# Is there such a thing as sabbath breaking today?



## BaptistCanuk (Jul 12, 2006)

Is there really such a thing as "Sabbath breaking" today? Every day is the Sabbath. Christ is our Sabbath. If we can't go worship on Sunday because of work, there are other opportunities throughout the week right?

As for going to the deacons for help with finances, can you guys really do that in your churches? I would never think of asking for help from my church. Not that I know for sure they wouldn't help me but I just fear they wouldn't. I've gotten the impression over time that churches want your money but don't want to help you in your time of need. Maybe it's just my pride, I don't know. But I am being honest.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 12, 2006)

Brian,
We'd never want anyone to use God's moral standards (his law) as a rule of justification. But his moral standards are just that--a reflection of his holy character, and of his expectation. They are a handy guide for our conduct, and our determination (willfully) to do things that we know please God.

Confessionally, our reformed churches have taught that God's moral will is "summarily" taught in the 10 Commandments. So, is the 4th commandment a moral precept? That's the question you need to ask, if you accept that God's moral, unchanging law is the same standard from the beginning of human creation till now.

We believe the 4th commandment is a moral command. Jesus simply changed the day on which we worship from the last to the first of the week, but one day in 7 is God's. Hebrews tells us in 4:9, that because there is a heaven-of-rest that still awaits us, we still have a reason and an obligation to keep the type of the final-rest here on earth. We rest in him when we attend his worship and ordinances.

As for other services during the week, does your church hold worship services every day, or at times when Sunday-workers cannot come? Are these the "other opportunities" you speak of? While I think this might be a comendible thing, yet there still is the duty of the church to worship on Sunday. And while I do believe that there are necessary jobs (emergency and law enforcement come most readily to mind) I do think that Christians ought to seek God on the day he set aside, and only divert from that under the most pressing of responsibilities. Our collective church-failure to discourage secular activity on the "Lord's Day" by our own believing community has led to the abandonment of Sunday as the rest-day by society in general.


As for financial help, the church should be proactive in seeking to know the needs of its membership. But, the members should not refrain from telling the church about their real hardships. I think you do well in maintaining self-reliance even in difficult times. But I should hope that you would feel you could bring a truly overwhelming need (or even one that put you slightly beyond your means) to the church. The church exists so that we may "bear one another's burdens."


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## BaptistCanuk (Jul 13, 2006)

Hey Bruce, thanks for your challenging post.  I will try to answer you the best I can. First, I printed off a bunch of Scripture verses dealing with the Sabbath and will go over them carefully.

I believe God's commandments are moral ones. But I thought that Colossians 2:16,17 "16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ." meant that nobody can judge you on which day you attend worship. In fact, I also thought that the Sabbath day was just a shadow of the reality that Jesus is our Sabbath. I may be wrong, but I am being honest in what I thought.

My present church only has services on Sunday morning and night but I've been to churches that also have a Wednesday evening service. I figured more opportunities were offered so that those who couldn't go Sunday morning due to jobs (police, doctors, etc. like you said) could attend worship.

As for financial help, I don't know if I could ever go to my church for that. Maybe it's pride but I just couldn't. I know this is sad because the church is there to help it's members but I'm just afraid they wouldn't. I'm afraid of what that will do to my perception of the church.

Thanks again Bruce. God bless.


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> But I thought that Colossians 2:16,17 "16 So let no one judge you in food or in drink, or regarding a festival or a new moon or sabbaths, 17 which are a shadow of things to come, but the substance is of Christ." meant that nobody can judge you on which day you attend worship.



Brian,
How did you come to this conclusion? It doesn't say anything about when you attend worship...........The passage mentions _sabbaths_. Were there more than one type of sabbath rests?


Leviticus 23:1-44 eviticus 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts. 3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings. 4 These are the feasts of the LORD, even holy convocations, which ye shall proclaim in their seasons. 5 In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is the LORD'S passover. 6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto the LORD: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread. 7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD seven days: in the seventh day is an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 9 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 10 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye be come into the land which I give unto you, and shall reap the harvest thereof, then ye shall bring a sheaf of the firstfruits of your harvest unto the priest: 11 And he shall wave the sheaf before the LORD, to be accepted for you: on the morrow after the sabbath the priest shall wave it. 12 And ye shall offer that day when ye wave the sheaf an he lamb without blemish of the first year for a burnt offering unto the LORD. 13 And the meat offering thereof shall be two tenth deals of fine flour mingled with oil, an offering made by fire unto the LORD for a sweet savour: and the drink offering thereof shall be of wine, the fourth part of an hin. 14 And ye shall eat neither bread, nor parched corn, nor green ears, until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 15 And ye shall count unto you from the morrow after the sabbath, from the day that ye brought the sheaf of the wave offering; seven sabbaths shall be complete: 16 Even unto the morrow after the seventh sabbath shall ye number fifty days; and ye shall offer a new meat offering unto the LORD. 17 Ye shall bring out of your habitations two wave loaves of two tenth deals: they shall be of fine flour; they shall be baken with leaven; they are the firstfruits unto the LORD. 18 And ye shall offer with the bread seven lambs without blemish of the first year, and one young bullock, and two rams: they shall be for a burnt offering unto the LORD, with their meat offering, and their drink offerings, even an offering made by fire, of sweet savour unto the LORD. 19 Then ye shall sacrifice one kid of the goats for a sin offering, and two lambs of the first year for a sacrifice of peace offerings. 20 And the priest shall wave them with the bread of the firstfruits for a wave offering before the LORD, with the two lambs: they shall be holy to the LORD for the priest. 21 And ye shall proclaim on the selfsame day, that it may be an holy convocation unto you: ye shall do no servile work therein: it shall be a statute for ever in all your dwellings throughout your generations. 22 And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not make clean riddance of the corners of thy field when thou reapest, neither shalt thou gather any gleaning of thy harvest: thou shalt leave them unto the poor, and to the stranger: I am the LORD your God. 23 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 25 Ye shall do no servile work therein: but ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 26 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 27 Also on the tenth day of this seventh month there shall be a day of atonement: it shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall afflict your souls, and offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD. 28 And ye shall do no work in that same day: for it is a day of atonement, to make an atonement for you before the LORD your God. 29 For whatsoever soul it be that shall not be afflicted in that same day, he shall be cut off from among his people. 30 And whatsoever soul it be that doeth any work in that same day, the same soul will I destroy from among his people. 31 Ye shall do no manner of work: it shall be a statute for ever throughout your generations in all your dwellings. 32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath. 33 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying, 34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month shall be the feast of tabernacles for seven days unto the LORD. 35 On the first day shall be an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein. 36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD: it is a solemn assembly; and ye shall do no servile work therein. 37 These are the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, to offer an offering made by fire unto the LORD, a burnt offering, and a meat offering, a sacrifice, and drink offerings, every thing upon his day: 38 Beside the sabbaths of the LORD, and beside your gifts, and beside all your vows, and beside all your freewill offerings, which ye give unto the LORD. 39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. 40 And ye shall take you on the first day the boughs of goodly trees, branches of palm trees, and the boughs of thick trees, and willows of the brook; and ye shall rejoice before the LORD your God seven days. 41 And ye shall keep it a feast unto the LORD seven days in the year. It shall be a statute for ever in your generations: ye shall celebrate it in the seventh month. 42 Ye shall dwell in booths seven days; all that are Israelites born shall dwell in booths: 43 That your generations may know that I made the children of Israel to dwell in booths, when I brought them out of the land of Egypt: I am the LORD your God. 44 And Moses declared unto the children of Israel the feasts of the LORD.


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## BaptistCanuk (Jul 13, 2006)

Hey Scott, I just came to that conclusion because I applied the sabbath to all sabbaths. Yes, there were different types I am aware. I just applied that verse to all of them and I figured since Jesus is our Sabbath rest now, that the days were nothing more than simple days now. That every day is the Lord's Day if you see what I mean.


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## R. Scott Clark (Jul 13, 2006)

Brian,

The Reformed view of the Sabbath is pretty clearly summarized in the WCF and the Three Forms of Unity. God created six days in which we may earn a living. Christ has claimed the first day of the week for entering into the new creation in Worship and rest.

In our polity, one of the primary ministry of the deacons is to relieve the suffering of God's people. This is a distinct office and ministry from the pastoral and presbyterial (elder) offices. 

In a properly ordered church, you should be able to approach the deacons without anyone else knowing. It's no one else's business to know how much aid one receives from the deacons and in our churches those numbers are only reported very generally ("the deacons disbursed x number of dollars this quarter). Specific disbursements ("so and so received x number of dollars) are not discussed. The budget is set by the Council (elders, ministers, deacons) but such disbursements are made by the deacons. 

As to your circumstances, it is a violation of the Law of God to despise the poor in the congregation, but it is also a violation of the Law of God to absent one's self from the means of grace (on the Sabbath) to work. If you cannot find work on the six days set aside for such, then your deacons should help you to find the training or work you need so that you can work six days and rest on the seventh.

If your congregation does not have deacons who are able or willing to function biblically, then you should find a Reformed church (as defined by the Reformed confessions) and unite yourself to it. 

As someone said, keeping the law does not justify sinners. Nevertheless, we are morally obligated as a matter of grateful duty to obey the revealed will of God and there is always a way to obey God's revealed will.

rsc


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> Hey Scott, I just came to that conclusion because I applied the sabbath to all sabbaths. Yes, there were different types I am aware. I just applied that verse to all of them and I figured since Jesus is our Sabbath rest now, that the days were nothing more than simple days now. That every day is the Lord's Day if you see what I mean.



I understand what you are saying, but for the sake of what we are discussing, is every day THE Lords day?

Revelation 1:10-11 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and I heard behind me a loud voice like the sound of a trumpet, 11 saying, "Write in a book what you see, and send it to the seven churches: to Ephesus and to Smyrna and to Pergamum and to Thyatira and to Sardis and to Philadelphia and to Laodicea."

Acts 20:7 7 And on the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul began talking to them, intending to depart the next day, and he prolonged his message until midnight.

1 Corinthians 16:2-3 2 On the first day of every week let each one of you put aside and save, as he may prosper, that no collections be made when I come. 

John 20:19 19 When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, "Peace be with you."

Going back to the idea that there are a number of sabbaths, can you please show me that the passage in Collosians is in regards to the first day of the week sabbath and not the others? 

Matthew 24:15-20 15 "Therefore when you see the abomination of desolation which was spoken of through Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place (let the reader understand), 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains; 17 let him who is on the housetop not go down to get the things out that are in his house; 18 and let him who is in the field not turn back to get his cloak. 19 "But woe to those who are with child and to those who nurse babes in those days! 20 "But pray that your flight may not be in the winter, or on a Sabbath; 

Here Jesus is speaking of the moral commandment. If He meant to do away with it, and He was speaking of future things, why would He exhort us in this way if His intention was to abrogate the sabbath? 

[Edited on 7-13-2006 by Scott Bushey]


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## R. Scott Clark (Jul 13, 2006)

The phrases "new moons" and "sabbaths" (e.g., 1 Chr 23:31; Neh 10:33) are closely associated with the Mosaic economy or, as Paul and Hebrews put it, "the old covenant." That Old Covenant (Moses) was fulfilled by Christ. It's clear from Hos 2:11 that the Mosaic cultic (religious) calendar was temporary and was to be abrogated in the New administration of the Covenant of Grace (which was also a renewal of the Abrahamic covenant without the types and shadows).

The context in Colossians 2:16 concerns the Judaizing legalists who seek to impose the Mosaic legislation on New Covenant believers.

Paul is not speaking in Col 2:16 to the weekly rest/sabbath/Lord's Day. That rest day is not Mosaic or part of the Old Covenant. It is creational, as both Gen 1 and Ex 20 make clear. It is part of the creational pattern just as breathing and proceating are part of the creational pattern. 

We do not, as the Synod of Dort said, keep the Jewish sabbath. We keep the Christian Sabbath, the creational sabbath (for all humans in all times and places) and the re-creational (please note the hyphen!) sabbath: 

http://www.wscal.edu/clark/dortsabbath.php

Synod of Dort on Sabbath Observance
Session 164, May 17 PM
Trans. R. Scott Clark

Rules on the observation of the Sabbath, or the Lord's Day, with the agreement of the brothers from Zeeland the following concepts were explained and approved by Doctor Professors of Divinity.

I. In the fourth Commandment of the divine law, part is ceremonial, part is moral.

II. The rest of the seventh day after creation was ceremonial and its rigid observation peculiarly prescribed to the Jewish people.

III. Moral in fact, because the fixed and enduring day of the worship of God is appointed, for as much rest as is necessary for the worship of God and holy meditation of him.

IV. With the Sabbath of the Jews having been abrogated, the Lord's Day is solemnly sanctified by Christians.

V. From the time of the Apostles this day was always observed in the ancient Catholic Church.

VI. This same day is thus consecrated for divine worship, so that in it one might rest from all servile works (with these excepted, which are works of charity and pressing necessity) and from those recreations which impede the worship of God.

Source: H.H. Kuyper, De Post-Acta of Nahandelingen van de nationale Synode van Dordrecht in 1618 en 1619 gehouden een Historische Studie (Amsterdam, 1899), 184-6.

[Edited on 7-13-2006 by R. Scott Clark]


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## Ivan (Jul 13, 2006)

At my church we help people in need, especially membership. Sometimes the help isn't just money, but help in its many forms. Pride? Yes, I know about that. As bad off as I was a couple of years ago I did not go to the church and ask for help. On the other hand I did get help in a number of other ways. 

A church is a family. We take care of family.


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## CDM (Jul 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> Brian,
> 
> The Reformed view of the Sabbath is pretty clearly summarized in the WCF and the Three Forms of Unity. God created six days in which we may earn a living. Christ has claimed the first day of the week for entering into the new creation in Worship and rest.
> ...





What a privilege it is to be amongst spiritual giants.


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## BaptistCanuk (Jul 14, 2006)

Everybody, thank you for your posts. They contain much good instruction and I can see where I was wrong. The Sabbath day is still in place for a time of worship and rest. I still believe that Jesus is our Sabbath but the day is still in place. Thank you again everyone.


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