# Why Would an Apostate Seminary Want to Call Itself "Reformed"?



## Marrow Man (Jul 23, 2009)

The latest issue of _Mosaic_ (the magazine of Louisville Presbyterian Theological Seminary) came in the mail today. I always flip through it to see if something outright heretical jumps out at me. No, they do a good job of disguising apostasy well enough so as not to deflect old-school donors, but inserting enough stories about female pastors and "social justice" to keep the amen corner happy. That, and including a snippet about having John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and Brian McLaren all come and speak last fall.

What disturbs me, however, is that the issue repeatedly referred to the seminary as if it continued to stand in the Reformed tradition. Does this happen in other liberal seminaries? There was even a story about Calvin's 500th birthday and the ways they were celebrating it. They did mention, however, a book or article that a guest speaker for a Calvin event wrote wherein it was mentioned that because of Karl Barth now we can all read Calvin correctly.

There was, however, one "story" I couldn't let pass. LPTS now has trading cards. I kid you not. Here is the blurb:



> Celebrate Louisville Seminary's professors, who are profoundly shaping whole generations of pastors, counselors, chaplains, teachers, and public leaders for continuing the redemptive ministry of Jesus Christ in the world.
> 
> Email us with your request for our limited edition 2008 LPTS Faculty packaged set, complete with individual stats and records. [Note: from the picture supplied, this is simply stuff like degrees and publications]
> 
> ...


If anyone orders a set, you have to share photos here on the PB!


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## N. Eshelman (Jul 23, 2009)

Liberalism is 100+ years old now in mainline Reformed and Presbyterian churches (Ever read North's Crossed Fingers: How the Liberals Won the Presbyterian Church?). Since there is 100 years under their belt, sadly, they are a part of the Reformed tradition.... just not the good parts of the tradition!


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## AltogetherLovely (Jul 23, 2009)

> That, and including a snippet about having John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and Brian McLaren all come and speak last fall.



Good grief, what a trio! How did I miss it?


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## Marrow Man (Jul 23, 2009)

AltogetherLovely said:


> > That, and including a snippet about having John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and Brian McLaren all come and speak last fall.
> 
> 
> 
> Good grief, what a trio! How did I miss it?



I am strongly resisting the urge to make a "Three Stooges" comment. 

Actually, Crossan is very much a nice guy (heard him in a debate once). I know very little about Borg. McLaren strikes me as an "I'm always right kind of guy", but I could be wrong.

We should be glad, though, because I hear that if the fourth horseman had shown up, the world would have come to an end...


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## toddpedlar (Jul 23, 2009)

Marrow Man said:


> AltogetherLovely said:
> 
> 
> > > That, and including a snippet about having John Dominic Crossan, Marcus Borg, and Brian McLaren all come and speak last fall.
> ...



And now you've got me remembering an old thread....

http://www.puritanboard.com/f103/what-do-you-think-when-you-hear-anglican-primates-25227/


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## SolaScriptura (Jul 23, 2009)

I think that schools like Louisville Presbyterian still harken to the Reformation not because of a commitment to the doctrine of the Reformation, but because of what the Reformation represents in broader strokes: a throwing off of a repressive tradition in favor of the truths discovered at the time, a time of liberation. Perhaps that's why.

Incidentally, something inside me thinks that Barth himself wouldn't be caught dead in a place as apostate as Louisville Presbyterian Theological Seminary.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 23, 2009)

Why Would an Apostate Seminary Want to Call Itself "Reformed"?

They _think_ that they _are_ because their identity is linked to history, not where they are at now. Kind of like the RCC linking its orthodoxy to Peter.......


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jul 23, 2009)

Ok time to defend my alma mater a little bit (not much, but a little)

Pittsburgh Theological Seminary (which unlike LPTS does not promote Crossan & the Jesus Quest, Liberation Theology, Feminist Theology, or other apostate doctrines) stands firmly in the Brunner/Barthian tradition and is the only seminary actively working against homosexual ordination. My mainline Presbyterian friends at PTS, who are evangelical in the broad sense, and I would often mock and speak ill towards Union (both NY and VA), Columbia, Austin, San Fran, Dubuque, LPTS, and McCormick (in Chicago). There is a good size difference between my PTS/Princeton (to a lesser extent) as far as mainline PC(USA) seminaries go in comparison to the former list (sorry Toby). They all certainly fall in the Apostate list as far as seminaries go. The two PTS's are "reformed" in the sense Barth, Brunner, Torrance, and Berkouwer (all 4 I read at PTS) are taught there with pride. Things like the Virgin Birth and substitutionary atonement are still taught and defended there. Now of course in comparison to any of the seminaries most of y'all attended they are not "reformed" in that sense. However especially at my PTS you are going to read Thomas Oden for Pastoral Care and a lot in the Church Fathers for all your "bible" and "theology" classes, excepting the OT Bible classes of course, those are steeped in anti-biblical Higher Critical theory. 

Any questions?


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## Marrow Man (Jul 23, 2009)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Things like the Virgin Birth and substitutionary atonement are still taught and defended there.



 That's really surprising, and good to know!



> Any questions?



Sounds like I'm guilty of a bit of this: 

Do they stir pots like that in the backwoods of WV?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jul 23, 2009)

Not if the revenuer man is coming around. 

-----Added 7/23/2009 at 05:50:43 EST-----

By the way it is worth noting that my PTS used to be a pretty liberal place but in the last 15 or so years it has self-consciously moved itself to the "right" in its circles. To the point now where they are actually denying hardcore leftists admission. Now like I said they are certainly not "reformed" in any real sense that y'all would recognize however they are self-consciously adopting what some of my Professors called a "Paleo-Orthodox" theology. 

Here is a good synopsis of what Paleo-Orthodoxy is to some extent. Paleo-orthodoxy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Marrow Man (Jul 23, 2009)

I should have said this:



> Any questions?


If Pittsburgh Seminary ain't got faculty trading cards, then we ain't got nothing to say.


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## Reformed Thomist (Jul 23, 2009)

Most liberal/mainline Presbyterian seminaries pay lip-service to 'the Reformed tradition'. Technically, they are not lying in describing themselves such -- liberal Barthianism _is_ a 'wing' of the Reformed tradition, however lamentable the fact, and they see it as a _progression_ in Reformed thought -- but they may thereby mislead some prospective students who expect to receive a more traditional, 'conservative' Reformed education.


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## Sven (Jul 23, 2009)

They think they're "Reformed" because a) the Modern theologians like Schleiermacher thought that Christianity had to change with the times, yet retain some of its historical roots; therefore, a seminary that has historical ties to the Reformed Churches but has kept up with the changing times can be Reformed and is even the true heir of this heritage, and b) because they think that Karl Barth had the correct understanding of Calvin's theology, and therefore are true to the Reformed heritage he began, but was lost to the Scholastic Calvinists.


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