# Appropriate and Inappropriate



## Mathias321 (Oct 9, 2021)

I have a Reformed friend from church who travels to Chicago every Saturday to engage in evangelism. However, I was not particularly happy with what I saw when I went with him. As we were moving to a different destination inside a subway train, he used his megaphone and began to preach repentance and the Gospel. 

As much as I see the necessity to share the Gospel to others, I believe some may be tempted to take it way too far. I do not approve of those harassing methods.

Any thoughts?


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## retroGRAD3 (Oct 9, 2021)

Is he actually harassing or just sharing the gospel? Meaning is he picking on someone specifically? If not, then how it is harassing? The gospel is going to be offensive to people who love their sin no matter how the message is delivered.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 9, 2021)

Do you mean that he was in an enclosed subway car blaring his "gospel presentation" at people with a megaphone?


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## Mathias321 (Oct 9, 2021)

SolaScriptura said:


> Do you mean that he was in an enclosed subway car blaring his "gospel presentation" at people with a megaphone?


Yes, that is correct.


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## Mathias321 (Oct 9, 2021)

retroGRAD3 said:


> Is he actually harassing or just sharing the gospel? Meaning is he picking on someone specifically? If not, then how it is harassing? The gospel is going to be offensive to people who love their sin no matter how the message is delivered.


It was within an enclosed subway car, nobody had a choice to walk away.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 9, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> It was within an enclosed subway car, nobody had a choice to walk away.


That's horrible!

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## Jack K (Oct 9, 2021)

Sensitivity to the culture is a factor to consider when doing evangelism so that you don't end up being rude. Generally, I would think that in Chicago it's considered rude to get on the train and shout any message with a megaphone (unless, maybe, the train is on fire). So my first reaction is to question that method of preaching. It sounds pretty bad—lacking the respect that ought to adorn the gospel, and suggesting self-importance ("I have something I think is so important to say that I'm going to be rude about it").

That said, there is perhaps a greater danger in taking the "don't be rude" principle too far, to the point where a man who is called to preach seldom actually preaches or only says what itching ears want to hear. Gospel preaching does require some boldness, and sometimes the preacher needs to speak even when and where his message will not be welcomed. So I would like to see more of the big picture of this fellow's ministry before condemning him completely.

But supposing he was out of line by using a megaphone on the train, I would not call it a case of taking gospel preaching too far. I suspect, rather, that it was a case of not having faith enough. Yes, a preacher with strong faith in the Spirit's power to speak through the gospel will be bold and will sense the urgent importance of his message. But he also will have enough confidence in God's work and timing that he will be able, when the situation calls for it, to be gentle and patient.

As for the idea that rudeness is okay because, hey, it's the gospel, so it's going to offend people: This misses the fact that in this case it's the megaphone and the jerk behind it that are being offensive, not the message itself. The hope we have in Jesus allows us to be bold and humbly respectful at the same time. Our methods should fit that message.

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## B.L. (Oct 9, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> In private conversation, he suggested that the work of the evangelist is more important than “secular” work.



Can you expound on this some more? Specifically, how did this tie into your private conversation about his methods and what was he implying exactly?


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## Mathias321 (Oct 9, 2021)

B.L. said:


> Can you expound on this some more? Specifically, how did this tie into your private conversation about his methods and what was he implying exactly?


He has suggested that his specific form of open-air preaching evangelism is superior to other forms of witness, or that doing the work of the minister or the evangelist is holier or more sanctified than the work of the chemist or businessman. I find that a little troublesome.

But I should mention that he eventually admitted that such a way of thinking is incorrect. I will remove that part of my post.


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## Jack K (Oct 9, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> He has suggested that his specific form of open-air preaching evangelism is superior to other forms of witness


I wonder how he would answer the challenge to find examples in Acts of the apostles entering a city where they were not known and launching straight into open-air preaching without being invited or waiting for God to give an opening. I think Acts 8:5-8 is the only possibility; it certainly is not the norm or the favored evangelistic strategy. I still think it has its place, especially in some cultures, but it's completely out-of-place to be pretentious about it.


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## Jack K (Oct 9, 2021)

All that said, I've heard good reports about some of the efforts out of Wheaton to go into Chicago and share the gospel. I wouldn't think the train ride into the city is the place to start, using a megaphone, but I also wouldn't want you to become disillusioned and abandon the effort entirely over this.

And if you attend the OPC in Wheaton, that's a good church from what I can tell (I visited once). Discuss with the leadership. Share your concerns. Try to work it out with gentleness and understanding.

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## Mathias321 (Oct 9, 2021)

Jack K said:


> All that said, I've heard good reports about some of the efforts out of Wheaton to go into Chicago and share the gospel. I wouldn't think the train ride into the city is the place to start, using a megaphone, but I also wouldn't want you to become disillusioned and abandon the effort entirely over this.
> 
> And if you attend the OPC in Wheaton, that's a good church from what I can tell (I visited once). Discuss with the leadership. Share your concerns. Try to work it out with gentleness and understanding.


Thank you for the advice brother. You are correct, the OPC in Wheaton is wonderful!

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## Miss Marple (Oct 9, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> It was within an enclosed subway car, nobody had a choice to walk away.


I don't believe there is any precedent for preaching to people who are essentially physically trapped.

I love the gospel. But I don't believe that is how it is to be propogated. What do we see? In synagogues. In one to one conversation. In open places where one sits down to teach but people may come or go. In marketplaces. In homes where one is invited.

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## Mathias321 (Oct 9, 2021)

Miss Marple said:


> I don't believe there is any precedent for preaching to people who are essentially physically trapped.
> 
> I love the gospel. But I don't believe that is how it is to be propogated. What do we see? In synagogues. In one to one conversation. In open places where one sits down to teach but people may come or go. In marketplaces. In homes where one is invited.


I agree. Trapping people into hearing the Gospel (except for the case of Beamer on 9/11 when the plane was about to crash) is not acceptable.


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## Edward (Oct 9, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> he used his megaphone and began to preach repentance and the Gospel.


I saw a bozo do that (but without a megaphone - just shouting) on a train one morning when I was commuting to work. I was in the far end of the car, so I ignored him. I do have some slight regret for not engaging him, but I just wasn't in the mood for confrontation. In both your and my case, I thought it would have been justified if someone had ejected him at a station. But then, of course, he would have claimed extra credit for his "suffering for Christ". 

You can tell him that I said his misconduct is a terrible witness and taints all Christians. I call on him to repent his evil behaviour.

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## JTB.SDG (Oct 9, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> I have a Reformed friend from church who travels to Chicago every Saturday to engage in evangelism. However, I was not particularly happy with what I saw when I went with him. As we were moving to a different destination inside a subway train, he used his megaphone and began to preach repentance and the Gospel.
> 
> As much as I see the necessity to share the Gospel to others, I believe some may be tempted to take it way too far. I do not approve of those harassing methods.
> 
> Any thoughts?


I took my son to a baseball game a week or so ago and there was a preacher speaking over a megaphone. He was focused on speaking about wrath and hell, which is part of the message. But the heart of the message is Christ. I told him as I passed by to preach it with tears in his eyes.

Open air preaching is biblical and glorious. But special care needs to be heeded here in _how_ it is you do it. It needs to be done in humility and with love.

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## Charles Johnson (Oct 9, 2021)

Jack K said:


> All that said, I've heard good reports about some of the efforts out of Wheaton to go into Chicago and share the gospel. I wouldn't think the train ride into the city is the place to start, using a megaphone, but I also wouldn't want you to become disillusioned and abandon the effort entirely over this.


I heard they stopped evangelizing in Chicago. I can't remember from who but it was someone with close connections to Wheaton. Maybe my grandparents who go to Wheaton College Church? Whatever the case Wheaton has gotten more liberal than many would like to admit.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 9, 2021)

Jack K said:


> All that said, I've heard good reports about some of the efforts out of Wheaton to go into Chicago and share the gospel. I wouldn't think the train ride into the city is the place to start, using a megaphone, but I also wouldn't want you to become disillusioned and abandon the effort entirely over this.



This point is only tangentially related to your post, Jack, but I once heard D. A. Carson say that some of his students did Bible evangelistic studies on trains going into Chicago. The rationale for it was that banging on people's doors to tell them about Jesus after a long day's work was both rude and off-putting and that they would be more open to listening when they had little else to disturb them.


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## Faythe (Oct 9, 2021)

I cringed as I read that it was via megaphone inside a subway car. Loud noise of any kind triggers my PTSD hard. It does not matter what is being said. I cannot imagine feeling trapped by someone using a megaphone under those settings.

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## SolaScriptura (Oct 9, 2021)

Faythe said:


> I cringed as I read that it was via megaphone inside a subway car. Loud noise of any kind triggers my PTSD hard. It does not matter what is being said. I cannot imagine feeling trapped by someone using a megaphone under those settings.


Exactly. My first reaction would be to think that we’re about to be attacked. Once my initial reaction was past, I’d think “they’re crazed…. Don’t make eye contact or do/say anything to provoke the crazy people… they might get violent!” Then, as soon as I could understand that they were talking religion I’d think, “these crazy cultists”… and once I realized who they were, that they’re “one of us,” I’d want to melt into the floor with embarrassment that they think they’re bringing honor to Jesus knowing that in the eyes/ears of everyone… I’m lumped in with those people. Ugh.

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## Jack K (Oct 9, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> This point is only tangentially related to your post, Jack, but I once heard D. A. Carson say that some of his students did Bible evangelistic studies on trains going into Chicago. The rationale for it was that banging on people's doors to tell them about Jesus after a long day's work was both rude and off-putting and that they would be more open to listening when they had little else to disturb them.


The train is actually an excellent place to meet people and tell them about Jesus. The real problem is the megaphone.

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## Jack K (Oct 9, 2021)

Charles Johnson said:


> I heard they stopped evangelizing in Chicago. I can't remember from who but it was someone with close connections to Wheaton. Maybe my grandparents who go to Wheaton College Church? Whatever the case Wheaton has gotten more liberal than many would like to admit.


As recently as last year, one group from the college was still at it after facing down some opposition. But I doubt they're the only ones from that part of Chicagoland who go into the city to evangelize.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 9, 2021)

Jack K said:


> The train is actually an excellent place to meet people and tell them about Jesus. The real problem is the megaphone.



To paraphrase Gary North, the phenomenon of Lone Megaphoners for Jesus is likely to be counter-productive.

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## B.L. (Oct 10, 2021)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> I have a Reformed friend from church who travels to Chicago every Saturday to engage in evangelism. However, I was not particularly happy with what I saw when I went with him. As we were moving to a different destination inside a subway train, he used his megaphone and began to preach repentance and the Gospel.
> 
> As much as I see the necessity to share the Gospel to others, I believe some may be tempted to take it way too far. I do not approve of those harassing methods.
> 
> Any thoughts?



On a positive note, I commend your friend for his zeal and boldness in evangelism. The majority of Christians keep the good news to themselves while watching the world around them go up in flames. It takes a lot of courage to do what your friend does every Saturday, especially on a subway train. My hat goes off to him.

On the whole I agree that using a megaphone somewhere other than an open air setting is obnoxious. However, I'm not nearly as hard on him as others seem to be in this thread. If our sovereign God has determined to use your friend as the instrument to bring one of His elect to himself and the appointed time happens to be on a subway train on a Saturday then it doesn't matter whether your friend uses a megaphone or sits silently with a sign. Conversely, if some on that train God has sovereignly elected to pass over then those hearers are going to take offense regardless of the methods employed. 

I've met too many Christians over the years, to include leaders in the church, who so badly want the world around them to accept and affirm them that they have not only softened their methods, but also their message. In a desire to be liked and loved by all we have packaged our evangelistic efforts into something that is non-threatening and safe to the unbelieving world around us. Rather than evangelize the stranger on the street we want to first build a relationship with that person showing them that we Christians really are a good and respectable people and once we've gained their trust we muster up the courage to tell them about their sin and misery apart from Christ two years later.

I went about my first 26 years of life having no idea that in my sin I was terminally ill and on a path to hell separated from God for eternity. I rode on trains, planes, and automobiles and nobody ever told me about Jesus....I played in parks, studied at school, walked to work, and dined with friends and nobody ever told me about Jesus. As I careened down the road of life swerving towards a cliff there was no man with a megaphone trying to get my attention. There are multitudes going about their busy lives who need to be woken from their slumber...all of whom are separated from God by their sin and desperately in need of the gospel message. Give me more men like your friend I pray! In hindsight, as a Christian, I don't care if God's appointed instrument was a boy with a bull horn or a lady with a lasso...I'm forever grateful to have been saved. Give me more men like your friend I pray!

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## ZackF (Oct 10, 2021)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> To paraphrase Gary North, the phenomenon of Lone Megaphoners for Jesus is likely to be counter-productive.


Yes. It makes me think of BLMs behavior towards restaurant patrons eating at a sidewalk table.

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## Mathias321 (Oct 10, 2021)

B.L. said:


> On a positive note, I commend your friend for his zeal and boldness in evangelism. The majority of Christians keep the good news to themselves while watching the world around them go up in flames. It takes a lot of courage to do what your friend does every Saturday, especially on a subway train. My hat goes off to him.
> 
> On the whole I agree that using a megaphone somewhere other than an open air setting is obnoxious. However, I'm not nearly as hard on him as others seem to be in this thread. If our sovereign God has determined to use your friend as the instrument to bring one of His elect to himself and the appointed time happens to be on a subway train on a Saturday then it doesn't matter whether your friend uses a megaphone or sits silently with a sign. Conversely, if some on that train God has sovereignly elected to pass over then those hearers are going to take offense regardless of the methods employed.
> 
> ...


Thank you for your different perspective. I believe you may very well have a point, although I still say there is an appropriate and inappropriate way to do open air preaching.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 10, 2021)

I think that B.L. does have a point. We can all too easily fall into the Bourgeois Reformed trap of dismissing someone just because we find them embarrassing - and, in this case, we would have some cause to be embarrassed. We can commend this guy for his zeal in seeking to reach the lost, while also exhorting him to make sure that his zeal is neither rash nor indiscreet.

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## Ed Walsh (Oct 10, 2021)

retroGRAD3 said:


> Is he actually harassing or just sharing the gospel? Meaning is he picking on someone specifically? If not, then how it is harassing? The gospel is going to be offensive to people who love their sin no matter how the message is delivered.



As I always say, the phrase, "Jesus saves," is offensive. Think of its implications.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Oct 10, 2021)

I think the golden rule is important in preaching the Gospel. I've seen quite a few preachers who preach in a setting that is not affective, and those who are obnoxiously disturbing the peace in public. I'm all for sharing the Gospel, and I've done it for years, but we don't want to add reproach upon the Gospel if we can help it, as the message is already hard enough for someone to hear. If I'm out with my family just having a fun, happy, and peaceful time, I wouldn't appreciate someone yelling at me or someone soliciting me. I would recommend just politely handing someone a tract they can read on their own time, or if there is preaching, it can be done in a respectable way that's not disturbing people who have no interest.

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