# Pastor or Priest?



## Hamalas (Dec 2, 2009)

I got into a discussion tonight with an Anglo-catholic friend of mine who argued that the only reason Protestants don't use the term "Priest" is to distance themselves from the Catholic church. Another friend of mine (who happens to be Presbyterian) argued that the reason was fundamentally theological, because Christ is our only priest, and our only mediator. What say ye? Why don't we use the term priest?


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## Mushroom (Dec 2, 2009)

Priest infers mediator. There is only One.


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## Philip (Dec 2, 2009)

Just a note that "priest" is derived from _presbutyros_, or elder. "Pastor" is simply the Latin for "shepherd."


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## Prufrock (Dec 2, 2009)

Because, realistically speaking, the pastor (while he *is*), indeed, a priest, is no more one than the rest of his. This does not "level the plain," so to speak, between ministers and others; it simply indicates that the difference between the two is not "levels of priestliness," for they are priests only with respect to their persons (as with all believers by virtue of their union with Christ), and not their office. This is, of course, further reinforced by the fact that in Roman Catholicism, the "Priest" really is just that: a man who exercises a priestly office of offering up sacrifices to God on behalf of the people.


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2009)

Your friend is right, but it's also the case that the New Testament clearly teaches that the leaders of the church are called episkopoi (overseers/elders), presbuteroi (presbyters/elders) or poimenas (pastors/shepherds). There are no "new covenant priests" spoken of (except in the usage of the 'kingdom of priests' analogy, which doesn't serve the Anglo-Catholic claim either).


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## Prufrock (Dec 2, 2009)

P. F. Pugh said:


> Just a note that "priest" is derived from _presbutyros_, or elder. "Pastor" is simply the Latin for "shepherd."



While etymologically true, I think this serves to shed more confusion on the matter than clarity. In actual, normal and present usage, Priest and Presbyter are not used synonymously; and distinction is made between the two by those who desire the title of Priest with respect to their office. Further, the scriptural usage itself requires us to make a distinction, as Todd has noted above. So, through a certain amount of intriguing knowledge, to begin to apply the term "Priest" to our pastors would edify only the one puffed up through this knowledge, while causing confusion and bringing in superstition among our brethren.


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## au5t1n (Dec 2, 2009)

Priest comes from _presbuteros_, but unfortunately our word "priest" has taken on the meaning of the Greek word for a temple priest, which is not _presbuteros_. So "priest" is correct etymologically, but not according to modern usage of the term.


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2009)

Prufrock said:


> P. F. Pugh said:
> 
> 
> > Just a note that "priest" is derived from _presbutyros_, or elder. "Pastor" is simply the Latin for "shepherd."
> ...



I was going to reply to this etymological issue as well - the English word "priest" may very well come from presbyter, but it cannot by meaning be confused with presbyter... and the word priest is used to translate a very specific word, hierus, which is used to describe the old covenant mediatorial office (and Christ alone, the mediator of the new covenant to which the priests of the old covenant typified).


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## Philip (Dec 2, 2009)

I'll just further note that within Anglicanism there is a debate over whether the second order of ministry (i.e. the pastorate) are to be called "presbyters" or "priests".


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2009)

P. F. Pugh said:


> I'll just further note that within Anglicanism there is a debate over whether the second order of ministry (i.e. the pastorate) are to be called "presbyters" or "priests".



Hm. So I take it there's no hope within Anglicanism for the 'first order' to be disbanded?


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 2, 2009)

Romans 15:15-17



> 15 I have written you quite boldly on some points, as if to remind you of them again, because of the grace God gave me 16 to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles _*with the priestly duty of proclaiming the gospel of God*_, so that the Gentiles might become an offering acceptable to God, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. 17 Therefore I glory in Christ Jesus in my service to God.



Here Paul seems to say that a calling to proclaim the Gospel is a _priestly_ duty. 

How does this factor into our understanding of the function, role, purpose, and duty of a priest as well as our understanding of the pastoral office?


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## Philip (Dec 2, 2009)

toddpedlar said:


> P. F. Pugh said:
> 
> 
> > I'll just further note that within Anglicanism there is a debate over whether the second order of ministry (i.e. the pastorate) are to be called "presbyters" or "priests".
> ...



They're not called episcopal for nothing.


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## Christusregnat (Dec 2, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> Romans 15:15-17
> 
> 
> 
> ...



If I'm not mistaken, the same root word is used in Romans 13:6 of the magistrate. It is a sacred service and function performed under divine directive. The allusion does not appear to necessarily imply sacrificial worship.

Also, it should be noted that the Greek term for priest, hieros, is properly translated "priest" (with sacerdotal intent), while the term presbuteros is rightly translated elder: one was a temple term, the other a synagogue term.

Cheers,


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