# Being offended by Requred Chapel Services at School



## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Feb 22, 2005)

If someone were to walk up on chapel and praise alchohol they would most likely offend people and be asked never to come back, since our school bans the substance. 

However, when people sing uninspired contemp songs and hymns while strumming on their guitars, it is very offensive to me, as I paralell that to the strange fire of Aarons sons and the disobeying of God's sacraficing commandment to saul, etc, and view it offending God. Now I'm not trying to start a debate on the RPW, I am questioning what I should do about attending Chapel since going there never does me any good. Could I talk to a school authority and get out of it? 

When I joined the school I knew nothing about the RPW and was ignorant as the majority of the rest of the students here on it.


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## alwaysreforming (Feb 22, 2005)

Tim,
If your conscience is troubled that much by it then I don't see why you wouldn't be able to discuss the matter with school officials and perhaps be granted a "reprieve."

As someone who does not hold to the RPW (edited: whoops, sorry: I simply meant exclusive psalmody) 
I have a difficult time completely sympathizing with your issue; however, I can somewhat put myself in your shoes as I've been confronted with trite, "popular", emotional/romatic, teen-beat stuff in church and it has not "led me into worship" to put it mildly.

I'd just make sure that your issue is "settled," meaning you have given the subject PLENTY of time and study and have spoken personally with competent counselors to make sure you are doing the right thing. The last thing you would want to do, and it is so easy, is fall into a "self-righteous" mindset that sees others as worshipping falsely, and yours alone as the right way. That kind of happened to me a couple of years ago until I "grew out of it." (Not saying that it represents you, at all.) There are plenty of GREAT men of God who don't hold to the RPW, and because of that, that should be cause for humility on the issue. But in the end, if it violates your conscience, that's not good either and is not a good way to worship.

[Edited on 2-22-2005 by alwaysreforming]


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 22, 2005)

Tim,
I can't say I blame you, however, Chapel is not a worship service (is it?). They are not administering sacraments and are not technically a church. So, I don't think the RPW would be an issue. In thuis way, they are not offering up "strange fire". Just don't sing the corny songs if they offend you. I believe you should be benefiting from prayer and scripture, no?

[Edited on 2-23-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Feb 22, 2005)

Scott, depends on the school.

When I was in college, it was "worship" and sometimes they did administer the sacraments. We all signed on the dotted line (literally) to abide by thier rules.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 22, 2005)

Hmmmm. How can they do that if they are not a _church_?


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## pastorway (Feb 22, 2005)

At my school we were under the direct oversight of a church, indeed a ministry of the church, and the pastor was the chancelor. Chapel was worship with singing, praying, preaching, etc. but no ordinances.

As to the question at hand, I would not be offended. You are required to go to chapel and you just might get to hear some really good preaching.

What if you were a missionary in another land, a different culture, and they did things that you believed violated the RPW? Would you be offended?

If so, to be honest, the focus in on you instead of on Christ! Can you not endure these things (which many mature and godly believers disagree on) with a little longsuffering and patience, bearing with others (Col 3:12-15).

In fact, let me quote these verses:



> 12Therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, put on tender mercies, kindness, humility, meekness, longsuffering; 13bearing with one another, and forgiving one another, if anyone has a complaint against another; even as Christ forgave you, so you also must do. 14But above all these things put on love, which is the bond of perfection. 15And let the peace of God rule in your hearts, to which also you were called in one body; and be thankful.



Live these attributes and you will not be offended. Use the opportunity in chapel to pray for the school, the students, the faculty. And remember Psalm 119:165:



> Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.



Take your eyes off of those around you and fix them firmly on Jesus. Then look for the opportunities you are being given to grow in grace.

Phillip


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Feb 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by webmaster_
> Scott, depends on the school.
> 
> When I was in college, it was "worship" and sometimes they did administer the sacraments. We all signed on the dotted line (literally) to abide by thier rules.




Matt this school does exactly that. We have had communion on several occasions.


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## Peter (Feb 22, 2005)

Scott,
I thought any group of believers, _assembled_ together was a church? Do you mean *just* b/c they aren't a presbyterated _session_ they can't worship? Of course preaching or administering the sacraments without a Minister is sin but what about singing and reading?

[Edited on 2-23-2005 by Peter]


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> Scott,
> I thought any group of believers, _assembled_ together was a church? Do you mean *just* b/c they're not a presbyterated _session_ they're not worshipping?



Peter, 
No, of course not. I was speaking in terms of an actual _local_ church, i.e. the sacraments are being administered. Which has caused me to think a little deeper on the issue. For instance, if you and I got together, would we the local church gathering-no, not technically. Would we be an expression of _the_church, yes. However, what is one of the signs of the local church? The administering of sacraments, right? There is a difference. Could you and I have the supper at home here? No. Why not? The supper, the sacraments are to be administered by an ordained minister. Worship of that nature is to be led by an ordained minister. Membership is essential. Would our private worship be bound by the RPW? I would say yes. However, could our private worship be seen on the same level as when the local church meets? There has to be a difference.

[Edited on 2-23-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 22, 2005)

VII. As it is the law of nature, that, in general, a due proportion of time be set apart for the worship of God; so, in his Word, by a positive, moral, and perpetual commandment binding all men in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven, for a Sabbath, to be kept holy unto him:[34] which, from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, was the last day of the week,[35] and, from the resurrection of Christ, was changed into the first day of the week, which, in Scripture, is called the Lord's day,[36] and is to be continued to the end of the world, as the Christian Sabbath.[37]


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## Peter (Feb 22, 2005)

Tim, I dont know the details of your situation but if uninspired songs are being sung at these chapel meetings, and the intent is to give worship to God, and there is no other benefit in attending them, I would request leave of it.


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## Peter (Feb 22, 2005)

I understand Scott, thanks for the clarification. I may be wrong about this but I would consider any group of believers assembled together for worship as a church, though I agree w/ you they still may not administer sacraments or preach.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 22, 2005)

If no one is administering sacraments, I don't believe we can be seen as a local assembly of believers. If so, the rest of the church may be in error as they are forsaking the gathering together-no? I believe we are bound by scripture in how we worship, but I wonder if we can say we are bound by the RPW? Just pondering these things........


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 23, 2005)

RPW = Clear teaching of Scripture to me. I don't feel like I'm following anything but the Bible when I am pondering its implications. Same with the WCF, etc.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> RPW = Clear teaching of Scripture to me. I don't feel like I'm following anything but the Bible when I am pondering its implications. Same with the WCF, etc.



Agreed. However, in regards to the RPW, there are things that are only relavent to how the local church functions, which cannot be transferred over to private worship & vice versa.


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## Peter (Feb 23, 2005)

Scott-"I believe we are bound by scripture in how we worship, but I wonder if we can say we are bound by the RPW?"

Scott, I think the definition of a "church" disagreement is merely linguistic, but whatever you wish to call it we would be and the chapel is bound by the RPW.


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## wsw201 (Feb 23, 2005)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> At my school we were under the direct oversight of a church, indeed a ministry of the church, and the pastor was the chancelor. Chapel was worship with singing, praying, preaching, etc. but no ordinances.
> 
> As to the question at hand, I would not be offended. You are required to go to chapel and you just might get to hear some really good preaching.
> ...



 and


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

> Scott-"I believe we are bound by scripture in how we worship, but I wonder if we can say we are bound by the RPW?"



The RPW is a biblical account of how Christs church worships-no?

Random thoughts:

Peter:
1) Is private worship the same as corporate?
2) Is the RPW the standard for both?
3) What then is the difference between private and corporate?
4) When does private worship become corporate?


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## future expatriate (Feb 27, 2005)

Tim--

I also attend a school with required chapel. While I don't agree with your stance on exclusive psalmnidy (at least, I think that's what your stance is), I sympathize with you on feeling uncomfortable. Our chapel services are often a joke, with badly played P&W songs that are either inane or outright contrabiblical (e.g. "how can I say that I love you unless I can put my arms around you?"). In the past, speakers have been awful, and in recent memory, idoliterous (e.g. quoting from John 1, holding up the Bible, and saying, "This is God, ya'll!").

I can't get an exception, unless I'm willing to attend Jacob's Society, the Roman Catholic fellowship (uuuuuh....no). So, how do I approach this? 

Crude as it may appear to some, I use it as an opportunity to do homework or take a nap.


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by future expatriate_
> Tim--
> 
> I also attend a school with required chapel. While I don't agree with your stance on exclusive psalmnidy (at least, I think that's what your stance is), I sympathize with you on feeling uncomfortable. Our chapel services are often a joke, with badly played P&W songs that are either inane or outright contrabiblical (e.g. "how can I say that I love you unless I can put my arms around you?"). In the past, speakers have been awful, and in recent memory, idoliterous (e.g. quoting from John 1, holding up the Bible, and saying, "This is God, ya'll!").



Which speaker was that? Good thing I missed it... My main objection to the P&W is that the style is so obviously a performance for the musicians. 

I feel like I must look like a heathen or something to some people there, but I use it for doing homework, too. When I remember to go.


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## future expatriate (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> Which speaker was that? Good thing I missed it...


I've forgotten his name. The "campus revival" guy.


> My main objection to the P&W is that the style is so obviously a performance for the musicians.


Indeed.


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## Craig (Feb 27, 2005)

I spoke with the chaplain at my college when I became convinced our chapels were performance driven/idolatrous...

It did no good. We took communion a few times per year. I think I abstained eventually. Anyway, I was yelled at by the chaplain when I recommended we sing a few hymns here and there, to give the "worship" some balance. Literally, I didn't demand psalmody (I hadn't heard of it at this point), nor exclusively hymns...just a couple now and again.

I am sure my school was worse as Open Theism was allowed to "grace" chapel services. I eventually slept or did some homework during the required chapels. I also offered my help as part of the student led chapels...I was declined but a Romanist was embraced and was the ring-leader of future strife in that school.

Sorry, I offer little hope, except that your chapels may actually be better!

[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Craig]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 27, 2005)

If you have free time, I just wrote a 49-page treatise on corporate worship, based on the RPW. If you want me to e-mail you the PDF I can, or just simply read it on my blog.


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## Craig (Feb 27, 2005)

One recommendation, though...

I asked the chaplain for a directory of student's home churches. I was going to start a bible study for like-minded Christian. Unfortunately, that came to no avail: there was simply no one like me! The closes thing was someone in the CRC, but that person was Arminian, too. 

You may want to find like-minded people and have a bible study or something like that. You could change the face of a school's spiritual life that way.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

Ultimately, it comes down to the agreement you all have signed in regards to the requirements of the university; one of them being attending chapel. It cannot be considered corporate worship, because they are NOT a church per se; they may be an extension of a church, but they have no real membership or governing body, i.e. they are not acting like a real church in that they are not seeking new members or disciplining. There are no elders are there? In that regard, as I have said, the RPW is not an issue. They give the sacraments under the blanket of the church they are an extension of; in my opinion, this is a break in orthodoxy unless of course the person administering is a pastor of that church that is overseeing the chapel........

[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

Is it necessarily a sin to witness a violation or the RPW or is it only a sin to participate?


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> Is it necessarily a sin to witness a violation or the RPW or is it only a sin to participate?



Evie,
Are you refering to the chapel? if so, it cannot be a break in the RPW as it is not a church.

Lev 10:1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not. 

Num 3:4 And Nadab and Abihu died before the LORD, when they offered strange fire before the LORD, in the wilderness of Sinai, and they had no children: and Eleazar and Ithamar ministered in the priest's office in the sight of Aaron their father. 

The WCF says:

IV. This catholic church hath been sometimes more, sometimes less visible.[8] And particular churches, which are members thereof, are *more or less pure*, according as the doctrine of the gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.[9]

V. The purest churches under heaven *are subject both to mixture and error*;[10] and some have so degenerated, as to become no churches of Christ, but synagogues of Satan.[11] Nevertheless, there shall be always a church on earth, to worship God according to his will.[12]




The scriptures do not show that anyone else was held responsible but the leadership. However, if I was to attend a RC church and ignore the convictions, I believe this would be sin. Identifying the error and rejecting it inwardly is I believe absolution. I have sat through many illicit worship services with many a break in the RPW.........painful at best!



[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 27, 2005)

The parachurch mindset of modern Christians says that organized religion isn't needful or Biblical and worship is not defined by set times and circumstances. To address this adequately you really have to carefully define church and worship. A good place to start in terms of worship is the Westminster Confession, Chap. XXI, which speaks of the elements of worship and how they are regulated by God's Word. The Westminster Assembly was very careful in its written documents to distinguish between the three types of worship that are required of believers by God, and these three distinctions come from God's Word and the light of nature: 

Corporate or Public Worship
Secret or Private Worship
Family Worship

The following resources may be of some assistance in defining the differences:

Westminster Directory for the Publick Worship of God:

http://www.covenanter.org/Westminster/directoryforpublicworship.htm

Westminster Directory for Family Worship:

http://www.covenanter.org/Westminster/directoryforfamilyworship.htm

_Public Worship to be Preferred Before Private_, David Clarkson: 

http://www.covenanter.org/DClarkson/clarkson_pubwor.html


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

Thanks Andrew. Three distinctions that cannot be confused as one thing.


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> ...



I agree that it's not a church, but I also think you were right earlier in the thread when you said that private worship is still bound by the RPW. Surely there are some restrictions...

One of the problems I have with our chapel services at this school is that they are made out to be a worship service (with praise & worship music) and yet it's not at all uncommon to have female speakers. But then, if we don't apply the regulative principle, what's wrong with this? If the restrictions on the assembly are only on established churches, what's wrong with a woman preacher in that context? (On the other hand, I don't believe women should be teaching men formally outside the assembly, either, so that would still be a violation...  )

Incidentally, our chapel director, who moderates the service, is also an ordained minister in a Southern Baptist church. What bearing does this have on the chapel and its obligations?


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> ...



After more study, my comment about the RPW previously was wrong. The RPW is for corporate gatherings of the local church; the chapel is not a local church. They may be a gathering of the visible church, but they are not local. Local churches minister the sacraments, i.e. they are baptising, having the supper, disciplining, excommunication, etc. The chapel does not do this, they can't. There are no members. They are not a church.

As far as the minister being ordained, that is another issue altogether which I believe Matt addressed a month or so ago. From a Presbyterian perspective, I don't believe the sacraments can be administered under these conditions as I have said, no RPW is in place as it is not a church and the only persons that are able to administer sacraments is the church; locally.

[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> ...



So is there, then, nothing wrong with what they are doing?


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

Technically yes; just ignore the silly songs etc. I don't believe it is sinful for you to attend. Continue doing your homework.....During prayer time, the word and the supper though, sober up!



[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

It seems like there must be some restriction, though! That is, either it is wrong to have corporate worship outside the auspices of a local church or all corporate worship should be subjected to the RPW... I don't know... What you say makes sense, but I hate coming to the conclusion that it is appropriate to worship corporately without the restrictions of the RPW.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> It seems like there must be some restriction, though! That is, either it is wrong to have corporate worship outside the auspices of a local church or all corporate worship should be subjected to the RPW... I don't know... What you say makes sense, but I hate coming to the conclusion that it is appropriate to worship corporately without the restrictions of the RPW.



Evie,
You are not worshipping corporately. Corporate worship only occurs at the local level. For instance, does corporate worship exist in my personal worship time w/ my wife and daughter? How about at the Ligoniers conference? A local home fellowship?

here's a quick read from Bahnsen that touches on _corporate_ worship.

http://www.reformed.org/webfiles/antithesis/v1n2/ant_v1n2_record.html

[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> ...



So you would classify chapel services as private worship regardless of how much they resemble corporate worship? But even at that, are there no restrictions on private worship? Does the second commandment apply only the corporate body or to all individual believers engaging in any sort of worship? (After all, isn't idolatry sometimes an act of private worship in the Old Testament?) And, if it does, what would constitute a violation of the second commandment in private worship?

This is what I am wondering: We use the principles of the RPW to determine what the acceptable acts of corporate worship are. At the same time, I do believe the Bible has implicit guidelines for private worship. Are we not similarly bound? Maybe it isn't the RPW in the sense of the regulative principle of corporate worship, but isn't the basic idea the same--we only worship God through the means he has ordained? And if corporate worship is defined as a place where the sacraments may be administered, doesn't that sort of implicitly regulate private worship by limitation?... That is, it is inappropriate to administer the sacraments in private worship (which is, in itself, a regulation).

[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Ex Nihilo]


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

Evie,
Resemblance is just that, resemblance. resemblance does not change a donkey into a horse; they are what they are.
As far as restrictions, that which applies, applies. believers are bound by the scriptures. If you believe the body representing the chapel time is in error, challenge it.......



> This is what I am wondering: We use the principles of the RPW to determine what the acceptable acts of corporate worship are.



The RPW is biblically geared towards the _corporate_ worship of God. Are there things in the RPW we can gleen from for private, surely. 



> isn't the basic idea the same--we only worship God through the means he has ordained?



The basic idea is not the same. The RPW is geared towards the coporate worship of God. Gods word teaches believers how to pray; we pray accordingly. Gods word teaches us that _His word is light_; we should study. Faith comes from hearing/reading; we read. The scriptures show us that we should rejoice, and sing to God. Dance! They show us how to rear our children. These are all beneficial, yet, they are not corporate.

Did you read the Bahnsen paper. He does a much better job of explaining than I do.

[Edited on 2-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> Evie,
> Resemblance is just that, resemblance. resemblance does not change a donkey into a horse; they are what they are.
> As far as restrictions, that which applies, applies. believers are bound by the scriptures. If you believe the body representing the chapel time is in error, challenge it.......
> ...



Yes, it's an excellent paper by Bahnsen, and he does deal with the distinction, but I don't feel that this demonstrates that only corporate worship is subject to some sort of regulation (be it the formal RPW or a similar principle for private worship--we only worship God in private in the ways that he has ordained that we may worship him in private... for instance, we are not to administer the sacraments in private.) The Old Testament prohibition on idols didn't just include temple or tabernacle worship; it also meant that the Hebrews should not have idols in their homes.

When I said that "the basic idea is the same" I wasn't referring to the corporate nature, but the regulated nature. Private worship comes under different regulations, but is still not left up to our personal creativity... A violation of the second commandment is still a violation whether I am using graven images in a mass with other people or using an image of Christ on the cross in my personal devotion. The commandment still applies... that's why I said the basic idea is the same.


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 27, 2005)

In that way, yes. As I had previously stated, believers are bound by Gods word.


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## webler (Jul 30, 2005)

This is my first time on this board so I hope that it goes in correctly. I am responding to Tim's initial posting. 

I am somewhat familiar with the particular school he is going to and I also attended a "christian" college a number of years ago. (back when the "Nephilim" roamed the earth). I have come to the conclusion that truth and worship as given to us in God's Word is not the driving force behind these type of schools. In a desire to seek some kind of unity they set up a system which reduces doctrine to the bare minimum that "they believe" one has to adhere to be a Christian. As long as you believe in Jesus, (keep in mind that the Jesus presented in these schools may not be the one proclaimed in the Word) you are considered a Christian. I call this form of unity the "unity of unbelief". The thought that "the Grace of God has appeared . . . instructing us to the intent that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly and righteously and goldy in this present age" never crosses their mind. As long as they "are busy for God" and doing that which appears to be righteous by their standards, they are shocked if those who are zealous for the Glory of God, because they understand what God has done in Christ in justification and sanctification, don't follow their blind guidence.

Having said all of that, Tim, you have to decide if you are getting a good education at this University and is it worth enduring a chapel service which grieves your heart. You must remember that there was a time when you did not understand "RPW" and be patient toward those that know absolutely nothing about it. If it were me, I would attend the chapels to fulfill the obligation of the piece of paper I signed and then go about doing my duties as a student, praying for the opportunity to speak with others about the things that are dear to your heart. Try to avoid being a contentious Calvinist. Remember, if you have truly come to greater understanding of the Glory and majesty of God, and see the shallow nature of man centered worship, you did not come to this because of your superior intelligence; this understanding is a blessing from God and needs to be handled humbly.

Knowing what I know about some of the attitudes at that School I will try to remember you in my prayers so that you can stand strong and be a good example of the grace of God.


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## Ex Nihilo (Jul 30, 2005)

Since you've revived this thread, I wonder if anyone can answer this question: What restrictions, if any, would apply to a school chapel type of service? Is it even permissible to have such services outside the auspices of a congregation?

Of course, all worship is bound by the word of God, but what is an adherent of the RPW to do with what might be called private large-group worship services?


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 30, 2005)

Wow, welcome Jay, great first post!


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## lkjohnson (Jul 31, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> Tim, I don't know the details of your situation but if uninspired songs are being sung at these chapel meetings, and the intent is to give worship to God, and there is no other benefit in attending them, I would request leave of it.



A better solution would be to find another school. Tim, you knew the requirements when you enrolled. You knew what the school stood for when you enrolled. Had you held your current conviction at the time you probably would have chosen another school. For that matter, Bob Jones would probably not have accepted you as a student.

It is unreasonable to expect them to change who they are even though you have changed who you are. We might disagree with their beliefs about worship, but they hold them as dearly as we hold ours. To ask them to change would be to ask them to violate their convictions. That is unreasonable. By enrolling in the school you agreed to abide by their rules and practices. If you find that offensive, find a school where you are more comfortable.

In other words, grow up. Realize that the vast majority of this world will not agree with your faith, but that is OK. The whole world does not revolve around you. Find a school that does not place you in that position. 

That statement may be blunt, and it is certainly not what you wanted to hear, but it stands nonetheless. What would you say to a Muslim who wished to attend Bob Jones and not want to attend chapel because it is offensive to his faith? You would say, "We are Christians. There are Muslim or secular schools you can attend." As a private school, that is Bob Jones' right and responsibility. You situation is only a matter of degrees.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 31, 2005)

Liberty would reprimand guys for leaving chapel service when they had _female preachers_... I finally got tired of pretense of protest and possibility of getting reprimands-- so i just ignored the speaker and read a book...

granted, they only had 2-3 women speakers.


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## Jie-Huli (Jul 31, 2005)

It is fine to say that the Regulative Principle (in its full meaning) applies only to the corporate worship of the church, but surely everything we do in any situation, and especially in the worship of God in any sphere, must be regulated by Biblical principles. Whether or not the Regulative Principle applies to school chapel service, the 2nd and 3rd Commandments certainly apply. And I believe that most of the modern "praise and worship" music to which I believe Tim was referring are actually violations of these commandments . . . irreverent, taking the Lord's name in vain, and bordering on the idolatrous. So I believe the conviction not to attend such services is correct, notwithstanding the sphere of the Regulative Principle.

It may be best to seek another school, but in the meantime I think it perfectly proper to request leave from the chapel services, explaining your reasons. Humility and charity are always called for, of course, but so is separating oneself from unbiblical practices in the worship of God.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli


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## webler (Jul 31, 2005)

Evie,

I think the question of whether or not the RPW should apply to chapels at "chrisitian" colleges is a mute point because of the fact that, most likely, none of the leaders have any intention of implementing those principles. Rather, you need the consider what is actually going on and whether your conscience can bear it.

As I pondered on this subject more I am wondering if those on this thread who have to face this problem have sought counsel from there elders or pastors at their respective churches. This is where you need to start when faced with the delemas that you have. 

I personally have developed a very negative attitude to much of what goes on under the title of higher "christian" education and frankly want little to do with it. I believe that these institutions assume far more authority than God has given them. During my time at a Bible College 27 years ago I got to the point that I could no longer, with a clear conscience, attend and decided to go to electronics school. At the time I had a very sound church and relied upon that church and the elders their for my spiritual growth. Having said that I bleive that it is best to follow the conusel of the leaders at your church.


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 31, 2005)

Jay,
You have a message (u2u). Upper right corner of screen


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## webler (Jul 31, 2005)

Scott,

Made the change. Thanks again.

Jay


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Aug 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by lkjohnson_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Peter_
> ...



Yea this is long and running but just to go on the record since I read this... I never said that the school should change their worship style for me. Where did you get this idea? I just thought the school should maybe not force chapel on everyone. When is forced worship ever worship?


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## Laura (Aug 31, 2005)

Ehh, I'm facing a similar thing at Baylor, only its services sound much more like yours, Evie and Vershal. Women speakers, performance-driven music, but no sacraments. I also do my homework in the corner, and I don't really care what it looks like - at first I thought I ran the risk of distracting others from worship, but my whole issue is that it's _not_ worship, and I don't even hold to the RPW (yet). Anyway, I'm looking into that, but I just wanted to say that I feel your pain. 

Re: forced worship - in our services they actually monitor the students and will tell them to put away their books if they have them out. I've been fortunate enough to escape this so far, but that really irritates me. If a person wants to quietly study, there is no reason to tell him to stop. "You must worship!" Yeah, that's kind of creepy.


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