# Joel R. Beeke's New Systematic Theology



## bookslover (Apr 1, 2019)

Well, the official publication date was yesterday (March 31).

But (1) it's still listed, ominously, as a pre-order item at Reformation Heritage Books's website and (2) Amazon says, ominously, that it will be delivered in "1 to 2 months."

This is not looking good. Does this mean we have to wait EVEN LONGER?

Grrr. We are not amused.


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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 1, 2019)

bookslover said:


> Well, the official publication date was yesterday (March 31).
> 
> But (1) it's still listed, ominously, as a pre-order item at Reformation Heritage Books's website and (2) Amazon says, ominously, that it will be delivered in "1 to 2 months."
> 
> ...



I will ask Dr. Beeke what the new date is when I talk to him later.


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## bookslover (Apr 1, 2019)

UPDATE: I talked to a plugged-in guy at RHB (I called because I had a question about something else) about the book. He says the books should be coming in later this week, and they'll start shipping them later this week and next week.

He also told me they have nearly 700 pre-orders for it. Nice to know people are interested in theology.

So, apparently, Crossway (and other publishers?) doesn't release the physical books to bookstores until the official publication date has literally passed? Legalists! LOL

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## bookslover (Apr 11, 2019)

UPDATE: It showed up today (4/11) at my house. I could have kissed the mailman (but I refrained). A nice-looking volume, too.

Actual pagination: 1,309.

I've already started it.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 11, 2019)

bookslover said:


> UPDATE: It showed up today (4/11) at my house. I could have kissed the mailman (but I refrained). A nice-looking volume, too.
> 
> Actual pagination: 1,309.
> 
> I've already started it.



I am glad you received it. It is worth the wait. You will be blessed by it. The study questions are a nice feature.


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## TheInquirer (Apr 11, 2019)

Would love to hear your thoughts on it at some point especially in comparison to other systematic works.


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## JTB.SDG (Apr 11, 2019)

This is just Volume 1, correct?


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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 11, 2019)

Yes. I can post the TOC if anyone is interested to see the subject matter that is covered in volume one.


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## J.L. Allen (Apr 11, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Yes. I can post the TOC if anyone is interested to see the subject matter that is covered in volume one.


Please. I haven’t gotten mine yet.


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## Timmay (Apr 11, 2019)

I got mine at LigCon but my preorder copy showed up Monday. I’m gonna give it to my church library. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 11, 2019)

"
*Contents*




Abbreviations........................................................................................................... 13

Tables.......................................................................................................................... 15

Preface........................................................................................................................ 17

PART 1: PROLEGOMENA: INTRODUCTION TO THEOLOGY AND THE DOCTRINE OF REVELATION

Analytical Outline: Prolegomena......................................................................... 25

Section A: Introduction to Theology

1 What Is Theology? Part 1: An Academic Discipline............................. 39

2 What Is Theology? Part 2: A Spiritual Discipline................................. 55

3 Who Does Theology? Where? When?....................................................... 68

4 Which Theology Do We Do? Part 1: Christian, Catholic, Evangelical............. 83

5 Which Theology Do We Do? Part 2: Reformed: Historical, Confessional, Theological, and Hermeneutical Perspectives.................................. 101

6 Which Theology Do We Do? Part 3: Reformed: Polemical and Experiential Perspectives................................................................................................... 115

7 Why Do We Do Theology?....................................................................... 130

8 How Do We Do Theology? Part 1: Spiritual Dynamics.................. 145

9 How Do We Do Theology? Part 2: Academic Methods................. 159

Section B: The Doctrine of Revelation

10 Theological Fundamentals of Divine Revelation................................ 177

11 General Revelation, Part 1: Biblical Teaching...................................... 195







12 General Revelation, Part 2: Philosophy and Science......................... 214

13 General Revelation, Part 3: Natural Theology and Theistic Arguments 231

Excursus: Some Historical Perspective on Natural Theology and

Theistic Proofs.............................................................................................. 244

14 Special Revelation: Biblical Teaching..................................................... 264

15 Errors Regarding Special Revelation, Part 1: Romanism

and Liberalism.............................................................................................. 281

16 Errors Regarding Special Revelation, Part 2:

Liberalism’s Offspring................................................................................ 298

17 The Bible as the Word of God.................................................................. 316

18 The Properties of the Written Word, Part 1: Authority

and Clarity...................................................................................................... 334

19 The Properties of the Written Word, Part 2: Necessity, Unity,

and Efficacy................................................................................................... 352

20 The Properties of the Written Word, Part 3: Inerrant

Veracity.......................................................................................................... 371

21 The Properties of the Written Word, Part 4: Objections

to Inerrancy................................................................................................... 383

22 The Properties of the Written Word, Part 5: Sufficiency................. 395

23 The Cessation of Special Revelation, Part 1:

Charismatic Continuationism................................................................... 409

24 The Cessation of Special Revelation, Part 2: Prophecy Today . . .433

25 Applied Revelation for Practical Fruit................................................... 458

*PART 2: THEOLOGY PROPER: THE DOCTRINE OF GOD*

Analytical Outline: Theology Proper............................................................... 483

*Section A: The Doctrine of God’s Triune Glory*

26 Introduction: The True Knowledge of God.......................................... 501

27 Introduction to God’s Nature and Attributes, Part 1:

Biblical Teaching.......................................................................................... 518







28 Introduction to God’s Nature and Attributes, Part 2:

Theological Issues........................................................................................ 533

29 The Name of “the Lord” (_YHWH_)........................................................ 549

30 The Holiness of the Lord........................................................................... 566

31 Gods That Are Not God............................................................................ 584

32 God’s Spirituality.......................................................................................... 606

33 God’s Simplicity: “The Lord Our God Is One Lord”...................... 624

34 God’s Infinity, Part 1: Incomprehensibility, Aseity,

and Immensity.............................................................................................. 638

35 God’s Infinity, Part 2: Eternity: Infinity with Respect to Time....... 659

Excursus: Problems of Time and Eternity...................................................... 673

36 God’s Immutability, Part 1: Biblical Teaching..................................... 685

37 God’s Immutability, Part 2: Theological Issues................................... 702

38 God’s Knowledge, Part 1: Omniscience and Wisdom....................... 719

39 God’s Knowledge, Part 2: Foreknowledge............................................ 739

40 God’s Sovereignty: An Introduction to Omnipotence....................... 758

41 God’s Moral Excellence, Part 1: Goodness and Love....................... 781

42 God’s Moral Excellence, Part 2: Truth and Righteousness.............. 805

43 God’s Moral Excellence, Part 3: Jealousy, Impassibility, and Joy...... 829

44 God’s Moral Excellence, Part 4: Wrath and Compassion................ 852

45 The Trinity, Part 1: Biblical Teaching.................................................... 876

46 The Trinity, Part 2: Historical Development........................................ 902

47 The Trinity, Part 3: Theological and Practical Considerations . . .929

*Section B: The Doctrine of God’s Sovereign Purpose*

48 The Decree of God: General Considerations........................................ 957

49 Predestination, Part 1: Election and Reprobation.............................. 979

50 Predestination, Part 2: Historical Development through

Reformed Orthodoxy............................................................................... 1000







51 Predestination, Part 3: Questions and Uses...................................... 1031

52 God’s Providence, Part 1: Biblical Teaching....................................... 1058

53 God’s Providence, Part 2: Problems and Applications................... 1081

*Section C: The Doctrine of Angels and Demons*

54 The Holy Angels of God......................................................................... 1109

55 Satan and the Demons............................................................................. 1133

Bibliography......................................................................................................... 1159

General Index....................................................................................................... 1215

Scripture Index.................................................................................................... 1245
"

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## bookslover (Apr 12, 2019)

JTB.SDG said:


> This is just Volume 1, correct?



Yes, of four.


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## bookslover (Apr 12, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> I am glad you received it. It is worth the wait. You will be blessed by it. The study questions are a nice feature.



I'm now impatiently waiting for the arrival of Volume 2 - in about a year from now! LOL


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## lynnie (Apr 12, 2019)

We got it last night. I didn't start reading it yet. 

I was actually disappointed because I was picturing a better version of Grudem, ie, something more accessible for laymen with better theology in some areas. This looks daunting to most people I would think, except to look up some special topic. 

Well, maybe time to pray that people change their reading habits. No point wanting to dumb down books.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 12, 2019)

lynnie said:


> This looks daunting to most people I would think, except to look up some special topic.



If you don't mind me asking, what appears daunting about it?


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## JTB.SDG (Apr 12, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> If you don't mind me asking, what appears daunting about it?


Guessing it might have something to do with it being 1312 pages...for volume 1

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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 12, 2019)

JTB.SDG said:


> Guessing it might have something to do with it being 1312 pages...for volume 1



Makes sense. It can look intimidating. I think those reservations will subside once people start reading it. In typical Dr. Beeke fashion, it is warmly written, easy to digest, and a treasure of great quotes.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 12, 2019)

lynnie said:


> I was actually disappointed because I was picturing a better version of Grudem, ie, something more accessible for laymen with better theology in some areas.



Such a book would be most welcome. Wayne Grudem's is the best modern systematic theology in terms of presentation, though, from a Reformed point of view, some of the author's positions are highly problematic.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 12, 2019)

Is Dr Beeke's co-author still a Baptist?


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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 12, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Is Dr Beeke's co-author still a Baptist?


Paul Smalley, yes. He is his teaching assistant.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 12, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Paul Smalley, yes. He is his teaching assistant.



Then how can it be a _Reformed_ systematic theology? Sacramentology is pretty important to Reformed theology.

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## TheInquirer (Apr 12, 2019)

How big is the type? Similar to his other large books? (I can't tell from the Amazon preview)

Questions I have when you guys are able to answer:


How would you compare this with Berkhof and A'Brakel as far as depth and precision on each topic?

How much space is given to application?
What do you think Beeke offers in this work that other Reformed systematicians do not?
Thanks in advance - I am genuinely making an effort to cut down on my impulse book buying addiction.

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## Taylor (Apr 12, 2019)

TheInquirer said:


> I am genuinely making an effort to cut down on my impulse book buying addiction.



Although I have gotten better myself, I still find that the leopard can more easily change his spots...

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## RamistThomist (Apr 12, 2019)

TheInquirer said:


> How would you compare this with Berkhof and A'Brakel as far as depth and precision on each topic?
> 
> How much space is given to application?
> 
> What do you think Beeke offers in this work that other Reformed systematicians do not?



Even though I haven't read this book, I've read most of Beeke's works (which means I've probably already read 200 pages of this book). I think I can guess an answer:

1. Berkhof is probably far more precise. That was Berkhof's strength. Probably similar to A'Brakel since Beeke seems to deliberately aim for that tradition.

2. Lots, I'd imagine.

3. Dutch 2nd Reformation.

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## bookslover (Apr 12, 2019)

If you would like a taste of Beeke and Smalley, check out the post, "Historical Theology," at my blog listed in my signature. It's currently the top post. It's good (both the post and the blog, heh).

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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 12, 2019)

Will these volumes be available as PDFs? Given the point that Jacob has alluded to about the Dutch Further Reformation, I suspect that there might be a lot of quotations from previously untranslated Dutch primary sources. If so, that might entice me to read through it.


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## Stephen L Smith (Apr 12, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Dutch 2nd Reformation.


I think this is an important point. For me, Beeke is very helpful in showing that the Dutch 2nd Reformation had esentially the same emphasis as British Puritanism.

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## TheInquirer (Apr 13, 2019)

Thanks for the response gents. Beeke is an impressive guy and I love what he is trying to do. We need more experimental preachers in the pulpit who are also deeply theological. My heart certainly longs for it. 



Taylor Sexton said:


> Although I have gotten better myself, I still find that the leopard can more easily change his spots...



Ha! Sure feels like it. What’s worse is my wife completely supports my habit

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## Stephen L Smith (Apr 13, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Then how can it be a _Reformed_ systematic theology?


That reminds me of a comment by OPC Pastor Carl Trueman regarding one of his former students, now a pastor of a *PCA* church. Carl said he is "not far from the Kingdom of God". Carl further said of a Baptist pastor, he is "not too far from the kingdom of God", perhaps a little further away

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## bookslover (Apr 13, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Then how can it be a _Reformed_ systematic theology? Sacramentology is pretty important to Reformed theology.



I asked Dr. Beeke that question: since he's Dutch Reformed and Smalley is Reformed Baptist, how will the section on baptism play out? He responded that the two of them have only talked about that once so far but, as it won't be discussed until Volume 4, they have plenty of time to hash that out.

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## bookslover (Apr 13, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Makes sense. It can look intimidating. I think those reservations will subside once people start reading it. In typical Dr. Beeke fashion, it is warmly written, easy to digest, and a treasure of great quotes.



I'm almost a hundred pages in. It's easy to read and thoughtfully written. My only complaint is that he insists on using the King James Version, which is really annoying. It could put some people off from reading the book, which would be a shame. As for me, when I read one of his quotes from the KJV, I silently correct the 17th-century grammar in my head ("them which" gets corrected to "those who," etc.).

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## Hamalas (Apr 13, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I'm almost a hundred pages in. It's easy to read and thoughtfully written. My only complaint is that he insists on using the King James Version, which is really annoying. It could put some people off from reading the book, which would be a shame. As for me, when I read one of his quotes from the KJV, I silently correct the 17th-century grammar in my head ("them which" gets corrected to "those who," etc.).



I was a bit surprised that the publishers of the ESV would agree to publish such a substantial work that uses a different translation!

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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 13, 2019)

I bought mine April 5th at the Reformation Indy Conference.


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## bookslover (Apr 13, 2019)

Hamalas said:


> I was a bit surprised that the publishers of the ESV would agree to publish such a substantial work that uses a different translation!



They also use the ESV, per the copyright page, but I haven't seen much of it, yet!

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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 13, 2019)

You may download an extract of the book from here.


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## Taylor (Apr 13, 2019)

Hamalas said:


> I was a bit surprised that the publishers of the ESV would agree to publish such a substantial work that uses a different translation!



They didn’t have anything to lose or gain, I wouldn’t think. If they used the ESV, they wouldn’t have pay for permission, and using the KJV doesn’t require paying anyone for permission, either.

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## Brian R. (Apr 13, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I'm almost a hundred pages in. It's easy to read and thoughtfully written. My only complaint is that he insists on using the King James Version, which is really annoying. It could put some people off from reading the book, which would be a shame. As for me, when I read one of his quotes from the KJV, I silently correct the 17th-century grammar in my head ("them which" gets corrected to "those who," etc.).


Some of us love Dr. Beeke for his loyalty to the KJV!

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## J.L. Allen (Apr 14, 2019)

I got mine today! I sent a text out to a bunch of friends in my excitement. To some of y’all actually.

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## TheInquirer (Apr 14, 2019)

You all convinced me - ordered.

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## JTB.SDG (Apr 14, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I asked Dr. Beeke that question: since he's Dutch Reformed and Smalley is Reformed Baptist, how will the section on baptism play out? He responded that the two of them have only talked about that once so far but, as it won't be discussed until Volume 4, they have plenty of time to hash that out.


Maybe he'll have him "converted" by that time.

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## greenbaggins (Apr 14, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I'm almost a hundred pages in. It's easy to read and thoughtfully written. My only complaint is that he insists on using the King James Version, which is really annoying. It could put some people off from reading the book, which would be a shame. As for me, when I read one of his quotes from the KJV, I silently correct the 17th-century grammar in my head ("them which" gets corrected to "those who," etc.).



Richard, as you are well aware, I am not a KJV advocate, if one means that one must only use the KJV. However, I ask the question: why would it be annoying? It doesn't annoy you when you read the Puritans, and they use the KJV, does it? If not, why should it annoy you that the president of PURITAN Reformed Theological Seminary uses the KJV? It is a highly venerable and still incredibly important translation that has stood the test of time better than most other publications of any sort. Beeke's point in using the translation is to underline his historical connection with not only the Nadere Reformatie, but also the Puritans.

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## greenbaggins (Apr 14, 2019)

There is a quotation from the ESV on page 48.

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## Stephen L Smith (Apr 14, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> It doesn't annoy you when you read the Puritans, and they use the KJV, does it? If not, why should it annoy you that the president of PURITAN Reformed Theological Seminary uses the KJV? It is a highly venerable and still incredibly important translation that has stood the test of time


I hope this does not start a KJV bird fight. Birds can be quite vicious when they fight due to ther sharp "Beeke"s

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## bookslover (Apr 14, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> Richard, as you are well aware, I am not a KJV advocate, if one means that one must only use the KJV. However, I ask the question: why would it be annoying? It doesn't annoy you when you read the Puritans, and they use the KJV, does it? If not, why should it annoy you that the president of PURITAN Reformed Theological Seminary uses the KJV? It is a highly venerable and still incredibly important translation that has stood the test of time better than most other publications of any sort. Beeke's point in using the translation is to underline his historical connection with not only the Nadere Reformatie, but also the Puritans.



I also correct the KJV grammar in my head when I read the Puritans. 

I'm not sure how venerable it should be, Lane. I've just finished reading the late Derek Kidner's commentaries on the Book of Psalms and the Book of Proverbs (both highly recommended, by the way). In both of those commentaries, Kidner is constantly correcting the KJV from the Hebrew.

Beeke is also now the general editor, as you know, of the series of commentaries known as _Lectio Continua_ (might not be the exact title), in which preachers preach through books of the Bible and those sermon series are published as commentaries. Beeke has decreed that the pastors who agree to contribute to the series may only use the KJV or the NKJV. 

Why should not each pastor be allowed to preach from whatever translation he usually uses in his own pulpit? Sounds a little fanatical to me!


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## bookslover (Apr 14, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> There is a quotation from the ESV on page 48.



Yes, they're in there, but they seem pretty sparse, so far!


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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 14, 2019)

bookslover said:


> Sounds a little fanatical to me!



I am sorry but this is an absurd comment. How about for the sake of consistency? There are other commentary series that only allow one base translation. I don't see an issue If they agree to be a part of a series knowing beforehand that the core translation is set. Plus, it is not as if they are censored from interacting with the original languages along with proposing their own translations of words or phrases within the exegetical section.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 14, 2019)

You have to remember that there are is a significant body of opinion that will likely not read, buy, or will, at least, heavily criticise any book that is not primarily based on the KJV. Many of these same people like Joel Beeke's material partly because he cites the KJV. By relying on any other translation, he would likely lose the support of these people. 



bookslover said:


> Beeke has decreed that the pastors who agree to contribute to the series may only use the KJV or the NKJV.



I am glad that he at least accepts other contributors using the NKJV.

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## bookslover (Apr 14, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> I am sorry but this is an absurd comment. How about for the sake of consistency? There are other commentary series that only allow one base translation. I don't see an issue If they agree to be a part of a series knowing beforehand that the core translation is set. Plus, it is not as if they are censored from interacting with the original languages along with proposing their own translations of words or phrases within the exegetical section.



I once heard a sermon by Martyn Lloyd-Jones during which he either had to explain or correct the KJV four or five times during the course of his sermon. Why burden yourself with all that extra work when you don't have to? Why take up precious sermon time with explanations and/or corrections when you could be spending that time preaching the Word?


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## Brian R. (Apr 15, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I once heard a sermon by Martyn Lloyd-Jones during which he either had to explain or correct the KJV four or five times during the course of his sermon. Why burden yourself with all that extra work when you don't have to? Why take up precious sermon time with explanations and/or corrections when you could be spending that time preaching the Word?


But MLJ also corrects the RSV, which I think they had in their pews, on multiple occasions. I've heard preachers question/correct the ESV, NASB, and NKJV from their pulpits, even preachers who preferred those modern translations.

So needing to "fix" the English text really isn't a strike against the KJV.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 15, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I once heard a sermon by Martyn Lloyd-Jones during which he either had to explain or correct the KJV four or five times during the course of his sermon. Why burden yourself with all that extra work when you don't have to? Why take up precious sermon time with explanations and/or corrections when you could be spending that time preaching the Word?


I have listened to hundreds of MLJ sermons. On numerous occasions, I have heard him prefer the King James' rendering of texts. I don't want to derail this thread into a translations battle. Either way, to charge Dr. Beeke with fanaticism over his preference of a translation is absurd. You didn't respond to any of my points. I will leave it at that in hopes that this thread will get back to the topic at hand.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 15, 2019)

Brian R. said:


> But MLJ also corrects the RSV, which I think they had in their pews, on multiple occasions.



From what I remember of Iain Murray's two-volume biography, I think that it was the Revised Version that they initially had in Westminster Chapel. I am nearly also sure that MLJ changed the pew Bible to the AV (probably because the RV was no longer widely circulated).

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## PaulCLawton (Apr 15, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> Richard, as you are well aware, I am not a KJV advocate, if one means that one must only use the KJV. However, I ask the question: why would it be annoying? It doesn't annoy you when you read the Puritans, and they use the KJV, does it? If not, why should it annoy you that the president of PURITAN Reformed Theological Seminary uses the KJV? It is a highly venerable and still incredibly important translation that has stood the test of time better than most other publications of any sort. Beeke's point in using the translation is to underline his historical connection with not only the Nadere Reformatie, but also the Puritans.



Dr. Beeke's 13 "Practical Reasons for Retaining the KJV"

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## PaulCLawton (Apr 15, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I asked Dr. Beeke that question: since he's Dutch Reformed and Smalley is Reformed Baptist, how will the section on baptism play out? He responded that the two of them have only talked about that once so far but, as it won't be discussed until Volume 4, they have plenty of time to hash that out.



I can't say I understand this response, is the only place where the Reformed and so-called Reformed Baptist positions differ on the proper recipients of the sacrament itself?


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## bookslover (Apr 15, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> From what I remember of Iain Murray's two-volume biography, I think that it was the Revised Version that they initially had in Westminster Chapel. I am nearly also sure that MLJ changed the pew Bible to the AV (probably because the RV was no longer widely circulated).



Makes sense. MLJ was definitely a KJV man.


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## bookslover (Apr 15, 2019)

PaulCLawton said:


> I can't say I understand this response, is the only place where the Reformed and so-called Reformed Baptist positions differ on the proper recipients of the sacrament itself?



I guess we'll have to wait until Volume 4 is published to find out!

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## Jack K (Apr 16, 2019)

As we might expect, for a limited time the volume is available at 50% off list price from the fine folks at Westminster Bookstore, who are a true blessing to the church.

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## bookslover (Apr 16, 2019)

Jack K said:


> As we might expect, for a limited time the volume is available at 50% off list price from the fine folks at Westminster Bookstore, who are a true blessing to the church.



As well as 50% off from Reformation Heritage Books - or 3 copies for $75!


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## J.L. Allen (Apr 16, 2019)

bookslover said:


> As well as 50% off from Reformation Heritage Books - or 3 copies for $75!


Gotta love that bulk buy option.


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## Regi Addictissimus (Apr 16, 2019)

Johnathan Lee Allen said:


> Gotta love that bulk buy option.



Yes, sir! We had a ton of preorders. The response to it's release has been really encouraging. We are planning something pretty cool with Dr. Beeke and Paul Smalley to celebrate it's release. I will post it on the PB when I get the green light.

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## bookslover (Apr 17, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Yes, sir! We had a ton of preorders. The response to it's release has been really encouraging. We are planning something pretty cool with Dr. Beeke and Paul Smalley to celebrate it's release. I will post it on the PB when I get the green light.



Yes, indeed. My man at RHB told me that they had nearly 700 pre-orders, an amount second only to the number of pre-orders for the _Reformation Heritage KJV Study Bible_.

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## Stephen L Smith (Apr 22, 2019)

Brian R. said:


> But MLJ also corrects the RSV, which I think they had in their pews





Reformed Covenanter said:


> From what I remember of Iain Murray's two-volume biography, I think that it was the Revised Version that they initially had in Westminster Chapel. I am nearly also sure that MLJ changed the pew Bible to the AV (probably because the RV was no longer widely circulated).


Yes they had the RV under Campbell Morgan and MLJ switched to the KJV because the Biography records that MLJ thought the KJV was a better preaching Bible.

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## Stephen L Smith (Apr 22, 2019)

JTB.SDG said:


> Maybe he'll have him "converted" by that time.


Your comment is ambiguous Jon. Thus the Baptists and Paedobaptists on this Board will have different presuppositions on who will convert who

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## bookslover (May 3, 2019)

It occurs to me that, if all four volumes are as fat as Volume 1, the entire systematic theology is going to run to more than 5,000 pages, making it, possibly, the longest ST ever published!

Maybe, after all four volumes have come out, Beeke and Smalley will provide a one-volume abridgment, a la Bavinck.

Reactions: Like 2


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## TheInquirer (May 3, 2019)

Im only a few chapters in but extremely impressed so far.

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## Reformed Covenanter (May 3, 2019)

I had a look at volume 1 when I was in Evangelical Bookshop in Belfast on Tuesday. It looks good, but I need another systematic theology like Melania Trump needs another pair of shoes.

Reactions: Funny 4


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## Brian R. (May 3, 2019)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I need another systematic theology like Melania Trump needs another pair of shoes.



Unfortunately I'm in the same boat. Otherwise I'd grab this Beeke work in a second.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## greenbaggins (May 3, 2019)

bookslover said:


> It occurs to me that, if all four volumes are as fat as Volume 1, the entire systematic theology is going to run to more than 5,000 pages, making it, possibly, the longest ST ever published!
> 
> Maybe, after all four volumes have come out, Beeke and Smalley will provide a one-volume abridgment, a la Bavinck.



In English, perhaps. Johann Gerhard, Bernardus de Moor, and Amandus Polanus all have Beeke beat by a wide margin in terms of page count. The first two are being translated, and the Gerhard already has about 13 volumes published in English now.

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## Reformed Covenanter (May 3, 2019)

greenbaggins said:


> In English, perhaps. Johann Gerhard, Bernardus de Moor, and Amandus Polanus all have Beeke beat by a wide margin in terms of page count. The first two are being translated, and the Gerhard already has about 13 volumes published in English now.



Johann Gerhard was a Lutheran, wasn't he? If so, I presume that Concordia is translating that one.

R. M. Hurd, who has done some translation work for the Davenant Institute, is working on Amandus Polanus's ST, though I think it may have stalled a bit for the time being.

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## Dachaser (May 4, 2019)

bookslover said:


> It occurs to me that, if all four volumes are as fat as Volume 1, the entire systematic theology is going to run to more than 5,000 pages, making it, possibly, the longest ST ever published!
> 
> Maybe, after all four volumes have come out, Beeke and Smalley will provide a one-volume abridgment, a la Bavinck.


I am curious as to how they will be treating the issue of the church and ordinances, as they would come from differing perspectives on those issues.


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## bookslover (May 4, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> I am curious as to how they will be treating the issue of the church and ordinances, as they would come from differing perspectives on those issues.



I guess we'll have to wait until Volume 4 to find out. The Dutch Reformed guy (Beeke) and the Reformed Baptist guy (Smalley) also have baptism to hash out in that volume.


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## Dachaser (May 4, 2019)

bookslover said:


> I guess we'll have to wait until Volume 4 to find out. The Dutch Reformed guy (Beeke) and the Reformed Baptist guy (Smalley) also have baptism to hash out in that volume.


Wonder if they would give the view of Dr Beeke, and then have the reformed Baptist gave the counter point?


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## bookslover (May 4, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> Wonder if they would give the view of Dr Beeke, and then have the reformed Baptist gave the counter point?



That's an interesting idea.


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## Dachaser (May 7, 2019)

bookslover said:


> That's an interesting idea.


There have been books in the past, like on the major views regarding end timnes, that have each author write about the others viewpoints.


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## Regi Addictissimus (May 8, 2019)

Dachaser said:


> Wonder if they would give the view of Dr Beeke, and then have the reformed Baptist gave the counter point?


I briefly discussed this over lunch with Dr. Beeke today. As of right now, this won't be the approach. He said they haven't discussed it too in-depth as there is much ground to cover before then. He has an idea on how they may approach the topic that allows both to share their views. I believe it to be a good idea that respects our Baptist brothers and sisters. After they decide on whether or not they will go in this direction, I will let you all know more specifics.


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## bookslover (May 9, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> I briefly discussed this over lunch with Dr. Beeke today. As of right now, this won't be the approach. He said they haven't discussed it too in-depth as there is much ground to cover before then. He has an idea on how they may approach the topic that allows both to share their views. I believe it to be a good idea that respects our Baptist brothers and sisters. After they decide on whether or not they will go in this direction, I will let you all know more specifics.



If you get a chance, you might ask him if there might be a one-volume abridgment some day, after all four volumes have been published. Also, you might inquire about him getting his Heidelberg Catechism sermons (published years ago in a sort of 3-ring binder-type format) re-edited and published as a proper set of hardback books.


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## Regi Addictissimus (May 9, 2019)

bookslover said:


> If you get a chance, you might ask him if there might be a one-volume abridgment some day, after all four volumes have been published. Also, you might inquire about him getting his Heidelberg Catechism sermons (published years ago in a sort of 3-ring binder-type format) re-edited and published as a proper set of hardback books.



I will ask him about the possibility of an abridgment tomorrow. Concerning his sermons on the Heidelberg, I was talking to him last week about this. I also would like him to edit these and officially release them. As of right now, there aren't any plans to do so. Although, I intend to keep this idea fresh in his mind. We currently have a lot of major projects going on so it would be quite a while before I mention it to him again. These new projects are truly quite exciting and I can't wait to share them. All I can say now is they are truly special.

Reactions: Like 2


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## C. M. Sheffield (May 9, 2019)

JTB.SDG said:


> Maybe he'll have him "converted" by that time.


I'm sure you're right. Dr. Smalley will have him converted in no time.


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## Dachaser (May 28, 2019)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> I briefly discussed this over lunch with Dr. Beeke today. As of right now, this won't be the approach. He said they haven't discussed it too in-depth as there is much ground to cover before then. He has an idea on how they may approach the topic that allows both to share their views. I believe it to be a good idea that respects our Baptist brothers and sisters. After they decide on whether or not they will go in this direction, I will let you all know more specifics.


Will be interesting to see a Theology that will flesh out just where we among those holding to Reformed doctrines agee and also disagree on.


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## A.Joseph (May 28, 2019)

Stephen L Smith said:


> I think this is an important point. For me, Beeke is very helpful in showing that the Dutch 2nd Reformation had esentially the same emphasis as British Puritanism.


What are the benefits and the possible detriments of holding to a 2nd reformation/Puritan experiential emphasis? Where did John Calvin fall short that such an emphasis was necessary? Or was it a response to a reality not considered in the days of Calvin? Was John Calvin derelict in any way in these areas?


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## A.Joseph (May 28, 2019)

...also, how does “experiential” theology help and/or hinder assurance?


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## RamistThomist (May 28, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> What are the benefits and the possible detriments of holding to a 2nd reformation/Puritan experiential emphasis? Where did John Calvin fall short that such an emphasis was necessary? Or was it a response to a reality not considered in the days of Calvin? Was John Calvin derelict in any way in these areas?



It's easy to start doubting whether your experience is "real enough" or "strong enough" and to start trusting in that experience rather than in the promise of Christ.

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## A.Joseph (May 28, 2019)

I like Joel Beeke a lot.

I’m struggling with what he’s says about his dad being a very Godly man AND a hypercalvinist? That would be a contradiction, no?

“I was raised in a godly home, but one where salvation seemed almost impossible because of hyper-Calvinistic teachings. In this video interview, I share how the Lord convinced me of my sin and then led me to an assured faith in Jesus Christ.” http://www.joelbeeke.org/2019/03/conversations-1-how-i-became-a-christian/

From his testimony, it seems hypercalvinism tainted or informed his ‘experience’.... so how do we work through this ? Hypercalvinism seems to kinda fuel his understanding of some of these things, no? I’m just trying to see the fine line here. It would be interesting to know how he draws the line and makes the distinction because I hear some hypercalvinism in his testimony...

Also makes me think of a type of halfway covenant where if you grow up in the church your experience will not be so intense where you may begin to doubt salvation as a mere external part of form and custom of the culture in which you are raised

I’m not questioning Beeke’s salvation, I’m questioning if he is still prone to the problematic side of experiential faith in his ministry.

The life is filled with peaks and valleys as part of the right side of sanctification, which is a vital part of Christian experience and not a precondition

I mean his testimony is amazing and sincere and nobody has worked as hard as him and done so much for the reformed faith in our day. I guess God used him for the good he could bring and seemingly he left the bad instruction behind


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