# Thoughts on Distance Education & The Ministry



## JOwen (Dec 13, 2004)

Some of My Thoughts on Distance Education and the Ministry

Formal pedagogical forms is a fancy way of describing the science of teaching by way of lectures, written assignments, and examinations (Whytock 6). Traditionally this has taken place in classrooms under the supervision of in-house professors under the auspice of a brick and mortar institution. The question that has arisen in the last 20 years is, "œCan formal education be done properly at a distance, or is distance education a second rate substitute for a true education?"

As a student minister who has spent 3 years in brick and mortar institutions and three years doing distance education, I would like to offer a few thoughts regarding the benefit of distance education.

First, let me begin by saying that distance education is not for everyone. Brick and mortar schools have their place and should be utilized when needed. Further, if you are not highly self motivated with a mature and realistic outlook on the criteria for completing a degree at home, it is better to stop before you begin and head off to a good brick and mortar seminary. Distance Education should not be a shortcut to a degree. Any school worth its salt will require the same level of academic standards from its distance students as it will from its resident students. This will eliminate most prospects right off the bat because they need the structure of the brick and mortar pedagogical method to complete their work.

There are several reasons that are presumed to be the best reasons for going to a brick and mortar school. I would like to take the top 3 and provide an alternate viewpoint from someone who has worked and has succeeded to some degree under both systems.

Fallacy #1: Brick and mortar schools are better because live lectures are better than recorded.

Live lectures are only as good as the lecturer. Not all brick and mortar schools have a John Murray, or a Morton Smith to teach Systematic Theology 501. Countless schools have good teachers, but the best are often far away in other parts of the world, or worse yet, deceased! A live lecture from a run of the mill teacher is no substitute for a taped lecture from Westminster´s late John Murray, Knox´s Robert L. Reymond, or Pittsburgh´s John Gerstner. To transcribe theological thought from the lectures of one of the Churches brightest lights is a far better way of learning than from any middling college professor. Besides, one can´t stop a live class, reflect on the professors´ words, rewind what the professor said and then run to your private library and cross reference the quotation just given. With distance education you can.

Fallacy #2: Brick and mortar schools offer personal interaction with the professor.

It has been my experience and the experience of many of my peers that this is simply not the case. With the high demands of the academic life in school, reading assignments, essays, labs, and examinations, coupled with the demands of a part time job (mine was full time!), and a family, personal interaction with a professor was a fairy-tale dream concocted by the marketing strategist of whatever school you are attending. Besides, most professors do not hang around after the class because of the great demand on their own schedule. In most schools the professor that just lectured needs to juggle his own very busy schedule to do justice to the demands on his life. This is why he never read your term paper on "œNapoleon" in your history class and why a fourth year teachering assistant did. When he does have a free moment you are clamoring with 45 other students who also want his attention. Most people who speak of personal interaction with the profs are speaking idealistically, not realistically. 

Fallacy #3: Brick and mortar schools offer a peer to peer atmosphere where students can sharpen each other.

In my three years of brick and mortar education here is a typical day. Up at 5:00 am to complete the homework I could not complete the night before even though I was up till 2:00 am. Rush out the door with a piece of dry toast and a juice box, fly down the married dorm stairs and cross over to my first class. At 8:45 am I stop at the cafeteria for a snack and run to the other side of the campus for my next class. At 10:30 am, I race home to read the assignment for my afternoon class and sleep for 15 min before my 12:45 class. After this class I stop by the library to pick up some text books for an assignment only to find out that all 70 text books have been signed out by other students. I then quickly put my name down for a back order and slip off to my last class. At 3:30 pm I rush home, change my clothes and run once again across campus grounds to the Restaurant where I will spend the next 8 Â½ hours waiting tables. Fortunately I am home by 12:30 am so I can spend at least the nest 4 hours doing homework. This was a typical day. Weekends were spent working and catching up from the week before. Anyone who thinks that a student can spend time with his peers is probably very rich and very smart. How one can pay for a $50,000 education, get good grades and spend time with peers discussing the finer points of eschatology is beyond me. Besides, any spare time I might have should be spent with my family not my peers.

There are more fallacies to debunk such as the benefit of a massive library, and the prestige of graduating from a "top school", but the ones I listed are the main ones. Now I would like to give you several reasons for student ministers to do their degree at home.

Advantage #1: You get true one-on-one training.

Under a proper distance education model the institution will require that the student have a mentor or tutor, preferably the student´s own pastor or another local minister. Now the student gains the academic knowledge needed coupled with true beneficial interchange with an experienced pastor. In my situation my minister and mentor Rev. D. Beattie passed away during my training. But before he did I had the pleasure of learning at the feet of a masterful pastor/theologian who spent 25 years in one pulpit. I had hundreds of hours of one-on-one session where he poured out a quarter of a century of pastoral wisdom and knowledge. No seminary professor, no matter how efficient he is with his time, can compare to this model. Since his death I have found the next best thing in another local area minister.

Advantage #2: You never leave your local Church.

Most men who are pursuing the ministry leave for seminary and never return to their local body. So often the cream rises to the top and is whisked away never to be seen again. Instead of the local congregation benefiting form the gifting of the individual, they are left with a real void. Often, the same gifts that caused the church and student to look toward the ministry in the first place became a true benefit to the local body in zeal, evangelism, dedication, etc. Now, many of the very best prospects in the local church community are somewhere in Delaware!

Advantage #3: You get to experience in reality what the school teaches theoretically.

Isn't it is strange that we think that to gain a true understanding of the Church we must leave it. Isn't the Church the best place to learn about the Church? Spiritual maturity, godly humility, tending to the flock, experiential preaching, mature governance, and care of souls cannot be taught on a blackboard or overhead projector. I can learn what John Murray said on the Covenant of Works just as well in my study as any classroom. Putting to memory the Shorter Catechism, the WCF, the doctrine of John Calvin, and John Owen is the easy part. The hard part is self sacrifice, love for the brethren, spiritual discernment, etc. What I am saying is while at seminary one may learn how to identify objective genitive Greek verbs and be able to display how Warfield´s position on textual variants differs from Hort´s, one will never learn the intangible spiritual qualification of a minister in such an artificial environment. John Frame suggests that more often than not this artificial environment does not prepare the new graduated scholar for the spiritual duty of shepherding God´s flock. "œSeminaries not only "˜frequently refuse to do the work of the church´; they also tend to undo it", by making scholars not shepherds (Frame. "œA Proposal for a New Seminary. Journal of Pastoral Practice." p.10). 

Advantage #4: You gain hands-on training.

John Frame said in the same essay,

"In the early days of American Protestantism, the training of ministerial candidates was carried out by pastors of churches. A young man feeling a call of God to the ministry would associate himself with a church pastor, receive training from him, participate in the work of the parish, and perhaps even live in the minister´s home. I´m not sure why, but eventually this system was felt to be inadequate" (Frame. "œA Proposal for a New Seminary. Journal of Pastoral Practice." p.10). 

Frame goes on to remind the reader that seminaries are a convention of the church, created to fill in the gap created by churches that are not fulfilling their Biblical mandate of discipleship. He sites "œold" Princeton Seminary board member Rev. Gardiner Spring who contends that in his day the parish-trained minister far surpassed the seminary trained scholar. That is quite a statement from both Frame and Spring - two seminarians (p.11).

The truth is the training of a minister is a ministry of the Church, not the seminary. How a Ph.D. who has spent little to no time labouring in the pulpit of a congregation, catechizing the young, visiting the sick, and comforting the widowed, deserves the honor of teaching the intricate details of tending to the Vineyard of Christ is beyond me. It seems to me that the qualified teachers of the Word are the teachers of the Church. Pastoral experience has given way to "œwall worshipping" men who are not seasoned pastors, but Ph.D.´s, D.Min´s and Th.D´s. Frame comments, "œOver the years, however, it has become less and less possible for a man to be an outstanding pastor and an outstanding scholar; thus seminaries, forced to choose, have inevitably picked the latter" (p.11).

Distance Education plus an active Presbytery/Session is the best model of training in my estimation. For instance, I am a divinity student in my last year of training. To date I have preached on the Lord's Day 261 times (in my church and others), to members of Presbytery 7 times, conducted 96 catechism classes, conducted 134 Bible studies and been on dozens of visitations. Had I gone away to complete my training I would have missed out on 3-4 years of hands-on training before ordination, and I would spend the first 5 years of my ministry gaining the experience I would have had as a student under the Distance Education model. 

Advantage #5: You are under you Presbytery's supervision.

Who better to know your greatest strengths and weaknesses than your presbytery? If the Lord has deemed fit for the Church to train its ministers then why not utilize technology and the presbytery´s experience together? When it is time to go to your first charge as a pastor the recommendation does not come from a seminary professor who only has a limited knowledge of your ability, but a session and presbytery who are intimately conversant with you as a student.

Advantage #6: You develop a strict and proper use of time.

Imagine 3 or 4 courses sitting on your desk ranging from Logic to Church History. There are no time tables, no class bells, no deadlines for papers or exams. How quickly would you get these courses done? Now the phone is ringing, your kids are calling, and you have a midweek meeting to prepare for before your Lord´s Day Sermon. Would you have the personal dedication to do the work that is required of you? The greatest personal benefit to distance education is not the information you assimilate, it is the discipline of self regulation and control. It is far easier to follow the conventions of a brick and mortar timetable created to regulate you time for you than it is to do it out of sheer self discipline. What the distance educated student may lose in the benefits of brick and mortar training he gains in self sacrifice and self discipline. I have learned something during my time as a distance student that could be taught nowhere else; I have learned how to use my time wisely without outside pressure. This is, in my opinion, invaluable to one who would be a minister entrusted to study, pray, visit, and teach by his own timetable.

Conclusion

There are certain detractions to distance education. The dropout rate is greater, there is a sense of isolation, no competitive atmosphere, too much flexibility etc, but as far as I am concerned this system works best. When the local church and the student are equally concerned with the task of training ministers, we come closer to a biblical model of educating those who are seeking the ministry.

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Works Cited

1.Frame, M. John. "A Proposal for a New Seminary". Journal of Pastoral Practice.Volume 2. Number 1.Baker Books. Grand Rapids:1978.

2. Whytock, Jack. C. "Theological Education and Training and the Modern Rise of Distance Learning". Haddington House Journal .Volume 5. Moncton: 2003.


Any thoughts to jumpstart a conversation?

Kind regards,

JOwen

[Edited on 14-12-2004 by JOwen]


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## Ivan (Dec 13, 2004)

WOW! What a great post! 

I've gone the route of the "brick and mortar" for three degrees. I am at the place in my life where it makes no sense to do that again. As the Lord gives me the opportunity and provides the finances, I intend to go the route of distane education. Your post confirms my thinking and I will share this with others.

The key, I believe, is finding the right distance education institution. Some of them aren't any better than watching reruns of "I Love Lucy"! If I may ask, which instituion are you "attending"?


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## JOwen (Dec 13, 2004)

Ivan,

Glad you liked my post.
I agree that most distance ed programs are poor, to say the least. I am doing graduate work at Haddington House Divinity School www.haddingtonhouse.org and Whitefield College and Theological Seminary. I have also done 3 years now of private mentor/tutor training through my Presbytery.



Kind regards,

JOwen


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 13, 2004)

Very good post. I do agree with your assessment in many ways. I also gained all my undergraduate work from "brick and mortar" schools. However, I was blessed to be able to shape my Masters under a tutelage system where for one year I had a mentor. That was nice. We had no kids, my wife did not mind working for that time, and I was a full time student studying theology. If that fairy tale does come true, don't pass it up. But be sure it can be the case before you go.

Personally I love the distance education. If you are self-motivated, I think it is a very good way to learn LOTS of things you WILL NEVER learn in seminary (at least my experience).


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## Ivan (Dec 13, 2004)

Whitefield. Hmmm...that is the institution where I want to do my work. I have heard good things about it on several boards and I've been in communicate with them via email for some time. 

If I get the money, I'm going to do it!

In my search for a good distance education institution I ran across Haddington House Divinity School. Sounds excellent, but it does not offer a degree in what I want to study, which is Biblical Counseling. Obviously, since you are attending Whitefield too, they must be similar in quality. 

What are you studying at Whitefield?


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 13, 2004)

Ph.D. in Philosophy/Historical Theology
Concentration - Presbyterianism vs. Indepednecy in Westminster (Philosophy of Church Government)


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## alwaysreforming (Dec 13, 2004)

I thought your critique of the traditional vs. distance ed. was right on the money. If someone happens to be attending a brick and mortar school in the same hometown as his church, then he might have the best of both worlds, but that case is rare.

One other thing I have thought about as being an advantage of dist. ed. is the time saved by not having to DRIVE to and fro every day. If its 20-30 minutes one way, then by weeks end, you've already wasted a few hours (theoretically). You also don't have to waste time sitting in class while no learning is going on, ie. passing out papers, roll call, waiting on other students to finish work, get settled in, etc.

Also, if the class is discussing something that you're thoroughly familiar with, or thoroughly bored with, then that time is wasted as well.


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## Ivan (Dec 13, 2004)

LOL

Yes, I was about to post and ask you too, Matthew. Weighty stuff there, Matthew

What about you, JOwen?


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## JOwen (Dec 13, 2004)

Dear Matthew and Ivan,

My education is a bit of a mix'n match. I earned a communications degree from a brick and mortar school here in British Columbia, did 3/4 of my B.A in Theology at a brick and mortar school in Alberta, and completed my B.A at Whitefield. Currently I am in the final stretch of my Divinity training at Whitefield and Haddington House and will be doing a Th.D Lord willing with Whitefield in 2005-2007.
Whitefield is a great school with a complete Divinity programme. I would highly recommend it. Haddington House is new, but fantastic. They have the good position of being a divinity school, not seminary, which seems to make more of being a pastor than a theologian.

Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

JOwen


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## RBDude (Dec 14, 2004)

*Distance ED and RTS*

I just applied last week with Reformed Theological Seminary´s MA distance program. 
http://www.rtsvirtual.org

After completing my MA from RTS I will probably apply at Whitefield. Try to do something like our Webmaster : )

Grace to All,
Steve Clevenger


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 14, 2004)

JO - 

I am thinking about Greenville as well for a Th.D. (Yes, I am a glutton for punishment.) Also Whitefield again for that too - they are great, there is no doubt about it. They work closely with you, answer any questions, and are always on top of everything.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 15, 2004)

JO - 

I split the thread and moved it to the church history section. Go there. That way we keep the questions between distance education and the SLC separate.


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## PASSION4TRUTH (Jan 1, 2005)

*Distance Education*

Amen! Great post. Im praying that the churches return to their own responsibility of making disciples. Until then we will have seminaries, a "necessary" evil. But i dont hate the playrs just the game.


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## street preacher (Jan 15, 2005)

Where is Whitefield?


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## JOwen (Jan 15, 2005)

Lakeland FL.
www.whitefieldcollege.org
http://www.whitefield.edu/

kind regards,

Jerrold


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## AdamM (Jan 17, 2005)

Just curious about how an MDiv obtained using a distance/virtual type program is looked upon when it comes to ordination in the conservative Reformed denominations? (example - PCA, OPC, URCNA & etc.) I would think in most presbyteries 99% of the TE's would have gotten their MDiv's degrees via the traditional brick & mortar route. I realize there are probably differences between presbyteries, but any observations in general?


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## JOwen (Jan 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by AdamM_
> Just curious about how an MDiv obtained using a distance/virtual type program is looked upon when it comes to ordination in the conservative Reformed denominations? (example - PCA, OPC, URCNA & etc.) I would think in most presbyteries 99% of the TE's would have gotten their MDiv's degrees via the traditional brick & mortar route. I realize there are probably differences between presbyteries, but any observations in general?



I'm not sure what the PCA, OPC, or the URCNA would look at an distance M.Div. Nor do I think those denominations are conservative Reformed denominations . In the real conservative Reformed denominations, such as the Free Church, Free Church Continuing, Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland, Associated Presbyterian Church of Scotland, Presbyterian Reformed Church, and my own Associated Presbyterian Church of Scotland, a distance M.Div is optional. Most of these denominations have private training by way of their own schools, or Presbytery/Tutor/Mentor-ship divinity programs. I simply have done both.

Kind regards,

Jerrold


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## ARStager (Jan 17, 2005)

I attended the convocation for the Columbia branch of Erskine Seminary last night at First Pres. I was impressed with Dr. DeWitt's "Charge to the Congergation", which followed the "Charge to Seminary Faculty". He mentioned that he thought it would have been more fun to have given the Faculty Charge, so he could say: "GIVE US GOOD MINISTERS!!!", but then realized that the Church itself is where all the formative catechetical instruction and nurturing is to take place, and that our seminaries are only as good as the folks our churches develop and send there. 

This is, of course, only related to the post in a cursory manner. I appreciate the post, especially since I brought up the questions addressed there in another thread. I'll have to read and examine it more later. But for now, the bricks-and-mortor of USC are demanding that I get ready for tomorrow's seminars.


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## ARStager (Jan 17, 2005)

Mr. Lewis:

The link to your blog doesn't seem to be working. Any ideas why? I'd like to visit it.

thanks,

Andy


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## JOwen (Jan 17, 2005)

My blog is down for the next week or so while I fix the server problems that plague me.

kind regards,

Jerrold


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## JOwen (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ARStager_
> Mr. Lewis:
> 
> The link to your blog doesn't seem to be working. Any ideas why? I'd like to visit it.
> ...



Andy,

Try my link now. Things should be bacl up and running.

Kind regards,

Jerrold


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## bond-servant (Jan 22, 2005)

Wow. This is a great thread. Good information


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## JOwen (Jan 22, 2005)

Glad you find it helpful.

Kind regards,

Jerrold


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