# Faith/Hope in the Final State



## hammondjones (Jul 10, 2014)

*Vos*, in a footnote in The Pauline Eschatology (pg. 29 of the P&R ed.), suggests that faith and hope are not provisional and temporary, and that both persist in the final state. 

Says he, regarding faith:


> The presupposition might be that, side by side with the promises fulfilled, and as such requiring no further functioning of faith, there will always be elements in the apprehension and possession of God which must remain inaccessible except through faith. God, as God, by his own Being, under all circumstances, must to a large extent remain apprehensible by faith alone.



and regarding hope:


> Hope ordinarily has its very terminus and object in the final state as such, and would accordingly with the arrival of the latter seem to supercede itself. Hence the word becomes suggestive of *still ulterior vistas of realization within the final state.*




*Jonathan Edwards*, writing on increasing eternal joy in The End for Which God Created the World, says that:


> I suppose it will not be denied by any, that God, in glorifying the saints in heaven with eternal felicity, aims to satisfy his infinite grace or benevolence, by the bestowment of a good [which is] infinitely valuable, because eternal: and yet *there never will come the moment, when it can be said, that now this infinitely valuable good has been actually bestowed*



Now, I normally hear people say that only love abides forever, and that faith will not be a part of life then, since we will know even as we are known. And that since we will see him face to face, hope is also excluded, since, as Paul says, "who hopes for what he sees?"

So, then...
1. Do faith and hope have a place in the eternal state?
2. If not, can we still talk about increasing joy/knowledge of God/glory in heaven without them?


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## earl40 (Jul 10, 2014)

hammondjones said:


> 1. Do faith and hope have a place in the eternal state?
> 2. If not, can we still talk about increasing joy/knowledge of God/glory in heaven without them?




1. yes
2. no

We will have faith in heaven in whatever our Lord has in store for us the "next day" or the next moment in eternity which will include an ever increasing joy/knowledge of the infinite God.


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## whirlingmerc (Jul 10, 2014)

Col 1:5 "...For the hope which is laid up for you in Heaven, of which you heard..."

Going forward, I suppose one hope is that God is the same even in eternity. Not sure that Islam shares that hope.


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## Peairtach (Jul 10, 2014)

Faith and hope may be there in a sense, but it is clear from Scripture that they will be quite changed in quality, whereas love will only be perfected


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jul 12, 2014)

I think we should make distinctions between the hope and faith we exercise now, while in "this present evil world" (Gal 1:4), beset by world, flesh, and devil, and what Vos refers to in the eternal state. Here, we seek – against the grain, as it were – to embrace that which we cannot see or feel, ". . . it being the nature of true faith to make the thing it closes with spiritually present to the soul." (Alexander Nisbet, _Commentary on 1st & 2nd Peter, _Banner of Truth, p. 25.) It is sometimes a struggle to do this.

But in eternity it shall be a different matter, for, completely apart from from faith as we term it now, that which we desire shall be not only spiritually but _physically_ present to us, that being the Lord our God and the Lamb, who shall be there wiping away any tears we bring with us from great tribulation here (Rev 21:3,4).

I suppose where faith and hope could be said to enter there is that we will have an eternity ahead of us – lives that shall never, never end – and that could be a frightening thing given our limited minds and vision at this point, and even upon entrance into the final state, but we _*trust Him*_ that it shall ever be well with us, and we also have a hope of sorts that we shall – even in our essential emptiness – look forward to His faithful and unfailing love, along with the ever-fresh manifestations of His glory and infinite majesty and dignity, so that we shall never fear desolation any more. I would prefer the word _*trust*_ to subsume the terms faith and hope, although _*expectation*_ of holy pleasures at His right hand for evermore (Ps 16:11) is akin to hope, yet it is assured and not unseen, for we lay eyes on Him, and know Him who is true. His words in Scripture shall never fail, as He said, "Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away" (Matt 24:35).


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