# Ephesians 4:12



## Romans922 (Aug 18, 2009)

NASB Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the *saints for* the work of service, to the building up of the body of Christ;

ESV Ephesians 4:12 to equip the *saints for* the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ,

GNV Ephesians 4:12 For the repairing of the *Saintes, for* the woorke of the ministerie, and for the edification of the bodie of Christ,

KJV Ephesians 4:12 For the perfecting of the *saints, for* the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:

NIV Ephesians 4:12 to prepare God's *people for* works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up

NKJ Ephesians 4:12 for the equipping of the *saints for* the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ,​What is the purpose of the apostles, prophets, evangelists, and pastors/teachers of v. 11? What is the purpose of preaching?

Is it "For the equpping of the *saints, for *the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ..."

OR "For the equipping of the *saints for* the works of service, for the edifying of the body of Christ..."


Is there a comma there or not? Are we to equip the saints for ministry/service? OR Are we to equip the saints and do the work of ministry/service?


How do we interpret, how do we exegete this passage, what is the meaning?


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## LawrenceU (Aug 18, 2009)

Either way the pastor's job is to equip the Saints. That really is the bottom line.


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## Romans922 (Aug 18, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> Either way the pastor's job is to equip the Saints. That really is the bottom line.



That is correct, but there's bigger fish to fry, like I am going to preach on this and I need to teach the text!


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## Archlute (Aug 18, 2009)

There have been a couple of essays written on this. I know that T. David Gordon, Dennis Johnson, and Steve Baugh have all weighed in (as it was part of an exchange read for senior seminar), but do not know if those essays have become widely available.

Gordon came down favoring the punctuation into three distinct phrases all related to the pastoral role, while Johnson favored the ESV's understanding. Steve Baugh was asked to evaluate their arguments in his essay, and while seeing strong points in Dr. Johnson's position ultimately sided with David Gordon.

A lot of it boils down to grammatical details that those who are not Greek students would find too obtuse and confusing for discussion (I don't remember them myself at the moment). I think my sr. seminar materials are packed away, but if I can find them I will give you the titles of those essays, and their publication info if any.


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## Christusregnat (Aug 18, 2009)

Could this be a Hebraism in which Paul refers to the same thing twice?

In other words, saints = body of Christ,

and

equipping = building up

If that is the case, then it is not two activities, but one, to be doubly emphasized.

Cheers,


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## Archlute (Aug 18, 2009)

Andrew, 

T. David Gordon's essay "'Equipping Ministry in Ephesians 4?" is located in _JETS_37 (1994): 69-78. I am sorry to say that both Dr. Johnson's and Dr. Baugh's respective essays are unpublished.

If you have some time, which doesn't seem to be the case, you could always contact them through WSC to see if they might send you something via email. I only have the essays in paper. The title of Dr. Johnson's essay is "Pastors and Teachers _Do_ Equip the Saints for Ministry: A Brief Response to T. David Gordon's Interpretation of Eph. 4:11-12". The title of Dr. Baugh's is "On Eph. 4:11-12: Dialogue with Drs. Johnson and Gordon".


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## Pergamum (Aug 18, 2009)

The letters to Philemon, the ... - Google Books

http://civitatedei.wordpress.com/2008/04/25/t-david-gordon-on-ephesians-411-12/


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Aug 18, 2009)

I prefer the NLT 2007 rendering:

_Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ. 
_
AMR


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## fredtgreco (Aug 18, 2009)

Andrew,

I've studied this in some depth (Gordon's paper is an excellent place to begin). It seems to me that there is not as much difference between the views about ministry in totality as may be implied, although there is a great deal of difference in the passage at hand.

Basically, Gordon sees the "work of ministry" ( [FONT=&quot]ἔργον διακονίας[/FONT]) as being Word and Sacrament, and hence the prerogative of the minister. But that does not mean that Gordon (and others) would see works of service as not being part of the laity's responsibility. On the other hand, those who see [FONT=&quot]ἔργον διακονίας[/FONT] as "works of service" (almost diaconal) see the text speaking of the purview of the laity.

It would appear to me that both concepts are correct - the ministry of Word and Sacrament (narrowly defined, as by Gordon) is the responsibility of the minister, and at the same time, the people are to be involved in serving one another and their King.

I hope that helps some in your sermon prep.


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## fredtgreco (Aug 18, 2009)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> I prefer the NLT 2007 rendering:
> 
> _Their responsibility is to equip God’s people to do his work and build up the church, the body of Christ.
> _
> AMR



I disagree. The NLT butchers the text, importing words that are nowhere in the text ("church" "responsibility") and leaving out concepts as well ("saints" "ministry/service") that are key to the text. It is not just a translation, but a bad interpolation.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Aug 19, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> Ask Mr. Religion said:
> 
> 
> > I prefer the NLT 2007 rendering:
> ...


"God's people" are not "saints"? The "body of Christ" is not "the church"?

Verse 11 describes individuals given gifts for the church. They are so appointed these gifts for two reasons: equip God's people, the saints to do his work (service!) and to build up the church, the body of Christ.

To what end? verse 13 - "This will continue until we all come to such unity in our faith and knowledge of God’s Son that we will be mature in the Lord, measuring up to the full and complete standard of Christ."

You may not like the translation, but we both end up at the same place. And without fretting over comma placement. 

AMR


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