# Shorter VS Children's Catechism



## nwink

What are some arguments for either starting children with the Children's Catechism OR just starting them with the Westminster Shorter Catechism? (I'm looking for BOTH reasoned arguments AND practical-experience arguments)


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## Jack K

What age are the kids and what theological training have they already had?


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## Romans922

Why do the children's catechism when you can do the shorter?


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## Wayne

The common wisdom is that the youngest children aren't going to comprehend what they are memorizing, and that it isn't necessary or expected that they will comprehend.
The point is to get the information stored away for future use. It will be unpacked over time. On that basis, I'd side with moving straight over to the Shorter Catechism.
Young kids are little memory machines and with some work, a child can easily memorize the entire WSC by the time they are five or six.

Never make the mistake of forcing the work, however. Don't let it become legalistic or a hateful thing. God forbid you should drive them from the faith by becoming an onerous taskmaster.


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## jawyman

My children are 7 and 5 years old. I started them both with the children's catechism, but when my daughter turned 7 I started using the shorter with her. Evan (5) is still learning the children's, but I will use the shorter with him when he turns 7 as well. It is a matter of knowing your children. Using the shorter with your children from the start can be beneficial for the whole family.


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## ericfromcowtown

I started using the Children's Catechism with my 2 1/2 year old because answer #1 is simply "God." He can handle that, and very short answers (we're on question #6 I believe), but he isn't up to memorizing the larger answers of the Shorter Catechism. At some point we'll switch over as he gets older.


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## Phil D.

To be honest I don't think I'm familiar with the particular Children's Catechism under discussion (there are a variety of works with similar titles). Is there an online version?


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## ericfromcowtown

Phil D. said:


> To be honest I don't think I'm familiar with the particular Children's Catechism under discussion (there are a variety of works with similar titles). Is there an online version?



This is the one we're using:

Children's Catechism


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## Romans922

I agree with Wayne, which is why I stated, "Why do the children's catechism when you can do the shorter"


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## Phil D.

ericfromcowtown said:


> Phil D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest I don't think I'm familiar with the particular Children's Catechism under discussion (there are a variety of works with similar titles). Is there an online version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one we're using:
> 
> Children's Catechism
Click to expand...

 
Thanks, Eric. Can someone give me a little info on its history (who wrote it; when; etc.)


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## ericfromcowtown

Phil D. said:


> ericfromcowtown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Phil D. said:
> 
> 
> 
> To be honest I don't think I'm familiar with the particular Children's Catechism under discussion (there are a variety of works with similar titles). Is there an online version?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the one we're using:
> 
> Children's Catechism
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, Eric. Can someone give me a little info on its history (who wrote it; when; etc.)
Click to expand...


The copy we use is from Great Commision Publications, the publishing house shared by the PCA and OPC. Here's a .pdf of the first few pages. On page 2 there is a brief history of the catechism, which first appeared in 1840 as a simplified introduction to the Westminster Shorter for young children.

Children's Catechism


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## Wayne

Phil:

Now you're in my part of town. I would have to do some work to access this, unless it is on-line somewhere (Internet Archive: Digital Library of Free Books, Movies, Music & Wayback Machine), but this may be the original document:

The children's catechism: or, An help to the more easy understanding of the doctrine taught in our confession of faith, and catechisms, larger and shorter.
Humbly offered for instructing the young and ignorant.
Author: John Muckarsie
Philadelphia: Printed by R. Aitken, bookseller, Market-Street, three doors above the coffee-house., 1780. 24 p.; 17 cm.

There is also this:
A short catechism for young children.
Author: John Brown
Morris-town, N.J. : Printed for Peter A. Johnson, 1818. 23 p.; 14 cm.


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## Phil D.

Thanks Eric (again) and Wayne! This is good stuff. I'll have to do a little more research into this (something I really like to do anyway...)


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## Wayne

Here's a list of the resources currently available at the PCA Historical Center [hint: always looking for donations of things we don't yet have]

PCA Historical Center : Research Library holdings on the Westminster Confession & Catechisms

Scroll down to near the end of that list to see the small collection of children's catechisms. From the look of that list, Joseph P. Engles may have been the author of the PCUSA published catechism. But one caution--the editor or agency head was often the sole name attached, and may not be the author.

I'll check further when I get back in the office.


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## ericfromcowtown

Wayne said:


> Here's a list of the resources currently available at the PCA Historical Center [hint: always looking for donations of things we don't yet have]
> 
> PCA Historical Center : Research Library holdings on the Westminster Confession & Catechisms
> 
> Scroll down to near the end of that list to see the small collection of children's catechisms. From the look of that list, Joseph P. Engles may have been the author of the PCUSA published catechism. But one caution--the editor or agency head was often the sole name attached, and may not be the author.
> 
> I'll check further when I get back in the office.



The Great Commision's version that I have lists Joseph P. Engles as the original author.


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## Romans922

Also, if you decide on the Shorter Catechism, I recommend NOT using the Shorter Catechism in Modern English. It loses a lot and moves commas, semi-colons around to give a different rendering, and it loses a lot in the actual language. 

Have your kids memorize it as it was first made and teach them the meaning in time. You can also teach them history in the process, history of the Church, of language, etc.


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## ClayPot

I recommend the Chldren's catechism simply because the questions and answers are so much shorter and easier for a young mind to process. Compare the questions: What is God? Children's catechism: God is a spirit and does not have a body like a man. Shorter catechism. God is a spirit, infinite, eternal, and unchangeable, in his being, wisdom, power, holiness, justice, goodness and truth.

Which of these answers might my two-year old son understand? The shorter catechism questions and answers are relatively long when you have a child who is still learning to piece together complex sentences. Of course, and argument could be made that this would spur the development of the child, and it probably would to a degree, but I prefer to have something I can explain to my toddler.


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