# Is The Large Hadron Collider Gonna Blow Us Up?



## Mushroom (Sep 7, 2008)

All right Todd, PB resident evil scientist and anybody else who might know, is this thing dangerous? When I was reading about it and saw they were hoping to create anti-matter it brought to mind something I remember hearing in HS physics - that if anti-matter and matter ever meet it would produce a chain reaction that wouldn't stop. I don't have any knowledge about these things, but apparently someone else heard that, and is taking it seriously:

Cern Lawsuit

What say you?


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## Zenas (Sep 7, 2008)

Wow. Arrogance.

[video=youtube;-41ve90rks8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-41ve90rks8&feature=related[/video]


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 7, 2008)

I had actually heard of this place before from my undergraduate degree. The thing is freaking huge!! I mean beyond huge; underground. Billions of dollars spent to look at just what they said, the after effects of atomic collision, particle emissions et al. I still love engineering!!! 



> However, opponents fear the machine, which will smash pieces of atoms together at high speed and generate temperatures of more than a trillion degrees centigrade, may create a mini-black hole that could tear the earth apart.


Hmmm...


I don't believe it is dangerous. The political effect of it having anything wrong with it and giving it a bad name gives a way for it to be operated safely. If you could go back in time, what day and what would you prevent? I think of 3 mile island because it gave the US time to become ignorant toward nuclear power and just say "not in my backyard, but I love the electricity." Persists today. Yet, I also wouldn't change it because the NRC and private companies changed policy and operating processes to ensure safety. Nuclear power today is so different, more efficient than what was produced in the 1970's. Yet, with only about four applications to construct nuclear reactor facilities on the table at the NRC, I guess we won't be seeing it anytime soon. Boy, howdy, its gonna be awesome when it does!

LOVE NUCLEAR POWER!!! LOVE IT!!!


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## TimV (Sep 7, 2008)

It sounds like some are concerned about micro black holes. Black holes, if they exist are super collapsed whatevers (I understand they can theoretically be made of anything), where the atomic structure is so condensed that even though it might be microscopic they have a gravity attraction that is so outrageous that it will suck in anything around it. What happens next is open for discussion, but eventually is becomes saturated, and no longer sucks things in. There are new theories every day, but my favorite is from the old SciFi author Jack Vance, who figured they'd reach saturation and stabilize but still have a heavier than normal gravity. So you could take a mini black hole, dump debris on it, let it reach saturation and then terraform it, with soil and plants and animals. You could put them in permanent orbit around the earth, but the extra gravity would hold in an oxygen/nitrogen atmosphere, so people could have their own mini moon to live on.

Others say that when they reach saturation point, they release all the matter that they took in, and the energy would cause a huge explosion.

But the chain reaction wouldn't happen. Don't know about any matter anti-matter chain reaction, but there's enough in the Bible about the future that we can all agree on that I don't think we have to worry much about doomsday.

Cool article, though, and thanks for posting it. Hopefully something beneficial other than not being able to prove the Big Bang will come out of it.


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## toddpedlar (Sep 7, 2008)

Brad said:


> All right Todd, PB resident evil scientist and anybody else who might know, is this thing dangerous? When I was reading about it and saw they were hoping to create anti-matter it brought to mind something I remember hearing in HS physics - that if anti-matter and matter ever meet it would produce a chain reaction that wouldn't stop. I don't have any knowledge about these things, but apparently someone else heard that, and is taking it seriously:
> 
> Cern Lawsuit
> 
> What say you?



Since in my current experimental work we create antimatter daily and smash it with normal matter to study physics of subatomic phenomena, I'd say that I have it on pretty good authority that there's nothing going to happen.

Alec Baldwin and others filed a similar lawsuit on Long Island when a new accelerator at Brookhaven National Lab (where I've also worked) was starting up. 

Nothing to worry about...


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## Zenas (Sep 7, 2008)

It looks like Mr. Pedlar is in on the conspiracy to get all of our base.


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## toddpedlar (Sep 7, 2008)

Zenas said:


> It looks like Mr. Pedlar is in on the conspiracy to get all of our base.



wink, wink, nudge, nudge, say no more...


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## Ivan (Sep 7, 2008)

Zenas said:


> It looks like Mr. Pedlar is in on the conspiracy to get all of our base.



If true he would go down with us!


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 7, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Brad said:
> 
> 
> > All right Todd, PB resident evil scientist and anybody else who might know, is this thing dangerous? When I was reading about it and saw they were hoping to create anti-matter it brought to mind something I remember hearing in HS physics - that if anti-matter and matter ever meet it would produce a chain reaction that wouldn't stop. I don't have any knowledge about these things, but apparently someone else heard that, and is taking it seriously:
> ...



Shoreham Nuclear facility was actually never put into commercial operation due to protests at its Long Island site. Sad state of affairs and sad state of mentality because the 660MW that could have been produced at the facility starting in 1985, then had to be produced by other means, and you know what that is. So, who harmed the environment more?


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## VictorBravo (Sep 7, 2008)

Ivan said:


> Zenas said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like Mr. Pedlar is in on the conspiracy to get all of our base.
> ...



Nope, Ivan. Didn't you see he works daily with *antimatter*? Todd will just surround himself with some anti-tachyons and wait until the doom passes. . . .


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## Ivan (Sep 7, 2008)

victorbravo said:


> Ivan said:
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> > Zenas said:
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Genius, sheer genius!!! And diabolical too....


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## BJClark (Sep 7, 2008)

Brad, 

My husband was wondering the same thing as he saw it on the news it's going to be tested this week. I told him, I'm not worried about it, nothing is going to happen.


Here is another article on it..

Israel Jewish News: Recreating Creation? Israeli Scientists Probe the Big Bang with a Large Hadron Collider (LHC)


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## TimV (Sep 7, 2008)

So Todd, does that stuff really react violently with matter, or only a certain kind of matter, or what?


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## panta dokimazete (Sep 7, 2008)

and on the lighter side...

[video=youtube;j50ZssEojtM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j50ZssEojtM[/video]


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## Grymir (Sep 7, 2008)

Just listen to Coast to Coast AM, they say we are.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 8, 2008)

victorbravo said:


> Ivan said:
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> > Zenas said:
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Oh no! What will the Hadron Collider do to the Dilithium Crystals???

[video=youtube;szyz8Dr0-Vc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szyz8Dr0-Vc[/video]


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

I dunno, guys. I've played Half-Life. I've been to the Black Mesa Research Facility and seen what happens when a strange new machine is switched on to perform some kind of "helpful" experiment. If this thing doesn't destroy the planet, it may very well open a portal to another dimension, thereby releasing hordes of ferocious aliens on earth. Somebody call Gordon Freeman!


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## Mushroom (Sep 8, 2008)

> I dunno, guys. I've played Half-Life. If this thing doesn't destroy the planet, it may very well open a portal to another dimension, thereby releasing hordes of ferocious aliens on earth. Somebody call Gordon Freeman!


Will it be a one way portal, or could we escape into their dimension?


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 8, 2008)

panta dokimazete said:


> and on the lighter side...
> 
> YouTube - Large Hadron Rap



This song, though unique, is dreadful.

Maybe this is a device of the apocalypse and no one is tellin'. So if you see a glow off in the east, there you go.


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

Why do we need to do this, anyway??


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## gene_mingo (Sep 8, 2008)

No, everyone who is anyone knows that the end of the world is in 2012. Thats when the Maya calendar ends.


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## Mushroom (Sep 8, 2008)

Davidius said:


> Why do we need to do this, anyway??


To find out if we can make mini-blackholes that we're sure won't suck us all up into super-dense matter, why else?


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## Mushroom (Sep 8, 2008)

gene_mingo said:


> No, everyone who is anyone knows that the end of the world is in 2012. Thats when the Maya calendar ends.


Yeah, but this German scientist behind the lawsuit says it'll take 4 years for the chain reaction to finally destroy the earth, so it dovetails nicely with the Mayan's prediction, and If I recall correctly, Harold Camping is predicting somewhere around the same date for the advent. Could it possibly all just be coincidince?

I'm gettin' all nervous all of a sudden....


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## toddpedlar (Sep 8, 2008)

TimV said:


> So Todd, does that stuff really react violently with matter, or only a certain kind of matter, or what?



Depends on what you mean by violently. Any antimatter when brought into contact with matter will annihilate, producing energy, or a spray of other matter and antimatter particles. The amount of energy, though, produced in any given matter-antimatter annihilation is really not terribly much - even at the energies reached by the LHC. What we deem to be large energies pales in comparison to the average jelly donut.

It should also be noted that the collisions at the LHC are between proton and proton, and not matter/antimatter collisions ilke go on at a factor 7 smaller energy at Fermilab (proton on antiproton collisions). The most energy that can be carried off by antimatter produced in any one collision at the LHC is equal to half the total collision energy between the two protons in the two beams. 

Anyway - at Fermilab, where matter/antimatter annihilation experiments have been routine for over 20 years (and at Cornell, where my experiment was done, for over 30 years) the energy in the annihilation is 2 in units called Tera-electron-Volts. That is, 10^12 electron-Volts. One electron-Volt is the energy an electron would have if accelerated from rest between two battery terminals that have 1 volt between them.

So - 10^12 electron-Volts is the energy of an electron accelerated between terminals having a voltage of 1 trillion volts between them.

To convert to normal energies: A jelly-donut has 200 Calories, say. 1 Calorie for food is 1000 calories for energy purposes. 1000 calories is 4186 Joules. 1 Joule is about 6.24 x 10^18 electron-Volts. 

So the energy burned in consuming a jelly donut is about 200C*4186 J/C - or 8.37 x 10^5 J. That is, a jelly donut's energy is 5.22 x 10^24 electronVolts, or 5.22 trillion times the energy released in a collision of proton and antiproton at Fermilab. 

...just to put things in perspective.


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## TimV (Sep 8, 2008)

Thanks, that was helpful.


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## BJClark (Sep 8, 2008)

Davidius;



> Why do we need to do this, anyway??



A couple of reasons, they are trying to prove the big bang theory is not just a theory, and that God did not create the Universe.

Personally, I believe they are fools and God will prove them to be fools.


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## toddpedlar (Sep 8, 2008)

BJClark said:


> Davidius;
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> ...



Quite honestly, I don't think that has anything to do with the physics being studied at the LHC. There is to my knowledge no attempt being made to tie what they are studying to proof or disproof of the big bang - that is to most of them a foregone conclusion, as is the notion of God's creatorship of the universe. Where there IS a connection to cosmology is in the nature of trying to understand what kind of matter is out there that is not visible to conventional astronomy. Anything they discover along those lines (there are MANY, MANY OTHER things being studied too) will be interpreted in the terms of the Big bang model. 

That they are fools in the Biblical sense is a certainty anyway, and anyone who has eyes to see will see them as such; those that don't, won't.


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 8, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> TimV said:
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> 
> > So Todd, does that stuff really react violently with matter, or only a certain kind of matter, or what?
> ...



I got it! No, I really did. Thanks brother for putting it in perspective. It is amazing what man can do with numbers and enough material, such as this. But, but, I hope that they are realizing that they are only finding things that are already there. Do you think they are remembering the LORD in all this?


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

If it's so obviously safe, why the fuss from other scientists? As a Christian, I am used to not trusting the mainline scientific consensus.


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## gene_mingo (Sep 8, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> TimV said:
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> > So Todd, does that stuff really react violently with matter, or only a certain kind of matter, or what?
> ...



Should I be afraid of a jelly now?


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## Devin (Sep 8, 2008)

Davidius said:


> I dunno, guys. I've played Half-Life. I've been to the Black Mesa Research Facility and seen what happens when a strange new machine is switched on to perform some kind of "helpful" experiment. If this thing doesn't destroy the planet, it may very well open a portal to another dimension, thereby releasing hordes of ferocious aliens on earth. Somebody call Gordon Freeman!
> [/IMG]



I have a vast array of crowbars at the ready.


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

Devin said:


> Davidius said:
> 
> 
> > I dunno, guys. I've played Half-Life. I've been to the Black Mesa Research Facility and seen what happens when a strange new machine is switched on to perform some kind of "helpful" experiment. If this thing doesn't destroy the planet, it may very well open a portal to another dimension, thereby releasing hordes of ferocious aliens on earth. Somebody call Gordon Freeman!
> ...



You can never have too many crowbars. Remember to check for headcrabs under your bed at night before turning in.


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## Zenas (Sep 8, 2008)

If a portal opens up, I'm going to Bass Pro Shop. 

They have food, tents, and tons of weapons. 

I'll probably go to one in Texas, just to increase my armed capabilities and that of my few surviving back-up fodder. I'm goin' out strapped son.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 8, 2008)




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## Ivan (Sep 8, 2008)

Zenas said:


> If a portal opens up, I'm going to Bass Pro Shop.
> 
> They have food, tents, and tons of weapons.
> 
> I'll probably go to one in Texas, just to increase my armed capabilities and that of my few surviving back-up fodder. I'm goin' out strapped son.



I don't know if I can get all the way to Texas on a tank of gas, but you've got the right location. However, some of those boys up in northern Wisconsin are pretty handy with a weapon too!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 8, 2008)

There are places in West Virginia they would never find me.


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## panta dokimazete (Sep 8, 2008)

country folk can surviiiiiiiiiiiiiive!!!!


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

Of course, the weapons and extra food will do us no good if we get a black hole that sucks us in and turns us into dark matter instead of a portal to an alien dimension.


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## Zenas (Sep 8, 2008)

You and your science can't stand in the face of my 12 gauge.


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## panta dokimazete (Sep 8, 2008)

theory meets cold hard truth...


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## Devin (Sep 8, 2008)

Zenas said:


> You and your science can't stand in the face of my 12 gauge.





Good line.


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## Ivan (Sep 8, 2008)

Devin said:


> Zenas said:
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> 
> > You and your science can't stand in the face of my 12 gauge.
> ...



Bubba say *OH YEAH!!*


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## Grymir (Sep 9, 2008)

Ivan said:


> Devin said:
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> > Zenas said:
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Your local conservative says Mega Ditto's!!!!


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## ChristianTrader (Sep 9, 2008)

My question about the whole thing is if they will find some insight into dark matter and dark energy. My gut says no, but it will be interesting none the less.

CT


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## Southern Presbyterian (Sep 9, 2008)

*According to Stephen Hawking...*

Hawking Bets Collider Won't Find 'God Particle'


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 10, 2008)

Has the Large Hadron Collider destroyed the world yet?


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 10, 2008)

That was a dumb website Andrew. . I could have answered that one without owning the domain. 

"Are we dead yet?"

Good witnessing conversation starter though.


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## govols (Sep 10, 2008)

Still here.


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## toddpedlar (Sep 10, 2008)

Just a note here - "startup" at the LHC means putting a single beam into the collider ring at low energy. They won't have collisions between two beams for quite some time, and won't have collisions at even 2/3 of the full design energy for at least 2 months. So "nope" is a little premature (not that I have any worries at all about the hyped-up scenario)


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## jfschultz (Sep 10, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Just a note here - "startup" at the LHC means putting a single beam into the collider ring at low energy. They won't have collisions between two beams for quite some time, and won't have collisions at even 2/3 of the full design energy for at least 2 months. So "nope" is a little premature (not that I have any worries at all about the hyped-up scenario)



Of course "nope" can just be left there since that will be true until there is no one left to check the site.


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## jambo (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't know what the problem is. If you believe in the Creator, then surely His voice cannot be copied. If however they can create a black hole, my only comfort is those scientist will be the first to get sucked into it.


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