# Arbitrary?



## fivepointcalvinist (May 27, 2006)

arbitrary - determined by chance, whim, or impulse, and not by necessity, reason, or principle

my question is, is anything in this life really considered arbitrary? if there is, does this deny a causal relationship to our actions? does capriciousness deny Gods sovereignty?

thoughts?


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## Vytautas (Jun 2, 2006)

It depends in which point of view you assume. For instance, in God´s perspective, he from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass. In this view there is no chance or fate, in the mechanical sense. We also have this view in mind when we reflect the mind of the Holy One. Also from our point of view, things seem that the happen by random chance such as the roll of the dice or flip of the coin because they are dependent on the mechanics of how they are thrown, their weight, and shape. And these things contain many variables within executed in space and time so that they imply something unpredictable. This situation is similar as metaphysical primacy such that to God, things are subjective, but to us they are objective because we cannot manipulate them with thoughts and wishes, but God can freely control of the world with the use of his will.


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## fivepointcalvinist (Jun 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Vytautas_
> It depends in which point of view you assume. For instance, in God´s perspective, he from all eternity did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass. In this view there is no chance or fate, in the mechanical sense. We also have this view in mind when we reflect the mind of the Holy One. Also from our point of view, things seem that the happen by random chance such as the roll of the dice or flip of the coin because they are dependent on the mechanics of how they are thrown, their weight, and shape. And these things contain many variables within executed in space and time so that they imply something unpredictable. This situation is similar as metaphysical primacy such that to God, things are subjective, but to us they are objective because we cannot manipulate them with thoughts and wishes, but God can freely control of the world with the use of his will.



how does that make something or anything arbitrary? because God has done something of His own will does not imply that it is done without reason or cause. the statement "It depends in which point of view you assume" implies the possibility of capriciousness. describe to me something you can logically ascribe the attribute of arbitrariness to.


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## Vytautas (Jun 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist_
> how does that make something or anything arbitrary? because God has done something of His own will does not imply that it is done without reason or cause. the statement "It depends in which point of view you assume" implies the possibility of capriciousness. describe to me something you can logically ascribe the attribute of arbitrariness to.



Coin flipping or dice rolling is somewhat arbitrary because you cannot predict every number the dice rolls or the way the coin ends up, but in another way it is predictable in the long run because each possibility as an equal chance of happening assuming the dice or coin is not loaded. Another example is weather which seems arbitrary to us because you cannot use differential equations to get an exact answer with this type of phenomenon although there are numerical methods that are not exact but do help.


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## fivepointcalvinist (Jun 2, 2006)

rich, the predictability of an event does not deny causation or reason. let me quote an email correspondance i had with someone regarding this to shed some light on why i think this important:




> nothing in this world can happen without a cause or reason, even the flip of a coin. therefore nothing can truly be arbitrary. we may use this as an idiom, but nothing can happen apart from causal factors. the reason this is important is because if something can happen apart from causal persuasions, whos to say the universe and our beginning is not one of them, thus denying the existence of God and supporting scientific assertions such as "chaos" theory.


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## Vytautas (Jun 2, 2006)

If everything has a specific cause, then there is an explanation for every event. Since we do not have information on everything that has a specific cause, then it would seem that arbitrariness in possible. However, we have a general cause for every event which is God´s choice and his own glory. But, the specifics are lacking for every future event because it is hard to predict the future with accuracy. So things like coins flipping to seem to us random even though we do say that they are governed by Providence which translate into physical laws. This means that the lack of knowledge that we have for these things leave us with beliefs about arbitrariness. This is an argument from ignorance so that it is also likely that there are causes, but unknown right now.


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