# Read this... and you will never be Christian ever again



## arooke (Oct 24, 2012)

Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Contra_Mundum (Oct 24, 2012)

Is there something missing from the title to your post? Or have you included all the right words to convey your intent?

What does reading a Wikipedia article on the subject of Cognitive dissonance have to do with being (or not being) a Christian?

Or what kind of impact do you believe the subject of Cognitive Dissonance has on Christian faith and practice? And why?


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 24, 2012)

I spent a year formally dealing with the topic in its existential expressions. Cognitive dissonance refers to something that happens within a person, it doesn't decide between truth claims. So how does it affect the veracity of Christian belief?


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## sevenzedek (Oct 24, 2012)

I am experiencing some dissonance regarding your title. That there are many members on this board who love God, and given the fact there are many promises of God in his word does much to silence your contrary message. Huh huh huh!


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## JohnGill (Oct 24, 2012)

arooke said:


> Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



I don't get it. Does this have to do with you not having a signature block?


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 24, 2012)

JohnGill said:


> arooke said:
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> > Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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I'm in Fairbanks right now. So cold. Going to Chena Hot Springs tomorrow.


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## AThornquist (Oct 24, 2012)

Somebuddeh be trollin'. He must have gotten the PB mixed up with a Youtube comment section.


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## JohnGill (Oct 24, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> JohnGill said:
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Cold?? It's only around -10F. Still shorts and t-shirt weather. 

When you go to CHS bring your camera, you might get some good shots of the aurora. I think it may be out. And make sure you sit in the outside hot tub. It's not as much fun at zero as it is as -40F. More importantly watch out for moose on your way there. How long you up here for? If until the weekend I'll buy you a coffee.


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 24, 2012)

JohnGill said:


> SolaScriptura said:
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Coming from Anchorage... I'm a softie. It hurt to breathe this morning. 

My plane departs for ANC at 5pm on Friday. I'm at CHS leading a singles' retreat. If you want to drive out I'll get you a pass for the water and we can smoke stogies and talk Jesus while we look at the light show.


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## JohnGill (Oct 24, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> JohnGill said:
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Yeah, the air sucks the moisture out of your breath. Everyone's a softy when they get here; especially us Texans. 

I'll see if I can arrange it, otherwise we'll do it sometime when I'm around J-Bear.

If you can do it, head out to the Knottie Shop. It's out past Eielson AFB. Worth seeing at least once.

Hope your trip to CHS is fun and don't pet the moose.


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## sevenzedek (Oct 24, 2012)

How about those stink bugs? They don't like the cold either. They're knocking on my door, asking for a place to stay. I tell 'em, I tell 'em, "Go away, man. No room for you here. Now git!"


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## JohnGill (Oct 24, 2012)

sevenzedek said:


> How about those stink bugs? They don't like the cold either. They're knocking on my door, asking for a place to stay. I tell 'em, I tell 'em, "Go away, man. No room for you here. Now git!"



We have stink bugs for a bit during the summer. Then the state bird kills them. The mosquito.


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## AThornquist (Oct 24, 2012)

Mosquitos kill stink bugs? Hmm. All I know about stink bugs is that the ones around my old high school in CA smelled pretty cool, so me and a girl in my class would pass them back and forth and smell 'em until the stank was gone. True story.


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## Andres (Oct 24, 2012)

I'll assume you're referring to the following from the article. I read it and I'm still a Christian. In all seriousness, you don't really think the below quote applies to Christianity, do you? 

"Perhaps the most famous case in the early study of cognitive dissonance was described by Leon Festinger and others in the book When Prophecy Fails.[7] The authors infiltrated a religious group that was expecting the imminent end of the world on a certain date. When that date passed without the world ending, the movement did not disband. Instead, the group came to believe that they had been spared in order to spread their teachings to others, a justification that resolved the conflict between their previous expectations and reality."


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## Gavin (Oct 24, 2012)

"Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain. Therefore let no man glory in men." 1 Corinthians 3: 18


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## Gavin (Oct 24, 2012)

“Nor is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved.” (Acts 4:12)

“For there is one God and one Mediator between God and men, the Man Christ Jesus, who gave Himself a ransom for all …” (1 Timothy 2:5)

“There is one body and one Spirit … one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” (Ephesians 4:4)

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” (John 14:6)

“I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and find pasture … I have come that they may have life, and that they may have it more abundantly.” (John 10:9)

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.” (John 11:25)

Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, “I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life.” (John 8:12)

And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.” (John 6:35)

“I am the living bread which came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread, he will live forever; and the bread that I shall give is My flesh, which I shall give for the life of the world.” (John 6:51)

“… whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” (John 3:15-16)

“He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him.” (John 3:36)

“Therefore I said to you that you will die in your sins; for if you do not believe that I am He, you will die in your sins.” (John 8:24)

“Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death to life.” (John 5:24)

“… And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life and this life is in His Son. He who has the Son has life; He who does not have the Son of God does not have life.” (1 John 5:11)

“And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent the Son as Savior of the world. Whoever confesses that Jesus is the Son of God, God abides in him, and he in God.” (1 John 4:14)

Now whats all this about Cognitive dissonance?


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## sevenzedek (Oct 24, 2012)

AThornquist said:


> Mosquitos kill stink bugs? Hmm. All I know about stink bugs is that the ones around my old high school in CA smelled pretty cool, so me and a girl in my class would pass them back and forth and smell 'em until the stank was gone. True story.



Wow. That is hilar.


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## OPC'n (Oct 24, 2012)

I hear the same thing happens when you sing backwards


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## The Apologetic Thomas (Oct 24, 2012)

Non-believers do this all of the time.
Like the smoker in the example:
"It is widely accepted that cigarettes can cause lung cancer, and smokers must reconcile their habit with the desire to live long and healthy lives." So as a sort of defense mechanism they deny the "evidence linking smoking to lung cancer, or justify one's smoking through rationalization."

Atheists deny God because they know they have to give an account before Him. Others (eg. professors, excuse-makers) try to justify their sins rather than dealing with them.

Happens all of the time.


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## ZackF (Oct 24, 2012)

arooke said:


> Cognitive dissonance - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



Should we read this in order to gain access/membership to web forums that otherwise wouldn't have us?


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## sevenzedek (Oct 24, 2012)

Perhaps Arooke would like to clarify a few things for us.

What are your intentions Mr. Arooke?


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## John Bunyan (Oct 24, 2012)

I'm still a christian. Seems like this article's magic isn't working anymore.

BTW, one must notice that, even if this article were pertinent, to explain someone's reason to believe in something, or the origin of this belief, does nothing to establish it's truth-value. To pretend that psychology can even be important in discovering the truth of some religious system is just to commit the genetic fallacy - when lazy people say "hey, you only think this-and-that because of that-and-this, therefore your belief is false!" <- that just doesn't follow.


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## a mere housewife (Oct 24, 2012)

I read that article recently, for some reason. I recognise myself in it. But it was nothing new. That we seek to live in a peaceful congruence with the commitments we hold most dear is something Christianity teaches and affirms. That our interpretations of the world around us are driven by conflicting commitments within, some of which we are not fully aware; that doubt about our affirmed commitments troubles us deeply; and that we resolve the conflict by changing our affirmations or interpreting data more consistently with them -- holding more entirely to them -- also not something new to the Christian. It's called the trial of our faith that works patience, experience, hope.

There have been various times in my life where I felt I was truly going insane because I mistook the meaning of God's word and all of reality is then called into question. But the Word of our Savior keeps us even when we do not know how to keep it. Those wound up being some of the most precious experiences of my life, when I learned most about the faithfulness of the Friend who stands by His own words when we falter in doing so, who never leaves us or forsakes us. My experience of my Savior is too rich and deep to be altered by fallible words in a changeable article written by people who are committed to affirming their own belief systems. I will live and die by the unalterable words of my Lord, because He will not let me go.


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## Contra_Mundum (Oct 24, 2012)

In fairness, perhaps the poster was trying to make the opposite statement (he never replied to requests to clarify his intent).

Perhaps he was being *ironic* with his title. Perhaps he meant to expose the atheistical dilemma of living with constant cognitive dissonance, ala Rom.1:19, 28.

I think Ben's first reply at the top addresses the fact that the concept of CD doesn't arbitrate between competing truth-claims.


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## Bill The Baptist (Oct 24, 2012)

I am a bit perplexed by your post. Were you trying to be funny or ironic? Or did you deceive your way into membership on this board just so you could post this "smoking gun" against Christianity? I am just a bit confused because this is what you wrote in your profile:

Born in East Melbourne, in 1994, to non-christian parents, one non-religious one buddhist. Lived in Melbourne my entire life and currently in year 12, the final year of high school.
After becoming a "Christian" in December 2011 started attending church but essentially believed in works-based pelagianism. 
Finally heard the arminian "gospel" in March this year, however later on discovered the Doctrines of Grace. In attempting to discuss reformed doctrine at my church was shut down decisively. Unfortunately I did not fully grasp the glory of God in the doctrines of grace, only saw perseverance of the saints as more comforting than the arminian belief of perseverance of some saints.
Recently have began to appreciate the glory of God far more fully, especially in unconditional election. Will soon start attending a different church, Hill's Bible Church, a baptist church which teaches reformed doctrine. 

Which is the real you?


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## JimmyH (Oct 24, 2012)

I thought people who apply for membership to this board are required to give a profession of faith ? To give a reason for the hope that is in them. For believers The Spirit gives witness to our spirit. Any cognitive dissonance seems to me to come later when we get into controversy over translations and doctrine. I think those who can say "My hope depends on nothing less than Jesus blood and righteousness" will be there to meet Him in the air on that day regardless.


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## Berean (Oct 24, 2012)

Maybe a good first post would be an introduction with a signature. Just sayin'.


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## KMK (Oct 24, 2012)

> Contra_Mundum said:
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> > In fairness, perhaps the poster was trying to make the opposite statement (he never replied to requests to clarify his intent).
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Potato references never play well on PB.


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 24, 2012)

Yep still a christian, CHECK MATE ATHEISTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Supersillymanable (Oct 25, 2012)

Surely this could be retitled, "Read this... You'll never be an atheist ever again" .


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## Somerset (Oct 25, 2012)

Perhaps the OP is "post modern". Though as someone who struggles with modern, post modern is beyond me.


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## bookslover (Oct 25, 2012)

The writer of the OP is from Australia. That explains everything...


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## Somerset (Oct 25, 2012)

bookslover said:


> The writer of the OP is from Australia. That explains everything...


Perhaps kicked by a kangaroo once too often.


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## sevenzedek (Oct 25, 2012)

Supersillymanable said:


> Surely this could be retitled, "Read this... You'll never be an atheist ever again" .



How about, "Read This And I Will Never Write Another Post Again."


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## Phil D. (Oct 25, 2012)

Folks,

If one takes the time to read the "About Me" page for the poster, it would indeed appear they are a professing believer. Thus the "irony" option seems the most likely and charitable read on the OP.


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## JohnGill (Oct 25, 2012)

Potatoes aside, I don't understand how a UFO cult or even an end-times prophecy cult and cognitive dissonance do anything to disprove Christianity. Seems the latter one only proves the truth of Christ's words about no man knowing the day. I do see cognitive dissonance play out in the philosophy of evolutionism.


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## Gavin (Oct 25, 2012)

bookslover said:


> The writer of the OP is from Australia. That explains everything...



Aw, Come on guys


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## OPC'n (Oct 25, 2012)

Gavin said:


> bookslover said:
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I agree! We are suppose to love each other and our neighbor.


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## a mere housewife (Oct 25, 2012)

Group hug.

Arooke, I thought perhaps you might have struggled with the article (which is not unheard of for a Christian). Regardless, please be assured that we like Australians around here . Welcome to the board.


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## Rufus (Oct 25, 2012)

Not sure if being trolled or person with serious question...


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## Goodcheer68 (Oct 25, 2012)

Rufus said:


> Not sure if being trolled or person with serious question...


It is kind of strange he hasn't replied since his single post, but his info seems to indicate more than a troll. For instance, he mentions the local church he attends and states the type of church it is, etc. We will see...


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## Edward (Oct 25, 2012)

Rufus said:


> Not sure if being trolled or person with serious question



It's been a couple of days with no follow up posts and no posts to other threads. I agree with Mr. Derkson and Mr. Brink that he seemed to have put a lot of work into his bio page if he's a one-shot troll, but evidence is tending that way.


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## matt01 (Oct 29, 2012)

Edward said:


> Rufus said:
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I probably wouldn't have posted again if that was the welcome I had received. It might be wise to give people the benefit of the doubt-particularily when they sound like new Christians or newly reformed.


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## raekwon (Oct 29, 2012)

Trolled big-time.


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## Somerset (Oct 29, 2012)

OPC'n said:


> Gavin said:
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Poms and diggers have always pulled each other's legs - hopefully we always will be close enough to keep doing it.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Oct 29, 2012)

*Moderation*

We're done here. Move along. Nothing to see.


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