# Is Creatio Ex Nihilo a misnomer?



## John Bunyan (Oct 22, 2012)

I mean, there was never a time in which nothing existed, since God always Is.

I believe this term is more associated with pantheism, but wouldn't "Creatio ex Deo" be a more accurate term?


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## Peairtach (Oct 22, 2012)

> I believe this term is more associated with pantheism, but wouldn't "Creatio ex Deo" be a more accurate term?



That would mean that God created spirits and matter out of Himself, wouldn't it?


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## MW (Oct 22, 2012)

John Bunyan said:


> I mean, there was never a time in which nothing existed, since God always Is.
> 
> I believe this term is more associated with pantheism, but wouldn't "Creatio ex Deo" be a more accurate term?



"Creatio ex Deo" is "creation out of God," that is, His Being, which is a phrase usually associated with the pantheist teaching that creation is an emanation from God.

"Creatio ex nihilo" is the proper term for describing the biblical doctrine of creation. It emphasises that there was nothing in existence at the point when God began to create. There is nothing to suggest pantheism in the phrase.


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## arapahoepark (Oct 22, 2012)

I agree with Rev. Winzer.

Since God's creation is apart from himself unlike pantheism and panentheism, it had a beginning created by him. Though He can dwell in it, it's separate, for God is outside time and space.


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## jwithnell (Oct 23, 2012)

The Westminster divines thought it was important enough to include in the Shorter Catechism #9 "The work of creation is, God's making all things of nothing, by the word of his power ..."


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## John Bunyan (Oct 24, 2012)

armourbearer said:


> It emphasises that there was nothing in existence at the point when God began to create.


There was God.


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## py3ak (Oct 24, 2012)

John of Damascus:



> For He does not belong to the class of existing things: not that He has no existence, but that He is above all existing things, nay even above existence itself.


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## jwithnell (Oct 24, 2012)

We can go no further than "I AM" when considering God's existence. He is outside of time; outside of space as we know it. What that existence would be ranks as one of those bottle-of-wine-at-midnight discussions.


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## Peairtach (Oct 24, 2012)

John Bunyan said:


> armourbearer said:
> 
> 
> > It emphasises that there was nothing in existence at the point when God began to create.
> ...



Yes, but He didn't create out of His own substance (ex deo) but out of nothing (ex nihilo).


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## MW (Oct 24, 2012)

John Bunyan said:


> armourbearer said:
> 
> 
> > It emphasises that there was nothing in existence at the point when God began to create.
> ...



And there is God. And there will be God. And so there can be nothing else. What is the point of going there? It does not prove creation out of God; it simply disproves creation as a logical deduction from the things that we know by nature. Creation requires faith in the word of God to understand it.


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## Peairtach (Oct 24, 2012)

_Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear. (Heb 11:3)_


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