# Does the universe have a purpose?



## kappazei (Dec 2, 2012)

Apparently, the John Templeton Foundation is sponsoring a series of conversations about the “Big Questions” . They are asking responses from among leading scientists and scholars. Among them, Nancy Murphy of Fuller and Jane Goodall.

John Templeton Foundation : Does the Universe Have a Purpose?


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## rbcbob (Dec 2, 2012)

The short answer is yes.

11 "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power; For You created all things, And by Your will they exist and were created." (Rev 4:11 NKJ)

WCF 2.1 There is but one only living and true God, who is infinite in being and perfection, a most pure spirit, invisible, without body, parts, or passions; immutable, immense, eternal, incomprehensible, almighty, most wise, most holy, most free, most absolute, working all things according to the counsel of His own immutable and most righteous will, for His own glory; most loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, abundant in goodness and truth, forgiving iniquity, transgression, and sin, the rewarder of them that diligently seek Him; and withal, most just, and terrible in His judgments; hating all sin, and who will by no means clear the guilty. (WCF 2:1 WCS)


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## OPC'n (Dec 2, 2012)

What is the chief end of man?
Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever

Applies to the whole of the universe.


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## Poimen (Dec 2, 2012)

Hebrews 1:1-3 "God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets, has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high"

Two matters re: the universe's purpose are evident from this text: 1) to be the servant of Christ ("heir of all things") & 2) to be a testimony of His creative and sustaining power ("through whom also He made the worlds" & "upholding all things by the word of His power").


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## Peairtach (Dec 2, 2012)

If the universe doesn't have a purpose then neither does this conversation, or any of our thoughts, words or actions.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Dec 2, 2012)

The universe is made for God's glory:

The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork (Psalm 19:1)

His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise (Habakkuk 3:3)


And within the universe, humankind is made for the praise of the glory of His grace:

According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: 
Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will, To the praise 
of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved. (Ephesians 1:4-6)


The universe and all in it is made for God's pleasure:

Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created. (Revelation 4:11)


The universe is made to be a home for the children of God, the Bride of His Son:

Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. 
And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. 
And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. (Revelation 19:7-9)

And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 
And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, 
and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, 
neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. And he that sat upon the throne said, 
Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. (Revelation 21:2-5)



God takes great pleasure in His children, and Christ in His bride, and they will rejoice in His glory for ever and ever, world without end.
And they lived happily ever after.


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## MW (Dec 2, 2012)

Does the universe have a purpose? You will have to ask the universe to find out. 

Obviously Christians translate the question to mean, Does God have a purpose for the universe? But the fact is, remove theism from the conversation, and the question presupposes an innate mind in the universe, which is the kind of unproven assumption found in the thinking of most materialistic atheists.


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## rbcbob (Dec 2, 2012)

From the article cited in the OP:



> Of course, nothing would stop science from uncovering positive evidence of divine guidance and purpose if it were attainable. For example, tomorrow night if we look up at the stars and they have been rearranged into a pattern that reads, “I am here,” I think even the most hard-nosed scientific skeptic would suspect something was up.
> 
> But no such unambiguous signs have been uncovered among the millions and millions of pieces of data we have gleaned about the natural world over centuries of exploration. And this is precisely why a scientist can conclude that it is very unlikely that there is any divine purpose. If a creator had such a purpose, she could choose to demonstrate it a little more clearly to the inhabitants of her creation.
> 
> ...



This brings to mind the words of Paul in Romans




> 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who suppress the truth in unrighteousness,
> 19 because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for God has shown it to them.
> 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even His eternal power and Godhead, so that they are without excuse,
> 21 because, although they knew God, they did not glorify Him as God, nor were thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts were darkened. (Rom 1:18-21 NKJ)



How do we dialog with such unbelieving intellectuals?


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## bookslover (Dec 2, 2012)

The purpose of the universe is to bring God glory. Duh. And I'm not even a professional philosopher...


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## Randy in Tulsa (Dec 2, 2012)

In addition to, or, as part of, the "for his glory" ultimate answer, there is a long, redemptive purpose at work in the world as we know it. I don't know how far this extends to the "universe," because I don't know how much of it is fallen. Heaven isn't fallen. Many of the angels are not fallen. How far did the curse of Adam's sin extend? While the answer to this question wouldn't negate or even affect the truth that all things exist for God's glory, the answer might impact the scope of God's redemptive purpose in the universe.


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## kappazei (Dec 2, 2012)

bookslover said:


> Duh. And I'm not even a professional philosopher...



Love that!


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## kodos (Dec 2, 2012)

If the stars did arrange themselves they'd immediately seek out a naturalistic explanation to suppress the truth anyhow. 

They are going to tell God what the burden of proof is, rather than accept the level of proof that he deems adequate (their consciences, being made in God's image, the heavens declaring the glory of God, and most of all the Word of God).

Luke 16:31 - He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’


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## jwright82 (Dec 7, 2012)

I think the issue is best settled by pointing out that for the Christian the purpose of creation is located in the creator, not in creation. For us the purpose of creation is located in God, his glory as have already been pointed out, not in some essence or anything located in creation somewhere. The creator is self existent not creation.


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## FenderPriest (Dec 7, 2012)

Only a culture with roots in a Christian worldview could have produced that question. Only a man refusing to acknowledge God and give him praise could have produced that answer.


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## kappazei (Dec 7, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> If the universe doesn't have a purpose then neither does this conversation, or any of our thoughts, words or actions.



hi Richard; Hope you didn't mind but I went back to the youtube site where I originally found out about this and posted your quote. No one's come up with a rebuttal as of yet.


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## SolaSaint (Dec 7, 2012)

Ask Rick Warren, he knows. LOL


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## kappazei (Dec 8, 2012)

SolaSaint said:


> Ask Rick Warren, he knows. LOL



It's like the old Nike commercial, Rick Knows. Bo probably doesn't


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## ReformedChristian (Dec 10, 2012)

In an Atheistic/Naturalist worldview there is no purpose it is what it is nature will take its course until the final end the universe dies and wears down and plunges into cold and heat death and the perishing of humanity do to these elements. As Richard Dawkins says in his book The Blind Watchmaker he states quote “

In a universe of blind physical forces and genetic replication, some people are going to get hurt, other people are going to get lucky, and you won’t find any rhyme or reason in it, nor any justice. The universe we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is at bottom, no design, no purpose, no evil and no good, nothing but blind pitiless indifference.” p.133. 

well if that is the case even in a universe created by the byproduct of evolution the idea of survival and reproduction is useless according to people like Dawkins and of course Bertrand Russell who states quote:

"Man is the product of causes which had no prevision of the end they were achieving; . . . that no fire, no heroism, no intensity of thought and feeling, can preserve an individual life beyond the grave; that all the labours of the ages, all the devotion, all the inspiration, all the noonday brightness of human genius, are destined to extinction in the vast death of the solar system, and that the whole temple of Man’s achievement must inevitably be buried beneath the debris of a universe in ruins--all these things, if not quite beyond dispute, are yet so nearly certain, that no philosophy which rejects them can hope to stand. Only within the scaffolding of these truths, only on the firm foundation of unyielding despair, can the soul’s habitation henceforth be safely built ("A Free Man’s Worship,” in The Basic Writings of Bertrand Russell, eds., Robert E. Egner and Lester E. Denonn. p. 67" 

In contrast to the biblical view the purpose in creation is to glorify God Hebrews 1, Colossians 1:16 but man has suppressed it and seeks to make their own standards Romans 1:21-27 Romans 3:11-18 10:3.


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## Afterthought (Dec 10, 2012)

armourbearer said:


> Obviously Christians translate the question to mean, Does God have a purpose for the universe? But the fact is, remove theism from the conversation, and the question presupposes an innate mind in the universe, which is the kind of unproven assumption found in the thinking of most materialistic atheists.


Interesting. A philosopher whose metaphysics I had to read from this past semester (Charles Peirce) argued for the "driving force" behind evolution not being something merely impersonal like a materialist might posit, but rather an agape type of love. Granted, he was no materialist (he was an objective idealist monist), but your statement above reminded me of that. No doubt, some other philosopher--perhaps a famous one (I haven't read that many, after all!)--probably does something similarly and explicitly for a more materialistic universe.


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## jwright82 (Dec 13, 2012)

Afterthought said:


> armourbearer said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously Christians translate the question to mean, Does God have a purpose for the universe? But the fact is, remove theism from the conversation, and the question presupposes an innate mind in the universe, which is the kind of unproven assumption found in the thinking of most materialistic atheists.
> ...



Well keep in mind that most Pragmatists, of which Peirce was the founding father, were basically pantheists. Read William James on this. Be careful, not that Peirce is not useful, of how far you align yourself with pagan thinkers because you may incorporate unbiblical ideas into your thinking. I have benefited very much from philosophers in my time but I always keep their ideas in line with scripture. I am happy that you are finding such pleasure in philosophy it is a neglected field among Christians. Keep up the studies. 

What may be wrong with such ideas is not that agape love is behind the driving force of anything only that what is the source of it all? For Peirce it was something inside the universe, or creation, that was ultimate and self existent. For us it is the creator who is self existent not creation.


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## jandrusk (Dec 13, 2012)

If the purpose of the universe is not to glorify God and enjoy him forever, then we are all just matter caught in time.


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## Afterthought (Dec 13, 2012)

jwright82 said:


> Well keep in mind that most Pragmatists, of which Peirce was the founding father, were basically pantheists. Read William James on this. Be careful, not that Peirce is not useful, of how far you align yourself with pagan thinkers because you may incorporate unbiblical ideas into your thinking. I have benefited very much from philosophers in my time but I always keep their ideas in line with scripture. I am happy that you are finding such pleasure in philosophy it is a neglected field among Christians. Keep up the studies.
> 
> What may be wrong with such ideas is not that agape love is behind the driving force of anything only that what is the source of it all? For Peirce it was something inside the universe, or creation, that was ultimate and self existent. For us it is the creator who is self existent not creation.


Thank you for your concern and the encouragement! I too am very concerned about allowing unbelievers to dictate my thought. One thing that greatly bothers me is how it seems like many of the more brilliant and more well-studied Christians in philosophy tend to stray off the path of orthodoxy--and often because of some unbiblical philosophical idea they have that they continue to carry through consistently--and so one cannot recommend them whole-heartedly like one would desire. One would wish that such a Christian would be thoroughly orthodox, catholic, Reformed, and conservative, while keeping up that Christian piety and fear of God that all Christians should have. (Thankfully, there are such Christians! There are some on the PB.  )

To clarify, in my post, I was by no means recommending his very darkened thought (which on occasion explicitly uttered blasphemies and mocked traditional Christianity; most especially in the essay where he defends the agapaism that I mentioned above), only giving it as an example I had encountered personally that had some similarities to Rev. Winzer's observation. I have no desire to align my thought with the philosophy of any unbeliever or syncretize such philosophy with Christianity, but rather prefer to align it with the philosophy of those who start from Christian principles (e.g., Dabney, Van Til), and even then, only insofar as I can see it as bringing no harm to Scripture or the Reformed faith; and even then, only accepting such thought provisionally until I am absolutely certain it is safe to do so after having thought through it and checking its possible consequences. Only insofar as unbelieving thought coincides with the above, will I acknowledge it be true, though by then, such acknowledgment can hardly be said to be an "alignment" to or "syncretization" of or even an "appropriation" of their thought. If ever I do "appropriate" some thought of an unbeliever, it is only very carefully and usually in such things where their darkness does not cast such a shadow over their thought that it cannot be used or rederived from Christian principles anyway (e.g., in scientific method, mathematics, logic, and even some stuff in psychology and language, though all must be kept within their proper bounds of what they're able to do, claim, or prove).

As for your comments with respect to his ideas themselves, I'm not sure it is fair to lump him in with the other pragmatists, given how different his thought was from them and given his own profession of doing something different from them, though it is certainly fair to view him as their founding father of sorts. And I'm not sure whether he was a pantheist or not; his religious views (if he had any) confuse me, since he'll blaspheme and praise Christianity on various occasions, though his philosophy is hardly Christian. Nevertheless, I think your last comment is spot on for sure! And if that's all you meant by "pantheism", it certainly seems likely, from what I understand. After reading such darkened philosophy, I am often reminded of the supremacy and sufficiency of Christ. In Colossians, for example.... "In whom are hid all the treasures of wisdom and knowledge" "by him were all things created" "all things were created by him, and for him" "he is before all things, and by him all things consist" "Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature"

And of course, reading of God the Father, "Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins" puts to shame any sort of "agapaism" when compared with the love of our personal God (whose tender mercies are over all his works) found in Christ.


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## kappazei (Dec 13, 2012)

Herald said:


> Why did God create Polaris and place it where it is in the universe? Anyone who has navigated by the stars knows the reason.



Never thought about that one! Thanks.


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## BobVigneault (Dec 14, 2012)

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"
Shakespeare


"All the world's indeed a stage
And we are merely players
Performers and portrayers"
Rush

"The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge."
God


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## BobVigneault (Dec 14, 2012)

"All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players"
Shakespeare


"All the world's indeed a stage
And we are merely players
Performers and portrayers"
Rush

"The heavens declare the glory of God,
and the sky above proclaims his handiwork.
Day to day pours out speech,
and night to night reveals knowledge."
God


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## Mushroom (Dec 14, 2012)

kappazei said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > Why did God create Polaris and place it where it is in the universe? Anyone who has navigated by the stars knows the reason.
> ...


Yeah, but what you don't realize is that Obi Wan Billobi means 'by' as in nearby, rather than 'by' as in through the use of, Polaris. He is _such_ a Star Wars geek...


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