# "Jesus loves you" is an example of _______.



## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

Of what? 

I was talking to my brother about a third party who lives outside of the Word of God. This was covered over by him with "but Jesus loves her just as she is". What I am wanting to know, is what is this phrase an example of?

For example: "I made the decision to ask Jesus into my heart, He could only take it so far without my say so" is an example of Arminianism.

"Jesus loves you" is an example of _______. I want a label to attach to it but I don't know what it is.

And yes, if there was a PuritanBoard Theological Sandbox, I would belong there, with my plastic pail and little pink shovel. :shame:


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## raderag (Aug 13, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> Of what?
> 
> I was talking to my brother about a third party who lives outside of the Word of God. This was covered over by him with "but Jesus loves her just as she is". What I am wanting to know, is what is this phrase an example of?
> 
> ...



This isn't a label perse, but it is definitely theological redux. Its also a red herring, and if she isn't being disciplined by the Lord, she might want to ask herself if she is really in the faith. Of course, I'm not sure what being outside the Word of God is in this case.


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## Reformed Baptist (Aug 13, 2007)

Just tell people, "Jesus loves you, and has a wonderful plan for His glory."


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## A5pointer (Aug 13, 2007)

"Jesus loves you" is an example of _______. 

speculation


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

She is living an "alternative" lifestyle. I was told that I could learn a lot from this individual.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

> "Jesus loves you, and has a wonderful plan for His glory."



Sure, but I wanted some sort of term to describe the _phrase itself_ when used as a cover for sin, that's what I'm after but I simply don't have the knowledge...


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## raderag (Aug 13, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> She is living an "alternative" lifestyle. I was told that I could learn a lot from this individual.



True enough; vessels of wrath have much to teach believers. 



> Romans 1: 24Therefore God gave them up in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, to the dishonoring of their bodies among themselves, 25because they exchanged the truth about God for a lie and worshiped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed forever! Amen.



Obviously, she is in great peril.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

> True enough; vessels of wrath have much to teach believers.



Ain't that the truth (but I'm sure that wasn't what he meant to convey! )

I've heard a lesbian priestette (Episcopalian, I believe) claim that the relationship that she was in was the most natural thing in the world to her - so Romans 1 didn't point a finger at her.


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## CDM (Aug 13, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> > "Jesus loves you, and has a wonderful plan for His glory."
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, but I wanted some sort of term to describe such a phrase when used as a cover for sin, that's what I'm after but I simply don't have the knowledge...





kvanlaan said:


> Of what?
> 
> I was talking to my brother about a third party who lives outside of the Word of God. This was covered over by him with "but Jesus loves her just as she is". What I am wanting to know, is what is this phrase an example of?
> 
> ...



"Jesus loves you" is an example of _a horrible lie_. If we're referring to the unconverted. 

Use the label of "false teaching". 

You say the person is living an "alternative [to truth] lifestyle? Then Psalm 5 will shed some light on it:



> 4*For thou art not a God that hath pleasure in wickedness: neither shall evil dwell with thee. *
> 
> 5The foolish shall not stand in thy sight: *thou hatest all workers of iniquity*.
> 
> 6Thou shalt destroy them that speak leasing: the LORD will abhor the bloody and deceitful man.




Sodomites are wicked: they will not dwell with God no matter what superstitious spell they chanted. Also, God hates _all_ workers of iniquity... like sodomites and murdererers, and thieves, etc.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

> "Jesus loves you" is an example of a _horrible lie_. If we're referring to the unconverted.



That's sort of the tack I took in the discussion. 

Actually, this is making me feel a bit better about the whole thing. I was sure that the first answering post would be something to the effect that it was "(insert meaningful theological term here)" along with some serious questions as to how I had attained board membership.


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## Herald (Aug 13, 2007)

Kevin - in Hollywood this past week we saw a sign outside of the Hollywood Methodist Church that read, "Remember, you are a child of God." I don't feel anger anymore when I read tripe like that. I sigh and realize it is very much the spirit of this age (Eph 2:2). Also, I would resist any attempt to answer the question in the OP. The answer to that question is provided to Christ's church and those whom the Father will draw to Himself. We can display the love the Father has given us by proclaiming the gospel to the lost.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 13, 2007)

How about...

Jesus love you is false hope. For that is exactly what this statement does when used in the context that you describe. It gives folks that "warm fuzzy" feeling and falsely assures them that they are some how okay in the eyes of god (and I use a little "g" because the god they refer to is not the Triune God of heaven).


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 13, 2007)

In reference to one who is outside the faith (ie., unconverted, living in impenitent, open sin, etc.), "Jesus loves you" is an example of wishful thinking.

Psalm 7.11:



> 11 God judgeth the righteous, and God is angry with the wicked every day.


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## VictorBravo (Aug 13, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> Of what?
> 
> "Jesus loves you" is an example of _______. I want a label to attach to it but I don't know what it is.



Assuming facts not in evidence.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

> We can display the love the Father has given us by proclaiming the gospel to the lost.



Bill, that's the next place I went after the initial "No, no, it's not like that." A person standing in open rebellion to God's Word needs a call to repentance and will find that calling in the gospel, not in me straining at gnats. I know that Paul tended not to pick at details but simply to reiterate the gospel in cases like this, but I was dealing with an opposing viewpoint who sees much of the Bible as poetry and not the literal words of God, so I thought that the first step was to make sure that his initial viewpoint was countered. May not be the wisest of routes to take, but that's what I did...



> Jesus loves you is false hope. For that is exactly what this statement does when used in the context that you describe. It gives folks that "warm fuzzy" feeling and falsely assures them that they are some how okay in the eyes of god (and I use a little "g" because the god they refer to is not the Triune God of heaven).



Evangellyfish. He attends a missional group that has a sort of rock-star pastor from what I can gather. It was a difficult discussion, he's my only sibling, and I love him dearly.


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## nlknorr (Aug 13, 2007)

I don't post here, at all really, but read a lot. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to quote Bunyan. The term I think that applies is _presumption_.



> Sixth, Since Jesus Christ would have mercy offered, in the first place, to the biggest sinners, let souls see that they lay right hold thereof, lest they, notwithstanding, indeed, come short thereof. Faith only knows how to deal with mercy; wherefore, put not in the place thereof presumption. I have observed, that, as there are herbs and flowers in our gardens, so there are their counterfeits in the field; only they are distinguished from the other by the name of wild ones. Why, there is faith, and wild faith; and wild faith is this presumption. I call it wild faith, because God never placed it in his garden—his church; 'tis only to be found in the field—the world. I also call it wild faith, because it only grows up and is nourished where other wild notions abound. Wherefore, take heed of this, and all may be well; for this presumptuousness is a very heinous thing in the eyes of God. 'The soul,' saith he, 'that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth the Lord; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people' (Num 15:30).
> 
> The thoughts of this made David tremble, and pray that God would hold him back from presumptuous sins, and not suffer them to have dominion over him (Psa 19:13). Now, this presumption, then, puts itself in the place of faith, when it tampereth with the promise for life, while the soul is a stranger to repentance. Wherefore, you have in the text, to prevent doing thus, both repentance and remission of sins to be offered to Jerusalem; not remission without repentance, for all that repent not shall perish, let them presume on grace and the promise while they will (Luke 13:1-3).
> 
> ...


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## larryjf (Aug 13, 2007)

When folks define their "Christianity" based on short statements like that i tend to think of the term...
"catch phrase Christianity" or "catch phrase theology"

It took God 66 books to inform us...i think it's the height of pride to think that we can do it with one or two catch phrases.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 13, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> It was a difficult discussion, he's my only sibling, and I love him dearly.



I will be praying for you, brother!



> If I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am become sounding brass, or a clanging cymbal. And if I have the gift of prophecy, and know all mysteries and all knowledge; and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
> 
> --I Corinthians 13;1-2


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

Larry, I couldn't agree more. I like the comment I hear most often on this: When we look at Reformed theologians who try to summarize the message of the Bible, they usually ended up writing a book that was a good deal longer than whatever they were trying to summarize. But these days, "Jesus loves you" will suffice. 

That comment wasn't _his_ summary of the gospel but, I think, an ad hoc defense for those acquaintances of his living in a pattern of sin. Still, I just don't follow it. 

(And thank you James, I unashamedly covet those prayers!)


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## reformedman (Aug 13, 2007)

kvanlaan said:


> "Jesus loves you" is an example of _______.



"easy believism"

Easy believism, as a whole, is developed by a list of abiblical beliefs. One of these is that Christ loves the world-all people.

So just as "Christ died for all people" would be an example of Arminianism, Arminianism being composed of certain abiblical points; Jesus loves you is an example of "Easy-Believism".


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## caddy (Aug 13, 2007)

Agreed. It is an example of a Horrible Lie.

*Romans 3:12 *12 All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; *no one does good, not even one." *

I was reminded of this again by reading the Bonhoeffer quote in my signature. Just saying Jesus loves you is an example of religion and culture and all the "frilly" easy sayings people lend to it, _but the belief, simple and comprehensive, which is offered in the Bible, is _*NOT *available _to everyone: not at anytime nor in any respect can any who will, reach out and take it--_not by force, not by will and certainly not by saying something so easy: "Jesus loves me just as I am." If He loved me just as I am, what was the need of the cross?



We are all living alternative lifestyles, so to speak, until God saves us from them. Our alternative to the one true God, is our own pride and self worship--and everything that entails.



mangum said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> > > "Jesus loves you, and has a wonderful plan for His glory."
> ...


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## Contra_Mundum (Aug 13, 2007)

A "presumption" or an "assumption".

This "LarkNews" t-shirt I've seen is pretty blasphemous, but it parodies this sentimental garbage:


> *"Jesus LOVES YOU!
> (then again, he loves everybody)"*


It captures the meaninglessness of that phrase in the contextless fashion it is used everywhere.

Does Jesus "inflict vengeance in flaming fire" on his loved ones (2 Thess. 1:7-8)? I don't think so. But he will bring it, so he must not love everybody the same.


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## elnwood (Aug 13, 2007)

"Jesus Loves You" is an example of the need for people to read D. A. Carson's "The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God."


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## kvanlaan (Aug 13, 2007)

> Does Jesus "inflict vengeance in flaming fire" on his loved ones (2 Thess. 1:7-8)? I don't think so. But he will bring it, so he must not love everybody the same.



That came up later in the discussion, the concept of Christ as a judge and the issue of damnation. I think the statistic is that of ~1900 verses attributed to Christ, 13% (maybe 11%, can't recall) deal with judgment, the largest single category of the lot. But yes, to speak of judgment for men at all, he must not love everyone all the same.


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## KMK (Aug 13, 2007)

This is an interesting thread. I am not a rhetoricist or a logician so I do not know the proper terms but another thing about the phrase "God loves you" is that it leaves the definition of love in the hands of the individual. The phrase means whatever you think 'love' means. It's kind of like saying "You are good looking". OK. Compared to what? What does 'good' mean? It is about as ambiguous as 'love'.

Jesus Christ taught that God sends the rain on the just and the unjust alike. If that is your definition of 'love' then yes, God does love everyone. I think the universal love of God idea has a great deal to do with one's understanding of the atonement. If Christ died for everyone who has ever walked the earth throughout time, then it is only natural to believe that God loves everyone.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 13, 2007)

The odd thing about that though Ken, is that people who believe that, yet don't "accept" Christ will often argue that He must not love them very much or he would FORCE them to accept Him! (ugh!)


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## KMK (Aug 13, 2007)

houseparent said:


> The odd thing about that though Ken, is that people who believe that, yet don't "accept" Christ will often argue that He must not love them very much or he would FORCE them to accept Him! (ugh!)



 Never heard that one before. You talk about irony.


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## reformedman (Aug 13, 2007)

Jesus loves me this I know
for the bible tells me so
little ones to him belong
I am weak but He is strong

Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
The bible tells me so.

Would you teach your children this? My personal opinion is that you are feeding the problem by teaching the next generation what we are all agreeing is the problem in this thread. Easy believism is taught, it is not born. People are born in rebellion against God, but when they are taught that God loves all people, they like this, they then become believers with this as a foundation and all other doctrines have to pass qualifications based on 'God loving everyone' being a cornerstone of doctrine. Easy believism causes so many other incorrect doctrines. It is created because of this mentality.

On the flip side, if easy believism were not taught we would have people that are just flat out rebellious against God or in other religions. Roman catholics don't have to deal with being either because that is a born religion. Agnosticism is a rebellion against the belief of God's identity. etc..
All the above is an opinion, please correct me if I am wrong.


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## BobVigneault (Aug 13, 2007)

reformedman said:


> Jesus loves me this I know
> for the bible tells me so



I would and do definitely teach this to our covenant children and to believers everywhere. In fact this is one of the foundational presuppositions that must be the basis of our walk and epistemology.


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## Contra_Mundum (Aug 13, 2007)

Frank,
I understand the concern.

But like so many things, there is a time and place for it, and other times and places where it is inappropriate. But the song is a catechetical tool. The point of catechism is to train up into the faith, to see the fruit of conversion in young lives.

You might as well say that the kidos shouldn't be singing anything in church. No participation unless you've professed faith. What I'm saying is: it wouldn't simply be JLM that created a problem. For example:

Psalm 18--line: "I will love thee O Lord, my strength." Can't sing that.
Psalm 94--line: "Your steadfast love, O Lord, held me up." Nope, definitely not that.
Hymn _I sought the Lord, and afterward I knew_--line: "Always thou lovedst me." Not a chance.

You can probably see the problem that I see with applying that principle across the board. Anyway, I hope you don't advocate getting deeply consistent in this area.

Blessings,


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## A5pointer (Aug 13, 2007)

Jesus loves me this I know
for the bible tells me so
little ones to him belong
I am weak but He is strong

Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
Yes, Jesus loves me
The bible tells me so.

This song has more verses, very appropriate if I remember correctly, Maybe someone has them handy.


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## A5pointer (Aug 13, 2007)

Jesus loves me! He who died,
Heaven's gate to open wide;
He will wash away my sin,
Let His little child come in.
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
Yes, Jesus loves me!
The Bible tells me so.


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## MW (Aug 13, 2007)

nlknorr said:


> I don't post here, at all really, but read a lot. I couldn't pass up the opportunity to quote Bunyan. The term I think that applies is _presumption_.


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