# Moving from grape juice to wine.



## Weston Stoler (Oct 19, 2011)

So when my pastor moved to Decatur, Alabama 2 years ago the lords supper consisted of some really nasty individual pizza crackers and grape juice. As soon as he got their he said this is what we are going to do, we are going to change the individual pizza crackers to loafs of bread and brake them before the congregation. That was the first thing he did. However he still has not made the move from grape juice to wine. We were the last dry county in Alabama (and I think in the united states) and just recently started selling alcohol on Sundays (after 12 AM lol) He says he is progressively trying to change the congregations out look on wine to a biblical perspective. What would your opinions be on how to handle this situation? Would you change it suddenly like the bread or gradually do it. Would you change it at all?


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## Tim (Oct 19, 2011)

How can you _gradually_ change grape juice into wine?


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 19, 2011)

Tim said:


> How can you _gradually_ change grape juice into wine?



By teaching them the biblical view of alcohol and showing them how the lord supper should be and how it is taught in the scriptures. About 1/4 people in my church are baptists and 3/4 baptists in my city believe alcohol is wrong.

and 87 percent of statistics are made up on the spot.

---------- Post added at 07:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:37 PM ----------

Also allowing two versions of the cup, wine and grape juice, until eventually fading out the grape juice.


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## py3ak (Oct 19, 2011)

Tim said:


> How can you _gradually_ change grape juice into wine?



By letting it sit at room temperature.


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## saintandsinner77 (Oct 19, 2011)

I would first provide the people with good, Biblical teaching on the proper use of wine in communion rather than just imposing it on them suddenly. I would explain how it was the practice of the early church and would gently and patiently answer the concerns of members and pray for them for their minds to be open...I think over time, if people really want to observe the Supper as the early church did in keeping with God's Word, they will gradually become more open to it... 

Unfortunately in many Reformed churches today, though we boast of our regulative principle, we really don't follow Scripture on the Lord's Supper- we don't do it regularly (weekly), we use little disposable cups, instead of the one cup mentioned in the NT, and we use grape juice instead of wine out of deference to the personal convictions and opinions of our teetotaling brethren, instead of charitably challenging them to conform their convictions to the plain teaching of Scripture...


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 19, 2011)

py3ak said:


> Tim said:
> 
> 
> > How can you _gradually_ change grape juice into wine?
> ...




You earned the first chuckle of the day. Heres your medal *places medal*


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## Jack K (Oct 19, 2011)

Take it slowly, carefully explaining what the reasons are and what they are not, doing one's best to avoid putting people in a spot where they feel they're caught between sinning and taking communion. This is the kind thing to do and is gentle pastoring.


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 19, 2011)

Jack K said:


> Take it slowly, carefully explaining what the reasons are and what they are not, doing one's best to avoid putting people in a spot where they feel they're caught between sinning and taking communion. This is the kind thing to do and is gentle pastoring.



Which is why I respect what my pastor is doing.


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## Romans922 (Oct 19, 2011)

The Pastor is not in charge, the session must be convinced, the session then needs to implement (first through teaching/preaching (preferably preaching) then through actually doing it).


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 19, 2011)

Is this pastor's intent known to the whole church?


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 19, 2011)

Not sure, have been going their for a while and asked him why they did not use wine in communion and he told me he was working towards it and that he spoke to the elders about it. They seemed to agree. Since he was willing to tell me I am sure it is something the church is aware of.


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 19, 2011)

Sure or not sure? I'm just asking in case this should not be in an open forum for the world to see.


Weston Stoler said:


> Not sure, have been going their for a while and asked him why they did not use wine in communion and he told me he was working towards it and that he spoke to the elders about it. They seemed to agree. Since he was willing to tell me I am sure it is something the church is aware of.


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## puritanpilgrim (Oct 19, 2011)

> Unfortunately in many Reformed churches today, though we boast of our regulative principle, we really don't follow Scripture on the Lord's Supper- we don't do it regularly (weekly), we use little disposable cups, instead of the one cup mentioned in the NT



Only using one common cup is part of the regulative principal?


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## au5t1n (Oct 20, 2011)

saintandsinner77 said:


> Unfortunately in many Reformed churches today, though we boast of our regulative principle, we really don't follow Scripture on the Lord's Supper- we don't do it regularly (weekly), we use little disposable cups, instead of the one cup mentioned in the NT, and we use grape juice instead of wine out of deference to the personal convictions and opinions of our teetotaling brethren, instead of charitably challenging them to conform their convictions to the plain teaching of Scripture...



One cup vs. many cups and frequency of celebration are circumstantial (though my church does celebrate as often as we have a minister, every two weeks). I do consider bread and wine to be the proper elements. But it's interesting to me that "we don't properly fence the Table" never makes it onto these lists, especially since the WCF states that it is a great sin against Christ to admit ignorant and ungodly persons to the table.


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 20, 2011)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Sure or not sure? I'm just asking in case this should not be in an open forum for the world to see.
> 
> 
> Weston Stoler said:
> ...



Yes, I just asked someone and it is something that is known to the congregation.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Oct 20, 2011)

I can asssure you that your county is NOT the last dry one in the United States.


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## moral necessity (Oct 20, 2011)

Weston Stoler said:


> He says he is progressively trying to change the congregations out look on wine to a biblical perspective. What would your opinions be on how to handle this situation? Would you change it suddenly like the bread or gradually do it. Would you change it at all?



Perhaps do as some churches do, and put the wine in cups in the center of the plate, and grape juice along the outside. Then, let them choose according to their conscience. Or, is the issue more that the congregation thinks alcohol is sinful to partake of?

Blessings!


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## Andres (Oct 20, 2011)

Weston Stoler said:


> About 1/4 people in my church are baptists



Are we talking about the PCA church you're attending? What do you mean by this? Are you refering to their conviction on baptism or are you saying that they still hold membership at a baptist church? 

I think the first step in getting the congregation to accept wine for the Lord's Supper is to teach them the biblical position on alcohol. Once they come to understand alcohol is not inherently evil (as many evangelicals believe), then I don't see why they wouldn't be open to having wine for the Lord's Supper.


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