# John Fesko's Book on Baptism



## Marrow Man (Sep 20, 2010)

I was directed to this work by Dr. John Fesko, published by Reformation Heritage: Word, Water, and Spirit: A Reformed Perspective on Baptism. He takes the approach of looking at the doctrine of baptism from the perspectives of historical theology, biblical theology, and systematic theology. It is a bit pricey ($28, but it is hardcover and nearly 500 pages), and it appears the book will not be available until October. I'm planning on placing an order today or tomorrow. You can read the introduction online here.

HT: louis_jp


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## Whitefield (Sep 20, 2010)

I have to admit I'm a bit surprised to see an endorsement from William Willimon.


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## Marrow Man (Sep 20, 2010)

Elaborate, Lance. Is it because he's not Reformed?

The Donald McKim recommendation (even though he would technically "Reformed") also raised an eyebrow with me.


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## Whitefield (Sep 20, 2010)

Marrow Man said:


> Elaborate, Lance. Is it because he's not Reformed?


 
Precisely, I didn't even know he read books like this.


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## toddpedlar (Sep 21, 2010)

We'll be having Dr. Fesko on  Covenant Radio sometime in early November to talk with him about this book.


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## eqdj (Sep 21, 2010)

I pre-ordered Dr. Fesko's book after listening to his "Baptism as New Creation" and "1 Peter 3:21-22: The Flood and Baptism". 
After reading Mark Vander Hart's "The Exodus as Sacrament: The Cloud, The Sea, and Moses Revisited (1 Cor. 10:1-13)" it appears that both men build on Kline's "Images of the Spirt" (which I don't have ... yet!)

Looking forward to the interview on Covenant Radio!


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## Marrow Man (Sep 21, 2010)

Whitefield said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > Elaborate, Lance. Is it because he's not Reformed?
> ...


 
He's actually been a guest on the White Horse Inn at least once. He agrees with Horton's critique of modern evangelicalism, so there's some common ground there I suppose.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 21, 2010)

Donald McKim is a retired Professor who taught at both Memphis Theological Seminary and Dubuque Theological Seminary. He wrote the atrocious book with Jack Rogers denying that inerrancy was a Biblical or Reformed idea and that the Old Princeton school made it up. I would not want that man within 100 feet from a book I wrote.


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 21, 2010)

Whitefield said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > Elaborate, Lance. Is it because he's not Reformed?
> ...


 
Willimon is a frequent contributor to the WHI. He's certainly not your typical Methodist.


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## Marrow Man (Sep 21, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Donald McKim is a retired Professor who taught at both Memphis Theological Seminary and Dubuque Theological Seminary. He wrote the atrocious book with Jack Rogers denying that inerrancy was a Biblical or Reformed idea and that the Old Princeton school made it up. I would not want that man within 100 feet from a book I wrote.


 
Rogers and McKim were following in the footsteps of the 19th century heretic (tried on that charge by a Presbyterian court) Charles Augustus Briggs. Briggs -- and Rogers/McKim after him -- attempted to prove that he was solidly in line with the Reformers and Westminster divines on the doctrine of Scripture, an effort that has been described as "raping history" (one of my favorite all time quips).


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## greenbaggins (Sep 21, 2010)

Book puffs may or may not be that helpful. Fesko gave me the entire manuscript to critique about 1 1/2 years ago. In fact, you need to read the preface carefully searching for names.  The book is one of the very best on baptism I have ever read. So, don't be edgy about Willimon and McKim. The book is THOROUGHLY Reformed, and will be worth every penny.


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## Marrow Man (Sep 21, 2010)

Yes, but Lane, we knew you were Reformed.


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## Whitefield (Sep 21, 2010)

greenbaggins said:


> Book puffs may or may not be that helpful. Fesko gave me the entire manuscript to critique about 1 1/2 years ago. In fact, you need to read the preface carefully searching for names.  The book is one of the very best on baptism I have ever read. So, don't be edgy about Willimon and McKim. The book is THOROUGHLY Reformed, and will be worth every penny.


 
I didn't mention Willimon to detract from the value of the book. On the contrary, I was simply surprised that Willimon read the book.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 21, 2010)

greenbaggins said:


> Book puffs may or may not be that helpful. Fesko gave me the entire manuscript to critique about 1 1/2 years ago. In fact, you need to read the preface carefully searching for names.  The book is one of the very best on baptism I have ever read. So, don't be edgy about Willimon and McKim. The book is THOROUGHLY Reformed, and will be worth every penny.


 
Donald McKim is frankly a dangerous theologian. Having grown up in the PC(USA) he wrote and oversaw many of our Sunday School lesson books and has been a driving force in the redefinition of Biblical faith, along with Jack Rogers and Mark Achtemeier (his colleague at Dubuque) in the PC(USA). 

You can read a bit of his book defining "Presbyterian Theology" here.


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## greenbaggins (Sep 21, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> > Book puffs may or may not be that helpful. Fesko gave me the entire manuscript to critique about 1 1/2 years ago. In fact, you need to read the preface carefully searching for names.  The book is one of the very best on baptism I have ever read. So, don't be edgy about Willimon and McKim. The book is THOROUGHLY Reformed, and will be worth every penny.
> ...



Ben, I know very well that McKim has problems. All I meant was that their puffs on the back of the book should not give cause for alarm.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 21, 2010)

greenbaggins said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > greenbaggins said:
> ...


 
Given this fact why was his "puff" sought for and/or accepted by the Publishers? 

Can you imagine Warfield seeking a "puff" from Briggs for his book on the Inspiration and Authority of the Bible?


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## dannyhyde (Sep 21, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Given this fact why was his "puff" sought for and/or accepted by the Publishers?



Benjamin,

Puff pieces are meant to draw from a broad spectrum. After all, publishers need to sell books or else they won't be able to publish. In the context of academic works, a puff is meant to show that while a book such as this is thoroughly Reformed (I read the mss, a la, Lane, before Dr. Fesko arrived at WSC) it is also a fine piece of scholarship that interacts respectfully with a vast amount of literature.


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## greenbaggins (Sep 21, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> > Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> ...



There are two reasons why a puff like that might be sought for. Firstly, to appeal to a broader audience. Secondly, to show that even someone hostile to one's position can still respect the work done (this often happens with books that take a particular polemical position).


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 21, 2010)

dannyhyde said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Given this fact why was his "puff" sought for and/or accepted by the Publishers?
> ...


 
I am not sure where the idea was received that I thought Dr. Fesko's thesis/work was poor _because_ of McKim's "puff". I was merely noting that when I am thinking whether or not to purchase a book looking at the "puff" pieces on the back does inform my purchasing of said book. Besides anyone who is going to buy a book based on McKim's suggestion has some serious problems theologically that are not going to find a safe place in a book written from a confessionally-Reformed perspective. I am merely questioning the wisdom of having a "puff" from a guy that is heterodox on issues that confessionally-Reformed folk hold as primary.

As an aside there also seems to be a sort of knee-jerk reaction pro/con towards any words of critique shown towards those affiliated with WSC.

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greenbaggins said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > greenbaggins said:
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If the first part is the primary motivation the person who thinks so has exceedingly overrated the amount of books that are going to be bought by a "broader audience". I think some in the confessionally-Reformed world do not really understand how "kooky" the mainline Presbyterian world thinks they are, even by the "evangelical" side of that audience.


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## dannyhyde (Sep 21, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> I am merely questioning the wisdom of having a "puff" from a guy that is heterodox on issues that confessionally-Reformed folk hold as primary.



Hi Benjamin,

I'm not a knee-jerk kind of guy. That's not so obvious because we've never spent time together. I hope my writing evidences that. After all, I did write a book called _Welcome_ to a Reformed Church, not, What Are You Doing at a Reformed Church. Anyways, it's not my intention to defend JV Fesko or WSC, only to give a sense of what a puff piece is since I read your post as asking that question. I'd suggest if you want to know why this book was puffed by a particular author that you call Dr. Beeke, who is President of RHB and who also puffed the book alongside of McKim.


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