# Does regeneration and faith occur simultaneously?



## ladodgers6 (Jan 7, 2012)

I have read different Reformers,and not all agree on this point.Some Reformers believe that Faith comes after rebirth because its the fruit of it.Some believe that it occurs simultaneously.Some believe that regeneration occurs when the Gospel is preached.What are your thoughts out there?


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## Herald (Jan 7, 2012)

Jesse,

While I believe regeneration precedes faith, the gap between the two is indiscernible.


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## Pergamum (Jan 7, 2012)

Regeneration precedes faith logically, but does not need to do so chronologically (when God moves the wheel, all the spokes move at the same time).


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## Peairtach (Jan 7, 2012)

Saving faith in Christ is the reflex action of a regenerated heart.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 7, 2012)

Regeneration provokes not only faith but repentance as well. It is the regenerated heart that turns from the sin which condemns and embraces Christ as its only hope. The two ideas taken together are grouped under the header conversion in the _ordo salutis_. One could say, then, that regeneration logically precedes conversion. With respect to timeframe, one example would be Acts 2 where men are cut to the heart, respond in despair of their sin, and turn in faith to Christ. We can see the contours of the Spirit's work in men's hearts but it remains among the hidden things in terms of precise operation.


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## moral necessity (Jan 7, 2012)

Adding to what my brothers said, remember that, when you read the Reformers' writings, the word "regeneration" is used in either a "narrow sense" or a "broad sense". More often than not, they speak of it in the broad sense, which means the entire work of God in the restoration of a person, encompassing new birth, justification and sanctification. The narrow sense is the initial work of the Lord in imparting the Spirit and the seeds of his graces into the person, of which such fruits will bear such as faith and repentance. 

See the work of Peter Van Mastricht entitled A Treatise on Regeneration for an in-depth analysis of the narrow sense of the word, found here: 

Christianbook.com: A Treatise on Regeneration: Peter Van Mastricht: 9781573581332

Blessings!


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Jan 7, 2012)

Herald said:


> Jesse,
> 
> While I believe regeneration precedes faith, the gap between the two is indiscernible.



This is how I have understood it, as well.


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## ladodgers6 (Jan 7, 2012)

I also believe that Regeneration precedes Faith,because 2 Cor. 2:4 says "that the man without Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God,for they are fololishness to him,and he cannot understand them,because they are spiritually discerned."
I also believe that sinners love the darkness and hate the light,so a radical change from a divine act is needed.I was asked if hearing the Word of God,can cause regeneration? Scriptures being used are Gal 3:2,"I would like to learn just one thing from you;Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law,or by believing what you heard?

James 1:18,"He chose to give us birth through the word of truth,that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created."

I Peter 1:23-25,"For you have been born again,not of perishable seed,but of imperishable,through the living and enduring word of God.For,All men are like grass,and all their glory is like the flower of the field;the grass withers and the flowers fall,but the word of the Lord stands forever."

I also believe that not everyone who hears the Gospel are regenerated,so what are your thoughts out there?


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## Dennis1963 (Jan 8, 2012)

Herald said:


> Jesse,
> 
> While I believe regeneration precedes faith, the gap between the two is indiscernible.


I agree with this answer.

To speak of an order makes sense in, there can be no faith without regeneration, and faith is not the cause of regeneration. 

Personally, I believe the regenerate has been given the gift of faith through regeneration, it's part of it so to speak, a package deal. After saying this, I do believe it is simultaneous.


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