# The Tongues of Angels



## Christopher (May 30, 2004)

1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal. ESV

Any thoughts on the tounges of angels? What do YOU think it is?


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## Christopher (May 30, 2004)

I was not thinking along the lines of the ecstatic speach stuff. Some of the commentators say it was the ability to speak very eloqintly (sp?). I was not sur that was right because Paul says that else where and does not call it the speach of angels. 

Here is another question to guess at:
What will language in Heaven be like? Any body ever chase rabbit trails into this area?


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## rembrandt (May 30, 2004)

Paul (Apostle) was saying that hypothetically, almost jokingly, mocking their misuse of God's gifts. Paul exagerates alot (teaching method), and it is very like him to use that sort of 'progressive overstatement'.

There are no tongues of angels that men can speak (yet).

Paul


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## Craig (May 30, 2004)

[quote:c49543f6e0]
I know some tounges speakers like to say that their utter is the language of [b:c49543f6e0]angles[/b:c49543f6e0]
[/quote:c49543f6e0]

Like a right angle? :bs2:

[Edited on 5-30-2004 by Craig]


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## 9:9 (May 30, 2004)

Heh, or a right angel.


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## Christopher (May 30, 2004)

[quote:e8d9c0dc1a][i:e8d9c0dc1a]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:e8d9c0dc1a]
To that I accept their definition but still say that angles speak rationally while you (tounge speaker) do not. [/quote:e8d9c0dc1a]

I am not sure Iunderstand this sentence. Let me see if I have got you right.
- You accept the definition that it is a loft form of human speach as the commentaries say.
- Angels speak rationally but the person speaking in the tounges does not?


Is that right?


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## Ianterrell (May 30, 2004)

Christopher,


Here Paul is being sarcastic. He shows that I may speak in French, German, Mandarin, or whatever. If I do not have love I am nothing. He is not speaking of an actual angelic tongue, but more so putting down the arrogance of the Corinthian in all of us. 

If you look at the context I think there are several clues that point to this. The hyperbolic language of speaking in an angels tongue, the hyperbolic language of discerning all the prophetic mysteries, and of having faith to move mountains, all seem to point to certain bit of sarcasm on Paul's part which is not uncommon in his writings.


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## rembrandt (May 30, 2004)

[quote:783b0b6285][i:783b0b6285]Originally posted by Ianterrell[/i:783b0b6285]
Christopher,


Here Paul is being sarcastic. He shows that I may speak in French, German, Mandarin, or whatever. If I do not I am nothing. He is not speaking of an actual angelic tongue, but more so putting down the arrogance of the Corinthian in all of us. 

If you look at the context I think there are several clues that point to this. The hyperbolic language of speaking in an angels tongue, the hyperbolic language of discerning all the prophetic mysteries, and of having faith to move mountains, all seem to point to certain bit of sarcasm on Paul's part which is not uncommon in his writings. [/quote:783b0b6285]

Yes. That is what I was trying to say as well.


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## Puritan Sailor (May 30, 2004)

[quote:5a5ad3596e][i:5a5ad3596e]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:5a5ad3596e]
[quote:5a5ad3596e][i:5a5ad3596e]Originally posted by Christopher[/i:5a5ad3596e]
[quote:5a5ad3596e][i:5a5ad3596e]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:5a5ad3596e]
To that I accept their definition but still say that angles speak rationally while you (tounge speaker) do not. [/quote:5a5ad3596e]

I am not sure Iunderstand this sentence. Let me see if I have got you right.
- You accept the definition that it is a loft form of human speach as the commentaries say.
- Angels speak rationally but the person speaking in the tounges does not?


Is that right? [/quote:5a5ad3596e]

No, I accept their definition for argument's sake. Many toungers will say that what they are doing by going shanannannanbebebebebeblolololologagagagagga is talking in AngEL language. I say o.k., if that's the case then why do you think angels would utter irrationalities?

Yes, angels speak rationally but tounge speakers utter nonsensical blabber.

-Paul [/quote:5a5ad3596e]
Paul, just to play the charasmatics advocate for a second, how do you know, if they are in fact speaking angelic language, that they are speaking irrational gibberish? It could sound perfectly rational to angels could it not? Do you know how to translate angelese to know if in fact it really is irrational speech?


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## mjbee (May 31, 2004)

&quot;For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God, for no one understands him; however, in the spirit he speaks mysteries....I wish you all spoke with tongues, but even more that you prophesied.....&quot; What am I to think of these verses? That Paul was being a smart aleck?


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## mjbee (May 31, 2004)

Why don't you tell me what &quot;mysteries&quot; refers to, Paul?


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## mjbee (May 31, 2004)

So if you're speaking in tongues, and you're speaking the gospel to God who caused you to believe it in the first place, what's the problem and why the ridicule here?


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## Puritan Sailor (May 31, 2004)

[quote:86990a601f][i:86990a601f]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:86990a601f]
Patrick,

Virtually every linguisist has studied tounges and found that it follows no rational structre.

This is what the linguistics community refers to as Glossolalia

Glossolalia comprises the utterance of what appears (to the casual listener) either as an unknown foreign language, or as simply nonsense syllables; the utterances sometimes occur as part of religious worship (religious glossolalia), and sometimes as a result of mental illness. These &quot;tounges&quot; episodes have no structure and are by all accounts &quot;baby talk.&quot; 

But if your interested study it for yourself...tis interesting

-Paul [/quote:86990a601f]
Paul, believe me I have studied this nonsense. I was raised in it. I'm readily familiar with all their arguments. The point I was trying to make is that we don't know what a heavenly tongue sounds like. All the linguists in the world can't tell us how angels speak. They can only analyze the languages of men. Whether or not we can detect rational structure or not is irrelevant since we are not angels and can't know. So when you confront people with this arguement, that is exactly what they will tell you, &quot;You don't know.&quot; Of course our reply should also be &quot;Well, neither do you.&quot;
I give the charasmatics no foothold when arguing them, not even for the sake of argument, because they already think irrationally in this area and to descend that way leads to baseless speculation and anecdotal evidence of little if any relevence. Call it presuppositional I guess 
When refuting them I go straight to their misinterpretations of the text and the Scriptural role of all those gifts, then compare to their own practice.


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## Puritan Sailor (May 31, 2004)

[quote:eb43bf3a11][i:eb43bf3a11]Originally posted by mjbee[/i:eb43bf3a11]
So if you're speaking in tongues, and you're speaking the gospel to God who caused you to believe it in the first place, what's the problem and why the ridicule here? [/quote:eb43bf3a11]
God doesn't need the gospel. We do. Paul was trying to make a point that when speaking in tongues, we speak mysteries that only God can understand because no one else can understand what is being said. This is not a good thing. It's a criticism. Paul's whole argument is that in order for tongues to be beneficial to the church in anyway they must be interpreted so we can here the mysteries they are speaking about. Otherwise it's pointless to speak at all.


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## New wine skin (May 31, 2004)

Also, angels always speak a human tongue ie.. that the intended audience can understand clearly what is being said. Ex. The burning bush, The Seriphim in Isiah, the angels warning Lot to leave Sodom/Gor or when the angels speaks to Mary. God is a God of order and is not going to have people speak in gibberish. 

The whole reason to even consider the question of angel tongues is its the only alternative other than a known lang that they can use to justfiy &quot;tongues&quot; for today. The holiness/pentecostal movement uses tongues as an outward &quot;sign&quot; of someone being &quot;spirit filled&quot;. It is easy to hide behind the mystery of angel tongues because no one speaks an angel tongue today... who can objectively tell them they are wrong? who can test us they say?? They throw this at me all the time. Some of my concerns are this being both be a stumbling block to a new believer who thinks they are not saved because they dont have that gift and also the self righteous attitude that they have an additional out pouring of the spirit to show their &quot;spirtuality&quot; which is no different from the pharisees or people who want their works to be known to others. I am not saying they are not born again, but what I am saying is they are in error. To me this is a heart issue (pride). Even Paul was aware of this when he said the greatest Gift was Love. How many pentecostal folks pray for that gift to manifest in their lives??? They rarely talk about it around me and I am surrounded by AoG and other Charismatics... It seems they want the supernatural gifts and play on the emotional highs of the religious experience. I am not saying they all do this but it is the norm around my town. 


As Dr Bahnsen said, what does the gift point to?? The Corithians got caught up in the gift itself. Paul rebuked them for that reason and warned of deception... You think your spirit filled, then do the things I told you! says Paul. Reminds me of John ch 8 when Jesus said if your sons of Abraham then do what Abraham does. 

I have no doubt some folks out there will take offense to my comments, but these things are personal experience not subjective speculation. For the record I have friends who are very charismatic and we disagree from time to time... Love is patient and kind and I encourage them to read the word and have an awarness of their &quot;theology&quot;. By God's grace many of my friends are begining to see through the lens of reformed thought.


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## Ianterrell (May 31, 2004)

Charismatics take the very book 1 Cor that should condemn their practices and us it as their bible for erroneous and empty mystical practices.


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