# Friendship Evangelism



## Der Pilger

Hello all,

I'm curious as to everyone's take on friendship evangelism. By that I am referring to the deliberate formation of friendships with unbelievers with the conscious goal of sharing the gospel at some point. I've had problems with it for various reasons but thought I would get others' insights as well.

The difficulties I have with the concept are as follows:

1. First off, it seems that the Bible has nothing to say about it.

2. It seems insincere and, therefore, contrary to love of one's neighbor to establish a relationship with an ulterior motive. If there were no intention to share the gospel with the "friend" at some point, would the relationship even exist?

3. It seems spiritually risky for the believer because he/she might end up being influenced negatively. "Do not be deceived: 'Bad company ruins good morals.' " (1 Corinthians 15:33, ESV)

4. It seems contrary to the Great Commission in that it imposes a severe limit on the number of people to whom the gospel is proclaimed. Genuine relationships take time to build, so one has to wonder how many such people could be reached with the gospel as opposed to a widespread outreach to strangers.

5. It might actually make evangelism harder. The closer we get to someone, the more we will naturally want to preserve the relationship. This could conceivably lead us to avoid offending the close friend with the gospel.

DP


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## Tim

I eagerly await the discussion to come.

I'll just give two thoughts:

1. There is a word in the Bible that is translated 'hospitality' (and we are to be so). It comes from _xeno_ and _philia_, which means 'loving strangers'. God loved us when we were strangers to Him. Accordingly, our friendship and hospitality to unbelievers is a picture of the Gospel itself.

2. On the other hand, I have sometimes wondered if 'friendship evangelism' is actually a 'bait and switch' in which there is some veiling of the true motive of the friendship. The Bible probably has an answer for this notion, but it still seems like there is some covert aspect. I would like to know how we should address this troubling notion.


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## Der Pilger

Tim said:


> 1. There is a word in the Bible that is translated 'hospitality' (and we are to be so). It comes from _xeno_ and _philia_, which means 'loving strangers'. God loved us when we were strangers to Him. Accordingly, our friendship and hospitality to unbelievers is a picture of the Gospel itself.



Interesting thought. Hospitality and treating strangers with kindness shouldn't be taken lightly, so your point is a good one. Still...



> 2. On the other hand, I have sometimes wondered if 'friendship evangelism' is actually a 'bait and switch' in which there is some veiling of the true motive of the friendship. The Bible probably has an answer for this notion, but it still seems like there is some covert aspect. I would like to know how we should address this troubling notion.



Bingo. That's what troubles me, too. Off the top of my head, I'd say the Bible--particularly the commandments--has two answers for this:

1. Love your neighbor as yourself. 
2. You shall not bear false witness.

As Paul wrote, "Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling of the law." (1 Cor. 13:10, ESV) Manipulating our neighbors by pursuing an insincere friendship is nothing less than dishonesty and deception, which are violations of the command not to bear false witness. Deceiving one's neighbor is a failure to love them.


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## Zenas

This brings to mind a legal question we recently heard the 1Ls argue in moot court and I think the question is relevant here as it was there; do you mean "a purpose", the "primary purpose", or the "sole purpose"? 

I establish friendships with nonbelievers all the time and one purpose is to give them the gospel. I have other purposes, such as I find them fun to be around, funny, nice folks, etc., etc. My best friend from first year is an ultra-liberal atheist and we pat each other on the shoulder every day we see each other. Through our friendship he has come to know where I stand and see how I behave and I hope seeds have been planted. 

I can see the argument where the friendship is for the "sole" or "primary" purpose, that the friendship seems insincere. Arguably, however, it is the most sincere because they are concerned about the most important thing, their status before God. 

Just my two cents.


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## Der Pilger

Zenas said:


> This brings to mind a legal question we recently heard the 1Ls argue in moot court and I think the question is relevant here as it was there; do you mean "a purpose", the "primary purpose", or the "sole purpose"?



Good point. Ultimately that is up to each person pursuing friendship evangelism to answer on his or her own. For some people the *only* purpose might be to share the gospel; for others it might be the *primary* purpose, with secondary purposes of companionship, similar interests, etc., following in close behind. 

DP


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## creformed01

Hi, 
I was raised LDS and we practiced friendship evangelism. The problem was once the person was "IN" the friendship stopped, and the person was left on their own. I think this also can happen in orthodox Christian Churchs if we are not careful. evangelism should not stop when the person becomes a member we should ALWAYS be there for them and not leave them in the cold.


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## re4med

creformed01 --I am not a moderator here but you are a friend of mine. You might want to read this link:

The PuritanBoard - Signature/Profile Reqts


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## Der Pilger

creformed01 said:


> Hi,
> I was raised LDS and we practiced friendship evangelism. The problem was once the person was "IN" the friendship stopped, and the person was left on their own. I think this also can happen in orthodox Christian Churchs if we are not careful. evangelism should not stop when the person becomes a member we should ALWAYS be there for them and not leave them in the cold.



Interesting. I've seen a similar problem in the way churches have treated me in the past. Although it was not in the context of evangelism since I was already a believer, the problem is similar. When I was a new visitor, people were usually friendly, upbeat, shaking my hand, and taking an interest in me. But once I started making it obvious that I was a regular attender and wasn't going anywhere, the sunny dispositions ceased and I was really just another person in the church.

However, if I suddenly stopped showing up for services or other activities, strangely enough people would resume their interest in me.

I wonder if friendship evangelism ends up being something just as bad: "Fake it till you make it."

Is that love?


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## Repre5entYHWH

i don't think friendship evangelism lasts too long until you don't have any more friends... the way worked out for me is i lost most my friends and the friends i still have are tired of that subject. 

so now it's just strangers but i still have a few family members that i'm terrified of talking to...


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## creformed01

Thanks Bill i was not aware of the format I changed it.


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## CharlieJ

If friendship is doing good to another person, then witnessing is the truest form of friendship. If you are living a joyful, Spirit-filled Christian life, then God will bring people across your path whom you will attract toward God. 

When I was 12, God gave me the opportunity to lead my next-door-neighbor to Christ. We played basketball and baseball and video games and sometimes I would talk to him about the Bible. One day God brought it all together.

Twice during college, members of my church came to me distressed over the state of their souls. One of those determined that he was not saved (didn't believe in resurrection) and came to believe on Christ. We were just friends who hung out and had classes and went to church together. The other determined that she was, in fact, a Christian but had allowed rebellion to rob her of her joy and assurance. Today, she's serving the Lord. 

Now, I'm praying for a man I work with. He's smart, funny, fun, and has no concept of religion much less spirituality. I don't know what God will do, but we talk about politics and economics and ethics, and all of those things are influenced by theology, so I talk about God and Christ and the Bible.

I don't think anyone should be ashamed of wanting other people to hear the gospel! I also think that friendships cannot be conditioned upon how the other person responds, unless that person is trying to pull you away from your faith into wickedness. I also don't think that "friendship evangelism" is the only form of evangelism.


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## Timothy William

creformed01 said:


> Hi,
> I was raised LDS and we practiced friendship evangelism. The problem was once the person was "IN" the friendship stopped, and the person was left on their own. I think this also can happen in orthodox Christian Churches if we are not careful. evangelism should not stop when the person becomes a member we should ALWAYS be there for them and not leave them in the cold.



My question regarding friendship evangelism is, what happens if the friend doesn't respond to the Gospel? If they reply, politely but definitely, "no thanks, not interested, but we can keep being friends"? If at this point you either drop them as a friend or keep trying to argue them into believing, perhaps your friendship was just a bait and switch. If it was genuine, you would be inclined to stay friends with them. If you don't think you'd be open to staying friends if they shunned the gospel, perhaps friendship evangelism is not the way to go.

We've all had friends use us for one reason or another - those who try to get us to join their political cause or party (or church faction), those trying to sell us stuff, or guys who ask a girl on a date and drop her as a friend if she says no (or girls who do it to guys). Inevitably, even real friendships end, but no one likes to find out that someone they thought was a friend was just playing them for something all along. And it is a complaint that sometimes gets made about Christians, that we have fake smiles and pretend to be nice until they shun our evangelism.


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## Der Pilger

Timothy William said:


> My question regarding friendship evangelism is, what happens if the friend doesn't respond to the Gospel? If they reply, politely but definitely, "no thanks, not interested, but we can keep being friends"? If at this point you either drop them as a friend or keep trying to argue them into believing, perhaps your friendship was just a bait and switch. If it was genuine, you would be inclined to stay friends with them. If you don't think you'd be open to staying friends if they shunned the gospel, perhaps friendship evangelism is not the way to go.



I think that's one good self-test to do if one is planning to engage in friendship evangelism. If you're not willing to go all the way with the friendship through thick and thin, how can it possibly be genuine?

-----Added 4/9/2009 at 12:56:12 EST-----



CharlieJ said:


> If friendship is doing good to another person, then witnessing is the truest form of friendship.



But isn't friendship more than just doing good to another person? Occasionally I bake cookies and bring them in to work to share with others in my office, but I don't have a friendship with any of them. Our relationship is strictly professional. Friendship, however, involves something much deeper and more intimate.

DP


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## creformed01

I do not think we can talk people into being a believer, for anything we are talked into we can be talked out of.
But when the Holy Spirit gives that person the inner witness, that no one can take away.
what do we do with the person who does not respond immediately to the message--Pray hard that the Holy Spirit brings them to Christ and leave the results to God.
we should be there for them both before and after they are converted and come to Christ. 
Building lasting relationships with them by simply being there and helping them if you can. Its never our job to condemn them or convict them--we are not The Holy Spirit.


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## Kim G

Maybe I'm missing the point, but . . . how else do you evangelize?

Do you scatter tracts on the sidewalk? Preach in the mall? Play sappy Christian music at work and hope your co-workers ask you questions about it?

Isn't most evangelism relational? My friends, coworkers, people I meet at the grocery store, all are opportunities for witnessing. I don't make friends just to witness to people. But every friend that I make I will witness to because I can't help it. The Lord is my life, and that will show in the choices that I make around my friends, in my spoken testimony of what the Lord is teaching me, etc.


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## puritanpilgrim

I have it helpful to have some contact with people in sharing the gospel. I wouldn't call it "friendship," but there is a goal in trying interact with people with the intention of sharing the gospel. I've been doing this for a few years, and I have had very little success "rolling up," on people in the suburbs. In street evangelism it can be useful, and in college campuses it can work. But walking through a neighborhood knocking on doors, or randomly walking up to people in shopping centers or coffee houses is not very effective cold. And by not effective, I mean you don't get a chance to even share the gospel. If I can atleast share the gospel, I consider it successful. Really, the rest is in God's hands. But, it is very discouraging when you can't even get that opportunity. People are not very trusting nowadays. I used to run a coffee house since that was an environment which facilitated conversation, I would walk around and share the gospel with new comers. Our society is very closed, and not always open to have conversations of any kind of depth with strangers. There is not always a Mars hill to walk up upon and talk. After doing this for seven years I have found the middle class to be the most difficult people to share the gospel with. The biggest difficultly is getting to the point where you have an opportunity to share the gospel. College campuses, trailer parks, ghettos, red light districts, are much easier to reach. Middle class, everyone stays in their house playing video games.


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## nicnap

Kim G said:


> Do you scatter tracts on the sidewalk? Preach in the mall? Play sappy Christian music at work and hope your co-workers ask you questions about it?



 Is that His radio you are listening to? It is "family friendly" radio.


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## puritanpilgrim

> Maybe I'm missing the point, but . . . how else do you evangelize?
> 
> Do you scatter tracts on the sidewalk? Preach in the mall? Play sappy Christian music at work and hope your co-workers ask you questions about it?
> 
> Isn't most evangelism relational? My friends, coworkers, people I meet at the grocery store, all are opportunities for witnessing. I don't make friends just to witness to people. But every friend that I make I will witness to because I can't help it. The Lord is my life, and that will show in the choices that I make around my friends, in my spoken testimony of what the Lord is teaching me, etc.



This is a really good point. I think you are getting at the heart of the issue. I would encourge people to answer with real ways they evangelize. Theory is nice, but I hear way too much theory on evangelism. I'm interested in what everyone has done, or is doing.


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## Der Pilger

Kim G said:


> Maybe I'm missing the point, but . . . how else do you evangelize?



There are plenty of ways to witness besides trying to develop a friendship as a means to an end. My preferred method is to draw people to come to a table to take a quiz about the gospel. We do this in public every Sunday afternoon.



> Isn't most evangelism relational?



It is? I guess that depends on one's definition of "relational." I thought it was primarily a matter of announcing the good news, which *could* be relational but not necessarily.

Is the verbal announcement of the good news step 1 of evangelism or step 2?

-----Added 4/9/2009 at 02:02:20 EST-----



puritanpilgrim said:


> But walking through a neighborhood knocking on doors, or randomly walking up to people in shopping centers or coffee houses is not very effective cold. And by not effective, I mean you don't get a chance to even share the gospel. If I can atleast share the gospel, I consider it successful. Really, the rest is in God's hands.



You're right about the rest being in God's hands, but in all actuality the entire process is in God's hands--the opportunity to share as well as its results. 

Speaking of success, my criteria for success are different. I consider outreach to be successful if two things have been accomplished: 1) God has been glorified, and 2) I have been faithful to proclaim the message.



> But, it is very discouraging when you can't even get that opportunity. People are not very trusting nowadays. I used to run a coffee house since that was an environment which facilitated conversation, I would walk around and share the gospel with new comers. Our society is very closed, and not always open to have conversations of any kind of depth with strangers.



True, but not always. I've been doing table/sign/quiz evangelism for about two years now in public, and my ministry coworkers and I have had numerous gospel conversations. There are slow days and busy days. The key is to persevere and be faithful.



> There is not always a Mars hill to walk up upon and talk.



Sorry, my experience says different.


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## puritanpilgrim

> True, but not always. I've been doing table/sign/quiz evangelism for about two years now in public, and my ministry coworkers and I have had numerous gospel conversations. There are slow days and busy days. The key is to persevere and be faithful.



I've done this before too. But, this goes back to the bait and switch. Someone walks up thinking their taking a quiz and then they are given the gospel. I've done this on college campus. You are creating some type of situation where-by the gospel can be shared. That is great. There is somewhat of an art in doing this. We have no evidence Paul or anyone else in the Bible set up a quiz table. But, it has been shown to be effective in some parts of this county. The gospel is the same. However the way you go about getting to the gospel may change from society to society.


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## Kim G

Der Pilger said:


> I've been doing table/sign/quiz evangelism for about two years now in public, and my ministry coworkers and I have had numerous gospel conversations.


I hope you disciple all these people, get them into a good church, and continue to follow up with these children in the faith.


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## Der Pilger

puritanpilgrim said:


> True, but not always. I've been doing table/sign/quiz evangelism for about two years now in public, and my ministry coworkers and I have had numerous gospel conversations. There are slow days and busy days. The key is to persevere and be faithful.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I've done this before too. But, this goes back to the bait and switch. Someone walks up thinking their taking a quiz and then they are given the gospel.
Click to expand...


It's not actually a bait and switch because we really do give them a quiz.



> I've done this on college campus. You are creating some type of situation where-by the gospel can be shared. That is great. There is somewhat of an art in doing this. We have no evidence Paul or anyone else in the Bible set up a quiz table.



We don't need to have that evidence. The principle behind it is biblical: taking the gospel into public and proclaiming the good news.



> But, it has been shown to be effective in some parts of this county.



How do you measure the effectiveness of a particular method? by its visible results? If so, does God always define success as visible results?

-----Added 4/9/2009 at 03:12:13 EST-----



Kim G said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> I've been doing table/sign/quiz evangelism for about two years now in public, and my ministry coworkers and I have had numerous gospel conversations.
> 
> 
> 
> I hope you disciple all these people, get them into a good church, and continue to follow up with these children in the faith.
Click to expand...


An excellent point. Although it would be very premature to make the judgment that they are "children in the faith," we realize that discipleship, just as much as proclaiming the gospel, is part of the Great Commission, so we do take steps to follow up with them. That is where the results, however, fall into God's hands because we can't force people to meet with us after they hear the gospel. We do try to connect with them, though.

DP


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## DonP

Interesting verses to the point 

James 4:4 Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God. NKJV

Matt 11:19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners! NKJV

Luke 10:36 So which of these three do you think was neighbor to him who fell among the thieves?" 
37 And he said, "He who showed mercy on him."
Then Jesus said to him, "Go and do likewise." NKJV

1 Cor 5:9 I wrote to you in my epistle *not to keep company* with sexually immoral people. 10 Yet* I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world.* 11 But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner — not even to eat with such a person. NKJV

I think we need to protect our children from the world but as adults I think the most loving thing we can do is to seek to get a hearing from someone for the hope within us. 
So we are to be hospitable, neighborly, and have company with those in the world, and of course with some discretion, though Jesus presumably took some of His disciples to a dinner with sinners. 
But He went to not just become part of their world, but clearly to share with them His message. 
As long as we are not tempted to compromise and it is out of love to God and man, I see no reason not to have some level of friendship with people. 

I like what our lawyer Zenas said about mixed intentions and I find myself almost always having mixed intentions to some extent and am sure that I never now all of my intentions absolutely. 

I think we will never be as close a friend to a non-christian as to our brothers and sisters, nor should we marry a non-believer, but certainly we are not to fear them as if they could get us dirty. 
Dirty is from within us, not from them who are without. 
Matt 15:11 Not what goes into the mouth defiles a man; but what comes out of the mouth, this defiles a man." NKJV

2 Cor 7:1 O Corinthians! We have spoken openly to you, our heart is wide open. 12 You are not restricted by us, but you are restricted by your own affections. 13 Now in return for the same(I speak as to children), you also be open. 
14 Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And *what communion has light with darkness? 15 And what accord has Christ with Belial? Or what part has a believer with an unbeliever?* 16 And what agreement has the temple of God with idols? For you are the temple of the living God. As God has said:
"I will dwell in them And walk among them.I will be their God,And they shall be My people." 
17 Therefore *"Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord.Do not touch what is unclean,And I will receive you."* 18'I will be a Father to you,And you shall be My sons and daughters,Says the LORD Almighty." 
7:1 Therefore, having these promises, beloved, *let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit*, perfecting holiness in the fear of God. NKJV

Remembering this cleansing is of the heart and the outward illustration is used as a type or figure of the internal else it would seem to contradict the other passages. 

So the only question is, would it be wrong if our ONLY motive for friendship was to convert them. 
Then I would say, *we are not to have this as our only motive for loving the people of the world. *
We are to truly show kindness to them, and see our oneness with them were it not for the grace of God. 
I am sure any of us who were made aware of Christ by a friend would not feel bad would that have been their primary motive

It certainly should be a primary interest for anyone we love to see them hear the gospel.


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## Rich Koster

I think the key to being a good witness to the Gospel is how we live amongst the world. Our actions should not contradict our identity in Christ. Our lives and relationships should provoke thought and question. Then we can respond with the truth about sin and it's Propitiator and leave the results to God. Also, yes I agree that we should inform our little ones and protect them from wolves and warn them about pigs.


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## calgal

creformed01 said:


> Hi,
> I was raised LDS and we practiced friendship evangelism. The problem was once the person was "IN" the friendship stopped, and the person was left on their own. I think this also can happen in orthodox Christian Churchs if we are not careful. evangelism should not stop when the person becomes a member we should ALWAYS be there for them and not leave them in the cold.



As an exmo who got duped this way, and friendshipping someone to get them in church is a pet peeve of mine. It is one thing to welcome someone in and be nice but not a "BFFF" and another to create the illusion of a friendship then dump them when they are "in." The latter in my opinion is sin. I have friends who are living lifestyles I do not agree with but they are my friends (and I am theirs) in spite of their rejection of Christ (pagans, gays and atheists). I pray for them and welcome the chance to share Christ as appropriate.


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## charliejunfan

For me I have had success(by the power of the Holy Spirit) in "friendship" evangelism, only for me the friendships started with the gospel and continued in discipleship, if you preach the gospel and it offends, guess what, that is one of the purposes of the gospel.
I think we start talking about absolute authority/ethics/presuppositionalism and the gospel and it will either result in a discipleship or an offended stranger, either way, as long as you were convicted and sincerely desired to see them saved, then you will have done nothing wrong  

My attempts at preaching the gospel to new aquaintances(I don't do absolute strangers usually, unless I think that I am super convicted to) has resulted in 3 discipleships(2 guys were already saved but needed guidance) and 3 potentials.

I say whenever you think/feel you should preach the gospel, you should, this is conviction, and don't worry about it being all charismatical or anything like that, it is the Holy Spirit's leading.


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## Der Pilger

charliejunfan said:


> For me I have had success(by the power of the Holy Spirit) in "friendship" evangelism, only for me the friendships started with the gospel and continued in discipleship, if you preach the gospel and it offends, guess what, that is one of the purposes of the gospel.





That's the stance I take on it. The friendship/relationship should be the result of the evangelism, not the other way around. The gospel needs to be in the front seat driving the relationship car, to use a crude metaphor. I cannot believe that it would ever be God's will that we relegate the gospel to the back seat. If we never get to the friendship phase because people are offended by the gospel, so be it. Sharing the message verbally should be step 1, not step 2.

DP


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## Idelette

This is a great topic! I've often thought about this issue as well.....

I would agree with many of the people above....I've never "befriended" someone with the sole purpose of evangelism in mind. I don't think its very genuine or loving at all....especially if that relationship ends or is changed after the person becomes a believer! However, I have been mindful to use _EVERY_ relationship around me as an opportunity to glorify God in my life and to share the gospel! In that sense, my _PRIMARY_ purpose is to share Christ in every relationship......whether a person is an unbeliever or even a believer that is in need of encouragement! We are to reach out to others, and to show love and hospitality. 

I don't think that God is limited to our relationships, He uses all things to draw men unto Himself.......But, He does place us in our schools and jobs, and circumstances, even struggles so that we might be a testimony to the world of His grace and strength in our lives! He places us in people's lives so that we would pray for them and be a light in their lives. In that sense, I think "friendship" evangelism is often used by the Lord! (even though I'm not so fond of the term). I think people watch us, and they take notice that we are in fact different than the world....how we react to trials, how we respond when we are asked to lie by our employer, how we react when we lose a loved one or find out that we have cancer..... I think He often uses relationships to demonstrate the work that He has done in our lives, and the peace that comes from it! And those are great opportunities for the gospel!

I love this verse:

"But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumph in Christ, and manifests through us the sweet aroma of the knowledge of Him in every place. For we are a fragrance of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing; to the one an aroma from death to death, to the other an aroma from life to life. And who is adequate for these things?" - 2 Corin 2: 14-16


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## Pergamum

Like most good concepts, loving people and valuing them as people, has devolved into the phrase "friendship evangelism" which appears like your are head-hunting for potential converts to "butter-up" with the ol' Bait and Switch Evangelism approach. Now, many churches send out missionaries whose MAIN strategy is hanging out in coffee shops to try to make a friend. 

The Gospel does spread relationally, and family and friends act as "bridges of God" by which the Gospel spreads. However, a much better approach than looking for new friends who will feel that you are being insincere, is to love and bless your existing network of friends and strive to truly enlarge that and to truly make relationships for sake of making relationships, not as an underhanded ploy to foist your wares on them like a cheap salesman.


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## Tripel

Der Pilger said:


> 4. It seems contrary to the Great Commission in that it imposes a severe limit on the number of people to whom the gospel is proclaimed. Genuine relationships take time to build, so one has to wonder how many such people could be reached with the gospel as opposed to a widespread outreach to strangers.



I disagree with this. The Great Commission is not to go witness to as many people as you can. It is to make disciples. 

Here is an interesting explanation with numbers:

**If 1,000 people were converted every day, it would take 15,000 years for the whole world to be reached (that is assuming a static population).

**If a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1, and then spur on his disciple to do the same while starting a new one year discipleship with another person...and so on and so on, it would take 37 years to reach the whole world.


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## CharlieJ

Pergamum said:


> The Gospel does spread relationally, and family and friends act as "bridges of God" by which the Gospel spreads. However, a much better approach than looking for new friends who will feel that you are being insincere, is to love and bless your existing network of friends and strive to truly enlarge that and to truly make relationships for sake of making relationships, not as an underhanded ploy to foist your wares on them like a cheap salesman.



Pergy, this is a big problem in Greenville. My sister works at Bob Jones University, plays in a "Christian" volleyball league, and goes to Heritage Bible Church. In a typical week, she might not see a single person who is not a professing Christian. How should she seek to evangelize?


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## A guy

Tripel said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. It seems contrary to the Great Commission in that it imposes a severe limit on the number of people to whom the gospel is proclaimed. Genuine relationships take time to build, so one has to wonder how many such people could be reached with the gospel as opposed to a widespread outreach to strangers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this. The Great Commission is not to go witness to as many people as you can. It is to make disciples.
> 
> QUOTE]
> 
> Tripel,
> 
> How do you interpret the making of disciples?
Click to expand...


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## Tripel

A guy said:


> How do you interpret the making of disciples?



I think it has a broad meaning. There is definitely an evangelistic implication in that we are to be God's instruments in bringing people to Christ. But I think the most important aspect is that we are to be pouring our lives into others, training them in the Scriptures, and sending them into the world to do likewise. We see Jesus doing this with his 12, and we see Paul doing this with Timothy.


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## Der Pilger

Tripel said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 4. It seems contrary to the Great Commission in that it imposes a severe limit on the number of people to whom the gospel is proclaimed. Genuine relationships take time to build, so one has to wonder how many such people could be reached with the gospel as opposed to a widespread outreach to strangers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I disagree with this. The Great Commission is not to go witness to as many people as you can. It is to make disciples.
Click to expand...


Yes, and to go into ALL the world. Who are we to target a subset of humanity for the gospel when we know full well that we could bring the gospel to more? Is that what Jesus had in mind?



> Here is an interesting explanation with numbers:
> 
> **If 1,000 people were converted every day, it would take 15,000 years for the whole world to be reached (that is assuming a static population).
> 
> **If a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1, and then spur on his disciple to do the same while starting a new one year discipleship with another person...and so on and so on, it would take 37 years to reach the whole world.



I'd agree with this if Jesus actually told his disciples, "Go and disciple one person and then instruct that one person to disciple one more." Instead he said, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." Hardly "each one reach one," that.


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## Tripel

Der Pilger said:


> Yes, and to go into ALL the world. Who are we to target a subset of humanity for the gospel when we know full well that we could bring the gospel to more? Is that what Jesus had in mind?



I didn't say that we were supposed to limit the gospel to anyone. Certainly we are to take the gospel message into all the world, but that is not on an individual basis. In other words, I am not supposed to go to one country and evangelize on Tuesday and then go to a different country on Wednesday. We, as the church, are to reach the whole world. 

But we also need to realize where our time is best spent. I think Scripture suggests that our time is best spent in establishing relationships and training our brothers and sisters in the faith. The command in the great commission is to "make disciples". 



> I'd agree with this if Jesus actually told his disciples, "Go and disciple one person and then instruct that one person to disciple one more." Instead he said, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." Hardly "each one reach one," that.



I guess I didn't make myself clear. I'm not suggesting that we only minister to one person per year. I'm just pointing out that if we took discipleship seriously, it's impact could be massive. I worry that sometimes the modern church is more concerned with numbers (i.e. how many people can we evangelize) than making disciples. To make disciples takes time, and we are often not willing to invest that.


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## Der Pilger

Tripel said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and to go into ALL the world. Who are we to target a subset of humanity for the gospel when we know full well that we could bring the gospel to more? Is that what Jesus had in mind?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I didn't say that we were supposed to limit the gospel to anyone. Certainly we are to take the gospel message into all the world, but that is not on an individual basis. In other words, I am not supposed to go to one country and evangelize on Tuesday and then go to a different country on Wednesday. We, as the church, are to reach the whole world.
Click to expand...


Okay.



> But we also need to realize where our time is best spent. I think Scripture suggests that our time is best spent in establishing relationships and training our brothers and sisters in the faith.



I'd say the Bible definitely affirms that we should establish and nurture relationships with other believers.



> The command in the great commission is to "make disciples".



Indeed it is. Should we make disciples, then, of people who are believers or unbelievers?



> I'd agree with this if Jesus actually told his disciples, "Go and disciple one person and then instruct that one person to disciple one more." Instead he said, "Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." Hardly "each one reach one," that.





> I guess I didn't make myself clear. I'm not suggesting that we only minister to one person per year.



Okay, now I'm confused.  You said, "a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1,' which pretty clearly indicates one person reaching just one person in one year.



> I'm just pointing out that if we took discipleship seriously, it's impact could be massive.



I agree.


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## Tripel

Der Pilger said:


> Okay, now I'm confused.  You said, "a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1,' which pretty clearly indicates one person reaching just one person in one year.



That was not intended as a suggestion of what we should actually do. It was just a play on numbers.


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## Der Pilger

Tripel said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, now I'm confused.  You said, "a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1,' which pretty clearly indicates one person reaching just one person in one year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was not intended as a suggestion of what we should actually do. It was just a play on numbers.
Click to expand...


Okay, that's good to hear.


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## he beholds

Tripel said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Okay, now I'm confused.  You said, "a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1,' which pretty clearly indicates one person reaching just one person in one year.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That was not intended as a suggestion of what we should actually do. It was just a play on numbers.
Click to expand...


So I'm not a mathematician--is that scenario possibly true? If so, can a math guy tell me how!
I see 365,000 people converted in year one.
Then 365,000 more in year two.
Then 365,000 more in year three.
etc.
= 13,505,000 in 37 years so definitely not the whole world, i get that part.

versus
workers year oneYou 
workers year two You and Your convert 
workers year threeYou, your convert, your 2nd convert and Your convert's first convert  
workers year fourYou, your first convert, your first convert's first convert, your first convert's 2nd convert, your 2nd convert, your second convert's first convert
1 in year one
2 more in year two
4 more in year three
6 more in year four?????????

4 years =13 (if my sketchy math is actually correct.) I don't know how 37 years is going to build more than 13,505,000 let alone the whole population, but I am admittedly dense in math. 

This is where I get stuck. Who knows math? I know this is probably a very basic formula, but I cannot figure out what to be adding!! I think it should have exponents, but I basically forget what to do with those. For shame. Don't send your kids to public school.


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## puritanpilgrim

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Der Pilger
> 4. It seems contrary to the Great Commission in that it imposes a severe limit on the number of people to whom the gospel is proclaimed. Genuine relationships take time to build, so one has to wonder how many such people could be reached with the gospel as opposed to a widespread outreach to strangers.
> 
> I disagree with this. The Great Commission is not to go witness to as many people as you can. It is to make disciples.
> 
> Here is an interesting explanation with numbers:
> 
> **If 1,000 people were converted every day, it would take 15,000 years for the whole world to be reached (that is assuming a static population).
> 
> **If a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1, and then spur on his disciple to do the same while starting a new one year discipleship with another person...and so on and so on, it would take 37 years to reach the whole world.



This doesn't make much sense. I don't understand the numbers or the significance. I'm sure more than a 1,000 people are converted every day. But I miss the point. Discipleship is part of the gospel.

Anyway, most Christians go years without sharing the gospel with anyone. Most churches don't try to go out and share the gospel. I think we need to encourage more gospel not less. It's something many Christians just think someone else does.


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## Tripel

he beholds said:


> ...This is where I get stuck. Who knows math? I know this is probably a very basic formula, but I cannot figure out what to be adding!! I think it should have exponents, but I basically forget what to do with those. For shame. Don't send your kids to public school.



Jessi,
I got a little lost in your math. You are right that it is a very basic formula.
Year 1, you have 1 person discipling. After that it doubles every year.


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## Kim G

Has anyone heard of the "chess board" analogy? A man asks a king for one grain of rice on one square of the chess board, two grains on the second square, four grains on the third, eight on the fourth, etc. By the time the king gets through with all sixty-four squares on the chess board, he had given away enough rice to feed the entire world with over a ton of rice per person.

That's how this would work:


> **If a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1, and then spur on his disciple to do the same while starting a new one year discipleship with another person...and so on and so on, it would take 37 years to reach the whole world.



1st year=1 convert (2 Christians, you and the convert)
2nd=4 converts
3rd=8
4th=16
5th=32
6th=64
7th=128
8th=256
9th=512
10th=1,024
11th=2,048
12th=4,096
13th=8,192
14th=16,384
15th=32,768
16th=65,536
17th=131,072
18th=262,144
19th=524,288
20th=1,048,576
21th=2,097,152
22th=4,194,304
23th=8,388,608
24th=16,777,216
25th=33,554,432
26th=67,108,864
27th=134,217,728
28th=268,435,456
29th=536,870,921
30th=1,073,741,824
31th=2,147,483,648
32th=4,294,967,296
33th=8,589,934,592 Christians

So it would take 33 years to produce 8.5 billion Christians.


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## Tripel

puritanpilgrim said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Der Pilger
> 4. It seems contrary to the Great Commission in that it imposes a severe limit on the number of people to whom the gospel is proclaimed. Genuine relationships take time to build, so one has to wonder how many such people could be reached with the gospel as opposed to a widespread outreach to strangers.
> 
> I disagree with this. The Great Commission is not to go witness to as many people as you can. It is to make disciples.
> 
> Here is an interesting explanation with numbers:
> 
> **If 1,000 people were converted every day, it would take 15,000 years for the whole world to be reached (that is assuming a static population).
> 
> **If a single person took a full year to disciple another person 1-on-1, and then spur on his disciple to do the same while starting a new one year discipleship with another person...and so on and so on, it would take 37 years to reach the whole world.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This doesn't make much sense. I don't understand the numbers or the significance. I'm sure more than a 1,000 people are converted every day. But I miss the point. Discipleship is part of the gospel.
Click to expand...


It seems I caused a problem with the numbers. I guess I never should have mentioned it. 

I was not suggesting that this be the strategy or that the numbers themselves are significant. All I was doing was trying to emphasize the importance of discipleship, not mere evangelism. If we poured our lives into those who are younger in the faith and then trained them to do the same, the snowball affect would be massive. I'm not trying to say anything radical, just pointing out that we don't take discipleship seriously enough.


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## A guy

It has been my experience that proponents of friendship evangelism have used this more as an excuse not to share the gospel. I think it is one form of evangelism that can be effective, but it is not the only one. Jesus and the woman at the well, Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch, Paul at Mars Hill are just three examples off the top of my head where no prior friendship had been established.


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## Der Pilger

A guy said:


> It has been my experience that proponents of friendship evangelism have used this more as an excuse not to share the gospel.



On top of that, the closer and more intimate your friendship becomes, the harder it will probably be to share the gospel with them out of fear that the intimacy will be lost.

Aside from that (and I think I've mentioned this before), I can't get around the fact that *it is just plain dishonest *to pursue a friendship with someone with a hidden agenda. No matter how many proponents of FE I speak with, I can never understand how they can do this to someone else in good conscience.


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## cih1355

Just out of curiosity, who came up with the expression, "friendship evangelism"? What is the rationale for having such this expression? Is the way we share the gospel with friends different from the way we share the gospel with people who are not our friends?


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## Theoretical

> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *A guy*
> 
> 
> _It has been my experience that proponents of friendship evangelism have used this more as an excuse not to share the gospel._
> 
> On top of that, the closer and more intimate your friendship becomes, the harder it will probably be to share the gospel with them out of fear that the intimacy will be lost.
> 
> Aside from that (and I think I've mentioned this before), I can't get around the fact that *it is just plain dishonest *to pursue a friendship with someone with a hidden agenda. No matter how many proponents of FE I speak with, I can never understand how they can do this to someone else in good conscience.


This is very true, and something all too easy a trap to fall into when something potentially promising comes up. Even the other day, I realize I made a slip in this area of wanting to be someone's friend mostly out of an agenda.

Evangelizing friends in a way that is *not *dishonest has the following components:

*Developing friendships with people because you share common interests, be it the same vocation, hobbies, or other interests.

*In the course of the friendship as you become closer religion and why you believe what you do naturally and organically develops from your conversations. 

*When those conversations happen and you get an icy response, you continue being friends with the person, because you share the same interests and similar reasons for befriending someone. 

*Being willing to hear the other person's viewpoint and perspective. It can't be a one-way street.

*Being willing to be emotional support in times of difficulty, assist them professionally/academically, and the like, just as you would for any of your other friends that you care about.

*Talking about more than just religion or outreach to the person. Being willing to never once mention Christianity or some apologetic argument in a discussion, but just talking about a variety of things, both ordinary and extraordinary.

*Being willing to be a friend in terms of emotional support in times of difficulty, providing professional/academic connections, socializing with each other's friends - in general, treating them as you would an ordinary friend and not as a special project t

*Not dropping off the face of the planet or smothering them with attention if they do convert and become active in the church.

*Finally, and most importantly, ask yourself whether you have any reason to be friends besides you wanting to evangelize them. If this person never becomes Christian, would you still have a reason to be friends?

I say these not as an experienced practioner, but as one with lots of failures in this regard and bad motives that still come up from time to time for friendship choices.


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## Pergamum

cih1355 said:


> Just out of curiosity, who came up with the expression, "friendship evangelism"? What is the rationale for having such this expression? Is the way we share the gospel with friends different from the way we share the gospel with people who are not our friends?



I think the phrase came about to stress that the method was informal, out of the church, and was a dialogue and not monologue (from a pulpit) and was evidenced by acts of love and relationship instead of the mere dissemination of cognitive facts.

-----Added 4/29/2009 at 08:10:59 EST-----



CharlieJ said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Gospel does spread relationally, and family and friends act as "bridges of God" by which the Gospel spreads. However, a much better approach than looking for new friends who will feel that you are being insincere, is to love and bless your existing network of friends and strive to truly enlarge that and to truly make relationships for sake of making relationships, not as an underhanded ploy to foist your wares on them like a cheap salesman.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergy, this is a big problem in Greenville. My sister works at Bob Jones University, plays in a "Christian" volleyball league, and goes to Heritage Bible Church. In a typical week, she might not see a single person who is not a professing Christian. How should she seek to evangelize?
Click to expand...


Yes, when christians get into "The Christian bubble" it becomes hard to associate and relate to non-believers.

If all of these people with whom your sister associate are truly Christian, than this is a wonderful problem to have.

I'll write more later on this. What would your advice to your sister be?


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## Puritan Sailor

he beholds said:


> versus
> workers year oneYou
> workers year two You and Your convert
> workers year threeYou, your convert, your 2nd convert and Your convert's first convert
> workers year fourYou, your first convert, your first convert's first convert, your first convert's 2nd convert, your 2nd convert, your second convert's first convert
> 1 in year one
> 2 more in year two
> 4 more in year three
> 6 more in year four?????????
> 
> 4 years =13 (if my sketchy math is actually correct.) I don't know how 37 years is going to build more than 13,505,000 let alone the whole population, but I am admittedly dense in math.
> 
> This is where I get stuck. Who knows math? I know this is probably a very basic formula, but I cannot figure out what to be adding!! I think it should have exponents, but I basically forget what to do with those. For shame. Don't send your kids to public school.



It's exponential. Keep multiplying out the numbers 37 times. You're reproducing reproducers. You reproduce one reproducer in one year, who in turn reproduces another reproducer in a year along side you, it starts slow but grows quickly later on. Kinda like compound interest. But I think you get the point. In discipleship you produce a disciple who will in turn produce more disciples.


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## Pergamum

This seems to agree with the parables of Jesus where I think the Kingdom of God is likened to leaven which leavens the whole...


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## Der Pilger

Theoretical said:


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by *A guy*
> 
> 
> _It has been my experience that proponents of friendship evangelism have used this more as an excuse not to share the gospel._
> 
> On top of that, the closer and more intimate your friendship becomes, the harder it will probably be to share the gospel with them out of fear that the intimacy will be lost.
> 
> Aside from that (and I think I've mentioned this before), I can't get around the fact that *it is just plain dishonest *to pursue a friendship with someone with a hidden agenda. No matter how many proponents of FE I speak with, I can never understand how they can do this to someone else in good conscience.
> 
> 
> 
> This is very true, and something all too easy a trap to fall into when something potentially promising comes up. Even the other day, I realize I made a slip in this area of wanting to be someone's friend mostly out of an agenda.
> 
> Evangelizing friends in a way that is *not *dishonest has the following components:
> 
> *Developing friendships with people because you share common interests, be it the same vocation, hobbies, or other interests.
> 
> *In the course of the friendship as you become closer religion and why you believe what you do naturally and organically develops from your conversations.
> 
> *When those conversations happen and you get an icy response, you continue being friends with the person, because you share the same interests and similar reasons for befriending someone.
Click to expand...


I agree with this wholeheartedly. What you are suggesting here is sincere friendship not driven by an agenda. I've had a friendship with a guy for several years now that began because we shared an interest. Spiritual conversations came up eventually, and at one point I gave him a booklet or tract of some kind. To my knowledge he has not come to Christ, but we are still friends and stay in touch (he has since moved to another state).



> *Finally, and most importantly, ask yourself whether you have any reason to be friends besides you wanting to evangelize them. If this person never becomes Christian, would you still have a reason to be friends?



That gets right to the heart of the matter, in my opinion.


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## Kevin

This reminds me of the debates we used to have in my "fundy" days. It was the Sword of the Lord/Jack Hyles axis of drive by conversions vs the Liberty/TTU/Southwide Baptist "you cant talk to people you don't know" fight of the late 80's to early 90's.

I am surprised to see it popping up here.

Did not Jesus upset the religious people of his day by spending all of his time with sinners? Did he not teach us by his example that discipleship is a multi-year process? 

The most successful evangelist in the history of the church was probably St Patrick. I would recomend a study of his life & method to anyone who desires to see real life & culture changing evangelism. He spent years loving people who were very unlovely. He lived with the people he prayed for.

He did not just accost them in a public space, then move on after they had signed a card.

Our job is not to get cards filled out, but to make disciples. QED.


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## puritanpilgrim

> On top of that, the closer and more intimate your friendship becomes, the harder it will probably be to share the gospel with them out of fear that the intimacy will be lost.



If you really cared about someone you would want what is best for them regardless of the cost. Even if you were risking you friendship with that person, because you care more about that person's soul than that friendship. If you hold back the gospel because you want to keep everything nice then you are not a mature Christian and you do not really care about your "friend." Which begs the question as to whether you are really their friend.


----------

