# How Much Time do You Spend in Prayer Daily?



## satz (Nov 14, 2007)

Just curious if anyone would be willing to share how much time (on average) do you spend praying on a daily basis?


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## LadyCalvinist (Nov 14, 2007)

Not nearly enough. It really depends on how much I have sinned. It is at those times when I am most conscious of sin that I pray longest and most earnestly.


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## Blueridge Believer (Nov 14, 2007)

None of us pray enough for sure. By God's grace have tried to follow what I believe to be a biblical example and have a time of prayer morning, noon and evening. Sometimes they are extended but most of the time they are shorter periods of time. How much time I don't know for I have never timed it. That would weird me out.


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## VictorBravo (Nov 14, 2007)

Blueridge Baptist said:


> None of us pray enough for sure. By God's grace have tried to follow what I believe to be a biblical example and have a time of prayer morning, noon and evening. Sometimes they are extended but most of the time they are shorter periods of time. How much time I don't know for I have never timed it. That would weird me out.



Similar here. I pray with my wife in the morning and evening, but have never timed it. Pray by myself several times each day. It usually isn't long nor is it deep, and I regret that.

But there are days on my long commute when I find myself praying most of the way--I want to say I'm kidding but some days it is literal.


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## Davidius (Nov 14, 2007)

What does the bible have to say about the importance of regular private prayer times that are long and deep? This has been a source of great legalism for myself and many others and I've come to think that the bible puts the emphasis on our growth as an outworking of our participation in the public means of grace in faith. Just today I spoke with a friend on campus who was complaining about her friend who tried to give spiritual advice "without having met with the Lord yet today." What is the biblical case for the _necessity_ of such personal piety?

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## Gloria (Nov 14, 2007)

Not enough.


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## MrMerlin777 (Nov 14, 2007)

Put plainly, and pardon the redundancy, not nearly enough.


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## Gloria (Nov 14, 2007)

Blueridge Baptist said:


> None of us pray enough for sure. By God's grace have tried to follow what I believe to be a biblical example and have a time of prayer morning, noon and evening. Sometimes they are extended but most of the time they are shorter periods of time. How much time I don't know for I have never timed it. *That would weird me out*.



Me too.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 14, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> What does the bible have to say about the importance of regular private prayer times that are long and deep? This has been a source of great legalism for myself and many others and I've come to think that the bible puts the emphasis on our growth as an outworking of our participation in the public means of grace in faith. Just today I spoke with a friend on campus who was complaining about her friend who tried to give spiritual advice "without having met with the Lord yet today." What is the biblical case for the _necessity_ of such personal piety?



What does this mean David? _the bible puts the emphasis on our growth as an outworking of our participation in the public means of grace in faith._

I do not know what the public means of grace in faith is. Now, it sounds very scholarly and pious in itself 


The Apostle Paul is crystal clear on how prayer ranks in the life of the believer. It is indispensable.

Myself, meditating on certain verses, and running them through my head occupies my prayer life mostly.


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## JBaldwin (Nov 14, 2007)

Since we are told to pray without ceasing, how does the fit into all of this?


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## No Longer A Libertine (Nov 14, 2007)

Prayer has been sinfully absent in my life recently because of fatigue, hectic schedule and sloth.


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## VictorBravo (Nov 14, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> What does the bible have to say about the importance of regular private prayer times that are long and deep? This has been a source of great legalism for myself and many others and I've come to think that the bible puts the emphasis on our growth as an outworking of our participation in the public means of grace in faith. Just today I spoke with a friend on campus who was complaining about her friend who tried to give spiritual advice "without having met with the Lord yet today." What is the biblical case for the _necessity_ of such personal piety?



Well, my short and undeep prayers usually fall into the "Lord help me through this problem" or "Sustain me". I think it is a good thing to remind ourselves, however briefly, of our dependence on God. But Scripture gives us a whole bunch of examples of prayer and meditation that goes beyond this sort of simple cry for help. 

One example is Psalm 63:

O God, thou art my God; early will I seek thee: my soul thirsteth for thee, my flesh longeth for thee in a dry and thirsty land, where no water is;
To see thy power and thy glory, so as I have seen thee in the sanctuary.
Because thy lovingkindness is better than life, my lips shall praise thee.
Thus will I bless thee while I live: I will lift up my hands in thy name. 
My soul shall be satisfied as with marrow and fatness; and my mouth shall praise thee with joyful lips:
When I remember thee upon my bed, and meditate on thee in the night watches.Because thou hast been my help, therefore in the shadow of thy wings will I rejoice. 
My soul followeth hard after thee: thy right hand upholdeth me. 
But those that seek my soul, to destroy it, shall go into the lower parts of the earth.
They shall fall by the sword: they shall be a portion for foxes. 
But the king shall rejoice in God; every one that sweareth by him shall glory: but the mouth of them that speak lies shall be stopped.


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## Davidius (Nov 14, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> CarolinaCalvinist said:
> 
> 
> > What does the bible have to say about the importance of regular private prayer times that are long and deep? This has been a source of great legalism for myself and many others and I've come to think that the bible puts the emphasis on our growth as an outworking of our participation in the public means of grace in faith. Just today I spoke with a friend on campus who was complaining about her friend who tried to give spiritual advice "without having met with the Lord yet today." What is the biblical case for the _necessity_ of such personal piety?
> ...



I assure you that I wasn't trying to sound pious or intellectual with my statement about the means of grace. That is just the confessional language for the ways by which God communicates grace to us. I'm sure the phrase or something like it can be found in the Heidelberg Confession as well.

Does the scripture talk about meeting with God other than "in the assembly"? Paul talks about gathering together, singing psalms to each other, hearing the preached word, communion, etc. I've never seen much of an argument made for the modern-day primacy of individual devotional experience over corporate worship and the means of grace other than saying "hey look, Jesus went off by himself to pray." I certainly agree that it's noble to take time to pray for various needs. Sometimes I just get wary because I am prone to constantly judge myself on the basis of the frequency or "depth" of my "quiet times," surrounded by people who say things like I quoted above, that someone who hasn't "met with the Lord today" can't add anything edifying to a religious conversation. 




> The Apostle Paul is crystal clear on how prayer ranks in the life of the believer. It is indispensable.



I don't disagree that prayer is discussed in the New Testament. But again, what is clear is that our main sources of growth/sanctification are the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments, both of which take place during public worship. Forgive me if I'm being reactionary to my previous experience in the charismatic church but I just get easily on edge when people start making what appears (to me at least) to be an unnecessarily big deal over prolonged times of personal prayer.


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## Augusta (Nov 14, 2007)

I was terrible about prayer for a long time. Especially just after embracing the DOG. I have finally settled into an habitual prayer and scripture reading time every morning. Now I don't know how I did without it. The length of prayer time depends on my prayer list for that day. Some days I don't get to it, like this morning, because of some crisis or other. This morning we had to euthanize our beloved cat Ursula who we had for 10 yrs.  It really is a blessing to me that I look forward to now and miss terribly if I don't get it. Then there are the meal prayers and things that come up during the average day.


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## Augusta (Nov 14, 2007)

As far as scripture how about these:

1 Timothy 5:5
Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day.

1 Peter 2:2
As newborn babes, desire the sincere milk of the word, that ye may grow thereby:


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## JM (Nov 14, 2007)

I'm in and out of prayer all day, but it's still not enough...


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## Wannabee (Nov 14, 2007)

Fundy Joe says: said:


> As a tither I make it a point to read my Bible and pray a minimum of 2 hours and 24 minutes each and every day. Everyone should. If you don't then you don't really love Jesus, are selfish and most likely are lost. You perceive your sufficiency in yourself. You need to change your ways sinner. Repent!


Okay, okay, not nearly enough. I'm burdened by my lack of prayer. I find that the more I'm involved in people's lives I pray for them throughout the day, and am reminded of them during times set aside for meditation/devotion/prayer.


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## blhowes (Nov 15, 2007)

JBaldwin said:


> Since we are told to pray without ceasing, how does the fit into all of this?


Here's what Gill has to say about praying without ceasing:
1Th 5:17 - Pray without ceasing. Not that saints should be always on their knees, or ever lifting up their hands, and vocally calling upon God; this is not required of them, and would clash with, and break in upon other parts of religious worship, and the duties of civil life, which are to be attended to, as well as this, and besides would be impracticable; for however willing a spiritual man might be to be engaged in this work always, yet the flesh is weak, and would not be able to bear it; and it requires food and drink, sleep and rest, for its refreshment and support; for all which there must be time allowed, as well as for other actions of animal life, and the business of a man's calling. But the meaning is, that believers should be daily, and often found in the performance of this duty; for as their wants daily return upon them, and they are called to fresh service, and further trials and exercises, they have need of more grace, strength, and assistance, and therefore should daily pray for it; and besides certain times both in the closet, and in the family, in which they should attend the throne of grace, there is such a thing as mental prayer, praying in the heart, private ejaculations of the soul, which may be sent up to heaven, while a man is engaged in the affairs of life.​


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## ruel (Nov 15, 2007)

Just want to share my thoughts about this. No time to reflect on what have been said. I think almost every Christian acknowledges that prayer is both a lifestyle and a spiritual discipline. Personally, my emphasis on prayer as a lifestyle tends to a kind of life that is loose and indiscipline. On the other hand, thinking of prayer as a spiritual discipline has this inclination in me to be legalistic and "self-righteous" somehow. I do not know a clear cut answer to this tension but i still maintain that Christian life as whole is a life of prayer. But this does not negate the fact that we have to maintain a regular schedule to devote ourselves in prayer. Another thought that comes to my mind is related to the zeal of the Reformed tradition in the discipline of scholarship and study. If I ma not mistaken, a Jewish philosopher by the name of Abraham Heschel once said and I paraphrased that if only our zeal for prayer could only equal the time that we devote in our study and academic scholarship, this world, the church and society, would be in a better state than what we have at present (By the way, this is not what Heschel actually said but I think I expressed his central idea). I say this to myself as a reminder.


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## ruel (Nov 15, 2007)

Also want to emphasize what have been mentioned in the previous posts about prayer as a means of grace. For me this would mean that prayer is a channel for the grace of God to flow into our lives. Our society needs the grace of God. The church needs the grace of God. The grace of God is not confined only in matters of a one time event of experiencing the salvation of God, I mean our conversion experience in the past as a result of the regenerating work of the Spirit and believing in the Gospel though I believe that conversion is a lifetime experience. In this second sense that I use the word "conversion," we need a lot of grace. And prayer is the means, the channel to shower that grace upon us. I understand this grace in its various manifestations such as the grace of humility, the grace of perseverance, of love, of zeal in kingdom service, and even the grace to maintain both a discipline life of prayer and to live the Christian life as prayer itself in its entirety. I have this question in my mind. I love the church and included in this love is to speak what I believe concerning what I see regarding the current state of the church. My perspective is possibly wrong and confined and perhaps does not really describe the current condition of the church. My question is related to the current life of the church. I am thinking, why is there not much zeal, passion, love, humility,joy,... in the church today? All of these one way or another is a result of understanding and expriencing the greatness and power of God's grace. And such understanding and experience aside from other means of grace such as the word and the sacraments, prayer is indeed a channel a means for the church to experience the abundant grace of God. In short, why is the life of Christ not that evident in the life of the church today? Is not that one among the possible reasons is our negligence to use the tool that God has given us to experience his grace, which is prayer? Again, I say all of these to myself.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 15, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> I assure you that I wasn't trying to sound pious or intellectual with my statement about the means of grace. That is just the confessional language for the ways by which God communicates grace to us. I'm sure the phrase or something like it can be found in the Heidelberg Confession as well.



I was being sarcastic David. Please do not be offended.



CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Does the scripture talk about meeting with God other than "in the assembly"? Paul talks about gathering together, singing psalms to each other, hearing the preached word, communion, etc. I've never seen much of an argument made for the modern-day primacy of individual devotional experience over corporate worship and the means of grace other than saying "hey look, Jesus went off by himself to pray." I certainly agree that it's noble to take time to pray for various needs. Sometimes I just get wary because I am prone to constantly judge myself on the basis of the frequency or "depth" of my "quiet times," surrounded by people who say things like I quoted above, that someone who hasn't "met with the Lord today" can't add anything edifying to a religious conversation.



Well david, you have not looked hard enough then. If our relationship with God is based soley on an hour a week on Sunday, maybe 2, then we are at best going to continue to limp through life as a believer. 





CarolinaCalvinist said:


> I don't disagree that prayer is discussed in the New Testament. But again, what is clear is that our main sources of growth/sanctification are the preaching of the word and administration of the sacraments, both of which take place during public worship. Forgive me if I'm being reactionary to my previous experience in the charismatic church but I just get easily on edge when people start making what appears (to me at least) to be an unnecessarily big deal over prolonged times of personal prayer.



If you are looking at this through the grid of your charismatic experience, it is no wonder your reaction is as such. Yet a wrong emphasis one way does not allow one to swing the pendulum completely in the opposite direction. I doubt our sanctification depends on meeting on the Lord's day and receiving the sacraments. Actually we are only left with one, the Supper, and if this is done quarterly, then again we are miserable creatures. I could take your line of reasoning and go to 'church' daily and receive the supper daily, now I know you would disagree this would make me more sanctified.

5"And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to *pray standing in the synagogues* and on the street corners to *be seen by men*. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. 6But when you pray, go into your room, close the door and pray to your Father, who is unseen. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you. 7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

So it is not clear at all that are main resource of sanctification is Sunday Service. It is one, but definately not the biggest. Scripture most certainly talks about "meeting with god" everywhere. He is not located in the temple anymore, or the cloud only. Christ is IN YOU. The emphasis, by whoever as proposed this elevation of corporate Sunday service as to being the only or the greater place to be with God is contrary to the written word. "Worship has ended, now service begins" should be a motto we follow continuously. 

SInce this thread is about personal prayer life, that is my focus, I am in no way discounting the biblical examples of corporate prayer. Which is very important also. Just magnifying personal prayer life becasue it is either distorted into some legalistic ritual or absent in the believer.

Other than the scripture you provided, where does the Apostle Paul emphasise corporate prayer during the worship service over a constant heavenly focused life in prayer? I cannot find one in a premature search in the Scriptures.

The wroship service is the beginning of our week to prepare us and give us nourishment. Yet 2 hours on Sunday cannot compare to 6 days and 22 hours the rest of the week...

Arthur Pink is indispensible here: OF which I hope he only not only disagrees with your "means of grace in faith during the assembly" quip, but also shows anyone who proposes this to be in error. For mine and your sake David

Private Prayer

by Arthur W. Pink

“But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly” (Matt. 6:6). Eight times in the space of this verse is the pronoun used in the singular number and the second person—a thing unique in all Scripture—as though to emphasize the indispensability, importance and value of private prayer. We are to pray in the closet as well as in the church: in fact if the former be neglected, it is not at all likely that the latter will be of much avail. He that is an attendee at the prayer meetings in order to be seen of men, and is not seen alone in his closet by God, is an hypocrite.* Private prayer is the test of our sincerity, the index to our spirituality, the principle means of growing in grace.* *Private prayer is the one thing, above all others, that Satan seeks to prevent, for he knows full well that if he can succeed at this point, the Christian will fail at every other.*

Alas, how remiss we have been, how sadly we have failed to discharge this duty, and what irreparable losers are we by this sinful neglect. Is it not high time that some of us heeded that word, “Consider your ways” (Hag. 1:5, 7)?! Shall this year witness a repetition of the sad failures of the past? Can we go on robbing God of His due, and our souls of the blessedness of communion with Him? The secret place of the Most High is one of vision, peace, joy. The closet is where strength is renewed, faith is quickened, graces are revived. It is not always the cares or pleasures of this world which are the hindering cause—some allow the discharge of public duties to prevent the performance of private ones. Beware, my reader, of being so busy in running from one meeting to another that personal dealings with God in secret are crowded out. Some are so busily engaged in reading, and preparing sermons, that private communion with God is prevented.

Not a few are puzzling their brains over prophecy when they should be on their knees before God. “The Devil knows he is no loser, and the curious soul but a little gainer, if he can but persuade him to spend most of his precious time in pouring over the mysteries and hidden things of God. He that affects to read the Revelation of John more than his plain Epistles, or Daniel’s prophecies more than David’s Psalms, and is more busy about reconciling different Scriptures than he is about mortifying of unruly lusts, or is set more upon vain speculation than upon things that make for edification—he is not the man that is cut out for closet prayer. Such as affect sublime notions, obscure expressions, and are men of abstract conceits, are but a company of wise fools, that will never take any delight to be with God in a corner. O how holy, happy, heavenly, and humble might many men have been, had they but spent half the time in closet prayer that they have spent in searching after those things that are hard to be understood” (Thomas Brooks, Puritan).

The most eminent saints, in Old and New Testament times, applied themselves to private prayer. “And Abram planted a grove in Beersheba, and called there on the name of the LORD, the everlasting God” (Gen. 21:33). Why did Abram plant that grove, but that he could have a secluded spot where he might pour out his soul before his Maker. “And Isaac went out to meditate in the field at the eventide” (Gen. 24:63): the Hebrew word for “meditate” also signifies to pray, and is elsewhere rendered “commune” and “pray.” So, too, Jacob, Moses, Samuel, David, Elijah, Hezekiah, etc., were men whose private devotions are recorded in Holy Writ. Concerning Daniel, we read, “he kneeled upon his knees three times a day, and prayed, and gave thanks before his God” (6:10)—busy as he must have been, he allowed not public duties to crowd out private devotions.

Christ Himself, when upon earth, did much exercise Himself in private prayer: ponder such passages as Matthew 14:23, Mark 1:35, 6:46, Luke 5:16, where it will be found that He retired “into a mountain,” “into a solitary place,” “into the wilderness” that He might be alone with God, free from disturbance and distraction. But why was He so much in private prayer? Another has suggested the following reasons. First, to put a very high honour and value upon the same: to enhance and magnify this duty. Second, that He might avoid all shows and appearances of ostentation and popular applause: He was very shy of the mere shadow of pride and vainglory. Third, to set us such a blessed pattern and gracious example that we should not content ourselves with public prayers only, nor with family prayers only, but that we should also apply ourselves to secret prayer. Fourth, that He might approve Himself to our understandings and consciences to be a merciful and faithful High Priest “who ever liveth to make intercession for us.”

* It is the exercising of ourselves in secret prayer which distinguishes us from hypocrites, who go through their religious exercises merely to be seen of men: Matthew 6:1, 2, 5, 16. **The hypocrite places a far higher value upon the applause of his fellows than he does upon the approbation of his Maker. The praise of men is his meat and drink. The outstanding mark of a hypocrite is that he is one thing in public, but quite another in private.* But the genuine Christian makes conscience of his prayer life, knows that God sees and hears him in secret, and cultivates communion with Him in the closet. The diligence with which we perform our private devotions is the criterion of our sincerity. We never read in Scripture that Pharaoh, King Saul, Judas, Demas, Simon Magus, and the scribes and Pharisees ever poured out their souls before the Lord in secret! The hypocrite is more concerned about a good name than a good life, of a reputation for piety than a clear conscience —not so God’s children. In secret we may more freely, fully, and safely, unbosom our souls to God than we can in the presence of our fellows. There is no danger in opening our heart and confessing in detail our vilest sins before God in a corner, but there might be a considerable hazard in doing so even before our fellow Christians. No one with wisdom and refinement would think of exposing his bodily ailments and diseases to any but his bosom friend or physician; neither should he make known his weaknesses and wickedness to any but to his best Friend, the Great Physician. There need be no restraint or reserve in confession when we are apart with God. It was when David was alone in the cave (see the Psalm heading) that he poured out his complaint and “showed Him his trouble” (Psa. 142:2). Observe carefully the repeated “every family apart” and “their wives apart” of Zechariah 12:12-14—to manifest not only the soundness of their sorrow, but to show their sincerity.

* It is striking to note that God has often granted the freest communications of Himself to those who were before Him in secret.* It was so with Moses on the mount, when Jehovah gave him the Law—and again when He gave him the pattern for the tabernacle. It was while Daniel was engaged in private prayer that God sent His angel to reveal to him the secrets of His counsel concerning the restoration of Jerusalem and the duration thereof even unto the Messiah (9:3, 21-27); as it was also during a season when he was alone before the Throne of Grace that God assured him he was “a man greatly beloved” (10:11, 19). It is in the closet that God usually bestows His sweetest and choicest blessings. Cornelius was highly commended and graciously rewarded upon the account of his private prayer (Acts 10:1-4). Peter was granted that wondrous vision concerning the Gentiles while praying alone (Acts 10:9-13).

Scripture records much to illustrate and demonstrate the great prevalence of private prayer. O the wonders that followed secret wrestling with God, the grand mercies that have been obtained, the judgments that have been diverted, the deliverances that have been secured! When Isaac was all alone entreating with God for a good wife, he met Rebekah (Gen. 24:63, 64). While Hezekiah was weeping and praying in private, God sent the prophet Isaiah to assure him that He would add unto his days fifteen years (Isa. 38:5). When Jonah was shut up in the whale’s belly, he was delivered in answer to his supplication (2:1-10). O the power of private prayer: it has issued in the dead being raised to life—1 Kings 17:18-22, 2 Kings 4:32-35. May the Holy Spirit graciously use these considerations to stir up writer and reader.

“My voice shalt Thou hear in the morning, O LORD; in the morning will I direct my prayer unto Thee, and will look up” (Psa. 5:3). Let this be our resolve, and, so long as we are spared, our practice, throughout the year we have just entered. It is both our wisdom and our duty to thus begin each day with God. “Should not a people seek unto the Lord their God?” Surely the light of nature dictates that we ought to do so, while the light of the Gospel affords us ample instruction and encouragement for the same. When He says to us “Seek ye My face,” should not our hearts answer as to One we love, “Thy face, LORD, will we seek” (Psa. 27:8)? But suppose our hearts have grown cold, and we have wickedly strayed from Him? Well, when He says “Return ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings,” should we not readily reply, “Behold, we come unto Thee, for Thou art the LORD our God” (Jer. 3:22)?

O my reader, is there not much that we need to say to the Lord our God, the One whom we serve? How many and important are the concerns which lie between us and Him. We are constantly dependent upon Him—all our expectation is from Him. Is not all our happiness for time and eternity bound up in His favour? Have we not need to seek His approbation—to seek Him with all our hearts; to beg as for our very lives that He will lift up the light of His countenance upon us, to plead Christ’s righteousness as that through which alone we can hope to obtain God’s lovingkindness (Psa. 71:16)?! Are we not conscious that we have deeply offended the Lord our God by our numerous and grievous sins, and have contracted defilement thereby? Should we not confess our folly and seek forgiveness and cleansing by the blood of Christ? Have we not received innumerable bounties and blessings from Him—must we not acknowledge the same, and return thanks and praise? Yes, prayer is the very least we can offer unto God.

Let us now make a few suggestions upon how this duty is to be performed. First, reverently. In all our approaches to God we should duly consider His exalted majesty and ineffable holiness, and humble ourselves before Him as Abraham did (Gen. 18:27). The word “direct my prayer unto Thee” (Psa. 5:3) signifies a fixedness of thought or close application of the mind. We need to set about the discharge of this duty solemnly, as those who have at heart something of great importance which we dare not trifle with. When we come before the Throne of Grace and address the Most High, we must not offer the sacrifice of fools: “be not rash with thy mouth, and let not thine heart be hasty to utter anything before God” (Eccl. 5:2). He that shoots an arrow at a mark directs it with a steady hand and fixed eye—so when engaging the heart to approach unto God, it must be disengaged from everything else. O to be able to say, “My heart is fixed, O God” (Psa. 57:7). See to it that the awe of God’s greatness be upon your soul together with a deep sense of your utter unworthiness.

Second, sincerely. We cannot be too strongly or too frequently warned against that mere external worship to which we are so constantly prone, and which is the bane of all spiritual good. Of old, Israel was charged with making mention of God’s name, “but not in truth” (Isa. 48:1). The desire of our heart must prompt and correspond to the petitions we present. How we need to beg God that this may be wrought into our spirits. How we need to search our hearts and see to it that we mean what we say, for “The LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh His name in vain” (Exo. 20:7). Form the habit of challenging yourself by inquiring, Am I consistent with myself when I invoke God, or do I think I can impose upon Him with hypocrisy. “The LORD is nigh unto all them that call upon Him, to all that call upon Him in truth” (Psa. 145:18). As an aid to this, ponder the high value of those spiritual things you ask for—your deep need of them—and inquire, Do I really desire the same?

Third, submissively—that is, subserviently to God’s glory and our own highest good. Our petitions should ever be presented with the provision, “If it be Thy will.” We are ever prone to act amiss and often know not “what manner of spirit we are of” (Luke 9:55). The prayer of faith includes submission as truly as it does confidence, for if the latter be without the former, it is presumption—and not faith. To pray in faith is not to ask in the certain belief that God will give us what we ask for, but rather that He will grant us what is wisest and best. If we knew assuredly beforehand that God would certainly give us the very things we ask for, we would have reason to be afraid to pray, for often we desire things which would prove a curse if we got them! Our wisdom as well as our duty is to pray, conditionally and submissively. We must bow before God’s sovereignty.

Fourth, confidently. There are some men, who because of their high station or known sternness towards all inferiors, we would be afraid to approach. And because we have none to introduce and speak a good word for us, we would therefore abandon the idea of speaking to them. But there is no reason why a believer should be discouraged from speaking to God—nay, He bids us “come boldly unto the Throne of Grace, that we may obtain mercy”: (Heb. 4:16). Let not, then, a sense of God’s greatness or holiness, nor a realization of your own entire unworthiness, deter you. Such are God’s compassions unto humble supplicants that even His terror should not make them afraid. It is directly against His revealed will that His people should frighten themselves thus. He would have them encourage themselves as children: “for ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father” (Rom. 8:15). By that very spirit of adoption we were brought into the nearness, freedom, and liberty of the children of God, and though we are still full of sin, yet, “we have an Advocate with the Father” (1 John 2:1).

Fifth, fervently. David said, “I entreated Thy favour with my whole heart” (Psa. 119:58). It is not sufficient that our tongues babble out a mere form—our hearts must be in this work—we are to be more concerned about the exercise of our affections than in the selection of our words. It is to be feared that we pray far more from our memories than our consciences. But let it be pointed out that fervency in prayer is not a working up of our animal spirits so that there is shouting and shaking of the body—actors work themselves up into a great heat to move their audience, and lawyers to impress a judge. Fervency is expressed in Scripture as a calling upon the name of the Lord (Rom. 10:13), a stretching out the hands toward Him (Job 11:13), a following hard after Him (Psa. 63:8), a laying hold of Him (Isa. 64:7), a pouring out the heart before Him (Psa. 62:8). It is a striving in prayer (Rom. 15:30). God hates lukewarmness. Note Daniel’s intensity: 9:19. David compared his prayers to “incense” (Psa. 141:2), and no incense was offered without fire!

Let us now anticipate an objection. I would be often in praying before God, but sin has so much power over me that it severs communion, and utterly quenches the spirit of prayer in my heart—I feel so polluted that it would be a mockery for me to appear before the thrice holy God. Ah, but God’s hearing of our prayers does not depend upon our sanctity—but upon Christ’s mediation: “I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for Mine holy name’s sake” (Ezek. 36:22). It is not because of what Christians are in themselves, but because of what they are in Christ, that God responds to their requests: “to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ” (1 Peter 2:5). When God answers our petitions it is not for our sakes, nor for our prayers’ sake, but for His Son’s sake: see Ephesians 4:32. Seek to remember, my distressed brethren, that you are a member of the mystical body of Christ, and as Luther said, “What man will cut off his nose because there is filth in it?”

The more desperate be our case, the greater is our need to pray: if grace in us be weak, the continued neglect of prayer will make it weaker. If our corruptions be strong, the omission of prayer will make them stronger. Sins which are bewailed never hinder the access and success of our petitions. Jonah was a man full of sinful passions, yet his prayers prevailed with God: (2:1, 2, 7, 10). David said, “iniquities prevail against me,” yet he at once added, “as for our transgressions, Thou shalt purge them away” (Psa. 65:3). On another occasion he said, “The LORD hath heard the voice of my weeping” (Psa. 6:8)— his very tears prayed! God hears the sighs and groanings of those who cannot put them into words. Then encourage yourself by the greatness of God’s mercy, His covenant promises, His Fatherhood, and by the answers you have received in the past.


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## Sydnorphyn (Nov 15, 2007)

*hummmmm*



satz said:


> Just curious if anyone would be willing to share how much time (on average) do you spend praying on a daily basis?



I answer that: To answer this question seems to violate Matthew chapters 5-7. 

Peace

Reactions: Rejoicing 1


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## turmeric (Nov 15, 2007)

Nicholas, I don't think David is suggesting that our growth comes "solely" from our corporate worship. The New Testament really doesn't seem to emphasize "quiet time" as much as some of us used to think, but it's still helpful to have one.

Augusta, sorry about your kitty!


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## Blueridge Believer (Nov 15, 2007)

I had my morning prayer as usual. I have lost my temper and sinned already and the day is still young. Pray for me.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 15, 2007)

turmeric said:


> Nicholas, I don't think David is suggesting that our growth comes "solely" from our corporate worship. The New Testament really doesn't seem to emphasize "quiet time" as much as some of us used to think, but it's still helpful to have one.
> 
> Augusta, sorry about your kitty!



I do not see how it doesnt. IT certainly does not emphasize worhsip above and beyond private prayer. Again, see the Pink article


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## BobVigneault (Nov 15, 2007)

I am amazed at your responses. The majority of you have set up a nebulous and unattainable quantity of prayer that would be sufficient to please God or make yourselves feel worthy that you have done enough. We, the reformed should have gotten beyond this long ago. Why does the question of prayer elicit so many guilty feelings?

Prayer is the act and attitude of acknowledging God in all we do. When we are stressed we pray and bring our troubles to God for there is no other place to bring them. You all do this.

We pray before we eat to acknowledge the giver of all good gifts and sustenance. You all do this.

We pray to intercede for a friend or loved one or pastor or church. I bet you all do this.

The rest of the time is living with an attitude that God is sovereign over all things, that we are fully encompassed by his watch care and love. Prayer is the conscious and unconscious awareness that in Him we live and move and have our being and THIS is prayer without ceasing. The Reformed should understand this before anyone else. 

The problem is we are so unconscious of our acceptance of God's sovereignty in all things that, like fish in water, we hardly realize that we are doing it.

I'm not trying to justify laziness but ya'll pray far more than you think you do. It is good that God's spirit is keeping your conscience tender and concerned for your spiritual sanctification. A true believer ought to question whether he is doing all things well for the glory of God. But don't turn prayerfulness into a test. If you believe in the total sovereignty of God then every breath you take is a prayer because you would quickly acknowledge that God gave you that breath.

Prayer is the spoken and unspoken confession of your heart, the innermost core of your being. Prayer is surrender to the revealed will of God.







JBaldwin said:


> Since we are told to pray without ceasing, how does the fit into all of this?


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## JBaldwin (Nov 15, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> I am amazed at your responses. The majority of you have set up a nebulous and unattainable quantity of prayer that would be sufficient to please God or make yourselves feel worthy that you have done enough. We, the reformed should have gotten beyond this long ago. Why does the question of prayer elicit so many guilty feelings?
> 
> Prayer is the act and attitude of acknowledging God in all we do. When we are stressed we pray and bring our troubles to God for there is no other place to bring them. You all do this.
> 
> ...



Amen!


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## Pergamum (Nov 15, 2007)

Okay, here is an honest answer:

Right now, on average, about ___ minutes per day.

Hey, that don;t sound like a lot, but I am not working for a wage here. I need not punch a clock.


Frequency but not length sometimes happens. Praying without ceasing seems to mean calling up several dozen 3 second prayers to heaven throughout the day. 




And what exactly IS prayer?

DO I have to be kneeling for it to work? Do I have to speak it? Can I just move my lips. Can I just do it in my mind and it still count? If so, than I pray a WHOLE lot, if a certain posture of the body but only of the heart is concerned. 

If I place stricter criteria on what passes for prayer,then I do not think I have kneeled or made the this-is-my-church-this-is-my steeple position with my hands but a few times in the last month. Hard to pray when your knees hurt (unless we're Catholic and we think God rewards brownie points for extra pain).


So, please, take me to lesson 1: what is prayer? Must I speak it. Or can I just think it? MUst I have a Bible in front of me, be kneeling? What IS prayer?


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## Pergamum (Nov 15, 2007)

Also, here is a follow up question: Can praying ever be sin?

If we stay at home and pray for 5 hous per day and end up short of food, is this sacrificing for prayer or just you being lazy and not tending to neccessities of life?

I am action oriented; why not pray as one walks, one drives, in addition to one or two periods of solitude per day?

I read of one man who prayed 7 hours every day. I couldn't help but wonder how his family, his job, etc got along. Can one pray TOO much?

Reactions: Rejoicing 1


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## BobVigneault (Nov 15, 2007)

There is so much prayer that we aren't aware of. When we do fall short the Holy Spirit makes up for our lack of fervor, focus and faith.



> Romans 8:26 Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27 And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.


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## etexas (Nov 15, 2007)

LadyCalvinist said:


> Not nearly enough. It really depends on how much I have sinned. It is at those times when I am most conscious of sin that I pray longest and most earnestly.


I am sad to say I pray more if I have sinned. We are called to pray at all times and in all "seasons". This is an area I need to work on. (I posted this prior to reading Dr. Bawb's post...what he wrote made me feel better!)


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## satz (Nov 15, 2007)

Thanks everyone... Some of that is really helpful.

Just to clarify, I was not intending to try to discover some 'magic number' of minutes we have to pray everyday (I'am sure everyone knew that). I was just asking as a sort of curiousity about what other godly christians are doing as a means to measure my own spiritual life. Thinking back, I do understand it is not something people would necessarily want to share in public.

Thanks again.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 15, 2007)

satz said:


> Just curious if anyone would be willing to share how much time (on average) do you spend praying on a daily basis?



Perhaps more if we all spent less time on the internet.


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## Margaret Roolker (Nov 15, 2007)

As Prayer is our life-line, so to speak, we can't really do without it, can we now?
We can pray, while alone, in our "closets", and devote ourselves completely to being with the Lord, and pray, and listen to Him. But there are also times, while working (vacuuming, for me, for instance) or driving - you name it, that our thoughts can be focused on God, and there is a subtle awareness of thinking our thoughts before Him. I do not know if this classifies as prayer, but I do perceive it as such.


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## VictorBravo (Nov 15, 2007)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> satz said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious if anyone would be willing to share how much time (on average) do you spend praying on a daily basis?
> ...



 Aaacck! Touché. (Quickly shutting down. . . . . .)


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## etexas (Nov 15, 2007)

victorbravo said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > satz said:
> ...


Yep! Ouch!


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## Davidius (Nov 15, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> turmeric said:
> 
> 
> > Nicholas, I don't think David is suggesting that our growth comes "solely" from our corporate worship. The New Testament really doesn't seem to emphasize "quiet time" as much as some of us used to think, but it's still helpful to have one.
> ...



I did not read the whole thing because it's very long and I don't have time. However, from what I read it looked like he was 1) making a lot of assertions and 2) developing his argument almost entirely from narrative passages, especially some which derive their importance from their special place in redemptive history. You can say "Private prayer is the test of our sincerity" all day, with whatever font decorations and punctuations you like, but that doesn't prove anything. It just, to borrow your own phrase, "sounds pious." It is neither for us to decide how sanctification takes place, nor to spurn God's ways if they seem too simple. To my knowledge the Reformed confessions have always acknowledged that the bible places the weight of sanctification on the public means of grace. If you don't think that worship for one day per week is enough then you can take that up with the 4th commandment. I work for 6 days a week because God has given me a calling in the world, and I worship on one. This is God's setup, not mine. If I feel like I need to have worship every day then this is a burden I've created for myself in my own mind and it owes to a dissatisfaction with God's prescription.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 15, 2007)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> satz said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious if anyone would be willing to share how much time (on average) do you spend praying on a daily basis?
> ...



But how will we fill our self righteouss and prideful hearts if noone hears our eloquence? We all wear the long robes and love to hear ourselves pontificate as if we were also caught up in the 3rd heaven...

38As he taught, Jesus said, "Watch out for the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and be greeted in the marketplaces, 39and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. 40They devour widows' houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. Such men will be punished most severely."

Now that I think of it Daniel, you like the Law so much, I bet you also have a long robe!!! LOL


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## Larry Hughes (Nov 15, 2007)

Everyone of us would say not enough and if we did “give a number” we’d inherently use it in our conscience to compare ourselves against each other’s standard and make it a new legalism (e.g. the Pharisee’s prayer versus the tax collectors).

Understanding the Psalms, what’s going on there, and really looking at what is going on really help one better understand prayer.

Prayer is very natural to faith, it’s the fruit of faith. There’s formal prayer as in formerly saying or speaking it in a more formal “mode”, and then there’s those cries from the soul that have no words but are moanings and groanings from within. Prayer can be sung (e.g. the Psalms). A prayer can be an un-worded exasperation of the soul as David speaks much of in the Psalms. Some don’t realize that memorizing, meditating or ruminating upon a catechism of the doctrine or Word is too a prayer (e.g. David in the Psalms) because the soul is appealing to God in this. We don’t often recognize this because its so natural to living faith its like recognizing your heart beat, you don’t do it unless you pause for a minute to do so. Meditating and committing to memory for example the Ten Commandments can be prayer, you have to realize just how the soul and mind is doing this. One can meditate on the Lord’s prayer all one’s life and NEVER exhaust it’s import or doctrine, I’m constantly astounded by it everyday. This is a much forgotten thing in American Christianity.

Blessings,

L


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 15, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > satz said:
> ...



No way; I would trip on a long robe walking round Belfast.


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## larryjf (Nov 15, 2007)

Scripture and formal prayer are a pair with me. 
When i am walking closely with God i spend about 3 hours a day in prayer and read about 9 chapters of the Scripture.
When i am not walking that closely, i spend about 30 minutes a day in prayer and read 1 chapter.

This is the type of question that folks tend not to give a straight answer for because on the one hand you don't want to appear prideful, on the other hand you don't want to appear lax in your duty.


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## Amazing Grace (Nov 15, 2007)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Amazing Grace said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Ritchie said:
> ...




 Or would you trip becasue of too much Crested Ten Jameson.

Daniel, I will go on record to say at times you infuriate me, but you can take a joke and dish it out..


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 16, 2007)

Amazing Grace said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > Amazing Grace said:
> ...



That is great ; I would go on record and say that I do not i_ntentionally _ go out to annoy anyone, but when I feel there is Biblical warrant for making a strong statement (which may offend) then I will make one. Taking and dishing out jokes is one of the best things about being an Ulsterman. I sometimes wonder if Ulstermen wrote the Bible, as the humour and sarcasm of Scripture is similar to our culture (I am not being serious when I say that).


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