# Do archaic translations keep sects in the dark?



## Von (Jul 25, 2018)

The Latin Bible during the reign of the Catholic church kept people in the dark.
The JW's have their own bible (John 1 just proved too difficult to circumvent!)
But this thread concerns those sects/dodgy fringe groups that do not have their own version of the bible:

Do they use older translations that are harder to read (KJV, etc).
If so, do these translations keep people in the dark?


----------



## earl40 (Jul 25, 2018)

Von said:


> The Latin Bible during the reign of the Catholic church kept people in the dark.
> The JW's have their own bible (John 1 just proved too difficult to circumvent!)
> But this thread concerns those sects/dodgy fringe groups that do not have their own version of the bible:
> 
> ...



Did God keep His people in the dark who had no access to scripture other than hearing The Word preached?


----------



## Von (Jul 25, 2018)

earl40 said:


> Did God keep His people in the dark who had no access to scripture other than hearing The Word preached?


But the preaching in this instance is unsound. Unsound exegesis from a text that people find hard to understand. In the end they have to trust more in what is being preached instead of seeing for themselves if it is so.


----------



## earl40 (Jul 25, 2018)

Von said:


> But the preaching in this instance is unsound. Unsound exegesis from a text that people find hard to understand. In the end they have to trust more in what is being preached instead of seeing for themselves if it is so.



I agree they had to trust the preacher more than us, but it goes without saying that Our Lord took care of His sheep through preaching through most of church history (OT and NT). Let us face it back in the day of Latin Masses, and before the printing press, Our Lord used preachers almost exclusively. in my opinion this is still the primary way God works today, and He leads His sheep top sound preaching. So far as "translations that are harder to read (KJV, etc)" I know this is debatable in that I have seen translations that are easier to read (NIV ESV) not as good as the KJV. We should remember God preserves His Word be it through preaching or good translations of scripture.


----------



## Von (Jul 25, 2018)

earl40 said:


> in my opinion this is still the primary way God works today, and He leads His sheep top sound preaching.


OK, I'm starting to agree with you, but I've one more argument:
Do you consider that people will one day be held accountable for the unbelief of others? We see in Matthew 23v14 that Jesus accused the Pharisees of making people worse of than they started out and shutting the kingdom in their faces. Now one could argue that this is through their preaching. What about other actions in addition to preaching (stumbling blocks, eg Matt 18v6 )?


----------



## earl40 (Jul 25, 2018)

Von said:


> OK, I'm starting to agree with you, but I've one more argument:
> Do you consider that people will one day be held accountable for the unbelief of others?



Pastors will be held accountable for what they preach and teach, and those who fall under a false Gospel shall be held accountable for seeking the ticklers of the ear. So far as being held accountable....any sin is ascribed to the particular sinner who commits such, though the effects of others sin has far reaching ramifications.




Von said:


> We see in Matthew 23v14 that Jesus accused the Pharisees of making people worse of than they started out and shutting the kingdom in their faces. Now one could argue that this is through their preaching. What about other actions in addition to preaching (stumbling blocks, eg Matt 18v6 )?



Of course the Pharisees who Jesus was talking were preaching a God that Moses did not know. In Matthew 18 Jesus is specifically speaking of false preachers being the stumbling block which shows how Our Lord works via preaching.


----------



## Von (Jul 25, 2018)

OK. I concede.


----------



## Afterthought (Jul 25, 2018)

JW's are blinded by their system, which they adhere to because of their blinded hearts. Bring them to any text that as plain as day refutes their position (e.g., that whosoever believes has eternal life), and they will automatically filter it through their system ("Oh, that's talking about paradise earth." Or "Oh, that's talking about the anointed."). Even if you point out exegetical inconsistencies, ("has" is in the present even though we do not live on paradise earth right now, and only "belief" is necessary to obtain it), they will insist again ("Oh, that's talking about paradise earth." Or "Oh, that's talking about the anointed."). Or if you back them into a corner, "Let me find someone more learned to talk with you."

This is, of course, only the case if the Lord does not work on their hearts to show them the truth.


----------



## Dachaser (Jul 25, 2018)

Von said:


> The Latin Bible during the reign of the Catholic church kept people in the dark.
> The JW's have their own bible (John 1 just proved too difficult to circumvent!)
> But this thread concerns those sects/dodgy fringe groups that do not have their own version of the bible:
> 
> ...


The Watchtower Bible totally distorts the scriptures, as they alter the text to support their heresies. it is also true that the Cults such JW and Mormons only would denate with you from the KJV itself, as they see it as being the only English version that is right ewnough to be used, but would still be seen inferior to their own translations.
Using the KJV itself would not be the cause of their biblical ignorance and spiritual blindess, as that is the direct result of them still being lost and walking in darkness.


----------



## yeutter (Jul 26, 2018)

The Latter Day Saints have their own translation. Likewise the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, which now call themselves Community of Christ, have their own translation which includes all of their later revelations.

The JW Watchtower cult once used the 1901 ASV, before they had their own translation. I always use the 1901 American Standard Verson, when I am talking with a JW.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## jwithnell (Jul 29, 2018)

It's a distortion to think the medieval church was hampered by the Latin translation -- a scholar with a solid education did not read the scriptures, much less an illiterate layman. The church's tradition, councils, etc. formed the basis for education and teaching. "Discovering" and studying the Bible itself led to the late-medieval dissenters and the Reformation.


----------



## TylerRay (Jul 29, 2018)

yeutter said:


> The JW Watchtower cult once used the 1901 ASV, before they had their own translation. I always use the 1901 American Standard Verson, when I am talking with a JW.


I love my JW "bible." The reason is that it was accidentally bound upside down! It's deliciously ironic.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## Florida Reforming (Aug 16, 2018)

As for the Clementine Vulgate: From the time of its production up to the time of the Reformation Latin was the language known by all literate people in western Europe. In fact the major early Lutheran and Reformed writings were available in Latin as well as in the vernacular languages, which were just then becoming standardized and made vehicles for literary output.

Cults use whatever they choose. They will disregard biblical teaching whether they hold the KJB, ASV, RSV, NASB, NIV, ESV, HCSB or any other Bible. 

I have met people with elementary education who better understand the KJB than many theologians understand any version in any language, all because they have regenerate believing hearts.


----------

