# Hell



## travis (Feb 5, 2007)

Any good books on the reformed thought of Hell? It is such a difficult subject. If God is omnipresent, then He must be in Hell as well, no?

So what do you think that is what hell is? A sinner being consumed by the fire of God's Glory? Like Isaiah when he ascended to the throne and bascially becamse undone in the Lord's presence? That is what I think of when I think of hell. Your sin completely exposed to the wrath and anger of God's Glory. Being in the presecne of that which you hate the most.

I know the Greek Orthodox do not draw a line between heaven and hell... they believe it is the same place.


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## Davidius (Feb 5, 2007)

travis said:


> So what do you think that is what hell is? A sinner being consumed by the fire of God's Glory? Like Isaiah when he ascended to the throne and bascially becamse undone in the Lord's presence? That is what I think of when I think of hell. Your sin completely exposed to the wrath and anger of God's Glory. Being in the presecne of that which you hate the most.



This is an interesting thought. I had never pictured it that way before, with the flames being the consuming fire of God's glory, I mean. I don't have any books to recommend, just thought I would say that your post made me think a little!


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## Chris (Feb 5, 2007)

travis said:


> So what do you think that is what hell is?




Imagine the trembling of the perfect Lamb of God as He went out to drink the cup of God's warth. 

Now imagine that mere mortal man has to endure the same wrath, for eternity.

Yes, I believe God is there, meting out perfect, eternal justice.


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## bowhunter1961 (Feb 5, 2007)

just being kept away from Gods presense would be hell enough, then add in forever, its just too hard to imagine. then when you lose someone that most likely wasnt elect.....its just too much. then i think, why me? i kno the verses about Him chosing, but why me? im nothing He needs or wants...........its just so very 'umbling.


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## jaybird0827 (Feb 5, 2007)

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=62506194419


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## No Longer A Libertine (Feb 5, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> The sinner will not be away from God's presence in hell - only his loving presence.
> 
> In fact, heaven and hell might be within sight of one another.


Do you think the believer in his glorified state might still see the trembling perfection of His wrath? I hope not, even at a distance I would quake.


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## No Longer A Libertine (Feb 5, 2007)

travis said:


> Any good books on the reformed thought of Hell? It is such a difficult subject. If God is omnipresent, then He must be in Hell as well, no?
> 
> So what do you think that is what hell is? A sinner being consumed by the fire of God's Glory? Like Isaiah when he ascended to the throne and bascially becamse undone in the Lord's presence? That is what I think of when I think of hell. Your sin completely exposed to the wrath and anger of God's Glory. Being in the presecne of that which you hate the most.
> 
> I know the Greek Orthodox do not draw a line between heaven and hell... they believe it is the same place.


FYI, it bothered me to see the name Travis beneath the the bold text of Hell.


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## MW (Feb 5, 2007)

Two books published by SDG: Thomas Vincent's Fire and Brimstone, part 3; Robert Bolton's Four Last Things, section About Hell. The Reformed view is that hell is a place as well as a state, and its sufferings should be understood in terms of the pain of loss and the pain of sense.

Heaven is a place of perfect love, and there is no tormenting fear in love, hence no view of the wrath of God against sin; unless it is the view of Christ as the lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world, but even He is seen on the throne of glory, not in the throes of suffering.


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## Arch2k (Feb 5, 2007)

See Ted Donnelly on Heaven and Hell:







Here is his audio lecture series on hell as well:

http://www.gracesermons.com/hisbygrace/Page7.html#donnally

Highly recommended!


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## Theoretical (Feb 6, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> My Master's thesis was on the subject of hell at Reformed Theological Seminary. Go to Amazon and search for the title "Seeing Hell."


Wow, that looks really interesting and rather compelling. This thread is intriguing me, as I've been figuring out how best to address issues of Hell and the believer's persepective on it, especially from heaven. I think I'll get your work in my next order of books, as this matter does not seem to be a very well addressed area in scholarship and Christian thought it seems.


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## PresReformed (Feb 6, 2007)

W.G.T.Shedd's _The Doctrine of Endless Punishment_ is another excellent resource about Hell. I definitely believe that God is present in Hell. It is not an absence from His presence, but rather exposure to His full wrath.


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## polemic_turtle (Feb 6, 2007)

The Doctrine of Hell, prt 1 by Dr. John Gerstner

Very very good sermon on the topic. He's a fiery preacher on this topic!


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## javacodeman (Feb 6, 2007)

To add my  :

I remember hearing the phrase "a Devil's Hell" in sermons in the past. I cannot believe that preachers would use this phrase. I want to go back to those people and say, "Hell belongs to God, not to Satan. Hell is God's display of His wrath on sin." Yes I do believe God is present and controlling Hell, and the wicked will not be able to bear it.



> Psalm 1:5
> 5 Therefore *the wicked will not stand in the judgment*,
> Nor sinners in the assembly of the righteous.


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## Theogenes (Feb 6, 2007)

Jonathan Edwards wrote that the thing that made heaven heaven was the presence of God and the thing that made hell hell was the presence of God. The first being His presence in grace and mercy and the second being His presence in the fullness of His Holy wrath against sin.

Jim


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