# When do men violate the 2nd commandment (Voetius)?



## NaphtaliPress (Nov 25, 2019)

"Whenever one wills to honour and serve (God) by means of images, or whenever one wills to worship him in such a manner as directly conflicts with God’s word or that is apart from God’s word, founded on the institutions of man, or on our own whims and fancies, as takes place under that of the papacy by means of its ceremonies and human traditions." 

_Catechisatie over den Heidelbergschen Catechismus : naar Poudroyen's editie van 1662 op nieuw uitgegeven, bij ons publiek ingeleid, en met enkele aanteekeningen voorzien_ (1641; Rotterdam: Gebroeders Huge, 1891). No idea the page number; why has so little of Voetius been translated? The above comes from here.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 25, 2019)

In the endnote to the above-linked article, it says that the quotation comes from pp 783, 797.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 25, 2019)

Edit: Given the pagination, it appears to come from the second volume of Abraham Kuyper's edition of the commentary (available on archive.org). I have no knowledge of Dutch, but, at a guess, the quote appears to come from the bottom of page 783.

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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 25, 2019)

That's a big commentary.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 25, 2019)

NaphtaliPress said:


> That's a big commentary.



I am just after moaning (as I often do) that so little by Voetius is available in English, but, given the length of this work, the lack of material is perhaps understandable.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 25, 2019)

In case the Puritan Board ever crashes and all the material is lost, I have made a blog post out of the above extract. All joking aside, anything translated by Voetius needs to be backed up in case it is ever lost.

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## Tom Hart (Nov 25, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Edit: Given the pagination, it appears to come from the second volume of Abraham Kuyper's edition of the commentary (available on archive.org). I have no knowledge of Dutch, but, at a guess, the quote appears to come from the bottom of page 783.


That is correct.

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## Tom Hart (Nov 25, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> In case the Puritan Board ever crashes and all the material is lost, I have made a blog post out of the above extract. All joking aside, anything translated by Voetius needs to be backed up in case it is ever lost.


All this online stuff (your blog posts included) needs to be printed out and kept in underground vaults.

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## Seeking_Thy_Kingdom (Nov 25, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Edit: Given the pagination, it appears to come from the second volume of Abraham Kuyper's edition of the commentary (available on archive.org). I have no knowledge of Dutch, but, at a guess, the quote appears to come from the bottom of page 783.


This is correct.

As a side note, I have had his catechism saved for a while and hope to one day translate and have it published. The catechism is not that large though, about 600 pages and the link provided starts for some reason at page 625. I am now curious as to what else is in the Kuiper volume....

Edit: For those of you interested, this is the original “Catechism Against the Catechism of the Remonstrants”
https://books.google.com/books?id=cy-0EpSun0QC&printsec=frontcover#v=onepage&q&f=false

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## earl40 (Nov 25, 2019)

Take away the word "papacy" and replace it with "supposed protestant churches".


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## Phil D. (Nov 25, 2019)

Seeking_Thy_Kingdom said:


> the link provided starts for some reason at page 625.


 That's volume 2. Here is volume 1.

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## Seeking_Thy_Kingdom (Nov 25, 2019)

Phil D. said:


> That's volume 2. Here is volume 1.


That’s perfect, thank you.

Very odd that it cuts off mid sentence, but sure enough that is the first half of the catechism.


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## Regi Addictissimus (Nov 25, 2019)

NaphtaliPress said:


> "Whenever one wills to honour and serve (God) by means of images, or whenever one wills to worship him in such a manner as directly conflicts with God’s word or that is apart from God’s word, founded on the institutions of man, or on our own whims and fancies, as takes place under that of the papacy by means of its ceremonies and human traditions."
> 
> _Catechisatie over den Heidelbergschen Catechismus : naar Poudroyen's editie van 1662 op nieuw uitgegeven, bij ons publiek ingeleid, en met enkele aanteekeningen voorzien_ (1641; Rotterdam: Gebroeders Huge, 1891). No idea the page number; why has so little of Voetius been translated? The above comes from here.



One of the great tragedies of our day is that Voetius remains locked away from so many. I have become quite enthralled by Voetius these past few months while researching and writing on his life. I have been in discussions with individuals in my network about translating him. I know of at least two high caliber Latinists that are very much interested. This has become a mission that I won't easily give up.

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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 25, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> One of the great tragedies of our day is that Voetius remains locked away from so many. I have become quite enthralled by Voetius these past few months while researching and writing on his life. I have been in discussions with individuals in my network about translating him. I know of at least two high caliber Latinists that are very much interested. This has become a mission that I won't easily give up.


If this is not something for RHB I would love to do something like this in the NPSE large volume formate series.

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## Charles Johnson (Nov 25, 2019)

For what it's worth, as historically and theologically important as Voetius is, his work tends to read in a cold and scholastic manner compared to his contemporaries. For example, in the Voetius-Hoornbeek disputation "on spiritual desertion", Voetius gives a set of scholastic theses on the topic of spiritual desertion, while Hoornbeek gives a warm and pastoral discussion of comforting those experiencing spiritual desertion. I would certainly like more of Voetius to be translated, but more of Hoornbeek or other of his Utrecht disciples would probably actually be more helpful in promoting reformed piety.


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## Regi Addictissimus (Nov 25, 2019)

Charles Johnson said:


> For what it's worth, as historically and theologically important as Voetius is, his work tends to read in a cold and scholastic manner compared to his contemporaries. For example, in the Voetius-Hoornbeek disputation "on spiritual desertion", Voetius gives a set of scholastic theses on the topic of spiritual desertion, while Hoornbeek gives a warm and pastoral discussion of comforting those experiencing spiritual desertion. I would certainly like more of Voetius to be translated, but more of Hoornbeek or other of his Utrecht disciples would probably actually be more helpful in promoting reformed piety.


Have you read anything by Voetius outside of his treatise on spiritual desertion?


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## Charles Johnson (Nov 25, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Have you read anything by Voetius outside of Spiritual Desertion?


I've read bits and pieces of his Latin works. Nothing extensive.


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## Seeking_Thy_Kingdom (Nov 26, 2019)

Charles Johnson said:


> For what it's worth, as historically and theologically important as Voetius is, his work tends to read in a cold and scholastic manner compared to his contemporaries. For example, in the Voetius-Hoornbeek disputation "on spiritual desertion", Voetius gives a set of scholastic theses on the topic of spiritual desertion, while Hoornbeek gives a warm and pastoral discussion of comforting those experiencing spiritual desertion. I would certainly like more of Voetius to be translated, but more of Hoornbeek or other of his Utrecht disciples would probably actually be more helpful in promoting reformed piety.


I have looked into Hoorenbeek before and sadly there is not much in Dutch, only one title on the usefulness of catechisms, the rest is all in Latin and greatly ignored like Voetius. 
With everything that I would like to translate from Dutch that one is not close to the top. Next to the Voetius catechism I would love to do a book on the history of the Sabbath by Jacobus Koelman, sermons by Brakel and others.... the list goes on and on. 
https://archive.org/details/ned-kbn-all-00009463-001/page/n13


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## smalltown_puritan (Nov 26, 2019)

earl40 said:


> Take away the word "papacy" and replace it with "supposed protestant churches".



A sobering, yet true reality.

Reactions: Amen 1


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