# Mark Dever on "The Bondage of Guidance"



## Pilgrim (Feb 20, 2008)

Together for the Gospel


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## Ivan (Feb 20, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> Together for the Gospel



Good and sensible words.


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## DMcFadden (Feb 20, 2008)

Ivan said:


> Pilgrim said:
> 
> 
> > Together for the Gospel
> ...


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## Herald (Feb 20, 2008)

A fit time for a fit message.


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## Davidius (Feb 20, 2008)

It was pretty good, but I'm not so sure about the last paragraph. 



> A subjective sense of leading--when we've asked for it (as in James 1:5 we ask for wisdom) and when God freely gives it--is wonderful. The desire for such a subjective sense of leading, however, is too often, in contemporary evangelical piety, binding our brothers and sisters in Christ, paralyzing them from enjoying the good choices that God may provide, and causing them to wait wrongly before acting.



Does the bible say we should expect any subjective senses of leading? To use James 1:5 to support this idea seems wrong to me. Wisdom is not a subjective impression from the Spirit.


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## DMcFadden (Feb 20, 2008)

I took him to be saying that while the Lord does guide at times in subjective ways, the normal approach is to rely upon clear biblical precepts and common sense judgment. However, he did not want to rule out any possibility of subjective leading and used James 1:5 as promising that God offers wisdom in response to prayer.


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## Davidius (Feb 20, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> I took him to be saying that while the Lord does guide at times in subjective ways, the normal approach is to rely upon clear biblical precepts and common sense judgment. However, he did not want to rule out any possibility of subjective leading and used James 1:5 as promising that God offers wisdom in response to prayer.



Right, I agree that this is what he was saying. But what evidence is there that we should ever expect the Lord to guide in subjective ways? How would we be able to tell which "impressions" are God's nudge? 

In James 1:5 a person is lacking wisdom and praying for wisdom; he isn't struggling to make a decision and praying for a subjective word from God telling him what to do. Such a use of this verse seems like a stretch to me.


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## tcalbrecht (Feb 20, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> I took him to be saying that while the Lord does guide at times in subjective ways, the normal approach is to rely upon clear biblical precepts and common sense judgment. However, *he did not want to rule out any possibility of subjective leading *and used James 1:5 as promising that God offers wisdom in response to prayer.



Is that what the Bible teaches? Subjective leading? 



> So I am free. Regardless of the sense of leading I had.



Or it could have just been a fragment of an underdone potato.

I'm afraid the subject is too involved for such a brief comment.


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## Pergamum (Feb 21, 2008)

The Lord leads by desires too, and desires are subjective.


For instance, even the calling into the ministry is according to "..if a man desires the office of a bishop.."


Our desires, in line with God's Word, and seconded by the desires of the larger corporate body of Christ can help us know God's will.



Seen in this way, guidence is very subjective... but still anchored on God's Word (especailly since the Bible is far from exhasutive on many day to day decisions).


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