# Do We Preach Comparably?



## Archlute (Feb 24, 2007)

This thought has been nagging at me for quite some time now. I've been bothered by the discrepancy in the power and focus of the preaching that comes from our Reformed pulpits when they are compared to the sermons of the Reformers/Puritans of the past. We often rail against the preaching that comes from behind the "portable music-stand" pulpits of broad evangelicalism, but frankly, I don't find that we're doing that much better.

I find most preaching in our circles to be boring and spiritually powerless. In the PCA, I weary of the way that seeker sensitivity and appeals to pop culture (i.e the endless references to movies, "funny" personal stories, etc.) have tempered the message. In OPC and Dutch circles, I find that RH style preaching that refuses to incorporate doctrinal discussions and pointed applications from the text have seriously fouled up the power of the preached Word.

Beyond that, however, I am constantly wondering this - are Reformed minsters cowards? A provocative way of putting it, I realize, yet I've wondered if there is a common source behind the weakness. Much preaching in the PCA seems to me to be fueled by a fear of ever offending anyone, of not being seen as "nice" or "culturally relevant". Those motives are surely not found in OPC/URC circles, but is there a fear of confronting their people none the less? I mean, if you never preached pointed application or doctrine, could you be trying to protect yourself from the complacent elders, or prominent parishioners, from which you know you'd receive heat? 

I find that the most edifying preachers, whether various puritans, Spurgeon, Lloyd-Jones, invariably preached hard doctrines and humbling application. I do not see men of their calibre in our ministry (I have also heard all of these men roundly critiqued by 3rd rate preachers in our churches). Yet, that is the very thing. All of the men mentioned lived difficult lives of controversy and public criticism. They feared no man, and for that the men-pleasers in the churches were always opposed to them. Have we allowed our personal comfort, the desire for a surface unity, and the maintaining of polity structures to kill the fire of our message?

Along with the above, I have often wondered how much our country's insistence upon pluralism (in all its various forms), "tolerance", and a flawed misreading of the separation of church and state idea, have done damage even within Reformed thinking. I know that I have run into conflict with a prof at my seminary in the past for not being "charitable enough" with unbelieving philosophers, and for not being "understanding enough" towards feminist agendas. When I pointed out that the phrases found within my paper (for which I was seriously marked down) were no different than those found in the writings of Van Til (which I only discovered later), it made no difference to him - I was accused of "violating the canons of charitable scholarship" within academia. When were the Reformers ever concerned about acceptance within the unbelieving academy?

What are your thoughts on this, and what have been your personal observations?

Where have we compromised, and what needs to be done about it?


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## ADKing (Feb 24, 2007)

Hard and humbling words for those of us in the ministry, Adam. But thank you for posting this. Undoubtedly we need to pray for the spirit that animated the reformers and indeed, the apostles and prophets before them. 

I have found the following quote from Geerhardus Vos particulalrly useful to me every week in my sermon preparation: 

_It is absolutely essential for us that we should not only have our seasons of communion with God, but that all the time we should carry with us into our outward and public work to some degree a living sense of our nearness to God and of his nearness to us, because in this way alone can we make our service in the Lord's kingdom truly fruitful and spiritual. If the savor of this is wanting in our work, if we do not bring to the world when we come to it the unction and peace acquired in prayer, we cannot hope to impart any permanent blessing or to achieve any lasting results._ (from his sermon "Songs from the Soul" in Grace and Glory). A true relationship to God in the closet is necessary for and flows over into our outward work. Let each of us who mounts a pulpit consider this well.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

ADKing said:


> A true relationship to God in the closet is necessary for and flows over into our outward work. Let each of us who mounts a pulpit consider this well.



*AMEN!!!*


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 24, 2007)

I posted a quote by William Gouge on preaching in another thread:



> Remember, we do not mount the pulpit to say fine things, or eloquent things, we have there to proclaim the good tidings of salvation to fallen men; to point out the way of eternal life; to exhort, to cheer and support the suffering sinner; these are the glorious topics upon which we have to enlarge -- and will these permit the tricks of oratory, or the studied beauties of eloquence? Shall truths and counsels like these be couched in terms which the poor and ignorant cannot comprehend? Let all eloquent preachers beware lest they fill any man's ear with sounding words, when they should be feeding his soul with the bread of everlasting life! -- Let them fear lest instead of honouring God, they honour themselves! If any man ascend the pulpit with the intention of uttering _A Fine Thing_, he is committing a deadly sin.
> 
> Cited by James Reid, _Memoirs of the Westminster Divines_, p. 349



I have personally heard only a handful of ministers who, like Paul, do not draw back in some measure from proclaiming the whole counsel of God from the pulpit. Most preaching today, even in Reformed churches, in my experience, is anemic. It is a true saying that a faithful minister is one in a thousand. 

But I thank God for the Puritan preaching that I sit under every week. Of my pastor Steven Dilday, I would echo the comments of Matthew Henry concerning his father Philip's preaching:



> He adapted his method and style to the capacities of his hearers, fetching his similitudes for illustration from those things which were familiar to them. He did not shoot the arrow of the word over their heads in high notions, or the flourishes of affected rhetoric, nor under their feet by blunt and homely expressions, but to their hearts in close and lively applications. His delivery was very graceful and agreeable, neither noisy and precipitate on the one hand, nor dull and slow on the other. His doctrine dropped as the dew, and distilled as the soaking rain, and came with a charming, pleasing power, such as many bore witness to, that have wondered at the gracious words which proceeded out of his mouth.



It is my prayer that all ministers would take to heart the saying of Richard Baxter:



> I preached as never sure to preach again, And as a dying man to dying men.



To be a minister is to be called by God to the highest of callings. I thank God for the faithful ministers that we have. We need to pray for our ministers. And we need to pray the Lord of the harvest to raise more such godly men who will preach the Lord Jesus Christ and his gospel without fear of men.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

> I preached as never sure to preach again, And as a dying man to dying men.



This quote from Baxter should be mounted on every pulpit!


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## Herald (Feb 24, 2007)

Ivan said:


> This quote from Baxter should be mounted on every pulpit!



Amen. May those of us who proclaim God's word do so with the same attitude of Baxter.


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## blhowes (Feb 24, 2007)

As a layman, and really an outsider to the reformed community practically speaking (I don't attend a reformed church), my exposure to reformed preaching is extremely limited. But judging by the sermons I've listened to online, particularly those of many of the preachers at the PB now, and others who have left, I come away with a slightly more optimistic view of present day preaching. I don't know if its fair to compare any of these men to the preaching of the puritans, but they seem to be doing the job that God called them to. Cowards? No, I don't think so. Granted my opinion is purely anecdotal based on a small sample, but I'm encouraged by what I've heard.


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## ChristopherPaul (Feb 24, 2007)

blhowes said:


> As a layman, and really an outsider to the reformed community practically speaking (I don't attend a reformed church), my exposure to reformed preaching is extremely limited. But judging by the sermons I've listened to online, particularly those of many of the preachers at the PB now, and others who have left, I come away with a slightly more optimistic view of present day preaching. I don't know if its fair to compare any of these men to the preaching of the puritans, but they seem to be doing the job that God called them to. Cowards? No, I don't think so. Granted my opinion is purely anecdotal based on a small sample, but I'm encouraged by what I've heard.



Yeah, but keep in mind people do not go to sermonaudio.com or the like to listen to the bad preachers. I am afraid your small sample is not representative of the majority.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Feb 24, 2007)

I can only comment based on what I am aware of and have been a apart of here in South Florida.

We have been members in two Particular Baptist churches here, and members of two PCA churches here. We have attended almost all of them for a period of time.

We have 19 PCA churches in South Florida.

We have 3 OPC churches.

We have 1 EPC church.

We have 3 Particular Baptist Churches.

There is very little if no Reformed preaching in these churches - its like a borken clock - even a broken clock is right twice a day. But that is being exceedingly liberal for these churches.

For the SF PCA presbytary, its one of the most liberal in the PCA and the ministers in it take the most exceptions to the WCF. I left the PCA after sitting in thier Presbytary meetings.

One of the largest problems, which is predominately eminent here, is that preachers are salaried positions in a transient culture here. Which means, very plainly, if you don't have people to come to your church, you are out of a job. That means you cater to the masses. In some cases, like First Presbyterian Church in Margate, Coral Ridge Presbyterian Church in Ft. Lauderdale, and Spanish River Church in Boca Raton, you have massive structures and huge amounts of properties to uphold, and plainly, people will not come to church to hear Reformed preaching. _Who is going to pay the bills?_ To uphold these massive structures, you need faithful tithers who are not going to feel bad in church. So, preaching compromises to "talk about" some hard subjects, but I've lived here for almost 20 years, and I've never heard a sermon about hell until I preached one. After 20 years, I've never heard a sermon about covenant theology, or the covenants in general. I've never heard of any group going systematically through the WCF in class, or the Larger and Shorter Catechism, without taking a huge number of exceptions to "little things" like the Regulative Principle, worship, the law, the Lord's Day, the covenant of works, and other things that just "don't preach well." For the ministers here it takes but an instant to see their true colors - no people = no job, thus - no Reformed preaching.

There are no churches in South Florida that hold to the Regulative Principle. Across the board you find compromises even into the eldership, which, as in the cases of Coral Ridge and Spanish River, you have Arminian elders on staff. The worship of God is turned into (no joke) parades and puppet shows, irreverence, and all atrocities that would make any "partly Reformed" Christian shudder.

So we plant a church, and thus, we have a very, very small number of people attending - a whopping 3! We have even had people come for a time, then leave. Why? In their words - "we just don't want to be part of a micro denomination, and we need more a support structure because not everyone believes the way you do." In other words - there's just no enough people here. Well, at least we know where their priorities stand.

Puritan pulpits, like the one John Owen had, topped at 35 people. Imagine that - Owen preached for a good number of years to relatively few people. Most of the puritan churches did. They were surrounded by a particular geographic location, with a certain number of people and means to minister. But most puritan churches were small.

We definitely need more Reformed Preaching. But think about this - I am going to have more people _listening_ to my sermons from a distance who have no church to go to in other countries and around the US, than I ever will in the house church I preach in. That's quite interesting to me.

I am going to be placing an ad in the paper as the Lord blesses us monetarily. It will read something like - "Church looking for wicked and sinful Father seekers who desire to worship Him in spirit and in truth, in order to glorify the risen Christ and find forgiveness for thier sins." So, will they come? Probably not. But it's better than "Come and join our youth group for fun and games", or "Come and use our stove to cook your food!" (No kidding on these) or "Presbyterian Church Choir seeking joyful singers" and the like.

We wonder why there is little Reformed Preaching? There are few Reformed _Preachers_. 

Elihu says in Job - they are 1 in a 1000.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

Matthew, 

I am a pastor of a very small church too. We don't have our own building. We are about 12 in attendance right now. I haven't preach a sermon on hell, but I've said from the pulpit numerous times that if sinners don't repent and trust in Christ only, they will go to hell. 

Matthew (and others), let's me faithful to the LORD. Preach the Word, in season and out of season. Let us be counted faithful!

Keep on, brother!


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## ADKing (Feb 24, 2007)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> So we plant a church, and thus, we have a very, very small number of people attending - a whopping 3! We have even had people come for a time, then leave. Why? In their words - "we just don't want to be part of a micro denomination, and we need more a support structure because not everyone believes the way you do." In other words - there's just no enough people here. Well, at least we know where their priorities stand.



I will pray for you brothers there. I appreciated reading your post, Matthew. Our experience here in Vermont is similar. At present we are a relatively small congregation but wholeheartedly committed to the reformed faith as embodied in the Westminster Standards. It is encouraging to know that other faithful servants of the Lord are fighting in the same battle but ultimately we have Christ's promise that _*he*_ will build his church. Keep on!


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Feb 24, 2007)

We strive against being man-pleasers, and will continue to uphold the faith once delievered as Christ gives us stregnth!

We should fervently pray for more Reformed Preachers and encourage one another regularly!


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

*AMEN, SIR!*


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## JKLeoPCA (Feb 24, 2007)

I guess a follow up question would lead back to the seminaries and what was learned or what was taught. They obviously knew enough to pass the examinations for licensure, and ordination. I heard somewhere that once someone is out of seminary, where theology is the rule, they abandon it all once in the pulpit for the sake of practicality, never really understanding the bond that theology has to the practical everyday life. But then that really has to go back to the minister having that personal relationship within, that works it'self outwardly. Prayer, lots of prayer.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Feb 24, 2007)

Seminary for me was at RTS Orlando in 1992. 
I found, looking back, that seminary told you "where" the Ten Commandments were, but they did not teach you "what" the Ten Commandments meant in the life of the church. Take for example this massively misunderstood fact: I was not exposed in seminary, at all, at any time, to the Westminster Standards. I just don't get that at all.

Interesting where seminary is today.


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## MW (Feb 25, 2007)

I do not think it is a matter of whether we preach comparably to those of yesteryear, but whether the same Spirit and Word fill our labours as we seek to persuade the people of our own generation. In general the state of the congregation will determine the quality of the performance. It was once said that the Free Church ministers after the Disruption were able to preach such solid sermons because their hearers were themselves well instructed. We must speak the truth in love, which will require us to suit the message to the capacity of the auditory. I would also be wary of the idea that my sermons may have a "wider" audience as a result of tape or internet ministry, because it might have the undue effect of producing messages which are unfitted for personal attendance but better heard in the comfort of one's own home. That would be disastrous in its tendency to diminish the importance of the public means of grace. Blessings!


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## KMK (Feb 25, 2007)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> We strive against being man-pleasers, and will continue to uphold the faith once delievered as Christ gives us stregnth!
> 
> We should fervently pray for more Reformed Preachers and encourage one another regularly!



 

I too have a small congregation of 4 or 5 families. The Reformed churches here in the mountains are not only small but few and far between. I preached for 7 months to an empty room before God sent sheep so I no longer struggle with the comparitively small number of congragants in my church compared to those of the surrounding Purpose Driven churches.

I am truly saddened to hear of the state of preaching in OPC and PCA churches!  I assumed that was your strongest suit! 

in my opinion this is all due to a famine similar to Amos 8:11. When a christian nation like ours turns their backs on God, He will give them a famine of hearing God's Word and He will sift that nation (Amos 9:9).


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## bookslover (Feb 25, 2007)

Ivan said:


> This quote from Baxter should be mounted on every pulpit!



True. But I remember reading Baxter himself admitting that one of the main reasons he engaged in heavily catechizing his people during the week was that his own sermons were over most of their heads (in that day of long, complicated Puritan sermons ["And, now, 32ndly..."]).

Apparently, it never occurred to him to simplify his sermons. Simplify - as opposed to watering them down, of course.


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## bookslover (Feb 25, 2007)

KMK said:


> I am truly saddened to hear of the state of preaching in OPC and PCA churches!  I assumed that was your strongest suit!



I've been in the OPC for more than 10 years, and the vast majority of the preaching I've heard has been excellent. Alan R. Pontier (who's reasonably near you in Big Bear) and B. J. Gorrell in Westminster, CA are both excellent preachers, for example.


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