# Any good sites for translating Latin?



## SolaScriptura (Nov 4, 2005)

Do any of you Latin gurus know of a website that is helpful for translating Latin?

What does this mean:

Ipsa est enim fides, quae orando impetrat quod lex imperat.


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## Saiph (Nov 4, 2005)

herself /themselves he is for faith/trust/fidelity/promise/guarantee who/which/that pray/plead/speak/beg/entreat achieve/effect/get/procure/secure which/that law order/command [w dat] 


Fred is very good at this. What is the context of this sentance ? I gave up on latin because I could not find anyone to study wth.


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## DTK (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> Do any of you Latin gurus know of a website that is helpful for translating Latin?
> 
> What does this mean:
> ...


There is an excellent Latin program you can download for translating purposes for free at http://users.erols.com/whitaker/words.htm

I think the program is named words.exe.

DTK


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 4, 2005)

It's cited in a PhD dissertation. The author is citing from Augustine's On Grace and Free Will. This particular sentence is quoted in support of the author's claim that for Augustine, "Faith and prayer, both gifts of grace, are the means by which man is able to secure and perform what the law of God requires."


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## fredtgreco (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> Do any of you Latin gurus know of a website that is helpful for translating Latin?
> 
> What does this mean:
> ...



"This itself is faith, which seeks by prayer what the Law commands."

Here is a good site with Latin quotes and mottos (often what is needed):
http://www.yuni.com/library/latin.html

A Latin Dictionary and Grammar aid online:
http://www.nd.edu/~archives/latgramm.htm

A java based Latin dictionary:http://www.sunsite.ubc.ca/LatinDictionary/index.html

And of course, there is always 20 years of study!


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## fredtgreco (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> herself /themselves he is for faith/trust/fidelity/promise/guarantee who/which/that pray/plead/speak/beg/entreat achieve/effect/get/procure/secure which/that law order/command [w dat]
> 
> 
> Fred is very good at this. What is the context of this sentance ? I gave up on latin because I could not find anyone to study wth.



Mark,

Not that you need to do Latin, but you might want to check with a local homeschooling/classical schooling group. There might be some teens that are doing it.

It is also possible that the local college has beginning latin students.


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## Saiph (Nov 4, 2005)

Rom 9:30 What shall we say, then? That Gentiles who did not pursue righteousness have attained it, that is, a righteousness that is by faith; 
Rom 9:31 but that Israel who pursued a law that would lead to righteousness did not succeed in reaching that law. 
Rom 9:32 Why? *Because they did not pursue it by faith, but as if it were based on works.* 

For Augustine, man's obedience is the outworking of _fides caritas formata_ (faith formed by charity). (Gal. 5:6) He made justification coincide with sanctification.


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## DTK (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> 
> Ipsa est enim fides, quae orando impetrat quod lex imperat.



I looked it up in the _NPNF1_ (Eerdmans) series. The translation given there is as follows...

*Augustine (354-430):* For this is faith itself, which obtains by prayer what the law commands. NPNF1: Vol. V, A Treatise on Grace and Freewill, Chapter 32 [Xvi].

DTK


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## Saiph (Nov 4, 2005)

Fred thanks for the advice. I would love to find someone that wants to study it with me. Nobody seems that iterested in Latin these days.


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## R. Scott Clark (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> Do any of you Latin gurus know of a website that is helpful for translating Latin?
> 
> What does this mean:
> ...



I see the NPF transl. has been posted. That's fine.

Using electronic resources to help translate texts is okay, but it is no substitute for learning the language. 

A language is not math. It's not a matter of plugging in variables into a calculator and getting a result. 

There are too many variables (especially in Latin where context is even more important in determining meaning than in Greek) and intangibles (e.g., a "feel" for how an author writes and thinks) in translating to reduce it to a mechanical operation.

The best way to do it is to learn Latin first, then Greek. Once one has learned how an inflected language (a language that uses cases) works, then its not hard to move from the one to the other. 

We really need learned folk in our churches. Ignorance is not our friend. 

rsc


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## Saiph (Nov 4, 2005)

I have the "Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin" by John Collins. But, there are no answers to the excercises so I can check my work.

Is Wheelock's good enough ?


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## fredtgreco (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> I have the "Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin" by John Collins. But, there are no answers to the excercises so I can check my work.
> 
> Is Wheelock's good enough ?



Wheelock is better.

Mark, go here to find a plethora of resources:

http://www.textkit.com/


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## doulosChristou (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> 
> We really need learned folk in our churches. Ignorance is not our friend.
> 
> rsc


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## Bladestunner316 (Nov 4, 2005)




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## R. Scott Clark (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> I have the "Primer of Ecclesiastical Latin" by John Collins. But, there are no answers to the excercises so I can check my work.
> 
> Is Wheelock's good enough ?



Collins is good, though he assumes more knowledge than he should have. Doubtless he was used to well-taught students with RC educations. He also assumes a teacher to correct the exercises (I just finished grading exams on ch's 8-10 for some students).

Wheelock is more designed to teach classical latin. Latin is fundamentally Latin (nominative is subject and accusative object) but the vocabulary and syntax differs. Wheelock will prepare the reader to read Caesar (Gallic Wars) and eventually Cicero etc. The vocab is more martial and secular. Collins is built around the vocabulary of the church and the vulgate. Nunn's grammar of eccl. latin is also helpful, but it is not designed to teach beginners. 

The thing to do is to learn the vocabulary and the forms (declensions and conjugations) and find someone to help you with the exercises...or enroll in a school with a kind-hearted prof who will help you learn Latin --yes, I know, at FULLER! 

rsc


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## fredtgreco (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Saiph_
> ...



My view of Latin, after having done it for a while now (since '84) is the same as my view of Greek. If you are going to learn Latin, learn the most complex and fullest form - Classical. Ecclesiastical Latin is basically truncated Classical Latin, with stunted grammar. Much the same can be said of Koine Greek (vis-a-vis Classical Greek). That doesn't mean that Ecclesiastical Latin or Koine Greek are bad - far from it! But it does mean that if you learn Classical Greek, Koine is a snap, but the obverse will be very challenging. Same for Latin.

The easiest part of a language (in my opinion) is vocabulary. You can build it up as you read.


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