# Reformed African American audio



## RamistThomist (Jul 26, 2017)

What are some Reformed African American churches, especially if they have audio available?


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## Tyrese (Jul 26, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> What are some Reformed African American churches, especially if they have audio available?



Grace Reformed Baptist Church of Newark NJ.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_detail.asp?sourceid=grbc-newark

http://grbc.m.webs.com/site/mobile?...05ab61b238caf981ef7c01504c1&fb_sig_network=fw

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## Tyrese (Jul 26, 2017)

Ken Harris is an excellent preacher. He preaches at various Reformed Baptist Churches throughout the year. 

http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?speakeronly=true&currsection=sermonsspeaker&keyword=Ken_Harris


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## Tyrese (Jul 26, 2017)

Unfortunately there's not to many black churches that promote confessional Reformed Theology. If you search the net you'll find groups that say they're Reformed, but unfortunately their primary mission is social justice. These individuals tend to be connected with the PCA and New Calvinism. Very disappointing.

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## Jake (Jul 26, 2017)

Here's a couple of Reformed (or at least Reformed-ish) Baptist churches near places I've lived:

http://www.bereanbible.org/ in Atlanta
http://resurrectedbaptistchurch.org/ in Chattanooga
http://epointchurch.org/ - just outside Atlanta -- this one I think is more New Calvinist, but I heard a sermon from the pastor at Covenant College which I thought was very good.

Selma RPCNA is a historically black church with an interesting history in Selma, AL. Currently without a pastor.

A lot of the New City churches are in Reformed denominations and have black pastors. I don't know how Reformed any given one is. Here is one in the OPC: http://www.newcitygr.org/


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## Stope (Jul 26, 2017)

Tyrese said:


> New Calvinism


-What do you mean by this term?


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## Tyrese (Jul 26, 2017)

Stope said:


> -What do you mean by this term?



Simple. There's a lot of African American pastors who are in some way or another associated with Christian Rap and Acts 29 Network.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 26, 2017)

Stope said:


> -What do you mean by this term?



He doesn't mean Kuyper or Neo-Calvinism. New Calvinism, especially in the Driscoll manifestation, is best known as "brother Calvinism."

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## Stope (Jul 26, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> best known as "brother Calvinism."


Bahhh genius!


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## Tyrese (Jul 26, 2017)

A few years back I called a well know Reformed and Presbyterian Seminary (which I won't mention the name) to get information about the application process. I'm guessing since they already had a little bit of information about my race they thought it was a good idea to have a popular Christian rapper give me a call to reel me in. Coincidence maybe? Could have been. But I still think it was done with a purpose.

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## ZackF (Jul 26, 2017)

I'm not sure where he is now but there is Ken Jones of WHI fame.


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## Ben Zartman (Jul 26, 2017)

Jacob,
It seems it would be uncommon to have Reformed African-American churches, since Reformed folks by and large congregate together based on conviction rather than race. Our church, in North Providence, RI, has a really lovely mix of races--several black families, plenty of Hispanics, not a few mixed families (one of our pastor's family being one)--my all-white family is more the exception than the norm. Several of our visiting preachers have been African-American: we had Voddie Baucham to a conference (not sure if he's technically reformed), Ken Harris preaches occasionally, and Tawfiq Cotman-el preached an excellent sermon recently. I believe the church (Grace Community Baptist) has it on Sermonaudio.

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## Tyrese (Jul 26, 2017)

Ben Zartman said:


> Jacob,
> It seems it would be uncommon to have Reformed African-American churches, since Reformed folks by and large congregate together based on conviction rather than race. Our church, in North Providence, RI, has a really lovely mix of races--several black families, plenty of Hispanics, not a few mixed families (one of our pastor's family being one)--my all-white family is more the exception than the norm. Several of our visiting preachers have been African-American: we had Voddie Baucham to a conference (not sure if he's technically reformed), Ken Harris preaches occasionally, and Tawfiq Cotman-el preached an excellent sermon recently. I believe the church (Grace Community Baptist) has it on Sermonaudio.



Hi Ben, I attached Ken Harris's sermons to this thread earlier today. He's a good brother and a very gifted preacher.


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## Edward (Jul 26, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> What are some Reformed African American churches



You need to define your terms. What is an African American church? Black pastor? Majority (if so, super or simple) black membership? Both? 

Are you using the Louisiana Rules? 

And along the same lines, what do you mean by "Reformed"? BR? TR? Something else?


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## Pergamum (Jul 26, 2017)

The Sovereign Grace Chapel of Winston-Salem, NC with elder Warren Burrell. My wife and I attended there for a year and it was a great blessing. Straight hard-hitting calvinistic preaching. I highly recommend them.


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## Stope (Jul 27, 2017)

https://www.facebook.com/RAANetwork
*Reformed African American Network *


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## Tyrese (Jul 27, 2017)

Stope said:


> https://www.facebook.com/RAANetwork
> *Reformed African American Network *





Stope said:


> https://www.facebook.com/RAANetwork
> *Reformed African American Network *



RAAN network is helpful, but I think they spend to much time focusing on social justice and civil rights. Those things are important, but I think they should be addressed in an appropriate context. Perhaps if Reformed blacks spent more time promoting Reformed theology rather than civil rights, we'd see more Reformed black Churches. And I say that as a black person.

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## Stope (Jul 27, 2017)

Tyrese - Im a white guy from a white town and dont really know any black people (many mexicans though). I admit that when I saw this OP I was pleased cause I realized that the extent of my engagement with Black people is listening to Propaganda (man hes sooooo good!). That said, what can you, as a black man, and Reformed at that, tell me about how you view us Reformed white guys? Strengths? weakness? Also, who do you read?


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## Tyrese (Jul 27, 2017)

Stope said:


> Tyrese - Im a white guy from a white town and dont really know any black people (many mexicans though). I admit that when I saw this OP I was pleased cause I realized that the extent of my engagement with Black people is listening to Propaganda (man hes sooooo good!). That said, what can you, as a black man, and Reformed at that, tell me about how you view us Reformed white guys? Strengths? weakness? Also, who do you read?



This is a really good question. I'll get right back to you as soon as I can.


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## Tyrese (Jul 28, 2017)

Stope said:


> Tyrese - Im a white guy from a white town and dont really know any black people (many mexicans though). I admit that when I saw this OP I was pleased cause I realized that the extent of my engagement with Black people is listening to Propaganda (man hes sooooo good!). That said, what can you, as a black man, and Reformed at that, tell me about how you view us Reformed white guys? Strengths? weakness? Also, who do you read?


Sorry for the delay. Had a busy day yesterday.

I think before tackling your specific questions we have to address the issue of Sunday being the most segregated day out of the week. I think there's more than one answer to this issue but I suspect the root cause of this problem are the sins of our fathers in past generations.

A couple weeks ago I spent some time reading the life works and sermons of B. M Palmer and R. L Dabneys discussions. These two were (and in my opinion continue to be) important Southern Presbyterian voices who defended the 'southern' way of life before the civil war. Southern Presbyterianism was without a doubt the more conservative wing of the Presbyterian Church. I don't know a whole lot about Southern Baptist except the fact that they split from the North for many of the same reasons the Southern Presbyterians did. While there's a good deal to praise these men for, we have to remember that these men were sinners and guilty of serious crimes against their fellow brethren in Christ.

A handful of Southern theologians had the audacity to use the Bible to support racism. So if we fast forward to today we should not be surprised that 'woke' blacks associate Reformed Theology (regardless of where it's promoted-Presbyterians, Baptist, etc.) with racism and bondage. I had a guy tell me several years ago that Reformed Theology is 'more of a white thing.' Now before we dismiss that idea we have to admit there's a bit of truth in that way of thinking.

So how do I view white people today? I view whites today as a people who are paying for the sins of their fathers, just like our children will pay for the many sins of our generation. Whenever I see hate groups like Black Lives Matter tearing apart there own communities, killing white police officers, etc., I'm grieved by it just like any other person. It's wickedness and it's anarchy. However we can't divorce these sort of things from our countries past.

So how do we move forward as brethren and put the countries past sins behind us? I don't have all the answers to that question, but here's what I do know:

1. The militant behavior of the so called social justice movement (in the Church and outside of it) are barking up the wrong tree. Last time I checked repaying evil for evil is a sin.

2. The gospel is the answer to every evil that has ever taken place in the world. The social gospel leads to liberalism which leads to apostasy. Right now the PCA is struggling with doctrinal decline. Do they really need to add the social gospel on top of all that they're already dealing with?

3. Patience. 'The harvest is plentiful but laborerers are few.' Like I said at the outset of this thread, there's simply not enough Reformed blacks who are not following Christian fads in 'Reformed' circles. Fads include but are not limited to: rap music, the city, slang in the pulpit, etc. Please pray. Pray that God raises up men who are about the Word of God and the power of the gospel. Nothing more and nothing less. If people aren't interested in the gospel it's because they're not saved, not because you're corney. This is a universal concern, not just a black one.

4. Recognize that not all blacks are exactly the same. Some are doing VERY well financially, and some are not. Treat blacks as you would another white person. We're all Americans. Chances are the majority of black people like the same things you like. Don't fell that in order to reach the black community you have to feel 'cool' or 'wit it.' Just be yourself. Also, don't think you have to move to the city. Black people also live in suburban communities just like you do. I suspect you already know this. I often wonder if whites are afraid of blacks who are doing well and not looking for a handout or a ride to church.

5. Finally, be sympathic. Now I don't mean 'white guilt.' I simply mean be understanding. How would you feel if your ancestors were brought here on the bottom of slaves ships all the way across the Atlantic Ocean? Once you're able to establish some level of understanding, reprove blacks where they need to be reproved. I know a lot of blacks who are unforgiving and refuse to love their alleged enemies. Blacks aren't slaves anymore. We have the same opportunities as everyone else does. Don't be afraid to remind them of this.

So what do I read? Probabaly the same books that everyone else here on the PB reads. The Bible, the great confessions of the Church, the puritans, and yes even theologians who shamefully behaved themselves before and during the civil war. I find their arguments that support slavery to be outrageous, but I refuse to view my self as holier than thou. I wouldn't want anyone to condemn me for the terrible things that I've done in the flesh. We're all sinners in need of the same savior. Hope this helps

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## Its_Jahmezz (Jul 28, 2017)

Tyrese said:


> Unfortunately there's not to many black churches that promote confessional Reformed Theology. If you search the net you'll find groups that say they're Reformed, but unfortunately their primary mission is social justice. These individuals tend to be connected with the PCA and New Calvinism. Very disappointing.




Brother, I know you meant well, but this paints a very broad brush about those whom are black and hold to a Reformed Confession (maybe it was the way I took it also).

There is indeed a lot of talk about Social Justice by those who say they are Black and Reformed, but to paint that broad of a stroke that that is ALL they talk about, you'd have to listen to all of their sermons to say "All they talk about is Social Justice". I know you were speaking about online groups but the way it's worded implied that the Primary Mission of the online Reformed Group is the Same as their local body.

In my experience, that is what a good amount (not all) use their Social Media Platform for, but their sermons and their local churches are a completely different story.

Let's take an "extreme" example of Thabiti Anyabwile‏ who is many would consider to be VERY involved in Social Justice on his Social Media Platform. However, go to his website for the church Anacostia River Church and just skim through the sermons. It's not a whole bunch of Social Justice fluff. The Church is also Reformed (LBC).

Leon Brown, a PCA Pastor in Richmond, VA is a SOLID Black Reformed Preacher. He helped me sort through many a theological stance. Here is a Sermon where he talks about Social Issues, but it's overwhelmingly In my humble opinion 
Solidly Reformed.






I agree that there should be more Reformed Pastors and their should be more talk of Reformed Theology in the Platforms they use, but let's not leave the impression that this is almost non existent. Also we shouldn't give the impression there is only a handful of Pastors that are Black and Reformed. Many of them probably don't even have a platform or their sermons posted. 

The broad stroke is the same one use when Conservative (predominately) White Churches start talking about Politics or play Patriotic Music on Memorial Day Weekend etc. We shouldn't all Predominately White Churches not being Reformed and they are really just a bunch of Americans that only care about patriotism.

I hope you hear my heart and don't think I am trying to cause beef.

Grace & Peace Brother!


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## Tyrese (Jul 28, 2017)

Its_Jahmezz said:


> Brother, I know you meant well, but this paints a very broad brush about those whom are black and hold to a Reformed Confession (maybe it was the way I took it also).
> 
> There is indeed a lot of talk about Social Justice by those who say they are Black and Reformed, but to paint that broad of a stroke that that is ALL they talk about, you'd have to listen to all of their sermons to say "All they talk about is Social Justice". I know you were speaking about online groups but the way it's worded implied that the Primary Mission of the online Reformed Group is the Same as their local body.
> 
> ...





Its_Jahmezz said:


> Brother, I know you meant well, but this paints a very broad brush about those whom are black and hold to a Reformed Confession (maybe it was the way I took it also).
> 
> There is indeed a lot of talk about Social Justice by those who say they are Black and Reformed, but to paint that broad of a stroke that that is ALL they talk about, you'd have to listen to all of their sermons to say "All they talk about is Social Justice". I know you were speaking about online groups but the way it's worded implied that the Primary Mission of the online Reformed Group is the Same as their local body.
> 
> ...



Hi Jahmezz, no beefs here. In fact thank you for interacting with what I've written. The desire is for healthy Christian discussion on a very sensitive issue.

You're exactly right that one cannot paint a broad stroke and pretend they have it all figured out. I also don't mean to imply that every black pastor that's Reformed is apart of this. However, on this particular topic, there's an overwhelming number of black (Reformed) theologians who spend a good deal of time addressing social issues. I'm not even sure if this point is debatable.

I'll definitely give the sermon you shared a listen but whether or not it's solid still proves that this is a primary concern. I might even agree with him. But here's my concern: there's hundreds of black Churches in our communities and rarely do I hear them talk about social justice. I was raised in a very fruitful black church and the pastor flat out told me 'if it's not about Jesus Christ than I'm not about it.' Now There's social justice guys out there, but no where near as popular as those who identify with Reformed theology. Some of us need to speak up and admit that some of this is getting out of hand. Now we're seeing guys alingning themselves with Black Lives Matter- a godless and anti Christian movement. Would you agree?

My desire is not for more white people to understand racism. This is not to say that racism doesn't matter. We find this sort of thing in the Bible and God is clearly displeased with it. However the Word of God doesn't give us a specific blue print on how to help white people and black people get along. The solution is Jesus Christ and the 'one another's' in the Bible. If we're not promoting sound biblical theology that helps Churches get on the right track (black or white), than like I said, we're barking up the wrong tree.

Me and my wife (who's also black) have spent so much time talking about the need for Reformation in black churches and all we ever hear about is racism in white churches, totally ignoring the black churches in the communities where we live. It gets frustrating after a while.

Tyrese

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## Stope (Jul 28, 2017)

Tyrese said:


> Sorry for the delay. Had a busy day yesterday.
> 
> I think before tackling your specific questions we have to address the issue of Sunday being the most segregated day out of the week. I think there's more than one answer to this issue but I suspect the root cause of this problem are the sins of our fathers in past generations.
> 
> ...


(Thank you so very much for this response. I have a few follow up items that I will put here when I have the time. Again, thank you)

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## Its_Jahmezz (Jul 28, 2017)

Thanks brother for responding! Glad you took what I wrote with humble heart. Glad we can have a edifying discussing.

I pretty much agree with you on all aspects, but I’ll try to respond to makes sense of a few things.



Tyrese said:


> However, on this particular topic, there's an overwhelming number of black (Reformed) theologians who spend a good deal of time addressing social issues. I'm not even sure if this point is debatable.



I totally agree. I do want to re-assert that I believe most of what we are seeing is actually a result of Social Media and not what might be taking place behind the pulpits. I cannot speak across the board and I do think there are probably a good number that are using the pulpit to promote a majority of social issues vs. preaching the gospel. However, I would venture to say that a good number of the Reformed Black Theologians that address Social Media are addressing it on Social Media and that is not their primary Sermon subjects.

Whether or not that is an issue is a good discussion for another post, as the OP was asking about Preachers so I would believe the emphasis would be on their Preaching vs. their Social Media Platforms or activism. Meaning someone’s activism for Social Justice doesn’t diminish from their Powerful Gospel Preaching. In the same way any many preachers advocates for Politics during that time of the year every four years.




Tyrese said:


> But here's my concern: there's hundreds of black Churches in our communities and rarely do I hear them talk about social justice. I was raised in a very fruitful black church and the pastor flat out told me 'if it's not about Jesus Christ than I'm not about it.'



You kinda lost me here. It sounded like you were backtracking what you were saying. Are you lamenting the overuse of Social Justice Talk in Reformed Circles but the lack of it in the common black church? I wasn’t sure if this was a comparison or contrast a lament or an observation.



Tyrese said:


> Some of us need to speak up and admit that some of this is getting out of hand. Now we're seeing guys alingning themselves with Black Lives Matter- a godless and anti Christian movement. Would you agree?



I would agree that the foundation of the BLM movement is godless and anti-Christian, but I wouldn’t go as far to throw the baby out with the bath water.

My lament here is that in the same way that Conservative Communities typically “appear” to give Police and Military a “saint-status” it would appear that the Reformed Black community “appear” to give the oppressed and those who stand for the oppressed that same “saint status”. Notice I say appear, so if that is what either are doing then both are wrong.




Tyrese said:


> However the Word of God doesn't give us a specific blue print on how to help white people and black people get along. The solution is Jesus Christ and the 'one another's' in the Bible. If we're not promoting sound biblical theology that helps Churches get on the right track (black or white), than like I said, we're barking up the wrong tree.
> 
> Me and my wife (who's also black) have spent so much time talking about the need for Reformation in black churches and all we ever hear about is racism in white churches, totally ignoring the black churches in the communities where we live. It gets frustrating after a while.



AMEN!!!! The Gospel is the only answer to the issues we have in the world! Fixing systemic issues (which don’t appear to ever be solved until Christ’s return) won’t fix us. We need to be conformed by the Word of God into the image of His Son.

I do understand the frustration. In my opinion, there needs to be a both/and. The common phrase my Pastor uses is the Luther Horse analogy, we tend to fall on one side or the other. BTW my pastor is a white PCA Pastor, I and my wife are also Black going to a predominately white church.

However, I would say two things. While I do believe that Reformed Theology is the best expression of the faith and I do hold to the Westminster Standards and I would consider myself a solid Calvinist, I’m not convinced that EVERY single Black Church (or any church) that is not reformed is flawed and doomed to poor gospel application (I don’t think you were saying that). There have been many examples of God using Solid Men and Women of God (of all races) in History who have not been reformed.

Additionally, I believe there are many churches (especially black churches that are Reformed in Application, but not in Confession (meaning they would believe what we believe, but they have never heard of a LBC or WC)

https://www.raanetwork.org/reformed-theology-indigenous-african-american-christianity/

I do think that there is a lot of mess within many black churches and other churches, but I praise God that there are many that are indeed preaching the Bible and the Gospel that we have no idea even exist.

I guess my point overall is, I think the way I read what you wrote as something pessimistic. I do think there is room for growth and a DEMAND for “Semper Reformanda”. However, I do praise God for Solid Gospel Truth that I believe is being proclaimed in pulpits across the world. I lament what I believe is the result of Systematic Oppression that led many black churches into liberation theology (which gave us the Social Gospel and the Prosperity Gospel). I lament them and I pray that by preaching the Gospel God will give fruit and reformation and revival will happen.

I used to be very pessimistic and cynical about the state of the black church, however, as my heart began to break for them and I began reaching out to them I saw that there are many (not all) who actually do believe what we believe, but they just never heard of a Confession.

Grace and Peace Brotha,

Jahmezz

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## Tyrese (Jul 28, 2017)

Its_Jahmezz said:


> Thanks brother for responding! Glad you took what I wrote with humble heart. Glad we can have a edifying discussing.
> 
> I pretty much agree with you on all aspects, but I’ll try to respond to makes sense of a few things.
> 
> ...



Let's talk. PM me your phone number and let's arrange a day to talk on the phone. I think this is a good conversation and I think there's much we can learn from one another.


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## Its_Jahmezz (Jul 28, 2017)

Tyrese said:


> Let's talk. PM me your phone number and let's arrange a day to talk on the phone. I think this is a good conversation and I think there's much we can learn from one another.



Will do!


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## SolamVeritatem (Jul 28, 2017)

Tyrese,


I was just about to respond to your post, but then I realized that Jahmezz had already covered my exact points in almost the precise words I would have used, only better. I think it was excellently done. 


I'll tell you that although you make some solid points, I think you miss a great deal also in some of the aspects you addressed. I think it's extremely important to make sure we refrain from sweeping generalizations on both sides of the fence regarding this issue. Additionally, we should not think it inconceivable that a balanced, biblical approach can be taken in these areas. For instance, I'm African American, member of the PCA, adhere to the Westminster Standards, read all the dead theologians that those of us on the PB have come to know and love, AND (horror of all horrors to some on this board) yes I believe fully in a real, biblical, healthy and holistic view and call to social justice. 


Not sure if you remember but I reached out to you via PM over two years ago about us meeting in person and getting to know one another better. I noticed in your profile that you still live in the same area, and we are relatively close to one another geographically. The offer still stands. I know that you are probably married with smaller kids than I have, so I will come to you if need be. Plus, I'm sure my schedule is much more flexible. We can meet over coffee, lunch, dinner, or beer (if you are so inclined), whenever and wherever is most convenient for you, all on my dime. This is just how important I think it is for brothers to dwell together in unity, and for us to have some face-to-face interaction that gives us the best way to interpret one another and understand thoughts and expressions outside of the limitations of social computer technology. I know that we may not agree on everything concerning this issue, but perhaps we can forge a relationship that speaks well of the gospel of Jesus Christ to the world and strengthens the both of us. If that's not feasible, I'd love to three way in on a phone conversation between you and Jahmezz...


As I've mentioned before on a similar thread, I have no intention of parsing out certain subjects on a public PB thread for one major reason (2 reasons in this particular case):



In the exact same words I used on another thread, the last thing I would want to do is offend my brothers (and sisters), give any inclination that my take on certain subjects poses the threat of liberalism/Marxism or leftist agenda motivations, nor do I EVER want to impugn the intentions of my fellow covenant heirs of the promise (I have here in mind both WLC 143-145 and the 3rd and 5th membership vows in BCO 57-5). 
I don't want to hijack the thread, as I think our discussion would stray far outside the bounds of the intent and query in the OP.

Would love to hear from you brother...


In Him,


Craig

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## Its_Jahmezz (Jul 28, 2017)

ReformedReidian said:


> What are some Reformed African American churches, especially if they have audio available?



To actually answer the OP here is a short list 

Tony Carter | East Point Church (I know they say they are Reformed, but I’m not sure about which Confession they hold to): http://epointchurch.org/resources-media/audio

Leon Brown | Crown and Joy Presbyterian Church (Westminster Standards): http://crownandjoy.com/sermon-archive/

Conrad Mwebe (Not African American, but Zambian. Known as the African Spurgeon) | Kabwata Baptist Church (LBC) http://www.kabwatabaptistchurch.com/sermon/

Louis Love | New Life Fellowship Church (New Hampshire Confession): http://www.newlifevh.org/resources/sermons/

Alex Shipman | The Village Church PCA (Westminster Standards): https://mytuner-radio.com/podcasts/the-village-church-alex-shipman-498816398

Finally, NO list of Reformed African American Preachers is complete w/o the late Elder DJ Ward | Main Street Baptist Church | : 



 




Hope this helps and Encourages!

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## Tyrese (Jul 28, 2017)

SolamVeritatem said:


> Tyrese,
> 
> 
> I was just about to respond to your post, but then I realized that Jahmezz had already covered my exact points in almost the precise words I would have used, only better. I think it was excellently done.
> ...



Hi Craig,

yes I remember we talked before here but I don't remember the topic. I suspect it was something along the lines of this discussion. I apologize for forgetting. I'm not seeing the old messages that were sent before the update so please resend your contact information. Sorry about that brother.

I simply want to see Reformed blacks move on from social issues. We shouldn't care all that much about what this race or that thinks of us. It's 2017 and I think we have the resources and tools to bring about Reformation in black Churches. Those who have a public platform should be using it for this purpose. Like I said it's 2017. We gotta get beyond the race talks and lectures.

We can't preach on Sunday, and then spend the rest of the week talking about racism. Now that may sound like another generalization, but that's how people perceive what's going on. 

Tyrese

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## SolamVeritatem (Jul 28, 2017)

Tyrese,

Sent you and Jahmezz a PM with my contact info before I even read this post.

Looking forward to hearing from you. 

In Him,

Craig

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## Semper Fidelis (Jul 28, 2017)

Gents,

I appreciate the conversation and, as a PCA elder, I know many of the men you are talking about and consider them to be solid men.
I'm open to dialog but I think Tyrese's sweeping generalizations are sometimes the things that are done by many who are talking about the "White Church" who are focused on racial reconciliation. There is some very extreme language that emerges and a sort of assumption that there is a monolithic way to look at issues and people.
I've seen a strange tendency among younger TE's now to doubt their ability to communicate with others unless they know the history of people. There's become a sort of way to do exegesis now that requires "voices" from differing racial or gender perspectives. It's becoming strangely mainstream. It's not quite the "let's deconstruct the European patriarchy because every voice is valid" but it comes close to that idea at times.
One thing that has been gnawing at me lately is sort of the breadth ofthe world itself. I sometimes wonder if some people are so focused on a provincial context that "all {fill in the color} people are like" that they seem totally unaware of how truly diverse the world really is. Trying to even pin down all Chinese people neglects the profound cultural and language diversity among people that otherwise might look the same. Go to Belgium and you'll see two different languages and cultures that can't agree on key things in government.
I was on my way to dinner at GA and others in the car were saying "white people are like..." and I said: "Who, the French, the Russians, the British, a Hillbilly, a New Yorker?"
Look at the country of Rwanda and the deep divisions over tribal affinities. You just can't peg a person based on his color.
It's not that I don't to acknowledge the plight of black people and others in the history of the US. I do! I recognize years of putting on masks and opportunities not afforded to others. I recognize that there was even theology that (in a twisted way) caused men to act toward others in ways they thought were helpful.
I don't know if I'm making any sense but I see Elders starting to get really caught up in the complexity of trying to figure out if their way of viewing the world is clouding their entire ability to understand the Word of God while other men are almost seen as saying: "...we see it clearly because we come from X-colored perspective."
Yet, given the incredible cultural, religious, regional, and tribal diversities that exist across the globe we are hopelessly lost if we think that the key to understanding how to reconcile men to one another is having a bead on what make "x-colored" people tick.
We just need to get to know people. We can't rely upon our own experiences as a grid for how we can bin folks but just be wiling to take men for who they are and learn something about them.
But with respect to culture, we all have to meet at the Cross. I believe the Scriptures are clear enough for Who God is and what duty God requires of men for it to correct whatver our culture or background is teaching us otherwise. I need not study every culture in order to get that right.
I hope that makes sense.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Tyrese (Jul 28, 2017)

Semper Fidelis said:


> Gents,
> 
> I appreciate the conversation and, as a PCA elder, I know many of the men you are talking about and consider them to be solid men.
> I'm open to dialog but I think Tyrese's sweeping generalizations are sometimes the things that are done by many who are talking about the "White Church" who are focused on racial reconciliation. There is some very extreme language that emerges and a sort of assumption that there is a monolithic way to look at issues and people.
> ...



Great post! I definitely try my best not to make generalizations, but unfortunately we all tend to interpret the actions of others (or lack therof) through our own lens. I grew up in a suburban community, I was raised by both Mom and Dad, Mom was for the most part a stay at home Mom, rap music and slang would get me grounded, and so on and so forth. Now I have my own family and we operate pretty much the same way I was raised. So when I hear slang in the pulpit and references to rap music, I get the idea that brothers think we're all from 'the streets.' I think generalizations are being made across the board. Like our brother said, we have to get to know one another.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tyrese (Jul 28, 2017)

A friend of mine who's also black will be preaching at his Church called Reformation Bible Church in Darlington MD. Reformation Bible is VERY Reformed and I can't wait to hear my friend preach. I believe he'll be preaching in the evening on August 26. It'll be broadcasted live on sermonaudio, but of course I'll be there.

Here's a link to Reformation Bible Church: http://www.reformationbiblechurch.org/


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## Semper Fidelis (Jul 28, 2017)

I didn't know whether to Like or Laugh at your last post because it was funny in a charming way. One of the finest officers who ever worked for me was a black man who I consider a good friend to this day. I take that back, he was the most impressive I ever served with. Period. Raised by two military parents. Charismatic. Smart. Compassionate. Like most military children he had a different upbringing but could also move in and around most people with ease.
I know better than to assume because I have a friend like Steve (or many others) that I know what it is to be a black man in America. I'm just privileged that I have him as a friend.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Stope (Aug 2, 2017)

SolamVeritatem said:


> We can meet over coffee, lunch, dinner, or beer (if you are so inclined), whenever and wherever is most convenient for you, all on my dime. This is just how important I think it is for brothers to dwell together in unity, and for us to have some face-to-face interaction


This is awesome


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