# What to do when you can't "find a church"?



## WrittenFromUtopia

*What to do when you can\'t \"find a church\"?*

I am at the end of my rope, it seems, in searching for a decent reformed church in this area. I have tried many Baptist churches, and the only two 'conservative' Presbyterian churches in town (all the rest are PCUSA with lesbian 'pastors'). I have found most of them to be, in my opinion, quite postmodern, compromising, and somewhat liberal. However, I know that my convictions about worship and what-not are very "different" compared to what the mainstream church goes by. But, I'm not going to live by popularity, only the Word of God alone and my convictions of what it says.

Anyhoo, that brings me to a grievous situation and much, much stress and depression over the last 5 months or so. I could join this SBC church I've been at since May when I moved here (it is 'reformed' baptist in most regards, and definitely more 'reformed' than the PCA churches here, which is quite strange...), but I don't have "believers only" baptistic convictions any more. Would I be in sin to join such a church?

Furthermore, I don't feel that I can join any of the PCA churches here, as I disagree strongly with their worship style and don't quite feel "at home" in them.

The only church I have been to in the last 5-6 months of depression that I felt "at home" in was an RPCNA church up in Indiana, but it is almost 2 hours away. I am hoping that they will be getting a bible study/church plant started in this area soon, as they are planning to do so, but what am I to do until then?

I just am being torn in so many directions b/c of my convictions and I feel there is literally NO church here for me that I feel "okay" to be a part of. I've almost lost my passion for going to church, and I despise that and repent of such feelings, but it is hard not to feel such a way, when every time I am in church I feel convicted or bothered/offended by things being done in the service.

In need of some advice, prayers, and counsel here.

Many thanks.



[Edited on 2-13-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## lwadkins

Tough thing when you can't find a church. We can relate, we travel 80mi round trip to church and back. We started with churches closer to home but they were social clubs not really intrested in God or his Word. God be with you in your search brother!

[Edited on 2-13-2005 by lwadkins]


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## Scott Bushey

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> I am at the end of my rope, it seems, in searching for a decent reformed church in this area. I have tried many Baptist churches, and the only two 'conservative' Presbyterian churches in town (all the rest are PCUSA with lesbian 'pastors'). I have found most of them to be, in my opinion, quite postmodern, compromising, and somewhat liberal. However, I know that my convictions about worship and what-not are very "different" compared to what the mainstream church goes by. But, I'm not going to live by popularity, only the Word of God alone and my convictions of what it says.
> 
> Anyhoo, that brings me to a grievous situation and much, much stress and depression over the last 5 months or so. I could join this SBC church I've been at since May when I moved here (it is 'reformed' baptist in most regards, and definitely more 'reformed' than the PCA churches here, which is quite strange...), but I don't have "believers only" baptistic convictions any more. Would I be in sin to join such a church?



If there is nothing better, I believe you don't have a choice. It would not be a sin.



> Furthermore, I don't feel that I can join any of the PCA churches here, as I disagree strongly with their worship style and don't quite feel "at home" in them.



There are PCA churches in your vicinity? You should attach to one of those (just like Matt and I are-working with what we got and help in the reformation) as they are a true covenant community; plus you have their government, which in my opinion is essential for proper functioning; better here than in the SBC example.

[Edited on 2-13-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## just_grace

Its a major prayer in my life to at the moment.

Everytime I go to the Reformed Church in Cauterets, its closed, why have a new church gathering place and be closed every Sunday with no telephone contact number posted?

[Edited on 2-13-2005 by just_grace]


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## ReformedWretch

It took my wife and I twelve years to find a good church. We must have attended 4-5 along the way.


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## Larry Hughes

Gabriel,



> but I don't have "believers only" baptistic convictions any more. Would I be in sin to join such a church?
> 
> Furthermore, I don't feel that I can join any of the PCA churches here, as I disagree strongly with their worship style and don't quite feel "at home" in them.



Brother I feel your pain and I'm not quoting Clinton. My wife and I visited a PCA in an area here in C. KY. & were quite excited about it, but the sermon was horrific. It was not only confusing and all over the place and nothing but a speech, it was very evident that he had not labored the text at all. Law & Gospel was all over the place, a little moralism on buying too many CD's (yea, you heard it right), "how much bible reading one needs to do to "stop" sinning. It was a mixed melange of nothing. I won't go into detail but I've been at a variety of not so good SB churches, non-calvinistic and at least the pastor, though it was a an arminian speech, was able to present it coherently. And Post-Modern, you got that right, but we looked past that and focused on the "sermon".

We are still looking but as light as it is in Louisville, its worse down here near Lexington. At least what I've found thus far...still looking.

I have a couple of good SBC that have a fresh calvinistic pastor from Southern and a few members going that way that I could serve at (you know how it is here in KY), one a very close brother serves at. I'm wrestling with going there because it would be a great opportunity to 'roll up my sleeves' and work, but when the issues get around to baptism I suppose I'd have to remove myself, I'd have to tell the pastor my position on it.

I saw your post and it gripped me because that is EXACTLY what we are going through! We still attend a strongly calvinistic SB just south of L-ville, but it is a 65 mile one way drive and with an 8 month old, one on the way in May and my wife as a Trauma nurse working 3rd shift every other weekend there is logistical issues.

Larry

[Edited on 2-13-2005 by Larry Hughes]


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## SolaScriptura

> I am at the end of my rope, it seems, in searching for a decent reformed church in this area. I have tried many Baptist churches, and the only two 'conservative' Presbyterian churches in town (all the rest are PCUSA with lesbian 'pastors').



That is not an accurate reflection of all the PCUSA churches in town. You shouldn't make such blanket statements. There a few very solid PCUSA churches in the area who just don't have the money to buy their property back and leave the denomination.



> I could join this SBC church I've been at since May when I moved here (it is 'reformed' baptist in most regards, and definitely more 'reformed' than the PCA churches here, which is quite strange...)



I'm sorry that you didn't like the worship service today at Redeemer. (Though I would like you to u2u me and tell me what you thought was "unreformed" about our worship service. Was it having a piano, cello and classical guitar? Or was it perhaps because we sang a psalm, a couple hymns and had a praise chorus? Or was it perhaps that our pastor called upon people to trust in Christ alone for their salvation?) However, calling Clifton Baptist Church "more reformed" than CPC or Redeemer is nonsensical. I spent my first month in Louisville at Clifton, so I know that while it is a very good baptist church, it is NOT reformed. Didn't you tell me today that your convictions have changed in the last semester or so? You've had how much exposure to Reformed worship services? I say this only to advise you to be a little slower to make such judgments... especially on a forum in which most of the members will take your words at face value.



> Furthermore, I don't feel that I can join any of the PCA churches here, as I disagree strongly with their worship style and don't quite feel "at home" in them.



This is understandable. Though I disagree with exclusive psalmidy, I can appreciate the frustration that it would bring. I do believe that there is an ARPC church in Louisville. You may want to check that church out. I do wonder why, given your preferences for worship style, that you would above say that you prefer Clifton to Redeemer or CPC... I happen to KNOW that Clifton is more contemporary than either of the PCA churches in town.

I sincerely think that you should consider the ARPC church. Please don't become a member at Clifton simply, or primarily, for the tuition discount you receive at Boyce for being a member of an SBC church. 
Have you considered transferring to IU to finish your BA - surely they would accept more of your credits than Boyce did - and that way you'd be in Bloomington. After all, if you are so offended by the worship in Louisville churches, why do you want to go to a school that believes, and teaches others to believe, things that you find so offensive? 

Just my 

Ben


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## WrittenFromUtopia

I'm not including Redeemer in my statements in this post. I enjoyed the service there.


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Also, what PCUSA churches are "good" in Louisville? I've checked out a lot of them online and am having trouble finding ones without rainbow colored something all over the place and women pastors. Have you seen that Lutheran church on Frankfort with a giant cross in the front "yard" of the church with a rainbow colored cloth draped over it? I almost got in a wreck when I saw it.

Btw, my main convictions about worship have to do with instrumentals and instrument usage (as a form of continuing in Jewish Temple worship), not exclusive psalmody. I love the Psalms and would prefer to sing them in a church I serve in, but don't have huge beefs with songs based on Scripture (as long as too much freedom isn't taken in them).

Becoming a member at Clifton wouldn't have anything to due with tuition breaks, but the good fellowship I've had there and the strong Biblical preaching and exegesis. I think me joining a Presbyterian church just because I feel more Presbyterian now than Baptist would be a wrong decision unless I really felt called to a particular church, which I just don't sense at this time (other than Clifton). I'd like to visit the ARPCA church here, but I haven't heard much good things about the church and it's emphasis on Reformed Theology (as in, they don't emphasize it at all). But, that's just what I've heard, so I'm not sure.

The "convictions" that have changed in my life most recently are about mainly covenantal issues, not worship. I've been exposed to "reformedish" worship services for about a year now. Clifton has changed a lot in many ways since I started going there last May. Some ways for the better and some for the worse. *shrug* I just don't know what to do about this all. I need to stay in the Word and continue to pray much about this decision. I don't want to take my decision lightly.

Boyce teaches me about theology, biblical languages, pastoral concerns, etc. Not worship. I don't have any classes there that focus on worship whatsoever in my degree plan (Biblical and Theological Studies), so I have no issues going there. However, I have considered just finishing my B.A. 'quicker' somewhere else. But, at the current time, I still believe I am called to go there. There is a great variety of people at that school with varying beliefs, me being more reformed than most doesn't disqualify me from going there, nor do I feel like I'm doing a bad thing by being there. I am preparing myself for both ministry and seminary.


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## SolaScriptura

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> I'm not including Redeemer in my statements in this post. I enjoyed the service there.



huh? Well.... ok!

But what other PCA church_es_ in the area are you referring to? 
I'm only familiar with _two_ PCA churches in Louisville - CPC and Redeemer. 
So when you posted this, lamenting the _two_ 'conservative' presbyterian churches in town... and in the same post in which you refer to PCA church_es_ (in the plural)... well... 

Anyway, If your post above (that I'm quoting from) is correct... then it looks like you've found a way out of your delimma! 

[Edited on 13-2-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## WrittenFromUtopia

What are some of the 'decent' PCUSA churches here? I'd like to check out their sites, if they have 'em. Btw, thanks for your counsel about college, I'm seriously considering just transferring all 120 or so of my credits to IU or UofL and getting my B.A. at least a year and a half sooner. I think that would be a better use of my time before Seminary.


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus

I'm in the same situation. We have two PCA churches within a 50 mile radius, the one I joined has a terrible pastor. The sermons are terribly dry, as I don't learn a thing, and the content sufficiency level ends at the level for a second grader. Yet a wonderful wonderful congregation and elders, many who have very prestigious resumes, including the campus RUF pastor, who is by far one of the best preachers i've ever heard! I don't know if I want to leave over the preaching. I've been a member of the church for a month and a half (which would be sorta humiliating to leave so early), and besides that I'm already attached to many of the people there. However, I get absolutely nothing out of the sermons, its as if they are in vain, and I do not sing the hymns because I only sing psalms. So in a sense its as if the worship is vain, and the preaching. The only thing not is the relationships and the prayer....


What does one do about this situation? Should the pastor be axed?


[Edited on 13-2-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih

I am in the same boat in a way. The only church's really within any distance of where I live are mostly pentacostals and seeker-sensitive 'gatherings'. The only reformed church except for an elusive Dutch Reformed (which I question if it even exists sometimes) is a Reformed Baptist which is a good two hours away. Otherwise there is nothing beter than some pentacostals... although the Baptist pentacostal one I go to in the morning is a little less pentacostal in some respects as the pastor is on the more traditional side but those under him are on the charistmatic/pentacostal leaning side.


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## Larry Hughes

Ben,

Any good PCA churches in the Frankfort - Lawrenceburg - Lexington area? We have yet to do an exhaustive search. If Louisville was an option for us Reedemer sounds great.

I'm just not that familiar with denominations per say. The one we happened to visit thus far was just not good.

Thanks,

Larry


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## Puritanhead

No complaints, I love my pastor.


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## BobVigneault

We, as a puritan community. really need to tackle this issue. We all carry a zeal for the house of the Lord though we disagree how that zeal should be manifested. However, at the local level most of us share a sentiment of 'contra ecclesia'.

Matthew, maybe this could be addressed in an upcoming book. Some chapter headings might be:

* How to make the best of a bad church.
* When is it time to leave a church.
* Church membership and marriage: how these covenants compare and contrast.
* How to evaluate a worship service.
* Separating good preaching from bad.
* How to prepare for worship.

This last one has been a weakness for me. Sometimes I go to church so ready to be offended that of course, I am. So now, before I go to church I meditate and read of the awesome attributes of God and the works of Christ. After a bit, I can't wait to go and worship and even a shoddy sermon or cheesy music isn't going to ruin my deep sense of awe at the worth of our Creator.

Remember, we go to church to ascribe to God HIS worth, not to measure the worth of His church which in spite of itself He still uses to propagate the good news and administer the sacraments. The church is a crooked stick that God still draws straight lines with.

Another thing we need to be aware of is on this board we help to spread a discontent for most local assemblies. It's not a bad thing to teach others an appreciation for proper worship but we are not offering enough answers on how we can respond (as a minority) to the discontent we are fostering. Arminians are a happy lot and hard to change. We need to take seriously are role as reformers and pray for cleverness that we can present the whole counsel of God without getting caught.

I don't like this technique we are encouraging of running from the fight.

Well now I'm starting to ramble and I really need to get to work. Let's come up with a puritan policy article on this topic. Blessings.


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## ReformedWretch

I like Bob's idea of a book or long paper on this subject!


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## blhowes

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> I like Bob's idea of a book or long paper on this subject!


I agree. 

In addition to the excellent chapters that Bob suggested, it might be interesting to have another one along the lines of something called "Historical Precident". I'd guess it wasn't an automatic thing for many of the puritans to just up and leave the catholic church, but I'd imagine it took considerable soul searching on their part to make the break. With all the volumes of things they wrote, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the literature speaks of the struggles and thought processes they went through before actually making the break.


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## pastorway

I understand that at times it can be difficult to find a solid, sound church. If so, find a not so solid not so sound church and dseek to reform it! 

Really. We make it so much harder than it has to be!

Maybe we should all move to China were we could only meet with a few other Christians in someones house for worship all the while risking jail, joblessness, torture, and death for assembling to worship. Maybe if worship COST us something we would quit whining and start praising. Maybe if it meant death we would lay SELF aside and get on with the business at hand - exalting God.

Maybe we should quit being so picky that we exclude ourselves from the Body. "You're not an eye! Well you're not a foot!" 

Or maybe we should go to worship God instead of being consumers and spectators......

*Luke 18*
9Also He spoke this parable to some who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and despised others: 10"Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, "God, I thank You that I am not like other men--extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I give tithes of all that I possess.' 13And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, "God, be merciful to me a sinner!' 14I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted." 

This humble man did not care _where_ he was, _who_ he was with, _who _was watching, or _what_ others thought. He feared God more than man an no one and nothing could come between him and His Savior.

Sometimes worship is uncomfortable. Sometimes we sacrifice personal preference for the sake of unity and fellowship. And all the time our focus should be on God and His Word - not on those around us.

Bad sermon? So what. Surely you can gain something from the Scripture even from a bad sermon if you look hard enough and quit judging the preacher. Beside that, God uses foolish things to confound the wise and if it is His Word in any way that os being proclaimed it has a promise that it will not return void but will ALWAYS accomplish the purpose for which God is sending it forth.

Oh that we were so hungry for the Word, so famished for just a taste that we could relish the fact that a man can stand a freely preach the Word of God to those who are listening. That we would pant after God instead of lusting after personal preferences and self pleasing priorities.

If finding a sound church means a long drive, then drive. If it means sacrifice, then so be it. A small price to pay to be obedient. But if the cause for "sacrifice" and discontent is personal wants that prevent fellowship then repent in dust and ashes and thank God that you are free to go to the church of your choice without fearing for your life.

Don't make the narrow way more narrow than it already is. Don't despise the bride of Christ just because your needs are not met. It isn't about us anyway. It is about HIM. 

Rant Off.

Phillip


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## brymaes

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> Oh that we were so hungry for the Word, so famished for just a taste that we could relish the fact that a man can stand a freely preach the Word of God to those who are listening.



Indeed


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## Robin

> _Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus_
> I'm in the same situation. The sermons are terribly dry, as I don't learn a thing, and the content sufficiency level ends at the level for a second grader.
> 
> What does one do about this situation?
> [Edited on 13-2-2005 by ABondSlaveofChristJesus]



Ask questions - lovingly confront the Pastor; prepare your questions (using Scriptures) and honestly have a heart to heart with him. Gulp...I know this sounds scary...but it is what is needed....how the pastor receives your concerns will tell you if you must leave... (you'll be being a Berean, after all.)

Robin


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