# Nature of Excommunication



## louis_jp (Jan 23, 2014)

What kind of disassociation is required toward excommunicated members? Once they are put out of the church, to what degree are remaining members allowed to speak to or interact with them? 

The ARP Standards state that excommunication "does not destroy the bonds of natural and civil relations. Nor does [it] relieve [members] of their Christian responsibility to witness to the love of God to the [excommunicated] person." What exactly does that mean/entail? Is that consistent with the rule in other churches? What has been the historic view?

Any thoughts or opinions on this would be greatly appreciated. The more specific the better.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jan 23, 2014)

My understanding of the "natural and civil relations" statement is that excommunication does not therefore annul marriage bonds, familial ties, etc... or, in the case of excommunicating a King, for example, mean then that you no longer have to submit to his authority in the "civil" sphere.

The second part (i.e.- witness) has to do with seeking reconciliation with said person, restoration of their soul, etc... 

As far as what kind of "disassociation" I do not think that teaches "shunning" of the kind you see in Anabaptists communities. I'm not sure to be honest what that particularly looks like, especially in the way in which our society is organized today.


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## Romans922 (Jan 23, 2014)

"as a Pharisee or tax collector" --> i.e. treat them like an unbeliever.


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## SeanPatrickCornell (Jan 23, 2014)

1 Corinthians 5:11 "... not even to eat with such a one" might apply here.


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## Free Christian (Jan 23, 2014)

louis_jp said:


> Once they are put out of the church, to what degree are remaining members allowed to speak to or interact with them?


Good question and one which I too am interested to hear about. I had an experience with that once with someone who did something very wrong in the church.
It greatly divided many.


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## Jack K (Jan 23, 2014)

This is an excellent question, because the differences in social customs from Bible times to our own make it hard to know how to apply the principle today. The basic theme of the Bible passages that deal with this seems to be that we ought to treat the person the way we would an unbeliever, one who does not have a share in the family of God. So anything that might indicate to the person under discipline, others in the church, or the watching world that he is still one of "us" is to be discontinued. This clearly means participation in the Lord's Supper, but would also seem to include most gatherings for Bible study, prayer, fellowship meals, church-run projects or works of mercy, and so on.

But what about watching a football game with the guy? In our pluralistic culture, that usually doesn't signal that I consider him a fellow believer, yet I also don't want to give the impression (to him or to anyone else) that everything between him and me is fine and as it always has been. In such situations, I think the goal of restoration needs to kept in mind. Will watching football with the guy be likely to help keep ties open and perhaps ultimately bring him to repentance, or will it undermine the purpose of excommunication by letting him still enjoy fellowship with me as if nothing has changed? Deciding that takes wisdom.

In such a case it's probably best to go to an elder familiar with the case and ask whether he thinks it would be most helpful to keep some contact with the guy or to break things off. That way, whatever you do, you're working _with_ the elders in their efforts to restore the man rather than against them.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 23, 2014)

As 2 Corinthians chapter 2 shows, you certainly can keep enough communication going to encourage repentance. I think that is the key. 

As Jack pointed out, the problem is falling into pretending nothing is wrong. The approach would depend upon particular circumstances, but simultaneously acknowledging the breach and communicating the desire for the excommunicated one to repent and be restored should guide how we treat such a one.


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## Tirian (Jan 23, 2014)

Jack K said:


> but would also seem to include most gatherings for Bible study, prayer, fellowship meals, church-run projects or works of mercy, and so on.



We have unbelievers at all of these things too thought, so I think the advise you gave a little further down is good: "it's probably best to go to an elder familiar with the case and ask whether he thinks it would be most helpful to keep some contact with the guy or to break things off" If excommunication has come about because of someone wandering from the faith and failing to submit to church discipline, but that same person at some stage comes back into the sphere of the church, I would expect we would welcome them to attend bible studies etc. Obviously the Lord's Supper still being withheld until the person has come back into fellowship.


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