# Cowboy Church Movement



## Carl Copsey (Mar 24, 2014)

Hi. I was wondering what anyone thought about the Cowboy Church Movement. Any comments? Thanks.


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## SeanPatrickCornell (Mar 24, 2014)

I am against any kind of "Church Movement" that doesn't consider all believers to be the same regardless of social status, color, or national origin, etc.

I am also against any "Church Movement" that caters to just one element of the social stratum. I don't mind "outreach organizations" that do that, but "Churches" should never. 

In my humble opinion.


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## Jash Comstock (Mar 24, 2014)

In my opinion it is just another flavor of the seeker sensitive movement. Instead of urban churches using pop music and coffee to attract young hipsters, it's rural churches using rodeos and Will Rogers roping tricks to attract folks. The fundamental problem with both is that they use some "hook" to get folks in church. The gospel is all powerful on it's own, it needs no hook. Naturally each church will adapt to some degree to the culture around it (country churches have members flannel clad whilst urban churches have more business suits) but culture should _never_ be used as "bait" for the gospel.
Also, you'll notice that these cowboy churches are largely charismatic, nondenominational, and experience focused rather than doctrine focused. That says a lot about the quality of such a movement.


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 24, 2014)

I agree. Thank you guys. The pastor to the local Cowboy church is reformed. But he is also heavily into this movement. I have preached there a couple times (at the Pastors request and its members) and they have asked my wife and I to hold a purity conference with the teenagers. We are hoping to invite the other church groups to participate in this conference. We have also been working with this church's youth. But both the pastor and I are reformed and God seems to be working at this church. I certainly agree with the statements above.

However, I feel convicted to also seek other opinions and advice from fellow believers. And what better place than here. Thank you.


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## Unoriginalname (Mar 24, 2014)

SeanPatrickCornell said:


> I am against any kind of "Church Movement" that doesn't consider all believers to be the same regardless of social status, color, or national origin, etc.
> 
> I am also against any "Church Movement" that caters to just one element of the social stratum. I don't mind "outreach organizations" that do that, but "Churches" should never.
> 
> In my humble opinion.



I do agree that the Cowboy Church "Movement" (I hope it is not a true movement) is silly I think it is more a case of take principles that can be good on their own, to the extreme. I think there is nothing wrong with setting out to reach a cultural group, but what is a true cultural group? I think people are divided by things like language, not style. So I think an Spanish Church, French Church, Urdu church, Farsi church, Korean church, etc. makes sense and is appropriate. Those language groups exist stateside and it is a good thing to reach out. A cowboy church though seems like reaching out to appeal to a style preference than a true distinct group of people. I would imagine a church in a rural area occupied by "cowboys" may have a more cowboy feel, without really attempting, just as an inner city church would feel more "hipster" even if they did not set out that way. The difference is setting out to make a church that specifically caters to a style. I think we need to places churches where there are unreached people, not make flavor of the month churches.


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## Andres (Mar 24, 2014)

SeanPatrickCornell said:


> I am against any kind of "Church Movement" that doesn't consider all believers to be the same regardless of social status, color, or national origin, etc.
> 
> I am also against any "Church Movement" that caters to just one element of the social stratum. I don't mind "outreach organizations" that do that, but "Churches" should never.
> 
> In my humble opinion.


 In Texas, the Cowboy churches are very popular. My experience has found them quite weak on theology. There are obviously always exceptions to this, but even if a Cowboy Church had a more sound theology, these types of churches are antithetical to the true gospel, which calls "all men" to repentance, not just cowboys. Imagine a "Doctor's Church" or a "Teacher's Church".


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## Jack K (Mar 24, 2014)

Carl Copsey said:


> I have preached there a couple times (at the Pastors request and its members) and they have asked my wife and I to hold a purity conference with the teenagers.



When churches, camps, schools, etc. invite me to come and talk to kids about Jesus, I generally say yes even if the church or group is one I wouldn't choose to be a member of myself and is one with which I might find significant faults. Where we have opportunities to share the gospel, I think the usual response should be to go and share. Speak the truth about Christ, and if it doesn't fit with that group's way of thinking, let them be the ones to cut off the relationship.


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## Mushroom (Mar 24, 2014)

Unoriginalname said:


> A cowboy church though seems like reaching out to appeal to a style preference than a true distinct group of people.


You evidently have no experience with cowboy culture. Definitely a distinct culture, although I'm not keen on the concept.


Andres said:


> In Texas, the Cowboy churches are very popular.


Well... it's Texas. But you have to concede, Andrew, that there is a distinct goat-roper culture throughout Texas, right? My cousins fit that bill, and attend cowboy churches. Over the years they seem to have grown in grace to an extent that I would consider them sincere believers.

I would feel pretty awkward at a cowboy church, but then I remember when my brother moved up here to VA from TX, and went to an Anglican church (he'd come from an Episcopal church in Ft Worth) here dressed in typical Texan western suit attire. They treated him like he was an escapee from the local psych ward. So, I can see the comfort some folks might find in that setting.


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## Andres (Mar 25, 2014)

If someone is made to feel unwelcome at a church due to their attire, then obviously that local church has a major problem. However, the solution isn't to start up churches exclusive to the offended group.


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## Unoriginalname (Mar 25, 2014)

Mushroom said:


> You evidently have no experience with cowboy culture. Definitely a distinct culture, although I'm not keen on the concept.


I don't and I was not trying to minimize the differences in regional culture. I was only trying to highlight that there is a significant difference between two English speaking Americans in different parts of the country and two people who speak totally distinct languages. As someone who grew up in the inner city now attending a rural church, I get there are differences in regions and subcultures, but I do not think the answer is to make churches that specifically cater to subcultures by creating a christian version of that subculture.


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## Free Christian (Mar 25, 2014)

Reminds me of the Youth Services they used to have at a church I once went to. Not youth services on other days but in place of the proper worship service.
They may attract people and put smiles on their faces and look like go ahead ministries but is that how the Bible outlines worship?
A proper church will accept people from all walks of life and make none feel uncomfortable to the point they need to start a new type.


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## SRoper (Mar 25, 2014)

Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.


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## Hamalas (Mar 25, 2014)

SRoper said:


> Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.





Well done sir.


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## Mushroom (Mar 25, 2014)

SRoper said:


> Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.


Problem is, these people groups are resistant to assimilation, preferring to remain in separatist enclaves. They share this proclivity with the various nerd tribes we see dispersed around the North American continent. Whether festooned in bolos or bowties, these poor folks need to be reached!


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## Hamalas (Mar 25, 2014)

Mushroom said:


> SRoper said:
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> > Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
> ...



I'm pretty sure this was supposed to be a joke...


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## C. M. Sheffield (Mar 25, 2014)

Carl Copsey said:


> Carl Copsey
> Youth Minister
> Student of Theology
> JC3 Church
> Jasper, TX



Carl, 

Your signature seems to indicate that you're the Youth Minister of JC3 Church which stands for "Jasper County Cowboy Church." So I'm confused. Is this a movement you've had some dealings with (like your post suggests) or that your actually within (as your signature indicates)?


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 25, 2014)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Carl Copsey said:
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> > Carl Copsey
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Hi C.M. Sorry for my lack of clarity. I wanted peoples opinions and hear the voices of those who had something to say. Yes, I work with the youth group at JC3 though I am not a cowboy.  I have only been a member for about 5 months and I have had some recent concerns and I wanted to hear what people were thinking. Our pastor is also reformed (he has been in position for 9 months). The church has had no discipleship programs and the teaching prior had been very milky. In spite of my concerns, I believe God had put me here. That evidence is clear to me. And if you know anything about East Texas...you may understand that a little more. I live in a place where EVERYONE is a "christian." 

As you can well imagine, my Pastor and I are in a good position to influence biblical truth. I would say that this church is also the fastest growing in our area. And more reformed seem to be popping up now. It has been amazing and I can't wait to see what the Lord is doing. Recently I've been asked to come and visit First Baptist who are without a Pastor and youth minister. They came to my house, took my wife and I out for lunch, we all had a great conversation and they asked if I would come and speak to their youth group. Well, I called them back to set up a date and one member on the board was offended that I am reformed (though no one else cared), so this is an issue now. So, Lord willing, I will be meeting with the Interim Pastor tomorrow.


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## Jash Comstock (Mar 25, 2014)

Carl, I'm curious to know, does this church line up with your confessional statement (which I'm assuming is the LBCF)? I am not trying to be rude, but you've already mentioned that the teaching has been milky and there are no discipleship programs, what exactly convinces you that "God led you here"?


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## Mushroom (Mar 25, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> Mushroom said:
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> > SRoper said:
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Umm, yes... yes it was, Ben.


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## Hamalas (Mar 25, 2014)

Mushroom said:


> Hamalas said:
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> > Mushroom said:
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Wait. So your comment was a joke as well? 

It's a joke within a joke: INCEPTION!!!

Nothing gets by me...except for the things that do.


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 25, 2014)

Jash Comstock said:


> Carl, I'm curious to know, does this church line up with your confessional statement (which I'm assuming is the LBCF)? I am not trying to be rude, but you've already mentioned that the teaching has been milky and there are no discipleship programs, what exactly convinces you that "God led you here"?



Actually, yes it does, simply because it is "open" in a sense for the reformed view. We are in a unique position here. This is a heavily arminian area. There is no church, at least that I am aware of, that holds to that confession. This includes the First Baptist churches around here. However, the sovereign hand of God is very evident and we are amazed to see first hand at what God is doing. I assure you, my doctrinal standards and thinking line up with my heroes: B.B. Warfield and R.C. Sproul and I get skeptical on many grounds. This area needs the reformed faith.

There were no discipleship programs when I started. However, before I made any commitment we discussed a goal in mind and what that would look like and discipleship programs are coming into fruition. It's like building a church from the ground up. Those programs begin on the 6th. People are excited to see these changes. There is a "history" here, but it seems God is shaping this church with reformed thinking and solid biblical expository teaching and preaching. The changes are slow....which is expected...but they are happening. Faster now than before. What we need is your prayer and we would certainly appreciate it. We are dedicated to God's sovereignty, the doctrines of grace and the biblical teaching the reformers and puritans bring. We lay at the feet of Jesus.

I think, in general, cowboy churches are seeker-sensitive, a movement I strongly oppose, but this church is shifting. It wasn't originally a cowboy church, there is room for change.


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## Jash Comstock (Mar 25, 2014)

Carl Copsey said:


> Jash Comstock said:
> 
> 
> > Carl, I'm curious to know, does this church line up with your confessional statement (which I'm assuming is the LBCF)? I am not trying to be rude, but you've already mentioned that the teaching has been milky and there are no discipleship programs, what exactly convinces you that "God led you here"?
> ...



I understand your predicament. You just weren't clear that they lined up at all with your doctrinal position. I didn't mean to come off intrusive.


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## Free Christian (Mar 25, 2014)

Hi Carl. Just curious, do non cowboy believers go to the cowboy church as well? Is it just cowboys in one and non cowboys in another? I suppose what really makes me wonder is, is there a plan, sort of, to teach them that the church is for all and to bring them all together eventually? To break down the barriers between the two and have all united under the one roof in Christ as it should be? I get that with some things steps need to be taken but I could see if none were that there would end up being another fragment in the church overall. Galatians 3 v 28 Colossians 3 v 11
Just my thoughts.


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 25, 2014)

Free Christian said:


> Hi Carl. Just curious, do non cowboy believers go to the cowboy church as well? Is it just cowboys in one and non cowboys in another? I suppose what really makes me wonder is, is there a plan, sort of, to teach them that the church is for all and to bring them all together eventually? To break down the barriers between the two and have all united under the one roof in Christ as it should be? I get that with some things steps need to be taken but I could see if none were that there would end up being another fragment in the church overall. Galatians 3 v 28 Colossians 3 v 11
> Just my thoughts.



Well, I'm not a Cowboy.  All is welcome. But be careful! They may try to get a hat and boots on ya' eventually!! LOL!!


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 25, 2014)

Jash Comstock said:


> Carl Copsey said:
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> > Jash Comstock said:
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Oh I didn't think you did. I thank you for making sure I'm on my toes and clear minded. After all, that is one reason for the existence of this board, is it not? I thank you.


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## Andres (Mar 25, 2014)

Carl Copsey said:


> Well, I'm not a Cowboy.  All is welcome.



So if everyone is welcome there, then why is the church named "Cowboy Church"? This name actually says the opposite - this church is for cowboys. If you show up in a suit and tie, you'll be out of place. By name alone, your group is alienating a large segment of the community.


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 25, 2014)

Andres said:


> Carl Copsey said:
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> > Well, I'm not a Cowboy.  All is welcome.
> ...



Actually, we do have those in suits and ties. And there is a big sign out front that says: "Come As You are." Sometimes I wear a t-shirt. I do agree with what you say about the name. But isn't, for example, "First Presbyterian Church" or "First Baptist Church," in essence, doing the same thing in alienation? What we can do, in some cases, work from the inside out as the Lord sovereignly and strategically places his people where he wants them. We do his bidding, He will work it out.


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## SRoper (Mar 25, 2014)

Mushroom said:


> SRoper said:
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> > Cowboy churches and presbyteries are probably fine as a temporary measure while cowboys are still assimilating and learning the language of the majority culture. It's the best solution to a difficult problem.
> ...



Oh, man, nerd church! We could meet in the basement of another church. It would be great.


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## Jash Comstock (Mar 25, 2014)

Carl Copsey said:


> Andres said:
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I would say identifying as Baptist or Presbyterian is much different than identifying as "cowboy". Identifying our denomination gives a clear declaration of who we are, and exactly what we believe. Identifying as a cowboy church says nothing about beliefs, it only describes style.


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## Carl Copsey (Mar 26, 2014)

Jash Comstock said:


> Carl Copsey said:
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I agree with that. Absolutely. And I wasn't suggesting anything more (sorta  )...but I think there is also a point to be made here. When I walk into a First Baptist Church, the fact is, you don't know what they believe anymore. Check out the debate from the sbc with Mohler and Patterson.


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## VictorBravo (Mar 26, 2014)

Jash Comstock said:


> I understand your predicament. You just weren't clear that they lined up at all with your doctrinal position. I didn't mean to come off intrusive.



Just a side note of clarification. 

The PuritanBoard rules don't require one to belong to a church that holds to a confession, although that is the ideal. The rules require a member to hold to a confession and belong to a local church. In some cases, members are allowed to join even if they are not a member of a local church but have submitted themselves to a local church's authority (as in a Presbyterian who can only find a Baptist church to attend, and who cannot be a formal member of that church under its particular rules). 

Not everyone here can find a confessional church to join.


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## Mushroom (Mar 26, 2014)

SRoper said:


> Mushroom said:
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I can think of quite a few pulpit nominees from the PB membership (and you know who you are), and a quite large number of laity as well. It could be a movement! The Star Wars/Trek sermon references and admonitions to Keep Calm might get a tad overused, but it'd be worth it for the cause...


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## VictorBravo (Mar 26, 2014)

Mushroom said:


> I can think of quite a few pulpit nominees from the PB membership (and you know who you are), and a quite large number of laity as well. It could be a movement! The Star Wars/Trek sermon references and admonitions to Keep Calm might get a tad overused, but it'd be worth it for the cause...



Two things: 

1. I'm a cowboy and a nerd. I'm about equally happy roping calves as I am programming homemade PIC microcontrollers. But I'm still not clear about the difference between a nerd and a geek. Maybe I'm a geek. But I think I qualify as a nerd because of my interest in slide rules. Anyway, I'm willing to sign on to the next movement, as long as I don't have to join anything.

2. What's this "Keep Calm" meme I keep seeing. I'm too lazy to Google it tonight, so you don't need to send me the infamous google it link. All I know is Seattle's famous Ivar's motto: "Keep Clam," which is something I always strive to do.


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## Jash Comstock (Mar 26, 2014)

VictorBravo said:


> Jash Comstock said:
> 
> 
> > I understand your predicament. You just weren't clear that they lined up at all with your doctrinal position. I didn't mean to come off intrusive.
> ...


You are right, I didn't mean to imply that. I was unsure that his church lined up at all with his doctrinal standards, it was a misunderstanding on my part.


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## Mushroom (Mar 26, 2014)

VictorBravo said:


> 1. I'm a cowboy and a nerd. I'm about equally happy roping calves as I am programming homemade PIC microcontrollers.


You, sir, are a truly unique individual, one specially suited to bridge the gap between these two widely divergent people groups. I nominate you to head a mission of conciliation between them. Geeks -n- goat-ropers, nerds -n- herds, whovians -n- yahoos, and of course... bolos and bowties; a whole host of terms come to mind for this eclectic ecumenicism. 


VictorBravo said:


> 2. What's this "Keep Calm" meme I keep seeing.


Not entirely certain, but I think it has something to do with a medical professional and a '60's rock band engaged in some sort of staring contest.


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## Jash Comstock (Mar 26, 2014)

VictorBravo said:


> 2. What's this "Keep Calm" meme I keep seeing. I'm too lazy to Google it tonight, so you don't need to send me the infamous google it link. All I know is Seattle's famous Ivar's motto: "Keep Clam," which is something I always strive to do.



It is based on a poster made during the second world war. The poster said "keep calm and carry on" and was marked by King George's crown. It was intended to spur the British people on to courage and resiliency during the bombings and other terrors. The poster recently was found after being put away for decades, and since then has gone viral with folks using it as sort of a fill in the blank "keep calm and "


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## Philip (Mar 26, 2014)

VictorBravo said:


> Not everyone here can find a confessional church to join.



And some of us (and I daresay our brother Carl is one of them) may be called to engage in reformation of churches.


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## VictorBravo (Mar 26, 2014)

Jash Comstock said:


> The poster recently was found after being put away for decades, and since then has gone viral with folks using it as sort of a fill in the blank "keep calm and "



Well, that's what puzzled me. I remember hearing about the poster more than 10 years ago, which made me wonder, "why now?"


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## VictorBravo (Mar 26, 2014)

Philip said:


> And some of us (and I daresay our brother Carl is one of them) may be called to engage in reformation of churches.



Right.


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## Free Christian (Mar 29, 2014)

Carl Copsey said:


> Well, I'm not a Cowboy. All is welcome. But be careful! They may try to get a hat and boots on ya' eventually!! LOL!!


 That'd be ok Carl, just so long as no lasso's are involved.


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