# RPCNA Ordination Vows



## Craig.Scott

Could someone please post the ordination vows of the RPCNA please? 




In Christ


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## JML

*Queries for Ordination, Installation, and Licensure*

1. Do you believe the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments to be the Word of God, and the only infallible rule of faith and life?

2. Do you believe that the Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God and the only Redeemer of men, and do you confess Him publicly as your Saviour and Lord?

3. Do you believe that it is the duty of Christians to profess publicly the content of faith as it applies to the particular needs of each age and situation, and that such public profession, otherwise called covenanting, should be made formally by the churches and other institutions as well as informally by each believer according to his ability?

4. Do you believe in and accept the system of doctrine and the manner of worship set forth in the Westminster Confession of Faith, the Larger and Shorter Catechisms, and the Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church, as being agreeable to, and founded upon, the Scriptures?

5. Do you believe it to be the teaching of Scripture—that church and state are distinct and separate institutions; that both are under the mediatorial rule of the Lord Jesus Christ; and that the permanent form of church government is presbyterian?

6. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is Saviour and Lord of men and nations, and that in loyalty and obedience to Him, it is our duty to follow the noble example of the faithful confessors and martyrs of Jesus in their witness for divine truth, and in their sacrifices and labors to establish the Kingdom of God on earth?

7. So far as you can know in your own heart, is it the call of Christ, the glory of God and the welfare of the church, and not any selfish object, that moves you to undertake this sacred office?

8. That you may perform faithfully all the duties of the office to which you have been called, do you engage to seek the guidance of the Holy Spirit? Do you promise, in His strength, to live a holy and exemplary life, to study and promote the purity, peace, unity and progress of the church—

(_to deacons_): to lead the congregation in the ministry of mercy, to practice the grace of scriptural stewardship, to cultivate it in the congregation, and to endeavor to handle the Lord’s money in a manner which is efficient and above reproach?

(_to elders_): to watch over the spiritual growth of the members of the congregation, to endeavor to win others to Christ, to visit the afflicted and to attend the meetings associated with your office?

(_to persons certified to preach, or to licentiates_): to seek diligently to become an able expositor of the Word, an understanding and helpful counselor, a true minister of God?

(_to ministers_): to bring to your congregation the fruits of earnest study of the Word, to maintain a testimony for the Kingdom of God, to endeavor to minister to others and win them to Christ, to watch for souls as one who must give account?

9. Do you promise subjection in the Lord to the courts of this church, and engage to follow no divisive courses from the doctrine and order which the church has solemnly recognized and adopted; and do you promise to submit to all the brotherly counsel which your brethren may tender you in the Lord?


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## JML

You can also download the entire constitution here:

The Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America - Convictions


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## Marrow Man

Those are excellent ordination vows.


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## Logan

Craig,

I'd recommend reading some of the Testimony to get an idea as to what it is about. As I said in the other thread, its purpose is primarily expository, and it does a fairly good job at that, though not with nearly the same majesty as the confession. I find it very helpful in many cases.

If you're particularly interested in ordination, the examination procedures are listed in the constitution.


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## Craig.Scott

Hi Logan, 

I studied the testimony whilst I was on placement in the RPCNA during the summer. I was very much disappointed and worried at the state of office bearers and vows.


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## Logan

Do you have specifics?


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## Craig.Scott

Logan said:


> Do you have specifics?



Exclusive Psalmody, Sabbath keeping, women deacons, civil magistrate are just a few. 

It saddens me as a RP I could never be in the RPCNA.


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## Logan

What do you think the RPCNA teaches on exclusive psalmody and sabbath keeping that is off base from the WCF?


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## Craig.Scott

Logan said:


> What do you think the RPCNA teaches on exclusive psalmody and sabbath keeping that is off base from the WCF?



Apologies, it's not the teaching (I agree with it) but the subscription. I met elders who did not agree with EP and who broke the Sabbath. 

How can one vow before God the WCF and do that? Apparently it's allowed to due exceptions, yet they vowed before God


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## JML

Logan said:


> What do you think the RPCNA teaches on exclusive psalmody and sabbath keeping that is off base from the WCF?



Not answering for Craig but I have found it is not the teaching but the living out of the issues he listed. Having said that, I love the RPCNA and there are some very solid churches in the denomination and some TEs that practice what they preach. However, I have met others that did not. This I guess would be true of any denomination though.


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## kodos

Craig.Scott said:


> Logan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think the RPCNA teaches on exclusive psalmody and sabbath keeping that is off base from the WCF?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies, it's not the teaching (I agree with it) but the subscription. I met elders who did not agree with EP and who broke the Sabbath.
> 
> How can one vow before God the WCF and do that? Apparently it's allowed to due exceptions, yet they vowed before God
Click to expand...


Is an elder in the RPCNA allowed to take exception to Sabbath keeping and Exclusive Psalmody? I wasn't aware that was the case, as even a member has to vow to uphold the 4th Commandment, and so it would be odd to me that an ordained man can take an exception to this.


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## Logan

Craig.Scott said:


> Apologies, it's not the teaching (I agree with it) but the subscription. I met elders who did not agree with EP and who broke the Sabbath.



As John said, That would be a problem with the individuals, local session, or specific churches, not the denomination though.


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## N. Eshelman

kodos said:


> Craig.Scott said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Logan said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you think the RPCNA teaches on exclusive psalmody and sabbath keeping that is off base from the WCF?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Apologies, it's not the teaching (I agree with it) but the subscription. I met elders who did not agree with EP and who broke the Sabbath.
> 
> How can one vow before God the WCF and do that? Apparently it's allowed to due exceptions, yet they vowed before God
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is an elder in the RPCNA allowed to take exception to Sabbath keeping and Exclusive Psalmody? I wasn't aware that was the case, as even a member has to vow to uphold the 4th Commandment, and so it would be odd to me that an ordained man can take an exception to this.
Click to expand...


I have never heard of elders taking exception to the 4th commandment or psalmody. I have heard many take exception to women deacons. 

I cannot disagree with Mr. Scott's assessment though, our confessionalism is, sadly, sometimes less than evangelicalism. Mr. Scott and I have talked face-to-face about these issues, and, of course, this problem is not in all sessions, but it is being fought in all presbyteries. 

Pray for us- may the Lord give us further instruction and reformation through his word.


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## JML

N. Eshelman said:


> I cannot disagree with Mr. Scott's assessment though, our confessionalism is, sadly, sometimes less than evangelicalism. Mr. Scott and I have talked face-to-face about these issues, and, of course, this problem is not in all sessions, but it is being fought in all presbyteries.



Pastor,

What do you think would be some ways of solving this? More thorough examination of candidates? More detailed vows?


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## jandrusk

If the candidates are not living a life consistent with the vows, then it should be up to the sessions and presbytery to investigate this inconsistency. I would also hope that some observant members would raise the complaint. You can only vet a candidate so much. Like mom always said, proof is in the pudding. This is why we have church discipline.


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## N. Eshelman

John Lanier said:


> N. Eshelman said:
> 
> 
> 
> I cannot disagree with Mr. Scott's assessment though, our confessionalism is, sadly, sometimes less than evangelicalism. Mr. Scott and I have talked face-to-face about these issues, and, of course, this problem is not in all sessions, but it is being fought in all presbyteries.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pastor,
> 
> What do you think would be some ways of solving this? More thorough examination of candidates? More detailed vows?
Click to expand...


I don't think that the problem is the vows. The vows are fine. The problem is a long standing problem in our denomination of understanding what confessionalism is. Upon his return from Manchuria as a missionary, Dr. JG Vos (son of Geerhardus Vos) started the Blue Banner of Faith and Life because he saw that the the RPCNA was moving away from confessionalism and not understanding reformed doctrine. That was a fight that began over a generation ago. Things have slowly and consistently moved in a confessional direction since then. I believe that we are much more confessional than we were a generation ago- and that is a result of a number of things: 
1. More thorough examination of students. 
2. Better administration and instruction at the denominational seminary. 
3. Being blessed from other denominations- many of our pastors are men from outside of the RPCNA, and have come in BECAUSE of confessionalism, regulated worship, and the teachings concerning mediatorial kingship of Christ. 
4. A renewed interest in confessionalism and the ordinary means of grace by long standing RP members and families. 

I don't think that there is an easy answer about what ELSE needs to be done. The trajectory is good, although there is a lot of work that still needs to be done. I have said to presbyters that we just need to be bold and "not sustain" men who are not confessional. Period. We do not do presbytery examinations to be nice guys or friends- we do them to protect the church and her doctrine. I am committed to upholding confessionalism... and that is the GENERAL direction of our church.


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## kodos

jandrusk said:


> If the candidates are not living a life consistent with the vows, then it should be up to the sessions and presbytery to investigate this inconsistency. I would also hope that some observant members would raise the complaint. You can only vet a candidate so much. Like mom always said, proof is in the pudding. This is why we have church discipline.



Agreed. I would also gently ask Mr. Scott to clarify his statements then on exceptions being made to the 4th Commandment and the Lord's Day if he has no proof that men are able to offer such exceptions and be ordained/installed in the RPCNA. I would also encourage Mr. Scott to continue to help the RPCNA by lovingly rebuking any elders in the RPCNA who are in fact dishonest about their subscription and their vows. And if they do not repent, then to bring the issue to the session or presbytery in question. Such actions would help speed the RPCNA along the trajectory that Pastor Eshelman has described in this thread.


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## Logan

Amen!


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## Craig.Scott

kodos said:


> jandrusk said:
> 
> 
> 
> If the candidates are not living a life consistent with the vows, then it should be up to the sessions and presbytery to investigate this inconsistency. I would also hope that some observant members would raise the complaint. You can only vet a candidate so much. Like mom always said, proof is in the pudding. This is why we have church discipline.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. I would also gently ask Mr. Scott to clarify his statements then on exceptions being made to the 4th Commandment and the Lord's Day if he has no proof that men are able to offer such exceptions and be ordained/installed in the RPCNA. I would also encourage Mr. Scott to continue to help the RPCNA by lovingly rebuking any elders in the RPCNA who are in fact dishonest about their subscription and their vows. And if they do not repent, then to bring the issue to the session or presbytery in question. Such actions would help speed the RPCNA along the trajectory that Pastor Eshelman has described in this thread.
Click to expand...



I made my concerns known during my internship, so i will refrain from giving names and examples on a forum. I complained to elders of office bearers (elders) breaking the Sabbath. One example was going to restaurants on the Lord's Day. This is one example, and will not gibve others online, but i certainly made my complaints known to the suitable people during my time in the RPCNA on placement.

I truly pray for reformation in the RPCNA, and i learned a lot during the summer. I met many godly men, and value my time learning from such men, as Nathan Eshelman above. I am a friend of the RPCNA, and as a friend i believe she has departed from being covenanters, and headed towards the tradition of the secceders and the american presbyterians. I desire to return Aug 2014 for a 'vacation' and would love to rekindle my fellowship with many men.


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## kodos

Encouraged that you were able to do so! I certainly have no desire to have you "name names" on a forum, but am glad that you have discussed this with the men in question, and their lawfully appointed oversight. If you are ever in the Dallas, TX region of our country in 2014 we'd love to visit with you! And may the Lord continue to grow you and bless you in your pursuit of the ministry, brother.


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## Logan

Craig.Scott said:


> Apparently it's allowed to due exceptions, yet they vowed before God



Just a historical note and someone correct me if I'm wrong on this but my understanding is that the church also ran into problems with 100% subscription required, because clever men will always come up with "interpretations". This led to lots of confusion where men said they were 100% confessional but "interpreted" things differently and led to some serious doctrinal problems.

Thus, the church took the practice of requiring subscription but also requiring the stating any exceptions. This had the benefit of getting any disagreements out in the open. It was then up to the Presbytery or Synod to determine whether those exceptions were agreeable or not, for example, whether the Pope were "the" antichrist or "a" antichrist.

No system is perfect and there will always be sinful men in any denomination, but I believe that is the background to "exceptions" and only requiring subscription to the "system of doctrine". I don't believe 4th commandment issues or exclusive psalmody would be allowed exceptions in the denomination, were the issue brought up to presbytery or synod.


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## JML

I have yet to find a reformed denomination where discernment was not necessary in choosing a church to attend. I have interacted with some very solid men in the PCA, OPC, RPCGA, RPCNA, Reformed Baptists etc. whom I would gladly join with their assemblies were I seeking a congregation. At the same time, I have seen others in the same denominations that I would not. These denominations would need to be evaluated on a session by session basis. I am thankful that during my time in the RPCNA I was blessed to be a part of an imperfect but God-fearing church whose elders truly looked out for the souls of the people and sought godliness in their own lives. I have also seen some of the things mentioned by Craig amongst some in the RPCNA and truthfully if I had not been in the situation that I had in my congregation and interacted with some other pastors and congregants whom I greatly respect I probably would have a different view of the denomination. As it stands, I love the RPCNA and pray for more such congregations to be planted especially here in the Southeast. It would be great if the Great Lakes / Gulf Coast Presbytery would expand to the point where the slash could be removed and the two could stand alone.


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