# What is happening to the Presbyterian church???



## cupotea (Nov 10, 2004)

[edited to remove link]

_Admins note - this article is not appropriate for posting on this board. Although it is satire, it is not funny and borders on being pornographic in nature. It is crude and coarse and therefore certainly falls under the realm of violating Ephesians 5:4.

-- Phillip _


[Edited on 11-10-04 by pastorway]


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## crhoades (Nov 10, 2004)

I'm not sure if you were joking with this post...

If you look closely at the website and the home page, every article is either a parody ala The Door or deeply offensive to all Christians. Something tells me that this was a fabricated story. I'll try checking the facts on this one.


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## cupotea (Nov 10, 2004)

It was, Chris. It is a satirical website, and I think that the articles are all funny. A little irreverent, perhaps, but funny - especially for those in the Church with a sense of humor.

*THAT ARTICLE IS NOT REALLY NEWS! IT IS SATIRE!*

I don't want people to start writing letters to their presbytery or anything.

:bigsmile:


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## cupotea (Nov 10, 2004)

> "ABOUT LARK NEWS
> Larknews was founded in Denver, Colorado, in 1956 as the local church newsletter for Flatiron Community Church, but its breadth of stories stirred wider interest, and by 1963 Larknews was being mailed to subscribers in 44 states and Canada. Since then the "little newsletter that could" has grown to 45,000 postal subscribers, and now, with the 2003 launch of Larknews.com, will reach potentially millions worldwide.
> Larknews' mission remains to publish cutting edge news on topics of interest to Christians. Our main offices are located in downtown Denver. Let us know how we're doing by dropping us an e-mail. "


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## crhoades (Nov 10, 2004)

This prompted me to check out the PCUSA's website and I started looking through the 215th General Assembly News (http://www.pcusa.org/ga215/news.htm and ran across this story.

http://www.pcusa.org/ga215/news/ga03106.htm

GA03106

*Post-viability abortion policy unchanged*

Commissioners add expression of concern about lives of unborn

by Jerry L. Van Marter



Editor's Note: See more GA highlights. The video icon indicates a short clip has been added to this story. Click the icon to see the clip in Windows Media Player. 

DENVER, May 29 "” After 45 minutes of restrained, civil debate, the 215th General Assembly on Thursday adopted a statement on late-term abortion that affirmed the action of last year´s Assembly on the controversial subject, but added a new expression of concern for the lives of the unborn.

The final vote on the measure, which had been recommended by the Assembly Committee on Health Issues, was 405-108. It came after a more restrictive minority report was voted down, 205-315.

Elder Ken Thorson, of the Presbytery of the James, the committee moderator, told his fellow commissioners that the panel "œcame to appreciate the 214th Assembly´s work. The committee seeks to affirm that statement and adds Biblical emphasis on the sanctity of life."


That added emphasis came in the form of three sentences added to last year´s statement.

The Assembly added the following near the top of the paper: "œThe church "¦ affirms the value of children and the importance of nurturing, protecting and advocating their well-being. The church, therefore, appreciates the challenge each woman and family face when issues of personal well-being arise in the later stages of a pregnancy."

The revised paper concludes with the third added sentence: "œWhen it is deemed necessary to end a pregnancy to protect the mother´s life or health in the later months of pregnancy, when the baby may be able to live outside the womb, a procedure should be considered which gives both the mother and the child the opportunity to live."

The measure the commissioners approved preserves language stipulating four circumstances under which post-viability abortion can be an acceptable moral choice: "œwhen necessary to save the life of the woman, to preserve the woman´s health in circumstances of a serious risk "¦ to avoid fetal suffering as a result of untreatable life-threatening medical anomalies, or in cases of incest or rape."

The committee voted down, 353-150, a motion to remove rape and incest from the list of acceptable circumstances.

The minority report didn´t include any of those circumstances, and said procedures should be "œchosen," not "œconsidered," in cases of termination of post-viability pregnancy.

The commissioners apparently were not persuaded by Alison Lucic, of San Diego Presbytery, a youth advisory delegate, speaking in favor of the minority report, who argued that "œthis is not a pro-life or pro-choice issue, but counsels people to choose what is right."

In other actions, the Assembly:

Rejected an overture that would have barred the Board of Pensions from paying for late-term abortions without extensive additional red tape; 
Overwhelmingly approved a review of the Presbyterian Health, Education and Welfare Association (PHEWA) that affirms that the covenant between the organization and the church´s National Ministries Division is working well. PHEWA has come under periodic criticism for not being financially self-supporting, and for openly dissenting from the General Assembly´s policy prohibiting the ordination of non-celibate gays and lesbians


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## crhoades (Nov 10, 2004)

And this one...

GA03096

*Luncheon launches gay seminarians network*

New group links gay, lesbian, bisexual, transgender students and alums

by Vicki Fogel Mykles 


DENVER, May 29 "” More than 70 women and men gathered Thursday for the first Assembly luncheon meeting of a new organization called the Presbyterian Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Seminarians, Alums and Allies Network. 
Leaders of the newly formed group said it will be known acronymically, not as PLGBTSAAN, but as LGBT.

The first of what are expected to be annual meetings was sponsored by More Light Presbyterians, That All May Freely Serve, and the Shower of Stoles Project.

Surrounded by a rainbow of stoles, the participants discussed the issue of full inclusion of LGBT Presbyterians in the life of the Presbyterian Church (USA), including ordination, and heard reports from several grass-roots organizations from Presbyterian seminaries.

The luncheon included a brief original performance work, "œLove According to Luc," presented by its author, Alicia Matthewson. Combining humor and angst, it tells a coming-of-age story about a young divinity student who finds herself struggling with her love for God, her sense of call and a lesbian relationship. Score and lyrics by Matthewson incorporated suggestions of Stephen Sondheim and African-American gospel hymns. 

All PC(USA) seminaries have LGBT contacts for students, alums and friends. For more information, visit the Web sites www.mlp.org and www.tamfs.org.


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## crhoades (Nov 10, 2004)

http://www.pcusa.org/ga215/news/ga03078.htm

GA03078

"˜God is on the move´ "” 
and PC(USA) must keep up

1987 moderator speaks of challenge posed by non-Christian faiths

by Evan Silverstein



DENVER, May 27 "” Protestant views are no longer the norm in the United States, and Christians must work to find new ways to respond to those who do not recognize Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. 

That was the message former Presbyterian General Assembly Moderator Isabel Wood Rogers brought Tuesday to a group of retired ministers, their spouses and survivors.

"œA century ago, it must have been wonderful. Our forbear said, "˜We are going to win the world for Christ in one generation,´" said Rogers, moderator of the 199th General Assembly (1987). 

Rogers spoke on Serving a God on the Move at the General Assembly luncheon of the 
Association of Retired Ministers, Their Spouses or Survivors (ARMSS).

"œGod is on the move, and we must move, too," she said. "œThis is a God who prefers a tent. And when God strikes that tent and moves on, we have to do likewise. This is not a static God who´s untouched by the events of history. This is the God who is not only involved in events, but who moves with the times."

Before the 1950s, Rogers said, "œwe pretty much assumed that the world was destined to take on a Christian" look. 

"œCertainly in this nation Protestants dominated "” Protestant values, Protestant ways."

The increased prominence of religions that don´t view Christ as Lord and Savior have wrought "œradical change" in that vision in the past 50 years, she said.

"œAnd those folks out there are not waiting to be made over in our Christian pattern," she added. "œThey know they serve God, and they are going to make us over in their pattern."

"œHow do we respond to this new thing that God has thrust upon us?" she asked. "œHow can we serve Christ faithfully and still work with these other folks as we try to face our world´s multiple tragedies?"

She noted that two previous Assemblies have faced the difficult question of whether Christ is the only way to salvation. "œEach time," she said, "œthey have said something like, "˜Christ is Lord of all. God gives redemption through Jesus Christ.´ But we´re not willing to claim that a sovereign God can´t redeem folks apart from Jesus Christ"

Rogers said this is a matter of each individual´s personal faith, "œbut I do think we have to face the matter honestly."

"œI think we have to recognize that God has brought us into a new day, and we must witness to Jesus Christ with integrity in the way that speaks of this day. God moves on. God moves us on. We have to face it."


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## crhoades (Nov 10, 2004)

The hits just keep on comin'

http://www.pcusa.org/ga215/news/ga03042.htm

*Covenant Network not ready to "˜call the question´*

by Bill Lancaster



DENVER, May 26 "” Rev. Joanna Adams, vice moderator of the Covenant Network of Presbyterians and co-pastor of Fourth Presbyterian Church in Chicago, said during the Covenant Network´s annual General Assembly luncheon that the organization remains committed to the removal from the Book of Order of G-6.0106b, the provision that says officers of the Presbyterian Church (USA) must be faithful in marriage between a man and a woman or chaste in singleness.

However, Adams added, "œWe do not want to call the question until we have the votes to win. We do not want another negative vote. We do not want to send out another message that we are still locked into the flawed policy of exclusion."

The Rev. Tim Hart Anderson, pastor of Westminster Presbyterian Church, of Minneapolis, MN, was the keynote speaker at the Covenant Network luncheon. Photo by David P. Young. 

For the year ahead, she said, the Network will work "œto create a climate in which constitutional change can occur." She said the group has hired a staff person to reach out to presbyteries that have voted against removal.

"œNone of us can say to another part of the Body of Christ, "˜I have no need of you,´" she said.

Referring to her unwillingness to support Overture 03-07, from the Presbytery of Des Moines, Adams said she has been called a "œtowel thrower" by the Presbyterian Layman, a conservative independent publication, as in "œthrowing in the towel." The overture would delete G-6.0106a from the church constitution.

"œJohn Buchanan (co-pastor of Fourth Presbyterian in Chicago, a former Assembly moderator) told me I had been known as a flame thrower, but never a towel thrower," Adams said, adding, "œWe want to change the constitution, but we want a comprehensive strategy." 

She said the Network will focus on "œthe great middle" of the PC(USA). 

"œNo one is going to rest until there is not a single person who is categorically excluded," she said.

Rev. Tim Hart Anderson, pastor of Westminster Presbyterian Church, of Minneapolis, the featured speaker of the luncheon, traced the development of his thinking on the question of whether gays and lesbians should be granted full participation in the life of the church, including service as ministers of Word and Sacrament.

He said he was very discouraged after the 1996 Assembly in Albuquerque, when G-6.0106b was approved. But then he took a trip to Cuba, where the church existed under very difficult circumstances but did not give in to despair. Anderson said he saw a sign in a church in Cuba that read in Spanish, "œThere will be better times, but this is our time." This time, he said, is the time of the Covenant Network. 

Anderson recalled a hymn lyric that says "œthere is a wideness in God´s mercy that is wider than the sea." He said that God is calling gay and lesbian people to serve as pastors, and the church must get out of the way of the Holy Spirit.

"œI´m very competitive and I don´t like to lose," Anderson said, "œbut it´s probably good for us to be on the losing side for a while, and experience being a minority."

Anderson said the Rev. Janie Spahr, one of the most prominent advocates of gay and lesbian rights in the PC(USA), once told him, "œWelcome to the margin" "” then added, "œIt´s not actually the margin, it´s the horizon."

"œFriends, there will be better times, but this is our time," he concluded. "œThanks be to God."


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## Reformed1 (Nov 10, 2004)

Whether it is satire or not, the PCUSA is a largely liberal denomination. Unfortunately, they get the bulk of the press and give the rest of us a bad name


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## matt01 (Nov 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JesusFan_
> It was, Chris. It is a satirical website, and I think that the articles are all funny. A little irreverent, perhaps, but funny - especially for those in the Church with a sense of humor.
> 
> :bigsmile:



The article is not funny. It is disgusting.


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## Reformed1 (Nov 10, 2004)

> The article is not funny. It is disgusting.


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## cupotea (Nov 10, 2004)

I think it's irreverent, and the disgusting aspect of it is just due to the fact that the article recognizes the liberal direction of the PCUSA.


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