# What intro. apologetic/witnessing resources should I give a brother for his journey?



## CDM (Mar 16, 2006)

A brother in the Lord at work today asked if him and I could start going out to lunch (maybe monthly) so we can talk about apologetics, philosophy, theology, and gospel proclamation. [I immediately thanked God for this opportunity to serve one of his people.]

We have discussed these things before and he knows I have a passion and knowledge of these subjects. He'd like to "improve his skills" in deconstructing unbeliever arguments including gospel sharing. He'd also like to strengthen his faith and knowledge of the Lord as he knows this will better equip him for the task.

I had done some preliminary explaining of the differences between systematic theologies (i.e., Calvinism & Arminianism) and methods of apologetics to kind of get him thinking. He seems to be a strong believer but a typical attendee of a local Baptist (Arminian/Evangelical) mega-church. Meaning, there isn't much discipling, elder overseeing, accountability, etc. In fact, I have discovered, by my brother who is a member there, they don't even partake of the Lord's Supper except on request! 

I firstly encouraged to make a disciplined effort to read the Word, study, and meditate on it. But my question is what should I encourage him to start reading to motivate him? Any suggestions? Should it be Apologetics via Van Til & Co? Should it be on systematic theologies like Calvinism? Should it be writings discussing how to debunk Darwinian evolution (he did express an interest in these particular arguments)?

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated. I'd also welcome prayer for him and I as we start to meet at lunch.

To God be the glory!

-Chris

[Edited on 3-16-2006 by mangum]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Mar 16, 2006)

Has he ever studied Logic? I would start off with that, most basically. Memorizing the entire Bible wouldn't hurt, either.


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## JohnV (Mar 16, 2006)

Here is a site that someone put on the Puritan Board that I think is very, very helpful. Link. Go to the Apologetics course. Go through the lessons carefully. Pay especial attention to the very first one, as to your comportment and attitude. Jerram Barrs is a former L'Abri lecturer and counselor. He has taken in Dr. Schaeffer's humble approach to helping others.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Has he ever studied Logic? I would start off with that, most basically.



That's actually close to what I did. I got Geisler's (please don't make fun of me) book on logic and put it to use. It was okay. Copi and Cohen, though, that's it. Seriously, many arguments can be won just by pointing out logical fallacies. Not to mention it will also train one to think more clearly. 

Mars Hill also did several logic sets that I recommend, if you don't want to do the geisler thing. Jim Nance did them, I think.

JohnV: I actually got to hear Jerram Barrs in person a few weeks ago. He is indeed a humble and godly man.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 16, 2006)

http://marshill.org/


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## JohnV (Mar 16, 2006)

> _Jacob said_
> JohnV: I actually got to hear Jerram Barrs in person a few weeks ago. He is indeed a humble and godly man.


In his introductory session, Jerram Barrs asks his students to write a letter. It suits this scenario to a tee. He explains what it is that should be in the letter, what would be an acceptable letter. It is to be a letter to someone to whom the student is going to practice what he preaches. So he sets down a few rules. This is already quite an introduction to doing apologetics by itself, without going at all into apologetics as a subject. Its just looking at the task at hand, and how it ought to be approached before going into all the details of what can be or must be said while undertaking the task. In my estimation, there is no use in taking on any apologetic or apology without first going into this important area first. 

After this, my recommendation is to understand that any sources that are used usually do an analysis of the the history of apologetics first, and that these are analyses, not the Bible on apologetics or its history.Be wary of not doing an appraisal yourself, but instead relying on analyses, or worse yet, analyses of analyses. Do your own analysis, on whatever level you are, whether just starting out, or well into it. You have to read the old apologeties in light of themselves, not in the light that others cast over them. 

Dr. Van Til did analysis and method at the same time. That can be OK, but you have to watch out for some traps that way, that the right things are motivating each, instead of being spiralled by each other.

There are a lot of resources available on the I-net. And usually they divide themselves into categories of methods. Try to avoid this division of methods if at all possible.


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## CDM (Mar 16, 2006)

Thank you all for your help.



> Here is a site that someone put on the Puritan Board that I think is very, very helpful. Link. Go to the Apologetics course. Go through the lessons carefully. Pay especial attention to the very first one, as to your comportment and attitude.



A great site. If he should be so inclined to actually "take a course" this is where I will direct him. Thanks.



> That's actually close to what I did. I got Geisler's (please don't make fun of me) book on logic and put it to use. It was okay. Copi and Cohen, though, that's it. Seriously, many arguments can be won just by pointing out logical fallacies. Not to mention it will also train one to think more clearly.
> 
> Mars Hill also did several logic sets that I recommend, if you don't want to do the Geisler thing. Jim Nance did them, I think.



Which Copi and Cohen books? Would these fit a newbie in Logic? I don't want to overwhelm him early on. I wouldn't necessarily be against Geisler if that is what you think is the best Logic book for newbies.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Memorizing the entire Bible wouldn't hurt, either.




I know you were being tongue in cheek, but seriously, consider: If someone has absorbed proverbs and psalms, then they already have a strong apologetic foundation. In other words, they have cultivated their own spiritual formation around the idea that first we know God, then we are wise. Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom. 

This in turn cultivates obedience which in turn produces more wisdom, etc, etc. 

Now, back to the logic thingy: Most Americans aren't logical, and that's being nice. I hope this doesn't sound crass, but a working knowledge of syllogisms and if-then statements (modus ponens, etc), coupled with a large resovoir of scripture knowledge would make one a very effective apologete/theologue.

One more thing that hasn't been said: cultivate public speaking and communication skills. That does wonders. That's my weakest area. I mean, I am not afraid to speak and have done so often, but I really need to polish up in this area.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by mangum_
> Thank you all for your help.
> 
> 
> ...



Don't do Copi yet. It would terrify him (and still does me). It is about 80 dollars and tells you every thing you need to know.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Mar 16, 2006)

Singing the Psalms is a good way to memorize them. Sorry, I had to.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 16, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Singing the Psalms is a good way to memorize them. Sorry, I had to.




Fair enough. I left myself open for that one.


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## CDM (Mar 17, 2006)

Does anyone have a copy of Copi and Cohen's Introduction to Logic they are willing to sell? I see the latest, 12th, edition, is $100.00. 

I can't justify that cost.


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