# The Impact of Arminianism and Deism on how the Gospel is preached by Evangelicals.



## Anton Bruckner (Feb 4, 2005)

Larry King had Tim Lahaye/Beverly Lahaye, T.D Jakes, Franklin Grahm on his show on Tuesday. Here is a partial transcript

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/01/lkl.01.html
KING: If you're predicting the AntiChrist, do we have a choice? You're saying it's fact. 
*
JAKES: Larry, could I make a comment? I think what we're confusing here is predestination with foreknowledge. The Bible is not saying that God is going to make this happen, it is that God already has some knowledge to know what is going to happen, like someone who has seen a movie before someone else has seen it, they know what's going to happen, it's not that they make it happen. So it's not our free will is taken away any time we read a prophesy, our God is omniscient, he already knows the end from the beginning. *

KING: Therefore, Reverend, how can I have free will if the AntiChrist is coming no matter what I do? 

LAHAYE: We're talking about government. There are three things that are going to be the hallmark of the last days when -- after Christ raptures the church and the church goes through the tribulation. As Franklin said, we'll have a one world commercial system, we'll have one world government and we'll have a one world religion. Now, that's after all the Christians are taken out. And so the world will function that way. But still, God will give people an individual opportunity to receive Christ.


Here is webster's definition.
of Deism
Main Entry: de·ism 
Pronunciation: 'dE-"i-z&m, 'dA-
Function: noun
Usage: often capitalized
: a movement or system of thought advocating natural religion, emphasizing morality, and in the 18th century denying the interference of the Creator with the laws of the universe


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## hhtuck (Feb 4, 2005)

*I\'m glad I didn\'t see that part...*

... because I probably would have thrown my shoe through the TV.


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## Bladestunner316 (Feb 4, 2005)

he's only watching a movie


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## Anton Bruckner (Feb 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by hhtuck_
> ... because I probably would have thrown my shoe through the TV.


:bigsmile: do you secretly have a plasma on your wishlist for Christmas? 

Anyway I hear where you are coming from. As soon as my friend told me that they were on, I already committed myself not to listen to it because of what I would hear. I am not a good controller of my emotions when I hear people speaking foolishness.


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## Larry Hughes (Feb 5, 2005)

Deism, I think, early on opened the door way for evolution and ultimately atheism/agnosticism. Because fundamentally it "disconnected God" and offers a god up that is nothing more than a divine watch maker who winds up the watch (the universe) and lets it go.

By disconnecting God, so to speak, we then as a whole turned to science to investigate the phenomena (from our end of the disconnect) in order find out if there is a god at all and where is he and who are we, why are we here? Slowly over time this 'evolves' into looking at the processes to 'seek' god. Eventually, we get completely off of track and before long we begin asking questions like, "If there is a god then how did he do this?", thereby making God subservient to the universe and its laws (which in reality He created and is sovereign over) AND manifesting our real desire which is to continually supress the truth in unrighteousness. As this builds over generations and time the deistic god is increasingly taken out of the picture as viable or existing at all and eventually we arrive at a purely mechanisitic universe, atheism, evolution, etc... 

Charles Darwin was a deist.

This is the danger of 'seeking God' other than the cross where He may be found.


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## future expatriate (Feb 6, 2005)

That movie analogy is probably the worst I have ever heard. Perhaps Jakes avoided an affirmation of full foreknowledge because that would, in fact, point to God's foreknowledge being causitive, i.e. predestination?

If I may, a system of theology based on such belief:

God is omnicient => However, God has only _some_ knowledge of the future => Therefore, God is not truly omnicient => Therefore, man, exercising free will, can thwart God=> Man can do as he pleases.


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## Average Joey (Feb 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Slippery_
> Larry King had Tim Lahaye/Beverly Lahaye, T.D Jakes, Franklin Grahm on his show on Tuesday. Here is a partial transcript
> 
> http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0502/01/lkl.01.html
> ...



If you posted this on RR,they would want your head


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## Anton Bruckner (Feb 6, 2005)

Fully agree with you Larry, its amazing the force that The englightenment period of the 1700's and 1800's exerts on the Gospel in that the Gospel confirms itself to the prevailing philosophies of the society, until so much that one cannot differentiate the Gospel from the erroneous philosophy and preachers go around preaching a crude hybrid of Ecclesiastical secularism and no one is the wiser.

We end up with a God in heaven, who sent His Son to die, hoping that people will believe on Him, instead of sending His Son to die and drawing and justifying those whom He wants for Himself. 

Hi Joey, of course they would have my head for that. :bigsmile: what is even more worse is that Tim Lahaye constrains every single bad event that occurs over a certain magnitude into his eschatological constructs. Compare what Lahaye says to what Jesus says. Jesus used tragedy as a means to warn people to repent least they likewise perish Luke 13. LaHaye uses tragedy as a means to tell people of the rapture and his erroneous interpretations of Matthew 24. And of course not being prepared for the rapture you will get a second chance through the tirbulation. Only thing is the tribulation is like second class seats and the rapture is first class seats. Funny thing is, one can die before the supposed rapture and go to hell, so where is the effect of constraining tragedy to dispensationalist eschatology. This is what happens when man preaches fantasy than reality.

The dogmatism of this rapture talk has blinded people to the lurking dangers that they can die at any given moment and be consumed by the wrath of God for their unbelief and sin.


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## Average Joey (Feb 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Slippery_
> Fully agree with you Larry, its amazing the force that The englightenment period of the 1700's and 1800's exerts on the Gospel in that the Gospel confirms itself to the prevailing philosophies of the society, until so much that one cannot differentiate the Gospel from the erroneous philosophy and preachers go around preaching a crude hybrid of Ecclesiastical secularism and no one is the wiser.
> 
> We end up with a God in heaven, who sent His Son to die, hoping that people will believe on Him, instead of sending His Son to die and drawing and justifying those whom He wants for Himself.
> ...



Are you still a member over there(RR)?I didn`t see your name listed anymore.
Yeah we can also tell Lahaye that we thought we are living our second chance already.Adam fell and God gave grace to us an opportunity for salvation.


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## Anton Bruckner (Feb 7, 2005)

Lets say that my political views were too strong and I got accused of hijacking threads because of my differing opinions.


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## LadyFlynt (Feb 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Slippery_
> Lets say that my political views were too strong and I got accused of hijacking threads because of my differing opinions.


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## Average Joey (Feb 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Slippery_
> Lets say that my political views were too strong and I got accused of hijacking threads because of my differing opinions.



U2U me the last posts.Joey curious hehehehe.


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## Average Joey (Feb 7, 2005)

Nevermind Slip.I found it. It just took some searching.Ah Becky of course!


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## Anton Bruckner (Feb 7, 2005)

I've learned my lesson. "Never disagree with the Evangelical Right on Politics on their own Turf".


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