# Sabbath obedience and outdoor endeavors lasting longer than a week



## Tim (Jun 26, 2014)

Please comment, from a confessional Presbyterian perspective, on the propriety of participating in outdoor adventures that last longer than 6 days. I am thinking of endeavors such as expedition mountaineering and ocean yacht racing. See, for example:

Climbing Mount Denali (Alaska)

Clipper Round the World yacht race


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 26, 2014)

Wow, this is really an interesting question Tim. I am looking forward to reading some of the responses.


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## Hamalas (Jun 26, 2014)




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## Toasty (Jun 26, 2014)

Suppose there was a preacher on the trip. Suppose everyone rested on the Sabbath and the preacher lead a worship service. What would you think about that?


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## Tim (Jun 26, 2014)

Toasty said:


> Suppose there was a preacher on the trip. Suppose everyone rested on the Sabbath and the preacher lead a worship service. What would you think about that?



I think that would be fine. Even without a preacher, a family on a long trip (ocean or land) could set aside a day of Sabbath rest and worship. 

I am more speaking of situations where you won't have the cooperation of others.


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## belin (Jun 26, 2014)

One thing is certain:

It proves our cleverness in working out ways to violate the laws of God ... then we go further and attempt to legitimize it


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## Tim (Jun 26, 2014)

belin said:


> One thing is certain:
> 
> It proves our cleverness in working out ways to violate the laws of God ... then we go further and attempt to legitimize it



Belin, I don't know to whom your comments are directed, but I would ask you to consider whether what you have written is charitable. The mere asking for insight into the application of God's law in everyday life is not an attempt to violate or legitimize anything.


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## Tim (Jun 26, 2014)

Further, if you re-read the original post, you will see that the question includes a pre-commitment to the historic Presbyterian view of the Sabbath.


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## belin (Jun 26, 2014)

Tim, Not at all. My sincere apologies if it came across like that.


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## belin (Jun 26, 2014)

It was a side comment ... should not have written it.


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## Abeard (Jun 26, 2014)

Wow! those are a couple of crazy adventures!

Just quickly looking at the situation it appears with these adventures it would require you to participate in the activity on the Lord's day. The larger catechism talks about ceasing from worldly employments and recreations on the Lord's day. I think it would be fair to classify these activities as sport/recreation.


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## Abeard (Jun 26, 2014)

Do they ever take a day long break during these adventures? Maybe you could get them to take their break on the sunday.


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## VictorBravo (Jun 26, 2014)

After being convicted by confessional teaching on the Sabbath, there are a lot of things I've chosen not to do because they required activity on the Lord's Day. For example:

I did not attend my graduation from an LLM program (advanced law degree) from the University of Washington Law School because it was held on the Lord's Day.
I do not attend weekend continuing education "retreats" at nice venues because they run over into the Lord's Day
I gave up sailing regattas, softball games, turkey shoots, and all sorts of other things.

Funny how I don't miss them, either.

I'm speaking personally, but for someone with my background, the easiest answer to the question is don't even tempt yourself.


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## jwithnell (Jun 26, 2014)

We were created to "rule over the earth" and that would entail knowing it. Some people were designed to do great things -- things that take longer than a week. If someone's general life pattern is to set the day aside, and even in the midst of such an adventure take some peculiar time on Sunday I don't see a problem. Another caution would be to be particularly scrupulous in your day-to-day devotions. The concern here isn't so much keeping the letter of the law, but recognizing the tremendous blessing God has given us in the Sabbath. I can tell you from my days of fighting wildland fires (a 16-day commitment when you were assigned), that going straight through a Sabbath is spiritually and physically challenging.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jun 26, 2014)

Sabbath-keeping assumes the regularity of our devotion. The regularity of the event calls for additional regularity in the manner of it's keeping. God has made provision for our need and prescribes accordingly.

God's provision is not without allowance for exigences. Our Lord pointed to the care of a man's property on the Sabbath Day, as work of necessity/mercy commonly recognized as exceptionally lawful (see Lk.13:15; Mt.12:9-13; cf. Dt.22:1-4; Ex.23:4-5).

The feasts of Israel were mandatory--all eligible males were commanded to be present. But sometimes there were obstacles. Uncleanness was a particular issue in Num.9. The provision made was a "second-month" Passover, vv11-12. v13 envisions the possibility that even with a supplemental date, there will be some who still journeying simply cannot fulfill this important feast (and by implication, other feasts); but also that there are others who should be faulted for missing the date.

It seems to me, the conclusion we should draw is that some projects require extended time to complete them. Some thought is required with respect to how personal Sabbath devotion will be honored by the Christian so engaged, before he undertakes the project. Is the Christian in charge of the project? How will that affect the planning? Is he a participant? Will he be free to keep his own schedule on the Sabbath? How much necessity/mercy is in the activities of that day? What options are in the Christian's hands? Does the plan show no concern whatever for man's spiritual nature, or the commands of God?

The decision of what projects should or shouldn't be engaged is, I think, not for one man to make in the stead of another man who is not beholden to him. That is a conscience matter.

I do believe that the question posed is good and serious. Too many people think last-of-all of how some work, or some move, or some project will impact them spiritually. They first commit themselves in heart to their pet project; and when as an afterthought the matter of worship comes up, they assure themselves they will make do, or "God will understand," when those sentiments are actual proof of indifference to piety.


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## MW (Jun 26, 2014)

It is impossible to separate the confessional view of the Sabbath from the overall perspective of living to the glory of God. I imagine the Puritans would have been somewhat negative towards pursuing this kind of lifestyle in the first place.


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## Andres (Jun 26, 2014)

jwithnell said:


> I can tell you from my days of fighting wildland fires (a 16-day commitment when you were assigned)



I see a stark contrast in fighting wildfires and mountain climbing or boating for sport. The first is a necessity to preserve life, so firefighting, along with law enforcement and emergency medical professions, are permissable work on the Lord's Day. The latter, however, are sport/recreation. They are not a necessity and I would encourage a Christian to avoid them on the Lord's Day. God gives us six days of the week for our work and recreation. He requires us to set aside one day, ONE DAY, out of seven to honor him. If a Christian finds enjoyment in any recreation, then let him be taken up with it six days of the week, but let him joyfully set aside the Lord's Day in worship and honor the Creator.


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## ZackF (Jun 26, 2014)

armourbearer said:


> It is impossible to separate the confessional view of the Sabbath from the overall perspective of living to the glory of God. I imagine the Puritans would have been somewhat negative towards pursuing this kind of lifestyle in the first place.



I think the Puritans would have a problem with the entire sports culture that has engulfed the world.


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## JP Wallace (Jun 27, 2014)

Tim

It's a great question which I have thought about in relation to myself and others. The issues as I see it are not: that the event takes one from church for an extended period, this is sometimes necessary in pursuit of legitimate soldiering, or even relocating to a mission field or something, neither is it that formal worship does not take place, it's not even the actual things you get up to on the Lord's Day, as I think you could legitimise working on deck for instance as a work of mercy and/or necessity in a ship context. 

It seems to me that the issue is that these pursuits are taken up for recreation, and in themselves are not necessary, or merciful, thus in my conscience I would probably not do them. In a similar way I have not taken up opportunity to do running coach courses because they include Sunday classes.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Jun 27, 2014)

On extended works of necessity or mercy, such as ocean voyages and prosecuting just wars, (among other things) the company of saints had a chaplain to conduct worship services to God, who the puritans believed was owed these services on His holy day. Thus, chaplains were hired to be the spiritual guides for such necessary endeavors. I do not believe climbing mountains for the sake of getting to the top, or racing 'round the word to be such necessary or merciful activities. They do sound like great fun, intriguing, exciting, etc. but not necessary, and not an act of mercy. Further, those who were considering even such necessary or merciful works, because of their Church membership, would require the leave of their elders before such an undertaking, because while it may be a necessary work, that does not mean that everyone *should* undertake to do it.


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## whirlingmerc (Jun 27, 2014)

Of course all of life in all places is worship. Not on this Samaritan mountain or in Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth.


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## Frosty (Jun 27, 2014)

"Hey guys, I think I'm going to take Sunday off. No worries, I'll catch up to you probably sometime around Tuesday afternoon. Peace!"


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## VictorBravo (Jun 27, 2014)

whirlingmerc said:


> Of course all of life in all places is worship. Not on this Samaritan mountain or in Jerusalem, but in spirit and in truth.



I can't see how this is related to the original question.

I can speculate, of course, but don't want to. The thread is dealing with whether we should not engage in recreational activities that, by their nature, will take us from regular and weekly corporate worship.


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## Peairtach (Jun 27, 2014)

Tim said:


> Please comment, from a confessional Presbyterian perspective, on the propriety of participating in outdoor adventures that last longer than 6 days. I am thinking of endeavors such as expedition mountaineering and ocean yacht racing. See, for example:
> 
> Climbing Mount Denali (Alaska)
> 
> Clipper Round the World yacht race



You have the choice of doing them with friends who don't observe the Sabbath, thus making it difficult or impossible to consecrate the day to God.

Not doing them, and leaving yourself free to consecrate the day to God.

Doing them with friends who do observe the Sabbath, and planning to consecrate the day to God with them, in the process of your journey up the mountain or across the sea. You have to decide if you and your supportive friends are able to do this in all conscience.


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## Edward (Jun 27, 2014)

Tim said:


> Please comment, from a confessional Presbyterian perspective, on the propriety of participating in outdoor adventures that last longer than 6 days. I am thinking of endeavors such as expedition mountaineering and ocean yacht racing. See, for example:



It seems that you have several options. 

1. Conclude that the Standards are wrong. 

2. Conclude that the standards are right, and willfully violate them because you want to have fun. 

3. Abide by the standards.


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## PaulMc (Jun 27, 2014)

Peairtach said:


> You have the choice of doing them with friends who don't observe the Sabbath, thus making it difficult or impossible to consecrate the day to God.
> 
> Not doing them, and leaving yourself free to consecrate the day to God.
> 
> Doing them with friends who do observe the Sabbath, and planning to consecrate the day to God with them, in the process of your journey up the mountain or across the sea. You have to decide if you and your supportive friends are able to do this in all conscience.



I'm exactly with Richard on this.


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## Tim (Jun 27, 2014)

Edward said:


> It seems that you have several options.
> 
> 1. Conclude that the Standards are wrong.
> 
> ...



Of course those are the options, but as I said above, my question includes a pre-commitment to the Presbyterian Standards, so all discussion should occur with regard to point 3. Unless we adopt the position that a person must attend worship at their membership/congregation without fail 52 weeks a year, we must deal with situations where one voluntarily puts themselves in a less-than-ideal location where it may be more challenging to maintain ones' desired Sabbath practice. This might be another congregation (perhaps that is not part of ones' own denomination) or perhaps a location where there is no adequate church and rest/worship occurs within the family alone.


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## nick (Jun 28, 2014)

Frosty said:


> "Hey guys, I think I'm going to take Sunday off. No worries, I'll catch up to you probably sometime around Tuesday afternoon. Peace!"



Hahahah

---

Good stuff in these replies. Thanks!


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## Kaj (Jun 30, 2014)

I find this most helpful, Todd. It's often difficult, especially as a minister, to tell a member that what they intend to skip the Sabbath for is not necessary. Yet at the same time, the minister cannot himself be the judge of the necessity of a matter, but the one aiming to miss public worship.


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## Edward (Jun 30, 2014)

Tim said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > It seems that you have several options.
> ...



There is a lot of room for a confessional response between attending your own church 52 weeks a year and frolicking on a mountainside or a yacht on the Lord's day. You have set up a false dichotomy that seems to fall more readily into my category 2 rather than 3.


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## Tim (Jun 30, 2014)

Edward said:


> There is a lot of room for a confessional response between attending your own church 52 weeks a year and frolicking on a mountainside or a yacht on the Lord's day. You have set up a false dichotomy that seems to fall more readily into my category 2 rather than 3.



I still don't think you are giving me the benefit of the doubt with the intent of my question. 

Obviously, I picked some "extreme" examples, but the principle is really what is important. If you think there is no way a Christian could ever obey the 4th Commandment while traveling by sea or while on an 8-day hiking trip, then please do state your reasons. There have been some good responses already and I am open to more.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Jul 1, 2014)

Tim said:


> Obviously, I picked some "extreme" examples, but the principle is really what is important.


Tim, 
I believe pastor Ruddell summed up how to approach the question of any degree of outdoor endeavor that may occur on the Lord's Day.


Rev. Todd Ruddell said:


> I do not believe climbing mountains for the sake of getting to the top, or racing 'round the word to be such necessary or merciful activities.


The Boundaries lie here... "Is it necessary or merciful?"

count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord


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## Edward (Jul 1, 2014)

As long as you keep trying to set up false dichotomies, I'll keep calling you on it. The original question didn't deal with any travel by sea, but to a recreational adventure. Want to take a long voyage? Book a trip on a ship large enough to offer corporate worship on the Lord's day. Want to take an 8 day recreational hike? Arrange a route that allows a break on the Lord's day near a church where you can worship. 

Or be honest with yourself and take an exception to the standards.

And I'll be happy to give my reasons - The Scriptures and the Westminster Standards.


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## Tim (Jul 1, 2014)

Edward said:


> Or be honest with yourself and take an exception to the standards.



Um, what? Where did I state any such conclusions?

Did you perhaps read this sentence of mine:



Tim said:


> I am thinking of endeavors such as expedition mountaineering and ocean yacht racing.



...to mean that I was actually contemplating these specific activities and ready to sign up?

If so, I can see why you persist. Maybe I worded it poorly, but all I meant to communicate was that I wished to consider these as an example. I do not take exception to the Westminster Standards on this matter.

Perhaps I should have stated this earlier, but I always had in mind that there would need to be some sort of break from the activities given as example. But I take it from your most recent post that you suggest that this break (i.e., the whole first day of the week) should necessarily include _corporate_ worship, and not just private or family worship?


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Jul 1, 2014)

Tim, have you read the sermon by David Clarkson on Psalm 87.2, titled "Public Worship to be Preferred before Private"? This may help you to answer the question you posed in post # 34.


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## SRoper (Jul 1, 2014)

This is an interesting question because it gets to the definition of "necessity" in the types of work permitted on the Lord's Day. I remember a discussion on here where it was suggested that a necessary work is one that cannot be done the day before or the day after--which I found to be a rather useful definition. If this is the case, then it seems that tending to a single-handed boat on an ocean crossing would fall under a work of necessity as it cannot be done ahead of time or put off to the next day.

Many here would be unsatisfied with this conclusion as it was not necessary to make the crossing in the first place. So the definition of necessity given before was at least incomplete. I find this to be a much more slippery approach. Most would agree that milking dairy cows on the Lord's Day is a work of necessity (in fact it was given as an example of a work of necessity in a previous thread). However, on the definition proposed on this thread, how could you escape the argument that it is not necessary to keep dairy cows?


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## Tim (Jul 2, 2014)

Rev. Todd Ruddell said:


> Tim, have you read the sermon by David Clarkson on Psalm 87.2, titled "Public Worship to be Preferred before Private"? This may help you to answer the question you posed in post # 34.



I am familiar with the public > private principle, but I had not considered it in light of this question. Thanks - that is useful to consider.


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