# Sermon Length?



## RunCALEB (Apr 22, 2014)

I was just curious to see what you all had to say regarding sermon length? There were different types of sermons given in the NT, evangelistic, farewells, to the church, etc. but should the length of our sermons today reflect the length of theirs then? Is this important? Why do we do things the way we do in this area?


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## Logan (Apr 22, 2014)

The only thing I have to say is that I recently finished a sermon by Rutherford that took me three hours to read aloud. That's _too_ long


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## yeutter (Apr 22, 2014)

Logan said:


> The only thing I have to say is that I recently finished a sermon by Rutherford that took me three hours to read aloud. That's _too_ long



Agreed, three hours is too long. Pastors need to preach long enough to adequately explain the text, its doctrinal significance and its application to the believer. That may take over an hour.


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## Cymro (Apr 22, 2014)

Dr Lloyd Jones held that 45 mins was sufficient, but he added that if the 'hwyl' ( wind in the sails)
was on the preacher, then he must not curtail the Spirit but continue. The Rev Daniel Rowlands (I
refrain from boasting his name), only preached for 30mins, yet thousands received new life through 
him being a polished shaft in the hand of God. It is recorded that in that 30mins he would uncork 
five vials of heavenly perfume, each one stronger than the last, so that the congregation would be
completely overcome. 
The length is immaterial if there is content and the Spirit's blessing. Spirit and truth brethren are 
the dictators.


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## Unoriginalname (Apr 22, 2014)

I know this comes up a lot, but there can be a significant difference in how much content is preached in the same time frame between two men. My pastor from Philly was a fast talking New Yorker so his 35 minute sermon could cover more than someone who spoke at a slower pace.


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## KMK (Apr 22, 2014)

It's like asking how many courses should be served at a feast. If the food is of high quality, well prepared, and pleasantly presented then keep it coming!


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## RunCALEB (Apr 22, 2014)

So it sounds like maybe the question to ask is what do you base the sermon around? As in, do you decide how big a portion of text you can cover in a 45 minute slot and go with that, or decide that you need to cover this bit of verses together and take whatever time is necessary? Almost more of a question as to how we approach preaching and do sermon preparation? Maybe this even changes depending on setting etc. as well?


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## Stephen L Smith (Apr 22, 2014)

Cymro said:


> The length is immaterial if there is content and the Spirit's blessing. Spirit and truth brethren are
> the dictators.


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## clark thompson (Apr 23, 2014)

I try not to go over 30 min this I normally teach for about 20 min.


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## Kevin (Apr 23, 2014)

Our total service time is 65-70 min. That allows for 25-30 min sermon, not including the reading of the text. And still gives enough time to celebrate Communion.


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## LeeD (Apr 23, 2014)

I aim to stay under the 45 minute mark and average around 40 minutes.


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## Romans922 (Apr 23, 2014)

Longer than 30. Most of the worship service should be in the Word as it is that where Jesus speaks to us.


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## whirlingmerc (Apr 23, 2014)

However long the sermon, I do like to have the sermon broken up by a song or communion served, then the preacher coming back to drive in the application or emphasize a point which I think should be short


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## Jack K (Apr 23, 2014)

At some point, the more you say the less you communicate. Where that point is will depend on the preacher's ability to hold interest and the amount of _quality_ message material he's prepared. I know few who can go more than an hour without making the sermon worse. Most do well to stop in the 30-45 minute range.


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## reaganmarsh (Apr 23, 2014)

I generally aim for 30-35 mins. Sometimes I hit 40 but my effectiveness generally goes downhill from there. 

That being said, once I preached an hour. My wife said it was great. And so did the congregation. It was unplanned; just had a lot of material and the Spirit's assistance. So I tried again a while later for an hour. It was awful and I've never done it again!


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## Edward (Apr 23, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> Most of the worship service should be in the Word as it is that where Jesus speaks to us.



We shouldn't ignore the guidance of the Book of Church Order 50-4

"always having regard to the time, that neither reading, singing, praying, preaching, nor any other ordinance, be disproportionate the one to the other"


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 24, 2014)

Logan said:


> The only thing I have to say is that I recently finished a sermon by Rutherford that took me three hours to read aloud. That's _too_ long



If it was one of the sermons in the collection which Naphtali Press recently published, then it was worth every second. 

Modern sermons, however, should probably be no longer than 30 minutes (though some allowance needs to be made for how quickly the minister talks). Less is often more, and it is actually harder to speak for a shorter length of time.


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## Tirian (Apr 24, 2014)

There are often times our ministers preach that I think - no, keep going, keep going!!! Perhaps that's not a bad thing either  They average around 50 minutes including the sermon reading at the start (I know this because I process the video of the sermons!!)


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## ProtestantBankie (Apr 24, 2014)

The appetite grows with eating.

3 years ago, anything longer than 40 minutes was a drag. Now It's anything longer than an hour!

The most important hours of my week are the ones I spend listening to sermons.


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## Bill The Baptist (Apr 24, 2014)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Modern sermons, however, should probably be no longer than 30 minutes (though some allowance needs to be made for how quickly the minister talks).



Here in the Southern U.S., there are some preachers who can stretch 30 minutes of material into almost an hour just because they speak so slowly and deliberately.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 24, 2014)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Reformed Covenanter said:
> 
> 
> > Modern sermons, however, should probably be no longer than 30 minutes (though some allowance needs to be made for how quickly the minister talks).
> ...



That was who I had in mind.


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## Logan (Apr 24, 2014)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> If it was one of the sermons in the collection which Naphtali Press recently published, then it was worth every second.



The one I am referring to was the first of Rutherford's sermons in the "Sermons Preached Before the English Houses of Parliament by the Scottish Commissioners" volume. Rutherford chose for his text Daniel 6:25, 26 I believe, 


> Then king Darius wrote unto all people, nations, and languages, that dwell in all the earth; Peace be multiplied unto you. I make a decree, That in every dominion of my kingdom men tremble and fear before the God of Daniel: for he is the living God, and stedfast for ever, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed, and his dominion shall be even unto the end.



Rutherford then proceeded to cover Christ's kingdom, election, antinomianism, the second coming, duties of magistrates, God's succoring his people, the Roman Catholic persecution, God's fatherhood, Christ's sufferings, the eternality of the godhead, etc. etc. (with applications for all of course!).

I'm certainly not saying it wasn't good, but as my wife said, it almost seemed like Rutherford was so excited at the opportunity to preach in front of Parliament that he preached on every topic he could think of (there didn't seem to be any main points). It was an exhaustive look at anything one might even be reminded of when looking at this passage. Part of me wonders if it was greatly expanded when it was printed. We also wondered if perhaps this was something preached around lunch time and people just kind of came and went so he didn't feel it out of place to preach on many different topics.

We definitely broke it up over multiple sittings. On the other hand, we both really enjoyed Gillespie, who was much more to-the-point, if not quite as long.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 24, 2014)

Logan said:


> The one I am referring to was the first of Rutherford's sermons in the "Sermons Preached Before the English Houses of Parliament by the Scottish Commissioners" volume. Rutherford chose for his text Daniel 6:25, 26 I believe,



Yes, I suspected that was the one you were reading. I _really_ loved it.


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## Alan D. Strange (Apr 24, 2014)

If one is exhaustive in his exposition, he should never be exhausting. It's preferable to leave the people still hungering for the Word: better to want what they don't have than to have what they don't want. 

I can go forever when I am preaching, but I find a diminishing return generally after 30 minutes. It's more effective and edifying if I preach around that mark. 

Peace,
Alan


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## Unoriginalname (Apr 24, 2014)

I am curious how long those who preach in a language other than English tend to preach for since different languages can have differences in the average words per minute spoken. (I hope that makes sense)


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## Bill The Baptist (Apr 25, 2014)

Unoriginalname said:


> I am curious how long those who preach in a language other than English tend to preach for since different languages can have differences in the average words per minute spoken. (I hope that makes sense)



Many preachers here in southern Utah will venture down into the Navajo reservation and preach to the Navajos via a translator. Typically a 30 minute sermon will stretch into 2 hours because it takes so long to translate English into Navajo due to the fact that the Navajo language is not really comprised of specific words, but rather vague concepts.


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## reformedminister (Apr 25, 2014)

RunCALEB said:


> I was just curious to see what you all had to say regarding sermon length? There were different types of sermons given in the NT, evangelistic, farewells, to the church, etc. but should the length of our sermons today reflect the length of theirs then? Is this important? Why do we do things the way we do in this area?



I do not think we have any way of knowing exactly how long the sermons were in the New Testament nor should we be concerned since it is not mandated in Scripture. Through the centuries sermon length has varied, the Puritan divines being lengthy but inspirational. I try to keep our worship services about an hour long, so I shoot for about 25-30 minutes for the preaching.


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## Jack K (Apr 25, 2014)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Unoriginalname said:
> 
> 
> > I am curious how long those who preach in a language other than English tend to preach for since different languages can have differences in the average words per minute spoken. (I hope that makes sense)
> ...



Indeed, most Navajo-language sermons I've heard do tend to run long. I think much of that has to do with the culture. It's a particularly non-rushed culture, built on oral transmission of ideas and on listening patiently to others, especially among the older generation that's still most comfortable with the Navajo language. A 30-minute sermon in Navajo would feel short even if no translation were involved. One might be in a meeting where people share prayer requests and have a request run nearly that long. That's no exaggeration.

Culture matters a lot when is comes to optimal sermon length.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Apr 25, 2014)

There are a great many considerations to take into consideration of adequately giving an answer to this.

What if the preacher is a poor preacher? He might be full of heart and not of ability.
What if he doesn't speak well?
What if he is more concerned about getting the information out of his head in a fitting manner instead of into the congregation's head?
Etc.

I would tend to blanket answer the question with "As long as it takes," but in the hand of a skilled workman.
Jesus preached on the parable of the prodigal son. How long was that? Maybe a few minutes.
Paul preached so long Eutychus fell asleep and then out of the window. (Acts 20:9-12). How long was that? Maybe a few hours. Who wouldn't want to hear either Paul or Jesus preach?

Some might preach 20 minutes. That could be a problem with the preacher adequately being able to hold the attention of the congregation, or that he is a poor exegete and can't handle the word well.
It also might be a conditioning problem and something that over a period of years, the congregation would need to get used to. Maybe lengthen the sermon by a minute a month until they are used to an adequate time.

The preacher might be long winded and run an hour, but its unnecessary. That's poor preparation, and goes back to discernment and ability.

For the novelty of it, and the spiritual edification, I suggest taking two people in church history (let's say Calvin and Edwards) and read 10 of their sermons aloud.
See what their average time is.

Keep in mind preachers are battling the You Tube generation. Quick fast and just a few minutes.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Apr 25, 2014)

A Word from Spurgeon:



> "Brethren, weigh your sermons. Do not retail them by the yard, but deal them out by the pound. Set no store by the quantity of words which you utter, but strive to be esteemed for the quality of your matter. It is foolish to be lavish in words and niggardly in truth." -- _Lectures to My Students,_ p. 77.
> 
> "We ought seldom to go much beyond that--forty minutes, or say, three-quarters of an hour. If a fellow cannot say all he has to say in that time, when will he say it?... Brevity is a virtue which is within the reach of all of us; do not let us lose the opportunity of gaining the credit which it brings. If you ask me how I may shorten my sermons, I should say, _study them better_. Spend more time in the study that you may need less in the pulpit. We are generally longest when we have least to say.A Man with a great deal of well-prepared matter will probably not exceed forty minutes. When he has less to say he will go on for fifty minutes. And when he has absolutely nothing he will need an hour to say it in. Attend in these minor things and it will help to retain [the people's] attention." -- _Lectures to My Students,_ pp. 155, 156


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## RunCALEB (Apr 25, 2014)

Thanks for all the input guys, very good!! I especially loved the two quotes from Lectures to My Students!


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## Edward (Apr 25, 2014)

reformedminister said:


> I try to keep our worship services about an hour long, so I shoot for about 25-30 minutes for the preaching.



That's a key point. I visited a church last winter where the sermon ran over 40 minutes. But the service itself was close to two hours, so the sermon did not take up a disproportionate portion of the time. (And there was another, shorter, exegesis of another passage).


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## Pilgrim Standard (Apr 28, 2014)

I agree with as long as it takes. However, I seem to gleen the most from 45 mins to an hr. length sermon. I usually don't want the sermon to end at 30 mins... on the edge of my seat as it were. But, I leave that in the hands of the session.


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## nick (Apr 28, 2014)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> I would tend to blanket answer the question with "As long as it takes," but in the hand of a skilled workman.
> Jesus preached on the parable of the prodigal son. How long was that? Maybe a few minutes.
> Paul preached so long Eutychus fell asleep and then out of the window. (Acts 20:9-12). How long was that? Maybe a few hours. Who wouldn't want to hear either Paul or Jesus preach?



This is a valid point.

There might also be something to the "southern" thing, because I've lived in Florida and Texas and both places sermons lasted at least 40 minutes. 

When I was at The Village Church sermons were 45-60. When I went to a PCA church sermons were 35-45. At my current church we have two services where sermons go about 55 to just over an hour, paired with an OT & NT reading that are 15-20 each, and the readings usually have as much meat as a typical sermon I've heard elsewhere.


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