# Pagan imagery ?



## Richard King (Mar 29, 2007)

A while back in an effort to integrate art with highway engineering certain images were to be placed on portions of a new expressway being built here.
If you have ever been to Scotsdale you know this can be a pretty neat idea.

One such image was "Windy Man" which was sort of an homage to the endless resource of wind that we have here on the South Plains.
http://www.dot.state.tx.us/LBB/projects/phases.htm

It offended some residents who said it was a pagan god. A sledgehammer destroyed it before the road was finished. 
Someone vandalized it and the word on the streets is it was religious folks. I suspect drunk teens. (in the back of my mind I can hear my mom's voice from long ago when she was raising four boys who broke stuff daily..."We just can't have nice things!" )

I thought of it today when I was reading about a man who bought a Kokopelli tshirt in New Mexico and was told that the flute playing skinny man taken from Navaho rock paintings is a pagan god of fertility. And to wear it was to promote false gods.

That reminded me of a charismatic preacher who once told me that until I removed the Southwest style imagery from my house I was inviting demons.
This same preacher insisted that a couple who named their daughter Stormy should change the name immediately so as not to curse the child further.

I was just wondering what 'yall' say about the power of pagan imagery. I suppose this discussion should even go so far as to ask if you are wearing an Irish Tshirt with a four leaf clover are you promoting "luck" ?


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## tewilder (Mar 29, 2007)

Let's take another example. Say, the name "Richard". It means powerful ruler. The root is "reich", i.e. rule, as in the Nazi 1000 Year Reich. Of course the 1000 years is a millennial symbol meaning "power" so one could say that that Nazi 1000 Year Reich could also be called the Nazi Richard. Supposed this same symbolizing humanistic and pagan power is reinforced with the name King. Now that is really bad! It is humanisic pagan rule, doubly stated! 

So are you going to run out and change your name, and should everyone else with one of these names of pagan origin do the same?


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## Davidius (Mar 29, 2007)

tewilder said:


> Let's take another example. Say, the name "Richard". It means powerful ruler. The root is "reich", i.e. rule, as in the Nazi 1000 Year Reich. Of course the 1000 years is a millennial symbol meaning "power" so one could say that that Nazi 1000 Year Reich could also be called the Nazi Richard. Supposed this same symbolizing humanistic and pagan power is reinforced with the name King. Now that is really bad! It is humanisic pagan rule, doubly stated!
> 
> So are you going to run out and change your name, and should everyone else with one of these names of pagan origin do the same?



Good point!

however...[picky german major correction]The word "Reich" actually means "empire." [/picky german major correction] But the point still stands!


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## Richard King (Mar 29, 2007)

tewilder said:


> Let's take another example. Say, the name "Richard". It means powerful ruler. The root is "reich", i.e. rule, as in the Nazi 1000 Year Reich. Of course the 1000 years is a millennial symbol meaning "power" so one could say that that Nazi 1000 Year Reich could also be called the Nazi Richard. Supposed this same symbolizing humanistic and pagan power is reinforced with the name King. Now that is really bad! It is humanisic pagan rule, doubly stated!
> 
> So are you going to run out and change your name, and should everyone else with one of these names of pagan origin do the same?



I know!
Richard's rule!!!
but other words??? 
I have considered before that Saturday probably "honors" Saturn. Thursday is probably for Thor. Monday is probably MOON day.
You would be very quiet if you didn't say things with pagan roots'.

So I have to become sort of Humpty Dumpty on the issue, which isn't fair is it?

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in a rather scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean - neither more nor less.' 
-- Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass 

...but then again, words mean things ARRRGH


So what about the imagery? 
Ban Windy Man? Or embrace him?
I don't feel that wearing a tshirt with picture of Kokopelli makes me a worshiper of pagan gods BUT I am inconsistent because 
I DO judge a person wearing a Che Guevera tshirt or one with a zodiac sign to probably be an exact opposite of me. Arrrgh again.


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## gwine (Mar 29, 2007)

Richard King said:


> So what about the imagery?
> Ban Windy Man? Or embrace him?
> I don't feel that wearing a tshirt with picture of Kokopelli makes me a worshiper of pagan gods BUT I am inconsistent because
> I DO judge a person wearing a Che Guevera tshirt or one with a zodiac sign to probably be an exact opposite of me. Arrrgh again.



The libertarian in me says let him be. In this fallen world we will not have everything as God intended. OTOH, I would not, and do not, want something such as Windy Man on my property. It brings up New Age thinking for me. Not sure about Kokopelli. I probably would have bought a keyring with him on it without guilt, showing my inconsistency.

Now, if I had been on the board that decided whether to have Windy Man, I would have voted no but let stand the decision to put him up if the majority voted so. That to me would be using the Scripture to guide my life.

And I know what you mean about t-shirt art. I always assume people are what they wear, at least for adults. Bad thinking on my part, but it is hard to avoid it.


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## tewilder (Mar 29, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Good point!
> 
> however...[picky german major correction]The word "Reich" actually means "empire." [/picky german major correction] But the point still stands!



Did not used to. It is part of the name of all sorts of petty chieftains, of the Visigoth, Lombard, etc. tribal invasions. As in Rodrick (famous ruler) and so on. 

Hords of hispanic names are made up of these roots. For example, Rodriquez, meaning of Rodrick's clan.


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## tewilder (Mar 29, 2007)

Richard King said:


> I know!
> Richard's rule!!!
> but other words???
> I have considered before that Saturday probably "honors" Saturn. Thursday is probably for Thor. Monday is probably MOON day.
> ...



Same in Spanish, except for the two week days Domingo (Sunday) which was changed to Lord's Day ("domingo" from "dominus"-Lord, and Sabado (Saturday) meaning Sabbath. 

But Monday is Lunes, from luna=moon. Tuesday is Martes from Mars, god of war, Wednesday is Miercoles from Mercury, Thursday is Jueves from Jove, Friday is Viernes from Venus.

So you get:

Luna=Moon
Mars=Tyr
Mercury=Wodden
Jove=Thor
Venus=Frida

So deep pagan connections going all the way back to proto-Indoeuropean times are still in place in Western Europe and the whole Western Hemisphere now.


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