# Epictetus



## WrittenFromUtopia (Sep 11, 2005)

Has anyone studied any Epictetus? What do you think about his viewpoints in relation to Paul? Some assert they have much, much, much in common, and that Paul borrowed from Epictetus in "starting" Christianity.


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## CalsFarmer (Sep 12, 2005)

???? I am not understanding the foundation for your question. 

Epictetus was a stoic philosopher. Christian thought and doctrine should never be subjected to other philosophical viewpoints. As the gospels penned by Paul are the Word of God, how is it that a person can even make a comparision let alone subjection of the Pauline Epistles to a human based philosophy? 

Stoicicsm while noble is a works based school of thought and life. 

Who are the 'some' you refer to that assert a commonality between stoicicsm and Christianity?


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## rgrove (Sep 12, 2005)

Unbelievers have made these claims for the entire life of the faith and will continue to do so. Usually they claim we got it all from Plato or Aristotle, though. Hadn't heard of anyone using this fellow...


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Sep 12, 2005)

Paul, have you read anything by Hannah Arendt?


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## Puritanhead (Sep 12, 2005)

I don't see how one could give creedance to such a fanciful theory. It's not even remotely tenable -- just by the timing of his life and correlation to the Apostle Paul's ministry and journey. He was a late bloomer that didn't come in Paul's generation for starters. It probably took some time for him to gain influence. What we know of the Stoic philosopher Epictetus (c. 55 - c.135 A.D.) is that he grew up in rome, tutored in Nicopolis in Greece, and left no writings and the writings on
Epictetus comes from one of his students Flavius Arrian (c. 86"“160 A.D.)

[Edited on 9-13-2005 by Puritanhead]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Sep 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



In my P300 Medieval Philosophy class at IU, we are discussing the idea of Freedom/Free Will as it relates to the polis and otherwise. We are focusing on Paul, Augustine, and Epictetus at the moment. They've already asserted that Paul is the founder of Christianity and the like .. I'm sure you know the drill. Anyhow, most, if not all, of our discussion is based on Hannah Arendt's views on Paul, Augustine, and Epictetus. From what I've read in _Discovery of the Inner Man_ and _Between Past and Future_ she seems to "like" Paul and Augustine, but still doesn't see them as anything more than philosophers. She seems to want to draw a heavy correlation between Paul and Epictetus, as if they were copying off of one another, except for the obvious discrepencies (Paul sees the will as crippled, Epictetus as sovereign). I'm just wondering if you know of any good articles or sources that refute her claims, so I can be best prepared as we are going through this class. I see through most of her insanity (being a pagan) and smoke screens as is, but learning more never hurts.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Sep 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> Paul's claims refute hers, I'd say. It sounds like she's telling us what Paul believed rather than letting Paul tell us himself. So, if she claims X and Paul said Y (about himself), then so much the worse for the "johnny come lately."



Exactly. I stress this point a lot in class. It isn't well received.


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## Puritanhead (Sep 13, 2005)

My favorite Stoic pagan is Marcus Aurelius...


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