# Things that have transpired



## Scott Bushey (Oct 17, 2005)

Luk 22:31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 

Amo 9:9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. 

Isa 48:10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction. 

In light of the last few days, I am submitting the short post in response to the obvious reactions:

The PB's goal is to glorify Christ. There are different opinions on how this is to be accomplished. It is not to be argued that Pastor Ways critique is close to accurate.

He writes:


> You see, we have become so arrogant and so sure of ourselves that if one sees the board as unedifying then they are not asked, "What is not edifying? What can we do to make it edifying?" No. The response is, "Well, it is edifying to ME, so if it is no longer edifying to you then perhaps you would be better off to leave."



Not everyone will be edified here. It is the plain fact. We are not ecumentical, we are biblical. There are disciples whom will reject even Gods word. I have been a member of many a discussion list. If the list is not edifying, I depart. It is not a matter of the owners catering to everyone's needs. It will not happen this side of Heaven; unfortunate, but true!



> There is such potential here for good, and such for evil! The word evil at its root means "to harm." And the Puritan Board, with all the good that is here, is quickly falling into an arena where those who participate here lurking and reading and learning are more likely to be harmed than helped in their Christian walk. We cannot risk being called to account for the offending of "little ones."



This is a matter of opinion. I can elbow up to Phillips concern however. This is important. None of us are intentionally doing this. The fact that more will be harmed than blessed, I disagree.

Certain realities have come to light, i.e. "This is not a church" & "The discussions are terribly heated". The obvious division that has taken place in the paedo/credo camps are unfortunate. It is true, God has saw fit to leave it this way. Are the divisions of this sort needful or relevant; I believe so. What is the believer to do, die on the specific hill? Surely not. There are more important things that need improving upon. There are widows and orphans whom need our time, hungry peole whom need food and clothing. The sickly need balm. The earthquake in Pakistan is climbing toward 50K; have any of you prayed for them? 

As Dr. McMahon has clearly annunciated, the PB is not a church. This has been one of my major gripes and pet peeves over the last year. I have had to deal painfully with some of our dear members because of their lack of physical relationship w/ Christs local body. Their memberships were revoked. The last thing we wanted the responsibility in was replacing the need for a local church. Having said this, the board is a place to come for discussion. Dialoging has always been controversial. It is not the same level of communication that transpires at a traffic light crossing the street. Those conversations are superfiscial at best.

The PB is more of a virtual calculator or lie detector if you will. There are tons of equations to be addressed and the sum total of those equations are many times painful. The devil is a liar, he has been such since the beginning of time and this board is a tool to expose him. This board helps bring truth to our souls. 

The other day, Matt mentioned 'growing pains'. Not the show, but the literal physiology that occurs as you grow into your body. Pains in the limbs you get as a kid from growing. I do not recall them! He did; "They were painful!". In the same way, this board can be painful. It provokes growing pains. Some of the members are like me, we don't feel them, others are like Matt. Whatever the case, the stretching is needful.

Could you imaging a chess game where the participants said absolutely nothing to each other? Imagine it being a rule; no talking at all. No emotions. Like poker. Put on your best _chess_ face. It would ruin the game. The game is a communicative tool. It brings people together. Does it ever get heated? Absolutely. 

Like this board, dialoging will always bring heat. Some will get upset. Some may even leave. Our responsibility as believers is to love each other, forgive, forget, and to pray one for the other. How many of you pray for this board?

The term "Keyboard Theologians" have been tossed to and fro. I guess that would include me as I have no formal training less the Holy Spirit of promise. I thank God for all those young disciples whom love the Lord to the degree they are _obsessed_ with the word of God. Do not be offended that you have been labeled as such. I exhort you as the apostle; be quick to listen, slow to speak. Don't let anyone find a reason to look down on you and use your age as an excuse! Acknowledge that you have much to learn and be humble in it. It does not weaken your armour! Remember David and Goliath. 

It is obvious God is sifting us. How shall we respond? We will consider the obvious reactions. I guess some will cry in pain, others will be much like myself, neutral. It is more of mental anguish on my end. Yet, I am confident God is and will be glorified; and this is ultimately our goal, is it not?

The PB is the minutia; never forget that. Life is but a vapor, here one minute, gone the next. In no time at all, we will all be dead and with our King. No one will ever remember that the PB ever even existed or Cage Fighting for that matter. 

For His glory,

SPB

[Edited on 10-17-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 17, 2005)

Thanks for your take on this Scott. It's been a slightly confusing mess for many of us as of late.


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Thanks for your take on this Scott. It's been a slightly confusing mess for many of us as of late.



I appreciate it Adam. None of us are perfect or above reproach. What everyone needs to understand is that in the same way God has a divided and compound sense, so do these disagreements. There are two sides to a coin.


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 17, 2005)

Truth?

I suspect there are more here that are not the least bit concerned or even affected in any way by these disagreements driving some to leave. Honestly, I think the departures are having more of a negative affect on others than the disagreements ever did.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 17, 2005)

I agree, it has been stunning and confusing for myself as well. Unfortunately, I know that this is how it goes at times. I honestly am not even certain what happened. I do trust the Lord in these matters, however, I will miss some of these members as they were such a part of the board.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 17, 2005)

Yes, I am a bit confused as well. Some say they are "exiting" and then say they are going to just be members. Its confusing. I think the diatribes that are sometimes written would have been better off simply stated in a sentence or two. It would help with the overall tenure of thier depature, I mean staying, I mean departure...??


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## doulosChristou (Oct 17, 2005)

Just a few observations regarding concerns I have over how Scott´s post might be read:

(1)	He quotes a few verses about sifting and refining. The sifting process involves removing chaff from wheat and the refining process involves removing worthless dross from precious metal. Some might read this to mean that Scott is making out the godly men who have lately stepped down as our moderators out to be chaff and dross.

(2)	He writes, "œIt is not to be argued that Pastor Ways critique is close to accurate." Some might read this as a new rule governing what may and may not be posted on the Puritan Board, as if anyone who does argue that Pastor Way´s critique is close to accurate, as I believe it is, they will be censured.

(3)	He writes


> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_The PB is more of a virtual calculator or lie detector if you will. There are tons of equations to be addressed and the sum total of those equations are many times painful. The devil is a liar, he has been such since the beginning of time and this board is a tool to expose him. This board helps bring truth to our souls.


 This could be construed by some to be suggesting that those stepping down are liars who have been exposed or at the very least men who would not accept the truth being brought to their souls.

(4)	He writes


> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_The other day, Matt mentioned 'growing pains'. Not the show, but the literal physiology that occurs as you grow into your body. Pains in the limbs you get as a kid from growing. I do not recall them! He did; "They were painful!". In the same way, this board can be painful. It provokes growing pains. Some of the members are like me, we don't feel them, others are like Matt. Whatever the case, the stretching is needful.


 Some might construe this to mean that the stepping down of these godly men is viewed by Scott as a very positive thing that aches a little at first but is a sign of positive growth in the right direction.

(5)	He writes


> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_It is obvious God is sifting us. How shall we respond? We will consider the obvious reactions. I guess some will cry in pain, others will be much like myself, neutral. It is more of mental anguish on my end. Yet, I am confident God is and will be glorified; and this is ultimately our goal, is it not?


 Again, some might read this to mean that God has just further purified the Puritan Board by removing some chaff from their positions as moderators to the glory of God. 

With all charity I certainly doubt he meant his words to be taken in these ways, but I am concerned that they may be so taken when plainly read considering the recent events and the language he employs. Just some concerns.

dC


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 17, 2005)

Gregory,
Thank you for clarifying. You are correct. I do not intend to call anyone or imply someone _lied_ or is a liar. I am not referring to any individual as _chaff_. As far as the issue of the stepping down of whomever, God will use it to His glory and our good. That is the gist of the post. the Luke and Isa passage shows that believers are sifted! 


However, let it be known, the board does censure to a degree. That is what the mods and admins control; It is not a free for all here. If something is posted that is questionable, it will be pulled and either deleted or edited for content. This is not a new protocol.


[Edited on 10-17-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by alwaysreforming_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by webmaster_
> ...



Chris - no, this is not directed to anyone directly, but just towards the basic tenure of those leaving and coming back after they blow off stream with writing emails, diatribes, posts etc - (how they are leaving) - and then, after a week, they are back again _as if they didn't say anything_. (And some of them are still on the board! - whom we love, but....we just don't understand why they make a big deal before they left, then came back (??)). That seems to be a reoccurring event, and its happened more time than I have finger or toes to count. Again, we love that they are here, but we hate the fuss they make before they go, and then come back. It seems their disappointment could be handles in a more dignified manner. Because int he course of things, there is much recourse that actually takes place (complaining). Those emails, U2Us, posts, letters, and even calls sometimes, are beneath the dignity of the people who have written / called. There are better, more edifying ways for people to do that. I'm not trying to be callous at all, and I hope my disparagement at that kind of behavior is not seen as such. 

Some people have left the board very graciously. That is seen by their final posts and their interaction, and reason for leaving.


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## alwaysreforming (Oct 17, 2005)

I understand, Dr. Matt. Thanks for clarifying. (By the way, right before you replied I deleted my post as I felt it didn't add to the discussion, but as its above in its entirety, I guess nothing is lost.)


I think some people just get entirely frustrated and angry and make rash decisions about what they should do, kind of like storming out during an argument. It is usually evident in their final posts that this is what's going on.

I shall pray for the Board.


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## Herald (Oct 17, 2005)

There is a specific dynamic at work on the PB that is more honest than what we see in church. How many of us are as forward with our contrary positions in church as we are here? There is a certain amount of anonymity in the PB that is not there in the local church. It is far easier for us to offend a brother in here. For the most part we do not see them face-to-face. Our character (or lack, thereof) is more visible in here at times. Does that say something about the overall maturity of believers? Perhaps.

I enjoy being part of the PB. It didn't take me long to have my ego bruised, but that is a good thing. I tend to think more highly of myself than I ought, so humility is needed. Like Scott, I saw the credo/paedo debate bring out attitudes that were more extreme than other threads. But the debate itself is necessary. 

When the PB (or anything else) usurps the place of our local church family, it is time to make tough decisions. The PB does serve a purpose (In my humble opinion). It is a forum for theological discussion. For me, it allows me to dialog with brothers and sisters outside of my denominational paradigm. That is a good thing. No denomination has a lock on the truth. It is good to hear from different points of view. Of course, the bible is the final arbiter. I appreciate the views of my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. Disagreement, so long as it is in love and biblical, is fine. It is how most of us grow in regards to our faith. 

I do not plan to leave the PB, unless I am booted out. If anyone even suspects that I am elevating the PB above my church family, please call me on the carpet. 

Bill









[Edited on 10-17-2005 by BaptistInCrisis]


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