# Primitive baptist and their theology



## Mayflower (Apr 20, 2007)

Can anyone explaim me what the difference is between the primitive baptist and foreample strict baptist or reformed baptist ?

Are there churches most in the U.S or also like Europe (have never seen or hear about it here in the Netherlands)

Do they hold to the 5 pionts of calvinisme ?


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## Jimmy the Greek (Apr 20, 2007)

This overview at Theopedia may be helpful.


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## Coram Deo (Apr 20, 2007)

They are Similiar to Reformed Baptist except they hold to a third sacrament (Foot washing), They do not believe in Sunday School, Bible Tracts, and Bible Societies as all being new and not in scripture... They also do not have musical instruments but some reformed baptist are going that way....

Some primitive baptist today are stepped into hyper calvinism...

I also believe there might be a issue with the Sabbath with some of them, as some only meet one Sunday each month....

Michael



Mayflower said:


> Can anyone explaim me what the difference is between the primitive baptist and foreample strict baptist or reformed baptist ?
> 
> Are there churches most in the U.S or also like Europe (have never seen or hear about it here in the Netherlands)
> 
> Do they hold to the 5 pionts of calvinisme ?


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## Mayflower (Apr 20, 2007)

Thanks Gomarus & thunaer the information was helpfull.

Are they like landmark churches ?


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## AV1611 (Apr 20, 2007)

Talk to JM...Jason I am sure he will have sources galore! My only offer is this link (which JM gave me)

http://primitivebaptist.info/mambo//component/option,com_frontpage/Itemid,1/


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## MrMerlin777 (Apr 20, 2007)

Mayflower said:


> Thanks Gomarus & thunaer the information was helpfull.
> 
> Are they like landmark churches ?




Most of them hold to some tennents of Landmarkism from what I understand.

There are alot of Primitive Baptist Churches in the hills where I'm from.

Here is an official website

http://www.primitivebaptist.org/


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## Pilgrim (Apr 20, 2007)

MrMerlin777 said:


> Most of them hold to some tennents of Landmarkism from what I understand.
> 
> There are alot of Primitive Baptist Churches in the hills where I'm from.
> 
> ...



Their ecclesiology being what it is, there cannot be an official website because there is no central organization. However, it may be the official website of a PB church or association. 

Here is another: Primitive Baptist Web Station

It also may be helpful to research the differences between "Missionary" and Primitive Baptists since I think the split between the two over mission boards, seminaries and other issues gave rise to the PB's in the first place.


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## JM (Apr 21, 2007)

The following was sent to me from a PB website:

The Phases of Justification
Justification occurs in three courts and in several phases. The first court is eternal, but the others are temporal and are thus aspects of conditional or “time” salvation. It is on the latter two phases that I shall concentrate in this essay.

1) Eternal Court (which includes the covenant, legal and vital phases of justification) – these sovereign operations of the Trinity, given to all those who are born again, are not based on our merit or our good works:
a) Planning/covenant phase (Father) [Rom 3:24, Rom 5:16, Rom 8:28-33, Eph 1:4, Tit 
3:7]
b) Legal phase (Son) [Rom 3:25, 4:25, Rom 5:9, Rom 5:18, Gal 2:16, Eph 1:7, Col 1:20-
22]
c) Vital phase (Holy Ghost) [Rom 8:15, Tit 3:5]

2) Our Court – the operation of the faith given to us by God upon our regeneration, i.e. justification by faith [Luke 18:14, Rom 1:17, Rom 3:26-31, Rom 4:1-5, Rom 5:1-2, Rom 10:17, Gal 3:8, Gal 3:24-26]

3) The World’s Court – our good works, i.e. justification by works [Tit 3:8, James 2:14-26, 1 John 2:29]

I will consider the Eunuch’s conversion [Acts 8:26-39] because it is an example with which most Christians can identify and because it fits our experiences as well or better than any other conversion story in the NT. Prior to examining this conversion, we should remember and reflect upon our sinful nature. Scripture often reminds us of the fallen state of humanity and that we have no righteousness in us [Isa 64:6, Rom 3:10, Rom 5:12, Ecc 7:20]. Man is so utterly fallen that we cannot and do not (in our natural state) seek the Lord or his righteousness. This is where Calvinists and Primitive Baptists can agree, but where much of the world cannot go because of rampant Arminian doctrine. All men are unjust and deserve both physical death and an eternity in hell. God, who is full of love and great mercy [Titus 3:4-7], determined before the foundation of the world [Eph 1:4] to save an elect people and to justify them through the various operations of the Trinity. One of these operations is regeneration, during which the fallen but elect man is born again and given a measure of faith. This faith can then be acted on during gospel conversion, provided the born again but unconverted person is blessed to hear the gospel and is persuaded to accept it.

I believe this is the state in which Philip found the Eunuch. Here we have an Ethiopian convert to Judaism sitting in his chariot, puzzling over the prophet Isaiah and seeking after spiritual things. While it is impossible to discern how long the Eunuch had been born again, it is apparent that he is the ultimate gentile “seeker,” converting to Judaism in an effort to worship the true God. The Bible teaches that the natural man in his totally depraved condition cannot receive the things of God [1 Cor 2:14, Eph 2:1]. The Eunuch, much like Cornelius and Lydia later in Acts, is exhibiting evidence of already having been quickened by the Holy Ghost. 

The Eunuch was fortunate to hear the gospel truthfully presented. So many of God’s children never hear the gospel presented in truth, and some never hear it at all. The eunuch was persuaded by this gospel and then accepted it as the truth (stating unequivocally “I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God” in v. 37) and was thus saved in a temporal sense. The gospel shines as a light into men’s souls, revealing truth and bringing life and immortality to light [2 Tim 1:10]. There is no remission of sins without the shedding of Christ’s blood and without the application of this blood to our doorpost (the inner man) by the Holy Ghost during regeneration. By no other means except the blood of Christ can man be reconciled with the Father. The eunuch’s statement is an acknowledgement of that fact.

At this point, the eunuch exercises saving faith (and a justifying faith) in a temporal or conditional sense. He was acting upon the faith given to him when he was sealed by the blood of Christ applied by the Holy Ghost to his inner man [Jer 31:34, Isa 54:13, 2 Cor 4:6]. This “saving faith” is also the ultimate evidence to the converted person and to those around him of his eternal salvation. It is temporal and conditional in that it “saves” him in the here and now by showing to himself that he has been washed by the blood of the Lamb and that he stands utterly justified before God. This faith is not the cause of the new birth but the ultimate evidence of the already finished work of the Father, Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost in regeneration [1 John 5:1, Rom 8:15-16]. Many Bible believing Christians confuse the joy that conversion brings with the new birth. The joy that is felt upon conversion in large part comes from the sudden knowledge that the blood of the Lamb has cleansed the terrible stain of sin, and that the letter of the law has been fulfilled entirely. The converted sinner now is covered by the righteous of Christ imputed to him.

Notice the results of the eunuch’s faith. In Acts 8:39 it states that the eunuch “went on his way rejoicing.” This was not a result of his being born again by faith, but of the justification he experienced upon the exercise of his faith. God had already released the eunuch’s shackles of guilt and declared him just in the phases of the eternal courtroom, but only gospel conversion allowed the eunuch to know of this release, to celebrate this release, to glory in God’s grace and righteousness, and to know that the law was fulfilled in entirety. The justification that takes place through faith is not just a one-time act, for we can go back to the refreshing well of justification through exercising repentance and faith, just as the publican did in Luke 18:13-14.

An important Primitive Baptist doctrine that separates us from most if not all worldly churches is that God has a regenerated people across this world and that some of these born again souls will not hear the gospel. The Holy Ghost’s regenerative power is not restrained by natural, civil, lingual, cultural, age or any other boundaries, and the new birth is not the result of lineage, relationship, or man’s will [John 1:12-13, 2 Timothy 1:9]. We see this extraordinary power to reach souls in both the unborn John the Baptist and in the hard hearted, Christian persecuting Saul when he was on the road to Damascus. We know that there will be a great multitude in heaven [Rev 7:9], a truth that can only be so if God and not man (or the preached word!) does the saving. Those that do not hear the gospel (or who hear it but do not convert) will not experience this aspect of faith (the timely aspect) but will still have the latent faith they were given at the new birth. When a person “accepts Christ and the gospel,” ultimate reassurance is available to him at that moment, and he is assured that God looks at his sins and sees only the spotless Lamb of God.

If the new convert is presented with the truth and glory of baptism, he most likely will seek to be baptized. This becomes the first good work in the court of the world, where we are immersed in front of other believers and thereby make a public declaration of all that God has done for us, as well as a cleansing of our conscience as we take the step into church membership [1 Pet 3:21]. Note that the eunuch in v. 36 seeks baptism at the moment he understands and “accepts” the message given to him by Philip. The new believer is now free to go and exercise his faith and to do more good works, further cementing or proving to himself and to those around him the claim God has on his soul.

Those regenerate but unconverted peoples across the globe, regardless of their beliefs, can do good works and in that manner be justified by these works both to other people and secondarily to themselves. Nevertheless, nothing like the active and propulsive knowledge and faith in God’s salvation (gospel conversion) can assuage a man’s guilt, purge his conscience, and give focus to good works that he may have already been doing. The good works he had been doing were in response to God’s indwelling presence (he is disposed to do good) and because he was seeking to “save himself” outside of a knowledge of Christ (outside of gospel conversion). The good works and good attitudes of born again people are listed in a number of scriptures [Matthew 5:3-11, Galatians 5:22-26, 1 Thessalonians 1:3-4, 2 Peter 1:1-11] and give assurance (both inward and outward) of our election and of the change wrought within our hearts by God. These beautiful action words of Christianity (and of born again people who have not or cannot hear the gospel) include some of the noblest ideals ever expressed: faith (note that this is a fruit of the Spirit), love, hope, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, diligence, virtue, kindness, mercy, humility, meekness, temperance, justness, holiness, soberness, hospitality, patience, and charity.

Proper understanding of the phases of justification is a powerful antidote to “easy believism,” Arminianism, and Calvinism. Only when we focus on the experience of justification (in which we can partake) rather than on the new birth (in which we are passive) can we truly understand God’s grace and His divine plan for his elect people.


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## yeutter (Apr 21, 2007)

http://www.pb.org


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## JM (Apr 26, 2007)

It should be noted, the article I posted doesn't represent the view of ALL Primitives, just some.


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