# One Step Closer To The OPC



## JS116 (Dec 21, 2011)

Hello all,

So as some of you know I am currently in the process of transferring churches,I am a member of a founders baptist church.I am leaving because of doctrinal beliefs (covenant theology,church government,moral law etc.)I havent spoken to my pastor yet about the switch but I plan on doing it as soon as I take the classes at the OPC church.I am doing it this way for various reasons,mainly because I plan on telling him about it one on one after church service.

I think it's about that time or me to switch because,I need to be in a church that I agree with doctrinally and that I can grow in with like minded believers.Also I think I have a calling to pursue ministry so I need to be brought up in a solid church before I pursue ministry and I believe the OPC will be a very good denomination to pursue it in,I like the direction the denomination is heading and where it stands with it pursuit to be continuously reformed biblically.I talked to the pastor yesterday about it and he said he thinks I am making the right move and the elders said they would be glad to fellowship with me and help me grow in my walk.

I want to ask everyone to please pray that my talk with my pastor goes well and that I DO NOT do anything to purposely offend him or my current church,because they all have helped me in my walk in different areas I love the members at my church and it's going to be very hard for me.It feels like I'm about to break up with a girlfriend or something haha..but please keep me lifted in prayer and I am open to any advice offered.

Thank you all

Shawn J


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## Rufus (Dec 21, 2011)




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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Dec 21, 2011)

I will be praying for you, Shawn.


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## Zach (Dec 21, 2011)

Praying for wisdom for you, Shawn. Sounds like the right move for you. Praise the Lord!


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## jwithnell (Dec 21, 2011)

I've never made a move between local churches, but it does sound like you are handling it well. In talking to your current pastor, I'd emphasize your gratitude for the care you have received and your conviction that your new church better reflects the teaching of God's word. Praying for wisdom!

For the future: are you aware of the Timothy Conference? The OPC actively recruits and mentors young men who may be fit for pastoral responsibilities.


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## JS116 (Dec 21, 2011)

jwithnell said:


> are you aware of the Timothy Conference?



Yes I am! The pastor and my friend who goes there told me about it,I think I'm gonna go!


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## Hamalas (Dec 21, 2011)

JS116 said:


> jwithnell said:
> 
> 
> > are you aware of the Timothy Conference?
> ...



Definitely go if you are able. I was blessed to be able to attend this year and it was both encouraging and challenging!


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## jwithnell (Dec 21, 2011)

I find myself praying often for those who will fill our pulpits next. My church might soon be participating in the internship program and I am so delighted to think we may be able to make a direct contribution to this meet this future need.


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## "William The Baptist" (Dec 21, 2011)

Praying! I'll be "switching" too... though quite a different scenario. I've been going to my church (and am taking vows the first of the year!) for a few months and the transition is different than yours.

However, I rejoice with you to have found like-minded fellowship! What a blessing it is to be with the saints of the Lord and encourage and edify one another. Blessings to you brother.


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## JS116 (Dec 22, 2011)

"Definitely go if you are able. I was blessed to be able to attend this year and it was both encouraging and challenging!"

Okay I will! Will I be able to go even if I am a member for a short period of time?


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## JP Wallace (Dec 22, 2011)

Shawn

Can I suggest one thing. I'm a pastor and if there is one thing that would really discourage me it would be a fine young man coming and telling me he was leaving just after I had led worship and preached. Your reasons for leaving are legitimate, I'd only suggest that rather than speaking to him one to one after worship you make an appointment some other time. 

Now, I'm interested in one other thing you said. Maybe someone else can answer. Is it typical that Founders churches are weak on the moral law? For some reason I had just assumed they held to its continuing applicability.


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## rbcbob (Dec 22, 2011)

JP Wallace said:


> I'm a pastor and if there is one thing that would really discourage me it would be a fine young man coming and telling me he was leaving just after I had led worship and preached


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## Pilgrim (Dec 22, 2011)

JP Wallace said:


> Shawn
> 
> Can I suggest one thing. I'm a pastor and if there is one thing that would really discourage me it would be a fine young man coming and telling me he was leaving just after I had led worship and preached. Your reasons for leaving are legitimate, I'd only suggest that rather than speaking to him one to one after worship you make an appointment some other time.
> 
> Now, I'm interested in one other thing you said. Maybe someone else can answer. Is it typical that Founders churches are weak on the moral law? For some reason I had just assumed they held to its continuing applicability.



I agree with regard to the timing of the announcement. With regard to "Founders churches" the only requirement to be on their list is to request to be on the list.* The churches run the gamut from confessional to dispensational. In some cases, only the pastor is Calvinistic and as a whole the church is not really Calvinistic. Some who claim to uphold the 1689 are weak on the moral law. But the same goes for many PCA and similar churches as well, at least with regard to any emphasis on the 3rd use. 

*The same goes for the 9 Marks list. Inexplicably they include Presbyterian and other non-Baptist churches since the mode and subjects of baptism evidently aren't addressed in the 9 Marks of a Healthy Church. But if infant baptism is sin, as Mark Dever has stated, then how can a church that is routinely engaged in a sinful practice really be a "Healthy Church" whatever other merits it may have?


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## JS116 (Dec 22, 2011)

JP Wallace said:


> Shawn
> 
> Can I suggest one thing. I'm a pastor and if there is one thing that would really discourage me it would be a fine young man coming and telling me he was leaving just after I had led worship and preached. Your reasons for leaving are legitimate, I'd only suggest that rather than speaking to him one to one after worship you make an appointment some other time.
> 
> Now, I'm interested in one other thing you said. Maybe someone else can answer. Is it typical that Founders churches are weak on the moral law? For some reason I had just assumed they held to its continuing applicability.




Thank you,I will take that into consideration and plan for it another time,I dont want to discourage him or be rude in anyway.


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## Hamalas (Dec 22, 2011)

JS116 said:


> "Definitely go if you are able. I was blessed to be able to attend this year and it was both encouraging and challenging!"
> 
> Okay I will! Will I be able to go even if I am a member for a short period of time?



Check with your Pastor (or maybe contact Danny Olinger Orthodox Presbyterian Church) but I'm 90% sure that wouldn't matter. I'm actually only an associate member of the OPC and I actually attend a PCA church. Even though I wasn't currently attending an OPC they allowed me to go and participate so I can't imagine that they wouldn't let you attend just because you are new. Like I said, check with the proper authorities, but I think you would be welcome. Feel free to PM me if you have any questions! I'll be praying for you brother as you make this transition and consider the sacred call into gospel ministry. Maybe we will be laboring alongside one another someday!


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## J. Dean (Dec 22, 2011)

Prayer for you as well. You're doing the right thing.


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## Scott1 (Dec 22, 2011)

You are to be commended for prayerfully seeking God through this process.

And you are doing much right by thoroughly investigating where you will go and be received first.

As part of the high view of the church that Scripture teaches, loving one's neighbor, preferring the household of faith, all these things,

Seek, respectfully, to be dismissed under the ecclesiastical system you are under now, whatever that is. Explain as much as you are asked, and do what is required.

Without being familiar with the system you have chosen to be under now (any vows taken?), I would think it would more involved than merely announcing you are leaving to the Senior Pastor right after the sermon, but more like having a private audience with the Pastor or an elder stating your desire to depart with their blessing because you have had a major change in doctrinal beliefs and need to worship in accordance with that.

You are still under their authority until that happens. Though imperfect, and with some wrong doctrine, it is still authority God has ordained for you.


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## Jeff Burns (Dec 22, 2011)

JP Wallace said:


> I'm a pastor and if there is one thing that would really discourage me it would be a fine young man coming and telling me he was leaving just after I had led worship and preached. Your reasons for leaving are legitimate, I'd only suggest that rather than speaking to him one to one after worship you make an appointment some other time.



I couldn't agree more!

Can I also add that you don't wait until the last minute to tell him? We've had some folks leave our church lately (some for good reasons, some for not so good reasons) and one of the hardest parts about it all has been they seem to have "checked out" long before they actually left. Then, when they finally do come to us to announce their departure and to discuss concerns, they don't give the elders any time to correct legitimate issues, since they've already made up their mind to leave and have made preparations to do so.


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## Alan D. Strange (Dec 23, 2011)

I am unsure as to the reference of Br. Franks: the OPC as a denomination does not have associate membership. While some churches do, we do not (according to our _Book of Church Order_), and the reference to it confuses me. 

Shawn, let me welcome you to the OPC. If you are interested in pursuing ministry, the Timothy Conference is something to look into for the future. It is the case, however, that you must have a recommendation from your Session and be selected by a committee of the Christian Education Committee (OPC) in order to attend. Your Session must know you well enough to recommend you. Perhaps this Session has already gotten to know you and your gifts through your involvement there. In addition to a word of welcome into the OP, proleptically, I did want to clarify what is needed to attend the Timothy Conference.

Peace,
Alan


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## jwithnell (Dec 24, 2011)

> the Timothy Conference is something to look into for the future. It is the case, however, that you must have a recommendation from your Session ...


Hope I didn't emphasize this too soon and too much. I'm just delighted in the way we are trying to prepare for the future and believe God will greatly bless us in this.


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## Hamalas (Dec 24, 2011)

Alan D. Strange said:


> I am unsure as to the reference of Br. Franks: the OPC as a denomination does not have associate membership. While some churches do, we do not (according to our _Book of Church Order_), and the reference to it confuses me.
> 
> Shawn, let me welcome you to the OPC. If you are interested in pursuing ministry, the Timothy Conference is something to look into for the future. It is the case, however, that you must have a recommendation from your Session and be selected by a committee of the Christian Education Committee (OPC) in order to attend. Your Session must know you well enough to recommend you. Perhaps this Session has already gotten to know you and your gifts through your involvement there. In addition to a word of welcome into the OP, proleptically, I did want to clarify what is needed to attend the Timothy Conference.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the clarification Dr. Strange! I guess I was getting my PCA and OPC polity mixed up.  I thought I was an associate member, but I guess I'm just a normal member? Either way, I know that I joined, and I have been greatly blessed by this godly denomination!


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## Semper Fidelis (Dec 24, 2011)

Pilgrim said:


> JP Wallace said:
> 
> 
> > Shawn
> ...



I would echo this general observation. As one who helped a Baptist Church find a pastor through the Founder's list the applicants were not necessarily Calvinistic in their soteriology and, given the polity of the SBC, there's not really such thing in my estimation as a "Founder's Church" in terms of being _required_ to hold to a set of doctrines. As Chris notes it's a mixed bag as to whether the congregation subscribes to the LBCF (even if the Pastor might) and many have the one Pastor and Deacons model of Church government. It would be pretty hard to nail down a Church sympathetic to the Founders' movement as weak on the moral law as it is a mixed bag.


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## JS116 (Jan 20, 2012)

The moment I have been waiting for is here...

Today I will be finally talking to my pastor 1 on 1 about leaving his church.

Pray that I humbly and lovingly have a edifying conversation with him.


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## rbcbob (Jan 20, 2012)




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## Pilgrim Standard (Jan 20, 2012)

Praying that much Christian charity, humbleness of heart & mind, and love will abound in this brother.


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## JS116 (Jan 21, 2012)

Yeah It didnt go so well and I dont think I will be leaving on good terms


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## Scott1 (Jan 21, 2012)

Seek, inasmuch as it is within your power, to leave on good terms- through the process you are under now, respect that knowing ultimately you must confess and worship according to what you are convinced by God's Word is true.

Believers taking seriously their calling can do no other.

Blessings.


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## Frosty (Jan 21, 2012)

Shawn, 

In this day, it is a rare thing that a Christian would be willing to leave a church he loves due to points of doctrinal precision. I commend you for standing by what you believe the Word of God teaches regarding doctrine and church government. I went through the same thing about 9 months ago and it was not easy (at first). Be sure that, as far as you are concerned, you are at peace with the pastor and your former elders.

Know that people are praying for you and that any pressure and/or confusion you are experiencing regarding your pastor's reception of the news is normal. Continue to lean on the foundation of Scripture and act lovingly towards all. Blessings!


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## A.J. (Jan 22, 2012)

Been there, done that. Praying for you, brother!


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