# Why do women like Pride and Prejudice?



## Pergamum

I don't want to force myself to sit through this boring drek....does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so much and love Mr Darcy, whoever that is. 

Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?


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## BJClark

Pergamum;



> I don't want to force myself to sit through this boring drek....does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so much and love Mr Darcy, whoever that is.
> 
> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?



it's been awhile since I've watched the movie, so I had to look it up..


Pride & Prejudice (2005) - Synopsis


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## Oecolampadius

A friend told me that she likes the older one, not the newer version (2005) with Kiera Knightley in it. She must be referring to the 1995 version which has Colin Firth in it.


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## smhbbag

I absolutely love the 1995 version, and request to watch it more than my wife would even like. It took a lot of convincing to get me to watch it the first time...still some convincing the second time...but after I understood the plot pretty deeply, it all came together and I absolutely love it.

The casting, writing, performances, everything was superbly done on that film. A lot of good laughs in it too.

And anybody who demands I hand over my man-card, or wishes to take any man-points away from me either 1) has not seen the film or 2) has absolutely no appreciation for good story-telling.

Just ask ChristianTrader - I forced him to borrow it and watch it. Don't know if he's come through on that one or not


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## Blue Tick

> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?



There are some serious man points to be lost if you watch an entire episode. However, I will warn you... Watching Pride and Prejudice can create the same discomfort as if you were shopping at the mall with your wife. Multiple episodes of P&P are similar to mall shopping when sales are taken place.

You've been warned...

Also, I'm so aloof to it I thought is was a series... Is it a entire movie?


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## smhbbag

You also asked about why women love Mr. Darcy. This is one case where I am perfectly fine with it, as he is actually a very good and decent man.

He is quiet, proud, brooding and quite rich. He is very unwelcoming toward new people or places, especially those he views as beneath him or as undignified, but those who are close to him can have no more loving or sacrificial friend in the world. He is a fiercely loyal, private, and principled man who (despite his pride) does not seek his own glory or reputation in any way.


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## BJClark

smhbbag;



> He is quiet, proud, brooding and quite rich. He is very unwelcoming toward new people or places, especially those he views as beneath him or as undignified, but those who are close to him can have no more loving or sacrificial friend in the world.



Though he is not the only one who has those characteristics..it is actually the back drop of the title "Pride & Prejudice" and understanding that..helps you understand the movie a bit more..


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## AThornquist

I tried to watch the 2005 version but just couldn't stand to finish it. That. Movie. Sucks. Not enough machine guns, blood, or explosions, plus there were hardly any special effects. Don't do it, Perg. Just...just don't do it.


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## Idelette

Funny you should mention this film.....its one of my favorites!  I love the A&E version best! I think part of the reason is that it resonates with so many women.....almost every woman at one time or another can identify with the characters and situations in this movie! Jane Austen wrote not only about class in society and other social issues, but she wrote about the internal struggles that we all go through as well. Instead of being a fanciful story line....the plot is much more real. Every woman can identify with Elizabeth Bennet on some level!

As for Mr. Darcy....he is the ideal man in many ways....a man of great intellect, strong character, respectable, and although mysterious and misunderstood at times......he is a man of incredible loyalty!


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## smhbbag

> I tried to watch the 2005 version but just couldn't stand to finish it. That. Movie. Sucks. Not enough machine guns, blood, or explosions, plus there were hardly any special effects. Don't do it, Perg. Just...just don't do it.



That move is every bit as horrible as you say.

I'll try to put it in terms that may make sense to you, by way of analogy:

Rocky 1 is to Rocky 5 as the 1995 P&P is to the 2005. If someone saw Rocky 5, and decided they hate Rocky movies, every guy in the world would say "Hey! There are only 4 real Rocky movies and a horrible 5th one just happened to take the same name. Go watch the real ones." Well, same thing here


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## AThornquist

smhbbag said:


> I'll try to put it in terms that may make sense to you, by way of analogy:
> 
> Rocky 1 is to Rocky 5 as the 1995 P&P is to the 2005. If someone saw Rocky 5, and decided they hate Rocky movies, every guy in the world would say "Hey! There are only 4 real Rocky movies and a horrible 5th one just happened to take the same name. Go watch the real ones." Well, same thing here



You just spoke to my soul. I'm willing to watch older versions now


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## CalvinandHodges

In His Grip said:


> Funny you should mention this film.....its one of my favorites!  I love the A&E version best! I think part of the reason is that it resonates with so many women.....almost every woman at one time or another can identify with the characters and situations in this movie! Jane Austen wrote not only about class in society and other social issues, but she wrote about the internal struggles that we all go through as well. Instead of being a fanciful story line....the plot is much more real. Every woman can identify with Elizabeth Bennet on some level!
> 
> As for Mr. Darcy....he is the ideal man in many ways....a man of great intellect, strong character, respectable, and although mysterious and misunderstood at times......he is a man of incredible loyalty!



Hi:

I guess your "Prejudice" does not have anything to do with your icon? Does it? 

As I was an English Lit major in College I can relate with good storytelling. Jane Austin is one of the best. I saw the BBC version of P&P and thought that it was as true to the text as could be, and well acted: Jennifer Ehle played Elizabeth well, and Colin Firth was incomparable as Mr. Darcy.

The BBC version was a mini-series with 6 episodes. Keira Knightly (a fine actress as well) did a 2 hour movie. The movie suffers from having to cut many scenes out of the book in order to fit the format. The mini-series suffers from - time to time - being long and drawn out.

If you are used to the regular 2 hour "smash and bash" movie format of Hollywood, then the P&P movie is for you. If you can exercise some patience, and endeavor to get "into" the story, then you will find the mini-series to be quite rewarding.

If you are looking for something similar by the same author, then check out _Sense and Sensibility_ starring Hugh Grant and Emma Thompson. This was very well done. I think you will find Grant's "Mr. Dashwood"'s character as appealing as Mr. Darcy - with the added element of Grant's typically understated British humor.

Well, I guess my "Manly Meter" has just dropped a few ticks, but I don't mind, because Austin explores areas of human interrelations which Bruce Willis, or Sylvester Stallone dare not tread.

Blessings,

Rob


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## charliejunfan

I liked the new version of the movie with kierra knightly because Mr.Darcy looked like a geek! It made me more confident lol


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## Rangerus

Pergamum said:


> does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so ?



two words...Jane Austin


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## ClayPot

I actually like both versions, but the older one better (I even bought it for my wife as a present and have sat through it TWICE)!

Lot's of drama among the women. I think the part I like about it is instead of fist fights and guns they make little snarky comments which are a slap in the face. It's funny to think of the way they insulted each other at the time.

There's also a little intrigue and suspense. If you can get past the first episode, it will probably be better than you think.


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## KMK

I am a fan of anything that has to do with the greatest novelist ever. I even liked Clueless!


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## kvanlaan

A&E version for sure. I know it is six hours of drama over the dark and brooding Mr Darcy, but the newer version is utter rubbish. It's like the A&E version was edited with a pen knife, then sped up 3x.

I'll be turning in my man card now.


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## py3ak

Pergamum said:


> I don't want to force myself to sit through this boring drek....does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so much and love Mr Darcy, whoever that is.
> 
> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?



The movie with Keira Knightley is not worth watching. The miniseries with Jennifer Ehle will stand up to repeated watchings. The book is one of the finest things ever written.


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## toddpedlar

py3ak said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> I don't want to force myself to sit through this boring drek....does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so much and love Mr Darcy, whoever that is.
> 
> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The movie with Keira Knightley is not worth watching. The miniseries with Jennifer Ehle will stand up to repeated watchings. The book is one of the finest things ever written.
Click to expand...


I agree with all those who argue for the superiority of the 6-hour version. The new one is trash. We've had the old version for a few years now and watch it quite frequently - it's probably among our favorite movies (along with Chariots of Fire, Luther, the Mission) and easily stands up as Ruben said to repeated watchings. I think one of the things that makes that version SO good is the degree to which the characters retain Austen's dialog - which was BRILLIANTLY written. I think there's a lot to be said for P&P even for men; there are a lot of great characters and interaction among them - LOTS to think ao No, it's not an action-packed thriller, but then I don't think there's anything particularly *manly* about low-brow smash-and-explode movies with brutish dialog that pass for "man-films".


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## Pergamum

Teresa my wife just rolled her eyes when I asked her if anything "got blowed up" during the movie.

Women......yeesh!


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## JBaldwin

I own the BBC version and still haven't seen it. Last year, I read the book and I must say it was well worth the trouble. One of these days I will have a look at the mini-series.


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## CredoFidoSpero

It's a good story, and the A&E version with Colin Firth is the best. 

Jane Austin was such a good observer of people's character and the human condition. Though there are a lot of good things to admire, there are also a lot of foibles and even meanness (in that polite, British way) to laugh (and wince) at. There's a lot to be learned at watching her character's choices and the consequences - not only to themselves, but to their families and friends. 

And, yes, we love an intelligent romance .


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## Puritan Sailor

I think we have all the Jane austin movie remakes, including both Pride and Prejudice's. The older A&E one is definitely better. And honestly, I'll keep my manpoints because real men use their minds and love well-written stories. I'm really getting tired of the predictable smash and bash movies. Waste of time. Give me some good epics or well-written stories that make you think, and you have a good movie. Doesn't mean you have to give up the action, but perhaps look for action with good story telling too, like Gods and Generals, or Hero, or Lord of the Rings. If you appreciate Tolkien or Lewis, then you should appreciate Jane Austin.


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## Galatians220

*You all are so young!*

There needs to be a bit of "'Pride and Prejudice' on film" history here.

The remakes were made partly to capitalize on the success of the 1940 version with Greer Garson and - _ta da!_ - the ever so dashing Laurence Olivier in the role of Mr. Darcy. Olivier had become a "teen heart throb" in 1939 with his portrayal of Heathcliff in "Wuthering Heights." He was appalled at this; he started out as a Shakespearean interpretive actor and so he promptly made "Rebecca" in 1940 (in which he played a middle-aged, English nobleman who appeared to be a bad guy throughout most of the movie; gray streaks were added to his hair for that movie) and "Pride and Prejudice," also in 1940. He did this "costumer" also to divest himself of the teenage girls who were pestering him wherever he went.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6J85Xy2Y8zs]YouTube - Pride and Prejudice 1940 N - Final[/ame]

In my book, he failed in both attempts. Laurence Olivier will always be Heathcliff to me... 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IK5qLVwvrUY]YouTube - Wuthering Heights - Re-issue Trailer 1939[/ame]

While I'm very happy with the age that I am now, I do sort of wish that I hadn't been born *way* too late to have, uh, _appreciated_ Laurence Olivier as a contemporary.  (My mom was of an age to appreciate him; she was a "teeny-bopper," so to speak, in 1940, and she told me about him.) Olivier was one of a kind. He will always be Heathcliff and Mr. Darcy to thousands upon thousands of other classic movie fans and that's likely why "Pride and Prejudice" keeps getting remade. No other "Mr. Darcy" could ever hold a candle to Laurence Olivier, though. 

Margaret


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## Grace Alone

My aunt gave me Jane Austen books to read when I was a teenager, and I truly loved them! I haven't seen any of the movies, but I think I will order the 1995 P&P one to watch this summer.


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## Spinningplates2

Pergamum said:


> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?



I bought it for my oldest daughter afew years ago never suspecting she would expect me to watch it with her. I know that the Bible, science and everything else tells me that men and women are wired different but NOTHING has ever proven it more then watching that movie. If at all possible try to avoid it.


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## Ex Nihilo

Spinningplates2 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I bought it for my oldest daughter afew years ago never suspecting she would expect me to watch it with her. I know that the Bible, science and everything else tells me that men and women are wired different but NOTHING has ever proven it more *then watching that movie. * If at all possible try to avoid it.
Click to expand...


I may be in the minority on this, but I don't think the A&E movie is all that great unless you've read the book, too. The movie is badly shot and not that well cast, and while it certainly transcribes the book to screen faithfully (too faithfully), it adds no interpretive flair to make it worth my watching time when I could be reading instead. (I have, of course, seen it several dozen times, but mostly while doing something else.) Say what you will about the over-emotionalism, clipped lines, and far, far too short length of the Joe Wright version, Keira Knightley actually looks and acts as if she could be twenty years old (which is important -- the story changes if Elizabeth already has the maturity of a 27-year-old), Matthew Macfadyen doesn't have Colin Firth's puppy eyes and actually seems like a jerk early in the film, and Mrs. Bennet is a real character instead of a caricature of a silly mother (and on that point, Joe Wright may have done more than Austen herself, and I thank him for it). Whether you like the 2005 film as an adaptation or not, it's certainly a better quality movie than the A&E version.

As for why women like the books: I'm amazed that so many (outside of our conservative Reformed circles) do. Jane Austen's books are about women growing up and making a rational decision to marry a decent man who will help them grow further. There is almost no "passion." No one ever kisses. Characters with self-control and patience are rewarded. I don't really know why they are appealing to women who aren't looking for sanctification through marriage, except maybe that story of being cared for and cleansed through a husband's leadership kind of resonates with everyone.

And I don't think anyone loses any "man points" for liking them! There is nothing effeminate about appreciating good characterization and witty dialogue.


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## Hamalas

Why do women enjoy P&P? Because God made them insightful.


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## rbcbob

As a 54 year old male with a godly, feminine wife, two grown sons, two grown daughters, and three grandchildren I am in hearty agreement with Yvonne. The A&E version is our favorite.

If, as men, we cannot appreciate a story that delves into the personality defects and interpersonal relationship issues that are so common to us all then we lack a depth of what I would call a thoroughly well-rounded manhood.

There are lessens and applications galore in this well told story. Besides all that it is entertaining!


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## itsreed

Pergamum:

The answer is "yes", sit through it, pay attention, take notes, and at the right time get weepy eyed.

You will benefit both from gaining a better understanding of women's perspectives on life, AND even more, better understanding of how women view men. As one called to love his wife as Christ loves the Church, and obviously thick-headed enough to ask if you should even do something your wife wants to do rolleyes, you definitely need to watch this movie.

I concur with the consensus on the A&E 1995 (Colin Firth) version being better. So sit down, pay attention - you'll be surprised at how something so silly will be a blessing.


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## py3ak

Ex Nihilo said:


> Matthew Macfadyen doesn't have Colin Firth's puppy eyes and actually seems like a jerk early in the film, and Mrs. Bennet is a real character instead of a caricature of a silly mother (and on that point, Joe Wright may have done more than Austen herself, and I thank him for it). Whether you like the 2005 film as an adaptation or not, it's certainly a better quality movie than the A&E version.



I think what that overlooks, though, is that Austen's world is rather genteel. The A&E version goes a little too far in dehumanizing Mrs. Bennett and some of the minor characters. But when it comes to Mr. Darcy, he's not going to be a _lout_; he's proud, not cruel. But consider the vitally important characters of Jane, Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Wickham and Lady Catherine. They really could not have been improved. 
Macfadyen and Knightley aren't actually very good actors.


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## ColdSilverMoon

KMK said:


> I am a fan of anything that has to do with the *greatest novelist ever*. I even liked Clueless!



Hmmm...fans of Dostoevsky, Tolstoy, Dumas, Dickens, Hemingway, Tolkien - just to name a few - would take great issue with you...


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## Ex Nihilo

py3ak said:


> Ex Nihilo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew Macfadyen doesn't have Colin Firth's puppy eyes and actually seems like a jerk early in the film, and Mrs. Bennet is a real character instead of a caricature of a silly mother (and on that point, Joe Wright may have done more than Austen herself, and I thank him for it). Whether you like the 2005 film as an adaptation or not, it's certainly a better quality movie than the A&E version.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think what that overlooks, though, is that Austen's world is rather genteel. The A&E version goes a little too far in dehumanizing Mrs. Bennett and some of the minor characters. But when it comes to Mr. Darcy, he's not going to be a _lout_; he's proud, not cruel. But consider the vitally important characters of Jane, Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, *Mr. Wickham* and Lady Catherine. They really could not have been improved.
> Macfadyen and Knightley aren't actually very good actors.
Click to expand...


I agree on the the other three, but I think Wickham is miscast. He looks far too old for the role, and he has a conniving air about him from the beginning. It's very difficult to understand why all the girls would be attracted to him. This is something of a superficial criticism, but the actors' looks matter more (to me) in a film version than they would on stage; when I feel like watching a film, I possibly over-value the visual, and I would choose actors who _look_ the part over those who are more technically accomplished.

Knightley and Macfadyen may not be that good, but I don't care for Jennifer Ehle, either, and some of her mannerisms and the way she delivers certain lines annoy me far more than any of the missteps Knightley and Macfadyen made. No complaints about Colin Firth -- he's sympathetic early on, but that's not a huge problem.


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## py3ak

Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's. 
I haven't seen Ehle in anything else, so I can't judge her overall, but in P&P I think her looks and serenity and polite put-downs are done very well. The only part I thought she didn't do terribly well was the aftermath of Mr. Darcy's first proposal.


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## Ex Nihilo

py3ak said:


> Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.
> I haven't seen Ehle in anything else, so I can't judge her overall, but in P&P I think *her looks and serenity and polite put-downs are done very well*. The only part I thought she didn't do terribly well was the aftermath of Mr. Darcy's first proposal.



This is entirely subjective, and I certainly can't claim any knowledge of what good acting is, beyond what I like to watch -- but I find her manner of delivering lines throughout the film much too confident and very artificial. I can't quite put my finger on why it comes across this way to me, and my over-familiarity with the lines in the book may have something to do with it. Maybe the (actually more accurate) gentility in the A&E version seems false to me -- though I also object to the pig in the house in the Joe Wright version!


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## he beholds

Even better than P & P is _Jane Eyre_, both by book and movie (the most recent Masterpiece Theater version!). 

But P & P is very good, and yes, the Colin Firth one!!! I could never understand how women liked him especially as a heartthrob until I saw that movie.


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## asc

well not anything new to add,
but i wanted to give my 2 thumbs up. 

you should watch it cheerfully, Perg, and make your wife happy!
i can't think of a more wholesome, funny romance movie.

ps. i had really enjoyed reading the book before seeing the movies,
so i also enjoyed the A&E version because in my opinion it's a much more faithful 
representation.


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## LadyFlynt

Love the A&E version the best! Sorry, Margaret, but the 40's version of those books are an eyesore when it comes to accurate costuming. Yes, I'm a historical clothing snob. That is probably my favorite part of the movies. The rest is the insightful, and often humorous, spinning of the tale. Austen points out, with ironic circumstances, the flaws in each of us and how we stumble through life for better and for worse.

I've never asked my husband to sit through P&P. I know for a fact he would fall asleep. He has watched Emma, though I could tell that it was neither here nor there with him, he did it willingly and to be with me/please me...there's man-points in that.


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## Timothy William

he beholds said:


> Even better than P & P is _Jane Eyre_, both by book and movie (the most recent Masterpiece Theater version!).
> 
> But P & P is very good, and yes, the Colin Firth one!!! I could never understand how women liked him especially as a heartthrob until I saw that movie.


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## py3ak

Ex Nihilo said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.
> I haven't seen Ehle in anything else, so I can't judge her overall, but in P&P I think *her looks and serenity and polite put-downs are done very well*. The only part I thought she didn't do terribly well was the aftermath of Mr. Darcy's first proposal.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is entirely subjective, and I certainly can't claim any knowledge of what good acting is, beyond what I like to watch -- but I find her manner of delivering lines throughout the film much too confident and very artificial. I can't quite put my finger on why it comes across this way to me, and my over-familiarity with the lines in the book may have something to do with it. Maybe the (actually more accurate) gentility in the A&E version seems false to me -- though I also object to the pig in the house in the Joe Wright version!
Click to expand...


But that's the point - she's quite bold enough. Hence Mr. Darcy takes hope when she won't deny certain things directly to Lady Catherine - he knows she will speak her mind quite plainly.

To those who worry about manliness, let me say two things. One, it isn't _manly_ to worry about enjoying something. Two, if _intelligence_ and _manliness_ are opposed, our definition of manliness needs tweaking.


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## BJClark

py3ak;



> Well, Wickham is not so handsome as he could be - but part of the point is that Mr. Bennett sees through him from the first and Elizabeth doesn't. Her perspicacity is not as developed as her cynical father's.



This is actually an interesting observation, because that is in part the role of a father to his daughter..one who can see through to a young man's true motives, when she can not. 

I believe in part this is also why "non-reformed" and "non-conservative" women also like this movies, they know instinctively that's how 'it should be' even when it is not..

We must also consider how much times have changed since this book was written, and how our own perspective of life and relationships have changed..years ago, women stayed living with their parents until they married..they didn't go away to college and live on their own, they didn't push themselves on men the way many young girls do today, where they hang all over them, the way they showed an interest was different than it is today, and they waited for the man 'take the hint' that they were interested..but as we can see in the movie..many men see that 'lack of pushiness' as a 'lack of interest'..which is also why some folks consider men to be Clueless...


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## Semper Fidelis

Why do women like the movie while men do not:

[ame=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone]Testosterone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/ame]



> Testosterone is a steroid hormone from the androgen group. In mammals, testosterone is primarily secreted in the testes of males and the ovaries of females, although small amounts are also secreted by the adrenal glands. It is the principal male sex hormone and an anabolic steroid.
> 
> In men, testosterone plays a key role in health and well-being as well as in osteoporosis. On average, an adult human male body produces about forty to sixty times more testosterone than an adult female body, but females are, from a behavioral perspective (rather than from an anatomical or biological perspective), more sensitive to the hormone.[1] However the overall ranges for male and female are very wide, such that the ranges actually overlap at the low end and high end respectively.


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## py3ak

Chemical determinism?


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## he beholds

I forgot to say that I like the Keira Knightley version also. I like the BBC one more, probably in large because it is longer, but I would watch either of them over and over. 

My husband likes those enough, but again, he would definitely say _JANE EYRE_. I actually bought the Masterpiece Theater version _for him_! And, our love for the novel Jane Eyre played a part in our becoming friends! I think it is very, very manly (studly) to recognize and appreciate art and beauty. 

I do know that some women are attracted to "Me Tarzan. You Jane." Just not this girl and probably not your wife...show her your romantic side and watch P & P, and then surprise her with [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Jane-Eyre-Masterpiece-Theatre-2006/dp/B000LPQ6DE/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1243715290&sr=8-1"]this[/ame]!


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## Ex Nihilo

BJClark said:


> py3ak;
> 
> I believe in part this is also why "non-reformed" and "non-conservative" women also like this movies,* they know instinctively that's how 'it should be' even when it is not..*



Yes, I think that's exactly right!



py3ak said:


> Ex Nihilo said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is entirely subjective, and I certainly can't claim any knowledge of what good acting is, beyond what I like to watch -- but I find her manner of delivering lines throughout the film much too confident and very artificial. I can't quite put my finger on why it comes across this way to me, and my over-familiarity with the lines in the book may have something to do with it. Maybe the (actually more accurate) gentility in the A&E version seems false to me -- though I also object to the pig in the house in the Joe Wright version!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But that's the point - *she's quite bold enough*. Hence Mr. Darcy takes hope when she won't deny certain things directly to Lady Catherine - he knows she will speak her mind quite plainly.
> 
> To those who worry about manliness, let me say two things. One, it isn't _manly_ to worry about enjoying something. Two, if _intelligence_ and _manliness_ are opposed, our definition of manliness needs tweaking.
Click to expand...


Agreed. My word choice was a little off -- I think Ehle's delivery lacks spontaneity.


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## Southern Presbyterian

I don't care what anyone says, there are serious man-points to be gained by doing something just because my lovely bride asks me to. Watching this movie, the A & E version, was one of those things and I must say that I enjoyed it immensely. It is both smart and funny. Quality entertainment, if you ask me.


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## Archlute

py3ak said:


> Chemical determinism?



God works through means...


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## py3ak

But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.


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## Archlute

py3ak said:


> But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.



Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility


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## smhbbag

> Agreed. My word choice was a little off -- I think Ehle's delivery lacks spontaneity.



That is an excellent point. I had not thought of it that way until you said it, but it's exactly right. This would be one area in which the newer one is better.

*Quickly closes computer window before the wife sees what I've typed*


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## kvanlaan

> I think what that overlooks, though, is that Austen's world is rather genteel. The A&E version goes a little too far in dehumanizing Mrs. Bennett and some of the minor characters. But when it comes to Mr. Darcy, he's not going to be a lout; he's proud, not cruel. But consider the vitally important characters of Jane, Mr. Collins, Mr. Bingley, Mr. Wickham and Lady Catherine. They really could not have been improved.
> Macfadyen and Knightley aren't actually very good actors.



Dude, too far, _too far_! Deep, emotional assessments of _the_ archetypal chick-flick are to be discussed only in the "Tool Shed" and then only if the life of a loved one depends on it.

brother, time to turn in your man card. I thought _I_ was bad.


----------



## Wannabee

I liked both modern versions. The A&E is more of a serial that draws you in quite well. The intrigues and imposition of motive can teach us much. The modern movie was quite good too, I thought. The only problem with it is if you have seen the A&E and expected a movie to capture all that a series did. I think it succeeded in capturing much that is central, but of course couldn't catch it all. 
Pergy, watch the recent movie and you'll get the gist. It's quite engaging and you might even enjoy it. I'd watch it again. Then, when you have time, sit down with the wifey and enjoy the longer version together. She'll appreciate you for it, especially if you can engage her in some discussion on the personalities and interaction involved. 
But then, I still cry at old Coke commercials. 

-----Added 5/30/2009 at 06:43:12 EST-----

Just curious - does it take more manliness to avoid chick flicks, or to gain your wife's appreciation in spite of the ribbing you'll receive from those who are too macho to watch them? I'll take the high road... with my wife, thank you.


----------



## calgal

Kevin and Ruben:

I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!


----------



## py3ak

Archlute said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility
Click to expand...


Real men don't worry about man points. Kevin, that can serve as my answer to you as well. Women are not the only psychological novelists. 

Spontaneity looks different when you have developed stock responses and also have rhythmic patterns of speech. That's why Dr. Johnson's conversation was so smooth - the work of smooth and balanced prose had become instinctive. We don't train ourselves to think evenly and respond smoothly, but you can see the same cultivation of stock responses and a certain pattern of speaking in comedians who learn to ad lib - they've developed the habit. Presumably if comedians can do it, almost anyone can. Especially if the stock responses you want to develop to proclaim your manliness consist of grunts.


----------



## py3ak

calgal said:


> Kevin and Ruben:
> 
> I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!



I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.


----------



## Ex Nihilo

py3ak said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin and Ruben:
> 
> I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.
Click to expand...


I totally agree! I agree more with this conclusion as I get older, too.


----------



## calgal

py3ak said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin and Ruben:
> 
> I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.
Click to expand...


 The screen adaption was done as a chick flick. The problem I had with the 2005 adaption of P&P was that the main characters were country gentry and not yeoman farmers and the film did not seem to recognize the difference.  Yes there is a difference in clothing but not that much of a difference in manners.


----------



## OPC'n

Pergamum said:


> I don't want to force myself to sit through this boring drek....does anyone have the cliff notes as to why women love this show so much and love Mr Darcy, whoever that is.
> 
> Should I sit through it? Have any of you guys done so?



I like the one BBC put out. They are very clean and proper. Really, these (the set of Jane Austen's books done as movies), nature shows and Luther are the only movies I watch.


----------



## LadyFlynt

calgal said:


> Kevin and Ruben:
> 
> I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!



Yes! Persuasion and Emma...definite chick flicks!


----------



## Archlute

py3ak said:


> Archlute said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> But some of those means are contingent and free.... Of course, wrong ideas are another mean God employs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Real men don't worry about man points. Kevin, that can serve as my answer to you as well. Women are not the only psychological novelists.
> 
> Spontaneity looks different when you have developed stock responses and also have rhythmic patterns of speech. That's why Dr. Johnson's conversation was so smooth - the work of smooth and balanced prose had become instinctive. We don't train ourselves to think evenly and respond smoothly, but you can see the same cultivation of stock responses and a certain pattern of speaking in comedians who learn to ad lib - they've developed the habit. Presumably if comedians can do it, almost anyone can. Especially if the stock responses you want to develop to proclaim your manliness consist of grunts.
Click to expand...


Well Ruben, I guess that you have a hard time accepting humor, which would speak less about masculinity or femininity as it would other issues. 

However, I will speak seriously with you at this point. The reason that sitting around and reading novels by a 19th century proto-feminist does not score "man points" with either myself or others is because of (what should be) the normative situation regarding most men. They should have family responsibilities and jobs that engage them in the serious issues of life, with relationships regarding which they provide oversight and care, and really should not be spending their time sitting around being bookish, and especially not being bookish with works by someone like Austen. However, until you have children of your own, and/or are engaged in things more serious than moderating an online forum, I will not expect that to be understood.

You all may go ahead and satisfy yourselves by rattling your literary/theological/satirical sabers now, I will be outside teaching my boys how to shoot...


----------



## calgal

LadyFlynt said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin and Ruben:
> 
> I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes! Persuasion and Emma...definite chick flicks!
Click to expand...


Yup. Although I appreciate zombies and even watch Ice Road Truckers with DH.


----------



## OPC'n

Galatians220 said:


> In my book, he failed in both attempts. Laurence Olivier will always be Heathcliff to me...
> 
> YouTube - Wuthering Heights - Re-issue Trailer 1939
> 
> While I'm very happy with the age that I am now, I do sort of wish that I hadn't been born *way* too late to have, uh, _appreciated_ Laurence Olivier as a contemporary.  (My mom was of an age to appreciate him; she was a "teeny-bopper," so to speak, in 1940, and she told me about him.) Olivier was one of a kind. He will always be Heathcliff and Mr. Darcy to thousands upon thousands of other classic movie fans and that's likely why "Pride and Prejudice" keeps getting remade. No other "Mr. Darcy" could ever hold a candle to Laurence Olivier, though.
> 
> Margaret



This clip of Wuthering Heights is absolutely nothing like the book. There is actually a modern version movie of Wuthering Heights which is more like the book and is pretty good. I had it a long time ago.


----------



## Prufrock

Archlute said:


> Well Ruben, I guess that you have a hard time accepting humor, which would speak less about masculinity or femininity as it would other issues.
> 
> However, I will speak seriously with you at this point. The reason that sitting around and reading novels by a 19th century proto-feminist does not score "man points" with either myself or others is because of (what should be) the normative situation regarding most men. They should have family responsibilities and jobs that engage them in the serious issues of life, with relationships regarding which they provide oversight and care, and really should not be spending their time sitting around being bookish, and especially not being bookish with works by someone like Austen. However, until you have children of your own, and/or are engaged in things more serious than moderating an online forum, I will not expect that to be understood.
> 
> You all may go ahead and satisfy yourselves by rattling your literary/theological/satirical sabers now, I will be outside teaching my boys how to shoot...



This is wholly uncalled for; the irony of taking time to criticize one of spending their time moderating the very webforum in which you level said criticism is baffling, frankly. Implicitly stating that one is neglecting one's duties as a husband because he has taken the time to read a book pushes the boundaries (if it does not shatter them entirely) of respectable speech and begins to resemble slander. Please do not engage in such activities here.


----------



## Theoretical

Archlute said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archlute said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real men don't worry about man points. Kevin, that can serve as my answer to you as well. Women are not the only psychological novelists.
> 
> Spontaneity looks different when you have developed stock responses and also have rhythmic patterns of speech. That's why Dr. Johnson's conversation was so smooth - the work of smooth and balanced prose had become instinctive. We don't train ourselves to think evenly and respond smoothly, but you can see the same cultivation of stock responses and a certain pattern of speaking in comedians who learn to ad lib - they've developed the habit. Presumably if comedians can do it, almost anyone can. Especially if the stock responses you want to develop to proclaim your manliness consist of grunts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Ruben, I guess that you have a hard time accepting humor, which would speak less about masculinity or femininity as it would other issues.
> 
> However, I will speak seriously with you at this point. The reason that sitting around and reading novels by a 19th century proto-feminist does not score "man points" with either myself or others is because of (what should be) the normative situation regarding most men. They should have family responsibilities and jobs that engage them in the serious issues of life, with relationships regarding which they provide oversight and care, and really should not be spending their time sitting around being bookish, and especially not being bookish with works by someone like Austen. However, until you have children of your own, and/or are engaged in things more serious than moderating an online forum, I will not expect that to be understood.
> 
> You all may go ahead and satisfy yourselves by rattling your literary/theological/satirical sabers now, I will be outside teaching my boys how to shoot...
Click to expand...

 

That's one of the most uncharitable, callous responses I've ever read on the PB.


----------



## SarahB

Ahhh...I love P&P! Even my husband loves it and he's very manly..ya know, Star Trek, motorcycles, and welding. He is, many times, the one who says "let's watch P&P" We even analyze the different portrayals of characters from the 3 different movies. "well, I like this Mr. Collins because of..." or "I can't stand this Mr. Bingley..." We have so much fun sitting together, drinking a cup of tea, and watching the A&E version of P&P. It's a good life! Paul is even reading through, albeit slowly, the book. His choice! 
Pride and Predjudice is like comfort food. You know the story so well, that you can quote lines, come in at any time in the movie and still know what's happening... it comforting! Colin Firth as Mr.Darcy is just wonderful; he can pull of the aloof attitude and still come off looking good. And the transformation the he goes through is reassuring and hopeful. I love this story and I love the characters. They have become like old friends to me 
If you like P&P, try reading Pamela Aiden's Mr.Darcy trilogy. It takes P&P from Mr. Darcy's point of view and it is an excellent series! Very well written and worth reading...even the Rev.Whitefield is mentioned  Seriously though, I really recommend the books.


----------



## OPC'n

Archlute said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Archlute said:
> 
> 
> 
> Stop trying to defend your loss of man points - it is an exercise in futility
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Real men don't worry about man points. Kevin, that can serve as my answer to you as well. Women are not the only psychological novelists.
> 
> Spontaneity looks different when you have developed stock responses and also have rhythmic patterns of speech. That's why Dr. Johnson's conversation was so smooth - the work of smooth and balanced prose had become instinctive. We don't train ourselves to think evenly and respond smoothly, but you can see the same cultivation of stock responses and a certain pattern of speaking in comedians who learn to ad lib - they've developed the habit. Presumably if comedians can do it, almost anyone can. Especially if the stock responses you want to develop to proclaim your manliness consist of grunts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Well Ruben, I guess that you have a hard time accepting humor, which would speak less about masculinity or femininity as it would other issues.
> 
> However, I will speak seriously with you at this point. The reason that sitting around and reading novels by a 19th century proto-feminist does not score "man points" with either myself or others is because of (what should be) the normative situation regarding most men. They should have family responsibilities and jobs that engage them in the serious issues of life, with relationships regarding which they provide oversight and care, and really should not be spending their time sitting around being bookish, and especially not being bookish with works by someone like Austen. However, until you have children of your own, and/or are engaged in things more serious than moderating an online forum, I will not expect that to be understood.
> 
> You all may go ahead and satisfy yourselves by rattling your literary/theological/satirical sabers now, I will be outside teaching my boys how to shoot...
Click to expand...


Why are you so angry about a fictional book? Today's movies/tv are *so* much worse than Jane Austen's books. Do you watch movies/tv? If so, you are engaging in worse behavior than if you were to read her books. If anything taught feminism or taught how to break God's commandments without a blush, it is today's Hollywood.


----------



## LadyFlynt

Though some may "claim" Austen to be their proto-feminist, they are seriously missing the core of her books.

Her books, as far as lingual and writing skills go, are quite excellent to imitate.


My jaw about hit the floor over your last post, Adam. That truly was an ungracious thing to say to Ruben and really presumed upon his character.


----------



## Idelette

py3ak said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin and Ruben:
> 
> I may just be a woman but I would say Persuasion would be the movie that impacts the "man points": No swordplay but a very good chick flick. I watched Persuasion with some married friends a number of years ago. We women were on the edge of our seats laughing, crying and cheering while the male in the room fell asleep!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't think much of the screen adaptation, but that is Austen's best book.
Click to expand...


I agree! I absolutely love the story of Persuasion.....one of the best literary works ever! But unfortunately the screen adaptation was not quite as good as the book. Personally, I think they should make another version of it!

Also, for those of you that are Pride and Prejudice fans....I highly recommend _North and South _based on the novel by Elizabeth Gaskell! It is another one of my favorites.... an incredible story! I actually think that men would enjoy this one much more! Just my 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q40sVEDkAXA&feature=related]YouTube - North & South Trailer[/ame]


----------



## py3ak

Archlute said:


> Well Ruben, I guess that you have a hard time accepting humor, which would speak less about masculinity or femininity as it would other issues.
> 
> However, I will speak seriously with you at this point. The reason that sitting around and reading novels by a 19th century proto-feminist does not score "man points" with either myself or others is because of (what should be) the normative situation regarding most men. They should have family responsibilities and jobs that engage them in the serious issues of life, with relationships regarding which they provide oversight and care, and really should not be spending their time sitting around being bookish, and especially not being bookish with works by someone like Austen. However, until you have children of your own, and/or are engaged in things more serious than moderating an online forum, I will not expect that to be understood.
> 
> You all may go ahead and satisfy yourselves by rattling your literary/theological/satirical sabers now, I will be outside teaching my boys how to shoot...



Adam, the humor had been accepted and was being returned - at least that was the intention. 

Now to the task at hand. Calling Austen a proto-feminist is a needless concession to the flawed literary criticism of the feminists. Austen's heroines do not attempt to usurp the role of men. On that point you might enjoy my wife's review of a movie about Austen's life.


----------



## LadyFlynt

py3ak said:


> Calling Austen a proto-feminist is a needless concession to the flawed literary criticism of the feminists. Austen's heroines do not attempt to usurp the role of men. On that point you might enjoy my wife's review of a movie about Austen's life.


----------



## kvanlaan

Ruben, I'm still in the humor vein here, but don't expect much: "Real men don't worry about man points," is the International Girly-Man Association slogan (but sounds great to women). Please tell me you eat steak whenever it is available, and eat it blue-rare. Throw me a bone, brother. If your reply includes something about preferring fish with a delightful chardonnay, I will petition the administrators to deny you access to the Tool Shed. It's just not right.

That being said, though I find Mr Bennet a spineless shadow of a man, the scene following Elizabeth Bennet's rejection of Mr Collins is one of my favorite parts: "An unhappy alternative is before you, Elizabeth. From this day you must be a stranger to one of your parents. -- Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr. Collins, and I will never see you again if you do." A faint glimmer of hope for Mr Bennet's manliness...


----------



## calgal

kvanlaan said:


> Ruben, I'm still on the humor here, but don't expect much: "Real men don't worry about man points," is the International Girly-Man Association slogan (but sounds great to women). Please tell me you eat steak whenever it is available, and eat it blue-rare. Throw me a bone, brother. If your reply includes something about preferring fish with a delightful chardonnay, I will petition the administrators to deny you access to the Tool Shed. It's just not right.
> 
> That being said, though I find Mr Bennet a spineless shadow of a man, the scene following Elizabeth Bennet's rejection of Mr Collins is one of my favorite parts: "An unhappy alternative is before you, Elizabeth. From this day you must be a stranger to one of your parents. -- Your mother will never see you again if you do not marry Mr. Collins, and I will never see you again if you do." A faint glimmer of hope for Mr Bennet's manliness...



That was an awesome moment. Note that Jane Austen had a big problem with spineless men.


----------



## py3ak

Kevin, I will throw you a bone with one hand and take it away with the other. The only fish I ever eat is tuna out of a can. But if steak isn't well-done it's fit only for slavering beasts. However, you will not bring me to believe that a real man is such a pathetic creature as to constantly need _validation_ from the rest of his tribe. Have you not heard about fine, manly independence?

Of course, as a courtesy, I shall not raise the subtle point of your remarkably manly ability to quote the dialogue verbatim. However, it bears pointing out that Mr. Bennett is placed into the ranks of inferior men. He is not, of course, a bounder like Wickham or a fool like Collins; but when Elizabeth calls Mr. Darcy the best man she has ever known, her father is ranked below that height. Although that line and his serene resumption of his reading was excellently carried off.


----------



## kvanlaan

> Kevin, I will throw you a bone with one hand and take it away with the other. The only fish I ever eat is tuna out of a can. But if steak isn't well-done it's fit only for slavering beasts. However, you will not bring me to believe that a real man is such a pathetic creature as to constantly need validation from the rest of his tribe. Have you not heard about fine, manly independence?
> 
> Of course, as a courtesy, I shall not raise the subtle point of your remarkably manly ability to quote the dialogue verbatim. However, it bears pointing out that Mr. Bennett is placed into the ranks of inferior men. He is not, of course, a bounder like Wickham or a fool like Collins; but when Elizabeth calls Mr. Darcy the best man she has ever known, her father is ranked below that height. Although that line and his serene resumption of his reading was excellently carried off.



 I did have to google that quote, you know. 

Yes, continually required validation from the tribe does more to put one into the International Girly-Man Association than anything. However, I still appreciate members of the less-fairer sex to retain certain neanderthal traits. For instance, mincing or prancing with any sense of familiarity to the activity or sashaying of *any* sort should never be seen at any time in any male subject for any reason. It is an undefendable position. Flouncing too.


----------



## py3ak

No argument about the sashaying: when men move in a sideways fashion it should always be a _deadly glide_ or a sort of sidewinderish step.


----------



## Southern Presbyterian

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0lUjhEHlh7s]YouTube - Robin Hood: Men In Tights[/ame]


----------



## LadyFlynt

You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?



(oh the drama...this is funner than watching catty women one-up each other!)


----------



## calgal

LadyFlynt said:


> You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> (oh the drama...this is funner than watching catty women one-up each other!)



I guess we know what is going on in the Tool Shed!


----------



## OPC'n

LadyFlynt said:


> You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> (oh the drama...this is funner than watching catty women one-up each other!)



 All that testosterone in one place!


----------



## kvanlaan

> You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?



Mesdames, it is indeed a ridiculous situation, but I think it can be traced back to the statement that "real men don't worry about man points". That sort of a statement can only mean trouble.

I'm sorry you had to see that.


----------



## Wannabee

calgal said:


> LadyFlynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> (oh the drama...this is funner than watching catty women one-up each other!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we know what is going on in the Tool Shed!
Click to expand...


Actually, there are Craftsman tools and tractors in there too. And we never clean it.

C'mon guys, this is embarrassing...


.


----------



## Beth Ellen Nagle

This is quite an interesting thread...


----------



## kvanlaan

> And we never clean it.



Once in a while we do spray enough Right Guard around to cover the odour. Calvin's 500th is coming up; that sounds like a grand enough occasion. (Occasion, that is, to spray again.)


----------



## Southern Presbyterian

Wannabee said:


> And we never clean it.



Yea, and we mean NEVER!


...and there are Vikings




in there too!


----------



## LadyFlynt

kvanlaan said:


> You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mesdames, it is indeed a ridiculous situation, but I think it can be traced back to the statement that "real men don't worry about man points". That sort of a statement can only mean trouble.
> 
> I'm sorry you had to see that.
Click to expand...




Wannabee said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LadyFlynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> You all DO realise that you are bickering over what how manly a man must be and what the proofs should be of it, right?
> 
> 
> 
> (oh the drama...this is funner than watching catty women one-up each other!)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I guess we know what is going on in the Tool Shed!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Actually, there are Craftsman tools and tractors in there too. And we never clean it.
> 
> C'mon guys, this is embarrassing...
> 
> 
> .
Click to expand...




kvanlaan said:


> And we never clean it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Once in a while we do spray enough Right Guard around to cover the odour. Calvin's 500th is coming up; that sounds like a grand enough occasion. (Occasion, that is to spray again.)
Click to expand...






And now they are trying to prove it to the womenfolk of the board...since they've been busted for acting like a pack of boys


----------



## Southern Presbyterian

...and ....and 




Knights...



...and




swords...

...and





tools. Lots and lots of tools!

Yea, that's the ticket.


----------



## Wannabee

And gunses, and bulletses, and lots of sharp pointy dangerous thingses. I'm tellin' ya, it's dangrus in der. STAY OUT!


Where's Bawb when you need him?

-----Added 5/30/2009 at 10:44:14 EST-----

And a huge wide screen with 7.1 surround sound and lots of really bloody war movies, karate movies, driving movies, football bloopers. We sit on metal chairs with no cushions. There's no heater, and no a/c, and..., Hey! What's this?! Anne of Green Gables?!?!?!?! Who put that in here?


----------



## smhbbag

To possibly redeem my reputation among the neanderthals who do not enjoy this movie, I will be purchasing this in the next week..... a Glock 30.






Has a standard 10-round mag....but lucky for me, the Glock 21's 13-round mag is interchangeable with it.

So, I will be packing 26 rounds (2nd spare mag) of .45 caliber hollow points wherever I go. Does this get my overall man-score back to even?


----------



## willisadair

Jane Austin has had more revival in interest in the 21st century then many orthodox Christian denominations. I think her characters are interesting and she shows that human relationships are far from easy or perfect.

-----Added 5/30/2009 at 11:11:11 EST-----



smhbbag said:


> To possibly redeem my reputation among the neanderthals who do not enjoy this movie, I will be purchasing this in the next week..... a Glock 30.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Has a standard 10-round mag....but lucky for me, the Glock 21's 13-round mag is interchangeable with it.
> 
> So, I will be packing 26 rounds (2nd spare mag) of .45 caliber hollow points wherever I go. Does this get my overall man-score back to even?



Only if you don't carry it beside a dog eared collective works of Jane Austin.


----------



## smhbbag

> Only if you don't carry it beside a dog eared collective works of Jane Austin.



Deal. I'll just make sure I undo all the dog-ears, and then I'll be in compliance


----------



## SueS

Around here we love P&P and watch either the A&E version or the 1940 version regularly. I also enjoyed the one with Kiera Knightly although I've only seen it a couple of times. I would love to make a composite movie using my favorite actors from the various films - Lady Katherine would have to be Edna Mae Oliver (1940), Jennifer Ehl and Colin Firth are the quintessential Elizabeth and Darcy although Greer Garson and Lawrence Olivier run a tight second. All the "Mr Bennets" are great, but I loved Donald Sutherland in that part, also the way "Mary" was portrayed in the 2005 movie. All the "Mrs Bennets" are basically clones of each other and interchangeable. "Mr Collins" from the A&E version is simply classic! 

I agree with Sarah that "Fitzwilliam Darcy, Gentleman" series is a very good read. She gave me the set for Christmas and I've really enjoyed it. The writing is excellent and gives a much appreciated background for understanding Mr Darcy. 

It's amazing that an almost 200yo novel has had such an impact on so many people. It really transends the "chick flick/book" category.


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## willisadair

If the gun doesn't work you can literally throw the book at them.


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## Wannabee

willisadair said:


> If the gun doesn't work you can literally throw the book at them.



groan... This really isn't getting better...


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## David'sBeloved

My girls and I love P&P 

There are very few movies that I can watch more than once and this is one of them. Mrs. Bennet and Lydia are used as examples of how we DON'T want to be. There are many humorous parts of the movie. 

I agree that if you like Jane Austen adaptions you would like _North and South_ or _Cranford_. I haven't watched _Cranford_ in a long time and I don't remember details. _North and South_ has a very uncomfortable kissing scene at the very end. We just turn it off before it gets there since we already know the ending. I can't stand kissing scenes in movies. _Wives and Daughters_ is another one you would enjoy if you like P&P or any of the other movies mentioned.


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## HokieAirman

I thoroughly enjoyed both the book and the 1995 movie, which closely follows it. I would encourage anyone to read it as a matter of education. 

I had a severe crush on my future wife when I read it, so maybe that's why... 

I'm wondering if you posted this just to be ornery....


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## LadyFlynt

HokieAirman said:


> I'm wondering if you posted this just to be ornery....



*gasp!* Not Pergy! Aren't you supposed to think the best of the the brethren?


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## Pergamum

LadyFlynt said:


> HokieAirman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you posted this just to be ornery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *gasp!* Not Pergy! Aren't you supposed to think the best of the the brethren?
Click to expand...



I can smell the sarcasm from here!

It was an HONEST question. A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera, but among the church folks I know Pride and Prejudice seems even more popular.


By the way,

When you are as well-practiced at being ornery as I am, one does not need to "try" to be ornery......


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## Augusta

jpfrench81 said:


> I actually like both versions, but the older one better (I even bought it for my wife as a present and have sat through it TWICE)!
> 
> Lot's of drama among the women. I think the part I like about it is instead of fist fights and guns they make little snarky comments which are a slap in the face. It's funny to think of the way they insulted each other at the time.
> 
> There's also a little intrigue and suspense. If you can get past the first episode, it will probably be better than you think.



The verbal sparring is very fun to watch. Lizzie can leave someone smarting from a master burn done in 3-4 syllable words, perfect grammar, and an English accent to boot. The characters are all very well constructed and well-acted, I am speaking of the 1995 version. My husband loves it.


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## Pergamum

okay guys.....I am sold. I am going to try to find a copy of the A and E version and watch it with my Hunny next month.


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## Sven

If it's the two hour version, it ain't so bad, but if it's the 1,000 hr British version, I'd rather be handed over to the Assyrians to be flayed alive and have salt poured on me.

Seriously, why don't they have a Red Green version?


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## Hadassah

Martin watched the BBC recording with me, twice. THATS love! It is around 5,5 hours.
I absolutely love it. And I´ve seen it at least 10 times. It is nice to see a girly movie where you dont have to reel foreward all the time.(To avoid improper scenes)


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## LadyFlynt

Pergamum said:


> LadyFlynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> HokieAirman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm wondering if you posted this just to be ornery....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *gasp!* Not Pergy! Aren't you supposed to think the best of the the brethren?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I can smell the sarcasm from here!
> 
> It was an HONEST question. A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera, but among the church folks I know Pride and Prejudice seems even more popular.
> 
> 
> By the way,
> 
> When you are as well-practiced at being ornery as I am, one does not need to "try" to be ornery......
Click to expand...


It was a teasing sarcasm, Pergy  along the lines of your last statement...you have no need to "try" to be ornery, you just know how to hit those questions others aren't willing to ask (where's the chicken smiley?)


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## LawrenceU

LadyFlynt said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> LadyFlynt said:
> 
> 
> 
> *gasp!* Not Pergy! Aren't you supposed to think the best of the the brethren?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can smell the sarcasm from here!
> 
> It was an HONEST question. A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera, but among the church folks I know Pride and Prejudice seems even more popular.
> 
> 
> By the way,
> 
> When you are as well-practiced at being ornery as I am, one does not need to "try" to be ornery......
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was a teasing sarcasm, Pergy  along the lines of your last statement...you have no need to "try" to be ornery, you just know how to hit those questions others aren't willing to ask (where's the chicken smiley?)
Click to expand...



Right here:


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## py3ak

Pergamum said:


> okay guys.....I am sold. I am going to try to find a copy of the A and E version and watch it with my Hunny next month.



A good decision. We could have loaned it to you. There is more subtlety at play in the interactions with Mr. Collins than you might suspect.


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## Skyler

Pride and prejudice are wrong. They should be replaced with humility and an open mind.


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## LawrenceU

Pergamum said:


> okay guys.....I am sold. I am going to try to find a copy of the A and E version and watch it with my Hunny next month.



Oh, my dear brother, what every shall we do with you now?





Just kidding. Have fun.


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## rbcbob

Hadassah said:


> Martin watched the BBC recording with me, twice. THATS love! It is around 5,5 hours.
> I absolutely love it. And I´ve seen it at least 10 times. It is nice to see a girly movie where you dont have to reel foreward all the time.(To avoid improper scenes)



Good for you Martin!


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## Galatians220

Pergamum said:


> A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera


 
This is a bit , but I'm just wondering (maybe should do a poll): am I the only one here (women only) who has always considered "Phantom..." to be (1) more than a little creepy (in fact, for me, the Creep Factor goes off the chart), no matter who's playing whom, and (2) a big fat nothingburger?

I know it's supposed to be a modernized classic, but -- _who... cares...?_

(My apologies to anyone I may have unwittingly and unwillingly offended with this woefully unschooled opinion of "Phantom of the Opera." It just always seemed to me to be such a waste of good theater space, for so many years, at the Pantages Theater in Toronto. When I saw it in Detroit, I came away thinking, "So many socks to sort; so little time..."  )

Margaret


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## David'sBeloved

Margaret, I completely agree


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## KMK

Galatians220 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit , but I'm just wondering (maybe should do a poll): am I the only one here (women only) who has always considered "Phantom..." to be (1) more than a little creepy (in fact, for me, the Creep Factor goes off the chart), no matter who's playing whom, and (2) a big fat nothingburger?
> 
> I know it's supposed to be a modernized classic, but -- _who... cares...?_
> 
> (My apologies to anyone I may have unwittingly and unwillingly offended with this woefully unschooled opinion of "Phantom of the Opera." It just always seemed to me to be such a waste of good theater space, for so many years, at the Pantages Theater in Toronto. When I saw it in Detroit, I came away thinking, "So many socks to sort; so little time..."  )
> 
> Margaret
Click to expand...


It is a classic. Classic vanity. Nothing by Lloyd Weber will be considered 'classic' 200 years from now.


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## Idelette

Galatians220 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit , but I'm just wondering (maybe should do a poll): am I the only one here (women only) who has always considered "Phantom..." to be (1) more than a little creepy (in fact, for me, the Creep Factor goes off the chart), no matter who's playing whom, and (2) a big fat nothingburger?
> 
> I know it's supposed to be a modernized classic, but -- _who... cares...?_
> 
> (My apologies to anyone I may have unwittingly and unwillingly offended with this woefully unschooled opinion of "Phantom of the Opera." It just always seemed to me to be such a waste of good theater space, for so many years, at the Pantages Theater in Toronto. When I saw it in Detroit, I came away thinking, "So many socks to sort; so little time..."  )
> 
> Margaret
Click to expand...


LOL! Margaret, I completely agree with you as well! I've never watched the entire thing, because it does make me feel creepy!! Its just such an odd storyline, and I don't find it entertaining at all!


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## Hadassah

Galatians220 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit , but I'm just wondering (maybe should do a poll): am I the only one here (women only) who has always considered "Phantom..." to be (1) more than a little creepy (in fact, for me, the Creep Factor goes off the chart), no matter who's playing whom, and (2) a big fat nothingburger?
> 
> I know it's supposed to be a modernized classic, but -- _who... cares...?_
> 
> (My apologies to anyone I may have unwittingly and unwillingly offended with this woefully unschooled opinion of "Phantom of the Opera." It just always seemed to me to be such a waste of good theater space, for so many years, at the Pantages Theater in Toronto. When I saw it in Detroit, I came away thinking, "So many socks to sort; so little time..."  )
> 
> Margaret
Click to expand...


I agree. But they have the greatest costumes in the new one. Especially the lead caracter.


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## Montanablue

The storyline in Phantom is a bit creepy, I suppose, but the music is superb. (in my opinion). I also think the plot touches on grace and redemption - its not a theological work by any means, but I found some of the themes really interesting.


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## Southern Presbyterian

Phantom of the Opera --- THANKS! Now I'll have that stupid song playing in my head for days......


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## Vonnie Dee

Well for the guys that really don't want to lose their man points for watching or reading P and P, I have a librarian friend that told me she was reading Pride and Predjudice and Zombies. I thought she was telling me that she was reading two books. I said WoW! I love Jane Austen. She corrected me and said that was the title of one book. Perhaps reading about Mr. Darcy getting his face eaten by zombies will help "man up" Jane.


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## LadyFlynt

Montanablue said:


> The storyline in Phantom is a bit creepy, I suppose, but the music is superb. (in my opinion). I also think the plot touches on grace and redemption - its not a theological work by any means, but I found some of the themes really interesting.



The book (yes, there is a novel) was really creepy. I love the music though!


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## Pergamum

Yes, I don't even know the story of Phantom, but it seems to romanticise a stalker situation doesn't it.


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## LadyFlynt

Pergamum said:


> Yes, I don't even know the story of Phantom, but it seems to romanticise a stalker situation doesn't it.



No.


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## Pergamum

Can I have a synopsis of Phantom so I need not see it.


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## LadyFlynt

The Phantom of the Opera (2004) - Plot summary

There is a lady, a hero, and a villain. However, there is created both terror and pity where the villain is concerned. There is background as to how the villain became the way he is and how he came to haunt the theatre with his musical genius (the kind act of the older choreographer and former prima donna).


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## Pergamum

Wow, poor phantom...hard to get the girl if you live in the sewers.




One question about the Phantom of the Opera movie...."Does anything get blow'd up?"


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## KMK

Pergamum said:


> Can I have a synopsis of Phantom so I need not see it.



BAAAAAAAAAAH BAH BAH BAH BAH BAAAAAAAAAAAAAH BAH BAH BAH BAH BAAAAAAAAAAH etc, etc.


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## Galatians220

I've recently dragged out my old "Phantom" sheet music as I was told that playing the piano would be good physical therapy. The "Phantom" music for piano challenges one's right hand quite a bit & that's good for me... Anyway, it seems that the lyrics of "Music of the Night" are thoroughly execrable and repugnant to this now-Christian's ears, soul, etc., and I was thinking I'd do just as poorly trying to listen to the MC5 again. 

Musical "Phantom Of The Opera" Lyrics, The Music Of The Night Lyrics >>

*Bleeaaagh!* 

I was also thinking of old CDs that I have of "Phantom..." & this popped into my head: anyone else remember a little event that took place at Comiskey Park in Chicago in the late '70s? DJ named Steve Dahl? Something about disco?!!!!  _"The Phantom of the Opera is here... And here... And there... And *way* over there..."_ Pergamum: you'd get your wish! (And I'd get mine!)

Margaret

(Off to work now... )


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## KMK

Galatians220 said:


> I was also thinking of old CDs that I have of "Phantom..." & this popped into my head: anyone else remember a little event that took place at Comiskey Park in Chicago in the late '70s? DJ named Steve Dahl? Something about disco?!!!!  _"The Phantom of the Opera is here... And here... And there... And *way* over there...")_


_

I am racking my brain, but have no idea what you are talking about.

Wait a minute...

Did it involve a bomb?_


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## CatherineL

I love Pride and Prejudice partly because my husband reminds me so much of Mr. Darcy.


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## LadyFlynt

Pergamum said:


> Wow, poor phantom...hard to get the girl if you live in the sewers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One question about the Phantom of the Opera movie...."Does anything get blow'd up?"



No, but there is fencing, suspense, and a couple of murders.


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## he beholds

Galatians220 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> A lot of women also seem to like the Phantom of the Opera
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is a bit , but I'm just wondering (maybe should do a poll): am I the only one here (women only) who has always considered "Phantom..." to be (1) more than a little creepy (in fact, for me, the Creep Factor goes off the chart), no matter who's playing whom, and (2) a big fat nothingburger?
> 
> I know it's supposed to be a modernized classic, but -- _who... cares...?_
> 
> (My apologies to anyone I may have unwittingly and unwillingly offended with this woefully unschooled opinion of "Phantom of the Opera." It just always seemed to me to be such a waste of good theater space, for so many years, at the Pantages Theater in Toronto. When I saw it in Detroit, I came away thinking, "So many socks to sort; so little time..."  )
> 
> 
> 
> Margaret
Click to expand...

Ooops.
I love the Phantom of the Opera, both the Toronto musical and the new movie!


----------



## Galatians220

KMK said:


> Galatians220 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I was also thinking of old CDs that I have of \"Phantom...\" & this popped into my head: anyone else remember a little event that took place at Comiskey Park in Chicago in the late '70s? DJ named Steve Dahl? Something about disco?!!!!  _\"The Phantom of the Opera is here... And here... And there... And *way* over there...\")_
> 
> 
> 
> _
> 
> I am racking my brain, but have no idea what you are talking about.
> 
> Wait a minute...
> 
> Did it involve a bomb?_
Click to expand...

_

Sort of. Chicago DJ Steve Dahl absolutely hated disco and had been fired by a station that had adopted the format. So he staged a "Disco Demolition Night" in July, 1979, at Comiskey Park in which, between games of a twinight double-header, people could throw disco records and they would be detonated in center field. (The idea was that there was to be minimal damage to the field so that the second game could be played. That wasn't happening, however.) Here's a description of it: Disco Demolition Night - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia. There's a YouTube video of it, but I wouldn't advise watching it. (Very foul language...)

More people turned up than were expected and more disco records were thrown onto the already enormous pile, so that when the actual demolition occurred, much of the turf of Comiskey Park was destroyed (it was awesome!) and, of course, the second game had to be postponed. Also, people who showed up and wandered around the field while stuff was still burning were not, shall we say, the usual Comiskey denizons and Chicago's Finest had their hands full, arresting people all night. The whole thing was a stunt that Bill Veeck promoted and figured would rake him in a whole lot of cash (as though he needed it). It sort of backfired, though (no pun intended): Steve Dahl's career was pretty much gone and Veeck never really recovered from the "stupid" rep that he was left with in the aftermath of this idiocy.

Anyway, I was picturing zillions of CDs of "Music of the Night" meeting a fate similar to that of a few million John Travolta, Bee Gees and Gloria Gaynor records back in '79... 

It was fun to watch on TV (the language was blipped) because it was, well, Chicago...  (No offense to anyone! I have tons of relatives in Chicago!) We knew it would never happen again, though, because of the shocking amount of damage it caused. 

Margaret

-----Added 6/5/2009 at 01:46:41 EST-----



he beholds said:



Ooops.
I love the Phantom of the Opera, both the Toronto musical and the new movie!

Click to expand...

 
*Oh, I'm sorry!*   Feel free to whale away on... Hmmm, let's see... uh, have I seen any good movies lately? Not really...  

When I think of one, I'll post it!

Margaret_


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## calgal

Guys zombies can make almost anything more manly........


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