# Eating out on Lord's Days, what is the practice in the OPC and ARP?



## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

I don't need to ask this about the PCA; but would like to know, without debating the doctrine of the fourth commandment, what the actual practice is in both the ARP and OPC with regard to folks eating out on the Lord's Day (we could extend to other practices but this is the most visible and cuts across the clear grossest violations of the fouth commandment, labor and commerce). The questions preclude acts of necessity; just talking about routine like in the south it is just the custom, etc.

Do members routinely eat out on the Lord's Day and how likely will they be confronted on this practice?
Do ruling elders eat out on the Lord's day and defend the practice? Or is that a barrier to office holding?
Do Teaching elders eat out on the Lord's day and teach that is okay to do so?
If TEs are teaching soundly on this, are they limited to instruction or is actual discipline possible?


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## OPC'n (Jan 5, 2020)

We don't believe in eating out on the Sabbath. I'm sure there are those in the OPC who don't hold to this conviction. I would like to see pastors teach on the subject of the Sabbath more often.

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## Jake (Jan 5, 2020)

I've been a member of one congregation of each denomination. I think it varies from congregation to congregation. The OPC I was a part of was stricter on the whole in this regard, though I know at least some members would eat out on the Lord's Day without being addressed. In the ARP Church I would say many ministers and ruling elders eat out on the Lord's Day, at the very least when travelling away from home.

The ARP Church's Sabbath practices waned in strictness through the twentieth century to the point of what I would consider practical antinomianism on the issue now (I mean by this: not necessarily challenging the doctrine, but not following it). There are still some committed Sabbatarians in the denomination, but they are few in number.

Here's an interesting quote, from a book published in 1982 (The Second Century: A History of the Associate Reformed Presbyterians 1882-1982 by Ware And Gettys, p. 348).



> C.B. Williams recognized a major change in the attitude of ARP church members from the last generation on the observance of the Sabbath. He felt that the denomination's reputation as strict observers of the Sabbath rested on past practices. "The disillusioning truth is that there is at present little if any difference between us and the general run of church people in this regard. The truth is that we never had a monopoly on Sabbath observance; others were struct as well as our own church fathers." Williams noted that ARP Church members took weekend trips, made purchases of non-essential items, and even did household chores on the Sabbath. he knew of no one who refrained from meal preparation on the Sabbath by 1949. Public amusements were regularly available during the hour of evening worship and "no longer seriously frowned upon." The average churchman followed the practice of the Roman Catholic Church in that he considered morning worship as sufficient and treated the remainder of the day as a holiday."



Compare this to early practice, quote from “The Heritage Our Fathers Left Us”, address by Rev. D.G. Phillips at the Centennial Address of the Associate Reformed Synod of the South (now ARP Church) in 1903



> "But our fathers were nearer right than wrong. You can’t well be too strict in Sabbath keeping. When one is hurt by too rigid a Sabbath, a thousand are ruined by a loose one. A man’s attitude toward the Sabbath is a fair test of his spiritual character. If he is loose on the Sabbath, he is lacking in vital godliness, his convictions are shallow, he is not rooted and grounded in love. If he honors the Sabbath he is still anchored to God. Letting down on the sabbath is like the letting out of water. Once you begin there is no stopping place till the sacredness of the day is utterly gone. You hallow it in your heart as God’s own holiday, on which we are not to do our own work nor find our own pleasures nor speak our own words nor think our own thoughts, or you lose reverence for it altogether."

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## jwithnell (Jan 5, 2020)

As a general practice I'd say going to businesses on the Lord's Day is discouraged in the OPC. When folks are self-consciously reformed it is rare to break the sabbath. 

Sadly we have folks who generally support the WCF that are not as conscientious. To me a measure may be made in what people post on social media. It amazes me to see what people will post without even a flicker of recognition that they are not make the best use of the Lord's day and are pressing "the stranger within their gate" into labor.

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

jwithnell said:


> As a general practice I'd say going to businesses on the Lord's Day is discouraged in the OPC. When folks are self-consciously reformed it is rare to break the sabbath.
> 
> Sadly we have folks who generally support the WCF that are not as conscientious. To me a measure may be made in what people post on social media. It amazes me to see what people will post without even a flicker of recognition that they are not make the best use of the Lord's day and are pressing "the stranger within their gate" into labor.


I guess it depends who is defining 'reformed' and how self conscience they are. I know folks tire of me saying it but when I asked specifically about the issue of the Lord's Day in the OPC, and the TE answering knowing my background on the issue, said if the Sabbath is an important issue to me I would find the OPC disappointing.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 5, 2020)

One prominent minister in the OPC, whom I know personally, told me that his Presbytery had basically taken what they saw as the approach of the Heidelberg Catechism rather than that of the Westminster Larger Catechism to the subject of the Sabbath. Hence, such practices were not discouraged. Obviously, there are good grounds for questioning the dichotomy they have set up between the Westminster Standards and the Three Forms of Unity on the issue, but that is what I was told.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> One prominent minister in the OPC, whom I know personally, told me that his Presbytery had basically taken what they saw as the approach of the Heidelberg Catechism rather than that of the Westminster Larger Catechism to the subject of the Sabbath. Hence, such practices were not discouraged. Obviously, there are good grounds for questioning the dichotomy they have set up between the Westminster Standards and the Three Forms of Unity on the issue, but that is what I was told.


Dr. Old is not some strict confessionalist puritan and he observed per Terry Johnson: "Years ago Hughes Old said of those who were claiming the ‘continental’ view of the Sabbath over against that of the [Westminster] Confession, that they must mean the ‘continental Catholic’ view, allowing no disjunction between the Reformed in Britain and those in Europe proper."

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## jwithnell (Jan 5, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I guess it depends who is defining 'reformed' and how self conscience they are. I know folks tire of me saying it but when I asked specifically about the issue of the Lord's Day in the OPC, and the TE answering knowing my background on the issue, said if the Sabbath is an important issue to me I would find the OPC disappointing.


I can only speak from my own experience and acknowledge that I am likely more of a centrist on this board. My involvement with my presbytery's camp over the years has introduced me to rock-solid people from all levels of the denomination who are robust in their observation of the Lord's day.


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## Susan777 (Jan 5, 2020)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> One prominent minister in the OPC, whom I know personally, told me that his Presbytery had basically taken what they saw as the approach of the Heidelberg Catechism rather than that of the Westminster Larger Catechism to the subject of the Sabbath. Hence, such practices were not discouraged. Obviously, there are good grounds for questioning the dichotomy they have set up between the Westminster Standards and the Three Forms of Unity on the issue, but that is what I was told.


It kind of sounds like an approach of convenience.

Glad to say my pastor observes the Sabbath and preaches it.


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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 5, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Dr. Old is not some strict confessionalist puritan and he observed per Terry Johnson: "Years ago Hughes Old said of those who were claiming the ‘continental’ view of the Sabbath over against that of the [Westminster] Confession, that they must mean the ‘continental Catholic’ view, allowing no disjunction between the Reformed in Britain and those in Europe proper."


I saw this post on Facebook and wanted to ask there but got distracted so will ask here, could you provide the source of the Terry Johnson quote? Is it from a book or article on keeping the Sabbath?


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

Jeri Tanner said:


> I saw this post on Facebook and wanted to ask there but got distracted so will ask here, could you provide the source of the Terry Johnson quote? Is it from a book or article on keeping the Sabbath?


I asked Dr. Johnson that about a year ago and he said, "It was verbal. He said it in the course of one of his classes." I know he took a course of study under Dr. Old.


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## Taylor (Jan 5, 2020)

As far as I know, the Presbytery of the Southeast in the OPC (my presbytery), being under the general influence of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, tends to be sabbatarian. Our congregation certainly is for the most part. Our pastor is a graduate of GPTS and is strongly sabbatarian.

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

So an OPC presbytery can at will replace part of their doctrinal statements with another which is not theirs? PCA folks looking for greener grass better look elsewhere then. 


Reformed Covenanter said:


> One prominent minister in the OPC, whom I know personally, told me that his Presbytery had basically taken what they saw as the approach of the Heidelberg Catechism rather than that of the Westminster Larger Catechism to the subject of the Sabbath. Hence, such practices were not discouraged. Obviously, there are good grounds for questioning the dichotomy they have set up between the Westminster Standards and the Three Forms of Unity on the issue, but that is what I was told.


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## OPC'n (Jan 5, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> So an OPC presbytery can at will replace part of their doctrinal statements with another which is not theirs? PCA folks looking for greener grass better look elsewhere then.



3. The Confession of Faith and Catechisms and the forms of subscription required of ministers, licentiates, ruling elders, and deacons, as these forms are found in the Form of Government, may be amended only in the following manner: The general assembly shall determine whether a suggested change is worthy of consideration. If so determined, it shall appoint a committee to consider any suggested change and to report to the next regular assembly with recommendations; that assembly may then propose the amendment to the presbyteries by a two-thirds majority of the members voting; approval by a presbytery shall be by a majority of the members voting, and following the decision the clerk of presbytery shall notify the clerk of the assembly, in writing, of the decision of the presbytery; if two-thirds of the presbyteries approve the amendment it shall be adopted finally only after approval of the next ensuing assembly by a two-thirds vote of the members voting.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

I know; I couldn't find an incredulous smilie.


OPC'n said:


> 3. The Confession of Faith and Catechisms and the forms of subscription required of ministers, licentiates, ruling elders, and deacons, as these forms are found in the Form of Government, may be amended only in the following manner: The general assembly shall determine whether a suggested change is worthy of consideration. If so determined, it shall appoint a committee to consider any suggested change and to report to the next regular assembly with recommendations; that assembly may then propose the amendment to the presbyteries by a two-thirds majority of the members voting; approval by a presbytery shall be by a majority of the members voting, and following the decision the clerk of presbytery shall notify the clerk of the assembly, in writing, of the decision of the presbytery; if two-thirds of the presbyteries approve the amendment it shall be adopted finally only after approval of the next ensuing assembly by a two-thirds vote of the members voting.


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## OPC'n (Jan 5, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I know; I couldn't find an incredulous smilie.



Oh. Well, we need one of those for people like me.


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## MChase (Jan 5, 2020)

The OPC I was preciously a member at catered food on the Lord’s day for a fellowship meal, ruling elders would fly on the Lords day, and any sort of strict sabbatarianism was looked down upon. John Murray was praised in many ways but his views on psalmody and the sabbath were ridiculed pretty heavily.

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

MChase said:


> The OPC I was preciously a member at catered food on the Lord’s day for a fellowship meal, ruling elders would fly on the Lords day, and any sort of strict sabbatarianism was looked down upon. John Murray was praised in many ways but his views on psalmody and the sabbath were ridiculed pretty heavily.


What state? No need to be more specific than that.


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## MChase (Jan 5, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> What state? No need to be more specific than that.



Texas


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

MChase said:


> Texas


Okay; Texas seems to be a common denominator.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 5, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> So an OPC presbytery can at will replace part of their doctrinal statements with another which is not theirs? PCA folks looking for greener grass better look elsewhere then.



In all seriousness, while I won't comment on individual situations, my advice to conservative people in the PCA is to stay where they are unless they are driven out of the denomination. The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there. Other denominations that may appear more conservative on paper are often not so in reality. In fact, in some cases, the problems are actually far worse.

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 5, 2020)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> In all seriousness, while I won't comment on individual situations, my advice to conservative people in the PCA is to stay where they are unless they are driven out of the denomination. The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there. Other denominations that may appear more conservative on paper are often not so in reality. In fact, in some cases, the problems are actually far worse.


Generally that is good advice, but things are changing rapidly. We'll see what this coming GA brings w.r.t. Revoice, side a, side b, etc.


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## OPC'n (Jan 5, 2020)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> In all seriousness, while I won't comment on individual situations, my advice to conservative people in the PCA is to stay where they are unless they are driven out of the denomination. The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there. Other denominations that may appear more conservative on paper are often not so in reality. In fact, in some cases, the problems are actually far worse.



This wasn't the case for me. The PCA church I started out in was no bueno. I'm very glad I made the change.


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## Jake (Jan 6, 2020)

I will say to the ARP Church case that I think the denomination is moving towards confessionalism rather than away from it, which it certainly was a few decades ago. You can find worse stuff than I know of in PCA history in ARP history with regard to liberalism (including stuff that would make Peter Enns circa the end of his Westminster days blush on inerrancy and the advocacy of women to all offices in the church), but the denomination is returning to its roots and you would be hard pressed to find liberalism countenanced now.


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## JimmyH (Jan 6, 2020)

As far as I know my OPC congregation honors the Lord's Day. I cannot speak for every individual ... but as far as I know.


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## Miller (Jan 6, 2020)

In the OPC the Presbytery of Philadelphia seemed much more sabbatarian than the Presbytery of the Southwest. Ministers here will eat out, shop, watch Sportscenter (while calling it a work of mercy & necessity!), and go to the movies. The ruling elders aren't any different. I've filled a few pulpits where the ruling elder invited me out to eat with him. The people routinely miss worship for work (not of mercy or necessity), plays, concerts, etc... and no one says anything as far as discipline and I've asked about it. This has been my experience here in Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. We need reformation.

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 6, 2020)

Miller said:


> In the OPC the Presbytery of Philadelphia seemed much more sabbatarian than the Presbytery of the Southwest. Ministers here will eat out, shop, watch Sportscenter (while calling it a work of mercy & necessity!), and go to the movies. The ruling elders aren't any different. I've filled a few pulpits where the ruling elder invited me out to eat with him. The people routinely miss worship for work (not of mercy or necessity), plays, concerts, etc... and no one says anything as far as discipline and I've asked about it. This has been my experience here in Texas, Oklahoma, and New Mexico. We need reformation.


The evidence seems to be that OPC PotSW is antisabbatarian, as bad as any PCA situation. So it explains the TE's comment to me that I'd find it disappointing. Actually, this tells me that was an understatement. Our church is struggling with this issue (never stressed in the teaching till recent years) and if we were to find it time to leave the PCA going from an antisabbatarian presbytery to one just as bad would be not particularly helpful.


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## alexandermsmith (Jan 6, 2020)

There's a Sabbatarian church in Santa Fe, Texas.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 6, 2020)

alexandermsmith said:


> There's a Sabbatarian church in Santa Fe, Texas.


OPC?


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## alexandermsmith (Jan 6, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> OPC?



FPCofS


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 6, 2020)

There's a couple in the Dallas area too that are not OPC or ARP, but the question is about OPC and ARP denominations.


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## MChase (Jan 6, 2020)

I don’t think Texas is some kind of anomaly in the OPC either. Same sort of things happen in the OPC in Missouri that my wife used to be a member at. At the same time though, when I visited the OPC which Rev Buchanan pastors in northern Michigan, felt very at home and that the sabbath had a proper place in the people’s hearts.


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## SeanPatrickCornell (Jan 6, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Generally that is good advice, but things are changing rapidly. We'll see what this coming GA brings w.r.t. Revoice, side a, side b, etc.



I know this is off topic, so if you'd like to PM me the answer that would be great, but what is "Side A, Side B"?


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 6, 2020)

SeanPatrickCornell said:


> I know this is off topic, so if you'd like to PM me the answer that would be great, but what is "Side A, Side B"?


Search here or google PCA, Revoice, and gay christian.

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## Pilgrim (Jan 6, 2020)

About 15 years ago, I came across the website of an anti-sabbatarian OPC church in the DFW area. It was TX for sure. I'm pretty sure it was in the Metroplex, or not far from it. The TE was a Klinean and the site had an anti-sabbatarian article posted on it. (I'm not saying that all Klineans are anti-sabbatarian.) It is one thing to be anti-sabbatarian in practice. It is another to broadcast it to the world in that way, apparently without concern for any consequences. 

In my old OPC in the Presbytery of the South, I heard that the TE rebuked a prominent couple for eating out after church. This was before I got there. But he had a strong emphasis on the Sabbath. He also practiced hospitality, with them preparing meals at times. Without them doing this, I don't know if I would have actually joined the church! Not only did it help with sanctifying the Lord's Day, but it provided an opportunity to get to know them.

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## jwright82 (Jan 7, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Okay; Texas seems to be a common denominator.


I was member of an OPC church in Texas and I never heard anything. The older people probably didn't do it but if they had a problem with it you'd never hear about it. Never heard it from the pulpit and it is a good church. They practiced inviting people over to their house a lot. Having a toddler in an elderly persons home could be stressful to my ex and I but it never bothered anybody.


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## Edward (Jan 7, 2020)

alexandermsmith said:


> There's a Sabbatarian church in Santa Fe, Texas.



For Chris, that's roughly the same as Newcastle to London.

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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 8, 2020)

My experience in the ARP is that the only "sabbatarian" presbytery is the Canadian Presbytery. 

To my personal dismay the Sabbath is not widely observed by ministers, elders, or church members in the ARP. 

Part of that is lack of teaching for several generations, though as has been noted there has been slow and steady movement to a confessional point-of-view in small steps, including a recent motion which passed at Synod three years ago to have Erskine College athletics stop scheduling practice/games on the Lord's Day. 

I personally think that as we add more and more confessionally-sound ministers, as with other confessional questions that have been improved upon (Six-Day Creationism, 2nd Commandment issues, etc...) that observance of the 4th Commandment will come along with it. It may take a generation or two to get there, but at least we are moving, snail-like to be sure, in a hopeful direction, by God's grace.

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## Susan777 (Jan 8, 2020)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> My experience in the ARP is that the only "sabbatarian" presbytery is the Canadian Presbytery.
> 
> To my personal dismay the Sabbath is not widely observed by ministers, elders, or church members in the ARP.
> 
> ...


Very few in my church keep the Sabbath. Nor do they understand the Second Commandment. I think it’s because the congregation is almost entirely baptistic. Despite this our pastor doesn’t give up preaching and teaching it.

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## A.Joseph (Jan 8, 2020)

I would say definitely not encouraged, but probably not policed.


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## A.Joseph (Jan 8, 2020)

We recently discussed this book and if I recall correctly the proper view is espoused. https://www.challies.com/book-reviews/with-reverence-and-awe/


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## VictorBravo (Jan 8, 2020)

Susan777 said:


> I think it’s because the congregation is almost entirely baptistic.



I really don't see the connection. I've known some fundamentalist Baptists who are quite Sabbatarian while we all know of plenty of Presbyterians who are not. 

For what it's worth, our small flock seems to be very much in line with the LBCF on the subject.

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## Susan777 (Jan 8, 2020)

VictorBravo said:


> I really don't see the connection. I've known some fundamentalist Baptists who are quite Sabbatarian while we all know of plenty of Presbyterians who are not.
> 
> For what it's worth, our small flock seems to be very much in line with the LBCF on the subject.


Victor, I was trying to figure out a way to phrase it without seeming to criticize my baptist brethren. There are no LBC folks in my church. There are a few who believe New Cov Theo, but most are baptist in the sense of having gone to SBC churches, or nondenoms or Arminian churches where dunking is the norm. They are slowly being brought around to the Doctrines of Grace but the restaurant after church visit is a cultural habit that is hard to overcome I guess. And you are so right about most Presbyterians.

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## W.C. Dean (Jan 9, 2020)

In my OPC mission work, which is overseen by another nearby OPC church (their pastor is our pastor as of right now), everyone is strictly against eating out on the Sabbath as far as I know. Our pastor told me he makes sure the church's view on the Sabbath is clear to members because he will talk to people (and I suppose potentially discipline) who break the Fourth Commandment in that way. I believe all our members take it very seriously. Our church is also very, very Southern. I can't really stress that enough. So we certainly break the mold of Southern church members and their eating habits. Our church is as about as Southern Presbyterian as they come. Which is a good thing, I think.

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## W.C. Dean (Jan 9, 2020)

I'm writing again because I've read through some more comments on this thread. I had no idea the Presbytery of the Southwest of the OPC seems to generally disavow Sabbatarianism, I'd like to point out that the Presbytery of the Southeast (observed through personal experience and from what I've been told and what I've read) is noticeably Sabbatarian. Every minister I've met from the Southeast (and the Mid-Atlantic Presbytery) has not only observed the Sabbath personally but talks about it with joy. In the past two months I believe the Sabbath has probably been mentioned more than once in a sermon and we already had a full sermon on it (from a minister whose church just left the PCA for the OPC). So it seems to hotbed of Sabbatarians in the OPC are situated in Virginia to Georgia. I think Sabbatarian Orthodox Presbyterians are found further North as well though.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 9, 2020)

Reading this thread is bittersweet for me because, on the one hand, it is sad to see how poorly the Sabbath is observed in various branches of the conservative Reformed world. On the other hand, it is encouraging to know that I am not the only person who has to regularly deal with these issues among his fellow congregants.

What is really sad is that when I was a kid growing up (I am talking roughly 30 years ago) in broadly evangelical Methodist and PCI congregations (even in circles that would have allowed women ministers to preach), the Sabbath was much better respected than it is in many more overtly Reformed circles nowadays.

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## jwright82 (Jan 9, 2020)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I don't need to ask this about the PCA; but would like to know, without debating the doctrine of the fourth commandment, what the actual practice is in both the ARP and OPC with regard to folks eating out on the Lord's Day (we could extend to other practices but this is the most visible and cuts across the clear grossest violations of the fouth commandment, labor and commerce). The questions preclude acts of necessity; just talking about routine like in the south it is just the custom, etc.
> 
> Do members routinely eat out on the Lord's Day and how likely will they be confronted on this practice?
> Do ruling elders eat out on the Lord's day and defend the practice? Or is that a barrier to office holding?
> ...


It's funny you mentioned the south being from the south I never thought twice about my big family always went out to eat after church, I never thought about it. My poor dad, 5 boys and himself and my mom (plus sometimes other, exspensive). But when I was in that OPC church I think my ex-wife and I ate out maybe enough times to count on one hand, we were always invited over to someone's house that may have been their way of keeping others from doing it but it felt more like a cultural thing, like they never talked about it it was just something they just didn't do. Like from my cultural background it was just something you did on Sunday.


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## hammondjones (Jan 10, 2020)

W.C. Dean said:


> the Presbytery of the Southeast (observed through personal experience and from what I've been told and what I've read) is noticeably Sabbatarian



That aligns well with my (admittedly) limited experience.

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## SRoper (Jan 10, 2020)

This was before our family arrived, but our current pastor preached on the sabbath soon after he arrived and was surprised that he upset some of the congregation! It is his first call, and he naively thought this is a reformed church, and we at least have exposure to reformed teaching. I don't know if eating out on the Lord's Day has come up specifically, but I don't hear anyone talking about lunch plans after church like I did in the PCA.

Another anecdote which is slightly related: I once heard another long-time ARP pastor say that the biggest change he has seen in his time in the ARP is that we have become more loving. When I asked what he meant he said that we used to have a sign at Bonclarken, our denomination's church camp, that said "no swimming on Sunday," and we don't have that anymore.

Back to the PCA, maybe this is unjustified optimism on my part, but I find it is actually the older generation that is more hostile to the Lord's Day. The younger generations might be more progressive in some areas, but I find they are more receptive to the need for rest and can see sabbath as a justice issue.

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 10, 2020)

It needs to be a doctrinally sound position on the fourth commandment. Part of the boost to the international Sabbath movement in the mid 19teens was just this kind of interest from the progressives. It soon vanished. Progressive interest kept the issue alive in the PCUS for a few decades going along with the conservatives' interest to try to retain/recover keeping the Lord's Day. But when the PCUS conservatives lost any control and input at GA and the denomination the Sabbath issue died a sudden death with interest practically vanishing over the course of just a few years.


SRoper said:


> The younger generations might be more progressive in some areas, but I find they are more receptive to the need for rest and can see sabbath as a justice issue.

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## JollyGreenGavin (Jan 10, 2020)

I grew up in the rural south and was a member of a PCA church. I remember that we didn’t hunt or fish on the Lord’s day, but that was the extent of our restrictions. It was common to eat at local restaurants after the morning service. And our afternoons were filled with other types of recreation.


I am now a ruling elder in an ARP church. It is in a less rural area than where I grew up, but I would still consider it rural. We are working to reclaim a higher view of the Lord’s day. We have implemented and evening service and begun having people over to our home between services. This has been incredibly beneficial.


For those of you that have been doing this for awhile, (and maybe this deserves its own thread), what do you do with 8-15 children when you gather in someone’s home on a Lord’s day afternoon? I know we need to be more intentional with the time we have them together, but right now it is a bit chaotic. Your suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 10, 2020)

SRoper said:


> The younger generations might be more progressive in some areas, but I find they are more receptive to the need for rest and can see sabbath as a justice issue.



I think this observation is a very good one. Whenever people invite me out for lunch on the Sabbath, which rarely happens now, I reply with, "I will leave you to oppress the proletariat."

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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 10, 2020)

The ARP ministers in Winston-Salem and Lugoff are two of the ones I had in my mind when I mentioned the positive changes, as noted slow, going on in the ARP.

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## JollyGreenGavin (Jan 11, 2020)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> The ARP ministers in Winston-Salem and Lugoff are two of the ones I had in my mind when I mentioned the positive changes, as noted slow, going on in the ARP.



I hear good things from Clover as well. I’ve wanted to come to your 5th Sunday Psalm Sing, but it is a bit of a drive from Lugoff especially with school the next day for the kids.

Found a great post that contained some practical resources. Title: 
*Resources Available - Keeping the Lord's Day*


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