# Labor Unions



## AC. (Mar 20, 2010)

Got alot of heat at work for refusing to protest the Gov of NJ. I told a few people I refused to participate on religious (and political) grounds.

There are many fellow Christians (non-reformed) who thought I was nuts for using Christian-justification for not picketing.

Any thoughts???


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## Rich Koster (Mar 20, 2010)

I am a shop steward. By my own convictions, I see no need to protest what CC is attempting. We expect our elected reps to run their dept. with balanced books. CC is merely discharging his duties. Boo-frikkity-hoo to those special interests who get cut down to operating within the means provided by the current anticipated budget/cashflow. Why should we in the private sector get a 30% bump in our healthcare costs and the state employees not share in the increase? In our contract there is language that the employee shares the increase with the employer 50/50, up to 20% per year.


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## AC. (Mar 20, 2010)

Thanks for the response Rich


Anyone care to comment on this article? Labor Union Membership in the Light of Scripture


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## Scott1 (Mar 20, 2010)

One general observation- it would be biblical to protest corruption, overspending and waste that has squandered the wealth of a generation of people, and encourage, support and rejoice over attempts to change it for the better.

I don't know enough about the specific situation to comment.

This is a difficult subject generally and many will be sensitive about it.

But, Scripture does speak in principle to employer/employee relationships and how God vests power. And how private property is regarded (explicit and implicit in the ten commandments).



> Ephesians 5
> 
> 5Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ;
> 
> ...





> 18Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
> 
> 19For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
> 
> ...



Basically, God does not vest violent power in the employee over his employer. Rather, a hard truth, that requires faith in this fallen material seeking world, is that God calls employees even to suffer that they might witness of their Lord in difficult situations.

Not the 'spirit of the age'- not in our natural selves, but a central part of the denial of self, and the Lordship of Christ.


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## Rich Koster (Mar 20, 2010)

I just read the preface:

"This pamphlet is the revised text of a speech on the subject of labor union membership given in Lansing, Illinois under the auspices of the Evangelism Committee of the Peace Protestant Reformed Church of Lansing. The fact that the speech was given in a south suburb of that great center of labor unionism accounts, in large part, for the repeated references to Chicago.
During my fourteen-year pastorate of a congregation in the Chicagoland area, I came to know firsthand the violence, threats, intimidation, beatings, maimings, murders, mayhem, ruthlessness, contempt for law, and corruption of the labor unions. I remember distinctly the murder of a trucker on I-80/94 east of South Holland, Illinois during a Teamsters Union strike. Union enforcers dropped large chunks of concrete from an overpass on the unsuspecting driver.
The stand against labor union membership by the Christian defended in this pamphlet is principled. It is a stand based on Scripture’s condemnation of unionism’s constitutional nature. It is also a stand that is well aware of the actual spiritual condition and conduct—the ungodliness—of the unions, which every member willingly joins and for whose constitution, condition, and conduct every member makes himself responsible before God the Judge."

He is painting all labor unions with a gangster mentality. I need not read any further because this broad brushstroke shows that he does not know anything beyond his limited experience. There are many professional organizations and collective bargaining units that exist merely to provide large group rate benefits and retirement funds. Not all unions carry baseball bats in the parking lot.

The company I work for actually purchases medical benefits for management and mechanics through the union. The regional manager of operations told me that they tried to purchase health care coverage on their own, but the union plan offered better care at a lower cost.


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## smhbbag (Mar 20, 2010)

> He is painting all labor unions with a gangster mentality. I need not read any further because this broad brushstroke shows that he does not know anything beyond his limited experience. There are many professional organizations and collective bargaining units that exist merely to provide large group rate benefits and retirement funds. Not all unions carry baseball bats in the parking lot.



I hope not to speak too boldly, but yes, every single union _does_ carry a big fat baseball bat to threaten the employer. Some do so with a smile on the face, and others with a scowl, but they all carry it.

Some "merely get" these large group rates and retirement funds by employing the guns of government to force the employer to negotiate with them. 

The "nice" unions have all their violence and threats and intimidation done by their lawyers while the members are peaceful. But the threat, and the violence, is very very real and they merely have the government carry the bat so they can look pristine.

There is no such thing as "negotiation" between a union and an employer. That is an abuse of the English language. A negotiation is voluntary. Unions extort - and the extent of the extortion only depends on the conversations that take place in so-called negotiations.

If it's a "negotiation," why is one side not free to tip over the bargaining table and walk away? In a true negotiation, the employer could choose its workforce. It could fire every worker, hire all the scabs they want, and be rid of a problem workforce permanently. That is freedom and property rights. But we don't have those.

How is it possible for a union not to have a gangster mentality? Unionism is gangsterism, by definition.

Union to employer: "We will allow you to talk with our people about how much you pay us. We may be kind enough to accept something you offer without driving too hard. But you are not allowed to have anyone else work for you, no matter how dissatisfied you are with us. If you don't like it, my friend here (pointing to government friend with the bat) will take care of you."

Just because the union rep. doesn't have the bat is kind of irrelevant. That _is_ gangsterism. But sometimes it wears a tie and a nice smile. But not often.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 20, 2010)

smhbbag said:


> > He is painting all labor unions with a gangster mentality. I need not read any further because this broad brushstroke shows that he does not know anything beyond his limited experience. There are many professional organizations and collective bargaining units that exist merely to provide large group rate benefits and retirement funds. Not all unions carry baseball bats in the parking lot.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hmmm, so would it be going out on a limb to deduce that you aren't a fan of labor unions?


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## smhbbag (Mar 20, 2010)

That's probably a fair assessment.

Except, I do recognize the ability to organize and bargain collectively - there is absolutely nothing wrong with that. That's not gangsterism. 

Gangsterism is pointing a gun (yours, the government's, or both) at the guy across the bargaining table to keep the employer from entertaining other offers.


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## AC. (Mar 20, 2010)

This is a very complicated issue with many variables. I actually am a state employee (not a teacher or cop) so we actually worked with the previous gov on some shared sacrifice (health benefit contributions, 10 unpaid furloughs, cost of living increase frozen).

But if the gov. decided to do layoffs or take any other cost cutting measures then that is his prerogative. I'm not gonna fight it, or engage in class warfare, etc. 

I think labor unions have helped with unfair working coniditions, employee abuses, etc. But I have to go with some of the scriptures quoted in the article and a previous post and pray to God for what's just - I think I will forego the protests & strikes - I will call upon God as my labor union and so much more.

AC


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