# Is it heresy for J.I. Packer and Tim Keller to now endorse the Alpha Course?



## christiana

Just wondering at the lack of discernment in some contemporary theologians and at who is leading whom and to where? It seems ever more difficult to focus on a strong, orthodox, scripturally sound theologian!


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## Philip

Packer is an Anglican Evangelical so it's little surprise that he would endorse it (given that it's an Evangelical Anglican course) and Keller often runs in those circles, so it's no surprise that he would endorse it.


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## Constantlyreforming

I know the PCUSA that we used to attend used the ALPHA course....what's the heresy involved? I know nothing about it.


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## Philip

I mostly heard it mentioned at the Evangelical CofE I attended in England. It's probably not confessional (maybe charismatic in outlook?) but I'd be very surprised if it was out-and-out heresy.


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## JohnGill

Problems with the Alpha Course:

THE INFLUENCE OF CHRISTIAN MYSTICS MORTON KELSEY AND JOHN WIMBER ON THE ALPHA COURSE : Apprising Ministries

The Alpha Course - Final Answer or Fatal Attraction? 



> “An infectious enthusiasm, entrepreneurial spirit, and a bold plan for growth are all trademarks among Alpha’s top leaders. But not everyone is cheering Alpha onward. Some church leaders have found Alpha teaching too charismatic, too experience-driven, and too negative about traditional churches. Martyn Percy, director of the Lincoln Theological Institute for the Study of Religion and Society of the University of Sheffield, England, has commented about Alpha that it is ‘a package rather than a pilgrimage.’ In a recent essay, he said, ‘It is a confident but narrow expression of Christianity, which stresses the personal experience of the Spirit over the Spirit in the church. ... The Alpha approach *has been faulted for pushing an experience-driven approach to evangelism that sidesteps intellectual difficulties.*” - _Christianity Today_, Feb. 9, 1998, pg. 37.



This part reminds me of IFB churches and Finneyism:



> Chris Hand in his analysis of Alpha concludes the following:*“1. The God of **Alpha** is not the God of the Bible.* ... it does not present us with the God who has revealed Himself in the Bible. ... It simply fails to tell us anything we need to know about God.​*2. The plight of man in **Alpha** is not as serious as in the Bible.* ... _Alpha_ does not use strong terms and leaves us rather unclear about where we stand. As one follows its argument, sin is more to be seen in the way we have ‘messed up our lives.’... For all the gravity of sin, _Alpha_ never allows us to feel too bad about ourselves. It never permits us to see ourselves in God’s sight. That is a big omission.​*3. The Jesus Christ of **Alpha** is not the Jesus Christ of the Bible.* ... despite having part of the course titled ‘_Why did Jesus die?’_, it is unable in the final analysis to answer this question. ...​*4. The love of God in **Alpha** is not the love of God of the Bible.* ... The God of the Bible is love but it is love that is seen in His willingness to save sinners. ... without the context of God’s holiness and absolute perfection, the meaning of love is lost to us. ...​*5. The Holy Spirit of **Alpha** is not the Holy Spirit of the Bible.* ... _Alpha’s_ ‘Spirit’ appears to work in ways that lie _outside_ the confines of Scripture. Whoever it is that people are ‘introduced’ to at the _Alpha_ Weekend, it is not the Holy Spirit. But whoever this mysterious guest is, he is equally at home with the ecstatic gatherings of New Age enthusiasts and non-Christian religions alike.​*6. Conversions in **Alpha** are not like the conversions in the Bible.* ... More often than not it is an emotional experience about the love of God but without _any_ understanding of holiness or the need to be saved from our sins. ... For all its efforts, _Alpha_ does not help us to know God. It does not describe the true and living God for us. It does not diagnose man’s condition accurately enough. ... it is unable to supply us with the ‘good news’.” - _The Christian Research Network Journal_, Spring 1998, pg. 22. The Alpha Course, by Chris Hand​


​
Read the reprint of the Times article here: The Dangers Of The Alpha Course I'd leave a church too if they expected me to snort like a pig and bark like a dog.


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## Supersillymanable

I've had some dealings with the Alpha course. Never come across any heresy. They don't employ necessarily presuppositional apologetics on the course, which to some here is akin to heresy (I kid  ), but those who came up with the Alpha course affirm the Trinity, a substitutionary view of the atonement, the deity of Christ etc. I don't really see where the Heresy is... Churches generally tailor it to how they wish to teach it, as some are reformed, some are not, etc. What was it you thought was heretical?


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## arapahoepark

If you got this from a discernment site, use discernment. Usually, every time something similar to this happens they start labeling good pastors and theologians heretics. They are usually dispensationalists who label the truly reformed heretics and any and everyone who does not agree with them on every point.

That said, I don't know enough about the Alpha course to comment, but I wouldn't call Packer and Keller heretics, especially not seeing the course or even if there is a little questionable content. Keller does endorse a bit of this mystical stuff from what I have heard...there are things I disagree with him on but, he's generally good.
So where ever you got the info, it may be a qualified or unqualified to call it out as wrong, just look it over, and don't be trying to find heresy if there isn't any, doesn't mean don't look hard though.


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## christiana

More commentary on the Alpha Course here:Is the Alpha Course of God, or is it heresy!

Man seems to have great difficulty just staying with the truth of scripture and loves to do his best to put his twist on it!


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## Rich Koster

Supersillymanable said:


> I've had some dealings with the Alpha course. Never come across any heresy. They don't employ necessarily presuppositional apologetics on the course, which to some here is akin to heresy (I kid  ), but those who came up with the Alpha course affirm the Trinity, a substitutionary view of the atonement, the deity of Christ etc. I don't really see where the Heresy is... Churches generally tailor it to how they wish to teach it, as some are reformed, some are not, etc. What was it you thought was heretical?



I guess you missed the session that promotes the holy laughter and the possible effects of being "filled with the spirit". Nicky Gumble has ties to the New Apostolic Reformation that evolved from the Toronto/Kansas City prophets mess.

I also remember a part where Gumble talks about getting hands laid on him and he falls down and the guy laying hands on him yelling more, more, more or something to that effect. 

These were segments of the Alpha video series that was circulating around 2002. The books didn't have this in them, if my recollection is right.


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## PaulMc

As someone who has known people involved in it and the church from where it originated (Holy Trinity Brompton, London), I would not say that it is heretical, but I would say that there is a lot lacking in the Alpha Course and would to a certain extent agree with Chris Hand's critique linked to above.


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## Somerset

In the UK, the Alpha course is popular with Methodists, Baptist Union, URC, CfE, CofS. Evangelical churches tend to use Christianity Explored - which is based on Mark's gospel - though I think they don't accept the last few verses. I did both courses as a new Christian and found the Christianity Explored both sounder and more thought provoking.


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## JohnGill

Rich Koster said:


> Supersillymanable said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've had some dealings with the Alpha course. Never come across any heresy. They don't employ necessarily presuppositional apologetics on the course, which to some here is akin to heresy (I kid  ), but those who came up with the Alpha course affirm the Trinity, a substitutionary view of the atonement, the deity of Christ etc. I don't really see where the Heresy is... Churches generally tailor it to how they wish to teach it, as some are reformed, some are not, etc. What was it you thought was heretical?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you missed the session that promotes the holy laughter and the possible effects of being "filled with the spirit". Nicky Gumble has ties to the New Apostolic Reformation that evolved from the Toronto/Kansas City prophets mess.
> 
> I also remember a part where Gumble talks about getting hands laid on him and he falls down and the guy laying hands on him yelling more, more, more or something to that effect.
> 
> These were segments of the Alpha video series that was circulating around 2002. The books didn't have this in them, if my recollection is right.
Click to expand...


I think everyone should look up all the things that occurred in the Toronto nonsense. Gives new meaning to the AV's rendering of 1 Kings 16:11.

You've also reminded me of this gem: _Todd Bentley Shaka-Laka-Bam Fresh Fire Kick You in the Face Lakeland Revival Study Bible_.


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## Rufus

Bad? Sure. Heresy? That's a strong term, oft-times we begin to condemn all that we disagree with as heretics.


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## KMK

I would not recommend the Alpha course. That said, I think it is harsh and hasty to refer to it as 'heresy'. After all, it is endorsed by Fee, McGrath, Piper, Grudem, and Marshall. Academia | The Alpha Course


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## christiana

Some folks seem to leave the doors of their mind wide open, allowing most anything to flow through and take up residence. Discernment is so important and must be used daily with all we read and ponder; is it sound doctrine, biblical? I'm so often amazed at the variety of odd things people accept as o.k. to read. Do we not know that the thoughts on the page take up residence in our mind and color our beliefs for good or bad. I always want to know if its biblical and if not I have no interest in reading about it. I'm thinking too of some of the 'harmless' fiction that dilutes beliefs and keeps us from being sound and true to scripture. I read an article on FB at noted in the subject line of this thread and just wondered what PBers thought, thats all! Thanks for your thoughts!


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## KMK

JohnGill said:


> I think everyone should look up all the things that occurred in the Toronto nonsense.



Some of the authors may have been influenced by him, but Wimber is not an author of the Alpha course. Also, Wimber cut the Airport Vineyard loose after the Toronto Blessing. I don't see the connection between what happened in Toronto and the Alpha course. Maybe I am missing something.


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## KMK

JohnGill said:


> I think everyone should look up all the things that occurred in the Toronto nonsense.



Some of the authors may have been influenced by him, but Wimber is not an author of the Alpha course. Also, Wimber cut the Airport Vineyard loose after the Toronto Blessing. I don't see the connection between what happened in Toronto and the Alpha course. Maybe I am missing something.


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## Rich Koster

KMK said:


> JohnGill said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think everyone should look up all the things that occurred in the Toronto nonsense.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of the authors may have been influenced by him, but Wimber is not an author of the Alpha course. Also, Wimber cut the Airport Vineyard loose after the Toronto Blessing. I don't see the connection between what happened in Toronto and the Alpha course. Maybe I am missing something.
Click to expand...


The link is the person who "laid hands" on Gumble, and supposedly imparted a gift of the Holy Spirit to him. I don't have a copy of the Alpha videos, or I'd share which volume and the time stamp on it where it was discussed. I'm not being a wise guy here, I would really like people to go right to the part that I take issue with and see for themselves. I'll search You Tube and see if I can find it.


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## KMK

Rich Koster said:


> The link is the person who "laid hands" on Gumble, and supposedly imparted a gift of the Holy Spirit to him.



Does Gumble claim that the Toronto Blessing is alive and well in the Alpha course through the laying on of hands of Wimber? Wimber did not support what happened in Toronto.

Does the Alpha course claim to be in the spirit of Toronto? I guess I will have to do more research.


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## Rich Koster

KMK said:


> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is the person who "laid hands" on Gumble, and supposedly imparted a gift of the Holy Spirit to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Gumble claim that the Toronto Blessing is alive and well in the Alpha course through the laying on of hands of Wimber? Wimber did not support what happened in Toronto.
> 
> 
> Does the Alpha course claim to be in the spirit of Toronto? I guess I will have to do more research.
Click to expand...


I don't recall a quote of HT Brompton being connected with Toronto. However I do recall him speaking about Wimber &/or his group. I remember him talking about his personal experience of being filled. The You Tube videos seem different from the version I saw (VHS around 2002). I'm still searching for the session where he talks about it. Some of the supposed manifestations are talked about in the Holy Ghost weekend video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxfxaV59rBo


Paul Cain might have been the one who laid hands on Gumble. Cain was part of the KC prophets. Both Cain & Wimiber are mentioned in this open questioning to the Alpha leaders. The tapes I watched didn't show this event, Gumble described it in one of the sessions. It may be the 1990 Cain appearance, in Brompton, mentioned in item #10 http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/AlphaBrochure.pdf


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## KMK

Rich Koster said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
> 
> The link is the person who "laid hands" on Gumble, and supposedly imparted a gift of the Holy Spirit to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Gumble claim that the Toronto Blessing is alive and well in the Alpha course through the laying on of hands of Wimber? Wimber did not support what happened in Toronto.
> 
> Does the Alpha course claim to be in the spirit of Toronto? I guess I will have to do more research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't recall a quote of being connected with Toronto. However I do recall him speaking about Wimber &/or his group. I remember him talking about his personal experience of being filled. The You Tube videos seem different from the version I saw. I'm still searching for the session where he talks about it. Some of the supposed manifestations are talked about in the Holy Ghost weekend video HOW CAN I BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT? | HTB ALPHA WEEKEND TALK 3 - YouTube
Click to expand...


It sounds very 'Third Wavish', hence the endorsements by Grudem and Piper. Whether or not it is 'heresy' is for a church council to decide.


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## Rich Koster

KMK said:


> Rich Koster said:
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> KMK said:
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> 
> 
> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
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> The link is the person who "laid hands" on Gumble, and supposedly imparted a gift of the Holy Spirit to him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does Gumble claim that the Toronto Blessing is alive and well in the Alpha course through the laying on of hands of Wimber? Wimber did not support what happened in Toronto.
> 
> Does the Alpha course claim to be in the spirit of Toronto? I guess I will have to do more research.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't recall a quote of being connected with Toronto. However I do recall him speaking about Wimber &/or his group. I remember him talking about his personal experience of being filled. The You Tube videos seem different from the version I saw. I'm still searching for the session where he talks about it. Some of the supposed manifestations are talked about in the Holy Ghost weekend video HOW CAN I BE FILLED WITH THE HOLY SPIRIT? | HTB ALPHA WEEKEND TALK 3 - YouTube
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It sounds very 'Third Wavish', hence the endorsements by Grudem and Piper. Whether or not it is 'heresy' is for a church council to decide.
Click to expand...


My main objection is the suggested manifestations and sharing of experiences. It seems there is a common thread that runs through all 3rd wave stuff. The coiner of that phrase (3rd wave) is C. Peter Wagner, former presiding apostle of the NAR. That is the warning bell I'm ringing. Errors about the Holy Spirit should be defined and addressed officially, as you stated.


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## Rich Koster

I found this quote, with the "more" emphasis that I remember, here: If you do the Alpha Course, it will surely be the Omege of you.


"Session 12 White Alpha training manual ppS8-62/Video V Talk 13

During this talk Nicky Gumbel tells Alpha participants of the visit by John Wimber to HTB in 1982 to demonstrate God’s power to heal. He says:

“John Wimber then said ‘We’ve had words of knowledge’ these are supernatural revelations, things that they couldn’t have known otherwise about the conditions of people in the room… specific details were given, accurately describing the conditions… .as the list was responded to, the level of faith in the room was rising.”

Gumbel says that he still felt “cynical and hostile” until the following evening when he was prayed for:

“So they prayed for the Spirit to come….I felt something like 10,000 volts going through my body….The American had a fairly limited prayer. He just said ‘more power’….it was the only thing he ever prayed. I can’t remember him ever praying anything else… Now we’ve seen many kinds of these manifestations of the Spirit on the weekends… these manifestations… and the physical healings themselves are not the important thing… .the fruit of the Spirit… these are the things that matter, the fruit that comes from these experiences. So we began to realise that God heals miraculously….” [Emphasis added - Important See article: The Biblical Holy Spirit vs.The False Unholy Spirit of Fire]

Nicky Gumbel gives no indication here that he or anyone else attending that meeting tested the spirits to ensure that everything came from the Holy Spirit. "


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## Jack K

I'm not a big fan of the Alpha Course. I think it's kind of wishy-washy on sin and holiness, and too mystical regarding the Spirit. Once when my church was thinking about getting behind it I recommended we use something better. But I wouldn't label it heresy. And I suspect it's helpful to some people.

Also, where does the notion that Packer and Keller "endorse" it come from? Those two guys speak kindly of many programs, out of charity, and they recommend certain resources for certain people as we all do. But neither action is an all-out endorsement. Before we attribute "endorsement" to either of them, I think we need a verified quote where they say something like, "I endorse the Alpha Course." I saw quotes attributed to them on one of those discernment sites, and the Alpha Course site is trying to make them look like big fans, but the Keller quote in particular was hardly a full-fledged endorsement. These guys are big names. Ministries try to use them and bloggers try to discredit them all the time.


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## KMK

Jack K said:


> Also, where does the notion that Packer and Keller "endorse" it come from?



Sorry, in post 14 I typed 'Packer' instead of 'Piper'. I edited the mistake.


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## Supersillymanable

Nicky Gumbel's experiences doesn't condemn the whole Alpha Course though. Not all church congregations run the sessions on the Holy Spirit and I've never heard of such teachings on "holy laughter" etc, so that may be something I've simply not been exposed to (thankfully). I do definitely agree though, the Course is generally (unless you modify it a decent amount), weak on sin and our guilt before God. This is probably why it has come into widespread usage, those who are less strong theologically (i.e wimping out on what the Bible actually says), will be happy and able to use it...


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## KaphLamedh

Charismatic stuff.


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## yeutter

Worse then Charismatic stuff. The alpha course is weak on the atonement. It is weaker still on the necessity of the atonement.


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## crimsonleaf

One of the main weaknesses of the Alpha course is its insistence that leaders do not answer questions, but encourage debate. My son was a frustrated Alpha leader and saw people talk themselves into theological circles and was forbidden to step in and guide. He tells me that many left each evening having constructed their own views centred around the "sanitised for the people" version of the faith espoused by the course itself. It is a fundamental of Alpha that no denominational influence is shown, which leaves people with the view that God is good, salvation is obtained by a single prayer of acceptance, and sin is something we should avoid. Simplistic and dangerous if viewed in isolation, and allowing of several erroneous conclusions.


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## KMK

crimsonleaf said:


> One of the main weaknesses of the Alpha course is its insistence that leaders do not answer questions,



That is worse than anything. I wonder if those who endorse it are aware of this element?


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## Eoghan

*Alpha Course - Marriage Course*

My wife and I attended the marriage course spawned by Alpha. As I always do I took notes and researched some of the people quoted. One of them was the leader of the British Humanist Society. 

You have heard of full cream milk? semi-skimmed milk? and then skimmed milk? Well at some point it ceases to become milk (skimmed milk is almost indistinguishable from water in my opinion). Well the Alpha Marriage course is the skimmed milk!

We had a "convert" through the Alpha course who was openly living in sin with a woman and could not figure out why some in the church objected. It appears that Alpha failed to teach basic morality either as a failing or something that was binding on believers. There is a great deal of Bible-lite going around that tries to pass itself off for the real thing. I can say from experience that the Marriage Course is one, in feedback I suggested that more Biblical examples were needed to beef up the Christian input. I was told that the Bible was not an instruction manual to live by. It was the beginning of a parting of the ways.

I suspect Alpha is also Bible-lite.


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