# Early date for Revelation and Timothy at Ephesus



## NaphtaliPress (May 28, 2022)

I've asked this before and failed to get a response so putting this in it's own thread. How does the early date view that must have the book of Revelation written before 70 AD deal with the the requirement that Ephesus and Timothy the pastor should have fallen into the condition of that church in just a few years or contemporaneous with 2 Timothy? And why no mention of Timothy? Timothy is said to have died in 97 AD or just after the late date for Revelation. 2 Timothy is dated to about 64-65 and the latter for an early date in enough time to circulate before March 70AD. The faults at Ephesus seem to be of a mature doctrinally sound church that has grown cold; is that the work of a few years or something that takes decades? Ephesus was founded circa 51 AD and Paul had direct contact as late as about 57 AD going by generally received dating. So I suppose a young 7 year oldish church planted by the apostle that had many elders could have matured and grown cold in less than ten years? Maybe it simply isn't seen as an issue. I don't have convinced views. I've spent three years editing Durham on Revelation so know at least an older historicist early date take, and I've heard preaching from a late date preterist point of view through the whole book several years back at my church, and our, hopefully, new pastor come September is more amil so likely will get that point of view at some point, D.V.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## Eyedoc84 (May 28, 2022)

Chris, this doesn’t answer your question, but one of biggest reasons I reject an early date for Revelation is this sort of inconsistency. Early date arguments require Paul and John to be essentially contemporaneous in their ministries to the Asia Minor churches, particularly for those proponents who date Revelation before 2 Timothy. Yet Paul and John _never_ mention each other (in that context). Given Paul’s penchant for naming names, that’s a big alert for me. I think the internal evidence points to John’s ministry being to these churches many years later

Reactions: Like 2


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## Sovereign Grace (Jun 2, 2022)

Eyedoc84 said:


> Chris, this doesn’t answer your question, but one of biggest reasons I reject an early date for Revelation is this sort of inconsistency. Early date arguments require Paul and John to be essentially contemporaneous in their ministries to the Asia Minor churches, particularly for those proponents who date Revelation before 2 Timothy. Yet Paul and John _never_ mention each other (in that context). Given Paul’s penchant for naming names, that’s a big alert for me. I think the internal evidence points to John’s ministry being to these churches many years later


Seeing that I agree with the early date writing of Revelation, do we have recorded evidence where the church suffered persecution under Domitian that would fit with what John wrote in Revelation? I've heard that Domitian's persecution of the church was months and nothing like Nero's.


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