# Romans 8:3-4



## arapahoepark (Aug 1, 2012)

I have heard that Romans 8:3-4 refers to imputation (Moo) yet, others say it doesn't, just to sanctification. The latter seems to make most sense in the context...but I have no idea.
What do you think?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 1, 2012)

It probably has more to do with Union with Christ as a whole. In other words it is both and even more.


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## NB3K (Aug 1, 2012)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> It probably has more to do with Union with Christ as a whole. In other words it is both and even more.





> Rom 8:3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,
> Rom 8:4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.



When Paul uses the expression, " who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit", could that be interpreted who walk not after works of the flesh, but after faith?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 1, 2012)

NB3K said:


> When Paul uses the expression, " who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit", could that be interpreted who walk not after works of the flesh, but after faith?



Yes I would say that is true but you have to understand that regeneration is a big part of this. Without regeneration faith is impossible. We have a living faith. We have been quickened (made alive or moved) by the Spirit.

We also might look at 1 Corinthians 2:12-16 to help us understand and the proceeding passages in Romans. 



> (1Co 2:9) But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
> 
> (1Co 2:10) But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
> 
> ...





> (Rom 8:5) For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.
> 
> (Rom 8:6) For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.


 

We definitely cannot take it away from the context of the first two passages either. It is foundational. 


> (Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
> 
> (Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.


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## NB3K (Aug 1, 2012)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> We definitely cannot take it away from the context of the first two passages either. It is foundational.
> 
> (Rom 8:1) There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.
> (Rom 8:2) For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.




True True, but isnt the end of chapter seven also in the context of the beginning of chapter eight



> So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin.
> (Romans 7:21-25 ESV)


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 1, 2012)

NB3K said:


> True True, but isnt the end of chapter seven also in the context of the beginning of chapter eight



And your point?


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## NB3K (Aug 1, 2012)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> And your point?



The point is that Paul is comparing and contrasting the works of the flesh and their result to the works of the Spirit and their end. The Law, by the revelation of the Spirit, reveals to us our depraved nature whereas the Spirit of God leads us to Christ and what he has done for us what we could not do for ourselves.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 1, 2012)

NB3K said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> > And your point?
> ...



That would be great total analysis of the passage if we didn't have the whole of Romans 8 and Chapter 6 to contend with also. We are also being conformed into the image of Christ.

(Rom 8:29) For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.


That is why I first mentioned Union with Christ as being a whole context to this.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 1, 2012)

Here is a sermon on that passage that I preached back in January.

What the Law Could Not Do, God Did


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## J. Dean (Aug 1, 2012)

It may have application for sanctification in some manner, but I see it far more as justification, because the law is never actually fulfilled in our lives (unless you want to go down the road of perfectionism).


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 1, 2012)

J. Dean said:


> It may have application for sanctification in some manner, but I see it far more as justification, because the law is never actually fulfilled in our lives (unless you want to go down the road of perfectionism).



I agree with you mostly J. but in context to which this passage leads it speaks of being subject to the Law. This is not an easy passage. 



> (Rom 8:4) That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.(Rom 8:5) *For they* that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; *but they* that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
> (Rom 8:6) For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
> (Rom 8:7) *Because the carnal mind is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be.*
> (Rom 8:8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.
> (Rom 8:9) But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


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## J. Dean (Aug 1, 2012)

Ah, I see what you mean there. Well said.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 1, 2012)

*
I appreciate the Calvin Commentary here. *Commentary on Romans - Christian Classics Ethereal Library


> *Romans 8:4*
> 
> 
> 4.That the justification of the law might be fulfilled, etc. They who understand that the renewed, by the Spirit of Christ, fulfil the law, introduce a gloss wholly alien to the meaning of Paul; for the faithful, while they sojourn in this world, never make such a proficiency, as that the justification of the law becomes in them full or complete. This then must be applied to forgiveness; for when the obedience of Christ is accepted for us, the law is satisfied, so that we are counted just. For the perfection which the law demands was exhibited in our flesh, and for this reason — that its rigor should no longer have the power to condemn us. *But as Christ communicates his righteousness to none but to those whom he joins to himself by the bond of his Spirit, the work of renewal is again mentioned, lest Christ should be thought to be the minister of sin: for it is the inclination of many so to apply whatever is taught respecting the paternal kindness of God, as to encourage the lasciviousness of the flesh; and some malignantly slander this doctrine, as though it extinquished the desire to live uprightly.* (243)





> (243) Commentators are divided as to the meaning of this verse. This and the second verse seem to bear a relation in sense to one another; so that if the second verse refers to justification, this also refers to it; but if freedom from the power of sin and death be what is taught in the former verse, the actual or personal fulfillment of the law must be what is intended here. Some, such as [Pareus ] and [Venema ], consider justification to be the subject of both verses; and others, such as [Scott ] and [Doddridge ], consider it to be sanctification. But [Beza ], [Chalmers ], as well as [Calvin ], somewhat inconsistently, regard the second verse as speaking of freedom from the power or dominion of sin, and not from its guilt or condemnation, and this verse as speaking of the imputed righteousness of Christ, and not of that righteousness which believers are enabled to perform by the Spirit’s aid and influence. The verses seem so connected in the argument, that one of these two ideas must be held throughout.
> 
> 
> There is nothing decisive in the wording of this verse, though the cast of the expressions seem more favorable to the idea entertained by [Doddridge ] and [Scott ], and especially what follows in the context, where the work of the Spirit is exclusively spoken of. *The word δικαιωμα, is better rendered “righteousness” than “justification;” for “the righteousness to the law” means the righteousness which the law requires; and the words “might be fulfilled in us,” may, with equal propriety as to the uses loquendi , be rendered, “might be performed by us.” The verb πληρόω has this meaning in Rom_13:8, and in other places. *
> ...


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