# Protestant and catholic mariology



## John Bunyan

According to Wikipedia: 

Wycliffe "It seems to me impossible that we should obtain the reward of Heaven without the help of Mary. There is no sex or age, no rank or position, of anyone in the whole human race, which has no need to call for the help of the Holy Virgin."

Luther "The virgin body was pregnant, but she remained pure; Here comes the saviour of the gentiles; Divine grace from heaven came over the virgin and others", and ""Furthermore, how will you endure [the Romanists'] terrible idolatries? It was not enough that they venerated the saints and praised God in them, but they actually made them into gods. They put that noble child, the mother Mary, right into the place of Christ. They fashioned Christ into a judge and thus devised a tyrant for anguished consciences, so that all comfort and confidence was transferred from Christ to Mary, and then everyone turned from Christ to his particular saint. Can anyone deny this? Is it not true?"".

Seeing that some reformers held differing opinions on Mary (some say that Luther as a defender of the Immaculate Conception, for example, and lutherans seem to be way in that Mary veneration business), I'd like to ask: What are the major protestant mariological views and? What is the major difference between protestant views and catholic ones (since some protestants even believe in the catholic dogma of "immaculate conception")? Why is it so unusual to find protestant seminaries with any class named "Mariology", while every single Catholic one has it? 

Other question: why do catholics call Mary by so many different names both in their preaching and praying? Why so many "Our Lady of here-and-there"? Why not just "Our Lady" or "Blessed Virgin"? Here in my country people even use two names one after the other (like "Pray that Our Lady of Aparecida might help us understand God's Word, and that Our Lady of Fatima will help us against our sins")? Is there any theological significance or is it the case that catholics simply like to use lots of synonimous words?


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## Mathetes

Here's pretty much all the info you could need on Luther's mariology:

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Martin Luther's Mariology

As for Calvin, Zwingli, and others I'm not sure. Wycliffe was pre-Reformation so I imagine that he would still have had a lot of Roman baggage on him.



John Bunyan said:


> Is there any theological significance or is it the case that catholics simply like to use lots of synonimous words?



It seems to me like it's adoration gone careening off the edge of the cliff.


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## dudley

*Roman catholic Mariology draws people away from Jesus and towards Mary.*

The lie of the role of Mary which goes above what we are given in Scripture is related to the RC false teaching of Veneration which leads to superstitious worship of images even though the Roman catholic church says veneration not adoration. The Roman catholic teaching of praying to the saints for their intersession with God leads to people out of their own finite ignorance to actually be praying to saints and also Mary instead of going directly to Jesus Christ who we know by scripture is the only mediator to the father. Thus the same terrible distortion is also directed to Mary the mother of Jesus, when Roman Catholicism teaches that she is a partner, co-redemptrix with her son. The Roman pope declared her the Immaculate Conception that she was born free from sin and then the proclamation of the Assumption; Her assumption into heaven. This of course was done under the dogma of papal infallibility, Vatican I and Vatican II (1860’s and 1960’s) that when the pope speaking ex-cathedra, from the chair of Peter declares that a belief to be true it becomes dogma when he declares that it is true (even though not scripturally supported). I of course now reject the dogma of papal infallibility as well as the papacy itself and as I have said I renounce Roman Catholicism and all its teachings which transcend and go above and beyond the Gospel. 

1 Timothy 2:5 (ESV)
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

Although for hundreds of years the Roman Catholic Church has given honor and adoration to Mary that the Scriptures do not, during the past fifty years, one of the most important trends in the Catholic Church has been an even greater emphasis upon the place of Mary. 

It is one of the many reasons I left the Roman catholic church and became a Protestant.

The following piece was given to me when I was becoming a Protestant. I was given this by a Reformed Pastor who was instructing me on the Westminster Confession of faith. I asked him the same question and his answer helped clarify the question to me. The following explains the Roman catholic heresy on Mary very well. I hope it will help you and others. 

Roman catholic Mariology draws people away from Jesus and towards Mary. It encourages people to pray rosaries, wear scapulars, and consecrate themselves to Mary. It claims that Mary can get people into Heaven.

Sometimes "Mary" appears with "baby Jesus" in her arms. However, Jesus is not a baby. He was a grown man when He was crucified, resurrected from the dead, and ascended into Heaven. Jesus was a grown man in resurrected glory when Stephen was being stoned and he saw the heavens opened and Jesus standing at the right hand of God the Father (Acts 7:55-56). When Jesus returns in glory at the Second Coming, He will not return as a baby. On Judgment Day, mankind will not be judged by a baby.

The Bible warns us that the devil can appear as an angel of light (2 Corinthians 11:14). Therefore, we should not be surprised if the devil and his demons can appear in the form of the Virgin Mary. The Bible warns us that there will be lying signs and wonders whose purpose is to deceive people and draw them away from God (Matthew 24:24; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-10).

By the titles of Co-redemptrix, Mediatrix and Advocate, the Roman Catholic Church means that salvation for everyone would be obtained through Mary, and not directly from Jesus Christ. While this is in fact already taught by the Catholic Church, and has been for many years, it is not yet formally defined as binding dogma, though some Catholics feel it has already achieved that status. Here are examples of this teaching from papal encyclicals:
The RCC says: “If in all this series of Mysteries, Venerable Brethren, are developed the counsels of God in regard to us -- "counsels of wisdom and of tenderness" (St. Bernard) -- not less apparent is the greatness of the benefits for which we are debtors to the Virgin Mother. No man can meditate upon these without feeling a new awakening in his heart of confidence that he will certainly obtain through Mary the fullness of the mercies of God. And to this end vocal prayer chimes well with the Mysteries. First, as is meet and right, comes the Lord's Prayer, addressed to Our Father in Heaven: and having, with the elect petitions dictated by Our Divine Master, called upon the Father, from the throne of His Majesty we turn our prayerful voices to Mary. Thus is confirmed that law of merciful meditation of which We have spoken, and which St. Bernardine of Siena thus expresses: "Every grace granted to man has three degrees in order; for by God it is communicated to Christ, from Christ it passes to the Virgin, and from the Virgin it descends to us."

The above piece is heretical and blasphemous. I am an ex Roman catholic and now a Presbyterian, Reformed Protestant. I now believe the Protestant view is correct and thus as a Reformed Protestant I believe Mary was a sinner who was saved by grace in the same manner of any sinner who trusts Jesus Christ for salvation. The Bible says absolutely nothing about her beyond this. She is not the Mother of God or Ever Virgin or the Queen of Heaven or Co-Redemptress with Christ. She cannot hear or answer prayer, which is a prerogative of Almighty God alone. The Apostles taught absolutely nothing about "Marian worship." Men do not need Mary to bring them to Christ. The needy sinner comes directly to the Lord Jesus Christ, the sole Mediator between God and men: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time" (1 Tim. 2:5-6). Christ promised, "COME UNTO ME, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest" (Matthew 11:28). The Bible nowhere invites men to come to Mary or to trust Mary or to pray to Mary (David Cloud, 5/7/97, FBIS).

The following random quotes from the book Ten Series of Meditations on the Mystery of the Rosary, by John Ferraro, is intended to give an overview of Roman Catholic dogma concerning the Virgin Mary. Ferraro's book was given the Nihil Obstat and the Imprimatur, which is an official statement by the Roman Catholic Church that the book "is free of doctrinal or moral error." Therefore, we can take these quotes as official Roman Catholic doctrine: it will explain to you perhaps the reason titles are given to Mary in Roman Catholicism
(a) She [Mary] is co-Redemptrix of the human race.

(b) The church and the saints greet her thus: "You, O Mary, together with Jesus Christ, redeemed us."

(c) God has ordained that no grace will be granted to us except through Mary. It is a doctrine preached by all the saints that no grace will come to us from heaven without passing through Mary's hands. No one will be saved nor obtain mercy except through You, O' heavenly lady. Remember this well, no one will enter heaven without passing through Mary as one would pass through a door. O' Mary, our salvation is in your hands.

(d) During His passion, Mary suffered in her heart all the pains that Jesus suffered in His body. For this reason, God exalted her so greatly.

(e) Mary is our co-Redemptrix because she gave us Jesus pledge of our salvation. Furthermore, she is co-Redemptrix of the human race, because with Christ she ransomed mankind from the power of Satan.

(f) Jesus redeemed us with the blood of His body, Mary with the agonies of her heart.

(g) We were condemned through the fault of one woman; we are saved through the merits of another woman. Just as Eve was the root of death for everyone, so Mary was the source of life for everyone.

(h) Mary is our co-Redemptrix because she suffered in her heart whatever was lacking in the passion of Christ. Are we obligated to Jesus for His passions? -- so we are indebted to Mary for her participation in His passions. She gave birth to Jesus with joy; she gave birth to us, brothers of Jesus, in anguish and sorrow.

(i) Mary, Queen of the Apostles: She is queen of apostles because she formed them and directed them in their preaching. Mary is Queen of Apostles because by herself she routed all the heresies. Mary is Queen of Apostles because she is mother of grace and channel of mercy. She is Queen of Apostles because in her every hope is life and virtue. She is Queen of Apostles because she is conqueror of the Infernal Dragon. (Emphasis added.)

(j) If we spread devotion to Mary, we will gain heaven -- "Who explains me will have life everlasting."

All of the above are blasphemous and counter the truth of salvation ,that all are saved by faith in Christ alone, one of the 5 sola’s of the Reformation that we as Protestants need to re affirm.

This is absolute blasphemy. Nowhere in the Scriptures is Mary exalted this way. Not one time do we find the Apostles or early Christians praying to her. None of the Apostolic epistles to the churches even mention her. Everything the roman catholic church says about Mary is based on human thinking apart from divine revelation. 

I renounced all this false and heretical teaching about Mary as well as Roman Catholicism and her pope completely when I embraced the Reformed Protestant faith and became a Presbyterian. It is dangerous and upsetting when I hear any protestant becoming soft on the Roman catholic tradition of praying to Mary. It is repugnant and an blasphemy and an abomination in my own mind now as a Protestant. 

1 Timothy 2:5 (ESV)
For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus...

She, the church of Rome is now sadly also in my mind also very possibly the "whore of Babylon" and the papacy is in my mind an antichrist institution and many of her popes while maybe not consciously antichrist were and are doing the work of the antichrist...however I read the following by Charles Spurgeon on Roman Catholicism. As an ex Roman catholic I think what he said is still very true today. Spurgeon wrote: 

"Cursed be the man before the Lord, that riseth up and buildeth this city Jericho." Joshua 6:26 
"Since he was cursed who rebuilt Jericho, much more the man who labours to restore Popery among us. In our fathers' days the gigantic walls of Popery fell by the power of their faith, the perseverance of their efforts, and the blast of their gospel trumpets; and now there are some who would rebuild that accursed system upon its old foundations. O Lord, be please to thwart their unrighteous endeavors, and pull down every stone which they build. It should be a serious business with us to be thoroughly purged of every error which may have a tendency to foster the spirit of Popery, and when we have made a clean sweep at home we should seek in every way to oppose its all too rapid spread abroad in the church and in the world. This last can be done in secret by fervent prayer, and in public by decided testimony...……Reader, what can you do? What will you do?" 

………"Reader, what can you do? What will you do?" I decided to give public testimony and decided testimony of the truth I have found in the Reformed Protestant fold. I write extensively on the Internet of my conversion to Protestantism and the Reformed faith. Go to "Google" type in conversion stories from Roman catholic to Protestant and the stories that pop up are just the opposite, Protestant to Roman catholic! However type in Dudley Davis, Reformed Presbyterian Protestant and my testimonies are all over the Internet. 

I will end with a prayer I said when renouncing roman Catholicism and all her false teachings when I was becoming a reformed protestant. 

PRAYER: Heavenly Father, I renounce every kind of devotion to the Virgin Mary. I renounce the veneration of Mary. I renounce worship of Mary. I renounce every special title which has been given to Mary. I renounce belief in apparitions of "Mary". I renounce everything which I have said or done because of instructions from these apparitions. I repent of everything which I have said or done in order to venerate the Virgin Mary or to show special devotion to her. I repent of any way in which I have consecrated myself to Mary. I repent of praying the Rosary. I repent of wearing medals, jewelry, rosary bracelets or scapulars which honor Mary. I repent of saying prayers to Mary and singing songs in her honor. I repent of asking Mary to intervene on my behalf instead of trusting God to hear my prayers because He loves me. I repent of believing that Mary could help me or my loved ones. I repent of ever saying or implying that the Virgin Mary is my queen or my mother. I declare that Mary was an ordinary woman who was given the privilege of being the mother of Jesus. She made mistakes like the rest of us. She needed a savior like the rest of us. Please forgive me for believing Catholic doctrines which exalt Mary above other people. Please forgive me for making an idol out of her. In the name of Jesus. Amen.

As a Protestant I give special respect to Mary for she was the earthly Mother Of Jesus Christ. I give however all glory and Honor to the Father in heaven only and I go only to His son Jesus Christ as my mediator to the Father I am guided by the Holy Spirit and I believe all Protestants should do the same. 

Much of what I said can also be read in my blog “Roman Catholicism v. 1 Timothy 2:5”

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## py3ak

I wouldn't call Wycliffe Protestant.
It's no surprise to find strong statements of respect and affection towards Mary from Protestants - we naturally feel a little like Elizabeth, we agree with the salutation of the angel, we sympathize with the anonymous woman in Luke 11, while recognizing that Christ gently corrected her. But of course we don't have a whole subsection of dogma devoted to Mary - anymore than we have an Abrahamology or a Davidology. We can say that without Mary we would not be saved, because Christ came of her; but you could say that of Mary's father, or of Abraham and David as well.
Heaping up titles is a natural part of adoration: titles that mean something remind us of something about the person being adored. Thus in prayer we might speak of God as eternal, almighty, holy, and merciful. But if I'm right that it's natural in adoration to do that, then heaping up putative titles of Mary gives the game away - she is being adored, and I can't imagine something that would more deeply horrify the one who called herself the handmaid of the Lord.

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## dudley

py3ak said:


> I wouldn't call Wycliffe Protestant.
> It's no surprise to find strong statements of respect and affection towards Mary from Protestants - we naturally feel a little like Elizabeth, we agree with the salutation of the angel, we sympathize with the anonymous woman in Luke 11, while recognizing that Christ gently corrected her. But of course we don't have a whole subsection of dogma devoted to Mary - anymore than we have an Abrahamology or a Davidology. We can say that without Mary we would not be saved, because Christ came of her; but you could say that of Mary's father, or of Abraham and David as well.
> Heaping up titles is a natural part of adoration: titles that mean something remind us something about the person being adored. Thus in prayer we might speak of God as eternal, almighty, holy, and merciful. But if I'm right that it's natural in adoration to do that, then heaping up putative titles of Mary gives the game away - she is being adored, and I can't imagine something that would more deeply horrify the one who called herself the handmaid of the Lord.



Amen Ruben! You answered the question so well...I never thought of what you said but it is so true and definitely in regards to catholic mariology. "Heaping up titles is a natural part of adoration: titles that mean something remind us something about the person being adored. Thus in prayer we might speak of God as eternal, almighty, holy, and merciful. But if I'm right that it's natural in adoration to do that, then heaping up putative titles of Mary gives the game away - she is being adored, and I can't imagine something that would more deeply horrify the one who called herself the handmaid of the Lord." Catholic mariology adores Mary, and adoration belongs only to the Lord God. We Protestants are right in that we respect Mary and the role she played in bringing Jesus Christ the Savior into the world. But that is as far as we should go, we give her respect; but catholic mariology creates a Mary that is not of the Gospels. So much of Roman catholicism is man made, it is not of or by God. It is why we are Protestant; we protest the heresies of the Roman church and we proclaim the truth of the true Gospel!


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## Moireach

John Bunyan said:


> According to Wikipedia:
> 
> Wycliffe "It seems to me impossible that we should obtain the reward of Heaven without the help of Mary. There is no sex or age, no rank or position, of anyone in the whole human race, which has no need to call for the help of the Holy Virgin."
> 
> Luther "The virgin body was pregnant, but she remained pure; Here comes the saviour of the gentiles; Divine grace from heaven came over the virgin and others", and ""Furthermore, how will you endure [the Romanists'] terrible idolatries? It was not enough that they venerated the saints and praised God in them, but they actually made them into gods. They put that noble child, the mother Mary, right into the place of Christ. They fashioned Christ into a judge and thus devised a tyrant for anguished consciences, so that all comfort and confidence was transferred from Christ to Mary, and then everyone turned from Christ to his particular saint. Can anyone deny this? Is it not true?"".
> 
> Seeing that some reformers held differing opinions on Mary (some say that Luther as a defender of the Immaculate Conception, for example, and lutherans seem to be way in that Mary veneration business), I'd like to ask: What are the major protestant mariological views and? What is the major difference between protestant views and catholic ones (since some protestants even believe in the catholic dogma of "immaculate conception")? Why is it so unusual to find protestant seminaries with any class named "Mariology", while every single Catholic one has it?
> 
> Other question: why do catholics call Mary by so many different names both in their preaching and praying? Why so many "Our Lady of here-and-there"? Why not just "Our Lady" or "Blessed Virgin"? Here in my country people even use two names one after the other (like "Pray that Our Lady of Aparecida might help us understand God's Word, and that Our Lady of Fatima will help us against our sins")? Is there any theological significance or is it the case that catholics simply like to use lots of synonimous words?



I'm not sure what there is discuss. As we have seen Romanists in their idolatry worship the saved rather than the Saviour. The official wording on it is,
“By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the ‘Mother of Mercy,’ the All Holy One”.
Why so many names? Because they like to blaspheme in their ignorance I'm afraid, that's about as good a reason as you find.

As for Protestants, real Protestants, Mary is a Christian just like the rest of us, an excellent example of faith in the Bible and she sang of her 'Saviour' herself. The sinless don't need saving. What else is there to say? A class on it would be a total waste of time, touch on it in an apologetics class maybe but that's all. This isn't a debatable subject, the Bible is 100% clear on it. Romanists chose to ignore the Bible because it's what they do best.


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## John Bunyan

Moireach said:


> John Bunyan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Protestants, real Protestants, Mary is a Christian just like the rest of us, an excellent example of faith in the Bible and she sang of her 'Saviour' herself. The sinless don't need saving. What else is there to say? A class on it would be a total waste of time, touch on it in an apologetics class maybe but that's all. This isn't a debatable subject, the Bible is 100% clear on it. Romanists chose to ignore the Bible because it's what they do best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if Anglicans, some Lutherans, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have differing opinions on Mary because of their traditions or any scriptural argument (I've seen a few, quite weak by the way), I believe it would be useful to understand where they got their ideas from, and how these ideas were refuted in the previous centuries, yes, in an apologetical context.
Click to expand...


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## Moireach

John Bunyan said:


> Moireach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Bunyan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Protestants, real Protestants, Mary is a Christian just like the rest of us, an excellent example of faith in the Bible and she sang of her 'Saviour' herself. The sinless don't need saving. What else is there to say? A class on it would be a total waste of time, touch on it in an apologetics class maybe but that's all. This isn't a debatable subject, the Bible is 100% clear on it. Romanists chose to ignore the Bible because it's what they do best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if Anglicans, some Lutherans, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have differing opinions on Mary because of their traditions or any scriptural argument (I've seen a few, quite weak by the way), I believe it would be useful to understand where they got their ideas from, and how these ideas were refuted in the previous centuries, yes, in an apologetical context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They get these ideas because the Bible is not their ultimate standard. That is where it all hinges. If you can persuade a Roman Catholic that the Bible is the exclusive guide then this topic works itself out.
> 
> Can you give any example of Anglicans and Lutherans who hold this view of Mary? I was of the understanding that it was exclusively Roman Catholic. Though it doesn't surprise me if it is Eastern Orthodox too.
Click to expand...


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## John Bunyan

Moireach said:


> John Bunyan said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Moireach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Bunyan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Protestants, real Protestants, Mary is a Christian just like the rest of us, an excellent example of faith in the Bible and she sang of her 'Saviour' herself. The sinless don't need saving. What else is there to say? A class on it would be a total waste of time, touch on it in an apologetics class maybe but that's all. This isn't a debatable subject, the Bible is 100% clear on it. Romanists chose to ignore the Bible because it's what they do best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if Anglicans, some Lutherans, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have differing opinions on Mary because of their traditions or any scriptural argument (I've seen a few, quite weak by the way), I believe it would be useful to understand where they got their ideas from, and how these ideas were refuted in the previous centuries, yes, in an apologetical context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They get these ideas because the Bible is not their ultimate standard. That is where it all hinges. If you can persuade a Roman Catholic that the Bible is the exclusive guide then this topic works itself out.
> 
> Can you give any example of Anglicans and Lutherans who hold this view of Mary? I was of the understanding that it was exclusively Roman Catholic. Though it doesn't surprise me if it is Eastern Orthodox too.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Lutheran Marian theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Anglican Marian theology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> Basically, we have anglo-catholics and some lutherans believing with catholics in certain areas about Mary, like the idea that she was a perpetual virgin (and no scriptural basis for this idea can be found anywhere I know). So I'd like to know where they get these ideas from. Are there many church fathers, ancient theologians and important bishops who believe in non-scriptural marian doctrines? Where did these fellows get these ideas from, then?
Click to expand...


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## dudley

John Bunyan said:


> As for Protestants, real Protestants, Mary is a Christian just like the rest of us, an excellent example of faith in the Bible and she sang of her 'Saviour' herself. The sinless don't need saving. What else is there to say? A clQUOTE=John Bunyan;941727]
> 
> 
> Moireach said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> John Bunyan said:
> 
> 
> 
> As for Protestants, real Protestants, Mary is a Christian just like the rest of us, an excellent example of faith in the Bible and she sang of her 'Saviour' herself. The sinless don't need saving. What else is there to say? A class on it would be a total waste of time, touch on it in an apologetics class maybe but that's all. This isn't a debatable subject, the Bible is 100% clear on it. Romanists chose to ignore the Bible because it's what they do best.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well, if Anglicans, some Lutherans, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox have differing opinions on Mary because of their traditions or any scriptural argument (I've seen a few, quite weak by the way), I believe it would be useful to understand where they got their ideas from, and how these ideas were refuted in the previous centuries, yes, in an apologetical context.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> They get these ideas because the Bible is not their ultimate standard. That is where it all hinges. If you can persuade a Roman Catholic that the Bible is the exclusive guide then this topic works itself out.
> 
> Can you give any example of Anglicans and Lutherans who hold this view of Mary? I was of the understanding that it was exclusively Roman Catholic. Though it doesn't surprise me if it is Eastern Orthodox too.
Click to expand...



I say Amen to what David Murray said. “They get these ideas because the Bible is not their ultimate standard. That is where it all hinges. If you can persuade a Roman Catholic that the Bible is the exclusive guide then this topic works itself out.”

The Romanists have a man made religion designed by the papacy for over 1500 years. Those man made traditions include the lie of the role of Mary which goes above what we are given in Scripture. The lie of Tradition itself over Scripture is an abomination of what Roman Catholics are brainwashed into believing. I will agree with David that if a Roman catholic starts reading the Bible they will come to the truth through reading the scriptures and with the grace of God will begin to see the errors of their ways. I did , and so did 15 million other Roman Catholics in the United States alone who have now become Protestants like me in the last 2 decades. Reading the Bible brings people to the truth. Because of reading the Bible and by Gods amazing grace I have become a true Protestant in every way in recent years. I work to give testimony to the true Faith, the Reformed faith and the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. I am proud to be a Presbyterian. I am thankful I am no longer a Roman catholic.


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## py3ak

Perpetual virginity, which many Reformed have believed as a point of traditional information, not as a matter of dogma, is a far cry from immaculate conception or anything similar. It is not mariolatry to say that, all considerations being weighed, the tradition of her perpetual virginity should probably be credited.


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## James Swan

Mathetes said:


> Here's pretty much all the info you could need on Luther's mariology:
> 
> Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: Martin Luther's Mariology



Thanks for the plug! I've studied Luther's Mariology for over 10 years. I think I've found just about every context for every obscure Luther / Mary quote.


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## Mathetes

James Swan said:


> Thanks for the plug! I've studied Luther's Mariology for over 10 years. I think I've found just about every context for every obscure Luther / Mary quote.



Thanks...you also used to have a bunch of John Calvin articles at your blog, but they don't seem to be linked front-and-center anymore. Are they still there?


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## James Swan

Mathetes said:


> James Swan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the plug! I've studied Luther's Mariology for over 10 years. I think I've found just about every context for every obscure Luther / Mary quote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks...you also used to have a bunch of John Calvin articles at your blog, but they don't seem to be linked front-and-center anymore. Are they still there?
Click to expand...


Yes. I've been meaning to sift through the blog and organize a bit more. I realized my poor organization when I google search for something and wind up back at my own blog.

I recall doing at least 2 or 3 entries on Calvin's Mariology:

Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: John Calvin on the Greatness of Mary

http://beggarsallreformation.blogspot.com/2010/04/perpetual-use-of-calvin-on-marys.html


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## dudley

James Swan said:


> Mathetes said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> James Swan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks for the plug! I've studied Luther's Mariology for over 10 years. I think I've found just about every context for every obscure Luther / Mary quote.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks...you also used to have a bunch of John Calvin articles at your blog, but they don't seem to be linked front-and-center anymore. Are they still there?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes. I've been meaning to sift through the blog and organize a bit more. I realized my poor organization when I google search for something and wind up back at my own blog.
> 
> I recall doing at least 2 or 3 entries on Calvin's Mariology:
> 
> Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: John Calvin on the Greatness of Mary
> 
> Beggars All: Reformation And Apologetics: The Perpetual Use of Calvin on Mary's Perpetual Virginity
Click to expand...



Thank you James for the post and I appreciated the article on 'John Calvin on the Greatness of Mary" I admire Calvin greatly and read extensively on his theology.


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