# is this horrible snobbery or what?



## christiana (Sep 23, 2009)

copied from Christianity Today article on calvinism:

We are the Lord's elected few
Let all the rest be damned
Theres room enough in hell for you
We dont want heaven crammed


this is so pitiful, even in jest. wondered if anyone else had seen it and had thoughts?


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## AThornquist (Sep 23, 2009)

I can't help but laugh at how _stupid_ that is.


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## charliejunfan (Sep 23, 2009)

ROFL, It's so TRUE


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## louis_jp (Sep 23, 2009)

How about turning it around:

We are better than the rest of you
a life of faith we choose
you're a stupid nincompoop
It is your fault you lose



so I'm not a poet....


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 23, 2009)

Well as a Post-Millenialist I know that is not directed towards me as I believe the Elect outnumber the damned.


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## louis_jp (Sep 23, 2009)

Or how about this:

My merit is what sets me free
God he has no choice
He is rather ineffectual you see
and has to heed my voice

 somebody please stop me


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## kevin.carroll (Sep 23, 2009)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Well as a Post-Millenialist I know that is not directed towards me as I believe the Elect outnumber the damned.



Really? There's been a lot of peeps throughout history.


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## louis_jp (Sep 23, 2009)

Joshua said:


> louis_jp said:
> 
> 
> > Or how about this:
> ...



Ha! Much better!


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## Curt (Sep 23, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Sounds like a typical caricature of Calvinism.



Sounds like a typical entry from "Christianity Irrelevant."


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## Tripel (Sep 23, 2009)

what was the context of the Calvinism caricature?


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## Augusta (Sep 23, 2009)

That's awful!   What was the context?


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## DMcFadden (Sep 23, 2009)

Before we tar and feather Dr. George, please read the quote IN CONTEXT, where it says . . . 



> The elect are not the elite. There is no place in Calvin's thought for the kind of spiritual snobbery reflected in the old camp-meeting ditty, "We are the Lord's elected few, / let all the rest be damned./ There's room enough in hell for you, / we don't want heaven crammed!" The true Calvinist preaches the gospel promiscuously to all persons everywhere, aware that God alone infallibly knows all those who belong to him.



"John Calvin: Comeback Kid Why the 500-year-old Reformer retains an enthusiastic following today," Timothy George, _Christianity Today_ September 2009, Vol. 53, No. 9.


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## Blue Tick (Sep 23, 2009)

*How about this...*

Free will what joy

Man's autonomy is my toy

Christ died for all 

Even before the fall

Ask Jesus into your heart

HE needs you give it a start

Calvinists are mean

Their faith is the size of a bean

They think their elect

As for me I'd rather select

Go away meanie clavinist 

My Jesus died for all


*Now for the Biblical Poem...*


A wretched stench in the sight of Him

Look pitiful man your state is grim

Holy, Beautiful, and Most wise

As for me I despise

My hatred for you is ever known

Oh, how sweet your mercy is shown

You've taken this heart of sin 

Turned into a lowly grin

My life is yours, My Lord

Thank you for Mercy and your Word

My will and sin focused on destruction

Oh, how sweet your loving instruction

Redeemed from the pit of hell

Now my soul is very well

-----Added 9/23/2009 at 05:22:22 EST-----



DMcFadden said:


> Before we tar and feather Dr. George, please read the quote IN CONTEXT, where it says . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks for putting the quote in context. Though, may I add, there are quite a few non-reformed Christians who have this view of Calvinists.


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## Southern Twang (Sep 23, 2009)

kevin.carroll said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Well as a Post-Millenialist I know that is not directed towards me as I believe the Elect outnumber the damned.
> ...




History could be just getting started. I believe most postmillers would say we have between 60,000 and 120,000 years to go.


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## OPC'n (Sep 23, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Or this:
> YouTube - Deficient Grace



This is great!!!!


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## Augusta (Sep 23, 2009)

Thanks Dennis. Context is everything.


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## Rich Koster (Sep 23, 2009)

christiana said:


> copied from Christianity Today article on calvinism:
> 
> We are the Lord's elected few
> Let all the rest be damned
> ...



I don't bother reading Churchianity Today any longer. I stopped about 8 years ago because the majority of the content either provoked anger in me or just left me asking why it was set to print. The adds in the back of the magazine are quite an eyebrow lifter too. I really enjoy those "apostles" and "prophets" that look like fascist dictators in their advertisements.


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## Jon Peters (Sep 23, 2009)

Augusta said:


> Thanks Dennis. Context is everything.



I agree. How can one latch onto the quote and not see the context?


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## christiana (Sep 23, 2009)

yes, as i said, even in jrst it is not acceptable.


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## Jon Peters (Sep 23, 2009)

Prufrock said:


> Southern Twang said:
> 
> 
> > I believe most postmillers would say we have between 60,000 and 120,000 years to go.
> ...



Because it's much easier to justify present circumstances when so much time is still left on the clock.

Back in my post-mil days I argued that we had perhaps 10,000 years left. Any number cited is completely arbitrary.

-----Added 9/23/2009 at 07:49:34 EST-----



christiana said:


> yes, as i said, even in jrst it is not acceptable.



Even though it was not in jest (I think Josh is right he was actually defending Calvinism against the slur), it's still kind of funny.


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## Knoxienne (Sep 23, 2009)

It's "Christianity Astray". What else is to be expected?


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 23, 2009)

christiana said:


> copied from Christianity Today article on calvinism:
> 
> We are the Lord's elected few
> Let all the rest be damned
> ...



What a cool song! 

I can't imagine what would possibly be wrong with it.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 23, 2009)

Knoxienne said:


> It's "Christianity Astray". What else is to be expected?



Toni, did you read the context? It was a DEFENSE of Calvinism!!!

If we want to critique CT, go ahead. I have watched it descend from a "fourtnightly journal of evangelical conviction" with a strong theological core to something so trendy that it regularly drives me up a tree. But we do ourselves no favors when we misrepresent, misread, and slander those with whom we disagree. [I suspect that you were going for the laugh since it is so clever a line. My reaction was directed towards those for whom that kind of response would be serious and not for laughs.]

But, on the other hand, it is sooooo much fun. 

[BTW, your "Christianity Astray" reminds me of Barth's dismissive line to Carl F.H. Henry during the Baseler's famous "American tour" when he replied to Henry's identification that he was with "Christianity Today," "Oh, you mean Christianity _Yesterday_?" I had not heard your line before and intend to use it soon.]


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## christiana (Sep 23, 2009)

> But we do ourselves no favors when we misrepresent, misread, and slander those with whom we disagree.



I must ask if you are suggesting i was doing this by posting it here?


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## DMcFadden (Sep 23, 2009)

> I must ask if you are suggesting i was doing this by posting it here?



Of course not. You saw it, cited it, and invited discussion of the merits of the ditty. I agree with all of the comments made by those slamming it as reductionistic, mean spirited, uncomprehending, etc. The source was rather incidental, particularly since it was a quotation in an article, not purporting to represent the position of the author. 

The Bible quotes the devil. That does not make it wrong to read the quotes and invite discussion on a message board like the PB. It would only become a problem if someone cited the words of Satan to Jesus and claimed that Ah Ha! Now we know what the Bible really teaches! 

I only jumped in when the topic shifted to the motives of the author of the article or of Christianity Today for publishing it. In that instance, the context is everything and it would be a slander to a group of Christians to attribute to them things they cite in order to disagree with or condemn as if it were their own positions.


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## christiana (Sep 23, 2009)

thanks dennis. i should have made the context clearer when posting however. thanks for adding that part.


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## kevin.carroll (Sep 24, 2009)

Southern Twang said:


> History could be just getting started. I believe most postmillers would say we have between 60,000 and 120,000 years to go.



What an utterly depressing thought! What would they base that on? And what do they do with annoying realities like Total Depravity?


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## CNJ (Sep 24, 2009)

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrczyFvkv8Q&feature=related"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrczyFvkv8Q&feature=related[/ame]Joshua's posting of the horrible UTube "Deficient Grace" above somehow led me to the "Free Will Song".


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## AThornquist (Sep 24, 2009)

"_I give you freeddddooommmmmmm . . . will it be yes or noooooooooo?_"


I for one am beyond happy that God _did not_ give me a fair and unadulterated choice! I would end up in hell if He did!


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## Bookworm (Sep 24, 2009)

CNJ said:


> Joshua's posting of the horrible UTube "Deficient Grace" above somehow led me to the "Free Will Song".



Would that this were a spoof, but I'm guessing not...


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## Houchens (Sep 24, 2009)

CNJ said:


> YouTube - Free Will SongJoshua's posting of the horrible UTube "Deficient Grace" above somehow led me to the "Free Will Song".



Wow, this truly is so sad!


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## rpavich (Sep 24, 2009)

DMcFadden said:


> Before we tar and feather Dr. George, please read the quote IN CONTEXT, where it says . . .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



that's a 180 isn't it?


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## Skyler (Sep 24, 2009)

SolaScriptura said:


> christiana said:
> 
> 
> > copied from Christianity Today article on calvinism:
> ...



Yeah! I think I'm going to add that to our hymnbooks.


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