# What does forgiveness look/feel/sound like?



## moselle (Jun 18, 2009)

If you have been truly wronged - grievously sinned against - what does forgiveness look like?

I don't want to go into great detail, but when the person asked me to forgive them, I really wasn't sure how to respond because I was / am still reeling just a bit from the revelation of the offense. I'm not angry (at this point) and I don't want revenge (at this point). At the same time, I know that it may be a while before I come to terms with the issue.

Any help / Scripture references that I might meditate on? How do I approach communion on the Lord's Day?


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## GTMOPC (Jun 18, 2009)

Looking forward to some good advice on this as well! What does true biblical forgiveness look like practically speaking?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 18, 2009)

Here is Jay Adams on the topic.
http://pilgrimchristian.blogspot.com/2005/12/what-is-forgiveness-jay-e-adams.html



> THE correct answer to the question at the head of this chapter is essential. In any study, a proper understanding of basic issues is important early on as a foundation on which to build structures of truth. That is certainly the case when considering forgiveness. Until this basic question has been satisfactorily addressed, you will address other questions regarding forgiveness either unsatisfactorily or not at all.
> 
> I'm not so sure I see your point. Doesn't everyone know what forgiveness is? Why, when someone has wronged me, I expect him to come and apologize. Then I tell him, "That's OK." That's forgiveness isn't it?
> 
> ...



Here is a position paper on the subject from Dennis Gundersen's Church that I know about. He also owns Grace and Truth books.

http://www.grace4u.org/Topical/Christian%20Forgiveness_DH.htm 

http://www.graceandtruthbooks.com/


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## WaywardNowHome (Jun 18, 2009)

Wow. Thanks Martin! Jay's thoughts on the matter have really made me re-consider my own ideas regarding forgiveness.


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## lynnie (Jun 18, 2009)

We have had that happen.

I had to instantly forgive, but we also told the person that if they did not seek counsel and accountability we would consider them as unrepentant and we would go to the pastor( or somebody else) about it. Once we forgave a missionary who committed adultery, but insisted he tell his wife immediately and his higher ups (which he did, and he resigned and took a secular job). 

Another time it was bad p0rn. Repentance required admitting it to the guys at a small group and getting some biblical counseling. (it had a marvelously happy ending).

_To not remember is simply a graphic way of saying, I will not bring up these matters to you or others in the future. _ Well, maybe. What if they tell you a sin that you know can hurt the family eventually ( cocaine), and they don't seek serious help, should you just forgive and say nothing?

There was a stinking mess on the blogs about a denomination I won't name where a boy molested a girl and the parents and small group were urged to forgive. Uh huh. So they all had to forgive and not say anything. Then he goes and rapes a three year old girl. So we are supposed to just forgive a pedophile and say nothing? I doubt it. You don't "forgive and forget" when it means you fail to protect children.

I had two people in my current church apologize to me about things they said, and I was so happy to forgive and everything be fine. When people really are sorry, you are glad to forgive. If you are having such a hard time, it may be that you can tell they are not really sorry. You still have to forgive, but it doesn't mean you can't go to them and say "I don't think you have repented, would you be willing to talk to the pastor/counseling person/elder with me about this?" Can't hurt to try. Maybe the pastor will say the problem is you, but maybe he'll say it is them...or a combination. (If people's sin is a repeat of things in your past you can overreact. I can handle somebody practically lobbing a nuclear bomb at me, but certain things that to my husband would be insignificant just pull my triggers). 

Just my opinion. I am still thinking this through. But if kids are involved, you may need to say something.


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## Curt (Jun 18, 2009)

Been there, friend. As a pastor, it is often the congregation that dispenses the big hurts. Forgiveness is not easy (especially for me), but it is required - or we cannot move on.

I'm praying for you.


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## P.F. (Jun 18, 2009)

On this topic I turn back to the Lord's prayer. In our prayers that follow that model we request forgiveness of sins as we forgive those who sin against us. With that in mind, we should be motivated to treat our fellow sinner with maximal clemency, just as we wish to receive full and complete forgiveness from God.

Pink, discussing this portion of the Lord's prayer wrote:

Our Lord teaches us to confirm this petition with an argument: as we forgive our debtors." First, Christ teaches us to argue from a like disposition in ourselves: whatever good there be in us must first be in God, for He is the sum of all excellency; if, then, a kindly disposition has been planted in our hearts by His Holy Spirit, the same must be found in Him. Second, we are to reason with God from the lesser to the greater: if we, who have but a drop of mercy, can forgive the offenses done to us, surely God, who is a veritable Ocean of mercy, will forgive us. Third, we are to argue from the condition of those who may expect pardon: we are sinners who, out of a sense of God’s mercy to us, are disposed to show mercy to others; hence, we are morally qualified for more mercy, seeing that we have not abused the mercy we have already received. They who would rightly pray to God for pardon must pardon those who wrong them. Joseph (Gen. 50:14-21) and Stephen (Acts 7:60) are conspicuous examples. We need to pray much for God to remove all bitterness and malice from our hearts against those who wrong us. But to forgive our debtors does not exclude our rebuking them, and, where public interests are involved, having them prosecuted. It would be my duty to hand over a burglar to a policeman, or to go to law against one who was able but who refused to pay me (Rom. 13:1-8). If a fellow citizen is guilty of a crime and I do not report it, then I become an accessory to that crime. I thus betray a lack of love for him and for society (Lev. 19:17, 18).


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## BJClark (Jun 18, 2009)

The verses that come to my mind in regards to forgiveness are Matthew 6:14-15 the two verses right after the Lords Prayer..

Mat 6:14 For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: Mat 6:15 But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses. 

God forgives us a Multitude of sins, who are we not to forgive when others sin against us? Even if they never come to know God, that may be the only forgiveness they ever know..where they are shown God's grace in such a way

And then I always consider how many people have I sinned against, even unknowingly? would I want them to harbor that un-forgiveness towards me? 

Or would I want God not to forgive me the sins I have committed against Him? My sin's towards God and others are just as vile, as sins committed against me.


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## WaywardNowHome (Jun 18, 2009)

Question on my mind: Is repentance a prerequisite for forgiveness? Surely repentance (and belief) is a requirement for God's forgiveness of our sins, yes? Does that apply to man-man forgiveness as well?


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## Mushroom (Jun 18, 2009)

> Mar 11:25 And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.


This is something I've been having to figure out. Sounds like there are no prerequisites. Anything includes even the worst offenses, anyone includes the unrepentant unregenerate, does it not?

I know that can't mean we're to expose ourselves or our loved ones to repeated abuses, but what exactly does it mean?


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## moselle (Jun 18, 2009)

Thank you - the person has already sought counsel and accountability from an elder and has begun working through what it means to repent. Fortunately, the damage is limited to our own hearts and relationship with each other and God. It is a relationship that simply MUST be healed through the power of the Holy Spirit, and I believe God has been gracious to us in beginning that work already.


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## BJClark (Jun 18, 2009)

I don't know why people assume forgiving means you MUST trust a person again, even if they are repentant..God tells us not to trust men, but to trust HIM!!

Do I trust someone I know has molested a child to watch my child?? NO!! God has given me wisdom--can I forgive them? certainly, but I don't have to trust them to watch my children when I know that is an area of sin THEY struggle with?

That would be disrespectful to them by placing them in a situation where they may be tempted to sin, and placing a child in harms way, so in such cases I show more love and respect for them by understanding the struggle of their sin..by NOT allowing them to watch my children or other children..which may cause them to stumble.


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## BJClark (Jun 19, 2009)

Brad;



> Anything includes even the worst offenses, anyone includes the unrepentant unregenerate, does it not?



Yes it does..



> I know that can't mean we're to expose ourselves or our loved ones to repeated abuses, but what exactly does it mean?



It means learning to set healthy boundaries on what you will accept and what you won't; its a matter of knowing which situations you can be around them and which you can't, and then standing firm in those things.

For example: if a person is verbally abusive towards you in private but not in public, then you refrain from meeting with them privately, always meet w/ them in a public setting. If they have no qualms about being abusive in public, then when they start getting abusive you tell them.."If you continue acting this way I'm going to leave." and if they stop wonderful, but the first time they start back up..You get up and walk away. Allow them to suffer the consequences of not being able to fellowship with you and your family.

If they are at your home and they get this way, then you ask them to leave, IF they refuse to leave, you have the recourse of calling the police and allowing them to remove them if necessary. Yes, that may sound mean, but it's not, even if it's a family member--as it's your home and you do not need to accept that treatment in YOUR home. You can even let them know, before they come over, IF they do such such..they will be asked to leave, even letting them know that if they refuse to leave after being asked, you will call the police and have them removed. That way they know before hand what the consequences of such behavior will be, and then they can choose to come over or not..and if they choose to come over then they are forwarded of what is expected of them and what will happen if they refuse to comply with those expectations.

Much like if you know a person is a drunkard then you only agree to meet with them when they are sober..if they are addicted to drugs, you only meet with them when they are clean.

People seem to think boundaries are like walls that keep everyone out, when they are really like fences with a gate, that allow certain people in while keeping others out. 

I'd really recommend the book Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud

Denver Seminary > Articles > Boundaries


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## BobVigneault (Jun 19, 2009)

One thing we often miss when we discuss forgiving somebody is the fact that forgiveness costs something.

Let's say you owe me $50 and you just can't pay it. I can take you to small claims court and have the law force you to pay or I can forgive your debt. If I forgive your debt, guess what, it cost me $50 dollars. It wasn't just an emotional or mental gymnastic, it was a deliberate act of accounting and there was a cost to the one forgiving.

If I hurt you in some way and then ask you to forgive me, what happens to that hurt? Either you absorb it or you refuse, deciding that I should be the one who gets hurt. If I ask you to forgive me $10,000 dollars maybe you cannot afford it and you would have no choice but to take me to court. Your emotional hurt might be too large as well. (Please understand that I'm speaking in practical terms.) Perhaps you can't afford to forgive me right now.

The Bible tells us that we are obligated to forgive because God forgives us first. Christ absorbed the wrath of God for the sins that cause all the hurts; Christ covered the cost, but don't hate yourself if you can't forgive someone readily. That hurt may be more than you can absorb right now. You will meditate on the promises of God and you will take your hurt to the cross and eventually you will be able to forgive. Forgiveness is a means of being made free and resting on God's promises but it is also a function of our sanctification and it may take time.


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## Scott1 (Jun 19, 2009)

Forgiveness, and repentance are beautiful things.

They are evidence that God is truly working in the life of someone.

Repentance involves confessing wrong, by God's grace, forsaking it going forward, and by God's grace making restitution/reconciliation as much as it is within that person's power.

Once a person has repented, they are forgiven in God's sight and can be free of it, really.

We should readily receive repentance, even while it is in process, presume the best, particularly for those in the household of faith. In many cases it is more, sometimes much more, than admitting wrong. It requires suffering to make it right. God blesses and helps those who seek to do that, particularly to honor and glorify Him.


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