# New Branding / Cosmetic Reforms



## PhillipJLee (Oct 2, 2013)

To whom it may concern:

I am sure this suggestion has come up in the past but I am wondering if the moderators of PB have considered a revamp of the brand and cosmetic look/feel of the forum? Not that the site is unappealing -- in comparison to what is readily available today for forums, however, it seems a little conservative in design. Any thoughts?

SDG


----------



## Somerset (Oct 2, 2013)

I think you will find that many of us are on the conservative side. 

I like the site the way it is: forums sensibly listed and posts listed within them. No sudden graphics or sound clips.


----------



## PhillipJLee (Oct 2, 2013)

Indeed, I don't mind the way it is now, though, the main section, in my opinion, looks slightly cluttered (I am advocate for clean, minimalist architecture and design).


----------



## Bill The Baptist (Oct 2, 2013)

One of the things that makes the PB better than many other online forums is the complete absence of advertising. Unfortunately there is a trade-off, no advertising means less revenue, which in turn means less money to pay people to do things like redesigning the website. I think most of us like the way it looks, and you can change the skin to an all-black appearance, which is very classy.


----------



## Romans922 (Oct 2, 2013)

Don't we have members who build websites, couldn't they do it for free?


----------



## KevinInReno (Oct 2, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> One of the things that makes the PB better than many other online forums is the complete absence of advertising. Unfortunately there is a trade-off, no advertising means less revenue, which in turn means less money to pay people to do things like redesigning the website. I think most of us like the way it looks, and you can change the skin to an all-black appearance, which is very classy.




So wait, PB isn't just hoarding cash for a pending sponsorship of the Super Bowl halftime show?


----------



## PhillipJLee (Oct 2, 2013)

Romans922 said:


> Don't we have members who build websites, couldn't they do it for free?



Indeed, I have some experience in web development and wouldn't mind helping out when I can with a redesign pro bono.


----------



## Jack K (Oct 2, 2013)

If only we could have flashy video graphics, with sound to boot. I'm thinking some nifty animation that takes a portrait of a famous Puritan and has him pop up on the screen and recite, oh, the five solas or something each time you log on.

Anyone else have other classy suggestions like that? Nothing cheesy, please.


(Philip, your offer sounds kind. Please don't be offended if I have a little fun with the topic.)


----------



## JoannaV (Oct 2, 2013)

What exactly is cluttered about the main section? Do you mean the front page or the forum list? I find PB to be very attractive compared to many other forums!


----------



## Scottish Lass (Oct 2, 2013)

I'll admit I have my bookmark set to just the Forum page, have most of the Forum lists hidden, and just click New Posts when the page opens. Doesn't get much more minimalist than that.


----------



## Somerset (Oct 2, 2013)

KevinInReno said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > One of the things that makes the PB better than many other online forums is the complete absence of advertising. Unfortunately there is a trade-off, no advertising means less revenue, which in turn means less money to pay people to do things like redesigning the website. I think most of us like the way it looks, and you can change the skin to an all-black appearance, which is very classy.
> ...


Only if it is played on a Saturday.

I know we have techies on here who could make the site different - but if it isn't broken, don't fix it. 

I can't speak for anyone else, but I come here for the content.


----------



## Berean (Oct 2, 2013)

Scottish Lass said:


> just click New Posts when the page opens



I have my browser and start page set to the New Posts link. Very simple and straightforward. Yet you can always go to the main forum page to look for other things, if necessary. http://www.puritanboard.com/search.php?do=getnew&contenttype=vBForum_Post


----------



## JimmyH (Oct 2, 2013)

I usually click on "todays posts" to refresh. I like the look of the forum. I like going to a worship service that sings hymns out of the hymnal, no electric guitars, loud speakers, wide screens. Just plain old church. Say that to say, I guess I'm conservative.


----------



## Edward (Oct 2, 2013)

I've just gotten used to the new design. It's updated too often for my tastes. 

And since I see that you only have a dozen posts....how much of the board are you seeing?


----------



## Unoriginalname (Oct 2, 2013)

The only issue I have ever seen with the PB is that some of the older threads are slightly corrupted.


----------



## kvanlaan (Oct 2, 2013)

Since I'm Dutch, I'd appreciate it if we'd just freeze it as is for 200-300 years, please. 

Change is of the devil.


----------



## DMcFadden (Oct 2, 2013)

I was also considering the idea of re-branding while having my weekly manicure, exfoliation, and addition of hair extensions (kindof tricky when you are bald). My twitter account was overflowing, however, and took most of my time as I am simultaneously following all of the really "hot" preachers and really popular speakers from Catalyst West, so it kept me pretty busy. Then there was my singing of the most popular praise songs of 2013, including "Great Are You Lord," "Whom Shall I Fear," "Praise the Invisible," "Open Up Our Eyes," "Victor's Crown," "Oceans," and "Beautiful Love." Then I wanted to give a "shout out" to Rich and all of the awesome admins of the Puritan Board using my JBL Church Sound System Flyable Speakers, Mixer, Wireless Microphone with 3 FREE Mics. Before getting down to the rebranding, I also needed to scarf down the fair trade Macchiato grande (not too heavy on the expresso and topped with lots of artistically presented foam) produced by the church barista in the lobby next to the humongus flat screen playing the worship band doing rockin riffs.

Now, where was I? Oh, yeah, talking about our need to rebrand and upgrade our web presence. After cracking my knuckles (can you hear them?), let's sit down and do a complete analysis of our current PB site to identify existing strengths and weaknesses, keyword research, back-end SEO integration, design refresh, optimization of blog, including installation of proper plugins, revision of existing web copy, conversion optimization, and consideration of the impact of Google Analytics. We will want to be a lead presence on the Web, a team of impact players, employing creativity that connects, delivering results, and using storytelling in an interactive, multi-platform and ongoing way. We will strive to drive people to our site so that we can move from one-way communication to creating compelling brand narratives that sell.

Or, as Steve Martin used to say in his Theodoric of York skits on SNL, "Naah. Never mind."

Actually, it is probably always a good idea to improve our web design and utility for users. Unfortunately, at my age, all of the whistles and bells are lost on me. All I want is to read the posts and be able to find old ones. But, hey, my notion of "new" ideas seems strangely fixated on persons and events in the 16th century.

If we have talent that knows how to improve our look, sure, why not? As long as I can still view it in blue with gray accents.


----------



## VictorBravo (Oct 3, 2013)

Dennis, the fact you know what all those words mean and can string them together tells me you are "with it."

I always thought rebranding was what you did to already branded cows you bought from your neighbor.




kvanlaan said:


> Since I'm Dutch, I'd appreciate it if we'd just freeze it as is for 200-300 years, please.



To rework an old joke: Ask a PB oldtimer how many PB admins or moderators it takes to change a lightbulb.



Answer: CHANGE???!!!???

To be clear, Rich, the site owner and chief technological wizard, has put a remarkable amount of work into the site. The transition to V-Bulletin was a huge improvement. I'm sure there are hundreds of hours of tweaks and fixes he's had to put into it, and it has resulted in a remarkably streamlined interface.

So I'm on the slow-to-change side, myself. 



DMcFadden said:


> As long as I can still view it in blue with gray accents.



Same here.


----------



## DMcFadden (Oct 3, 2013)

Victor,

"With it"??? Nobody has ever accused me of being "with it." Take it back, now! Remember that I have to find creative ways to spend a $21 million budget every year. Much of it goes to consultants (several law firms, auditors, marketing consultants, and web design types). They tie me to a chair, stick a hose down my throat, and force feed me a toxic brew of jargon by the gallon until I agree to let them do what they do.

Brutal. It's brutal I say!


----------



## VictorBravo (Oct 3, 2013)

DMcFadden said:


> Victor,
> 
> "With it"??? Nobody has ever accused me of being "with it." Take it back, now! Remember that I have to find creative ways to spend a $21 million budget every year. Much of it goes to consultants (several law firms, auditors, marketing consultants, and web design types). They tie me to a chair, stick a hose down my throat, and force feed me a toxic brew of jargon by the gallon until I agree to let them do what they do.
> 
> Brutal. It's brutal I say!



I have tears in my eyes, but I think it is from laughter more than sympathy, my friend.


----------



## Somerset (Oct 3, 2013)

VictorBravo said:


> I always thought rebranding was what you did to already branded cows you *bought *from your neighbor.



The wild west clearly isn't so wild anymore.


----------



## Edward (Oct 3, 2013)

Somerset said:


> VictorBravo said:
> 
> 
> > I always thought rebranding was what you did to already branded cows you bought from your neighbor.
> ...



Well, he ain't from Texas.

But speaking of the board - the quote within quote thing doesn't seem to be working right - that took a bit of manual editing.


----------



## Tim (Oct 3, 2013)

Edward said:


> Somerset said:
> 
> 
> > VictorBravo said:
> ...



My attempt....
Looks okay to me, without any editing of the code.


----------



## Edward (Oct 3, 2013)

Tim said:


> Looks okay to me, without any editing of the code.



Yes, yours came out OK.


----------



## Somerset (Oct 4, 2013)

Edward said:


> Tim said:
> 
> 
> > Looks okay to me, without any editing of the code.
> ...


Probably the way I cut the post down to the sentence I wanted to quote.

There are at least two ways to do anything technical: the right way and the Somerset way.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Oct 4, 2013)

I am in tears laughing Dennis. I am with Vic, What Do all those new terms and phrases mean? Are they in the nomenclature catalogue? I was just learning what it meant to be user-friendly! LOL


----------



## Unoriginalname (Oct 4, 2013)

The PB is sort of a niche product in the first place. Plenty of people have described us as discussing 101 proof Reformed Theology, and I think that is a good reflection of who we are. The PB's requirement for confessional subscription and church membership gives it a flavor and concentration not found in a lot of forums. I am a part of plenty of Facebook Calvinist groups which constantly remind me that Reformed and Calvinist can mean anything these days, and that it is no fun reinventing the wheel in every argument. Our forum is workable and other than what I said earlier about some old threads being corrupted or misformatted I think the PB has a great layout. We do not have needless thread bumping or self promotion, old threads are easy to find and our forums are pretty organized.


----------



## JoannaV (Oct 4, 2013)

The one thing I would change is to have a feature where *I* could re-open any old thread I wanted :B


----------



## Pergamum (Oct 4, 2013)

We need blaring MIDI music (Amazing Grace maybe) that automatically starts as soon as we open the page. 

Also, in one of the corners we need the silhouette of Billy Sunday in side-profile (one hand raising the bible in the air while the other points in accusatory fashion at a crowd below). 

Finally, we need our cursor to become a cross and to sprinkle stars in our wake as we move it about the browser page.


----------



## Pergamum (Oct 4, 2013)

We need blaring MIDI music (Amazing Grace maybe) that automatically starts as soon as we open the page. 

Also, in one of the corners we need the silhouette of Billy Sunday in side-profile (one hand raising the bible in the air while the other points in accusatory fashion at a crowd below). 

Finally, we need our cursor to become a cross and to sprinkle stars in our wake as we move it about the browser page.


----------



## Edward (Oct 4, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> We need blaring MIDI music (Amazing Grace maybe)



Only if it is sung to the tune of 'House of the Rising Sun' (and be nice, or I'll provide a youtube link.)


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Oct 4, 2013)

I rarely even look at the main forum page. Just bookmark the control panel: PB and after checking for threads I have subscribed to with responses I just select the New Posts


----------



## DMcFadden (Oct 5, 2013)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I am in tears laughing Dennis. I am with Vic, What Do all those new terms and phrases mean? Are they in the nomenclature catalogue? I was just learning what it meant to be user-friendly! LOL



The first paragraph was everything trendy that I could think of in the church work field. It helps that one of my kids pastors a large church with a coffee bar in the lobby and big screen televisions featuring the rockin rifs of the worship band.

The second paragraph with the marketing jargon consisted in stringing together all of the things I have to listen to from our web consultants. And, yes, they really talk like this. It is everything I can do to keep from laughing at them.


----------



## sevenzedek (Oct 5, 2013)

Who needs change when we have just received refurbished black and white Theologian Portraits? Isn't that enough? Besides, while the desktop version of the site has black and blue options, Tapatalk has me covered with an additional black or red theme on my iPhone that goes well with my fair-trade Macchiato. Macchiato? Scratch that. I've moved on to the mocha pot for the home brew cheap-o. If I add a little pumpkin spice for a seasonal flare, all my concerns about themes goes away anyway, but I wouldn't be opposed to a well done update. Hey! Can we have our own church sign too? Of course, the sign would need to be edited by our PB moderators who already govern the threads very well (has anyone seen the present chaos of other web forums? Run away now!). We wouldn't want anyone to get the idea that Jesus is frantically searching for Facebook likes.


----------



## PhillipJLee (Oct 7, 2013)

I wouldn't have expected a notion as updating PB to have gone any differently than it has, considering our Reformed heritage, but it is interesting to see how quickly a connection was made from technological user-friendliness to seemingly liberal ideology?



JoannaV said:


> What exactly is cluttered about the main section? Do you mean the front page or the forum list? I find PB to be very attractive compared to many other forums!



User-friendliness is sometimes subjective but I see some areas that I think could use improvement if there was an opportunity and context to seriously consider a "clean up" or revision. In my opinion, technology, unlike theology, does not always work best conservatively or traditionally -- even though there is nothing necessarily wrong with a horse and carriage, I'm sure most of us drive an automobile? I appeal to the logical inference of the illustration, nothing more


----------



## Covenant Joel (Oct 7, 2013)

PhillipJLee said:


> User-friendliness is sometimes subjective but I see some areas that I think could use improvement if there was an opportunity and context to seriously consider a "clean up" or revision. In my opinion, technology, unlike theology, does not always work best conservatively or traditionally -- even though there is nothing necessarily wrong with a horse and carriage, I'm sure most of us drive an automobile? I appeal to the logical inference of the illustration, nothing more



I'm hardly one against change or updating of technology. But perhaps you could be specific as to the changes you'd like to see? Mostly what I hear is that what we have seems to be working, so unlike a church website (which should be regularly updated and reflect current technology if possible), the forum is laid out in an easy to use manner. I similarly just use the "New Posts" feature to check things here. 

But if you gave some specific examples or a sample somewhere else online, perhaps PB members would be more interested in the idea.


----------



## Edward (Oct 7, 2013)

If you wanted to do something helpful, you might work on the plug in for the 'Helpful' button. In the old days, it would show who clicked it and give credit for a post. That was lost in one of the upgrades to the underlying software, and it's certainly beyond my skill level.


----------



## jogri17 (Oct 7, 2013)

Somerset said:


> I like the site the way it is: forums sensibly listed and posts listed within them. No sudden graphics or sound clips.



Sudden graphics or sound clips? I haven't seen those on sites since the early 00s.


----------



## Scottish Lass (Oct 7, 2013)

Edward said:


> If you wanted to do something helpful, you might work on the plug in for the 'Helpful' button. In the old days, it would show who clicked it and give credit for a post. That was lost in one of the upgrades to the underlying software, and it's certainly beyond my skill level.



I thought that was disabled on purpose?


----------



## Somerset (Oct 7, 2013)

jogri17 said:


> Somerset said:
> 
> 
> > I like the site the way it is: forums sensibly listed and posts listed within them. No sudden graphics or sound clips.
> ...


When you enter the site of one of my competitors, a pink butterfly flits across the screen. "Flit" is being optimistic - takes for ever to load.


----------



## anotherpilgrim (Oct 7, 2013)

I would agree with Philip that the board could use a bit of redesigning. 

And I don't mean it needs anything flashy and colorful; I mean mostly with regard to typography.

The main content of this board is words, and I have to admit, with the current typography of the board design, it was very hard for me to read through and follow long posts and discussions.

After a while, I actually installed a browser plugin called 'Stylish' which let's us on your own computer restyle websites the way you want, and I've tweaked a few things to help the readability for me personally. 

I'll try to post pictures of what I mean with regard to readability; it may be better to show than tell in this case =)


----------



## anotherpilgrim (Oct 8, 2013)

So, as an example, see if this is easier to read / skim. 

Before:
Imageshack - vtg8.png
or 
http://imageshack.us/a/img43/9093/vtg8.png


Updated typography:
Imageshack - msh5.png
or 
http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/4449/msh5.png


Then again, maybe I'm just spoiled and a bit too picky =)


----------



## Logan (Oct 8, 2013)

Anish,

I will say that your layout looks easier to read. Sometimes I shrink the width on my browser because if there are really long posts I have a hard time reading (lines are too long). Looks like you've got it down to about 60 characters or so?


----------



## Unoriginalname (Oct 8, 2013)

anotherpilgrim said:


> So, as an example, see if this is easier to read / skim.
> 
> Before:
> Imageshack - vtg8.png
> ...



I am not a fan of the bottom two's fonts. I will admit though I like the top 2.


----------



## Edward (Oct 8, 2013)

anotherpilgrim said:


> So, as an example, see if this is easier to read / skim.
> 
> Before:
> Imageshack - vtg8.png
> ...



For one and 3 I get two white rectangles with a vertical bar between them; for two and four, the rectangles are black.

They may be using some sort of scripting that I block.


----------



## Scottish Lass (Oct 8, 2013)

Edward said:


> They may be using some sort of scripting that I block.


Possibly. I got a tiny vertical line on the left of my screen, but when I hovered over it, I saw the magnifying glass. Once I clicked it, it enlarged to "normal viewing."


----------



## VictorBravo (Oct 8, 2013)

Edward said:


> For one and 3 I get two white rectangles with a vertical bar between them; for two and four, the rectangles are black.



That's 'cause they are images. Screenshots, essentially.

It is a personal preference situation. I don't like Anish's improved versions, but I'm sure it is simply personal preference. It's the same reason I could never warm up to Firefox as a browser over the years. The font layout bothered me too much.


----------

