# Gordon-Conwell Theological Seminary



## Backwoods Presbyterian

I received an acceptance letter from GCTS today in the mail for their Th.M program.


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## PresbyDane

Congratulations !!!!


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## DMcFadden

Great news! It is a fine institution.


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## Berean

Congrats!


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## Ivan

Cool.


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## Confessor

So right now are you moreor?


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## westminken

Congrats, very good school. Did you get accepted at PRTS or still in the application process?


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## Theognome

Woot! Do the Snoopy dance!

Theognome


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

westminken said:


> Congrats, very good school. Did you get accepted at PRTS or still in the application process?



I have been accepted at PRTS, GCTS, and Erskine. So I am weighing Puritan Reformed Seminary, Gordon-Conwell Seminary, and Erskine Seminary Th.M programs... 78-15-5-2... (PRTS - 78, ETS - 15, GCTS - 5, Cardboard Box - 2).

The cardboard box provides Fin Aid and also provides protection from the suns harmful rays.


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## Curt

Congrats. I got my D.Min there. Solid stuff.


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## nicnap

Congrats!


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## Classical Presbyterian

It's a fine institution. I bet their financial aid is better than most.


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## Sven

My vote is for Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary. Would it help persuade you to know that Dr. David Murray, from what I can tell, seems to be against republication?


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## SolaScriptura

Benjamin,

Congrats! The 3 schools you mentioned are each worthy in their own right. 

Personally, of those schools I'd most strongly consider Gordon-Conwell. The reason is that they have by far the biggest name. And name recognition matters in this world.


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## Jesus is my friend

Great stuff!,wonderful choices to pick from,it would also be wonderful to have you here in Massachusetts at Gordon-Conwell!


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## mvdm

With GC, I believe you'd have the opportunity to study under David Wells, which is a quite a plus.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

There are certainly plus or minuses in all three. Cost of living in South Hamilton, MA is a killer, PRTS is not accredited (if that matters), and Erskine is going through some "tough times". All three towns are nice and there are plenty of good Reformed churches. Joel Beeke, David Wells, and Hughes Oliphant Olds.


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## Montanablue

Stephen Um is at Gordon Conwell - I have a friend who attends his church in Boston and she occasionally has sent me mp3s of his sermons. Good stuff.


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## DMcFadden

It depends on what you want out of your ThM. If this is "finishing school" for someone who missed out on consistent confessional teaching during seminary, I would opt for PRTS. If you intend to stay in the pastoral ranks, the "non accredited" nature of PRTS is pretty irrelevant. It is known for its rigor and spiritual benefit. However, if you are looking for a stepping stone to another degree, Gordon would be excellent. They are certainly quite conservative and thoroughly academic (what Fuller started out to be). However, are they consistently Reformed enough for you? They have had, over the years, quite a few notable non-Reformed profs. Erskine has never been on my radar (my bad?) and the current controversy would not incline me to want to go there now for sure.

A friend of mine did his M.Div. at Gordon and said that Kline always complained that the level of his students at Westminster was a cut or two above those of his students at Gordon-Conwell. Don't know if that is still true in this day and age.

Gordon-Conwell would be a fine venue for your ThM. Pittsburgh, Gordon-Conwell . . . hmmmm . . . must be smart and really in to the eastern states.


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## rpeters

DMcFadden said:


> It depends on what you want out of your ThM. If this is "finishing school" for someone who missed out on consistent confessional teaching during seminary, I would opt for PRTS. If you intend to stay in the pastoral ranks, the "non accredited" nature of PRTS is pretty irrelevant. It is known for its rigor and spiritual benefit. However, if you are looking for a stepping stone to another degree, Gordon would be excellent. They are certainly quite conservative and thoroughly academic (what Fuller started out to be). However, are they consistently Reformed enough for you? They have had, over the years, quite a few notable non-Reformed profs. Erskine has never been on my radar (my bad?) and the current controversy would not incline me to want to go there now for sure.
> 
> A friend of mine did his M.Div. at Gordon and said that Kline always complained that the level of his students at Westminster was a cut or two above those of his students at Gordon-Conwell. Don't know if that is still true in this day and age.
> 
> Gordon-Conwell would be a fine venue for your ThM. Pittsburgh, Gordon-Conwell . . . hmmmm . . . must be smart and really in to the eastern states.


Why do you say if one was in te pastorate that a TH,M at PRTS would be a waste of time?


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## Cranmer1959

Gordon-Conwell is a mixed bag. It is Arminian and has had pentecostal presidential leadership and professors. 

My advice would be a school more grounded in Reformed theology such as Westminster or RTS.

I graduated from Asbury TS and it was a miserable experience. Arminians have no clue.

Charlie


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## GD

Cranmer1959 said:


> Gordon-Conwell is a mixed bag. It is Arminian and has had pentecostal presidential leadership and professors.



GCTS is not Arminian, it’s inter-denominational. If you don’t want a class with an Arminian prof, don’t sign up for it. That’s pretty easy, as Arminian theology is not the majority position among the faculty. My professors were all Presbyterians, save one Lutheran. 



Cranmer1959 said:


> I graduated from Asbury TS and it was a miserable experience. Arminians have no clue.



I got to know the character of the new President of Asbury while he was teaching at GCTS, and he wasn’t clueless. He was a gentleman was who capable of being charitable towards his brother in Christ whom he disagreed with theologically.

-----Added 6/15/2009 at 07:25:15 EST-----



Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> I received an acceptance letter from GCTS today in the mail for their Th.M program.



Congratulations! They're all three fine schools, although I'd recommend attending one of the accredited ones - you never know where God will use you down the road. Best wishes on your program, wherever you choose to attend.


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## Sven

SolaScriptura said:


> Benjamin,
> 
> Congrats! The 3 schools you mentioned are each worthy in their own right.
> 
> Personally, of those schools I'd most strongly consider Gordon-Conwell. The reason is that they have by far the biggest name. And name recognition matters in this world.



That is the lamest reason to go to a seminary. What matters most about seminary is fidelity to the Word of God and fidelity to the Reformed Confessions.

-----Added 6/15/2009 at 08:32:41 EST-----



DMcFadden said:


> It depends on what you want out of your ThM. If this is "finishing school" for someone who missed out on consistent confessional teaching during seminary, I would opt for PRTS. If you intend to stay in the pastoral ranks, the "non accredited" nature of PRTS is pretty irrelevant. It is known for its rigor and spiritual benefit. However, if you are looking for a stepping stone to another degree, Gordon would be excellent. They are certainly quite conservative and thoroughly academic (what Fuller started out to be). However, are they consistently Reformed enough for you? They have had, over the years, quite a few notable non-Reformed profs. Erskine has never been on my radar (my bad?) and the current controversy would not incline me to want to go there now for sure.
> 
> A friend of mine did his M.Div. at Gordon and said that Kline always complained that the level of his students at Westminster was a cut or two above those of his students at Gordon-Conwell. Don't know if that is still true in this day and age.
> 
> Gordon-Conwell would be a fine venue for your ThM. Pittsburgh, Gordon-Conwell . . . hmmmm . . . must be smart and really in to the eastern states.



I'm not sure what you meant by "non-accredited." PRTS is in fact accredited by ARTS. It passed accreditation the first time around, something rare for Seminaries and colleges.


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## cbryant

PRTS is not accredited by any agency recognized by the United States Department of Education. ARTS is an accrediting body but not one recognized by the US dept. of ed. My guess is that when most people think of accreditation they assume accreditation by a US dept of ed. recognized body.

Name recognition of the school you attend is important depending on what you want to do with your degree. If you want to go on to doctoral study anywhere accredited by the US dept. of ed. then name matters (to a certain extent). I know there are exceptions to the rule but this in my opinion in more often the case.


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## wallingj

Congrats!


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## greenbaggins

rpeters said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on what you want out of your ThM. If this is "finishing school" for someone who missed out on consistent confessional teaching during seminary, I would opt for PRTS. If you intend to stay in the pastoral ranks, the "non accredited" nature of PRTS is pretty irrelevant. It is known for its rigor and spiritual benefit. However, if you are looking for a stepping stone to another degree, Gordon would be excellent. They are certainly quite conservative and thoroughly academic (what Fuller started out to be). However, are they consistently Reformed enough for you? They have had, over the years, quite a few notable non-Reformed profs. Erskine has never been on my radar (my bad?) and the current controversy would not incline me to want to go there now for sure.
> 
> A friend of mine did his M.Div. at Gordon and said that Kline always complained that the level of his students at Westminster was a cut or two above those of his students at Gordon-Conwell. Don't know if that is still true in this day and age.
> 
> Gordon-Conwell would be a fine venue for your ThM. Pittsburgh, Gordon-Conwell . . . hmmmm . . . must be smart and really in to the eastern states.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say if one was in te pastorate that a TH,M at PRTS would be a waste of time?
Click to expand...


You misunderstood Dennis, I'm pretty sure. He was actually recommending PRTS if the pastorate was all Ben was concerned about (hence the fact of whether the school was accredited would not matter). The accreditation would only matter if Ben wanted to go further.


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## SolaScriptura

DMcFadden said:


> It depends on what you want out of your ThM. If this is "finishing school" for someone who missed out on consistent confessional teaching during seminary, I would opt for PRTS. If you intend to stay in the pastoral ranks, the "non accredited" nature of PRTS is pretty irrelevant. It is known for its rigor and spiritual benefit. However, if you are looking for a stepping stone to another degree, Gordon would be excellent. They are certainly quite conservative and thoroughly academic (what Fuller started out to be). However, are they consistently Reformed enough for you? They have had, over the years, quite a few notable non-Reformed profs. Erskine has never been on my radar (my bad?) and the current controversy would not incline me to want to go there now for sure.
> 
> A friend of mine did his M.Div. at Gordon and said that Kline always complained that the level of his students at Westminster was a cut or two above those of his students at Gordon-Conwell. Don't know if that is still true in this day and age.
> 
> Gordon-Conwell would be a fine venue for your ThM. Pittsburgh, Gordon-Conwell . . . hmmmm . . . must be smart and really in to the eastern states.



Exactly. Name recognition matters a lot if you're wanting to advance to a good PhD program.


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## Sven

Why do we hold different standards for seminaries than we do for Churches? When we talk about Reformed Churches, the important thing is fidelity to the Word of God, and to the Reformed Confessions. But we don't hold seminaries which train the pastors and teachers of our churches to the same standard? 

This isn't really about name recognition in order to get one's PhD. It's about the pride and arrogance that goes on in the seminaries and universities (and I think many churches, too) that won't recognize another seminary because they don't have just the right accreditation. The ThM program at Puritan rivals that of any other seminary in the US and Europe, they just aren't accredited from the right association.


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## Confessor

No one's saying it's _right_ that PRTS will not help towards further education.


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## DMcFadden

rpeters said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> 
> It depends on what you want out of your ThM. If this is "finishing school" for someone who missed out on consistent confessional teaching during seminary, I would opt for PRTS. If you intend to stay in the pastoral ranks, the "non accredited" nature of PRTS is pretty irrelevant. It is known for its rigor and spiritual benefit. However, if you are looking for a stepping stone to another degree, Gordon would be excellent. They are certainly quite conservative and thoroughly academic (what Fuller started out to be). However, are they consistently Reformed enough for you? They have had, over the years, quite a few notable non-Reformed profs. Erskine has never been on my radar (my bad?) and the current controversy would not incline me to want to go there now for sure.
> 
> A friend of mine did his M.Div. at Gordon and said that Kline always complained that the level of his students at Westminster was a cut or two above those of his students at Gordon-Conwell. Don't know if that is still true in this day and age.
> 
> Gordon-Conwell would be a fine venue for your ThM. Pittsburgh, Gordon-Conwell . . . hmmmm . . . must be smart and really in to the eastern states.
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you say if one was in te pastorate that a TH,M at PRTS would be a waste of time?
Click to expand...


Actually, Robert, that is the OPPOSITE of what I was saying. I have posted several times on the PB that if I were doing it all over again, I would select a school such as PRTS or Greenville, believing that a solid Reformed education that actually trained you to pastor was more important than a "cafeteria" seminary where you had an Arminian at 8:00 a.m., a Calvinist at 9:00 a.m., an Emergent at 11:00 a.m., and a Pentecostal at 2:00 p.m.

In Ben's case, he has often expressed concern that his Pittsburgh (mainline) eduction did not adequately ground him in Reformed theology. The solution, in my pea brain, would be to select PRTS where you could study with a giant like Beeke, over a cafeteria school like Gordon.

However, if he wants to go to Harvard, University of Chicago, Oxford, or some such place for a PhD, ARTS accreditation may not impress the secular gatekeepers. I frankly am a combination of intellectual elitist *and* anti-elitist in my own thinking. Having examined nearly 500 candidates for ordination during my ministry (serving for 28 straight years on my denominational committee on ordinations), I am singularly UNIMPRESSED with graduates of elite seminaries and would actually PREFER to see someone graduate from a solid (but unpretentious) school such as PRTS. However, "career trajectory" must be taken into account as well. If a person is using the ThM as a stepping stone to PhD work in a secular school, Gordon would be a more impressive venue for that purpose. If Ben is open to a PhD at a Reformed school, then PRTS will not hinder him in the least, particularly with a Pittsburgh M.Div.

Sorry to have miscommunicated.


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## rpeters

Dennis,
Thanks for clearing that up? It could not be you that communicated the misunderstanding, but me who mis understood. I am currently going through LAMP Theoloigical Seminary? Which will take 6 years to complete. Afterwards i was going to get a TH.M through PRTS? What do y9ou think of that?


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