# Greenville Presbyterian Seminary



## lightandheat (Sep 7, 2008)

I've heard a lot of good things about Greenville from people I know and from what I've read on this website. After looking at their course program, I was a bit surprised to notice that while other Presbyterian seminaries such as Covenant, Westminster, and RTS include a few OT/NT courses that focus on different divisions in Scripture (e.g.- Pentateuch, Psalms & Wisdom Books, Gospels, Pauline Epistles), I noticed that Greenville doesn't offer any classes like that aside from OT/NT Biblical Theology.

For those who attend there, why is that? And is that a possible deficiency in the program?

Also, for those who are taking/have taken that homiletics courses at GPTS, what was your experience taking them? What kind of preaching model do they teach and promote? How many sermons does each MDIV student preach while at Greenville?

I am praying about transferring seminaries and Greenville is my #1 choice right now, so I am trying to do as much background work as I can.

Any insight/help is appreciated!


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 7, 2008)




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## Contra_Mundum (Sep 7, 2008)

Extra courses in various books or genre's often indicates an attempt by the schools to acknowledge or address the impact of certain forms of BT, and the idea that there are a variety of "theologies" in the Bible, the theology of this guy, or that guy.

I don't think GPTS has anything against such courses, as such. However, I think they are a kind of "specialty" course. Greenville doesn't do many electives, so there isn't much room for those courses in the curriculum. There are survey courses on the Bible, besides the comprehensive BT courses. They have a small faculty, and those few men teach the necessary courses, and there isn't much time left over for narrower fields of interest on which a prof wants to teach a class.

The place to get focus on certain books or areas, would be in the chapels. Dr. Pipa used to be preaching through various books weekly--that's a 13 week, 1 hour seminary course on a book, at the same time it is modeling preaching. He would both preach his material, as well as be getting it ready for publication. What more do you need? Quizzes? Tests? Final? Just listen carefully and take notes.

That is not to say that such a study, with a brilliant seminary prof, isn't a "good" thing. Chances are, though, you will soon be able to read his lectures in a book or commentary. If you go to Greenville, just go to chapels, and read commentaries. 

I think its a legitimate question: how will an in-depth look at one Bible book, or a collection of books, prepare a man to minister? Should it be the Pentateuch? Why? Should it be Acts? Why? If no book in the Bible should be neglected, then should he do them all? Isn't that "Bible College" and not Seminary? What are you missing, other than a chance to study Apocalyptic Lit with your favorite prof?

OTOH, if GPTS added faculty, you might see more specialty offerings there than you do today.

GPTS tries to inculcate a preaching style that is faithful to the text, preaches Christ, and makes application. Pretty standard stuff in the Reformed tradition. I'm not sure they have a "model" as such, unless it's "doctrinal", due to the school's profession to Confessional distinctives. WSC sells itself as the school that "preaches Christ from all the Scriptures" which can seem like a "model" to some people. But frankly, apart from specialists who analyze this stuff, there's hardly any discernible difference between Hywel Jones (@ WSC) teaching you to preach, and John Carrick (D.Min, WSC) and Joey Pipa (former WSC prof) teaching you.

Classes-wise, you can expect to prepare and deliver half-a-dozen to a dozen sermons during your stay at GPTS. And that's probably not far off from an average across the board at reformed seminaries. No matter where you go, professors only have so much time to teach you and critique you--and all the rest of your classmates--during you stay with them. You should look for outside avenues to build up preaching experience, no matter where you go to school.

Finally, what I always say is this: wherever you go to school, be prepared to make the experience work. Don't go to School someplace and expect to be cranked out the other end "minister material" because of the "inputs". There is no shortcut to making seminary be what it ought to be. No magic "seminary dust" that will make you what you need to be. Seminary gives you tools, if you are man enough to pick them up and use them.

May God bless you, Danny, in your search for the best school to fit you. I'd like to think that GPTS would be that place.


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## CharlieJ (Sep 8, 2008)

lightandheat said:


> I've heard a lot of good things about Greenville from people I know and from what I've read on this website. After looking at their course program, I was a bit surprised to notice that while other Presbyterian seminaries such as Covenant, Westminster, and RTS include a few OT/NT courses that focus on different divisions in Scripture (e.g.- Pentateuch, Psalms & Wisdom Books, Gospels, Pauline Epistles), I noticed that Greenville doesn't offer any classes like that aside from OT/NT Biblical Theology.
> 
> For those who attend there, why is that? And is that a possible deficiency in the program?



I am a current GPTS student. 

My undergrad was structured along biblical-literary lines, so I took a course in each major genre/section of Scripture. I found it very helpful, because it allows me to understand the diversity of hermeneutical and homiletical material throughout the Bible. 

However, as has been said, no school can do everything. My undergrad was pretty poor at systematic theology - a little skepticism, a lot of gaps. I am going to GPTS, a school that I think has an extremely strong systematic (and historical) department, to make up some of the deficiencies of my own education.

Though I am not taking the full curriculum (MA student), I believe that many of the biblical-literary issues are dealt with in the survey and preaching classes. I know the exegesis classes do a good job of bringing out hermeneutical considerations such as epistolary structure and Hebrew poetry. 

Would you learn more if you could take a full battery of biblical-literary courses? Sure. But, the curriculum is already 4 years, and you have to say "enough" at some point. My personal opinion is that the seminary has a very strong systematic department that is appropriately informed by exegetical, biblical and historical theology. 

I think you're better off with a good grasp of ancient languages and a full-orbed systematic understanding of Scripture than with a lot of literary and hermeneutical dots that never quite get connected.


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## lightandheat (Sep 8, 2008)

Bruce and Charlie, I appreciate the responses. I have a couple other questions as well:

1) What are the professors like?
2) What is student life like?
3) How many students attend GPTS?
4) What is Greenville (city) like?
5) Does Greenville being unaccredited hurt someone in the future when be considered as a pastor (vs. a student out of Covenant, RTS, or WTS) or if I were to pursue Ph.D studies?

Thanks again!


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## DMcFadden (Sep 8, 2008)

Danny,

It all depends on where you want to do your PhD studies. Harvard? You might have some questions. However, my impression is that ARTS recognition is widely accepted in Reformed circles. GPTS has been gaining reputation and boasts of being voted "best Reformed Seminary in the U.S. by the Warfield List" (for whatever that means) followed by WS-Cal, WTS, RTS Jackson, and WTS.

Interestingly, when my wife and I were on our 3.5 mile walk last night, we were discussing seminary and I said that if it were possible to do over again, GPTS would be my number one choice.


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## CDM (Sep 8, 2008)

lightandheat said:


> Bruce and Charlie, I appreciate the responses. I have a couple other questions as well:
> 
> 1) What are the professors like?
> 2) What is student life like?
> ...



See this thread:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f55/greenville-presbterian-theological-seminary-36512/


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## lightandheat (Sep 8, 2008)

Chris, what has been your experience with GPTS so far?


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## Archlute (Sep 8, 2008)

I would have a problem with a seminary that omitted that much of a standard Biblical Studies curriculum. What we undertook at WSC would not fit under "specialty courses" or have been seen as elective work. Nor was there a problem having both a full range of systematics courses alongside the bib studies coursework. 

Without an ongoing, semester by semester, working through of the background studies, genres, and details of the books you will have a poor groundwork laid for dealing with many of the issues that come up in modern commentaries and academic journals, or for understanding the books/sections as a whole for your own preaching. Listening to the preaching of other profs, no matter how good, is not a fitting substitute for working through these things on your own for the good of your own preaching and teaching.

What our studies at WSC allowed for was a) working through the Greek and Hebrew of all of the various books and genres of Scripture on a weekly basis throughout the entire course of studies, thus keeping your languages sharp and allowing you to get a sense of the nuances of language use in the various periods in which the OT was written; b) getting into important issues within each of the books/genres such as the various debates on the "Servant songs" of Isaiah, or a detailed engagement with the New Perspectives on Paul during classes on the Pauline Epistles - likewise, the General Epistles and Revelation coursework allowed for detailed discussion of the _huge_ issues of the impact of the epistle to the Hebrews upon hermeneutics, typology, and preaching, as well as in-depth studies in Revelation regarding its interpretation and the significance of its links with OT imagery such as that found within the writings of the prophet Ezekiel; and c) they correlated other coursework, such as "preaching narrative passages" or "preaching doctrinal passages" with the BS courses on OT narrative books, or NT Pauline epistles. Along with that were tied in various readings that also added to understanding apocalyptic literature, interpreting narratives, wisdom lit, etc. that laid a great foundation for understanding and preaching these portions of the Scriptures, without which one would be lacking, although by no means crippled, in their future work.

I'd first say, "big NO-GO", but then I'd also say "I'm biased".

Take it for what it's worth.


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