# "Worship" on Wednesday?



## Gloria Dei (Mar 12, 2014)

I know that at some churches, there are Wednesday night services for middle school or high school. Would this "worship" be considered sin before God because it is a people gathered together for worship outside of the appointed time? (ie the Sabbath)


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## ZackF (Mar 12, 2014)

I think Calvin held daily worship in Geneva. I think Lord's day worship is commanded but is no means necessarily exclusive.


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## Free Christian (Mar 12, 2014)

My wife and I gather with my Mother and sister on Sundays to worship, but if for some unseen reason or other we cannot get together that day, on any other day we do so. I certainly don't feel we are sinning at all.
But is the circumstance you mention Brice a worship in place of Sunday, such as Seventh Day Adventists or similar? Other than that I don't see a real problem.
Like for example essential service workers, police, doctors, armed forces, where they have no control over their time as such so would have a meeting that would out of necessity be on another day so they could worship the Lord that week.


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## Gloria Dei (Mar 12, 2014)

Brett, I was not referring to a service in place of the Lord's Day service. I was referring to Wednesday worship services apart from congregational worship on the Sabbath.


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## Dearly Bought (Mar 12, 2014)

I don't know why additional gathered worship on weekdays would be sinful, as long as it is not intended to replace Sabbath worship. I would certainly argue that church members should not feel compelled to attend upon such worship as they should with Sabbath worship.


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## Free Christian (Mar 12, 2014)

Hi Brice, then I don't see it as a problem. 


Dearly Bought said:


> I would certainly argue that church members should not feel compelled to attend upon such worship as they should with Sabbath worship.


 Agree.


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## TylerRay (Mar 12, 2014)

Gloria Dei said:


> I know that at some churches, there are Wednesday night services for middle school or high school. Would this "worship" be considered sin before God because it is a people gathered together for worship outside of the appointed time? (ie the Sabbath)



In short, yes. God appoints the times of worship as well as the actions of worship.

One way to think of it is in terms of a "call to worship." When a minister calls the congregation into public worship, he is calling them on God's behalf. God calls his church to worship him on the Lord's Day. What authority does a minister have to call the congregation into public worship without God's sanction, i. e., on another day of the week?

That's why (historically, at least) most churches do not have a call to worship for the their midweek meetings. Oftentimes these meetings are called prayer meetings, and are distinguished from worship services.

Certain things which are elements of worship are not strictly bound to public worship. These include prayer, preaching, and the singing of Psalms. A group can meet for these activities at any time without it being a public worship service.


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## TylerRay (Mar 12, 2014)

Dearly Bought said:


> I don't know why additional gathered worship on weekdays would be sinful, as long as it is not intended to replace Sabbath worship. I would certainly argue that church members should not feel compelled to attend upon such worship as they should with Sabbath worship.



Hi, Bryan! I think this is the first time we've interacted, though I've enjoyed your posts in the past.

The problem with your statement is that worship services are done in response to the call to worship that Christ issues. If there are true worship services (i. e., _called_ services) outside of the Lord's day, then it is sinful for His people not to respond to that call.


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## Gloria Dei (Mar 12, 2014)

Define a "call to worship". Is it a formal beginning of a worship service, or a recognition of what has already come to pass due to the congregation coming together for such?


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## TylerRay (Mar 12, 2014)

Gloria Dei said:


> Define a "call to worship". Is it a formal beginning of a worship service, or a recognition of what has already come to pass due to the congregation coming together for such?



I know our elders could probably give a better answer, but here goes: The call to worship is Christ's call, through his minister, of the people into public worship.

Before called, the people are not in public worship. Once called, they are assembled as a spiritual temple and priesthood to offer sacrifices of praise and thanksgiving to God, and to hear the voice of God.


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## Dearly Bought (Mar 12, 2014)

Mr. Ray, I also have enjoyed your posts in the past and appreciate the opportunity to converse. I would like to give your viewpoint due consideration, but I am finding it quite difficult to locate any materials discussing the matter. Would you have any references bearing out the historical claim regarding the use of a call to worship on the Sabbath alone? Also, might you recommend any Presbyterian works which speak of this understanding of public worship?


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## Convinced (Mar 13, 2014)

TylerRay said:


> Gloria Dei said:
> 
> 
> > I know that at some churches, there are Wednesday night services for middle school or high school. Would this "worship" be considered sin before God because it is a people gathered together for worship outside of the appointed time? (ie the Sabbath)
> ...


I cannot come up with a doctrine from the Bible that would make it a sin to worship God at any time. Is there some scripture that says this? So far I have not seen any scripture references to support this claim.


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## MW (Mar 13, 2014)

George Gillespie offers some useful categories for thinking through week-day services in his work against the English Popish Ceremonies.

Designation or deputation is when a man appoints a thing for such an use, still reserving power and right to put it to another use if he please; so the church appoints times and hours for preaching upon the week-days, yet reserving power to employ those times otherwise, when she shall think fit. Dedication is when a man so devotes a thing to some pious or civil use, that he denudes himself to all right and title which thereafter he might claim unto it, as when a man dedicates a sum of money for the building of an exchange, a judgment-hall, etc., or a parcel of ground for a church, a churchyard, a glebe, a school, an hospital, he can no longer claim right to the dedicated thing. Sanctification is the setting apart of a thing for a holy and religious use, in such sort that hereafter it may be put to no other use (Prov. 20:25). Now whereas times set apart for ordinary and weekly preaching, are only designed by the church for this end and purpose, so that they are not holy, but only for the present they are applied to an holy use; neither is the worship appointed as convenient or beseeming for those times, but the times are appointed as convenient for the worship.


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## Gloria Dei (Mar 13, 2014)

Thank you Rev. Winzer: that solution definitely makes sense.


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## Dearly Bought (Mar 13, 2014)

Rev. Winzer, that is quite helpful. Do you have a page or section reference for that?


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## MW (Mar 13, 2014)

Bryan, that can be found in part 3, chap. 1, sect. 7. P. 136 of the Naphtali Press edition. Pp. 61-62 of the 19 cent. ed. in the Works.


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## TylerRay (Mar 16, 2014)

Dearly Bought said:


> Mr. Ray, I also have enjoyed your posts in the past and appreciate the opportunity to converse. I would like to give your viewpoint due consideration, but I am finding it quite difficult to locate any materials discussing the matter. Would you have any references bearing out the historical claim regarding the use of a call to worship on the Sabbath alone? Also, might you recommend any Presbyterian works which speak of this understanding of public worship?



Bryan,

I don't remember just where I got the "call to worship" portion from, and I'm kind of pressed for time these days. Permit me to give a couple of quotes from Bannerman.

"... while natural reason dictates the duty of employing a certain proportion of our time in the worship of God, the question of _when_ and _how often_ the duty is to be discharged is one that belongs to God to determine. The length of time to be set apart for the duty and the frequency of its return, are matters of positive appointment connected with His own worship, which, like other positive provisions for it, remain for God and not for man to dictate. We believe that the precise length of time to be set apart for ordinary worship, and also the interval between the recurrence of such seasons, have been fixed by God in that septenary division of time which He instituted for man in the beginning, and in the arbitrary singling out of one whole day in seven to be a holy Sabbath to Himself." _p. 393_

"In reference to the ordinance of the Sabbath as the time marked out by God Himself for worship, it is the office of the church, just as in regard to every other Divine ordinance, simply to administer the appointment of its Divine Head, to accept of it in all its fulness, integrity, and simplicity, as it comes from His hands, and to carry it into effect for the purposes He has designed by it, without addition or alteration by ecclesiastical authority." _p.406_

By the way, I'm seven years your junior; no need to call me Mr. Ray. You can call me "boy" or "kid," if you like.


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## jwithnell (Mar 16, 2014)

The puritans held worship services in many different contexts such as commencement services at the beginning of college years, elections days, etc. I'd love additional times to worship! But you can encounter difficulty about requiring people to attend. In independent Baptist circles, I encountered this as a big part of the legalism. A description of "healthy Christian living" always included a run-down of attending Sunday school, worship on Sunday morning, Sunday evening and Wednesday night and participation in a "visitation night."


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## Peairtach (Mar 17, 2014)

The fact that the Sabbath was peculiarly set apart for rest and worship did not entail the understanding that Adam would not worship during the week, any more than that it entailed the understanding that he would not rest during the week.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## TylerRay (Mar 17, 2014)

I, too, would love to hear more preaching and sing more Psalms with my brothers and sisters during the week, and these things are perfectly lawful. What is not lawful is having a worship service at any time during the week. It would have been equally unlawful for the Jews to have offered their temple sacrifices on any day they pleased.


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## Gloria Dei (Mar 19, 2014)

Peairtach said:


> The fact that the Sabbath was peculiarly set apart for rest and worship did not entail the understanding that Adam would not worship during the week, any more than that it entailed the understanding that he would not rest during the week.
> 
> Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2



I do understand that it does not mean that Adam would not worship during the week (ie private and family worship), but what of corporate services outside of the Sabbath?


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