# Just started "Pilgrims Progress"



## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

I am only up to chapter 4 but so far it's everything I've heard it was! I can't believe I've never read it before.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 4, 2005)

say hi to Mr Valiant-for-Truth for me


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

Will do!


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## Bryan (Jul 4, 2005)

Are you reading it in the original english or an update? 

Bryan
SDG


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

I could only find an update.


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## JonathanHunt (Jul 4, 2005)

Well Sir, you are reading my favourite book outside of the Bible.

Enjoy, and be enriched.

JH


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## Puritanhead (Jul 4, 2005)

I first cracked it open-- at a scenic overlook in the middle of a swamp on the intracostal waterway... a bit of nostalgia for me.


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## just_grace (Jul 4, 2005)

*Pilgrims Progress*

I recently bought 'the accurate revised text by Barry E. Horner and am about halfway through, Faithful is busy with talkative at the moment 

Bunyan was a genius


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## Jie-Huli (Jul 4, 2005)

A wonderful book.

I heard before that more copies of Pilgrim's Progress had been sold than any other book in the world, besides the Bible. Does anyone know if this is still the case in the modern era?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 4, 2005)

Adam -- Glad to hear your progress report, Pilgrim! Enjoy!


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Adam -- Glad to hear your progress report, Pilgrim! Enjoy!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jie-Huli_
> A wonderful book.
> 
> I heard before that more copies of Pilgrim's Progress had been sold than any other book in the world, besides the Bible. Does anyone know if this is still the case in the modern era?



Excluding the Bible (and the Koran), _Pilgrim's Progress_ is very high on the list of best selling books, but according to the _Guinness Book of World Records_, the best selling book in history is...the _Guinness Book of World Records_. Incidentally, _The McGuffey's Readers_ are also very high on the list.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

Ok, first question.

Since we don't loose our salvation once we truly repent, who is the man in the iron cage. Part of me expected Christian to compare him to pliable.


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## just_grace (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Ok, first question.
> 
> Since we don't loose our salvation once we truly repent, who is the man in the iron cage. Part of me expected Christian to compare him to pliable.



I believe it's someone who is being chastised by God, a bit like being handed over to devil that he may learn to hate the sin that in his extreme folly he yielded to. I have good reason to believe this.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

The man said he could not repent though.


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## just_grace (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> The man said he could not repent though.



Part of the punishment, men can only repent when God allows. Discipline is not nice at the time but grievous, but afterwards brings forth the peaceable fruit of righteousness.

[Edited on 7-4-2005 by just_grace]


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

So you believe the man was not eternally lost?


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## just_grace (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> So you believe the man was not eternally lost?



Yes. "Show mercy on some, mixed with fear" Jude.


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## Texas Aggie (Jul 4, 2005)

Loved Pilgrims Progress. I also enjoyed the "Strait Gate" by Bunyan and would recommend this work as well.

Anyone else taken a look at this? Any thoughts?


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## just_grace (Jul 4, 2005)

*Tulip...*

While I hold to the belief that TULIP is correct, I still think that a born again person can be damned by God the Father, but it is a very difficult area to talk about because it is very complex. I refer to the parable of the unfaithful servant. It talks about severe and less severe beatings according to light received, Jesus also talked about some people who have things taken away from them, 'even what they think they have' etc etc...it's not an area that you see discussed very much but I think it's important.

Lord have mercy.

[Edited on 7-5-2005 by just_grace]


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 4, 2005)

> While I hold to the belief that TULIP is correct, I still think that a born again person can be damned


In all charity, this is like trying to mix oil and water. The positions are incompatible. Something must give or be modified.


Adam, 
Some of the "people" in the narrative are living-pictures, for example various virtues and vices, Evangelist. Not every individual is meant to portray an actual story character who is trekking the same path as (or a different one from) Christian (though some are, like Hopeful and Faithful). Thus also, the man in the cage (in my opinion).


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## just_grace (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> 
> 
> > While I hold to the belief that TULIP is correct, I still think that a born again person can be damned
> ...



I agree. For me it's a paradox.


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## Justbob (Jul 4, 2005)

Matt,

I have not read that but I really enjoyed Holy War. I read an 1856 copy and than a 2002 copy. I have have also read both an 1854 copy and a more recent verson of Pilgrims Progress. Everything that I have read of Bunyans I have enjoyed and profited from


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## Michael Butterfield (Jul 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Ok, first question.
> 
> Since we don't loose our salvation once we truly repent, who is the man in the iron cage. Part of me expected Christian to compare him to pliable.



When reading Pilgrims Progress you have to keep in mind that the people in the "way" are only representative of what any pilgrim would meet with along the way. So, the man in the Iron Cage is not necessarily a Christian. The man by his own admission was a Heb. 6 and 10 "œprofessor" of the faith to use the old Puritan nomenclature. The man in the iron cage quoted both passages. He had a said faith and not a real faith. The Puritans would have seen Heb 6 and 10 as a warning passage conducive to perseverance. Even by the words of the Interpreter we see this. He says, "œLet this man´s Misery be remembered by thee, and be an everlasting Caution to thee." I cannot believe that this man is either a believer or a believer who would not repent.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 5, 2005)

Thanks for the feedback all! It's why I love this place.


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## Michael Butterfield (Jul 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by just_grace_
> While I hold to the belief that TULIP is correct, I still think that a born again person can be damned by God the Father, . . . .
> 
> Lord have mercy.
> ...



Not a paradox, but a full blown contradiction! You cannot believe TULIP and hold to a falling away of the believer, i.e., a damned believer. If you hold that you no longer have TULIP you have TULI, which is translated to lie.


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## just_grace (Jul 5, 2005)

*Paradox*

This is my problem then, how can I reconcile the parable of the unfaithful servant with strict Calvinistic teaching.

"Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom his master has set over his household, to give them their food at the proper time? Blessed is that servant whom his master will find so doing when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions. But if that wicked servant says to himself, 'My master is delayed,' and begins to beat his fellow servants[d] and eats and drinks with drunkards, the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the hypocrites. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

I am aware it is a warning and so may never happen.


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## Me Died Blue (Jul 5, 2005)

David, I have given an answer to your question in another thread, so as not to distract from the intent and direction of the present one.


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## just_grace (Jul 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Me Died Blue_
> David, I have given an answer to your question in another thread, so as not to distract from the intent and direction of the present one.



I have just logged on and seen it, thanks I will monitor how it goes. Thanks.


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## Ex Nihilo (Jul 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Jie-Huli_
> ...



Is there a thread anywhere on the McGuffey Readers? I used to read these when I was little. My grandfather had a set of them because we are supposedly related to William Holmes McGuffey. (My grandfather's surname is McGuffee.)

Sorry to get off topic.


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## Michael Butterfield (Jul 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> I am only up to chapter 4 but so far it's everything I've heard it was! I can't believe I've never read it before.



Well, you have just over 99 more times to read it to catch up with Spurgeon!  :bigsmile:  :bigsmile:


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 6, 2005)

I'll never catch up to Spurgeon on anything. (Well, this side of golry anyways!)


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



I don't think there is a thread focused on the McGuffey Readers. I have mentioned them in a few threads, though. If you want to start one, that would be great. I would like to hear others' thoughts on McGuffey. If you are related to him, that's pretty cool!


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