# Girl Scout Use of Education Building



## Clark-Tillian (Jul 23, 2014)

Someone just asked me for permission to ask the Session (tonight!) to use our church's educational building as a site for Girl Scout troop meetings. 
As pastor/moderator, I'm going to advocate a 2 month study committee to report in September (we don't meet in August). 
I'm leaning toward advocating a standing policy of zero civic groups being allowed access to use of buildings.

I'm wondering if any other churches/Sessions/boards etc. have recently allowed such activities on church premises? 
If so, have there been negative repercussions?

There is a great deal of contradictory info on the USA Scouting programs on/in the Web.
Advice, experience and prayers greatly appreciated.


----------



## Miss Marple (Jul 23, 2014)

The Girl Scouts are a feminist, abortion and homosexuality promoting organization.

Individual leaders may be quite nice. But the organization as it is, no.

I'd hate to see you ban all civic groups. It would seem to me to be a very positive outreach to your community.

You're a church; you're allowed to discriminate. At least for now.


----------



## Romans922 (Jul 23, 2014)

The Church is for the worship of God's people and the gathering for that use. It is wise to not associate the church with civil/secular groups even if they be something like Crisis Pregnancy Centers. Now that is not to say, a Pastor can't say, a good place for you to check out would be Crisis Pregnancy Centers. But it is to say that outside groups not be directly associated with the Church of Jesus Christ. 

Having a zero tolerance policy would protect you legally too I would assume from groups where you would allow one (anti-abortion) and not another (pro-abortion for example).


----------



## Miss Marple (Jul 23, 2014)

Without meaning to be contentious, and I am not an attorney, from my experience the church still has liberty to do whatever wants in terms of its physical plant, as it has 1st Amendment protections, which bakers and photographers USED to have. Perhaps they still do if they win their appeals. They are winning some, losing some, as the homosexual agenda in particular pushes in this area. Cases are progressing to the Supreme Court.

It is my understanding that they can rent, or allow use for free, solely to groups that meet their criteria, without fear of legal prosecution and without having to defend their criteria. Not true of most businesses at this point, it seems, but still true of churches. 

No churches at this point are being forced to allow any group or individual they don't want to use their building or services. Not that I know of. I don't even know of it being so much as tried. That liberty is very well established.


----------



## Jack K (Jul 23, 2014)

A church building is a resource. It can be used for multiple purposes of the church. It does not have to be just for worship services or church teaching. For example, it can also provide office space. It can house relief services in times of trouble. And it can support evangelistic efforts and connection-making with neighbors, which are good activities of the church.

If you want people from the community to feel comfortable coming to your building for a church service, it often helps to get them coming for other reasons first. Letting community groups use the building is one way to accomplish this. It helps to create connections. People visiting for a community group event will meet church members, see literature that's set up, or even pick up and read Bibles. In many cases, they'll discover that the church is not as crazy or intimidating as they thought it was, and they'll see (we hope) that the people are welcoming and good-hearted. Sometimes when God brings an event in their lives that causes them to consider Him, they'll then seek out a pastor at the church where they feel some connection. In short, having a building with meeting space can be a way to show kindness to the community, make contacts with neighbors, and begin relationships that may lead to conversions.

Of course, you want to evaluate those groups so that the church is not supporting evil, and this can be tricky. It will require work to actually get to know the church's neighbors and the groups they are a part of. It may be that most groups are inappropriate, or that finding ways to go out into the community is wiser than inviting the community in. But a blanket policy of no outsiders is often part a church that's insulated rather than a "salty" one, and it can end up steering people who may be seeking God to other places. I know too many churches that don't take basic steps to be open and kind to the community, and then wonder why God so seldom brings people who just show up at the front door on Sunday mornings.


----------



## Clark-Tillian (Jul 23, 2014)

Thanks for the responses thus far. All good food for thought. I'm trying to think 10-20 years down the line and not just our current situation. Quite a tricky task as each current month/week can be complicated.


----------



## Hemustincrease (Jul 23, 2014)

If the body of Christ was meeting in your home, rather than a separate building, would you permit the Girl Scouts to hold their meetings within it? The building isn’t the ‘church’ of course; the believer’s who meet there are, but nonetheless, it is set apart, by said believers, as a place where Jesus is Lord, just as the individual homes of His people are and I for one, would never permit the modern day Girl Scout movement to hold their meetings in my home, anymore than I would permit Muslims to hold any of their meetings in my home. 

Just offering a different way of looking at things.


----------



## Edward (Jul 23, 2014)

Clark-Tillian said:


> As pastor/moderator, I'm going to advocate a 2 month study committee to report in September



A wise approach, but that might not be enough time to draft a policy unless you can borrow and adapt one. Perhaps they can report back then with recommendations, and a policy can then be drawn up. 

There are probably a number of folks who might be ignorant of what has happened with scouting, so education should probably be part of the equation. 



Clark-Tillian said:


> I'm leaning toward advocating a standing policy of zero civic groups being allowed access to use of buildings.



May avoid some problems and create some problems. 



Romans922 said:


> The Church is for the worship of God's people and the gathering for that use.



Brother, it's pretty basic Presbyterian 101 that the church is the people, not the building. We aren't Catholics or Episcopalians who consecrate and de-consecrate our buildings. (And I guess I'm showing my age - RCs now have a 'Rite of Dedication' rather than a 'Rite of Consecration' for buildings. ) We don't (or shouldn't) have sanctuaries.


----------



## Clark-Tillian (Jul 23, 2014)

Well, a compromise of sorts was reached. A study group is in place--with one or two other persons for recruitment--and will report at a Called Meeting in August.
Indeed, the short notice was unavoidable but does complicate the issue. I'm not at all certain of exactly what's going on with the GSA. Boy Scouts I'm more familiar with at the moment. The Session is a somewhat split but open to research--which is all I recommended. I'm a very strong advocate of the line of demarcation between the RE and TE aspects of the elderate and I respect and honor the complimentary distinctions. I consistently teach that strong REs are the backbone of the Church and I see one of my primary roles as teaching the REs the ramifications of their governance. Painfully, the TE often must take the role of the "doomsaying chap in the black coat and tie". But that's part and parcel of the call to the pulpit. I did choose Ezekiel 3 as the Sessional devotional for specific reasons this evening. 

Your prayers and thoughts are kindly appreciated. And please--the more responses the better!


----------



## Edward (Jul 24, 2014)

Girl Scouts let in 'transgended' boys. Girl Scouts accepts transgender kid, provokes cookie boycott - CNN.com

"Girl Scouts upholds diversity and inclusiveness and does not discriminate or recruit on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, *sexual orientation*, socioeconomic status, national origin, or physical or developmental disability." Sensitive Issues FAQs

Girl Scouts support the Komen organization, a major supporter of abortion provider Planned Parenthood "As part of the Think Pink Bracelet, the Girl Scouts hand-made over 1,200 pink bracelets for the Susan G. Komen for the CureÒ Greater Fort Worth Affiliate." Susan G. Komen celebrates Girl Scouts program

also see : Girl Scouts


----------



## Clark-Tillian (Jul 25, 2014)

Edward said:


> Girl Scouts let in 'transgended' boys. Girl Scouts accepts transgender kid, provokes cookie boycott - CNN.com
> 
> "Girl Scouts upholds diversity and inclusiveness and does not discriminate or recruit on the basis of race, religion, ethnicity, *sexual orientation*, socioeconomic status, national origin, or physical or developmental disability." Sensitive Issues FAQs
> 
> ...




Yes, indeed. As soon as I received the request I did an hour's worth of research and discovered much of the same. The gents on my Session do not think about Girl Scout related issues that much. As a TE, that's why I wanted a Study Group formed. Those involved can then discover these matters on their own initiative, as opposed to me heavy-handing the situation as a mini-pontiff. We intend to gather materials and then the Session can make an informed decision. I think that's in keeping with careful Presbyterian polity. I do admit that being a mini-pontiff has a bit of an allure at times (joke alert!), but I firmly believe that Presbyterianism is a revealed truth and that calls for restraint, prayer and pastoral care on my part.


----------



## BJClark (Jul 28, 2014)

If it is a member within your Church asking you may suggest they look into Heritage Girls as an alternative, but if it's not then I would say NO, to the groups as a whole--if you say no to all groups less chance of a discrimination lawsuit--which given their feminist and homosexual support would most certainly come.


----------



## Miss Marple (Jul 28, 2014)

Would this not serve the hopes of our common enemy, to keep us insular and uninvolved in our local community? Should the Samaritan have avoided the certain man who fell by robbers by the wayside?

Galatians 6:10

"As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith."

Especially; but not exclusively.


----------

