# Use of Anthropomorphic Language in Songs



## Jared (Oct 27, 2010)

What do you think about using anthropomorphic language when speaking about God and His ways in songs? The Bible says a lot of things that sound really strange if you don't realize that it's using anthropomorphic language. You could come away from certain passages feeling like you have support for open theism and all kinds of other false doctrines if you didn't know any better.

So, what about speaking this way in songs? There are two songs in particular that I'm thinking of. I don't know if either of these artists are Reformed in any sense although I have my doubts. The first song is from Nichole Nordeman. I will try to post the lyrics and highlight the parts that I think could be making use of anthropomorphic language. It they're not using anthropomorphic language, then their doctrine is way off.

[video=youtube;dr-lB5ELHes]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dr-lB5ELHes[/video]

Say goodnight to the light of the setting sun
One more day, one more way
Of keeping track of all I've done

I run this race, keep this pace
I'm doing fine
And I won't stop until each box
Gets checked a second time

And life becomes the round and round
Revolving door that won't slow down
It won't slow down

*Do You wish, do You want us to breathe again?*
Say goodbye to the lines that we've coloured in
Brown and grey from day to day
*Do You cry, do You hope for all things made new?
Try and try to invoke us to live in You*
That we might be the hands and feet of this mystery 

This routine is nice and clean from dawn to dusk
I rise and rest, I do my best
When will it ever be enough?

And life becomes the bigger noise
Drowning out Your little voice
Your little voice, Jesus

Do You wish, do You want us to breathe again?
Say goodbye to the lines that we've coloured in
Brown and grey from day to day
Do You cry, do You hope for all things made new?
Try and try to invoke us to live in You
That we might be the hands and feet of this mystery

We take stock, and we punch the clock
And we make sure all those zeros have balanced in the end

Do You wish, do You want us to breathe again?
Say goodbye to the lines that we've coloured in
Brown and grey from day to day
Do You cry, do You hope for all things made new?
Try and try to invoke us to live in You
That we might be the hands and feet of this mystery 


The other song that I was thinking about is by the gospel artist Smokie Norful.

[video=youtube;yLQbtLZmnbc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yLQbtLZmnbc[/video]


Verse 1:
Sometimes it's seems hard to see I'm there for you.
And sometimes it's hard for you to see I'm there with you.
Be strong, hold on and know, I'm right there in the middle.

Chorus:
When you cried, (I was there).
When you were sad, (I made you happy).
When you were alone, (I was your friend),
I'm in the middle.

When you were in need, (I provided)
When you couldn't see, (I led the way)
(I was there to see you, see you through it all)
I'm right there in the middle, in the middle of.

Verse 2:
*Sometimes I know in my heart that you really love me.
But other times I must question your faith.*
Don't give up, always love God,
don't give in (I'm right there in the middle)

Chorus 2:
When you cried, (I was there).
When you were sad, (I made you happy).
When you were alone, (I was your friend),
I'm in the middle.

When you were in need, (I provided)
When you couldn't see, (I led the way)
(I was there to see you through it all)
I'm right there in the middle, in the middle of.
(In the middle of your pain and your heartache), 
in the middle, in the middle of.

Bridge:
I was there in the middle of your pain, 
I was there when they tried to take your hope away,
I was there when you didn't know your right from wrong.

I was there when your friends walked out on you,
I was there when you didn't know what to do, 
when you searched and found all of your family was gone.

When you couldn't see your night from day,
Oh I was there when you couldn't find your way,
I was there from the beginning until the very end,
I was there, I was there, it was me. 
I was there I heard every plea, 
I'll come running everytime.

Ending:
Be strong, (just hold on and know)
(I'm right there in) in the middle, in the middle of,
I'm right there, right there in the middle of.


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## toddpedlar (Oct 27, 2010)

They are both TERRIBLE (and that is putting it kindly and mildly - wicked and evil are closer to my true opinion of such songs as these) misrepresentations of who God is and who He has revealed Himself to be and a good example of why psalmody is to be preferred and theologically solid hymnody (if you aren't strict RPW) is the only reasonable addition to the psalms.


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## KMK (Oct 27, 2010)

But, Todd, these songs are played on CCM radio and Christian bookstores sell the cds! They can't be heretical!


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## toddpedlar (Oct 27, 2010)

ah yes. I forgot. I'm always being accused of being too picky. My bad.


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## Jared (Oct 27, 2010)

toddpedlar said:


> They are both TERRIBLE (and that is putting it kindly and mildly - wicked and evil are closer to my true opinion of such songs as these) misrepresentations of who God is and who He has revealed Himself to be and a good example of why psalmody is to be preferred and theologically solid hymnody (if you aren't strict RPW) is the only reasonable addition to the psalms.



Would it be wrong to put this in a song:

Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.”


This is in the Bible. So, it's wrong to speak this way in a song? I'm not so sure these artists weren't intentionally using anthropomorphic language as the scriptures themselves do. The parable of the prodigal son would lead us to believe that God is waiting for us to return to Him if we are backslidden. Is that a theologically accurate picture? I believe in irresistible grace just as much as the next guy, but it does seem that there is a place for that kind of imagery since it is used in the Bible by Jesus Himself.


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## puritanpilgrim (Oct 27, 2010)

> Would it be wrong to put this in a song:
> 
> Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.”



That depends if your EP or not. If you EP then the answer is no. If your not EP the answer is yes. (I'm not being relativistic. Of course the truth continues to be regardless of what anyone thinks.)


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## raekwon (Oct 28, 2010)

toddpedlar said:


> They are both TERRIBLE (and that is putting it kindly and mildly - wicked and evil are closer to my true opinion of such songs as these) misrepresentations of who God is and who He has revealed Himself to be and a good example of why psalmody is to be preferred and theologically solid hymnody (if you aren't strict RPW) is the only reasonable addition to the psalms.


 
Hold on. Are these even intended as "worship" songs for the church's use?


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## Andres (Oct 28, 2010)

Jared Hanley said:


> Would it be wrong to put this in a song:
> Then the Lord said, “Because the outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is great and their sin is very grave, I will go down to see whether they have done altogether according to the outcry that has come to me. And if not, I will know.”
> 
> This is in the Bible. So, it's wrong to speak this way in a song?



Scripture is divinely inspired; it's God's Holy Word. Any other spiritual writings, whether they be books, articles, or song lyrics are going to simply be men's thoughts. I see a big difference between the two.

---------- Post added at 12:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:34 AM ----------




raekwon said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> > They are both TERRIBLE (and that is putting it kindly and mildly - wicked and evil are closer to my true opinion of such songs as these) misrepresentations of who God is and who He has revealed Himself to be and a good example of why psalmody is to be preferred and theologically solid hymnody (if you aren't strict RPW) is the only reasonable addition to the psalms.
> ...


 
Regardless of what the intent of the songs may be, the theology is still erroneous nonetheless.


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## raekwon (Oct 28, 2010)

Andres said:


> raekwon said:
> 
> 
> > toddpedlar said:
> ...


 
Okay, but does every piece of art by a believing artist have to reflect error-free theology? I understand that it might not be wise to unleash songs with bad theology onto an undiscerning public, but... would it somehow be not okay for a Christian to write song lyrics, poetry, or prose that reflected the thoughts of his heart and mind (even if that doesn't reflect what Scripture says)?


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## Andres (Oct 28, 2010)

raekwon said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > raekwon said:
> ...


 
I'm not sure I'm understanding your question... if you're asking if we have a right to expect every bit of art that comes from Christians to be error-free, then no I don't think this is realistic because these artists are fallible men and women. They make mistakes from time to time just like we all do. However, I do think that a Christian artist should have some responsibility in the content of their artistic endeavors. So if you're asking if we should just give Christians a "pass" on bad theology because they are simply expressing their thoughts and not trying to preach a sermon, then no, I would disagree. 
Why would/should an artist show disregard for the truth's of scripture? No Christian should ever do this in any area of their life.


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## raekwon (Oct 28, 2010)

I guess I don't know if I'd necessarily call such a thing a "disregard for the truths of scripture." But I agree with what you say about responsibility in artistic endeavors.


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## Philip (Oct 28, 2010)

I agree that this is an example of the overly-sentimental pablum typical of CCM for the past ten years.

That said, it doesn't look like either of these songs is meant for worship _at all_.

I also wonder if, as reformed folks, we're uneasy with expressions of what the Christian life _feels_ like from the inside.


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## Jack K (Oct 28, 2010)

To answer your question about anthropomorphic language...

I wouldn't say there's any problem with that sort of language in itself. Sometimes we need to think of God in somewhat human terms just to understand him at all, even as we acknowledge that these human terms convey just a fraction of God's true nature. The Bible does this (fairly often) when it speaks, say, of God's heart. So to speak of God's heart in a song is actually to use biblical language.

But whether we're using anthropomorphic language or not, we ought to do so in a way that expresses truth about God. So if I wrote a song that said God rides the wind as if the clouds were his chariot, I'm being very anthropomorphic about God. But I'm expressing something _true_ about God—his sovereignty. (I'm also borrowing from Psalm 104) The problem these particular songs have is not that they use anthropomorphisms, but that they use them in a way that expresses falsehoods about God:
-- Does God cry? Our theology would say he does not suffer.
-- Does God try and try to invoke us to live in him? That sounds like he's a beggar who can't get us to do what he wants.
-- Is God unsure whether or not we love him? No, he knows all thing things.

That said, we must remember that these songs are a cry of the artist's heart. Such cries, like our own, are not always theologically correct. So I acknowledge there may be some room for an artist to express what he or she feels even though that artist knows it isn't really right. But I wouldn't want to use such a song for corporate worship. And in these particular cases, I suspect the artists are just theologically loose. The result is that the songs will not be helpful to most listeners.


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## JBaldwin (Oct 28, 2010)

Jack K said:


> To answer your question about anthropomorphic language...
> 
> I wouldn't say there's any problem with that sort of language in itself. Sometimes we need to think of God in somewhat human terms just to understand him at all, even as we acknowledge that these human terms convey just a fraction of God's true nature. The Bible does this (fairly often) when it speaks, say, of God's heart. So to speak of God's heart in a song is actually to use biblical language.
> 
> ...



I agree, Jack, and that is my greatest problem with these songs. Anything that is presented in worship should be theologically sound and in accordance with the scriptures. Since we non-EP'rs launch out and use other music in worship, it must not lead us away from what is true about God or what is theologically correct.


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## toddpedlar (Oct 28, 2010)

raekwon said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > raekwon said:
> ...


 
Do you think it's ok to put forth such thoughts in song (if not intended for worship) when such thoughts a) display falsehoods about God by putting words into his mouth that are not consistent in any way with Scripture, and b) promote the idea that Jesus is not the omnipotent ruler of all, able to accomplish all that He desires to accomplish? "Cry of the heart" or not, these songs falsely speak of God the Father and God the Son. As such I could never in any sense, for any purpose, countenance them. I have a hard time reconciling the idea that such songs are "ok" with a Reformed understanding of Scripture and the Christian life.


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## Philip (Oct 28, 2010)

> Do you think it's ok to put forth such thoughts in song (if not intended for worship) when such thoughts a) display falsehoods about God by putting words into his mouth that are not consistent in any way with Scripture, and b) promote the idea that Jesus is not the omnipotent ruler of all, able to accomplish all that He desires to accomplish? "Cry of the heart" or not, these songs falsely speak of God the Father and God the Son. As such I could never in any sense, for any purpose, countenance them. I have a hard time reconciling the idea that such songs are "ok" with a Reformed understanding of Scripture and the Christian life.



Non-unique. Has any theologian since John written something that was inerrant? Just because you can't see the errors doesn't mean that they aren't there. So why should we hold music to a higher standard? No one has perfect theology---thank goodness that we aren't saved by having correct theology, otherwise we're all damned.



> Does God cry? Our theology would say he does not suffer.



Yet He did.



> Does God try and try to invoke us to live in him?



Sure, through the preaching of the word to all.

"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!" (Mt 23:37)


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## Jack K (Oct 28, 2010)

P. F. Pugh said:


> > Does God cry? Our theology would say he does not suffer.
> 
> 
> 
> Yet He did.



Incredibly, God became a man to suffer as a man for our sin. This in spite of the fact that properly (as the doctrine of impassability reminds us) God does not suffer.



P. F. Pugh said:


> > Does God try and try to invoke us to live in him?
> 
> 
> 
> Sure, through the preaching of the word to all.



Yes, but not with the tone of a desperate beggar who's hoping we'll respond but is helpless to do anything about it except beg more, which is the tone I took from that lyric.

The theology in these songs seems at best to be somewhat lazy. It sounds like it assumes a God who's full of desire for his people (a correct doctrine) but somewhat lacking in true authority and power.


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## Skyler (Oct 28, 2010)

Should we judge songs based on how good they are or how bad they are? Because I think you can have a song that's not really _bad_ theology, but doesn't have much of any good theology either. On the other hand you could have a song that has some really good theology mixed with some bad theology (can anyone say Charles Wesley?).


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## Jack K (Oct 28, 2010)

toddpedlar said:


> Do you think it's ok to put forth such thoughts in song (if not intended for worship) when such thoughts a) display falsehoods about God by putting words into his mouth that are not consistent in any way with Scripture, and b) promote the idea that Jesus is not the omnipotent ruler of all, able to accomplish all that He desires to accomplish? "Cry of the heart" or not, these songs falsely speak of God the Father and God the Son. As such I could never in any sense, for any purpose, countenance them. I have a hard time reconciling the idea that such songs are "ok" with a Reformed understanding of Scripture and the Christian life.



Well, I could see limited purposes for not-quite-correct cries of the heart in song. The best art often does not make its case through direct statements. Sometimes it carefully expresses what the artist feels and brings you in a more subtle way to the point of seeing truth or even arguing in your mind against what the artist is saying directly. It can be somewhat like the book of Job, where honest dialogue and the process of questioning God are more important than stating propositional truth right out of the gate. Where truth remains the ultimate goal I'd like to allow some wiggle room for such an artist, though it'd have to be done by a very sharp and sophisticated songwriter and I don't think the examples we have here fit the bill.


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## earl40 (Oct 28, 2010)

toddpedlar said:


> They are both TERRIBLE (and that is putting it kindly and mildly - wicked and evil are closer to my true opinion of such songs as these) misrepresentations of who God is and who He has revealed Himself to be and a good example of why psalmody is to be preferred and theologically solid hymnody (if you aren't strict RPW) is the only reasonable addition to the psalms.


 
Todd are you "losing your religion" and are you not happy that "God is not one of us"? jk


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