# WCF chapter VI, paragraph I



## cih1355 (Jul 13, 2005)

The WCF chapter VI, paragraph I says," I. Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory."

How did God permit the Fall without being passive?


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 13, 2005)

How would he not be passive? Or perhaps, what do you mean by passive?


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## cih1355 (Jul 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> How would he not be passive? Or perhaps, what do you mean by passive?



I meant bare permission. What would be the difference between permission and bare permission?


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## Arch2k (Jul 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by cih1355_
> The WCF chapter VI, paragraph I says," I. Our first parents, begin seduced by the subtilty and temptations of Satan, sinned in eating the forbidden fruit. This their sin God was pleased, according to his wise and holy counsel, to permit, having purposed to order it to his own glory."
> 
> How did God permit the Fall without being passive?



In a sense God was passive, and in a sense not. 

God decreed (outside of time) that man should fall, hence activity on God's part. 

His decree (in time) coming to pass did not require any positive activity on His part, but simply his decree coming to pass by means of human activity.

God did not force anyone's hand, but predetermined that they should choose to do it themselves.

This is the difference between 1st and 2nd causes.


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## Arch2k (Jul 13, 2005)

Here is what Calvin has to say:



> Calvin's Calvinism
> The Secret Providence of God, p 244.
> 
> From all that has been said, we can at once gather how vain and fluctuating is that flimsy defence of the Divine justice which desires to make it appear that the evil things that are done, are so done, not by the will of God, but by His permission only. As far, indeed, as those evil things which men perpetrate with an evil mind are, in themselves, evil, I willingly confess (as I will immediately more fully explain) that they by no means please God. But for men to represent God as sitting unconcerned, and merely permitting those things to be done which the Scripture plainly declares to be done, not only by His will, but by His authority, is a mere way of escape from the truth, utterly frivolous and vain.


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## biblelighthouse (Jul 13, 2005)

I do not believe God was passive in the fall. I recommend R.C. Sproul Jr.'s book, "Almighty Over All". He goes into some detail explaining his theory of the fall.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 13, 2005)

The problem is not whether God permitted or ordained or whatever. It's how He was involved. Clearly Adam freely chose to sin. The devil freely chose to deceive. But God was not part of the dialog in the same sense as Adam, Eve, and the devil were. Providentially, He was sustaining the very lives of those rebelling against Him, but not in such a way that Adam's decision was forced by God. I think we just need to be careful about how discuss God's involvement in this, and maintain the Creator/creature distinction.


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## Scott (Jul 13, 2005)

I am not sure that I understand the question. Elsewhere the WCF denies that it is by bare permission. WCF 5.4 reads:



> The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God so far manifest themselves in his providence, that it extendeth itself even to the first fall, and all other sins of angels and men; and that *not by a bare permission*, but such as hath joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding, and otherwise ordering, and governing of them, in a manifold dispensation, to his own holy ends; yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth only from the creature, and not from God, who, being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin.



The bare permission language is I think what you are referring to. God was not passive - the WCF expressly says that it was not by his bare permission. So, I am not sure I understand the question.


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## JKLeoPCA (Jul 13, 2005)

> How did God permit the Fall without being passive?



In view of WCF 5.4 we see that the permission God grants for the free acts of His creatures, is not a "bare" overarching freedom to do whatever, but that within that freedom other boundaries, and orderings are also going on as to govern the direction of actions to His own holy ends. He gives bare permission to the creature alone, but in action is taking steps to insure that the given freedom is used in only one way. 


A father builds a fence around the backyard. A child asks if he may go outside. The father says yes. Yet he has already taken proactive measures to see to it that "going outside" does not mean going out into any part of the world the child so chooses. He has given the child both freedom, and limitation. The father gave permission, but with the assurance that the freedom given would result in only one area to play in.

does that help any??????


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jul 13, 2005)

I would say that God so actively and specifically manipulated the situation to the infinite degree that Adam's only choice was to freely choose to fall. Adam believed he was choosing between to fall or not to fall (to obey or not to obey) but God saw to it that the specific circumstances would be so ordered, right down to the weather on that day and the bugs crawling around including the serpent, that Adam could only choose to fall. It was 1) active on God's part to ordain it and providentially see to it that it happened, and 2) that the Holy Spirit withdrew any help of rescue to Adam and 3) that Adam chose exactly what God wanted Him to choose. Adam thus fell. If you hold a staff in your hand and let it go (active movement), it falls (active choice).


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## Scott (Jul 14, 2005)

A couple of points. First, Every detail of everything that happens was ordained according to God's eternal decree. WCF 3.1 defines it like this:



> I. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.



In terms of God's role in activiely bringing this about, WCF 5.1 and 5.2 summarize:



> I. God the great Creator of all things doth uphold, direct, dispose, and govern all creatures, actions, and things, from the greatest even to the least, by his most wise and holy providence, according to his infallible foreknowledge, and the free and immutable counsel of his own will, to the praise of the glory of his wisdom, power, justice, goodness, and mercy.
> II. Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly; yet, by the same providence, he ordereth them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.



I would commend the entire chapters of 3 and 5 of the WCF for this issue. They have amazing precision and balance.


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