# Constructive criticism wanted - my church website



## Andres (Mar 22, 2010)

Friends, I have taken on the responsibility of updating my church's website. Our current site as it is now can be viewed here - Covenant Presbyterian Church. 
Could you please offer up to me some constructive criticism on how to improve the website to make it more user friendly and hopefully be a tool to bring people to our church. The site is currently hosted on homestead, so I don't know how fancy I will be able to make it; for example I doubt we can do anything with adobe flash, etc. I am thinking more along the lines of what content needs to be removed/added and better fonts, layouts, etc. Finally, if you know of a church website that you feel is exceptional, please link to it so I can steal, err.... borrow their ideas. Thanks in advance!


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## N. Eshelman (Mar 22, 2010)

To me it looks too busy and not user friendly. The tabs should be clearly marked or separated from the rest of the stuff on the homepage- but basically the homepage should be simple, attractive, and have any relevant information that you want your visitors to see. Your homepage is filled with quotes and images and bible verses and all sorts of stuff. That is where I would begin. 

Now, I do not think that my congregation's website is the best- but I think that it is functional. It is also wordpress driven, so it is very easy to change and to navigate if you want to change it. 

Reformed Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles


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## Montanablue (Mar 22, 2010)

Its so busy!

I would remove all of the image on the front page - the coat of arms thing, the OPC logo etc.

I would also remove the long pieces of text from the front page - those articles and excerpts could go under "Resources". 

The menu that you have on the left is good. I would perhaps make that the focus? I have seen church website that have a short "Introduction" section on the front page with a menu of links for more information on side. I think that's a nice way to do it. Otherwise it just feels overwhelming. Simpler is better, in my opinion.


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## Andres (Mar 22, 2010)

nleshelman said:


> To me it looks too busy and not user friendly. The tabs should be clearly marked or separated from the rest of the stuff on the homepage- but basically the homepage should be simple, attractive, and have any relevant information that you want your visitors to see. Your homepage is filled with quotes and images and bible verses and all sorts of stuff. That is where I would begin.
> 
> Now, I do not think that my congregation's website is the best- but I think that it is functional. It is also wordpress driven, so it is very easy to change and to navigate if you want to change it.
> 
> Reformed Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles



Thanks pastor. I agree that our present site is too busy. This is partly the reason I wanted to revamp it. Everything on there currently was done by another member who is no longer keeping up the site. I am not trying to throw her under the bus, I am just saying that I don't prefer all the quotes, etc. at least not on the home page.


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## Webservant (Mar 22, 2010)

Andres said:


> nleshelman said:
> 
> 
> > To me it looks too busy and not user friendly. The tabs should be clearly marked or separated from the rest of the stuff on the homepage- but basically the homepage should be simple, attractive, and have any relevant information that you want your visitors to see. Your homepage is filled with quotes and images and bible verses and all sorts of stuff. That is where I would begin.
> ...


I agree with the other posters - the info on the site is good, it just doesn't all belong on the front page. Use a menu bar or tabs, organize the info, and move 80% of it off the front page. A great resource that I have used for about 6 years is http://www.healyourchurchwebsite.com .


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## Curt (Mar 22, 2010)

nleshelman said:


> To me it looks too busy and not user friendly. The tabs should be clearly marked or separated from the rest of the stuff on the homepage- but basically the homepage should be simple, attractive, and have any relevant information that you want your visitors to see. Your homepage is filled with quotes and images and bible verses and all sorts of stuff. That is where I would begin.
> 
> Now, I do not think that my congregation's website is the best- but I think that it is functional. It is also wordpress driven, so it is very easy to change and to navigate if you want to change it.
> 
> Reformed Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles


 
I like the RP one. Another option is the free sites with templates from the American Bible Society. They are very easy to create and maintain. They are also free. Here's our website from them: home - Covenant Baptist Church.


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## Scott1 (Mar 22, 2010)

As far as structure, you may want to have the general public web site and then portals that can be used by member sign in.

I would focus on ministry to people, and good practical information on the general web site. Simplicity beats clutter.

There are so many particulars, but I would have information for people who are looking for a reformed church as well as those who have no idea...

e.g. link to explanation of practice concerning the Lord's Supper, the Westminster Standards, a brief history of the OPC, etc.


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## CharlieJ (Mar 22, 2010)

Blog driven websites can be very good for churches: here's my church - DOWNTOWN PRESBYTERIAN :: THANKS FOR VISITING

Here are some other church websites I like:

Capitol Hill Baptist Church
Hampton Park Baptist Church


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## TaylorOtwell (Mar 22, 2010)

You could setup a blog on WordPress and customize that, and then just point that domain name you're using to the blog.


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## Edward (Mar 22, 2010)

I would agree with most of the posts here. 

First priority should be to clean up the first page. The interior pages are not bad, and have useful info. (Perhaps add a page of 'what to expect' telling about the worship style. )

I'd make the 'How to have eternal life' either a link off a secondary page main page, or re-write it on onto a page on your site that matches your visual theme. It's jarring to click on a link, and without warning end up on a completely different site, with no ready link back except the back button. 

For the map, if possible, embed on your site on a page in your theme, instead of a non matching page. 

Again, clean up the first page - move almost everything there to an interior page. From the text, at most, leave only the question and answer, move the explanation to a linked page. 

For your first page - If you have your own facility, a picture of it, the links to the key info pages, the address, and the "Where we strive together for sincere and pure devotion to Christ (2 Cor. 11:3)", the Pastor's name with a link to a welcoming letter from him, and, at the bottom, "A congregation of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church".

As for the link to the presbytery - perhaps somewhere inside on a resources page, but not on the front page.


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## Romans922 (Mar 22, 2010)

nleshelman said:


> To me it looks too busy and not user friendly. The tabs should be clearly marked or separated from the rest of the stuff on the homepage- but basically the homepage should be simple, attractive, and have any relevant information that you want your visitors to see. Your homepage is filled with quotes and images and bible verses and all sorts of stuff. That is where I would begin.
> 
> Now, I do not think that my congregation's website is the best- but I think that it is functional. It is also wordpress driven, so it is very easy to change and to navigate if you want to change it.
> 
> Reformed Presbyterian Church of Los Angeles



Nathan, I even think yours is too busy. Too many links on the left side. But we are talking about Andrew's church. 


Andrew, you have all the CS Lewis, Warfield, etc. pages. I'd clean up this front page just like others have said. Put all those on a separate page and put a link on the front page like: RESOURCES. This page would have any links you wanted to share, articles, papers.

You have a school, I might put on the front page a link somewhere that says: SCHOOL And then link to the School

You have some information about your Church/denomination/membership/etc. I might put a link on the front page: ABOUT US or just ABOUT (with links on the page it links to with links such as: MEMBERSHIP, DENOMINATION, CONSTITUTION, BELIEFS, PASTOR/OFFICERS, MISSION STATEMENT, SERVICE TIMES, LOCATION, CONTACT etc.

You have sermons, I'd put a link on the front page: SERMONS or if you have other audio there then: MEDIA (and you could put sermons and photos there or something).

On every page, you could have the same look basically, very much like what Nathan has (perhaps I just don't like all the links on his sidebar, some of them I think can go on an individual page. Also, I should critique myself because I had a wordpress church website and it had all those links too). The Picture header is the same on Nathan's (actually they change, but you can keep yours the same). The picture header for you could be as simple as the OPC icon with the Church name at the top. And for the links on the front page, possibly below the Picture header put your links: ABOUT MEDIA RESOURCES SCHOOL

All those links would be on every page, with the same picture header and background. Then on each individual page (about page or Media), you'd obviously have the information you want there on each individual page. 


*
For your final test, get an older lady, who has been using the computer for a little time, knows how to get on the web and such. Ask her if SHE thinks it is user friendly. That is the final test. If she says yes, then you are in! * Most people that will help on the PB are over qualified and think that your site is easy. Which it is, just busy. But an older lady will get lost completely on your webpage. So she is the final test. 


Also, as to the attractiveness of the webpage, I look at it and see old. You have an old church because you have what looks like a 1990's (within that decade) webpage. If you look at Andrew's his looks a lot newer. That will make the site have a fresher feel. But whatever you do, don't go too far in making it look new like this: Grace Stillwater 

If you do that you will just look emergent.

Actually, now that I think of it, that website is really simple, you should aim (not in content/looks, but in simplicity) at being similar to that website (the one I just linked to).


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## Andres (Mar 22, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> *
> For your final test, get an older lady, who has been using the computer for a little time, knows how to get on the web and such. Ask her if SHE thinks it is user friendly. That is the final test. If she says yes, then you are in! * Most people that will help on the PB are over qualified and think that your site is easy. Which it is, just busy. But an older lady will get lost completely on your webpage. So she is the final test.
> 
> 
> ...



Thanks Andrew. I especially appreciated your advice to have an older lady look at the site. I was also thinking of getting some non-Christians to give me input so I could learn from how they see/understand things. Also I agree the page looks old. Thanks again!


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## Tim (Mar 23, 2010)

What is your worship like? Hymns? Psalms & hymns? Psalms? The conscientious reformed Christian would want to know. I also appreciate a sample bulletin to give me an idea of what to expect.


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## Romans922 (Mar 23, 2010)

Good thought Tim. I always want to know that, especially in a day and age where FV Covenant Renewal worship is going on.


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## Andres (Mar 23, 2010)

Tim said:


> What is your worship like? Hymns? Psalms & hymns? Psalms? The conscientious reformed Christian would want to know. I also appreciate a sample bulletin to give me an idea of what to expect.


 
Interesting...I can honestly say I never considered putting something like this on the site, but now that you mention it, it makes sense. So I guess this can vary from church to church, but what exactly should the purpose of a church website be? I mean there is the obvious - give information about the church, but who is the intended audience? Should I try to cater to non-Christians, or Christians looking for a church or Reformed people who are in the area looking for a specific type of church? A lot of people have said that most of the info on the front page needs to be moved to another page, but now I am wondering if the site really needs it all?


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## Montanablue (Mar 23, 2010)

Andres said:


> Tim said:
> 
> 
> > What is your worship like? Hymns? Psalms & hymns? Psalms? The conscientious reformed Christian would want to know. I also appreciate a sample bulletin to give me an idea of what to expect.
> ...


 
Andrew, I would try to cater to both, but especially to non-Christians. Avoid using "reformed" language that they're not going to understand. I think church websites should be intelligible to those not familiar with "Christian" or "reformed" language. I think it is possible to give a description of your church's worship style in simple language - and if someone is extremely interested, surely they can email a pastor or elder, right?


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## Covenant Joel (Mar 23, 2010)

I would definitely use get WordPress. It's not hard to install. I host my site through KnappTech.com, which has it available to install automatically. But whatever host you use, you can install WP through the FTP. After that, you can just get a nice theme (I know several places to get some really nice ones for cheap) and then port your content over. Maintaining your content will be a thousand times easier once you have WP (or at least some Content Management System) in place.


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## Idelette (Mar 23, 2010)

Montanablue said:


> Andrew, I would try to cater to both, but especially to non-Christians. Avoid using "reformed" language that they're not going to understand. I think church websites should be intelligible to those not familiar with "Christian" or "reformed" language. I think it is possible to give a description of your church's worship style in simple language - and if someone is extremely interested, surely they can email a pastor or elder, right?


 
To be honest, when I was looking for a church and checking out websites.....if the website was very ambiguous and the language was not very reformed, I didn't even bother clicking on the interior links or visiting that church. To me it showed a catering to the world and trying to be culturally relevant....which I disagree with. If you are a reformed church, then you should be up front about that, and state exactly what the beliefs of the church are. One of the most frustrating things is clicking on a church website and not knowing what they hold to. It is an inconvenience to have to contact a Pastor just to know where the church stands, when the website should clearly lay that out. And by not even stating a doctrinal position it immediately shows me that they are probably not very solid. So, I think you should definitely use reformed language, but I would also include informative details for those that may be new to the reformed faith or for those that live in the area. Just my two cents!


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## Montanablue (Mar 23, 2010)

Oh, you misunderstand. I don't think a church should disguise that it's reformed! I think churches need to use clear and intelligible language to explain their reformed beliefs instead of slipping into reformed jargon that only other reformed people can understand. Like, don't say "we're a confessional church." No one knows what that means. Instead say, "We follow the Westminster Confession of Faith" and provide a link to it.


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## Romans922 (Mar 23, 2010)

Perhaps the language should be both. Simple, yet saying We are part of the OPC, we strongly hold to the Westminster Standards, means of grace (but you might just say Word, Sacraments, and Prayer!). 

Actually, the mission statement of your church would be good to serve this purpose. When I read your mission statement, I would not avoid your church like what Yvonne said. From it I gather that your church is Reformed and not emergent or liberal or crazy.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 23, 2010)

Everyone already beat me to it - install Wordpress.  

Wordpress has a nice 'church' theme that both myself ( Think! – Wrestlin’ With Wordz-N-Ideaz ), Jessica (she's on here - I forget her name - http://pilgrimsprogress.net/ ) and a few other sites use. As you can see from Jessica's site, it's customizable for exactly what a church would need.

I use Wordpress on multiple sites (including my job, since I'm the webmaster here too).


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## Andres (Mar 23, 2010)

sorry but i'm not a fan of Wordpress for a church website. the sites look to much like blogs to me, which is great if your site is a blog or blog format, but don't want that for our site. I don't like that format of having to scroll down so much to read the middle section and then having the links on both sides of the main article. in my opinion that is too busy.


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## Idelette (Mar 23, 2010)

Montanablue said:


> Oh, you misunderstand. I don't think a church should disguise that it's reformed! I think churches need to use clear and intelligible language to explain their reformed beliefs instead of slipping into reformed jargon that only other reformed people can understand. Like, don't say "we're a confessional church." No one knows what that means. Instead say, "We follow the Westminster Confession of Faith" and provide a link to it.


 
Thanks for elaborating, I understand now what you meant. When I first read your comment it sounded like avoiding any kind of reformed language at all...and I was just concerned that it would have the opposite effect on those that would be looking for a reformed and solid church. Thanks for clarifying that!


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 23, 2010)

Andres said:


> sorry but i'm not a fan of Wordpress for a church website. the sites look to much like blogs to me, which is great if your site is a blog or blog format, but don't want that for our site. I don't like that format of having to scroll down so much to read the middle section and then having the links on both sides of the main article. in my opinion that is too busy.



There are themes that put all the information right in the center and allow you to make one post 'static' so that it doesn't look like a blog. 

WordPress › Free WordPress Themes


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## Webservant (Mar 23, 2010)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > sorry but i'm not a fan of Wordpress for a church website. the sites look to much like blogs to me, which is great if your site is a blog or blog format, but don't want that for our site. I don't like that format of having to scroll down so much to read the middle section and then having the links on both sides of the main article. in my opinion that is too busy.
> ...


Our site (see my sig) is WordPress, and that link is where I got our theme. They don't all look "Bloggy" - you can mod the themes to your heart's content. Just make sure you get your free themes from the link provided - I have heard that theme and even a few plugins from unreputable sources can, at best, not work, and at worst, contain some kind of malware.


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