# Excellent Article On the Problems With "Contemporary" Music and Hymnody



## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 21, 2011)

A Young Person's Response to Don Sweeting


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## KMK (Jun 21, 2011)

But what about "Contemporvant" music?


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## sastark (Jun 21, 2011)

KMK said:


> But what about "Contemporvant" music?



I thought of that when I read the article, as well!

(and in case anyone is wondering, here is the video that explains "Contemporvant": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ys4Nx0rNlAM)


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 21, 2011)

That was brilliant.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 21, 2011)

Actually I thought this article was rather poor. All I got was "Contemporary music is not fit for churches because it doesn't sound like hymns and isn't what we have always sung".

---------- Post added at 02:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:18 PM ----------

Please don't take my comment on the article as an attack on hmnody or EP. I enjoy the Psalms and hymns very much (though I must confess my primary intake is in a more "contemporary" style) but I don't think this article did anything to defend against his position.


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## elnwood (Jun 21, 2011)

Unashamed 116 said:


> Actually I thought this article was rather poor. All I got was "Contemporary music is not fit for churches because it doesn't sound like hymns and isn't what we have always sung".



Agreed. The summary is in the closing paragraph:


> The catholicity of the Church demands that we not sacrifice our heritage for a passing trend, that we continually strive to make our tradition ever-vibrant through a deep knowledge of the past. It demands sacrificing our fickle desires on the altar of our Fathers' wisdom. Tradition is respect above all things- for that which has been found beneficial through all generations and has united, rather than divided, the Church in service to her Lord. For it is pleasing to God that, as our Lord Jesus prayed, we all be one.



In other words, worship should reflect the tradition and heritage of the church, and contemporary music is a "passing trend."

One, I don't agree that contemporary worship is not a passing trend. Hymns were "contemporary" in its day, and likewise criticized. Now, it's become "tradition" and "heritage." No doubt our contemporary worship will become part of our tradition as well. Even now, we're seeing a generation divide between the modern contemporary worship from the 90s and 00s and the earlier contemporary worship from the 70s and 80s.

Two, I wonder if the author would complain about the expressions of worship in places like Africa because they don't reflect the Western tradition and heritage of worship. There is a place for the development of an indigenous form of worship.


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## Rufus (Jun 21, 2011)

> Now, it's become "tradition" and "heritage." No doubt our contemporary worship will become part of our tradition as well. Even now, we're seeing a generation divide between the modern contemporary worship from the 90s and 00s and the earlier contemporary worship from the 70s and 80s.



Most Hymns, at least the ones most people sing, are theologically deep and most (not all) contemporary songs are shallow.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 21, 2011)

Rufus said:


> > Now, it's become "tradition" and "heritage." No doubt our contemporary worship will become part of our tradition as well. Even now, we're seeing a generation divide between the modern contemporary worship from the 90s and 00s and the earlier contemporary worship from the 70s and 80s.
> 
> 
> 
> Most Hymns, at least the ones most people sing, are theologically deep and most (not all) contemporary songs are shallow.



I would agree with that. This article never addresses this though. There are some artists out there putting out deep music that is very worshipful and thought provoking. Michael Bleecker from the Village Church (Matt Chandler) has put out 2 albums that are full of goodness. "Don't throw the baby out with the bath water" with hymns, psalms, or "contemporary" Christian music.


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## Peairtach (Jun 21, 2011)

I think to be exposed to Contemporary Christian Music in regular worship services is to open oneself to thinking of God as the Great Entertainer in the Sky.

If the preaching is really solid alongside the CCM there may be one good message coming from the preaching and yet a more or less deliterious message coming from the sung worship.

The style of the sung worship of a congregation does affect how the worshippers think and feel about God and themselves in relation to Him. I'm not saying unbiblical or less than ideal biblical worship overthrows their faith, but it does have an effect on them.


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## Rufus (Jun 21, 2011)

Richard Tallach said:


> The style of the sung worship of a congregation does affect how the worshippers think and feel about God and themselves in relation to Him. I'm not saying unbiblical or less than ideal biblical worship overthrows their faith, but it does have an effect on them.



That kinda relates back to what I said about a lot of contemporary being shallow is because the writers have a shallow view of God.


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## KMK (Jun 22, 2011)

Unashamed 116 said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > > Now, it's become "tradition" and "heritage." No doubt our contemporary worship will become part of our tradition as well. Even now, we're seeing a generation divide between the modern contemporary worship from the 90s and 00s and the earlier contemporary worship from the 70s and 80s.
> ...



Thanks for the tip. Here is the site: http://fm.thevillagechurch.net/music

Stuart Townend and Sandra McCracken also have good hymns set to contemporary style.


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## discipulo (Jun 22, 2011)

I must be really getting old, hopefully wiser too, SDG . 25 years ago I thought Contemporary Worship was great, when I went to Utrecht - Holland for Mission 90, Graham Kendrick and Band was the "worship leader" every day of the conference and, wow, I liked it a lot. 

But then I discovered the Hymns of Watts, Toplady, Doddridge, Newton and yes, even Wesley, and Contemporary just started to look pretty shallow and simplistic. 

For the last couple of years I've came slowly to the understanding that nothing but the Psalms is God's Hymnal given to the Church.

Only the Psalms have God as the Lord at the center, the beginning and the end of history, Redemptive History, World History and Personal History.

No ego trips, no false self triumphalism, no easy journey either! Just a lot of suffering,a lot of tears, a lot of perplexity, a lot of joy, a lot of comfort and a lot of assurance because the Lord Reigns, always, in every situation.

Today in Toronto, Canada, an 8 year old daughter of a christian couple is having an open heart surgery that very likely will take her away from her loving parents into the Perfect Love, Peace and Glory of Her Lord and Shepherd.

I'm sure the only way these parents will be able to Worship their God will be with groans, tears and the Psalms !

Nothing else will do.


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## raekwon (Jun 30, 2011)

That article made my head hurt.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 30, 2011)

raekwon said:


> That article made my head hurt.



It made other parts of me hurt.

---------- Post added at 03:31 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:24 PM ----------

Derek Webb has put out a ton of ggod stuff and if you want a more rock style then Jeremy Camp and Ascend the Hill are your ticket. The "all CCM music is junk" argument doesn't hold...and that's coming from a guy who generally dislikes CCM.


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## Peairtach (Jun 30, 2011)

With constant exposure in regular worship to the CCM and concert-style worship people think of God as the Great Entertainer in the Sky. 

With constant exposure to more traditional hymns He becomes the Victorian Grand Pappy.

The sense of our relationship to Him also alters somewhat.

You also have the problem of at least some theological error in the post-canonical songs.

The unaccompanied Psalms transcend all this cultural baggage, which suffocates the worship to an extent at least.

If brothers and sisters want a bit of variety they can put a cd on the player or go to a Christian concert.


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## raekwon (Jun 30, 2011)

Richard Tallach said:


> The unaccompanied Psalms transcend all this cultural baggage...



And come laden with their own.


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## KevinInReno (Jun 30, 2011)

Often ignored in the Psalmody or Bible Only songs vs debate is the fact that... even if wrong in the Psalmody/Bible Only camp, at least you never sing heresy which is always a possibility with songs inspired from man.


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## ChariotsofFire (Jun 30, 2011)

KevinInReno said:


> Often ignored in the Psalmody or Bible Only songs vs debate is the fact that... even if wrong in the Psalmody/Bible Only camp, at least you never sing heresy which is always a possibility with songs inspired from man.



Hi Kevin,

Without getting too much into the EP debate, I don't think the fact that uninspired songs may contain error should keep us from singing uninspired songs. One of the very purposes of having elders is to guard worship, and elders can guard which songs we sing in worship. Songs are easier to guard against heresy than preaching and prayer (as we can examine the songs before we sing them). As a side note, I think we should view many songs charitably, and assume the best of the author's intent while we sing them (although, I don't like the idea of singing Away in the Manger, but that's a story for another day).


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## MW (Jun 30, 2011)

discipulo said:


> No ego trips, no false self triumphalism, no easy journey either! Just a lot of suffering,a lot of tears, a lot of perplexity, a lot of joy, a lot of comfort and a lot of assurance because the Lord Reigns, always, in every situation.


 
That hits the nail squarely on the head. Thankyou, Cesar.


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## MW (Jun 30, 2011)

Richard Tallach said:


> The sense of our relationship to Him also alters somewhat.



That's true. Singing uninspired hymns, I speak to God. Singing inspired Psalms, Christ speaks to me. Hebrews 2:12.


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## JBaldwin (Jun 30, 2011)

> That kinda relates back to what I said about a lot of contemporary being shallow is because the writers have a shallow view of God.



While this is an entirely true statement, the flip side of this is that a lot of contemporary music is not shallow and the writers do not have a shallow view of God. 

It is true that for a large percentage in the CCM community it is all about style first and content second. However, in most of the reformed churches where I've attended content comes before style. In fact, in the reformed community of worship leaders (of which I am an active part), music is chosen based on content, biblical and theological accuracy, singability for the congregation, and style in that order. Most of these same worship leaders are also concerned that the Psalms be sung regularly in worship. The worship in these churches is rich, meaningful and theologically accurate. 

While I agree that the CCM presented in a lot of evangelical and seeker-friendly churches is shallow and entertaining, I rarely see that in worship in the reformed churches represented on this board or in the PCA community of which I am a part. 

It is dangerous In my humble opinion to lump everyone together as if to assume that just because someone isn't EP and likes a more contemporary style of music they are shallow and have a shallow view of God. Frankly, I've attended a few EP churches over the years, and I could make accusations about the worship which I refuse to make, because I know that not every EP church is like the ones I visited.


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## KevinInReno (Jul 1, 2011)

ChariotsofFire said:


> KevinInReno said:
> 
> 
> > Often ignored in the Psalmody or Bible Only songs vs debate is the fact that... even if wrong in the Psalmody/Bible Only camp, at least you never sing heresy which is always a possibility with songs inspired from man.
> ...



But if it's a _living word_ and _doesn't return void_ why not use those words during worship instead of words without such a biblical promise?

Worship is the most important thing we do week in and week out. I can listen to Chris Tomlin, Jeremy Camp, etc on my own time. On the Lord's Day I want to sing from His song book. The most clever of lyrics can't come close to how awesome it is to sing Psalms now fulfilled by Christ.


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## Marrow Man (Jul 1, 2011)

Rufus said:


> Most Hymns, at least the ones most people sing, are theologically deep and most (not all) contemporary songs are shallow.



The thing you have to be careful with is that there are some really BAD hymns that have some history and find their way into hymnals used today. Two examples that come to mind are "In the Garden" and the Shaker hymn "'Tis a Gift to Be Simple." Also, some of the hymns that came out of American revivalism were very similar in many ways to some CC songs in that the design is emotional manipulation. One example that comes to mind is how Isaac Watt's "Alas and Did My Savior Bleed" was taken and set to a different tune and had a chorus added; it became the revivalistic hymn "At the Cross."


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## JBaldwin (Jul 1, 2011)

Why do these discussions seem to into an EP debate? This is not a debate over EP but over style. Here is the text to a favorite CCM song of mine:

_“To You O Lord”
To You, O Lord, I lift up my soul. In You I trust, O my God.
Do not let me be put to shame, Don’t let my enemies triumph over me.

Show me Your ways and teach me Your paths
Guide me in truth lead me on.
For You’re my God; You are my Savior
My hope is in You each moment of the day.


No one whose hope is in You will ever be put to shame.
That’s why my eyes are on You, O Lord.
Surround me, defend me, oh how I need You.
To You I lift up my soul, To you I lift my soul.

Remember, Lord, Your mercy and love
That ever flow from of old.
Remember not the sins of my youth
Or my rebellious ways
According to Your love, remember me,
According to Your love, for You are good, O Lord._

Last I knew this is directly from the Psalms. A number of CCM songs we sing in our church are entire Psalms set to music not just a few verses as this one is. Does that make them unbiblical? I don't believe so.


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## PreservedKillick (Jul 19, 2011)

I prefer to assess each hymn according to its theological content, traditional or contemporary. My bias is for traditional (and I don't count the sentimental revivalist hymns of the late 19th and early 20th century among those) mainly because there has been more time for godly men to examine them and consider whether they honor God and are appropriate for worship. Some contemporary hymnody is very good, but we've had less time to exercise the same quality control, for want of a better phrase. I appreciate some of the new hymns, but it bothers me when churches sing any contemporary song just because it is contemporary, without considering the lyrics. Being contemporary shouldn't become a value in and of itself.


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## Hebrew Student (Jul 19, 2011)

Kevin,



> Often ignored in the Psalmody or Bible Only songs vs debate is the fact that... even if wrong in the Psalmody/Bible Only camp, at least you never sing heresy which is always a possibility with songs inspired from man.



The problem is that this destroys anything that is not scripture. For example, confessions come from men, and therefore, there is always the possibility of heresy when you use confessions. Does that mean we should not use confessions in our worship services? Also, uninspired sermons also have the possibility of containing heresy. Trust me, if you listen to television sermons long enough, you can find heresy easily. Does that mean that we shouldn't use sermons simply because they are uninspired, and possibly heretical?

I think the real issue is whether or not God can condescend to speak to us in a way in which we can understand. If God can, indeed, do that, then there is absolutely no problem. Language has a certain "semantic range" about it. The key is staying within that semantic range. That requires knowledge of the scriptures, and understanding how its system of thought works. However, the apostle Paul tells us that it requires due dilligence to rightly handle the word of truth [2 Timothy 2:15].

The main problem with so much of contemporary worship music is, as many people have pointed out, the shallowness of the understanding of scripture that is found within. People simply are unwilling to put the hard, dilligent work into understanding exactly what the scriptures say. There are times when I have heard a poor exegesis of the text, and all it would have taken to disprove it is simply going to an English Bible, and looking at the context.

When you don't care what God has said, and you do not care about his intent in speaking to us, yes, you will get lyrics, confessions, and sermons that are as shallow as rain puddles, and even heretical. However, through due dilligence and hard work, we can come to understand what God has communicated to us.

God Bless,
Adam


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## Gage Browning (Jul 20, 2011)

raekwon said:


> That article made my head hurt.


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## PreservedKillick (Jul 20, 2011)

I felt like the author was hampered in making his point by the brevity of the article. I've started reading Dr. Gordon's _Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns_, and I recommend it as a much more fleshed out argument along similar lines. Gordon also makes the very useful point that many of the hymns and styles of music the modern church sees as traditional aren't really that old--and a lot of confusion in the debate comes from a misundertanding of what traditional hymnody really is.



Joseph Scibbe said:


> Actually I thought this article was rather poor. All I got was "Contemporary music is not fit for churches because it doesn't sound like hymns and isn't what we have always sung".


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## Pilgrim (Jul 21, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > Most Hymns, at least the ones most people sing, are theologically deep and most (not all) contemporary songs are shallow.
> ...



We can add Fosdick's "God of Grace and God of Glory" as well, which has made its way into many evangelical hymnals. The Singspiration music is hardly any better than CCM and is sometimes worse.


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