# Men's Fashionable Clothing - is it sinful?



## Lincolnshire Paul (Nov 17, 2009)

This isn't a joke post, but there's a topic which I've become recently very interested in. As I grow up and advance into becoming a man in comparison to being a boy (Some that, with all due respect to my parents, they never really made me work on), I've recently started to want to dress as such.

I don't care about fashion but I happen to like white clothing. For instance, I recently bought a pair of white leather shoes (don't laugh, they look great) and am planning on buying some white trousers (I need new ones badly anyway) as well as perhaps a pastel shirt (Please refrain from Benny Hinn jokes  ). Is it sinful and fleshly to want to look nicely presented? 

I know also on the topic of wasting money, and although i don't want to seem like I'm trying to justify myself, new clothes are something I really need to acquire. 


What do the PB and more spiritually discerning among us think?

Sincerely, 
Paul


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## Wayne (Nov 17, 2009)

The Puritans actually had a good bit to say about clothing. I don't have sources at hand at the moment to cite references, but perhaps someone else can point you to some selected reading.


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## LawrenceU (Nov 17, 2009)

Most of what I see touted today as 'fashion' for men is feminised. Just give me a well tailored suit, a sport coat, a nice pair of chinos or other khakis, a couple of dress shirts, a couple of sport shirts, a couple of polo shirts, and of course my Wranglers and boots.

Seriously, much of what I see as fashion, even if not feminised is a waste of money. Next year it will not be fashionable.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 17, 2009)

I have difficulty in seeing good stewardship in purchasing clothes that will not wear out before the fad has passed. But I'm a throwback.

Also, keeping up with the cutting edge of fashion is quite often a manifestation of vanity (and these days looks kinda girly, as my mountain-man brother has just stated).

I don't think dressing like the Amish is the way to go either (you're still drawing attention to yourself there, just in another way) but I dress for comfort and function first. Cords, a wool shirt, and heavy grey socks is what I'm wearing now because it is cold out. Nothing flashy, but neither so antiquated as to be odd.


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## Mushroom (Nov 17, 2009)

Aw,c'mon guys... you mean I have to put away my sequined bell-bottoms and blue suede platforms?


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## Wayne (Nov 17, 2009)

Yep. Put 'em away. Now. Please.


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## Andres (Nov 17, 2009)

Absolutely nothing wrong with buying new clothes if you need them. You have to wear clothes for many reasons. I do see a problem with wanting to dress to impress others or to keep up with the latest fashions because then you run the risk of conforming to this world. Many of the current "popular" fashions seek to glorify the flesh. I am sure you do not desire to do this, so I would suggest opting for something more simple and conservative. 
Finally, you state that you desire is to begin dressing more like a "man". Well brother, I hate to break it to you, but white leather shoes, white trousers, and a pastel shirt are not very manly in my opinion and all the men of God that I respect do not wear these kind of outfits.


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## BertMulder (Nov 17, 2009)

Lincolnshire Paul said:


> I don't care about fashion but I happen to like white clothing. For instance, I recently bought a pair of white leather shoes (don't laugh, they look great) and am planning on buying some white trousers



I am assuming you do not have little kids....

Otherwise, you do not have white pants or shoes. They will make sure of that.


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## Mushroom (Nov 17, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Fashionable clothing is definitely of the devil.


Oh yeah, this from the guy with that ultra-suave ball cap.

Admit it, Josh, you're a dedicated follower of fashion.


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## jfschultz (Nov 17, 2009)

Lincolnshire Paul said:


> I don't care about fashion but I happen to like white clothing. For instance, I recently bought a pair of white leather shoes (don't laugh, they look great) and am planning on buying some white trousers (I need new ones badly anyway)



Add a white shirt, navy blue tie, and a blue blazer and you'll fit right in at a yacht club.


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## Berean (Nov 17, 2009)




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## Mushroom (Nov 17, 2009)

Berean said:


>


Stylin' and profilin'!

But note that he's sitting on the floor in his nice whites. Things might not be so stylish when viewed from behind after that.


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## Rogerant (Nov 17, 2009)

I believe that one should dress with reverance in respect of coming before the King. Your dress should not draw attention to yourself however. I really do not know how dressing in white leather shoes and white trousers will not draw attention to yourself, unless of course your want to sell cars or work at WKRP.


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## AThornquist (Nov 17, 2009)

If you can responsibly afford to look snazzy, there is nothing wrong with it unless you are trying to draw attention to yourself. I dress quite nicely for work and am constantly called dapper among other things, but I really just like to wear good clothing and ties. I don't care much for the vain praise. So if this is a matter of simply your dress preferences and it fits within your budget, go for it.

Just please don't dress like Pat Boone -_-


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## Zenas (Nov 17, 2009)

I wear timeless clothing. My wardrobe consists of the following:

Jeans
Shorts
Polo Shirts (About 15-20. I tend to get 2-3 new ones every year and then keep using them until they fall apart. They NEVER go out of style.)
White and Blue Button-Down shirts.
Blue/Black/Charcoal/Searsucker suits
Blazer/Sportcoat
Khakis

That's it.


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## ubermadchen (Nov 17, 2009)

I think y'all might be forgetting that this dude is from Dubai. It's a bit of a warmer climate than we may be used to. Maybe that's the fashion there.


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## Andres (Nov 17, 2009)

ubermadchen said:


> I think y'all might be forgetting that this dude is from Dubai. It's a bit of a warmer climate than we may be used to. Maybe that's the fashion there.



My father lives in Saudi Arabia (near Dubai) and he certainly doesn't dress in the white on white on lavender. Neither do any of the guys I have ever seen with him in pics.


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## VictorBravo (Nov 17, 2009)

Vic's fashion guide.

First, here is how I dressed back in my youth when I was trying to impress people:






I outgrew that phase after I discovered Oxford shirts and showers.

My wardrobe now is very straightforward. Oxford button-down shirts and chinos are the foundation. When the Oxford shirts get worn around the collar, I wear them as messing-around grub shirts.

As you can tell from the first picture, I used to be a model. I dug out some of my old poses for these recent shots:

Business blue shirt, good for warming up the opposition in negotiations:






Business white--what I always wear on our office's "casual Friday."






Going to court, I toss on a tie and a jacket. (Note: the wrinkled tie adds to the fashion mystique--it's a nod to Seattle grundge--also, still wearing chinos and the standard Oxford shirt)





Exercise wear. Brown Chinos, Oxford shirt, and standard cowboy boots (not pictured).






For odd jobs around the house, Oxford shirts are common, but when you are smashing mortar walls or destroying kitchens, a denim shirt is more in style. 






And finally, after a long day of whatever, a glass of wine, Oxford shirt, chinos, boots, and, for a touch of homey-warmth, a hand spun wool vest knitted by my wife.






There you have it. Everything you need to set the fashion trends in the Pacific NW. The cool thing about my approach to fashion is I usually don't need to know if colors match nor do I need a mirror. . . .


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## Lincolnshire Paul (Nov 17, 2009)

Andres said:


> ubermadchen said:
> 
> 
> > I think y'all might be forgetting that this dude is from Dubai. It's a bit of a warmer climate than we may be used to. Maybe that's the fashion there.
> ...



Well, let's just say you can get away with more. As the economy develops, conspicuous consumption among the younger generation decreases somewhat clothing wise. Westerners here though (except Russians) generally dress as if they got their clothing from a dumpster whilst the older arab generation likes to look rich.


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## ubermadchen (Nov 17, 2009)

Alls I gots to say is that I'm thankful to be a girl. I love waking up in the morning and thinking "Gee, I think I'll wear a skirt today. Or maybe a dress. Or maybe capris, or jeans, or pants, or somethingorother..." Having to choose between a white oxford shirt and a blue jean shirt just sounds depressing


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## Andres (Nov 17, 2009)

ubermadchen said:


> Alls I gots to say is that I'm thankful to be a girl. I love waking up in the morning and thinking "Gee, I think I'll wear a skirt today. Or maybe a dress. Or maybe capris, or jeans, or pants, or somethingorother..." Having to choose between a white oxford shirt and a blue jean shirt just sounds depressing



No it's not, its quite liberating actually. If you really feel that way, you would hate my closet as it consists of all of about 5 polos, and 4 dress shirts. I wear a uniform to work and when lounging around home I rotate through about 4 t-shirts. Will I ever be on the cover of GQ magazine? Nope. Would I want to be? nope. Do I ever try to impress anyone with my looks, outside of my wife? Nope. I am content with my life as far as the clothing category goes, although I will confess I have been wanting to get a cardigan sweater because I think they are the coolest!

Oh, how could I forget - I have an awesome DeMarcus Ware Dallas Cowboys jersey that I like to bust out for game time.


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## Wayne (Nov 17, 2009)

ubermadchen said:


> Having to choose between a white oxford shirt and a blue jean shirt just sounds depressing



It is depressing. That's why guys are usually grumpy. . . 'cept when they're wearing kilts:



Edit: Okay, somebody educate me--how do you embed a photo?
Edit2: Oops. I see now. 

. . . nevermind!


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## Mushroom (Nov 17, 2009)

Yes, Vic has proven himself to be the PB fashion guru. I especially dig the versatile eyeware in the first pic, and the stylishly turned up _one side _of the collar on the denim shirt is a very debonair touch.


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## Philip (Nov 17, 2009)

If wasting money is a problem, thrift shopping is an option--where else can I get a Brooks suit or Harris Tweed sportcoat for five bucks?

My advice is to ask this: will I look back on it and think it looked silly? Oxford shirts, plain slacks, sport coats, and leather shoes will never be out of style. Plus, on the upside, they wear like iron if they're well-made.

Vic, I must say that's a very stylish vest.


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## a mere housewife (Nov 17, 2009)

From a woman's point of view: I tend to mistrust men whose clothes as it were, go before them, smiting one with their projected self-image. If Vic and Pat Boone were at hand during a global disaster, I think we would mostly turn to Vic in Oxford Shirt And Chinos, however much we might recall Pat Boone's outfit fondly, and with the rare camaraderie of those who have suffered together, if we survived. (& in this case, it would actually be Vic who could save us -- Lauren has told us various things about his hobbies.) 

The sort of people I find generally worthy of imitation value clothing for durability, comfortability, economy, appropriateness etc; whereas popular trendsetters seem to value clothes _regardless_ of those factors, presumably for self image. (Incidentally I think one can have a self image of 'I don't care about anything in clothes but what_ I_ like' even if that isn't *stylishness*, which would still be catering to self?)



> If wasting money is a problem, thrift shopping is an option



Yes: though I prefer new clothes for practical reasons like durability, I prefer to actually purchase at thrift stores simply because I hate the idea of contributing money directly to a system that supports so much slave labor in various parts of the world (and I feel only well informed enough on the subject to not be able to trust brands in my price range at this point).


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## darrellmaurina (Nov 18, 2009)

Lincolnshire Paul said:


> This isn't a joke post, but there's a topic which I've become recently very interested in. As I grow up and advance into becoming a man in comparison to being a boy (Some that, with all due respect to my parents, they never really made me work on), I've recently started to want to dress as such.



I wonder if some of the responses may be missing what I see as the key part of Paul's comment: dressing like a man and not like a boy.

I know I'm old-fashioned here (one of my news media colleagues told me that my avatar photo looks like I should be sitting in front of a manual Underwood typewriter, not a computer) but I do think the youth-oriented culture of the 1960s has become so ingrained in American practice that even in conservative Reformed circles we don't always teach the importance of acting and dressing like an adult. I'm old enough to remember when Young Republicans on college campuses sometimes made a very deliberate point of wearing ties and dress slacks so they **DIDN'T** look like the hippies. We all know that's not the way lots of conservative kids do things today -- I've seen everything up to and including flip-flops and torn-up blue jeans worn by even the most conservative Reformed kids, and not only in college classes but also in church and at weddings.

I'd like to ask, "How do these people think they are going to get a job?"

But the reality is that when they graduate at age 22, they can probably get hired by someone who is five years older than them, dresses about the same way, and reports to a top boss who graduated in 1968 and only dresses up when he's forced to do so.

Obviously, if you work on a construction site, "dressing like an adult" means something very different from what it means to work in an office environment. And equally obviously, we are forbidden by the Word of God to look down on people who truly cannot afford anything but their torn jeans to wear to church.

But in too many cases, people don't dress that way because they don't have enough money -- they dress that way because they have bought into at least some of the anti-authoritarian and egalitarian teachings of our age.

Perhaps we could be encouraging the brother in his desire to learn more about proper attire.

Among the most basic questions I would ask if I were in his shoes are these:

1. Am I living beyond my means in buying expensive clothes? If so, then unless they are true necessities (i.e., buying an appropriate suit and tie for an interview), they ought not to be purchased.

2. Am I buying an expensive name brand when I can buy the same clothes at the same quality for less cost? If so, unless it is essential to "dress to impress," as it is in some sales jobs, Christian principles of frugality require buying something other than the name brand. (And that applies just as much to name-brand jeans and name-brand shoes as it does to suits, by the way.)

3. Am I buying clothes because I enjoy showing off my nice clothes, or because I am dressing in the appropriate attire for my job, or outside of work, for whatever I'm doing at the moment? Motive counts, and you need to guard yourself against doing the right thing for the wrong reason.

4. Is there anything immoral or immodest about my clothing? Granted, this is more of a problem for women's fashions, but there are certain types of fashionable men's clothing that are identified with the gay lifestyle and probably should be avoided by Christians because they send a message that was not intended. And for casual clothing, some types of tight jeans and swimsuits ought to be avoided by men for the same reasons that equivalent clothing should be avoided by women.

Once those four questions are answered, all of which have biblical issues behind them, I believe the best advice for a young man in the workforce is what most women have always known: you probably want to dress for the next job you want, not the job you have right now. 

Of course, that's assuming a professional office environment, and it depends on your company culture and your work duties. Also, guys who just graduated from college can usually get away with more casual dress and more fashion mistakes than someone a bit older. Finally, the harsh truth is that men are usually judged less severely than women on their fashion sense.

However, if you're a sales representative and your goal is to be a sales manager and you notice that your company has lots of salesmen who dress casually but the ones who get promoted are the ones who dress in ways that the top boss thinks "look the part" of a sales manager, dress accordingly. It will probably help your chances.


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## Jake (Nov 18, 2009)

As a student, my wardrobe usually consists of:

Tennis shoes (my most expensive item, but it takes me a while to wear a pair out)
Jeans (not the beat up kind)
T-Shirts (no blatant advertising for companies!)
Polos
Thermal shirts for winter..

Then for other occasions I have khakis, slacks, oxford shirts, and a few other button-up shirts. Supplement with tie or coat when necessary.

And I shop at the discount stores primarily.


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## Ivan (Nov 18, 2009)

I buy good clothing at deep discounted prices. For instances, I have bought a couple of sports jackets that had the original price of over $250 dollars at about $50. Same with slacks...originally $60, discounted to $15. I think it's easy to have nice clothes at a very reasonably price.


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