# Bill Hybels Confession



## shackleton (Nov 5, 2007)

The Way of the Master Radio

Go down to "Biggest Story of the Year" and click play. 
He confesses that "Seeker" driven mentality does not work.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 5, 2007)

That's News?


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 5, 2007)

What irks me about this is how light he is in presenting this idea and then he completely misses the point.

He notes that they are investing all their resources and energy in "seekers" and little in those in the pew but then the goal of his ministry for those that don't "feel fed" is to make them "self-feeders". He then plans to come up with a "customized personal growth plan" just like you get from a personal trainer at a gym. :barf:

I'm sick of this.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 5, 2007)

Pyromaniacs: Still Not Clear on the Concept

Willow Creek Repents? | Out of Ur | Following God's Call in a New World | Conversations hosted by the editors of Leadership journal

It's news if real change happens. The multi-million dollar project of failed work. There is a rule book somewhere......

Remember 
(2Ti 3:16) All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

(2Ti 3:17) That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 5, 2007)

I was being facetious. The audio doesn't actually have Bill repudiating the seeker sensitive approach. All he is doing is creating a program to have the seeker graduate to "self-help" where they can feed themselves.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 5, 2007)

Thar ya go usin those wurds ya all luked up in the dictionary agin. 

facetious

–adjective
1.	not meant to be taken seriously or literally: a facetious remark.
2.	amusing; humorous.
3.	lacking serious intent; concerned with something nonessential, amusing, or frivolous: a facetious person.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 5, 2007)

Just a few quotes from the Leadership Blog.



> Speaking at the Leadership Summit, Hybels summarized the findings this way:
> 
> Some of the stuff that we have put millions of dollars into thinking it would really help our people grow and develop spiritually, when the data actually came back it wasn’t helping people that much. Other things that we didn’t put that much money into and didn’t put much staff against is stuff our people are crying out for.





> Hybels confesses:
> 
> We made a mistake. What we should have done when people crossed the line of faith and become Christians, we should have started telling people and teaching people that they have to take responsibility to become ‘self feeders.’ We should have gotten people, taught people, how to read their bible between service, how to do the spiritual practices much more aggressively on their own.



I personally think that the RPW and discipleship would have done a good job. And the Millions could have been spent more wisely. But then, would they have gotten the millions?


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## Calvibaptist (Nov 5, 2007)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Just a few quotes from the Leadership Blog.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



This is what happens when salvation is seen as a big one-time experience and then what you really need is good follow-up rather than seeing our responsibility as making disciples through the gospel.


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## Pergamum (Nov 5, 2007)

One good thing about all of this: 

He did a qualitative study, which seems to mean that he is evaluating the long term results of his ministry. He is searching out the fruits if his ministry.


Many calvinist folks I know never do any such sort of crtique or evaluation of their methods.

We say "Just preach the Gospel" but some folks I know have their church signs falling apart out front. OR they have no phone book, web or newspaper presence. They do a poor job of communicating their message and getting it out and then blame the sovereignty of God for their few numbers.

The Hybels-types fall of one edge and we often fall off the other...

SUMMARY:



We should not be idle in the means, nor should we make an idol out of the means.




A follow up question: What is the role of such self-evaluation and long term studies in our churches. HOw should we be checking on people's spiritual progress in our churches and how our methodology can effect this? What is the role of methodology? WHen should we change our methods? How should we check spiritual maturity or progress? IF the Lord matures his people through his church, then how do we glorify God by doing this as excellently as possible?


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## shackleton (Nov 6, 2007)

Way Of The Master Radio

Go down to "Podcast hour 2" forward to about 36 minutes. He reviews Mac Arthurs take on this. His comments are good as well. Non-Christians really like Hybels church, Christians, not so much. Don't carry your bible, it offends non-Christians. Nothing in the church should reflect a church because it will offend "seekers."


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## caddy (Nov 6, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> What irks me about this is how light he is in presenting this idea and then he completely misses the point.
> 
> He notes that they are investing all their resources and energy in "seekers" and little in those in the pew but then the goal of his ministry for those that don't "feel fed" is to make them "self-feeders". He then plans to come up with a "customized personal growth plan" just like you get from a personal trainer at a gym. :barf:
> 
> I'm sick of this.


 
I think you just gave a description of my former church!


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## JBaldwin (Nov 6, 2007)

> I personally think that the RPW and discipleship would have done a good job. And the Millions could have been spent more wisely. But then, would they have gotten the millions?



I would agree that discipleship would have done a good job, but how does the RPW do anything for growth in Christ? After years of trying programs, methods and church hopping looking for an answer to my spiritual hunger, I found that learning of Christ is the answer. Worship according the Scriptures is helpful and encouraging, but the fact is, it's not the Sunday morning worship service or the RPW that has been the answer for me. It's the in-depth Bible study and prayer time we have on Sunday nights where we focus on learning of Christ in His Word that has been the greatest discipleship training for me. The answer is Jesus Christ, not any program, not any worship style, not any scheme.


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## JBaldwin (Nov 6, 2007)

Let me add, for clarification. I DO believe that worship should be in line with the Scriptures.


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