# Can someone give me reasons exactly how the Mass is idolatrous



## kvanlaan (Feb 20, 2010)

Basically, I need an answer that (preferably) gives Bible verses supporting how the RC/EO Mass is idolatrous but not a voluminous treatment; I need to be able to understand/explain this concept in five minutes or less (because I probably won't get another moment past that).

Any takers?


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## rbcbob (Feb 20, 2010)

"Idolatrous"? How about heretical.

Hebrews 10:11-12 11 And every priest stands ministering daily and *offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins.* 12 But this Man, after He had offered *one sacrifice for sins forever*, sat down at the right hand of God,


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## au5t1n (Feb 20, 2010)

Don't they worship the elements of communion? worshipping a created thing is idolatry. Also, if any prayers to saints are spoken, then you have prayer to someone besides God - also idolatry.


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## fredtgreco (Feb 20, 2010)

Kevin,

Here are some quotes from the New Catholic Catechism (NCC), with my emphasis in bold:

The perpetuation of Christ's sacrifice:



> “When the Church celebrates the Eucharist, she commemorates Christ’s Passover, and it is made present: *the sacrifice Christ offered once and for all on the cross remains ever present*. As often as the sacrifice of the Cross by which Christ our Pasch has been sacrificed is celebrated on the altar, the work of our redemption is carried out.” (NCC, 1364)


No differentiation between Christ's work and the Sacrament (Heb. 7:27; Heb 10:11-18)


> “*The sacrifice of Christ and the sacrifice of the Eucharist are one single sacrifice*…In this divine sacrifice which is celebrated in the Mass, the same Christ who offered himself once in a bloody manner on the altar of the cross is contained and is offered in an unbloody manner.” (NCC, 1367)


The Mass as a sacrifice for the dead (contra Heb. 9:27):


> “The Eucharist sacrifice is also *offered for the faithful departed *who ‘have died in Christ but are not yet wholly purified,’ so that they may be able to enter into the light and peace of Christ” (NCC, 1371)


Conflation of worship


> “Worship of the Eucharist. The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers *to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration*, not only during the Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful.” (NCC, 1378)


 
Salvific effect of the Mass: 


> “the Eucharist cannot unite us to Christ without at the same time cleansing us from past sins and preserving us *from future sins*” (NCC, 1393)


Hope that helps somewhat.


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## dudley (Feb 20, 2010)

The Mass is the center of Roman Catholic experience. I am an ex Roman catholic and now a Reformed Presbyterian Protestant. I renounce the mass as I do Roman catholicism and her papist teachings and her pope. Anyone who knows anything about the Church of Rome will know this, because it's more than symbolic. As the priests stand before the alter and the bread and wine he, as he says 'This is Christ's blood and body', he actually has miraculous power to change the emblems - it's called transubstantiation. The bread and the wine convert, it is claimed, actually into the body, the blood, the soul and divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ. This can be seen because the priest will lift the wafer before the congregation, and the congregation lift up and worship in their spirits, adore as divine, the sacrament. The Mass, the Church of Rome claims, is a real sacrifice, it is a sacrifice for both the sins of the living and the sins of the dead. It is a continual sacrifice, and they claim that it is the same sacrifice as Christ's sacrifice on the cross of Calvary.

The mass denies the sacrifice of Christ on Calvary that we Protestants know is sufficient to save all who are Justified through His grace and accept His effectual calling and are redemned by His atonemnt for us to the Father.

The mass is not only blashemy it makes a mockery of Christs sacrifice on Calvary and teaches against scripture. It thus also becomes an idolotrous abomination. It is why we Reformed Protestants renounce the mass and the roman catholic teaching of transubsantiation.

That is because the Mass is not based on the word of God, that is the contrast, that is the great issue of the ages. John 19:30 says it is finished, the Mass says it is continual, it is not sufficient, it must go on if you are to be saved perhaps


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## Berean (Feb 20, 2010)

The official term is "The Most Holy _Sacrifice_ of the Mass". It's not a worship service. The "priest's" job is to call Christ down onto his altar where he is re-sacrificed and offered to God over and over for the sins of Roman Catholics.



> The Mass, first and foremost, is a Sacrifice. Not a figurative sacrifice, not a mere remembrance of something done long ago, and not a metaphor. It is a real sacrifice. At Mass you are witnessing – even participating in – a sacrifice, very real and very present. --Boston Catholic Journal



The Most Holy Sacrifice of the Mass: A Primer for Clueless Catholics


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## dudley (Feb 20, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> "Idolatrous"? How about heretical.
> 
> rcbbob hits it right on the nose. The mass is both idolotrous and heresy. Roman Catholic theologians and many Roman catholics have been taught to respond to protestants and will say: 'Well, what about John 6 and 54 when Jesus says 'This is my body, this is my blood'?'. Well, when you read down further into John 6 and verse 63, the Lord Jesus explained and said: 'It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life'. They are figurative language, 'This is my body, this is my blood', He was sitting beside them as He spoke those words, they were spiritual words. They signified what He would do at Calvary, they weren't meant to be taken literally, just as He said 'I am the door, I am the bread of life' and so on. Probably the greatest verse on this subject is John 19:30, where the Lord Jesus cried from the cross 'Tetelestai', 'It is finished!'.


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## Iconoclast (Feb 20, 2010)

Hebrews 10 is the most clear and direct passage to explain the perfect "once for all time " sacrifice. Perfect in that it was once offered never to be repeated.
Jesus as our Great High Priest sat down showing that His work was complete. The Father who sent the Son accepted completely this once for all time sacrifice......There is no * unbloody sacrifice of the mass* offered by some "earthly priest". The fact that the RC church has an earthly priesthood after Hebrews 10 magnifies its corruption of the word of God.
All christians are saints, believer priests offering the sacrifice of praise with our lips.
12Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate. 

13Let us go forth therefore unto him without the camp, bearing his reproach. 

14For here have we no continuing city, but we seek one to come. 

15By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name. 

16But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood, 

6And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.


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## dudley (Feb 20, 2010)

i would also suggest you view the following on the internet. Also there is a excelent piece on the falacy of the doctrine of transubstantiation on Reclaiming the mind ministries , Why I don't but the rc doctrine of transubstantiation and references John [email protected]

YouTube - The Roman Catholic Doctrine of Transubstantiation
3 Nov 2008 ... In other words, the Roman Catholic view of Transubstantiation is that the 
cookies ..... Read all of John 6 and don't forget verses61-63, ...
[video=youtube;oK_zBLesDyg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oK_zBLesDyg[/video] - 169k - Cached


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## dudley (Feb 21, 2010)

*I also would suggest the following scriptual basis for why the mass is idolotrous*

I also would suggest the following scriptual basis for why the mass is idolotrous and thus a balsphemy

30.2 In this ordinance Christ is not offered up to his Father, nor is any real sacrifice made for remission of sin of the living or the dead. It is only a memorial of that one offering up of Christ by himself upon the cross once for all.1 It is also a spiritual offering of all possible praise to God for [Christ's work].2 So the Roman Catholic sacrifice of the mass, as they call it, is utterly abominable and defamatory of Christ's own sacrifice which is the only propitiation for all the sins of the elect. 

(1) Joh 19:30; Heb 9:25-28; 10:10-14; Luk 22:19; 1Co 11:24-25 
(2) Mat 26:26-27,30 with Heb 13:10-16 

30.5 The outward elements in this ordinance, when correctly set apart for the use ordained by Christ, bear such a strong relation to the Lord crucified, that they are sometimes truly, but figuratively, called by the name of the things they represent, namely, the body and blood of Christ.1 However, in substance and nature, they still remain truly and only bread and wine as they were before.2 

(1) 1Co 11:27; Mat 26:26-28 
(2) 1Co 11:26-28; Mat 26:29 

30.6 The doctrine commonly called transubstantiation, which maintains that the substance of bread and wine is changed into the substance of Christ's body and blood when consecrated by a priest or by some other way, is repugnant not only to Scripture,1 but even to common sense and reason. It overthrows the nature of the ordinance, and has been and is the cause of numerous superstitions and gross idolatries. 

(1) Mat 26:26-29; Luk 24:36-43,50-51; Joh 1:14; 20:26-29; Act 1:9-11; 3:21; 1Co 11:24-26; Luk 12:1; Rev 1:20; Gen 17:10-11; Eze 37:11; Gen 41:26-27


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## kvanlaan (Feb 21, 2010)

I've heard the "this is my blood" argument before and it drives me nuts. If that is how it works, then to prove our love for Christ, we need to "feed his sheep". But wait, Jesus has no sheep? Or does he? And this is how we are to prove our love for Him. And thus begins the Indiana-Jones-esque search for the literal flock of Christ, without which there is no way to prove our love for our Lord.


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