# Dating a Non-Sabbatarian



## BuckeyeGirl (Jan 23, 2021)

Is it unwise to date/court a Christian with whom you have a different view of the Sabbath? I have a good friend who has expressed interest in me. I like him. However, we have a few theological differences. My main concern at this point is that we disagree about the Sabbath. While we have not discussed our views on the 4th commandment, I do know that he will eat out or go to stores on Sundays. I’m trying to figure out if this is a dealbreaker and would appreciate hearing other people’s opinions!

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## Pergamum (Jan 23, 2021)

Ugh.... if you are that strict you should be happy anybody will tolerate you at all!

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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 23, 2021)

It would be a deal breaker for me. But since you haven’t discussed your views on the Sabbath, why not do so and see if he’s open to learning and changing his view? Perhaps he’d read a book and listen to sermons on it?

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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 23, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> Ugh.... if you are that strict you should be happy anybody will tolerate you at all!

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 23, 2021)

@BuckeyeGirl - Is the person in question open to reason on the subject? If so, give them something (relatively simple) to read on the issue. J. C. Ryle's _Keep it Holy! _is a good place to start.

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## J.L. Allen (Jan 23, 2021)

BuckeyeGirl said:


> Is it unwise to date/court a Christian with whom you have a different view of the Sabbath? I have a good friend who has expressed interest in me. I like him. However, we have a few theological differences. My main concern at this point is that we disagree about the Sabbath. While we have not discussed our views on the 4th commandment, I do know that he will eat out or go to stores on Sundays. I’m trying to figure out if this is a dealbreaker and would appreciate hearing other people’s opinions!


That can be a difficult point to work through, but it is well worth talking through it. Maybe you both could sit down and go through the Westminster Standards together. It’s not being unequally yoked, but it is an immense burden to have sharp differences theologically.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 23, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> Ugh.... if you are that strict you should be happy anybody will tolerate you at all!



This thought has often crossed my mind as well when I read similar posts. "Guess what? Someone I have met is not theologically perfect!" I am not saying that some theological issues - including this one - ought not to be dealbreakers, but at least make an effort to discuss the subject and exercise some patience towards the other person, which, by the way, is how we would want to be treated ourselves if the shoe were on the other foot. However, the author of the OP is not writing the man in question off; she is just seeking some reasonable guidance.

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## Zach (Jan 23, 2021)

I don't think it should be a deal breaker at all that he's not a Sabbatarian. What would be a deal breaker is if he didn't respect your conscience on the matter. You'd have to have more conversations if your relationship progresses toward marriage about what that might look like but there's no reason for it to get in the way of getting to know each other.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 23, 2021)

A reformed pastor told me one of his biggest regrets is firming up his convictions on the godly observance of the Lord's day's till after his children were grown and that neglect he could see in their lives. So sure, talk it through, but it has significant consequences and is a moral issue, so in the end, if you won't be of the same mind, don't kid yourself on the consequences in a marriage and ill effects.

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## BuckeyeGirl (Jan 23, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> Ugh.... if you are that strict you should be happy anybody will tolerate you at all!


I see your point. My problem is that I have trouble figuring out at what point theological disagreements will cause practical problems in a relationship. Because the 4th commandment has practical applications - how we spend 1/7 of our week - it seems like disagreements here could cause problems. 

But I’m also the queen of overthinking things so maybe that’s what I’m doing.

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## Jonathan95 (Jan 23, 2021)

I find most Christians I come across have trouble understanding both the 2nd and 4th commandments, my wife being one of them. She didn't begin to question her belief on these issues until really meditating on the purpose of the 10 Commandments as the moral law for Christians.

Will this man lead his family to also disregard the Sabbath one day? How would that impact you? These are important matters to discuss and figure out. Do so respectfully and with love. Just my .

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## jw (Jan 23, 2021)

It has implications down the road with regard to submission and headship. It is -after all- the LORD's Day, even if some would say you're being "intolerable." He has commanded how you should spend such time, and if you and your husband are at odds with regard to such an understanding, that is problematic. If you marry this man, then you'll be subject to his leading, including on the LORD's Day. So, it would be important to work that out before going too much further, in my own estimation. It does not have to be contentious.

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## Pergamum (Jan 23, 2021)

Some of you guys should be happy any girls looks at you twice at all.

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## BuckeyeGirl (Jan 23, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> @BuckeyeGirl - Is the person in question open to reason on the subject? If so, give them something (relatively simple) to read on the issue. J. C. Ryle's _Keep it Holy! _is a good place to start.


While we haven’t discussed this particular subject, he is usually open to reasonable discussion of theological differences. Thanks for the recommendation!

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 23, 2021)

BuckeyeGirl said:


> While we haven’t discussed this particular subject, he is usually open to reasonable discussion of theological differences. Thanks for the recommendation!



That sounds good; also, if you can get him to read the Kindle edition of J. C. Ryle's pamphlet, @Logan will earn an extra $0.30! So, it gives you an opportunity to do good on two fronts!

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## Afterthought (Jan 23, 2021)

Objectively, Sabbath observance is the cornerstone of true piety, and breaking it is a great sin that destroyed the OT church and has destroyed the church afterwards time and time again. Subjectively, a lot depends on what your own Sabbath views are. The question you need to ask and answer is: Am I able to submit to his convictions in good conscience? Additionally, if you have the goal of passing on your stricter Sabbath convictions to your children, and he does not wish to do so, then you two have fundamental differences in goals for life. One must also take into consideration that everyone is a work in progress.

If there are doctrinal differences that would be dealbreakers that you are aware of before dating, I recommend getting them sorted out before getting too serious, preferably before dating even (but depends on the circumstances/situation). If you have men in your life that you can point him to, that is another good practical way to help with bringing him to your convictions.

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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 23, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> Ugh.... if you are that strict...


Surely you don’t hold to NCT? With that view of strictness, how do you view Nehemiah’s treatment of those who bought and sold on the Sabbath?

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## JTB.SDG (Jan 23, 2021)

BuckeyeGirl said:


> Is it unwise to date/court a Christian with whom you have a different view of the Sabbath? I have a good friend who has expressed interest in me. I like him. However, we have a few theological differences. My main concern at this point is that we disagree about the Sabbath. While we have not discussed our views on the 4th commandment, I do know that he will eat out or go to stores on Sundays. I’m trying to figure out if this is a dealbreaker and would appreciate hearing other people’s opinions!


Talk about it with him. Would be a total disservice to end the relationship without even sorting through it together.


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## JTB.SDG (Jan 23, 2021)

BuckeyeGirl said:


> I see your point. My problem is that I have trouble figuring out at what point theological disagreements will cause practical problems in a relationship. Because the 4th commandment has practical applications - how we spend 1/7 of our week - it seems like disagreements here could cause problems.
> 
> But I’m also the queen of overthinking things so maybe that’s what I’m doing.


My wife's parents are on different sides of the spectrum. They've done great.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 23, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> Some of you guys should be happy any girls looks at you twice at all.



Perg, we all know that your wife only looked twice at you because she thought that she needed a challenge.

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## Edward (Jan 23, 2021)

@BuckeyeGirl 

I'll start by echoing Daniel:



Reformed Covenanter said:


> "Guess what? Someone I have met is not theologically perfect!" I am not saying that some theological issues - including this one - ought not to be dealbreakers, but at least make an effort to discuss the subject and exercise some patience towards the other person, which, by the way, is how we would want to be treated ourselves if the shoe were on the other foot.



But what is more likely would be if you did find someone with whom you are in perfect accord, and then after marrying, growing in different directions in some area. 

I do have a question for you - after you marry, will you try to assert spiritual leadership in the relationship?

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## Pergamum (Jan 23, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Perg, we all know that your wife only looked twice at you because she thought that she needed a challenge.


She liked my biceps more than my ecclesiology.

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## ZackF (Jan 23, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> She liked my biceps more than my ecclesiology.


I guess you have to do the best with what you've got!


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 23, 2021)

Closing for the Lord's Day, so at least joking about if not actually deriding sound doctrine of the Sabbath as somehow not a moral issue to be taken seriously in the question of marriage, will just have to hold off till Monday.

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## Logan (Jan 25, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> That sounds good; also, if you can get him to read the Kindle edition of J. C. Ryle's pamphlet, @Logan will earn an extra $0.30! So, it gives you an opportunity to do good on two fronts!



That's true! It also has a nice introduction by @Reformed Covenanter and I've sold a grand total of 15 copies in past 3 years. I don't think I promised him any of the royalties...but he should have somewhere around 25 cents built up by now. 

I definitely agree it's worth a conversation. I don't know where your convictions stand exactly or where his does, but it would be something to consider the practicality of, for later on down the road. It could at the very least cause conflict if one would like to do something and the other can't participate because of conscience. 

When I was getting to know my (now) wife, I told her up front that I thought the fair thing to both of us would be to voice any potential concerns or wonderings as early as possible. 

I don't know that I would plunk a theological treatise in front of him just yet, but just state that what you've been thinking of, your personal convictions (and the reasoning behind them) and ask what he thinks about that. And see where the conversation goes from there.


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## De Jager (Jan 25, 2021)

BuckeyeGirl said:


> I see your point. My problem is that I have trouble figuring out at what point theological disagreements will cause practical problems in a relationship. Because the 4th commandment has practical applications - how we spend 1/7 of our week - it seems like disagreements here could cause problems.
> 
> But I’m also the queen of overthinking things so maybe that’s what I’m doing.


It's not just 1/7th of a week...if you get married it will be 1/7th of the rest of your life.

I can speak from experience and say that it is a great blessing that my wife and I agree on how we spend Sundays. We may not be as strict as some (i.e. thou shalt not smile on the sabbath) but we agree that we will not shop, eat out, etc. and that it is generally a day for worship and Christian fellowship. It is advantageous to figure this stuff out ASAP. I will not tell you that you should or shouldn't talk to this person.

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## ChristianLibertarian (Jan 25, 2021)

It seems to me that if you haven't talked to him, you really don't know his view on the Sabbath. It's entirely possible that he never thought about the issue or studied it in any way. What you view as a potential deal breaker could be little more than ignorance on his part. There is no harm in discussing the matter with him.


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## Frosty (Jan 25, 2021)

A lot will depend on your personalities and communication skills. It is important, and the subject needs broached ASAP if you are interested in a relationship with him.

If you were the guy I would tell you to start looking for the engagement ring (OK, OK, maybe not quite yet). But the headship issue is tricky in this case.

If he is one who will humbly and honestly study the subject, and take your concerns to heart, then that's a good start.

And don't be surprised if he reads the books, talks it over with you, etc....and doesn't immediately and enthusiastically embrace the Sabbath as you'd hope. Sometimes things take time. But if he shows he's teachable on the subject and cares for your heart, don't be afraid to keep chipping away on him.


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## TylerRay (Jan 25, 2021)

Jeri Tanner said:


> Surely you don’t hold to NCT? With that view of strictness, how do you view Nehemiah’s treatment of those who bought and sold on the Sabbath?


I don't think our brother's comment was meant to be taken seriously.

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## Jack K (Jan 25, 2021)

It helps to have general agreement on these matters, so it's worth discussing.

Many believers have a position on the Sabbath that they largely hold by default, not having really studied the issue, but rather just doing what they've seen others do or believing what they once heard someone say. So I don't think you should immediately reject an otherwise promising guy just because you've observed behavior that doesn't line up with your convictions. There's a high chance he's never actually studied the issue. You should talk about it with him, and perhaps study it together if he is willing.

If he is interested in you—in possibly becoming your partner in the Lord—he ought to be willing to study this with you. And you could learn a lot about whether or not he's the right guy for you not just by the conclusions you reach together, but even more by the approach you and he take to studying the issue and carrying for each other in the process. This is a great opportunity to find out how compatible you are in things that matter even more than correctly understanding the Sabbath: praying together, willingness to be led by God's Word, patience and respect for each other, etc.

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## Pergamum (Jan 25, 2021)

TylerRay said:


> I don't think our brother's comment was meant to be taken seriously.


I hold to the 1689, so yes, I believe in the Sabbath. NCT is Dispensationalism-lite.

But many TR micro-denominations major on several issues that really are not the main issues in a marriage. Are you going to drop a good woman over her beliefs on Psalms-only versus hymns? Good spousal candidates are in short supply in the US, after all. There is a nitpicky preciseness that can become very taxing in a marriage and this nitpickiness is often seen by some as a good trait instead of a bad trait. But I see it as a negative. Being flexible on some issues is a strength. 

Practically, Sabbatarians and non-Sabbatarian Christians all worship at least once on Sunday. Pragmatically speaking, many Christians are pretty similar no matter if they are TR rigid Reformed-types or Southern Baptists. They go to church on Sunday, it is pretty simple.

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## Afterthought (Jan 25, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> Are you going to drop a good woman over her beliefs on Psalms-only versus hymns?


If one has a heritage that one believes to be commandments from the Lord that they are trying to pass on to one's children, then a woman's beliefs and convictions can become important on matters like those. Speaking from personal experience, few women are willing to submit to those kinds of beliefs: they need to be convicted of them to be okay with them being taught and enforced in the church and house. Perhaps the women that would not submit on such things you would not view as a "good woman," but regardless, these are how the facts stand.


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## Pergamum (Jan 25, 2021)

Afterthought said:


> If one has a heritage that one believes to be commandments from the Lord that they are trying to pass on to one's children, then a woman's beliefs and convictions can become important on matters like those. Speaking from personal experience, few women are willing to submit to those kinds of beliefs: they need to be convicted of them to be okay with them being taught and enforced in the church and house. Perhaps the women that would not submit on such things you would not view as a "good woman," but regardless, these are how the facts stand.


Sure. From a baptist perspective, a man could insist on a woman who abides by the 1646 or whatever year that was and not the 1869 Confession. But that will shrink your perspective dating pool to a mere handful. If your convictions are strong enough, you might suffer decades of singleness for those rigid convictions. Plus, in my experience, I am suspicious of women who want to argue theology instead of talking to other women about how to care for one's husband and children. Most men are not impressed by women theologians (who seem usually to focus on correcting the menfolk); most men want somebody to love them and to love their children, and not to debate arcane theological points. I'd much rather see how a prospective spouse handles babies than how she parses a secondary theological point.

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## MChase (Jan 25, 2021)

Desiring that your future spouse has similar convictions is not some sort of domestical straining at gnats. The sabbath has huge practical import. While you are dating there is definitely room to teach, learn, and grow, but when the time comes for marriage you have to be okay (especially as a woman) with going along with what your husband believes. Not some sort of implicit faith, but he will be your head and guide. Talk to him and sit and read Isa. 58 and Heb. 4 and other key passages. His response will tell you everything. If a man isn’t willing to learn and listen to his future wife and is unteachable, it probably isn’t the best prospect for a spouse. On the other hand, if he is teachable it’s a great sign and patience ought to be exercised. Coming to a biblical view of the sabbath often doesn’t happen over night.

I have family where this sort of thing played out more or less exactly how I thought it would. The woman held to the abiding validity of the 4th commandment, though less strict than the Westminster standards hold out. The husband did not see any need for a sabbath day. Same sort of thing with head coverings. Now the woman doesn’t have much of a view of the sabbath or head coverings. Wives need husbands who will teach and guide them, not that are indifferent about rather large areas of practice.

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## ChristianLibertarian (Jan 25, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> I hold to the 1689, so yes, I believe in the Sabbath. NCT is Dispensationalism-lite.
> 
> But many TR micro-denominations major on several issues that really are not the main issues in a marriage. Are you going to drop a good woman over her beliefs on Psalms-only versus hymns? Good spousal candidates are in short supply in the US, after all. There is a nitpicky preciseness that can become very taxing in a marriage and this nitpickiness is often seen by some as a good trait instead of a bad trait. But I see it as a negative. Being flexible on some issues is a strength.
> 
> Practically, Sabbatarians and non-Sabbatarian Christians all worship at least once on Sunday. Pragmatically speaking, many Christians are pretty similar no matter if they are TR rigid Reformed-types or Southern Baptists. They go to church on Sunday, it is pretty simple.


It's much easier to be the man in this situation. So long as he finds a woman willing to submit, even if she disagrees on psalm singing it's not a huge burden in a marriage. For a woman though, if she has a conviction on psalm singing or the sabbath, as the OP indicates, it's a trickier issue. I can see why she would be concerned entering into a relationship with someone who isn't on board in a matter she is convicted on. She will be the one submitting to her husband and while he may not be able to lawfully require her to disobey the sabbath, one can imagine how the issue could strain a marriage.

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## De Jager (Jan 25, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> I hold to the 1689, so yes, I believe in the Sabbath. NCT is Dispensationalism-lite.
> 
> But many TR micro-denominations major on several issues that really are not the main issues in a marriage. Are you going to drop a good woman over her beliefs on Psalms-only versus hymns? Good spousal candidates are in short supply in the US, after all. There is a nitpicky preciseness that can become very taxing in a marriage and this nitpickiness is often seen by some as a good trait instead of a bad trait. But I see it as a negative. Being flexible on some issues is a strength.
> 
> Practically, Sabbatarians and non-Sabbatarian Christians all worship at least once on Sunday. Pragmatically speaking, many Christians are pretty similar no matter if they are TR rigid Reformed-types or Southern Baptists. They go to church on Sunday, it is pretty simple.


In my opinion, honouring the 4th commandment is not nitpicking, it is basic. We are not talking about head coverings or eating meat sacrificed to idols, we are talking about one of the ten commandments, and how a person practically lives that out.

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## De Jager (Jan 25, 2021)

MChase said:


> Desiring that your future spouse has similar convictions is not some sort of domestical straining at gnats. The sabbath has huge practical import. While you are dating there is definitely room to teach, learn, and grow, but when the time comes for marriage you have to be okay (especially as a woman) with going along with what your husband believes. Not some sort of implicit faith, but he will be your head and guide. Talk to him and sit and read Isa. 58 and Heb. 4 and other key passages. His response will tell you everything. If a man isn’t willing to learn and listen to his future wife and is unteachable, it probably isn’t the best prospect for a spouse. On the other hand, if he is teachable it’s a great sign and patience ought to be exercised. Coming to a biblical view of the sabbath often doesn’t happen over night.
> 
> I have family where this sort of thing played out more or less exactly how I thought it would. The woman held to the abiding validity of the 4th commandment, though less strict than the Westminster standards hold out. The husband did not see any need for a sabbath day. Same sort of thing with head coverings. Now the woman doesn’t have much of a view of the sabbath or head coverings. Wives need husbands who will teach and guide them, not that are indifferent about rather large areas of practice.


Would you say that it is usually the more "loose" view that ends up winning? I suppose it depends on who has which view, and how strong the personalities are. With my parents, I saw a decline on sabbath observance over time. When I was very young it was unthinkable to skip church to play sports on Sunday. By the time my little brother was in high school, that's what we did if there was a big hockey tournament happening. By God's grace we all realize that was a mistake, but it happened.


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## Pergamum (Jan 25, 2021)

De Jager said:


> In my opinion, honouring the 4th commandment is not nitpicking, it is basic. We are not talking about head coverings or eating meat sacrificed to idols, we are talking about one of the ten commandments, and how a person practically lives that out.


Honoring the 4th Commandment exactly as a TR would might be nitpicking. As I have said, even Dispensational Christians go to church on Sunday.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 25, 2021)

The concerns mentioned in the OP, Laboring and commerce on the Lord's Day, is not nitpicking TR stuff, whatever that means. One does not even have to descend down the list of rules to rightly understand the ten commandments; it's on the surface teaching of the Scriptures; the easy application, like cheating on one's spouse. I think the OP has sufficient answer. Thread closed.

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## Stephen L Smith (Jan 25, 2021)

Pergamum said:


> As I have said, even Dispensational Christians go to church on Sunday.


I personally agree one may allow some theological flexibility in marriage (it is the degree of flexibility that is where the debate lies). I agree Dispensational Christians go to church on Sunday. But in my experience, Dispensational Christians are happy to shop on the Lord's day or eat out at a restaurant. 

Westminster Confession 21:8
This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only *observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations*, but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.


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## Stephen L Smith (Jan 25, 2021)

Sorry Chris I did not realise you had closed the thread when doing my post. But I'm sure you will agree the quote from the WCF is a fitting way to conclude this.


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