# Justifying faith



## AV1611 (Mar 2, 2007)

To what extent is justifying faith believeing that "Christ died for me"? Thoughts brethren?

Gill writes "As for instance: That faith by which a man is said to he justified, is not a mere assurance of the object, or a bare persuasion that there is a justifying righteousness in Christ; but *that there is a justifying righteousness in Christ for him*; and therefore he looks unto, leans, relies, and depends on, and pleads this righteousness for his justification: though this act of his may be attended with many doubts, fears, questionings, and unbelief. And what is short of this I cannot apprehend to be true faith in Christ, as the Lord our righteousness." (see)


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## Herald (Mar 2, 2007)

Richard,

Paul writes:

*2 Corinthians 13:5 5 Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognize this about yourselves, that Jesus Christ is in you-- unless indeed you fail the test? *

Paul drills down faith to the personal level. While we become part of the universal church, there is no doubt that we come to faith on a personal level. 

*Romans 8:29-30 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first-born among many brethren; 30 and whom He predestined, these He also called; and whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified. *

All these things Christ does for each member of the elect. While it is true of the whole, it is also true of the individual.


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## Blueridge Believer (Mar 2, 2007)

AV1611 said:


> To what extent is justifying faith believeing that "Christ died for me"? Thoughts brethren?
> 
> Gill writes "As for instance: That faith by which a man is said to he justified, is not a mere assurance of the object, or a bare persuasion that there is a justifying righteousness in Christ; but *that there is a justifying righteousness in Christ for him*; and therefore he looks unto, leans, relies, and depends on, and pleads this righteousness for his justification: though this act of his may be attended with many doubts, fears, questionings, and unbelief. And what is short of this I cannot apprehend to be true faith in Christ, as the Lord our righteousness." (see)



He describes me perfectly dear brother. Doubts, fears, questionings, and unbelief. It seems there is not a day that goes by that I do not wonder how God could save me. I wonder each day at the knowledge of my corruption and loathe myself. I wonder each day at the rebel I am before His law and then by His grace I realize that I am the same as every other sinner on this earth that has ever lived. If Christ does not justify me I am doomed for eternity. I have no way to stand before him but washed in His blood.
Sometimes I wonder if I have ever done anything good in His service. I live in a state of constant repentance for my backslidings, lack of love and mercy and hardness of heart.
I long for the day for deliverance from this flesh.


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## AV1611 (Mar 2, 2007)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Richard,
> 
> Paul writes:
> 
> ...



So are you saying that I can believe:
1. Christ died
2. Christ rose again
3. Christ was punished for the sin of his people

but unless I believe Christ died for me then I am not saved?

(Serious question brother)

The reason I ask is that in a reaction to the arminianism of the Gospel Hall I attended a while ago and the general character of their preaching (God loves you, Christ died for you and believe this and you ill be saved) I held, encouraged by others, that the gospel is not personal in that in order to be saved all I need to do is say Christ died for sin(s) and rose again (in a nutshell). So there is nothing _personal_ about it if you see what I mean.

So I was wondering if I had, we had, thrown out something that was essential to saving faith...I know that Christ died for me but is that justifying faith?


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## AV1611 (Mar 2, 2007)

Blueridge reformer said:


> He describes me perfectly dear brother. Doubts, fears, questionings, and unbelief. It seems there is not a day that goes by that I do not wonder how God could save me. I wonder each day at the knowledge of my corruption and loathe myself. I wonder each day at the rebel I am before His law and then by His grace I realize that I am the same as every other sinner on this earth that has ever lived. If Christ does not justify me I am doomed for eternity. I have no way to stand before him but washed in His blood.
> Sometimes I wonder if I have ever done anything good in His service. I live in a state of constant repentance for my backslidings, lack of love and mercy and hardness of heart.
> I long for the day for deliverance from this flesh.



 I know brother and I am sure we would all testify to them! (I was going to use the "amen" smilie but he is smiling and these "fears, questionings, and unbelief" are no smiling matter.


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## Dieter Schneider (Mar 2, 2007)

I love Luther's description:
"Faith is a living, daring confidence in God's grace, so sure and certain that
a person would stake his or her life on it a thousand times. This confidence
in God's grace and knowledge of it makes people glad and bold and happy
in dealing with God and with all his creatures; and this is the work of
the Holy Ghost in faith. Hence a person is ready and glad, without compulsion,
to do good to everyone, to serve everyone, to suffer everything,
in love and praise of God, who has shown him or her this grace."

We are no longer in sin but sin is still in us.


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## Dieter Schneider (Mar 2, 2007)

Surely it is faith in Christ alone for salvation not faith in faith. A weak faith is still a saving faith. There is more grace in Him than there is sin in us. His blood soaks up all my sin! 
Faith beholds Him as the One who died that I might live and God seals the promise by His Spirit on my heart. 
With Calvin I believe that assurance is of the essence of faith - it is wicked to doubt the promises of God, 'whosoever believeth in Him' ... 
Unbelief gives the lie to God. The offer of the Gospel is genuine – Christ is for everyone who wants Him. 
Unbelief, is it not the unforgiveable sin?


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## Arch2k (Mar 2, 2007)

There is a difference that must be kept in mind when searching out this question.

1) We are to recognize Christ as OUR lord and God. This is from our stand point, we attribute the qualities to Christ that he already possesses.

Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"​2) That being said, saving faith does not consist of peering into the secret will of God to determine if we are of the elect. This is to try to ascend into heaven so to speak. This is the secret will of God. Rather, he has given us the revealed will to live by (see point #1), and by putting our faith in the revealed will, we are saved.

Rom 10:6 But the righteousness of faith speaks in this way, "Do not say in your heart, 'Who will ascend into heaven?' " (that is, to bring Christ down from above)​Rom 10:7 or, " 'Who will descend into the abyss?' " (that is, to bring Christ up from the dead).​Rom 10:8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" (that is, the word of faith which we preach):​Rom 10:9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.​Also see 
The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XVIII
Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation

for more on the subject.


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## AV1611 (Mar 2, 2007)

Jeff_Bartel said:


> There is a difference that must be kept in mind when searching out this question.
> 
> 1) We are to recognize Christ as OUR lord and God. This is from our stand point, we attribute the qualities to Christ that he already possesses.
> 
> ...



Thanks...I was reading WCF on saving faith earlier. 

Any way will return to this tomorrow (I am shattered and so off to bed now)


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## Herald (Mar 2, 2007)

> So are you saying that I can believe:
> 1. Christ died
> 2. Christ rose again
> 3. Christ was punished for the sin of his people
> ...



Richard - not at t'all. Jesus did not die just for you. I was at a gospel rally at the Word of Life Bible Institute when the evangelist said, "If you were the only person on the planet, Jesus would have died for you." Hogwash! While your repentance and faith _*is personal*_, it is the object of your faith that saves: Jesus Christ of Nazareth. Paul writes:

*Romans 10:8-13 8 But what does it say? "The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart "-- that is, the word of faith which we are preaching, 9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you shall be saved; 10 for with the heart man believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "Whoever believes in Him will not be disappointed." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call upon Him; 13 for "Whoever will call upon the name of the LORD will be saved." *

It's not about personalizing Jesus, it is the effect upon the person who places their faith in Christ alone.


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