# Different types of "worship"



## jennywigg (Aug 22, 2011)

We have a really great Christian ballet company in our town that tours all over the world. They're really more like missionaries than an ordinary ballet company. Here's the thing, though. At the church we used to go to, which was Southern Baptist (but sometimes referred to as "Bapti-Costal,") the company members sometimes came and danced as part of the morning service. Don't get me wrong...I love watching the girls dance...heck, my own daughter is a student at the school. And the company members are really godly women who are, I'm sure, wanting to use their talent to praise the Lord and share the gospel. In addition to the dancing, the services at this church were the typical loud, stimulating, hand-raising type of service that draws a lot of people in. Sadly, it drew us in, too, for a few years. 

However, we've seen the light, so to speak, and have made a switch to the Reformed faith over the last year. We're attending a traditional PCA church, and we love it.I know deep down that the way our worship services are held is "right." The Word is preached, the sacraments are administered, there's abundant prayer, catechism classes are held for the kids, we're taught the Westminster Confession, we sing from the Trinity Hymnal. Those things seem "right," but I'm still not sure how to articulatewhy. I'm sure this is the scriptural way to hold a worship service, but explaining it to my non-Reformed friends and family is hard. I'm having trouble even figuring it out myself. My former church friends wouldn't understand what's wrong with people dancing and raising their hands and playing loud music and singing loud, K-LOVE-type songs during the worship service if people are really doing these things to praise God. I do a lot of reading, but man, we're moving from one extreme to the other, and there's so much to digest! How can I sort this out?


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Aug 22, 2011)

It seems to me that you have little to explain, other than "X style of worship" did not minister to me any longer, and "Y" style of worship does minister to me. And leave it respectfully at that. I came out of a similar SBC background, as well. 

I had a chat with someone at my church the other day about keeping a lid on our "contemporary" service. It seems like when you become way too focused on "worship music" then you start to worship......music. 

Where in Mississippi are you?


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## Andres (Aug 22, 2011)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> It seems to me that you have little to explain, other than "X style of worship" did not minister to me any longer, and "Y" style of worship does minister to me. And leave it respectfully at that. I came out of a similar SBC background, as well.



I respectfully disagree with my brother, Mark. What he's saying makes worship a personal matter - "it didn't minister to _me_..." Any of your friends could just counter, "well it ministers to me" and then what is your counter? Worship goes far beyond this in that it's a matter of what God has ordained as biblical worship. Jennifer, have you ever heard of the regulative principle of worship? I suggest doing a search on this board (top right of the page)for that term or perhaps just "RPW". You should find several thread that will give you a good beginning place to understand why reformed folk worship the way we do.


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## Scottish Lass (Aug 22, 2011)

You may want to look into searches here involving threads on the Regulative Principle of Worship, too. It articulates why we do what we do in a Reformed service (and why we don't do other things). The short version is that worship following the RPW will have biblical models for each part of worship and omit what doesn't. Preaching, singing, prayer, calls to repentance, etc. all have examples from Scripture, whereas clown services do not.

Andrew and I cross-posted, as we often do.


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## Fly Caster (Aug 22, 2011)

Jennifer,

Here's some sermons & lectures from Dr. Joey Pipa (of Greenville Seminary) that have been delivered to our church over the years. I think these may help-- http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?subsetitem=Joseph A. Pipa Jr.&subsetcat=speaker&keyword=westmin&keywordDesc=Westminster+Presbyterian+Church&SourceOnly=true&currSection=sermonssource&includekeywords=

(especially #3-#10)


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## sdesocio (Aug 22, 2011)

Jennifer,
I want to challenge you in love.
I think the challenge is that there seems to be a great deal of over lap between your personal preferences and the patterns of worship unpacked in Scripture. 
Let me just point out a few things:
My former church friends wouldn't understand what's wrong with people...raising their hands (any Biblical argument for not raising your hands will be about as thin as you can get. The pattern of the early church in fact was to prayer looking up to heaven with their heads raised.) and playing loud music(Im not sure that you could give an argument for the volume of music. Id bet that hundreds of horns being blown was pretty loud in the temple. ) and singing loud (Im even more confused by a problem with singing loudly?), K-LOVE-type songs (unless youre going to become an Exclusive psalmist) the leaders of a church have the right to pick the songs they want. Should there be certain patterns, yes but to argue that our personal preferences just feel right, seems to go against the entire weight of the reformed tradition. As a brother in Christ not trying to offend you Id suggest that you might still be thinking in a consumer mindeset about church.


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## N. Eshelman (Aug 22, 2011)

Has anyone mentioned the Regulative Principle of Worship yet? Just kidding. 

Enjoy your reading...


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## Andres (Aug 22, 2011)

Scottish Lass said:


> Andrew and I cross-posted, as we often do.



An honor maam!


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## Scott1 (Aug 22, 2011)

> Chapter XXI
> Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day
> ....
> 
> ...



Basically, these are the forms of biblical worship, individual, family and corporate. It does not include the many imagined devices of men, including dance.

That's not to say in a general sense anythihg done as unto the Lord is "worshipful." but that is not the same thing. To study this through, study the Scripture prooftexts to Chapter XXI of the Westminster Confession. GI Williamson, _The Westminster Confession for study classes _has an excellent section explaining this.

---------- Post added at 10:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:39 PM ----------

Now when you get into styles of music, for example you have more of a grey area. You may become convinced that psalms only are acceptable, for example, and that would be a principle if you held that, the tunes would be an incident. But don't let personal preferences become equal with substance. The "incidents" of worship are not what we are describing here.

In the end, God is particular about what He wants His creatures to do as worship, and it is not about us so much as it is about worshipping a holy God who has commanded, demanded that He be worshipped in ways He alone prescribes.


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## Edward (Aug 22, 2011)

If it is the group I'm thinking of, they have performed at PCA churches, and I have a dim recollection that the founder was a member of a PCA church at the time. 



jennywigg said:


> We have a really great Christian ballet company in our town


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## jennywigg (Aug 23, 2011)

sdesocio said:


> Jennifer,
> I want to challenge you in love.
> I think the challenge is that there seems to be a great deal of over lap between your personal preferences and the patterns of worship unpacked in Scripture.
> Let me just point out a few things:
> My former church friends wouldn't understand what's wrong with people...raising their hands (any Biblical argument for not raising your hands will be about as thin as you can get. The pattern of the early church in fact was to prayer looking up to heaven with their heads raised.) and playing loud music(Im not sure that you could give an argument for the volume of music. Id bet that hundreds of horns being blown was pretty loud in the temple. ) and singing loud (Im even more confused by a problem with singing loudly?), K-LOVE-type songs (unless youre going to become an Exclusive psalmist) the leaders of a church have the right to pick the songs they want. Should there be certain patterns, yes but to argue that our personal preferences just feel right, seems to go against the entire weight of the reformed tradition. As a brother in Christ not trying to offend you Id suggest that you might still be thinking in a consumer mindeset about church.



Oh, wow...you definitely misread me. When I said "feels right," I meant that intuitivelythe way we worship in my PCA church seems right to me, as opposed to the way the "clown" services felt (good description). The suggestions to read about the RPW were great. That will help me articulate things for questioning friends and family. If you still insist that I have a consumerist mindset, you're confused about what I'm actually saying and asking. ...now I wish I hadn't used the word "feel." Should have known better... 

---------- Post added at 10:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 PM ----------

Also, just to clarify: At my former church, I'm not talking about mere styles of music. I'm talking about lyrics that were definitely "me-centered" and way off-base doctrinally. And worship services that were all about what "ministered" to the audience. And music and lighting designed to whip the audience into an emotional frenzy. I've been in a "contemporary" Reformed service, and this was not one of those.


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