# Is a biblically divorced and remarried man qualified to be a pastor?



## Osage Bluestem

I'm trying to discern if I am called into the ministry or not. However, my biggest problem is that I am divorced and remarried. My ex wife left me for another man then divorced me. I got remarried later on.

What do you think about this situation? Is this a red flag that says "no you can't be called into the ministry" or what?

Here is what I wrote about the situation. It seems to me like I'm probably disqualified because of that. What if it causes scandal..etc

Is a biblically divorced and remarried man qualified for the pastorate? « Osage Bluestem

However there seems to be a need and I really would love nothing more than to be a minister. I don't know. I haven't talked to my pastor about this yet. However I did speak with my cousin who is a SBC pastor/theologian PHD. He said that he wouldn't hire me because where he is at in the southeast it would cause scandal, however he said that out west there is a great need for pastors and teachers and being divorced and remarried wouldn't cause scandal there. However, he stressed I would need to graduate from seminary first and that would be expensive. I don't have a lot of money. If I went to seminary I would have to go at night and find a way to pay for it because I have a wife and three kids. She stays home to nurture the children and I am the provider. In my job I am in charge of a technical department for a security products manufacturer. My title is solutions engineer. 

I want to preach the gospel and minister to the needs of God's people and evangelize the lost. I want to do it all the time. What should I do? I pray about it a lot but I just don't know. I don't want to do the wrong thing in regards to being called. I want to make sure I am called before I act.

Also I was raised by my grandfather who was a pastor. He is very old and has had a stroke and cannot talk about this with me. As a child I used to go with him to visit and minister to people in their homes, nursing homes, and hospitals. I used to read with him in his study at the church. Is it possible that I just miss those wonderful times? I want to make sure I am really called!

Here is a short example of his preaching and a photo of the church I was saved and baptized in. We lived accors the street in the parsonage: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GalTUyRTXls He was calvinistic. His favorite pastor was Spurgeon. He didn't confess a confession. He just preached the bible


Wise biblical advice appreciated.


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## lynnie

In the PCA and Calvinist Baptist churches I know of you could be pastor/elder, as desertion and adultery by a spouse are both considered legitimate grounds for divorce and remarriage. Of course I'd assume there would be some probing into why she left, and if anything about you provoked her, and have you fully repented and changed in those areas. ( not saying it was you, just saying how it would be approached).

I can't speak about your calling, but I can say that generally in a good church there are more opportunities for laymen to minister outside the pulpit than there are willing volunteers. My church has over 400 people and my pastor is certainly not the only guy going to the inner city mission or the hospital or the missions outreaches. Every member of the body of Christ is a "minister" in some capacity. So your burden/desire does not necessarily equate to a pastor-teacher-elder calling, although it might. 

Definitely talk to your pastor, sometimes churches will help with tuition if they think you are called.


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## Bill The Baptist

Many people believe that divorced and remarried men should not be pastors because of Paul's instruction that they be "the husband of one wife" Of course others have interpreted this verse to refer to polygamy and not neccesarily divorce and remarriage. Regardless, many see a failed marriage as a sign that a man does not manage his household well and is thus unqualified. I really think that is should be based on the overall evidence in a man's life and not just on one event. You must also judge whether or not the person has a genuine calling, because if they do than who are we to argue with God. As a wise man once said, " The devil never put it on anyone's heart to preach the gospel."


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## Notthemama1984

Never! because obviously divorce is a sin that cannot be forgiven.


---------- Post added at 12:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:35 PM ----------




Bill The Baptist said:


> As a wise man once said, " The devil never put it on anyone's heart to preach the gospel."



The world is full of false gospels preached by false preachers who think they are called of God to deliver that "gospel." Just because you want to does not mean you should.


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## torstar

Case by case basis.

Nothing ventured, nothing gained.


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## PuritanCovenanter

I don't mean to be harsh but your knowledge of the scriptures and historical Christianity seem to be very incomplete. You seem to have some knowledge concerning some theological issues but it would make me question your ability to understand a calling into the Pastorate. As far as your questioning your ability to be considered based upon your previous marriage that would have to be decided by a careful look at reasons for your wife's departure and the circumstances. And I understand that is not a fun thing to rehash. Many men desire office for various reasons. Pastoring is one of the hardest jobs on the face of the earth. It should take years of training before one enters into this vocation. This can be proven by scripture also. Nothing is prohibiting you from sharing your faith right now. Share it and lead others to Christ in the station you are at. Learn to disciple men on a daily basis. By doing this under the care of your church the men over you can evaluate your abilities and gifts. Confer with your Church Elders, Leaders, and get more acquainted with historic Christianity. Your desire is good. Grow in Grace and the knowledge of the Lord.


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## he beholds

Since your divorce was a biblical one, I believe that you are no different than any other man trying to discern a call.


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## TimV

Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.


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## J. Dean

The Bible gives two clear cases of permission from divorce: adultery and desertion.

If what you said is true about your ex-wife leaving you for another guy, then that is within the acceptable bounds of divorce (And may I add that I'm sorry to hear that, my friend  ).


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## Osage Bluestem

J. Dean said:


> The Bible gives two clear cases of permission from divorce: adultery and desertion.
> 
> If what you said is true about your ex-wife leaving you for another guy, then that is within the acceptable bounds of divorce (And may I add that I'm sorry to hear that, my friend  ).



Thanks brother. It's ok. It was years ago. I'm well over it. Although it was quite the shock at the time.


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## he beholds

TimV said:


> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.


 
Thank you! I could not figure out how that was recurring advice! EVERY man discerning a call/church seeking a pastor is done case-by-case. Sure, we could say, "case-by-case, you will meet some prejudices," but that has nothing to do with should one go to seminary. I mean, every person interviewing for any job, secular or religious, will meet prejudices (he's too old, too young, too fat, too ugly, too handsome, unmarried, remarried, etc...). Being deserted by a wife is not a spiritual flaw of the man's. It is also not a more spiritual prejudice for a church to have. If Jesus allows for divorce in such a situation, it is not a sin. Jesus does not allow sin. If someone else is to then hold that person guilty of sin, _they_ are wrong.


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## Scott1

> Westminster Confession of Faith
> 
> Chapter XXIV
> Of Marriage and Divorce
> 
> ....
> V. Adultery or fornication committed after a contract, being detected before marriage, gives just occasion to the innocent party to dissolve that contract.[11] In the case of adultery after marriage, it is lawful for the innocent party to sue out a divorce and, after the divorce,[12] to marry another, as if the offending party were dead.[13]
> 
> VI. Although the corruption of man be such as is apt to study arguments unduly to put asunder those whom God has joined together in marriage: yet, nothing but adultery, or such wilful desertion as can no way be remedied by the Church, or civil magistrate, is cause sufficient of dissolving the bond of marriage:[14] wherein, a public and orderly course of proceeding is to be observed; and the persons concerned in it not left to their own wills, and discretion, in their own case.[15]



This summarizes the doctrine of Scripture to say that the narrow biblical grounds are adultery or irremediable abandonment of a believer by an unbeliever. The aspirational standard is still reconciliation, even in those cases.

The grounds are not to be left to self determination.

I Timothy 3 and Titus I, requiring an exemplary, not perfect, but exemplary life qualification for church officers would seem to indicate if an unbiblical grounds, then a subsequent remarriage being unbiblical disqualifies from church office (minister, elder, deacon, etc.), at least.

Some would say more.


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## PuritanCovenanter

TimV said:


> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.



This isn't about forgiveness of sin Tim. And I think you know that. It isn't like saying our sins are forgiven on a case by case basis. This doesn't have anything to do with forgiveness of sin or sins. It has to do with qualifying for something. You do admit there are qualifications right? A person can be forgiven and be disqualified for position. We can discuss generalities here. Yes, I believe the WCF has it right concerning this issue. That is general. But his Elder's need to find out and discern this as I imagine they will if he pursues this. 

I am seeking to be remarried. It must first be determined whether or not I am eligible to be remarried. Did I have a biblical grounds for divorce? My testimony needs to be investigated by real people about real issues. A discussion forum is not a place to see it up front. The process still needs to be gone through with much humility. And it does rip open old wounds and failures.


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## KMK

What do your elders think? That would be the place to start.


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## Bill The Baptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> The world is full of false gospels preached by false preachers who think they are called of God to deliver that "gospel." Just because you want to does not mean you should



This only applies if your desire is to preach the true gospel.


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> Because there are factors that play into the qualifications of elder and pastor that have nil to do with divorce and remarriage. That's why.



I know that. But how does that info relate to this discussion?


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## DMcFadden

First, on the issue of the meaning of the biblical texts, cf. Saucy, BibSac 131 (July-September 1974) 229-240.

Second, when I served as a pastor, beyond the issue of a biblical reason for divorce, it was my rule to look at people in terms of their part in the breakup. Having never met too many truly "innocent" parties (like none!), it was important to me to assess how well they had come to terms with their own proportion (even if it was only 5%) of blame for the breakup and confessed their own sin. A self-righteous person insisting on his/her "rights" because he/she wasn't the one to leave impressed me a lot less than a person who could say "have mercy on me, O Lord, for I am a sinner" even if they were in the position of having been divorced by their spouse.

Third, it will depend on your denomination. Some groups ban ANY divorced people from serving as pastor regardless of the reasons and historical distance of the divorce. Others (mainlines), have some of their top leaders who are currently serving as remarried persons even after "unbiblical" divorces. (I know of a denomination where the top guy was ordained, cheated on his wife, reconciled, cheated on her again with one of his subordinates, left his wife and married his colleague, and kept his ministerial credentials!!! A bunch of the other denominational hierarchy even attended the wedding because they did not want not appear "judgmental"). And, some groups accept the fact of a "biblical divorce" as permitting one to be ordained and serve as pastor. So, yes, it does depend on your group.

You should seek the counsel of spiritual men you respect who know you well. In my tradition, the call to ministry is tested not merely by subjective feelings of the "called one," but also by the confirmation of the body. If they support and confirm you call, I would not personally see the divorce _prima facie_ disqualifying. Not being a "one woman man" (whether a cheater in fact or a lech who talks about sex inappropriately) would matter more to me than the divorce and remarriage. There are plenty of men in ministry who are not "one woman" men, even though they have never been divorced.

[25+ years ago I had to confront and then "out" my mentor in ministry for having an affair with one of my parishioners. It turned out that she was one of more than 100 that he cheated with over a decade, sometimes different women in the same week. Yet, now in his late 70s, he is STILL married to the same woman, his wife of nearly 60 years. Definitely NOT a "one woman man" by the standards of the Pastoral Epistles. My point is that the biblical standards are tougher than a simple "divorced" or "not divorced" criterion would indicate.]


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## KMK

DMcFadden said:


> First, on the issue of the meaning of the biblical texts, cf. Saucy, BibSac 131 (July-September 1974) 229-240.



Dennis, is that Bibliotheca Sacra by DTS?


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> Just because a man has been biblically divorced and remarried, doesn't mean that he is qualified to be a pastor.



Oh, so you were just joking, like with your "yes, someone, somewhere, has an opinion on that," type answers! Sorry! I missed that!


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## PuritanCovenanter

This is a complicated matter. It must first be determined that he didn't drive his wife away to another man also. There is a lot to look at concerning this. There is a lot to peer into theologically. A simple statement concerning a wife's departure might not be enough. It does have theological ramifications. It will affect his view of theology and knowing God. It will matter on how he discerns and counsels. His Elders are the best place to start with this. The unfortunate thing is that the SBC is very lax and doesn't understand a lot of this. I am a Reformed Baptist theologically for the most part. I do know of SBC guys who do not think he is qualified. From what I understand if he held to John Piper's position he wouldn't even be considered qualified to be remarried. Thus, he wouldn't be qualified for a position of leadership in the Church.

http://www.desiringgod.org/resource-library/articles/divorce-remarriage-a-position-paper


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## Bill The Baptist

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I don't mean to be harsh but your knowledge of the scriptures and historical Christianity seem to be very incomplete. You seem to have some knowledge concerning some theological issues but it would make me question your ability to understand a calling into the Pastorate



Obviously we can all agree that there are many qualifications that must be met before one can become a pastor, but you seem to be suggesting that in-depth knowledge of theology and church history are also prerequisites. I do not see this as being biblical because the men that Jesus chose to be his disciples were for the most part uneducated. Obviously one needs to be knowledgable before they can presume to teach, but that is what seminary and the church are for. To say that someone cannot even consider becoming a pastor because they do not yet possess the neccesary knowledge is wrong in my opinion.


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## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> A discussion forum is not a place to see it up front. The process still needs to be gone through with much humility. And it does rip open old wounds and failures.


 
Well, I have respect for the views here and I just wanted to discuss it. I have emailed my senior pastor and asked him to talk to me about it. Just wanting to see what you guys thought. We're not in the same denomination anyway for the most part. Looking for biblical advice on a subject I'm sure every pastor here has experience with.


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## he beholds

Joshua said:


> In one sense, yes. In another sense, it's perfectly acceptable to say that something needs to be dealt with on a case by case basis since circumstances are not universally applicable to everyone. The better way to ask the question would have been "Does a man's biblically justified divorce automatically disqualify him from consideration of office?"



I can't argue with you there. Wow, does that mean I'm dreaming? 

I guess I was answering _your_ question: "Does a man's biblically justified divorce automatically disqualify him from consideration of office?"

I think some are answering yours and some are answering his and some are answering other questions altogether! I think some aren't answering whether he's _biblically_ qualified, but what is their or a denominations's opinion regarding the qualifiability of a justifiably divorced man. 

I think the comments regarding re-establishing the man's innocence in a divorce are a little off. That should probably be discerned at the time of divorce or regarding church membership. Right? I mean, the church should have judged and dealt with that already. But to take a man who has already been "approved" innocent by the church and say, "Well, what did you do wrong in that marriage?" doesn't make sense to me. Of course every person in every marriage does really annoying, even hurtful things. But those don't give the other person the right to leave. If the divorce has been established as justified, I don't think what the offended partner did really matters. If he did do something that gave his wife the biblical right to leave, then he is already not in a justified divorce. 

I think those things regarding what sins did he commit against his first wife as well as what sins does he commit now, etc, should play into the "should I go to seminary" conversation, but that is the same with any other man. So in general, regarding qualification, I think a man who has been justifiably divorced is the same as a man who has only been married once/not married. I am willing to be convinced otherwise and I'm not speaking for personal reasons. My husband has only been married to me and is not seeking to be a pastor--so I'm not just saying what I want to be true.


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## KMK

KMK said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> 
> First, on the issue of the meaning of the biblical texts, cf. Saucy, BibSac 131 (July-September 1974) 229-240.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis, is that Bibliotheca Sacra by DTS?
Click to expand...

 
Yes it is! Robert L. Saucy, "Husband of one wife," Bibliotheca Sacra 131 (July-Sept. 1974): 229-240.

However, it appears that DTS does not sell back issues that old. Is there another source?

----------------

Found it: http://www.biblebb.com/files/elder.htm


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## torstar

TimV said:


> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.


 

Biblically divorced? I've heard and read quite a lot of the view that there is no such thing as a biblical divorce. Marriage is once and that's it while both are alive. And these are individuals that are in admired standing by denoms represented here, nobody off the deep end.


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## ericfromcowtown

torstar said:


> TimV said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biblically divorced? I've heard and read quite a lot of the view that there is no such thing as a biblical divorce. Marriage is once and that's it while both are alive. And these are individuals that are in admired standing by denoms represented here, nobody off the deep end.
Click to expand...


So Jesus and Paul were wrong, then?


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## DMcFadden

Eric,

There is a respectable argument that sees the Erasmian position (divorce permitted for adultery and desertion) as a revisionist "liberalizing" misreading of Jesus and Paul. At one time (nearly 30 years ago when doing my D.Min.), I actually held to the consanguine marriage view as the most biblically defensible one for a variety of reasons grounded in the meaning of the words of Jesus and Paul. Since then, however, my thinking has returned to the Reformational view as the normative one.

Ken, gone to Rotary when you asked your question. I'll get you a copy of the article by Saucy.


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## torstar

ericfromcowtown said:


> torstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TimV said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biblically divorced? I've heard and read quite a lot of the view that there is no such thing as a biblical divorce. Marriage is once and that's it while both are alive. And these are individuals that are in admired standing by denoms represented here, nobody off the deep end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Jesus and Paul were wrong, then?
Click to expand...

 

You couldn't have meant to be that crass in your response.


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## Notthemama1984

Bill The Baptist said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> The world is full of false gospels preached by false preachers who think they are called of God to deliver that "gospel." Just because you want to does not mean you should
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This only applies if your desire is to preach the true gospel.
Click to expand...


These false preachers believe that they are preaching the true gospel. I am not saying that the OP is going to preach a false gospel. I was merely showing that the quote is not really true to reality.


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## Osage Bluestem

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I don't mean to be harsh but your knowledge of the scriptures and historical Christianity seem to be very incomplete. You seem to have some knowledge concerning some theological issues but it would make me question your ability to understand a calling into the Pastorate. As far as your questioning your ability to be considered based upon your previous marriage that would have to be decided by a careful look at reasons for your wife's departure and the circumstances. And I understand that is not a fun thing to rehash. Many men desire office for various reasons. Pastoring is one of the hardest jobs on the face of the earth. It should take years of training before one enters into this vocation. This can be proven by scripture also. Nothing is prohibiting you from sharing your faith right now. Share it and lead others to Christ in the station you are at. Learn to disciple men on a daily basis. By doing this under the care of your church the men over you can evaluate your abilities and gifts. Confer with your Church Elders, Leaders, and get more acquainted with historic Christianity. Your desire is good. Grow in Grace and the knowledge of the Lord.


 
I know I'm not a theologian. I also understand that you and I have some differences of view in certain areas, but I believe I have a solid grounding in scripture and that with God's help and seminary I could do the job. I'm sure I'm not spry enough to ever pastor a big church of thousands but there are small churches in places that need a pastor who would do his best to be faithful to the word and meet their needs in Christ. I would love to do that, I just want to make sure I'm really called first before I go and spend all of the money and time on seminary. I don't care how much a church would pay. I expect it wouldn't be much but I can work two jobs as long as the Lord gives me health and stamina. I believe that if I'm really called the Lord will provide a place for me to work.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> I'm sure I'm not wise enough to ever pastor a big church of thousands but there are small churches in places that need a pastor who would do his best to be faithful to the word and meet their needs in Christ.



In my opinion, more wisdom is needed at the smaller churches vs. the megachurches. A pastor of a small church has to wear many hats, but many times the pastor of a megachurch won't.


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## Osage Bluestem

Chaplainintraining said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm sure I'm not wise enough to ever pastor a big church of thousands but there are small churches in places that need a pastor who would do his best to be faithful to the word and meet their needs in Christ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my opinion, more wisdom is needed at the smaller churches vs. the megachurches. A pastor of a small church has to wear many hats, but many times the pastor of a megachurch won't.
Click to expand...

 
Thanks. I'm sure that's true. I was just thinking about all of those people in a large church that the pastor is responsible for. I imagine it's a hard job trying to keep track of them. I changed the word to "spry."


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## KMK

torstar said:


> TimV said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biblically divorced? I've heard and read quite a lot of the view that there is no such thing as a biblical divorce. Marriage is once and that's it while both are alive. And these are individuals that are in admired standing by denoms represented here, nobody off the deep end.
Click to expand...

 


> WLC Q. 139. What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
> 
> A. The sins forbidden in the seventh commandment, besides the neglect of the duties required,[780] are, adultery, fornication,[781] rape, incest,[782] sodomy, and all unnatural lusts;[783] all unclean imaginations, thoughts, purposes, and affections;[784] all corrupt or filthy communications, or listening thereunto;[785] wanton looks,[786] impudent or light behaviour, immodest apparel;[787] prohibiting of lawful,[788] and dispensing with unlawful marriages;[789] allowing, tolerating, keeping of stews, and resorting to them;[790] entangling vows of single life,[791] undue delay of marriage,[792] having more wives or husbands than one at the same time;[793] *unjust divorce*,[794] or desertion;[795] idleness, gluttony, drunkenness,[796] unchaste company;[797] lascivious songs, books, pictures, dancings, stage plays;[798] and all other provocations to, or acts of uncleanness, either in ourselves or others.[799]



The WLC clearly implies that there are 'just' divorces.


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## ericfromcowtown

torstar said:


> ericfromcowtown said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> torstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> TimV said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why the case by case stuff if he's biblically divorced? It's like saying our sins are forgiven on case by case basis.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Biblically divorced? I've heard and read quite a lot of the view that there is no such thing as a biblical divorce. Marriage is once and that's it while both are alive. And these are individuals that are in admired standing by denoms represented here, nobody off the deep end.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> So Jesus and Paul were wrong, then?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> You couldn't have meant to be that crass in your response.
Click to expand...


Perhaps I should have worded my response differently. Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 seem pretty clear that divorce in some cases is permissible. 1 Corrinthians 7:15 also seems like a clear exception. The writers of the Westminster Confession seem to agree with me here (Chapter 24, V and VI). While I wouldn't want to appear crass, it seems that anyone who held a contrary view, if not "off the deep end," would certainly be counter-confessional (in so far as their denom held to the Westminster Confession). I plead ignorance on what, if anything, the Three Forms of Unity may say on divorce.

My apologies for helping to derail this topic, as the OP was not dealing with divorce and remarriage, but on the biblical qualifications of holding office.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> changed the word to "spry."



I think that word works much better


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## PuritanCovenanter

Bill The Baptist said:


> To say that someone cannot even consider becoming a pastor because they do not yet possess the neccesary knowledge is wrong in my opinion.



First off, reread my comment. I didn't say what you implied. 



PuritanCovenanter said:


> You seem to have some knowledge concerning some theological issues but it would make me question your ability to understand a calling into the Pastorate.



That is what I said. That is why I asked him to do what I implored in following comments and to work under the guidance of his church so they could evaluate if he had the gifts and talents. BTW, the disciples were not uneducated when they started to minister. 



Bill The Baptist said:


> I do not see this as being biblical because the men that Jesus chose to be his disciples were for the most part uneducated.



Bill, you are gravely mistaken here. The disciples were not uneducated. They spent three years or so with God the Son. Now I imagine that they had been given a great deal of education by him. 




> (Act 4:13) Now when they saw the boldness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were unlearned and ignorant men, *they* *marvelled*;* and they took knowledge of them, that they had been with Jesus.*



Also when we look at St. Paul he was a very educated man by the standards set up in their society. He was educated by Gamaliel. Even after his very pointed charge by Jesus, he still didn't set out to go do ministry right away. He went to Damascus. There he preached and grew in the faith. He went away and spent a few years growing in the faith. Also notice that Paul didn't depart Antioch without the commission of the Church. He worked under the authority of the Church still. He just didn't go off to do ministry because he was called. He worked within boundaries and learning. 

In light of all of this I would ask that you read what I said first. Don't make blind assumptions. Also go and see what I recommended. If I am wrong I will apologize and rectify. I am not always correct.


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## baron

David, since you attend a SBC and live down south no a divorced man, can not be a pastor. Down south in the SBC from what I understand they will not tolerate a divorced minister. But if you came up north they will considered you depending on the reason for divorce. I know pastors from up north who could not get a church down south due to being divorced. Some of these SBC state conventions even called up north wanting to know why divorced men are being ordained.

As far as needing to go to seminary in the SBC or most Baptist churches this is not required. I have been a messanger from my church to other churche's that ordained men who did not attend seminary. Or have degrees. The two most common ways are to have a pastor and x amount of messangers of like minded Baptist churches come together and question (test) the man. Or your church itself can license you and ordain you. There are diffrent ways to go about it.

I have know pastors that have a PHD, also pastors with no or very little education and they were very godly and effective men. Also some of the educated men I knew were not as good as the non educated men.

The one thing I have heard a lot was some Baptist men will compare themselves to C H Spurgeon or John Bunyan who were not educated at a school of higher learing. I try and remind them that they were very gifted men used by God and they should go to school.

As another poster said talk to your pastor, deacons, and your church members. This is the best place to start. They who know you best will be able to tell you if they think you are qualified for the ministry.


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## KMK

From the The Form of Presbyterial Church-Government (Westminster Standards)



> (2.) He shall be examined touching his skill in the original tongues, and his trial to be made by reading the Hebrew and Greek Testaments, and rendering some portion of some into Latin; and if he be defective in them, enquiry shall be made more strictly after his other learning, and whether he hath skill in logick and philosophy.
> 
> (3.) What authors in divinity he hath read, and is best acquainted with; and trial shall be made in his knowledge of the grounds of religion, and of his ability to defend the orthodox doctrine contained in them against all unsound and erroneous opinions, especially these of the present age; of his skill in the sense and meaning of such places of scripture as shall be proposed unto him, in cases of conscience, and in the chronology of the scripture, and the ecclesiastical history.
> 
> (5.) He shall also, within a competent time, frame a discourse in Latin upon such a common-place or controversy in divinity as shall be assigned to him, and exhibit to the presbytery such theses as express the sum thereof, and maintain a dispute upon them.



The Reformed view is that a minister of the word should be educated. Whether that education comes by way of a seminary is a different discussion.


----------



## TimV

PuritanCovenanter said:


> This isn't about forgiveness of sin Tim. And I think you know that. It isn't like saying our sins are forgiven on a case by case basis. This doesn't have anything to do with forgiveness of sin or sins. It has to do with qualifying for something. You do admit there are qualifications right?



Of course there are qualifications. And of one of them means more than one wife (not at the same time) then someone who's wife died can't be qualified. Like Jessi said, a biblical divorce is like whether the man needs glasses, or has thinning hair.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

TimV said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> This isn't about forgiveness of sin Tim. And I think you know that. It isn't like saying our sins are forgiven on a case by case basis. This doesn't have anything to do with forgiveness of sin or sins. It has to do with qualifying for something. You do admit there are qualifications right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Of course there are qualifications. And of one of them means more than one wife (not at the same time) then someone who's wife died can't be qualified. Like Jessi said, a biblical divorce is like whether the man needs glasses, or has thinning hair.
Click to expand...


Tim, You ought to know what I am saying. You need to read through the thread. I was addressing your first comment. You have rabbit trailed. I addressed your accusation. You made a false pretense in bringing in the forgiveness issue. Now you are taking it a step farther and ignored that I said that I agreed with the WCF in this thread.


----------



## Bill The Baptist

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Bill, you are gravely mistaken here. The disciples were not uneducated. They spent three years or so with God the Son. Now I imagine that they had been given a great deal of education by him.



Yes, that is the point. They were involved in the ultimate internship program, but when He first chose them, they were uneducated. Whether it was intentional or not, your post came across as saying that someone without sufficient theological knowledge is not qualified to discern a calling in their own life.


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion

Osage Bluestem said:


> I know I'm not a theologian. I also understand that you and I have some differences of view in certain areas, but I believe I have a solid grounding in scripture and that with God's help and seminary I could do the job. I'm sure I'm not spry enough to ever pastor a big church of thousands but there are small churches in places that need a pastor who would do his best to be faithful to the word and meet their needs in Christ. I would love to do that, I just want to make sure I'm really called first before I go and spend all of the money and time on seminary. I don't care how much a church would pay. I expect it wouldn't be much but I can work two jobs as long as the Lord gives me health and stamina. I believe that if I'm really called the Lord will provide a place for me to work.


The key message in PC's post was that the church determines the validity of your calling. You do not do it all by yourself. Place yourself under the care of the leaders in your church and let the process work under the providential care of God. Your sig indicates your church is Confessional, so there is a process in place, based upon Scripture, that must be allowed to work here. That process includes the determination that seminary would be a proper course of action for you.

AMR


----------



## Splinters

*Matthew 5:32 and divorce...*

Well, here I go...my first post (and after the arbiters of this fine establishment read it, maybe my last!) Most guys go to the "Introduce Yourself Forum" and exchange civil dialog, get to know a few people. Am I doing that? Noooo....I have to open my big yap and insert my foot here! Ah well...nothing ventured.

I always get a little uncomfortable when I see people using Matthew 5:32 as a proof text for permissible divorce. I'm not saying that there aren't texts upon which such a claim can be made, I've just never read this text that way. Let me explain my thinking and THEN you can grab the pitchforks and flaming paraphernalia. 

*32 But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery. 

Matthew 5:32 (ESV)
*
Now, I don't read anywhere in this text where Jesus says, "If you divorce for reasons other than infidelity, then you've sinned big time!" Nor do I read him saying, "As long as the divorce was based on her infidelity, then you're just fine!" I don't read Jesus qualifying or sanctioning any method, means or reason for divorce whatsoever.

Rather, he says, " everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery."

What happens to the person who divorces on the grounds of adultery? Jesus doesn't say. He certainly doesn't approve of it or give sanction for it in this text. He only says that if you *do* divorce for any reason *other* then adultery, you will cause her to become an adulteress...shame on you.

Jesus may be saying, "Divorce is wrong in all cases...and to make matters worse, if you divorce her for reasons other than adultery, you _add _to your sin by making her an adulteress"

Jesus never sanctions any form of divorce in this passage. He only illuminates the consequences for divorcing without a specific qualifier; namely, adultery. Based on the other five antithesis in this section of the sermon, it's hard to imagine Jesus validating any form of behavior that would give the believer the aroma of the world.

Am I saying adultery is not a valid reason for divorce? Nope. I'm just saying I don't think Matthew 5:32 is the silver bullet for that werewolf.

Maybe I'm parsing the text too closely?! I'm teachable. 

[hastily dons asbestos suit] 

Oh by the way...Hi! My name is Cliff.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Bill The Baptist said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> Bill, you are gravely mistaken here. The disciples were not uneducated. They spent three years or so with God the Son. Now I imagine that they had been given a great deal of education by him.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, that is the point. They were involved in the ultimate internship program, but when He first chose them, they were uneducated. Whether it was intentional or not, your post came across as saying that someone without sufficient theological knowledge is not qualified to discern a calling in their own life.
Click to expand...


Bill,
I know you are new here. Please, read things more carefully. Words mean things. Even the disciples had no idea what they were being called into and for what Christ called them for. Please read me a bit more charitably. And read the words I write. Don't read what you think I am saying. Read what I am saying and read it in full context please. Words mean things. 



PuritanCovenanter said:


> Originally Posted by PuritanCovenanter
> You seem to have some knowledge concerning some theological issues but it would make me question your ability to understand a calling into the Pastorate.



I said it would make me question one's ability to understand a calling into the Pastorate. Many people* feel *called. And they really don't understand what a calling into the Pastorate is. Let alone do they understand the Pastorate. I have been around good Pastors and many poor Pastors for 30 years now. I have seen many people who thought they were called and were not. I even felt called at one time to the Pastorate only to realize I had a zeal for God's work. I wasn't called for Church office. I have discipled many who have been called into it. Bless the Lord for his work. And I also bless him for making me know I wasn't. I would have ruined many lives most likely. 

So now let me conclude this. I do believe that it is important for someone with theological blindness to get input from their Elders concerning a calling upon their life. I do not believe theological neophytes are fully capable of discerning their callings. I was a Christian for fifteen years and had a pretty good knowledge of the scriptures and felt called into the Pastorate. Boy was I mistaken. I was confusing my desire and love for ministering to people with a calling. I was confusing my gifts and talents and sign of fruit with a calling. I was already doing just what the Lord had me doing and that is sufficient. Aspiring toward a church office is a good thing. But a calling into the ministry of Pastorate is very complicated. 

Just as a side note I want to plant this here. It isn't necessarily relevant to this discussion but I love this. 



> Just a quote from J. I. Packer that will be relevant for generations.
> 
> 
> Leadership
> 
> What do we Christians chiefly value in our leaders, our preachers, teachers, pastors, writers, televangelists, top people in parachurch ministries, money-men who bankroll churches and other Christian enterprises, and other folk with key roles in our set-up? The answer seems to be not their holiness, but their gifts and skills and resources. The number of North American leaders (and other Christians too) who in recent years have been found guilty of sexual and financial shenanigans, and who when challenged have declined to see themselves as accountable to any part of the body of Christ, is startling. Much more startling is the way in which, after public exposure and some few slaps on the wrist, they are soon able to resume their ministry and carry on as if nothing had happened, commanding apparently as much support as before. To protest that Christians believe in the forgiveness of sins and the restoration of sinners is beside the point. What I am saying is that the speed of their reinstatement shows that we value them more for their proven gifts than for their proven sanctity, since the thought that only holy people are likely to be spiritually useful does not loom large in our minds.
> 
> More than a century and a half ago, the Scottish parish minister and revival preacher Robert Murray M'Cheyne declared: “My people’s greatest need is my personal holiness.” It seems clear that neither modern clergy nor their modern flocks would agree with M'Cheyne’s assessment. In the past when your church has appointed a calling committee to hunt for the next pastor, I am sure that a very adequate profile of required gifts has been drawn up, but how much emphasis has been laid on the crucial need to find a holy man? Shall I guess?
> 
> Rediscovering Holiness pp. 33,34



P.S. Thanks AMR. I agree with AMR!


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Welcome to the Board Pastor Schroeder. 
Please add a signature to your profile. You can find the requirements by clicking the link here. http://www.puritanboard.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_signaturereqtsfaq

There is no need for an asbestos suit. lol. 

I am a Covenantal Baptist theologically. 

I don't think anyone on this thread mentioned Matthew 5:32. The references being used are from Matthew 19 and probably 1 Corinthians 7. Even Deuteronomy 24 might be used in my estimation. 

Welcome to the Puritanboard Pastor.


----------



## Bill The Baptist

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I know you are new here. Please, read things more carefully. Words mean things



I understood what you meant, and I agree with you. A man must absolutely seek the counsel of his pastor and elders to help discern if he is really called into the ministry. That is why every seminary requires a pastoral and church recommendation before accepting anyone. I was simply pointing out that you started your post by questioning his theological and historical knowledge, and that comes across as implying that these things are prerequisite to a calling. You did an excellent job in the remainder of your post of explaining the fullness of your position, but I just thought that the beginning was a little harsh.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter

Bill The Baptist said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know you are new here. Please, read things more carefully. Words mean things
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I understood what you meant, and I agree with you. A man must absolutely seek the counsel of his pastor and elders to help discern if he is really called into the ministry. That is why every seminary requires a pastoral and church recommendation before accepting anyone. I was simply pointing out that you started your post by questioning his theological and historical knowledge, and that comes across as implying that these things are prerequisite to a calling. You did an excellent job in the remainder of your post of explaining the fullness of your position, but I just thought that the beginning was a little harsh.
Click to expand...


Bill, It was meant to be an awakening statement. You might take it as harsh. But you accused me of saying something I didn't. That is why I responded to you the way I did. Please be more careful about how you feel something is said and what you feel is being said. 



> Originally Posted by Bill The Baptist
> To say that someone cannot even consider becoming a pastor because they do not yet possess the neccesary knowledge is wrong in my opinion.



I did not say this.


----------



## Bill The Baptist

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I did not say this.



You are correct, you did not say that and I apologize for putting words in your mouth. And I agree that anyone who thinks they are called to go into pastoral ministry should taike a really hard look at themselves and see whether or not they are biblically qualified. I also know from experience that anyone who is thinking of going to seminary should also take a hard look at whether or not this is the right choice for them. Seminary is a difficult and often discouraging experience. I also agree that sometimes people need to be awakened, I would just probably take a softer approach. But then again, sometimes people need tough love, but hopefully his pastor and elders would provide that if needed.


----------



## TimV

Splinters said:


> What happens to the person who divorces on the grounds of adultery? Jesus doesn't say.



And He didn't say whether or not you could marry your sister, or a yak. He didn't have to. The Bible starts in Genesis. Everyone who heard the sermon knew the Law.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> I know I'm not a theologian. I also understand that you and I have some differences of view in certain areas, but I believe I have a solid grounding in scripture and that with God's help and seminary I could do the job. I'm sure I'm not spry enough to ever pastor a big church of thousands but there are small churches in places that need a pastor who would do his best to be faithful to the word and meet their needs in Christ. I would love to do that, I just want to make sure I'm really called first before I go and spend all of the money and time on seminary. I don't care how much a church would pay. I expect it wouldn't be much but I can work two jobs as long as the Lord gives me health and stamina. I believe that if I'm really called the Lord will provide a place for me to work.
> 
> 
> 
> The key message in PC's post was that the church determines the validity of your calling. You do not do it all by yourself. Place yourself under the care of the leaders in your church and let the process work under the providential care of God. Your sig indicates your church is Confessional, so there is a process in place, based upon Scripture, that must be allowed to work here. That process includes the determination that seminary would be a proper course of action for you.
> 
> AMR
Click to expand...


Thanks. Regarding my sig, I agree with the LBCF. My church however, is an SBC church the only "confession" is the Baptist Fatih and Message. I have emailed my pastor. He hasn't responded yet. I'll see him tonight maybe I'll have a chance to talk to him.


----------



## Splinters

Thank you for the welcome Mr. Snyder! I've been lurking a little while and thought it was time to wade into the fray. 

I should have used the quote feature so it didn't seem as if my reference to Matt 5:32 was out of thin air. This is one reference that was made and I think there was at least one other. 



ericfromcowtown said:


> Perhaps I should have worded my response differently. Matthew 5:32 and 19:9 seem pretty clear that divorce in some cases is permissible.



It's not a huge deal...I'm probably being too pedantic.  

Thanks again for the welcome and the permission to remove the asbestos suit!


----------



## Edward

baron said:


> David, since you attend a SBC and live down south no a divorced man, can not be a pastor. Down south in the SBC from what I understand they will not tolerate a divorced minister.



Not even close to accurate. 
Ever hear of Charles Stanley (First Baptist Church, Atlanta, GA?)

And here's a discussion from the Alabama Baptist:

http://www.thealabamabaptist.org/print-edition-article-detail.php?id_art=10705&pricat_art=4

("The Alabama Baptist is an entity of the state convention owned and operated by a 16-member board of directors elected by the state convention.")


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion

Osage Bluestem said:


> Thanks. Regarding my sig, I agree with the LBCF. My church however, is an SBC church the only "confession" is the Baptist Fatih and Message. I have emailed my pastor. He hasn't responded yet. I'll see him tonight maybe I'll have a chance to talk to him.


So do you think your calling is to the pastorate in the SBC?

AMR


----------



## MountainSmith

I think every examination of a man who senses a call to ministry is case-by-case and should take various things into account. This would be one matter that would be considered, as others have said. I'm glad to hear that it could be considered and not simply excluded. A friend years ago was accepted to seminary, spent 4 or more years in school, supporting a steadily growing family...and then the church (SBC) and association refused him for ordination because _his wife_ had been married then divorced years before either was converted. That said, those who God uses to confirm your call to ministry will probably have more personal advice and insight than those of us here who do not know you personally, do.. Talk to one or more of them.

In any case, pray for wisdom and confirmation of the call, including understanding just what kind of ministry? I agree with others who have said that there are many opportunities to be involved in ministry other than the pastorate. First off, there are bound to be abundant lay ministry opportunities. You might explore teaching Sunday School, involvement in local missions, or (though the requirements for offices in the church all include the husband of one wife requirement) the offices of ruling elder or deacon.

On a related tangent to the question, what are people's thoughts on a never-married (yet?) man being qualified for offices of Deacon, RE, or TE based on the "husband of one wife" requirement?


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Regarding my sig, I agree with the LBCF. My church however, is an SBC church the only "confession" is the Baptist Fatih and Message. I have emailed my pastor. He hasn't responded yet. I'll see him tonight maybe I'll have a chance to talk to him.
> 
> 
> 
> So do you think your calling is to the pastorate in the SBC?
> 
> AMR
Click to expand...

 
I don't know if I am called to pastor or not. I want to be called to pastor. I would really love that, but I have no idea if I am actually called or not. But denominationally I am Baptist. I support the SBC because of their doctrine and emphasis on evangelism. I also grew up in the SBC and have come full circle in my spiritual journey back to where I started. I believe that is God at work in my life.


----------



## Notthemama1984

Edward said:


> baron said:
> 
> 
> 
> David, since you attend a SBC and live down south no a divorced man, can not be a pastor. Down south in the SBC from what I understand they will not tolerate a divorced minister.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not even close to accurate.
> Ever hear of Charles Stanley (First Baptist Church, Atlanta, GA?)
> 
> And here's a discussion from the Alabama Baptist:
> 
> The Alabama Baptist - A Resource for Christian Living
> 
> ("The Alabama Baptist is an entity of the state convention owned and operated by a 16-member board of directors elected by the state convention.")
Click to expand...

 
These men may allow it, but everywhere I have been in TX won't. I know a pastor who intentionally hides his previous marriage in order to secure a pastorate (I am not advocating his actions, just showing how divorce is viewed around here).


----------



## Splinters

TimV said:


> Splinters said:
> 
> 
> 
> What happens to the person who divorces on the grounds of adultery? Jesus doesn't say.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And He didn't say whether or not you could marry your sister, or a yak. He didn't have to. The Bible starts in Genesis. Everyone who heard the sermon knew the Law.
Click to expand...

 
You are absolutely right Tim. However, I tried to make it clear in my post that I was addressing Jesus' words found in Matthew 5:32; the whole council of God was not in view.


----------



## Edward

Chaplainintraining said:


> These men may allow it, but everywhere I have been in TX won't. I



He doesn't have a church, but Joel Gregory (pastor at FBC Dallas prior to his divorce) got back to preaching. 

Whatever happened to Joel Gregory | Lubbock Online | Lubbock Avalanche-Journal

And here's one from 2001:

_Western Hills called McLaughlin, divorced and still single, as pastor late last year, after more than two years of soul-searching without a pastor.

Pastor, church find redemption through relationship

I expect it would be easier in a BGCT SBC church than in a SBT SBC church.


----------



## Notthemama1984

Even though I grew up in the SBC in TX. I can never remember the difference between the BGCT and the SBT.


----------



## nicnap

Splinters said:


> You are absolutely right Tim. However, I tried to make it clear in my post that I was addressing Jesus' words found in Matthew 5:32; the whole council of God was not in view.



Right ... but you can't just rip them out of context either; everything that Christ said, even _that_ was in light of what had been revealed. It is all His Word, so in what He said, the whole counsel of God would be in view.


...and now back to just


----------



## Edward

Chaplainintraining said:


> I can never remember the difference between the BGCT and the SBT.



Baptist General Convention of Texas are the old, established, mainliners. Big tent folks, to use political terminology. Supportive of Baylor as it is now. But they have limits, and I think they parted ways with the homosexual friendly church in Fort Worth. 

Southern Baptists of Texas are newer, smaller, and more in line with the current SBC. Certainly more conservative. 

And the Cooperatives are the liberals. 

Of course, all of this being voluntary, a church can affiliate with more than one of the above.


----------



## Notthemama1984

I asked my pastor once who we were affiliated with. His response was, "Whoever can provide pulpit supply while I am on vacation."

The SBT split because of Baylor correct?


----------



## Edward

Chaplainintraining said:


> The SBT split because of Baylor correct?



One of the reasons, but not the primary one. My (dim) recollection was that it had to do with the conservative shift of the SBC and the adoption of the Baptist Faith and Message. Those that established SBT felt that they were more in line with the new direction of the SBC; the BGCT was more aligned with the old polity. Texas and North Carolina were among the more broad minded state conventions, and the SBTers thought that they were too tolerant. (BGCT was slow to move on Broadway, as I recall). To some extent, Baylor (and the on campus dance!!) was a symptom, not the problem.


Edit:

It looks like the SBT was chartered a couple of years before the Faith and Message was adopted, so my timeline was a little off, but I still think there was some relationship there.


----------



## baron

Edward said:


> Not even close to accurate.
> Ever hear of Charles Stanley (First Baptist Church, Atlanta, GA?)



You are right since each Baptist church is independent they can do what ever they want. 

Yes I have heard of Charles Stanley. If my memory is right he was divorced around 2000-1. He served two terms as the president of the SBC in the 1980. I also think he even said if he was to divorce that he would step down as pastor of his church. I could be wrong my memory fails me at times. Also I think even his son said he should step down after his divorce. But as big name preacher's go and the money they bring in people will over look this. If you are not a big name preacher bringing in a lot of money well your in a diffrent boat. I have heard preachers make statements about divorce and when it happens they sure change their mind. As I stated I know godly divorced men who moved down south, they can't even teach Sunday school in SBC churches. Maybe they are not trying hard enough.


----------



## Osage Bluestem

Edward said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> The SBT split because of Baylor correct?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One of the reasons, but not the primary one. My (dim) recollection was that it had to do with the conservative shift of the SBC and the adoption of the Baptist Faith and Message. Those that established SBT felt that they were more in line with the new direction of the SBC; the BGCT was more aligned with the old polity. Texas and North Carolina were among the more broad minded state conventions, and the SBTers thought that they were too tolerant. (BGCT was slow to move on Broadway, as I recall). To some extent, Baylor (and the on campus dance!!) was a symptom, not the problem.
Click to expand...

 
I will always be conservative. I will always believe in biblical inerrancy. That is a hill to die on for me. So, I will only be a member of a local church that shares those views. I will only support a denominaton that supports those views as well. I am vehemently opposed to liberalism in the church. I hate it. I think it's the work of the devil.


----------



## Splinters

nicnap said:


> Splinters said:
> 
> 
> 
> You are absolutely right Tim. However, I tried to make it clear in my post that I was addressing Jesus' words found in Matthew 5:32; the whole council of God was not in view.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Right ... but you can't just rip them out of context either; everything that Christ said, even _that_ was in light of what had been revealed. It is all His Word, so in what He said, the whole counsel of God would be in view.
> 
> 
> ...and now back to just
Click to expand...

 
I agree 100%. Where exactly did I rip anything out of context? I was adjuring those who _try and remove _ (ie "rip them out of context") a verse from the trajectory of the full counsel of God to put it back. Nowhere did I claim that this single verse proves or disproves anything. I made no claims regarding its didactic whatsoever. Rather, I was saying that you cannot take this single verse and exegete a teaching that qualifies divorce based on adultery.

Why do I feel like I'm having to defend myself against people who I agree with?


----------



## James Swan

This doesn't answer your question, but recently I've tried to discern what my own denomination holds on the issue of divorce and remarriage. I belong to the URC. I was instructed by a fairly well known URC person that if I wanted to understand the URC on divorce and remarriage, I needed to study the history of the CRC, which I then did:

Divorce and Remarriage in the United Reformed Church?

Each Reformed denomination has it's own baggage on this issue. It's best to sort through where your particular church / denomination has been and where they are now. With the URC, there's still an underlying CRC mindset operating, so even though the URC doesn't have a stated position, they still sort of have one based on the older CRC one.

Debating the Biblical materials concerning divorce & remarriage cross-denominationally may be interesting, but if I were you, I'd stick to discerning what your particular church / denomination holds on the issue, and use this to explore your possible call.


----------



## he beholds

A related question:
What would happen to an already-pastor who was cheated on and then divorced by his wife? Would most churches give him the boot?


----------



## Osage Bluestem

he beholds said:


> A related question:
> What would happen to an already-pastor who was cheated on and then divorced by his wife? Would most churches give him the boot?


 
I believe a good number of them would indeed give him the boot. I think that it causes scandal in many churches even though the man is biblically divorced. So it is a difficult issue. Divorce isn't good. God hates it. So many congregations do not want a man leading them who has been exposed to it. Some believe that divorce regardless of reason is a sign from God that a man isn't qualified. That is why I'm trying to hash out that issue first before I advance in discerning a call. If that position is indeed true then I have no business trying to discern a call. If it isn't true and is just man made legalism then I will advance and move into another area of discernement. 

I emailed my pastor he didn't respond but I spoke with him on Wednesday and he said to set up an appointment and he will speak with me about it. I called the church office and the lady that sets up his appointments was sick so I left a message. No one has called back yet. If I don't hear anything by this afternoon I'll try to call back. I'd like to meet with him soon because this is on my mind. He's very busy because our church is very large.


----------



## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> I emailed my pastor he didn't respond but I spoke with him on Wednesday and he said to set up an appointment and he will speak with me about it. I called the church office and the lady that sets up his appointments was sick so I left a message. No one has called back yet. If I don't hear anything by this afternoon I'll try to call back. I'd like to meet with him soon because this is on my mind. He's very busy because our church is very large.



This is just me, but even if you are called you will not be starting seminary next week or getting ordained in a month or anything else right away. I would take some time and pray about everything. If you can't get in to see your pastor for a few weeks, that is God providing more time for you to pray about everything prior to talking to your pastor.


----------



## Edward

Osage Bluestem said:


> So, I will only be a member of a local church that shares those views.



Your church seems a bit shy about its affiliations. I couldn't seem to locate that info on their website. They are shown on the conservative Southern Baptists of Texas Convention website. I couldn't get the directory on the BGCT site to work, so I don't know if they are dual.

---------- Post added at 07:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:08 PM ----------




he beholds said:


> What would happen to an already-pastor who was cheated on and then divorced by his wife? Would most churches give him the boot?



I would think most would. But I know of one who fits that category who retained his position and was later called to a significant pulpit in the PCA.


----------



## James Swan

Osage Bluestem said:


> However, he stressed I would need to graduate from seminary first and that would be expensive. I don't have a lot of money. If I went to seminary I would have to go at night and find a way to pay for it because I have a wife and three kids. She stays home to nurture the children and I am the provider. In my job I am in charge of a technical department for a security products manufacturer. My title is solutions engineer.



This is just to encourage you: I'm currently taking classes via a well-respected Reformed Seminary via distance, and they do not have a distance program. This came about after much prayer and discussion with my Pastor and the Seminary. 

There are seminaries that have good distance programs in place, like RTS. Of course, the ideal is to attend seminary in person, but at least beginning via distance could get you started. You could always try one class, and see how it goes with your other responsibilites.


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## Notthemama1984

Osage Bluestem said:


> Some believe that divorce regardless of reason is a sign from God that a man isn't qualified.



Some people think that if you have not spoken in tongues, you are not qualified. 

I would not worry about what certain churches do or do not think. I would worry more about what God's calling is.


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## Damon Rambo

Brother, I see that you are not only Baptist, but SBC. I must warn you that a large number of churches would consider you disqualified. Some even say that I am disqualified, because my _wife_ is divorced (not only did the man cheat on her, this 25 year old man, who married her when she was 16, used to beat her severely), even though I never have been. 

So just be ready for some very pointed (and often very RUDE) questions!


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## KMK

Bill and David, are you sure you want to post this kind of info on a public forum? If so, PM me and I will 'undelete'.


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## Osage Bluestem

KMK said:


> Damon, Bill and David, are you sure you want to post this kind of info on a public forum? If so, PM me and I will 'undelete'.


 
How about we just ask this question.

Is a biblically divorced man who is married to a biblically divorced woman disqualified from serving in the pastorate based on that situation?


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## Esther W.

It is apparent to me that the WCF teaches that a man could seek the pulpit if he is heavenly called. Since, unrepentant adultery, is equal to the offending person being dead thus restoring the offended party to that of a widower? 

Chapter 24:5 of the WCF

5. Adultery or fornication, committed after a contract, being detected before marriage, giveth just occasion to the innocent party to dissolve that contract.a In the case of adultery after marriage, it is lawful for the innocent party to sue out a divorce,b and after the divorce to marry another, as if the offending party were dead.c
_
a._ Mat 1:18-20. • _b._ Mat 5:31-32. • _c._ Mat 19:9; Rom 7:2-3.


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