# IBLP and Bill Gothard



## JBaldwin (Apr 8, 2008)

Has anyone in here ever heard of Bill Gothard and IBLP (Institute in Basic Life Principles aka Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts)? If so, I would like to know what your opinion is of his teachings.


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## Herald (Apr 8, 2008)

My only exposure to Bill Gothard was his trichotomist view that man is body, soul and spirit. I am a dichotomist. I believe there is the material and immaterial part of man. Other than that someone else will have wax eloquent on Bill Gothard.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 8, 2008)

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/what-s-wrong-statement-faith-18414/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/bill-gothard-his-ministry-18417/


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## Timothy William (Apr 8, 2008)

I voted No (apparently I am the only vote so far).


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## Coram Deo (Apr 8, 2008)

I have heard many strange and unorthodox things about Gothard and his ministry through my wife who had gone to many Gothard seminars in her past and she had friends staunchly linked to and embedded in Gothard teaching.. I have also heard things from others....

Recommend staying far far far away from this group and the Lindvallian Group...


If you want a great biblical balance of patriarchy, children, authority, fathers, husbandry, giving daughters in marriage I recommend Reformed Baptist Pastor Mark Chanski, His Book called Manly Dominion and his seminars link to the book..

I think he has a new one out called Womanly Dominion which is all about wifery, homemaking, submission... I have not read this one yet, so I can not attest to the Womanly Dominion one..


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## JBaldwin (Apr 8, 2008)

Just for the record, I don't go along with Gothard or his teachings, but I am curious as to others think.


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## LadyFlynt (Apr 8, 2008)

I have been personally affected by Gothard, his teachings, and his followers. Some were my closest friends.

In a nutshell...avoid him like the plague.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 8, 2008)

Eisegetical legalism.


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## Stephen (Apr 8, 2008)

I have not heard that man or his cult mentioned for years. I used to attend his Basic Life Principles Conferences as a young Arminian and also attended his Pastor's conferences. I would strongly warn anyone to avoid his conferences and teachings like a plague. He leans more Pelagian in his theology and teaches a works system of salvation. Much of his material comes from Charles Finney's Revival Lectures. He has a somewhat cultlike following with his teaching on authority, even though he himself is not under authority. A number of years ago he had an entire series on how circumcision was still required for salvation. In recent years he has come under much scrutiny and there have been allegations of sexual immorality. I used to pastor a congregation that was heavily into Gothard's teaching and I can attest to the fact that some of these people were divisive and ignorant about spiritual truth. In my conversations with other ministers who had "Gothardites" in their congregations they saw an increase in marital problems and heavy counseling loads. I have done much research on him and have a file full of information if you need anything additional.


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## Stephen (Apr 8, 2008)

Coram Deo said:


> I have heard many strange and unorthodox things about Gothard and his ministry through my wife who had gone to many Gothard seminars in her past and she had friends staunchly linked to and embedded in Gothard teaching.. I have also heard things from others....
> 
> Recommend staying far far far away from this group and the Lindvallian Group...
> 
> ...




Michael, what is the Lindvallian Group? I am not familiar with it? Does it have any connection to Gothard?


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## Grymir (Apr 8, 2008)

Yikes!!!! 

Shortly after my conversion a big red book fell into my hands -Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts- I read it and it help mature me. (I was 33 at the time, and was never taught some of this stuff by my liberal-new age family). But I must say, it didn't have much to do about theology, as I recall. That was firmly set earlier, so I could have been defining the term the right way, when he defines them another way. I'm gonna pull that book out of the bottom of my closet and look at it again! Yikes, I had No idea. Thanks.


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## Coram Deo (Apr 8, 2008)

Jonathan Lindvall, owner and operator of Boldchristianliving

If you think Gothard is bad, Lindvall is worst.... Even adult married children are to obey and submit to their fathers and many many more things well and above Gothard...






Stephen said:


> Coram Deo said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard many strange and unorthodox things about Gothard and his ministry through my wife who had gone to many Gothard seminars in her past and she had friends staunchly linked to and embedded in Gothard teaching.. I have also heard things from others....
> ...


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## Wannabee (Apr 8, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Eisegetical legalism.



Well said. It's too bad too, because his focus on strong families is good. And they have much to teach on many valuable life principles. It's just mixed with so much legalism that it's like some fish; one can't enjoy a bite of meat without having to watch for bones the whole time. And, if you miss a bone it'll choke you. 

A church we once belonged to had experienced his group to the point that all families who attended and "looked" like Gothardites were questioned (graciously). There is a very real sense in which they would claim that any other way to do things is wrong, period.

I prefer Vision Forum's resources; although they do have a couple of items associated with Gothard's group.


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## Christusregnat (Apr 8, 2008)

JBaldwin said:


> Has anyone in here ever heard of Bill Gothard and IBLP (Institute in Basic Life Principles aka Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts)? If so, I would like to know what your opinion is of his teachings.



Miss (Mrs.?) Baldwin,

For all of the misguided and mistaken (nay, even legalistic) teaching you have to wade through to get to the good stuff, you could have been reading Puritans or the Bible.

His teachings lead many people astray by 1. oversimplifying the bible, 2. inaccurate proof-texting, 3. moralizing the gospel, and other related errors.

Cheers,


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## Mushroom (Apr 8, 2008)

I ran into some Gothardites back in the mid 90's. They all attended a reformed Presbyterian Church, but their conversation and teaching often reflected a synergistic soteriology, which I thought strange since one was a ruling Elder and another a Deacon. They had some very legalistic practices, and a lot of wacky ideas. One was that adopting children was perhaps unwise because the kids might bear the sins of their fathers. The Elder's wife was telling me that, so I told her I was adopted..... long pause..... "into the family of God", to which she had no reply.

All of them left that Church, and the few that I have heard of since have gone in some unorthodox directions.

Last I heard, Gothard was still a lifelong bachelor who doles out marital and child-rearing advice ad nauseum, and had formed a trained force of young men while stockpiling arms. Never heard what ever became of the latter allegations.


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## matthew11v25 (Apr 8, 2008)

I would stay away!!! The negatives make up a long list.

I find it odd that he so many strong stances (legalistic in my mind) on marriage, family, etc, but has never been married and never had children!


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## JBaldwin (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks Everyone for the comments!


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## HaigLaw (Apr 8, 2008)

*nutshell*



joshua said:


> From my understanding, much of what he teaches goes beyond what Scripture mandates, wherein he takes (obviously) _personal_ convictions and makes such binding on all Chrisians without exception.



Having attended his (old) Institute in Basic Youth Conflicts years ago before I became Reformed, I would say your comment really captures the essence of the problems. 

I would concur with someone else's comment that authority is a big issue with him, but he has no visible authority over him.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 8, 2008)

HaigLaw said:


> I would concur with someone else's comment that authority is a big issue with him, but he has no visible authority over him.



My RPCNA Pastor Roy Blackwood was on the board for Gothard. Gothard was subject to the board and the Pastors. I imagine he has a Pastor over him also. I like his teaching about authority for the most part. I agree he has had some legalistic views. But I do know quite a few people who have benefited from his basic seminar. He teaches God's sovereignty and especially when it comes to authority. Roy and Bill were very close when was a member in Roy's Church. I have seen good fruit from this ministry as well as some bad fruit with older singles. They tend to want to stay under their parents authority to long.


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## Kevin (Apr 8, 2008)

Gotherdism is to Evangelical Christianity what Branch Davidianism was to Adventism, only without the compounds & tanks!

Stay far away.


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## bookslover (Apr 8, 2008)

My wife attended some Gothard seminars in the late 1970s and early 1980s, just before and just after we were married. I looked over some of the material she took away from those seminars (noting the big bucks they raked in) and was skeptical of some of the stuff he taught. I recall remarking at the time, "For a guy who's never been married, he sure has a lot to say about a husband's authority," etc.

Fortunately, that was the last time she attended one of his seminars.


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## R. Scott Clark (Apr 9, 2008)

Why would Reformed people be interested in Gothard? Have we no one teach us about sanctity and Christ-centered living? Is the Reformed tradition so bereft of resources that we need to turn to Bill Gothard for help? 

For the record I attended one of Bill's seminars c. 1976 in Omaha for a week. I think I'm still recovering.


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## Christusregnat (Apr 9, 2008)

R. Scott Clark said:


> Why would Reformed people be interested in Gothard? Have we no one teach us about sanctity and Christ-centered living? Is the Reformed tradition so bereft of resources that we need to turn to Bill Gothard for help?
> 
> For the record I attended one of Bill's seminars c. 1976 in Omaha for a week. I think I'm still recovering.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 9, 2008)

This is kind of what Pastor Lutz from Edgewood Baptist Church told me one day. 

Why does a Reformed Church need Gothard?

I am not so sure the Reformed Church needs this as much as a Society that abhors authority. I learned a lot of respect for Elders and Authority because I attended a seminar in Va. Beach, when I was in the Navy. And it was good for me. Just from my association on this board I think that there are some on here who could benefit from some of the Authority stuff. 

Grant it I am not convinced that Gothard does many things good. In fact I have been an open critique of Gothard and some of his teaching concerning authority also. 

Reformed people shouldn't need a seminar in authority. But every young Christian needs some good teaching about it. Especially in America. 



R. Scott Clark said:


> Why would Reformed people be interested in Gothard? Have we no one teach us about sanctity and Christ-centered living? Is the Reformed tradition so bereft of resources that we need to turn to Bill Gothard for help?
> 
> For the record I attended one of Bill's seminars c. 1976 in Omaha for a week. I think I'm still recovering.


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## JBaldwin (Apr 9, 2008)

R. Scott Clark said:


> Why would Reformed people be interested in Gothard? Have we no one teach us about sanctity and Christ-centered living? Is the Reformed tradition so bereft of resources that we need to turn to Bill Gothard for help?
> 
> For the record I attended one of Bill's seminars c. 1976 in Omaha for a week. I think I'm still recovering.


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## Stephen (Apr 9, 2008)

Kevin said:


> Gotherdism is to Evangelical Christianity what Branch Davidianism was to Adventism, only without the compounds & tanks!
> 
> Stay far away.





 Well said brother.


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## dalecosby (Apr 9, 2008)

my family was in the Gothard home school program in the early 80s. Actually, we were one of the pilot families.
We were not involved for very long though.

When I was 19, I was asked to volunteer for a Gothard related program to public schools call "Character First!" (no gospel, just good works)
I lasted about 3 months.

I then got married a couple of years ago and my wifes pastor was a big gothard fan.
He had us go through some Gothard material in premarital counseling.

The guy is an idiot when it comes to marriage. He has never been married and it shows.
If you do things his way you will have a 90% celibate marriage.


If you read his teaching he really twists scripture.

I don't have the time to post everything but lets just say that if the Pharisee's lived today, Bill Gothard would be their president


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## holyfool33 (Apr 10, 2008)

Gothardism is bad my pastor has had to fight it in the past and most of the people in our church either come out of a Gotherdite background or have family that are in Gotherdism.


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## Neogillist (May 28, 2008)

Stephen said:


> I have not heard that man or his cult mentioned for years. I used to attend his Basic Life Principles Conferences as a young Arminian and also attended his Pastor's conferences. I would strongly warn anyone to avoid his conferences and teachings like a plague. He leans more Pelagian in his theology and teaches a works system of salvation. Much of his material comes from Charles Finney's Revival Lectures. He has a somewhat cultlike following with his teaching on authority, even though he himself is not under authority. A number of years ago he had an entire series on how circumcision was still required for salvation. In recent years he has come under much scrutiny and there have been allegations of sexual immorality. I used to pastor a congregation that was heavily into Gothard's teaching and I can attest to the fact that some of these people were divisive and ignorant about spiritual truth. In my conversations with other ministers who had "Gothardites" in their congregations they saw an increase in marital problems and heavy counseling loads. I have done much research on him and have a file full of information if you need anything additional.



I agree. Gothard would best qualify as a Finneyist or hard-core Semi-Pelagian. My family followed his home-schooling curriculum for about two years, and then my parents evantually gave up, realizing that he had too much of a political agenda. Today, now that I have become a puritanical Calvinist, I can look back and say that I only agree with some of his teachings, while strongly disagreeing with others. This is always the danger in following a single man that has started a new movement.

dalecosby also made a good point. Gothard believes that the ceremonial law on sexual uncleaness is still binding today, such that couples should not have sex from day 1 to day 14 of the mentrual cycle, and days 1-40 following a delivery. Although he now has a Ph.D., Gothard seems to be largely ignorant of historic Christian teachings. He pulls "prooftexts" out of nowhere, and does not even exegete most passages that he uses to support his arguments.


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