# Is Giving an Element of Worship?



## kevin.carroll (Feb 11, 2010)

The Divines seemed to think so. The Directory says:

"This acknowledgement should take the form, in part, of giving at least a tithe of our income and other offerings to the work of the Lord through the Church of Jesus Christ, *thus worshipping the Lord* with our possessions"

and,

"This should be done as an exercise of grace and *an act of worship*."

and,

"It is appropriate that the offerings be *dedicated by prayer*."

Thoughts?


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## KMK (Feb 11, 2010)

Great question! And if I might add a second question: If it is an element of worship, is it corporate, or private?


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## kevin.carroll (Feb 11, 2010)

I would say that since it is in the Directory for the Public Worship of God, it was understood to apply to corporate worship.


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## rbcbob (Feb 11, 2010)

If corporate worship (and I am not saying that it isn't) would the regulative principle require everyone give at every service?


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## Romans922 (Feb 11, 2010)

Kevin,

I can't find any of those statements in the Directory. Where are you seeing this at, maybe I am missing it. 

The only thing I see about this topic really comes at the end of the section on the Lord's Supper where it says, "[SIZE=+1]The collection for the poor is so to be ordered, that no part of the publick worship be thereby hindered."[/SIZE]


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## kevin.carroll (Feb 11, 2010)

My bad, Andrew. It is in the BCO directory. I think the question is still good. Paul commands in 1 Co. 16:2, "On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come."


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## fredtgreco (Feb 11, 2010)

Not every element of worship must take place at every worship. Baptism and the Lord's Supper, for example.


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## Romans922 (Feb 11, 2010)

Historical Theology in Calvin's order of worship and other notables have giving in worship. Usually along with the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper (from what I remember of Pipa's chapter in Terry Johnson's book on Worship and the Regulative Principle). Giving has been very questionable for me as an element. I'm back and forth on it.


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## N. Eshelman (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm back and forth too (like Andrew). The RP Church has it as an element of worship (for corporate worship), but I don't think that the proof texts are very strong. There are many practical reasons for having in the worship service, but I am fine with a good ol' Presbyterian drop box.


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## kevin.carroll (Feb 11, 2010)

Nice, dodge, Fred. Personally, I would not be opposed to a weekly observance of the Lord's Supper.  And honestly, I think you can make a good argument that such was the practice of the apostolic church.


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## rbcbob (Feb 11, 2010)

fredtgreco said:


> Not every element of worship must take place at every worship. *Baptism* and the Lord's Supper, for example.


 
Fred, I have wondered for some time if Baptism *actually is an element of worship*. That it is an institution of the church and ought not be administered without the authority of the church seems clearly supported in Scripture. But it seems that both the LBC and the WCF are somewhat wanting in Scriptural references to say that it is an *element of worship* whereas the Lord's Supper is clearly referenced as such. Can you help me think this one through?


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## KMK (Feb 11, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Not every element of worship must take place at every worship. *Baptism* and the Lord's Supper, for example.
> ...


 
This is an excellent question but would you mind using it to start a new thread? I tried to move it myself, but inline moderation tools are not working well.


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## rbcbob (Feb 11, 2010)

KMK said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > fredtgreco said:
> ...


 
Sorry Ken, I wasn't intending to hijack the thread just trying to reason backwards to the OP!


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## fredtgreco (Feb 12, 2010)

kevin.carroll said:


> Nice, dodge, Fred. Personally, I would not be opposed to a weekly observance of the Lord's Supper.  And honestly, I think you can make a good argument that such was the practice of the apostolic church.


Not a dodge at all. Or would you insist (unlike virtually every weekly communion advocate I have ever heard) upon the Lord's Supper at every worship service- both morning and evening? Because that is the logical consequence of *requiring* an element of worship at every worship service. 

By the way, if baptism or the Supper are not elements (or at least sub categories of the element of observing the sacraments) than they should not ever be done in worship.


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## Peairtach (Feb 12, 2010)

Of course.


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