# Hearing God's Voice



## Shaffer (Jul 9, 2006)

I just returned from a mission trip to China and one of the things that I heard a lot from our missionary contacts was the importance of hearing God's voice. Every time they talked about this topic I listened closely to try and get an understanding of exactly what they meant by "hearing from God". I don't think that they did mean that they were receiving new revelation from God that is outside of God's written word but I honestly couldn't quite nail down what they meant. 

Does anyone have an idea on what some modern evangelicals mean when they talk about hearing God's voice? I myself have never audibly heard the voice of God. I know Jesus says that "My sheep hear My voice" (John 10:27) and my understanding is that the Lord is speaking of how only His chosen ones will understand what He says and will be guided by His word and by the Holy Spirit given to them. Do you think that this is a right understanding of how we as Christ's sheep hear the voice of our Shepherd?

On the other hand, could it be true that God still speaks to us today, whether in an audible voice or with some other sort of communication? I honestly don't know the answer to this question. Certainly if anyone says they heard God tell them something that runs contrary to holy scripture, than it's safe to say they didn't actually hear from God. But if someone tells you that God told them to be a missionary, how should we understand that, as a direct revelation from God, or the leading of the Holy Spirit?

What is your opinion on this?


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## fivepointcalvinist (Jul 9, 2006)

im more than skeptical from these types. a young girl i work with is attending seminary here in cincinnati in the hopes of being a minister. she mentioned that they dont condone leadership roles in the church for women and how much she disagreed with them concerning this issue. she told me "how can becoming a woman minister be wrong when i feel like God is telling me to do this?". obviously this "voice" needs to be scrutinized via Scripture and the contradiction is apparent, but some refuse to listen. given that, even if someone says something condusive to the Word, thats great, but it doesnt mean God told them in an audible voice. i once heard acclaimed prophetess juanita bynum say "God just told me that 1000 people need to give a $1000 each right now"; this is laughable as most others claiming to hear a "voice". im simply not convinced...

[Edited on 7-9-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 9, 2006)

I have a friend who says this often; when taken to task, he cannot answer the question.


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## Shaffer (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist_
> im more than skeptical from these types. a young girl i work with is attending seminary here in cincinnati in the hopes of being a minister. she mentioned that they dont condone leadership roles in the church for women and how much she disagreed with them concerning this issue. she told me "how can becoming a woman minister be wrong when i feel like God is telling me to do this?". obviously this "voice" needs to be scrutinized via Scripture and the contradiction is apparent, but some refuse to listen. given that, even if someone says something condusive to the Word, thats great, but it doesnt mean God told them in an audible voice. i once heard acclaimed prophetess juanita bynum say "God just told me that 1000 people need to give a $1000 each right now"; this is laughable as most others claiming to hear a "voice". im simply not convinced...
> 
> [Edited on 7-9-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]



I agree with you sir. But on my trip to China there was a girl on my team who praying and she said that the Lord told her that someone she knew was going to get a call that same day about a friend who died. Later that night one of the guys on our team received an emergency call from America that a close friend had died. I believe that the Lord really did tell her this unless convinced that this is somehow contrary to scripture. What do you think about things like this?


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## Arch2k (Jul 9, 2006)

In the context I have heard this phrase used, it usually refers (In my humble opinion) to a feeling. "I feel like God is leading me to do such and such..."

Pietistic irrational mumbo jumbo for the most part.


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## Arch2k (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Shaffer_
> I agree with you sir. But on my trip to China there was a girl on my team who praying and she said that the Lord told her that someone she knew was going to get a call that same day about a friend who died. Later that night one of the guys on our team received an emergency call from America that a close friend had died. I believe that the Lord really did tell her this unless convinced that this is somehow contrary to scripture. What do you think about things like this?



Now I would view a situation like this as "special revelation" which surely has ceased. Sounds almost like fortune telling.


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## Shaffer (Jul 9, 2006)

How do you define "special revelation"? Just a question out of curiosity, could there be such a thing as "person-specific" revelation?


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## Larry Hughes (Jul 9, 2006)

My wife's hometown is plagued by this very thing. It's just more subjective unverifiable rubbish.

Special Revelation: (pretty wide, some examples)

1. There's the rank "fresh revelation" of the likes of Benedictous Hinn.

2. There's the voices literally.

3. There's the "feeling" or "I have peace (subjective) with X.

4. There's the mormoniesque type of "burning in the bossom" or some similar phenomena.

5. There's forms of "fresh data".

6. And then there's the more subtle form like asking God to "give some kind of indication of whether or not I should "take this job or that job".

7. Then there's the "reading of the tea leaves" of life and experiences in this life, what Luther called theologies of glory. E.g. "Hurricane Katrina was judgment on New Orleans as Pat Robertson and Muslems stated.

Basically any time we "ask God" to speak outside of where He has spoken until Christ's return.

L


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## Larry Hughes (Jul 9, 2006)

Congrats Jeff, just saw your picture!!!


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## Arch2k (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Shaffer_
> How do you define "special revelation"? Just a question out of curiosity, could there be such a thing as "person-specific" revelation?



Any revelation beyond that of scripture.

The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter I
Of the Holy Scripture
VI. *The whole  counsel of God concerning all things  necessary for his own glory, man's salvation, faith and life, is either expressly set down in Scripture, or by good and necessary consequence may be deduced from Scripture: unto which nothing  at any time is to be added, whether by new revelations of the Spirit, or traditions of men*.

Technically, if the Lord DID directly talk to this woman, what was said would be as golden as scripture itself. Would anyone be willing to add on this statement of the Lord to our complete Holy Scriptures? I hope not. 

Heb 1:1 God, who at various times and in various ways spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 has in these last days spoken to us by His Son


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## fivepointcalvinist (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Shaffer_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by fivepointcalvinist_
> ...



maybe this will clarify what i think about these types: my mom had a friend growing up with was a "clairvoyant" and foretold many a future events, according to my mom, who being astonished at this womans accuracy became fully convinced in her "powers", as to be expected. she also remarked on several occassions the piety of this same woman. the thing is i dont believe God has a real need for people to know future events and unless this prophesying is to the establishment of Christendom, there is no reason to have it; i dont believe it occurs except maybe from demonic persuasions...

Acts 16:16 Â¶ It happened that as we were going to the place of prayer, a slave-girl having a spirit of divination met us, who was bringing her masters much profit by fortune-telling.
Acts 16:17 Following after Paul and us, she kept crying out, saying, "These men are bond-servants of the Most High God, who are proclaiming to you the way of salvation."
Acts 16:18 She continued doing this for many days. But Paul was greatly annoyed, and turned and said to the spirit, "I command you in the name of Jesus Christ to come out of her!" And it came out at that very moment.


[Edited on 7-9-2006 by fivepointcalvinist]


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## Arch2k (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Larry Hughes_
> Congrats Jeff, just saw your picture!!!



Thanks! See this thread for some pictures from the wedding!

[Edited on 7-9-2006 by Jeff_Bartel]


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## Shaffer (Jul 9, 2006)

Could someone please explain where God's word says that God will not speak to His saints until the second coming of Christ? I know and agree that Jude 3 supports the close of the canon of scripture but I'm not convinced that all direct revelation from God is meant to be included in the canon ("God spoke to me", etc.). Many of you express strong convictions that God does not give special revelation today but none of you have used scripture to support your beliefs. Why should I believe your stance above anyone else's?

Edit: Sorry, I posted this before reading the previous two posts. I guess I am just asking for a more in-depth explanation of why you believe what you believe.

[Edited on 7-9-2006 by Shaffer]


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## Arch2k (Jul 9, 2006)

Brady,

This has been discussed a number of times on the board already. I would recommend reading through a couple of the previous threads on the subject.

Thread #1

Thread #2

Thread #3

Just to name a couple. 

There is a really good resource (can't put my finger on it) that does a detailed exegesis of 1 Corinthians 13 that is very convincing for the cessationist view. I will try to provide the details once I dig them up.


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## Shaffer (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> Brady,
> 
> This has been discussed a number of times on the board already. I would recommend reading through a couple of the previous threads on the subject.
> ...



Thank you very much Jeff! I appreciate the helpful resources. Also, have you read "Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur before? That is the best and only book I've ever read about this topic.

[Edited on 7-9-2006 by Shaffer]


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## jaybird0827 (Jul 9, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Shaffer_
> 
> ... "Charismatic Chaos" by John MacArthur before? That is the best and only book I've ever read about this topic.
> 
> [Edited on 7-9-2006 by Shaffer]



I also strongly suggest Jonathan Edwards' _The Religious Affections_. Edwards' had to deal with similar issues in his time.

_Jay_


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## Scott (Jul 10, 2006)

Brady:

Let me suggest that there are a couple of levels in your questions. As to what you originally described (the Chinese hearing the voice of God) and what is common in American evangelical churches, I would suggest that this describes an evangelical version of mysticism. The idea s that internal feelings are promptings from God about what to do. The Bible does not teach this.

A separate question is whether God can give post-canon person-specific revelation. As with many reformed, I think the answer is yes. For a balanced treatment of this see A Reformation Discussion of Extraordinary Predictive Prophecy Subsequent to the Closing of the Canon of Scripture. Also, if you have Richard Baxter's Christian Directory, it has 3 good sections on the topic. 

Scott


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## Arch2k (Jul 10, 2006)

See also Charismatics and the Word of God: A Biblical and Historical Perspective on the Charismatic Movement by Victor Budgen


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## alwaysreforming (Jul 10, 2006)

As quoted above:

"... on my trip to China there was a girl on my team who praying and she said that the Lord told her that someone she knew was going to get a call that same day about a friend who died. Later that night one of the guys on our team received an emergency call from America that a close friend had died. I believe that the Lord really did tell her this unless convinced that this is somehow contrary to scripture. What do you think about things like this?"


My question would be: what good does knowing information like this do? Why would God wish to provide such a piece of information? Does it help comfort the grieving? Did it prevent the situation from happening? Was there any benefit to it at all?

That's like if God were to tell me, "Someone you know is going to get in a car accident today."

If someone were to get in an accident, what would the big deal be? It didn't help me or them.

The only time I could see this being beneficial (and therefore true), would be if I were overseas and God said, "Get back to America. Your father is going to die within the week."

Then my "getting back to America" allowed me to see my father one last time before he died, and maybe settle any issues if that were the case, like sharing the Good News with him.

But either way, I can't imagine that if any special revelation were extant today, that it wouldn't be centered around the Gospel and/or redemptive history.

Little pieces of trivia here and there seem quite frivolous, and I doubt God is behind any of them.


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## Augusta (Jul 10, 2006)

I grew up in a church where a lot of people did this kind of thing. They did not seem to have any fear of the Lord. If I actually thought God was speaking to me I would fall on my face. 

The flippancy of people who say they sense God telling them something is just staggering to me now. Then it was just what people did. It stems from a total lack of understanding of the holiness of God and a lack of understanding of our standing before a holy God. 

Anyone who says "thus sayeth the Lord" is putting themselves in the role of a prophet. The bible is very harsh on false prophets. The role of prophet was fulfilled by Christ who was the ultimate prophet. 

Ezekiel 13
Woe to Foolish Prophets
1 And the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 
2 "œSon of man, prophesy against the prophets of Israel who prophesy, and say to those who prophesy out of their own heart, "˜Hear the word of the LORD!´"
3 Thus says the Lord GOD: "œWoe to the foolish prophets, who follow their own spirit and have seen nothing! 
4 O Israel, your prophets are like foxes in the deserts. 
5 You have not gone up into the gaps to build a wall for the house of Israel to stand in battle on the day of the LORD. 
6 They have envisioned futility and false divination, saying, "˜Thus says the LORD!´ But the LORD has not sent them; yet they hope that the word may be confirmed. 
7 Have you not seen a futile vision, and have you not spoken false divination? You say, "˜The LORD says,´ but I have not spoken." 
8 Therefore thus says the Lord GOD: "œBecause you have spoken nonsense and envisioned lies, therefore I am indeed against you," says the Lord GOD. 
9 "œMy hand will be against the prophets who envision futility and who divine lies; they shall not be in the assembly of My people, nor be written in the record of the house of Israel, nor shall they enter into the land of Israel. Then you shall know that I am the Lord GOD.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 10, 2006)

Here's another aspect that hasn't been noted yet: We hear so much about "succes stories," right? I mean, if I say "God told me it would rain today," and then it does--well, I guess I "got a revelation, " huh? But what about all the "hunches" or feelings that don't pan-out?

Suppose that same "girl on the team" thought she got another "message from heaven" or a whole series? If she really is getting revelations, she must be batting 1.000, right? Is she? If I never know when my little voice is going to speak clearly and accurately to me... Then, I guess one can always blame error or uncertainty on the messenger, right? "God was as clear as always; the static was all me."

I think its pretty plain that this is a recipie for subjectivism. I have no way of authenticating that "word from God" received by someone else. How different the Bible is. We have an unembarrased "thus saith the Lord." And we all get to read it; the Voice of God says the same thing to each one of us. Misinterpretation is obviously the fault of men, never of the inviolate text. That's not to say that every part of Scripture is "alike plain unto all," or that in every part it is equally clear. But it is objective to everyone.


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## Scott (Jul 10, 2006)

Chistopher: Agabus' prophecy of Paul being bound by the Jews and handed over to the Roman also does not seem to have practical use (it did not change Paul's conduct, for example). So, perhaps some prophecies are given for indiscernable purposes. Or perhaps they helped the recipients in some way that we might not expect.


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## Shaffer (Jul 10, 2006)

WOW! Thanks a lot for your information. I definitely see where you are all coming from and I do agree. I still am not prepared to judge whether the girl did or did not hear from God, because I simply don't have anyway of knowing that. That's where a stand for now, unless convinced otherwise.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jul 10, 2006)

God told me the girl did not hear His voice - it was her imagination.

So, now, disprove that. 

Open revelation = chaos.
Closed canon =


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## srhoades (Jul 10, 2006)

How absurd, people claiming that...wait..hold on...just got an IM from Jesus, brb.


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## MW (Jul 10, 2006)

> _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> God told me the girl did not hear His voice - it was her imagination.
> 
> So, now, disprove that.
> ...



Have you been listening to the radio between stations? That could explain it.

zhzhzhzh zhe zwirl zhzhzh zhizh zhshnoot zhzhzshear zhis zhzhzhoizh


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