# Lectio Divina



## Joseph Scibbe (Jan 16, 2012)

Some one (not here) reccomended I look at the practice of Lectio Divina. Can anyone fill me in on what it is?


----------



## Joseph Scibbe (Jan 16, 2012)

> It gives me great joy satisfactorily to answer your question, Dearest Joseph.
> 
> As this is an ancient practice and there has recently been a revival of said practice, I can confidently answer that _Yes_, someone, somewhere can fill you in on it.
> 
> ...



Oh Josh, I always appreciate your responses that overflow with wisdom and information.


----------



## BobVigneault (Jan 16, 2012)

Joseph, I apology for Joshua's disrespect and merry-Andrew reply. Here brother, let me Google that for you.

Let me google that for you


----------



## BobVigneault (Jan 16, 2012)

I am nothing if not brutally compassionate. I have suffered much for my sensitivity... and now it's your turn.


----------



## Wayne (Jan 16, 2012)

Several prior discussions here on this subject.

Among the best threads, this : http://www.puritanboard.com/f62/hearing-god-meditation-61934/

Instead, for something entirely different from the aforementioned practice, see this excellent web page about true spiritual meditation on the Word of God:

"Beating a Path to Heaven": English Puritan Meditation in the Seventeenth Century


----------



## JP Wallace (Jan 16, 2012)

Give it a miss and take Wayne's advice above and also see Joseph Hall's 'Art of Divine Meditation'

The works of the Right Reverend Joseph Hall - Joseph Hall - Google Books


----------



## toddpedlar (Jan 16, 2012)

Hey, we can make this a Beth Moore AND Lectio Divina thread 

[video=youtube_share;ArNVa27hBCs]http://youtu.be/ArNVa27hBCs[/video]


----------



## Pilgrim Standard (Jan 16, 2012)

toddpedlar said:


> Hey, we can make this a Beth Moore AND Lectio Divina thread
> 
> [video=youtube_share;ArNVa27hBCs]http://youtu.be/ArNVa27hBCs[/video]



Wha...? She reads the bible, then afterward they are pausing and waiting for Jesus to speak to them? What about when they were reading the Word? I don't get this at all.


----------



## BobVigneault (Jan 16, 2012)

It's about time evangelicals come up with something new, I'm getting tired of the Old time religion. We haven't had anything truly exciting since the Prayer of Jabez.


----------



## Pergamum (Jan 16, 2012)

About the Beth Moore video:

While I don't like the phraseology, it is significant that she just finished reading Scripture JUST prior to asking this. If we judge her comments charitably it would appear that she is merely asking us to do what the psalmists do, meditate on the Word. It appears that any "meditative-ness" that is advocated (at least in this clip) is joined closely to the Word.

---------- Post added at 02:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:55 AM ----------

p.s. What I believe IS dangerous is the following dangerous trend I have heard being taught by some evangelical missionaries here:

They are doing what is called "theosophic prayer" and are spending long minutes in silent meditation without focusing on a read text just prior, waiting for God to speak to them (usually about some past trauma that is blocking their spiritual growth). This practice appears highly meditative, divorced from the Written Word, and advocated by US-sent American missionaries.


----------



## py3ak (Jan 16, 2012)

If this article presents an accurate understanding of _lectio divina_, the difficulty seems to be that it could be taken to call for a meditation that is entirely subjective, divorcing the text from its scope, context, and intent. I'd imagine it's a continuum, with some profitable reflection arising because something was particularly applicable at the moment; and on the other hand, people taking as a word for them what a phrase or verse suggested, without regard to its native force. Obviously there is no difficulty with the first, and there is grave difficulty with the second: meditating on a misinterpretation isn't quite the same as meditating on the word itself.
Reading should be thoughtful and attentive; meditation should be grounded in the realities of the text.


----------



## DMcFadden (Jan 16, 2012)

Since I don't know Spanish, all those foreign words (lectio, meditatio, oratio, and contemplatio) just go over my head. Here is my best crack at making sense of them:

1.	Lectio – Does this refer to using a Lectionary in church? I don’t use the Lectionary, not that there is anything wrong with it.
2.	Meditatio – This probably refers to taking a nap or medicating oneself; maybe taking a nap because of your medication. My CPAP machine allows me to go into deep sleep where I can meditatio without drugs.
3.	Oratio – Isn’t this a self-contained piece for one voice usually with orchestral accompaniment, particularly in an opera?
4.	Contemplatio – Stay with for a time in the patio?

Judging by some of the uber-liturgical liberal churches I have heard of, one does not need a lectionary to fall asleep (with or without an operatic musical solo), but you would probably feel closer to God hanging out in the church patio of such a place.

Seriously, in my opinion it is part of the trendiness of the current age that we can simultaneously disdain the orthodoxy of the past, discarding those doctrinal verities about which the church has nearly always agreed for two millennia, while selectively embracing the external tappings of it when they are old, strange, and quaint. This rush to "relevance" coupled with coolness (a "smells and bells" approach) strikes me as faddish dilettantism. I agree with Wayne Sparkman's sage advice. Just ignore the rest of us in this thread.


----------



## Weston Stoler (Jan 17, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> About the Beth Moore video:
> 
> While I don't like the phraseology, it is significant that she just finished reading Scripture JUST prior to asking this. If we judge her comments charitably it would appear that she is merely asking us to do what the psalmists do, meditate on the Word. It appears that any "meditative-ness" that is advocated (at least in this clip) is joined closely to the Word.
> 
> ...



I was their and what you described is about what happened. Some people probably practiced lectio divina however that was not the point of this session.


----------



## JP Wallace (Jan 17, 2012)

One can, and perhaps should, put a positive spin on this as Pergamum have suggested. *But*, I think we should go carefully, last week Desiring God had an article on the blog, and then took it down, where actual Lectio Divina was recommended and spelled out (among other methods) as a means to improved prayer. The contemplation bit of *actual* Lection Divinia as taught by the mystics and Catholics aspires for Christ to speak outside of Scripture, which is very far removed from biblical mediation and is very close to new age type meditation as per Pergamum's second paragraph. 

This is worrisome to me. Whatever was being practiced Lectio Divinia is being promoted widely now it seems.


----------



## toddpedlar (Jan 17, 2012)

And if you follow the videos that come as "recommendations" after watching the one I posted, the context of Beth Moore's remarks (and the others) is made much clearer. In one of the other videos from this event, you'll see that Louie Giglio spoke also at that same session, asking how many in the stadium had heard God speak directly, distinctly and clearly to them as they underwent that exercise. The posted words "Jesus, speak to me" on the giant screens behind the "readers" makes it hard to imagine anything but this kind of extra-scriptural revealed 'voice of God' as that which the session was encouraging people to seek.


----------



## BobVigneault (Jan 17, 2012)

Christian Kabuki Theater.


----------



## BobVigneault (Jan 17, 2012)

Rock & Roll Worship Circus.


----------



## Jerusalem Blade (Jan 17, 2012)

I’m glad the topic of lectio divina has come up. In essence it is a Roman Catholic / New Age-embraced / and evidently now Christian-embraced dangerous mysticism. Here is a good introductory article on it: Lectio Divina: What it is, What it is Not, and Why It is a Dangerous Practice. It falls under the general rubric of the phenomena, Contemplative Prayer.

These folks at Lighthouse Trails Publishing (LHT) are dispensationalists; _*and yet*_ their discernment into spiritual attacks on the church is keen. We P&R were not meant to go it alone without any help from our brethren in other true communions, as though we alone had a monopoly on spiritual understanding and discernment.

One reason I have not re-joined Redeemer PCA in Manhattan is due to Contemplative Prayer being taught in the School of Gospel Foundations adult classes offered after the worship service. In one class, The Way of the Monk, this was taught (it is no longer listed due to the time elapsed). But LHT took note of it. 

A Redeemer article also instructs people in this practice. 

Another article on the Redeemer site by author and teacher, Jan Johnson, promotes Contemplative Prayer. Here are other significant places where she teaches this stuff. LHT noted this also.

I heard a sermon Tim Keller preached on 1/8/12, “Children of the Light” – an excellent sermon – where, when talking of meditation, he pointedly said that one is _*not*_ to let one’s mind go blank, as some mysticism urges, but to retain one’s mental activity, seeking and praising God with the mind and the heart. I was glad to hear this. Perhaps he has heard what is going on in some of the classes!

At any event, one of the attacks of the dragon in this age – intensifying as the end draws near – will be through false teachers. The contemplative stuff _is of a cloth_ with the false spirituality of the Catch the Fire / Toronto ‘Blessing’ / Holy Laughter travesties.

LHT has published an excellent book – in novel form – on these things, _Castles in the Sand_, by Carolyn Greene.


----------



## BobVigneault (Jan 17, 2012)

Thanks for checking in with some real substance on this topic Steve. If you hadn't Josh and I would just keep swapping mindless idlings. Your contribution is so much more appreciated and useful.


----------



## Jeff Burns (Jan 17, 2012)

Todd Friel actually talked about this on Wretched Radio, Monday the 9th, hour one. Good thoughts. 

Regarding the Beth Moore video, I could be charitable to her and Piper, but the Giglio one is a little less vague. He really seems to be saying extrabiblical revelation just happened.


----------



## Rufus (Jan 17, 2012)

BobVigneault said:


> It's about time evangelicals come up with something new, I'm getting tired of the Old time religion. We haven't had anything truly exciting since the Prayer of Jabez.



I can't wait for Gregorian chants to be in!


----------



## KMK (Jan 17, 2012)

BobVigneault said:


> Christian Kabuki Theater.



This is old hat. John Cage had this idea 60 years ago: 

[video=youtube;gN2zcLBr_VM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gN2zcLBr_VM&feature=related[/video]


----------



## Pilgrim (Jan 17, 2012)

Steve, 

Thanks for this post, brother. Pastor Ken Silva has also posted quite frequently on the subject of evangelicals and contemplative spirituality. If I'm not mistaken Tim Keller has figured prominently in many of the posts. 

A few years ago brother. Silva posted about this being promoted at New Orleans Baptist Seminary and he was denounced by some NOBTS bloggers as an extremist, a heresy hunter, etc. (I think this was how I first became aware of his site.) While I thought him to be somewhat abrasive at the time, I didn't doubt his account. But upon visiting the seminary in 2009, I heard it straight from one of the professors in such a clear manner that I was taken aback. 

I don't even recall how the topic came up, but in a small meeting that was a preview session for that department for the benefit of prospective students, he said there was "something we've missed" with regard to the spiritual life and that he had found the answer in these Roman Catholic practices. He even undertook some studies at a local RC institution in an attempt to fill this gap. If revivalistic Baptists or evangelical seeker-sensitive type ministries is what he meant by "we" then there is indeed something lacking in this department among many of them. For some reason I couldn't bring myself to ask if he was familiar with the Puritans and the kinds of works posted here by Pastor Wallace and Wayne Sparkman. 

The kind of mysticism promoted by the likes of Henry Blackaby and Beth Moore does seem to be quite popular among Southern Baptists. I don't know about Blackaby, but Moore's influence is far and wide among women's ministries, including those of some PCA congregations.


----------



## Pergamum (Jan 18, 2012)

Rufus said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > It's about time evangelicals come up with something new, I'm getting tired of the Old time religion. We haven't had anything truly exciting since the Prayer of Jabez.
> ...



I hope self-flagellation makes a come-back. That way bullies won't have to say, "Stop hitting yourself..stop hitting yourself" but could merely watch....


----------



## cajunhillbilly53 (Jan 19, 2012)

It smacks too much of Eastern mysticism and Hinduism/Buddhism. I have real problems with those types of practices. It is based on a faulty view of God and how He reveals Himself to mankind. Avoid at all cost.

---------- Post added at 12:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:58 AM ----------




Pergamum said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > BobVigneault said:
> ...



yes this Sunday at your local church join us as we beat ourselves with whips to show how contrite we are towards God. Not me.


----------

