# Men without excuse



## chuckd (Apr 6, 2013)

_Rom 1:20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. 21 For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him, but they became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened._

Since proper honor and worship of God is only proclaimed in special revelation, how are men without excuse if they are only exposed to general revelation? It seems he is attacking the false religions of the Romans, but they are worshipping and honoring their gods as best as they know how without the word.


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## Edward (Apr 6, 2013)

Start with the proof texts appended to the Confession:

Although the light of nature, and the works of creation and providence do so far manifest the goodness, wisdom, and power of God, as to leave men unexcusable;[1] yet are they not sufficient to give that knowledge of God, and of His will, which is necessary unto salvation.[2] 

[1] ROM 2:14 For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: 15 Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another; 1:19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them. 20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse. PSA 19:1 The heavens declare the glory of God; and the firmament sheweth his handiwork. 2 Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night sheweth knowledge. 3 There is no speech nor language, where their voice is not heard. ROM 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. 2:1 Therefore thou art inexcusable, O man, whosoever thou art that judgest: for wherein thou judgest another, thou condemnest thyself; for thou that judgest doest the same things.

[2] 1CO 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual. 14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.


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## CharlieJ (Apr 6, 2013)

The argument is that natural knowledge is knowledge of the actual God, albeit in a partial way. Thus, when people took that knowledge and distorted it, making up polytheistic claims and bizarre worship, often including immoral acts, they were working against rather than with their natural knowledge. Furthermore, people usually don't live up to their gods, even after they've cut them down to size. Vermigli for instance stresses not how little the pagans knew but what poor use they made of that knowledge (cf. Stephen Grabill, Rediscovering the Natural Law, 113-14). 

If you read Martin Bucer's or Peter Martyr Vermigli's commentaries on Romans, they address the issue at some length. (It might also be in Vermigli's Loci Communes.) Calvin of course talks about it too, but I think sometimes it's nice to hear it from someone other than Calvin.


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## earl40 (Apr 6, 2013)

It seems to me you are asking how can God condemn people who never have heard of Jesus. In doing so you think the verse you cited does not apply to those people. Right?

The problem is that the beginning of Romans brings the entire world under Adam. This is why we have missionaries to spread His Word because we all should realize the entire world is either in Adam or in Christ. We all get "in Adam" by the fall and if we are blessed by God we get "in Christ". No one is sent to hell because they did not hear of Jesus but because of the work of Adam.


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## A5pointer (Apr 6, 2013)

18 For (AJ)the wrath of God (AK)is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth.

Like Charlie said, seems not to be a lack of revelation. The revelation is willfully suppressed.


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## Wayne (Apr 6, 2013)

In _No God But God_, Guiness and Seel make the very pertinent point that idolatry is _not_ a matter of seeking the true God erroneously. Rather, all idolatry and all false religions amount to seeking refuge _from_ the true God.

No God but God/Breaking With the Idols of Our Age: Os Guinness, John Seel: 9780802463364: Amazon.com: Books


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## chuckd (Apr 9, 2013)

Thanks for all of the replies. I guess then my question is, what specifically are they not excused of? Is it erroneous worship?

_Q. 60. Can they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature?

A. They who, having never heard the gospel, know not Jesus Christ, and believe not in him, cannot be saved, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, or the laws of that religion which they profess; neither is there salvation in any other, but in Christ alone, who is the Savior only of his body the church._

It seems the verse says it is possible to truly worship and honor God from the light of nature:
_So they are without excuse.
Why?
For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give thanks to him..._


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## A5pointer (Apr 9, 2013)

chuckd said:


> Thanks for all of the replies. I guess then my question is, what specifically are they not excused of? Is it erroneous worship?
> 
> _Q. 60. Can they who have never heard the gospel, and so know not Jesus Christ, nor believe in him, be saved by their living according to the light of nature?
> 
> ...



Only possible sans sin. All men willfully suppress the truth due to sin. Sin is not an excuse.


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