# Sermon Content and Organization



## Covenant Joel (Sep 9, 2004)

I don't know if any others have had this same experience in many Presbyterian churches, but this has been mine:

The pastor begins preaching (normally at the next portion in a consecutive expository series, which I personally believe is the best way to go), and right off the bat, after maybe 2-5 minutes, I think this: Does he really mean what he is saying? Does he really care about it? Is it of absolute importance to him? 
There seems to be a lack of passionate delivery in many Presbyterian circles oftentimes. Now, don't get me wrong, I am not going for the yelling, screaming, just-tell-jokes-and-you'll-be-fine approach, but if a preacher is truly preaching the word of God, and he truly cares about what he is saying, and really wants to communicate important truths to his sheep, I just do not believe he should speak in a monotone! Maybe most of you in Presbyterian circles have not had this same experience, but I certainly have, way too many times, and it really bothers me. I am not saying every pastor has to be the most eloquent, gifted speaker there is, but shouldn't there be some passion. And if there isn't, whose fault is it? The seminaries? That person's personality (and if that is it, then I don't get it, because why should someone who is unable to be enthused and excited about what he is saying from the Bible think he is called to preach?)? 

And now to another problem (or at least what I believe to be a problem) that I have noticed numerous times.
Not only does there seem to be a lack of passion oftentimes, but there seems to be a lack of organization. For example, I cannot tell you how many sermons I have heard in which, after the preacher was finished, I sat there wondering, So the point is what? You just gave me a mountain-load of information, and what was the point you were really trying to get across to me? What were you really trying to tell me in that sermon?
I want to be able to leave a sermon, and be able to answer when someone asks me, "What was the sermon about today?" I want to be able to say more than, "Oh, it was on John 4:1-26, or Ephesians 2:8-10." But neither should I have to say the entire sermon back to the person asking, in order to say what it was about, since it was about so many different things. I want to be able to essentially give one sentence on what the pastor was trying to communicate to us today. 
I believe that God's Word is meant to impact us, and to change us, and truth therefore must be communicated to us in such a way that it is crystal clear what God wanted us to learn on that day. 
Along with that, is that there doesn't seem to be any sort of structure to the sermon, such as points or subpoints. I believe we need to see how the preacher develops that central theme of his Scripture text (from the text itself of course), and therefore have simple truths to back up the main truth he is trying to convey to us.

Doctrine is great; I love it, and without it, our faith has no foundation. But if we have all doctrine, and never get to the point of saying, "This is what this doctrine should change in your life", then I believe we miss the entire purpose of preaching and doctrine.

And please do not think I am totally negative about Presbyterian preaching. I have heard some very good preaching. I am Presbyterian. Primarily the preachers I have referred to have been from the OPC. I have heard a very small number of preachers in the OPC who I thought were "good" preachers. Of the PCA pastors whom I have heard preach, a much higher percentage were "good." But don't let this make you think that I am against presbyterianism. I am not. I will probably (if the Lord wills), be a presbyterian pastor. But these are some things that I have observed, which I do not want to emulate.

Comments? Disagreement? Thoughts?

Joel


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## JWJ (Sep 10, 2004)

Yes I would agree with you in general. I have been attending an OPC church now for about 9 months. As an ex Baptist teacher and pastor this is the first thing I took note of when attending many Presbyterian churches, especially the OPC. Providentially the pastor of the OPC church I currently attend is pretty sound in both his sermon structure and delivery (besides his godly character this was the main reason why I decided to stick with an OPC church. 

However, and I have mentioned it to my pastor, often times when the pulpit is filled by other OPC pastors and elders, they cannot speak. There is no organization, no passionate speaking, and worse"¦ they fill their sermons with countless of illustrations that are unnecessary. It has become so bad that there are times I refuse to attend services when the pastor is not in the pulpit. 

Jim


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Sep 10, 2004)

While I have never been in a Presbyterian service in my life I agree with you in general. I have never really had a problem with someone preaching something they do not care about but with your second point I understand.

Some preachers can preach pure doctrine and no application while others can preach pure application and little doctrine. The church I am at now during morning services has a bit more of a balance but the evening one teachigns almost only application. As you see I have almost an opposite problem.


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