# Resisting the Spirit, Forfeiting grace, etc.



## heartoflesh (Dec 13, 2005)

Hank Hannegraaf was up to his usually antics last night, referring to the Doctrines of Grace as "playing with a stacked deck", "fatalistic determinism", "God doesn't deal with robots", etc. Then he brought up several verses to emphasize his libertarian freedom position:

Jonah 2:8 
"Those who cling to worthless idols *forfeit the grace that could be theirs*"

Luke 7:30
"But the Pharisees and experts in the law *rejected God's purpose for themselves*"

Acts 7:51
You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: *You always resist the Holy Spirit!*


I'm sure this is just old hat to most of you, but how do you handle these verses?


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## Devin (Dec 13, 2005)

Would you say that any of these verses deal specifically with salvation? Because it is _not_ the Calvinist position that man can never ever resist the Holy Spirit. The Calvinist position is that man cannot resist regeneration just like Lazarus couldn't resist being raised from the dead.


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## Me Died Blue (Dec 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Rick Larson_
> Jonah 2:8
> "Those who cling to worthless idols *forfeit the grace that could be theirs*"



This relates to the free offer of the Gospel. As expressed in verses like John 3:16 and Acts 2:21, everyone who puts repentant faith in Christ will possess the grace of the covenant purchased by Christ. If Pharoah would have repented and exercised faith, he could have (and would have) had that grace. But he did not, just like all reprobate persons, and thus all of them without exception inevitably forfeit that grace that they could attain would they exercise faith.



> _Originally posted by Rick Larson_
> Luke 7:30
> "But the Pharisees and experts in the law *rejected God's purpose for themselves*"



This is likewise no problem in the Reformed worldview, for as the Shorter Catechism puts it, "Man's chief end is to glorify god, and to enjoy him forever." The reprobate fulfill their ultimate purpose _as individuals_ as expressed in the first clause (glorifying God), but of course they reject their ultimate original purpose _as humans_, which is expressed in the second clause (enjoying Him forever).



> _Originally posted by Rick Larson_
> Acts 7:51
> You stiff-necked people, with uncircumcised hearts and ears! You are just like your fathers: *You always resist the Holy Spirit!*



Since the Spirit is omnipresent, and general revelation is abundant to everyone through the Spirit's common grace both in nature and in the law on men's hearts, unbelievers in fact _must_ be resisting the Spirit in that respect, otherwise everyone would be converted by general revelation. But the reason no one is converted by general revelation is that "by their unrighteousness" they actively "_suppress the truth_" (Rom. 1:18).


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## Henry from Canada (Dec 13, 2005)

Ah, the arguments against Calvinism:

1) "My God would never leave any man so totally helpless that he could not be able to choose God. That would not be nice."

2) "The Calvinists have a harsh and cruel God."

3) "What, are some people just cannon fodder?"

4) "What! That means salvation is based on chance."

5) "God does not deal with robots."

6) "The deck has been stacked."

I have thought long and hard as to how to concisely and simply answer this type of questioning. The answers have to be short and sweet because very few people are willing to spend hours, months and years studying God. 

This is how I approach these questions. Please feel free to (gently) correct these answers.

Short and Sweet Answer to Point 1)

Human beings are totally depraved. Romans 3 and Gen. 6 give an extremely detailed description of just how depraved and helpless we are. In fact, Romans 3 emphasizes this point 18 times.

Because of this depravity, God has to completely regenerate us in order to save the elect and keep everyone from killing each other.

Anyone who claims that he can save himself is arguing against Romans 3, Gen. 6, and a number of other Bible passages.

Also, anyone that argues against Romans 3 is implying that he is better that other people. It is not good to argue against Romans 3 because it forces you to say you are better then other sinners. This type of arrogant stance leaves you open to people who can easily find fault. 


Answer to Point 2) and Point 3) 

I think everyone, including non-Calvinists, can agree to one thing: Billions of people are going to hell (choose the wide path). 

Any God that would create an universe in which billions of humans are so depraved that they can not choose life, is a FEARSOME God. 

Yes, God can be very harsh. He sends floods, conquering armies, and even sent an evil spirit after Saul. 


Point 4) 

I can't quote chapter and verse, but I believe the Bible says that God has an eternal purpose for everything. God does not roll the dice. He has a plan. This is not a "chance" universe.


Point 5)

Right, God does not deal with robots. Robots are amoral; we are totally immoral. God reforms some totally depraved sinners. 


Point 6)

In one sense, the deck has to be stacked because left to our own devices, we could easily destroy ourselves.

For example, the 20th century has brought amazing advances in financial prosperity, food production, medicine, automation, etc. Left to our own devices, millions of people can not handle these blessings.

The blessing of financial prosperity has lead many to the curse of drug addiction, obesity, hedonism, etc. We are so depraved that BLESSINGS can destroy us. 


I know that some of you will find these answers too pithy and simplistic, however, I have found that most people do not want to hear long, detailed dissertations.


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## Henry from Canada (Dec 13, 2005)

Sorry, I did not properly address your question.


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## R. Scott Clark (Dec 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Rick Larson_
> Hank Hannegraaf ...brought up several verses to emphasize his libertarian freedom position...



Hank and others do not understand the Reformed distinction between being in the covenant of grace only _externally_ by circumcision or baptism and being in the covenant of grace both externally *and * _internally_. 

Those who are are elect, who either will come to faith or have come to faith have or will have the _ substance_ (that which makes it what it is, namely justification _sola gratia, sola fide_ and sanctification as a necessary consequence of justification) of the covenant of grace. 

The others have only the adminstration (i.e., the accidents, things that are associated with the covenant of grace but not essential to it, things that can change such as circumcision, --_mutatis mutandis_ -- to baptism; the feasts to the Supper etc. without changing the essence of the covenant of grace) of the covenant of grace. 

Those who have only an external relation to the covenant of grace are "in" it, but not "of" it. Such folk participate in the life of the church, even, according to Hebrews, "tasting of the powers of the age to come," but are not elect and therefore not united to Christ and therefore not regenerate and therefore unbelieving. 

The visible church, the visible administration of the covenant of grace is always mixed. Thus there will always be those who participate in the life of the church who are reprobate. Not all Israel is _is_ Israel. 

rsc


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## mybigGod (Dec 15, 2005)

The only thing i would like to add here is the question- How many of us came to Christ outside of the "reformed faith" camp? So justifications argument is "inspite of us and any thing external "


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