# Jonathan Edwards & Presbyterian government versus independency



## Need 4 Creed (Apr 28, 2013)

I have just read this quote in James Moffatt's _The Presbyterian Churches_ and it has prompted a few questions. 

"As to Presbyterian Government, I have long been perfectly out of conceit of our unsettled, independent, confused way of Church government in this land, and the Presbyterian way has ever appeared to me most agreeable to the word of God, and the reason and nature of things." Jonathan Edwards 

1) In what ways were the independents 'confused' and 'unsettled' at the time of Edwards, and are these things symptoms of independency? 

2) Modern evangelicalism consists of a myriad of independent churches and is certainly 'confused' and 'unsettled', is this a symptom of independency?

3) Could confessionalism alone (i.g baptist confession) bring the needed correction to independent modern evangelical churches (and consequently modern evangelicalism), or would it take a transition into presbyterianism (thus a shift from independency)?


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## jwithnell (Apr 28, 2013)

Mr. Edwards had direct involvement in the Presbyterian church early in his career before moving to Northampton whose church followed the more typical New England congregational model. I don't think the churches of the time would have seen themselves as independent as the modern US "Bible Church" model. Some churches operated under sessions, though the congregational form of government held sway. Sermons were often printed and circulated for discussion among the clergy (the practice likely encouraged orthodoxy). At times associations formed among different churches in a region. However, none of this was specified by any book of church order. At Northampton, the practice of multiple elders had mostly fallen away by the time of the Edwards. And Mr. Edwards felt the powerful sting of having 51 percent of a congregation dictate a church's direction,


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## Wayne (Apr 28, 2013)

Some background, which includes the source of the Edwards quote:

President Edwards, a Presbyterian. | - The Continuing Story -


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## MW (Apr 28, 2013)

Thankyou, Wayne. I look forward to the Breckenridge piece if it becomes available. The following statement from the blog post gives insight into one way human character can affect preference in church polity:

"It is very natural for an agitator, a man of progress, or of loose views in theology, to prefer some type of Independency. Without a Session to advise with him in the spiritual oversight of the Congregation, he can (if a manager) have his own way in controlling everything in his church. If a careful and discreet ruler, he may acquire more power in his charge as an Independent, than he could hope to gain as a Presbyterian minister."


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## deleteduser99 (Apr 28, 2013)

I am reading through Sereno Dwight's biography of Jonathan Edwards, and to give some context to the statement, this was a letter that was written after the end of the First Great Awakening, and after he was ejected from his pulpit. There were many good things about the First Great Awakening, but there were also terrible cases of spiritual "professional negligence." Edwards was dealing with a host of issues, including overly-censorious self-appointed lay preachers who had a habit of calling out particular ministers as unconverted because they were not as zealous as some expected they should be; and even some ministers in that habit, such as Whitefield; some claiming a revival of supernatural gifts; some indiscriminately sharing recounts of their high spiritual experiences with everyone they could; many cases of false spiritual highs by "sympathy effects"; the success of factious individuals in his church campaigning to have him removed; and the stress on Edwards from trying to put out all these fires at once. Though there were wonderful conversions and testimonies of God's work, the Spirit was deeply grieved in the end by abundant zeal without knowledge.

With those combined facts and experiences, I wonder if Edwards was beginning to think that the tight bonding of a Presbyterian system might have prevented many of these grievances, like coals in a fire that keep each other warm, and preventing any one coal from cooling through isolation from accountability.

Could Presbyterianism have prevented these evils? Possibly, if the majority of those in the would-be Presbytery had well-rounded knowledge, zeal, and practice.

Could independent churches prevent these evils? Possibly, if in addition to being characterized by well-rounded knowledge, zeal, and practice, they are seriously and actively united for the same reasons that Presbyterian governments are formed.

Though, I'm not sure I could assess how being a part of a local presbytery would have changed anything, because revival can be a sink-or-swim test of any Christian, minister, church, or presbytery.


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## Wayne (Apr 28, 2013)

Matthew:

Sean Lucas posted that account here:

Sean Michael Lucas: Jonathan Edwards: Presbyterian?

I need to post it on the Historical Center site as well, but for now, this gives you immediate access to that anecdote.


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## Need 4 Creed (Apr 29, 2013)

Thanks for all the background links and info.


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