# The Epic of Gilgamesh



## RamistThomist (Jan 15, 2019)

The Epic of Gilgamesh. Trans. N. K. Sandars. New York: Penguin Books, 1972.

The story is fairly straightforward. What is more interesting is exploring how many parallels to Noah, Hercules, and Nimrod they are. In that exploration we will see new light shed on the nature of Nephilim, giants, and the common interface between Hebrew, Greek, and Assyro-Babylonian cultures.

Gilgamesh is a kind of apkallu. The apkallu were the guardians of esoteric knowledge, seven in number. They are similar to the Watchers in the Aramaic and Enochian traditions. But Gilgamesh is only ⅔ apkallu. This makes him more like a Nephilim than a Watcher.

That raises another question: is Gilgamesh an analogue to Hercules or Nimrod? It’s hard to prove (or disprove!) that, but it is not an impossible supposition. 

Did Moses copy the Gilgamesh epic? Even critical scholars today are backing off that. For one, it’s very difficult, especially regarding ancient material, to pinpoint a 1:1 plagiarism. Nonetheless, we shouldn’t ignore the similarities and their polemical value. Brian Godawa does a great job summarizing Gordon Wenham’s research:

1. Divine decision to destroy

2. Warning to flood hero

3. Command to build ark

4. Hero’s obedience

5. Command to enter

6. Entry

7. Closing door

8. Description of flood

9. Destruction of life

10. End of rain, etc.

11. Ark grounding on mountain

12. Hero opens window

13. Birds’ reconnaissance

14. Exit

15. Sacrifice

16. Divine smelling of sacrifice

17. Blessing on flood hero

Notes from the text:

It is interesting there are vampiric elements in this culture, as Enkidu relates his dream to Gilgamesh: “His was a vampire-face” (92).

Gordon J. Wenham, “The Coherence of the Flood Narrative,” Vetus Testamentum 28, no. 3 (1978)

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## Pergamum (Jan 15, 2019)

This new english version is a delight to listen to: https://www.audible.com/pd/Gilgames...a7-13cef5d729fe&pf_rd_r=SD1M3KQSJ5E79ZG0NJ0X&

My son and I listened to it.

We've already decided that the next dog we get we are going to name Humbaba.

Do you think Gilgamesh was a real person? And that he might have met Noah in his old age?

In the Sumerian king list, Gilgamesh is listed as the fifth king ruling after the flood.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 15, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Do you think Gilgamesh was a real person?



I am about 60% sure Gilgamesh was Nimrod. The evidence both for and against is rather complex. But yeah, he lived.


Pergamum said:


> And that he might have met Noah in his old age?



Maybe. Sumerian chronologies weren't always realistic, and that also assumes that the Genesis chronologies didn't have gaps. It's possible.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 15, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> This new english version is a delight to listen to: https://www.audible.com/pd/Gilgames...a7-13cef5d729fe&pf_rd_r=SD1M3KQSJ5E79ZG0NJ0X&
> 
> My son and I listened to it.
> 
> ...



This is a great book that gives a good perspective on these earlier myths
https://tentsofshem.wordpress.com/2018/02/26/review-the-great-inception-satans-psyops/

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## RamistThomist (Jan 15, 2019)

Annus, Amar. 1999. “Are there Greek Rephaim? On the Etymology of Greek Meropes and Titanes.” _Ugarit-Forschungen_ 31:13-30.

–. 2010. “On the Origin of Watchers: A comparative study of the antediluvian wisdom in Mesopotamian and Jewish Traditions.” _Journal for the Study of Pseudipigrapha_ 19 (4): 277-320.

Toon, K. van der. “Nimrod Before and After the bible.” _Harvard Theological Review_ 83: 1-29.

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## Pergamum (Jan 15, 2019)

Any downloadable pdfs of these documents?


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## RamistThomist (Jan 15, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Any downloadable pdfs of these documents?



Remember that pdf folder on google drives I gave you access to? Some are in there

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## a mere housewife (Jan 15, 2019)

One of my favorite books is a Gilgamesh verse narrative by Herbert Mason. I haven't reread it in a few years but I remember that it spoke to me especially about this hope of overcoming death, for which the hero was inadequate -- the isolation even of God when fellowship is fleeting through death -- and how Gilgamesh turns his focus on building (what will ultimately also be subject to decay -- but like Ecclesiastes: work is a gift to keep us occupied so we aren't overcome with the sense of our mortality). Do you think this is something Mason conveyed from the original or brought from his own experience? I know he wrote his version working through an experience of loss.

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## Pergamum (Jan 16, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> This is a great book that gives a good perspective on these earlier myths
> https://tentsofshem.wordpress.com/2018/02/26/review-the-great-inception-satans-psyops/


I just read that book. I liked it.

My guilty pleasure is buying bible prophecy and conspiracy books.

Maybe we ARE all going to be Micro-chipped for the New world Order and demons will return posing at ETs and (the Nephilim, just as in the days of Noah) will come at the end of the world....

...I remain speculative about eschatology, but watching the news does sometimes lead me to think about Hal Lindsey-esque scenarios.


...p.s. chem-trails are real, by the way! The gov't is seeding our sky with metals and chemicals.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 16, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> My guilty pleasure is buying bible prophecy and conspiracy books.



Derek is a good guy. While he has some seemingly goofy tangents, he is remarkably up-to-date on recent biblical scholarship. He is also willing to listen to the other side and admit when he was wrong.

I don't think old-school Nephilim are coming back. I do think we will see satanically-charged transhumanism and transgenics. Nephilim were giants and useful in battle. In today's warfare size isn't as important. Other augmentations are.


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## Pergamum (Jan 16, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> This is a great book that gives a good perspective on these earlier myths
> https://tentsofshem.wordpress.com/2018/02/26/review-the-great-inception-satans-psyops/


Where does this author say Babel was built?


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## RamistThomist (Jan 16, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> Where does this author say Babel was built?



Easier to say where it wasn't built. It wasn't built in babylon, since Babylon didn't yet exist. Probably somewhere on the plain of Shinar.


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## RobertPGH1981 (Jan 17, 2019)

When speaking with Atheists they sometimes use the Gilgamesh Epic as proof that Moses plagiarized the Noah account. I assumed that it was a story passed down that was distorted overtime. On the answers in Genesis site, they have found other cultures across the world who speak of global floods and find amazing parallels. 

How do you address the argument that Moses plagiarized the Gilgamesh epic. Have you heard of other proofs beyond what I mentioned?


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## Pergamum (Jan 17, 2019)

I believe the ancient tales buttress and strengthen, rather than weaken, the Bible. If there are 400-plus Great Flood tales all over the world...then it probably happened. And furthermore, we'd expect a variance in these tales if they were told by pagans and not preserved by the Holy Spirit. 

Plus, Satan's tool is not downright lying, but counterfeiting the truth. Satan loves to use 90% of the truth and then just twist it a little bit.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 17, 2019)

Pergamum said:


> I believe the ancient tales buttress and strengthen, rather than weaken, the Bible. If there are 400-plus Great Flood tales all over the world...then it probably happened. And furthermore, we'd expect a variance in these tales if they were told by pagans and not preserved by the Holy Spirit.
> 
> Plus, Satan's tool is not downright lying, but counterfeiting the truth. Satan loves to use 90% of the truth and then just twist it a little bit.



Exactly. When you have an overwhelming corroboration of witnesses spanning thousands of years and the entire globe, then the event probably happened.

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## Pergamum (Jan 17, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Exactly. When you have an overwhelming corroboration of witnesses spanning thousands of years and the entire globe, then the event probably happened.



And some of these universal tales are: (1) a good creation put under a curse, (2) giants/gods waging war and oppressing mankind and breeding with women, (3) The interference of various lesser God in the early affairs of man, (4) an abundance of wickedness until there was a Flood, (5) And often a spreading out of mankind purposefully or a scattering/division.


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