# Church Small groups question



## CatherineL (Jun 2, 2009)

I would love if some of those with small children could share what they do, and what works for them, regarding involvement in church "small groups" (or cell groups, community groups, etc).

My family has three young children - 4, 2, and 1. We've been involved in a church small group since we moved to the area back when our youngest was about a year. Since our kids have grown and we're having more, we're starting to wonder what is really practical to do regarding involvement in small groups. Right now the way they have it set up is that the older girls help watch the little ones (though little babies stay with moms) but there have been questions as to whether this is appropriate. We've been thinking of bowing out, but that was met with a lot of freaking out from other people in the group. I guess I'm just wondering what other churches do and what other families do. I asked this question over at the Mothers of many young siblings board and the overwhelming answer was "we just don't do it." We do family worship with our kids, memorizing scripture and catechism questions, reading from the Bible, singing, and praying. 

Thoughts? Thanks in advance!


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## he beholds (Jun 2, 2009)

We go in seasons. Our dynamics sound similar to yours: An almost three year old, a one and a half year old, and a baby to be born in Dec (DV!). At different stages in their development, we are able to go. But sometimes sleep just won't wait, and we stop going for a few months. For a while we had a babysitter where we each paid five dollars to but now our group has chosen to have a very relaxed atmosphere with children involved. It means that we have stopped doing in-depth studies, but rather meet for a small potluck and fellowship around the food, sing some hymns, and then our elder or another man leads a small devotion. It is very nice, but I prefer the chapter book with homework assignment approach, since it is deeper. When we first started (our son was 10 weeks old), we were studying the Confession and still had children with us. So I guess we've done it several ways: Deep book, with kids; Deep Book, without kids; No book, with kids. 

Again, we have had times where we just didn't go, and did not feel guilty about it. It can be a great thing, but not something to which your conscience should be bound (in my opinion!).


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## Knoxienne (Jun 2, 2009)

We don't have children, but I remember the first reformed church we were in had what we called "Grace Group" where a few families (everyone in the church was invited, though) got together on a Wednesday night at the pastor's house. Everyone was together in the living room and we sang a few hymns or psalms and then the pastor taught to everyone out of the Bible, going through a book, engaging the little children with the Children's Catechism and at the same time answering theology questions of the adults and older children with the WCF, Catechism, etc. After that we'd close in prayer, going around in a circle, still including the children who could talk and then we'd have a dessert/snack and fellowship, getting to know each other in the church. After the meeting, if the children wanted to play in the pastor's childrens' rooms they could, but after the singing, study and prayer time. I miss it so much!  

When Bill and I have family devotions, we include everyone and everyone is invited to ask questions and pray before he closes us. I think the key to any sort of church group get-together is active integration of the family so that everyone is involved, since everyone in the Christian family is a part of the covenant. While I actively encourage young girls to take care of the younger children in preparation for motherhood, I don't like the idea of separating the children in church or at church functions during the teaching, and thus separating the young girls so they can care for the babies. Everyone should be together, when possible.

I hope that helps!


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## he beholds (Jun 2, 2009)

Toni's post made me realize that I might not have been clear. The babysitter that we had was a student of one of the members in our group, not her daughter. She was only there for babysitting and did not belong to our church. I do think if there were older children in a group that they should be there!
The oldest kid in our group, when we had the babysitter, was three. And how we worked each meeting was that the men took turns preparing a lesson on the book we were working through. When it was my husband's week for teaching, I prepared a lesson for the children. We were going through Clowney's _How Jesus Transforms the Ten Commandments_, and each chapter was on a Commandment, so the wives would teach the children on whatever Commandment we were on that week. Then we would sing and pray, and then excuse the kids to the babysitter.


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## LawrenceU (Jun 3, 2009)

Our congregation is a small group at present. We have nine families and meet in homes. All of the children from infants to young adults are present for the entire meeting. If one of them gets unruly or needs attention then a parent or older sibling takes them aside to another room deals with the situation and returns. It is a good practice and discipline for children to learn to be in such a setting, sit still, and pay attention. Many folks are surprised at how much a very young child can learn about God's word and relationship is doing this.


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## CatherineL (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks for the replies, they are all very helpful. 

My husband likes the idea of having everyone together, and I agree. We both know though that most people like having the more intensive times of prayer and accountability, and don't feel comfortable having their younger kids present for that. Mine are so young that it wouldn't bother me as long as the men and women are separate- we do confession time during family worship so I'm used to humbling myself before a 4 year old (mommy didn't have a soft answer today... etc  )

Lawrence, that's a very good point about training kids to participate in the service. Our church does not do children's church and encourages kids to be out of the nursery and in the service by age 4 - and most people tend to train them to be in the service from age 2 and only take them out when they're having a bad morning. I think the main concern was the kids tracking with a more adult lesson, and then being there for the prayer time, which is very honest and I know especially in the men's group tends to handle some pretty heavy topics. I suppose its just a reality that if you have everyone together its not going to be quite as intensive. 

This is exactly what I was hoping for - our pastor asked for suggestions as to how to re-orient the study to be more family friendly. Its getting pretty big now anyway, so maybe it would be a good time to split. I think the family inclusive study would be a wonderful option to have - you don't see that very often in churches today. 

Again, thanks for the imput!


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## Montanablue (Jun 3, 2009)

Just to add my  I really don't like the idea of having the younger girls watch the children separately while everyone else participates. I had to do this as a young girl at many church functions, and I don't think it was a good situation because:

(a. Church functions were relaxing and fun for everyone else, but just a lot of work for me and my friends. We were always exhausted by the end of it, because we had been riding herd on other people's children. I grew to dread church functions and small groups.

(b. Girls need the education that they will receive in the small group. We had a recent thread discussing why women may not discuss theology as much and I think this is one of the reasons for that. Girls in the church are often relegated to the nursery or another child care position when they really should be sitting and learning with everyone else.


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## he beholds (Jun 3, 2009)

We keep our children with us for worship service, unless the littler one looks like she'll sleep in the crib in the nursery.

We do have a playgroup that meets twice a month for the women, with the second meeting of the month being a time for teaching. During the second meeting of the month, we do have young girls and boys from the church watch the kids. It would literally be impossible to have the kind of teaching that we do (not necessarily because of subject matter, but more because of space and attention required of infants and toddlers) if all of the children were in the room with us. But women are free to keep their own children if desired. 
Kathleen, would you have felt embittered against babysitting if the situation was like this? I just assumed that the teenagers who are there wanted to be there, but maybe not. 
I can see what you are saying, and others, but this is not family worship, nor is it a fun picnic for everyone but the teenagers. This is a specific time for women to fellowship. The older kids who do keep the younger ones do get paid, so for them I assume it is simply a job and not a function that they are being excluded from--at least I hope so. 
What do you think? Thanks!


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## Herald (Jun 3, 2009)

We encourage parents to keep their children with them during worship. If they must, we have access to the school gymnasium in the event their child needs special attention. Small groups are run the same way. Bring your children and take them aside if you need to attend to their needs.


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## LawrenceU (Jun 3, 2009)

Don't worry about going over the heads of the children with deep Bible Study. They need to see that take place; and their heads are not as low as most think.

As to confession and prayer: there are times when it is not suitable for young children to be present, but that is usually in a group of divided sex meetings anyway at a different time. I have deep reservations about the divulging of deep secret sin in the presence of a larger mixed sex group of people. That is better done in a smaller intimate setting, In my humble opinion. I've been involved with small group studies for more than twenty years. While the impetus of such candid confession may have all the best of intentions I've almost never seen it result in a healthy group. I'm in no way advocating putting up a face; rather, I'm advocating propriety. Frankly, there are usually people in the group who are not mature enough to handle such information properly. And, those folks can surprise you in who they are.


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## FenderPriest (Jun 3, 2009)

Small group attendance is a requirement for membership in our church - and we call them "Community Groups." It is where people are encouraged to live their lives in Christian community, to digest the preached Word together, meet each others needs, first emergency response, etc. Personally, I think this is a good system, and I think most churches would benefit from it. Our church treats these as little churches within the local church. Community Group leaders are effectively deacons, and are the means of pastoral care to the people within the church. (Also, I want to note that our church is a 1,200-1,500 member church - but community groups are done throughout most Sovereign Grace Ministries churches.)

Within our community group, there are smaller groups of people called fellowship group. A typical community group is around 8-15 couples (16-30 people + children), so we split into smaller groups of 4-5 couples for more effective time together. Childcare for ends up being half of one fellowship group watching the children while the rest of the community group worships and has fellowship group discussion. For our group, there are three fellowship groups, so for example, last night the ladies in my fellowship group watched the kids while the rest of the group had time together. It works our pretty well for us. We meet twice a month (first and third Tuesdays), and so (with the present numbers) you have "child care" once ever three months, or four times a year. It works out well I think. Some community groups in our church get baby-sitters, but that can be unpredictable and cause more of a problem than it actually helps. Our meeting starts at 7:30 and goes until 9 - after that, the kids start melting down. 

Anyhow, that's how we do the practical elements of small groups.


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## Montanablue (Jun 3, 2009)

he beholds said:


> We keep our children with us for worship service, unless the littler one looks like she'll sleep in the crib in the nursery.
> 
> We do have a playgroup that meets twice a month for the women, with the second meeting of the month being a time for teaching. During the second meeting of the month, we do have young girls and boys from the church watch the kids. It would literally be impossible to have the kind of teaching that we do (not necessarily because of subject matter, but more because of space and attention required of infants and toddlers) if all of the children were in the room with us. But women are free to keep their own children if desired.
> Kathleen, would you have felt embittered against babysitting if the situation was like this? I just assumed that the teenagers who are there wanted to be there, but maybe not.
> ...



I wouldn't have felt embittered against babysitting as long as I was asked and had consented. The context of my situation was that anytime there was a church function (church picnic, small group, Bible study, baby shower etc), families automatically handed over their kids to the girls ages 12-18. These were situations in which the girls would have benefited from the fellowship or teaching. And, I think what made it worse, was that our brothers of the same age participated fully so we really knew what we were missing out on. 

Since then, I've volunteered to work in the nursery or watch children, and I don't mind it one bit. And if I'm being paid, its definitely fine! In your situation, it doesn't sound like you're taking advantage of the young people at all.  I really think the key is to just ask before assuming and then to make sure that the same young people aren't always being excluded from all events. As Toni said, I do think that having young people care for the children is VERY beneficial. We just need to make sure that we aren't consistently keeping them from teaching and fellowship.

-----Added 6/3/2009 at 11:46:21 EST-----



> Within our community group, there are smaller groups of people called fellowship group. A typical community group is around 8-15 couples (16-30 people + children), so we split into smaller groups of 4-5 couples for more effective time together. Childcare for ends up being half of one fellowship group watching the children while the rest of the community group worships and has fellowship group discussion. For our group, there are three fellowship groups, so for example, last night the ladies in my fellowship group watched the kids while the rest of the group had time together. It works our pretty well for us. We meet twice a month (first and third Tuesdays), and so (with the present numbers) you have "child care" once ever three months, or four times a year. It works out well I think. Some community groups in our church get baby-sitters, but that can be unpredictable and cause more of a problem than it actually helps. Our meeting starts at 7:30 and goes until 9 - after that, the kids start melting down.



I just wanted to say that this sounds like a good system. Childcare is provided so that the adults can study harder topics in peace, but no one is consistently left out of the discussion.


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## he beholds (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks, Kathleen! OK, what happened to you was rotten, though not completely unpredictable :/ Hopefully I won't be one of those moms--I don't see that happening since I don't hand my kids off very easily! 
Our situation is totally different, as these teens only come there to babysit! Usually their mothers aren't even ones that come! So for them, I am assuming it is voluntary or at least instructed by their parents. I think it is just a way for homeschool kids to make some money while helping us out. 

Thanks for explaining so I'm not worried about these kids in our church!


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## CatherineL (Jun 3, 2009)

Thanks Kathleen, that's good to keep in mind. In our group we started out rotating childcare by couple - each mom and dad took a turn to be on kid duty, kind of like Jacob's group, but much smaller. Our problem was when our numbers shrank (once couple moved, another went on deployment) we had so few people coming that with one couple doing kids there may only be 2 people left in the study. I was okay with that, since I like small gatherings, but we often canceled because of it. Then we had a couple of the 12-13 year old girls say that they would like the babysitting experience of having responsibility over the kids. So we've done that for about 9 months now. But now some of the girls would rather have their own group or be in the ladies group. The groups are small, maybe 5 men or ladies. The focus is supposed to be discipleship, thus the accountability thing. I know the men are way more raw and honest - I guess us ladies tend to not go into detail as much - but even so some of the ladies with 12-13 year olds don't want their girls participating in that, maybe because they share struggles with sin regarding their families (like say a critical spirit towards a spouse, not deep dark details). My husband and I are staunchly against mixed sex confession/accountability, and I believe our pastor is too. 

Jessi, I love the idea of the mom's playgroup. There's nothing like that at present, I think because most of the really involved families homeschool and can't add anything to their days. But lately we've had lots of younger families join that have only one or two babies/toddlers and it seems that would really fill a need. I'll look into that! 

So its still a quandary. I think right now they have asked the girls who really *wants* to help with kids, and one gal volunteered. I talked to her mom and she seems like she sincerely wants to do it as a ministry, so she will be helping with my 2 year old and the other toddler in the group tonight. We are meeting again tonight and I'm glad to be able to bring some ideas for the others to consider. Thanks for all the imput!


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## BJClark (Jun 3, 2009)

Our church has many of these that meet on Sunday night, and the church has a children's program they offer during that time frame--various adults volunteer to teach the children during those hours on Sunday nights..and then those who teach the children meet on another night for their own small group..

I wanted to add, they also charge a small fee for this (like $10 for the year), and they charge the families like $2.50 per child and provide dinner for them each Sunday night..


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## Montanablue (Jun 3, 2009)

> Thanks Kathleen, that's good to keep in mind. In our group we started out rotating childcare by couple - each mom and dad took a turn to be on kid duty, kind of like Jacob's group, but much smaller. Our problem was when our numbers shrank (once couple moved, another went on deployment) we had so few people coming that with one couple doing kids there may only be 2 people left in the study. I was okay with that, since I like small gatherings, but we often canceled because of it. Then we had a couple of the 12-13 year old girls say that they would like the babysitting experience of having responsibility over the kids. So we've done that for about 9 months now. But now some of the girls would rather have their own group or be in the ladies group. The groups are small, maybe 5 men or ladies. The focus is supposed to be discipleship, thus the accountability thing. I know the men are way more raw and honest - I guess us ladies tend to not go into detail as much - but even so some of the ladies with 12-13 year olds don't want their girls participating in that, maybe because they share struggles with sin regarding their families (like say a critical spirit towards a spouse, not deep dark details). My husband and I are staunchly against mixed sex confession/accountability, and I believe our pastor is too.



I can absolutely see why you want to have the children separated from the group. Although I think its great to have families stay together, "adult time" can also be beneficial - or even necessary. I didn't mean to make it sounds like I was always opposed to young people or girls watching the kids - just that its a good idea to make sure that they're not routinely excluded from church functions so that they can provide childcare. It doesn't sound like you're doing that at all.


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