# I love Calvinism



## AnonymousRex (Jun 16, 2004)

I thought I would take a brief time-out from my discussion in the political forum and proclaim to the world how much I love this system of doctrine. It is glorious indeed.



AnonRex


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## A_Wild_Boar (Jun 16, 2004)

:thumbup:


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## FrozenChosen (Jun 16, 2004)

Those who deny election deny that God can have mercy. 

Robert Murray M'Cheyne 

:thumbup::thumbup:


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## Me Died Blue (Jun 16, 2004)

and . When I think of the word &quot;Calvinism,&quot; I don't just think election. I think of God's sovereignty in salvation, the centrality of the Cross, God's providence, His continuity (i.e. Covenant theology, paedobaptism), His order and finality (i.e. inerrancy, cessationism, Presbyterian church government), etc. I really do love and value this system of doctrine for its great biblical integrity, and its rich historical value.

In Christ,


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## johnny_redeemed (Jun 16, 2004)

When i think of &quot;Calvinism&quot; i think of the meat of the word that Paul talks about. T.U.L.I.P. is a beautiful flower and GREAT theology! Ever since i accepted this teaching as biblical the Bible as a whole has opened up to me in ways it never has before.

 and  to what has already been said!


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## luvroftheWord (Jun 17, 2004)

I am thankful to be, by God's grace, a Calvinist. But Calvinism does not stir me to rejoicing as it once did because I have found that Reformed churches all over America are filled with zealous Calvinists that think that just because they are 5 pointers that they automatically have &quot;good theology&quot;. But there is much more to Scripture than Calvinism. What's really frustrating to me is that there is a big chunk of the membership of PCA, OPC and other Reformed Presbyterian churches (including my church, St Paul's PCA in Orlando) that are BAPTISTS by conviction (of course, the vice versa is also true in many cases). Why? Oh, because Presbyterian churches are CALVINISTIC! So let's forget about the other Presbyterian distinctives such as infant baptism and presbyterian government, because as long as they are 5 pointers, they have good theology. This also demonstrates the ridiculously simplistic view of baptism that people have even among the Reformed tradition. My point is not to say that Presbyterians are right and Baptists are wrong or whatever. I'm just pointing out how simplistic the thinking is of many Reformed types. Personally, I would have a very hard time joining a Baptist church just because it was Calvinistic.

Sorry, I didn't mean to ruin the tone of this thread. That all just popped into my head when I saw the name of this thread. Ignore me if you want.


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## Craig (Jun 17, 2004)

If it makes you feel better, my church is is Presbyterian all the way!

Of course, I think my wife and I are about the only non-Dutch members. That probably has a lot to do with it. In fact, more than one couple were born in the Netherlands. One of em learned English by reading Calvin's Institutes in English.

While I'm posting, I might as well say why i love being Reformed:

When I wasn't reformed, I had to work through any questions I had on my own. There was no real consensus on answers and besides, people thought I was wasting my time thinking on these things. Becoming Reformed hasn't been merely some gnostic &quot;spiritual learning&quot; experience...it's really enriched the way I simply enjoy life.


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## Me Died Blue (Jun 17, 2004)

I couldn't agree more, Craig (Sowder). That's kind of why I tried to emphasize what I did in my post. When I first studied TULIP, it was all I read about for the first several months. But I've come to [i:785afe7f7b]really[/i:785afe7f7b] appreciate and love all the tenets of the Reformed faith equally, and can definitely relate to you abotu getting frustrated by people claiming the label &quot;Reformed&quot; just because they are five-pointers. That's largely why I have such an interest in studying confessionalism right now, and am passionate about such issues as paedobaptism, Presbyterian church government, cessationism, covenant theology and the like.

In Christ,


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## A_Wild_Boar (Jun 18, 2004)

[quote:1612519d03][i:1612519d03]Originally posted by Me Died Blue[/i:1612519d03]
I couldn't agree more, Craig (Sowder). That's kind of why I tried to emphasize what I did in my post. When I first studied TULIP, it was all I read about for the first several months. But I've come to [i:1612519d03]really[/i:1612519d03] appreciate and love all the tenets of the Reformed faith equally, and can definitely relate to you abotu getting frustrated by people claiming the label &quot;Reformed&quot; just because they are five-pointers. That's largely why I have such an interest in studying confessionalism right now, and am passionate about such issues as paedobaptism, Presbyterian church government, cessationism, covenant theology and the like.

In Christ, [/quote:1612519d03]

I am gonna have to ask. Obvioulsy I did not know Calvinism was more than the 5 points. Just what were the main distinctives of the reformation to be properly called &quot;reformed&quot;?

Why wasnt infant Baptism a point or main bone of contention? 

Basically what makes one officially &quot;reformed&quot; and why? What made the early church &quot;reformed&quot; different than Rome?

Just wondering. I was going to drop the reformed tag on my sig since it gets folks bound up for some reason. I guess I should drop the Calvinist tag as well? Maybe us Baptists who believe and love Gods Sovereignty, should call ourselves something else? I always sensed some restrained animosity towards Baptists here but maybe I am reading it all wrong?


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## Me Died Blue (Jun 18, 2004)

[quote:8b6423ead4][i:8b6423ead4]Originally posted by A_Wild_Boar[/i:8b6423ead4]
I am gonna have to ask. Obvioulsy I did not know Calvinism was more than the 5 points.[/quote:8b6423ead4]

Actually, typically when people use the word &quot;Calvinism&quot; or &quot;Calvinist&quot; they [i:8b6423ead4]are[/i:8b6423ead4] in fact referring only to the five points and God's providence, and that's basically just how the phrase has come to be used, with which I don't have a problem. However, the term &quot;Reformed&quot; has always been more specific, with more implications that come with it, yet in very recent years people have been starting to use it in just as broad of a way as the word &quot;Calvinism.&quot; And that's what I don't like.

[quote:8b6423ead4][i:8b6423ead4]Originally posted by A_Wild_Boar[/i:8b6423ead4]
Just what were the main distinctives of the reformation to be properly called &quot;reformed&quot;?[/quote:8b6423ead4]

I would say that the main doctrines that set the &quot;Reformed&quot; Christian apart from other conservative evangelicals are God's providence, His sovereignty in salvation, Particular Redemption, basic covenant theology (as opposed to Dispensationalism), paedobaptism, cessationism, church government, male ministers only, the view of both sacraments as means of grace, and the weight of confessional and ecclesiastical authority. Matt has an article on this topic at http://www.apuritansmind.com/Baptism/McMahon-WhatDoesItMeanToBeReformed.htm.

[quote:8b6423ead4][i:8b6423ead4]Originally posted by A_Wild_Boar[/i:8b6423ead4]
Basically what makes one officially &quot;reformed&quot; and why? What made the early church &quot;reformed&quot; different than Rome? Just wondering. I was going to drop the reformed tag on my sig since it gets folks bound up for some reason. I guess I should drop the Calvinist tag as well? Maybe us Baptists who believe and love Gods Sovereignty, should call ourselves something else? I always sensed some restrained animosity towards Baptists here but maybe I am reading it all wrong? [/quote:8b6423ead4]

I would basically say that the closest thnig you could get to having a criteria for making one &quot;officially Reformed&quot; or not would be the Reformed confessions, which are already part of the requirements for being a member here. Furthermore, while I do think that Baptists reject a significant piece of historical Reformec doctrine, I wouldn't go so far as to say you should drop the prefix &quot;Reformed,&quot; since it at least describes a good portion of your theological outlook. Also, you [i:8b6423ead4]definitely[/i:8b6423ead4] shouldn't drop the &quot;Calvinist&quot; tag, since today that term is generally used simply to refer to the doctrines of grace.

And I definitely hope I haven't ever given the impression of animosity towards you or the other Baptists on this board. While the Presbyterians on PB do outnumber the Baptists, and while the paedobaptist mindset is the historic mindset of the Reformers and Puritans, that is probably the most common and most accepted difference in people's doctrinal outlooks on this board, since, after all, one can hold to the WCF or the LBCF to join. So while we definitely disagree in that area, I hope that you won't continue to get an impression of animosity, and I also hope that any such things that do exist here dissolve.

In Christ,

[Edited on 6-18-2004 by Me Died Blue]


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## dado6 (Jun 18, 2004)

Tell it from the mountain, brother Rex!


We suck air and grow hair every day by His Grace alone!

Praise be to God and to Him alone be all glory!


Thanks,
Rob


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## grace2U (Jun 18, 2004)

That theology which exalts Almighty God the most is sure to be the correct one 

That which has the purest and simplest worship will be that which exalts Him the most.

That which places His word over the words of men will be that which honours Him the most:book:

What else but the Reformed faith?

But Christopher: consider the possibility that it is the Baptists who have continued the Reformation.

Rome is [i:9b6de235b1]Semper eadem[/i:9b6de235b1]
Presbyterianism is [i:9b6de235b1]Semper Reformata[/i:9b6de235b1], but In my humble opinion only
Credo-baptism has truly followed [i:9b6de235b1]Semper Reformanda[/i:9b6de235b1]

Blessings to all,
Steve


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jun 18, 2004)

[quote:470f4da520]
consider the possibility that it is the Baptists who have continued the Reformation. 
[/quote:470f4da520]

You may want to read thorugh these recent threads:

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=4953

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=4894

http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=5002

They discuss independency, schism, ordination, and polity. If Independents, of any kind, claim &quot;semper reformanda,&quot; then they will have to overcome some difficult theological obstacles that they have yet to conquer.

It would be fair to say (as with any demonination) that it is either one way or the other - either Baptists have continued the reformation, or they have fought against it and hindered it.

[Edited on 6-18-2004 by webmaster]


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## Radar (Jun 18, 2004)

*Sometimes it seems it won't be long before...*

the schismatic baptistic independents grow so wearisome to the tR that the LBCF will be removed as an acceptable statement and the credos will be banished to outside forums.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jun 18, 2004)

Radar, we would never do that.

We only ban those who purposefully insult, are heretics, those who subvert and overthrow the truth, etc.

We have had some of them... :tomb:


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## Me Died Blue (Jun 18, 2004)

[quote:e0fac03349][i:e0fac03349]Originally posted by grace2U[/i:e0fac03349]
That theology which exalts Almighty God the most is sure to be the correct one 

That which has the purest and simplest worship will be that which exalts Him the most.

That which places His word over the words of men will be that which honours Him the most:book:

What else but the Reformed faith?[/quote:e0fac03349]

 Well said, Steve!

[quote:e0fac03349][i:e0fac03349]Originally posted by grace2U[/i:e0fac03349]
But Christopher: consider the possibility that it is the Baptists who have continued the Reformation.

Rome is [i:e0fac03349]Semper eadem[/i:e0fac03349]
Presbyterianism is [i:e0fac03349]Semper Reformata[/i:e0fac03349], but In my humble opinion only
Credo-baptism has truly followed [i:e0fac03349]Semper Reformanda[/i:e0fac03349][/quote:e0fac03349]

For one thing, Semper Reformanda does not necessarily mean reforming everything, but only that which is found to warrant reforming. Furthermore, Presbyterianism [i:e0fac03349]has[/i:e0fac03349] greatly reformed the Roman doctrine of infant baptism with all its implicationsm, since their doctrine of infant baptism is totally foreign to the Reformed doctrine of paedobaptism. Presbyterians simply haven't seen warrant to reform that Roman doctrine [i:e0fac03349]as much[/i:e0fac03349] as the Baptists have, and in fact as I see it the Baptists have sort of thrown out the baby with the bathwater in their reforming of it.

In Christ,


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## FrozenChosen (Jun 19, 2004)

[quote:d0196457fb][i:d0196457fb]Originally posted by Me Died Blue[/i:d0196457fb]
and in fact as I see it the Baptists have sort of thrown out the baby with the bathwater in their reforming of it.
[/quote:d0196457fb]

What a great analogy for infant baptism. Hehe.


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## Me Died Blue (Jun 20, 2004)

Wow, you're right. That's such a fitting pun, but I must humbly admit that I didn't even notice it when I made my post!  I don't know how I could have missed that!


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## Reena Wilms (Jun 20, 2004)

Dear webmaster,

You wrote :

&quot; ....It would be fair to say (as with any demonination) that it is either one way or the other - either Baptists have continued the reformation, or they have fought against it and hindered it. &quot;


Can you explain more in detail what you mean ? 

Ralph.


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