# Is every Christian a missionary and every place a missions field?



## Pergamum

If yes, why?

If no, why not?


If someone you knew held to the view with which you disagree, what is your best response to them?


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## au5t1n

Missionary, from Latin "missus" meaning "sent." So a missionary is one sent to spread the gospel. In a hyper-spiritualized sense, we might legitimately apply this to all believers, but in technical terms a missionary is one sent to preach the gospel somewhere "not here," hence the "sent."


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## Notthemama1984

Pergamum said:


> If someone you knew held to the view with which you disagree, what is your best response to them?



I am right. You are wrong. Get over it. 

In all seriousness I would just be respectful. State my view and let it be.


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## steadfast7

My opinion on this is changing. I used to cringe at that definition of "missionary" out of fear that people would stop becoming long-term cross cultural missionaries, but fear is no reason to hold a particular view, and we're seeing lots of people becoming career missionaries. I see it as an _ideal_ that "missionary" be used to describe people who are called and sent break new ground and to be involved in reaching those who have never heard, but the simple fact is that most missionaries do not belong to this category. Where I am, the majority of missionaries have not been sent to any particular place or people but stay where they live because it's the mission field. I know of people who have been sent by mission agencies to South Korea or Germany as missionaries. In my mind, it's a poor allocation of resources, but I wouldn't strip away that title from them. If God has called them, then so be it. 

I still think, though, that the term should be reserved to people who are actively engaged in some kind of work and not an excuse that's given by complacent people.


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## TheocraticMonarchist

I would think that loving my neighbor as myself would entail me telling them about the salvation freely offered in Jesus, and that in order to properly glorify God in my life they would have to know who I am glorifying, since there are many "gods". I’m ok with this cliché because everyone is called to love their neighbor and glorify God, a little “m” missionary as they go through life glorifying Christ. There are, however, trained vocational ministers that are set aside for missions work, and I think those who feel secure in their calling would not have a problem with this little saying.


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## dudley

The American Heritage dictionary defines missionary as one who is sent on a mission, especially one sent to do religious or charitable work in a territory or foreign country. One who attempts to persuade or convert others to a particular program, doctrine, or set of principles; a propagandist.

A missionary is a member of a religious group sent into an area to do evangelism or ministries of service, such as education, literacy, social justice, health care and economic development

The first Protestant missionaries were John Eliot and contemporary ministers including John Cotton and Richard Bourne, who ministered to the Algonquin natives who lived in lands claimed by representatives of the Massachusetts Bay Colony in the early 17th century. Quaker "publishers of truth" visited Boston and other mid-17th century colonies but were not always well-received.

Jesus instructed the apostles to make disciples of all nations (Matthew 28:19–20). This verse is referred to by Christian missionaries as the Great Commission and inspires missionary work. 

I will agree that only trained and ordained ministers of the Gospel should be the official evangelizers and missionaries in the church. But we can all be witnesses to this Gospel and lead souls to the church and then the properly trained ministers to complete the process of evangelization. It is in that endeavor that if a non believer asks me why I am a Presbyterian and a Protestant or a Roman Catholic friend asks me why I converted and what is it that I have found in the Protestant fold and the Presbyterian church that I did not know as a catholic I will answer.

I will tell them that I have discovered and met a personal Jesus in the Protestant fold and the Presbyterian church that I never knew in the catholic church. I tell them all the times I went to mass, went to confession, received their communion., said the rosary or prayed before what they call the blessed sacrament I never knew or met a personal Jesus …I then tell them about what I have experienced as Protestant and I invite them to come to bible class with me and a Sunday morning service. From there it is in Gods hands and I know some of the Catholics who have been invited stay and eventually become Protestants , they discover the true Gospel as I did.


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## steadfast7

Joshua said:


> One must give a biblical definition of "missionary" and "missions" first before the other questions may be answered. It appears to me that the missionary work of Preaching, Sacrament, and Church-planting we see being accomplished in Scripture belonged to officers in the church, commissioned by the Lord via Presbyteries, etc. In that _particular_ regard, not everyone is a missionary. However, Christians in the church need to support the ministry of the Word by praying for the Pastor & session, tithing, the mission work he/they may be doing, attend upon their preaching, speak to others when opportunity arises about the great things Christ has done for them, and be forward to invite others to church, etc.


 The big question is what happens when there is no church and no official church officers to administer the sacraments. Are we to conclude that where there is no ordained presbytery, there is no church and no mission?


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## FCC

"Let your light so shine before men, that they may see ytour good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt. 5:16

"And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen." Matt. 28:18-20

I am not sure where this conversation is supposed to go, but I do think we have to make an effort to define our terms. Missionary is a broad term to many people and in the context of Scripture it is fairly well defined. I would say that each Christian as a duty to obey Christ's command in Matthew 5: 16 and surrounding verses to let their light shine! I would go on to say that the actual missionary function of the church is given to the eldership. They are empowered by Christ to conduct the public preaching of the word, the giving of the sacraments and church discipline. We all have a function in the body of Christ let us be busy fulfilling it!


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## au5t1n

steadfast7 said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> One must give a biblical definition of "missionary" and "missions" first before the other questions may be answered. It appears to me that the missionary work of Preaching, Sacrament, and Church-planting we see being accomplished in Scripture belonged to officers in the church, commissioned by the Lord via Presbyteries, etc. In that _particular_ regard, not everyone is a missionary. However, Christians in the church need to support the ministry of the Word by praying for the Pastor & session, tithing, the mission work he/they may be doing, attend upon their preaching, speak to others when opportunity arises about the great things Christ has done for them, and be forward to invite others to church, etc.
> 
> 
> 
> The big question is what happens when there is no church and no official church officers to administer the sacraments. Are we to conclude that where there is no ordained presbytery, there is no church and no mission?
Click to expand...

 
I thought we were talking about whether there's a missionary, not whether there's a church and mission.


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## steadfast7

austinww said:


> I thought we were talking about whether there's a missionary, not whether there's a church and mission.



There are many, like David above, who says,


> I would go on to say that the actual missionary function of the church is given to the eldership. They are empowered by Christ to conduct the public preaching of the word, the giving of the sacraments and church discipline


 If this is so, then one can conclude that there is no mission outside the eldership. While this is fine in contexts where there are plenty of ordained clergy and established churches, this is simply not the case in most parts of the world where the gospel is spreading.


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## PuritanCovenanter

And as a light that has been set upon a Hill I shall do as He has commanded me. I will proclaim the good news as my denomination sees very fit. 


Next to Chapter 10 on Effectual Calling the RPCNA testimony states....



> 6. Evangelism is the proclamation of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord as he is offered in the Gospel. Christ laid the responsibility upon the whole Church to make this proclamation. The task is not restricted to ordained officers. Each member is to take his share of the responsibility according to the gifts God has given him.
> 
> 7. Those evangelizing should use all available means consistent with the Bible so that every person may be given the opportunity to hear, understand, and receive the Gospel. While guarding against undue pressure, we must urge men to be reconciled to God.
> 
> 8. Evangelism is not only to seek the conversion of sinners but also to build them up to become effective in the Church's continuing task.
> 
> 9. The Great Commission requires the Church to take the whole Gospel to the whole world. The Bible recognizes the legitimacy of diverse cultures. Every culture is to be transformed and made subject to Christ through redeemed men, all for the glory of God.
> 
> 10. Wherever consistent with faithfulness to God's truth, different branches of the visible church should cooperate in evangelism to strengthen their witness by demonstrating their unity in Christ.


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## seajayrice

Yes we are missionaries with a little "m." Are we "Ambassadors" as well?


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## Pilgrim

Pergamum said:


> If yes, why?
> 
> If no, why not?
> 
> 
> If someone you knew held to the view with which you disagree, what is your best response to them?



I think all Christians are called to share their faith with others in accordance with their gifting and knowledge, etc. But that is not the same as being set apart and sent forth as a missionary, an evangelist or minister of the Gospel whether in a "home" or "foreign" field. I can hardly think of any other NT teaching that is easier to demonstrate. Are all set apart by the Holy Ghost and sent forth as Paul and Barnabas were? 

Missional or being "on mission" is an emphasis you increasingly see in evangelical churches. From what I can see online it is a particular emphasis with many Calvinist leaning Southern Baptists. It's a reaction against the idea that Christians that are not in leadership basically have no part or responsibility in ministry at all beyond regular church attendance. To that extent it can be seen as a healthy emphasis. But some of the terminology can lead to confusion if not clarified and some of the applications of contextualization have come under criticism from Reformed and non-Reformed alike.


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## jambo

Yes, every Christian is a missionary. That is every Christian is tasked with engaging in mission. To be Christ's witnesses, to be salt and light, to give a reason for the hope they have within them, to live holy, God glorifying, Christ exalting, self abasing lives. To seek first the kingdom and God's righteousness and in the reaching out to the lost. Christ reached out as as his followers we are to, as far as we can, be imitators of him. For some that may be going overseas into a cross cultural situation. For many others it would be where we are here and now. Jesus told the healed demoniac in Mk 5.19 to go home to his family and friends and tell them what the Lord did for him and how he had mercy on him. I do believe that is the key

Wherever there are non-Christians then you have a mission field. I tend to think not so much a mission field but more a vineyard. The question to ask is what part of the vineyard are you working in? For some they may be labouring hard and feeling the heat of the day. For others it might be in a cooler more shaded area of the vineyard. Some may be doing the back breaking work of digging, others may be removing weeds, some may be planting, some tending and others reaping but we are serving somewhere in it under the direction of the Lord of the harvest who with all certainty will gather every last piece of fruit.


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## Edward

steadfast7 said:


> If this is so, then one can conclude that there is no mission outside the eldership. While this is fine in contexts where there are plenty of ordained clergy and established churches, this is simply not the case in most parts of the world where the gospel is spreading.



Your conclusion doesn't follow from the proposition. The missionary is sent FROM the church, not TO the church (although the sent elder may work with an established local church if one is available.) But the fact that there is not an organized church where the missionary is sent does not change the fact that he was sent from a church.


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## kvanlaan

I remember reading on this board, that if you are not a missionary, you are a missions field. If the joy of what Christ has done for you doesn't bubble out of you like a fountain (in the same way that those who were healed of their infirmities by Christ behaved - and yet that was the minor point in their meeting with Christ), then what do you really have?


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## Osage Bluestem

Pergamum said:


> If yes, why?
> 
> If no, why not?
> 
> 
> If someone you knew held to the view with which you disagree, what is your best response to them?


 
1. Yes - Because the Spirit of God lives in them. The Trinity is in unity and the mission of the Lord is to seek and to save that which is lost. A Christian is compelled to share the gospel.

2. I would tell them that they need to evangelize for Christ in their daily lives homes and communities or they are not good stewards of what the Lord has given them.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> A Christian is compelled to share the gospel.



What is the difference between sharing the Gospel and preaching the Gospel?


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Christian is compelled to share the gospel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between sharing the Gospel and preaching the Gospel?
Click to expand...

 
Sharing the gospel is giving your personal testimony. Preaching the gospel is giving the Lord's testimony.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Christian is compelled to share the gospel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between sharing the Gospel and preaching the Gospel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sharing the gospel is giving your personal testimony. Preaching the gospel is giving the Lord's testimony.
Click to expand...


Can you back this up Scripturally?


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> A Christian is compelled to share the gospel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What is the difference between sharing the Gospel and preaching the Gospel?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sharing the gospel is giving your personal testimony. Preaching the gospel is giving the Lord's testimony.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Can you back this up Scripturally?
Click to expand...

 
Yes.

*Preachers are sent by God and proclaim the word of God:*
Acts 1:8 ESV
8 But you will receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you, and you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

Mark 16:15 ESV
And he said to them, “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation

Exodus 4:10-12 ESV
But Moses said to the Lord, “Oh, my Lord, I am not eloquent, either in the past or since you have spoken to your servant, but I am slow of speech and of tongue.” Then the Lord said to him, “Who has made man's mouth? Who makes him mute, or deaf, or seeing, or blind? Is it not I, the Lord? Now therefore go, and I will be with your mouth and teach you what you shall speak.” 

1 Corinthians 1:21 ESV
For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 

1 Corinthians 2:13 ESV
And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual. 

1 Corinthians 1:17 ESV
For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power. 


*Everyone who is saved shares the gospel in praising God and telling their testimony:*
Acts 2:47 ESV
47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to their number day by day those who were being saved.

Acts 4:21 ESV
21 And when they had further threatened them, they let them go, finding no way to punish them, because of the people, for all were praising God for what had happened.



Sharing the gospel is praising God indeed and telling of the great things he has done in your life. God uses our praises and adds to the number of people being saved.


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## Notthemama1984

It would seem to me that verse 42 describes early church services and the rest of the chapter is a result of those services. It does not seem to say that the addition of souls is a result of praising God.

Also making sharing the Gospel and praising God as synonyms seems to be importing 21st century terminology into Scripture.


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> It would seem to me that verse 42 describes early church services and the rest of the chapter is a result of those services. It does not seem to say that the addition of souls is a result of praising God.



The addition of souls is always the result of praising God. Faith comes from hearing and hearing from the word of Christ. What a person hears is the great things that God has done, his praises.



> Also making sharing the Gospel and praising God as synonyms seems to be importing 21st century terminology into Scripture.



The gospel is the story of God's greatest deed and is thus his greatest praise.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> The gospel is the story of God's greatest deed and is thus his greatest praise.



But the Greek is describing the people singing praises to God. You are using your definition of "praise" and attempting to use this verse to say that everyone was "sharing their personal testimony." The passage says nothing about giving a testimony.


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> The gospel is the story of God's greatest deed and is thus his greatest praise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the Greek is describing the people singing praises to God. You are using your definition of "praise" and attempting to use this verse to say that everyone was "sharing their personal testimony." The passage says nothing about giving a testimony.
Click to expand...

 
Praising God is always giving a testimony. The two cannot be separated.

Here are some more if you don't like those: 

1 Peter 3:15 ESV
But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect, 

Colossians 4:6 ESV
Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person. 

Romans 1:16 ESV
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> Praising God is always giving a testimony. The two cannot be separated.
> 
> Here are some more if you don't like those:
> 
> 1 Peter 3:15 ESV
> But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
> 
> Colossians 4:6 ESV
> Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
> 
> Romans 1:16 ESV
> For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.



The passage is describing a church service. It is not describing everyone being missionaries. 

Also Colossians and Romans say nothing about "giving your testimony" as "sharing the Gospel."


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Praising God is always giving a testimony. The two cannot be separated.
> 
> Here are some more if you don't like those:
> 
> 1 Peter 3:15 ESV
> But in your hearts honor Christ the Lord as holy, always being prepared to make a defense to anyone who asks you for a reason for the hope that is in you; yet do it with gentleness and respect,
> 
> Colossians 4:6 ESV
> Let your speech always be gracious, seasoned with salt, so that you may know how you ought to answer each person.
> 
> Romans 1:16 ESV
> For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The passage is describing a church service. It is not describing everyone being missionaries.
> 
> Also Colossians and Romans say nothing about "giving your testimony" as "sharing the Gospel."
Click to expand...

 
Any description of praising God is giving a testimony. All Christians who praise God to those around them are going to give a testimony of their salvation because that is the great thing God has done for them. If they don't then they have wasted an oppourtunity to share the gospel and have been a bad steward.

Also a Christian will be filled with Love for others. And christian love demands that the gospel be shared with everyone because it is the only thing on earth that really matters. Our very purpose on earth in this redeemed state is to praise God and fight the fight. There is no other reason to live.

Proverbs 11:30 ESV
The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life, and whoever captures souls is wise. 

Galatians 5:22-23 ESV
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

1 Peter 2:9 ESV
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, *that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.*

True Christian Love by A.W. Pink


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> Any description of praising God is giving a testimony.



This is not true. One can be praising God for His beautiful creation and never delve into anything remotely soteriological. Although we praise God for the salvation of our souls, it is not the only thing we praise God for.


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any description of praising God is giving a testimony.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is not true. One can be praising God for His beautiful creation and never delve into anything remotely soteriological. Although we praise God for the salvation of our souls, it is not the only thing we praise God for.
Click to expand...

 
The gospel is the victory over all evil sin and death that we praise God for and is the principle focus of our age. Therefore it should arise as the focal point of interaction with unbelievers because our purpose here is to bear witness to Christ.


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## steadfast7

Edward said:


> steadfast7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> If this is so, then one can conclude that there is no mission outside the eldership. While this is fine in contexts where there are plenty of ordained clergy and established churches, this is simply not the case in most parts of the world where the gospel is spreading.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your conclusion doesn't follow from the proposition. The missionary is sent FROM the church, not TO the church (although the sent elder may work with an established local church if one is available.) But the fact that there is not an organized church where the missionary is sent does not change the fact that he was sent from a church.
Click to expand...


Edward, I was responding to Joshua who said:


> It appears to me that the missionary work of Preaching, Sacrament, and Church-planting we see being accomplished in Scripture belonged to officers in the church, commissioned by the Lord via Presbyteries, etc.


And David Biser who said:


> I would go on to say that the actual missionary function of the church is given to the eldership. They are empowered by Christ to conduct the public preaching of the word, the giving of the sacraments and church discipline.



If i'm reading them correctly, they are saying that the missionary is primarily one who preaches, administers sacrament and church discipline - functions which are held by elders under presbyteries. This suggests that the work of the missionary on the mission field is the same as the work of a pastor/elder in a church. Being sent _from_ a church is understood and not challenged, but what is missionary activity once they are on the field?


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## Pergamum

Dennis, furthermore, it would deny that churches can sometimes spontanously generate due to possession of radio ministries or a bible without the presence of an elder.


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## steadfast7

This thread is helping me to narrow my definition of "missionary". If I'm not wrong, it's only within the past few decades has the term been used to define the "average" Christian sharing Christ in their own circumstances and locale. Historically and biblically (apostelos) it has never been used in such a way. If the word "missionary" is to have any continuity in meaning with scripture and history, then it should not be used to describe someone who is staying home and doing as they have always done. Consider also that the word "mission" is not only used in Christian ministry, but soldiers, astronauts, and diplomats go on missions too - all with the connotation that they are being sent somewhere foreign to accomplish a task.

I'd really like to know WHY we want the word to describe the average Christian in their hometown.


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## PuritanCovenanter

I just want to interject here that not all Reformed Presbyterian's hold to this view some are claiming that only ordained people are called to evangelize. My denomination does not agree with such a narrow understanding. So please don't let this get to be an emotional rant and or with harsh argumentation. I do believe it is a very small amount of guys and a very small denomination that holds to this view. As I noted above.....




PuritanCovenanter said:


> And as a light that has been set upon a Hill I shall do as He has commanded me. I will proclaim the good news as my denomination sees very fit.
> 
> 
> Next to Chapter 10 on Effectual Calling the RPCNA testimony states....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Evangelism is the proclamation of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord as he is offered in the Gospel. *Christ laid the responsibility upon the whole Church* to make this proclamation. *The task is not restricted to ordained officers.* Each member is to take his share of the responsibility according to the gifts God has given him.
> 
> 7. Those evangelizing should use all available means consistent with the Bible so that every person may be given the opportunity to hear, understand, and receive the Gospel. While guarding against undue pressure, we must urge men to be reconciled to God.
> 
> 8. Evangelism is not only to seek the conversion of sinners but also to build them up to become effective in the Church's continuing task.
> 
> 9. The Great Commission requires the Church to take the whole Gospel to the whole world. The Bible recognizes the legitimacy of diverse cultures. Every culture is to be transformed and made subject to Christ through redeemed men, all for the glory of God.
> 
> 10. Wherever consistent with faithfulness to God's truth, different branches of the visible church should cooperate in evangelism to strengthen their witness by demonstrating their unity in Christ.
Click to expand...


I do believe we are commanded and commissioned by Christ as a whole Church to do this work in some capacity and at some level as the Testimony of my Church declares.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> The gospel is the victory over all evil sin and death that we praise God for and is the principle focus of our age. Therefore it should arise as the focal point of interaction with unbelievers because our purpose here is to bear witness to Christ



Singing praises to God is not the focal point of interaction with unbelievers. Praising God is pointed towards God. 

Also our purpose is to glorify God, not bear witness/share the Gospel/tell our testimony


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## PuritanCovenanter

Chaplainintraining said:


> Also our purpose is to glorify God, not bear witness/share the Gospel/tell our testimony



Do you not think God get's glory when we share the truth of His Glorious Grace?


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## Notthemama1984

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Do you not think God get's glory when we share the truth of His Glorious Grace?



Yes. He also receives glory when His Truth is exposited and proclaimed from His Scriptures, but that does not mean that every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane should preach.


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## PuritanCovenanter

Chaplainintraining said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you not think God get's glory when we share the truth of His Glorious Grace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. He also receives glory when His Truth is exposited and proclaimed from His Scriptures, but that does not mean that every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane should preach.
Click to expand...


Preaching isn't necessarily sharing or proclaiming the gospel either. Is it? And you are right. Because not every Tom, Dick, Harry or Jane truly understands it nor are every Tom, Dick, Harry, Jane necessarily regenerate. God has used a donkey before to rebuke an ignorant man. And as far as witnessing. I am not sure the effectual message has to say.... Turn to Christ. Remember Jonah. He just preached God's wrath against Nineveh and God awakened the Kings heart to seek for repentance. God fills in the blanks when He needs or wants to. God uses the whole Church to function and speak the truth though. Even if it is done in a way that some might think imperfect God providentially works to harden or soften the heart toward himself. And He gets the Glory through Christ's Person and Work.


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## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I just want to interject here that not all Reformed Presbyterian's hold to this view some are claiming that only ordained people are called to evangelize. My denomination does not agree with such a narrow understanding. So please don't let this get to be an emotional rant and or with harsh argumentation. I do believe it is a very small amount of guys and a very small denomination that holds to this view. As I noted above.....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> And as a light that has been set upon a Hill I shall do as He has commanded me. I will proclaim the good news as my denomination sees very fit.
> 
> 
> Next to Chapter 10 on Effectual Calling the RPCNA testimony states....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 6. Evangelism is the proclamation of Jesus Christ as Saviour and Lord as he is offered in the Gospel. *Christ laid the responsibility upon the whole Church* to make this proclamation. *The task is not restricted to ordained officers.* Each member is to take his share of the responsibility according to the gifts God has given him.
> 
> 7. Those evangelizing should use all available means consistent with the Bible so that every person may be given the opportunity to hear, understand, and receive the Gospel. While guarding against undue pressure, we must urge men to be reconciled to God.
> 
> 8. Evangelism is not only to seek the conversion of sinners but also to build them up to become effective in the Church's continuing task.
> 
> 9. The Great Commission requires the Church to take the whole Gospel to the whole world. The Bible recognizes the legitimacy of diverse cultures. Every culture is to be transformed and made subject to Christ through redeemed men, all for the glory of God.
> 
> 10. Wherever consistent with faithfulness to God's truth, different branches of the visible church should cooperate in evangelism to strengthen their witness by demonstrating their unity in Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I do believe we are commanded and commissioned by Christ as a whole Church to do this work in some capacity and at some level as the Testimony of my Church declares.
Click to expand...

 
I agree 100%. 

1 Peter 2:9 ESV
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.

---------- Post added at 08:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:52 AM ----------




Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> The gospel is the victory over all evil sin and death that we praise God for and is the principle focus of our age. Therefore it should arise as the focal point of interaction with unbelievers because our purpose here is to bear witness to Christ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Singing praises to God is not the focal point of interaction with unbelievers. Praising God is pointed towards God.
> 
> Also our purpose is to glorify God, not bear witness/share the Gospel/tell our testimony
Click to expand...

 
I'm sorry but that is just dead wrong. That is actually even dangerous as it is in opposition to Christ's mission. Praising God points to God and declares the great things he has done and reveals his love to sinners. While we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

Christ came to seek and to save that which was lost. He used those who were found and saved as instuments to find and save us and likewise we should be used as instruments to find and save others.

Everything around us is damned. We christians are the only ones who will survive. Even the earth is damned and will be destroyed and replaced with another. Given that, we have a mission and our mission is to be conformed to the image of Christ and that involves taking on his mission of seeking that which is lost. How can we just sit by and enjoy life at all when there are millions of people headed for hell right now? If we are content with that then the Spirit of Christ doesn't live in us.


----------



## Notthemama1984

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you not think God get's glory when we share the truth of His Glorious Grace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. He also receives glory when His Truth is exposited and proclaimed from His Scriptures, but that does not mean that every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane should preach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Preaching isn't necessarily sharing or proclaiming the gospel either. Is it? And you are right. Because not every Tom, Dick, Harry or Jane truly understands it nor are every Tom, Dick, Harry, Jane necessarily regenerate. God has used a donkey before to rebuke an ignorant man. And as far as witnessing. I am not sure the effectual message has to say.... Turn to Christ. Remember Jonah. He just preached God's wrath against Nineveh and God awakened the Kings heart to seek for repentance. God fills in the blanks when He needs or wants to. God uses the whole Church to function and speak the truth though. Even if it is done in a way that some might think imperfect God providentially works to harden or soften the heart toward himself. And He gets the Glory through Christ's Person and Work.
Click to expand...

 
The only point I was trying to make was yes we are to glorify God in all we do, but that does not mean that we are to glorify God in every possible way.

---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------




Osage Bluestem said:


> How can we just sit by and enjoy life at all when there are millions of people headed for hell right now? If we are content with that then the Spirit of Christ doesn't live in us.



No one is advocating that we just sit by. 

I will point out again that the Acts passage is describing singing. You are defining praise more broadly. I have no problem with your definition of praise, but it does not fit in the Acts passage. Therefore you cannot use this passage to prove that "sharing the Gospel=sharing one's testimony" as you originally stated.

Also if I am dead wrong, then the Divines were dead wrong and the Standards are wrong. They state that the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Everything is pointed to God. It does not say that the chief end of man is to praise God through telling our testimony.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you not think God get's glory when we share the truth of His Glorious Grace?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. He also receives glory when His Truth is exposited and proclaimed from His Scriptures, but that does not mean that every Tom, Dick, Harry, and Jane should preach.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Preaching isn't necessarily sharing or proclaiming the gospel either. Is it? And you are right. Because not every Tom, Dick, Harry or Jane truly understands it nor are every Tom, Dick, Harry, Jane necessarily regenerate. God has used a donkey before to rebuke an ignorant man. And as far as witnessing. I am not sure the effectual message has to say.... Turn to Christ. Remember Jonah. He just preached God's wrath against Nineveh and God awakened the Kings heart to seek for repentance. God fills in the blanks when He needs or wants to. God uses the whole Church to function and speak the truth though. Even if it is done in a way that some might think imperfect God providentially works to harden or soften the heart toward himself. And He gets the Glory through Christ's Person and Work.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The only point I was trying to make was yes we are to glorify God in all we do, but that does not mean that we are to glorify God in every possible way.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:05 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:00 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> How can we just sit by and enjoy life at all when there are millions of people headed for hell right now? If we are content with that then the Spirit of Christ doesn't live in us.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No one is advocating that we just sit by.
> 
> I will point out again that the Acts passage is describing singing. You are defining praise more broadly. I have no problem with your definition of praise, but it does not fit in the Acts passage. Therefore you cannot use this passage to prove that "sharing the Gospel=sharing one's testimony" as you originally stated.
> 
> Also if I am dead wrong, then the Divines were dead wrong and the Standards are wrong. They state that the chief end of man is to glorify God and enjoy Him forever. Everything is pointed to God. It does not say that the chief end of man is to praise God through telling our testimony.
Click to expand...

 
1. The Acts passage is just one that points to praising God and in our age that praise always includes the gospel message. It doesn;t matter if it is sung or spoken. The gospel can be communicated either way. Also I provided many other passages that support the idea over other posts. That first post was brief because I didn't put any effort into it.

2. We glorify God the most when we help those who are hurting. Those who are hurting the most are those who are lost. When we praise God in the gospel it serves his purpose of saving those who are lost. There is no other reason GOd would leave us here in a dying world.


----------



## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> 1. The Acts passage is just one that points to praising God and in our age that praise always includes the gospel message. It doesn;t matter if it is sung or spoken. The gospel can be communicated either way. Also I provided many other passages that support the idea over other posts. That first post was brief because I didn't put any effort into it.
> 
> 2. We glorify God the most when we help those who are hurting. Those who are hurting the most are those who are lost. When we praise God in the gospel it serves his purpose of saving those who are lost. There is no other reason GOd would leave us here in a dying world.



You cannot develop theological beliefs by taking a passage and defining it according to "our age." I pointed out how one can praise God that does not include the Gospel. So your statement is false. I agree that the Gospel can be communicated either way, I am trying to point out that the Acts passage deals with the singing.

We glorify God the most when we help those who are hurting? What is your basis for this? Luke 15 shows that parties are thrown in Heaven when people repent of their sins. It doesn't say that parties are thrown when I help those that are hurting. 

God brings about salvation through the hearing of the Word, not through "praising God in the Gospel."

Our only purpose in this dying world is to help those who are hurting? Again, what is your basis for this?

About the other passages you posted, the original question was, "Can you Scripturally prove that "sharing the Gospel=telling my personal testimony." I do not see how any of the passages proved this point.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 1. The Acts passage is just one that points to praising God and in our age that praise always includes the gospel message. It doesn;t matter if it is sung or spoken. The gospel can be communicated either way. Also I provided many other passages that support the idea over other posts. That first post was brief because I didn't put any effort into it.
> 
> 2. We glorify God the most when we help those who are hurting. Those who are hurting the most are those who are lost. When we praise God in the gospel it serves his purpose of saving those who are lost. There is no other reason GOd would leave us here in a dying world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You cannot develop theological beliefs by taking a passage and defining it according to "our age." I pointed out how one can praise God that does not include the Gospel. So your statement is false. I agree that the Gospel can be communicated either way, I am trying to point out that the Acts passage deals with the singing.
> 
> We glorify God the most when we help those who are hurting? What is your basis for this? Luke 15 shows that parties are thrown in Heaven when people repent of their sins. It doesn't say that parties are thrown when I help those that are hurting.
> 
> God brings about salvation through the hearing of the Word, not through "praising God in the Gospel."
> 
> Our only purpose in this dying world is to help those who are hurting? Again, what is your basis for this?
> 
> About the other passages you posted, the original question was, "Can you Scripturally prove that "sharing the Gospel=telling my personal testimony." I do not see how any of the passages proved this point.
Click to expand...


That's because you and I are very different in our views.

Here are some examples:

James 1:27 ESV
27 Religion that is pure and undefiled before God, the Father, is this: to visit orphans and widows in their affliction, and to keep oneself unstained from the world.

Luke 19:10 ESV
10 For the Son of Man came to seek and to save the lost.”

Philippians 1:21-24 ESV
21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 If I am to live in the flesh, that means fruitful labor for me. Yet which I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 I am hard pressed between the two. My desire is to depart and be with Christ, for that is far better. 24 But to remain in the flesh is more necessary on your account.


----------



## torstar

Different is a nice category to let flutter out into the pixie dust.

But we want to know who is right, it means a lot.

Through well tried and tested means of real scholarly study and interpretation.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

torstar said:


> Different is a nice category to let flutter out into the pixie dust.
> 
> But we want to know who is right, it means a lot.
> 
> Through well tried and tested means of real scholarly study and interpretation.


 
I believe whole heartedly that the bible teaches that Christians are to spread the gospel. So does the vast majority of christianity. There are volumes written on it.

I honestly have never even personally met someone who teaches others not to evangelize or that they need not evangelize. That to me is in opposition to the clear teachings of scripture and I have never heard that position advocated in any church even the roman one.

I hear that the hardshell primitive baptist are like that, however they are hypercalvinist and chances are you won't meet one because he won't talk to you.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> That's because you and I are very different in our views.



I am not so sure you can say this totally and accurately Don. You do see to be putting a lot of your ideas into the definitions and mismashing. I can use passages like you are to try to emphasize a point but that doesn't mean that you or I have clearly exegeted anything. 

For example Praise may be made acceptable because of the Gospel but it doesn't always point to the Gospel. I just might be thankful for God's providence of allowing our age to have toilets so that we have better hygiene. 



> (Heb 13:15) By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.





Osage Bluestem said:


> 1. The Acts passage is just one that points to praising God and in our age that praise always includes the gospel message.



You are all over the place and don't really truly respond Don. For instance.... Boliver responded to the above and you don't even comment or reply. You just move on as though it is water off of the back of a duck and it has no effect upon you. This seems to be a common way of yours. 



Chaplainintraining said:


> I pointed out how one can praise God that does not include the Gospel. So your statement is false.



It isn't just because your views are different. It is because of your methodology and hermeneutical principle. Which I am yet to understand if you have one.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I am not so sure you can say this totally and accurately Don. You do see to be putting a lot of your ideas into the definitions and mismashing. I can use passages like you are to try to emphasize a point but that doesn't mean that you have clearly exogeted anything.
> 
> For example Praise may be made acceptable because of the Gospel but it doesn't always point to the Gospel. I just might be thankful for God's providence of allowing our age to have toilets so that we have better hygiene.



1. My name is David not Don.

2. Praise always points to the gospel since the resurrection of Christ. It is the biggest news there is.



> You are all over the place and don't really truly respond Don. For instance.... Boliver responded to the above and you don't even comment or reply. You just move on as though it is water off he back of a duck and it has no effect upon you. This seems to be a common way of yours.



I utterly disagree with Bolivar. I do not think he has any biblical basis for his position nor has he provided any. I have provided much for mine and he has said he doesn't understand. I have no idea why he doesn't. I have never met anyone who thought that only ordained people should share the gospel. How in the world could anyone arrive at that conclusion?

It is a common way of mine because I discuss what interests me and I don't discuss what doesn't. Forums are time consuming and I use each one for a specific purpose. Some are for evangelizing (CARM, CF). Others are for mingling and seeing where like minded people are coming from (PB,BB).

I do not expect to change anyone on the PB so I discuss what I will and move on.

Was your last insult directed at Bolivar or me? I'll address that one if needed as well. If it's at Bolivar don't worry about it I agree.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Joshua said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> How in the world could anyone arrive at that conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> Very simply. Have you read through any of the thread? There've been several instances of folks asserting this position with biblical basis. _Ministry_ belongs to _ministers_. We must look at the word _evangelism_ and see how it's used in Scripture. In Scripture, it belongs to _ministers_. The _ministry_ of Reconicilation belongs to _ministers_. To place that burden upon laypersons is to do more than Scripture does. _Evangelism_ means something more narrow in Scripture than the things which you've said. The problem is taking passages that apply to ministers of the Gospel, i.e. those who are "sent", and making that applicable to every Christian without exception.
Click to expand...

 
That view is unbiblical. The Spirit of God lives in every christian or he isn't a christian. By just the fruits of the Spirit alone a christian will inevitably evangelize it is in his very nature. To not evangelize is to go utterly against christian nature.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> Was your last insult directed at Bolivar or me? I'll address that one if needed as well. If it's at Bolivar don't worry about it I agree.



You aren't even reading contextually. The above proves it. It wasn't an insult either. It was a criticism of your methodology. 



Osage Bluestem said:


> Boliver responded to the above and you don't even comment or reply. You just move on as though it is water off he back of a duck and it has no effect upon you. This seems to be a common way of yours.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> You aren't even reading contextually. The above proves it. It wasn't an insult either. It was a criticism of your methodology.



Well the way you quoted it showed that you quoted Bolivar. So, I believed it was directed at him. The same way below you quoted yourself and made it look like me....




Osage Bluestem said:


> Boliver responded to the above and you don't even comment or reply. You just move on as though it is water off he back of a duck and it has no effect upon you. This seems to be a common way of yours.




Note: I use the historical grammatical hermeneutic observing the law of non contradiction to answer the question.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> How in the world could anyone arrive at that conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> Very simply. Have you read through any of the thread? There've been several instances of folks asserting this position with biblical basis. _Ministry_ belongs to _ministers_. We must look at the word _evangelism_ and see how it's used in Scripture. In Scripture, it belongs to _ministers_. The _ministry_ of Reconicilation belongs to _ministers_. To place that burden upon laypersons is to do more than Scripture does. _Evangelism_ means something more narrow in Scripture than the things which you've said. The problem is taking passages that apply to ministers of the Gospel, i.e. those who are "sent", and making that applicable to every Christian without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That view is unbiblical. The Spirit of God lives in every christian or he isn't a christian. By just the fruits of the Spirit alone a christian will inevitably evangelize it is in his very nature. To not evangelize is to go utterly against christian nature.
Click to expand...


David, I think it is time you stop. You aren't even discussing what is being said and you are just claiming something is wrong without any refutation. You are just saying it is wrong and it is because this is how you think. It is against Christian nature? What kind of defense is this?


----------



## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> How in the world could anyone arrive at that conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> Very simply. Have you read through any of the thread? There've been several instances of folks asserting this position with biblical basis. _Ministry_ belongs to _ministers_. We must look at the word _evangelism_ and see how it's used in Scripture. In Scripture, it belongs to _ministers_. The _ministry_ of Reconicilation belongs to _ministers_. To place that burden upon laypersons is to do more than Scripture does. _Evangelism_ means something more narrow in Scripture than the things which you've said. The problem is taking passages that apply to ministers of the Gospel, i.e. those who are "sent", and making that applicable to every Christian without exception.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> That view is unbiblical. The Spirit of God lives in every christian or he isn't a christian. By just the fruits of the Spirit alone a christian will inevitably evangelize it is in his very nature. To not evangelize is to go utterly against christian nature.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> David, I think it is time you stop. You aren't even discussing what is being said and you are just claiming something is wrong without any refutation. You are just saying it is wrong and it is because this is how you think. It is against Christian nature? What kind of defense is this?
Click to expand...

 
I posted the fruits of the Spirit from Galatians 5 yesterday, among tons of other biblical support. To hide one's lamp under a bushel is against a reborn nature. If we really believe we share the gospel with others.

Note: I also supported you in this thread, however you turned against me. I suppose I'm not in the club.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> You aren't even reading contextually. The above proves it. It wasn't an insult either. It was a criticism of your methodology.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well the way you quoted it showed that you quoted Bolivar. So, I believed it was directed at him. The same way below you quoted yourself and made it look like me....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Boliver responded to the above and you don't even comment or reply. You just move on as though it is water off he back of a duck and it has no effect upon you. This seems to be a common way of yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Note: I use the historical grammatical hermeneutic observing the law of non contradiction to answer the question.
Click to expand...


The quotations were correct in this previous post you were responding to David. The quote function mixed it up when I was taking it from your last post. If you go look at what you responded to my point is made correctly. 
see here.... http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/every-christian-missionary-every-place-missions-field-67689/index2.html#post868273

My point stands.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Joshua said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> That view is unbiblical. The Spirit of God lives in every christian or he isn't a christian. By just the fruits of the Spirit alone a christian will inevitably evangelize it is in his very nature. To not evangelize is to go utterly against christian nature.
> 
> 
> 
> Give me the biblical definition of "evangelist" and please show me in Scripture where it applies to every Christian without exception. In fact, if it did, Scripture would then be disagreeing with itself since it prohibits women from preaching, etc.
Click to expand...

 
There is a difference between preaching and sharing. Preaching is presenting God's testimony and sharing is presenting your own.

HOwever here is the passage that clearly explains what a christians purpose is:

1 Peter 2:9 ESV
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, *that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light*.

We are a holy priesthood and a chosen people for his own possesion SO THAT we may proclaim the excellencies of him. It is our very purpose.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> My point stands.


 
What point. I honestly don't see one.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> That view is unbiblical. The Spirit of God lives in every christian or he isn't a christian. By just the fruits of the Spirit alone a christian will inevitably evangelize it is in his very nature. To not evangelize is to go utterly against christian nature.
> 
> 
> 
> Give me the biblical definition of "evangelist" and please show me in Scripture where it applies to every Christian without exception. In fact, if it did, Scripture would then be disagreeing with itself since it prohibits women from preaching, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between preaching and sharing. Preaching is presenting God's testimony and sharing is presenting your own.
> 
> HOwever here is the passage that clearly explains what a christians purpose is:
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 ESV
> 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, *that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light*.
> 
> We are a holy priesthood and a chosen people for his own possesion SO THAT we may proclaim the excellencies of him. It is our very purpose.
Click to expand...


Point made again. You didn't do what Josh asked you to do. You obfuscate.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Joshua said:


> That's not what I asked for. You can't provide it. _Evaneglism_ is not "sharing."


 
What you asked for is a waste of time. The definition of evangelist is not going to describe every christian nor is it even the correct path to be looking at. We are people who are born og God a chosen people who are supposed to proclaim God's excellencies.

So I decided not to waste time on a dead end and take you directly to the building with the big flashing neon sign.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> My point stands.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What point. I honestly don't see one.
Click to expand...

 
Read this very closely David........... VERY CLOSELY!




PuritanCovenanter said:


> The quotations were correct in this previous post you were responding to David. The quote function mixed it up when I was taking it from your last post. If you go look at what you responded to my point is made correctly.
> see here.... Is every Christian a missionary and every place a missions field?
> 
> My point stands.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> That view is unbiblical. The Spirit of God lives in every christian or he isn't a christian. By just the fruits of the Spirit alone a christian will inevitably evangelize it is in his very nature. To not evangelize is to go utterly against christian nature.
> 
> 
> 
> Give me the biblical definition of "evangelist" and please show me in Scripture where it applies to every Christian without exception. In fact, if it did, Scripture would then be disagreeing with itself since it prohibits women from preaching, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> There is a difference between preaching and sharing. Preaching is presenting God's testimony and sharing is presenting your own.
> 
> HOwever here is the passage that clearly explains what a christians purpose is:
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 ESV
> 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, *that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light*.
> 
> We are a holy priesthood and a chosen people for his own possesion SO THAT we may proclaim the excellencies of him. It is our very purpose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Point made again. You didn't do what Josh asked you to do. You obfuscate.
Click to expand...

 
What Josh asked me to do would lead no where so I fixed it.

---------- Post added at 03:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:50 PM ----------




PuritanCovenanter said:


> Read this very closely David........... VERY CLOSELY!



...ok?


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Joshua said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you asked for is a waste of time.
> 
> 
> 
> Then stop using the term _evangelize_ since you're not willing to inform yourself on its proper use.
Click to expand...

 
Evangelize has a meaning. We are equipped to evengelize because God lives in us.

However we are not all Evangelists. That is someone who does it full time as their primary existance.

I can also type but I'm not a typist...etc

Evangelize is a good word to use and not only an evangelist is called to do it. I am an evangelical christian. My denomination evangelizes. All of us do. We are a denomination of an all saved membership...in theory of course.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Joshua said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evangelize is a good work to use and not only an evangelist is called to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it biblically, then, which is what I originally asked.
Click to expand...


Three places the word is mentioned. Nowhere does it say the laity are not to be evangelists.

2 Timothy 4:5 ESV
As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

Ephesians 4:11-12 ESV
And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints *for the work of ministry*, for building up the body of Christ,

Acts 21:8 ESV
On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him

However this passage includes everyone:

1 Peter 2:9 ESV
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Joshua said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evangelize is a good work to use and not only an evangelist is called to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it biblically, then, which is what I originally asked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three places the word is mentioned. Nowhere does it say the laity are not to be evangelists.
> 
> 2 Timothy 4:5 ESV
> As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
> 
> Ephesians 4:11-12 ESV
> And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints *for the work of m*inistry, for building up the body of Christ,
> 
> Acts 21:8 ESV
> On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him
> 
> However this passage includes everyone:
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 ESV
> 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 doesn't say anything about evangelism.
Click to expand...

 
What do you believe proclaiming his excellencies is? I believe that is evangelism in this world. We are a Holy Priesthood who praises God. Praising God in this age inevitably involves evangelism because the gospel proclamaition is the greates praise possible. What do you think is meant is Ephesians 4 where the saints are being trained for ministry to build up the body of Christ?


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## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evangelize is a good work to use and not only an evangelist is called to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it biblically, then, which is what I originally asked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three places the word is mentioned. Nowhere does it say the laity are not to be evangelists.
> 
> 2 Timothy 4:5 ESV
> As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
> 
> Ephesians 4:11-12 ESV
> And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints *for the work of ministry*, for building up the body of Christ,
> 
> Acts 21:8 ESV
> On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him
> 
> However this passage includes everyone:
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 ESV
> 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
Click to expand...

 

Come one David.... You can't really believe you are exegeting. You are e eisegeting. You are making it say what you want and not what it says. Every passage you are using you are doing this with.


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## cih1355

Pergamum said:


> If yes, why?
> 
> If no, why not?
> 
> 
> If someone you knew held to the view with which you disagree, what is your best response to them?


 
I think you should have asked, "Is every Christian supposed to tell other people about how God saves His people from their sins?".


----------



## au5t1n

cih1355 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> If yes, why?
> 
> If no, why not?
> 
> 
> If someone you knew held to the view with which you disagree, what is your best response to them?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you should have asked, "Is every Christian supposed to tell other people about how God saves His people from their sins?".
Click to expand...

 
But Perg's a missionary, so his question concerns his own office and how the rest of the Body relates to it.


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## PuritanCovenanter

Osage Bluestem said:


> What do you believe proclaiming his excellencies is? I believe that is evangelism in this world. We are a Holy Priesthood who praises God. Praising God in this age inevitably involves evangelism because the gospel proclamaition is the greates praise possible. What do you think is meant is Ephesians 4 where the saints are being trained for ministry to build up the body of Christ?


I believe proclaiming His excellencies has to do with what the text says. Proclaiming His Excellencies! It doesn't matter if you believe it is evangelism or proclaiming the gospel. You are not proving that proclaiming his excellencies is evangelism. You are assuming that. Ephesians 4 is about those who are training the saints for maturity. It is proclaiming that God has ordained some with specific offices and gifts for the task. By your account if we take in your eisegesis we would assume everyone is going to be an apostle also in context.


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## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evangelize is a good work to use and not only an evangelist is called to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it biblically, then, which is what I originally asked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three places the word is mentioned. Nowhere does it say the laity are not to be evangelists.
> 
> 2 Timothy 4:5 ESV
> As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
> 
> Ephesians 4:11-12 ESV
> And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints *for the work of ministry*, for building up the body of Christ,
> 
> Acts 21:8 ESV
> On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him
> 
> However this passage includes everyone:
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 ESV
> 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Come one David.... You can't really believe you are exegeting. You are e eisegeting. You are making it say what you want and not what it says. Every passage you are using you are doing this with.
Click to expand...

 
I'm just reading it. I'm not eisegeting. And why are you now arguing on the other side? 

That is what it says and that is what everyone in the evangelical christian community believes it means.

---------- Post added at 04:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:21 PM ----------




Joshua said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you believe proclaiming his excellencies is?
> 
> 
> 
> Proclaiming God's excellencies.
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think is meant is Ephesians 4 where the saints are being trained for ministry to build up the body of Christ?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> I think that's an instance of poor interpretation. I believe the KJV translates the thought better:
> 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
> ​So, God has given these men for:
> 
> 
> 1. The knitting together of the saints
> 2. The work of the ministry
> 
> 
> 
> and
> 
> 
> 3. The edifying of the body of Christ.
Click to expand...

 
I believe the ESV is a better translation than the KJV, especially in this area.

Proclaiming the excellencies of God never excludes the gospel. Especially not that that is the greatest thing he has ever done.


----------



## au5t1n

The evangelical Christian community is a broken cistern that cannot hold water. 

Josh has already agreed that believers are to be salt and light and be prepared to give an answer, so what is it that you still object to?


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## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> By your account if we take in your eisegesis we would assume everyone is going to be an apostle also in context.


 
Not at all. There are no more apostles because the last one died 1900 years ago. We are all children of God and are all by nature going to share the gospel. It is shameful not to do so.

Matthew 5:15 ESV
15 Nor do people light a lamp and put it under a basket, but on a stand, and it gives light to all in the house.


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## PuritanCovenanter

David.... Include the whole thing. Address the whole post and respond to the whole thing. You are still proving my point on obfuscation. The text is about Church office and its function. Are all called to the offices?


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Dave. I am not the only one seeing you having problems here. Please read Chris Poe's post here and take his advice. Please. 

http://www.puritanboard.com/f46/what-your-millennial-position-67521/index3.html#post868338


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## Pergamum

Is every place a misssion field?

Why, or why not?


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## PuritanCovenanter

Pergamum said:


> Is every place a misssion field?
> 
> Why, or why not?





> (Mat 28:18) And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
> 
> (Mat 28:19) Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
> 
> (Mat 28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.




I guess it depends on how you define all. LOL.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Pergamum said:


> Is every place a misssion field?
> 
> Why, or why not?


 
Yes. Nothing matters but Christ. The world is damned and so is everyone in it except for christians.


----------



## Pergamum

If a misssionary is a "sent-out one" then they must be sent out from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is from a place that already has the Gospel and efforts are made to send-out these ones to places that severely lack the Gospel. 

Thus, there is a prioritization of sending, based upon need and call.


----------



## cih1355

Osage Bluestem said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Evangelize is a good work to use and not only an evangelist is called to do it.
> 
> 
> 
> Prove it biblically, then, which is what I originally asked.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Three places the word is mentioned. Nowhere does it say the laity are not to be evangelists.
> 
> 2 Timothy 4:5 ESV
> As for you, always be sober-minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
> 
> Ephesians 4:11-12 ESV
> And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers,12 to equip the saints *for the work of m*inistry, for building up the body of Christ,
> 
> Acts 21:8 ESV
> On the next day we departed and came to Caesarea, and we entered the house of Philip the evangelist, who was one of the seven, and stayed with him
> 
> However this passage includes everyone:
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 ESV
> 9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 1 Peter 2:9 doesn't say anything about evangelism.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> What do you believe proclaiming his excellencies is? I believe that is evangelism in this world. We are a Holy Priesthood who praises God. Praising God in this age inevitably involves evangelism because the gospel proclamaition is the greates praise possible. What do you think is meant is Ephesians 4 where the saints are being trained for ministry to build up the body of Christ?
Click to expand...

 
Some people do not believe that proclaiming His excellencies should be called "evangelism." They are not denying that we should proclaim His excellencies. They are not against laypeople proclaiming His excellencies. They are just saying that it should not be called "evangelism."


----------



## Osage Bluestem

I'm done here too.


----------



## Notthemama1984

Pergamum said:


> If a misssionary is a "sent-out one" then they must be sent out from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is from a place that already has the Gospel and efforts are made to send-out these ones to places that severely lack the Gospel.
> 
> Thus, there is a prioritization of sending, based upon need and call.



I believe the "somewhere" is the church, but I agree with you that priority should be made based on need.


----------



## au5t1n

Pergamum said:


> If a misssionary is a "sent-out one" then they must be sent out from somewhere, and that "somewhere" is from a place that already has the Gospel and efforts are made to send-out these ones to places that severely lack the Gospel.
> 
> Thus, there is a prioritization of sending, based upon need and call.


 
Yes sir, I think that describes it well.


----------



## J. Dean

If you mean that all Christians are called to the office of evengelist proper, no.

If you mean that all Christians are to bear witness to the truth of Christ and should be always ready to give an answer (I Peter 3:15), then yes.


----------



## Scott1

Lots of good insights here.

It really does depend on how we are using and how we understand the terms.

I'm reminded of the story of Martin Luther who encountered a shoemaker who just become a Christian, who had just absorbed the "solas" truths of the Reformation. The shoemaker had in mind he must become a priest, monk, or something ecclesiastical separated.

"What must I do"? the shoemaker asked Mr. Luther.

"Be a better shoemaker," Mr. Luther replied.

The whole of God's Word is for the whole of life. A very select few men are called to handle the ordinances of corporate worship. A very few men are called to serve in church offices such as Deacon.

But we are all called to both follow and lead in our own ways, according to the Word.


----------



## Pergamum

If not every person is a missionary and not every place a misssion field, then how do we make sure we are fulfilling these roles in our churches? 

How do we know who to send and where to send them?

---------- Post added at 11:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:56 PM ----------

p.s. I just checked John Stott and he says that as the Father sent the Son, the Son sends His People (all of us) into the world. And just as Jesus was made in the form of a servant, all of our tasks is to be the same to the world. Thus, perhaps he and several of my friends take a broader view of the terms missions and misssionaries. Not only teaching is invovled but serving as well.

This brings me to another question: what part do humanitarian works and service play in mission? If we are to model Christ, then Jesus went everywhere teaching and healing at the same time (not separating good works from good words).


----------



## Pergamum

p.s. I just checked John Stott and he says that as the Father sent the Son, the Son sends His People (all of us) into the world. And just as Jesus was made in the form of a servant, all of our tasks is to be the same to the world. Thus, perhaps he and several of my friends take a broader view of the terms missions and misssionaries. Not only teaching is invovled but serving as well.

This brings me to another question: what part do humanitarian works and service play in mission? If we are to model Christ, then Jesus went everywhere teaching and healing at the same time (not separating good works from good words).


----------

