# The added verse of "Amazing Grace"



## Kim G (Aug 5, 2011)

I often sing Amazing Grace to my son at night when I'm rocking him to sleep, and I started really paying attention to the "last verse"--the one added later. 

"When we've been there ten thousand years / bright shining as the sun, / we've no less days to sing God's praise / than when we'd first begun."

Am I the only one that thinks the verse doesn't fit the rest of the text? The six original verses are "I" verses, and this one switches to "we." In addition, what is the phrase "bright shining as the sun" modifying? It sounds like "we" are bright and shining, or that the years are bright and shining, or possibly "there" is bright and shining? 

Has anyone else noticed this and does it bother them?


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## MarieP (Aug 5, 2011)

Kim G said:


> Am I the only one that thinks the verse doesn't fit the rest of the text? The six original verses are "I" verses, and this one switches to "we."



I don't have a problem with it- the more verses about "we" that are in hymns, the better, I think, as we need to be reminded to look away from ourselves to Christ and our brethren. Our many dangers, toils, and snares become more bearable when we consider that others have faced the same struggles as we have, and they are bound for the same heaven. Besides, if Luke can write Acts and switch from they to we as often as he does, why can't I, we? ;-)



Kim G said:


> In addition, what is the phrase "bright shining as the sun" modifying? It sounds like "we" are bright and shining, or that the years are bright and shining, or possibly "there" is bright and shining?



I think "bright shining as the sun" modifies "we"

Matthew 13:43 says, "Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father."


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## Scottish Lass (Aug 5, 2011)

I know it's for scansion purposes, but the grammar of "We've no less days to sing God's grace" rather than "fewer" catches me every time. 

Yes, I'm a nerd.


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## py3ak (Aug 5, 2011)

It is very unusual to find a hymn with an "added" stanza that isn't annoying. It seems that the secondary author usually doesn't respect the style, tone, flow, or logic of the original: just adds some words that happen to fall into the same meter, without considering that there might be a reason the original poem ended where it did.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 5, 2011)

Scottish Lass said:


> I know it's for scansion purposes, but the grammar of "We've no less days to sing God's grace" rather than "fewer" catches me every time.
> 
> Yes, I'm a nerd.



Yes, this is what I have to live with!

And please notice that I ended that sentence with a preposition!


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## Marrow Man (Aug 5, 2011)

py3ak said:


> It is very unusual to find a hymn with an "added" stanza that isn't annoying. It seems that the secondary author usually doesn't respect the style, tone, flow, or logic of the original: just adds some words that happen to fall into the same meter, without considering that there might be a reason the original poem ended where it did.



Although it's a bit different that what has been referenced, "At the Cross" bothers me the same way. The sobering words of "Alas, And Did My Savior Bleed," set to the somber tune Martyrdom, are taken and not only is the tune changed, but a chorus is added to make a "happy" ending to the hymn ("and now I am happy all the day"). I don't think that's what Watts had in mind.


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## py3ak (Aug 6, 2011)

"At the Cross" is a particularly egregious example of the hamfistedness of some of those adaptors. My feeling is that if you love the original so much you should keep your paltry choruses far away from them.


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## deleteduser99 (Aug 6, 2011)

Never thought of this, though I've always immensely enjoyed that last verse.


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## JonathanHunt (Aug 6, 2011)

We sing the original final verse and omit the one you mention:

The earth shall soon dissolve like snow / the sun forbear to shine; / but God, who called me here below, / will be forever mine


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## CharlieJ (Aug 6, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Scottish Lass said:
> 
> 
> > I know it's for scansion purposes, but the grammar of "We've no less days to sing God's grace" rather than "fewer" catches me every time.
> ...



Ending a sentence with a preposition is something up with which I will not put! ~ Winston Churchill


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## jwithnell (Aug 6, 2011)

If "fits" in the chronological sense, but it's not been a favorite addition of mine, especially since the better original verses are so often omitted. I'm so glad the revised Trinity Hymnal included the "Lord has promised good to me ..." verse. It often comes to mind during difficult times. "He will my shield and portion be, as long as life endures!"


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## MarieP (Aug 6, 2011)

Speaking of grammar in hymns, I've reached a conundrum!

I'm trying to figure out how to use "lay" and lie."

Thinking about hymns isn't so helpful because I've seen both in seemingly similar situations

I've highlighted the ones I'm thinking are incorrect:

[highlight]"There in the ground, His body lay/ Light of the world by darkness slain"[/highlight]
"We lay it before Thee, we kneel and adore Thee"
"Nor heav'n have I, nor place to lay my head/ Nor home, but Thee"
[highlight]"There were ninety and nine that safely lay/ In the shelter of the fold"[/highlight]
"Mild He lays His glory by/ Born that man no more may die"
"My faith would lay her hand/ On that dear head of Thine"
[highlight]"Low in the grave He lay/ Jesus, my Saviour"[/highlight]
[highlight]"Christ Jesus lay in death's strong bands"[/highlight]
"Lay down, thou weary one, lay down/ Thy head upon My breast"
"The Father bows His ears/ And lays His thunder by"
"O lay then Thy hand on the Man of Thy might"
"Here would I lay aside each earthly load"
"Those spoils at His victorious feet/ You shall rejoice to lay/And lay yourselves, as trophies meet/ In His great judgment day"
"By grace! None dare lay claim to merit"
"It lays in heav'n the topmost stone/ And well deserves the praise"
"I lay my sins on Jesus...I lay my wants on Jesus...I lay my griefs on Jesus"
"Bold shall I stand in Thy great day/ For who aught to my charge shall lay?"
"And, crowned with vict'ry, at Thy feet/ I'll lay my honors down"
"Lay hold on life, and it shall be/ Thy joy and crown eternally"
"Take up thy cross, and follow on/ Nor think till death to lay it down"
"I lay in dust life's glory dead"
[highlight]"It were a well-spent journey/ Though seven deaths lay between"[/highlight]
[highlight]"Love and watch the lowly maiden/ In whose gentle arms He lay"[/highlight]
[highlight]"There He lay, the undefiled/ To the world a stranger"[/highlight]
[highlight]"The stars in the night sky looked down where He lay"[/highlight]
"But we never can prove the delights of His love/ Until all on the altar we lay"

"Brightness of the Father's glory/ Shall Thy praise unuttered lie?"
"Alike pervaded by His eye/ All parts of His dominion lie"
"O bless the Lord, my soul/ Nor let His mercies lie/ Forgotten in unthankfulness/ And without praises die"
"The Lord's my Shepherd, I'll not want/ He makes me down to lie"
"When through fiery trials thy pathway shall lie"
"O little town of Bethlehem/ How still we see thee lie"
"All our knowledge, sense, and sight/ Lie in deepest darkness shrouded"
"Give us to lie with humble hope/ At our Redeemer's feet"
"God is in His temple/ All within keep silence/ Prostrate lie with deepest rev'rence"
"When in the night I sleepless lie/ My soul with heav'nly thoughts supply"
"Let us think how heav'n and home/ Lie beyond that 'Till He come.'"
"My soul lies humbled in the dust/ And owns Thy dreadful sentence just"
"Concealed as yet this honor lies/ By this dark world unknown"
"Ambushed lies the evil one/ Watch and pray"
"Life with its way before us lies/ Christ is the Path and Christ the Prize"
"And say, when the death-dew lies cold on my brow/ If ever I loved thee, my Jesus, 'tis now"
"From His shining throne on high/ Comes to watch me where I lie"

Interestingly enough, it looks (to me at least) that "lie" is used correctly in all these...

Note: I think all of these are great hymns!! Love is thicker than grammar... ;-)


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## CharlieJ (Aug 6, 2011)

These are correct. The past tense of "to lie" (in the sense of being in a resting state) is "lay." These are past tense verbs. 

"Lay" is also the present tense of the transitive verb "to lay." The past of "to lay" is "laid." 

You use "to lie" if the verb is intransitive, indicating the position of the subject. You use "to lay" if the verb is transitive, terminating its action upon the object.


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## MarieP (Aug 6, 2011)

But why is "lie" used in the other lines? Is it because they are all present tense?


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## Scottish Lass (Aug 6, 2011)

MarieP said:


> But why is "lie" used in the other lines? Is it because they are all present tense?


Yes


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## LawrenceU (Aug 6, 2011)

Scottish Lass said:


> I know it's for scansion purposes, but the grammar of "We've no less days to sing God's grace" rather than "fewer" catches me every time.
> 
> Yes, I'm a nerd.



Me, too.

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py3ak said:


> "At the Cross" is a particularly egregious example of the hamfistedness of some of those adaptors. My feeling is that if you love the original so much you should keep your paltry choruses far away from them.



Amen! That is why we sing the original, _Alas, and did My Saviour Bleed_ with Martyrdom. I can't stand the other version.


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## JM (Aug 7, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Although it's a bit different that what has been referenced, "At the Cross" bothers me the same way. The sobering words of "Alas, And Did My Savior Bleed," set to the somber tune Martyrdom, are taken and not only is the tune changed, but a chorus is added to make a "happy" ending to the hymn ("and now I am happy all the day"). I don't think that's what Watts had in mind.



...I didn't know that. That's probably why the song never sat right with me.


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