# Hodge: You can't be Presbyterian and against the Sabbath and RPW



## NaphtaliPress (May 19, 2017)

And that is according to Hodge's view of the system of doctrine to which Presbyterians must subscribe to have that identity. So, while I don’t know what you would call what passes for it in many places today, but without the doctrine of the Lord’s Day or Christian Sabbath, and the regulative principle of worship, it isn’t Presbyterianism.
You have to start on p. 24 and then jump to page 27 to get past all the prior semi-colons and doctrines listed.
We [in Hodges view of system subscription] do not expect that our ministers should adopt every proposition contained in our standards. This they are not required to do. But they are required to adopt the system; and that system consists of certain doctrines, no one of which can be omitted without destroying its identity. Those doctrines are, the plenary inspiration of the Scriptures ... [skip 3 pages later] the doctrines concerning worship and the Sabbath....​

Reactions: Like 4 | Informative 1 | Amen 2


----------



## Cymro (May 19, 2017)

I have always argued that there is a more expansive connotation to Presbyterianism than the gradations of church government, but such as RPW must also be included historically as well as biblically. As for the Sabbath day doctrine I would query the denial of, or the relaxation of it, whether any denomination was faithful and true.

Reactions: Like 2 | Amen 1


----------



## earl40 (May 19, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> And that is according to Hodge's view of the system of doctrine to which Presbyterians must subscribe to have that identity. So, while I don’t know what you would call what passes for it in many places today, but without the doctrine of the Lord’s Day or Christian Sabbath, and the regulative principle of worship, it isn’t Presbyterianism.
> You have to start on p. 24 and then jump to page 27 to get past all the prior semi-colons and doctrines listed.
> We [in Hodges view of system subscription] do not expect that our ministers should adopt every proposition contained in our standards. This they are not required to do. But they are required to adopt the system; and that system consists of certain doctrines, no one of which can be omitted without destroying its identity. Those doctrines are, the plenary inspiration of the Scriptures ... [skip 3 pages later] the doctrines concerning worship and the Sabbath....​



Sadly he is speaking to a very small "choir" of true Presbyterians that ought to heed his words. I know and experienced such in that I have the bite marks on my rear when I bring this subject up to any of the few PCA and OPC pastors I know personally.

Reactions: Sad 1


----------



## MW (May 19, 2017)

This reminds me of Samuel Miller's statement in his work on Presbyterianism: "But although the term Presbyterian has a primary reference to the form of Church government; yet Presbyterian Churches were originally agreed, and have been commonly, in all ages agreed, in a variety of other matters, which we believe are all warranted by the Holy Scriptures. It is to the whole system, then, of doctrine, government, and mode of worship, which now distinguishes the Presbyterian Church in the United States, that the attention of the readers of these pages is requested; and which, it shall be my aim to show, is set forth in the Word of God, 'the only infallible rule of faith and practice.'"

Reactions: Like 3


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (May 20, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> And that is according to Hodge's view of the system of doctrine to which Presbyterians must subscribe to have that identity. So, while I don’t know what you would call what passes for it in many places today, but without the doctrine of the Lord’s Day or Christian Sabbath, and the regulative principle of worship, it isn’t Presbyterianism.
> You have to start on p. 24 and then jump to page 27 to get past all the prior semi-colons and doctrines listed.
> We [in Hodges view of system subscription] do not expect that our ministers should adopt every proposition contained in our standards. This they are not required to do. But they are required to adopt the system; and that system consists of certain doctrines, no one of which can be omitted without destroying its identity. Those doctrines are, the plenary inspiration of the Scriptures ... [skip 3 pages later] the doctrines concerning worship and the Sabbath....​


Glad you found the quote. Here is a slightly more digestible version of the entire section:


Spoiler



_The Reunion Of The Old And New-School Presbyterian Churches, pp. 23-27_
By Charles Hodge

We do not expect that our ministers should adopt every proposition contained in our standards. This they are not required to do. But they are required to adopt the system; and that system consists of certain doctrines, no one of which can be omitted without destroying its identity. 

Those doctrines are, 
*-* the _plenary inspiration of the Scriptures_ of the Old and New Testament, and the consequent infallibility of all their teachings;
*-* the _doctrine of the Trinity_, that there is one God subsisting in three persons, the Father, Son, and Spirit, the same in substance and equal in power and glory; 
*-* the _doctrine of decrees and predestination_ as above stated (_NB: repeated below from pp. 23-24_); 
Our Confession teaches that God foreordains whatever comes to pass; that he executes his decree in the works of creation and providence; that his providential government is holy, wise, and powerful, controlling all his creatures and all their actions; that from the fallen mass of men, he has from all eternity, of his mere good pleasure, elected some to everlasting life; that by the incarnation and mediatorial work of his eternal Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, and by the effectual working of his Spirit, he has rendered the salvation of his people absolutely certain; that the reason why some are saved and others not, is not the foresight of their faith and repentance, but solely because he has elected some and not others, and that in execution of his purpose, in his own good time, he sends them the Holy Spirit, who so operates on them as to render their repentance, faith, and holy living absolutely certain. Now it is plain that men may differ as to the mode of God’s providential government, or the operations of his grace, and retain the facts which constitute the essence of this doctrinal scheme. But if any one teaches that God cannot effectually control the acts of free agents without destroying their liberty; that he cannot render the repentance or faith of any man certain; that he does all he can to convert every man, it would be an insult to reason and conscience, to say that he held the system of doctrine which embraces the facts and principles above stated.​
*-* the _doctrine of creation_, viz., that the universe and all that it contains is not eternal, is not a necessary product of the life of God, is not an emanation from the divine substance, but owes its existence as to substance and form solely to his will; and in reference to man that he was created in the image of God, in knowledge, righteousness, and holiness, and not in _puris naturalibus_, without any moral character;
*-* the _doctrine of providence_, or that God effectually governs all his creatures and all their actions, so that nothing comes to pass which is not in accordance with his infinitely wise, holy, and benevolent purposes;
*-* the _doctrine of the covenants_; the first, or covenant of works, wherein life was promised to Adam, and in him to his posterity, upon condition of perfect and personal obedience; and the second, or covenant of grace, wherein God freely offers unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in him that they may be saved, and promising to give unto all who are ordained unto life, his Holy Spirit, to make them willing and able to believe;
*-* the _doctrine concerning Christ our Mediator_, ordained of God to be our prophet, priest, and king, the head and Saviour of his Church, the heir of all things, and judge of the world, unto whom he did, from eternity, give a people to be his seed, to be by him in time redeemed, called, justified, sanctified, and glorified, and that the eternal Son of God. of one substance with the Father, took upon him man’s nature, so that two whole, perfect, and distinct natures, the Godhead and the manhood, were inseparably joined together in one person, without conversion, composition, or confusion; that this Lord Jesus Christ, by his perfect obedience and sacrifice of himself, hath fully satisfied the justice of his Father; and purchased not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven for all those whom the Father hath given to him;
*-* the _doctrine of free will_, viz., that man was created not only a free agent, but with full ability to choose good or evil, and by that choice determine his future character and destiny; that by the fall he has lost this ability to spiritual good; that in conversion God by his Spirit enables the sinner freely to repent and believe;
*-* the _doctrine of effectual calling_, or regeneration, that those, and those only whom God has predestinated unto life, he effectually calls by his word and Spirit from a state of spiritual death to a state of spiritual life, renewing their wills, and by his almighty power determining their wills, thus effectually drawing them to Christ; yet so that they come most freely; and that this effectual calling is of God’s free and special grace alone, not from anything foreseen in man;
*-* the _doctrine of justification_, that it is a free act or act of grace on the part of God; that it does not consist in any subjective change of state, nor simply in pardon, but includes a declaring and accepting the sinner as righteous; that it is founded not on anything wrought in us or done by us; not on faith or evangelical obedience, but simply on what Christ has done for us, i.e., in his obedience and sufferings unto death; this righteousness of Christ being a proper, real, and full satisfaction to the justice of God, his exact justice and rich grace are glorified in the justification of sinners;
*-* the _doctrine of adoption_, that those who are justified are received into the family of God, and made partakers of the spirit and privileges of his children;
*-* the _doctrine of sanctification_, that those once regenerated by the Spirit of God are by his power and indwelling, in the use of the appointed means of grace, rendered more and more holy, which work, although always imperfect in this life, is perfected at death;
*-* the _doctrine of saving faith_, that it is the gift of God, and work of the Holy Spirit, by which the Christian receives as true, on the authority of God, whatever is revealed in his word, the special acts of which faith are the receiving and resting upon Christ alone for justification, sanctification, and eternal life;
*-* the _doctrine of repentance_, that the sinner out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger, but the odiousness of sin, and apprehension of the mercy of God in Christ, does with grief and hatred of his own sins, turn from them unto God, with full purpose and endeavor after new obedience;
*-* the _doctrine of good works_, that they are such only as God has commanded; that they are the fruits of faith; such works, although not necessary as the ground of our justification, are indispensable, in the case of adults, as the uniform products of the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of believers;
*-* the _doctrine of the perseverance of the saints_, that those once effectually called and sanctified by the Spirit, can never totally or finally fall from a state of grace, because the decree of election is immutable, because Christ’s merit is infinite, and his intercession constant; because the Spirit abides with the people of God; and because the covenant of grace secures the salvation of all who believe;
*-* the _doctrine of assurance_; that the assurance of salvation is desirable, possible, and obligatory, but is not of the essence of faith;
*-* the _doctrine of the law_, that it is a revelation of the will of God, and a perfect rule of righteousness; that it is perpetually obligatory on justified persons as well as others, although believers are not under it as a covenant of works;
*-* the _doctrine of Christian liberty_, that it includes freedom from the guilt of sin, the condemnation of the law, from a legal spirit, from the bondage of Satan and dominion of sin, from the world and ultimately from all evil, together with free access to God as his children. Since the advent of Christ, his people are freed also from the yoke of the ceremonial law. God alone is the Lord of the conscience, which he has set free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are in anything contrary to his word, or beside it, in matters of faith or worship;
*-* the _doctrines concerning worship and the Sabbath_, concerning _vows and oaths_, of _the civil magistrate_, of _marriage_, contain nothing peculiar to our system, or which is matter of controversy among Presbyterians.

Reactions: Like 2


----------

