# Cyril of Alexandria and 1 John 5:5-10



## Reformed Covenanter (Aug 1, 2021)

I have posted extracts defending the originality of the Johannine Comma in the past, so do not complain that I am being unfair in posting a quotation from the other side of the argument. Living in echo chambers is tempting, but it is unhealthy. I believe it is necessary to listen to both sides of the discussion in order to have an informed opinion one way or the other (Proverbs 18:13). Anyway, Cyril quotes this passage near the end of his _Five Tomes against Nestorius_. You will observe that the Comma is missing from his quotation:

Therefore the faith profits them who will hold it unshaken; how it profits, the all-wise John will assure us saying, _Who is he that overcometh the world but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God? This is He that came through water and blood, Jesus Christ, not in water only, but in water and blood, and the Spirit_ _is Truth_; _for three testify, the Spirit, the water and the Blood, and the_ _Three are One. If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater, for this is the witness of God, because He hath witnessed concerning His Son: he that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself, he that believeth not God hath made him a liar, because he believed not the testimony which He hath testified regarding His Son. _And how God the Father hath testified to His Son, the Divine-uttering John the Baptist will declare saying. _And _I _knew Him not, but He That sent me to baptize with water, He said to me, Upon Whom thou shalt see the Spirit descending and remaining upon Him, This is He Which baptizeth with the Holy Ghost. And _I _saw and have testified that This is the Son of God. _

Our Lord Jesus Christ therefore is witnessed to through the Father's Voice, that He is by Nature and in truth His Son, He is witnessed to no less through the water and the Blood and the Spirit. For by the holy water He purgeth away the sins of them that believe, He quickeneth through His own Blood and connecteth to God them on the earth: and since He is God by Nature He maketh also richly the grant of the Holy Ghost, pouring It forth as His own into the hearts of them who believe, and making them _partakers of the Divine Nature, _and crowning them with the hope of the good things to come.

Cyril of Alexandria, _Five-Book Contradiction of the Blasphemies of Nestorius or The Five Tomes of S. Cyril_ (430), Book 5.7, trans. P. E. Pusey in _A Library of Fathers of the Holy Catholic Church, Anterior to the Division of the East and West, Translated by Members of the English Church. Volume 47_ (Oxford: James Parker, 1881), pp 183-84.

N.B. It is possible that this translation of Cyril or the Greek edition on which it was based is unreliable at this point. If you have any relevant information concerning it, please post it in the below discussion.

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## Phil D. (Aug 1, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> N.B. It is possible that this translation of Cyril or the Greek edition on which it was based is unreliable at this point.


The translation is consistant with the Greek in Migne (PG 76:245f).

In any case, being from Alexandria Cyril's omission is not too surprising, as the Alexandrian text-type omits the Comma - although notably the earliest of these, Codex Vaticanus (c. 325 AD), has an umlaut (...) at the point in question, which scribes generally used to indicate there was a known textual variant, although, quite maddeningly, usually without indicating exactly what it was...

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## Taylor (Aug 2, 2021)

Phil D. said:


> In any case, being from Alexandria Cyril's omission is not too surprising, as the Alexandrian text-type omits the Comma - although notably the earliest of these, Codex Vaticanus (c. 325 AD), has an umlaut (...) at the point in question, which scribes generally used to indicate there was a known textual variant, although, quite maddeningly, usually without indicating exactly what it was...


Where did you read this? I looked at the images of both Vaticanus and Sinaiticus, and all I can see is that the _upsilon_ in ὕδωρ ("water") in v. 8 has an umlaut (a double-dot above). But as far as I am aware, this is not meant to mark textual variants, as it occurs in other instances of ὕδωρ in 1 John, as well. Besides, the _Comma_ occurs in between μαρτυροῦντες ("bearing record") in v. 7 and τὸ πνεῦμα ("the spirit") in v. 8, not on ὕδωρ in v. 8.

Below is the last part of v. 7 going into v. 8:


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## Phil D. (Aug 2, 2021)

It's in the margin of the original. There are more than seven hundred similar to this throughout the manuscript, and they largely occur where there are known textual variants. The common claim used to be that it must have been interlopated at a later date, but the latest analysis gives reason to believe it's probably original. The presence of these markers also increases confidence in the integrity of the scribe. He doubtless was not perfect or without his own biases, but he apparently was willing to note where he had to make critical textual decisions.

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## Taylor (Aug 2, 2021)

Phil D. said:


> It's in the margin of the original. There are more than seven hundred similar to this throughout the manuscript, and they largely occurr where there are known textual variants. The common claim used to be that it must have been interlopated at a later date, but the latest analysis gives reason to believe it's probably original.
> 
> View attachment 8214


I suppose my mistake was thinking the images on CSNTM were the originals. I should have known better, since the type was so neat. I'll look more into this.


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## Eyedoc84 (Aug 2, 2021)

The reading was certainly known at least as far back as aleph and B, we just lack extant mss with it that far back. I never knew about the ellipsis in B. Fascinating.


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