# For those with big families



## RamistThomist (Oct 16, 2006)

As someone who hopes the Lord blesses him with many arrows, and as one who realizes that our familiy will probably be single income, what are some bits of wisdom from those of you with big families on budgeting, buying wisely, and __________ (I was looking for another word that started with "b" but couldn't find one)?

Thanks,


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 16, 2006)

Determination....


It may mean having to do without some things that others consider "basic"...tv, for a time it was our phone, do yourself a favor and don't buy new cars (however, at one time that was the only way we could see ourselves getting a car because of the rebates), be willing to work two jobs if you have to. Your wife runs the home...thus finding the cheapest grocery, being willing to use a clothesline instead of dryer, cloth diapers/wipes/avoiding disposibles basically (btw, cloth dipes are adorable now...not just prefolds/flats/rubber pants...if anyone is interested pm me), not going to the dr more than neccessary (ie., don't be a hypocondriac) and now how to handle your health naturally, etc. There are several boards you could snoop on.

prairiehomemaker.com (a variety of ppl...but a Christian leaning board...frugality is the big thing)
mothering.com (a crunchy, natural living website...but VERY PC...and they have literally ALL kinds....think modern hippies)


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## Kevin (Oct 16, 2006)

Move to a place with a low cost of living!

Steve Sailor has writen before on the topic of affordable housing and family formation/size. He was pointed out some interesting things. Basic idea is what LadyFlynt said above live within your means. Have your priororities straight. I only have 4 kids now but to most people who come into my office & see the pics it is a shock! I always say--It is a lifestyle choice, to us having a family is more important than whatever else people spend money on.


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## RamistThomist (Oct 16, 2006)

Thanks, Colleen.
Well, I hate television with all my heart and being and have lived fairly simple for the past few years. Thanks for the links. Will check them out at the end of the week.


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## Romans922 (Oct 16, 2006)

You hate Lost too, huh?


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 16, 2006)

Living in a low cost of living area helps a lot. Unfortunately my family has lived in very high cost of living areas, but we have still managed fine. New Jersey Cost of Living was extreme and we have incurred debt as a result, but we will get through it. My family has matured spiritually as well as physically these past 6+ years. I wish I was where many of you are at in sanctification and maturity back when my family began. You who are firm in your theology and are concerned about these matters before starting a family are at an advantage.

Basically what we do is try to loose all attraction to materialism. We have done without television for five years which helps financially and spiritually. We pay off all our vehicles and keep them rather than buy new on a regular basis. 

Be practical and self-disciplined. My wife is very good about finding good quality clothes for the children at yard sales and such. She regularly gets the kids picture taken at the Picture People, but does not spend a dime. They routinely send free sitting and 8x10 deals thinking that the temptation to buy more will be too strong, but my wife never gives in and as a result we have many quality portraits hanging in our house costing us nothing but a frame. We spend our free time with family rather than going golfing every weekend or sporting events, etc. Now and then these things can certainly be budgeted, but often time the people who ask us how we do it, are the same people who drive BMW’s, golf every week, have season tickets to the games, have two kids or fewer, have a gazillion channels fed through satellite or the like and are regulars at local bars and/or entertainment hubs. 

Priorities:

Church, food, clothing, housing, transportation, and of course books (education). After all that, then you can indulge in the extra stuff with the surplus.

My family bottle/formula feeds and uses disposable diapers and we are ok. There are many ways you can save, it is a matter of how far you want to go to get savings. You can grow your own fruits and vegetables depending on your property size and climate. We try to eat healthy, but at the same time save on groceries (which is not so easy considering the healthy foods are the most expensive). We eat a lot of lintels, beans and rice (invest in a pressure cooker and rice cooker – yardsale). Many base the weekly menu on the weekly sales. Also, my wife cuts the hair in the family. We never buy our kids toys new from a store. But yet, we still have to regularly go through the toys and get rid of a bunch. Grandparents and aunts and uncles tend to overdue it when it comes to toys.

These are some things that came to my mind. As was already said, it is a lifestyle change. If you intend on maintaining a certain status image (a general comment - I am not suggesting that you would) then reconsider having a large family.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 16, 2006)

Okay, let me list things better....


We cloth diaper/wipes (this prevents health issues as well as saves money)

Breastfeed

(Ladies can PM me for other things that prevent health issues)

We don't vax (this prevents reactions that can be caused by or cause immune system issues...yes, it's controversial, but I did nearly lose a babe to a vax once, did my research, and this is our decision...I've noticed unvaxed kids get sick a whole lot less)

We don't buy unncessary paper products (paper towels, we use real towels...also creates less trash, less trash bags)

Live somewhere where food is cheap (especially if you have a large family)

If you have oppurtunity, get a trade under your belt

skip "home business ops" for your wife...you will only waste money on most of it and it will cut into your taxes at the end of the year...unless she is really able to put the time and mind into it. She would be better to barter with other women or keep a business that makes under the taxable amount.

Skip cable, gaming, tv, etc...if you want to buy DVD's, do it cheap...buy the used ones from rental places or yard sales.

Yard Sale, Thrift Store...there is no need to pay full price on most things (however, we no longer do used shoes...not good on growing feet)

Line Dry. Not only saves on electric bill...but the sun is a natural bleacher and is safe on colours if you don't leave your laundry out three days in a row...thus it also bleaches cloth diapers (don't use bleach on CDs, it's an irritant to baby).

Homeopathic remedies DO work. OTC remedies also work...just know what you are looking for.

Find a Dr that doesn't insist on an appointment EVERY STINKIN TIME. Many minor things can be consulted over the phone, prescribed over the phone, and many follow up appts are unneccessary (unless for a serious issue...but on colds and such...ugh!). This might not be possible though until a dr gets to know you or knows your family (ie., we have the same dr as extended family, including MIL who is a nurse).

We don't waste money on barber shops and beauty salons (not that I haven't ever or haven't used them when in a pinch). I cut the boys hair...and the girls...well we just grow ours and trim once in awhile.

Makeup, Jewelry is limited...saves money, is not neccessary...and really a girl only "needs" the basics.

Limit clothing...I'm so serious. Big families...laundry is an issue. Play clothes, good clothes.

Declutter and organize (this means limiting toys also...honestly, kids don't need every thing that comes out...we have games, puzzles, legos, blocks, farm, potato head, cars, and food/dishes/babydolls...I think that covers the basics. Markers are forbidden (I got tired of repainting walls)...crayons are under supervision...and chalk is awesome!

Homemade laundry soap...cheaper, goes farther, less allergens and irritants. Keep cleansers to the basics. The most basic is the cheapest...except for dish detergent, on that you will spend more buying the cheapest.

Paper or plastic? Plastic is recyclable into trash liners. Paper if you are doing a project with the kids. Many ppl are using heavy duty canvas bags (thus rejecting the "paper or plastic" store offers...however, some stores have harrassed ppl who bring their own canvas bags).

I have in a case of living in a speck of a town, no washer/dryer, no laundrymat...done my laundry in the tub. It's possible (basically what our ancesters did)...a pain, but possible...fortunately I only had one babe at the time (I so don't want to go there again!).

If I think of more...I'll post. These are ideas...some will like them, some won't.

(and apparently I cross posted with someone...LOL)

[Edited on 10-16-2006 by LadyFlynt]


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## RamistThomist (Oct 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Romans922_
> You hate Lost too, huh?



Caught me?!! LOL! No, I am a Lost junkie. That's it, though. My friends TVo it for me.


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## LadyCalvinist (Oct 16, 2006)

One thing I learned from my parents, Use Coupons. Also, unless it's absolutely necessary, don't buy anything that isn't on sale.


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## JohnV (Oct 16, 2006)

Jacob:

Colleen makes some good points. I would second most of what she says. (Don't know about vaccines, though; around here its the law, and you can't get away with not doing it.) There's so much to advise you about big families. I would say that the most important thing to do is to know your core values, the heirarchy of values, very well, and then to hold on to them no matter what. The financial cost of it is only part of it, the social cost is also quite great.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 16, 2006)

What John says is so true. You really have to take your stand and dig your heels in. Being there for your kids and raising them in a Godly manner (and this is regardless of family size) is the prime thing. But yes, large families do have different dynamics.


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## Anton Bruckner (Oct 16, 2006)

Colleen is almost Amish  She's the Proverbs 31 woman. Making your own laundry soap. man, dat is brutal:bigsmile:


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 16, 2006)

Actually you'd be amazed that the Amish DON"T make their own soap, they buy disposable diapers, etc.


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## JohnV (Oct 16, 2006)

There are the little things like that, for sure. I used to save up loonies and toonies (coins that replaced our $1 and $2 bills.) Every time I got one in my pocket I would do my very best not to spend it, and to put it in a secret spot as soon as I got home. (I still do that, as a matter of fact.) I used to figure that, by the time I've dont that for a number of years I would have quite a stash. But if you do that for twenty of so years, you'll have no more in that stash than you have right now. However you choose to put money aside, you can count on it that some matter will come up that will require you to use whatever you have saved up. I've even kept my goals to a minimum, just saving up for birthdays and so on. But it's always the same: something comes up that you really need that money for. And it is never for frivolous things either. 

But one time I did manage to save enough to buy my wife a camcorder, which she wanted so much to capture those family moments we treasured so much. It was very hard to do, but it actually happened. Since then, I haven't been able to save more than sixty dollars.


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## MW (Oct 16, 2006)

I'd offer you my two cents if I didn't think this was woman's business. One piece of wisdom which has put me in good stead -- as the children grow, if you have a prudent wife, don't interfere and make life harder for her. It is amazing how much easier it makes things to recognise her sovereignty in her sphere.


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## Augusta (Oct 16, 2006)

You can save alot just on food if you make things from scratch. I don't buy pre-packaged anything. Not even Campbell's soup. We make our own cream of chicken or tomato etc. If you keep a stock of the basics you can make anything. We Costco shop and get bulk of everything at the lower prices. This keeps the food budget low. 

I love, love, love the thrift store. We get really great stuff there. Electronics, home furnishings like lamps, chairs etc. I got an almost new Oreck vacuum there it just needed a belt. You can find great kids clothes way cheap. I get a lot of bed sheets and clothes for me there too. I also recently got a cargo storage thing for the van for camping. They run $300 and up, got it for $24.99. 

Never call a plumber or electrician unless it is dire. I have a Sunset fix it book that has saved us numerous times. I has instuctions for all appliances and other household type things. 

Oh and now there is Craigslist.com. You can find all kinds of free things or very cheap things. 

Also find out how much your electricity is at certain times of the day because it varies. Peak times it's more per kilowatt hr. Really late or really early it is cheaper. You can run your washer and dryer then. 

Save anything worth saving and take care of it. You won't have to buy another one.


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## ReederKidsMom (Oct 17, 2006)

I have found lots of ways to save money for our family.
My husband says I am great at garbage picking! He used to be embarrased, now he will say, the house down the street is throwing a lot of stuff away. I will go out and look.

Just recently I was able to get a wonderful dresser for our newest addition due in 4 weeks. It was older, with scratches, but there is nothing wrong with it. I knocked on the door and the guys told me his daughter wanted something new. I don't care, it holds clothes, and can be painted if I want to take the time.

I could go, on and on with all the stuff I have just picked out of the trash. It really isn't trash. We used to have a Bulk day in NJ that was amazing, and honestly really sad at what people just trashed.

There are even a few websited where people list there FREE stuff. You just have to go and pick it up. Those sites are: 

www.Freecycle.org

http://www.craigslist.org/about/cities.html 

(find your city and then go to FREE)

It's amazing some of the stuff that you can get for Free here.

It's also a chance to be a blessing to someone else.


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 17, 2006)

Just to clarify: my wife is not a raccoon.

By “garbage,” she means bulk items set along the curb for the taking.


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## Laura (Oct 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Just to clarify: my wife is not a raccoon.
> 
> By “garbage,” she means bulk items set along the curb for the taking.



 How sweet.

Thanks for asking the question, Jacob! I have reaped the benefits myself. It is difficult enough to "plan for the future" in this way when you grew up in a four-person family where home management only entered your mind when the Barbies came out to play house, but trying to live intentionally in an apartment with no responsibilities except for yourself is . . . not ideal. This has been very helpful---thanks, all.


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## ReederKidsMom (Oct 18, 2006)

Just another example. Someone on Craiglist.org just ten miles away, is giving away three bags of clothes all in my daughter's size. All FREE.


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## DadOf15 (Oct 23, 2006)

We have used most of everything stated by previous posters. The most important bit of advice is not to listen to the culture. It is NOT a right of children to have their college paid for by their parents. It is NOT a right of every child to have their own bedroom. It is NOT a right of every child to have their own cell phone, TV, stereo, walkman, etc. ad infintum.  

It actually teaches them responsibility to have to pay for such things on their own. We've noticed that our children appreciate what they have paid for on their own, much more than those children of other families, who had everything given to them.

Freecycle is a great place to get stuff. Just this past weekend we got a drum set for our 14 year old son who wants to take drum lessons.

If you are willing to go against the tide, and do without a lot of things that the culture tells you "you just have to have!", then raising a large family can be very exciting, and rewarding. As we've always told people - there is never a dull moment in our household.


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## Bladestunner316 (Oct 23, 2006)

WOW all I need to do is consult Colleen when I want to start a family


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## QueenEsther (Oct 24, 2006)

DadOf15 said:


> If you are willing to go against the tide, and do without a lot of things that the culture tells you "you just have to have!", then raising a large family can be very exciting, and rewarding. As we've always told people - there is never a dull moment in our household.



I can imagine, there are 7 people in my house and we're always intertained, five year olds give great advice... sometimes ;-)


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## rwinger61 (Oct 25, 2006)

Draught Horse said:


> As someone who hopes the Lord blesses him with many arrows, and as one who realizes that our familiy will probably be single income, what are some bits of wisdom from those of you with big families on budgeting, buying wisely, and __________ (I was looking for another word that started with "b" but couldn't find one)?
> 
> Thanks,



My advice right off is "Be careful". As you know, this culture is not pro big family. We have 9, but four are now grown and out of the house. We had little help from our extended family and churches we were involved with, and when we decided to homeschool back in the early 90's our church ask me (the assistant pastor) to leave. We struggled financially and spiritually for several years and our family nearly fell apart. 

I remember thinking the same regarding many arrows - but there can be a price if you are not prepared for it.


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## RamistThomist (Oct 25, 2006)

rwinger61 said:


> My advice right off is "Be careful". As you know, this culture is not pro big family. We have 9, but four are now grown and out of the house. We had little help from our extended family and churches we were involved with, and when we decided to homeschool back in the early 90's our church ask me (the assistant pastor) to leave. We struggled financially and spiritually for several years and our family nearly fell apart.
> 
> I remember thinking the same regarding many arrows - but there can be a price if you are not prepared for it.




I'm aware. Thank you for sharing that, though. I have no delusions or naievete about a big family.


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## kvanlaan (Oct 25, 2006)

*practical suggestions*

Funny that this should come up now.

I was at the farmer's market this morning at 5:15am and bought 220 lbs of apples for $18.

My wife will make 1/3 of them into applesauce and applebutter (to be canned) and I will take the rest to grind and press for cider (the press and grinder both made out of junk wood and steel). REALLY tasty. We have a small room under the stairs which is rapidly filling with canned goods and bulk bought items. There is a ham in our second fridge steeped in brine and this evening I am digging a hole for a firepit to get started on making a smoker for the ham. All will be made of junkyard pickings. The point is, we will have a 15-lb. brined ham ready to eat for about $10. Not bad.

Beyond this, we are rather frugal. We homeschool, and my wife tutors a student in our home once a week as well as teaching an art class at the local Christian school once a week. One of our girls always goes with as an aide. We have four children now (Esther - 9, Joseph - 8, Hannah - 6, and Izaak - 3) but the fifth (Anneliese) will be here by mid-December, D.V. We hope for many more.

Buy bulk and preserve it yourself. That saves a bunch. In the last 2 weeks, I've bought about 500 lbs of produce, most to be put up for the winter (total cost, $45). We have a garden, 2 rabbits, 7 laying hens, and a small pig (no wasted leftovers, and you get to eat this trash compactor in January.) We DON'T live in the country but in a city of 10 million with very understanding neighbours. Our lot size is no more than 30' x 80', by my rough reckoning. It ain't purdy, but it works...

I highly recommend Carla Emery's 'Encyclopedia of Country Living' for practical suggestions.


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## kvanlaan (Oct 27, 2006)

By the way, though the scrimping and saving and lack of trips home does at times get to me (we've now been in-country since Oct. 03 without a trip back), I would not exchange it for the world. The funny looks, the comments about Joseph (he's rather hard of hearing and is missing an eye) are God-given opportunities to witness to the locals here. 

We are SO richly blessed that we cannot even begin to comprehend it.


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## Augusta (Oct 27, 2006)

kvanlaan said:


> Funny that this should come up now.
> 
> I was at the farmer's market this morning at 5:15am and bought 220 lbs of apples for $18.
> 
> ...




Pressed cider is wonderful.   Sounds like a great little mini-farm. I wish we had a bigger lot.


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## Ivan (Oct 27, 2006)

This is an awesome thread! Reminds me a lot of my parents way of living, at least when my sisters and I were at home. My parents are living the easy life now! LOL


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## a mere housewife (Oct 27, 2006)

Colleen, how exactly does one make laundry soap? (I know you can make toothpaste with baking soda and salt). 

I have only four brothers and sisters but my dad was going through seminary and my mom had to budget to the dime. We were allowed to have milk on the cereal or milk in the cup. Sandwich meat or cheese on the sandwich, not both (my dad used to rebel once in a while and make us all towering sandwiches with real cheddar cheese and ham and olives and tomatoes). My mom went yard saling almost every week: most of our toys were from yardsales (and we loved them). We almost never ate out, or bought snacks at gas stations on trips etc. My mom took sandwiches, but also Lucky Charms or something we didn't normally get-- which made trips very much a treat. We ate casseroles constantly: you can use less meat in them. My mom would take us to play on the playgrounds at fast food places, and get herself a coffee and keep getting it (free) refilled so that we were 'customers'. We didn't even know we were what some people considered 'poor'. But one time my brother asked my mom for a nickle and she burst into tears. I would agree with Mr. Winzer though: if my dad went shopping with my mom they came home with more than we could afford. He only very rarely went shopping with her.


I do think it's very important to be organized. There is a tendency to accumulate so much stuff because it's cheap or free that you sacrifice time, energy, efficiency, general household order-- and it can become very depressing for a woman especially who spends all her time in it. Spending some money initially on organizers of some sort, and getting rid of things that are just cluttering up the place, refusing to pick up ugly things that will bother you just because they're free is worth it for the sanity. Also it's good to remember that God is a King, and look how royally He clothes the lilies. If you need real butter for your health, or your wife has to be taken to dinner, even though that means a babysitter too-- He is a King and His subjects don't need to be stingy.


Also my parents were always very generous to others. They were hospitable to absolutely anyone, and they gave whatever they had to give if they knew anyone had a need. They still do.

PS. I forgot-- audiobooksforfree.com has lots of classic children's books read aloud that you can download for free and burn to cd. Hours of wonderful enjoyment: we always loved being read to.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 28, 2006)

1 cp Borax
1 cp washing soda (arm and hammer has this)
3 drops (becareful not to pour this) of Tea Tree Oil or Lavendar Oil (these are antimicrobial...helps with both the laundry and keeping the detergent from 'going bad')
shred and melt 1 bar of soap (your choice...fels, bath soap, homemade bar soap) in a pan of water
mix all in 3-5 gallons of water (get one of those big buckets)
pour into old detergent bottles


It will not create the amount of suds the store bought does and it is gentler to sensitive skin.


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## kvanlaan (Oct 28, 2006)

I've gotta say, I love this sort of thread too - very practical. To me, it's the icing on the cake for our family. To bring children into a walk with their Saviour and give them a sense of self reliance with a decent work ethic to boot is a magnificent thing. The only problem is that the kids will never learn to work any harder than Mom and Dad demonstrate to them. Adds a little something to a carpentry project with the boys...


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## a mere housewife (Oct 30, 2006)

Colleen, that sounds fairly easy, actually: and it being easier on sensitive skin is nice. Thanks.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 30, 2006)

BTW, I can't hardly stand toothpaste anymore...gags me. I use plain baking soda. My teeth feel cleaner and I deal with bad breath days less.


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## Mrs.SolaFide (Oct 31, 2006)

Colleen

I recently began using baking soda & my teeth have never felt cleaner - and it's cheap! Plus, I prefer a salty taste to a sweet taste any day...

Here in Wichita we have an ALDI ("discount" chain of sorts) grocer. I cut my monthly food spending by 40-50% when I started doing the bulk of our shopping there. Ditto to the Farmer's Markets. Sometimes it's more expensive but sometimes you can get great prices on fresh produce...and it's sometimes helpful to keep in mind that you can pay now (a little more $$ for healthier food than fast/easy food) or pay later in missed work due to illness, health problems later in life, etc. You can also purchase many household items at Dollar Stores, Dollar Trees, etc. cheaper than at Wal-Mart, Target, etc. And I regularly receive compliments on outfits that I purchased at the Goodwill


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## BJClark (Oct 31, 2006)

My daughters have learned consignment shopping...

They put some clothes on consignment and then use the income they earn to purchase other clothes at the same store.


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