# Are pastors kind of whiny?



## Caroline (Jan 14, 2013)

I thought that title would get some attention. And since you are reading this, I must have succeeded. 

I heard some interesting comments from a pastor who has ministered for more than ten years, in which he said that he wonders whether sometimes the commiseration of ministers drifts into the realm of whininess, that 'burn-out' can be a euphemism for "I don't want to fulfill my responsibilities," and that ministers ought to remember that no one had a gun to their head when they signed up for this job, and that they should have realized it involved caring for a bunch of sinners and wouldn't always be an easy road.

I think the guy in question would definitely grant that pastoring can be a tough job, and I know that he has had some serious trials in his own ministry along the way, so he wasn't just looking to be offensive. I suspect he was partly talking to himself to remind himself to stick to the task at hand. 

But that got me thinking about whininess in general. 

In regard to pastors, I don't feel like I'm in a position to make sweeping judgments. I will readily admit that they have a job that I wouldn't want, and I am generally inclined to be sympathetic. However, there is something to be said for courage. If a soldier complains too much that guns make him nervous and standing watch is a dull and chilly business, we say, "Well, what did you think you were signing up for? A Caribbean cruise? Now, pull it together, and stick to your post, you big baby!" And I suppose the same could be said about pastors, but I wouldn't want to be the one to make individual judgments about that.

But more generally, where do you think legitimate complaint turns into whining? We all have trials and burdens, and some are really serious, and yet even the serious ones deteriorate into self-pity at certain points. A few years ago, I knew a young woman who had a disability which was no doubt a real challenge to her, and yet it had turned into a never-ending litany of complaints, wailing, and selfishness. No one ever understood her terrible plight in life, apparently, even those (including her husband and pastor) who ran in circles trying to make her happy. Nothing was ever enough for her, because she was still disabled, and therefore believed herself perfectly justified in making everyone else miserable. There is a legitimate complaint that can be made regarding disability, and a real hardship involved, and I don't think anyone would start by saying, "Oh, stop whining." In fact, it sounds rather heartless. And yet, at some point, one MUST say, "Look, nobody wants to be around you because all you do is cry about how unfair your life is. We've all got problems. Find something constructive to do with your time."

I have often wondered this even about support groups. Can they eventually become destructive if they turn into an open venting forum for people who are tempted to constantly bewail their lot in life? I found one ex-cultist group to be unhealthy for myself, as it seemed in the long-run to tempt me to become more paranoid about life than to actually recover from difficult experiences. And yet, there is something to be said for talking to people who can relate, and I do think some of that was helpful.

How do you judge whether you cross the line between healthy expression and criticism to complaining and self-pity? It's difficult, because nearly every form of disagreement could be accused of complaining, even if it is absolutely justified. And yet people always FEEL justified while they are whining, even when they are just grumbling to no purpose. And generally, if one is suffering is it better to talk to those who suffer similarly and so "understand"? Or does that inevitably deteriorate into an open forum for whining?

Thoughts? (And I ask this not so much to accuse pastors, but in considering my own life and my temptation to whine about life's inequities).


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## Pergamum (Jan 14, 2013)

My dad worked 30 years in a car factory. I get to do what I love. Praise God!


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## Zach (Jan 14, 2013)

I think we're all kind of whiny. Regardless of what one does, I think there are serious temptations to complain in the manner that you describe in your post.


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## Phil D. (Jan 14, 2013)

Frankly I'm surprised (and grateful) more pastors aren't whinier than they are.


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## Randy in Tulsa (Jan 14, 2013)

In our church plant, when people visit and don't return or come for awhile and then leave, it's hard for me to not take it personally. I can't imagine how difficult it must be for pastors.


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## JonathanHunt (Jan 14, 2013)

One tries keep one's whining private.


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## Poimen (Jan 14, 2013)

In answer to the question "Are pastors kind of whiny?" I would say yes (stressing "kind of") but mainly to our wives and colleagues. As Jonathan says, one keeps this whining from the congregation. 

But it is also true that many people from all walks of life whine about their situation so pastors are no different in that respect. We may feel sorry for ourselves, persecuted even and not a little harangued. 

Sometimes I even think 'why me?' but then I contemplate Jesus' suffering for me, the suffering of others which is far worse and I begin to feel a little guilty for whining.


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## Curt (Jan 14, 2013)

I know that this retired pastor tried to keep the whining private. I'm sure it did burst out on occasion, however.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jan 14, 2013)

We are to do all things, the Apostle said, "without murmuring or complaining" (Phil. 2:14). It's not murmuring if I pour out my complaint before the Lord, looking to Him for relief and contenting myself in His wise providence. I am to wait upon Him, to see the goodness of the Lord in the land of the living (Psalm 27:13-14).

Do ministers unduly murmur (or whine, as the post calls it)? I think that we often do, and it is particularly unfitting for ministers to do so because of who we are and what we get to do: we are miserable sinners, who have not only come to know God's love (as have all His own), but also have been called to preach the law and gospel for the gathering and perfecting of the saints. I--who so richly deserve hell--not only get to go to heaven, but I get to tell others about the grace of God in Christ, calling them to repentance and faith.

When ministers murmur or whine, we've forgotten the grace of God to us (we're nothing to write home about; we forget that when we murmur about the flock) and of the inestimable privilege that is ours to proclaim the riches of His grace. When I am walking with the Lord as I ought, I see what an immense and unspeakable privilege is mine. When I am not, I murmur and complain (not telling Him about it), but telling my wife or others what a hard lot I have. We may have enormous difficulties come our way as ministers, but faith sees them as did Paul, who suffered enormously--as light afflictions. 

Peace,
Alan


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## Caroline (Jan 14, 2013)

Thanks... I suppose I wasn't really fixating on pastors in particular, but just in an overall sense. Pastors are a convenient example (as mentioned by a pastor that I know) because they really do face difficulties. But the question is more on this level: When does legitimate complaining become whining? And that's a question for anyone, including myself.

In other words, if a pastor tells me, "My church is struggling. I am facing great difficulties. My family can barely pay our rent," I don't really consider that whining. Just as someone saying, "I am disabled, and I suffer serious pain almost every day" is not necessarily whining. But there is a point at which it does become whining, and the difficult thing is that it is almost impossible to know where that point is when I am the one complaining. I always feel justified in my grumbling at the time, and it is not until someone says to me, "Oh, stop complaining," that I realize that is what I am doing. Fortunately, I have a very forthright friend who is never slow to say that.

On the other hand, there have been a few occasions in my life where, "Stop complaining," has been used to attempt to shut me up wrongly. For example, when I was young, there was a man much respected in our church who had some very unfortunate sinful behavior toward young girls. When I complained about his behavior, I was told, "Stop grumbling. There are people who have things much worse. Just forgive him."

So it is a difficult topic for me, and the example of pastors is just an example that brought it to mind again. At what point is grumbling real grumbling? At what point does it stop being justified? You can always say, "There are people worse off than you," but that doesn't mean that a complaint isn't legitimate. On the other hand, everyone THINKS their complaint is legitimate while they are complaining, even if they are only complaining that the store is out of strawberry pop-tarts. So it is hard to know.


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## Caroline (Jan 14, 2013)

PS And as a secondary question: Is it correct to caution people about participation in support groups? And I would also mean pastors who are involved in forums that are pastor-only, or parents of autistic children (such as myself) involved in autism support groups? It does seem like the tendency is for those situations to devolve into endless complaining and reinforcement of complaining. But then, perhaps there is some good in them also.


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## JonathanHunt (Jan 14, 2013)

There is a danger in Ministers' Fraternals (or in the presbyterian context, Presbytery or Classis etc) that they can become whinge-fests and gossip-mills, where groups of men huddle round with their hands on each other's shoulders nodding sympathetically as they relate their sufferings at the hands of mr x and mrs y, or the antics of Deacon z.

Of course, there is a legitimate usefulness of a meeting where Elders can seek counsel of each other in confidence, but care needs to be taken.

Whinging to be guarded against as Alan has pointed out about. 

Personally, I have found that other people would encourage me to whinge more than I would be inclined to whinge myself. 'Why do you put up with that?' 'You should do something about that' etc.


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## JoannaV (Jan 14, 2013)

I suppose it is good to always think about why you are about to say what you're about to say. A complaint may well be justified, but _why_ are you about to vocalise it? What do you hope to achieve? When it comes to pastors, it is good for congregants to know their pastor doesn't live an idyllic life of ease, and to maybe have some idea of when he needs rest or whatnot. Doesn't mean he needs to mention such things every time it crosses his mind though.
Watching your tongue is haaaard.


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