# Do You Know Your Ordained Leaders?



## RBachman (Apr 6, 2018)

this post picks up on another thread concerning women in the deaconate, and would you leave a church that did. 

This thread asks you: do you really know the essential views of your church Leaders? Do you know what exceptions they have taken to your church’s confession? Do you know their views on such things as scriptural inerrancy? Abortion? God’s mutability? Role of works in a believers salvations? Role of women?Reality of Hell and damnation?

I know my church leaders well, but I’ve not asked them all these questions. And I’m discovering that some neighbor church’s pastors in my denomination may in fact score badly on my quiz. And they are impacting the denomination! Maybe we should take a timeout and do an assessment of our leaders, showing the ‘elder whites’ the door before they let their demonic influence in God’s churches any more. Being a leader in Gods church is a great privilege for a very small number of Christian men. It is not a right. Both men and women members have a duty to support and obey their leaders, and to be on the lookout for false professors and error in those very leaders.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Apr 6, 2018)

Yes. Yes I do.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Apr 7, 2018)

I am going to ignore the infelicitous 'elder whites' implied pejorative, and just say that within "our" denomination (PCA), there are means for dealing with matters wherein an elder has departed from the confessional basis of the church. We need not use some 10-point checklist or quiz to determine these things if we are paying attention. Start here: If you have an issue with one of the ordained servants, then bring it before him. Go from there, per the established order of the church.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Jack K (Apr 7, 2018)

Being alert for error is good. But I'm unsure what tone and approach you are suggesting. If you mean to suggest hunting down officers with a quiz you've concocted, I urge a different approach. Back when I was an officer in a PCA church, if you had come to me with your questions I probably would have taken the time to answer you and to ask you more about your concerns for the church. But I also might have thought, and perhaps I would have even told you, that your approach was out of line.

Hitting up your church's officers with a self-made quiz designed to root out those who are a "demonic influence" would not be your place. It would suggest you have a larger concern with the session and presbytery who do have that job, and that you believe they are incapable or unwilling to do it, and therefore you have appointed yourself (you being wiser or more stalwart) to take over from them. Your actual motivation is surely not that bad, but this approach still has some of that feel and would come across that way, especially since your stated goal to expose some of them and "show them the door."

If you have concerns that officers are not being vetted properly, by all means bring it up to your session. Or if a particular officer says something that concerns you, ask him about it and follow up through other channels if necessary. And when officer candidates have been put up for election and you're going to have to vote for them, go ahead and question them (respectfully) so you can make an informed vote. It's great to get to know your church officers. But coming at them with suspicion and a quiz designed to force their ouster is not the same thing.

Reactions: Like 2 | Amen 1


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## NaphtaliPress (Apr 7, 2018)

I presume 'elder whites' refers to abortion defending persons like former Elder White still in a run off for Dem. candidate for governor in Texas.

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## Edward (Apr 7, 2018)

RBachman said:


> And I’m discovering that some neighbor church’s pastors in my denomination may in fact score badly on my quiz.



I find your accusations unusual since in your area 1) a long time PCA pastor and his church departed from the PCA for ECO rather than seeking to subvert the presbytery and denomination (and while I think they have wrong views, they did the right thing) and 2) in another PCA church, when a public scandal arose, it was quickly (for a church court) dealt with. 

And in nearby North Texas Presbytery, I can think of 5 pastors in my immediate circle who have been disciplined over the past generation (4 I knew personally, the other whose ministry I had some contact with). 

While I have decried the direction the PCA seems to be heading (and the TRs should be even louder in their protests), church discipline is something that I have seen practiced. 

If you have evidence, bring accusations and charges to the appropriate church courts. If you don't, apologize publicly to the elders of Houston Metro that you have wrongly accused.


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## RBachman (Apr 7, 2018)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I presume 'elder whites' refers to abortion defending persons like former Elder White still in a run off for Dem. candidate for governor in Texas.


yes, perhaps I err'd in assuming most on this board were aware of that situation and would understand my reference. My apologies for being unnecessarily vague.

Reactions: Like 1


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## SolaScriptura (Apr 7, 2018)

Randall - I'm just curious about your signature line. It says "Choir Tenor PCA" I've thankfully never heard of a PCA church with such an awful name. Is this some new fangled church name? Or are you seeking to imply that your presence in your church's choir somehow matters officially?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Gforce9 (Apr 7, 2018)

Randall,
I have had lots of good conversations with the men in Session. I know that I have disagreements with each one, though mostly semantical ones. What I am certain about is this: God has given great men to Westminster to care for our souls and rule with integrity and wisdom. It may be that we are odd in that regard, but we are blessed to have them and I'm particularly grateful for the men in our Session.....each one I can call without hesitation, brother and friend.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Apr 7, 2018)

I highly look up to my session, especially the elder assigned to our family.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tom Hart (Apr 8, 2018)

I am unsure of what is meant by the language and tone of the OP. Is it being suggested that our elders and pastors are secretly harbouring false, dangerous and possibly heterodox views? If a member does have such concerns (for example, due to something mentioned in a sermon or meeting), then why not first address them privately?


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## Tom Hart (Apr 8, 2018)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I presume 'elder whites' refers to abortion defending persons like former Elder White still in a run off for Dem. candidate for governor in Texas.



Thank you for clarifying that. I was confused due to the absence of capital letters, and so I thought it was a reference to some racial issue.

Reactions: Like 1


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