# 1 Samuel 18: was the apparition really Samuel?



## Tim (Nov 3, 2010)

In 1 Samuel 18, Saul, in his fear, enquires of the Lord but receives no answer. His solution is to ask a woman with a "familiar spirit" to bring up Samuel from the dead.



> 1Sa 28:11 Then said the woman, Whom shall I bring up unto thee? And he said, Bring me up Samuel.





> 1Sa 28:14 And he said unto her, What form is he of? And she said, An old man cometh up; and he is covered with a mantle. And Saul perceived that it was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the ground, and bowed himself.




Saul seems convinced, but was it truly Samuel?

Matthew Henry, for one, says no. Comments?


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## Romans922 (Nov 3, 2010)

The narrator doesn't lie does he or does HE?

Bold is the narrative:



> 1Sa 28:12 *And when the woman saw Samuel, she cried with a loud voice: and the woman spake to Saul, saying,* "Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul."
> 
> 1Sa 28:15 *And Samuel said to Saul,* "Why hast thou disquieted me, to bring me up?"


The woman even seems startled when she sees 'Samuel' as if she wasn't actually expecting it to happen...


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 3, 2010)

I say 'no'. Most on the PB say 'yes', according to the survey - there is a whole thread on this here on the PB somewhere. Been done to death. Pun intended.

update - here it is: http://www.puritanboard.com/f40/1-samuel-28-witch-medium-what-spirit-did-she-bring-up-51277/


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## Tim (Nov 3, 2010)

Whoops, should have checked for a previous thread. Thanks!


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## Jack K (Nov 3, 2010)

Still worth bringing up again just so I can tell you a story...

When my son was still in kindergarten he became a voracious reader. He'd read anything, and go through it fast. I gave him a full Bible in a fairly easy version, started him at Ruth, and let him go at it. He ate it up, going thorough full chapters in a matter of a few minutes.

But my wife and I wondered if he was actually comprehending what he was "reading." Maybe he was just skimming, we thought. Well, a day or so after starting on the Bible he asked me at dinner, "Daddy, when Saul went to see the witch, was that really Samuel?"

We knew then that he was following the story, with all its nuances, very well indeed.


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## TimV (Nov 3, 2010)

Read it in this version and ask yourself if it wasn't Samuel.



> 12 And the woman saw Samuel, and cried out with a loud voice: and the woman said to Saul, Why hast thou deceived me? for thou art Saul. 13 And the king said to her, Fear not; tell me whom thou has seen. And the woman said to him, I saw gods ascending out of the earth. 14 And he said to her, What didst thou perceive? and she said to him, An upright man ascending out of the earth, and he was clothed with a mantle. And Saul knew that this was Samuel, and he stooped with his face to the earth, and did obeisance to him.15 And Samuel said, Why hast thou troubled me, that I should come up? And Saul said, I am greatly distressed, and the Philistines war against me, and God has departed from me, and no longer hearkens to me either by the hand of the prophets or by dreams: and now I have called thee to tell me what I shall do. 16 And Samuel said, Why askest thou me, whereas the Lord has departed from thee, and taken part with thy neighbour? 17 And the Lord has done to thee, as the Lord spoke by me; and the Lord will rend thy kingdom out of thy hand, and will give it to thy neighbour David. 18 because thou didst not hearken to the voice of the Lord, and didst not execute his fierce anger upon Amalec, therefore the Lord has done this thing to thee this day. 19 And the Lord shall deliver Israel with thee into the hands of the Philistines, and to-morrow thou and thy sons with thee shall fall, and the Lord shall deliver the army of Israel into the hands of the Philistines.


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 3, 2010)

I'll say what I always say, Calvin agrees with me... err, I agree with Calvin. (I like saying that  )

Not the spirit of Samuel. Calvin convinced me.


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 3, 2010)

Contra_Mundum said:


> I'll say what I always say, Calvin agrees with me... err, I agree with Calvin. (I like saying that  )
> 
> Not the spirit of Samuel. Calvin convinced me.



And I agree with Bruce. Feels good. Warm fuzzies and the like. Do I get more warm fuzzies if I go paedobaptist?


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 3, 2010)

And I agree with Jonathan, I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together? Ya warm, Fuzzy walrus.

As for the baptism Q, its helpful to remember that in the end, _*everybody*_ gets baptized.
The question for everyone is: are you in the antitype of both Moses and the ark?


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## seajayrice (Nov 3, 2010)

Why would God condescend to this witchery of Saul?


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