# Osteen again...oy veh



## Michael (Dec 19, 2009)

I know he's an easy target and I try to restrain myself, but it was on the front page of CNN's website and I couldn't help but read: Can Joel Osteen help you pay your bills?

Some precious exerpts:



> In "It's Your Time," he writes, "If you have a burden of heavy debt, you need to announce to that debt, 'It is finished.' Look at that house payment. 'It is finished.' Look at that college loan. 'It is finished.' Look at those unpaid bills. 'It is finished.' "
> 
> Can God really wipe out your debts?
> 
> ...







> Osteen's supporters and associates suggest mainstream Christian mistrust of his success may be as much jealousy as theology.
> 
> "Have you been to church in America recently?" one aide said. "They put on a funeral. If you put on a funeral every week, eventually people stop coming."


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## lynnie (Dec 19, 2009)

Did you send in your seed faith check yet, Michael?


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## Michael (Dec 19, 2009)

Fresh outta stamps...


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## BJClark (Dec 20, 2009)

I talked to my dad a couple weeks ago, I asked him how things are at church and what they are learning..his response was 'he quit going to church and started watching Joel Osteen because he likes what he teaches better than what his preacher was preaching" I said "oh you like that it's all about 'feeling good' garbage?" And having your ears tickled??" He said 'it's better than repent or your going to hell' I said "huh?? you'd rather have your ears tickled than hear the truth???" I said, "Dad, I really hurt for you, that you'd rather be a follower of Joel than of Jesus--because Jesus doesn't say we will never have struggles--Joel might say that..but the Jesus of the Bible doesn't..maybe you should read it and see for yourself, I can give you a few verses if your interested."

needless to say he didn't want them..but I may take some time and e-mail them to him this week..


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## Southern Presbyterian (Dec 20, 2009)

Just a case of pigs wallowing in the mud or dogs returning to their vomit - that is to say, goats act like goats and sheep will follow their Shepherd.


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## DeborahtheJudge (Dec 20, 2009)

I saw a bit of that on TV. I almost died of laughter when they quoted: 

"If you have a burden of heavy debt, you need to announce to that debt, 'It is finished.' Look at that house payment. 'It is finished.' Look at that college loan. 'It is finished.' Look at those unpaid bills. 'It is finished.' "

My dad is coming to my view of things! He used to watch Osteen. Now he laughed at it too. Hopefully that will happen for your dad, too Bobbi. Remember, live as well as preach the Gospel.


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## jandrusk (Dec 20, 2009)

Yes, I just watched the video and thought the funniest part was when he said Christianity started with Abraham. Hmm. I thought it started with God.


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## SolaSaint (Dec 20, 2009)

I've found that there are many who will follow Osteen's gospel. I'm talking about church going people. He must seem sincere to many but to me he is about immature as I've ever seen. I truly think he's as lost as the ones he leads to his prosperity gospel. He is ignorant of the true gospel. I would assume he spends the majority of his study in eisegesis of scripture to make it fit his prosperity message instead of studying to understand the truth of the gospel.


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## Zenas (Dec 20, 2009)

Yeah, I'm just jealous. It's not the blatant heresy or anything like that. I just wish that I too went to or "led" a "church" in a multi-million dollar building.

The aide's criticism reveals their attitude. They're so focused on money that they can't consider any other variable. Money is what will fix their lives and provide what pleases them and money must be the reason everyone disagrees with them. They have no other answer to any question they are presented with.

Bad life? Answer: Money.

Bad marriage? Answer: Money.

Bad press? Answer: Money.


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## HeIsMyRighteousness (Dec 20, 2009)

My first thought was how dare he use the phrase "it is finished" as a spring board for getting rid of debt. You know how precious it is to read that and know Christ has satisfied the wrath of God in my place. I no longer fear the wrath of God because He finished His atoning work for my soul! Maybe I am a bit to serious about it but as of late Christ has become so much more precious to me.


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## Andres (Dec 20, 2009)

SolaSaint said:


> I've found that there are many who will follow Osteen's gospel. I'm talking about church going people. He must seem sincere to many but to me he is about immature as I've ever seen. I truly think he's as lost as the ones he leads to his prosperity gospel. He is ignorant of the true gospel. *I would assume he spends the majority of his study in eisegesis of scripture to make it fit his prosperity message *instead of studying to understand the truth of the gospel.



you're kind for giving Osteen the benefit of the doubt. I don't even think he studies the scriptures.


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## Dao (Dec 20, 2009)

How often does Joel Osteen use the word,"Jesus Christ" in his sermons?


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## Reformed Thomist (Dec 20, 2009)

Dao said:


> How often does Joel Osteen use the word,"Jesus Christ" in his sermons?



It isn't his subject matter.


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## blhowes (Dec 20, 2009)

HeIsMyRighteousness said:


> Maybe I am a bit to serious about it but as of late Christ has become so much more precious to me.


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## BJClark (Dec 20, 2009)

Dao;



> How often does Joel Osteen use the word,"Jesus Christ" in his sermons?




He's on right now, been on for about 20 minutes and he has yet to mention the name of Christ yet..He mentions God a lot, and how God will give you the last laugh..but nothing about Christ..

He has only mentioned one verse of Scripture..that was a Psalm...but he has yet to actually READ any of the Scriptures..mostly he's telling stories of ppl who have been put down and criticized and how they have been raised up in businesses and in the world--

Now this turned my ear.."In scripture it talks about Issac" is He reading it?? Nope..he's just telling it as a story about how God blessed Issac in front of his enemies..but no reading of the Word at all..edit to add..he didn't even mention the verses or book it can be located in..

Not once did he even OPEN the bible and read it..

And as far as mentioning Jesus..he did once at the very end of the program..to accept Jesus as your savior and say a little prayer...


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## au5t1n (Dec 20, 2009)

It is nothing short of blasphemous to use the words "It is finished" in that context. Do not try this at home!


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## calgal (Dec 20, 2009)

austinww said:


> It is nothing short of blasphemous to use the words "It is finished" in that context. Do not try this at home!



He had to replace "I claim victory" with something (I omitted the blasphemous ending deliberately).


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## Michael (Dec 20, 2009)

I would love to hear Osteen, or any prosperity gospel wolf, preach on Hebrews 13:5.


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 20, 2009)

Michael Turner said:


> I would love to hear Osteen, or any prosperity gospel wolf, preach on Hebrews 13:5.



I am sure they would say something along the lines of, "it is not about loving the money, it is about accepting God's blessing for you in your life." God wants you to have that Porsche. He wants you to live in a mansion. He wants you be worth millions.


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## Michael (Dec 20, 2009)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Michael Turner said:
> 
> 
> > I would love to hear Osteen, or any prosperity gospel wolf, preach on Hebrews 13:5.
> ...


Not so much the "loving money" part, but the "be content with what you have" part. That's where the real squirming would begin.


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## lynnie (Dec 20, 2009)

Michael Turner said:


> I would love to hear Osteen, or any prosperity gospel wolf, preach on Hebrews 13:5.



I personally met one faith movement pastor who said that Paul the Apostle had a lot of unbelief.


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## Michael (Dec 20, 2009)

lynnie said:


> Michael Turner said:
> 
> 
> > I would love to hear Osteen, or any prosperity gospel wolf, preach on Hebrews 13:5.
> ...


Well I'd probably get all indignant and tell him (or her  ) that Paul didn't write the Letter to the Hebrews so Paul's unbelief has absolutely nothing to do with that text. 

Kidding, of course. And I actually do somewhat favor Pauline authorship btw.

But yeah, it's nuts what they will say in order to evade God's Word.


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## Scott1 (Dec 20, 2009)

There is so much confusion in this.

It is a twisted mix of truth and error, sense and nonsense. Ripe for pop culture presentation in our media focused generation.

It appeals to our fallen nature. Someone else is responsible for our debt, God is there to be told by us to remove it, because we know God's will is we not have to honor our debts. Our fallen nature demands instant gratification to get property by vow (loan), and instant relief from the toll of repaying it.

The frightening part is how easily we can rationalize our sin and believe these kinds of distortion, this kind of self centeredness. How professing Christians can ignore their duty to God and to their neighbor in quest for self, and rationalize that sin. Even make it sound spiritual.

A few thoughts,



> *Michael Turner* quoting Mr. Osteen
> Some precious exerpts:
> 
> 
> In "It's Your Time," he writes, "If you have a burden of heavy debt, you need to announce to that debt, 'It is finished.' Look at that house payment. 'It is finished.' Look at that college loan. 'It is finished.' Look at those unpaid bills. 'It is finished.' "



Finished when you pay back what you presumed to received and vowed that you would repay. Not before, and not it you feel like it, or it is easy or convenient for you. It's about keeping your promise really to God, and to your neighbor, and not bearing false witness.



> Can God really wipe out your debts?
> 
> "It starts ... with the vision that you have to believe that God can help you to get out of debt to fulfill your dreams," Osteen said. "I don't think anything is going to happen if you don't believe, so I think that's where you start."



You may have thought the debt would allow you to accomplish your dreams, by borrowing for college or for starting a business, or buying a house.



> And what of the Bible verse that it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven? Or that Jesus preached his followers to give up all their belongings and follow him?
> 
> "Years back at least, you know you had to be poor and to show you were holy," Osteen said.



That's not years ago. It still is a common misconception that somehow being poor makes one more spiritual. That's not a cause or not a cause, not now, not a few years ago, not in the days the Apostle Paul wrote of being content whether abounding or abasing.



> Philippinians 4
> 
> 11Not that I speak in respect of want: for I have learned, in whatsoever state I am, therewith to be content.
> 
> ...



It's Christ that makes one more spiritual, including willingness to suffer to do what is right in His sight (things like care in borrow, sacrifice in repaying, discipline in spending less than one makes, spending wisely, checking idolatry and presumption in one's spending.



> "You're supposed to sacrifice everything, and I'm all for sacrifice and I believe in that, but I also believe that God wants us to be leaders. He's put gifts and talents in every person, that they're supposed to come out to the full."



No "buts" on the sacrifice part.

That needs to be part of your message, Mr. Osteen.

Christ suffered. He commands us to suffer to do right and be right, and to be willing to seek that before one's own comfort.


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## au5t1n (Dec 20, 2009)

lynnie said:


> Michael Turner said:
> 
> 
> > I would love to hear Osteen, or any prosperity gospel wolf, preach on Hebrews 13:5.
> ...



I have encountered this idea among a prosperity acquaintance as well. I mentioned the guy Paul said he left sick in some city (don't have the reference at the moment), and she said just because Paul didn't have enough faith right then, doesn't mean God's will is sickness!


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## Zenas (Dec 21, 2009)

BJClark said:


> And as far as mentioning Jesus..he did once at the very end of the program..to accept Jesus as your savior and say a little prayer...




Did he make sure to tell them to pick up their laminated ID card on the way out and provide their checking account information?


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## Marrow Man (Dec 21, 2009)

Michael Turner said:


> "If you have a burden of heavy debt, you need to announce to that debt, 'It is finished.' Look at that house payment. 'It is finished.' Look at that college loan. 'It is finished.' Look at those unpaid bills. 'It is finished.' "
> 
> ...
> 
> "It starts ... with the vision that you have to believe that God can help you to get out of debt to fulfill your dreams," Osteen said. "I don't think anything is going to happen if you don't believe, so I think that's where you start."



I don't see why everyone's getting upset. He's simply pretending the debt doesn't exist and that it's ok to spend money without consequences -- the same thing the federal gov't has been doing for years!


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## 5pointer (Jan 20, 2010)

Joel Osteen is a cancer, and will reap his reward. The gates of hell await you. Does this sound familiar?? "depart from me I never knew you"


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## Tripel (Jan 20, 2010)

I understand that people are attracted to what Osteen is preaching, but what I DON'T understand is why they stick around. Does everyone in his congregation end up wealthy and prosperous? If not, wouldn't you start to question the message?


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## Rich Koster (Jan 20, 2010)

Let's all say "Joel Osteen , YOU ARE FINISHED!!!" ........did he go away yet?

---------- Post added at 05:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------




Tripel said:


> I understand that people are attracted to what Osteen is preaching, but what I DON'T understand is why they stick around. Does everyone in his congregation end up wealthy and prosperous? If not, wouldn't you start to question the message?



No, they just become dejected and suicidal because they "don't have enough faith".

---------- Post added at 05:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:32 PM ----------




5pointer said:


> Joel Osteen is a cancer, and will reap his reward. The gates of hell await you. Does this sound familiar?? "depart from me I never knew you"


 
Swaggart's comment about Bakker?


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## tmckinney (Jan 20, 2010)

BJClark said:


> I talked to my dad a couple weeks ago, I asked him how things are at church and what they are learning..his response was 'he quit going to church and started watching Joel Osteen because he likes what he teaches better than what his preacher was preaching" I said "oh you like that it's all about 'feeling good' garbage?" And having your ears tickled??" He said 'it's better than repent or your going to hell' I said "huh?? you'd rather have your ears tickled than hear the truth???" I said, "Dad, I really hurt for you, that you'd rather be a follower of Joel than of Jesus--because Jesus doesn't say we will never have struggles--Joel might say that..but the Jesus of the Bible doesn't..maybe you should read it and see for yourself, I can give you a few verses if your interested."
> 
> needless to say he didn't want them..but I may take some time and e-mail them to him this week..



Hi Bobbi,

I can totally relate to you. Me and my wife sat down with my brother and his wife for about an hour and explained the dangers of that theology. It seemed like it went in one ear and out the other. I have to bite my tongue now everytime I hear him talking about Joel. I also know that it can only be a work of the Holy Spirit to change their position. 

He _*is*_ able.


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## coramdeo (Jan 20, 2010)

The acorn truly does not fall far from the tree. This is the same junk his dad preached years ago.


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