# Profitable to read Atheistic Material?



## ServantofGod (Oct 11, 2008)

Going through Borders recently, I noticed the Richard Dawkin's book, "The God Delusion," and a few other interesting titles by some well known atheists. I skimmed through a few and found their work quite challenging, both spiritually and intellectually. I was tempted to buy them, but wanted to seek advice before I spent $15 a book.

As a presuppositional apologetic, is it profitable to read said books, to both challenge the intellect, and sharpen the faith, to, in a sense, "understand the other side?"


----------



## Simply_Nikki (Oct 11, 2008)

ServantofGod said:


> Going through Borders recently, I noticed the Richard Dawkin's book, "The God Delusion," and a few other interesting titles by some well known atheists. I skimmed through a few and found their work quite challenging, both spiritually and intellectually. I was tempted to buy them, but wanted to seek advice before I spent $15 a book.
> 
> As a presuppositional apologetic, is it profitable to read said books, to both challenge the intellect, and sharpen the faith, to, in a sense, "understand the other side?"



I was considering buying that book as well, but haven't yet. I did buy Darwin's Origin of the Species, for that very purpose (understanding the opponent's argument) and then bought several books that addressed its holes, like Darwin's Black Box. I've also bought the Da Vinci Code book and read it, and then read a few books that rebutted it. So I think it is helpful, so that you can make an intelligent and accurate assessment of the other side's argument and better know how to rebutt them .


----------



## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 12, 2008)

From experience the worst thing you can do in a discussion is write off a popular book until you have read it. Even if you are fully justified in saying it is silly, you can't say that until you can say you have read it because otherwise people ask, you say no, and you look a little sheepish. But it really depends if people you engage with have read it or not. I personally have not but I do believe it _could_ be beneficial. It can be dangerous though and must be done with caution.


----------



## Confessor (Oct 14, 2008)

Read _The God Delusion_ if you want to see the smug "new atheist" movement in action. From my reading of it, it was possibly the weakest argument for unbelief I have ever seen. Dawkins is a brilliant scientist (even though I'm no evolutionist by any means), but not so much in the arena of religion and philosophy.

Throughout the book, too -- and this was quite insulting -- he constantly referred to "theologians" (curiously not citing any names) who provided pathetic defenses of certain biblical passages by stating that they were not historical, etc. They were such blatant straw men that Dawkins unabashedly used to make the Bible appear to be indefensible.

Also, you'll notice his central argument against God's existence is notoriously question-begging and obviously stemming from his personal commitment/presupposition to unbelief.

He also doesn't address TAG, though if he did, I bet he would rehash Michael Martin's TANG argument, which is nearly as weak as Dawkins's central argument.


Otherwise, do not be afraid to read anti-Christian literature, provided you do so with a humble heart and a prayerful attitude. If you see some perceived discrepancy in Christianity that the author brings up, immediately stop and solve it so that you do not become emotionally involved with the flow of the book. That is what happened to me in the past, but God got me through it in the end.


----------



## staythecourse (Oct 14, 2008)

How about this: Know their mind inside and out, all their logic, every argument and beat the pants off it with God's word and write a comprehensive compendium of their view and the truth. I'll take a signed copy for $100


----------



## Marrow Man (Oct 14, 2008)

As a practice, I do not wish to line the pockets of atheists with money. However, there are other ways of accessing the material w/o shelling out the $15. I've noticed that my local library often carries many of these kinds of books (and if not, I'll bet you could get them on loan), and they can sometimes be found at used bookstores at considerably lower prices.

For instance, here in Louisville we have Half Price Books, which sells everything at, well, half price (sometimes you can find books for $1 or $2 on the clearance shelf). I was perusing the shelves once and spotted a copy of Sam Harris' <i>End of Faith</i>. I was momentarily tempted to buy it, but I sat and read portions of the book for 5 or 10 minutes and decided it really wasn't worth half price!


----------



## christiana (Oct 14, 2008)

staythecourse said:


> How about this: Know their mind inside and out, all their logic, every argument and beat the pants off it with God's word and write a comprehensive compendium of their view and the truth. I'll take a signed copy for $100



Sorry, but I disagree! We are strongly instructed in scripture to know the Word! Not once are we ever told to know the evils, errors or heresies of the world! In fact there are several times in the OT when the Israelites were instructed to not even allow their name to come out of their mouth, not to utter who they even are!
In recent readings about the beginnings of apostasy it is stated the first thing to occur is an interest in what they think and do, a facination or interest in their literature!
How can we be pure and committed to One if we are so interested in all the 'others' that come along? I oppose learning more of the other side in any way but to always be more informed about our God and His ways and what it is He wants us to know and do. Just my


----------



## wturri78 (Oct 14, 2008)

christiana said:


> staythecourse said:
> 
> 
> > How about this: Know their mind inside and out, all their logic, every argument and beat the pants off it with God's word and write a comprehensive compendium of their view and the truth. I'll take a signed copy for $100
> ...



Paul was quite well versed in the pagan philosophies of his day, and used that point of connection with the Greeks to launch apologetic discussions. He was familiar with the writings of their own poets. I can appreciate your concern that becoming fascinated with their literature can lead us down a dangerous path, but how can we hope to meaninfully interact with other points of view if we don't understand them in their own words? At best we'll appear to the world as people with our fingers placed firmly in our ears, saying "We're not listening!" Which is pretty much what they accuse us of doing.

To the original post, I think we should strive to understand competing points of view so we can meet them in their own turf and defeat them.


----------



## christiana (Oct 14, 2008)

Well, I always thought we were not discussing which was the 'best way' but informing them of the 'only' way. I guess I just dont see the point of them telling me what they believe and then me telling them what I believe. I show them scripture and there is a possible discussion but no argument.
If I have the wrong idea I would certainly prefer to change but just dont think I have enough time left to learn all the ways that are not right. I so love reading about Truth and know when I'm reading it, pondering it, considering it I also am being greatly influenced by it; same is true if I'm reading error, dont you think? 
I do appreciate your thoughts and am not seeking argument, but what is best according to Him.


----------



## staythecourse (Oct 14, 2008)

What was I thinking!!!!

OK. I was thinking of some remarkable men who "knew the times" and fought ferociously to attack heresy by first knowing their arguments very well, some of them having come out of the very heresies they once embraced.

The first who comes to mind outside of Scripture is Augustine and his work "On Heresies." He would lay out their argument fairly and then refute it with the Word of God.

Irenius wrote "Against heresies" and tackled Gnosticism.

How about Open Theism today. Know it, battle it and smack it down for other people's good so that you can "give a defense."

You have to know the other side of heresies to win over it.

Thanks Christina but we ought to know what's around us from Mormonism to JW to New Age to Materialism, to "Eat, Drink and be Merry."


----------



## christiana (Oct 14, 2008)

Well, I really, really hate it when I'm wrong. Especially this time as I have had really strong feeling about this issue and when something doesnt measure up to scripture it can be then seen to be error or heresy.
I even voiced strong objections to the possible study of open theism in adult sunday school classes. They changed the book but it was not because of my objection they said. I really didnt mind why they changed but was glad that we moved on to more biblical studies. It doesnt make me feel good to be bogged down in the study of error. If my opinion is wrong I apologize for being so verbose about it. I still would rather read the Puritans or scripture than to study error. I'll call it a personal preference, o.k.? Thanks for airing the issue out. I likely wont take up a study of JW or Mormonism is this lifetime though, or open theism or Lordship controversy or a lot of other wild ideas that are not substantiated in scripture.
Peace.


----------



## staythecourse (Oct 14, 2008)

Well the Lord sure makes people different. Some love knowing the other view and winning with the truth. Have you ever read a baptism thread here  Anyway, it may not be a great idea for a Sunday school to tackle a heresy unless the local church is in the fray and being torn apart due to heresy. Many won't care and it would be over their head.

So, God bless Christina.


----------



## christiana (Oct 14, 2008)

.........and also, in the reading I have done about 'discernment' it states we are not to study to become knowledgable about errors and heresies. I loved reading that as it rather validated my thoughts. See pg 102 of Tim Challies 'The Discipline of Spiritual Discernment'. I really enjoyed that book!
The scriptures that seem to enforce this line of thinking are:
Ex. 23:13
Ps 16:4
Josh 23:7,8
Eph 5:5-13

Comments are welcome if I have misunderstood these verses. Thanks!


----------



## christiana (Oct 14, 2008)

"Why meddle with heresies? What can they do but pollute your mind? Why should you be so unwise as to go through pools of foul teaching merely because you think it easy to cleanse yourself of its pollution? Such trifling is dangerous. When you begin to read a book and find it pernicious, put it aside. Someone may upbraid you for not reading it all through. But why should you? One sentence of some books ought to be quite enough for a sensible man to reject the whole mass. Let those that can relish such meat have it, but I have a taste for better food._* Keep to the study of the Word of God*_. If it be your duty to expose these evils, encounter them bravely with prayer to God to help you. But if not, as a humble believer in Jesus, what business have you to taste and test such noxious fare, when it is exposed in the market?"
Charles Spurgeon
Absconding and Apostasy
March 22, 1917


----------



## Confessor (Oct 16, 2008)

Christiana,

How are we supposed to know they're heresies if we are not knowledgeable about them?


----------



## Craig (Oct 18, 2008)

I say read the God Delusion...but Dawkins is a complete hack. You will likely find it in your local library along with the other New Atheist tripe.

Pastor Doug Wilson has a couple of books that came out dealing with the New Atheists...one of them is a debate with Christopher Hitchens...and he'll be debating Hitchens while promoting the book. Here's the itenerary.


----------



## Herald (Oct 18, 2008)

These books are useful for apologetic purposes; but beware! Know what you believe before reading.


----------

