# Trusting Other People?



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 28, 2011)

Is there a sense in which we can trust other people? Is "Brotherly trust" a Biblical concept? Are we only forbidden to trust others in regards to _doctrine_? I would not, for example, give my children (if I had any) to my parents' care, because they could exploit them! When we build long relationships with other people, we often forget that we still are sinners and capable of heinous sins.

Please, share your own opinion. Thanks in advance!


----------



## Skyler (Jun 28, 2011)

What do you mean by "trusting" other people? I don't think you can go through life without trusting _somebody_--the mechanic who checked your car to make sure it was safe, the road crews who make sure the bridges are in good shape, etc. Obviously there is a sense in which we can trust other people.


----------



## JBaldwin (Jun 28, 2011)

I think trust has to do with expectation. We trust in the Lord, because He is completely reliable. God will not fail us. And it is true, in one sense, that people cannot be trusted, especially when they have proven to to untrustworthy over and over again. In another sense, we can put a certain amount of trust in someone who has proven to be reliable. I trust my husband to do what says he is going to do, because he loves me and as a rule does what he says he's going to do. But I also understand that my husband is a human being and will fail me at some point. In that sense, my trust is not in Him, but in the Lord.


----------



## Mindaboo (Jun 28, 2011)

For me trust comes with time. I would not hand my children over to my mom either. I know how wicked her heart is and that she would undermine my authority. I do however entrust people within my church with my children. 

I think trust is built over time. I like to sit back and watch behaviors. I have some friends who are just friends that I enjoy hanging out with but would never confide in. They show by their behavior that they aren't trustworthy. I really only have a handful of people that I truly trust totally and completely. 

I don't think the Scriptures address it specifically, but they certainly do give examples. Naomi trusted Ruth, Jonathan and David, the spies trusted Rahab, Esther and Mordecai, etc.


----------



## FenderPriest (Jun 28, 2011)

I'm not sure how trust can be divorced from love. If we are commanded to love our neighbor's, especially those in Christ, we must trust them until proven otherwise. To live a life not trusting others is to not love them, not to invite them into your life, and to fundamentally, not trust the Lord and live in unbelief. The Gospel demands that we give grace and believe the best about others and their intentions. I'm not sure how one could read and ingest the NT teaching on community and not trust others. It's inherent to loving them.


----------



## Theoretical (Jun 28, 2011)

I think trust AND discernment are both important traits. Discernment on who to trust is critical, but discerning trust in others is a reflection of one's trust in Him. Since the Lord works predominantly through secondary means for His glory and our good, one of the main means is through other of His people (and even those who aren't His people).

I've had to teach several believers whose trust in anyone has long been shattered by abuse and helping them to see His preservation of His people has helped them be able to reach out in faith towards those means He puts at their disposal. To the person being trusted, it's a massive, yet deeply sweet obligation, to help lift up a crushed soul.


----------



## Herald (Jun 28, 2011)

JBaldwin said:


> I think trust has to do with expectation. We trust in the Lord, because He is completely reliable. God will not fail us. And it is true, in one sense, that people cannot be trusted, especially when they have proven to to untrustworthy over and over again. In another sense, we can put a certain amount of trust in someone who has proven to be reliable. I trust my husband to do what says he is going to do, because he loves me and as a rule does what he says he's going to do. But I also understand that my husband is a human being and will fail me at some point. In that sense, my trust is not in Him, but in the Lord.



Very well said, sister. I've seen people crushed because their trust has been betrayed. This may be a reasonable response to severe breach of trust, but it belays our faith in God when it permeates our life.


----------



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 28, 2011)

FenderPriest said:


> I'm not sure how trust can be divorced from love. If we are commanded to love our neighbor's, especially those in Christ, we must trust them until proven otherwise. To live a life not trusting others is to not love them, not to invite them into your life, and to fundamentally, not trust the Lord and live in unbelief. The Gospel demands that we give grace and believe the best about others and their intentions. I'm not sure how one could read and ingest the NT teaching on community and not trust others. It's inherent to loving them.



With all due respect, Brother, I think you're confusing trust or expectation with treatment. What I mean is that I don't think we are to trust or expect that our fellow Brothers and Sisters are, indeed, saved, but rather treat them as such. It is not in our power to determine who is God's elect or not, so we really cannot put our trust in our own assumption of the state of our fellow believer.


----------



## Skyler (Jun 28, 2011)

Samuel, you seem to consider trust an all-or-nothing proposition rather than something which varies in degree. Am I right?


----------



## Mushroom (Jun 28, 2011)

Loving can't be equated with trusting, or we are being myopic about the beast that dwells within us all, that dead flesh. I can love my brother while understanding that he is not trustworthy.

Experience has taught this lesson to me well. I have no David to my Jonathan. I once did, and was left burned and broken. That will not come again easily.


----------



## Skyler (Jun 28, 2011)

Brad said:


> I have no David to my Jonathan.



The same David betrayed one of his most faithful servants.


----------



## Mindaboo (Jun 28, 2011)

> I'm not sure how trust can be divorced from love. If we are commanded to love our neighbor's, especially those in Christ, we must trust them until proven otherwise. To live a life not trusting others is to not love them, not to invite them into your life, and to fundamentally, not trust the Lord and live in unbelief. The Gospel demands that we give grace and believe the best about others and their intentions. I'm not sure how one could read and ingest the NT teaching on community and not trust others. It's inherent to loving them.



We are also called to love our enemies. I love my mom, my mother in law, and my sister in law, but I wouldn't trust them as far as I can throw them. All of them would tell you they love God.

I have to say I disagree with you. Trust and love are not the same. If my friends, children, or family betray me and I don't trust them it doesn't mean I love them less. It means they aren't reliable people who aren't worthy of my trust.


----------



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 28, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Samuel, you seem to consider trust an all-or-nothing proposition rather than something which varies in degree. Am I right?



It may be helpful to make a little distinction between _trust_ and _expectation_. I admit that I may have a 50% expectation in one thing, while the other half is resting on another thing. When I lend money to someone, I may _expect_ to get it back, considering the circumstances of the situation well. But would I _trust_ in that? Never! Because people are _sinners_ and that means they are _untrustworthy_. I pretty much consider trust as _betting_. Moreover, I think trust is always an _all-or-nothing_ bet. But consider this: I may put my trust in something that I don't expect to happen or be true. For a practical example, an ungodly person may trust/bet that he won't end up in hell, although his expectation is that he's definitely going there in the end (if there is such a thing as God, that is). And I would say many people in this world bet on things they well know are not possible. That is called _desperation_ and we see it a lot in casinos, for instance. Even I have experience of losing a lot of money, when I used to gamble. I was fully aware that I would, _in the long run_, end up losing my money, because I couldn't stop playing. But I didn't care. I was too proud to give up. I became desperate. I wouldn't listen to my intellect which was telling me to stop, but rather trusted in my own heart which told me to continue. But enough of that. I think I made my point clear; we often confuse _trust_ and _expectation_. But furthermore, we often confuse trust and expectation with _treatment_. I don't think we are to trust/bet on our expectation that a person is converted, but rather treat him as such. God doesn't expect anything but sin from us (and I'm glad for that!), but He's still committed to treat us as holy because of Christ.

Edit: But then again, we may do well to consider _what is at stake_ in our bet. Because I would agree to bet on for certain things _just for fun_, seeing the stakes are very low.


----------



## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 29, 2011)

How are we defining trust? I think the Bible gives us plenty of examples of great friendships. Jesus entrusted Judas as His "accountant" despite knowing his future. I don't think we can go through our lives not trusting anyone. Humans were made to live as a community of worshipers and part of being in a community is a certain level of trust. When I tell personal things to people I trust they won't tell them to other people. On the other hand, I don't just trust anyone.


----------



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 29, 2011)

Unashamed 116 said:


> When I tell personal things to people I trust they won't tell them to other people.



But here, you see, you're confusing _trust_ with _expectation_. It would be kinda foolish to _bet_ on other people that they won't sin. It is understandable, though, that you would _expect_ them not to tell anybody your personal data.

Edit: See it this way: trust is a _decision_, expectation is a _natural flow of logic_ in your head.


----------



## JBaldwin (Jun 29, 2011)

A couple of verses came to mind when I read this the first time, and I've thought about them again as I've read through this thread:

_Psalm118: 8, 9 "It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in man. It is better to take refuge in the Lord than to trust in princes."

Proverbs 3:5, 6 "Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths."_ 

The scriptures are full of passages that instruct us not to rely on man, but on the Lord. When it comes down to "trusting" others, it really comes down to making decisions based on God and His word. 

When it comes to trusting others, we have to understand the true nature of man and weigh all of our dealings with others in light of Scripture. There is a real freedom in that. We can interact with others, listen to their counsel, enjoy their fellowship, engage in business with them, etc. and weigh each encounter in light of God's word which is trustworthy. 

In other words, just because we put our trust in the Lord, it does not mean that we cut ourselves off from others. It just means that we base our decisions on God and His word.


----------



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 29, 2011)

I think the Biblical view is, as I've implied many times through this thread, that we are to treat our fellow believers as holy in Christ, which means to treat them as trustworthy. This is not to say, however, that we may put our trust in them, that is, make a decision of betting certain amount of stakes on their faithfulness -- because if we prove to be wrong, then we suffer a loss, and that is not a good thing. That is _gambling_ no matter how you look at it. And if you think gambling is wrong, then surely you cannot gamble with other people's trustworthiness.

And as I've illustrated before, God, in the same fashion, although He treats us as holy, trustworthy servants, does not put His trust in us or expect any obedience at all from us.


----------



## FenderPriest (Jun 29, 2011)

Mindaboo said:


> > I'm not sure how trust can be divorced from love. If we are commanded to love our neighbor's, especially those in Christ, we must trust them until proven otherwise. To live a life not trusting others is to not love them, not to invite them into your life, and to fundamentally, not trust the Lord and live in unbelief. The Gospel demands that we give grace and believe the best about others and their intentions. I'm not sure how one could read and ingest the NT teaching on community and not trust others. It's inherent to loving them.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think you do agree with me, but that you didn't take into consideration the remainder of my post. I'm not making a Love = Trust equation, but simply saying that trust is the initial posture of love. If people prove to be untrustworthy (like being your enemy, that usually comes with good reasons to not trust) it doesn't mean you don't love them. I agree there. But our inherent posture isn't to distrust people when Jesus call was to love, which is inherently patient and kind, it does not envy or boast, it is not arrogant or rude, or insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful; it does not rejoice at wrongdoing, but rejoices with the truth. Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.



InSlaveryToChrist said:


> With all due respect, Brother, I think you're confusing trust or expectation with treatment. What I mean is that I don't think we are to trust or expect that our fellow Brothers and Sisters are, indeed, saved, but rather treat them as such. It is not in our power to determine who is God's elect or not, so we really cannot put our trust in our own assumption of the state of our fellow believer.


I don't think I am, but I may be. I'll give it some thought. However, treating believers as though they are saved seems like a foreign category to Scripture. I'm not really sure that lines up with Paul's emphatic statement, "And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ" (Phil 1:6). Paul holds this attitude up as a good way of feeling about other believers, as an example of how one loves their fellow Christians. There's no aspect of "I'm not sure or trusting that you're saved, but I'll treat you like you are" sense about his words. In fact not only does Paul say it's good to be confident in God about their salvation, but he's sure of it. But, this may be going off in a direction you hadn't intended, so I'll leave my point there.


----------



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 29, 2011)

FenderPriest said:


> Mindaboo said:
> 
> 
> > > I'm not sure how trust can be divorced from love. If we are commanded to love our neighbor's, especially those in Christ, we must trust them until proven otherwise. To live a life not trusting others is to not love them, not to invite them into your life, and to fundamentally, not trust the Lord and live in unbelief. The Gospel demands that we give grace and believe the best about others and their intentions. I'm not sure how one could read and ingest the NT teaching on community and not trust others. It's inherent to loving them.
> ...



If God treats believers and their children as holy (due to the covenant established between God and Abraham and his seed), regardless of their faith, why would we not treat our fellow professing Christians as holy as well?


----------



## Skyler (Jun 29, 2011)

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> If God treats believers and their children as holy (due to the covenant established between God and Abraham and his seed), regardless of their faith, why would we not treat our fellow professing Christians as holy as well?



There is a sense in which God treats His covenant children as holy, but there is also a sense in which He recognizes our sin and chastises us for it.


----------



## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 29, 2011)

Skyler said:


> InSlaveryToChrist said:
> 
> 
> > If God treats believers and their children as holy (due to the covenant established between God and Abraham and his seed), regardless of their faith, why would we not treat our fellow professing Christians as holy as well?
> ...



By the way, has there been any similar threads to this in the past? I would assume that since the way we are to treat our fellow believers in Christ is quite important, it has been in discussion before.


----------

