# Wright on afterlife



## Scott (Jan 27, 2006)

I saw this excerpt from Wright: "The New Testament offers us glimpses of where the story is to end: not with us going to heaven, as in many hymns and prayers, but with new creation."

Can anyone fill me in on what he means and what resources discuss this?

Thanks


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## wsw201 (Jan 27, 2006)

That quote does sound kinda weird.


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## BJClark (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> I saw this excerpt from Wright: "The New Testament offers us glimpses of where the story is to end: not with us going to heaven, as in many hymns and prayers, but with new creation."
> 
> Can anyone fill me in on what he means and what resources discuss this?
> ...



It's possible he is refering to Rev 21

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the Holy City, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband."


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## Scott (Jan 27, 2006)

I can see some sense is the view that God is going to complete what he started in the Garden of Eden. God did not create Adam in heaven (at least a heaven distinct from earth). The Fall ruined the design. I could see a recreation of the Edenic enterprise to be what it was meant to be. It seems that for people to simply go to heaven would be an abandonment of the initial plan.


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## BJClark (Jan 27, 2006)

There is also a verse in the Old Testament Isaiah 63:17 that refers to a New Heavens and New Earth being created.


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## Rich Barcellos (Jan 27, 2006)

Heaven, where Christ is now, is where all dead siants exist with disembodied souls ("absent from the body, present with the Lord"). This is the intermediate state for saints - the state of existence between death and resurrection. The eternal state, however, is not the same. It consists of only the saved with Christ in the new heavens and new earth (2 Pt. 3). It is preceeded by Christ's coming, the resurrection, judment, and transformation of heaven and earth (Rom. 8; 2 Pt. 3; 1 Thess 4; etc.). Many older hymns seem to depict the intermediate state as the eternal state. Maybe that's what Wright was pointing out.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 27, 2006)

Yeah, there's nothing wrong with what he's saying.


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## Scott (Jan 27, 2006)

Rich: What you are saying makes sense. But what will the new heavens and the new earth be like? And what will the relation b/t heaven and earth be? For example, after the resurrection, will the saints be in heaven, on earth, both?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 27, 2006)

In my understanding, all the saints will be on the renewed earth and Christ will reign over them as King. Life will be as it was pre-lapsarian.


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## Rich Barcellos (Jan 27, 2006)

We will be on the new earth. All friction and distorion brought on by the presence of sin will be eradicated. All effects of sin will be gone. All limitations due to sin will be history. It will be edenic and beyond. We will be in a better state than Adam was when created. He was created with the ability to sin or not to sin. In other words, he could fall. We, on the other hand, will be able not to sin, and thus not able to fall from that state. Adam was created in a mutable state. We will be ushered into an immutable state on that great day.


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## Scott (Jan 27, 2006)

Ok, so what is the relation of heaven to earth in the eternal state? Where will God's throne be?


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## RamistThomist (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> In my understanding, all the saints will be on the renewed earth and Christ will reign over them as King. Life will be as it was pre-lapsarian.



That's very similar to my view.


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## Rich Barcellos (Jan 27, 2006)

1. I suppose somewhat similar to now. What I mean by heaven here is not the heaven of heaven (God's special place of manifesting Hismelf) but the expance above the earth.
2. Rev. 21:3, 5ff. says on the earth. Christ is God's tabernacle who sits on the throne.

The new heaven and the new earth will be like the heaven of heaven in the past I think.


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## Scott (Jan 27, 2006)

Do you interpret Rev. 21 literally (i.e. a literal description of a physical city)? I am not inclined that way. Seems to me that it is the Church? I think Heb. 11:22 equates the heavenly Jerusalem with the Church. 

Scott


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## Rich Barcellos (Jan 27, 2006)

No, not a physical city. The New Jerusalem is the church. I suppose you asked me that because of my answer to our throne question. Will Christ be on a literal throne in the eternal state? I know there will be a throne (Rev. 22:3) but just what that throne is constituted of, I do not know.


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## Peter (Jan 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> In my understanding, all the saints will be on the renewed earth and Christ will reign over them as King. Life will be as it was pre-lapsarian.



Adam did not have confirming grace, and Christ is said to deliver the kingdom over to God at the end, though I m not sure exactly what this means.


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## Scott (Jan 27, 2006)

Rich: What is heaven - now and after the resurrection (if it differs)? Where is it?


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## Rich Barcellos (Jan 27, 2006)

Heaven is where Christ is now. I don't know where that is spacially. After His coming again, heaven is where He is.


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