# 1689 LBC 3:5, God's Decree in Election



## Herald (Oct 23, 2008)

Reading Geisler recently, this is where he really hammers Calvinists. If God chooses, than why preach? In response, "We preach because that is what God has ordained as the means by which the sinner is chosen." 



> _Before the world was made, God’s eternal, immutable purpose, which originated in the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, moved Him to choose (or to elect), in Christ, certain mankind to everlasting glory. Out of His mere free grace and love He predestined these chosen ones to life, although there was nothing in them to cause Him to choose them.
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> “Before the world was made” euphemistically describes eternity past. Eternity past is a time without time. We can’t say, “five years” before the earth or universe was made because the reality of that existence was just God, in perfect fellowship and harmony with Himself. The authors of the confession qualify God’s purposes as “eternal.” We have learned that God’s will of decree also existed in eternity past. It’s important to note that God does not see a human action and then, suddenly, will a decree in response to it. God knew His decree and all the actions of men that would take place along the way. Nothing has taken or will take God by surprise. We see that God’s purpose is “immutable.” As we learned in our last study immutable means “unchanging.” God’s purpose (decree) cannot be changed because there is no need to change it. Why? Because it “originated in the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will.” Remember the following passages?
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## KMK (Oct 23, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> Reading Geisler recently, this is where he really hammers Calvinists. If God chooses, than why preach? In response, "We preach because that is what God has ordained as the means by which the sinner is chosen."
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I do not understand why men like Geisler buy into this argument. If there is no election, then there is no irresistibility of the Spirit. Therefore, why do _you_ preach, Dr. Geisler? What good can it do? (Unless you deny the depravity of man, I guess)


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## Herald (Oct 23, 2008)

Ken, Dr. Geisler believes God chooses, but according to the foreknowledge view, not the Calvinist view.


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## JM (Oct 23, 2008)

WHY BOTHER VOTING? The Bible says that the powers that be are ordained of God (Romans 13:1) God says, By Me, king's reign and princes decree justice (Proverbs 8:15) 

WHY BOTHER PRAYING? God knows what we have need of before we ask (Matthew 6:8) He declares in the most definite of language, And it shall come to pass, that before they call, I will answer; and while they are yet speaking, I will hear. (Isaiah 65:24) 

WHY BOTHER SOWING? God says that the harvest will not cease (Genesis 8:22) 

WHY BOTHER STAYING SAFE AND HEALTHY? The day of your death is appointed of God (Hebrews 9:27) You will not die one split second before your God ordained time. A thousand shall fall at thy side, and ten thousand at thy right hand; but it shall not come nigh thee. (Psalm 91:7) 

WHY BOTHER EVANGELISING? Because it pleases God by the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe (1 Corinthians 1:21) That these believing souls have been ordained to such saving faith is undoubtedly true ( Ephesians 1:4) That they will infallibly come is also true (John 7:37a - the bit many folk leave out) but they will come through the means of our evangelism, therefore we do not quit evangelising and seeking by all means to save some, just as we do not quit voting etc., just because the result is ordained of God.​
whybother


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## KMK (Oct 23, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> Ken, Dr. Geisler believes God chooses, but according to the foreknowledge view, not the Calvinist view.



So he believes that God's foreknowledge causes His election? Is God's foreknowledge mutable? If not, then why preach? God already knows who shall believe.


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## Pilgrim (Oct 23, 2008)

KMK said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
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> > Ken, Dr. Geisler believes God chooses, but according to the foreknowledge view, not the Calvinist view.
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These kinds of dilemmas are evidently why some Arminians have embraced Open Theism.


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