# Church Fathers & Election



## Tom Hart (May 4, 2016)

I see that there have been a few threads in the past about the Church Fathers' theological relationship to Reformed Christianity. However, none quite answered the question I have.

There's a fellow who attends our church who is an avowed Classical Arminian. I have pressed him softly on his views on God's sovereignty and human free will and it is clear to me that he has a very weak view of God. I don't find it very profitable to engage with him in conversation because we come from very different starting points, and he seems very stubborn.

Something he did counter with once, though, was that none of the Church Fathers or early Christian writers held to a view of predestination that was later articulated by St. Augustine. In fact, he says that it is only after St. Augustine's encounters with Pelagianism that his views became more clearly defined. So, in other words, the Augustinian (and Calvinistic) understanding of salvation is a novelty of the later half of Augustine's writings.

I know next to nothing about the Church Fathers or about historical theology. I understand that it has taken a long time for some theological points to be clearly defined, and that we hold the Reformation to be a recovery of true doctrine. However, I hope you can help me understand whether there is any truth to this statement: _None of the early Christians prior to Augustine articulated a belief in predestination like that which was later characteristic of Reformed theology._

(I apologize if my language is unclear. I'm a bit over my head when it comes to these things. I also apologize that I have no sources to name. This is only something that came up in conversation a while ago, so it could well have little foundation.)


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## Moses Costigan (May 4, 2016)

There is a legacy course from Reformed Theology Seminary taught by Derek Thomas which is an introduction to reformed theology which is excellent...... I've listened through several times over the last 3 to 4 years (it's audio lecture material) but i don't have it currently but i will find the link and post it. 
I remember references to the doctrines of election and predestination in the teaching of the Early Church Fathers which was broader than Augustine's teaching on election.


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## Moses Costigan (May 4, 2016)

Tom, this is the course i mentioned above.

https://itunesu.itunes.apple.com/feed/id378878956


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## KeithW (May 4, 2016)

Appeals to church fathers need to be understood in context. As far as I know they did not write systematic theologies. We cannot simply go to a chapter called "election" in any given early church father's books. A lot of writings against errant doctrines came about when men wanted to preserve true Christian doctrine against false doctrine being taught and spread. A doctrine like the Trinity or election were understood by the early church as givens. It was only when men taught differently that systematic arguments were developed against false beliefs. So Augustine was simply writing down in a systematic form what the entire Christian church already believed on man's total inability toward God, election, etc. And when the Council Of Carthage in 418AD met and condemned Pelagianism, the council represented all Christian churches of that day. They were not inventing something new which no one before them believed.

From a reformed perspective, if you look at any council which dealt with "free will" movements, Pelagianism or Semi-Pelagianism or Aminianism, the councils always re-established man's total inability towards God first. Then the other associated doctrines like election are explained from that context.

A good book is "Augustine & The Pelagian Controversy" by B.B. Warfield. It is available as a free ebook at monergism.com.


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## rickclayfan (May 4, 2016)

I don't think it would be of tremendous importance to look at the views of the Church Fathers in regard to this issue. The views that people hold in regard to certain doctrines only become important to know after there has been much discussion and debate about them. 

Take justification, for instance. It was not thoroughly discussed until the sixteenth century. Any references to justification before that time would be interesting to know, but those who made such remarks would probably have had a confused or partially defective view of it. Augustine, for instance, was confused in regard to the matter. He emphasized grace and faith, but held to infusion. He had distinctive Protestant elements and Roman Catholic elements as well.

In the same way, the pre-fourth century Fathers may have held to predestination, but with each subsequent generation after the apostolic church, the understanding of it became more vague and confused and was eventually swallowed up by free-willism.


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## arapahoepark (May 4, 2016)

Also check out Faber's Primitive Doctrine of Election.


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