# Who was Rushdoony?



## etexas (Dec 9, 2007)

I did a Wiki, but sometime Wiki gives you a lot, sometimes it leaves you wanting more, the latter was true in this case, other than the basics I got from Wiki, why and how is he so important to so many Reformed Christians, I know he was strong for the Home-Schooling and all that, but what other factors make him important? Grace and Peace.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 9, 2007)

Wiki is useful on rare occasions but usually borders on being an old joke that is no longer funny. The problem with Rushdoony threads is that most Reformed people momentarily pretend to be "all or nothing" guys. Meaning, well, if Rush is wrong on one thing, then he is a wrong teacher. That sort of thinking, however, never works. 

The best discussion of Rushdoony comes from Professor John Frame. He avoids the typical Reformed anathemas and hero-worship. 
Forward to <i>A Comprehensive Faith</i>

Rushdoony was a gigantic, systematic thinker. He wrote over 50 books, inspired the modern home-school, Christian school movement (here is the biggest irony: many Reformed folk who hate Rushdoony are christian-schooling their kids and often use the same arguments he did). He read 6 books a week for 50 years. He has over 1500 lectures online at The Chalcedon Foundation - Faith for All of Life . You can sample about 20 free ones. The Chalcedon Foundation - Faith for All of Life

Now, since Rushdoony is a systematic thinker who literally addressed all areas of life: education, law, philosophy, theology, sociology, literature, he is going to make some mistakes. So what? We are big kids and can read people with whom we disagree. I believe that when people start reading Rushdoony, they note his historical insight and new worlds are opened up to them.

And people will often point out, "He said Calvin's thought was heretical." No, he didn't. He said one tiny aspect of one subdivision of one division of Calvin's thought was phrased just like several heretical anabaptists. And Rushdoony continually read Calvin's Institutes for 50 years (which is more than anyone else on this board).


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## RamistThomist (Dec 9, 2007)

Here is Mark Rushdoony's eulogy on his father:



> I remember when my father was not held in high esteem. Some thought he was a rogue who confused a simplistic spiritual message with this big picture and the responsibility it placed on men. *But in the 1970s when Christians were being imprisoned and children were being removed from homes and churches were being padlocked for educating children in Christian and home schools, many across the country saw a distinguished, white-haired man they had never met appear in courtrooms to act as an expert witness in their defense. My father testified in dozens of these cases, and slowly the tide turned as victory after victory was won for religious liberty.* People then saw my father in a new light. He helped them, yet made them re-examine their own beliefs. He expressed a faith that helped them take a stand based on the Word of God. Once my father was ridiculed on the witness stand by a prosecutor who sought to discredit his testimony. The prosecutor wanted my father to appear ignorant and prejudiced by saying he did not believe in evolution just because the Bible taught creation in six days. When the prosecutor cynically asked him why he did not believe in the theory of evolution, my father incredulously replied that he did not have that much faith. Many began to see that my father was a man who could teach them something about taking a stand for the Faith.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 9, 2007)

you can also go to ITunes and type in "Rushdoony" in the search engine and get the Rushdoony podcast.


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## etexas (Dec 9, 2007)

Is he still alive? NEVERMIND......I saw the eulogy from his son! So I guess he munched the dirt-sandwich!


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## 3John2 (Dec 9, 2007)

My pastor was constantly quoting Rushdoony & didn't even know who he was. I thought his name was Rush Dooney you know like Rush Limbaugh!! Anyways I later started reading him & wow!!! I'm currently going through "Salvation & Godly Rule" & I'm very impressed by the man. I'm also impressed he actually read more books than me per week. Very humblingThanks to Spear Dane here I'm also into listening to his MP3's on the site. So much good info. Like he said you might not agree 100% with the man, but I dont' know anyone who agrees 100% with ANYONE , but there is no denying he was a giant among us. I"m currently going through his History of the US lectures which are great.


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## etexas (Dec 9, 2007)

3John2 said:


> My pastor was constantly quoting Rushdoony & didn't even know who he was. I thought his name was Rush Dooney you know like Rush Limbaugh!! Anyways I later started reading him & wow!!! I'm currently going through "Salvation & Godly Rule" & I'm very impressed by the man. I'm also impressed he actually read more books than me per week. Very humblingThanks to Spear Dane here I'm also into listening to his MP3's on the site. So much good info. Like he said you might not agree 100% with the man, but I dont' know anyone who agrees 100% with ANYONE , but there is no denying he was a giant among us. I"m currently going through his History of the US lectures which are great.


Thank you! I am glad I am not the only one who never heard of him He SHOULD have changed his name to Rush Dooney! That has a nice "ring" to it! Kidding aside I DO want to hear some of his stuff!


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## RamistThomist (Dec 9, 2007)

I would definitely start with listening to the free audio i linked to. As to reading, I wouldn't start wtih Institutes of Biblical Law. That's way too much. I would probably start with something like _Foundations of Social Order_ or _Intellectual Schizophrenia_. My personal favorite is _Politics of Guilt and Pity_


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## Thomas2007 (Dec 9, 2007)

etexas said:


> Is he still alive? NEVERMIND......I saw the eulogy from his son! So I guess he munched the dirt-sandwich!



Ouch, I posted a response to your question in the other thread where you asked you Rushdoony was. Your phraseology here isn't good, I perceive it as being disrespectful, although I doubt you intended it that way.
Please consider, though, of avoiding slang of this nature as poor communications corrupt good manners.

Cordially,

Thomas


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## etexas (Dec 9, 2007)

Thomas2007 said:


> etexas said:
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> > Is he still alive? NEVERMIND......I saw the eulogy from his son! So I guess he munched the dirt-sandwich!
> ...


AS you people know I have an odd sense of humor! that was ONLY a joke!


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 9, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> I would definitely start with listening to the free audio i linked to. As to reading, I wouldn't start wtih Institutes of Biblical Law. That's way too much. I would probably start with something like _Foundations of Social Order_ or _Intellectual Schizophrenia_. My personal favorite is _Politics of Guilt and Pity_




Well, I did start with IBL, though I usually make mistakes like that; though you could start by reading a few pages of it at a time - maybe only at weekends. 

Sadly, I think Rush's other books take a back seat to IBL, and this is not always a good thing. The reason I say that is because he made some rash statements in that volume, which he did not make in other books, and so those with an axe to grind pick up on this. For instance, his off-the-cuff comments that Calvin (taken out of context) was talking "heretical nonsense", and that the WCF 19:4 (again taken out of context) was talking "nonsense", gave the enemies of Theonomy ammunition. Note however, that Rush said these things BEFORE the likes of Martin Foulner, Chris Strevel, James Jordan, Ken Gentry and Gary North did their historical research. Also, it is sad that the likes of Carl Trueman has picked up on his comments about the holocaust in IBL, in order to discredit his credibility as a historian. Yet you would think that if you were going to prove what a poor historian he was, you would begin by looking at his books on history, not a passing comment in a book about Biblical law. 

So read IBL, but don't neglect his other stuff. So far, I would agree with Jacob that _Politics of Guilt and Pity_ is the best Rushdoony book I have read - though that may change.


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## Thomas2007 (Dec 9, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> I would definitely start with listening to the free audio i linked to. As to reading, I wouldn't start wtih Institutes of Biblical Law. That's way too much. I would probably start with something like _Foundations of Social Order_ or _Intellectual Schizophrenia_. My personal favorite is _Politics of Guilt and Pity_



Foundations of Social Order is world changing, it's often too much for a new person to digest. It was the first book I read on Rushdoony, it took me about a year, as my soul kept feeling like a dartboard. Often I could read a few pages and then spend all of the next day thinking about it, as I started analyzing it. I've since read it several times now, just to actually digest it's full meaning, as I slowly became Reformed over a period of about 15 years. Each time I read it, it's new light.

Rushdoony's entire way of comprehensive thinking in terms of Reformed Theology is what is most impressive and what is incredibly value to glean from him, just as much as the theology he is teaching applied to a specific sphere. If you want to learn how to think, read Rushdoony.

All of his works are excellent as I've read them all, I've also had the privilege of reading private correspondence between Rushdoony and my Pastor during the 1970's, and several legal analysis of Rushdoony, that has been incredibly valuable. I've taken up some research on this and will be going to St Louis sometime soon and hope to go the Reformed library of the PCA and read some letters between Rushdoony and Singer deposited there. 

For a new guy that has never read him, I would recommend "The Atheism of the Early Church," because it is small, a hundred pages or so. This is where I start my children when they get about 12 or 13 years old on Rushdoony, it's a small enough work to get started without being intimidated by the magnitude of what lays ahead when you get through 10 pages of a 400 page book.


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## Thomas2007 (Dec 9, 2007)

etexas said:


> Thomas2007 said:
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Sir, it's not acceptable as a joke. If you homeschool or are ever thinking about it, the reason you won't go to jail for doing so is because of RJ Rushdoony. Because of him, every Christian family that homeschools owes a debt of gratitude for not having to suffer persecution.

The name of Rushdoony to the independence of the Christian home is as hallowed as that of Washington, Madison and Jefferson to the independence of the United States from Great Britain. It's entirely improper to joke that way about men of great character and a legacy of life's work that has such tremendous meaning.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 9, 2007)

Thomas2007 said:


> etexas said:
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Since our brother was not intentionally being disrespectful, let's try not to fall out about his terminology and give him the benefit of the doubt. As one of R.J. Rushdoony's greatest admirers I was not offended in the slightest.


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## Thomas2007 (Dec 9, 2007)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Since our brother was not intentionally being disrespectful, let's try not to fall out about his terminology and give him the benefit of the doubt. As one of R.J. Rushdoony's greatest admirers I was not offended in the slightest.



Daniel,

I did give him the benefit of the doubt in a gentle admonition. I'm not really concerned about the terminology, nor the offense, as I wasn't offended - but the attitude that then justifies it. It's simply about giving honor to where honor is due, and being polite enough to accept a gentle admonition, instead of a self justified indirect negation of that admonition. As I said, poor communications corrupt good manners.

Cordially,


Thomas


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## RamistThomist (Dec 9, 2007)

Thomas2007 said:


> Spear Dane said:
> 
> 
> > I would definitely start with listening to the free audio i linked to. As to reading, I wouldn't start wtih Institutes of Biblical Law. That's way too much. I would probably start with something like _Foundations of Social Order_ or _Intellectual Schizophrenia_. My personal favorite is _Politics of Guilt and Pity_
> ...



Thanks for the testimony. I started off with IBL. It took me little over a year. In the meanwhile I read Foundations and his two books on American history. 

What do you think of his Systematic Theology? I am in volume 2 at the moment.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 9, 2007)

Thomas,

I don't see anything necessarily disrespectful of etexas' comment. PM me if you want to discuss it.

BTW, I find your reference to Ephesians 4:29 or 1 Corinthians 15:33 lacking in your application here. 

Randy

P.S. PM me do not keep this up on this thread or I will add an infraction.


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## 3John2 (Dec 9, 2007)

I still like "Salvation & Godly Rule". I first read "Philosophy of History". Also I would recommend the Chalcedon magazine. I personally enjoy that.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 10, 2007)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Thomas,
> 
> I don't see anything necessarily disrespectful of etexas' comment. PM me if you want to discuss it.
> 
> ...




Yes, as far as I am aware, 1 Corinthians 15:33 (which can also be translated "bad company corrupts good morals") refers to people keeping bad company with the wicked, and the corrupting effect it has on their behaviour. It is not a reference to people being "bad mannered" or impolite as we understand it.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 10, 2007)

etexas said:


> I did a Wiki, but sometime Wiki gives you a lot, sometimes it leaves you wanting more, the latter was true in this case, other than the basics I got from Wiki, why and how is he so important to so many Reformed Christians, I know he was strong for the Home-Schooling and all that, but what other factors make him important? Grace and Peace.




You may find this article by Andrew Sandlin R.J. Rushdoony: Champion of Faith and Liberty to be of some help to you.


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## Amazing Grace (Dec 10, 2007)

His name will go down as one of the classics. I just love the way it looks and sounds. What is his nationality?

I can just picture and hear Michael Buffer anouncing:

RRRRUSHHHHHHHHHHDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 10, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> His name will go down as one of the classics. I just love the way it looks and sounds. What is his nationality?
> 
> I can just picture and hear Michael Buffer anouncing:
> 
> RRRRUSHHHHHHHHHHDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY



 I must confess I love saying his name as well. Rushdoony was an Armenian who was not an Arminian.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 10, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> His name will go down as one of the classics. I just love the way it looks and sounds. What is his nationality?
> 
> I can just picture and hear Michael Buffer anouncing:
> 
> RRRRUSHHHHHHHHHHDOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONNNNEYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY



His parents emigrated from Armenia/Turkey during the Turkish genocide. Five minutes after his parents crossed the river/border into Russia, the Turks slaughtered the rest of his people who were still trapped on the other side of the river. Recently President Bush shot down an attempt to recognize the Armenian holocaust. If he did so, he would anger Turkey which would hamper the War for Democracy in Iraq.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 10, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> Amazing Grace said:
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> > His name will go down as one of the classics. I just love the way it looks and sounds. What is his nationality?
> ...



It is a shame to hear this; with a "Christian" President like "W" who needs pagans. Mind you, even he is better than the alternative.

BTW, I am reading you avatar's biography at the moment.


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## 3John2 (Dec 10, 2007)

I'm about to expose my ignorance but who'd that on the avatar?


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## RamistThomist (Dec 10, 2007)

3John2 said:


> I'm about to expose my ignorance but who'd that on the avatar?



Former Chief Justice Roy Moore. He was deposed (contra the will of the voters of Alabama and the Law of God) for acknowledging the Sovereignty of God in Civil Law (that's the prosecuting Attny General's words, not mine). I had the privilege of meeting him in West Monroe, LA in 2005. 

Foundation for Moral Law


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## Southern Presbyterian (Dec 10, 2007)

You can hear Judge Moore as he address the subject of God and Civil Government Here. And I am sure there are many other resources out there for those who are interested.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 10, 2007)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> You can hear Judge Moore as he address the subject of God and Civil Government Here. And I am sure there are many other resources out there for those who are interested.



Is there any way to put that in mp3 format?


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## Southern Presbyterian (Dec 10, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> Southern Presbyterian said:
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> > You can hear Judge Moore as he address the subject of God and Civil Government Here. And I am sure there are many other resources out there for those who are interested.
> ...



Here you go. Just right click the links and "save target as" (or whatever you particular browser requires you to do).

Your Thinking Has Been Evolutionized

The Duty Of All Nations To Acknowledge God

The Triune God Is Superior To Civil Government

Separation Of Church And State

Know The Man


FYI, the 5th program is an interview with Judge Moore's Chief of Security/Body Guard, Leonard Holyfield (yes, he is Evander's cousin). He has some great insight into the person of Judge Moore.

Both are godly men and "giants" in their own ways.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 10, 2007)

Southern Presbyterian said:


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Bless you. I met Judge Moore and saw Leonard up close. Leonard is a big man!


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## Southern Presbyterian (Dec 10, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


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I also have a couple of mp3s some where from when Judge Moore spoke at our Family Conference in 2006. If like you would like, I can hunt them down and post a link, but it may take a day or so to find them.

And yes, Leonard is a big man. I'm really glad we are on the same side.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 10, 2007)

Southern Presbyterian said:


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I am kicking myself right now because Judge Moore spoke at a Baptist church in my area 2 years ago and I lost the audio to that. It was a fantastic message on the sovereignty of God. I guess I can contact that church and request the CD. It was really good.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Dec 11, 2007)

As promised, more Judge Moore.

Session 1 - Judge Moore

Session 3 - Judge Moore


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