# "We're Having a Revival at our church this week!"



## JBaldwin (Mar 30, 2008)

"We're Having a Revival at our church this week." I hear this so often in my neck of the woods that I have to keep myself from laughing out loud when I hear it. 

This morning while I was on my way home from worship, I turned on the radio to see what music was playing on the local Baptist channel. After the warbling duo came a lovely rendition of an old hymn by William Cowper. One of the lines of the hymn jumped out at me: "Where is the blessedness I knew, When first I saw the Lord?" 

While I am not attempting to analyse what Cowper was thinking when he wrote the hymn, I did think about all the "revivals" that happen in churches around here. Every church has at least one a year, and many of them have two and three a year. These are week long events where the pastor invites and evangelist in to "revive" the church. 

I attended this type meetings as a youth, and I remember that we were encouraged to bring our lost friends. Droves of folks would walk the aisle and make decisions, and there would be happy times. Many of these folks never darkened the doors of the church again, and often at the next "revival" the folks who did stick around and join the church were looking for a repeat experience in the next "revival".

As I thought about Cowper's words and the large number of revival meetings taking place every year in my community, I came to some conclusions:

1. If you have decision-based salvation, then you will have a point-in-time "happy" experience to which you will always be looking back and to which you will want repeat--hence, the need for "revival" 

2. If Christ has choosen you, and you came to Him because He called you, then you will always be looking back to Him when you need to be revived. The joy will return every time you look to Him. No need for revival meetings. 

Any thoughts about this?


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 30, 2008)

I'm convinced that these churches may have good Gospel intentions, but that the Revival Meetings - and their continued popularity - should be understood more in fellowship terms. 

"Revival meetings" are primarily fun events in which all or most of the folks in the church pitch in and come together to have a good time "in the Lord."


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## Herald (Mar 30, 2008)

There is nothing intrinsically wrong with a revival. The problem is that revivals often center around an emotional response. Some churches are better than others at counseling and discipleship. Success is measured by the number of responses. Israel was called to revival but it was seen in the proclamation of the Law, followed by obedience (Nehemiah 8). A church that has the right view of repentance will preach "revival" weekly, calling for repentance and obedience.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Mar 30, 2008)

JBaldwin said:


> "We're Having a Revival at our church this week."



A good addition to this thread:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/11-things-you-will-never-hear-pb-4003/index2.html


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## MICWARFIELD (Mar 30, 2008)

I grew up in pentecostal circles and heard this term often. In fact, I remember naming my first pet (a rabbit) "Revival" when I was 4. I wasnt sure what it meant, but I had been hearing that word a lot.

I think its funny that we used to actually "schedule" revival. They used to always say "We're having a REVIVAL tomorrow evening at 6:00pm".


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## timmopussycat (Mar 30, 2008)

JBaldwin said:


> "We're Having a Revival at our church this week."
> snip...
> 
> This morning while I was on my way home from worship, I turned on the radio to see what music was playing on the local Baptist channel. After the warbling duo came a lovely rendition of an old hymn by William Cowper. One of the lines of the hymn jumped out at me: "Where is the blessedness I knew, When first I saw the Lord?"
> ...



1. A distinction needs to be made between two meanings of "revival"
a) the newer meaning from Finney to today "revival" = special church services we can plan and hold to i) draw people to Christ and ii) revitalize the church. This has been called "revivalisim" and several things are known about it. First, the rate of "conversions" is common to all and a small % of the hearers second, extraordinary means are used: third, if the plan is not followed the results will vary; and fourth, after such a "revival" the participating churches are exhausted.
or
b) the older meaning from about 1735 to 1825 "revival" = a God wrought quickening in the lives of local churches and individual Christians leading to noticable increases in evangelistic effectiveness as measured by conversions even though nothing has changed in the means used. Sometimes such events can be relatively small as was the first revival in Northampton Mass. in 1735, but sometimes they can be massive. At least 100,000 people (1/4 of the total Welsh population) are known to have been converted in Wales in the year 1859, and most joined the churches and remained solid members. 

I utterly reject revivalism and pray for revival.

Will the joy return every time we look to Christ? Not necessarily. Even if Christ has chosen his people who came because he called, they may not always have joy when looking to him. Sin may get in the way and when it does, Cowper's hymn, in principle has the right idea when it hints at the need for self examination for "sins that made thee mourn and drove thee from my breast." But it is important to recognize that God does not always lead us in joy and there will be times when God exercises His...consecrated child in the ways of adult godliness, as he exercised Job, and some of the psalmists, and the addressees of the Epistle to the Hebrews by exposing them to strong attacks from the world, the flesh, and the devil, so that their powers of resistance might greater and their character as men of God becomes stronger." (J. I. Packer, _Knowing God_ p. 278) We need to be ready for the following experience ourselves and to minister to godly friends who encounter it, because sooner or later many of us will. 

I asked the Lord that I might grow,
In faith and love and every grace,
Might more of His salvation know,
And seek more earnestly His face.

It was He who taught me thus to pray,
And He I trust has answered prayer.
But it has been in such a way,
As almost drove me to despair.

I hoped that in some favored hour,
At once He'd answer my request.
And by His love's constraining power,
Subdue my sins and give me rest.

Instead of this, He made me feel,
The hidden evils of my heart.
And let the angry powers of hell,
Assault my soul in every part.

Yes, more with His own hand, He seemed,
Intent to aggravate my woe.
Crossed all the fair designs I schemed,
Blasted my gourds, and laid me low.

"Lord, why is this?" I trembling cried.
Will You pursue Your worm to death?"
"This is the way" the Lord replied,
"I answer prayer for grace and strength."

"These inward trials I employ,
From self, and pride, to set you free;
And break your schemes of earthly joy,
That you may find thy all in Me."
—John Newton


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 30, 2008)

I agree, in the main, with Tim's distinction. Most revival meetings are manufactured. It's almost as if God is obligated to come on the basis of the title of the meeting and, because you've gone through the proper measures and "invoked the deity", the blessing of revival is sure to come.

I believe God has ordained ordinary means to spread His Kingdom and that includes the regular, faithful preaching of His Word, administration of the Sacraments, and Church discipline to build up His Church. In His Providence, He may visit the Church with an extraordinary outpouring of grace from those means but when we neglect the God-ordained ordinary means in constant pursuit of extra-ordinary events we forsake the way of discipleship and the Church starts to take on the character of the wicked and perverse that are constantly seeking signs.


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## JBaldwin (Mar 30, 2008)

Tim I really appreciated what you had to say, and thanks for the Newton poem. 



> Will the joy return every time we look to Christ? Not necessarily. Even if Christ has chosen his people who came because he called, they may not always have joy when looking to him. Sin may get in the way and when it does, Cowper's hymn, in principle has the right idea when it hints at the need for self examination for "sins that made thee mourn and drove thee from my breast." But it is important to recognize that God does not always lead us in joy and there will be times when God exercises His...consecrated child in the ways of adult godliness, as he exercised Job, and some of the psalmists, and the addressees of the Epistle to the Hebrews by exposing them to strong attacks from the world, the flesh, and the devil, so that their powers of resistance might greater and their character as men of God becomes stronger." (J. I. Packer, Knowing God p. 278) We need to be ready for the following experience ourselves and to minister to godly friends who encounter it, because sooner or later many of us will.



You are right, when you say if there is sin in our hearts, there is no joy before the Lord. I would argue, however, that joy is not the same as the passing feeling of happiness, and therefore, we may find joy in our suffering, even though the joy may come later than sooner in the whole process. 

So I guess I am not really disagreeing with you, but maybe clarifying. Frankly, if it were not for the joy I know will be at the end each trial the Lord takes me through, I would loose heart.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Mar 30, 2008)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> JBaldwin said:
> 
> 
> > "We're Having a Revival at our church this week."
> ...





Thank you. That was a great thread. You guys had too much fun before I joined!


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## Ivan (Mar 30, 2008)

I have been in the pastoral ministry since 1983 and I have never had what is being described here as revival meetings. As a Southern Baptist, how did I get away from that? This is what I did. Southern Baptists have what is called the _January Bible Study_, a particular book of the Bible is chosen to be studied each year. 

I dropped the "January" and either called it Winter or Spring Bible Confernce. I would enlisted a great Bible teacher/preacher/pastor that I trusted and brought him in to teach/preach the conference. We gave them about a total of ten hours, not that much but about all the congregation could tolerate in a four day period. That satisfied my churches. 

Maranatha church understands my outlook on using the word "revival". They understand what I'm saying and they support me. This coming Fall we will have a Bible Conference with my friend Roger Ellsworth. We haven't determined the subject of the Conference, but it just might be REVIVAL!


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## DMcFadden (Mar 30, 2008)

Revival? Really? That's wonderful! And real revival comes so seldom in history that we should be grateful for it when it surfaces in our time. Oh, . . . wait a minute . . . I guess that isn't what you were saying, is it? Never mind.


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## Ivan (Mar 30, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Revival? Really? That's wonderful! And real revival comes so seldom in history that we should be grateful for it when it surfaces in our time. Oh, . . . wait a minute . . . I guess that isn't what you were saying, is it? Never mind.



Well, the subject of. But perhaps God will be gracious and send showers of blessings.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 31, 2008)

My Brother-in-law is a Revival Preacher that travels internationally. He aint sure what to make of me. Especially since I started leading everyone to Christ in our Family before he ever heard of Christ. 

He is not sure what to do with my Doctrines of Grace or Covenant Theology.


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## Pergamum (Mar 31, 2008)

Most people need Vival before they can have a REvival.

Most people who claim to have "back-slidden" never slid forward in the first place.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Mar 31, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Most people who claim to have "back-slidden" never slid forward in the first place.



Interesting point, Perg.

Also, very  .


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 31, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Most people need Vival before they can have a REvival.
> 
> Most people who claim to have "back-slidden" never slid forward in the first place.



 and "extra-ordinary" measures that supplant the Gospel with "decisions" are in, large part, the reason why people remain dead.


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## Pergamum (Mar 31, 2008)

Most religion is an inoculation against the truth. It is almost like people build up antibodies to Christ.


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## bookslover (Mar 31, 2008)

"Revival" implies that there is something to revive...

Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached a sermon series on revival in 1959; the sermons were later published in book form. He makes the important distinction between "revival" and "revivalism." It's the same distinction Iain Murray makes in his book by that title.

Revivals - something else we can so grateful to Finney for...


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## Ivan (Mar 31, 2008)

bookslover said:


> "Revival" implies that there is something to revive...
> 
> Martyn Lloyd-Jones preached a sermon series on revival in 1959; the sermons were later published in book form. He makes the important distinction between "revival" and "revivalism." It's the same distinction Iain Murray makes in his book by that title.
> 
> Revivals - something else we can so grateful to Finney for...


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## JBaldwin (Mar 31, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Most religion is an inoculation against the truth. It is almost like people build up antibodies to Christ.



So true, and so sad. It's terrible where we are. Everyone is a "christian", everyone goes to church, yet open sin is rampant. Teen pregnancy, unwed mothers, divorces, child abuse, spousal abuse and alcoholism are rampant. Last night at our prayer meeting, someone prayed, "Lord how do we reach these people?" We speak of Christ to them, and they look at us with blank stares and say, I'm already a Christian, I go to church, and I got saved at the revival last year. 

And, of course, the only answer to that prayer is that God must open their hearts. Nothing we can say will change their minds.


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## Red Beetle (Mar 31, 2008)

*Herman Hanko wrote a nice essay titled, "Ought The Church To Pray For Revival?"
Here is the link:*

Trinity Foundation: Explaining God, man, Bible, salvation, philosophy, theology.


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## govols (Apr 1, 2008)

You may get in trouble with PETA and other animal lover groups because it is still too cold to bring out the snakes and such.


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## holyfool33 (Apr 1, 2008)

The idea that you can some how crate a revival and then bottle it like paten medicine is laughable. Also it's just warmed over Finnyism


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