# Federal Vision in the PCA: Missouri Presbytery and Jeffrey Meyers



## sastark (Apr 20, 2011)

Maybe someone has posted this already and I missed it, but apparently the Missouri Presbytery of the PCA has denied the complaint against the exoneration of TE Jeffrey Meyers. Wes White has posted an summary of the Presbytery's actions, as well as a link to the full report, here: MO Presbytery denies complaint against exoneration of TE Jeffrey Meyers « Johannes Weslianus

A very troubling quote, which Wes quotes at the beginning of his post, from the Presbytery's report is:



> “ . . . no one school of interpretation on these disputed issues should be adopted as the only orthodox position to the exclusion of the others.” (Report of the Complaint Review Committee, 62)



So much for WCF 1.9 ("not manifold, but one").


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## Osage Bluestem (Apr 20, 2011)

sastark said:


> Maybe someone has posted this already and I missed it, but apparently the Missouri Presbytery of the PCA has denied the complaint against the exoneration of TE Jeffrey Meyers. Wes White has posted an summary of the Presbytery's actions, as well as a link to the full report, here: MO Presbytery denies complaint against exoneration of TE Jeffrey Meyers « Johannes Weslianus
> 
> A very troubling quote, which Wes quotes at the beginning of his post, from the Presbytery's report is:
> 
> ...


 
I still don't really understand Federal Vision. It seems like it is salvation by works. How could a Reformed community embrace that?


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## Curt (Apr 20, 2011)

Osage Bluestem said:


> It seems like it is salvation by works. How could a Reformed community embrace that?



Among other things. Reasonable question.


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## sastark (Apr 20, 2011)

Osage Bluestem said:


> I still don't really understand Federal Vision. It seems like it is salvation by works. How could a Reformed community embrace that?



Working the system. Being double-tongued. Packing the court with your buddies. Crossing your fingers when you take your oaths. Those are all possible ways someone could advocate salvation by works and remain in a Reformed denomination...for a time.


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## TimV (Apr 20, 2011)

The kids are playing grown up, but I'm sure they'll get spanked by the GA.


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## Curt (Apr 20, 2011)

TimV said:


> The kids are playing grown up, but I'm sure they'll get spanked by the GA.



I'm not holding my breath.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 20, 2011)

The wheels of presbyterianism grind very slowly.


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## Notthemama1984 (Apr 21, 2011)

It is interesting that in a thread about the PCA, none of the replies are from people in the PCA.

I am not making any conclusions, just thought it was interesting.


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## Curt (Apr 21, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> It is interesting that in a thread about the PCA, none of the replies are from people in the PCA.



I used to be...


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## Romans922 (Apr 21, 2011)

Let me change the non-PCAness of this thread.


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## Gage Browning (Apr 21, 2011)

sastark said:


> Osage Bluestem said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't really understand Federal Vision. It seems like it is salvation by works. How could a Reformed community embrace that?
> ...


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## Osage Bluestem (Apr 21, 2011)

Curt said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > It is interesting that in a thread about the PCA, none of the replies are from people in the PCA.
> ...


 
Me too.


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## Gage Browning (Apr 21, 2011)

Osage Bluestem said:


> Curt said:
> 
> 
> > Chaplainintraining said:
> ...


 
Well I used to be a Baptist, and then moved into the PCA...


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## Hebrew Student (Apr 21, 2011)

I attend a PCA church when I visit my parents in the summer, so, this is somewhat relevant to me.

I too find this quote disturbing:



> “ . . . no one school of interpretation on these disputed issues should be adopted as the only orthodox position to the exclusion of the others.” (Report of the Complaint Review Committee, 62)



That is difficult to sustain in light of Galatians 1:6-8:

Galatians 1:6-8 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel; 7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!

Doesn't sound like Paul would have said that "no one school of interpretation on these disputed issues should be adopted as the only orthodox position to the exclusion of the others.” Paul's writings are very severe when it comes to the mixing of grace and works.

Furthermore, the phrase "school of interpretation" is ironic since this whole "Interpretational Maximalism" has gotten way out of hand. Unfortunately, folks like Gary DeMar are pushing it from the orthodox side. I would say you can prove almost anything you want with this kind of hermeneutic. We do not use language this way in our everyday speech, and if someone tried to interpret our words in the way folks like James Jordan and Peter Leitheart interpret the Bible, we would be very upset. Worse than that, whenever people misrepresent the scriptures, whether because of an a priori theological commitment or because of a faulty hermeneutic from which they refuse to repent, they are guilty of bearing false witness against God himself. That is hardly something Moses would have said, "No one view of this should be taken to the exclusion of others." It is sinful enough to bear false witness against our fellow man; to bear false witness against God himself is all the more sinful.

God Bless,
Adam


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## athanatos (Apr 21, 2011)

It was my understanding that FV included works in the overall analysis of the man, not just whether he had faith. In this sense, it emphasizes _faithfulness_ rather than _faith_.

Thus, when Romans 2 speaks of our works and being given eternal life it is genuinely a discussion on salvation with our participation (not that we did these works apart from grace).


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