# Holy Spirit indwelling in OT



## Matthew1344 (Feb 20, 2015)

And she said, “The Philistines are upon you, Samson!” And he awoke from his sleep and said, “I will go out as at other times and shake myself free.” But he did not know that the LORD had left him. - Judges 16:20

Did the Holy Sprit permanently indwelling OT believers?


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## earl40 (Feb 20, 2015)

Matthew1344 said:


> And she said, “The Philistines are upon you, Samson!” And he awoke from his sleep and said, “I will go out as at other times and shake myself free.” But he did not know that the LORD had left him. - Judges 16:20
> 
> Did the Holy Sprit permanently indwelling OT believers?



This question depends on what you mean by "indwelling". If the indwelling means were the OT regenerate like we are in the NT then yes they were permanently indwelled. If indwelling is to mean that sometimes The Holy Spirit indwells person for a specific task then yes The Spirit can leave any time He wants. Take for instance myself. I am an ultrasound technician at a hospital. If I retire, or am let go, I no longer have The Holy Spirit indwelling, or His authority, to perform a my previous job at the hospital. (doing ultrasounds)


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## SeanAnderson (Feb 20, 2015)

Old Testament believers were of course regenerated by the Holy Spirit in the manner of New Testament believers.

But it would seem that the Spirit was not as strongly operative among the OT Church and did not grant assurance to the extent that He did after Pentecost, when He was given as a seal of Christ's promise.


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## PaulMc (Feb 20, 2015)

Owen (Works, 3:211-212) says:

Both regeneration and the doctrine of it were under the _Old Testament_. All the elect of God, in their several generations, were regenerate by the Spirit of God. But in that implication and enlargement of truth and grace under the gospel which came by Jesus Christ, who brought life and immortality to light, as more persons than of old were to be made partakers of the mercy of it, so the nature of the work itself is far more clearly, evidently, and distinctly revealed and declared. And because this is the principal and internal remedy of that disease which the Lord Christ came to cure and take away, one of the first things that he preached was the doctrine of it. All things of this nature before, even "from the beginning of the world, lay hid in God," Eph. iii.9. Some intimations were given of them, in "parables" and "dark sayings", Ps. lxxviii. 2, in types, shadows and ceremonies, so as the nature of the grace in them was not clearly to be discerned.


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## Jeri Tanner (Feb 20, 2015)

Christ said, "I will be in you," as if that had not been the norm at all for the regenerate, and the epistles seem to make that indwelling presence to be a benefit of the new covenant. So wouldn't it be right to go ahead and say that Old Testament believers did not have the Spirit's indwelling presence as we now do?


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## Contra_Mundum (Feb 20, 2015)

Jeri Tanner said:


> wouldn't it be right to go ahead and say that Old Testament believers did not have the Spirit's indwelling presence as we now do?



That's true, so far as the *manner* of it goes, but not so in the _matter_.

Powerful demonstrations of Holy Spirit's indwelling presence were reserved before Christ for persons whose work it was to prefigure the Mediator's, him who should be anointed "above measure" for his task. So, prophets, priests, and kings found in the OT record.

But regeneration is forever the work of Holy Spirit; and the effects of regeneration are also properly his active work, not simply residual. But the power of his working was limited and muted, to fit with the era of limitations and shadowy types. His exhibited work was not only restrained to a few individuals in any generation, but also apparently less energetic in the redeemed soul (which highlighted the strongly demonstrated blessed gift in the few); and certainly he made effectual calling to fewer persons in the world overall, mostly in one nation in the whole world, and (depending on the generation) allowed significant apostasy among even them.

But all this had the end of a greater blessing in the future (Pentecost) made more conspicuous. I liken Holy Spirit's work in the former era to the output of an eyedropper; whereas in the NT age, we have the imagery of a bucket outpoured, a deluge, copious rain. Still, the same Spirit doing the same essential work, however.


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## Jeri Tanner (Feb 20, 2015)

Thanks, Reverend Buchanan, that's helpful.


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## Matthew1344 (Feb 21, 2015)

So he lived in OT saints just like he does me. Works acts of faith just like he does me.

But the difference after Pentecost is that he does it in more people now?


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## Contra_Mundum (Feb 21, 2015)

Matthew1344 said:


> But the difference after Pentecost is that he does it in more people now?



Not simply that there are more saved today. Jesus said, "I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John. Yet the one who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he," Lk.7:28. John stood in the first rank of OT persons. Just think of his gifts, and how they were displayed! Fantastic. And yet, the least saint of today is the beneficiary of a tremendous behest. We might compare our spiritual advantages to the secular fact that the relative poor among us in the affluent West live with many luxuries that would have made kings of old go pale with envy.

Just like you could tell the difference between a few drops of water, and a downpour; the outpouring of the the Spirit means more than there's a few more drops for a few more people. There is a qualitative measure to the difference in what the believer possesses.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 21, 2015)

Matthew1344 said:


> And she said, “The Philistines are upon you, Samson!” And he awoke from his sleep and said, “I will go out as at other times and shake myself free.” But he did not know that the LORD had left him. - Judges 16:20
> 
> Did the Holy Sprit permanently indwelling OT believers?



Here's a less than scholarly paper on the subject if you dare:

The Holy Spirit in the Covenant of Grace


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## PuritanCovenanter (Feb 21, 2015)

The Lord departed from Samson. God removed his favor and liberty in the Spirit for disobedience. Is this not true for us if we continue in an unrepentant sin or sin in a way that is abhorrent to God on a major level? Why take this passage to try to build and understand a doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit? It seems the question in the OP is pushing itself upon the text when it probably shouldn't be the focus here. 

I could be incorrect in my assessment, but the focus might better suit us if we don't try to build a doctrine that the question in the OP is striving for here. There are other solid places for that.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 22, 2015)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> The Lord departed from Samson. God removed his favor and liberty in the Spirit for disobedience. Is this not true for us if we continue in an unrepentant sin or sin in a way that is abhorrent to God on a major level? Why take this passage to try to build and understand a doctrine concerning the Holy Spirit? It seems the question in the OP is pushing itself upon the text when it probably shouldn't be the focus here.
> 
> I could be incorrect in my assessment, but the focus might better suit us if we don't try to build a doctrine that the question in the OP is striving for here. There are other solid places for that.



I'm w/ Randy on this; the distinction between the indwelling that all believers have that is secondary to being sons of God and theocratic anointings, i.e. a amplification of the spirit for kingdom business must be considered. In this case, this amplification was removed from Samson. It was not that he lost the indwelling spirt altogether, but that special anointing alone. Example: The gift of miracles is no longer active in God's people. Once that dispensation had been fulfilled, the Lord 'removed' that increased blessing from the church.


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## Matthew1344 (Feb 22, 2015)

Scott Bushey said:


> Matthew1344 said:
> 
> 
> > And she said, “The Philistines are upon you, Samson!” And he awoke from his sleep and said, “I will go out as at other times and shake myself free.” But he did not know that the LORD had left him. - Judges 16:20
> ...



This is good. I am only like 33 percent finished though, but so far i really like it. Thanks for sharing.


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## psycheives (Feb 23, 2015)

earl40 said:


> This question depends on what you mean by "indwelling". If the indwelling means were the OT regenerate like we are in the NT then yes they were permanently indwelled. If indwelling is to mean that sometimes The Holy Spirit indwells person for a specific task then yes The Spirit can leave any time He wants.



I agree with Earl's statement (and Bruce etc ). The authors (including James Hamilton, Bruce Ware) I read who wrote books and journal articles rejecting the Holy Spirit's indwelling old covenant (not OT because they teach the HS indwelling occurred at Jesus' ascension) believers seemed to repeatedly confuse "indwelling for regeneration/union with Christ" with "indwelling for imparting spiritual gifts/powers." They took selected verses (not every verse for an accurate account) that mentioned "indwelling" and seemed to have assumed these all referred to "indwelling for regeneration/union with Christ." Thus it can be incorrectly assumed that the Holy Spirit "indwelling for union" has come upon or left an individual, when really "indwelling for extraordinary gifts" is being described. The context of the verses demonstrate different meanings of "indwelling."

One of the major issues with rejecting OC indwelling is that you run the risk of teaching OC believers were saved in a different way than new covenant believers. If OC believers were not indwelt, how were they united to Christ? How did they abide in Christ/the true vine? How were old covenant believers sanctified and how did they persevere? Splitting OC and NC saints at the book of Acts 2/Pentecost, many Dispensationalists (especially Classical Dispensationalists) have historically rejected "OC indwelling" and many also "OC regeneration" but I have not come across an adequate explanation for how OC saints partook of Christ's benefits (regeneration, justification, adoption, sanctification, perseverance, etc) *without* union with Christ Himself. We would not want to affirm that one can have Christ's benefits apart from Christ.

Anyone who is not indwelt by the Holy Spirit does not belong to God:



> For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God’s law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God. ‎‎You, however, are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if in fact the Spirit of God dwells in you. Anyone who does not have the Spirit of Christ does not belong to him. (Romans 8:7-11 [ESV])




When James Hamilton rejects indwelling, he also seems to reject God's abiding presence in OC believers: "[Indwelling] refers to God's abiding, positive, covenant presence in believers through the Spirit." Hamilton, God's Indwelling Presence, 2-3. However, if I understand the verses correctly, the bible demonstrates Old Covenant believers (prior to Pentecost in the book of Acts, remember!) did abide in Christ/were united to Christ here and other passages:



> I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. ‎... ‎Abide in me, and I in you. ... I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. ‎‎... If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love. (John 15:1–10; also see John 14:23, 17:20-23; 1 John 2:24–25)



Old Testament uses of "in" and "with" show that both terms are used to describe "indwelling" (but one must determine by context which kind of indwelling is being written about) such as: "I have filled him with the Spirit of God" (‎‎Ex 31:3; also see Ex 28:3, 35:31) and "a man in whom is the Spirit of God" (Nu 27:18; Dt 34:9; Ge 40:8-41:38; Daniel 4:8-5:11; Ez 37:11-14). Throughout the Old Testament, the Holy Spirit is described as being "in," "stir in," "with" "filled with," "full of," "on," "upon," "rushed upon," "clothed," "given to," in order to gift people with the gifts and abilities of interpreting dreams, prophesying, knowledge, wisdom, skill, intelligence, judgment, physical strength, and many more. It is important to recognize Scripture refers to the Spirit's giving of extraordinary gifts as "indwelling." 

These verses must not be confused with the Holy Spirit's "indwelling for union" and used as a way of claiming one can lose their salvation or used to deny "indwelling for union." I cannot see how one does not end up teaching one way of salvation for Old Covenant believers and another way of salvation for New Covenant believers when they reject "indwelling for union for OC believers," as many dispensationalists have long been accused of doing.


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