jesus' brother. It's the fact that not everyone agrees with this that is under discussion.
> 
> So your answer to the question missed the point.
> 
> ...


Thanks, makes sense to me now. Are they saying that they do not think the James that the bible states was Jesus half brother and was stated to be head of the Jerusalem Church was an Apostle?


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Jun 16, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> Thanks, makes sense to me now. Are they saying that they do not think the James that the bible states was Jesus half brother and was stated to be head of the Jerusalem Church was an Apostle?


David,

I think what is being said and what you are overlooking is that more than just a statement is needed. How about providing some Scriptural support, including some exegesis (your own or some exact pointers to some that you find compelling) of all contexts related to the topic? Just saying "_the bible states_" is necessary, but not sufficient until you can demonstrate that what "the bible states" and what you state the Bible states are in alignment.

In other words, in discussions wherein the topic is clearly one of division or disagreement, more than naked assertions are required. After all, one presupposes the reader here actually has read what the Bible says, yet the interpretation of said readings underlies the disagreement or division that is being discussed. More heavy-lifting on your part is what is being pointed out to you herein.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Dachaser (Jun 16, 2018)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> David,
> 
> I think what is being said and what you are overlooking is that more than just a statement is needed. How about providing some Scriptural support, including some exegesis (your own or some exact pointers to some that you find compelling) of all contexts related to the topic? Just saying "_the bible states_" is necessary, but not sufficient until you can demonstrate that what "the bible states" and what you state the Bible states are in alignment.
> 
> In other words, in discussions wherein the topic is clearly one of division or disagreement, more than naked assertions are required. After all, one presupposes the reader here actually has read what the Bible says, yet the interpretation of said readings underlies the disagreement or division that is being discussed. More heavy-lifting on your part is what is being pointed out to you herein.


Galatians 1:19, Acts 15, Galatians 2:9,1 Corinthians 15:7.
These verses when harmonized together show to us that James at first did not believe in Jesus as Lord, did when Jesus appeared to him after the Resurrection, became pastor and head of the Jerusalem Church, and also was seen as being an Apostle along side the likes of John and Peter.
He would not have been the one mentioned as one of the 12 Apostles of the lord, and would have been the one thrown off the temple peak .


----------



## VictorBravo (Jun 16, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> Galatians 1:19, Acts 15, Galatians 2:9,1 Corinthians 15:7.
> These verses when harmonized together show to us that James at first did not believe in Jesus as Lord, did when Jesus appeared to him after the Resurrection, became pastor and head of the Jerusalem Church, and also was seen as being an Apostle along side the likes of John and Peter.
> He would not have been the one mentioned as one of the 12 Apostles of the lord, and would have been the one thrown off the temple peak .



Nice, as far as it goes, David. But remember, the original question dealt with the author of the book of James--and the assertion that it was *not* the Bishop of Jerusalem who wrote it.

That's where the discussion began. Can you find something that tells us the James you are talking about also wrote the book of James, instead of James son of Alphaeus?


----------



## Dachaser (Jun 19, 2018)

VictorBravo said:


> Nice, as far as it goes, David. But remember, the original question dealt with the author of the book of James--and the assertion that it was *not* the Bishop of Jerusalem who wrote it.
> 
> That's where the discussion began. Can you find something that tells us the James you are talking about also wrote the book of James, instead of James son of Alphaeus?


One of the James mentioned to have been following Jesus was killed in around 44 AD, so doubt that was the author, and the other James mentioned, son of Alphaeus, has barely any history of him in the scriptures.
For the early church to have received as scripture the book of James, being perhaps one of the earliest ones in the NT Canon, would have needed someone seen with Apostolic authority behind it, and that would much better fit the pastor/ruler James of the Jerusalem Church.


----------



## Smeagol (Jun 23, 2018)

"I am confused now as well.
I thought the scripture does mention 4 people by the name of James in the NT.
1. James son of Zebedee (listed as an apostle)
2.James son Of Alphaeus (listed as an apostle)
3. James the half brother of Jesus (latter called an apostle, possibly in the same way as Paul)
4. James father of Judas

If there is error in my undersatanding, please help. My Elder shared with me the following:

“””Also see below from DA Carson
“There are at least four: (1) James the son of Zebedee, brother of John, one of the Twelve (see, e.g., Mark 1:19; 5:37; 9:2; 10:35; 14:33); (2) James the son of Alphaeus, also one of the Twelve (see Mark 3:18, perhaps the same as “James the younger” in Mark 15:40); (3) James the father of Judas (Luke 6:16); (4) James, “the Lord’s brother” (Gal. 1:19), who plays a leading role in the early Jerusalem church (see Acts 12:17; 15:13; 21:18).”
D.A. Carson, New Testament Introduction”””

I tend to lean towards the letter being written my James the brother of our Lord. But not a hill to die on as long as its canonicity is not challenged!"

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Jun 23, 2018)

Grant.Jones said:


> I am confused now as well.
> I thought the scripture does mention 4 people by the name of James in the NT.
> ...
> If there is error in my understanding, please help.


You are correct.

The writer of the letter identifies himself simply as "James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ" (1:1). The English name comes from the Latin Jacomus via old French Gemnies. The Greek name it translates, Iakobos, occurs forty-two times in the NT and refers *to at least four different men*. Three of them are mentioned in one verse, Acts 1:13: "_When they arrived, they went upstairs to the room where they were staying. Those present were Peter, John, James and Andrew; Philip and Thomas, Bartholomew and Matthew; James son of Alphaeus and Simon the Zealot, and Judas son of James_." James the father of Judas is mentioned only here and in Luke 6:16 in the NT. His name occurs only because there is a need to distinguish this particular Judas from the better-known Judas Iscariot.

Douglas J. Moo. _The Letter of James_​
By the way, Moo does a swell job examining the arguments for and against James, the Lord's brother, being the author of the book, while also rejecting pseudepigraphical arguments, landing with the view that the Lord's brother is the only reasonable conclusion. Fortuitously for those not owning the book, the Amazon _Look Inside_ preview of the hardcover version includes Moo's examination of the issues.


----------



## Scottish Presbyterian (Jun 23, 2018)

Is there a strong reason for believing Joseph and Alphaeus were not the same person?


----------



## Ed Walsh (Jun 24, 2018)

VictorBravo said:


> David, You are going all _ipse dixit_ again.





Dachaser said:


> I do not understand, as the Bible states to us James was Jesus half brother,





VictorBravo said:


> So your answer to the question missed the point.
> Let me lay it out more plainly:
> Question: "Some scholars give reasons to say that James the apostle was not the same James as Jesus' half brother. How do we deal with this?"
> David's answer: "James was Jesus' half brother."
> See how your answer comes across as "because I said so."? That's why it is not really an answer.



Given this little interchange, what pocket-sized guide (if there is such a thing) would you recommend that deals with these and other common logical fallacies? Something on the lighter, perhaps humorous side.


----------



## VictorBravo (Jun 24, 2018)

Ed Walsh said:


> Given this little interchange, what pocket-sized guide (if there is such a thing) would you recommend that deals with these and other common logical fallacies? Something on the lighter, perhaps humorous side.



I don't know of one, Ed. It would be fun to have such a thing.


----------



## Ed Walsh (Jun 24, 2018)

VictorBravo said:


> I don't know of one, Ed. It would be fun to have such a thing.



Here's a short thread from the PB titled: *Logic and Fallacies*, from 2011 which mentions some resources. It reminded me of the secondary book Bahnsen might have used: *Mastering Logical Fallacies: The Definitive Guide to Flawless Rhetoric and Bulletproof Logic.* It looks good although the title doesn't ring a bell in my mind. Maybe someone else will know for sure.


----------

