# The way of the master...?



## PresbyDane (Apr 11, 2009)

I hope this is the right forum or else please move it.

I would like to hear some comments and crituique about these series on dvd.
I would like to know both good and bad.
Both about the pratical side of it, the approach, he way to do it, and the theology.
A frind of mine that is very much into evangelism recommended these to me, so now before I watch them I would like to hear some comments on them.


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## harvelljr (Apr 11, 2009)

Hello Re4mdant. While I do not know much about the Dvd series, I will state that I believe Kirk Cameron to be very powerful in his methods of evangelism. If you will Goggle his name you will see that he just appeared on TBN's Praise the Lord show and interviewed John MacArthur on top of that. It is great to see two men like this being able to be seen on a heretical network such as TBN. 

I believe Kirk Cameron is using what Luther called "The Evangelical use of the Law." This is where you use the law and show the sinner what he is guilty of and then come back and show him the gospel. You preach the law one time and the gospel the next. The law and the gospel, the law and the gospel......
If you cease to preach the law you will end up with what is in today's church and that is one will forget that they were saved from their sins. They will forget that it is because of God's grace and mercy that we have obtained so great a salvation.


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## Herald (Apr 11, 2009)

Martin, 

Ray Comfort presents a very solid Law-Gospel. As far as canned/systematic approaches to evangelism, WOTM is okay. I wouldn't take it any further than that.


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## ReformedWretch (Apr 12, 2009)

Martin, I love WotM stuff, it's encouraging and helpful in your witnessing.


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## OPC'n (Apr 12, 2009)

What I have heard of his it's pretty good


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## Michael Doyle (Apr 12, 2009)

I have been using the WotM for 4 years. It is a effective way at formulating the gospel to unbelievers. I have had to modify it a bit because it assumes all to be unbelievers(overstatement) and I believe the gospel is advantagous for all to hear, believers and unbelievers alike. 

It makes the gospel message much more simple for all to engage people.


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## PresbyDane (Apr 12, 2009)

Thank you all very much for these comments, and please tell me more, I would like to hear even more comments.
Until now it sounds really good


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## TaylorOtwell (Apr 12, 2009)

I have used the WotM tracts and methods in the past, however, I do have some concerns that have arisen out of my personal experience in using this method.

One concern is the medium through which the message is presented. Of course, some of the popular ones are million dollar bills, tickets to heaven, comic-style tracts, "big" money, etc. However, I'm wondering if these things really convey the weight of the message of the Law and Gospel. For instance, the receiver is smiling and enjoying the "cuteness" of the tract, then they are supposed to switch to contemplate the weighty things of eternity? In my personal experience using WotM, I have found this to be an inappropriate transition. 

On a slightly _ad hominem_ note, I am also concerned about the attitude of many of those who are embracing these methods. Many go out and street preach, have pictures taken of themselves, video themselves, post it on YouTube, and do what? Sit back and pat each other on the back about how well they street preached? How funny those hecklers were? All the while, the two guys discussing the Scriptures in the cafeteria aren't getting any publicity, but a rich, lasting understanding of the gospel is being developed. I'm also worried that those who do not really thoroughly understand the Gospel themselves are quickly embracing the WotM methods and evangelising in a sub-conscience effort to save themselves. I think the unspoken assumption is, "real Christians hand out a lot of tracts and, if they are really hardcore, street preach". No mention of faithfulness to the local church; no mention of receiving Word and Sacrament.

If we want to be pragmatic about things - I have personally never seen one sound conversion from using the WotM methods, and I have seen it used on hundreds of people. However, I have seen tons of fruit from meeting someone and simply asking them if they would like to get together and read and discuss portions of Scripture together on a weekly/daily basis. I think we would do well to examine the New Testament patterns of lay-evangelism. Primarily, I see godly living emphasized. For ministers, it seems serious diligence to the Word and Sacrament is the primary concern.

I have a friend who attends TMS in California who was very involved with me in using WotM in college. He told me that he went up to some unbelievers and did the whole "Hey, did you get one of these?" tract distribution thing. The unbelievers threw the tract back in his face and said if he really believed the Gospel he wouldn't have to trick them with million dollar bills. That really made him reconsider what we were doing.

If interested in using gospel tracts. I would heartily commend the Two Ways To Live materials. They are much more thorough (while still being only a few pages) and, in my opinion, more appropriate to the message of the Gospel


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## Michael Doyle (Apr 12, 2009)

TaylorOtwell said:


> I have used the WotM tracts and methods in the past, however, I do have some concerns that have arisen out of my personal experience in using this method.
> 
> One concern is the medium through which the message is presented. Of course, some of the popular ones are million dollar bills, tickets to heaven, comic-style tracts, "big" money, etc. However, I'm wondering if these things really convey the weight of the message of the Law and Gospel. For instance, the receiver is smiling and enjoying the "cuteness" of the tract, then they are supposed to switch to contemplate the weighty things of eternity? In my personal experience using WotM, I have found this to be an inappropriate transition.
> 
> ...



Taylor, I find your thoughts to be very astute. There are certainly shortcomings in this method. I have enjoyed personal growth from it but also have become disenchanted over all the "evangelists" blogging, message boards and you tube videos. They would adamantly deny any self promotion in this but it does seem hard to defend against.

I belonged to several evangelism MB`s and have since resigned from them all as they have assumed the role of church in many respects and there seems much boasting. I made a public cry to avoid *elitism* and it was I who was charged with the offense for standing in opposition. This is the unfortunate fruit of the WotM method. Again, I would not say it was all bad and the method itself seems to be effective. 

I too, like Taylor, find equal or greater benefit in the investing in anothers life to discuss intimately the bible and salvation and the likes. My


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## euaggelion (Apr 14, 2009)

*God used WOTM to present the Gospel to me*

I heard the Gospel, the REAL Gospel, for the first time from (the founder of WOTM) Ray Comfort's sermon "Hell's Best Kept Secret". God used Ray to show me my sinfulness and need for a Savior. Prior to that, I had never heard a proper presentation of the Gospel. That was 7 years ago. I use their method of evangelism and tracts to witness all the time. They are Biblically and theologically sound.


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## Der Pilger (Apr 16, 2009)

I've used WotM often in the past and have done evangelism with others who have used it. I see good and bad to it (as you probably could with any method).

*The Good:*

The method provides a solid, logical structure for communicating the gospel. This might sound trivial, but if you have a hard time staying on topic, this can be very helpful. It starts with the law (as others have indicated) and then progresses to the gospel--hopefully (see my comments below).

Here's a sample, fictitious conversation that should convey how the WotM is used to present the law to give the knowledge of sin. It's not a script published by the WotM ministry, so keep that in mind; it simple reflects how I and others have used it. It's called the "good test." ('E' stands for evangelist and 'L' stands for listener, or lost if you will):

E: Would you say you're a good person?
L: Sure, I'd say so.
E: Would you mind taking a little test to see if that's true?
L: Sure, why not.
E: Okay, have you ever told a lie?
L: Sure, everyone has.
E: Okay, what does that make you?
L: A bad person?
E: More specifically, what does it make you?
L: A liar?
E: That's right. Have you ever taken God's name in vain (used it as a curse word)?
L: Yeah, I've done that.
E: What does that make you?
L: I'm not sure.
E: The Bible says that's blasphemy. 
L: Oh, I guess I'm guilty of that, too.
E: What about honoring your mother and father?
L: Sure, I've done that.
E: All the time, ever since you were a little kid?
L: Yeah.
E: Did you ever disobey your parents?
L: Well, yeah, everyone does.
E: Disobeying your parents is not exactly honoring them, is it?
L: Well, no, it isn't.
E: _________, by your own admission, you've been a liar, a blasphemer, and you've dishonored your parents, and that's just three of the commandments.

That's essentially the "good test." Hopefully from that point the evangelist will then transition to the gospel.

Another good thing about the WotM is that it encourages the lay-person to take the gospel to the lost and present it directly instead of using back-door, manipulative tactics, such as friendship evangelism.

*The Bad:*

This might not be what the WotM method intends, but I've seen others who use this method get so caught up in their discussion of the law that they never--or only briefly--mention Christ. "Law to the proud, grace to the humble" is something of a motto with these folks, if my experience with them means anything. The idea is to emphasize the law with those who are self-righteous (think they are morally acceptable to God without Christ) but to preach grace to those who have accepted the fact that they are sinners, all their righteous acts are as filthy rags, and so on. I see a problem with this, though. It seems to put the evangelist in the position of judging the motives of another person's heart. How do you know when a person is ready to hear about grace? And even if we could know such a thing, does scripture warrant our withholding Christ (the good news) from people? 

In addition--and again, this might not be what WotM is designed to do--I've seen people spend so much time on sin that it seemed like they were trying to do the convincing of sin themselves rather than allow the Holy Spirit to do it. I've heard conversations get stuck in an "infinite loop" (to borrow a computer programming phrase) about sin, with the evangelist banging his head against the wall trying to convince the unbeliever that he is guilty of sin and the unbeliever debating him on fine ethical and moral points (e.g., Sometimes it's good to tell a lie if it means you'll end up protecting someone from harm; it might be right to steal if a person is starving; and so on)--all without ever moving on to talk about Christ and lift him up.

One other negative (again, probably not what WotM intends): From what I've seen, it seems that adherents of the WotM approach follow it dogmatically and exclusively, almost, it would seem, to the point of rejecting all other methods of sharing the gospel as somehow falling short. For example, one such individual with whom I used to do outreach stuck tenaciously to the biblical definition of sin found in 1 John 3:4: "Everyone who makes a practice of sinning also practices lawlessness; sin is lawlessness." There's nothing wrong with using this as a definition of sin, but he seemed completely closed to the idea that the Bible provided other definitions. When I tried to point out the definition of the actual Greek word for sin (hAMARTIA: missing the mark), he did not seem willing to accept it.

Finally, I've noticed (and my experience is limited) that those who adhere to this method tend to follow it with a cultlike allegiance. For example, they recommend and distribute Ray Comfort's sermon "Hell's Best Kept Secret" as if it were indispensable. They tend to think of it as highly as scripture itself--at least that's what I've perceived. Quite frankly, I listened to the sermon myself and didn't find it to be all that fantastic--okay, but not fantastic.

In the outreach ministry I'm involved with, we incorporate WotM's "good test" but also use some other approaches, too. So it definitely, in my opinion, has its strong points.


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## Phil Fourie (Apr 21, 2009)

We have done a training program with the DVD's in our church, I would say it is a very good method for engaging people to witness to them, showing them their need for a Savior, especially using the law to do this is a great tool.

With that said, if the person using the method doesn't have a sound gospel, he will get to the point where he will have an open door to share the gospel, but have nothing to say, this I have seen with the people in our local church.

I am responsible for evangelism training in our church, so what I will do is use this program with others as witnessing techniques, but focus more of the time on the gospel. As the person now has seen he is a sinner, I need to share with him the full gospel so that he does not only see he is a sinner but comes under the conviction of the Holy Spirit regarding his sin. For him not only to see his sin, but to be devastated before the Lord for his sin. Only then is it a work of the Holy Spirit and not a mere case of another witnessing technique that leads to a conversion that bears absolutely no fruit.

So basically teach people the Gospel, you will be surprised how many confessing Christians do not know the Gospel


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## he beholds (Apr 21, 2009)

My husband was the Bible Director for a horse camp for one week of last summer. We knew nothing about the kids who would be there, except that they were supposed to be Christians, and all we knew about the camp was that it was Baptist. 
Jeremy decided to use a Way of the Master video combined with Evangelism Explosion tracts and a workbook as a way to show the kids how to share their faith. We thought that even if a few were unbelievers, they would hear the Gospel presented through both of those methods.

When we got there and he started teaching them (I would sit in on the lessons as long as our babies would tolerate) we found that not one of these 20 professed Christians had ever heard the Gospel!!! We were very thankful that our whole week's lesson was teaching the Gospel!
We found out by going to their whole group chapel events that the norm for this camp was about what you can do to be a good Christian, rather than what's been done for you to become a Christian.


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