# Is Footwashing Okay?



## RamistThomist (Oct 4, 2005)

I know why it isn't a sacrament: doesn't sign-ify or seal any of the benefits of the new covenant.

But is it wrong to practice it in the context of worship? 

No church I have been in does it.


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## fredtgreco (Oct 4, 2005)

Would it be an element of worship?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 4, 2005)

I would hope it wouldn't be a circumstance of a worship service!


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## RamistThomist (Oct 4, 2005)

That is where I need help on. On one hand, this isn't a big deal for me. I am not wrestling over how to convince a future session of the legitimacy of such. BUt there is always someone who will ask, "Why not?" and I am just thinking of a good response. We spoke of the Lord's Meal in Sunday School last week and this came up.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> The church (Daisy Freewill Baptist Church in Daisy, AR) had feetwashings everytime we partook of the Lord's table. I remember dem dirty, country boy feet...ugh



Freewill Baptist Churches have feetwashing as an ordinance of worship (there were many of them back home in Arkansas).


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## fredtgreco (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> That is where I need help on. On one hand, this isn't a big deal for me. I am not wrestling over how to convince a future session of the legitimacy of such. BUt there is always someone who will ask, "Why not?" and I am just thinking of a good response. We spoke of the Lord's Meal in Sunday School last week and this came up.



I think that the answer is a combination of it is not an instituted sacrament such as baptism and the Lord's Supper - there is plenty of material available on this, and it is not a commanded element of worship (an RPW argument).

By the way, where are you worshipping in Jackson?


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 4, 2005)

The Anabaptist churches also hold it as an ordinance to be done along with communion (which only takes place 2-3x a year).


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## RamistThomist (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



Thanks Fred.
Due to the hurricane(s) and sudden engagements calling me home, I have not been able to "settle" into any one church. However, I am old friends with Lonn Oswalt and will be worshipping at his church.


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## gwine (Oct 4, 2005)

Interesting though that the Lord commanded it.

John 13 NIV

12 When he had finished washing their feet, he put on his clothes and returned to his place. "Do you understand what I have done for you?" he asked them. 

13 "You call me 'Teacher' and 'Lord,' and rightly so, for that is what I am. 

14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet. 

15 I have set you an example that you should do as I have done for you.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 4, 2005)

I think the Lord commanded the principle, not the act; that is, humility.


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## gwine (Oct 4, 2005)

The words of Paul in 1 Timothy 5 ESV

9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,[a] 

10 and having a reputation for good works: if she has brought up children, has shown hospitality, has *washed the feet* of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work.

Maybe the Lord did give out a principle, but Paul apparently did pick up on the act. Perhaps someone with more knowledge of the culture would be so kind to shed more light on the subject.


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## Arch2k (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> Is footwashing Okay?



If your feet are dirty, then sure, but chances are you need a shower too...


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> I think the Lord commanded the principle, not the act; that is, humility.



Especially since Christ asked them if they "understood" it. If it were the act of feetwashing, why would he ask if they understood? There was something behind the act that He was teaching them that He wanted to make sure they "understood".

My Church is called "Church of the servant" and in my opinion that name is great, especially considering this very example.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by gwine_
> The words of Paul in 1 Timothy 5 ESV
> 
> 9 Let a widow be enrolled if she is not less than sixty years of age, having been the wife of one husband,[a]
> ...



You think this is literally saying that these women have washed people's actual feet?


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## gwine (Oct 4, 2005)

Yes.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by gwine_
> Yes.



So, there are no qualified widows? ..


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## gwine (Oct 4, 2005)

But to qualify my posts, I do see the broader message in John 13 that we are to perform acts of humility. I suppose you can't get much lower that feet-washing (pun intended.)




> has shown hospitality, has washed the feet of the saints, has cared for the afflicted, and has devoted herself to every good work




As I look at the list of what the widow was to be doing, it is hard for me to see the words 'washed the feet of the saints' as anything but.

That is why I am hoping someone with a command of idiomatic Koine Greek will step in and enlighten me.


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## gwine (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by gwine_
> ...



Not understanding what you are asking here.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by gwine_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



An old woman loses her husband, and is a member of a Church. She needs to be taken care of, as a widow, but the Session approaches her with unfortunate news: "Sorry, Mrs. Gertrude, but according to our records, you've never washed any feet while a member of this Church. Therefore, we cannot help you out in any way. Sorry!"

?


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## gwine (Oct 4, 2005)

Seems harsh, doesn't it?

We might as well make note that she didn't have any children and disqualify her for that as well.



> if she has brought up children



But I digress. I am not advocating that we should not help a widow that is 59 years old, never had children and neglected to wash any feet. All I am trying to say is that why can't the words, 'wash the feet' mean 'wash the feet'? And so I keep hoping someone will step in and help me out.


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## pastorway (Oct 4, 2005)

In the Scripture foot washing is both literal and metaphorical. In those days, it was the duty of the lowest slave or servant in the house (or that lowest slave's children) to wash the feet of those coming into the house.It was a daily task performed for eveyone who came in and out of the house. This was a humbling job, as your feet could pick up some nasty stuff walking around the streets in those days! (hint - it wasn't just dust and dirt).

The point that Jesus makes is that this was the most humbling act of service that could be done for one coming to your house.

It is not a custom today and it is not needed today as a literal act. And in fact, washing people's feet in church - who probably have bathed and made sure their feet are really clean since someone else at church will be handling them! - is not nearly as humbling as what was done when Jesus washed his disciples feet.

So we see that the truth here is the spirit, the attitude of humility needed as we serve one another in the body. We well could substitute a long list of things we can and should be doing for each other in service to teh Body of Christ, fulfilling the commands to be hospitable.

In 1 Timothy we know that the widows would have served others by washing feet. This also though refers to the fact that these godly women would have been known for their humble and loving service to others within the church.

So I think we fulfill the command to follow Christ's example not by washing someone's already clean feet, but by esteeming all others as better than ourselves - thus seeing ourselves as the lowest slave in the House of God - willing to do anything to serve those around us!

Phillip


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 4, 2005)

I knew when I saw Phillip had responded the case would be closed.


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## gwine (Oct 5, 2005)

Thanks for the input, Phillip.



> hint - it wasn't just dust and dirt



Reminds me of the scene in Ice Age where the two rhinos are near the flower and as one is about to eat it Sid the sloth steps in a pile of something that wasn't dust and dirt and then starts wiping it off on the rhino's food.


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## youthevang (Oct 10, 2005)

I know that I am adding this a little late, but footwashing does not agree with the analogy of faith. It is an obscure passage and this practice is not recorded in the epistles as a normal routine or sacrament.


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> I know why it isn't a sacrament: doesn't sign-ify or seal any of the benefits of the new covenant.
> 
> But is it wrong to practice it in the context of worship?
> ...



Yes. Use some soap while you're at it.


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## Poimen (Oct 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



Is there such a thing as a Romans 9:16 Baptist church?


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 10, 2005)

May I ask, other than not believing it to be required, what do you have "against" footwashing? I always saw it as a wonderful, but terribly humbling, thing.


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## sosipater (Oct 10, 2005)

> May I ask, other than not believing it to be required, what do you have "against" footwashing? I always saw it as a wonderful, but terribly humbling, thing.


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## New wine skin (Oct 10, 2005)

Dito above

I watched a bible study leader do this to a disciple of his and tears filled the eyes of both particpants... was very powerful moment. Bible study leader made it clear to everyone foot washing was not required (and was infact only time he had ever done this in his 25 yrs of ministry) and was just a means for him to illustrate a point. Explained it as a means to show humility and servanthood. 

food for thought


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## pastorway (Oct 10, 2005)

If we live the principle daily then there really is no need to follow the outward ritual. I do not think we can make any kind of case that this ritual should be included in the worship of the church, but we surely can proclaim from the rooftops the necessity of humility and service to one another in the body.

Phillip


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 10, 2005)

I think it would be important to note that culturally we would be bad hosts if we did not wash other's feet when they visited. Jesus takes on the form of a servant, not to institute a culturally specific ritual (washing Palestinian dust off Jewish feet), but the principle of servant hood. Maybe this could be translated over to taking the heavy winter coats from those entering the church on a snowy day and hanging them up (i.e. servant hood).


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