# Jesus' expectations of folks' understanding



## sotzo (Oct 17, 2007)

Several places in the Gospels show Jesus' apparent surprise at folks who are slow to understand his coming in terms of the OT revelation.

One example is Luke 24:
25He said to them, "How foolish you are, and how slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken! 26Did not the Christ have to suffer these things and then enter his glory?" 27And beginning with Moses and all the Prophets, he explained to them what was said in all the Scriptures concerning himself. 

(First off, this passage gives me the chills as it is incredible to imagine being taught about the whole point of history by the One to whom all history points!!)

Regarding the above and other such passages, Jesus indicates that the OT is perspicuous about what was to happen
to the Messiah. However, until after Christ's ascension, it appears that nobody "gets it", at least not from the OT. 

Is Jesus indeed indicating in these passages that the OT is perspicuous about what was to happen?
Was it the various sects of Judaism that were blunting this perspecuity so that Jesus' generation had a hard time understanding what was really to happen?


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## A5pointer (Oct 17, 2007)

Regarding the above and other such passages, Jesus indicates that the OT is *perspicuous* about what was to happen

We know that the messianic message is only perspicuous to those elected and "taught by God" or as Paul put it to those who have "the mind of Christ" by the Spirit. Sin has hidden the message that ought be perspicuous. Let us thank the Lord that we can see it as perspicuous.


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 17, 2007)

Joel,

I find this compatible with Romans 9-10. Romans 9 teaches that Israel's apostasy is not unexpected while Romans 10 teaches that Israel's condemnation is justified as the Gospel has gone out to all the earth but they have rejected what they heard.

Romans 10:14-17 is particularly poignant. Picture a man flying with Good News. How beautiful are his feet! He runs up to the gates to deliver the news and nobody believes him! The cosmic irony of this passage is amazing. Paul is saying that the Good News has gone out, the Jews should know it's Good, are without excuse for denying its goodness, and will be condemned for it.

Of course, Romans 11 teaches that some will yet believe...


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## sotzo (Oct 20, 2007)

This is probably a naive question because of my very superficial understanding of Gnosticism, but here goes...

What is the difference between Gnosticism's epsitemology and Christian epistemology with respect to understanding the message of the Gospel? When we say, the Spirit must work in order for us to understand, how is that different from the Gnostic's insistence on a "secret knowlege" for only those who are initiated?


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 20, 2007)

Wow! That was a pretty big shift in the train of the OP. Is there an underlying connection here that will make this easier to understand?

I'm not sure if you want to know about the original Gnostics or what is commonly referred to as "neo-Gnosticism" today. Here is a pretty quick summary of the heresy as developed in the early Christian era: gnosticism

neo-Gnosticism shares a chief characteristic with its ancient heresy in the idea that our knowledge of God or spiritual things is derived immediately. By that term I mean that it is without a medium - it is somehow just discerned or known. It is very common today, for instance, for Christians to hold to the heretical view that man is tri-partite consisting of body, soul, and spirit. The soul is the rational part of man while the spirit is the part that communicates with God. Chuck Smith is a famous proponent of this heretical view.

Charismatics are fond of viewing what we attain through Word and Sacrament and the propositional truths that we attain to as secondary (or even useless) compared to what we can gain by "letting go" or "forgetting about ourselves". Most "worship" music today is designed to cause the worshippers to chant phrases over and over so they can let go of their minds and, somehow, experience God more directly.

Growing up, I was in a Catholic Church in the charismatic movement. It was indistinguishable from Charismatic Churches I later attended. The super-spiritual are the people who have "graduated" to a higher plane of Christianity by being "baptized in the Spirit". They can speak in tongues and receive visions and prophecies directly from God. I remember thinking that being in God's perfect will extended to, moment by moment, "sensing" the Spirit and His will. Thus, if I was "in tune" with the Spirit I would be able to know that I was supposed to wear yellow socks and eat Cocoa Puffs for breakfast. Prayer time was dominated by listening to the Holy Spirit by just being quiet as it was in prayer or study of the Word. Some charismatics go so far as saying that the Word is dead while what we really need is the immediate impressions from the Holy Spirit.

This view is so widespread today that it is common to hear people say that "...I felt God leading me to do this..." or "...God placed it on my heart to tell you this...." Many Christians today can't tell the difference between their whims and being "Spirit led".

That all said, I would say the main difference between the Gnostic or neo-Gnostic heresies toward apprehending truth and the Christian approach is the difference between being led by our flesh on the one hand and being transformed by Word and Sacrament on the other. It is the very propositional Truths that neo-Gnosticism eschews as incidental to the important stuff that is the heart of the Gospel itself. When it comes right down to it, the Gospel is very plain but, for the neo-Gnostic, not very interesting. I always tell people that the problem with neo-Gnostics is that they always are worrying about God's perfect will but nearly all of them are so woefully ignorant of the Word of God that they aren't really interested in His will at all.


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## sotzo (Oct 20, 2007)

Thanks Rich. Very helpful...shift in OP was due to thinking through the Messianic secret as part of my overall study of Jesus' life...was going to start a new thread and thought it cohered enough with the OP to give it a shot here.

Again, thanks for the reponse. I am starting into Nash's book which deals with the Gospel in the context of Gnostic cults.


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