# Being Born Again and Being saved



## Damon Rambo (Jan 12, 2010)

I am a firm believer that the best way of demonstrating the truth of Reformed Soteriology, is to start by showing that being "saved" and being "born again" are not the same thing. I am currently doing this, but I am having difficulty with one individual who "doesn't get it." What is your best, most convincing demonstration of this distinction?

Please keep it as pithy (short) as possible.


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## Michael (Jan 12, 2010)

Not exactly sure where you are going with this, but maybe focus on the "already/not yet" aspect of salvation as opposed to simply being "born again" in Christ.


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## au5t1n (Jan 12, 2010)

I would point out that being saved _can_ mean being born again, but that it can have other meanings as well. Being saved happens, in a sense, at all the following times:

1. From eternity past
2. On the cross when Christ bore our sins
3. At your regeneration
4. At your conversion taken as a whole
5. In your personal sanctification
6. In your vindication in Christ on the day of judgment


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## TeachingTulip (Jan 12, 2010)

Damon Rambo said:


> I am a firm believer that the best way of demonstrating the truth of Reformed Soteriology, is to start by showing that being "saved" and being "born again" are not the same thing.



How are they different? What is the distinction?


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## Damon Rambo (Jan 12, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Unfortunately, in our age of revivalism run amok, there's too much emphasis on finding _points in time_ where one thinks he was "saved" or "born again." When Jesus was telling Nicodemus that a man must be born again He was simply stating a truth: that man must be regenerated before he can even _see_ the Kingdom of Heaven, much less _enter into_ it. So a man that is dead in sin cannot see His need to "be saved." On the other hand, a man that has been "born again" will not only see His need, but then _freely_ exercise faith (by grace) in Christ, wherein is his being justified is _applied_. So any man who is saved has certainly been regenerated. And any man who is regenerated will certainly be saved. Yeah, I know, not pithy, nor short. Reformed Theology just isn't drive through food. It's a full course meal at the King's table.


 
LOL. I agree with everything you have said, brother. But logically, of course, being born again precedes faith/justification.


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## KMK (Jan 13, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> > But logically, of course, being born again precedes faith/justification.
> ...


 
So.... we're waiting for a better analogy, Josh. It's all on you.


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## Wayne (Jan 13, 2010)

Joshua said:


> ... and even _that's_ a flawed analogy, since it speaks to _chronological _order, and not necessarily just _logical_ order.


 
The man is a DEEP thinker.

That's all I'm saying.


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## Wayne (Jan 13, 2010)

Joshua said:


> I got nothin'...


 
See? What did I tell you? 

DEEP.

DEEP.

Whew!


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## Wayne (Jan 13, 2010)

In the bid'ness, Damon, we call this "highjacking the thread."


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## ClayPot (Jan 13, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> > But logically, of course, being born again precedes faith/justification.
> ...


 
Just a shot, but I've heard regeneration and faith compared to a cue ball hitting another ball on the pool table. They hit each other at the same time, but the cue ball is what causes the other ball to launch forward. But perhaps this suffers from the same temporal problem . . .


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## KMK (Jan 13, 2010)

How about this: A woman discovers she is pregnant. She doesn't know exactly when life began inside her, _nor does she care_. All she knows is that, logically, the sperm fertilized her egg before the life began. In the same way, no one knows the exact moment a man obtains eternal life, _nor does anyone care_, but, logically, we know that regeneration must have already occurred. 

Check and mate!


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## rbcbob (Jan 13, 2010)

Being "born again" is unilaterally and instantaneously accomplished by our sovereign God. Being "saved" (understanding SALVATION to be an umbrella term taking in election, calling, regeneration, faith and repentance, sanctification, and glorification) is that which those chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world have some participation and cooperation.


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## Claudiu (Jan 13, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Unfortunately, in our age of revivalism run amok, there's too much emphasis on finding _points in time_ where one thinks he was "saved" or "born again."


 

I found this true before I started attending a reformed church. When it came to Salvation people in the Pent. church would ask me to pinpoint the time in my life that I "came to faith/was saved/born again" (tying all these together as if they mean the same thing). Looking at my life I understamd that my salvation was over a longer period of time and it was not like it just happened one day where I said "Today I'm following Christ."


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## TeachingTulip (Jan 13, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> Being "born again" is unilaterally and instantaneously accomplished by our sovereign God. Being "saved" (understanding SALVATION to be an umbrella term taking in election, calling, regeneration, faith and repentance, sanctification, and glorification) is that which those chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world have some participation and cooperation.



So you make distinction between these terms, by saying spiritual birth from above is monergistic, but salvation (incorporating all the terms above) is synergistic?

It is my belief that "election, calling, regeneration, faith, repentance, sanctification, and glorification" are all monergistic works of sovereign God; requiring no co-operation on the part of the sinner at all. 

The saved sinner experiences and benefits from all the above, according to the free grace bestowed by the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, alone.

But perhaps I am misunderstanding your point . . .


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## KMK (Jan 13, 2010)

TeachingTulip said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > Being "born again" is unilaterally and instantaneously accomplished by our sovereign God. Being "saved" (understanding SALVATION to be an umbrella term taking in election, calling, regeneration, faith and repentance, sanctification, and glorification) is that which those chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world have some participation and cooperation.
> ...


 
Sanctification is certainly not synergistic, but could we say there is 'participation' on the part of the one being sanctified?

LBC 13:3 . In which war, although the remaining corruption for a time may much prevail,10 yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does *overcome*;11 and so the saints *grow* in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God, *pressing* after an heavenly life, in evangelical obedience to all the commands which Christ as Head and King, in his Word has prescribed to them.


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## rbcbob (Jan 13, 2010)

TeachingTulip said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > Being "born again" is unilaterally and instantaneously accomplished by our sovereign God. Being "saved" (understanding SALVATION to be an umbrella term taking in election, calling, regeneration, faith and repentance, sanctification, and glorification) is that which those chosen in Christ from the foundation of the world have some participation and cooperation.
> ...



It is well established in Reformed Theology that the regenerate work ενεργεω in cooperation with God in their sanctification (Phil 2:12-13). They are likewise active, not passive in repenting and believing.

This is not to overlook that God has ordained our believing, repenting, and pursuing holiness.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 13, 2010)

KMK said:


> TeachingTulip said:
> 
> 
> > rbcbob said:
> ...


 
I prefer using the word conscious..lol Regeneration comes without any consciousness on man's part. We are not even aware of it. faith, repentance, sanctification, and glorification, man is conscious of this operation.


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## TeachingTulip (Jan 13, 2010)

KMK said:


> TeachingTulip said:
> 
> 
> > rbcbob said:
> ...




"We" can, indeed! 

For example, I believe that even though faith is a gift and repentance is granted by God, a believer's faith and repentance are manifested through his very actions.


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## cih1355 (Jan 20, 2010)

Salvation is a broad term that includes election, effectual calling, regeneration, conversion, justification, adoption, sanctification, glorification, and so on. Salvation has different aspects. 

Being born again is the same as regeneration, which has to do with the creation of new life.


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## etexas (Jan 20, 2010)

I do not have an "issue" using born again.....AS LONG as the proper context is used. If a fellow Reformed Christian who was solid in grasping a solid Biblical based understanding at "worst" I would simply view it as "short-hand", on the flip................if someone were hazy on the idea, I might ask for clarification. To me it would be the "context".


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## dudley (Feb 13, 2010)

*I believe one must be born again first*

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.

II Cor. 5: 17

My conversion was being born again and regenerated. When I accepted Christ alone as my savior and believed that His Redemptive act on Calvary alone would save my sinful natured self, I was born again and regenerated. There was nothing I could do to save myself. I believe I was saved when I made a public confession of faith as a Reformed Protestant in the Presbyterian church. 

Thus I believe being saved and being born again coincide with each other, but I believe one needs to be born again first than by professing faith in Christ alone one is saved.


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