# Hebrews 12:17



## Mephibosheth (Nov 2, 2016)

Hi Guys,

So this isn't a so much a question about the Doctrines of Grace, but obviously Soteriology deals with Repentance. Obviously, I'm a Calvinist, I just don't know how to interpret/reconcile this verse. Feel free to move this thread elsewhere, if it's not in the right place. This is in regards to Esau.

In the ESV, Hebrews 12:17 reads:

"For you know that afterward, when he desired to inherit the blessing, he was rejected, for he found no chance to repent, though he sought* it *with tears."

But in other, less literal translations, we get a rendering like this:

"Afterward, as you know, when he wanted to inherit this blessing, he was rejected. Even though he sought *the blessing* with tears, he could not change what he had done." (NIV)

Ok. I'm aware that some Reformed teachers consider the "it" that Esau sought with tears was repentance. Thus by making this Old Testament allusion in Hebrews, that this would indicate that a reprobate person could in this life seek to repent, but be hardened by God so they couldn't.

Others teach that the meaning of this verse is more in line with the second translation: that the "it" Esau sought was the blessing, because it fits the actual Old Testament account where he begged and cried loudly. And they claim that use of "_metanoia_" could refer to changing Isaac's mind in regards to giving a blessing, not referring to a change of mind/repentance for Esau. 

So, I have a few questions:

1) If the first interpretation is correct, and that Esau (generally thought by Calvinists to be non-Elect) was literally seeking repentance with tears/being used as an example of reprobates, how can we reconcile that with the truth that no one comes to the Christ unless the Father draws him? A reprobate would never (and could never) actually _want_ to repent. Some Calvinists say this refers to the unregenerate heart being hardened by God. If the heart is hardened, it wouldn't seek repentance, much less with tears...

2) John Piper claims that if you blaspheme the Holy Spirit, you've become an Esau, per this verse. Which fits with his interpretation, but how would you reconcile that with Irresistible Grace? The Holy Spirit draws you to repentance. If you're not Elect, and you've blasphemed the Holy Spirit, why would He draw you to seek repentance tearfully?

3) Given that, isn't the second translation, which renders the "it" sought by Esau as the blessing and not repentance the more likely meaning?


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## Parakaleo (Nov 2, 2016)

Two quick responses.



> 2 Cor. 7 (KJV) - 9 Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry aftera a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing. 10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.



Esau's sorrow was carnal. It was what the Puritans called "counterfeit repentance". Feeling sorry and shedding tears does not equal repentance. Real repentance is "unto life", which means "unto fruit". Love for God and good works. This is what John the Baptist preached to the Pharisees and Sadducees.



> Heb. 12:17 (KJV) For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.



This is a faithful translation. Notice that the ESV omits the word "place", which is clearly in the Greek, and uses the word "chance", which obfuscates the meaning. The literal translation is "he was rejected from finding the place of repentance, though he sought it with tears". Think on that. He didn't even come close to real repentance, because worldly sorrow only produces death.


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## KeithW (Nov 2, 2016)

KJV said:


> Heb. 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he *sought *it carefully with tears.


Esau desired and "sought" something. And he also sought this thing in a certain manner, "with tears". It is far more likely that "it" refers to what he sought, "he sought it" (KJV), and not the manner in which he sought it.

Since this refers to an Old Testament event in Gen. 27:31-41 it would be helpful to read it and understand what is being said. Here are two places which give context.



KJV said:


> Gen. 27:34 And when Esau heard the words of his father, he cried with a great and exceeding bitter cry, and said unto his father, Bless me, even me also, O my father.


What was he crying for and asking for? What is the it? The blessing.



KJV said:


> Gen. 27:36-38 And he said, Is not he rightly named Jacob? for he hath supplanted me these two times: he took away my birthright; and, behold, now he hath taken away my blessing. And he said, Hast thou not reserved a blessing for me? And Isaac answered and said unto Esau, Behold, I have made him thy lord, and all his brethren have I given to him for servants; and with corn and wine have I sustained him: and what shall I do now unto thee, my son? And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.


There was only one blessing that Isaac could give (of that kind). Once Isaac gave that blessing no amount of Esau crying and seeking after that same blessing could undo what was already given.

Of course this is just an opinion of a layman.


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## Mephibosheth (Nov 2, 2016)

Pastor Law,

So in your opinion, when this Old Testament allusion is applied in the context of Hebrews and the Church, would this verse indicate that an apostate (and yes, I know they were never true Christians) might eventually feel regret before death, but not be granted true repentance?


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## Mephibosheth (Nov 2, 2016)

Keith, I think I agree with you. Also, the "it" being repentance doesn't seem to fit with the idea of true repentance being granted by God alone. I understand what Pastor Law said about Esau having false repentance. But would an apostate ever wish to repent at all, even just fear of Hell? I don't know...


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 3, 2016)

The WCF reminds us, ch.15:1, "Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace...." Repentance unto life is something that is _given,_ not something that men produce naturally. 

Act.11:18, "When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, 'Then hath God also to the Gentiles *granted *repentance unto life.'"

Repentance is turning from sin to God. Heb.11:6, "But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him."

It is simply false to read of Esau's tears, and assume that they are an indication that he sought for God. Esau saw value in that blessing he understood was his father's possession; and which (per Ger.27:4) he expected his doting father to bequeath to him. Esau could only have a vague awareness of the reality of this blessing, since he was dead to spiritual things; but still, that was enough to stir up in him a carnal desire for it.

Many people today obtain some sense of the desirability of heaven and eternal life; correlatively, they may have apprehension of hell on their minds. But their hope of heaven is simply to find themselves there, having some kind of pleasant reboot on life (and avoiding the unpleasantness of hell). But the joy of heaven is GOD. Heaven is _where God is._ Ps.73:25 "Whom [or what] have I in heaven but thee? and there is none [nothing] upon earth that I desire beside thee."*

For Esau, the way to obtaining the blessing from his father--the evidence of which was seen in Isaac's prosperity--was purely by having his father's favor. He had that favor as the firstborn, and he seemed not to have done ill sufficient to fall from that favor in his father's eyes. And in his final assignment of the hunt, he sought this Spiritual blessing by carnal means. Note: he did not seek the God of the blessing; but the blessing itself, mainly the signs and tokens of prosperity. Jacob might take his inheritance (which was the whole thing, by the way; he did not _trade_ his 1/3 for his brother's 2/3; but got the 2/3 for a bowl of soup) and Esau did not care; the real plum was the blessing.

Let the reader understand: Jacob _also_ sought this Spiritual blessing by carnal means. As God's elect son, he surely was blessed (v33); and yet he had a very serious lesson to learn. God would not allow him to enjoy the Spiritual benefit which he had lied and connived to obtain, until he had been chastised and humbled, until he repented. Jacob was put through an Exile. He was sent away with nothing but the staff in his hand. He was helped along by divine Providence; but was placed under a devious and harsh taskmaster in Laban.

Jacob learned to trust God, and to see his prosperity (as Abraham and Isaac learned) as God's gift, in spite of his sin and unworthiness. "I am not worthy of the least of your tender mercies," Gen.32:10. Laban, the idolater, viewed Jacob as his vassal; by controlling him he would also control Jacob's "genie," this god-of-blessing. And so it seemed to turn out for 20yrs or so. But in the end, neither could he have the elect one's Spiritual blessings using carnal manipulation.

Heb.12:17 does indicate that the thing sought was the blessing (feminine personal pronoun accusative "it," referring back to ευλογιαν, feminine noun "blessing." The Greek is not so very ambiguous at all (though μετανοιας "repentance" is also feminine, it is a genitive modifier of τοπον "place," and hardly the best antecedent candidate).

It is not the point of this text, but repentance and the place thereof may be earnestly desired by those reprobate who come late to the bitter realization that they pound the door of heaven in vain, and cannot enter. No such grace and mercy is available to them. Theirs simply is a wish for God to acknowledge whatever they have scraped together of themselves that seems sorrowful, and to call it "repentance." But God never gave it, so he does not recognize it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Mephibosheth (Nov 3, 2016)

Wow, that was extremely helpful! Thank you.


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## KeithW (Nov 3, 2016)

(I considered it more from a layman's perspective...)

The underlying Greek word here for repentance includes the idea of changing one's mind. If this is correct then whose mind was Esau seeking to change? His own? No, he wanted Isaac to change his mind. Esau was not seeking to change his own mind, he wasn't even home when Isaac gave the blessing to Jacob. Esau wanted Isaac to change his mind and give the blessing to Esau instead. Esau was rejected and found no place of repentance inside of Isaac.

So while we see the word "repentance" here we need to consider first how it is used in context both in this verse and in the Old Testament story before looking elsewhere and bringing in other meanings. (By the way, sometimes this rule works and other times you really do have to look at how a word is used everywhere else.)


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