# Angus Stewart: a 2-hour video debate on "The Charismatic Gifts and Cessationism"



## Mayflower (Dec 6, 2007)

From the Protestant church , Rev. Angus Stewart:

Cessationism Debate Video
"The Charismatic Gifts and Cessationism"—a 2-hour debate between Rev. Angus Stewart and Rev. David Antwi on Revelation TV.

Cessationism Resources


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## Mayflower (Dec 30, 2007)

Anyone see it yet ? Thoughts ?


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## blhowes (Dec 31, 2007)

Ralph,
I listened to the intro yesterday, but was too busy working around the house to listen to the whole thing. Looks like it'll be an interesting debate - I look forward to listening to the rest of it later this week. 
Thanks for posting it,
Bob


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

watching now...


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

Couple of early observances:

Con:

2 Corinthians 12:12 (English Standard Version)

12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

Moderator makes a good point - Con, to what do you attribute these modern signs among the people of God?

Con - non-apostolic answers to prayer, emotionalism, plants, satanic influences...and satanic/false miracles.

He also makes a good point that the Unitarian and other pagan religions claim miracles - and states that God allows the miracles to test the trueness of their faith.

Moderator calls out that false and true miracles can exist together - and why should we not pray for the dead to be raised as a sign and wonder?

(Thus far, very interesting - the moderator is a pro-sign and wonder, so it is like 2 on one...the guest Pro is not so active, though...)


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

I find it interesting that the Mod keeps using:

Matthew 7:22
On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'

- to validate modern signs and wonders...basically using the negative proposition to affirm the assertion.


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

1 Peter 1:8 (English Standard Version)

8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,

Good point for Con - rebutting those that claim they have seen Jesus and received new revelation.


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

hmmm - Con could be clearer that he doesn't have a problem with modern miracles, _per se_ - it's that he disagrees with miracles as signs and wonders validating _*modern*_ apostolic ministry.

Mod is pro and claims to have seen miracle healings and resurrections - again - he confuses normative miracles with apostolic miracles, but it seems they are getting on track...


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

Angus (Con), in my opinion, just gave a beautiful summation of the gospel and the reformed faith around 45 minutes in! Amen!


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

wow - I am seeing some real eisegesis from the Pro side...


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## Mayflower (Dec 31, 2007)

jdlongmire said:


> 1 Peter 1:8 (English Standard Version)
> 
> 8 Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory,
> 
> Good point for Con - rebutting those that claim they have seen Jesus and received new revelation.



I think that Angus Stewart did a great job, but iam not sure what to think about the fact that he used 1 Peter 1:8 as a prove that all these claims are false. What about Paul when he met Christ on his way to Damascus,and what about those Muslims whom got converted, and whom claim that they have not met a missionary but Christ appeared to them, is this al false, knowing the testimony and persecution they got in these Islam countries ?


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## MeanieCalvinist (Dec 31, 2007)

*Broken Link?*



Mayflower said:


> From the Protestant church , Rev. Angus Stewart:
> 
> Cessationism Debate Video
> "The Charismatic Gifts and Cessationism"—a 2-hour debate between Rev. Angus Stewart and Rev. David Antwi on Revelation TV.
> ...



I've tried the link above, but all I get when I click on the debate is this:
________________________________________________________________
<ASX version="3">
<Entry>
<ref href="http://www.cprc.co.uk/cessationismdebate.asf" />
</Entry>
</ASX>
________________________________________________________________

What the heck is that? Anyone know?


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## AV1611 (Dec 31, 2007)

MeanieCalvinist said:


> I've tried the link above, but all I get when I click on the debate is this:
> ________________________________________________________________
> <ASX version="3">
> <Entry>
> ...


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

I could only get it to work in IE...


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## BlackCalvinist (Dec 31, 2007)

The .asf file is the actual movie file. 

It's 341MB.

Apparently, they don't have everything coded right for it to automatically stream.

I'm downloading it, and I'll open it with iMovie or QuickTime player, change it to QuickTime format and then watch it.


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## panta dokimazete (Dec 31, 2007)

Mayflower said:


> jdlongmire said:
> 
> 
> > 1 Peter 1:8 (English Standard Version)
> ...



The difference is Paul's apostolic ministry was not only initiated by Christ, but validated by the disciples.

As for the Muslim's claiming Christ...I do not know, but I do know that plenty of pagan and false faiths have their martyrs.


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