# What role does physical attraction play in courtship/dating?



## Unworthy_Servant (Dec 21, 2017)

Today I had a good discussion with a friend of mine about the role of physical attraction in the pursuit of a relationship. The question we were trying to answer was: is it wrong to not pursue someone who is godly and pious simply because you do not find them physically attractive? Does anyone have any good resources that could help me with further understanding this topic?


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## Pergamum (Dec 21, 2017)

I think it should play a large role. Marriage is hard enough without thinking your spouse is ugly.

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## Cymro (Dec 21, 2017)

Here are some quotations about it.
You don’t value the book by its cover or the gilding of its pages, but by the worth of the matter within. Absalom was beautiful, and what better was he?
Beauty if it is not well disciplined, proves not a friend but a traitor. Three of David’s children were undone by it.
A wife is no helpmeet which is not ready to give spiritual comfort to her husband.
To follow nothing but the eye in the choice of a wife, is to make sense not a counsellor, but a tyrant.
Choose a wife rather by the ear than the eye.

Reactions: Like 5 | Edifying 2


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## Logan (Dec 21, 2017)

I fairly frequently recommend Gouge's book "Of Domestical Duties" (RHB reprint of three volumes under the title "Building a Godly Home"), and I think it's worth recommending again 

In the second portion, under marriage, after spending time determining who is eligible to be married and what the requirements are (Equality in years, estate, condition, piety, and religion), he goes on to say

"A first liking is sometimes on the parents' or other friends' part, and then made known to the party to be married, as the friends of Rebekah, liking the offer of Isaac which was made by Abraham's servant, made it known to Rebekah herself (Gen 24:58). Sometimes again the first liking is on the party's part that is to be married, and then if that party be under the authority of parents, the matter must be proposed to them, before there be any further proceeding, as Samson, who, seeing and liking a daughter of the Philistines, told his father and his mother (Judg. 14:2). even if the party is not under the authority of any, it is very fitting that counsel be taken of wise and understanding friends, that in a matter as weighty as marriage, there may be advice of more heads than one, for the preventing of what might happen through rashness.

"After a liking is thus taken by one party for a good mate, that liking must be proposed to the other party so liked, to know whether there is a reciprocal affection of one towards another. Thus Samson went and talked with that woman whom he liked to be his wife (Judg. 14:7).

"If at first there is a good liking mutually and thoroughly settled in both their hearts for one another, love is likely to continue in them forever, as things which are well-glued and settled before being shaken up and down will never be torn apart, but if they are joined together without glue, or shaken while the glue is moist, they cannot remain firm. Mutual love and good liking of each other is as glue. Let the parties to be married be well settled before they come to meet with trials through cohabitation, and that love will not easily be loosened by any trials."

Now I would add that I agree with Edwards that love is also a conscious decision, not just a feeling. But a mutual attraction is definitely recommended, whether that is attraction to character or physical appearance. The second can often follow the first.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 21, 2017)

Unworthy_Servant said:


> Today I had a good discussion with a friend of mine about the role of physical attraction in the pursuit of a relationship. The question we were trying to answer was: is it wrong to not pursue someone who is godly and pious simply because you do not find them physically attractive? Does anyone have any good resources that could help me with further understanding this topic?



Let's flip the question around: are you obligated to pursue someone to whom you are not attracted?

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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 21, 2017)

Without meaning to sound crude, there are certain physical duties that husbands and wives have to perform which cannot be done without physical attraction. For a Christian, physical attraction is not the only factor but it would be contrary to common sense to think that it is not an important factor.

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## Edward (Dec 21, 2017)

While genetics do play a role in appearance, it is wise to keep several things in mind. 

Most importantly, you sometimes can judge a book by its cover. 

A person that does not take care of their appearance while looking for a mate certainly won't take care of their appearance after marriage.

A person who is sloppy about how they look may well be sloppy in other areas of their life. 

On the other side of the coin, high maintenance brings its own costs.

Reactions: Like 3 | Amen 1


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## Dachaser (Dec 21, 2017)

Unworthy_Servant said:


> Today I had a good discussion with a friend of mine about the role of physical attraction in the pursuit of a relationship. The question we were trying to answer was: is it wrong to not pursue someone who is godly and pious simply because you do not find them physically attractive? Does anyone have any good resources that could help me with further understanding this topic?


The spouse that the Lord has for us will be very attractive in all areas to us, as we will see their inner beauty, and afterwards their physical one.

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## chuckd (Dec 21, 2017)

Unworthy_Servant said:


> Today I had a good discussion with a friend of mine about the role of physical attraction in the pursuit of a relationship. The question we were trying to answer was: is it wrong to not pursue someone who is godly and pious simply because you do not find them physically attractive? Does anyone have any good resources that could help me with further understanding this topic?


Not only physical attraction, but personality attraction, wealth, age, intelligence, etc. Just because two people are godly and pious does not mean they will be a good match.

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## KGP (Dec 21, 2017)

Cymro said:


> To follow nothing but the eye in the choice of a wife, is to make sense not a counsellor, but a tyrant.



This is a brilliant use of words in my opinion, very good quote, wherever you got it from.

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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 21, 2017)

Pergamum said:


> I think it should play a large role. Marriage is hard enough without thinking your spouse is ugly.


What about when the spouse gets old and loses the beauty of youth?


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## RamistThomist (Dec 21, 2017)

I have to wonder: I would guess that when most mature Christian suitors say they want a physically attractive wife, they probably don't mean it on the "supermodel" standard of the bell shaped curve. Especially when you consider the amount of warpaint and photoshop that goes into making that appearance.

So when a guy says I want an attractive wife, he doesn't mean the above. I guess some do

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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 21, 2017)

Cymro said:


> Here are some quotations about it.
> You don’t value the book by its cover or the gilding of its pages, but by the worth of the matter within. Absalom was beautiful, and what better was he?
> Beauty if it is not well disciplined, proves not a friend but a traitor. Three of David’s children were undone by it.
> A wife is no helpmeet which is not ready to give spiritual comfort to her husband.
> ...


Jeff, I have often found your wise counsel a blessing and the above is a great example of this.

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## Edm (Dec 21, 2017)

Luckily, I was blessed with not having to choose between looks and a good companion... that said. I value looks only so much as they can be an indication of other things. Someone who chooses not to care about their appearance most likely would not be compatible with my life. I also am a very active person, backpacking, camping, etc. If someone was severely overweight due to a lack of self discipline, they most likely would not share my interest in these things.


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## greenbaggins (Dec 21, 2017)

Stephen L Smith said:


> What about when the spouse gets old and loses the beauty of youth?



We need to keep in mind here that physical appearance is tied to character in interesting and often under-appreciated ways. I have met women who appear on the outside to be attractive in appearance, only to find out that when I better understood their bad character, their appearance altered in my mind. We cannot keep our character divorced completely from our outward appearance. Conversely, my twin brother used to say a lot, "I've never _met_ a beautiful woman; I _know_ quite a few." The flip side, in other words, is that some women who might appear less than glamorous at first, become more physically attractive as their sterling character starts to shine through.

The other thing to keep in mind is that a godly marriage improves with age, like fine wine. It does not deteriorate. Our culture says that physical appearance is the be-all and end-all of attraction, such that when the "bloom of youth" is gone, then all love goes, too. I firmly disagree. The biblical picture is far more holistic. 

Lastly, and this seems to be particularly important for men, who seem, on the whole, to be more visually oriented than women, a husband needs to make his wife the standard of beauty _to which all other women fall short_. This is an act of the will. Holding his wife to an outside standard of beauty (which, as has been pointed out, is actually quite fake) to which she cannot possibly measure up, is unfair and unloving.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 21, 2017)

Stephen L Smith said:


> What about when the spouse gets old and loses the beauty of youth?



By that stage, their relationship should have matured, deepened, and moved well beyond what it was at the beginning. But, in the early stages of a marriage, the husband needs to objectively find his wife attractive and the wife needs to know that her husband is attracted to her. Later, she still will be beautiful _to him_ even if she is less objectively attractive than she was in her earlier years.

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## AnnaBanana (Dec 21, 2017)

I personally think that someone's genuine love for the Lord is attractive. That and their heart, morals, standards, etc. Sure, looks are fine, but I think the things listed above is what makes someone attractive to me.


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## OPC'n (Dec 21, 2017)

I have to agree with Rev Lane. I've met people who I thought were absolutely stunningly beautiful and ended up not so gorgeous.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 21, 2017)

There are people who are probably "pretty" by anyone's standards, yet are so depraved (beyond the typical Calvinist sense) to such a degree that I wouldn't look twice. So while physical beauty is important, there is also the character factor. Character can also make a person "appear" beautiful to someone--and that's good, too.

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## Ben Zartman (Dec 21, 2017)

Edward said:


> While genetics do play a role in appearance, it is wise to keep several things in mind.
> 
> Most importantly, you sometimes can judge a book by its cover.
> 
> ...


This is great, Ed. Either way you're in trouble!

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## arapahoepark (Dec 21, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> We need to keep in mind here that physical appearance is tied to character in interesting and often under-appreciated ways. I have met women who appear on the outside to be attractive in appearance, only to find out that when I better understood their bad character, their appearance altered in my mind. We cannot keep our character divorced completely from our outward appearance. Conversely, my twin brother used to say a lot, "I've never _met_ a beautiful woman; I _know_ quite a few." The flip side, in other words, is that some women who might appear less than glamorous at first, become more physically attractive as their sterling character starts to shine through.
> 
> The other thing to keep in mind is that a godly marriage improves with age, like fine wine. It does not deteriorate. Our culture says that physical appearance is the be-all and end-all of attraction, such that when the "bloom of youth" is gone, then all love goes, too. I firmly disagree. The biblical picture is far more holistic.
> 
> Lastly, and this seems to be particularly important for men, who seem, on the whole, to be more visually oriented than women, a husband needs to make his wife the standard of beauty _to which all other women fall short_. This is an act of the will. Holding his wife to an outside standard of beauty (which, as has been pointed out, is actually quite fake) to which she cannot possibly measure up, is unfair and unloving.


Shallow Hal Syndrome! It is true but, to be sure not always the case. Nevertheless, it does happen often.


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## Polanus1561 (Dec 21, 2017)

In any case, I struggle to think of cases where someone was deciding between an attractive girl and a less attractive girl.

In God's providence, He uses physical beauty to guide a man's decision in pursuing a female.

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## Pergamum (Dec 21, 2017)

Many pious types sometimes tend to discount the factor of physical attraction, even as the world overemphasizes it. 

Or they tend to engage in false dichotomies (if you mention physical beauty as important they act as if you only believe physical beauty is important).

Physical beauty is one factor of many, and one of the more important factors I believe. There are many descriptions of physical attraction in the Song of Solomon.

Let's face it, there is a scale of marriage suitability and when we are looking for a spouse we try to find someone that scores high in all areas:

-Physical attraction and health 
-Kindness, compassion,
-Intelligence
-Similar background and beliefs
-Personality (smiling, positive, endearing)
-Good family background (Parents are married and not divorced).
-Lack of baggage

Some people may score high in all areas. Others may have beauty but hardly anything else.

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## VictorBravo (Dec 21, 2017)

Stephen L Smith said:


> What about when the spouse gets old and loses the beauty of youth?



I haven't seen this happen personally. My wife has even more beauty (physical, spiritual, intellectual) now than when we first met 27 years ago.

And I don't have to worry about my own loss of beauty from youth, because I never had it in the first place!

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## ZackF (Dec 21, 2017)

This is made way to complicated by thought experiments the will never correspond to reality. We're not Vulcans try to calculate our way through a false dilemma. It's not about non-elect, immoral and conceited hotties vs the dumpy, frumpy and smelly godly candidates. People run the spectrum among the believing/elect in sanctification levels along with degrees of physical attractiveness with a lot of subjectivity in the later. We can't pin the optimum down among specific folks who are called to be together.

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## Unworthy_Servant (Dec 22, 2017)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Let's flip the question around: are you obligated to pursue someone to whom you are not attracted?



No, but I don't think I have justification for my answer. I realize physical attraction does play a critical role in choosing a spouse, but what I've been trying to wrestle with is understanding if it is sinful or a product of sin that a Christian would choose not to pursue a godly woman as a wife solely because they are physically unattractive. Many of the responses have just appealed to common sense but haven't given any justification why it's OK. Please be charitable in your responses because I'm seeking to understand.


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## Cedarbay (Dec 22, 2017)

Jeremy, I would advise my son to only consider a godly woman he was attracted to, in the holistic sense being discussed here. There is no sin for you to decline pursuing any woman you believe is not a good fit for you, regardless of looks.

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## Cymro (Dec 22, 2017)

Here is the best quote and the regulative principle.
“While they behold your chaste conversation coupled with fear. Whose adorning let it not be that outward adorning of plaiting the hair, and wearing of gold, or of putting on of apparel; But let it be the hidden man of the heart, in that which is NOT corruptible, even the ornament of a meek and quiet spirit, which is in the sight of God of great price.”
It’s the inner beauty that makes her price far above rubies!

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## VictorBravo (Dec 22, 2017)

Cymro said:


> It’s the inner beauty that makes her price far above rubies!



Quite true, Jeff. But if I may be bold, from your avatar picture I see you have chosen a spouse whose inner beauty has made its way to her outer beauty.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 22, 2017)

Unworthy_Servant said:


> No, but I don't think I have justification for my answer. I realize physical attraction does play a critical role in choosing a spouse, but what I've been trying to wrestle with is understanding if it is sinful or a product of sin that a Christian would choose not to pursue a godly woman as a wife solely because they are physically unattractive. Many of the responses have just appealed to common sense but haven't given any justification why it's OK. Please be charitable in your responses because I'm seeking to understand.



I understand what you are saying. However, women can pick up on "white-knighting." If a girl thinks she is unattractive and that you are marrying her out of a sense of duty, she will resent it.

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## Ed Walsh (Dec 22, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Our culture says that physical appearance is the be-all and end-all of attraction, such that when the "bloom of youth" is gone, then all love goes, too. I firmly disagree. The biblical picture is far more holistic.



I said Amen to your whole post, but I am going to brag a little. I have the best of both. My wife is a Godly women _and_ still a babe. There are three photos below of her as a child, on our honymoon, and now. We are both 66 years old. Like I said, I just couldn't help it.



 

 

​

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## SolaScriptura (Dec 22, 2017)

Unworthy_Servant said:


> I've been trying to wrestle with is understanding if it is sinful or a product of sin that a Christian would choose not to pursue a godly woman as a wife solely because they are physically unattractive.



I think the cart is before the horse and things are all misplaced in your thinking. In real life, attraction plays a HUGE part in whether we give someone our time or attention, or even a second thought, romantically. Godliness is NOT something that can be immediately ascertained. On the contrary, you can only discover that someone is godly after lots of time spent in their company. And let me give you a clue: in real life, if a person is not attracted to the other person then there won't BE any interest to spend time together to learn more about the other.

Further, godliness is essential, but it isn't everything. There are lots of godly people out there that I would hate to be married to! Maybe they've got the personality of a wet blanket or maybe they have eccentric mannerisms, or they are just terrible conversationalists, or maybe they are dim witted - I couldn't bear to be married to a stupid person with whom I couldn't have intelligent conversation. Likewise, I'm a jovial loud-laughing jokester... if she hates to laugh... marrying her would be like getting sent to prison! Or in the vein of this thread, maybe they're just really ugly: I'm not sure I'd want the hassles of being married to a "beautiful person," but I sure as heck don't want to gag on vomit in the back of my throat whenever she comes in for a kiss.

I'm not sure why this is so hard to figure out: We are embodied beings, our bodies and physical tastes matter. Godliness is very important, but it isn't the sole criteria. Besides, when I hear people talking about "godliness" in a spouse, it seems like they're talking about a seasoned saint who's endured a lifetime of sanctification and refinement. Ha! Who of us when we were in our 20s took Jesus nearly as seriously as we do now, decades later? Perhaps speaking of "godliness" in a young person we should content ourselves by simply noting that they're on the right path and moving in the right direction.

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## greenbaggins (Dec 22, 2017)

SolaScriptura said:


> Besides, when I hear people talking about "godliness" in a spouse, it seems like they're talking about a seasoned saint who's endured a lifetime of sanctification and refinement. Ha! Who of us when we were in our 20s took Jesus nearly as seriously as we do now, decades later? Perhaps speaking of "godliness" in a young person we should content ourselves by simply noting that they're on the right path and moving in the right direction.



My wife knows many people who held out for years for the perfect spouse. They never got married, because there was always some small little thing wrong with the prospective suitor. What they really wanted was the end product, not the beginning product. Totally. Completely. From. Mars. Unrealistic.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 22, 2017)

Ben's comments are really to the point. Just because scripture tells us to marry "in the Lord" does not mean that godliness is the only factor in choosing a spouse. Anyone who thinks otherwise is just being naive and unrealistic. Lane's observation about those who wait for someone who is perfectly pious is likewise all too true. I have a younger friend who continually complains about many fine young women being "immature", but he does not seem to grasp that they will probably grow out of such "immaturity" when they get older.

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## ZackF (Dec 22, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> My wife knows many people who held out for years for the perfect spouse. They never got married, because there was always some small little thing wrong with the prospective suitor. What they really wanted was the end product, not the beginning product. Totally. Completely. From. Mars. Unrealistic.



Yeah. That's endemic in the unbelieving culture at large. I've wondered why so many unmarried couples hang on so long when one of them would like to be married. I can't imagine dating, let alone shacking up with someone for years and years and hearing from her 'I'm just not sure.' Years ago I asked an employee why he was still with his live in girlfriend when she didn't want to get married and he did. He said she loved him but her parents got divorced and didn't want that to happen to them. Post-modern logic. Commit to not commit in order to avoid failing to commit.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 23, 2017)

Another thought experiment: (and I am doing this because it draws out the implication of a claim).

Let's say there are three possible wife-options. All three are equally godly, etc. Option A is super attractive. Option B is not. Option C is similar to B, but slightly less attractive. Clearly Option A is out because that's not spiritual. Would it then be sin to choose B over C?

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## SolaScriptura (Dec 23, 2017)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Another thought experiment: (and I am doing this because it draws out the implication of a claim).
> 
> Let's say there are three possible wife-options. All three are equally godly, etc. Option A is super attractive. Option B is not. Option C is similar to B, but slightly less attractive. Clearly Option A is out because that's not spiritual. Would it then be sin to choose B over C?



Sounds like some have been listening to that old Jimmy Soul song...

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## Gforce9 (Dec 23, 2017)

Ed Walsh said:


> I said Amen to your whole post, but I am going to brag a little. I have the best of both. My wife is a Godly women _and_ still a babe. There are three photos below of her as a child, on our honymoon, and now. We are both 66 years old. Like I said, I just couldn't help it.
> 
> View attachment 5371 View attachment 5370 View attachment 5369​



Indeed, having both you are blessed, Ed! Your wife is stunning and your not bad looking, either!


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## Berean (Dec 23, 2017)

SolaScriptura said:


> Sounds like some have been listening to that old Jimmy Soul song...



I wanted to post that, Ben, but figured you had to be a pastor to get away with it.

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## Ed Walsh (Dec 23, 2017)

Gforce9 said:


> Ed! Your wife is stunning and your not bad looking, either!



She is! Me, not so much. I got the better end of the deal to be sure. But she still loves me. God has been good to me in many ways. Our lives have seen some difficulty to be sure. But, we adore each other still.

Thanks for the compliment.

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## ZackF (Dec 23, 2017)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Another thought experiment: (and I am doing this because it draws out the implication of a claim).
> 
> Let's say there are three possible wife-options. All three are equally godly, etc. Option A is super attractive. Option B is not. Option C is similar to B, but slightly less attractive. Clearly Option A is out because that's not spiritual. Would it then be sin to choose B over C?



If all things are equal pick the one you are most attracted to. No contest. 

PS. To not choose A is Manichean to the core. You're a heretic. So there.

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## ArminianOnceWas (Dec 23, 2017)

Generally speaking man and woman fall in love before marriage. To fall in love there is likely some chemical/emotional connection which produces a mutual physical attraction. Therefore the problem is solved. 

I never knew anyone who ever fell in love with someone they didn't find physically attractive. Perhaps somewhere they were mentally conscious that this person was not generally considered attractive but their chemical reaction overrode that.

I find it amazing (in a non-judgemental way) which posts get the most reactions in this forum.

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## a mere housewife (Dec 23, 2017)

Another thought experiment.

Think of yourself born into this world as a girl without beauty. You grow up increasingly conscious of that. You have the same longings to be loved as the beautiful girls around you -- around whom you grow up to feel ashamed and inferior. The world is always telling you, in every movie, advertisement, on every billboard, that beauty makes women more valuable. Even the 'spokespeople' for telling us that beauty is not what really matters are so stunning, and spend so many hours and so much money presenting that way, that they only clarify a feeling that physically unattractive women are not as important. You also overhear conversations like this one between Christian men, where you feel you are in a class whom it is thought 'nauseating' to kiss. Where your chances of being married boil down to your looks. And you realise that no matter how beautiful your character is, how intelligent you are, how gifted in other ways, you will never be as valuable even to Christian men as a girl with beauty.

That thought experiment leaves me in tears ... but I have cried in real life with friends who have watched others marry all around them while they remain single. And I have never felt in the 'beautiful' camp myself.

_Of course_ physical attraction needs to exist in a marriage. I agree with that completely. But three women never are all equally godly with all things equal in other ways except for their physical shape (as Lane pointed out earlier.) Their godliness takes very particular shape in their distinct personalities and gifts; and their attractiveness does too. If the only differences one can conceive between three "godly" women boil down to physical ones, and the only way we ourselves are attracted between people are conceived of as physical -- one must be blind to humans in general, not just women in particular. We don't choose our friends that way. And your wife is a lifelong friend. I'm sure there must have been some glitch in the way some things here have been phrased here.

But there are other relationships with women besides marriage, and I think placing value on physical attraction is more common sense and less a factor to feel guilty about if those other relationships are valued -- if one is treating women with dignity, worthy of attention for those godly, personal gifts, across a range of relationships. Single women also need men in their lives -- so Paul tells Timothy to treat women like sisters and mothers.

Lastly Christ is drawn to the godly woman you find unattractive. Even physically -- he died to be united to her. And He sees far more clearly than anyone. This doesn't mean people should pursue and marry without physical attraction, but they should realise that maybe God hides much of great value from the world in the area of physical beauty too. And I think it is right to always speak with consciousness of that.

"Favor is deceitful and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the Lord, she shall be praised."

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## RamistThomist (Dec 23, 2017)

ZackF said:


> If all things are equal pick the one you are most attracted to. No contest.
> 
> PS. To not choose A is Manichean to the core. You're a heretic. So there.



True, but I was writing it out in line with the OP.


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## ArminianOnceWas (Dec 23, 2017)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Another thought experiment: (and I am doing this because it draws out the implication of a claim).
> 
> Let's say there are three possible wife-options. All three are equally godly, etc. Option A is super attractive. Option B is not. Option C is similar to B, but slightly less attractive. Clearly Option A is out because that's not spiritual. Would it then be sin to choose B over C?



In this scenario, does the person love all three wife-options equally or does love make any difference whatsoever in choice? To me, love is very much part of marriage and an obvious part of any decision. Either the person loves all three equally which suggests none of them are to be chosen for marriage or the person deems love unnecessary when choosing a spouse which would call to attention other concerns.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 23, 2017)

ArminianOnceWas said:


> In this scenario, does the person love all three wife-options equally or does love make any difference whatsoever in choice? To me, love is very much part of marriage and an obvious part of any decision. Either the person loves all three equally which suggests none of them are to be chosen for marriage or the person deems love unnecessary when choosing a spouse which would call to attention other concerns.



Every other factor is equal: love, piety, etc. The only differing variable is looks.


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## ArminianOnceWas (Dec 23, 2017)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Every other factor is equal: love, piety, etc. The only differing variable is looks.



In that case, I would need to know how the one who was choosing a wife actually looked, because it's impractical to chose a candidate who is much more attractive or unattractive than one's self.


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## Alan D. Strange (Dec 23, 2017)

Heidi, just so. I was thinking how to weigh in on this with something of what you expressed, and you did it so beautifully. Thank you!

A person is a whole-package and mysterious--greater than the sum of the parts. When a man loves a woman, for instance, he says "I choose you," even as God does when He elects. God does not love us because we are the most lovely or righteous or holy. He loves us because He loves us. But, though He does not choose us due to faith or works foreseen, He does choose us, not randomly or without reason, which would render Him irrational, but for reasons known to Him, mysteriously and wonderfully.

When a man chooses a woman, the total package is in view. Of course, there's physical attraction and a delight in her beauty and loveliness. The beauty is not that of the world, simply, as many seductresses who are condemned biblically are quite alluring physically. The qualities of the loved one cannot properly be abstracted but are part of the mystery of the whole, addressing why those who are my friends are my friends, my wife is my wife, etc.

The reality of this is seen if my wife were to ask me, "why do you love me?" and I begin to expostulate all her virtues, only to be met with a sigh indicating the inadequacy of all my reasons for loving (I will still love her if she loses something, which is why we vow as we do in marriage), resolved only when I, in half desperation, confess "I love you because I love you!" Ah, there's what she was waiting for. God loves us because He loves us. We love one another as friends and spouses analogously.

Peace,
Alan

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## arapahoepark (Dec 23, 2017)



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## Jo_Was (Dec 28, 2017)

Forgive the un-Puritan-bluntness here, but whether I am ugly or fair, I sure hope my husband *sees* me like the the bride in Song of Solomon. She could have been a garish troll, for all we know, but that woman sure felt like a queen! 

Character and traits are important, but there is Biblical warrant to be in a relationship that is mutually pleasing in more than just spiritual matters. Especially when it comes to intimate matters...we as Christians understand it as the reflection and culmination of our emotional and spiritual connection as husband and wife. All physical and spiritual and emotional elements are at play, and build one another up, as they should. 

The more I fall in love with my husband as a spiritual, emotional, intellectual partner, I promise you that I have found him more attractive and becoming (physically) as we have grown together. It's a wonderful cycle of building-up that occurs, and a natural, God-ordained one at that (if I may be so bold).

Reactions: Like 2 | Edifying 1


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## Alan D. Strange (Dec 28, 2017)

Quite so, Jo! 

Nothing at all un-Puritan about your post, but, I would say, Puritanism at its best. I think here especially of Leland Ryken's treatment (in _Worldly Saints: The Puritans as They Really Were) o_f "Marriage and Sex."

I think part of the "I choose you" dynamic that I discussed above is the continual decision on the part of the husband for the wife and his growing in love for her: spiritually, intellectually, emotionally, physically, sexually, etc. And for her, the continual saying of "yes, I accept you, I receive you," to his "I choose you." 

I take your post as giving beautiful expression to that wifely dynamic of assent to and acceptance of who your husband is and what he has to offer to you. 

Peace,
Alan

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jo_Was (Dec 28, 2017)

> Nothing at all un-Puritan about your post, but, I would say, Puritanism at its best.



Thank you for that. I think I partly meant to insinuate that the Song of Solomon has more 'worldly' wisdom in it to offer relationships than the mainly-Christ-church relationship that "Puritans" often kept focus on (at least in popular view, and by by my own experience, at least many today do, even if the Puritans themselves perhaps were not as cut-and-dry as assumed). I might look into the book you suggested...seems like an interesting perspective.


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## AnnaBanana (Dec 28, 2017)

Ed Walsh said:


> I said Amen to your whole post, but I am going to brag a little. I have the best of both. My wife is a Godly women _and_ still a babe. There are three photos below of her as a child, on our honymoon, and now. We are both 66 years old. Like I said, I just couldn't help it.
> 
> View attachment 5371 View attachment 5370 View attachment 5369​



I love everything about this post!!!


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