# Suicide



## Scott Shahan (Nov 16, 2006)

Just found out that a friend of mine hung himself last week. I shared the gospel with him several times. I met Cory in the AA 12 step Program. I tried to help him get clean and sober, he struggled with alcohol for years. The Lord blessed me with the gift of Sobriety 18 years ago. His death has made me thing about suicide, not personally but theologically. I am not sure how to think about it. It is hard for me to think that a regenerated believer in Christ could take their own life. Maybe Christians can commit the sin of suicide, I do not know. I am not saying that Cory was a Christian I do not know. The issue of suicide and how to think about it is not clear to me. It is obvious that suicide is a sin. But in terms of everlasting life Cory is somewhere right now as I write this. He is either in Heaven right now or he is in Hell. Anyone have any thoughts on the issue of suicide? Here is something that John Piper wrote concerning suicide;

http://www.desiringgod.org/Resource...n_for_a_Christian_Who_Committed_Suicide_1988/

Scott


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## ChristopherPaul (Nov 16, 2006)

I am sorry to hear about your friend Scott.

Suicide is not the unpardonable sin.

Many of the martyrs mentioned in Foxe's book of Martyrs technically committed suicide. 

Saints have committed this sin, Samson is one who committed suicide.

It is a sin that we cannot repent of - at least while in the flesh.


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## caddy (Nov 16, 2006)

Augustine's views on it where pretty harsh as to the outcome, but I do not think scripture bears that out. There are many examples of that most horrible act, as Christopher points out above. I think we will see many in heaven.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 16, 2006)

Scott -- I am so sorry for your loss. May God grant you and the others in Cory's life much grace as you deal with this tragic event.  

I lost my brother to suicide last year, and I understand how painful it is. 

There have been a few threads previously which have discussed this issue, including this and this.

I'll reiterate what I think is a wise quote from Samuel Miller (author of _The Guilt, Folly, and Sources of Suicide_):



> But perhaps it will be asked, "Can we entertain no hope of the final salvation of one who destroys his own life?" This is a question which it ill becomes a blind and erring mortal to decide. It is possible that a child of God may be so far under the power of mental derangement, as to rush unbidden into the presence of his Father. I believe that instances of this kind have sometimes occurred; and, if so, concerning the salvation of such persons no doubt can be entertained. But it may be questioned, on very solid ground, whether a real Christian, in the exercise of his reason, ever became his own executioner.
> 
> Let those inclined to adopt a more favorable opinion, ponder well that solemn declaration of the Spirit of God, "No murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" (1 John 3:15). How small, then, is the proportion of self-murderers for whom we can cherish the least hope beyond the grave! When men leave the world in an act of daring and deliberate rebellion against God, distrusting his providence, agitated by the worst of passions, and trampling upon all the obligations which bind them to their Creator and their fellow men, how can Charity herself avoid considering them as "strangers from the covenants of promise"(Eph. 2:12), and weeping over them as "children of perdition!" (cf. John 17:12).
> 
> This conclusion will be confirmed, if we look into the sacred history, and examine the characters of Saul, Ahithophel, and Judas, the only instances of suicide which the pen of inspiration has recorded. Do we discover in the last moments of these wretched self-destroyers anything to warrant a hope concerning their state after death? Alas! no. We find them throughout manifesting that spirit of pride and enmity to God, and that hateful compound of malice and despair, which characterize the fiend, and which torture the bosoms of the accursed in their dark abodes.


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## Scott Shahan (Nov 16, 2006)

caddy said:


> Augustine's views on it where pretty harsh as to the outcome, but I do not think scripture bears that out. There are many examples of that most horrible act, as Christopher points out above. I think we will see many in heaven.



I struggle when thinking about this.....To commit suicide one would have to be in a "hopelessness" state, I would think. But for the believer there is never a "hopelessness state" is there? There is always "Hope", because our hope is in Christ. Likewise to kill oneself one would have to be in a pretty "dark" place spiritually. But a believer has much light: Jesus is the light of the world; a believer is never totally in darkness are they? I just have a hard time thinking that a believer can kill themselves. It is just strange to think in these terms. Would the Holy Spirit prompt someone to kill themselves? This makes me think of the soldier in Iraq that threw himself on a gernade to save his fellow soldiers. Did the soldier kill himself? yes, but his actions saved his fellow soldiers so I do not think that they would call this suicide. The soldiers actions were not selfish but rather they were unselfish.


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## ChristopherPaul (Nov 16, 2006)

trevorjohnson said:


> The Roman martyrs did not technically commit suicide.
> 
> We cannot control the actions of others and if someone wants to kill us and we refrain from fleeing or fighting for sake of the Gospel witness, this is not suicidal.
> 
> If this were applied, then Jesus too, technically committed suicide (he did not flee or fight).




*From Foxes Christian Martyrs of the World:*




> Finally brought back in [to the arena] to be killed by gladiators, Perpetua was assigned to a trembling young man who stabbed her weakly several times, not being used to such scenes of violence. When she saw how upset the young man was, Perpetua guided his sword to a vital area and died.
> 
> --A.D. 200





> Apollonia, an old woman nearly seventy, confessed that she was a Christian, and the mob fastened her to a stake, preparing to burn her. She begged to be let loose and the mob untied her, thinking she was ready to recant, but to their astonishment, she immediately threw herself back into the flames and died.
> 
> --A.D. 235


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## staythecourse (Nov 16, 2006)

*Part of my testimony*

To give you hope that you will see your friend again, 15 or so years ago, I OD'd to end my life. Even said my prayers and asked the Lord to forgive me. It was all over for me, meaning, in my book, it was all over but the shouting. I woke up the next day, depressed I was still alive - in shocked disbelief as a matter of fact. This was all post conversion. I WAS dead if you get my drift whether or not I actually died. The sin of suicide was commited even if my body or God said 'no'. Also, biblically I cannot see where the truly terrible sin of suicide necessitates hell. We have some terrible examples (Saul, Samson, Judas) but Samson (though a big baby) did make it to Hebrews list of people of faith. This is my experience. Please feel free to use Scripture for a more thorough analysis sages.


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## Bladestunner316 (Nov 17, 2006)

Scott,
I'm so sorry to hear this  Will be praying for you that the Lord will bring comofrt to your heart over this


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## alwaysreforming (Nov 17, 2006)

We've also had this topic before, and some of these answers might be useful to you as well.

http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php?t=3261&highlight=suicide


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## ChristopherPaul (Nov 17, 2006)

trevorjohnson said:


> Chris;
> 
> Regarding Perpetua from other sources, she guided the sword to a vital organ to help her executioner - she did not kill herself, but was trying to ease the pain of a clumsy execution. This is much like taking morphine during terminal cancer to ease one's pain - even though such a practice usually hastens death a bit. This was no suicide.
> 
> ...



Ok. I never suggested that the Martyrs were committing suicide by simply dieing for their faith which I see you figured out from my reply.

Regardless, these persecuted Christians are regenerate sinners like you and me – they are able to make mistakes.

Samson was going to die anyway I suppose, but he is still credited with the sin of suicide.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 17, 2006)

I don't think it is accurate to say that Sampson committed suicide. Here are some helpful comments on the end of Sampson's life:

Matthew Henry:



> 3. How they were destroyed. Samson pulled the house down upon them, God no doubt putting it into his heart, as a public person, thus to avenge God's quarrel with them, Israel's, and his own. (1.) He gained strength to do it by prayer, v. 28. That strength which he had lost by sin he, like a true penitent, recovers by prayer; as David, who, when he had provoked the Spirit of grace to withdraw, prayed (Ps. li. 12), Restore unto me the joy of thy salvation, and uphold me with thy free Spirit. We may suppose that this was only a mental prayer, and that his voice was not heard (for it was made in a noisy clamorous crowd of Philistines); but, though his voice was not heard of men, yet his prayer was heard of God and graciously answered, and though he lived not to give an account himself of this his prayer, as Nehemiah did of his, yet God not only accepted it in heaven, but, by revealing it to the inspired penmen, provided for the registering of it in his church. He prayed to God to remember him and strengthen him this once, thereby owning that his strength for what he had already done he had from God, and begged it might be afforded to him once more, to give them a parting blow. That it was not from a principle of passion or personal revenge, but from a holy zeal for the glory of God and Israel, that he desired to do this, appears from God's accepting and answering the prayer. Samson died praying, so did our blessed Saviour; but Samson prayed for vengeance, Christ for forgiveness. (2.) He gained opportunity to do it by leaning on the two pillars which were the chief supports of the building, and were, it seems, so near together that he could take hold of them both at one time, v. 26, 29. Having hold of them, he bore them down with all his might, crying aloud, Let me die with the Philistines, v. 30. Animamque in vulnere ponit—While inflicting the wound he dies. The vast concourse of people that were upon the roof looking down through it to see the sport, we may suppose, contributed to the fall of it. A weight so much greater than ever it was designed to carry might perhaps have sunk of itself, at least it made the fall more fatal to those within: and indeed few of either could escape being either stifled or crushed to death. This was done, not by any natural strength of Samson, but by the almighty power of God, and is not only marvellous, but miraculous, in our eyes. Now in this, [1.] The Philistines were greatly mortified. All their lords and great men were killed, and abundance of their people, and this in the midst of their triumph; the temple of Dagon (as many think the house was) was pulled down, and Dagon buried in it. This would give a great check to the insolence of the survivors, and, if Israel had but had so much sense and spirit left them as to improve the advantages of this juncture, they might now have thrown off the Philistines' yoke. *[2.] Samson may very well be justified, and brought in not guilty of any sinful murder either of himself or the Philistines. He was a public person, a declared enemy to the Philistines, against whom he might therefore take all advantages. They were now in the most barbarous manner making war upon him; all present were aiding and abetting, and justly die with him. Nor was he felo de se, or a self-murderer, in it; for it was not his own life that he aimed at, though he had too much reason to be weary of it, but the lives of Israel's enemies, for the reaching of which he bravely resigned his own, not counting it dear to him, so that he might finish his course with honour.* [3.] God was very much glorified in pardoning Samson's great transgressions, of which this was an evidence. It has been said that the prince's giving a commission to one convicted amounts to a pardon. Yet, though he was a God that forgave him, he took vengeance of his inventions (Ps. xcix. 8), and, by suffering his champion to die in fetters, warned all to take heed of those lusts which war against the soul. However, we have good reason to hope that though Samson died with the Philistines he had not his everlasting portion with them. The Lord knows those that are his. [4.] Christ was plainly typified. He pulled down the devil's kingdom, as Samson did Dagon's temple; and, when he died, he obtained the most glorious victory over the powers of darkness. Then when his arms were stretched out upon the cross, as Samson's to the two pillars, he gave a fatal shake to the gates of hell, and, through death, destroyed him that had the power of death, that is, the devil (Heb. ii. 14, 15), and herein exceeded Samson, that he not only died with the Philistines, but rose again to triumph over them.



Matthew Poole:



> Judg 16:30. Let me die with the Philistines, i.e. I am contented to die, so I can but therewith contribute any thing to the vindication of God's glory, here trampled upon, and to the deliverance of God's people. This is no example nor encouragement to those that wickedly murder themselves; for Samson did not desire nor procure his own death voluntarily, but only by mere force and necessity, because he did desire, and by his office was obliged to seek, the destruction of these enemies and blasphemers of God, and oppressors of his people; which in these circumstances he could not effect without his own death: and his case was not much unlike theirs, that in the heat of battle run upon the very mouth of the cannon, or other evident and certain danger of death, to execute a design upon the enemy; or theirs, who go in a fire-ship to destroy the enemy's best ships, though they are sure to perish in the enterprise. Moreover, Samson did this by Divine instinct and approbation, as God's answer to his prayer manifests, and that he might be a type of Christ, who by voluntarily undergoing death destroyed the enemies of God, and of his people.



Fisher's Catechism:



> Q. 69.3. What are the general sins here forbidden?
> 
> A. [The taking away of our own life, or the life of our neighbour unjustly,] or whatever has a tendency to either of the two.
> 
> ...


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## caddy (Nov 17, 2006)

Please know that I am definately praying not only for you but the family of your friend. I found some information that I think helps all of us address dealing with these issues. On what _*We Can Do* & *What NOT to DO *_When these difficult times come. 

*What We Can Do*
So what can we do?
The funeral service is the place where we can define the boundaries of grief. We acknowledge the loss of the deceased, we recognize the feelings we experience as a result of the loss, and we offer hope that this most terrible time will pass and we will be able to affirm life as good once again. With that in mind, there are several things we can do.
_Tailor the service to the family at hand._ The message that worked for the loved ones of the “church grandpa” will be ineffective for the family of the child who succumbed to leukemia. When preparing the service, I try to keep the family and circumstances in mind. If possible, I get to know something about the deceased and his or her family prior to the service. How the person died will, more than anything, determine the cut of the funeral service as I tailor it to the needs of those attending.
_Mention the cause of death._ Earlier I wrote of the services I did for the woman who died in the car accident and her husband who committed suicide as a result. As I began the second service, I said something like this:
“Ten days ago, we gathered here to receive God’s strength and comfort as we acknowledged the loss of Betty Wilson. Her death in an accident left us shocked and hurting. No one felt the pain and shock more than her devoted husband, Hank, and so, tragically, three days ago, Hank ended his own life near his home.”
With that opening statement, I immediately established the unusual circumstances that brought us together. It frustrates a family when a pastor talks all around the cause of death without addressing it directly. In some cases, the circumstances will be obvious, as in the death of a child. In other cases, however, part of our effectiveness lies in enabling the survivors to admit “John was killed in a car wreck” or “John was murdered,” or even “John killed himself.” Mentioning the cause of death gives everyone present the chance to start recovering from grief from a more-or-less common starting point.
Of course, I need to exercise sensitivity and care, and discuss plans with the family ahead of time. In the case of the man who committed suicide, I checked with immediate family members before saying anything publicly. Since the circumstances of his death were common knowledge anyway, they felt it would be most appropriate to acknowledge the suicide. Given strong emotional attachments to concepts like suicide and aids , it is essential we discover the most tactful yet honest way to present the cause of death. In the case of the aids victim, I obtained the consent of the family before reading as a part of the obituary that he had died of Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (that was honest, yet not so scary sounding as aids ).
_Acknowledge this is an abnormal time._ This helps the survivors place their unpleasant feelings into perspective. Often, a grieving person will feel as if he or she is losing touch with reality. Time and again I’ve had surviving spouses tell me, “I feel like I’m losing my mind. I won’t be able to function normally ever again. I can’t think straight and I can’t remember a single thing.”
Our honest acknowledgment can help the bereaved see this is something we do not normally encounter; it is a time for unusual feelings and reactions. There is good reason to feel spiritually and emotionally out of kilter when one we’ve known and loved dies suddenly and tragically.
This acknowledgment offers, too, the hope that feelings will return to normal once the worst of the grief is overcome. That in itself can be a great comfort to people who are thrown into a spiritual vertigo by a tragic death.
_Allow for honest ventilation of feelings._ The death of my father in 1981 was a pivotal experience in both my life and ministry. Dad died at the age of fifty-five from lung cancer. At my own request, I co-officiated at the burial service. When I made that arrangement, I had no idea how difficult the service would be. I stood at the grave facing my family and friends and invited them to share my feelings, feelings like the writer of Lamentations when he wrote:
I am the man who has seen affliction under the rod of his wrath; he has driven and brought me into darkness without any light; surely against me he turns his hand again and again the whole day long. He has made my flesh and my skin waste away, and broken my bones; he has besieged and enveloped me with bitterness and tribulation; he has made me dwell in darkness like the dead of long ago. He has walled me about so that I cannot escape; he has put heavy chains on me; though I call and cry for help, he shuts out my prayer; he has blocked my ways with hewn stones … my soul is bereft of peace, I have forgotten what happiness is.…” ( Lam. 3:1–9 , 17–18 )
In the case of a murder, suicide, child death, or other difficult situation, certainly there should be anger. Often guilt or other feelings will manifest themselves. By reminding people these are a sign neither of mental instability nor a lack of faith, we can provide a place from which the bereaved can begin working back to where things are normal and life is good.
_Emphasize God’s presence._ Even though grieving people may be angry at God to the point of rage, God’s love is still important to them. The effective pastor is the one who can help the bereaved through Scripture, prayer, and message to know that God is present, not as the oppressor but as the comforter on the side of the oppressed. While we may not know why a fatal accident happened, or why a child contracted leukemia or a woman killed herself, we do know that God is present and on our side.
In addition to lifting up God’s presence through the promises of Scripture, we may also point to God’s presence as we find it in caring family members and friends. I have seen friends surround widows and others at the cemetery and infuse those hurting people with their strength through touches, hugs, firm clasps of the hand, and other expressions of caring. This is the most effective thing I’ve found to pass along to family members and friends of hard cases.
As pastors, we are physicians of the spirit. We bring talents, training, and special gifts to the hard grief cases just as doctors take their talents and skills into difficult medical cases. An openness to the guidance of the Holy Spirit, the sensitive use of the pastoral skills we possess, and a willingness to share the grief journey of those we serve can place us in partnership with God — who truly brings forth miracles in the hard cases.



*What to Avoid*
In difficult funerals, what is most effective becomes clear when we consider what should be avoided.
_Don’t be the “answer man.”_ A mystique surrounds our work, much as in the field of medicine. We spend years of preparation and more years of practice to answer life’s most basic and imponderable questions.
It feels good to have people seek us out for answers. When we are confronted with a hard case, however, there are no easy answers. Nothing we can say or do will bring back a dead son or reverse a car accident. No answer we give will make a suicide easy to think about.
Recently I read a sermon a fellow minister had delivered at the funeral of an aids victim. The thrust of the message was that this untimely and tragic death was perfectly understandable — it was God’s punishment for the victim’s lifestyle. I wondered: _Was this “answer” to the question of why this young man had to die really helpful to the family and friends left behind?_
We must rid ourselves of the notion we can fix painful situaations by providing answers to questions that are unanswerable.
_Don’t treat this as “just part of my job.”_ Some time ago I sat with the family of a dying woman. Prior to our hurried summons to the hospital, she had been proceeding along a normal postoperative course of recovery. Her vital signs looked fine. Then a weak spot in her aorta ruptured. There was nothing anyone could do. As her blood pressure dropped dramatically and her pulse faded, her family and I sat silently together in the waiting room, bound to one another by our feelings of shock and helplessness.
With us sat another minister, pastor of the church where one of the woman’s daughters attended. I had called him at the daughter’s request so he could lend emotional and spiritual support to her. What he did instead was fidget in his chair and glance frequently at his wrist watch. When the woman finally died and the daughter, disgusted despite her grief, told the minister he could leave, the clergyman compounded his mistake by offering to stay longer. The daughter icily informed him that wouldn’t be necessary. It was a long time before that woman went back to church.
I don’t believe the minister acted as he did because he didn’t care. Rather, I believe he behaved that way because he was feeling as uncomfortable as the rest of us. It would have been far better to acknowledge his discomfort at the outset and let the rest of us support him while he supported us at the same time. He certainly should have refrained from the false offer of further assistance, which came off sounding forced.
_At the funeral, don’t give a canned presentation._ Recently I took an informal survey of the funeral directors in my area to check their perceptions of clergy effectiveness in problem funeral situations. Their responses were discouraging, to say the least.
One funeral director told me, “It seems as if most of the ministers come in with a service that’s cut-and-dried no matter what the cause of death. For every service they use the same Bible passages, the same prayers, and the same messages. It’s almost as if they don’t care.” Virtually all the other funeral directors echoed the sentiment.
This disturbs me. If the funeral directors are sensing a lack of caring on the part of the clergy, what must the families be feeling? Do they think we are there just to perform a perfunctory service, an empty ritual? Since feelings are magnified by grief’s pain, I wonder if the people who need us most, those in the hard cases, feel angrier, guiltier, and lonelier for our having been a part of the process.
I sat through the funeral of a suicide victim in which the minister made no mention of the suicide and said the name of the deceased only once. The rest of the service was read out of a book. I felt as if I had been led to the table but denied permission to eat. It’s true that different medicines work for different ailments, and no one drug can cure every sickness. It is no less true that a canned funeral service that takes no consideration of the unique circumstances of the death will seldom be helpful to people hurting in a hard case.
I believe we resort to canned services because of our discomfort; the prepared, impersonal service appears an easy way out of the situation. We become far more effective in handling the hard cases when we allow ourselves to grieve along with the bereaved. The best thing we can do as we prepare for each difficult funeral service is to ask ourselves what it is that gives us the most courage and strength, given the way we feel about the situation. It is as true in ministry as in anything else: we work best with what we know and have ourselves experienced.
[1] 


[1]Peterson, E. H., & Miller, C. 1987. _Vol. 10_: _Weddings, funerals, & special events_. "A Leadership/Word book.". Leadership library . CTI; Word Books; Distributed by Word Books: Carol Stream, Ill.; Waco, Tex.


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## ChristopherPaul (Nov 17, 2006)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> I don't think it is accurate to say that Sampson committed suicide. Here are some helpful comments on the end of Sampson's life:
> 
> Matthew Henry:
> 
> ...




Very helpful Andrew, thank you.

According to these teachers then, suicide involves the intent of one's own death whereas Samson intended the death of God's enemies.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 17, 2006)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Very helpful Andrew, thank you.
> 
> According to these teachers then, suicide involves the intent of one's own death whereas Samson intended the death of God's enemies.



 Exactly. Although the analogy probably breaks down somewhere, I would compare Samson's death to the example of a soldier who charges against the enemy in a battlefield against overwhelming forces knowing that it will mean his life but willingly sacrificing it for his cause. Likewise, a soldier who throws himself on a grenade knowing that it will kill him but save others nearby is not committing suicide but laying down his life valiantly for others. Samson's situation is slightly different but I think the point of the commentators I cited is that Samson laying down his own life willingly in a valiant effort to destroy the enemies of God who had captured him in divine judgment with divinely-given strength is not self-murder any more than the soldier who sacrifices himself for his cause on the battlefield. His death is secondary to the purpose of his actions and not the primary goal. In fact, they go so far as to make the point that Samson was a type of Christ who laid down his life to destroy our greatest enemies -- sin and death -- which death was not a suicide or self-murder but the noblest sacrifice of all. In other words, not all laying down of one's life is suicide.


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## Scott Shahan (Nov 17, 2006)

If someone is being tempted to kill themselves isn't it Satan that is tempting them to do it? And if the answer is "yes" it is Satan, then isn't the Lord in control of Satan? So the Lord is allowing and permitting Satan to tempt these people like Cory to kill himself. The Lord is not responsible for the sin, He does use Satan to tempt people to kill themselves, is that right?? Or could one say that it was decreed by God that Cory killed himself. Was it the Soverign Will of God that Cory killed himself?


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## KenPierce (Nov 17, 2006)

First, Christians can commit any sin but the unpardonable one.

Second, there are physiological illnesses of the brain (of which Samuel Miller could not have been aware) that completely distort the perception of reality for their victims, causing them to act or think irrationally. I have ministered to some of these unfortunate souls: who think that every plane passing over their house is spying on them, who go running inside at a satellite passing in the night sky, who see and hear Jesus sitting on the end of the bed, casting lots for their souls. A person who takes his life in such instances may perceive himself to be acting rationally.

Third, perhaps the most famous suicidal Christian was William Cowper. Any doubts about his salvation? The famous story is that he was going to throw himself in the Thames, but it was too foggy, and he could not find the river. Thereafter he wrote, "Sometimes a light surprises the Christian while he sings."

Brothers, I hate to say this, but I have seen a lot of posturing and surmising, but precious little Biblical and theological argumentation in the posts above. For one thing, Jesus himself tells us there is but one unforgivable sin: blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. All other sorts of offenses, repented of an non, are forgiven of Christians, and no Christian can commit the unforgivable sin. 

You and I commit sins every day of which we are not even aware, and thus cannot repent, though our spirit ought always to be one of general repentance for all sin.

Nobody doubts that suicide is a serious sin --as is adultery (DAvid), murder (David), swindling (Jacob), doubting God (Sarah, Thomas), lying (Rachel), prostituting one's wife (Abraham, Isaac) or denying the Lord before men (Peter). 

I doubt anybody on this list would ever counsel suicide, no matter how dire someone's lot.

But, I am very afraid that the posts above bely a failure to understand the wideness of God's mercy. Great men of God have been known to wallow in the depths of despair --Spurgeon and Kuyper being two prominent examples. Yet, GOd's grace and mercy are larger than even the deep cesspool of despond that would lead someone to this most offensive affront to God's gift of life.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 17, 2006)

For the record, Samuel Miller said,



> But perhaps it will be asked, "Can we entertain no hope of the final salvation of one who destroys his own life?" *This is a question which it ill becomes a blind and erring mortal to decide. It is possible that a child of God may be so far under the power of mental derangement, as to rush unbidden into the presence of his Father. I believe that instances of this kind have sometimes occurred; and, if so, concerning the salvation of such persons no doubt can be entertained.* But it may be questioned, on very solid ground, whether a real Christian, in the exercise of his reason, ever became his own executioner.



William Cowper was not successful in committing suicide. He had periods of insanity and depression, but he did not leave this world due to suicide but rather illness. Whether he is in heaven now or not, is not for any of us to presume. 

I have not discussed my thoughts about any person outside of Scripture. The authorities I have cited have not said that no one who commits suicide is saved. On the contrary, Miller explicitly allows that this has occured. But we have no example in Scripture upon which to make a larger general favorable presumption about the state of one's soul who has committed self-murder. 

Each of us does in fact violate God's law every day, including the sixth commandment, and none of us repents fully as we ought. The professing Christian who dies peacefully in his bed no doubt has sins in his life of which he was not fully aware nor fully repentant of. Truly, it is wonder that any of us are saved -- God be praised for his wide and merciful grace. 

Making assumptions -- either way -- about the state of one who has committed suicide is, in my opinion, unwise. That is why I have confined my remarks to the examples that we have in Scripture, which show no godly person to have committed suicide. The way one dies does say _something_ about how one lived, but not enough for us to establish a rule pertaining to the eternal state of anyone's soul. To extrapolate beyond that and presume that no suicide can be in heaven would be foolish and to presume that any professing Christian who commits suicide is in heaven would also be foolish. No commentator that I have cited has erred in either direction, I believe. Miller specifically says that we "blind and erring mortals" should not attempt to "decide" such questions. He shows that the tenor of Scripture indicates that "no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him" and that would lead us to believe not that no one can be saved who violates the sixth commandment - but that the presumption of eternal life to all those professing Christians who leave this world by the crime of self-murder is perhaps unwarranted and the burden of proof would be on them to show otherwise. He understood the grace of God for sinners. But he also understood that there is no example in all of Scripture that conclusively shows a saved person who committed suicide. It is presumptuous to go beyond Scripture and make assumptions that cannot be supported by Scriptural examples. The Scriptural examples that we have do not favor such a general assumption about professing believers who take their own life, but neither do they shut the door to the possibility either. 

We should be circumspect and not presumptuous about the eternal life of anyone in history. It is simply not our place to say unless we are speaking of someone in Scripture and God has given us such indication, as with Samson, or we are relying upon a specific promise of God. There is no specific promise that all those who profess Christ and take their own lives will enter heaven, that I know of. In the absence of such a specific promise, let us rather leave off vain speculations and instead grieve with those who grieve and mourn with those who mourn (Matt. 5.4; Rom. 12.15).


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## Scott Shahan (Nov 17, 2006)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> For the record, Samuel Miller said,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




 It is not my place to judge someone who has committed the sin of suicide. God alone knows who are his.


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## staythecourse (Nov 17, 2006)

I have to agree about suicide being forgivable. Self-destruction is shameful and terrible and the ripple effect lasts a long time in loved ones lives. Lets add that if most of us needed to perform the funeral service, that particular persons work of redeemig grace by God would be thrown into question because of their hopelessness, despair, and act of murder among other things. We should hope that all believers have that glow and joy for the future they have and eternal/current relationship they have with God in Christ. That is certainly my goal as I see Paul's life - my mortal model in many ways.

Regarding Samson, even in his death it was all about him: "Avenge my eyes!" One ofthe loneliest and angriest people I see in the OT - in constant rebellion with suicide being his coup d'é‧tat for Israel. He is by no means to be a model for us except of God's ability to do miraculous things even in a selfish man.


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