# Romans 11 & The Multiplicity of Israel



## VERITAS (Jan 21, 2005)

*Paul* agreed to discuss Romans 11 with me in a verse-by-verse format, but anyone (and everyone) is welcomed to contribute. I'm hoping that *Fred* might make an appearance (since he's the sole reason I signed up for the PuritanBoard).

Ok, here's my premises:

1) The term "Israel" - including the individuals that comprise "Israel" - are used in a multiplicity of ways by the apostle. Sometimes referring to *Israel in a GENERIC sense*, sometimes referring to *UNBELIEVING Israel* and sometimes referring *ONLY to those in Israel who BELIEVE*. Of course there is some overlapping.

2) The apostle's use of the *CONDITIONAL, Subjunctive Mood* is also significant to the discussion. From my perspective "HOW" a person is saved.

Most people think that Romans 11 is addressing the WHEN of Salvation, but I disagree and believe that Scripture is addressing the HOW of Salvation. It is then from this point that one determines the WHO being referred to. If their reasoning is from the WHEN perspective then the answer to the question is some distant future point and their WHO must be ethnic Israel, but if their reasoning is from the HOW perspective then the answer to the question is that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone and the "Israel" that is to be saved are the people of God, regardless of ethnicity or previous religion, throughout all ages.

3) The reference to "the Coming of The Deliverer" is NÃ˜T something that is to occur in the future. It is something that the apostle Paul is pointing to that happened to in the past, with the First Advent. Thus it is THROUGH faith in Christ's First Coming that Jacob/Israel/the people of God are saved (the HOW of the occasion). This is WHEN a person's sins are taken away - when they believe. And this is the only way and means of Salvation - for "Jew" or "Gentile." 

So, with that said I wanted to post a color-coded version of Romans 11 and address the multiple ways that the people of God are referred to in the text. The color format may be a little tedious to get used to but I think that ultimately it will save time. The alternative would be to put the various designations in brackets following the usage - e.g. Elijah [believing Israelite].

*Interpretative Key:*
(there is some overlapping)

*BLUE = Israel in a Generic sense*
*RED = Unbelieving Israel*
*GREEN = Believing Israel*

Underline = The Sovereign Act(s) of God

*Orange = Conditional, Subjunctive Mood*



> {1} I say then, has God Cast Away *His people*? Certainly NÃ˜T! For I also am an *Israelite*, of *the seed of Abraham*, of *the tribe of Benjamin*.
> 
> {2} God Has NÃ˜T Cast Away *His people* whom He Foreknew. Or do you NÃ˜T know what the Scripture says of *Elijah*, how he pleads with God against *Israel*, saying,
> 
> ...



Whew! I hope I got all the formatting right!


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## VERITAS (Jan 26, 2005)

shameless bump


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 26, 2005)

I'm confused about your definition of Israel, still...


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## Areopagus (Jan 26, 2005)

Veritas,

I too am fairly confused at your color coding. I'm not confused because of the colors, but because of their placement. For example, you say:




> {7} What then? Israel has NÃ˜T obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. {8} Just as it is written:



You say that Israel in v.7 is in a generic sense, but suddenly it switched to *unbelieving* Israel in the latter part of v.7. How is that? If the latter part of v.7, which is the subject in the former, is the unbelieving Israel, how then does it switch to unbelieving Israel without any provocation or identification by Paul? It seems to me that "the rest" that were blinded are the Israel in the first part of v.7. If so, then the rest of your color coding begins to fall apart. 

Honestly, I looked through it all and I find fault with quite a bit of the color coding. Maybe I'm confused though and you can help clear that up for me.

In Him,

Dustin...


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## VERITAS (Jan 27, 2005)

Hey guys. Thanks for posting something (anything! ). I was hoping *Paul* (or even *Andrew*) would be the first to say something...

Well, as I stated in my opening post I view Rom 11 to be talking about HOW Israel (the elect) are saved and not necessarily WHO is saved or WHEN they are saved (with regards to ethnic Israel; although those elements are certainly there). I think everyone would agree that the difficulty in this chapter is primarily verse 26: "And SO all Israel will be saved..." (but only if we're confused about who is meant by Israel which I believe is also answered elsewhere in the N.T.) And "SO"means: "in this manner". What manner? That which is described both preceding v.26 and IN the verse - i.e. "The Deliverer will come out of Zion and He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob" (that is, the people of God). This isn't some event yet future, but an event almost 2,000 yrs removed from us. It was His first coming and the inauguration of the N.C. that delivered the people of God from bondage and turned away ungodliness.

Make sense?

As for verse 7 I think that is a PERFECT example. It reads:



> What then? *Israel* has NÃ˜T obtained what it seeks; but *the elect* have obtained it, and *the rest* were blinded.



Israel (as a nation) has not obtained what it seeks, that is salvation, a right relationship, peace and reconciliation with God, but the elect (within Israel - and also now people outside of that particular family/nation) has obtained it and the rest (of Israel as a nation, that is the unbelievers) have been spiritually blinded as foretold by the O.T. scriptures. The "obtaining" and the "blinding" are both Sovereign acts BY God through His election of some to salvation and His passing by of others. (Oops. I gave away my position on THAT, huh? :grin: What do you bet *Cheri* that *Paul*'s a supra?)

How else would YOU understand/read that sentence, *Dustin*?

*P.S.* I was prepared to go through this chapter verse-by-verse if the color-coding method didn't make sense, so any reply, lengthy or not, is welcome.

[Edited on 1-27-2005 by VERITAS]


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## VERITAS (Jan 27, 2005)

I have now.  

BTW, I was arguing on another board that the Church IS the new Israel when suddenly I had an epiphany: Israel wasn't Jacob's REAL name, it was a SYMBOLIC name that he was given _by God_ and that by which his offspring became IDENTIFIED with him and thus with God.

Jesus is the Israel being spoken of in Isa 49:3 and it is through identifcation with Him that we are born into the family of God.


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