# CollegePlus!



## Brother John (Nov 13, 2008)

*The thread about CollegePlus! 

CollegePlus! - Home

I am considering finishing my degree with College Plus and I wanted to hear from anyone on the PB that is using the program, thinking about it, or has already graduated through College Plus. What has been your experience with College Plus? How has it worked for you? Please post any comments about College Plus. 

I hope that this thread can serve as a place to discuss College Plus and for those PBers who use the program I hope it can give them a place to interact.*


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Nov 14, 2008)

I haven't actually used it (considered it though), but if you want, I can give your e-mail to the CollegePlus! mentor at my church so he can get in touch with you about it. 

PM me if you're interested.


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## Brother John (Nov 14, 2008)

I sat through an online webinar last night and learned allot about how it works. One way or another I think I will be going to Thomas Edison State College. I am going to go buy the "Accelerated Distance Learning" book tomorrow. I think that the coaching from College Plus would be great for a younger new student. I am going to look into using the ADL strategy without the coaching. I just don't have it in our budget to pay for coaching when I have already completed three years of school in the past. My hope is to finish quickly using as many CLEPS/DANTES tests as possible so that I can restart my seminary training. 

Either way I think this is the way to go to school. I hope others find out about it and we use this in the christian community.


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## CharlieJ (Nov 14, 2008)

I looked into it. I have a friend who works for them. I admit, I'm pretty skeptical. The system in large part works by allowing you to get credit for things you wouldn't normally get credit for, like work experience.

Also, the CLEP system is great for advanced students who really already know the material, but if you are actually planning on getting an education, there is a world of difference between good liberal arts education and learning to pass a standardized test. I know, because I teach standardized test prep.

I think the end result is that you get a degree that isn't worth much. It seems that CollegePlus! view college degrees as annoyances - a check mark on life preparation. It smacks of an extremely utilitarian view of education. I believe that good education demands much from students, especially in terms of abstract thinking, critical reasoning, and clear written expression. I also believe that seminar and tutuorial style discussions contribute greatly to a person's intellectual development. The quality of the professor is worth more than anything else. 

I highly doubt that Thomas Edison State College, being unranked by US News & World Report and charging extremely low tuition, is offering any kind of decent education. Why not go to community college?

It might be a great idea for a businessperson who could up their salary 15K by getting some kind of certification. But, I don't think the program is going to promote healthy life-learners.


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Nov 15, 2008)

CharlieJ said:


> I looked into it. I have a friend who works for them. I admit, I'm pretty skeptical. The system in large part works by allowing you to get credit for things you wouldn't normally get credit for, like work experience.
> 
> Also, the CLEP system is great for advanced students who really already know the material, but if you are actually planning on getting an education, there is a world of difference between good liberal arts education and learning to pass a standardized test. I know, because I teach standardized test prep.
> 
> ...



Forgive me for disagreeing, but I have a few issues with what you are saying. First of all, what is wrong with getting credit for life experience? If a person gains experience in, say, accounting, through a summer job at a friend's business, why should he have to take a class to learn what he already knows? In my opinion, it is an excellent idea to offer credit for _proven_ life experience (i.e. reports of work done, photocopies, etc.).

Second, much of a "liberal arts education" is garbage anyway! The first two years of almost any degree consists of basically the same general courses, such as calculus, natural science, etc. Which is the more sensible option: to sit in a class with 200 other students listening to a professor (or more likely a graduate student) lecture on fluids in a steady state (and most people in the class couldn't care less what he's talking about), or to "take charge" of your own education by applying yourself to the subject at hand in order to pass the related test? Please don't tell me that the average student in our country's prestigious "liberal arts" colleges actually cares about what he is "learning"! 

Check out this real-life example: my brother is currently going to a local community college, and he told me that the class recently had a group project where pairs of students had to give 5 minute graded presentations to the class. One of the groups openly admitted that they had not prepared at all in terms of research or planning for the presentation, yet they did the best job out of any in the class. That is the state of our public education system! 

What programs like CollegePlus! and colleges like Thomas Edison are doing is placing the reigns of an education back into the hands of the student. Who cares if Thomas Edison didn't get into some list. Education at the end of the Middle Ages was the responsibility of the student. If he did not graduate, it was entirely his fault. Yet, most colleges are letting students coast through college instead of demanding excellence. I believe that motivated students, students who truly want to pursue excellence in life (most homeschool students I know are this way), are hindered by the ridiculous hoops that everyone has to jump through in order to graduate college. Such motivated students usually excel at abstract thinking, critical reasoning, and ability to learn, so why should they be forced to follow the same path that public education has cleared for them? 

I believe that you are placing the mode of education as being more important than the student. Motivated students are the ones who succeed in college, regardless of the method. I commend anyone who takes their education into their own hands so that they can excel.


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## CharlieJ (Nov 15, 2008)

Calvinist Cowboy said:


> Forgive me for disagreeing, but I have a few issues with what you are saying. First of all, what is wrong with getting credit for life experience? If a person gains experience in, say, accounting, through a summer job at a friend's business, why should he have to take a class to learn what he already knows? In my opinion, it is an excellent idea to offer credit for _proven_ life experience (i.e. reports of work done, photocopies, etc.).
> 
> Second, much of a "liberal arts education" is garbage anyway! The first two years of almost any degree consists of basically the same general courses, such as calculus, natural science, etc. Which is the more sensible option: to sit in a class with 200 other students listening to a professor (or more likely a graduate student) lecture on fluids in a steady state (and most people in the class couldn't care less what he's talking about), or to "take charge" of your own education by applying yourself to the subject at hand in order to pass the related test? Please don't tell me that the average student in our country's prestigious "liberal arts" colleges actually cares about what he is "learning"!
> 
> ...



I believe, sir, that you just confirmed everything that I said. Your comment about the "ridiculous hoops" confirms what I said about certain people viewing college degrees as annoyances - meaningless checkpoints. It seems like you want a degree, not learning. However, I already mentioned that I'm for CLEP tests and advanced credit *if students already know the material. I'm not for utilizing a short-term fact memorization system in the place of real learning. I teach the GMAT for business schools, and students who don't really know their stuff learn to "fake it" for the test all the time. 

There is a world of difference between good education and bad, or even average, education. Your community college example only demonstrates the point. You think Thomas Edison State is going to "demand excellence"? Get real. They didn't even rank on US News or Princeton Review's top 368 (an average of 7 colleges per state). It's a degree mill. If people are that advanced, why waste it on an academically poor school? Like I said, it makes sense if you are a professional and the piece of paper will make a difference in your pay for the job you already have.

I agree that there are wonderfully motivated high school students. They should go to good schools like Ivy leagues or U Penn or William & Mary. With the greater selectivity of those schools, they will be with people on their own intellectual level, learning from highly distinguished faculty. They will be challenged to interact with authors and ideas, and they will have superior research facilities and libraries. They will have opportunities to get internships and participate in projects that others will not.*


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## Brother John (Nov 16, 2008)

Ben and Charlie thanks for your input.

Charlie,
I would like to hear your opinion on my situation since you are somewhat tied into the academic world. I am twenty seven years old. I am married and have two sons who are three and fifteen months. We live in Cumming/Gainesville Georgia north of Atlanta. I work 7-5 each day Mon-Fri. I am looking to stop my seminary work so that I can go back and finish my undergrad. Obviously I need my undergrad finished so that I can earn my MDIV. My company will pay for half of my tuition up to 3500 a year and the degree must fall into an approved list. I do not want to just get a piece of paper, but I also dont want to waste time with meaningless work. My goal is to get a degree quickly that will help me at work and in seminary and then get back to seminary so that I can complete my studies before I am forty . I would appreciate any counsel as to how I can do this. Thanks


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