# origin of Mohammed's revelations



## rmwilliamsjr (Jan 10, 2011)

i've been reading a little bit on Islam's origins and have come up empty handed on material showing where Mohammad's revelations came from. i see a little influence in his contact with Christian and Jewish people and the social culture of pagan Arabs he was a part of but looking for a book that puts it together. most of what i've found talks about the poetic form of the Quran rather than the ideas.
tia


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## Covenant Joel (Jan 10, 2011)

I only know of a few titles that address this specifically. They are all somewhat older titles, so most of them are pretty pricey, but the first one appears to be recently reprinted for only $10.

_The Original Sources of the Quran_ by W. St. Clair Tisdall (1911)
_The Sources of Islam_ by John C. Blair (1925)
_The Jewish Foundation of Islam_ (1933) by C.C. Torrey
_The Origin of Islam in its Christian Environment_ by Richard Bell (1926)
_Christianity among the Arabs in Pre-Islamic times_ by J. Spencer Trimingham (1979)

All of these recommendations from Dr. Don McCurry's book, _Healing the Broken Family of Abraham_, pages 47-48. There might be some newer titles that address the question in more detail, but I don't know of them as of yet.


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## toddpedlar (Jan 11, 2011)




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## SolaScriptura (Jan 11, 2011)

Or maybe hash.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 11, 2011)

I'd go with Satan.


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## Rich Koster (Jan 11, 2011)

Even though a former SNL skit was used, I believe Todd is correct. Even if some text was lifted from God's word, the intended useage is, what is referred to in scripture as, doctrine(s) of demons.


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## MLCOPE2 (Jan 11, 2011)

I think I'm gonna second hash.


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## Peairtach (Jan 11, 2011)

Apparently he thought they were from an evil jinn i.e. a demon but, after consulting with his wife, decided that they were from God.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 11, 2011)

I definitely think Satan.


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## PuritanZealot (Jan 11, 2011)

I've always found it very interesting to look closely at the origins of Mohammeds revelation. Firstly he had it in a cave, underground, in the dark, and an angel of light appeared to him to give him the Quraan, contrary to every other Revelation God ever gave, nearly always out in the open, usually on a mountain or in the wilderness.
Secondly, he received the revelation from an angel, and whilst some people received words from angels in warning, wisdom and so on they never received doctrine, especially such profoundly scripture altering doctrine as Mohammed did.
Thirdly, the way in which he received the prophecy was the sounds of billions of bees or flies buzzing in his head, which he couldn't understand and kept knocking him unconscious from the pain. Again the difference with God's revelation to his prophets is astounding. I am always reminded that Satan was called Beelzebub, or Lord of the Flies and here the False Prophet received his false revelation from the buzzing of millions of insects.
The similarities with Babylonian mystery religion, i.e. caves, darkness, angels of light, insects is also interesting.


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## PMBrooks (Jan 11, 2011)

Not many contemporary references exist that talk about the sources from which Mohammed might have drawn his material. There are several good biographies that give a details here and there. The problem is that oral tradition was still the practice during his time, so we have only a few reliable written sources. 

Some scholars believe that Mohammed might have drawn his material from sources he heard growing up. The pre-Islamic Arabian peninsula was filled with roaming Arab, Christian, and Jewish tribes. We know for sure that members of Mohammed's immediate family were even Christian and Jewish. 

If one were to do a little redaction and source criticism when reading the Koran, you could almost make out how Mohammed might have heard the stories from Christian and Jewish oral tradition, added his own details, and passed them on. When reading the biblical stories in the Koran, they read almost as if someone might have heard them, but just got a few details wrong from the story being passed around so much. 

When I return to my office, I will try to find the biography on Mohammed that speaks of his family's background and how the oral tradition may have been passed along.


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## PuritanZealot (Jan 11, 2011)

Let's not forget as well that his first wife, who convinced him he was a prophet and not just crazy, was a devout Roman Catholic. 
Lot's of shady goings on around the Papacy and the origins of Islam.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 11, 2011)

Satan. I believe, from the study that I have done, that there was a combination of things he had heard from Christians, Jews, and pagan Arabs - but that it was woven and added to by demonic revelation.


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## Covenant Joel (Jan 11, 2011)

PuritanZealot said:


> Let's not forget as well that his first wife, who convinced him he was a prophet and not just crazy, was a devout Roman Catholic.
> Lot's of shady goings on around the Papacy and the origins of Islam.



Source?


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## PuritanZealot (Jan 11, 2011)

"Mystery Babylon the Great" by Dr Ian Sadler.
This book taught me a huge amount about the origins and source of all other religions than Christ, he quotes sources there about the Romanish origins of Islam and Kadja's Catholicism.


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## Pergamum (Jan 12, 2011)

Answers.com - When was Muhammad's first vision of Gabriel

Interesting link.


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## Iconoclast (Jan 12, 2011)

James White pointed out at one of the debates that mohammed never read a bible because their was no translation into arabic until 100 yrs later.
in the koran the constant allusions to Jesus son of miriam indicate he was critical of what he saw of the roman catholics around him.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 12, 2011)

He was also illiterate from what I have read. But, that does not mean that things he heard from the Bible did not end up in his books.


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## seajayrice (Jan 12, 2011)

Hard to miss, Satan is the Father of this foul religion. Clearly the spirit of antichrist.

1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 
1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


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## rmwilliamsjr (Jan 16, 2011)

thanks 
found _Christianity among the Arabs in Pre-Islamic times_ at the library.....


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## Pergamum (Jan 17, 2011)

LawrenceU said:


> He was also illiterate from what I have read. But, that does not mean that things he heard from the Bible did not end up in his books.


 
His illiteracy is a contested point. Some apologists use this point to try to make the writing of these revelations to seem more miraculous than they are.

He was at least literate enough for business purposes, to write his "revelations" and possibly to write down the name of his successor on his death bed (a whole 'nuther story entirely if we want to talk about his successors).... Plus, over the span of 23 years as a "prophet" I am sure he felt a need to improve himself when he wasn't fighting wars or adding wives.

LoL: A Struggle that Led to Conversion 2/3


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## Pergamum (Jan 17, 2011)

PuritanZealot said:


> Let's not forget as well that his first wife, who convinced him he was a prophet and not just crazy, was a devout Roman Catholic.
> Lot's of shady goings on around the Papacy and the origins of Islam.


 
PuritanZealot:

As much of a Protestant that I am, this seems to be an unfair accusation against the Catholics. The early church condemend the Ebionite errors, which is probably what Mhd was familiar with in his day.


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## LeeJUk (Jan 17, 2011)

Having studied this recently at university I will offer what I was told.

He used to go to a cave in a mountain(in Mecca, Arabia) during Ramadan to fast and meditate/pray. One day when he was around 40 if I recall correctly he had a vision of an angel who gave him the first verses of the Qu'ran and some other revelations. He was very scared by this and wasn't sure whether to trust it. So he sent his wife to speak to one of her Christian reletives who was a monk or priest of some sort I think. That priest told her that the vision was from God and that he met the angel gabriel. 

A few months later he was up in the same mountain and had another revelation and this is when he started to preach the early form of Islam and cause a stir in Mecca. He continued to have revelations throughout his life and even one during the night where he was said to go to heaven and met Moses, Abraham and Jesus among others. Some of these revelations would lead to new doctrines like the giving of Alms and so on. 

Hope this helps in some way. It's not as detailed and I haven't included dates mainly because that would mean finding the books and references.
He was born in 570 and had first revelation about 610 if I recall correctly in the cave.


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## toddpedlar (Jan 17, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> PuritanZealot said:
> 
> 
> > Let's not forget as well that his first wife, who convinced him he was a prophet and not just crazy, was a devout Roman Catholic.
> ...


 
It's also anachronistic, as the church of 500-600 cannot be so neatly labelled "Roman Catholic".


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## Peairtach (Jan 17, 2011)

seajayrice said:


> Hard to miss, Satan is the Father of this foul religion. Clearly the spirit of antichrist.
> 
> 1Jn 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.
> 1Jn 2:23 Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.


 
Technically speaking Islam isn't an antichrist like Gnostic "Christians", the Watchtower Society, the Papacy (_the_ Antichrist), Liberal Christianity, etc, because it doesn't pretend to be true Christianity but another religion.

If you're going to call Islam an antichrist, you may as well call Nero, Communism, Buddhism, Sikhism, Judaism, Naziism, etc, "antichrists".


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## Brother John (Jan 17, 2011)

What is the most accurate English translation of the koran available? I would like to read it but not a politically correct westernized version. You know the NASB version of the koran


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 17, 2011)

Richard Tallach said:


> seajayrice said:
> 
> 
> > Hard to miss, Satan is the Father of this foul religion. Clearly the spirit of antichrist.
> ...


 
Does one have to be pretend to be Christianity to be anti-Christ? 



> (1Jn 4:1) Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.
> 
> (1Jn 4:2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
> 
> (1Jn 4:3) *And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God*: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.


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## Pergamum (Jan 18, 2011)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Richard Tallach said:
> 
> 
> > seajayrice said:
> ...


 
It does seem that Antichrist will be a false Christian.


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## Peairtach (Jan 18, 2011)

Well it's kind of off topic. We could have (another) thread on the nature of antichrists/the Antichrist. Fairbairn is very good on this in his "Interpretation of Prophecy".

The original antichrists/exponents of an antichrist which John was dealing with were the Christian Gnostics, who maintained that they were Christians, maintained that they had a correct doctrine regarding Jesus Christ, and yet denied that He had come in the flesh. I.e. they were more subtle than the surrounding false religions of John's day, in that they claimed to be Christianity while setting up a false idol in Christ's place and overthrowing the essence of the faith.

Religions such as Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Judaism, etc, do not fit the bill in that they don't claim to be Christianity or worship the God of Christianity, and hopefully no-one would be under the illusion that they are becoming a (true) Christian by joining the Islamic or Judaistic religions.

We could take a scatter-gun approach to the word "antichrist" and call anything that is an enemy of Christ and His cause and kngdom "an antichrist"/"the Antichrist" e.g. "Buddhism is an antichrist". But the Apostle doesn't do that here. 

"Antichrist" is probably not a word to throw around too much even in Christian circles, because people aren't too sure what you're meaning. It's also been abused a lot by dispensational premils.


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