# Is this legitamate Post-millennial thought?



## raderag (Aug 15, 2005)

ON this verse:


> Phil 2:10so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.



I heard someone, who is reformed, teach that this verse means that the entire world will eventually be converted. It could have been hyperbole, but I doubt it.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 15, 2005)

As a postmillennialist I do not see this verse as logically necessary to postmillennialism. I always placed this verse in the context of judgment. Interestingly enough, however, is Revelation 2:26, "The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star."

John takes the promises of Psalm 2 and applies them to this lifetime! This verse cannot be dismissed as "mere heaven talk," for there will be 'nations' in heaven. There will be no political entities in the eternal state.


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## raderag (Aug 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> As a postmillennialist I do not see this verse as logically necessary to postmillennialism. I always placed this verse in the context of judgment. Interestingly enough, however, is Revelation 2:26, "The one who conquers and who keeps my works until the end, to him I will give authority over the nations, 27 and he will rule them with a rod of iron, as when earthen pots are broken in pieces, even as I myself have received authority from my Father. 28 And I will give him the morning star."
> 
> John takes the promises of Psalm 2 and applies them to this lifetime! This verse cannot be dismissed as "mere heaven talk," for there will be 'nations' in heaven. There will be no political entities in the eternal state.



So, if you would correct someone that used that verse in that way? 

What about the idea that ALL people will be converted? (I am not talking about universalism, just everyone alive at the time).


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## RamistThomist (Aug 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by raderag_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



I would probably say no. Christ spoke of the wheat and the tares. Howver, we must remember that it is a "wheat" field and not a "tare" field.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 15, 2005)

Postmillennialism: The Millennium Not A Perfect or Sinless State by Loraine Boettner




> There seems to be a general impression that when we speak of a Millennium we mean a time when the world will be sinless or practically so. We do believe that a time is coming when the people of the world in general will be Christians, a time when Satan will no longer be able to 'deceive the nations' (Rev. 20;3). But we do not believe that the Kingdom in this world, even in its millennial fullness and power, will be a perfect or sinless state. Nor do we believe that every person will be a Christian. Yet it is not uncommon to find pre- and amillennial writers inferring or declaring that such are the tenets of Postmillennialism, and using such terms as 'ideal perfection,' 'a perfect world,' 'convert every individual,' and 'sinless perfection,' to describe the postmillennial position. No representative Postmillennialist teaches those things. Certainly such was not the teachings of Hodge, Dabney, Shedd, Strong, Snowden, or Warfield. Nor is it the teaching of Scripture.
> 
> Sinless perfection belongs only to the heavenly life. As long as the person remains in this world, even though he is a truly born again Christian, remnants of the old nature still cling to him, and he falls victim to some extent to such things as selfish desires, envy, jealousy, impatience, etc. All of us still have occasion to say with Paul, 'The good which I would I do not; but the evil which I would not, that I practice' (Rom. 7:19). Sanctification is a process which is not complete until death. As long as the present world continues all those born into it are born members of a fallen, sinful race. They can be brought to a state of saving knowledge of God and be turned to a righteous life only through the regenerating and sanctifying power of the Holy Spirit. Some experience regeneration in early childhood, others in middle life or old age, and some never experience it at all. There will always remain problems to vex the saints. In a Christian environment temptations do become much more limited in scope and intensity, but they are never completely eliminated. The wheat and the tares continue to grow together until the harvest, which is the end of the world.
> 
> ...


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## raderag (Aug 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by raderag_
> ...



So, what are you saying no to? correcting him?


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## Puritanhead (Aug 15, 2005)

Ughh No-ooh


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## Texas Aggie (Aug 15, 2005)

Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged the God of the Israelites.... but we have no indication whatsoever of his conversion and subsequent salvation.


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## RamistThomist (Aug 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Texas Aggie_
> Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged the God of the Israelites.... but we have no indication whatsoever of his conversion and subsequent salvation.



Right, I wouldn't place this verse in the context of soteriology. There are other verses that are more clear on this topic.

One can make the case, however, the he did eventually acknowledge God, but that is neither here nor there.

[Edited on 8--15-05 by Draught Horse]


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## rgrove (Aug 15, 2005)

I've not read anyone use that particular verse for postmillennialism and would agree that it relates to judgment, not the state of the new covenant in history.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 15, 2005)

I believe the kingdom of the world will become the kingdom of the Lord and of the Messiah.

The Bible says: {MODERATED}



> Then the seventh angel blew his trumpet, and there were loud voices in heaven, saying, *"œThe kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ*, and he shall reign forever and ever."
> (Revelation 11:15)



[Edited on 8-15-2005 by webmaster]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by raderag_
> ON this verse:
> 
> 
> ...



Matthew Henry:



> In honour; so he had a name above every name, a title of dignity above all the creatures, men and angels. And in power: Every knee must bow to him. The whole creation must be in subjection to him: things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth, the inhabitants of heaven and earth, the living and the dead. At the name of Jesus; not at the sound of the word, but the authority of Jesus; all should pay a solemn homage. And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord--every nation and language should publicly own the universal empire of the exalted Redeemer, and that all power in heaven and earth is given to him, Matt. xxviii. 18. Observe the vast extent of the kingdom of Christ; it reaches to heaven and earth, and to all the creatures in each, to angels as well as men, and to the dead as well as the living.--To the glory of God the Father. Observe, It is to the glory of God the Father to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; for it is his will that all men should honour the Son as they honour the Father, John v. 23. Whatever respect is paid to Christ redounds to the honour of the Father. He who receiveth me receiveth him who sent me, Matt. x. 40.


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