# You will Throw Up When You See this SIte



## C. Matthew McMahon (Sep 11, 2003)

www.geocities.com/calvinismheresy


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## blhowes (Sep 11, 2003)

[b:2262f6bf50]You will throw up when you see this site.[/b:2262f6bf50]

Because of the graphics...the written content...or both? I'd say both. 

Its difficult to understand how people can believe that stuff and square it with what they read in the scriptures (assuming they're reading the scriptures). I read a little bit of the article that compared Calvinism with Arminianism. I read how Calvinists were misrepresented when they said that Calvinists believe that all babies will be thrown into hell. I read about how Arminians believe that, since we aren't born with original sin, that all babies will go to heaven. At that point, I figured I've learned enough for one night.

My stomach's feeling a little wheezy, so I better run.

Later,
Bob


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## Fly Caster (Sep 11, 2003)

Someone has way too much time on his hands... and needs to spend a little of it reading his bible.


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## George Bailey (Sep 11, 2003)

*This is probably wrong of me...*

but when I read his &quot;open letter to a Calvinist&quot; I actually burst out laughing. Yes, I know it's sad when someone is spiritually darkened, but I'm sorry...I thought that I was reading an article from larknews.com!


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## Fly Caster (Sep 11, 2003)

George, I got a kick out of that one too. Thought some of his arguments sounded like something a flaming liberal would use:flaming:


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## fredtgreco (Sep 11, 2003)

This is an example of the complete foolishness of this site, which is more interested in attacking Calvin, than in confessing a unified and inspired Bible:

[quote:17b5259604]4. OK, OK, the apostle Paul does seem Calvinist.

I will grant you that. Paul seems to have been a Calvinist (out of season of course). In fact, maybe there were even &quot;denominations&quot; of sort in the first century church. Not denominations as we know them, but certainly various doctrinal strains. At least there is a &quot;Jerusalem&quot; strain and a Pauline strain. If you really want to play the Bible trump game go ahead and play your Pauline cards, and I'lltrump each one with a John, or Peter or James and especially Jesus as presented in the gospels. And I'llhold Hebrews up my sleeve for later use. I know this &quot;dual doctrinal strain&quot; notion makes you gasp, but if you are going to insist that your notions are &quot;Scriptural&quot; then I insist that mine are too... now what shall we do? Revise the canon? Which brings me to my next thought.

7. Lets use reason, philosophy and theology too, OK?

Tossing our favorite proof texts back and forth really doesn't get us anywhere. I am more interested in talking about philosophy and theology in a reasonable way. I know you don't like that, you'd rather say &quot;But, I'mBiblical&quot; (implying that I'mnot) but let's engage in a discussion on these higher levels. let's admit that our proof-text lists produce nothing more than a draw (given our own tinted glasses through which we read them). So lets talk about God's nature, and His character. let's talk about natural revelation and have a good discussion on the justice, mercy and holiness of God. Let's extract our theology out of what we know of God, not just our two favorite lists of proof texts. I'mafraid that most of this discussion has been in knee deep water of favorite verses. let's go out into the deeper waters and talk of deeper things. Or will you complain that we are &quot;leaving the Bible behind?&quot;
[/quote:17b5259604]

[Edited on 9-12-2003 by fredtgreco]


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## humble_soul (Sep 12, 2003)

Interestingly enough, I found that site the other day myself. I must admit, it had some stomach wrenching graphics and content.

It's easy to understand why people hate Calvin/Calvinism. People hate the truth of God worse than they hate anything else, I figure. That's how one could spend so much time creating a site like that.


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## Puritan Sailor (Sep 12, 2003)

I can't throw up any more, I'm just left with dry heaves 
I have family who try to throw websites like this at me to get me to &quot;consider both sides of the issue.&quot;
This guy wishes to meet on &quot;middle ground&quot; but there is none. There is only a vast unbreachable chasm. It is salvation by grace vs. salvation by works. And if they wish to interact, then they need to inform themselves of what Calvinists really believe. 
Enough! I've wasted enough time an garbage like that.
Oh, what does Saturn devouring his children have anything to do with Calvinism? 

Puritan Sailor


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## PASSION4TRUTH (Sep 12, 2003)

Throw up? I almost wanted to cut my finger off and sacrifice it to Saturn on behalf of the Calvinist haters. I am a million point calvinist because its the truth and the gospel. just gimme da word and i will call it whatever you want. I agree with spurgeon, calvinism is the gospel. grace or works.....take your choice!


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## knight4christ8 (Sep 13, 2003)

*...and with that*

my brothers have expressed my deepest feelings toward this issue with vivid imagery and sarcastic linguistics. Though I am not too sure that Saturn would accept your finger PASSION. He didn't look like that would satisfy him. You might have to sacrifice your SELF or perhaps burn yourself at the stake in repentance for following this &quot;murderer&quot; in Christian thought. 

My only reply: Another support for [b:95ce3f8d06]TOTAL DEPRAVITY![/b:95ce3f8d06]:biggrin:

Knight :wr41:


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## bigheavyq (Dec 21, 2003)

:wr30:
As usual the entire site makes a calvinist straw man, cooks him, then eats him.

Question: how is a novice christian seeking to understand the calvinistic/arminianist controversy when each side says the other is damnable heresy(read Dave hunt's new book at most christian bookstores:thumbdown?
I mean it would be easy to side with the arminians since most people think in humanistic/individualistic terms and carnal man is naturally pelagian. Our churches even many so- called reformed have bought into a humanistic theology. the most consistent of these being the faith and positive confession movements which are most heretical and dominate &quot;christian&quot; tv. I for one find it is hard to pray for the church at large because they have thrown away the blueprint for what the church is supposed to be in a time-space world.

frusted warrior


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## cupotea (Dec 21, 2003)

I like how &quot;Calvinism Refuted by the Bible&quot; is &quot;coming soon&quot;... I think that's a euphemism for &quot;well, there isn't really biblical support for what we're saying, but we sure do like to pretend there could be, and if we leave this up, maybe some of you will think there is too!&quot;
Right. I consider myself liberal but... that's seriously wacky doctrine over there. Just no.


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## MICWARFIELD (Dec 21, 2003)

Here's another one. I'm sure some of you are familiar with Dan Corner.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/

Mike


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## puritanpilgrim (Dec 23, 2003)

[quote:a2fa685f91]
Oh, what does Saturn devouring his children have anything to do with Calvinism?
[/quote:a2fa685f91]

Amen


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## puritanpilgrim (Dec 23, 2003)

[quote:3680e8e70b]
The Believer's Conditional Security
BY DAN CORNER
The most exhaustive and comprehensive refutation to the teaching of once saved, always saved that has ever been written! This book will NOT be refuted.
[/quote:3680e8e70b]


Whatever. They should call this book &quot;I did it myself.&quot; 

Why don't they refute John Owen, if they are so estute.

Link

[Edited on 12-23-2003 by puritanpilgrim]


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 23, 2003)

[quote:230d05f530][i:230d05f530]Originally posted by puritanpilgrim[/i:230d05f530]
[quote:230d05f530]
The Believer's Conditional Security
BY DAN CORNER
The most exhaustive and comprehensive refutation to the teaching of once saved, always saved that has ever been written! This book will NOT be refuted.
[/quote:230d05f530]


Whatever.

Link [/quote:230d05f530]

The irony for me is that as typically articulated, I too disagree with the popular notion of &quot;once saved always saved.&quot; I find the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints to be much more biblically defensible. 

I think that the mainstream evangelical notion of &quot;once saved always saved&quot; is an invention to comfort and soothe the family members of deceased apostates.

[Edited on 12-23-2003 by SolaScriptura]


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## puritanpilgrim (Dec 23, 2003)

Then you would love that book.


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 23, 2003)

Yeah... I'm sure I would find it to be a real hoot!


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## The0 (Dec 24, 2003)

Where are the articles on TULIP??? :shocked:

I must re-read them to reaffirm my beliefs! I felt that for every 10 minutes I spent reading the articles on this site (www.geocities.com/calvinismheresy), I was going down in points!!!

Five, four, three...

Where's my Duane Spencer's TULIP??? AAAAAAAAAAAARRRGH! HERE IT ISSSSSSSS! It's great that it's short and sweet!

:roll:

The0.


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## cupotea (Dec 24, 2003)

Whoa... TheO, what just happened there?


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## The0 (Dec 24, 2003)

That site almost convinced me! 


NOOOT! Just kidding. I found a site whose owner (L. Ray Smith) believes that EVERYONE will be saved in the end. He wrote a letter to James Kennedy and John Hagee refuting their preaching/teaching on hell, how hell torment will not be eternal but just for an age (eon). He states that God's plan is for God to be &quot;All in all.&quot; (I Cor. 15:28). Here is part of that letter's conclusion:

Conclusion

God is sovereign. God is all wise and all knowing. He is all powerful and almighty. And God is LOVE. He has a plan, a purpose, a will. He is carrying out that plan. He has set man against His own will while He carries out His intentions which absolutely no one can withstand. To know good, one must have an experience of evil. God created evil (Isa. 45:7). It is only temporary. He has given an experience of evil to mankind to humble him thereby (Ecc. 3:10). It will be completely successful. God has called a privileged few to understand His plan now. He will call and enlighten everyone else later. Death cannot separate God from His love for them. There is coming a resurrection of the dead. All of the dead. They will be taught the truths of God and God will be their saviour.

Evil and death will be abolished (I Cor. 15:26, II Tim. 1:10, Rev. 21:4). The culmination of this portion of God's plan is for God to be &quot;All in all.&quot; (I Cor. 15:28). Other than this one Scripture, God tells us nothing concerning our future with Him beyond the eons or His plans for eternity. We trust Him in faith that it will be as He says:

&quot;That which the eye did not perceive, and the ear did not hear, and to which the heart of man did not ascend-whatever God makes ready for those who are loving Him&quot; (I Cor. 2:9)

And, of course,

&quot; ... those who are loving Him&quot; will include all humanity and all in the heavens&quot; (Phil. 2:11).

The web address is Exposing Those Who Contradict&quot;

In Christ,

The0.


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## cupotea (Dec 24, 2003)

Wow... but that website was so logical and convincing (kidding!)!


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## The0 (Dec 25, 2003)

Which one? http://bible-truths.com/ or the one on Calvin? To be honest with you, the former (http://bible-truths.com/) is very convincing to me.

The0.


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## puritanpilgrim (Dec 26, 2003)

did anyone ever figure out what &quot;Saturn eating his children&quot; had to do with calvinism? :wr50:


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## Puritan Sailor (Dec 26, 2003)

[quote:398a516d8f][i:398a516d8f]Originally posted by puritanpilgrim[/i:398a516d8f]
did anyone ever figure out what &quot;Saturn eating his children&quot; had to do with calvinism? :wr50: [/quote:398a516d8f]

It's just a ploy at mental manipulation and deception. The image is fixed in the mind so that whenever you think of Calvinism you see that picture in your head and associate it with evil. I wish there were some honest Arminians out there who would really be open to discussion and not burning down strawmen. But I guess those guys wouldn't stay Arminian long  It really shows how weak their arguments are when they have to resort to slander and deception in order to make their case.


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## calgal (Dec 27, 2003)

[quote:71e8c32727][i:71e8c32727]Originally posted by MICWARFIELD[/i:71e8c32727]
Here's another one. I'm sure some of you are familiar with Dan Corner.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/

Mike [/quote:71e8c32727]

All I can say about Dan is &quot;What a Maroon!&quot; :roll: All they can come up with is Servetus?

[Edited on 12-27-2003 by calgal]


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## calgal (Dec 27, 2003)

[quote:01edfe9e99][i:01edfe9e99]Originally posted by blhowes[/i:01edfe9e99]
[b:01edfe9e99]You will throw up when you see this site.[/b:01edfe9e99]

Because of the graphics...the written content...or both? I'd say both. 

Its difficult to understand how people can believe that stuff and square it with what they read in the scriptures (assuming they're reading the scriptures). I read a little bit of the article that compared Calvinism with Arminianism. I read how Calvinists were misrepresented when they said that Calvinists believe that all babies will be thrown into hell. I read about how Arminians believe that, since we aren't born with original sin, that all babies will go to heaven. At that point, I figured I've learned enough for one night.

My stomach's feeling a little wheezy, so I better run.

Later,
Bob [/quote:01edfe9e99]

That was insane and sad. I don't feel well now. And what a lovely witness of Christ that site is! :shocked2: It reminds me of Pagan sites for some reason. :wr30:

[Edited on 12-27-2003 by calgal]


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## Wrigley (Dec 27, 2003)

[quote:72e88ee102][i:72e88ee102]Originally posted by calgal[/i:72e88ee102]
[quote:72e88ee102][i:72e88ee102]Originally posted by MICWARFIELD[/i:72e88ee102]
Here's another one. I'm sure some of you are familiar with Dan Corner.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/

Mike [/quote:72e88ee102]

All I can say about Dan is &quot;What a Maroon!&quot; :roll: All they can come up with is Servetus?

[Edited on 12-27-2003 by calgal] [/quote:72e88ee102]


Hey, gal, I see you found this interesting thread too.


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## calgal (Dec 28, 2003)

[quote:eb60851290][i:eb60851290]Originally posted by Wrigley[/i:eb60851290]
[quote:eb60851290][i:eb60851290]Originally posted by calgal[/i:eb60851290]
[quote:eb60851290][i:eb60851290]Originally posted by MICWARFIELD[/i:eb60851290]
Here's another one. I'm sure some of you are familiar with Dan Corner.

http://www.evangelicaloutreach.org/

Mike [/quote:eb60851290]

All I can say about Dan is &quot;What a Maroon!&quot; :roll: All they can come up with is Servetus?

[Edited on 12-27-2003 by calgal] [/quote:eb60851290]


Hey, gal, I see you found this interesting thread too. [/quote:eb60851290]

Yes I did! Hi Wrigley!


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## rnmomof7 (Dec 29, 2003)

[quote:b8ba4466c4]
I think that the mainstream evangelical notion of &quot;once saved always saved&quot; is an invention to comfort and soothe the family members of deceased apostates.

[Edited on 12-23-2003 by SolaScriptura] [/quote:b8ba4466c4]

The &quot;doctrine OSAS&quot; is inconsistent with their teaching on free will.
I find it almost humorous that they in anyway find it to be &quot;1 point&quot;


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## rnmomof7 (Dec 29, 2003)

[quote:793d2101fe][i:793d2101fe]Originally posted by Scarlet[/i:793d2101fe]
I like how &quot;Calvinism Refuted by the Bible&quot; is &quot;coming soon&quot;... I think that's a euphemism for &quot;well, there isn't really biblical support for what we're saying, but we sure do like to pretend there could be, and if we leave this up, maybe some of you will think there is too!&quot;
Right. I consider myself liberal but... that's seriously wacky doctrine over there. Just no. [/quote:793d2101fe]

I think I have met the author on another site..he is as deep and wide as a puddle after a shower.


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## Sola_Scriptura (Jan 8, 2004)

So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 
(2. Peter 3:15-18)


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## Puritan Sailor (Jan 8, 2004)

[quote:bcab426826][i:bcab426826]Originally posted by Sola_Scriptura[/i:bcab426826]
So also our beloved brother Paul wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, 16 speaking of this as he does in all his letters. There are some things in them hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other scriptures. 17 You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, beware lest you be carried away with the error of lawless men and lose your own stability. 18 But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 
(2. Peter 3:15-18) [/quote:bcab426826]

I can not tell you how many times Arminians preface their arguments against the Reformed Faith with that passage. Yet are the ones doing the hermeneutical gymnastics, &quot;Well, Paul didn't mean it that way... etc.&quot;


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## turmeric (Jan 12, 2004)

*James Kennedy & John Hagee*

That has to be the first time I've ever seen THOSE two guys names in the same sentence!:biggrin:


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## JasonGoodwin (Feb 22, 2005)

Yes, I absolutely agree that the site was quite disturbing (and that is an understatement). I feel like they are woefully trying to rebuild Jericho. (I read some Scripture reference to that a long time ago in an article by Spurgeon, but I can't find it). John Owen said it best about these guys by quoting Is. 45:9. Also, this is nothing new and it is not going to go away in the foreseeable future. cf.Eccl. 1:10. Once again, they are beating a


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## Poimen (Mar 4, 2005)

What does this mean?

"Calvinism is not accidentally but essentially immoral, since it makes the distinction between right and wrong a matter of positive enactment, and thereby makes it possible to assert that what is immoral of man is moral for God, because He is above morality."

Is God bound to some truth or principle outside Himself? If so does that not make Him not God? Aren't His ways not our ways? Is He not the Creator and we the creatures?

Didn't Martin Luther say it well: "Let God be God!"


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Mar 4, 2005)

I am not sure if someone has shown this link before - http://www.geocities.com/calvinismheresy/thussaith.html - but it is so silly it is funny. It is a so called "Scriptural Refutation" of Calvinism but I can not find scripture really mentioned at all! No scripture is even quoted


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## Ivan (Mar 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by humble_soul_
> It's easy to understand why people hate Calvin/Calvinism. People hate the truth of God worse than they hate anything else, I figure.



You figure correctly.


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