# Was Synagogue Worship Prescribed in Scripture?



## bradofshaw (Jan 16, 2008)

I've been wondering about this and didn't know how to find the answer. I've often heard that the New Testament sabbath service is based on synagogue worship. Obviously the temple worship is described in great detail in the OT, but what about synagogues? If our present day worship is to be structured by scripture, how did scripture structure OT synagogue worship? This isn't strictly a criticism of RPW, I'm actually more interested in why the NT church, specifically Reformed, worships the way it does. So my initial questions are:

1. Where and when was the pattern for synagogue worship developed? Am I right that this developed during the exile?

2. Are there any scriptures that speak to this? Specifically, what was expected of the Israelites as far as worship on the Sabbath?

I searched my Nave's topical Bible for Synagogue and Church, and didn't come up with any specific texts dealing with synagogue worship. Anyone have any insight into this?

edit: I'm not so sure about my third question...


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 17, 2008)

The fact that Christ attended the Synagogue shows us that it was divinely commanded - even if that command was not recorded in Scripture.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 17, 2008)

See these previous threads
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/james-jordan-s-litergical-nestorianism-regulative-principle-15424/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/Jesus-synagogue-rpw-19885/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/synagogue-worship-musical-instruments-regulative-principle-13358/


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 17, 2008)

If the regulative principle is the teaching of the second commandment, and Christ perfectly kept the second commandment, then attending the synagogue was consistent with the RPW. Consequently, the synagogue was divinely established, otherwise Christ would not have attended it.


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## Kevin (Jan 17, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> If the regulative principle is the teaching of the second commandment, and Christ perfectly kept the second commandment, then attending the synagogue was consistent with the RPW. Consequently, the synagogue was divinely established, otherwise Christ would not have attended it.



Would you hold that every place Christ (or the Apostles) shared the gospel a divinly ordained place of worship?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 17, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > If the regulative principle is the teaching of the second commandment, and Christ perfectly kept the second commandment, then attending the synagogue was consistent with the RPW. Consequently, the synagogue was divinely established, otherwise Christ would not have attended it.
> ...



No, what I am saying is that the _system_ of worship in the synagogue was divinely authorized. This has nothing to do with holy places.


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 17, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> The fact that Christ attended the Synagogue shows us that it was divinely commanded - even if that command was not recorded in Scripture.



No it doesn't. That's an assumption.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 17, 2008)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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> > The fact that Christ attended the Synagogue shows us that it was divinely commanded - even if that command was not recorded in Scripture.
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Yes it does. The RPW does not only refer to _explicit_ commands, but also takes on board legitimate historical examples - such as public worship on the first day of the week.

The bottom line is, in the OT it is abundantly clear that God is only to be worshiped in His own divinely established way - to do otherwise is to commit sin - since Christ never committed sin, he did not break the RPW by attending the synagogue, therefore, the synagogue was divinely commanded, even if the command was not written down.


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## Stephen (Jan 17, 2008)

I would perhaps not hold to the strict regulative principle that Daniel holds, but I do agree with him that worship in the New Testament was patterned after the synagogue. Christian worship is not based on the temple worship of the Old Testament, which is the form that Rome and and Anglo-Catholics would prescribe, but it is based on the pattern of the synagogue, where the word of God is the central element of worship. This pattern of worship is seen in historic Christian liturgy and certainly the pattern in Presbyterian worship.


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## moral necessity (Jan 17, 2008)

I would add that, when the hour arrived for the change, Jesus encouraged and sanctioned worship in the mountains of Samaria, as well as in every other place on earth, which was very early in his ministry. For in Jn.4:23, he said that the "hour is now here, when true worshippers will worship in spirit and in truth." He did not encourage the Samaritans to get to a synagogue for appropriate worship of God (see Jn.4:39-44). Christ had established, with his ministry, the new way of worshipping God; and it was apart from all of what went on before in Judaism, synagogues and temple included. The hour of new worship had come, and it came before 70AD. And, under that umbrella, all could worship God apart from the synagogue or within the synagogue, including himself. When he was a youth or a young man, if he attended a synagogue for worship purposes, it would validate the legitimacy of it. When he attended a synagogue during his ministry, the hour had already come to worship in spirit and in truth; and so, worship could be performed anywhere, and in such a manner as "spirit and truth" implies. The sacrifices we offer are not those of bulls and goats, but those of "praise to God,...the fruit of lips that acknowledge his name." (Heb.13:15)


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 17, 2008)

bradofshaw said:


> I've been wondering about this and didn't know how to find the answer. I've often heard that the New Testament sabbath service is based on synagogue worship. Obviously the temple worship is described in great detail in the OT, but what about synagogues? If our present day worship is to be structured by scripture, how did scripture structure OT synagogue worship? This isn't strictly a criticism of RPW, I'm actually more interested in why the NT church, specifically Reformed, worships the way it does. So my initial questions are:
> 
> 1. Where and when was the pattern for synagogue worship developed? Am I right that this developed during the exile?
> 
> ...





Here is a good link...

Sabbath and Synagogue: The Question ... - Google Book Search


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 18, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


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I'm assuming by legitimate historical examples, you mean those found in scripture, correct ?

Would you agree equally that, for example, Christ celebrated the Festival of Lights (John 10), though it was not explicitly commanded in scripture, that it was divinely commaned ?


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 18, 2008)

*Lachman on John 10 vs RJ Gore*

RE: John 10, David Lachman gives the common Puritan response in his review of R.J. Gore's doctrinal thesis, The Pursuit of Plainness: Rethinking the Regulative Principle of Worship.” Ph.D. Dissertation, Westminster Theological Seminary, 1988. 
Text from "Reframing Presbyterian Worship: A Critical Survey of the Worship Views ofJohn M. Frame and R. J. Gore," _The Confessional Presbyterian_ 1 (2005) 138-139.*Voluntary Jewish Feasts*​Gore passes on to a discussion of Jesus’s observance of the Voluntary Jewish Feasts, proving to his satisfaction from the witness of a variety of modern commentators that when Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of the Feast of the Dedication (John 10:22) it implies that he was there in order to participate in its observation. He interprets John 5:1 (“After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem”) in similar fashion. But he does not bother to consider that the presence of Jesus in Jerusalem at such times might have been timed in order to enable him to speak to the much larger numbers of people then present there. Certainly there is nothing inherent in either passage which implies his participation in either feast. That it is quite possible to interpret these passages as merely alluding to the time of year Jesus was in Jerusalem does not come under Gore’s consideration. This is a serious flaw in that if he had bothered to look into Puritan commentaries on the passages in question he would have found that this is what they argued is the correct interpretation. It is particularly reprehensible that he does not even refer to George Gillespie’s discussion of the subject in his _English Popish Ceremonies_ (EPC, 3.6.8-11, 264-270): admittedly this is not an easy work to read, but granted the subject matter of Gore’s dissertation it should not be too much to expect a familiarity with the whole of the work and an interaction with it when it impinges on the points he is trying to make. Generally, a responsible scholarly discussion of the matter would at least take into account Puritan exegesis of the passages in question. Lacking even the rudiments of this, Gore’s treatment of the matter is wholly without merit.32​------------​32. We note here that Dean Gore made some significant changes to this section dealing with voluntary Jewish feasts in Covenantal Worship, including adding references to Gillespie’s arguments, one dealing with John 10:22 and the other with Purim. We refer the reader to the following section in this survey dealing with that work.​


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## KMK (Jan 18, 2008)

Would it be safe to say that Jesus' participation in Synagogue worship implies that there is no inherant violation of the RPW in that format? After all, he didn't turn over the tables in the Synagogue.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 18, 2008)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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Correct on the first point.

I would concur with what Chris has said on the second question; there is no evidence that Christ did celebrate the Feast of Dedication. For instance, if you read in a biography "John Knox was in Edinburgh when Mary Queen of Scots received Mass", would you jump to the conclusion that Knox partook of the popish Mass just because he happened to be in Edinburgh at the time?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

KMK said:


> Would it be safe to say that Jesus' participation in Synagogue worship implies that there is no inherant violation of the RPW in that format? After all, he didn't turn over the tables in the Synagogue.



Yes.


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## toddpedlar (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> The fact that Christ attended the Synagogue shows us that it was divinely commanded - even if that command was not recorded in Scripture.



This seems to me a strange assertion, and begs the question (in my opinion). It implicitly assumes a strict RPW - rather than serving as evidence that perhaps the strictest form of RPW is a misreading of Scripture? Now I'm not getting into an RPW debate here... just noting what seems to be an inconsistency, and which then begets some ugly consequences. You're asserting the existence of some divine command for the regular worship of the people of God that never ended up recorded in Scripture?


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## AV1611 (Jan 19, 2008)

bradofshaw said:


> 1. Where and when was the pattern for synagogue worship developed? Am I right that this developed during the exile?
> 
> 2. Are there any scriptures that speak to this? Specifically, what was expected of the Israelites as far as worship on the Sabbath?



If I may make some comments; we find the institution of the synagogue in Leviticus 23 and the second commandment regulated what would happen. We know that very early on families worshipped God and they did so through prayer and Word. In the synagoge one would have found all that occurred in the Temple save that which was restricted to the Temple.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 19, 2008)

Synagogue Worship - Alfred Edersheim

another article speaking on this.. Very interesting.

From the article:

The church #1577 ekklesia - assembly, called out ones, set apart ones, congregation; in Hebrew this word is #6951 qahal (kahal) - a "synagogue" (E. W. Bullinger, Commentary on Revelation, p. 165-166), an assemblage, congregation, company from the root #6950 qahal meaning specifically a coming together, an assembling, a convocation, congregation; this word is used mostly for religious purposes (see William Wilson's Old Testament Word Studies, p. 92)

The LXX uses the word ekklesia to translate the Hebrew qahal. Qahal means to call, to assemble, and the noun form means a congregation or assembly. Solomon is called koheleth the Preacher, translated by the LXX ekklesiastes. The earliest known occurrence of the word is found in Job 30:28, ‘I cried in the congregation’. In the books of the law, qahal is rendered by the Greek word sunagoge, showing that the synagogue is the beginning of the New Testament church. Stephen in his speech which ended in his martyrdom referred to the history of Israel, and dwells for considerable length upon the one great leader Moses, saying in Acts 7:38:

‘This is he, that was in the CHURCH in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai’.

The people of Israel, looked upon as ‘a called-out assembly’ were ‘the Church’ of that period.


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## Gesetveemet (Jan 19, 2008)

bradofshaw said:


> 2. Are there any scriptures that speak to this? Specifically, what was expected of the Israelites as far as worship on the Sabbath?



This is the third paragraph under the heading *“IV. The Ministry of the Word in the Synagogue” *pg 94



> *The Reading & Preaching of the Scriptures Series: The Biblical Period, Volume 1* By: Hughes Oliphant Old
> _Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Co. / 1998 / Paperback_
> 
> *Product Description*
> ...



The Authorized Version says:

Psalm 74:8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.

My


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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> > The fact that Christ attended the Synagogue shows us that it was divinely commanded - even if that command was not recorded in Scripture.
> ...



As I have explained elsewhere on this thread the RPW does not just refer to _explicit_ commands recorded in Scripture, but to valid historical examples. When there is a valid historical example of something being employed in the worship of God, then we can deduce, by good and necessary consequence that such a thing is divinely authorized. There were loads of things revealed to the prophets, which where not recorded in Scripture; why is this a problem?

Also if the strict interpretation of the RPW is wrong, then precisely what is the "unstrict" interpretation of the RPW? To me it sounds like human autonomy and imposing man-made rites on the Lord's people.


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## KMK (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> toddpedlar said:
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Daniel, is this what you are saying?

Because Jesus participated in Synagogue worship all worship *must* follow the format of the Synagogue. 

Or...

Because Jesus participated in Synagogue worship *may* follow the format of the Synagogue.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

KMK said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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I go for the first option. The second option is definitely out, as that makes worship ordinances an optional extra. If God is sovereign only He can determine how He is to be worshipped. Otherwise the creature dictates to the Creator how He is to be worshipped.

NT worship must follow the synagogue - scripture reading, preaching, psalm-singing without musical accompaniment, prayer etc - in addition we have the NT ordinances of baptism and the Lord's Supper.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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> > The fact that Christ attended the Synagogue shows us that it was divinely commanded - even if that command was not recorded in Scripture.
> ...



If the "strict" (i.e. Confessional) view of the RPW is a misreading of Scripture then why does Leviticus 10:1 say: 



> "Then Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, each took his censer and put fire in it, put incense on it, and offered profane fire before the LORD, which He had not commanded them."



Considering that Christ did not commit the sin of engaging in worship which God had not commanded, then His attendance at the synagogue shows us that the worship of the synagogue was divinely ordained.


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## KMK (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> KMK said:
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1) You mean only elements of worship in the Synagogue that were actually prescribed by God in His Word, correct? If it was found that there were Synagogues who practiced 'altar calls' would that bind us to do the same?

2) Is there really a need for the Synagogue to even come up in discussions of the RPW since all of the elements you mentioned are prescribed in other places? In other words,, what does synagogue worship teach us about NT worship that the Bible doesn't teach in other places? 

Or is this going to just turn into another EP/musical instruments debate?


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## Gesetveemet (Jan 19, 2008)

bradofshaw said:


> 1. Where and when was the pattern for synagogue worship developed? Am I right that this developed during the exile?
> 
> 2. Are there any scriptures that speak to this? Specifically, what was expected of the Israelites as far as worship on the Sabbath?




I am just amazed that the KJV uses the word synagogues. Praise the Lord for His infallible word! 


*Ps 74:8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.*




.


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 19, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> RE: John 10, David Lachman gives the common Puritan response in his review of R.J. Gore's doctrinal thesis, The Pursuit of Plainness: Rethinking the Regulative Principle of Worship.” Ph.D. Dissertation, Westminster Theological Seminary, 1988.
> Text from "Reframing Presbyterian Worship: A Critical Survey of the Worship Views ofJohn M. Frame and R. J. Gore," _The Confessional Presbyterian_ 1 (2005) 138-139.*Voluntary Jewish Feasts*​Gore passes on to a discussion of Jesus’s observance of the Voluntary Jewish Feasts, proving to his satisfaction from the witness of a variety of modern commentators that when Jesus was in Jerusalem at the time of the Feast of the Dedication (John 10:22) it implies that he was there in order to participate in its observation. He interprets John 5:1 (“After these things there was a feast of the Jews, and Jesus went up to Jerusalem”) in similar fashion. But he does not bother to consider that the presence of Jesus in Jerusalem at such times might have been timed in order to enable him to speak to the much larger numbers of people then present there. Certainly there is nothing inherent in either passage which implies his participation in either feast. That it is quite possible to interpret these passages as merely alluding to the time of year Jesus was in Jerusalem does not come under Gore’s consideration. This is a serious flaw in that if he had bothered to look into Puritan commentaries on the passages in question he would have found that this is what they argued is the correct interpretation. It is particularly reprehensible that he does not even refer to George Gillespie’s discussion of the subject in his _English Popish Ceremonies_ (EPC, 3.6.8-11, 264-270): admittedly this is not an easy work to read, but granted the subject matter of Gore’s dissertation it should not be too much to expect a familiarity with the whole of the work and an interaction with it when it impinges on the points he is trying to make. Generally, a responsible scholarly discussion of the matter would at least take into account Puritan exegesis of the passages in question. Lacking even the rudiments of this, Gore’s treatment of the matter is wholly without merit.32​------------​32. We note here that Dean Gore made some significant changes to this section dealing with voluntary Jewish feasts in Covenantal Worship, including adding references to Gillespie’s arguments, one dealing with John 10:22 and the other with Purim. We refer the reader to the following section in this survey dealing with that work.​



So.....what if Puritan exegesis of the passage is wrong ? It wouldn't be the first time a group of individuals have all consistently read a passage of scripture or passages of scripture wrong or adopted a tradition that was unbiblical and simply passed it on as biblical.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

KMK said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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1. Since Christ participated in the worship of the synagogue we know that its worship was divinely prescribed. If you could prove _from Scripture_ that altar calls were used in the synagogue that would be legitimate, but since this has never been done, then we know that altar calls are not divinely prescribed.

2. Maybe, but it is usually people who are opposed to the RPW who bring this up.


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## KMK (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


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1. But what about 'traditional' practices. If it could be proved from non Biblical sources that they were performing 'altar calls' at some Synagogues during Jesus' lifetime, would that bind us to also perform 'altar calls'?

2. I sense that you are armed and ready if such a battle ensues!


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> KMK said:
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Daniel, I agree the NT assembly was brought forth from what was done in the Synogogue, but not an exact replica. It was still part of the Old. Please read the articles I provided. They show a tremendous amount of evidence of the subject.


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## Bygracealone (Jan 19, 2008)

After thumbing through John Price's work "Old Light on New Worship," I came across some references that would be worth reading: Girardeau's "Instrumental Music in Church Worship" available on line here: Instrumental Music in the Public Worship of the Church. Particularly chapter two where he proves the link between synagogue worship and NT worship. 

Also, Hughes Oliphant Old, who is quite respected in this field, also agrees. See his work "Worship: Reformed According to Scripture" 

Douglas Bannerman said, "The worship of the apostolic Church at home was just in substance the worship of the Hebrew synagogue or proseucha." [found in his work "The Scripture Doctrine of the Church," p. 361]

I also came across a quote from notable historian Philip Schaff where he says, "As the Christian Church rests historically on the Jewish Church, so Christian worship and the congregational organization rest on that of the synagogue, and cannot be well understood without it." [from "History of the Christian Church," p. 456, see also 461-5]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 19, 2008)

Samuel Miller gives an extended discussion showing that the Jewish Synagogue is the Biblical model for Christian ecclesiastical government and worship in Letter 2 of his _Letters Concerning the Constitution and Order of the Christian Ministry_, particularly beginning at p. 36, which is available online here.


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## Bygracealone (Jan 19, 2008)

That's right Andrew, I forgot about Miller. Chapters 2 and 3 of his work "The Ruling Elder" also makes the case. Can be found here: Reformed Books and Commentaries


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


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I agree its not an exact replica; hence I mentioned the administration of the NT sacraments.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

KMK said:


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1. Non-Biblical sources are not an authoritative guide 2 Tim. 3:16.

2.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


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Yet baptism and the Supper are not the only 2 changes Daniel.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 19, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


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If you can prove other changes from Scripture - and I do not deny that there are more - then that is fine by me.


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## bradofshaw (Jan 19, 2008)

Thanks for everyone's replies. I haven't had time to read through all of the sources, just the replies and Andrew's link.

But is the consensus that we don't have a description of the origins of synagogue worship in Scripture itself? Also, it seems like what we know about synagogue worship mainly comes from non-scriptural Jewish writings and those of the early church fathers. Am I wrong in making this assumption?


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## KMK (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


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So you would say that synagogue worship *as it is prescribed in Scripture* is binding on NT worship. But any Synagogue worship practices that were not prescribed in Scripture are not binding on NT worship.

Am I on the right track?


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## bookslover (Jan 19, 2008)

Gesetveemet said:


> I am just amazed that the KJV uses the word synagogues. Praise the Lord for His infallible word! *Ps 74:8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.*
> .



Well, "synagogues" is the English translation. Knowing what the Hebrew word is there will tell you whether the translators were correct to use "synagogues" or not. The ESV, for example, uses the phrase "meeting places" in Psalm 74:8.

Also, Joey Pipa has written on this subject of synagogue worship as template for the New Testament church, somewhere.


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## Gesetveemet (Jan 19, 2008)

bookslover said:


> Gesetveemet said:
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> > I am just amazed that the KJV uses the word synagogues. Praise the Lord for His infallible word! *Ps 74:8 They said in their hearts, Let us destroy them together: they have burned up all the synagogues of God in the land.*
> ...




Sorry I had a little spell.  In the future I will try to keep my post’s on the PB to a minimum as there is a good core group of scholarly folk  which includes perhaps yourself. 

Hope you have (had) a good Lord’s day 


.


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## bookslover (Jan 19, 2008)

Gesetveemet said:


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I wouldn't call myself a scholar, and I would encourage you to keep posting on the PB. Posting is good; it keeps you away from all the TV reruns...


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## Ivan (Jan 19, 2008)

bookslover said:


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## toddpedlar (Jan 19, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


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Daniel -

I realize this is a hot topic, and I am asking simply because I am interested in how this discussion plays out. 

I sense something somewhat contradictory in what you have said in this thread. You first say that because Christ worshipped in the synagogues, then all that was done in the synagogues must have had divine command.

Then you say that non-Biblical sources are not an authoritative guide. 

So what guided the synagogue worshippers? I don't mean the initial ones,
who I assume you would say were guided by divinely-inspired prophets* 
as you have already asserted must have laid down the commands for specific practices in the synagogue. No, I'm talking about the ones that led synagogue worship that Christ participated in. Where did they get their divine guidance?

Todd

* but those who never apparently bothered to write anything down recording their divine inspiration


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## KMK (Jan 19, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


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This is where I was going as well. How do we know what was going on in that Synagogue when Jesus participated?


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 20, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


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Daniel, the irony of your statement brings a confused look to my face.( I am actually scrunching my forhead and eyes, kinda shaking side to side) You in one breath say even though we read nothing in scripture pertaining to what happened in the synogogue, Christ did it, so it must be divinely commanded. Then ask me to prove from scripture what is different? 

_Ken asked :This is where I was going as well. How do we know what was going on in that Synagogue when Jesus participated?_

We must go to a Jew who knows...


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


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Right, basically I have to ask "are you saying that Christ would have participated in worship that was not divinely commanded?" As it is clear from other portions of Scripture that worship must be divinely commanded in order to be acceptable, then the analogy of Scripture leads us to accept that Christ must not have participated in worship that was not divinely commanded. At the end of the day those who reject this logic have to assert that Christ violated the RPW, and that the RPW is wrong. 



> * but those who never apparently bothered to write anything down recording their divine inspiration



Surely you must acknowledge that there were many inspired prophecies that were not written down? While the command is not recorded in Scripture concerning all that went on in the synagogue, Christ's participation in the synagogue's worship is enough to show us it was divinely commanded, thus the principle of Sola Scriptura is not violated.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


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From Scripture we do know what went on in the synagogue i.e. reading the word, preaching etc.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

KMK said:


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Read the gospel accounts.


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## KMK (Jan 20, 2008)

If this is all the argument boils down to then I don't understand why the synagogue is relevant to the RPW. What you are saying is that Synagogues followed the RPW (as it is prescribed in the Bible) to the letter. And our worship must follow the RPW as well as it is prescribed in the Bible.

Lets get down to the nitty-gritty. What does Synagogue worship teach us about the RPW that the Bible doesn't already?


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 20, 2008)

bradofshaw said:


> I've been wondering about this and didn't know how to find the answer. I've often heard that the New Testament sabbath service is based on synagogue worship. Obviously the temple worship is described in great detail in the OT, but what about synagogues? If our present day worship is to be structured by scripture, how did scripture structure OT synagogue worship? This isn't strictly a criticism of RPW, I'm actually more interested in why the NT church, specifically Reformed, worships the way it does. So my initial questions are:
> 
> 1. Where and when was the pattern for synagogue worship developed? Am I right that this developed during the exile?
> 
> ...





AS I look to where this thread has gone, i am not sure this original question has been answered for Brad. Instead it has turned into an RPW conversation. I sense that Brad was not even trying to bring the RPW into the conversation, yet Daniel has. So where do we go from here?

The synogogue post exile, has to be the focus. This is when the Hebrews honestly becaome more monolithic in worshipping the one true God. Prior to this, their 'worship' was plagued by much troubles. I do nto know if anything different took place in the synogogue from walkign with Christ and listening to his teachings on some hillside.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

KMK said:


> If this is all the argument boils down to then I don't understand why the synagogue is relevant to the RPW. What you are saying is that Synagogues followed the RPW (as it is prescribed in the Bible) to the letter. And our worship must follow the RPW as well as it is prescribed in the Bible.



Its because anti-RPW people bring it up; your second sentence is basically a summary of my position.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 20, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > If this is all the argument boils down to then I don't understand why the synagogue is relevant to the RPW. What you are saying is that Synagogues followed the RPW (as it is prescribed in the Bible) to the letter. And our worship must follow the RPW as well as it is prescribed in the Bible.
> ...



Maybe they bring it up becasue it is a good question Daniel. And your answer does not satisfy them.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jan 20, 2008)

A notation on Psalm 74:8 - the Hebrew idea behind the word "mow`ed" means that it was an appointed place or time of meeting, and oftentimes (over 250 times) was in reference to a sacred time of meeting (including some of the appointed feats, and sabbath times). Its is used of the community of God's people gathering themselves as a "sacred congregation" over 150 times through the OT, which is its basic usage.

The problem the Psalmist raises is that there was an encoruagement of destroying God's people, but that the assemblies they had together would also be destroyed and suppressed.​ 
In the NT, the derrivative of this word which is the Greek _equivalent_ of the idea enhoused in the OT word, is used 23 times.​ 
Some examples:​ 
23 And Jesus went about all Galilee, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing all manner of sickness and all manner of disease among the people.

KJV *Matthew 6:2* Therefore when thou doest _thine _alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.​ 
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites _are_: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.​ 
KJV *Matthew 9:35* And Jesus went about all the cities and villages, teaching in their synagogues, and preaching the gospel of the kingdom, and healing every sickness and every disease among the people.​ 
KJV *Matthew 10:17* But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues;​ 
KJV *Matthew 23:6* And love the uppermost rooms at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,​ 
34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and _some _of them ye shall kill and crucify; and _some _of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute _them _from city to city:​ 
KJV *Mark 1:39* And he preached in their synagogues throughout all Galilee, and cast out devils.​ 
KJV *Mark 12:39* And the chief seats in the synagogues, and the uppermost rooms at feasts:​ 
KJV *Mark 13:9* But take heed to yourselves: for they shall deliver you up to councils; and in the synagogues ye shall be beaten: and ye shall be brought before rulers and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them.​ 
KJV *Luke 4:15* And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all...44 And he preached in the synagogues of Galilee.​ 
KJV *Luke 11:43* Woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye love the uppermost seats in the synagogues, and greetings in the markets.​ 
KJV *Luke 12:11* And when they bring you unto the synagogues, and _unto _magistrates, and powers, take ye no thought how or what thing ye shall answer, or what ye shall say:

KJV *Luke 13:10* And he was teaching in one of the synagogues on the sabbath.​ 
KJV *Luke 20:46* Beware of the scribes, which desire to walk in long robes, and love greetings in the markets, and the highest seats in the synagogues, and the chief rooms at feasts;​ 
KJV *Luke 21:12* But before all these, they shall lay their hands on you, and persecute _you_, delivering _you _up to the synagogues, and into prisons, being brought before kings and rulers for my name's sake.​ 
KJV *John 16:2* They shall put you out of the synagogues: yea, the time cometh, that whosoever killeth you will think that he doeth God service.​ 
KJV *Acts 9:2* And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem...20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.​ 
KJV *Acts 13:5* And when they were at Salamis, they preached the word of God in the synagogues of the Jews: and they had also John to _their _minister.​ 
KJV *Acts 15:21* For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day.​ 
KJV *Acts 24:12* And they neither found me in the temple disputing with any man, neither raising up the people, neither in the synagogues, nor in the city:

It is an actually interesting idea that the community of God's called out ones is the basis for "gathering" or "synagoging" together to pray, sing, hear the Scriptures read, and have them commented. I would contest that the sunagogue was a reflection of the temple, and not aside or instead of the temple, since all the elements of temple worship are CRITICAL to our worship today - i.e. a high priest, atonement, sacrifice, sacramentaology, etc. The Temple's destruction was not a removal of the temple, but a transferrence of the realities completed in Jesus Christ that still continue for God's elect people, if I might say - the "synagoging ones", or those who "synagogue together, as the Aposlte James states.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > KMK said:
> ...



Maybe; but their contention would mean that on the one had Christ condemned the Pharisees for observing human traditions in worship (Matt. 15), while on the other, He participate in man-made rights Himself. The argument fails to stand up to the analogy of Scripture. Furthermore, those who employ this argument (like Steve Schlissel) usually set up a straw-man version of the RPW (explicit commands only, when, in reality, the RPW allows for explicit commands, historical examples and valid logical deductions from Scripture), which they proceed to knock down by using this argument.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 20, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Amazing Grace said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Ritchie said:
> ...





WHo is saying anything about Christ participating in the "traditions of men"? I sure hope you do not believe that 'correct worship' follows some form of ritualistic rubric Daniel? We are not exactly sure of what went on in a synagogue other than specualting and giving an educated guess. We can glean from the writ what took place in prinicple, but post exile is the period we are concerned with in this thread. We cannot take Acts 2 as some legal binding pattern of what took place in exact order. The New Testament never defines worship in a precise pattern which is a replica of either temple or synagogue. In fact there is nothing recorded by our Lord in the Gospels where he speaks about what is to take place this one hour a week on sunday as being a replica of the synagogue


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing Grace said:
> ...



The argument would be that if Christ could attend the synagogue, then we too can invent our own modes of worship.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 20, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Amazing Grace said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Ritchie said:
> ...





I apologize Daniel, for I have no clue how to grasp this conclusion or find it anwhere in men's writings. Perhaps I am missing your point ont his whole synagogue pattern for the NT assembly. Are you equating since there is no pattern for synagogue worship as there is for the temple, then "these people' contend that synagogue worship was wrong? And synagogue was a tradition of men?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 20, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing Grace said:
> ...



No apology needed; the people who employ this argument would not say that synagogue worship was wrong, but that Christ's attendance at the synagogue shows us that divine warrant for worship practices is not needed and that strict regulation only applied to the worship of the temple.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 20, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Amazing Grace said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Ritchie said:
> ...



OK, now I understand.. phewwwwwwwwww


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 20, 2008)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> It is an actually interesting idea that the community of God's called out ones is the basis for "gathering" or "synagoging" together to pray, sing, hear the Scriptures read, and have them commented. I would contest that the sunagogue was a reflection of the temple, and not aside or instead of the temple, since all the elements of temple worship are CRITICAL to our worship today - i.e. a high priest, atonement, sacrifice, sacramentaology, etc. The Temple's destruction was not a removal of the temple, but a transferrence of the realities completed in Jesus Christ that still continue for God's elect people, if I might say - the "synagoging ones", or those who "synagogue together, as the Aposlte James states.



 Interesting...

I don't know if any of you bothered to read this lengthy thread that occurred a while back: http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/synagogue-worship-musical-instruments-regulative-principle-13358/

It is clear to me that God's people were commanded to assemble together to worship one day in seven. The principle is not only in the Law but I would argue this is a Creation Ordinance with the Sabbath.

On my very basic defense of the RPW: Why the Regulative Principle of Worship? | SoliDeoGloria.com

In a nutshell, fallen man needs Divine Institution because his heart is deceitfully wicked.

This is why discussions of the RPW are inevitable and I commend bradofshaw for noting this fact.

What you note, Matthew, seems to me to be indispensible that the idea of assembling is clearly commanded and understood. What I think we need to recognize, additionally, is the idea of the targum. That is to say that not all traditions were necessarily simply the traditions of men simply because men were those who put the traditions in place. We even note Biblical authors using this mode of teaching and expansion upon the Scriptures. In one sense, even the Septuagint (which Christ quotes from) is an interpretation (or targum) of the original language.

It is fascinating, for instance, to see tremendous Biblical insights by some Rabbis centuries before Christ who taught that when Messiah came that temple sacrifices would cease.

This is a round-about way of saying that I think Synagogue is a Biblical concept but that the elements of it were recognized by God's people and, more specifically, the elders in the OT assembly. As I think of my Old Covenant forbears as essentially worshipping the same substance as I, I also must conclude that God providentially guided Rabbis and elders in the formation of elements and forms in synagogue worship.

That said, however, I'm not sure we're going to be able to "proof-text" all the decisions as to circumstances but you can certainly find warrant for the elements therein.


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## bradofshaw (Jan 21, 2008)

I was actually trying to figure out how I would explain to somebody why our worship service appears the way it does, and how the Bible addresses that. That has obvious implications for the RPW, but I was hoping to not get ahead of myself by jumping into that. The thread title did sort of bait in that direction though... 

Since it is well accepted that the NT church worship is patterned after the synagogue, the obvious question is, "What is the synagogue patterned after?" I hear a lot about the details of the OT sacrificial system demonstrating the strictness with which God regulates His worship. Yet the question of how the synagogue was regulated is not so clear to me. I think Matthew addressed this, but what role does temple worship play in what has become our new testament worship? It makes sense, to say that the worship in the synagogues was patterned after elements set forth in temple worship. As well, it sounds like God's people have more or less intuitively met together to worship on the Sabbath, without a specific command to do so. I can also see how we can pull together elements of what was done in the synagogues from the NT references to it.

My follow up post was overlooked in the shuffle:



bradofshaw said:


> Thanks for everyone's replies. I haven't had time to read through all of the sources, just the replies and Andrew's link.
> 
> But is the consensus that we don't have a description of the origins of synagogue worship in Scripture itself? Also, it seems like what we know about synagogue worship mainly comes from non-scriptural Jewish writings and those of the early church fathers. Am I wrong in making this assumption?


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 21, 2008)

No you are not wrong in making that assumption. I would say we have a "description" of the origins of Synagogue worship in the ordinance of the Sabbath but that's merely its institution. How it was arranged is not spoken of.

An interesting note would be that, even if Scripture is silent on what occurred, I'm convinced that God's people were worshipping Him every Sabbath even before the Law prescribed Tabernacle worship. Even with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob the Law did not come until 400+ years after the Gospel was proclaimed to them. They still had the Law written on their hearts and worshipped their God according to the light given them.

Yet, the Law was added for transgression to prepare men for their Savior. Even as the Law more fully revealed God's Law on the other commandments they already innately knew, can't we conclude that He also revealed more of Himself in worship? I imagine that perhaps some pagan elements or misunderstanding might have entered into worship during those preceding centuries and the Law of God helped to clean up their understanding of Synagogue worship.


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## Amazing Grace (Jan 21, 2008)

bradofshaw said:


> I was actually trying to figure out how I would explain to somebody why our worship service appears the way it does, and how the Bible addresses that. That has obvious implications for the RPW, but I was hoping to not get ahead of myself by jumping into that. The thread title did sort of bait in that direction though...
> 
> Since it is well accepted that the NT church worship is patterned after the synagogue, the obvious question is, "What is the synagogue patterned after?" I hear a lot about the details of the OT sacrificial system demonstrating the strictness with which God regulates His worship. Yet the question of how the synagogue was regulated is not so clear to me. I think Matthew addressed this, but what role does temple worship play in what has become our new testament worship? It makes sense, to say that the worship in the synagogues was patterned after elements set forth in temple worship. As well, it sounds like God's people have more or less intuitively met together to worship on the Sabbath, without a specific command to do so. I can also see how we can pull together elements of what was done in the synagogues from the NT references to it.
> 
> ...





Brad, scripture makes a distinction of worship and assembling together, both in the synogogue and the NT assembly. I have to find this article from William Law who states with assurance that the way we worship, ie once a week for an hour or so, is not the same as assembling together and what went on in that reagrds in the synogogue or NT assembly. 

44All the believers were together and had everything in common. 45Selling their possessions and goods, they gave to anyone as he had need. 46Every day they continued to meet together in the temple courts. They broke bread in their homes and ate together with glad and sincere hearts, 47praising God and enjoying the favor of all the people. And the Lord added to their number daily those who were being saved

WHat we consider worship on Sunday is not what was predominant back then. Hence we have very few additions...


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