# PCA and NAE



## py3ak (Sep 1, 2008)

Why is the PCA a part of the NAE? What are the advantages of belonging to that association? What is the logic behind continuing to be a part? Is there any evidence that the PCA has been a good influence on the NAE?


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## Solus Christus (Sep 1, 2008)

Please excuse my ignorance but what does "NAE" stand for?


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## DMcFadden (Sep 1, 2008)

National Association of Evangelicals, infamous lately for the Ted Hagard debacle when he was head of the organization.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 1, 2008)

Ruben,

I believe that there are times when people need to get into their own groups (e.g., denominations) and times when they need to affiliate more broadly for kingdom solidarity with other believers with whom we may have significant theological differences. The NAE has been a oppositional organization to the National Council of Churches. That in and of itself is worthwhile as it gives a common front and megaphone for conservative Christianity in a world that only "hears" the voice of the liberal left.

The Hagard sex scandal reminds us that ANY leader can mess up and make a fool of himself and the Gospel. However, under the leadership of Leith Anderson, few would disagree with the credibility and uprightness of the present administration at the NAE. 

My group of 150-200 churches joined the NAE when we withdrew from the mainline ABCUSA. We wanted to show that we were not just a group of fussy fundys committed to endless splits and divisveness. Affiliating with the NAE allows us to stand together on the authority of the Bible, the necessity of the cross of Christ, and the mandate to evangelize without compromising our individual identity and distinctiveness. At that table, I am more than happy to break bread with my charismatic, pentecostal, arminian, and dispensational brethren.

NAE membership proclaims that our separation from the NCC and the liberal mainline folks is based on their denial of the Gospel, not on our inability to get along within the body of Christ. And, in a world of micro-Presbyterianism and schismatic Baptists, that ain't such a bad badge to be wearing!

Reactions: Like 1


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## Scott1 (Sep 1, 2008)

I see the history of the NAE, as originally taking a stand against the liberalism of several mainline Protestant denominations. Although never distinctly reformed, this was intended to be a broadly evangelical group, based on the authority of Scripture, that would contend for the Gospel and a few clear biblical moral issues in the public square.

I also see that in 2000, this organization began to allow member churches to have dual membership in the National Council of Churches, one of the liberal groups it separated from over the authority of Scripture years before.

A few years ago, the PCA tried to get the NAE to change the policy, but that apparently has not happened. In addition, I see the NAE is focusing more and more on left wing politics, ignoring the biblical moral issues, and even watering Christianity down in the face of other religions. 

The advantage in having low level relations with an organization of this kind I would think would be to help "bring the bottom up," in a more biblical reformed way. Part of engaging and transforming, which tends to be "reformed."

However, if this grouping is trending toward falling away and there is no plan or prospect to reform it for God's Honor and Glory, it would be disadvantageous to remain joined to it, even at a low level.

This is disturbing indeed.


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## py3ak (Sep 1, 2008)

Dennis, do you see the NAE as having in any significant way departed from the self-destructive course that Ockenga set out at its inception?


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## py3ak (Sep 3, 2008)

Bump. Any PCA leaders want to weigh in on this question?


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 3, 2008)

Solus Christus said:


> Please excuse my ignorance but what does "NAE" stand for?



That was my question as well, but I believe that the RPCNA is also a part of it.


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## py3ak (Sep 3, 2008)

The same questions would apply to any Reformed group that participates in the NAE. Why? And, has that Reformed group demonstrably been a good influence?


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## ADKing (Sep 3, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> However, under the leadership of Leith Anderson, few would disagree with the credibility and uprightness of the present administration at the NAE.



Indeed??? Leith Anderson affixed his signature to this most  distressing "Christian" response to Muslims (notice also the signature of the likes of Rick Warren). It is apparent that the current leadership of the NAE is unclear about the fundamentals of the Christian faith and is just another example of the liberal ecumenical groups wearing an "evangelical" disguise. Christian believers beware! 

http://www.yale.edu/divinity/news/071118_news_nytimes.pdf

Anderson's excuse is less than credible. 
National Association of Evangelicals

The NAE is not an organization Bible believing Christians should be mixed up with.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 3, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> Solus Christus said:
> 
> 
> > Please excuse my ignorance but what does "NAE" stand for?
> ...



Ouch. This is true. 

National Association of Evangelicals


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 3, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> nleshelman said:
> 
> 
> > Solus Christus said:
> ...



Yep.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 3, 2008)

ADKing said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > However, under the leadership of Leith Anderson, few would disagree with the credibility and uprightness of the present administration at the NAE.
> ...



I cannt disagree with you on the dumbness of signing the document. The list of signatories was really weird. At least one of them was a former classmate of mine and a genuinely good man. But, Tony Jones and Brian McLaren? 

Here are some of the interesting names and affiliations . . .

Robert Cooley, President Emeritus of Gordon-Conwell
Timothy George, Dean at Beeson Divinity School
Bill Hybels, Willowcreek
Tony Jones, Emergent Village
Tim Lewis, President of William Carey Int’l University
Duane Litfin, President of Wheaton
Rick Love, International Director, Frontiers
Brian McLaren, Activist
Richard Mouw, President of Fuller
Glen Stassen, Fuller
George Verwer, OM founder
Jim Wallis, Sojourners
Rick Warren, Saddleback

I was horrified by the letter and agree with Piper's agonized and exasperated response. But, do I believe that Anderson sincerely believes what he wrote? Yep. Having heard him in a pastor's group, this letter sounds just like his voice and his way of thinking. Do I agree with him? No way!!!

A few weeks ago, I sat with one of the biggest names in missiology in the 20th century. To my shock, he defended this letter and expressed disgust that donors tried to pressure people to remove their names.


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## py3ak (Sep 3, 2008)

So if the leadership of the NAE doesn't understanding the distinctiveness of the Gospel in any sort of clarity, that kind of adds some weight to the question, doesn't it? Why is the PCA a part of the NAE?


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## JoelYrick (Sep 4, 2008)

The last time I was thinking about my denomination's affiliation with the NAE was when the NAE was falling all over Pope Benedict recently. I really don't care to have my church be associated with all these groups. If we want some sort of unity, I think it should be on the basis of the WCF.


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## Romans922 (Sep 4, 2008)

Mission Statement




The mission of the National Association of Evangelicals is to extend the kingdom of God through a fellowship of member denominations, churches, organizations, and individuals, demonstrating the unity of the body of Christ by standing for biblical truth, speaking with a representative voice, and serving the evangelical community through united action, cooperative ministry, and strategic planning. 



Statement of Faith



• We believe the Bible to be the inspired, the only infallible, authoritative Word of God.
• We believe that there is one God, eternally existent in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
• We believe in the deity of our Lord Jesus Christ, in His virgin birth, in His sinless life, in His miracles, in His vicarious and atoning death through His shed blood, in His bodily resurrection, in His ascension to the right hand of the Father, and in His personal return in power and glory.
• We believe that for the salvation of lost and sinful people, regeneration by the Holy Spirit is absolutely essential.
• We believe in the present ministry of the Holy Spirit by whose indwelling the Christian is enabled to live a godly life.
• We believe in the resurrection of both the saved and the lost; they that are saved unto the resurrection of life and they that are lost unto the resurrection of damnation.
• We believe in the spiritual unity of believers in our Lord Jesus Christ.


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## Ivan (Sep 4, 2008)

I'm happy to see that the Southern Baptist Convention is not listed in any way.


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## tcalbrecht (Sep 4, 2008)

py3ak said:


> The same questions would apply to any Reformed group that participates in the NAE. Why? And, has that Reformed group demonstrably been a good influence?



Without some sort of George Bailey-esque insight, it's hard to say. The PCA could be living in Potterville rather than Bedford Falls.


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## py3ak (Sep 4, 2008)

But we have a sizable representation of PCA people on here. I thought they might have heard some discussion about it. I am sincerely confused as to why the PCA would be a part of this group.


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## py3ak (Sep 7, 2008)

Any new takers on why the PCA is a member of the NAE?


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 7, 2008)

tcalbrecht said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> > The same questions would apply to any Reformed group that participates in the NAE. Why? And, has that Reformed group demonstrably been a good influence?
> ...


Or living in Disneyland? (Weeeee).
http://www.puritanboard.com/f117/pca-ga-disney-37267/


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 7, 2008)

py3ak said:


> Any new takers on why the PCA is a member of the NAE?


No idea. I have a vague recollection the late George Calhoun of Mount Olive Tape Library fame was quite vocal about how bad a thing it was.


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## Christusregnat (Sep 8, 2008)

py3ak said:


> Any new takers on why the PCA is a member of the NAE?



Well.... in the spirit of numerology and the such like, I have a guess:

1. PCA has three letters; so does NAE
2. Each abbreviation ends with a vowel
3. Each abbreviation starts with a consonant
4. Each abbreviation has the letter "A" in it
5. P=16, C=3, A=1; N=14, A=1, E=5; Notice, the divine intention for the Union is sealed in the sacred number 20. 10 is fulness, and 2 is companionship; therefore, this companionship is fully satisfying. Hence, my dear brothers, let not man... well, you get the idea.

Mystically yours,


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 8, 2008)




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## Scott1 (Sep 8, 2008)

Our PCA Stated Clerk was, at one time, chairman of the board of NAE.

National Association of Evangelicals

I see that at one time, the PCA tried to use its influence to rescind the practice of allowing joint membership in the NAE and National Council of Churches (NCC).



> Roy Taylor, General Assembly clerk of the Presbyterian Church in America, which organized in 1973 as an alternative to what became the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), said, "The uniqueness of the NAE in its founding was to be an evangelical association in contrast to the more theologically diverse and pluralistic NCC mainline denominations." The PCA assembly last summer directed its interchurch relations committee to request that the NAE reverse its action.


http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1058/is_11_118/ai_73443608


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## py3ak (Sep 8, 2008)

It seems to defeat the purpose of the NAE if someone can be in it and in the NCC. I'm glad to hear there's been opposition to it. But how come it seems to be an established fact that no one is interested in changing? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?


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## Mushroom (Sep 8, 2008)

py3ak said:


> It seems to defeat the purpose of the NAE if someone can be in it and in the NCC. I'm glad to hear there's been opposition to it. But how come it seems to be an established fact that no one is interested in changing? Am I making a big deal out of nothing?


No, you're not, Ruben. Just another example of the serious problems facing my beloved denomination.


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## py3ak (Sep 8, 2008)

We had crusaders do stuff about the FV (and I understand that much of the real work is yet to be done, but at least there is a firm foundation on which to do it). Is this that much better?


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