# Raising hands in church



## JesusIsLord (Jun 4, 2017)

Guys, this might be a weird question, but does anyone know when it became popular to raise hands during the worship (songs) part of the service?

Was this a long time tradition of the Church or a modern day invention?

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## timfost (Jun 4, 2017)

I certainly can't say it's wrong to lift hands, but if we are to offer sacrifices of praise (Heb. 13:15), lifted hands would look like fingers forward, palms up as a sacrificial lamb would be offered, not a fluttering frenzy above the head.

I'll let better minds than mine answer your question.


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## VictorBravo (Jun 4, 2017)

Maybe I'm too cynical here: I've taken it to be a fairly new, as in 20th century, practice where individuals (as opposed to corporate practice) adopt certain Scriptural references to apply to worship.

A couple of examples from the Psalms:

Psalm 28:2 Hear the voice of my supplications, when I cry unto thee, when I lift up my hands toward thy holy oracle.

Psalm 63:4 Thus I will bless You while I live; I will lift up my hands in Your name.

Indeed, reaching up toward God with outstretched hands is a common theme in Scripture. But it also is used to reach out to false Gods. I'll note that it may not be all that new. The first time I saw someone do it was fairly long ago in a cathedral in Paris. It was a priest holding his hands up high during his ceremony.


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## Jeri Tanner (Jun 4, 2017)

I'm pretty sure that what we see practiced today (hands raised during singing) started with the charismatic movement in the late 60's and early 70's. The only NT warrant for raised hands is in 1 Timothy 2:8, and it specifies men only who are praying (it doesn't seem metaphorical in that passage, but others may know better). 


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## JesusIsLord (Jun 4, 2017)

Jeri Tanner said:


> I'm pretty sure that what we see practiced today (hands raised during singing) started with the charismatic movement in the late 60's and early 70's. The only NT warrant for raised hands is in 1 Timothy 2:8, and it specifies men only who are praying (it doesn't seem metaphorical in that passage, but others may know better).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I suspected that this was the case. Coming from a Calvary chapel background I know they had a great amount of influence during that time

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## Jake (Jun 5, 2017)

I've seen churches that have raising of hands as parts of the liturgy, including in prayers (particularly of invocation), the benediction, and a (sung) doxology at the end of the service. Such ideas seem to be rooted in adopting scriptural positions during worship, though we do seem to see it more in prayer than song.

However, in churches with modern worship and nothing to hold during worship that could be otherwise dropped, the raising of hands seems to come primarily with shifts in the key being played by musical instruments than any uniform liturgy or even particular response to the content of what is being sung. In that case, such practice might have arisen independently based on the type of music being employed and the circumstances around it (e.g., no hymnal to hold).


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## hammondjones (Jun 5, 2017)

JesusIsLord said:


> Was this a long time tradition of the Church or a modern day invention?



Lifting hands in prayer, longtime tradition. Lifting hands as individualistic spiritual barometer, modern day.

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## Dachaser (Jun 5, 2017)

Jeri Tanner said:


> I'm pretty sure that what we see practiced today (hands raised during singing) started with the charismatic movement in the late 60's and early 70's. The only NT warrant for raised hands is in 1 Timothy 2:8, and it specifies men only who are praying (it doesn't seem metaphorical in that passage, but others may know better).
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Yes, and that style of worship also found in Baptist churches like mine, whose viewpoint would be that God allows for whatever he did not forbid in the scriptures...


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## Von (Jun 9, 2017)

Lifting hands in a rock concert comes naturally. Is this due to worship of the band or being moved by the music? 

But even at a concert not all people lift their hands. So I think this might be a motive/heart issue - some people would be moved to lift their hands during worship music at a service due to the fact that they are being moved by the act of worship itself or being swayed by the music. 
Others might do it as a "work of the law" to prove their spirituality.

The right or wrongness of it lies (as with many issues in Scripture) not in the act itself, but in the heart of the individual. And the disdain or approval from the congregants should not rest on the outward act itself.


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## Cymro (Jun 9, 2017)

Having to attend two weddings recently as a guest, it turned out that they were of a charismatic content. Never experiencing these kind of services, it was quite a shock to my system. As is the modern custom, the evening was geared to the younger generation, (16-40) in which today's popular "music" was loudly played by the same group as in the wedding services. Now theses were mainly confessing Christians who gyrated , jigged and punched the air with their uplifted arms according to the increased beat or tempo. It was necessary that I stayed at least an hour for the sake of both couples, and then left.
At the time and on reflection it occurred to me, that the same thing happened in the service as in the dances in the evening. In the pew there was the jigging, and swaying and uplifting of hands, which was replicated on the dance floor. People there stood in groups talking if not dancing, and were noticeably moving their bodies to the beat as they conversed. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection between music and this form of worship and dancing is most evident, and proceeded from what our fathers termed animal spirits or the flesh. The fear of the Lord and the holy solemnity which that induces was absent, and that saddened me greatly. 
My understanding of lifting hands is as the Muslims practise, the holding out of the arms horizontally with palms to heaven to receive the blessing.

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## timfost (Jun 9, 2017)

Cymro said:


> People there stood in groups talking if not dancing, and were noticeably moving their bodies to the beat as they conversed. There is no doubt in my mind that the connection between music and this form of worship and dancing is most evident, and proceeded from what our fathers termed animal spirits or the flesh.



I'm certainly in no place to judge the situation, but what are your thoughts on the passage below?

"Now as the ark of the Lord came into the City of David, Michal, Saul's daughter, looked through a window and saw King David leaping and whirling before the Lord; and she despised him in her heart."

I only want to caution against condemning something that may not be evil in itself. Again, your assessment of the wedding situation may be correct.

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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 9, 2017)

I'm fine with people raising their hands during worship so long as they also raise them during the sermon

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## jwithnell (Jun 9, 2017)

Ga-lor-eeee! Can you say it with me brothers? Aaa-men!

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## Von (Jun 9, 2017)

jwithnell said:


> Can you say it with me brothers? Aaa-men!

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## Cymro (Jun 9, 2017)

I would say that David's example was unique , singular and extraordinary, which demonstrates the principle, the exception proves the rule. He had committed a grievous error with the Ark, but now understanding it was the Ark of the Covenant,( Christ the covenant keeper), and that he was establishing the true and national religion at Jerusalem, he gives vent to his joy with all his might. Notice it was not in the Tabernacle but outside, and it was accompanied with lawfully prescribed instruments. That is a far cry from a dance floor cacophony and similar religous noises in the church building. And it is a far cry from the faith of our fathers who worshipped under the knowledge of the awfulness and holiness of the high and lofty one that inhabiteth eternity. Isaiah felt his unworthiness on unclean lips; John fell at the feet of the risen exalted Christ"; the Seraphims veiled their faces and cried, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory," and it behoves us to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God. True joy runs deep and is made visible in a life willingly and lovingly conformable to the image of Him who created us.

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## Jeri Tanner (Jun 9, 2017)

Von said:


> Lifting hands in a rock concert comes naturally. Is this due to worship of the band or being moved by the music?
> 
> But even at a concert not all people lift their hands. So I think this might be a motive/heart issue - some people would be moved to lift their hands during worship music at a service due to the fact that they are being moved by the act of worship itself or being swayed by the music.
> Others might do it as a "work of the law" to prove their spirituality.
> ...



Does the raising of hands in public worship belong under the RPW? The only positive command for it I find in the NT is directed to the men when they pray. 

It also wasn't an individualistic thing in the OT, but a corporate command for all (whoever it was directed to, Psalm 134:2) to lift their hands. 

If the lifting of hands is regulated by God's word, then the right or wrong of it wouldn't depend on the individual but on whether it's commanded or not. 


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## Jeri Tanner (Jun 9, 2017)

Cymro said:


> I would say that David's example was unique , singular and extraordinary, which demonstrates the principle, the exception proves the rule. He had committed a grievous error with the Ark, but now understanding it was the Ark of the Covenant,( Christ the covenant keeper), and that he was establishing the true and national religion at Jerusalem, he gives vent to his joy with all his might. Notice it was not in the Tabernacle but outside, and it was accompanied with lawfully prescribed instruments. That is a far cry from a dance floor cacophony and similar religous noises in the church building. And it is a far cry from the faith of our fathers who worshipped under the knowledge of the awfulness and holiness of the high and lofty one that inhabiteth eternity. Isaiah felt his unworthiness on unclean lips; John fell at the feet of the risen exalted Christ"; the Seraphims veiled their faces and cried, "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord of hosts, the whole earth is full of His glory," and it behoves us to humble ourselves under the mighty hand of God. True joy runs deep and is made visible in a life willingly and lovingly conformable to the image of Him who created us.



As well, David was acting in his typological role of Prophet, Priest, and King. His actions aren't prescriptive for us.

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## RamistThomist (Jun 9, 2017)

Jeri Tanner said:


> but on whether it's commanded or not.



1 Tim 2:8 seems to command the men at least.


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## earl40 (Jun 10, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> 1 Tim 2:8 seems to command the men at least.



So should we lift our hands up every time we pray?


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## RamistThomist (Jun 10, 2017)

earl40 said:


> So should we lift our hands up every time we pray?



I do.

The only reason I don't make it a universal law (besides the fact I have zero authority to do so) is that there are cases in Scripture where it seems someone didn't raise his hands, like when Nehemiah offered the quick prayer before the King).


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## earl40 (Jun 10, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> I do.
> 
> The only reason I don't make it a universal law (besides the fact I have zero authority to do so) is that there are cases in Scripture where it seems someone didn't raise his hands, like when Nehemiah offered the quick prayer before the King).



You must be raising your hands a lot more than I do. I say this in jest in that if I did such I would have my hands raised in many situations even while I drive my car in hairy situations. Of course I realize we are speaking of raising hands in the official gathering and In my most humble opinion the verse in 1 Tim 2:8 should not be taken in a literal sense but in the sense that we are to have our heart engaged in prayer.

Calvin...
"Lifting up pure hands As if he had said, "Provided that it be accompanied by a good conscience, there will be nothing to prevent all the nations from calling upon God everywhere. But he has employed the sign instead of the reality, for "pure hands" are the expressions of a pure heart; just as, on the contrary, Isaiah rebukes the Jews for lifting up "bloody hands," when he attacks their cruelty.

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## RamistThomist (Jun 10, 2017)

earl40 said:


> In my most humble opinion the verse in 1 Tim 2:8 should not be taken in a literal sense but in the sense that we are to have our heart engaged in prayer.



That's the very thing one needs to prove. If Paul wanted to Neo-Platonize it, he could have said, "Lift up your spiritual hands in prayer." Interestingly, the church has a history of "lifting our hearts to the Lord" (sursum corda). If he wanted to say that, he could have.


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## earl40 (Jun 10, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> That's the very thing one needs to prove. If Paul wanted to Neo-Platonize it, he could have said, "Lift up your spiritual hands in prayer." Interestingly, the church has a history of "lifting our hearts to the Lord" (sursum corda). If he wanted to say that, he could have.



I hear you, so do you really raise your hands when praying in church? If not why not if you believe as you state.


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## RamistThomist (Jun 10, 2017)

earl40 said:


> I hear you, so do you really raise your hands when praying in church? If not why not if you believe as you state.



When the congregation raises its hands, yes I do. In private prayers, yes. Sometimes I don't for reasons in public Calvin stated--good order, not to cause a stumble. If I raise my hands and no one else is, practically I am diverting all attention to myself, which would be wrong.

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## Herald (Jun 10, 2017)

I came to faith in Christ in a Assembly of God church in 1979. The raising of hands was ubiquitous, as was speaking in tongues. The Baptist church I attend in Lakeland, FL has a minority, but hearty, group of people who raise their hands during congregational singing. I agree with a previous poster in this thread that the practice draws attention to the individual. That's one of the reasons I'm not in favor of special music. It devolves into an individual performance. All of these things have more to do with the move away from the corporate aspect of worship. Many worship services are akin to personal experiences within the corporate body. I think there's more here than just raising hands.

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## Jeri Tanner (Jun 10, 2017)

In 1 Timothy2:8 Paul gives the directive specifically to men, since in verse 9 he turns to the women with an "in like manner" directive for them. (Right?) I don't know what ramifications this has for the lifting of hands but it does seem to have them—I think.


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## earl40 (Jun 10, 2017)

Jeri Tanner said:


> In 1 Timothy2:8 Paul gives the directive specifically to men, since in verse 9 he turns to the women with an "in like manner" directive for them. (Right?) I don't know what ramifications this has for the lifting of hands but it does seem to have them—I think.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



"In like manner" pertains to a proper aspect of what ought to be done. Ladies ought to dress appropriately and "in like manner" men ought to offer up prayers with clean hands. Also the aspect of ladies not literally raising hands and only men doing such seems obviously off, as Calvin explains what pure hands in this instance is.


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## Jeri Tanner (Jun 10, 2017)

earl40 said:


> "In like manner" pertains to a proper aspect of what ought to be done. Ladies ought to dress appropriately and "in like manner" men ought to offer up prayers with clean hands. Also the aspect of ladies not literally raising hands and only men doing such seems obviously off, as Calvin explains what pure hands in this instance is.



Fine, you and Calvin win! [emoji6]


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## RamistThomist (Jun 11, 2017)

earl40 said:


> Ladies ought to dress appropriately and "in like manner" men ought to offer up prayers with clean hands.



Should ladies dress appropriately only in their heart?

And for clarification, when I talk about "raising hands," I Don't mean in a charismatic concert way. In many churches I've been in the men raise their hands during the doxology.

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## earl40 (Jun 11, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> Should ladies dress appropriately only in their heart?
> 
> And for clarification, when I talk about "raising hands," I Don't mean in a charismatic concert way. In many churches I've been in the men raise their hands during the doxology.



Sorry I thought you raised your hands "everywhere" when praying in the stance you seemed to contend for.


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## RamistThomist (Jun 11, 2017)

earl40 said:


> Sorry I thought you raised your hands "everywhere" when praying in the stance you seemed to contend for.



Well, in my personal devotions I do, but I was talking about primarily a liturgical act in church.


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## Von (Jun 12, 2017)

So to summarise:
We should close our natural eyes (even though it is not in Scripture), but definitely not our spiritual eyes. And we should preferably not lift our natural hands (even though it is in Scripture), but our spiritual hands, because Calvin said so.

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## SRoper (Jun 12, 2017)

In searching for prayer posture in art through the centuries, I was struck by the large percentage of subjects who prayed with eyes open.


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## Von (Jun 13, 2017)

SRoper said:


> with eyes open


Watch and pray (Matt 26:41) - I know of a church where this is the accepted practice.


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## RamistThomist (Jun 13, 2017)

I want every head bowed and every eye closed. Yes sir, I see that hand. Thank you. The buses will wait.

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