# Eph 4:11-12



## larryjf (May 26, 2005)

(Eph 4:11) And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the pastors and teachers, 
(Eph 4:12) to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, (ESV)

Should the three phrases in v12 be translated as being parallel to each other, describing three separate purposes for the giving of the offices mentioned in verse 11?

Chrysostom seems to suggest three purposes when he says in regard to Eph 4:12, "Perceive ye the dignity of the office? Each one edifies, each one perfects, each one ministers."

The way the verse is translated however, the only purpose of the offices listed in v11 is the equipping of the saints. It is out of this equiping that the work of ministry and the building up the body of Christ is accomplished. So that the end result is the offices listed only equip the saints, while equipped saints do the work of the ministry and build the body of Christ.

I also heard somewhere that the Greek points to the idea of 3 seperate purposes, but i am not that well versed in Greek.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanx.


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## Rich Barcellos (May 26, 2005)

Here's a piece from a sermon I preached on this many years ago. I sill hold the same view.

A.	The structure of the verse: There has been basically two positions held concerning the structure of this verse. 
1.	The first position sees the first phrase, for the equipping of the saints, as the reason why Christ gives pastors to the church. According to this view, the second and third phrases of verse 12 refer to what the saints do after their pastors equip them. The subject of the first phrase is the pastors of verse 11. The subject of the second and third phrases is the saints. This position is somewhat new in the history of interpretation. Those who hold to this position often press upon their people the need to "have a ministry." Those who hold to this view often provide programs through which people can "find their ministry."
2.	The second position sees the three phrases functioning one after another as the 3 reasons why Christ gives pastors to the church. According to this view, the subject of all three phrases is the pastors of verse 11. Christ gives pastors to equip the saints. Christ gives pastors for the work of the ministry. Christ gives pastors for the edifying of the body of Christ.
3.	CONCLUSION: I believe the second position is what Paul is saying for these reasons:
a.	because of the clear parallel structure of the three phrases of verse 12-cf. 4:13 
b.	because of the meaning of the words equipping and ministry
1)	EQUIPPING-(KJV) for the perfecting of the saints, the word means to unite together, to bring to order-; 2 Cor. 13:11; Gal. 6:1; Hb. 13:21. David Gordon says, "[The duty of pastors is to] gather"¦, unit[e]"¦, or order"¦ the saints into visible communities and mutual cooperation."
2)	MINISTRY- 2 Tm. 4:5 (only other place where Paul uses both words together!) Timothy's work and ministry refers to Timothy's ministry of the Word of God. The context in Ephesians 4 refers back to the Pastors who teach. They were given to fulfill their ministry, that is, to lead and teach the saints by the Word of God!
c.	because of the context In the context of Ephesians 4:12ff. the pastors are active and the church is passive until verse 15 
d.	because the rest of the NT clearly teaches a distinction between official ministers of the word and general ministering-Acts 6:3, 4; 13:2-5; 2 Tm. 4:1-5; 1 Tm. 5:17; Jms. 3:1.

David Gordon has an article on this somewhere - I can't remember wehre. I think it's in one of the journals.


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## fredtgreco (May 26, 2005)

Rich,

I agree with you.

The article in question is:

T. David Gordon, " 'Equipping' Ministry in Ephesians 4?" JETS 37 (1994): 69-78



> "EQUIPPING" MINISTRY IN EPHESIANS 4?
> T. David Gordon
> JETS, 37/1 (March 1994) 69-78
> 
> ...


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## Rich Barcellos (May 26, 2005)

Yes; that's the article! Thanks, brother. That's a great article, btw. I was taught the other view in seminary, but when I got into the text and understood the exegetical arguments, it became clear. The other view is Brethrenesque.


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## Contra_Mundum (May 27, 2005)

I read Gordon's JETS article when it was first published also. I was still in seminary, and found it very thought provoking. I think he has shown that egalitarian philosophy is driving the modern translational train, not strict exegesis.


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## larryjf (May 27, 2005)

Thank you guys very much for your responses.


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