# Best Prereq Degree for PhD



## ReformedChapin (Dec 24, 2008)

Hello Puritans. I would really like to go into teaching in the future as to what I am not sure yet. There are so many areas of biblical studies that I love besides theology but there is also church history. I have talked to a few seminary students and also a few counselors and the advice has been mixed. Some have said to go for an MDiv since it's more comprehensive and others have said to go for an MAR or another masters degree. What's your take and why?

-Julio


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## jawyman (Dec 24, 2008)

Julio, 

I would suggest a M.A.R.. I have a brother at PRTS that wants to teach, so he is earning his M.A.R.. At least at PRTS, the M.Div. is really to prepare us for pulpit ministry. This is just a suggestion.


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## ReformedChapin (Dec 24, 2008)

jawyman said:


> Julio,
> 
> I would suggest a M.A.R.. I have a brother at PRTS that wants to teach, so he is earning his M.A.R.. At least at PRTS, the M.Div. is really to prepare us for pulpit ministry. This is just a suggestion.



Do you think that the MDiv is overkill?


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## Glenn Ferrell (Dec 24, 2008)

Most MAR degrees are the MDiv program minus a few courses. It is not usually an academic degree. Why not apply to a master’s program at the university where you want to do a PhD. If you do well, one can sometimes persuade the department to admit you into the doctoral program without completing the master’s degree first. Or consider going to the UK, where doctoral programs often take less time than here.


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## jawyman (Dec 24, 2008)

I would not go so far to say the M.Div is overkill, but it prepares you for something you feel you are not called to. I may be wrong, but I would say MAR for the classroom and the M.Div for the pulpit. My brother at PRTS is not called to pulpit ministry, so he is earning his MAR in order to go on and earn his Ph.D..


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## tellville (Dec 24, 2008)

The MDiv won't get you anywhere unless it is an ACADEMIC MDiv. In other words, all your electives and your emphasis needs to be on academics, not on all that are stuff like counselling and such. Also, you will probably want to do the ThM after degree as well. So in total, you are looking at four years of full time study (but you get two Master's degrees out of it and if you fail your PhD you can still teach with the ThM! At least in Christian settings you will be). 

Unless you have an undergrad in theology I would highly recommend you take the MDiv/ThM route. This way you will actually be prepared for a PhD.


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## ReformedChapin (Dec 24, 2008)

jawyman said:


> I would not go so far to say the M.Div is overkill, but it prepares you for something you feel you are not called to. I may be wrong, but I would say MAR for the classroom and the M.Div for the pulpit. My brother at PRTS is not called to pulpit ministry, so he is earning his MAR in order to go on and earn his Ph.D..



This is what I had originally thought. But the ThM backdrop sounds good as well and I'm not sure you can persue a ThM with a MAR degree.


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## Archlute (Dec 24, 2008)

If I remember correctly, all of our faculty at WSC had both M.Div degrees and good PhDs to boot. All of them have had experience in the pastorate, and several were concurrently serving in the local church even while teaching at the seminary (one was even a full time minister/church planter while teaching a full load, and publishing commentaries and other writings on the side). I don't see why an M.Div. would be antithetical to pursuing PhD work, or why there needs to be a split between the calling of minister and scholar.

Get a good M.Div., minister for awhile, and then take that concrete experience with you to the academy. You'll be the better scholar for it.


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## tellville (Dec 24, 2008)

Archlute said:


> If I remember correctly, all of our faculty at WSC had both M.Div degrees and good PhDs to boot. All of them have had experience in the pastorate, and several were concurrently serving in the local pastoral church even while teaching at the seminary(one was even a full time minister/church planter while teaching a full load, and publishing commentaries and other writings on the side). I don't see why an M.Div. would be antithetical to pursuing PhD work, or why there needs to be a split between the calling of minister and scholar.
> 
> Get a good M.Div., minister for awhile, and then take that concrete experience with you to the academy. You'll be the better scholar for it.


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## R. Scott Clark (Dec 24, 2008)

Which degree to take is determined by what you want to do and where you want to do it. If you want to compete for a teaching job some day, in a Christian college or seminary or in a university, you need to get recognized degrees from serious, accredited schools. 

A ThM is a one-year finishing degree for students with an MDiv. It is not really intended as prep for a PhD. 

An MA is a two-year degree which can serve as preparation for a PhD. We send a few students to PhD programs every year. Our MA in Historical Theology is intended for this purpose. Our MA HT requires Greek and Hebrew and offers the opportunity to learn Latin (which several MDiv students also take). It includes a thesis which is good preparation for a PhD diss/thesis.

The MDiv degree is generally for pastoral preparation. At WSC it is probably the most difficult degree since it requires the greatest number of credits and study in multiple fields. Not all MDivs are created equal. We still require students actually to learn Greek and Hebrew and to be able to use it before graduating. It's a rigorous degree.

If you want a PhD for self-improvement, then it doesn't matter where you go. A seminary PhD program will do fine. Otherwise, most seminary PhD programs are designed to raise revenue for the school more than they are to prepare students to become professional scholars. I think the WTS program is improving and the Calvin Sem PhD in HT with Muller is quite good. Nevertheless, it may be difficult to get a job with a sem PhD when your CV goes into a pile with CVs from Harvard, Princeton, Duke, Yale, Cambridge, and Oxford. What should matter most is the quality of the work done but schools (especially colleges) market themselves partly on the basis of where their faculty earned their PhDs. That's just the way it is.


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## ReformedChapin (Dec 25, 2008)

Dr Clark,

How important is an undergrad GPA when trying to get a teaching job? I'll be honest, I haven't done to well because of various issues outsite of my control. I hope to do a lot better in graduate school because things will be a lot better.

Thanks in Advance.


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## R. Scott Clark (Dec 25, 2008)

SoliDeoGloria said:


> Dr Clark,
> 
> How important is an undergrad GPA when trying to get a teaching job? I'll be honest, I haven't done to well because of various issues outsite of my control. I hope to do a lot better in graduate school because things will be a lot better.
> 
> Thanks in Advance.



Not terribly. It's more important for getting into grad school than it is for getting a job. If you can get into a good MA program you need to do well to demonstrate that your undergrad GPA was not representative of your ability or of your willingness to work.


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