# The baptism of my son Noah, and of small children in general



## Pergamum (Nov 9, 2010)

I rejoice to report the following: 

My 6-year old son, Noah, is now professing faith in Christ and is asking for baptism. 

This has been uncoached by us and we have actually taken a skeptical approach and have asked him to think hard and question everything. 

However, Noah knows who Jesus is, he knows the basic doctrines of the Trinity, the God-Man-ness of Jesus and the bible doctrines of sin, atonement and salvation. He prays for forgiveness for his sins, tells us that he loves and believes in Jesus and says that our purpose in life is to love God and serve him. He knows and understands much of the catechisms. On one occasion when I asked him about how someone can know they are saved, he responded that we love Jesus because He first loved us and died for him (Noah) to suffer for his sins so that Noah would not have to, and that we love God and thus love others and ought to be ready even to die for others because Jesus died for us. In short, Noah seems to give some solid answers.

Noah now desires baptism. He is asking for it.

So, I need your counsel. 

*Here is my present situation:*

At present I am away from my sending church and trying to plant a church among a remote tribal people. 

I am ordained and sent out by my sending church with the commission to establish new churches among the unreached.

There are also several tribal youth whom we are checking in their understanding and might consider baptising 3 of them this next year... they also appear to believe. 

However, among children and tribals it is hard to determine whether they are merely parroting back to you what they think you want to hear or if there is truly a work of grace going on in their hearts.

We thought of baptizing Noah here in the village, with me administrating. However, the only "church" here is my family and the Dani evangelists and a few possible tribal believers. No local church has been particularized and this does not really happen here anyway.

Also, a parent baptizing his child might sound nice, however, I might prefer someone else do it. For some reason it seems to lack as much legitimacy if a parent baptises their own child, though I am an official recognized church officer here. I might desire myself and Jimi Weyato, our most faithful evangelist officially sent by the indigenous church body with which I work, to baptize him simultanously, one on each side. Thoughts?

We also thought of waiting until 2014, when we come home on furlough and having the pastor of my home church baptize Noah. However, I am always leery of delaying baptism needlessly if Noah shows strong evidence of salvation now (although, on the other hand, I am also leery of premature baptism, which often happens here..a bunch of baptized pagans is what this province is full of...).

What would you advise about my 6 year old son Noah? What in general do you recommend when small children report faith in Christ?

Thanks,

--
--

p.s. I am a reformed baptist, not paedo. Keep that in mind when answering. I welcome paedos to respond too, but my aim is not to debate baptism but to seek counsel given my present convictions as a credo.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 9, 2010)

I don't have any answers to your questions, but wanted to say Praise God for the faith of Noah!


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## Scottish Lass (Nov 9, 2010)

Praise God for Noah's profession!


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## KMK (Nov 9, 2010)

I don't think there is any reason to rush into anything. However, there is nothing illegitimate about baptizing your own children if you are a called and approved minister of the church. (I have baptized 4 of my own children as the Pastor of their church. I also administer the Lord's Supper to them. It is my duty to do so.) It sounds like what you are longing for is the very legitimate idea of having them baptized in the presence of YOUR church, which on the other side of the world. 

Anyway, praise God for Noah!


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## Wannabee (Nov 9, 2010)

Does Noah understand baptism?

I think the Ethiopian had it right, "What hinders me to be baptized?"

I think baptizing your own son is wonderful. However, I would ask a mature brother to talk to him to affirm Noah's understanding of Christ. He's used to you and how you think. And, let's face it, parents want to see their children saved. I think you caution is warranted. Perhaps this route would help.

It is a precious gift to see our children come to faith in Christ.


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## Jack K (Nov 9, 2010)

It's great news! But you may need to resist trying to peer into your son's heart (or that of any candidate for baptism) to determine whether or not he is saved. You can't do it and it's not your job. If your son makes a credible profession faith and shows some fruits of repentance, I think for you to suspect he may later renege will not be helpful to him. Rejoice with him for what God has done in his life, and show that you eagerly expect God to continue his work in him.

Pastorally, this means that if you decide to have him wait to be baptized, I think you should avoid giving the impression that you aren't sure enough of his faith. If he waits, the reason should be for the betterment of his faith, not because he doesn't yet measure up.

Given what you've reported, it sounds like he's at least on par with most of the Baptist kids I work with who get baptized, and ahead of many of them, though younger than most. Of course, I'd baptize them as babies if it were all up to me, but that's water under the bridge by the time they reach this age.

He's a young disciple expressing credible faith and wishing to be baptized. I think the burden is on you to show why it would be better for his Christian growth to wait. For sure, you must not suggest that you have doubts God is truly at work in him.

If you do baptize him now, I very much like the idea of involving other church leaders besides yourself. Make it clearly a church event, not a family one. Perhaps the indigenous evangelist could help examine him too.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 9, 2010)

I agree with Pastor Johnson and Jack.


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## CovenantalBaptist (Nov 10, 2010)

I was baptized at age 7 by my father (ordained Reformed Baptist pastor) after an examination by our other elder. I wasn't baptized right as I made my profession, there was a several month interval as my parents sought to examine my pattern of behaviour to see if it was truly different. It may have helped them to see that I had been under conviction of sin for a considerable time before my profession. Some may disagree with this, but, I believe that it is important to test a profession of faith and this inevitably takes time. We can't be certain, and, we still make mistakes, but, as elders and shepherds of the flock we are entrusted with overseeing it and protecting it from false professors as best as we are able (Acts 20:28-29). I think it's helpful to get a second opinion (which is partly why I believe baptism is a church ordinance and not a private one). If you would like some help from a Reformed Baptist standpoint, this book by Dennis Gunderson might be helpful.


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## Scottish Lass (Nov 10, 2010)

CovenantalBaptist said:


> I was baptized at age 7 by my father (ordained Reformed Baptist pastor) after an examination by our other elder. I wasn't baptized right as I made my profession, there was a several month interval as my parents sought to examine my pattern of behaviour to see if it was truly different. It may have helped them to see that I had been under conviction of sin for a considerable time before my profession. Some may disagree with this, but, I believe that it is important to test a profession of faith and this inevitably takes time. We can't be certain, and, we still make mistakes, but, as elders and shepherds of the flock we are entrusted with overseeing it and protecting it from false professors as best as we are able (Acts 20:28-29). I think it's helpful to get a second opinion (which is partly why I believe baptism is a church ordinance and not a private one). If you would like some help from a Reformed Baptist standpoint, this book by Dennis Gunderson might be helpful.


 
Are you talking about a waiting period only for children? Does the biblical pattern (at least for adults) not seem to link profession and baptism more closely in time--the jailer, for instance?


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## KaphLamedh (Nov 10, 2010)

Great! Really great!!!
When so young understand that baptism is important it's really God's grace to him and to your family also.


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## Phil D. (Nov 10, 2010)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I agree with Pastor Johnson and Jack.


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## Marrow Man (Nov 10, 2010)

Scottish Lass said:


> CovenantalBaptist said:
> 
> 
> > I was baptized at age 7 by my father (ordained Reformed Baptist pastor) after an examination by our other elder. I wasn't baptized right as I made my profession, there was a several month interval as my parents sought to examine my pattern of behaviour to see if it was truly different. It may have helped them to see that I had been under conviction of sin for a considerable time before my profession. Some may disagree with this, but, I believe that it is important to test a profession of faith and this inevitably takes time. We can't be certain, and, we still make mistakes, but, as elders and shepherds of the flock we are entrusted with overseeing it and protecting it from false professors as best as we are able (Acts 20:28-29). I think it's helpful to get a second opinion (which is partly why I believe baptism is a church ordinance and not a private one). If you would like some help from a Reformed Baptist standpoint, this book by Dennis Gunderson might be helpful.
> ...


 
There does not appear to be any biblical examples of a significant delay between a profession of faith and baptism. This is more reminiscent of what took place in the early church when catechumens were made to wait (sometimes up to 3 years!) before they were baptized. There were pragmatic reasons for doing so (e.g., making sure none were spurious converts who would fall away during periods of persecution), but there is no example of this practice in the Bible, nor can one be inferred (besides, it's not as Christians in biblical times did not undergo persecution).


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## Pergamum (Nov 10, 2010)

I also see no waiting period for baptism, though obviously we do not want to baptize spurious professors.


I think we will baptize him soon.

The main deciding factor for me is that he himself is requesting it. The "what hinders" question hangs heavy on me and I cannot see anything that does hinder me.


Some of the calvinistic baptists who are big on local church issues say that baptism is only to be linked to a local church. But I am in a church planting situation and the believers here are not part of an organized local church or a particularized congregation. There is my family, 3 Dani evangelists whom I believe to be saved, and a horde of local tribals, one or two might possibly be saved.

In the NT I do not see particular local churches as gatekeepers for baptism. 

In Scripture I do not see that baptism is linked to formal local church membership, but we are baptized into Christ and then we naturally join with God's people. Baptism is a church ordinance and performed by church officers and is the first visible public testimony of a Christian, however, I don't see that one particular local church is the gate-keeper for this. We are baptized into Christ and into His Body, the Church universal and then, afterwards, we are expected to have local fellowship. Several instances of baptism in the NT were outside the church and being "added to the church" seems to signify more that they are now God's people and does not merely mean being added to a local chuch's membership rolls (especially since in Acts 2 it was mostly out-of-towners who were added to the church).

Just as many people and pastors advise waiting, and the same number suggest baptizing immediately upon a clear profession of faith. Some say that I could cause harm by baptizing now without waiting for more proof and others advise that I could cause harm by waiting and discouraging him when he seems a good candidate now and asks for baptism.

Thoughts?

---

A final observation: I also sent out my question to my email group:

The Presbyterian and more evangelical responses generally favored baptism without adding a waiting period. My own circle of sovereign grace baptists however, by email, mostly suggested waiting for fear of baptizing one who is not yet saved. 

Among Presbyterians there was more emphasis on discipleship afterward and "improving" one's baptism and among calvy baptists there was more of an emphasis on checking the candidate to avoid a false start. 

I am credo baptist but admit that the focus on later discipleship rather than trying to peer into the hearts of the candidates and even delaying baptism without biblical precedent in order to make better sure that Noah is saved makes more sense.


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## Steve Curtis (Nov 10, 2010)

I join with you and those who are praising God for Noah's confession of faith. I also favor baptizing him without a waiting period (in keeping with the general Presbyterian response!)


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## Jack K (Nov 10, 2010)

Pergamum said:


> Some of the calvinistic baptists who are big on local church issues say that baptism is only to be linked to a local church. But I am in a church planting situation and the believers here are not part of an organized local church or a particularized congregation. There is my family, 3 Dani evangelists whom I believe to be saved, and a horde of local tribals, one or two might possibly be saved.



Unless there is some other group of believers where you are, I'd say you _are_ the church of Jesus in your corner of the world, with the appropriate level of organization for your situation. Paul and crew baptized Lydia in a place where there was no "particularized congregation" anywhere on the continent. In a missionary situation, the church begins with baptism rather than the other way around.


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## Pergamum (Nov 10, 2010)

Here is my response and decision. Thanks for your counsel. I wish I had more of you brothers here to work alongside me and give me closer counsel.




> I really appreciate the many well-thought out responses.
> 
> Pastors, your replies are very widely varied! In many ways, this encourages me, because it shows me that this is not a totally clear issue and so my lack of certainty was warranted.
> 
> ...


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## Wannabee (Nov 10, 2010)

Seems like you've thought it out well to me Pergy. As long as he's wanting to be baptized in identity with Christ and not with man in some form (peer pressure or because others are doing it or for attention or something akin) it seems clear from a bazillion miles away.


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## KMK (Nov 10, 2010)

Praise God, Perg! Post pictures!


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## Scottish Lass (Nov 10, 2010)

Thanks for sharing, Pergamum. Praying for God's will to be worked in Noah...


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## CovenantalBaptist (Nov 11, 2010)

Scottish Lass said:


> Are you talking about a waiting period only for children? Does the biblical pattern (at least for adults) not seem to link profession and baptism more closely in time--the jailer, for instance?


 
For purposes of clarification: We baptize and receive into membership applicants on a case by case basis that considers all factors. Some cases are clear, others are not as clear. I suspect that in practice we are identical to most credobaptist baptisms in most Reformed Presbyterian churches, but, to be fair, I know more about the OPC and PCA and I don't know about your church's practices. I suspect we would be similar.

I am speaking generally here and not specifically to the case of Noah. Generally, we have a policy that we won't receive anyone into membership that does not clearly demonstrate a changed life and the fruit of the spirit. Children raised in Christian homes are sometimes (not always) more difficult to identify because of their upbringing in the Christian culture, their love for pleasing their parents and their general immaturity compared to a pagan adult convert like the Phillipian jailer. Or, even in terms of his pagan family who came from complete ignorance to faith in Christ - it would not be hard in a formerly pagan family to find evidence of radical change. So, sometimes it's crystal clear and instantly discernable like that as it was for many conversions in the book of Acts - and praise God for that! And, sometimes it's not. As elders we are responsible to oversee the flock. Sometimes the motives for seeking baptism are discernibly not pure (parental or peer pressure/expectations etc.) and it is our job as elders as best as we're able to interview and seek to identify true believers. In the process do we set arbitrary waiting times or ages? No we don't. It is determined on a case by case basis. In my case, my parents and the elders of my church chose to move more slowly (although a few months seems hardly that long a waiting period, and, for us we have to find and reserve a church with a baptismal tank). Should they have baptized me sooner? It's not for me to say - I trust the judgment of the God-ordained elders of the church. 

I understand that yours (Anna) and your husband's (Pastor Tim's) theological understanding of the ordinance of baptism is fundamentally different than ours and so some of the decisions that we make especially with regard to children and timing you will disagree with and I respect that. I have no desire to engage in a Presbyterian/Baptist debate on this topic. I offered my response in this thread as a Baptist pastor to a Baptist missionary. Ultimately, as per our polity, I would point my brother back to your sending church for counsel which I assume he has already done. I hope that clarifies my statement. May God bless you as you consider your actions.

Every blessing,


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## dudley (Nov 11, 2010)

I agree with Pastor Johnson and Jack as brother Martin said and I praise god for Noahs profession of faith in Christ alone as his savior.


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## Pergamum (Nov 11, 2010)

Pastor Chris Powell:

I have checked with my home church out of my respect for them. But, they have already commissioned me and I am able and have the right to baptize and give out the ordinances and preach already such that I need not gain permission for every churchly act from my sending church. If such things were demanded of missionaries and all pastors sent out to plant new churches, this would really mess up the forward progress of the Gospel.


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## Scottish Lass (Nov 11, 2010)

CovenantalBaptist said:


> Scottish Lass said:
> 
> 
> > Are you talking about a waiting period only for children? Does the biblical pattern (at least for adults) not seem to link profession and baptism more closely in time--the jailer, for instance?
> ...


 
In all fairness, nothing I wrote was paedo vs credo, but only about biblical justification for delay.


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## CovenantalBaptist (Nov 11, 2010)

Pergamum said:


> Pastor Chris Powell:
> 
> I have checked with my home church out of my respect for them. But, they have already commissioned me and I am able and have the right to baptize and give out the ordinances and preach already such that I need not gain permission for every churchly act from my sending church. If such things were demanded of missionaries and all pastors sent out to plant new churches, this would really mess up the forward progress of the Gospel.


 
I'm not sure you understood me. Nothing is "demanded of" you. What I was saying was in terms of general polity and missiology, if there is a situation on the field where one is unsure as to how one might proceed, one might expect that your first line of questioning after considering the situation in your context, might be to seek out your fellow elders who (along with the congregation) commissioned and sent you out. At least, when I was an intern at a large Reformed Baptist church in the USA with numerous foreign missionaries on multiple continents (even in difficult to access areas) that is how it worked. The elders in the US were often consulted as a support network for the missionary in the field. In some cases they even went to help out. The missionary was considered a partner on a foreign field. Now, of course he chose what he brought to his fellow elders. In other words he had a certain level of autonomy - it was not an authoritarian situation, it was a support role. Perhaps your situation is different and I overgeneralized based on my experience. My only goal here was to be of assistance to you.


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## Christopher88 (Nov 11, 2010)

Early Church history from Acts and beyond shows no waiting period. 
If I had a child who professes Christ and understands what he or she is professing I would baptize my child. I'm Credo in my baptism beliefs so like you I wait for profession before baptism. Your son Noah has made that profession known, baptise your son. As for not having a church with you. My friend God's church is with you, it just may not be a big number. Go baptize your son and rejoice for his profession.


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## Pergamum (Nov 11, 2010)

CovenantalBaptist said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > Pastor Chris Powell:
> ...


 
Okay Chris, thanks I agree. Yes, I use my local church a great deal in asking for advice. They offer counsel, even while being wise in not trying to govern missions practice from 1,000 miles away. We are agreed.


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