# Well-Meant Offer: Repent and Believe for what purpose?



## fralo4truth (Jan 26, 2015)

Forgive me for starting yet another thread on the Well-Meant Offer but I do have a question about it to which I personally have not seen an answer. First, let me say how much I appreciate Rev. Winzer's review of Murray's work. This has helped me tremendously.

Thank you, Rev. Winzer.

Okay, here's the question I keep asking myself. If it be true that the commands to the reprobate are only to emphasize what _ought _to be done and that God only desires that they be _obligated _to repent and believe, then they are to do this _for what purpose_?

If there is no salvation available to them per God's decree and no provision by Christ, then what can we say in answer to this question? One could respond with the broad answer that the gospel is for
their hardening but that doesn't deal with the very specific question of the particular command to repent and believe, does it? It sounds strange for me to say that the reprobate is to repent and believe in order to be hardened.

If there is a purpose for which they are to repent and believe, does this not presuppose a salvation available to them?

Thanks friends for any help you could provide, and please correct me if I am in error on any point.


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## MW (Jan 26, 2015)

fralo4truth said:


> Okay, here's the question I keep asking myself. If it be true that the commands to the reprobate are only to emphasize what _ought _to be done and that God only desires that they be _obligated _to repent and believe, then they are to do this _for what purpose_?



It is encouraging to hear the review was helpful.

The Gospel is not preached and salvation is not offered to men as "reprobate;" it is offered to them as sinners indefinitely. Whosoever believeth shall be saved. Every sinner who hears the gospel has the warrant to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. But faith is set forth as the condition to interest the sinner in the Saviour. Without faith there is no salvation. So in effect the desire of God is for the salvation of sinners who believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. Any attempt to make the desire absolute only serves to make the offer absolute and to remove its conditionality.


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## aadebayo (Jan 27, 2015)

Thanks Rev Matthew for your answer. This was of great help to me.


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## fralo4truth (Jan 27, 2015)

MW said:


> fralo4truth said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, here's the question I keep asking myself. If it be true that the commands to the reprobate are only to emphasize what _ought _to be done and that God only desires that they be _obligated _to repent and believe, then they are to do this _for what purpose_?
> ...



Thank you very much. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. In the preceptive will of God it's appropriate to speak of God desiring one's salvation only after that individual has believed the gospel message? To speak of God desiring the salvation of one simply because he is unregenerate changes the gospel message from 'whosoever believeth' to just 'whosoever'.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 27, 2015)

fralo4truth said:


> If there is a purpose for which they are to repent and believe, does this not presuppose a salvation available to them?



This question, I believe, highlights what it is with which you are struggling. All are called to believe and repent. Everyone who hears this call, because of the gospel invitation and command ("Come unto me all ye who labor and are heavy laden"), has a warrant to believe. So, yes, we presuppose a salvation that is available to all of our hearers because we don't suppose that any particular persons are reprobate. I never suppose such when pastorally dealing with someone. What grounds could I possibly have for doing so? We call them all, without exception and without distinction, to "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved." To do otherwise may seem rational, but it is rationalism (hyper-Calvinism, not Calvinism) and is distinctly not biblical. 

We must always remember what WCF 3.8 says and not introduce speculativeness into the gospel call. The gospel call is free and it is well-meant. I happen to differ with my dear brother Matthew about how this is precisely to be understood (in other words, I continue to resonate with Murray's argument), but we can all agree, I hope, with this sentiment that he expressed (even if I demur on his last sentence): "Whosoever believeth shall be saved. Every sinner who hears the gospel has the warrant to believe in the Lord Jesus Christ for salvation. But faith is set forth as the condition to interest the sinner in the Saviour. Without faith there is no salvation."


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## RTaron (Jan 27, 2015)

MW said:


> to interest the sinner in the Saviour


Rev. Winzer, could you please explain what this phrase means. I have an interest in the subject and I am interested to know what you mean.


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## RTaron (Jan 27, 2015)

How would we say this in other words? " requiring faith as the condition to _stake our hope in him_" stake a claim of his person and benefits? we don't use the word interest quite like this anymore do we?


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jan 27, 2015)

"The word _interest _here means making sure that they will Share in the benefits provided by the Mediator."


Johannes Geerhardus Vos. _Westminster Larger Catechism: A Commentary_


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## MW (Jan 27, 2015)

RTaron said:


> stake a claim of his person and benefits?



"To stake a personal claim in" would be a very close and useful modern equivalent. I guess I use "interest" in a discussion which seeks to be theologically precise because the term will admit of an objective meaning in line with traditional British theology.


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## MW (Jan 27, 2015)

fralo4truth said:


> In the preceptive will of God it's appropriate to speak of God desiring one's salvation only after that individual has believed the gospel message?



The word "after" conveys something amiss. The offer clearly comes before faith. But the offer is indefinite. It is addressed to sinners as sinners, not to sinners as elect or reprobate. One is not required to discover his election before he is warranted to believe. Election itself can only be ascertained after one believes, 1 Thess. 1:4-5. The warrant to believe is in the offer of salvation. Likewise the offer does not come to those who already believe. It comes with the call to believe, and the offer itself only promises to give salvation where faith in Jesus Christ is exercised.

When it is said that this offer is indefinite, it means it is made to a class of persons, that is, to sinners. At this point we can say that God desires the salvation of sinners without discriminating between this and that particular sinner. It is the attempt to particularise the gospel offer which has led to confusion.

The terms "elect" and "reprobate" would be irrelevant to the discussion if some people did not try to particularise the gospel offer and make it convey a desire in God for the salvation of each and every person. It is made clear to us in explicit terms that God makes offer of salvation to men indefinitely and reserves the right to give the offered salvation to a people of His own choice. "Many are called but few are chosen." At this point we are constrained by special revelation to accept that there is a difference between the offer of salvation and the One who makes the offer of salvation. What the offer seeks is the salvation of the many who are called, but the design of the One who makes the offer is the salvation only of those few whom He has chosen.



fralo4truth said:


> To speak of God desiring the salvation of one simply because he is unregenerate changes the gospel message from 'whosoever believeth' to just 'whosoever'.



This introduces another term which is somewhat irrelevant. The idea of "regeneration" has no bearing on the call of the gospel. The call is made irrespective of the hearer's ability to comply with it. "Ye must be born again" is not the call of the gospel. It is a fact that will come to bear on the reception or rejection of the call, but it has no bearing on what is involved in the call of the gospel. The gospel calls the sinner to believe, and this establishes a duty and a warrant to believe. God requires faith. There can be no salvation without the Saviour, and there can be no personal possession of salvation without personal possession of the Saviour; and this personal possession of the Saviour is by faith alone.

So having said that it is safe to say that God desires the salvation of sinners indefinitely, we may now add the further qualification that God desires the salvation of sinners who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. The "desire" of God (granting the anthropomorphism in its Scriptural limitations) must be restricted to the terms of the offer. Any attempt to extend the "desire" of God beyond the indefinite terms of the offer must be regarded as a form of hyper-Calvinism because it requires men to look into the secret counsel of God in order to ascertain one's warrant to believe.


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## timmopussycat (Jan 28, 2015)

MW thank you for that very clear and cogent explanation.


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