# Question from a friend about a baptist joining the Catholic church



## Pergamum (Jan 7, 2015)

Question from a friend. I, too, am curious:



> I need to know if any of my pastor friends or others can answer a question for me.
> 
> If a Baptist desires to join with the Roman Catholic Church why does the priest want to have a copy of said person s baptismal certificate? I have heard a couple of opinions but would something specific. Your insight and knowledge would be greatly appreciated


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## VictorBravo (Jan 7, 2015)

That's RCC bureaucracy. You can't be a member without a certificate of Trinitarian Baptism.

It's an outworking of Trent which says:

"ON THE SACRAMENTS
FIRST DECREE & CANONS

CANON VIII.-If any one saith, that by the said sacraments of the New Law grace is not conferred through the act performed, but that faith alone in the divine promise suffices for the obtaining of grace; let him be anathema."

No proof of act performed: no grace. No grace, no "church" membership.

They do have workarounds, however, but I'd not be the one to encourage that by trying to explain it.


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## Pergamum (Jan 7, 2015)

If baptists are "not the Church," however, then is the act still counted as "performed" or just a pious-looking charade in their eyes? 

I have read Catholic books of instructions for laypersons in the medical field on how to perform a baptism to a dying infant (to keep it out of limbo maybe?).....and so I suppose if they accept baptism by laymen in these emergency cases, they accept a baptist baptism? Though, baptist churches represent a schismatic breakaway?


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## VictorBravo (Jan 7, 2015)

They're formulaic. A baptist baptism would be accepted if there is proof it was done according to the trinitarian formula.

Other baptisms, like lay or unproven baptisms, are handled by a different procedure, usually involving "conditional baptism." The "priest" has to say something to the effect of "if you weren't properly baptized, now you are, if you were, this baptism has no effect."

The formula is all important.


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## whirlingmerc (Jan 7, 2015)

Protestants are sometimes seen as 'separated brothers' and sometimes protestants are in a sense excused because they lived under some type of insurmountable bias that kept them away from the Catholic church. I'm a little surprised since almost certainly he would insist the person be rebaptized


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## earl40 (Jan 7, 2015)

whirlingmerc said:


> Protestants are sometimes seen as 'separated brothers' and sometimes protestants are in a sense excused because they lived under some type of insurmountable bias that kept them away from the Catholic church. I'm a little surprised since almost certainly he would insist the person be rebaptized



What is interesting is that I an one of those who consciously left the RC church and is an anathema according to CANON VIII.....To which I humbly boast, in The Lord, to being such a type if person they think I am.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 8, 2015)

Over the years I've worked with a number of priests. I presently work with one. I've been astonished at the difference in perspective: for me as a Reformed Christian, I can't get Trent off my mind. It is so clear in its pronouncements that there can be no mistaking the conclusions. Yet, 100% of the priests with whom I have interacted act as if Vatican II is the functionally determinitive council. Every time I point out catholic doctrine about councils and then refer them to Trent, they seem to dismiss it along with everything else from that era as part of the entire lamentable state of the church in the middle ages. 

But in the catholic mind we are separated, or sometimes referred to as "misguided" brethren. And frankly, their argument for accepting Protestant baptism seems - to my ears - to ring with the same basic tenor as does the argument of (some) Protestants for accepting Catholic baptism.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 9, 2015)

I'm surprised about this. I actually was a sponsor for someone converting to Roman Catholicism when I was a Senior in HS (I grew up Roman Catholic). The Catholic Church is sacerdotal and the sacrament of baptism infuses grace and regenerates the soul. I'm not aware of the RCC understanding that anyone who has not received the Sacrament of Ordination as a Priest or Deacon is conferred with the sacramental authority to perform a baptism that the RCC would recognize as valid. At the very least, I would think most converts would want to be baptized by the RCC (if they'd allow it) because baptism is like an uber-sacrament that washes away all former sin and regenerates and gives you a blank slate. Any sins you might have performed after that would lead to at least temporal punishment that would need to be purged in purgatory so it would be advantageous to the convert that, if he's going to go the way of idolatry, to ask to be baptized into it and get the full monty.


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## earl40 (Jan 9, 2015)

Semper Fidelis said:


> I'm surprised about this. I actually was a sponsor for someone converting to Roman Catholicism when I was a Senior in HS (I grew up Roman Catholic). The Catholic Church is sacerdotal and the sacrament of baptism infuses grace and regenerates the soul. I'm not aware of the RCC understanding that anyone who has not received the Sacrament of Ordination as a Priest or Deacon is conferred with the sacramental authority to perform a baptism that the RCC would recognize as valid. At the very least, I would think most converts would want to be baptized by the RCC (if they'd allow it) because baptism is like an uber-sacrament that washes away all former sin and regenerates and gives you a blank slate. Any sins you might have performed after that would lead to at least temporal punishment that would need to be purged in purgatory so it would be advantageous to the convert that, if he's going to go the way of idolatry, to ask to be baptized into it and get the full monty.



This phenomena that surprises you also does me....somewhat. Though I wonder sometimes if this type of thing that is happening in the RC "church" is happening in Mormonism. James White called it Folk Mormonism in that when he speaks with them (LDS) he has noticed the morphing away from religious dogmatic beliefs. I know that my parents, before they died, had a RC priest stand up during his homily and said that "None of us is getting to heaven by any works we do" contra to official RC teaching. My mom heard this and poked my dad in the ribs and said "That is what Earl tells us all the time." Our Lord can and does work in mysterious ways and not always for the better towards those who are on the receiving end of His work, though in my parents case it was for the better....I hope. For what the RC "church" does is it takes away any security to those in it, and it also attempts to strip away any hope for family members who know the power of The Cross.


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## TylerRay (Jan 9, 2015)

whirlingmerc said:


> Protestants are sometimes seen as 'separated brothers' and sometimes protestants are in a sense excused because they lived under some type of insurmountable bias that kept them away from the Catholic church. I'm a little surprised since almost certainly he would insist the person be rebaptized



The way I have heard it described is that, if the Roman Church is a ship, we are the barnacles on the underside.


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