# Place of the Law in the Liturgy



## Casey (Apr 11, 2009)

Why do Reformed liturgies emphasize the first use of the law (conviction of sin) over the third use (as a rule of life)? If the Reformed view is that the primary use of the law is the third use, why do Reformed liturgies not reflect this?

I think I read somewhere that some (many?) Reformed liturgies at the time of the Reformation placed the law at the end of the service instead of at the beginning, but I can't remember where I read that. Any pointers on where to look for this?

Moreover, if liturgies are pedagogical, could this not lead to an antinomian spirit and general hatred for the law? If every time we read it we do so to lead to conviction? It's hard to delight in something that primarily shows us our sin -- the psalmists delighted in the law because they equally delighted in obeying it.

Thoughts on this?  Thanks!


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## Casey (Apr 11, 2009)




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## jwithnell (Apr 11, 2009)

In our church the giving of the law and confession is _always_ paired with a declaration of the pardon Christ gives us. In other words, it links our worship to what is sometimes called the prologue of the law -- that God has brought us out of the land of slavery; He has redeemed us. However, the law as a rule of life is definitely brought out as the word is preached, more so in some text than in others; and instruction for going out and applying what we've been taught is given immediately preceding the benediction.


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## DonP (Apr 11, 2009)

CaseyBessette said:


> It's hard to delight in something that primarily shows us our sin -- the psalmists delighted in the law because they equally delighted in obeying it.
> 
> Thoughts on this?  Thanks!



Wow, I sure hope it is not hard to think on things that primarily show our sin. 

And so what if it is hard? 

Think of the Supper, if this does not make one think of their sin being paid for and what it would have cost them if Christ hadn't I don't know what will? 

The law can only be seen as a rule of life as it tells us our duty and what not to do. 
So in looking to it we can't help but see what we haven't done and that is a way we are motivated to do our duty. 

We should love this law as a rule to guide us how to live and treat each other, but because we are not perfect we will always be violators when we look to the perfect law. 

Our life is a life of repentance and obedience. 

If one delights in obeying it, they will be saddened where they see they haven't

They are two sides of one coin. There is no way to have one without the other. 

So I suggest whether one feels it is hard or not, sad or not, they look into the law, repent and obey, begging God to give them grace to love it more, to love Him more, to value the sacrifice of Christ more, and to be able to bey more closely. 

What else would you have us look to for confession of sin? 
Matt 6:12 And forgive us our debts, As we forgive our debtors. NKJV
This is how we pray. 

James 1:25
25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. NKJV

Rom 7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good . 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. KJV

If we did not see sin we would not need a savior or know grace. 
This is why most have a word on forgiveness or assurance after the confession of sin.


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## Casey (Apr 11, 2009)

I am speaking of our _emphasis_ when there is reference to the law in regular public, liturgical practices. I am not intending to convey a denial of any legitimate use of the law.

Why is the first use given prominence of place when the third use is the primary use (according to Reformed theology)? Why is the law, when used liturgically, almost _exclusively_ used according to the first use? Why not read the law prior to the benediction?

Forgive me if I was not clear in the first post as to what I was asking.


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## DonP (Apr 11, 2009)

CaseyBessette said:


> I am speaking of our _emphasis_ when there is reference to the law in regular public, liturgical practices. I am not intending to convey a denial of any legitimate use of the law.
> 
> Why is the first use given prominence of place when the third use is the primary use (according to Reformed theology)? Why is the law, when used liturgically, almost _exclusively_ used according to the first use? Why not read the law prior to the benediction?
> 
> Forgive me if I was not clear in the first post as to what I was asking.



I don't see how you can separate them. As a Rule of life implies we live by it. 
If i look at it to see if I am living by it, I see where I am not and where I am and where I should. 

How can you do only one of these??

Perhaps you are thinking of the law being used to convict unbelievers of their sin? The world of sin?


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## Casey (Apr 11, 2009)

Generally when the law is read in a service it will be introduced by the minister as follows:

"Brothers and sister, as I read God's holy law, search your hearts and minds and consider in what ways you have offended and in what ways you have fallen short. We will then offer a prayer of repentance asking God's pardon through Christ." (Following the prayer an assurance of pardon is given from the Scripture.)

This functions liturgically to convict of sin in preparation for repentance (first use of the law).

My question: Why not read the law at the end of the service, prior to the benediction, in accordance with its third use?


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## RTaron (Apr 11, 2009)

> My question: Why not read the law at the end of the service, prior to the benediction, in accordance with its third use?




Hi Casey, 
The Westminster Directory for Worship, as you know, was written with a eye toward getting away from set forms. Yet, they still saw the need to bring the congregation to a proper sense of their sin. .....



> Of Publick Prayer before the Sermon.
> 
> AFTER reading of the word, (and singing of the psalm,) the minister who is to
> preach, is to endeavour to get his own and his hearers hearts to be rightly affected
> ...



I much prefer this kind of approach in liturgy. The minister uses his God given gift of prayer. I feel the modern reformed kind of liturgy is taking a step backward to the days where ministers could be lazy and just follow a form.


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## DonP (Apr 11, 2009)

you get both uses at the same time. 

When you see where you have failed, you see what the rule of life is you need to obey. 

It could be done in both places. But there is no need. 

What would you suggest to replace it in helping us look to confess? Or do you think we have no need to confess sin in the worship service?


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## Rich Koster (Apr 11, 2009)

The reading of the law helps us purge ourselves of self righteousness, knowing we have broken it. Reminding us of how sick we are makes us rejoice much more in the Great Physicians cure. Isn't one of the purposes of us meeting together exhortation? I am encouraged when I hear Jesus kept/fulfilled the law and we receive imputed righteousness as a gift.


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## Casey (Apr 12, 2009)

I think my question is being largely misunderstood.

(Where have I suggested that we not confess our sins in public worship? )


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## DonP (Apr 12, 2009)

CaseyBessette said:


> I think my question is being largely misunderstood.
> 
> (Where have I suggested that we not confess our sins in public worship? )



I didn't say you did. I asked the question if you.... 

I asked if we are to confess our sins what, if not the law, would we use to promote it in that section?


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## DonP (Apr 12, 2009)

CaseyBessette said:


> Why do Reformed liturgies emphasize the first use of the law (conviction of sin) over the third use (as a rule of life)? If the Reformed view is that the primary use of the law is the third use, why do Reformed liturgies not reflect this?
> 
> Moreover, if liturgies are pedagogical, could this not lead to an antinomian spirit and general hatred for the law? If every time we read it we do so to lead to conviction? It's hard to delight in something that primarily shows us our sin -- the psalmists delighted in the law because they equally delighted in obeying it.
> 
> Thoughts on this?  Thanks!



I would hope that not every time the law is read or preached on or studied that it would be that way. 
But having it read this way each week is no problem to the unsaved or saved. 

And it is never only one or the other to me. 

The more I know of my sin, the more I love God. 

The more I hear the law the more I am thankful to Him and feel I owe my whole life all my days and hours to Him. 
I was as good as dead and would have had no life were it not for Him, I owe Him all. 
And because of this I obey the law as a rule of life. 

If I had not known sin I would not feel forgiven. 

How else shall I know my sin if not by the law?

It is only the law of liberty to me because I am free from its curse by Christ. 

The more I know about hell, the more I love God,

I fear these people we often hear of who say do not preach much on law, sin and hell have not been born anew of the Spirit. 

Luke 7:47 Therefore I say to you, her sins, which are many, are forgiven, for she loved much. But to whom little is forgiven, the same loves little." NKJV

You cannot hear the law too much for it is Christ, it is God's moral character revealed to us, it drives us to Him. 

One cannot separate law and gospel as if they were distinct anyway. 

There is no gospel without the Law. So to seek to preach the gospel until we know our sin and the judgment it deserves it would be casting it on deaf ears. 

The self righteous person must become a sinner before he can become a saint. 

Rom 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for* by the law is the knowledge of sin*. NKJV

Ps 119:97 *Oh, how I love Your law!*
*It is my meditation all the day. *
98 You, through Your commandments, 
make me wiser than my enemies;
For they are ever with me. 
99 I have more understanding than all my teachers,
For Your testimonies are my meditation. 
100 I understand more than the ancients,
Because I keep Your precepts. 
101 I have restrained my feet from every evil way,
That I may keep Your word. 
102 I have not departed from Your judgments,
For You Yourself have taught me. 
103 *How sweet are Your words to my taste,
Sweeter than honey to my mouth! *
104 Through Your precepts I get understanding;
*Therefore I hate every false way. * NKJV

Friends, I hope you would all feel this way about the law. Whatever scene it is in.


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