# Jehovah is German



## RobertPGH1981 (Jul 15, 2021)

This might not be news to some of you but its something I just learned today. I never understood why some people like to refer to God as Jehovah. Well its simply a transliteration from Hebrew into German. So if you say Jehovah you are speaking German. 

*Jehovah* (/dʒɪˈhoʊvə/) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה‎ Yəhōwā, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה‎ (YHWH), the proper *name* of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible and is considered one of the seven names of God in Judaism. ... The derived forms Iehouah and *Jehovah* first appeared in the 16th century.









Jehovah - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## Gwallard (Jul 15, 2021)

It's not that simple, although German definitely comes into the picture!

How the Tetragrammaton is said with the Hebrew (Masoretic) vowel pointings you provided does actually say "Ye-ho-vah" basically. However, the yod-heh-waw-heh combination didn't sound like this to Moses. In the text, Hebrew was only consonants for millennia. The vowel pointings were added by the Masoretic tradition thousands of years later, and actually - because they didn't want the divine name said in vain - the Masorites didn't put the correct vowels for those consonants (I.e YHWH in English). They put the vowels for "Adonai" (Lord) under YHWH instead. YHWH + Adonai vowels = Jehovah.

But the yod being said as "J" is certainly German, and so is waw (said "vav"). German is basically a required language for Biblical scholars. Now there are computers, first there were Germans.

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## iainduguid (Jul 15, 2021)

We could add that the same is true of Jesus, Joshua, and most other J names in the Bible.

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## Romans922 (Jul 15, 2021)

RobertPGH1981 said:


> This might not be news to some of you but its something I just learned today. I never understood why some people like to refer to God as Jehovah. Well its simply a transliteration from Hebrew into German. So if you say Jehovah you are speaking German.
> 
> *Jehovah* (/dʒɪˈhoʊvə/) is a Latinization of the Hebrew יְהֹוָה‎ Yəhōwā, one vocalization of the Tetragrammaton יהוה‎ (YHWH), the proper *name* of the God of Israel in the Hebrew Bible and is considered one of the seven names of God in Judaism. ... The derived forms Iehouah and *Jehovah* first appeared in the 16th century.
> 
> ...



Yehovah, Iehovah, Jehovah are all the same. J is older modern English which had a y sound (or soft j sound).

If though we go with your reasoning, you will have to stop saying "Jesus" if we get the "J" from German that is...

The pronunciation of the divine name as "Jehovah" can be found as far back as the 7th century at least with little effort in looking.

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## Tom Hart (Jul 15, 2021)

It is helpful to keep in mind that the letter J is not original to the Latin alphabet. What would often appear as I in classical Latin came to be represented afterwards by J, notably at the beginnings of words.

English has a peculiar habit of pronouncing that intitial I/J as _dʒ. _At a guess, this is imported from Norman French and subsequently modified. You see it all through English translations of the Bible, from Judah to Joshua to Jeremiah to Jesus. In German, meanwhile, the J is pronounced very like the Hebrew yod.

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## hLuke (Jul 15, 2021)

Using the same principle, then, the translation of the divine name, _Yahweh_, is more appropriately (in terms of modern English) rendered _Jahweh._
Is this a different variation?


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## jw (Jul 15, 2021)

Pfft. Jehovah ain’t German. He _created_ Germans.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 6


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## Tom Hart (Jul 15, 2021)

hLuke said:


> Using the same principle, then, the translation of the divine name, _Yahweh_, is more appropriately (in terms of modern English) rendered _Jahweh._
> Is this a different variation?


Properly speaking, both renderings, "Jehovah" and "Yahweh", are not _translations_, but _transliterations_. (The Divine Name is not translatable.) Basically, "Jehovah" is a more antiquated transliteration; most scholars today agree that "Yahweh" is closer to the actual Hebrew pronunciation.

If we are comparing the English to the Hebrew, it can be pointed out that there is no phonetic equivalent in Hebrew to the English J.

To suggest a transliteration like "Jahweh" would be unusual. It blends a 17th-century rendering with a more modern one. The same scholarship that replaced the J with a Y also put in W for V, as well as substituting the vowel pointing.

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## hLuke (Jul 16, 2021)

Tom Hart said:


> Properly speaking, both renderings, "Jehovah" and "Yahweh", are not _translations_, but _transliterations_. (The Divine Name is not translatable.) Basically, "Jehovah" is a more antiquated transliteration; most scholars today agree that "Yahweh" is closer to the actual Hebrew pronunciation.
> 
> If we are comparing the English to the Hebrew, it can be pointed out that there is no phonetic equivalent in Hebrew to the English J.
> 
> To suggest a transliteration like "Jahweh" would be unusual. It blends a 17th-century rendering with a more modern one. The same scholarship that replaced the J with a Y also put in W for V, as well as substituting the vowel pointing.


Thanks Tom, that's helpful.


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## Stephen L Smith (Jul 16, 2021)

Tom Hart said:


> Properly speaking, both renderings, "Jehovah" and "Yahweh", are not _translations_, but _transliterations_. (The Divine Name is not translatable.) Basically, "Jehovah" is a more antiquated transliteration; most scholars today agree that "Yahweh" is closer to the actual Hebrew pronunciation.


It is interesting that the Legacy Standard Bible, which I personally think will be an excellent translation, argues that Yahweh is the name that is properly ascribed to God. They seem quite dogmatic about this.

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## Stephen L Smith (Jul 16, 2021)

hLuke said:


> the translation of the divine name, _Yahweh_


I did wonder how they say Yahweh in the 'Stralian language

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## hLuke (Jul 16, 2021)

Stephen L Smith said:


> I did wonder how they say Yahweh in the 'Stralian language


 As for pronunciation, I have heard arguments that the name should actually be pronounced with the last bit silent. E.G. "Yah-www"...

But the heart is what matters.


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## dnlcnwy (Jul 16, 2021)

I was of the understanding that to event speak the name of God was considered so presumptuous by the Hebrews that to do it was forbidden. Or am I getting my history from the wrong sources?


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## hLuke (Jul 16, 2021)

dnlcnwy said:


> I was of the understanding that to event speak the name of God was considered so presumptuous by the Hebrews that to do it was forbidden. Or am I getting my history from the wrong sources?


I believe you're right. For Jews, God's name is considered too holy to utter, so they instead render it Adonai, which means Lord.


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## iainduguid (Jul 16, 2021)

For those who missed it, there was a lengthy thread on the subject last year, which I found illuminating.






Jehovah or Yehovah vs. Yahweh


Jehovah or Yehovah vs. Yahweh One of the wonderful things about our confessions is that we may take refuge in them in matters of controversy, and though we may be assailed for our views on certain topics – here I am referring to textual matters – if the confessions support us detractors will be...




www.puritanboard.com

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## Stephen L Smith (Jul 16, 2021)

hLuke said:


> As for pronunciation, I have heard arguments that the name should actually be pronounced with the last bit silent. E.G. "Yah-www"...
> 
> But the heart is what matters.


It;s ok Hayden. I was teasing about the 'Stralian language. As for me I come from one of the remote parts of New Zealand (the South Island's West Coast). I do not have a sophisticated accent

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## hLuke (Jul 16, 2021)

iainduguid said:


> which I found illuminating.


Thanks Dr Duguid. Your insights on that forum were very helpful.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 16, 2021)

I am English. I speak English. My English Bible has every Hebrew and Greek name in its anglicized form. The anglicized form of the Divine Name is "Jehovah". Any questions?


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## iainduguid (Jul 17, 2021)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> I am English. I speak English. My English Bible has every Hebrew and Greek name in its anglicized form. The anglicized form of the Divine Name is "Jehovah". Any questions?


This is a valid point (though it would be fair to add that there is more than one recognized English form of the name). It's hard to object to Jehovah, and still happily accept the names Jesus (Yeshua), Jerusalem (Yerushalayim) and James (ya'aqov). I'm comfortable with both versions as anglicizations. It only becomes problematic if people argue that Jehovah is the only proper name of God, or that using Jehovah is intrinsically better than "the Lord". The question of the original Hebrew pronunciation is really a separate (and quite complex) issue, which the thread I referenced explored in some detail, profitably in my view (I learned a lot from the interaction).

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## retroGRAD3 (Jul 17, 2021)

hLuke said:


> I believe you're right. For Jews, God's name is considered too holy to utter, so they instead render it Adonai, which means Lord.


I believe this is a much later tradition of the apostate Jews though. The authors of the bible and the holy spirit clearly did not have a problem with pronouncing the divine name.


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## iainduguid (Jul 17, 2021)

retroGRAD3 said:


> I believe this is a much later tradition of the apostate Jews though. The authors of the bible and the holy spirit clearly did not have a problem with pronouncing the divine name.


One of the most obvious features of this discussion is the NT authors exclusive use of _kurios_ (Lord) to translate the divine name when quoting the OT. In the Legacy Bible clip above, the contributors jokingly describe people saying "If it is good enough for the apostle Paul, it's good enough for me" and then move on as if that were a laughable proposition- but I think argument that should be seriously considered. If the inspired NT writers translate the divine name invariably as "the Lord", why would we adopt any other pattern in our own usage?


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jul 17, 2021)

I for one prefer Yahweh but have no qualms with Jehovah. I used to skip over it on hymns due to scholarly pickiness and some Sacred Name influence. I think Jehovah is well enough established in English to keep the hymns and references. If teaching i might say Yahweh, but I’m probably singing Jehovah due to the hymns.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jul 17, 2021)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> I am English.



Fact check: You're 'Murican.


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## retroGRAD3 (Jul 17, 2021)

iainduguid said:


> One of the most obvious features of this discussion is the NT authors exclusive use of _kurios_ (Lord) to translate the divine name when quoting the OT. In the Legacy Bible clip above, the contributors jokingly describe people saying "If it is good enough for the apostle Paul, it's good enough for me" and then move on as if that were a laughable proposition- but I think argument that should be seriously considered. If the inspired NT writers translate the divine name invariably as "the Lord", why would we adopt any other pattern in our own usage?


This is an argument to consider, but then that discounts the entire old testament's extensive use of the divine name, does it not?


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 19, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Fact check: You're 'Murican.


I was speaking of my English ethnicity, not my nationality. I am proud to be an Englishman, an American, and a Southerner. Let the reader understand.

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