# No Tie, No Preaching?



## Wynteriii (Oct 27, 2013)

I'm trying to work on clever lines for threads so cut me some slack

How do you guys feel about ties. I was preaching without a tie and I was told

"Your preaching now, time for you to look like a preacher. Start wearing a better dress shirt and tie"

I think I will start to for this service but for others I wear what I normally do that gives the impression that I am worshipping God and showing respect to Him and His Word.

That is if they don't like my geneva robes idea. 

Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk 4


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## he beholds (Oct 27, 2013)

I'd say, since you are in training, and if that means you've got a boss man, do what he does or says you should/may do.


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## Pergamum (Oct 27, 2013)

Let your dress fit your context (unless you're preaching to naked natives). Wear what is expected of you, at least until you get older or out of training.


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## reaganmarsh (Oct 27, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> Let your dress fit your context (unless you're preaching to naked natives). Wear what is expected of you, at least until you get older or out of training.



Amen to this counsel. I much prefer to preach without a tie, but it is a utterly inconsequential matter to wear one when I think of God's glory, the souls of men, and eternity. Wisdom and humility bid us not distract from the message of the cross by our dress. Let the offense come from proclaiming the crucified Christ, not from our wardrobe. I fear that we are not so far removed from Ed Young Jr. as we think we are. 

Love your people where they are and be done with this unimportant matter for the sake of the elect. I was reading a biography a while back where the writer said that his subject (J.C. Ryle) was ever known as a man of fundamental principles, and every area of his life was consumed with transmitting them for the good of souls and the glory of God. May that be said of us as ministers of the gospel. 
. 



PS - I don't intend this as a rebuke -- I don't know you -- so I do hope you don't hear that in my tone. I do, however, intend it to speak directly to a matter that too often (wrongly, and perhaps sinfully) sidetracks us younger ministers from the urgency of the business of our Father and the privilege of shepherding Christ's flock. 

Grace to you, Wynter. May you and your congregation know Christ's richest blessings as you labor together in the Kingdom.


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## Rich Koster (Oct 27, 2013)

Ties are ornaments. We have buttons and snaps on our shirts now. Ties used to serve a function before snaps and buttons. I don't see anything in 1 Tim 3 or Titus about elders being required to wear ornaments. I would lean towards the Geneva robe.


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## jambo (Oct 27, 2013)

In my own church I have not worn a tie whilst preaching for years. The only time I would wear a tie would be if I was asked to speak in another church. If I knew the church expected a tie or not then I would dress accordingly. However apart from weddings and funerals it has been almost 20 years since I last wore a suit to church.


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## Edward (Oct 27, 2013)

Rich Koster said:


> Ties are ornaments.



Ties are a sign of respect. Most courtrooms I've been in, if you show up without a jacket and tie, you'll get some one-on-one time with the judge. We are business casual at work, but if a honcho shows up from headquarters on a scheduled visit, you'd better dig out a coat and tie to wear that day.


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## Bill The Baptist (Oct 27, 2013)

"And Jesus went up on the mount, straightened his tie, and began to preach." Oh wait, that's not in the Bible, so I will continue to be tie free.


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## Rich Koster (Oct 27, 2013)

Edward said:


> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
> > Ties are ornaments.
> ...



We each have an opinion. Some of the biggest phonies in the world wear ties every day. They don't have my respect, or most others also. I guess the binding of the conscience, by culture, is acceptable? I've been in courtrooms as a juror and as a defendant in traffic court, and never heard a word about ties or how I was dressed.


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## ZackF (Oct 27, 2013)

Wynteriii said:


> I'm trying to work on clever lines for threads so cut me some slack
> 
> How do you guys feel about ties. I was preaching without a tie and I was told
> 
> ...



This is a hobby horse of mine so I'll try to restrain myself. Dress anymore these days is a dicey subject. Foppery and show offs have always been around but historically the idea of dressing up was as much about respect for other people, their places and their occasions than self-respect. While in the past, say during Victorian/Edwardian times, the need and use of formal dress was exaggerated while today men think they are too tough to maintain one sport jacket or suit for weddings and funerals. I think society, though I wasn't alive, had the proper balance in the mid 20th century say from 1940-1975. 

Not a preacher man nor a son of a preacher man but I'd tie up in this instance. Likewise, in certain other settings/churches a tie may be inappropriate. When you are older you will have more flexibility one way or another and be able to get away with your own style. Somewhere between our society's, particularly male society, utterly ridiculous refusal to dress up for anything and the tradition of 100 years ago to wear a suit in 100 degree weather while gardening is the appropriate attire. Dress in a way to commend and convey respect for the peoples and the occasions you find yourself in.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 27, 2013)

I think you should not try to shake it up. Do what your pastor says.


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## kodos (Oct 27, 2013)

We should not be so offended by these things, as we do understand we have freedom to wear a tie or not a tie. But why cause an offense or place a stumbling block in front of weaker brethren? When preaching, please consider if you want them to focus on your wardrobe or the Word of God. 

Over time you can discuss this issue with the session of the church and work with the congregation. But take your time with these secondary issues, preach the Word faithfully, and let this process take time and don't be so concerned that the "man" is making you do something, unless of course it is unscriptural. Put a tie on. I don't grumble about it when I have to go to a wedding and wear a tie, just take it all in stride and consider what a great privilege you have to preach the Word of God.

Let them get used to knowing you and not be branded as the "young guy who is disrespectful", but rather become the "faithful young preacher who changed our mind on dress".


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## ZackF (Oct 27, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> "And Jesus went up on the mount, straightened his tie, and began to preach." Oh wait, that's not in the Bible, so I will continue to be tie free.



He didn't button his skinny jeans either.


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## Stephen L Smith (Oct 27, 2013)

kodos said:


> We should not be so offended by these things, as we do understand we have freedom to wear a tie or not a tie. But why cause an offense or place a stumbling block in front of weaker brethren? When preaching, please consider if you want them to focus on your wardrobe or the Word of God.
> 
> Over time you can discuss this issue with the session of the church and work with the congregation. But take your time with these secondary issues, preach the Word faithfully, and let this process take time and don't be so concerned that the "man" is making you do something, unless of course it is unscriptural. Put a tie on. I don't grumble about it when I have to go to a wedding and wear a tie, just take it all in stride and consider what a great privilege you have to preach the Word of God.
> 
> Let them get used to knowing you and not be branded as the "young guy who is disrespectful", but rather become the "faithful young preacher who changed our mind on dress".



Thank you. I think this advice is very wise.

In Western Culture there is a tendency to 'dumb things down'. There is also a tendency to individual expression to the point of rebellion. there are aspects of this that must be challenged biblically. 

I have no strong views on a tie as such. But I do firmly believe in the importance and authority of the preached word. If a lack of a tie distracts from that then for the sake of letting people focus on the scriptures, wear a tie. Wisdom must dictate overall.


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## Stephen L Smith (Oct 27, 2013)

KS_Presby said:


> historically the idea of dressing up was as much about respect for other people, their places and their occasions than self-respect. While in the past, say during Victorian/Edwardian times, the need and use of formal dress was exaggerated while today men think they are too tough to maintain one sport jacket or suit for weddings and funerals. I think society, though I wasn't alive, had the proper balance in the mid 20th century say from 1940-1975.



Agreed


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## Quatchu (Oct 27, 2013)

I think its completely fine if a pastor chooses not to wear a tie underneath his Geneva gown.


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## Philip (Oct 27, 2013)

You could always do a clerical collar . . .


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## Bill The Baptist (Oct 27, 2013)

KS_Presby said:


> He didn't button his skinny jeans either.



I would agree that a pastor should dress in a way that does not draw undue attention to himself. Certainly he is free to wear a tie if so desired, I was simply pointing out that there is no biblical mandate to wear one. Skinny jeans are just plain wrong in any context.


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## Edward (Oct 27, 2013)

Rich Koster said:


> I've been in courtrooms as a juror and as a defendant



Things tend to be more lax for jurors. Here's the rules from one court:

"Appropriate dress is required. Coat and tie is preferred for male jurors. Female jurors may wear pant suits or dresses."

(Hint: when a federal judge 'prefers' something, it's a really good idea to do it.)

In state court, things are more relaxed for jurors:' “Business Casual” would be considered an appropriate way to dress for jury duty.'

And if your lawyer didn't tell you to dress up when you were a defendant, you really should probably look for a different lawyer. And if he or she wasn't dressed up, you definitely need to. 



Rich Koster said:


> I guess the binding of the conscience, by culture, is acceptable?



Well, if your conscience would be bound by dressing to society's standards, dress as you wish, and bear the consequences proudly. And, if, like the original poster, you choose to dress down to preach at a church where more respect is usually shown through attire, then don't expect to be asked back.


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## Wynteriii (Oct 27, 2013)

Thanks for all the post but now I have time for clarification.

1. Yes I have brought this issue up before and wanted to do so again to get more opinions on the matter. I think the previous thread was based on the want to wear a tie because Ronald Reagan wore one in the oval office. I got responses for that which were interesting and now I want more responses that will me understand the different sides of the issue. Not very "punkish"...is it Ben?

2. When I say I am going to where a tie for one out of the three services. It is because someone said I needed to "look like a minister" in a same sort of way we are to "walk like an Egyptian". This someone listened to my whole sermon and came out of it thinking I need a tie. If the issue of tie wearing is so great to this person to the point were it deters them the scriptures preached on as well as the sermon itself, then suit me up and grab me my finest tie! I think I expressed my want to do this for the service that this person is apart of in the OP. I do not mean to cause an offense nor cause a stumbling block for this person. 

3. The other 2 services that we have is one that is casual dress (we got a lot of people heading from work right to church, this is a Saturday Evening service (another thread topic for another day)) and another Sunday service that is a mix of casual,semi-formal,and formal. My normal wear for Sunday is semi-formal since that is what the majority in all three services. They have no issue with it and in two of the services I have heard people actually like. The third service which is held early Sunday morning is the one that has the minority that I am trying to ease. 

4. The Geneva robes would be a long way off from becoming used in my church. It is just a like of mine that people know of.



SolaScriptura said:


> But I'm also not a fan of some punk "minister-in-training" thinking its his calling to "expose the cold dead formalism" of the congregants by breaking the rules.



Brother, you are truly mistaken and would wish you either inquire whether these things are so before throwing out accusations. This is the first time I have been told by a congregant that it is requirement to wear a tie in order to look like a minister. The other time was a suggestion by the youth pastor who merely suggested I do so, he did not make it requirement. How can you say that I'm trying to expose formalism by giving into this person's demands so that when the person see's me preaching (which is always one particular service) that the person will see a preacher that fits their "requirements" and allowing them to concentrate on the worship of God, reading of His word as well as preaching of. 

Look, "not a kid" -- I not trying to shake things up, I'm in fact trying for the opposite. I would love to discuss this more with you either on private message or on this thread.


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## Andres (Oct 27, 2013)

SolaScriptura said:


> But I'm also not a fan of some punk "minister-in-training" thinking its his calling to "expose the cold dead formalism" of the congregants by breaking the rules.
> Look, kid - you've mentioned this before, quit hashing out this argument here: You're JUST a trainee.



Brother, while I think the overall message of your advice is good, I don't think refering to our brother as "punk", "kid", and "JUST a trainee" are very charitable. As older, experienced ministers of the gospel, let us advise, correct, and encourage him with grace, humility, and love.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 27, 2013)

Andres said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > But I'm also not a fan of some punk "minister-in-training" thinking its his calling to "expose the cold dead formalism" of the congregants by breaking the rules.
> ...



You are right.


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## THE W (Oct 27, 2013)

I really have an aversion to the notion that you should have to wear a suit and tie to preach the Word and someone getting on your case about it is an odd thing. 

I really had to look for a way to say this as lightly as i could. I don't agree with such an institution at all.

With that said, it's not a hill to die on. Just do it.


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## Jack K (Oct 27, 2013)

If it's customary at your church for the preacher to wear a tie, then wear a tie. If you don't, you run the risk of generating needless offense. Do your best to make sure that if anyone feels any offense as a result of your preaching, it comes from them being confronted by the truth of Scripture... not from lesser things like what you decide to wear.


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## sevenzedek (Oct 27, 2013)

Need a Bible verse?

Romans 13:7
Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.


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## Wynteriii (Oct 28, 2013)

I think my last post answered a few questions and probably sheds some light on the issue at hand.


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 28, 2013)

Sufficiently discussed.


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