# This may sound crazy to ask



## ReformedWretch (Sep 13, 2006)

But as I am locked into debate with a Jewish person who claims Christ as his Savior and Messiah yet NOT God I wonder, can such a person be saved? I do not believe so, at all. However, I post this here to make sure I am correct in that stance.

Here is the thread I am debating him in. Though I am soon going to walk away from him.

If you enter the thread, you may want to use the drop down box and the top to change the posts from oldest to newest to newest to oldest.

http://www.dittytalk.com/view_post.php?main_cat=13&sub_cat=64&post_id=740


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## LadyFlynt (Sep 13, 2006)

Not God?! Are they denying Christ's Deity?


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## jaybird0827 (Sep 13, 2006)

Hi Adam - I cannot look at your thread right now - but if I understand your question correctly, then the answer is "no way!". Your friend is resting on a false Christ.


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## LadyFlynt (Sep 13, 2006)

I second your "good grief!"


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> Not God?! Are they denying Christ's Deity?



Yes, this one person is and he is leading a few inmature believers down his path as I struggle to confront all of his out of context passages! I am used to facing Jahovah Witnesses on this issue, but not a Jew who claims Christ as Savior but not God. It's weird!


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## LadyFlynt (Sep 13, 2006)

I have never heard of a messianic that believed that way.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 13, 2006)

Me either! It's almost like he's a messianic Jahovah witness. The one girl Jessi is being influenced by his foolishness too.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 13, 2006)

There is a younger Josh speaking to what I am speaking to more calmly. You humble me Josh

[Edited on 9-13-2006 by houseparent]


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 13, 2006)

question

I know it's there, but where exactly does the OLD testement teach of Christ setting aside his position in Heaven and coming to earth as a man?


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## gravertom (Oct 17, 2006)

How about this one:

Micah 5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting.

Or:

Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. 

Hope that helps some, although you may be looking for something else that hasn't occured to me yet.

take care,

Tom


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## RamistThomist (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> question
> 
> I know it's there, but where exactly does the OLD testement teach of Christ setting aside his position in Heaven and coming to earth as a man?



Well, if he accepts Christ as his savior (his position is still problematic but go with me on this one) would he accept New Testament revelation? I will assume he doesn't for the moment. If he does, Romans 9:5 ascribes deity to the Son.

Psalms 2 and 110 speak of God speaking to God, in the context of the Messianic King.

Daniel 7 speaks of the Son of Man in terms that unless the Son of Man was indeed God, the terms would be blasphemy. 

Joshua (4 or 5) identifies the Angel of the Lord as God yet distinct from God.


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## BJClark (Oct 18, 2006)

houseparent,

I know this isn't really your question, but something to maybe consider--

Genesis 1:3

God said let their be light...

Who or what is the light God is refering to in that passage?

It can't be the sun, moon and stars because they were not created until the forth day of creation.

Now if we look to John Chapter 1, Jesus is talking about being the Light of the world. 

So isn't HE the light God spoke of in Genesis 1:3?

and this one--
Prov. 8:22-23 "The LORD brought me forth as the first of his works, before his deeds of old; I was appointed from eternity, from the beginning, before the world began.

Again that takes us back to Genesis...



here are some others:

Gen. 3:15 And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your seed and her seed; he will crush your head, and you will strike his heel."

SUBJECT:
The Messiah wouldn't just pop into existence, descend from heaven, etc. He would be supernaturally born of a woman (Notice: women don't have seed but rather egg).

Fulfillment/NT:
Rom. 16:20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Gal. 4:4 But when the fullness of time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under law,
Matt. 1:20 But after he had considered this, an angel of the Lord appeared to him in a dream and said, "Joseph son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary home as your wife, because what is conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.

Psa. 69:8 I am a stranger to my brothers, an alien to my own mother's sons; 

John 7:5 For even his own brothers did not believe in him. 

Psa. 72:10 The kings of Tarshish and of distant shores will bring tribute to him; the kings of Sheba and Seba will present him gifts.
Is. 60:6 Herds of camels will cover your land, young camels of Midian and Ephah. And all from Sheba will come, bearing gold and incense and proclaiming the praise of the LORD.

Matt. 2:1,11 After Jesus was born in Bethlehem in Judea, during the time of King Herod, Magi from the east came to Jerusalem ... On coming to the house, they saw the child with his mother Mary, and they bowed down and worshiped him. Then they opened their treasures and presented him with gifts of gold and of incense and of myrrh.

Is. 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.

Matt. 1:18 This is how the birth of Jesus Christ came about: His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be with child through the Holy Spirit.


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 18, 2006)

Adam,

The attached are notes that John Frame sent me a couple of years ago that he used to help himself organize the Doctrine of God. If you scroll down a bit, the Biblical necessity of the Trinity is laid out in rich detail.

Only fools deny Christ's divinity. It is all over Scripture.


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 18, 2006)

Too big. I reformatted it. You can download it here:

http://www.solideogloria.com/puritanboard/TriuneGod.pdf

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by SemperFideles]


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 18, 2006)

Thanks Rich!

And btw, I thought Navy Seal rescue swimmers said OOH-RAH! At least that's what "The Guardian" taught me


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