# Preaching & Laymen



## scottmaciver (Jul 23, 2013)

The qualifications for elders are clearly stated in Scripture. What would be the qualifications for laymen? Is there any evidence for laymen in Scripture?

Also who is entitled to preach the Word - ought it to be the minister and elders of the congregation and students of the ministry only or is there scope for those who are outwith these categories to preach? Finally when do practical considerations legitimately come into play such as someone outwith these categories stepping in to take a meeting when the minister is away and others unavailable?


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Jul 23, 2013)

Dabney's Discussions, Volume 2 (Evangelical) has a good aarticle discussing this very topic called "Lay-Preaching" and uses the celebrated DL Moody as an example.


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## JML (Jul 23, 2013)

*2nd London Baptist Confession of Faith 26:11*



> Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.
> 
> Act 11:19-21; 1Pe 4:10-11


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## jawyman (Jul 23, 2013)

Belgic Confession (Article 30) states:

We believe that this true church ought to be governed according to the spiritual order that our Lord has taught us in his Word. There should be ministers or pastors to preach the Word of God and adminster the sacraments. There should also be elders and deacons, along with the pastors, to make up the council of the church.

By this means true religion is preserved; true doctrine is able to take its course; and evil men are corrected spiritually and held in check, so that also the poor and all the afflicted may be helped and comforted according to their need.

By this means everything will be done well and in good order in the church, when such persons are elected who are faithful and are chosen according to the rule that Paul gave to Timothy.75

Belgic Confession (Article 31) The Officer's of the Church

We believe that ministers of the Word of God, elders, and deacons ought to be chosen to their offices by a legitimate election of the church, with prayer in the name of the Lord, and in good order, as the Word of God teaches.

So everyone must be careful not to push himself forward improperly, but he must wait for God's call, so that he may be assured of his calling and be certain that he is chosen by the Lord.

As for the ministers of the Word, they all have the same power and authority, no matter where they may be, since they are all servants of Jesus Christ, the only universal bishop, and the only head of the church.

Moreover, to keep God's holy order from being violated or despised, we say that everyone ought, as much as possible, to hold the ministers of the Word and elders of the church in special esteem, because of the work they do, and be at peace with them, without grumbling, quarreling, or fighting.

75: 1 Tim. 3:1-13


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## scottmaciver (Jul 23, 2013)

Thanks for the replies. Rev Ruddell, I'll have a read of Dabney when I get a chance.
Would you say unequivocally that those who are not ordained as elders are not to preach the Word in public worship?


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Jul 23, 2013)

Scott, 

I would not say unequivocally that laymen should **never** preach. Even the Westminster Directory for Presbyterial Church Government allowed for extraordinary things to be done when necessity arose, only keeping as closely to the regular order as possible. I also believe that we are rightly able to license students for the ministry to preach after a sufficient testing of their knowledge and gifts, and manner of life, etc. However, Ephesians 4 speaks of the ordinary and extraordinary officers whose duty it is to perfect the saints, do the work of the ministry, and to edify the body of Christ. These are Apostles, Prophets, Evangelists (extraordinary) Pastors, and Teachers (ordinary). Preaching and teaching in the Church belongs to the preachers and teachers to perform. If an unordained man is given leave to teach a class, it should be with at least one elder present to represent ecclesiastical oversight. I understand that this is not always possible, but extremities do not make for good order. 

Further, in declaring an extraordinary circumstance, or an extremity, such situations ought not to be left to the judgment of private individuals. If a man is given leave to preach or exhort from the pulpit, not being an ordinand, the regular order would be to have him approved or that by some ecclesiastical authority, rather than to "take this honor to himself" or to "climb up some other way". If we allow for extreme circumstances, let us be careful not to let the extremity become the ordinary.


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## Kevin (Jul 23, 2013)

Scott, this thread is like déjà vu for me. This is the first question I asked I. The PB 7 or so years ago.

Obviously at that time I was a layman. And now I am an ordained m
inister of the word and sacrament. 

The Presbyterian tradition has an uneasy relationship with lay preachers. Many communions , such as the ARP, PCC, The PCA the C of S , and many others explicitly allow for lay preaching. 
Others, as noted above do not.

The scriptures seem clear that all that preach must be approved, but that approval may come after the fact.


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## KMK (Jul 24, 2013)

scottmaciver said:


> Would you say unequivocally that those who are not ordained as elders are not to preach the Word in public worship?



Under what circumstances would a qualified preacher not be approved and called by a local church? I agree with Rev Ruddell's post, but I am racking my brain to come up with such an extraordinary circumstance. Stranded on a desert island, maybe?


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## scottmaciver (Jul 24, 2013)

Ken, the question didn't relate to qualified preachers more so those who aren't ministers or elders preaching in public worship. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Jul 24, 2013)

Dear Ken, 

The approval process of a congregation, in Presbyterian polity, is not the same as his ordination. A particular Church may refuse the ministry of a particular ordinand, if they can show just cause. Presbyterians do not foist the minister upon the people, seeing that they are required to be convinced of the minister's ability and calling to such an extent that they can follow his faith (Hebrews 13.7, 17). There may be times when this refusal carries with it knowledge that would require the presbytery to review the ordination and take further steps regarding the ordinand in question--we are not perfect, and neither are presbyteries. If "Synods and Councils may and have erred" then so can Presbyteries and Classes. It is possible that a presbytery has missed something, even something as important as would disqualify a man from ministry. It may be that the Church and ordinand in question may not be a good fit--this may be harder to settle, but it may be so. 

As for Churches not fully formed, I share Rutherford's view set forth in "A Peaceable and Temperate Plea" quoted by Mr. Williamson above, and commend it for anyone's reading. 

Good question, friend. Hope things are "all good" out there in Wrightwood.


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## jwithnell (Jul 24, 2013)

An elder may "exhort" in OPC circles. That might be splitting hairs a bit, but we had an elder who was gifted in teaching and the original language and was a welcomed addition to our pulpit. Whatever the language, the Presbyterian history is generally to closely guard the activity of preaching both to protect the congregation and the person who is taking on this responsibility.


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## KMK (Jul 24, 2013)

Thanks for helping me to understand. I assume that these kinds of extraordinary circumstances happen more often in Presbyterian circles?


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## jawyman (Jul 24, 2013)

jwithnell said:


> An elder may "exhort" in OPC circles. That might be splitting hairs a bit, but we had an elder who was gifted in teaching and the original language and was a welcomed addition to our pulpit. Whatever the language, the Presbyterian history is generally to closely guard the activity of preaching both to protect the congregation and the person who is taking on this responsibility.



JWithnell, this is what chapter II.A.3.a-c of the OPC BCO states (3.c is important):

3. The Preaching of God's Word

a. The preaching of the Word, the power of God unto salvation, is indispensable in the public worship of God. It is therefore a matter of supreme importance that the minister preach only the Word of God, not the wisdom of man, and that he handle the Word of God correctly, always setting forth Jesus Christ, the author and finisher of our faith. In the sermon, God addresses the congregation by the mouth of his servant, and through his Spirit opens the ears of his people.

b. The preacher shall prepare each sermon prayerfully and diligently. He may not use a text merely as a point of departure, but must take pains to expound the chosen text, bringing in other texts as applicable, carefully explaining the meaning, and diligently applying the particular text(s) for the salvation and edification of his hearers. He should take care in preaching that his exposition and application of the Scriptures be clear and simple, having regard to the capacity of the hearers, in demonstration of the Spirit and power, with fervor and zeal, and that he not divorce Christian duty from Christian faith.

The preacher must, as Christ's ambassador, seek to build up the saints in the most holy faith and beseech the unconverted to be reconciled to God. Nothing is more necessary than that the gospel of salvation by grace be proclaimed without any adulteration or compromise, in order that the hearers may learn to rely for salvation only on the grace of God in Christ, to the exclusion of their own works or character, ascribing all glory to God alone for their salvation. The preacher is to instruct his hearers in the whole counsel of God, exhort the congregation to more perfect obedience to Christ, and warn them of the sins and dangers that are around them and within them. A preacher fails to perform his task as a God-appointed watchman on Zion's walls who neglects to warn the congregation of prevalent soul-destroying teachings by enemies of the gospel.

*c. The session is to give diligence that no person enter the pulpit concerning whose soundness in doctrine and life, or knowledge of Scripture, there is reasonable doubt.*

So, so long as that rule ring elder is approved and exhorts occasionally, he is within Presbyterian polity.


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## scottmaciver (Jul 25, 2013)

I read the article by Dabney and it was well worth the read with some thought provoking points... 

We ought not to disapprove of witness efforts which have rescued sinners but we may mistrust the mode. Also that we ought to realise that God's blessing of lay preachers such as Moody doesn't represent sanction of their efforts in their entirety. I thought of the people desiring Christ to be crucified, which was a great evil but the Lord using it for good. Similarly Joseph's deliverance into slavery by his brothers.

The mode for gospel preaching has been ordained and the church is to be the 'pillar and ground of truth,' (1 Timothy 3:15.)

He mentioned the objection that might be made is that members of the church court in appointing men to preach are no more infallible than lay preachers. It seems a fair point at first although in response he deals with it well mentioning, 'in the multitude of counsellors is safety (Proverbs 11:14,) & the error of apostasy is less probable with more than one and that aggregate wisdom is better.

All good stuff!


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## jwithnell (Jul 25, 2013)

> So, so long as that rule ring elder is approved and exhorts occasionally, he is within Presbyterian polity.


 I by no means intended to question the soundness of our practice. I have been tremendously blessed by the consistency of the preaching and exhorting and have had no reason to doubt adherence to denominational standards. We are incredibly well fed and tended sheep.


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## scottmaciver (Jul 26, 2013)

In the article on lay preaching by Dabney, he mentions on page 7 that the probationer can be lawfully licenced by the Presbytery after a certain prescribed preparation.

What would the prescribed preparation consist of?


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Jul 26, 2013)

Each denomination has slightly different standards. These standards will be stated in their Books of Church Order, or Manuals of Practice. Presbytery grants a license to preach within their bounds, as it establishes and controls the pulpits in its jurisdiction. Normally some examination is required, the man will be a known commodity to Presbytery seeing that he is already under their care theologically.


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## jawyman (Jul 26, 2013)

jwithnell said:


> > So, so long as that rule ring elder is approved and exhorts occasionally, he is within Presbyterian polity.
> 
> 
> I by no means intended to question the soundness of our practice. I have been tremendously blessed by the consistency of the preaching and exhorting and have had no reason to doubt adherence to denominational standards. We are incredibly well fed and tended sheep.



I'm sorry. I by no means thought anything differently. I just wanted to share what the BCO said.


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