# Muslim Dream Evangelism



## CovenantalBaptist (Jul 15, 2010)

I had a congregant forward this to me. It rang a bell about something I'd heard about before, possibly even here, but my search skills couldn't find it. So, I was wondering if any of you have had more exposure to this kind of thing before. I'm wondering how widespread it is (I had heard something about it being promoted in an evangelical denomination) and if anyone has seen any proper (i.e. biblical) critique of it?


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## timmopussycat (Jul 15, 2010)

This sort of thing does seem to be happening within the Muslim world today. The dreams may be from the Holy Spirit if they are congruent with the Scripture but if somone in the dream is teaching aberrant theology the answer is "To the law and to the testimony."


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## larryjf (Jul 15, 2010)

I believe that Jesus was seen last of all by Paul...
_And last of all he was seen of me also... (1Co 15:8)_
So i treat accounts of seeing Christ as suspect

I would be inclined to ask:
How do they know they were looking at Jesus?
Since we don't really know what Jesus looked like there's really no way for them to objectively know that they are seeing Jesus at all.


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## sastark (Jul 15, 2010)

I had someone raise this at our midweek Bible study a few weeks ago. My reply was: "God is free to work in whatever way pleases Him; however, what did Jesus look like? What did he say? What was the end result of the 'dream'? If the Muslim converted to Roman Catholicism, then we can be assured the 'dream' was not from God. We must remember that the means of salvation ordained by God is the preaching of the Gospel, which is why we must support missionaries to Muslim countries. Also, if we rely on God to grant dreams to Muslims, it undercuts the value of missionaries. I would be highly suspect of any such dream and would want to examine the evidence in light of Scripture."

---------- Post added at 03:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:39 PM ----------




larryjf said:


> I believe that Jesus was seen last of all by Paul...
> _And last of all he was seen of me also... (1Co 15:8)_
> So i treat accounts of seeing Christ as suspect
> 
> ...


 
Larry, I completely agree with what you are saying ("How would they know it was Jesus?") but the verse to referenced could easily be interpreted as Paul was the last _of the apostles_ to see Jesus. It could also be compared with John on Patmos receiving the Revelation of Jesus which seems to have happened after He appeared to Saul on the road to Damascus.

Again, I agree with you, but wanted to help strengthen your argument.


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## Skyler (Jul 15, 2010)

Just for the record--you are correct, it has been brought up here before. It was a long time ago though, I don't remember exactly when, but I'm pretty sure it was brought up _en passant_ in a discussion on continuationism. Either that, or it sparked one--which is entirely possible. =)


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## ClayPot (Jul 15, 2010)

As previously mentioned, God can work in whatever way he wishes, but typically saves people through hearing the gospel via human messengers (Rom 10). I am hopeful that these types of stories are true, but why is it always that they heard of someone somewhere for whom this happened?


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## larryjf (Jul 15, 2010)

sastark said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> > I believe that Jesus was seen last of all by Paul...
> ...


 
The fact that the apostle John saw Christ on Patmos is a little different as John still saw Christ before Paul....before John was sent to Patmos.

The reason that i don't think it's referring to Paul being the last to see Christ specifically as an apostle is because of the context used in the passage...

_And that he was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, he was seen of James; then of all the apostles. And last of all he was seen of me also, as of one born out of due time. (1Co 15:5-8)
_

We see here that it is not only the apostles that Paul is referring to as seeing the risen Lord, but also 500 others. This broad spectrum of witnesses tells me that Paul is referring to the last "of all" to see Christ...not just the last "of the apostles" to see Him.

But i get what you're saying.


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## David (Jul 16, 2010)

More Than Dreams said:


> For decades, a phenomenon has been recurring in the Muslim world. Men and women – *without any knowledge of the Gospel and without any contact with Christians* – have been forever transformed after experiencing dreams and visions of Jesus Christ. Reports of these supernatural occurrences often come from “closed countries” where preaching the Gospel is forbidden and where converting to Christianity can invoke the death sentence.


This confuses me in light of Romans 10:14-17. I had thought this literally meant that salvation comes only by the hearing of the Gospel? In any case, if these people are genuinely saved, I am overjoyed.



Romans 10:14-17 said:


> How then will they call on him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without someone preaching? And how are they to preach unless they are sent? As it is written, "How beautiful are the feet of those who preach the good news!" But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Isaiah says, "Lord, who has believed what he has heard from us?" So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ.


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## sastark (Jul 16, 2010)

larryjf said:


> The fact that the apostle John saw Christ on Patmos is a little different as John still saw Christ before Paul....before John was sent to Patmos.
> 
> The reason that i don't think it's referring to Paul being the last to see Christ specifically as an apostle is because of the context used in the passage...
> 
> ...


 
That is a very good point about the "500 others". I had not considered that before. Thanks!


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## SRoper (Jul 16, 2010)

I've watched two of the episodes of the series mentioned in the first post. I'm not sure what all the excitement about dreams is about. The papists have way cooler stories about miracles and visions anyway.


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## jambo (Jul 16, 2010)

RCs are big on visions but this only serves to make them better RCs rather than converting to Christianity. But of all other faiths, I have heard of this quite a number of times of Moslems being converted through dreams. Initially I was quite cynical about it but the Lord in his own sovereign way can touch people and those converts seem to have experienced some change. I am uncomfortable with it but there does seem to be some genuine conversions according to the reports. 

If you are living in the middle of an Islamic Republic you are not likely to hear someone standing on the street corner openly proclaiming the gospel. However groups like FEBA radio, Satellite 7 etc broadcast radio and TV channels into those "closed" countries and only time will tell how effective this has been. 

Although dreams are something I would be wary of and it does not fit in with my general theology or method of evangelism, yet I am not naive to put God into a box and say he can only work this way or that way. By whatever way a person comes to Christ, be it a dream, by hearing the word preached or by simply reading the scriptures, no one can be converted unless the Holy Spirit transforms those whom God has elected. After conversion, the sincerity of it is proved by their fruits.


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## Pergamum (Jul 17, 2010)

Dreams of the Prophet Jesus in the Muslim world are very widespread. 

In some regions fully 15-20% of those who eventually come to Christ count dreams of Jesus as very influential in their conversion. The latest edition of _Heartcry Missionary Society's _magazine features the testimonies of two former Muslims who count dreams as influential in their conversion process: 

Heart Cry 65

We can count these dreams as providential and need not consider them to be new revelations. They do not devalue the work of missionaries, but (after the example of Cornelius in the book of Acts) usually act as a catalyst that either helps the dreamer to seek out more knowledge about Jesus or removes walls of barriers when an evangelist approaches the Muslim.

These dreams ARE happening. I do not think we can dismiss them all or criticise them all; a great number of true Christians have experienced these dreams as part of their journey and these former Muslims now continue to bear fruit.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 17, 2010)

I noticed that the website has no doctrinal statement or affiliation mentioned. Proceed with caution. This dream evangelism is big with the NAR crowd. They actually pray for this to happen.


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## LawrenceU (Jul 17, 2010)

Heart Cry is the missions group started by Paul Washer. They are about as solid as you can get.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 17, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> Heart Cry is the missions group started by Paul Washer. They are about as solid as you can get.



Forgive me if I'm missing something, but when I clicked on all of the buttons to the linked site, I didn't see anything about Heart Cry or Paul Washer. I'm referring to the OP, not Pergamum's post. I know PW is solid.


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## catechumen (Jul 18, 2010)

There was an interesting interview conducted by R Scott Clark on his Office Hours program with Fikret Bocek, a missionary working in Turkey. There is a link to it on Heidelblog, where in the comments section Fikret deals with this whole issue. He is deeply sceptical, hasn't seen any evidence of it where he is, and highlights the large role that such dreams of a 'man with a beard' play in traditional Middle Eastern cultures. As he rightly states, how can any Muslim repent without the preaching of the Word?


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## Jack K (Jul 18, 2010)

Pergamum said:


> Dreams of the Prophet Jesus in the Muslim world are very widespread.
> 
> In some regions fully 15-20% of those who eventually come to Christ count dreams of Jesus as very influential in their conversion. The latest edition of _Heartcry Missionary Society's _magazine features the testimonies of two former Muslims who count dreams as influential in their conversion process:
> 
> ...



I grew up as a missionary kid among Native Americans, and dreams had a role in a handful of conversions we saw as well. In cultures that take such things seriously, God does seem to use them at times. This does not mean that they never hear the gospel or that it's relegated to lesser status. It just means that God providentially uses the events in our lives to open us up to the gospel, and those events may include our dreams.


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## toddpedlar (Jul 25, 2010)

Does anyone claim that these Muslims who supposedly have these dreams are saved before they actually hear the gospel? I don't know much about this - though heard it mentioned today. I'm certainly skeptical, but I can't see any reason that God might use such means to direct elect to those who are able to preach the gospel to them.


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## Pergamum (Jul 25, 2010)

Todd, no one is claiming that these dreams are saving in and of themselves, but that they may act as a sort of Cornelius-type event by which resistance to the Gospel is removed and the dreamer is readied or made curious about Jesus and prepared to receive the Gospel or a Gospel Messenger.


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## steadfast7 (Jul 26, 2010)

Let's say these dreams were genuine, would this mean a reconsideration of the Reformed position that God no longer speaks to individuals today, except through scripture?


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