# Graduate level Education for pastors



## Unoriginalname (Aug 11, 2013)

I remember reading in a few places that there used to be a Bachelors of Divinity degree, what are the reasons that seminaries morphed into being graduate level institutions and the "entry" level degree for the pastorate became a M'Div?


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## Edward (Aug 11, 2013)

Without answering your question, I would note that as recently as the early 1970s, some universities offered a Bachelor of Laws degree as the professional degree, now the basic law degree is a doctorate (but the next degree beyond that is still a Masters).


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## arapahoepark (Aug 11, 2013)

I am not sure but, I seen many older professors who had their BD after having a previous Bachelor's degree. I am not sure if that means there was no MDiv (I doubt it) or what.


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## Jake (Aug 11, 2013)

Edward is on to something. It is more to do with inflation of title than change in the program. A M.Div is still more the equivalent of another bachelor's degree than a master's level degree. The nomenclature has simply changed.

Today some seminaries will award a Bachelor of Divinity for someone who has not gotten a Bachelor's degree and a Master of Divinity for someone who has, with little other difference (although generally B.Div are only given to later in life learners).


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## reformedminister (Aug 11, 2013)

The Bachelor of Divinity and Master of Divinity are equivalent. The M'Div used to be called a Bachelor of Divinity. The prerequisite for this degree was a Bachelor's degree. They renamed it. There is a retired minister at our church who graduated from Columbia Theological Seminary in 1958 with a Bachelor of Divinity and was given the option to pay $25 when they changed the name of the degree, to turn in his diploma in and receive an M'Div. HI think this was in the 1970's.


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## Unoriginalname (Aug 11, 2013)

If anyone knows back when the Bachelors of Divinity was normative were pastoral candidates still expected to have a different degree. The reason I am asking this is because I have read a lot about how the many men who desire to do ministry are being financially ruined pursuing M'Divs and I wonder what the rational for making our candidates go through 7-8 years of school was (when 4 of them may be unnecessary). I believe my current pastor's undergraduate was in music while another pastor I know has an undergrad in electrical engineering, both of which seem to have little to do with the ministry.


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## nicnap (Aug 12, 2013)

Unoriginalname said:


> I wonder what the rational for making our candidates go through 7-8 years of school was (when 4 of them may be unnecessary



It is so that if the ministry does not suit them--if they are called and burn out or cannot handle the pressures of the ministry, or if they are in between calls, they can find employment that will sustain them and their families until they receive another call. It is hard for a man who has only a Bible degree and a Seminary education to find employment in any way that will truly support his family if he is without call.


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## jwithnell (Aug 12, 2013)

I can't think of a single modern BA that requires candidates to do a chunk of coursework that requires the ability to work in two plus ancient languages. "Inflation" is a hugely unfair term to apply to the equivalent of a professional degree. Way back, a huge focus of colleges was to prepare young men for ministry, but those students would have entered school with a solid grounding in Greek, latin, rhetoric and the classics. They would not have received the broader science, economics, politics, etc. that until 20 years ago was part of the general education requirements for all undergraduates enabling a broader engagement in society regardless of your profession.


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## jogri17 (Aug 12, 2013)

The M.Div. is not a master's level program. Here in Quebec for example, it is treated by faculties of theology as a Bth (as it is still in Europe). Even in London to the best of knowledge, the first degree is the BTh, than the MA or ThM, than the PhD or ThD (MA becomes PhD; and ThM becomes ThD). In the past, because it was presumed Greek, Hebrew, and Latin would be known before starting theologicical education, a previous degree would be required before starting a Bth (thus the reason Puritan ministries usually didn't start until their late 20s or early 30s). But one thing I think many American Pastors get wrong is that their M.Div is equal to a master's degree and it is not given it is not. If they did a degree in Bible School or something and want a Masters degree they ought to go for a ThM, but the MDiv. is the standard for pastors so many get the two confused.


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