# The local church, conscience and the RPW



## Prufrock (Nov 16, 2008)

I don't know if there is still a moratorium on "anything related to EP," so if this hits too close to that topic, forgive me.

I have a very practical question of conscience for which I am most interested in gathering the reflections and conclusions of the many here, in addition to that which I have gleaned from certain theologians of days past.

There are no churches in the area which practice the RPW. Where this hits particularly close to home is the singing. I do not believe that uninspired songs have a place in the public worship of God. All churches around here, however, use them in worship. If there are any of you out there who have ever shared in this situation, how have you responded. Do you simply stand there silently as everyone around you sings? For the sake of church unity do you go along with it? Do you not even stand up with the rest of the congregation as a sign of your disapproval? 

I am most interested in hearing the wisdom of you people out there who have dealt with these things before, and how you responded. I just got back from church, and it is very pressing on my mind.

Thanks.


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## Mayflower (Nov 16, 2008)

Prufrock said:


> I don't know if there is still a moratorium on "anything related to EP," so if this hits too close to that topic, forgive me.
> 
> I have a very practical question of conscience for which I am most interested in gathering the reflections and conclusions of the many here, in addition to that which I have gleaned from certain theologians of days past.
> 
> ...



What about instruments in the NT worship ? Is that a problem for you ?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 16, 2008)

Well is there any example whatsoever of instruments used for worship in the New Testament church? 

(Stay away from the typological verses in the Book of Revelation)...


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## Prufrock (Nov 16, 2008)

I do not like instruments in the church's worship, no.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 16, 2008)

Paul -- These threads may be of interest to you. 

http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/worship-service-music-37298/
Pray for me and Exclusive Psalmody


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## Mayflower (Nov 16, 2008)

Prufrock said:


> I do not like instruments in the church's worship, no.




I agree


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## Pilgrim (Nov 16, 2008)

At the last Presbyterian church I attended, there was a gentleman from Scotland who attended regularly with his children. There is no EP church for hours around here, but this church is the closest to the RPW of any of the PCA churches in the area. (It was quite similar to the OPC I belonged to.) When hymns were sung he and the children would stand and follow along in the hymnal but did not sing. This church also sang a good number of Psalms from the Trinity Hymnal, but with musical accompaniment of course. I don't know whether they sang then or not.


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## he beholds (Nov 16, 2008)

At our church there are a couple families who are EP. They stand, but do not sing, when we sing hymns. They do sing when we sing Psalms, even though the Psalms are accompanied by music.


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## Grace Alone (Nov 16, 2008)

I will be glad when we get to heaven and find out what God really thinks about this issue. This is what I think about: He looks down in a service and people are singing a hymn such as the one below, and He either is glorified by the voices praising Him or else He finds it offensive. If He sees it as glorifying, then those who refuse to sing are withholding praise.

A mighty fortress is our God,
A bulwark never failing;
Our helper he amid the flood
Of mortal ills prevailing.
For still our ancient foe
Doth seek to work us woe;
His craft and power are great;
And armed with cruel hate,
On earth is not his equal.

Did we in our own strength confide,
Our striving would be losing;
Were not the right Man on our side,
The Man of God's own choosing.
Dost ask who that may be?
Christ Jesus, it is he,
Lord Sabaoth his name,
From age to age the same,
And he must win the battle.

And though this world, with devils filled,
Should threaten to undo us,
We will not fear, for God hath willed
His truth to triumph through us.
The prince of darkness grim,
We tremble not for him;
His rage we can endure,
For lo! his doom is sure;
One little word shall fell him.

That Word above all earthly powers,
No thanks to them, abideth;
The Spirit and the gifts are ours
Through him who with us sideth;
Let goods and kindred go,
This mortal life also;
The body they may kill:
God's truth abideth still;
His kingdom is for ever.


My sincere belief is, how could He be offended by these words???


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## OPC'n (Nov 16, 2008)

You possibly don't hear about instruments being used in the NT because it was already a known practice in the OT (1 Chronicles 23:5 4,000 gatekeepers, and 4,000 shall offer praises to the LORD with the instruments that I have made for praise." is just one example)
so nothing new to talk about in the NT. The Jewish culture used instruments. The psalms themselves speak of worshipping God with many different instruments. We practice the RPW in the OPC and we use hymnals and a piano. I believe Sproul's church uses many different kinds of instruments. I'm not sure why people feel that they can only sing the Psalms. Colossians 3:16 states, "Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, teaching and admonishing one another in all wisdom, singing psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, with thankfulness in your hearts to God." I believe not singing in church is dishonoring to God. You are leaving out a part of worship to God. This is direct disobedience to the church and thus to Christ who is head of the church. When you are in a church you need to obey their leadership or find a church where you can obey the leaders. Disobedience is disobedience no matter how "righteous" it might seem to you.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 16, 2008)

Do not forget about Nadab and Abihu and "strange fire"...


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## Prufrock (Nov 16, 2008)

Thanks to those of you who have responded (and thank you, Josh).

I've been standing along with everyone when hymns are sung so far, and just not singing. If a psalm is sung, I have no qualms about singing along whether instruments are being played or not: regardless of what is going on around me, I can still sing a psalm. I don't think that my act of singing gives approval of the use of the accompanying instrument. Do others agree?

(Also, Sarah, I don't think any elders of a church would hold a person to be disobedient if they didn't sing along with a song if in their conscience they cannot do so without violating the commandment of Christ.)


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## Tim (Nov 17, 2008)

I stand and do not sing. If they sang a psalm, I would sing, even though there was instrumental accompaniment.


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## jaybird0827 (Nov 17, 2008)

Tim said:


> I stand and do not sing. If they sang a psalm, I would sing, even though there was instrumental accompaniment.


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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 17, 2008)

That would be me I guess. There are other circumstances as well, but the elders know about it and as far as I know everyone is fine with it (and the pastor's wife is my sister so that don't hurt either; I've known my brother-in-law since I was about 10; so, getting close to 40 years now).



Joshua said:


> I know of at least one EPer who does not stand while the congregation sings hymns, but will stand and sing if/when a Psalm _is_ chosen for congregational singing.
> 
> I don't think there's a hard & fast rule, but I do think one should act according to their conscience, and graciously, humbly, inform their elders, so that there's no confusion in the matter.


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## chiefend (Nov 18, 2008)

*My Thoughts*

I am glad to see you posting this question! I have been in the same situation, having a conviction to sing only the psalms but being in a location without a church that shared the some conviction. 

As the great poet once said, “to sing or not to sing, that is the question”

I to, as so many others, quietly stood with book in hand as the congregation sang. My line of reasoning was similar to others I have heard. My line of thinking was as follows:

God commanded us to sing only the psalms in worship. 
Singing anything but the psalms would be in disobedience to God.
One must obey God
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Therefore one should not sing anything but psalms in worship

Over time I have since changed my position as God has moved in my life through various trials. I did a good deal of study on the subject, read one theologian who said the greek means this, and another theologian who said the opposite. One said God commanded only the psalms, the other the opposite. Clearly the concept the God requires us to sing in worship is not debated; it’s the content of the songs to be song that is debated. I had several questions that I had to answer for myself. 

“Could I be deceived in thinking God commanded only the psalms to be sung in worship?” 
“With so many Godly men in the reformed faith who have studied this topic and come to the opposite conclusion, can I claim to be sure I am not deceived?” 
“If I am wrong, would I then be in even greater sin due to the clearness of God to sing in worship?”
“If I don’t sing the hymns, and I PROMOTING unity in the church seeing as how I am clearly standing up and disagreeing with the church leadership while masking it through a sense of piety and humility?” (I would argue no)
“what is clearer in scripture, unity or exclusive psalmody?”

Next came a series of questions as to the nature of the purpose of exclusive psalmody:

“Why would God command the singing of only the psalms?”
My argument is that EP is for the benefit of the church and is not commanded because God needs it. Whether you sing psalms or hymns the only reason God would accept your singing is because of Christ death. We know that God did not care about the sacrifices in the OT but He did care about the heart the sacrifices where given. I would argue that in singing anything other than the psalms the people most hurt are the believers. 

“What is more damaging to the believer, singing nothing or sing hymns”
This is a question that needs be answered by oneself as it has more implications to it. To violate ones conscience is of great damage. The saying “conscience is king” does apply here and that is why many leaders in the church don’t require you to sing if it violates your conscience. We also know though that one’s conscience can be bound to things it should not be, and that is what my questions are to pose to you, should your conscience be bound on this subject?

I would then bring a last set of questions to bear, but these questions deal with a larger subject that can’t be dealt with here. 
“Do you have the right to do what is right in your own eyes?”
“If so, is there any degree that you do not have that right?”

My point with these last few questions is that foundationally you are doing what is right in your own eyes when your leaders, your authority, believe that you are in error. I would strongly recommend you to consider the fact that it’s your leaders’ position to lead the congregation in the ways of the Lord, just as it’s the husband’s position to lead the wife in the ways of the Lord, and that I would argue is EP. But just as it’s the leaders’ position to lead, it’s your position to follow. You still have all the ability to appeal and argue your point before them; I would encourage you to submit to their ruling on this matter. 

One last note, instead of trying to get them to sing only the psalms, I would encourage an argument for incorporating more psalms into worship. You might find that this will bear a lot more fruit than arguing for exclusive psalmody.


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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 18, 2008)

Welcome Christopher; please see the link below my signature to fix your signature to be in accord with the board rules. Thanks much.


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