# First traffic ticket



## AThornquist (Nov 30, 2009)

Bummer! I got a traffic ticket today, which is my first one. And I've only had my new car for five days!  This lame-o van was going 25 up to the college and I was late for class. I sped past it and because of the momentum that had yet to digress I was going about 20 over the speed limit right as I got to the top of the hill.... where a lovely CHP officer was waiting for me. Haha. Looks like I'm going to traffic school. For the fine I'm going to ask to do community service--so I can pay my dues by working on the new church building, which I do anyway.

blah.

-----Added 11/30/2009 at 09:01:03 EST-----

In traffic school I am going to make comments about I'm uncomfortable to be in a room with a bunch of criminals.


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## Andres (Nov 30, 2009)

You freely admit you were speeding so the ticket sounds justified. No murmuring allowed. 
Signed,
Andrew Silva (Texas Highway Patrol employee)


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## Berean (Nov 30, 2009)

I don't know you, do I?


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## AThornquist (Nov 30, 2009)

Oh, it's totally my fault.  It's not a big deal. I bet the turtle van had a good laugh as they drove past me on the side of the road accepting a ticket!  Good stuff.

At least there is a good moral to this story:

Don't speed until you know what's over the hill.


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## Grillsy (Nov 30, 2009)

Just remember to repent


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## DMcFadden (Nov 30, 2009)

Laugh if you will, now that CA is broke, they are making up for it in their tickets. My check to the Los Angeles County Superior Court a couple of months ago (on 10/5) was $406 for a speeding ticket (for less over the limit than you!). I'm doing traffic school too . . . and I deserve it . . . my bad.


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## AThornquist (Nov 30, 2009)

Grillsy said:


> Just remember to repent



This is what I don't understand about repentance and speeding. I don't know _a_ person who stays at or below the "speed limit." If I honestly repent of speeding, I will have to drive like an old grandma. I wonder if I should just repent of technically speeding "too" fast--"too" being that speed at which law enforcement will actually care.


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## Grillsy (Nov 30, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Grillsy said:
> 
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> > Just remember to repent
> ...



Although we all break them, just like the Decalogue, the law is still the law and should be obeyed. 

Plus, its fun to give you a hard time.


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## Andres (Nov 30, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Grillsy said:
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> > Just remember to repent
> ...



I am sure many will not believe me, but I drive at or below the speed limit everywhere I go. It is actually quite freeing to not have to rush around everywhere. Usually when people blow past me, I end up pulling right up next to them at the next stop light. It has also been proven that driving fast gets you to your destination only a few minutes earlier at most. If you are late, then you need to plan on leaving earlier.


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## Zenas (Nov 30, 2009)

I'm not going to act like I don't or haven't sped. I do. However, going 5 over in my town, as I tend to do, is doing what everyone else is doing. To "speed", relative to the rest of us, you need to do 15 over. 

It has been my observation that what Andres says is true. People blow past me and then, 50 feet up the road, they're at the exact same place I am, only they have to sit still and wait longer. On the road to my wife's parents, it's pointless to speed and pass, but people still do it and they end up one car length ahead of me when I catch up to the inevitable line of people. 

A month or so ago I was headed back from Wed fellowship down the aforementioned long road. It's two lanes, and some schmoe was behind me riding my rear. I was doing 60 in a 55 zone and I wasn't going to go any faster. He continued to swerve around and ride my bumper, until he passed me and cut me off. I thought about speeding up and riding his tail, but than I thought about something my wife always tells me: it's not my job to punish others. So I backed off.

Five minutes later I see blue lights up the road. I thought, "No way". As I passed, same car, same guy, pulled over by Highway Patrol receiving a nice, fat ticket. I waved as I passed.


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## BJClark (Nov 30, 2009)

my kids prefer my husband to drive..they don't like going 'slow'


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## Andres (Nov 30, 2009)

When we get so aggravated at others for their driving habits - they are too slow, too fast, cut us off, didn't signal, etc - we are essentially making an idol in our lives because we want to be God in that situation. What right do we have to demand everyone around us drive exactly as we think they should? There is only One who is in complete control all the time. We on the other hand, are not in control. This is something the Lord has dealt with me in my life.


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## smhbbag (Nov 30, 2009)

> Although we all break them, just like the Decalogue, the law is still the law and should be obeyed.
> 
> Plus, its fun to give you a hard time.



This brings up a number of interesting questions.

Unlike the Decalogue, small violations are not enforced. The issue of speed limits today brings up very fundamental questions about how we view the law, and what counts as law. 

There are many philosophies of law, from various forms of legal positivism to natural law theory and many others - but almost all of them include some provision that, in order for something to be law, it must be enforced. That is, if something is on the books, but violations of it are known and unpunished, then we can at least question whether it is law at all.

Obvious examples include those silly laws that make it into trivia games like, "Did you know in Minneapolis it is illegal to pull a Radio Flyer down the sidewalk with a dog inside?" Or things like that. Is that actually against the law? Is it sin to do so?

These are interesting philosophical and legal questions. Are we responsible to know all of the thousands and thousands of laws we may inadvertently break in any given day? I am quite sure I break many laws, and probably commit a felony or two every now and then. Certainly, I do things that could carry some kind of non-negligible sentence.

If I knew what these violations were, I would stop. But I know there are so many laws I just have to be breaking some of them.

Combining all city, county, state and federal codes that touch every possible facet of our lives, how could we then live at all? We would be afraid to do anything, because we don't know for a fact that any particular action is legal. But we do have much better knowledge of what is enforced, and in practicality that is what we must go on.

I just wanted to point out that those questions exist, not really debate them. This whole discussion is not that relevant to me as a practical matter, but it's intellectually interesting. If a majority of persons break a certain law every day, and no realistic attempt is made to enforce any of these laws, are they law at all? If its penalties and enforcement are applied unevenly (and applied unevenly on purpose), is it law?

I drive the speed limit at all times, and I try never to roll through a stop sign. My main reason is not because these things are illegal, but because I have a very rational fear of anyone whose word, by itself, with no other evidence, can cost me a ton of trouble in time, money and annoyance. The man who pulls you over has absolute power over your fate in a ton of ways, with little or no check on that power, and I decide to avoid that sort of situation. That is not saying anything about the character of our officers. It's just a recognition that avoiding a person with that power is a good idea.


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## Berean (Nov 30, 2009)

> This lame-o van was going 25 up to the college and I was late for class. I sped past it ...



Andrew, I've had 3 speeding tickets in my life. All on city streets. Every one was because I was "stuck" behind some slowpoke going 5 mph under the speed limit. In each case, as I blew around him going probably 15-20 over the speed limit ("temporarily"), the officer was there with the radar doing his job. Gnash your teeth, but it was a conscious decision to do it. It's a lesson learned and you'll pay the tuition. Hang in there.


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## au5t1n (Nov 30, 2009)

I drive the speed limit for the most part (I don't speed on purpose), and if you tail me and act like I'm slowing you down just because I'm obeying the speed limit, I might just slow down even more just to spite you.


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## Simply_Nikki (Nov 30, 2009)

I follow the keeping up with the flow of traffic law .


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## Zenas (Nov 30, 2009)

I do this too- if you ride my tail you just earned 5 mph less on the odometer.


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## AThornquist (Nov 30, 2009)

Zenas said:


> I do this too- if you ride my tail you just earned 5 mph less on the odometer.



Maybe you will inspire them to speed past you and get a ticket. Nice!


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## BJClark (Nov 30, 2009)

DMcFadden;



> Laugh if you will, now that CA is broke, they are making up for it in their tickets. My check to the Los Angeles County Superior Court a couple of monthys ago (on 10/5) was $406 for a speeding ticket (for less over the limit than you!). I'm doing traffic school too . . . and I deserve it . . . my bad.



My husband asked if your going to send them an IOU, like they have been doing with their taxes returns..


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## Edward (Nov 30, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> And I've only had my new car for five days!



Try putting a few coats of latex based paint on the car to see if that will absorb some of the radar waves.


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 1, 2009)

Wow. I've been driving for 17 years and I've only had a couple warnings. No tickets, no accidents. But as my wife says, every time she tries to correct my driving and I feel compelled to point out that it is_ I_ who have the perfect and unblemished record... "It's only by the grace of God!"


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## DMcFadden (Dec 1, 2009)

BJClark said:


> DMcFadden;
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No, but at that level of more than $400, a home equity loan came to mind.


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Dec 1, 2009)

A speeding ticket is not a badge of honor. I received my first ever two weeks ago after many years of driving. All I can say is I deserved it and should probably have had one long before now. I have slowed down. I will pay the fine and be grateful that the penalty could have been worse. The fine could have been spent on some nice books such as Spirit of the Reformation Study Bible, Marrow of Modern Divinity, Kelly's Systematic Theology and a couple of Horton's books.


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## Pergamum (Dec 1, 2009)

Grillsy said:


> AThornquist said:
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> > Grillsy said:
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The Decalogue was based on God's moral character; sometimes state laws are seemingly arbitrary:




> 6.08.030 Restrictions-Public elevators.
> 
> No person owning or having charge, care, custody or control of any dog shall cause or allow it to go or be taken into any elevator in any office building, retail store or public building. This section shall not apply to dogs being used by the blind.
> 
> (Prior code � 13-38)



I would say that there is a huge difference between breaking God's law and the laws of men.


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## Skyler (Dec 1, 2009)

Andres said:


> AThornquist said:
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> > Grillsy said:
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I believe you. 

I always try to drive the speed limit, though it drives my mom nuts when the speed limit is 55 and the road really can't safely be driven at anything above 35. 

I haven't gotten any tickets or accidents yet, though, unlike her... lol


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## Mushroom (Dec 1, 2009)

I've had my share of tickets, mostly while young, but the last was in 2004. I've driven literally millions of miles both as a truck driver and now as a salesman, and speeding is something I wrestle with quite a bit. When I'm running late to an appointment, I find myself justifying 70 mph as 'going with the flow', then notice the occasional 75 mph lapse. But then I start to think about how many miles over the limit the Lord would say was acceptable, and how my speeding is a result of both my lack of trust and my own bad planning. When I am in my better senses, I set the cruise control at the limit, and enjoy the ride while listening to Bible tapes or good music.

Just last night while I was driving to an appt, I was thinking about if it were possible to not sin for any length of time - not be thinking ungodly thoughts, not being impatient or frustrated, not being envious or hypocritical, not being unrighteously angry or selfish, and I was thinking that it seemed as though even my best moments are tainted with sin of some kind, when I looked down and saw I was going over 70 mph. Being negligent of things we know we shouldn't do is sin.



> Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
> 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.


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## Soonerborn (Dec 1, 2009)

I got a 70 on my driving test on the day I turned 16. That was the lowest passing grade you could get. That was to be a bad omen for me. 

The next day I proudly drove to school and proceeded to hit a parked car. 

The next week I received a speeding ticket. 

Over the course of the the next 6 years, I had more speeding tickets then I care to admit. 

However, since 1995, I have had no speeding tickets. 

I agree with Andres who stated: 



Andres said:


> I am sure many will not believe me, but I drive at or below the speed limit everywhere I go. It is actually quite freeing to not have to rush around everywhere. Usually when people blow past me, I end up pulling right up next to them at the next stop light. It has also been proven that driving fast gets you to your destination only a few minutes earlier at most. If you are late, then you need to plan on leaving earlier.



This is great wisdom I also try to follow. A speeding ticket is not worth it. Its not in our budget!


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## JennyG (Dec 1, 2009)

Soonerborn said:


> I got a 70 on my driving test on the day I turned 16.


This makes my hair stand on end, though no American may understand.
Not the 70, but the fact you were driving on your 16th birthday. You have to be 17 in Britain; and even at that, how many people are consistently sensible at 17? 
Last summer a young neighbour of mine, her parents' late-born and only child, piled up her car on a little road just outside the village. She might be alive now if only the legal driving age had been 18 (actually, looking round at some kids I know, I think if I ruled the world it might be, say, 25). 
Andres, I appreciate all your wise thoughts!


> It is actually quite freeing to not have to rush around everywhere. Usually when people blow past me, I end up pulling right up next to them at the next stop light.


This happens to me too and makes me feel enjoyably smug. I give them a sweet smile and a wave (hoping they can see it in their driving mirrors)


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## Augusta (Dec 1, 2009)

You guys in CA have to go to traffic school if you get a ticket?? How many other states do that? I have never heard of that.


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## Andres (Dec 1, 2009)

Augusta said:


> You guys in CA have to go to traffic school if you get a ticket?? How many other states do that? I have never heard of that.



I can't speak for every state, but traffic school is not generally required. However, if you take defensive driving or some type of traffic school, you can have your ticket dismissed from your record and have your fees/fines reduced significantly. At least that's how it works in Tejas.

(Fun Fact: my avatar pic against the brick wall is actually taken at the Department of Public Safety, which also happens to be my place of employment).


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## AThornquist (Dec 1, 2009)

Andres said:


> Augusta said:
> 
> 
> > You guys in CA have to go to traffic school if you get a ticket?? How many other states do that? I have never heard of that.
> ...



Yes, this brother nailed it. I don't want this ticket affecting my insurance prices, which would cost much more than the basic fine and time put in for traffic school.


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## VictorBravo (Dec 1, 2009)

JennyG said:


> Soonerborn said:
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> 
> > I got a 70 on my driving test on the day I turned 16.
> ...



I was legally driving at 15, but that was in Montana in the 70s. Farm kids were the ones to drive the grain trucks back to the bins because they couldn't be trusted to run the combines. . . .


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## JennyG (Dec 1, 2009)

VictorBravo said:


> JennyG said:
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> > Soonerborn said:
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ok, my brother was driving a tractor (the kind without a safety cab) about the same age, but likewise, that was on the farm. He wouldn't have been allowed on the roads. Plus I don't think those tractors could get up very much speed


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## BertMulder (Dec 1, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> I would say that there is a huge difference between breaking God's law and the laws of men.



However, God's law dictates that we obey those that have the rule over us...

(the 5th commandment)... 

So, by breaking the laws of men, we break the law of Almighty God...


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## BJClark (Dec 1, 2009)

Augusta;



> You guys in CA have to go to traffic school if you get a ticket?? How many other states do that? I have never heard of that.



In Florida you have the option of going to traffic school so that points aren't assessed on your license. however you can only do that so many times within a certain time frame--not sure what that time frame is..

edit to add:

Even then it's not 'traffic school per se' you go to class, or you can go to BlockBuster and rent the video go on line and take a test--about the video after you've watched it..then print out the certificate of completion when your done..or you can take the class online..

http://trafficschoolonline.com/

https://secure.lowestpricetrafficsc...tandard&OVADID=41699420522&OVKWID=18913140522


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## Skyler (Dec 1, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> The Decalogue was based on God's moral character; sometimes state laws are seemingly arbitrary:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Only in the case that the laws of men contradict the laws of God. If the laws of men do not directly contradict the laws of God, then by breaking them we _are_ breaking the laws of God, since Peter tells us to submit to every ordinance of man.


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## DMcFadden (Dec 1, 2009)

Andres said:


> Augusta said:
> 
> 
> > You guys in CA have to go to traffic school if you get a ticket?? How many other states do that? I have never heard of that.
> ...



In CA it does not reduce the fees but increases them. In other words, my $406 ticket would have been $75-$85 cheaper without electing to do traffic school. The traffic school (a certified, but "for profit" business) will also charge for the "privilege" of educating me in safe driving. 

However, with the cost of car insurance in metro LA, not having the points assessed on your record and the resulting rise in insurance premiums is well worth the 8 hours of traffic school.


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## Curt (Dec 1, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Oh, it's totally my fault.  It's not a big deal. I bet the turtle van had a good laugh as they drove past me on the side of the road accepting a ticket!  Good stuff.
> 
> At least there is a good moral to this story:
> 
> Don't speed until you know what's over the hill.



Wait! Wait! _*I'm*_ over the hill.


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