# Psalm singing in the Synagogues?



## AV1611 (Apr 23, 2008)

Was there psalm-singing in the synagogues? Did they sing anything before David _et al_ began writing the Psalms?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 23, 2008)

AV1611 said:


> Was there psalm-singing in the synagogues? Did they sing anything before David _et al_ began writing the Psalms?



Peter Leithart has a book From Silence to Song, which examines the development of praise in the church. I have not read it myself, but it might be interesting.


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## AV1611 (Apr 23, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Peter Leithart has a book From Silence to Song, which examines the development of praise in the church. I have not read it myself, but it might be interesting.



I have it thanks. The problem is that he is engaged in a polemic against the RPW throughout the book. Whilst it is interesting I wonder if it is a complete analysis.

The more I think about the EP arguments the more I am finding them wanting, which is causing me some problems as I hold to EP.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 23, 2008)

AV1611 said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > Peter Leithart has a book From Silence to Song, which examines the development of praise in the church. I have not read it myself, but it might be interesting.
> ...



That is a shame.


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## AV1611 (Apr 23, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> That is a shame.



He states explicitly that he is opposing the 'Marcionite' strict subscriptionists.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 23, 2008)

AV1611 said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > That is a shame.
> ...



The problem with men like Dr. Leithart et al is that they are too smart for their own good.


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## Poimen (Apr 23, 2008)

AV1611 said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > That is a shame.
> ...



 What does Marcion have to do with strict subscriptionists? 

Inquiring minds would like to know even though this question is definitely


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## NaphtaliPress (Apr 23, 2008)

Poimen said:


> AV1611 said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Ritchie said:
> ...


This work was included in the survey of RPW literature which appears in The Confessional Presbyterian journal. On the use of this term, Dr. Smith writes:
The author specifically rejects the Reformed regulative principle of worship. “In the hands of at least some writers,” he writes, “the regulative principle is, in practice, hermeneutically wooden and theologically Marcionite. It is wooden because an explicit ‘command’ is required for every act of worship, and it is Marcionite because it ignores the abundant Old Testament liturgical instruction in favor of exegeting a few passages of the New.” In a footnote, he explains: “Marcion was the early church heretic who believed that the god of the New Testament was a different deity from the god of the Old. I am using ‘Marcionite’ in this context to describe a system of theology (in this case, liturgical theology) that sharply separates between the Old and the New” (Leithart, 15–16). 

Frank J. Smith, Ph.D., D.D. with Chris Coldwell, "The Regulative Principle of Worship:Sixty Years in Reformed Literature Part Two (2000–2007)." _The Confessional Presbyterian_ 3 (2007) 180-181.
​For what it's worth, here is the conclusion:
According to Dr. Leithart, David’s approach, instead of a “regulation-by-explicit-command,” was “regulation-by-analogy.” Applying this principle would lead the church today to place both candles and a tablecloth on the communion table (despite the absence of any such command), since such adornments “are consistent with the analogy—the scriptural analogy—between the Lord’s Supper and a wedding feast” (104–105).​However, as Presbyterians (such as seventeenth century theologian George Gillespie) have noted, the types of worship practices being urged by Dr. Leithart do go beyond Scriptural teaching, and actually impugn the integrity of the Bible by suggesting that the Word of God is not sufficient for our worship. Furthermore, there really is no stopping point once such a scheme is put into practice; and there are no adequate safeguards to prevent the kinds of abuses to which a Romanizing tendency has subjected the church.​


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 23, 2008)

> It is wooden because an explicit ‘command’ is required for every act of worship



This is a straw man, as the RPW allows for legitimate historical examples and good and necessary consequence to be used in determining what is commanded in worship, not just _explicit_ commands.


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## Poimen (Apr 23, 2008)

Dr. Leithart's comments about Marcionitic tendencies in the Reformed & Presbyterian world border on slander, in my opinion. I have never read any strict subscriptionist or affirmer of the RPW to reject the OT _in toto_ or even in part in their description of the RPW or its application. This is a very serious charge and one which could hardly, in my mind, be substantiated. Ironically his approach clearly undermines the historic theology and practice of Reformation worship.

Likewise, followers of Dr. Leithart's approach tend more to sacerdotalism but I hardly think that they would be very happy with my use of that word to describe their approach. It would, however, be much more charitable than implying that they practiced or fed the hermeneutic of an age old heresy.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 23, 2008)

Poimen said:


> Dr. Leithart's comments about Marcionitic tendencies in the Reformed & Presbyterian world border on slander, in my opinion. I have never read any strict subscriptionist or affirmer of RPW to reject the OT _in toto_ or even in part in their description of the RPW or its application. This is a very serious charge and one which could hardly, in my mind, be substantiated. Ironically his approach clearly undermines the historic theology and practice of Reformation worship.
> 
> Likewise, followers of Dr. Leithart's approach tend more to sacerdotalism but I hardly think that they would be very happy with my using of that word to describe that approach. It would, however, be much more charitable than implying that they practiced or fed the hermeneutic of an age old heresy.


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## NaphtaliPress (Apr 23, 2008)

Here is another part of the same review cited above:
Presbyterian Church in America minister Peter J. Leithart is a senior fellow of theology and literature at New St. Andrews College, Moscow, Idaho. He has long been an advocate of paedo-communion, and has long imbibed of the exegetical fancies that have characterized the writings of James Jordan. In 2003, Dr. Leithart wrote From _Silence to Song: The Davidic Liturgical Revolution,_ a book which continues in the same vein.​Leithart is simply following Jordan in fanciful prejudicial name calling; recall that Jordan wrote a critique of Smith and Lachman's _Worship in the Prescence of God,_ entitled _Liturgical Nestorianism: A Critical Review of Worship in the Presence of God. _




Poimen said:


> Dr. Leithart's comments about Marcionitic tendencies in the Reformed & Presbyterian world border on slander, in my opinion. I have never read any strict subscriptionist or affirmer of the RPW to reject the OT _in toto_ or even in part in their description of the RPW or its application. This is a very serious charge and one which could hardly, in my mind, be substantiated. Ironically his approach clearly undermines the historic theology and practice of Reformation worship.
> 
> Likewise, followers of Dr. Leithart's approach tend more to sacerdotalism but I hardly think that they would be very happy with my using of that word to describe their approach. It would, however, be much more charitable than implying that they practiced or fed the hermeneutic of an age old heresy.


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