# Doug Wilson books on family worth reading?



## shackleton

I have seen Doug Wilson's books on the book table in a couple of churches and knew that he was a Federal Vision guy so I wondered if his books on the family were good or bad or tainted with his Federal Vision views.


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## KMK

I think his book "Fidelity" should be read by every husband. I am not an expert at the differences between orthodox presbyterianism and FV, but I do not remember anything strange in his theology.


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## RamistThomist

Pretty much all of them are real good. I will probably lose Puritan points for saying that. _Angels in the Archictecture_ was fantastic. _Reforming Marriage_ was basic, but good. Same with _Federal Husband_. I read them all about 3 years ago. Forgot much of what they said but I didn't see the proposition "I deny sola fide." 

His book on sexuality wasn't all that its cracked up to be. It was good, as far as the basics of fidelity go, but I wasn't impressed.

His book on coutship (_Her Hand in Marriage_ was real good.


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## Reformed Covenanter

His books on the family are great; though the one on the Federal Husband has traces of his mono-covenantalism in it.


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## RamistThomist

His book on the church (something like _Mother Kirk_ ) was excellent, though there are traces of the current debates in it. But even then, it is too good to simply dismiss. 

His stuff on education is ok. It is good in what it originally set out to do (popularize Rushdoony regarding Christian education). I am still not impressed with the classical model.


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## Reformed Covenanter

Ivanhoe said:


> His stuff on education is ok. It is good in what it originally set out to do (popularize Rushdoony regarding Christian education). I am still not impressed with the classical model.



 I share similar reservations.


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## Reformed Covenanter

It's alright saying "just read the Puritans" but we need modern books, written by modern authors, on these themes.

If Reformed theologians would get out of their Calvinistic cloisters, and start writing stuff for people in the real world, we would all be a lot better served.


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## Reformed Covenanter

joshua said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's alright saying "just read the Puritans" but we need modern books, written by modern authors, on these themes.
> 
> If Reformed theologians would get out of their Calvinistic cloisters, and start writing stuff for people in the real world, we would all be a lot better served.
> 
> 
> 
> Firstly, I didn't say _just read the Puritans_. But also the _Puritanesque_, which would include modern day Theologs (particularly those who've read the Puritans).
> 
> Secondly, speak for yourself (and I'll speak for myself), but I've profited more from the Puritans than any modern day writer. Unless your trudging through Owen or the like on some Doctrinal Treatise, the Puritans are excellent and very understandable writers on all things family.
Click to expand...


Yes, but who are the average lay person more likely to read: a Puritan, or a modern writer? Moreover, things need to be updated and refined.


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## Kevin

Yes, they are very good.


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## KenPierce

Better choices: anything by the Tripps, Powlison, Welch and company!!!


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## Reformed Covenanter

KenPierce said:


> Better choices: anything by the Tripps, Powlison, Welch and company!!!



Are they better books? The men might be better, but what about the content?


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## Zenas

My pastor is a big fan of Doug Wilson from what I've seen. *shrug* I've never read anything by him myself, out of fear of being undiscerning.


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## ChristianTrader

Daniel Ritchie said:


> KenPierce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better choices: anything by the Tripps, Powlison, Welch and company!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they better books? The men might be better, but what about the content?
Click to expand...


Daniel,
One must remember that Wilson is not the one and only Reformed person to write well on family issues.

CT


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## Reformed Covenanter

ChristianTrader said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KenPierce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better choices: anything by the Tripps, Powlison, Welch and company!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they better books? The men might be better, but what about the content?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Daniel,
> One must remember that Wilson is not the one and only Reformed person to write well on family issues.
> 
> CT
Click to expand...


True enough; but has anyone written anything better than him? Nearly everyone I know who has read any of the Wilson Family series books cannot praise them highly enough.


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## Stephen

KenPierce said:


> Better choices: anything by the Tripps, Powlison, Welch and company!!!




I agree with these excellent choices. I do not recommend Wilson's books on the family anymore because of his denial of the covenant of works, expecially in his *Federal Husband*.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

What would y'all recommend then?


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## RamistThomist

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> What would y'all recommend then?



Doug Wilson's books. Or Jay Adams, whom Wilson popularizes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## KenPierce

Daniel Ritchie said:


> KenPierce said:
> 
> 
> 
> Better choices: anything by the Tripps, Powlison, Welch and company!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are they better books? The men might be better, but what about the content?
Click to expand...


Well, I guess you have to read them and judge for yourself.

The ones written by the Tripps on childrearing are grace-filled and practical to boot.

The CCEF of Philadelphia is putting out excellent, consistently Reformed, and grace-oriented stuff. May their tribe increase!!!

I have a hard time separating Wilson the daddy and Wilson the husband from Wilson the sect leader and Wilson the heterodox theologian.

MAybe it's just me.


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## KenPierce

AS far as who to recommend,

If you like moldy oldies, Lloyd Sprinkle did a beautiful edition of JW Alexander and BM Palmer's books on the family --two books in one volume.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> What would y'all recommend then?



This old thread may be of interest:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f32/child-training-books-reviews-17458/


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## Semper Fidelis

Doug Wilson is popular because of his style. I actually listened to hours of his lectures on the family on tape and pretty much exhausted the material. After you've read a bit you realize there really isn't a tremendous amount of information in his books (I've read most of them on the family) but that he sort of re-treads the same patterns over different areas.

One thing to be wary of with Wilson is that he crosses the line from opinion to dogma very quickly and, unless you're aware of it, you think he has Biblical warrant for turning an opinion into a Biblical precept. His ideas about manliness in some of his books reflect his own disdain for effeminate masculinity and what he thinks real masculinity is about. You practically get the idea that a boy can't be saved if his Dad throws like a girl. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating raising effeminate boys but his advice crosses the line like that dogmatically throughout his books.

Because he writes in an accessible way he is good but I would use his material in an environment where somebody more mature could guide somebody less mature and mediate his writings because you have to take some of his writing with a grain of salt. If you imbibe the whole thing and get sucked into the cult of personality then you'll soon lose track of the line between a Wilsonism and Scriptural teaching.


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## Cotton Mather

I pretty much echo the same sentiments. Doug Wilson's books on the family, marriage, etc. are very very helpful. While his monocovenantalism is indeed present within many of them, they aren't too subtle for a lay-person to notice. Easy to read and consistently Reformed in these particular areas.


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## KenPierce

I would recommend Robert Andrews' The Family: God's Weapon for Victory. I don't agree with all he says, but there is a lot of brokenness, self-reflection, and humility that exudes from the page.

I know Rob, and knew his sons well. He is the real deal, and he understands sola fide.

It is hard for me to reconcile how we might separate Wilson's misunderstanding of grace, and expect him to write about a grace-filled home. IT is also hard for me to believe a tongue that pours forth so much salt water (on the pages of Credenda), could give fresh water to a family in need of guidance.

But, that's just me!


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## py3ak

Daniel Ritchie said:


> It's alright saying "just read the Puritans" but we need modern books, written by modern authors, on these themes.
> 
> If Reformed theologians would get out of their Calvinistic cloisters, and start writing stuff for people in the real world, we would all be a lot better served.



I guess you wouldn't approve of my proposal, for the spiritual health of the church, to impose a 10-year moratorium on all Christian publishing (reprints of works by dead people excluded), as a time of repentance for commercialism, heterodoxy, pride, and publishing bilge and to seek greater light before leading more people astray.


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## Reformed Covenanter

Semper Fidelis said:


> Doug Wilson is popular because of his style. I actually listened to hours of his lectures on the family on tape and pretty much exhausted the material. After you've read a bit you realize there really isn't a tremendous amount of information in his books (I've read most of them on the family) but that he sort of re-treads the same patterns over different areas.
> 
> One thing to be wary of with Wilson is that he crosses the line from opinion to dogma very quickly and, unless you're aware of it, you think he has Biblical warrant for turning an opinion into a Biblical precept. His ideas about manliness in some of his books reflect his own disdain for effeminate masculinity and what he thinks real masculinity is about. You practically get the idea that a boy can't be saved if his Dad throws like a girl. Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating raising effeminate boys but his advice crosses the line like that dogmatically throughout his books.
> 
> Because he writes in an accessible way he is good but I would use his material in an environment where somebody more mature could guide somebody less mature and mediate his writings because you have to take some of his writing with a grain of salt. If you imbibe the whole thing and get sucked into the cult of personality then you'll soon lose track of the line between a Wilsonism and Scriptural teaching.



This is an interesting point; the first person to recommend Doug Wilson's stuff to me was Rev. Gavin Beers (the minister of Ayr Free Church of Scotland Continuing), however, he was also the first person to tell me that DW needs to ground some of what he is saying a lot more in Scripture.

One instance of this I found in _Future Men_ was when he said that fathers must ensure that their boys spend much of their time in _physical_ work (emphasis his). But where is he getting this in Scripture; yes, boys should be trained to work, but not all of them are cut out for demanding physical labour. My own father was/is extremely good at physical labour, while I am useless at it. But this is no reflection on my dad's abilities as a father, it is just that God has blessed people with different gifts.


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## RamistThomist

Had Wilson added, in regard to the physical work thing, that "This is I speaking, not the Lord, but I think I have wisdom on this," that would have been great. There have been times in my life when I put down the theology books and did hard work and it couldn't have been better.

And Dabney did hard manual labor before he did theology every morning, or something like that.


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## Reformed Covenanter

Ivanhoe said:


> Had Wilson added, in regard to the physical work thing, that "This is I speaking, not the Lord, but I think I have wisdom on this," that would have been great. There have been times in my life when I put down the theology books and did hard work and it couldn't have been better.
> 
> And Dabney did hard manual labor before he did theology every morning, or something like that.



Doubtless for many men, some hard physical work does them a lot of good; but not everyone's made like that. This is what Doug Wilson fails to make allowance for.


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## Reformed Covenanter

py3ak said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's alright saying "just read the Puritans" but we need modern books, written by modern authors, on these themes.
> 
> If Reformed theologians would get out of their Calvinistic cloisters, and start writing stuff for people in the real world, we would all be a lot better served.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you wouldn't approve of my proposal, for the spiritual health of the church, to impose a 10-year moratorium on all Christian publishing (reprints of works by dead people excluded), as a time of repentance for commercialism, heterodoxy, pride, and publishing bilge and to seek greater light before leading more people astray.
Click to expand...


 No, it does not say that in the Bible.


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## Semper Fidelis

Ivanhoe said:


> Had Wilson added, in regard to the physical work thing, that "This is I speaking, not the Lord, but I think I have wisdom on this," that would have been great. There have been times in my life when I put down the theology books and did hard work and it couldn't have been better.
> 
> And Dabney did hard manual labor before he did theology every morning, or something like that.



Right. If Wilson would say: "This is my opinion..." then it would be a lot more explicit and would be on almost every page of his writing. His opinions about many things are presented that way. It's not that he lacks practical wisdom but wisdom isn't a one size fits all proposition.

Incidentally, I'm a big believer that exercise sharpens the mind.


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## Semper Fidelis

...oh, but you can be saved even if you disagree with that assessment.


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## Reformed Covenanter

Semper Fidelis said:


> ...oh, but you can be saved even if you disagree with that assessment.



True, but you might be overweight.


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## shackleton

Cotton Mather said:


> I pretty much echo the same sentiments. Doug Wilson's books on the family, marriage, etc. are very very helpful. While his monocovenantalism is indeed present within many of them, they aren't too subtle for a lay-person to notice. Easy to read and consistently Reformed in these particular areas.



If I can ask a stupid question (I am just learning about FV) Which covenant is the _one_ covenant? Is it a doctrine of the covenant of works all the way through the bible?


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## py3ak

Daniel Ritchie said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's alright saying "just read the Puritans" but we need modern books, written by modern authors, on these themes.
> 
> If Reformed theologians would get out of their Calvinistic cloisters, and start writing stuff for people in the real world, we would all be a lot better served.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you wouldn't approve of my proposal, for the spiritual health of the church, to impose a 10-year moratorium on all Christian publishing (reprints of works by dead people excluded), as a time of repentance for commercialism, heterodoxy, pride, and publishing bilge and to seek greater light before leading more people astray.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> No, it does not say that in the Bible.
Click to expand...


[KJV]Ecclesiastes 12:12[/KJV]


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## Reformed Covenanter

py3ak said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> I guess you wouldn't approve of my proposal, for the spiritual health of the church, to impose a 10-year moratorium on all Christian publishing (reprints of works by dead people excluded), as a time of repentance for commercialism, heterodoxy, pride, and publishing bilge and to seek greater light before leading more people astray.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, it does not say that in the Bible.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> [KJV]Ecclesiastes 12:12[/KJV]
Click to expand...


It's a weariness to the flesh alright; but we should still try.


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## py3ak

But that only contributes to the problem that _of making many books there is no end_. And besides, how many books will be burned up on the day of judgment?


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## McPatrickClan

I do read Doug Wilson's work but mostly because I have not found many other authors that cover similar topics with the same clarity & honesty. I think it is his style that I am attracted to.

I just finished Federal Husband & am reading Fidelity right now. I do notice some of his Federal Vision thinking (from what I understand about FV) in the writing, so I just dismiss it and proceed. I can see where this could be an issue though. If I see it enough, I will probably stop reading his work.


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## davidsuggs

Well considering that most Reformed Christians still regard Simply Christian by N.T. Wright as being a great book and still very much in tone with the Confession, despite his more infamous New Perspectives on Paul, I see no reason to automatically assume that all of Wilsons books must be horrible or lacking in some way simply because the author has made certain mistakes since that time. 

Beyond that, I have to say that long before the FV controversy, I enjoyed his history conference and the pamphlet he and Wilkins did on slavery a while back. He is obviously flawed in his defense of FV and Auburn Avenue Theology, but apart from that, some of his books dealing with other subjects can be useful. When you are reading, you just have to understand where to draw the line.

This does not mean I support the Federal Vision or anything, just to clarify.

ps. Letter from a Christian Citizen was quite good.


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## McPatrickClan

davidsuggs said:


> ps. Letter from a Christian Citizen was quite good.



+1. I paired that book with Letter to a Christian Nation & thought Wilson swept the legs from Sam H's argument. I have yet to read a more complete dismantling of the functioning atheist perspective.


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## he beholds

For parenting encouragement, I recommend listening to the MOPC 2003 Parenting Seminar from an OPC in North Carolina (Matthews OPC).
It is a seven part series on parenting, and it is very convicting. The Pastor is Nathan Trice. Maybe I should post this where other family matters are, as well.


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## charliejunfan

His books on the family are great and I thought it was easy to pick out what was not right, but who knows? maybe it turned me FV and I don't know  nah .....?


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