# Thm/PhD in Practical Theology?



## suber03 (Mar 17, 2016)

Greetings.

I have a twofold question that I was hoping someone could help me out with. First off, I am considering doing further academic work beyond my M.Div. I really have a heart for Practical Theology and would love to get a PhD in a field that would allow me to teach at the seminary level after I spend several years serving in the church. My first question is can you recommend any schools that have good programs for this type of study? So far while asking around, I have been told to look into SBTS as well as Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Have any of you here done PhD work at these schools or others in Practical Theology that could give some advice.

My second question is that I've been told that it would be very helpful to get a ThM first before going on to do a PhD. I like this idea since I don't have a perfect GPA but know I am capable of doctoral level work. Plus it would be a way to do a lot of research and writing before getting into a program. Are there any good schools that have ThM programs in Practical Theology or a closely related field? I would appreciate any advice you could give.


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## mjmacvey (Mar 18, 2016)

The PhD is an academic research degree that is designed to equip individuals for original research, writing, and teaching in a specific academic discipline (Biblical Studies, Theological Studies, Church History, etc.). Though you may find PHD programs that offer an emphasis in Practical Theology, this is not commonly considered an academic discipline. Typically, those interested in a doctorate in practical theology will pursue a DMin (Doctor of Ministry), which is a professional degree that involves research into issues related to the nature and purposes of ministry, with the goal of improving practical applications rather than advancing a particular area of scholarship. 

We could have a lengthy discussion about the differences (in quality, perception, job opportunities, etc.) between PhDs and DMins, but it is safe to say that a PhD is generally more well respected in the academic community, but also more time consuming and expensive. If your objective is to teach practical theology at a christian college or seminary, a DMin may be sufficient at some institutions, but manyschools (WSC is one) would require an academic research degree (PhD) for tenure track positions. If your interests are more related to practical theology, but you really want a PhD rather than a DMin, you might look to a Systematic Theology program and direct your research toward some area of Ecclesiology, or perhaps a degree in New Testament through which you could explore specific passages related to the pastoral epistles, or an Historical Theology degree focused on the history of preaching or other church practice. 

The ThM (Master of Theology), like the PhD is an academic research degree (typically 1 year, or longer in a modular format) designed to build on an MDiv. Whether or not you need to pursue a ThM, prior to a PhD will depend on the quality of your previous education (does your MDivinclude Biblical languages? Have you learned, or do you have the ability to learn, any modern theological languages?) and the types of programs you are looking at. Most universities, for example, wouldn't necessarily care if you have a ThM, but some seminary PhD programs might expect it. The ThM would not be necessary as preparation for a DMin. 

I am not in a position to make recommendations or comment specifically on SBTS or MBTS, but I will say the SBC schools tend to turn out a lot of PHD & DMin graduates, so one of these degrees wouldn't necessarily set you apart in the academic marketplace as much as another (more competitive/distinctive) degree program would.


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## Romans922 (Mar 18, 2016)

If you are going to do anything on Practical Theology further, in my opinion you will best be served to go to the UK. So places like Edinburgh (I've had a number of friends go there) and there are a number more.


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## suber03 (Mar 18, 2016)

Thank you for this reply , Mark. This is what I have been realizing as well. The good thing is that I have a couple of years before I try to get more schooling so I have time to look into the issues that you have described. The PhD vs DMin debate is one that I frequently hear between my classmates. I talked to my campus's practical theology professor and he has a DMin. He told me the most important thing in being a Practical Theology professor is lots of experience in practical theology.


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## suber03 (Mar 18, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> If you are going to do anything on Practical Theology further, in my opinion you will best be served to go to the UK. So places like Edinburgh (I've had a number of friends go there) and there are a number more.



Thanks, Andrew. I will definitely look into this. Also, I received your friend request and look forward to meeting you this summer/fall pending everything going according to plan.


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## iainduguid (Mar 19, 2016)

suber03 said:


> Greetings.
> 
> I have a twofold question that I was hoping someone could help me out with. First off, I am considering doing further academic work beyond my M.Div. I really have a heart for Practical Theology and would love to get a PhD in a field that would allow me to teach at the seminary level after I spend several years serving in the church. My first question is can you recommend any schools that have good programs for this type of study? So far while asking around, I have been told to look into SBTS as well as Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. Have any of you here done PhD work at these schools or others in Practical Theology that could give some advice.
> 
> My second question is that I've been told that it would be very helpful to get a ThM first before going on to do a PhD. I like this idea since I don't have a perfect GPA but know I am capable of doctoral level work. Plus it would be a way to do a lot of research and writing before getting into a program. Are there any good schools that have ThM programs in Practical Theology or a closely related field? I would appreciate any advice you could give.



Aaron,
A couple of comments. First, with regard to a Ph.D. specifically in Practical Theology, you might want to check out PRTS' proposed program, which has as one possible emphasis Homiletics. It isn't yet ATS accredited, but I expect that it will be soon. If you want to teach at a Presbyterian or reformed seminary, PRTS would be better than a Baptist school.

Second, I agree with Mark Macvey that a Ph.D. in a different field with a thesis oriented towards practical theology would give you more options. It's a bit like the choice between studying Marine Engineering vs Mechanical Engineering. Most marine engineering jobs would hire someone with a Mech E background but not necessarily vice versa. So a history Ph.D. in the history of Preaching would qualify you for church history as well as PT jobs.

Third, and most important, in the present market DOING A Ph.D. IS NOT A CAREER STEP (Did I communicate that loudly enough?). There are very few jobs at Reformed seminaries (in this country), so you have to be lucky as well as good to land one. You will be competing against people with Ph.D.'s from prestigious universities around the world and, generally, teaching experience as well. That means a) if you do a Ph.D. it is because you love the subject and can't believe that you actually get to spend 4-5 years immersed in your topic; b) you MUST have funding for your living expenses as well as tuition (unless you are independently wealthy). Do NOT accumulate debt to acquire a Ph.D.. In any event, a large church would pay you more than a seminary. Many pastors moving to teach at a seminary take a pay cut.

Fourth, if as you say, your GPA is not the best you should definitely consider a Th.M. It will enable you to see if you really want to spend the next few years of your life in your topic, as well as discovering whether you are really the top student in your Th.M. cohort and giving you a better shot of acquiring a funded spot in a top notch program. One possibility you might want to look at is Westminster's modular ThM program. That way you could be in a church, supporting your family and building ministry experience while getting a Th.M. and working out whether a Ph.D. is the way to go.


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## suber03 (Mar 19, 2016)

iainduguid said:


> suber03 said:
> 
> 
> > Greetings.
> ...



Pastor Duguid, thank you for your honest reply. I think that your third point is what I am struggling most with. I love pastoral ministry and want to spend the rest of my life studying and learning. I will definitely look at PRTS as well as Westminster. This also greatly helps with my question about a Th.M.


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## suber03 (Mar 26, 2016)

mjmacvey said:


> The PhD is an academic research degree that is designed to equip individuals for original research, writing, and teaching in a specific academic discipline (Biblical Studies, Theological Studies, Church History, etc.). Though you may find PHD programs that offer an emphasis in Practical Theology, this is not commonly considered an academic discipline. Typically, those interested in a doctorate in practical theology will pursue a DMin (Doctor of Ministry), which is a professional degree that involves research into issues related to the nature and purposes of ministry, with the goal of improving practical applications rather than advancing a particular area of scholarship.
> 
> We could have a lengthy discussion about the differences (in quality, perception, job opportunities, etc.) between PhDs and DMins, but it is safe to say that a PhD is generally more well respected in the academic community, but also more time consuming and expensive. If your objective is to teach practical theology at a christian college or seminary, a DMin may be sufficient at some institutions, but manyschools (WSC is one) would require an academic research degree (PhD) for tenure track positions. If your interests are more related to practical theology, but you really want a PhD rather than a DMin, you might look to a Systematic Theology program and direct your research toward some area of Ecclesiology, or perhaps a degree in New Testament through which you could explore specific passages related to the pastoral epistles, or an Historical Theology degree focused on the history of preaching or other church practice.
> 
> ...



Mark, I would love to hear your thoughts on a D.Min. They seem to get mixed reviews around here. It seems like with most degrees, it depends on where you get it. I guess I should have mentioned in the question that I am focused mostly on pastoral ministry. While at Seminary I have been so influenced by the Practical Theology department, that I would love to pass that on to other students down the road after spending some time in pastoral ministry.


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## reaganmarsh (Mar 26, 2016)

Hi Aaron, 

You may wish to consider the PRTS modular ThM, in which your major may be Biblical Studies, Systematic Theology, or Reformation & Post-Reformation Theology. As stated above, your research/thesis could be ecclesiastical in nature and could serve you well as a possible testing grounds for future work. 

SBTS also offers the ThM and PhD in Preaching, Biblical Counseling, Biblical Spirituality, etc., as well as DMin programs in a number of similar majors (the Applied Theology track looks fascinating). 

All the best in your studies as you seek to serve the living Christ! 

Grace to you.


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## suber03 (Mar 26, 2016)

reaganmarsh said:


> Hi Aaron,
> 
> You may wish to consider the PRTS modular ThM, in which your major may be Biblical Studies, Systematic Theology, or Reformation & Post-Reformation Theology. As stated above, your research/thesis could be ecclesiastical in nature and could serve you well as a possible testing grounds for future work.
> 
> ...



Thank you Rev. Reagan for your post. I am very interested in SBTS's program. The only reservation I have about it and Midwestern Baptist is the steeper cost for non-baptist. I actually agree with why they do it, but it does make it hard to consider them. That being said, I am almost completely convinced that whatever I decide to do, I will pursue a ThM first so I will have some time before I have to decide which way to go.


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## jwithnell (Mar 27, 2016)

Our pastor completed his PhD in practical theology at Gordon Conwell, Charlotte, with his thesis on The Imago Dei and the neurogically impaired. He was accepted into a program at WTS Philly as well where he received his MDiv. I'd be glad to introduce y'all if you want to PM me.


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## ZackF (Mar 27, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> If you are going to do anything on Practical Theology further, in my opinion you will best be served to go to the UK.



This surprises me.


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## suber03 (Mar 28, 2016)

ZackF said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > If you are going to do anything on Practical Theology further, in my opinion you will best be served to go to the UK.
> ...



I'm surprised by this as well. I do like the European model of Phd work, but I don't necessarily like the European price. My wife says she would love to go spend some time abroad, though.


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