# Battling the idea "be who are you"?



## arapahoepark (Aug 10, 2022)

This is probably a very broad idea to tackle but in light of some recent stories shared with me I am wondering how can battle this idea.
What are some modern philosophical resources or arguments (not just Biblical resources @RamistThomist ) that combat the whole notion that everyone should be themselves and should be included, more specifically trans people. Has anyone written about this more in-depth?
I am finding it is very emotionally driven and its hard to argue against the notion of inclusion.


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## Alan D. Strange (Aug 10, 2022)

@arapahoepark

Trent, I would certainly start with Carl Trueman's _Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution_, if you've not read that.

Peace,
Alan

​

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## Stephen L Smith (Aug 11, 2022)

I second the recommendation Carl Trueman's Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self. Gene Veith's book 'Post Christian' nicely complements Trueman's book.

I believe the 'identity' question opens the door to the gospel. Those defending transgenderism argue that the body is mistaken, hence the desire to change genders. But if the body is mistaken what makes the trans person think the mind is NOT mistaken? I think this presents opportunities to show the folly of a godless epistemology. 

Taking this a step further, demonstrating that the identity problem is resolved when one is in Christ is a comforting and mind affirming gospel truth. Being united with Christ brings rest to the human heart and mind, more importantly it makes a person right with God. 'Therefore if anyone is in Christ, _he is _a new creation; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.' 2 Cor 5:17

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## RamistThomist (Aug 11, 2022)

Trueman


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## Taylor (Aug 11, 2022)

I agree with what has been said here already, namely, that Trueman is the best source for this issue. However, one of my frustrations with his work in this area is that, while his _analysis_ is remarkable, he offers little to no _answers_. He was one of the speakers at this year's Greenville Conference. I remember being astounded by his analysis of our modern situation, but I was astoundingly disappointed in the fact that he gave no solutions. Not even offering the gospel! He essentially shrugged and concluded (and I paraphrase), "This is how it is; get used to it," and then walked off stage. Of course, offering solutions may not have been within the scope of his work, but I found this to be a severe defect for the work of a churchman.

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## retroGRAD3 (Aug 11, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I agree with what has been said here already, namely, that Trueman is the best source for this issue. However, one of my frustrations with his work in this area is that, while his _analysis_ is remarkable, he offers little to no _answers_. He was one of the speakers at this year's Greenville Conference. I remember being astounded by his analysis of our modern situation, but I was astoundingly disappointed in the fact that he gave no solutions. Not even offering the gospel! He essentially shrugged and concluded (and I paraphrase), "This is how it is; get used to it," and then walked off stage. Of course, offering solutions may not have been within the scope of his work, but I found this to be a severe defect for the work of a churchman.


This hits the nail right on the head. I have the same frustrations with Trueman. Another example would be the wokism that is going on at the college he teaches at. He can talk about the subject all day long, but when it's actually in his own back yard it's either denial or no response.

I don't think he personally ever said anything about the Byrd situation either.

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## arapahoepark (Aug 11, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I agree with what has been said here already, namely, that Trueman is the best source for this issue. However, one of my frustrations with his work in this area is that, while his _analysis_ is remarkable, he offers little to no _answers_. He was one of the speakers at this year's Greenville Conference. I remember being astounded by his analysis of our modern situation, but I was astoundingly disappointed in the fact that he gave no solutions. Not even offering the gospel! He essentially shrugged and concluded (and I paraphrase), "This is how it is; get used to it," and then walked off stage. Of course, offering solutions may not have been within the scope of his work, but I found this to be a severe defect for the work of a churchman.


Indeed. I read Trueman when it first came out so I guess I'll have to revisit it. I felt the same way. Maybe I will have to get creative on the solution as a scour through the book.


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## Alan D. Strange (Aug 11, 2022)

Taylor said:


> Of course, offering solutions may not have been within the scope of his work, but I found this to be a severe defect for the work of a churchman.


In my review of Carl's book (in the _Mid-America Journal of Theology_, 2021, pp. 214-216), recognizing your consternation here, Taylor, I concluded with these three paragraphs: 

Trueman’s purpose in this book is to help church-goers not simply to throw up their hands and express utter bewilderment at the current and all-pervasive irrationality on every hand. He argues that it has been a long time in the making (one could arguably go back further than Rousseau). While it does tend to render discourse hard if not impossible, the expressive individualism of the hour has been on its way for a while now, in law (he discusses crucial Supreme Court cases), in the humanities, the arts, and everywhere. Heraclitus has triumphed. This has been so in intellectual culture, and popular culture is now catching up with it. Or so it seems. Trueman does seem ready to conclude that something has happened that has irreparably changed if not damaged us. Perhaps so. But that is a sociological observation, not a historical one. It is too early for a historian to tell.

Only time will tell how widespread our current mania is. And how truly deep. One might also guess that many are parroting certain things that they do not believe and that the house of cards may come down to make contemporary convictions seem absurd. Trueman does offer a few suggestions at the end (402–407): he urges the church to note the connection between aesthetics and core beliefs and practice; to be a real embodied community; and for Protestants to recover both natural law and a high view of the physical body. He concludes by noting that much that may be sought as precedent for these times is likely not and that perhaps the best antecedent is the second-century church, which was “a marginal sect within a dominant pluralist society” (406).

None of us, of course, knows what the future holds, but, trite as it may sound, we know who holds the future. We know that if what God said to Israel in exile was true, how much more for us: “For I know the plans I have for you, declares the Lord, plans for welfare and not for evil, to give you a future and a hope” (Jer. 29:11). It does not look that way by sight, certainly not now, but we walk by faith, and we know that he will complete in us, his church, that good work that he earlier began. He will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. The church is always called to this and not to give way to fear. Perhaps more than anything else, the call of the hour for those of us in Christ is to walk not in fear as dangers accumulate but in faith as we look to our faithful Lord and Savior.

Peace,
Alan

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## itsreed (Aug 11, 2022)

Alan D. Strange said:


> @arapahoepark
> 
> Trent, I would certainly start with Carl Trueman's _Rise and Triumph of the Modern Self: Cultural Amnesia, Expressive Individualism, and the Road to Sexual Revolution_, if you've not read that.
> 
> ...


Maybe _Strange New World _before/after to help the digestion process.


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## alexanderjames (Aug 11, 2022)

itsreed said:


> Maybe _Strange New World _before/after to help the digestion process.


Is strange new world just a condensed version of the book?


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## arapahoepark (Aug 11, 2022)

alexanderjames said:


> Is strange new world just a condensed version of the book?


Yes

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## itsreed (Aug 11, 2022)

alexanderjames said:


> Is strange new world just a condensed version of the book?


Its written at a popular level. Same arguments as _Triumph_, less development materials.

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## Jerusalem Blade (Aug 11, 2022)

I think it sufficient that Trueman wrote what he did (I've only read _Strange New World _— too busy for his bigger book), giving an analysis of the strange new world (i.e., "strong delusion", 2 Thess 2:11) we are in the midst of. He is preparing us for the fierce and wicked dystopian world to come, in which the devil has his "little season" (Rev 20:3) that shall purify the saints in its crucible, before the glorious appearing of our King (Titus 2:13).

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## Jake (Aug 12, 2022)

I found Trueman's book very enlightening and well worth the read. I share the concern that there was not as much of a conclusion as I would like. He does make some points in the section at the very end of the book called "Concluding Unscientific Prologue," but it's clear even from this title that he has not given this area as much thought as I agree with Taylor a churchman should.

In the section of this prologue, "Whither the Church?" he lays out three points:

1. The church should reflect on the connection between aesthetics and her core beliefs and practices (which he notes is by an appropriate commitment to Christianity as first and foremost doctrinal)
2. The church must be a community (especially because our moral consciousness is very much shaped by our community, cf. I Cor 15:33)
3. Protestants need to recover both natural law and a high view of the physical body. 

He makes other comments as well, particular relating that we are more like in a 2nd century world where the church was a marginal sect in a pluralistic society. 

In this chapter Trueman also suggests two other books that I think may be helpful to addressing both the OP question and then what we go and do as Christians: Christless Christianity by Michael Horton and No Place for Truth by David Wells. Others are suggested too, but I've read these and think they're relevant.

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## chuckd (Aug 28, 2022)

Trueman wrote an article in World last issue. _The twisted self, Feelings as truth. Sex as destiny. The new cultural orthodoxy and how we got here_








The twisted self


Feelings as truth. Sex as destiny. The new cultural orthodoxy and how we got here



wng.org

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