# ESV or HCSB?



## StephenMartyr (Sep 14, 2019)

Looking to get a new Bible. I have some KJVs, NKJVs an NIV and a Complete Jewish Bible (David Stern).

I'm between the ESV or HCSB. I know the HCSB comes with non-reformed notes but other than notes, what are your thoughts?


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## Dachaser (Sep 14, 2019)

StephenMartyr said:


> Looking to get a new Bible. I have some KJVs, NKJVs an NIV and a Complete Jewish Bible (David Stern).
> 
> I'm between the ESV or HCSB. I know the HCSB comes with non-reformed notes but other than notes, what are your thoughts?


Would prefer the Esv, as more of a formal translation.

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## Jake (Sep 14, 2019)

What are you looking for in a Bible? A certain type of binding/print size/etc.? A particular type of translation? A study Bible? A reference Bible? 

The HCSB is no longer in print, having been replaced by the newer CSB. I like the CSB better than the HCSB.


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## Jack K (Sep 14, 2019)

As mentioned above, the HCSB has been upgraded and is now the CSB. It's a significant improvement.

The ESV makes a bit more of a conscious effort to retain the language and cadences of translations past. It will sound a bit more like the KJV. I like that sometimes, but also find it clunky at times.

The CSB still sounds like the Bible, but reads a bit more smoothly. It's a well-done translation, like the NIV in its feel, but it comes without the concerns folks might have about an agenda within Zondervan.

I've grown used to the ESV over the past few decades. It's the one the authors I work with most often use, and it's used in my church. So I'm an ESV guy, and I find it to be more essential to have than the CSB is. I've edited dozens of Christian books, and so far only one of them has used the CSB as its primary translation.

But if I were starting from scratch, with no consideration for what others use or what I'm already familiar with, I'd probably be giving the CSB a hard look.

Notes only come into play if you're getting a study Bible or some other Bible that has notes added to it. The ESV Study Bible is excellent. I can't speak to any of the adult Bible options published by Holman (my CSB is just the Bible text), but in general I would have slightly higher expectations about the theology and pastoral guidance coming from a Crossway (ESV) publication than I would with a Holman (CSB) publication.

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## Dachaser (Sep 14, 2019)

Jack K said:


> As mentioned above, the HCSB has been upgraded and is now the CSB. It's a significant improvement.
> 
> The ESV makes a bit more of a conscious effort to retain the language and cadences of translations past. It will sound a bit more like the KJV. I like that sometimes, but also find it clunky at times.
> 
> ...


The Csb us the Niv done right, and really like the Esv SB, as many contributors there came from RB position.


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## JimmyH (Sep 14, 2019)

The ESV also removes verses that are not in the earliest manuscripts. It would be better if they did as the NASB and bracketed or footnoted them. That said, I have no hands on experience with the CSB, but I have gone to BibleHub where you can compare translations side by side. There is just something about their translation style that leads me to prefer the ESV, NIV 2011, NRSV. I'd suggest reading at BibleHub to compare before you commit.

Reactions: Like 3 | Informative 1


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 14, 2019)

The HCSB was an interesting translation that was a bit quirky. They can still be found for a very inexpensive price. The newer CSB is less quirky and overall pretty good if you don’t mind a more dynamic translation based on the critical text. Lifeway stores currently have all editions of the CSB at 40% off. 

The ESV is also an excellent translation that is more literal and traditional sounding than the CSB. There are also plenty of options in terms of study Bibles and other resources. 

Ultimately it depends on which style of translation you prefer.


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## Dachaser (Sep 14, 2019)

Romans922 said:


> Not the ESV for it removes verses from Holy Scripture. It cannot be seen as a valid translation in the slightest.


Only if you assume that the TR/MT are better Greek texts!


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## JennyGeddes (Sep 14, 2019)

I have a handsome CSB Charles Spurgeon study Bible. It is very easy to read because it has nice paper, a nice font, and it flows well. However, I pretty much only use my NASB. If I had to choose from the two you listed, I guess I’d choose CSB. I think the suggestion of using Bible Gateway to compare them all is a good one.


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## iainduguid (Sep 14, 2019)

Bill The Baptist said:


> The ESV is also an excellent translation that is more literal and traditional sounding than the CSB. There are also plenty of options in terms of study Bibles and other resources.


It's often claimed that the ESV is more literal than the CSB, but in my opinion (as a translator for the HCSB and editor for the CSB) that is overstated. All translations adopt an idiomatic approach at times (rightly), and there are plenty of times where the CSB is more literal than the ESV (e.g. "sons of Adam" for bne adam). We do sound less traditional (or archaic) than the ESV, but that is because the Hebrew we were translating is not, in most places, archaic Hebrew.

I don't have a problem with the ESV, and use it regularly, but I think the CSB does a slightly better job of rendering the text into contemporary English. However, the Holman has not supported the CSB with anything like the number of Reformed resources that Crossway has with the ESV. I don't think I can recommend any of the CSB study Bibles over the ESV equivalents. And most Reformed authors use the ESV rather than the CSB, as Jack noted (I'm probably the exception he mentioned - Thanks, Jack for a phenomenal job on the Jonah Bible Study!).

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## Pilgrim (Sep 14, 2019)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Lifeway stores currently have all editions of the CSB at 40% off.



That depends on the store. Many and perhaps most stores are already closed. The one in Baton Rouge, LA just went to 50% off of their CSB Bibles a few days ago. Their other Bibles are 20-25% off. I take that to mean that they have more CSB Bibles that they need to sell through compared to other translations. 

They said they don't have many KJVs left and will probably run out of those first. I'm not sure if that means that they simply had less KJVs in stock when the closeout started or if it is an example of the continued popularity of the KJV. Perhaps both.


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## JimmyH (Sep 14, 2019)

In terms of rendering the text into contemporary English I've always liked the NIV, but I find the NLT (don't hate me) is even more authentic in expressing itself in the vernacular I hear in every day discourse.

Reactions: Like 1 | Amen 1


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## Pilgrim (Sep 14, 2019)

The biggest disappointment that many will have with the CSB is an alleged pedestrian rendering of the Psalms, whereas even the NIV seems to have a more literary or poetic quality, not to mention the more "formal" translations such as the ESV, NKJV, and of course the KJV.


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 14, 2019)

iainduguid said:


> It's often claimed that the ESV is more literal than the CSB, but in my opinion (as a translator for the HCSB and editor for the CSB) that is overstated. All translations adopt an idiomatic approach at times (rightly), and there are plenty of times where the CSB is more literal than the ESV (e.g. "sons of Adam" for bne adam). We do sound less traditional (or archaic) than the ESV, but that is because the Hebrew we were translating is not, in most places, archaic Hebrew.
> 
> I don't have a problem with the ESV, and use it regularly, but I think the CSB does a slightly better job of rendering the text into contemporary English. However, the Holman has not supported the CSB with anything like the number of Reformed resources that Crossway has with the ESV. I don't think I can recommend any of the CSB study Bibles over the ESV equivalents. And most Reformed authors use the ESV rather than the CSB, as Jack noted (I'm probably the exception he mentioned - Thanks, Jack for a phenomenal job on the Jonah Bible Study!).



I agree that literal is often overused and misapplied when it comes to Bible translations. As a general rule, the ESV leans more towards the literal direction, but this is by no means monolithic nor is it necessarily to be preferred.


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 14, 2019)

Pilgrim said:


> That depends on the store. Many and perhaps most stores are already closed. The one in Baton Rouge, LA just went to 50% off of their CSB Bibles a few days ago. Their other Bibles are 20-25% off. I take that to mean that they have more CSB Bibles that they need to sell through compared to other translations.
> 
> They said they don't have many KJVs left and will probably run out of those first. I'm not sure if that means that they simply had less KJVs in stock when the closeout started or if it is an example of the continued popularity of the KJV. Perhaps both.



Very true. I should have said at least 40%, assuming the store in your area is still open.


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## Taylor (Sep 14, 2019)

Romans922 said:


> ...a Textual Criticism conversation...would probably be distracting to the OP.



But...you said this not even an hour prior:



Romans922 said:


> Not the ESV for it removes verses from Holy Scripture. It cannot be seen as a valid translation in the slightest.

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## bookslover (Sep 14, 2019)

The ESV, which I've been using for nearly 20 years now, is an excellent translation. I've read some of the CSB, and it reads a little flat (as in "bland") to me. Of course, that might be just me.

For my money, the ESV is the best translation out there.

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## bookslover (Sep 14, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> But...you said this not even an hour prior:



I was just thinking the same thing, Taylor.

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## greenbaggins (Sep 14, 2019)

Romans922 said:


> Not the ESV for it removes verses from Holy Scripture. It cannot be seen as a valid translation in the slightest.



This is rather highly overstated.

Reactions: Like 4 | Amen 2 | Sad 1


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## StephenMartyr (Sep 15, 2019)

Jake said:


> What are you looking for in a Bible? A certain type of binding/print size/etc.? A particular type of translation? A study Bible? A reference Bible?
> 
> The HCSB is no longer in print, having been replaced by the newer CSB. I like the CSB better than the HCSB.



Just a "newer reading" Bible. I'm familiar with the KJV. And now I have Ligonier's NKJV study Bible. I just wanted one more reading option with newer English is all. I'm not looking particularly for a study Bible (I have the Ligonier one), but just for reading.

EDIT:

Yeah...kinda looking at Schuyler's ESV...guilty as charged! But still up in the air between the two. Will look more into it.


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## bookslover (Sep 15, 2019)

StephenMartyr said:


> Yeah...kinda looking at Schuyler's ESV...guilty as charged! But still up in the air between the two. Will look more into it.



Steven: is Schuyler coming out with an ESV - something different from the ones they already offer? Do you know anything about it? Do tell! Inquiring minds want to know!


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## RJ Spencer (Sep 15, 2019)

ESV all the way. I have both the ESV Study Bible and the Reformation Study Bible, but for daily use I use the ESV Thompson Chain.
I would highly recommend any of those, but the Reformation Study Bible is phenomenal.
I prefer the newer CSB to the HCSB, the HCSB divided Bible verses in a unique way. For instance, the HCSB in Galatians 2 makes the "I have been crucified with Christ" portion of verse 20 a part of verse 19. This is no big deal if you are using it for reading, but I was a little thrown off by it.

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## Jake (Sep 15, 2019)

StephenMartyr said:


> Just a "newer reading" Bible. I'm familiar with the KJV. And now I have Ligonier's NKJV study Bible. I just wanted one more reading option with newer English is all. I'm not looking particularly for a study Bible (I have the Ligonier one), but just for reading.
> 
> EDIT:
> 
> Yeah...kinda looking at Schuyler's ESV...guilty as charged! But still up in the air between the two. Will look more into it.



I find the ESV to be cumbersome, especially in the OT where it has been less edited (the translators spent much more time in certain key theological books editing the RSV, while in other places there are barely any changes). The ESV retains certain parts of the feel of the KJV while in my opinion losing the literary elements that make it great. Just from a language perspective, I prefer the NKJV over the ESV.

If you're looking for newer English compared to the NKJV, I recommend you check out the CSB out of the 2 translations you mentioned in the OP. I would also take a look at the NIV 84 and the Evangelical Heritage Version.


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## beloved7 (Sep 15, 2019)

Can't speak for the CSB, but I'm a big advocate for the ESV. Strong translation that utilizes the CT while remaining in KJV tradition (RSV as the base), great publisher, comprehensive footnotes, formal equivalence and will be relevant for the rest of our lifetime.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Sep 15, 2019)

Jack K said:


> I've grown used to the ESV over the past few decades.



It has not even been out for two decades.

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## KMK (Sep 15, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> It has not even been out for two decades.



And yet it is already the standard English version.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Sep 15, 2019)

KMK said:


> And yet it is already the standard English version.



What would you know about what is standard English? You're a Murican.

Reactions: Funny 3


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## Jack K (Sep 15, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> It has not even been out for two decades.



I'm speaking roughly. It was first published in 2001. So there was the '00s. Then the '10s. But go ahead and get all logic-policey on me, my friend.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Jack K (Sep 15, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> It has not even been out for two decades.



I'm speaking roughly. It was first published in 2001. So there was the '00s. Then the '10s. But go ahead and get all logic-policey on me, my friend.


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## Jorge (Sep 16, 2019)

StephenMartyr said:


> Looking to get a new Bible. I have some KJVs, NKJVs an NIV and a Complete Jewish Bible (David Stern).
> 
> I'm between the ESV or HCSB. I know the HCSB comes with non-reformed notes but other than notes, what are your thoughts?



A couple of recommendations:
1) Holman KJV Study Bible is the only full-color KJV Study Bible and has all the HCSB study notes, for the most part, modified for the KJV translation. 

2) The KJV(ER) Easy Read www.kjver.com


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## Logan (Sep 16, 2019)

I used the CSB in family worship for a year and found it delightful. I like the continuity in phrasing the ESV has with some older translations but find I tend to prefer the NKJV if I'm going that route. I feel blessed to have such a plurality of good translations and I don't think either is going to be "better" than the other, there are very good things about both.

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## JimmyH (Sep 16, 2019)

I am a member of a Facebook group, Everything BIbles, which Dr William D. 'Bill' Mounce joined. He graciously did a question/answer session a couple of weeks ago that was very informative. 

One example of an answer to a great question is here; "First, I did not think the TNIV was a good translation in its handling of gender language. I signed the original protest against it. And I would not compare it to the NIV today; too different. I think the NIV/CSB/NET Bibles are the best for general reading because they are more understandable, and when you are listening to the text (as opposed to reading slowly), people don’t have time to process the meaning of the words as they would need to with the more formal equivalent translations. I read out of the NIV, read the NLT if I am not sure what something means (especially in the Old Testament), and the CSB for a new look at the text." 

I find it really interesting, and for some reason encouraging, that a PHD professor in Biblical languages finds it useful to read various English translations. 

At the link below anyone interested can access the whole session by expanding the 'comments'.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/everything.bibles/search/?query=Bill%20Mounce&epa=SEARCH_BOX

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## Dachaser (Sep 16, 2019)

JimmyH said:


> I am a member of a Facebook group, Everything BIbles, which Dr William D. 'Bill' Mounce joined. He graciously did a question/answer session a couple of weeks ago that was very informative.
> 
> One example of an answer to a great question is here; "First, I did not think the TNIV was a good translation in its handling of gender language. I signed the original protest against it. And I would not compare it to the NIV today; too different. I think the NIV/CSB/NET Bibles are the best for general reading because they are more understandable, and when you are listening to the text (as opposed to reading slowly), people don’t have time to process the meaning of the words as they would need to with the more formal equivalent translations. I read out of the NIV, read the NLT if I am not sure what something means (especially in the Old Testament), and the CSB for a new look at the text."
> 
> ...


I have always used the formal versions such as Bad and Esv, and did not have to run to a dictionary!


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## StephenMartyr (Oct 1, 2019)

Well my new CSB came in the mail not too long ago  Thought to try it out going through the book of Matthew. Look forward to it and God's blessings!


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