# Now this is the type of Christian I hope I can become



## Anton Bruckner (Mar 14, 2005)

Georgia Woman Held Hostage Describes Ordeal
Police Praise Mother as 'Very Cool and Levelheaded'
By DANIEL YEE, AP



CNN


Ashley Smith says she cooked pancakes for murder suspect Brian Nichols as she urged him to surrender.
Video: Hostage Details Ordeal


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ATLANTA (March 14) - For hours, Ashley Smith gently talked to the armed suspect in Atlanta's courthouse slayings, turning from hostage to confidant as they discussed God, family, pancakes and the massive manhunt going on outside her apartment.

''I believe God brought him to my door,'' Smith said Sunday, only hours after her 911 call ended a manhunt for Brian Nichols, who is accused of shooting four people since Friday.

Over the course of the night, Nichols untied Smith, and some of the fear lessened as they talked. Nichols told Smith he felt like ''he was already dead,'' but Smith urged him to consider the fact that he was still alive a ''miracle.''

''You're here in my apartment for some reason,'' she told him, saying he might be destined to be caught and to spread the word of God to fellow prisoners. She told him his escape from authorities had been a ''miracle.''

Smith, 33, later called 911 after she was freed, and police soon surrounded her suburban apartment complex. Nichols gave up peacefully, waving a white towel in surrender.

''I honestly think when I looked at him that he didn't want to do it anymore,'' Smith said. If he did not give up, she told him, ''Lots more people are probably going get hurt and you're probably going to die.''

Police said they were impressed by the way Smith handled herself.

''She acted very cool and levelheaded. We don't normally see that in our profession,'' said Gwinnett County Police Officer Darren Moloney. ''It was an absolutely best-case scenario that happened, a complete opposite of what you expected to happen. We were prepared for the worst and got the best.''

The crime spree began when Nichols allegedly overpowered a courthouse deputy escorting him to his rape trial Friday and took the deputy's gun, then killed the presiding judge and court reporter. He also is accused of killing a deputy who tried to stop him outside the courthouse and a federal agent during his flight from authorities.

Smith said her ordeal began around 2 a.m. Saturday morning with Nichols sticking a gun in her side in the parking lot of her apartment when she returned from a store.


Bloodshed in Atlanta 




He tied her up and told her to sit in the bathroom while he took a shower. ''He said, 'I'm not going to hurt you if you just do what I say,''' she said. He told her: ''I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to hurt anybody else.''

Choking back tears Sunday, she said she told Nichols that her husband died four years ago and if he hurt her, her little girl wouldn't have a mother or father. Smith's attorney, Josh Archer, said her husband died in her arms after being stabbed.

The two talked about the Bible and she handed him photos of her family. When morning came, Nichols was ''overwhelmed'' when Smith made him pancakes with real butter, she said. He told her he ''just wanted some normalness to his life,'' she said.

The two watched television news reports about the slayings and the manhunt. ''I cannot believe that's me on there,'' Smith quoted Nichols as saying.

When Nichols finally let Smith go to see her 5-year-old daughter, he said he wanted to stay at the apartment for a few more days. She said she thought he knew she was going to call 911 after she left.

Nichols could appear in federal court as early as Monday to face a charge of possession of a firearm by a person under indictment, the charge authorities are using to keep Nichols in custody while they sort out charging in the slayings, said U.S. Attorney David Nahmias.


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The Fulton County District Attorney's Office hopes to formally charge Nichols with the new crimes within 30 days, spokesman Erik Friedly said Sunday. Fulton County District Attorney Paul Howard still would like to resolve Nichols' interrupted rape retrial.

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution reported Monday that a courthouse surveillance camera recorded Nichols' initial surprise attack on Deputy Cynthia Hall but that no one in the control center noticed the assault.

''It's not just horrible, it was preventable,'' Senior Superior Court Judge Philip Etheridge told the newspaper.

A video camera, which is supposed to be monitored by two guards in a command post, shows Nichols and the deputy arriving in the holding area between two courtrooms, according to a law enforcement official who saw the tape. The video shows Hall guiding Nichols, whose hands are still handcuffed behind his back, into one of two open cells.

Hall releases one cuff and turns Nichols around to unhook the remaining cuff. But the muscular, 33-year-old Nichols then lunges at Hall, knocking the petite, 51-year-old grandmother backward into another cell. Both disappear from camera view. Two to three minutes later, Nichols emerges from the cell, holding Hall's gun belt and police radio. He picks up her keys from the floor and locks her in the cell.

A few minutes later, he emerges in civilian clothes. He locks the door behind him and calmly walks out of the holding area, carrying the gun belt, according to the official who saw the tape.

Judge Etheridge said Hall should not have been alone with Nichols, a former college linebacker who had been found with two sharpened door hinges in his socks earlier in the week.

Hall remained in critical condition Sunday, Grady Memorial Hospital officials said. Killed were Superior Court Judge Rowland Barnes, court reporter Julie Brandau, Sgt. Hoyt Teasley and U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agent David Wilhelm.


03-14-05 0517EST

Copyright 2005 The Associated


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 14, 2005)

Wow, that's pretty impressive of her! God was with her for sure.


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## Anton Bruckner (Mar 14, 2005)

God was more than with her, God was in her working His will out. Can you imagine cooking pancakes with real butter???????????? and serving it to an armed criminal. Only God could possess a person to do something so out of this world, that yields fruits of peace.


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 14, 2005)

Oh, definately!


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## LadyFlynt (Mar 14, 2005)

I read that this morning...How wonderful is the Lord?!-

I remeber a woman who was carjacked by a serial rapist. The same thing basically happened. She was a Christian, stayed calm (though naturally was a little tearful and fearful), talked to the man, told him that whatever happens she would forgive him and then started talking to him about Christ (after he asked her how she could be so calm knowing what he was).

As Christians, I believe we face trials and death differently than many around us. Even nurses in a hospital will tell that you see almost tell a Christian from one who is not by the way they die (peacefully and accepting vs fighting it every step of the way) and Christian parents of fatally ill children are usually less angry.

What a Peace His Grace brings!


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## ChristianasJourney (Mar 14, 2005)

Hey, if I cooked pancakes, for a criminal or not, they're made with REAL butter. 


I think she did a terrific job, though. It shows where her heart is. Her dh died in her arms from stab wounds, yet despite her past grief, and no doubt concern, her trusting in God is truely evident.

Same thing, I think with Lisa Beamer...though I never read her book. But to me both are true examples of grace while under fire. And I hope that I would act similarly under trying circumstances.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 14, 2005)

She's a heroine! God be praised!


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 14, 2005)

Hope everyone doesn't mind.  I'm linking this page to a secular discussion board I frequent so they can not only read the article, but also the comments from the community. 

Time to break out of the huddle.


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## fredtgreco (Mar 14, 2005)

Good call Kerry!


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## BobVigneault (Mar 14, 2005)

She read a passage from the Purpose Driven Life to the killer. Mr. Warren didn't need it but he's about to get a whole bunch more publicity. Why couldn't she have read some Lloyd-Jones or even Sproul to him? Oh well.


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## Anton Bruckner (Mar 14, 2005)

well its good that she read something merely religious to him. When I first came to the faith, I was the typical Dispensational etc. But after immersion I gradually moved to the Reformist doctrine of Calvin. But we have to get people in the faith to begin with.

If they come through the Dispensational way or come through the straight Reformist Calvinist way, to me it doesn't matter, as long as they come.


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 14, 2005)

Yep, I just heard about the PDL thing too. While the Lord was still with her, this was kind of a bummer in a way. However, if Mr. Warren uses this to advertise his PDL book it will make me want to


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## Joseph Ringling (Mar 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Yep, I just heard about the PDL thing too. While the Lord was still with her, this was kind of a bummer in a way. However, if Mr. Warren uses this to advertise his PDL book it will make me want to



One thing that I've noticed about Rick Warren that I like is that he doesn't come across as flashy and super self promotional ala Benny Hinn and most TV Preachers, in every interview I've ever read or seen with him he's seemed really humble and down to earth.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 14, 2005)

The thing I love about being Reformed is that there is always a way to take the excitement and joy out of a good situation.


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## ANT (Mar 14, 2005)

That's an incredible story!


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> The thing I love about being Reformed is that there is always a way to take the excitement and joy out of a good situation.




God worked well before Sproul, Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon or any of our wonderful men of the reformed faith were born. And God worked and *CONTINUES* to work in churches that are not REFORMED or CALVINISTIC, effectively calling His people, saving and preserving them and working in them, despite bad theology, to conform them to His image for His glory and our good.

Despite Warren's philosophy, I do believe He's a brother in the Lord. And the Lord _has_ used his material, in spite of the errors, to bring a whole new set of folks into considering the Christian faith (and some TO faith). We say that the Lord doesn't _need_ us, but to consider it an honor when He does use us. What about when He uses others, who, though they don't hold the same theological convictions and traditions, nevertheless still serve the same God as we do, albeit imperfectly ??







A case of RATS if I've ever seen it.....

Praise be to God *alone* that _anyone's material_ was used.

[Edited on 3-14-2005 by OS_X]


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 14, 2005)

Hey, I have no problem with the PDL being used I suppose, but I will if Warren uses this situation to shill his book.


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## lwadkins (Mar 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> The thing I love about being Reformed is that there is always a way to take the excitement and joy out of a good situation.



I have to say this is a fallacious and tiresome take on the reformed faith.
This is certainly not being charitable to those whom you believe are not being charitable. Not to mention seeming arrogant and condescending.
I assume that these comments were intended at least somewhat in jest, and this is not intended to be a personal critique, but only referencing this comment.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by lwadkins_
> I have to say this is a fallacious and tiresome take on the reformed faith.
> This is certainly not being charitable to those whom you believe are not being charitable. Not to mention seeming arrogant and condescending.
> I assume that these comments were intended at least somewhat in jest, and this is not intended to be a personal critique, but only referencing this comment.



Call it what you will... but taking the joy and excitement out of this great moment was _precisely_ what was occuring. Can I get a witness?
Of course we can all say what we would have preferred to happen in our own ideal world, but to nay say right in the context of what truly was a remarkable thing seems... well...


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## BobVigneault (Mar 15, 2005)

Hey Ben, I'm trying to take you seriously while I'm looking at your avatar and I gotta say, it's a challenge. I mentioned the Rick Warren connection because it was a part of the story but I admit I mean't the mention to be a sardonic commentary. I was jesting. My timing wasn't the best because everyone was in mid-gush over a truly remarkable story.

The rest of my joke was: the lesson to be learned here is you never know when you're going to be taken hostage and make national news so plan now what book you wish to be associated with and wish to plug. 

Ben, I'm not saying your undies may be in a knot but if they are half as tight as that tee shirt you're wearing then you can't be very comfortable. 

Sorry for my ill-timed jest, I was acting independantly and my words should in no way impune the reformed faith, calvinists or those who subscribe to the WCF, LBCF or 3FU.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> Hey Ben, I'm trying to take you seriously while I'm looking at your avatar and I gotta say, it's a challenge.


 Hey, man! When I do _reps_ of 10 I bench 200! So take that seriously! 




> Ben, I'm not saying your undies may be in a knot but if they are half as tight as that tee shirt you're wearing then you can't be very comfortable.




Actually, the tee shirt is one of those Under Armour "Heat Wear" shirts. It is supposed to fit like a "second skin." It works remarkably well for wicking sweat away and keeping you dry. (Incidentally, they also produce this tee shirt in brown and this is in use by some of our troops in Iraq.)
I wear the red one because my wife likes it. 

By the way... thanks for clarifying. No problem. I just thought that given that this thread is being posted on a secular forum, that perhaps it didn't put Reformed folks in the best light... Thanks for the humility!

[Edited on 3-15-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## govols (Mar 15, 2005)

The red t-shirt seems to be hanging over your jogging pants (I assume) a tad bit. Hey, it's table muscle for my mid section.


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## Anton Bruckner (Mar 15, 2005)

table muscle hehehehe funny 

[Edited on 3-15-2005 by Slippery]


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by govols_
> The red t-shirt seems to be hanging over your jogging pants (I assume) a tad bit. Hey, it's table muscle for my mid section.



Doh! After looking at the picture I can see why you think that! But, thankfully, my belly doesn't hang over my pants.


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## Anton Bruckner (Mar 15, 2005)

why don't you imitate the deeds of the Blue States and Liposuction it away. You will come back with ripped sculptured abs, and maybe we can see you on an MTV music video:bigsmile:


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Yep, I just heard about the PDL thing too. While the Lord was still with her, this was kind of a bummer in a way. However, if Mr. Warren uses this to advertise his PDL book it will make me want to



CNN has posted an earlier Larry King interview with Rick Warren here  and is giving new attention to his book.


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## JasonGoodwin (Mar 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Yep, I just heard about the PDL thing too. While the Lord was still with her, this was kind of a bummer in a way. However, if Mr. Warren uses this to advertise his PDL book it will make me want to



Everytime I hear about that book I want to  and . It is really hard to strike a balance these days with being absolute and to shun pragmatism. Mr. Warren quoted some well-known God-haters, Aldous Huxley and Bertrand Russell, in his book. Nevertheless, perhaps some good fruit will come out of this tragedy. Whilst the world will be quick to condemn Mr. Nichols, I hope this reminds me to pray for men like him. After all, most people would not have thought that Brian "Head" Welch (formerly of Korn) and Saul of Tarsus (later Paul) would have been converted. I think I've said enough on this for now.


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by houseparent_
> ...



Some quotes from that interview;



> at our church, we have disorganized religion.



Well there you go!



> I liked what The New York Times said about me. It said, you know, marketers create a message in order to market. Warren creates tools in order to create a message, in order to propel a message. And that's it.



huh?



> I think a gay person is a sinner just like I'm a sinner.



Why are so many Christian big-wigs afraid of this question?



> Now, I don't know a self-help book in the world that starts with, "It's not about you.



I've read PDL, and while the opening line does state "It's not about you" the entire book *IS* about the reader!


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## lwadkins (Mar 16, 2005)

I agree Adam, and I bought and read this book to be able to debate in an informed manner with my mother, sister, brother-in-law and nieces husband who were entranced with it. Sigh, I could have use that money to buy a much more profitable book from which I could have been exhorted to learn more about my God.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 17, 2005)

CNN did a two-hour special last night on Rick Warren and _The Purpose Driven Life_. It did include a critique by John MacArthur. It also attempted to trace the history of "purpose driven" theology all the way back to the Pilgrims! 



[Edited on 3-20-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## BobVigneault (Mar 17, 2005)

8:00pm
11:00pm
The O'Reilly Factor
"œThe Purpose Driven Life" helped Atlanta hostage Ashley Smith through her ordeal. Author Rick Warren tells you how the book could help you! (cc)

This is me not commenting.


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## JasonGoodwin (Mar 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> 8:00pm
> 11:00pm
> The O'Reilly Factor
> ...



_Oh, great!_ I have just one question for Mr. Warren: What is your god? Almighty God or the not-so Almighty Dollar?

He's certainly not recommending the Bible now, is he???


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> CNN did a two-hour special last night on Rick Warren and _The Purpose Driven Life_. It did include a critique by John MacArthur. It also attempted to trace the history of "purpose driven" theology all the way back to the Pilgrims!



I actually saw that. I flipped into it before I went to bed the other evening.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 18, 2005)

In Brother Warren's defense, he wasn't on Fox to use the recent event to promote his book. It was all Fox's doing. They were using the recent event as an excuse to replay an interview from Dec 17, 2004. So it was Fox whoring for ratings points and not Rick Warren plugging the book that is 'flying off the shelves'.

As for me, I'm just going to keep reciting the Prayer of Jabez til this all blows over.


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 18, 2005)

You're right Bob, good point.



> As for me, I'm just going to keep reciting the Prayer of Jabez til this all blows over.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 18, 2005)

still more RATS.....

*smh*


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## Shane (Mar 19, 2005)

> As for me, I'm just going to keep reciting the Prayer of Jabez til this all blows over.


 [/quote]

Oh boy that was good.


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## Puritanhead (Mar 19, 2005)

*Rick Warren - Not that Guy!?*



> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> God worked well before Sproul, Lloyd-Jones, Spurgeon or any of our wonderful men of the reformed faith were born...
> 
> Despite Warren's philosophy, I do believe He's a brother in the Lord. And the Lord _has_ used his material, in spite of the errors, to bring a whole new set of folks into considering the Christian faith (and some TO faith). We say that the Lord doesn't _need_ us, but to consider it an honor when He does use us. What about when He uses others, who, though they don't hold the same theological convictions and traditions, nevertheless still serve the same God as we do, albeit imperfectly ??





The book ain't perfect, but it ain't all wrong either. Warren isn't perfect, but neither am I. We're sojourners passing through this troubled world... sinners saved by grace.

:bigsmile:


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> CNN did a two-hour special last night on Rick Warren and _The Purpose Driven Life_. It did include a critique by John MacArthur. It also attempted to trace the history of "purpose driven" theology all the way back to the Pilgrims!



Here is a statement by MacArthur on his CNN appearance.


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 20, 2005)

Never speak to CNN


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## lwadkins (Mar 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Never speak to CNN



Especially about your faith if you want it represented fairly.


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## Shane (Mar 20, 2005)

Typical secular media isnt it?


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 20, 2005)

Shame.

Utter shame on CNN.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 25, 2005)

Rick Warren has become a media darling.


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## lwadkins (Mar 25, 2005)

Andrew, that article nearly made me sick.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by lwadkins_
> Andrew, that article nearly made me sick.



Sorry, I didn't mean to start a barforama!


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## lwadkins (Mar 25, 2005)

Especially that line about; I not changing the message, only the method.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 25, 2005)

My "favorite" was: "When David said, 'The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want,' why did he say that? Well, because David was a shepherd...Today, I don't think it's any less appropriate for the businessman to say, 'The Lord is my CEO' or 'The Lord is my manager.' You can't just assume terminology today is understandable. I work very hard at being a translator."


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 25, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JasonGoodwin_
> _Oh, great!_ I have just one question for Mr. Warren: What is your god? Almighty God or the not-so Almighty Dollar?
> 
> He's certainly not recommending the Bible now, is he???



Just as a note (and I think someone already mentioned it), Warren has given back to his church all of his usual salary from his church several times over and only takes in money from royalties on books. In addition, he gives away money pretty freely.

Money isn't his motive. I believe he's a brother in the Lord and if you read his writings, he's really got a heart for people (unlike some of the folks who carry the name 'reformed' or 'calvinistic' that I've come into contact with) - his pragmatism and methodology are the major issues. 

PDL, like any other 'tool' made by men, is fallible, imperfect, but God can still and does still work through those tools, even beyond their mistakes.


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## lwadkins (Mar 25, 2005)

Brother in the Lord or not, he is in gross error.


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## JasonGoodwin (Jul 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by JasonGoodwin_
> ...



I understand that, Kerry. The same thing could be said about the Puritans. As much as they sought to rightly divide the Word of Truth (2 Tim 2:15, which, by the way, is my favorite verse in the whole of Scripture), they weren't without shortcomings. They all knew about Man's Total Depravity, and they all knew that if it wasn't for Almighty God saving them from Death and Eternal Punishment, they would be nothing and also subject to His wrath.

The problem is that we're talking here about a writer who has a Doctorate in Ministry from Fuller Theological Seminary. I have heard that the theology they teach is a bit suspect. (If anyone can back me up on this rumor with actual facts, please do so.) I am not asking Warren to be perfect. I would just prefer if he would not have further erased the line between Truth and Error (which he did in such glaring fashion in his book).

As for Ashley Smith, I pray that she matures in her walk in Christ to move away from that book and to study Scripture exclusively. The Purpose Driven Life should not be used as the standard by which all Christians are to live. Rather, I would recommend (if some feels so compelled to read something other than the Bible) The Pilgrim's Progress. John Bunyan did not cut any corners when he wrote that book. It certainly was not for financial gain. Nevertheless, it was quite humbling when I read it. I can't say I felt the same way about PDL.

Not trying to be harsh, just giving my  worth.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 19, 2005)

> By His Grace,
> Jason Goodwin
> 2 Tim 2:15
> 
> ...



Jason,

How can you hold to reformed doctrine and not attend church? This sounds like a form of disobedience.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 19, 2005)

> I would recommend (if some feels so compelled to read something other than the Bible) The Pilgrim's Progress. John Bunyan did not cut any corners when he wrote that book. It certainly was not for financial gain. Nevertheless, it was quite humbling when I read it.



I would also recomment the confessions...


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## Poimen (Sep 28, 2005)

Update on Ashley Smith story...

http://www.challies.com/archives/001336.php

God moves in a mysterious way...


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

So THAT's why PDL is so popular! That explains a lot!


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## Richard King (Sep 28, 2005)

I have heard two reports today about "shocking revelations" that are in this hostage lady's new book. It turns out that while she was captured in her own house...she gave her captor some crystal meth she had left over. No mention yet as to whether that was Purpose Driven or not but it sure seems like an odd plan to me.


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

Can we assume that she maybe tweaked the message a little?


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## Anton Bruckner (Sep 29, 2005)

crystal meth???????? I hope she kicks that habit permanently. that ain't a drug to mess around with.


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## Calvibaptist (Sep 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> Can we assume that she maybe tweaked the message a little?



She didn't change the message, just the method.


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## calgal (Sep 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Calvibaptist_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by turmeric_
> ...


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## ChristopherPaul (Sep 30, 2005)

This past Wednesday, my pastor did a message on Proverbs 16 discussing speech. In conclusion he said that we shouldn't be quick to trust an eyewitness because as depraved men, we are inventors of evil. Eyewitnesses tell accounts as if we must know, more than anything, what happened. Usually we can bank on the fact that the story from the eyewitness will be exaggerated to some extent.

I am not doing his message justice, but take my word for it, it was good! 

But seriously it brought to light passages about confirming facts by two or more witnesses and confronting the person who is being talked about, etc.


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