# Christianity and Naziism



## Joe Keysor (Jul 3, 2005)

Has anyone else run across attempts to link Christianity to Naziism? Here are a couple of examples:
http://www.nobeliefs.com/henchmen.htm

http://www.stephenjaygould.org/ctrl/quotes_hitler.html

These are not just eccentric websites. A holocaust video checked out from the local library said that centuries of Christian antisemitism made the Jews Hitler's natural target. A major book on the Holocaust published by Oxford University Press (The Holocaust in Historical Context) admits that Naziism was hostile to and different from Christianity, but still says it was Christianity that started the problem by marginalizing and condemning the Jews.

This also came up often on a Jewish anti-Christian website (www.jewsforjudaism.com), a good place for some pre-evangelism.

Does anyone know of a Christian response to these charges and accusations? I wrote an essay myself and put it on the internet (www.bedfordgaol.com) - as far as i know nothing else has been written on the Holocaust from a biblical point of view. I would be glad to find out about some other responses to this. Luther has also been unjustly criticized and not defended enough as far as I know. 

Actually, Hitler's roots humanly speaking go back to the 19th century rejection of Christianity, not to the reformation or to Roman Palestine. Some German thinkers expressed the basic ideas of Naziism in the 19th century.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 3, 2005)

The arguments they present are terrible. Their case would be much better if they could show Christ himself commanding us to kill people. This is the genetic fallacy with a vengeance.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 3, 2005)

It's important to remember that the Nazi party stood for the National _Socialist_ Party. Hitler's views on Aryan racial superiority are directly linked to 19th century Darwinianism. Hitler's persecution of the Confessing Church (not to mention the atrocities he committed against all sorts of people) is proof positive that his views were antithetical to Christianity (which is not to say that I fully endorse the Confessing Church). Dietrich Bonhoeffer certainly didn't think of Hitler as a Christian. This resource may also be helpful.



> First they came for the Communists, and I didn´t speak up, because I wasn´t a Communist. Then they came for the Jews, and I didn´t speak up, because I wasn´t a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I didn´t speak up, because I was a Protestant. Then they came for me, and by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
> 
> by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945





> Hitler extended his rationalizations into religious doctrine, claiming that those who agreed with and taught his "truths," were "true" or "master" religions, because they would "create mastery" by avoiding comforting lies. Those that preach love and tolerance, "in contravention to the facts," were said to be "slave" or "false" religions. The man who recognizes these "truths," Hitler continued, was said to be a "natural leader," and those who deny it were said to be "natural slaves." "Slaves," especially intelligent ones he claimed, were always attempting to hinder masters by promoting false religious and political doctrines. Many Nazis thus regarded Christianity as a cowardly creed founded deliberately by Jews, and hoped to see it replaced with a reborn Germanic paganism based partly on Norse myth and partly on the principles of National Socialism.
> 
> Source: see link above



[Edited on 7-3-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## biblelighthouse (Jul 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> If the Nazis thought that they were true Christians would they say that they were "true Jews, ones who were Jews inwardly?"
> 
> [Edited on 7-3-2005 by Paul manata]



:bigsmile: Excellent point!


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 3, 2005)

Different groups of people are always looking for reasons to place themselves on a morally superior plane to their enemies. That this has happened among people calling themslves "Christian" should not be surprising. That it should be so candidly admitted and repudiated by true Christians is surprising--if we are to take typical identification-behavior as a standard of reference.

Exhibit A: Muslims attempt to blackmail Christians by pointing to the Crusades (past and present). But mention to them the wars of Islamic expansion that placed North Africa, and the Levant; later Palestine, Syria, and Asia Minor; then Constantinople, the Balkans, and Iberia under the heel of the Caliphs--then they protest that these were all liberations, God ordained, bloodless, etc. etc. etc. I once had an Imam tell me that the Egyptians welcomed the Islamic armies as benefactors. So, "one set of rules for you--a different set for me," is the order of the day for Muslims.

Exhibit B: Before Rome (the pagan Empire) destroyed the political Jewish nation, the Jewish nation (which had special religious treatment and exemptions within the structure of the Empire) they colluded together to extirpate the Christian faith. All one has to do is read the Acts and the Epistles to find the testimony of a politically powerless and persecuted (but fervent) faith against those who were both more numerous (at first) and politically powerful and connected. For examples: John19:6; Acts 9:1; 13:50; 17:13; 1 Thes. 2:14-16. Examples can also be found in secular literature.

Point this out (not as an apology or by way of justification of wicked deeds by so-called Christians) to show that "Christians" aren't the only group with blood on its hands, and see if those who self-identify with that group today don't offer excuses and rationales, or call you a liar--rather than acknowledge that "if you are guilty by association, then I am too."

Oppression of minorities is not the exclusive provenance of Christians. In fact, a fair-minded reading of history would reveal that Christian nations have been oddly (again, if typical behavior is to taken as a norm) gracious to outsiders and minorities, Jews included. The politicization of the church has led to various anti-Christian behaviors in nearly any case one cares to investigate. I predict that tomorrow's Christians will have to repudiate the rather public and ugly statements of many of today's Christians--leaders and laity alike--in regard to the "muslim world." Many of them sound like statements lifted right out of the speeches of virulent and hostile _muslim_ clerics directed against "the west," only with the identities of the heroes and villians reversed.

That Luther turned rather unkind toward the Jews in his day (he started out with a better attitude) is a matter of record. However, attributing Naziism to Luther--or rather Nazi racial bigotry to Luther, or Lutheranism, or Protestantism, or Christianity, or the Germans--is both illogical and smelling vaguely of racism/bigotry itself. It is the attitude that says,


> I don't have to deal with the issues that arise from our differences, be they cultural, political, religious, or what-have-you. You are a Xxxxxx, therefore all your attitudes are tainted with elitism, and your arguments/statements are unworthy of rational discourse.


In other words, he claims he has no causality to demonstrate, no compulsion to show how bigotry must arise from tenets that militate against it, no obligation to explain the vastly different attitudes of a Corrie ten Boom from a SS Stormtrooper.

As to where to find corrective thinking, or essays on-line--you might try looking up Francis Schaeffer's work for general reference to the replacement of the biblical mindest with the Enlightenment mindset; any writer (even war-time German neo-orthodox) who cogently exposes the damage done by the politicization of the church--when the church can no longer speak prophetically against sin in high and low places; Rushdoony is bound to have written an essay or two on this subject because of its 20th century cultural manifestations; and lastly, I would simply point to any author who clearly exposits the Scripture especially as it relates to the Christian command to love--even love one's enemies, and ask the question, 

"How can this religion be responsible for producing its antithesis?"


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## Texas Aggie (Jul 4, 2005)

Get ready... this is just the beginning.

The world is going to link Christianity with all types of abominations (and there will be nothing you can do to stop it).

Linking Christianity with the Nazis is a great way of saying that we are "intolerant." After all we despise diversity, alternate lifestyles, pagan cultures and various world religions. There will come a day when we "tolerate" ourselves right into the tribulation.

In addition, the sovereignty of God allowed the persecution of the Jews (it was the will of God). Now, you as a Christian can not deny this. You can not deny how your God allowed the slaughter of six million Jews. The world will ask: What kind of God do you worship?... and they will want no part of it. 

What a wonderful link..... expect much more to follow.


[Edited on 7-4-2005 by Texas Aggie]


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

Matt, what is your view on eschatology?


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## Texas Aggie (Jul 4, 2005)

Adam,

I am not well studied on the end times, but as of now, I believe we a going in one direction according to God's predetermined plan. As far as my eschatology, I can honestly say I really don't know exactly.

I "tend to believe" that there will be a rapture of those who "walk with God" as Enoch and Noah. I believe we (the elect) are to "watch" and be "ready" for the second coming of the Lord. I think the "Day" that Noah entered into the Ark is significant.... but I have no idea what it means.

We are given information about Noah.... it started to rain on the 17th day, he was sealed in the ark seven days prior (meaning he entered the ark on the 10th day), this also occurred on the second month. Not sure why we are given these days... they may be related to the time and season of a particular Holy Day (the feast of Atonement occurs on the 10th Day).

These may be the times we are to watch for the thief in the night (just a guess, I really don't know) But I do think the days represent something (why else would He give them to us)?

At any rate, I'm not so sure there will be many of us raptured (I don't know). I think we are to be "ready." We are to be ready for His return and caught in the air with Him.... or we are to be ready to go into the tribulation (a trial by fire so to speak). Again, I really do not have a firm grasp on the end times at this point in my life.

I tend to believe there will be a tribulation (3.5 years tribulation & 3.5 years of the great tribulation). Seven years total. Christ returns again with 1000 year reign prior to the Great White Throne Judgment.

Again, I am not well studied on the end times and I would like to dedicate some time towards the topic.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 4, 2005)

WOuld you call the view that you have (or are aware of) dispensational or no?


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## Texas Aggie (Jul 4, 2005)

I suppose my belief of the end times would be labeled as dispensationalist because I view the world as strictly governed by God. He is "œadministering" its affairs according to His predetermined plan from before the foundation was laid. This plan is wrought in various stages of His revelation in the passage of time.

With this said, I do not believe that the revelations of God apply to only the dispensations (or time periods) in which they are accomplished. For example, we are still under the Adamic covenant.... it still applies to us, not only to that dispensation. The Noahic covenant still applies to us, not just that "œdispensation." The Mosaic Covenant still applies to us. These three are just examples.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 4, 2005)

I can accept that more claptrap like this will follow, but not in any eschatologically signficant way. Remember, the "we are about to go through tribulation" mindset could have only begun in America: the rest of the Christian world is already in tribulation.



> I suppose my belief of the end times would be labeled as dispensationalist because I view the world as strictly governed by God. He is "œadministering" its affairs according to His predetermined plan from before the foundation was laid. This plan is wrought in various stages of His revelation in the passage of time.



Almost all Reformed schools of eschatology hold to this belief that God governs history. Indeed, that is why I am a postmillenialist, but that's beside the point. The amillennialist can make a strong case that God's periods of self-revelation of eschatological importance, and so on...




> For example, we are still under the Adamic covenant.... it still applies to us, not only to that dispensation. The Noahic covenant still applies to us, not just that "œdispensation."



In both cases we are called to multiply the earth and take dominion, that seems kind of optimistic.

For the others, I didn't get off on my postmil sidetrack just then. My first sentence was relevant to the thread.


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## Joe Keysor (Jul 4, 2005)

> The arguments they present are terrible.



I have debated with some people on this and they do not want facts, reason, logic, and evidence. Their sole desire is to attack Christianity. Only God can break through their blindness, but still we need to contend for the faith.




> Hitler's views on Aryan racial superiority are directly linked to 19th century Darwinianism.



And to other things as well (such as German Romantic philosophy). Darwin's leading defender in Germany in the 19th century was a man named Ernst Haeckel. He was much less cautious than Darwin and used Darwinism to argue for racism, militarism, eugenics, and racial supremacy of blond blue-eyed nordic types.




> Hitler's persecution of the Confessing Church (not to mention the atrocities he committed against all sorts of people) is proof positive that his views were antithetical to Christianity



J.S. Conway's book The Nazi Persecution of the Churches (Regent College Publishing) proves Hitler to have been a deadly enemy of Christianity. His quoted Christian statements were designed to deceive and to get votes.

About Niemoller, there is a lot of information about him. here is a good link: www.history.ucsb.edu/faculty/marcuse/projects/niem/njm415/NatJewMonthly415.htm

Hueguenot's link quotes Hitler's Table Talk to prove his hostility to Christianity. Reputable historians all accept it, but people who claim Hitler was a Christian say the book was edited by Bormann and not reliable.



> If the Nazis thought that they were true Christians would they say that they were "true Jews, ones who were Jews inwardly?"



Good point, for those who are capable of thinking logically and have an understanding of Christian doctrine!!!

I am familiar with Schaeffer's work and have a read a number of his books. His general principles apply but he didn't discuss National Socialism in-depth that I know of.




> Get ready... this is just the beginning.
> 
> The world is going to link Christianity with all types of abominations (and there will be nothing you can do to stop it).


We can't stop it, but we can contend for the truth. I think this is part of God's will for us (in different ways) whether people listen or not.





> In addition, the sovereignty of God allowed the persecution of the Jews (it was the will of God). Now, you as a Christian can not deny this. You can not deny how your God allowed the slaughter of six million Jews. The world will ask: What kind of God do you worship?... and they will want no part of it.



They want no part of a God of wrath who judges and who not merely allows but sends war and disaster as the bible says repeatedly. They also want no part of a God of love and mercy who requires repentance and obedience. They are without excuse.


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## Texas Aggie (Jul 4, 2005)

Good points Joe.


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## Joe Keysor (Jul 6, 2005)

Here are two links for essays that are pretty good I think, but very short and limited.

http://kevin.davnet.org/essays/hitler.html
http://www.trueorigin.org/holocaust.asp


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 10, 2006)

Third Reich Bible


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 10, 2006)

Seeing as how Naziism replaces religion with the state and nationalism, I don't see how anyone could like orthodox Christianity to Naziism.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 10, 2006)

*Hitler is an Anti-Christ Apostate Hellbound Infidel*



> _Originally posted by Joe Keysor_
> Has anyone else run across attempts to link Christianity to Naziism?


 I think this myth warrants refutation in an erudite blog article sometime in the future. I know very well about Nazi persecution of the churches and their temporary expedients. German schoolchildren were told to regard Hitler as their Lord and Savior. Hitler may subvert and use Christian platitudes, but he denies all the tenets of Christianity. As Dietrich Bonhoeffer says, HITLER IS ANTI-Christ!!!

At various times, the Nazis flip-flopped from pseudo-Christian efforts to garb themselves in Christian platitudes to out-and-out paganism simply supplanting Christianity.

People can selectively quote Hitler and use his appeasement speeches to church groups, after there was resentment and even protest at state secularization efforts, and try and say that is proof he is Christian. His private thoughts, as well as the writings and conversations of his chief party ideologues tell a much different story. 

_Hitler's Secret Conversations 1941-1944_ (New York, NY: Farrar, Straus and Young, 1953)

On the Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:


> National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things.
> pp. 6-7



10th October, 1941, midday:


> Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (pp. 43)



14th October, 1941, midday:


> The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (pp. 49-52)



19th October, 1941, night:


> The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.



21st October, 1941, midday:


> Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (pp. 63-65)


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## Puritanhead (Aug 10, 2006)

For those who want to find a token quote to affirm Hitler was a Christian, I submit that it was nothing more than propaganda. After all Hitler said, *"If you tell a big enough lie and tell it frequently enough, it will be believed."*

People also need to take the historical context of some of the supposedly pro-Christian, pro-church comments by Nazi propagandists. They were conspiciously timed in the aftermath of an outbreak of state-sponsored violence against the church, or church officials, or a repression against religious freedom. Much like politicians today, they denied that these things were happening right as they were happening. The SS/SA propaganda, and the activities tell a much different story. Hitler Youth meetings, for example, were deliberately timed to coincide with religious gatherings in order to pull the youth out of the churches.


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