# Servetus & Calvin - Standford Rives



## brandonadams (Apr 18, 2012)

I have read previous threads on here regarding Calvin & Servetus, but someone sent me an essay by *Standford Rives* that raises some pretty interesting points. Rives has written a rather lengthy book arguing that Calvin murdered (pre-meditated out of hatred) Servetus. Rives is a unitarian, so not everything he says can be trusted, but I'm fairly ignorant of the history and would love some comment on the summary paper:

Servetus & Calvin – standfordrives

particularly regarding:

Calvin's apparent change in attitude regarding the state's role in suppressing heresy (Rives' imputing of murderous motive seems unjustified, but the fact that Calvin drastically changed his position seems clear)
Claim that no other Protestant nation advocated the death penalty for heresy (Rives seems to overstate his case. The Zurich executions of anabaptists comes to mind)
Claim that no law existed in Geneva to put heretics to death
Distinction between blasphemy and heresy in regards to state punishment

I assume that Rives' summary of Calvin's view of the Trinity is an unfair/distorted reading of what Calvin actually said. It also appears clear that Rives is less than honest in his explanation of Servetus' "Cerebus" comment.

Thanks!


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## Marrow Man (Apr 18, 2012)

That sounds like complete ahistorical bunk. Calvin's "premeditation" is absurd for numerous reasons, and point 3 is easily demonstrated to be false.

Here is a link to a blog post I wrote about the issue. It contains a length quote that demonstrates the historical background of the situation. I also had a post which included a short audio file from church history professor James McGoldrick on the issue, but apparently that link has been disabled.

Dispelling One Calvin “Myth” « Gairney Bridge


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## brandonadams (Apr 18, 2012)

Thanks Tim. If you have time, I would love to get some comments in response to Rives that are as detailed as his accusations. Simply pointing to other historians' summaries aren't necessarily helpful in this context. Can you provide me with here I can find the evidence to easily demonstrate point 3 as false?
Thanks


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## Contra_Mundum (Apr 18, 2012)

I wish RSClark's still had his heidelblog (but maybe his WSC site has the material I'm about to mention). I read a post of his in which he reflected on some of other religiously connected executions, in places like Heidelberg and other German cities. He had quotes, as I recall.

These killings were relatively uncommon (at least compared to the papist nations). I really can't think of a proper way to defend them today, only to say that it was a different time and place, with different levels of toleration of social deviance from norms. Public morality reflects social beliefs at some level, and the enforcement of those norms is tied to that morality.

Other than having a similar theological ax to grind, I can't see what would make the recent author's book compelling. Those were the days of theocratic leaven in every place. It was inescapable. There were many more witches executed in Geneva than heretics--and the same types were also executed everywhere else. So, to say that the Protestant societies had no advocacy of the death penalty for various religious crimes (including heresy) seems like a selective reading of history of the period.

Servetus had already been condemned to death by the papists, and was in prison in France. Lo and behold, he somehow walked out, and made it to Geneva (where he had previously been arrested and banished). It has been suggested that he was freed in order to go back (as a condition of release) to Geneva by the Romanists, on behalf of the Perrinists, who were hoping for an intellectual and ecclesiastical challenger to Calvin, to help their side in the power struggle among the political (not ecclesiastical) elites for control of Geneva. Servetus in Geneva would probably be a propaganda victory for Rome, regardless of the outcome.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Apr 20, 2012)

Servetus' execution was the great "Ecumenical Consensus" of the day - Romanists, Lutherans, and Calvinists all supported his execution (see Tim's article). He just happened to be caught in Geneva. He was more of an Arian Michael Moore than an honest church reformer.


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