# Becoming Reformed/Stages/the PB



## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

OK people. I do some fun "silly" polls here, usually when things get tense to break the ice. (A bit like Reagan and the bowl of jelly beans), but this is serious.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 3, 2008)

Since some of my brethren do not believe that a Calvinist baptist is really Reformed, I chose: "I had strong Reformed leanings when I joined." I am still a baptist but have learned a great deal on the PB.


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## Coram Deo (Apr 3, 2008)

My stages have been progressive...

Started Dispensational Arminian Immersionist Baptist Fundamentalist Normative Principled

Left Arminianism about 11 years ago.

Left Dispensationalism (Separation of Israel/Church, Rapture) about 4 years ago

Left the Most of Normative Principle of Worship about 4 years ago

Joined Puritanboard.. Following Influences from the Puritanboard and From Church/Pastor Friends...

Left Fundamentalism (No Alcohol, No Tobacco) about 2 years ago

Left Dispensational aspects of the Songs of Zion, Eucharistic Presence, and the Spirit Dwelling within Old Testaments Saints about 2 years ago and the Spirit part 1 year..

Left Immersionism Last 2 Months Ago 

Left CredoBaptism This Month 


Add in my Theonomy understandings and I believe I can finally say "Truly Reformed"  






etexas said:


> OK people. I do some fun "silly" polls here, usually when things get tense to break the ice. (A bit like Reagan and the bowl of jelly beans), but this is serious.


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## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

There are elements that I do not have in my actual poll, if you feel you don't fit snugly into my options please do post and share your experience.


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## MrMerlin777 (Apr 3, 2008)

Definitely reformed when I joined.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 3, 2008)

Coram Deo said:


> My stages have been progressive...
> 
> Started Dispensational Arminian Immersionist Baptist Fundamentalist Normative Principled
> 
> ...



Son, you've been doing a lot of "leaving" over the last several years. Having a commitment problem?


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## shackleton (Apr 3, 2008)

Coram Deo said:


> My stages have been progressive...
> 
> Started Dispensational Arminian Immersionist Baptist Fundamentalist Normative Principled
> 
> ...



Your slowly becoming a full blown heretic


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## jaybird0827 (Apr 3, 2008)

Answer is "A".

I have continued to become firmer in my convictions partly through encouragment from interacting with others on the PB.


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## KMK (Apr 3, 2008)

According to how most think of the word 'reformed', I think I have become less reformed.


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## Zenas (Apr 3, 2008)

Raised "Baptist". 
Did not attend church.
Had a synergenic understanding of Salvation.
Held a strong Deistic view of God and His affairs in the world in order to reconcile Creationism and the evolution I began to accept. 
Smoked and drank way too much. 

God called me to Himself in June of 2005. 
I couldn't tell you when I started to believe almost anything but by the time I got here, I was already Reformed.


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## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

KMK said:


> According to how most think of the word 'reformed', I think I have become less reformed.


Curious. What do you mean Brother?


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## Coram Deo (Apr 3, 2008)

Yeah Commitment Problems to Error.... 

Michael




DMcFadden said:


> Coram Deo said:
> 
> 
> > My stages have been progressive...
> ...


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## Coram Deo (Apr 3, 2008)

I don't get it...

I thought I was going in the reverse away from being a Heretic.... 




shackleton said:


> Coram Deo said:
> 
> 
> > My stages have been progressive...
> ...


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## kvanlaan (Apr 3, 2008)

> I have continued to become firmer in my convictions partly through encouragment from interacting with others on the PB.



Ditto here. And I thank the Lord for such a community - there's nothing else like it in my experience.


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## KMK (Apr 3, 2008)

etexas said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > According to how most think of the word 'reformed', I think I have become less reformed.
> ...



I think to most 'reformed' means you believe in Calvinism. But I have learned at PB that 'reformed' means strict subscription to the WCF as well as EP and Cessationism. To top it off, I have found that no theonomists of the Bahnsen mold are reformed either. So the more I learn about what it means to be truly 'reformed' the less I realize I am 'reformed'.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Apr 3, 2008)

KMK said:


> I think to most 'reformed' means you believe in Calvinism. But I have learned at PB that 'reformed' means strict subscription to the WCF as well as EP and Cessationism. To top it off, I have found that no theonomists of the Bahnsen mold are reformed either. So the more I learn about what it means to be truly 'reformed' the less I realize I am 'reformed'.



I too have quite the conundrum concerning several of these same points, and thus didn't know where I fit in with the options given in the poll.


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## Grymir (Apr 3, 2008)

Since you say fully reformed and not truly reformed, I checked that one easily. (I'm not Psalm-only). Being here has firmed up my convictions. It makes me think deeper about ideas when I post, because the level of knowledge is greater than the liberal wasteland that I live in.


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## Barnpreacher (Apr 3, 2008)

etexas said:


> OK people. I do some fun "silly" polls here, usually when things get tense to break the ice. (A bit like Reagan and the bowl of jelly beans), but this is serious.



Serious? Etex, it's a little hard to take anything serious with a picture of funnyman Will Ferrell as your avatar.


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## MW (Apr 3, 2008)

KMK said:


> [To top it off, I have found that no theonomists of the Bahnsen mold are reformed either.



Theonomy is generally considered an intramural discussion *within* the reformed community.


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## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> etexas said:
> 
> 
> > OK people. I do some fun "silly" polls here, usually when things get tense to break the ice. (A bit like Reagan and the bowl of jelly beans), but this is serious.
> ...


 Chuckle! Glad you like it! I had my Keith Moon Avatar up a while, and I recently got into a "debate" about Ferrell's time frame while he was on SNL, anyway, I found this picture of him in the white Stetson and about busted a gut, needless to say I decided to grab it as my avatar for a while! (Back to our Program)


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## Arch2k (Apr 3, 2008)

I have learned a wealth of knowledge by means of the PB (books, resourses, comments etc.). I would say it has been one of the greatest factors in taking me from Calvinistic, to confessionally reformed.


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## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

KMK said:


> etexas said:
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> > KMK said:
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Lol, hmmm maybe I am not reformed I just became a "basic" Calvinist! Shoot, close enough!


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## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > I think to most 'reformed' means you believe in Calvinism. But I have learned at PB that 'reformed' means strict subscription to the WCF as well as EP and Cessationism. To top it off, I have found that no theonomists of the Bahnsen mold are reformed either. So the more I learn about what it means to be truly 'reformed' the less I realize I am 'reformed'.
> ...


Be nice! I could only give 4 options , I was trying to be as broad as possible, GASP.....am I running out of creativity OR maybe serious polls are not my thing!


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## Pilgrim (Apr 3, 2008)

I had become a paedobaptist and was attending an OPC congregation regularly when I joined here, so it's probably most accurate to answer that I was already Reformed when I got here, even though my convictions have deepened since joining the OPC and participating here. I can't recall having any doctrinal shifts since joining the PB. Of course some would say I have a ways to go, and obviously "fully reformed" here is subjective since some may argue that you can't be "fully reformed" without being EP, subscribing to the original WCF, etc.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Apr 3, 2008)

etexas said:


> Southern Presbyterian said:
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> > KMK said:
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It wasn't my intent to deride your poll, brother.

I was puzzling over the term "FULLY" reformed when I saw Brother Ken's post and it struck a cord with me. I am not EP, nor do I believe in head coverings, but am theonomic, while many of my dear brothers/sisters on the PB are EP, believe in head coverings, and are not theonomic. Are they "fully" reformed? I am sure that they are fully convinced in their consciences and before the Lord that they are, as am I about my particular positions. I am certainly "fully" confessional, as my denomination would define the term. Therefore, I consider myself to be "fully" reformed. Yet I know some of my brothers may not agree with that assessment. 

So I guess what I was trying to determine is, "What does FULLY reformed mean?" Is it enough to hold to the doctrines of grace and the RPW (as I understand it)? I certainly don't wish to be overly subjective! So I ask, humbly and with great respect to all my PB brethren, "Can there be a objective definition of 'FULLY' reformed"?

Blessings,


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## etexas (Apr 3, 2008)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> etexas said:
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> > Southern Presbyterian said:
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Point taken! I view myself as truly Reformed as I embrace the teachings of Calvin (to the best of my ability) , the Westminster (since I am Presbyterian) The 3 Great Creeds, and RPW (as best as I understand and interpret them.) That is just me being Reformed in a nutshell....


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## Augusta (Apr 3, 2008)

When I came here I knew the five points and that was about it. I was steeped in charismatic arminianism before that and didn't know ANYTHING. Between the PB and finally attending our now home church God has brought me a long long way. Here is my first thread and you can see how much of a babe in Christ I was. http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/help-me-out-please-former-evangelical-crisis-375/ You can also see where Sailorswife recommends the church we now attend to me. Thank you Anne!!!


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## JBaldwin (Apr 3, 2008)

I said fully reformed, but the fact is I believe God is still reforming me, but when I had already sorted through the major reformed doctrines when I joined.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 3, 2008)

Coram Deo said:


> I don't get it...
> 
> I thought I was going in the reverse away from being a Heretic....




I have been reading a lot of Norm Geisler and David Hunt, and listening to Ergun Caner lately. The list you gave clearly puts you in the heretical category.


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## Augusta (Apr 3, 2008)

Thanks Josh, you were among those people who welcomed me. It was fun to go back 4 yrs and see who is still active from way back then. I am so amazed at what God did for me. 



joshua said:


> Augusta said:
> 
> 
> > When I came here I knew the five points and that was about it. I was steeped in charismatic arminianism before that and didn't know ANYTHING. Between the PB and finally attending our now home church God has brought me a long long way. Here is my first thread and you can see how much of a babe in Christ I was. http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/help-me-out-please-former-evangelical-crisis-375/ You can also see where Sailorswife recommends the church we now attend to me. Thank you Anne!!!
> ...


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## danmpem (Apr 3, 2008)

I was somewhere between "fully Reformed" and "strongly Reformed" when I joined. I guess it depends on what it means here to be Reformed. Are we just speaking in Sotierology, or with some of the other WCF/LBC bells and whistles as well?


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## bookslover (Apr 3, 2008)

KMK said:


> But I have learned at PB that 'reformed' means strict subscription to the WCF as well as EP and Cessationism.



One can be truly Reformed and not hold to EP...


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## JDKetterman (Apr 3, 2008)

First I was Pentecostal, then I was LCMS Lutheran, and then I joined the OPC 7yrs ago. When I joined the group, I was already Reformed. However, I'm learning a lot by being on the board.


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## Vonnie Dee (Apr 3, 2008)

I would say that I was already of a reformed mindset. This board has caused me to think about somethings that I had not thought about before. Neither my husband or I grew up reformed. Thankfully, God set us on the path together where one did not pass the other in understanding and acceptance.


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## Herald (Apr 3, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Since some of my brethren do not believe that a Calvinist baptist is really Reformed, I chose: "I had strong Reformed leanings when I joined." I am still a baptist but have learned a great deal on the PB.



It's okay Dennis. I feel your pain. I actually came up with my own designation. There's WCF-Reformed and Baptist-Reformed In my humble opinion. It's a subjective term any how.


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## Pergamum (Apr 4, 2008)

None of you baptists are clicking on "fully reformed" are you?


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## Pergamum (Apr 4, 2008)

If we fully subscribe to the 1689, for the purposes of PB membership, are we then fully reformed?


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## panta dokimazete (Apr 4, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> None of you baptists are clicking on "fully reformed" are you?



nope - I like "Broadly Reformed"


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## DMcFadden (Apr 4, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> If we fully subscribe to the 1689, for the purposes of PB membership, are we then fully reformed?



Pergy,

You've been around a lot longer than I have. But, the way some use the term around here, no a Calvinistic baptist would not be considered TR regardless of how strictly he subscribes to the 1689. I seem to remember reading someone quite important at PB who argued: Calvinist soteriology leads to Reformed ecclesiology and Coveant federal theology applied to baptism. Unless someone buys the whole package, runs the reasoning, one may be Calvinistic but not Reformed.

Frankly, that does not offend me at all. I am so blessed to be part of PB, that our intramural squabbles over baptism don't really matter to me. If my TR brethren would prefer to call me a Calvinist, so what? As it stands, the Geislers and Hunts think we are all nuts anyway.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

I aint clicking on any of them. I am a Particular Baptist historically. A Reformed Baptist by todays name. I came here a Covenantal Confessional Baptist. I didn't know what NPP or New Covenant Theology was because of other things I had been dealing with for years. But I quickly got up to speed here. I have learned a lot since I have been here though. 

I was familiar with Presbyterianism when I got here. I had been a member in the RPCNA and was a PCA member around the time I joined.

One of my first experiences here was when Matt told me I wasn't Reformed.... Really...


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## Ivan (Apr 4, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> One of my first experiences here was when Matt told me I wasn't Reformed.... Really...



I think it was Dr. Clark who told me I'm not Reformed.

I think I replied, "Okay."


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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

What does it mean to be Reformed Really?

Here is Matthew's article on being Reformed. He sent me a link to this the same time he told me I wasn't Reformed. I think I responded that he wasn't Reformed Enough. That was back in 2004 when I first joined.


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## Herald (Apr 4, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> If we fully subscribe to the 1689, for the purposes of PB membership, are we then fully reformed?



I would say "yes" but WCF-Reformed brethren would probably say "no." But that is their definition of what Reformed means. That's why I said earlier the term is subjective.


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## panta dokimazete (Apr 4, 2008)

I think Matt told me, too...


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## danmpem (Apr 4, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> If we fully subscribe to the 1689, for the purposes of PB membership, are we then fully reformed?



I'm making a list of characteristics found in the confessions and in many Reformed churches. I'll post the list and see which ones people think are necessary to have be considered Reformed.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Coram Deo said:
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> > My stages have been progressive...
> ...


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > If we fully subscribe to the 1689, for the purposes of PB membership, are we then fully reformed?
> ...



As a Reformed Baptist is someone who believes in the 5 points of Calvinism and the regulative principle, then I have no problem saying that they are Reformed.


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## danmpem (Apr 4, 2008)

danmpem said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > If we fully subscribe to the 1689, for the purposes of PB membership, are we then fully reformed?
> ...



Okay, that sounded a lot smarter before I actually went and did it. I'm sure that someone here who has studied Reformed theology even a little more than I have would be able to answer Pergamum's question.


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## etexas (Apr 4, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
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> > Pergamum said:
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I agree with my Buddy Daniel here. What objections would those who do not agree bring into play???? (I was not a member then:but I know there was a strong Reformed Baptist voice on the PB in the early days.


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## S. Spence (Apr 4, 2008)

Jeff_Bartel said:


> I have learned a wealth of knowledge by means of the PB (books, resourses, comments etc.). I would say it has been one of the greatest factors in taking me from Calvinistic, to confessionally reformed.



I would have to agree with the above.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Apr 4, 2008)

In the poll, I clicked _strong Reformed leanings_. I consider myself a "Reformed" Baptist a la 1689 LBCF, but have also been told Baptists are not TR.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Apr 4, 2008)

joshua said:


> Which shouldn't bother Baptists at all. It didn't bother them from the framing of the 1689 to less than a hundred years ago. They were content with _Particular _Baptists.



Ha. It doesn't bother me -- just a sentiment I run into on occasion. So, for the paedo's sake I didn't click "fully Reformed."


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## DMcFadden (Apr 4, 2008)

Gomarus said:


> joshua said:
> 
> 
> > Which shouldn't bother Baptists at all. It didn't bother them from the framing of the 1689 to less than a hundred years ago. They were content with _Particular _Baptists.
> ...



Amen. Depends upon your context. If I were talking to McLaren, Pentecostals, or most run-of-the-mill Arminians, I would probably explain my position as "Reformed." But, for the sake of the "weaker brethren"  on the PB I call myself a Calvinist. Actually, that is OK by me. The TR can be like Southern Baptists at times in that they will be shocked to find out that they are not the only group in heaven. 

Just kidding, guys. I look at some of you TRs and say "I'm not worthy" (and *really* mean it).


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## etexas (Apr 4, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Gomarus said:
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> > joshua said:
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Don't feel bad! I was an Anglican when I first joined: my FIRST post was to wish everyone blessings for Ash Wed. and a Blessed Lenten Season! MAN! I was in for a shock! I was so dumb I thought all Christians did it! Sigh, the memories!


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

etexas said:


> DMcFadden said:
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> > Gomarus said:
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 You really "put your foot in it" there brother.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Apr 4, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> The TR can be like Southern Baptists at times in that they will be shocked to find out that they are not the only group in heaven.



One of the Teaching Elders in our denomination likes to say, "You don't have to be Presbyterian to go to heaven. But why take a chance?" 

And seriously, there are shinning examples of Godliness on both "sides of the aisle" here at the PB. I count it a great blessing to be allowed to be a participant.


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## lwadkins (Apr 4, 2008)

I checked "strong Reformed leanings" as the best description for me. I had already committed to the WCF but had areas that needed deeper study for full understanding. It also took a while to distinguish the historical meaning of "Reformed" from the many meanings poured into the word by those who eschewed the historical definition and reinvented it.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> North Jersey Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Pergamum said:
> ...




I have a problem with your definition Daniel because there are many Baptists who are not Covenant Theologians but claim to be Reformed Baptists. I like What David Charles wrote concerning what a Reformed Baptist is. 

The five points of Reformed Baptist Churches « Reformed Baptist Fellowship

Reformational

Calvinistic

Puritan

Covenantal

Baptist


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > North Jersey Baptist said:
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I suppose I was arguing from the perspective that what made the Reformed historically distinctive from Episcopalians and Lutherans was adherence to the regulative principle, while all sides were (initially at least) Calvinisitic in their soteriology. However, with the rise of Dispensationalism, it may be necessary to add some sort of commitment to Covenant Theology as well. I dunno?  Mind you, is it possible to be a Calvinist at all and hold to Dispensationalism (at least the early, extreme forms of it - I would grant that Progressive Dispensationalists could be Calvinists?).


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## DMcFadden (Apr 4, 2008)

John MacArthur emerged from seminary as a standard issue dispensationalist. Of late, most would acknowledge him to be a Calvinist. As for his dispensationalism, it is a very "leaky" (to use his own term) kind these days. Nevertheless, his Shepherd's conference message last year argued that Calvinists should be consistent and become premillennial.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Apr 4, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> John MacArthur emerged from seminary as a standard issue dispensationalist. Of late, most would acknowledge him to be a Calvinist. As for his dispensationalism, it is a very "leaky" (to use his own term) kind these days. Nevertheless, his Shepherd's conference message last year argued that Calvinists should be consistent and become premillennial.



Premillennial, but not Dispensationalist. Remember there are/have been Presbyterian premills as well (Bonar and M'Cheyne).


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