# The Illuminati



## Pergamum (Jan 31, 2014)

Anybody here believe in the Illuminati?

What do you do if you have a church member who believes in the Illuminati?


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## psycheives (Jan 31, 2014)

haha... Let them and not worry about it?  Of course people in power do work together and made deals, etc to get ahead and get their way. Of course men want to rule the entire world. Often, they managed in the old days to rule great numbers of people and I'm sure many wicked men are trying to now. Exactly how far they go or how united they are is not known. Either way, if it were true, God is using it for His purposes. If it's not true, God is still using the people in power for His purposes. Let us rest in God. 

The only concern I have is that many who do believe in the Illuminati tend to live in fear and anger over a sense of hopelessness to fight this power. Let us be careful not to fall into this sort of lifestyle. We do not need to "fight the Illuminati" or whatever government form there is. God commanded his people to submit to the government that God raised into that position of power in as much as it does not force them to betray God. Many times, God ordained the ancient world to deteriorate to a state of mass persecution of Christians/believers and it is likely this will happen again. But God is still in control.


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## BDB (Jan 31, 2014)

The kingdom of darkness, which we know to exist, makes the Illuminati, the existence of which is skeptical, nevertheless look like a child's playpen, does it not?


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## Edward (Jan 31, 2014)

It's a piece of misdirection so folks won't focus on the real forces manipulating society. Some folks see the Freemasons, some the International Communist Conspiracy, some the Bilderbergers, or Trilateralists, or the Vatican, or a host of other groups (some of whom have members who probably don't even know who is controlling them). Not many folks look for the Illuminati these days. My response to such a person would be 'You are missing the big picture'. 

To the extent that someone is obsessing on some portion of the picture, they should be dealt in a pastoral fashion and brought back to a focus on scripture. Because even if there is a grand conspiracy, there is nothing that can be done about it.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 1, 2014)

Pergamum said:


> Anybody here believe in the Illuminati?
> 
> What do you do if you have a church member who believes in the Illuminati?



A sort-of "yes." There is a straight line from the last neo-Platonic magician Iamblichus (who went underground when the theocratic ruler Justinian cracked down on Platonist schools) to the Templars (who were accused of worshipping Baphomet and practicisng sex magic. Whether the charges are true or not is irrelevant. Their modern-day followers specifically admit to doing just that) to the Adam Weisshaupt's Bavarian Illuminati. The Freemasons are tangential to this narrative.

Saying the Illuminati is trying to rule the world is misleading. They wield control (or attempt to) via media symbols. I won't post the link here because...well, if anyone is interested I have links to good analyses on this point.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 1, 2014)

While there is much misdirection on the Internet regarding the Illuminati (which I actually think is a tactic of the Regime), we can point to a number of facts:

1. Did the CIA practice MK-Ultra Monarch Mind Control? Yes.
2. Is such symbolism present in modern day media and pop culture? Yes. (email, FB me, or PM me for links).
3. Did Katy Perrry admit to selling her soul to Lucifer? Yes (this is fairly well-known). Same with Bob Dylan.
4. Are the Rothchilds the personal bankers of the Vatican? Yes.
5. Are the _very specific_ Baphomet symbols at the 2014 Grammy's coincidental or purposive? 
6. Is it accidental that the number of gay couples "wed" at the Grammy's is 33, which is a highly symbolic number is Freemasony and occultism?

I could go on indefinitely. Our problem is that we tend to view "ruling the world" in a Left Behind fashion: we tend to think of some nefarious individual who is controlling the world ala Nikolai Carpathia. Granted, this is much closer to being reality due to the rise of technology and electronic capital, but I don't think that's how the Illuminati works. It's much easier to control with symbols and media.

Another problem is that we tend to scoff at such an idea because "This is 'uh-Merika.'" Or we might say, "Yeah, well God's sovereign so we don't have to worry about it." True, God is sovereign but nobody takes that premise and infers the conclusion, "Well, we don't have to worry about sin, evil, or the devil." St Paul says we should "expose the works of darkness."


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## Claudiu (Feb 1, 2014)

There have always been certain people trying to control mankind, beginning with Nimrod in Babel to today's secret societies (hence the constant reference to the Whore of Babylon). The problem is that it's secret. These people act throughout history, so there are some crumbs we can follow. But one cannot connect all the dots, as many theorists try to do. When one attempts to connect the dots, the theories may have some grains of truth in them, but quickly come to sound pretty "out there." The bible shows that there have been, and are, powerful men trying to shape the history of mankind with the help of the devil. This ultimately won't come to happen (although some of their plans will come to fruition) because God is sovereign. He has ordained this to come to pass, but he is in control of the history of mankind. So ancient near-Eastern mystery religion, Babylon, the Ancient Greeks, Rome, secret European societies, the new secret powers that be, whatever one wants to point to, sure, they exist and may yield great power, even in the spiritual realm. I don't think the conspiracy theorists are wrong for pointing these things out, or even some of the overboard connecting of dots. I think they are wrong in failing to realize the sovereignty of God in shaping history.


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## Mushroom (Feb 1, 2014)

I agree that we shouldn't fear them, or fixate on rooting out every twist and turn, but I also believe we should not participate with or serve them when it is obvious, whether by conspiracy or simply dint of character, that any group or movement or nation is willfully and openly at enmity with God. The children of Israel have no place as willing load-bearers and stable-boys in the camps of the Philistines. Mass infanticide and sanction of sodomy might qualify as legitimate signs of that enmity.


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## Andres (Feb 1, 2014)

Baroque Norseman said:


> 1. Did the CIA practice MK-Ultra Monarch Mind Control? Yes.
> 2. Is such symbolism present in modern day media and pop culture? Yes. (email, FB me, or PM me for links).
> 3. Did Katy Perrry admit to selling her soul to Lucifer? Yes (this is fairly well-known). Same with Bob Dylan.
> 4. Are the Rothchilds the personal bankers of the Vatican? Yes.
> ...


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## Free Christian (Feb 1, 2014)

Hello Jacob. I have to agree that the use of occult type symbolism in our media and even some bibles is off the chart these days. Its crept in everywhere. And im in no way a conspiracy theorist or one who goes around looking for things, but its everywhere now!
There is a lot of evil forces in play today but they all march to the beat of the same drum, Satan's.
Katy Perry an Bob may have "tried" to sell their souls to the Devil but they didn't actually succeed. God says where a soul goes, not us or the devil.
I in my youth did the same thing, yep, I called on Satan and did what they did. But thankfully to God its like I said, we don't have the final say.
Im slowly on this site revealing how stupid I once was huh! Though it may be argued the "once" bit


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## Tirian (Feb 1, 2014)

Free Christian said:


> Im slowly on this site revealing how stupid I once was huh! Though it may be argued the "once" bit



whaddaya mean slowly, mate?


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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 2, 2014)

Jacob, I've looked over those Dylan interviews on that topic, and I think one should take them with a grain of salt, especially as he was notorious in putting on journalists.

Who cares about conspiracies? We know the Scripture says, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed" (Psalm 2:2), and then it is written,

He that sitteth in the heavens shall laugh: 
the LORD shall have them in derision.
Then shall he speak unto them in his wrath,
and vex them in his sore displeasure (Ps 2:4,5)

There may be many in league seeking to bring in darkness and trouble, but what do we care? It may be profitable to discern such (and be forewarned of trouble coming), but we look to Him who reigns sovereign and supreme, who works even the evil done to His glory and His people's good.


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## Bill The Baptist (Feb 2, 2014)

Baroque Norseman said:


> 3. Did Katy Perrry admit to selling her soul to Lucifer? Yes (this is fairly well-known).



I thought you were supposed to get talent in exchange for your soul? Boy, did she get conned.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 2, 2014)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> Jacob, I've looked over those Dylan interviews on that topic, and I think one should take them with a grain of salt, especially as he was notorious in putting on journalists.
> 
> Who cares about conspiracies? We know the Scripture says, "The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed" (Psalm 2:2), and then it is written,
> 
> ...



I am not a conspiracy theorist. (Although before 1918 that was actually a very respectable discipline). My point in bringing all this out--and I think my facts stand and no one bothered to refute them. I can probably list dozens, if not close to a hundred, well-documented instances)--is to warn of the real, Luciferian darkness in today's pop culture and to avoid it (for, as Athanasius has argued, to commune with someone is to share in their very doctrine and belief) so that we do not participate in it (and I am using _participate_ in its patristic connotations--methexis, which is a lot stronger than the current American term).

I work in the inner city and I have used stuff like this to teach the young adults I work with on how to avoid this stuff and often the Gospel comes up.


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## lukeh021471 (Feb 2, 2014)

Doc Marquis who does these lectures was an illuminist now a born again Christian exposes many things concerning this organization.

Front men of The Illuminati - Doc Marquis Part(1) - YouTube


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## Andres (Feb 2, 2014)

Baroque Norseman said:


> My point in bringing all this out--and I think my facts stand and no one bothered to refute them.



There is a difference in no one _being able _to refute them and no one _bothering _to refute them.


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## Edward (Feb 2, 2014)

Baroque Norseman said:


> 4. Are the Rothchilds the personal bankers of the Vatican? Yes.



The Vatican has its own bank, which is embroiled in the latest in a series of scandals that have marked its course. 

It has provided a screen for Italian tax avoidance, it reputedly engages in money laundering. They have brought in a German banker and lawyer to try to clean it up - or at least clean up its reputation. (Ernst Conrad Rudolf Freiherr von Freyberg-Eisenberg). 

The Vatican Bank or "Institute for the Works of Religion" was set up in 1942.


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## Mushroom (Feb 3, 2014)

If I knew of a Church member who 'believed' in the Illuminati I'd pity him for thinking so colloquially, but I wouldn't deride him. It's worse than he imagines, but our God is greater than any of us can conceive. I wouldn't mock at the idea that great evil is at work in the world all around us. Dumpsters full of babies' carcasses bear silent but certain testimony to that.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 3, 2014)

Andres said:


> Baroque Norseman said:
> 
> 
> > My point in bringing all this out--and I think my facts stand and no one bothered to refute them.
> ...



It's fairly well-known that the CIA engaged in MK-Ultra.


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## davdavis (Feb 3, 2014)

I would be very dubious about Marquis. Like others before him, Mike Warnke, John Todd, and Bill Schnoebelen, he has been rather thoroughly exposed. As is states at John Todd - XFamily - Children of God Marquis is known to have been a supporter of the "Family International", which is the latest name of the Children of God cult.

As Christians we know that Satan conspires to further his agenda and we know that individuals engage in evil acts. the question is what lies in between. There have been many conspiracies in history including of course international Communism. There are also many events in history where things seem to be going on behind the scenes. For example we know that the Serbians who killed the archduke Ferdinand were part of a conspiracy directed by Serbian intelligence. This is known. What many have alleged that there was a larger conspiracy for which many groups have been blamed. 

I think that while we must be open to the idea of a conspiracy, at the same time we must not surrender our critical thinking abilities. The ideology attributed to the Illuminati, is certainly that of the enlightenment, which has a clear continuity to modern times. However this continuity does not necessarily demand a conspiracy.


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## MLCOPE2 (Feb 3, 2014)

I am the illuminati.


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## Mushroom (Feb 3, 2014)

MLCOPE2 said:


> I am the illuminati.


You LOOK like the Illuminati... if that avatar is any indication.


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## Philip (Feb 3, 2014)

These conspiracy theories were almost plausible one hundred years ago when about one hundred individuals controlled two-thirds of the world's resources and a third of western men belonged to fraternal orders. However, the fragmentation that has only increased in the last century puts the lie to most of those theories, which should be chucked into the wastebin along with phrenology, social Darwinism, and other relics of 19th-century pseudoscience.


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## SRoper (Feb 3, 2014)

People believe weird stuff.


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## sheryl2775 (Feb 3, 2014)

I never heard of this Illuminati thing until my 16 year old grandson explained it to me. Whether it is real or not I do not know but what I do know is that there are many different kinds of occult practices going on all over the world. The main point my grandson pushed was the fact the Illuminati was evil and that he was not afraid because he is a Christian and God had his back. That was enough for me. I am happy he knows that God has his back.


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## Pergamum (Feb 3, 2014)

Sometimes the truth is the weirdest stuff of all.


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## Claudiu (Feb 4, 2014)

Philip said:


> These conspiracy theories were almost plausible one hundred years ago when about one hundred individuals controlled two-thirds of the world's resources and a third of western men belonged to fraternal orders. However, *the fragmentation* that has only increased in the last century puts the lie to most of those theories, which should be chucked into the wastebin along with phrenology, social Darwinism, and other relics of 19th-century pseudoscience.



Edit: should read "apparent fragmentation". 

A look into what goes on behind the scenes will reveal that it is still about "one hundred individuals" who control "two-thirds of the world's resources ..." The issue is that it's far more secretive now and so it's very easy to say that the Rothschild's and Rockefeller's of times past are insignificant today. Even a cursory overview of the Rothschild family will underscore the fact that the few are still in control of the many. I have many family members who were involved (and some still are) in finance, corporations (Fortune 500 ones at that), and governments. A part of my family has a Jewish heritage, which led to an attitude of superiority. But, worst of all, not only were they religiously persecuted, most of them were steeped in the occult. For some, even after converting to Christianity, they continued certain occult practices. [Sorry, I can't get into specifics here.] I don't speak as a conspiracy theorist, but as one who has heard first hand from close ones about what happens higher up in the economic and political realms. Sure, there are whack jobs out there falsely concluding some theories, but that doesn't mean we should disregard all the conspiracies in history.


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## Wayne (Feb 4, 2014)

Even if every bit of it all were true, it is not worth a Christian's time. It is at best a distraction from serving the Lord in our calling. What would you do about it anyway?

Psalm 37 pretty much says it all.


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## Pergamum (Feb 4, 2014)

Should we safeguard against snakes on our path just because God is sovereign and we'll go to heaven no matter what happens?


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## RamistThomist (Feb 4, 2014)

Wayne said:


> Even if every bit of it all were true, it is not worth a Christian's time. It is at best a distraction from serving the Lord in our calling. What would you do about it anyway?
> 
> Psalm 37 pretty much says it all.



I agree, but at the same time Paul said we aren't ignorant of Satan's schemes and that we should expose the works of darkness. I don't really worry about this (don't have cable, etc) but it is important enough so that I can warn people not to have koinonia (and I mean that in the most intense, Patristic usage of the word) with the essence of darkness.


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## Free Christian (Feb 4, 2014)

Tirian said:


> whaddaya mean slowly, mate?


 I was stupid, still a bit left


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