# A time for choosing.



## TheBruisedReed (Jun 5, 2020)

Ladies and Gentlemen of the PB,

I covet your input regarding a couple of seminaries. In an effort to keep it unbiased, I will only offer that I have been accepted to both for the MDiv. Let's pretend for a moment that financing, relocation, etc., are not an issue. Just a vote based on a bare bones opinion of the seminary, and any comments are most welcome. Thanks!


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## arapahoepark (Jun 5, 2020)

I have been hearing from others more acquainted with the institution that Covenant has turned into a bastion of 'wokism,' especially in its systematics department.

Reactions: Like 2 | Sad 1


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## kodos (Jun 5, 2020)

Just graduated from RPTS. Good things are happening under Dr. York's leadership. Almost makes me wish I could have stayed longer for the taste I have gotten from the new professors (esp. Dr. Whitla, Dr. Stivason, and Prof. Evans). Almost.

Reactions: Like 4 | Rejoicing 2


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## ZackF (Jun 5, 2020)

kodos said:


> Just graduated from RPTS. Good things are happening under Dr. York's leadership. Almost makes me wish I could have stayed longer for the taste I have gotten from the new professors (esp. Dr. Whitla, Dr. Stivason, and Prof. Evans). Almost.


Congratulations!!

Reactions: Like 1


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## bookslover (Jun 5, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> I have been hearing from others more acquainted with the institution that Covenant has turned into a bastion of 'wokism,' especially in its systematics department.



"Woke" systematic theology? How does that work?


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## lynnie (Jun 5, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> I have been hearing from others more acquainted with the institution that Covenant has turned into a bastion of 'wokism,' especially in its systematics department.


That is so depressing. I hope it is exaggerated criticism, or that it is being fought by other faculty and admin. But I have no reason to doubt it. Ugh.


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## Wretched Man (Jun 5, 2020)

I live in St Louis (area) and was considering Covenant Seminary... however I believe it has unfortunately been corrupted almost beyond repair. I’ve visited several PCA churches in the area and was thoroughly disgusted by most of them, which seem heavily influenced by their flagship seminary.



bookslover said:


> "Woke" systematic theology? How does that work?


Just look up Mike Higgins who is their dean of students. And then look up his daughter, Michelle Higgins...

If anyone has attended it recently though, I’d be interested in hearing your thoughts on it. (If this Covid fiasco doesn’t fade soon and I inevitably get laid off, I may reconsider since I have some GI Bill funds to spend on further education.)

Reactions: Informative 1


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## LadyCalvinist (Jun 5, 2020)

I also live in the St. Louis area and have heard some alarming things about Covenant Seminary. While there are good people there there are also problems. Wasn't the Revoice Conference there? When I first moved to St. Louis I heard that, for various reasons, the PCA churches were not sound doctrinally. Someone at an OPC Church told me that he had been at a PCA church in St. Louis and the pastor had talked more about _Seinfeld _in his sermon than the gospel. He did not return to that church.
I am currently a member of an EPC church, which seems decent enough though it is more broadly evangelical than Reformed. There is a good OPC church in the St. Charles area that I have been to several times. The associate pastor is the producer of the White Horse Inn.

Hope this helps.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Andrew35 (Jun 5, 2020)

Wretched Man said:


> Just look up Mike Higgins who is their dean of students. And then look up his daughter, Michelle Higgins...


Ah.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jun 5, 2020)

TheBruisedReed said:


> Ladies and Gentlemen of the PB,
> 
> I covet your input regarding a couple of seminaries. In an effort to keep it unbiased, I will only offer that I have been accepted to both for the MDiv. Let's pretend for a moment that financing, relocation, etc., are not an issue. Just a vote based on a bare bones opinion of the seminary, and any comments are most welcome. Thanks!


I would avoid Covenant for the same reasons mentioned by others. I have no knowledge of RPTS, so I can't say anything one way or the other. What I can say (without the slightest tinge of bias) is Covenant Baptist Theological Seminary (ARTS accredited) is _excellent_ and we'd be very happy to have you study with us. But if that doesn't interest you, I'd definately recommend PRTS and GPTS. I'd say the one thing Greenville has over PRTS is that. . . well. . . it's in the promised land and not in Michigan.


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## Wretched Man (Jun 6, 2020)

LadyCalvinist said:


> There is an good OPC church in the St. Charles area that I have been to several times. The associate pastor is the producer of the White Horse Inn.


Yes, Christ Presbyterian Church in St. Charles is what you’re referring to. Shane Rosenthal (now also the host of WHI) is the associate pastor and they just got a new senior pastor who so far seems very solid. I know many in the congregation are former PCA members who simply couldn’t stomach the PCA churches in this area.


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## Jake (Jun 6, 2020)

Just curious: why these two? I don't know that either are a popular choice for ARP ministers, assuming you want to be ordained in your current denomination. I'd like to think RPTS would become a more popular choice as we form closer bonds with the RPCNA, but it seems RTS and Erskine are the "go to"s.


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## TheBruisedReed (Jun 7, 2020)

Jake said:


> Just curious: why these two?


Good question! Both of these seminaries allow you to begin the MDiv program online (complete it residentially) and both schools meet a lot of the needs of a military/veteran student such as myself. I am banking quite heavily on using my GI Bill as well as some other military benefits in order to pay for a good amount of the program. So, the ability to start online and use my military perks are great options for someone still on active duty.


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## TheBruisedReed (Jun 7, 2020)

Jake said:


> I don't know that either are a popular choice for ARP ministers, assuming you want to be ordained in your current denomination.


Also, my wife and I ended up in the ARP because that was the "closest to home" we could find when we relocated last year, due to military obligations. We were originally in the OPC.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 7, 2020)

kodos said:


> Dr. Whitla



As in David Whitla?


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## Edward (Jun 7, 2020)

TheBruisedReed said:


> Just a vote based on a bare bones opinion of the seminary, and any comments are most welcome.



I you are woke and feel called to social justice minsitry, definitely go with Covenant. And you could attend a PCA in St. Louis with an openly homosexual pastor. You could avoid the old constructs such as seminaries having a Systematic Theology department. 

If that sounds like what you are looking for, you've found the right place.

Reactions: Like 1


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## kodos (Jun 7, 2020)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> As in David Whitla?



Yes, sir!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 7, 2020)

kodos said:


> Yes, sir!



I met David a few times when he was over here.

Reactions: Like 1


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## NaphtaliPress (Jun 7, 2020)

Poll is really neck and neck.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## kodos (Jun 7, 2020)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I met David a few times when he was over here.



His brother in law is joining our congregation. I enjoyed spending time with him in his office discussing preaching. He is a great lecturer. Very thorough. Very pastoral.

He urged me to consider spending time with the works of John Newton (you might appreciate that).

Reactions: Like 1


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 8, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Poll is really neck and neck.



19-0 in favour of RPTS.

Reactions: Like 1


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## wcf_linux (Jun 10, 2020)

As someone who has lived in both places, Pittsburgh > Saint Louis in general. 

There are good PCA churches in Saint Louis, but it can be a hard presbytery to do candidacy especially as someone who's even moderately confessionalist. 

We visit did visit Christ Presbyterian Church a couple times, and it is a great place.

Don't have the same amount of experience in Pittsburgh, but there are several strong PCA, OPC, and RP congregations here.


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## yeutter (Jun 12, 2020)

Wretched Man said:


> Just look up Mike Higgins who is their dean of students. And then look up his daughter, Michelle Higgins...


I think it was four years ago that Michelle Higgins spoke at the Intervarsity Christian Fellowship's Urbana Conference.
That was when I first became aware of how really serious the problems were in both the PCA, and IVCF. I thought the aftermath of Michelle Higgins remarks would lead both the PCA and IVCF to wake up and mend their ways. I was wrong.
As an outsider looking in, I hear good things about Reformed Presbyterian. I hear things that trouble me about Covenant.
In God's providence we have witnessed a spectacular growth of Ratio Christi chapters on University campuses. We have not seen the same kind of growth in IVCF


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## Susan777 (Jun 12, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> I have been hearing from others more acquainted with the institution that Covenant has turned into a bastion of 'wokism,' especially in its systematics department.


I think I read that they renamed their systematics department a year or so ago. Now it’s something “missional” but I can’t remember the exact name they chose.


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## Edward (Jun 12, 2020)

Susan777 said:


> I think I read that they renamed their systematics department a year or so ago. Now it’s something “missional” but I can’t remember the exact name they chose.



I read on their website that they teach some Sytematic Theology classes in their "Missional Theology" Division.


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## TheBruisedReed (Jun 26, 2020)

Another seminary has been added to the poll. I was accepted to RTS Charlotte yesterday!


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## TheBruisedReed (Jun 26, 2020)

And also Erskine!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Edward (Jun 26, 2020)

TheBruisedReed said:


> And also Erskine!



Erskine had some issues a few years ago, but it seemed to this outsider to be more personalities and power struggle rather than theolgically based. My recollectiois that the bloc in control retained their power, with some cosmetic changes and the lid got put back on the pot. (Some of the ARPers will likely show up to take me to task for that summary.)

That being said, it looks like you are in ARP, and it would have a lot to recommend it if you anticipate seeking a call in that denomination. 

That being said, I clicked on RTS Charlotte in the poll and would likely look better for non-ARP opportunities although Erskine should not prove problematical for most conservative to moderate presbyterian bodies.

Reactions: Like 1


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## arapahoepark (Jun 26, 2020)

I know next to nothing of Erskine other than its counseling program is seeking accreditation (I looked for a friend in SC) All I can say is that it depends on your costs, where you want to live/proximity, and the denominations you want to get into. RTS is the reformed 'ecumenical' one. By that I mean its not necessarily specific to a specific NAPARC denomination like the others. So its hard to go wrong there, plus Dr. Kruger is a leading authority on the formation of the Canon.
That said, you couldn't go wrong with RPTS, RTS, or ES, only Covenant.


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## TheBruisedReed (Jun 28, 2020)

I do believe I will be going with RTS Charlotte. Three separate elders, to include my current ARP pastor, have all recommended it. It's also very close to my parents. Being a military guy, I haven't lived near them for about a decade and I'm ready for that to change.


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