# Sproul: Regeneration precedes faith?



## Javilo (Dec 1, 2008)

RC Sproul states that regeneration precedes faith. But this is confusing
to me because if one equates regeneration with repentance, why would
anyone want to repent unless they had faith? So then regeneration
(repentance) before faith seems backwards to me. So is Sproul wrong?


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## MrMerlin777 (Dec 1, 2008)

Regeration and Repentance are two different things.

One cannot repent unless first one is brought to spiritual life from spirtual death.


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 1, 2008)

Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. It's regeneration first, then faith/repentance. See Westminster Shorter Catechism QA 85-87.


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 1, 2008)




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## Matthias (Dec 1, 2008)

If somebody could give a more detailed explanation of this, with references, I would really appreciate it! I was discussing this just the other day....


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## Scott1 (Dec 1, 2008)

God regenerates a sinner which immediately produces faith. Both are gifts of God, done completely by God, with man being 100% dependent on God for them:



> "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourself, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast."
> 
> Ephesians 2:8-9



Repentance is not exactly the same thing as (saving) faith. Repentance is a fruit of (saving) faith.



> Westminster Confession of Faith
> 
> Chapter XV
> Of Repentance unto Life
> ...



The Scripture proof texts provide a solid biblical basis for this summary of doctrine.


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## Calvibaptist (Dec 1, 2008)

Regeneration is a monergistic act of God on a dead sinner to give him spiritual life. John 3 describes regeneration in this way:



> The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.



Repentance and faith are actions of man (that are given by God) that a now-alive sinner does in response to the gospel.


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## Javilo (Dec 1, 2008)

jaybird0827 said:


> Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. It's regeneration first, then faith/repentance. See Westminster Shorter Catechism QA 85-87.



So then it is correct to say that faith includes repentance?
If so I still don't get the regeneration part.


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## Calvibaptist (Dec 1, 2008)

Javilo said:


> jaybird0827 said:
> 
> 
> > Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. It's regeneration first, then faith/repentance. See Westminster Shorter Catechism QA 85-87.
> ...



Faith does not include repentance. The call of the gospel is to repent and believe. Repentance is turning from sin; faith is turning to God.


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## Scott1 (Dec 1, 2008)

I think it is more correct to say regeneration occurs first and then immediately produces (saving) faith, which is faith in Christ's righteousness _alone_. As stated above both are unearned, unmerited gifts of God- something only God can give.

The saving faith allows resting in that faith alone for salvation (Christ's righteousness), which is the instrument for salvation.

Repentance itself does not justify us, nor can it really be rested in because as sinners, it will not be 100% perfect and continuing, it is a fruit (evangelical grace) that flows from the saving faith and the changed nature God did for us. But repentance, as the Confession quoted above, cannot be rested in (but saving faith is rested in).

[Dr Sproul (and the Reformers) are right in summarizing Scripture on this]


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## fredtgreco (Dec 1, 2008)

Regeneration is the bring to life that which was dead. It is God breathing life into dry bones, awakening a dead sinner.

Repentance and faith are twins - two sides of the same coin, as Jay has said. It is probably helpful to think of repentance/faith having the same kind of relationship as justification/adoption. Distinct, yet inseparable.


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## Ivan (Dec 1, 2008)

Javilo said:


> jaybird0827 said:
> 
> 
> > Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. It's regeneration first, then faith/repentance. See Westminster Shorter Catechism QA 85-87.
> ...



Regeneration is the giving of life by God so one can repent and believe. Can a dead man walk? Can a spiritually dead person repent and believe?


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## toddpedlar (Dec 1, 2008)

Javilo said:


> jaybird0827 said:
> 
> 
> > Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. It's regeneration first, then faith/repentance. See Westminster Shorter Catechism QA 85-87.
> ...



Perhaps you're thinking too much along the lines of Billy Graham - wherein being "born again" is something that is said to happen AFTER one comes to faith. Problem for him is that is impossible, since being born again is a heart-change that occurs by God's work in us, and is a prerequisite to the exercise of faith and repentance. One can't, in his natural state, ever come to trust in Christ - not because he wants to and cannot, but because he doesn't even want to. He's GOT to be regenerate first, or the thought of submitting to God and humbling himself before him won't even occur to him. It will appear as foolishness.

Regeneration (or to use more common parlance, "being born again") is that act of God (see Christ's discussion with Nicodemus - "born from above" is not something that we can cause by anything we do or want to do, despite what Graham says) from which proceed all other fruits of the Christian life. Without it, a man is lost and dead in trespasses and sins.


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## Contra_Mundum (Dec 1, 2008)

Faith and Repentance are the twin elements of Conversion.

As others have said, only the ALIVE can do anything toward salvation. In DEATH none can do anything. And we are dead until we are Regenerated (made over again).

Those who are regenerated will do what the living do--"whosoever liveth and *believeth* in me shall never die." John 11:26


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## Jimmy the Greek (Dec 2, 2008)

To the OP. Sproul is presenting the standard Reformed position. As also,

"Regeneration is inseparable from its effects and one of its effects is faith. Without regeneration it is morally and spiritually impossible for a person to believe in Christ, but when a person is regenerated it is morally and spiritually impossible for that person not to believe." John Murray, _Redemption Accomplished and Applied_, Eerdmans, p. 106.

This truth is seen in John 10:26, “But you do not believe, because you are not my sheep.” Today’s preachers would have us rewrite this verse, for we are told we must believe in order to become one of His sheep. But here Jesus says we do not believe because we are not His sheep. The Holy Spirit must make you one of His sheep (through the new birth, regeneration) so that you can hear His voice! One must be born again.

The grammer in 1 John 5:1 explicitly teaches that regeneration precedes faith. “Believes” is a participle in the present tense, whereas the verb “born” is in the perfect tense. It could thus be paraphrased:.. “Everyone now believing that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God in the past with the result that he is now in a state of spiritual life.”

This is also the order of Psa. 80:18, “Revive us, and we will call upon thy name.” Unless a man is revived, he simply cannot and will not call upon God in faith.


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## Hilasmos (Dec 2, 2008)

> 1 John 2:29: If you know that he is righteous, you may be sure that everyone who practices righteousness *has been born of him*.





> 1 John 3:9: No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God’s seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he *has been born of God*.






> 1 John 4:7: Beloved, let us love one another, for love is from God, and whoever loves *has been born of God *and knows God.






> 1 John 5:1: Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ *has been born of God*, and everyone who loves the Father loves whoever has been born of him.



The underlined words are present tense, indicating a present action or reality; while the *bolded *works are perfect tense, indicating a past action with present results (simplified). The argument in 1 John is that whoever is practicing righteousness, loving, not sinning, is doing so based on their prior regeneration. These acts are fruits of being "born of God." Necessary fruits. 

Most Arminians don't have a problem with this, except for the fact this list of "fruits" ends in 1 John 5:1. Using the same perfect tense construction the "faith that Jesus is the Christ" is shown to be preceded by temporally and causally the spiritual birth. Just as being born of God causally precedes loving, not sinning, and acts of righteousness. Hence, it cannot be argued the unregenerate perform acts of righteousness, and in the same way, the unregenerate cannot perform faith...and this is what the perfect tense points to.

-----Added 12/2/2008 at 11:26:30 EST-----

I see that Gomarus already alluded to this verse, well there is a bigger explanation.


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## jwithnell (Dec 2, 2008)

Perhaps it is clearer to think of this as a _logical_ order rather than a _temporal_ order. We are regenerated, therefore we respond in faith. But there's no real separation in time.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Dec 2, 2008)

jwithnell said:


> Perhaps it is clearer to think of this as a _logical_ order rather than a _temporal_ order. We are regenerated, therefore we respond in faith. But there's no real separation in time.



True. We are speaking of cause and effect, not a separation in time. There is no Scriptural warrant for thinking in terms of a regenerate soul running around in unbelief.


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## Scott1 (Dec 2, 2008)

Gomarus said:


> jwithnell said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps it is clearer to think of this as a _logical_ order rather than a _temporal_ order. We are regenerated, therefore we respond in faith. But there's no real separation in time.
> ...



I think that's right- faith immediately follows with no real separation in time. 

But while explaining "temporal" versus "logical" order has made for pages and pages of passionate internet and blog debate and even has divided some people, it usually doesn't help a new believer or someone new to the doctrines of grace understand what God does in saving a sinner.

God regenerates us and saving faith immediately follows- both are 100% acts of God!


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## Jimmy the Greek (Dec 2, 2008)

I think the issue in this thread is critical -- and the crucial element in understanding a monergistic work of salvation versus a synergistic work. In my humble opinion, this is essentially what separates Calvinists from the rest regarding soteriology.


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## Hilasmos (Dec 2, 2008)

jwithnell said:


> Perhaps it is clearer to think of this as a _logical_ order rather than a _temporal_ order. We are regenerated, therefore we respond in faith. But there's no real separation in time.



Yea, I didn't mean to imply there was a big separation of time. 

However, I don't know that it is purely a logical priority, rather than a causal priority, and if causal, to some degree, it would be temporal since we are temporal beings.


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## moral necessity (Dec 2, 2008)

Javilo said:


> jaybird0827 said:
> 
> 
> > Faith and repentance are two sides of the same coin. It's regeneration first, then faith/repentance. See Westminster Shorter Catechism QA 85-87.
> ...



Just as turning left implies a turning away from the right, so it is with faith and repentance. Turning in faith to Christ as the Savior implies turning away or repenting from all other saviors. This is shown in the story of Moses lifting the snake up on the pole. Those bitten had to turn from all other resources for healing and turn in faith to the snake on the pole. So, repentance and faith operated hand in hand, the one along with the other. 

Regeneration carries different meanings in theology, I'm pretty sure. One is very restrictive, and refers specifically to the imparting of a new principle of life into our beings, and the other is more broad, describing the overall restoring of us to life and the experience of it, and may include both faith and repentance. 

The former use of the word regeneration refers to the initial intrusion of God into the soul of man, with a new principle of holiness, whereby all of the seeds of faith and repentance and all of the other graces are imparted into the soul of a person. In my opinion, this does not necessarily make it mandatory to say that these seeds of faith and repentance or other graces sprout immediately, just as it does not mandate that they mature immediately. However, their presence is immediate within the person when they are regenerated, if in no other form than as a seed. I tend to leave it up to God to determine the time in which the seed opens up and begins to manifest itself. If I were making an analogy to summarize it, I would say that the planting of the seed in the soil represents this use of the word regeneration. The opening and sprouting of the seed is the visible manifestation of that regeneration. The rains for such sprouting may come early or late, but, either way, the seed has been planted and the ground has been "regenerated". Some use the regenerating of infants to illustrate this. 

The other use of the word "regeneration" emphasizes the entire package of bringing us to life, beyond just the initial intrusion of God into the soul with this new principle of holiness. It would also include the sprouting of the seeds of faith and repentance, at least initially in some measure, to where the person has actually experienced an "awakening" unto new life from the dead. Therefore, regeneration, in this sense, would include both faith and repentance, at least in some measure and degree, being active and alive in the person. In this state, the person has experienced a "coming to life" or "regeneration", and has embraced the Savior in some measure. 

I'm fairly certain that both uses of this word regeneration have been used by puritans and reformers alike, depending on what they were talking about at the moment. And so, it is important to discern what use of the word "regeneration" one is intending when trying to answer the question you are asking.

Blessings!


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## Jon Lake (Dec 2, 2008)

Calvibaptist said:


> Javilo said:
> 
> 
> > jaybird0827 said:
> ...


I have always struggled with the terms I am glad this came about. In "theory" could there be a regeneration without a repentance following????


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2008)

Jon Lake said:


> Calvibaptist said:
> 
> 
> > Javilo said:
> ...



I'm not sure what you're wanting. But I think the answer, theory or otherwise, is NO.

Regeneration is SO drastic and wonderful a change that it is, in fact, completely impossible, even "in theory" (though I don't like to use such language) for one to be regenerated and NOT repent and believe. Regeneration NECESSARILY brings about faith and repentance - it is so intimately tied to it that one cannot exist without the other. Regeneration is the breath of God's spirit into the individual - and the first breath the person takes thereafter is a breath of faith. To ask if regeneration can occur without faith is to ask whether the unseeing eye can be miraculously put in full working order and not see when light hits it. 

Can't happen. Nope.


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## Jon Lake (Dec 2, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Jon Lake said:
> 
> 
> > Calvibaptist said:
> ...


 Easy Killer, I did call it a theory, I never said it could or has hapened my Friend.


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## Confessor (Dec 3, 2008)

Regeneration is awesome, and it gives way to faith, which is also awesome.


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## jogri17 (Dec 3, 2008)

Donc.... Sproul is not wrong. Regeneration is not repentance


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## cih1355 (Dec 4, 2008)

Faith, not repentance, is the instrument that receives justification. Is this correct?

Is it true that placing your faith in Christ and repenting of your sins happens at the same time?


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## Hilasmos (Dec 4, 2008)

cih1355 said:


> Faith, not repentance, is the instrument that receives justification. Is this correct?
> 
> Is it true that placing your faith in Christ and repenting of your sins happens at the same time?



Repentance entails a "change of mind," in part, of how you view your sins. I don't see how you could have a genuine faith in Christ for forgiveness of your sins, if in fact you haven't had a "change in mind" concerning the gravity and sinfulness of your "sins" where by you want to "trun away from" them.


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## ManleyBeasley (Dec 4, 2008)

1 Corinthians 2:14- The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. ESV

The accepting of the truth, which includes faith in Christ and repentance from sin, is impossible for the natural man. Regeneration (spiritual life) produces both faith and repentance.


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