# Interesting chat with a Kabbalist



## rgrove (Sep 19, 2005)

Matt Slick from http://www.carm.org has posted a chat he had with a Kabbalist. Very interesting... Here's just a short snippet from the conversation that was especially interesting:

http://www.carm.org/kabbalah/dialogue.htm

"_Watcher: Although principles of Kabbalah are being seen in modern physics.
Matt: Well, I don't know what that means, but I do know that after having read hundreds of pages of Kabbalah material, it is nonfalsifiable. It is the apparent formulation of several individuals over hundreds of years who seem to have made up a theological system that rests in other dimensions of reality. How do you verify other dimensions of reality in which levels of consciousness and divine expression co-mingle?
Watcher: Kabbalah is a system for categorizing the mind.
Matt: You see? I could make stuff up and it would fit right in the pages of Kabbalah.
Matt: I could talk about the ethereal presence of the highest plane of self-realization in the God consciousness and that when you are in tune with that divine consciousness through meditation on the Torah, you will achieve the self-realization and awareness of your true divinity. I just made that up....But that is the kind of thing I'm reading in Kabbalah pages.
Watcher: Yes and it is truth.
Matt: Huh???? You mean, what I just made up is truth?
Watcher: Based on the teachings of the ancients
Matt: Actually, I was drawing more on New Age terminology and ideas that I was on Kabbalah. They are, however, quite similar and the New Age movement is also just as nonfalsifiable. You see, nonfalsifiability means that a system of thought really does not rest in reality. It means that it rests in the mind of its creator. What is interesting about Jesus, about Christianity, is the intrusion of God into our material world. With Jesus, something actually happened, something that could be seen, touched, felt, etc.
Watcher: Reality is what you make it
Matt: Now, if reality is what I want to make it, then my reality is that whatever you say that contradicts what I say, is false. Is my reality true or is it false? Please tell me.
Watcher: Spirituality is subjective.
Matt: If spirituality is subjective, then aren't you making an absolute statement about it? If so, that is self refuting. In other words, it cannot be true because it refutes itself.
Watcher: How is spirituality not subjective? One person sees Jesus. No other person feels the presence of the Spirit and so forth.
Matt: I'm only responding to what you said. You said it is subjective. But saying that it is subjective is making an absolute statement. If something is absolute it cannot be subjective. I'm only showing you that you are not logical.
Watcher: It is all a subjective experience that effects the individual directly.
Matt: If it is all subjective experience, then how do you know anything is real?
Watcher: You are not allowing me to finish my point so of course it wouldn't seem illogical
Matt: If it is all subjective experience, then how do you know Kabbalah is real?
Watcher: Because it works for me. It works within the framework of my consciousness.
Matt: That's it? It works for you? That is your response?
Watcher: Yes
Matt: So, if alcoholism "works" for someone, is it good?
Watcher: Sure. But they will not do anything productive with their life
Matt: Is it possible that you could be deceived from Satan?
Watcher: If so I do not care so long as I do something productive with my life and change the world for the better
Matt: Wait a minute. If you are being deceived by Satan, you don't care? You would not want to know if you are being deceived?
Watcher: That is for God to decide. 
Matt: So it's okay to be deceived as long as that deception "works" for you, right?
Watcher: Yes._"


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## Puritanhead (Sep 19, 2005)

Kabbalah is a bunch of occult Jewish rubbish and sorcery...


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## turmeric (Sep 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> Kabbalah is a bunch of occult Jewish rubbish and sorcery...



...from Babylon.


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