# Master's Seminary, Southern Baptist Theological, or Trinity Evangelical Divinity?



## ArmyChaplain

I am currently an undergraduate student and plan to attend seminary in Spring 2013 to pursue a M.Div for ministry in Army Chaplaincy. I have applied to The Master's Seminary and Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. I have so far been accepted into TMS and am awaiting word from SBTS. I have seen mention of Trinity Evangelical Divinity School a few times and will look into them also. What are the pros and cons of each of these 3 seminaries AND their M.Div. programs? I am looking for sound doctrine, a well-rounded institution, top-notch education, and many opportunities/areas of ministry and social/recreational activities.


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## Pilgrim

Jaeden,

Welcome to the PuritanBoard!

One thing to keep in mind is that, fairly or not, people are going to tend to categorize you based on your degree, perhaps especially early in your "career." If you go to a dispensational school, it will be assumed if you are dispensational until proven otherwise. The same goes for having a degree from a Reformed/Presbyterian school, a Calvinistic Baptist school, a more Arminian Baptist school or whatever. 

If you intend to remain Southern Baptist, SBTS would be the clear choice. A lot of churches are going to prefer a prospective pastor have a degree from one of their schools. (And which one it is can make a difference too in some cases.) While it's not confessionally "Reformed Baptist," it's closer to it than TMS or TEDS. It is also one of the top evangelical seminaries in the world. I think most if not all of the faculty there will be generally Calvinistic, but not all of them (and that includes some prominent ones) are 5 point Calvinists. 

TMS is dispensational. A Calvinistic brand of dispensationalism is what you'll be taught there. Compare the TMS doctrinal statement to historic Baptist doctrinal statements like the LBCF, the Abstract of Principles (the official statement of SBTS) or even the New Hampshire Confession. (In particular, compare the ecclesiology and eschatology of those statements.) Anyone who is not on board with a pre-trib rapture will be out of step at TMS. That's not to denigrate TMS but it is what it is. I think their M.Div. program is what it is too, (a focus on languages and expository preaching geared to training pastors) whereas the other schools have more options to focus on certain things, whether it be Biblical Languages, expository preaching, Biblical Studies, etc. One advantage to TMS is that it's on the Grace Church campus and there would be unique opportunities to be mentored there in that respect that you might not get elsewhere unless you purposely seek it out. If you're familiar with that ministry you have a better idea what to expect. There certainly would be ministry opportunities available at SBTS. From what I can tell students are involved in multi-site megachurches to small country churches and everywhere in between.

TEDS is more broadly evangelical than either and has some excellent professors. It may also be the most expensive evangelical seminary in the country. (I don't know whether or not the Army will be paying your tuition or not or how much they will pay.) 

The Biblical Counseling departments at TMS and SBTS have a Biblical/Nouthetic Counseling focus as opposed to the integration of Biblical and secular psychological counseling methods that you will find at many evangelical seminaries. I have no idea what the focus at TEDS is in that regard. I would think that a lot of what Chaplains do falls under the umbrella of counseling, so this aspect may be something to consider. 

I answered based on the information you gave in this post. But on your profile you state that you adhere to the Westminster Standards. If so that makes you a Presbyterian at heart regardless of your current church membership. In that case, I'd recommend a Presbyterian school like RTS, Greenville, Mid America Reformed Seminary, WTS, WSCAL, Puritan Seminary or maybe a few others depending on a number of circumstances. 

If you disagree with infant baptism and Presbyterian church government then you can't subscribe to the Westminster Standards. (It involves a lot more than being a 5 pointer and not being a dispensationalist/pre-trib.) The Baptist equivalent to the Westminster Standards is the 2nd London Baptist Confession of 1689.


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## ArmyChaplain

Pilgrim said:


> Jaeden,
> 
> Welcome to the PuritanBoard!
> 
> One thing to keep in mind is that, fairly or not, people are going to tend to categorize you based on your degree, perhaps especially early in your "career." If you go to a dispensational school, it will be assumed if you are dispensational until proven otherwise. The same goes for having a degree from a Reformed/Presbyterian school, a Calvinistic Baptist school, a more Arminian Baptist school or whatever.
> 
> If you intend to remain Southern Baptist, SBTS would be the clear choice. A lot of churches are going to prefer a prospective pastor have a degree from one of their schools. (And which one it is can make a difference too in some cases.) While it's not confessionally "Reformed Baptist," it's closer to it than TMS or TEDS. It is also one of the top evangelical seminaries in the world. I think most if not all of the faculty there will be generally Calvinistic, but not all of them (and that includes some prominent ones) are 5 point Calvinists.
> 
> TMS is dispensational. A Calvinistic brand of dispensationalism is what you'll be taught there. Compare the TMS doctrinal statement to historic Baptist doctrinal statements like the LBCF, the Abstract of Principles (the official statement of SBTS) or even the New Hampshire Confession. (In particular, compare the ecclesiology and eschatology of those statements.) Anyone who is not on board with a pre-trib rapture will be out of step at TMS. That's not to denigrate TMS but it is what it is. I think their M.Div. program is what it is too, (a focus on languages and expository preaching geared to training pastors) whereas the other schools have more options to focus on certain things, whether it be Biblical Languages, expository preaching, Biblical Studies, etc. One advantage to TMS is that it's on the Grace Church campus and there would be unique opportunities to be mentored there in that respect that you might not get elsewhere unless you purposely seek it out. If you're familiar with that ministry you have a better idea what to expect. There certainly would be ministry opportunities available at SBTS. From what I can tell students are involved in multi-site megachurches to small country churches and everywhere in between.
> 
> TEDS is more broadly evangelical than either and has some excellent professors. It may also be the most expensive evangelical seminary in the country. (I don't know whether or not the Army will be paying your tuition or not or how much they will pay.)
> 
> The Biblical Counseling departments at TMS and SBTS have a Biblical/Nouthetic Counseling focus as opposed to the integration of Biblical and secular psychological counseling methods that you will find at many evangelical seminaries. I have no idea what the focus at TEDS is in that regard. I would think that a lot of what Chaplains do falls under the umbrella of counseling, so this aspect may be something to consider.
> 
> I answered based on the information you gave in this post. But on your profile you state that you adhere to the Westminster Standards. If so that makes you a Presbyterian at heart regardless of your current church membership. In that case, I'd recommend a Presbyterian school like RTS, Greenville, Mid America Reformed Seminary, WTS, WSCAL, Puritan Seminary or maybe a few others depending on a number of circumstances.
> 
> If you disagree with infant baptism and Presbyterian church government then you can't subscribe to the Westminster Standards. (It involves a lot more than being a 5 pointer and not being a dispensationalist/pre-trib.) The Baptist equivalent to the Westminster Standards is the 2nd London Baptist Confession of 1689.



Chris,

Thanks for your reply. Definitely gave me better insight than I've gotten from some people I have asked. I will take this all into consideration. I also have edited my profile now knowing your last statement.


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## mjmacvey

Jaeden,

Chris provided a very good overview of the schools you mentioned above. Because you hold to the London Baptist Confession, I would encourage you to check out the Institute of Reformed Baptist Studies (certificate) program which is offered in cooperation with the M.Div. degree at Westminster Seminary California. The IRBS folks subscribe to the LBC and offer a more covenantal (not dispensational) approach to the scriptures than you will find at TMS, TEDS, or SBTS. We have also had a number of chaplain candidates at WSC. You are welcome to contact me or Dr. Jim Renihan, Dean of IRBS, if you have specific questions regarding the program.


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## DMcFadden

Southern would give you the most flexibility (to continue with the SBC) or move in a Reformed Baptist direction. TEDS is so broadly evangelical that I'm afraid that you would end up more confused than convinced. TMS and WSCal would be limiting, depending on what your ultimate goals are. If there is a good chance that you will end up in the SBC, then do SBTS for certain. If you want to go in a more Presbyterian direction, WSCal would be the best credential. TMS carries the best dispensational credentials with a generally Calvinistic soteriology.


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## ArmyChaplain

Thank you for your input, Mark and Dennis.

Can someone please explain dispensationalism and 5 point Calvinism?


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## reformedtom

ArmyChaplain said:


> Thank you for your input, Mark and Dennis.
> 
> Can someone please explain dispensationalism and 5 point Calvinism?



Five point Calvinism is adherence to the "Five points of Calvinism" usually stated in the acronym "TULIP". (Total Depravity, Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement, Irresistible Grace and Perseverance of the Saints.)

Dispensationalism is a hermeneutic used to interpret the Bible. In Dispensationalist system God has dealt with human kind in varying ways throughout history; these different dealings are called dispensations. There are usually seven of them—for example, right now we live in the "church age" or the "age of grace"; during this dispensation, God deals with humans different then he will during the Millennial Kingdom or than he did during Adam's Life (which is usually called something along the lines of "the age of innocence".)

Hope that helps!


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## Damon Rambo

ArmyChaplain said:


> Thank you for your input, Mark and Dennis.
> 
> Can someone please explain dispensationalism and 5 point Calvinism?



The easiest distinction to make between Dispensationalism and Covenant Theology, regards the 10 commandments and the law. For instance, Jesse Johnson, with TMS, recently gave a lecture at the Shepherds Conference, which included a critique of Ray Comfort's "Way of the Master" evangelism method. In it, he, in an irenic fashion, attacked the method for saying that unbelievers would be judged by the 10 Commandments. 

Why? Because in Dispensationalism, the Old Testament law was not only fulfilled in Jesus, as we of Covenant persuasion would agree, but it never actually applied to anyone but the Jews. You heard right. According to dispensationalists, "You shall not murder" was part of a set of rules, given to a group of people, in a particular "dispensation," that never applied to Gentiles at all. They believe that the Old Testament moral laws are just an imperfect reflection of God's holiness, but are not actually part of "THE" law of God. They will frequently point to the Fourth commandment by way of demonstration. They look at you strange when you tell them it is morally wrong to break the sabbath!


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## Kiffin

It's been a while posting..

TEDS is broad in its approach, but I would still consider it conservative--no neo-orthodox or liberals (if any, maybe within the student body). I went there from '07-'10 to get my MA in Christian Studies, their MAR. 

Put it this way, I did my undergrad at a Fundamentalist, BAPTIST, DISPENSATIONAL college as a dispensational Baptist and left TEDS: 

-adhering to a covenant theology compatible with the LBCF
-taking on amilleniallism
-loving biblical theology (via Graeme Goldsworthy)
-learning to love and admire paedobaptists
-and affirming militantly the doctrines of grace

If you like the academic grind and being challenged by faculty and students, I'd recommend it!

Saying all that though, if MidAmerica Refomed Seminary was 30 minutes closer, that would have been my number 1!


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