# 600 60 6 and Nero



## T.A.G. (May 5, 2011)

Do you believe there is any correlation between the two?


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## J. Dean (May 5, 2011)

R.C. Sproul talked about this. The numbers add up to Nero's name. What's interesting is that the number "616" is also used, and this also equals Nero (The actual formula escapes me now, but one number works for Hebrew and the other works for Greek).


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## Bill The Baptist (May 5, 2011)

Simon Kistemaker in his commentary on Revelation points out that 6 is the number of incompletion, as opposed to 7 which is the number of completion. In Hebrew literature, when something is repeated three times, this is meant for emphasis. So the number 666 represents Satan in that he almost defeats Christ, but is ultimately the one who is defeated.


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## Tripel (May 5, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> So the number 666 represents Satan in that he almost defeats Christ



Huh??? Almost???


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## baron (May 5, 2011)

J. Dean said:


> What's interesting is that the number "616" is also used, and this also equals Nero (The actual formula escapes me now, but one number works for Hebrew and the other works for Greek).



I thought 616 was the number in the Latin text?


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## Grillsy (May 5, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> In Hebrew literature, when something is repeated three times, this is meant for emphasis. So the number 666 represents Satan in that he almost defeats Christ, but is ultimately the one who is defeated.



It isn't three 6's it is the number six hundred and sixty six.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 5, 2011)

Tripel said:


> Huh??? Almost???



Well, almost is relative. The point is that Satan does not suceed.


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## sastark (May 5, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> 600 60 6 and Nero
> 
> Do you believe there is any correlation between the two?




No.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 5, 2011)

Grillsy said:


> It isn't three 6's it is the number six hundred and sixty six.



Which when written consists of three sixes.


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## Grillsy (May 5, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Which when written consists of three sixes.



Did they use the same numerals as we do?

ὧδε ἡ σοφία ἐστίν· ὁ ἔχων νοῦν ψηφισάτω τὸν ἀριθμὸν τοῦ θηρίου, ἀριθμὸς γὰρ ἀνθρώπου ἐστίν· καὶ ὁ ἀριθμὸς 
αὐτοῦ ἑξακόσιοι ἑξήκοντα ἕξ.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 5, 2011)

Grillsy said:


> Did they use the same numerals as we do?



Allow me to quote from More Than Conquerors by William Hendriksen, who was fluent in both Greek and Hebrew and could read in 20 languages.

"Nevertheless, let not the believer despair. Let him remember that the number of the beast is the number of man. Now, man was created on the sixth day. Six, moreover, is not seven and never reaches seven. It always fails to attain perfection; that is, it never becomes seven. Six means missing the mark, or failure. Seven means perfection or victory. Rejoice, oh church of God! The victory is on your side. The number of the beast is 666, that is ,failure upon failure upon failure! It is the number of man, for the beast glories in man; and must fail."


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## tcalbrecht (May 5, 2011)

See Gentry, _Before Jerusalem Fell: Dating the Book of Revelation_. As he points out, one's conclusion is generally based on whether one interprets this number as primarily symbolic or crpytographic.


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## T.A.G. (May 5, 2011)

Yeah, he states the same thing in his youtube video, I know Bahnsen used this argument as well. But I know others say this isnt the case so I was curious to see why.


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## Kevin (May 5, 2011)

Yes.


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## Grillsy (May 5, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Allow me to quote from More Than Conquerors by William Hendriksen, who was fluent in both Greek and Hebrew and could read in 20 languages.
> 
> "Nevertheless, let not the believer despair. Let him remember that the number of the beast is the number of man. Now, man was created on the sixth day. Six, moreover, is not seven and never reaches seven. It always fails to attain perfection; that is, it never becomes seven. Six means missing the mark, or failure. Seven means perfection or victory. Rejoice, oh church of God! The victory is on your side. The number of the beast is 666, that is ,failure upon failure upon failure! It is the number of man, for the beast glories in man; and must fail."



I don't agree with that interpretation. Again, I will repeat, it is not the three individual sixes it is six hundred sixty-six or six hundred threescore and six, if you like.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 5, 2011)

Grillsy said:


> I don't agree with that interpretation. Again, I will repeat, it is not the three individual sixes it is six hundred sixty-six or six hundred threescore and six, if you like.



Obviously we are all entitled to our opinion, but I would point out that Dr. Hendriksen was the preimmenent New Testament scholar of the twentieth century, if not all time.


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## Rich Koster (May 5, 2011)

The common thread I see, with almost all speculations that I have read, points to Rome and/or Papacy.


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## VictorBravo (May 5, 2011)

Grillsy said:


> I don't agree with that interpretation. Again, I will repeat, it is not the three individual sixes it is six hundred sixty-six or six hundred threescore and six, if you like.



I guess I’m missing your point. The Greek you posted had “hex” (Greek for “six") as a prefix twice, and then it was followed by a “hex.” I do think a reader would notice three “hexes” in a phrase. Now, what they make of it is indeed a matter of presupposition.

Be that as that may, I often have wondered about a connection to Solomon’s gathering of wealth described in 1 Kings 10:14:



> Now the weight of gold that came to Solomon in one year was six hundred threescore and six talents of gold



As far as I can tell, that is the only other place in Scripture that mentions this particular number. I can’t help but think that John assumed that his readers were familiar with the OT and would recognize that specific number. I note that the LXX renders the number exactly the same as the Greek in Revelation.

But, beyond that, I can’t make much of it. I wonder if anybody here has run across a discussion of this possible relationship.


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## Osage Bluestem (May 5, 2011)

T.A.G. said:


> Do you believe there is any correlation between the two?


 
No.


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## Peairtach (May 5, 2011)

Yes, as far as I am aware, and taking everything with a pinch of salt because Revelation is a difficult book, and I don't think the Lord wants or wanted his people to chart history before it happens, which is why He made Revelation a difficult book.

Of course people imposing human constructs on it like dispensational premillennialism make it more difficult than it needs to be.

Of course the Beast is still with us although Nero - the quintessential representative of the Beast in the First century - is gone.


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## Grillsy (May 5, 2011)

VictorBravo said:


> I guess I’m missing your point. The Greek you posted had “hex” (Greek for “six") as a prefix twice, and then it was followed by a “hex.” I do think a reader would notice three “hexes” in a phrase. Now, what they make of it is indeed a matter of presupposition.



Raymond, the only point I was trying to make it is that number has a value instead of being three individual sixes. It is 666 (six hundred sixty six) not 6-6-6. Sometimes when people see three sixes it tends to bring about some culturally influenced reaction. For example, not long ago, my total at a restaurant came to $6.66 the cashier insisted I pay $6.65 because she thought the price was evil. So I am just trying to bring a proper understanding that the number is not merely or necessarily three sixes (6-6-6) a row. Think about the people worried about June 6, 2006. I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.


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## Marrow Man (May 5, 2011)

As a former math teacher, Willie's point is solid. The number in Revelation is indeed six hundred sixty-six, not six six six. The place of the 6's has value in a numerical system. In the Greek, it reads εξακοσιοι εξηκοντα εξ -- literally, "six hundred sixty six."


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## Marrow Man (May 5, 2011)

This article explains:



> In both ancient Greek and Hebrew, letters also represented numerals (as they do in Latin), their values assigned according to the order of the alphabet, alpha and aelph, for example, having the numerical value of 1. By adding these values, words could be represented as the sum of their numbers. This literation of numbers and numeration of letters was known as isopsephism by the Greeks and gematria by the Jews (which, in cabalistic practice, has been used to interpret Hebrew scripture). If the Greek spelling of Nero Caesar (Neron Kaisar) is transliterated into Hebrew (nrwn qsr), the numerical equivalent is 666.
> 
> What is curious, however, is not so much that 666 can be decoded to signify Nero but that the name of the emperor is encoded in this particular number, especially since it could have been represented more readily in other ways. If "Nero" is retained in Greek, for example, the numeration would be 955 or, if "Neron," 1005; in Hebrew, then 256 or 306. It only is when the words are transliterated into Hebrew that the numeration adds up to 666 (nrwn qsr, 50 + 200 + 6 + 50 + 100 + 60 + 200). Even so, this is an alternate spelling, a letter in "Neron" being transliterated (nrwn instead of nrw) but not in "Caesar" (qsr instead of qysr), although these forms do appear in both the Talmud and a contemporary Aramaic scroll from Qumran. It is intriguing, therefore, that 666 encodes the name of Nero in Hebrew when Revelation, itself, was written in Greek.
> 
> ...


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## VictorBravo (May 5, 2011)

I will admit dullness, but I thought everyone knew that 666 is six hundred sixty and six. That's admitted by the title of the thread. So I wasn't getting the importance of Willie's point. I don't see how it denies Hendricksen's comment (even though I don't really agree with Hendricksen either).

What I'm getting at is it doesn't matter if one uses numerals or words, "hex" is emphasized three times in a row--similar to Jesus' "seventy times seven." It isn't necessarily some formula, but rather makes a point poetically through emphasis. So, I think Hendricksen could grant that the words were spelled out (I'm sure he knew that) and still try to make his point of emphasized imperfection.

But, I think it is a side issue anyway. I do think the numerology angle on Nero's name is a stretch.


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## Marrow Man (May 5, 2011)

There are certainly folks who look at the number as 3 sixes instead a single number (666). I remember being told once that Ronald Wilson Reagan had to be the antichrist because he had 6 letters in each of his three names (plus he had a head wound from which he recovered, but I digress). Obviously that sort of reasoning has nothing to do with place values of the sixes.

Whether one buys into the Nero Ceasar = 666, it apparently was a legitimate way in the first century to convert names into numbers. Of course, I believe I've also read that with a little creativity one can do the same with other famous names (e.g., Martin Luther).


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## VictorBravo (May 5, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Whether one buys into the Nero Ceasar = 666, it apparently was a legitimate way in the first century to convert names into numbers. Of course, I believe I've also read that with a little creativity one can do the same with other famous names (e.g., Martin Luther).


 
Well, if we go with my commonly used name: "Vic," I can demonstrate it is perfection.

V=22 I=9 C=3

22+9+3= 34

3+4=7 Seven is the number of perfection. 

Of course, if I use "Victor," I end up with the evil 6. . . .


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## Marrow Man (May 5, 2011)

VictorBravo said:


> Of course, if I use "Victor," I end up with the evil 6. . . .



Which gives an all new meaning to "Victor Victor Victor"!!!


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## Andres (May 5, 2011)

Grillsy said:


> For example, not long ago, my total at a restaurant came to $6.66 the cashier insisted I pay $6.65 because she thought the price was evil. So I am just trying to bring a proper understanding that the number is not merely or necessarily three sixes (6-6-6) a row.



Ahh... but if you had gone with a large group to a very expensive restaurant and then offered to treat everyone, you might have been stuck with a bill totaling $666.00. (Six hundred and sixty-six dollars) Then you would have really been in trouble!


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## CDM (May 6, 2011)

*It's called Revelation and not Obfuscation for a reason...*

The following excerpts are taken from _The Message from Patmos_, by David S. Clark.



> II. To whom was the book written.
> 
> It is formally addressed to the seven churches of Asia
> Minor. Rev. 1:4 "John to the seven churches which are
> ...



[...]



> Christ addresses these seven churches. He says, 1:11,
> "What thou seest, write in a book, and send it unto the
> seven churches which are in Asia." And again, XXn:16,
> "I, Jesus have sent mine angel, or messenger, to testify
> ...



Concerning 666:



> Vs. 16,17. And he put a mark in the hand or fore-
> heads of men so that no man could buy or sell unless he
> had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of
> his name. This was to boycott or ostracise the Christians,
> ...



The Message from Patmos is a must read at 140 pages. Amazon has it for around $16 if you want it in paperback.


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## J. Dean (May 6, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> There are certainly folks who look at the number as 3 sixes instead a single number (666). I remember being told once that Ronald Wilson Reagan had to be the antichrist because he had 6 letters in each of his three names (plus he had a head wound from which he recovered, but I digress). Obviously that sort of reasoning has nothing to do with place values of the sixes.
> 
> Whether one buys into the Nero Ceasar = 666, it apparently was a legitimate way in the first century to convert names into numbers. Of course, I believe I've also read that with a little creativity one can do the same with other famous names (e.g., Martin Luther).


 
I always thought the antichrist was Barry Manilow myself


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