# God's Righteous Judgment



## Coram_Deo (Apr 22, 2004)

I was talking to one of my profs today about God's righteous judgment and want to see if my thoughts on it are first Biblical and maintained by people here. We were talking about the problem texts were God says that He wants the Israelites to destroy the foreign nations and kill even the children. He took these as God's judgment upon the horrible nations. I asked if this applied to the holocaust; if we could view it as an act of God's judgment upon the unfaithful Jews. He didn't think so, and said that he didn't think all death needed to be viewed as as an act of judgment. But he couldn't tell me why, and vice versa I couldn't tell him why i thought it should have been; other than the fact that they had dethroned God from His throne, and we all, deserve this death. He didn't find that a viable option as he doesn't think a little four year old girl who gets raped by her uncle 'has that coming to her'. I said we should expect bad things to happen to us, as we don't deserve to have anything good to happen, and he wasn't too set on this idea.
But my main question is, does physical death= God's just judgment on mankind, if so, does it always? If not, why not? Why is it unfair of us to say God could ordain something like the holocaust and still be a good God? Isn't it all about His glory, not us? Is it wrong to say that the Jews like the Canaanites were coming under God's righteous judgment for surpressing the truth?
&quot;This is a plain indication of God's righteous judgment so that you will be considered worthy of the kingdom of God, for which indeed you are suffering. For after all it is only just for God to repay with affliction those who are afflict you, and to give relief to you who are afflicted and to us as well when the Lord Jesus will be revealed from Heaven with His mighty angels in flamming fire, dealing out retribution to those who do not know God and to those who do not obey the Gospel of our Lord Jesus. Theses will pay the penatly of eternal destruction, away from the presence of the Lord and from the glory of His power, when He comes to be glorified in His saints on that day, and to be marveled at among all who believe- for out testimony to you was believed.&quot; 2 Thess 1:5-10


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Apr 22, 2004)

[quote:424a867141]But my main question is, does physical death= God's just judgment on mankind, if so, does it always?[/quote:424a867141]

CD - you are not being precise neough with your question. For exmaple, according to Genesis 3, all death is a result of the fall, and the result of judgment. But that may be too broad in relation to your question. If I die today, it will be a result of the fall. But it may simply be the &quot;death of His saint&quot; that pleases Him. That may not be a &quot;punitive&quot; judgment at all. (I would love it!!) So in that case, no, death is not a judgment.

What about, then, the earthquake in India that claims the lives of 100,000 people? Well, they are a pagan nation. God does enact judgments. I would not feel terribly uneasy saying &quot;yes&quot; that is a judgment of God. There are theological and religious reasons that play into why that is in that situation - they are a pagan nation, they worship others gods, etc.

What if, though, a Christian missionary dies in that earthquake as well? Is that a judgment on him? I would not think so. he was simply part of the overall catastrophe, as in OT times when Nebuchadnezzar destroyed and burned jerusalem under Jeremiah's prophecies. Jeremiah was partaking, providentially, in all that mess. But that did not mean God was judging him in particular.

[quote:424a867141]Why is it unfair of us to say God could ordain something like the holocaust and still be a good God?[/quote:424a867141]

God did ordain the holocaust, and He is a good God. God does ordain my trials, I hate them, they disturb me, and often I do not get what I need to get out of them for them to be helpful to me. Is that &quot;judgmnet?&quot; No. God still ordains and uses evil things to conform us to His image.

[quote:424a867141] Isn't it all about His glory, not us?[/quote:424a867141]


Yes, it is all about His glory - tis the chief reason He created the world.

[quote:424a867141] Is it wrong to say that the Jews like the Canaanites were coming under God's righteous judgment for surpressing the truth?[/quote:424a867141]

No, I do not think so.


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## Coram_Deo (Apr 23, 2004)

thanks for your reply. I guess i was more directing my question towards the ungodly that die. I think I'm fine saying that the saint who dies is not coming under judgment, but merely being called home, or something to that extent. But I appreciate your response. I was told by my arminian prof that most calvinists wouldn't even dare to say that. 
Would you tend to hold to the idea that we deserve the bad things in life? I remember a Piper sermon where he stated that from the minute we're born, the rest is purely grace. He was encouraging us not to get mad about the &quot;bad&quot; things that happen to us, but to merely expect it; and vice, when the good things happen to praise God all the more for His grace. Is this a proper way to go about looking at life? That if I get an F on a test, or my car breaks down, or anything in the like; that I can just assume this is what I deserve? Does that make any sense?
By Grace Alone,
CD


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