# No condemnation to those who . . .



## Kim G (Dec 11, 2008)

I have a question regarding the second half of Romans 8:1. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."

Does this mean that those who are in Christ *do not *walk according to the flesh (In other words,, does "who do not walk according to the flesh" explain all those who are in Christ)? Or does it mean that that, of those who are in Christ, there are some who walk according the flesh and some according to the Spirit (In other words,, does "who do not walk according to the flesh" further qualify those who receive no condemnation?)

I've always assumed it's the first, but can I know that from this passage's context?


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## satz (Dec 11, 2008)

I think the verses speaks about assurance. If you walk after the Spirit, you know you are in Christ and that there is hence no condemnation for you.


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## discipulo (Dec 11, 2008)

Some from a pelagian trend question the Perseverance of the Saints 

on that conditional basis.

but in fact further vs 9 and vs 14-16 pretty much settles it.

Being His we are sealed by the Spirit (Ephesians 1:13) and therefore led by the Spirit.

_But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God

dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

(…) For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God. 

For ye have not received the spirit of bondage again to fear; but ye have received the 

Spirit of adoption, whereby we cry, Abba, Father. 

The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God: _

There is a long exegesis of passages that affirm this but I add these words from our Lord

_Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and 

believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and *shall not come into condemnation*; 

but is passed from death unto life._ John 5: 24 (emphasis mine)


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## Scott1 (Dec 11, 2008)

> Romans 8
> 
> 1There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
> 
> ...



Reformed theology helps us here. We approach God's Word in faith that the Holy Spirit will illuminate our understanding. Scripture interprets scripture and context should seek to be understood (grammatico-historical intepretation).

I think this is saying that the controlling power and dominion of sin over the life of someone God has chosen to redeem is, in fact broken.

The old nature, dead in sin, acted in general accord with its nature to its end of death, judgment and destruction. The new nature, given by God acts in accord with its nature of life, mercy, and grace.

Jesus Christ has in fact broken the dominant control of sin over our lives. The Apostle Paul is exhorting us here to act like it!

Now, we know a remnant of the fall remains in us after God redeems us (elects, regenerates, gives faith, justifies, adopts). That becomes the lifelong struggle of sanctification. God shows us more and more just how really self centered, disobedient and contemptuous of Him we are and calls us to repent of it and have faith in Him. Right along with that He reveals more and more of his love, mercy and grace.

Incidentally, that is why church discipline is so important for those who appear to be openly walking a disorderly, disobedient life despite their profession. Over time, it tends to bear out what God has actually done- redeemed a sinner and given him grace or passed him by to receive the justice willfull disobedience deserves.


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## Marrow Man (Dec 11, 2008)

Not to turn this into a text critical thread, but the phrase "who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit" is not found in several translations. It is part of the TR (and I assume the MT as well) but not the NA text.



> Therefore there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (NASB)
> Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, (NIV; the additional phrase is footnoted in the NIV, however)
> There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. (ESV; also footnoted)



And, of course, there's the following version 

[video=youtube;Co5-v8gaaG4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Co5-v8gaaG4[/video]


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## TheFleshProfitethNothing (Dec 11, 2008)

Yes. It is a continuation of the thought of Romans 6 and 7. That a person who struggles against his flesh, shows a desire for the Law. It is a sure sign was is born of the Spirit, and is an assurance to the believer.

As mentioned, if you keep reading you will see that the point is believers do walk after the Spirit.


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## TimV (Dec 11, 2008)

Yes, the MT has it. One of the nice things about e-sword! Just click on the verse and get the text from all the Bibles you've added (for free). And it's on your hard drive rather than online so it's really fast.

Rom 8:1

(ASV) There is therefore now no condemnation to them that are in Christ Jesus. 

(EMTV) There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 

(ESV) There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus. 

(Geneva) Now then there is no condemnation to them that are in Christ Iesus, which walke not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 

(GNT) Οὐδὲν ἄρα νῦν κατάκριμα τοῖς ἐν Χριστῷ ᾿Ιησοῦ μὴ κατὰ σάρκα περιπατοῦσιν, ἀλλά κατά πνεῦμα. 

(GNT-TR) ουδεν αρα νυν κατακριμα τοις εν χριστω ιησου μη κατα σαρκα περιπατουσιν αλλα κατα πνευμα

(GNT-TR+) ουδενG3762 A-NSN-N αραG686 PRT νυνG3568 ADV κατακριμαG2631 N-NSN τοιςG3588 T-DPM ενG1722 PREP χριστωG5547 N-DSM ιησουG2424 N-DSM μηG3361 PRT-N καταG2596 PREP σαρκαG4561 N-ASF περιπατουσινG4043 V-PAP-DPM αλλαG235 CONJ καταG2596 PREP πνευμαG4151 N-ASN 

(GNT-WH+) ουδενG3762 A-NSN-N αραG686 PRT νυνG3568 ADV κατακριμαG2631 N-NSN τοιςG3588 T-DPM ενG1722 PREP χριστωG5547 N-DSM ιησουG2424 N-DSM 

(KJV+) There is thereforeG686 nowG3568 noG3762 condemnationG2631 to themG3588 which are inG1722 ChristG5547 Jesus,G2424 who walkG4043 notG3361 afterG2596 the flesh,G4561 butG235 afterG2596 the Spirit.G4151 

(LXX) 

(SRV) AHORA pues, ninguna condenación hay para los que están en Cristo Jesús, los que no andan conforme á la carne, mas conforme al espíritu. 

(Vulgate) nihil ergo nunc damnationis est his qui sunt in Christo Iesu qui non secundum carnem ambulant


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## Marrow Man (Dec 11, 2008)

TimV said:


> Yes, the MT has it. One of the nice things about e-sword!



I used GramCord! 




> Just click on the verse and get the text from all the Bibles you've added (for free).



And it wasn't free!


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## CharlieJ (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm not always for any particular text, but in this case I prefer the shorter reading.

First, the addition can be easily explained by interpolation from v. 4. 

Second, the interpolation occurred in two stages. Most of the earliest witnesses (Alexandrian, Western, old latin, coptic, armenian) have the shorter reading. Then some manuscripts show up only including "who walk not after the flesh" at v. 1. Then, later ones include both clauses. (Although, it's not quite that linear. The chronology overlaps somewhat.)

Third, the theological climate (specifically w/ the possibility of losing salvation b/c of sin after baptism) favored tempering the assurance passages.

Fourth, the chapter reads just fine, if not better, w/o it.


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## moral necessity (Dec 12, 2008)

Kim G said:


> I have a question regarding the second half of Romans 8:1. "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit."
> 
> Does this mean that those who are in Christ *do not *walk according to the flesh (In other words,, does "who do not walk according to the flesh" explain all those who are in Christ)? Or does it mean that that, of those who are in Christ, there are some who walk according the flesh and some according to the Spirit (In other words,, does "who do not walk according to the flesh" further qualify those who receive no condemnation?)
> 
> I've always assumed it's the first, but can I know that from this passage's context?



in my opinion, I tend to think that the phrase "those who walk according to the Spirit" is mainly a gospel reference, meaning those who walk so as to look by faith towards the finished work of Christ for their salvation, and that the phrase "those who walk according to the flesh" means those who walk so as to end up looking towards their external works or performance of the law for their salvation. I tend to think that the point is about where we place our faith and trust entirely, and to whether or not we let our eyes become diverted from Christ or not, and the fruit that therefore is borne from such a focus either way. For, it later says, that those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit (as a cause and effect sort of situation). Why be redundant, if both of the phrases mean the same thing? For, why tell someone the obvious, that those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit, if it meant that already to start with? And, why tell someone the opposite obvious, that those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, if it meant that already to start with? That is why I tend to think that the entire phrase simply intends to grasp the concept of how we live with regard to where we place our focus for our rightness with God. For, if we place our focus on Christ alone, then I think this passage is saying here that we will end up with the proper fruit that is borne form such a focus and trust, which is that we will end up minding the things of the Spirit. But, if we divert our eyes back to the law with regard to our salvation, then the natural result will follow, that we will end up minding the things of the flesh. This tends to be how I view the passage for now. Because, if the passage truly refers to granting no condemnation only to those who submit entirely to the Spirit and not to the flesh, then we are all at a loss if we're honest, in my opinion.


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