# Book 3, Chapter 21-24 of Calvin's Institutes



## Authorised (Jun 15, 2004)

I read this portion of Calvin last night before going to sleep at 4 a.m. 


What was bothering me is that Calvin teaches that God decreed that the reprobate would be sinful, yet goes on to say later that the reprobate bring the destruction upon themselves. He also states that God ordained the fall of man into sin not by mere permission, but that God decreed and ordained the fall. Yet also I find he believes that God contemplated the reprobate as sinless before he committed them to be "doomed from the womb." 

So I guess he was a supralapsarian. What kept me up last night was this: 

If God is the author of sin, as Calvin seems to say, how is that not an indictment on His character?


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## Irishcat922 (Jun 15, 2004)

The Westminster Confession of Faith puts it this way.
Chapter III 
Of God's Eternal Decree 

1. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeable ordain whatsoever comes to pass;(1) yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,(2)nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.(3)

Scripture Proof (1)
EAV Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained1 an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel2 of his own will:
EAV Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
EAV Heb 6:17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel,1 confirmed2 it by an oath:
EAV Rom 9:15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion.
EAV Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

Scripture Proof (2)
EAV Jam 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
EAV Jam 1:17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness,1 neither shadow of turning.2
EAV 1Jo 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Scripture Proof (3)
EAV Act 2:23 Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain:
EAV Mat 17:12 But I say unto you, That Elias is come already, and they knew him not, but have done unto him whatsoever they listed.1 Likewise shall also the Son of man suffer of them.
EAV Act 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child1 Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,
EAV Act 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.
EAV Joh 19:11 Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
EAV Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

2. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions;(4) yet has He not decreed anything because He foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.(5)

Scripture Proof (4)
EAV Act 15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
EAV 1Sa 23:11 Will the men of Keilah deliver me up into his hand? will Saul come down, as thy servant hath heard? O LORD God of Israel, I beseech thee, tell thy servant. And the LORD said, He will come down.
EAV 1Sa 23:12 Then said David, Will the men of Keilah deliver me and my men into the hand of Saul? And the LORD said, They will deliver thee up.
EAV Mat 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
EAV Mat 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.

Scripture Proof (5)
EAV Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
EAV Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
EAV Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
EAV Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.

3. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of His glory, some men and angels(6) are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.(7)

Scripture Proof (6)
EAV 1Ti 5:21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect1 angels, that thou observe these things without preferring2 one before another, doing nothing by partiality.
EAV Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Scripture Proof (7)
EAV Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew1 his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to2 destruction:
EAV Rom 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore1 prepared unto glory,
EAV Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
EAV Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted1 in the beloved.
EAV Pro 14:4 Where no oxen are, the crib is clean: but much increase is by the strength of the ox.

4. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.(8)

Scripture Proof (8)
EAV 2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure,1 having this seal, The Lord knoweth2 them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
EAV Joh 13:18 I speak not of you all: I know whom I have chosen: but that the scripture may be fulfilled, He that eateth bread with me hath lifted up his heel against me.

5. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to His eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of His will, has chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,(9) out of His mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving Him thereunto;(10) and all to the praise of His glorious grace.(11)

Scripture Proof (9)
EAV Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
EAV Eph 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery1 of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
EAV Eph 1:11 In whom also we have obtained1 an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel2 of his own will:
EAV Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
EAV 2Ti 1:9 Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,
EAV 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,1 but to obtain2 salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Scripture Proof (10)
EAV Rom 9:11 (For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
EAV Rom 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated.
EAV Rom 9:16 So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy.
EAV Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
EAV Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted1 in the beloved.

Scripture Proof (11)
EAV Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted1 in the beloved.
EAV Eph 1:12 That we should be to the praise of his glory, who first trusted in Christ.

6. As God has appointed the elect unto glory, so has He, by the eternal and most free purpose of His will, foreordained all the means thereunto.(12) Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,(13) are effectually called unto faith in Christ by His Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,(14) and kept by His power, through faith, unto salvation.(15) Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.(16)

Scripture Proof (12)
EAV 1Pe 1:2 Elect1 according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of2 the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
EAV Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
EAV Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
EAV Eph 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained1 that we should walk in them.
EAV 2Th 2:13 But we are bound1 to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of2 the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Scripture Proof (13)
EAV 1Th 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath,1 but to obtain2 salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,
EAV 1Th 5:10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.
EAV Tit 2:14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar1 people, zealous of good works.

Scripture Proof (14)
EAV Rom 8:30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
EAV Eph 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
EAV 2Th 2:13 But we are bound1 to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of2 the Spirit and belief of the truth:

Scripture Proof (15)
EAV 1Pe 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Scripture Proof (16)
EAV Joh 17:9 I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given me; for they are thine.
EAV Rom 8:28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
EAV Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
EAV Joh 6:64 But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
EAV Joh 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.
EAV Joh 10:26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
EAV Joh 8:47 He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
EAV 1Jo 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest1 that they were not all of us.

7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praised of His glorious justice.(17)

Scripture Proof (17)
EAV Mat 11:25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.
EAV Mat 11:26 Even so, Father: for so it seemed good in thy sight.
EAV Rom 9:17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name1 might be declared2 throughout all the earth.
EAV Rom 9:18 Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth.
EAV Rom 9:21 Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
EAV Rom 9:22 What if God, willing to shew1 his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to2 destruction:
EAV 2Ti 2:19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure,1 having this seal, The Lord knoweth2 them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.
EAV 2Ti 2:20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
EAV Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares,1 who were before of old ordained2 to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness,3 and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
EAV 1Pe 2:8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

8. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,(18) that men, attending the will of God revealed in His Word, and yielding obedience 
thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.(19) So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;(20) and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the Gospel.(21)

Scripture Proof (18)
EAV Rom 9:20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against1 God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
EAV Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
EAV Deu 29:29 The secret things belong unto the LORD our God: but those things which are revealed belong unto us and to our children for ever, that we may do all the words of this law.

Scripture Proof (19)
EAV 2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election1 sure:2 for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:

Scripture Proof (20)
EAV Eph 1:6 To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted1 in the beloved.
EAV Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

Scripture Proof (21)
EAV Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
EAV Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
EAV Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded,1 but fear:2
EAV Rom 8:33 Who shall lay any thing to1 the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth.2
EAV 2Pe 1:10 Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election1 sure:2 for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall:
EAV Luk 10:20 Notwithstanding in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subject unto you; but rather rejoice, because your names are written in heaven.


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## Authorised (Jun 15, 2004)

I'm in agreement with the WCF, absolutely and totally, and especially where it says:

&quot;7. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of His own will, whereby He extends or withholds mercy, as He pleases, for the glory of His sovereign power over His creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath [b:0dfe3f34ad]for their sin[/b:0dfe3f34ad], to the praised of His glorious justice.(17)&quot;

But Calvin is teaching that God reprobates without any regard to sin...unless I'm reading it wrong.


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## Irishcat922 (Jun 15, 2004)

Let me reread Calvin on that and I will get back to you in a little while. 
Thanks


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## Ianterrell (Jun 15, 2004)

[quote:68fe33ebd7][i:68fe33ebd7]Originally posted by Authorised[/i:68fe33ebd7]
I read this portion of Calvin last night before going to sleep at 4 a.m. 


What was bothering me is that Calvin teaches that God decreed that the reprobate would be sinful, yet goes on to say later that the reprobate bring the destruction upon themselves. He also states that God ordained the fall of man into sin not by mere permission, but that God decreed and ordained the fall. Yet also I find he believes that God contemplated the reprobate as sinless before he committed them to be &quot;doomed from the womb.&quot; 

So I guess he was a supralapsarian. What kept me up last night was this: 

If God is the author of sin, as Calvin seems to say, how is that not an idictment on His character?

[Edited on (6/15/04) by Authorised] [/quote:68fe33ebd7]

Aaron,

Could you please supply some specific quotes that highlight the facets of Calvin's teaching that would imply God as the author of sin?

Secondly, do you think that the fall was not based ulitmately on the Eternal Purpose of God? The next logical conclusion is what do you believe God ordains? What are the limits of God's providence in your world-view?


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## Authorised (Jun 15, 2004)

Sure, I can post of few things of Calvin's:

We come now to the reprobate, to whom the Apostle at the
same time refers, (Rom. 9: 13.) For as Jacob, who as yet had merited nothing by good works, is assumed into favor; so Esau, while as yet unpolluted by any crime, is hated.&quot;

Book 3, Chapt. 22, Sect. 11


&quot;Impiety starts another objection, which, however, seeks not so much to criminate God as to excuse the sinner; though he who is condemned by God as a sinner cannot ultimately be acquitted without impugning the judge. This, then is the scoffing language which profane tongues employ: Why should God blame men for things the necessity of which he has imposed by his own predestination? What could they do? Could they struggle with his decrees? It were in vain for them to do it, since they could not possibly succeed. It is not just, therefore, to punish them for things the principal cause of which is in the predestination of God.&quot;

Book 3, Chapt. 23, Sect. 6


&quot;Nor ought it to seem absurd when I say, that God not only foresaw the fall of the first man, and in him the ruin of his posterity; but also at his own pleasure arranged it. For as it belongs to his wisdom to foreknow all future events, so it belongs to his power to rule and govern them by his hand.&quot;

Book 3, Chapt. 23, Sect. 7


&quot;Here they recur to the distinction between will and permission, the object being to prove that the wicked perish only by the permission, but not by the will of God. But why do we say that he permits, but just because he wills? Nor, indeed, is there any probability in the thing itself, viz., that man brought death upon himself merely by the permission, and not by the ordination of God; as if God had not determined what he wished the condition of the chief of his creatures to be.&quot;

Book 3, Chapt. 23, Sect. 8


These are the particular passages about which I had some doubts.

Edit: To answer your other question, I would say that God is limited by his nature in that he can do nothing which is un-Godlike, such as tempt others to sin or be tempted himself to sin, &amp;c, &amp;c. (James 1:13)

[Edited on (6/15/04) by Authorised]


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## Ianterrell (Jun 15, 2004)

Hmm, I don't see anything wrong with any of those statements. God does ordain all things positively not by mere permission. He did ordain the fall of man, and he did in his eternal decree ordain all things both good and evil to come to pass.


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## Authorised (Jun 15, 2004)

So how is he not the author of sin?


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## Irishcat922 (Jun 15, 2004)

God decrees yet man is still ultimately responsible for his actions. I think Calvin agrees with the Apostle on this point. 

Rom 9:20-26 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus?
Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?
What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:
And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,
Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?
As he saith also in Osee, I will call them my people, which were not my people; and her beloved, which was not beloved.
And it shall come to pass, that in the place where it was said unto them, Ye are not my people; there shall they be called the children of the living God.


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## Ianterrell (Jun 15, 2004)

Aaron,


I think you'll find that this is a common issue that is addressed by Reformed thinkers. It is addressed in both WCF and LBC 1689 documents on God's providence. It is a mystery that God somehow ordains sinful acts and yet is not the author of sin. He purposes them and yet does this in such a way as to not be the source.


[quote:3e755350bc]IV. The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God so far manifest themselves in His providence, that it extends itself even to the first fall, and all other sins of angels and men; and that not by a bare permission, but such as has joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding, and otherwise ordering, and governing of them, in a manifold dispensation, to His own holy ends; yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceeds only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin.

V. The most wise, righteous, and gracious God does oftentimes leave, for a season, His own children to manifold temptations, and the corruption of their own hearts, to chastise them for their former sins, or to discover unto them the hidden strength of corruption and deceitfulness of their hearts, that they may be humbled; and, to raise them to a more close and constant dependence for their support upon Himself, and to make them more watchful against all future occasions of sin, and for sundry other just and holy ends.

VI. As for those wicked and ungodly men whom God, as a righteous Judge, for former sins, does blind and harden, from them He not only withholds His grace whereby they might have been enlightened in their understandings, and wrought upon in their hearts; but sometimes also withdraws the gifts which they had, and exposes them to such objects as their corruption makes occasion of sin; and, withal, gives them over to their own lusts, the temptations of the world, and the power of Satan, whereby it comes to pass that they harden themselves, even under those means which God uses for the softening of others.[/quote:3e755350bc]

These are the statements of the Westminster divines on God's Providence in relation to sin. There are several extensive proof texts. God hardens Pharoah's heart in such a way that Pharoah is completely guilty of the sin. The census that David wrongly takes of Israel is said to be incited by Satan and then in another place this is said to have been the decree of God. I think the biggest and most clearest show of God's providence over sinful acts is the crucifixion of Christ. This is perhaps the most audacious act against the holiness of God by man in all of covenantal history. The prophets were rejected, killed, and mocked. But now Israel had killed God's Son and this was all ordained by God. It was all done according to the predetermined plan of God.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 8, 2004)

God is not responsible for sin because He uses secondary agents to accomplish the tempting and persuasion that leads people to sin (demons, other people, etc.).


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## IX (Jul 9, 2004)

I would simply suggest that you go back and read Book 1 chapters 15 (especially chapter 15 section 8[i:97e869c7a8])&quot;State in which man was created. The faculties of the soul- the image of God- freewill- original righteousness.&quot; [/i:97e869c7a8]and Book 1 Chapter 18 (all 4 sections) [i:97e869c7a8]&quot;The instrumentality of the wicked employed by God, while He continues free from every taint.&quot; [/i:97e869c7a8]

If your not already doing this, I recommend reading the Institutes from cover to cover as Calvin builds each book and chapter upon the previous ones. So book 3 will seem to only hint at words and topics already more fully explored in books 1 and 2.

Peace and grace in Christ now asn always!


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## IX (Jul 9, 2004)

From rereading my post from last night (early this morning) I don't know why, but I left out from the chapters to reference,
Book 2 chapters 1-5 which deal with the fall.


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