# Quotes from theonomists on the transformation of society through the gospel



## crhoades (Nov 15, 2006)

Thought this would be a good resource to have around...

[Quotes complied by David Field]taken from:
http://www.forerunner.com/blog/2006/09/theonomists-and-gospel.html

"It must be stressed that the creation of a Christian nation could
be accomplished only as a result of the widespread work of the Holy
Spirit, not through some bureaucratic top-down, coercively imposed
order on a non-Christian majority by a Christian minority. --G.
North, Healer of the Nations" [p.34]

"It is the missionary ... who is best equipped to begin the bottom-
up process of evangelism that ultimately leads to the establishment
of a covenanted confederation of Christian nations." --Healer [p.157]

"We must seek reform first in the Church, not in the State. The
focus on the State as the primary institution of life is the
humanist myth of the age. It must not become the myth of Christian
reconstruction." --Healer [p.287]

"What is God's historic means of making the world better ? The
preaching of the gospel." --Gary North, Reduction of Christianity
[p.xx]

"One of the distinctives of Christian reconstruction is its aversion
to the use of politics as the method to bring about social
change .... But why all the attention to politics in
reconstructionist literature ... ? The answer is very simple.
Politics has become the saviour of the people. Reconstructionists
write about politics and civil government in order to call
Christians and non-Christians back to their only Saviour, the Lord
Jesus Christ." --Gary DeMar, Reduction [p.21f]

"Christian reconstructionists are looking for the transformation of
all of society, including families, churches, business
establishments, the legal profession, education, economics,
journalism, the media and civil government through personal
redemption and adherence to the Bible as the standard for godly
rule." --Reduction [p.23]

"Dominion comes through service ... It is idolatrous to seek
dominion primarily by political means, whether by domination or
anarchic revolution." -- Reduction [p.25]

"Evangelism is the starting point of social transformation." --
Reduction [p.189]

"The key to remedying the [present] situation is ... regeneration.
There is no hope for man except in regeneration ... True reform
begins with regeneration and then the submission of the believer to
the whole law-word of God."
--R J Rushdoony, Institutes of Biblical Law, [pp.113, 449, 627]

"The chief blessing of the kingdom is forgiveness of sins"
--Reduction [p.217]

"It is through the Spirit-filled church, proclaiming the gospel,
that the kingdom of Christ extends throughout the world."
--Reduction, [p.220]

"The negative reaction to social reform comes from secularized
attempts to do what only the gospel can do. This reaction is
legitimate but it should not deter Christians from being truly
evangelical in their attempts at reform."
--Reduction, [p.286]

"If we really do need a graduate school in theology, let us finance
one. But let us no longer fool the donors into believing that this
sort of rarified academic institution is necessary or even useful
for training pastors ... For now, let us get on with the task at
hand: the evangelization of the world."
--Gary North, Theonomy: An Informed Response, [p.340f]

"The authors of this book ... know very well that Christian faith
centers on the saving work of Jesus Christ. They profess to love the
Savior with all their heart. They know that their new life in Him,
their new status of being right with God, and their hope of eternal
life have been granted to them by the grace of God. They have
nothing of which to boast. With Paul they would say, 'Far be it from
me to glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, through
which the world has been crucified unto me and I unto the world'.
Having been saved from the world, their concern is to love their
Lord with all their heart, soul, strength and mind. They now want to
walk in those good works which God intends for them. They make a
sincere effort to heed the words of Christ to 'seek above all the
kingdom of God and His righteousness'. They know that this kingdom,
for which they pray regularly, will not be consummated until after
the return of Jesus Christ and the final judgment, when all
believers will then rejoice in a new heaven and earth wherein
righteousness dwells. In the meantime they seek to perfect personal
holiness in the fear of God and to make all the nations disciples of
their Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. It is only in the light and
context of these beliefs and practices that they see and understand
their Reconstructionist position in ethics and eschatology."
--Greg Bahnsen, House Divided, [p.3f]

"It must be understood the Reconstructionists believe that
evangelism is the absolute pre-condition to worldwide,
postmillennial, theocratic success ... We insist that cultural
influence and change are to be promoted by God's people - who are
saved by grace alone - at large in their callings, not by the
institutional Church as such."
--Ken Gentry, House Divided, [p.194]

"Evangelism, leading to baptism, comes first".
--Ken Gentry, House Dived, [p.194]

"Christian Reconstructionists do not believe that man can be
fundamentally changed by changing the conditions of society. Instead
we believe that society will be changed when men are first changed
inwardly by the Gospel and then seek to apply that change to the
spheres of life in which they are involved."
--Tony Baxter, "Theonomy" article in "Calvinism Today" magazine I.4
17

"First and foremost, our emphasis is on the proclamation of the
saving power of God through Jesus Christ; and then the regenerate
man applying the whole word of God to every sphere of life."
--R J Rushdoony, "Calvinism Today" II.1 14

"The message of the kingdom of God rests on a concept of salvation
which is supernaturally imparted, not politically imparted."
--Gary North, Tools of Dominion, [p.38]

"The primary need today, as always, is the need for widespread
personal repentance before God."
--Gary North, Tools of Dominion, [p.39]

"The basis for building a Christian society is evangelism and
missions that lead to a widespread Christian revival, so that the
great mass of earth's inhabitants will place themselves under
Christ's protection, and voluntarily use His covenantal laws for
self-government. Christian reconstruction begins with personal
conversion to Christ and self-government under God's law, then
spreads to others through revival and only later does it bring
comprehensive changes in civil law, when the vast majority of voters
voluntarily agree to live under Biblical blueprints."
--Gary North, Tools of Dominion, [p.55]

"The key to cultural transformation is the gospel."
--David Chilton, Productive Christians in an Age of Guilt
Manipulators, [p.234]

"My slogan is 'politics fourth' ... it is my concern after
individual salvation, church membership and family membership."
--Gary North, Westminster's Confession, [p.158]

"The goal of Christian political action then is not to usher in a
theocracy but to acknowledge the theocracy that already exists ....
Christian political action is not supposed to impose a messianic
kingdom from the top down. Only God can lawfully control the hearts
of men by imposing His rule .... Christian political action is
therefore a bottom-up and inside-out process."
--George Grant, Changing of the Guard, [p.11]

"The orthodox Christian faith cannot be reduced to personal
experiences, academic discussions, or culture-building activity - as
important as all these are in varying degrees. The essence of
Biblical religion is the worship of God .... True Christian
reconstruction of culture is far from being simply a matter of
passing Law X and electing Congressman Y. Christianity is not a
political cult. It is the divinely ordained worship of the Most High
God." --David Chilton, Paradise Restored, [p.215]

"I forthrightly reject any reduction of the sacred message to
moralism or politics ... the central thrust of the bible is
recognized to be the accomplishment and application of salvation to
God's people." --Greg Bahnsen, Theonomy, [p.33f]

"I don't disagree that the issues taken up in Theonomy are of
subordinate importance in the Christian life, preaching of the
church, range of theological loci etc ... Surely the fact that some
Christians take up the question of God's law and its relation to
modern penology - and that some write on the subject - does not mean
that they believe that subject is the most vital issue for all
believers (or even for themselves)."
-- Greg Bahnsen, No Other Standard, [p.43]

"We may readily grant that socio-political reconstruction has less
urgency than personal spirituality or the church, but this does not
bear whatsoever upon the truth or error of the theonomic standard
for politics." -- Bahnsen, No Other, p.51


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## RamistThomist (Nov 15, 2006)

So if anyone says that theonomists want to change the world by politics and the sword, that's libel/slander, and that's a sin, right?


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## crhoades (Nov 15, 2006)

Not necessarily. Could be ignorance or have read other quotes out of context. But when you get into willful ignorance or someone with an axe to grind, there may be some room for some Christian charity. These quotes are taken from the standard works so if someone was looking for them they agild find them. I googled "Bahnsen gospel transforming" and found this list on the first page. Anyhoo, may this thread encourage people and especially people with theonomic leanings to imitate theonomists at their best and out the gospel first.


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## Philip A (Nov 15, 2006)

crhoades said:


> Anyhoo, may this thread encourage people and especially people with theonomic leanings to imitate theonomists at their best and out the gospel first.



See! See!

Theonomists just want to take over the world by political means, and the first thing on their agenda is to out the gospel!!!

/end humour test


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## crhoades (Nov 15, 2006)

Philip A said:


> See! See!
> 
> Theonomists just want to take over the world by political means, and the first thing on their agenda is to out the gospel!!!
> 
> /end humour test



Stupid blackberry!should have spellchecked it! Should have read put.


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## Philip A (Nov 15, 2006)

crhoades said:


> Stupid blackberry!should have spellchecked it! Should have read put.



Oh of course, I was just having fun at your expense!


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## crhoades (Nov 22, 2006)

Achoo! Bump.


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## Blueridge Believer (Nov 22, 2006)

Joe morecraft has some very special ideas. At the end of the message he goes so far as to say you're not a Bible believing christian if you don't agree with him. Worth the listen:

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=42906233130


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## Pergamum (Nov 22, 2006)

So where does the civil sword come in and when does the magistrate begin dishing out civil punishments for ecclesiastical deviances?

FIRST comes evangelism.............. but what after?


After a society is evangelized by the Gospel alone, and then gets a "Christian" gov't at what point does it "extirpate popery" and then begin persecution of others?


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## RamistThomist (Nov 22, 2006)

Trevor, you are foaming at the mouth right now. The magistrate only can punish crimes, not sins. Crimes are sins, but not all sins are crimes. 

Also, given your view, one would have to do away with all forms of govt, since punishing murderers, rapists, and _________ precludes evangelism. In that case, you prove too much. 



> After a society is evangelized by the Gospel alone, and then gets a "Christian" gov't at what point does it "extirpate popery" and then begin persecution of others?



Take a deep breath, count to 10, and then tell me if you had any substance behind that question.


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## Pergamum (Nov 23, 2006)

[wiping the foam off my mouth........].............. 



A crime is an external manifestation of a sin many a time. 

And if based on the Mosaic Civil law (in the details and not merely in their general equity - i.e. the core principle) then we need to stone false prophets and homos and disobedient children.


Yall wouldn't feel guilty for chasing down Jews and exiling them? They are heretics and unbeleivers after all?

Hindus worship idols. You are obligated to punish them civilly.


Also, what about (I think) Lev 19 - where you couldn't plant two grains beside one another. Surely this pertains to the civil state too.


You mention the Gospel being the means of bringing about the theonomic state - but what about after. 



You all want to enforce OT civil law, but Israel as a civil state is no more. Only insofar as these laws showed Christ and show general principles of the Gospel can they be enforced. The transplantation of these laws as some theonomists desire would be to encourage persecution, hamper evangelism and missions and merge church and state so much as to mistake our spiritual weapons for carnal ones.


I thank God that the theonomy that I often hear espoused is still a vast minority in the churches, the only outlet being these type of internet discussion boards.


Theonomists often charge non-theonomists of having some other standard for civil society beside the Bible. But it is not that non-theonomists do not want the BIble as the standard, they recognize that the civil laws of Israel only apply insofar as they illuminate core truths. The outward time and place being particular, the laws of OT Israel were specific - mimicking them as close as possible will not neccessarily bring about a more just society. We always have to go to the core of the law which is to love God and love our neighbors.



*All Christians should be theonomists to some degree....but not the kind that would make theological orthodoxy to be a matter of the civil state. Theological orthodoxy is a matter of the CHURCH. *


WHen it comes to this, I get rather rabid!........

... because I would hate to see you guys succeed and then begin sinning in your zealousness of trying to enforce orthodoxy. I also don't want the civil state fining me for requiring that my children believe before they are baptized.


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## RamistThomist (Nov 23, 2006)

Trevor,
I am sorry you think that way about me. I am also sorry that you have an udnerlying presupposition againts theonomists. For no matter what I say, or what others say, you continue to hold to your horror-story style argumenation. But a few words in resposen to it:

1. Remember God gave these laws to be acted out in history, so they can't be tooo mean.
2. Has God's moral standards changed? If they were just for the Israelites but not jus today, then God is a moral relativist.
3. Again, I have defied you time and again to show where Bahnsne's system logically demands the persecution of baptists (ironically--towards the end of Bahnsen's life, baptists were the biggest supporters of theonomy!). Until you find it, I will continue to mark your comments as libel/slander. 

Thus ends my last post on PB.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 23, 2006)

These are good quotes to see. 

But I don't think it's an overstatement on my part to point out that the vast majority of the output from theonomists is indeed political in nature, and were that not the case, there would be no reason for this thread. With all due respect, that includes many on this board who would identify with that camp.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 23, 2006)

Draught Horse said:


> Thus ends my last post on PB.



Hmm, famous last words that I'm sure not a few of us have thought probably more than once, if not actually written. 

Wondering here what the over/under should be on Draught Horse's return.....


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## Puritan Sailor (Nov 23, 2006)

Pilgrim said:


> These are good quotes to see.
> 
> But I don't think it's an overstatement on my part to point out that the vast majority of the output from theonomists is indeed political in nature, and were that not the case, there would be no reason for this thread. With all due respect, that includes many on this board who would identify with that camp.



I would have to agree here. They may argue the necessity of the gospel, but the emphasis seems to be political activism, with preaching the gospel as a lower priority. The church should be spreading the gospel no matter what condition the state is in. We don't need a free-speech society. It certainly helps, but God raises up his people in all manners of state conditions. My fear is that the emphasis on state/world transformation (probably form the postmil eschatology?) undermines the effort of personal and local transformation, which is basically shooting oneself in the foot. We only have so much time to live and it takes all my efforts just to minister to the few people around me, let alone seek to transform the state. But if we all would labor at home to bring the gospel to bear upon everyone we know, then the state would transform itself as the leaven of the gospel spreads. You change the government by changing the voters. 

But I do like this quote from Demar above: 
"One of the distinctives of Christian reconstruction is its aversion
to the use of politics as the method to bring about social
change .... But why all the attention to politics in
reconstructionist literature ... ? The answer is very simple.
Politics has become the saviour of the people. Reconstructionists
write about politics and civil government in order to call
Christians and non-Christians back to their only Saviour, the Lord
Jesus Christ." --Gary DeMar, Reduction [p.21f]

That can preach! The state has certainly become an idol for many. A great application of the first commandment.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 23, 2006)

Puritan Sailor said:


> I would have to agree here. They may argue the necessity of the gospel, but the emphasis seems to be political activism, with preaching the gospel as a lower priority. The church should be spreading the gospel no matter what condition the state is in. We don't need a free-speech society. It certainly helps, but God raises up his people in all manners of state conditions. My fear is that the emphasis on state/world transformation (probably form the postmil eschatology?) undermines the effort of personal and local transformation, which is basically shooting oneself in the foot. We only have so much time to live and it takes all my efforts just to minister to the few people around me, let alone seek to transform the state. But if we all would labor at home to bring the gospel to bear upon everyone we know, then the state would transform itself as the leaven of the gospel spreads. You change the government by changing the voters.
> 
> But I do like this quote from Demar above:
> "One of the distinctives of Christian reconstruction is its aversion
> ...



Amen! 

What has been the result of the emphasis on politics and civil government? Has it resulted in calling more people to the Lord Jesus Christ, or has it simply resulted in more embracing the idol?


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## Answerman (Dec 2, 2006)

As a professing theonomist, I have to admit that sometimes I wish that I could help accelerate the Gospel transformation that I believe is prophetically foretold of in the scriptures. But the more I study, the more that I realize that we also need to follow the Biblically described means for bringing about this transformation. This is by the discipling of the nations and teaching them to observe all that Christ has commanded, which in turn is only achieved when we lead by example, even as Christ did.

I remember a comment that Gary DeMar made one time when he was explaining how we needed to get our priorities right in a hierarchical progression, first we must govern ourselves according to God’s law, then our families, then our Churches, then our communities and finally to our civil government. Although not perfect, I belief that at the time of the founding of our nation, their were enough Christians in this country that had these Biblical institutions in order that it created a society that was blessed by God and as a result, God granted us Godly leaders. But as Christians started to neglect their duties in these areas, negative results followed soon after. 

One of my pet peeves is the way in which Christian parents neglect to give their children a distinctly Christian education, which I believe is clearly put forth in Deut. 6:4-9 as well as many other parts of scripture. All one has to do is look at the contrast of the way that Christians thought about this subject and how we now feel about it. For example, when R.L. Dabney predicted that if Christians began to send their children to free (public, or I like to say government) schools, they should expect that all prayers, Bible reading and catechisms would be eventually removed, which would have certainly been considered appalling to Christians back then. Apparently Christians assumed that such a terrible thing as this would never happen. But now that it has happened, Christians don’t think that the removal of these things is all that bad. I believe that the reason is because by this time all of our parents have been effectively brainwashed in to thinking like secular humanists, eventhough they may still attend church.

This leads me to what I see as the only long term solution.

First, Christian parents must educate themselves as to how we got ourselves into this accursed position, since most of the church leaders in this country don’t seem to have the intestinal fortitude for such a bold move. Next, have lots of children and train up the next generation in the nurture and admonition of the Lord (this means more than just sending them to Sunday school and even more than just daily devotions). When your children reach the rhetoric stage (or somewhere in the teenage years), wean them on Calvin, Bahnsen, and Van Til (you may substitute Gordon Clark if you like, or better yet have them write a dissertation on the differences between Van Til and Clark). Then finally send them out to strive with all of their mind, body and soul to fulfill the great commission, in whatever field that they feel God has equipped them for. And as people strive to see how God’s word applies to all areas of life, society and government will be the best that it can possibly be until Christ comes again.

I hope that this is a fair representation of what theonomists believe, at least this is how I view my position.


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