# Rick Warren's Message at the 2010 Desiring God National Conference



## ACBRown (Oct 5, 2010)

So I don't know if you've had a chance to listen to Rick Warren's message yet, but I must say that I was a little surprised. It was solid. This of course doesn't mean that I'm always thrilled with his philosophy of ministry, but, like I said, it was a good message.

Check it out, if you're curious. And what did you think of it?

Link

P.S. The image at the top of my website is not a picture of Jesus. It is John the Baptist. I just wanted to clarify


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## he beholds (Oct 5, 2010)

What a cool blog. I put it on my dashboard and hope to come back to it when I've got time to listen to something. Thanks for the links and the reviews.


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## jayce475 (Oct 5, 2010)

ACBRown said:


> The image at the top of my website is not a picture of Jesus. It is John the Baptist. I just wanted to clarify



Oh I see, so that's what John the baptist looked like!


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 5, 2010)

ACBRown said:


> what did you think of it?



I didn't think it was "solid" at all. His use of Scripture to propose a kind of "God will bless you if you work hard at developing your mind and having an appropriate amount of imagination..." reminded me of the theology of Job's friends. There's Truth intermingled with serious error about the proper interpretation of several of the passages he cited.

He all but states explicitly that the growth of his ministry is due to the fact that they have the Biblical imagination to dream big dreams.


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## ACBRown (Oct 5, 2010)

Thanks, Jessica. I hope it serves you well. That's basically why I do it, to provide others with a quick and easy way to sift through all the stuff out there (well, not _ALL _the stuff).

Cheers,

Austin

---------- Post added at 06:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------

Semper,

I understand what you're saying, but I think if it is given a sympathetic shake, the concerns you raised aren't necessarily problems. Take for example the whole dream big thing. I think it's fairly evident that Warren would attribute growth to God's grace. I don't think he would deny that. Rather he was stressing our need to, well, yes, think big. Take Saddleback's dream of sending missionaries to every nation. That's pretty awesome. Would that have happened had they not sought such an end? I doubt it.

I will say, however, that I grimaced a bit when he talked about not resisting sin, but replacing it (with a righteous thought/focus/desire). There again, I think a charitable "reading" of his point wouldn't elicit the cry, "Heresy!" but then again, it probably isn't the wisest choice of words. 

I don't know, I thought the message was by and large fine, and I was a bit surprised at how much I enjoyed it... but maybe that's because my expectations were very low.


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## christiana (Oct 5, 2010)

Even Satan can transform himself into an angel of light, whereby the unwary will fall prey to his words!


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## ACBRown (Oct 5, 2010)

Christina, 

That's true, but ouch! Are you saying that Rick Warren is diabolical? Did you listen to the message? What is your take?


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## jayce475 (Oct 6, 2010)

Listening to Rick Warren was as painful as listening to this guy named Kong Hee who founded the first megachurch in Singapore. It becomes so evident that these guys know their stuff as I listen to their messages, but yet they choose to put in a bit of poison here and there for whatever reason. 

The part on skills is a nicer way of framing his pragmatic approaches. Is your church not growing? Come follow church growth 101 and help to grow the kingdom of God. Come on...

Is there too much teaching in American Christianity? "It’s because we’re teaching too much." Really? 

The part on imagination is patently unbiblical and not backed up properly by scriptures. I agree with Rich. No Austin, it is not awesome to have missionaries in every part of the world unless it is what God directed and the ministry is truly faithful to the Word. 

Everytime he talks about "doing", it's as though people as chanting at the back "church growth, church growth, church growth". Holiness seems like an afterthought.

With that said, the rest of what he said seemed alright to me. But the way that he puts together everything makes it difficult to chew the meat and spit out the bones. In essence, he's teaching us to be teachable, willing to self-learn and prayerful. Very good reminders. Unfortunately, this message may also win many immature "New Calvinists" over to Warren's world where church growth (in his sense) is foremost and pragmatism reigns. "Oh Warren doesn't seem as bad as what Rev X says it is." "Yeah, precisely. We should all learn how to APPLY like him and maybe our church won't be so small." And the slide begins. Thanks Piper.

This is precisely what the doctrine of biblical separation is for.


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## christiana (Oct 6, 2010)

ACBRown said:


> Christina,
> 
> That's true, but ouch! Are you saying that Rick Warren is diabolical? Did you listen to the message? What is your take?



No, just something to consider though, to ponder. We must use discernment and discretion with any speaker.


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## ACBRown (Oct 6, 2010)

Thanks for the thoughtful interaction, Jason. 

You know, I can't help but agree with what you're saying on many levels. My personal experience with megachurch philosophy/life has left a very bitter taste in my mouth. So much of it is shallow. Terribly shallow and God dishonoring. Maybe my more sympathetic "reading" of Warren in this message stems from the fact that I know so little of him. Maybe my perspective would change considerably if I was more familiar with him. Maybe so. 

That being said, I still think we need to be careful of overkill. Take the "Too much teaching in America thing." I took him to mean that we need to practice what we learn. Now granted, there may very well be a truckload of megachurch 101 presuppositions in that statement, but then again, maybe he was just stressing the need to get out and actually engage. And if he wants to downplay the crucial place of biblical exposition, then yes, I have a serious problem with the statement.

As for Piper, I would be careful sniping him. He's been a tremendous blessing to many people, not least me. He carefully weighed the decision to invite him. He spoke with him. He voiced areas of concern. But he believed that Warren had the Gospel right. And so he invited him. I personally appreciate Piper's inviting Christians of differing persuasions to speak at the conferences. I think it's healthy for us to look beyond the walls of our denomination... so long as the fundamentals are in place. That being said, here's what Piper said in a Q&A in Christianity Today:

"*You received some negative feedback for inviting him.*

It was real risky. I don't even know if I did the right thing. If somebody said, "Are you sure you should have invited him?" "No." I think the first thing I'd say—maybe the only thing—is I think he's been slandered. I think we probably need to work harder at getting him right."

Q&A: John Piper on 'Think' | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction


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## Romans922 (Oct 6, 2010)

he beholds said:


> What a cool blog. I put it on my dashboard and hope to come back to it when I've got time to listen to something. Thanks for the links and the reviews.




But baptist in everyway...


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## Marrow Man (Oct 6, 2010)

At presbytery this week, the members of the committee I am on viewed a video made by a group in Australia. There are people starving for the gospel there, but what amazed me is that the group talked about the same megachurch philosophy that is often seen in this country has gone to Australia as well. Very large churches where the pastor never speaks of sin and God just wants to be your friend. It was very clear that this group just wanted to hear the world faithfully preached and yet this is the garbage that's out there. It would just about make you cry.


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## ACBRown (Oct 6, 2010)

TE Andrew... Um, Baptist, sir? Please. I'm a deacon in the RPCNA. That is not Baptist. But yes, I do listen to a wide variety of Christians.


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## caoclan (Oct 6, 2010)

I listened to the entirety of Warren's message today... absolutely disgraceful. Said that sin was a result of "wrong thinking." Don't think his doctrine of man conforms with the reformed theology he claims to possess. His "dream big" nonsense was just more of the purpose driven disaster. Twisted Scripture as he is well known for and quoted at least 5 or 6 different translations to make the Bible say what he wanted it to say. Shameful, and never should have been given that platform. And Warren's church is hosting the west coast DG conference. Disappointing... I hope something changes for the better.


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## Ivan (Oct 7, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> > What a cool blog. I put it on my dashboard and hope to come back to it when I've got time to listen to something. Thanks for the links and the reviews.
> ...


 
Excuse me?


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## Herald (Oct 7, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> But baptist in everyway...



And your point is?


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## JonathanHunt (Oct 7, 2010)

Pirate Christian Radio reviewed the sermon and described it as thoroughly pelagian. I found the argument quite persuasive.


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## Staphlobob (Oct 7, 2010)

I could only listen to so much. I had to turn it off when he began saying that being faithful and not successful was wrong. He confused "success" with "fruitfulness." What is his definition of "success"? From what I can tell it means having a large church. It seems that's what it means to be fruitful.

GIGO


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## tlharvey7 (Oct 7, 2010)

I openly wept while driving listening to RW's "lecture"
why? because godly men who should know better are not calling him out.
why? because of the awful twisting of scripture.
as far as his personality and preaching style, i don't like the man... so i guess i have a biased opinion

it was horrible... i am sorry, but it was not a biblical message ie: "your making bad choices because your believing wrongly"
i have never really listened to or given much thought to RW in the past (with the exception of that stupid thing he said on Hannity and Combs about "trying" Jesus for 60 days) but he is not correctly dividing the word.


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## Romans922 (Oct 7, 2010)

Herald said:


> And your point is?




My point is that the blogger needs to become Presbyterian....


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## Pilgrim Standard (Oct 7, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > And your point is?
> ...


 
Andrew please... that is a heavy charge is it not? He is a member of the RPCNA.
Perhaps I am misunderstanding, but it seems that we may need to be a bit more careful with our wording?


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## Gforce9 (Oct 7, 2010)

JonathanHunt said:


> Pirate Christian Radio reviewed the sermon and described it as thoroughly pelagian. I found the argument quite persuasive.


 
I could not find a link on PCR's website......I would like to read or hear it.


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## Marrow Man (Oct 7, 2010)

Gforce9 said:


> JonathanHunt said:
> 
> 
> > Pirate Christian Radio reviewed the sermon and described it as thoroughly pelagian. I found the argument quite persuasive.
> ...


 

Try this link, Greg: Fighting for the Faith: Rick Warren's Lecture at Desiring God Conference


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## Herald (Oct 7, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> My point is that the blogger needs to become Presbyterian....



What a coincidence. I was just thinking that you need to become a Baptist.


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## he beholds (Oct 7, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> > What a cool blog. I put it on my dashboard and hope to come back to it when I've got time to listen to something. Thanks for the links and the reviews.
> ...



What?? He's RP. 



Herald said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > My point is that the blogger needs to become Presbyterian....
> ...


 
Yeah, I'm Presbyterian, but I think something weird is going on...

---------- Post added at 02:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 PM ----------

And, even if he WAS Baptist, I'd still be fine following his blog. Dever and Piper are Baptist and I listen to their SERMONS. (Oh the horror, I know.)


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## ACBRown (Oct 7, 2010)

Thanks for the audio review of Warren's message. I plan on listening to it tomorrow.

As for the general consensus among my Reformed brothers here, well, what can I say? I'll take it to heart. When I listened to the message, it didn't strike me as terrible. But like I said, I went in with low expectations and found myself a bit surprised. 

I plan on posting on the other messages over the next couple of days. There are a couple worthy of your attention.

All the best,

Austin


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## baron (Oct 8, 2010)

tlharvey7 said:


> I openly wept while driving listening to RW's "lecture"
> why? because godly men who should know better are not calling him out.



Is there any one at the confrencee who objected to his teaching? Or is it still Doctrine divides so every one is to play nice.


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## Gforce9 (Oct 8, 2010)

Marrow Man said:


> Gforce9 said:
> 
> 
> > JonathanHunt said:
> ...


 
Thank you, Pastor Phillips! I hope to give a listen to that today. I do find it interesting how much humanism has crept into the church in our time......quite frightening.


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## ACBRown (Oct 8, 2010)

Well, I listened to the "Fighting for the Faith" podcast, and I must say that I was tremendously disappointed. Even if half of what he said is accurate, the manner in which he critiqued Rick Warren was shameful.

Rather ironically, while the theology and “purpose-driven-mega-pragmatic-model” of Saddleback is denounced, it is done so in an equally, if not more, discreditable way. We don’t want to trade one circus act for another. We don’t need more Jon Stewarts and Rush Limbaughs. Certainly not in the church.

Yes, there were some poor elements to Warren’s lecture, some areas that are open to genuine criticism, but “unadulterated Pelagianism?” There needs to be clear evidence for this charge, otherwise it is slanderous. And the things the host would point at and yell, “Pelagian!!!” were anything but conclusive. Some were normal admonitions to do something, as though imperatives prove that one is a Pelagian. It often felt like a witch hunt.

In a nutshell, I believe it was a largely undignified and hyper-critical handling of Warren. (And please remember that I am not a Warren advocate. I’m not even a fan. I suspect I know what he’s about, but I’m not sure because I haven’t examined him. I just think the message given at the conference wasn’t THAT bad.)


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## reformedcop (Oct 9, 2010)

Here is another perspective from James White's appearance on No Compromise Radio.


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## Staphlobob (Oct 9, 2010)

reformedcop said:


> Here is another perspective from James White's appearance on No Compromise Radio.


 
A very good interview. But James White was forced to listen to Warren. Warren's platitudes (and his pride) was making White upset and frustrated at having to listen to that drivel. I can only agree.


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## kalawine (Oct 10, 2010)

---------- Post added at 11:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 PM ----------




Semper Fidelis said:


> ACBRown said:
> 
> 
> > what did you think of it?
> ...



DITTO Semper... I agree...

---------- Post added at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:00 PM ----------




Romans922 said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > And your point is?
> ...



Do you mean, like, truly reformed?


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## relostuff (Oct 10, 2010)

Joshua said:


> ACBRown said:
> 
> 
> > The image at the top of my website is not a picture of Jesus.
> ...


 
Man I was just hoping to see a picture of Jesus

---------- Post added at 01:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 AM ----------

Why would a Good Reformed re-Baptists like John Piper allow a man like Warren to speak at such of a event. Where were the Elders? Where was the Presbyter?


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## Herald (Oct 10, 2010)

relostuff said:


> Why would a Good Reformed re-Baptists like John Piper allow a man like Warren to speak at such of a event. Where were the Elders? Where was the Presbyter?




For the record, John Piper is not a Reformed Baptist, although he is a Baptist that believes in the doctrines of grace. Being a Baptist he has no presbytery to answer to.


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## LawrenceU (Oct 10, 2010)

Marrow Man said:


> At presbytery this week, the members of the committee I am on viewed a video made by a group in Australia. There are people starving for the gospel there, but what amazed me is that the group talked about the same megachurch philosophy that is often seen in this country has gone to Australia as well. Very large churches where the pastor never speaks of sin and God just wants to be your friend. It was very clear that this group just wanted to hear the world faithfully preached and yet this is the garbage that's out there. It would just about make you cry.



Oh, it is everywhere. I have a good friend who travels in ministry over the globe. (No, he is not a money grubber. He is one of the most humble men I've ever met. He is also one of the few men I have ever met whose entire life is broken in grief over the falsehood in the pulpit.) He sees this everywhere. One difference that he notices is that in other countries when truth is proclaimed it is often embraced in repentance, unlike what usually happens here; not by everyone, but my many.


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## kvanlaan (Oct 10, 2010)

The group from Australia, is, I am guessing, Hillsong church. I've seen some of their sermons (I say 'their' because his wife 'co-pastors' with him). Look for his talks on how God doesn't want you to be poor...


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## Marrow Man (Oct 10, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> The group from Australia, is, I am guessing, Hillsong church.



Are they in Sydney? I think that's where the church is located.


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## LawrenceU (Oct 10, 2010)

Marrow Man said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> > The group from Australia, is, I am guessing, Hillsong church.
> ...



They have a congregation in Sydney. They have branched out all over the world.


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## Zenas (Oct 10, 2010)

Didn't Rick Warren advocate for Ba'al worship and human sacrifice?


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## MichaelLofton (Oct 11, 2010)

I stopped watching it when he said something along the lines of Jesus went to the cross because he would rather die than live without you. That was probably the most degrading thing one could say about Jesus and His work on the cross. His work on the cross was to glorify His Father and demonstrate mercy, grace and love toward wicked sinners, not because he had a warm fuzzy feeling in his heart towards them. Additionally, it was filled with misapplications of Scriptures and self help moralistic points. I didn't hear anything in his message that a mormon or a Jehovah's Witness couldn't teach and when that is the case, you should know something is wrong.


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