# WSCAL or a Baptist Seminary



## Quatchu (Feb 7, 2011)

Within the next few months I will be moving to San Diego. Within the next few years I plan to go to seminary, as i Have long felt a call to Pastoral ministry. With this in mind Westminster Seminary California seems like a wonderful seminary with a wonderful reputation and strong reliance on scripture. I like that it hold a covenant theology rather then dispensational

I'am a Baptist and my intent is to minister within baptist/baptistic settings. Now I have read many posts on WSCAL on PB and I know that a baptist would have no trouble fitting in at a Presbyterian seminary. 

My question really is would attending a presbyterian seminary like this cause trouble for me to find a church after graduation? Would even a reformed congregation of the SBC look at a MDIV taken at a Presbyterian seminary as less desirable then a Baptist seminary, would there be prejudice? Would it be better to try to find a Baptist Seminary?


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## JML (Feb 7, 2011)

Why don't you attend the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies which is at WSCAL?

The Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies

Someone please correct me if I am wrong but I think that you actually attend WSCAL but take a few classes from IRBS that are from the Baptist perspective in place of some of the more presbyterian classes at WSCAL.


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## Notthemama1984 (Feb 7, 2011)

I would have a hard time thinking a reformed baptist church would have problems if you had an MDiv from WSC. Broad SBC may be different. Would some have problems? I could see a possibility, but I do not think everyone would.


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## Quatchu (Feb 7, 2011)

I was aware that The Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies was on campus but was worried that it might only be valid for someone pursuing ministry within the ARBCA.


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## JML (Feb 7, 2011)

Quatchu said:


> I was aware that The Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies was on campus but was worried that it might only be valid for someone pursuing ministry within the ARBCA.



Ahh. Gotcha. 

I agree with Bolivar. If you are looking at ministering in a Reformed Baptist Church, I don't think you will have any problems. First of all, there are more quality Reformed Presbyterian Seminaries than there are Baptist. Not that there are not any good RB seminaries but in sheer numbers, the Presbyterians have us beat. I think that Reformed Baptists understand this fact.


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## Notthemama1984 (Feb 7, 2011)

The SBC can be tricky. For whatever reason, alot of guys prefer you to go to the SBC of your area. For example if you lived in Texas, you would attend Southwestern and not Southern. By no means is this view universal though.

Personally, I would go where you could get the best education and leave the rest to God.


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## R. Scott Clark (Feb 7, 2011)

Hi Justin,

Contact the Rev Dr Jim Renihan [email protected]

Here's the IRBS website. He can talk to you about possible vocational outcomes with a WSC degree and an IRBS certificate. I'm quite sure that we've had SBC students at WSC. Contact our admissions director, Mark MacVey 

Here's an interview with Mark

The following comments are general in nature and not meant to be taken as if they're aimed at you personally. It's reasonable to ask about vocational outcomes but, as a matter of principle I think seminary students should seek to get the best possible education and preparation for ministry. Sometimes I get the sense that students try to pre-arrange the outcome of an education as if it were a game of pool. I'll hit this ball, which will strike that ball, which will cause the third...." Education, in the nature of things, should be open to a variety of outcomes. The goal should be to learn to read the Scriptures and the confessions and the tradition (and to apply all of that in an ecclesiastical context) as well as possible. 

As to retaining your Baptist convictions. You're a Baptist now and you may be a Baptist when you leave seminary but I've known students to work through the issue and come out Reformed/Presbyterian. That doesn't always happen and in any case our IRBS students have been quite happy with their education and well prepared to pursue ministry in a Baptist context.


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## DAW (Feb 7, 2011)

Westminster is not a Presbyterian seminary. It is a Reformed seminary. From what I know about the IRBS, it is quite sound theolocically and academically. I do not think that you would have a problem being placed in a Baptist church.


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## SolaScriptura (Feb 7, 2011)

The best Baptists are Reformed Baptists. Therefore, it seems self-evident to me that getting an education that is as Reformed as possible is the best course of action for someone who wants to be a good Baptist.


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## mjmacvey (Feb 7, 2011)

Justin,

It looks like Dr. Clark beat me to this thread, but I just wanted to jump in and let you know that I would be happy to answer any questions you might have. The best thing you can do when you arrive in San Diego is to come visit us. You would have an opportunity to meet with our staff and faculty as well as Dr. Renihan (he has an office on our campus) and perhaps some other Baptist students willing to share their experience at WSC. 

Just to clarify, not all of our IRBS students are from ARBCA. There are guys from SBC/Acts 29, Sovereign Grace, and a few associated with FIRE (Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals). You should also know that not all Baptist students choose to pursue the IRBS track. You should also consider the fact that you would also have an opportunity to pursue internships in the SBC while a student here (we require 700 hours of Field Education). This experience should provide you with contacts within the SBC and recommendations for future opportunities.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 7, 2011)

Quatchu said:


> My question really is would attending a presbyterian seminary like this cause trouble for me to find a church after graduation? Would even a reformed congregation of the SBC look at a MDIV taken at a Presbyterian seminary as less desirable then a Baptist seminary, would there be prejudice? Would it be better to try to find a Baptist Seminary?




That depends on how Reformed the Southern Baptist church is. There are a lot of men and churches within the SBC that are varying degrees of "Reformed." 

Many of them simply use the term Reformed to describe someone who adheres to TULIP, and in some cases this would include those who are shaky on the "L." In my experience, most of them, particularly the younger men, are not dispensational in any sense. But many of them are also not covenantal, with something like New Covenant Theology being fairly common even if they don't identify with that label (think Carson, Schreiner, Piper, etc.) Sabbatarianism and any emphasis on the RPW seem to be pretty rare, even among those who are otherwise of a more covenantal bent. (Of course, taking exception to the confessional teaching on the Sabbath and having little appreciation for the RPW is not uncommon in the the PCA as well.) 

If you are only going to be looking at those churches that would be strongly covenantal and more or less strictly subscribe to the 1689 you will be fine, although as I note above, I don't know how many such churches there really are in the SBC at this point beyond those that are dually affiliated with ARBCA. It seems that many in the SBC, even within Founders circles, are moving more in the "missional" direction (think Driscoll, Keller, Stetzer, etc.) and are not that focused on the confession. 

On the other hand, if you want to leave your options open to be able to minister in a context in which a Southern Baptist church is becoming more Calvinistic or Reformed and is looking for a Reformed pastor to help move things further in that direction, you'd be better off attending one of the 6 SBC seminaries, with Southern being the #1 option and Southeastern probably being #2. The whole Reformed issue aside, I have known of SBC pastors who graduated from places like Dallas Theological Seminary having a harder time getting serious consideration compared to those who graduated from a SBC seminary because many SBC churches tend to look for a graduate of one of their seminaries. This can even be the case with some Calvinistic churches. 

Generally speaking, I'd imagine that having a degree from a non-SBC school is probably going to be less of a problem the further you get from the South, where most Southern Baptist churches are. Ivan Schoen or some others in the SBC may be able to lend a more informed perspective to this question. 

If you are leaning heavily toward ministering in a SBC context, I would also think that a SBC seminary would be preferred if you are interested in delving deeply into the particulars of SBC history and practice, much of which has a significant Calvinist influence, especially prior to about the 1920's. I'm not looking to denigrate WSCAL, but it would be more narrowly focused toward Reformed contexts. The Baptist emphasis (the IRBS site shows one Baptist History course) is likely going to focus heavily on English Particular Baptists, maybe hitting the high points of the American Baptists and perhaps the more recent Reformed Baptist movement. (I'd be happy to be corrected if I'm wrong here.) 

Something else to consider is where you fit on the law/gospel issue. WSCAL has a particular emphasis on that issue that is not shared by all within the Reformed community. There have been some recent threads here regarding that. My guess is that their view is less popular among Reformed Baptists than it is among the Presbyterian/Reformed, and it is a subject of some debate in those circles as well. 

Another Reformed Baptist seminary to consider is Reformed Baptist Seminary in Greenville, SC. 

It appears that you have some time to consider this, and it's good that you appear to be weighing your options carefully. It would be a good idea to contact those seminaries that you identify as possibilities and arrange visits to those you're most interested in over the next few years, if possible. This gives you a chance to sit in on some classes and meet professors and students.


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## Damon Rambo (Feb 7, 2011)

Unless you are planning to relocate to Kentucky or North Carolina, I think WSCAL is your best bet. Get the good education, and let God worry about who is going to accept your degree.


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