# Poll: Old or Young Earth?



## Justified (Oct 26, 2014)

Just wanted to poll the opinions of the board. I'm undecided myself. Thought I'd stir the pot a little (as I'm sure that this issue will.)

Also, feel free to extrapolate your position-- six day, framework theory, day-age, et al.


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## puritanpilgrim (Oct 26, 2014)

It's been done a few times:


http://www.puritanboard.com/f60/young-earth-old-earth-creationism-16554/

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/creation-poll-44445/


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## SeanAnderson (Oct 27, 2014)

When I first became a Christian, I was still a 'theistic evolutionist'. It seemed many people had interpreted the Genesis account in a way that was compatible with evolution.

However, the Bible says that sin is a curse which resulted in at least human death and profound damage to all of creation. That is simply not how evolution works; it would involve pre-human beings dying and evolving gradually before the Fall. If we are to believe this, at what point was this pre-human given a soul? He wasn't really made in God's image. There are also problems with the ages of humans who were born before the Flood, which evolutionary science would dismiss, and accounts such as Noah's Ark and the Tower of Babel, which some people want to say are fables, but are nevertheless presented as histories.

I eventually thought, Why should I struggle with these matters when the Bible is my authority? I also found resources like Answers in Genesis which expose some of the problems with the scientific theories and demonstrate a biblical interpretation of them.

So I became a Young Earth Creationist, and that is what I am today. While I do not believe it is essential to salvation of course, I think there are serious issues with the scientific world view.


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## ProtestantBankie (Oct 27, 2014)

The earth is old. I am 23, the earth is more than 250 times my age. Anybody who thinks between 6,000-10,000 years is young is being perfectly silly.


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## earl40 (Oct 27, 2014)

Well if I believe that in Genesis describes the six days of all creation ,which I most certainly do, and that "the Devil" was created in those 6 days, which I also believe, I will have to go with what scripture says...


And he laid hold on the dragon, *that old serpent*, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years.


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## rookie (Oct 27, 2014)

Most people try to fit evolution in between verses 1 and 2, and call that the gap theory since most bibles have a little foot note there. However, as one preacher said, "the only gap between verses 1 and 2, is half an inch".

I see that there are too many issues with fitting evolution in the bible. One atheist I chat to often on FB, asked me how 2 people, 6 000 yrs ago, could have produced so many people. So, I remember once I did the math (severely flawed and based on a perfect world) however I came up with about 18 billion people even before the flood.

Though I don't like his sarcasm, his king james only stance and the way he almost makes fun of his adversaries, Kent Hovind is probably one of the best debaters when it comes to debating based on historical evidence.


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## whirlingmerc (Oct 27, 2014)

When God makes a new heaven and new earth, ain't gunna take billions of years
If you said universe, I'd have to say 'depends on where you put the clock' as physisist Russ Humphreys says
Since you say earth, I say thousands not millions. Young-ish.

"SURVIVAL of the fittest doesn't explain the ARRIVAL of the fittest"
Trailer for Evolutions' Achilles Heel https://www.youtube.com/watch?
v=JETykU7YnE4 Highly reccomended


Six day, no death before the fall, not age days, not sailhammer position, not framework,
literal Adam, morning, evening day points to the sunset and sunrise of the Son of God, the literal second Adam


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## mgkortus (Oct 27, 2014)

Six, 24 hour days - based on Genesis 1-2 and Exodus 20:8-11.


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## chuckd (Oct 27, 2014)

It appears to be billions of years old, but it was created in 6 days. I don't know if that makes it young or old.


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## hammondjones (Oct 27, 2014)

Well, if Jesus said "from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female", then I'm inclined to believe that from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. (People, that is, considering the context.) How many years? I don't know and I don't really care. Sure, I'll say that the genealogies are purposeful in their construction, and if you want to suppose some large number of years in there between whomever and whomever else, have at it.


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## Quatchu (Oct 27, 2014)

Its important to note that Old Earth also rejects evolution.


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## Eoghan (Oct 27, 2014)

I spent a week with Joachim Schaven in Germany. He was extremely helpful and in consequence I am probably a bit more rigorous in my creationist model. I assume that most folks will be familiar with the reference to plate tectonics in Genesis?

I can't decide though between 6 and 10 thousand!


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## RamistThomist (Oct 27, 2014)

Quatchu said:


> Its important to note that Old Earth also rejects evolution.



Agreed. I take a cautious, humble old earth position. And I believe naturalistic evolution is a stronghold (2 Cor. 10) that must be refuted.


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## Reformed Roman (Oct 27, 2014)

I believe God created an old earth around 10,000 years ago. I wonder why I don't hear my theory more often. Would a one year old earth be able to handle creation being on it? I'm no scientist but I think God could have easily made an earth that could technically been older, if that makes sense.


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## Reformed Roman (Oct 27, 2014)

I'm not great at these types of topics, but when Adam was created, the animals, weren't they created as old enough beings to sustain themselves? They weren't all babies. If you scientifically dated them, they wouldn't have been 1 year olds at that time, why would God make an earth that wasn't mature and older too


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## Justified (Oct 27, 2014)

What about a rock? A rock that's 1 billion years old or 1 year old looks no different. I'm not saying God didn't/couldn't have made a mature earth. I've just been wholly skeptical to that view. Something doesn't seem right about it.


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## Afterthought (Oct 27, 2014)

chuckd said:


> It appears to be billions of years old, but it was created in 6 days. I don't know if that makes it young or old.


Yes, I think more needs to be specified to be clear. If mature creation is correct, it seems to me that "old" or "young" depends on what the referent of that age is. On this view, the duration of time since Creation is "young" (or the beginning of Creation is "recent") while the created things themselves are "old." Since "old" tends to create a confusing time referent, it is probably better to say the created things themselves are mature (or were created mature). Might not be a bad idea to create a thread dedicated to mature creation at some point; I think it has been a while since the last one dedicated to it.


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## Romans922 (Oct 27, 2014)

The genealogies make pretty clear that God created the earth somewhere around 4000BC (Lightfoot's view).


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## Miss Marple (Oct 27, 2014)

The only thing I feel like I don't pretty much know is, how long were Adam and Eve in the Garden before the Fall? Could have been a long time, or a day. Any insights or thoughts appreciated.


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## CJW (Oct 28, 2014)

I'm content with Bishop Ussher's date of 4004 B.C. for the creation.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 28, 2014)

Zach Rohman said:


> I believe God created an old earth around 10,000 years ago. I wonder why I don't hear my theory more often. Would a one year old earth be able to handle creation being on it? I'm no scientist but I think God could have easily made an earth that could technically been older, if that makes sense.



That is an interesting comment, Zach. When God created Adam, he did not create a baby, but he created a mature man. Does the same principle follow for the earth itself, i.e., it was not created in a state of infancy, but in a state of maturity and hence it appears "old"?


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## nicnap (Oct 28, 2014)

Zach Rohman said:


> I wonder why I don't hear my theory more often.



Zach, your theory has been given more often and by many others. I think the way you are wanting to phrase it is: God created a mature, fully-functioning universe with an appearance of history that it never had.


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## Justified (Oct 28, 2014)

Miss Marple said:


> The only thing I feel like I don't pretty much know is, how long were Adam and Eve in the Garden before the Fall? Could have been a long time, or a day. Any insights or thoughts appreciated.


I feel like it couldn't be long. They were given the command to be fruitful and multiply. If it had been billions/thousands of years and they hadn't had a child, they'd be disobeying God. And if they had children before the fall, it would seem that the children wouldn't be born with original sin. My


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## Reformed Roman (Oct 28, 2014)

Right. I either believe the bible was being literal. But I can't be sure what type of earth God made, how old He made it to be, and how that effects the science behind it. But I do believe when you start believing evolution as a Christian your on very shaky ground, believing in an old earth.... not so shaky


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## whirlingmerc (Oct 28, 2014)

The New Testament speaks of prophets and sacrifices back to the beginning of creation...
"...so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation..." ESV

Doesn't fit as well in an old age view, Abel dying around the foundation of the world...

"...blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world...."


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## Justified (Oct 28, 2014)

whirlingmerc said:


> The New Testament speaks of prophets and sacrifices back to the beginning of creation...
> "...so that the blood of all the prophets, shed from the foundation of the world, may be charged against this generation..." ESV
> 
> Doesn't fit as well in an old age view, Abel dying around the foundation of the world...
> ...


That verse is clearly just talking about the blood of the prophets that has been shed in all of time. The word "from" appears to mean since then (the foundation of the world) to now.


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## lynnie (Oct 28, 2014)

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood (8th Edition): Walt Brown: 9781878026095: Amazon.com: Books

Best book I ever saw on this. He gets into all the scientific arguements. Brilliantly done.


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## Peairtach (Oct 28, 2014)

Miss Marple said:


> The only thing I feel like I don't pretty much know is, how long were Adam and Eve in the Garden before the Fall? Could have been a long time, or a day. Any insights or thoughts appreciated.



It would seem that they fell before Eve conceived, since sin is imputed to children born by ordinary generation, unless someone is saying that some of Adam and Eves' children were born sinless.

Scientists may well have had similar problems dating the wine created by our Lord from water as they do dating the Earth and Universe In my humble opinion.

I wouldn't be able to answer many of the objections to the idea of a mature earth created over a short time, thousands of years ago, but science is an ongoing, longterm, inductive project, and we are only at a particular phase of discovery in that project. Many resist the implications of what they are discover.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## whirlingmerc (Oct 29, 2014)

According to Genesis, Seth was born when Adam was 130 years old 
SO the fall and two sons (possibly the death of Abel) ( and birth of an unknown number of daughters) preceded that

Genesis 5:3 When Adam had lived 130 years, he fathered a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Oct 29, 2014)

lynnie said:


> In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood (8th Edition): Walt Brown: 9781878026095: Amazon.com: Books
> 
> Best book I ever saw on this. He gets into all the scientific arguements. Brilliantly done.


Walt keeps an online version of the book updated often here:

In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - Table of Contents

Would like to see someone take him up on his debate offer:
In the Beginning: Compelling Evidence for Creation and the Flood - What Is the Written Debate Offer?


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