# When speaking to the heathen...



## Craig (Oct 10, 2004)

My church is going to begin a "bible club" in a trailer park community next Sunday. We've been preparing for it for the last couple of months. We'll basically be going through the "children's" catechism starting with creation.

Today we passed out flyers to each of the homes and I had a conversation with a man in particular...how do I keep the conversation on Christ? Each time I speak with an unregenerate they start talking like I'm a relationships advisor/therapist. Granted, you can be handed nice things to work with when this happens, but for the life of me couldn't do much more than listen. After he discussed moving back in with his ex fiancee I redirected him by saying being right in relationship with God was most important...then, silence...

Any thoughts to help me as I bumble my way through this?


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 10, 2004)

It's pretty tough Craig! I work with unregenerate teen agers and let me tell you I have the exact same problem! I have wonderful relationships with all the kids here at the home I work with, but the BEST and brightest ones have no intrest in talking about God. At least not directly.

It's frustrating.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 10, 2004)

Well in a way we are meant to help even our enemies so while I see your problem of not being able to talk to them about Christ it is not really a bad thing if you are able to help them in other ways. Hey you might just earn their trust and then they will be more comfortable most probably with talking about things they rather would not think about.


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## Contra_Mundum (Oct 22, 2004)

You can only try to put the focus on the man's real needs. "Joe's" misdirections and evasions are his sinful heart trying to avoid God's confrontation. He has decided that his problem is "my broken relationship." So, acording to "Joe" God must meet him on his terms, and fix the problem as "Joe" defines it. God wants to fix the _real,_ more fundamental problem, not the 'presenting' problem, which is symptomatic.

I see similar things myself, in rank unbelievers and often among the "saved" who are truly uncomfortable with dealing with sin. When we get onto spiritual things, boy, I can hardly get a word in edgewise! Man, they KNOW what they want to talk about, and you are supposed to be their sounding-board. Well, you just gotta refuse that role. You know what he really needs to hear. He doesn't need to talk; he needs to listen. Whatever gets through his "filters" will either soften his heart, or condemn him at the last. When the Holy Spirit gets "Joe's" attention, grabs the chin, so to speak, and pulls his face towards God, he will see and hear really for the first time. He will listen to the Word of God then, if he is elect.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 22, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> You can only try to put the focus on the man's real needs. "Joe's" misdirections and evasions are his sinful heart trying to avoid God's confrontation. He has decided that his problem is "my broken relationship." So, acording to "Joe" God must meet him on his terms, and fix the problem as "Joe" defines it. God wants to fix the _real,_ more fundamental problem, not the 'presenting' problem, which is symptomatic.
> 
> I see similar things myself, in rank unbelievers and often among the "saved" who are truly uncomfortable with dealing with sin. When we get onto spiritual things, boy, I can hardly get a word in edgewise! Man, they KNOW what they want to talk about, and you are supposed to be their sounding-board. Well, you just gotta refuse that role. You know what he really needs to hear. He doesn't need to talk; he needs to listen. Whatever gets through his "filters" will either soften his heart, or condemn him at the last. When the Holy Spirit gets "Joe's" attention, grabs the chin, so to speak, and pulls his face towards God, he will see and hear really for the first time. He will listen to the Word of God then, if he is elect.



Bruce,

Thank you for these wise words. I personally find them convicting, enlightening and inspiring. There is much here to meditate upon.


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## alwaysreforming (Oct 22, 2004)

I agree with Bruce's assessment of the situation. The problem with people such as you described above is that they have no realization of their spiritual need. Why should they be interested in "God talk," its irrelevent?

Their only problem is their boyfriend/girlfriend, rent, food, gas, etc. God shouldn't be posing a problem to them for another 50 years or so.

I think this is where preaching the Law first can have some real benefit. Too often we go in with the Gospel first; it falls on deaf ears because the Law has not yet done its work. The problem with that is that the Gospel is not the solution to their relationship troubles nor their broken-down car in the front yard. So from here the question might be: "Well what am I supposed to do to connect the Gospel with these people?" I'd say, and this is going to sound way "out there" but, preach the Law to them, and only after they've been convicted to any degree do you give them the Gospel.

In our man-centered society, we want "results." What if we preach the Law and we get no response? Then how are we to have any "fruit" in our ministry? Perhaps we should get creative and try to form some connections between his broken-down car and his girlfriend to Jesus Christ, then he'll want to hear about it? I say this is where we lose the battle and we cater to our hearer's felt needs instead of relying on the Law/Gospel to do its work. My advice would be to simply be faithful and trust that after you have presented the Law and Gospel accurately, faithfully, and winsomely, that the results will be up to God, and He WILL call His own to Himself! 

You might not get much in the way of results, but the one or two you do get will be REAL, because you trusted the power of God's Word and not in your ability to overcome people's felt needs and tell them how Jesus will be able to "help them out" in those areas.

At the same time, I also agree with Abd_(long name). There's nothing wrong with befriending these people and trying to help them out in any and every way you can, simply because they are people, not "necessarily" because you are trying to convert them. Helping them out has a dignity of its own, and it doesn't always have to "be about the Gospel" to have any merit. In doing so, you just have to be cautious to remember that "helping them out" doesn't equate to the Gospel, in either their's nor your eyes. I came from a background where most peoples' testimonies wasn't much different than, "These nice people befriended me and now I'm a part of it and its great!" 

As usual, just me two cents, Mate!


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## ChristianasJourney (Oct 23, 2004)

"Listening" may be the best way to minister to them, at the moment. And once you've started to minister to them in this way, when you do build up trust and confidance they may be more receptive to hearing what you have to say.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 23, 2004)

alwaysreforming summed up my views on the issue in more detail. I also agree ChristianasJourney in that while these problems are not the main, important and crucial issues they still are an 'issue' and by just listening to them you can gain their confidence.


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## Contra_Mundum (Oct 23, 2004)

If I may respectfully disagree at a crucial point: 
Listening _itself, alone,_ is no ministry at all. There is no _ministry_ apart from the Word. Your standpoint needs to be clearly established EARLY ON in the conversation, not after many minutes, hours, or days of "listening." If that person ever thinks you will _simply_ listen to them, and never expects you to talk evangelistically to them--just nod affirmingly, smile understandingly, join with them in railing against (e.g.) unfaithful spouses/girlfriends--or refuses to listen when it comes time for you to have your say biblically, ...
May I put it bluntly? Your valuable, Christ-owned time is better spent elsewhere.

Listening is fine, as long as that person knows you are not listening to their complaints and troubles because you commiserate with them. You may feel compassion for them, and even think they have "points" or were wronged. But if an unbeliever, their approach to their problem is 180 degrees wrongheaded. Totally, and utterly, and damningly erroneous. What good does it do a fool to get his marriage straightened out to his satisfaction, using "techniques," (assuming a kind of "success" is achieved without the Spirit's help) if he now goes cheerfully to hell? 

Your listening needs to be _*purposeful.*_ That is, you need to listen with a goal of finding way of steering that conversation into a collision course with God's Word. And _your_ goals should be transparent to that individual, or else they will correctly judge you to be duplitious, or a useful idiot for _their_ purposes.


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## Craig (Oct 24, 2004)

I know what you're saying Janice...you do need to find someway of presenting Christ in a way that hits them in the gut, if you will. 

Excellent points, Bruce. I think I err on the listening part...you can't lead someone to Christ if you're letting them direct the conversation.

I need to just get over my fear of sounding like a bible thumper.

[Edited on 24-10-2004 by Craig]


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 24, 2004)

> I need to just get over my fear of sounding like a bible thumper.



I'm called that all the time.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 24, 2004)

Be REAL with them. If they are avoiding talking about God, just ask them why they don't like to talk about that. I find that people respond much better all around when you are not trying so hard to make them feel uncomfortable. The Gospel, in general SHOULD make people feel uncomfortable. Being forthright with them, I have found, is better than trying to come in with "tactics." Then when they say they hate talking about religion, you can tell them that at the very least, they are honest - then lead them in the right direction. 

What did playing footsies under the dinner table ever get anyone anywhere?

Or, when you are introduced to someone, say, "Hi my name is Matthew - I'm a religious fanatic." After that, it all downhill!

[Edited on 10-24-2004 by webmaster]


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