# Critics on Potters freedom by J. White!



## Mayflower (May 31, 2008)

What do you think of the follow critic by probely a arminian on James White's book "potters freedom (Romans 9) ?:
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White’s book The Potter’s Freedom is said on its cover to be “A De-fense of the Reformation and a Rebuttal of Norman Geisler’s Chosen But Free.” But the cover alone is a typical Calvinistic misrepresentation, and for two reasons. The first problem is that the title is based on a twisted view of the passage in Romans 9 regarding the potter and the clay. Romans 9 is the “haven of reprobation” for all Calvinists. In Romans 9, Calvinists throughout history have seized upon three verses and made them the pillars to support their teaching of the reprobation of the non-elect. Thethree verses in question are: “Esau have I hated” (Rom 9:13), “whom he will he hardeneth” (Rom 9:18), and “vessels of wrath fitted to destruc-tion” (Rom 9:22). The third verse is part of the account of the potter and the clay in Rom 9:22-24. “What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gen-tiles?” According to one Calvinist, because the potter has power over theclay, this proves “God’s absolute sovereignty to determine the final des-5Available at Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church...Elders Don Fry, James White.

A Critique of The Potter’s Freedom by James White 31 tiny of men, either to honor or dishonor, to salvation and glory or to damnation and desolation.”6When White called his book by the seem-ingly innocuous title The Potter’s Freedom, he was actually saying that God, as the potter, has the freedom to foreordain the “elect” to heavenand the “reprobate” to hell by a sovereign, eternal decree. Does Paul’s illustration of the potter and the clay have anything to dowith the salvation of NT Christians? The potter and the clay was a com-mon illustration in the OT (Isa 29:16, 45:9, 64:8; Jer 18:1-6). Never is it a reference to anyone’s salvation. Israel is said to be the clay (Isa 64:8; Jer 18:6). The clay is formed, not created. There was no clay before the foundation of the world, and neither is anyone said to be fitted or pre-pared before the foundation of the world. And although the “vessels ofmercy” are said to be “afore prepared unto glory” by God, no agent is given in the case of those “fitted to destruction.” 
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http://www.faithalone.org/journal/2003i/vance.pdf


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## A5pointer (May 31, 2008)

*Does Paul’s illustration of the potter and the clay have anything to dowith the salvation of NT Christians?* 

The answer to this question is yes. Romans as whole and the 9th chapter are all about salvation in Christ. It can be given that Paul here as well as in the election of Jacob over Esau is referring to matters not pertaining to salvation. But Paul is using these well known displays of God's sovereignty in creating and electing to make the point that he does so as well in the realm of electing individuals to salvation in Christ. This is very clear when one follows Paul's argument starting at the begiing of CH. 9 and fllowing to the end of 11. Paul is expalining why so many "Jews" are not participating in the promised salvation. The answer is simple, those not participating have not been elected. Efforts to explain this truth away are dishonest to the text. The critics assertion that the Calvinist view is pinned on 3 verses is a flat out misrepresentation.


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## Zenas (May 31, 2008)

The argument he's using, if I'm not mistaken, White dismantles in the book. And if he didn't, he should have, because he dismantled it on the Dividing Line at least once. I'm guessing that this guy didn't even read the book.


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## py3ak (May 31, 2008)

I think James White's title makes a good point. The Potter is free.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jun 4, 2008)

The author is Laurence Vance, a hard-core fundamentalist Baptist, KJV-Onlyist (I think he attends Peter Ruckman's "KJV is advanced revelation" church in Pensacola), and intense, insane Calvin-hater. My old Southern History prof at West Florida (a very strong Reformed guy) said Laurence was in one of his classes one year and gave him a copy of his book _The Other Side of Calvinism_. He declared it to be one long, hateful polemic, and the man did not make a good point in the entire thing.


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