# Defending Constantine



## RamistThomist (Nov 24, 2013)

EDIT: In writing a review of _Defending Constantine_, I hasten to add I am not defending Leithart. I'm criticizing him. 

Leithart used to be able to write well. Even a few years ago when he openly attacked Reformed theology in *The Baptized Body,* his writing was cogent and impressive. Something happened between the writing of that book and the writing of this one. Admittedly, Leithart does accomplish a few useful ends in this book. I will list where he is strong and where is his is either wrong, misleading, of inadequate.

Pros:
1) Leithart does a good job handling the disciples of Yoder
2) Leithart does a good job dealing with the secular scholarship that downplays the obvious persecution of Christians. I like Gibbon a lot, but Leithart ably rebuts him.
3) There remains the fact of a Christian *polis,* and we see such in Constantine.

Cons:
1) While I side with Leithart over Yoder, it cannot be denied that there was a seismic shift in the Church’s praxis with the advent of Constantine.

2) Further, there was a seismic shift in the church’s eschatology. While some have challenged the ubiquity of premillennialism in the pre-Nicene church, it was there and its eschatology was forward-looking to the reign of Yahweh-in-Christ upon the earth. With the advent of a Christian Emperor over the known world, an emperor who was known as “Equal-to-the-Apostles” (which can still be heard in Eastern Orthodox litanies today), in whose person Empire and Sacras were united (cf Runciman, *The Byzantine Theocracy*), there is little point for the church to retain its premillennialism. Yoder and Moltmann capably document this. In losing its premillennialism, one must acknowledge it lost a lot of its original ethical thrust.

2a) This is a tangential note: In *Against Christianity* Leithart attacks Eusebius for his postmillennial ethics centered in the Advent of Constantine, saying we should have a more Augustinian eschatology centered in the tension of already-not yet. Now Leithart writes a book where he tacitly endorses Eusebius’ eschatology. One of them has to give.

3) Constantine was a bad Christian, if I may not judge. I am willing to concede the point he was a Christian. I can even buy, for sake of argument, the miracle in the sky. But there are significant problems: 1) He put his family members to death (yes, I know it was realpolitik), 2) he postponed baptism based on very bad theology, and 3) He was not always friendly to Nicene Theology (yes, I realize he didn’t understand it, which further underscores my point). These facts to not negate Leithart’s thesis, but they remain tough pills to swallow.

Conclusion:

2 out of 5 stars


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## jandrusk (Dec 14, 2013)

Well, despite the problems you mentioned, the persecution of the church abated at least.


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## One Little Nail (Dec 14, 2013)

so the Church gave up belief in Pre-Millenialism, ah well at least there was one good outcome from Constantine's Reign.


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## Pergamum (Dec 15, 2013)

jandrusk said:


> Well, despite the problems you mentioned, the persecution of the church abated at least.



It is not the water outside the boat that sinks it (storms) but the water inside the boat that sinks it. The Church seemed healthier under persecution. Satan couldn't destroy the Church by the edge of the sword, so he gave Her gold and fancy buildings and the power of the secular state and corrupted Her from within.


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## earl40 (Dec 15, 2013)

...


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## RamistThomist (Dec 15, 2013)

One Little Nail said:


> so the Church gave up belief in Pre-Millenialism, ah well at least there was one good outcome from Constantine's Reign.



But not for the reasons that you would reject the belief. In the church's/imperium's eyes there was no need for premillennialism since the Kingdom of Christ on Earth was embodied in the person of Constantine, equal to the apostles (or so goes the Byzantine liturgy). Another reason for abandoning premillennialism was the influence (if not entire acceptance) of Origen's hyper-Platonic hermeneutics.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 15, 2013)

jandrusk said:


> Well, despite the problems you mentioned, the persecution of the church abated at least.



A very qualified "yes." Paganism stopped, sort of, but it was a Pyrric victory. It wasn't a pagan emperor who exiled Athanasius five times.


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## MW (Dec 15, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> The Church seemed healthier under persecution.



"Seemed" might be the operative word. When one studies the history in any detail it becomes apparent that errors, divisions, etc., were crippling the church. One concrete example is the issue pertaining to the lapsed in the days of Cyprian.

Cessation from persecution can also have beneficial effects. Acts 9:31, "Then had the churches rest throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria, and were edified; and walking in the fear of the Lord, and in the comfort of the Holy Ghost, were multiplied."

Providence is God's business; obedience is ours. Our duty is to preserve life, property, and integrity. We should not desire the opposite for our neighbour or ourselves. Nor is it desirable for our societies to incur the just judgment of God by doing that which is iniquitous in his sight.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Dec 15, 2013)

RE the health of a church under persecution:

Imagine the horrors endured by the women and children; the removal and destruction of all Bibles and Christian materials; the wholesale slaughter of the Christian communities under Diocletian and his 'general', Galerius. "health of the church" is no great consolation to the bereaved. As Rev Winzer says, "Providence is God's business; obedience is ours." There were healthy Christian churches under Constantine that stayed aloof from the "official religion" when they saw the world enter in.

I see persecution coming upon the West in our century; it will not be pretty, but rather horrendous; we may well be purified, we may also be dead, as will be the case for many at the last Great Cleansing of God's people from the earth (Rev 20:7-9). But upon Babylon will be the harshest judgment – it will be entirely out of the picture, gone. And persecution will continue elsewhere in the world, briefly.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 16, 2013)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> RE the health of a church under persecution:
> 
> Imagine the horrors endured by the women and children; the removal and destruction of all Bibles and Christian materials; the wholesale slaughter of the Christian communities under Diocletian and his 'general', Galerius. "health of the church" is no great consolation to the bereaved. As Rev Winzer says, "Providence is God's business; obedience is ours." There were healthy Christian churches under Constantine that stayed aloof from the "official religion" when they saw the world enter in.
> 
> I see persecution coming upon the West in our century; it will not be pretty, but rather horrendous; we may well be purified, we may also be dead, as will be the case for many at the last Great Cleansing of God's people from the earth (Rev 20:7-9). But upon Babylon will be the harshest judgment – it will be entirely out of the picture, gone. And persecution will continue elsewhere in the world, briefly.



Just to clarify: I was not necessarily critiquing Leithart/Constantine on this point. I freely grant that Constantine's stopping the butchering of Christians is one of the high points of his reign. I just wanted to add that this wasn't the "end-point" of persecution of Christians. Constatine's successors, namely Constantius and The Apostate, renewed attacks on the Church (the former exiled Athanasius). Granted, they weren't throwing men to the lions, but it did prompt Gregory Nazianzus to muse that it might even be more diabolical, since the attack is substituting a false Christian faith in place of the real one. Ironically, The Apostate actually stopped some of the persecution and invited all bishops, Arian and Orthodox, back home since he knew the bickering and dilution would weaken the Church.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 16, 2013)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> RE the health of a church under persecution:
> 
> Imagine the horrors endured by the women and children; the removal and destruction of all Bibles and Christian materials; the wholesale slaughter of the Christian communities under Diocletian and his 'general', Galerius. "health of the church" is no great consolation to the bereaved. As Rev Winzer says, "Providence is God's business; obedience is ours." There were healthy Christian churches under Constantine that stayed aloof from the "official religion" when they saw the world enter in.
> 
> I see persecution coming upon the West in our century; it will not be pretty, but rather horrendous; we may well be purified, we may also be dead, as will be the case for many at the last Great Cleansing of God's people from the earth (Rev 20:7-9). But upon Babylon will be the harshest judgment ï¿½ it will be entirely out of the picture, gone. And persecution will continue elsewhere in the world, briefly.



Just to clarify: I was not necessarily critiquing Leithart/Constantine on this point. I freely grant that Constantine's stopping the butchering of Christians is one of the high points of his reign. I just wanted to add that this wasn't the "end-point" of persecution of Christians. Constatine's successors, namely Constantius and The Apostate, renewed attacks on the Church (the former exiled Athanasius). Granted, they weren't throwing men to the lions, but it did prompt Gregory Nazianzus to muse that it might even be more diabolical, since the attack is substituting a false Christian faith in place of the real one. Ironically, The Apostate actually stopped some of the persecution and invited all bishops, Arian and Orthodox, back home since he knew the bickering and dilution would weaken the Church.


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## jandrusk (Dec 16, 2013)

Yes, I can see both standpoints as far as corruption coming externally or internally. I was just commenting as to what I feel was a positive element regarding Constantine.


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