# The Struggle with the Super Bowl



## CalvinandHodges

Hi:

To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year. Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.

On Monday you can read about it in the newspaper or on the internet. You will find that you have not missed much, and, that your soul profited greatly by honoring Christ on His day.

Blessings,

Rob


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## Ivan

I might. I am growing weary of the NFL. The Super Bowl is NOT important.


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## fredtgreco

Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?


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## Andres

fredtgreco said:


> Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?



why wouldn't it be?
I am sure almost all of us eat at the same restaurants during the week that we refrain from on the Lord's Day. I see this as the same thing. I've never watched a videoed game, but I usually watch Monday Night Football.


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## Tripel

CalvinandHodges said:


> Hi:
> 
> To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year.



I'm a little confused by your phrasing. Are you just wanting to hear from people who are indifferent? I would very much like to watch the Super Bowl, so I'm not exactly indifferent. I DO think it is a matter of Christian Liberty.
Your challenge is noted, but I will not be taking you up on it. 



> Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.
> On Monday you can read about it in the newspaper or on the internet. You will find that you have not missed much, and, that your soul profited greatly by honoring Christ on His day.



I will be going to our evening service, but then watching the game when I get home while eating really unhealthy food.
How much my soul profits or how much I honor Christ on that day is not dependent on whether I watch the Super Bowl or not. I have every expectation that it will be a soul-profiting day.


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## he beholds

CalvinandHodges said:


> Hi:
> 
> To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year. Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.
> 
> On Monday you can read about it in the newspaper or on the internet. You will find that you have not missed much, and, that your soul profited greatly by honoring Christ on His day.
> 
> Blessings,
> 
> Rob


 
That is not what it means to have liberty. Liberty is not just "either way doesn't matter, so don't." That would actually be choosing law over liberty, if we indeed have that liberty. If I believe that I am at liberty to enjoy the Steelers crushing the Packers, and that is what I want to do, then listening to you instead would make YOU my god. 

I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.

---------- Post added at 11:13 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------




Andres said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> why wouldn't it be?
> I am sure almost all of us eat at the same restaurants during the week that we refrain from on the Lord's Day. I see this as the same thing. I've never watched a videoed game, but I usually watch Monday Night Football.
Click to expand...

 
Well, to make your scenario more apt, it'd be like eating a meal at a restaurant on Monday that you knew for certain it took the cook Sunday to prepare it. 
I think a video-taped watching of the game at least goes as far as allowing YOU to not use Sunday for entertainment and you didn't force anyone to do the entertaining on a Sunday. But I don't know, really, if the OT Jews would have gone for that.


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## au5t1n

I began trying to be more careful to observe the Lord's day (albeit poorly) many months before I became convinced it was necessary, and found it very profitable for my soul, so the challenge is not without merit, in my opinion. It is probably more suited for those who are on the fence about it, rather than those who are _firmly convinced_ that it is totally permissible. For fence-sitters, it sort of makes sense to "play it safe," and after all, doing the things Rob suggests is easily more profitable than watching a game on any day of the week, and especially the day set aside to focus on the worship of God.


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.
> 
> 
> 
> Respectfully, aren't you making assumptions about his intent and thoughts of the heart?
Click to expand...

 
I don't see how I can be, but sure, why not.


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## InSlaveryToChrist

“Don't ask, ‘Am I permitted to do this as a Christian?’ Instead ask, ‘Am I a slave to this act? Is this food or drink or sex or hobby or work becoming my master instead of my servant?’” - John Piper


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## he beholds

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> “Don't ask, ‘Am I permitted to do this as a Christian?’ Instead ask, ‘Am I a slave to this act? Is this food or drink or sex or hobby or work becoming my master instead of my servant?’” - John Piper


 
love the quote!


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## InSlaveryToChrist

he beholds said:


> InSlaveryToChrist said:
> 
> 
> 
> “Don't ask, ‘Am I permitted to do this as a Christian?’ Instead ask, ‘Am I a slave to this act? Is this food or drink or sex or hobby or work becoming my master instead of my servant?’” - John Piper
> 
> 
> 
> 
> love the quote!
Click to expand...

 
The quote is taken from the following article:

I Will Not Be Enslaved by Anything - Desiring God

Not to make this a tribute to Piper, but I must say that after reading this text by Piper I finally understood what "Christian freedom" truly meant. Really good stuff!


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## Marrow Man

A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.


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## KMK

Marrow Man said:


> A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.


 
Not on the West coast! The 'game' will be over by the time evening service ends.


I, for one, am going to take Rob up on his challenge. As a recovering idol worshipper of the NFL, I encourage Christians to consider whether or not they are causing young men to stumble by putting their stamp of approval on Sunday football in general, and the Super Bowl in particular. What kind of message are we sending when we have Super Bowl parties at churches? Why not have a party every NFL Sunday?


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## JML

Marrow Man said:


> A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.



I think it would be acceptable if such was the case. However, there are more reasons than the Sabbath issue that I don't watch NFL. If this was the case, then such a person could watch the Super Bowl without violating the Sabbath but would then be unable to watch Saturday night UGA games.


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## Marrow Man

KMK said:


> Not on the West coast! The 'game' will be over by the time evening service ends.



Good point! I obviously suffer from East Coast/Eastern Time Zone Bias.


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## earl40

If I don't my conscience would bear witness to me that I would not be not watching for a reason that forbids me to do so. Also I am looking forward to the fellowship of 2 of my sons while we watch the game we planed on watching.


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## TimV

I hate football, so I'll probably watch it, not being a slave and all.


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## kvanlaan

> If I believe that I am at liberty to enjoy the Steelers crushing the Packers, and that is what I want to do, then listening to you instead would make YOU my god.



But the question is, do you believe it is your liberty, or do you really want to watch it, and so you file it under 'Liberty, Christian'?


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## Edward

CalvinandHodges said:


> To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day



Just a warning - I've gotten flamed on here for just saying that I tried to refrain from watching football on the Lord's Day - and I wasn't even advocating that others follow my practice.

---------- Post added at 12:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:11 PM ----------




fredtgreco said:


> Here is a legitimate question: would it be permissible to watch a video taped version on Monday?



I think a fair reading of Questions 117 and 119 of the Larger Catechism, and Paragraph 8 of Chapter 21 of the Confession, would permit such activity. But then the question becomes whether it is better to skip the ads, so that the NFL does not profit from the profaning of the Lord's day, or whether skipping the ads would constitute a violation of the 8th commandment.


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## Skyler

CalvinandHodges said:


> To those who think that it is indifferent - or - a matter of Christian Liberty to watch the Super Bowl on the Lord's Day, then I issue a challenge to you. If it "does not matter if you watch or not watch," then I will ask you to exercise your liberty and not watch this year. Go to your evening service, pray, read a book, have fellowship with friends and family or go to bed early.



I will take you up on that challenge. I never liked football anyway. 

---------- Post added at 01:28 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:23 PM ----------




Edward said:


> or whether skipping the ads would constitute a violation of the 8th commandment.



How could it be a violation of the 8th commandment to ignore ads?


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.
> 
> 
> 
> Respectfully, aren't you making assumptions about his intent and thoughts of the heart?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I don't see how I can be, but sure, why not.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> By putting quotation marks around _challenge_ then charging him with facetiousness, which assumes that his challenge was not genuine and for your good, but rather to round-aboutly condemn or accuse you.
Click to expand...

 
OK, well, I think he isn't asserting that we have liberty, and he isn't saying that the convictions of those who believe they have liberty are correct, or even may be correct. That's why I called it facetious. I honestly did not get from his post that the possibility exists that we have liberty to watch it. If I am wrong, he'll have to show me where. I think his opinion is that we don't have liberty to watch the game. His opinion may, in fact, be right. But I don't think he was honest. I don't think he is saying, "You have the liberty, but I challenge you to not use it." Why would he challenge us that way? 
Instead, I think it would have been more honest and more beneficial to explain why we don't have liberty, and then commence with the list of what is allowable on The Lord's Day. 



kvanlaan said:


> If I believe that I am at liberty to enjoy the Steelers crushing the Packers, and that is what I want to do, then listening to you instead would make YOU my god.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But the question is, do you believe it is your liberty, or do you really want to watch it, and so you file it under 'Liberty, Christian'?
Click to expand...

 
I think it's possible that someone thinks it is a sin to watch TV on the Lord's Day and convinces himself that it is liberty to do so b/c he wants to, but I doubt he'd know that's what he's doing.
I'm going to say that I believe-that-I-believe it is OK to watch TV on the Lord's Day, and even on the Lord's Days when I don't just want to watch it.


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## ADKing

Marrow Man said:


> A side thought: if a person celebrated a sundown to sundown Sabbath, would it be permissible for him or her, having set aside 24 hours as the Lord's Day, to return from worship that evening (after dark) and then watch the Super Bowl w/o having violated the Sabbath? Just a thought.


 
This question seems to suppose that it is up to the individual to decide whether he will personally observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown or midnight to midnight. Instead, if the Bible teaches a sundown to sundown practice then, of course it would not be sin (assuming the sun actually was down in your time zone ). However, if the Bible teaches a mindnight to midnight Sabbath (as I believe it does cf. John 20.19) then it would be sin regardless of whether a person holds a wrong view of sundown to sundown.


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## Marrow Man

ADKing said:


> This question seems to suppose that it is up to the individual to decide whether he will personally observe the Sabbath from sundown to sundown or midnight to midnight. Instead, if the Bible teaches a sundown to sundown practice then, of course it would not be sin (assuming the sun actually was down in your time zone ). However, if the Bible teaches a mindnight to midnight Sabbath (as I believe it does cf. John 20.19) then it would be sin regardless of whether a person holds a wrong view of sundown to sundown.



I was merely posing the question and noting that good, godly individuals come to different positions on this. My personal conviction is the setting aside of an entire day is keeping the spirit of the law and allowing for others to view it different, but I am also perfectly willing to listen to views on the contrary (and so as not to hijack the thread, if you wish to PM me on this I would be very open to such a discussion  ).

Two things to keep in mind: 1) Merely altering the observation (i.e., switching to an evening-to-evening view) merely to accommodate oneself to watching the SB would be going too far and abusing the concept. 2) Waiting until the sun has actually gone down would be mandatory! You might actually have to miss part of the game (horrors!).


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## Edward

Skyler said:


> How could it be a violation of the 8th commandment to ignore ads?



Some media types have asserted that skipping the commercials is stealing content. They get compensated for the product not directly by you, but by your eyes on the ads. You don't watch the ads, you aren't paying for what you are taking. I am not advocating their position, just suggesting that there is room for debate on this issue. But on my web browser, I do use just a Flashblocker, not an adblocker, because the supplier of the content that I want is entitled to compensation for their labor. 

Q. 141. *What are the duties required in the eighth commandment?
*
A. The duties required in the eighth commandment are, truth, faithfulness, and justice in contracts and commerce between man and man;[801] *rendering to everyone his due*; restitution of goods unlawfully detained from the right owners thereof; giving and lending freely, according to our abilities, and the necessities of others; moderation of our judgments, wills, and affections concerning worldly goods; a provident care and study to get, keep, use, and dispose these things which are necessary and convenient for the sustentation of our nature, and suitable to our condition; a lawful calling, and diligence in it; frugality; avoiding unnecessary lawsuits, and suretiship, or other like engagements; *and an endeavor, by all just and lawful means, to procure, preserve, and further the wealth and outward estate of others*, as well as our own.


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## KMK

Edward said:


> Some media types have asserted that skipping the commercials is stealing content.



Wow. That would mean you would have to read every single ad in a magazine as well?


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## Marrow Man

KMK said:


> Wow. That would mean you would have to read every single ad in a magazine as well?



Ouch! Talk about binding the conscience! Would it also mean that you should not get up and leave the room during a commercial? Or that I shouldn't use Ad Block Plus with the Firefox Browser???

Sorry


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> 
> OK, well, I think he isn't asserting that we have liberty, and he isn't saying that the convictions of those who believe they have liberty are correct, or even may be correct. That's why I called it facetious.
> 
> 
> 
> *Nowhere did he assert you had the liberty*. Rather, he simply addressed the folks who *think* they have such liberty and, according to such a viewpoint, he challenged those to exercise that perceived liberty in not watching the game. That's not being facetious, that's simply asking them to do this from their viewpoint.
Click to expand...

 
I said, "I think he *isn't *asserting that we have liberty." Though he may be _facetiously_ granting that we MAY have the liberty, in order for him to make any point at all--like for the sake of argument. Otherwise, would he not, as I suggested, just say, "You DO NOT have liberty to watch it. So don't." 
Why would someone say, "Those of you who think we have the liberty to wear jeans, I challenge you to use that liberty to not wear jeans."? Why not say, wearing jeans is bad, so you should wear something else, if that's what you really think? And if you don't think that, why mention it at all? I just don't think the premise was totally honest. Sorry. Even the title sounded like there was a struggle involved, but it seems the OP does not struggle with the Superbowl. 

I mean, I hate to continue to pick apart the poor OP, but it just doesn't even capture liberty right. Liberty is more than indifference. It's freedom. It really doesn't make sense, at least in my small brain, to say, since you are free to do something, I challenge you not to do it! *Why?? * That's why I thought it'd be better to throw all the cards on the table and challenge *the idea* that you have the liberty at all. Not challenge your use of it.

Sure, sometimes it is good advice to say, though you may wear jeans, I challenge you to not wear them. But you'd have to give some kind of reason, like, so you can wash your favorite pair finally, or something. But to just say, "You may think it's OK, but I challenge you not to," is not the full picture. Sure, he gave us alternatives, and what we were allowed to do. And he said that it would profit our souls, but he didn't say why the other wouldn't profit our souls. 
I don't know, maybe I did read it wrong. But I definitely don't think I've made any assumptions of the heart of the OP. I guess saying it'd have been more honest to say it another way _could be _questioning his character. But I was really questioning his methodology, because I feel like I understand his intent. And if I'm wrong, I don't think I was assuming anything more than anyone else would have to do in order to have a discussion. I mean, I had to assume he meant something, right? 

This is definitely the weirdest Off Topicness I've been guilty of for a long time! Sorry, OP!


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## greenbaggins

I think a lot of the difficulty here is that Robert is saying that some people believe that they have the liberty to watch the SB, but he doesn't believe that. He is trying to enter the ground of the other position, and then make a suggestion on that basis. As I read him, what he is saying is that there are more profitable ways of spending one's time on the Sabbath, even if someone believes that the SB is not a violation of the 4th commandment. 

As a side note, I don't believe watching football on Sunday is a matter of liberty, even though I will certainly not "hereticize" anyone who does think it is a matter of liberty. And this is painful for me, since I really enjoy football. So I watch the highlights on Monday. That rests okay with my conscience.


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## jayce475

What do you guys think about having a page on my internet browser showing me the live score and checking on it once to a while to see how the Packers are doing?


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## greenbaggins

jayce475 said:


> What do you guys think about having a page on my internet browser showing me the live score and checking on it once to a while to see how the Packers are doing?


 
Jason, it is a matter for your conscience and your conscience alone. As for me, it wouldn't let me off the hook, since someone has to maintain that website on Sunday.


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## ServantsHeart

I played football all the way up to the 12th. grade,then enjoyed and still enjoy College Football from time to time. The Super Bowl so called to me is anything but super, so it is not a struggle for me to watch or not watch.It's just another game be it the last game of the season between two pro teams who may not even be the best teams in their divisions. Lords Day blessings trump it with no problem at this time in my life,but if my heart grows cold toward my Lord well just about anything can distract me in that state of soul.


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## awretchsavedbygrace

KMK said:


> What kind of message are we sending when we have Super Bowl parties at churches? Why not have a party every NFL Sunday?



Super Bowl parties at church? WHAT IN THE WORLD!


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## Andres

greenbaggins said:


> jayce475 said:
> 
> 
> 
> What do you guys think about having a page on my internet browser showing me the live score and checking on it once to a while to see how the Packers are doing?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason, it is a matter for your conscience and your conscience alone. As for me, it wouldn't let me off the hook, since someone has to maintain that website on Sunday.
Click to expand...

 
Interesting point here Pastor. I have always been under the impression that watching sports on the Lord's Day violated the 4th commandment because we are to rest from our own recreations and give the day wholly over for worship. Is the reason that sports violates the 4th commandment due to the players having to work? For example, lets say I videotaped a ball game from Saturday where no one was caused to work on the Lord's Day. Would it be permissible in your opinion (or others) to view this on the Lord's Day? I am thinking that it is both reasons (both the work and the refraining from recreation) that deem Sunday football to be a violation of the 4th commandment, but now this gives me new food for thought on Pastor Greco's earlier question about if it would be permissible to watch a taped version of the Super Bowl on Monday. I think I've confused myself...



> WCF 21.8
> This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations, but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.


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## greenbaggins

Andrew, for me it is both reasons, as you suggested. Not only is someone else working on the Sabbath for my amusement and entertainment, but also I am not resting from those recreations that I would normally do on other days of the week.


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## VictorBravo

TimV said:


> I hate football, so I'll probably watch it, not being a slave and all.


 
I'm sort of in the same boat--not that I hate football. It's more that I'm am indifferent to the extreme. I've never liked watching it, even though I was an avid player up to college. The only way I ever know when the Super Bowl is on is when these discussions come up on the PB. 

But, no, I'm not going to watch it, despite Tim's back-door challenge. 

I can't really take Rob up on his challenge, either, because it's not really a challenge for me. I haven't watched it in at least 25 years.


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## Edward

Marrow Man said:


> Would it also mean that you should not get up and leave the room during a commercial?



That was part of the discussion that I read. No bathroom breaks unless the game is underway. 

As I said, I'm not convinced, but it is an interesting intellectual exercise in light of the Standards.


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> 
> I said, "I think he isn't asserting that we have liberty."
> 
> 
> 
> And I'm saying that there was no false pretense in the way he worded, but you imputed that to him by calling his challenge facetious. I'm not trying to be a stickler here, really. I just think that he meant well, but you took it to be a veiled condemnation.
Click to expand...

 

I've TOTALLY explained myself to death, and I don't even know why. I feel like I imputed nothing. I said exactly what I felt he did. He granted that some of us may at least feel that we have the liberty. Instead of dealing with that, he asked us to ignore that liberty. That is a ridiculous request to make of someone, right? I think I gave him good advice:


he beholds said:


> I think this post would make more sense and be more honest if you tried to convince people that it is actually wrong, rather than tried to "challenge" us to ignore our liberty (since you are, albeit facetiously, granting that we may have it) and go to bed early.


I did not call his post, nor see it, as a veiled condemnation. I really thought it was wrong to approach something as if it were a matter of liberty and then ask people to forgo their liberty, even if he were only using the liberty thing for argument's sake.

Greenbaggins could see the confusion and explained it nicely. 



greenbaggins said:


> I think a lot of the difficulty here is that Robert is saying that some people believe that they have the liberty to watch the SB, but he doesn't believe that. He is trying to enter the ground of the other position, and then make a suggestion on that basis. As I read him, what he is saying is that there are more profitable ways of spending one's time on the Sabbath, even if someone believes that the SB is not a violation of the 4th commandment.




---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------




Edward said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would it also mean that you should not get up and leave the room during a commercial?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was part of the discussion that I read. No bathroom breaks unless the game is underway.
> 
> As I said, I'm not convinced, but it is an interesting intellectual exercise in light of the Standards.
Click to expand...

 
I'd think advertisers and the products they represent aren't aware of who watches or who reads what ad. They get paid just for making the commercial. The event or TV show gets paid just for airing it. They use ratings to show how many households have that program on, but if they are guaranteeing that someone is watching it, they are lying. I think all companies know that people aren't compelled, morally or otherwise, to watch their ads, or else they wouldn't work so hard to make the ads entertaining. 
I don't think that me skipping an ad could at all be me stealing from the company producing the product in the ad, since what do I owe them? And the other categories, the ad company and the TV program, again, get paid regardless. I know you also aren't convinced that it is stealing, but I wonder what those that are would say of my analysis.


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## CalvinandHodges

Hi:

Just for the record. Both Joshua and Lane have rightly interpreted my motives.

Blessings all!

-Rob


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## KMK

awretchsavedbygrace said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> What kind of message are we sending when we have Super Bowl parties at churches? Why not have a party every NFL Sunday?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Super Bowl parties at church? WHAT IN THE WORLD!
Click to expand...

 
Anywhere except NJ, I guess.

------------------

What's interesting is the Lord may use the NFL to force churches to return to Sabbath observance.

From a Washington Post article: NFL Pulls Plug On Big-Screen Church Parties For Super Bowl - washingtonpost.com



> But this year, Immanuel's Super Bowl party is no more. *After a crackdown by the National Football League on big-screen Super Bowl gatherings by churches*, the Springfield church has sacked its event. Instead, church members will host parties in their homes.
> 
> The Super Bowl, the most secular of American holidays, has long been popular among churches. With parties, prayer and Christian DVDs replacing the occasionally racy halftime shows, churches use the event as a way to reach members, and potential new members, in a non-churchlike atmosphere.
> 
> "It takes people who are not coming frequently, or who have fallen away, and shows them that *the church can still have some fun,*" said the Rev. Thomas Omholt, senior pastor of St. Paul's Lutheran Church in the District. Omholt has hosted a Super Bowl party for young adults in his home for 20 years. "We can be a little less formal."
> 
> *Ministers are not happy.*


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## Wannabee

Hmm, seems we had a rather heated discussion about this before, with more than one stone cast. I really don't care much about the Super Bowl. But I do enjoy a good football game. And it is an opportunity for fellowship with other believers. So, I'll go watch the game and enjoy the fellowship.


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## proregno

BTW, that is a sissie sport, all that helmets and shoulder pads and make-up !

Watch some real sport: rugby with real tackles !


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## Whitefield

he beholds said:


> Well, to make your scenario more apt, it'd be like eating a meal at a restaurant on Monday that you knew for certain it took the cook Sunday to prepare it.



Or, reading a good Reformed book you ordered last week, and which was delivered on Monday - you know it was "in transit" on Sunday. Somebody had to work on Sunday (e.g., UPS pilot) to get that book to you.


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## Scott1

Let's all pray, that as earlier scheduling practices changed the date of games, e.g. "Monday night football" the Super Bowl becomes

a Saturday night event!


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## Notthemama1984

proregno said:


> BTW, that is a sissie sport, all that helmets and shoulder pads and make-up !
> 
> Watch some real sport: rugby with real tackles !



Tell that to this guy. YouTube - HARD football hit


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## KMK

I don't understand why people who don't like football are so anxious to watch the Super Bowl. It really is football at it's worst. (At least it was when I stopped watching.) The score is rarely close. The commercials interrupt the flow of the game. It's played in a dome or fair weather city. It is gambling, not football that makes the event what it is. If you don't like football already, you won't like the Super Bowl.


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## Joseph Scibbe

I am one of those who "think they have liberty" and am still going to watch the game. I am not going to be able be at my church on Sunday due to my work schedule but will still worship God on Sunday. Even still, I will be participating in a Super Bowl party after the end of the service. I have yet to be pointed to a passage that, conclusively, points that we must not do anything "recreational" on Sunday.


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## Edward

Isaiah 58:13. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words.


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## Grillsy

Isaiah 58:13. If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words.


Sorry Edward! Didn't see that you beat me to it.


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## Gesetveemet

.


Is not watching a football game a rather large amount of time to spend
on any day of the week on something of such little worth or importance
when we consider our never dying soul, on it's way to the great eternity.


Have a good Lord's day,


.


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## Wannabee

~sigh~

Rather than head back down this tired old road, how about just reading through how this has already gone down? It'll save a lot of fruitless grief. 
http://www.puritanboard.com/f54/national-super-sabbath-breaking-sunday-43175/

Have a blessed Lord's Day,


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## Grillsy

I fail to understand how a group of people watching a game on television together constitutes fellowship with one another. 

If fellowship is the goal, why not gather together for a meal and prayer or study of the Scriptures ? This seems a more appropriate SB Sunday alternative. 

Besides what is the Super Bowl compared to the worship and adoration of the Triune God? 
If the Lord's Day is about taking aside all worldly cares and recreations and turning from our own ways and desires how can we possibly fulfill the commandment by turning to a desire to see a certain team get a ball across a line?


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## KMK

Thread closed in honor of the Sabbath.


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## KMK

Reopened...


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## Tripel

KMK said:


> I don't understand why people who don't like football are so anxious to watch the Super Bowl.



Because it's more than just the football. It's the whole spectacle. If you were to poll a sampling of those who watched last night's game, I'm certain that the majority were watching for reasons other than an interest in the game itself. The festivities that surround the Super Bowl are what mostly attract people. The wings, beer, chips, dips, beer, pizza, sausages, BBQ, and beer are what people get excited about. That and the time spent with friends.
I watch the Super Bowl every year, but usually I have little to no interest in the outcome of the game. 



> It really is football at it's worst. (At least it was when I stopped watching.) The score is rarely close.



6 of the last 10 Super Bowls were decided by less than a touchdown.



> The commercials interrupt the flow of the game.



The Super Bowl is the one time in the year when people DON'T ignore the commercials. Frankly, I hear of lots of people who care more about the commercials than the game. Again, it's about the whole experience, not the 60 minutes that the game clock is running.


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## Glenn Ferrell

I like a party and a good reason to gather with friends for food and fellowship. So, always feel like a spoilsport telling people they should not watch the Super Bowl, or any other game on the Lord’s Day.

But, the moral law remains: 24 hours in seven days belong to the Lord; and he has given them to men for the care of our souls.

Whether one starts the Lord’s Day at midnight or sundown is of less importance, if one is consistent. In most places, evening services will come after sundown, at least part of the year. And, one will have other things they must sacrifice on Saturday evening. Adjusting the Lords Day for the sake of Super Bowl is less than genuine. Better stick with the common practice of the church, midnight to midnight. Everyone determining the beginning and ending of their Lord’s Day for themselves does not lend itself to public worship of Christian fellowship.

Had a wonderful Lord’s Day yesterday. As usual folk come for 10 AM Sunday school, followed by 11 AM worship, followed by a fellowship meal together (as half the congregation drives some distance to church), followed by a catechism class, with some time for fellowship and prayer afterwards, followed by evening service at 5 PM, followed by another fellowship meal for those who can stay, with the last people leaving between 9 and 10 PM. These saints love God and enjoy each other.

One new visitor (attending only a couple weeks, and learning about the reformed faith) declared after, “I’m so glad I came to evening worship rather than watching the Super Bowl.”

How can anyone maintain that highly paid professionals engaged in business on the Lord’s Day, for profit and the entertainment of millions, with all their logistical and media support (certainly not conducive to most of them worshipping) is God honoring or in conformity with his moral law found in the 4th commandment?

“The liberty which Christ hath purchased for believers under the gospel consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin, the condemning wrath of God, the curse of the moral law; and, in their being delivered from this present evil world, bondage to Satan, and dominion of sin; from the evil of afflictions, the sting of death, the victory of the grave, and everlasting damnation; as also, in their free access to God, and their yielding obedience unto him, not out of slavish fear, but a childlike love and willing mind” [WCF XX:1], and leaves the conscience “free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are, in anything, contrary to his Word; or beside it, if matters of faith, or worship.” [WCF XX:2] “They who, upon pretense of Christian liberty, do practice any sin, or cherish any lust, do thereby destroy the end of Christian liberty, which is, that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies, we might serve the Lord without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life. [WCF XX:3]


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## Marrow Man

I realized this morning that I have not turned on our TV set once in 2011 (since early December actually, If I recall correctly). Granted, I have watched college football games and some movies via laptop/internet, but I haven't exactly missed the TV set.


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## beej6

As one who could have previously been considered an omnivore when it comes to sports, yet whom by God's grace has been "always Reformed" (that is, Reformed since conversion 13+ years ago), allow this poor layman his two cents on these matters. Which can apply to sports of all kinds...

It is my practice to rarely, if ever, watch "live" television of any kind. Oh, yes, we have it on in the background sometimes, but 98% of the time we are watching a pre-recorded program. Which allows us to skip over the commercials. (I must say, the argument about not watching commercials being akin to theft was a new one on me. Needless to say, there is no obligation to watch these. Which makes the Super Bowl that unique 'event' where people are actually paying attention to the commercials! Something that would usually be considered "a necessary evil"!) If you wish to watch less sports (as I do), simply learn the outcome in advance. That is, after all, the lure of most sports, besides an appreciation of people's God-given skills - like a good story, not knowing the outcome (but thinking you can predict it!)

I daresay, with regards to professional football, that there is even less reason to watch it on Sundays with the advent of Monday night (and now the occasional Thursday night and Saturday evening) games. And you can even watch certain games in a condensed form during the week thanks to the NFL's own channel. Other than man-made tradition, there's no reason that games couldn't be played on Saturday nights instead of Sunday. Though does that make it really "better"?

The fourth commandment arguments are always the most heated because they force you to look at your own heart, and to exercise charity in looking at others'. Clearly watching Sunday football cannot fall into a work of mercy or necessity; and yet there are Christians who watch and/or participate in it. I will grant that some people may not be spiritually weakened by such practice though we as Reformed Christians have been warned against it; I prefer the positive argument which is, given a choice between hearing the Word of God (including preaching of course) and any other activity on the Lord's Day, why wouldn't you choose the Word?


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## kodos

I never watch the SuperBowl - but even before I was a Christian, I just never cared for sports. This Sunday we went over to watch the game for an hour with some friends from Church who had invited us. I dutifully sat down and observed the spectacle that unfolded. 

The game itself? It was boring - nothing much bothered me. But the commercials? Yikes. I had to look away at some of them. And the HalfTime show? (I left shortly after since we had to put the kids to bed). All I know is that I saw a female singer gyrating and that did it for me.

So besides the issues of the Sabbath (which I am constantly convicted of for my lack of foresight and dedication in planning for it) - I personally am too convicted in watching something like the SB. I know it's cool and hip these days to say that churches can have fun "just like the world", but I cannot conceive of some of that imagery being portrayed being shown in a Church for a SB party.

I think I just grieved myself even thinking about it.


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