# Independent Reformed Churches



## sastark (Jun 15, 2004)

I know that there are reformed churches out there that are not affiliated with any denomination. It's been my experience that there are always one or two in any metro area, and even a few scattered in smaller cities and towns.

So, here is my proposal: Let's start catalouing these churches. Maybe we could include the name of the church and the city where it is located. If you know anything else about the church, feel free to add that, too.

I'll start:

[b:aaf8ef6807]Reformation Church
Montague, CA[/b:aaf8ef6807]
I believe this church started from a split in the CRC in the area, but everytime I call the church, no one answers! I'd love to find out more about it.


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## sastark (Jun 15, 2004)

I've got another one:

[b:ad4f8aff6e]Emmanuel Grace Church
Citrus Heights, CA[/b:ad4f8aff6e]

Don't know much about them. I've heard they are reformed. I've also heard they think they are [i:ad4f8aff6e]the[/i:ad4f8aff6e] reformed church.


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## KayJay (Jun 16, 2004)

[b:c730dc6536]TAMPA COVENANT CHURCH[/b:c730dc6536]
Tampa, Florida

WOOHOOO! :thumbup:

This church came out of Bowling Green Covenant Church in Ohio. From what I understand, the first pastor (McAuliffe) as well as the church was initially charismatic-non-denominational. McAuliffe met Rushdooney and was introduced/persuaded of reformed theology/theonomy. When he came to Tampa - as a church planting venture - Tampa Covenant was reformed though some members from Bowling Green who came with him were charismatic (and still are). Anyway - It is kind of neat - I love that my church didn't start off reformed but is now. Praise the Lord!

[Edited on 6-16-2004 by KayJay]


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## sastark (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks Karen!

Just out of curiosity, does Tampa Cov. hold to a reformed confession (Like the Westminster or Heidelburg Catechism)?

I also think it is great that your church has become reformed! God is great!


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## KayJay (Jun 16, 2004)

We are credo - so maybe that nullifies the &quot;reformed&quot; in some people's minds... 

Well, they don't officially hold to any confession but one of the Weds. night classes is going through the Heidelburg Confession.

Also, I heard one of the pastors mention that our church probably would adhere to the 39 Articles (though I confess I haven't read those just yet) - though we are not Anglican or anything...

All my pastors are attending RTS now too...so we're on a good &quot;path&quot; theologically I think...


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## sastark (Jun 16, 2004)

Wow. Praise God.

So, another question: If you are studying through the Heidelberg, and your pastors are attending RTS, and your church would agree with the 39 articles, is there a desire to lead the church in a paedobaptist direction?

I promise I'm not trying to start a debate! I'm just curious!


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## KayJay (Jun 16, 2004)

haha...ok good about the debate 

on my part - I am a credo. for sure. Though I wouldn't say I'm a total cessationist - the church is not cessationist at all...that is my own personal issue with them that I'd love to see change.

To be honest - I'm not sure the pastors have a strong stance on paedo or credo. but I think they would practice either (I know people will freak out over this but I think its better to be open/learning than to swear that you have perfect theology and end up really wrong - ya know?) depending on the family's position on the issue. We have people who come from PCA churches and people who come from AOG churches etc. etc. The church was also dispensational - but now postmil. So - you could say they have a bit of an identity crisis haha...but I do love it - &quot;semper reformanda&quot; in action!


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## sastark (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks for the info Karen! Sounds like you church has come a long way. That's really great.


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## JohnV (Jun 16, 2004)

Seth:

There is an independent Reformed Church in Alberton, Ont. not too far away from us. It's about a 40 minute drive away. They came mostly out of the CRC originally, but have also some members who were dissatisfied with the FRC. I really don't know why they never joined to URC along with the rest of the independents a few years back (about ten years now, I guess. ) I don't know much about them. 

I just never considered them seriously for a few basic reasons: they are too far away for regular attendance, and they are independent.

They are, to the best of my knowledge, adherents to the Three Forms of Unity. They have a good pastor; I know him a bit. They also have a former pastor in their midst, whom they have licenced to preach from time to time, I believe.


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## sastark (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks John!

I wonder how many of those independent churches ended up [i:d8619f8b55]not[/i:d8619f8b55] going into the URC? I wonder if the church you mention was ever in the OCRC?


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## JohnV (Jun 16, 2004)

No, it wasn't Seth. I know that much. There is an OCRC about half an hour further, and they do have communication. I know that from my present church, which has some communication with both, along with an ARP as well. 

Now that my curiosity has been aroused, I do wonder why they didn't join one denomination or another. The Dutch are not much for independent churches. But I can also see that they would balk at joining the URC, for there was intention all along for merger talks with the CanRC. Some have left the URC over that. They should all have joined in with the OCRC, but they didn't.


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## sastark (Jun 16, 2004)

John,

Very interesting. I did a little research of my own. It turns out that the Independent CRC of Ancaster (in Alberton, ON) was (and possibly still is??) part of the Alliance of Reformed Churches. I got that from http://reformed.net/arc/index.shtml

Anyone know anything about Second CRC in Toronto? Are they affiliated with any group?


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## raderag (Jun 16, 2004)

Grace Christian Ctr
1500 Royston Ln 
Pflugerville, TX

Right across the street from my house. They are 'reformed Charasmatic'. A bit strange if you ask me, but the sermon was good.

http://www.gracechristiancenter.org/main.html

[Edited on 6-16-2004 by raderag]


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## sastark (Jun 16, 2004)

Thanks Brett!

Very interesing. I could not find anything on there web page that said anything about being &quot;reformed&quot;. Maybe I missed it?

But, hey, I'll take your word for it!


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 16, 2004)

Most of the churches I know here in the UK are independent (including the two mentioned below!). We may be 'baptistic' but we don't belong to any organisation, no matter how loose a grouping.


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## JohnV (Jun 16, 2004)

Seth:
[quote:c151bde0e2]Anyone know anything about Second CRC in Toronto? Are they affiliated with any group? [/quote:c151bde0e2]

As I recall Second CRC went with the URC. But now I'm not so sure, come to think of it. I'll see what I can find. 

And yes, the Alberton church was part of the Alliance. I did not know that Alliance still existed. I thought it fell apart after the URC formed, but it may be that I thought that because it was suggested at the start of the URC that the Alliance would cease if the URC started. I never really kept in touch with that. It could yet be that the Alliance is still working, and that that is the intitial starting point of the URC-CanRC merger. As far as I know, the URC still has some degree of fellowship with the FRC as well.


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## JohnV (Jun 16, 2004)

Here's the info on formerly 2nd CRC Toronto:
http://www.covenant-urc.org/urcna/churches.asp

It's near the bottom, and is now known as Covenant URC, in Etobicoke, which is a section of Toronto.


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## raderag (Jun 17, 2004)

[quote:7cef9fb420][i:7cef9fb420]Originally posted by sastark[/i:7cef9fb420]
Thanks Brett!

Very interesing. I could not find anything on there web page that said anything about being &quot;reformed&quot;. Maybe I missed it?

But, hey, I'll take your word for it!  [/quote:7cef9fb420]

Yes, they don't advertise it as they try to get alot of ex-pentecostals/charasmatics. We would not have gone if we would have known it was charasmatic. 

Anyway, the sunday school was a class on apologetics, and a very good one at that. The worship was more modern, but not much Charasmatic. The sermon was almost 1.5 hours, and I would say the Pastor hit on all 5 points pretty well. If I remember correctly, his explanation of election was extrememly well done. I spoke to several people afterwords, and they were all Calvinist. It was interesting to say the least.

Here are some hints that they are Calvinist:

[quote:7cef9fb420]
About humanity
We believe that humankind is God's unique creation. God created male and female in His own image with a potential for goodness and godliness. When they sinned, physical and spiritual death entered the human race resulting in separation and alienation from God. [b:7cef9fb420]We believe that mankind is totally depraved in his sin in the sense that sin now affects every part of mankind's constitution[/b:7cef9fb420]. We believe that in Adam the entire race fell, therefore all persons are now born with a sinful nature, are sinners by choice and therefore[b:7cef9fb420] spiritually dead, totally unable to please God[/b:7cef9fb420]. Consequently, [b:7cef9fb420]each human being is in need of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit (being born again) in order to enter the kingdom of God.[/b:7cef9fb420]


The Gospel
We believe that the Gospel entrusted to the Church is, in the first instance, God's Gospel (Mark 1:14; and Rom. 1:1). God is its author, and He reveals it to us in and by His Word. Its authority and truth rest on Him. We believe that the Gospel is the saving power of God in that the Gospel effects salvation to everyone who believes, without distinction (Rom. 1:16). [b:7cef9fb420]This efficacy of the Gospel is by the power of God Himself (1 Cor. 1:18). We affirm that the Gospel diagnoses the universal human condition as one of sinful rebellion against God, which, if unchanged, will lead each person to eternal loss under God's condemnation.[/b:7cef9fb420]


Salvation
We believe that the atonement of Christ by which, in His obedience, He offered a perfect sacrifice, propitiating the Father by [b:7cef9fb420]paying for our sins and satisfying divine justice on our behalf according to God's eternal plan, is an essential element of the Gospel.[/b:7cef9fb420] We believe that Christ's saving work included both His life and death on our behalf (Gal. 3:13). We declare that faith in the perfect obedience of Christ by which He fulfilled all the demands of the Law of God on our behalf is essential to the Gospel. We believe that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Jesus Christ alone. [b:7cef9fb420]It is entirely an act of the grace of God and not dependent on human effort.[/b:7cef9fb420]

We believe that the biblical doctrine of justification by faith alone, in Christ alone, is essential to the Gospel (Rom. 2:28; 4:5; Gal. 2:16). We believe that the [b:7cef9fb420]doctrine of imputation[/b:7cef9fb420](reckoning or counting) both of our sins to Christ and of His righteousness to us, whereby our sins are fully forgiven and we are fully accepted, is [b:7cef9fb420]essential to the biblical Gospel[/b:7cef9fb420] (2 Cor. 5:19-21). We deny that we are justified by the righteousness of Christ infused into us or by any righteousness that is thought to inhere within us. We believe that the righteousness of Christ by which we are justified is properly His own, which He achieved apart from us, in and by His perfect obedience. This righteousness is counted, reckoned, or imputed to us by the forensic (that is legal) declaration of God, as the sole ground of our justification. We deny that any works we perform at any stage of our existence add to the merit of Christ or earn for us any merit that contributes in any way to the ground of our justification (Gal. 2:16; Eph. 2:8-9; Titus 3:5).

We believe that a person becomes a child of God by placing their faith and trust in Jesus Christ. In doing so their sins are forgiven, once for all, and they become a new creation in Christ. We believe that saving faith includes mental acceptance of the Gospel, acknowledgment of our own sin and need, and personal trust and reliance upon Christ and His work. We believe that, while all believers are indwelt by the Holy Spirit and are in the process of being made holy and conformed to the image of Christ, those consequences of justification are not its ground. God declares us just, remits our sins, and adopts us as His children, by His grace alone, and through faith alone, because of Christ alone, while we are still sinners (Rom. 4:5). We believe that saving faith results in sanctification, the transformation of life in growing conformity to Christ through the power of the Holy Spirit. Sanctification means ongoing repentance, a life of turning from sin to serve Jesus Christ in grateful reliance on Him as one's Lord and Master (Gal 5:22-25; Rom. 8:4, 13-14).

We believe that each believer is sealed and secured as a result of their position in Christ and by the power of the Holy Spirit. We believe that the evidence of salvation should be a desire to love and serve God, the manifestation of the fruit of the Holy Spirit, a passion for sharing the gospel, and good works. We believe that nothing can be added or taken away from the finished work of Christ on the cross.[/quote:7cef9fb420]

I agree, calvinism is a bit cloaked, but you should get it from the SOF.

Anyway, I would have other issues with the church, but it is encouraging.

[Edited on 6-17-2004 by raderag]


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## sastark (Jun 17, 2004)

[quote:431e0fbe1c][i:431e0fbe1c]Originally posted by JohnV[/i:431e0fbe1c]
Here's the info on formerly 2nd CRC Toronto:
http://www.covenant-urc.org/urcna/churches.asp

It's near the bottom, and is now known as Covenant URC, in Etobicoke, which is a section of Toronto. [/quote:431e0fbe1c]

Thanks for the info John!


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## sastark (Jun 17, 2004)

[quote:0338ea8963][i:0338ea8963]Originally posted by JohnV[/i:0338ea8963]
And yes, the Alberton church was part of the Alliance. I did not know that Alliance still existed. [/quote:0338ea8963]

John,

I'm not sure if the Alliance still exists or not. It is very possible that the website I referenced above is old and has not been updated for years.


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## sastark (Jun 17, 2004)

[quote:78daa84198][i:78daa84198]Originally posted by raderag[/i:78daa84198]
Yes, they don't advertise it as they try to get alot of ex-pentecostals/charasmatics. We would not have gone if we would have known it was charasmatic. 

Anyway, the sunday school was a class on apologetics, and a very good one at that. The worship was more modern, but not much Charasmatic. The sermon was almost 1.5 hours, and I would say the Pastor hit on all 5 points pretty well. If I remember correctly, his explanation of election was extrememly well done. I spoke to several people afterwords, and they were all Calvinist. It was interesting to say the least.[/quote:78daa84198]

Well, it's a start!

I didn't read through there entire SOF when I was at their web site. Thanks for posting the relevant sections!


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## ReadBavinck (Feb 17, 2006)

It seems this thread idea didn't get very far. But, thought I'd toss another one on.


*Church of the Redeemer* Mesa, AZ

The church has paedo- and credo- baptist members. Subscribes to Three Forms of Unity and the WCF.

[Edited on 2-17-2006 by CJ_Chelpka]


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## sastark (Feb 17, 2006)

Thanks for the info, Christopher. Does the church have both paedo- and credo- officers, in addition to members? Just curious.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 18, 2006)

Independent Reformed Church is an oxymoron.


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## satz (Feb 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Independent Reformed Church is an oxymoron.



Depends on how strict you are with your defintion of 'reformed' i guess...

I am sure there are plenty of independent biblical churches though.

[Edited on 2-18-2006 by satz]


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## Robin (Feb 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by satz_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



Both these points are meaningful....

out here we're getting "independent Reformed" churches progressing towards joining with a legit denom (confession) in the classic, historic sense.

Grace Evangelical Reformed Church in Torrance, Calif., joined the URC after much transition (you can imagine!)

Remember, becoming Reformed takes time and is a process!



Robin


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## ReadBavinck (Feb 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> Thanks for the info, Christopher. Does the church have both paedo- and credo- officers, in addition to members? Just curious.



Yes, we do.


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