# Philippians 2:12 Plural and singular of "you" and exposition of a difficult text



## Eoghan (Aug 17, 2010)

Philippians 2:12 "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye (singular) have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your (plural)own salvation with fear and trembling." KJV

The King James seems to indicate that Paul is thinking of the Philippians as individuals but addressing them collectively. The salvation he is speaking of is not personal but rather the collective outworking of that faith. It is the corporate aspect that troubles Paul, the church was not getting along as it should this would explain the switch from singular to plural - preserved for us in the AV.

Feel free to disagree


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## CharlieJ (Aug 17, 2010)

Except that "ye" is a plural pronoun. The singular is "thou."


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## Eoghan (Aug 18, 2010)

CharlieJ said:


> Except that "ye" is a plural pronoun. The singular is "thou."



what about "you" ?


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## py3ak (Aug 18, 2010)

"Ye" and "you" are both plural - like "we" and "us". The difference between them is that one is nominative or subjective and the other is objective or accusative. We now make no distinction between "thou" and "ye" on the one hand, nor between "ye" and "you" on the other, leaving the usage to be gathered from the context. And of course these days people even get confused between "I" and "me".


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## Steve Curtis (Aug 18, 2010)

In the Greek for this verse, both are plural.


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## Whitefield (Aug 18, 2010)

py3ak said:


> "And of course these days people even get confused between "I" and "me".


 
Not to mention many people confusing "he" and "she".  sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## Grimmson (Aug 18, 2010)

kainos01 said:


> In the Greek for this verse, both are plural.


 
It is true that their both in the Greek, but Let be a bit more specific. The pronoun for “ye” is not present in the Greek, instead the Greek verb for obey is in the Aorist second person plural is present, which the “ye” or you all is carried over into the English translation because of it connection to "obey". The “your” as a pronoun is in the plural genitive case, making the salvation to belong in the plural sense to the people he is writing to; which is why in the King James Version it is translated as your own salvation. I would probably translate it the salvation of yourselves, but that just me.

Some confusion over words like "ye" for the KJV is one of the reason I do not recommend it; instead go for the NKJV.


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