# Did Pharaoh Drown.



## johnny (Dec 7, 2014)

I have seen an argument to suggest that it was only Pharaoh's armies who drowned. I am aware that this position disagrees with some of our creeds and confessions but I was just wondering your thoughts.


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## VictorBravo (Dec 7, 2014)

> Exo 14:28 And the waters returned, and covered the chariots, and the horsemen, and all the host of Pharaoh that came into the sea after them; there remained not so much as one of them.



Pharaoh was an enemy, right? "there was not one of them left":



> Psa 106:9 He rebuked the Red sea also, and it was dried up: so he led them through the depths, as through the wilderness.
> Psa 106:10 And he saved them from the hand of him that hated them, and redeemed them from the hand of the enemy.
> Psa 106:11 And the waters covered their enemies: there was not one of them left.



I don't see any reason to speculate that he survived given the fact that he got his own chariot ready and took his own army with him:



> Exo 14:6 And he made ready his chariot, and took his people with him:
> Exo 14:7 And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them.


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## nick (Dec 7, 2014)

Is there a reason behind someone wanting him to survive?


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## whirlingmerc (Dec 7, 2014)

There is a missing Pharoah which is consistent with him becoming fish food


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 7, 2014)

Isn't Egyptian chronology all messed up?


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## arapahoepark (Dec 7, 2014)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Isn't Egyptian chronology all messed up?



Yes, very much so. Hittite, Assyrian and Israeli records line up with each other but rarely ever with Egyptian ones.
See Issac Newton's Revised Kingdoms. Its fascinating.


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## johnny (Dec 8, 2014)

Thank you Victor, that is a sound argument that Pharaoh perished with his army.

Thank you Nick, ((Is there a reason behind someone wanting him to survive?))
I believe they are trying to prove their theory that the Pharaoh referred to is Thutmoses III,,
To do this they need him to have survived the encounter at the Red Sea.

Quote from website,,,

Thutmoses III did not die in the red sea: 

The Pharaoh of the Exodus did NOT die in the Red Sea. The Bible nowhere says Pharaoh drowned in the Red Sea. Further, drowning in the Red Sea was the easy way out. It was far more humiliating for Thutmoses III to have to travel back to a destroyed Egypt WITHOUT his army to face his people. Some will actually rule out Thutmoses III as a candidate for the Pharaoh of the Exodus BECAUSE he died 15 years after the Red Sea crossing in 1431 BC. This is a great example of where incorrect assumptions will lead you on a fruitless rabbit trail to error in choosing the WRONG Pharaoh of the Exodus. With all the factual errors in the classic 4 hour Hollywood movie, "THE TEN COMMANDMENTS" with Charlton Heston, the spectacular scene where Pharaoh army are drowned before his eyes and he drops his staff is exactly correct! 

· Notice the account carefully differentiates Pharaoh from HIS ARMY: "Then the Egyptians took up the pursuit, and all Pharaoh’s horses, his chariots and his horsemen went in after them into the midst of the sea. At the morning watch, the Lord looked down on the army of the Egyptians through the pillar of fire and cloud and brought the army of the Egyptians into confusion. He caused their chariot wheels to swerve, and He made them drive with difficulty; so the Egyptians said, “Let us flee from Israel, for the Lord is fighting for them against the Egyptians.” Then the Lord said to Moses, “Stretch out your hand over the sea so that the waters may come back over the Egyptians, over their chariots and their horsemen.” So Moses stretched out his hand over the sea, and the sea returned to its normal state at daybreak, while the Egyptians were fleeing right into it; then the Lord overthrew the Egyptians in the midst of the sea. The waters returned and covered the chariots and the horsemen, even Pharaoh’s entire army that had gone into the sea after them; not even one of them remained." (Exodus 14:23-28) 

· In the victory song of Moses notice it never says Pharaoh himself drowned: "Pharaoh’s chariots and his army He has cast into the sea; And the choicest of his officers are drowned in the Red Sea." (Exodus 15:4) 

· Notice God "shook off" Pharaoh but didn’t' kill him: "But He overthrew Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea" (Psalm 136:15) The Hebrew word for "overthrew" is literally "shook off" and is metaphoric of ridding the Hebrews of Pharaoh's control. It DOES NOT say that God drowned or killed Pharaoh and his army in the Red Sea.

End of quote,,,

Here is a weblink to the timeline, 
New Evidence for Thutmose III as Exodus Pharaoh in 1446 BC


Thank you Michael, (There is a missing Pharaoh which is consistent with him becoming fish food)
Yes I have heard that and if fits better theologically in my humble opinion.



Thank you Chris, (Isn't Egyptian chronology all messed up?)
Maybe I shouldn't be looking to this website in the first place for any information.
My real question was "Is there any evidence that Moses grew up with the Pharaoh of the exodus or knew of him beforehand"
In my internet search to find out this I came across the "Pharaoh didn't die" scenario and got side-tracked.

CARM are not fans of this website by the way. (I like CARM and admire their work) 
Is bible.ca a good website? | analysis of bible.ca website | carm.org | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry


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## Jonny. (Dec 8, 2014)

Plus, repeated references like these, were Pharaoh isn't differentiated from his men - just like he wasn't treated differently when it came to the 10th plague.



> I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host (Ex 14:4)





> And I will harden the hearts of the Egyptians so that they shall go in after them, and I will get glory over Pharaoh and all his host, his chariots, and his horsemen. And the Egyptians shall know that I am the LORD, when I have gotten glory over Pharaoh, his chariots, and his horsemen.
> (Ex 14:17-18)


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## johnny (Dec 8, 2014)

Thank you Jonny - And I also think of Moses prophetic statement...

28 Then Pharaoh said to him, "Get away from me! Take heed to yourself and see my face no more! For in the day you see my face you shall die!" 29 And Moses said, "You have spoken well. I will never see your face again."


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