# A facebook post I made



## God'sElectSaint

I made a facebook post today in response to a picture I seen. The picture said something about straight pride. And I then elaborated with a comment here it is : "God's definition of marriage is settled in the words of scripture: Gen 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh. 
I don't hate homosexuals or wish to attack them but simply to tell them what God's word says. Homosexuality is sexual sin just like any other form of it(adultery,fornication) even between man and woman. It's funny how people love to ask Christians what they think about homosexuality and then when we give an honest biblical answer we end up being attacked for believing the Bible. Homosexuality is a forgivable sin that is washed by the precious blood of Jesus Christ just like all of my wicked sins were. I say to my homosexual men and women out there don't attack me because I believe in the Bible just like you don't like being attacked. My message is simple to gay men and women Repent of yours sins and believe in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved just like anyone else. "True" Christians are not on a war path against the homosexual community and to broad brush us into the category with those radical that do so is unfair."
And boy did I get some harsh feedback. Was I possibly out of line? I was simply trying to clarify and possibly spread some hope. I feel like I defended myself well and simply expressed a common Christian belief.


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## VictorBravo

Edward, people get harsh feedback on Facebook for expressing an opinion of a football player or favorite music. The forum is not always conducive to calm discussion.

All that is meant to say is that if you express God's truth on Facebook or other similar places, expect harshness and hatred.

A good question to ask yourself is whether such interactions are productive and God honoring. There are times and places to stand loud and firm, and times to be quiet. And I can't tell when those are in your circumstances. Pray for wisdom on that.


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## VictorBravo

Also, moved to Coffee Shop from NT Epistles.

[Edit: rethought this and moved to "Defending the Faith".]


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## Contra_Mundum

"Straight Pride" sounds reactionary, sounds like one-upsmanship, sounds like an opinion crafted to mirror the sinful _pride_ exhibited by rebels, a _sentiment_ of self-satisfaction for having and cultivating the natural (non-rebellious) desire which is God-given. As a gift, there is no reason or room for pride in it.

In the phrase, there is no judgment concerning inordinate desire _for the opposite sex._ Taken as a true parallel to the hmsx self-glorying phrase, it becomes just as hideous in its boasting. Where is the praise of chastity? Where is the honor of marriage? Where is the humility of reception of God's gift of sex-in-and-of-marriage?

I don't mean to say that your own comment or response intended anything other than a praise of God's declaration of marriage as explained in Scripture. But were you verbally assaulted also by critics on the "traditional" side? Your statement: was it taken as critically balanced against excesses of heteros as well as hmsxs? Or was it interpreted by other readers almost wholly as an endorsement of the stance nicely expressed by those words, "Straight Pride?"

Slogans are almost never adequate to the task put upon them. In this case, it is a slogan that non-hmsx people have tried to "rip off" from the hmsxs. Even in the expression, there is a vaunting of self. I would not have chosen this meme as one I wished to attach a defense of true and natural marriage unto. The enemies of truth will attack you anyway, so pick your ground wisely. Don't contribute to their violence by supplying them with more rocks to hurl than they would otherwise have.

The answer to hmsx pride and agenda is not elevation of contrary sexual expression. It is the death of self, and the only glory of Christ in his pure holy gospel.

Keep fighting the good fight, brother. But do most of it on your knees.


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## Miss Marple

I think it's good to stand up for what you believe. Your tone did not seem harsh or anything. Other people post all kinds of stuff. Perhaps they need to realize that perversity is not a universal delight.


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## MW

Contra_Mundum said:


> The answer to hmsx pride and agenda is not elevation of contrary sexual expression. It is the death of self, and the only glory of Christ in his pure holy gospel.



I think this goes too far. I am not to die to the fact I am a rational and moral being. If I do, I lose all ability to glory in Christ. I am not to die to my sense of individual identity. If I do there is no "I" that glories. There is a basic personality and morality which is elevated by nature above unnatural perversions. Being male or female is basic to earthly identity and morality.


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## Contra_Mundum

MW said:


> Contra_Mundum said:
> 
> 
> 
> The answer to hmsx pride and agenda is not elevation of contrary sexual expression. It is the death of self, and the only glory of Christ in his pure holy gospel.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think this goes too far. I am not to die to the fact I am a rational and moral being. If I do, I lose all ability to glory in Christ. I am not to die to my sense of individual identity. If I do there is no "I" that glories. There is a basic personality and morality which is elevated by nature above unnatural perversions. Being male or female is basic to earthly identity and morality.
Click to expand...


I appreciate your input, Matthew. My intent is not to say there is no proper reason or aim for declaring and affirming the biblical definition of marriage. I especially want to affirm how basic is the givenness (reflected by the assignment of our chromosomes) of male or female to our personal identities.

My comment has chiefly in mind all that death spoken of in Rom.6. So v4, "We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life;" v8, "...if we have died with Christ...;" and vv11-12, "So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions."

Without this radical fix, I think the world hears Christians claiming the answer to hmsxy, divorce, and everything in between is adoption (enforcement!) of Duggar-style patriarchy. "All the way the opposite way."

I believe in the reasonableness and strength of a natural revelation/law position, although establishing it is surpassing difficult after its social basis has been effectively undermined--an accurate description, I believe, of the current status of western culture. If I simply assert the superiority of the natural paradigm--as correct as that is--I expect it is seen by the lost soul as a power play. Especially if I have openly claimed "pride" for it.

I'd be surprised if we disagreed much. Blessings,


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## God'sElectSaint

Thanks guys. I felt I was gentle as possible. But you make a good point Rev.Buchanan about the Straight Pride post itself. I was attacked by homosexuals and many non believers. The Christian faith was undermined and attacked as a whole, which I attempted to defend with the actual historical evidence. I admittedly knew the comments could be harsh but I was attempting to clarify the Christians stance on this sin because I think it gets misconstrued but not many people saw that. I think they read homosexual+sin and kinda just ran with that. Their main offense is that I would dare call homosexuality a sin.


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## Miss Marple

What got John the Baptist killed? "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." People hate having their sexual behavior criticized.


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## God'sElectSaint

Miss Marple said:


> What got John the Baptist killed? "It is not lawful for you to have your brother's wife." People hate having their sexual behavior criticized.



Excellent point M.Rothenbuhler! You know it ended up going so far as someone trying to spread that weak myth about how the Council of Nicaea decided the cannon of scripture.And they left out Jesus marrying Mary Magdalene(I have no idea why that was throw in) I haven't been a Christian long but I know that myth can be easily dismantled by any honest look at history. From my understanding nicaea had nothing to do with what's in the bible but rather addressed the trinity and the second one was worship. I believe Muratorian's canon was established in 200ad, 125 years before the first nicaea and then Origen(250?) and Eusebious(300?) and these canon lacked a few books(hebrews,john 3,james,2peter,doubts of rev)Each one lacking variations of those If am correct. Wasn't the NT fixed at the Council of Carthage 400ad? Pretty sure that's right but anyway I presented many of these facts and others because I admittedly was offended by the assertion of this unhistorical myth as "fact". I got a little fired up I admit but I am not going to let falsehoods like that be put out there without casting them down(2 cor 10:5 in mind) with the truth.


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## JimmyH

What come to my mind is ;

Matthew 7:6

Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.

1John 4:5-6

5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.


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## God'sElectSaint

JimmyH said:


> What come to my mind is ;
> 
> Matthew 7:6
> 
> Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you.
> 
> 1John 4:5-6
> 
> 5 They are of the world: therefore speak they of the world, and the world heareth them. 6 We are of God: he that knoweth God heareth us; he that is not of God heareth not us.



Very true Jimmy!


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## MW

Contra_Mundum said:


> "So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus. Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, to make you obey its passions."



Bruce, it says "dead to sin," not "self." Self is very much alive in the process.

For Christians there is a glorying in God as Creator and Sustainer of the present life and blessings we enjoy, and straight sexuality is one of those things. Not that it justifies "pride;" but it does warrant a genuine appreciation of and sense of dignity in being normal.


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## God'sElectSaint

You know whether my post was offensive or maybe posted in the improper place If the Spirit of God convicts the soul of one precious person struggling with homosexuality that would be worth the whole facebook community condemning me.


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## Ryan J. Ross

Edward, I would not use that type of reasoning. It is a slippery slope from there. As to whether it was wise to post, I cannot say. I have found FB to give the impression that God has given people "teaching" platforms that He has not. I would caution you to be careful when posting about holy religion on such a medium. If can be just as adverse as it is helpful or hopeful.

Certainly defend your belief when so prompted, but I wouldn't baptize criticing hmsxlty in public just because someone said they support and/or are hmsxl.


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## Miss Marple

I don't know. There is a time to be silent, and a time to speak. If you feel like speaking and it isn't a sin, well, speak.

I live in San Francisco and we were going through what the rest of the country is going through now, twenty years ago. A lot of people were quiet.


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## God'sElectSaint

Ryan J. Ross said:


> Edward, I would not use that type of reasoning. It is a slippery slope from there. As to whether it was wise to post, I cannot say. I have found FB to give the impression that God has given people "teaching" platforms that He has not. I would caution you to be careful when posting about holy religion on such a medium. If can be just as adverse as it is helpful or hopeful.
> 
> Certainly defend your belief when so prompted, but I wouldn't baptize criticing hmsxlty in public just because someone said they support and/or are hmsxl.



In retrospect I think your right and Jimmy made a good point about casting pearls to swine. But I honestly don't think i criticized homosexuality at all really. Maybe from a wordly view it seemed that way but I think I actually attempted to cast away the stigma that homosexuality is "the great sin" of Christianity by merely stating that it just plain old sin nothing special about it. Of course from our society's view if you even dare call sin sin your judgmental and a hatemonger. Facebook may not have been the best place to post that but I think the reasoning of preaching the offensive, stumbling block of the Gospel for the sake of even one lost sinner despite the harsh feedback we know we will face is at the heartbeat of Christianity. No one understands, no one seeks God and our message will offend the masses. But I will practice more discernment though I do not regret it as it was a learning experience.


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## Ryan J. Ross

Edward,

Preaching is one thing; a FB post is another. I'd like to uphold the distinction for a variety of reasons. I also wouldn't want simply to lump unnatural relations against the natural order as any plain old sin.

WLC QA 99.8 and 150–51.


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## Ryan J. Ross

Edward,

I should have added Section 3, to the Answer of WLC Question 151. I do want to express, however, that I am not making a judgment as to whether you committed a sin in your FB post.


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## God'sElectSaint

Ryan J. Ross said:


> Edward,
> 
> Preaching is one thing; a FB post is another. I'd like to uphold the distinction for a variety of reasons. I also wouldn't want simply to lump unnatural relations against the natural order as any plain old sin.
> 
> WLC QA 99.8 and 150–51.



any old plain sin was too general a term sorry my point was it's not an unforgivable one or that they are lost forver in it. It is washable like all our sins.


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## Physeter

One thing to keep in mind about this particular sin- hmsx is that it is a very antithetical to the Judeo-Christian paradigm. In scripture it is held in abomination and those that practice this sin are very well aware of of that. It is only natural for them to be very hostile to anyone who posts anything remotely Christian on a media like Facebook.


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## VictorBravo

When talking about this subject, I think it important to remember that something bigger than a person committing sin is going on. Remember Romans 1. This behavior that is celebrated is itself a judgment for rejecting the plainly revealed God of Creation:

Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: 
Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 

In rejecting God, they become fools in their professed “wisdom” (1:22) and become idolatrous (1:23).

The result of this is this peculiar passion: “Wherefore *God also gave them up* to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.” (1:24)

And Paul makes explicit what he is talking about in verses 26 and 27.

So while practicing homosexuality is indeed a sin, we see something even more sobering than a person sinning: we see God's judgment at work upon rebels. Simply saying one should not do this sin is only a small part of the reality. 

When we see folks caught up in this sin, or even supporting others’ “right” to this sin, we see the judgment of God at work. On one level, it ought to cause us to stand in fear and trembling, feeling pity even, at what has happened to these people. It demonstrates something plain to all: without repentance of our rebellion against the truth of God’s existence, the natural order is to be upended. The rebellious creatures are given leave to see what life is like without the benefit of God's protective ordering in his universe.

May God be merciful to them, and also to us who believe these words. The foundational issue is, as it always was, repentance unto life and acknowledging that God is God.


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## God'sElectSaint

VictorBravo said:


> When talking about this subject, I think it important to remember that something bigger than a person committing sin is going on. Remember Romans 1. This behavior that is celebrated is itself a judgment for rejecting the plainly revealed God of Creation:
> 
> Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:
> Rom 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.
> 
> In rejecting God, they become fools in their professed “wisdom” (1:22) and become idolatrous (1:23).
> 
> The result of this is this peculiar passion: “Wherefore *God also gave them up* to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonor their own bodies between themselves.” (1:24)
> 
> And Paul makes explicit what he is talking about in verses 26 and 27.
> 
> So while practicing homosexuality is indeed a sin, we see something even more sobering than a person sinning: we see God's judgment at work upon rebels. Simply saying one should not do this sin is only a small part of the reality.
> 
> When we see folks caught up in this sin, or even supporting others’ “right” to this sin, we see the judgment of God at work. On one level, it ought to cause us to stand in fear and trembling, feeling pity even, at what has happened to these people. It demonstrates something plain to all: without repentance of our rebellion against the truth of God’s existence, the natural order is to be upended. The rebellious creatures are given leave to see what life is like without the benefit of God's protective ordering in his universe.
> 
> May God be merciful to them, and also to us who believe these words. The foundational issue is, as it always was, repentance unto life and acknowledging that God is God.



Their is profound truth in this comparing Romans 1 to our culture today is startling to say the least.


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