# Too many holes in the dike!



## BobVigneault (Aug 17, 2007)

Listening to Al Mohler's radio show from yesterday is giving me a sinking feeling. The anchor program is on Heresy being invited into the 'church' and the opening commentary is on what several false teachers believe are the most dangerous matters in religion.

I'm beginning to feel like there are just too many holes in the dike. How do we correct them all or even reverse the slide? This must be how Elijah felt when he thought he was alone.

I was listening to a promo for a local Christian radio station yesterday and the blurb went something like this: "Wars and rumors of wars, inflation, political scandal, abortion..... we need God."

Yes we need God but not because of all these ever present matters. The Church seems to be imploding. We, the reformed, spend much of our time arguing over the orderliness of church worship and governance. Are we having any effect on stopping the glory of God from disappearing from the church? Someone give me an encouraging word.


----------



## LadyFlynt (Aug 17, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> The Church seems to be imploding. We, the reformed, spend much of our time arguing over the orderliness of church worship and governance. Are we having any effect on stopping the glory of God from disappearing from the church? Someone give me an encouraging word.



I hear ya!


----------



## VictorBravo (Aug 17, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> Someone give me an encouraging word.



"Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom." Lk 12:32 

". . . . and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it." Mt 16:18.

We don't see it--we are hammered by the decline--we are numb from being surrounded by godless madness.

But God's Kingdom comes and his church prevails. May we be kept faithful. "Even so, come Lord Jesus."


----------



## Herald (Aug 17, 2007)

> I'm beginning to feel like there are just too many holes in the dike. How do we correct them all or even reverse the slide? This must be how Elijah felt when he thought he was alone.



Bob - are there too many holes in the dike? No, there aren't _too many_, although there are many. _Too many_ would give the impression the holes (which are actually problems) are so overwhelming that the church (and by extension, God) cannot overcome them. But the reality is that the church is being assailed on all sides and from within. That is a truism that cannot be denied. But we do know these things:

*Matthew 16:18* "...I will build My church; and the gates of Hades shall not overpower it." 

*Romans 8:33-39* 33 Who will bring a charge against God's elect? God is the one who justifies; 34 who is the one who condemns? Christ Jesus is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 Just as it is written, "For Thy sake we are being put to death all day long; We were considered as sheep to be slaughtered." 37 But in all these things we overwhelmingly conquer through Him who loved us. 38 For I am convinced that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. 

*Genesis 9:14-16* 14 "And it shall come about, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud, 15 and I will remember My covenant, which is between Me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and never again shall the water become a flood to destroy all flesh. 16 "When the bow is in the cloud, then I will look upon it, to remember the everlasting covenant between God and every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth." 

_Yahweh honors this covenant today. It is a sign of His continued covenant faithfulness and should bring us much joy._

*Psalm 111:1-10* Praise the LORD! I will give thanks to the LORD with all my heart, In the company of the upright and in the assembly. 2 Great are the works of the LORD; They are studied by all who delight in them. 3 Splendid and majestic is His work; And His righteousness endures forever. 4 He has made His wonders to be remembered; The LORD is gracious and compassionate. 5 He has given food to those who fear Him; He will remember His covenant forever. 6 He has made known to His people the power of His works, In giving them the heritage of the nations. 7 The works of His hands are truth and justice; All His precepts are sure. 8 They are upheld forever and ever; They are performed in truth and uprightness. 9 He has sent redemption to His people; He has ordained His covenant forever; Holy and awesome is His name. 10 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom; A good understanding have all those who do His commandments; His praise endures forever. 

*Revelation 19:7* 7 "Let us rejoice and be glad and give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come and His bride has made herself ready." 

*Matthew 5:14-16* 14 "You are the light of the world. A city set on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 "Nor do men light a lamp, and put it under the peck-measure, but on the lampstand; and it gives light to all who are in the house. 16 "Let your light shine before men in such a way that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father who is in heaven.

And lastly...

*Romans 1:16* 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. 

Be of good cheer dear brother. There is a battle being waged for the souls of men. That battle is brought near and into the assembly of the righteous, His church. But God is faithful and has promised that His church shall not be overcome.


----------



## BobVigneault (Aug 17, 2007)

I was so much happier when I was a dispensational arminian. Then I would just say, "Oh well, this is just a sign the end is near", and then go scan the headlines for the Anti-Christ and earthquakes and find comfort in a nice short story by Max Lucado.


----------



## BobVigneault (Aug 17, 2007)

Bill I certainly know that God's plan cannot be thwarted but I fear this may be a time when He hides his glory in order to purge the fat, lazy, bloated and blind prostitute church. I hear things are better in South Korea.


----------



## VictorBravo (Aug 17, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> I was so much happier when I was a dispensational arminian. Then I would just say, "Oh well, this is just a sign the end is near", and then go scan the headlines for the Anti-Christ and earthquakes and find comfort in a nice short story by Max Lucado.



True enough, but then we'd miss out on the joy of 1 Peter 4!


----------



## BobVigneault (Aug 17, 2007)

victorbravo said:


> True enough, but then we'd miss out on the joy of 1 Peter 4!



But the church isn't suffering Vic. The church is quite comfy. It's truth and doctrine that are disappearing and most Christians don't care. Just give them a forty foot high cucumber at the Christian Booksellers Convention and they are happier than pigs in poop.

I'm starting to feel like Cypher in the Matrix when he wants to get inserted back into the Matrix:

Cypher : You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain..that it is juicy..and delicious.

(he sighs)

Cypher : After nine years, you know what I realize?

Cypher puts the bit of steak into his mouth, and sighs, as he chews it with his eyes closed.

Cypher : Ignorance is bliss.


----------



## Herald (Aug 17, 2007)

Bob - as Americans we tend to be a tad myopic in our view of the church. Our lens is narrow and it is hard to get beyond us. Such is the bane of affluence. Perhaps persecution, trial and testing will awaken the church. But how many of us are willing to pray for that? Indeed, should we even be so brash as to pray for those things to come upon us in order to awaken the church? Are we ready for it?


----------



## Greg (Aug 17, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> It's truth and doctrine that are disappearing and most Christians don't care. Just give them a forty foot high cucumber at the Christian Booksellers Convention and they are happier than pigs in poop.



This is true...sad, but true. Too many in the church are just simply indifferent to what is being taught from the pulpit. Doctrine, afterall, they tell us, is divisive and impractical. As long as no feathers get ruffled, no one is offended or challenged, and everyone is told, "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life", we can all feel good about ourselves and go on with our lives. Bumper sticker theology rules the day, sadly, for so many Christians.



> ...but I fear this may be a time when He hides his glory in order to purge the fat, lazy, bloated and blind prostitute church.



It's possible that this may just be the case. Thank God for His promises though, such as the ones Victor and Bill posted.


----------



## VictorBravo (Aug 17, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> But the church isn't suffering Vic.



Ah, but she is, dear brother. And you are feeling it right now. Just because part of the body is doped up doesn't mean that some parts are not alarmed.

I share your outrage at the numbness of our churches. Of course it easy to invoke Laodecia. But it isn't comfort, really. I think it is anesthesia covering a tremendous amount of pain. 

That Matrix excerpt is right on.

I wrote privately to a brother a while back that I think we have become confused about what it means to be content. It does not mean be comfortable, but instead to be satisfied with the position, skills, and talents God gave us to act act in righteous outrage. We are content with even the horrible situation around us, not because we like it, but because God put us here for his glory.

I hope these are not empty sounding words. There are a lot of holes, but we only have to worry about the particular leak that God has given to our charge, if he has so done.


----------



## CDM (Aug 17, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> Bill I certainly know that God's plan cannot be thwarted but I fear *this may be a time when He hides his glory in order to purge the fat, lazy, bloated and blind prostitute church.* I hear things are better in South Korea.



Indeed, brother. This is exactly what I think is happening now. "Prosperity" and comfort now but the Horizon is very dark and a great storm is coming. See the Minor Prophets & Co.



BaptistInCrisis said:


> Bob - as Americans we tend to be a tad myopic in our view of the church. Our lens is narrow and it is hard to get beyond us. Such is the bane of affluence. Perhaps persecution, trial and testing will awaken the church. But how many of us are willing to pray for that? Indeed, should we even be so brash as to pray for those things to come upon us in order to awaken the church? *Are we ready for it*?



I'm getting ready for it.


----------



## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 17, 2007)

victorbravo said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > But the church isn't suffering Vic.
> ...



Well said, brother Vic!



> Nehemiah 3:23 - After him repaired Benjamin and Hashub over against their house. After him repaired Azariah the son of Maaseiah the son of Ananiah by his house.



They rebuilt the wall of Jerusalem by working on the wall infront of thier own homes. That's what we must do, and if everyone did just that, man, what a wall we could build.


----------



## Jerusalem Blade (Aug 17, 2007)

Bob,

I have heard it said that when we look for the Antichrist only as a person we become blind to the spirit of antichrist and its invasion of the House of God (1 John 2:18 ff.). I do not preclude there may indeed be an individual, but the idea of the spirit seems to explain what we are seeing.

The onslaught is quiet, many being taken unawares. It may be likened to the old proverb about the frog in the slowly-heated pot.

Myself, I like the adage about the light shining brighter as the darkness increases.

What is worrisome is seeing once-stalwart denominations falter.

Jesus said, "...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?" (Luke 18:8)

I don't want to make a Bible-version issue of this, but there is a growing lack of confidence that we have the sure Word of God, at least in the grass roots.

He will keep His people, though the days darken. We have many sure promises.


----------



## Puritan Sailor (Aug 18, 2007)

The church will always have struggles until the Lord returns. We can have the fires of persecution to purify the true Church's membership or we can have the fires of heresy during peacetime to purify the true Church's doctrine. Either way we will always be under attack. Satan knows how to attack us in either condition. And the Lord knows best how to sanctify His people. Let's be content to serve Him no matter what circumstance he places us.


----------



## Barnpreacher (Aug 18, 2007)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Perhaps persecution, trial and testing will awaken the church. But how many of us are willing to pray for that? Indeed, should we even be so brash as to pray for those things to come upon us in order to awaken the church? Are we ready for it?



I believe this is what Pastor Faulk was getting at in this thread - http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php?t=23953. His comments didn't seem to be well taken by many on the board.


----------



## Herald (Aug 18, 2007)

Barnpreacher said:


> BaptistInCrisis said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps persecution, trial and testing will awaken the church. But how many of us are willing to pray for that? Indeed, should we even be so brash as to pray for those things to come upon us in order to awaken the church? Are we ready for it?
> ...



Ryan - how many of us would actually desire persecution? Not many would actively seek to bring persecution upon themselves. Self-willed persecution wouldn't actually be persecution at all. It would be a type of Romanistic self-abasement. Persecution comes from without. Our prayer should be that God would cause His church to remain faithful when persecution comes. The benefits of persecution? They are not being questioned.


----------



## Barnpreacher (Aug 18, 2007)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Ryan - how many of us would actually desire persecution? Not many would actively seek to bring persecution upon themselves. Self-willed persecution wouldn't actually be persecution at all. It would be a type of Romanistic self-abasement. Persecution comes from without. Our prayer should be that God would cause His church to remain faithful when persecution comes. The benefits of persecution? They are not being questioned.



Bill,

I think that is exactly what Pastor Faulk was saying. He was saying, "Praise God for the persecution that causes the church to grow." We don't seek it in sort sort of self-abasement, but we don't shy away from it when it comes.

May I suggest Piper's _Don't Waste Your Life_ for a good description of this kind of mindset for those that are interested.


----------



## turmeric (Aug 18, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> I was so much happier when I was a dispensational arminian. Then I would just say, "Oh well, this is just a sign the end is near", and then go scan the headlines for the Anti-Christ and earthquakes and find comfort in a nice short story by Max Lucado.



Amillennialists can do this too - except of course for the Max Lucado thing and scanning for the anti-Christ.


----------



## Ivan (Aug 18, 2007)

Barnpreacher said:


> BaptistInCrisis said:
> 
> 
> > May I suggest Piper's _Don't Waste Your Life_ for a good description of this kind of mindset for those that are interested.
> ...


----------

