# 1 Timothy 5:3-16



## tcalbrecht (May 12, 2008)

I was listening to John MacArthur today speak on his series called "The Fulfilled Family". Today he was addressing wives.

In the course of discussing women’s roles in the church, MacArthur turned to this passage and basically exegeted it to define another office within the church. Along side elders, deacons, and deaconesses, MacArthur defined what amounts to an office of widows based on this passage. According to MacArthur these widows were even a special task with in the church. Commenting on their duties, he says:



> Their areas of service likely included visiting the church's younger women, to provide teaching and counseling as well as perhaps visiting the sick and the afflicted and providing hospitality to travelers, such as itinerant preachers and evangelists. They probably had a ministry to children, as well, grandmothering on an extensive basis. By the way, in those days children were often left in the marketplace because their parents didn't want them. Abandoned boys were often trained to become gladiators. Abandoned girls were taken to brothels and raised to be prostitutes. And it is very likely that widows found such abandoned children, placed them in good homes so they could receive proper care. By the way, if today's church recognized this and had a group of godly widows with the same preoccupation, its younger women would greatly benefit. God wants those kind of widows to be active in the church, not to be retired from it.



With all due respect, I found MacArthur’s exegesis of the text lacking in many respects, not the least of which was the apparent confusion between the responsibilities of "older women" (Titus 2:3-5) and the care of older widows without families in this passage. 

I was wondering if anyone has heard this interpretation before of that text.

The transcript can be found here. God's Pattern for Wives, Pt. 2 :: Grace to You


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## Wannabee (May 12, 2008)

He appears to be referring to 
1 Timothy 5:9-10
9Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number, and not unless she has been the wife of one man, 10well reported for *good works*: if she has brought up children, if she has *lodged strangers*, if she has *washed the saints’ feet*, if she has *relieved the afflicted*, if she has *diligently followed every good work*. 

This is precipitated by verse 3, "Honor widows who are really widows." After Paul goes on to describe what widows are (including the above passage) he finishes with verse 16, "... do not let the church be burdened, that it may relieve those who are really widows."

The point being, the church relieves widows who fit this criteria as being "widows indeed." This is a privilege of church membership for women who are faithful and have no family to care for them once they're widowed. The ideal is that the family will care for them. But, in a case where either there is no family or they will not fulfill their God given responsibility to honor their parents then the church is to take care of them. 
But this same responsibility does not extend to all widowed women. We should do what we can for who we can, but those who are, according to this passage, widows indeed are absolutely to be provided for by the church.
I see how he sort of said it was an office, but didn't quite go there. It is a role women are to fulfill, and is a servant (deaconess) role. The previous two paragraphs seem to tie this together nicely. And the next several paragraphs also round out the discussion very well. He makes it pretty clear that this is what he addressing several paragraphs down, "We're stil in 1 Timothy 5."
I loved this statement:


> Here's what I want them to do, verse 14, "Therefore I want younger widows to...what?...get married, bear children, keep house." That's it. That's what it says. I just want them to fulfill their god-given responsibility...get married, bear children, keep house. Can you imagine standing up in the...any university and announcing that as the pattern for women? Get married, bear children, keep house. You'd be a dead duck. But it's true, I wish I had that platform but no one will give it to me.



Perhaps I missed something. But I thought he was responsible with the texts and biblical understanding of the ministry of and to widows within the church.


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## JBaldwin (May 12, 2008)

Seems to me there was a discussion about this a few months back, but I can't seem to find the thread.


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## tcalbrecht (May 12, 2008)

Wannabee said:


> Perhaps I missed something. But I thought he was responsible with the texts and biblical understanding of the ministry of and to widows within the church.



OK. Where in the text does Paul identify that this is a matter of future service to the Church? Reading vv 9-10, it’s clear that Paul is acknowledging past service on the part of these women (possibly before they were made widows) and identifying this past work as criteria for adding them to the list. I would agree with all you said about these widows having served the church being cared for by the church in their old age in the absence of family.

But this is not what MacArthur seems to be making out of this passage. He is taking it farther. He says:



> Now let me stop you right there. We know from the early church that they had elders and deacons and deaconesses. They're all mentioned in 1 Timothy chapter 3. *But apparently here they also had another group of servants in the church, special servants who were godly widows.* And apparently they were given some official status and they were put on a list, as verse 9 says, *as official servants in the church*. They were older women, at least sixty years of age. And they would have a primary responsibility of serving the younger women, of mentoring the younger women. And as there are qualifications for elders, and qualifications for deacons, and qualifications for deaconesses, so there are qualifications for these older women who are to be put on the official servant list for the mentoring of young women. The fact that there are qualifications given here supports the idea that they were serving in some kind of an official capacity. Apparently the early church kept lists of such women.



It does not appear from this passage that Paul is making any such list of special servants to the church made up exclusively of older, family-less widows. It just seems to me that MacArthur is reading much into the passage that’s not really there. 

But I'm really looking for confirmation from other commentators that would support MacArthur’s theory.


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## Contra_Mundum (May 12, 2008)

I think, If JMAC thought it was a biblical office, he would try to get GCC to institute such an office. And I think that would make the news. So, I don't think that's happening.

There are roles, and then there are offices. I think these widows are of the former, and not the latter. These are women to whom the church is giving its resources. And they (rightly) would be looking for a way to give back. Obviously, not every one of them would be an ideal mentor-type. But certainly some of them would be very good in that role.


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## tcalbrecht (May 12, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> I think, If JMAC thought it was a biblical office, he would try to get GCC to institute such an office. And I think that would make the news. So, I don't think that's happening.



GCC does not appear to use the term "officer" in the same sense as Presbyterians. I note that in addition to elders, deacons, and deaconesses, they appear to have an office of usher according to their bylaws. Ushers must meet the same qualifications as deacons, and are nominated and elected by the congregation just like other officers. 

In his message, MacArthur does not use the term officer, but rather speaks of "official servants in the church" with an "official servant list". Under this category he clearly lumps these 1 Timothy 5 widows in with elders and deacons by his interpretation of v. 9, "Do not let a widow under sixty years old be taken into the number". He takes this as a reference to the official servants list.



Contra_Mundum said:


> There are roles, and then there are offices. I think these widows are of the former, and not the latter. These are women to whom the church is giving its resources. And they (rightly) would be looking for a way to give back. Obviously, not every one of them would be an ideal mentor-type. But certainly some of them would be very good in that role.



The intent of 1 Timothy 5 seems to be to aid Timothy in determining which widows should be "numbered" to receive material assistance from the church. It does not appear to be setting out some sort of _quid pro quo_ of service for assistance. MacArthur seems to be saying that every woman put on the list is qualified for some duty within the church.


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## Wannabee (May 12, 2008)

I think I understand Tom. This is not necessarily an endorsement of all these commentaries. They're just representative of views on this passage.


> “As a widow (that is, of the ecclesiastical order of widowhood; a kind of female presbytery), let none be enrolled (in the catalogue) who is less than sixty years old.” These were not deaconesses, who were chosen at a younger age (forty was the age fixed at the Council of Chalcedon), and who had virgins (in a later age called widows) as well as widows among them, but a band of widows set apart, though not yet formally and finally, to the service of God and the Church. Traces of such a class appear in Ac 9:41. Dorcas herself was such a one. As it was expedient (see on 1Ti 3:2; Tit 1:6) that the presbyter or bishop should have been but once married, so also in her case. There is a transition here to a new subject. The reference here cannot be, as in 1Ti 5:3, to providing Church sustenance for them. For the restriction to widows above sixty would then be needless and harsh, since many widows might be in need of help at a much earlier age; as also the rule that the widow must not have been twice married, especially since he himself, below (1Ti 5:14) enjoins the younger widows to marry again; as also that she must have brought up children. Moreover, 1Ti 5:10 presupposes some competence, at least in past times, and so poor widows would be excluded, the very class requiring charity. Also, 1Ti 5:11 would then be senseless, for then their remarrying would be a benefit, not an injury, to the Church, as relieving it of the burden of their sustenance. Tertullian [On the Veiling of Virgins, 9], Hermas [Shepherd, 1.2], and Chrysostom [Homily, 31], mention such an order of ecclesiastical widowhood, each one not less than sixty years old, and resembling the presbyters in the respect paid to them, and in some of their duties; they ministered with sympathizing counsel to other widows and to orphans, a ministry to which their own experimental knowledge of the feelings and sufferings of the bereaved adapted them, and had a general supervision of their sex. Age was doubtless a requisite in presbyters, as it is here stated to have been in presbyteresses, with a view to their influence on the younger persons of their sex They were supported by the Church, but not the only widows so supported (1Ti 5:3, 4).
> wife of one man—in order not to throw a stumbling-block in the way of Jews and heathen, who regarded with disfavor second marriages (see on 1Ti 3:2; Tit 1:6). This is the force of “blameless,” giving no offense, even in matters indifferent.
> Robert Jamieson, A. R. Fausset, A. R. Fausset et al., A Commentary, Critical and Explanatory, on the Old and New Testaments, On Spine: Critical and Explanatory Commentary. 1 Ti 5:9.





> The credit of religion, and the reputation of Christian churches, are very much concerned in the character and behaviour of those that are taken into any employment in the church, though of a lower nature (such as the business of deaconesses), or that receive alms of the church; if they do not behave well, but are tatlers and busy-bodies, they will give occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully.
> Henry, Matthew. Matthew Henry's Commentary on the Whole Bible : Complete and Unabridged in One Volume, 1 Ti 5:3. Peabody: Hendrickson, 1996, c1991.





> It is not clear whether there was a distinct order of widows which performed specific duties, but the statement here about the enrolment of widows over sixty might suggest that. The age limit is somewhat perplexing, since Paul surely did not mean that no widows under that age were entitled to the church’s help. The enrolment must have been for some kind of specific Christian work. The past experience required is of an essentially practical kind. It reflected on the vital social impact of Christian women in the early church.
> Carson, D. A. New Bible Commentary : 21st Century Edition. Rev. ed. of: The new Bible commentary. 3rd ed. / edited by D. Guthrie, J.A. Motyer. 1970. 4th ed., 1 Ti 5:9. Leicester, England; Downers Grove, Ill., USA: Inter-Varsity Press, 1994.





> It follows that the word “widow” here is used in a slightly different sense from that in the preceding verses, viz. in the technical sense of one belonging to the order of widows, of which it appears from the word καταλεγέσθω there was a regular roll kept in the Church. We do not know enough of the Church institutions of the apostolic age to enable us to say positively what their status or their functions were, but doubtless they were the germ from which tile later development (of which see Bingham, bk. vii. ch. iv.) took its rise. We may gather, however, from the passage before us that their lives were specially consecrated to tile service of God and the Church; that they were expected to be instant and constant in prayer, and to devote themselves to works of charity; that the apostle did not approve of their marrying again after their having embraced this life of widowhood, and therefore would have none enrolled under sixty years of age; and generally that, once on the roll, they would continue there for their life. Enrolled (καταλεγέσθω); only here in the New Testament or (in this sense) in the LXX; but it is the regular classical word for enrolling, enlisting, soldiers, etc. Hence our word “catalogue.” In like manner, in the times of the Empress Helena, the virgins of tile Church are described as ἀναγεγραμμένας ἐν τωσͅ τῆς ἐκκλησίας κανόνι (Socr., i. 17), “registered in the Church’s register,” or list of virgins.
> The Pulpit Commentary: 1 Timothy, ed. H. D. M. Spence-Jones, 97.





> I Timothy 5:9
> Let none be enrolled as a widow (χηρα καταλεγεσθω [chēra katalegesthō]). Present passive imperative of καταλεγω [katalegō], old verb, to set down in an official list, only here in N.T. “Let a widow be enrolled,” the negative coming later, “having become of no less than sixty years” (μη ἐλαττον ἐτων ἑξηκοντα γεγονυια [mē elatton etōn hexēkonta gegonuia]). Second perfect active participle of γινομαι [ginomai]. For the case of ἐτων [etōn], see Luke 2:42. This list of genuine widows (verses 3 and 5) apparently had some kind of church work to do (care for the sick, the orphans, etc.). The wife of one man (ἑνος ἀνδρος γυνη [henos andros gunē]). Widows on this list must not be married a second time. This interpretation is not so clear for 3:2, 12; Titus 1:6.
> 
> Robertson, A.T. Word Pictures in the New Testament. 1 Ti 5:9.


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