# Evolution



## the Internet (Apr 24, 2009)

Evolution, the theory espoused by CD, is a religion. This is so because it is believed and worshipped without scientific proof of verifiable facts, and because the belief in the same leads to a proliferation of sub-doctrines that permeate the believers philosophy and worldview. Nature itself might be thought the 'god'.

I do not believe evolution, or any part thereof [except the word 'the' on the footnote of page 47], but have many Christian friends and peers that hold to a variety of mixes. These beliefs are ultimately made possible by the complete destruction of the context of 'a day is a thousand years' and a non-literal interpretation of the 7 days of creation. I am a literal creationist.

Do others know Christians like this? Can a Christian believe in evolution? What are the really great defenses/arguments used to disprove evolution?


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## ColdSilverMoon (Apr 24, 2009)

the Internet said:


> Evolution, the theory espoused by CD, is a religion. This is so because it is believed and worshipped without scientific proof of verifiable facts, and because the belief in the same leads to a proliferation of sub-doctrines that permeate the believers philosophy and worldview. Nature itself might be thought the 'god'.
> 
> I do not believe evolution, or any part thereof [except the word 'the' on the footnote of page 47], but have many Christian friends and peers that hold to a variety of mixes. These beliefs are ultimately made possible by the complete destruction of the context of 'a day is a thousand years' and a non-literal interpretation of the 7 days of creation. I am a literal creationist.
> 
> Do others know Christians like this? Can a Christian believe in evolution? *What are the really great defenses/arguments used to disprove evolution?*



Just study evolution/biology long enough and it becomes obvious it requires more faith to believe that all life evolved from carbon atoms than to believe it was created by God. I double majored in Biochemistry and Biology in college, so I had plenty of evolutionary course work - I was never more convinced of the folly of evolution than in those classes.

Having said that, there are many components of Darwinian evolution that are completely valid - in fact, I would say most evolutionary concepts are valid and observable. The problem arises when atheists attempt to extrapolate these principles to say all life evolved through evolutionary mechanisms, from basic organic molecules billions of years ago to the present biosphere. Honestly, nothing could be more absurd. Just start with the first biomolecules - the odds of these forming "spontaneously" is almost infinitely remote. The theory only gets harder to support from there.


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## ChariotsofFire (Apr 24, 2009)

The worldview a person holds will dramatically affect the way they see the origin of life. An atheist does not believe in God so the way an atheist inteprets the scientific evidence will generally be consistent with that worldview. A Christian will see the evidence in the creation around them, and will interpret the scientific evidence in light of God's Word. One article I found helpful in understanding the creation evolution debate.

What?s the best ?proof? of creation? - Answers in Genesis


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## Repre5entYHWH (Apr 25, 2009)

evolution has a huge impact on the Gospel. 

for one we wouldn't be made in the image of God
and if death came before sin than we don't have a basic for the gospel
if we don't believe the Bible until many chapters later when can we start believing it? 
Jesus took genesis as literal so should we 

but we must differentiate between micro and macro evolution or we just look dumb.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Apr 25, 2009)

Define evolution?

If you are talking about creation then yes I am a creationist.

But I also realize that biologically things do evolve. We have bred dogs to develop certain traits. We have revolutionized farming by the development of enhanced wheats and grains. This has all happened by breeding for traits that we want, while setting aside those that we don't.

Some people of course would say we shouldn't mess with God's creation. So I will show a different example: HIV. Once inside someone the HIV virus will replicate itself until it is everywhere. Every time it replicates there is a change. Something is missed out. Something is added in. It is just bad at copying itself. This means that over months or years the HIV virus inside someone can take on a life of its own distinct from that in others.

So what is the result of this? At first the HIV virus in the US found its way through the homosexual community. Because they didn't practice "safe" sex it spread like wildfire. The average victim had 1,100 sexual partners. It was very deadly. Because people would have sex and pass it on to someone else, the virus could afford to be quick-acting. However, when the "safe sex" message got out there, it took longer and longer for the virus to find its way to a new client body. The earlier violent strands quickly killed people before they could pass it on. Only those strands of HIV that had through genetic mutation become slower acting (more docile) would keep their victim alive long enough to pass it on. Thus over time increasing AIDS awareness has led to even more stringent advice and following of "safe" sex. The HIV virus has then been forced to evolve to take longer and longer to kill. Any mutation that kills quickly will just kill its client and never make the leap into someone else. Thus only those viruses that bide their time will now claim another person.

This example is 100% verifiable. It has been happening since the 1980s in the laboratories (although if I am correct our first genetic samples come from the late 1940s) and seen through our hospital system. It shows how something through "natural selection" has moved from being one thing into being another thing. This has been in the space of 30 years, but it is not hard to see then how over 3,000 years dogs have become what they are today, or how chickens have been created (can't remember where they started out but it wasn't like they are now).

Evolutionists (capital E) have simply taken this small biological fact and applied it as a theory to the creation of the Life.


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## Webservant (Apr 25, 2009)

Why does evolution have to imply random origin for life? God, in His wisdom, created organisms which can adapt and change, if needed. 

Look around at the diversity of dogs - WE did that. Diversity doesn't point away from intelligence - it points towards it.


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## EricP (Apr 25, 2009)

Evolution discussions depend heavily on definition of terms--the micro evolution described by Fraser (HIV, bacteria vs. antibiotics, etc) is well established and generally non-controversial; and it has NOTHING to do with the macro-evolution worshipped by Darwinian evolutionists. Having been raised an atheist by atheist parents, I'd have to agree with Josh that world view is critical when interpreting the facts of life, death, space, etc. As a former evolutionist, I can say that we always stopped at "first cause" type reductio arguments--that is, point to the big bang hypothesis, and say "voila!", yet never even try to explain where the big bang knot of ectoplasm came from; we just didn't get there. Now knowing the truth of creation, it was a less than intellectually honest, rather wimpy approach. So, can Christians believe in true Darwinian macro evolution, with intermediate forms, survival of the fittest and other forms of species/genus level wholesale changes (BTW the ones for which there still seems to be no real evidence)--I'd suggest that Scripture's answer here is reliable and true, unlike the Darwinian cult.


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## Repre5entYHWH (Apr 25, 2009)

> And God said, “Let the earth bring forth living creatures according to their kinds—livestock and creeping things and beasts of the earth according to their kinds.



without this noah would not have been able to put all the animals on the boat. 

Dogs produce Dog kind and so forth ... but whales do not produce Dog kind (no joke that is what they think)


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