# Luke 23:34.....Help please



## LarryCook (Jun 11, 2005)

> 34And Jesus said, "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."[a] And they cast lots to divide his garments.
> 
> Footnotes:
> 
> Luke 23:34 Some manuscripts omit the sentence And Jesus ... what they do.



So out of the blue yesterday I (for some unknown reason) begin thinking about this verse. And I am asking myself:

1. what Jesus' intent was in asking the Father to forgive them
2. was he talking only of the Romans, the Roman soldiers, the people of Israel, the Jewish leadership, or some combination of these
3. was he asking only that they be forgiven for this particular "sin" or act or that they be forgiven of all their sins?

thanks for all assistance here...
Larry


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## Contra_Mundum (Jun 12, 2005)

I think he was asking God to forgive the sin of his immediate tormentors/crucifiers, i.e. the Roman detatchment assigned this greusome task. They, no less than anyone should have seen what his followers, his haters, the thief on the cross, saw. But their ignorance was perhaps the darkest--they were just men under earthly authority, who were quite innured to injustice masquerading as right. And I believe God answered that prayer in a complete and total sense, in at least one man--the centurion--that very afternoon. I think God gave him saving faith, and remitted all his sins.


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## Preach (Jun 12, 2005)

Bruce, do you think thay Jesus prayed a prayer in His heart or verbally that was not inscripurated (ex. "Father, not My will, but Thine will be done)? This is to say, since the Father always heres (carries out) the prayers of His only begotten, if Jesus was praying for those soldiers' eternal salvation, then would they not be saved?

What if Jesus was only praying for those particular sins of the moment (the soldier's carrting out the sentence of execution)? Is it possible that the Father could forgive those sins but somehow not forgive all their sins? 

"In Christ",
Bobby


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jun 12, 2005)

God will never accept atonement that is not made in the reality of its application to the sinner.

Was Christ praying as mediator or as a man following the commandment to love others?

Certain Scriptures come to mind:

John 5:19 Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

Did the Father forgive them?

Matthew 7:9 Or what man is there among you who, if his son asks for bread, will give him a stone?

Does the Father hear and do the will of the Son?

I don't think it was a forgiveness of sins that is saving. It was the particular sins of the moment - the crucifixion of the Son.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jun 12, 2005)

Bobby,
When I wrote "the sin" of his immediate tormentors, I meant the specific sin of crucifying the Lord of Glory. I believe the Father honors the Son by always hearing and answering his prayers. I don't think the will of Jesus in this case has any comparison to that will he expressed in the garden. I think his prayer here is consistent with the Father's will. Thus I think that _this sin_ in fact will not be held against the Roman soldiers, even at Judgment Day. But God's answers often come in ways that we do not expect (or express)--better ways. His grace is greater than what we ask for. And I think its consistent with the evidence--at least in the case of the centurion--to see the forgiveness being extended farther than a bare imputation of some single sin to Christ (how else could it be forgiven?), and to see a full and complete forgiveness extended, and saving grace bestowed.


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## andreas (Jun 13, 2005)

Larry,

in Luke 23:34 ,we have the fulfillment of the prophecy,

" Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors".Isa.53:12

In the first verse we have the fulfilment:"Father forgive them....

andreas.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 14, 2005)

Maybe He was praying for the people who repented. That may be a bit to simplistic, but that is how I have always taken it.

(Act 2:36) "Therefore let all the house of Israel know with certainty that God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah!"

(Act 2:37) When they heard this, they were pierced to the heart and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles: "Brothers, what must we do?"

(Act 2:38) "Repent," Peter said to them, "and be baptized, each of you, in the name of Jesus the Messiah for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

(Act 2:39) For the promise is for you and for your children, and for all who are far off, as many as the Lord our God will call."

(Act 2:40) And with many other words he testified and strongly urged them, saying, "Be saved from this corrupt generation!"

(Act 2:41) So those who accepted his message were baptized, and that day about 3,000 people were added to them.


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