# Preaching Salvation



## D. Paul (Feb 9, 2010)

My title may not be a good one, but my Q is in regards to a statement I would assume we have all heard at one time or another, but one which I consider meaningless. The statement is concerning Jesus' death on the cross:
"If you were the only one on earth, He still would have died for you because He loves you that much."

That bugs me every time I hear it. Is it simply an Arminian notion? How is it the least little bit helpful? I just don't see it. The fact remains we could never know such a thing due to history and the Creation command to "Be fruitful..." 
It seems to be speculation and an emotional tug, yet it is always used to preach salvation.


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## rbcbob (Feb 9, 2010)

Apart from abstract considerations detached from reality, and the world that is, the hypothesis is dependent upon the premise that Christ died for all humanity


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## D. Paul (Feb 9, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> Apart from abstract considerations detached from reality


 
Can I use that quote?


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## MarieP (Feb 9, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> Apart from abstract considerations detached from reality, and the world that is, the hypothesis is dependent upon the premise that Christ died for all humanity



It also misses the broader context of redemptive history.

Isaiah 49:6- "Indeed He says, 'It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant to raise up the tribes of Jacob, and to restore the preserved ones of Israel; I will also give You as a light to the Gentiles, that You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.’


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## AThornquist (Feb 10, 2010)

I think some people say this sincerely in order to express the depths of God's love. Perhaps the same intent is in the heart of the preacher who juxtaposes the Lord's justice and grace in order to do the same as the first preacher, just the latter preacher does so with more wisdom and Biblical steadfastness.


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## Poimen (Feb 10, 2010)

It seems to me that the original claim is based on a subjective feeling instead of a feeling based on objective truth. Therefore the truth behind (N.B. _not_ in) the statement is buried under sentimentalism. What really matters is what God has said and what God has done: 

Romans 3:23-26 "for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,
whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus."


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## Andres (Feb 10, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> Apart from abstract considerations detached from reality, and the world that is, the hypothesis is dependent upon the premise that Christ died for all humanity


 
 the original quote reeks of unlimited atonement.


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## MarieP (Feb 10, 2010)

AThornquist said:


> I think some people say this sincerely in order to express the depths of God's love. Perhaps the same intent is in the heart of the preacher who juxtaposes the Lord's justice and grace in order to do the same as the first preacher, just the latter preacher does so with more wisdom and Biblical steadfastness.



I agree that their intentions are sincere and good. They want to divest the unconverted of the idea that God might not love them or accept them if they repent and believe, or that He really doesn't care if they don't obey Him.

You could go to John 3:16 and explain the manner in which God loves, and then go to John 6 and say that all who come to Christ will never be cast out. Go to Isaiah 55 after that, and Ezekiel 33:11. There's enough calls for repentance and faith in the Scripture, which is the power of God unto salvation, that I would think it would be *less* powerful and convicting (though God could use those words in the OP if He wanted).

---------- Post added at 09:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------

Oh yes, and also point out that God already showed mercy to the chief of sinners...

1 Timothy 1
12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord who has enabled me, because He counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry, 13 although I was formerly a blasphemer, a persecutor, and an insolent man; but I obtained mercy because I did it ignorantly in unbelief. 14 And the grace of our Lord was exceedingly abundant, with faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. 15 This is a faithful saying and worthy of all acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, of whom I am chief. 16 However, for this reason I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might show all longsuffering, as a pattern to those who are going to believe on Him for everlasting life.


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## Jack K (Feb 10, 2010)

Good topic. I'd say one good thing that quote it trying to do is to point out the personal nature of salvation. God brings each person he saves, personally and individually, into an intensely loving relationship with himself. Okay, but...

The quote supposes salvation might be limited to this, and that God would be content if this were all his salvation accomplished. What of the restoration of the world, begun already in Christ's church? What of the fellowship of the saints? Breaking down the hostility between races? Winning the nations? Calling a people who declare his praises together?

In God's good plan, his salvation is bigger because there are many of us.

Those who use the quote probably hope it will make self-centered people appreciate salvation more. But in the long run such thinking makes salvation seem smaller, and we appreciate it less.


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## rbcbob (Feb 10, 2010)

Jack K said:


> The quote supposes salvation might be limited to this, and that God would be content if this were all his salvation accomplished. What of the restoration of the world, begun already in Christ's church? What of the fellowship of the saints? Breaking down the hostility between races? Winning the nations? Calling a people who declare his praises together?
> 
> .




Excellent point Jack. Among the inummerable details missed in the quote is that of God's glory, specifically His glory *in the Church*.



> Ephesians 3:21 to Him be glory in the church by Christ Jesus to all generations, forever and ever. Amen.


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## MarieP (Feb 10, 2010)

And:

Ephesians 1
22 And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, 23 which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.

verse 23 is absolutely amazing...


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## py3ak (Feb 10, 2010)

As I've come across the idea (in H.P. Liddon, I think) it was based on Paul in Galatians affirming that "Christ loved me and gave himself for me." Paul, of course, is not ignorant of wider ramifications; but it doesn't prevent him from recognizing that Christ bore his name, specifically, in His priestly ministrations.

I've also come across a variant, where it is pointed out that the sin of each individual sinner required just this satisfaction and no other.


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## TeachingTulip (Feb 10, 2010)

py3ak said:


> As I've come across the idea (in H.P. Liddon, I think) it was based on Paul in Galatians affirming that "Christ loved me and gave himself for me." Paul, of course, is not ignorant of wider ramifications; but it doesn't prevent him from recognizing that Christ bore his name, specifically, in His priestly ministrations.
> 
> I've also come across a variant, where it is pointed out that the sin of each individual sinner required just this satisfaction and no other.



Yes, I have heard this presentation in defense of God's grace being particular and perfect.


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