# Some questions of 'Davidic Dancing' [what!?!?] and Psalm 149 and 150



## BrettLemke (Jan 21, 2013)

Hello brothers and sisters,

[EDIT] I realize I really have two questions in this post so please note some restructuring!

1. I need some help regarding some things that were said in our small group dinner conversation last night regarding proper biblical worship. A story was related of a family of "TR's," "crazy, whackjob, nutty, pharisaical folks" that would always complain about worship and the regulative principle. Apparently, the final straw for this family was at an evening Lord's Day service an interpretive dance was offered to which this family said enough is enough and left the church. The response of the gathered was basically good riddance to those weirdos. First I am grieved that this even happened since these brothers and sisters were basically standing in judgment on other brothers and sisters, second I felt personally ostracized since I do hold to the RPW and the pattern of worship taught in Scripture and summarized in the WCF and have made no secret of my adherence to it. [EDIT]Can someone please offer some advice regarding approaching my brothers and sisters in regards to slandering other brothers and sisters with whom there is disagreement? I think Romans 14 has much wisdom for me, other insight is appreciated!


2. I am not EP at this point, though I lean very close to it, and some of these things, while not said in charity and love, have caused me to go back and make sure the ground I stand on is solid. So this of course got me to thinking, and in the words of LaFou is a "dangerous pastime" of mine.

The objections that were made:

1. Davidic Dancing

in 2 Samuel 6 David dances while bringing the Ark into Jerusalem. Since David danced and offered sacrifices we therefore can too! Psalm 149 comes to mind here, how best should we interpret the call to dance unto the praise of the Lord? My first intuition is to say that this Psalm does not directly speak to public worship, but I am unsure. Please help me here!

2. Sing a New Song in Psalm 149

this one I'm having a hard time with, the Hebrew intimates a song that has never been heard before, or a 'fresh' song. It seems to lead in the direction of uninspired songs, at least those opposing EP and a more rigorous defense of the RPW will stand on this and Psalm 150. Please help me here.

3. Psalm 150 and instruments

I will also reference Psalm 90 here as well as I am struggling to understand this one too. If the superscript of Ps. 90 is inspired, 'a song for the Sabbath' it seems to intimate that instruments in worship was not explicitly tied to the ceremonial system. Since we seem to have a positive command to praise and worship with instruments, how best do we reason for the exclusion of instruments in worship? Again, some exegetical help here! I know in Hebrews the writer speaks of worshipping with the 'fruit of the lips' and Paul says to [my formulation] 'sing to the Lord with melody as though plucking the strings of your heart' [Eph 5:19] (trying to relate _psallo_ to the command). I also understand David's restructuring worship for the temple and the example of Hezekiah in 1 Chron. 29? as giving the exegetical basis for locking up instruments under the ceremonial system, though I am not fully convinced of this yet. Can someone please correct and further teach me how to look at these texts?

[EDIT] Please help me with some exegetical insight into these passages to further help sharpen and refine my understanding of RPW and EP respectively. 

All in all, before I mount a defense of the RPW and what the Lord has commended to us as proper worship in his Word, I want to have the Lord's commands firmly in my mind. I would appreciate any help, feedback and guidance on this issue that you may have. As it is, I am already too 'TR' for some of this group of well-meaning brothers and sisters. But I do not believe that they argue on the basis of Scripture, but on tradition, asceticism, beauty and personal taste which is no-standard in judging worship. [Col 2]

grace and peace,
Brett


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## Edward (Jan 21, 2013)

Not the question you asked, but I would urge you to try to track down the folks that left and tell them about the church in Wylie that Mr. Hicks attends, if they don't know of it.

-------

Looks like you're fairly new here, so here's the link:

Christ Covenant Reformed Presbyterian Church: Wylie, Tx

It's in Wylie, which isn't that far if you go cross country from Plano.


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## BrettLemke (Jan 21, 2013)

I will, but this was apparently a number of years ago long before we joined the church. Maybe the church will still have contact information. Thanks.


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## Wayne (Jan 21, 2013)

But back to your questions, while others will give responses, you can also find a long list of prior discussions, many of them very substantive, simply by using the search box.


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## Peairtach (Jan 21, 2013)

The Apostle Paul and other Apostles don't mention, dancing, musical instruments or hymns, so these elements should either be completely excluded from worship, or take up a secondary place in informal and irregular worship e.g. Christian concerts.

E.g. Dr John "Rabbi" Duncan danced on the Brig o' Dee when he got assurance, but didn't bring dancing into the regular worship of God's house.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Duncan_(theologian)


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## Marrow Man (Jan 21, 2013)

I will pretty much guarantee that none of the pro-dancers will also defend David's attire (or lack thereof) in doing so.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jan 21, 2013)

Marrow Man said:


> I will pretty much guarantee that none of the pro-dancers will also defend David's attire (or lack thereof) in doing so.



Don't give them any ideas


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## Marrow Man (Jan 21, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > I will pretty much guarantee that none of the pro-dancers will also defend David's attire (or lack thereof) in doing so.
> ...



Good point


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## Cymro (Jan 21, 2013)

Hi


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## Cymro (Jan 21, 2013)

Sorry pressed wrong button


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## Edward (Jan 21, 2013)

BrettLemke said:


> this was apparently a number of years ago long before we joined the church.



Sorry, I thought it was something recent. Based on the time that's past, might be best to let that go, then.


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## Miss Marple (Jan 21, 2013)

In re your question #1, David and others did many things that we don't do. He was a prophet, priest, and king. We are not.

He for example feigned madness, hid in the hills, cut the cloth of a king's coat, married many wives, committed adultery, and murder, wrote inspired Scripture, killed a lot of people, took showbread. . . 

the phrase I have heard is DEscriptive vs. PROscriptive. Just because something is described as happening doesn't necessarily mean we are to do it.

We can't look at any patriarch's life and say aha, we must do all they did. Worship is obviously very different (no temple, no animal sacrifice, no priesthood. . .). Laws are different (diet, clothing, beards, etc. . . ) What we are to emulate is their faith and faithfulness, and to see God's extreme mercy in dealing with them.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 21, 2013)

I asked a similar question a few years ago. There were some things brought out in that discussion that helped me. To be honest I had never been introduced to dancing in a worship service till then. It was the reason I ended up returning back to my roots in the RPCNA. 

http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/dance-worship-45407/


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## Jack K (Jan 21, 2013)

The passage in 2 Samuel seems to approve of David's dancing and even his removal of his royal robes. Rather than contend David was wrong, it's probably better for us simply to point out that where the Bible mentions dancing before the Lord it seems to be associated with spontaneous praise (David, Miriam, and perhaps also the context of psalms 149 and 150) rather than with organized worship. People are happy with what God has done and their enthusiasm shows in their whole being. This is perfectly appropriate and hardly different from, say, wearing a smile when you sing. It doesn't mean we ought to supplement—or supplant—the reading of the Word, prayer, preaching, etc. with liturgical interpretive dance. Nothing in Scripture suggests this.

As for the folks who think the people who left the church were nutty... you can't know. Some people, even when taking right positions, _are_ kinda nutty. Just make sure that when _you_ engage your church on these issues you do it kindly, patiently, humbly and in the most non-nutty way possible.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 21, 2013)

I confess that I've had a hard time liking this passage ever since I watched Kevin Bacon's character abuse it to justify a drunken, brawling revelry called a "school dance" back in Footloose.

But here are some quick comments:

1. There were great differences between what transpired in OT worship and NT worship.
2. There are several instances of dancing in the OT, and they usually appear as spontaneous acts of praise.
3. The bringing of the ark Jerusalem was not a normal sabbath day worship service, it was a "special event" and as such "normal" rules regarding worship services don't really apply.
4. The impression I get from the text is not that David stripped down to his whitey-tighteys, but that he took off his outer robes so that he could dance "with all his might" and not be encumbered by his royal robes.


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## BrettLemke (Jan 22, 2013)

thank you all for your responses!


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## Jack K (Jan 22, 2013)

SolaScriptura said:


> 4. The impression I get from the text is not that David stripped down to his whitey-tighteys, but that he took off his outer robes so that he could dance "with all his might" and not be encumbered by his royal robes.



Or did he take off the robes in order to put away any sign of self-importance while worshipping the Lord, which the interaction with Michal hints at? I think it could be either, or quite likely both.

I love discussing such things... even if it's a bit of a rabbit trail from the main topic.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 22, 2013)

Jack K said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > 4. The impression I get from the text is not that David stripped down to his whitey-tighteys, but that he took off his outer robes so that he could dance "with all his might" and not be encumbered by his royal robes.
> ...



Could have been both. Regardless, Michal thought that the king's behavior was beneath the dignity of the office.


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