# Reformed Dogmatics



## TheocraticMonarchist (Aug 17, 2008)

What are your thoughts on Herman Bavinick, and Richard A. Muller?

I’m looking at their books on Reformed Dogmatics, and am considering making a purchase some time. What do you guys think?

Reformed Dogmatics, 4 Volumes - By: Herman Bavinck - Christianbook.com

Post-Reformation Reformed Dogmatics, 4 Volumes - By: Richard A. Muller - Christianbook.com


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## toddpedlar (Aug 17, 2008)

They're two quite different works. If you want a complete systematic theology from one of the best, buy Bavinck. If you want something more modern that teaches the history of development and application of some doctrines (the trinity, attributes of God, and Scripture as foundation for theology), buy the Muller.

Of course, if you have the $, buy both


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## TheocraticMonarchist (Aug 17, 2008)

So they're pretty solid guys? Any other recommendations?


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## toddpedlar (Aug 17, 2008)

TheocraticMonarchist said:


> So they're pretty solid guys? Any other recommendations?



VERY solid. Bavinck is one of the best 20th century voices you can find, and his Reformed Dogmatics is at the top of my list of reformed systematic theologies. Again, Muller's really isn't a full-fledged systematic theology, but the topics he does address are done very well, and very soundly. 

Among other systematics (there is a thread that discusses this) I would suggest Turretin and a Brakel, and for another more modern systematic, Reymond. Calvin's Institutes are also indispensable, but I wouldn't describe that work as a systematic theology in quite the same way as the others are.


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## sotzo (Aug 17, 2008)

Jonathan:

What makes Bavinck so valuable, in my opinion, is both the breadth and depth of what he covers. He not only raises the biblical foundation for what he teaches, but shows how it engages other worldviews. He was very concerned that dogmatics not be relegated to just the classroom , but also to engage culture.


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## JohnGill (Aug 17, 2008)

Buy Bavinck. If you have to sell your blood to get the money, buy Bavinck.


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## sotzo (Aug 17, 2008)

JohnGill said:


> Buy Bavinck. If you have to sell your blood to get the money, buy Bavinck.



 not far off there! it is certainly at least worth the plasma!


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## DMcFadden (Aug 17, 2008)

Louis Berkhof relied heavily upon Bavinck. In fact, some have said that Berkhof's one volume systematics "is something of an abridgement of Bavinek’s Reformed Dogmatics." So, if you want it boring and derivative, buy Berkhof; if you want it up straight and sharp, buy Bavinck.

Muller is one of the premier historical theologians, specializing in Reformation and Post Reformation dogmatics in the world. His four volumes are considered indispensible in understanding Reformed theology following Calvin.

And, Muller deserves credit for a quick (and slightly subversive) sense of humor when he was teaching at Fuller. Fuller was insufferable about "inclusive language" during his time there, even for the Deity. Muller responded by customarily calling Satan by the feminine pronouns "she" and "her."


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## bookslover (Aug 17, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Louis Berkhof relied heavily upon Bavinck. In fact, some have said that Berkhof's one volume systematics "is something of an abridgement of Bavinek’s Reformed Dogmatics." So, if you want it boring and derivative, buy Berkhof; if you want it up straight and sharp, buy Bavinck.
> 
> Muller is one of the premier historical theologians, specializing in Reformation and Post Reformation dogmatics in the world. His four volumes are considered indispensible in understanding Reformed theology following Calvin.
> 
> And, Muller deserves credit for a quick (and slightly subversive) sense of humor when he was teaching at Fuller. Fuller was insufferable about "inclusive language" during his time there, even for the Deity. Muller responded by customarily calling Satan by the feminine pronouns "she" and "her."



There are few theological fads that Fooler Teleological Cemetery has not been interested in over the years...


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## bookslover (Aug 17, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Of course, if you have the $, buy both



Even if you don't have the money, buy both.


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## JohnGill (Aug 17, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Louis Berkhof relied heavily upon Bavinck. In fact, some have said that Berkhof's one volume systematics "is something of an abridgement of Bavinek’s Reformed Dogmatics." So, if you want it boring and derivative, buy Berkhof; if you want it up straight and sharp, buy Bavinck.
> 
> Muller is one of the premier historical theologians, specializing in Reformation and Post Reformation dogmatics in the world. His four volumes are considered indispensible in understanding Reformed theology following Calvin.
> 
> And, Muller deserves credit for a quick (and slightly subversive) sense of humor when he was teaching at Fuller. Fuller was insufferable about "inclusive language" during his time there, even for the Deity. *Muller responded by customarily calling Satan by the feminine pronouns "she" and "her."*



I love that!! Good for him. 

I have Berkhof's as well. Sell your blood and maybe a kidney and buy Bavinck. Berkhof's is good for finding things quickly and getting a basic structure. Bavinck will make you think. And give you a headache. And think some more. And make you go familiarize yourself with something from philosophy you forgot. And think some more. So buy Bavinck.

In case I haven't made it clear, *BUY BAVINCK!*

BTW I'm a Baptist and love reading Gill.


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## py3ak (Aug 17, 2008)

I've noticed Muller's subversive sense of humor. As in footnote 33 from PRRD, I. p.231:



> Note the radical misreading of Turretin in Rogers and McKim, _Authority and Interpretation_, p.187: "While scholastic theologians did not claim to know all that God knew extensively, they claimed a one-to-one correspondence between the theological knowledge they had and the way in which God himself knew it." What is in fact lacking is anything like a one-to-one correspondence between Rogers' statements and the seventeenth-century materials.


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## DMcFadden (Aug 18, 2008)

Ruben,

Good for Muller! I had Rogers at Fuller back in the mid 70s. A couple of years ago he wrote: *Jesus, The Bible, and Homosexuality: Explode the Myths, Heal the Church*. I'm sorry to note that his ability to say absolutely outrageous things with thin substantiation has not changed over the years.


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## DeoOpt (Aug 18, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> They're two quite different works. If you want a complete systematic theology from one of the best, buy Bavinck. If you want something more modern that teaches the history of development and application of some doctrines (the trinity, attributes of God, and Scripture as foundation for theology), buy the Muller.
> 
> Of course, if you have the $, buy both





I would also invst in Shed's book to


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## JohnGill (Aug 18, 2008)

DeoOpt said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> > They're two quite different works. If you want a complete systematic theology from one of the best, buy Bavinck. If you want something more modern that teaches the history of development and application of some doctrines (the trinity, attributes of God, and Scripture as foundation for theology), buy the Muller.
> ...



W. G. T. Shedd? Available online at either archive.org or Google books.


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## caddy (Aug 18, 2008)

TheocraticMonarchist said:


> What are your thoughts on Herman Bavinick, and Richard A. Muller?
> 
> I’m looking at their books on Reformed Dogmatics, and am considering making a purchase some time. What do you guys think?
> 
> ...


 
and if you buy Bavinck, buy it cheaper here:
Westminster Bookstore - Reformed Books - Low Prices - Flat Fee UPS Shipping - Reformed Dogmatics, 4 Volume Set by Bavinck, Herman 9780801035760


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 25, 2008)

So is there any truth to the rumor that Bavinck (or his editors) was a Boston Red Sox fan and that's what accounts for the letter 'B' at the bottom of the cover spine?


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## JohnGill (Aug 25, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> So is there any truth to the rumor that Bavinck (or his editors) was a Boston Red Sox fan and that's what accounts for the letter 'B' at the bottom of the cover spine?



Nope. Bavinck was a closet Baptist. The 'B' is code for us Baptists to buy his books.


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