# Help me decide which set to get.



## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 15, 2018)

Good evening. My wife and mother go in together to get me a set of books each Christmas. I am stuck on which set to get. I am praying to start seminary in the fall next year with the end goal of ministry. Which of the sets in the poll above should I absorb myself in next year? I will also be going through Richard Sibbes' works next year, that is why he isn't listed.
I added Bullinger and Thornwell because they are harder to find and happened to come across them.

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 15, 2018)

I haven't read much of Bavinck, but in my church circle he seems to be the most highly esteemed and talked about.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 15, 2018)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> I haven't read much of Bavinck, but in my church circle he seems to be the most highly esteemed and talked about.


I have enjoyed what I have read, "Saved by Grace" and "Doctrine of God." His Reformed Dogmatics has been high on my list. The only reason he isn't the first pick at the moment is that Thornwell's works and Bullinger's "Decades" are hard to find, especially new.


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## Taylor (Dec 15, 2018)

I am almost positive @greenbaggins would advise against Vos, as he doesn't really care for Vos that much. 

Seriously, though, all of these are good. If I were choosing one, it would probably be Bavinck simply because it contains a lot of historical information, although Vos is _much_ easier to use as a reference and is highly valuable in terms of demonstrating precision in theology and exegesis, all while being very concise. I have both Bullinger's_ Decades_ and the works of Thornwell; Bullinger is wonderful to read devotionally, as the_ Decades_ are sermons on a host of topics, while Thornwell is a really good writer and gives the reader a good peek into Southern Presbyterian theology. However, he did not write a full systematic theology as did Dabney. Unfortunately, I am not familiar with Charnock.

You know what? Now that I have thought about it while writings this post, I think I would actually go with Vos. I'll vote for him.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 15, 2018)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I am almost positive @greenbaggins would advise against Vos, as he doesn't really care for Vos that much.


I was waiting for him to chime in with a vote for Vos. 
Thanks for the above insights. Do you find Dacades to be as devotional as other sermons considering his targeted audience?


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## JTB.SDG (Dec 15, 2018)

I echo what Taylor said. Vos isn't necessarily easy to read, though it's not as though any Systematics are. Full disclosure, though I've looked up particular topics in his other volumes, the only volume I've fully read (and thoroughly studied) is Volume 2 on Anthropology. But that single volume is absolutely worth its weight in gold. Vos is an expert at unpacking the tough questions in the Mosaic Covenant. He does it better than I've read from any other Systematics writer I've come across. This is true, even though as Taylor mentioned, his volumes are quite concise compared to others. I think he tends to be helpfully concise on issues that should be left concise, but unpacks issues with more depth and clarity of thought that need unpacking. He also does an outstanding job unpacking the specifics in dealing with the question of infants in the covenant.

So I would definitely go with Vos. But having said that, it might not be helpful to try to get through him in a year. Some of his thoughts are absolutely brilliant but it takes time to get what he's saying. Sometimes you have to read through a paragraph or section two or three times to make sure you're tracking with him. So my recommendation would be to go with Vos, but to make it your goal to maybe just get through the first 2 volumes next year. The final three will be waiting for you on your bookcase later when you're ready!!

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## Taylor (Dec 15, 2018)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Do you find Dacades to be as devotional as other sermons considering his targeted audience?



I mean, it's not like reading a sermon by Jerry Bridges or anything, but I found that they were easy to read. For example, I was reading his exposition of the civil law (which in my research is a rare thing for a theologian to address at all, much less at the length Bullinger does in his_ Decades_), and I was engaged the whole time. In other words, I wasn't bored, and there were some gems in there, as well. Bullinger was no slouch as a theologian.

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## Romans922 (Dec 16, 2018)

Muller Post Reformation Reformed Dogmatics

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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 16, 2018)

In this instance, I am going to go for Herman Bavinck's _Reformed Dogmatics_. The primary reason is that they are not available online either for nothing or at a reduced price, whereas the rest of the works on your list are online. I would strongly advise you to start to learn how to read books online, especially via archive.org and the Google Play facility via Google Books. While there is no substitute for hard-copies, you cannot buy everything as you have limited finances and space (especially if you are going to seminary).

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 16, 2018)

Romans922 said:


> Muller Post Reformation Reformed Dogmatics


I was really tempted to add this.


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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 16, 2018)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> In this instance, I am going to go for Herman Bavinck's _Reformed Dogmatics_. The primary reason is that they are not available online either for nothing or at a reduced price, whereas the rest of the works on your list are online. I would strongly advise you to start to learn how to read books online, especially via archive.org and the Google Play facility via Google Books. While there is no substitute for hard-copies, you cannot buy everything as you have limited finances and space (especially if you are going to seminary).


You are absolutely correct. I need to get over my stubbornness with ebooks. I am going to have to break down and get Logos. I have been dabbling more with online books. My pastor gave me Still Water's Puritan and Reformation Bookshelves on cd before he took his new call in CA.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 16, 2018)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I mean, it's not like reading a sermon by Jerry Bridges or anything, but I found that they were easy to read. For example, I was reading his exposition of the civil law (which in my research is a rare thing for a theologian to address at all, much less at the length Bullinger does in his_ Decades_), and I was engaged the whole time. In other words, I wasn't bored, and there were some gems in there, as well. Bullinger was no slouch as a theologian.


If it is still available, do you think Dr. Morton Smith's Systematic Theology should be a contender on my list? Simply for the fact that it is going to be close to impossible to acquire once it sells out.


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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 16, 2018)

Taylor Sexton said:


> If I were choosing one, it would probably be Bavinck simply because it contains a lot of historical information





Taylor Sexton said:


> You know what? Now that I have thought about it while writings this post, I think I would actually go with Vos. I'll vote for him.


I'll attempt to resolve the Taylor Paradox  I voted for Bavinck. I agree with Taylor that it contains a lot of important historical information. Bavinck also has an excellent Prolegomena - one of the very best I have read. So I would suggest Bavincks Reformed Dogmatics *then* Vos Reformed Dogmatics.


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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 16, 2018)

JTB.SDG said:


> Vos is an expert at unpacking the tough questions in the Mosaic Covenant. He does it better than I've read from any other Systematics writer I've come across.


I wonder if some of the modern Reformed Baptist discussions of the Mosaic Covenant have taken Vos seriously?


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## Tom Hart (Dec 16, 2018)

I've asked Santa Claus for John Flavel's _Works_. But I'm not sure he'll deliver - I have a suspicion that Old Saint Nick is a snivelling Pelagian.


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## bookslover (Dec 16, 2018)

I would start with Vos. As others have said, he's concise and is comparatively easy reading compared with some of the others. Plus, his catechetical structure makes him easy to follow. Once you've done Vos, you're probably ready for Bavinck.

Morton Smith is out of print and probably won't be back in print for some time, I'm guessing.

I'd stay away, for now, from Owen on Hebrews unless you're ready to get really, really, really, _really_ deep in the weeds on Hebrews (it's quite technical).


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## Taylor (Dec 16, 2018)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> If it is still available, do you think Dr. Morton Smith's Systematic Theology should be a contender on my list? Simply for the fact that it is going to be close to impossible to acquire once it sells out.



Oh, yes! I would highly recommend his ST. Green 
Presbyterian Theological Seminary still has maybe 5-10 sets available. You should get it regardless of whatever this poll decides.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 16, 2018)

I went with Bavinck. I have thoroughly enjoyed what I have read by him thus far, BoT's "Doctrine of God" and "Saved by Grace." His RD has been really high on my list for some time. I'll probably use my end of year book fund to supplement it with a collected works or commentaries. Thanks for the input, everyone.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 16, 2018)

Taylor Sexton said:


> Oh, yes! I would highly recommend his ST. Green
> Presbyterian Theological Seminary still has maybe 5-10 sets available. You should get it regardless of whatever this poll decides.


Can you message me who you contacted to line up a set?


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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 16, 2018)

bookslover said:


> I would start with Vos. As others have said, he's concise and is comparatively easy reading compared with some of the others. Plus, his catechetical structure makes him easy to follow. Once you've done Vos, you're probably ready for Bavinck.
> 
> Morton Smith is out of print and probably won't be back in print for some time, I'm guessing.
> 
> I'd stay away, for now, from Owen on Hebrews unless you're ready to get really, really, really, _really_ deep in the weeds on Hebrews (it's quite technical).


I agree it may be a bit much now with my current reading schedule. I have been on an Owen binge working through seven of his works. My main concern is the Hebrews set going out of print.


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## Taylor (Dec 16, 2018)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Can you message me who you contacted to line up a set?



I would contact Mr. Zachary Groff.

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## gjensen (Dec 19, 2018)

Thornwell is underappreciated. Had he lived longer then, we would speak more of him now.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 19, 2018)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> I went with Bavinck.



I win.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Dec 19, 2018)

If one has Berkhof, Bavinck can be postponed since Berkhof "channeled" Bavinck's Dutch work before it was made available in English. Berkhof gives you the terse basics found in their splendor in Bavinck's original—the full course meal. 

In the interim, Vos should be acquired to combine with Berkhof. Once both have been digested, then Bavinck is an appropriate acquisition.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 19, 2018)

Bavinck, but start with volume 2, 3, or 4. Read volume 1 last.

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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 19, 2018)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> If one has Berkhof, Bavinck can be postponed since Berkhof "channeled" Bavinck's Dutch work before it was made available in English.


But make sure you get the edition including Berkhof's "Introduction to Systematic Theology". Eg, Erdmans 1996 edition. If your edition excludes this, you may want to read Bavinck's Prolegomena alongside Berkhof.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 19, 2018)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> If one has Berkhof, Bavinck can be postponed since Berkhof "channeled" Bavinck's Dutch work before it was made available in English. Berkhof gives you the terse basics found in their splendor in Bavinck's original—the full course meal.
> 
> In the interim, Vos should be acquired to combine with Berkhof. Once both have been digested, then Bavinck is an appropriate acquisition.


I have Berkhof. I am ready for the main course. Thanks for your feedback.

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 19, 2018)

Stephen L Smith said:


> But make sure you get the edition including Berkhof's "Introduction to Systematic Theology". Eg, Erdmans 1996 edition. If your edition excludes this, you may want to read Bavinck's Prolegomena alongside Berkhof.


I have the edition with the introduction.


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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 19, 2018)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> I have been on an Owen binge


Given the Presbyterian discussions going on in the Theological forum at present, it may not be wise to read Owen. I have heard 'horror' stories of Presbyterians reading John Owen and becomming Reformed Baptists


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 19, 2018)

Stephen L Smith said:


> Given the Presbyterian discussions going on in the Theological forum at present, it may not be wise to read Owen. I have heard 'horror' stories of Presbyterians reading John Owen and becomming Reformed Baptists



I suspect that is probably because they have been erroneously taught that his covenant theology (indeed, even that officially set out in the Westminster Standards) is the "Reformed Baptist" view. It is decidedly odd to me that the notion that only the elect are, properly speaking, in the covenant of grace is such a misunderstood position among Presbyterians.


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## jw (Dec 19, 2018)

Yes. Get those.

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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 19, 2018)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I suspect that is probably because they have been erroneously taught that his covenant theology (indeed, even that officially set out in the Westminster Standards) is the "Reformed Baptist" view.


As you would have noted from my post, my comments were 'tongue in cheek'. Re John Owen, he subscribed to the Savoy Declaration.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 19, 2018)

Stephen L Smith said:


> As you would have noted from my post, my comments were 'tongue in cheek'. Re John Owen, he subscribed to the Savoy Declaration.



Yes, I know, but I recall hearing Carl Trueman say that his Baptist students often said that he should become a Baptist since he like John Owen so much. Dr Trueman admitted in this lecture that he did not really see how Owen could fit the children of believers into his covenant theology. I suspect the problem emerged from not distinguishing between those who are properly in the covenant and those who merely belong to the external administration.

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## Ask Mr. Religion (Dec 20, 2018)

Stephen L Smith said:


> But make sure you get the edition including Berkhof's "Introduction to Systematic Theology". Eg, Erdmans 1996 edition. If your edition excludes this, you may want to read Bavinck's Prolegomena alongside Berkhof.


Indeed...

https://www.monergism.com/introductory-volume-systematic-theology-ebook

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## Dachaser (Dec 20, 2018)

Reformed Bookworm said:


> Good evening. My wife and mother go in together to get me a set of books each Christmas. I am stuck on which set to get. I am praying to start seminary in the fall next year with the end goal of ministry. Which of the sets in the poll above should I absorb myself in next year? I will also be going through Richard Sibbes' works next year, that is why he isn't listed.
> I added Bullinger and Thornwell because they are harder to find and happened to come across them.


I voted for the Vos Systematic theology, as many here have already posted in the past that he just might be the one go to Reformed theology book to have and to study.


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## Dachaser (Dec 20, 2018)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I suspect that is probably because they have been erroneously taught that his covenant theology (indeed, even that officially set out in the Westminster Standards) is the "Reformed Baptist" view. It is decidedly odd to me that the notion that only the elect are, properly speaking, in the covenant of grace is such a misunderstood position among Presbyterians.


When I was starting to research much more into Baptist reformed Theology, there were indeed some claiming that Owen spoke for that position in regards to certain areas of Baptist Covenant reformed theology.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 20, 2018)

You should get Owen's commentary on Hebrews because he doesn't have one on the entire Bible. And if he did, it would likely be 230 volumes and at least $5,000 (and worth every penny!).

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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 20, 2018)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Yes, I know, but I recall hearing Carl Trueman say that his Baptist students often said that he should become a Baptist since he like John Owen so much. Dr Trueman admitted in this lecture that he did not really see how Owen could fit the children of believers into his covenant theology. I suspect the problem emerged from not distinguishing between those who are properly in the covenant and those who merely belong to the external administration.


You may be interested in reading Samuel Renihan's "From Shadow to Substance: The Federal Theology of the English Particular Baptists" [based on his PhD thesis] and how he looks at this 'tension' of John Owen. He looks at it from a partiular Baptist standpoint.

Actually I would be interested to hear if a Paedobaptist has critiqued Renihan's book.

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## Ryan Kiser (Dec 20, 2018)

I recommend picking up a Brakel's _The Christian's Reasonable Service. 

https://www.heritagebooks.org/products/the-christians-reasonable-service-4-vols-brakel.html
_

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## Regi Addictissimus (Dec 20, 2018)

Ryan Kiser said:


> I recommend picking up a Brakel's _The Christian's Reasonable Service.
> 
> https://www.heritagebooks.org/products/the-christians-reasonable-service-4-vols-brakel.html_


I have Á Brakel. It was the main ST I used this last year. I recommend it every chance I get.

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## RobertPGH1981 (Dec 22, 2018)

I hear a lot of great things regarding "Herman Bavinck's Reformed Dogmatics". I am especially interested in his Revelationational Epistemology which most say Van Til borrowed to further Presuppositional Apologetics.

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