# To what extent does the regulative principle govern body postures?



## Pergamum (Dec 31, 2011)

Body postures are not indifferent. To what extent does the regulative principle govern postures in worship? Is regional/cultural variety permitted?


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## deleteduser99 (Dec 31, 2011)

I don't think that the regulative principle extends that far, but that's where you take in consideration what the Confessions call the light of nature--or in other words, common sense.

Chapter 1, Section 6
"...there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and the government of the church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed."

A good example of this is Paul addressing head coverings and hair length in 1 Corinthians 11, where he doesn't appeal to any Scriptural authority on the subjects, but simply the light of nature. The regulative principle puts Scriptural mandates on the elements of worship, the things we know that must be present for it to be Scriptural worship (eg. public reading, prayer, singing, preaching), but the light of nature determines the circumstances in which those elements are done (eg. standing/sitting, types of seating, pulpit placement, meeting place location and setup, etc.). Those are determined by what you know to be most helpful, or even necessary, considering the circumstances and situation.


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## elnwood (Dec 31, 2011)

The RPW governs elements of worship. I don't think it applies to postures in worship.

If it did, what postures of worship would it mandate? Beyond regional/cultural variety, we have individual variety as well.


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## Tim (Dec 31, 2011)

I note that the Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland recognizes standing and kneeling as the two prayer postures for which there is scriptural precept and example. My experience in two of their worship services is that the congregation stands for prayer and sits for singing, which is the opposite of most congregations today. 

Standing at Prayer

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According to the article, the practice of standing for prayer was a universal Presbyterian practice in the past. This leads me to believe that this issue is one of the many issues for which we have forgotten the biblical reasons why things were done in a certain way. Posture used in worship today is deemed by many as something that doesn't matter, but I am not so sure after learning about that which is mentioned above.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 31, 2011)

Posture is circumstantial unless it is prescribed.


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## JP Wallace (Dec 31, 2011)

I think posture in prayer is quite important and is prescribed in the qualified sense that there is evidence for a number of postures and none for others. RPW would require us to only pray in public worship in a posture that we find evidence for in the Scriptures. I'm not sure there is any evidence of sitting. However, neither is there sufficient warrant to require standing, as it seems there is a place for prostration as well.

We stand for prayer in our church mainly, though we remain seated for the short post-offering prayer. We started doing so about 14 months ago, it has been well received by the church, most thinking it aids them in reverencing prayer and keeping concentration as prayer is led.


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## Pergamum (Dec 31, 2011)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Posture is circumstantial unless it is prescribed.



Can you give me a list of Scripture where body posture is prescribed? 


It seems that the light of nature and common sense allow us to say that we shouldn't pray standing on our head. But do we have more to go on, or must arguments regarding body posture in worship always go back to merely common sense or similar arguments?

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JP Wallace said:


> I think posture in prayer is quite important and is prescribed in the qualified sense that there is evidence for a number of postures and none for others. RPW would require us to only pray in public worship in a posture that we find evidence for in the Scriptures. I'm not sure there is any evidence of sitting. However, neither is there sufficient warrant to require standing, as it seems there is a place for prostration as well.
> 
> We stand for prayer in our church mainly, though we remain seated for the short post-offering prayer. We started doing so about 14 months ago, it has been well received by the church, most thinking it aids them in reverencing prayer and keeping concentration as prayer is led.



Paul, is there any evidence for praying from a sitting position?

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If the elders of the church desired the congregation to lay prostrate on the ground face down for prayer, would this be appropriate at times for prayers asking for forgiveness, etc? Or lifting up hands towards heaven?


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## elnwood (Jan 1, 2012)

I would think that "pray without ceasing" (1 Thessalonians 5:17) means that you can do it while standing, sitting, walking, driving, lying down, etc.


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## Pergamum (Jan 1, 2012)

Don,

Is praying without ceasing different than the prayers done in corporate worship? The latter would be more strictly governed wouldn't they?


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## JP Wallace (Jan 1, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> Paul, is there any evidence for praying from a sitting position?



I did a little study on this a while back and could find no evidence of sitting in a public prayer scenario, not prostration for that matter. The predominant posture in public prayer was standing. Here's what I said in a sermon a while back.


*THREE MAIN POSTURES OF PRAYER MENTIONED IN SCRIPTURE....
*
*KNEELING*

Luke 22:41 “41 And He was withdrawn from them about a stone’s throw, and He knelt down and prayed,”
Psalms 95:6 “6 Oh come, let us worship and bow down; Let us kneel before the LORD our Maker.”
Acts 9:40 “40 But Peter put them all out, and knelt down and prayed. And turning to the body he said, “Tabitha, arise.” And she opened her eyes, and when she saw Peter she sat up.”

Many other texts.....none that I can determine (apart from perhaps psalm 95 are CLOSELY TIED TO PUBLIC WORSHIP...and as I said I SUGGEST we consider this for PRIVATE PRAYER...

*LYING PROSTRATE
*
Matthew 26:38, 39 “38 Then He said to them, “My soul is exceedingly sorrowful, even to death. Stay here and watch with Me.” 39 He went a little farther and fell on His face, and prayed, saying, “O My Father, if it is possible, let this cup pass from Me; nevertheless, not as I will, but as You will.””

Luke 22:44 “44 And being in agony, He prayed more earnestly. Then His sweat became like great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”

THIS SEEMS to indicate a POSTURE FOR PRAYER...when we are very desparate...very serious, very humbled or whatever.....no clear evidence of this as public worship posture.

*STANDING*.....

Solomon dedicating the temple...

2 Chronicles 6:3 “3 Then the king turned around and blessed the whole assembly of Israel, while all the assembly of Israel was standing.” (now later on he kneels!)

Consider the assumption Jesus makes when we read in

Mark 11:25 “25 “And whenever you stand praying, if you have anything against anyone, forgive him, that your Father in heaven may also forgive you your trespasses.”

Observe the custom note in 

Luke 18:13 “13 “And the tax collector, standing afar off, would not so much as raise his eyes to heaven, but beat his breast, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me a sinner!’”

Nehemiah 9:1-3 “1 Now on the twenty-fourth day of this month the children of Israel were assembled with fasting, in sackcloth, and with dust on their heads. 2 Then those of Israelite lineage separated themselves from all foreigners; and they stood and confessed their sins and the iniquities of their fathers. 3 And they stood up in their place and read from the Book of the Law of the LORD their God for one-fourth of the day; and for another fourth they confessed and worshiped the LORD their God.”

This seems to be the posture most clearly tied to a public setting.

*INTERESTINGLY THERE IS SCANT IF ANY WARRANT FOR SITTING DURING PRAYER!...*
not clear examples anyway....example of David who went in and sat before the Lord BUT I THINK THAT CAN and probably does refer to the FACT he stayed put where he was for a good duration of time before the Lord (2 Samuel 7)

Another example in Acts 2 the SPirit comes upon the disciple AS THEY SAT IN THE HOUSE....but no reference that they were praying...probably warrant for SITTING at some stage during WORSHIP, probably listening to Peter!....but I’m not convinced that WE CAN SAY that SITTING IS WRONG EVEN SO....posture OF PRAYER must surely be secondary to PURSUIT OF PRAYER......

What I would say in addition is that standing is widely accepted as being a mark or respect/reverence.

Leviticus 19:32 “32 ‘You shall rise before the gray headed and honor the presence of an old man, and fear your God: I am the LORD.”

Well the Lord is in our midst in public worship and at least when we are speaking to Him it would not do any harm to stand before Him?

Psalms 46:5 “5 God is in the midst of her, she shall not be moved; God shall help her, just at the break of dawn.”

Matthew 18:20 “20 “For where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there in the midst of them.””


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## Pergamum (Jan 1, 2012)

Thanks Paul for your sermon notes.


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