# My son has been invited to an Anglican service by a friend....



## JoeFish

....and I'm having a problem deciding about whether or not to let him go, my gut instinct and conviction is to say no.
This particular Anglican group has a children's meeting on a Sunday afternoon where loud rave music is played and the kids sit around on sofas "chilling out" and eating doughnuts while smoke machines pump out whatever it is that smoke machines pump out. 
One of the messages that was recently given to the children was to tell them that it's best to not tell people about Hell and the consequences of sin when you are talking to them of your faith.
I have issues with the Anglican organisation on many points, mainly their official view on homosexual and lesbian marriage and this awful ecumenical / multi faith attitude that I hear in so many of it's members.
Would you let your child go to such a place?

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## NaphtaliPress

Seems to me these are clear.
1 Corinthians 15:33
Exodus 20:8.

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## JoeFish

NaphtaliPress said:


> Seems to me these are clear.
> 1 Corinthians 15:33
> Exodus 20:8.



Very clear indeed! thanks. 
My son is a Christian and finds this situation very difficult as he loves his friend, I'm not completely sure that his friend is a Christian but his parents are. 
The parents seem to think it's just great to get kids along to church, any church, whereas I strongly disagree with that premise. 
I suppose my main concern as his Dad is how my son feels in this situation, but we pray together every day and study the Bible and he is very responsive to what the Lord reveals to him.
Should we refuse invites from friends though if we are hoping that they might accept an invite from us one day?


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## NaphtaliPress

JoeFish said:


> Should we refuse invites from friends though if we are hoping that they might accept an invite from us one day?


I wouldn't say that, I simply gave my opinion given the crowd, activity and the time. You will have to weigh each invite.


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## LilyG

It is never a good thing to send your child off to a false church to save hurt feelings. 

No way.

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## Edward

JoeFish said:


> I have issues with the Anglican organisation on many points, mainly their official view on homosexual and lesbian marriage



Well, if you give us more clues about where you are and what Anglicans you are talking about, we might be able to give you a more informed answer. There are Anglican churches that are OK, Anglican churches that aren't OK, and Anglican groups that don't qualify as churches, but as synagogues of Satan. 

CoE, I'd say "no way". The local Anglican megachurch, I'd no have issue with a teen negotiating an exchange visit.


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## RamistThomist

Like Edward said, if it is a CoE church, no way. ACNA or AMiA are usually okay, but it depends on diocese and church. In which case it wouldn't be too different from the moderately conservative SBC church.


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## JoeFish

Thanks for the responses!
As far as I know it's Church of England, I live in England, I don't really know much about the differences within Anglican churches to be honest.


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## JoeFish

BayouHuguenot said:


> Like Edward said, if it is a CoE church, no way. ACNA or AMiA are usually okay, but it depends on diocese and church. In which case it wouldn't be too different from the moderately conservative SBC church.



I've not even heard of ACNA, AMiA or SBC before??


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## JoeFish

Forget everything I said, I've just found their website and it's not even Anglican! Sorry folks! It used to be C of E but was sold in 1998 and is now owned by the "New Frontiers" network??? Anyone heard of these guys? They're calling the meetings "LoveChurch" which sounds and looks dreadful.


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## Berean

A link to the "LoveChurch" website would be helpful. Is this it? Or another location?

https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/locations/lovechurch-bournemouth/

It would also be helpful if you would create your signature in your profile so that we'd know who you are. Thanks.

https://www.puritanboard.com/help/signature/


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## JoeFish

Berean said:


> A link to the "LoveChurch" website would be helpful. Is this it? Or another location?
> 
> https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/locations/lovechurch-bournemouth/
> It would also be helpful if you would create your signature in your profile so that we'd know who you are. Thanks.
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/help/signature/


Sorry I don't understand what you mean! I'm not too good with computers, how do I create a signature?


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## JoeFish

Berean said:


> A link to the "LoveChurch" website would be helpful. Is this it? Or another location?
> 
> Yes, that's it! sorry but I don't know how to add links yet.
> 
> https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/locations/lovechurch-bournemouth/
> 
> It would also be helpful if you would create your signature in your profile so that we'd know who you are. Thanks.
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/help/signature/


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## JoeFish

Berean said:


> A link to the "LoveChurch" website would be helpful. Is this it? Or another location?
> 
> https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/locations/lovechurch-bournemouth/
> 
> It would also be helpful if you would create your signature in your profile so that we'd know who you are. Thanks.
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/help/signature/


I think I have just created a signature.

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## Berean

JoeFish said:


> how do I create a signature?



Go to the top of this page in the upper right where it says your user name, JoeFish. Click on that and then in the dropdown box on the left will be "Signature". Click on that.


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## JoeFish

Berean said:


> Go to the top of this page in the upper right where it says your user name, JoeFish. Click on that and then in the dropdown box on the left will be "Signature". Click on that.


Thank you, and thanks for your patience.

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## Edward

Thanks for the signature. 



JoeFish said:


> I've not even heard of ACNA, AMiA or SBC before??



In the US, the Anglicans tend to be the good guys who broke off from the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church is the equivalent of the worst that you'd find in the CoE, and in communion with them (all though I have friends in the Episcopal church who are personally of the highest character). When the moderates split off from the Episcopal church, they affiliated with various foreign bishops resulting in several sub-denominations at this point, thus the alphabet soup above. 

SBC is the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical group in the US. Almost always socially conservative (with a few outliers) but without a unified theology or worship style. Generally what would be considered very low church.


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## JoeFish

Edward said:


> Thanks for the signature.
> 
> 
> 
> In the US, the Anglicans tend to be the good guys who broke off from the Episcopal Church. The Episcopal Church is the equivalent of the worst that you'd find in the CoE, and in communion with them (all though I have friends in the Episcopal church who are personally of the highest character). When the moderates split off from the Episcopal church, they affiliated with various foreign bishops resulting in several sub-denominations at this point, thus the alphabet soup above.
> 
> SBC is the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest evangelical group in the US. Almost always socially conservative (with a few outliers) but without a unified theology or worship style. Generally what would be considered very low church.


Thanks for explaining all that, seems pretty confusing. 
I have found out (as mentioned above) that the church my son has been invited to isn't even an Anglican church, it used to be but a neo-charismatic organisation called New Frontiers own it now.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

JoeFish said:


> I think I have just created a signature.


I updated it to conform with the rules of our site.

https://www.puritanboard.com/help/signature/

Feel free to modify it accordingly but in keeping with the above.

Let me also say, welcome aboard, Joe! We are looking forward to many fruitful discussions with you in the future.

Our site contains a wealth of edifying and informative content. For starters, I recommend you start at the following link to get a sense of the basic ground rules:
https://www.puritanboard.com/help/terms

Then review this:
https://www.puritanboard.com/help/9th-commandment/

Lastly, if you are so inclined, after you have made 25 posts, you can post something about yourself in the following Members Only thread that may be of interest to others. It is a running commentary on the interests and goings on of our members that is not viewable by non-members, nor searchable by internet search bots:

https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/who-are-you-guys-tell-us-a-little-about-yourself.91462/


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## JoeFish

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> I updated it to conform with the rules of our site.
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/help/signature/
> 
> Feel free to modify it accordingly but in keeping with the above.


Thanks for the help, I'm still finding my way around here!


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## Edward

JoeFish said:


> I have found out (as mentioned above) that the church my son has been invited to isn't even an Anglican church, it used to be but a neo-charismatic organisation called New Frontiers own it now.



No, parsing the website, I think you may have been more right than wrong. 

It looks like New Frontiers bought the building from the Anglicans in 1988, remodeled, but sold it to this group in 2016 (after having leased it to them in 2014), with New Frontiers moving to a purpose built facility. https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/locations/lovechurch-bournemouth/

Then it gets confusing. It appears that the church was started under the auspices of Bishop Tim Dankin "In 2014, at the invitation of Bishop Tim Dakin, Tim and Debi Matthews moved from HTB London to Bournemouth." https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/our-story/ 

A bit more research shows that Tim Dankin is, in fact, the CoE Bishop. "He has been the Bishop of Winchester since 2011 and is ex officio a Member of the House of Lords. "
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Dakin 

*BUT* he appears to be one of the good guys in the CoE. And he may have set this up outside the CoE structure so that they would have a better chance of preaching the gospel. 

I'm concerned that they don't have a "what we believe" section on their website that I could find. 

There are many of us here on the PB that would probably not be happy with their worship style, but based on what I've seen, I'm not sure I'd be willing to denounce them without additional research.

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## JoeFish

Edward said:


> No, parsing the website, I think you may have been more right than wrong.
> 
> It looks like New Frontiers bought the building from the Anglicans in 1988, remodeled, but sold it to this group in 2016 (after having leased it to them in 2014), with New Frontiers moving to a purpose built facility. https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/locations/lovechurch-bournemouth/
> 
> Then it gets confusing. It appears that the church was started under the auspices of Bishop Tim Dankin "In 2014, at the invitation of Bishop Tim Dakin, Tim and Debi Matthews moved from HTB London to Bournemouth." https://www.lovechurch.org.uk/our-story/
> 
> A bit more research shows that Tim Dankin is, in fact, the CoE Bishop. "He has been the Bishop of Winchester since 2011 and is ex officio a Member of the House of Lords. "
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Dakin
> 
> *BUT* he appears to be one of the good guys in the CoE. And he may have set this up outside the CoE structure so that they would have a better chance of preaching the gospel.
> 
> I'm concerned that they don't have a "what we believe" section on their website that I could find.
> 
> There are many of us here on the PB that would probably not be happy with their worship style, but based on what I've seen, I'm not sure I'd be willing to denounce them without additional research.


Thanks for the reply!
I also didn't like that I couldn't find a "what we believe" section, it is very confusing and I have a lot of concerns about it.
I think I will go along just one time with my son and check it out.

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## timfost

JoeFish said:


> I live in England





JoeFish said:


> organi*s*ation



Now I understand. 

Welcome!


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## Edward

JoeFish said:


> I think I will go along just one time with my son and check it out.



Please let us know what you find. My guess is that it will be fairly inoffensive, watered down theology for folks who aren't ready for meat. I doubt that there will be any heresy. 

But I could be wrong.


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## Jack K

JoeFish said:


> I think I will go along just one time with my son and check it out.



That sounds like good parenting.

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## Jeff Low

I personally find it a good teaching opportunity when we get to visit different churches when we travel. While the first option is to visit reformed churches, I still find it a beneficial experience to bring the family to attend a traditional Catholic or Eastern Orthodox service when the former is not available in the town or city. 

Having sat through the said services, the theology and church history lessons stick much more vividly, and the family gains a deeper appreciation of why we worship the way we do in our church, especially against the backdrop of the other Christian traditions.

That said, I still stay away from charismatic worship services, as I find them offensive at every point. 


Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk

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## TylerRay

JoeFish said:


> This particular Anglican group has a children's meeting on a Sunday afternoon where loud rave music is played and the kids sit around on sofas "chilling out" and eating doughnuts while smoke machines pump out whatever it is that smoke machines pump out.


That certainly doesn't sound like an environment that would be conducive to Sabbath-keeping. I'm glad you're concerned about your son in the situation; you should also be concerned about the sanctity of the Lord's Day. If you send your son off to this place, he will be surrounded by temptations to break the Sabbath, and I doubt that many of the attendees there care about the Lord's Day at all.



JoeFish said:


> My son is a Christian and finds this situation very difficult


It's precious to hear that your son is concerned about the situation. I'll pray for both of you as you try to be a good witness to your son's friend. Just remember--compromising on worship and the Sabbath is never a good witness.

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## JoeFish

timfost said:


> Now I understand.
> 
> Welcome!


Many thanks!


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## JoeFish

Edward said:


> Please let us know what you find. My guess is that it will be fairly inoffensive, watered down theology for folks who aren't ready for meat. I doubt that there will be any heresy.
> 
> But I could be wrong.


I'll keep you posted!


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## JoeFish

Jack K said:


> That sounds like good parenting.


Thank you!


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## JoeFish

Jeff Low said:


> I personally find it a good teaching opportunity when we get to visit different churches when we travel. While the first option is to visit reformed churches, I still find it a beneficial experience to bring the family to attend a traditional Catholic or Eastern Orthodox service when the former is not available in the town or city.
> 
> Having sat through the said services, the theology and church history lessons stick much more vividly, and the family gains a deeper appreciation of why we worship the way we do in our church, especially against the backdrop of the other Christian traditions.
> 
> That said, I still stay away from charismatic worship services, as I find them offensive at every point.
> 
> 
> Gesendet von iPhone mit Tapatalk


Yes, I try to avoid charismatic meetings as you would the plague! I had many years of bad experiences within those places. Good to be free of it now, thank the Lord!

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## JoeFish

TylerRay said:


> That certainly doesn't sound like an environment that would be conducive to Sabbath-keeping. I'm glad you're concerned about your son in the situation; you should also be concerned about the sanctity of the Lord's Day. If you send your son off to this place, he will be surrounded by temptations to break the Sabbath, and I doubt that many of the attendees there care about the Lord's Day at all.
> 
> 
> It's precious to hear that your son is concerned about the situation. I'll pray for both of you as you try to be a good witness to your son's friend. Just remember--compromising on worship and the Sabbath is never a good witness.


I appreciate your prayers and advice, thank you!

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## beloved7

Personally no I wouldn't let either of my children go there with a friend, but my kids are both relativey young. Even still, I'm very particular about my kids going to church with me and only me, at our congregation and only our congregation, every Sunday. It's not negotionable.


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## JoeFish

beloved7 said:


> Personally no I wouldn't let either of my children go there with a friend, but my kids are both relativey young. Even still, I'm very particular about my kids going to church with me and only me, at our congregation and only our congregation, every Sunday. It's not negotionable.



No, I certainly won't be letting him go without me, not by any means. It's the fact that his friend whom he loves goes there and has invited him to go to one of their services, that is the difficult element for me.


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## beloved7

JoeFish said:


> No, I certainly won't be letting him go without me, not by any means. It's the fact that his friend whom he loves goes there and has invited him to go to one of their services, that is the difficult element for me.


That's certainly understandable. I'm glad that if he does go, you'll be going along with him. You're a good dad.

I understand it's a difficult spot, though personally I have zero trepidation telling my kids that they're to attend worship in our congregation and our congregation only. As a compromise I'd suggest they bring the friend to our church instead. If the friend protests, I'll fully take the blame.


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## LilyG

JoeFish said:


> Thank you!



I just have to mention that your way of writing (esp. with the exclamation points) reminds me of my very sweet dad. :-D

LOL


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## Reformed Covenanter

There are still plenty of sound, gospel preaching congregations in the Church of England such as St Ebbe's, Oxford. Most of the CofE is a train-wreck, but there are still a lot of good places within it.


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## JoeFish

I telephoned the number of the "LoveChurch" website to ask 2 questions, I was able to speak to one of the pastor/leader/elders?? My first question was 

"why can I not find any info on your website about what you believe i.e 
a statement of faith?" 

I was told that it is because they prefer people to come along and get to know what they are like rather than stating anything particular on the website about beliefs.
My second question was

"what is the view of your church with regard to homosexual marriage?"

I was told that the leaders in their church had been "asked" to not comment on that particular issue as it was so divisive!

He did sound uncomfortable that I'd asked the question, in my opinion!

He added that at their church they love and welcome everybody, he also made a point of telling me that the gospel is preached every week.

All sounds a bit wishy washy to me but I am going to go along with my son and see for myself this Sunday afternoon.

Thank you all here on the forum for your input and I appreciate any prayers for my son and I that you may have or will pray.

Expect an update on Sunday evening!

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## JoeFish

Reformed Covenanter said:


> There are still plenty of sound, gospel preaching congregations in the Church of England such as St Ebbe's, Oxford. Most of the CofE is a train-wreck, but there are still a lot of good places within it.


I shall let you know if I experience a "train wreck" or hear the gospel proclaimed.


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## JoeFish

LilyG said:


> I just have to mention that your way of writing (esp. with the exclamation points) reminds me of my very sweet dad. :-D
> 
> LOL


I've never thought about it before!
Many thanks!!


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## beloved7

JoeFish said:


> I telephoned the number of the "LoveChurch" website to ask 2 questions, I was able to speak to one of the pastor/leader/elders?? My first question was
> 
> "why can I not find any info on your website about what you believe i.e
> a statement of faith?"
> 
> I was told that it is because they prefer people to come along and get to know what they are like rather than stating anything particular on the website about beliefs.
> My second question was
> 
> "what is the view of your church with regard to homosexual marriage?"
> 
> I was told that the leaders in their church had been "asked" to not comment on that particular issue as it was so divisive!
> 
> He did sound uncomfortable that I'd asked the question, in my opinion!
> 
> He added that at their church they love and welcome everybody, he also made a point of telling me that the gospel is preached every week.
> 
> All sounds a bit wishy washy to me but I am going to go along with my son and see for myself this Sunday afternoon.
> 
> Thank you all here on the forum for your input and I appreciate any prayers for my son and I that you may have or will pray.
> 
> Expect an update on Sunday evening!



Worse case scenario, you can still use it as a learning opportunity afterwards about different churches, doctrine, etc.


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## Tom Hart

Jeff Low said:


> I personally find it a good teaching opportunity when we get to visit different churches when we travel. While the first option is to visit reformed churches, I still find it a beneficial experience to bring the family to attend a traditional Catholic or Eastern Orthodox service when the former is not available in the town or city.
> 
> Having sat through the said services, the theology and church history lessons stick much more vividly, and the family gains a deeper appreciation of why we worship the way we do in our church, especially against the backdrop of the other Christian traditions.
> 
> That said, I still stay away from charismatic worship services, as I find them offensive at every point.



I don't wish to derail the thread, but I struggle to see how a Roman Catholic mass, with all the blasphemy that it entails, can serve as any replacement for Lord's Day worship. Nor can I understand how it is better than charismatic worship. I would avoid a mass like the plague.

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## JoeFish

Tom Hart said:


> I don't wish to derail the thread, but I struggle to see how a Roman Catholic mass, with all the blasphemy that it entails, can serve as any replacement for Lord's Day worship. Nor can I understand how it is better than charismatic worship. I would avoid a mass like the plague.



I've noticed a lot of similarities between the Roman Catholics and Charismatics 

for example consider the following:

Catholics claim to have visions of angels and Mary.
Charismatics claim to have visions of angels and Jesus (never Mary)

Catholics adore many saints - Anthony, Peter, Joseph etc...
Charismatics adore many preachers - Hinn, Ostein, Cerullo etc...

Catholics have relics such as wood from the cross, Mary's hair and visit "holy" sites.
Charismatics have wood from stages where so called "great annointings" took place and visit the graves of their favourite preachers etc...

Does anyone else agree on these points?
I personally saw all the above mentioned things take place when I was involved in the Charismatic movement.


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## TylerRay

JoeFish said:


> I've noticed a lot of similarities between the Roman Catholics and Charismatics
> 
> for example consider the following:
> 
> Catholics claim to have visions of angels and Mary.
> Charismatics claim to have visions of angels and Jesus (never Mary)
> 
> Catholics adore many saints - Anthony, Peter, Joseph etc...
> Charismatics adore many preachers - Hinn, Ostein, Cerullo etc...
> 
> Catholics have relics such as wood from the cross, Mary's hair and visit "holy" sites.
> Charismatics have wood from stages where so called "great annointings" took place and visit the graves of their favourite preachers etc...
> 
> Does anyone else agree on these points?
> I personally saw all the above mentioned things take place when I was involved in the Charismatic movement.


That's right. Pentecostalism is basically Romanism made over.

Their ministers bless objects in order to infuse miraculous power in them. Ever heard of a "prayer cloth?" Consider also their use of anointing oils.

Both groups are very synergistic in their view of justification, and hold that men can be truly saved and then fall away.

Both groups have a strong emphasis on continuing revelation through dreams and visions, as you said. Also, in both groups, the continuing revelation tends to take the place of the Scriptures.

Neither group holds to a Scripturally regulated form of worship. Whatever extra-biblical revelation dictates is what they follow. So, there's no problem with drama in worship, making up holy days, etc.

Roman Catholicism may be more highbrow, but the two are very similar. It's no wonder that Pentecostalism has caught on among Latin Americans to the extent that it has. It won't surprise me when Pentecostal leaders begin to push for reunification with Rome. Rome, for their part, has already made concessions to the charismatic movement.


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## JoeFish

TylerRay said:


> That's right. Pentecostalism is basically Romanism made over.
> 
> Their ministers bless objects in order to infuse miraculous power in them. Ever heard of a "prayer cloth?" Consider also their use of anointing oils.
> 
> Both groups are very synergistic in their view of justification, and hold that men can be truly saved and then fall away.
> 
> Both groups have a strong emphasis on continuing revelation through dreams and visions, as you said. Also, in both groups, the continuing revelation tends to take the place of the Scriptures.
> 
> Neither group holds to a Scripturally regulated form of worship. Whatever extra-biblical revelation dictates is what they follow. So, there's no problem with drama in worship, making up holy days, etc.
> 
> Roman Catholicism may be more highbrow, but the two are very similar. It's no wonder that Pentecostalism has caught on among Latin Americans to the extent that it has. It won't surprise me when Pentecostal leaders begin to push for reunification with Rome. Rome, for their part, has already made concessions to the charismatic movement.



Thanks for the reply, the things you say are very interesting indeed. They are so very similar in content and behaviour, the more I think about it the more obvious it becomes! And yes, I had heard of prayer cloths, a certain televangelist that I had the displeasure of being exposed to sells them for a "love gift" of $50 or more.


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## Cedarbay

Imagine being a part of the charismatic renewal within the RCC. I am daily thankful for our Lord's freeing me of both!

Praying for you guys, Joe.


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## JoeFish

Cedarbay said:


> Imagine being a part of the charismatic renewal within the RCC. I am daily thankful for our Lord's freeing me of both!
> 
> Praying for you guys, Joe.


That is something to be truly grateful for!
Thank you for your prayers.


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## Cedarbay

JoeFish said:


> That is something to be truly grateful for!
> Thank you for your prayers.


After reading what the pastor told you about statement of faith, etc., I have major reservations about you going at all. His aloofness could mean it is cult-like and they hope to nab a person over time. A single exposure for your son, if he is with a friend and even with your presence with him, could pose a huge problem for you. I would face your son's disappoint and decline the invitation for good. This mother's heart feels very protective of you and your son today.

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## beloved7

Cedarbay said:


> After reading what the pastor told you about statement of faith, etc., a have major reservations about you going at all. His aloofness could mean it is cult-like and they hope to nab a person over time. A single exposure for your son, if he is with a friend and even with your presence with him, could pose a huge problem for you. I would face your son's disappoint and decline the invitation for good. This mother's heart feels very protective of you and your son today.


I second this. Though the fact that you will be going with him for discrnment purposes does make the whole situation much more palatable, the safest play here is to decline the invitation entirely. The Christian walk, as we all know, is comprised of self denial and mortification. Dissapointing friends is just the tip of the iceberg. We're to live for His glory.


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## Edward

Cedarbay said:


> His aloofness could mean it is cult-like and they hope to nab a person over time.



And it could just mean they don't want to have to deal with persecution.


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## beloved7

Edward said:


> And it could just mean they don't want to have to deal with persecution.


Or they are theologically wishy washey and don't even know what they profess to believe. When discerning other churches all we have to go on is profession and fruit.


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## Cedarbay

Edward said:


> And it could just mean they don't want to have to deal with persecution.


What would that indicate to you then?


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## Tom Hart

Is it not possible to attend some mid-week prayer meeting or Bible study in order to get a feel for the kind of church it is? It just seems to me to be a bit of a shame to risk wasting a perfectly good Sunday morning when you could be joyfully worshipping at your own church.


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## beloved7

Tom Hart said:


> Is it not possible to attend some mid-week prayer meeting or Bible study in order to get a feel for the kind of church it is? It just seems to me to be a bit of a shame to risk wasting a perfectly good Sunday morning when you could be joyfully worshipping at your own church.



This is also a very good point. You do, in my opinion, owe it to your own congregation to worship there whenever possible in my humble opinion. Also you don't want to waste a whole Sunday's worship, fellowship, hearing the Word etc


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## JoeFish

Thanks for all the responses and the concern shown!
We won't be missing our own fellowship meeting as the invite is for 4pm as that is when this particular place has a youth service.
I have decided to go this once and observe carefully what goes on, my wife will be with us too so my son will be protected on both the left and the right.
I'll let you know how it went.

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## Edward

Cedarbay said:


> What would that indicate to you then?



Well, they don't have a Bill of Rights over there, and militant homosexuals run rampant in Europe with the government forces generally backing them. 

As for them being cult like, I suppose one could say they are more willing to try to get folks in to here the message than they are in trying to keep sinners out.


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## JoeFish

Edward said:


> Well, they don't have a Bill of Rights over there, and militant homosexuals run rampant in Europe with the government forces generally backing them.
> 
> As for them being cult like, I suppose one could say they are more willing to try to get folks in to here the message than they are in trying to keep sinners out.



We do have a "Bill Of Rights" which was given Royal assent by King William III in 1689 and it is still quite frequently used in legal matters. And not forgetting our "Magna Carta" of 1215 which although it has very little power legally is still very dear in the hearts of many English folk as a turning point in our liberty as it was the first attempt to limit the powers of Royalty.


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## Edward

JoeFish said:


> We do have a "Bill Of Rights" which was given Royal assent by King William III in 1689 and it is still quite frequently used in legal matters.



Is that why I keep reading about street preachers being arrested for presenting the whole of the gospel? 

As for the Magna Carta - it was about transferring power from the crown to the Barons, not to the people.


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## beloved7

JoeFish said:


> We do have a "Bill Of Rights" which was given Royal assent by King William III in 1689 and it is still quite frequently used in legal matters. And not forgetting our "Magna Carta" of 1215 which although it has very little power legally is still very dear in the hearts of many English folk as a turning point in our liberty as it was the first attempt to limit the powers of Royalty.


 A "Bill of Rights" that is given is in no way shape or form comparable to the American Bill of Rights. We took ours.


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## JoeFish

Well, here we are safe and sound, we survived the meeting and the Lord certainly brought something positive out of it for us.

The meeting itself was a charismatic rock concert type of thing, flashing lights, average band, smoke machine, doughnuts, cold pizza and Coca Cola. So not even remotely anything like a Church meeting, although I'm sure that many would disagree with me on that point.

It made my wife and I grateful that we have been freed from the charismatic movement.

Most importantly all my concerns as a father were laid to rest with regard to my son. He met his friend there who interestingly enough looked as if he could care less about the meeting himself, they sat together whilst my wife and I sat on the outside edge with a direct view of my son.

I had said to him before hand that he was not to feel pressured by anyone or anything to pray, sing or say anything he was not comfortable with and under no circumstances was he to let anyone "pray" for him.

There was lots of singing/shouting and people cheering and whooping, we didn't even see a Bible anywhere in the place.

I won't go into more detail about the actual event as it will prove to be tedious, suffice to say that it was no different to any another charismatic meeting I have ever seen before.

Back to my son - I watched him like a hawk from the edge of the hall and he generally looked bemused and amused by what he was seeing and hearing, bear in mind he has never been exposed to anything remotely charismatic before.

Upon leaving I asked him what he thought and was glad to hear him say "it's weird Dad", I asked if he would want to go along again and was met with a resounding "no thanks", he asked why people were doing "aeroplane arms" which made me laugh as I'd not heard it referred to like that before.

So all in all I am glad we went along as he now knows what all the fuss was about and has a good idea of the errors involved in charismania.

I'm sure that some of the Lord's people were in that crowd and hopefully one day He will set them free from the madness of it all as He has my wife and I.

Reactions: Like 4


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## beloved7

I'm glad everything went well, sounds like your son has a good head on his shoulders. Surely a reflection of you. Now your son will have more of an appreciation for biblical churches and a lesson on discernment.

Reactions: Like 1


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