# The Restoration of the Kingdom of Israel and Acts 1:6-8



## Willem van Oranje (Sep 2, 2010)

In Acts 1:6, Jesus disciples ask him when the Kingdom of Israel will be restored...


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## jwithnell (Sep 2, 2010)

I understand several things to be going on in this passage: 

1. Christ's kingdom in the current age was to be established as soon as Christ ascended into heaven to sit at the right hand of God. 
2. The church would be empowered to carry out its mission to expand the kingdom to all nations at Pentecost. 
3. Many Jews were still looking for a return to an earthly kingdom, like David's. Our savior was looking forward to the day when many Jews would be brought into the kingdom (I pounded my head against Romans 11 half of this summer before agreeing with John Murray et. al. that this is a future event). 
4. There will be a day when Christ comes again in judgment -- I think the ambiguity of the passage you cited stems from scripture's repeated warning that we cannot be complacent in our faith or actions, that we don't know when we will either personally die or Christ will return.


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## Peairtach (Sep 3, 2010)

Don't be put off by amils and premils and those who don't believe in a future national conversion of the Jews when they say that we don't know when Christ is returning and so since He could be returning tonight we can't say that there will be a national conversion of the Jews.

Many amils and premills have embraced the notion that the world _could_ end tonight or tomorrow morning as a fundamental article of faith. 

Even some postmils and those who believe in a national conversion of the Jews hold to it. Maybe they feel that they are thus being tentative in their interpretations of difficult eschatalogical Qs. 

A careful examination of all the Scriptural data, shows that although we don't know when Christ's Advent at the Eschaton is to be, He Himself has given indications to His people in Scripture when it is _not_ to be.

The Second Advent of Christ, anyway, partakes of "the already ....not yet" of biblical eschatology, and even in some of Christ's parables the day of reckoning is indicated to be for some (many) at their death.

Christ only comes as a thief in the night - whether at death or at his Parousia at the Eschaton - for unbelievers, and not for believers (I Thess. 5:4-5).

The Kingdoms of this World - not only the Land of Israel/Palestine - have been given to Christ as part of His reward by His Father, and Christ is taking possession of them by the conversion of the nations to become part of the international nation of the Israel of God.

Both the concept of Israel as a people has expanded (in the New Covenant you don't have to be a Jew or become a Jew to be part of the Israel of God), and "Israel" as a territory (see e.g. Psalm 72:8 cf. Genesis 15:8).

No doubt that patch of ground in the Levant will always be important to ethnic Jews, as Scotland is to the Scots, and America is to the Americans, but they will get a more balanced perspective on it all, and their relationship to the Arabs, when they nationally turn to Christ.


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 3, 2010)

Richard Tallach said:


> Don't be put off by amils and premils and those who don't believe in a future national conversion of the Jews when they say that we don't know when Christ is returning and so since He could be returning tonight we can't say that there will be a national conversion of the Jews.
> 
> Many amils and premills have embraced the notion that the world _could_ end tonight or tomorrow morning as a fundamental article of faith.
> 
> ...


 
Richard,

I don't see these two points as contradictory: A. that a great conversion of the ethnic Jews, and of all nations is prophesied before Christ returns (Romans 11) and B. Christ's return is immanent, even at the door. God is able to make a nation born anew in one day. I don't pretend to know at the moment whether or not God has regenerated the entire citizenry of political Israel this morning while I was in the office. Therefore I can't say whether or not Christ will come before I get home. 

But having said that, I don't think this topic has much to do with Acts 1:6ff. My point is that Jesus seems to have been answering the question directly, not changing the subject, and he pointed the apostles to Pentecost. This passage is presenting Pentecost as the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel. Isn't that amazing?


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## Peairtach (Sep 3, 2010)

> This passage is presenting Pentecost as the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel. Isn't that amazing?



It is. But I would say that it was only the beginning of the restoration of the kingdom to Israel or the kingdom was restored to Israel _in principle_. Realised eschatology doesn't exclude progress. There has been progress since eschatology was realised at Pentecost and in the judgment on Jerusalem.

Eschatology was realised 2,000 years ago, but now we have true Christians in every corner of the Globe, ready for another phase in the progress of Christ's kingdom.

_There is a handful of corn in the earth, On the top of mountains, Shake like Lebanon doth its fruit, And they flourish out of the city as the herb of the earth. (Young's Literal Translation, Psalm 72:16)_



> Richard,
> 
> I don't see these two points as contradictory: A. that a great conversion of the ethnic Jews, and of all nations is prophesied before Christ returns (Romans 11) and B. Christ's return is immanent, even at the door. God is able to make a nation born anew in one day. I don't pretend to know at the moment whether or not God has regenerated the entire citizenry of political Israel this morning while I was in the office. Therefore I can't say whether or not Christ will come before I get home.



It's contradictory to believing that Antichrist (the Papacy) will be overthrown, the Jews converted, all nations converted, a long period of Christian ascendency and world conversion, statist and ecclesiastical persecution brought to an end, world peace and prosperity and then a final apostasy, will all happen before the Second Advent and the Eschaton.

But this is what I believe. See e.g. Hodge's and Dabney's Systematic Theologies.

It's significant that neither our Lord in Acts 1, nor the Apostle Paul in Romans 9-11 mention the return of the Jews to the Land of Israel/Palestine - or part thereof - as being significant.

However, Our Lord sends His Apostles to the Jews and Samaritans (Israelites mixed with Gentiles) first, and the Apostle mentions the conversion of the Jews with a doxology.


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 8, 2010)

Update: Calvin's insights on Pentecost and the restoration of the Kingdom of Israel in Acts 1:6-8


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 13, 2010)

Richard Tallach said:


> > Richard,
> >
> > I don't see these two points as contradictory: A. that a great conversion of the ethnic Jews, and of all nations is prophesied before Christ returns (Romans 11) and B. Christ's return is immanent, even at the door. God is able to make a nation born anew in one day. I don't pretend to know at the moment whether or not God has regenerated the entire citizenry of political Israel this morning while I was in the office. Therefore I can't say whether or not Christ will come before I get home.
> 
> ...


 
How is it contradictory? Isn't God able to do all this in one day, even while we are sleeping or busy doing other things? I don't see that any of this necessitates a long period of time before the parousia of Christ.


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## Peairtach (Sep 13, 2010)

A long period of Gospel blessedness when the Apostate Church is removed, when the Church is mature in all nations, when the Jews are converted, when all the nations are deeply Christianised and recognise Christ and His laws, when there is World peace, and then at the end there is a final apostasy, by its very definition requires a long period of time. See e.g. Dabney's account of it.

You can't have a long period of Gospel blessedness and fruition overnight.

We don't know when Christ is returning physically and visibly, and we don't know when He is returning for us in death, but we know that He's not returning physically and visibly until He has put all His enemies under His feet by the Gospel.

This teaching that the world _might_ end in the next moment - as I'm typing this - is part of premillennial and amillennial dogma. It's so ingrained that no-one questions it, apart from some postmils.

The world - or my world - might well end _for me_ as I'm typing this. But the Bible tells God's people that many things must happen before the End of the World, some of which haven't occurred and can't occur overnight.


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 13, 2010)

Richard Tallach said:


> A long period of Gospel blessedness when the Apostate Church is removed, when the Church is mature in all nations, when the Jews are converted, when all the nations are deeply Christianised and recognise Christ and His laws, when there is World peace, and then at the end there is a final apostasy, by its very definition requires a long period of time. See e.g. Dabney's account of it.
> 
> You can't have a long period of Gospel blessedness and fruition overnight.
> 
> ...


 
Just not sure biblically where you are getting this idea of a "long period" from, or "World peace." Where is this coming from? I expect that be best is yet to come. I am looking forward to the conversion of the Jews and of the nations. It may be over a long period of time. Or it may be in a short space of time. I don't see where the Scriptural evidence indicates one way or the other. We have already been in the millennium for a "long time", ever since Pentecost began. I am postmilennial, but I don't believe in a future "golden age." For all I know, the return of Christ could be tomorrow, and I would not be surprised.

I'll have to check out Dabney some time. I do not own his systematic theology.


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## Peairtach (Sep 13, 2010)

Dabney's Systematic Theology is online.

The Apostle Paul says the conversion of the Jews will be like life from the dead for the Gentiles, and will compare favourably with the effect on the Gentiles of their falling away. I don't see how this could happen overnight?

The Book of Isaiah teaches that the nations will turn their swords into ploughshares. To be removed, either this has to be completely spiritualised with no wider implications, or launched into the eternal realm.


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## Willem van Oranje (Sep 13, 2010)

Richard Tallach said:


> Dabney's Systematic Theology is online.
> 
> The Apostle Paul says the conversion of the Jews will be like life from the dead for the Gentiles, and will compare favourably with the effect on the Gentiles of their falling away. I don't see how this could happen overnight?



I don't see any reason why it couldn't. That's all I'm saying. God is powerful enough to do this overnight, if he so wills. 



> The Book of Isaiah teaches that the nations will turn their swords into ploughshares. To be removed, either this has to be completely spiritualised with no wider implications, or launched into the eternal realm.



So they are literally going to be melting down rifles and cannon barrels before Christ returns? I don't see how this squares with Jesus teaching that persecution will continue until the end.


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## Peairtach (Sep 14, 2010)

_So they are literally going to be melting down rifles and cannon barrels before Christ returns? I don't see how this squares with Jesus teaching that persecution will continue until the end. _

The particular passage in Isaiah is more to do with the end of war rather than persecution.

Will every child of God be persecuted by the State until the end? There are many children of God who have never been persecuted by the State already and don't we often thank God for that? Shouldn't freedom from persecution by the State and freedom to practise Christianity be extended around World, and not just enjoyed by us in the West?

Which passage about persecution by our Lord were you thinking of?




> Quote Originally Posted by Richard Tallach View Post
> Dabney's Systematic Theology is online.
> 
> The Apostle Paul says the conversion of the Jews will be like life from the dead for the Gentiles, and will compare favourably with the effect on the Gentiles of their falling away. I don't see how this could happen overnight?
> I don't see any reason why it couldn't. That's all I'm saying. God is powerful enough to do this overnight, if he so wills.



It would take longer to compare favourably with the millions accross the last 2,000 years that have been converted because of the apostasy of the Jews.

The erroneous doctrine is that because we don't know when Jesus Second Advent is, his Second Advent could happen _at any moment _. We can't even say that the World has got a night left.

A careful study of the particular passages produces a different view. We don't know when Christ is going to return, but He gives us indications of when He's _not_ going to return.


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## Bern (Sep 14, 2010)

Willem van Oranje said:


> I am postmilennial, but I don't believe in a future "golden age." For all I know, the return of Christ could be tomorrow, and I would not be surprised.
> 
> I'll have to check out Dabney some time. I do not own his systematic theology.



Doesn't that make you optimistic Amil?


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## Peairtach (Sep 14, 2010)

I wouldn't call it a "Golden Age", but rather a "Silver Age". 

Even although the Two Great Beasts of Civil and Ecclesiatical error and persecution mentioned in the Book of Revelation will be defeated, even although apostate Christianity (Babylon) will be brought to nought, even although the nation-states as nation-states will acknowledge Christ, even although there will be world peace, there still will be sin, suffering and death.

The Golden Age is the Heavenly Eschatalogical Kingdom (Heaven and the New Heavens and the New Earth).

For some Christians even living today at the same time in different parts of the world, things are more Silver in their lives, than Bronze.


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