# Question why the deletion of these words in the KJV?



## earl40 (Nov 27, 2013)

Or did the NASB add words that should not be there?

1 Timothy 4:14 (NASB)
Do not neglect the *spiritual* gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic *utterance* with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.


1 Timothy 4:14 (KJV)

14 Neglect not the gift that is in thee, which was given thee by prophecy, with the laying on of the hands of the presbytery.


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 27, 2013)

The questions are one-and-the-same: What is the best rendering of the Greek?

1. χαρισματος, from χαρισμα (charisma), meaning "gift"; does the qualifier "spiritual" belong to the term itself? is it unstated but obvious? is it required (for accuracy) for the modern English reader?

2. προφητειας, from προφητεία (prophatea), meaning "prophecy"; is Paul referring to the _content_ or to the _act_ of prophecy? If the former, then the sense is that Timothy was called and ordained to the ministry by/according to special revelation given to someone. If the latter--and this seems to be the sense the NASB pushes the reader toward--then the focus of the statement is taken to be unspecified revelatory activity taking place at Timothy's ordination that occurs in conjunction with the ritual laying-on-of-hands.


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## earl40 (Nov 27, 2013)

Contra_Mundum said:


> The questions are one-and-the-same: What is the best rendering of the Greek?
> 
> 1. χαρισματος, from χαρισμα (charisma), meaning "gift"; does the qualifier "spiritual" belong to the term itself? is it unstated but obvious? is it required (for accuracy) for the modern English reader?
> 
> 2. προφητειας, from προφητεία (prophatea), meaning "prophecy"; is Paul referring to the _content_ or to the _act_ of prophecy? If the former, then the sense is that Timothy was called and ordained to the ministry by/according to special revelation given to someone. If the latter--and this seems to be the sense the NASB pushes the reader toward--then the focus of the statement is taken to be unspecified revelatory activity taking place at Timothy's ordination that occurs in conjunction with the ritual laying-on-of-hands.



Thank you Bruce. The reason I ask is because I have been looking into the topics of "spiritual gifts" and in the NASB it (spiritual) is used 5 times where in the KJV it is used 4 times. With the NASB I can connect Romans 1:11, 1 Cor 12:1, 1 Cor 14:1, 1 Cor 14:12 with 1 Timothy 4:14.. The KJV leaves out "spiritual" in 1 Tim 4:14 thus the it appears a separation between regular gifts is less distinguishable from spiritual gifts. In other words, if one can use 1 Tim 4:14 to show there is a qualitative difference in what these gifts are and how they are given(laying of hands) one could show such a distintion quite clearly.


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## earl40 (Nov 27, 2013)

earl40 said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> > The questions are one-and-the-same: What is the best rendering of the Greek?
> ...



PS. This was from an older post you did on how spiritual gifts are transfered to a person in Romans 1:11 which I found quite astute.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 27, 2013)

earl40 said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> > The questions are one-and-the-same: What is the best rendering of the Greek?
> ...



I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at here. Whether or not the gift that Timothy receives is specifically noted as a "spiritual" gift here in the Greek, it is clear from Ephesians 4:7-16 that Teachers and Evangelists are spiritual gifts. I would also note that Romans 1:11 probably ought not to be pressed to think of the same kind of spiritual gift spoken of in 1 Corinthians. I think the "gifts" that Christ gives the Church have a very broad connotation and need to be thought of as all serving a much broader aim that many Christins typically think of.


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## MW (Nov 27, 2013)

earl40 said:


> Or did the NASB add words that should not be there?
> 
> 1 Timothy 4:14 (NASB)
> Do not neglect the *spiritual* gift within you, which was bestowed on you through prophetic *utterance* with the laying on of hands by the presbytery.



Compare 2 Tim 1:6, NASB: "For this reason I remind you to kindle afresh the gift of God which is in you through the laying on of my hands."


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## earl40 (Nov 27, 2013)

armourbearer said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> > Or did the NASB add words that should not be there?
> ...



Indeed. This gets to what I am trying to communicate in that some gifts were given by the means of laying on of hands which seems to me to be a supernatural (or spiritual) gift like tongues, prophesy, or healing.


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## earl40 (Nov 27, 2013)

Semper Fidelis said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> > Contra_Mundum said:
> ...



Just looking into the bestowing of a gift that is done by means of personal contact.(laying on of hands) PS. I do not mean this in a magical sense but a way the Lord had ordained it ought to be done.


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## MW (Nov 28, 2013)

earl40 said:


> Indeed. This gets to what I am trying to communicate in that some gifts were given by the means of laying on of hands which seems to me to be a supernatural (or spiritual) gift like tongues, prophesy, or healing.



The comparison shows that the NASB has added the word "spiritual" in one case but not in another. Given that this is an addition, and not required by context, there is no basis for claiming anything in relation to extraordinary gifts. Presbyterians have generally seen the passage as providing an ordinary example of entrance into the ministry, which would assume the "gift" is something ordinary.


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