# Bibleworks 8 Launched



## bened (Nov 21, 2008)

FYI for BWphiles in our midst.

Here's a snippet from the launch announcement. (Link to full announcement and ordering info below.)

*BibleWorks News*




> *BibleWorks 8 Has Launched!*
> 
> New tools and essential references offer unequaled exegetical capabilities for enriched research of the Biblical text.
> 
> BibleWorks has launched version 8 with a tremendous array of innovative tools, essential resources and interactive capabilities! Now users can have more Bible translations (190+), 35 original language texts and morphology databases, 29 lexical-grammatical references, plus a wealth of practical reference works, giving them tightly integrated databases with powerful morphology and analysis tools.


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## Marrow Man (Nov 21, 2008)

How much?

Ooops, just saw it -- $349!

I have GramCord already on my computer. It's nice, but not as nice as BW obviously. It cost about 1/3 as much as BW. Would dropping $350 on BW be worth it if I already have something remotely similar?


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## bened (Nov 21, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> How much?
> 
> Ooops, just saw it -- $349!
> 
> I have GramCord already on my computer. It's nice, but not as nice as BW obviously. It cost about 1/3 as much as BW. Would dropping $350 on BW be worth it if I already have something remotely similar?



I hear you. The upgrade isn't too bad, $149 from BW7 and $175 from BW6 and before.

Personally, I've heard great things about gramcord and know D.A. Carson backs it. 

_But_ I don't have gramcord and have never used it, but have used BW for years. Even so, for working quickly and efficiently w/the text, it's worth it - at least to me. The upgrade price, for those who have it now, makes it a no-brainer.

I'm really excited about the new context capabilities they're adding to it. I've upgraded since around version 3 or thereabouts and haven't regretted it once - though having to learn the new twists on something I've got half-way figured out usually gives me pause.

I think they give you something like a 90-day, no-risk trial. So, if you tried it and still like gramcord, you're out nothing and still got to take the new BW8 for a spin.

Would also be a great Christmas gift for a church to give to its pastor/teaching elder. (Hint-hint for those of you in a position to influence such things in thy fellowship.)


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 21, 2008)

Cool. This means I'll be able to afford BW7...


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## bened (Nov 21, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> How much?
> 
> Ooops, just saw it -- $349!
> 
> I have GramCord already on my computer. It's nice, but not as nice as BW obviously. It cost about 1/3 as much as BW. Would dropping $350 on BW be worth it if I already have something remotely similar?



I hear you. $350 is more than a decent sum. But the upgrade isn't too bad, $149 from BW7 and $175 from BW6 and before. 

Personally, I've heard great things about gramcord and know D.A. Carson backs it, which is no small endorsement.

_But_ I don't have gramcord and have never used it, but have used BW for years. Even so, for working quickly and efficiently w/the text, it's worth it - at least to me. The upgrade price, for those who have it now, makes it a no-brainer.

I'm really excited about the new context capabilities they're adding to it. I've upgraded since around version 3 or thereabouts and haven't regretted it once - though having to learn the new twists on something I've got half-way figured out usually gives me pause.

I think they give you something like a 90-day, no-risk trial. So, if you tried it and still like gramcord, you're out nothing and still got to take the new BW8 for a spin. 

For an expository preacher, which I'm assuming you are or you wouldn't have gramcord, it's a huge help and worth the investment - or at least giving it a trial run, then you make the call after that. 

Would also be a great Christmas gift for a church to give to its pastor/teaching elder. (Hint-hint for those of you in a position to influence such things in thy fellowship.)


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## N. Eshelman (Nov 21, 2008)

I have BW7. LOVE IT! My question is: If you have 7 is there really $150 worth of new goodies that would make the upgrade worth the money (and the time learning a new layout)? I am not sure if there would be.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 21, 2008)




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## SolaScriptura (Nov 21, 2008)

Sounds great!


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## Marrow Man (Nov 21, 2008)

Gramcord does everything I need it to do, really. It has several translations (but not the ESV; I bought it around 2002 and I think that was too early for ESV to be a translation offered). The search features are sophisticated enough that I don't know how to use them all. It offers both TR and NA Greek texts, but there is no critical apparatus. It includes several Greek tools: Louw-Nida, BDB. Thayers, etc.

One of my complaints is that Gramcord is prone to crashing. On one of our computers, it stopped working altogether (it takes a while to install b/c of various codes to "unlock" it, and since I don't use that computer very much anymore, I never reinstalled it). Sometimes it crashes if you do a word search and try to skip to the end (apparently this goes too fast, even though it's supposed to be a feature). I must say, though, that overall it's a decent program, a poor man's/seminarian's BW.


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## bened (Nov 21, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I have BW7. LOVE IT! My question is: If you have 7 is there really $150 worth of new goodies that would make the upgrade worth the money (and the time learning a new layout)? I am not sure if there would be.



Fair enough.


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## CovenantalBaptist (Nov 21, 2008)

For those looking for a better "Grammcord" the morphology database is included "under the hood" in Logos Libronix (LLS). The cost of Libronix is however much steeper than Bibleworks (who I believe has some connections to a PCA church). If you're looking to lower the cost of BW, if you can scrounge up some friends and do a group buy you can reduce your cost some. Students at my former seminary did this.

If I hadn't been given a free copy of LLS, I probably would have gone the Grammcord or BW route just on cost alone. I'm very thankful for the gift - God's providence once again blessed (and continues to) this sinner.


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## nicnap (Nov 21, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Cool. This means I'll be able to afford BW7...



 I too can do the upgrade now...I have BW6.


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## caddy (Nov 26, 2008)

*Bibleworks 8 is out. Who's upgrading?*

? 

Bibleworks 8


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 26, 2008)

This thread may be of interest:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f66/bibleworks-8-launched-40319/


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## Poimen (Nov 26, 2008)

I have BW4. It doesn't look like I can upgrade from that version. 

But from the looks of it purchasing BW8 by itself would be worth it.


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## caddy (Nov 26, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> This thread may be of interest:
> 
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f66/bibleworks-8-launched-40319/




Thanks scrooge

J.Marley


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## greenbaggins (Nov 26, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I have BW7. LOVE IT! My question is: If you have 7 is there really $150 worth of new goodies that would make the upgrade worth the money (and the time learning a new layout)? I am not sure if there would be.



Fully integrated early church fathers sounds like it is worth the price alone. I have visions of every textual reference to a particular passage referenced in the commentaries of the fathers.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 26, 2008)

greenbaggins said:


> nleshelman said:
> 
> 
> > I have BW7. LOVE IT! My question is: If you have 7 is there really $150 worth of new goodies that would make the upgrade worth the money (and the time learning a new layout)? I am not sure if there would be.
> ...



I can only hope it is that good!


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2009)

Just got it and installed it. Now I have to figure what I can't do that I used to be able to, and all the things I can do now, that were not possible with BW7!


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## staythecourse (Jan 17, 2009)

Ahhh! I am biting my elbows over this. I want BW so bad I can taste it.

Let's see...The tax refund is coming up.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 17, 2009)

What is the difference between Bibleworks and Logos for Pastoral Study? Different tools for different purposes or do you Pastors not use Logos?


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2009)

Semper Fidelis said:


> What is the difference between Bibleworks and Logos for Pastoral Study? Different tools for different purposes or do you Pastors not use Logos?



Rich,

I have both. I use both in my study - often both are open at the same time. BW is a fast language tool. Logos is more like a library. BW does some search functions and other things easier than Logos; the reverse is also true.

Think of it like two tools that overlap some, but where one tool does a better job. Kingd of like large pliers and an adjustable wrench.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 17, 2009)

As a Seminary student who desires to save some $$ right now and won't be taking Greek right away, which should I get first?

Do you ave the Scholar's Gold library for Logos? At $1349, it's probably a killer library but I wonder if I should take the plunge at some point.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2009)

Semper Fidelis said:


> As a Seminary student who desires to save some $$ right now and won't be taking Greek right away, which should I get first?
> 
> Do you ave the Scholar's Gold library for Logos? At $1349, it's probably a killer library but I wonder if I should take the plunge at some point.



I don't know that you need Scholars Gold, and you can always upgrade. If you don't know any original languages, I don't think you get bang for your buck for BW. Logos does simple English searches just as fast.

You get just about everything you need (now) with Logos Scholars. That is what I have. Look at the comparison, and see whether the missing resources are worth the $700 difference. I don't need it, and I'm a pastor with 20 years of Greek.

Comparison Chart - Compare Logos Bible Software Packages

Also, you should be able to get a discount on both BW and Logos because you are a seminary student. BW requires a "bulk" purchase - so ask New Geneva. Logos you should call. They have student pricing that they can send you.


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## Archlute (Jan 17, 2009)

Also, Rich, if you do get Bibleworks for your seminary studies you must refrain from cheating yourself in your learning, especially when you are under pressure of completing multiple class readings and assignments for the following morning. Many students took short cuts in translation and tried to avoid learning their vocab by having BW spit out the answers for them on their homework. This prevented them from really thinking through the languages, and cripples the will against gaining a basic proficiency in sight reading the Scriptures.

BW is an outstanding tool for sure, but only after the basics have been mastered in the mind. Unfortunately, there are seminaries out there that have been attempting to teach the languages exclusively by means of teaching students how to use the BW search function. None of these seminaries are Reformed, thankfully.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2009)

Archlute said:


> Also, Rich, if you do get Bibleworks for your seminary studies you must refrain from cheating yourself in your learning, especially when you are under pressure of completing multiple class readings and assignments for the following morning. Many students took short cuts in translation and tried to avoid learning their vocab by having BW spit out the answers for them on their homework. This prevented them from really thinking through the languages, and cripples the will against gaining a basic proficiency in sight reading the Scriptures.
> 
> BW is an outstanding tool for sure, but only after the basics have been mastered in the mind. Unfortunately, there are seminaries out there that have been attempting to teach the languages exclusively by means of teaching students how to use the BW search function. None of these seminaries are Reformed, thankfully.



This is true. Even in my day (the late 80s), Classics students would be tempted to get around learning the languages and taking shortcuts using Loebs and translations. (We did not have ANY computer tools).


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## PresbyDane (Jan 17, 2009)

Sorry I am a Logos guy


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

I have installed BW 8 on my computer, and I must say that I am blown away by it. Get this: the Schaff Early Church Fathers fully integrated (which means that you can find every place the ECF mention a particular verse simply by scrolling down the screen), the Jewish targums and Talmud (the former in Aramaic and English translation, the latter only in English), also fully integrated in a similar manner. That right there is the worth the whole price. Cross-reference systems (note the plural) actually written out, instead of needing to click on them; Jouon-Muraoka's revised grammar, IBHS by Waltke/O'Connor, Wallace's Syntax and lots more. It is incredible.


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## Archlute (Jan 20, 2009)

greenbaggins said:


> I have installed BW 8 on my computer, and I must say that I am blown away by it. Get this: the Schaff Early Church Fathers fully integrated (which means that you can find every place the ECF mention a particular verse simply by scrolling down the screen), the Jewish targums and Talmud (the former in Aramaic and English translation, the latter only in English), also fully integrated in a similar manner. That right there is the worth the whole price. Cross-reference systems (note the plural) actually written out, instead of needing to click on them; Jouon-Muraoka's revised grammar, IBHS by Waltke/O'Connor, Wallace's Syntax and lots more. It is incredible.



I had forgotten that they were adding Jouon-Muraoka, Waltke/O'Connor, and Wallace. I think that those three modules alone ran something along the lines of 150.00 in previous BW editions. I have the 38 vol. hardback set edited by Schaff, and I think that was about 240.00 on sale at CBD. They are really packing some good stuff in there for the price.


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

I just checked the updates, and they now have the standard confessions of faith!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 20, 2009)

Which version of the WCF?


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

Hang on, let me check.

Okay, all versions are included. In other words, the main version is the 1789 revision. However, the words that were cut out are included within square brackets in the appropriate place. So all the words of the original are there as well.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 20, 2009)

It would be nice if they were annotated to show the changes in the original 1646 confession.


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> It would be nice if they were annotated to show the changes in the original 1646 confession.



It's not annotated, but the words are in square brackets.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 20, 2009)

This certainly sounds like a "Welcome to the Parish" present from the parents...


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## Archlute (Jan 20, 2009)

Do they now include the 3FU as well?


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

Yes, they do include the 3FU. By the way, all proof texts are included, and are clickable (ah, the beauty of computers!).


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 20, 2009)

You've got my blood boiling there Rev. Lane... Just sent a nice little groveling e-mail to the parents...  

(By the way I think my seminary has a deal with BW for a significant discount, I'll have to check that out...)


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## Archlute (Jan 20, 2009)

Thanks. I had already been waiting to pick up this version, and this new info just adds to my belief that it would be a good investment.


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

Of course, if you have a version already, the upgrade is significantly cheaper anyway. I paid $149 to upgrade from version 7, and I consider that an absolute steal.


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## Archlute (Jan 20, 2009)

Amen.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 20, 2009)

greenbaggins said:


> I have installed BW 8 on my computer, and I must say that I am blown away by it. Get this: the Schaff Early Church Fathers fully integrated (which means that you can find every place the ECF mention a particular verse simply by scrolling down the screen), the Jewish targums and Talmud (the former in Aramaic and English translation, the latter only in English), also fully integrated in a similar manner. That right there is the worth the whole price. Cross-reference systems (note the plural) actually written out, instead of needing to click on them; Jouon-Muraoka's revised grammar, IBHS by Waltke/O'Connor, Wallace's Syntax and lots more. It is incredible.



Lane,

How do you access the targums and Talmud? I only found a chm type file divided up by "Sabbaths." Not very useful. I'd like to be able to use Talmud comments on the passage I am reading.

I really like the additional tabs in the Analysis Window, but I wish they had left the ability to click on the Xrefs that came up in it from the ESV and NASB notes and see the text of the verse instead of just the reference. Now I have to switch tabs.


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## greenbaggins (Jan 20, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> > I have installed BW 8 on my computer, and I must say that I am blown away by it. Get this: the Schaff Early Church Fathers fully integrated (which means that you can find every place the ECF mention a particular verse simply by scrolling down the screen), the Jewish targums and Talmud (the former in Aramaic and English translation, the latter only in English), also fully integrated in a similar manner. That right there is the worth the whole price. Cross-reference systems (note the plural) actually written out, instead of needing to click on them; Jouon-Muraoka's revised grammar, IBHS by Waltke/O'Connor, Wallace's Syntax and lots more. It is incredible.
> ...



On the Targums, click on the Browse Window Options, and then click Choose Display Versions. OKE is the Onkelos English translation, PJE is the Pseudo-Jonathan English translation, and PST is the Psalms Targum English translation (they don't seem to have an English translation of Neofiti). As to the Talmud, it's in the summary window (right hand window, click on Resources, and then Summary). Scroll down, and you will find all the references in Rodkinson's Talmud. I would click on Genesis 1:1. It will also have all confessional references there when you download the relevant update and reload Bibleworks.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 20, 2009)

greenbaggins said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > greenbaggins said:
> ...




So the OKE and PJE are Pentateuch only, the PST is Psalms only, right? Is there a Targum for the other OT?


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## greenbaggins (Jan 21, 2009)

That I don't know. I don't think there are any other targums on there.


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