# William Gouge: The argument from experience on the need for church government



## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 31, 2020)

... Have not families, schools of learning, Colleges, Universities, Cities, Towns, all manner of Corporations, Companies and Societies, Governors proper and peculiar to themselves: besides the public Magistrates, who are also over them? Is it not by experience found, that such proper and peculiar Governors are needful and useful, and so good in their several spheres? And shall the best Society on earth, the militant Church, be without Ecclesiastical Governors, proper and peculiar to it? ...

For more, see William Gouge: The argument from experience on the need for church government.

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## Tom Hart (Feb 1, 2020)

Off topic, but can anyone confirm how to pronounce the name Gouge? I ask because, while I would naturally pronounce it Gouge as in "gouge out one's eyes" (that is, _ou_ as in _house_), the Koreans, though their alphabet would permit the same pronunciation, say it _Gooji_ (_ou/oo_ as in _shoot_).


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## Jeri Tanner (Feb 1, 2020)

I believe it was Rev. Todd Ruddell I was listening to who pronounced it “gooj”, and he seems meticulous about those things.


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## Jeri Tanner (Feb 1, 2020)

Just do it and you’ll sound ten times smarter automatically.


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## Tom Hart (Feb 1, 2020)

Jeri Tanner said:


> I believe it was Rev. Todd Ruddell I was listening to who pronounced it “gooj”, and he seems meticulous about those things.


Thank you!


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## Phil D. (Feb 1, 2020)



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## Tom Hart (Feb 1, 2020)

Jeri Tanner said:


> Just do it and you’ll sound ten times smarter automatically.


"Gooj."

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## Tom Hart (Feb 1, 2020)

Phil D. said:


>


Was Gouge of French extraction?


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## Phil D. (Feb 1, 2020)

Tom Hart said:


> Was Gouge of French extraction?


I'm not familiar with his direct ancestry, but Gouge is certainly a French surname. It would be interesting to know if, how and when its pronunciation may have become somewhat Anglicized in its British use.


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## iainduguid (Feb 1, 2020)

There is a "Goodge Street" underground station in London's West End, which may be a clue. The station dates from the beginning of the 20th century, but the road name is presumably much older.

As someone whose name is perennially mispronounced (except in Scotland), I can sympathize.

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## NaphtaliPress (Feb 1, 2020)

I have Duguid ancestry (Fyvie); how should the name be pronounced? My great grandfather on my mother's mother's side migrated to Canada during the civil war and then to the US when the war was over. He went on to set type for various newspapers, winning the last world championship for fastest typesetter in 1887 (linotype was invented the previous year and so for all intents and purposes his record remains since no further contests were held far as I know).


iainduguid said:


> There is a "Goodge Street" underground station in London's West End, which may be a clue. The station dates from the beginning of the 20th century, but the road name is presumably much older.
> 
> As someone whose name is perennially mispronounced (except in Scotland), I can sympathize.


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## NaphtaliPress (Feb 1, 2020)

The work associated with the London Provincial Assembly of which Gouge was a member, Jus Divinum Regiminis Ecclesiastici, or the divine right of church government, has a brief chapter on the argument from natural law for church government. Naphali Press published this in 1995 in a 'popular' editikon. A new critical edition with 30 percent omitted text restored and other features, will be the second volume of 3 titles in the new Naphtali Press Special Editions series which hopefully will about roll out over the coming months. Vol. 1 of Durham on Revelation will come first, then JDRE, and then from a manuscript the 1628 sermons of David Dickson on the Jeremiah's Lamentations. 


Reformed Covenanter said:


> ... Have not families, schools of learning, Colleges, Universities, Cities, Towns, all manner of Corporations, Companies and Societies, Governors proper and peculiar to themselves: besides the public Magistrates, who are also over them? Is it not by experience found, that such proper and peculiar Governors are needful and useful, and so good in their several spheres? And shall the best Society on earth, the militant Church, be without Ecclesiastical Governors, proper and peculiar to it? ...
> 
> For more, see William Gouge: The argument from experience on the need for church government.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Rejoicing 1


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## iainduguid (Feb 1, 2020)

Many people try to make it French ("Du-Geed"), which of course it isn't. I get Dug-Wid a lot. Growing up in England, "Do-Good" was fairly common which is actually not far from the etymology. "Good" in Scots is "Guid" (pronounced "Gid") and the first u"" is short like "put". So "Du-Gid), with the stress on the first syllable.

Of course, in Aberdeenshire (like Fyvie), where most of the Duguids came from historically, the pronunciation is quite different. The first D is almost a "J", the middle "G" a "k", and the last "d" becomes a "t". So "Ju-kit" (again with first syllable stressed). The end result is a name that is very difficulty to spell for non-Scots; there is a classic comedy sketch on Youtube entitled "Doric Call Centre" which revolves around what happens when Mr Duguid tries to speak to his Bank by telephone (Warning: there is what sounds like a profanity at the end, although all he is doing is repeating his mother's maiden name).

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## bookslover (Feb 1, 2020)

iainduguid said:


> Many people try to make it French ("Du-Geed"), which of course it isn't. I get Dug-Wid a lot. Growing up in England, "Do-Good" was fairly common which is actually not far from the etymology. "Good" in Scots is "Guid" (pronounced "Gid") and the first u"" is short like "put". So "Du-Gid), with the stress on the first syllable.
> 
> Of course, in Aberdeenshire (like Fyvie), where most of the Duguids came from historically, the pronunciation is quite different. The first D is almost a "J", the middle "G" a "k", and the last "d" becomes a "t". So "Ju-kit" (again with first syllable stressed). The end result is a name that is very difficulty to spell for non-Scots; there is a classic comedy sketch on Youtube entitled "Doric Call Centre" which revolves around what happens when Mr Duguid tries to speak to his Bank by telephone (Warning: there is what sounds like a profanity at the end, although all he is doing is repeating his mother's maiden name).



And, while we're at it, why the "a" in Iain?


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## bookslover (Feb 1, 2020)

I have always assumed it is pronounced with a long "o" so that Gouge rhymes with "show."


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## iainduguid (Feb 1, 2020)

bookslover said:


> And, while we're at it, why the "a" in Iain?


I presume you are asking about the second "I"? It is the Gaelic spelling; Ian is the anglicized version. And my middle name is Moir, which everyone here wants to spell "Moyer", so I have to speel out all of my names here, whereas in Scotland most people know how to spell them. Common immigrant problems...


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## bookslover (Feb 1, 2020)

iainduguid said:


> I presume you are asking about the second "I"? It is the Gaelic spelling; Ian is the anglicized version. And my middle name is Moir, which everyone here wants to spell "Moyer", so I have to speel out all of my names here, whereas in Scotland most people know how to spell them. Common immigrant problems...



Yes, the second "I." My bad. Actually, I think your name(s) are interesting.


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