# Cringe-worthy No Quarter November trailer



## Pergamum (Nov 27, 2019)

Here is the trailer, featuring Douglas Wilson. It is for "No Quarter" November, whatever that is...






In short, this video is cringe-worthy. It is embarrassing to watch.

It reminds me of that Elizabeth Warren video where she tries to look like an average American by drinking a beer on camera, but it just looks forced and awkward.

Or an even better analogy is when Presidential candidate Michael Dukakis, who was sort of a wimp, tried to look tough by riding in a tank. But the photo-op of him in an over-sized helmet made him look like a small 12-year old boy and it tanked his political career.

Well, the same for this video. Many Reformed guys seem to be trying to act manly. Wilson is simply trying too hard here to look like a Barney Bad-Butt.

Some young reformed guys almost cannot take a selfie without being posed with a bottle of scotch, a cigar, showing off their tattoo, and with their beard glossed. It is all a sort of reformed vanity. The Doug Wilson video is a good example of that. Very cringe-y.

A soft middle aged guy complaining about the West being soft as he spits, and holds gasoline in a field and talks about "disciplining it [an issue] with a canoe-paddle" (1:03).

The video is entitled "No Quarter" as if we are to kill the prisoners? And he speaks of being a pirate and hoisting the Jolly Rogers? The only thing missing is a Cowboy hat. Why isn't he strapped with a side-arm, I wonder.

Meanwhile, after complaining of soft men, he can barely sit down in his flowery sofa at 1:13 without grunting.

Everything about this short video clip is cringe-worthy. The whole clip seems to show that he thinks much too highly of himself.

I really believe that this is how NOT to do a promo video.

Reactions: Like 2 | Amen 1 | Funny 1


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## ZackF (Nov 27, 2019)

The most cringeworthy thing is pouring gas while smoking!

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1 | Funny 3


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## Pergamum (Nov 27, 2019)

ZackF said:


> The most cringeworthy thing is pouring gas while smoking!



I bet he replaced the gas with water because down deep he is just a girly man poser, and girly man posers are afraid of girly things like lighting their heads on fire.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 27, 2019)

Tyrannical Theonomy? Whatever. That sounds just as bad as the oxymoron Depraved Christianity. The pendulum just wants to swing. I love the balance our Standards give us. I pray more men and women will hold up in them.

edit... I was informed I misheard Tyrannical. He says Piratical Theonomy evidently. That is still just as bad and an oxymoron.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Pergamum (Nov 27, 2019)

At 1:03, as an example of giving no quarter, Wilson speaks of "disciplining with a canoe paddle", which is oddly one of the things for which the Reformed Baptist ARBCA pastor was convicted of abuse for...not a great use of imagery given the present season.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Sad 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 27, 2019)

ZackF said:


> The most cringeworthy thing is pouring gas while smoking!



Darwin Awards

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 27, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Wilson speaks of "disciplining with a canoe paddle"



Like threatening to release a victim of statutory rape's journals if she doesn't keep quiet.
http://www.moscowid.net/2016/02/27/fifty-shades-of-guile/

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 27, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Like threatening to release a victim of statutory rape's journals if she doesn't keep quiet.
> http://www.moscowid.net/2016/02/27/fifty-shades-of-guile/



At least he signed his letter, "Cordially in Christ."


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## A.Joseph (Nov 27, 2019)

I’m not sure how this kinda stuff is helping???
“The premiere episode, which has received 73,000 views as of press time, included a news segment that discussed the firing of Trump Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci for his crude language, “presidential drunk texting” and Trump’s ban on transgenders in the military, as well as concerns about the recent Vogue article that teaches youth how to engage in sodomy.

“[T]rust me, this one was easy to find the butt of the joke,” Durbin jested in regard to the sodomy how-to article, later adding that years ago, teens were rather taught about driving and “how not to rear-end someone.”


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## Pergamum (Nov 27, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> I’m not sure how this kinda stuff is helping???
> “The premiere episode, which has received 73,000 views as of press time, included a news segment that discussed the firing of Trump Communications Director Anthony Scaramucci for his crude language, “presidential drunk texting” and Trump’s ban on transgenders in the military, as well as concerns about the recent Vogue article that teaches youth how to engage in sodomy.
> 
> “[T]rust me, this one was easy to find the butt of the joke,” Durbin jested in regard to the sodomy how-to article, later adding that years ago, teens were rather taught about driving and “how not to rear-end someone.”



Ugh. I will pass on all of this "hip" Christianity stuff.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Taylor (Nov 27, 2019)

I thought the video was kinda cool, and Wilson is saying things that need to be said, in my opinion. If someone among us doesn’t like it or him, there are plenty of alternatives to tickle our fancies, isn’t there?

Also, he said “Piratical Theonomy,” not “Tyrannical Theonomy.”

Reactions: Like 6


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## Bill The Baptist (Nov 27, 2019)

ZackF said:


> The most cringeworthy thing is pouring gas while smoking!



A lit cigar, or cigarette for that matter, is not hot enough to ignite gasoline or gasoline fumes. The reason they don’t want you to smoke at gas stations is because you might light one up while you’re there, and the flame from a lighter or match is more than hot enough to ignite gasoline.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Charles Johnson (Nov 27, 2019)

Doug has a dry sense of humor. It's not try-hard posing if it's intended to be humorous and self-aware.

Reactions: Like 2


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## B.L. (Nov 27, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> In short, this video is cringe-worthy. It is embarrassing to watch.





Pergamum said:


> Well, the same for this video. Many Reformed guys seem to be trying to act manly. Wilson is simply trying too hard here to look like a Barney Bad-Butt.





Pergamum said:


> A soft middle aged guy complaining about the West being soft as he spits, and holds gasoline in a field and talks about "disciplining it [an issue] with a canoe-paddle" (1:03).
> 
> The video is entitled "No Quarter" as if we are to kill the prisoners? And he speaks of being a pirate and hoisting the Jolly Rogers? The only thing missing is a Cowboy hat. Why isn't he strapped with a side-arm, I wonder.
> 
> ...





Pergamum said:


> I bet he replaced the gas with water because down deep he is just a girly man poser, and girly man posers are afraid of girly things like lighting their heads on fire.



Are these comments really necessary? I understand why Mr. Doug Wilson is controversial and his views the subject of much critique, but what exactly did you hope to achieve by ranting about the man like this? I think the man deserves better and after profiting from much of what you've written over the years I know you to be better as well.

Reactions: Like 2 | Amen 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 27, 2019)

Paul: And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome

Reactions: Like 4


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## bookslover (Nov 27, 2019)

Can't this untrained self-ordained nut just go away already?

Reactions: Like 2 | Amen 3


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## Charles Johnson (Nov 27, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Paul: And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome


This thread on the whole seems pretty quarrelsome.

Reactions: Like 2 | Amen 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 27, 2019)

Charles Johnson said:


> This thread on the whole seems pretty quarrelsome.



It's the essence of anything connected with a man who boasts that his "theology bites back."

Reactions: Like 5


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## Taylor (Nov 27, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Paul: And the Lord’s servant must not be quarrelsome





BayouHuguenot said:


> It's the essence of anything connected with a man who boasts that his "theology bites back."



So, our theology should affect nothing? Influence no one? Make a difference nowhere? Challenge no philosophy? Make no one angry?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 28, 2019)

Some quarrels are needed.


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## KMK (Nov 28, 2019)

Separated at birth???

Reactions: Funny 1


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I bet he replaced the gas with water because down deep he is just a girly man poser, and girly man posers are afraid of girly things like lighting their heads on fire.



Sounds like someone has...


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## Pergamum (Nov 28, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Sounds like someone has...


I don't understand your picture. Is the child locked in the house until the grampa sharpens his ax enough to chop him up?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## bookslover (Nov 28, 2019)

KMK said:


> View attachment 6415
> 
> Separated at birth???



I'd forgotten about him. Another nut.


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## bookslover (Nov 28, 2019)

Charles Johnson said:


> Doug has a dry sense of humor. It's not try-hard posing if it's intended to be humorous and self-aware.



Don't be fooled by the sense of humor.

Reactions: Like 3 | Amen 1


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## TheBruisedReed (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I bet he replaced the gas with water because down deep he is just a girly man poser, and girly man posers are afraid of girly things like lighting their heads on fire.


Not one week ago did you advise me (with truly AMAZING and GODLY wisdom) to be gracious and loving in my dealings with others. You shared this sage advice on my thread about preparing for a debate with a professing atheist. Brother, there's a way to disagree with other men. This is not the way.

Reactions: Like 2


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## RamistThomist (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> So, our theology should affect nothing? Influence no one? Make a difference nowhere? Challenge no philosophy? Make no one angry?



He is a contentious fellow with a long history of pirating churches, harming the sheep, blackmailing victims, etc. He is also not a real minister. His theology that "bites back" reminds me of another verse

But if you bite and devour one another, watch out that you are not consumed by one another.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Pergamum (Nov 28, 2019)

TheBruisedReed said:


> Not one week ago did you advise me (with truly AMAZING and GODLY wisdom) to be gracious and loving in my dealings with others. You shared this sage advice on my thread about preparing for a debate with a professing atheist. Brother, there's a way to disagree with other men. This is not the way.



Awww, but that advice was for OTHER people.... not for me!  

Ok, so how do I criticize how corny this trailer is without calling it corny?


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## TheBruisedReed (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Ok, so how do I criticize how corny this trailer is without calling it corny?


Saying the trailer is awkward or corny is no sin, friend. I'm simply saying you may want to pull back on the reins a bit.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Pergamum (Nov 28, 2019)

TheBruisedReed said:


> Saying the trailer is awkward or corny is no sin, friend. I'm simply saying you may want to pull back on the reins a bit.



OK, thanks. Will do (or at least try). God bless.

Reactions: Like 1


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 28, 2019)

KMK said:


> Separated at birth???


Gene Scott? That goes back a few years.


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## Taylor (Nov 28, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> He is a contentious fellow with a long history of pirating churches, harming the sheep, blackmailing victims, etc.



Do you have hard evidence for and documented example of this (i.e., not a blog article written by yourself)?

Reactions: Like 1


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> Do you have hard evidence for and documented example of this (i.e., not a blog article written by yourself)?


Taylor, have you not followed the James White / Douglas Wilson / FV thread? The documentation is out there. This is not being pulled out of thin air or from Jacob's mind.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Taylor (Nov 28, 2019)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Taylor, have you not followed the James White / Douglas Wilson / FV thread? The documentation is out there. This is not being pulled out of thin air or from Jacob's mind.



Sure, I've been following it. But I haven't noticed any evidence posted or cited with regard to things like harming the sheep (outside of issue people have with his doctrine), and especially not blackmail. That's a serious charge. Perhaps you could point me to a specific post within that thread that has the evidence I seek.

Furthermore, I don't even know what "pirating churches" means. That's the problem with Jacob sometimes; he throws out all these words that sound really bad and evil, but refrains from defining exactly what he means and giving clear, documented examples. It's like when liberals protest "fascism."

And let me be clear: I have no interest in defending any false doctrine in anyone, no matter who or where they are. But I am not as quick as some folks on this forum to throw everything out someone says or contributes simply because we slap some nasty labels on them.

Reactions: Like 1 | Amen 1


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 28, 2019)

Sorry Taylor, I got some discussions mixed up. I am looking for the other thread now. We recently had a discussion about this. I will get back to you in a few with the thread. Gotta find it.


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## Taylor (Nov 28, 2019)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Sorry Taylor, I got some discussions mixed up. I am looking for the other thread now. We recently had a discussion about this. I will get back to you in a few with the thread. Gotta find it.



Fair enough, and I appreciate it. If I can see some convincing evidence and examples, then I will happily and gladly stand corrected, and publicly admit it. And I hope I can be forgiven for being reluctant to believe things that are said about anyone without evidence being presented to me. I think that is only right.


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## Pergamum (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> Sure, I've been following it. But I haven't noticed any evidence posted or cited with regard to things like harming the sheep (outside of issue people have with his doctrine), and especially not blackmail. That's a serious charge. Perhaps you could point me to a specific post within that thread that has the evidence I seek.
> 
> Furthermore, I don't even know what "pirating churches" means. That's the problem with Jacob sometimes; he throws out all these words that sound really bad and evil, but refrains from defining exactly what he means and giving clear, documented examples. It's like when liberals protest "fascism."
> 
> And let me be clear: I have no interest in defending any false doctrine in anyone, no matter who or where they are. But I am not as quick as some folks on this forum to throw everything out someone says or contributes simply because we slap some nasty labels on them.



Are we talking about the Jacob here on the PB? I used to (a long time ago) think he also pulled weird stuff into discussions. But I soon learned that he can, indeed, provide footnotes and links to all he claims. I would take his accusations seriously. I checked into the sources he gave about Wilson and they are quite troubling. Take him seriously, he might be one of the best resources here on the PB.

Reactions: Like 3 | Amen 2


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Are we talking about the Jacob here on the PB?


Pergy, Where did we recently discuss Wilson, Sexual abuse, FV, self ordination, Pastoral bullying, being in cahoots with sexual predators? My Mom called 15 minutes ago and I need to be ready to go to my Sister's for TG dinner in 15 minutes. I still need to get cleaned up and dressed. Can you find the thread for me? Please.


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## Taylor (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Are we talking about the Jacob here on the PB? I used to (a long time ago) think he also pulled weird stuff into discussions. But I soon learned that he can, indeed, provide footnotes and links to all he claims. I would take his accusations seriously. I checked into the sources he gave about Wilson and they are quite troubling. Take him seriously, he might be one of the best resources here on the PB.



I appreciate the anecdote, but I still would like to see some hard evidence. That's all I'm asking for. I don't think it's too stringent to refuse to simply take one person's word for it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 28, 2019)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Pergy, Where did we recently discuss Wilson, Sexual abuse, FV, self ordination, Pastoral bullying, being in cahoots with sexual predators? My Mom called 15 minutes ago and I need to be ready to go to my Sister's for TG dinner in 15 minutes. I still need to get cleaned up and dressed. Can you find the thread for me? Please.


I am not sure I can find all that again 15 minutes, Maybe tomorrow?


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I don't understand your picture. Is the child locked in the house until the grampa sharpens his ax enough to chop him up?


You're a clever guy. It'll come to you.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## ZackF (Nov 28, 2019)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Pergy, Where did we recently discuss Wilson, Sexual abuse, FV, self ordination, Pastoral bullying, being in cahoots with sexual predators? My Mom called 15 minutes ago and I need to be ready to go to my Sister's for TG dinner in 15 minutes. I still need to get cleaned up and dressed. Can you find the thread for me? Please.


Please dress before posting on PB.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Pilgrim (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> Do you have hard evidence for and documented example of this (i.e., not a blog article written by yourself)?



He can answer for himself, but I suspect that the "pirating churches" charge has to do with several churches (and perhaps especially ministers) who have rightly been disciplined (or threatened with discipline) or put out of NAPARC denominations being welcomed into the CREC with open arms. Wilkins and Sproul Jr are probably the most well known examples.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Edward (Nov 28, 2019)

When I saw the picture, I thought this thread was about the late Gene Scott. Beard - check. Cigar - check.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> Do you have hard evidence for and documented example of this (i.e., not a blog article written by yourself)?



Police and court records are on that site. I've linked to them probably a dozen times in the past few years. That relates to the Sitler/Wight sex scandals.

As to the pirating a church, it was in the Dakota Presbytery of the OPC. I can dig up the records if you want.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I appreciate the anecdote, but I still would like to see some hard evidence. That's all I'm asking for. I don't think it's too stringent to refuse to simply take one person's word for it.


http://www.presbyteriannews.org/volumes/v8/2/pr32.pdf
http://www.presbyteriannews.org/volumes/v5/2/Carbondale.html
http://www.presbyteriannews.org/volumes/v5/1/SecretTrial.html


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## RamistThomist (Nov 28, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Are we talking about the Jacob here on the PB? I used to (a long time ago) think he also pulled weird stuff into discussions. But I soon learned that he can, indeed, provide footnotes and links to all he claims. I would take his accusations seriously. I checked into the sources he gave about Wilson and they are quite troubling. Take him seriously, he might be one of the best resources here on the PB.



Like police records? Aquila Reports? Presbytery Records? My being part of the La. Presbytery when it dissolved due to the false teaching of the Federal Vision? Yeah, I am making all of this up. (I know, Perg, you aren't implying that I am).

Reactions: Like 2


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## RamistThomist (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> and especially not blackmail. That's a serious charge. Perhaps you could point me to a specific post within that thread that has the evidence I seek.



I posted it on one of the threads in the last few days. Can't find it. Here it is.
http://www.moscowid.net/2016/02/27/fifty-shades-of-guile/

(all the links are there)


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## Taylor (Nov 28, 2019)

I never said anyone is making anything up here, and to imply otherwise is a lie. I merely refuse to believe labels, names, and assertions without evidence. I figured that among folks who value the Law of God this would not be such a controversial personal policy.

I will look into what has been presented here. Thanks.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A.Joseph (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I never said anyone is making anything up here, and to imply otherwise is a lie. I merely refuse to believe labels, names, and assertions without evidence. I figured that among folks who value the Law of God this would not be such a controversial personal policy.
> 
> I will look into what has been presented here. Thanks.


Hi, I’m not looking to pile on. But if this man has taught heresy at one time, shouldn’t he lay low and remain humble before getting back on a soapbox? Not sure he has earned a pass. I can’t speak for the rest, but on the FV stuff alone, isn’t he pretty disqualified at this point, especially with all the self-grandizing he does. If we need to lift up a reformed culture warrior we can do better. He’s no RC Sproul.

Reactions: Like 4 | Amen 1


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## kodos (Nov 28, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I never said anyone is making anything up here, and to imply otherwise is a lie. I merely refuse to believe labels, names, and assertions without evidence. I figured that among folks who value the Law of God this would not be such a controversial personal policy.
> 
> I will look into what has been presented here. Thanks.



I assume that since 2014 (when the PB says you joined as a member) you have not perused too many of the DW threads. The stuff in there is often quite disturbing and gross.

While I had no idea about the blackmail charge until now, it didn't _surprise_ me, sadly. I think you are right to ask for proof.

As for the video that @Pergamum posted: few things are sadder than watching a man grow older without dignity.

Reactions: Like 7


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> You're a clever guy. It'll come to you.



I get it now. The old man is out sharpening his farm tools as a good example to his son to keep his tools sharp. You can't cut down a tree with a dull ax, after all, right? 

Or, you are still mad at me because I pointed out the awful events that have happened within the Reformed Baptist Association of ARBCA over the last several years where they let a church into their fellowship when the pastor was known to be undergoing an investigation over child abuse and several of the pastors covered up these facts and even enabled the abuser to move to pastor a different church and teach children at a different school, thus bringing shame to Reformed Baptists as a whole. Maybe that's it. And yes, I have an ax to grind when it comes to folks who soft-pedal child abuse by the clergy. Clergy abusers out to be locked up, clergy sexual abusers ought to be castrated with dull lawn sheers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Like police records? Aquila Reports? Presbytery Records? My being part of the La. Presbytery when it dissolved due to the false teaching of the Federal Vision? Yeah, I am making all of this up. (I know, Perg, you aren't implying that I am).



I compare you to Alex Jones, brother (in a good way). He says something that, at first glance, seems way out there...and then, upon further investigation, I gasp and say, "Oh man, Jacob was really RIGHT!.....again." I have benefited from you a lot (particularly on the Trinity and Satanism topics).

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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

ZackF said:


> Please dress before posting on PB.



Fresh outta the shower....right to the PB! Priorities!

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Andrew35 (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Clergy abusers out to be locked up, clergy sexual abusers ought to be castrated with dull lawn sheers.


"Cringe-worthy" is right. Now an unpleasant image is in my head. :'(

Reactions: Funny 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I compare you to Alex Jones, brother (in a good way). He says something that, at first glance, seems way out there...and then, upon further investigation, I gasp and say, "Oh man, Jacob was really RIGHT!.....again." I have benefited from you a lot (particularly on the Trinity and Satanism topics).



The only difference is I am saying stuff that was accepted as common knowledge on PB in 2016. All of this is old stuff. OPC pastors knew of this for decades. We had several threads on PB in 2016 about Christ Kirk's sex scandals. Now Wilson is getting unofficial support in these threads. People would have been banned for that in 2008. I got moderated once or twice.

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## gjensen (Nov 29, 2019)

Attention getting marketing, and it is working.

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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> The only difference is I am saying stuff that was accepted as common knowledge on PB in 2016. All of this is old stuff. OPC pastors knew of this for decades. We had several threads on PB in 2016 about Christ Kirk's sex scandals. Now Wilson is getting unofficial support in these threads. People would have been banned for that in 2008. I got moderated once or twice.



Wow. Sorry to hear that. Sometimes a snake in cold weather lies dormant and we start getting too comfortable around it.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I compare you to Alex Jones, brother (in a good way).



The compliment of compliments.

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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> The compliment of compliments.



Jacob never snuck into the Bohemian Grove to expose the world elites wearing drag and then donning robes to burn a human effigy to the Owl God Molech, though. That still puts Alex Jones on top.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## RamistThomist (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Jacob never snuck into the Bohemian Grove to expose the world elites wearing drag and then donning robes to burn a human effigy to the Owl God Molech, though. That still puts Alex Jones on top.



I've dreamed about doing that, including escape routes.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Connor Longaphie (Nov 29, 2019)

Look at how that Cigar is canoeing OooooooooooooooOOOOOOoooo boy


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

Connor Longaphie said:


> Look at how that Cigar is canoeing OooooooooooooooOOOOOOoooo boy



? Is this cigar lingo?


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## arapahoepark (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> ? Is this cigar lingo?


They're smoke rings.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Or, you are still mad at me because I pointed out the awful events that have happened within the Reformed Baptist Association of ARBCA over the last several years where they let a church into their fellowship when the pastor was known to be undergoing an investigation over child abuse and several of the pastors covered up these facts and even enabled the abuser to move to pastor a different church and teach children at a different school, thus bringing shame to Reformed Baptists as a whole. Maybe that's it. And yes, I have an ax to grind when it comes to folks who soft-pedal child abuse by the clergy. Clergy abusers out to be locked up, clergy sexual abusers ought to be castrated with dull lawn sheers.



You exhibit an over-active imagination if you think I was ever mad at you over the ARBCA scandal. Neither my church or myself have ever been apart of the association. And the way they handled the Tom Chantry case makes me very happy to have had no part of it. The friends I have who pastor ARBCA churches have left the association or are in the process of doing so. And from what I know of these matters, that sounds like the right decision. 

But as always, you assume too much in these discussions, throw around a lot of baseless accusations and end up just sounding like an unhinged woke-scold.


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## Connor Longaphie (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> ? Is this cigar lingo?


"Simply put, "*canoeing*" refers to one side of the *cigar* burning faster than the other side. Left unfixed, this will eventually split the *cigar* in half (making it resemble a *canoe*, hence the name)."

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> You exhibit an over-active imagination if you think I was ever mad at you over the ARBCA scandal. Neither my church or myself have ever been apart of the association. And the way they handled the Tom Chantry case makes me very happy to have had no part of it. The friends I have who pastor ARBCA churches have left the association or are in the process of doing so. And from what I know of these matters, that sounds like the right decision.
> 
> But as always, you assume too much in these discussions, throw around a lot of baseless accusations and end up just sounding like an unhinged woke-scold.



I hope you are friendlier in real-life.


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

Connor Longaphie said:


> "Simply put, "*canoeing*" refers to one side of the *cigar* burning faster than the other side. Left unfixed, this will eventually split the *cigar* in half (making it resemble a *canoe*, hence the name)."



Sounds like a tragedy if those things are expensive.


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## User20004000 (Nov 29, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> ...I haven't noticed any evidence posted or cited with regard to things like harming the sheep (outside of issue people have with his doctrine)...



Hi Taylor,

Wouldn’t you agree that if people had _legitimate_ issues with Wilson’s doctrine, such would count toward his harming the sheep? In other words, isn’t a false gospel the primary way in which the sheep are harmed?

I think it’s a pretty settled matter that FV harmed the sheep in _innumerable_ ways. Accordingly, I would think that posting or citing evidence to that effect on this site should be about as necessary as quoting Trent to impugn Rome.

Reactions: Like 6


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I hope you are friendlier in real-life.


I'm very friendly here on the board; even to you. But being accused of "soft-pedaling child abuse by the clergy," tends to get my dander up and interrupt my naturally sunny disposition.


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> I'm very friendly here on the board; even to you. But being accused of "soft-pedaling child abuse by the clergy," tends to get my dander up and interrupt my naturally sunny disposition.



Ok, so how do we end this feud?

You clearly don't like me. I posted criticisms of ARBCA a few months back and you replied vigorously on that post. Maybe you disliked me before that point, but afterwards you really seemed to dislike me and often took the opportunity to reply aggressively to many of my posts. I posted on this thread and your first interaction with me was to send me a snarky picture of a guy grinding an ax. It took me awhile to get it, but then I remembered that you didn't like me, and then it clicked right away what you meant. I then say that ARBCA has soft-pedaled child abuse, and you take that to mean I have said you personally have soft-pedaled child-abuse (which I did not) and then call me an "unhinged woke-scold" -whatever that is.

So, let's squash the beef. We are on the same team and working for the same Master. How do we get a fresh start here and become friends? Can we shake hands and treat one another more amicably in the future?

God bless your work and your ministry, and God bless the relationship between you and I. I fully commit to a new start and I am glad for the ministry that you do.

Reactions: Like 3


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Ok, so how do we end this feud?
> 
> You clearly don't like me. I posted criticisms of ARBCA a few months back and you replied vigorously on that post. Maybe you disliked me before that point, but afterwards you really seemed to dislike me and often took the opportunity to reply aggressively to many of my posts. I posted on this thread and your first interaction with me was to send me a snarky picture of a guy grinding an ax. It took me awhile to get it, but then I remembered that you didn't like me, and then it clicked right away what you meant. I then say that ARBCA has soft-pedaled child abuse, and you take that to mean I have said you personally have soft-pedaled child-abuse (which I did not) and then call me an "unhinged woke-scold" -whatever that is.
> 
> ...



As I've stated before, the issue is how you interact with those who disagree with you. You read into what they are saying, assign motives, and make baseless accusations. Even here you have made assumptions that simply are not true. But I would be happy to deal with this in a forthright and charitable manner. If you are willing to do that, I think you should send me a PM or give me a call so we can talk over the phone (if that's a possibility).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> As I've stated many times before, the issue is how you interact with those who disagree with you. You read into what they are saying, assign motives, and make baseless accusations. Even here you have made assumptions that simply are not true. But I would be happy to deal with this in a forthright and charitable manner. If you are willing to do that, I think you should send me a PM or give me a call so we can talk over the phone (if that's a possibility).



I will consider what you have said. Your replies have similarly been pretty sharp as well at times and I feel you have sometimes not responded to me fairly. But the past is past. If you believe a phone call is necessary to reconcile, I am happy to do it. Though a simple written affirmation here is enough for me. From this point forward I promise to do my utmost to make sure I take your replies in the best possible manner and love you as a brother. Maybe tomorrow we can work out a phone call if needed (though in the past I have found folks who want such a phone call often try to prove they are right first before any reconciliation can occur, whereas I believe we can get along despite any remaining differences). Thank you for the opportunity to get to know you better. God bless.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

The reference to axe-grinding was meant to be somewhat humorous. You have a short list of favorite "whipping boys" you like to come back to again and again. The picture was meant to be a light-hearted dig.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

I did sincerely interpret what you said to mean that I was "soft-pedaling child abuse by the clergy." That is what prompted the sharp response. If that's isn't what you were saying, then I take your word for it. Thank you for the clarification.


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> The reference to axe-grinding was meant to be somewhat humorous. You have a short list of favorite "whipping boys" you like to come back to again and again. The picture was meant to be a light-hearted dig.



Ok. From now on I will take your attempts at humor as such rather than digs at me, and I will assume that you have posted them only in the best light. Humor is good. I like it. And I promise to take it better from you in the future. It was a pretty good picture, after all.

And yes, you are right, I do have a few whipping boys like Douglas Wilson and ARBCA. I am troubled by how they've treated several abuse cases. You are correct in that.

I don't believe I am "woke" - I would probably be labeled alt-right by some. I do have a few issues that I believe our reformed folks could handle better, and one has been the abuse, issue, even as I despise much of the "Me Too" movement.

I will try from now on to present my views more irenically on these topics. I am sorry if I have offended you in any way. This is not to mean I am sorry for any of my views. We need not (neither of us) renounce our views for us to be reconciled or to strive for better respect for one another. It is ok to have differing opinions and even to champion for those opinions. But I promise to remember that you are not an enemy but a dear brother and a Christian with the same Holy Spirit as me and I renew a commitment to a new gentleness. I am sure we probably believe in 98% of the same stuff but end up arguing over the 2% where we differ, so praise God for our like precious faith.

Again, God bless you and your ministry. And please be patient with me and let us renew this acquaintance and even make it into a friendship.

God bless, brother.


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> I did sincerely interpret what you said to mean that I was "soft-pedaling child abuse by the clergy." That is what prompted the sharp response. If that's isn't what you were saying, then I take your word for it. Thank you for the clarification.



No, by all means, I did not mean you were soft-pedaling child abuse. I don't think I did, but if I wrote this paragraph poorly enough to make you believe that you were the object of this sentence and not ARBCA, then I take full responsibility and profusely apologize. I meant ARBCA (or at least several leaders within ARBCA...many in ARBCA are just now coming to this news as well and are as shocked as I was, and so are also not to be blamed). I admit this is all a sensitive topic. Please take me word on it and also my apology for any unclear communication.

Reactions: Like 1


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I will try from now on to present my views more irenically on these topics. I am sorry if I have offended you in any way. This is not to mean I am sorry for any of my views. We need not (neither of us) renounce our views for us to be reconciled or to strive for better respect for one another. It is ok to have differing opinion and even to champion for those opinions. But I promise to remember that you are not an enemy but a dear brother and a Christian with the same Holy Spirit as me and I renew a commitment to a new gentleness. I am sure we probably believe in 98% of the same stuff but end up arguing over the 2% where we differ, so praise God for our like precious faith.
> 
> Again, God bless you and your ministry. And please be patient with me and let is renew with acquaintance and even make it into a friendship.



I wholeheartedly reciprocate your sentiment and the intention of moving forward in brotherly love. 

_P.S._ I did send you my number and would glad to talk over the phone if for nothing other than getting better acquainted.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> I wholeheartedly reciprocate your sentiment and the intention of moving forward in brotherly love.
> 
> _P.S._ I did send you my number and would glad to talk over the phone if for nothing other than getting better acquainted.


I tried to call on Skype. I heard your voice....but you could not hear me. Sorry.


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## Smeagol (Nov 29, 2019)



Reactions: Funny 2


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## ZackF (Nov 29, 2019)

G said:


> View attachment 6417


You beat me to it! Verklempt.

Reactions: Like 1


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

Grant, how many times are you going to change your username? I having a hard time keeping track.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## Smeagol (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Grant, how many times are you going to change your username? I having a hard time keeping track.


This is the last time (I think). Some of my friends call me “G”. Further I thought it might be wise for me to do personally.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 29, 2019)

G said:


> This is the last time (I think). Some of my friends call me “G”.


Makes sense. "Grant" is a mouthful.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Smeagol (Nov 29, 2019)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Makes sense. "Grant" is a mouthful.



Hmmmm.... I have only ever been called an earful. I’ll take that as a compliment

Reactions: Like 1


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## Pergamum (Nov 29, 2019)

G said:


> Hmmmm.... I have only ever been called an earful. I’ll take that as a compliment



OG would have been cooler. I think it means Original Gangsta.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Smeagol (Nov 29, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> OG would have been cooler. I think it means Original Gangsta.


Requesting now.


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## Taylor (Nov 29, 2019)

RWD said:


> Hi Taylor,
> 
> Wouldn’t you agree that if people had _legitimate_ issues with Wilson’s doctrine, such would count toward his harming the sheep? In other words, isn’t a false gospel the primary way in which the sheep are harmed?
> 
> I think it’s a pretty settled matter that FV harmed the sheep in _innumerable_ ways. Accordingly, I would think that posting or citing evidence to that effect on this site should be about as necessary as quoting Trent to impugn Rome.



I completely agree with all of this. That’s why I never requested evidence for "harming the sheep." I know that is a given.


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## User20004000 (Nov 29, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I completely agree with all of this. That’s why I never requested evidence for "harming the sheep." I know that is a given.



Taylor,

I’m sorry but I thought you were asking for evidence of him harming the sheep when you posted: “But I haven't noticed *any evidence posted or cited with regard to things like harming the sheep* (outside of issue people have with his doctrine).”

I understood you to be looking for concrete evidence that would either: (a) legitimize the concerns people have had with Wilson’s doctrine, or (b) point to additional (non doctrinal) ways in which Wilson harmed the sheep. 

If you’re satisfied with (a), that Wilson indeed _did_ harm the sheep with confusing and even damning doctrine, then I think (b), for all practical purposes, is moot. In other words, if Wilson did (a), then (b) pales insignificant. 

Yes, I agree we must be even hyper careful in light of the Ninth Commandment. However, I’m not quite sure how it’s even possible to harm the sheep by introducing damnable heresy without also harming the sheep in other divisive ways. Doug Wilson’s teaching and associations did just that. Not only did FV disturb the souls of the saints, FV destroyed churches and relationships. 

Wilson should have renounced his pulpit ministry and taken his seat in the pew years ago. Even his public apology was more of the same, utterly confusing. 

I appreciate your earnest desire to defend one’s good name. That is honorable.

Reactions: Like 9


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## arapahoepark (Nov 29, 2019)

RWD said:


> Taylor,
> 
> I’m sorry but I thought you were asking for evidence of him harming the sheep when you posted: “But I haven't noticed *any evidence posted or cited with regard to things like harming the sheep* (outside of issue people have with his doctrine).”
> 
> ...


He means heretical views as opposed to outright tyrannical abuse.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 30, 2019)

Just follow the links in the thread.
https://twitter.com/RScottClark/sta...VdDQ2bBHVgfQuJBG5pj-NzMZ2N_5ZXwpXYcxYAs36dcX0


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## User20004000 (Nov 30, 2019)

As David Gadbois remarked nearly three years ago: 

“What makes me sad about this whole business, stretching back 15 years now to the 2002 Auburn Avenue Conference, is the destructive divisiveness it has caused within the reformed churches, the churches that have been broken apart, churches leaving their denominations, massive failures of church discipline to correct/expel FV adherents, the apostates to Rome it created, the MASSIVE amount of time, energy, and resources of Christ’s church that were diverted to address these errors (time we could have been reaching the lost, evangelizing, church planting, etc.).”

First comment taken from here: https://greenbaggins.wordpress.com/2017/01/17/douglas-wilson-federal-vision-no-more/

Reactions: Like 3 | Sad 1


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## Taylor (Nov 30, 2019)

RWD said:


> Taylor,
> 
> I’m sorry but I thought you were asking for evidence of him harming the sheep when you posted: “But I haven't noticed *any evidence posted or cited with regard to things like harming the sheep* (outside of issue people have with his doctrine).”
> 
> ...



I see. Yes, when I requested evidence for “harming the sheep,” I added the deliberate qualifier “outside issues with false doctrine” because “harming the sheep,” at least in this case, was mixed in with this like accusations of sexual abuse, blackmailing, etc. I wasn’t sure if “harming the sheep” then had to do merely with false doctrine, or something more. That’s why I wanted examples, because I just didn’t know what that phrase meant.

And I want to re-emphasize, I have no particular interest in defending Wilson. I have never read anything he’s written, not even a blog post. I’ve never even heard him speak. It’s not like I am trying to defend him (frankly I don’t really particularly like him, outside of his social commentary), and I don’t want it to come off that way. I guess these days I am particularly sensitive to people on social media (which includes this forum) throwing labels out at people, without giving credible, concrete evidence in that context (i.e., not simply saying, “Go look it up”), and then suspecting everyone who doesn’t entirely want to believe them of being in sincere support of said person and their alleged sin. It happens all the time and everywhere.

But, as I said earlier, people here have provided evidence, for which I am thankful, and which I will look into.

Sorry for the confusion.

Reactions: Amen 1


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 30, 2019)

While I dislike dissention and seeing things torn apart there was a creeping in that is always at our doorstep. Auburn Avenue was only a place in time where things culminated into a merging of various things. Some people think it started with Norman Shepherd. Meredith Kline was a pendulum swing in the opposite direction in reaction to him. Both are fringes that produced problems that took a lot of time away and there are damages on both sides. The one thing that has arisen from the ashes to me is that the Standards have proven to be a place that has produced a reliable guide in truth. Both sides of the extreme pendulum swings proved to have problems that have been destructive to the souls they heavily influenced. But the strengthening of the Standard's position has been obvious to many. And I am not Machen's Warrior Child. I have grown to love the Standards because of this process though. I know many people who have. I actually believe there has been a strengthening that has happened since the disease that both sides have has been exposed. I also believe we are going to need that strengthening because I believe we are headed for harder times.

Reactions: Like 2


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## RamistThomist (Nov 30, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> That’s why I wanted examples, because I just didn’t know what that phrase meant.



Follow the links in the thread. WE had a big PB discussion on this in 2015 (titled "A QUestion for Doug Wilson Fans")
https://twitter.com/RScottClark/sta...VdDQ2bBHVgfQuJBG5pj-NzMZ2N_5ZXwpXYcxYAs36dcX0


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## RamistThomist (Nov 30, 2019)

https://natalierose-livewithpassion.blogspot.com/2016/02/my-email-exchange-with-pastor-who.html
https://sitler.moscowid.net/
http://www.moscowid.net/communion-o...port-on-the-sitler-and-wight-sex-abuse-cases/

This man should never be within 20 feet of a pulpit.

Reactions: Like 3


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## User20004000 (Nov 30, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I see. Yes, when I requested evidence for “harming the sheep,” I added the deliberate qualifier “outside issues with false doctrine” because “harming the sheep,” at least in this case, was mixed in with this like accusations of sexual abuse, blackmailing, etc. I wasn’t sure if “harming the sheep” then had to do merely with false doctrine, or something more. That’s why I wanted examples, because I just didn’t know what that phrase meant.
> 
> And I want to re-emphasize, I have no particular interest in defending Wilson. I have never read anything he’s written, not even a blog post. I’ve never even heard him speak. It’s not like I am trying to defend him (frankly I don’t really particularly like him, outside of his social commentary), and I don’t want it to come off that way. I guess these days I am particularly sensitive to people on social media (which includes this forum) throwing labels out at people, without giving credible, concrete evidence in that context (i.e., not simply saying, “Go look it up”), and then suspecting everyone who doesn’t entirely want to believe them of being in sincere support of said person and their alleged sin. It happens all the time and everywhere.
> 
> ...



My suspicion was you might have taken issue with whether one could substantiate the non doctrinal infractions. Frankly, some of those seem pretty out there to me. If they can be substantiated, I personally would not want to become acquainted with the evidence(s). Hopefully _if_ they’re legitimate, I hope they’ve already been addressed ecclesiastically and that suitable counseling is in place. I have no opinion on the allegations. 

Always appreciative of you, Taylor.

Reactions: Like 2


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## RamistThomist (Nov 30, 2019)

RWD said:


> Hopefully _if_ they’re legitimate, I hope they’ve already been addressed ecclesiastically and that suitable counseling is in place



Normally you would be correct. But this isn't a regular church setting. This is the CREC. Wilson is the pope. But even more, presbyteries in the CREC (at least then) can only recommend.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad 1


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## RamistThomist (Nov 30, 2019)

https://www.theamericanconservative.com/dreher/scandal-in-moscow/


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## Minh (Nov 30, 2019)

An off topic here but since I am a beginner to understanding FV theology, do you have any stuff concerning its destructive effect to the church of Christ?


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## RamistThomist (Dec 1, 2019)

Minh said:


> An off topic here but since I am a beginner to understanding FV theology, do you have any stuff concerning its destructive effect to the church of Christ?


https://puritanboard.com/threads/cr...r-november-trailer.100189/page-4#post-1223777


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## A.Joseph (Dec 1, 2019)

I’m wondering if Wilson has been morphing into a modern day (albeit much crustier version of)William Jennings Bryan with an emphasis on culture war and political clout. The Church will continue to be attacked from every side regardless, but Machen maintained the first things of Reformed faith, notably the doctrines of grace and sin. Our interest in public, temporal and worldly matters seem to fast-track the church down a wrong course which eventually backfires. It seems like history keeps repeating. https://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/holding-line/
“in several successive General Assemblies, the denomination showed no willingness to be divisive and chose instead administrative solutions that were designed to lessen the tensions. One of these measures involved a study committee whose report blamed conservatives for the contentiousness in the church,* and it called for all sides, especially conservatives, to stop their public criticisms of liberals. The drive for unity had supplanted a concern for correct doctrine.*”

“What stands out in the denominational part of the fundamentalist controversy is that the ecumenical drive that had dominated Protestant agencies since 1870 had cultivated an organizational ethos that made theological disagreement anathema. In effect, Protestants, as the Presbyterian example makes clear, never had a real chance to hear or debate the new ideas that were being taught or critiqued in the seminaries because of the need to avoid problems that might divide the churches organizationally. ...The slogan of the era fittingly was “doctrine divides, ministry unites.”

“Bryan and Machen, for instance, though opposed to liberalism, did so for different reasons. For Bryan, liberalism was threatening Christian civilization in the United States, hence the need to expurgate evolution from the public schools. But Bryan gave little support to the efforts that Machen initiated in the Presbyterian Church. As Machen explained in his most popular book, _Christianity and Liberalism_ (1923), the real cause for alarm in the church was not how God created or in what way Christ would return, as important as these teachings might be. Something far more basic was at stake, namely, the doctrines of sin and grace.”
“*What was at stake in the fundamentalist-modernist controversy was not the secularization of America but the secularization of the church*.”


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## bookslover (Dec 2, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> https://natalierose-livewithpassion.blogspot.com/2016/02/my-email-exchange-with-pastor-who.html
> https://sitler.moscowid.net/
> http://www.moscowid.net/communion-o...port-on-the-sitler-and-wight-sex-abuse-cases/
> 
> This man should never be within 20 feet of a pulpit.



Better make it 2,000,000 feet.

Reactions: Like 4


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## Pergamum (Dec 2, 2019)

Maybe a church plant in Moscow Idaho is a good idea. The church marqueee can say, "Flee to us from the Crazies."

Reactions: Like 3 | Funny 1


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## Jake (Dec 2, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Maybe a church plant in Moscow Idaho is a good idea. The church marqueee can say, "Flee to us from the Crazies."



@VictorBravo Are you on it?


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## VictorBravo (Dec 2, 2019)

Jake said:


> @VictorBravo Are you on it?



We are 30 miles south and probably too small to start a plant. But we do see refugees from time to time.


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