# Calvinist Methodist?



## arapahoepark

Isn't that an oxymoron? When did methodists because weslyan/arminian? I though they were synonymous until I found out Lloyd Jones was one, and I believe Whitefield was too?


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## Quatchu

Historically most of the Welsh Methodists were Calvinist, That is from the tradition Jones came out of. Originally there were two strains of Methodists, the Calvinists (Whitefield) and the Arminians (Wesley). As time went on the Arminians kind of swallowed up the Calvinists until you have in modern times Methodism being synonymous with arminian, but it was not always the case.


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## arapahoepark

Quatchu said:


> Historically most of the Welsh Methodists were Calvinist, That is from the tradition Jones came out of. Originally there were two strains of Methodists, the Calvinists (Whitefield) and the Arminians (Wesley). As time went on the Arminians kind of swallowed up the Calvinists until you have in modern times Methodism being synonymous with arminian, but it was not always the case.


Ah never knew that! Thanks!


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## Rufus

The Calvinist Methodists in Wales is the current Presbyterian Church of Wales.


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## Philip

Rufus said:


> The Calvinist Methodists in Wales is the current Presbyterian Church of Wales.



Sadly one of the most liberal historically-reformed bodies in the world.


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## yeutter

Historically a Welsh Calvinistic Methodist denomination existed in the United States as a distinct denomination. If memory serves me aright the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Churches were found in the mining regions of Pennsylvania & West Virginia as early as 1828. In 1920 the Welsh Calvinistic Methodists merged with the old United Presbyterian Church of North America, [after the UPCNA had adopted hymn singing]. In 1958 the UPCNA merged with the mainstream Presbyterian Church USA to form the United Presbyterian Church USA. [Noteworthy men that came into the mainstream Presbyterian Church USA with the merger of the UPCNA were Theodolphus Mills Taylor, Addison Leitsch, & John H. Gerstner.] I do not know if any old Welsh Calvinistic Methodist congregations still exist in the mainstream PCUSA.


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## Rufus

Philip said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Calvinist Methodists in Wales is the current Presbyterian Church of Wales.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly one of the most liberal historically-reformed bodies in the world.
Click to expand...


That's sad to hear, I tried to get a grasp of them by reading their Wikipedia page but never could.


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## hermanchauw

Are there Calvinist Methodist congregation(s) in Singapore?


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## FenderPriest

Originally, Methodists were Calvinists since George Whitefield, who's preaching and ministry leaned in that direction from the beginning. The whole history of how that happened, and how Methodism turned Arminian fairly quickly under Wesley's ministry is recounted in Arnold Dallimore's biography on George Whitefield. More historical information on the Calvinistic Methodist can be found in this recently translated two volume set: Calvinistic Methodist Fathers of Wales.

Moreover, along these lines, a little sliver of church history for the Calvinistic Methodists can be found in the life and legacy of Selina, Countess of Huntingdon. Here's a good biography of her. She left an entire denomination after her, which I can only guess would fit the "Calvinistic Methodist" stripe since that's what she was: Countess of Huntingdon's Connexion; or their official website: Countess Of Huntingdons Connexion


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## Martin

Here is a piece by Martyn Lloyd-Jones on Welsh Calvinistic Methodism.

William Williams & Welsh Calvinistic Methodism


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## Rufus

Arguably the Calvinistic Methodists may have never left the Church of England, the Methodists existed within the Church of England until close to Wesley's death when he ordained a minister without the permission of the Church.


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## crixus

arap said:


> Isn't that an oxymoron? When did methodists because weslyan/arminian? I though they were synonymous until I found out Lloyd Jones was one, and I believe Whitefield was too?



Oxymoron is the first thing I thought of when I saw the title of this thread too. But with all the wild _schisms_ that have taken place over the centuries we shouldn't be surprised.


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## Martin

Confession of Faith of the Calvinistic Methodists or the Presbyterians of Wales


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