# Picking random Bible verses?



## InSlaveryToChrist

What are your thoughts on picking random verses from the Bible, especially in a situation where you're desperate for wisdom from God's Word? In which situations is this appropriate/inappropriate?


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## Wayne

Always inappropriate. The classic example being the guy who opens his Bible at random and picks a verse:

"And Judas went out and hung himself."

No, that won't do. Let's try again. Flip to a different portion of Scripture:

"Go, thou, and do likewise."

An extreme example, meant to be taken with some humor, but which also makes the point.

Instead, if you are looking for guidance from Scripture on some issue and don't know where to turn, that's one good reason why this Board exists. Come here and ask.

And first and foremost, don't forget to pray about it, whatever the issue may be.


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## Weston Stoler

Well you know Augustine did this once...... Not saying it is right just giving an example.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

Wayne said:


> Always inappropriate. The classic example being the guy who opens his Bible at random and picks a verse:
> 
> "And Judas went out and hung himself."
> 
> No, that won't do. Let's try again. Flip to a different portion of Scripture:
> 
> "Go, thou, and do likewise."
> 
> An extreme example, meant to be taken with some humor, but which also makes the point.
> 
> Instead, if you are looking for guidance from Scripture on some issue and don't know where to turn, that's one good reason why this Board exists. Come here and ask.
> 
> And first and foremost, don't forget to pray about it, whatever the issue may be.



Perhaps you could provide some Biblical support for your position? I, too, do _feel_ that it is inappropriate, but cannot think of any _Biblical basis _for my feelings. The joke you mentioned doesn't hold much water in that it presupposes God will never guide the desperate person in His Word by the random-verse method. My father always likes to retell a true story about a car accident that he got involved in in the past. He got a bad leg injury which led him to hospital, and when the operation to his leg had been done, he asked one of the nurses to bring him a Bible. He was confused of what had happened, and asked the Lord why this accident had taken place, simultaneously opening the Bible and picking a random verse. And the verse (or actually verse_s_) he got was (or so he boasts to say) Hebrews 12:5-6 which reads, 

"And you have forgotten the exhortation which speaks to you as to children, My son, despise not you the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when you are rebuked of him: For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth."

I do not doubt my father has lied to me, because he always tells the story with such a confidence.

So, please, if you could give some Scriptural evidence for the validity of your assertions.


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## Rufus

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> I, too, do feel that it is inappropriate, but cannot think of any Biblical basis for my feelings.



Can you think of any Biblical basis for selecting random verses?


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## Rich Koster

I would suggest, rather than selecting random verses, select a few words that are related to your question. Look up these words in a concordance. Read the verses that these words lead you to and see if there is any application to your situation. Another suggestion is to ask your elders for help with your question.


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## Jack K

The pick-a-verse-at-random thing is at best a lazy approach to the Scriptures. It substitutes real study of the Scriptures, understanding verses in context and applying the whole counsel of God to a situation, and instead gives a supposed quick fix. Are we seeking spiritual guidance? Well, the Spirit has chosen to speak to us through an entire Bible. If we seldom open it except to randomly pluck out a verse or two, we really aren't very interested in what the Spirit has to say, are we?

That's at best. At worst it has similarities to pagan magic. We suppose that if we go through the proper ritual motions (in this case, blindly picking a verse) God will speak to us. That's using the Bible as a crystal ball or ouija board! This is not how the Spirit has chosen to speak. Properly spiritual Bible study does not suspend our intellect but engages it.


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## Skyler

The question in my mind is not whether this is forbidden, but whether this is actually looking at God's word.

Why not flip through the Bible and pick random words, stringing them together into a sentence? Or pick random letters, arranging them into words?

What is the difference? You're picking bits and pieces out of the Bible and arranging them to fit your situation rather than looking to see what God said. Pulling verses like that takes God's word and turns it into your own.

Can God use that? Sure. God uses lots of things, including our own sinful actions. Just because He's used it for us--or for someone else--it doesn't mean that's a valid way to find His will.


That said, I would not have a problem with flipping through the Bible randomly for verses if the verses you choose are carefully exgeted in context to determine what God meant when He wrote them.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

Skyler said:


> The question in my mind is not whether this is forbidden, but whether this is actually looking at God's word.
> 
> Why not flip through the Bible and pick random words, stringing them together into a sentence? Or pick random letters, arranging them into words?
> 
> What is the difference? You're picking bits and pieces out of the Bible and arranging them to fit your situation rather than looking to see what God said. Pulling verses like that takes God's word and turns it into your own.
> 
> Can God use that? Sure. God uses lots of things, including our own sinful actions. Just because He's used it for us--or for someone else--it doesn't mean that's a valid way to find His will.
> 
> 
> *That said, I would not have a problem with flipping through the Bible randomly for verses if the verses you choose are carefully exgeted in context to determine what God meant when He wrote them.*



That bolded phrase right there is exactly what I was getting at. It seems that almost every one of the commentators here have presupposed that picking verses at random must mean the person is going to interpret the verse without context. That's not the intention! The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.


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## Wayne

> The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.



Samuel:

My hope would be that this desperate person would have, in times before his current despair, have invested sufficient time and study such that when the crisis came, 
he would know more accurately where in Scripture to turn for guidance and consolation.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

Wayne said:


> The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samuel:
> 
> My hope would be that this desperate person would have, in times before his current despair, have invested sufficient time and study such that when the crisis came,
> he would know more accurately where in Scripture to turn for guidance and consolation.
Click to expand...


Wayne,
We could always better prepare ourselves to the many struggles in our lives, but there will always be times when we don't know where to go in God's Word. So, would you suggest the struggling person should, instead of going straight to the Lord asking guidance in His Word, go to other Christians (especially elders) and ask their advice? Is this the way the body of Christ should function?


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## yoyoceramic

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> Perhaps you could provide some Biblical support for your position?



Suppose someone wrote your family a letter thanking you for how much they enjoyed you hosting them for dinner. The letter has an opening greeting, a thank you, a remark about the food and other guests, and a closing. The letter has a unified purpose: to express appreciation and gratitude. Suppose half of a sentence discussing the beautiful table setting reads ..., the flowers took my breath away.

This family reads your letter beaming. One week later their son goes into a severe asthmatic shock, and they cannot figure out why. However, as providence would have it, a seminary student is in the family, and he goes back to your letter and reads that "the flowers took your breath away", and immediately reaches the conclusion that their flowers were the source of their child's asthma! They call you on the phone and thank you for the good word you provided, for your letter gave them the answer they needed. This is what bad hermeneutics looks like. Half of a verse, ripped from immediate textual context without considering authorial intent etc.... and "applied" to some "life situation" in a ridiculous fashion.

Biblical basis: Every single time the Old Testament is quoted by New Testament authors. (Christ dueling with Satan in the wilderness may be a good place to start, or maybe some of Peter's sermons)


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## fredtgreco

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> Wayne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samuel:
> 
> My hope would be that this desperate person would have, in times before his current despair, have invested sufficient time and study such that when the crisis came,
> he would know more accurately where in Scripture to turn for guidance and consolation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wayne,
> We could always better prepare ourselves to the many struggles in our lives, but there will always be times when we don't know where to go in God's Word. So, would you suggest the struggling person should, instead of going straight to the Lord asking guidance in His Word, go to other Christians (especially elders) and ask their advice? Is this the way the body of Christ should function?
Click to expand...

You seek guidance from God's Word in the way that He gave it, and intended it to be used - as writings to His people. Not as random, wishful compilations of unattached word strings. To do so is not to seek God's guidance, but to mock Him. God is Person, who speaks in His Word, and speaks as He intended. Such mockery is more of the devil (see his use of Scripture to our Lord in Matthew 4) than of God.


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## a mere housewife

That is a wonderful point about the devil's use of Scripture. I do believe that to willfully stay on the level of using Scripture in that way is a tempting of the Lord; and it is very rife in churches which do incredible damage to believers. I have some friends who have suffered some of that damage.

Yet I do think the Lord does in His mercy sometimes communicates with us this way, even 'out of context' -- He has that prerogative, and He knows how to use it for our good. This is different than saying that we should seek Him in that way. When I was a little girl I had a habit of getting up several times in the night to go check on all my family members, to make sure they were still in their beds and still breathing (at the time my dad traveled out of town all week and my mom was so unwell I had to help care for her in basic ways and bear most of the responsibility for keeping the house together, and as the oldest daughter I felt a tremendous responsibility for my siblings). I would wake myself up and crawl out of bed several times a night to check on my family, and it was a torment both of anxiety and loss of sleep. Finally in desperation I grabbed my Bible and went and sat under a nightlight in the hall and begged God to help me. I opened to the verse that David numbered the people, and the Lord was displeased with David. You may imagine as an impressionable little girl how quickly I scuttled back to bed and how carefully I refrained from ever doing that again. As an adult it makes me smile to see, for lack of any other words, the 'sense of humor' of a merciful Heavenly Father, and to think how Holy Spirit foreknew that a little girl, one of His own (though I was not regenerated at the time), would twist that inspired Scripture totally out of context under a nightlight -- and yet He also knew how much I would need that verse. As an adult I still struggle with many of these habits of anxiety, among many other sins; but I know my Lord better now and I no longer even want to have the sort of relationship with Him that begins and ends with putting my finger on a verse in the darkness. In my regular walking with Him He addresses the anxieties of my heart. He was patient with me when I was a little girl and communicated with me when I was desperate on that level. But He wants me to walk with Him as a mature believer.

I do believe He brings verses to mind in time of need but even this is because we know and have learned to treasure and understand His word in a much fuller way. I know this isn't a theological answer but perhaps it helps to illustrate what people are saying about the greater comfort and stability of a more mature approach to Scripture? Ultimately though that approach to the Bible gave me comfort in a desperate hour, I have spent years unlearning such inadequate and damaging approaches to the Word of God, learning to read it without superstition, and to see the true gospel comfort even of that passage in David's life (which is so much more deeply comforting against fear than the way I first mis-took it).


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## InSlaveryToChrist

fredtgreco said:


> InSlaveryToChrist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wayne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samuel:
> 
> My hope would be that this desperate person would have, in times before his current despair, have invested sufficient time and study such that when the crisis came,
> he would know more accurately where in Scripture to turn for guidance and consolation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wayne,
> We could always better prepare ourselves to the many struggles in our lives, but there will always be times when we don't know where to go in God's Word. So, would you suggest the struggling person should, instead of going straight to the Lord asking guidance in His Word, go to other Christians (especially elders) and ask their advice? Is this the way the body of Christ should function?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seek guidance from God's Word in the way that He gave it, and intended it to be used - as writings to His people. Not as random, wishful compilations of unattached word strings. To do so is not to seek God's guidance, but to mock Him. God is Person, who speaks in His Word, and speaks as He intended. Such mockery is more of the devil (see his use of Scripture to our Lord in Matthew 4) than of God.
Click to expand...


So, should all writings (including the Bible) be read chronologically? Are you of the opinion that Christians should read the Bible chronologically from Genesis to Revelation? You are forbidden to jump to the New Testament until you've finished the whole Old Testament first -- isn't that what you're implying? OR are you saying it is appropriate to not read the Bible chronologically as long as you proceed from the beginning of each book? Is that how one will prevent getting "unattached word strings?" Please, expound on the phrase "as writings to His people." Also, where in His Word has God revealed this hermeneutic?


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## fredtgreco

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> InSlaveryToChrist said:
> 
> 
> 
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> Wayne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samuel:
> 
> My hope would be that this desperate person would have, in times before his current despair, have invested sufficient time and study such that when the crisis came,
> he would know more accurately where in Scripture to turn for guidance and consolation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wayne,
> We could always better prepare ourselves to the many struggles in our lives, but there will always be times when we don't know where to go in God's Word. So, would you suggest the struggling person should, instead of going straight to the Lord asking guidance in His Word, go to other Christians (especially elders) and ask their advice? Is this the way the body of Christ should function?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seek guidance from God's Word in the way that He gave it, and intended it to be used - as writings to His people. Not as random, wishful compilations of unattached word strings. To do so is not to seek God's guidance, but to mock Him. God is Person, who speaks in His Word, and speaks as He intended. Such mockery is more of the devil (see his use of Scripture to our Lord in Matthew 4) than of God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, should all writings (including the Bible) be read chronologically? Are you of the opinion that Christians should read the Bible chronologically from Genesis to Revelation? You are forbidden to jump to the New Testament until you've finished the whole Old Testament first -- isn't that what you're implying? OR are you saying it is appropriate to not read the Bible chronologically as long as you proceed from the beginning of each book? Is that how one will prevent getting "unattached word strings?" Please, expound on the phrase "as writings to His people." Also, where in His Word has God revealed this hermeneutic?
Click to expand...

If you can't see the difference between not reading random, finger-flipping selections out of context and having to read the Bible at all times starting in Genesis, I really can't help you. You don't understand basic principles of reading any book, let alone the Bible.


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## Wayne

Our God is not a God of chance, nor of chaos, nor of randomness.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

fredtgreco said:


> InSlaveryToChrist said:
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> 
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> fredtgreco said:
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> 
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> InSlaveryToChrist said:
> 
> 
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> Wayne said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Samuel:
> 
> My hope would be that this desperate person would have, in times before his current despair, have invested sufficient time and study such that when the crisis came,
> he would know more accurately where in Scripture to turn for guidance and consolation.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Wayne,
> We could always better prepare ourselves to the many struggles in our lives, but there will always be times when we don't know where to go in God's Word. So, would you suggest the struggling person should, instead of going straight to the Lord asking guidance in His Word, go to other Christians (especially elders) and ask their advice? Is this the way the body of Christ should function?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> You seek guidance from God's Word in the way that He gave it, and intended it to be used - as writings to His people. Not as random, wishful compilations of unattached word strings. To do so is not to seek God's guidance, but to mock Him. God is Person, who speaks in His Word, and speaks as He intended. Such mockery is more of the devil (see his use of Scripture to our Lord in Matthew 4) than of God.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So, should all writings (including the Bible) be read chronologically? Are you of the opinion that Christians should read the Bible chronologically from Genesis to Revelation? You are forbidden to jump to the New Testament until you've finished the whole Old Testament first -- isn't that what you're implying? OR are you saying it is appropriate to not read the Bible chronologically as long as you proceed from the beginning of each book? Is that how one will prevent getting "unattached word strings?" Please, expound on the phrase "as writings to His people." Also, where in His Word has God revealed this hermeneutic?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> If you can't see the difference between not reading random, finger-flipping selections out of context and having to read the Bible at all times starting in Genesis, I really can't help you. You don't understand basic principles of reading any book, let alone the Bible.
Click to expand...


You "really can't help" me? Sure you can't, because I got you cornered there, didn't I? You cannot even tell me where you got your hermeneutics from.


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## Jack K

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> It seems that almost every one of the commentators here have presupposed that picking verses at random must mean the person is going to interpret the verse without context. That's not the intention! The intention is that God would lead the desperate person to the location in the Bible that explicitly deals with the area that the person is struggling at in his life.



Okay, here's what I will grant:

Sometimes in the midst of struggle, a believer just needs to stop and listen to God. Reading the Bible is an excellent way to do that. So the believer might simply pick up the Bible and start reading somewhere, anywhere. If the passage is understood properly and in context, it's bound to end up being helpful, because _every_ part of the Bible is God's good Word and is profitable to us. In fact, anytime we pick up the Bible and start reading we ought expect that it will be helpful, and God will use it, whatever part we're reading.

In such cases, it might seem as if God led us to exactly the passage he wished to use to speak to us. And in a sense he did, as he is in control. But we must not think of it as magic, or that we happened to open up to the one particular passage that best helps in our particular situation. Of course the passage helped. It's the Bible, and we were seeking to hear from God. _Any_ passage of Scripture should have helped ground us better in God, provided we studied it carefully, and some might have helped even more had we utilized better guidance.

This is NOT to say the Bible may be used like a Magic 8 Ball, where we open to a random passage to try to get an answer to a question like "should I quit my job?" But assuming we're beyond such silliness, I will grant that just opening the Bible to wherever and starting to read is bound to be helpful generally in life... or at least more helpful than not listening to God at all.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

Jack K said:


> _Any_ passage of Scripture should have helped, and some might have helped even more had we utilized better guidance.



Okay, so, does reading Exodus 1 help one understand justification? Is that what you would consider a "passage of Scripture?"


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## LeeJUk

I think there are times revealed by Christian experience down through history that God sometimes can communicate with an individual on this basis. However if it's all the bible reading your doing, the only guidance your getting and if it's the normal way you try to get guidance then I think your in trouble. This is sort of exceptional but I don't think we can deny it fully. You should be getting wise advice, applying biblical principals etc... as the main way of getting guidance, but sometimes the Lord can confirm all the rest of this with verses that stick out to us. 

I've had a few experiences myself and I'm sure many of you reading this have had such experiences as well. I was about to head into a church of Scotland conference and I was worried - mainly because I was going to be the only person under the age of 40 (I was 18) heading towards the ministry[I was pretty correct - I think the next person up was in his 30's and the rest were over 40]. I opened my bible and there was "come to me all you who labour and are heavy laden and I will give you rest". I had peace upon reading that and my nerves were gone. You can call it subjective - and it is subjective, but it doesn't mean it's invalid all the time.

I think we have a dangerous tendancy to get totally rid of any realm of the subjective and supernatural in our reformed circles just because a lot of other branches of the church are over-doing it.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Afterthought

For what it's worth, James Durham....

.....on the Second Commandment

"Again, this command is practically broken four ways: 

First, By gross profanity and neglect of the practice of known duties of worship; this way, are guilty all profane contemners of sacraments, word, discipline, &c.; all neglecters of them when they may have them: and all these that set not themselves to go rightly about them, in secret, in families, or in public: and where many opportunities of gospel-ordinances are, this sin is the more frequent; and so all atheists that contemn religion, and these that would only serve God with a good heart and intention, as they pretend, without any outward worship, are condemned here: and also those who, for fear or advantage, give not testimony to the truth and ordinances of Christ, when such a testimony is called for. 

2. Men sin against this command, when they practice will-worship and superstition in serving God by duties he never required, whether, 1. It be will-worship in respect of the service itself, as when that is gone about as duty which is not in itself lawful, as when such and such pilgrimages and penances are appointed by men to be done as service to God: Or, 2. When worship, or service under the gospel is astricted to such a place, as if it were holier to pray in one place than in another, and that therefore God did hear prayer there more willingly and easily than in another place.... 7. When any take a word of scripture at the opening of the Bible, or by a thought suggested, as more befitting their condition, because of that, without weighing the word itself: and lay more weight upon that word than upon another that hath the same authority and suitableness to their case, which is to make a weerd or fortune-book of the book of God, for which end he never appointed it. Thus also men are guilty, when they account sacraments more valid, or lay more weight on them, because dispensed by some ministers than when dispensed by others, though having the same warrant, or because of the difference of the persons that partake therein with them."


....on the Third Commandment

"Superstitious observations are not so much about daily occurring providences, which all are obliged piously to mark and improve to the best spiritual advantage, and in the careful marking and suitable improving whereof, there lieth a special piece of spiritual wisdom, more especially of such providences which may, from the Lord, help either to confirm a man in his duty, or deter him from a sin or snare; as they are about some set and marked actions of creatures, and these very feckless and silly too (though I deny not, but that simply they are providences also) which are reputed to be so many fixed rules and canons of natural wisdom, but really instituted spells, or frets, or the devil's rudiments and grammar (to say so), to sink men's minds into atheism. And observations always very superstitious, when we collect and conclude that such and such events, evil or good, will happen to us, or befall us, from such and such occurring works and passages of providence, for which no reason can be drawn either out of the word of God, or out of the course of nature; in a word, for which there is neither scripture-warrant, nor can any natural cause or reason be assigned: as, for instance, to think it is unlucky to meet such and such persons first in the morning (which used to be called an evil foot) for a woman with child to step over a hair tether, for folks to sneeze putting on their shoes, for one to have salt falling towards him on the table (the fear whereof maketh some to suffer no salt to come to their table), to have a hare cross one's way, to burn on the right ear, to bleed some drops of blood, &c. Again, to think that it boadeth good luck for folks to have drink spilt on them, to find old iron, to burn on the left ear, to dream on such and such things, &c. There is a multitude of such frets and superstitious observations which many retain still, and but few without some and free of all; a sin from which it is to be feared the land hath never been thoroughly purged, since it was Pagan, a sin very natural to men, and which hath amongst Christians its observable increase and decrease according to the more or less free course and success of the gospel: All Christians should abhor such frets, as smelling strong of much ignorance of God, of much atheism and paganism. 

Of this sort, or very like them, is folks meeting with such a word in such a sermon, which may have some allusion or seeming answerableness to a case, or particular, formerly dark or doubtful to them, which they take for clearing of them, or deciding of the thing without due examination thereof, according to the true meaning of the scripture, and the analogy of faith. And their having such a place of scripture brought to their mind, or at the first opening of the Bible cast up to them, which they look on as more befitting their condition, and that because so suggested and cast up, without pondering the word itself; and lay more weight on that word on that very account, for solving of such a doubt, and for clearing and determining them as to such a thing, than on any other having the same authority and no less, and it may be much more suitableness to the thing, without any further tender and serious scrutiny, as if that were a special and extraordinary revelation of God's mind to them thereabout; which is a most dangerous practice. And (as we discoursed before on the practical breaches of the second command) is to make a weird or a fortune book of the book of God, which he never appointed for such an end; again I say, a most dangerous practice, and yet too frequently incident to some religious persons, especially in their trouble and difficulty, whereof some stupendous instances might be given, which would fright all from ever daring any more to adventure on such a practice not bottomed on the word itself, which God hath certainly given to his people to be used by them with Christian prudence according to its own principles, and not to be lotted with, or to have their state or condition, or the decision of what they are dark or doubtful about, at hap-hazard cast on it, according to their own groundless fancies and imaginations."


Also this. From Case XI.

"(3.) We are not to be guided by the bare _Form of Scripture-Phrases_. Far, very far, would I be from laying aside the _Use_ of the holy Scripture in these Points; but would only guard against Abuses of it. There are some Christians who are fond of using the Bible as if it were a _Fortune-Book_: When a Difficulty in Prudence or Duty occurs, they will open the Bible at Random, and observe what Text meets their Eyes first; and, according as the wild Imagination applies that Passage to the Point in Question, so they think it their Duty to act. This is a very weak and dangerous Practice, and a sad Abuse of the Word of God, applying it to a Purpose for which the Holy Ghost never intended it. Others will make a Random-Application of a Passage of Scripture (which suddenly occurs to, or is strongly impressed upon their Minds) to their present Case and Difficulty; never looking into, or attending to the proper Meaning of the Text, but straining and applying it to something very foreign from the Intention of the Holy Spirit. For Instance: If the Query be, whether you should follow the Practice of a Neighbour or Friend, and you have those Words impressed upon your Mind, _Go thou, and do likewise_; you are apt from thence assuredly to gather, that it is the Mind and Will of God you should do as he does. This Method of judging concerning Prudence and Duty is extremely weak, precarious, and dangerous: For it can never be supposed that the Holy Spirit intended these Words in the Bible to be thus applied and used at Random."


Edit:


a mere housewife said:


> Yet I do think the Lord does in His mercy sometimes communicates with us this way, even 'out of context' -- He has that prerogative, and He knows how to use it for our good.


Fascinating! I've also made that sort of observation.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Jack K

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> 
> _Any_ passage of Scripture should have helped, and some might have helped even more had we utilized better guidance.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, so, does reading Exodus 1 help one understand justification? Is that what you would consider a "passage of Scripture?"
Click to expand...


The example of an occasion where we want to understand justification is exactly why we ought to use our brains rather than a random flipping through the Bible, especially if we're seeking answers to something specific. We'd do better with Paul's epistles, wouldn't we?

But if I'm feeling distant from God, or sad about something, or worried about something... then I might decide to start reading the Bible and pick Exodus 1 without giving it much thought, and be blessed as I see in that passage God's providence and his desire to save and his faithfulness to his people and so on. Of course, I could probably get there from just about any place in the Bible so I shouldn't attach some sort of magical quality to the fact that I picked Exodus 1, but like the rest of Scripture Exodus 1 could be very helpful if I read it with understanding and in context. Does that make sense?


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## yoyoceramic

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> Also, where in His Word has God revealed this hermeneutic?



It is generally supposed we may follow the NT authors numerous examples of how they use the OT scriptures to make their points. Foundationally, the Bible should be read Christocentrically. We must ask the question: How does what I'm reading function in redemptive history and point to Christ.

Then he said to them, “These are my words that I spoke to you while I was still with you, that everything written *about me* in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms must be fulfilled.”
(Luke 24:44 ESV)


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## Prufrock

Samuel, if I may - it's never a good course of action to base our actions upon an expectation of an _extraordinary_ act of providence. We _are_ commanded to make good use of ordinary means: we are to faithful disciples, treasuring the word in our hearts so that we will know where God has left record in his word of his guidance, instructions, commands and counsels on different matters; and he has appointed his elders in the church, to whom the study and teaching of his word has been committed, to guide us in his word for exactly such purposes. _These_ are the things which we have been instructed to do, and accordingly are the means upon which we are to rely. We don't flip to random places in the scriptures for guidance on specific matters as though the Bible were some sort of divine Ouija board, simply because we're never told we ought to do so.

By way of picture, imagine if you will that you are a teenager, and that you're back in school. Your teacher has given you an exam in which you permitted to consult your text book. She has provided you with an outline and index to the book, so as to help you locate pertinent passages, and has made herself available for questions; and she has told you that if you make good and proper use of these means, you will be able to locate the proper information to guide you in your exam. Would you not think the student next to you was acting strangely if, when he didn't know where in the book to find a subject, he flipped to random pages and read them carefully hoping to find the answer, instead of making use of the means which the teacher carefully appointed and ordained for that purpose? Would this not seem irrational, and an inappropriate thing for him to place his hope in? So likewise, God has appointed and ordained means for us to learn and find guidance, and it would be foolish for us to reject those means and trust in something else which he has never told us would give us aid.


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## a mere housewife

As I piped up earlier and gave an illustration of how I believe God does sometimes take pity on us when we don't know any better (hence we don't have to deny that He has comforted His saints in this way at times to deny that it is a good method of discerning His will), I probably ought to add that I would have had no ability to discern what I ought to have done, had I landed instead on a verse about seeking and saving that which was lost. I would have felt that equally to be about me. The gospel frees us from this superstitious and far too often very damaging helplessness -- as with the example Rev. Greco gave from Scripture: the devil can also suggest verses, and some of those verses were even to some degree 'in context' (the devil was applying them to Christ). Christ had to be more fully acquainted with Scripture than the tempter, and that involved knowing how it spoke in a comprehensive way to His true ministry. I remember reading in a Christology paper that Christ is our example in His study of and approach to Scripture, as well.

(Sorry to add, yet I looked it up and it seemed too wonderful not to, that one of the verses quoted in that paper was Isaiah 50:4, as it applied to Christ: 'The Lord GOD hath given me the tongue of the learned, that I should know how to speak a word in season to him that is weary: he wakeneth morning by morning, he wakeneth mine ear to hear as the learned.' How beautiful that the ability of our Lord to have a 'word in season' for us is a result of being in the word morning by morning, and hearing 'as the learned'. So we who want to hear the word in season ought to follow the example of our Head in His reverence for and diligence in God's word. I'm glad I went and looked that up. It's a good reminder for me.)


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## MW

Afterthought said:


> For what it's worth, James Durham....
> 
> 7. When any take a word of scripture at the opening of the Bible, or by a thought suggested, as more befitting their condition, because of that, without weighing the word itself: and lay more weight upon that word than upon another that hath the same authority and suitableness to their case, which is to make a weerd or fortune-book of the book of God, for which end he never appointed it. Thus also men are guilty, when they account sacraments more valid, or lay more weight on them, because dispensed by some ministers than when dispensed by others, though having the same warrant, or because of the difference of the persons that partake therein with them."



Very useful; thankyou.


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## MarieP

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> What are your thoughts on picking random verses from the Bible, especially in a situation where you're desperate for wisdom from God's Word? In which situations is this appropriate/inappropriate?



"The LORD who made heaven and earth bless you from Zion!"- Psalm 134:3

"But Gedaliah the son of Ahikam said to Johanan the son of Kareah, 'You shall not do this thing, for you speak falsely concerning Ishmael'"- Jeremiah 40:16

*puts the NO LUCKY DIPPING sign back up*

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a mere housewife said:


> That is a wonderful point about the devil's use of Scripture.



Satan loved to use these verses:

Psalm 91
11 For He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you in all your ways.
12 In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.

The next verse, not so much!
13 You shall tread upon the lion and the cobra,
The young lion and the serpent you shall trample underfoot.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

I admit my behavior in my post to Pastor Fred was selfish. For that I'll apologize to you, I had no reason to think you're being unsincere. I got overfrustrated of being misunderstood by many earlier in this thread and couldn't bear the weight of your statement, "I really can't help you," because honestly I thought you were just being lazy. But that was an assumption on my own part, and again, for that I'll apologize to you. I'm truly sorry if it grieved your heart to get such a rude response to your sincere effort to help.

There is, however, something I want to make clear (to everyone): it's not as if I'm defending the position of random-bible-verse picking, while neglecting any other Biblical hermeneutics. I'm not leaning to either way, I just want to convince myself by SCRIPTURE (not mere speculation) whether or not the random-bible-verse picking, when done _in context_, is appropriate at any time.

For now, I think I'll just read what others have said on this thread, if by any means that may clear the confusion in my mind.


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## seajayrice

Jack K said:


> The pick-a-verse-at-random thing is at best a lazy approach to the Scriptures. It substitutes real study of the Scriptures, understanding verses in context and applying the whole counsel of God to a situation, and instead gives a supposed quick fix. Are we seeking spiritual guidance? Well, the Spirit has chosen to speak to us through an entire Bible. If we seldom open it except to randomly pluck out a verse or two, we really aren't very interested in what the Spirit has to say, are we?
> 
> That's at best. *At worst it has similarities to pagan magic.* We suppose that if we go through the proper ritual motions (in this case, blindly picking a verse) God will speak to us. That's using the Bible as a crystal ball or ouija board! This is not how the Spirit has chosen to speak. Properly spiritual Bible study does not suspend our intellect but engages it.



 and we now how the scriptures treat such practices. May also indicate a lack of reverence for the word of God.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

After carefully reflecting on all the comments made in this thread, I realized how my arrogance had kept me from seeing the plain truths that had been brought up. If I only had been a careful listener... Forgive me, Brothers and Sisters in Christ (especially Pastor Greco).


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## a mere housewife

Samuel, once again I am grateful you started a thread, as it reminded me of how much I ought to treasure time in God's word, and how much of a priority it should be. 

I hope you don't mind if I raise a related question to Christ's reading and understanding of Scripture and His own ministry from it, and taking that as our example. Is His example for us in believing and rightly understanding and spending time in learning the whole word of God related to His office or work as prophet?


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## J. Dean

Can you get something out of it? Yes

Is it the best way to go about doing it? Absolutely not.

Kinda like using a cake mixer to mix drywall....

I know somebody who did this...


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