# Bachelor's Degree Required for Seminary?



## teddyrux

Anyone know why all seminaries require a Bachelor's degree for admission? How is an ordinary Joe to get an in-depth training and knowledge of scripture, church history, theology, apologetics, etc without shelling out $ for a Masters level diploma?


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## Bookmeister

RTS Does not require a BA, you will still have to apply and be accepted but I made the cut.


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## Covenant Joel

It is likely because most Reformed seminaries draw from Presbyterian denominations which have as a requirement that that candidates for ordination ordinarily have a Bachelor's and then a degree from seminary. However, a number of seminaries will allow one to enter without a Bachelor's and then graduate with a Bachelor of Divinity rather than a Master of Divinity degree.


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## Andres

teddyrux said:


> Anyone know why all seminaries require a Bachelor's degree for admission? How is an ordinary Joe to get an in-depth training and knowledge of scripture, church history, theology, apologetics, etc without shelling out $ for a Masters level diploma?


 
Why are you opposed to earning a Bachelor's degree?


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## teddyrux

All I've been able to find are 1 year Certificate programs which is great for a lay person seeking to expand his knowledge not for someone who is called to full time ministry.

---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------




Andres said:


> Why are you opposed to earning a Bachelor's degree?


 
I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.


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## Andres

teddyrux said:


> All I've been able to find are 1 year Certificate programs which is great for a lay person seeking to expand his knowledge not for someone who is called to full time ministry.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:22 PM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why are you opposed to earning a Bachelor's degree?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.
Click to expand...


What denomination are you looking to eventually seek ordination with? You should seek out their requirements for ordination. Not all require an MDiv. Then you can taylor your studies to meet their requirements.


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## jawyman

Here is direct from the OPC BCO:

Chapter 21.3:

*It is highly reproachful to religion and dangerous to the church to entrust the preaching of the gospel to weak and ignorant men.* The presbytery shall therefore license a candidate only if he has received a bachelor of arts degree, or its academic equivalent, from a college or university of reputable academic standing, and has completed an adequate course of study lasting at least one year and a half in a theological seminary.

This is why a man needs a BA/BS in the OPC, but there are exceptions to the rule.


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## mjmacvey

This issue was discussed not too long ago in this thread http://www.puritanboard.com/f55/seminary-without-bachelors-before-hand-56094/ 

As was mentioned above and in that thread there are options for attending seminary (even accredited schools) without holding a bachelor's degree, however, in most cases it is better to get the BA or BS first.


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## Marrow Man

There are some seminaries that will admit students without a Bachelor degree on a trial basis. RTS is one such school (mentioned above), and Erskine does this as well (I knew someone who was doing this while I was a student there).


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## larryjf

I would speak to those responsible for your spiritual oversight and ask them for advice on the way in which you should go for your education. For instance, in presbyterian circles you could ask your Session, and then depending on if you are planning to go into ministry talk to the presbytery as well.


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## puritanpilgrim

> I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.



I think it would be easier to answer your question if we knew, what denomination you were in and where you live. There are many programs designed for men just like you. And when you were finished you not be ignorant.


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## Steve Curtis

puritanpilgrim said:


> you not be ignorant.
> 
> 
> 
> I know it's just a typo - but in context, that's pretty funny (as typos often can be!)
Click to expand...


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## teddyrux

puritanpilgrim said:


> I think it would be easier to answer your question if we knew, what denomination you were in and where you live. There are many programs designed for men just like you. And when you were finished you not be ignorant.



I attend a non-denominational, reformed church. Location isn't important as many seminaries and colleges offer distance classes, although I live in Michigan.


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## Guido's Brother

Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

Not all seminaries require the undergrad. It is difficult to answer your question as your sig is not present to give us a wee bit more details.

AMR


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## Tim

Guido's Brother said:


> Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.


 
That is what I was thinking. I have no formal theological training, but I am an academic. I was wondering if entering seminary having not had the academic _experience_ of undergraduate work would make it all the more difficult to deal with the rigors of reading and writing in seminary. Obviously, we are talking about the "non-spiritual" aspects of ministerial training.


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## Grimmson

Tim said:


> Guido's Brother said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That is what I was thinking. I have no formal theological training, but I am an academic. I was wondering if entering seminary having not had the academic _experience_ of undergraduate work would make it all the more difficult to deal with the rigors of reading and writing in seminary. Obviously, we are talking about the "non-spiritual" aspects of ministerial training.
Click to expand...

 
Depending on your academic experience, a bachelor’s degree may not necessarily prepare you the rigors of seminary. It really does depend on what your degree was and the types of liberal arts classes that you took in college. I know I did not write many papers in college. Another factor of consideration is the time gap from the college experience to the seminary, which could result in the lost of skills and knowledge gained on the undergraduate level. Examples of skills lost that may be difficult to move back into the academic life includes study habits and paper writing. And if you didn’t write many research papers to begin with then the integrating into seminary can be that much more difficult in relation to what is being required. I can say that my undergraduate experience didn’t prepare me for Greek and Hebrew, which I would recommend taking prior to even entering seminary because of the higher paced requirement in relation to one’s ability to retain a foreign language. You do not need to get the degree to gain the language experience. As you get older it then becomes harder to retain information and as a result may need more time and other different study techniques then you may have used in your undergrad. The best prep I think for a seminary education is reading a variety of material that will be required reading prior to going to seminary. If certain historical/theological issues are developed early then that makes the seminary experience that much more profitable. You will also find that whatever you read will then start to be reflected in your own writing. There also needs to be consideration between the differences between the rigors of writing a paper and crafting a sermon for public speaking. You’re not going to be reading a paper to the congregation nor are you going to be spending 40 or so hours working on a sermon compared to a paper; this includes all the required research 

Another consideration is to reflect on the purpose of the education to begin with. It is for the leaders of the church to gain the required skills of the trade. It should not necessarily be used to climb the pillars of academia and a stepping stone for a PhD, which can in turn take time away from serving the people of God. The point is not to reach the national governmental standards of academics, but instead Christian service standards. There are many kinds of knowledge and experience that does not necessarily go hand in hand with the book knowledge experience of an undergraduate degree. The church needs to train all their leaders and I think we need to be careful what standard requirements we bind on their conscience in our denominations and Christian intuitions, like seminaries.

Personally Robert, I think much of what are seminaries are doing we could do on the local church level for a cheaper and more productive rate, educationally speaking. The problem is that many of our pastors are not up to the task, which in turn could place into question their education to begin with. If you have a team of pastors working together towards instruction in church history and systematics then you should be able to get the same level of education, minus the student loans. And if you want a certificate of completion, I know of a great teaching store that sells certificates. Even in the process that I recommend, standard objectives would need to be present for the student and the teacher teaching the course.


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## Tim

Good comments, David. You are right that some bachelor's degrees may not prepare one that well for seminary.


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## Guido's Brother

Grimmson said:


> Depending on your academic experience, a bachelor’s degree may not necessarily prepare you the rigors of seminary. It really does depend on what your degree was and the types of liberal arts classes that you took in college. I know I did not write many papers in college.


 
I can agree with that. In my case, our federational seminary had certain requirements that I needed to meet to be admitted:

A Bachelor of Arts degree (or equivalent) that included courses in:

Hebrew (2 years if available -- I took 1.5)
Greek (2 years)
Latin (1 year)
English
History
Philosophy

As it turned out, the University of Alberta BA program was quite accommodating to these requirements and even went beyond them in making certain requirements for graduation. Even though it's a secular institution, I was very pleased with the undergrad education that I received at the U of A; it was very well-rounded. I realize that not all universities/colleges will be like that. For instance, a fellow seminary student had a BA from Australia and he had never studied Shakespeare -- not even in high school. I found that remarkable. How can you get a liberal arts degree and never study Shakespeare?


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## SemperEruditio

Heck Whitefield Theological Seminary ain't free but you will definitely get an education at a fraction of the cost. You posted that you don't want the degree so I would assume that accreditation isn't a problem so Whitefield would be a perfect fit for you.


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## teddyrux

Guido's Brother said:


> Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.


 
DISCLAIMER:
I am not comparing myself to Spurgeon.
END DISCLAIMER

I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:20 AM ----------

David,

Thanks for you advice. I did get the answer to my question in the responses.


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## larryjf

teddyrux said:


> I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.


There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:

Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney

But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.


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## Semper Fidelis

teddyrux said:


> I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.


 
I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?


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## Semper Fidelis

larryjf said:


> teddyrux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.
> 
> 
> 
> There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:
> 
> Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney
> 
> But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.
Click to expand...

 
 If you become as well read as these men then I'd be willing to give a man a pass but not simply on the basis of some excuse that academic preparation is incidental to ministry.


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## Grimmson

Semper Fidelis said:


> teddyrux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?
Click to expand...

 
I am not trying to defend Robert’s statement, but let us consider the issue of time and his age Rich. He is currently 41, if he gets a B.S. or B.A. in four years that would imply it would be 45 by the time he be ready to meet Bachelor requirement for seminary. Now add on top of that the reality that it is taking longer even for single seminary students compared to the standard two year expectation for earning a Masters. In many cases being four years before the M.Div is actually earned. If such is a case for Robert, then that will place him at about 49 before he could receive a calling or any other high application to his education. And it seems to me unless you’re already planted in a church and doing ministry within that church, it is much more difficult for a non-experienced older person to enter into say the pastoral ministry compared to a younger man in his 30s. That is at least the trend or rule that I see.

According to your signature list Rich, you are currently a seminary student, he is not yet one. You are already ahead of him in pursuing his education. I do not think he was referring to time in relation to responsibilities, but in regards to his age and the reality of the church using him in relation to that education. He can correct me if am wrong.

So why even try to get the education? Because I think it is a requirement for the church to teach these things anyway as being disciples of Christ in fulfilling the Great Commission and for those within the church to learn these things regardless of the level of Christian service one is providing. Now I am going to restrain a rant because it leading off topic of this thread.


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## Willem van Oranje

teddyrux said:


> Anyone know why all seminaries require a Bachelor's degree for admission? How is an ordinary Joe to get an in-depth training and knowledge of scripture, church history, theology, apologetics, etc without shelling out $ for a Masters level diploma?


 
Lots of seminaries offer certificate programs, or you can go to a Bible or Christian college. Some seminaries even offer a Bachelor of Divinity for otherwise well-qualified ministry candidates who are too "well stricken" in age to get a Bachelor's first.


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## Guido's Brother

teddyrux said:


> DISCLAIMER:
> I am not comparing myself to Spurgeon.
> END DISCLAIMER
> 
> I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.




It is true that Reformed churches (of Dutch background) have a provision for men with exceptional gifts to enter the ministry without a seminary education, and likely without any post-secondary education at all. It's happened a few times. But it's rare. The norm is for what used to be called "an educated ministry." That includes not only a seminary education, but also the preparations for it.


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## Semper Fidelis

Grimmson said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyrux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not trying to defend Robert’s statement, but let us consider the issue of time and his age Rich. He is currently 41, if he gets a B.S. or B.A. in four years that would imply it would be 45 by the time he be ready to meet Bachelor requirement for seminary. Now add on top of that the reality that it is taking longer even for single seminary students compared to the standard two year expectation for earning a Masters. In many cases being four years before the M.Div is actually earned. If such is a case for Robert, then that will place him at about 49 before he could receive a calling or any other high application to his education. And it seems to me unless you’re already planted in a church and doing ministry within that church, it is much more difficult for a non-experienced older person to enter into say the pastoral ministry compared to a younger man in his 30s. That is at least the trend or rule that I see.
> 
> According to your signature list Rich, you are currently a seminary student, he is not yet one. You are already ahead of him in pursuing his education. I do not think he was referring to time in relation to responsibilities, but in regards to his age and the reality of the church using him in relation to that education. He can correct me if am wrong.
> 
> So why even try to get the education? Because I think it is a requirement for the church to teach these things anyway as being disciples of Christ in fulfilling the Great Commission and for those within the church to learn these things regardless of the level of Christian service one is providing. Now I am going to restrain a rant because it leading off topic of this thread.
Click to expand...

 
The more ministry I have performed in the service of the Church, the more I'm convinced of the need that men be prepared for the same. I realize he has not even achieved a Bachelors Degree yet but age 49 is not too old if he really desires to be fully equipped. Given other responsibilities and my conviction that education ought to be continuous, I don't expect my own education will be completed by the time I'm 49 but will still be able to serve in some form of ministry during that time.

The pitfalls and the challenges to ministry are many. Being equipped to deal with the variety of Pastoral questions and challenges to the Christian faith does not come by easily. I've been in intense personal study for over 15 years and leadership for over 20. Every day I learn new things and I would never encourage a person's impatience to short circuit many things that ought to be in one's "toolkit" before they take on the ministry. I don't consider "degrees" to be the end all and believe pastoral learning is done much more on the ground of personal piety, study, and service to others but the academic preparation cannot be sacrificed in the least. If a Church is able to teach all the above, and thoroughly, then so be it but the implication in "I don't have the time..." also implies that one doesn't have the time for the Church to invest the same time that it would take.

As an example, we don't allow leaders to take significant responsibility in the military until they have many years of academic preparation, leadership, and observation of the same. There are simply no shortcuts to being a leader/teacher and the Scriptures are replete with warnings to avoid assuming these offices hastily.


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## he beholds

larryjf said:


> teddyrux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.
> 
> 
> 
> There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:
> 
> Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney
> 
> But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.
Click to expand...

 
I think this is the exception mainly because we are so Western. Some think college is the stepping stone to everything. I think college is overrated.


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## Andres

he beholds said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyrux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this because some of our Elder Brethren, Charles Spurgeon for one, never had any formal secondary education, or formal theological education.
> 
> 
> 
> There certainly are men who have lead the Church without the formal seminary education:
> 
> Martin Lloyd-Jones, Charles Spurgeon, William Jay, John Brown of Haddington, John Bunyan, Augustine, Howell Harris, D.L. Moody, A.W. Tozer, C.J. Mahaney
> 
> But i would say that is an exception rather than the rule.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think this is the exception mainly because we are so Western. Some think college is the stepping stone to everything. I think college is overrated.
Click to expand...

 
yeah but until all our employers think it's overrated too, most of us are best-off to go to school if it's required for our vocations.


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## Grimmson

Semper Fidelis said:


> Grimmson said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> teddyrux said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 41 and I don't have the time to spend the next 4 years getting a Bachelor's degree in Bible. I'm interested in a seminary level education without the degree.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 42 with 4 kids and am an Active Duty Marine with significant responsibilities. You have less time than I?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I am not trying to defend Robert’s statement, but let us consider the issue of time and his age Rich. He is currently 41, if he gets a B.S. or B.A. in four years that would imply it would be 45 by the time he be ready to meet Bachelor requirement for seminary. Now add on top of that the reality that it is taking longer even for single seminary students compared to the standard two year expectation for earning a Masters. In many cases being four years before the M.Div is actually earned. If such is a case for Robert, then that will place him at about 49 before he could receive a calling or any other high application to his education. And it seems to me unless you’re already planted in a church and doing ministry within that church, it is much more difficult for a non-experienced older person to enter into say the pastoral ministry compared to a younger man in his 30s. That is at least the trend or rule that I see.
> 
> According to your signature list Rich, you are currently a seminary student, he is not yet one. You are already ahead of him in pursuing his education. I do not think he was referring to time in relation to responsibilities, but in regards to his age and the reality of the church using him in relation to that education. He can correct me if am wrong.
> 
> So why even try to get the education? Because I think it is a requirement for the church to teach these things anyway as being disciples of Christ in fulfilling the Great Commission and for those within the church to learn these things regardless of the level of Christian service one is providing. Now I am going to restrain a rant because it leading off topic of this thread.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The more ministry I have performed in the service of the Church, the more I'm convinced of the need that men be prepared for the same. I realize he has not even achieved a Bachelors Degree yet but age 49 is not too old if he really desires to be fully equipped. Given other responsibilities and my conviction that education ought to be continuous, I don't expect my own education will be completed by the time I'm 49 but will still be able to serve in some form of ministry during that time.
> 
> The pitfalls and the challenges to ministry are many. Being equipped to deal with the variety of Pastoral questions and challenges to the Christian faith does not come by easily. I've been in intense personal study for over 15 years and leadership for over 20. Every day I learn new things and I would never encourage a person's impatience to short circuit many things that ought to be in one's "toolkit" before they take on the ministry. I don't consider "degrees" to be the end all and believe pastoral learning is done much more on the ground of personal piety, study, and service to others but the academic preparation cannot be sacrificed in the least. If a Church is able to teach all the above, and thoroughly, then so be it but the implication in "I don't have the time..." also implies that one doesn't have the time for the Church to invest the same time that it would take.
> 
> As an example, we don't allow leaders to take significant responsibility in the military until they have many years of academic preparation, leadership, and observation of the same. There are simply no shortcuts to being a leader/teacher and the Scriptures are replete with warnings to avoid assuming these offices hastily.
Click to expand...

 
I don’t think 49 to old to be engaged in ministry, however what I think and what is applied in our churches in reality are two different things. I agree that men should be prepared, however we should consider by whom and how is the person to be prepared academically and spiritually. I agree that there shouldn’t be shortcuts, but let us not command something of our leaders that scripture does not command of, which should be the rule of faith and life; including that of our leaders. Christ did not assign the profitable training of such leaders to a academic intuitional model, like a college or a receiving of a particular type and level of a degree. We as the church have delegated that churchly responsibility of training to our seminaries instead of engaging it ourselves. In fact I would make the argument the church is lacking on just about all fronts of Christian education as seen from the pulpit and Sunday School to Wednesday night and personal/family bible study. This is not to bash anyone’s church or anyone attempt of Christian education on this board.


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## Semper Fidelis

David,

I'm not arguing for a "professionalizing" of pastoral education. I've got an undergrad in Nuclear Engineering, a Masters in Electrical Engineering, and a Master in Military Studies. Of the three, the most carry over is probably from the last of the three degrees but even not that much.

The larger point is that theological education (like any education) takes time. Regardless of who gives the education, pick your poison, because it's going to take time. Think about how many hours the Apostles received following Christ 24x7x365 for 3 years. Thankfully, they knew the Biblical languages and, being raised Jewish, had years of school with the local Rabbis growing up (see Edersheim's Sketches of Jewish Social Life). Even Christ spent considerable time training His "preachers". If a man says he doesn't have the time for an education then it doesn't matter the path, he doesn't have the time for preparation.

I'm not a fan of our method of education and preparation in general but it is what it is. The PCA at least has clauses to recognize education and pastoral experience and ordain in lieu of more formal education so there are always exceptions. It's hard to find the people in ministry with the acumen and _time_ to train other Pastors. I'm very blessed to study under working Pastors who are very good at languages and the various loci of theology but that's not always the case. Even with these men, we're all tired at the end of the day and learning from 1800-2200 once every Monday exhausts even the best of us. I'm very thankful for a Pastor that takes that time with me. Am I, in a sense, getting a "union card" with my Seminary degree? Yes, but it's the general conviction of the PCA that such training is normally required except in extraordinary circumstances and I'm in a position to take the time to apply rigor to my education while adding practical ministerial experience to take the time.

I can tell you this: that after 13 years of pretty serious personal study in the Scriptures and theological reading, I have been personally surprised and elated at how much Seminary added to my theological growth.

Now to the issue of how men ought to be trained. Let me humbly suggest that the way to "fix" the situation about how men are equipped for ministry in general is to start at home. I've had a long time conviction that men need to be trained and have made adult education a priority. I invest and have invested a significant amount of time in men's (and women's too) lives to equip them to understand the Word better (and more than just the Wed night or Sun AM thing). The number of men that will commit to this is relatively small at times but the impact is huge. If you have these convictions then put the time into men's lives and make it happen.


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## Grimmson

There no disagreement that theological education and the prep there of takes times. The main issue that should be looked at is the goal and means to reach that education. We do not want to place something in the way that is unnecessary to that theological education. A general four year degree may not provide the necessary background for that theological education, such as the case of nuclear engineering. Now an undergraduate degree in philosophy, education, or history could. Time is a precious commodity that we cannot get back, therefore careful consideration of necessary prep materials should be employed. It can be done as a reading list, workshops, conferences, and many more ways. As a church we should be preparing people for that education and not a secular college or university. 

I disagree that this education should start in the home. As the church being like a mother, we need to get our training from her. You cannot teach your family in the home if you have yet to receive the knowledge from the church first. As the church instructs the men, it should flow then towards the home. People of the church can be like children, they do not know necessarily what they need. It is for that reason that we need our given pastors and elders of the church to guide and instruct us in relation to scripture; compared to the private study that most of us embark on in our own homes; which is important too. 

It is wonderful hear thoughtful Christian education towards the men of in the church and encourage you to continue what you are currently doing Rich.


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## Guido's Brother

he beholds said:


> I think this is the exception mainly because we are so Western. Some think college is the stepping stone to everything. I think college is overrated.


 
I used to think high school was overrated. My wife grew up in a rural community where that was the consensus for a long time. As for college/university, it all depends on the quality of the program. As mentioned before, I'm glad for my undergrad years. They exposed me to a wide variety of viewpoints, literature, film, history, philosophy and four new languages. I often wish that I could have taken more.


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## Semper Fidelis

Grimmson said:


> I disagree that this education should start in the home. As the church being like a mother, we need to get our training from her. You cannot teach your family in the home if you have yet to receive the knowledge from the church first. As the church instructs the men, it should flow then towards the home. People of the church can be like children, they do not know necessarily what they need. It is for that reason that we need our given pastors and elders of the church to guide and instruct us in relation to scripture; compared to the private study that most of us embark on in our own homes; which is important too.


 When I stated "start at home", I meant that one should seek to fix the problem by being part of the solution. In other words, if one is convinced that men are not being trained theologically in the Church then set up training for men in the Church. Of course, theological training _does_, in fact, start in the home just like any other education. Years of catechism are not quickly supplanted at the adult level if it can be instilled in a child's lifelong learning. It is also the duty of parents to do so but this is off-topic.


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## Grimmson

Semper Fidelis said:


> Grimmson said:
> 
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> I disagree that this education should start in the home. As the church being like a mother, we need to get our training from her. You cannot teach your family in the home if you have yet to receive the knowledge from the church first. As the church instructs the men, it should flow then towards the home. People of the church can be like children, they do not know necessarily what they need. It is for that reason that we need our given pastors and elders of the church to guide and instruct us in relation to scripture; compared to the private study that most of us embark on in our own homes; which is important too.
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> When I stated "start at home", I meant that one should seek to fix the problem by being part of the solution. In other words, if one is convinced that men are not being trained theologically in the Church then set up training for men in the Church. Of course, theological training _does_, in fact, start in the home just like any other education. Years of catechism are not quickly supplanted at the adult level if it can be instilled in a child's lifelong learning. It is also the duty of parents to do so but this is off-topic.
Click to expand...

 Your right, it is starting to get off topic. When I said, “it should then flow towards the home,” I was reinforcing the need for men to instruct their wives and children; which stems originally from the church to start off with. This is not to deny children education by the parents, but a recognition of where that education stems from, which is to say the church. As the church instructs the parents, then the parents can teach their children through bible study and catechisms. To say that education begins in the home is to shift the blame of responsibility against those who job it is to provide theological education. It begins with the parents being trained, so that they in turn can train their families. You wouldn’t want uneducated parents teaching their children on matters they know nothing about because if something is taught wrong it makes the job of correcting the children later on that much more difficult. Now it is better that we receive this theological instruction to begin with as children and what I would add is that it must be done by the church, as the parents, however not alone, being partnered with the teachers of the church, such as the clergy, as the means in which the church give this theological education. And of course this education by the church does not end with childhood, but continues for the rest of one’s life in God’s grace. Which is way I recommend that we do not try to out source our spiritual responsibility in education, but instead try to bring things back to the church and scripture.


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## jawyman

Guido's Brother said:


> Bad idea to get a seminary training without an undergrad degree. Among other things, writing papers on assorted topics for three or four years beforehand is great training for the rigours of sermon preparation in the ministry.


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