# Pavarotti the Great has died



## BobVigneault (Sep 6, 2007)

MODENA, Italy (Reuters) - Legendary Italian tenor Luciano Pavarotti, who brought opera to the masses, died on Thursday after a battle with cancer. He was 71.

The great voice has gone silent. On a positive note, JD Longmire has moved up a rung on the ladder. Let's all hit that 'high C' one more time for both men.


----------



## govols (Sep 6, 2007)

Bout the only time I'd watch PBS would be to see the 3 tenors perform.

Great voice he had.


----------



## turmeric (Sep 6, 2007)

This is sad, but inevitable.


----------



## ReformedDave (Sep 6, 2007)

One can actually use the word 'great' when describing his voice. Many times I've been brought to tears by the tear in his voice......


----------



## AV1611 (Sep 6, 2007)

[ame="http://youtube.com/watch?v=VATmgtmR5o4"]YouTube - Pavarotti - Nessun Dorma[/ame]


----------



## py3ak (Sep 6, 2007)

Pavarotti's voice was unique, and beautiful. His recording of _Il Trovatore_ with Joan Sutherland reveals his remarkable abilities.

Fortunately, we are not left without tenors. Ramón Vargas has an excellent voice, and moreover is quite a gentleman. Juan Diego Flórez is a remarkable and electrifying singer. And while Rolando Villazóns technique is not perfect, there is a remarkable dramatic power in his singing.


----------



## Redaimie (Sep 6, 2007)

God graced him with such talent it makes me wonder in awe at what a heavenly chorus will sound like in heaven. His voice was musical beauty.


----------



## greenbaggins (Sep 6, 2007)

*Yes, he was great*

Pavarotti was truly great, but I think the greatest living tenor in Stuart Neill. I have heard him live on many occasions, and the ring in his voice is magnificent. My wife took from his teacher (Roberta Knie) for a while. She was one of the very best Wagnerians of the twentieth century.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Sep 6, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> MODENA, Italy (Reuters) - Legendary Italian tenor Luciano Pavarotti, who brought opera to the masses, died on Thursday after a battle with cancer. He was 71.
> 
> The great voice has gone silent. On a positive note, JD Longmire has moved up a rung on the ladder. Let's all hit that 'high C' one more time for both men.



Thanks, Bob - a lighter note for an otherwise miserably sad day for singing history - he was indeed the greatest tenor of his generation...I fear there will be few to fill the gap.


----------



## MrMerlin777 (Sep 6, 2007)

All I can say is,"What a voice. What a voice."

I believe that his demise will leave a void in the world of music that will be felt for years to come.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Sep 6, 2007)

greenbaggins said:


> Pavarotti was truly great, but I think the greatest living tenor in Stuart Neill. I have heard him live on many occasions, and the ring in his voice is magnificent. My wife took from his teacher (Roberta Knie) for a while. She was one of the very best Wagnerians of the twentieth century.



Its a nice voice - a bit compressed - big!...no P-man, though...nobody can match his effortless, yet brilliant sound.

Here is all I could find on Stuart.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aeTC--OyXyo


vs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsGrOfmCA1E

ah! I weep...


----------



## Calvibaptist (Sep 6, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> On a positive note, JD Longmire has moved up a rung on the ladder.



Is this that he is now a "Puritanboard Junior?" If so, congrats.

All I can find out about myself is that I am not an animal, but a human being. At least that's something, I guess.


----------



## greenbaggins (Sep 6, 2007)

You're kidding, right? P was always miked well. Stuart here is not miked for amplification. When you take that into consideration, the balance swings the other way. Stuart is much more powerful inherently. Not only that, but his musical sensibility is beyond what P ever achieved. His musical line, phrase awareness, and legato surpass P.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Sep 6, 2007)

greenbaggins said:


> You're kidding, right? P was always miked well. Stuart here is not miked for amplification. When you take that into consideration, the balance swings the other way. Stuart is much more powerful inherently. Not only that, but his musical sensibility is beyond what P ever achieved. His musical line, phrase awareness, and legato surpass P.



P was only miked for recording purposes in these instances, not magnification - he has easily sung in larger, less friendly venues and carried the house quite well. P is a lyrico spinto - S moves much more into the dramatico fach - more like a Domingo. Let's hear him do some Donizetti or Rossini - I'll bet his bel canto is nowhere near P. 

Remember, you are talking to a tenor...we know tenors.

BTW - very refreshing discussion!


----------



## BobVigneault (Sep 6, 2007)

No, what I meant is that our own JD is a tenor in the world of opera. The death of the great Pavoratti moves our man JD one step closer to being the world's Divo.



Calvibaptist said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > On a positive note, JD Longmire has moved up a rung on the ladder.
> ...


----------



## greenbaggins (Sep 7, 2007)

I have heard Stuart's bel canto, and it is magnificent. Particularly, no one does the soft end of the dynamic range like Stuart does. Yes, Stuart is a lot like Domingo, I will certainly give you that (by the way, I prefer Domingo to Pavarotti as well in general, although P sings Nessun Dorma better than anyone I know except Franco Corelli). See, I was Roberta Knie's accompanist for three years, although Stuart had his own accompanist. I also took lessons from her a few times (I'm a baritone of a more Wagnerian fach). But I know exactly how Roberta Knie teaches. She teaches such that all her dramatic-fach singers also sing bel canto with ease. She knows that flexibility in the voice is absolutely essential to being a Wagnerian, for instance. She would tell me that you cannot be a true Wagnerian without also being able to sing bel canto, Handel, Mozart, etc. She told me that if she could get through that long run in "Rejoice" from Messiah, then she could sing Isolde all the way through. In other words, Stuart can do everything that P did and much, much more.


----------



## greenbaggins (Sep 7, 2007)

P.S. Roberta also told me that Birgit Nilsson could easily sing the Queen of the Night's rage aria.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Sep 7, 2007)

greenbaggins said:


> Particularly, no one does the soft end of the dynamic range like Stuart does.



I'd really have to see/hear this to believe it - you are willing to say his ppp on the upper registers is better than Corelli and P?




> Yes, Stuart is a lot like Domingo, I will certainly give you that (by the way, I prefer Domingo to Pavarotti as well in general, although P sings Nessun Dorma better than anyone I know except Franco Corelli). See, I was Roberta Knie's accompanist for three years, although Stuart had his own accompanist. I also took lessons from her a few times (I'm a baritone of a more Wagnerian fach).



Ah! A baritone...I won't hold that against you.  

(...and a classically trained accompanist? Bravo! Have you done Faure's La bonne chason?)




> But I know exactly how Roberta Knie teaches. She teaches such that all her dramatic-fach singers also sing bel canto with ease. She knows that flexibility in the voice is absolutely essential to being a Wagnerian, for instance. She would tell me that you cannot be a true Wagnerian without also being able to sing bel canto, Handel, Mozart, etc. She told me that if she could get through that long run in "Rejoice" from Messiah, then she could sing Isolde all the way through. In other words, Stuart can do everything that P did and much, much more.



Well, she has a good philosophy, anyway. I'd have to hear more of her tenors to see how it works in practice - the tenor has it's own particular challenges. That being said, I'll keep an eye/ear on Stuart. Can you recommend any of her other students?


----------



## BobVigneault (Sep 7, 2007)

Hey I just noticed that my thread, started in order to lift the parting glass to Pavorotti, has turned into "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm a castratto obligatto, yes I canto, no you canto, blah, blah."

I'm not complaining. We can use some high brow discussions like this. Carry on.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Sep 7, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> Hey I just noticed that my thread, started in order to lift the parting glass to Pavorotti, has turned into "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm a castratto obligatto, yes I canto, no you canto, blah, blah."
> 
> I'm not complaining. We can use some high brow discussions like this. Carry on.



did you say *castrato*?


----------



## Calvibaptist (Sep 7, 2007)

jdlongmire said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > Hey I just noticed that my thread, started in order to lift the parting glass to Pavorotti, has turned into "blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, I'm a castratto obligatto, yes I canto, no you canto, blah, blah."
> ...



Yes, and the plural would be *castratti*. Back in the day, they would castrate young boy sopranos to keep them sopranos all their lives. They were considered quite the sex objects as they grew up as well because they couldn't get a woman pregnant.


----------



## No Longer A Libertine (Sep 7, 2007)

Pav was not a believer was he? I don't think that he was to my limited knowledge.


----------



## BobVigneault (Sep 7, 2007)

This is all I have seen.


----------



## panta dokimazete (Sep 7, 2007)

Calvibaptist said:


> jdlongmire said:
> 
> 
> > BobVigneault said:
> ...



Yeah, Farinelli was quite the idol...and their sexual prowess was certainly overstated...although a man's power with a male and female vocal range had to be a sight to behold. For a more exhaustive treatment of the subject see this thread. 

Bob - thanks for making me blush!


----------



## bookslover (Sep 8, 2007)

Of course, as wonderful as his voice was, more than one obituarist has noted that, for the last 10 or 15 years of his life, Pavarotti was in serious danger of becoming the Elvis Presley of the classical music world. (Too much cross-over stuff. I saw a video posted of Pavarotti and Barry White singing together!)


----------



## No Longer A Libertine (Sep 8, 2007)

bookslover said:


> Of course, as wonderful as his voice was, more than one obituarist has noted that, for the last 10 or 15 years of his life, Pavarotti was in serious danger of becoming the Elvis Presley of the classical music world. (Too much cross-over stuff. I saw a video posted of Pavarotti and Barry White singing together!)


He did worse, he sang with the Spice Girls during Australia's national anthem a few years back.

Elvis never grabbed hold of the Village People or Rick James in comparison.


----------



## greenbaggins (Sep 9, 2007)

Stuart's ppp is better than Corelli and Pavarotti, in my opinion. It is amazing. 

Her students have turned over at least once (except for Stuart), so I don't know most of her current students. Stuart was the most advanced of any of them. 

I don't know whether I've done the Faure or not. I have done plenty of Faure in the past, but I don't know whether or not that was one of them. Other things I've done: Bell Song from Lakme, lots of Mozart (including the rage aria from MF), Rossini (such as "Una Voce Poco Fa") tons of Schubert songs, tons of Brahms songs, and lots of instrumental chamber works.

Bob, you are hilarious. I laughed pretty hard at your canto comments.


----------

