# Hardest part of seminary academically?



## Polanus1561 (Jan 11, 2019)

Not talking about the spiritual / family part which is of course challenging. But academically, what was the toughest part you remember? Which course etc., made you stare blankly at your computer screen? Or perhaps it was languages?


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## Hamalas (Jan 11, 2019)

Virtually everyone I've ever talked with would say the same thing: the languages were the hardest (academic) part. I would concur.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jan 11, 2019)

Memorization (languages), or of any other kind. Memorizing all the Gospels content (i.e. memorizing the substance of all chapters in order), etc.


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## Dachaser (Jan 11, 2019)

John Yap said:


> Not talking about the spiritual / family part which is of course challenging. But academically, what was the toughest part you remember? Which course etc., made you stare blankly at your computer screen? Or perhaps it was languages?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I have asked my Senior pastor that question, and his reply was trying to leatn Hebrew and Greek at same time, as he had 4 years of Hebrew and 5 years in the Greek.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 11, 2019)

I attended about half of an MDiv (MA in Christian Ministries) on my own time and dime from 2009-2016. The hardest part was balancing the expense/time with being a Husband, Father, Elder, and providing for my family while maintaining my motivation to continue to study.
I might be a bad example because most theological subjects were diving deeper into things I had been reading about or interacting with (here and elsewhere) for years before Seminary so most subjects came pretty easily for me.
That said, the five courses I took in Greek were the most challenging because you've got to discipline the time to review vocabulary, forms, etc. It was exceednigly rewaring but it was the most challenging. I've thought about taking some additional courses in Hebrew but my vision has diminished over the last couple of years and I don't know if I would be able to see well enough to do it.


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## py3ak (Jan 11, 2019)

It depends on your background. For one classmate, it was Doctrine of God, with its sometimes counter-intuitive technicalities and philosophical contents. Others groaned under the weight of history. Probably nothing distressed me more than having to make a map.


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## TheInquirer (Jan 11, 2019)

Memorization for tests, Greek in particular. Vocabulary wasn't difficult for me, it was the paradigms.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 11, 2019)

py3ak said:


> Others groaned under the weight of history.



Surely not! 

Can you give a date for such an occurrence? 

Peace,
Alan

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## greenbaggins (Jan 11, 2019)

For me, it was systematic theology. I loved it, make no mistake. But the exams always made my wrist ache because of how much I had to write. The stuff one had to remember was also mind-boggling.


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## JTB.SDG (Jan 11, 2019)

Probably Hebrew exegetical papers.


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## py3ak (Jan 11, 2019)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Surely not!
> 
> Can you give a date for such an occurrence?
> 
> ...



May 18, 2015! I understand things may have been even worse the following year...

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## SolaScriptura (Jan 12, 2019)

For me the hardest part was when it came to course selection. So many great courses... so little time...


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## R. Andrew Compton (Jan 12, 2019)

I remember my prolegomena/intro to apologetics course just about did me in ... but less than a year later, everything started to click and I saw the wealth of what I'd learned, even if at the time I felt like I was being cleaned and filleted!


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 12, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> For me, it was systematic theology. I loved it, make no mistake. But the exams always made my wrist ache because of how much I had to write. The stuff one had to remember was also mind-boggling.



In terms of grasping a concept (vs exams and memory work) - what course was the hardest?


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 12, 2019)

R. Andrew Compton said:


> I remember my prolegomena/intro to apologetics course just about did me in ... but less than a year later, everything started to click and I saw the wealth of what I'd learned, even if at the time I felt like I was being cleaned and filleted!



What would you advice a beginning seminarian regarding the initial hump?

Though prolegomena should be learned first - I do think the historical theological discussion can go over ones head. Reading Bavinck vol.1 was traumatizing for me


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## JimmyH (Jan 12, 2019)

John Yap said:


> What would you advice a beginning seminarian regarding the initial hump?
> 
> Though prolegomena should be learned first - I do think the historical theological discussion can go over ones head. Reading Bavinck vol.1 was traumatizing for me
> 
> ...


This review of Vol 1, by Bayou Huguenot, mentions that it is a difficult read in the last paragraph ;



> Conclusion
> 
> The book isn’t always easy to read. If the reader does not have a background heavy in European Rationalism, many of Bavinck’s sparring partners will be over one’s head. Conversely, if one does have such a background in those disciplines, then there is little point to read Bavinck on them, since he is merely given a cursory reading of them. Nonetheless, this is one of those "great books" in theology.



I gave Vol 1 a shot, but quickly saw that it was way over my head, and put it aside to come back to at a later date, when I've got a bit more of the background Jacob mentions above.


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## JimmyH (Jan 12, 2019)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Surely not!
> 
> Can you give a date for such an occurrence?
> 
> ...


Dr Strange, to better understand the humor behind your post above, is it safe to assume that you were the history professor that made the program so weighty ?


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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 12, 2019)

JimmyH said:


> so weighty



Yes, but I've lost some weight since Ruben was here!

Peace,
Alan

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## Pergamum (Jan 12, 2019)

I would guess that Greek..and even moreso Hebrew is the hardest part for most academically.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 12, 2019)

The hardest class you take is "yourself." I failed that class. I majored on minors. Granted, I had no business being in the ministry, so God used that to get me out of there. Ironically, I know more about the languages now than then.

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## greenbaggins (Jan 12, 2019)

John Yap said:


> In terms of grasping a concept (vs exams and memory work) - what course was the hardest?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



All of Gaffin's classes were hard in the sense that the concepts were demanding. I don't know that I could single one out. Being prepared for seminary doesn't necessarily involve knowing which classes will be hard. Which seminary are you attending?


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## DTK (Jan 12, 2019)

Studying languages beforehand can aid in preparing one for seminary, but there's another sense in which nothing can prepare you for seminary, and that's probably a good thing.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 12, 2019)

DTK said:


> Studying languages beforehand can aid in preparing one for seminary, but there's another sense in which nothing can prepare you for seminary, and that's probably a good thing.



That was true for me on both fronts. I minored in Greek and German in college, so Greek wasn't really an issue for me. Hebrew was and it never "clicked" (which was weird, since I am usually good at languages). 

I was more interested in theonomy and postmillennialism, and that was when everybody was accusing everybody of knowing someone whose cousin knew someone who was a Federal Visionist. I was all messed up.

But again, God used it for the best. I wasn't supposed to be in ministry. Now I help more people than I possibly could by being a (semi) educated layman at the church and leading discussions.

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## bookslover (Jan 12, 2019)

Those nuts who took Beginning Hebrew and Beginning Greek at the same time. That's the hardest thing anyone can do in seminary. (I was not one of those nuts.)

When taking one of the languages, the most important thing you have to do is to keep up with the vocabulary. If you don't do that, it'll take you longer and longer, as the lessons progress, to get the work done.

It's also interesting to discover that you find yourself understanding the grammar you learned about a month earlier better even as, a month later, you're learning new things you don't understand yet.


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## DTK (Jan 12, 2019)

bookslover said:


> It's also interesting to discover that you find yourself understanding the grammar you learned about a month earlier better even as, a month later, you're learning new things you don't understand yet.


Yes, and for anyone like myself who never took English grammar seriously, when you begin to study any foreign language, being confronted with all that grammar stuff, and various parts of speech, you begin to learn all that English grammar you previously ignored, and for which you have a brand new appreciation. I never gave a rip about what a direct object was until I became the direct object suffering from that lack of rip.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 12, 2019)

DTK said:


> Yes, and for anyone like myself who never took English grammar seriously, when you begin to study any foreign language, being confronted with all that grammar stuff, and various parts of speech, you begin to learn all that English grammar you previously ignored, and for which you have a brand new appreciation. I never gave a rip about what a direct object was until I became the direct object suffering from that lack of rip.



I didn't take English grammar seriously until I studied German. Now I teach English grammar. I used to tell new seminarians, "You must be willing to die for a direct object." I've backed off on that somewhat.

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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 12, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> I used to tell new seminarians, "You must be willing to die for a direct object." I've backed off on that somewhat.



Good! You were being accusative! 

Seriously, Jacob, I am grateful for your candor in a previous post, in which you said that the hardest class is "yourself." That's true for us all. One can only hope to come to see it sooner rather than later (some never seem to see it all, alas!).

Peace,
Alan

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## RamistThomist (Jan 12, 2019)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Good! You were being accusative!
> 
> Seriously, Jacob, I am grateful for your candor in a previous post, in which you said that the hardest class is "yourself." That's true for us all. One can only hope to come to see it sooner rather than later (some never seem to see it all, alas!).
> 
> ...



I can tell you the exact moment. I am sure you know who Alan Curry is. It was in his Christian ed class (November-December, 2006) and he was just speaking in general and I realized, "That's it." That was towards the end of the semester. 3 months later I was teaching in a local school. Been doing that for the past ten years. It's my calling.

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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 12, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> I am sure you know who Alan Curry is. It was in his Christian ed class (November-December, 2006) and he was just speaking in general and I realized, "That's it."



I certainly do know Allen Curry and I am glad for your recounting of his role in your life. He is a prince of a fellow. 

Peace,
Alan

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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jan 12, 2019)

John Yap said:


> Not talking about the spiritual / family part which is of course challenging. But academically, what was the toughest part you remember? Which course etc., made you stare blankly at your computer screen? Or perhaps it was languages?


Mine was a wee bit different than most, as the single most academically challenging course was Roman Catholic Dogma. The required text at the time (1975):
https://www.amazon.com/Fundamentals-Catholic-Dogma-Ludwig-Ott/dp/0895550091/

Yeah, I know. I know.


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## greenbaggins (Jan 12, 2019)

I've read that book. Quite rigorous and invigorating from the RCC standpoint. Pre-Vatican II theology, though.

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## DTK (Jan 12, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> I've read that book. Quite rigorous and invigorating from the RCC standpoint. Pre-Vatican II theology, though.


Indeed Lane, the Roman apologetic target is in continuous flux. After all, a moving target greases the merry-go-round. If your Vatican II approach is shot down, just shift back to Ott & Trent's approach, and _vice versa_. For Rome's sake, you can have your cake and eat it too, because consistency is not required in the field of Roman apologetics.

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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jan 12, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> I've read that book. Quite rigorous and invigorating from the RCC standpoint. Pre-Vatican II theology, though.


Yes. 

The terseness of the text required the students to unpack the summaries by application of numerous other pronouncements from Rome, ECF, etc. I nearly lived in the library throughout the course.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 12, 2019)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> I nearly lived in the library throughout the course.



Ah, what bliss!

Peace,
Alan

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## bookslover (Jan 12, 2019)

DTK said:


> Yes, and for anyone like myself who never took English grammar seriously, when you begin to study any foreign language, being confronted with all that grammar stuff, and various parts of speech, you begin to learn all that English grammar you previously ignored, and for which you have a brand new appreciation. I never gave a rip about what a direct object was until I became the direct object suffering from that lack of rip.



That's the experience of a lot of seminary students, I think. If you don't know what an adjective is in English, you're not going to know what one is in Hebrew or Greek, either.

Another thing you realize in studying these languages (or any other two or more languages) is that every language does the same things - they just do them in different ways, unique (more or less) to that language.


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 12, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> All of Gaffin's classes were hard in the sense that the concepts were demanding. I don't know that I could single one out. Being prepared for seminary doesn't necessarily involve knowing which classes will be hard. Which seminary are you attending?



PRTS God willing 


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 12, 2019)

DTK said:


> Yes, and for anyone like myself who never took English grammar seriously, when you begin to study any foreign language, being confronted with all that grammar stuff, and various parts of speech, you begin to learn all that English grammar you previously ignored, and for which you have a brand new appreciation. I never gave a rip about what a direct object was until I became the direct object suffering from that lack of rip.


Very true. I never understood why people kept posting here that they learned as much about English as they did about Greek when they started studying it. I actually know how to use "who" vs "whom" now!


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## py3ak (Jan 12, 2019)

If a seminary is small enough that professors can get to know you, it should certainly be the case that you are introduced to some new ideas. A general flexibility of mind that enjoys learning new ways of looking at things will be a great help for tackling whatever difficult concepts might come up.

A related benefit is that one can be introduced to new and very worthwhile authors. Had I not gone, I don't know that I would have been introduced, for instance, to R.W. Southern, Peter Brown, Steven Ozment, and E. Brooks Holifield. But I happily remember summer breaks when there was time to read such authors beyond the curricular requirements.

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## deleteduser99 (Jan 13, 2019)

John Yap said:


> PRTS God willing
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Be sure to come visit us at First RP sometime . We meet in the chapel every Lord's Day.


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 13, 2019)

Harley said:


> Be sure to come visit us at First RP sometime . We meet in the chapel every Lord's Day.



Would not pass up a chance to listen to Craig Scott. Speaking of which, which seminary did he go to?


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## deleteduser99 (Jan 13, 2019)

John Yap said:


> Would not pass up a chance to listen to Craig Scott. Speaking of which, which seminary did he go to?
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



I'll have to ask him since I don't know the Scottish seminaries that well. I believe he studied in Edinborough.


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