# Geneva Bible & KJV



## jandrusk (Apr 17, 2014)

According to Geneva Bible - The Bible that Changed the World they say, "Recognizing that the Geneva Bible and its notes were undermining the authority of the monarchy, King James I of England commissioned the "Authorized Version," commonly known as the King James Bible, as its replacement. The King James Version did not include any of the inflammatory footnotes, of course, but *it also altered key translations to make them seem more favorable to episcopal and monarchial forms of government*." 

Is this true? If so, does anyone know what specific verses were modified?


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## Justified (Apr 17, 2014)

"This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work." (1 Timothy 3:1) 

For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (Titus 1:7).

All of these among other places. It really threw me off; I even thought of becoming an Episcopalian, until I found out about the insertion of such terms in the KJV.


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## Justified (Apr 17, 2014)

As for the monarchy part, maybe someone could help you out because I don't know.


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## JimmyH (Apr 17, 2014)

"King James I didn’t like the Geneva Bible because he deemed some of its annotations to be subversive of royal authority. Puritans objected to KJV word choices of “church” rather than “congregation” and “bishop” instead of “elder” or “senior.” Those word choices favor Church of England episcopacy over Presbyterian democracy." quoted from a Google search that brought me here .


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## Hemustincrease (Apr 17, 2014)

The KJV removed the word ‘tyrant/s’ and I think also ‘tyranny’ along with all the marginal notes of course.

Example verses:
Isaiah 13:11, Isaiah 49:25, Psalm 54:3 (and I know there are others, at least a couple in Job, but I cannot recall them).


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## reformedminister (Apr 18, 2014)

Justified said:


> "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work." (1 Timothy 3:1)
> 
> For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; (Titus 1:7).
> 
> All of these among other places. It really threw me off; I even thought of becoming an Episcopalian, until I found out about the insertion of such terms in the KJV.


 The English word bishop means overseer or presbyter. The Geneva Bible also uses the word bishop in this passage.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Apr 19, 2014)

King James especially hated the notes in the Geneva where it said refusal to obey ungodly orders from a king is honorable to God.


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## Free Christian (Apr 19, 2014)

Compare these vs in the two versions.
Deuteronomy 33 v 17
Judges 5 v 10
Job 11 v 6
Job 16 v 20
Job 22 v 30
Proverbs 2 v 7
Proverbs 22 v 20
Song of Solomon 3 v 9
Ezekiel 19 v 7
Zechariah 9 v6


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## Free Christian (Apr 21, 2014)

Psalm 8 v 4 to 5 are interesting to compare as well.


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## Justified (Apr 21, 2014)

reformedminister said:


> Justified said:
> 
> 
> > "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work." (1 Timothy 3:1)
> ...


 Ah. Thank you for correcting me brother.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Apr 22, 2014)

The English Hexapla may be a good source for comparison of many of the verses above, as it contains, the Geneva & King James versions in parallel along with the Wiclif, Tyndale, Cranmer, & Anglo-Rhemish versions.
You can view it or download free PDF here https://archive.org/details/englishhexaplaex00schouoft


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## Free Christian (Apr 22, 2014)

Thanks for the link Benjamin. It can be startling the differences in versions when you can view or compare them side by side.


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## One Little Nail (Apr 26, 2014)

reformedminister said:


> Justified said:
> 
> 
> > "This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work." (1 Timothy 3:1)
> ...



King James I of England set a Criteria for the Translation of The KJB, which was a list of 15 Instructions

Rule No. 3 The old ecclesiastical words to be kept, as the word church, not to be translated congregation.

the rest of the list is;

INSTRUCTIONS TO THE TRANSLATORS.

1 The ordinary Bible read in the Church, commonly called the Bishops' Bible, to be followed, and as little altered as the original will permit.

2 The names of the prophets and the holy writers, with the other names in the text, to be retained, as near as may be, accordingly as they are vulgarly used.

3 The old ecclesiastical words to be kept, as the word church, not to be translated congregation.

4 When any word hath divers significations, that to be kept which hath been most commonly used by the most eminent fathers, being agreeable to the propriety of the place and the analogies of faith.

5 The division of chapters to be altered either not at all, or as little as may be, if necessity so require.

6 No marginal notes at all to be affixed, but only for the explanation of the Hebrew or Greek words, which cannot, without some circumlocution, so briefly and fitly be expressed, in the text.

7 Such quotations of places to be marginally set down as shall serve for the fit reference of one Scripture to another.

8 Every particular man of each company to take the same chapter or chapters; and, having translated or amended them severally by himself where he thinks good, all to meet together to confirm what they have done, and agree for their part what shall stand.

9 As any one company hath dispatched any one book in this manner, they shall send it to the rest, to be considered of seriously and judiciously; for his Majesty is very careful on this point.

10 If any company, upon the review of the book so sent, shall doubt or differ upon any places, to send them word thereof, to note the places, and therewithal to send their reasons; to which if they consent not, the difference to be compounded at the general meeting, which is to be of the chief persons of each company, at the end of the work.

11 When any place of special obscurity is doubted of, letters to be directed by authority to send to any learned man in the land for his judgment of such a place.

12 Letters to be sent from every bishop to the rest of his clergy, admonishing them of this translation in hand, and to move and charge as many as, being skillful in the tongues, have taken pains in that kind, to send their particular observations to the company, either at Westminster, Cambridge, or Oxford, according as it was directed before in the king's letter to the archbishop.

13 The directors in each company to be the Deans of Westminster and Chester, for Westminster, and the king's professors in Hebrew and Greek in the two universities.

14 These translations to be used, when they agree better with the text than the Bishops' Bible: Tyndale's, Coverdale's, Matthew's [Rogers'], Whitchurch's [Cranmer's], Geneva.

15 By a later rule, "three or four of the most ancient and grave divines, in either of the universities, not employed in translating, to be assigned to be overseers of the translation, for the better observation of the fourth rule."

Heres a link to History of the King James Version containing the 15 rules.


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## One Little Nail (Apr 26, 2014)

Having said the above, I would still venture to say that the KJB is a superior translation to the Geneva Bible, both were 
translated by a committee, though the KJB translators were more numerous & superior scholars which included both establishment men & puritans whereas the Geneva was only a done by puritan type persons, which brought a balance to the work.

both built their work on previous translations, like Tyndales brilliant work, & other C of E translations like cranmers Great Bible for the Geneva, the Great Bible & the Bishop's for the KJB. 

I think off hand that the Geneva used the 1550 Stephanus Textus Receptus ( apparently just like the NKJV) though they did have later translations so I don't know whether they used a latter TR for this or that just the notes were changed, whilst the KJB predominately used Beza's 1598 TR, which differed very little from the Stephanus text.


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