# re pro gay Redeemer staffer article



## lynnie (May 20, 2016)

http://christiannews.net/2016/05/16...hurch-plant-behind-transgender-restroom-plan/

I saw this on the Aquila report today. Is this unfair to Keller and "guilt by association" and maybe he didn't know, or maybe they could be in the process of dumping the guy?

But why would any church decline to comment? Wouldn't you say at least that you fully support scripture's teaching against homosexuality, but are handling the matter internally according to the BCO or church bylaws? Wouldn't you say something, no matter how minimal?

Am I naive and Redeemer has gone "gay is OK" and I missed it? I sure hope not. 

Thanks for any imput.


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## Edward (May 20, 2016)

1) The guy appears to not even be a member of Redeemer.

2) On the 'staff' page, he doesn't have his name on his email address, just 'support', and he doesn't have a Redeemer email address - it's gospelinlife.org where he does sermon orders and subscriptions. (It appears that someone else does duplication and shipping). 

3) Does Keller make all of the hiring decisions for groups affiliated with Redeemer, including folks so far down on the food chain that they have a generic email address?


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## Jack K (May 20, 2016)

Yep, that story smells unfair. In my days as a news manager, I would have labelled it a "hatchet job" and refused to run it, maybe disciplined the reporter. But that was back when journalistic standards like fairness still mattered to most readers.


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## lynnie (May 20, 2016)

I appreciate the imput.

I like the Aquila report; is it generally considered a good blog? I didn't think they would feature a "hatchet job".


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## Edward (May 20, 2016)

The Aquila Report used to be a solid aggregator of Reformed news. 

Now, they go for volume, not quality, and do not have the level of discernment that they once had. It is still useful for spotting things I might otherwise have missed, but it isn't what it once was.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 20, 2016)

From what I understand this gentlemen planted a church through Redeemer's "network" and is not "officially" related to the Redeemer PCA Church, just the wider parachurch entity. 


Now what networks et al have to do with Presbyterianism writ large is a whole nother matter, as they say.


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## Jack K (May 20, 2016)

I like the Aquila Report, too. But it it's more of a news compilation site (think Drudge Report) rather than a news generating site. This doesn't excuse Aquila from needing to make wise choices, but the main fault lies with the original reporter and news site that created and first ran the story.

It's pretty easy to attack the individual at the head of a large organization by finding some dirt on one of the many underlings. Reporters get tempted by this all the time, especially if they already have reasons they don't like the guy at the top. But a basic principle taught in journalism school (at least back in my day) is that you don't run with that kind of story unless you can link the dirt, or perhaps a cover-up, to the higher-ups. Recall how important this was in the Watergate stories. When the burglary first happened, no self-respecting news organization would have run a report on the burglary with a large picture of Nixon next to the story along with, perhaps, a few old quotes from Nixon strategically chosen to suggest he might secretly be a burglar-lover at heart. No, a bigger link than "these guys were loosely connected to the White House" had to be established first.

But that was an era where responsibility in journalism came first. It may be a while before we see an era like that again. The loss of that era is one reason I got out of the profession.


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## Edward (May 20, 2016)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> From what I understand this gentlemen planted a church through Redeemer's "network" and is not "officially" related to the Redeemer PCA Church



Editing post because I found the answer to my question here: http://www.redeemercitytocity.com/nyc

Redeemer network does claim Forefront as a plant.


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## ZackF (May 20, 2016)

Edward said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > From what I understand this gentlemen planted a church through Redeemer's "network" and is not "officially" related to the Redeemer PCA Church
> ...



I figured as much. Thank you.


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## lynnie (May 20, 2016)

from your link:

_The Redeemer City Ministry Program came about as a strategic partnership between Reformed Theological Seminary and Redeemer City to City with the goal to provide theological education and practical ministry training in New York City. RCM will prepare ministry leaders in the city for the city. RCM involves RTS providing a Master of Arts complemented by a subsequent year of practical training called the City Ministry Year provided by CTC. Learn more about RCM._

I figure RTS will deal with it even if R does not. They wouldn't let this go on in their partnership would they?


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## Edward (May 26, 2016)

I'll see your Fulgenzi and raise you a Tiffany Koch, the 'Ministry Director' at Redeemer West Campus.

Tim Keller’s Redeemer Presbyterian Ministry Director Regular Donor to Bernie Sanders Campaign 
http://christiannews.net/2016/05/26...tor-regular-donor-to-bernie-sanders-campaign/

"Tiffany Koch, the ministry director at the West Side campus of Redeemer Presbyterian Church, made 76 donations to Sanders since October." 

The issue, of course, isn't Bernie's socialism - that discussion belongs in P&G. But Bernie endorses homosexual 'rights' and late term abortions, and that is what is being supported. 

And the defenses I gave for Keller as to Fulgenzi certainly wouldn't extend to Koch.


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## NaphtaliPress (May 27, 2016)

Someone is posting a defense of what RPC will do (fire the guy); I'm pretty sure his analogy to Christians laying low as to the emperior cult is not accurate. The early Christians were persecuted because their rejection of it was so clear, right? https://www.facebook.com/eric.holmberg/posts/10209441528935401


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## C. M. Sheffield (May 27, 2016)

While I have serious concerns with Tim Keller's theology, this article is at best sloppy, or worst, just downright dishonest.


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## alexandermsmith (May 27, 2016)

Edward said:


> 1) The guy appears to not even be a member of Redeemer.
> 
> 2) On the 'staff' page, he doesn't have his name on his email address, just 'support', and he doesn't have a Redeemer email address - it's gospelinlife.org where he does sermon orders and subscriptions. (It appears that someone else does duplication and shipping).
> 
> 3) Does Keller make all of the hiring decisions for groups affiliated with Redeemer, including folks so far down on the food chain that they have a generic email address?



I don't think it's much of a defence to say that the guy is "so far down the food chain that they have a generic e-mail address". I thought we were talking about a church not a multi-national organisation. If Keller doesn't know what people working for his "organisation" are doing then he's to blame as much as the guy himself.


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## alexandermsmith (May 27, 2016)

C. M. Sheffield said:


> While I have serious concerns with Tim Keller's theology, this article is at best sloppy, or worst, just downright dishonest.



In what ways dishonest? What are the lies in the article?


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## Edward (May 27, 2016)

alexandermsmith said:


> I thought we were talking about a church not a multi-national organisation.



$24 million in revenue, $20 million in expenses. Worldwide distribution of publications in 15 languages. Joint venture with Reformed Seminary. Church planting in 19 foreign countries. 37 counselors on staff. 165 affiliate staff (doesn't include actual employees). I am talking about a multinational organization.


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## johnny (May 27, 2016)

Based on that facebook page it sounds like Mr Fulgenzi will be retrenched for this action.

If only he had learnt his Catechism.

Q. 83. Are all transgressions of the law equally heinous?
A. Some sins in themselves, and by reason of several aggravations, are more heinous in the sight of God than others.


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## Parakaleo (May 27, 2016)

Edward said:


> Tim Keller’s Redeemer Presbyterian Ministry Director Regular Donor to Bernie Sanders Campaign



This is so wrong on a number of levels.


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## TheOldCourse (May 29, 2016)

A fairly poor article, though I appreciate that the Aquila Report is still pushing back against the progressives in the denomination. I recall them being a fairly strong voice for the confessional elements of the PCA in the past. Now it seems like they've moved a little bit toward the center in the last few years in an attempt to be "balanced" in what they post.


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