# Walking out of a Sermon, II



## toddpedlar (Jul 30, 2004)

In another topic, Finn McCool (aka Jason) wrote:

[quote:6ad18f4ba8]If one of the deacons (bear with me now, I am SBC), to illustrate a 
point from Purpose Driven Life, comes onto the area around the pulpit wearing flippers, snorkel gear, and a wetsuit, does that warrant a walk out? Unfortunately, this scenario is true. And I almost went to a PCA church that morning.
[/quote:6ad18f4ba8]

My question is... regardless of his attire, what was the deacon doing illustrating a point from [b:6ad18f4ba8]The Purpose Driven Life[/b:6ad18f4ba8]?  

Todd


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## Craig (Jul 30, 2004)

Didn't you know? The Purpose Driven Life is awesome! It's the one article where Christianity lives by. It's so powerful, in fact, that I saw greeting cards at Walmart produced by the PDL (I kid you not).

Why do people do these things? The Word isn't powerful enough, or, it's much easier to make a fool out of yourself than to carefully handle Scripture. Hey, if people are laughing and not nodding off, it must be good!


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## Craig (Sep 19, 2004)

I don't hate the player...just the game.


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## Puritan Sailor (Sep 19, 2004)

[quote:06d7cf33a3="Craig"]Didn't you know? The Purpose Driven Life is awesome! It's the one article where Christianity lives by. It's so powerful, in fact, that I saw greeting cards at Walmart produced by the PDL (I kid you not).
[/quote:06d7cf33a3]
The Purpose Driven Card? What will they think of next?


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## RamistThomist (Sep 20, 2004)

[quote:d506d43852="puritansailor"]The Purpose Driven Card? What will they think of next? [/quote:d506d43852]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Apostles!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Julia (Apr 7, 2005)

Purpose Driven Life? Bit subjective but can pull you up but then.... must get on with the purpose of life - glorify God and ENJOY him FOREVER!


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## john_Mark (Apr 7, 2005)

A few weeks ago a friend and I visited an SBC church due to the pastor being new and also a teacher on the Founders site. We thought that maybe he was RB. It's possible that he is, but I haven't followed up to see. The church is going through a bunch of changes right now so the new pastor may well be RB.

Without going into too many details here is why we walked out. After the first 10-15 minute sermonette which was really the first part of laying the foundation of change in the future of this church we had a song. We sang through the first stanza acapella(sp?). Then, after about two quarter rests this solemn moment ended with the entry of an electric guitar solo. The guy ran down the fret board on the guitar. This was the second solo of the service so far.

My friend looked at me in amazement and asked if I wanted to leave. We left. I thought the guy was going to break out playing VanHalen's "Eruption" while my friend said he was waiting for David Lee Roth to jump out wearing spandex and start singing.


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## lwadkins (Apr 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> Didn't you know? The Purpose Driven Life is awesome! It's the one article where Christianity lives by. It's so powerful, in fact, that I saw greeting cards at Walmart produced by the PDL (I kid you not).
> 
> Why do people do these things? The Word isn't powerful enough, or, it's much easier to make a fool out of yourself than to carefully handle Scripture. Hey, if people are laughing and not nodding off, it must be good!



This is hitting the nail on the head In my humble opinion. First of all in many churches worship has been replaced by evangelistic outreach and the Word of God is not considered to be enough to evangelize unless it is made relevant (read - by being presented in a "culturally updated" and innovative manner). So then the emphasis in Worship (Evangelistic Outreach) must be on innovation and cultural relevance in order to be received by the latest generations. What happened to Worship in all of this?


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## Robin (Apr 8, 2005)

I think it's right to not only walk-out, but write a letter. 

I'm in a research group (apologetics) for PDL....Warren IS recruiting churches/pastors to deliberately change orthodoxy. Pastors are also taught how to deal with "dissenters."

In posing/subscribing to his curriculum...I've received many invitations to the seminars --- where they persuade, er emotionally manipulate pastors to become a "change agent."

There is definite "sheep russleing" a foot. The marketing-machine is energetic to get the word out - there is a "New Reformation!"

It's not funny, of course, but Saddleback has a Hawaiin "Hula" _worship venue_ ....where everyone is encouraged to do the "hula" before the Lord. (The hula is a religious dance to the pagan god Pele.)
They don't mention Pele --- they say it's _fun & exciting_ to do the hula to worship Jesus.

http://www.saddlebackfamily.com/home/todaystory.asp?id=5700


Thoughts?

Robin

PS. Does anyone know how I can copy an e mail I have and post it here? (It is the advertisements for the above claim.) Sorry -- I'm such a ludite.


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## BobVigneault (Apr 8, 2005)

There is a church here in the Rockford, Ill area that has been running a tv commercial. They actually say in the narration, "Come and have fun while you worship Jesus Christ." I get so depressed every time I hear it. 

I've been asked to preach at a church near Milwaukee in a couple weeks. It only took me a moment to decide what I would preach on - Worship. 

"Hear the Word of the Lord, ye that tremble at His Word..." Isaiah 66:5


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## lwadkins (Apr 8, 2005)

Well Robin, after all they are just trying to be relevant! (sarcasm)


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## tcalbrecht (Apr 8, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Robin_
> I'm in a research group (apologetics) for PDL....Warren IS recruiting churches/pastors to *deliberately change orthodoxy*.



That's quite a charge. When I think about the phrase "change orthodoxy" I have visions that they are out to do away with, say, the Nicene or Chalcedonian Creeds. Is that what you are talking about? Are they Arians or gnostics or pelagians? If so I would like to see the documentation supporting the charge.



> _Originally posted by Robin_
> Pastors are also taught how to deal with "dissenters."



If this is nothing more that officers exercising biblical authority over their flock, then where is the problem? I suspose every reformed church has had to deal with folks coming in to promote Arminianism or Romanism in some form or another. Sometimes you need to simply ask them to go to a church where they would be more theologically comfortable.

We have churches in the PCA that have their own taste in worship style, music, etc. I don't know that it's anyone business to come in off the street with the purpose of "fixing them".



> _Originally posted by Robin_
> *In posing/subscribing to his curriculum *...I've received many invitations to the seminars --- where they persuade, er emotionally manipulate pastors to become a "change agent."



Isn't that a bit deceptive, subscribing to his material for the purpose of smoking him out?



> Q. 145. What are the sins forbidden in the ninth commandment?
> 
> A. The sins forbidden in the ninth commandment are, all prejudicing the truth, and the good name of our neighbors, as well as our own, especially in public judicature; giving false evidence, suborning false witnesses, wittingly appearing and pleading for an evil cause, outfacing and overbearing the truth; passing unjust sentence, calling evil good, and good evil; rewarding the wicked according to the work of the righteous, and the righteous according to the work of the wicked; forgery, concealing the truth, undue silence in a just cause, and holding our peace when iniquity calleth for either a reproof from ourselves, or complaint to others; *speaking the truth unseasonably, or maliciously to a wrong end, or perverting it to a wrong meaning, or in doubtful or equivocal expressions, to the prejudice of the truth or justice*; speaking untruth, lying, slandering, backbiting, detracting, talebearing, whispering, scoffing, reviling, rash, harsh, and partial censuring; misconstructing intentions, words, and actions; flattering, vainglorious boasting, thinking or speaking too highly or too meanly of ourselves or others; denying the gifts and graces of God; aggravating smaller faults; hiding, excusing, or extenuating of sins, when called to a free confession; unnecessary discovering of infirmities; raising false rumors, receiving and countenancing evil reports, and stopping our ears against just defense; evil suspicion; envying or grieving at the deserved credit of any; endeavoring or desiring to impair it, rejoicing in their disgrace and infamy; scornful contempt, fond admiration; breach of lawful promises; *neglecting such things as are of good report, and practicing, or not avoiding ourselves, or not hindering what we can in others, such things as procure an ill name.*





> _Originally posted by Robin_
> There is definite *"sheep russleing"* a foot.



Not sure that that means.



> _Originally posted by Robin_
> The marketing-machine is energetic to get the word out - there is a "New Reformation!"



As opposed to say a "Modern Reformation"or _semper reformanda_? Not sure what the point is, unless you just don't care for the phrase.



> _Originally posted by Robin_
> Thoughts?



You got 'em.


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## Robin (Apr 9, 2005)

Hey Tom,

I'm out a while...I didn't want to leave you hanging....

If you're new to some of the mounting evidence and concern about PDL...check this out...

http://www.sacredsandwich.com/warren_scripture.htm

There's a lot to untangle...mostly the problems with word-games.

I'll be happy to address the other points when I get back.

In Christ,

Robin


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## Shane (Apr 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> 
> The Purpose Driven Card? What will they think of next?



Oh probably something like 

The pupose driven business

or maybe even 

The Pupose driven Wife

I mean we gotta keep the bucks coming in dont we?


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## Redeemed (May 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> You're just bitter because you've not benefitted from all the proceeds Purpose-Driven Life Â¨r) has brought forth!



I'm waiting for the movie.


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