# Music and Scripture Readings



## StephenG (Mar 27, 2016)

I was wondering if anyone had some wisdom concerning music while the Word is read during a service. For example, a Pastor comes to read a selected passage from the pulpit while the piano plays in the background, transitioning into the next hymn/praise song. I'm wondering whether the practice has its origins in revivalism, or if it is perhaps a bit distracting. Thoughts?


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 27, 2016)

During the reading? Never heard of that before. How can those so engaged listen to the word read? I find it distracting and unhelpful (and contrary to PCA BCO 58-6) when it is done during the administration of the elements of the Lord's Supper.


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## TylerRay (Mar 27, 2016)

Musical instruments were not used at all in Presbyterian churches until after the second great awakening (so called), generally.


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## StephenG (Mar 27, 2016)

I was wondering because this is done in my church. I do not find it distracting but I don't just love it either, and I don't know of anyone in the congregation who would say it was distracting. It might also be helpful to note that there is no _singing_ during the reading of the word and the piano is more or less quiet until we begin singing after the reading. Thanks for the thought; we also use music during the Lord's Supper and I actually find it helps me prepare to receive the sacrament.


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## Dekybo (Mar 27, 2016)

It is not done in my church, but I have found it distracting in churches that do play music especially during prayer or the reading of scripture.


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## TheOldCourse (Mar 27, 2016)

Even if we grant that musical instruments can accompany hymnody appropriately within the compass of the RPW, I can't fathom how a case can be made for their use with the public reading of scripture. At my church they play music after providing a passage of scripture for quiet reflection prior to the call to worship. At least that's not a part of public worship _per se_, but I find it very distracting. I can't imagine how much moreso it would be if they were to do it while the Scripture is read aloud.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 27, 2016)

The need for "mood music" and the recoiling against periods of silence in worship are an odd relic of the Finneyite and its successor revivalist preachers that have taken hold in Presbyterian circles.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 27, 2016)

It is distracting which shows the wisdom as far as it goes of one of the few constitutional parts of the otherwise pious advice PCA DfPW. 
"*58-6. Since believers are to act personally in all their covenanting with the Lord, it is proper that a part of the time occupied in the distribution of the elements should be spent by all in silent communion, thanksgiving, intercession and prayer. "
http://www.pcahistory.org/bco/dfw/58/06.html
*


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## StephenG (Mar 27, 2016)

The piano also does not start until toward the end of the reading, and never during prayer. I'm not a huge fan of the style of the worship, but I have never really been distracted from the Scripture reading by the piano. Again, I don't think it is particularly helpful but I don't find it reprehensible. I don't believe any of our church leadership claims to subscribe to the RPW, and I do not either, but I don't think that's necessarily what this is about. 
I might also say that "distracting" could be quite relative. What is distracting to one person may not be distracting at all to another.


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## Jack K (Mar 27, 2016)

I'm no fan of mood music during readings and prayers. But I wonder if it's too simple to suggest that its recent appearance in some Presbyterian churches is due to a Finney-model, Second Awakening influence. Certainly that's one influence; churches are way too interested in creating a mood. But I wonder if the current cultural tendency to do everything to a soundtrack isn't also a huge influence. Think how many people go through life with their "tunes" playing in their ears all day. Or consider how radio stations overlap everything so as to avoid even a moment of dead air. Our culture is uncomfortable with silence and has come to consider simply listening to a single voice boring. To media-minded musicians and performers especially, a soundtrack enhances everything.

Am I just an old fogey if I disagree and prefer life without a soundtrack?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 28, 2016)

Agree Jack, that's why I punted the influence up the ladder to later evangelists like Billy Sunday and Billy Graham. The kind of "leading music" into the next section of the worship order is something very keen at Graham's rallys and you can see it in the way music is used in revivals even unto this day.


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## Bill The Baptist (Mar 28, 2016)

Jack K said:


> I'm no fan of mood music during readings and prayers. But I wonder if it's too simple to suggest that its recent appearance in some Presbyterian churches is due to a Finney-model, Second Awakening influence. Certainly that's one influence; churches are way too interested in creating a mood. But I wonder if the current cultural tendency to do everything to a soundtrack isn't also a huge influence. Think how many people go through life with their "tunes" playing in their ears all day. Or consider how radio stations overlap everything so as to avoid even a moment of dead air. Our culture is uncomfortable with silence and has come to consider simply listening to a single voice boring. To media-minded musicians and performers especially, a soundtrack enhances everything.
> 
> Am I just an old fogey if I disagree and prefer life without a soundtrack?



I agree that the fear of silence is a cultural thing. John Updike once commented that elevator music was meant to replace the silence that might remind us of death. As believers, however, such a thought should not bother us.


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## StephenG (Mar 28, 2016)

Jack K said:


> Our culture is uncomfortable with silence and has come to consider simply listening to a single voice boring. To media-minded musicians and performers especially, a soundtrack enhances everything.


Interesting thoughts, all. 
I don't think that's the motivation for having "leading music" at our church. I'm of the persuasion (not subscribing to the RPW) that as long as something is reverent, not forbidden in Scripture, and helps us to worship God in Spirit and in _truth_, then it is not necessarily a bad thing. We love our pianist!


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## Peairtach (Mar 28, 2016)

> Interesting thoughts, all.
> I don't think that's the motivation for having "leading music" at our church. I'm of the persuasion (not subscribing to the RPW) that as long as something is reverent, not forbidden in Scripture, and helps us to worship God in Spirit and in truth, then it is not necessarily a bad thing. We love our pianist!



The looseness and subjectivity of your principle of worship could lead to all sorts of additions. E.g. what if some believe that a church filled with incense helps them to worship God in spirit and in truth. Who can forbid it?


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## Logan (Mar 28, 2016)

I heard a great example from CJ Williams recently. He was describing his cat, and how his cat, to show appreciation for his master, will sometimes "worship" him by bringing him an offering, such as half the carcass of a dead bird, or a mouse, etc. After all, who wouldn't want a dead bird? Well...maybe the one it's being offered to. 

When we offer to God what we think is appropriate, we may very well be offering a dead bird. We think it's great, it's wonderful, who wouldn't like what we're offering to God? Maybe that's what Nadab and Abihu thought, but oddly they were struck down for offering something "which he had not commanded them."

That's why the Westminster Confession says (chapter 21) "[T]he acceptable way of worshipping the true God is instituted by Himself, and so limited by His own revealed will, that He may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representation, or any other way not prescribed in the holy Scripture."


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## Jake (Mar 28, 2016)

StephenG said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> > Our culture is uncomfortable with silence and has come to consider simply listening to a single voice boring. To media-minded musicians and performers especially, a soundtrack enhances everything.
> ...



Well presumably the officers of your church do believe in the RPW since its in your church's confession, despite this practice.


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## Ed Walsh (Mar 28, 2016)

StephenG said:


> I do not find it distracting but I don't just love it either, and I don't know of anyone in the congregation who would say it was distracting.



I would be much more concerned if you, or anyone, actually found it edifying. This kind of emotion building is bad news any way you look at it.


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## StephenG (Mar 28, 2016)

Like I said, I don't find it particularly helpful either. 
Not looking to get into an argument about the RPW just now, but thank you all for the comments. I will say that our worship is certainly not a squishy "do whatever helps you connect" style, however, there are no instructions regarding piano music during prayers in Scripture (obviously). But you've all left me with something to put in my pipe and smoke, so to speak.


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## Jack K (Mar 28, 2016)

StephenG said:


> I'm of the persuasion (not subscribing to the RPW) that as long as something is reverent, not forbidden in Scripture, and helps us to worship God in Spirit and in truth, then it is not necessarily a bad thing. We love our pianist!



If you reflect on it, you may find that you actually do agree with the principle that we should worship God only as he has commanded. Without that principle, worship quickly devolves into "whatever makes me feel worshipful is good," and that doesn't fit with the "in spirit and in truth" description Jesus gave. There are many of us who agree with the regulative principle but don't necessarily agree that one application is to get rid of the pianist. There's a fair amount of variety in application among those who hold to the principle.


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## StephenG (Mar 28, 2016)

Jack K said:


> StephenG said:
> 
> 
> > I'm of the persuasion (not subscribing to the RPW) that as long as something is reverent, not forbidden in Scripture, and helps us to worship God in Spirit and in truth, then it is not necessarily a bad thing. We love our pianist!
> ...



You're right of course. I agree that all the _elements_ of corporate worship are prescribed in Scripture, but I also think there is room for variety; for example, when the piano is to be played. My previous comment was not well-stated.
I like what Rev. Derek Thomas has to say on the subject.


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## VictorBravo (Mar 28, 2016)

Jack K said:


> I'm no fan of mood music during readings and prayers. But I wonder if it's too simple to suggest that its recent appearance in some Presbyterian churches is due to a Finney-model, Second Awakening influence.



I'd take it back several more centuries. "Mood music" was elevated to a high art in the medieval Roman Catholic church. That's one of the reasons Zwingli was nervous about any music in worship.

I'm a former church organist and I still write music. "Mood music" for worship has been around for a long time--I dare say probably since Jubal in Genesis 4.


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## Jack K (Mar 28, 2016)

VictorBravo said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> > I'm no fan of mood music during readings and prayers. But I wonder if it's too simple to suggest that its recent appearance in some Presbyterian churches is due to a Finney-model, Second Awakening influence.
> ...



That sounds like a correct way to think.


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## jwithnell (Mar 28, 2016)

Add to that, some of us have a hard time choosing the "channel" we want to hear -- the reader and the music hit us as a jarble.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Mar 28, 2016)

It seems very odd to me. Almost like the music starting up in the middle of an award show acceptance speech--letting the guy know its time to shut up and sit down, though I'm sure that's not the idea. 

The problem I have with this is that it is another symptom of the mindset that says that the public worship of God should be some kind of musical or theatrical production complete with segues and background music. The prospect of moments of silence in a service conducted with unadorned simplicity utterly petrifies some people.


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## Reepicheep (Apr 1, 2016)

Someone suggested "_Eye of the Tiger_" during the opening processional.... The idea was rejected.


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## PicardyThird (Apr 1, 2016)

Reepicheep said:


> Someone suggested "_Eye of the Tiger_" during the opening processional.... The idea was rejected.



What's sad is that I know people who would be okay with that. I've seen Disney songs and Livin' on a Prayer sung in a teen camp worship setting. "As long as it gets people excited for worship, who cares?"

I generally don't like soft music during prayer or Scripture reading, as in the evangelical circles I grew up in it was used (if I may say so) manipulatively to stir emotions and create a sense of the Holy Spirit being there in worship.


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## Tom Hart (Apr 1, 2016)

PicardyThird said:


> I generally don't like soft music during prayer or Scripture reading, as in the evangelical circles I grew up in it was used (if I may say so) manipulatively to stir emotions and create a sense of the Holy Spirit being there in worship.



That is precisely how I feel! Many evangelical churches, broadly speaking, use music to manipulate mood in order to give some impression of the presence of the Holy Spirit. ('Well, if I can feel something, it means something's happening, right?')

I strongly object to music during prayer. (I've never heard of it during a sermon.) Honestly, it makes it difficult to pray. How am I supposed to focus on God when Chris Tomlin is yammering in the background?

Sadly, here in Korea it seems that silent prayer is virtually unheard of. It seems a symptom of shallow theology of worship and prayer.

They want to think it's the Spirit, but if you ask me, He is quenched by a misguided attempt to welcome Him.


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## Edward (Apr 1, 2016)

Reepicheep said:


> Someone suggested "Eye of the Tiger" during the opening processional.... The idea was rejected.


LSU fan during football season?


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## N. Eshelman (Apr 1, 2016)

If they just say, "It's circumstantial" then the conversation ends there... I mean, who are you to judge.  

1. Special music during offering 
2. Mood music leading into pastoral prayer 
3. Mood music for the Scriptures
4. ANY music when the congregation is not singing. 

#AllTheSame


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 1, 2016)

PicardyThird said:


> Reepicheep said:
> 
> 
> > Someone suggested "_Eye of the Tiger_" during the opening processional.... The idea was rejected.
> ...



We sang "With a Little Help From My Friends" by the Beatles at young camp when I was in High school.


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