# Why do Jews still circumces if baptism came insted of Circum



## Reena Wilms (Mar 24, 2004)

I believe in inafnt baptism, but someone ask me the next question :

If infant baptism came insted of circumcision, why do Messianic Jews still circumsice ?&quot;

Ralph uzzled:


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## fredtgreco (Mar 24, 2004)

[quote:0e9c14002f][i:0e9c14002f]Originally posted by Reena Wilms[/i:0e9c14002f]
I believe in inafnt baptism, but someone ask me the next question :

If infant baptism came insted of circumcision, why do Messianic Jews still circumsice ?&quot;

Ralph uzzled: [/quote:0e9c14002f]

The same reason that they have Seder dinners - they are unwilling to let go of the trappings of the old covenant.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 24, 2004)

None of the Messianic Jews that I've been aquianted with believed that circumcision was in any way meritoroius in the NC administration.
They told me that they practice it out of cultural heritage/tradition. You know... the same reason why some people still hold wakes before they bury someone.


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## Scott Bushey (Mar 24, 2004)

If messianic Jews are still circumcising, it is possible that it is done solely for medical reasons alone. Above and beyond the general concensus, Jews may be doing it out of tradition also. I see nothing wrong w/ this.


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## Reena Wilms (Mar 24, 2004)

Dear Fredtgreco,

You wrote :
&quot;The same reason that they have Seder dinners - they are unwilling to let go of the trappings of the old covenant&quot;

What do you mean, i don't understand you ?

Ralph


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## fredtgreco (Mar 24, 2004)

[quote:01df78d650][i:01df78d650]Originally posted by Reena Wilms[/i:01df78d650]
Dear Fredtgreco,

You wrote :
&quot;The same reason that they have Seder dinners - they are unwilling to let go of the trappings of the old covenant&quot;

What do you mean, i don't understand you ?

Ralph [/quote:01df78d650]

Ralph,

What I mean is that they do both (Seder and circumcision) for tradition, not because of the connection with the NT sacraments. The Lord's Supper replaced Passover, and yet the fact that Messianic Jews celebrate the Seder (Passover meal) is not offered as evidence against the connection between Passover and the Supper. Just so the continued circumcision by Messianic Jews does not militate against its connection with baptism.


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## mjbee (Mar 25, 2004)

Circumcision is routinely practiced, by both Jew and Gentile, for medical reasons. Jews, however, see it as a covenant. The Lord's Supper is an abbreviated version of the Passover seder, where believers partake of the unleavened bread and the 3rd cup, which is the cup of redemption. Messianic Jews still have seders in obedience to the OT commands, which state it is an &quot;everlasting ordinance.&quot; Same with the other feasts. Go through Leviticus 23 and underline &quot;a statute forever.&quot; Forever means forever. And yes, I'm a Messianic Jew. And a Calvinist. All 5 points.


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## Reena Wilms (Mar 25, 2004)

Dear mjbee,

Shalom! Welcome to the baord. It's great to know that we a have also messianic Jews on the baord. I lived for 9 months in Israel (missionswork). Have you ever heard of &quot;Baruch Maoz&quot;, he is reformed bapist pastor in Jeruzalem,and in the Netherlands (where iam from) he is pretty known, because one book of him in transelated in Dutch, called &quot;... started at Jeruzalem&quot;.


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## mjbee (Mar 25, 2004)

Reena, Shalom! I've never heard of Baruch Maoz, but I'm delighted that there is a Reformed voice in Messianic Judaism! Most are Arminian/dispensational. Or charismatic. Got great plans for Passover? I do. It's bigger than Christmas at my house. Bee


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## Reena Wilms (Mar 26, 2004)

Dear Mjbee,

Shalom again! 
I never met a messianic calvinist Jew! I have alot of jews friends that i met in Isael, but as you wrote before they are most Arminian/dispensational, or charismatic. 

So how do see as Jew, Gods plan with your people ? Do still believe in return of Jews to there land Isreal. I know that some puritans did believe that, you can read in a book from Iam Murray called &quot;The puritan hope&quot;. 

Can you please share something about being a Jew and a reformed christian, how dealt with this. Like circumcision and your people ? I always was hoping to meet a person like you to ask these question, because forexample i could not as the question about relationship circumcison and bepatism from a covenant view, because my friends are not reformed

Iam looking foreward!

In the Gospel of the Messiah!

Ralph.


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