# So I have decided to get a gun...



## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

I have decided to buy a pistol, I think something smaller (than a 45). Something used probably because I need to buy one cheap because I don't have much money. What do you recommend?


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## Davidius (May 25, 2007)

I asked this question a while back. See this thread.


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

um, yeah, that would be great, is it legal...lol. yeah im thinking something like 9mm.etc.


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## Puritan Sailor (May 25, 2007)

You can probably find something cheap at that pawn shop next to the seminary


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

Wanna come with me? I don't know anything about pistols. I only know shotguns and rifles (since I grew up on a farm). We don't need pistols out in the middle of nowhere.


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

I even bet that guy has tons of guns, mostly used.  BUT SERIOUSLY, I bet he does.


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## Devin (May 25, 2007)

Pawn shops are worth checking out, but you need to be discerning. A lot of Pawn shops buy loads of cheap pistols from low quality producers and they price them rather attractively. Just make sure you do some studying on the brand name if it's not one you're familiar with.


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## Puritan Sailor (May 25, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> Wanna come with me? I don't know anything about pistols. I only know shotguns and rifles (since I grew up on a farm). We don't need pistols out in the middle of nowhere.



Well, I don't know much either. I have a Sig which is a great gun, but it's expensive. Some more affordable models are Glocks and Smith and Wesson. I was just joking about the pawn shop though, especially that one. I'm sure many of those guns were used in crimes, and I'd hate for you to buy it then get busted with owning it because of its history. Plus you will probably have to have a background check before they let you take the gun home since you don't have a conceal carry permit. But we can go some time if you want.


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

Maybe you could show me how to work the gun before we go somewhere...hehe!


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## kvanlaan (May 25, 2007)

What's the purpose in buying it? Target practise or home defense?


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## brymaes (May 25, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> I have decided to buy a pistol, I think something smaller (than a 45). Something used probably because I need to buy one cheap because I don't have much money. What do you recommend?









Kel-Tec P-11


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

Home Defense, but I like guns so some fun at the range too sometimes. Small enough so I can teach my wife how to use it (and her not being scared or too overpowering for her).


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## Puritanhead (May 25, 2007)

Get a 12-gauge Mossberg Maverick Shotgun if you want something ideal for homedefense... They are inexpensive and a good value, and ideal for home protection.


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

I would love that, but I am looking for something I can just keep in or on my bedside table at night. I am in a small apartment so there isn't much time to reach under the bed and pull out the nice ole shotgun.

And if I needed a shotgun, I would just go get one from my dad...hehe. We have plenty at home in Illinois.


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## crhoades (May 25, 2007)

I'm in the market as well and am looking at the Springfield Armory's XD .40 in the sub-compact. Went to the gun range today and rented a .40 sub-compact in another manufacturer and enjoyed putting 50 rounds in a target. Working on the wife now...(talking her into buying it...not aiming at her...)


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## RamistThomist (May 25, 2007)

Puritan Sailor said:


> Well, I don't know much either. I have a Sig which is a great gun, but it's expensive. Some more affordable models are Glocks and Smith and Wesson. I was just joking about the pawn shop though, especially that one. I'm sure many of those guns were used in crimes, and I'd hate for you to buy it then get busted with owning it because of its history. Plus you will probably have to have a background check before they let you take the gun home since you don't have a conceal carry permit. But we can go some time if you want.





I know the pawn shop.


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## Romans922 (May 25, 2007)

You shouldn't try to get your wife into buying in on the FV heresy! Oh wait, wrong thread...hahaha....I'm lame.


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## crhoades (May 25, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> You shouldn't try to get your wife into buying in on the FV heresy! Oh wait, wrong thread...hahaha....I'm lame.


  Maybe this should be another thread. How to talk your wife into letting you spend $800 for handgun, ammo, CC Permit, and holster...

For what it's worth,

Found a good forum for handgun discussions: http://www.gunshowdirectory.com/forumThread.asp?threadID=20250&p=15 This is the XD section but they have sections for all kinds...

My current pick: http://www.springfield-armory.com/xd.php?version=63


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## larryjf (May 25, 2007)

9 mm is a good pick, but maybe a bit powerful for self-defense.
You may want to look into .380 or even 38 revolvers.

The nice thing about revolvers is you simply point and shoot, no need to load one into the chamber. When your adrenalin is pumping that makes a difference. Plus they are easy maintenance. 

They key is to stick with a good brand name. I would recommend the following...

sig sauer
barreta
heckler and koch
charter arms (this is generally cheaper than the others)

Also if you go with a 38 and you think you may have to carry it you may want to get a DAO hammer so that it doesn't snag...


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## VictorBravo (May 25, 2007)

theologae said:


> Kel-Tec P-11



I own one of those and carry it all the time. Lightweight, but it demands practice.

Really, if you are unfamiliar with firearms, I'd stick with a small 38 revolver, Smith and Wesson or Taurus. And get some lessons. As said above, hammerless is a good choice.

Semiautomatics are nice, but require a bit more experience to maintain and use. Stay simple. The nice thing about good revolvers is that they should last several lifetimes. Used ones are not too expensive.


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## RamistThomist (May 25, 2007)

What are the pros and cons of a revolver?


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## VictorBravo (May 26, 2007)

Draught Horse said:


> What are the pros and cons of a revolver?



Pros for a revolver:

Extreme simplicity.

Most find them very easy to aim and shoot. (My wife put 4 out of 5 into a small target at the range the first time she shot one.)

A good revolver has a firm but smooth trigger pull, there is virtually no chance of an accidental discharge because of a light trigger.

Easy to maintain, easy to clean. Very reliable.

Also, .357 Magnum revolvers have plenty of power but can also shoot 38 caliber (lower cost). Keep in mind that a small revolver shooting .357 magnum can be hard on the hand.

Cons:

Small revolvers for carry usually only hold five rounds (as opposed to my semiautomatic which holds 11).

Heavier for carry generally. Although there are some sweet lightweight revolvers made of aluminum or titanium. A bit bulkier than some small semi-autos.

The primary pro is simplicity and reliability. A semiautomatic is perhaps more versatile, but I think they require more practice and maintenance. I don't mind that because I'm a gun nut. But I like good revolvers too.

Of course, you can get into more details, such as the advantages of different kinds of ammunition.


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## VictorBravo (May 26, 2007)

I should add that most women take to revolvers much quicker than semiautomatics. Racking the slide often is difficult.


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## brymaes (May 26, 2007)

> I own one of those and carry it all the time. Lightweight, but it demands practice.



I know what you mean. I'm not really a fan of the DAO trigger. But the P-11 is good for backing up my Walther P99 .40 S&W. Inexpensive and reliable, too.


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## Theoretical (May 26, 2007)

A good gun fan site. There's a bunch of useful information there for prospective buyers.


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## tellville (May 26, 2007)

Americans and their guns. I'm in the military reserves yet I have zero desire to own a gun. I just really don't see the point. Maybe if I was a hunting man, but other then that, nada. 

Oh well


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## Romans922 (May 26, 2007)

tellville said:


> Americans and their guns. I'm in the military reserves yet I have zero desire to own a gun. I just really don't see the point. Maybe if I was a hunting man, but other then that, nada.
> 
> Oh well



If you lived where I lived, you'd desire one.


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## larryjf (May 26, 2007)

Good point about revolvers carrying less ammo (maybe 5 bullets).

But something else to consider is that if one really has to use a gun fear and adrenalin are peaked. That means that more than likely you will unload every bullet that you have, even if you don't need to. So if you hit somebody with the first two bullets, you will very likely still unload all 5 into him with a revolver and all 11 into him with a semi-automatic.

Also, you can get speed loaders for revolvers that work pretty nicely, but again may require some practice.

Something else to consider especially with revolvers is that the shorter the barrel the easier to carry, but the less accurate the aim.

I would also highly suggest getting a trigger lock for any gun that you purchase.


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## Chris (May 26, 2007)

My carry gun is a 1911, my bedside gun is a Browning hi-power.....

But to be honest, if you want something for home defense, there's really no substitute for a good AR15 carbine. 



As for buying on the cheap....how much is your life worth?


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## 3John2 (Jun 1, 2007)

I'm looking into getting a Glock 9mm.


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## jbergsing (Jun 1, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> I have decided to buy a pistol, I think something smaller (than a 45). Something used probably because I need to buy one cheap because I don't have much money. What do you recommend?


I assume the weapon would be used for personal protection? A 9mm would do you fine. Properly used, it will end any engagement you might find yourself in almost immediately. (A .45 is a show stopper, though.)


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## jbergsing (Jun 1, 2007)

tellville said:


> Americans and their guns.


Fortunately in America, we have the right to protect ourselves. It saddens me that people in other nations rely on their governments to protect them from criminals. Criminals almost always win when they know their victims won't be armed. As it is, the criminals are running the streets. And it is so here in most US cities, as well. 

Case in point: NYC has THE most strict gun control in the nation, yet suffers from the highest number of gun related crimes. Dallas, however, where carry permits are easier to obtain than a driver license, gun related crimes are virtually non-existant. Why? Because the bad guys don't know who's carrying and who isn't.

So I think I'll pick America!


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## RamistThomist (Jun 1, 2007)

jbergsing said:


> Fortunately in America, we have the right to protect ourselves. It saddens me that people in other nations rely on their governments to protect them from criminals. Criminals almost always win when they know their victims won't be armed. As it is, the criminals are running the streets. And it is so here in most US cities, as well.
> 
> Case in point: NYC has THE most strict gun control in the nation, yet suffers from the highest number of gun related crimes. Dallas, however, where carry permits are easier to obtain than a driver license, gun related crimes are virtually non-existant. Why? Because the bad guys don't know who's carrying and who isn't.
> 
> So I think I'll pick America!



We're from the government, and we're here to help.


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## Peter (Jun 1, 2007)

jbergsing said:


> Fortunately in America, we have the right to protect ourselves. It saddens me that people in other nations rely on their governments to protect them from criminals. Criminals almost always win when they know their victims won't be armed. As it is, the criminals are running the streets. And it is so here in most US cities, as well.
> 
> Case in point: *NYC has THE most strict gun control in the nation, yet suffers from the highest number of gun related crimes*. Dallas, however, where carry permits are easier to obtain than a driver license, gun related crimes are virtually non-existant. Why? Because the bad guys don't know who's carrying and who isn't.
> 
> So I think I'll pick America!



Are you sure about that? I don't think that's correct. I've heard NYC has a very modest crime rate for its size.

funny, this is from wikipedia


> Overall, New York City had a rate of 2,802 crimes per 100,000 people in 2004, compared with 8,960 in Dallas; 7,904 in Detroit; 7,402 in Phoenix; 7,347 in San Antonio; 7,195 in Houston; 5,471 in Philadelphia; 4,376 in Los Angeles; and 4,103 in San Diego


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## Kevin Lewis (Jun 1, 2007)

*Glock 27*






Good Day


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## tellville (Jun 1, 2007)

jbergsing said:


> Fortunately in America, we have the right to protect ourselves. It saddens me that people in other nations rely on their governments to protect them from criminals. Criminals almost always win when they know their victims won't be armed. As it is, the criminals are running the streets. And it is so here in most US cities, as well.
> 
> Case in point: NYC has THE most strict gun control in the nation, yet suffers from the highest number of gun related crimes. Dallas, however, where carry permits are easier to obtain than a driver license, gun related crimes are virtually non-existant. Why? Because the bad guys don't know who's carrying and who isn't.
> 
> So I think I'll pick America!



I live in a city/area that has over a million people. Yet in 2006 (which is a little bit of a anomaly because Edmonton made it to the Stanley Cup final and people went a little crazy!) There were only 41 homicides (which is 41 too many, but I am doing comparisons). But how many of these were caused by firearms? 16. In 2003, nine of the 23 homicides in Edmonton were firearm related, while in the same year there were 67 motor vehicle-related deaths, and 52 from _falling down_. 

I don't need to rely on my government to protect me, I just need to know how to walk properly!  

So, if I had to chose between a country where I could buy the gun I don't want so I could have the greater chance of being shot by a gun I don't think necessary, or the country where I can't buy a gun and odds are will never even see one, then I choose the latter. 

GO CANADA! 

P.S.
Actually, Canadians are allowed to buy guns and own them. We just put a couple of hurdles in the way so a 5 year old can't purchase one at the local convenience store  

BTW, I don't care if people own guns one way or another (I am in the military remember). I just think it is funny the obsession Americans have with guns. Probably the same way Americans find Canadians funny for there obsession with Hockey (by far the greatest game God ever created).


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## Romans922 (Jun 1, 2007)

I believe I've decided to get a Glock 17, something my wife and I can both use.


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## larryjf (Jun 1, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> I believe I've decided to get a Glock 17, something my wife and I can both use.



Just beware that they have no external safety.


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## Romans922 (Jun 1, 2007)

i know


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## jbergsing (Jun 2, 2007)

Peter said:


> Are you sure about that? I don't think that's correct. I've heard NYC has a very modest crime rate for its size.
> 
> funny, this is from wikipedia


The statistics say otherwise. *Violent* crime is a major problem in NYC, but your statistics doesn't break it down like that but lop all crime into one category. Definitely to the anti-gun crowd's pleasure. I'd like to see NYC enact a policy like Dallas and see what happens.


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## jbergsing (Jun 2, 2007)

tellville said:


> I live in a city/area that has over a million people. Yet in 2006 (which is a little bit of a anomaly because Edmonton made it to the Stanley Cup final and people went a little crazy!) There were only 41 homicides (which is 41 too many, but I am doing comparisons). But how many of these were caused by firearms? 16. In 2003, nine of the 23 homicides in Edmonton were firearm related, while in the same year there were 67 motor vehicle-related deaths, and 52 from _falling down_.
> 
> I don't need to rely on my government to protect me, I just need to know how to walk properly!


OK, now that is just funny! 



tellville said:


> So, if I had to chose between a country where I could buy the gun I don't want so I could have the greater chance of being shot by a gun I don't think necessary, or the country where I can't buy a gun and odds are will never even see one, then I choose the latter.
> 
> GO CANADA!


Why do you think the homocide rate is so low in your big town? I'm really curious about that, however, I won't write it off to gun control. Gun control only works on those who obey the laws of the land. Criminals will obtain the guns whether or not they are legal. So where does that leave the law abiding _*unarmed*_ citizen? Helpless! 



tellville said:


> P.S.
> Actually, Canadians are allowed to buy guns and own them. We just put a couple of hurdles in the way so a 5 year old can't purchase one at the local convenience store


Come on, we don't allow that either. Let's not imply something that outrageous. It only weakens your credibility.



tellville said:


> BTW, I don't care if people own guns one way or another (I am in the military remember). I just think it is funny the obsession Americans have with guns.


I think this 'obsession with firearms' you eluded to is mainly due to the threat of them being taken away from us. Our constitution provides us with protection of that very thing, yet some have decided they know better and are working to find ways around the Constitution of the US.


tellville said:


> Probably the same way Americans find Canadians funny for there obsession with Hockey (by far the greatest game God ever created).


Wrong again! American football, by far, is the greatest game ever created!


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## jbergsing (Jun 2, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> I believe I've decided to get a Glock 17, something my wife and I can both use.


Nice choice, however, it does not have an external safety. Personally, an external safety is one of the criteria I have when considering the purchase of a firearm, but others have no problem with it. Personal choice there.

EDIT: Sorry, I should read the entire thread before I repeat other's comments.


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## Reformed Baptist (Jun 5, 2007)

I have a Ruger P89 9mm. Very durable pistol. I prob shot 200 rounds through it, no jam, no prob. My wife doesn't like it because its loud and has a slight kick. I bought her a P22 pistol with a laser. Neat gun. 

I keep a .357 mag in my truck, revolver. Nice old school gun. Came in handy the other day too...had a guy stop me in the middle of the road with my daughter with me. He didn't get ignorant, but it was nice to have that handy just in case. He was drunk. 

You can't go wrong with a Ruger 9mm, but that Glock should treat you well too.


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## Reformed Baptist (Jun 5, 2007)

Also, I recommend the GunVault to store your pistol at home if you don't have one already or some sort of gun safe. I like the GunVault because its safe, and easy to access in a hurry. We have 4 children and one on the way. Safety is very important to us as well as accessability.


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