# Pastoral search committees



## Soonerborn

When a church needs to hire a pastor, the first step is usually to form a pastoral search committee. I have a few questions for anyone willing to answer: 

1) Is it wise to have a committee of members (elders, deacons, laypeople) in the first place? Would it be better for only the elders of the church to be the search committee? 

2) If a church has a "search committee", can anyone discuss the biblical reasons why or why not women should serve on the committee in looking for the new pastor? 

Thanks!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian




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## baron

Mike not sure if this is what you are looking for but in my experience with Baptist Churches, our committe is made up of officers and members including the women. 

Women are entitled to a vote so we will have at least one female member on the Committe.


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## KMK

I would assume that Presbyterian polity rejects the idea of 'searches' by a local church. Wouldn't the placement of pastors be the duty of the presbytery?

As for Baptist churches, it should be handled by elders but sometimes there are not enough to handle the load. 'Search committees' are then formed to take up the slack. I often wonder if 'lay' committees are instituted in these cases in order to deflect fallout from those who are inevitably unhappy with the new pastor.


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## Grillsy

Actuality a number of Presbyterian churches (OPC, PCA) have used pastoral search committees. Especially in mission churches where there may not be, as of yet, elders. If that is the case they are always under the oversight of the a governing session of an established church.
I digress, it is not uncommon to find a mixture of church-types in a search committee. Sorry I haven't the authority or the knowledge to answer the questions in the OP. Truth be told, I have asked the same questions myself.


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## brianeschen

KMK said:


> I would assume that Presbyterian polity rejects the idea of 'searches' by a local church. Wouldn't the placement of pastors be the duty of the presbytery?


Presbyterian polity recognizes the right of the local congregation to select a pastor. A pastor is not forced upon a congregation by the presbytery.


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## Scottish Lass

Grillsy said:


> Actuality a number of Presbyterian churches (OPC, PCA) have used pastoral search committees. Especially in mission churches where there may not be, as of yet, elders. If that is the case they are always under the oversight of the a governing session of an established church.
> I digress, it is not uncommon to find a mixture of church-types in a search committee. Sorry I haven't the authority of the knowledge to answer the questions in the OP. Truth be told, I have asked the same questions myself.



Yep, ARP, too.


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## Marrow Man

KMK said:


> I would assume that Presbyterian polity rejects the idea of 'searches' by a local church. Wouldn't the placement of pastors be the duty of the presbytery?



No. The local congregation calls the pastor in Presbyterian churches. The presbytery must accept/approve the candidate, but it is the local church that issues the call.

The Session should exercise wisdom in selecting such a committee. I know of a church in which the search committee was composed of 5 members -- and four were women! There was one elder on the committee, but the committee was chaired by a woman (another elder's wife). That's not very prudent, in my opinion.

OTOH, having only elders may not be wise either. There should be at least 2 elders on the search committee (depending on the size of course), and the chair should probably be an elder.

I served on a search committee once in which there were 0 elders on the committee. That probably isn't ideal either.


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## Wayne

KMK said:


> I would assume that Presbyterian polity rejects the idea of 'searches' by a local church. Wouldn't the placement of pastors be the duty of the presbytery?



I can see where you might think that, but no; rather, it is a long standing principle that a pastor cannot be imposed upon a congregation. In principle the earliest American statement of that is found in what are termed the Preliminary Principles, penned by John Witherspoon in 1788:



> 6. That, though the character, qualifications and authority of church officers are laid down in the Holy Scriptures, as well as the proper method of their investiture and institution, yet the election of the persons to the exercise of this authority, in any particular society, is in that society.



Plus some commentary by J. Aspinwall Hodge in _What Is Presbyterian Law?_ (Philadelphia, 1882, pp. 26) :
VI. What is the sixth principle?
"The election of persons to the exercise of this authority, in any particular society, is in that society."

What officers can be appointed in the church?
"The character, qualifications and authority of church officers, are laid down in the Holy Scriptures, as well as the proper method of their investiture and institution."

By whom are officers to be chosen?
The right of election belongs to those over whom the authority is to be exercised. Pastors, Ruling Elders and Deacons must be elected by the particular churches in which they hold office.

-----Added 10/19/2009 at 04:36:44 EST-----

More on the search committee, from the PCA's Book of Church Order, chapter 20, On the Installation of Pastors, paragraph 2, with some of my notes following:

20-2. Every church should be under the pastoral oversight of a minister, and when a church has no pastor it should seek to secure one without delay.
A church shall proceed to elect a pastor in the following manner: The Session shall call a congregational meeting to elect a pulpit committee which may be composed of members from the congregation at large or the Session, as designated by the congregation (see BCO 25). The pulpit committee shall, after consultation and deliberation, recommend to the congregation a pastoral candidate who, in its judgment, fulfills the Constitutional requirements of that office (e.g., BCO 8, 13-6 and 21) and is most suited to be profitable to the spiritual interests of the congregation (cf. BCO 20-6).
The Session shall order a congregational meeting to convene at the regular place of worship. Public notice of the time, place, and purpose of this meeting shall be given at least one week prior to the time of the meeting.

HISTORICAL SUMMARY:
At its formation in 1973, the PCA adopted without change the text of the 1933 PCUS edition of the BCO. That 1933 edition in turn dated to a major revision enacted in 1925. Within the history of the PCA, the first change to this paragraph was adopted at the Second General Assembly, following recommendations from the Constitutional Documents Committee. The Committee recommended new wording that stipulated the election of a pulpit committee as part of the process and deleted what had been the final sentence of the paragraph as it originally stood. [cf. M2GA, 2-70, 1., page 59].
To explain this amendment in 1974 and the seemingly sudden institution of a pulpit committee as part of the process, it may be helpful to look at an amendment adopted by the PCUS in 1940 [M80GA, p.73-74]. The idea of using a nominating committee to do the basic work of pastoral search for the congregation appears to become part of the official process with that PCUS amendment. While the PCA looked to the 1933 edition of the PCUS BCO as the exemplar for its Proposed Book of Church Order, we should not forget that the PCA's founding fathers had been living with and using the PCUS BCO as it existed from 1934 up until 1973, and that while there were reasons for working from the 1933 PCUS edition, it is likely that there were some aspects of later editions that were appreciated and found useful. For reference, see the 1940 amendment to the PCUS BCO posted below.

1940 - PCUS BCO, Paragraph 122 [M80GA, p. 73]:
"Every Church should be under the pastoral oversight of a Minister, and when vacant, shall promptly proceed to elect a Pastor in the following manner: The Session shall call a Congregational meeting to convene at the regular place of worship to elect a Nominating Committee representative of the whole Congregation, whose duty it shall be to nominate a Minister to the Congregation for election as Pastor. Public notice of the time, place and purpose of the meeting shall be given at least one week prior to the time of the meeting. The Nominating Committee shall confer with Presbytery's Commission on the Minister and His Work, as provided in Paragraph 76-a. When the Committee is ready to report it shall notify the Session, which shall call a Congregational meeting at the regular place of worship for the purpose of acting on the report of the Nominating Committee. Public notice of the time, place and purpose of the meeting shall be given at least one week prior to the time of the meeting. The same procedure shall be followed in the selection of an Associate Pastor.

[from Historical Development of the PCA Book of Church Order : Chapter 20, Paragraph 2]


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## Marrow Man

There is another historical reason for this in Presbyterian churches: in the early 1700s, the Patronage Act was passed in Scotland, which gave the right for selecting pastors to wealthy landowners (and not to the congregation). It was one of the issues that led to the formation of the Associate Presbytery and the Succession church (one of the forerunners of the ARP).


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## Pergamum

Thank you for this post. I have wondered the same thing. This is most beneficial. 

I would also love to hear more from a baptist perspective.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

For those in Continental Churches how does this look different than the Presbyterians??


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## Rich Koster

Make sure _whoever_ is on the committee is in total agreement with your doctrinal statement and well grounded in the word. I have witnessed the results of having the wrong people on a search committee who brought in a pastor who started teaching stuff contrary to the stated beliefs in our constitution.


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## Glenn Ferrell

*OPC BOCO:FOG*

*CHAPTER XXII
CALLING A MINISTER*

1. A minister or licentiate may be called to ministerial service by a congregation; he may also be called by a presbytery or the general assembly, either directly or through their agencies, for work not related to any one particular congregation. Only ministers and licentiates may be called.

2. All calls shall be presented to the person called only by consent of presbytery. No minister shall be transferred to other service without his consent.

3. When a congregation desires to call a pastor it shall ordinarily choose a special committee from its own membership to assist it in selecting him. If the committee is not identical with the session, invitations to preach to the congregation shall be issued only with the approval of the session. No person shall be called by the congregation without the prior approval of the session, except that any ten members entitled to vote or one-fifth of all those entitled to vote, which ever be the larger number, may present a nomination to the congregation, such nomination having been previously submitted to the special committee for its consideration.

4. When the special committee is prepared to make its report it shall inform the session and present to it a copy of its proposed report so that the session may consider such nominations as may be contemplated in the proposed report. The session shall then, if it deems it advisable, convene a meeting of the congregation for the purpose of hearing the report of the committee and acting on it; it shall, however, always be the duty of the session to convene the congregation in accordance with Chapter XVI, Section 1, and to conduct the meeting in accordance with that chapter.

5. When the meeting has been convened and the call of the meeting has been found in order, it is expedient that the moderator give an exhortation to the congregation suited to the purpose of its coming together. The special committee, or the session, shall then present its report, after which the congregation shall determine whether it wishes to proceed to call a pastor.

6. If the congregation decides to vote to call a pastor the moderator shall conduct the election. The voting shall be by ballot, a majority being required for election.

If the vote is unanimous a call shall be drawn in due form. If there is a majority and a minority the moderator shall address the congregation seeking to persuade the minority to concur in the call. A ballot shall then be taken to determine the number concurring in the call. If there is still a minority unwilling to concur, the moderator shall advise the majority and the minority concerning their mutual responsibilities. A final ballot shall then be taken to determine the number desiring to prosecute the call in the circumstances. If a majority decides to prosecute the call it shall be drawn in due form and the presbytery shall be informed of the proceedings.

If at any point in the meeting the congregation decides not to call a pastor it may refer the matter back to the special committee, or to the session, as the case may be, for report to a later meeting, or take such other action as may be appropriate.

-----Added 10/19/2009 at 08:43:40 EST-----



Soonerborn said:


> When a church needs to hire a pastor, ...




Pastors are not "hired;" they are called.

Jesus warned about hirelings.


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## R. Scott Clark

From the HB: "So You're About to Begin a Pastoral Search?"


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## bookslover

True story:

Some years ago, an OPC church in the Middle West was looking to call a new pastor. They sifted through the applications they received, and invited five men to come to preach and stay for a week of ministry and get-to-know-you time. The church flew in each man (one at a time, of course) and his family to spend the week.

After each man had done his week, the search committee, after deliberating, extended its call to the one man of the five who, it turned out, not only turned them down, but told them he was seriously debating whether he was actually called to the ministry in the first place!

So much for the sagacity of search committees!

It's not, of course, an infallible process, to say the least...


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## Osage Bluestem

Soonerborn said:


> When a church needs to hire a pastor, the first step is usually to form a pastoral search committee. I have a few questions for anyone willing to answer:
> 
> 1) Is it wise to have a committee of members (elders, deacons, laypeople) in the first place? Would it be better for only the elders of the church to be the search committee?
> 
> 2) If a church has a "search committee", can anyone discuss the biblical reasons why or why not women should serve on the committee in looking for the new pastor?
> 
> Thanks!



Well,

I can say that the church I am a member of has a current commisioned pastoral search committee. It has elders, deacons, and laypeople on it. The lay people consist of men and women.

The bible doesn't give instructions on how to find a pastor and does not exclude women from helping their churches find one, or working in many other non-ordained roles in the church.


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## J. David Kear

I just finished serving on a pastoral search committee for our church. After 16 months our new pastor was installed this past Lord’s day.

We had a five member committee that consisted of 4 men and 1 woman (1 elder, 1 deacon, 2 SS teachers, and 1 deacon’s wife). We were all nominated and elected by the congregation.

Let me tell you it was a lot of work. It was also a very rewarding experience. The group that served on the committee grew to be super close and we have a church that is pumped up and excited about our new pastor.

Peace,
JDK


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## FenderPriest

A question that comes to mind is if men from within the church searching for a pastor are considered? Personally, I'm not a fan of the "pastoral search committee", though I understand the historical reasons for it. I just wonder if the eye for leaders for the church shouldn't first start looking at men within the church body? Indeed, they may be inexperienced, or need training, but it seems unnatural in some ways to invite somebody who isn't a part of a local church to come and take on the responsibilities of leading that body when there are already men in that local church whom God could use for the pastoral office. I think search committees can - and often do - work, but I'm just raising the question as to whether it should be done. But, I'll admit, I'm largely ignorant of the whole process! So if I'm missing something here, please feel free to help me see it.


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## Mushroom

We're forming one right now, and my thought is there should be a good representation of the congregation, officers and layfolk, men and women, but chaired by an officer - and all should be well-grounded in the Word and in agreement with our standards. Everybody should also have the time available to commit to the task.

KMK- Presbyterians aren't episcopal in polity, which is what it sounds like you're describing.

-----Added 10/21/2009 at 04:07:23 EST-----



FenderPriest said:


> A question that comes to mind is if men from within the church searching for a pastor are considered? Personally, I'm not a fan of the "pastoral search committee", though I understand the historical reasons for it. I just wonder if the eye for leaders for the church shouldn't first start looking at men within the church body? Indeed, they may be inexperienced, or need training, but it seems unnatural in some ways to invite somebody who isn't a part of a local church to come and take on the responsibilities of leading that body when there are already men in that local church whom God could use for the pastoral office. I think search committees can - and often do - work, but I'm just raising the question as to whether it should be done. But, I'll admit, I'm largely ignorant of the whole process! So if I'm missing something here, please feel free to help me see it.


If a man is qualified, then he is certainly eligible to be considered. But such a man would have to already be far along in the process of being licensed and ordained by the denom. Presbyterians don't do OTJT when it comes to calling a Shepherd.


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## Amazing Grace

FenderPriest said:


> A question that comes to mind is if men from within the church searching for a pastor are considered? Personally, I'm not a fan of the "pastoral search committee", though I understand the historical reasons for it. I just wonder if the eye for leaders for the church shouldn't first start looking at men within the church body? Indeed, they may be inexperienced, or need training, but it seems unnatural in some ways to invite somebody who isn't a part of a local church to come and take on the responsibilities of leading that body when there are already men in that local church whom God could use for the pastoral office. I think search committees can - and often do - work, but I'm just raising the question as to whether it should be done. But, I'll admit, I'm largely ignorant of the whole process! So if I'm missing something here, please feel free to help me see it.



What is the Historical reasons for it? I see nothing of the sort in scripture. I agree with you. We need to raise up leaders from within the local body, or even regional body. Our last 2 pastors have been imported from New jersey. I find it ludicrous to fly them in, have them do one sermon, and somehow use personal references to pick the right one. They should not be done, especially the way our denomination does it. Paul would go and find people in a local assembly who were elevated by the people there and ONLY confirm what the already decided.


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## SemperEruditio

The congregation calls the pastor based on prayer and their belief they have found who God would want them to have. There is no way of simply "growing our own" in order to teach our own. We have to look outside of the local congregation...besides the Body of Christ is global so we shouldn't get all incestuous about this whole thing.


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## Amazing Grace

SemperEruditio said:


> The congregation calls the pastor based on prayer and their belief they have found who God would want them to have. There is no way of simply "growing our own" in order to teach our own. We have to look outside of the local congregation...besides the Body of Christ is global so we shouldn't get all incestuous about this whole thing.



Why is there no way of growing our own and teaching our own? Is this not the responsibility of the Leaders and the congregation? It is much wiser to discern the gift of one you know than one you do not know. God provides good pastors in spite of this practice, not because of it.


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## Scottish Lass

Amazing Grace said:


> Why is there no way of growing our own and teaching our own? Is this not the responsibility of the Leaders and the congregation? It is much wiser to discern the gift of one you know than one you do not know. God provides good pastors in spite of this practice, not because of it.




Can we at least agree that there may be seasons where this is not possible? Tim has pastored two churches, both of which were dwindling to a handful of families, the vast majority of whom were past traditional retirement age. Is calling from within (and presumably sending to seminary, licensing, etc., which is required in our denomination) truly feasible at this point in the congregation's history? Or is it reasonable (while possibly not ideal) for them to call a man from a seminary which they fund and who will be/has been examined by the presbytery over them?


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## Amazing Grace

Scottish Lass said:


> Amazing Grace said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why is there no way of growing our own and teaching our own? Is this not the responsibility of the Leaders and the congregation? It is much wiser to discern the gift of one you know than one you do not know. God provides good pastors in spite of this practice, not because of it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can we at least agree that there may be seasons where this is not possible? Tim has pastored two churches, both of which were dwindling to a handful of families, the vast majority of whom were past traditional retirement age. Is calling from within (and presumably sending to seminary, licensing, etc., which is required in our denomination) truly feasible at this point in the congregation's history? Or is it reasonable (while possibly not ideal) for them to call a man from a seminary which they fund and who will be/has been examined by the presbytery over them?
Click to expand...


I also include regional candidates SL. Not specifically from within the specific body. I live in Holland Mi. Little Geneva. How can anyone tell me there is not one gifted person in the regional area to raise up as a pastor? Instead we had to import of Jeresy?


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## Scott1

FenderPriest said:


> A question that comes to mind is if men from within the church searching for a pastor are considered? Personally, I'm not a fan of the "pastoral search committee", though I understand the historical reasons for it. I just wonder if the eye for leaders for the church shouldn't first start looking at men within the church body? Indeed, they may be inexperienced, or need training, but it seems unnatural in some ways to invite somebody who isn't a part of a local church to come and take on the responsibilities of leading that body when there are already men in that local church whom God could use for the pastoral office. I think search committees can - and often do - work, but I'm just raising the question as to whether it should be done. But, I'll admit, I'm largely ignorant of the whole process! So if I'm missing something here, please feel free to help me see it.



While I'm just now thinking through our denominational process, it seems to work well in practice, at least it has for our particular church.

One aspect of your question in recent practice was reflected when our congregation elected a pastoral search committee. 

The congregation actually elects the members of the committee- which was set, I think by session with some local guidelines. In this case, the committee membership was set at about 10.

All committee objectives and operating rules are, ordinarily set by Session.

It was roughly 1/2 men and women with a "convenor" (chairman) the one receiving the most congregational votes. In this case "convenor" was an elder.

The goal was to narrow down the process to a final three, then final two candidates, with the final two being given opportunity to preach to the congregation, usually a couple of times.

Something unusual happened in this search for senior pastor for our congregation- an overwhelming consensus quickly came to call the associate pastor to the position. He became the clear (unanimous) and total choice of the committee. God really directed in this.

In the PCA, this is rare, and in fact requires a super super majority vote to guard against internal favoritism and carnal "power playing" between leaders (what wisdom of our presbyterian forefathers)!

So, in the PCA, it takes an 80% vote of the congregation and 75% vote of presbytery to "move up" a pastor from associate or assistant to senior pastor position.

[There are some differences in polity between "associate" and "assistant" Pastor but that is not the subject of your post so I won't address that here.]



> Presbyterian Church in America
> Book of Church Order
> 
> CHAPTER 23
> The Dissolution of the Pastoral Relation and
> The Procedure for Honorable Retirement
> 
> 23-1. When any minister shall tender the resignation of his pastoral charge
> to his Presbytery, the Presbytery shall cite the church to appear by its
> commissioners, to show cause why the Presbytery should or should not
> accept the resignation. If the church fails to appear, or if its reasons for
> retaining its pastor be deemed insufficient, his resignation shall be accepted
> and the pastoral relation dissolved.
> 
> If any church desires to be relieved of its pastor, a similar procedure
> shall be observed. But whether the minister or the church initiates
> proceedings for a dissolution of the relation, there shall always be a meeting
> of the congregation called and conducted in the same manner as the call of
> the pastor. In any case, the minister must not physically leave the field until
> the Presbytery or its commission empowered to handle uncontested requests
> for dissolution has dissolved the relation.
> 
> The associate or assistant pastors may continue to serve a congregation when the pastoral relation of the senior pastor is dissolved, but they may not normally succeed the senior pastor without an intervening term of service in a different field of labor. However a congregation *by a secret ballot with four-fifths (4/5) majority *vote may petition Presbytery for an exception *which by a three-fourths (3/4) majority vote Presbytery may grant.*
> 
> Presbytery needs to determine if the dissolution of the pastoral relationship
> with the senior pastor was brought about in Christian love and good order on
> the part of the parties concerned.



One other aspect- in the PCA, the congregation actually votes on the pay and compensation package total amount for the senior pastor. So congregation would actually vote on:

1) whether to call
2) approve, (e.g. a $60,000) total compensation

The congregation actually vows to faithfully and adequately support the Pastors it calls.



> Questions to Congregation
> 
> 21-6.
> 
> The candidate having answered these questions in the affirmative,
> the presiding minister shall propose to the church the following questions:
> 
> 1. Do you, the people of this congregation, continue to profess
> your readiness to receive _________________, whom you
> have called to be your pastor?
> 2. Do you promise to receive the word of truth from his mouth
> with meekness and love, and to submit to him in the due
> exercise of discipline?
> 3. Do you promise to encourage him in his labors, and to assist
> his endeavors for your instruction and spiritual edification?
> 4. *Do you engage to continue to him while he is your pastor that
> competent worldly maintenance which you have promised, and
> to furnish him with whatever you may see needful for the honor
> of religion and for his comfort among you?*



(This is an example of what true "covenant community" is about- the congregation makes sure they are taking fair material care of those they call)

In Presbyterianism, as has been pointed out, the congregation elects (confirms) those whom God has appointed to rule over them. Any teaching elder (Senior, Associate, Assistant Pastor) must be carefully examined by Presbytery for comprehensive doctrinal knowledge, scruples, and an exemplary life and they independently must admit a teaching elder to a presbytery.

I've been told the PCA is even more "grass roots" in its polity relatively speaking within presbyterianism, and intentionally so, but am not familiar enough with other presbyterian polities to contrast with it.

What's interesting is that every congregation election (confirmation) of Senior of Associate Pastor I've seen has been virtually unanimous (e.g. 97+ percent) and, not to be boastful, but God has allowed us to see the excellency of the choices.


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## FenderPriest

Thank you Scott for our input here, it's quite helpful. I was raised in the United Methodist Church, which of course _never_ did anything like this. So I not only find your post helpful and clarifying, but illuminating to the wisdom and thought that has been used by my brothers and sisters within Presbyterianism. Thanks!


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## SemperEruditio

Amazing Grace said:


> SemperEruditio said:
> 
> 
> 
> The congregation calls the pastor based on prayer and their belief they have found who God would want them to have. There is no way of *simply* "growing our own" in order to teach our own. We have to look outside of the local congregation...besides the Body of Christ is global so we shouldn't get all incestuous about this whole thing.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why is there no way of growing our own and teaching our own? Is this not the responsibility of the Leaders and the congregation? It is much wiser to discern the gift of one you know than one you do not know. God provides good pastors in spite of this practice, not because of it.
Click to expand...

I should have been clearer because my point is that this is not a simple process. How does one prepare a man in their congregation to get ready to pastor the very congregation which already has a pastor? Unless the pastor is going to retire, identifying men who will one day fulfill the qualification of pastor is for the express purpose of sending them to another congregation.



Amazing Grace said:


> I also include regional candidates SL. Not specifically from within the specific body.


As we see you also include "regional" candidates. Now who defines what a region is? In the US I can think of the NE, Mid-Atlantic, South... So this opens up the congregations that one is able to interview at quite a bit yet someone trained at RTS-Washington is not familiar with the customs/practices of Tennessee. 

Ultimately my point is that God provides good pastors. I see the need to grow our own and believe in it . Too often however this leads to pushing men who are not qualified into leadership. Better to see the gift and encourage it. What I have witnessed is "seeing something" and forcing what the pastor thinks he saw to the detriment to the body of Christ.


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## Marrow Man

Amazing Grace said:


> I also include regional candidates SL. Not specifically from within the specific body. I live in Holland Mi. Little Geneva. How can anyone tell me there is not one gifted person in the regional area to raise up as a pastor? Instead we had to import of Jeresy?



With regard to the Louisville congregation, such a thing might indeed be possible. There was even someone in the church who was considering the ministry at one time, but it became clear later (before I came) that he was not called to the ministry. Even if not within the congregation, the fact that we are near a good seminary (Southern) would help. However, most folks going through SBTS are Baptist, so that would be a problem. The local Presbyterian seminary is simply awful and that's not a likely source.

The situation would have been next-to-impossible in Mississippi. There simply would not have been a qualified person. The best that could have been hoped for there is that an associate at the large ARP church nearby (who was attending RTS-Jackson, but that was 3 hours away) could have been considered.

Small, older churches in remote areas don't always have tons of options.


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## Soonerborn

Thanks for everyone's input. I do have a follow up question: 

If a church is going to have a pastoral search committee, made up of officers and lay people, what steps, if any, should the church take to ensure the lay members of the committe agree with the church's confessional standards. 

Obviously, the officers on the committee would have been previously examined on their confessional stance, and any exceptions would have been noted. But to join a church (PCA I am talking about), you don't have to disclose your stance on the confessional standards, but make a profession of faith and be accepted for membership by the elders. 

My point is, is it necessary to "examine" lay persons who are nominees for the committee, or is membership the only prerequisite for a pastoral search committee. 

I tend to think some sort of examination by the session is necessary in this process. Please give me your thoughts.


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## Scott1

Soonerborn said:


> Thanks for everyone's input. I do have a follow up question:
> 
> If a church is going to have a pastoral search committee, made up of officers and lay people, what steps, if any, should the church take to ensure the lay members of the committe agree with the church's confessional standards.
> 
> Obviously, the officers on the committee would have been previously examined on their confessional stance, and any exceptions would have been noted. But to join a church (PCA I am talking about), you don't have to disclose your stance on the confessional standards, but make a profession of faith and be accepted for membership by the elders.
> 
> My point is, is it necessary to "examine" lay persons who are nominees for the committee, or is membership the only prerequisite for a pastoral search committee.
> 
> I tend to think some sort of examination by the session is necessary in this process. Please give me your thoughts.



Session, ordinarily, will give an operating charge to all committees.

For a Senior or Associate Pastor position, one charge would likely be that any candidate already be an ordained minister in the PCA. Possibly, it might also be OPC, because they are so close.

That would mean they have already been examined and admitted with any exceptions publically stated, evaluated and approved by a presbytery.

Additionally, Session might give additional charges to the search committee:

1) if candidate has any doctrine "exceptions" they must be evaluated first by session before committee can proceed with recommendation
2) committee might be required to have a strong elder (e.g. committee of 7 must have at least 2 elders on it)

In this, you can see the benefits of a confessional system- the accountability and unity it affords. 

Also, you can see, with the system of doctrinal subscription that allows "exceptions" (scruples) as presbyterianism has historically, requesting an "exception" is a very big deal with very big implications. 

It is not a "pick and choose" doctrinal system in practice and so "exceptions" should ordinarily be few and far between and they invite scrutiny (as they should).


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## Soonerborn

Scott1 said:


> Soonerborn said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for everyone's input. I do have a follow up question:
> 
> If a church is going to have a pastoral search committee, made up of officers and lay people, what steps, if any, should the church take to ensure the lay members of the committe agree with the church's confessional standards.
> 
> Obviously, the officers on the committee would have been previously examined on their confessional stance, and any exceptions would have been noted. But to join a church (PCA I am talking about), you don't have to disclose your stance on the confessional standards, but make a profession of faith and be accepted for membership by the elders.
> 
> My point is, is it necessary to "examine" lay persons who are nominees for the committee, or is membership the only prerequisite for a pastoral search committee.
> 
> I tend to think some sort of examination by the session is necessary in this process. Please give me your thoughts.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Session, ordinarily, will give an operating charge to all committees.
> 
> For a Senior or Associate Pastor position, one charge would likely be that any candidate already be an ordained minister in the PCA. Possibly, it might also be OPC, because they are so close.
> 
> That would mean they have already been examined and admitted with any exceptions publically stated, evaluated and approved by a presbytery.
> 
> Additionally, Session might give additional charges to the search committee:
> 
> 1) if candidate has any doctrine "exceptions" they must be evaluated first by session before committee can proceed with recommendation
> 2) committee might be required to have a strong elder (e.g. committee of 7 must have at least 2 elders on it)
Click to expand...


Thanks for post, but my post was referring to examining the lay people on the search committee, not the pastoral candidate. Sorry for the confusion.


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## Scott1

Yes, I see you are referring to the qualifications of people on the search committee.

The point is that if the particular church's session has already charged the search committee to search only already ordained PCA teaching elders, there is no issue with regard to the candidate's doctrinal subscription. It is already assured.

Having a strong elder presence on the committee further assures it, without having to doctrinally qualify the other lay members of the committee. Those lay members, elected by the congregation, might not have comprehensive knowledge of, let alone agreement with every proposition and/or statement of their doctrine, but the candidate pool they choose from would.

Remember also, further checks- the committee is elected by the congregation at large and the candidate will be likely questioned by the congregation also.

At our congregational meeting, question and answer with the candidate for senior pastor, I asked if he took any exceptions to our doctrinal standards. (He did not).

In this system, generally any member in good standing would be eligible for election by the congregation to the committee. In practice, I have noticed the wives of officers are often participative in this process (e.g. committee of 9 might have 2 elders, 2 wives of deacons or elders, and 5 other lay people).

-----Added 10/22/2009 at 03:30:16 EST-----

One other thing about the Pastoral Search Committee.

It might have a lot of "competition." For example if Session charges the committee to have 9 members, it might have 18 or so standing for election to the committee. So the congregation is voting among 18 for the 9 to represent it. 

In one case, photos were used of all the candidates for election to the committee. Again for example, say session charges 2 elders, 7 laypeople. Candidates for election to the committee might very well include 4 elders, 14 laypeople.

In practice also, it seems the wives of officers (deacons and elders) as well as additional officers, particularly "inactive" officers will also stand for the other slots.


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## Mushroom

> there is no issue with regard to the candidate's doctrinal subscription. It is already assured.


Now there is a bold statement regarding the state of the PCA pulpit, my brother! Would that it were as warranted as it sounds!


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## Edward

Scott1 said:


> Something unusual happened in this search for senior pastor for our congregation- an overwhelming consensus quickly came to call the associate pastor to the position. He became the clear (unanimous) and total choice of the committee. God really directed in this.



I can top that story - we called an assistant as senior pastor (we had several associates, as well). It took us about 2 years, however.


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## Scottish Lass

Scott,
I've known pastors whose exceptions have changed during a call. Merely because they took no exceptions before their prior church in no way assures you of their current position. Direct, hot-button questions should still be asked, in my opinion (questions will vary by denom/presbytery, etc.).


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## SemperEruditio

Edward said:


> Scott1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something unusual happened in this search for senior pastor for our congregation- an overwhelming consensus quickly came to call the associate pastor to the position. He became the clear (unanimous) and total choice of the committee. God really directed in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can top that story - we called an assistant as senior pastor (we had several associates, as well). It took us about 2 years, however.
Click to expand...


In looking at open pulpits in the PCA I have noticed this. Why is that? Why is it that the associate or assistant is overlooked? I spoke to one brother who only wanted to be the associate/assistant. He had been a senior pastor and did not want to be in that role. Which has me wonder about how equal the elders really are.


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## Scott1

SemperEruditio said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Something unusual happened in this search for senior pastor for our congregation- an overwhelming consensus quickly came to call the associate pastor to the position. He became the clear (unanimous) and total choice of the committee. God really directed in this.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I can top that story - we called an assistant as senior pastor (we had several associates, as well). It took us about 2 years, however.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> In looking at open pulpits in the PCA I have noticed this. Why is that? Why is it that the associate or assistant is overlooked? I spoke to one brother who only wanted to be the associate/assistant. He had been a senior pastor and did not want to be in that role. Which has me wonder about how equal the elders really are.
Click to expand...


The reasoning of, for example, our Book of Church Order requiring an 80% vote for a particular church to "move up" an assistant pastor to senior pastor, and a 75% vote of presbytery to confirm is partly giftings and callings, partly the falleness of man.

The former in that a congregation might be looking especially for giftings to oversee pastoral care or education which might not be the same as for a senior Pastor.

While a Senior Pastor might very highly prioritize the ability to carefully and clearly handle the Word of God in teaching and preaching, the Associate Pastor might need a primary gift for Pastoral care, or even administrative gifts.

There might be no way, particularly in a larger congregation, for the senior pastor to do the bulk of teaching and preaching, counsel all families, direct and facilitate all systematic church education. But God will equip and call several men to cover all those needs.

There might be a "natural" (using that term in the fallen, fleshly sense) instinct to compete for the "top spot" Pastor, and maneuver toward that, possibly even cause strife, the super super majorities required are a check not a guarantee, but a check on that tendency.


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