# (Continental) Reformed Ecclesiology Biblio Help



## ReadBavinck (Jan 6, 2009)

I'm interested in the differences and similarities between Presbyterian and Reformed ecclesiologies, both theologically and politically (as in polity). Right now I'm putting together a bibliography for the Reformed side. Any suggestions?


Christian Reformed Church Government (Spaan)
The Church Order Commentary (Van Dellen and Monsma)
Equipping the Saints: A Church Political Study of the COntroversies Surrounding Ecclesiastical Office in the CRC in NA (de Moor)

Is anyone aware of a sunday school series or published piece commenting on the URC church order?

Thanks.


----------



## Guido's Brother (Jan 6, 2009)

ReadBavinck said:


> Is anyone aware of a sunday school series or published piece commenting on the URC church order?
> 
> Thanks.



I'm not aware of anything on the URC CO, but there are a number of books available on the CanRC CO, which is also based on the CO of Dort. See:

With Common Consent, W.W.J. VanOene (the standard CanRC commentary)
Spiritual Order for the Church, Clarence Bouwman
Decently and in Good Order, G.VanRongen and K. Deddens

You could also check out:

The Church Order: A Rule for Peace in the Church – H. Bouma

This is available at my resource website under "Translated Articles."


----------



## dannyhyde (Jan 6, 2009)

> Is anyone aware of a sunday school series or published piece commenting on the URC church order?



First off, all the modern church orders of the continental churches are based on and edited versions of the Church Order of the Synod of Dort. So you'll need to read that (see below).

To your list, add the bolded books:


Christian Reformed Church Government (Spaan)
The Church Order Commentary (Van Dellen and Monsma)
Equipping the Saints: A Church Political Study of the COntroversies Surrounding Ecclesiastical Office in the CRC in NA (de Moor)
*The Polity of the Churches (J. L. Schaver)*
*Taking Heed to the Flock (De Jong)*
*Handbook for Elders and Deacons (Heyns)*
*A Survey of the Sources of Reformed Church Polity and the Form of Government of the Christian Reformed Church in North America (De Ridder–get this through Calvin Theological Seminary)*
*De Ridder's translation of Biesterveld and Kuyper, Ecclesiastical Manual, which includes the Order of Dort (get this through Calvin Sem/inter-library loan)*
*[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Called-Serve-Essays-Elders-Deacons/dp/0979367743/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1231286042&sr=8-1"]Called to Serve[/ame] (Grandville: Reformed Fellowship, 2007), ed. Michael Brown (contains chapters on Dutch Reformed polity by URC profs W. Robert Godfrey, Michael Horton, Nelson Kloosterman, and Cornelis P. Venema, and pastors John Bouwers, Michael Brown, Daniel Hyde, Randal Lankheet, Bradd Nymeyer, Ralph Pontier, Kim Riddlebarger, and Derrick Vander Meulen)*

If you need help securing these, talk with Dr. Clark or me.


----------



## ReadBavinck (Jan 7, 2009)

Thanks, Wes.

Thanks, Danny. I'll let you know if I need some more help.

-----Added 1/7/2009 at 12:02:58 EST-----

Do you know if any of these authors attempt to explicitly distinguish their ideas from Scottish-type presbyterianism?


----------



## Guido's Brother (Jan 7, 2009)

ReadBavinck said:


> Do you know if any of these authors attempt to explicitly distinguish their ideas from Scottish-type presbyterianism?



Seakle Greijdanus touches on that a bit in his essay, "Scriptural Principles of Church Polity Concerning Broader Assemblies." You can find that in Bound Yet Free: Readings in Reformed Church Polity, edited by J. DeJong. BTW, that book should definitely be added to the list that Danny gives above. It's an excellent collection of essays on the principles of continental Reformed polity. 

It probably won't be helpful if you can't read Dutch (?), but H. Bouwman's massive Gereformeerd Kerkrecht (Reformed Church Polity) goes a bit into this issue as well in Volume 1. 

As for the other books that I mentioned above, I don't think so. They're more commentaries on the CO as such; not really interested in comparative analysis.


----------



## dannyhyde (Jan 7, 2009)

ReadBavinck said:


> Do you know if any of these authors attempt to explicitly distinguish their ideas from Scottish-type presbyterianism?



Not that I know of.

Although I am no expert of polity, when I read The Form of Presbyterial Church Government of the Westminster Assembly, I see the common polity of the Reformed churches of the 16th century, such as in Geneva, France, and the Netherlands.

I've always found it fascinating that American presbyterians are mostly unaware of this document and do not realize that their "two-office" or "two-and-a-half office" views are not found in it. Instead, it expounds Calvin's "four-office" view. Or at least it seems that way to this outsider.


----------



## discipulo (Jan 7, 2009)

Thank you for very useful resources, even for just a church member.

In a much broader scope, I just received today the P&R winter 2008/09 catalogue on the mail and this RD seem very interesting, also because focus on recent debates, and surely its Ecclesiology will also include Church Polity from a European perspective.


*Concise Reformed Dogmatics
J. van Genderen, W. H. Velema*
P&R pub.

endorsements from the Catalogue of P&R

Many of the ideas that were developed and discussed in the Netherlands in the twentieth century have become influential in North Ameriça and in other parts of the English speaking world. This translation of the dogmatics by J. van Genderen and W. H. Velema opens a helpful, orthodox, window on those discussions and is a welcome contribution to the renaissance of Reformed dogmatics in our time. — R. Scott Clark

When an 800 paga book has "Concise" in its title, we expect a different perspective. Concise Reformed Dogmatics is immersed in the theological traditions and dialogues of continental Europe, though its main allegiance is to the Scriptures by which, the authors say, all dogmas must be tested. In this book we will get the broader picture, while being reminded that good, solid Reformed theology can be found in many locations. So the
book edifies in both as similarities and its differences from the way we formulate doctrine. - John Frame


----------



## PresbyDane (Jan 7, 2009)

Thank you!


----------



## Guido's Brother (Jan 7, 2009)

discipulo said:


> *Concise Reformed Dogmatics
> J. van Genderen, W. H. Velema*
> P&R pub.



My co-pastor is involved with the foundation that saw this to publication, so I've been hearing about this coming down the pike for a couple of years already. It's great to finally see it in print. It may end up supplanting Louis Berkhof as the standard Reformed Systematic Theology text in the English speaking world.


----------



## dannyhyde (Jan 7, 2009)

Guido's Brother said:


> discipulo said:
> 
> 
> > *Concise Reformed Dogmatics
> ...



That is, until Horton's one-volume system comes out!


----------



## Dearly Bought (Jan 7, 2009)

dannyhyde said:


> Guido's Brother said:
> 
> 
> > discipulo said:
> ...



Are you taunting us poor souls? Or is such a wondrous thing actually in the making???


----------



## dannyhyde (Jan 7, 2009)

Dearly Bought said:


> Are you taunting us poor souls? Or is such a wondrous thing actually in the making???



Not taunting, just tantalizing! It is in the works with Zondervan.


----------

