# Arminianism and their inconsistencies



## tyndale (Nov 11, 2013)

I actually attend a non Reformed church currently (was in the PCA for many years) and feel that the Lord wants me to be there as I have been able to preach the Gospel (I pray clearly) in some Bible studies that I've been leading, and the senior pastor knows that I am Reformed and we have mutual respect for each other, and he has even picked my brain at times for my theological thoughts. 

Interestingly when Chuck Smith died, my current pastor mentioned him (and I had very little knowledge of the Calvary Chapel until about 2 weeks ago), and didn't realize how anti-Reformed the CC is, and am glad to have seen a Reformed CC pastor's testimony here on this forum in another post. 

So since then, I've been thinking A LOT about what the arguments are in terms of how the Arminian system is *inconsistent* within itself (and it most definitely is), and wanted your thoughts and not to bash that tradition either. What I have found is:

1. They would say that the "Calvinist God" is responsible for evil if we did not have free will, but the opposite argument if the Arminian God *foresaw* it from the corridors of time, and did NOTHING to stop it (ie: therefore could have prevented it but did not), then that same argument can be used against them.

2. Why would an Arminian actually pray for God to change someone's heart, since that is in clear violation of that person's will to choose to NOT choose Him? This was Phil Johnson's argument from his blog as to one of the difficult questions that helped him to leave that system, because the answer he got from his teacher was that (if Arminianism is consistent) then it was wrong then to pray for someone's heart to be changed. 

3. If an Arminian says that he agrees that it is the Father's will to save a person, and the Son is then sent to save that person, BUT the Holy Spirit *cannot* save because of the resistance of man, then you have disunity AND disharmony within the Godhead itself, that the Triune God cannot accomplish something that TWO of them want to do, but the OTHER cannot. I wonder if they even ever think about that and what that says about the Almighty and His character? 

As we know and sadly, Arminianism in full bloom (and consistent within itself if it has a real systematic theology) would be open theism, and I'm glad that even folks in that tradition, are fighting it out and at least attempting to preserve conservative Evangelicalism from the Greg Boyd/Clark Pinnock disciples.

Would appreciate any further thoughts.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 11, 2013)

Why did you leave the PCA for an Arminian church?


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## Andres (Nov 11, 2013)

tyndale said:


> 3. If an Arminian says that he agrees that it is the Father's will to save a person, and the Son is then sent to save that person, BUT the Holy Spirit cannot save because of the resistance of man, then you have disunity AND disharmony within the Godhead itself, that the Triune God cannot accomplish something that TWO of them want to do, but the OTHER cannot. I wonder if they even ever think about that and what that says about the Almighty and His character?



If God wants to save a man, but the man supposedly resists God and rejects Him, then this would make the man god by default.


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## Gforce9 (Nov 11, 2013)

tyndale said:


> 3. If an Arminian says that he agrees that it is the Father's will to save a person, and the Son is then sent to save that person, BUT the Holy Spirit *cannot* save because of the resistance of man, then you have disunity AND disharmony within the Godhead itself, that the Triune God cannot accomplish something that TWO of them want to do, but the OTHER cannot. I wonder if they even ever think about that and what that says about the Almighty and His character?
> 
> As we know and sadly, Arminianism in full bloom (and consistent within itself if it has a real systematic theology) would be open theism, and I'm glad that even folks in that tradition, are fighting it out and at least attempting to preserve conservative Evangelicalism from the Greg Boyd/Clark Pinnock disciples.
> 
> Would appreciate any further thoughts.



I believe this is why there is a strong presence of deMolina's _Middle Knowledge_ in Arminianism. If God's knowledge is absolutely perfect, inerrant, & infallible, then you must come to grips with a God who ordains all things.....or change His character to fit your rejection of Him....


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## tyndale (Nov 11, 2013)

arap said:


> Why did you leave the PCA for an Arminian church?



I moved from my old residence. The church I am a part of now is close by my home and does preach the Gospel and would not label it Arminian per se as they have staff that are supportive of the doctrines of Grace. I have come to realize ( humbly I think), that ministry is ultimately about people and the communication of His truth. 

It is interesting that some folks have come up to me and asked point blank if I was Reformed, and were surprised that I could (with God's grace), proclaim the Gospel forcefully. In that one instance, I think the Lord used that to change someone's mind that all Calvinists are cultists. 

God has sheep here as well, and I need to learn to put aside the big debates in order to proclaim "repent and believe the Gospel", without compromising my own convictions.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Nov 12, 2013)

tyndale said:


> Would appreciate any further thoughts.



Some thoughts worth considering:

View attachment Arminianism Exposed.pdf


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## tyndale (Nov 12, 2013)

it is a very good read so far...thanks for this! i was astonished about the imputation vs impartation argument to be honest....


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## GloriousBoaz (Nov 13, 2013)

Good stuff, there is tons to consider when doing an internal critique of Arminianism, there are inconsistencies at every turn. Here is one I have been contemplating lately. If Arminians say that its not works because God does 99% and you just do 1% by your exercising of faith. Well if you zoom in a bit you will notice that percentage is irrelevant because your decision (as an Arminian) makes 100% of the difference, ergo, your 1% choice determines 100% whether you are saved or not. Man centered.


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## One Little Nail (Nov 16, 2013)

Thought I'd post another book & article Link:

Monergism :: Arminianism

Calvinism and evangelical Arminianism : compared as to election, reprobation, justification, and related doctrines (1890)
https://archive.org/details/calvinismevangel00gira

I have some Indy Fundy friends here in Sydney who hold to a type of 4 Point Arminianism (well they don't think of themselves as Arminians anyway) 
what Amyraldianism is to Calvinism 4 Point Indy Fundy Semi-Pelagianism is to Arminianism, 

where they hold to the first 4 Points of Arminianism but dismiss that a True Believer could ever Apostatize or Fall away from the Faith holding to a position of Eternal Security or Once Saved always Saved if you will. 
Indy Fundy = Independent Baptist Fundamentalist.

then again some of these Indy Fundy Types seem to have such a weak view of the depravity of Man's Nature 
due to the Fall that they seem to hold to a Pelagian view of the Will, sorry make that 3 1/2 Point Arminianism.

really at the end of the day it is basically about Monergism or Synergism, which will you choose?


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## Wynteriii (Nov 22, 2013)

Is it true the Arminianism was considered heretical?

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## Mushroom (Nov 23, 2013)

I had almost succeeded in erasing Pinnock's name from my memory, and then this thread... You young cage-stage calvinists have at these battles, this old calvinist is done with them.


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## Wynteriii (Nov 23, 2013)

I wouldn't say battle, but a debate over right and wrong views of interpreting scripture. A battle gives too much credit to the opposing side.

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## GloriousBoaz (Nov 23, 2013)

Well it was condemned at the councils of Dort, a multi~national gathering the likes of which haven't been seen since except at Westminster. I would recommend these highly I am listening through them twice right now, amazing! "The History and Theology of Calvinism" by Curt Daniel


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