# Steele & Thomas chart on Arminianism vs Calvinism



## Moonnerd (Jan 31, 2022)

I used the Steele and Thomas chart comparing the 5 points of Arminianism with the 5 points of Calvinism in Sunday school. Someone in the class asked where the words used for the Arminian position came from. I said it was their own words... then today I looked into it further and realized the chart is very different from the 5 articles of the remonstrance. Does anyone know the source of what Steele and Thomas use for the 5 points of Arminius? I am hoping that there is a very similar statement from an Arminian somewhere in history that I am not seeing. If not, how would you answer the charge (that I will get) that the Arminiam position was written by Calvinists as a straw man?

Thank you for any help. 
Rob


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## Eyedoc84 (Jan 31, 2022)

Can you post a link or attach the chart?


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## Moonnerd (Jan 31, 2022)

Thanks - I attached the chart, and here is a link to the 5 points of remonstrance.

https://www.theopedia.com/five-articles-of-remonstrance

Rob


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## Eyedoc84 (Jan 31, 2022)

Point 1 is at odds with what Arminius and the Remonstrants said. They explicitly affirmed the need for the Spirit to work in a regenerative way prior to faith. Whether they could consistently hold that is another issue, but it definitely seems the chart is not letting Arminians speak on their own terms. It would be better to let them do so, and then show the inconsistencies.

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## Moonnerd (Feb 1, 2022)

Well said. That expresses my thoughts as well.


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## Taylor (Feb 1, 2022)

I haven’t looked at the chart, but one thing that complicates the issue is that there are, historically speaking, several different Arminianisms. We should always seek to find which one we’re talking about in any given conversation. Are we talking about the Arminianism of Arminius himself? The second generation Remonstrants (Limborch, et al)? The later Arminians who went wholesale Socinian? Weslyan Arminianism? Typical American Arminianism? These are all different, sometimes drastically. Many Arminians today would be castigated by Jacob Arminius and John Wesley. Many don’t realize that Arminius was a minister in good standing of the _Reformed_ church in the Netherlands until his death, and that Wesley had a view of human nature that would make most Arminians today (not to mention many Reformed folk) look like Joel Osteen. Unlike many Arminians—even of his time, and especially today—Wesley believed original sin consisted in pollution, corruption, _and_ guilt!

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## Eyedoc84 (Feb 1, 2022)

Taylor said:


> I haven’t looked at the chart, but one thing that complicates the issue is that there are, historically speaking, several different Arminianisms. We should always seek to find which one we’re talking about in any given conversation. Are we talking about the Arminianism of Arminius himself? The second generation Remonstrants (Limborch, et al)? The later Arminians who went wholesale Socinian? Weslyan Arminianism? Typical American Arminianism? These are all different, sometimes drastically. Many Arminians today would be castigated by Jacob Arminius and John Wesley. Many don’t realize that Arminius was a minister in good standing of the _Reformed_ church in the Netherlands until his death, and that Wesley had a view of human nature that would make most Arminians today (not to mention many Reformed folk) look like Joel Osteen. Unlike many Arminians even if his time, and especially today, Wesley believed original sin consisted in pollution, corruption, _and_ guilt!


Although Arminius’ good standing was in ever-growing doubt by the time of his death.

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## Taylor (Feb 1, 2022)

Eyedoc84 said:


> Although Arminius’ good standing was in ever-growing doubt by the time of his death.


No doubt. His controversies with Gomarus was eroding his standing. Even so, it’s important to paint Arminius accurately, since many Arminians seem to believe he was some kind of revolutionary prophet determined to overthrow that wicked set of doctrines we call Reformed theology, when he was nothing of the sort. He was a Reformed minister who loved the Reformed church (and had great affection for Calvin, incidentally). He was wrong theologically, of course, but my point is twofold: 1) Arminianism is a multi-faceted and historically complicated theological development; 2) Arminius would be horrified at most of today’s Arminianism, which is really just resurrected Pelagianism.

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## Moonnerd (Feb 1, 2022)

This is very very helpful. Thank you for these comments. I have heard (but will get the book to confirm) that the chart was included in Wayne House's _Charts of Christian Theology and Doctrine_. House used to teach systematic theology at Dallas Theological Seminary.


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