# Durham and 'Duty-Faith'



## KMK (Nov 23, 2007)

From my new, beautifully bound, edition of James Durham's "Christ Crucified: The Marrow of the Gospel" from Naphtali Press:

Sermon 3 concerning Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report?"



> That a people, to whom Christ is offered in the gospel, may warrantably accept of Christ; or, the offering of Christ in the gospel is warrant enough to believe in him. Otherwise there had been no just ground of expostulation and complaint for not believing. For though the complaint will not infer that they had the ability to believe, yet it will infer they had a warrant to believe; for the complaint is for the neglect of the duty they were called to. Pg. 86



And later in sermon #4 concerning the same verse...



> "We entered to speak of the great duty of a people that hears the gospel and the great means whereby this news becomes delightsome, and that is by faith to receive the report of the gospel, or to believe on Christ reported of in it. This is clearly implied, for the regrate (lament; complaint) which holds out the sin is, 'who hath believed our report?' pg. 92



Why would the preacher complain that some do not believe his report of the gospel? If it were not the duty of those whom he is commplaining about, then why is he complaining? 

Thoughts?


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## JM (Nov 23, 2007)

I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but what about those who do not hear the Gospel...is it their duty to believe in Jesus Christ of whom they've not heard? I'm aware of Romans 1 and "that they are without excuse" but I'm just trying to understand this whole duty faith controversy. 



jm


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## KMK (Nov 23, 2007)

JM said:


> I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but what about those who do not hear the Gospel...is it their duty to believe in Jesus Christ of whom they've not heard? I'm aware of Romans 1 and "that they are without excuse" but I'm just trying to understand this whole duty faith controversy.
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I am as well. I did not intend for this thread to become a debate on the topic itself but the use of Isa 53:1 as a 'proof text' of duty-faith.

As to your question, I think Rich makes a great point in Post #26 of this thread: http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/duty-believe-26645/



> If you read the book of Romans beginning from Romans 1, Paul states that he is not ashamed of the Gospel because the righteousness of God is revealed in it. In fact, it is only the Gospel that rightly acknowledges the righteousness of God. It is no mistake that Paul launches into the unrighteousness of men who supress the knowledge of God.
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> Now, we can certainly agree that a fallen man is not going to embrace the Gospel but, put another way, all we're acknowledging is that a fallen man is not going to acknowledge the righteousness of God. He will willfully and wantonly *suppress* God's righteousness.
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One way or another it is the duty of fallen man to acknowledge and be thankful for the righteousness of God. Whether one hears the gospel or not, this is a duty that is impossible for fallen man to do. Those whom the Lord chooses to save, He gives them an ability to acknowedge the righteousness of God through the gospel of His Son.

At least that's what I got out of Rich's post.


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## JM (Nov 23, 2007)

It still doesn't make all that much sense to me...I'll keep reading this thread in hopes of learning more about this topic.


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## JohnOwen007 (Nov 23, 2007)

JM said:


> It still doesn't make all that much sense to me...I'll keep reading this thread in hopes of learning more about this topic.



Perhaps a better way to understand those who haven't heard the gospel is that they have a duty to "seek" after God because of general revelation. This is what Paul explicitly says to the pagan Athenians in Acts 17:

Acts 17:26 (NIV) From one man he [God] made every nation of men, that they should inhabit the whole earth; and he determined the times set for them and the exact places where they should live. 27 God did this *so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him*, though he is not far from each one of us.

General revelation reveals enough of God for us to have a duty to seek him, and if we do we will "perhaps reach out for him and find him". That is, God will send the gospel to the person through a missionary (or whatever other means). Cornelius is a case in point. I know of plenty stories (from my missionary friends) of muslims, hindus etc. where this sort of thing has happened. (It all presupposes the prior work of God's spirit in their hearts of course).

In short: General revelation reveals the law (Rom. 2:14-15) which gives people a duty to seek for a gospel.

Blessings.


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## JM (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks Marty, that does make more sense in light of Romans 1.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 24, 2007)

KMK said:


> From my new, beautifully bound, edition of James Durham's "Christ Crucified: The Marrow of the Gospel" from Naphtali Press:
> 
> Sermon 3 concerning Isaiah 53:1 "Who hath believed our report?"
> 
> ...



Ken could you imagine being isaiah and having God tell you to speak to the people even though He blinded them and stopped thier ears.


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## Mayflower (Nov 24, 2007)

JohnOwen007 said:


> General revelation reveals enough of God for us to have a duty to seek him, and if we do we will "perhaps reach out for him and find him". That is, God will send the gospel to the person through a missionary (or whatever other means). Cornelius is a case in point. I know of plenty stories (from my missionary friends) of muslims, hindus etc. where this sort of thing has happened. (It all presupposes the prior work of God's spirit in their hearts of course).
> 
> In short: General revelation reveals the law (Rom. 2:14-15) which gives people a duty to seek for a gospel.
> 
> Blessings.



What do you think about this ????, would like to hear thoughts how to view this ???? :
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God’s Revelation to Heathen

Startling examples from around the world of God working in the lives of heathen peoples and preparing them, often centuries in advance, for the coming of the Gospel. 

The Incas (South America)
Pachacuti, king of the Incas from 1438 to 1471, restored one of the temples of the god worshipped by all his people – the sun. But he began to have doubts. He noted that a mere cloud could dim this ‘god.’ The sun did nothing but the same thing over and over, acting more like a laborer than a god. His observations brought the conclusion that the sun is neither universal, nor perfect, nor all-powerful. In Inca tradition there was a vague memory of Viracocha, the omnipotent Creator. Pachacuti’s own father had had a dream in which Viracocha reminded him that he truly was the Creator of all things. 

Deciding that the Creator, not the sun, was worthy of worship, Pachacuti met with the sun priests. He told them that the Creator is supreme and uncreated. He made all spirits and all peoples by his word. He manifests himself as a trinity when he wishes but otherwise he is surrounded only by archangels and heavenly warriors. He warms the world through his created sun. He brings peace and order. He is in his own being blessed and he has pity on people’s wretchedness. He alone judges and forgives and enables people to overcome their evil tendencies. From now on, Pachacuti commanded the aristocracy, the sun was to be regarded, like humanity, as created and that prayer was to be directed to Viracocha with awe and humility. (33-41) 


The Wa (Burma)
In the 1880’s, Pu Chan, a Wa tribesman, persuaded several thousand of his people to abandon headhunting and spirit-appeasement. He said the true God was about to send the long-awaited ‘white brother with a copy of the lost book’ that had been part of their folk-lore from time immemorial. If the brother learnt that the Wa people were doing evil things, he might consider them unworthy of the true God’s book. 

One morning Pu Chan readied a Wa pony, and told some of his disciples to follow it. He said that the previous night the true God had told him that at last the white brother was near. God would cause the pony to lead them to him. The pony started walking. Surely it would simply stop at the nearest stream. To the disciples’ amazement it kept going. On and on it went for about 200 miles over mountainous trails and down into the city of Kengtung, then turned into the gate of a mission compound and headed straight for a well. The disciples looked all around. No white man. No book. Hearing sounds in the well, they peered in. From the dry well a white face greeted them. Did he have a book from God? Yes! Before long about 10,000 Wa people had given their lives to Jesus. (87, 102-104) 

(Of course, there’s nothing special about being white. It’s just an historical fact that for some people groups it was white people who first brought them the Gospel.) 


The Gedeo (Ethiopia)
The Gedeo were a half-million strong Ethiopian tribe who believed in Magano, the benevolent, omnipotent, Creator of everything. And yet few prayed to Magano. They were far more concerned about trying to appease Sheit’an, an evil spirit. They felt they did not know Magano well enough to be free from this evil spirit. One day, however, a Gedeo man, Warrasa, prayed that Magano reveal himself to the Gedeo people. Then followed a vision in which he saw two white-skinned strangers erect temporary shelters under a certain sycamore tree near Warrasa’s hometown, Dilla. Later they built more permanent shiny-roofed structures. Warrasa had never seen either type of dwelling before. A voice told him that these men would bring a message from Magano. During the next eight years other Gedeo soothsayers prophesied that strangers would soon arrive with a message from Magano. At the end of 1948, missionaries Brunt and Cain planned to set up base far from Dilla but the political climate forced them to decide on Dilla. So two white men erected tents under that very sycamore tree Warrasa had seen in his vision. Events continued to unfold in accordance with the vision. Today there are tens of thousands of Gedeo Christians. (54-56) 

‘What happened among the Gedeo is by no means an isolated incident,’ writes Richardson. ‘Incredible as it seems, literally thousands of Christian missionaries down through history have been startled by exuberant welcome even among some of the earth’s remotest peoples! Folk . . . anticipated the coming of message-bearers for the true God almost as knowledgeably as if they had read about them in the morning news!’ (56) 


The Mbaka (Africa)
The Mbaka believed that the Creator revealed to their ancestors that he had sent his Son into the world to do something wonderful for all humanity. Their ancestors, the folklore continues, later turned from the truth about the Creator’s Son and in time even forgot what he had achieved for humanity. Since then successive generations longed to know the truth about the Creator’s Son. All that they could learn was that messengers, who would probably be white, would eventually come to restore the lost knowledge. One day those messengers arrived and the Mbaka embraced the Gospel. (56-58) 


The Karen (Burma)
In 1795 an English diplomat received an usually friendly welcome from the Karen people. Through an interpreter they asked if he was the ‘white brother’ they had been expecting for countless generations. If he were, he would have with him a book that their forefathers has lost. It was written by Y’wa, the Supreme God, and it would free them from their oppressors. The diplomat shook his head. 

Burma was home to about 800,000 Karen people and living in perhaps a thousand of their villages were people they esteemed as prophets of the God they called Y’wa. These special teachers kept reminding the people that the ways of the evil spirits that most of them followed were not the ways of Y’wa and that one day they must fully return to Y’wa’s ways. They rigorously opposed idolatry, and the Karen people refused to succumb to centuries of strong Buddhist influence. (73-77) 

Here is one of their hymns: 


The omnipotent is Y’wa; him we have not believed.
Y’wa created men anciently;
He has perfect knowledge of all things.
Y’wa created men at the beginning;
He knows all things to the present time.
O my children and grandchildren!
The earth is the treading place of the feet of Y’wa,
And heaven is the place where he sits.
He sees all things, and we are manifest to him. 

And another: 

Y’wa formed the world originally.
He appointed food and drink.
He appointed the ‘fruit of trial.’
He gave detailed orders.
Mu-kaw-lee deceived two persons.
He caused them to eat the fruit of the tree of trial.
They obeyed not; they believed not Y’wa . . .
When they ate the ‘fruit of trial,’
They became subject to sickness, aging, and death . . . (78) 

In 1816 a Muslim made contact with some Karen people. He was not very light skinned but upon questioning they discovered that he had a book he said was from God. The people were so interested that he gave it to them as a parting gift. For twelve years they venerated that book and kept constant vigil for the teacher who would one day give them understanding of the contents of the book. (76) 
Finally the white man they had been expecting arrived, opened the book and found it to be Christian – the Book and Common Prayer and the Psalms. The missionary affirmed it was indeed a good book from God, who alone should be worshipped. Their faces lit up, but darkened again when he explained they should not have worshipped the book. The tribesman who had gained honor as custodian of the book surrendered his status and became a humble follower of Jesus, along with tens of thousands of his people. (95) 


The Lisu (China)
In southwestern China several hundred thousand Lisu expected a white man to one day arrive with the book of the true God written in their own language. The amazing thing is that as at that time there had never been a written form of their language. Of course, it happened and they responded. (89, 105) 


Korea and China
Richardson cites evidence of an ancient belief in China and Korea that there was just one God and he must never be represented by idols. This belief seems to have predated Confucius by over 2,000 years. By about 1000 BC, however, religious leaders so emphasized God’s majesty and holiness that they decided that the Emperor was good enough to worship him just once a year. Everyone else was forbidden from worshipping God directly. (63) 


The Santal (India)
In the late 1860s two missionaries began preaching to the Santal people, of whom there were about two and a half million. Suddenly Santal sages excitedly declared that this new teaching must mean that the ‘Genuine God’ had not forgotten them after all. It turned out that these people believed they originated from the direction of what we call the Middle East and that their ancestors traveled with a knowledge of the Genuine God, until they came to some impassable mountains. In desperation they made a covenant to serve the spirits of the mountains if the spirits showed them a way through the mountains. Soon after they found a pass (the Khyber Pass?). Because of their oath, the Santal began appeasing spirits and engaging in sorcery until all knowledge of the ‘Genuine God’ was lost except the name. The thought that Jesus could heal the rift between their race and the ‘Genuine God’ moved them so greatly that tens of thousands became Christians. (41-48) 


The Motilones (South America)
There are very many other stories from around the world. This one comes from Bruce E Olson’s book Bruchko, Altamonte Springs, Florida, Creation House, 1978, pages 132, 139-140, 152. The Motilone people believed that a long time ago a false prophet deceived them, leading them away from God and now they were unable to find their way back. They had a legend that a prophet would come carrying banana stalks and God would come out of the stalks. Upon questioning this belief, Olson was shown a banana stalk like the one mentioned in the legend. Suddenly he realized that the stalk looked like the leaves of his Bible. This significantly increased the natives’ interest in the missionary’s message. 


A native in Dutch Guiana (now Suriname, South America)
Years before he had heard of missionaries, Adiri received dreams and visions in which he was convicted of sin and apparently converted. Heaven and hell were revealed to him. Near death because of illness, One appeared to him announcing that he was the mediator between God and man, and telling Adiri to go to missionaries for instruction. 

(Source: The Missionary Review of the World, July, 1896: 519-523, referred to in Strong’s Systematic Theology: 844) 

You might say, ‘Ah, but missionaries were involved!’ Yes, for two reasons. First, if this had happened centuries before the arrival of missionaries, we would never have heard of the event. In other words, who knows how many times such incidents have been repeated in unrecorded history? Second, would God have let Adiri remain in ignorance of so many other spiritual truths when missionaries were so close? Moreover, I believe missionaries are always God’s preferred option, because the enormity of his love for his children drives him to seek our involvement in his work. Christ died to make us royalty, and he longs for us to start acting like it right now by sharing in the most important work in the universe. Even when no obvious human intermediary is involved, I believe God is working through the prayers of his people. 


About Don Richardson
What prompted Don Richardson’s research into the religions of primitives is itself an amazing story. He bravely brought his family to live with cannibals for whom treachery was their highest virtue. This Irian Jayan tribe delighted in befriending strangers and showering them with kindness for months until their unsuspecting victims felt totally safe and accepted. Then they would suddenly kill and eat them. So perverse were these natives that when Don shared with them the Gospel story, Judas became their new hero. Jesus was the dupe to be laughed at. It seemed impossible for Gospel light to penetrate their darkened minds. Then tribal war broke out and Don threatened to leave unless they made peace. They wanted Don’s medicines, so they decided on a truce. Richardson began to wonder how a peace settlement could ever take place between people who esteemed deception. A man sadly gave up his baby boy and offered it to the other tribe for adoption. For as long as the son lived, there would be peace. Don, seeing the connection, exclaimed that Jesus was the Peace Child given by God to the world. Suddenly, the natives saw everything in a new light. To kill a Peace Child was a grave offense. They knew that a person giving up his son was a person to be trusted. Because Christ lives forever, peace with God is possible. Don found other ‘Christ-foreshadowing beliefs’ in their traditions. Everything began to fall into place. It was not too long before they were building a church to hold a thousand people. 

This experience made Don wonder whether the Lord has similarly seeded into the religions and traditions of other Gospel-ignorant peoples concepts that would prepare them for receiving the Gospel. He made some fascinating discoveries. 

The above is no substitute for reading Richardson’s books, which contain valuable additional details. Bracketed numbers in the text below indicate pages in Eternity in their Hearts from which the information was taken.


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## KMK (Nov 24, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> KMK said:
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> > From my new, beautifully bound, edition of James Durham's "Christ Crucified: The Marrow of the Gospel" from Naphtali Press:
> ...



It would be difficult for sure. But is it much differnent than preaching to those who have been given up to uncleanness and vile affections and a reprobate mind because when they knew God, they glorified Him not as God, neither were thankful? I do that every Lord's Day!


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 24, 2007)

KMK said:


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I guess it all depends on the number of people preaching to. For instance, Spurgeon, Whitfield and those who preached to thousands and thousands each time they spoke, could use more imperatives regarding faith/repentance. 

Where as I know of some congregations that all numbered under 50. The same 50 each week. How many times can you preach and duty faith to those that are so small. It would be as repititious as asking the same people to say the sinners prayer, or walk the aisle every Sunday.


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## KMK (Nov 24, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


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I agree that a pastor should know his sheep well. I do not know if there is an exact answer to this question. Hopefully the Spirit will guide the preacher. The book that I quoted contains 72 sermons just on Isaiah 53 and is not repetitious. I believe Calvin preached on Deut for 2 years straight. (or something like that)


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 24, 2007)

KMK said:


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2 straight years? Man he was obsessive compulsive. That would drive me crazy... And 72 sermons on one verse? I hope they all basically say the same thing...


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## toddpedlar (Nov 24, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> KMK said:
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> > I agree that a pastor should know his sheep well. I do not know if there is an exact answer to this question. Hopefully the Spirit will guide the preacher. The book that I quoted contains 72 sermons just on Isaiah 53 and is not repetitious. I believe Calvin preached on Deut for 2 years straight. (or something like that)
> ...



Well, it's 72 sermons on the whole chapter, not just one verse... and they most certainly do not say the same thing, not at all. It's a glorious read (something you should think about picking up, perhaps!)


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## JohnOwen007 (Nov 24, 2007)

Mayflower said:


> JohnOwen007 said:
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> 
> > General revelation reveals enough of God for us to have a duty to seek him, and if we do we will "perhaps reach out for him and find him". That is, God will send the gospel to the person through a missionary (or whatever other means). Cornelius is a case in point. I know of plenty stories (from my missionary friends) of muslims, hindus etc. where this sort of thing has happened. (It all presupposes the prior work of God's spirit in their hearts of course).
> ...



Dear Ralph, I found these stories fascinating. I have missionary friends who have told me similar tales as they evangelised unreached people groups. It seems that God uses general revelation to draw people toward the gospel, and then be saved.

Every blessing.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 24, 2007)

_Eternity in Their Hearts_ by Don Richardson is a fascinating book. 

I have also attached the comments written and assembled by Matthew Poole on Gen. 9.19 from his _Synopsis Criticorum_ concerning the origin of pagan mythology which may be of interest to some. 

As Calvin says, "experience testifies that a seed of religion is divinely sown in all" (_Institutes_, 1.4.1). But as Thomas Halyburton says in a book by this title, "Natural religion is insufficient, and revealed necessary, to man's happiness in his present state." See also Rom. 1-2 and Acts 17, especially, and WCF 1.1.


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## KMK (Nov 24, 2007)

Thanks, Andrew! I ordered my copy today! Thanks for the tip Mr. Wilms!


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## Mayflower (Nov 25, 2007)

JohnOwen007 said:


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I's fasinating, but what about the "exclusive" of the "preaching" of the Gospel to the nations by the church in order to be saved ? So, if these stories are true, than we can say that God saved "apart" from the preaching of the gospel by gospelminsters and missonaries ? Any thoughts or views concerning this ?


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## toddpedlar (Nov 25, 2007)

Mayflower said:


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Why in any of these cases would you say these people are saved, apart from the Word of God? On what basis would you make such a judgment? They may have legends containing "seeds of truth", but that is all that it is. 
I'll take God's word for it in His Word. No other name but Jesus Christ, who is the Way, Truth and Life. These people in these stories have perhaps been prepared for the preaching of the Gospel, which has the power of salvation - but prior to the preaching of the Word of God, prior to their trust being placed in Jesus Christ, they have nothing. Preparation isn't salvation.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 25, 2007)

Mayflower said:


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Didnt a person eventually come with the glad tidings? Or am I missing something.


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## JohnOwen007 (Nov 25, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> Didnt a person eventually come with the glad tidings? Or am I missing something.



Absolutely! General revelation should cause people to seek for a gospel. But the true gospel is not found in general revelation. It is only found in special revelation.

Christ is unique.


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## Mayflower (Nov 25, 2007)

JohnOwen007 said:


> Amazing Grace said:
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So can we concluded than, that these examples that i gave, show us that the Revelation from God given to the Heathen were no salvation at all, the salvation would only be sure when the missionaries would come ?


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## JM (Nov 25, 2007)

Does general revelation appeal to a spiritually dead person?


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## toddpedlar (Nov 25, 2007)

Mayflower said:


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Salvation would only be possible if missionaries came with the Word of Truth. This should be hedged with an "ordinarily", since God of course can do anything he deems necessary and right. But general revelation is completely impotent to save.


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## toddpedlar (Nov 25, 2007)

JM said:


> Does general revelation appeal to a spiritually dead person?



What truth there is in general revelation is often suppressed by spiritually dead men.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 25, 2007)

KMK said:


> Thanks, Andrew! I ordered my copy today! Thanks for the tip Mr. Wilms!



You're very welcome, Ken! And thank you; I trust it will be a blessing to you.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 25, 2007)

JohnOwen007 said:


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I absolutely agree with the second part here Brother Martin. But I have yet to find scriptural evidence where gr has led anyone to seek the Gospel. Is there any examples of this happening?


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## KMK (Nov 25, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


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I think the point is that GR *should* cause people to seek the righteousness of God (the Gospel). The point, I think, that Rich has been trying to make is that the fact that sinful men refuse to acknowledge and thank God for His righteousness is grounds for condemnation. Just because people should, does not mean that they will.


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