# Books on Independency & Congregationalism



## Mayflower (Aug 14, 2007)

I know that the most of the board hold to a presbyterian church goverment.

Does anyone recommends good study books written concerning : Independency & Congregationalism.

I have already : John Cotton, Thomas Goodwin and Owen, but iam looking for dissertations or study books about Independency & Congregationalism church goverement. So no anti, but in support of Independency & Congregationalism books.


----------



## PastorFaulk (Aug 14, 2007)

I have realy enjoyed "Who Runs the Church" it is apart of the Counterpoints series put out by Zondervan(is Zondervan a bad word on the PB). The format of the series debates the pros and cons of the major view points. I often find that I learn more about each author's view by their responses to the other views than a straightforward article.


----------



## Mayflower (Aug 14, 2007)

PastorFaulk said:


> I have realy enjoyed "Who Runs the Church" it is apart of the Counterpoints series put out by Zondervan(is Zondervan a bad word on the PB). The format of the series debates the pros and cons of the major view points. I often find that I learn more about each author's view by their responses to the other views than a straightforward article.



Dear Pastor Faulk,

Thanks alot, i have this book in my library and esspecially the view of Samuel Waldron was very helpfull.


----------



## Scott (Aug 14, 2007)

I think Presbyterian Church government is correct and biblical. However, The Cambridge Platform is the best work I have seen in support of congregtionalism.


----------



## AV1611 (Aug 14, 2007)

Mayflower said:


> I know that the most of the board hold to a presbyterian church goverment.
> 
> Does anyone recommends good study books written concerning : Independency & Congregationalism.
> 
> I have already : John Cotton, Thomas Goodwin and Owen, but iam looking for dissertations or study books about Independency & Congregationalism church goverement. So no anti, but in support of Independency & Congregationalism books.



You may be interested to know that within the Dutch Reformed churches there are differing view points on this. Hoeksema seems to be almost advocating independency in his _Reformed Dogmatics_.

John Owen whilst an advocate of independency was no more than a weak presbyterian.


----------



## Coram Deo (Aug 14, 2007)

John Owens on his death bed renounced Independency after a lifetime of defending it vigorously and said the Scottish Presbyterian Government was the most closest to biblical and one he would join if he lived longer...





AV1611 said:


> Mayflower said:
> 
> 
> > I know that the most of the board hold to a presbyterian church goverment.
> ...


----------



## Dieter Schneider (Aug 14, 2007)

thunaer said:


> John Owens on his death bed renounced Independency after a lifetime of defending it vigorously and said the Scottish Presbyterian Government was the most closest to biblical and one he would join if he lived longer...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Can you document this please.


----------



## Mayflower (Aug 14, 2007)

thunaer said:


> John Owens on his death bed renounced Independency after a lifetime of defending it vigorously and said the Scottish Presbyterian Government was the most closest to biblical and one he would join if he lived longer...



Probely you got this from Nigel Lee on Owen RE-PRESBYTERI-ANIZED, i heard from some convince presbyterian pastor and scholars (who read and studied Owen RE-PRESBYTERI-ANIZED) that in their view this a very weak work of Nigel Lee. Even through they are are convince presbyterians (and studied church history and esspecially Owen), for them it was clear that Owen was a independed.


----------



## Coram Deo (Aug 14, 2007)

Owen himself (Works XVI:2) told several men that he could readily join with Presbytery the way it was exercised in Scotland. Moreover, historian Wodrow in his own [1716] Analecta (1842 ed. 2:263 & 2:309) records:

"Blackwell tells...he had this account of Owen at his death from persons who were with him... that he expressed himself very much in favour of Presbyterian Government, and said he was persuaded that Presbytery was the way to God....

"Redpath told me...he visited Dr. Owen on his deathbed, and Presbytery and Episcopacy came to be discoursed of.... The Doctor said how he had seen his mistake as to the Independent way, and declared to him a day or two before his death that after his utmost search into the Scriptures and antiquity, he was now satisfied that Presbytery was the way Christ had appointed in His New Testament Church."


Owen died in 1683. One of his most important tracts, The True Nature of a Gospel Church and its Government, was published posthumously six years later in 1689. Rightly, the later congregationalistic editor W.H. Goold admitted in his own 'Prefatory Note' thereto (VXI:2) that because "of some statements in the following treatise...it has been gravely argued that the author returned to the Presbyterianism of his early days before he died." Those statements are found especially in Owen's chapter on 'the Communion of Churches.'




Dieter Schneider said:


> thunaer said:
> 
> 
> > John Owens on his death bed renounced Independency after a lifetime of defending it vigorously and said the Scottish Presbyterian Government was the most closest to biblical and one he would join if he lived longer...
> ...


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 14, 2007)

Similar to the John Owen story is the account of Jonathan Edwards. 

Additional pro/con resources on Independency can be found this thread, here, and here. Daniel Cawdrey's response to John Owen on the subject is found here.


----------



## elnwood (Aug 14, 2007)

Mark Dever's pamphlet "A Display of God's Glory: Basics of Church Structure Deacons, Elders, Congregationalism & Membership" is an excellent defense of congregational church government. It is available for download.

https://secure2.convio.net/ccnmm/si...EW_PRODUCT=true&product_id=1003&store_id=1301


----------



## Mayflower (Aug 17, 2007)

thunaer said:


> "Redpath told me...he visited Dr. Owen on his deathbed, and Presbytery and Episcopacy came to be discoursed of.... The Doctor said how he had seen his mistake as to the Independent way, and declared to him a day or two before his death that after his utmost search into the Scriptures and antiquity, he was now satisfied that Presbytery was the way Christ had appointed in His New Testament Church."



See : http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php?t=16318


----------



## KMK (Aug 17, 2007)

Aahhh... Nothing like the 'death-bed recantation'! However true it may be in this case, these supposed changes of heart just before death in the presence of a special few are not really helpful. They don't really prove anything since we weren't there. I especially like the one that Chilton supposedly made when he converted to hyper-preterism.


----------

