# *Assurance*



## Scott Shahan (Nov 14, 2006)

If one has trouble or find that one can not seem to forgive someone for a wrong can one really be assured of one's own salvation? This question is just something that I have been wrestling with.

Have you ever questioned whether you are saved or not? After reading Jonathan Edwards "religious affections" One thought that came to mind is that, I wonder if I am really what I think that I am. If I am not a believer this is truly somekind of self-deception. I need some stuff on assurance. All I know is that Jesus came into my life back in 1993 and I have never been the same since.  

Scott


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 14, 2006)

Here is some recommended reading on the subject of assurance:

The Book of Psalms
Romans 7-8
1 John 
Westminster Confession of Faith, Chap. 18
Westminster Larger Catechism #80-81
Heidelberg Catechism #21, etc.

Obadiah Sedgewick, _The Doubting Believer_
William Guthrie, _The Christian's Great Interest_
Willem Teellinck, _The Path of True Godliness_
William Bridge, _A Lifting Up for the Downcast_
Thomas Brooks, _Heaven on Earth: A Treatise on Christian Assurance_
Joel Beeke, _Assurance: Promises, Inward Evidences, the Spirit's Witness_
Joel Beeke, _A Quest for Full Assurance: Legacy of Calvin and his Successors_
Joel Beeke, _Assurance of Faith: Calvin, English Puritanism, and the Dutch Second Reformation_ 
Louis Berkhof, _The Assurance of Faith: The Firm Foundation of the Christian Hope_
Petrus Dathenus, _The Pearl of Christian Comfort_
Gisbertus Voetius and Johannes Hoornbeeck, _Spiritual Desertion_
Jean Taffin, _The Marks of God's Children_
Wilhelmus a Brakel, _The Christian's Reasonable Service_
Robert Bolton, _Comfortable Walking With God_
Henry Scudder, _The Christian's Daily Walk_
John Bunyan, _Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners_
A.A. Hodge, _Assurance and Humility_
Augustus Toplady, _Thoughts on the Assurance of Faith_
John Murray, _Behind a Frowning Providence_
J.C. Ryle, _Are You Born Again?_
J.C. Ryle, _Faith and Assurance_
Thomas Watson, _A Test of Assurance_
John Owen, _Gospel Grounds and Evidences of the Faith of God’s Elect_


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## Civbert (Nov 14, 2006)

Would an unbeliever worry about these things?


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## BJClark (Nov 14, 2006)

Civbert;



> Would an unbeliever worry about these things?



Actually, they might if the Holy Spirit is convicting them. 

Though I don't think they would worry about forgiving someone though, if that is more what you mean't I'm in agreement.


Scott,



> If one has trouble or find that one can not seem to forgive someone for a wrong can one really be assured of one's own salvation?



I think many Christians struggle with not being able to forgive others. 

I believe though, that when we struggle to forgive, it's God's way of teaching us more about Him, and His own forgiveness and grace towards us and our sins against Him.

have you asked yourself...

Is it so great an offense, that Christ did not die on the cross for it, even if they don't accept Christ's payment?


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## Civbert (Nov 14, 2006)

BJClark said:


> Civbert;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Hmmm. Yes, you are right - an unbeliever might begin to worry about going to hell - and would not really worry about forgiving someone. 

I think an unbeliever, though, would not worry so much about his sin being the reason for his being in danger of going to hell. He may worry more about not being good enough for heaven. He might not think that the least sin is enough to send him to hell. A believer is aware of this, and that only by God's grace is he saved. For certainly every believer recognizes he is a sinner. And the believer will not like that part of himself that wants to hang on to his sin. 

So as ironic as it seems, the fact that Scott is worrying about this is itself a good sign. It may not be enough for real assurance, but it is a good thing he's aware of his sin and desires to rid himself of it. 

Forgiving someone is hard because it's sometimes hard to tell when you really have forgiven them. It's not like you really can forget an offense. I think it takes time and effort and most of all, prayer. I think forgiveness is like faith in one aspect, you need to look for evidence that it is genuine. 

It's also like faith in that one should not let emotions confuse you. People confuse faith with psychological/emotional confidence and happyness and wonder why the "inner peace" and joy they felt when they said the "sinners prayer" during a revival meeting has faded away. And people think they have not forgiven when they still feel hurt by the offense, or just don't feel good about the offender all the time.


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## Puddleglum (Nov 14, 2006)

Scott,
I hear ya! Have you talked to your pastor / elders about this? If you haven't - please do, cause they can help you better than any of us on a message board.


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## Scott Shahan (Nov 14, 2006)

Puddleglum said:


> Scott,
> I hear ya! Have you talked to your pastor / elders about this? If you haven't - please do, cause they can help you better than any of us on a message board.




what are some evidences of assurance? I have talked to my pastor, I speak to him on a daily basis. Are good works evidences of assurance?

Scott


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 14, 2006)

Some of the greatest assurance comes from knowing that you are in the fight.
The great concern we have is that we will fall, and rise no more.
But when we fall, we stand back up, and we realize that we didn't do that in our own strength, but in the Lord's.
And so we soldier on. We get up every day, and put on the whole armor of God.
And then we go out and get bloodied.
The Christian life is warfare. We don't get rest or leave. That's what heaven is for.
God doesn't put us into the thick of the fight every day. That is our relief.
But every day we go in, we are promised enough strength.


> "As thy days, so shall thy strength be." Deuteronomy 33:25


Even if we are out of the trench, we are still in uniform, still in the battle.
We never let our guard down, even behind the lines.
We don't know where Satan will strike from a hidden ambush.

But you are in the fight. Will you fall, never to rise?
Are you kidding yourself about whose side you are on?
Not too many followers of Satan are asking that question--console yourself with that knowledge.
Stay in the fight. Endure til the end. Are you struggling with some sin? Keep fighting it, keep rejecting it, don't give in to it. If you do, repent of it, get back in the fight. Stay in the fight.

Staying in the fight is the one sure means of assurance, until your faith is strengthened. And even then, you must still stay in the fight, be on your guard.


> "Let him that standeth take heed, lest he fall."



Stay in the fight.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 14, 2006)

Great post Bruce. I wasn't sure if you were quoting some sort of poem because the sentence breaks made them seem like stanzas.

This is a very simplistic statement that needs a lot of reflection behind it but the bottom line is that if we never struggled and were never weak then what need would there be of faith in Christ's work?

Living with the accusation that Satan whispers in our ear every time we sin "You're not really a Christian are you?" is hard enough. What makes things harder is the error that surrounds us in so many "Christian" circles where people are taught that you've not really repented of something unless you stop doing it.

I'm so thankful that God found me and rescued me to the Gospel for it exposed me to Christ's sufficiency and caused me to stop leaning on my own strength. I had been a Roman Catholic in my childhood and then an Evangelical for years but never found peace. I tried to battle, I tried to wage war against the flesh and the world but I failed repeatedly in my strength and was beaten back. Who was going to deliver me from this body of death?! 

But I know now that, ultimately, I'm fighting against a foe that has lost its mastery of me. I know that Christ's strength will renew me. I hear the Gospel remind me that Christ did not die for me because I was worthy. I see the Sacraments speaking God's promise of salvation and means of spiritual nourishment. I look back on my own baptism when I cannot believe that God would save me and remember that seemingly insane promise (according to the world) that God would save me simply by trusting in and believing in His Son.

And so I sin and I sin mightily and I want to retreat from God and re-double my efforts and promise Him, on my own strength, that I'm going to try harder. Maybe then, I reason in my denial of the Gospel, will God accept me.

But then He finds me with His Gospel yet again and says to me: "Do you believe?" and I cry out "Lord I believe, help thou my unbelief!" And in the simple trust of a son who loves and is grateful to His Father, I discover again the desire to please Him and the fountain of strength toward that end.

And so I find myself continuing in the fight, striving against sin, with fear and trembling, trusting that God is at work in me to will and do His good pleasure.


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## turmeric (Nov 14, 2006)

I really enjoyed that post, Rich!


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## ADKing (Nov 14, 2006)

Another book I found very helpful was Thomas Hooker's _Poor Doubting Christian Drawn to Christ_


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## Ivan (Nov 14, 2006)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Stay in the fight.



Awesome post, Bruce. Praise God!


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## Peter (Nov 14, 2006)

Scott Shahan said:


> what are some evidences of assurance? I have talked to my pastor, I speak to him on a daily basis. Are good works evidences of assurance?
> 
> Scott



Mr. Shahan, I would highly recommend the book "The Christian's Great Interest" by William Guthrie.

Persistently having trouble with forgiveness is an impediment to full assurance of salvation, as your experience shows, and does suggest an unconverted state, however, good works are only a secondary evidence of a saving interest in Christ and besides, as Civbert said, the very fact you have a concern for this and recognize a problem speaks very favorably for you.

Guthrie suggests 3 main evidences for salvation. The first is a work of humiliation. Do you see that you are lost in sin? When you see the Commandment does sin revive in you and kill you? Have you lost all confidence in the flesh? Do you see even your good works and holy things as unclean?

The second is faith. Are you dead to the covenant of works? Do you see Jesus Christ as the only possible way to salvation? Are you satisfied with God's plan of salvation, do you choose it as your portion? Is Jesus a priceless treasure to you?

The third is a renewed state. Is the whole man renewed to some extent for the service of God? This includes our affections. Yet even if it seems we miserably fail here for our comfort scripture records instances of men who possessed a renewed state yet suffered under the prevailing power of sin. Cf. Paul Romans 7:14ff and David Psa 65:5, "Iniquities against me do prevail but as for our transgressions thou shalt surely purge them away." What God requires is a cordial resolution to abandon sin and cleave closely to Jesus Christ for strength, he is the vine we are the branches John 15.


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## Peter (Nov 14, 2006)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Some of the greatest assurance comes from knowing that you are in the fight...



Thanks. Your post was a great assurance!

My pastor says that the Christian life is like a staircase.
.........__
......__|
...__|
__|
|

The pattern is upward even though there are plateaus (and declines!)

The very fact that the flesh lusts against the spirit is an evidence of saving faith!



SemperFideles said:


> This is a very simplistic statement that needs a lot of reflection behind it but the bottom line is that if we never struggled and were never weak then what need would there be of faith in Christ's work?...



Thanks for that post. A great reminder that Christ's strength is perfected in our weakness.


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## ChristopherPaul (Nov 14, 2006)

As Rich said - this, like so many of our sins, is a problem of unbelief.

Samuel Bolton had some helpful material in his book, _True Bounds of Christian Freedom_.



> The Christian cannot loose his salvation, but he can loose the assurance of his salvation.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 14, 2006)

ADKing said:


> Another book I found very helpful was Thomas Hooker's _Poor Doubting Christian Drawn to Christ_


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## Me Died Blue (Nov 15, 2006)

I second the recommendation of Petrus Dathenus' _The Pearl of Christian Comfort._ The simple yet to-the-point and biblical dialogue is excellent.


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## Ravens (Nov 15, 2006)

Mr. Shahan,

Here are some things I think about and dwell upon when I deal with this issue.

This sounds trite, but I always recall the simple gospel promises of God in His Word. I haven't read Edwards' treatment on religious affections, and from what I've read by way of review, it treats true affections, false affections, true faith, false faith, etc. And in the light of that, my answer probably seems trite. But when demons are baring their teeth, and the door opens up beneath you (or seems to) its incredibly helpful for me to simply remember that everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved, that those who believe have passed from death to life, and are free from condemnation.

When Arminians say that predestination undercuts preaching, we always affirm in bold tones that God's predestinations do not contradict or cut against the grain of God's promises. They work hand-in-hand. And sometimes its best, not to forget theology (because I don't mean this in a pietistic way at all), but to set aside some of the intricacies and corridors for a minute, and just rest on the simplicity of clinging to Christ.

Also, it helps me to think of Abraham lying to Pharaoh, of Jacob swindling his father, of David having someone slaughtered just to sleep with his wife, of Peter spending three bodily years with the Lord only to deny him thrice in His darkest hour, etc. We are always so hard on ourselves... and we should be. Because ultimately the standard is God, and thus, really, the sins of others don't make our sins any lighter. But it helps to remember the grace of God in the lives of some of his greatest agents. The righteous man falls down seven times and rises up eight.

I mean even after Peter was rebuked as Satan by Jesus, and denied Christ in His passion, and received the Holy Spirit in Pentecostal and Apostolic power, he still had to be thoroughly rebuked by Paul for his treatment of the Gentiles.

Also, though its a bit trite, the answer that others gave, namely, "would a regenerate person even care" often helps me out.

************************

As to your specific issue, that is, forgiving someone else. Not to get too complicated, since I don't know your situation, but there are multiple ways you could be meaning that. You can "forgive them" in the sense of releasing your boiling wrath, and hoping that they find mercy before God's final judgment. However, you could do both of those things and still struggle with just inner resentment and an outright dislike of them.

But really, I wouldn't look at it so much from a "forgiveness" angle. I mean, all you are really failing to do is to love your neighbor as yourself. You have received great grace and mercy from God, and you aren't wanting to extend it the same way to your neighbor. However, I would take heart, because there's not one person on this board that can say they love God with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, and their neighbor as theirself.

Not one. 

I appreciate Reformed Christianity because (since its the truth) it presents the full-orbed truth of God. And man often errs in two directions, whether it be antinomianism - legalism, asceticism - libertinism, what have you. 

And on the one hand, Reformation teaching lashes out against perfectionism, Wesleyanism, et al. with severe strokes and labors to prove that we will struggle with the remnants of sin until death, and that sin is like the beard on a man's face that is renewed no matter how many times we shave it off.

And on the other hand, it stresses the absolute rigor and full and utter demands of the law in all of its purity and exactness. So we take sin more seriously than other traditions, down to holidays, incredibly pure worship, Sabbath observance, images of Christ, etc.

And I think both of those emphases are true. However, sometimes I feel that we don't allow them to connect with each other. We correctly apply those two medicines to the two different illnesses, but we never connect the wires together.

The law is perfect and holy and good, and we should be growing in obedience, growing in our knowledge of the law, etc. However, sometimes the_ spirit_ of certain topics (e.g. the Sabbath and exclusive psalmody... and I'm not being contentious, since I believe in the Lord's Day and lean towards e.p.) comes across as, "How could you possibly be a Christian and not believe this" or "If you watch football on Sunday, you understand nothing of the Lord."

Now let me clarify that I don't believe in watching football on Sunday, but that's not the point. The gospel comes to God-hating, God-defying, sinful, lecherous, violent, bloodthirsty, serpentine enemies of God. And within two years some question a conversion because people *haven't* grown to the point that they won't watch football on Sunday...

I don't know if I'm making my point. Sanctification is real and should be emphasized, but Romans 7 either means something or it doesn't. If God's word is true, then you will never stop struggling with sin this side of glorification. Ever. No matter what advice we give and how hard you try. So... the fact that you are struggling with it shouldn't weigh you down to despair. Because we all do, in some fashion or another.

But anyway, I don't even think I made a point in the last few paragraphs.

Mea culpa.

When I chew on all of those things, and the emotions still aren't fixed... and I take it seriously, and I don't mean this in a trite fashion... but after prayer, after seeking God, reading the Scriptures, even fasting... if you still feel all rotten inside, in all honesty I believe one of the healthiest things you can do is to say, "If God d*mns me, He d*mns me. That's His right. If I have any hope of being saved, it is through Christ and Christ alone, and I pray that I am included in His atonement. But ultimately it is in His hands, and not in mind."

Leave the decision with him, and in the spirit of Martin Luther, go take a walk outside, kiss your wife, play with your dog, have a glass of beer, anything. Something. Just take your mind off of yourself and off of your problem after you have utilized all the means that you can.

Anyway, hope some of that helped. I'm certainly no expert.


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## Scott Shahan (Nov 15, 2006)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Here is some recommended reading on the subject of assurance:
> 
> The Book of Psalms
> Romans 7-8
> ...




Do you know if this book is online;

Thomas Brooks, Heaven on Earth: A Treatise on Christian Assurance

Do you know which volume of Owen this is found in?

John Owen, Gospel Grounds and Evidences of the Faith of God’s Elect


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 15, 2006)

Scott Shahan said:


> Do you know if this book is online;
> 
> Thomas Brooks, Heaven on Earth: A Treatise on Christian Assurance
> 
> ...



Yes, the Complete Works of Thomas Brooks, including _Heaven on Earth_, can be read online at http://books.google.com/

It is also online here: http://www.gracegems.org/Brooks/heaven_on_earth.htm

It is also one of the Puritan Paperbacks: http://www.graceandtruthbooks.com/listdetails.asp?ID=706&RP=/puritans/paperbacks.asp

Owen's _Gospel Grounds and Evidences of the Faith of God's Elect_ is found in Volume 5 of his Works and here: http://www.iclnet.org/pub/resources/text/m.sion/owenggef.htm


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