# Ubiquity of Christ?



## RamistThomist (Oct 5, 2005)

I heard this was a Lutheran doctrine. In short, what is it?


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## wsw201 (Oct 5, 2005)

It is a Lutheran doctrine and has to do with Christ being present primarily in the Lord's Supper (Consubstantiation).


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## fredtgreco (Oct 5, 2005)

there is a good article somewhere (can't find it now) by F.N. Lee on the Ubiquity of Christ.


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## Saiph (Oct 5, 2005)

Is it this one Fred ?

http://www.dr-fnlee.org/docs5/non_transub/non_transub.html


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## fredtgreco (Oct 5, 2005)

No. This has some of the material, but what I had (or thought I had) was a full length word doc on just the subject at hand. It was titled something like "The Ubiquity of Christ"


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I recall from reading Mueller, the ubiquity of Christ means that Christ is omnipresent PHYSICALLY as well as SPIRITUALLY.


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## fredtgreco (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> Correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I recall from reading Mueller, the ubiquity of Christ means that Christ is omnipresent PHYSICALLY as well as SPIRITUALLY.



Exactly. And hence the Lutheran doctrine of Consubstantiation that the Reformed reject.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
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> > _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
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Yeah, but what I don't understand - and when I asked a Lutheran he just looked at me like I was crazy - is: If Christ is physically OMNIPRESENT then why am I only consuming Christ's body when I consume the Lord's Supper? Why not when I eat pizza on Friday night or when I eat Cheerios for breakfast? It seems like Christ is only omnipresent in a very localized and specific way... and only at certain times!


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## Peter (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
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> > _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
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Hence denial of Christ's true humanity.


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## crhoades (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
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> > _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
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You just popped a couple of my weaker brain cells...Good argument - that's why I like the PB!


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## fredtgreco (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
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> > _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
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That is because the omnipresence is not one of being present in all things, but in all places. The Lutheran doctrine (which I reject, by the way) is similar to the doctrine of the omnipresence of God. We affirm the omnipresence of God, but that does not result in an Eastern mystical notion of a confusion of the Creator and creature.

The Lutheran would simply say that Christ has the ability to be locally physically present in every places at every time, not that all of creation is a part of Christ.

Does that help?


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## biblelighthouse (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
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> > _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
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Huh?

How many true humans do you know who are physically omnipresent?


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## fredtgreco (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by biblelighthouse_
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> > _Originally posted by Peter_
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Joe,

That is exactly Peter's (and the Reformed) point. To posit that Christ is omnipresent physically is to deny his true humanity.


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## biblelighthouse (Oct 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> 
> That is exactly Peter's (and the Reformed) point. To posit that Christ is omnipresent physically is to deny his true humanity.



Ok . . . I understand . . . I thought Peter was saying that the _Reformed_ view denied Christ's humanity, and that the Lutheran view upheld it. I just misunderstood that to which he was referring.

In any case, I agree with you. The Lutheran view of consubstantiation _is_ a denial of Christ's true humanity.


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## Peter (Oct 6, 2005)




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## Poimen (Oct 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
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> > _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
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*Heidelberg Catechism*

Q46: What do you understand by the words "He ascended into heaven"?
A46: That Christ, in the sight of His disciples, was taken up from the earth into heaven,[1] and continues there in our behalf [2] until He shall come again to judge the living and the dead.[3]

1. Acts 1:9; Matt. 26:64; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:51
2. Heb. 4:14; 7:24-25; 9:11; Rom. 8:34; Eph. 4:10
3. Acts 1:11; 3:20-21; Matt. 24:30

Q47: But is not Christ with us even unto the end of the world,[1] as He has promised?
A47: Christ is true man and true God. According to His human nature He is now not on earth,[2] but according to His Godhead, majesty, grace, and Spirit, He is at no time absent from us.[3]

1. Matt. 28:20
2. Matt. 26:11; John 16:28; 17:11
3. John 14:17-18; 16:13; Eph. 4:8; Matt. 18:20; Heb. 8:4

Q48: But are not, in this way, the two natures in Christ separated from one another, if the manhood is not wherever the Godhead is?
A48: Not at all, for since the Godhead is incomprehensible and everywhere present,[1] it must follow that it is indeed beyond the bounds of the manhood which it has assumed, but is yet nonetheless in the same also, and remains personally united to it.[2]

1. Acts 7:49; Jer. 23:24
2. Col. 2:9; John 1:48; 3:13; 11:15; Matt. 28:6


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