# Blue Collar living or White?



## staythecourse (Dec 2, 2006)

Not idle theory here. Gathering info for a LT commitment to life vocation. I am being convinced by various Scripture (and if need be some saints lives) blue collar livings please God more than white (if I may use short hand I know we all generally understand)

For example: "Work with your own hands" comes up more than once in NT. Too literal an interp? Let's talk about this some. Thanks.


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## turmeric (Dec 2, 2006)

Some "white collar" people, like doctors, work with their hands. Also, we do need corporate, government, and legal workers.


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2006)

staythecourse said:


> Not idle theory here. Gathering info for a LT commitment to life vocation. I am being convinced by various Scripture (and if need be some saints lives) blue collar livings please God more than white (if I may use short hand I know we all generally understand)
> 
> For example: "Work with your own hands" comes up more than once in NT. Too literal an interp? Let's talk about this some. Thanks.



I suspect that's much too literal an interpretation. 

1. Look at the context in which such quotations come up. What were the authors saying by those statements? Usually, (Eph. 4:28, for example) the context is one in which it is clearly not a prescription for a particular means of putting bread on the table. In the case cited, the Apostle Paul was merely giving an exhortation to earn one's own living. 

2. Look at the cultural context in which the statements are made. How many white-collar workers were there in New Testament times? Not many. Working with one's hands (or in particular one's OWN hands) has nothing (In my humble opinion) to do with how one works, but with whether one is supporting himself through labor (of whatever kind).

We've got to be really careful not to analyze the Scriptures out of context - but rather read them in both grammatical and historical context. If you take any verse out of these contexts, you are prone to all sorts of error. 

My tuppence.


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2006)

turmeric said:


> Some "white collar" people, like doctors, work with their hands. Also, we do need corporate, government, and legal workers.



Indeed. I work with my hands, too as a physics professor. I can tell, particularly this evening as I work on a manuscript. Since I took my girls bowling this afternoon, my right hand (the bowling fingers) are rather fatigued, so the manuscript work is slow going.


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## Timothy William (Dec 2, 2006)

Unfortunately some of our churches give far to little respect to blue collar workers and their families. One issue that has long irked me is the requirement at many seminaries that students already have a Bachelor's degree, which effectively tells 50-60% of the population that they aren't intellectual enough to become ministers. That said, I'm about as middle class as they come. 

In regard to the thread topic though, I agree with those who say that the biblical context does not imply that manual labour is required, but earning an income by one's own labour. We see the likes of Joseph and Daniel praised for their faithful service in white collar government jobs. Nor do I agree with the view of some that blue collar work is "real, honest labour" in a way that white collar work isn't.


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## satz (Dec 2, 2006)

> Nor do I agree with the view of some that blue collar work is "real, honest labour" in a way that white collar work isn't.





For what little it is worth, I don’t think God distinguishes between blue collar and white collar work at all. We want to be careful of writing off parts of the scripture as being ‘only cultural’ etc, but we also need to not confuse narrative or descriptive passages with prescriptive passages. Also, while some passages are meant to lay down in specific detail what we are supposed to do, there are other passages that use specific examples to teach a general principle. I agree with what others have said that the passages referring to ‘working with your hands’ are using a culturally specific example to teach a general principle of hard work to support oneself. I believe this falls in line with other scriptural examples such as Paul’s holy kiss in Romans 16 and other places as well as the Lord Jesus’ example of foot washing. In those places the bible is teaching us principles, but not asking us to follow the example specifically. As another example, Proverbs 31:22 tells us that the virtuous woman’s clothing is ‘silk and purple’. I’ve yet to hear anyone stand up and say women can only wear one kind of material and of one color if they wish to please the Lord. Again, the cultural example is being used to teach a general principle of dressing well, it is not being set up as something binding on all Christians at all times.

Another thought, the new testament is not silent on the issue of vocation and work. In fact, ‘work’ is addressed at least five times in the epistles: Ephesians 6, Colossians 3, 1 Timothy 6, Titus 2 and 1 Peter 2. And despite all the attention given to the idea of Christian work, God no where addresses the idea of _what_ kind of work to do, he cares only _how_ the work is done (ie hard, diligent work is what pleases him). I do believe that barring sin, any kind of work can be equally pleasing to the Lord.

That said, I will agree with what Timothy wrote, that the church needs to be careful about falling into the worldly attitude of valuing white collar work over blue collar work.


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## crhoades (Dec 2, 2006)

Whether you choose the white or blue route, work hard and to God's glory. Take dominion in your given vocation. Tithe. Rest on the Sabbath. Make time for friends and family by not making an idol of work. Be ethical.


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## brymaes (Dec 2, 2006)

> Whether you choose the white or blue route, work hard and to God's glory. Take dominion in your given vocation. Tithe. Rest on the Sabbath. Make time for friends and family by not making an idol of work. Be ethical.





From someone whose "other" vocation is a blue-collar one!


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## LadyFlynt (Dec 2, 2006)

Timothy William said:


> Unfortunately some of our churches give far to little respect to blue collar workers and their families. One issue that has long irked me is the requirement at many seminaries that students already have a Bachelor's degree, which effectively tells 50-60% of the population that they aren't intellectual enough to become ministers.


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## MrMerlin777 (Dec 3, 2006)

Not to honk my own horn but, I'm a medical laboratory technician. And I'll tell ya, I have to use my hands alot in my work. (Not to mention wash them alot. Sometimes 'till they're dry and raw. Side line, any recomendations for a good hand lotion that doesn't feel like putting grease or lard on one's hands?)

Yep, "white collar" "blue collar" doesn't really matter as long as what ever we find to do we do as unto the Lord.


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## bob (Dec 3, 2006)

I think this is an area in which each individual must carefully ponder the effect that their occupation will have upon their lives as it impacts their relationships with their family and their neighbor.

I live in a rural farming community and happen to work as a carpenter with my father and two of my brothers. My ancestors were all farmers/carpenters and evidently something must flow in the blood, because I only managed two years of college before I determined that sitting in doors on a fine day was something I really didn't wish to endure my whole life.

I confess to being an "old time sort of guy", longing for the day of the agrarian community in which an individual's occupation specifically impacted and benefitted the immediate community, both by way of producing goods and services for the sake of the betterment of the community as well as requiring a constant interaction with the local community.

In regard to raising a family, I think there is a great advantage in working in an occupation that keeps dad close to home, if not right at home. It seems that today, even among the church men, the driving force behind education is to prepare young people for a career. Once that career is achieved, the driving force is to improve upon the career. How many Christian men do I know that are so attached to their jobs, in some cases commuting a long distance in order to achieve them, that they manage to spend only a very minimal time at home with their families and hardly have time to share a sentence with their neighbors? Often times these moves pull us a long distance from our families and we are unable to provide care for our anging parents and loved ones. Aging parents, while in many cases very proud of their successful children, long for thanksgiving to roll around so that they might see their grandchildren.

I'm not prepared to make a distinction between right and wrong and certainly in everything we do, we must do it heartily as to the Lord. What I like to advise young people who are considering what they should do is that they should look at the grand scheme of things before basing all their choices upon a lucrative career.

It's my desire to raise up my children to appreciate the traditions of their ancestors, having the ability to work with them and teach them my trade. As I grow older, I begin to really understand the great advantage that I had in spending every day with my father as he taught me how to work hard and to learn the carpentry trade. As a result, I have an intimate knowledge and relationship with my dad that many sons have never experienced. It provided for my father an opportunity to speak of the goodness of God in the morning when we awoke, at noon when sat down to eat our sandwich, and at evening when we drove home.

Not everyone shares with my preferences. In regard to specific instructions concerning work, I think Christ Rhoades hit the nail on the head.


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## BJClark (Dec 3, 2006)

staythecourse;

I'm in agreement with the rest, it doesn't matter.

The body needs members trained and equiped in ALL areas, so whatever they are labouring in, we should labour in the Lord.

An eye can not function in place of a mouth, nor a liver function in place of a foot, so all members need to work within their own calling...no matter what the career choice...they are still a member of the body be it within the gathering of the Saints together, or in the world in which God has placed us at this time. 

God doesn't train and equip us to stay holed up together all the time, we are to be trained and equipt while we are gathered together, so that we are prepared when we go out into the lost and dying world.


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## Gregg (Dec 3, 2006)

MrMerlin777 said:


> Not to honk my own horn but, I'm a medical laboratory technician. And I'll tell ya, I have to use my hands alot in my work. (Not to mention wash them alot. Sometimes 'till they're dry and raw. Side line, any recomendations for a good hand lotion that doesn't feel like putting grease or lard on one's hands?)



Usually, it is hot water that dries out your skin. Try washing hands with cold water. (seems to work for me anyway).


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## SRoper (Dec 3, 2006)

"Let no man think an honest employment a burden or a disgrace. And labour of the head, is as hard, and very often harder, than labour with the hands."
--Matthew Henry, _Concise Commentary on the Bible_


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 3, 2006)

SRoper said:


> "Let no man think an honest employment a burden or a disgrace. And labour of the head, is as hard, and very often harder, than labour with the hands."
> --Matthew Henry, _Concise Commentary on the Bible_


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 3, 2006)

Presbyterians have pretty consistently held to an educated ministry; that's why the West was mostly settled by Baptists first; the Presbyterians couldn't graduate new pastors fast enough. I think Presbyteries can waive certain education requirements but waiving the undergraduate degree is rare I suspect.


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