# Shopping mall churches - a defense against intimidation



## Pergamum (Apr 30, 2008)

Shopping Mall Churches - Indonesia Matters

“Indonesians seek salvation in shops”:

Shopping malls in West Java are home to a growing number of Christian congregations. There are 10 in this mall alone.

Few of them want to talk publicly about why they are here, but off the record they admit it comes down to intimidation by Muslim groups.

According to Church groups more than 100 churches have faced attack or intimidation in the past two years.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Apr 30, 2008)

In the US it is becoming the opposite. Not churches in the shopping malls but Shopping malls in the churches. 
Megachurches As Minitowns - New York Times


> Southeast Christian Church here, where pumping iron and praising the Lord go hand and hand. Amenities at the gym include 16 basketball courts and a Cybex health club, free to churchgoers, where the music is Christian...
> 
> It is possible to eat, shop, go to school, bank, work out, scale a rock-climbing wall and pray there, all without leaving the grounds.
> In Glendale, Ariz., the 12,000-member Community Church of Joy, which has a school, conference center, bookstore and mortuary on its 187-acre property, has embarked on a $100 million campaign to build a housing development, a hotel, convention center, skate park and water-slide park, transforming itself into what Dr. Walt Kallestad, the senior pastor, calls a ''destination center.'' ...
> ...



Sadly it seems that instead of bringing the Church to the world there is a treand in the US of bringing the world into the church.


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## Leslie (May 6, 2008)

Why are shopping malls a defense against intimidation? Is it a matter of taking advantage of the mall security services or is it a matter of m reluctance to do anything violent in such a setting? Might there also be the factor of allowing visitors to access the church without being observed as walking toward a separate building? Please explain the cultural factors a bit more.


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## Pergamum (May 6, 2008)

The Indo gov';t has a law that makes community approval a prerequisite before a house of worship can be built. 

I forget the details but something like 60 signatures of church members must be submitted to local govt' as well as signatures of 100 neighbors that say that they do not object to this house of worship. 

How many of the churches on the PB would be able to do this? 

In a Mslm majority country this is even harder, except in cities and more tolerant areas where large numbers congregate and some level of anonymity and tolerance is fostered. 

This law is applied unevenly and most mosques do not pass this law either but radical Islm groups make it a "ministry" to close churches and demand presentation of many churches "letter of permsision" and if one cannot be produced, demonstrations and threats result until the church closed. Over a 100 churches in West Java has been attacked or intimidated in some way just in the past two years.


See this link for more:

Bigotry in Bandung - Indonesia Matters

Batak Church Attack - Indonesia Matters


Ramadan Fasting - Indonesia Matters


Bethel Church, Bandung - Indonesia Matters


Bandung Church Attack - Indonesia Matters

West Java’s Tolerance Problem - Indonesia Matters


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## Quickened (May 6, 2008)

Ben, 

That really makes me wonder how many of those people actually go to church for God.


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## Pergamum (May 6, 2008)

?

What do you mean?


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## Quickened (May 6, 2008)

Well i guess if you were referencing my post then i will elaborate a bit more.

When i read



> where pumping iron and praising the Lord go hand and hand. Amenities at the gym include 16 basketball courts and a Cybex health club



I wonder to myself why those things are there. I think of people going to church specifically for those reasons. Because church was made "attractive" to them by including these things.

I guess it just triggers a domino effect in my mind where i see people that go to church for networking, or for one of these trendy little additions as opposed to learning about God, or hearing his word, or singing songs to the Lord. Its all too often that things like this are the highlight of the church instead of the preaching, teaching, etc.

I guess it just saddens me a bit.

We are so fortunate in our country to be able to pick from a mulitude of churches where God's word is preached. Yet we think we need to entice people with an olympic size water center.

Its amazing how we soil worship services by trying to cater to the ungodly. 

I guess i didnt elaborate because i didnt want to derail the thread. Apologies brother


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 6, 2008)

Not to mention how little I bet those churches spend on missions (not just worldwide but locally).


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## JonathanHunt (May 7, 2008)

_Malls are the refuge of the saints
When storms of sharp distress invade_


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## Pergamum (May 7, 2008)

Quickened said:


> Well i guess if you were referencing my post then i will elaborate a bit more.
> 
> When i read
> 
> ...



I can guarantee that these believers are not meeting in malls to pump iron or go swimming.


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