# Revelation 1:4-5, possible Trinitarian Reference?



## RamistThomist (Jan 23, 2006)

> Grace to you and peace from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the Kings of the earth



Are the seven spirits a poetic reference to the Holy Spirit?


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## Puritanhead (Jan 23, 2006)

1:4 states that the seven spirits are before God's throne. 3:1 indicates that Jesus Christ "holds" the seven spirits of God. 4:5 correlates the seven spirits of God with seven burning lamps that are before God's throne. 5:6 identifies the seven spirits with the "seven eyes" of the Lamb and states that they are "sent out into all the earth."


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## Puritanhead (Jan 23, 2006)

Other than that, I don't really know. I'd like to say something smart, but I fess up that its something I just read through... and never meditate on before. Glad you brought it up.

On the surface it seems, the number Seven is symbolic of completion... and perhaps conveys the fullness of God through the Spirit. But I am not sure how dogmatic we can be here.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 23, 2006)

The "seven spirits" is not likely a reference to the Third Person of the Trinity... but so what? Since when do we require exegetical conclusiveness to make theologically rich allusions?


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## Saiph (Jan 23, 2006)

I disagree Ben. It most emphatically is a reference to the Holy Spirit being complete and deity.



Isaiah 11:2 
"And the Spirit *of the LORD* shall rest upon him, the spirit of *wisdom* and *understanding*, the spirit of *counsel* and *might*, the spirit of *knowledge* and of the *fear of the LORD*."

Here the seven aspects of the Holy Spirit are defined: The first is who He is [The Spirit of the LORD], while aspects 2 - 7 are what He is.

Of the LORD = eternal (I AM), and the following speak of omniscience (wisdom, understanding, knowledge) , omnipotence (might), omnipresence (counsel) and holiness (fear of the LORD).

[Edited on 1-23-2006 by Saiph]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 23, 2006)

Matthew Henry's commentary on Revelation (completed by William Tong) says:



> 2. Whence this blessing is to come. In whose name does the apostle bless the churches? In the name of God, of the whole Trinity; for this is an act of adoration, and God only is the proper object of it; his ministers must bless the people in no name but his alone. And here, (1.) The Father is first named: God the Father, which may be taken either essentially, for God as God, or personally, for the first person in the ever-blessed Trinity, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ; and he is described as the Jehovah who is, and who was, and who is to come, eternal, unchangeable, the same to the Old-Testament church which was, and to the New-Testament church which is, and who will be the same to the church triumphant which is to come. (2.) The Holy Spirit, called the seven spirits, not seven in number, nor in nature, but the infinite perfect Spirit of God, in whom there is a diversity of gifts and operations. He is before the throne; for, as God made, so he governs, all things by his Spirit. (3.) The Lord Jesus Christ. He mentions him after the Spirit, because he intended to enlarge more upon the person of Christ, as God manifested in the flesh, whom he had seen dwelling on earth before, and now saw again in a glorious form. Observe the particular account we have here of Christ, v. 5.


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## Puritanhead (Jan 23, 2006)

I like what Matthew Henry says...

I do think it is indeed the Holy Spirit reference therein... Likewise, I do not think it is a coincidence that Isaiah 11:2 has seven appellations for the Spirits, which represents the Holy Spirit in fullness.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 23, 2006)

Sheer spiritualized speculation.

But then again, like I said... "Since when do we require exegetical conclusiveness to make theologically rich allusions?"


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 23, 2006)

Horatius Bonar:



> And from the seven Spirits who are before His throne. This must mean the Holy Spirit in His sevenfold completeness and fullness"”this sevenfold fullness corresponding with the seven Churches, and intimidating the manifold abundance of the gifts which flow out of Him to the whole Church of God.
> 
> From this storehouse are dispensed the 'gifts of the Holy Spirit,' which Christ has received for men. These seven Spirits are 'before the throne of God;' and from that throne they issue forth like 'the pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding from the throne of God, and of the Lamb.' The Holy Spirit is 'the promise of the Father;' and He comes in His fullness, from His throne, the seat of all authority and power.



John MacDuff:



> The HOLY SPIRIT is described in the plenitude of His gifts and graces, under the sevenfold symbol of perfection"”'like the seven prismatic colors in the one ray of light;' "the seven spirits who are before His throne." And inverting the customary order of enumeration, he closes with the more lengthened adoration of the Divine SON.



Jamieson Fausset & Brown:



> The Holy Spirit is called the seven spirits, the perfect Spirit of God, in whom there is a diversity of gifts and operations.



John Gill:



> ...in which grace and peace are wished for them, from God the Father, from the Holy Spirit, and from Jesus Christ; who is described by characters expressing his prophetic, priestly, and kingly offices, and by the benefits, favours, and honours bestowed by him on his people, to whom a doxology or ascription of glory is made, Revelation 1:4;


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## Saiph (Jan 23, 2006)

Thanks Andrew.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 23, 2006)

An example of why older is not always better. The textual rationale behind this Trinitarian understanding is distinctly NONEXISTENT.

A much more exegetically based understanding:
John's grace and peace formula has sometimes been described as trinitarian, centering on Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is possible if "the seven spirits of God that are before his throne" (compare 4:5) are understood as a peculiar way of referring to "the Spirit of God in the fulness of his activity and power" (Caird 1966:15). Yet John is quite capable of referring to "the Spirit" in the singular when he wishes to do so (2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17). Referring to the seven spirits is probably a way of underscoring the majesty of God, as in 4:5, where they stand as John's explanation of "seven lamps" of fire blazing before the throne, or in 5:6, where they are identified with the seven eyes of the Lamb (Jesus Christ), and are said to be "sent out into all the earth" (see also 3:2). These texts suggest that the seven spirits have no identity distinct from God or Christ, whether as a source of prophecy or a means of worship.


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## Saiph (Jan 23, 2006)

Ben, there is some merit to the alternate exegesis you are proffering. No one is denying it. Pneuma has other generic meanings. But to say the one offered by Henry and others is poor scholarship, regarding something obtuse to begin with, and received in a prophetic text, is a bit arrogant I think.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 23, 2006)

1599 Geneva Bible:



> (c) These three, Is, Was, and Shall be, signify the word Jehovah, which is the proper name for God. (4) That is, from the Holy Spirit who proceeds from the Father and the Son. This Spirit is one in person according to his subsistence: but in communication of his power, and in demonstration of his divine works in those seven churches, perfectly manifests himself as if there were many spirits, every one perfectly working in his own church. Which is why in (Revelation 5:6) they are called the seven horns and seven eyes of the Lamb, as if to say, as his most absolute power and wisdom. In (Revelation 3:1) Christ is said to have those seven spirits of God, and in (Revelation 4:5) it is said that seven lamps burn before his throne, which also are those seven spirits of God. That this place ought to be so understood, it is thus proved. For first, grace and peace is asked by prayer from this Spirit, which is a divine work, and an action incommunicable in respect to God. Secondly, he is placed between the Father and the Son, as set in the same degree of dignity and operation with them, besides, he is before the throne, as of the same substance with the Father and the Son: as the seven eyes and seven horns of the Lamb. Moreover, these spirits are never said to adore God, as all other things are. Finally, this is the power by which the Lamb opened the book, and loosed the seven seals of it, when no one could be found among all creatures by whom the book might be opened (Revelation 5:1-10); Of these things long ago Master John Luide of Oxford wrote to me. Now the Holy Spirit is named before Christ because a long speech about Christ follows.



John Wesley:



> From him who is, and who was, and who cometh, or, who is to come - A wonderful translation of the great name JEHOVAH: he was of old, he is now, he cometh; that is, will be for ever. And from the seven spirits which are before his throne - Christ is he who "hath the seven spirits of God." "The seven lamps which burn before the throne are the seven spirits of God." " The lamb hath seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God." Seven was a sacred number in the Jewish church: but it did not always imply a precise number. It sometimes is to be taken figuratively, to denote completeness or perfection. By these seven spirits, not seven created angels, but the Holy Ghost is to be understood. The angels are never termed spirits in this book; and when all the angels stand up, while the four living creatures and the four and twenty elders worship him that sitteth on the throne, and the Lamb, the seven spirits neither stand up nor worship. To these "seven spirits of God," the seven churches, to whom the Spirit speaks so many things, are subordinate; as are also their angels, yea, and "the seven angels which stand before God." He is called the seven spirits, not with regard to his essence, which is one, but with regard to his manifold operations.


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## Saiph (Jan 23, 2006)

> This synoptic comparison of salutations in early Christian letters reveals that the phrase "œgrace to you and peace" in the first part of the salutation in Rev 1:4"“5a is typical of Pauline and some Deutero-Pauline letters (Ephesians, Colossians, 2 Thessalonians, Titus). However, Rev 1:4"“5c is distinctive because it mentions no fewer than three divine sources of grace and peace:
> 
> from the one who is and who was and who is coming
> and from the seven spirits which are before his throne
> ...



[Edited on 1-23-2006 by Saiph]


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## RamistThomist (Jan 23, 2006)

That's interesting, gentleman, but here is the reason I am leaning towards it. It parallels Paul's Trinitarian language in 2 Cor. 13:14: May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of GOd, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with y'all.

Now, we don't have the specific reference to the Holy Ghost in Revelation, but the language is eerily similar. No, it isn't incontrovertible evidence of the Trinity, per se, but in the context of a Trinitarian worldview, it is telling.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> Ben, there is some merit to the alternate exegesis you are proffering. No one is denying it. Pneuma has other generic meanings. But to say the one offered by Henry and others is poor scholarship, regarding something obtuse to begin with, and received in a prophetic text, is a bit arrogant I think.



Mark, (and Andrew) you are right. Please forgive me for being ungracious to those with whom I disagree.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> An example of why older is not always better. The textual rationale behind this Trinitarian understanding is distinctly NONEXISTENT.
> 
> A much more exegetically based understanding:
> John's grace and peace formula has sometimes been described as trinitarian, centering on Father, Son and Holy Spirit. This is possible if "the seven spirits of God that are before his throne" (compare 4:5) are understood as a peculiar way of referring to "the Spirit of God in the fulness of his activity and power" (Caird 1966:15). Yet John is quite capable of referring to "the Spirit" in the singular when he wishes to do so (2:7, 11, 17, 29; 3:6, 13, 22; 14:13; 22:17). Referring to the seven spirits is probably a way of underscoring the majesty of God, as in 4:5, where they stand as John's explanation of "seven lamps" of fire blazing before the throne, or in 5:6, where they are identified with the seven eyes of the Lamb (Jesus Christ), and are said to be "sent out into all the earth" (see also 3:2). These texts suggest that the seven spirits have no identity distinct from God or Christ, whether as a source of prophecy or a means of worship.



Ben,

Where is the quote from? I am genuinely interested, not trying to make a point either way. Personally, I think either interpretation has merit.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 23, 2006)

Fred, it is from the IVP Revelation commentary (sorry, I don't know who the author is, so it could be a raving lunatic... but the interpretation seems to be more likely than the Trinitarian reading.

I just followed the link from Monergism's site...


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 23, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Saiph_
> ...



Thanks, Ben.


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