# List of Pro-FV Churches?



## travis

Okay, I know of the CREC churches, but can we start a list of known Pro-FV churches in the OPC and PCA and other denominations?

This is mainly out of curiosity to see how wide spread the doctrine is, I guess.


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## Reformed Covenanter

travis said:


> Okay, I know of the CREC churches, but can we start a list of known Pro-FV churches in the OPC and PCA and other denominations?
> 
> This is mainly out of curiosity to see how wide spread the doctrine is, I guess.




That is an interesting question. Does anyone know of any Federal Visionists outside the United States and Canada?


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## elnwood

To start with ... Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church (PCA) in Monroe, LA.
Auburn Avenue Presbyterian Church - Monroe, Louisiana


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## travis

I am in Houston and am pretty sure that none of the PCA churches in our area would be considered pro-FV. I know that some have remained silent on the issue, but none actively teach the doctrine.

Here is one... Horne and Meyer's church
Providence Reformed Presbyterian Church (PCA), St. Louis, Missouri.


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## Kevin

I don't like the idea of making a list of "pro-FV" churches. Who decides what defines 'pro"? 

I have heard some condemned because they did not object with enough enthusiasm to the latest bad guy. Criticise a doctrine all you want. Refute it with the scripture and confessions. Rebuke those that you have authority/responsibility over/for. By all means argue with conviction and passion, but to make up a list of sympathizers. I say no. Bad idea.


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## travis

Cool, I can understand that. Like I said, it was more out of curiosity than anything.


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## AV1611

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Does anyone know of any Federal Visionists outside the United States and Canada?



There is a little group at Oak Hill where David Field lectures.


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## Bladestunner316

There is one in Kirkland,Wa there called Trinity church I think.


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## VictorBravo

Bladestunner316 said:


> There is one in Kirkland,Wa there called Trinity church I think.



Yes, there is a Trinity Church in Kirkland, whose old website said it was a charter member of the CREC.

But it is *not to be confused *with our sister church: Trinity Reformed Baptist Church, also in Kirkland. It's too bad the usurpers took the same name.


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## Bladestunner316

Yes I didnt mean to confues If I did


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## VictorBravo

Bladestunner316 said:


> Yes I didnt mean to confues If I did



Nate, I knew you weren't confused, but some of the locals are.


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## Romans922

I am going to go out on a limb here and say: 

Christ Church (Moscow, ID) CREC
Trinity Reformed Church (Moscow, ID) CREC
Christ Reformed Church (Meeker, CO) CREC
Trinity Covenant Church (Witchita, KS) CREC
Reformation Covenant Church of Southern Oregon (Oregon City, OR) CREC
Trinity Presbyterian Church (Birmingham, AL) CREC
Grace Covenant Church (Nacogdoches, TX) CREC
Mitaka Evangelical Church (Nakamachi, Musashino-shi, Tokyo, Japan) CREC


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## ZackF

Romans922 said:


> I am going to go out on a limb here and say:
> 
> Christ Church (Moscow, ID) CREC
> Trinity Reformed Church (Moscow, ID) CREC
> Christ Reformed Church (Meeker, CO) CREC
> Trinity Covenant Church (Witchita, KS) CREC
> Reformation Covenant Church of Southern Oregon (Oregon City, OR) CREC
> Trinity Presbyterian Church (Birmingham, AL) CREC
> Grace Covenant Church (Nacogdoches, TX) CREC
> Mitaka Evangelical Church (Nakamachi, Musashino-shi, Tokyo, Japan) CREC




There is a FV sympathetic church here in the Greater Wichita area. I don't know the name but I think it is CREC affiliated.


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## Romans922

It might be the one I listed, but I am pretty sure the one I listed is Pro-FV not JUST sympathetic. Don't quote me on it though.


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## ZackF

Romans922 said:


> It might be the one I listed, but I am pretty sure the one I listed is Pro-FV not JUST sympathetic. Don't quote me on it though.



Yeah but you didn't spell Wichita correctly.


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## Romans922

What you say is correct


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## clstamper

Is there a list of pro-FV congregations that also pray imprecatory prayers (curses) against churches and others who criticize them? I am not making this up. It happens.


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## travis

Romans922 said:


> I am going to go out on a limb here and say:
> 
> Christ Church (Moscow, ID) CREC
> Trinity Reformed Church (Moscow, ID) CREC
> Christ Reformed Church (Meeker, CO) CREC
> Trinity Covenant Church (Witchita, KS) CREC
> Reformation Covenant Church of Southern Oregon (Oregon City, OR) CREC
> Trinity Presbyterian Church (Birmingham, AL) CREC
> Grace Covenant Church (Nacogdoches, TX) CREC
> Mitaka Evangelical Church (Nakamachi, Musashino-shi, Tokyo, Japan) CREC





> Okay, I know of the CREC churches, but can we start a list of known Pro-FV churches in the OPC and PCA and other denominations?



Thanks Andrew


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## Romans922

There are many and/or most PCA churches in the St. Louis area who at least sympathetic to FV. I know of one in particular that is not sympathetic (Heritage Presbyterian Church).


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## Reformed Covenanter

Has the Federal Vision got any adherents in the RPCNA?


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## clstamper

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Has the Federal Vision got any adherents in the RPCNA?



Anthony Cowley, who left the denomination, is the only person I can think of. The FV controversy started in the RP, because it hosted Norman Shepherd's controversial lectures, but I don't think it took root there.


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## RamistThomist

This almost seems like a Mafia hit list.


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## Stephen

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Has the Federal Vision got any adherents in the RPCNA?



No, the RPCNA does not seem to be affected by this heresy. I would add to the list the following: Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York, Covenant PCA in Sulphur, Louisiana, and John Knox PCA in Ruston, Louisiana.


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## Reformed Covenanter

Stephen said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has the Federal Vision got any adherents in the RPCNA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the RPCNA does not seem to be affected by this heresy. I would add to the list the following: Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York, Covenant PCA in Sulphur, Louisiana, and John Knox PCA in Ruston, Louisiana.
Click to expand...


Glad to hear this.


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## puritan lad

> Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York


Interesting. To my knowledge, the OPC has laid down the gauntlet stating that any minister who supported FV would be brought up on charges, and defrocked if found guilty.

Am I correct on this?


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## Pilgrim

puritan lad said:


> Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. To my knowledge, the OPC has laid down the gauntlet stating that any minister who supported FV would be brought up on charges, and defrocked if found guilty.
> 
> Am I correct on this?
Click to expand...


Yes and no. There was the Justification report that condemned the FV and the NPP, but it carries no constitutional force and did nothing other than register the GA's views on the subject generally. Bringing charges is still necessary, as it is in the PCA following their similar report.


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## Reformed Covenanter

Pilgrim said:


> puritan lad said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. To my knowledge, the OPC has laid down the gauntlet stating that any minister who supported FV would be brought up on charges, and defrocked if found guilty.
> 
> Am I correct on this?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes and no. There was the Justification report that condemned the FV and the NPP, but it carries no constitutional force and did nothing other than register the GA's views on the subject generally. Bringing charges is still necessary, as it is in the PCA following their similar report.
Click to expand...


Why won't the OPC discipline those who maintain these heresies?


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## Pilgrim

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Pilgrim said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> puritan lad said:
> 
> 
> 
> Interesting. To my knowledge, the OPC has laid down the gauntlet stating that any minister who supported FV would be brought up on charges, and defrocked if found guilty.
> 
> Am I correct on this?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes and no. There was the Justification report that condemned the FV and the NPP, but it carries no constitutional force and did nothing other than register the GA's views on the subject generally. Bringing charges is still necessary, as it is in the PCA following their similar report.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Why won't the OPC discipline those who maintain these heresies?
Click to expand...


If you know of any officers in the OPC who "maintains these heresies" why not contact the Stated Clerk of their Presbytery?


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## RamistThomist

Stephen said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has the Federal Vision got any adherents in the RPCNA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the RPCNA does not seem to be affected by this heresy. I would add to the list the following: Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York, Covenant PCA in Sulphur, Louisiana, and John Knox PCA in Ruston, Louisiana.
Click to expand...


John Knox is *not* FV. That is where I attend. Now, true, they didn't attack and criticize "the wrong guys" with enough vigor and rage, so they are labeled "soft on FV." But no, they are not FV.


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## Kevin

Spear Dane said:


> Stephen said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> 
> Has the Federal Vision got any adherents in the RPCNA?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No, the RPCNA does not seem to be affected by this heresy. I would add to the list the following: Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York, Covenant PCA in Sulphur, Louisiana, and John Knox PCA in Ruston, Louisiana.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> John Knox is *not* FV. That is where I attend. Now, true, they didn't attack and criticize "the wrong guys" with enough vigor and rage, so they are labeled "soft on FV." But no, they are not FV.
Click to expand...


This is my concern with a project like this. A list is made up and published, with an implied encouragement to contact the appropriate officials to lay charges. However the "list" is only as good as the information provided. As we all just saw it is not that good.

By all means, confront or debate those in you OWN church/presbytry but to go outside is not a good idea. To my way of thinking you are disturbing the peace and purity of the church, even if you have the proper motives & the correct target, if you are getting involved in someone elses problem.


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## Romans922

Kevin said:


> Spear Dane said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stephen said:
> 
> 
> 
> No, the RPCNA does not seem to be affected by this heresy. I would add to the list the following: Calvary OPC in Schenectady, New York, Covenant PCA in Sulphur, Louisiana, and John Knox PCA in Ruston, Louisiana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Knox is *not* FV. That is where I attend. Now, true, they didn't attack and criticize "the wrong guys" with enough vigor and rage, so they are labeled "soft on FV." But no, they are not FV.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is my concern with a project like this. A list is made up and published, with an implied encouragement to contact the appropriate officials to lay charges. However the "list" is only as good as the information provided. As we all just saw it is not that good.
> 
> By all means, confront or debate those in you OWN church/presbytry but to go outside is not a good idea. To my way of thinking you are disturbing the peace and purity of the church, even if you have the proper motives & the correct target, if you are getting involved in someone elses problem.
Click to expand...


So are you saying that because I am in MVP that I shouldn't say that Mark Horne or Jeff Meyers are FV when clearly they are because they are in a different presbytery (Missouri Presbytery)?


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## Kevin

No.


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## RamistThomist

Romans922 said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Spear Dane said:
> 
> 
> 
> John Knox is *not* FV. That is where I attend. Now, true, they didn't attack and criticize "the wrong guys" with enough vigor and rage, so they are labeled "soft on FV." But no, they are not FV.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is my concern with a project like this. A list is made up and published, with an implied encouragement to contact the appropriate officials to lay charges. However the "list" is only as good as the information provided. As we all just saw it is not that good.
> 
> By all means, confront or debate those in you OWN church/presbytry but to go outside is not a good idea. To my way of thinking you are disturbing the peace and purity of the church, even if you have the proper motives & the correct target, if you are getting involved in someone elses problem.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So are you saying that because I am in MVP that I shouldn't say that Mark Horne or Jeff Meyers are FV when clearly they are because they are in a different presbytery (Missouri Presbytery)?
Click to expand...


Horne is a different matter since he is published in _The Federal Vision_. But as I demonstrated, someone said John Knox PCA is FV. I said it was not. I figured my information was better than theirs because I...well...I go to that church. I have listened to the pastor say that "Christ has accomplished everything for you," and other Reformation-esque statements. Of course, he could "tricking" me with a FV bait-and-switch, but I doubt it.

This list sounds like a Mafia-hit list. Aside from several obvious churches, much of the information is hearsay and suspect and in order to maintain a degree of credibility, this thread probably should be closed down. If you have any questions about the orthodoxy of such and such church, just email that pastor.


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## Me Died Blue

Spear Dane said:


> This list sounds like a Mafia-hit list. Aside from several obvious churches, much of the information is hearsay and suspect and in order to maintain a degree of credibility, this thread probably should be closed down. If you have any questions about the orthodoxy of such and such church, just email that pastor.



Concur.


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