# Dying for attention



## Reformingstudent (May 2, 2007)

Is Hypochondria a mental disorder or is it sin and can it be both?

I have known someone who has used their supposed illness to garner the sympathy of others to get what they wanted and felt no shame at all even though there was no real evidence of the person ever being really as sick as they claimed to be. This person has no shame and feels no guilt for using illness to manipulate others. What is worse is the fact that this person is a Christian or at lest claims to be one. 
This person may actually believe them self to be ill but by their actions, I sort of doubt it. If in fact that is the case then, does it mean that they are just out and out lying? and if so, how can they repent if they feel there is no real need to? This same person has often claimed to be terminally ill and yet whenever anyone has tried to find out what is wrong they are never given a straight answer. I would not think of this person as being that wicked but her past history of lying about other things makes me wonder.


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## tdowns (May 3, 2007)

*Interesting......*

I think, we are in a time, that Christians need to search and come to truths in the area of Psychiatry and the mind......your case is a good example....it is a lie to say that you are sick if you are not, which is a sin....but if that lie is based on a true malfunctioning mind, do we still call it sin, while also recognizing the need for a medical fix?

Take the case for any disorder; Anxiety? Is it a sin to be anxious, and to not trust in God? Some people are wired this way, and need council and maybe meds to help.....

Lethargy?
Depression?

What about something more obvious, like Homosexuality? We know for a fact, that this behavior is a sin, and even the thoughts of it would be. But, there is HEAVY research, that this trait is picked up through parenting, childhood issues. And with great amounts of therapy, can be treated (to the world's dismay). Current research shows the actual chemical reactions of the brain, that cause many psychological issues.....DOES IT TAKE AWAY RESPONSIBILITY, NO, NEVER....but it needs to be recognized to treat the entire person.

So, I believe, while we need to recognize sin as sin....saying REPENT OF YOUR LETHARGY, to someone who has chemical imbalances, etc. Is not going to help the person, we need to say, Yes, Lethargy is a sin, Yes I will pray for you, and Yes, you need to repent of it....but you may need a medical professional to help you to treat your sickness.

Just some thoughts on this, because, there are many in the church, that want to brush all psychological issues under the rug, say trust God, repent....and move on.....but they would never say that if someone showed up with a broken leg......and if a person with a psychological illness, is in a church, that considers psychological illnesses to be bunk, then that person is going to have extra burdens place on them that should not be, and I've heard of suicide being the result in some cases......

Bottom line, people who are sick, need doctors.....they need to pray, and seek healing from God, but Doctors can be used, some modern day churches are the equivalent of cults (blood transfusions, etc) when it comes to mental health, implying it is a sin to even need it.

Yes, the psycho-babble is abused by many, but, for some, mental health is something that is in need of specialists.

Just my two cent rant......


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## MrMerlin777 (May 3, 2007)

tdowns007 said:


> I think, we are in a time, that Christians need to search and come to truths in the area of Psychiatry and the mind......your case is a good example....it is a lie to say that you are sick if you are not, which is a sin....but if that lie is based on a true malfunctioning mind, do we still call it sin, while also recognizing the need for a medical fix?
> 
> Take the case for any disorder; Anxiety? Is it a sin to be anxious, and to not trust in God? Some people are wired this way, and need council and maybe meds to help.....
> 
> ...




Good post!


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## Storm (May 3, 2007)

*Is it a sin to use psychology?*

I agree that some folks in the church think couseling is a cop out. They say, "if you just had an accountability partner or a friend you could talk to you wouldn't need to pay someone." Well, the sad fact is that for many, the church (Bible studies and prayer groups) are NOT safe places to talk about weaknesses and struggles.

I think we (I) do a lousy job in the church of loving and accepting people where they're at. Shoot, I bet most of us would be totally offended by the people Jesus would hang out with if He were with us in the flesh.

I've never seen anyone come to church and open up that he was struggling with homosexual feelings. I think folks come and get saved. But then they put on a suit and a smile and start living the "victorious Christian life." But they really lead lives of "quiet desparation."

Why can't we be real?


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## MrMerlin777 (May 3, 2007)

Storm said:


> Why can't we be real?



I've wondered that myself for years.

I've seen my fill of "used car salesman Christianity". 

We should be honest with our brethren, and ourselves.


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## tdowns (May 3, 2007)

*Used Car-salesman*

Now that's funny, and on the money!


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## turmeric (May 4, 2007)

Simul iustus et peccator.


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## Bladestunner316 (May 4, 2007)

I agree with your post Trevor!!


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## Jerusalem Blade (May 8, 2007)

This is an area where answers must be nuanced.

There are some Christian counselors who operate according to a counseling paradigm based on non-Biblical views of human nature, sanctification, justification, and the character of God.

There are two approaches/schools I respect: The Christian Counseling and Education Foundation [CCEF] (David Powlison, Paul and Ted Tripp, Ed Welch, et al), and Jay Adams -- and the two are closely related, Adams being sort of the father of the former, though they have some differences.

CCEF: http://ccef.org/home.htm

There are counselors who take a victim-centered approach -- as opposed to Christ-centered -- and one can see that there is a tendency to "comfort" the person sinning, rather than telling them repentance is necessary in order to have a clean conscience toward God and others. Some counseling approaches wreak serious damage in individuals, families, and even marriages.

There are times when meds are in order, but often this option is abused.

I do not think a professional counselor is always necessary (a good Christian counselor, even if professional, is a treasure); there are lay people with a Spirit-illumined knowledge of the human heart and mind, who know the Lord and His grace to a profound degree, who may help many troubled souls.

Are there no such persons in the "hypochondriac's" church or circle of friends? Has this person ever been gently confronted with their behavior? Do they have a desire for growth which may be utilized to the end of putting away such behavior?

The CCEF approach looks at "the sins beneath the sins," that is, the idols of the heart which guide behaviors. Example, a person steals, and the idol underneath that sin is....insecurity, envy? A person lies, and the idol underneath is....fear of rejection/need for approval? In all cases, we worship something other than the true God.

CCEF writers call addictions "worship disorders". They seek to effect change in the deeps of the heart -- where we are motivated -- and not _merely_ stop the behaviors.

Steve


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## BJClark (May 8, 2007)

Jerusalem Blade;




> There are counselors who take a victim-centered approach -- as opposed to Christ-centered -- and one can see that there is a tendency to "comfort" the person sinning, rather than telling them repentance is necessary in order to have a clean conscience toward God and others. Some counseling approaches wreak serious damage in individuals, families, and even marriages.



I had to laugh when I read this...not that it's funny, but a friend of mine is going to counseling now and when he e-mails me he constantly has the same typo "I went to consoling today" but the reality is, that is how many counselors are...they are consolers and not counselors.

The counselor he is seeing calls him on his sin, and refers to scripture to point it out, and calls him to repentance. 

His wife is also in counseling, but her counselor is more of a consolor than a true Biblical counselor. She appears to be feeding into the lies of continued sin and not addressing the sin in order to truly help her.

Reformingstudent,

If you look at the description of many so-called mental illnesses today, the descriptions are addressed as sin in the Bible.

Depression is not a sin per se' but it certainly can be the consequences of sin, if we look at the Psalms many of them are about the depressed soul, and how sin oppresses the soul which in turn leads to depression if not addressed.

And yes, there are some chemical imbalances which can cause this, there have even been studies that have shown how childhood trauma can effect the brains development towards the fight/flight reflexes. Where the natural body chemicals are not going where they were created by God to go, there was a disconnect at some point brought on by the trauma. Medications and good biblical counseling really can HELP with these things. 

Medications and the chemical compounds used in them can open the right paths for the natural chemicals to flow, and sound counseling can help a person address the issues so that the natural chemicals will begin to flow where they need to go. It does take time, but it can be done.

I actually did a research paper on this a few years ago for a college class I was taking.


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## staythecourse (May 8, 2007)

*Difference between Psychologist and Pastor*



> but if that lie is based on a true malfunctioning mind, do we still call it sin, while also recognizing the need for a medical fix?



Sin is sin whether the person realizes it or not and they will have to face facts - bad mind or not. We are deluded, each of us, and that delusion can only be done away with by truth - not just statements of fact but presented to the person in "Spirit and truth." 

If the Pastor can wrestle the lie that the person has believed to the ground he is doing his job - that is counseling. If the Psychologist does it the same way - in Spirit and truth - they are then being a pastor.

I am doing a study on "flesh" in the NT. There was no separation of mind and body in the NT. Paul, like in the OT, kept them together.


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## Storm (May 8, 2007)

*Gnostics*

Hey, "Stay the course,"

In your study of the "flesh," does it say anything about that being separate from our spirits? I think the Gnostics wanted to separate what they did in their bodies from what they felt in their spirits. I know that Jesus redeems us body and spirit, but it sure seems like the flesh takes over sometimes...how does that all go with holiness???


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## staythecourse (May 8, 2007)

*Hellenism and Gnosticism*

What I've found so far is the Greeks/Hellenists/Gnostics all tried to separate man into compartments. Gnostics would separate flesh from their "pure" soul to the point that outrageous sins could be commited and justified because the flesh was already corrupted. Flesh is not evil in and of itself because God made things and said it was good - including Adam in his flesh even calling us to propogate the flesh.

I will finish up the paper in a bit but, no, our spirits are in our flesh and are part of the whole working dependently with it. Regarding "can the two be separate?" Paul might have gotten transported in the spirit to heaven and perhaps for a time his spirit was separated from the flesh. What people would have seen as this happened was him in a trance or asleep. "Lights on nobody home." That's my best understanding.

But going back to psychology. The lie has to be hit between the eyes with Spirit-Truth whether an MD is behind the persons name, Rev. in front, or a Mr. Mrs. Ms., or (what's short for Master? Mr. again?)


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## Jane (May 12, 2007)

*real illness or manipulation or others?*

To the original poster, it sounds like your friend is using an imaginary illness to manipulate others if she has claimed to have a terminal illness in the past that didn't turn out to be terminal.

The only thing I wish to add is that a lot of us, myself included, have health problems because of inherited illnesses that are only now being properly diagnosed. We have spent years blaming ourselves for being sick repeatedly, being unable to hold down a job, not being productive, not to knowing why we could go to bed feeling fine one night and wake up feeling like we'd been hit by a truck the next morning. 

I have common migraines that were not recognized by the medical community as a real illness years ago, but I didn't have the classic symptoms of a visual aura, vomiting, and light sensitivty (that I perceived). I had diarrhea and sound sensitivity but who cares about that?

My daughter has had dysautonomia for almost six years, and I had to fight the doctors to get a diagnosis instead of having her labelled "school avoidant." My twin sister has fibromyalgia. 

The one thing all three diseases have in common is a malfunction of the autonomic nervous system. Obviously there is something genetic that we have inherited that is causing us problems, but it is not something that shows up readily in a blood test. Most of our symptoms are self-reported so it is easy for doctors to write us off as "attention seeking" or "drug seekers." 

I would urge you to give the judgment of charity unless and until you have proof that your friend is using an imaginary illness to manipulate you. Try to remember that there are many diseases that are only now being recognized as real medical conditions that used to be considered "all in the mind" of the patient. It's hard enough to be sick without being blamed for it by your family and friends.


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## eternallifeinchrist (May 20, 2007)

I am so glad you found out what was going on. Hugs! I am sorry you are having to go through it. 

For the original quote: Plus, even if this person is making up an illness, perhaps they really need some help!  May the Lord bless this person with a great understanding of how great a salvation they possess and let them use their possibly feigned sickness to bring others to know him and grow stronger in their walk with Christ.

Consoler! Hehehehe! Tha's fun-nee! So, what about a life coach? I think this could be a phenomenal thing in the Christian community. How do you become a life coach? Do they offer classes at seminary??? 





Jane said:


> To the original poster, it sounds like your friend is using an imaginary illness to manipulate others if she has claimed to have a terminal illness in the past that didn't turn out to be terminal.
> 
> The only thing I wish to add is that a lot of us, myself included, have health problems because of inherited illnesses that are only now being properly diagnosed. We have spent years blaming ourselves for being sick repeatedly, being unable to hold down a job, not being productive, not to knowing why we could go to bed feeling fine one night and wake up feeling like we'd been hit by a truck the next morning.
> 
> ...


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