# Genesis 15:17



## choochoo (Jun 18, 2010)

"And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces." Gen. 15:17(AV) 

What exactly do the 'smoking furnace' and 'burning lamp' signify and represent? 

The two views I've come across are: 

1) Furnace = affliction in Egypt; Lamp = deliverance from Egypt 

2) Furnace & Lamp = God (as in, God passing through for both He and Abram) 

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Please reply with how you've come to your conclusion; and if view #2, please specify precisely what the furnace and lamp are representing, and why that is so.


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## Timothy William (Jun 18, 2010)

Genesis 15 (King James Version)
1After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward. 

Furnace => Shield (The Lord burning up his enemies.)
Lamp => Reward.


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## larryjf (Jun 18, 2010)

It's hard for me to think that a shield, which is a defensive part of the armory, would be signified by a furnace burning up enemies...which would be offensive.

Therefore i think...

Furnace --> Israel in the iron furnace of Israel ...

_Which I commanded your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, from *the iron furnace*, saying, Obey my voice, and do them, according to all which I command you: so shall ye be my people, and I will be your God: (Jer 11:4)
_

Lamp --> God's presence, perhaps in delivering Israel from the furnace or leading them through the wilderness.

_And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in *a flame of fire* out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed. (Exo 3:2)
_

_And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in *a pillar of fire*, to give them light; to go by day and night: (Exo 13:21)
_


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## baron (Jun 18, 2010)

Matthew Henry says the smoking furnace signified the affliction of his seed in Egypt Deut. 4:20, isa 48:10.

The burning lamp denotes comfort in this affliction, and this God showed to Abram, at the sametime he showed him the smoking furnace. Light denotes deliverance out of the furnace; their salvation was a lamp that burneth, Isa.62:1. page 84-5


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## Jack K (Jun 18, 2010)

In one sense it must be God, right? After all, God is making the covenant with Abram. And the fire and smoke imagery is not all that different from God's appearance on Mt. Sinai for the covenant-making there, or the pillar of fire in the wilderness. God is like a fire, both fearsome and consuming like a furnace and enlightening like a torch.

I'd say it could also be a foreshadowing of afflictions and comforts yet to come. Certainly, these themes are developed as the Scriptures continue. But it seems that verse 18 "On that day the LORD made a covenant with Abram" is the primary explanation of what's just happened. God passed through the pieces.


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## choochoo (Jun 24, 2010)

Is there anyone on the board, or has anyone read of someone else, who believes that this event was God announcing (or re-announcing, I should say) THE 'Covenant of Grace', wherein God agrees to die for His people? 

(As in, two parties (not Abram and God, since he was asleep), but God and God passing through, in order to cut the covenant wherein God agrees to perform the requirements of both sides of the covenant. The Father requiring perfect righteousness in order to grant eternal life, on the one side; and on the other, the Son providing that righteousness for His people through His work of redemption.)


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## fredtgreco (Jun 25, 2010)

choochoo said:


> Is there anyone on the board, or has anyone read of someone else, who believes that this event was God announcing (or re-announcing, I should say) THE 'Covenant of Grace', wherein God agrees to die for His people?
> 
> (As in, two parties (not Abram and God, since he was asleep), but God and God passing through, in order to cut the covenant wherein God agrees to perform the requirements of both sides of the covenant. The Father requiring perfect righteousness in order to grant eternal life, on the one side; and on the other, the Son providing that righteousness for His people through His work of redemption.)


 Yes.


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## chbrooking (Jun 25, 2010)

Yes


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## Jack K (Jun 25, 2010)

choochoo said:


> Is there anyone on the board, or has anyone read of someone else, who believes that this event was God announcing (or re-announcing, I should say) THE 'Covenant of Grace', wherein God agrees to die for His people?
> 
> (As in, two parties (not Abram and God, since he was asleep), but God and God passing through, in order to cut the covenant wherein God agrees to perform the requirements of both sides of the covenant. The Father requiring perfect righteousness in order to grant eternal life, on the one side; and on the other, the Son providing that righteousness for His people through His work of redemption.)


Me too.


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