# Say It Ain't So, Newt!



## Ivan (Mar 18, 2009)

John H Armstrong : Newt Gingrich to Become a Roman Catholic


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## PresbyDane (Mar 18, 2009)

great


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## Marrow Man (Mar 18, 2009)

Why are so many the "good conservatives" (or at least the neo-cons/celebrity conservatives) becoming RC?

Bill O'Reilly
Sean Hannity
Laura Ingraham
Alan Keyes
Bill Bennett
etc...


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## LawrenceU (Mar 18, 2009)

Tim, I believe that all those you listed have been life long RCs.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 18, 2009)

The Irishmen I understand, wasn't sure about Keyes, but Bennett isn't/wasn't lifelong. I thought I heard him say on this radio show that he was something mainline (Methodist I believe) and converted because his wife is RC.


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## LawrenceU (Mar 18, 2009)

I do know that Keyes has been RC for a very long time. We have a close mutual friend. I think you are right about Bennett.


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## VictorBravo (Mar 18, 2009)

The RC church is perfect for those who are lost and have discovered that their efforts at willful self-improvement have failed. All they need is something bigger, stable, and above all, traditional, to help them continue along that path.

Bennet, especially, is a good example. He wrote the book on virtue, and was exposed as not having any. I fear that Newt is following a similar path. May God save them.


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## Ivan (Mar 18, 2009)

And there is talk about Newt running for President...how will his becoming a RC play?


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## VictorBravo (Mar 18, 2009)

Ivan said:


> And there is talk about Newt running for President...how will his becoming a RC play?



Politically, it is irrelevant.


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## ZackF (Mar 18, 2009)

Marrow Man said:


> Why are so many the "good conservatives" (or at least the neo-cons/celebrity conservatives) becoming RC?
> 
> Bill O'Reilly
> Sean Hannity
> ...



Humanly speaking RCism is more appealing. Many are bone ignorant about historical Reformation theology. Many intellectuals (or people who want to be thought of as smart), are turned off by what they perceive as Protestantism. The Left often bags on the Pope and the RCC, so there is probably something spiteful there in return.


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## jaybird0827 (Mar 19, 2009)

Ugh!


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## TimV (Mar 19, 2009)

> Why are so many the "good conservatives"



They're welcome to him. If the conservative movement can't get alone without someone who had an affair with his secretary like Newt, a **** writer like O'Reilly or a gambler like Bennett then the conservative movement can go RC with my blessing.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 19, 2009)

OK, I did put the scare quotes around "good conservatives." I meant the celebrity/popular conservatives, more or less. Point well taken, however.

My question was more along the lines of why we don't have solid (Reformed?) Protestants as conservative pundits. I think Hugh Hewitt (who I don't really care for) is a Presbyterian elder, but he's mainline (and it shows sometimes). Mike Gallagher is too worldly for my tastes. Dennis Miller is an agnostic (but former RC). Rush isn't church-going to the best of my knowledge. And most of the rest of the lot is RC. Even some of the rising political stars in the Republican party are RC (Jindal, for instance). I just wanted to know if there's some reason that someone could highlight here.


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## TimV (Mar 19, 2009)

> Rush isn't church-going to the best of my knowledge. And most of the rest of the lot is RC.



Pastor, by *FAR* the majority of those pundits are Jewish, not RC. For better or for worse, if you want confessional, orthodox leaders you have to look outside both main parties.


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## LawrenceU (Mar 19, 2009)

It's a conspiracy. Rome tried to take over the country via JFK and the Democrats. They have seen that it did not work and in their power lust they have pragmatically shifted into the 'Conservative' movement. It dovetails better because of the staunch pro life position of the church. And, the works righteousness rubric of the dogma lends itself to working in political arena.















Just kidding.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 19, 2009)

TimV said:


> > Rush isn't church-going to the best of my knowledge. And most of the rest of the lot is RC.
> 
> 
> 
> Pastor, by *FAR* the majority of those pundits are Jewish, not RC. For better or for worse, if you want confessional, orthodox leaders you have to look outside both main parties.



Really? I guess I'm just thinking of the folks on the radio. I know Prager and Medved are Jewish. What others are?


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## TimV (Mar 19, 2009)

> Really? I guess I'm just thinking of the folks on the radio. I know Prager and Medved are Jewish. What others are?



When it comes to neocon pundits, it's easier to name those who aren't. When you spend a little time looking at the modern conservative movement, with it's foriegn and domestic goals, you start seeing a common thread, and it's pushed by Savage, Krystol, Krauthammer, Perle, Murdoch, Friedman, Pipes, Frum, Horowitz, Feith, Miller, and the list goes on as long as you want to make it.


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## Craig (Mar 19, 2009)

I wonder if Rome will dissolve Newt's marriage...although, in their eyes, he's never been married, technically.

Man, that has to be a conscience-cleanser for him!


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## ZackF (Mar 19, 2009)

TimV said:


> > Why are so many the "good conservatives"
> 
> 
> 
> They're welcome to him. If the conservative movement can't get alone without someone who had an affair with his secretary like Newt, a **** writer like O'Reilly or a gambler like Bennett then the conservative movement can go RC with my blessing.




Really? I've been a gambler and not had a sterling heart of purity.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 19, 2009)

TimV said:


> > Really? I guess I'm just thinking of the folks on the radio. I know Prager and Medved are Jewish. What others are?
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to neocon pundits, it's easier to name those who aren't. When you spend a little time looking at the modern conservative movement, with it's foriegn and domestic goals, you start seeing a common thread, and it's pushed by Savage, Krystol, Krauthammer, Perle, Murdoch, Friedman, Pipes, Frum, Horowitz, Feith, Miller, and the list goes on as long as you want to make it.



Honestly, Tim, I've never heard of most of those guys. Shows you how far out of the neo-con loop (a good thing!) I am. Krauthammer I knew but didn't list him because he's a journalist (as is Krystol, but I forgot about him). Savage is a nutjob who pretends he isn't Jewish.

Thanks for the list and the enlightenment.


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## TimV (Mar 19, 2009)

> Really? I've been a gambler and not had a sterling heart of purity.



And while you were spending hundreds of thousands of your family money on the habit did you write a book about Virtue? And push the book every chance you got?


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## wturri78 (Mar 19, 2009)

KS_Presby said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > Why are so many the "good conservatives" (or at least the neo-cons/celebrity conservatives) becoming RC?
> ...



I'd like to point out that many are bone ignorant about historical Catholic theology too, especially those who've become converts! Smells 'n bells, baby.


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## Marrow Man (Mar 19, 2009)

Smells and bells, indeed. And you don't have to do the hard work of interpreting the Bible for yourself since you have someone else to infallibly do that for you.


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## ZackF (Mar 19, 2009)

TimV said:


> > Really? I've been a gambler and not had a sterling heart of purity.
> 
> 
> 
> And while you were spending hundreds of thousands of your family money on the habit did you write a book about Virtue? And push the book every chance you got?



No I gambled thousands while people thought I was "a good Catholic guy".

-----Added 3/19/2009 at 11:04:12 EST-----

I think the elephant in the room is Armstrong. What is he writing?


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## BJClark (Mar 19, 2009)

TimV;




> If the conservative movement can't get alone without someone who had an affair with his secretary like Newt, a **** writer like O'Reilly or a gambler like Bennett then the conservative movement can go RC with my blessing.



Seems God has many of those sinful creatures within His Family as well...



> My question was more along the lines of why we don't have solid (Reformed?) Protestants as conservative pundits.



I know many who believe Politics and Religion don't mix, so they stay out of Politics...but yet, when I read Scripture I see the opposite to be true..many Godly men were political leaders--the were the "elders sitting at the City Gates" The city gates were the political and religious center of town.


They were legal experts and officers appointed as leaders of the towns-



> Deuteronomy 16:18 "You shall appoint for yourself judges and officers in all your towns which the LORD your God is giving you, according to your tribes, and they shall judge the people with righteous judgment.



They were political leaders..



> Proverbs 31:23 Her husband is known in the gates, when he sitteth among the elders of the land.



But for whatever reason, the RC and other churches are encouraging their members to run for office..while the more reformed churches are not..


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## Knoxienne (Mar 19, 2009)

TimV said:


> > Really? I guess I'm just thinking of the folks on the radio. I know Prager and Medved are Jewish. What others are?
> 
> 
> 
> When it comes to neocon pundits, it's easier to name those who aren't. When you spend a little time looking at the modern conservative movement, with it's foriegn and domestic goals, you start seeing a common thread, and it's pushed by Savage, Krystol, Krauthammer, Perle, Murdoch, Friedman, Pipes, Frum, Horowitz, Feith, Miller, and the list goes on as long as you want to make it.



Very true. 

It seems that whenever someone's "conversion to something" hits the news, it's either RC or Judaism. Roman Catholic teachings and the Talmud have a lot of teachings on traditions in common and it all boils down to works-rightousness. Then add to that what both religions have in common with mysticism - RC rituals and the Kabballah, etc.


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## Classical Presbyterian (Mar 19, 2009)

Never underestimate the power of ceremony, ritual and pageantry on the human psyche--particularly the conservative mindset. A movement that seeks to be rooted in the unchanging, the historic, the eternal principles of God-ordained laws will always be drawn to these substitutes. When one has not rooted themselves in the joys of Scripture and yet holds to the conservative worldview, then one is more likely I believe to be drawn to ritualistic Roman forms or Orthodoxy. It's also why many past conservatives were Tories at heart--Monarchist.

So, we're a minority of a minority--Reformed AND conservative. To me, that's a good place to be!


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## ZackF (Mar 19, 2009)

Classical Presbyterian said:


> Never underestimate the power of ceremony, ritual and pageantry on the human psyche--particularly the conservative mindset. A movement that seeks to be rooted in the unchanging, the historic, the eternal principles of God-ordained laws will always be drawn to these substitutes. When one has not rooted themselves in the joys of Scripture and yet holds to the conservative worldview, then one is more likely I believe to be drawn to ritualistic Roman forms or Orthodoxy. It's also why many past conservatives were Tories at heart--Monarchist.
> 
> So, we're a minority of a minority--Reformed AND conservative. To me, that's a good place to be!



Excellent points!!


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