# WCF XXI vs Augsburg XXIV Defense on Prayer for the Dead



## Solo Christo (May 8, 2005)

*WCF XXI.IV...*
Prayer is to be made for things lawful; and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter: *but not for the dead*, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death. _(emphasis added)_

*Defense of the Augsburg Confession XXIV...*
94] Now, as regards the adversaries' citing the Fathers concerning the offering for the dead, *we know that the ancients speak of prayer for the dead, which we do not prohibit*; but we disapprove of the application ex opere operato of the Lord's Supper on behalf of the dead. Neither do the ancients favor the adversaries concerning the opus operatum. And even though they have the testimonies especially of Gregory or the moderns, 95] we oppose to them the most clear and certain Scriptures. And there is a great diversity among the Fathers. They were men, and could err and be deceived. Although if they would now become alive again, and would see their sayings assigned as pretexts for the notorious falsehoods which the adversaries teach concerning the opus operatum, they would interpret themselves far differently. _(emphasis added)_


Any thoughts?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (May 8, 2005)

Interesting...


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## yeutter (May 9, 2005)

Such prayers in Lutheran circles usually follow the same pattern as is found in the Book of Common Prayer.

"And we also bless thy Holy Name for all thy servants departed this life in faith and fear. Beseeching thee to grant them continual growth in love and service, and to give us grace so to follow their good examples, that with them we may be partakers of thy heavenly kingdom. Grant this O Father for Jesus Christ's sake, our only Mediator and Advocate. Amen."

[Edited on 5-9-2005 by yeutter]


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## Solo Christo (May 9, 2005)

I've never known those in reformed circles to leave wiggle room on this one. Here is what Scripture says on the matter...

*2 Sam 12:21-23*
21 Then his servants said to him, "œWhat is this thing that you have done? You fasted and wept for the child while he was alive; but when the child died, you arose and ate food." 22 He said, "œWhile the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, "˜Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live?´ 23 But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me."

*Luke 16:25,26*
25 But Abraham said, "˜Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.´

*Rev 14:13*
13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying, "œWrite this: Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on." "œBlessed indeed," says the Spirit, "œthat they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow them!"


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## Contra_Mundum (May 9, 2005)

For what should we petition God for the dead? With all due respect to believing Lutherans (or Anglicans) this is like praying for angels (or demons). We don't even know infallibly the eternal condition of individual dead unless we are told in Scripture. For the recently departed, perhaps we may petition God, according to his prominse to "receive this one now into glory, whom we have good reason to hope dies converted..." or some such. But shall I pray the like for my Grandpa, who died in 2001? How about Polycarp? Does he need our prayers? Will they benefit him? How about Joseph, who died in Genesis 50? How do we know what to pray for these persons, or any dead? Can they "grow in love" or "grow in service" as in the prayer cited? Or do they already love and serve to the limit of finite capacity? Whichever you suspect the answer is, _the Bible doesn't tell us._ I like the WCF answer better.


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## Solo Christo (May 9, 2005)

It all started with purgatory, what a mess!


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## ARStager (May 10, 2005)

At my grandpa's funearl last month, the PCUSA minister (generally a shockingly faithful minister in comparison to others in his denom) had some responsive prayers that were sort of indirectly FOR my dead grandpa---but I felt okay about how they were done---though I could be off my rocker.

It was something like this...a series of litanies like:

"Just as You nourished Bob with your word on earth, now nourish him with your presence until the resurrection..."

"Just as You [gave x and y promises and seals of the covenant] on earth, so also seal him up in heaven..."

These aren't perfect examples by any means, but they were prayers that were prayed in faith - so it seemed - that God would do what he said he would do and bring the harvest home, in a sense. They seemed much less like "prayers for the dead" and more like witnesses to the promises passed down and the efficacies of the means of grace, with a humble trust that they were made effectual. 

I'll try and dig up the funeral bullitin and post the prayers to get your responses. 

But obviously just because I felt like they were okay doesn't mean that they were! It just seemed VERY non-Romish


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## Solo Christo (May 11, 2005)

This issue literally just came up. I was planning on meeting tomorrow with a recent acquaintance (believer) to discuss Scripture and doctrine. He called me today to take a raincheck until next week. A close friend of his just passed away after a long bout with cancer. He needed to spend time with the family. 

Before getting off the phone, he asked if I would like to pray with him. I gladly joined him, but emotions became mixed as his prayer began to focus on the state of his friend's soul. When it was my turn to speak I could only ask that God be glorified.

This is a very uncomfortable issue and I have much to learn.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (May 11, 2005)

This is an issue of personal relevance to me as well due to the recent death of my brother. Well-meaning but deceived friends have promised my mother that they will subsidize daily masses for his soul for the rest of their lives. My mother (part Roman Catholic and part PCUSA) believes very much in prayers for the dead. This issue has been difficult but necessary for me to address in that context.

For what purpose do some pray for the dead, as Bruce so rightly asked earlier? The WCF in Chap. XXXII teaches us that upon death the souls of believers enter into the presence of God and the souls of unbelievers are cast into hell. Our prayers will not change or improve upon the lot of the deceased. 

There is no purgatory and there is no evolving progression of santification in the afterlife. The dead can not be baptised as do the Mormons. Thus, such prayers, masses and baptisms are vain and superstitious, and above all unBiblical. 

We are to pray for the living as our Confession teaches. Not for the dead.


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