# Method of Evangelism to Roman Catholics?



## Moireach (Dec 17, 2011)

I am a student in university and am on the Christian Union committee and this is actually to do with which method to use in the university setting and not church.

My university has a large number of Roman Catholics. The aim of the Christian Union is to give every single student on campus the opportunity to hear and respond to the gospel. There are 17,000 people in my university. *Very* few of them have been reached in times past by the C.U because of liberal methods of evangelism, namely the 'bait method' of enticing unbelievers in to events using entertainment and throwing a 5 minute gospel talk in at the end. A method I despise.

*So.* I thought that one way to reach Roman Catholics with the gospel would be to advertise a Catholic or Protestant debate to be held in a big lecture theatre known by all. In Scotland of course this is a very topical issue and it has been for hundreds of years, and I'm confident a well run advertising campaign featuring banners and posters and all kinds of things receive much attention. 

It would involve a Protestant minister, I know some who are well equipped for such a debate, and some RC representative, maybe a priest. The debate would run by topics being thrown out for short talks by each person successively. E.g, justification would be given to them and they could talk for 5 minutes each, then church tradition, then Mary, and so on. I would ensure the RC spoke first, giving the Christian the obvious advantage.

So my question here is, is it right to hold a debate which gives an RC the chance to put Roman Catholic views across?

Here are my thoughts:
*Yes:* For Catholics to come, they need to see it as a debate rather than a talk on Protestantism, who's reputation has been tarnished by sectarianism here. I just know they would never come otherwise, yet this would be a very interesting event for them. The Holy Spirit works in the hearts of the elect, this way though RC views are put across by one side, the gospel is clearly and plainly shown to everyone in the room by the other. This already gives everybody in the room the chance to hear the gospel - many for the first time ever - and respond to it. The Holy Spirit enlightens the mind to know truth from error, therefore false views put across by an RC would be a small price to pay for giving everyone the chance to hear the gospel for the first time and respond to it.

*No:* Should the CU ever give a reprobate a platform at all? I am cautious before thinking of going ahead with this because of the damaging doctrine of the RC church, and I'm not sure if it's ever right to give them a platform like a debate does.


----------



## Galatians220 (Dec 17, 2011)

I don't know if the RC has "evolved" in Scotland as it has here in the States, but nowadays, when one debates a Catholic, one debates new age mysticism as much as - or more than - traditional RC teaching. Here's a good article (The other side of the Catholic tradition - Guest Voices - The Washington Post) about Catholic mysticism as it is now. A lot of Reformed and other Protestants don't see the inroads that this philosophy has made into current Catholic doctrinal teaching and preaching. 

Teilhard de Chardin was ascendant in popularity and influence on young people when I was getting my first degree at the Jesuit University of Detroit. He, along with Henri Nouwen, strongly influenced modern-day Catholicism; they should both be considered if one is going to appeal to Catholics with the real Gospel. Being forced to read de Chardin at U-D, along with a required course in existential phenomenology that was taught by a Jesuit, sent me screaming from the RCC briefly in the early '70s. My final door slam on it took place 20 years later, though.

A debate such as you propose would stir up a lot of people but those who'd need to hear the real Gospel might not have ears to hear, or at least, not yet. As you imply, the Lord draws out of the RCC those He will; He is to be praised for His grace, mercy and love to all whom He leads out of false churches.


----------



## Jack K (Dec 17, 2011)

My first thought...

Perhaps such a debate will open a few students up to considering things they'd never thought about before, IF the students at your school are interested in such matters. But most often, hearts are not won for Christ through logical arguments. People initially need to hear Christ-exalting and gospel-proclaming preaching and teaching more than they need debates. Then, when they're at the point where they'd _like_ to believe if only they could get over this-or-that hurdle, they need to have their issues addressed with more debate-type arguments.

Again, perhaps a debate can break down a few barriers. But be ready to do more. Remember that ultimately people aren't usually argued into the Kingdom using logic and persuasion. They're drawn in using the beauty of Christ and his Gospel.


----------



## Wayne (Dec 17, 2011)

I was surprised to discover in some recent reading that the Orthodox Presbyterian Church has a long history of apologetics toward Roman Catholicism.
See for instance Danny Olinger's article in Ordained Servant: 

Ordained Servant Online

and also some of the work of Robert Strimple and Cornelius Van Til. 

I would urge you to invest a good amount of time in prayer and to read up so as to make the best decisions, including who to invite as a speaker.
You might also read up on Francis Schaeffer's "debate" with Bishop Pike. Schaeffer wasn't so much interested in winning a debate as in winning Pike to saving faith in Christ. 
An excellent model for anything you might do.


----------



## Moireach (Dec 17, 2011)

Galatians220 said:


> I don't know if the RC has "evolved" in Scotland as it has here in the States, but nowadays, when one debates a Catholic, one debates new age mysticism as much as - or more than - traditional RC teaching. Here's a good article (The other side of the Catholic tradition - Guest Voices - The Washington Post) about Catholic mysticism as it is now. A lot of Reformed and other Protestants don't see the inroads that this philosophy has made into current Catholic doctrinal teaching and preaching.
> 
> Teilhard de Chardin was ascendant in popularity and influence on young people when I was getting my first degree at the Jesuit University of Detroit. He, along with Henri Nouwen, strongly influenced modern-day Catholicism; they should both be considered if one is going to appeal to Catholics with the real Gospel. Being forced to read de Chardin at U-D, along with a required course in existential phenomenology that was taught by a Jesuit, sent me screaming from the RCC briefly in the early '70s. My final door slam on it took place 20 years later, though.
> 
> A debate such as you propose would stir up a lot of people but those who'd need to hear the real Gospel might not have ears to hear, or at least, not yet. As you imply, the Lord draws out of the RCC those He will; He is to be praised for His grace, mercy and love to all whom He leads out of false churches.


Thanks for the information!

---------- Post added at 11:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:21 PM ----------




Jack K said:


> My first thought...
> 
> Perhaps such a debate will open a few students up to considering things they'd never thought about before, IF the students at your school are interested in such matters. But most often, hearts are not won for Christ through logical arguments. People initially need to hear Christ-exalting and gospel-proclaming preaching and teaching more than they need debates. Then, when they're at the point where they'd _like_ to believe if only they could get over this-or-that hurdle, they need to have their issues addressed with more debate-type arguments.
> 
> Again, perhaps a debate can break down a few barriers. But be ready to do more. Remember that ultimately people aren't usually argued into the Kingdom using logic and persuasion. They're drawn in using the beauty of Christ and his Gospel.



I agree with what you say, absolutely. But I don't really see what I'm planning as an argument filled with logic as such though. I see it more as what you say, Christ exalting and gospel proclaiming. There would be a whole list of topics, which would be more focused on justification and Christ, basically the absolute essentials. So rather than being a technical argument, or arguments on history, the minister would be simply preaching the gospel. He would be asked to give the Protestant's view on justification and he would simply preach the gospel in it's fulness, supported with Bible texts. I see this as a very different kind of debate to say for example a debate on science. It's purely focused on the actual gospel. The important thing to remember is that I choose the topics for discussion.

What do you think?

---------- Post added at 11:33 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:30 PM ----------




Wayne said:


> I was surprised to discover in some recent reading that the Orthodox Presbyterian Church has a long history of apologetics toward Roman Catholicism.
> See for instance Danny Olinger's article in Ordained Servant:
> 
> Ordained Servant Online
> ...



Thanks for the information. Very true. The person I have in mind is an Irishman who trained to be a priest. But obviously at this stage this is a far off idea which I'm simply just thinking about at this stage.


----------



## dudley (Dec 17, 2011)

Jack K said:


> My first thought...
> 
> Perhaps such a debate will open a few students up to considering things they'd never thought about before, IF the students at your school are interested in such matters. But most often, hearts are not won for Christ through logical arguments. People initially need to hear Christ-exalting and gospel-proclaming preaching and teaching more than they need debates. Then, when they're at the point where they'd _like_ to believe if only they could get over this-or-that hurdle, they need to have their issues addressed with more debate-type arguments.
> 
> Again, perhaps a debate can break down a few barriers. But be ready to do more. Remember that ultimately people aren't usually argued into the Kingdom using logic and persuasion. They're drawn in using the beauty of Christ and his Gospel.



I AGREE WITH OUR BROTHER JACK AND I HAVE OFTEN PUSHED FOR EVANGELIZING Roman Catholics here on the PB.…if you can get Catholics to have a conversion experience in a Protestant setting….you will win them over to the true Gospel and the Reformed faith. Most Protestant churches have dynamic youth programs, vibrant Wednesday and Sunday evening services, and friendly small-group bible studies. In addition, they host special crusades, seminars and concerts. At the invitation of a Protestant friend, a Catholic may begin attending one or more of these events while still going to Sunday Mass at his local parish. 

Most Protestant services proclaim a simple gospel: repent from sin and follow Christ in faith. They stress the importance of a personal relationship with Jesus and the reward of eternal life. Most of the Catholics who attend these services are not accustomed to hearing such direct challenges to abandon sin and follow Christ. As a result, many Catholics experience a genuine conversion. 
We have more than a dozen former RC catholic families in our Presbyterian church who are now Protestants as I am. We now have a few more Catholics attending Sunday services and exploring the Presbyterian church.

Studies show about five out of ten people adopt the beliefs of the denomination where they have their conversion. This percentage is even higher for those who had profound conversions or charismatic experiences that were provided by Protestants. Protestant pastors, evangelists, youth leaders, and lay ministers are acutely aware that conversion experiences in Protestant settings often lead to a Protestant faith and church membership. I know I was one!

I am a Presbyterian and a Reformed Protestant now because I believe in the teachings of the Presbyterian church and the Principals of the Reformed faith and the Protestant Reformation. I renounced Roman Catholicism completely and embraced the Reformed Faith and made a public affirmation of faith as a Presbyterian after having “a born again experience’ in a Protestant setting. I experienced what John Calvin described as a True Protestant Conversion.


----------



## Moireach (Dec 20, 2011)

Anyone have any further thoughts?


----------

