# Middle Knowledge



## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

I looked up some info on wiki about William Lane Craig. I see he beleives in 'middle knowledge'. 

What is this?


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## Davidius (Mar 15, 2008)

Molinism - Theopedia


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

Another expression of Geislerism


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## Pilgrim (Mar 15, 2008)

It seems that this teaching is gaining some acceptance in Baptist circles. I think that one of the non-Calvinistic speakers at the Building Bridges--Southern Baptists and Calvinism advocates molinism.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

The author in question was brought up in my bible study. Now the more I find out the more my free will is opposed to this teaching of MK.


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## greenbaggins (Mar 15, 2008)

Turretin has an excellent and devastating critique of it in volume one of the Institutes. I hear from Scott Clark, however, that Voetius has the best critique of it. Unfortunately, it is only in Latin.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

Is there a link to Turretin?


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## greenbaggins (Mar 15, 2008)

If you read Latin, it is on Google books for free download here. But the English version is still copyrighted. You should definitely buy Turretin if you don't own him. He is just as important as Calvin and Mastricht.


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## greenbaggins (Mar 15, 2008)

You can buy the English here. Turretin is so good, you'll feel like you get your $75 worth in the first 100 pages.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

So do you like Turretin 

I hope he is within the pale of reformed orthodoxy! (bad joke)


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## greenbaggins (Mar 15, 2008)

Turretin is amazing. He is my current favorite systematician.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

Do you have the title specifically where he destroys middle knowledge?


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## greenbaggins (Mar 15, 2008)

It's page 192 of the Latin version. I don't have the English version handy (it's at home).


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## Iconoclast (Mar 15, 2008)

Bladestunner316 said:


> I looked up some info on wiki about William Lane Craig. I see he beleives in 'middle knowledge'.
> 
> What is this?



"Middle knowledge" seems to be lack of knowledge of the attributes of the true and living God. With a wounded adam,instead of a dead adam added into the mix. 
On the link posted by David I found this by William Lane Craig.



> But what exactly is the problem with God's condemning persons who adhere to non-Christian religions? I do not see that the very notion of hell is incompatible with a just and loving God. According to the New Testament, God does not want anyone to perish, but desires that all persons repent and be saved and come to know the truth (11 Peter 3.9; 1 Timothy 2.4). He therefore seeks to draw all men to Himself. Those who make a well-informed and free decision to reject Christ are self-condemned, since they repudiate God's unique sacrifice for sin. By spurning God's prevenient grace and the solicitation of His Spirit, they shut out God's mercy and seal their own destiny. They, therefore, and not God, are responsible for their condemnation, and God deeply mourns their loss.


This is the same lie that says God does not send anyone to hell, they send themselves. This middle knowledge god wants to save but cannot. He seeks but cannot save. The wounded sinner is sovereign and as usual he makes his choice how and when he will be saved,if at all.
It is one thing if a person has not heard the truth and prayerfully searched the scriptures for it. These teachings look to be slickly crafted to attempt to undermine the sure foundation of the Grace of God.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 15, 2008)

Iconclast,
Scary and Sad!!

Craig's version of "god" is pathetic and worthless to me. He is no more "god" than 'Q' from Star Trek.


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## Davidius (Mar 15, 2008)

That's quite an, uh, interesting new avatar you're using, Nathan...perhaps a little disturbing!


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## panta dokimazete (Mar 15, 2008)

I read the molinism link - I like the best of all possible worlds - seems the best aligned to the Rom 8:28 principle.


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## turmeric (Mar 16, 2008)

So _that's_ where Voltaire got it!


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## tdowns (Mar 16, 2008)

panta dokimazete said:


> I read the molinism link - I like the best of all possible worlds - seems the best aligned to the Rom 8:28 principle.



Now, I want to read Turretin.

As for quote above, how is the Best of all Possible worlds, different than Molinism?

My thinking, is, even if it's in God's Mind--which we can not understand, or know--if he "sees" human response, as part of the equation for Salvation, some Humans, deserve it more than others...=works salvation...Yes?


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## ChristianTrader (Mar 16, 2008)

http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/Middle_Knowledge.pdf


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## cih1355 (Mar 16, 2008)

Middle Knowledge is the idea that God knows which choices you will make in every possible circumstance so He ordains which circumstances you will be in so that He can get you to make certain choices. This idea implies that God is only sovereign over a person's circumstances, but Scripture teaches otherwise. God controls everything from the smallest of particles to the largest of galaxies. He ordains whatsoever comes to pass, not just what circumstances you will be in. God not only determines the circumstances that you will be in, He determines exactly what your heart will be like. He determines everything that you think, say, and do and He guarantees that those things will come to pass. He knows exactly what choices you will make because He determines what your choices will be. God's plan determines what you will think, say, and do. Man's choices do not determine what God's plan is going to be like.


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## Jim Johnston (Mar 16, 2008)

Hays critiques Craig's muddle knowledge

Here's the grounding objection, which is probaly the number one objection to muddle knowledge.

Here's a critique of a reformed guy's (Terry Tiessen) use of muddle knowledge. Especially helpful is the dialogue that ensued in the combox between Dr. Tiessen and Dr. Welty.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 16, 2008)

Thank you Tom!!!


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## cih1355 (Mar 16, 2008)

I would like to add that God can cause you to think, say, and do certain things regardless of the circumstances that you are in.


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