# Good Durable Cutlery?



## "William The Baptist" (Sep 14, 2011)

Hey all,

So I'm looking to invest, for long term, in a nice set of knives. I went back and forth over whether or not I was willing to spend even a few hundred... but I am fed up with the knives we have at my house!

I cook daily and chopping up fresh veggies is a daily occurrence, so it is worth it to me. As well as plenty of other nice chopping jobs  Not to mention, cooking is one of my favorite things to do! Besides read.. (;

Anyone have a favorite or recommendations?


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## Pilgrim Standard (Sep 14, 2011)

Old Hickory Carbon Steel Knives. They won't break the bank, but they are not garbage "exotic" new metals with metal so soft it "rolls" when you attempt to sharpen it. Carbon steel will hold an edge. The trade off is that you will need to dry them right after washing them as to prevent them from rusting. Carbon steel rusts. But simple hand drying maintenance is a small price to pay for a good blade use, in my opinion. These are REAL FUNCTIONAL knives. Not normal store tin.


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## Theoretical (Sep 14, 2011)

Good knives make cooking so much more enjoyable and are an investment well-worth pursuing.

Victorinox Forschner knives have been well-liked by Cook's Illustrated, and even performed better than a lot of high end knives. I don't like the handles on them, but having used a friend's knives, they do a fine job.

Don't buy a whole set of knives at first. If the budget's limited, buy 2 really high quality knives: An 8" Chef's knife and a 3-4" paring knife. Oh, and a long, high quality sharpening steel. The total for this should be $100-20 (if going Forschner) to about $180-20 for Zwilling J.A. Henckels or Wustof's quality knives ($100 for chef's knife, $30-40 for the parer and $40-50 for the steel). It's WELL worth doing.

Since getting my two as a nice gift from my dad, it's made cooking so much more enjoyable and less frustrating.

I bought this chef's knife for a couple of friends as a wedding gift, and they absolutely loved it, and use it ALL THE TIME: Amazon.com: Zwillilng J.A. Henckels Twin Four Star 8-Inch High Carbon Stainless-Steel Chef's Knife: Kitchen & Dining

If you buy from Henckels, only buy the knives that have a "2-man" logo, not the 1-man logo. The former is vastly superior and what chefs use.

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Going high-end is unnecessary, but these are investments well worth pursuing. The time savings alone are worth it.


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## jennywigg (Sep 14, 2011)

Great post!! I love to cook, but it's becoming quite the chore with our super-dull, wooden-handle-falling-off knives. But since hubby let me get braces, we can't afford rice and beans, let alone a $100 chef's knife. I'm so ashamed. Hmmmm...I might have to ask for knives for Christmas.


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## "William The Baptist" (Sep 14, 2011)

Benjamin, the rusting is something I would be hesitant about. I handwash a lot when I'm cooking, so it wouldn't be a HUGE deal... but as I am investigating more, I will look into these! Is this what you use?

Scott, thank you for the great reply! So have you used the Henckel knives, or just the ones your dad got you- the Wustof's? Where would you recommend finding a great sharpening steel?

Jenny, I can understand that.  My parents are trying to convince me to get braces (I really don't want them) and would rather invest in knives! Maybe you can even ask for your birthday  I got a little bit of birthday money and am using that toward my knives.


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## JoannaV (Sep 14, 2011)

Aah the language barrier. I was confused for the first half of your post :B (To my British mind cutlery means flatware, and I wondered why you needed much advice and why durable cutlery was hard to find and how you could consider spending hundreds  )

And unfortunately have no advice.


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## "William The Baptist" (Sep 14, 2011)

I had to google what flatware is because down here it's known as silverware! 

Language barrier indeed.


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## Theoretical (Sep 14, 2011)

"William The Baptist" said:


> Scott, thank you for the great reply! So have you used the Henckel knives, or just the ones your dad got you- the Wustof's? Where would you recommend finding a great sharpening steel?



Leah, I've gone over to my friends' home and used their 8" knife and found it an absolute joy to use. So I'd recommend that one.

It took me awhile to find it and I couldn't initially find it, but this is the knife my dad got me: http://www.wusthof.com/desktopdefau...ies-121/tabid-75/379_read-3367/categories-210. It's not a traditional chef's knife, and it took a bit to get used to it, but it's extremely versatile and nimble. It's main weakness is being not quite as heavy for jobs that just take brute force. The little dimples in the knife help create air pockets while you're cutting so that the knife doesn't stick to the food being cooked. It's something taken from Santoku knives that I've found to be a real plus when cutting big cuts of meat.


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## nasa30 (Sep 15, 2011)

Hands down the best ever is Cutco. Expensive but you never have to buy anything again. Lifetime warranty and they will sharpen them from free. My wife and daughters are avid cooks and use them all day everyday. We have had them for over 10 years and had them sharpened twice.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Sep 15, 2011)

"William The Baptist" said:


> Benjamin, the rusting is something I would be hesitant about. I handwash a lot when I'm cooking, so it wouldn't be a HUGE deal... but as I am investigating more, I will look into these! Is this what you use?


I prefer high carbon steel knives hands down. I have many types and varieties, Old Hickory and other Ontario Knife Company Knives in the Higher Carbon make have become some of my favorites, and when I cook this is what I use. My wife will grab a "low carbon stainless" knife because she admits she will cut herself with real carbon blades. They are too sharp. Durability & Edge retention are what dictates a quality knife in my book. (This is why I don't use Ceramic blades which are VERY sharp, Hold a GREAT edge but can break much easier.) You may want to look in to Ceramic a bit if they fit your needs.

As for the rusting, this will not happen in a couple of hours. But these are NOT knives you would want to place in a dishwasher or leave in the sink over night. Just wash and dry with a towel then put them away. This is why the Carbon Knives of our ancestors have lasted generations. It was at one time a customary practice to hone up the edge of higher carbon knives on the bottom of the cast iron skillets that were the norm of the time. It was not uncommon during the American Great Depression for folk to be solicited by people willing to sharpen knives, door to door. This would be unthinkable for most knives in American Kitchens today because they are not worth sharpening or they will not maintain or even accept a decent edge.

Why do we ever get rid of the knives we have today? Because they are made of unacceptable junk metals. Carbon content is needed to increase a blades edge holding ability. This is known as "Edge Retention." High carbon Steels are used because they can maintain a fantastic balance between a strong _toughness_ (the amount of energy a blade can absorb prior to fracturing,) _hardness_ ("Deformation resistance" Measured on the Rockwell Scale,) and _Edge Retention_.

Admittedly, Old Hickory are not the most beautiful knives due to the hickory handles, but they are an exceptionally excellent knife for the price. But if you really want a good knife that would last a long time, hold an edge, perform an internet search for "High Carbon Cutlery." As noted, there is the cleaning maintenance of "drying" your knives and not leaving them in moisture such as cooking fluids, or dripping dry racks.

All in all I would stay away from any knives that do not list their metal content, and ALL with the following metal types "420, 420HC, 420J, 420J2, 440A, 440B" This is not to say that they are horrible steels, but that unless the heat treatment employed by the manufacturer is TOP NOTCH then it will not meet the standard.

For a simple basic primer on Kitchen Cutlery look into the Wikipedia article "Kitchen knife" If you have that simple amount of information down, I dare say you will be able to make a more educated selection of knife than the average American Consumer.


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## fredtgreco (Sep 15, 2011)

Leah,

We have used Henckel knives for more than 15 years (we got them as a wedding gift). I think the key is not to get ones that are "ever sharp" or have a serrated edge, because they cannot be sharpened.


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## JennyG (Sep 15, 2011)

Pilgrim Standard said:


> Carbon steel will hold an edge. The trade off is that you will need to dry them right after washing them as to prevent them from rusting. Carbon steel rusts.


I had a wonderful old steel knife, vintage, smooth old handle, beautiful balance in the hand, in fact everything you could want in a kitchen knife, except for the rust. Sooner or later someone is always going to leave it wet, and you're back to rubbing the rust off. rust smells horrid, too. I started keeping it in a secret place to prevent that happening, and in the end it was just too much trouble to use at all. So, not carbon steel!
All you really need is a halfway decent sharpenable knife, plus a man in the house who's into sharpening (put this on your checklist for a husband). Every so often all my knives disappear into the workshop where all the grindstones and carborundum and stuff are, and come back lethal.

I had the same problem as Joanna with "cutlery" - that's what you set the table with!


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## Jack K (Sep 15, 2011)

nasa30 said:


> Hands down the best ever is Cutco. Expensive but you never have to buy anything again. Lifetime warranty and they will sharpen them from free. My wife and daughters are avid cooks and use them all day everyday. We have had them for over 10 years and had them sharpened twice.



Our Cutco knives have held up well even though we've neglected them and never sharpened them.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Sep 15, 2011)

JennyG said:


> I started keeping it in a secret place to prevent that happening, and in the end it was just too much trouble to use at all. So, not carbon steel!


Jenny!
Don't say "NOT carbon Steel." There are Stainless with Higher Carbon content as well ! 

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fredtgreco said:


> Leah,
> 
> We have used Henckel knives for more than 15 years (we got them as a wedding gift). I think the key is not to get ones that are "ever sharp" or have a serrated edge, because they cannot be sharpened.


Pastor, have you seen the Henckel Miyabi Knives?! That is a forever knife of gorgeous craftsmanship right there!


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## JennyG (Sep 15, 2011)

Pilgrim Standard said:


> Jenny!
> Don't say "NOT carbon Steel." There are Stainless with Higher Carbon content as well !


okay! sorry - carbon steel is just jargon to me. I'll re-phrase: not anything that rusts!


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## Berean (Sep 15, 2011)

nasa30 said:


> Hands down the best ever is Cutco.



 My wife bought our set at a Cutco party that my niece hosted. We've had them for 5+ years and never had them sharpened. Still as sharp as the day they arrived. I'm always extra cautious around those blades!


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## Theogenes (Sep 17, 2011)

We've had Chicago cutlery knives for almost 30 years and have found them to be very reliable.


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