# Application of RPW in Non-Corporate Contexts



## Justified (Oct 3, 2016)

I feel this is an important topic. One I have been rather confused about for sometime now. Upon further reflection I've realized that it is obvious that the RPW must apply to all worship. However, it also seems obvious that the application of it is different in non-corporate contexts. For example, in your own private devotions or family setting, an ordained minister is not usually giving an exposition of the text.

How ought we to apply the RPW to private worship? Can we sing non-inspired compositions (as one who believes in singing exclusively the scriptural canticles in public worship, it seems weird to me that you wouldn't be able to; but perhaps I err). Can you use instruments in private worship?

The floor is open to discuss all applications of the RPW to private worship. I just asked some of those questions because they are questions that I had.


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## SeanPatrickCornell (Oct 3, 2016)

I am not convinced by your assertion that RPW applies to private worship.

How do you come to this conclusion?

The very definition of the RPW itself seems to exclude this.

I have only included two links below, but I could have supplied several more.

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/articles/regulative-principle-worship/



> Put simply, the regulative principle of worship states that the *corporate worship* of God is to be founded upon specific directions of Scripture.



http://www.theopedia.com/regulative-principle



> The Regulative principle of worship in Christian theology teaches that the *public worship of God* should include those and only those elements that are instituted, commanded, or appointed by command or example in the Bible. In other words, it is the belief that God institutes in Scripture whatever he requires *for worship in the Church*, and everything else should be avoided.


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## Miss Marple (Oct 3, 2016)

I eagerly await responses to this. I have been told for example that it is a sin for me as a female to read the Bible out loud in family devotions. Also that catechism is not to be done in family devotions. Presumable I should not pray out loud. I have come to the opinion that the RPW applies ONLY to the duly constituted corporate worship of God, formally called. But I am very interested to see how others might apply it.


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## Justified (Oct 3, 2016)

I think that it perhaps applies to all contexts because it seems to me that we are at no time able to offer up, as it were, strange fire before the Lord. It seems that God alone is able to regulate how he is to be worshiped in all contexts. Again, if this is true, there definitely needs to be a difference in application. Otherwise, I agree that it might be absurd and I am in error.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Oct 3, 2016)

Where does the Bible make it clear that corporate worship must be according to Scripture but all other worship can be according to man's invention? May Psalms like Psalm 150? I am very interested to find answers as well, as I am hung up on this right now. I really need people to point me to the Bible and not theologians on this issue. Thanks!


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## Afterthought (Oct 3, 2016)

My understanding is that firstly, the RPW technically only applies to public worship because worship technically only occurs in the public assembly (and we denote other settings, in which acts of devotion are performed, "worship" by analogy). However, secondly, the Second Commandment applies to all of life. How would one analyze "private worship"? It needs to be defined. If it is a time when we are "drawing nigh unto God to worship him" (specific worship), then only specific acts of worship ought to be performed, and those specific acts of worship must be only what has been commanded. If "private worship" simply means a time of religious exercise and devotion, then it obviously includes specific acts of worship but is not limited to them. Those specific acts of worship must be limited to God's will, but any other actions are not limited (e.g., catechism). One should also consider "meditation" as an attendant to worship and another category in which to place actions.

Note this difference between private and public worship: in public worship, we are gathered together to perform specific acts of devotion during a given period of time, whereas there is liberty as to the time one sets apart to worship God in private.

Such is my understanding of the matter.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Justified (Oct 3, 2016)

Afterthought said:


> My understanding is that firstly, the RPW technically only applies to public worship because worship technically only occurs in the public assembly (and we denote other settings, in which acts of devotion are performed, "worship" by analogy). However, secondly, the Second Commandment applies to all of life. How would one analyze "private worship"? It needs to be defined. If it is a time when we are "drawing nigh unto God to worship him" (specific worship), then only specific acts of worship ought to be performed, and those specific acts of worship must be only what has been commanded. If "private worship" simply means a time of religious exercise and devotion, then it obviously includes specific acts of worship but is not limited to them. Those specific acts of worship must be limited to God's will, but any other actions are not limited (e.g., catechism). One should also consider "meditation" as an attendant to worship and another category in which to place actions.
> 
> Note this difference between private and public worship: in public worship, we are gathered together to perform specific acts of devotion during a given period of time, whereas there is liberty as to the time one sets apart to worship God in private.
> 
> Such is my understanding of the matter.



Thanks, Raymond. I think that is helpful.


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## Toasty (Oct 3, 2016)

How does one define worship? A person can read a book about a biblical topic written by a Christian author, but that would not be worship.

Would the singing of any song that praises God be an act of worship whether one is singing by himself or with other people?


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 3, 2016)

Justified said:


> I feel this is an important topic. One I have been rather confused about for sometime now. Upon further reflection I've realized that it is obvious that the RPW must apply to all worship. However, it also seems obvious that the application of it is different in non-corporate contexts. For example, in your own private devotions or family setting, an ordained minister is not usually giving an exposition of the text.
> 
> How ought we to apply the RPW to private worship? Can we sing non-inspired compositions (as one who believes in singing exclusively the scriptural canticles in public worship, it seems weird to me that you wouldn't be able to; but perhaps I err). Can you use instruments in private worship?
> 
> The floor is open to discuss all applications of the RPW to private worship. I just asked some of those questions because they are questions that I had.



Ir would seem that the WCF ch 21:6 shows that worship and it being regulated of God is not limited to the corporate setting:



> VI. Neither prayer, nor any other part of religious worship, is now, under the gospel, either tied unto, or made more acceptable to, any place in which it is performed, or towards which it is directed: but God is to be worshipped everywhere in spirit and in truth; as in private families daily, and in secret each one by himself, so more solemnly in the public assemblies, which are not carelessly or willfully to be neglected or forsaken, when God, by his Word or providence, calleth thereunto.



The Directory for private/family worship helps:

http://www.semperreformanda.com/creeds/the-directory-for-family-worship/


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 3, 2016)

Toasty said:


> How does one define worship? A person can read a book about a biblical topic written by a Christian author, but that would not be worship.
> 
> Would the singing of any song that praises God be an act of worship whether one is singing by himself or with other people?



in my opinion, whenever we speak of 'worship' it has a particular treatment that must be applied. Worship is worship. There are not two types. Having said that, all worship is regulated.

WCF ch 21 clearly defines all worship:



> I. The light of nature showeth that there is a God, who hath lordship and sovereignty over all; is good, and doeth good unto all; and is therefore to be feared, loved, praised, called upon, trusted in, and served with all the hearth, and with all the soul, and with all the might. But the acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by himself, and so limited by his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation or any other way not prescribed in the holy Scripture.
> 
> II. Religious worship is to be given to God, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; and to him alone: not to angels, saints, or any other creature: and since the Fall, not without a Mediator; nor in the mediation of any other but of Christ alone.
> 
> III. Prayer with thanksgiving, being one special part of religious worship, is by God required of all men; and that it may be accepted, it is to be made in the name of the Son, by the help of his Holy Spirit, according to his will, with understanding, reverence, humility, fervency, faith, love, and perseverance; and, if vocal, in a known tongue.


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## Kevin (Oct 3, 2016)

The RPW applies to corporate worship only. Yes family prayers are worship. Yes personal devotional practices are worship. And yes all of life is worship. But the principle behind the RPW is "how is God to be worshiped by his people assembled?"

There is much to be said about false, or impious practices in family, or personal worship, but that does not mean that we should import the RPW into these spheres.


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 4, 2016)

Kevin said:


> The RPW applies to corporate worship only. Yes family prayers are worship. Yes personal devotional practices are worship. And yes all of life is worship.



http://www.semperreformanda.com/2016/03/is-all-of-life-worship-by-r-andrew-myers/

If 'family prayers are worship' & 'personal devotional practices' are worship, how is it regulated? Does God allow for strange fire in these sectors?


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 4, 2016)

'On the basis of the WCF subordinate standards chapter 21, the following is clear enough to me that they saw the RPW applying to even private worship: 

(a) 21:1 God "may not be worshiped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scripture", 

(b) 21:6 God "is to be worshiped everywhere, in spirit and truth; as, in private families daily, and in secret, each one by himself; so, more solemnly in the public assemblies", 

therefore

(c) worshipping God in private families and in secret must not be done according to the imaginations and devices of men or in any other way not prescribed in Holy Scripture.'


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 4, 2016)

Worship in the Presence of God, edited by David Lachman and Frank J. Smith, p. 75:




> The principle in question may then be stated simply by the latter proposition, i.e., "The Holy Scripture prescribes the whole content of worship." By this is meant that all elements or parts of worship are prescribed by God Himself in His Word. This principle has universal reference to worship performed by men since the fall. In other words it has equal application to the Old and New Testament. It is also universal in that it is regulative of all types of worship, whether public, family or private. It is in order to observe the universality of this principle, although our special concern is with public worship under the New Testament.


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## Andrew P.C. (Oct 4, 2016)

Kevin said:


> And yes all of life is worship.



I have a great distaste for this phrase. All of life is not worship. This makes worship meaningless. If all of life is worship then nothing is worship. 



Kevin said:


> But the principle behind the RPW is "how is God to be worshiped by his people assembled?"


So, a covenant family is not "His people assembled"?


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## zsmcd (Oct 4, 2016)

Andrew P.C. said:


> All of life is not worship. This makes worship meaningless. If all of life is worship then nothing is worship.



Can you substantiate those claims?


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 4, 2016)

This is from Dr. Young's article in that work, which first appeared as William Young, “The Second Commandment: The Principle that God is To Be Worshipped Only in Ways Prescribed in Holy Scripture and That The Holy Scripture Prescribes The Whole Content of Worship—Taught by Scripture Itself,” Christian Opinion 5.2 (1947). That early, it dates to within a few years of John Murray's seminal definition and defense in the OPC reports on worship song. William Young was cosigner with Murray of the minority report on worship song (taking the EP position). Murray penned the definition and defense of the RPW which all the committee supported; it nowhere restrains the definition to public worship. Indeed, Murray cites the catechisms showing their expansive definition of all religious worship; not just all public worship.“The duties required in the second commandment are, the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath instituted in his word” and the Shorter Catechism, Question 50, says: “The second commandment requireth the receiving, observing, and keeping pure and entire, all such religious worship and ordinances as God hath appointed in his word”.38 It might be argued that this positive statement,39 though it makes mandatory the worship of God instituted in His Word, yet does not rigidly exclude the propriety of worshipping God 40in ways not instituted in the Word. It is here that the effect of the principle of exclusion, formulated in Questions 109 and 51 of the respective Catechisms, becomes apparent. The Larger Catechism, Question 109, reads: “The sins forbidden in the second commandment are, all devising, counseling, commanding, using, or any wise approving, any religious worship not instituted by God himself”,41 and the Shorter Catechism,42 Question 51: “The second commandment forbiddeth the worshipping of God by images, or any other way not appointed in his word”.43
38. [RPWMS p. 15 begins at “IV.” ]
39. [RPWMS: “statement, does not though….”]
40. [Page 16 of RPWMS begins here.]
41. [Comma placement is unclear here but British usage has been followed.]
42. [“It is here that the <effect of the> principle … becomes apparent. <The Larger Catechism,> Question 109, reads …. and <the Shorter Catechism,> Question ….”]
43. [Murray has drawn a line to ensure the period is placed right of the closing quotation mark at the end of this sentence/paragraph.]
​ 
See _The Confessional Presbyterian_ 11 (2015), 11; this is a presentation of the report (online at opc.org) but with footnotes comparing to the first hand written draft Murray sent to the committee.


Scott Bushey said:


> Worship in the Presence of God, edited by David Lachman and Frank J. Smith, p. 75:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Miss Marple (Oct 4, 2016)

It seems then that many in this forum would say, then, that I should not read the Bible aloud to my children, lead them in prayer, or illuminate Scripture to them, as this is worship, and such things should not be done according to the RPW. I should not lead family devotions with my children.


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 4, 2016)

I'm not sure why it must seem that way. While it is normally envisioned that the head of household to lead family worship would be the father, I'm unaware of any Presbyterian church having ruled that providentially if that is not possible, or if the father will not, that in leu of the mother taking charge of it, there should be no family worship at all. See for instance the practice of Irish Presbyterians. 


Miss Marple said:


> It seems then that many in this forum would say, then, that I should not read the Bible aloud to my children, lead them in prayer, or illuminate Scripture to them, as this is worship, and such things should not be done according to the RPW. I should not lead family devotions with my children.


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## Miss Marple (Oct 4, 2016)

I don't see why either except that some here seem to be saying that family devotions, singing psalms, etc. is worship and governed by the RPW. the RPW does not allow me to lead these things.


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 4, 2016)

If you believe that I can't help you since it is not disputable that private and family devotions are regulated by scripture, and that is all the rpw says. 


Miss Marple said:


> I don't see why either except that some here seem to be saying that family devotions, singing psalms, etc. is worship and governed by the RPW. the RPW does not allow me to lead these things.


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## Miss Marple (Oct 4, 2016)

Are you saying the regulations are different between family worship and corporate worship? That is what I think.


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## Afterthought (Oct 4, 2016)

Miss Marple said:


> It seems then that many in this forum would say, then, that I should not read the Bible aloud to my children, lead them in prayer, or illuminate Scripture to them, as this is worship, and such things should not be done according to the RPW. I should not lead family devotions with my children.


It seems that depends on whether the RPW is being thought of as a limitation of church authority. If it is, then it is difficult to see how the RPW is being applied outside the public worship context, and it is easy to see how one might view "who leads worship" to be governed by the principle. However, if the RPW is being viewed as limiting the ways in which we approach God to worship him, then it would seem that the duty of family worship would necessitate that someone lead it, and it seems odd to apply the RPW to "who leads worship"? And without specific instruction in the Scriptures, it would make sense that the man generally leads it, but that leaves room for other cases. Or perhaps another way to view it, the one who leads worship may be a "regulated circumstance;" hence, one can view it as a change in "regulations" between family and corporate worship.

I'm just throwing that out there. I haven't thought much about whether "who leads worship" is governed by the limiting principle of worship. I had thought of "who leads worship" more in terms of church government (when it comes to the public assembly): a regulative principle of church government, rather than one of worship. Hence, just as one lacks a church government for private worship in other areas (like lack of administration of the Sacraments), the duty then naturally devolves on some private person to lead the private worship.


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 4, 2016)

Miss Marple said:


> Are you saying the regulations are different between family worship and corporate worship? That is what I think.



I don't know if I would call them regulations but that there are different treatments based on precedence.


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## earl40 (Oct 4, 2016)

Miss Marple said:


> I don't see why either except that some here seem to be saying that family devotions, singing psalms, etc. is worship and governed by the RPW. the RPW does not allow me to lead these things.



Maybe if you read what Chris said again?....."I'm unaware of any Presbyterian church having ruled that providentially if that is not possible, or if the father will not, that in leu of the mother taking charge of it, there should be no family worship at all."


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