# Is singing "God Save The Queen" an element of worship?



## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

As a new question from the thread about singing the National anthem in (or before) worship.

Would You consider "God Save the Queen" in a diferent catagory?

Here are the words;

God save our gracious Queen
Long live our noble Queen,
God save the Queen:
Send her victorious,
Happy and glorious,
Long to reign over us:
God save the Queen. 

O Lord, our God, arise,
Scatter thine enemies,
And make them fall:
Confound their politics,
Frustrate their knavish tricks,
On thee our hopes we fix:
God save us all. 

Thy choicest gifts in store,
On her be pleased to pour;
Long may she reign:
May she defend our laws,
And ever give us cause
To sing with heart and voice
God save the Queen.

Since praying for kings is a commanded part of our worship doesn't this song meet that standard?


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## OPC'n (Nov 9, 2008)

This is a song, right? Then it isn't allowed into God's house of worship. There is nothing wrong with praying for our leaders when the Pastor is leading the general prayer for many different topics, but to sing this is a totally different thing!


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

sjonee said:


> This is a song, right? Then it isn't allowed into God's house of worship. There is nothing wrong with praying for our leaders when the Pastor is leading the general prayer for many different topics, but to sing this is a totally different thing!



Why?

We sing the creed, the Psalms, the Lords Prayer is your objection to the words/sentiment or to the singing?

BTW this is not an EP question, but all EP'ers may chime in with if this is a legit prayer, just ignore the singing.


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## OPC'n (Nov 9, 2008)

Kevin,
I believe this song to be focused on a human being not God. For that reason, it disqualifies it for worshipping God. Just because God's name (is taken in vain here when used in the worship service) is mentioned in this song doesn't give it godliness as the Psalms. To be honest, our church only recites the creeds and the Lord's prayer...we don't sing those. I'm not saying it is wrong to sing those...not at all...just saying our church only recites them. But these focus on God and not mankind.


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

Joshua said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > BTW this is not an EP question, but all EP'ers may chime in with if this is a legit prayer, just ignore the singing.
> ...



1. OK, that is a separate topic.

2. Are you refering to stanza 2? if so re-read it, it refers to God's enemies.

3. Good point! However, "our laws" are common law based so we could be (and BTW, I am) praying for a return to biblical law in that petition. All of the modern PC-laws are a violation of our historic (biblical) constitution (In my humble opinion).


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 9, 2008)

To be fair to the hymn if/when Prince William ascends to the throne we would then sing "God Save the King" and it would become masculine.


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

1. Pass

2. "O Lord our God, scatter THINE enemies..." QED

3. You...Puritan, you....


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

For everyones information; The Puritans were (almost to a man) monarchists. (gasp!)


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 9, 2008)

For Kevin:
[video=youtube;DnuoGOo3Bew]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnuoGOo3Bew[/video]


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

Now, don't try to pretend that, that didn't bring a tear to your eye.


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## toddpedlar (Nov 9, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Now, don't try to pretend that, that didn't bring a tear to your eye.



sure... as long as you don't try to pretend that the welling emotions within you are justification for singing such a song in a service of worship of the Lord God Almighty.


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## toddpedlar (Nov 9, 2008)

Kevin said:


> For everyones information; The Puritans were (almost to a man) monarchists. (gasp!)



and the Puritans would run a pastor out of his charge if he tried singing such a song in the gathered worship of God's people.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 9, 2008)

There are times when I think being in a Constitutional Republic is downright boring...


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > Now, don't try to pretend that, that didn't bring a tear to your eye.
> ...



No worries, brother. When I worship God, I pray for all those that he commands. And if the Lord God Almighty tell me to " Fear Him, AND honour the King", then I'll just do it!


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## toddpedlar (Nov 9, 2008)

Kevin said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin said:
> ...



Considering that in Sunday School today I taught on Ecclesiastes 8:2-7 and in worship our pastor preached on 1 Peter 2:17, this is interesting. How far down the road will you go to honor the king if it simultaneously dishonors God?


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## Kevin (Nov 9, 2008)

until they conflict.


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## Matthias (Nov 10, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> There are times when I think being in a Constitutional Republic is downright boring...



haha thats funny....


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## toddpedlar (Nov 10, 2008)

Kevin said:


> until they conflict.



I guess there's the rub, eh? Clearly you think God Save the Queen is appropriate for worship because you think it isn't dishonoring to the purpose for your gathering. It seems to me the question is in your mind already decided.

EP questions aside, universal questions aside concerning appropriateness of a human-centered worship song like this, you should look at the text and see if it truly represents the current state of affairs regarding the current queen (is she truly "gracious", i.e. does she bear the marks of a regenerate believer in Christ?) and the laws you are, through this song, praying that she defend (homosexual unions, hate-crimes for pastors speaking out against sin)? If you're happy praying that the queen defend such abhorrent laws, so be it. I think it's disgraceful.


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## Scott1 (Nov 10, 2008)

> 1 Timothy 2
> 
> 1I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
> 
> ...



Yes, we are commanded to pray for our leaders but that is not the same thing as making them a focus of personal, family or corporate worship.

I think the sense of this passage is to pray that God will grant leaders righteousness and that as a by-product of that, the citizens tend toward a more peaceable existence which allows the freedom for God's people to live out a biblical life.


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## Kevin (Nov 10, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > until they conflict.
> ...




1. Consider it a prayer, and not a worship song, does that change your point of view?

2. Do you not consider it the duty of all Americans to pray for the president, and that he uphold the constitution? No one would ever consider that an endorsement of every wacky "law" (falsely so-called) that he promotes. Or would they?


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 10, 2008)

I pray for the queen and govt in public worship each week. I would not use the national anthem as a hymn - it is not about God, as has been amply pointed out.

If we had some official ceremony in our church building that neccessitated the playing and singing of the national anthem then I would allow it, but outside of the public worship of God.


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## toddpedlar (Nov 10, 2008)

Kevin said:


> 1. Consider it a prayer, and not a worship song, does that change your point of view?



But it's not a prayer - it's something that the church is expected to sing together. As a prayer, it fails rather badly, as has already been pointed out. 

It is a song - like it or not, it is not the same thing as a prayer. "God Bless America" is also a song written in the guise of a prayer - and I find it equally disgraceful when IT is sung in public worship as I do the concept of "God Save the Queen" being sung.



> 2. Do you not consider it the duty of all Americans to pray for the president, and that he uphold the constitution? No one would ever consider that an endorsement of every wacky "law" (falsely so-called) that he promotes. Or would they?



Certainly it is the duty of all Americans to pray for the president - however, a written prayer such as "God Save the Queen" doesn't ask what you have suggested would be right to pray for. (and we do pray for the president to uphold the duties of his office and to do so in full reliance upon God his professed Father.... that, however, is not the same thing as saying "may she defend our laws". 

Finally, you seem rather unwilling to engage any of the discussion that has been put forward concerning the appropriateness of this in worship, so I'm not sure why this discussion is continuing. I'm done with it, at least.


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## Christusregnat (Nov 10, 2008)

Kevin said:


> As a new question from the thread about singing the National anthem in (or before) worship.
> 
> Would You consider "God Save the Queen" in a diferent catagory?



QE2 has done more for the downfall of godliness and the Protestant Reformed Religion that she swore to uphold than (perhaps) any of her predecessors. Rampant socialism, disarming of citizens, whacky draconian laws, abortion, and probably a whole lot more that I don't know about. I realize that she is somewhat of a figure-head, but would it not be more appropriate to call down God's curses on such an evil ruler? I'm thinking, in particular, of the imprecatory psalms?

Cheers,


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