# Driscoll has grown since 07.



## BlackCalvinist (Mar 28, 2010)

A few days ago, I posted a link to MacArthur's blast of Mark Driscoll based off of his 2007 sermons where he was very graphic in explaining what the imagery in the Song of Solomon meant.

A few people referred me to his *newer* sermon series on Song of Solomon (completed in 09') called "The Peasant Princess". 

Gotta say - he definitely has grown since 07. Apparently, CJ, Piper and others have indeed talked with him and he's reigned in his language to acceptable (publicly) levels. Morever, he's very biblical on the topic, which is GREAT (both practically and theologically). 

I normally don't recommend Driscoll (even last week, after reading some of the stuff he said previously, I was of the mindset that he should step down until his language is cleaned up).... so it's good to see that this issue has been (for the time being) resolved. 

I invite everyone (married folks specifically) to give him a listen here.


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## buggy (Mar 28, 2010)

What I most enjoy about Mark Driscoll is his ability to confront young men like myself about the necessity of biblical maturity. I must acknowledge that this is a great problem that I have, especially a few years ago. He is not afraid to talk straight to the point. I particularly appreciate his views on how men today as a whole are forsaking their leadership responsibilities in this society. Sometimes, being "nice" is not what we ought to behave, but rather in conformity to the Word of God is our first priority.


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## Jared (Mar 28, 2010)

When I first started listening to Driscoll, I would listen for a few minutes and then turn him off, because he would say something offensive. Now I really enjoy listening to him and my wife and I have listened to some of his sermons on the book of Luke and we both enjoyed them. She's not even reformed, which is funny that she likes Mark Driscoll.


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## Kevin (Mar 28, 2010)

i pray that i will be as open to correction as Mark has been. In this area, he is a great example to all preachers.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 31, 2010)

Listened further along (halfway through the series). 

Love it. Nothing crass and harsh. The Q&A sessions after each sermon are interesting.....

One in particular - a girl texted in a message about a guy who she was dating who was intimate with her but didn't want to commit. Driscoll said "Tell him to meet me here 30 mins. after service and we'll have a nice talk about it." He was serious.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 31, 2010)

Just a question out of spite maybe Kerry, did he ever acknowledge his overboard language? I am just questioning for reference so that I can tell others he repented. Of course you know, I could have some bad things in my life without ever denouncing them and looked cleaner in the long run to look a little more like the light so i wouldn't be criticized. BTW, I am not scared of harsh language. My friends will tell you that.


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## Andres (Mar 31, 2010)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Listened further along (halfway through the series).
> 
> Love it. Nothing crass and harsh. The Q&A sessions after each sermon are interesting.....
> 
> One in particular - a girl texted in a message about a guy who she was dating who was intimate with her but didn't want to commit. Driscoll said "Tell him to meet me here 30 mins. after service and we'll have a nice talk about it." He was serious.


 
Wait...so he's _matured_ so much but he answers a most serious question about sin with a veiled threat? At least that is how I understand the answer since you are chuckling about it. I'm all for joking but think about this context: (And I haven't listened to the message, so if I am missing something, please correct me) The context is that a minister of the gospel has just finished a biblical sermon. Afterward a female asks a serious question toward a pastor in regards to an important spiritual question and he makes a joke? I hope his joke at least came after a serious answer to the girl.


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## David (Mar 31, 2010)

Pastor Mark might have been joking a little there, but I don't doubt that he was also quite serious. Like LTL said, he really does have a strong concept of biblical manhood and maturity, and he doesn't tolerate adultery. If the boyfriend did show up, he would've got a good rebuke.


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## nicnap (Mar 31, 2010)

Andres said:


> BlackCalvinist said:
> 
> 
> > Listened further along (halfway through the series).
> ...


 
I do not think it was a joke...nor do I think it was a threat. I am nowhere near being Driscoll (stylistically), and yet I have told a young woman this, and there was not threat. I meant it; I met with the guy, and counseled with him. That being said, don't be too quick to "jump" on a guy - especially if it's a matter of simply not liking him personally. There are circumstances and factors of which you/I aren't even aware...he may have counseled with this girl before, etc. Just my


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## Andres (Mar 31, 2010)

Well, like I said I have no idea of the context, so what did he mean by, "tell him to meet me here 30 mins after service and we'll talk"? Was he being literal? Did he really want to have a conversation with the young man? If that's the case, then I retract my comments because that's an appropriate answer. However...based upon BlackCalvinist's laughing at the comment, I took it that it was along the lines of the guys who say, "why don't you try disrespecting me like that?" and imply some sort of physical retaliation. If that's what Driscoll meant, then I maintain it wasn't an approriate answer.


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## nicnap (Mar 31, 2010)

Andres said:


> Well, like I said I have no idea of the context, so what did he mean by, "tell him to meet me here 30 mins after service and we'll talk"? Was he being literal? Did he really want to have a conversation with the young man? If that's the case, then I retract my comments because that's an appropriate answer. However...based upon BlackCalvinist's laughing at the comment, I took it that it was along the lines of the guys who say, "why don't you try disrespecting me like that?" and imply some sort of physical retaliation. If that's what Driscoll meant, then I maintain it wasn't an approriate answer.



Agreed...with a caveat. As an elder, it is his duty to protect the flock. Precisely how would you respond to finding out that your daughter was _intimate_ with a guy, and then find out he has no intention of marrying her? Would you be a bit ruffled to protect your daughter, not only her innocence, but from sin in general? I can see why it may sound like a threat...and indeed it may have been (as you say, we don't have the context), but he is to shepherd the flock that he has been put in charge of; if there is a threat or danger to the flock (this young girl is in sin/this guy is a part of it) he is to protect her. (I am not advocating violence, but I am advocating taking sin seriously.)


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 31, 2010)

Andres said:


> Well, like I said I have no idea of the context,


 
How about this: take the time and listen through the series and you'll get your answer.  Then you won't have to worry about the context because you'll know it for yourself.


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## Andres (Mar 31, 2010)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > Well, like I said I have no idea of the context,
> ...


 
Or you could just tell us. What exactly did Driscoll mean when he said, ""Tell him to meet me here 30 mins. after service and we'll have a nice talk about it." We know you're not Driscoll, so give us your very best, sincere guess. You already said that his comment was not in jest, but at the same time, it made you laugh.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 31, 2010)

Matter of fact:

http://cdn.marshillchurch.org/media/2008/09/21/20080921_let-him-kiss-me_audio.mp3

53:47 mark begins the quote.

I do recommend listening to all of the first and second second sermons in the series. They include very useful statistics. 

In speaking against cohabitation, Driscoll made this comment in the above audio clip near the end of the sermon: "Cohabitation is not preparation for covenant. Two people, living in two separate houses, living two separate lives, but sleeping together is not preparation for marriage."

So when this question came up, you'll understand his reaction a bit better. 

As previously stated - listen for yourself and get the context.


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## Micah (Mar 31, 2010)

He's addressed this before in his Marriage and Men sermon. Here's the video.

[video=youtube;ZkaeAkJO0w8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkaeAkJO0w8[/video]

It's funny because Mark Driscoll is SCARY when it comes to this issue, and we all know what that young man has coming to him


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## awretchsavedbygrace (Mar 31, 2010)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Just a question out of spite maybe Kerry, did he ever acknowledge his overboard language? I am just questioning for reference so that I can tell others he repented. Of course you know, I could have some bad things in my life without ever denouncing them and looked cleaner in the long run to look a little more like the light so i wouldn't be criticized. BTW, I am not scared of harsh language. My friends will tell you that.


 
I'll probably listen to the audio, but Randy's comment above is accurate. He needs to publicly repent and apologize for the language he has used in the past. That shows biblical-manhood and maturity.


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 31, 2010)

Interestingly, we were reflecting upon the issue of ministry last evening with the men of my Church during some training.

I have never really found it very fruitful to "stalk" the movements of other ministries and what they're doing wrong. I certainly want to pay attention to general trends emerging from them but I look at it like this:

1. There is an unhealthy negative attitude that can spring from looking at everything a minister in another congregation is doing and define one's own sense of what your Church should be doing as a "...we're not going to be like Church X."
2. There is an unhealthy imitative attitude that can spring from looking at these Churches as models of "...let's be like that Church because they are so wildly successful..." and then a Church is defined by "...we have to be like Church X because that works...."

Ministry is hard work. It involves loving the sheep as you find them and getting to know them where you are and the needs and sins that are peculiar to your flock. If you're not called to minister in NYC or Seattle then don't try to lay a "template" down upon the flock of God that assumes that's exactly what they need in a particular congregation. A minister or elder ought to be studied in the Word and know his own flock and what he believes God commands. Where there are some helpful ways of looking at things to be gleaned from across the spectrum of ministries they might help a particular situation. That also means that you ought not in a wholesale way condemn everything another Church is doing and make it your aim to follow everything done in order to rail against it.

I guess what I'm saying is that if one is really busy about teaching the Word and getting involved in people's lives in the local setting that you might find helpful suggestions or things to avoid by looking at public figures but most Churches are 100 members or less. Be faithful where you are and you won't have time to be obsessing about whether or not you should be decrying everything somewhere else or trying to lay a template down on a local congregation that would only indicate that you don't really know your own flock but simply study "theoretical" flocks.

Consequently, because we have a gracious God, I am gladdened to hear that Pastor Driscoll is maturing. I would expect nothing less. I have benefited from some of his sermons and writings while I self-consciously would not implement other parts of his ministry. I do believe he is seeking to honor God in his ministry and trust in our common Savior who perfects us all to the perfect man in Christ. Ministry is hard work and he deserves our prayers just as we need the prayers of others as the Gospel assaults the gates of Hell.


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## Kevin (Mar 31, 2010)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Just a question out of spite maybe Kerry, did he ever acknowledge his overboard language? I am just questioning for reference so that I can tell others he repented. Of course you know, I could have some bad things in my life without ever denouncing them and looked cleaner in the long run to look a little more like the light so i wouldn't be criticized. BTW, I am not scared of harsh language. My friends will tell you that.


 
Yes he has. I have heard it from the pulpit & seen it on his blog.


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## kvanlaan (Apr 3, 2010)

Just a quick question: is his older stuff still out there in quantity? I would like to be able to recommend him to some people I know but want to make sure that I'm not directing them to 2% new and 'clean' stuff and 98% 'other'. (Or is there a site that has only the new stuff?)


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## Kevin (Apr 3, 2010)

send them, to the Luke series.


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 4, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> Just a quick question: is his older stuff still out there in quantity? I would like to be able to recommend him to some people I know but want to make sure that I'm not directing them to 2% new and 'clean' stuff and 98% 'other'. (Or is there a site that has only the new stuff?)


 
The bulk of it is still out there. I guess if you stay away from anything sex-related before 2008, you should be ok. 

Meh.


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