# Should we read Jesus into all of David's experiences?



## Need 4 Creed (Apr 30, 2013)

I've probably worded the question badly.

I am currently reading _Singing the Songs of Jesus_ by Michael Lefebvre. 

It seems that there is some debate about how we are to interpret the parts of the psalms that refer to the King. Michael is arguing that the references to the king, while they historically meant David, theologically they refer to Christ and should be understood as such.

However, this raises problems over the passages that speak of the King repenting from sin e.g Psalm 40. 

Boice argues: 'The mere fact that the psalmist confesses his sin in verse 12 warns us against applying everything in the psalm to Jesus'. But Michael argues that Boice 'fails to grasp the significance of Jesus' mediatorial kingship'. In otherwords, Jesus identifies with us to the point of taking our sin and 'leads us in repenting for it over his sacrifice'. 

What do others think?


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## Contra_Mundum (May 1, 2013)

He made him, who knew no sin, to be sin for us.

The sinless One never knew a transgression of his own (which of you convicts me of sin?), and he never had his own guilt, and he never had his own shame. But beside his coming "in the likeness of sinful flesh," that is into the fallen condition, with the miseries of this life granted a penal cast; he also took upon himself the guilt of our transgressions, and with it the shame attached. I think the horror in Gethsemane was amplified by the fact that he was not only assuming the burden of being the sin-bearer at that hour (as when the sacrifice received the hand-laying transferrence), but he was also drowning in waves of guilt that properly belong to those transgressions, and the self-loathing of shame that accompanies accepting the justice of the condemnation.

I think we sometimes think that Jesus simply "bore" punishment (the wages) and sin (guilt) like the non-rational goats-and-bulls did during the OT era, just more comprehensively and accurately. But he took the rest of our penalty as well, the whole thing including the penal shame. And the proof that he did so is found in his ability not only to sing those Psalms all his life without any irony; but also in his actually feeling the feelings that we ought properly to feel when we have owned our corruption and its fruit.

I think it might be William Binnie who writes that the Psalter is a perfect transcription of the emotional life of our Savior (or maybe it's Warfield's notion). The Son breathed out the Psalter's sentiments through David and the others before he ever came into the world. And when he walked among us, he surely committed these same sentiments to memory from childhood, until they were the very framework of his everyday psychology. If only we would do similarly albeit imperfectly, our hearts would still be robust.


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## Need 4 Creed (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for your response, Bruce. 

I'm guessing that Boice's view would be a minority position, then?


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## JP Wallace (May 1, 2013)

Virtually all the older writers and commentators, from the Reformation up to the 20th century have no qualms at all about interpreting Psalm 40, 69 etc. as being expressions of the suffering of Christ.

For instance commenting on Psalm 69:5 O God, you know my folly; the wrongs/sins I have done are not hidden from you, Henry Law (1797–1884) writes,

'He [Christ] stood before God as laden with all the follies and all the sins of his people. He received the burden transferred by God to Him, and acknowledged his imputed guilt'.

Matthew Henry on the same verse,

'This may aptly be applied to Christ, for he knew no sin, yet he was made sin for us; and God knew it, or was it hidden from him, when it pleased the Lord to bruise Him and put him to grief?'

On Psalm 40:12, Law again,

'To the eye of faith the blessed Jesus conspiculously appears. 'All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way, but the Lord hath laid on Him the iniquities of us all.' 'He was made sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him.' Thus He stands before God, by imputation as the greatest sinner ever seen on earth. he denies not His sin-laden position. he accepts all the inquities of all His people, as verily His own. He acknowledges their greivious weight. They so depress Him that He cannot raise His eyes. In numbers they exceed all power to count. In devout consciousness of the immensity of relief, with what fervour will the believer bless His burden-bearer—His sin-sustainer—the Lamb of God, that taketh away his sin!"

And so on!!


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## a mere housewife (May 1, 2013)

Rev. Buchanan I remember when you said something similar before and it was such a help to me. Then in identifying myself as a sinner in these Psalms I am still identifying with my Saviour (if I make my bed in Hell, thou art there) -- as my pastor put it recently, confession of our sin in Scripture is also -- is inextricable from -- confession of Christ. And this is hope.


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## Cymro (May 1, 2013)

I think that really all the psalms are Messianic and not just the obvious
ones as Ps 22---16---40--89 etc. Andrew Bonar held the position that 
Christ is our representative in those psalms that speak of our frailties,
demerits and sins, and confesses as such on our behalf. I think I repeat myself
by stating, where in the psalms is He not to be found?


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## Need 4 Creed (May 1, 2013)

JP Wallace said:


> Virtually all the older writers and commentators, from the Reformation up to the 20th century have no qualms at all about interpreting Psalm 40, 69 etc. as being expressions of the suffering of Christ.
> 
> For instance commenting on Psalm 69:5 O God, you know my folly; the wrongs/sins I have done are not hidden from you, Henry Law (1797–1884) writes,
> 
> ...



Wow! Thanks.


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## Need 4 Creed (May 1, 2013)

Thanks for all the responses. 

J


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## JP Wallace (May 1, 2013)

Cymro said:


> I think that really all the psalms are Messianic and not just the obvious
> ones



I agree Jeff. And furthermore don't you think that when you read and sing the Psalms with this perspective that it has practcal spiritual benefits? Take the idea that Christ did indeed bear our sins. That we all agree on, but what did it actually mean to Christ? These psalms tell us, and they reveal the awfulness of sin, the sinfulness of sin and the wonderful love of Christ to go through all this for us!


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## MW (May 1, 2013)

To turn the objection on its head, if these are simply the confessions of a private individual, they have no relevance for the worshipping community and should have no place in a corporate Psalter. That they find a place in the Psalter should alert us to the fact that they are communal. They are spoken in the representative capacity of the Anointed of the Lord, the Psalmist of Israel, on behalf and in the midst of the worshipping community. Even Ps. 51, which highlights a particular sin of David in the superscription (accepting the guilt of adultery, theft, and brotherly violence which had been charged in Ps. 50), does not require us to sing the words as those which have proceeded from a covenant breaker, but as coming from a Saviour-King who fully identifies with a covenant breaking people, procures restoration on their behalf, and leads them in the way of contrition and supplication to find forgiveness, cleansing, and renewal in the presence of God.

Those who only accept certain Psalms as Messianic, and regard Ps. 51 as nothing more than a personal confession, have no basis for receiving the final verses as original, and usually end up taking them as a later addition. This leads to a higher literary criticism which destroys the unity of the Psalms. Alternatively, when the Psalms as a whole are understood as Messianic, and the confessions of sin are likewise interpreted as Messianic, the corporate nature and organic composition of the Psalter are better appreciated and applied.


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## kodos (May 1, 2013)

Really well stated, Rev. Winzer. Very helpful!


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