# Paedocommunion and the PCA



## KMK (Sep 20, 2007)

I thought I heard someone say that paedocommunion is allowed in the PCA as a 'matter of conscience'. Is this true? And are the numbers of paedocommunionists growing within the Presbyterian ranks?


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## jbergsing (Sep 20, 2007)

KMK said:


> I thought I heard someone say that paedocommunion is allowed in the PCA as a 'matter of conscience'. Is this true? And are the numbers of paedocommunionists growing within the Presbyterian ranks?


I didn't think PCA churches practiced paedocommunion. Our (PCA) church certainly doesn't. This is a touchy matter in my home as my 7 year-old recently professed faith in Christ and yet our church forbids his partaking of the table until they determine he more fully understands what the sacrament is all about. Needless to say, it is an ongoing struggle every Sunday when the plates pass him by.


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## larryjf (Sep 20, 2007)

jbergsing said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > I thought I heard someone say that paedocommunion is allowed in the PCA as a 'matter of conscience'. Is this true? And are the numbers of paedocommunionists growing within the Presbyterian ranks?
> ...



I had a very similar issue with my 7 year-old son.
The strange thing for me was that the Session simply said no...they never even sought to see were he was at in his faith before saying no. When i let them know that i was not pleased with their response they did say that they would meet with him, but i wouldn't put my son through that,knowing that they have already made up their minds.

The strange thing is that in catechising my son he has learned that...
Q: who should partake of the Lord's Supper?
A: Only those who repent of their sins, believe in Jesus Christ for salvation, and love their fellow man.

So he doesn't understand why he is not allowed at the Lord's table since he does meet the requirements of his catechism.


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## Romans922 (Sep 20, 2007)

The PCA position paper on Paedocommunion: http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-498.doc


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## fredtgreco (Sep 20, 2007)

KMK said:


> I thought I heard someone say that paedocommunion is allowed in the PCA as a 'matter of conscience'. Is this true? And are the numbers of paedocommunionists growing within the Presbyterian ranks?





larryjf said:


> jbergsing said:
> 
> 
> > KMK said:
> ...



No PCA church can practice paedocommunion. It is contrary to our Standards, and th eBook of Church order. Any Session that allows paedocommunion (communing without making a profession of faith before the Session) is in violation of church order and should be addressed by Presbytery.

Having said that, and acknowledging that I view paedocommunion as a serious exception that should be prohibited in the PCA, I am also an advocate of Sessions taking the time to interview and admit (if the profession is credible, and not just a simple "Jesus loves me" "God made me") children. I have personally voted to admit children of 7 or 8.

Reactions: Like 1


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## travis (Sep 20, 2007)

My church admits children of 6 and up to the table once they give a credible profession and are presented to the session.


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## Romans922 (Sep 20, 2007)

travis said:


> My church admits children of 6 and up to the table once they give a credible profession and are presented to the session.



Fred, how young do you think is too young? Would you say this depends on each child?

What would you do if a 3 yr old came and clearly professed JC and showed it through their actions?


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## fredtgreco (Sep 20, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> travis said:
> 
> 
> > My church admits children of 6 and up to the table once they give a credible profession and are presented to the session.
> ...



It does depend on each child. I urge caution and waiting (after all, it is not a deadly error to wait) especially where the profession is a rote kind that is heavily dependent on children's catechism answers.

Reactions: Like 1


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## larryjf (Sep 20, 2007)

I think we should be very careful about setting age limits up, as they are not scriptural.

You do have to ask q's that go outside of the catechism to see where the child really is in their walk, and look to see if they have the fruit of a Christian walk.

I think "why do you want to take part" is a question that many times gets to the heart of the matter.


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## KMK (Sep 20, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> The PCA position paper on Paedocommunion: http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-498.doc



I read there was a minority report written by Robert Rayburn Jr. Would you say that the ranks of the paedocommunionists within the PCA are growing?


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## travis (Sep 20, 2007)

Yes, I think paedocommunion is becoming more accepted amongst the PCA ranks.

Side note: Wasn't there a majority report from the OPC in favor of paedocommuion that was shot down by the GA?

From the report:



> VI. Recommendations of the Committee
> 
> 1. In light of the fact that a majority of the Committee is inclined, at this point, to favor the admission of (weaned) infants to the Lord's Supper, as well as little children, that:
> 
> ...


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## Pilgrim (Sep 20, 2007)

travis said:


> Yes, I think paedocommunion is becoming more accepted amongst the PCA ranks.
> 
> Side note: Wasn't there a majority report from the OPC in favor of paedocommuion that was shot down by the GA?



Yes.


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## KMK (Sep 20, 2007)

Does this majority in the OPC see paedocommunion as a 'matter of conscience'?


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## Gloria (Sep 20, 2007)

I'm a member of a PCA and paedocommunion is NOT permitted. NO WAY.


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 21, 2007)

KMK said:


> Does this majority in the OPC see paedocommunion as a 'matter of conscience'?


Because a committee of several men had a majority in favor of paedocommunion does not mean there are a majority in the denomination in favor of it. Fact is, the GA rejected the majority opinion of the committee and went with the minority opinion.


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## CDM (Sep 21, 2007)

The PCA church I was a member of has an elder who is a paedocommunionist. He rightly doesn't teach it though.


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## KMK (Sep 21, 2007)

I am just curious if these men see paedocommunion as a 'matter of conscience' or a matter of 'necessity'. Do they favor allowing it or commanding it? Do these elders believe that it should be allowed out of a desire to receive the weaker brother, or do they believe that it is what Scripture commands?


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 21, 2007)

I expect you would need to ask each man for his opinion. The majority signers were Edwin Urban, Roger Wagner, and G.I. Williamson. However, GI will not speak to the subject, so you are left with the other two if they are still around (the report dates to 1988 I believe).


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 21, 2007)

This is not intended to start any snowball fights but one of the things I do to defend the distinct character of the Lord's Supper and Baptism when discussing with Baptists is that the former is a Covenant Renewal ceremony for discerning disciples. I point out that the Law required only the Jewish _men_ to go up to the Tabernacle during the Passover to celebrate it.

When you read Edersheim on the practice, it was Jewish practice that a boy attended his first Passover at age 12 - hence Jesus seems to have submitted to the same pattern.

Now I know that this is all "tradition" but not all tradition is, of necessity, imprudent.

What I'm wondering out loud is this: Do you suppose there was ever a Jewish man who brought his 7-8 year old boy to the Passover and said to the Elders: "I think my boy is particularly bright for his age and spiritually discerning. Could you please admit him to the Passover table?"

It seems to me that sufficient continuity exists with regard to the substance of the Sacrament that we ought not throw off centuries of practice so easily. I dare say that children in an agrarian society probably grew up faster than our own and it is not a small thing that Christ Himself did not attend the "supper" until he was 12.


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## wsw201 (Sep 21, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> This is not intended to start any snowball fights but one of the things I do to defend the distinct character of the Lord's Supper and Baptism when discussing with Baptists is that the former is a Covenant Renewal ceremony for discerning disciples. I point out that the Law required only the Jewish _men_ to go up to the Tabernacle during the Passover to celebrate it.
> 
> When you read Edersheim on the practice, it was Jewish practice that a boy attended his first Passover at age 12 - hence Jesus seems to have submitted to the same pattern.
> 
> ...



Allowing children under the age of 12 to become communing members is a rather recent phenomenon in Reformed Churches. Prior to the 1970's it would be rare to have a 6-7-8 year old becoming a communing member if you saw it at all. 12 was it and that was after you went through a communicants class.

Though peadocommunion is not allowed in the PCA or OPC, "covenant" communion is now the new "buzz" word to get around calling it peadocommunion. 

One thing that I find disturbing about having very young children becoming communing members is that parents as well as Session seem to forget that the child will also be entering into a Covenant with Christ's Church. The child will be required to make vows with God Almighty as the child's witness. Can a 6-7-8 year old really "pay his vows"? All parents and Sessions should read and re-read the chapter on Oaths and Vows in the WCF before considering putting their child in that position.


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## VictorBravo (Sep 21, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> It seems to me that sufficient continuity exists with regard to the substance of the Sacrament that we ought not throw off centuries of practice so easily. I dare say that children in an agrarian society probably grew up faster than our own and it is not a small thing that Christ Himself did not attend the "supper" until he was 12.



Especially considering that at 12, Jesus was interacting with elders as equals and even as a teacher.


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## jbergsing (Sep 21, 2007)

I didn't realize that the PCA had an official stance on the matter. I wish I would have known this before my kid started showing interest in it. To him, it's a matter of feeling left out. Obviously this isn't a valid reason to allow him to partake. Now to figure out how to deal with him.


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## wsw201 (Sep 21, 2007)

jbergsing said:


> I didn't realize that the PCA had an official stance on the matter. I wish I would have known this before my kid started showing interest in it. To him, it's a matter of feeling left out. Obviously this isn't a valid reason to allow him to partake. Now to figure out how to deal with him.



John,

Out of curiousity, do you think your child is ready to enter into Covenant with Christ's Church and is able to fulfill the membership vows as a communing member?


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## jbergsing (Sep 21, 2007)

wsw201 said:


> jbergsing said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't realize that the PCA had an official stance on the matter. I wish I would have known this before my kid started showing interest in it. To him, it's a matter of feeling left out. Obviously this isn't a valid reason to allow him to partake. Now to figure out how to deal with him.
> ...


Not yet, no. Honestly, right now he's more interested in drawing pictures during the sermons than listening (no children's church for his age during the service).


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## raderag (Sep 21, 2007)

Many PCA Churches practice the idea of "age appropriate" profession of faith, which means communion is given to many as young as 3.

My 11 year old starting taking it at 6-7, but I would have waited longer if I knew now what I knew then. She was probably ready 8-9.


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## fredtgreco (Sep 21, 2007)

raderag said:


> Many PCA Churches practice the idea of "age appropriate" profession of faith, which means communion is given to many as young as 3.
> 
> My 11 year old starting taking it at 6-7, but I would have waited longer if I knew now what I knew then. She was probably ready 8-9.



Age appropriate confessions are a very, very, very bad idea. It is, among other things, a disingenuous attempt to get around the clear prescribed practice of the BCO.


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## raderag (Sep 21, 2007)

fredtgreco said:


> raderag said:
> 
> 
> > Many PCA Churches practice the idea of "age appropriate" profession of faith, which means communion is given to many as young as 3.
> ...



I am not going to disagree with you there, but I just wanted to point out that is a common practice.


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