# Anyone else find public worship and prayer difficult ?



## JimmyH (May 2, 2013)

At 64 years old I've been a believer for 26 years but only attending church for the past 2 years. I have a healthy prayer life but it is all private. In a closet as it were. In Sunday services there is a period devoted to prayer, and my pastor invites anyone who is so inclined to come to the altar. I've done this only once and felt very self conscious. The same self consciousness has prevented my joining in public prayer during our weekly Bible study and prayer meeting.

Last night I was reading volume 3 of The Works Of David Clarkson. A sermon he gave titled "Public Worship To Be Preferred Before Private." This sermon text, written 300 + years ago has had a profound effect on me. I had heretofore rationalized my reluctance to pray out loud in public to our Lord's admonition to pray in a closet. My reluctance to 'come to the altar' came from my self consciousness and the fear that I would be seen as someone who was trying to affect piety for the sake of ego.

While it may be very obvious to many that public worship glorifies God far more than, as Reverend Clarkson puts it, 'secret worship', the thought had never crossed my mind. I see now that my self centered focus was at the root of my feelings to avoid a public display of my faith. So I've resolved to worship God in public from here on out. Romans 1:16 being my guide.


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## au5t1n (May 2, 2013)

In my opinion, your responsibility in public prayer is satisfied simply by listening to the prayers and giving them your "Amen". You need not feel guilty for not wanting to pray publicly if it is not your calling to "give [yourself] continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word" (Acts 6:4).


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## Tim (May 2, 2013)

au5t1n said:


> In my opinion, your responsibility in public prayer is satisfied simply by listening to the prayers and giving them your "Amen". You need not feel guilty for not wanting to pray publicly if it is not your calling to "give [yourself] continually to prayer, and to the ministry of the word" (Acts 6:4).



I agree. I don't think obedience requires praying out loud at public meetings. Your participation and value you place on public worship is not dependent on this. Here is what I would say is ordinarily required:


You _attend_ public worship by joining together with other Christians on the Lord's Day.
You _listen_ to the Word of God being read.
You _listen_ to the Word of God being preached.
You _sing_ praises to the Lord.
You _pray_ along with the minister by giving your silent and inward assent to the petitions, perhaps also saying "amen" out loud.


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## au5t1n (May 2, 2013)

I think David Clarkson would have agreed. I doubt that laymen taking turns praying during a worship service even crossed his mind. His sermon is more directed towards mindsets like, "We'll skip evening worship and just stay home and have family worship," not out of necessity (e.g., sickness) but by design.


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## Scott1 (May 2, 2013)

You are learning something very important-
God commands all mankind to worship Him, corporately, in family and individually, and in ways according to His Word. The sabbath is especially suited for that.

The greater point, as has been mentioned here, is that corporate worship is to be preferred over private (family and individual) because of the ability in corporate worship to hear the Word authoritatively taught and preached, and the sacraments rightly administered, and have that accountability.
While prayer, both public and private (family and individual) is very important, it is not limited to a minister as would ordinarily be the case an elder, bishop or minister authoritatively teaching the Word or administering the sacraments for corporate worship.

The aspect of recognizing the Body of Christ, and authority God exercises through it is also important. Those who withdraw from it, whether they realize it or not, are denying Christ's Body, and by derivation, Christ Himself. As a pattern, it is a disorderly life pattern, worthy of discipline.

Praying aloud during corporate worship is more incidental to the main point, which I gather you are now understanding better.


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## JimmyH (May 2, 2013)

Scott1 said:


> Y
> Praying aloud during corporate worship is more incidental to the main point, which I gather you are now understanding better.



Thanks to all who have replied. By praying aloud I am not referring to the corporate worship within the Sunday church service. My reference to the Sunday service was in my reluctance to go to the altar to kneel and pray silently. It is in the Wednesday night Bible study, where during the prayer time individual members may pray aloud one at a time, that I would avail myself of the opportunity to pray aloud.


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## Scott1 (May 2, 2013)

Thanks, Jimmy.
Both praying silently while kneeling and praying aloud can be fine attributes of corporate worship, that is worshipping God together, under authority.

You are to be commended for coming to understand the importance of obedience in the corporate worship of God.


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## KMK (May 2, 2013)

JimmyH said:


> At 64 years old I've been a believer for 26 years but only attending church for the past 2 years. I have a healthy prayer life but it is all private. In a closet as it were. In Sunday services there is a period devoted to prayer, and my pastor invites anyone who is so inclined to come to the altar. I've done this only once and felt very self conscious. The same self consciousness has prevented my joining in public prayer during our weekly Bible study and prayer meeting.
> 
> Last night I was reading volume 3 of The Works Of David Clarkson. A sermon he gave titled "Public Worship To Be Preferred Before Private." This sermon text, written 300 + years ago has had a profound effect on me. I had heretofore rationalized my reluctance to pray out loud in public to our Lord's admonition to pray in a closet. My reluctance to 'come to the altar' came from my self consciousness and the fear that I would be seen as someone who was trying to affect piety for the sake of ego.
> 
> While it may be very obvious to many that public worship glorifies God far more than, as Reverend Clarkson puts it, 'secret worship', the thought had never crossed my mind. I see now that my self centered focus was at the root of my feelings to avoid a public display of my faith. So I've resolved to worship God in public from here on out. Romans 1:16 being my guide.



I also highly recommend the sermon. It is available here: Faith Presbyterian Church Reformed


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## JimmyH (May 2, 2013)

KMK said:


> JimmyH said:
> 
> 
> > *Last night I was reading volume 3 of The Works Of David Clarkson. A sermon he gave titled "Public Worship To Be Preferred Before Private." This sermon text, written 300 + years ago has had a profound effect on me.*
> ...


Thank you, as noted in my OP above, that very sermon precipitated my new found resolve to participate in corporate worship in a more meaningful way.


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## JimmyH (May 10, 2013)

I think it is a very positive testimony of my brothers and sisters on the PB, that of 271 views this thread has had, not one member suffers from the same reluctance to go to the alter with silent prayer on Sunday, or to pray audibly in Bible study/prayer meetings during the week.

I'm happy to say I am no longer reluctant to do either. I went up to the alter this past Sunday. I felt a bit self conscious walking up there, but once I hit on a knee I was fine, conferring with the Father in Spirit and truth. I've not had the opportunity to close our prayer meeting on Wednesday night but, if and when I do, I will do so with joy in my heart.


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## Tim (May 10, 2013)

JimmyH said:


> I think it is a very positive testimony of my brothers and sisters on the PB, that of 271 views this thread has had, not one member suffers from the same reluctance to go to the alter with silent prayer on Sunday



Brother, I am not even sure what is this practice that you are describing. Perhaps others feel the same way. My church does not have this practice. Is it done during the service (i.e., between the call to worship and the benediction)? Do people just sit in their pews and watch those who go forward? Personally, I would not wish to have this sort of practice in the worship service because at this point, the act of worship is no longer corporate because it is only done by a self-selected group of people who evidently know that they are being watched.

If I may be frank, I am not quite comfortable that you feel that you _must_ participate in this (or at least shouldn't be as reluctant). If I am misunderstanding, please forgive me. I am not trying to impose anything contrary to your conscience, but I still wonder if an undue pressure has been placed on you to participate in these necessarily conspicuous acts of worship.


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## JimmyH (May 10, 2013)

Thanks for the relpy Tim. Actually in discussing Presbyterian churches with a fellow Baptist recently, I told him I might go to a service to see what a reformed church was like. The first thing he said was 'they don't have altar calls.' This being a negative in his eyes.

The practice I'm referring to is not an altar call in the evangelistic sense. After announcements are done the congregation is instructed to take some time in prayer, and if the Spirit leads, to 'come to the altar'. A few individuals usually do. Reading John Owen's successor, David Clarkson's sermon, "Public Worship To Be Preferred Over Private," (works vol 3 BOT) led me to the conclusion that I needed to do this.

So getting no response here I did a search on PB for 'altar.' Most of the threads I sourced dealt with altar calls and in short order I found that reformed churches don't have 'altars.' So it is far more clear to me why more PB members cannot identify with my experience in this. I might add, that as far as evangelistic altar calls go, I am not sympathetic to them. Reverend D Martyn Lloyd-Jones, in one of his sermons, commented on them, that "a free and easy salvation is of little value." Anyway, never too old to learn. I have to ponder all of this.


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## irresistible_grace (May 11, 2013)

JimmyH said:


> Thanks for the relpy Tim. Actually in discussing Presbyterian churches with a fellow Baptist recently, I told him I might go to a service to see what a reformed church was like. The first thing he said was 'they don't have altar calls.' This being a negative in his eyes.
> 
> The practice I'm referring to is not an altar call in the evangelistic sense. After announcements are done the congregation is instructed to take some time in prayer, and if the Spirit leads, to 'come to the altar'. A few individuals usually do. Reading John Owen's successor, David Clarkson's sermon, "Public Worship To Be Preferred Over Private," (works vol 3 BOT) led me to the conclusion that I needed to do this.
> 
> So getting no response here I did a search on PB for 'altar.' Most of the threads I sourced dealt with altar calls and in short order I found that reformed churches don't have 'altars.' So it is far more clear to me why more PB members cannot identify with my experience in this. I might add, that as far as evangelistic altar calls go, I am not sympathetic to them. Reverend D Martyn Lloyd-Jones, in one of his sermons, commented on them, that "a free and easy salvation is of little value." Anyway, never too old to learn. I have to ponder all of this.



I know of the type of "alter call" in which you speak (I have only been Reformed 5 years) but it is NOT scriptural/biblical & had/has no place in the New Treatment Church. I agree with Tim's comments above. This is NOT a Baptist vs. Presbyterian issue. It is a Regulative Principle Worship issue. The "alter call" would have been completely foreign/alien to Owen & Clarkson so the fact that you credit David Clarkson for leading you to participate in this extra-biblical worship practice is somewhat ironic.


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## JimmyH (May 11, 2013)

irresistible_grace said:


> I know of the type of "alter call" in which you speak (I have only been Reformed 5 years) but it is NOT scriptural/biblical & had/has no place in the New Treatment Church. I agree with Tim's comments above. This is NOT a Baptist vs. Presbyterian issue. It is a Regulative Principle Worship issue. The "alter call" would have been completely foreign/alien to Owen & Clarkson *so the fact that you credit David Clarkson for leading you to participate in this extra-biblical worship practice is somewhat ironic.*



Yes, I see that now. I began in Assemblies Of God churches in 1986 but moved to Southern Baptist after a few months because I personally couldn't abide their "spiritual gifts". The AOG church also had the altar and practiced a similar worship service so upon going over to the Baptist denomination I thought it was de rigueur amongst all denominations. I have never had any other experience within church worship. I was quite surprised when I realized that all denominations don't practice the same worship methods. I'll have to re-read the aforementioned sermon. What Reverend Clarkson was referring to in 'congregational' versus private worship obviously couldn't have included an altar.


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## Mushroom (May 11, 2013)

I have no problem with public worship, in fact I greatly enjoy it, but as it seems you've discovered, what that means to Reformed believers can be quite different from what others practice. I was a charismatic in the distant past as well, so I have plenty of experience with what you describe, just never found its validity in scripture.

As for vocal corporate prayer, I usually decline. I'm not well-spoken in that setting anyway, and it distracts me to have thoughts creep in about what others may think of my words and whether I'm forming them for the benefit of ears other than God's. That's just me, though. Other folks seem to be able to take on that job quite well, and I defer to them.


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## irresistible_grace (May 11, 2013)

JimmyH said:


> irresistible_grace said:
> 
> 
> > I know of the type of "alter call" in which you speak (I have only been Reformed 5 years) but it is NOT scriptural/biblical & had/has no place in the New Treatment Church. I agree with Tim's comments above. This is NOT a Baptist vs. Presbyterian issue. It is a Regulative Principle Worship issue. The "alter call" would have been completely foreign/alien to Owen & Clarkson *so the fact that you credit David Clarkson for leading you to participate in this extra-biblical worship practice is somewhat ironic.*
> ...



For 20 years, I too was in the Assemblies of God. That is all my mother knows so when she has come to witness each of my covenant children's baptisms she thought we were odd (we only sing God's inspired Word, acapella, all the children present/participating in corporate worship, etc.).


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