# Wal-Mart makes me so angry!



## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

I ran all over town(s) today store hopping trying to find a charger for my work phone. Every store I checked was out of chargers - even Radioshack.

So I finally settle for a car charger at Wal-Mart even though I need an office charger. I need to use my phone today and I can not find the right charger, so I ended up settling for what I really did not want.

Well that is not what frustrated me about Wal-Mart; although I am sure it primed my nerves.

I have one item in my hand and I go to check out, and out of all the checkout lines, all are closed except for six self-check-out lines and one "œ10 tem or less" line which is "œstrategically" wayyyy over at the very end of all the checkouts. At first I thought all lanes were closed except for the self-checkouts until I saw the hidden lane at the end. I would have had words with management if that were the case.

I refuse to use a self-checkout, so I go all the way over to the end with my one item and wait in the line behind the elderly. Meanwhile ample checkout lines remain empty while a line forms in the sole employee-manned line.

The only way I will use one of those self-checkout lines is if Wal-Mart paid me to do THEIR work. Those people who use the self-checkout better never complain about the lack of jobs in this country"¦.

Ok I feel better now (well maybe a little).


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## Pilgrim (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> I ran all over town(s) today store hopping trying to find a charger for my work phone. Every store I checked was out of chargers - even Radioshack.
> 
> So I finally settle for a car charger at Wal-Mart even though I need an office charger. I need to use my phone today and I can not find the right charger, so I ended up settling for what I really did not want.
> ...



So this whole rant is about the self-checkout? For what it's worth that looks like a Luddite argument to me.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



I have no problem with technology and embrace the advancement. The rant is over companies´ like Wal-Mart doing all but forcing people to use the self-checkout or in other words, forcing people to work for them without pay. Self-checkout is quick and convenient and would be more acceptable if the other lines were fully staffed as well.


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## ServantOfKing (Jul 24, 2006)

Capitalism at its finest. Actually corporate America at it's "finest." We still shop there don't we? And they're maximizing profit by not staffing every checkout lane. Why didn't I think of that?


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## Pilgrim (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> ...



If it wasn't for the self checkout, I probably wouldn't shop places like that at all, and rarely do anyway. It makes it much easier to get in and get out with just a few items. I don't follow the make me work without pay bit. For me, time is money, so if it enables me to get in and out much faster, so much the better.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

Plus I worked at Wal*Mart (electronics). The electronics departmen normally has an EMPTY check out line that people never think about. I check out with them more often than not.

As for cashiers, try hiring people for that position and then try KEEPING them. They don't get paid much, and it's very demanding. Customers have little to no patience yet they want everything done with no mistakes or else they flip out (not everyone is like this, but many are).

Ocasionally when my Wal*Mart was very busy some of us would be paged to cover registers for a while (an hour or so). We all hated when it was our turn because customers were in such a rush and often treated new or inexperienced people badly.

Give me self check out ANY DAY. It does eliminate those jobs, but those jobs are not in demand at all even by those struggeling to find work.


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## Arch2k (Jul 24, 2006)

Sounds pretty minuscule to me. People used to carry groceries to people's cars as well, yet you can't find those hardly at all anymore (especially at Wal-Mart).


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

Ray Kroc helped start it. It is genius; convince your customers to work FOR you.

But you are right Chris, it is so much more convenient and gives us more time (more time to read books I suppose).

Meanwhile people are out of work because we take our trays up at McDonalds and bag our own groceries and pump our own gas. 

Remember the nice old man who would bag your groceries AND take them to the car for you? He is jobless right now.

It is sad, but like Ashley said, we still shop at these places. I can´t afford to shop at full service restaurants and stores and they can´t afford to stay in business.

What set me over the edge this morning was Wal-Mart making nothing available but the self-checkout. They called less cashiers into work today banking on the fact that we will work for free.

I can always leave my tray on the table at McDonalds (yes I will be looked at as rude unfortunately) or make the clerk at the grocery store bag my groceries (and thus make his or her day that much harder "“ unfortunately) or even leave my shopping cart in the parking lot, but when it comes to purchasing my items, there is no alternative. Either I do it their way or leave without buying.

[Edited on 7-24-2006 by ChristopherPaul]


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## Puritanhead (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ServantOfKing_
> Capitalism at its finest. Actually corporate America at it's "finest." We still shop there don't we? And they're maximizing profit by not staffing every checkout lane. Why didn't I think of that?



Hey!!! "” don't knock capitalism and automation. Pretty soon. We will be able to replace Mexicans with _Robot Mexicans_. Though, by that time all the robots will speak Spanish and we will be expected to speak Spanish too. You will be assimilated!!! Resistance is futile!!!


(Too be honest, I admit these self-check-outs are very annoying. Trust me. Don't go through them unless you have like 4-5 items.)


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ServantOfKing_
> ...


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

No comment to the guy who WORKED at Wal*Mart and see this from the other angle?

NO ONE wants to bag your groceries and carry them to your car. If you can find more than 3-4 people willing to do this please let me know. If you do, then try finding them in the same area because if Wal*Mart did this you would need at least 75 people for all shifts doing this. You couldn't have one check out line providing this and others not or else you would find someone complaining about that.

Go work at Wal*Mart for two weeks and you will see the silliness in thse complaints, sorry but it's true.


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## CDM (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ServantOfKing_
> Capitalism at its finest. Actually corporate America at it's "finest." We still shop there don't we? And they're maximizing profit by not staffing every checkout lane. Why didn't I think of that?



Would people object to the Mom & Pop store looking to "maximize their profits"? Or is it also the Mom & Pop's respopnsibility to provide jobs for a country?

Socialism at its finest...

Or maybe this ensures their lower prices?  And no, I don't shop there. These self-checkout units cost more to buy and maintain than 2 cashiers per year. It is a convenience to me. I used one at Lowe's this last week and how thankful I was I didn't have to sit in a mile long line waiting for some stoner to finish finding the bar code on a post-hole digger.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 24, 2006)

Christopher, I'm sorry you feel so inconvenienced to have to carry your tray at McDonalds and have to leave the table to get refills. Life sure is hard  

It is certainly false that everyone who used to bag groceries, etc. is now out of work. It is indeed a Luddite argument that you are making, that technology causes job loss. But I suppose we could have cradle to grave socialism and guarantee everyone a job. (You haven't advocated that, but it certainly is something that those who make similar remarks advocate.) Or have an economy like Japan's where until recently (if it's not still that way) people were essentially guaranteed jobs until retirement age and it caused a stagnant economy lasting 10-15 years since companies found it difficult to adjust to conditions in the global economy. 

Ryan, I agree, the self checkout is a pain unless you only have one or two bags worth of items.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 24, 2006)

A true story about a self-checkout at a local Fred Meyers a month ago. I was the one trying to check out. I had two items, a bag of cat litter and an oil filter.

"Please scan the item and place it in the bag." (Electronic lady's voice to me after I'd done the preliminary button pushing telling it that I didn't have any coupons).

I try to put the big bag of cat litter into the bag. It won't fit. 

"Please place the item in the bag."

"It won't fit," I foolishly say.

"Please place the item in the bag."

I put the cat litter on the platform in front of the bag.

"Please scan the next item, and place it in the bag."

I scan the next item and place it on top of the cat litter, because there is no room for the bag.

"Please place the item in the bag."

"I can't put it into the bag because there is no room." I can't believe I've been reduced to arguing with an electronic voice.

"Please place the item in the bag."

OK, so I move the cat litter to the side so I can put the item in the bag.

"BEEP"¦..BEEP"¦.BEEP"¦.." (and then something like a car alarm goes off).

"Please stand back from the scanner. . . . Beep."

This repeats three times. A security officer comes up and asks what the problem is. I tell him the computer has gone bonkers. He tells me that it thinks that I am a shoplifter. I have to wait for the manager and head of security.

The beeping continues. I walk up to cancel the transaction. The security guy tells me not to touch anything. The manager comes, a bit gruff, wanting to know what I'm suspected of. I told him that the computer has accused me of improperly shifting cat litter, which, I am certain, is not a crime anywhere in the State of Washington.

Nobody could get the beeping to stop. I told the manager that I'd had enough of an adventure and was leaving. He didn't really want me to go, but couldn't figure out a reason to stop me. I was just following directions: "Please stand back from the scanner. . . ."


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## Puritanhead (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by victorbravo_
> A true story about a self-checkout at a local Fred Meyers a month ago. I was the one trying to check out. I had two items, a bag of cat litter and an oil filter.
> 
> "Please scan the item and place it in the bag." (Electronic lady's voice to me after I'd done the preliminary button pushing telling it that I didn't have any coupons).
> ...


See things would be so much easier Victor if we're branded like cattle with a barcode across our forehead. That's what they want you to believe.

It's obvious the inconveniences at self-check-outs in the future will just be a ploy to make people take the Mark of the Beast.


Wait until they replace the human Security Guard with a computer robot. You will have no grounds for appeal. Machines are always right!!! You think things are bad now! This all part of the end times!!!! The end is at hand, and the coming War with the Machines and SkyNet will take place. We must stop Cyberdyne System and the Pentagon from selling their surplus cyborgs to Wal-Mart, Harris-Teeter and Food Lion as security agents. We must Fight the Future!!! Trust No One Agent Mulder!!!


> *Wisdom from King of the Hill*
> HANK: Don't worry, Bill, I'm not going to let my credit and good name be done in by a d*** computer error.
> DALE: Computers don't make errors. What they do, they do on purpose. By now your name and particulars have been fed into every laptop, desktop, mainframe and supermarket scanner that collectively make up the global information conspiracy, otherwise known as The Beast.
> HANK: Dale, I'm having a problem with one videotape, not some high-tech boogyman.
> DALE: You just be careful. Computers have already beaten the Communists at chess. Next thing you know, they'll be beating humans.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> No comment to the guy who WORKED at Wal*Mart and see this from the other angle?
> 
> NO ONE wants to bag your groceries and carry them to your car. If you can find more than 3-4 people willing to do this please let me know. If you do, then try finding them in the same area because if Wal*Mart did this you would need at least 75 people for all shifts doing this. You couldn't have one check out line providing this and others not or else you would find someone complaining about that.
> ...



My mother, brother and sister all worked at the gigantic Wal-Mart in Chambersburg. I do not need to spend two weeks working at a Wal-Mart to understand anything. In fact my brother-in-law is a Wal-Mart veteran and is currently a high ranking officer at the Wal-Mart in Shippensburg.


It is silly because we are neck deep in it and cannot get out and this generation does not know that full service was standard at one time. Plus I never heard of a department store bagging items and taking them to your vehicle. That was what grocery stores did not that long ago.

I don't expect a Wal-Mart to take anything out to the car for me. But I do expect them to staff the checkouts. Today they had one staff member and the rest were self-checkout. Let people work the lanes and everything would have flowed just fine.

[Edited on 7-24-2006 by ChristopherPaul]


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## VictorBravo (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> You think things are bad now! This all part of the end times!!!!



 That's why I always carry my pocket EMF-burst detonator along with my Swiss Army Knife. Can't be too prepared in these perilous times.



> DALE: You just be careful. Computers have already beaten the Communists at chess. Next thing you know, they'll be beating humans.



I've been beaten by my computer more than once, but it was Outlook Express, not chess.


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## Ivan (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> Sounds pretty minuscule to me. People used to carry groceries to people's cars as well, yet you can't find those hardly at all anymore (especially at Wal-Mart).



You must have a bad Wal-Mart. At mine, if you request it, an associate will help with your purchase.


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## jaybird0827 (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> So this whole rant is about the self-checkout? For what it's worth that looks like a Luddite argument to me.



Chris,

 Thank you for teaching me something new today. "Luddite" - never heard of that one before. Found it on Wikipedia. Tucking it away in my brain.

_Jay_


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## jaybird0827 (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...
> The only way I will use one of those self-checkout lines is if Wal-Mart paid me to do THEIR work. Those people who use the self-checkout better never complain about the lack of jobs in this country"¦.
> 
> Ok I feel better now (well maybe a little).



After all the slow lines and dopey cashiers I've been stuck with, I'm grateful for self-checkout.

I have a special affinity for the slow-moving queue. I always end up in it. 

Back in the 80's I had a tee-shirt made that read "The other line moves faster." - on the back. Thought I should warn people.

_Jay_


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> Christopher, I'm sorry you feel so inconvenienced to have to carry your tray at McDonalds and have to leave the table to get refills. Life sure is hard



I am not inconvenienced. I simply make companies do their job and pay their hard working employees. It is not a matter of laziness on the customers part but a matter of encouraging more jobs to do what is necessary.



> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_It is certainly false that everyone who used to bag groceries, etc. is now out of work. It is indeed a Luddite argument that you are making, that technology causes job loss. But I suppose we could have cradle to grave socialism and guarantee everyone a job. (You haven't advocated that, but it certainly is something that those who make similar remarks advocate.) Or have an economy like Japan's where until recently (if it's not still that way) people were essentially guaranteed jobs until retirement age and it caused a stagnant economy lasting 10-15 years since companies found it difficult to adjust to conditions in the global economy.



Technology does cause job loss, but that is not my complaint. That is a necessity of technology increasing productivity. I guess you could take such an argument and complain that the barcode system and scanners cause checkout to be quicker thus less employees are needed. Personally I am thankful for the technological advances in my field - makes my job much easier and more productive! 

My case is that when companies make it a requirement for customers to work for them or else they do not get served. Technology helps, but companies´ get lazy and greedy. They utilize customer operations when they are not needed. But the customers are also at fault because they will keep going that extra mile in satisfying the companies desire to employee their customers precious time and energy at no fee.

Have I ever used a self-checkout? Yes I have. The checkouts are all full and I can get out quicker by scanning my own items so I did so. But today Wal-Mart purposely left the front checkouts staff-less giving the customer no option but to do the work themselves (unless they had 10 items or less). They make a premium for every item a hired staff does not have to scan. Have prices gone down since these self-checkouts were introduced? That is a serious question that I do not have an answer to.

If no one took their tray up at MacDonald´s (btw, you really shouldn´t eat their in the first place, but that is a separate discussion ), then perhaps they would have to pay someone to actually clean the seating area more often. How many times have you had to get a baby wipe and clean the table yourselves? It is because we put up with stuff like this that companies keep going a little further with what they require customers to do. Several years back, I remember Hardeez tried making everyone "œfix" their own sandwiches. It did not work, but it shows how far they will go.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



It would cost too much to actually train employees to know the system and their store better. Plus you get what you pay for.

We are far too easily satisfied...


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by houseparent_
> ...



You've never asked your brother inlaw about cashiers, how hard it is to staff the position with GOOD workers who will show up and work their full shift?

You seem to think there are masses of people waiting to be a cashier at wal*Mart frustrated that machines have taken their place. I am saying I highly suspect this is not the case.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Jul 24, 2006)

Sorry if someone has said this before but I really did expect the end of your story to be "and they told me to get out of the ten-items-or-less line and go to the self-service."


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> ...



Now were getting somewhere.

Do you feelWal*Mart cashiers should be paid more? If so, what would be a fair wage for such a position?


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



How "hard" it is to staff is not the customer´s problem. Increase their wages and all of a sudden there are more people showing up with applications. It is simple math. Like I said, you get what you pay for. My brother could tell you how easy it is to slack off at work. There are plenty of people and there could be even more available if they wanted.

Again, you guys keep insisting that I am anti-machine. That is an easy argument against me because it is not my argument. My frustration is due to the plethora of machines and no person to man them and the store requiring the customers to do the "man-ing" themselves.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

Ok, I tried to change direction. What do you think a fair wage would be for a Wal*Mart cashier?


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Ok, I tried to change direction. What do you think a fair wage would be for a Wal*Mart cashier?



I don't know.


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## ServantOfKing (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by houseparent_
> ...


Maybe enough for them to work 40 hours a week and be above the poverty line.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ServantOfKing_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Perhaps, that would certainly help. But ultimately any hypothetical salary is irrelevant.

Say Wal-Mart already pays them enough. Then why not staff them rather than force the customer to do their work for them? It comes down to greater prophets. Why give them more hours when the customer is happy to do all but put the blue vests on themselves?

It´s called good business.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ServantOfKing_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...


You know I have been having a tough time economically and live in a double-digit unemployment town. But I never believed in minimum wages, even when I was making minimum wage as a teenager. The truth is that less than one-fifth of people make minimum wage, and a great many make above that. Wal-Mart pays above minimum wage. Minimum wages cause unemployment. They are unnecessary and if they were dropped, I doubt too many people would be conscripted at the 1982 minimum wage rates no matter how many horror scenarios people conjure up.

The fair wage is what you're willing to work in a _free-market_.

Having established that, I do think opportunities are declining all the same because of Big Government, and its monsterous accumulation of debt and the perils of socialism and reckless public sector spending. We have to pay the piper sooner or later for unfunded trillion-dollar liabilities, three decades of giant budget deficits, etc. So, at the end of the day, what corporate America does is far less bothersome than what Uncle Sam does. 

So, don't bite the hand the feeds you... namely C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M-!!!

"Repeal the Minimum Wage" by Hanns Sennholz


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

I agree Ryan..

I am sure anyone else who has worked at Wal-Mart (as I have) above the general associate level, will tell you that you CANNOT find enough people to work cash register. Even people in desperate straights don't want the job. That sounds assinine, but it's true. The Wal*Mart I worked at would LOVE to have all their registers working (they don't even have any auto ones!) but they cannot find people willing to do the job. They pay pretty decent too. My wife and I were between jobs and needed something until the one we have now opened up. Based on our interviews, and our ability and willingness to work they gave us both over $9 an hour to start. 

Auto registers are not profit saving strategies, they are a MUST. Actually I know many people (including me) who very much prefer them.


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## py3ak (Jul 24, 2006)

Here is an interesting article about Wal-Mart:
http://www.mises.org/story/2219

In addition, the solution is simple. You want more service? Go to a higher-paying store. Wal-Mart can give us cheap prices because they save money on the production costs. Sure, they make a profit: if they didn't, they'd be stupid. It's not evil for companies to make a profit.
If we're too sheeple-ish to insist on a certain standard of service, that is probably because the government has bullied us into thinking that things can't be changed --or at least not with the help of almighty and all-caring Uncle Sam.
The K-Mart in Indiana that I used to go to put in self-checkouts --and a couple weeks later ripped them out. I was disappointed.


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## ServantOfKing (Jul 24, 2006)

[\quote]You know I have been having a tough time economically and live in a double-digit unemployment town. But I never believed in minimum wages, even when I was making minimum wage as a teenager. The truth is that less than one-fifth of people make minimum wage, and a great many make above that. Wal-Mart pays above minimum wage. Minimum wages cause unemployment. They are unnecessary and if they were dropped, I doubt too many people would be conscripted at the 1982 minimum wage rates no matter how many horror scenarios people conjure up.

The fair wage is what you're willing to work in a _free-market_.

Having established that, I do think opportunities are declining all the same because of Big Government, and its monsterous accumulation of debt and the perils of socialism and reckless public sector spending. We have to pay the piper sooner or later for unfunded trillion-dollar liabilities, three decades of giant budget deficits, etc. So, at the end of the day, what corporate America does is far less bothersome than what Uncle Sam does. 

So, don't bite the hand the feeds you... namely C-A-P-I-T-A-L-I-S-M-!!!

"Repeal the Minimum Wage" by Hanns Sennholz

 [/quote]

Oh...I definitely agree with you. I was being slightly honest and slightly sarcastic. America is socialist whether anyone admits it or not. And our government is entirely controlled by big business/ corporate America. Our federal legislative branch is entirely corrupted by lobbyists and special interests groups. Our economy is in this horrific state because if it.... I'm not against capitalism, but I'm against whatever is going on in America right now. 

Houseparent---How much above minimum wage was $9? I'm curious to know how much they might pay here.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 24, 2006)

I believe minimum wage here at that time was 5.25 an hour. Wal*Mart will base their pay on several issues including experience, and how you come across in the interview. If you seem like an intelligent, well spoken, hard working person they will start you at a higher salary than someone who seems confused, and desperate for anything.

Unfortunately the less educated, desperate people often get put on cash registers because no one else wants that job.


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## Dan.... (Jul 25, 2006)

We forgot to put in where Murphy's law fits into the picture:

*Only 2 of the 4 self check lanes are open.
*There are 3 people standing in line for the one.
*You say to yourself, "Well no one is standing behind this other guy, and he only has 3 items left; I'll stand behind him while he _quickly_ finishes up."
*Unknown to you, the 3 people waiting for the other self-check lane were also previously behind this gentleman standing in front of this self check machine.
*You patiently wait for this gentleman to finish his order:

[machine] Please place the item in the bag.
[gentleman] Hmmm?
[machine] Please place the item in the bag.
[gentleman] Oh...
[gentleman opens a new bag and places item in bag]
[machine] Please scan the next item and place it in the bag.
[gentleman slowly pulls the next item from his cart; turns it over several times to find the bar code, scans the item.
[machine] Please place item in the bag.
[gentle man places item in the bag.]
[gentleman notes that the bag is full.]
[gentleman takes the bag off of the table andf places it in the cart.]
[machine] Please return the last item to the bag
[gentleman] What?
[machine] Please return the last item to the bag
[gentleman] I didn't take anything out of the bag!!
[machine] Please return the last item to the bag
[Me] You have to leave the bag on the table; otherwise it won't allow you to scan the next item.
[machine] Please return the last item to the bag
[gentleman places the bag on the table]
[machine] Thank you.
[machine] Please scan the next item and place it in the bag.
[gentleman]There is no bar code label on my bag of tomotoes!
[machine] Please scan the next item and place it in the bag.
[gentleman scratches his head...]
[machine] Please scan the next item and place it in the bag.
[Me] Press the button that says produce.
[gentleman] Oh..., Thank you.
[Gentleman presses the produce button]
[machine] Please enter the four digit produce code.
[Gentleman scratches his head]
[machine] Please enter the four digit produce code.
[gentleman] What code?
[machine] Please enter the four digit produce code.
[Gentleman looks to the Self-check-out Cashier for assistance.]
[Self-Check-Out Cashier is assisting other customer.]
[Gentleman waits patiently.]
[Me waits impatiently!]
...
...
[Me thinking that my wait is fruitless, now steps over to the other check-out lane.]
[One man is finishing up his order in this self-check lane; and another is waiting.]
[First man finishes his order.]
[Second man turns out to be no better at self-check than the man in the other lane]
[Me looks at the other lane]
[machine] Thank you for shopping at .....
[Me thinks: Gentleman is finally done!!!]
[Three other customers have already lined up behind gentleman]
[Me]











[Edited on 7-25-2006 by Dan....]


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## Bladestunner316 (Jul 25, 2006)

Dont even get me started....

Im a Head Cashier at Home Depot. 

I have tons of cashier experience. The job may not seem that complicated but it is extremely stressful. Customers are VERY demanding especially in rich eastside areas. People complain over 10 cents!!!!!!!!! 

Our technology stink period it is not that up to date. Home Depot is very slow in updating anything. Not enough is done to retain people.

Anyone who knows what it is like to be a cashier has a better idea on how to treat a cashier when things dont go as you want. People or customers at least the ones in my store treat cashiers as second rate citizens ie scum. 

Blade


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## Bladestunner316 (Jul 25, 2006)

Our self check out is worthless especially when people dont listen to instructions. People ask you and you give an answer they either dont listen or ignore you. 

I had a lady almost break her credit card because she tried to shove it in the cash collector when there is a picture showing what the PIN PAD looks like right in front of her.


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## Herald (Jul 25, 2006)

> I have no problem with technology and embrace the advancement. The rant is over companies´ like Wal-Mart doing all but forcing people to use the self-checkout or in other words, forcing people to work for them without pay. Self-checkout is quick and convenient and would be more acceptable if the other lines were fully staffed as well.



As you continue in your one man moral crusade I will continue to use the self-checkout. I'll be in my car, sipping my Starbucks while you are waiting in line. There is a reason Wal Mart charges less for its merchandise than other stores. Self check-out is one such reason. Maybe you should be more intellectually honest with your peeve and shop someplace else. If other places don't have what you want then abstain...don't turn to Wal Mart.

Oh...and while we're at it, don't use directory assistance either. They did away with reaching an operator when the call is answered in order to save money. And don't use a bank or call any of tens of thousands of companies across the United States because they use automated phone services.

In short...me thinks you are making waaaay too much of this.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Bladestunner316_
> Our self check out is worthless especially when people dont listen to instructions. People ask you and you give an answer they either dont listen or ignore you.
> 
> I had a lady almost break her credit card because she tried to shove it in the cash collector when there is a picture showing what the PIN PAD looks like right in front of her.


Nathan, 

The cliche, "The Customer is Always Right," isn't true. Most people know that. It's a pragmatic gesture they tell people in Customer Service, so that they will treat customers nicely rather than get frustrated with them irrespective of dumb things they do. 

I once heard a girl in customer service tell a guy, "Don't be a stupid customer, sir." That's a no-no. I sorta got mad on his behalf, because she was a little smug and conceited. Besides, older gentlemen who have been there, and earned their stripes, and drive luxury sedans and make six-figures usually don't like to get lip from wet-behind-the-ears wage-earners who just crawled out of high school or college.

Generally, it's better to leave the customer satisfied even if it costs the store something at the end of the day, because at least they might come back another day even if the store ate a loss replacing something for them, or whatever.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Unfortunately the less educated, desperate people often get put on cash registers because no one else wants that job.


 Frankly, I wouldn't want to work at Wal-Mart either.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_Auto registers are not profit saving strategies, they are a MUST.



So prices have decreased since these were implemented?

How do you know they are not profit saving strategies? Of course they are. For one, like you said, if Wal-Mart can't staff the registers, then that is a huge problem. Solution? Have the customers staff the registers. It most certainly prophets the business. And like someone said making a prophet in business is not a sin. Denying that they save money is being naive.

If they can't find employees then what? They will suffer financially.



> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> 
> 
> > I have no problem with technology and embrace the advancement. The rant is over companies´ like Wal-Mart doing all but forcing people to use the self-checkout or in other words, forcing people to work for them without pay. Self-checkout is quick and convenient and would be more acceptable if the other lines were fully staffed as well.
> ...



"¦and while Americans complain that there are fewer jobs. This is not some personal vendetta I am on. Like I said I have used the self-checkout. I have taken my tray up, I have washed my table at restaurants, and pumped my own gas (although never in NJ "“ it is against the law for civilians to pump their own gas and we have more jobs because of it). My complaint is companies *forcing* customers to work for them as was the case yesterday. 



> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> There is a reason Wal Mart charges less for its merchandise than other stores. Self check-out is one such reason. Maybe you should be more intellectually honest with your peeve and shop someplace else. If other places don't have what you want then abstain...don't turn to Wal Mart.


I ask again, have prices been lowered since these self-checkouts were implemented? Wal-Mart had low prices before the self-checkout. Have they gone even lower these days? I already said, I can´t afford to shop anywhere else, but that is not the point. If push came to shove I could get someone to man a register if I really wanted to make an issue of it. For what it´s worth I do prefer Target. They have cleaner stores and more staff available. I hardly ever need to wait in a lone line while at a Target. But then again every store is different.



> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> Oh...and while we're at it, don't use directory assistance either. They did away with reaching an operator when the call is answered in order to save money. And don't use a bank or call any of tens of thousands of companies across the United States because they use automated phone services.



http://www.gethuman.com/

You can spend countless hours of your life listening for prompts and pushing buttons or saying key words "“ I'll be in my car, sipping my Starbucks while you are on the phone. 



> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> In short...me thinks you are making waaaay too much of this.



Fair enough. Perhaps some people don´t think enough about this sort of stuff. <shrug> My time is valuable. I don´t work for super corporations without pay. My time is much more valuable to me than to do pro bono work for billion dollar companies.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 25, 2006)

It's amusing how a simple rant over a common annoyance has gotten so much play. I think it says much about the how we respond to radical change. 

And the change is radical. Some of us have a hard time keeping up with it.

I sympathize with Dan and have had similar experiences, and I'm very sensitive to causing other customers delay. I admit that the first time I used the auto-scanner, I was much like the man he described. The difference was that, when I saw a line build up behind me, I cancelled the transaction and told the cashier I'd try to figure it all out at a less busy time.

Part of it stems from not being familiar with the lingo and symbolism. I used to be a techno-savvy geek. I built radios and computers and studied technology. But I have a real problem, sometimes, with understanding icons. Words are easy, but pictures about what to do can throw me. As Nathan pointed out, the screen shows you a picture of a credit card touch pad. But, in my experience, it doesn't tell you where this object is. Standing in front of a blinking screen with some voice repeating the same directions without explanation can disorient. There are all sorts of potential places to put a credit card. You feel pressure and the machine isn't helping. 

By the way, I'm not easily thrown. I have comfortably flown instrument approaches to landing in bad weather. But that is because I had time to learn what all the indicators were telling me. 

All in all, I have patience with the poor souls trying to get by when confronted with new things, because I've been there. I also am quite willing to express displeasure about a bad experience, but not to a cashier. They get way too much abuse. I go to the manager.


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## py3ak (Jul 25, 2006)

Is the purpose of a corporation to produce employment? I always thought that was why the government created new agencies....


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by py3ak_
> Is the purpose of a corporation to produce employment? I always thought that was why the government created new agencies....



The purpose of a corporation is to make a prophet.

As consumers we fail to see how the big picture is affected with the poor service we are willing to put up with.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by victorbravo_
> It's amusing how a simple rant over a common annoyance has gotten so much play. I think it says much about the how we respond to radical change.
> 
> And the change is radical. Some of us have a hard time keeping up with it.
> ...



This part of the discussion is a side topic to my frustration with Wal-Mart. New things are a way of life and to live in this world all of us must be responsible for making these adjustments. Progress is not an evil (I am not suggesting anyone here is proposing this). Many complained when the horseless carriage was introduced. They complained when the telephone became popular, computers, fax machines, etc. All the complaining was a waste of energy that could have been spent towards getting familiar with the new technologies.

I like the quote: Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those who are doing it.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> "¦and while Americans complain that there are fewer jobs. This is not some personal vendetta I am on. Like I said I have used the self-checkout. I have taken my tray up, I have washed my table at restaurants, and pumped my own gas (although never in NJ "“ it is against the law for civilians to pump their own gas and we have more jobs because of it). My complaint is companies *forcing* customers to work for them as was the case yesterday.



I was going to bring up Oregon and other states that make it illegal for the consumer to pump gas but you've already made my point for me.


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## py3ak (Jul 25, 2006)

I think it's insane to make it illegal for the consumer to pump gas. Where do they get the authority to make that sort of asinine law?

If the purpose of a corporation is to make a profit, then why would we complain when they take steps to do that? If it inconveniences us, let them know; if they don't change, shop elsewhere.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 25, 2006)

Okay, our experience with Wally World (hubby has worked there and I have tried to get a job there before)...

1) They don't let most people work 40hrs...they don't want to pay benefits...cheaper to hire two workers than to pay one for full time.

2) In some areas you can't get hired unless you are already on the welfare roles...so those of us that were trying to get a job to AVOID welfare, couldn't.

3) It is difficult to get cashiers, especially ones that are capable of running a register.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by py3ak_
> ...



I think you mean _profit_.

Making a _prophet_ is the purpose of the Church of the Later-Day Saints.

Don't worry... I mix up homonymns all the time. My brain locks up.


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## Anton Bruckner (Jul 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> Okay, our experience with Wally World (hubby has worked there and I have tried to get a job there before)...
> 
> 1) They don't let most people work 40hrs...they don't want to pay benefits...cheaper to hire two workers than to pay one for full time.
> ...


corporate political correctness. you need to join a minority group or a union


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## Ivan (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> Okay, our experience with Wally World (hubby has worked there and I have tried to get a job there before)...
> 
> 1) They don't let most people work 40hrs...they don't want to pay benefits...cheaper to hire two workers than to pay one for full time.
> ...



I can only speak of my experience at my Wal-Mart....

1. At my Wal-Mart, _most_ associates are full-time with benefits, including me. 

2. Never heard of such a thing. If there are any working at my Wal-Mart, they are few and far between. 

3. It really isn't that difficult to run a register. Perhaps you meant dealing with irate customers. That is challenging!

I applied at three differenct Wal-Marts and got called by two and both wanted to hire me. I chose the closer one. I have went from an hourly associate to a Support Manager in less than a year and a half and I'm suppose to go into the assistant manager program as soon as it opens up again.

My experience with Wal-Mart has been a positive one. However, there are problems, almost all dealing with either customers or associates. Wal-Mart isn't perfect by any means whatsoever. Still, I'd shop there. 

What did your husband do at Wal-Mart?


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> ...



These were pretty much what I experienced at my local Wal*Mart as well.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> ...



Do you have the Lord's Day off?


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## Average Joey (Jul 26, 2006)

My experience at Wal-Mart.

The pay is good for me and the wife.I have been there for 6 years and always have gotten a full fourty hours.Good cashiers are hard to come by.They either quit very soon after hired or are fired.It is expensive for Wal-Mart to hire new people.It costs anywhere from 1500-2000 for each new hire.Drug tests,paper work,etc.My only main complaint is the health insurance.I`m not saying it is bad.It is just not as good as it should be.Look at Fed-EX.

Customers are either:

Stupid!
Mean!
Impatient!
Or on rare occasions nice.
The nice ones are ones who have actually worked retail before.The rest complain and truely have no idea what they are talking about.They believe retail should be some sort of utopia.Where 1,000 employees are running around helping customers at every turn of the corner.We go through stages of being so short handed because of the employees who quit and/or fired.They hire new ones and they quit soon after because they realize they ACTUALLY have to do some work and they are to good for that.I enjoy my job for the most part.Mainly the pay of course because Wal-Mart has no top out pay.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 26, 2006)

In the St L area there are more ppl than there are jobs and ALOT of ppl on the welfare roles. The application for *W included questions about "are you on assistance", etc. They even had posted that they had an agreement between them and the welfare department. I was definately qualified to be hired...I know customer service, had plenty of experience at a cash register, and my previous employers were all very happy with me. The only reason I could see I didn't get hired was due to not being on welfare.

On working a register, you are correct, it isn't difficult...for those with any mental capacity. You should have seen the ppl that our local *W had been putting at the registers...I wanted to scream, one girl in particular you could tell should not have been there...she literally had no clue (and she was NOT new) and could have cared less. I avoided her lane like the plague. I truely believe a couple of these ppl had some learning disability that kept them from comprehending how to do their job. 

BTW, this *W did staff ALL their lanes.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 26, 2006)

For what it's worth, a good way to make a cashier's day is to think of them during the holidays by purchasing a pack of pens and giving it to them as a gift. (How many times have we seen them missing a pen?)


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## Ivan (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Ivan_
> ...



Yes, I have the same days off each week.


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## Ivan (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> For what it's worth, a good way to make a cashier's day is to think of them during the holidays by purchasing a pack of pens and giving it to them as a gift. (How many times have we seen them missing a pen?)



....BUT, at Wal-Mart an associate can not accept gifts, tips, etc. from customers. An associate can be fired if they do accept them.


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## Average Joey (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> For what it's worth, a good way to make a cashier's day is to think of them during the holidays by purchasing a pack of pens and giving it to them as a gift. (How many times have we seen them missing a pen?)



If they are busy they will call all sales floor associates to the front to cashier and most likely they are not carrying a pen.Especially if they are men.


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## Average Joey (Jul 26, 2006)

You must all keep in mind that Wal-Mart is a lot busier of a store than everyone else and it makes problems all the worse.The high volume of merchandise coming in and flying off the shelves is mind boggling.We average 3 trailers(a little over 3,000 pieces/boxes) of general merchandise a night at our store alone and about 2,000 pieces in grocery a night.Go to another store on their worst nights and they don`t even get half as much.


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## Average Joey (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> ...



I don`t get the day off.To many people already have off that day.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 26, 2006)

Yep, hubby used to talk about how bad the straightening up could be (back before it was a 24hr store).

I usually ask the cashier how they are doing or find a way to make them smile. I've been in their shoes, I know how to get a crabby customer to break down and either tell me their issue or laugh, so if I can do that with a customer then I can do it right back to a cashier as a customer...LOL it's fun to to make someone smile!


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 26, 2006)

Poor Wal-Mart. Hey, I have an idea! Lets all work for them for free, so they can make it through these rough times 

As I said, much of my family has or still is employed by Wal-Mart. Just like other employees of different companies, they have "œbad days" especially when they are understaffed. I have no qualm with the employees. I do not deny that many work hard for their employer. I just cannot give sympathy to a corporation for not being able to staff registers and thus implying that the customers should give them their time and effort at no cost.

It is a brilliant business move just as long as people will expect so little from those they give their money to.

I have bad days at work. At times we are understaffed and overloaded. But I do not say poor company, why doesn´t the client help us provide a service to him until we find more people.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 26, 2006)

I can honestly say that I have NEVER used a self-checkout...don't believe in them. I like REAL customer service...ppl. I don't want to end up in one of the aforementioned situations. Nope, not me.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> I can honestly say that I have NEVER used a self-checkout...don't believe in them. I like REAL customer service...ppl. I don't want to end up in one of the aforementioned situations. Nope, not me.



I certainly believe in them (i.e. their existence  ). I do use them when I am in a hurry and/or the registers are all full (often the case at grocery stores). I don´t really care so much if I talk to a machine or a real person when it comes to check out. But I do dread the thought of the day when register workers are a thing of the past and it is expected that all customers must do the companies a favor by scanning and totaling their own items. It has gotten this bad with fast food places with cleaning tables and we accept this as ok. Yes it is a good business strategy but I expect more from people than to just be naÃ¯ve as to who controls our time and energy. 

It is a snowball effect. We lower our expectations and give a little and after a while of allowing such poor service, such service become commonplace and expected to the point where we don´t even think of companies doing ALL the work at their own expense. That would be rude.

Now I am just repeating myself 

I predict a day when we will walk into a Wal-Mart full of boxes in which we have to dig for what we came for and register it ourselves. Then we will be sharing stories of how hard the guys have it who have to unload those boxes.


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## Ivan (Jul 26, 2006)

Frankly, Christopher, I agree with you and I DON'T use self checkouts. Often I shop after work. I refuse to go to the self checkouts because I've been working all night and it's time someone wait on me! 

Working third shift at Wal-Mart can only be described as a frenzy! Some associaters work harder than others, but I'd say the least hard working associate on third shift does much more work than any associate on any other shift. There are few exceptions, but not many.

However, I've said to others, I'm not "married" to Wal-Mart. When the Lord opens a door for me I'll be gone.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Average Joey_
> They believe retail should be some sort of utopia. Where 1,000 employees are running around helping customers at every turn of the corner.


Actually, I just think people in retail should be responsive to questions and helpful, and I have ran into my share of inconsiderate employees with a _don't bother me_ attitude, and a lackluster, _I don't know, I just work here_ mentality to a reasonable inquiry. I know the customer isn't always right, but it doesn't mean people in customer service should be excused from common courtesy and patience. Most employees are seldom bombarded by more than a handful of people a day. They should just integrate that with their other responsibilities like stocking and cashiering and take it in stride.

Christians in the employment of anyone should focus on servant leadership, as their modus operandi in their day-to-day interactions with both customers, clients, as well as their employer.


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## Gregg (Jul 27, 2006)

I like W/Mart and am greatful to have 2 within a reasonable driving distance. I'm somewhat from the old school and don't use credit cards so I don't think I'd like to use self/checkout lines.

You can tell our soceity is getting soft when people complain about stores that provide decent merchandice at fair prices. One wonders what they will do in situations of real tribulation?


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## Pilgrim (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Gregg_
> I like W/Mart and am greatful to have 2 within a reasonable driving distance. I'm somewhat from the old school and don't use credit cards so I don't think I'd like to use self/checkout lines.
> 
> You can tell our soceity is getting soft when people complain about stores that provide decent merchandice at fair prices. One wonders what they will do in situations of real tribulation?



You can actually use cash in the self checkout.


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## bradofshaw (Jul 27, 2006)

I went to buy gas the other day, and I had to pump the gas myself. How dare Exxon expect me to work for my own gas. In fact, I'd rather pay the extra 5 cents a gallon for the full service. What is this world coming to? 

In fact, the other day I called a freind of mine, and I didn't get the switchboard operator. It just went straight to his phone. How dare they do away with the phone operator's job and use electronic routers to connect my phone calls. Somewhere there are legions of unemployed switchboard operators roaming the streets homeless. 

Why, I passed a homeless guy on the street the other day, and he was telling me of his plight. He had been employed as a milk man. Apparently, nobody wanted to have their milk delivered to their door anymore, so he went out of business. His horse was also unemployed and looking rather lean. Nobody wants to hire a horse any more when they could drive a truck...

And don't get me started about that cotton gin...


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 27, 2006)

LOL! I actually despise automated customer service on the phone...unless I am intentionally using the automated "check your account" dealy.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bradofshaw_
> 
> 
> I went to buy gas the other day, and I had to pump the gas myself. How dare Exxon expect me to work for my own gas. In fact, I'd rather pay the extra 5 cents a gallon for the full service. What is this world coming to?
> ...



I'm still mad that my great grandfather's blackshop went out of business with the eclipse of the horse and buggy days.


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## Arch2k (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Gregg_
> You can tell our soceity is getting soft when people complain about stores that provide decent merchandice at fair prices. One wonders what they will do in situations of real tribulation?





The only arguments I am seeing are 1)"I don't like self check outs" or 2)"they make me work." Boo hoo. 

In regards to number 1), well...opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one. 

In regards to number 2), if we are this lazy, maybe we deserve to be over-run by illegal immigrants.

If I am missing a REAL argument against self-checkouts then by all means please direct my attention to it.

If you don't like places with self-checkouts, then you don't have to shop at places that have them, but don't complain when you're paying more for something.

If this is the one thing we have to complain about in life, then I am afraid that we have it way to easy.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Gregg_
> ...



Jeff, you missed the substantive and only significant argument, the one presented by Ryan: It's a plot to acclimate us to being ruled by machines. 

As to all of your other points, I agree.  But I'm very worried that the threat is being ignored. 

[Edited on 7-27-2006 by victorbravo]


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by bradofshaw_
> 
> 
> I went to buy gas the other day, and I had to pump the gas myself. How dare Exxon expect me to work for my own gas. In fact, I'd rather pay the extra 5 cents a gallon for the full service. What is this world coming to?
> ...



I can tell you didn't read the rest of the thread before posting.


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## jaybird0827 (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> The only arguments I am seeing are 1)"I don't like self check outs" or 2)"they make me work." Boo hoo.
> 
> In regards to number 1), well...opinions are like belly buttons, everybody has one.
> ...


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Gregg_
> ...



Perhaps you should not trust all that you see because you certainly do not see the real argument or complaint here. Do you honestly feel you adequately summed up my complaint by calling me lazy? This is a serious question I would like an answer to. I am offended and wonder if you read any of my posts before you responded.

Am I lazy because I do not put up with poor service by those I pay service fees to? Lazy is encouraging inactivity. I am encouraging companies to activity. To pay people to do the service they get paid for. The complaint is towards Americans embracing low standards and poor service.

Shall I set up a Lemon-aid stand at 25 cents a glass with the expectation that the customers bring their own lemons or squeeze the lemons themselves? If such a gimmick works then applaud the business for being wise, but understand it is due to the foolishness of the majority.

Am I lazy because I expect the company which I pay service fees to, to actually wash the tables of previous customer´s filth? Or should I just embrace such low standards and wash it myself?

This may seem trivial to many people and I will accept that "“ it is of no surprise to me. I pay for a service and expect quality service. If Wal-Mart provides self-checkouts as an option, then so be it; it is a clever idea. To give no option but for customers to do the service that they pay for because of the companies incapacity seems to me like we are being taken advantage of for our low expectations and willingness to fund irresponsibility. I find that insulting.

To those who insist that these types of strategies keep prices low, I have yet to see evidence that Self-checkout Wal-Mart has lower prices than pre self-checkout Wal-Mart.


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## Arch2k (Jul 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Perhaps you should not trust all that you see because you certainly do not see the real argument or complaint here. Do you honestly feel you adequately summed up my complaint by calling me lazy? This is a serious question I would like an answer to. I am offended and wonder if you read any of my posts before you responded.


Christopher,

Please take no offense by my words. If you will look at my post, I did not call you lazy. 

With that, I will make a few comments, and then I would like to resign from this thread, because I do see this as a trivial matter.



> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Am I lazy because I do not put up with poor service by those I pay service fees to? Lazy is encouraging inactivity. I am encouraging companies to activity. To pay people to do the service they get paid for. The complaint is towards Americans embracing low standards and poor service.


Low standards? Compared to what? What about compared to the early settlers who actually had to catch their dinner? Do we have it that bad compared to those in Christ's day who fished for their food? Would Christ have complained about "self-checkouts"? Are you really PAYING for people to check you out?



> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Am I lazy because I expect the company which I pay service fees to, to actually wash the tables of previous customer´s filth? Or should I just embrace such low standards and wash it myself?


Do you want to eat at this place or not? This is a free market society, and businesses have the liberty to set up a business however they see fit. It is up to the customer if the business succeeds or fails. If you don't like it, don't support it.



> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> This may seem trivial to many people and I will accept that "“ it is of no surprise to me. I pay for a service and expect quality service.


How do you "pay" for the service? Is it a hidden cost somewhere marked in fine print?



> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> If Wal-Mart provides self-checkouts as an option, then so be it; it is a clever idea. To give no option but for customers to do the service that they pay for because of the companies incapacity seems to me like we are being taken advantage of for our low expectations and willingness to fund irresponsibility. I find that insulting.


"Low expectations." What next? Let's raise our expectations as high as the sky! Maybe we can e-mail wal-mart and have them deliver our groceries because we "pay" for that service! This line of argumentation can be taken to an ad hominem degree.



> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> To those who insist that these types of strategies keep prices low, I have yet to see evidence that Self-checkout Wal-Mart has lower prices than pre self-checkout Wal-Mart.


Maybe instead of raising prices, Wal-Mart would like to keep them the same by utilizing self-checkouts? 

Regardless, I think that way too much of my thought has been geared toward the self-checkout evils of big business. I mean no disrepect to you Christopher by my comments, but offer them as an opposing opinion for your consideration.


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## Peter (Jul 27, 2006)

Christopher, I don't want to sound rude, but if you think the cost of check-out service is worth it you should find some where else to shop or mabye hire a servant. Many poor families benefit tremendously from cost cutting policies that get rid of things they don't need or can do themselves.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 27, 2006)

Christopher, I suspect I may have offended with my jesting too. Please accept my apologies. 

Vic


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



I am not sure how else to take your response. You did not answer my question. 1). Did you read my posts before responding? 2). Do you honestly feel you adequately summed up my position with your two observations?

You did not call me lazy. You called lazy anyone who complains about self-checkouts because "˜they make me work.´ Boo hoo." Have my posts really lead you to believe this is all about me not wishing to exert energy? Seriously. Since joining the PB I have always had respect for you and appreciate your interaction here, but I was honestly disappointed in your response. If this is so insignificant and trivial then ignore it, do not belittle those who think it important. I think it is important. 

I am not alone (perhaps more so here). There happens to be a book on this very subject titled, _The McDonaldization of Society: An Investigation into the Changing Character of Contemporary Social Life_. One site lists the definition of such a term as "œthe process by which the principles of the fast-food restaurant are coming to dominate more and more sectors of American society as well as of the rest of the world.

Back when I was in college I was required to read this book for my Sociology class, but I did not (I read parts). I wish I had, but in those days I did what I had to do to stay sane with a heavy course load (and sociology "“ although fascinating was not my major). I do not endorse everything the book is about or what the author may stand for, but I am sensitive to his thesis in general. 

To simply say the complaint is a matter of having to work and thus be lazy is not the issue at all.



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> With that, I will make a few comments, and then I would like to resign from this thread, because I do see this as a trivial matter.



You and the majority of Americans thus this is unfortunately not an issue. <shrug>



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



This is a response to the Luddite argument mentioned already. Again "“ not the issue. Technology has not been considered the evil by me. The standards are compared to what is to be generally expected from services. I believe it very possible their will be a day when all shoppers in all stores will scan and bag their own items and get out. Technology costs jobs, but so does willingness to allow companies to decrease their full service at the expense of the consumer. Full service used to be expected. Today it is a premium, we simply accept it as ok.

EZ Pass is a great example. What happened to those who used to staff toll booths? Did EZ pass cost jobs? Yes, but it also helps keep traffic flowing and I personally have EZ Pass and embrace the idea. It is a great technological advancement. However Toll Booth operators were not a service, but a necessity. Scanning my items, answering questions right away, fixing miss-marked items and bagging the merchandise is a service that is appreciated.



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



It is a lack of awareness by the majority of Americans that is a problem in my view. I am not going to picket and have marches and such. Wal-Mart is not the evil. They are smart. I simply wish more people would be smart about things and think about what they communicate by their willingness to help companies make up for their insufficiencies. I can´t avoid these places. There are too few alternatives and the few alternatives are often not as stocked and too expensive.

I will repeat myself again, it is not the self-checkout in itself that caused the concern for me. Wal-Mart intentionally left all the registers staff less except for the self checkouts (and one strategically placed 10 items or less line), giving the consumer no option thus implying that the consumer owes it to Wal-Mart somehow to make up for their lack of employees.



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



I did not see any contracts before shopping at these places. The standard for service was set by their "œforefathers" and slowly these initial policies of helping their customers in everyway manageable are diminishing in comparison to the initial standards set by like companies or same companies which started out with higher quality service. The idea is to keep cash flowing at the same rate or better while lowering the expense needed to operate. As long as people are willing to do the service that Wal-Mart and the like once paid to do, then their strategy will work. If that is ok with you then so be it.



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Again expectations based on what our money used to provide. As far as I can remember Wal-Mart never took items to the car for people. If they did, then that would be a standard our money once paid for. I do not believe prices are being reduced when such former services are forfeited.



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



If we are talking about inflation then we can look at all things as relative. If they provided low prices with staffed registers in 1996, then they certainly can in 2006. Prices escalate, wages escalate, income escalates, etc (granted not always at the same rate). 



> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> Regardless, I think that way too much of my thought has been geared toward the self-checkout evils of big business. I mean no disrepect to you Christopher by my comments, but offer them as an opposing opinion for your consideration.



And I maintain that not enough thought is geared towards, not the evils of big business or the self-checkout, but the effect of embracing diminishing quality in American business and life.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> Christopher, I don't want to sound rude, but if you think the cost of check-out service is worth it you should find some where else to shop or mabye hire a servant. Many poor families benefit tremendously from cost cutting policies that get rid of things they don't need or can do themselves.



Thanks for the advice Peter. Please read my response to Jeff. I am not sure what hiring a servant will do. I am not sure what you are implying.

If this topic is too trivial to not sound rude, then please refrain from contributing.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by victorbravo_
> Christopher, I suspect I may have offended with my jesting too. Please accept my apologies.
> 
> Vic



I appreciate it brother.

I learned that just because a topic may not be as important to me as some are to others, does not constitute making fun at the others expense.

By many of the responses people have posted, leads me to believe either they have not read what has been said or simply don't remember what they read.

I think I will go now and be "œall alone in my principles".

(2 Puritan Heads  to anyone who knows what movie I am referencing)


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> I think I will go now and be "œall alone in my principles".
> 
> (2 Puritan Heads  to anyone who knows what movie I am referencing)



_That Thing You Do!_


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



So quick - you sir deserve these! That is one of my favorite movies.

Please accept these on behalf of the Puritan Board:


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## Puritanhead (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



Hey!!! You can't just give away _Puritanheads_ unless I get my royalties. Pay up! $$$
:bigsmile:


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



Thanks! 

Mine too!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...


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## ChristopherPaul (Jul 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Consider yourself USURPED!


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## Peter (Jul 28, 2006)

Christopher, I don't consider the topic trivial. I think its very important that the poor receive the goods they need at the lowest possible price. Cutting unnecessary costs, which some more wealthy consumers enjoy, means raising the bottom line. Profits mean capital which means more stuff at cheaper prices and this is one of the reasons why Wal-mart has the best prices anywhere. Wal-marts efficient policies such as the self-checkout system have increased the wealth and the quality of life of America, most immediately the poor. Attacking Wal-mart b/c of a personal preference is narrow sighted and short sighted. Narrow sighted because you are only considering yourself and not the billions with less than you. Short sighted b/c in the long run the consequences will effect you, for eg, some of those who buy from you will have less real income thus less to expend on you. I don't mean reversing the self-checkout system alone will have such a terribly adverse effect but as it is part of Wal-mart's measures to increase productivity I defend it. If you like someone to check out for you go to a store that has that but expect higher prices (or else there is at lest a reduction of the stores capital accumulation and their growth is being artificially retarded)


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