# This Kinda Breaks My Heart



## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2009)

A friend posted this (critically) on his FB page. I watched it, and it just depressed me. This is what passes for "success" and "worship" in our country today.

[video=youtube;9yiuSvoqxWw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yiuSvoqxWw&feature=player_embedded[/video]

I do hope the gospel is being preached there, I really do. Because otherwise a lot of souls are being led to hell on the altar of entertainment.

Light sabers, gymnasts, motorcycles -- somehow I don't think this is what's missing.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2009)

Josh, I know of at least two families in my old ARP church that left and went to NewSpring because of all the fun and games. The pastor of my old church (he is on the PB) preaches the gospel faithfully every week, and the people flock after this garbage. An elder and his wife and daughter was one of the families that left. I know him very well, he's a nice guy and all, but the only reason he left was because all of his daughter's friends went to this church; eventually he caved.


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## Idelette (Aug 27, 2009)

Yeah, this makes me really sad too.....it looks like a lot of churches in the Chicago area as well!


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## awretchsavedbygrace (Aug 27, 2009)




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## awretchsavedbygrace (Aug 27, 2009)

Watching some of this stuff really makes me sick. I also feel really bad for those who are blinded by these "churches" that are driven by entertainment. But remember, there are sound churches out there. There are alot of sound, God-centered preachers out there. And God is calling out His elect out of this rubbish.


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## OPC'n (Aug 27, 2009)

No, this pastor is not telling the Gospel! I use to visit a blog called Old Truth and Jim who ran the blog talked a lot about this guy and how he is a derelict "pastor" and criticizes those in his congregation who demand that he feed them. He tells them they are not babies and that they shouldn't be spoon fed and that they need to open their own Bibles and learn how to feed themselves. He's a sad case!


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## AThornquist (Aug 27, 2009)

Oy . . .


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## CharlieJ (Aug 27, 2009)

One of NewSpring's locations is right down the street from my house. My (unsaved) neighbor went there and came back feeling very disappointed. "The priest" (as my neighbor says) wasn't even present and the whole thing lacked "authenticity." A perceptive unbeliever, I do say.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Aug 27, 2009)

There was a pretty good reason why false teachers were treated so harshly in the Scriptures and in the early centuries of the Church and the Reformation. Spiritual Adultery is in many ways more harmful than murder.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2009)

Madcow said:


> No, this pastor is not telling the Gospel! I use to visit a blog called Old Truth and Jim who ran the blog talked a lot about this guy and how he is a derelict "pastor" and criticizes those in his congregation who demand that he feed them. He tells them they are not babies and that they shouldn't be spoon fed and that they need to open their own Bibles and learn how to feed themselves. He's a sad case!



Which pastor -- the one at NewSpring or the one at Elevation?


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## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Check out the "No Show Sunday" sermon from "Elevation Church." Just see how man-centered that garbage is.



I edited my post above. Hopefully it is less confusing.

Do you have a link of this "sermon"?


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## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2009)

Oh, that "staying home" idea isn't even original. There's a company called Outreach.com that promotes that material. Lots of churches have used it, I'm sure.

These churches try to be so "hip" and they wind up being cookie-cutter.


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## rpavich (Aug 27, 2009)

Madcow said:


> No, this pastor is not telling the Gospel! I use to visit a blog called Old Truth and Jim who ran the blog talked a lot about this guy and how he is a derelict "pastor" and criticizes those in his congregation who demand that he feed them. He tells them they are not babies and that they shouldn't be spoon fed and that they need to open their own Bibles and learn how to feed themselves. He's a sad case!




Hey!! another Old Truth alumni!!

Nice to see you still have good taste!


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## Romans 8 Verse 28 (Aug 27, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a link of this "sermon"?
> ...



That was so disgusting and man-centred that I turned it off before finishing it.


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## Pergamum (Aug 27, 2009)

WOW! 

-----Added 8/27/2009 at 06:22:36 EST-----



Marrow Man said:


> These churches try to be so "hip" and they wind up being cookie-cutter.




ha, great point!


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## AThornquist (Aug 27, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have a link of this "sermon"?
> ...



Yuck. I've heard worse but still that was bad. It was definitely man-focused.

Just to mention a bit of irony though . . . he mentioned over and over that he wanted his church to never run out of wine for the guests at the church. It almost goes without question that they use grape juice for communion.


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## OPC'n (Aug 27, 2009)

Marrow Man said:


> Madcow said:
> 
> 
> > No, this pastor is not telling the Gospel! I use to visit a blog called Old Truth and Jim who ran the blog talked a lot about this guy and how he is a derelict "pastor" and criticizes those in his congregation who demand that he feed them. He tells them they are not babies and that they shouldn't be spoon fed and that they need to open their own Bibles and learn how to feed themselves. He's a sad case!
> ...



Well, probably both, but it was Steven that Jim from Old Truth use to talk about.


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## Reforming (Aug 27, 2009)

This is disgusting. I don't really have anything constructive to say, but I wanted to say something.


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## Sonoftheday (Aug 27, 2009)

Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith Podcast did a show recently on Perry Noble and Newspring Church.

Fighting for the Faith: The Perry Noble NewSpring Church Special

And I just searched his site and he also did a show on Steven Furtick.

Fighting for the Faith: Steven Furtick's Purple People Leader

Fighting for the faith is an excellent podcast. Chris Rosebrough is a Lutheran so there is occasionally something about the sacraments that I don't agree with, but he is solid on the Law Gospel distinction. I think he was mentored by White Horse Inn's Rod Rosenbladt.


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## 80's man (Aug 27, 2009)

It reminds me of what 1 John says- if they were really among us, they would have never left us. And it is this simple- if the message of the gospel is denied, changed, or added to, it is no longer the Gospel. I find it sad as well. There have been so many times I have left these popular churches because of a lack of dicernment, faith, and proper teaching.


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## cbryant (Aug 27, 2009)

He talks about Perry Noble. Here is a clip of what you get at NewSpring [video=youtube;q9LATi7h44Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9LATi7h44Y[/video]

I guess the 5th commandment isn't enforced


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## kvanlaan (Aug 27, 2009)

Tickle My Ears Elmo, anyone?


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## asc (Aug 27, 2009)

I live right by Elevation church. It's "all the rage" amongst the youngsters.

I listened to one of his sermons tonight online; i've heard much better but i've also heard much worse.


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## Rich Koster (Aug 28, 2009)

Go to Ringling brothers, Barnum & Bailey to see the circus. That is where entertainment and stunts belong.


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## PointingToChrist (Aug 28, 2009)

This was painful to watch. I dislike megachurches in general because they have the tendency to drift towards loud entertainment and fluffy things (though that's usually the thing that turns it into a megachurch anyways).

I don't think that atheism or non-Christian religions are as big of a threat as those who claim to be Christian. At least the former know they are not Christians, but the latter come in Christ's name and show little to nothing about who he really is.


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## ewenlin (Aug 28, 2009)

Actually, how should we respond to these things? Besides talking about it on the PB.

Should we be actively engaging people who are there to try to get them out while informing as many people as possible to stay as far away as possible?

For those who are pastors or high up the denominational chain of command p), would you engage the pastor of that church?


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## Blue Tick (Aug 28, 2009)

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12



> 9 The coming of the lawless one is by the activity of Satan with all power and false signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 28, 2009)

ewenlin said:


> For those who are pastors or high up the denominational chain of command p), would you engage the pastor of that church?



Forgive me, but this is part of the problem. Because of the independent nature of this type of church, there is virtually nothing that can be done on a denominational level. About the only thing that can be done is if the congregation and/or congregational leaders begin to take exception to what is taking place, but I don't see that sort of thing happening. He is feeding them exactly what they want to eat.


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## Tim (Aug 28, 2009)

2 Timothy 3


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## D. Paul (Aug 28, 2009)

Following the original clip is another by Furtick called What is the Purpose of the Church?. In it (1:07 - 1:14) he says if the Doctrines of Grace as defined by John Calvin get you excited, you're in the wrong church. (speaking of his own Newspring)

Do you think the great majority of the congregation said "John who?"


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## rpavich (Aug 28, 2009)

D. Paul said:


> Do you think the great majority of the congregation said "John who?"



yeah...the the others answered:

"you know...the guy who murdered that nice man Michael Servetus in cold blood"


"Oh yeah..that guy...that anti Christ".


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## busdriver72 (Aug 28, 2009)

Didn't care too much for the sermon....but he did have a nifty hairdo!


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## Marrow Man (Aug 28, 2009)

D. Paul said:


> Following the original clip is another by Furtick called What is the Purpose of the Church?. In it (1:07 - 1:14) he says if the Doctrines of Grace as defined by John Calvin get you excited, you're in the wrong church. (speaking of his own Newspring)



However, if the New Measures as defined by Charles Finney get you excited, welcome home!


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## smhbbag (Aug 28, 2009)

In a related video to the one above, Perry Noble gloats over his theological critics like obnoxious high school basketball fans do in a blowout. "Scoreboard! Scoreboard!"

[video=youtube;VWjyN5u-tb0]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWjyN5u-tb0[/video]

Well, it seemed very much like he suffers from the same problem as the leader of an allied Greek city-state had when rebuking the Spartans for their lack of numbers and commitment to the fight. In this case, the scoreboard doesn't reflect reality.

[video=youtube;gI6sARmxEuc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gI6sARmxEuc&feature=related[/video]

Embedding is disabled, so you'll have to open it in another window.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 28, 2009)

I don't get the appeal. He looks and acts like a 40 year old still living in his parents' basement. He looks like he just woke up, rolled out of bed, and headed to church, not bothering to comb his hair or change his shirt. He has no respect for the preaching office that I can discern, and he leads young people to believe that as long as they jump up that means they "love Jesus." I can't believe people lap this stuff up.


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## ewenlin (Aug 28, 2009)

Ouch! 

Sigh  What a wolf in sheeps clothing

-----Added 8/28/2009 at 05:20:58 EST-----

Ouch! 

Sigh  What a wolf in sheeps clothing


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## Marrow Man (Aug 29, 2009)

Sonoftheday said:


> Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for the Faith Podcast did a show recently on Perry Noble and Newspring Church.
> 
> Fighting for the Faith: The Perry Noble NewSpring Church Special



I listened to the first hour of this show (where the host interviews a former member of NewSpring. A portion of a sermon by Noble was played. I transcribed some of the comments below, and I blog about it here.



> We have people come to this church going, ‘I want a church where I can know the pastor. I could never go to a church where I can’t know the pastor.’ You need to leave. I don’t have the time. I love my wife, I love my kids, and I won’t sacrifice my family on the ministry altar so I can come eat food that I don’t like and I can hang out with people that make me uncomfortable [faint laughter in background]. … You’ve never been told that by a pastor. That’s why he only stays at the church for two years, and then he leaves. … ‘I want to go to a church where the pastor comes to visit me in the hospital.’ No, you don’t want that. Because if I come to see you in the hospital, ya’ll know, it’s bad. The guy behind me has the bag you’re leaving the room in. ‘Well, in my last church the pastor would come.’ Well go back to your last church. … ‘I didn’t like the music last Sunday.’ Here’s the problem: you think I care [more laughter]. … You don’t understand how little I care.


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## LawrenceU (Aug 29, 2009)

Here you can see and hear Noble (what a disaster that his name is noble) give the message that Tim quoted above.
[video=youtube;HSxkhs9x98w]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HSxkhs9x98w[/video]


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## Marrow Man (Aug 29, 2009)

I just received a message from someone I know who is now a member of NewSpring. I will edit out some of the information to preserve anonymity. I've already answer him, but I would curious to see what some of the rest of you think.



> I read your recent post concerning Newspring. I am not sure if you know this, but my family and I are now members of Newspring. I attended the entire service that the video was taken from and would like you to know a little more about the church and what the pastor was trying to communicate. First, the pastor was globally issuing a challenge in his ~60 minute sermon to the church to show the love of Christ to one another. The bigger point he was trying to make was the church body should not only count on the church staff to meet the needs of fellow members and the surrounding community, they should show God's love themselves and help a person in need. I am sure this principle applies to all curches whether there are 50, 500 or 5000 members. Second, the church is very large and extremely well organized. They have individual pastors assigned to the numerous hospitals in the upstate that Newspring serves. If/when you are in the hospital a pastor will visit you, it is just unlikely that the one in the pulpit will be that individual.
> 
> Tim, I know you are a man of God and a man who I respect a lot. I have learned a lot from you and the other godly men I know .... I particularly enjoyed the sermons that I heard you preach. I always learned something from your sermons that made me grow as a christian.
> 
> ...


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## rpavich (Aug 29, 2009)

Well....that's someone who's committed to NewSpring...period.

They were very polite but basically they brought up what EVERYONE brings up when someone points out something unbiblical about their Mega church.

1.) They are "passionate about God" like nobody I've ever seen.
2.) There is so much good being done there.
3.) You took x sermon out of context.
4.) I've never heard anything unblibical while I've attended.

I must admit...the tulip thing threw me...give me a break 

that's about it.


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## AThornquist (Aug 29, 2009)

Marrow Man said:


> I don't get the appeal. He looks and acts like a 40 year old still living in his parents' basement. He looks like he just woke up, rolled out of bed, and headed to church, not bothering to comb his hair or change his shirt.



Wait... you mean he didn't do that?


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## Marrow Man (Aug 29, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > I don't get the appeal. He looks and acts like a 40 year old still living in his parents' basement. He looks like he just woke up, rolled out of bed, and headed to church, not bothering to comb his hair or change his shirt.
> ...



Actually, the Missus reminded me that the shirt he was wearing is the same as the youth were wearing for their Youth Camp (and they wore them to the worship service that evening as well, apparently). It still looks dumb, but that is much more understandable. I'd just feel better if he didn't wear one for every service. Even Driscoll wore a suit when he preached at the Crystal Cathedral!


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## rpavich (Aug 29, 2009)

Wasn't he in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" opposite Keanu Reeves?


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## AThornquist (Aug 29, 2009)

rpavich said:


> Wasn't he in "Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure" opposite Keanu Reeves?



 He got a haircut though.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 29, 2009)

rpavich said:


> Well....that's someone who's committed to NewSpring...period.
> 
> They were very polite but basically they brought up what EVERYONE brings up when someone points out something unbiblical about their Mega church.
> 
> ...



This is not just true of "megachurches." I've seen Roman Catholics and liberal mainline Protestants say very similarly things (particularly 1 and 2). I've seen enough of a former PCA friend rave about the UCC church (an "open and affirming" UCC church) he attends on FB...


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## Marrow Man (Aug 29, 2009)

Something else that is bothering me. What is this "love of Jesus" that he (and folks that go to his church) keep talking about? I mean, it's not like they define it in anything I've ever seen in these clips. Well, they say that young people jumping up and down is "loving Jesus." But it seems like I remember the Lord say, "If you love me, you will keep my commandments." I would feel more comfortable, I suppose, if I actually heard the gospel preached one time.


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## AThornquist (Aug 29, 2009)

From the clips, which could very well be taken out of important context, "loving Jesus" seems to be all or at least mostly about emotions. Thus, showing "the love of Jesus" would be our emotional response to others (sensitivity, concern, wanting to serve the needy, etc.) and "loving Jesus" would be our emotional response to him and subsequent actions, i.e. jumping up and down while crying to your favorite theologically shallow praise rift. Put simply, love equals feelings. 

_Again,_ I mean to say that charitably and fully acknowledge that the clips could give a false impression.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 29, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Put simply, love equals feelings.



Which, of course, is not biblical. Feelings may be associated with love, but feelings are not love. (Not saying you are saying otherwise, of course.)

A friend of mine from high school is now also a pastor. He did not attend seminary, and when he was ordained, he was basically asked, "Do you believe the Bible and do you love Jesus?" I'm not kidding.


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## Brian Withnell (Aug 30, 2009)

Ezekiel 22:23-31

It is scary that these think the indignation of the Lord is a small thing. While we are here, we build up the wall, and stand in the gap. But it shall not be forever. As long as the age remains, there will be a remnant, but it might not be here, and that remnant might be very small.

I will pray for mercy though ... not only for the sake of my children, but also because the Lord is gracious and merciful. I pray his praise during my children's lifetime will be because of his great mercy poured out upon the land. Otherwise I fear for the remnant that they will live in a dark time and with great sorrow.


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## charliejunfan (Aug 30, 2009)

Yeah well in Tucson next to a PCA there is a church called THE COOL CHURCH
Welcome To The Tucson Community Church


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## AThornquist (Aug 30, 2009)

charliejunfan said:


> Yeah well in Tucson next to a PCA there is a church called THE COOL CHURCH
> Welcome To The Tucson Community Church




?!?!?!?oyt98pahakjerjawfjh mfw

WHAT?! I just checked their site and I seriously need to scream into a pillow or something. That was almost as bad as some _caricatures_ of sometimes goofy/corny evangelicalism.

-----Added 8/30/2009 at 12:36:54 EST-----



> at tcc, we think god is “way cool”. Because god is so often poorly represented by religious groups, he can seem otherwise – but that's not god. When we really take the time to accurately understand god, we see how cool he really is – we do that at tcc, so “the cool church” makes sense.



. . . Ugh.


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## Solus Christus (Aug 30, 2009)

I'm still trying to figure out how one incorporates a live gymnast flipping on stage into a sermon. Let alone figure what Scriptural text would then be relevant.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 30, 2009)

Andrew, thank you for small-sizing the 'g'.


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## Beth Ellen Nagle (Aug 31, 2009)

Very sad...


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## Johan (Aug 31, 2009)

I am almost finished reading Michael Horton's book "*Christless Christianity*. Worth reading. I would say he gives answers to this phenomenon.


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## tlharvey7 (Aug 31, 2009)

*the fruit of american christianity*

these guys are what are considered the "promising future" of the church.
and we...of course... are the closed minded, keep God in a box, legalistic
pharisees.
it will get worse, and may never get better.
this is why it is so important to promote love for doctrine amounst our kids.
and this is why even "christians" need to be evangelized


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## INsearch (Sep 5, 2009)

ehh...that noble guy just kinda irritated me....he seems very fully of himself.


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## Lady of the Lake (Sep 5, 2009)

I thank God every time I realize that He's making the division between the elect and not more and more clear. 

I grieve at the offense done to the name of Christ and ask for the Spirit's intervention.

I praise God for maintaining His remnant.


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## INsearch (Sep 5, 2009)

What that Church needs is some very sound scriptural teachings..and since that doesn't happen very often...then we can only really reach them outside of their Church, and we can only hope that place hasn't confused them too much


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