# Certain classes best taken at Christian college?



## AThornquist (Jul 8, 2009)

Are there specific classes that would be worth spending extra money for at a Christian institution like Masters college rather than attending an UC? I am really unsure of what would be the best educational path that would be high quality, spiritually beneficial, and affordable. I am afraid of what a liberal bias might do to classes relating to history, the sciences, philosophy, religion, _et cetera_ while I am likewise hoping to not be in much (if any) debt because of school (which is the downside to Masters college). At this point I have a year of general ed classes planned out that are more "immune" to a liberal bias severely affecting my education (i.e. Math and English) and am really not sure if I just want to pay the extra money from my sophomore to senior years in order to attend a private institution that really _would_ be profitable in many ways. 

What are your thoughts on all of this? Do liberal influences on various classes really matter in the long run?


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## Scottish Lass (Jul 8, 2009)

I would argue that "soft" classes like English, history, etc. will be the most affected by liberalism at a state school, but I imagine you have the grounding to see through/past it, though I'm not necessarily endorsing the idea. 

Disclaimer: I took primarily "soft" classes at a state school while obtaining my degree in Secondary Education English. I was grounded better than most I knew, it wasn't super liberal, and God used the experience in my life.


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## ClayPot (Jul 8, 2009)

Religion classes! Unless you are interested in something like Goddess worship or something. You probably won't find that at The Master's College. Of course, seminary would probably be an even better option.


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## AThornquist (Jul 8, 2009)

Scottish Lass said:


> I would argue that "soft" classes like English, history, etc. will be the most affected by liberalism at a state school, but I imagine you have the grounding to see through/past it, though I'm not necessarily endorsing the idea.
> 
> Disclaimer: I took primarily "soft" classes at a state school while obtaining my degree in Secondary Education English. I was grounded better than most I knew, it wasn't super liberal, and God used the experience in my life.




English affected much? Really? I figured that since I would be learning how to write, lessons pertaining to punctuation, syntax, etc a liberal philosophy or worldview would not come into play as much.

-----Added 7/8/2009 at 09:59:02 EST-----



jpfrench81 said:


> Of course, seminary would probably be an even better option.



Aye, but pre-seminary?


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Jul 8, 2009)

Some "Christian" colleges are just as godless as secular universities. If you are grounded (as I think you are), then go the route that will get you the best all-round and most useful education possible. The major thing is to stick to the inerrancy of the Word. If you lose that, you lose everything.

Now, regarding the question, I would say that philosophy and literature classes would be the best to take at a Christian university.


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## AThornquist (Jul 8, 2009)

Thanks, Ben. I know what you mean about some institutions that are nominally Christian. Masters does not happen to be one, fortunately. Of course there are a handful of people who are indeed not saved (though a profession of faith is required) and Christians who will live according to the flesh as with any other Christian institution, Masters is certainly a holdout in regard to liberalism. Not to mention its educational programs are highly ranked. It's all so great...until I see the tuition cost.

(I have about ten Masters grads in my area who are well-grounded Christians and strong in the faith; they are realistic about Masters and yet every one of them strongly encourages me to attend because the spiritual and mental benefits greatly out-weigh the cons [such as some legalists]. That certainly intrigues me all the more.)


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## Calvinist Cowboy (Jul 8, 2009)

I actually considered the Masters College myself. A person from my church is going there right now. It does look like a fantastic school...until you see the sticker.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jul 8, 2009)

I do not know. I profited greatly from my philosophy classes at state schools. (Shawnee State University in Ohio and The University of Pittsburgh).


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## Edward (Jul 8, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> English affected much? Really? I figured that since I would be learning how to write, lessons pertaining to punctuation, syntax, etc a liberal philosophy or worldview would not come into play as much.



Many years ago, when I was in college, the English department was a hotbed of liberalism and leftism. Sociology was another place where you could easily find liberals. Journalism and the arts were also on the list. But the English faculty led the way. At the other end of the spectrum was the ag school, probably followed by business.


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## Scottish Lass (Jul 8, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> English affected much? Really? I figured that since I would be learning how to write, lessons pertaining to punctuation, syntax, etc a liberal philosophy or worldview would not come into play as much.



I was referring as much to your literature classes as your composition class. Composition classes aren't even always required, but lit. survey classes usually are. The topics they assign for you and how you respond to those topics may also be affected.


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## AThornquist (Jul 8, 2009)

Scottish Lass said:


> I was referring as much to your literature classes as your composition class. Composition classes aren't even always required, but lit. survey classes usually are. The topics they assign for you and how you respond to those topics may also be affected.



 Drats.


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## Kevin (Jul 8, 2009)

One of the benifits of my Christian College liberal Arts deree was the "community of faith" that existed among the students and faculty. The frame of reference was very different then what I experienced when I spent a semester at a secular (french) university.


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## TheocraticMonarchist (Jul 8, 2009)

My American History book (community college) made the puritans out to be child haters and claimed that George Whitefield promoted religious pluralism. 


I've really only enjoyed my English composition class. The history class was bias and Biology and Psychology had some good stuff but their theories dwell in The Land of Nut (i.e. Nutland). My Sociology class is very political. It's scary to see how influential Carl Marx is  

Anyway, I think a B.S. in Math is a good way to go if you want to avoid liberalism in state school. Even if you've got a good teacher, the odds are liberals printed the textbook, and that he was taught by liberals, and that he has a liberal boss.

At times I find it frustrating to not be to able to trust my educators. I'm learning discernment though


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## CharlieJ (Jul 8, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Are there specific classes that would be worth spending extra money for at a Christian institution like Masters college rather than attending an UC? I am really unsure of what would be the best educational path that would be high quality, spiritually beneficial, and affordable. I am afraid of what a liberal bias might do to classes relating to history, the sciences, philosophy, religion, _et cetera_ while I am likewise hoping to not be in much (if any) debt because of school (which is the downside to Masters college). At this point I have a year of general ed classes planned out that are more "immune" to a liberal bias severely affecting my education (i.e. Math and English) and am really not sure if I just want to pay the extra money from my sophomore to senior years in order to attend a private institution that really _would_ be profitable in many ways.
> 
> What are your thoughts on all of this? Do liberal influences on various classes really matter in the long run?



Andrew, a few thoughts. First, you may be able to due freshman level general ed courses through a variety of methods, including low-cost distance ed. A junior college or even community college is also fine, since your admissions to whatever college you actually want to attend will be based on your high school performance and your credits should transfer fine (especially in the UC system). 

Second, if your English ability is pretty high, you will probably be waived from any grammar and possibly composition courses. I don't know if you engaged in any AP/Honors classes, but sometimes those are accepted for college credit as well. 

Third, your planned major or eventual desired grad degree should be the main factor determining where you pursue your education. Do you have any idea what that will be?

Fourth, as pointed out earlier, the "soft sciences" are the most susceptible to philosophies such as social constructivism. Philosophy itself is a notable exception, because most American universities teach "analytic philosophy," which is more geared toward rigorous logical application and an introduction to the major "problems" of philosophy rather than teaching a specific school of philosophy. The major exception to that would be Catholic schools, which still teach "continental philosophy," generally with an Aristotelian bent.

Oh, and Andrew, I think Ben meant "sticker price."


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## Montanablue (Jul 9, 2009)

I attended a large state school and God used it greatly in my life, so I wouldn't avoid a state school just because of a fear of liberalism. (There may be other factors that make a Christian school a better option - I just wouldn't chose one only because you want to avoid liberals).

Personally, I think that if one is grounded in what one believes (and you seem to be well grounded) that a public university can be a great experience. University education should be about lively and engaged discussion and the free exchange of ideas. I had WONDERFUL discussions with both secular and religious students at my university. (Side note: it was actually through these discussions that I became reformed). A definite downside to a Christian school is that you won't be exposed to as many Marxists, Freudians, and the like. Its great to be able to engage with these people and bounce your ideas off each other. As long as you are grounded in what you believe and you are involved in a good church where you get good teaching (what better way to make sure you stay grounded?) I think a public university can be a great option. Just my 2 cents. I know others will differ and that's fine, but I am extremely happy that I chose a public university.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jul 9, 2009)

I actual preferred and sought out state schools and secular private colleges when I was applying for my undergrad because I knew what I was getting. There was no veneer on the God-hating. I'd rather have it up front and in my face then hidden beneath a supposed "Christian College" banner.


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## LawrenceU (Jul 9, 2009)

Pretty much all the classes will be slanted by a non-Biblical world view. (World View affects everything. Even hard science.) And, yes, usually the English departments lead the way in liberal thought, nihilism, and squishy thought. 

Have you thought about Bryan College?


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