# Does anyone know anything about these colleges?



## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm a 17 year old guy, and I'll be applying to colleges this September. Here's my college list.
Patrick Henry College
Hampden-Sydney College
New St. Andrews College ( founded by Doug Wilson)
Grove City College
Do any of you have experience with any of these 4 colleges? They all seem to provide a strong classical liberal arts education, although New St. Andrews is the only Reformed school on the list. I'm looking to either become a corporate attorney or an academic.


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## Contra_Mundum (Aug 16, 2016)

Grove City (PA) has a fairly well-regarded academic reputation. I know a handful of people who have gone there. There are also several good churches I know of very nearby.

Hampden-Sydney (VA) is an historic school; a degree from there has probably been a stepping-stone for many into a profitable (by various measures) future. I can think of only one man I've ever known personally who went there, and I knew him only briefly a long time ago now. 

Patrick Henry and New St. Andrews, besides being fairly recent creations, have idiosyncrasies that mean I will not recommend my own children or others attend. And for my part, I would not name NSA a "reformed" institution.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 16, 2016)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Grove City (PA) has a fairly well-regarded academic reputation. I know a handful of people who have gone there. There are also several good churches I know of very nearby.
> 
> Hampden-Sydney (VA) is an historic school; a degree from there has probably been a stepping-stone for many into a profitable (by various measures) future. I can think of only one man I've ever known personally who went there, and I knew him only briefly a long time ago now.
> 
> Patrick Henry and New St. Andrews, besides being fairly recent creations, have idiosyncrasies that mean I will not recommend my own children or others attend. And for my part, I would not name NSA a "reformed" institution.


What issues do you see with Patrick Henry and NSA?


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## arapahoepark (Aug 16, 2016)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> > Grove City (PA) has a fairly well-regarded academic reputation. I know a handful of people who have gone there. There are also several good churches I know of very nearby.
> ...



I have no idea about Patrick Henry. I assumed it was good and would like to hear more. However, NSA for one, I do not believe is accredited and associated with Douglas Wilson, one of the, if not the, chief promoter of the Federal Vision (hyper covenantal Catholicism in reformed clothes).


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## Jack K (Aug 16, 2016)

I don't know all that much, but from that list I would feel quite good about sending my own son to Grove City while I would have misgivings about the others. A lot depends on the individual student, though. Some students thrive in a place that would be a disappointment or even a danger to others.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 16, 2016)

arapahoepark said:


> Anglicanorthodoxy said:
> 
> 
> > Contra_Mundum said:
> ...


NSA is accredited by the same organization as Patrick Henry. Do you think the Federal Vision will be a big part of the theology courses there.


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## Jake (Aug 16, 2016)

I'm a graduate of a Reformed liberal arts college that's not on your list (Covenant College). Here's a few general thoughts I have about making the decision: 

Don't mistake the place of the church with a school. A top priority is making sure that there is a solid church nearby. Also, you should not expect the things you should get from a church from a school. I don't mean to say that it isn't great to be among fellow believers, but it seems there's often a conflation of these in a college environment. 

Don't become so tied to a particular institution that you make a bad financial decision. I got accepted to a lot of schools I looked at, but some were prohibitively expensive with the financial packages assigned. I know people who have taken on tens of thousands of dollars in debt to attend a particular place. I actually got a really good financial package at Covenant, but it was a rocky road to get there (I'd be happy to share) and almost didn't go there. I am very grateful now, that between the help of my parents and the work into finding a good deal, I was able to graduate debt-free.

Look at the programs you want to study and what you want to do afterwards. There are programs I'd recommend my alma matter for and others I would not, based on the rigor of the academics and the professor. Especially at small colleges like you're looking at, you'll likely get opportunities to speak with professors and students before you start. 

In addition, think about what you want from studying at an institution with the liberal arts curriculum. There can be a lot of influence from the theological bent of the college in classes like this, whether that's the majority view of Neo-Calvinism at my alma matter or influences of the Federal Vision or broad evangelicalism for other schools on your list.

I don't have specifics to offer you, but I would caution against New Saint Andrews College. It's a dangerous place in many ways, not just spiritually.


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## Edward (Aug 16, 2016)

Grove City has a good, well established reputation. 

New St. Andrews should be avoided. (In addition to theological issues, their courses may not be accepted by other colleges and universities.) Here's what they say: " a number of state universities in particular do not accept credits from nationally accredited and CHEA-recognized institutions like New Saint Andrews, but accept credits only from “regionally” accredited schools" http://www.nsa.edu/admissions/transfer-international/ 

Patrick Henry appears to be 'accredited' by the same group that provides accreditation to New St. Andrews, so the the same caution as to transferability of credits would likely apply. 

If I was looking for an academic degree, I'd limit myself to institutions with appropriate regional accreditation. 

Hampden-Sydney, like Grove City, is affiliated with the liberal PCUSA denomination, but while you should use due diligence to see how much influence the denomination has over the the faculty and curriculum, it may not be a problem. (Another school in that group would be Belhaven in Jackson, MS. I know that the denomination has had little influence over its operations in recent years, and that First Presbyterian (PCA) has probably had more direct influence on the faculty and students. )

Depending on what you are looking for, I'd cut New St. Andrews and Patrick Henry from the list, and at least give a superficial look at Covenant (Chattanooga, TN area) and Belhaven, either of which would be able to link you up with solid local churches.


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## iainduguid (Aug 16, 2016)

I taught Old Testament at Grove City College from 2006-2015. It has a thoroughly conservative and reformed Biblical and Religious Studies department and a warm evangelical tone overall. There are a number of good churches nearby. It also has excellent academic standards and an affordable price. Definitely worth considering.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 16, 2016)

Jake said:


> I'm a graduate of a Reformed liberal arts college that's not on your list (Covenant College). Here's a few general thoughts I have about making the decision:
> 
> Don't mistake the place of the church with a school. A top priority is making sure that there is a solid church nearby. Also, you should not expect the things you should get from a church from a school. I don't mean to say that it isn't great to be among fellow believers, but it seems there's often a conflation of these in a college environment.
> 
> ...


What do you mean when you say New St. Andrews is "dangerous" in many ways.


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## mgkortus (Aug 16, 2016)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Grove City (PA) has a fairly well-regarded academic reputation. I know a handful of people who have gone there. There are also several good churches I know of very nearby.



I can say the same things about Grove City. My friends who attended there enjoyed it. In addition, you will be able to find a conservative Reformed church there. 
I nothing about the others.


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## Logan (Aug 16, 2016)

I studied engineering but here is something I concluded: studying at a secular university usually had clear danger with opposition to Christianity yet most "Christian" schools have their own dangers.

Personally, I found it easier to protect myself from clear opposition than liberalism or more subtle errors. An obvious fake is often easier to detect than a really close counterfeit---an obvious danger than a more elusive one. This will definitely depend on your maturity and probably depends on what course of study you take, but I wouldn't automatically assume a Christian school will be safer, I'd actually be tempted to assume the opposite.


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## arapahoepark (Aug 16, 2016)

Logan said:


> I studied engineering but here is something I concluded: studying at a secular university usually had clear danger with opposition to Christianity yet most "Christian" schools have their own dangers.
> 
> Personally, I found it easier to protect myself from clear opposition than liberalism or more subtle errors. An obvious fake is often easier to detect than a really close counterfeit---an obvious danger than a more elusive one. This will definitely depend on your maturity and probably depends on what course of study you take, but I wouldn't automatically assume a Christian school will be safer, I'd actually be tempted to assume the opposite.



I can second this as I went two a couple secular colleges.


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## mjmacvey (Aug 17, 2016)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> I'm a 17 year old guy, and I'll be applying to colleges this September. Here's my college list.
> Patrick Henry College
> Hampden-Sydney College
> New St. Andrews College ( founded by Doug Wilson)
> ...




I would add my support to Grove City over the others. Our best prepared students at Westminster Seminary California have come from Grove City and several of our GCC grads have gone on to do PhD work. I would consider Covenant College and Geneva College as well.


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## Mr. Bultitude (Aug 17, 2016)

I'll add my voice to the chorus of support for Grove City. I know someone who graduated from there and had a great experience. Also, if you look online for lists of "most conservative colleges" in the US, you'll find it consistently placed at number 1 or 2 (the other one that lands consistently in the top two being Hillsdale College). Before I noticed Iain Duguid posted in this thread, I was going to point out that he taught there. All of my evidence for its goodness is hearsay, so it wouldn't be admissible in a court of law, but it's something I think. I know nothing of any of the other schools.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 17, 2016)

What's the issue with New St. Andrews College?


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## Contra_Mundum (Aug 17, 2016)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> What's the issue with New St. Andrews College?



I don't know where you picked up an affinity for G.Clark (you mentioned in another thread), but here's a book by a couple of his ardent disciples.
https://www.amazon.com/Reformed-John-Gerety-Sean-Robbins/dp/0940931664

The title is a direct slam at D.Wilson and Co. (which published a book titled "ReformedIsNotEnough").

I agree with critics that GHC was a rationalist, as are generally those who own and publish his titles today (TrinityFoundation). That being said, whatever those failings are that belong to the contributors to the TrinityReview, these are allies in opposition to the moralism and general recasting of Reformed theology coming today from the Muscovites.

NSA, located in MoscowID, is part of the WilsonEmpire (see here http://moscowid.net/2016/08/10/dougwils-inc/). NSA is a school with the stamp of one particular personality. DW is less part of the _Reformed_ stream wondering where he fits, but aims to cut his own Grand Canyon.

You have several words-to-the-wise offered in this thread.


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## Anglicanorthodoxy (Aug 17, 2016)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Anglicanorthodoxy said:
> 
> 
> > What's the issue with New St. Andrews College?
> ...


Just sent you a PM with more questions.


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## Jake (Aug 18, 2016)

I was thinking of the issues with Douglas Wilson, theologically and the cult-like nature of the church, including covering up of scandals and young women who have been affected including at their time at NSA and the CREC churches in the area when it said it is dangerous.


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