# Public Worship and Clothing



## Tyrese (Sep 12, 2014)

How should a Christian dress for Church?


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 12, 2014)

In my opinion, we should dress at least as well as if we were summoned to appear before a judge, the president, a king, etc.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Sep 12, 2014)

Modestly and respectfully.


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## yeutter (Sep 12, 2014)

Men should at least wear a tie. Ties are still usually required when we are summoned to appear in court.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Sep 12, 2014)

NaphtaliPress said:


> In my opinion, we should dress at least as well as if we were summoned to appear before a judge, the president, a king, etc.



Chris,

As this sign from a District Court Office in PA shows, not everyone in our culture understands how to dress in a respectful manner.


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## Tyrese (Sep 12, 2014)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> NaphtaliPress said:
> 
> 
> > In my opinion, we should dress at least as well as if we were summoned to appear before a judge, the president, a king, etc.
> ...



That's funny


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## Elizabeth (Sep 12, 2014)

I enjoy dressing more formally for church than I do in day-to-day life. But I do it on the cheap..thrift store finds. I often sit by a young woman who wears jeans, though, and truly, it doesn't bother me a bit. I am glad she is there! I guess I should have really voted 'doesn't matter'. But I do enjoy dressing up a bit, and so does my husband. We feel it appropriate, for us.


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## jfschultz (Sep 12, 2014)

Hmm, Formal? Isn't a Tux a bit much  (Or highland evening wear)


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## Ephrata (Sep 12, 2014)

Anything that keeps me from distracting anyone else, including myself, from worship of the Lord. (In my case and culture, jeans fit that model.)


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## C. M. Sheffield (Sep 12, 2014)

One can be dressed too finely, which is immodesty. But this has rarely been the issue in churches I've pastored. 

I believe that a Christian's attire in public worship should be: (1) Modest (2) Appropriate (3) Neat & Clean (4) Unremarkable. 

As John has already pointed out, "formal" dress is a tuxedo or evening gown which would not be appropriate for church. A suite/coat and tie for men and a dress for the ladies is a good standard to work with. 

And obviously, the best motivation to encourage members in this area is to inform them that if they fail to comport with the church's strict dress code that they will perish everlastingly in hell fire.


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## Contra_Mundum (Sep 12, 2014)

Dressing _appropriately_ is not the same as dressing for "show." _Appropriate_ is a word that has some built-in vagueness, a context-driven quality.

Much of the toned-down casualness of today's scene is itself a "statement." *You can't make me dress up--God looks on my heart!* And that whole approach is all there is to the thinking of some folks. But is that the attitudinal engine we want driving our worship-train?

Does God care at all about our bodies? I doubt we share a "fashion sense," but there was a time when he detailed the garb of his high-priest pretty closely. There must be some compatibility between "Man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks on the heart," and insisting on peculiar robes. Indeed, the point of the contrast made in 1Sam.16:7 isn't that God never concerns himself with externals; but that man is _limited_ to externals while God is not.

What about "making people feel bad," or "out of place," or "underdressed and unwelcome?" In the first place, not all bad-feelings are the responsibility of others. Not all feeling-bad by one person is the result of abuse by other people. Maybe it's the result of too-much selfconsciousness, even pride. James addresses the problem of favoritism resulting from distinctions in dress, 2:1-4. The problem isn't (necessarily) with the dude wearing the gold rings; but with the man showing favoritism. Ostentation is certainly out of place, as are cliques of wealth and privilege in the church--see 1Cor.11. But the problem isn't with dressing up, per se.

Dress for the occasion. This is a meeting with the King. Spiritually, you come in the robes of Christ's righteousness--perfect. But it is a false-dualism that says: "so I can dress my body like I don't care what anyone thinks, _because God doesn't care_." Really? He doesn't care? What is the theology behind that statement? I get it, that some people may not understand what is going on, and so because of deficiency in teaching they hardly consider their body (supposed to be presented as a living sacrifice to God). But the deliberately slovenly is an "index" to the attitude within; just like the deliberately prim and proper.

Does God deserve your best, or at least some token of thoughtfulness? If you don't think so, or don't think he cares, why? What is the theology behind that assertion? If you look like you slept-in until you barely had enough time to make the call-to-worship still dressed in your pajamas--because you basically just did--the others present (and God too, even more) know that _preparation_ and _anticipation_ weren't much of factors in "doing Sunday" as far you're concerned.

Some people who look disheveled may have been providentially hindered from much preparation. Bless their determination to come anyway! For a poor man, dressing up may be wearing his best jeans (that still have holes). And right next to him could be a man in a three piece suit. Taking a bath (if possible) before coming to church is a way of showing love to your brothers. Anything wrong with that? A person who looks and smells down-and-out may have his needs met physically and spiritually, precisely because he did all he could just to show up. If he doesn't want to come because of all the "suits and ties," is the problem entirely with the suit-wearers?

I know in SoCal, "dressing up" may mean your nicest Hawaiian shirt. And a clean pair of flipflops, same color as your cargo-pant-culottes. I'm still not sold on that as the most fitting attire, if there's something nicer hanging in the closet; but I'm prepared to put it all in context. But just because I'm in SoCal, doesn't mean that worship is IN SoCal. Worship is IN heaven, we go TO Zion and Jerusalem on Sunday, Heb.12:22. I'm coming to present myself _body and soul_ to God, at his summons. And it makes sense to honor him by acknowledging more by the body than that it's still breathing, and so making an appearance merely for the soul's sake.


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## Jack K (Sep 12, 2014)

Your poll lacks a choice for "dressy, but not necessarily formal."

The argument that we're meeting with the King has merit, but in America today how one dresses has as much (or more) to say about one's station in life as it does about the occasion. I used to always wear a tie, at least, but if I wore a suit and tie to church these days it would probably communicate that I thought myself a big shot professional-type more than it would that I thought highly of the occasion. So I wear something nice, neat, and somewhat dressy by the standards of the town where I live, but I forego the suit and tie in order to be just a common worshiper on a level with everyone else. Were I in a church where everyone dressed formally, I would dress formally too and probably appreciate some things about that.


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 12, 2014)

I refuse to concede that because I've never changed the way I dress in a coat and tie for church since I was a lad, that somehow I'm the problem.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Sep 12, 2014)

Tyrese said:


> How should a Christian dress for Church?



Use a bit of common sense and you will have your answer.


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## Tyrese (Sep 12, 2014)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Tyrese said:
> 
> 
> > How should a Christian dress for Church?
> ...



Hi brother,

First I think your response is was a bit rude. If you disagree that's ok, just thought I tell ya. I know we're having an online discussion but I hope you would address me or anyone else in a nicer way if this was in person.

Second, this has been a big question in many Churches that I've attended. Based on some of the responses given the answer to this question is not as obvious for some as it may seem to you. I think Bruce answered this question very well.


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## JimmyH (Sep 12, 2014)

I have thought about this from the standpoint of someone who doesn't own a suit or a tie. I definitely felt self conscious going to church when I first began going again after a very long hiatus. I wear a clean shirt with a collar. Trousers, not jeans, but was relieved to see some who do wear jeans. Some wear sport coats, others suits. I always am sure that I am showered and clean shaved, and when I do see some members who need a shave, I always wonder why it doesn't matter to them, but I don't judge them over it. I've seen a young man wearing cargo shorts and I must admit I thought that was inappropriate.

In the late 1960s it was said, amongst some longhairs, that if Jesus were to try and go to a mainstream church they would have asked Him to leave because of His long hair and sandals. Not really part of this discussion but just came to mind from back then.


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## Tyrese (Sep 12, 2014)

JimmyH said:


> I have thought about this from the standpoint of someone who doesn't own a suit or a tie. I definitely felt self conscious going to church when I first began going again after a very long hiatus. I wear a clean shirt with a collar. Trousers, not jeans, but was relieved to see some who do wear jeans. Some wear sport coats, others suits. I always am sure that I am showered and clean shaved, and when I do see some members who need a shave, I always wonder why it doesn't matter to them, but I don't judge them over it. I've seen a young man wearing cargo shorts and I must admit I thought that was inappropriate.
> 
> In the late 1960s it was said, amongst some longhairs, that if Jesus were to try and go to a mainstream church they would have asked Him to leave because of His long hair and sandals. Not really part of this discussion but just came to mind from back then.



Jesus had long hair?


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## JimmyH (Sep 12, 2014)

Tyrese said:


> Jesus had long hair?



Ha ! Good point !


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## Rich Koster (Sep 12, 2014)

James 2. Don't hang the Pharisees rope on dress code. Only man cares if your tailor is Bill Blass, Botany 500, or Levi Strauss.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Sep 12, 2014)

Too many become offended at the notion that one's attire reflect the solemnity and dignity of the occasion. And like everything else in America, we cow-tow to the ones who's "feelings" are easily hurt. And anyone not doing so becomes an ipso-facto Pharisee. Too many things in American Evangelicalism get boiled down to the lowest common denominator: If it it isn't essential to one's justification, it isn't worth discussing. And if you do think there is merit in such a discussion, it's because, they say, you would condemn to hell those who don't agree with your views on some "non-essential" issue (ergo my quip at the end of my last post). This reductionistic attitude is pervasive in the U.S. You can't talk about anything related to practical piety without having to repeatedly stress that you're not addressing anything related to their right standing before God or the legitimacy of their profession of faith. But even after all the careful qualifications, someone's going to go off in a huff because "the preacher's being legalistic."


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## Tyrese (Sep 12, 2014)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Too many become offended at the notion that one's attire reflect the solemnity and dignity of the occasion. And like everything else in America, we cow-tow to the ones who's "feelings" are easily hurt. And anyone not doing so becomes an ipso-facto Pharisee. Too many things in American Evangelicalism get boiled down to the lowest common denominator: If it it isn't essential to one's justification, it isn't worth discussing. And if you do think there is merit in such a discussion, it's because, they say, you would condemn to hell those who don't agree with your views on some "non-essential" issue (ergo my quip at the end of my last post). This reductionistic attitude is pervasive in the U.S. You can't talk about anything related to practical piety without having to repeatedly stress that you're not addressing anything related to their right standing before God or the legitimacy of their profession of faith. But even after all the careful qualifications, someone's going to go off in a huff because "the preacher's being legalistic."



Rev Sheffield,

This is a good summary of how I feel about this issue, which is why I asked this question. Thanks for your response!


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## Free Christian (Sep 12, 2014)

Hello Tyrese. To me as respectfully as you think you are dressed. I don't wear a suit or tie but I don't think more or less of anyone who does. How I dress when I dress nice in my own eyes some may see as not really well dressed, and many poor people may see as being very well dressed. I don't think people should just wear the most casual of their clothing as if they would whilst walking their dog through the park. But then I know a person who goes gold detecting in the bush who dresses like he is going to lunch! And then again, what I think is pretty decent dressed for myself, others may actually wear whilst walking their dog through the park. Is there a dress code outlined in the Bible? I know that in Mathew 22 there is reference to attire but im sure that is not meant for how we should dress in Church but rather being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. I am often reminded in myself, or think of it I might say, of James 2 when people may judge on attire. I leave how a person is dressed between themselves and God. I think one being clothed with the righteousness of Christ in their heart is the most important thing. One may be dressed with the finest of clothes, the most exquisite suit and yet inside be not so well dressed. And on the other hand one may be dressed below what others consider well dressed and yet inside be wearing the finest of linen!


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 12, 2014)

We dress up to go to a special dinner and we dress up to appear before authority. There's no need to define it to a culture (in the West guys have long worn a tie); we "know" if we are treating a judge better than the God before which we appear to worship in public. Dress accordingly.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Sep 12, 2014)

Free Christian said:


> Hello Tyrese. To me as respectfully as you think you are dressed. I don't wear a suit or tie but I don't think more or less of anyone who does. How I dress when I dress nice in my own eyes some may see as not really well dressed, and many poor people may see as being very well dressed. I don't think people should just wear the most casual of their clothing as if they would whilst walking their dog through the park. But then I know a person who goes gold detecting in the bush who dresses like he is going to lunch! And then again, what I think is pretty decent dressed for myself, others may actually wear whilst walking their dog through the park. Is there a dress code outlined in the Bible? I know that in Mathew 22 there is reference to attire but im sure that is not meant for how we should dress in Church but rather being clothed in the righteousness of Christ. I am often reminded in myself, or think of it I might say, of James 2 when people may judge on attire. I leave how a person is dressed between themselves and God. I think one being clothed with the righteousness of Christ in their heart is the most important thing. One may be dressed with the finest of clothes, the most exquisite suit and yet inside be not so well dressed. And on the other hand one may be dressed below what others consider well dressed and yet inside be wearing the finest of linen!



Here there is the subtle insinuation of a dichotomy between being clothed in the righteousness of Christ and being clothed appropriately for church. Which is precisely what I addressed in my previous post. No one is suggesting that union with Christ is of less importance than what one is wearing to church. And to insinuate that very thing is problematic for a whole host of other issue which bear no necessary connection to our union with Christ in justification. How can one ever discuss a biblical approach to modesty, the Sabbath, movies, entertainment and recreation, alcohol, dating/courtship, politics, career and retirement? All of these are important matters but many are ones which the Bible doesn't address directly and ones on which genuine believers my differ. Should we address all of these matters by simply saying, "Well, I think one being clothed with the righteousness of Christ in their heart is the most important thing." Is there biblical warrent to "leave the basic principles of the doctrine of Christ" and "go on unto perfection?" I believe the answer to that question is yes.


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## Sylvanus (Sep 13, 2014)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> Here there is the subtle insinuation of a dichotomy between being clothed in the righteousness of Christ and being clothed appropriately for church. Which is precisely what I addressed in my previous post. No one is suggesting that union with Christ is of less importance than what one is wearing to church. And to insinuate that very thing is problematic for a whole host of other issue which bear no necessary connection to our union with Christ in justification. How can one ever discuss a biblical approach to modesty, the Sabbath, movies, entertainment and recreation, alcohol, dating/courtship, politics, career and retirement? All of these are important matters but many are ones which the Bible doesn't address directly and ones on which genuine believers my differ. Should we address all of these matters by simply saying, "Well, I think one being clothed with the righteousness of Christ in their heart is the most important thing." Do we lack warrent to "leave the basic principles of the doctrine of Christ" and "go on unto perfection?" I believe the answer to that question is yes.



Eh? I think the Bible does address those things, maybe not directly, but by inference.. I can't say the same for whether a person wears a tuxedo, a suit, or slacks and button up. In this case the dichotomy is not invalid no matter how many times people on here say it is...we dress a certain way for judges, kings, etc. because men do not know the heart or the character, they judge by appearances (especially first impressions). God does not... He sees us everywhere... even in places that you wouldn't want others seeing you. Should I dress in a suit and tie every time I address the King of kings in prayer? Can I pray naked, in the shower? Does it matter? Or does it matter how my heart is "dressed" so to speak. 

That said, I would take into consideration others, and the message you send when you're among wheat and tares dressed in your pajamas to worship... I think some things are just obvious... Others I wouldn't concern myself with so much, like whether a guy wears a polo to church rather than a suit and tie.


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## Free Christian (Sep 13, 2014)

Not sure what I insinuated?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Sep 13, 2014)

Tyrese said:


> Hi brother,
> 
> First I think your response is was a bit rude. If you disagree that's ok, just thought I tell ya. I know we're having an online discussion but I hope you would address me or anyone else in a nicer way if this was in person.
> 
> Second, this has been a big question in many Churches that I've attended. Based on some of the responses given the answer to this question is not as obvious for some as it may seem to you. I think Bruce answered this question very well.



Brother, with all due respect, I think you are misunderstanding me (though that is probably my fault for not explaining myself more clearly). I am not being "un-nice", I am just pointing out that you do not need to spend hours endlessly going back and forth on this issue, as it really is only a matter of common sense. For instance, would it be modest to dress as the Incredible Hulk at a Sabbath service? Well, there is no verse in the Bible that expressly tells you not to dress as the Incredible Hulk, but by using a bit of common sense we can discern that this form of dress would be immodest and inappropriate. Apply that general principle to most questions of what constitutes appropriate dress for church, and the matter is easily sorted out.


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 13, 2014)

JimmyH said:


> His long hair and sandals.



Not true.


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## Bill The Baptist (Sep 13, 2014)

NaphtaliPress said:


> We dress up to go to a special dinner and we dress up to appear before authority. There's no need to define it to a culture (in the West guys have long worn a tie); we "know" if we are treating a judge better than the God before which we appear to worship in public. Dress accordingly.



While I certainly agree with this sentiment, I think we must be careful not to "teach as doctrine the commandments of men." I simply find no evidence in the New Testament of Jesus or the disciples or anyone else dressing differently when they gathered for worship than they ordinarily would have dressed.


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 13, 2014)

I don't think we have evidence that they didn't dress differently either. This is not an issue of elements of worship where a prescription is required; but general principles of treating the Lord at least as well as others we show respect. I have to proof read this morning so someone with time and more smarts may be able to tease this out but is there not an argument from the greater to the lesser from this Scripture at the very least?A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith the LORD of hosts unto you, O priests, that despise my name. And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Ye offer polluted bread upon mine altar; and ye say, Wherein have we polluted thee? In that ye say, The table of the LORD is contemptible. And if ye offer the blind for sacrifice, is it not evil? and if ye offer the lame and sick, is it not evil? offer it now unto thy governor; will he be pleased with thee, or accept thy person? saith the LORD of hosts. Malachi 1:6-8.​


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## jwithnell (Sep 13, 2014)

Rev. Buchanan summarizes my thoughts on the matter better than I could. I would add one thought: we are approaching a Holy God in a setting where He has previously given given commanments to honor (the garb in temple worship). It makes sense that our own preparations would be, holy, set apart.


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## Quatchu (Sep 13, 2014)

Typically I wear a suit with a bow tie, in the summer months I have dress pants and a dress shirt without a tie unless I'am doing pulpit supply or teaching that Sunday.

Typically when asked I tell people to dress like they are going to meet the King and creator of the universe and leave it at that.


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## Edward (Sep 13, 2014)

Skimming the posts here, it appears that whether one thinks you should wear your 'Sunday best' or not pretty much breaks along Baptist/Presbyterian lines. That does not really surprise me. 

And, of course, I'm on the Presbyterian side of the line.


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## Contra_Mundum (Sep 13, 2014)

That's not my read of the divided sentiment. C.M. Sheffield is a Baptist pastor, for example.

Seems to me the divide (if we can define one) is simply along the lines of whether the body is properly an "expression" of sorts for the soul, or not. Whether presenting one's body/self to God (ala Rom.12:1; cf. Ps.50:5) naturally includes covering the whole business with respect and honor (toward Him who is above, as well as to those around us or below us); or if a minimalist approach is just as nice, dress, appearance, odor, etc. being incomparably inconsequential to what the spirit is engaged with.

Seems to me those who disagree with me could be Presbyterian as well as Baptist.


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## Reformed Roman (Sep 13, 2014)

As one man I respect once said "Pimps wear suits, drug dealers too, you don't see us labeling those things on you". 

I heard that in a song and it's very true. Certain people of different cultures can be looked down upon for not dressing a certain way, but how nice a person dresses is subjective. 

I live in Saint Louis and my church is very diverse, young, and comes much from a urban and inner city context.

I come before the LORD every day and worship. While there is much value in church, the preaching of the Word and it is an excellent means of grace, I can say the same for prayer. I do not dress up when I pray, or when I seek the LORD daily. I consider that time equally important for spiritual growth as church. If you don't seek the LORD daily, you will struggle mightily, and the same can be said for if you seek the LORD daily, but don't go to church. Without the church you will spiritually rot.

Also, the LORD does indeed take us as we are. He forgives our iniquities and changes us into new people. I consider myself before the LORD at all times, not just church.

In the end I consider this a cultural issue more than anything. In certain cultures wearing a suit to church could be seen a certain way, especially when everyone else dresses like they do in every day life. Just like if I go to most Presbyterian services I'm sure most would expect me to at least wear a polo, sweater vest, tie, or something of the sort.


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## Reformed Roman (Sep 13, 2014)

Contra_Mundum said:


> That's not my read of the divided sentiment. C.M. Sheffield is a Baptist pastor, for example.
> 
> Seems to me the divide (if we can define one) is simply along the lines of whether the body is properly an "expression" of sorts for the soul, or not. Whether presenting one's body/self to God (ala Rom.12:1; cf. Ps.50:5) naturally includes covering the whole business with respect and honor (toward Him who is above, as well as to those around us or below us); or if a minimalist approach is just as nice, dress, appearance, odor, etc. being incomparably inconsequential to what the spirit is engaged with.
> 
> Seems to me those who disagree with me could be Presbyterian as well as Baptist.



I present my body to God daily as a sacrifice. In context that verse can be applied to many things. But in context that verse is not limited alone to worship. So if you present your body as a sacrifice by dressing nicely before church, why not dress nice when you pray? If your dressing as an expression to show God reverence why not dress that way in prayer, or every single day out of reverence since you are presenting your body daily to him?

I think this again goes under a subjective thing. Sure it matters. It matters how we dress in our context we live in, but I think we can't expect everyone to dress up. 

If I went to worship with a native tribe, would it be the most God honoring thing to wear a suit and tie to worship? And what if one member of that tribe had more money, should he go buy a suit?

(These questions aren't necessarily directed at Bruce. Just general questions to consider)


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Sep 13, 2014)

Just dress up in a way that people are least likely to get distracted by your appearance during God's worship.


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## Romans922 (Sep 13, 2014)

1 Cor. 11:1-16 teaches at least partially how to dress in public worship.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Sep 13, 2014)

Zach Rohman said:


> I present my body to God daily as a sacrifice. In context that verse can be applied to many things. But in context that verse is not limited alone to worship. So if you present your body as a sacrifice by dressing nicely before church, why not dress nice when you pray? If your dressing as an expression to show God reverence why not dress that way in prayer, or every single day out of reverence since you are presenting your body daily to him?



Your comments deny any distinction between private acts of devotion and the public worship of God. Assuming you subscribe to the Baptist Confession of Faith (1689), you should know that our Confession and the Reformed doctrine of worship maintains that there are real differences in pubic and private worship. Reformed doctrine maintains that the Sabbath Day is the Lord's Day, a day which by its very nature is distinct from the six other days of the week. This is the day appointed by God for the public worship of the Church and observance of the public means of Grace, some of which are only available to the believer at that special time. Only in public worship do we get to hear the Word preached and the Sacraments administered, only in public worship has Christ promised the special manifestation of his presence to be with his covenant people (Matt. 18:19). And this promise means the public prayers of God's gathered people are more effectual than those of a single individual.

Make no mistake, the private prayers of the saint are vital to their own growth in grace, but the public worship of God's people enjoys a privileged status in God's word and in the life of the believer. This is why our confession of faith in speaking of private, family and public worship, speaks of public worship being done "more solemnly" than either private or family prayer (BCF 22:6). This is the reason why we clothe ourselves for an occasion and duty that possesses greater dignity and solemnity than other days or duties.


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## whirlingmerc (Sep 14, 2014)

Modesty and respectfully and be generous to others who dress more formal or more casual

Here's a problem. When I started workign everyone went to work in dress slacks and I wore a tie every day. Now, many companies dress down and so dressing down is not seen as disrespectful as it might have. Customer facing people tend to dress up moreso.


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## tleaf (Sep 14, 2014)

Just my two cents: Gen. 35:2-3.
*Then Jacob said unto his household, and to all that were with him, Put away the strange gods that are among you, and be clean, and change your garments: and let us arise, and go up to Beth-el; and I will make there an altar unto God...*

As I "meet and greet" folks at my church, I've seen thousands of people go through those doors, and it's the faces I remember, not the clothes. With the above quote in mind, how one presents himself or herself before The Lord is really between you and God. (Yes, I know, the rest of us will be tempted to judge.)

Let's try to envision the souls, saved and unsaved, in our congregations, and look beyond our "filthy rags".


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## Free Christian (Sep 14, 2014)

Zach Rohman said:


> If I went to worship with a native tribe, would it be the most God honoring thing to wear a suit and tie to worship? And what if one member of that tribe had more money, should he go buy a suit?


I thought about that too, or similar.
What if one was to become a minister and go to an area of poor people, like some places in Australia in the north with Aboriginals. Does there come a time when you would seek to teach them they should be wearing suits to church. What if they could not afford them, do you put away funds or seek funds to at some stage be able to buy them some? What if their version of being dressed the best is not in a suit but something else? Or in your own church you have some people from a lower class who come in the nicest clothes they have which are not suits and ties? Do we somehow teach them that this is the best and buy them one? There are so many different classes in society that what one may consider best another considers less. A person with a good job considers going having a good meal, the best, having lobster. Whilst another considers a chop with vegies pretty swish!
Im not sure where wearing a suit and tie is the best. To me a suit and tie is another form of dress which I myself don't use. For myself to get into the habit of wearing one would mean I would have to change my mindset of what I consider best instead of just it being an option. I would then have to create in my mind a standard of dress and clothing which at this stage in my life does not exist. Whether I meet a man dressed in a suit or not has no bearing on my mind as to the person. So if I met one dressed that way and another not I simply see a man in a suit and a man in something else. Same as I see a drink of water in a cup or a mug, both hold water! 
I actually read Malachi yesterday and this morning and found it a fantastic read, challenging too. But I cannot see it meaning other than offering the best you have. Should I seek to in all ways better my best, where would I stop. Or should I accept what I have and offer the best of that?
Isnt that scripture speaking of those offering for sacrifice a lame lamb instead of a best one, offering that which is of no great value or consequence in place of the best they have? Like a person seeing someone starving and digging their hand into their pocket and handing them some loose change which would hardly buy a bread roll and which they didn't even care if they lost whilst they have a wallet full of cash and could well afford to buy them a meal?
Is that part of scripture teaching that I should change my idea of what is the best I have? In other words go out and buy what others might consider best when to me its not and just another option of clothing?
Ill add too that I have been to court a couple of times in my life and never wore a suit but wore the nicest clothes I had.


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## Mushroom (Sep 14, 2014)

The Sunday School teacher today made the comment that he could 'discern' that I was not spiritually right because I didn't wear a suit to Church. He was using it as an example of 'refined sins', where we as Christians condemn other Christians by non-essential standards.

I'm thinkin' next week I'll go in a tux...

Reactions: Rejoicing 1


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## MW (Sep 14, 2014)

How should a Christian dress for Church? Left to right and top to bottom.


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## Free Christian (Sep 14, 2014)

armourbearer said:


> How should a Christian dress for Church? Left to right and top to bottom.


That got me thinking  so I just checked, and tried a jacket on. I never thought of that before. I was surprised, I do dress from left to right and top to bottom


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## MW (Sep 14, 2014)

Free Christian said:


> armourbearer said:
> 
> 
> > How should a Christian dress for Church? Left to right and top to bottom.
> ...



And it works every time. You always end up dressed for church.


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## kodos (Sep 14, 2014)

Maybe it is some remaining Americanism in me, but I sometimes chafe when people _prescribe_ a dress code for the church - other than restraining things completely disrespectful, distracting or distasteful. I really love and respect those who dress up in their 'Sunday finest', I love that they seek to honor the Lord with their choice of clothing. I've known plenty of men who wouldn't be caught dead at church without a suit on. I applaud them for that, because their heart is seeking to show respect for their Lord and Savior. Nothing wrong with that, I love it.

Then I know brothers who come to church dressed less formally, because for them it would feel pretentious, or awkward to dress up. I'm kind of that way. I hate putting on suits. Even for something formal like a wedding. I just don't feel like myself, and it makes me feel like I'm putting on airs and being a hypocrite because I'm bending to men's expectations for me, rather than anything I want to do that is heartfelt. But that's just me. I don't mean any disrespect to my King and Lord by wearing something more plain to church.

I think there is one note of caution that I want to sound regarding dress. I have had people use dress as an excuse _not_ to attend church. A good friend of mine, for the first time that he accepted my invitation to visit church fretted that he didn't know if he had anything good enough to wear. And this man didn't have anything much nicer than the clothes he came to work in (and being game developers, we aren't known for great clothes  ).

That was sad - not that he didn't have a suit, but that he used it as a reason to stress out about attending church. Yes, men will invent excuses as to why they cannot attend. But there sometimes can be a false barrier placed, which is anti-gospel, which is that _I have to clean myself up, before I attend worship_. Brothers, this is not the message of the gospel, and we need to be careful that we do not unwittingly place this message out there. 

Just an observation. Other than that, I try to heed Rev. Winzer's instructions always, including how to get dressed :-D


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## Ryan J. Ross (Sep 15, 2014)

The Scriptures do address the question of dress and I would add WLC 138–39. 

9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. (1 Tm 2:9–10; cf. 1 Tm 3:15)

2 For if there come unto your assembly a man with a gold ring, in goodly apparel, and there come in also a poor man in vile raiment;
3 And ye have respect to him that weareth the gay clothing, and say unto him, Sit thou here in a good place; and say to the poor, Stand thou there, or sit here under my footstool (James 2:2–3).


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## One Little Nail (Sep 15, 2014)

Ryan J. Ross said:


> The Scriptures do address the question of dress and I would add WLC 138–39.
> 
> 9 In like manner also, that women adorn themselves in modest apparel, with shamefacedness and sobriety; not with broided hair, or gold, or pearls, or costly array;
> 10 But (which becometh women professing godliness) with good works. (1 Tm 2:9–10; cf. 1 Tm 3:15)
> ...




So I take it a fancy suit would come under "goodly apparel". Personally I wear Levi jeans that I bought for Au$10 & a good
shirt, have been able to pick up some from Opportunity Shops on the cheap, which you would call Smart Casual, so I don't wear goodly apparel nor vile raiment, neither do I despise one & exalt the other, though people should dress in accordance
with the station of life they are in, Doctors & Lawers may well wear "gay clothing", it also may be appropriate for Elders & 
Ministers of the Word to wear better clothing as well.


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## Jack K (Sep 15, 2014)

kodos said:


> there sometimes can be a false barrier placed, which is anti-gospel, which is that I have to clean myself up, before I attend worship. Brothers, this is not the message of the gospel, and we need to be careful that we do not unwittingly place this message out there.



This is an excellent point. Let me add this: Many people already feel as if church is for folks who have their act together, and that they need to put on an appearance of holiness when they come to church. The practice of dressing up for church can feed that gotta-look-good mindset, working against a spirit of humility and readiness to confess sin. To some people, a church were everyone is in a suit looks like a church where everyone is putting on false appearances—hiding their everyday selves not only when it comes to dress but also with regard to behavior. It feels like a church full of frauds. The fact that this is true of all too many churches adds to the impression.

Notwithstanding the many good reasons there might be for dressing up for church (and I like to come dressed up myself), this is a valid concern.


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 15, 2014)

I wear a coat and tie (nothing fancy; some of the 20somethings in the church are younger than my ties) in a very conservative church and I'm the minority (not more than 5%-7%?). I suspect that is the case just about everywhere. Whether one looks at worship practices, observance of the Lord's day, etc., the problem with the modern day church is laxity when it comes to the things of God. Not dressing at least as well for the Lord's worship as we do for an earthly judge is emblematic of that broader problem.


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## Steve Curtis (Sep 15, 2014)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Not dressing at least as well for the Lord's worship as we do for an earthly judge



I keep hearing/reading this... however, I have seen MANY people in (earthly) courtrooms that dress in jeans, etc. Unless you are referring to officers of the court (lawyers, etc.), the argument doesn't seem to hold as much water in the modern culture as it used to. Even then, the parallel might be between the officers of the court and the ministers of the church. Nonetheless, I, too, am in the distinct minority when I am attending church in the US - I usually don a coat or a tie (sometimes both) - of course, I am the type to do so in a courtroom, as well!


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## timmopussycat (Sep 15, 2014)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I wear a coat and tie (nothing fancy; some of the 20somethings in the church are younger than my ties) in a very conservative church and I'm the minority (not more than 5%-7%?). I suspect that is the case just about everywhere. Whether one looks at worship practices, observance of the Lord's day, etc., the problem with the modern day church is laxity when it comes to the things of God. Not dressing at least as well for the Lord's worship as we do for an earthly judge is emblematic of that broader problem.



The argument that we should dress formally because God is the King of the universe and our dress should express due respect for that role would only be valid if kingship was the only way God related to his people. But that is not the case. As well as being the King of the universe, God is the Saviour of his people and our Father as well. If our dress should be appropriate for our relationship to God, shouldn't it be acceptable to reflect the other aspects of that relationship as well?


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 15, 2014)

I have not voted in the poll and I have never said dress formally; I have said to dress at least as well as we'd treat an earthly judge. I think the argument from greater to lesser stands as far as I"m concerned I made above which pertained to God's worship. And this is not about class; church's I've been in the least well off have worn coat and tie.


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## Jake (Sep 15, 2014)

Well, formally is tails; tuxes are semi-formal. Even with a tie, it could still be business casual by some definitions. 

From what I can see, whether appearing in court or in business, coats and ties are becoming less common. Many young adult men don't even own ties and don't have need of them in even special affairs. Even at weddings I've been to recently, I've seen a larger number of men not wearing coats and ties. 

I personally wear slacks or chinos with a pressed button up, occasionally accented with a tie and/or coat depending on my mood and the weather to church and I think this is sufficient, even when I just wear the shirt and slacks.


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## Tim (Sep 15, 2014)

How far we have come. The Great Depression: 







Source: Greater Depression


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 15, 2014)

Honestly, this is not going any further. Let's give it a rest.


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