# Must I Forgive Everyone Always?



## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 30, 2012)

I was reading A. W. Pink's The Seven Sayings of the Savior on the Cross and was intrigued by Pink's insistence the forgiveness is only owed by Christians to offenders that have repented of their offence. This is contrary to the idea that all Christians should forgive everyone all the time regardless of the offenders repentance or lack thereof.



> Does scripture teach that under all circumstances we must always forgive? I answer emphatically, it does not. The word of God says, "If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him. And if he trespass against thee seven times a day, and seven times in a day turn again to thee saying, I repeat, thou shalt forgive him" (Luke 17:3,4). Here we are plainly taught that a condition must be met by the offender before we may pronounce forgiveness. The one who has wronged us must first "repent", that is, judge himself for his wrong and give evidence of his sorrow over it. But suppose the offender does not repent? Then I am not to forgive him.
> 
> But let there be no misunderstanding of our meaning here. Even though the one who has wronged me does not repent, nevertheless, I must not harbor ill-feelings against him. There must be no hatred or malice cherished in the heart. Yet, on the other hand, I must not treat the offender as if he had done no wrong. That would be to condone the offence, and therefore I should fail to uphold the requirements of righteousness, and this the believer is ever to do. Does God ever forgive where there is no repentance? No, for scripture declares, "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9). One thing more. If one has injured me and repented not, while I cannot forgive him and treat him as though he had not offended, nevertheless, not only must! hold no malice in my heart against him, but I must also pray for him. Here is the value of Christ’s perfect example. If we cannot forgive, we can pray for God to forgive him.
> 
> ...



I would be interested to know some of your thoughts on this question. Must I forgive everyone always unconditionally? or only those offenders who are repentant?


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## J. Dean (Jul 30, 2012)

Pink is correct. Read Luke 17:3

You cannot forgive an impenitent person. Certainly God does not. Forgiveness is meaningless to the impenitent. Now certainly we ought to be WILLING and ready to forgive, and not hold grudges, but the idea of forgiveness implies contrition on the part of the offender.

Pink is not the only one who has stated this. R.C. Sproul also states this. And based on the passage in Luke, it seems as if Jesus is stating this as well.


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## jogri17 (Jul 30, 2012)

Sometimes we feel hurt and in reality there could have been no wrong to us objectively. Feelings are how we react to things, so I'm always careful now about situations. Bottom line from personal experience is yes, because if you don't forgive even someone for doing something horribly objectively wrong to you, the anger, the bitterness will eat yourself up and God didn't wait for us to ask for forgiveness to save us, he sent Jesus in History to accomplish it objectively and truly before we were even born. 

The feeling to want to be entitled to be angry over someone is sinful. It is our way of trying to make ourselves somehow stand above them morally, of self-justification rooted in our pride. I don't know how when one stands before the cross, one cannot just weep and forgive anybody unconditionally... all the evil I feel that has been to me pales in comparison to what was done to the perfect lamb of God. 

just my 2cents.


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## ChristianTrader (Jul 30, 2012)

5 Problems with Unconditional Forgiveness | A Brick in the Valley


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 30, 2012)

jogri17 said:


> Sometimes we feel hurt and in reality there could have been no wrong to us objectively. Feelings are how we react to things, so I'm always careful now about situations. Bottom line from personal experience is yes, because if you don't forgive even someone for doing something horribly objectively wrong to you, the anger, the bitterness will eat yourself up and God didn't wait for us to ask for forgiveness to save us, he sent Jesus in History to accomplish it objectively and truly before we were even born.
> 
> The feeling to want to be entitled to be angry over someone is sinful. It is our way of trying to make ourselves somehow stand above them morally, of self-justification rooted in our pride. I don't know how when one stands before the cross, one cannot just weep and forgive anybody unconditionally... all the evil I feel that has been to me pales in comparison to what was done to the perfect lamb of God.



I'm not sure you read the opening post. I'd like you to interact with Pink's exegesis of Like 17:3&4. 

And allow me also to address your argument about our salvation being accomplished two thousand years ago: that's true. However, in eternity, God predestined me to be saved through the finished work of Christ on the cross two thousand years ago. However I did not recieve the forgiveness of my sins until 1996 when, by the work of the Holy Spirit, I truly repented of my sins and trusted in Christ for the forgiveness of them. So it would be wrong to say that God forgives us apart from our repentance. He does not.


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 30, 2012)

I have heard this idea before and it seems to make sense if you hold to reconciliation being a necessary part of forgiveness. Yet i think most people use the term forgive to mean a release of negative feelings and a turning over of judgment on the situation to God. I do not know if the term has such a narrow usage as to be only appropriate when the concept of reconciliation is in mind.


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## py3ak (Jul 30, 2012)

This has been discussed before:
http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/must-we-forgive-71024/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/must-we-always-forgive-even-if-god-doesnt-66693/


Different people understand different things by forgiveness:
1. Mental release of an offense;
2. Reconciliation with another person;
3. Restoration of a pre-existing relationship.

There are probably better ways of distinguishing them, but hopefully that conveys a general idea. For the second one, repentance seems an indispensable presupposition. But you can have one and two without having three (e.g., you forgive someone who stole your money and live amicably with him but don't give him the opportunity to steal from you again), or you can have one and three without two (e.g., the wife who realized her husband is not going to apologize and so decides to carry on as though the offense had not happened). Anyone who insists on repentance for the first is, I think, simply wrong; anyone who demands repentance for the third is likely to have a very small circle of distant acquaintances and no close friends at all.


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## lynnie (Jul 30, 2012)

I think a lot of it is semantics. We had a discussion of this at small group and by the time the Pink side was done qualifying that even though you don't have to forgive, you can't be bitter and you have to give the situation to God and trust God with it and pray for the one who wronged you, and so forth, in the end you end up where the person who says we always forgive ends up. 

And that person saying we always must forgive throws in some qualifiers that it does not mean you have to stay in a relationship where somebody keeps abusing you ( or lying or stealing or whatever), and in the end they end up at pretty much the same place the Pink faction ends up. So honestly I don't see a lot of difference.

The real key is the verse "pray for one who despitefully uses you". If you obey that honestly and truly do pray for them, you will feel something akin to forgiving, no matter what your doctrine about this. And if you find yourself struggling to pray for them even if you spout that forgiveness is an act of the will and you will to forgive, probably you have not forgiven.


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## Jackie Kaulitz (Jul 30, 2012)

Unoriginalname said:


> I have heard this idea before and it seems to make sense if you hold to reconciliation being a necessary part of forgiveness. Yet i think most people use the term forgive to mean a release of negative feelings and a turning over of judgment on the situation to God. I do not know if the term has such a narrow usage as to be only appropriate when the concept of reconciliation is in mind.



I recently went through a huge trial in which I had to deal with the question of forgiveness towards a person who was unrepentant. I hope what I learned was the truth.  So here goes: It seems there are two versions of forgiveness: Vertical (between me and God) and horizontal (between me and the offending party). RC Sproul teaches this in his booklet about "Guilt".

So, I prayed and asked God to grant me a heart of forgiveness and graciously He did. So my vertical relationship was restored. I could think about what the other person did without hatred, anger, bitterness etc. 

However, I did NOT reconcile with that person because they continued doing the same behaviors and their "sorrys but" were not true and I knew it. So even when he rushed out a quick "Sorry BUT!" it was completely not heart-felt or real and it was always followed by a "so-and-so deserved it." And true to his behavior in the last 2 years, he continued the same offenses and still continues them to this day. 


Many around me accused me of being "unforgiving" but I explained that I forgave between me and God but the relationship cannot be restored until the person stops being abusive - repents and changes. I watched 6+ people force themselves to "horizontally forgive" because they thought there was only one type of forgiveness and they all got abused by him again and again until they finally came to realize that their going back again and again was doing nobody any good and overlooking his sins was really giving him a license to freely sin. I think they have finally learned that turning themselves into punching bags wasn't what the Bible was trying to teach.


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## Andres (Jul 31, 2012)

Paul Tripp and Timothy Lane cover this in their book, "Relationships: A Mess Worth Making". I'm at work now, but tomorrow I will see if I can look it up and relay what they say, but I know they do say that Christians are called to forgive everyone, regardless of repentance and I agree.


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## JennyG (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe Lynnie is right that a lot of apparent disagreement comes from simply using the vocabulary differently


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## fralo4truth (Jul 31, 2012)

Let me ask this question. 

If I were to forgive an impenitent person, would that not be a salve to his conscious that he could continue in his ways, but yet still have the benefit of remaining in good standings with me?

By calling for his repentance before I forgive, would this not likewise be an encouragement that he should repent and return to the path of righteousness?

I may be guilty of rationalizing, but this position seems to me as being in-line with the general proclamation of the gospel to sinners.


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## OPC'n (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe we should. Only bc you could harbor resentment which is a sin.


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## Andres (Jul 31, 2012)

Okay, I tracked down the book, _Relationships: A Mess Worth Making_ and here is what Lane and Tripp say on Luke 17:3 and forgiveness: 



> ...the Bible is full of calls to forgive. There are two that almost seem contradictory: Mark 11:25 and Luke 17:3. Mark 11:25 says, “And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” Luke 17:3 says, “If your brother sins, rebuke him, _and if he repents_, forgive him” (authors’ emphasis). Mark 11:25 seems to say that we are to forgive someone no matter what, while Luke 17:3 seems to say that you only forgive someone if he repents. Which one of these verses is right? They’re both right!
> 
> The verses are talking about two different aspects of forgiveness. Mark 11:25 is talking about forgiveness as a heart attitude before God. The context is worship. When I consider someone’s sin as I stand before the Lord, I am called to have an attitude of forgiveness toward the person who sinned against me. This is non-negotiable. I do not have the right to withhold forgiveness and harbor bitterness in my heart. Luke 17:3, on the other hand, is talking about forgiveness as a horizontal transaction between me and the offender. This is often referred to as reconciliation. The point Luke 17:3 makes is that, while I am to have an attitude of forgiveness before the Lord, I can only grant forgiveness to the other person if he repents and admits he has sinned against me. Even if he never does this, I am called to maintain an attitude of forgiveness toward the offender. The vertical aspect of forgiveness is unconditional, but the horizontal aspect depends upon the offender admitting guilt and asking for forgiveness.



The authors go on to give an example of infidelity in a marriage. A spouse would be required per Mark 11:25 to forgive the cheating spouse unconditionally before God. Luke 17:3 would come in to play in regard to reconciliation - until the cheating spouse repents, then the other spouse would not reconcile the relationship and divorce would most likely come into play. 

Hope this helps. If anyone hasn't read this book, I recommend it.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jul 31, 2012)

Jackie Kaulitz said:


> I recently went through a huge trial in which I had to deal with the question of forgiveness towards a person who was unrepentant. I hope what I learned was the truth.  So here goes: It seems there are two versions of forgiveness: Vertical (between me and God) and horizontal (between me and the offending party). RC Sproul teaches this in his booklet about "Guilt".
> 
> So, I prayed and asked God to grant me a heart of forgiveness and graciously He did. So my vertical relationship was restored. I could think about what the other person did without hatred, anger, bitterness etc.
> 
> ...



Thank you for sharing this, Jackie. 

You are correct: we are always to humble ourselves before God and not walk in bitterness or hatred, even toward our enemy. 

When another does not repent who is within the household of faith, either love must cover, or, failing that (and we believe that we must address it directly), we engage in terms of the Matthew 18 and Luke 17 process. Ideally, the brother or sister comes around (assuming we're right, an assumption that the Matthew 18 process should prove or disprove) or, we pray not, may even be excommunicated. All along the way we are to be humble and loving: ready and willing to forgive as is our God in Christ, dealing with each other as God in Christ has forgiven us (and remembering that we've sinned against our loving and forgiving God more than anyone has sinned against us). 

I do think that the Scripture pictures the ministering of outward forgiveness only in the case when someone repents. For example, to say, "I forgive you anyway," to a fellow believer who has just said, "I don't believe that I sinned against you," is only antagonizing. Even more so, to say to an enemy not seeking forgiveness, "I forgive you," is not loving to them and only increases hostility. The ministering of outward forgivness, then, necessary for full reconciliation, occurs only upon the repentance of the erring party; otherwise, saying "I forgive you" to someone not seeking it only increases the animosity of the alleged offending party. 

Having said that, it is important to bring the relevant Marcan passage to bear hear, along with the Lucan and the Matthean. Mark 11:25 says, "And whenever you stand praying, forgive, if you have anything against anyone, so that your Father also who is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses." This enables us both to walk with our God as we should and to live as peaceably as possible with others, as much as lies within us. We are not to carry around this unforgiveness but forgive before the Lord and leave the consequences with Him.

It sounds to me, Jackie, that this is the sort of thing that you have endeavored to do.

Peace,
Alan


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## Romans922 (Jul 31, 2012)

Bring the Books: Loving the Unrepentant


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## Alan D. Strange (Jul 31, 2012)

Andres said:


> Okay, I tracked down the book, Relationships: A Mess Worth Making and here is what Lane and Tripp say on Luke 17:3 and forgiveness:
> 
> ...the Bible is full of calls to forgive. There are two that almost seem contradictory: Mark 11:25 and Luke 17:3. Mark 11:25 says, “And when you stand praying, if you hold anything against anyone, forgive him, so that your Father in heaven may forgive you your sins.” Luke 17:3 says, “If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him” (authors’ emphasis). Mark 11:25 seems to say that we are to forgive someone no matter what, while Luke 17:3 seems to say that you only forgive someone if he repents. Which one of these verses is right? They’re both right!
> 
> ...



I think, Andrew, that we cross-posted. Thanks for bringing out what Tim and Paul were saying. I was endeavoring to say the same thing!

Peace,
Alan


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## moral necessity (Jul 31, 2012)

I believe Pink is speaking of forgiveness in the broad sense, namely that of treating the other party as if nothing happened. For he says, "...nevertheless, I must not harbor ill-feelings against him. There must be no hatred or malice cherished in the heart. Yet, on the other hand, I must not treat the offender as if he had done no wrong." 

I think there is a way to walk the middle ground, and declare a genuine forgiveness to the person, while still maintianing a safe distance from them so as to not be hurt again in quite the same manner/degree. I wish the element of kindness leading to repentence was relied upon more. Although it may not affect the person for an entire year or so, I have seen it become a seed that remains in a person's mind 10-20 years later, and where, eventually, it has sprouted into a softening of their hearts towards their ways. I would hope I could take a few blows and bear a few burdens for that result. I actually have...

Blessings...


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 31, 2012)

If I may add,

The display of a forgiving spirit--even if we feel forced (by theological finesse) to demure from a full consent to someone's precise verbal expression--we must admit can be a catalyst that actually helps break through a hardened sinner's heart.

I am reminded of at least three episodes.
*One*, a man I know dealt with the negligent death of his son by the hands of that son's best friend. He would say that he forgave the perpetrator before God that day, and sought to convey that sentiment to the man at fault. For whatever reason, that individual has yet (sfaik) to take genuine responsibility for his actions, and seek the mercy of Heaven above the offer of a father's forgiveness. But, testimony of the forgiving spirit has led to much spiritual good far beyond the one guilty party.

*Two*, If I recall correctly, Francis Nigel Lee went to the prison where the murderer of his son was incarcerated, and led him to the Lord. If he had harbored real resentment toward such a man, it seems unquestionable that would have vitiated his gospel witness considerably.

*Three*, I can recall a video (its on the internet) of the sentencing of the GreenRiverKiller, in which survivor after survivor (given their opportunity to speak at the sentencing phase of the trial) vented their hate at the surly hater, who sat impassively and unphased. Until one old man stood up, and speaking on behalf of his slain daughter and his family, forgave (however you want to construe his expression) the murderer. Whose countenance crumbled, and he wept.

Was it just a "cheap shot?" And was he just caught-off guard by an unexpected shift in the tenor of the speeches? Who can say? Maybe, he turned to hate that man more than the rest for breaking him, after he recovered his composure. But the point is: that one clear expression of forgiveness had a dramatically different effect on a man, whose reservoir of hate was more than enough to weather all the animosity of dozens of victims.


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## Miss Marple (Jul 31, 2012)

I'd be interested in the application of "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" to this question.

If I ask God to forgive me as I forgive others, I feel as though I must forgive them even if they deny a particular sin or aren't sorry enough or keep repeating it.

Because I think it is probable that I have sins I don't recognize. I doubt my sorrow is deep enough, at least usually, for the ones I realize. And I am sorry to say there are some sins I probably repeat, again denying, whether sinfully or stupidly, that they are in fact sins.

Thoughts?


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## NB3K (Jul 31, 2012)

Miss Marple said:


> I'd be interested in the application of "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" to this question.




If I may, I would like to post an excerpt from a sermon I delivered at my church on a Wednesday night prayer meeting. This excerpt comes from the Lord's Prayer that I was asked to expound on by my pastor.



> *Mat 6:12 and forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.*
> 
> Next we are instructed to ask God to forgive us of our debts in the same way we have forgiven our debtors.
> 
> ...



I hope this helps.


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## Jackie Kaulitz (Jul 31, 2012)

NB3K said:


> Miss Marple said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be interested in the application of "forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors" to this question.
> ...



Thank you for this post. I can't tell you how many people I know who misinterpret the Beatitudes. I had also gotten this wrong over the years (listening to MacArthur?) but found Michael Horton this last year and he straightened me out. Thank you God! It's terrible sad that so many of us miss this all the time!


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