# Constant Use of Sarcasm & Cynicism as Weapons of Warfare



## jw (Sep 3, 2010)

With the explosive influence of the internet and, more particularly, YouTube, as well as the immediate access to the upload of videos, etc. has come the pervasive influx of videos criticizing (rightly so) poor theology, false teachers, etc. I've been thinking about this and wonder if the constant barrage of these things is harmful to our cause (insofar as amount and frequency goes, not the altogether existence thereof). 

Do you think orthodox (little _o_) Christians are going overboard with this to such a point that much is left out pertaining to the "whole picture" of what _good_ theology ought to be?

I must confess my great disdain for the teaching of false teachers, particularly the doctrines that seem to contain 99% truth. It reminds me of John Murray's statement, "_At the point of divergence the difference between right and wrong, between truth and falsehood, is not a chasm but a razor’s edge._" I certainly assert that we should be guarded against such teachings, etc. but I wonder if the _constant_ use of Sarcasm & Cynicism is the best way. There are certainly appropriate times and uses for these things, but when is _too much_? 

Many times, these videos or other media of sarcasm posed to make fun of bad teaching, etc. are left open ended, without commentary as to:

1. What the problems with the teaching are.
2. How to address/resolve said problems.

More often than not, it _seems_ they are "headed up," not by officers of the church, but by zealous young layfolk who're still primarily theologically "wet behind the ears," and while they're not saying anything _wrong_, they're not really exhausting _all that is necessary_ in addressing error, etc. Ergo, they leave much to be considered out and much to be assumed by folks watching/reading/listening to their critiques. 

Do you think orthodox (little _o_) Christians are going overboard with this to such a point that our compassionate senses toward those caught up in bad theology are dulled?

Does this constant reception of this kind of media lessen our true Christian concern for those professing Christians who are hoodwinked into this kind of thinking? Instead of seeing them (not the teachers of nonsense, mind you, but their sheepish followers) as victims who need help, and as potential Christian brothers/sisters, do we develop an good vs evil process of thought that's not necessarily the case?

I'm not trying to make an assertive case here, just asking some questions "out loud." I'm curious as to your thoughts on the matter and thought it might be a good discussion.


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## jjraby (Sep 3, 2010)

do you have a link of an example of the type of video sarcasm or critique your talking about?


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## Notthemama1984 (Sep 3, 2010)

This reminds me of Gary North. His commentents are so over the top that I am turned off and I can only imagine what the other side feels like.


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## Jack K (Sep 3, 2010)

I can't comment on the video aspect of this since I don't see many of those. But, yes, the culture is cynical and sarcastic and we have learned this behavior. We ought to hold back more often than we do.

*Sarcasm* leaves no room for acknowledging that those we disagree with do some things right, even as we confront what they do wrong. It is inherently not humble.

*Cynicism* is quick to assume that those we disagree with are wrong about anything and everything, including their motives. It is inherently not hopeful.

Neither of these is conducive to persuasive discussion that actually helps helps the church overcome error, nor is it loving. It may sometimes protect our little faithful flock from falling into traps in the larger church, but it shows disregard for others who may already be trapped in error and could be helped by a more civil discussion of the issues. We who have faith in Christ ought to be, as a default way of relating to those we disagree with, both humble and hopeful.

Now, sometimes sarcasm especially is necessary. Strong words that bite are a proper response to strong evil that kills. But we must use this tactic with discretion and intentionality, not flippantly.


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## au5t1n (Sep 3, 2010)

I thought of Wretched Radio as soon as I read the OP. I share your feelings.


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## Augusta (Sep 3, 2010)

When I was drawn to the doctrines of grace I went through stages. One of the first was the same attitude as Todd Friel, one of "how can these people be so blind?" What is so ironic is that the people saying this and having this attitude, myself included, are forgetting that they were also one of those blind people and it is only by the grace of God that they now see. It took some humbling and maturing in Christ to calm me down. People who have gone through that experience are very volatile and having these mediums at hand will inevitably produce and keep producing videos like that. It would be a good thing if there were some good Pastoral videos put out there to balance things.

---------- Post added at 10:17 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:13 AM ----------

More to the point in the OP, I don't think they are so much weapons as reactions. They can be weapons in the proper hands and effective ones. I think of some of James White's videos which are more balanced. Again, it would be a good thing if someone countered some of this stuff. Hint hint.


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## jwithnell (Sep 3, 2010)

I've thought about this in a number of venues, including politics.


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## SemperEruditio (Sep 3, 2010)

Reeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaaaaaaallllllllly??????


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## Philip (Sep 3, 2010)

We need to note that sarcasm has a long history in the reformed tradition, going back to Luther and his satirical crossfire with Erasmus. We also need to note that he and Erasmus shared a mutual admiration on several issues, they just ended in different places.

The fact of the matter is that we need to be humble and we need to recognize that we're not all right either. We're sinners too and we get things wrong. I'm going to be held accountable for wrong beliefs on the day of judgment as much as the next man. The principle of charity is one that we (and especially I) need to exercise constantly.

I do not think that cynicism is ever justified---I have to pray for God to rid me of a cynical attitude that sees the worst in others. If we as reformed folks err, let us err on the side of being overly gracious, not in being overly cynical. This is not to say that we should go overboard, but that we should consider that maybe our opposition is as honest in conviction as we believe ourselves to be (by the way, I consider Tim Keller to be a model of this attitude). A wise man once said that it is sometimes more important to be rightly related than to be right---wisdom is in knowing where to draw that line.

In short, sarcasm can be justified if it is gentle and loving (I often cringe at Luther) rather than biting. Cynicism is a sin issue in every case I can think of.


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## Mushroom (Sep 3, 2010)

I agree that it can go overboard, but I have to say that is generally subjective, and from all of the disdain and mindless rejection of the truth that young reformed Christians have to endure from their americhurch evanjellyfish or unbelieving peers, a certain amount of comic relief is healthy. And a lot of it is hilariously funny.


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## Andres (Sep 3, 2010)

my pastor once explained to me that the reason he rarely teaches specifically against bad theology or feels the need to point it out is because if he focuses mostly on good, solid theology and doctrine, then his flock will be apt to recognize bad theology/doctrine when we see it. 
Now I am not saying there is never a time or place to point out heresy or false doctrine, but I think that the focus could better be on right doctrine. That will take care of knowing both bad and good.


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 3, 2010)

Andres said:


> my pastor once explained to me that the reason he rarely teaches specifically against bad theology or feels the need to point it out is because if he focuses mostly on good, solid theology and doctrine, then his flock will be apt to recognize bad theology/doctrine when we see it.
> Now I am not saying there is never a time or place to point out heresy or false doctrine, but I think that the focus could better be on right doctrine. That will take care of knowing both bad and good.


 
I think both are equally important. Without preaching against false doctrine directly, it is less likely that people will grasp the truth itself, let alone guard themselves from the errors. There is a reason why all the great creeds of the church came in response to error. It is human nature that we understand and consider something more fully when presented with the alternative. This is tremendously unpopular in our culture, but that does not make it any less vital to preach clearly against error.


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## Andres (Sep 3, 2010)

Willem van Oranje said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > my pastor once explained to me that the reason he rarely teaches specifically against bad theology or feels the need to point it out is because if he focuses mostly on good, solid theology and doctrine, then his flock will be apt to recognize bad theology/doctrine when we see it.
> ...


 
yes, we are in agreement that preaching against error is most neccessary, but the question becomes how should this be done? I understand Josh's OP as pointing out that perhaps the best way to preach against error is not to say, "here's 5 reasons Arminianism is wrong" in some condescending tone or sarcastic video but instead to preach/teach on 5 biblical tenets of Calvinism. Both would refute error, but the latter is preferable in my opinion.


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 3, 2010)

Andres said:


> Willem van Oranje said:
> 
> 
> > Andres said:
> ...


 

I realize that I was not actually addressing the OP. I'm not advocating sarcasm or prideful cynicism. I'm just saying that you're not preaching against error unless you mention the errors by name and explain why they are wrong. And you also are not helping the listener to understand the truth as much as you could. It's much easier to understand the five points of Calvinism when the five points of the Remonstrandts are explained and systematically refuted.


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## Andres (Sep 3, 2010)

Willem van Oranje said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > Willem van Oranje said:
> ...


 
I don't believe I would agree with you here. I think it's possible to preach against error by simply expounding truth.


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## Steve Curtis (Sep 3, 2010)

An interesting analogy...
A number of years ago, I knew a teller at a bank who said that she was taught to identify counterfeit money by counting stacks and stacks of the real thing. That's it. She was not trained to examine each bill or test them with that little felt tip gizmo they use these days. Just get to know the real really well and the fake will be obvious.
By contrast, a teller I spoke with a few months ago mentioned that she was in fact trained to know what the fakes looked like because they (the counterfeiters) have mastered the feel in some instances.
Not sure exactly how this works out, but it seems that there is a time when saturation in truth exposes falsity and there is a time when one must be informed about the tests for error.


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## Puritan Sailor (Sep 3, 2010)

Constant sarcasm and cynicism is what the Proverbs call "scoffing." It's a form of pride and self-righteousness because you have the truth (or think you do) and others don't. Occasional sarcasm can be helpful in good humor, even Jesus did that. But that was not the overiding tone of his preaching. Usually someone who is always scoffing is just a Pharisee. Beware....


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## Gloria (Sep 3, 2010)

Joshua said:


> I confess, J.R., I'm not inclined to reference any videos, etc. because they have exposure enough. Nevertheless, they've been linked to here on the PB, etc. and one can go on YouTube and find them as well. Another particular medium might be radio and Mr. Todd Friel. While I think he's sound in doctrine (from what I've heard) there's always this sarcastic and cynical tone of the show. I do not mean to criticize him as a person, just the nature of his commentary is constantly one of incredulity, and I think that can grow weary on a person.


 
I thoroughly agree. It became difficult to listen to. So much so that I've stopped listening altogether...


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## Idelette (Sep 4, 2010)

I haven't read all of the comments yet, but I have to tell you that this is something that has really been burdening me lately! There are so many christians that I can think of right now who are constantly sarcastic, cynical, among being argumentative and in the end I think it's all very counterproductive. I really question the spirit and motivation behind what they are doing and the focus of their work. And not only on youtube, but facebook and other medias as well. It's gotten to the point (for me) where it doesn't matter how much sound theology someone has, if they can't deliver their view in a godly and loving manner than I don't want to expose myself to their teachings. It's not necessary to be sarcastic or cynical to prove a point, instead, I think humility and charity are the fruits that we should see in believers who fight for the gospel. You can see spiritual maturity in men who can debate civilly and still get their point across. I can tell you countless times when people I know have been unwilling to listen to or trust men that are constantly argumentative.....but a gracious spirit truly does open doors for discussion! Anyhow, those are just some thoughts...


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 4, 2010)

It's funny that every time this topic arises it is pointed out that Luther and Calvin used strong polemics or pointed out the absurdity of their opponents.

But they were also scholars of the highest order and didn't retreat behind devices and simply loft insults where their knowledge on an issue stopped.

I think reducing an opponent's position to absurdity is useful but you had better understand your own and his position well enough to do so.

I also agree that there are some who take pride in theological knowledge. Among them I count myself the chief of sinners but I am increasingly aware of my own sin and need to beat the breast for the Lord to have mercy on me, a sinner. What disturbs me about those that, with brazen forehead, mock or belittle others is their indignation when the tone of their polemics is challenged.


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## christiana (Sep 4, 2010)

With so many vulnerable people out there, including new believers, it is important to point out the error, naming names as Paul did himself. It isnt necessary to harp on error but to point it out in order to increase discernment. I find it unbelievable how the throngs gather each week at a huge seeker sensitive church in this area and there have been times when our pastor does mention both the name and the error and the danger of listening to such!


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## jayce475 (Sep 4, 2010)

Idelette said:


> I haven't read all of the comments yet, but I have to tell you that this is something that has really been burdening me lately! There are so many christians that I can think of right now who are constantly sarcastic, cynical, among being argumentative and in the end I think it's all very counterproductive. I really question the spirit and motivation behind what they are doing and the focus of their work. And not only on youtube, but facebook and other medias as well. It's gotten to the point (for me) where it doesn't matter how much sound theology someone has, if they can't deliver their view in a godly and loving manner than I don't want to expose myself to their teachings. It's not necessary to be sarcastic or cynical to prove a point, instead, I think humility and charity are the fruits that we should see in believers who fight for the gospel. You can see spiritual maturity in men who can debate civilly and still get their point across. I can tell you countless times when people I know have been unwilling to listen to or trust men that are constantly argumentative.....but a gracious spirit truly does open doors for discussion! Anyhow, those are just some thoughts...


 
This reminds me of what my then leaders were saying to me when I was about to leave my former Arminian charismatic church, trying their best to persuade me against my Calvinism. "You see, Calvinism is false because you can just see it from the spirit these Calvinists show, especially those you see on the internet." Convinced of the doctrines of grace, I was bemused and saddened at the same time. Looking back, no longer as bemused as before, but still sad nonetheless.


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## EricP (Sep 4, 2010)

For what little it's probably worth, long before I was saved I was raised in a family where sarcasm and cynicism were basically my brother's and my daily diet. As I aged and had my own family, I made as strong an effort as I could to *NOT* be that way with my wife and children (sadly, my brother didn't have as much success). Having seen and lived both with and without sarcasm/cynicism, I see both as poorly camouflaged anger masquerading as discussion; as such they often are used to stop or hinder conversation rather than promote it. As such, they *are* rhetorical techniques, but ones that tend to tear down rather than build up. The fact that they have been used by church fathers is no more a recommendation for them than the deceptions of the Egyptian midwives is a recommendation for lying. The fact that they are seen on You Tube and other forms of Internet communication is really no surprise, since so much of modern electronic communication is "train of thought" and immediate reaction rather than deeply thought (everywhere BUT the PB, of course!), as well as an effort to gain rapid notoriety or (in You Tube's case) revulsion.
As reformed Christians, it would be well to try to promote and encourage dialogue rather than try to highlight our own cleverness and attempts at wit.


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## Theoretical (Sep 4, 2010)

What I see happen a lot is that we're too prone to address ignorant or fairly weak laity as though they're a theologian who's blindly deceiving the Church. So we whip out the guns that are only appropriate for that kind of person or the openly defiant of the truth and end up discouraging and pushing them away. There's a season for an aggressive tone and a season for gentleness.

Also, even someone aggressively opposed to theological truth may need honey not sharpness if the cause of that aggression was a caricature of right theology. Gentle, winsome, and irenic theological approach might be best for them. Conversely, the apathetic or the deliberately undiscerning may need sharp shocks no matter how nice and agreeing they might be. 

There's also a difference between being passionate for the truth and simply being a haughty jerk with a chip on his/her shoulder.



> As reformed Christians, it would be well to try to promote and encourage dialogue rather than try to highlight our own cleverness and attempts at wit.


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 4, 2010)

jayce475 said:


> Idelette said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't read all of the comments yet, but I have to tell you that this is something that has really been burdening me lately! There are so many christians that I can think of right now who are constantly sarcastic, cynical, among being argumentative and in the end I think it's all very counterproductive. I really question the spirit and motivation behind what they are doing and the focus of their work. And not only on youtube, but facebook and other medias as well. It's gotten to the point (for me) where it doesn't matter how much sound theology someone has, if they can't deliver their view in a godly and loving manner than I don't want to expose myself to their teachings. It's not necessary to be sarcastic or cynical to prove a point, instead, I think humility and charity are the fruits that we should see in believers who fight for the gospel. You can see spiritual maturity in men who can debate civilly and still get their point across. I can tell you countless times when people I know have been unwilling to listen to or trust men that are constantly argumentative.....but a gracious spirit truly does open doors for discussion! Anyhow, those are just some thoughts...
> ...


 
While Calvinists have no corner on being rude and painting their opponents as outside the pale, I'm inclined to believe that those that understand Grace are to be held to the highest standard.

A few years ago, I was on a Pastoral Search committee where a Baptist Church was trying to call men from the Founders List. A person joined the committee with the not so hidden intent of hijacking any application that even hinted at a Reformed soteriology. I had labored for years in that congregation at simply teaching the Scriptures plainly about the Gospel of Grace and avoiding any buzzwords that would close people down to the marvelous news of God's undeserved favor. Suddenly, however, the person was circulating articles that painted Calvinists as only interested in dividing Churches and denying that whoever wills come.

Thankfully, the integrity of my ministry to others in that Church spoke for itself (though I had much sin, I repented often and learned a lot about how to treat others). A Pastor who was a graduate from RTS was elected and the Church is doing well today - preaching the Word in a country where it is very rare to find such men.

That all said, it is interesting as I've most recently become acutely aware of every man's need to approach the Gospel with empty hand and contrite heart. There's more or less a Pharisee in each of us. Some thank God in their prayers that they are not like Arminians who are arrogant and believe salvation depends on them while others thank God that they are not like Calvinists who are arrogant about the knowledge of the things of God that have been granted them.

Piety's wisdom demands of each of us that we go before God realizing He is a merciful Savior to us. There is no place for arrogance for a man who understands the gulf that exists between himself and a holy God. I teach against destructive doctrines out of a love for men born in my heart by a God who has been so condescending to me. I fail at it often but God is gracious and patient and I can be not otherwise.


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## Kim G (Sep 4, 2010)

Would Elijah on Mt. Carmel, when he mocks the prophets of Baal, be a good example of effective sarcasm?


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