# Joel Osteen



## PuritanCovenanter (Feb 8, 2005)

I have looked for concrete info on the boy. I know the apple doesn't fall far from the tree. I know he doesn't have any biblical education to speak of. I know he is a Word Faith guy but I need proof from his lips or something solid to show that he is a heretic. My Sister and Dad think he is a great encourager. Come on and spill the beans. Someone must know where to find the truth about this guy. Thanks


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## turmeric (Feb 8, 2005)

Check out articles on monergism.com. There's 2 of 'em about Joel Osteen this month.


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## matthew11v25 (Feb 9, 2005)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> Check out articles on monergism.com. There's 2 of 'em about Joel Osteen this month.



 good resource

HERE is the Lakewood website (you can listen to Joel's "sermons")


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## Bladestunner316 (Feb 9, 2005)

See that the thing about these guys is the prevailing thought surrounding them is that how can he be a heretic is he preachs Love? or makes people feel better especially with all the evil thats in the world. But God shows his love in us by also demonstrating to us our need of him in that we are shown in his word his absolute sovereignty in Justice or in His wrath. I gota be careful im dont become to much justice and no love but it really aggrivates me to see christians even in my family become obssesed with God is Love and nothing else. Its not that God is all wrath and nothing else but you lose out so much in knowing God by keeping him confined to one attribute only.

blade


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## BobVigneault (Feb 9, 2005)

Extremely well said Blade! Thanks.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 9, 2005)

Check out the blogging movement that will try to bring him down. I think InternetMonk started it. If I had time I would devvote more blogs to it.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Feb 9, 2005)

Thanks


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## Authorised (Feb 9, 2005)

I have to share a city with this man.

WHEN WILL IT ALL END?!


Seriously though...all he preaches is "Jesus makes you healthy, wealthy, and wise" along with other feel good mantra. There is no conviction, no repentance, and utterly devoid of Christ.


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## Authorised (Feb 9, 2005)

Oh yeah, and he's charismatic. 


I don't get these guys. Tongues is just an old-fashioned word for _languages_. The tongue of the German, the tongue of the French. The tongues in which I currently speak are English and German, as opposed the beautiful romantic language of "sodgujspij"


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## ReformedWretch (Feb 9, 2005)

> I think InternetMonk started it.



Cool, a new site to frequent!


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 1, 2005)

Nothing new
R.C. Sproul Jr. on Joel Osteen and the megachurch movement

We are not a very discerning bunch. Because our sympathies lie more with that which presents itself as clean and successful than with an itinerate Rabbi with dirty feet, we are easily taken in. Whether it is a slick Texas politician, or the latest bestselling book/movie/conference series, if it´s clean and popular, evangelicals eat it up. There are two groups that miss the phenomena, however. First, we who are Reformed, refuse to believe that anything popular could be any good, and so we resist whatever evangelical juggernaut is breathing down our neck. We´re far too cool for that kind of thing. The second group likewise is far too cool. These are the neo-evangelicals, the effete ones that won´t jump on bandwagons simply because it just isn´t done. This second crowd only enters the fray long enough to yell at the Reformed for being judgmental, then goes back to its asiago cheese, pinot noir and Re:Generation Quarterly, hoping to be seen by those who read the New York Times Review of Books.

While I like to believe myself firmly in the first group as a general rule, that is, I am thoroughly Reformed, and not at all given to asiago cheese, nevertheless, I´d like to see these two groups meet somewhere in the middle. Being blasÃ© about error and tomfoolery is erroneous and tomfoolish. But playing the part of Chicken Little probably isn´t the solution either. Indeed, believing that the latest bushwa to come down the track will derail the Jesus train has more in common with believing the latest bushwa will inaugurate a golden age. We Reformed folk could use a little perspective, a little indifference, a little faith.

Today on the Today show I caught a minute or two of an interview with Joel Osteen, pastor of Somesuch Cost? What Cost? Mega-Happy-Center in Houston. His "œchurch" is said to be bigger than those "œchurches" shepherded by Apollyion and Beelzebub, or rather Rick Warren and Bill Hybels. As such we can expect to see him figure prominently in the Reformed Wrestling Smack Down, vying for the coveted crown of "œMost likely to destroy the church." Joel, whether he is a hapless geek who made it big by being nice, or a diabolical manipulator, doesn´t actually preach anything. Well, he does say that if we think happy thoughts Tinkerbell will survive. And so my camp begins wringing its hands. It seems, as luck would have it, that we have a confluence of a popular heretic with a big ole honking full sanctuary with media coverage. We´re doomed. These are the same folks who keep the volume turned down every time John MacArthur appears on Larry King, lest they miss the trumpet call.

Don´t get me wrong. I´m still Reformed. It´s a good thing to denounce error, to warn the flock. Joel is one bad guy, and the people that listen to him are badly duped. But please, can´t we be Reformed enough to know that this confluence didn´t happen by luck? Can´t we believe enough in the sovereignty of God to stop seeing face time on TV as the measure of how we are doing? The Kingdom of God has survived Billy Sunday, Billy Graham, Billy Carter, Billy Hybels and Billy Clinton. It has survived Promise Keepers, WWJD, Jabez´ prayer and every other Big Idea to come down the pike. It will do more than survive this latest drivel. May we learn to roundly denounce error, and may we learn to do it without spilling our wine all over the carpet. 

http://www.postmillennialism.com/main.html


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Mar 2, 2005)

Joel Osteen is a heretic because:

He has stated he refuses to preach about sin.
He refuses to preach about Christ.
He refuses to preach the full gospel.
He tells us we don't need to repent, just "shake off" our past and God will forgive us. No need to "get down" about what we've done or the mistakes we've made.

Oh, and all the charismatic, word-faith mumbo jumbo. His wife does the Lord's Supper service at the Church as well and is allowed to preach.


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## matthew11v25 (Mar 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Joel Osteen is a heretic because:
> 
> He refuses to preach about Christ.



I have not heard this yet. Is he blatantly refusing to preach about Christ? Could you provide links for this? I am interested.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 2, 2005)

This thread has been helpful to me. 

BTW, there is a recent Washington Post article which is of some interest as well: 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47023-2005Jan29.html


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## matthew11v25 (Mar 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> This thread has been helpful to me.
> 
> BTW, there is a recent Washington Post article which is of some interest as well:
> ...



Thanks for the link. Very interesting...sad.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 3, 2005)

I'm almost tempted to write a commentary article on this article.


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## tfelice (Apr 6, 2005)

Here is another good essay:

http://www.iconbusters.com/iconbusters/docs/letter/letter.htm

[Edited on 4-7-2005 by tfelice]


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## clevipearce (Apr 18, 2005)

A friend from a local college in Clinton, MS actually made an appointment with Joel Osteen about a couple of weeks ago. I have yet to discuss the visit with my friend, but once I hear from him I'll post. If there is one thing that fired up Paul, it was the people who preached a false gospel. Those who are not cautious and don't practice discernment can be so easily persuaded. The health/wealth gospel plays right into our American dream culture that says safety and comfort should be obtained at all costs. Yuck.


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## SteelYankee (Apr 18, 2005)

Excellent Critique of Osteen's book can be found here:


http://www.ccwonline.org/osteen1.html


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## Poimen (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Authorised_
> Oh yeah, and he's charismatic.
> 
> 
> I don't get these guys. Tongues is just an old-fashioned word for _languages_. The tongue of the German, the tongue of the French. The tongues in which I currently speak are English and German, as opposed the beautiful romantic language of "sodgujspij"



"sodgujspij"?

I thought it was "adslfkjasdlfiresjafjs!"


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## Authorised (Apr 18, 2005)

I forgot! There ARE several dialects.


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## matthew11v25 (Apr 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by poimen_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Authorised_
> ...



When I was in a pentecostal church, I knew a girl that wanted to go out with a guy based on his "tongues" speakin abilities (obviously the spirit was with him). Needless to say it didn't work out.


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## clevipearce (Apr 19, 2005)

Wow...

"The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church...So with yourselves, since you are eager for manifestations of the Spirit, strive to excel in building up the church" 
- 1 Corinthians 14:4,12

I think the main point of Paul's teaching is to build up the Church rather than desiring things that are potentially more self-serving.

"Pursue love, and earnestly desire the spiritual gifts, especially that you may prophesy."
- 1 Corinthians 14:1

Paul's main thrust here is to point us to things that serve others. We shouldn't go after things for our own appearance of "spirituality."

[Edited on 4-19-2005 by clevipearce]


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## bill c. (Apr 19, 2005)

"His "œchurch" is said to be bigger than those "œchurches" shepherded by Apollyion and Beelzebub, or rather Rick Warren and Bill Hybels."

What's wrong with Warren and Hybels? I'm a littel in the dark on this comment. I've read parts of Warren's book and it didn't seem that bad but other than that know nothing about him or Hybels.

I may be a little dense but R. C. Sproul's comments re WWJD, Promise Keepers, and Jabez were directed at the "fad-ism" that seems to sweep the Church from time to time right?? If this is so I tend to agree. For some reason people tend toward reading the latest book out rather than reading THE BOOK (by this I refer to the Holy Scriptures not that translation of them that came out in the 70's). Why is this? In my local Borders the Bible section has gotten smaller while the section for books based on the WWJD, Purpose Driven Life and Jabez grows.

Someone at work told me that they'd read some sort of book about Jesus (I forget the title it might's been the Osteen book) and they were asking me about learning more. I gave them a copy of the Bible and they gave it right back and said that they didn't want to "get into all that old stuff". 

I hope Rev Sproul wasn't knocking mega-churches in general.

bill c.


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## Poimen (Apr 19, 2005)

Imagine the following scenario:

Christianity Today 4/19/05

'New Fad Spreading Like Wildfire'

Another fad is sweeping evangelicalism across North America. Entitled the 'three forms of unity,' they are being hailed as one of the greatest ecumenical endeavors of popular Christianity in the 21st century. One TBN speaker says "This movement is full of the truth." He did, however, equivocate by saying "but not Truth. " Moe Monny, pastor of the Trailer Park Super Sized Monster Mega Deluxe Cahristian Chapel Worship Place" said "Gosh, why didn't someone tell me about this? I could have made alot of money on this fad if I would have invested in it before it got big." We caught up with average evangelical Jebediah 'Cornbread' Terwilliger who stated "Hyuck! I ne'er een knew 'at them here unities were arouund! I thenk I'll try em out by gum! onny' get mai ghun, we're a goin shoppin!"

Go to: http://www.burlingtonocrc.com/Confessions.html for more information!

[Edited on 4-19-2005 by poimen]


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## BobVigneault (Apr 19, 2005)

I love it Pastor Dan! I want a piece of that pie. You must admit, every goth, punk and reprobate would love to get their hands on a t-shirt with "3FU" emblazoned on the front.


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## Ivan (Apr 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> I love it Pastor Dan! I want a piece of that pie. You must admit, every goth, punk and reprobate would love to get their hands on a t-shirt with "3FU" emblazoned on the front.



I have no idea what you're talking about!!!...but that's okay!


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 19, 2005)

That 3FU t-shirt thing sounds like a good idea anyway.


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## bigheavyq (Apr 20, 2005)

So why is joel osteen so popular, because most americans shun theology and doctrine. They want to be entertained, not salt and light. They are not producing fruit and most pastors don't want them to. they want their money but don't want them to study lest they find the pastor to be in error and loses his big salaried job. People want goosebumps and to feel good and most of them think they are on fire for God. The sad truth is they may be serving the pastor but not God, they are not changing the world. The problem in america is not liberals or the government or hollywood. the problem is the church plagued by existential philosophy of scheilermacher and kierkegaard. It preaches living but not from scripture, but from psychological americanism. What ever happened to the Bible and our puritan heritage? Why aren't we preaching sinners in the hands of an Angry God? We need a real reformation in our churches. We need real repentance in this nation. we need because it will transform our nation.

Dear Lord Jesus, we need thee!!!!!!


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## Ivan (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by bigheavyq_
> So why is joel osteen so popular, because most americans shun theology and doctrine. They want to be entertained, not salt and light. They are not producing fruit and most pastors don't want them to. they want their money but don't want them to study lest they find the pastor to be in error and loses his big salaried job. People want goosebumps and to feel good and most of them think they are on fire for God. The sad truth is they may be serving the pastor but not God, they are not changing the world. The problem in america is not liberals or the government or hollywood. the problem is the church plagued by existential philosophy of scheilermacher and kierkegaard. It preaches living but not from scripture, but from psychological americanism. What ever happened to the Bible and our puritan heritage? Why aren't we preaching sinners in the hands of an Angry God? We need a real reformation in our churches. We need real repentance in this nation. we need because it will transform our nation.
> 
> Dear Lord Jesus, we need thee!!!!!!



 and


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## Poimen (Apr 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by bigheavyq_
> So why is joel osteen so popular, because most americans shun theology and doctrine. They want to be entertained, not salt and light. They are not producing fruit and most pastors don't want them to. they want their money but don't want them to study lest they find the pastor to be in error and loses his big salaried job. People want goosebumps and to feel good and most of them think they are on fire for God. The sad truth is they may be serving the pastor but not God, they are not changing the world. The problem in america is not liberals or the government or hollywood. the problem is the church plagued by existential philosophy of scheilermacher and kierkegaard. It preaches living but not from scripture, but from psychological americanism. What ever happened to the Bible and our puritan heritage? Why aren't we preaching sinners in the hands of an Angry God? We need a real reformation in our churches. We need real repentance in this nation. we need because it will transform our nation.
> 
> Dear Lord Jesus, we need thee!!!!!!



1 Peter 4:17 "For the time has come for judgment to _begin _ at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God?"


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## D. Paul (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Nothing new
> R.C. Sproul Jr. on Joel Osteen and the megachurch movement
> 
> ...




*YEEEEE HAAAA! I LOVE THAT!*


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## D. Paul (Apr 22, 2005)

While reading through the blogs on postmill...com, some of the Jamey Bennet quotes were, well...just odd. If, as he claims, he has "embraced 'Auburn Avenue theology'", has he not been called on it by the likes of RC Jr.? I mean he even went so far as to say he affirms that baptism saves. I know I'm not making something out of nothing. So is that particular forum open to *any and every* postmill-er and he just happens to be there along with RC or are these guys all buds and cohorts?


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## Romans922 (May 1, 2005)

i really love the globe.


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