# Why Read Fiction?



## amishrockstar (Jul 20, 2007)

I'm a literature major at a non-Christian college and we just got done going through Sir Philip Sidney's "*The Defense of Poesy*" where he's answering Stephen Gosson (who's alleged to be a Puritan-- I'm not familiar with the man though) and what was supposed to be a general Puritan idea that declared the reading/writing of poetry (fiction) is a waste of time and shouldn't be practiced. 

I've often thought about and been confronted by other Christians with the idea that all we need is the Bible-- reading fictional works such as those of C.S. Lewis are a waste of time. I'm wondering how some people at P.B. would answer that.

One of Sir Sidney's answers was to assert that poetry (fiction) inspires us to virtue in ways that philosophical books can't because they can be very 'wordy' and dry. I can only imagine a Puritan of that era stating that "we have God's Word to instill virtue in us, so again, why do we need fiction?" In other words, why do I need a flashlight (poetry) to convey 'meaning' and virtue when I have a floodlight (the Bible)?

*Thanks for your thoughts,*
Matthew


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## RamistThomist (Jul 20, 2007)

The Bible has fiction (and fantasy!) in it: talking trees, walking trees, Dragons in it. The bible uses fiction to tell a story.


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## k.seymore (Jul 20, 2007)

Why read (good) fiction?
Because it is pleasurable.

Why make wine? 
"To gladden the heart" (Psa 104:15).

Why did God make trees beautiful? 
To be "pleasant to the sight" (Gen 2:9).

Etc.


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## Davidius (Jul 20, 2007)

Anyone who requires more of a justification than "because it's fun" is a functional monastic who, in _one_ way or another, is living inconsistently with his or her own principles by recreating. According to such reasoning, why do _anything_ when we could be doing something "religious"? 

There really is a lot behind this issue. Some people believe that our activities must necessarily be baptized with religion proper in order to be justifiable. They don't have an understanding of what it means to be a citizen of the city of man as well as the city of God. There's nothing _inherently_ wrong with the city of man. In other words, God cares about good culture and we can eat, drink, read Dickens, and listen to Chopin to his glory. I recommend Michael Horton's book Where in the World is the Church?


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## amishrockstar (Jul 20, 2007)

*CarolinaCalvinist,*
Thanks for your comments-- I just ordered that book by Horton from monergism.com ... 
My dad recently opened a Bible bookstore and one of the first things that he said was that he doesn't want 'fiction' in the store. He's attending an Anabaptist church so I had to donate a bunch of my own books in order to get some solid-reformed books in there (books by Packer, Pink, Sproul, Spurgeon, Owens, etc).
I also ran into this "every-book-is-a-waste-of-time-except-the-Bible" mentality at an SBC church that I used to go to. Their reason, again, was why do I want a 'flashlight' when I have a 'floodlight.' You made some interesting points-- thanks again. 
Matthew


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 20, 2007)

The ability to write literature and story is a gift from God. We should enjoy it and use it to his glory. Plus, fictional literature has a way of speaking truth (or error) to society that can't be accomplished in other means. Consider the Lord of the Rings, which is clearly influenced by Christian themes (though not an allegory). You could also consider the societal effects of books like Uncle Tom's Cabin. Literature has a way of shaping and combating worldviews. Christians should use it and enjoy it appropriately.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 20, 2007)

I'd add that Puritans wrote poetry and fiction, although the focus was on faith. Think of Milton and Bunyan.

Fiction has a role in inspiring our imagination to good aspirations. Courage, intelligence, wisdom, charity, etc. can all be found in characters of good literature. And bad characteristics are set out too. Fiction is a great vehicle for bringing out in bold relief the subtle conflicts we have in our daily lives. For instance, whenever I run across an obsessive-compulsive type who is pursuing some end at all cost, I think of Ahab (the captain, not the king). It helps me put things in perspective. I remember that Melville's Ishmael was "alone to tell the story" and proceed with caution in my dealings.

A great deal of fiction is not worth reading. A great deal of non-fiction isn't worth reading. Yet, a great deal is too. The problem is that you can't find out which is which unless you read it.


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## Peter (Jul 20, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Anyone who requires more of a justification than "because it's fun" is a functional monastic who, in _one_ way or another, is living inconsistently with his or her own principles by recreating. According to such reasoning, why do _anything_ when we could be doing something "religious"?
> 
> There really is a lot behind this issue. Some people believe that our activities must necessarily be baptized with religion proper in order to be justifiable. They don't have an understanding of what it means to be a citizen of the city of man as well as the city of God. There's nothing _inherently_ wrong with the city of man. In other words, God cares about good culture and we can eat, drink, read Dickens, and listen to Chopin to his glory. I recommend Michael Horton's book Where in the World is the Church?



Is having "fun" or pleasure its own end? I.e. an ultimate end, or is it a means to an end?


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## amishrockstar (Jul 20, 2007)

Thanks *Puritan Sailor,*
I'd agree with a lot of what you said, but I can just hear the 'knee-jerk' reaction from those who would disagree-- "as Christians, we are to use the Word of God to effect society and combat worldviews, not fiction." 
Anyway, I'm not sure if we can convince someone who doesn't 'want' to be convinced.
Thanks again,
Matthew


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## Davidius (Jul 20, 2007)

Peter said:


> Is having "fun" or pleasure its own end? I.e. an ultimate end, or is it a means to an end?



I'm not sure I understand. 



amishrockstar said:


> *CarolinaCalvinist,*
> Thanks for your comments-- I just ordered that book by Horton from monergism.com ...
> My dad recently opened a Bible bookstore and one of the first things that he said was that he doesn't want 'fiction' in the store. He's attending an Anabaptist church so I had to donate a bunch of my own books in order to get some solid-reformed books in there (books by Packer, Pink, Sproul, Spurgeon, Owens, etc).
> I also ran into this "every-book-is-a-waste-of-time-except-the-Bible" mentality at an SBC church that I used to go to. Their reason, again, was why do I want a 'flashlight' when I have a 'floodlight.' You made some interesting points-- thanks again.
> Matthew



I'm glad you found it helpful. As a fellow college student I know what it feels like to be presented with numerous intellectual pursuits while sometimes feeling unnecessarily held back by a semi-gnostic understanding of the created world. Let me know what you think about the book!


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## RamistThomist (Jul 20, 2007)

Peter said:


> Is having "fun" or pleasure its own end? I.e. an ultimate end, or is it a means to an end?



means to an end, although I don't see what you are getting at.


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## bookslover (Jul 21, 2007)

People who think "stories" are a waste of time better get out their scissors and cut all of Christ's parables out of their New Testaments...

I'm reading _The Way We Live Now_ (1875) by the English novelist Anthony Trollope (1815-1882). This novel is generally considered to be his masterpiece. Trollope uses this novel to indict the English society of his day for its rampant materialism and political and social corruption.

Not only entertaining, but edifying, too.

Good fiction truly is one of God's good gifts.


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## amishrockstar (Jul 21, 2007)

*bookslover,*
Thanks for your comments, maybe I'll take a look at that book by Trollope one of these days (after I read the mountain of books I have now). 

The point that the individuals _ I’ve run across _ are trying to make is NOT that any 'stories,' parables, or anything found in the Bible is bad (so we can put the scissors away), but rather that anything OUTSIDE of the Bible is a waste of time to read or at the very least fictional stories are idle pursuits and we could better spend our time in the Bible.
Being a literature major, I read quite a bit outside of the Bible, I was simply curious how others on PB might answer their objections, such as believers reading Christian fiction, etc. 
Thanks again


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## bookslover (Jul 21, 2007)

I read a fair amount of science fiction when I was in my late teens and early 20s. Not much since then; I guess I've lost my taste for it.

But the best science fiction is very good, indeed.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 21, 2007)

amishrockstar said:


> Thanks *Puritan Sailor,*
> I'd agree with a lot of what you said, but I can just hear the 'knee-jerk' reaction from those who would disagree-- "as Christians, we are to use the Word of God to effect society and combat worldviews, not fiction."
> Anyway, I'm not sure if we can convince someone who doesn't 'want' to be convinced.
> Thanks again,
> Matthew



Stories can convey the truth of the Word of God, just like good music, poetry, art, etc. I'm certainly not saying we should make Mark Twain our devotional reading, but there is much we can learn about our own culture and ideas through reading those great works which have influenced our culture. It also gives those gifted in writing an avenue to confront our culture with it's blindspots, and do so in such a way that is rather disarming or sometimes even comical. Just look at Jane Austin's novels or Charles Dickens. Or consider the disturbing portrayals of modernism and socialism in Orwell or Huxely. In fiction we can reveal the emptiness of worldy values and illustrate the true value of Christian virture without naming names. It's a different way to transform culture. As Christians we are not to retreat from culture. God equips people with writing gifts to be used for His glory. Who are we to tell them not to use those gifts?


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## JJF (Jul 21, 2007)

Matthew,

You may find this book helpful as well.

The Liberated Imagination


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 21, 2007)

Abraham Kuyper, _Lectures on Calvinism_:



> In itself there is nothing sinful in fiction–the power of the imagination is a precious gift of God Himself.


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## weinhold (Jul 21, 2007)

The value of fiction is what Aristotle termed "mimesis," or imitation. Fiction mimics reality in a metaphoric relationship ("X is Y," rather than simile, which would be "X is like Y"). For a time, as Coleridge would have it, we are to "suspend disbelief," and allow the author's world to become our own. Only after we have had such an experience can that exchange be analyzed for its accuracy to the "real world." 

Fiction is valuable, therefore, because it acts as a heuristic device in many cases. Consider Dostoevsky, for example, whose novels test the nihilism prevalent in his own time. Fiction is also valuable because it awakens one's imagination to the sacramental nature of life. If one understands the metaphoric value of a piece of literature, if one comprehends the significance of inky scratches upon a sheet of white paper, then one begins to intuit the way in which the divine is infused into the mundane. In other words, the whole world becomes a poem, with infinite complexity and multivalence. Fiction reminds us that the world is full of the presence of what Faulkner called "the old verities," and that there is more to life than the question, "When will I be blown up?" In other words, fiction is a way of comprehending the world indirectly, which offers not mere pleasure (though it is pleasurable), but the access to the deepest realities.


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## JJF (Jul 21, 2007)

Literature also makes its readers have a greater sympathy and appreciation for-albeit often sinful-people/culture around them. It fosters genuine humility and healthy emotions for others.

It heightens, deepens, and broadens the creative powers of the intellect, which, in turn, will affect one's ability to illuminate an otherwise confusing situation and to persuade others to the truth. 

One feature of the Bible that I find so compelling is that it's a story, one in which a reader can get lost. The drama of God's redemptive plan is rich and complete; the beauty of its structure, of its coherence, of its characters is aesthetically pleasing and grand for the eye to behold. When I read the Scripture, I really am existentially caught up in the christological climax of every passage. One basic reason why people don't read their Bibles well is that they don't read well in general.


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## k.seymore (Jul 21, 2007)

weinhold said:


> Fiction is valuable, therefore, because it acts as a heuristic device in many cases.



And steak is valuable because it acts as a heuristic device, especially with blue cheese topping it. Oh and that is also the value of a good massage: massages are nice heuristic devices. And don't forget the beauty of looking at such minimally well-designed pieces of technology like iPods. Heuristic beauty, that is. 



weinhold said:


> Fiction is also valuable because it awakens one's imagination to the sacramental nature of life.



Amen!


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## weinhold (Jul 21, 2007)

k.seymore said:


> And steak is valuable because it acts as a heuristic device, especially with blue cheese topping it. Oh and that is also the value of a good massage: massages are nice heuristic devices. And don't forget the beauty of looking at such minimally well-designed pieces of technology like iPods. Heuristic beauty, that is.




Sorry, I didn't get the joke.


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## Peter (Jul 22, 2007)

Draught Horse said:


> means to an end, although I don't see what you are getting at.



If fiction is fun why should we have fun? Don't we believe some things people do for fun is unjustifiable?

What is the point of fun? Rest, catharsis from daily stress? Does reading fiction fit into this? how?


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## RamistThomist (Jul 22, 2007)

Peter said:


> If fiction is fun why should we have fun? Don't we believe some things people do for fun is unjustifiable?
> 
> What is the point of fun? Rest, catharsis from daily stress? Does reading fiction fit into this? how?



With all due respect,

1) I have no idea what you are talking about.
2) It seems like you are splitting hairs.


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## satz (Jul 22, 2007)

Peter said:


> If fiction is fun why should we have fun? Don't we believe some things people do for fun is unjustifiable?
> 
> What is the point of fun? Rest, catharsis from daily stress? Does reading fiction fit into this? how?



True, somethings that people do for fun are unjustifiable, but we know those things are so because of the word of God. That same word of God has nothing to say about fiction either way. 

I would appreciate if you could clarify the meaning of your questions, or why you feel there is a need for christians to answer them. The bible tells us in Pro 24:13 to eat honey simply because it is good and sweet. Granted, that is part of a larger metaphor teaching the value of wisdom, but I fail to see where the bible prevents christians from engaging in activities simply for the sake of enjoyment if those activities are not condemned by God.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 22, 2007)

God is fun! 

I read some where that we were suppose to "enjoy him forever..."


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jul 22, 2007)

Puritan Sailor said:


> God is fun!
> 
> I read some where that we were suppose to "enjoy him forever..."



I've been watching this thread, as writing is a twin passion for me along with ministry (the two are one in some respects). As Patrick implied earlier, works such as LOTR powerfully impact the moral, aesthetic, and very heart-sense of us.

Sometimes fiction, and I think of a special sort of fiction, that which enters into the mythic realm, may intuit spiritual realites in such profundity, that so-called "realism" pales before it. Arthurian legend is an example of such.

*THE MIRAGE OF ARTHUR*

I do not say _legend_ as that is less
real 
than a reflection of the real,
distorted or hazy as that may be
floating as it is in air
or consciousness
over the reflected

what, then, is the real
under the mirage of Arthur?

Take a king
of unique and mysterious birth
rising out of mean obscurity
to seize a sword of such unearthly power
— which none other can grasp and wield —
by it uniting disparate and warring peoples
into a unified kingdom
and by his prowess, 
majesty of personhood
and true love of them
win such love from his people
they would as soon die as live 
for love of him

the sword given by a woman
in whom rested the living waters
from a High Throne off-world, 
from whence also was forged the blade
which had no beginning
gleaming always with the brilliance
of the child’s father

A king who died a mysterious death
and the word was
would return
and bring the kingdom again
in true and greater glory.

They live — even in this day —
who live by this
real-under-the-mirage joy,
Story-beneath-all-stories joy,
who dance and sing
in the king’s unending kingdom
while yet in Time,
for the glory of legends and such mirages
has overflowed into Time
and cannot any longer be contained
but must wash across the earth
till the whole is filled with it

even though the precious dispensing vessels
be first broken, blood like seed soaking the earth,
saints and martyrs all, for love, 
for Arthur’s true image, and return.​
-------------

Love some fiction as I do, I personally prefer to write in a new genre called, _Visionary adventure, non-fiction_. May not the truth of our lives following Christ, beset about by devils, en route to Celestial City, tested and refined by fiery trials as we stand visible before the world in the Global Arena of Consciousness, be as exciting and attention-arresting as make-believe stories?

Is not our very _consciousness_ the stuff of heroic legend, albeit containing an element of the anti-hero (Tim Keller: "more wicked than we dared to think, more loved than we dared to hope"), and yet these lives as sons and daughters of the Almighty, adopted into His royal lineage are stunningly more glorious than any legend of earth!

And from whence we came! Was it not from the monsters of the brood, _the living dead_, glorious of skin-covering perhaps, but within progeny of the prince of demons in our human form. 

Fiction pales before the actuality of this human condition we are in, were there but the tellers to say it. Did not Dylan intimate such, in his “Chimes of Freedom,” flashing like lightning,

strikin’ for the gentle, strikin’ for the kind,
strikin’ for the guardians and protectors of the mind,
and the poet, and the painter far behind his rightful time…​
----------

THE GREAT AMERICAN NOVEL

will never be written

because, first, who cares
for even a great sprawling fiction
since there is not one Dostoevsky alive
to fill it with living vision

and then, again, who cares
for but another fantasy
however shot through with genius
in these archetypal days of our reality

no, a novel is a plaything
of genius, and peoples
to make up for the absence
of an epic Poet

only the actual matters
anymore, only the truth
of these our lives & this our world
has any relevance whatsoever

and it is in the works

THE GREAT AMERICAN POEM​
-----------

Art may encompass the real world, and in it to "enjoy Him forever" our _raison d'être_, He the strength of our hearts, His loving kindness better than life. All this in the adventure of the ages, a grand saga of horror and glory. Our lives.

Sorry for going on so; y'all were touching upon one of my loves!


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## Peter (Jul 22, 2007)

satz said:


> True, somethings that people do for fun are unjustifiable, but we know those things are so because of the word of God. That same word of God has nothing to say about fiction either way.
> 
> I would appreciate if you could clarify the meaning of your questions, or why you feel there is a need for christians to answer them. The bible tells us in Pro 24:13 to eat honey simply because it is good and sweet. Granted, that is part of a larger metaphor teaching the value of wisdom, but I fail to see where the bible prevents christians from engaging in activities simply for the sake of enjoyment if those activities are not condemned by God.



I'm not sure how I could possibly clarify the question. With the exception of a single grammatical mistake I think it's pretty strait forward English.

I think they're important questions because Christians are called to redeem the time because the days are evil and to do everything for the glory of God. Every moment we live under the watchful eye of God. Every act should be ordered before him. Everything we do we do for a purpose that we think will ultimately lead us to good. Have we examined to what purpose we act and followed the chain of lesser good-for-something-else's-sake to its source, what's good for its own sake ? I believe any act done simply for the sake of its own enjoyment is idolatry. It's condemned by the command to have no other god's before God. God alone is Good.

I agree heartily with Patrick.

I think I got you guys defensive b/c I gave the impression I'm attacking fiction. I believe from common sense intuition that fiction is good but I'd like to know why. How does fiction bring us to God?


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## Mathetes (Jul 22, 2007)

Let's not forget that Paul was well-versed (no pun intended) in Greek poetry, despite the fact that his master, Gamaliel, was quite opposed to it.


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## Davidius (Jul 22, 2007)

Peter said:


> I think I got you guys defensive b/c I gave the impression I'm attacking fiction. I believe from common sense intuition that fiction is good but I'd like to know why. How does fiction bring us to God?



Where did you get the phrase "bring us to God" and where did the requirement for whatever that means come from?


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## RamistThomist (Jul 23, 2007)

Another justification for reading fiction is that we need to be familiar with the currents of thought in modern culture. As much as it pains us to admit, most people in culture are not influenced by weighty, nuanced theological treatises. Francis Schaeffer made this point really well: more people are influenced by literature than they are by abstract arguments. 

How many of us can name the top books in American life at the moment? How would you respond to them? Could you, using those books, anticipate the way culture is heading? David Wells is particularly good at this. 

Why read fiction? One of the reasons is that it is the arena in which we do battle. For example, one of my favorite authors is Robert Jordan. However, Jordan's books have a cyclical/hindu view of history and evil. How would I respond to it, etc. etc.


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## christiana (Jul 23, 2007)

I enjoyed the fiction of Richard P. Belcher who uses his books to teach sound biblical doctrines, the doctrines of grace, eschatology and others. I enjoyed the 'Journey' series and feel they are a great help to young people or those just learning of calvinism. Journey into Grace, and the others I found very clear in their teaching. Though fiction he does a great job of teaching the sound doctrines we love! http://www.richbarrypress.com/


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## weinhold (Jul 23, 2007)

Draught Horse said:


> How many of us can name the top books in American life at the moment?



Here's my top-of-the-head 10 list for American Literature:

1. Moby-Dick
2. Huck-Finn
3. Scarlet Letter
4. Light in August
5. Great Gatsby
6. Short Stories of Flannery O'Connor
7. Death of a Salesman
8. Beloved
9. To Kill A Mockingbird
10. Walden

*edit* I should probably add more Faulkner to this list . . . what do you folks think?


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jul 23, 2007)

Draught Horse said:


> Another justification for reading fiction is that we need to be familiar with the currents of thought in modern culture.





We need to be culturally relivant within the constraints of a Biblical way of life.

Good point!


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## 3John2 (Jul 23, 2007)

I've got "Walden" on my list for next 5 books to read.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 23, 2007)

weinhold said:


> Here's my top-of-the-head 10 list for American Literature:
> 
> 1. Moby-Dick
> 2. Huck-Finn
> ...



Yes to Faulkner.

I've read all of those except Beloved and Light in August. Walden, Huck-Finn, and Moby Dick all influenced my formative years tremendously.

I think Jacob may have been thinking about contemporary fiction, though, as in Harry Potter etc. I'd be surprised if the books you have listed are influencing many young people today. Maybe Mockingbird.


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## k.seymore (Jul 24, 2007)

weinhold said:


> Sorry, I didn't get the joke.



Oh sorry... it is because what you said was so much deeper than what had been said (at least by me) previously. I was pretending to be as smart and purposefully failing miserably.


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## Peter (Jul 24, 2007)

3John2 said:


> I've got "Walden" on my list for next 5 books to read.



I think Walden is non-fiction (Thoreau's memoirs). 

Its also on my list of things to read.


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## Peter (Jul 24, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Where did you get the phrase "bring us to God" and where did the requirement for whatever that means come from?



I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but, like I was saying in my earlier post, if we believe God is the spring of all good if we follow up any stream it will lead us to Him if the stream is good. If we can trace down the emanation of good from God we can follow it back to him. I believe it's true but I don't claim any knowledge; maybe there's a wise person who knows differently. Eg. we eat and drink to nourish our bodies, we nourish our bodies to live, we live to worship, we worship to experience union with God. That's something like what I mean, not to imply necessarily that the sole purpose of life is worship or even that this sequence is correct.

in my opinion to enjoy fiction (or anything) for its own sake is to love the creature more than the creator. How do we enjoy fiction for God sake or enjoy God through fiction? "For from him and through him and to him are all thing. To the glory of God. Amen."


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## christiana (Jul 24, 2007)

Thoreau was humanist, was he not? Nice sounding words, but totally fixed on his own ideation, lacking in credit to the creator, just enjoying the created!


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## weinhold (Jul 24, 2007)

k.seymore said:


> Oh sorry... it is because what you said was so much deeper than what had been said (at least by me) previously. I was pretending to be as smart and purposefully failing miserably.



Got it!  Thanks for the compliment; sorry I was too dense to get it!


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## RamistThomist (Jul 24, 2007)

Peter said:


> I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but, like I was saying in my earlier post, if we believe God is the spring of all good if we follow up any stream it will lead us to Him if the stream is good. If we can trace down the emanation of good from God we can follow it back to him. I believe it's true but I don't claim any knowledge; maybe there's a wise person who knows differently. Eg. we eat and drink to nourish our bodies, we nourish our bodies to live, we live to worship, we worship to experience union with God. That's something like what I mean, not to imply necessarily that the sole purpose of life is worship or even that this sequence is correct.
> 
> in my opinion to enjoy fiction (or anything) for its own sake is to love the creature more than the creator. How do we enjoy fiction for God sake or enjoy God through fiction? "For from him and through him and to him are all thing. To the glory of God. Amen."



Because we can glorify God by using our minds to interact with current streams in culture. I understand what we are saying, but it runs the risk of extreme introspection on everything we do.


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## satz (Jul 24, 2007)

Peter said:


> in my opinion to enjoy fiction (or anything) for its own sake is to love the creature more than the creator.



While I agree with the spirit behind this statement and certainly hope to emulate it in my daily life, I am wondering if you are reading too much into things. God gave us good things to enjoy (1 Tim 6:17) and while we must never love pleasure more than God or forget to be thankful to God for the good gifts he provides, I am not sure I see in the bible that to enjoy something simply because it is enjoyable is sin. The 'enjoyability' of that thing and our ability to enjoy is, it seems to me, presented in the bible as a gift from God to be appreciated, even if it must be kept in its proper place in life.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 24, 2007)

christiana said:


> Thoreau was humanist, was he not? Nice sounding words, but totally fixed on his own ideation, lacking in credit to the creator, just enjoying the created!



Yes, of course he was. A transcendentalist at that. It is important to know that going in. 

Nevertheless, he taught me as a young pagan to look at the world in a big way. Ants weren't just ants, they were armies; a small pond was not just a body of water, but a reflection of history and creation; etc. He also showed me the advantage of trying to live as a minimalist: how owning few possessions assists freedom to think and owning much can make one a slave to possessions. It led to interesting experiments.

And mostly, he taught me how to think passionately and even dramatically about the most mundane things. Even more interestingly, his quotations from scripture led me to read the Bible.

So we can learn things from the humanists. Some of them were quite good at seeing things we ignore.


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## christiana (Jul 24, 2007)

victorbravo said:


> Yes, of course he was. A transcendentalist at that. It is important to know that going in.
> 
> Nevertheless, he taught me as a young pagan to look at the world in a big way. Ants weren't just ants, they were armies; a small pond was not just a body of water, but a reflection of history and creation; etc. He also showed me the advantage of trying to live as a minimalist: how owning few possessions assists freedom to think and owning much can make one a slave to possessions. It led to interesting experiments.
> 
> ...




Loved your post and how you gained benefit from a pagan! You're so right, that our vision should be unlimited and yet to view all through a biblical worldview! I certainly agree also about the snare of materialism and how it enslaves one, almost prohibiting sight of the glories of creation itself!
Blessings and thanks!


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## MrMerlin777 (Jul 24, 2007)

All I can really say about reading fiction is that there are alot of good books out there fiction and non. They stimulate thought and entertain in a way that TV never could.


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## 3John2 (Jul 24, 2007)

True about "Walden" I just happened to buy several books at Barnes & Nobles that were classics. It was like buy 2 get 1 free or something. I bought "Walden", "Alice In Wonderland" & "Grimm Brothers Fairy Tales". Not sure why i bought those. Must have been in a weird mood & I know I'd read most of the others.


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## bookslover (Jul 25, 2007)

One of the things that makes reading good fiction so entertaining is that, in talented hands, it gives the author a chance to sound off on topics that interest him right in the midst of his narrative.

This is taken from Chapter 11 of Anthony Trollope's (1815-1882) novel _The Way We Live Now_ (1875). One of his characters has just published a book; it's not a very good book, but the character is high enough up in society to be able to have the book published and get book reviewers to review it. Trollope takes the opportunity to kick a little dirt in the direction of the "book reviewing profession. He starts by categorizing book reviews:

_There is the review intended to sell a book - which comes out immediately after the appearance of the book, or sometimes before it; the review which gives reputation, but does not affect the sale, and which comes a little later; the review which snuffs a book out quietly; the review which is to raise or lower the author a single peg, or two pegs, as the case may be; the review which is to suddenly make an author, and the review which is to crush him. An exuberant [reviewer] has been known before now to declare aloud that he would crush a man, and a self-confident [reviewer] has been known to declare that he has accomplished the deed. Of all reviews, the crushing review is the most popular, as being the most readable. When the rumor goes abroad that some notable man has been actually crushed - been positively driven over by an entire Juggernaut's car of criticism till his literary body be a mere amorphous mass - then a real success has been achieved...

The composition of the review, together with the reading of the book, consumed altogether perhaps an hour of Mr. Booker's time. He made no attempt to cut the pages, but here and there read those that were open. He had done this kind of thing so often that he knew well what he was about. He could have reviewed such a book when he was three parts asleep. When the work was done, he threw down his pen and uttered a deep sigh. He felt it to be hard upon him that he should be so compelled, by the exigencies of his position, to descend so low in literature; but it did not occur to him to reflect that in fact he was not so compelled, and that he was quite at liberty to break stones, or to starve, honestly, of no other honest mode of carrying on his career was open to him. "If I didn't do it, somebody else would," he said to himself._


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