# The "mid-service mint" at Dutch congregations



## Tim (Apr 29, 2013)

Late last year, I attended worship at a theologically and ethnically Dutch Reformed church. To my amazement, midway through the worship service, I heard the crinkly sound of hundreds of breath mints and hard candies being opened simultaneously. I later learned that this is common in Dutch congregations. 

What a curious tradition! Please explain if you can!


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## Peairtach (Apr 29, 2013)

Sweeties are eaten in conservative Scottish Presbyterian congregations too, but people usually discreetly slip them into their mouths. I have heard of rare cases where individuals noisily chomp through a whole bag of cream-lined toffees during the sermon, disturbing the concentration of those in front of them.
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## Tim (Apr 29, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> Sweeties are eaten in conservative Scottish Presbyterian congregations too, but people usually discreetly slip them in their mouths.



Everybody at the same time?


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## Peairtach (Apr 29, 2013)

Not all at the same time in some kind of "ritual", but a few will take a sweetie as the sermon commences.

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## Pergamum (Apr 29, 2013)

Some of those dutch "Drops" are very nasty tasting (like black licorice)...


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## Tim (Apr 29, 2013)

> 2. It's encouraged for folks to do it all at once so as hopefully to create less of a distraction.



Yes. That would be better than something like this:

[video=youtube;VZMgP2ai79Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZMgP2ai79Q[/video]


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## Poimen (Apr 29, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> Some of those dutch "Drops" are very nasty tasting (like black licorice)...



I demand satisfaction sir!


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## Jack K (Apr 29, 2013)

When I was growing up in the CRC, it was common in many of the more Dutch churches we visited for families to discretly pass around a roll of mints just as the sermon was getting started. They were Dutch-made mints, of course. It was NOT announced from the pulpit as a part of the service or anything, and I don't recall it making much noise, but most families would do it. I was told it was to help you pay attention (as Josh speculated); but as a child, I just appreciated getting candy. It felt more like it was a pleasant little Dutch tradition than like it was done out of piety.

I recall reading a criticism of the practice a few years back. Some Reformed purist complained that Scripture doesn't authorize candy-eating as part of worship. But in my experience, it was never treated as an element of the service nor was it officially encouraged to be done in any particular fashion. It was just something you as a worshiper knew you were going to do at some point, and by common custom it was accomplished at an opportune and discrete moment, like blowing your nose.


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## Alan D. Strange (Apr 29, 2013)

Generally speaking, as Rev. Kok could testify, what are generally taken are Wilhelmina or King mints. These are taken just before the sermon, not in the earlier part of the service. This is why they are, as Tim noted, "mid-service."

And it is indeed, as Josh noted, to help the pew-sitters maintain alertness during the preaching. Sermons are sometimes referred to as two-mint, or in rare cases, three-mint sermons. It is not considered part of the liturgy as such and thus not listed ("The Taking of the Mint"). It is not considered an element of worship but perhaps a circumstance. 

Rev. Kok, you should realize that duelling has been outlawed here in the States (perhaps a surprise to any Canadian!). Nonetheless, if Perg takes up your challenge and chooses something like "theological puns at twenty feet," I may be willing to serve, if you wish, as your second!

Peace,
Alan


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## Jack K (Apr 29, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> Some of those dutch "Drops" are very nasty tasting (like black licorice)...



Some of those can be nasty at first, though they're quite a treat once you acquire the taste. But they're not to be confused with the sermon-time mint, which is pure sugar and peppermint. You'd like it.


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## MarieP (Apr 29, 2013)

Tim said:


> What a curious tradition!



Were they those "curiously strong" mints?


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## Poimen (Apr 29, 2013)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Generally speaking, as Rev. Kok could testify, what are generally taken are Wilhelmina or King mints. These are taken just before the sermon, not in the earlier part of the service. This is why they are, as Tim noted, "mid-service."
> 
> And it is indeed, as Josh noted, to help the pew-sitters maintain alertness during the preaching. Sermons are sometimes referred to as two-mint, or in rare cases, three-mint sermons. It is not considered part of the liturgy as such and thus not listed ("The Taking of the Mint"). It is not considered an element of worship but perhaps a circumstance.
> 
> ...



Sadly, due to the influence of the liberalizing tendencies of American evangelicalism, most of our congregations have replaced the traditional mint with jelly beans, caramels and the Jolly Rancher (a favorite of Emergemint Church). Hence the monikers "tolermints" "permissivemints" and "indulgemints." 

Please note that there is not only the Taking of the Mint but also the following Receiving of the Mint and, occasionally, the Snatching of the Mint (for those little hands that are quicker than Mom's eye). 

Well then, perhaps I will just throw a case of Wilheminas at him.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## MarieP (Apr 29, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> (like black licorice)...



You can send those to me! (Maybe it's because I'm of Dutch ancestry, lol!)


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## MarieP (Apr 29, 2013)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Sermons are sometimes referred to as two-mint, or in rare cases, three-mint sermons.



OK- I'm going to test this out


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## MarieP (Apr 29, 2013)

Just don't preach with one- my pastor took a cough drop while preaching once....I wasn't there, but the tale is legend! At least he wasn't preaching on Rev. 3:16!


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## Pergamum (Apr 29, 2013)

My humblest apologies to all lovers of black licorice everywhere.


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## Cymro (Apr 29, 2013)

I am amazed at the toleration of such a practice, from within or from without. It is a quirk in the Scottish church
as our brother has confessed. Having been involved for over 40 yrs with the Free Church I am still disconcerted and
annoyed by this interference in public worship. To chew and chomp whilst engaged in divine worship smacks of entertainment
rather than a mode of concentration. Something to be engaged with in front of a television rather than in front of a preacher!
If a congregation has to resort to unwrapping sweets instead of unwrapping the content of the preacher's message, then change the preacher 
rather than the make of sweets. 
There was a late Minister in the Free church of authoritative presence and used in the salvation of many, when confronted with this aberration
in a morning service, stopped his sermon and upbraided them thus, "you are like a flock of wedders (2yr old sheep), chomping on a trough of tatties."
(potatoes).
The sermon is an integral part of worship and the same reverence is to be afforded it. If we uphold the doctrine of the Purity of Worship, then we ought
to discountenance this unholy intrusion.
Thy testimonies every one
in faithfulness excel;
And holiness for ever ,Lord,
thine house becometh well.

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## Gforce9 (Apr 29, 2013)

This thread is mint!


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## Mushroom (Apr 29, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> My humblest apologies to all lovers of black licorice everywhere.


There's lovers of black licorice anywhere? I thought those were thrown in as a joke, made from the floor sweepings at the candy factory, like getting the rotten peanut.

See, I learn new things everyday on PB!


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## smhbbag (Apr 29, 2013)

My wife's CRC family has always done this, and I thought it was a family quirk. They were the only ones in the congregation who did it.

Now that I think about it, they haven't done it in a while now that their youngest is 15. Interesting.


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## Jack K (Apr 29, 2013)

Cymro said:


> To chew and chomp whilst engaged in divine worship smacks of entertainment
> rather than a mode of concentration.



To be fair to those who take mints... I've never seen it done distractingly nor seen a mint either chewed or chomped. They're sucked, quietly. And in the case of certain otherwise stuffy and self-important worship services (yes, some churches get that way), a peppermint can provide a sweet change of pace at just the right time.


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## Mushroom (Apr 29, 2013)

If chewing mints will alleviate some folks from the need to prop their often bare feet up on the chair in front, the radiators, or the balcony parapet, I'd be glad to hand them out at the door...


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## AThornquist (Apr 29, 2013)

This is a practice I want to take up!


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## Somerset (Apr 29, 2013)

AThornquist said:


> This is a practice I want to take up!



The mints or the bare feet on chairs?


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## Brock Organ (Apr 29, 2013)

Tim said:


> To my amazement, midway through the worship service, I heard the crinkly sound of hundreds of breath mints and hard candies being opened simultaneously. I later learned that this is common in Dutch congregations.



It was also very noticeable and present in my experience at a previous church (a SBC church in NC) ... its seems a mint singularity occurs, with the actual loudness of the mint acting inversely proportional to the desired loudness of the unwrap-per-er ... I found peppermints wrapped up in crinkly plastic twist wrap the worst ... of course, an intention to induce a distraction would be bad, but my anecdotal experience was that the congregation was possessed instead of an unreasonably buoyant and forgetful optimism that the next mint would be "different" ... 

Regards!


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## Pergamum (Apr 29, 2013)

I went to one church in North Carolina that had places in each pew to spit your chaw. If Dutchies can have their mints, why not rednecks their toe-backer?

I think I'll bring a bag of super-crunchy nacho chips and a Super Big Gulp to my next service. If told to refrain from such practices, I will noticeably yawn and nod off to justify my practice and tell the elders, "I must do this in order to stay alert during your sermons, Pastor."


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## Mushroom (Apr 29, 2013)

Note to self- New Business Idea category: Evident need found for quieter candy/mint wrappers. Could a utility patent be had for such a thing?


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## SolaScriptura (Apr 29, 2013)

Perhaps I'm the only one shaking his head about the obvious indictment of an entire tradition's services which are such that people literally need a stimulant to stay awake during the sermon.

Rather than seeing this as a cute cultural tradition, I see it as a horrible necessity brought on by a terrible culture of almost intolerable boringness in the worship: Faced with an ecclesiastical situation they could not change, the faithful found a way to stay awake and try to engage their being in the worship service. Some people love boring and so they eat stimulants to stay awake. Others, well, others _leave_.

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## matt01 (Apr 29, 2013)

Wife was raised in a Dutch/CRC setting. They would take king mints or mentos at start of sermon. We give our girls jelly beans or worms, which are much quieter.



Perg said:


> My humblest apologies to all lovers of black licorice everywhere.



Dubbel Zoute licorice should be considered cruel & unusual punishment.


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## Brock Organ (Apr 29, 2013)

SolaScriptura said:


> Perhaps I'm the only one shaking his head about the obvious indictment of an entire tradition's services which are such that people literally need a stimulant to stay awake during the sermon.



Hi Ben,

I used to think that way, too. Then I got older and started having blood sugar issues ... 

Kind Regards!


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## Pergamum (Apr 29, 2013)

A think a rousing 15 minute chorus of "Sing Jesus shine" at the mid-point of every sermon is a healthier remedy than munching candy. And if done in the manner of many modern churches might burn more calories as well.


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## MW (Apr 29, 2013)

I enjoy the soothing delight of butter-scotch whilst ruminating on the sermon; unless of course I am the one preaching it, in which case I abstain for the sake of those sitting on the front row.


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## Gforce9 (Apr 29, 2013)

armourbearer said:


> I enjoy the soothing delight of butter-scotch whilst ruminating on the sermon; unless of course I am the one preaching it, in which case I abstain for the sake of those sitting on the front row.



This abstinence, pastor, is much appreciated. A Starlight mint or Butterscotch is better in the mouth than flying through the air at an unsuspecting communicant member........


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## AThornquist (Apr 29, 2013)

Somerset said:


> AThornquist said:
> 
> 
> > This is a practice I want to take up!
> ...



Mostly the mints. I wouldn't want to show off my feet to the brethren for fear of encroaching pride; they are some of my finer body parts, after all.


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## Frosty (Apr 29, 2013)

As long as the mint-passing doesn't produce this type of shenanigans (Mentos Ad) then I'm all for it.


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## kvanlaan (Apr 29, 2013)

> Rather than seeing this as a cute cultural tradition, I see it as a horrible necessity brought on by a terrible culture of almost intolerable boringness in the worship: Faced with an ecclesiastical situation they could not change, the faithful found a way to stay awake and try to engage their being in the worship service. Some people love boring and so they eat stimulants to stay awake. Others, well, others leave.



Whoa whoa whoa. This does indeed demand satisfaction, especially from Ben. Ben, I will see you at dawn; you choose: sabres or pistols. 

Actually, your evanjellyfish tendencies are likely punishment enough, as you are obviously of the sort that needs to be entertained during church. 

The King Peppermint is taken immediately after the scripture reading (not before!) prior to the start of the sermon (so it is more like a unified tear than a fumbling of plastic wrappers). We are usually a two mint per sermon family, mostly because we have a four year old in the bench. King and Wilhelmina are the norm in our church, but Mentos are showing more strongly than before (probably creeping liberalism).


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Apr 29, 2013)

In the Highlands of Scotland the Pan Drop was the mint of choice. The beauty of it was that they came unwrapped in a large bag. Several of these big ole suckers were popped into the (hopefully clean) pocket of one's jacket/coat and discreetly transferred from pocket to mouth, one at a time, during the sermon. Some rebellious ones would opt for wrapped candies/sweets, but even these could be fairly discreetly unwrapped one handedly in the pocket of one's jacket. Sermon length was measured in number of mints consumed- usually two, sometimes three. All that minty fresh breath made post church fellowship more inviting!
If one dropped one's mint then it would undoubtedly land with a loud crash on the wooden floor surrounding the pew. 
The idea behind it was to aid concentration and also help wet the mouth after singing.


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## Kiffin (Apr 30, 2013)

ArMINTians!


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## J Miles (Apr 30, 2013)

I am guilty of having my feet on the chairs.



SolaScriptura said:


> Perhaps I'm the only one shaking his head about the obvious indictment of an entire tradition's services which are such that people literally need a stimulant to stay awake during the sermon.



I would just like to say that at every Church I have ever attended in the US or in Canada, I have seen people napping, dazing, texting, eating, etc. during the sermon. This is because I have done all of those things at one point or another.  And I have been to congregations that sing "shine Jesus shine" and every song you can think of.

The church which I attend has 30 minute sermons with the latest hymns and a worship team. People are still caught napping and are drawing on the handouts during the sermon.


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## Kevin (Apr 30, 2013)

Perhaps if these were used...

CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURE CANDY


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## Tim (Apr 30, 2013)

Kevin said:


> Perhaps if these were used...
> 
> CHRISTIAN SCRIPTURE CANDY



Testa-mints!


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## Cymro (Apr 30, 2013)

Just picked up your rebuke Josh, and if the remark mentioned
has caused offence, then I unreservedly withdraw it. Yet I would
still maintain that sweet eating is unbecoming in Divine worship.
If it was Christ preaching would not our attitude be different? Yet
if we believe He is present in our worship, and the voice of the 
good Shepherd is heard in the Word preached, then the same
spiritual etiquette should be observed. Howbeit, do receive my
sincere apologies.
But I into thy house will come
in thine abundant grace;
And I will worship in thy fear
toward thy holy place.


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## MarieP (Apr 30, 2013)

Can I hear an AMINT?


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## jgilberAZ (Apr 30, 2013)

Black licorice?

Isn't that a bit redundant?

If it's not black, it's not licorice.


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## jwithnell (May 1, 2013)

I recall getting extra jalapenos on nachos to wake me up after late-night meetings I had to go to as a reporter. Don't think I'd try it in church  You know, I try to set Sunday aside as a "different" day for my kids. Slipping them a mint might continue in this purpose since I rarely just hand them candy.


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## Peairtach (May 1, 2013)

I've been offered mint imperials and polo mints in church since I was a child, but I can't take peppermints. The same thing happened just the other Sabbath evening when the other precentor offered me a mint.

I won't say no to a barley sugar, treacle toffee, or a chocolate lime.


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