# PCA Symposium/historicity of Adam



## lynnie (Oct 30, 2011)

I find this all to be very sad. This is my old Presbytery. (The conservative author is in this presbytery as well.) It does not look like a fifth speaker-one to defend the classical view that Adam was miraculously created as a mature adult, and Eve from his side- was considered for the conversation. Maybe we don't really believe in miracles anymore? 

Metro New York Presbytery (PCA) hosts symposium on

_On Friday, October 28 I attended the symposium which was hosted by the Metro New York Presbytery and called "Conversations Surrounding the Historicity of Adam." Following is info from the invitation, followed by a brief summary of the day's events:


Please Join Metro NY Presbytery for our annual fall symposium: "Conversations Surrounding the Historicity of Adam." 
- Did Adam really exist as a single historical human being? 
- Are there fresh and insightful new readings of the biblical data? 
- How do the sciences of Genetics and Paleontology contribute to our understanding of an historical Adam? _


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## Brother John (Oct 30, 2011)

Is this the presbytery that Tim Keller is in?


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## ChariotsofFire (Oct 31, 2011)

lynnie said:


> I find this all to be very sad. This is my old Presbytery. (The conservative author is in this presbytery as well.) It does not look like a fifth speaker-one to defend the classical view that Adam was miraculously created as a mature adult, and Eve from his side- was considered for the conversation. Maybe we don't really believe in miracles anymore?


Hmmmm, sounds like a conference on Genesis confusion....


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## jwright82 (Oct 31, 2011)

I think that this sort of thing is one of the most dangerous things facing our overly evangelical PCA.


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## Fly Caster (Oct 31, 2011)

Have we not learned from history of the erosion, and outright apostacy, of Reformed denominations that comes about from tolerating this sort of unbelief?


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## lynnie (Oct 31, 2011)

Blev3rd said:


> Is this the presbytery that Tim Keller is in?



Yes, which is why I think I feel so sad. I've been so blessed by so much TK materials over the years. It would be so different as a debate if there was a fifth point of view. Just one old fashioned intelligent respectable creationist theologian, to be fair to the scripture discussion.

I do know this about Keller though, he has said he believes in a historical Adam- at some point God took the first chosen primate and breathed in human soul. Not sure where Eve comes in. But at least some of these guys have a sinning Adam. 

I've read enough Enns to be horrified anybody would give him a platform. At least the scientists don't pretend to be orthodox Christians.

_What: "Conversations Surrounding the Historicity of Adam"
Where: *Redeemer Presbyterian Church Offices*, 1359 Broadway , 4th Floor, New York, NY 10018
When: October 28th, 2011, 9am - 4pm_


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## Peairtach (Oct 31, 2011)

When I saw this thread, I thought it might have been about a conference defending the historicity of the creation and fall of man. Maybe some folks can organise that, and compare heathen myths with the biblical truth of Genesis.

Only people who've already subscribed to human evolution would buy this stuff. Either humanistic myths must be accepted or biblical "myths".



> In the morning, Dr. Harry Ostrer, a Reform Jew, MD and Geneticist working at the Einstein and Montefiore Medical Center, gave a presentation on the advances that have been made in genomic mapping. His main points were that through mapping of DNA, they have determined that hominins differentiated from chimpanzees approximately 5 million years ago, and modern humans originated in Africa approximately 200k years ago. Also, through genetic studies, scientists have been able to trace human ancestry back to a molecular Adam (~125k years ago) and a mitochondrial Eve (~175k years ago).
> 
> Dr. Andrew Hill, an atheist, who is a Professor of Anthropology at Yale University, gave a presentation on the history of the study of the evolution of humans in the last 160 years of paleo-anthropology, with a particular emphasis on the fossils of bipedal ancestors of present day humans. According to Dr. Hill, these fossil remains that have been unearthed show evolutionary development ranging from 7-8 million years ago to the present. Also, according to his presentation, human evolution from other species all occurred in Africa until we find the first homo sapiens in Africa, 200-260k years ago



We've got Reform Jews and atheists, so clearly the organisers weren't willing to limit themselves to believing scholarship, in any sense of the word "believing".

Were any of the many possible problems with believing in human evolution discussed? Doesn't seem so, although even the unbelieving scientuists said this:


> these two men, who are leading lights in their fields, clearly admitted the great limitations and continual changes of their theories (Dr. Ostrer stating that evolutionary theory (from a genetic standpoint) changed dramatically when a tooth was recently discovered in a cave in Siberia, and Dr. Hill continually emphasized how few skeletal fossils have actually been discovered and its unfortunate that we don't have more).





> Finally, PCA Teaching Elder Dr. Peter Enns, former professor of Old Testament at Westminster Seminary, currently Senior Fellow of Biblical Studies for The BioLogos Foundation and an itinerant speaker, gave a presentation in which the main point was:
> 
> _Since we must presume an evolutionary paradigm (otherwise there is no problem with believing in the historicity of Adam), then we need to find a better way to synthesize evolutionary theory and evangelical Christianity. _



"We _must presume_ an evolutionary paradigm" ?!?!

Who says? Peter Enns?


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## SRoper (Oct 31, 2011)

A theological safe space. Any update on Rev. Choong? Anything happening in MNY concerning his views that the Westminster Standards will need to be changed to conform to an evolutionary paradigm?


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## caoclan (Oct 31, 2011)

Sad, sad, sad.


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