# Christless Christianity by Michael Horton



## Grace Alone (Oct 28, 2008)

I just read the first chapter of Michael Horton's new book and thought I'd share the link:

http://www.christlesschristianity.org/images/CC-Book-Excerpt.pdf

Has anyone read the whole book?


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## SolaGratia (Oct 28, 2008)

I have not read the whole book yet, but I am glad someone within the Reformed community is addressing these issues in America, if not the world, especially in a very wise, objective, and caring manner; in other words in a biblical way.


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## staythecourse (Oct 28, 2008)

I appreciate Horton. He open my eyes wide with "Putting the Amazing Back in Grace." My SB Arminian pastors laughed nervously when I read it back in the day.

I should read this too to knock off clinging legalism, like barnacles on a docked ship.


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## SolaGratia (Oct 28, 2008)

I like the fact that for Horton it is not enough for him to be only a pastor, seminary professor, writer, editor, speaker, husband, brother, etc. in the church and outside the church. 

Hmmm! reminds me offffffff Luther.


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## Theogenes (Oct 28, 2008)

I got my copy last week and haven't read it yet...


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 28, 2008)

This whole year the White Horse Inn and Modern Reformation have been devoted to the topic. I recommend folks purchase back issues of MR.


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## MW (Oct 28, 2008)

I hope the ship isn't dinged in the process of knocking off barnacles.


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 28, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> I hope the ship isn't dinged in the process of knocking off barnacles.



I don't know how much you've been following the show. If anything they are critical of a view of sanctification that would do that. In fact, in the last show they sort of gave the Baptist a bit of a hard time on the point that the Church is a mixture of wheat and tares. Ken wasn't really going to get into it in a short show but he acknowledged that his view of the Church is that it is imperfect as well.

Primarily the year has dealt with the fact that the Gospel has all but disappeared in most Churches and that the Church is largely gnostic and self-help oriented these days. It has been a very incisive critique, across the board, of what ails Evangelicalism these days. They consistently hold up Word and Sacrament as the solution.


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## Pilgrim (Oct 28, 2008)

Grace Alone said:


> I just read the first chapter of Michael Horton's new book and thought I'd share the link:
> 
> http://www.christlesschristianity.org/images/CC-Book-Excerpt.pdf
> 
> Has anyone read the whole book?



According to Amazon it will be released Nov. 1.


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## MW (Oct 28, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> I don't know how much you've been following the show. If anything they are critical of a view of sanctification that would do that.



Rich, I haven't read the book in question; I have read "The Law of Perfect Freedom" and was surprised to see the fourth commandment treated as ceremonial. It seems to me that folk can become too intent on avoiding legalism and thereby miss the voice of Christ beckoning us to take His yoke upon us.


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## Contra_Mundum (Oct 28, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know how much you've been following the show. If anything they are critical of a view of sanctification that would do that.
> ...



For what it's worth, I've heard he's come to a more Puritan appreciative view since.


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 28, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know how much you've been following the show. If anything they are critical of a view of sanctification that would do that.
> ...



Roger. That really hasn't been the focus so much in this series. I think what you see in the show is a counter to what amounts to Pelagian views of the Gospel at large in America - the criticism is always going to underline the nature of Gospel as Christ's work and not our own. They really don't spend too much time exploring the Law/Gospel thing when it gets closer to the Confession's understanding of the Third use for obvious reasons that there's a Lutheran on the panel. They sort of operate in the hallway between their Confessions.


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## MW (Oct 28, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> For what it's worth, I've heard he's come to a more Puritan appreciative view since.



Thanks for the info, and warmly received if that is the case; do you know if there is any written source for this?


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## MW (Oct 28, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> Roger. That really hasn't been the focus so much in this series. I think what you see in the show is a counter to what amounts to Pelagian views of the Gospel at large in America - the criticism is always going to underline the nature of Gospel as Christ's work and not our own. They really don't spend too much time exploring the Law/Gospel thing when it gets closer to the Confession for obvious reasons that there's a Lutheran on the panel. They sort of operate in the hallway between their Confessions.



He has an excellent article in Westminster Confession into the 21st Century dealing with Finney's attacks on the Confession, where he notes that fundamentalism and modernism in fact share the same root belief in man's inherent moral ability.


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## Contra_Mundum (Oct 28, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> > For what it's worth, I've heard he's come to a more Puritan appreciative view since.
> ...



You might drop a line to RSC for that. He was my source, I believe.


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## Grace Alone (Oct 28, 2008)

A couple of reviews were posted on Amazon tonight, including one by Tim Challies who is a reformed reviewer:

Amazon.com: Christless Christianity: The Alternative Gospel of the American Church: Michael Horton: Books


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## Berit (Oct 29, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> > For what it's worth, I've heard he's come to a more Puritan appreciative view since.
> ...



Matthew,

You can find Horton upholding the 4th commandment in a chapter in "A Better Way: Rediscovering the Drama of God-Centered Worship." Where he not only upholds but defends it as well.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 5, 2008)

SolaGratia said:


> I like the fact that for Horton it is not enough for him to be only a pastor, seminary professor, writer, editor, speaker, husband, brother, etc. in the church and outside the church.
> 
> Hmmm! reminds me offffffff Luther.



Well to be fair to Luther he had a much different understanding of the relationship between the state and the church than does Dr. Horton...


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## SolaGratia (Nov 5, 2008)

I was referring to how Horton has been active like Luther by Horton taking additional roles besides just being a seminary professor. Luther was not only a pastor but played other active roles. I am also not saying that Horton equals Luther and that all other pastors must be like Luther and/or Horton. Luther is Luther like Calvin is Calvin, just like Horton is Horton. Therefore Horton personally "reminds me" to be really fair.


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## SolaGratia (Nov 5, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> SolaGratia said:
> 
> 
> > I like the fact that for Horton it is not enough for him to be only a pastor, seminary professor, writer, editor, speaker, husband, brother, etc. in the church and outside the church.
> ...



Political and church matters were different at that time. Luther help tear down these institutions of King and Pope ruling instead of God's Holy Word. Horton does not lived under King and Pope and so do you thanks to Luther. However, Horton will tell you to lived under culture and church as you must do because of God's Holy Word.


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## caddy (Nov 5, 2008)

Grace Alone said:


> I just read the first chapter of Michael Horton's new book and thought I'd share the link:
> 
> http://www.christlesschristianity.org/images/CC-Book-Excerpt.pdf
> 
> Has anyone read the whole book?


 
No, but I ordered it earlier today...


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## caddy (Nov 5, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> This whole year the White Horse Inn and Modern Reformation have been devoted to the topic. I recommend folks purchase back issues of MR.


 
I totally agree Rich! That's one Magazine I try to read cover to cover! There's just so much meat in it...!


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## jd.morrison (Nov 5, 2008)

I often get told by my family and friends that addressing such issues is counter to the Gospel and turns people away from the church and that the average joe christian doesn't care about such issues because it is a "non-essential"...

I am glad to hear that I am not insane...


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## MMasztal (Nov 28, 2008)

I just finished reading "Christless Christianity". It was good--- basically a rehash of what they've been talking about all year on The White Horse Inn. I highly recommend it though as Horton identifies what, in my opinion also, is the biggest threat to Chriatianity today. 

I also received the DVD which is a 4-part lecture given by Horton. Sadly, I found Horton to be all over the place with his lectures and I had difficulty following his train of thought which is a significant given the fact that I am quite familiar with the theme and content of the book. I was hoping to use the DVD at the school where I teach, but my students would only be confused.

Ditto on caddy's Modern Reformation magazine recommendation. I read it cover to cover.

Next up- Jesus: Made in America


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## discipulo (Dec 3, 2008)

*Michael S. Horton Related Article published on Modern Reformation*

Hi

To those interested in this topic, quite a relevant and decisive one indeed,

and who may not yet achieved the book or prefer a shorter reading on the 

subject first,

I attached a PDF I assembled with Michael S. Horton’s article 

Christless Christianity: Getting in Christ's Way, 

published in the magazine Modern Reformation 

May/June 2007 Vol: 16 Num: 3

Hoping it will be beneficial in some way.

Discipulo (Disciple in Portuguese and in Portugal : )


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