# Can anyone help me identify the group this lady is talking about?



## nicnap

So, my former employer and his wife wrote to me to ask about a lady that is working for them. This is how they describe what she believes:

She has "Sabbath" on Saturday
Doesn't celebrate Christmas
Doesn't eat pork
She told us that she is "Hebrew Nationalist"
They celebrate "harvest".

So, any ideas? I am out of them.


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## Poimen

Seventh Day Adventist?

-----Added 12/7/2009 at 09:45:08 EST-----

Or a variation of a Seventh Day Baptist?


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## AThornquist

Poimen said:


> Seventh Day Adventist?



Definitely wouldn't consider themselves "Hebrew Nationalist" and they are die-hard proponents of Christmas.


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## Galatians220

I'm thinking she's Jewish but not Messianic. Does she make any claims as to Yeshua (Jesus)? She's probably not an Orthodox Jew, but she's not a Christian, either. The Messianic Jews I've known celebrate Succoth (harvest), not Christmas - but they would never call themselves Hebrew nationalists. Many MJs, but not most, do not eat pork.

Margaret


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## Idelette

She sounds like a Messianic Jew, or some sort of other modern day religion based on Judaism.


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## nicnap

Seventh-Day was my first guess...Messianic Jew was my second, but they also said she is not Jewish in the letter. Do you think she could be a Gentile MJ?


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## toddpedlar

nicnap said:


> So, my former employer and his wife wrote to me to ask about a lady that is working for them. This is how they describe what she believes:
> 
> She has "Sabbath" on Saturday
> Doesn't celebrate Christmas
> Doesn't eat pork
> She told us that she is "Hebrew Nationalist"
> They celebrate "harvest".
> 
> So, any ideas? I am out of them.



Ten to One she's either involved with the Church of God, International (an offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) or else with the churches associated with Ronald Dart (who used to be CoGI, but left in the 90's). They do all the things you spoke of.

Todd


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## Andres

I would say she is just weird.


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## Claudiu

Andres said:


> I would say she is just weird.



Building on that...she could just be a mixture, or influenced by different ideas. A lot of people these days I've noticed tend to mix a lot of inconsistent ideas. This usually happens when the person has no confession of faith or doesn't follow a specific denomination strictly.

-----Added 12/7/2009 at 11:14:55 EST-----



toddpedlar said:


> nicnap said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, my former employer and his wife wrote to me to ask about a lady that is working for them. This is how they describe what she believes:
> 
> She has "Sabbath" on Saturday
> Doesn't celebrate Christmas
> Doesn't eat pork
> She told us that she is "Hebrew Nationalist"
> They celebrate "harvest".
> 
> So, any ideas? I am out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ten to One she's either involved with the Church of God, International (an offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) or else with the churches associated with Ronald Dart (who used to be CoGI, but left in the 90's). They do all the things you spoke of.
> 
> Todd
Click to expand...


This might be more correct. Don't know too much about this. But a quick search turned up this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_of_God_International_(USA)
and Church Of God International - Home


This was found on their Statement of Beliefs page:
"23. SABBATH
The seventh-day Sabbath is to be taught and kept holy in accordance with the biblical instruction. Instituted at creation, reaffirmed to Israel as a part of the covenant at Sinai, and taught by Jesus Christ, who is the Messenger of the New Covenant, the observance of the Sabbath is basic to a Christian’s relationship with God.

Genesis 2:2–3; Exodus 16; 20:8–11; 31:12–17; Mark 2:27–28; Luke 4:16

24. ANNUAL HOLY DAYS
The annual holy days were ordained by God, kept by the ancient Israelites, and continued by the early New Testament Christians. These seven annual “appointed feasts” picture God’s plan of salvation for man.

Leviticus 23; Zechariah 14:16; John 7:8–10; Acts 2:1; 12:3; 20:6, 16; 27:9; 1 Corinthians 5:8; 16:8"
Church Of God International - Statement Of Beliefs

-----Added 12/7/2009 at 11:20:01 EST-----

It would be interesting to see how they interpret Romans 14?
Specifically the first six verses: 
"14:1 As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. 2 One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. 3 Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. 4 Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master [1] that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand.

5 One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. 6 The one who observes the day, observes it in honor of the Lord. The one who eats, eats in honor of the Lord, since he gives thanks to God, while the one who abstains, abstains in honor of the Lord and gives thanks to God."


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## au5t1n

"O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you that you should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed among you as crucified? This only I want to learn from you: Did you receive the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?" Gal. 3:1-2 NKJV


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## Montanablue

I had relatives who were involved with a group like this about a decade ago. Their church was independent, but had some Pentecostal ties. It wouldn't surprise me horribly if she was part of some independent association or church. There are some odd ones out there.


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## D. Paul

cecat90 said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> I would say she is just weird.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Building on that...she could just be a mixture, or influenced by different ideas. A lot of people these days I've noticed tend to mix a lot of inconsistent ideas. This usually happens when the person has no confession of faith or doesn't follow a specific denomination strictly.
Click to expand...


My first response was "Who knows?" I mean, we can't pin down much of anything these days (e.g. Dispensationalism takes on any variety of ideas); the Internet creates a thousand differing strains of anyone's belief. Its frustrating to me beyond words to try and make sense of it.


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## JBaldwin

This rings of Armstrongism in some form. We have friends who were in this movement and are now in a shoot-off group from the movement.


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## yeutter

*Assembly of Yahweh?*

The ideas she expressed are similar to those expressed by a 7th day cult called the Assembly of Yahweh


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## tlharvey7

sounds like another "armstrongism"


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## TimV

Todd and the others have it, surely. I'll go further and say that "Hebrew Nationalist" doesn't mean a Christian Zionist or anything but she thinks she's descendant, as a White Anglo woman from the tribe of either Manasseh or Ephraim. Unless she's a Zionistic Jew, of course.


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## VictorBravo

I had never heard of "Hebrew Nationalist" outside the context of someone who likes kosher hot dogs. The hot dogs are pretty good. I first had one in New York, in the shade of the World Trade Center in a happier era.

The odd thing was that the vendor was a Palestinian immigrant who wore a button demanding Israel to leave his homeland--all the while proudly hawking his Hebrew National hot dogs.

I don't know, maybe the hot dog company has started a cult. . . .


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## Marrow Man

Yum. Hebrew Nationals are great hotdogs! I hear they answer to a higher standard.


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## Richard King

VictorBravo said:


> I had never heard of "Hebrew Nationalist" outside the context of someone who likes kosher hot dogs. The hot dogs are pretty good. I first had one in New York, in the shade of the World Trade Center in a happier era.
> 
> The odd thing was that the vendor was a Palestinian immigrant who wore a button demanding Israel to leave his homeland--all the while proudly hawking his Hebrew National hot dogs.
> 
> I don't know, maybe the hot dog company has started a cult. . . .



This reminds me of a T-shirt shop in New Orleans near Jackson Square. 
A very nice young black man was selling shirts with the battle flag, and with Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee as proud heroes and I asked him if it bothered him to see us (southern guys) buying these shirts. 
He said ( and I mean ZERO disrespect here...this was just his accent)
"what color yo' money"
I showed him my money and he said, "You and me gonna get along just fine brother."


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## MarieP

Galatians220 said:


> I'm thinking she's Jewish but not Messianic. Does she make any claims as to Yeshua (Jesus)? She's probably not an Orthodox Jew, but she's not a Christian, either. The Messianic Jews I've known celebrate Succoth (harvest), not Christmas - but they would never call themselves Hebrew nationalists. Many MJs, but not most, do not eat pork.
> 
> Margaret



I was going to ask "What does she believe about Jesus?" And then "What does she believe about the Gospel?"

Those would draw the lines in the sand!


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## Claudiu

Richard King said:


> VictorBravo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I had never heard of "Hebrew Nationalist" outside the context of someone who likes kosher hot dogs. The hot dogs are pretty good. I first had one in New York, in the shade of the World Trade Center in a happier era.
> 
> The odd thing was that the vendor was a Palestinian immigrant who wore a button demanding Israel to leave his homeland--all the while proudly hawking his Hebrew National hot dogs.
> 
> I don't know, maybe the hot dog company has started a cult. . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This reminds me of a T-shirt shop in New Orleans near Jackson Square.
> A very nice young black man was selling shirts with the battle flag, and with Stonewall Jackson and Robert E. Lee as proud heroes and I asked him if it bothered him to see us (southern guys) buying these shirts.
> He said ( and I mean ZERO disrespect here...this was just his accent)
> "what color yo' money"
> I showed him my money and he said, "You and me gonna get along just fine brother."
Click to expand...


 but this reminds me of H.K. Edgerton...only he's not about the money but letting people know about the south. H.K. Edgerton is a proud Southern black man who stands up for what he believes (and also carries the Confederate battle flag proudly). Check him out: Southern Heritage 411


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## Semper Fidelis

OK, this is just scary. I searched Google for "Hebrew Nationalist" and this thread came to the front: "hebrew nationalist" - Google Search


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## nicnap

Semper Fidelis said:


> OK, this is just scary. I searched Google for "Hebrew Nationalist" and this thread came to the front: "hebrew nationalist" - Google Search



This board is somehow comes up on top on a lot of searches. It's not a bad thing at all, though.


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## Jake

This sounds like someone at school. She is very adamant about keeping all parts of the law as well--including the festivals. They have saturday sabbath. She talks about the dangers of Christmas. It sounds very Judaistic while accepting Christ as the sacrifice, but not necessarily diety. 

I have talked to her a lot about her faith, but I have not actually asked her the name of it. I will ask today if I remember. It may not be a short conversation though.


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## toddpedlar

TimV said:


> Todd and the others have it, surely. I'll go further and say that "Hebrew Nationalist" doesn't mean a Christian Zionist or anything but she thinks she's descendant, as a White Anglo woman from the tribe of either Manasseh or Ephraim. Unless she's a Zionistic Jew, of course.



Actually Hebrew Nationalism sounds like the practice of those who like kosher hotdogs. I was a Hebrew Nationalist in that sense as a grad student in Chicago


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

toddpedlar said:


> nicnap said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, my former employer and his wife wrote to me to ask about a lady that is working for them. This is how they describe what she believes:
> 
> She has "Sabbath" on Saturday
> Doesn't celebrate Christmas
> Doesn't eat pork
> She told us that she is "Hebrew Nationalist"
> They celebrate "harvest".
> 
> So, any ideas? I am out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ten to One she's either involved with the Church of God, International (an offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) or else with the churches associated with Ronald Dart (who used to be CoGI, but left in the 90's). They do all the things you spoke of.
> 
> Todd
Click to expand...


This was going to be my guess. My wife's former landlady was CGI and she fit all of those listed above.


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## Dearly Bought

Nothing new to add, but just a further affirmation that she's probably associated with the Church of God, International (Not to be confused with COGIC/Church of God in Christ). Back in my Baptist days, I worked as an intern for a church that had an arrangement for a COGI congregation to use the building on Saturdays. They deny the Trinity and the orthodox doctrine of justification. They actually have a theology that might be called Binitarian in some ways...


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## ubermadchen

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> nicnap said:
> 
> 
> 
> So, my former employer and his wife wrote to me to ask about a lady that is working for them. This is how they describe what she believes:
> 
> She has "Sabbath" on Saturday
> Doesn't celebrate Christmas
> Doesn't eat pork
> She told us that she is "Hebrew Nationalist"
> They celebrate "harvest".
> 
> So, any ideas? I am out of them.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ten to One she's either involved with the Church of God, International (an offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) or else with the churches associated with Ronald Dart (who used to be CoGI, but left in the 90's). They do all the things you spoke of.
> 
> Todd
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This was going to be my guess. My wife's former landlady was CGI and she fit all of those listed above.
Click to expand...


Her landlady was CGI'd??? Wow!! That's impressive. How life-like was she? 

(sorry, just had to do it.)


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

ubermadchen said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ten to One she's either involved with the Church of God, International (an offshoot of Herbert Armstrong's Worldwide Church of God) or else with the churches associated with Ronald Dart (who used to be CoGI, but left in the 90's). They do all the things you spoke of.
> 
> Todd
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This was going to be my guess. My wife's former landlady was CGI and she fit all of those listed above.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Her landlady was CGI'd??? Wow!! That's impressive. How life-like was she?
> 
> (sorry, just had to do it.)
Click to expand...


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