# People are in the Covenant for Life - Discuss



## Peairtach (Jul 23, 2012)

This was prompted by a discussion with a friend and minister about which parents should have their children baptised.

Whether they believe or not, and become "of the covenant" as well as "in the covenant", covenant children are in the covenant for the rest of their lives, which is illustrated that they are never "rebaptised" unless there was something seriously wrong with their original baptism e.g. it wasn't Trinitarian.

Even in Hell, someone who has been "in the covenant" but not "of the covenant", but is now not "in the covenant", will be punished in the context of that he was once in the covenant and received certain covenantal privileges.

Those who are "of the covenant" as well as "in the covenant" are in the covenant for eternity.

What about those children born to professing believers, but aren't baptised - e.g. Reformed Baptist children? Are they in any sense "in the covenant" and in the visible Church?

Yes. But they haven't been formally and solemnly admitted to the covenant and visible Church.

What about those who maybe shouldn't have been baptised, because their parents or grand parents never showed any sign of grace?

As with marriage, it cannot be ignored that something has happened; a formal relationship has been established that maybe shouldn't have been established, but yet exists. Unless it is surely believed that the baptism should and can be annulled, these must be dealt with in the context of being to that extent, at least, in the covenant.

The only ones who are out of the covenant completely before death, are those who have committed the unforgiveable sin. These are impossible to identify with any certainty, and it is extremely unwise - or downright foolish, rather - for a pastor or someone else to try to identify such. But any such who were baptised as children, are unlikely to be looking for further covenantal privileges such as getting their children baptised or becoming communicant members.


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## malum in se (Jul 24, 2012)

Yes

Someone who is 'in the covenant' is a person who has received certain benefits (who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, and have shared in the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, (Hebrews 6:4-5 ESV)). Once you have received these, either part or all of them, they cant be unreceived. Sure you can be kept from receiving more of them by leaving the church, or excommunication, but that doesn't change the fact that you had them at one point in time. 

Also, being part of the covenant doesn't mean a person is saved or not, it just means they have benefited from it insofar as they have heard the word preached, and have at least witnessed (if not taken part in) the signs of the covenant, and had them explained.


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## rbcbob (Jul 24, 2012)

I will resist flogging this deceased Equus Caballus


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## Peairtach (Jul 24, 2012)

Well I'm obviously speaking from a Presbyterian perspective, Bob. But any thoughts on the subject - pro or contra, or in addition to, what I have said - from Reformed Baptists or Presbyterians would be welcome.


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## rbcbob (Jul 24, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> Well I'm obviously speaking from a Presbyterian perspective, Bob. But any thoughts on the subject - pro or contra, or in addition to, what I have said - from Reformed Baptists or Presbyterians would be welcome.



Richard I am afraid that because I cannot grant your premises as to who are "in the covenant" and/or "of the covenant" there can be no real progress in such a discussion and I don't want to get bogged down in another fruitless debate. Perhaps I am just getting old.


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