# 1 Corinthians 14:34



## Scott Shahan (Sep 8, 2008)

Question about 1 Corinthians 14:34, Where in the Law is the Apostle Paul refering to?

34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, *as also saith the law.*

Calvin's commentary wasn't helpful, I am talking to a woman and she has challenged me on this verse. She wants to know where in the OT does it say that a woman has to be silent, When Paul say's "as also saith the law", I am just wondering what part of the OT is he refering to?

thanks


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## TaylorOtwell (Sep 8, 2008)

Scott Shahan said:


> 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, *as also saith the law.*



This may be an ignorant response; however, perhaps Paul is connecting the "as also saith the law" with "commanded to be under obedience". If that is the case, it could have its roots all the way back into the pronouncements after the Fall.


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

TaylorOtwell said:


> Scott Shahan said:
> 
> 
> > 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, *as also saith the law.*
> ...



This sounds right. The "as also saith" goes with "commanded to be under obedience," not "keep silence in the churches." Paul is teaching that the latter is a particular application of the former principle.


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## ModernPuritan? (Sep 8, 2008)

JOhn Gill on it

1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches,.... This is a restriction of, and an exception to one of the above rules, that all might prophesy; in which he would be understood of men only, and not of women; and is directed against a practice which seems to have prevailed in this church at Corinth, allowing women to preach and teach in it; and this being a disorderly practice, and what was not used in other churches, the apostle forbids and condemns, and not without reason: 

for it is not permitted unto them to speak; that is, in public assemblies, in the church of God, they might not speak with tongues, nor prophesy, or preach, or teach the word. All speaking is not prohibited; they might speak their experiences to the church, or give an account of the work of God upon their souls; they might speak to one another in psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs; or speak as an evidence in any case at a church meeting; but not in such sort, as carried in it direction, instruction, government, and authority. It was not allowed by God that they should speak in any authoritative manner in the church; nor was it suffered in the churches of Christ; nor was it admitted of in the Jewish synagogue; there, we are told (b), the men came to teach, and the women לשמוע, "to hear": and one of their canons runs thus (c); 

"a woman may not read (that is, in the law), בצבור, "in the congregation", or church, because of the honour of the congregation;'' 

for they thought it a dishonourable thing to a public assembly for a woman to read, though they even allowed a child to do it that was capable of it. 

But they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law. In Gen_3:16, "thy desire shall be to thy husband, and he shall rule over thee". By this the apostle would signify, that the reason why women are not to speak in the church, or to preach and teach publicly, or be concerned in the ministerial function, is, because this is an act of power, and authority; of rule and government, and so contrary to that subjection which God in his law requires of women unto men. The extraordinary instances of Deborah, Huldah, and Anna, must not be drawn into a rule or example in such cases. 

(b) T. Hieros Chagiga, fol. 75. 4. & T. Bab. Chagiga, fol. 3. 1. (c) Maimon. Hilch. Tephilla, c. 12. sect. 17. T. Bab. Megilla, fol. 23. 1.


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## Davidius (Sep 8, 2008)

ModernPuritan? said:


> JOhn Gill on it
> 
> 1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches,.... This is a restriction of, and an exception to one of the above rules, that all might prophesy; in which he would be understood of men only, and not of women; and is directed against a practice which seems to have prevailed in this church at Corinth, allowing women to preach and teach in it; and this being a disorderly practice, and what was not used in other churches, the apostle forbids and condemns, and not without reason:
> 
> ...



Perhaps this is  but the funny thing about Mr. Gill's commentary, and the thing that still perplexes me about 1 Cor 11-14, is that Paul mentions women praying and prophesying with headcoverings in chapter 11.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 8, 2008)

Right -- I believe Gen. 3.15-16 is in view here.


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## ModernPuritan? (Sep 8, 2008)

Davidius said:


> ModernPuritan? said:
> 
> 
> > JOhn Gill on it
> ...



well, his  on that is"

1Co 11:5 But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth,.... Not that a woman was allowed to pray publicly in the congregation, and much less to preach or explain the word, for these things were not permitted them: see 1Co_14:34 but it designs any woman that joins in public worship with the minister in prayer, and attends on the hearing of the word preached, or sings the praises of God with the congregation, as we have seen, the word prophesying signifies, 

with her head uncovered. It may seem strange from whom the Corinthian women should take up this custom, since the Jewish women were not allowed to go into the streets, or into any open and public place, unveiled (u). It was a Jewish law, that they should go out no where bare headed (w): yea, it was reckoned scandalous and ignominious to do so. Hence it is said, (x) שגלוי הראש גנאי להם, "that uncovering of the head is a reproach" to the daughters of Israel: and concerning the adulterous woman, it is represented as said by the priest (y), 

"thou hast separated from the way of the daughters of Israel; for the way or custom of the daughters of Israel is להיות מכוסות ראשיהן, "to have their heads covered"; but thou hast gone "in the ways of the Gentiles", who walk with head bare.'' 

So that their it should seem that these Corinthians followed the examples of the Heathens: but then, though it might be the custom of some nations for women to go abroad bare headed; yet at their solemnities, where and when they were admitted, for they were not everywhere and always, they used to attend with their heads veiled and covered (z). Mr. Mede takes notice indeed of some Heathen priestesses, who used to perform their religious rites and sacrifices with open face, and their hair hanging down, and locks spreading, in imitation of whom these women at Corinth are thought to act. However, whoever behaved in this uncomely manner, whose example soever she followed, the apostle says, 

dishonoureth her head; not her husband, who is her head in a figurative sense, and is dishonoured by her not being covered; as if she was not subject to him, or because more beautiful than he, and therefore shows herself; but her natural head, as appears from the reason given: 

for that is even all one as if she were shaven; to be without a veil, or some sort of covering on her head, according to the custom of the country, is the same thing as if her head was shaved; and everyone knows how dishonourable and scandalous it is for a woman to have her head shaved; and if this is the same, then it is dishonourable and scandalous to her to be without covering in public worship. And this shows, that the natural head of the man is meant in the preceding verse, since the natural head of the woman is meant in this. 

(u) Maimon. Hilch. Ishot, c. 24. sect. 12. (w) T. Bab. Cetubot, fol. 72. 1. (x) R. Sol. Jarchi in Numb. v. 19. (y) Bemidbar Rabba, sect. 9. fol. 193. 2. (z) Alex. ab Alex. Genial. Dier. l. 4. c. 17.


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## Scott Shahan (Sep 8, 2008)

TaylorOtwell said:


> Scott Shahan said:
> 
> 
> > 34. Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, *as also saith the law.*
> ...




Taylor I think that is right. I think that is what Paul is refering to. I don't find anywhere in the OT that say's a women has to be silent.


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## ModernPuritan? (Sep 9, 2008)

Scott Shahan said:


> TaylorOtwell said:
> 
> 
> > Scott Shahan said:
> ...



could it be oral tradition?


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## Scott Shahan (Sep 9, 2008)

Is it true that there is no male or female in Christ? And that we are ALL the same, there are no differences? Women can do everything that a man can do. I am running into so many egalitarians that hate everything that I believe in.


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## moral necessity (Sep 9, 2008)

Scott Shahan said:


> Is it true that there is no male or female in Christ? And that we are ALL the same, there are no differences? Women can do everything that a man can do. I am running into so many egalitarians that hate everything that I believe in.



Sorry, I meant to hit the quote button....but, in response to your post, in my opinion, (and sorry to get off topic a little), we are no more divided as to any sort of earthly quality or value. For, many cultures placed certain positive values upon male children and adults that they did not place upon female children or adults, as history well testifies and very sadly does so. But, women are equally welcomed into Christ as men are! And, Gentiles and barbarians are equally welcomed, as well as the rich and noble. But, we are all gifted with our own specific traits and wiring. So, women should not use this idea, in my opinion, to try to become suited for tasks that men are more wired for. Men cannot bear children, and cannot mother children quite like a woman can. And so, we should not complain about it, nor should we try to suit ourselves to it. Similarly, women should not crave to be like men, who can more easily separate emotion from behavior, and therefore make a more suitable warrior and fighter for country and causes. Both are properly suited and gifted by God for their appropriate places in society. And, it is a sign of sinful influence, when we desire to abandon our particular molds to so suit that of our opposite counterpart, just so we feel more honorable within ourselves. God made women to be honorable as women. And, he made men to be honorable as men. And so, both ought to feel good about themselves for having such distinctions!

Blessings!


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