# The Nation of Israel was the Church



## biblelighthouse (Jul 13, 2005)

I want to share one of my favorite quotes with you:




> _. . . the Church has been and remains one: the nation of Israel was the Church; the Christian Church, since it also comes under the covenant of grace, is the same Church._
> 
> 
> *I. The Nation of Israel was the Church*
> ...



Source: Pierre Charles-Marcel´s phenomenal book, "œThe Biblical Doctrine of Infant Baptism" (page 95)



[Edited on 7-13-2005 by biblelighthouse]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 13, 2005)




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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 13, 2005)

(Rom 2:28,29) For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.


(Rom 9:6-8) But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but "Through Isaac shall your offspring be named." This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.


The Church is Spiritual Isreal. In both Testaments. Yes God did have a civil Theocracy and a separated people. But the State of Israel which had a covenant with God is not the same thing as the Covenant with Abraham that Galatians 3 is speaking about


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 13, 2005)

Right, and the children of the promise are believers and their offspring.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 13, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Right, and the children of the promise are believers and their offspring.



I love your avatar Gabe. It reminds me of your spirit.





*Believe It, Or ELSE!*

[Edited on 7-14-2005 by puritancovenanter]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 13, 2005)

I have the prophetic influence in me, I think. People either want to stone me or they love hearing God's Word through me.


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## VanVos (Jul 14, 2005)

I also believe Israel was the church under age , but I'm not a paedobaptist. Now the church has come to maturity I believe we have a co-equal number of elect and New Covenant members. Heb 8:7-13.

VanVos


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 14, 2005)

So you believe all of Jeremiah 31 (the restoration of Israel) has been fulfilled? Interesting. So no one preaches in your church?


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## wsw201 (Jul 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritancovenanter_
> (Rom 2:28,29) For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God.
> 
> 
> ...



The differences that you and Joesph are sighting are the differences between the _Invisible_ Church and the _Visible_ Church.


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## Augusta (Jul 14, 2005)

The wheat and the tares are to grow together. We are commanded NOT to separate them or sort them out lest we pull up the wheat also. No temperature taking, no fruit counting. Just wash them, give them food and drink, and teach and admonish them as little children for such is the Kingdom of God.


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## VanVos (Jul 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> So you believe all of Jeremiah 31 (the restoration of Israel) has been fulfilled? Interesting. So no one preaches in your church?



I'm asuming your refering to verse 11. This means that all in the covenant have everlasting life John 17:3.

VanVos


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Augusta_
> The wheat and the tares are to grow together. We are commanded NOT to separate them or sort them out lest we pull up the wheat also. No temperature taking, no fruit counting. Just wash them, give them food and drink, and teach and admonish them as little children for such is the Kingdom of God.



So you would allow someone teaching heresy to stay in your church. You wouldn't excommunicate anyone who desired to stay, even though the scriptures call for it. You wouldn't separate them because of this parable. I'm not so sure your interpretation of this parable is correct.

I'm not so sure the Kingdom of heaven means the church. Anywhere Christ is King his kingdom exists. His kingdom is not of this world but this world is in His Kingdom. I tend to see the world as a whole in this parable because of the general resurrection and judgment.

[Edited on 7-14-2005 by puritancovenanter]


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## tcalbrecht (Jul 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Augusta_
> The wheat and the tares are to grow together. We are commanded NOT to separate them or sort them out lest we pull up the wheat also. No temperature taking, no fruit counting. Just wash them, give them food and drink, and teach and admonish them as little children for such is the Kingdom of God.



This seems to be a bit out of context. In the parables of Matthew 13, the field is the world, not the church. (Matt. 13:38).

What you're suggesting would completely invalidate Matt. 18 and the keys of the kingdom. No one could ever examine anyone's fruit. We'd just all have to live and let live.


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## Augusta (Jul 14, 2005)

PC and TC, I mean in the visible/invisible church sense. I do see in the text that the field is the world. I have always understood this passage to mean the visible church. Maybe I am wrong on that. 

We know we have tares in all of our churches. When it said in the earlier part of the text that a man sows in HIS field I was thinking the church. This is obviously wrong when it does say later that it is the world. He also calls it the Kingdom of Heaven is like.... I am confused now.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 14, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Augusta_
> PC and TC, I mean in the visible/invisible church sense. I do see in the text that the field is the world. I have always understood this passage to mean the visible church. Maybe I am wrong on that.
> 
> We know we have tares in all of our churches. When it said in the earlier part of the text that a man sows in HIS field I was thinking the church. This is obviously wrong when it does say later that it is the world. He also calls it the Kingdom of Heaven is like.... I am confused now.



*His kingdom is not of this world but this world is in His Kingdom.*


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by tcalbrecht_
> This seems to be a bit out of context. In the parables of Matthew 13, the field is the world, not the church. (Matt. 13:38).




Bzzt! Wrong. 

*41 The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, 42 and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.*

The parable even begins with *"The kingdom of heaven may be compared to ..."* Seems to Scripture that you are taking it out of context, unless you hold that all of the people on earth hold membership in the visible Church (the kingdom of heaven). 

[Edited on 7-15-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 15, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritancovenanter_
> I'm not so sure the Kingdom of heaven means the church. Anywhere Christ is King his kingdom exists. His kingdom is not of this world but this world is in His Kingdom. I tend to see the world as a whole in this parable because of the general resurrection and judgment.



The parable is concerning *"The Kingdom of heaven ..."* and Christ will have the law-breakers removed from *the kingdom* at His parousia by the angels.

Who holds membership in the kingdom of heaven? Those in covenant with God or those not in covenant with God?

Scripture says:
*For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. (Matt 5:20)

"œNot everyone who says to me, "˜Lord, Lord,´ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. (Matt 7:21)

I tell you, many will come from east and west and recline at table with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob in the kingdom of heaven, (Matt 8:11)

And he answered them, "œTo you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. (Matt 13:11)

He put another parable before them, saying, "œThe kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field ... (Matt 13:31)

"œAgain, the kingdom of heaven is like a net that was thrown into the sea and gathered fish of every kind ... (Matt 13:47)*

The "Kingdom of heaven" is not the world with all of its people in it ... yet. It is here, but not complete. It is growing, but not grown. Those who profess faith are brought into the kingdom (by our estimation) in the here and now, but one day, Christ will have all of the false professors/apostates/covenant breakers removed from those who are truly "of faith" and truly "in Christ," abiding in Him as He abides in them. The fate of these will be worse than those who have never professed faith and did not believe (1 Cor 10; 2 Peter 2; Heb 6, 10, etc.).


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 15, 2005)

Where is your Dominion Theology Gabe?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 15, 2005)

> The "Kingdom of heaven" is not the world with all of its people in it ... *yet*.


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