# Different Greek Text's KJV and ESV



## RobertPGH1981 (Mar 20, 2011)

As I have been learning biblical Greek, I have noticed different variations in translations. For instance:

Jude 1:5 ESV says, "_Now I want to remind you, although you once fully knew it, that *Jesus*, who saved a people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed those who did not believe._"

However, Jude 1:5 KJV says, "_I will therefore put you in remembrance, though ye once knew this, how that the *Lord*, having saved the people out of the land of Egypt, afterward destroyed them that believed not._ "

It's obvious that Lord and Jesus are two seperate words in Greek (Kryios-Lord; Iesous-Jesus). 

After seeing the note in the ESV Study bible it had me wondering what are the different manuscripts out there. The note says, "Most of the oldest and most reliable manuscripts have Iesous ("Jesus"). Can anybody share the main different types of manuscripts and how they are dated?

God Bless,


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## puritanpilgrim (Mar 20, 2011)

The KJV and NKJV use the Textus Receptus and the ESV and most other modern translations use the Majority Text. If you do some searching on this board you will find many arguments both ways. The texts despite their differences are very similar. In fact I don't think one doctrine changes in either one. I believe the Textus Receptus comes from Byzantine texts which aren’t as old as those in the Majority Text. The Majority Text has been piece together by scholars who looked at different text to determine what the original texts would have said.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 21, 2011)

The ESV and other modern versions use the Critical Text, not the Majority Text. (Aaron, I'm thinking you probably meant to type Critical instead of Majority.) No significant translation uses the Majority Text, although most of the differences between the Majority Text and the Textus Receptus are noted in the NKJV. The Majority Text and Textus Receptus are very similar except in Revelation.


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## bookslover (Mar 21, 2011)

RobertPGH1981 said:


> Can anybody share the main different types of manuscripts and how they are dated?


 
Have you got a year or two to kill? (Heh) This can be a tremendously complicated subject - and that's just concerning the politics of it, alone...


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## nicnap (Mar 21, 2011)

RobertPGH1981 said:


> After seeing the note in the ESV Study bible it had me wondering what are the different manuscripts out there.



I would suggest doing a search in the translations and manuscripts forum. This has be discussed _ad infinitum_ there, and there are some really great threads.



RobertPGH1981 said:


> The note says, "Most of the oldest and most reliable manuscripts have Iesous ("Jesus"). Can anybody share the main different types of manuscripts and how they are dated?


As far as oldest being most reliable, that is a presupposition that is up for debate, and you find a *lot* of debate in those old threads too. Oldest does not mean best (I have my opinions as to what are the best manuscripts, but I have expressed them on those other threads). So, here's a brief rundown -- the ESV & most modern translations, excepting the NKJV, use the critical text of the Greek NT. This is based on a relatively few older manuscripts, and they often vary widely within themselves. The TR (Textus Receptus) is a collation of the Majority Text. The Majority Text is just that ... the majority of Greek manuscripts. They agree for the most part, and are (what I believe) the best preservation of the original. They date newer than the CT because, well you used manuscripts in those times until they wore out, and as they wore out the old ones were burned. So, the remaining copies are 'newer', but they are faithful copies of the originals. (This is my presupposition.) And so, God preserved His Word to the Church in the manuscripts she always had & used. 

As far as dating them, they look at the style in which the Greek was written, and for the material that the manuscript is printed on. The different styles (Uncials, etc.) and materials (papyrus, etc.) are how they date the manuscripts/fragments.

I know this didn't directly answer your questions, but again, there literally are hundreds if not thousands of threads discussing this in the translations & manuscripts forum. Give it a read through and a search; you will learn quite a bit there.


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## puritanpilgrim (Mar 21, 2011)

> The ESV and other modern versions use the Critical Text, not the Majority Text. (Aaron, I'm thinking you probably meant to type Critical instead of Majority.) No significant translation uses the Majority Text, although most of the differences between the Majority Text and the Textus Receptus are noted in the NKJV. The Majority Text and Textus Receptus are very similar except in Revelation.


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