# Public or Homeschool?



## ewenlin

I've been discussing this and reading through some threads. It is one of the major issues I hope to resolve before marriage.

I'm all for Homeschool. I feel that it will not be right to send my kids to public schools where they will be exposed to so much "outside" influence. (Will not define that specifically but I'm sure you all know what I mean) Therefore this undoubtedly requires my future wife to be a stay home mom so as to teach.

Sadly she doesn't feel this way. She has always felt God's call upon her to be a doctor and everything has been pointing that direction as well. From this point on, it seems she has her life set out for her in the medical field. It's not difficult to guess that she has zero qualms about sending our kids (if any) to public schools. She simply doesn't see any problems with that at all.

What do you guys think? We're trying to work this out right now, no we're not married yet. It would be pretty funny if we ended up never having any kids.

Any advice or comments?


----------



## SolaScriptura

I'd step back from the schooling issue for the time being. A bigger, more fundamental issue is the nature of how you two perceive the role of the husband and the wife.

If you are thinking you're going to be the provider and she's going to stay at home, and if she's thinking she's going to be a career woman with you two sharing all domestical responsbilities 50/50... then you're in for some problems. Best to get those things hashed out before talking about education for the kids.


----------



## Montanablue

Ewen,

I was homeschooled (and grateful for it), but I do not think that sending your children to public or private school is necessarily a problem. A lot depends on your family's situation. Some parents, to be quite honest, are just not cut out to be homeschoolers. 

I will say that if this is something that you feel extremely strongly about (as in, you wouldn't be willing to send your children to conventional school or you will be unhappy if you wife pursues medicine instead of being a full time stay at home mom), you'd best iron out these differences before marriage rather than after.

Incidentally, I have a mother who is also a medical professional and continued to practice after having children. (I grew up just fine and am not scarred). Feel free to pm me if you want to discuss more. 

Edit: Also, what Ben said.


----------



## wallingj

I believe your descriptions are not enough there could be many reasons to choose either home school, public school, or private school.


----------



## Tripel

I don't think public school in inherently wrong. It depends on several factors. Not every public school is the same, so a lot of it depends on the schools in your region. The biggest factors to consider are the personality/character of the child being considered for public school and the level of involvement the parents expect to have.


----------



## refbaptdude

1. There must be some agreement on what you both believe to be biblical responsibilities as parents to your children. 

2. Well if she is going to be a doctor (MD) it sounds like you might can afford a good Christian private school.


----------



## Wannabee

SolaScriptura said:


> I'd step back from the schooling issue for the time being. A bigger, more fundamental issue is the nature of how you two perceive the role of the husband and the wife.
> 
> If you are thinking you're going to be the provider and she's going to stay at home, and if she's thinking she's going to be a career woman with you two sharing all domestical responsbilities 50/50... then you're in for some problems. Best to get those things hashed out before talking about education for the kids.



Though I have a very strong opinion in regard to training up our children, we need to step back and focus on first things first. A godly wife cannot have a career that precipitates her marriage or her husband's leading. God may have equipped her for medical expertise, but He did so for His reasons, not hers. I know this is a bit blunt, but this is the core thing you two need to focus on. If she's called to be a doctor before being married and raising children according to biblical mandate then she's not called to be married. If she's called to be married and a mother then she's called to do this above any idea of a "career" outside of this sphere. She is called to help, support and promote her husband. It's not a lesser role, it's a different role. If this can't be worked out and a common vision for God's glory established in the relationship then marriage should not be an option. It might be prudent to step back and engage in a thorough study of biblical manhood and womanhood at this point.

May God provide wisdom and discernment.


----------



## Knoxienne

Wannabee said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd step back from the schooling issue for the time being. A bigger, more fundamental issue is the nature of how you two perceive the role of the husband and the wife.
> 
> If you are thinking you're going to be the provider and she's going to stay at home, and if she's thinking she's going to be a career woman with you two sharing all domestical responsbilities 50/50... then you're in for some problems. Best to get those things hashed out before talking about education for the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though I have a very strong opinion in regard to training up our children, we need to step back and focus on first things first. A godly wife cannot have a career that precipitates her marriage or her husband's leading. God may have equipped her for medical expertise, but He did so for His reasons, not hers. I know this is a bit blunt, but this is the core thing you two need to focus on. If she's called to be a doctor before being married and raising children according to biblical mandate then she's not called to be married. If she's called to be married and a mother then she's called to do this above any idea of a "career" outside of this sphere. She is called to help, support and promote her husband. It's not a lesser role, it's a different role. If this can't be worked out and a common vision for God's glory established in the relationship then marriage should not be an option. It might be prudent to step back and engage in a thorough study of biblical manhood and womanhood at this point.
> 
> May God provide wisdom and discernment.
Click to expand...


Go ahead and be blunt! It's refreshing!


----------



## nasa30

I did vote homeschool but I do think that Ben is so right in that ground work needs to be done between you and your wife before that decision is made. I went to public school so I know that side of it as well. 

My oldest daughter is in her senior year of homeschooling this year. She has always been homeschooled. There is no comparison that homeschool is better BUT you wife must be on board with it or there will be constant issues.


----------



## sastark

Wannabee said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'd step back from the schooling issue for the time being. A bigger, more fundamental issue is the nature of how you two perceive the role of the husband and the wife.
> 
> If you are thinking you're going to be the provider and she's going to stay at home, and if she's thinking she's going to be a career woman with you two sharing all domestical responsbilities 50/50... then you're in for some problems. Best to get those things hashed out before talking about education for the kids.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Though I have a very strong opinion in regard to training up our children, we need to step back and focus on first things first. A godly wife cannot have a career that precipitates her marriage or her husband's leading. God may have equipped her for medical expertise, but He did so for His reasons, not hers. I know this is a bit blunt, but this is the core thing you two need to focus on. If she's called to be a doctor before being married and raising children according to biblical mandate then she's not called to be married. If she's called to be married and a mother then she's called to do this above any idea of a "career" outside of this sphere. She is called to help, support and promote her husband. It's not a lesser role, it's a different role. If this can't be worked out and a common vision for God's glory established in the relationship then marriage should not be an option. It might be prudent to step back and engage in a thorough study of biblical manhood and womanhood at this point.
> 
> May God provide wisdom and discernment.
Click to expand...


Are you saying that a woman who is a Medical Doctor cannot get married or have kids?


----------



## Honor

I think that if God has gifted her to be a doctor then GREAT! The medical field is in dire need of godly people. Let her do that and find a good private school and godly helpers with the children. Remember the Proverbs 31 woman had maids and servants and helpers... she didn't do it all by herself. there is absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about her working outside the home so long as she is still the "manager of her home".


----------



## Knoxienne

We have a very good pastor friend whose wife is a D.O. When she married, she understood that her job was to be in the home, as the scriptures explicitly teach. However, she still keeps her license current so that she can do certain duties - give advice, other things the license allows, etc. She has much wisdom to contribute to the Body of Christ and the community and she does this. But she does it within the context of her home and her church, and her husband, children and home is her priority.

I never thought of this until this thread, but I find it interesting that decades ago, doctors did housecalls and they don't anymore. I see a real need for women doctors to minister to women and children in their homes through midwifery, medicine, etc. What a calling and ministry! This is a perfect example of a woman who isn't in her house all day, but is ministering within the context of family and church.


----------



## Montanablue

Honor said:


> I think that if God has gifted her to be a doctor then GREAT! The medical field is in dire need of godly people. Let her do that and find a good private school and godly helpers with the children. Remember the Proverbs 31 woman had maids and servants and helpers... she didn't do it all by herself. there is absolutely nothing wrong or unbiblical about her working outside the home so long as she is still the "manager of her home".



I'm out of thanks, but I agree. This was my mother's philosophy as well. She put us first always, but continued to be involved in her professional calling.


----------



## Wannabee

Seth,

Your question, along with Jessica's response, provides needed balance. If her husband perceives her work as conducive to keeping the home in order, sure. But the concern elicited by the OP was that the wife-to-be disagrees with the husband on a key issue based on career goals. Obviously this could be easily misunderstood and miscommunicated. But based on what was stated, my concern would be more along the lines of their challenges to understand the biblical principles of marriage and then go from there. Simply put, she needs to perceive her marriage as her career. She needs to perceive keeping the home as her career. She needs to perceive being a mother as her career. Then, if all things are in order and her husband supports her desire to pursue being a doctor, she should pursue it for the glory of God and as another means by which she promotes her husband.

Thanks for the question, Seth. Hope that clarifies...


----------



## Honor

If you pressure her to quit her career and o stay home with the kids and homeschool she may very well resent you... there is no verse in the Bible that said that children HAVE to be taught at home. we homeschool because we can't afford private school... however if we could they would be there tomorrow. How well of a job teaching your children do you think she'll do if she feels that it's something she's forced to do not something she has a gift and a passion for? there are godly Biblical women who had outside the home careers. they did just fine.... Pray together and seek God's Will for both of you.


----------



## sastark

Wannabee said:


> Seth,
> 
> Your question, along with Jessica's response, provides needed balance. If her husband perceives her work as conducive to keeping the home in order, sure. But the concern elicited by the OP was that the wife-to-be disagrees with the husband on a key issue based on career goals. Obviously this could be easily misunderstood and miscommunicated. But based on what was stated, my concern would be more along the lines of their challenges to understand the biblical principles of marriage and then go from there. Simply put, she needs to perceive her marriage as her career. She needs to perceive keeping the home as her career. She needs to perceive being a mother as her career. Then, if all things are in order and her husband supports her desire to pursue being a doctor, she should pursue it for the glory of God and as another means by which she promotes her husband.
> 
> Thanks for the question, Seth. Hope that clarifies...



Joe, thanks for the answer. It does help clarify your earlier post. I'm in agreement that it should be husband and home as first priorities, career as second for Christian women. (Obviously, I believe the same applies to husbands: wife and home first, career second.)


----------



## Wannabee

Jessica, with all due respect, your focus is on the desires of the wife rather than godliness. Two things. She is to submit to her husband. He is to love her and live with her with understanding. If his convictions dictate that his children be taught at home and hers dictate that she pursues a career then she is blatantly disobeying God and distorting her priorities. If he sees a way to faithfully train their children without compromise and still provide for her to pursue being a doctor then great. But if he leads she must follow. And submission leaves absolutely no room for resentment in the heart of the wife. If she is resentful then she is resentful toward God.


----------



## dr_parsley

ewenlin said:


> I've been discussing this and reading through some threads. It is one of the major issues I hope to resolve before marriage.
> 
> I'm all for Homeschool. I feel that it will not be right to send my kids to public schools where they will be exposed to so much "outside" influence. (Will not define that specifically but I'm sure you all know what I mean) Therefore this undoubtedly requires my future wife to be a stay home mom so as to teach.



I could perhaps bless you with some doubt about that then 

I'm right with you on public schools. Although some are better than others, I wouldn't send my children to any of them, at least until they are mature enough to be able to withstand the world, which might not be until they're too old for public school anyway. But one of my bugbears is when men put all the responsibility of homeschooling onto their wives. I know a lot of homeschoolers and in every case the wife does all the homeschooling; in every case except one that is, because I share it equally with my wife. We are both somewhat self employed so we can be flexible with our time, so I would understand if due to ones economic situation it had to be all one spouse doing it, but if it's at all possible I would urge fathers to get involved in the homeschooling of their children. If you don't then the message it will give to your children is that "Daddy is doing more important things than a) learning and b) spending time with you". How can earning money be more important than helping your children value learning and helping them grow intellectually as much as they are able. Is a woman more suitable to give education than a man? Or is education of little consequence?


----------



## Honor

Joe, the OP stated that God has already called his wife to be a doctor and that everything is working out that way (hence the comformation that that is indeed God's Will) for him to say "I believe this and you are my wife therefore you must submit" would be calling her to sin. When God says "YOU DO THIS" and you don't that is sin regardless of who tells you to do it. I would hate for the wife to be swallowed by the proverbial big fish because her husband's will ran contradictory than Gods.
Wives are only called to submit when it is not outright sin. and if God has CLEARLY called her to be a doctor then a doctor she should be.


----------



## DanMcCormack

The poll is skewed as there is no option for "Christian school."


----------



## Wannabee

Honor said:


> Joe, the OP stated that God has already called his wife to be a doctor and that everything is working out that way (hence the comformation that that is indeed God's Will) for him to say "I believe this and you are my wife therefore you must submit" would be calling her to sin. When God says "YOU DO THIS" and you don't that is sin regardless of who tells you to do it. I would hate for the wife to be swallowed by the proverbial big fish because her husband's will ran contradictory than Gods.
> Wives are only called to submit when it is not outright sin. and if God has CLEARLY called her to be a doctor then a doctor she should be.



Jessica, you are claiming that she has a clear word from God. She doesn't. He has given her no such mandate. She has passions for certain things. Passions must be subjected to the scrutiny of God's Word. She must bend her passions to line up with God's. She has circumstances in her life that have equipped her with specific expertise. She will be able to use this expertise all her life for the glory of God, whether she's a doctor or not. But the career choices of a woman cannot be confused with a divine mandate from God almighty. God has made her role as a woman clear. She is to submit to God by submitting to her husband, period. Even if he's an absolute jerk, unless he directly orders her to sin then she must submit ("submit" carries with it the embracing of the order that God has established, not mere obedience).

If she is to go against her husband's wishes there must be clear revelation from God for her to do so. And God did not tell her "You must be a doctor." He told her, "Be holy, for I am holy." If she's married, He told her:

Ephesians 5:22-24
22Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything.​
and

1 Peter 3:1-6
1Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives, 2when they observe your chaste conduct accompanied by fear. 3Do not let your adornment be merely outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— 4rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God. 5For in this manner, in former times, the holy women who trusted in God also adorned themselves, being submissive to their own husbands, 6as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, whose daughters you are if you do good and are not afraid with any terror.​
and

Titus 2:4-5
4that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.​

All of this precludes any desire on her part to be a doctor. Our vision is to be eternal and Christocentric, not temporal and internal.


Blessings,


----------



## ColdSilverMoon

I agree with what Pastor Johnson and others have said, but I chose other, simply because I don't believe your choices are so limited. The wife's primary responsibility is to home and family. Can she maintain biblical priorities and still have a medical practice? I think so, but it is important that her heart is right before the Lord in her God-given role before working out the logistics of schooling for the kids. 

Personally, I'm somewhat against homeschooling for a variety of reasons, so I will likely send my kids to a public school or preferably a private Christian school. In that case I have no problem with my wife working while the kids are at school. I think the same applies to your situation: if you are convinced that homeschooling is appropriate your wife should make that a priority. If you are led to send them to public school and it frees time for your wife to have a practice, then I think it's a perfectly reasonable option.


----------



## Honor

Ewen said in his OP


> She has always felt God's call upon her to be a doctor and everything has been pointing that direction as well. From this point on, it seems she has her life set out for her in the medical field.


How can YOU speak for God?


> Jessica, you are claiming that she has a clear word from God. She doesn't. He has given her no such mandate. She has passions for certain things.


 You can't say that... if God has called her to be a doctor which is what the OP stated then she should be a doctor. Point blank period. When a man has a calling to be a pastor can another man or a woman say "He has given him no such mandate" as you so flippantly did to this womans calling? are you suggesting by your remarks that she is confused about her calling in life or are you simply saying that her calling isn't all that important?


----------



## Montanablue

> She is to submit to God by submitting to her husband, period. Even if he's an absolute jerk, unless he directly orders her to sin then she must submit ("submit" carries with it the embracing of the order that God has established, not mere obedience).
> 
> If she is to go against her husband's wishes there must be clear revelation from God for her to do so



This is why its so important to have these conversations before rather than after marriage. I would argue that if a man knows his girlfriend/fiance intends to have a career outside the home (and he's not okay with this), he has an absolute duty to disclose this before they marry. (And of course, she should be smart enough to initiate the conversation if he doesn't.) 



> 4that they admonish the young women to love their husbands, to love their children, 5to be discreet, chaste, homemakers, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God may not be blasphemed.



I think its perfectly possible to have a career and fulfill these requirements. I watched my mum do it.

-----Added 8/5/2009 at 01:43:04 EST-----



> You can't say that... if God has called her to be a doctor which is what the OP stated then she should be a doctor. Point blank period. When a man has a calling to be a pastor can another man or a woman say "He has given him no such mandate" as you so flippantly did to this womans calling? are you suggesting by your remarks that she is confused about her calling in life or are you simply saying that her calling isn't all that important?



Agreed. And I would add that we should be at least a little careful when talking about an individual who is (a. not present to speak for herself and (b. we have never even met.


----------



## wallingj

I think it needs to be said currently the woman in question is under the care of her father, since she is not married. These differences between staying home/career, need to be worked out before being married. If she feels she has a call, and others also (like her dad) sees this call, and God gifted her with the talents for this call then I think we would be on shaky ground to question that call.


----------



## refbaptdude

Kathleen is correct when she said:



> This is why its so important to have these conversations before rather than after marriage. I would argue that if a man knows his girlfriend/fiance intends to have a career outside the home (and he's not okay with this), he has an absolute duty to disclose this before they marry. (And of course, she should be smart enough to initiate the conversation if he doesn't.)



This very thread shows the seriousness of this matter. 

I agree with Joe and others who have pointed out that the Scriptures are _very clear_ on this issue, that her priorities after God are husband and family/home. But none of this necessarily precludes her from being a MD.


----------



## kvanlaan

> You can't say that... if God has called her to be a doctor which is what the OP stated then she should be a doctor. Point blank period. When a man has a calling to be a pastor can another man or a woman say "He has given him no such mandate" as you so flippantly did to this womans calling? are you suggesting by your remarks that she is confused about her calling in life or are you simply saying that her calling isn't all that important?



Sorry, I just don't buy it. Did she get a Word of Wisdom? Otherwise, the fact that "all things are working out and falling into place" by no means suggest that it is God's will. It may easily be temptation. And the fact that others have done it and been fine is no reason to jump into it.

If her husband has prayerfully considered the situation and does not feel it is appropriate, then that's that. If she will resent him for this decision, then perhaps marriage should be rethought.


----------



## wallingj

> *If her husband *has prayerfully considered the situation and does not feel it is appropriate, then that's that. If she will resent him for this decision, then perhaps marriage should be rethought.



That is the problem they are not married yet, so it must be mutual agreement.


----------



## kvanlaan

"Mutual agreement" does not speak to impending headship.


----------



## wallingj

Impeding is not now, she is not under his headship. She is free to make her own decision now, if their is not a mutual agreement now, then I strongly advise them not to get married.


----------



## kvanlaan

> if their is not a mutual agreement now, then I strongly advise them not to get married.



Agreed. If she feels very differently on the subject, this must be resolved before anything else goes forward.


----------



## Wannabee

Honor said:


> You can't say that... if God has called her to be a doctor which is what the OP stated then she should be a doctor. Point blank period. When a man has a calling to be a pastor can another man or a woman say "He has given him no such mandate" as you so flippantly did to this womans calling? are you suggesting by your remarks that she is confused about her calling in life or are you simply saying that her calling isn't all that important?



Dear Jessica,

I can only speak for God in so much as He has revealed Himself in Scripture. How can this young lady speak for God? Will she put Him in a box that necessitates her MD, even if that means dishonoring Him in her marriage, home and parenting? You might THINK that you're called to something. But that does not mean that you have divine revelation.

A few key words in the OP. "felt" "pointing" "seems" None of this is divine mandate. It's perspective, perception, desire, vision, etc. It's good. But it must be in subjection to Scripture and flexible in light of the fact that God is God. He will do what He will for His own glory. And it may be that He will receive much more glory if the young lady is a housewife and mother than if she were a doctor. We must not dare to diminish the grandeur and glory of being called to be a wife and mother.

You are confusing desire with mandate. I listed the mandates of God that are very clear. You've based your assertions on someone's desires based on circumstances in their lives. This is a persuasive argument, and has a certain degree of credibility, but falls flat on its face when held against and found in any opposition to biblical mandate.

"Calling" is very subjective. It can and often is based on emotions, desires, perception, experiences, etc., that may or may not line up with God's Word. And I did nothing "flippantly." You misunderstand my motive. I am calling her to godliness, just as I would a man. And if a man tells me that he's called to be a pastor I will do the same thing. We will go through Scripture and discern whether he meets the requirements according to biblical mandate. The requirements according to biblical mandate for a wife have nothing to do with her desire to have a career - absolutely nothing. I'm not saying that her desires shouldn't be taken into consideration. I'm saying that there is no such thing as God telling you that you are to be a dentist for the rest of your life. He might take you though dental school, arrange for all fees paid, give you a mind that grasps it and excels and a steady hand so that you are able to perform unlike any dentist that ever lived. You may desire it more than anything. In such a case all that is proven is that you can be just as guilty of idolatry as an unqualified man who pursues the pastorate. In either case the goal has precipitated obedience to God.

And, in regard to your last question, "yes." I am saying that she is confused about her calling in life if she thinks she can exercise any jurisdiction over her career decisions, how to train the children, keeping the home in order, etc., in opposition to her husbands leading. If she has simply expressed a desire but at the same time assures her husband-to-be that she will gladly follow him and pursue their marriage and family for the glory of God, even if that means giving up her dreams of being a doctor, then I have misunderstood the OP and I salute her desire for godliness.

I think inherent in much of the disagreement here is a misunderstanding of "calling." This is for many reasons, including the encroachment of charismatic perspectives on discerning God's will. Ultimately, if she can honor God first, according to Scripture first, and still be a doctor to the glory of God the praise God for another godly doctor. But if she can't take care of the first things, she has no business pursuing the other.

Blessings,


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

Yo,

*Please homeschool them babies.... If you can't do it then pay someone to do it for you. There are plenty of Reformed Presbyterian and Baptist saints who homeschool their children and would gladly take your children in as well. Look them up in your local assembly....LOL....

Tis is true that some parents shouldn't be homeschooling b/c they don't have the giftings of teaching but that doesn't mean they are without friends and collegues who do. 

The most important thing is that the children are raised in God fearing and accurate schooling...Nothing american...LOL...*

Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## Knoxienne

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> Yo,
> 
> *Please homeschool them babies.... If you can't do it then pay someone to do it for you. There are plenty of Reformed Presbyterian and Baptist saints who homeschool their children and would gladly take your children in as well. Look them up in your local assembly....LOL....
> 
> Tis is true that some parents shouldn't be homeschooling b/c they don't have the giftings of teaching but that doesn't mean they are without friends and collegues who do.
> 
> The most important thing is that the children are raised in God fearing and accurate schooling...Nothing american...LOL...*
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> seal



Seal, you are so right! There are plenty of women with room at their dining room tables and in their living rooms who are more than willing to show hospitality to another family in this way. What an opportunity for ministry and the blessing of community! I have homeschooled children whose parents could not for a time or could not at all due to a variety of circumstances and the Lord blessed it tremendously. 

Churches need to be more proactive in specifically telling their congregations that they are committed to Christian education (either homeschooling or Christian day schools) and that there are parents who will help them homeschool, help with supplies, help with methodology, etc. It can be very intimidating and overwhelming, and people need to reach out and say, "We're here. You don't have to place your child in public school because you're a single parent, or because you're poor, or because you don't think you're smart enough to school your own child. You don't have to be afraid of this or that. We're here and we'll show you how such and such works".


----------



## Grillsy

I really don't like the choices for this poll.


----------



## Montanablue

> Seal, you are so right! There are plenty of women with room at their dining room tables and in their living rooms who are more than willing to show hospitality to another family in this way. What an opportunity for ministry and the blessing of community! I have homeschooled children whose parents could not for a time or could not at all due to a variety of circumstances and the Lord blessed it tremendously.



I've actually not run into people that have done this before, but it seems like a great solution for some families. Probably cheaper than many Christian schools too!


----------



## Leslie

I stayed home during my children's preschool years and started medical school when my younger child started first grade. She told her friends, "Mommy and I are both first graders." It wasn't easy but I finished, took my first postgrad year at a VA hospital where they had a benign call schedule. With the exception of two years for one and four for the other, the two of them went to Christian schools through high school. Neither of them resents my having done this (they are in their mid-40's now). A medical career is less demanding now than it was when I went. There was a lot of resident-abuse then--working 32 hours straight and the like--which has been eliminated. 

God has not gifted every woman to be a stay-at-home Mom. I hate housework and hate cooking, went crazy while staying home full time. My rationale for starting medical school was "If I were a child, I'd rather have a half-time good Mom than a full-time witch." That was the choice. 

If you cannot encourage your girlfriend to go to medical school, you should find another girlfriend. The divorce rate amongst married male medical students is high and the rate amongst female medical students is almost 100%. My marriage was one of the very few that survived.


----------



## Knoxienne

Montanablue said:


> Seal, you are so right! There are plenty of women with room at their dining room tables and in their living rooms who are more than willing to show hospitality to another family in this way. What an opportunity for ministry and the blessing of community! I have homeschooled children whose parents could not for a time or could not at all due to a variety of circumstances and the Lord blessed it tremendously.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've actually not run into people that have done this before, but it seems like a great solution for some families. Probably cheaper than many Christian schools too!
Click to expand...


True - it's rare today for people to offer those types of things. And it shouldn't be among the Body of Christ. And people aren't going to ask, because they are afraid of bothering people and putting them out and appearing "needy" even though everyone is. There are a lot of people in the church who won't invite people over for a cup of coffee much less offer to take on a commitment like that. Yet if the church is going to grow and do what she's meant to do in the world and be salt and light; and if we want to get the freedoms back that we've lost, we need to learn to live in community and depend on one another more. We're so disconnected in our society. No wonder we have all of the problems we do as a nation and as people.


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

Knoxienne said:


> Seal, you are so right! There are plenty of women with room at their dining room tables and in their living rooms who are more than willing to show hospitality to another family in this way. What an opportunity for ministry and the blessing of community! I have homeschooled children whose parents could not for a time or could not at all due to a variety of circumstances and the Lord blessed it tremendously.
> 
> Churches need to be more proactive in specifically telling their congregations that they are committed to Christian education (either homeschooling or Christian day schools) and that there are parents who will help them homeschool, help with supplies, help with methodology, etc. It can be very intimidating and overwhelming, and people need to reach out and say, "We're here. You don't have to place your child in public school because you're a single parent, or because you're poor, or because you don't think you're smart enough to school your own child. You don't have to be afraid of this or that. We're here and we'll show you how such and such works".



*Thank you,

Me and my wife will be placing our son in Homeschool with another family for a few months while she works b/c our in-home babysitter/homeschooler is going back to school. Not to mention when we were both unbelievers we racked up over $70,000 in school loans combined. So we want to pay off the princinple of our loans which is actually about $40,000 so that she can homeschool and we can be debt free.

Now me and my wife have every intention to homeschooling all of our children but we also want to start a Christian Day Care. So we are in the process of looking for a home (not in a deed restricted neighborhood) so that we can run a Biblical Daycare out of our home for Christian parents who must work due to this economy or various other reasons. No unregenerate parents/children will be allowed unless they are willing to be ministered to and know that their children will be taught didatic Christian Doctrine. Not to mention misbehavior or ungodly influence from parents/children will not be tolerated.

We are still in the beginning stages of forming our philosophy on this issue but Homeschooling is very important and foundational for the pro-liferation of our Faith. Public schools and daycares are getting more liberal and humanistic by the second therefore we must grow more in Godliness and our epistemology as well.*


Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## CatherineL

One thing to talk about is any debt your financee may have coming into your marriage. My sister and another dear Christian friend are both in the situation where they have several kids, really would love to stay home or even just work fewer hours, but the load of their medical school debt makes it impossible to even take a few years off when their kids are young. You don't get those baby years back, and many women who don't think it will be a big deal to them change their minds when they have their babies - its hard to prepare a women with no kids for the depth of protectiveness and connection to her children she will feel as mother. The best thing is plan for her to have the option to stop work once babies come, even if she thinks she wants to keep working. Its hard to imagine a debt-free path to a MD degree - possibly the military? You don't say how far she is in her training...would she be interested in getting RN first, then perhaps considering going back to school after she has kids and they're at least school age? Personally, I wouldn't trade being a full-time keeper at home for any job outside the home, but if she really wants to go that route at least be realistic about the financial details and think about other options that would give her more flexibility later on.


----------



## Knoxienne

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> Knoxienne said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seal, you are so right! There are plenty of women with room at their dining room tables and in their living rooms who are more than willing to show hospitality to another family in this way. What an opportunity for ministry and the blessing of community! I have homeschooled children whose parents could not for a time or could not at all due to a variety of circumstances and the Lord blessed it tremendously.
> 
> Churches need to be more proactive in specifically telling their congregations that they are committed to Christian education (either homeschooling or Christian day schools) and that there are parents who will help them homeschool, help with supplies, help with methodology, etc. It can be very intimidating and overwhelming, and people need to reach out and say, "We're here. You don't have to place your child in public school because you're a single parent, or because you're poor, or because you don't think you're smart enough to school your own child. You don't have to be afraid of this or that. We're here and we'll show you how such and such works".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Thank you,
> 
> Me and my wife will be placing our son in Homeschool with another family for a few months while she works b/c our in-home babysitter/homeschooler is going back to school. Not to mention when we were both unbelievers we racked up over $70,000 in school loans combined. So we want to pay off the princinple of our loans which is actually about $40,000 so that she can homeschool and we can be debt free.
> 
> Now me and my wife have every intention to homeschooling all of our children but we also want to start a Christian Day Care. So we are in the process of looking for a home (not in a deed restricted neighborhood) so that we can run a Biblical Daycare out of our home for Christian parents who must work due to this economy or various other reasons. No unregenerate parents/children will be allowed unless they are willing to be ministered to and know that their children will be taught didatic Christian Doctrine. Not to mention misbehavior or ungodly influence from parents/children will not be tolerated.
> 
> We are still in the beginning stages of forming our philosophy on this issue but Homeschooling is very important and foundational for the pro-liferation of our Faith. Public schools and daycares are getting more liberal and humanistic by the second therefore we must grow more in Godliness and our epistemology as well.*
> 
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> seal
Click to expand...


Wow, Seal, how exciting! We will remember you and your family and church in prayer as you have your son homeschooled and get this other ministry going! This makes my day!


----------



## JoyFullMom

Not all states in the USA will allow someone to homeschool anyone other than *their own biological children*.


----------



## Knoxienne

JoyFullMom said:


> Not all states in the USA will allow someone to homeschool anyone other than *their own biological children*.



True - we went through this in MO and then found out that here it's only illegal if you're being paid. I did it for free. I don't know what the specific laws are in other states.


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

JoyFullMom said:


> Not all states in the USA will allow someone to homeschool anyone other than *their own biological children*.



*Move to Florida...... If any state is practicing such Marxism then it's time to leave....in my opinion....*

Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## Knoxienne

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> JoyFullMom said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not all states in the USA will allow someone to homeschool anyone other than *their own biological children*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> *Move to Florida...... If any state is practicing such Marxism then it's time to leave....in my opinion....*
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> seal
Click to expand...


Out of thanks, but


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

*Can any tell me how the state finds out about who homeschools who???*


----------



## Joseph Scibbe

I went to public school and look at me............ well I may not be the best example afterall.


----------



## Montanablue

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> *Can any tell me how the state finds out about who homeschools who???*



Well, we had to register with the state - but there was not really anyway for them to know who exactly was doing the teaching. I suppose the IRS could find out from people reporting that their income was from homeschooling others, but I feel like you could legitimately report your job as "Private Tutoring." 

I did attend a homeschool coop as a child. (parents came together and hired teachers to teach subjects that they struggled with or subjects best taught in a group setting - chemistry labs, for example). I wonder if that would fall under this unfortunate law.


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

Unashamed 116 said:


> I went to public school and look at me............ well I may not be the best example afterall.



*I went to public school and I pity myself.  The dichotomy I created in acting holy at home and a fool at school created many problems for me. Not to mention the stuff freaky freddie taught me. So, I don't think any of us are good examples or proof public school is beneficial.... I know you were being sarcastic though...LOL...I'm not even going to mention the humanist college I went to where we had co-ed dorms. I mean talk about your modern day Corinth.... *

Grace and Peace,
seal

-----Added 8/5/2009 at 04:29:22 EST-----



Montanablue said:


> sealdaSupralapsarian said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can any tell me how the state finds out about who homeschools who???*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we had to register with the state - but there was not really anyway for them to know who exactly was doing the teaching. I suppose the IRS could find out from people reporting that their income was from homeschooling others, but I feel like you could legitimately report your job as "Private Tutoring."
> 
> I did attend a homeschool coop as a child. (parents came together and hired teachers to teach subjects that they struggled with or subjects best taught in a group setting - chemistry labs, for example). I wonder if that would fall under this unfortunate law.
Click to expand...



*I guess I am a bit unfamiliar with registering a child with the state. My son in my avatar is my first child so the state hasn't really been in our business or anything like that. Also there are plenty of families that homeschool their children at the church I attend and the ones I have attended they didn't seem heckled at all by the state. I will certainly be asking at church this week what's the deal is.... Thanks for your insight sis....*

Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## Idelette

Ewen,

I highly suggest this website for several excellent resources regarding Biblical manhood and womanhood. I think it would be a great for the both of you to read through some of the articles together and discuss them prior to dealing with the subject of homeschooling/career issues. 

CBMW


----------



## Knoxienne

Montanablue said:


> sealdaSupralapsarian said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Can any tell me how the state finds out about who homeschools who???*
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, we had to register with the state - but there was not really anyway for them to know who exactly was doing the teaching. I suppose the IRS could find out from people reporting that their income was from homeschooling others, but I feel like you could legitimately report your job as "Private Tutoring."
> 
> I did attend a homeschool coop as a child. (parents came together and hired teachers to teach subjects that they struggled with or subjects best taught in a group setting - chemistry labs, for example). I wonder if that would fall under this unfortunate law.
Click to expand...


True, that's why it's probably best to just do it for free and be paid with fellowship and other things. Maybe a stay at home mom can homeschool a hairstylist single mom's children and the single mom can give the stay at home mom's family haircuts, perms, etc. That's a great trade. Or the single mom can take the kids for the other mom while her and her husband have a date or a weekend together. Produce from vegetable gardens can be traded. Laundry can be done for each other and meals prepared for one another. The Lord will create opportunities and wealth this way. With the way the economy is going, we're going to have to get back to bartering and trade anyway. Imagine if the heathen saw us living this way serving one another and the salt and light it would produce. 

There are plenty of other rewards all the gold and silver in the world can't buy. The fellowship and community rewards alone are worth it. Imagine how many of the mental and emotional problems that plague our population would disappear, simply because we're together as believers during the day instead of separated in our own little offices, factories and cubicles. A child rising up to call his mother blessed because he got a Christian education is worth it all. 

I went to a church that had a homeschool co-op once. I sure miss it. The fellowship alone was great.


----------



## kvanlaan

> Calling" is very subjective. It can and often is based on emotions, desires, perception, experiences, etc., that may or may not line up with God's Word. And I did nothing "flippantly." You misunderstand my motive. I am calling her to godliness, just as I would a man. And if a man tells me that he's called to be a pastor I will do the same thing. We will go through Scripture and discern whether he meets the requirements according to biblical mandate. The requirements according to biblical mandate for a wife have nothing to do with her desire to have a career - absolutely nothing. I'm not saying that her desires shouldn't be taken into consideration. I'm saying that there is no such thing as God telling you that you are to be a dentist for the rest of your life. He might take you though dental school, arrange for all fees paid, give you a mind that grasps it and excels and a steady hand so that you are able to perform unlike any dentist that ever lived. You may desire it more than anything. In such a case all that is proven is that you can be just as guilty of idolatry as an unqualified man who pursues the pastorate. In either case the goal has precipitated obedience to God.



The best example I can think of is my friend who went through school at MIT for engineering, got her PhD, and then she and her husband had children (not sure where in this they got married). And how did she 'use' her degree? As a homeschooling mom. I'd love to see the bumper sticker: "My son is homeschooled by an MIT PhD".


----------



## LawrenceU

kvanlaan said:


> Calling" is very subjective. It can and often is based on emotions, desires, perception, experiences, etc., that may or may not line up with God's Word. And I did nothing "flippantly." You misunderstand my motive. I am calling her to godliness, just as I would a man. And if a man tells me that he's called to be a pastor I will do the same thing. We will go through Scripture and discern whether he meets the requirements according to biblical mandate. The requirements according to biblical mandate for a wife have nothing to do with her desire to have a career - absolutely nothing. I'm not saying that her desires shouldn't be taken into consideration. I'm saying that there is no such thing as God telling you that you are to be a dentist for the rest of your life. He might take you though dental school, arrange for all fees paid, give you a mind that grasps it and excels and a steady hand so that you are able to perform unlike any dentist that ever lived. You may desire it more than anything. In such a case all that is proven is that you can be just as guilty of idolatry as an unqualified man who pursues the pastorate. In either case the goal has precipitated obedience to God.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The best example I can think of is my friend who went through school at MIT for engineering, got her PhD, and then she and her husband had children (not sure where in this they got married). And how did she 'use' her degree? As a homeschooling mom. I'd love to see the bumper sticker: "My son is homeschooled by an MIT PhD".
Click to expand...


I love it!


----------



## Webservant

If she is called to be a physician, then you have two choices: marry a physician and have a dramatically different marriage than you imagined, or tell her that God is calling you to marry a mother who will put her career as a wife and mother over a career outside of the home. I am not telling you to say this in any coercive manner - and you must be prepared to accept whatever she decides. Know this - if she says she can do both, you will end up with one or the other. My belief is the two careers are mutually exclusive.


----------



## Semper Fidelis

ewenlin said:


> I've been discussing this and reading through some threads. It is one of the major issues I hope to resolve before marriage.
> 
> I'm all for Homeschool. I feel that it will not be right to send my kids to public schools where they will be exposed to so much "outside" influence. (Will not define that specifically but I'm sure you all know what I mean) Therefore this undoubtedly requires my future wife to be a stay home mom so as to teach.
> 
> Sadly she doesn't feel this way. She has always felt God's call upon her to be a doctor and everything has been pointing that direction as well. From this point on, it seems she has her life set out for her in the medical field. It's not difficult to guess that she has zero qualms about sending our kids (if any) to public schools. She simply doesn't see any problems with that at all.
> 
> What do you guys think? We're trying to work this out right now, no we're not married yet. It would be pretty funny if we ended up never having any kids.
> 
> Any advice or comments?



Brother,

I wouldn't make this decision based on a poll.


----------



## SolaScriptura

Semper Fidelis said:


> ewenlin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been discussing this and reading through some threads. It is one of the major issues I hope to resolve before marriage.
> 
> I'm all for Homeschool. I feel that it will not be right to send my kids to public schools where they will be exposed to so much "outside" influence. (Will not define that specifically but I'm sure you all know what I mean) Therefore this undoubtedly requires my future wife to be a stay home mom so as to teach.
> 
> Sadly she doesn't feel this way. She has always felt God's call upon her to be a doctor and everything has been pointing that direction as well. From this point on, it seems she has her life set out for her in the medical field. It's not difficult to guess that she has zero qualms about sending our kids (if any) to public schools. She simply doesn't see any problems with that at all.
> 
> What do you guys think? We're trying to work this out right now, no we're not married yet. It would be pretty funny if we ended up never having any kids.
> 
> Any advice or comments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brother,
> 
> I wouldn't make this decision based on a poll.
Click to expand...


Exactly. You are called to lead your family. So lead them. Lead them based upon wise counsel from those who know you and your situation, but not based upon an internet poll.


----------



## KSon

SolaScriptura said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ewenlin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been discussing this and reading through some threads. It is one of the major issues I hope to resolve before marriage.
> 
> I'm all for Homeschool. I feel that it will not be right to send my kids to public schools where they will be exposed to so much "outside" influence. (Will not define that specifically but I'm sure you all know what I mean) Therefore this undoubtedly requires my future wife to be a stay home mom so as to teach.
> 
> Sadly she doesn't feel this way. She has always felt God's call upon her to be a doctor and everything has been pointing that direction as well. From this point on, it seems she has her life set out for her in the medical field. It's not difficult to guess that she has zero qualms about sending our kids (if any) to public schools. She simply doesn't see any problems with that at all.
> 
> What do you guys think? We're trying to work this out right now, no we're not married yet. It would be pretty funny if we ended up never having any kids.
> 
> Any advice or comments?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brother,
> 
> I wouldn't make this decision based on a poll.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Exactly. You are called to lead your family. So lead them. Lead them based upon wise counsel from those who know you and your situation, but not based upon an internet poll.
Click to expand...


----------



## jwithnell

Should we insist on filling the roles given by the scriptures? Of course. But in many cases, the Bible falls silent long before the 1950s fantasy woman that often gets held up as the ideal. A woman could be entirely submissive to her husband and still have professional interests. Another woman might be completely miserable doing anything outside the house. Still others (like me) might occasionally resume their professional duties to benefit the family after a set back.

I think we do real damage when we insist on a one-size-fits-all for the Christian family. Homeschooling works great for many families and even for some individuals within a family. Private schools can be wonderful, or they can be terrible. I'm no fan of the public schools in general, but am incredibly grateful for the speech therapy my son is getting through one. We've home schooled every grade now through beginning college classes. It's been the right choice for most of my kids, most of the time -- but we are constantly evaluating and re-evaluating.


----------



## Rich Koster

God has not blessed us with children. If I was in my current home, with children, we would home school. However, there are parts of the U.S. that are not as liberal weiner driven, that I may let them attend for the fist few years, then switch over.


----------



## AThornquist

calgal said:


> This is a conversation that should remain between the man, the woman and her pastor and/or parents. Not strangers on the internets.




I completely agree that their pastors and parents should be active in this discussion. However, many of the folks here, strangers or not, are very wise. Their insights are worth considering, even if just a little. Ultimately Ewen and his girlfriend will need to decide what to do; until then, heeding Scripture's wisdom of seeking many counselors would certainly not be a bad thing. (And I am not speaking of the poll results but of the thoughts of experienced married folk.)


----------



## calgal

AThornquist said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a conversation that should remain between the man, the woman and her pastor and/or parents. Not strangers on the internets.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I completely agree that their pastors and parents should be active in this discussion. However, many of the folks here, strangers or not, are very wise. Their insights are worth considering, even if just a little. Ultimately Ewen and his girlfriend will need to decide what to do; until then, heeding Scripture's wisdom of seeking many counselors would certainly not be a bad thing. (And I am not speaking of the poll results but of the thoughts of experienced married folk.)
Click to expand...


Counselors who know both persons involved and have the whole story would be far more valuable. Everyone has a personal bias in one direction or the other. There are some amazing physicians who are also mommies BTW.


----------



## HokieAirman

I'm gonna hop in and hop out cause the little guy on my avatar is restless in his crib...

Definitely agree with all those who say work it out before you're married...put the kids before yourselves, and if you can't work it out, don't get married; it's not the right thing.

That said, it is NOT a wife's duty to homeschool. Often times, the husband delegates it completely to her because she has the time and expertise. Ultimately, the father bears the responsibility for his childrens' education. In my humble opinion, he should be spending time with the kids after work, or during the day if he's so blessed, teaching them life skills, and/or school subjects as well.

Take care; you have a difficult situation ahead.


----------



## kvanlaan

> Ultimately, the father bears the responsibility for his childrens' education.



Yep, oh so true. I got a back-handed compliment from my 7-year-old this past weekend, told to me by a third party. This friend of the family was talking with Izaak about life in our crazy home and he said "oh, my mom does all the work at home, my Dad just reads the Bible."  Fine by me. When my daughter draws pictures of me, it is usually with the family Bible on my lap. That is my highest calling, and an invaluable part of the children's education. 

(I do help with math, too, and I'm the plumber/carpenter/electrician but Elizabeth is your typical homeschooling supermom. Feeding and educating ten children is a task which I think would put just about any CEO in his place.)


----------



## Scot

You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
Deuteronomy 6:5-9

It's kinda hard to do this if you give your children up to the state most of the year for their education.

I highly recommend getting "Bound for Glory" and "Training Up Children" By R.C. Jr.


----------



## AThornquist

calgal said:


> Counselors who know both persons involved and have the whole story would be far more valuable.



Sure. Of course, several folks here quoted Scripture, did they not? We should consider first Scripture and then how we can conform to it, not vice versa. In other words, knowing every detail is not necessary when all people are doing is giving the man biblical food for thought. He is going to make his own decisions. 

This is simply a message board. The opinions given here should carry the weight of a message board opinion (i.e. not much). However, if in the message board the Words of God are put forth they are as real and true here as in the pulpit. 

All that said, I don't think _anyone_ here would not be hoping and expecting that he receive counsel from those who know the situation personally.


----------



## Knoxienne

Scot said:


> You shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might. And these words that I command you today shall be on your heart. You shall teach them diligently to your children, and shall talk of them when you sit in your house, and when you walk by the way, and when you lie down, and when you rise. You shall bind them as a sign on your hand, and they shall be as frontlets between your eyes. You shall write them on the doorposts of your house and on your gates.
> Deuteronomy 6:5-9
> 
> It's kinda hard to do this if you give your children up to the state most of the year for their education.
> 
> I highly recommend getting "Bound for Glory" and "Training Up Children" By R.C. Jr.



Amen. That scripture is clear.


----------



## ewenlin

Hi all, 

First of all thanks for all the replies. There have been much great counsel, more than I have thanks for. Both me and my girlfriend read this thread and appreciate every comment.

There have been much to think about and certainly more to discuss. We are not going to get married for another 2 more years at least even if we do get married. We're just working out these issues not wanting to dive into it clueless and since PB has as Andrew said, very wise men, we're here. Be assured that no decisions will be made based upon an Internet poll (that's just silly), there's still the Elders and the Pastors (whom her dad is one). 

We were kind of locked in our debate and decided to get a little PB nudge. We are very clear about our roles as Man/Woman and Husband/Wife in their theoretical precepts. The question I'm thinking of now is this, *can a woman be a MD and still fulfill her obligations as homemaker etc?* Having someone else homeschool our kids sounds terrific, it's something we have never heard of.

I should have structured the poll as Homeschool vs Institutionalized School. There is basically zero difference in terms of Christian values between public schools and private Christian schools where I live. I come from one of the most prestigious private Christian schools and it should have been "Christian" School if you know what I mean. This is why I'm so determined on homeschooling.

This brings another question. *What is required of, in terms of hours spent, in fulfilling our responsibilities in rightly teaching and raising our children?* Assuming homeschooling is the way to go. I think being a full-time homemaker is the highest calling for every woman and hold every one in the highest regard. Nevertheless I have no problems with my future wife going out to work. I do not intend to debate this here. The issue arises when kids come into the picture. Can she then be justified being a MD at the same time raising our kids? *Supposing* she works 4 hours a day and spends the rest of the time at home? 

By the way, God has been gracious in that we are both halfway through college with zero debt. Yes, she's 4th year Med student with zero student loan debt. God is GOOD eh.


----------



## Gloria

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> Yo,
> 
> *Please homeschool them babies.... If you can't do it then pay someone to do it for you. There are plenty of Reformed Presbyterian and Baptist saints who homeschool their children and would gladly take your children in as well. Look them up in your local assembly....LOL....
> 
> Tis is true that some parents shouldn't be homeschooling b/c they don't have the giftings of teaching but that doesn't mean they are without friends and collegues who do.
> 
> The most important thing is that the children are raised in God fearing and accurate schooling...Nothing american...LOL...*
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> seal



Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!


----------



## kvanlaan

> Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!



My wife did this for a missionary family in China for a year. It can work, but it does take discipline on the part of the parents, too.


----------



## Knoxienne

kvanlaan said:


> Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My wife did this for a missionary family in China for a year. It can work, but it does take discipline on the part of the parents, too.
Click to expand...


True - I think the key word here is discipline. As a modern Christian people, we lack that. And because we lack discipline and responsibility, we have all the societal problems we do. They could easily be solved if we had more discipline and practiced responsibility.


----------



## DanMcCormack

Gloria said:


> Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!



I think whoever would be paid for teaching services would need to look at state laws before signing up for such an arrangement.

In flight instruction, _only _a Certified Flight Instructor can be paid to instruct pilots. Those doing otherwise are subject to severe sanctions.

I'm sure some states link pay to various requirements.


----------



## LawrenceU

In Alabama only the parent can teach the child unless it is an occasional co-op class. Technically the parent is a teacher in that situation. If someone other than the parent is the teacher then it falls under another regulation other than the non-existent home school law which is actually a church school law. In Alabama other than parent individuals who teach your child must be certified.



> Private Tutor Option. Under § 16-28-5, the children in a home school must be instructed by a competent private tutor. Under this statute:
> a. The teacher must be state certified.
> b. The certified teacher must teach “for at least three hours a day for 140 days each calendar year, between the hours of 8:00 a.m. and 4:00 p.m.”
> c. The tutor must file with the county superintendent, a statement showing the child to be instructed, the subjects taught, and period of instruction. The tutor must keep a register of the child’s work showing daily hours of instruction and attendance and shall make such reports as the State Board of Education may require.


----------



## Honor

I think this is the best website for the legal side of things
http://www.hslda.org/Default.asp?bhcp=1


----------



## Montanablue

HSLDA basically saved my family once. They are fantastic.


----------



## Damon Rambo

My friend,

It seems that what you are looking for in a wife, and the woman you have chosen, are not compatible. Homeschooling Children and attending Medical School are mutually exclusive. 

If she truly feels that she is called by God to be a doctor, and you truly feel that you desire children, and this is not optional, then my suggestion would be to break off the engagement. Forcing her to give up her dream (as opposed to her willingly giving it up) will make her resent you. And as far as you go, the last thing you want to do is couple yourself to a woman who puts her career ahead of her family.


----------



## JoyFullMom

Seal, 

I encourage you to check the homeschool laws in FL. They can change by the time you are ready to HS, but right now, I believe you are required to either register with the state or with an umbrella school. That is how they know whom is teaching whom.... 

I can recommend HomeLife Academy - Welcome They serve as an umbrella school for FL.


----------



## greenbaggins

ewenlin said:


> Hi all,
> 
> First of all thanks for all the replies. There have been much great counsel, more than I have thanks for. Both me and my girlfriend read this thread and appreciate every comment.
> 
> There have been much to think about and certainly more to discuss. We are not going to get married for another 2 more years at least even if we do get married. We're just working out these issues not wanting to dive into it clueless and since PB has as Andrew said, very wise men, we're here. Be assured that no decisions will be made based upon an Internet poll (that's just silly), there's still the Elders and the Pastors (whom her dad is one).
> 
> We were kind of locked in our debate and decided to get a little PB nudge. We are very clear about our roles as Man/Woman and Husband/Wife in their theoretical precepts. The question I'm thinking of now is this, *can a woman be a MD and still fulfill her obligations as homemaker etc?* Having someone else homeschool our kids sounds terrific, it's something we have never heard of.
> 
> I should have structured the poll as Homeschool vs Institutionalized School. There is basically zero difference in terms of Christian values between public schools and private Christian schools where I live. I come from one of the most prestigious private Christian schools and it should have been "Christian" School if you know what I mean. This is why I'm so determined on homeschooling.
> 
> This brings another question. *What is required of, in terms of hours spent, in fulfilling our responsibilities in rightly teaching and raising our children?* Assuming homeschooling is the way to go. I think being a full-time homemaker is the highest calling for every woman and hold every one in the highest regard. Nevertheless I have no problems with my future wife going out to work. I do not intend to debate this here. The issue arises when kids come into the picture. Can she then be justified being a MD at the same time raising our kids? *Supposing* she works 4 hours a day and spends the rest of the time at home?
> 
> By the way, God has been gracious in that we are both halfway through college with zero debt. Yes, she's 4th year Med student with zero student loan debt. God is GOOD eh.



What is required? *Always more than you think* is required ahead of time. Children are energy black holes. If you have a single spare calorie of energy left, the child nabs it and says, "mine!" along with everything else in the house, of course. It may be possible for the occasional woman who is hyper organized and absolutely fanatical about schedules to do both a career and a home, but I still don't think she can do both _well_. Titus 2 seems to speak against this kind of reasoning. At any rate, I cannot stress too highly that if a woman becomes a mother, that is her highest calling aside from being a wife. If your fiance becomes a doctor, then the priority Must be like this: God, husband, children, doctor. If she is not comfortable with that order, then it won't work to have children. Not to have children in a marriage, to my mind, is against the cultural mandate of Genesis 1-2. 

Ben is certainly right in the first response. You have to sort out what your marriage is going to look like before you figure out how children are going to fit into that, although the two questions are not entirely separable, since the picture of marriage also includes how children are going to fit into the picture.


----------



## jollymommy4

In our homeschooling journey we have met many families who home school creatively. We once had friends who were both active duty military and the wife was a physician with a commitment to pay back for med school; she had a desire to be home but legally could not. 

They had four children and hired a nanny who came to stay with the children during the day. The parents came home around 4pm and home schooled from 6-10pm at night. The kids slept late in the morning until about 9 or 10am. The nanny brought the kids to our PE classes and on field trips.

In another family the Mom was also a physician, she worked three days a week while Dad was home with the children and Dad worked three days while Mom was home with them. Dad taught certain subjects on his days and Mom taught certain ones on her days. 

If you and your future wife both have a heart to home school your children there is not one right way and it can be done.


----------



## Wannabee

I'm going to pile on Lane's comments for a bit of clarity.

In his list of priorities there is an unspoken understanding that, unfortunately, is often misunderstood or set aside altogether. We simply don't think about it, but it is fundamental and necessary. Jesus is our first priority. Our second priority is Jesus in our relationship with our spouse. Our third is Jesus in our relationship with our children. Fourth is Jesus in our relationship with our church; job, etc. Jesus is all, undergirds all, is over all and in all. We are to do all things "in Christ" and "as unto Christ." In other words our first priority necessarily dictates and is inherent in all priorities. We understand this but often fail to think this way in a practical sense.

As for legalities, our first priority is the growth in godliness of our children. If laws are in the way then we are not bound by them. But, we must be prudent and gracious and strive to keep within the limits of the laws as best as we are able and without contention. Deut. 6 and Eph 6 make our responsibilities pretty clear. If government laws are in the way of raising our children in godliness then our choice is clear.

As for time invested in home education, it's both less and more than public. With public you're stuck with their schedule and their curriculum. With home education everything is a learning experience. A road trip is a geography and culture lesson. A trip to the store is social studies and any other thing that might pop up. Everything we do is a study of creation. Home education is a dynamic, not a curriculum. And you can structure it according to your vision for your children. Central to our education of our sons was teaching them how to learn. We fed them books, more books and even more books. This, and they read through the Bible in a structured fashion every 9 months. Structuring their education was not more time consuming. We found that not having to fit the public school schedule actually saved us an amazing amount of time because we no longer had to worry about being home at certain times. Our sons were trained to work around the house. At about 10 and 12 they could lay out a barbed wire fence sure and straight. They became blessings in our homes because there were not black holes into which everything was sunk (when they're young they are, as Lane pointed out), but because they became members of the family who were productive and shared in the work load. Now, with them gone, I have more work to do. It's a trade off, because before I took that time to instruct them. 
All of this is part of your vision for your family. What are your goals? Where are you going and how do you get there? Establish a vision. Make sure your vision is beyond yourself, your children and even your time. Make it multigenerational and dynastic. Build a foundation upon which your children can rise above you while establishing a similar vision so that they desire the same for their children and are equipped to promote that. With each successive generation the bar can be raised, if we establish this vision now rather than look back with regret.

May Christ bless you and your fiance as you consider your future for the glory of God.


----------



## dr_parsley

greenbaggins said:


> It may be possible for the occasional woman who is hyper organized and absolutely fanatical about schedules to do both a career and a home, but I still don't think she can do both _well_. Titus 2 seems to speak against this kind of reasoning. At any rate, I cannot stress too highly that if a woman becomes a mother, that is her highest calling aside from being a wife. If your fiance becomes a doctor, then the priority Must be like this: God, husband, children, doctor. If she is not comfortable with that order, then it won't work to have children.



Isn't that order the same for a father? God, wife, children, career. If a man can't fit together his career and his family and keep the order, then he needs to change his priorities.


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

JoyFullMom said:


> Seal,
> 
> I encourage you to check the homeschool laws in FL. They can change by the time you are ready to HS, but right now, I believe you are required to either register with the state or with an umbrella school. That is how they know whom is teaching whom....
> 
> I can recommend HomeLife Academy - Welcome They serve as an umbrella school for FL.



*Cool Beans..... Thank you....I'm not an Anarchrist but I can't stand when the state has to is all up in your kool-aid. It's none of their business who teaches my child what. The only thing they should be worried about is fixing the pot hole around the corner from me.

Can they regulate who teaches my child greek too?...LOL....

I've heard of this group before I think and they are doing an awesome service against the statist.*

Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## dr_parsley

Damon Rambo said:


> My friend,
> 
> It seems that what you are looking for in a wife, and the woman you have chosen, are not compatible. Homeschooling Children and attending Medical School are mutually exclusive.
> 
> If she truly feels that she is called by God to be a doctor, and you truly feel that you desire children, and this is not optional, then my suggestion would be to break off the engagement. Forcing her to give up her dream (as opposed to her willingly giving it up) will make her resent you. And as far as you go, the last thing you want to do is couple yourself to a woman who puts her career ahead of her family.



My wife is a doctor (working) and (contributes to) homeschooling.


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

Gloria said:


> Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!



*Sup Gloria how's the hubby? Anywho, it can be a good supplemental income for a family. However some people are bringing up state laws that may prohibit such a practice. Yet.... I'm going to need some Constitutional Proof to show where I have to report every cent I earn to the state or Federal Gov't....LOL.... I make beats as a producer. If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically.... Paleo libertarian here....LOL....*

Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## dr_parsley

DanMcCormack said:


> Gloria said:
> 
> 
> 
> Seal...This is a great point that I've honestly never thought of... Some would do it as hospitality BUT paying a homeschooling family to include your children with their children could probably help in the area of supplemental income for that family. This is also awesome way to help out single parents in the body of Christ. WTG!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think whoever would be paid for teaching services would need to look at state laws before signing up for such an arrangement.
> 
> In flight instruction, _only _a Certified Flight Instructor can be paid to instruct pilots. Those doing otherwise are subject to severe sanctions.
> 
> I'm sure some states link pay to various requirements.
Click to expand...


Some places (such as South Africa) link requirements to teaching other people's children. As soon as you include children not your own you have to register as a school, with all the consequences that follow...

I think a better way (if they can afford it) would be to employ a home-schooling nanny; perhaps an older lady.


----------



## DanMcCormack

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically....



Sadly, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution _is _the Constitution.



> The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.


----------



## sealdaSupralapsarian

DanMcCormack said:


> sealdaSupralapsarian said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution _is _the Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


*Perhaps you are a bit confused here. Where does it say I have to report all the income I make. I.E. If I cut my neighbors yard and they pay me for it. Where does it say I have to report that? Therefore if I homeschool my child and a neighbors child, where does it say I have to report that? Perhaps some have read it in there....lol...

Not to mention where does it say that Congress doesn't have to pay taxes but we do?

Also to add that the Federal Income tax was suppose to go away after the Civil War I mean....... But here it is...Still here....Thus the American people have been lied too many by these beauracrats...LOL...
*

Grace and Peace,
seal


----------



## he beholds

kvanlaan said:


> Ultimately, the father bears the responsibility for his childrens' education.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yep, oh so true. I got a back-handed compliment from my 7-year-old this past weekend, told to me by a third party. This friend of the family was talking with Izaak about life in our crazy home and he said "oh, my mom does all the work at home, my Dad just reads the Bible."  Fine by me. When my daughter draws pictures of me, it is usually with the family Bible on my lap. That is my highest calling, and an invaluable part of the children's education.
> 
> (I do help with math, too, and I'm the plumber/carpenter/electrician but Elizabeth is your typical homeschooling supermom. Feeding and educating ten children is a task which I think would put just about any CEO in his place.)
Click to expand...


OT, but our three year old thinks that Mommy loves to do dishes (which I HATE) and Daddy loves to mow the lawn (which he almost HATES). Daddy also likes to play basketball, frolf, and just "ball," while Mommy also likes to clean in "her" laundry room! Very interesting! He makes me sound like, first, a very good wife, and second, one to be pitied while her husband is playing sports all day! Meanwhile, my husband is more than generous with helping out, and I don't do any more cleaning than I need to! I think he'd have us tied with reading the Bible, but mainly because most of my reading is with the children, whereas Daddy's is usually when they're asleep.


----------



## DanMcCormack

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> DanMcCormack said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sealdaSupralapsarian said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically....
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly, the 16th Amendment to the Constitution _is _the Constitution.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> *Perhaps you are a bit confused here. Where does it say I have to report all the income I make. I.E. If I cut my neighbors yard and they pay me for it. Where does it say I have to report that? Therefore if I homeschool my child and a neighbors child, where does it say I have to report that? Perhaps some have read it in there....lol...
> 
> Not to mention where does it say that Congress doesn't have to pay taxes but we do?
> 
> Also to add that the Federal Income tax was suppose to go away after the Civil War I mean....... But here it is...Still here....Thus the American people have been lied too many by these beauracrats...LOL...
> *
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> seal
Click to expand...


The 16th Amendment was passed in 1909, 44 years after the Civil War.

Congress -- Representatives and Senators -- are liable for income tax.

Reporting income has been found by the courts to be within the constitutional intent of the 16th Amendment -- many, many times.

I'm not making this up, and I wish it were different, but it is what it is, and we can't pretend we don't have to report or pay because we _think _the law might be unconstitutional.

Our system's final arbiter of what is consititutional and what isn't has ruled -- repeatedly -- that the income tax is "constitutional."


----------



## he beholds

Maybe the distinction has to be made that the Congress has been granted the power to tax income, but Congress has not demanded that every type and amount of income be taxed or accounted for. They lawfully can, but they have not yet.


----------



## DanMcCormack

he beholds said:


> Maybe the distinction has to be made that the Congress has been granted the power to tax income, but Congress has not demanded that every type and amount of income be taxed or accounted for. They lawfully can, but they have not yet.



True, but there is no such constraint.

Which is why an audit can reveal "compensation" when no money changed hands.


----------



## Edward

sealdaSupralapsarian said:


> However some people are bringing up state laws that may prohibit such a practice. Yet.... I'm going to need some Constitutional Proof to show where I have to report every cent I earn to the state or Federal Gov't....LOL.... I make beats as a producer. If I sell a beat (I haven't yet) where in the constitution do I have to report that money to the Federal Bully...I mean Gov't... reporting the income earned.... I believe that is quite ridiculous and highly unlawful both Constituationally and especially Biblically.... Paleo libertarian here....LOL....[/FONT][/SIZE][/COLOR][/B]
> 
> Grace and Peace,
> seal



Interesting exegesis of Mark 12:14-17 and Romans 13:1-8.


----------



## ewenlin

Thanks for the posts guys. Time to think about it more.


----------

