# Giving to Missions



## Romans922

What does the typical missionary need money for?

If I was going to give money to a missionary, I'd want to know that. 

I ask because it seems like *many *(not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go.


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## LawrenceU

Well, most missionaries I know (and I know a bunch both in developed and undeveloped areas) don't live 'well'. Frankly, most of them have a lifestyle that most American Christians would not live the way they do. Sure they may travel and see exotic locations, but that is part of their job. Add to that the dollar constantly fluctuating in reference to the money in their country and it is a real roller coaster. The same support level can be adequate, more than adequate, and then much less than adequate within the same year.


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## SolaScriptura

Romans922 said:


> What does the typical missionary need money for?
> 
> If I was going to give money to a missionary, I'd want to know that.
> 
> I ask because it seems like *many *(not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go.



Perhaps you don't intend it, but from your post you come across to me as someone who thinks that missionaries are supposed to be poor. I've never met a missionary who is living the "high life" (whatever that means - such a phrase is way to generic and subjective to be of use beyond painting a picture of someone who's living a luxurious life of ease.) But if a given missionary is blessed materially - just as are some pastors - then I say, "Praise God from whom all blessings flow!"

I do think that missionaries should be accountable for their funds, and to my knowledge every mission board has built in control measures to maintain some accountability - but in my opinion, when it comes to the "paycheck" portion of their funds they should be treated much like a pastor... in other words, as long as they aren't engaging in immoral activities, what they do with their paycheck should remain their business.


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## Romans922

Sorry if it came across bad. I'll try to be more specific.

This is what I see. Missionaries come to your church asking for support. That is not a problem. They show you what they are going to do or are doing in their mission field. They tell you what they are doing on the mission field. They ask for prayers, ask for support financially (all well and good). What does the church see? They see missionaries who need support prayerfully and financially. When a typical church decides to support they believe they are giving financially to the missionary (to support him, since he technically won't be earning a living by working, like a plumber, you have a boss and get paid. The church knows that their giving to this missionary is their means of support, to survive (much like a pastor)). The church also believes that they are giving financially to help the actual missionaries efforts of proclaiming the Gospel. If the missionary is apart of a missions organization, the church knows they are giving financially to support them in some way as well (to build churches or structures, to do administration work for the missionary(ies). But does the church believe that the missionary is going to buy nice cars, nice tv's, etc.? No. I don't think so. Maybe a good car to be able to get around in, if you need it. That might be the ignorance of the church, but they should know such things. I don't think most churches give money to missionaries for them to spend their time relaxing, etc. And (from where my question is coming from) i know of some missionaries who fall into this (an abuse obviously). But do the churches know this?

1) to clarify this was just me thinking out loud, not accusing anyone. 2) So basically what I am asking, I guess is, "is this common?" 3) I'm also asking the question, is it right for missionaries to continue raising support for their mission's efforts from various churches, when they are living quite adaquately (everyone in their family is comfortable) and when they know their raising supports basically adds more 'income' to the family but at the same time adds support to the mission's efforts? Wouldn't it be better to raise that support strictly for the mission's efforts, and be clear about what is going on when communicating these things to churches who are giving? What I see is missionaries (from my experience) ask for support and aren't clear as to what the support actually is going towards.

Thank you, I'm done rambling now.


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## LawrenceU

Most missionaries that I know work from a budget. Anything raised over that budget, and that is a rare occurrence, is put aside for taking care of unforeseen expenses, to take care of a weak dollar, etc.

Frankly, I think it is terrible practice to think that a missionary must be kept 'humble' by a shoestring budget. Unfortunately, many churches think this way; just like they think that way about their pastor.


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## PresbyDane




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## Romans922

It might be one thing to give a budget to a pastor who you can see and keep accountable (in some ways) with his financial spending.

It is another thing to give a budget to a missionary who is in antartica (or somewhere) and you never see but 1x a year.


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## LawrenceU

Simple, don't support a missionary you don't trust. 

If you support a missionary then go see him in his work. Get to know him. The disconnect between the local church and the missionary is a travesty in the modern church. Work to make it better. 

And, yes this is a hobby horse of mine.


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## Scottish Lass

Another option is to support missionaries through your denomination's agency. When our church gives to missions, it's distributed by our Outreach North America or World Witness as it's needed to various missionaries. We also have a few we support directly, but none of them are living beyond the average to my knowledge.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih

Living in a "hostile" environment puts many stresses on a person. This is only made worse if there are no home comforts that one is used to. I know these missionaries should be serving God and not abusing the money that the church gives them, but spending money on comforts can greatly increase performance. I know from my own travels, while never a missionary, I have seen some people try to live so cheaply they get caught up in the depression and fatalism of the area they are in. It is not easy to get by in these countries. Imagine the typical American with all the theological knowledge and book learning they require one day being in the US, and the next living a pitiful existence in the Congo. They require, in many ways, the comfort packs, the TV, the car, the books and that extra nice house on the outside of town. Just because this might be seen as materialistic, it does not mean they are living the high-life or having a better existence than they have at home.


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## Ivan

Scottish Lass said:


> Another option is to support missionaries through your denomination's agency. When our church gives to missions, it's distributed by our Outreach North America or World Witness as it's needed to various missionaries....



Same for the SBC. It's called the Cooperative Program that supports the International Mission Board and the North American Mission Board, as well our seminaries and some other denominational agencies.


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## SolaScriptura

LawrenceU said:


> Simple, don't support a missionary you don't trust.
> 
> If you support a missionary then go see him in his work. Get to know him. The disconnect between the local church and the missionary is a travesty in the modern church. Work to make it better.
> 
> And, yes this is a hobby horse of mine.



Exactly. 

I realize that churches are to be good stewards of their resources, but over the years I've seen various churches give a missionary some paltry amount - say $1000 a year - and yet act like that missionary owes them a detailed summary of every penny they get and how and where they spend it to ensure that they "really" need that $1000. If you don't trust the guy, don't give him your money.


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## jambo

I do not think it would be any business of your boss what you spent your salary on. I am expected to be a good steward of the resources God has given me and I would expect the missionary to do the same. Therefore I could not care what he spends it on, it is none of my business. I trust him to be wise. 

If he wants to buy a new TV then fine. I have a TV so I am not going to complain if a missionary buys a TV. 

The reality is that missionaries do not live the high life but struggle like the rest of us to make ends meet.

When you financially support a missionary you are helping him to feed himself and his family, to run a car and to keep him on the missionfield where he can proclaim the gospel, plant churches, engage in evangelism, train disciples etc and should be as free as much as possible from financial worry.


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## Rich Koster

There are many people who would call themselves "missionaries". My personal conviction is that I will only support Church planting missionaries who are doctrinally sound and accountable to a doctrinally sound home Church. If they are dedicated to planting, there is usually no fat in the budget to begin with. Luxuries become fresh fruit and a good cut of meat after all of the overhead is covered. I have recently withdrawn support from someone after getting a newsletter from them which contained a boast about how investing in hyping a crowd drew him many contacts. I told him I disapproved of his use of funds and methods and gave him details. After a lengthy conversation, in which he tried to convince me to see things his way, my decision remained the same.


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## Pergamum

Romans922 said:


> What does the typical missionary need money for?
> 
> If I was going to give money to a missionary, I'd want to know that.
> 
> I ask because it seems like *many *(not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go.






I have a masters, am studying for my doctorate. I have linguistic training from Wycliffe. I am trained as a psych counselor. 

These other "uneducated" folks here in the missions community that do not have Masters here have extensive linguistic training and almost everyone to a person has a least a bachelor's here. I turned down promotion to Major to exit the military to come here.

In the past 2 years I have had malaria 4 times, worms 3 times, ameoba 3 times, my son has had malaria twice, worms about 3 times, my daughter as well. My wife has not had malaria but got chickenguniya and I had to help her to the toilet for a week. I have been called infidel by some, spit on by others, threatened with arrows, threatened with machetes and bamboo poles and have had a LOT of my stuff stolen.

My "take home pay" is 1,800 per month, and the field I am with has urged me to guard this money as "personal" instead of letting it be spent for ministry projects, or medical needs for others, because this has been a real struggle. I raise a total of 3,500 per month. My last W-2 said that my yearly income was 28,450, and add to that some personal gifts that invariably get used for ministry. I have spent about 10-15 thousand on medical needs, caring for persecuted communities, schooling and training costs for evangelists and etc, have paid for at least a dozen medical needs that involved preserving life, health or limb. Flying my family home will cost about 2,500 USD per person. While I was on deputation I made a total of 11,000 USD and used food stamps.

I have been splitting time between the coast and the interior, so I guess I am living high on the hog because my stuff is scattered between two houses, but right now I have no water, electricity, or even a bed interior yet. I pay 70 USDper month for special internet on the coast so I can have silly arguments on the PB. I am building a big wooden house interior, but we will have Perin, a national evangelist living with us, too, (and have had sick kids also live with us, too, and we have fed and housed them all and paid for all medical expenses) and part of our house will be an enclosed school for our kids. This house will cost about 60,000 USD total...but only 24,000 of that is for building it, the rest being used to pay transportation because the nearest bush airstrip is 2 full day's walk away and my stuff must be carried, boated upriver in dugout canoes or I have to rent the ONLY mission heli in the whole province (an area the size of France) to shuttle my stuff and I am constantly broke because of this. Right now I am struggling to find the last 10,000 USD to pay for this house and all my colleagues have had their support drop because of the US recession, I guess it is more important for church families to get their kid a Wii then to keep their pledges to their missionaries and fully half of my colleagues are under-supported, most due to broken promises by churches.




I saw a sign from a soldier in Iraq that said, _"America is not at war, WE are at war...America is at the mall."_ The same applies to the church when it comes to missions. Local churches critique their missionaries and yet only 0.02 percent of all spending in American churches go towards frontier foreign missions. 



Do I live well by local standards, yes. Do I live well by American standards...no way. We try to hire house helpers when able, but when was the last time you sifted flour for worms and cooked without a microwave and prepared ALL your meals from scratch, and when interior washed your clothes in the river? Have you ever killed your own chickens? ALso, those missionaries who do hire househelp are responding to poor neighbors who are DAILY begging them for work. Many times a day sometimes.

Another luxury I have is that, rain or shine, I spend 50-100 USD per month to order books and dvds from Amazon.com to feed myself. I have no access to english language libraries, no tvs, and so this is not frivolous expenses. Dear friends at the PB here have also mailed me hundreds of hours of sermons and seminary classes on MP3 (thanks all).

If I kept all the money I gathered I would be doing well, but instead of tithing 10% I feel lucky to keep 10% of all that comes in. I saved up 300 dollars and yesterday spent it because one of my evangelists broke his arm and the bones are completely separate and he had no other choice but to let it heal wrong because all my national co-workers do not receive a wage and probably average living on a quarter a day (of course, I seem rich by their standards).


Here is a challenge to you: Come out here for 6 months and live like me. I will pay all your room and board in order to teach you a lesson.

-----Added 1/7/2009 at 07:50:06 EST-----



Rich Koster said:


> There are many people who would call themselves "missionaries". My personal conviction is that I will only support Church planting missionaries who are doctrinally sound and accountable to a doctrinally sound home Church. If they are dedicated to planting, there is usually no fat in the budget to begin with. Luxuries become fresh fruit and a good cut of meat after all of the overhead is covered. I have recently withdrawn support from someone after getting a newsletter from them which contained a boast about how investing in hyping a crowd drew him many contacts. I told him I disapproved of his use of funds and methods and gave him details. After a lengthy conversation, in which he tried to convince me to see things his way, my decision remained the same.



Blanket statements like yours are unwise. We need more of everybody, linguists, literacy workers, teachers, computer people, nurses, doctors.....

I would like to know how you went about cutting this missionary's support or if you gave him a chance to REALLY explain himself. 

If WE must be accountable to you, then YOU need also to answer some questions. Do you pray EVERY DAY for your missionaries. Do you REALLY sacrifice on their behalf? Accountability works both ways and local churches fail many more times over than the missionaries that I know. 

If there is a problem in world missions or a conflict with missionaries...it might not be them, it might be you.


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## LawrenceU

Pergy,
I have tears in my eyes. Thank you for your work, your service, your life.

This thread has been stuck in my craw all day.

I have a question for all the naysayers about missions giving: What do you do in your own community? Do you knock on doors and do more than invite people to 'come to church'? Do you go to the square and preach?

Another question: Would you go do what the missionaries that you, hopefully, support on what they make?

When my sister was in Croatia during the war (she is married to a Croat) some of the questions she would get about her spending were asinine. 

BTW, if you ever do have to decrease support of stop funding, pray long and hard about it. If you still must don't just chop the guy off at the knees. That is usually how it happens. Bang! no more support. Try getting that email, telegramme, message when you are in the middle of another country trying to keep it all together. Even your $50.00 is important. I can't tell you how many times my friends have lost major amounts of support in 50 and 100 dollar increments within a month.

Rant almost off.


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## he beholds

Romans922 said:


> What does the typical missionary need money for?
> 
> If I was going to give money to a missionary, I'd want to know that.
> 
> I ask because it seems like *many *(not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go.



Maybe you would feel better supporting missionaries that went through a board. There would be policies you could read and you'd know they are directly accountable to that board or group, like MTW for the PCA.

I think you can choose to give your money to anyone you want, and use 
any criteria that you want. And I think a church also can have standards. But once that money is given, it is theirs. I know that I don't worry about what my pastor is spending his money on. 

Pastors on here, do you give an account to your congregation for vacations or even new toys? Or do you consider the money yours once you receive it?


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## Pergamum

jambo said:


> I do not think it would be any business of your boss what you spent your salary on. I am expected to be a good steward of the resources God has given me and I would expect the missionary to do the same. Therefore I could not care what he spends it on, it is none of my business. I trust him to be wise.
> 
> If he wants to buy a new TV then fine. I have a TV so I am not going to complain if a missionary buys a TV.
> 
> The reality is that missionaries do not live the high life but struggle like the rest of us to make ends meet.
> 
> When you financially support a missionary you are helping him to feed himself and his family, to run a car and to keep him on the missionfield where he can proclaim the gospel, plant churches, engage in evangelism, train disciples etc and should be as free as much as possible from financial worry.





Thanks brother, for your wise post.

I would like to add something, however. 

Missionaries often do not merely finance their own lives. They are surrounded by needs and often spend much of their money helping those around them, financing evangelism themselves, and helping any local evangelists that work with them. 

I have a team of 20 evangelists and they have lost chuildren, almost died and have run out of food for the sake of spreading the Gospel. I have spent THOUSANDS on financing evangelism here and am selling my motorcycle this week to help get myself over a huge financial hump right now and I have but little savings.

It is not merely that churches are supporting me to live...they are also supporting me at a level where I can be impactful and I can work and initiate change here...and that takes money.

We do not scrimp when we send out frontline soldiers. If we recognize that there is a spiritual battle, why would be scimp sending out missionaries? More bullets means that we can take the fight to the enemy. And my supporting churches have done just that and I am involved in 15 different projects among 3 main areas and the Lord has, indeed, given fruit, despite my health being compromised and my finances never growing even though my generous churches supply me with many bulllets.

-----Added 1/7/2009 at 08:52:07 EST-----

Okay, okay...my rant is off. Now I will try to answer without anger:


Your question:

*What does the typical missionary need money for?*

ANSWER:

A missionary to asia will need about 2-3k per family member just to get to their place of service. One of my colleagues paid 12,000K just to get here.

They will need a house. On another island I paid for a lease on my house in cash = 2,4000 USd for one year.

They will need food and the other expenses of living = about 100 per month on the other island but about 300-400 per month here because of hospitality to evangelists and extra mouths living with me.

They will need transportation = on the other island I bought a Honda Supra for 1,200 USD and the team on the other island is keeping it for me and using it themselves for outreach while I am here. Here I bought a small dirt bike because the roads are bad for 1,600 USD, but am selling it to help pay for my house.

Missionaries will need money to help hire teachers or language helpers = I paid 300 per month several years ago for this.

Missionaries will need homeschooling curriculum unless they use a boarding school. I have spent 300 USd this year on books and am trying to use Sonlight because it seems the best curriculum (advise desired).

Do you want your missionary to read? We just had a thread about pastoral book allowance and I do not know a single missionary who gets one of these. I do have some gracious donors, however, and they regularly send me books....however, some send me books that they want me to read (i.e. pushing an agenda) rather than stuff I would want to read.

Also,
Missionaries will need LOTS of money for their work. 

Simple hospitality costs amount to several hundred per month. Printing materials and books can also be intothe thousnads per year, especialy when trying to reach a large people group.

In 3 weeks I will be spending about 500 dollars for transportation and to contract a large house because I have 6 american guests coming to see some of the local work,and I am hoping for some relief since I am swamped and cannot sponsor their growing needs much longer. After they leave I have a family of 4 coming to see the island and hopefully within 3 years will return and labor beside me. All this costs a lot of money.


I spent 600 USd 3 years ago to duplicate cds and cassettes for evangelistic outreach, that reached dozens of villages over several hundred kilometers. I spent several thousand to help finance putting key New Testament passages into local musical forms and into the local language (because people often refuse written materials but listen and memorize songs on the other island). This music project has no other words except Scripture and it is such a weird feeling to see people in full mslm dress to be singing the Gospel.

Also,
Missionaries need money for medical costs and insurance. I cannot get life insurance because I am in a high-risk country. Out of 12 families in my missions group more than HALF have had to be medically evacuated due to accidents, sickness or severe illness in their children. Malaria is like the common cold here.



So, it is unwise to judge how much a missionary makes. They have many more costs and challenges than you. Also, they might be working amongst a large group and helping to finances not just themselves but broad efforts. I work with a group of about 10 on the other island, 4 families among the M river valley here and a group of about 20 among the K tribe. These 34 main folks have many needs, not to mention other needs among the target peoples and those on the periphery. A missionary to Europe could easily need 70,000 per year, a missionary to Asia who does not work among a large group could easily needd 50,000 per year and a missionary involved in a large-scale churc-planting endeavor could easily use 100,000 USD in a year (and that, with good stewardship practices).

You say:
_*If I was going to give money to a missionary, I'd want to know that. *_

Yes, and most mission board belong to FICA or EFMA or whatever those orgs are and closely watch how you spend money. Imagine my dismay when I help someone out and cannot get a receipt and eat the cost myself from my personal account..which happens EVERY week. Imagine how I feel when local churches question every penny I spend - I want toys for my kids too (though Noah prefers lizards).

I send my W-2 to my home church every year and I believe in transparancy in all that I do, even though I feel that churches do not have the right to all the info they ask since they are partners and not lords over me.


You said:
_*I ask because it seems like many (not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go. *_

I think you are wrong. 


*About education:* The education of missionaries is usually sufficient for their work, especially if one works with a respected mission board. 

Almost everyone I know has a bachelors or a Masters, PLUS linguistic and inter-cultural training. It is a myth that missionaries are stupid. One researcher surveyed the literary output of 19th century missionaries and found that they published at a high rate and excelled in many fields of science. My friend has a fish named after him (he was the discoverer) and it is the missionaries who are preserving the language and culture of many many groups around the world and advancing literacy and medical health among local peoples.

I would argue that most missionaries have a much higher EQ than average and at least the same IQ. They have to make things happen and carve out their own job descriptions.


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## Okinawamama

Pergamum said:


> *Your post qualifies as the stupidest one I have ever read on the PB thus far.*
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a challenge to you: Come out here for 6 months and live like me. I will pay all your room and board in order to teach you a lesson.
> 
> -----Added 1/7/2009 at 07:50:06 EST-----



That's pretty harsh. I guess I should stick to the newbie board. Everyone is supposed to play "nice" over there.


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## Pergamum

Okinawamama said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> *Your post qualifies as the stupidest one I have ever read on the PB thus far.*
> 
> ...
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a challenge to you: Come out here for 6 months and live like me. I will pay all your room and board in order to teach you a lesson.
> 
> -----Added 1/7/2009 at 07:50:06 EST-----
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's pretty harsh. I guess I should stick to the newbie board. Everyone is supposed to play "nice" over there.
Click to expand...


Okay, duly noted - you're right. I erased it.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih

It just occurred to me, if ministers here in the west are paid an "average" wage or thereabouts, think about what missionaries should get paid when overseas? If I work for an international corporation, have a masters and relevant skills etc... and they need me to go to a developing country, especially if there was danger, then I would expect to be paid a fortune ($100,000+ a year). If you are a private contractor in Iraq it could be well over $30,000 a month! Now no one is saying missionaries should get this amount, but if this is the going wage for "danger pay" in these developing countries, then missionaries on the most part are well underpaid and under-served in this area.


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## Okinawamama

Pergamum said:


> Okay, duly noted - you're right. I erased it.




No worries. Besides, I'm pretty sure I may hold that title at some point in the future. But, you may award me that distinction privately.


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## Pergamum

Okinawamama said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, duly noted - you're right. I erased it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries. Besides, I'm pretty sure I may hold that title at some point in the future. But, you may award me that distinction privately.
Click to expand...


I'm looking forward to discovering what gets your goat (my goat is already gotten and I am trying to get it back right now). But, oh well...it is good to say, "You'r right, I'm wrong.." sometimes....but I prefer this to be a rare practice rather than semi-occasionally.


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## turmeric

Pergamum said:


> Okinawamama said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, duly noted - you're right. I erased it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No worries. Besides, I'm pretty sure I may hold that title at some point in the future. But, you may award me that distinction privately.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'm looking forward to discovering what gets your goat (my goat is already gotten and I am trying to get it back right now). But, oh well...it is good to say, "You'r right, I'm wrong.." sometimes....but I prefer this to be a rare practice rather than semi-occasionally.
Click to expand...

 
Pergy, you better hang onto that goat! You may need it to feed the local dignitaries! Aside from letting your goat get got, I agree with you.


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## nicnap

turmeric said:


> Aside from letting your goat get got, I agree with you.


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## Rich Koster

Yes, I really did talk with him for about 40 minutes. It seems he has bought into the "church growth movement" pragmatism. To me this is a warning sign. The event I mentioned in my previous post was hosting a no money on the table bingo event with several hundred dollars invested in prize giveaways and event expenses. This was done in the US. The problem on my end is that I don't believe we have to use bait to lure people in to get their contact info. We parted as friends, with no harsh words. I also told him if he was to change his course that I would support him, if able, in the future. Do I pray for them every day? No. I would be lying if I said I did. There are days in my life that get really demanding, as I'm sure yours, that I'm focused on one major event and get single issue focused in prayer. Is it a weakness on my part? Yes. Is it a lack of discipline? Yes. I do support meeting needs/sharing Christ in another plant in Germany which is also reaching into Romania. Our former congregation supported Wycliffe translators. Within a growing plant, all of those above mentioned staff can be added. However I am not a wealthy man and chose to support whom I believed would be a solid investment in God's Kingdom. When someone does have a God given love, they usually do invest in a person, family or region as a loving parent invests in his own children.


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## Pergamum

Rich Koster said:


> Yes, I really did talk with him for about 40 minutes. It seems he has bought into the "church growth movement" pragmatism. To me this is a warning sign. The event I mentioned in my previous post was hosting a no money on the table bingo event with several hundred dollars invested in prize giveaways and event expenses. This was done in the US. The problem on my end is that I don't believe we have to use bait to lure people in to get their contact info. We parted as friends, with no harsh words. I also told him if he was to change his course that I would support him, if able, in the future. Do I pray for them every day? No. I would be lying if I said I did. There are days in my life that get really demanding, as I'm sure yours, that I'm focused on one major event and get single issue focused in prayer. Is it a weakness on my part? Yes. Is it a lack of discipline? Yes. I do support meeting needs/sharing Christ in another plant in Germany which is also reaching into Romania. Our former congregation supported Wycliffe translators. Within a growing plant, all of those above mentioned staff can be added. However I am not a wealthy man and chose to support whom I believed would be a solid investment in God's Kingdom. When someone does have a God given love, they usually do invest in a person, family or region as a loving parent invests in his own children.



YIKES! Sorry if I was harsh with you. This, INDEED, sounds very bad. It sounds like you covered all your bases and did the right thing, sorry if I am on the defensive today.


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## Kim G

Pergamum said:


> Do you want your missionary to read? We just had a thread about pastoral book allowance and I do not know a single missionary who gets one of these. I do have some gracious donors, however, and they regularly send me books....however, some send me books that they want me to read (i.e. pushing an agenda) rather than stuff I would want to read.



Pergy, have you considered setting up an Amazon book Wishlist so that people know what you would want to read? That way no one would get you a book that you already owned or were not interested in. 

If you set one up, link it on the PB.


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## PresbyDane

I think that is a great idea


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## Romans922

Pergamum said:


> You said:
> _*I ask because it seems like many (not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go. *_
> 
> I think you are wrong.



Well, I think my experience my say otherwise. Maybe your experience shows I am still wrong. 

I came here to ask questions because of my ignorance on the subject. I came here because of experiences I have had (I have come here knowing of what some missionaries that I or churches have supported spend much of their time and money on things unneeded). When I say MUCH I mean much, not all, not a little (which is fine), but much. 

So please don't get upset with me because I ask questions (if indeed you were). Don't be harsh with me because I ask questions. Do I not have a right to ask? Or am I indeed stupid because I ask questions? Or am I indeed stupid because I ask questions based on my experience?


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## py3ak

I lived in Mexico for a year as pulpit supply when a church-planting missionary was unexpectedly stranded in the U.S. With irregular gifts as well as a monthly stipend, we made about $9,000 that year, and by teaching some English classes I made the money that I spent on getting around to carry out my different responsibilities. (To be clear, I think everyone who contributed to our support did more than we could have expected and in some cases more than they could really afford.) Fortunately we were able to live on the missionary's property and had no housing or utility costs. In a small way I can verify Pergamum's experience. We laid out not only for hospitality and to stock a book table at the church, but for medical needs, for miscellaneous emergencies, and for basic food supplies for several different families. In one sense we lived rather well: we were very happy and we ate out more than we ever have in the States; but we had no car and no insurance, and went into debt in order to meet the needs of people there. I don't think we felt poor: but we did come to the point where we were very glad to be paid back for the $20 food money we'd given someone. If it had not been for the generosity of some members of this board our lives would have been much harder when my wife's health became bad and we had to return to the States. We didn't have money for plane tickets or the ability to buy the healthy kind of bottled water. We are still recovering in a financial sense from that compound experience, and our absence from those people is a perpetual sorrow.
I am uneducated, no doubt, and we could have budgeted more wisely (or I could have avoided losing a couple of cell phones and wasting that money) and discouraged visitors from the U.S. coming to see us: so I would probably be open to a lot of your objections.
But there was no one else available; 15 people were added to the church during our year there; and I have never spent so much of what money I had on the needs of others as I did during that time.

On a related point, people do give so that missionaries can rest and relax. I have known thoughtful people give a week's hotel stay in a seaside city to a missionary family who had just lost an infant. When we were in Panama a generous contribution from a family enabled us to take a daytrip to see one of the most beautiful places in the world: I told them what we had done with their gift and they were very happy with the result.

I come from a lineage of missionaries, so I am familiar with the sort of generosity that consists in giving missionaries _used_ tea bags. A small point, perhaps, and many missionaries have developed such humility that they are grateful for even the crumbs that fall from the children's table; but it is not quite what one envisions when one thinks of the apostolic injunction to support missionaries in a manner worthy of God. I am glad to reflect that such a parsimonious attitude had no place among my helpers, but that they helped as much as they could and were glad for us to survive and to enjoy and to buy a book from time to time.


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## SolaScriptura

Romans922 said:


> I came here to ask questions because of my ignorance on the subject. I came here because of experiences I have had (I have come here knowing of what some missionaries that I or churches have supported spend much of their time and money on things unneeded). When I say MUCH I mean much, not all, not a little (which is fine), but much.
> 
> So please don't get upset with me because I ask questions (if indeed you were). Don't be harsh with me because I ask questions. Do I not have a right to ask? Or am I indeed stupid because I ask questions? Or am I indeed stupid because I ask questions based on my experience?



Andrew - 

Let me respond to your second paragraph first and your first paragraph second...

No, you're not "stupid" to ask. Of course you're not. No one thinks you're stupid or foolish. The terseness of some responses is not due to an impatience with the questions themselves, but with the attitude that seems to be reflected in those questions. As an example, look at your first paragraph...

Your comment about knowing some missionaries who spend "much" of their resources on "things unneeded" is a case in point. Basically, you come across like it is your business to decide what a missionary "needs." Further, you come across as if you believe that for a missionary to spend resources - be it time or money - on something you deem "unneeded," is wasteful to the point of him defrauding his donors. Granted, you attempt to take away the force of your apparent judgment about how he should be spending his money by qualifying it by referring specifically to "much" that is unneeded, but still... who are you to determine what is needed or not and how much of that unneeded stuff is acceptable? Talk about Big Brother! 

At the core seems to be the idea that the lifestyle of a missionary should be as uber-frugal as possible. While most Christians I know will deny that a missionary must BE poor, nonetheless, many of those same Christians will make remarks like these which imply that it IS a missionary's duty to LIVE as much of a pauper life-style as possible while still maintaining basic "acceptable" (whatever that means) standards. 

The attitude that a missionary somehow owes it to his donors to live as absolutely cheaply as possible so as to need as little as possible so as to be as small a burden on the donors as possible is pervasive, and it is conveyed in the judgment comments you make. And it is to that attitude that some are responding.

I for one think that a missionary is commissioned to do a job - as long as he does his job he has earned his paycheck and if he wants to use that paycheck for a 1080p LCD tv and a PS3... or whatever... that is his business and not yours. 

Of course there are some missionaries who are lazy and do not do the job to which they were called... but that is the individual person's problem and that type of person can be foudn in any walk of life. I refuse to accept that a governing attitude should be affixed to an entire group of people just because of lazy behavior on the part of a few. And neither should you. 

Here's my advice to you, a pastor in the PCA - only support MTW or MNA missionaries. And trust that the folks at MTW or MNA are doing their job. Hold them accountable to hold sponsored missionaries accountable. But it isn't your job to micromanage missionaries.


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## Romans922

I understand that, however. This isn't like any ole job (being a missionary or being a pastor). And when I say this, I do not disagree that a missionary/pastor should be free to spend the money how they choose. But for a pastor or for a missionary. It is not a normal job. It is not a business that earns money and then uses part of that money to pay its employees. This is the people of the Church giving to the Lord, through the church to support the work of the Lord/Church. If the person has been commissioned to fulfill their calling, much of their time should be focused on that calling. From my experience (which isn't vast at all), this has not been the case. Churches are giving money to a missions group and individuals who don't spend most of their time working on what they should be (what the purpose is of their going on the mission field). It is spent doing other things (vacationing if you will). Maybe (and from the response, it seems true) it is that it is only these few missionaries/groups that I am familiar with that have done this. I was just questioning if this was common. I think the Church should become more familiar with those who they support, but I think missionaries shouldn't say that what they are doing is solely mission work. They could communicate that it is much like a pastor or regular job. I think myself and the Church at large is ignorant of missions. It would be nice to understand a week or month in the life of a missionary. So the church has a better grasp of what actually takes place.


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## py3ak

Andrew, I think many missionaries would be delighted to host you for a little while (but please make sure you are able to pay your own way completely and don't add to a financial burden they may well not tell you of but which may already be hampering their effectiveness); of course, you would probably get royal treatment and so might form an elevated view of their spending, etc. But from my experience I don't think missionaries are trying to conceal what they are doing. It is something of a blow when you realize that you've worked on prayer letters and reports to try to make the situation clear and people don't have even an elementary understanding of what you're working through. I think most missionaries would be encouraged by someone who was willing to invest effort in understanding their situation.

I think it is precisely the informed pastor and congregants who are usually most willing to tell a missionary that a certain sum of money is to be used for recreation.


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## Pergamum

Romans922 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> You said:
> _*I ask because it seems like many (not all) missionaries are living the 'high life'. If they get more money from people, they 'live' better. What does everyone think of this? I'm concerned about how missionaries spend their money, as well as their typical lack of theological education when they go. *_
> 
> I think you are wrong.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, I think my experience my say otherwise. Maybe your experience shows I am still wrong.
> 
> I came here to ask questions because of my ignorance on the subject. I came here because of experiences I have had (I have come here knowing of what some missionaries that I or churches have supported spend much of their time and money on things unneeded). When I say MUCH I mean much, not all, not a little (which is fine), but much.
> 
> So please don't get upset with me because I ask questions (if indeed you were). Don't be harsh with me because I ask questions. Do I not have a right to ask? Or am I indeed stupid because I ask questions? Or am I indeed stupid because I ask questions based on my experience?
Click to expand...



Brother, forgive me if your post has raised my blood pressure, but please reread your posts and imagine how it might strike some who are struggling to make ends meet. 

It is like me posting a thread and asking, "Why is it that so many reformed pastors look so fat, pasty and lazy...." Of COURSE you are going to stir up rancor by your question.


I want to ask you very straightforward - who are you to determine what is needed and what is not needed? 

I see your suit and tie in your avatar and I certainly do not have a suit and a tie...should I tell you that you are wasting your money and that your suit and tie is unneeded?


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## Romans922

My suit and tie was a gift.

I never said that anyone was suited, I just want to be aware of various things that a missionary might spend money on (that a church decides to support).


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## Tripel

Romans922 said:


> I just want to be aware of various things that a missionary might spend money on (that a church decides to support).



Why do you need to know everything they spend their money on? I like some of the comments above about giving money to missionaries that you know and trust. And if you know and trust them, you shouldn't worry about how they spend the money. 

I have really enjoyed reading everything Pergamum has said, and I admire the lifestyle he has accepted for the good of Christ. But is he the standard? Are missionaries supposed to live in (by our standards) poverty? Many do, and the Lord blesses their ministry. But many do not live like that, and the Lord blesses their ministry as well.

Is it wrong for a missionary to buy a new TV? How about going out for a night on the town (if the location allows such)? I would be THRILLED to know that some of my money to missions is allowing somebody to not only have the funds to declare the good news of Christ, but to also enjoy one of the luxuries that I often take for granted.


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## Pergamum

Romans922 said:


> I understand that, however. This isn't like any ole job (being a missionary or being a pastor). And when I say this, I do not disagree that a missionary/pastor should be free to spend the money how they choose. But for a pastor or for a missionary. It is not a normal job. It is not a business that earns money and then uses part of that money to pay its employees. This is the people of the Church giving to the Lord, through the church to support the work of the Lord/Church. If the person has been commissioned to fulfill their calling, much of their time should be focused on that calling. From my experience (which isn't vast at all), this has not been the case. Churches are giving money to a missions group and individuals who don't spend most of their time working on what they should be (what the purpose is of their going on the mission field). It is spent doing other things (vacationing if you will). Maybe (and from the response, it seems true) it is that it is only these few missionaries/groups that I am familiar with that have done this. I was just questioning if this was common. I think the Church should become more familiar with those who they support, but I think missionaries shouldn't say that what they are doing is solely mission work. They could communicate that it is much like a pastor or regular job. I think myself and the Church at large is ignorant of missions. It would be nice to understand a week or month in the life of a missionary. So the church has a better grasp of what actually takes place.



Okay, I am trying to respond to your questions charitably. Forgive me if your whole post and your manner of asking questions bugs me a bit.


Yes, missionaries should be hard workers. Yes, they should be doing what they are supposed to be doing on the field.

But what is a missionary's job description? 

If they teach in an overseas seminary, this is easier to think about, but what if a missionary works in a tribal group or among a Mslm neighborhood. Much of your time will be spent in informal discussion and the missionary will make his own "work schedule." What if you end up spending 8 months trying to build a house and another 4 years struggling over the phonetics, phonology etc of an unwritten language and do little preaching?


I know Stateside pastors who spend 30 hours per week writing sermons. That is "low productivity" if you look at it from one perspective and some pastors appear only to work one day a week. 

So why the push for greater accountability for missionaries when the questions ought to begin at home? The answer is because of money I suspect.....few "gifts" ever are "no strings attached" and many folks try to control people through the use of gifts. And if a rural country church gives 50 dollars a month to a missionary, they then think that is 50 USd worth of collateral to push their own agendas on the missionary when the relationship is NOT a boss-servant relationship at all but a "partnership" for the Gospel. 

Most do not expect their pastors to be the poorest of their congregations, so why would you send the insulting gift of used tea bags for your missionaries...you should be sending the finest for those that have the least access to the "good things" in life.



Also, note that many working folks go home from an office and even pastors often keep "work hours"...however, the concept of "work hours" does not always exist for the missionary. We have had medical calls start at 5am and end at 1130 at night and often have had family breaks interrupted by emergencies.

If most missionaries were to chart and clock their time-usage versus time-wastage you would find that "work hours" vary greatly, but the missionary has trouble blocking his life into manageable boxes and that, on average, the missionary works much more than a 40 hour week, and often much more than a 60-hour week.... plus, cannot go home from work. 

My kid's Christmas toys were mostly used hand-me-downs from others. I did buy my son a used bike last year, do I need to ask permission from my supporting churches to do this?



When a church decides to support a missionary or a ministry, they decide to support the WHOLE thing, knowing that a missionary is a normal person with all the wants and needs of their compadres Stateside. Pledging support to help the whole ministry of a missionary and then mit-picking that missionary with minutae is tacky to say the least. 

In my more bitter moments I have a mental list of 2 or 3 from my Stateside churches that nit-pick me and I imagine, when frustrations get high, that I will go back and ask these 2or 3 why their kids each deserve a room to themselves and an ipod and 2 televisions per household at the very same time they are asking me why I am giving so much to the team on the other island when they should be self-supporting (even when I have visited 2 members of that team 2 years ago and they were literally own to their very last plateof rice...and they were serving some of that to a poor neighbor lady...who later came to faith).



Truth be told, I am rather spoiled. I am slowly building up a theological library in my house and have added about 50 volumes to my collection within the past 18 months. Also, the PB here has mailed me probably over 1,000 hours of sermons and lectures and I did buy myself an mp3 player so I can listen and walk and relax. 

I AM very very rich compared to my national co-workers, a truth that often makes me uncomfortable because I feel the difference in wealth between us acutely, and he who has the gold makes the rules, even in church relationships and I have to be careful that I do not use my wealth to unduly influence decisions among my team here. I am at the top of the social ladder here and GASP, we even hire folks to help my wife in the kitchen sometimes, partly because people beg for work. Also, I have enough free time between writing sermons, translating things, corresponding with churches and planning to engage the PB quite a bit, so I AM spoiled here and have much more than I deserve.


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## Skyler

Romans922 said:


> It might be one thing to give a budget to a pastor who you can see and keep accountable (in some ways) with his financial spending.
> 
> It is another thing to give a budget to a missionary who is in antartica (or somewhere) and you never see but 1x a year.



Agreed. Personally I'd never give money to a missionary in Antarctica.


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## Pergamum

Tripel said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I just want to be aware of various things that a missionary might spend money on (that a church decides to support).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Why do you need to know everything they spend their money on? I like some of the comments above about giving money to missionaries that you know and trust. And if you know and trust them, you shouldn't worry about how they spend the money.
> 
> I have really enjoyed reading everything Pergamum has said, and I admire the lifestyle he has accepted for the good of Christ. But is he the standard? Are missionaries supposed to live in (by our standards) poverty? Many do, and the Lord blesses their ministry. But many do not live like that, and the Lord blesses their ministry as well.
> 
> Is it wrong for a missionary to buy a new TV? How about going out for a night on the town (if the location allows such)? I would be THRILLED to know that some of my money to missions is allowing somebody to not only have the funds to declare the good news of Christ, but to also enjoy one of the luxuries that I often take for granted.
Click to expand...



My lifestyle might be harsher than the lives of many others, but these others are not doing wrong. Here are some examples of real live folks that I know. Note that urban workers need more:

*V *is a single female who lives in a large urban city and works among Asians and does work among female college students and teaches them the Bible. She needs twice as much as I do just to live and rent her apartment, and she chose to get a medium-sized apt and not the smallest one possible because she hosts many bible studies inside of this apartment. She gathers for herself as much as a middle-class working person the US would gather.

*The L family* lives in the better part of a large SE Asian city. Because they use their money well and keep their house clean, their house is the best on the block. They are richer than all of their neighbors though by American standards they are not, gathering in about 40,000 USD per year (which also pays their travel expenses). They sponsor several children to go to school. They own a nice big car and have a driver that helps navigate the awful roads in the country. This driver is a poor neighbor who was almost evicted when he could not find work. Prayer groups meet in their house 3 times per weekand this family supplies food and also much assisance to the poor. They use a poor local lady to help wash dishes.

*The _ family work *in Europe and live in a modest apartment on the par with most of their French counterparts. When extra money is factored in to pay for flights, this family makes about 60,000 USD per year to serve in France and they do work that most US pastors would do. They have had trouble for the past 3 years raising this suggested amount and thus live on about 50,000 USD per year and cannot exercise the hospitality that they would like to.

*The S family* works in a SE Asian country as a pilot and mechanic and they gather 80,000 USD per year, of which they live on 35,000-40,000 USd and the rest is used for ministry costs. They have 100,000 saved up in their ministry account, in the event that parts need to be bought etc. Because he is good with his hands, they live in the best house on the block, but he is retired and receives a pension and lives at a very high level in the States. He owns his own vehicle and his own bike and puts in 40-plus hours per week and also on weekends manages mission properties. His wife helps out for free at a local school for MKs. His family is subject to the same tropical illnesses that everyone else is. He sold his big house in the States and put that money into an IRA or something and refused to use that for mission money but is saving that for his kids. He has 200,000 saved back home. 

This family is the "richest" missions family that I know of...and they still live at a level very modest compared to their American counterparts..though they are rich by local standards, and also when compared to me.

*The D family* lives here with me. They gather the least amount of money of any of my colleagues and live on rice and simple meals every day. Their house is falling apart and he feels that he ought to live much like the people. He does own a laptop and is translating Scriptures and with Westen backing has spent 10s of thousands to publish materials into local languages. His father never even had an indoor toilet when he served here and yet they buy my son Noah toys sometimes when they come and Noah is glad when "Uncle __" comes by. He is poor himself, but the cost to support him would be expensive since he is involved much with local projects. [if anyone wants to support him, please tell me]




AN IMPORTANT NOTE ON FAULTY THINKING ABOUT "MISSION NEEDS."

Three times in the past 18 months I have had churches email me offering to support me and help me with any personal needs that I have.

But, I already gather my needed 3,5000 USd per month (of which 1,800 is my "take-home pay", to be used as I please) and due to the goodness of my supporters I have NEVER fallen below that.

Each time I have had to email them back and tell them that there are many needs here, but my personal "salary" is covered and so if they wanted to make up for any unmet needs that I have, I do not need any more support for myself, but I am supporting many projects that do have needs and I am struggling to help most of these very worthy ministries.

On two of those occasions, this ended any offer for support. 

On one occasion the church is helping me now fund my other projects among the F tribe and the K tribe. But these experiences have made me think, "You know, I shot myself in the foot maybe..." and I think some missionaries are forced into sounding always like they are in financial crisis because totally honest replies like mine have resulted in interested churches turning away when they hear that you are doing okay.. All my "needs" are met but I am supporting some strategic efforts and have others on my wish list that I could support if I had more resources.

I think this points to a faulty manner of thinking in that churches only want to help fill what is lacking and meet unmet needs. I think this leads many missionaries wrongly to operate by sending "EMERGENCY APPEAL" after emergency appeal for funds, which probably tire out donors. It also prohibits me from saving for future worthy projects and makes much of missionary enterprise into supporting that which is pressing when less pressing but more strategic endeavors would bless the work more.

It is almost as if churches want missionaries to have "just enough" but whooaaa...let's not give them too much extra.

-----Added 1/8/2009 at 07:21:36 EST-----



py3ak said:


> Andrew, I think many missionaries would be delighted to host you for a little while (but please make sure you are able to pay your own way completely and don't add to a financial burden they may well not tell you of but which may already be hampering their effectiveness); of course, you would probably get royal treatment and so might form an elevated view of their spending, etc. But from my experience I don't think missionaries are trying to conceal what they are doing. It is something of a blow when you realize that you've worked on prayer letters and reports to try to make the situation clear and people don't have even an elementary understanding of what you're working through. I think most missionaries would be encouraged by someone who was willing to invest effort in understanding their situation.
> 
> I think it is precisely the informed pastor and congregants who are usually most willing to tell a missionary that a certain sum of money is to be used for recreation.




Even more of a blow is when a missionary finds out that probably half of the prayer letter recipients cannot even make it through more than a page of your prayer letter because it is too long and the missionary is treated like so much spam mail....yet, these same supporters probably watch 10-30 hours o tv per week or read John Owen who has long been dead and his work accomplished.

Yes, I would love to host anyone out here. But I, too, worry that in my efforts to make things nice and comfy I will send off a wrong message that I live like this all the time. My last guests got terribly sick to the stomach despite eating at all the best places.


Most missionaries I know take pains to communicate but get frustrated because there is little response to them. 

I have heard of church splits and people leaving churches and I have not even found out until 18 months later..... 

Communication is a two-way street...unless churches take the faulty view that they are the bosses and missionaries REPORT to them rather than the two parties being in a mutually binding partnership where dialogue and discussion must be maintained. 

I have known some churches get very bossy and demanding with missionaries. Yet, my authority is my sending church, all the rest of you are not my bosses and our "Partners" with me. 

One church told me I had to ask permission before I did something here and I told them to drop my support altogether if they wanted to be my boss in that manner, because my home church had already approved my (not too major) actions.. thankfully, they responded by increasing my support (I guess they like their missionaries to have backbone, I don't know)... If 30 churches give 50 USD per month, the missionary must guard against having 30 bosses.


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## py3ak

Andrew, it's obvious you've touched on a sensitive topic, and I hope you don't feel too piled on. I understand that there are some who call themselves missionaries and who are supported by decent churches who think that godliness is a business, and the way to a life of leisure is to be a missionary in a Mexican border city (so you can _really_ live in Texas). But you are hearing something of the other side of the story, and the truth is that restricting a missionary to have to impose a number of petty economies is not the best way for them to become profitable ministers. It tears at your heart to have a person in a church need money urgently for a medical expense, or just for food, and have to say, "I'm sorry, I have 20 dollars to get to the end of the month: can your crying need wait another two weeks?" That feeling fuels some of the strong feeling you're getting in this thread. Here is a little bit of my wife's perspective.



> The first time I visited Mexico after we were married, an American lady living in a large house, her children attending an expensive satellite school, observed to me that the local people who were so poor could afford to get candy for their children at the corner stores, while she had to economize on that. I think that some of the misconceptions of missionaries living 'a high life' may result from the same sort of lopsided observations by people in the states.
> 
> I can add to R's post that we lived without heat at 10,000 feet, and gave up almost all that we had accumulated during years of marriage to get to Mexico, and gave up the rest of it when we had to suddenly leave. It was indeed the happiest time of our lives, and it will always be a sadness now that we are away from those people; and I would do it again without hesitation. But it destroyed what health I had going into the year (indeed I almost died), and has taken some time to recover. Missionaries like Pergy are giving up far more than can be measured in money. Just consider that malaria is a reality that has already altered his wife's health in a long term way. And that leeches are one of the minor inconveniences of 'roadtrips'.
> 
> As Ruben notes, we went out to eat more and went to a few movies while there. It is easy to look at this and think we were living the high life: I understand the criticism: we economize very strictly on those things here in the states. Meanwhile though, Ruben was carting our weeks' groceries in his backpack 2 hours round trip to the nearest store, literally hanging out of crowded busses in all weathers, with a hernia (we couldn't afford to pay for surgery). Some of this results because eating out/paying more for food becomes a way of life when you have no way to cart/store it, and when getting anywhere takes several hours. But we were also making do without a lot of comforts and even necessities (like clean water) that people have in the states; and sometimes cheap luxuries become more necessary to people who are coping with more hardship: people who rule them out of a budget that includes car, utilities, etc. look at the poor and say 'oh but they went to a movie and we never do that'. But they also don't have heat (or a/c); they also never make it through the bus station without giving away all the change in their pockets because of the suffering which is for many in the US only a tv reality: missionaries have to go on functioning in that kind of environment. I understand why you see the poorest people buying their children candy treats at little corner markets. When we came back and people kept asking me if I was comfortable, I was overcome with a sort of wonder that anyone could think it possible to be uncomfortable in heated cars where you could sit down, in heated bedrooms, in homes where you could sit in a hot bath, etc (our dear neighbor did install hot water in our bathtub for us just before we left). I tried to explain once or twice how irrelevant the question was after the past year but it was impossible to communicate, and it came across as an attempt to describe what I had suffered. I didn't feel that: the suffering was in exchanging Mexico for a heated car; it was simply impossible to think of anything in the states as 'uncomfortable' then (having re-adjusted of course, I don't feel that same wonder now). I didn't speak of these things while we were in Mexico much either. It sounds like complaining to people back home, who are giving sacrificially. Even now it might be perceived as complaining. I was very happy: these are simply facts. Missionaries put up with more in that way than they tell, and people at home often only see half of the equation. They have different compensations that are more significant to them: it is a different way of life. But it is not 'the high life'; and little luxuries that make it seem so to outsiders who economize on little luxuries, are often thrown in a void of basic comforts that people at home take for granted.
> 
> When my parents were missionaries in Seoul my mother was so relieved to think that her scrimping and saving would be over now that they were supported by the church. Rather though, we lived without meat and without heating the house in winter for months because of being so severely undersupported. My parents didn't write to complain: they simply adjusted, until someone thought to ask. Perhaps no one but one or two people ever knew; though perhaps many people knew later that we had a maid. It sounds ungrateful to mention the hard things, and they becomes less significant than they might be in another way of life.
> 
> I am sometimes tempted to sit and think 'how does so and so' (any given missionary of my acquaintance) spend their money and find something to criticise (in some, that they don't spend enough money on themselves). But I can do the same with my own finances, and I have to make allowance for my fallenness in judgment as well as all our fallenness as stewards, as well as for christian liberty in this area, and wind up simply being grateful not to have to judge another man's servant. I am so grateful that the works we give to are worth supporting; and that good men are carrying them on with mercy and integrity and love for their calling. I know firsthand that missionaries struggle with enough guilt about indulgences they allow themselves in the face of so much suffering as they encounter; and also that they need to be able to enjoy and live the life they are leading or they get quickly burned out physically and spiritually. How many of us at home would be able to justify to ourselves all our expenses if we felt like other people were judging us without much regard to our comfort and with only half the facts (I don't mean that anyone is doing this, only that it is a danger very easy to fall into with regard to missionaries). Is our money any less the Lord's? Any less from Him, or for Him? Do we have more of a right to live well because we suffer less?
> 
> I also have to add that among all the sacrificial gifts we personally received in Mexico, some of the most sacrificial were from other missionaries. It's not perhaps surprising: missionaries often give more of their income than most, and they understand what other missionaries don't feel it important enough to say, or know would be misunderstood, about basic hardships.


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## he beholds

Ruben, your wife's account of missionaries was simply beautiful. I would read any book written by her over and over. Thank you for sharing that.


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## Pergamum

One story stands out in my mind very vividly and is an illustration of how much we take for granted:


The first month I moved into our home on the other island we had a local poor lady help us with cooking, cleaning (extravagant?). We "over-paid" her the generous wage of 70 USD per month, which she desparately needed. Her husband just died and the daughter was fatherless in school (strong social stigmas exist in this place and her classmates teased her).

Her daughter had a birthday coming up.

We went to the best store in town and bought her a mid-range cake and a small thing of ice cream for this girl's birthdate. No gift, just this small cake and ice cream.

We gave it to our helper and she took it home without speaking.


A week later I heard the result:

Another neighbor reporting all of this stated that our helper walked home in silent disbelief. When she gave the cake to her daughter, the daughter fell on her knees and began to cry and kissed her mothers feet and said that this was the best birthday she had ever had. That they were without hope and now they had hope.


This was the first time, after a month, that the poverty of where we lived really hit me. I wept very hard and fell into a depression for the rest of that day and felt so guilty at all the luxuries that I had. I could not believe that I did not fullly realize just how deeply poverty effects things here and how less than 10 USD in cakes and b-day treats symbolized hope for this entire family.


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## py3ak

Thank you, Jessica. She is quite talented at writing.


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## Ivan

Very humbling to read these accounts.


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## BJClark

Andrew,





> It would be nice to understand a week or month in the life of a missionary. So the church has a better grasp of what actually takes place.



Why not take time to go on a Missions trip yourself? Go over personally and see what they do so that you will have a better understanding of what actually takes place...

Our church has group's that go to Mexico, Romania, Thailand, and various places in Asia every year to visit and assist the various missionaries--why not discuss this with the elders of your church and start asking if folks would be interested in going on such a trip for a week to visit one of the missionaries your church supports? Then they could start building those relationships..and who knows maybe open the hearts of those in your congregation to go out into the missions field themselves.


Perg, are you familiar with this group?

Third Millennium Ministries


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## Pergamum

I have 6 guest coming from 2 different groups within the next 2 weeks (half from 2 different churchs and three from Heartcry Missionary Society). Then, immediately following this I have a family of four coming to see this place and then go back home and raise support to return here long-term.

I would love more visitors.



Yes, Third Mill looks good.


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## kvanlaan

brother, I hear you. BUT I can understand Andrew's comments. I've seen absolutely *heinous* behaviour by missionaries that made me determined _never_ to give to missionaries I didn't know. China has more than its share of charlatans when it comes to this sort of thing, and many wouldn't even know what you were talking about when you said it in their presence. It only takes the actions of one or two Americans heading into the wild blue yonder as missionaries (but taking their American lifestyle with them) to sour a man for life on giving to what is a desperately needy cause.


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## Pergamum

Maybe we should start another thread about bad missionaries and bad missionary practice.


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## py3ak

I hope your visitors are all conscious of the financial strain American visitors can be to a missionary!


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## Pergamum

I saved up several hundred dollars extra in case they are not. I don't feel like I can charge them for room and board and so arranged that myself, because my hope is that a long-term relationship will form between these churches and the church-planting team that is on the other island 

(i.e. I pay now to make this a good trip and these groups from the US hopefully will feel called to help my friends later).

However, one of my evangelists here just broke his arm and it was at a 20-degree bend and he was just going to let it heal wrong and enter the interior and serve despite having no use of this arm...and so my savings partially disapeared again this week because we treated him and sent him to the best Dr. here on the coast (the ex rays showed the 2 broken bones not even touching...OUCH!). 

So, I need to learn how to save better. But HOW do you do that here?


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## py3ak

You have to set up an account that people can deposit money directly into which you can't touch except with someone else's agreement, and that someone else has to be a hard-nosed, arrogant jerk who will hold you to the rules you originally laid down no matter how much you kick and scream.


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## WarrenInSC

*Ouch! That hurt, but did teach a lesson*

Pergamum wrote:
"yet, these same supporters probably watch 10-30 hours o tv per week or read John Owen who has long been dead and his work accomplished."

Ouch, that hurt, but I will never (well, maybe never) treat a prayer/update/support letter from a missionary with brief regard again. Well said


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## BJClark

Pergamum;



> However, one of my evangelists here just broke his arm and it was at a 20-degree bend and he was just going to let it heal wrong and enter the interior and serve despite having no use of this arm...and so my savings partially disapeared again this week because we treated him and sent him to the best Dr. here on the coast (the ex rays showed the 2 broken bones not even touching...OUCH!).
> 
> So, I need to learn how to save better. But HOW do you do that here?



Could you accept the monies offered by others for personal expenses, even though it is beyond what your needs are, and use that to help with these type of things? 

God provides beyond your basic needs and you use those provisions to give back to others in need...it's still your money to be used as you desire to spend it..maybe even hire another carpenter?? And any monies you have beyond that, can go for medical expenses for your family or others if need be..or even to help cover the cost of those un-expected expenses that come up..instead of refusing them, say Thank you..and Praise God He's providing for those additional expenses--


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## Pergamum

Yes, I have accepted personal gifts and have used these for the needed funds. New carpenter is already hired, and house is being paid for and flights too. Thank God for the generosity of the Lord's People; despite an economic downturn or whatever is happening in America, new folks have even started to support the work here. I have been supplied with many bullets to shoot at the Enemy.


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