# Can a christian befriend a homosexual?



## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Sep 21, 2005)

People claim that by not doing so is revealing conditional love.


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## BJClark (Sep 21, 2005)

Certainly you can befriend a homosexual, the only thing is that you set boundaries on that relationship, just as you would with any other sinful behavior.

I can be friends with a drunkard, I just ask that if they are coming to my home then they don't drink before they come over or while they are here. If they choose to spend time with me, they need to be sober.

You could do the same type of thing in that friendship. If they come to your home they leave their partner at home, and if you go to their home then you are choosing to subject yourself to their choices and behavior, even if you diasgree with it.


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## SmokingFlax (Sep 21, 2005)

It depends...how do you define "befriend"?

"revealing conditional love" ...ummmmm is this bad? 
Where is the verse that says we are to "love unconditionally"?

On another note...I have a feeling that I'm not the only guy here that thinks something ain't quite right with your cuddly kitty-cat picture. You need to lose that thing!


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SmokingFlax_
> It depends...how do you define "befriend"?
> 
> "revealing conditional love" ...ummmmm is this bad?
> ...


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## Poimen (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SmokingFlax_
> On another note...I have a feeling that I'm not the only guy here that thinks something ain't quite right with your cuddly kitty-cat picture. You need to lose that thing!



Sorry Tim but this deserves a






Seriously though, I think it would be fine to be a friend to a homosexual as long as they understand that their sin is not something you condone or want to be associated with. 

1 Corinthians 5:9-10

"I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators: Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world."



[Edited on 9-21-2005 by poimen]


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## BJClark (Sep 21, 2005)

Woah, thats pretty judgemental and presumputious, I know a lot of men who like kittens and cats and who cuddle with them like that.

Love is unconditional, that is how God loves us and how He expects us to love others, Un-conditionally, Now, RELATIONSHIPS are based on conditions, as is shown throughout scriptures.

While we were yet sinners Christ died for us correct? Isn't that "unconditional love"?

However, there are certain conditions that must be met before God will be in a relationship with us, first we must acknowledge were sinners, and confess it, and we must repent of those sins, and we must believe on Jesus Christ, then God will have a relationship with us.

His love is there, whether we accept Jesus or not, whether we confess our sins or not, God still loves us, but He doesn't allow a relationship to be formed just because He loved us.


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## pastorway (Sep 21, 2005)

does/did Jesus befriend sinners?

and there you have your answer.

PW


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## Poimen (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BJClark_
> I know a lot of men who like kittens and cats and who cuddle with them like that.








[Edited on 9-21-2005 by poimen]


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SmokingFlax_
> Where is the verse that says we are to "love unconditionally"?



I'm sure that verse is right beside the verse that says, "Love the sinner and not the sin."


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## Average Joey (Sep 21, 2005)

We must remember that becoming friends with someone such as a homosexual builds a trust with him with you and it would present more opportunities to present the gospel.


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## rgrove (Sep 21, 2005)

> Can a christian befriend a homosexual?


Some can, some can't. I would say it depends greatly upon the Christian. 

Despite the Christian's desire for it not to happen, the Christian will be exposed to serious sin and could get caught up in it and fall into sin himself. Especially men as p0rnography is such a serious and rampant problem in that community. We should never overestimate our spiritual maturity in the face of sin. That being said, it is possible, and even desirable to have relationships with unbelievers so that we can reflect Christ to them. They may never have felt the benefits of being around a genuine Christian and may come to a knowledge of the Lord in this manner. 

We should always be aware of the degree to which we get entangled in a life that is inundated with serious sin.


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## BJClark (Sep 21, 2005)

rgrove


> Despite the Christian's desire for it not to happen, the Christian will be exposed to serious sin and could get caught up in it and fall into sin himself. Especially men as p0rnography is such a serious and rampant problem in that community. We should never overestimate our spiritual maturity in the face of sin. That being said, it is possible, and even desirable to have relationships with unbelievers so that we can reflect Christ to them. They may never have felt the benefits of being around a genuine Christian and may come to a knowledge of the Lord in this manner.
> 
> We should always be aware of the degree to which we get entangled in a life that is inundated with serious sin.



Exactly, which is why boundaries need to be set in place.

If you have a problem with setting personal boundaries and relationship boundaries then it could present problems.

There is are some really good books for learning how to set Biblical boundaries if you have that problem on when to say yes or no. Especially if you have an issue with others always ignoring your boundaries.

"Boundaries for Kids"
"Boundaries in Dating"
"Boundaries"
"Boundaries in Marriage"


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## BobVigneault (Sep 21, 2005)

I've been trying to formulate a balanced, biblical response but I just can't get past the picture of a man cuddling a kitty. Gonna go sit with my large breed dog and kick back a strong ale and think about next weeks Packer game.


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> I've been trying to formulate a balanced, biblical response but I just can't get past the picture of a man cuddling a kitty.



Hey, I had a cat that died last year, and I used to cuddle the cat and liked the little fellow! So back off!


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## BJClark (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by poimen_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BJClark_
> ...



Maybe this should be taken to another thread, but I'm curious what the issue is with the picture. 

Does it make him (in your or others opinion) look like 'less' of a man?]

If so, by whose standard of "manliness" are you walking in God's or Man's? that it would make one think


> I have a feeling that I'm not the only guy here that thinks something ain't quite right with your cuddly kitty-cat picture. You need to lose that thing!



Does it make one less of a man to cuddle with a kitten?

If the picture were of a young man cuddled with his infant child would one think things weren't quite right with THAT picture either?

If the picture were of a young man cuddled with a puppy, would you think things weren't quite right, with that picture either?

So again, I ask by whose standard of 'maleness' are you judging, God's or Man's? What makes the difference that it is a kitten? What men aren't allowed to appreciate God's creation of Kittens? Are they somehow sinful?

I'm asking because I'm really curious if you've ever considered where those thoughts come from, God's opinion or the world's opinion? 

I mean, who cares what the "world" thinks about if a man cuddles with a Kitten or not?


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## BobVigneault (Sep 21, 2005)

Sorry Ryan, I overstepped my 'boundary'. I'll go start a new thread, "Can a reformed Christian man befriend a male-gendered-cat-lover?" 

(Anticipating the response, "Hey, what about female cats".)
(Obligatory, "Ha ha")
(Follow-up apology to the person who will take me seriously)
(Yadda-yadda-yadda and I'm out)


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## BobVigneault (Sep 21, 2005)

"For there is some danger of falling into a soft and effeminate Christianity, under the plea of a lofty and ethereal theology. Christianity was born for endurance; not an exotic, but a hardy plant, braced by the keen wind; not languid, nor childish, nor cowardly. It walks with strong step and erect frame; it is kindly, but firm; it is gentle, but honest; it is calm, but not facile; obliging, but not imbecile; decided, but not churlish. It does not fear to speak the stern word of condemnation against error, nor to raise its voice against surrounding evils, under the pretext it is not of this world; it does not shrink from giving honest reproof, lest it come under the charge of displaying an unchristian spirit. It calls sin sin, on whomsoever it is found, and would rather risk the accusation of being actuated by a bad spirit than not discharge an explicit duty. Let us not misjudge strong words used in honest controversy.

Out of the heat a viper may come forth; but we shake it off and feel no harm. The religion of both Old and New Testaments is marked by fervent outspoken testimonies against evil. To speak smooth things in such a case may be sentimentalism, but it is not Christianity. It is a betrayal of the cause of truth and righteousness. If anyone should be frank, manly, honest, cheerful (I do not say blunt or rude, for a Christian must be courteous and polite); it is he who has tasted that the Lord is gracious, and is looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God. I know that charity covereth a multitude of sins; but it does not call evil good, because a good man has done it; it does not excuse inconsistencies, because the inconsistent brother has a high name and a fervent spirit; crookedness and worldliness are still crookedness and worldliness, though exhibited in one who seems to have reached no common height of attainment." (Spurgeon citing Horatius Bonar)


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## Romans922 (Sep 21, 2005)

If they are claiming to be Christian, and you've pointed out their sin...etc (mt 18, etc.)..


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## Anton Bruckner (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SmokingFlax_
> 
> 
> On another note...I have a feeling that I'm not the only guy here that thinks something ain't quite right with your cuddly kitty-cat picture. You need to lose that thing!



If the homosexual knows your Biblical beliefs concerning homosexuality and is comfortable with it, so be it. But put a limit to the relationship least he converts you to his philosophy of acceptance of the lifestyle as opposed to you converting him to your philosophy.


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Sep 21, 2005)

What of 1 Corinthians 5:5 (i think...) about not associating with so called brothers...

What if the homosexual proclaims to be a Christian?


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## rgrove (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus_
> What of 1 Corinthians 5:5 (i think...) about not associating with so called brothers...
> 
> What if the homosexual proclaims to be a Christian?


There are multiple approaches to this problem, but here is one text:

John 15:1-11 - "_15:1 "œI am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch of mine that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. 5 I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. 6 *If anyone does not abide in me he is thrown away like a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire, and burned.* 7 If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be done for you. 8 By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples. 9 As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you. Abide in my love. 10 If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father's commandments and abide in his love. 11 These things I have spoken to you, that my joy may be in you, and that your joy may be full._"

Jesus is not talking about periodic sin, since all Christians sin in that way, he's talking about purposefully and perpetually walking in outright constant sin and rebellion against His commandments. He's decieving himself and it's probable that this will have eternal consequences.

Again, I recommend caution in long term relationship with a homosexual if they will not repent, and especially if it's a professing believer. Just recently I had a good friend who met his wife at a prominant SBC seminary and they got married. She was attending too of course. His wife got into acting and we're here a couple years after that and she's declared she's a lesbian and divorcing him. She still professes to be a believer, but you can take your pick of any number of texts in the Bible that would call that profession into question. I expect she'll openly reject Christ in time unless the Lord is using this somehow to bring her closer to Him eventually. I truly pray that's the case. Moral of this true story is that if we hang around sin and temptation long enough we may well find ourselves ensnared.

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by rgrove]


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## Anton Bruckner (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by rgrove_
> I truly pray that's the case. Moral of this true story is that if we hang around sin and temptation long enough we may well find ourselves ensnared.


excellent point. I think if the friendship is one of necessity, so be it, i.e in the case of a mother, father, brother, sister, cousin. But if it is not out of necessity, I would limit it severely. But this in no way means that you do not love the person and would look out for their best interest. If they come with you asking you for a favor etc, you willingly do it. But buddying up and hanging out is a no no.

If they are at enmity with God, they are at enmity with you, no matter how sweet it looks on the surface.


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## Poimen (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BJClark_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by poimen_
> ...



I really could care less if a guy cuddles a kitten because I was joking! As for myself I would never do it because I hate animals.


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## Saiph (Sep 21, 2005)

I would not befriend a homosexual, for the same reason I would not befriend a witch, a kidnapper, a murderer, or child-molester. 

That is not to say I would not be a good samaritan to one of those individuals. Loving your neighbor means desiring godliness for them in all things. The best for the aforementioned list is grace and repentance. Until they become Christians there is no need to have fellowship with the unfruitful. Neighbors yes, friends no.

Let them know where you stand, and pray for them. Show them kindness, but not warm affection. Remind them that any good deed they experience by your aquaintance is God's mercy and longsuffering towards them.

Many of them are seeking approval, not the truth that can set them free.

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by Saiph]


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## Saiph (Sep 21, 2005)

And why is everyone giving the cat lover a hard time ? ? It is just a cat.

What irony on a site that honors PURITANS. . . . . 

Last time I checked they powdered their faces, wore wigs, and donned a great deal of lace on their clothing.......


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## Scott Bushey (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by poimen_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BJClark_
> ...



Fascist!


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## brymaes (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> And why is everyone giving the cat lover a hard time ? ? It is just a cat.
> 
> What irony on a site that honors PURITANS. . . . .
> ...





Great to have you back, Mark. Played any Go recently?


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## Peter (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> Last time I checked they powdered their faces, wore wigs, and donned a great deal of lace on their clothing.......



 You're kidding right?


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## john_Mark (Sep 21, 2005)

Can a Christian befriend a male or female who practices illicit sex in their lifestyle?


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## Saiph (Sep 21, 2005)

Peter:

http://www.historicprints.com/shop/images/products/Jonathan Edwards 002.jpg


Jonathan Edwards . . . .

I have seen similar portraits of Owen.


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## Saiph (Sep 21, 2005)

> Can a Christian befriend a male or female who practices illicit sex in their lifestyle?



Can they ? ? yes. Should they ? no.

Jesus told sexually promiscuous individuals to "sin no more".


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## john_Mark (Sep 21, 2005)

Can Christians have any type of friendship whatsoever with unbelievers (read: sinners)? (This may be in or out of the workplace, etc.)


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by john_Mark_
> Can Christians have any type of friendship whatsoever with unbelievers (read: sinners)? (This may be in or out of the workplace, etc.)



I try to follow these guidelines from the New England Primer:



> HAVE communion with few,
> Be intimate with ONE,
> Deal justly with all,
> Speak evil of none.


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## Saiph (Sep 21, 2005)

John Mark:

I think it depends on how we define friendship.

St. Paul implies we would need to go out of the world if we did not associate with the ungodly in any sense. However, friendship involves trust, integrity, and mutual interest. What fellowship would you have with them ? ? 

I have non-christians over for dinner, and often go out for coffee with them, with the agenda of discussing world-views. But I would not call them friends.


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## john_Mark (Sep 21, 2005)

So do none of you have friends from before being a Christian? 

I have many, but I don't to much with them nor do I have Christian fellowship with them. I trust them to a point and we can find mutual interests in sports, movies, politics, etc. and some of them would do whatever it took to help me if I were in a bind. Should I not consider them friends? I suppose it could depend on the definition.


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## rgrove (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by john_Mark_
> So do none of you have friends from before being a Christian?


Not any longer, but this is more a function of how long I've been a Christian and just slowly losing touch during moves and whatnot. 



> I have many, but I don't to much with them nor do I have Christian fellowship with them. I trust them to a point and we can find mutual interests in sports, movies, politics, etc. and some of them would do whatever it took to help me if I were in a bind. Should I not consider them friends? I suppose it could depend on the definition.


I have a couple co-workers like this and I'd call them friends, but it's on a fairly superficial level compared to what I have brothers and sisters in Christ at church. I'm closer to them than I am to my own family (RCC) in many ways. I think people are perhaps defining "friend" in different ways. Perhaps we should qualify the word somewhat, or call these sorts of people "good acquantences" or something. But that would sound almost insulting to most people...


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## Richard King (Sep 21, 2005)

Can a christian befriend a homosexual?


Sure right up until the moment you tell them that the Creator of the universe says homosexuality is an abomination. Then they will drop you like a hot potato.

Truely, I have had three aquaintances who were homosexual in my life (so far as I know.) I hate generalizations but I will be guilty of one...based on this three man sample I noticed nothing matters more to them than their own will. They want what they want and if they don't get it, fits will be thrown.
So I can make this prediction. Really you don't have to be mean at all. You can protect them from bullies, listen to their feelings, be careful not to hurt their feelings but eventually a couple of things will happen...they will want you to meet some more of their crowd so you will see how nice they are, then they will want you to go to their clubs or take a stand for them publically and then when you refuse and tell them..."hey it ain't me that says this, it is GOD ALMIGHTY that says that lifestyle is an abomination" they will shed tears, curse you and be gone. It happens every time so far.


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## govols (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by poimen_
> 
> I really could care less if a guy cuddles a kitten because I was joking! As for myself I would never do it because I hate animals.



Daniel,

Have you ever tied two cats up by their tails and thrown them over a clothes line and watch 'em go at it? 

Now that's some good ole southern entertainment.


[Edited on 9-21-2005 by govols]


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## Romans922 (Sep 21, 2005)

I don't think I can be friends with a non-Christian. I think I might be able to be aquaintences. 

What does it mean to be a friend. I don't think a Christian can be a friend to a non-Christian. And with a Christian who commits sin unrepentently, then let them be...well you know.


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## Poimen (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by govols_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by poimen_
> ...



That is hilarious and awful at the same time!


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## govols (Sep 21, 2005)

I haven't actually accomplished the feat but have seen it done. They used velcro strips around the two tails with bungee cord connecting their tails and they even put mitts on their paws so they couldn't do damage to each other. They let them go at for less than a minute b/c they get so tired so quickly and they didn't get hurt.

I personally wouldn't do that but man it was something to see.


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