# Knock-offs



## Heath (Sep 18, 2013)

I wanted to get an idea of some biblical ways of looking at the idea of knock-off/copied products.

I have a particular case I will mention but I am thinking through it on a broader scale. Also, for the sake of the discussion I am taking off the table whether one's conscience would be moved in one way or the other. I don't do this because I think this can be completely decided in a vacuum but I do think it would be helpful to look at the specific issue at the root level.

Ok, my example. I like fountain pens. There are some legitimate, although low end foreign companies that make fountain pens that closely resemble other popular pens. One example is the Jinhaou 159 that looks very similar to a Montblanc 149. It has no copied logos and isn't being marketed as a knock-off. At the same time, another example, Hero makes a blatant rip off of a Lamy Safari that is marketed as such.

I have not bought, nor do I have a desire to buy anything in the second camp but the first example hasn't bothered me. 

In these examples I am not certain of copyright issues between the countries so I have no way of knowing the legality of the designs, particularly in the second example where it would seem more strait forward.

What are your thoughts? 



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## SRoper (Sep 18, 2013)

It's pretty clear that copying another's trademark or otherwise presenting your product as someone else's is a violation of the ninth commandment. Outside this there may be patent or possibly copyright issues which, as man-made regulation not required by biblical or natural law, are violations of the fifth commandment. I think it is pretty difficult for us laymen to identify the latter in a physical object like a pen. About the best we can do is purchase from a reputable merchant in a country with respect for rule of law.


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## Heath (Sep 18, 2013)

SRoper said:


> It's pretty clear that copying another's trademark or otherwise presenting your product as someone else's is a violation of the ninth commandment.



I completely agree there. 

It seems to me though that as a designer of a pen you would indeed look at what people like, as in the design of another popular pen, and attempt to emulate it to some degree (The first example). Is there any biblical mandate or even whisper that we are to always strive to not only create well made goods but also be unique? I guess this is my particular place of interest. What would be a biblical way of looking at the idea of copying to a degree another product if it is not identical and not marketed as such? 

In the US there seems to be much misunderstanding of the laws around this. On one hand someone who makes a nearly duplicate product and even calls it by a similar name is likely to have issues but on the other hand if someone makes a stick with a ball on the end they might claim ownership of making sticks with balls on the end. 

I honestly don't know in some of these cases whether it is a 9th or 8th commandment issue or simply an issue of looking at what works and repeating it. Is that always stealing?

Another example, I own a service business. When I started I looked at the forms used by many other similar companies and then made a form that worked for me. It likely greatly resembles several of them. Would that be a similar issue?

I'm not trying to make this a bigger issue that it is but I am interested in thinking about it out loud and seeing what you all think.


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## Pergamum (Sep 18, 2013)

I remember almost mistakenly buying a SQNY electrical appliance my first week living in Asia. They weren't technically lying...I suppose. They had a slightly different name and logo.


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## Tim (Sep 18, 2013)

I once saw a guy with an Addidas (not Adidas) jacket with 4 stripes (not 3).


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## Rich Koster (Sep 19, 2013)

I guess they ADDID A Stripe ;)


Tim said:


> I once saw a guy with an Addidas (not Adidas) jacket with 4 stripes (not 3).


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## Free Christian (Sep 21, 2013)

Copying these days is rampant. The Chinese are copying everything from old valuable coins, coin collectors beware some are really hard to pick, to, well just about anything. There is a huge gold rush in Africa, and I mean huge with the discovery of large shallow deposits where metal detectors are picking up nuggets worth a fortune, some over 1000 ounces in weight. The top end machines which sell for around $5000 US are being copied but only contain the inner workings of much lesser ability $200 machines. Ebay is loaded with rip off's from China. They Addid A Stripe


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