# Gluttony?



## Rufus (Jun 17, 2011)

What do you guys define as gluttony? And other things related to that such as moderate eating and such.

I'm a teenager so I guess I eat, a lot, but I want to know how much is too much.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

Are you fat? If so, you are a glutton. If not, you have a high metabolism.


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## Rufus (Jun 17, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Are you fat? If so, you are a glutton. If not, you have a high metabolism.



Some people are fat because of diease or a low metabolism so you can't throw away everybody that is.
I'm not, used to be, lost tons of weight between 7th and 8th grade, after that I was extremely skinny, since than I have gained some back.


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## Edward (Jun 17, 2011)

Q. 135. What are the duties required in the sixth commandment?

...a sober use of meat, drink, physic, sleep, labour, and recreations...

Q. 136. What are the sins forbidden in the sixth commandment?

...immoderate use of meat, drink, labor, and recreations; ...

Westminster Larger Catechism


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

I am not talking about everyone. You seemed to ask if you were a glutton. I was only referring to you. I do understand that people have medical issues that cause them to gain weight. Even prenatal vitamins can cause weight gain.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 17, 2011)

Gluttony should be properly defined as eating and drinking more than you need, and in that sense most Americans are guilty regardless of whether or not they are fat. A trip to the local McDonalds will confirm that most people overeat, but only some gain significant weight.


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## Rufus (Jun 17, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Gluttony should be properly defined as eating and drinking more than you need, and in that sense most Americans are guilty regardless of whether or not they are fat. A trip to the local McDonalds will confirm that most people overeat, but only some gain significant weight.



I actually went to McDonalds today


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

You cannot define gluttony merely on the amount of food digested. When I was working in a warehouse unloading trucks, I was consuming 4,000+ calories a day. The amount of food I consumed was intense, but those calories were needed as fuel because of my job.

Your body naturally will tell you when you eat too much.


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## nwink (Jun 17, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Your body naturally will tell you when you eat too much.



On a side-note, I've read before that the ideal eating scenario for a person is to eat 5 smaller meals each day. When we in America eat 3 square meals a day, we get the calories we actually need plus some extra (because of the time it takes for the food to fully register the "full" feeling...or just when people eat too much...or just to "carry us over" to the next meal). This extra calorie amount is then stored as fat, so that's why some people recommend 5 smaller meals a day instead of 3 square meals. Also, when you eat more spread throughout the day, it keeps your metabolism going more which burns calories more than when not eating between lunch and dinner. Just an interesting thought...


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## VictorBravo (Jun 17, 2011)

I'd say gluttony can't be measured objectively, but subjectively. It's not the amount you eat, but the amount of devotion you have to eating that makes all the difference.

As an example, if you spend a significant amount of your time thinking about food or how to satisfy your cravings for food, at the expense of your health and your other spiritual duties, then you are probably a glutton.

But if you eat, say, 5000 calories a day, and burn it off because of your work, that is just your daily bread.


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## Frosty (Jun 17, 2011)

On a side-note, I've read before that the ideal eating scenario for a person is to eat 5 smaller meals each day. When we in America eat 3 square meals a day, we get the calories we actually need plus some extra (because of the time it takes for the food to fully register the "full" feeling...or just when people eat too much...or just to "carry us over" to the next meal). This extra calorie amount is then stored as fat, so that's why some people recommend 5 smaller meals a day instead of 3 square meals. Also, when you eat more spread throughout the day, it keeps your metabolism going more which burns calories more than when not eating between lunch and dinner. Just an interesting thought...[/QUOTE]

I have heard this idea also, but had not heard the reasoning behind it. Makes sense.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

Joshua said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > Are you fat? If so, you are a glutton.
> ...



I apologize if it seems uncharitable, but the scenario works for an overwhelming majority of Americans. There are some who have conditions, but most simply overeat.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

I apologize. I did not realize that one was required to list a lengthy disclaimer or all possible exceptions when speaking about sin in a normative way. 

I recognized medical conditions in my follow up posts and I intentionally did not define fat. I would also add that although my dad had a relative clean bill of health (clean arteries and no real problems) when he was 400 lbs, he was still a glutton and he would tell you as much. Some people could be gluttons for years before medical problems arise. The medical community has determined what is a healthy percentage of bodyfat (and it is not 5%). We should listen to these people and follow their guidance.


I do not think it is profitable to spend large amounts of time attempting to determine the sinfulness of hypothetical situations. Personally I think it is more profitable to determine the normative bounds of sin, recognize that exceptions do exist, and deal with those exceptions as they arise. 

I also apologize if my responses have stepped on people's toes. I realize that one's weight can be a touchy subject for some and I am not intentionally being rude, egotistical, or uncharitable.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

Joshua said:


> Ok, ya big meanie.



You are comparing me to Ben? I am honored. 

Or are you saying that Ben is the meanie, but I am the greater meanie?


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## KMK (Jun 17, 2011)

Prov 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty...

True gluttony, like drunkenness impedes productivity. Does food and lavish living drive the decisions you make during the day?


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 17, 2011)

Saying that one has to be fat to be a glutton is like saying one has to have an STD to be a fornicator.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Saying that one has to be fat to be a glutton is like saying one has to have an STD to be a fornicator.



Not really. The body has a natural way of dealing with excessive food consumption. This is in the form of storing the extra as fat. 

The body does not naturally produce an STD when one fornicates. It is a consequence that may or may not happen.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 17, 2011)

I am not disagreeing that fatness is generally a sign of gluttony, I am simply pointing out that there are many people who eat just as much and more than people who are fat and yet are not fat themselves. Does this mean that they are not equally gluttons just because they don't carry the outward "scarlet letter" of obesity?


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> I am not disagreeing that fatness is generally a sign of gluttony, I am simply pointing out that there are many people who eat just as much and more than people who are fat and yet are not fat themselves. Does this mean that they are not equally gluttons just because they don't carry the outward "scarlet letter" of obesity?



The body requires a certain amount of calories. This amount varies from person to person. I guarantee you that last summer I was eating much more than people who were severely obese. Was I a glutton? No, I needed the calories. 

A simple scale of calorie consumption cannot be the gauge for being a glutton. We cannot say that 2,500 calories is ok, but 2,501 calories is sinful.

---------- Post added at 04:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:35 PM ----------

An even better example is Michael Phelps. He east 12,000 calories a day. Here is his daily diet. 

Breakfast: Three fried-egg sandwiches loaded with cheese, lettuce, tomatoes, fried onions and mayonnaise. Two cups of coffee. One five-egg omelet. One bowl of grits. Three slices of French toast topped with powdered sugar. Three chocolate-chip pancakes.

Lunch: One pound of enriched pasta. Two large ham and cheese sandwiches with mayo on white bread. Energy drinks packing 1,000 calories.

Dinner: One pound of pasta. An entire pizza. More energy drinks.

Is Phelps a glutton? No, his body needs these calories for fuel.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 17, 2011)

Obviously caloric needs are different for everyone. No one has suggested a number of calories that once you exceed than you are a glutton. Being a glutton simply means eating significantly more than you need, however many calories that may be.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 17, 2011)

And your body has a natural way of showing that you consumed more than you needed. You gain weight.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 17, 2011)

That you can burn all the calories you've consumed does not justify feasting every day. As a matter of fact, I think the Bible indicates we are to live _as healthy as possible_. I, for one, am very cautious of what I put into my stomach. I very seldom, _if ever_, fall into _conscious_ gluttony (not to boast, but it's true). But I've learned to set my priorities so that my physical health does not go beyond my spiritual health. So, even if I'm really hungry in the morning, I first go have a portion of God's Word. And when I realize I'm in a pit of gluttony, I start fasting. That's the way it has to go, In my humble opinion.


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 18, 2011)

I am fat. This is mostly because of gluttony in the past. What frustrates me is that people assume there is extreme and persistent gluttony in the present, rather than a many-years-long battle with the legacy of a rather miserable teenage and early 20s.

I am glad for those who find food easy to handle and manage, and can boast about it here on the pb. For me (and for many others) I wish I could flick a switch and never have to eat again. Battling with food is not like battling with alcohol or tobbaco or other things - you have to eat to live. A touch more sensitivity would not go amiss in this area.


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## Herald (Jun 18, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> I am fat. This is mostly because of gluttony in the past. What frustrates me is that people assume there is extreme and persistent gluttony in the present, rather than a many-years-long battle with the legacy of a rather miserable teenage and early 20s.
> 
> I am glad for those who find food easy to handle and manage, and can boast about it here on the pb. For me (and for many others) I wish I could flick a switch and never have to eat again. Battling with food is not like battling with alcohol or tobbaco or other things - you have to eat to live. A touch more sensitivity would not go amiss in this area.


 
Jonathan, amen. I'm with you brother. Don't fret about the lack of sensitivity by some of the participants in this thread. They just don't get it. May the Lord protect them from a excessive paunch. 

sent from my most excellent Motorola Atrix.


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## JennyG (Jun 18, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Being a glutton simply means eating significantly more than you need, however many calories that may be.


I think it also covers being too much of a gourmet - putting too much thought into the quality of the food you eat. As Moliere said (I read it for A-level)
_Il faut manger pour vivre et non pas vivre pour manger_.
I'm not fat, but I'm a bit guilty in that way even so. I may not _vivre pour manger_, but when I'm going round the supermarket, I automatically bypass provisions (however healthy and economical) that make no appeal to my taste-buds

---------- Post added at 12:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:10 PM ----------

...some big bills have come in lately, so I'm trying to work on that


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 18, 2011)

I think it is important to point out that it really doesn't matter if you're fat or if you're in great shape. You can be fat at present and yet live healthy (however, there will be progress, if you're indeed living healthy!). You can be a body builder or even a fitness model and yet eat fast food every day of your life. Whether you look good _on the surface_ does not necessarily mean you're living healthy, nor does bad look mean you're not.


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## Scott1 (Jun 18, 2011)

> Westminster Larger Catechism
> _(emphasis added)_
> 
> Q. 139. What are the sins forbidden in the seventh commandment?
> ...


.

---------- Post added at 08:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:01 AM ----------

Overeating, seeking undue satisfaction from food tends toward destruction by lack of self-control. It is also related to the second command (idolatry).


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## Rich Koster (Jun 18, 2011)

VictorBravo said:


> I'd say gluttony can't be measured objectively, but subjectively. It's not the amount you eat, but the amount of devotion you have to eating that makes all the difference.
> 
> As an example, if you spend a significant amount of your time thinking about food or how to satisfy your cravings for food, at the expense of your health and your other spiritual duties, then you are probably a glutton.
> 
> But if you eat, say, 5000 calories a day, and burn it off because of your work, that is just your daily bread.



I am in agreement that the problem lies with the attitude, not the outward appearance. If you stuff yourself to the point of discomfort habitually or need to visit the vomitorium before you go for the next course, there is a problem. Someone who puts on weight due to disability, temporary confinement or aging and not being as active as they used to be, should not be considered a glutton. One of the biggest problems that I see, with food, is the structure of modern society dictating time frames for meals and most hourly workers are trained to woof down whatever they are having to beat the clock. Another example of the time problem is the dine behind the wheel lifestyle. If you have a weekly schedule structured to hit every all-you-can-eat buffet or pancake breakfast, you may very well have a problem. If you put on 2 pounds a year for 25 years, you may just have had a sit down job that requires very little physical exertion.


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## TimV (Jun 18, 2011)

> Gluttony should be properly defined as eating and drinking more than you need



The worst quote of the year award! How can you read the Bible without seeing that "His eyes will be red with wine" or "I will bring you into a land flowing with milk and honey" aren't blessings? The miracle was the the 4 Hebrew children got sleek on veggies. Normally it would have been on luxuries from the King's table.

If you can afford it, eat well. Use butter instead of margarine. After you're full, take another bite of steak. And PS, I think leaving food on your plate to be thrown away is more a sign of gluttony than finishing everything.


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## he beholds (Jun 18, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> And your body has a natural way of showing that you consumed more than you needed. You gain weight.



Have you honestly never seen a skinny person eat too much? Were you never a teenager or a college student or at a party or at a BBQ or at a Pizza shop or at the Cheesecake Factory or alive on Halloween? I'd think anyone who has ever had any sort of social life would know at least one person who is a waif but can down a bag of Doritos in one sitting. It doesn't matter if his body ends up using the calories or if he just has enviable metabolism, but I'd guess that a super-majority of even skinny young adult men have had bouts of gluttony. And obviously women, too. But I'm guessing your social group would be the former, so I'm trying to make a case that's relevant to you.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 18, 2011)

Gluttony, much like Greed, cannot be measured by mere outward appearance. Just as there are many poor people that are greedy there are many skinny folks who are gluttonous.


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## JennyG (Jun 18, 2011)

Jessie's right. the world is full of people whose metabolism allows them to gorge on rubbish without getting fat! Not to mention the unlucky ones for whom the reverse is true


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 18, 2011)

JennyG said:


> Jessie's right. the world is full of people whose metabolism allows them to gorge on rubbish without getting fat! Not to mention the unlucky ones for whom the reverse is true



But then again staying fit is not the measure of healthy life.


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## Andres (Jun 18, 2011)

VictorBravo said:


> I'd say gluttony can't be measured objectively, but subjectively. It's not the amount you eat, but the amount of devotion you have to eating that makes all the difference.



Vic has done the best job of defining gluttony above. With all due respect, I think many are missing the point of gluttony. Like all other sins, it's an issue of the heart. It's allowing food to become an idol.


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## Rufus (Jun 18, 2011)

Andres said:


> VictorBravo said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say gluttony can't be measured objectively, but subjectively. It's not the amount you eat, but the amount of devotion you have to eating that makes all the difference.
> ...


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## Mushroom (Jun 18, 2011)

Skinny people _can_ be gluttons, but fat people are _necessarily_ gluttons. To assert otherwise is incoherent. If they weren't gluttons, they wouldn't have too much fat on their bodies, since fat is stored excess fat.

I'm fat. I'm a glutton. Its another sin which I have not yet overcome through God's grace. I'm not going to call it something else to alleviate my sense of failure.


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## Kim G (Jun 18, 2011)

Brad said:


> Skinny people _can_ be gluttons, but fat people are _necessarily_ gluttons. To assert otherwise is incoherent. If they weren't gluttons, they wouldn't have too much fat on their bodies, since fat is stored excess fat.



This is a total lie, and one that is hurtful to many people. My dad and brother have thyroid problems mostly regulated by medicine. My mom is a diabetic even though she has always eaten very healthfully. Now she eats the equivalent of one meal a day to regulate her blood sugar and is "fat." Her doctor didn't even believe her when she wrote down what she ate in a week, because he said it was too little food to exist on. 

I have inherited "fat genes." After starving myself three times in my teens and early twenties to try to overcome these genes, my metabolism is ruined. I also have low blood sugar (had it since a little kid) that requires that I eat throughout the day. I eat regular amounts of food, I'm generally healthy, but I'm fat. Being fat doesn't bother me. Being told that I'm a lazy glutton does.

So when it comes to who's gluttonous, I say, "SPEAK FOR YOURSELF AND YOUR BODY." You don't know mine.


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## Andres (Jun 18, 2011)

Brad said:


> Skinny people _can_ be gluttons, but fat people are _necessarily_ gluttons. To assert otherwise is incoherent. If they weren't gluttons, they wouldn't have too much fat on their bodies, since fat is stored excess fat.
> 
> I'm fat. I'm a glutton. Its another sin which I have not yet overcome through God's grace. I'm not going to call it something else to alleviate my sense of failure.



Brad, 
I fear you are shooting a bit from the cuff with your above post my friend. I believe that I understand where you are coming from, and yes, there are many people who owe their overweight body to nothing more than simply overeating or gluttony. I am overweight and I will admit that I often enjoy good food and drink to excess. I think it's commendable that you are willing to admit the same and I think you are correct that many of us would do well to exercise some self-control when eating. However,(and this is a big "however"), as others have already stated, there are far too many variables to consider with each individual for us to make sweeping statements that every fat person is a glutton. I think once you take some time to reflect on your words you might see how your post could have been hurtful to others. Remember, it was only a few days ago that you started this thread - Treatment of Sisters on PB. I hope you'll reconsider your words friend because I know you would never intentially hurt another member here.


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## JennyG (Jun 18, 2011)

He expressed himself a little hastily, but I believe Brad *was* really meaning that he didn't want any slack cut *for himself* on this issue.
He was taking responsibility for himself - though actually it can't and shouldn't be made into a generalisation


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## Mushroom (Jun 18, 2011)

I am guilty daily of many sins; pride, idolatry, covetousness, impatience, lack of love, lack of repentance, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum. A person may be hard put to visibly deduce the effects of those sins, but my gluttony is evident for all to see. I have also been guilty of trying to excuse those sins by pleading circumstance or stress, all of which is incoherence. In the interest of avoiding offense, let me revise my statement to say that for this man to be fat, it is necessarily due to gluttony. I should not speak for others. My apologies.


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## he beholds (Jun 18, 2011)

Brad said:


> I am guilty daily of many sins; pride, idolatry, covetousness, impatience, lack of love, lack of repentance, etc., etc., ad infinitum, ad nauseum. A person may be hard put to visibly deduce the effects of those sins, but my gluttony is evident for all to see. I have also been guilty of trying to excuse those sins by pleading circumstance or stress, all of which is incoherence. In the interest of avoiding offense, let me revise my statement to say that for this man to be fat, it is necessarily due to gluttony. I should not speak for others. My apologies.


 
Then you might want to literally revise this via the edit button.



Brad said:


> Skinny people _can_ be gluttons, but fat people are _necessarily_ gluttons. To assert otherwise is incoherent. If they weren't gluttons, they wouldn't have too much fat on their bodies, since fat is stored excess fat.
> 
> I'm fat. I'm a glutton. Its another sin which I have not yet overcome through God's grace. I'm not going to call it something else to alleviate my sense of failure.



What about women who have had babies that have totally changed the way they look? What if they've had four babies in five years (just an example ) with not much time between pregnancies and nursing to do much about changing back to the way they looked pre-babies? What if even when they DID make pretty good progress, they got pregnant AGAIN? 
(Basically, are pregnant women, who are often fat by definition, _necessarily_ gluttons while they are currently pregnant or just afterward?)


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## Elizabeth (Jun 18, 2011)

Hmm, I remember being pregnant/nursing and of very hearty appetite. I didn't have a 'gluttonous' heart, though. I loved to eat. I craved things. I enjoyed my food. But, I had four healthy babes to show for it. T'was a joyous time. I was a bit plump. Didn't give it a thought. That time passed, the appetites returned to normal.

As an aside, I wonder why 'fatness' is often portrayed as a good thing in Scripture. Bounty, fat, marrow, richness. Is it possible to differentiate between gluttony and fatness? A skinny soul who has not a giving heart when it comes to grub is a glutton. He wants his portion to himself. A fat sort who shares joyfully perhaps less so, no? 

I dunno, just thinking it through. I think the 'grasping' nature of gluttony is the thing of which one wants to be careful. I know that grasping, in my evil heart, even as a thin person. Not wanting to share, not wanting to be joyous and thankful for God's very good provisions. 

Taste and see that the Lord is good!


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 18, 2011)

The worst quote of the year award!

Well then this is the worst post of the year award. According to you, there is no such thing as gluttony.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 18, 2011)

Oh Bill. Well, nevermind...I see where I was a bit clumsy in my words. The "grasping" nature is gluttony. 

By the way, two thumbs up on the butter, TimV. I'd never have margarine in my house or shop.


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## py3ak (Jun 18, 2011)

I think many interesting ideas have been put forward, but no one has mentioned a simple point (though Elizabeth came close) - perhaps because we don't often come across this situation in our lives: gluttony is manifested, among other ways, by eating without regard to whether others have enough. For instance, if you have two slices of pie at a church picnic, and by so doing force someone else to remain pieless, that is also gluttony. A _moderate_ use requires being able to forgo in order that others may partake: you may recall that this was part of Paul's complaint against the Corinthians, that some hungered, while others consumed to excess.


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## Elizabeth (Jun 18, 2011)

I liked CS Lewis in the Screwtape Letters, on gluttony: "But what do quantities matter, provided we can use a human belly and palate to produce querulousness, impatience, uncharitableness, and self-concern? Glubose has this old woman well in hand. ... She is always turning from what has been offered her to say with a demure little sigh and a smile "Oh, please, please ... all I want is a cup of tea, weak but not too weak, and the teeniest weeniest bit of really crisp toast."


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## VictorBravo (Jun 18, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> The worst quote of the year award!
> 
> Well then this is the worst post of the year award. According to you, there is no such thing as gluttony.



Huh? I have no idea what you are referring to. If it is Elizabeth's post above yours, I don't see her saying there is no such thing as gluttony at all.

Try using the quote function if you are going to criticize someone's comment--and maybe take a little time considering whether criticism like that is warranted.


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## TimV (Jun 18, 2011)

He's quoting me, Vic. And Bill, I gave an example of gluttony in my post. Throwing away food. A different twist, but not too different than the well pointed out twist Ruben gave. Anyway, after your dinner tonight, put an extra scoop of ice cream on  it won't increase the burden of your Karma


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 18, 2011)

Unfortunately the quote function no longer works on my computer, but I think it is a little rude to quote someone and say that it's "the worst quote of the year" A little over the top and uncharitable, don't you think?


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## TimV (Jun 18, 2011)

No, not under the circumstances. Serious? Anything over 2000 calories per day for an average man is sin?


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 18, 2011)

I never gave a caloric guideline, and I would also concede that there are other forms of gluttony than just eating too much. The real point of my post was to counter the claims of some that only fat people are gluttonous. I would disagree with that logic on several grounds. I also still think that you were being very uncharitable, and just plain wrong, in your characterization of my original post. Not only is it over the top and ridiculous, but it is not even valid as an opinion because there is no possible way that you have even read all of the posts on the PB this year. Please do not make statements like that and then act like you weren't trying to be rude or offensive. That kind of passive aggressive non-sense goes on way too much here on the PB


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 18, 2011)

I think more people have been accused of being uncharitable in this thread than any other thread I have seen.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jun 18, 2011)

I think that this is the first time I have ever accused someone of this, but then no one has ever quoted me before and said that it was the "worst quote of the year". That kind of vitriolic hyperbole has a tendency to derail threads.


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## py3ak (Jun 18, 2011)

Ecclesiastes 10:17 is a vital text for understanding gluttony, it would seem.

But please, gentlemen, let's pack it away for the night. If you'd like to fight, take it up privately on Monday. The thread is closed until then anyway.


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## kvanlaan (Jun 22, 2011)

Interesting. If we are offended by the comments on being 'fat' (I'm fat, so I can say this), I often wonder if we value our physical attributes too much (I sometimes get bent out of shape about this, but have only myself to blame). I am fat, I am not going to talk about being 'big-boned' (though I am). And all and sundry exceptions aside (ie serial pregnancies, etc.), there is an epidemic of overeating on this continent. For every hypothyroid, six pregnancies in seven years, 'fat genes' (hey, I've got 'em, and am OK with them) kinda person, there are about 99 people (like me) who simply think that everything looks good, and by golly, it is time to tuck in. This comes with consequences, and I think we're all reaping what we've sown. Remember, about 67% of all grain (which cows are simply NOT supposed to eat) goes through a cow in this country, so technically, eating beef is gluttony, because the demand for corn to fatten cattle is making life literally unbearable for many in the third world. Throw in Ethanol production, and it is a good day on which an average Ethiopian family can afford to feed themselves. Excessive demand, limited resources, and the supply and demand curve ratchets up the expense of the items in a meaningful way to most of the world. So if eating excessively so that others cannot is the definition, we're all guilty, you scrawny ones as well as fatties like me.


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## AlexanderHenderson1647 (Jun 22, 2011)

Let me offer this thought: Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit..." Though this passage isn't directed at immoderate use of food, it is the principle: control! Who controls? If it is the wine that is leading, you can't be lead by God's Spirit. Likewise with food- if it is the master, God has no place. The argument is not and cannot be, "eating more than is necessary to sustain life = gluttony." Else, there be very few or no reasons to eat certain things at all, like desserts. We don't NEED them, in the strictest sense. We could live eating only a select bit of vegetation and (depending on who you ask) the mildest bit of meat. It is not what we must eat, but how we eat what God gives, even if in abundance. Those at the wedding at Cana of Galilee didn't NEED wine, but Christ gave it and gave the best!

Consider these things-
Deuteronomy 14:25-"...then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household."
Nehemiah 8:10 "Then he said to them, “Go your way, eat the fat, drink the sweet, and send portions to those for whom nothing is prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not sorrow, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.”

I hope this proves helpful.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Jun 23, 2011)

AlexanderHenderson1647 said:


> Let me offer this thought: Ephesians 5:18 "And do not be drunk with wine, in which is dissipation; but be filled with the Spirit..." Though this passage isn't directed at immoderate use of food, it is the principle: control! Who controls? If it is the wine that is leading, you can't be lead by God's Spirit. Likewise with food- if it is the master, God has no place. The argument is not and cannot be, "eating more than is necessary to sustain life = gluttony." Else, there be very few or no reasons to eat certain things at all, like desserts. We don't NEED them, in the strictest sense. We could live eating only a select bit of vegetation and (depending on who you ask) the mildest bit of meat. It is not what we must eat, but how we eat what God gives, even if in abundance. Those at the wedding at Cana of Galilee didn't NEED wine, but Christ gave it and gave the best!
> 
> Consider these things-
> Deuteronomy 14:25-"...then you shall exchange it for money, take the money in your hand, and go to the place which the LORD your God chooses. 26 And you shall spend that money for whatever your heart desires: for oxen or sheep, for wine or similar drink, for whatever your heart desires; you shall eat there before the LORD your God, and you shall rejoice, you and your household."
> ...



This was _very_ helpful! I used to think exactly the following way: "eating more than is necessary to sustain life = gluttony." "Thank you for correction!


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## Andres (Jun 23, 2011)

kvanlaan said:


> Remember, about 67% of all grain (which cows are simply NOT supposed to eat) goes through a cow in this country, so technically, eating beef is gluttony, because the demand for corn to fatten cattle is making life literally unbearable for many in the third world.



Sorry, but eating beef is not automatically gluttony.


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## kvanlaan (Jun 23, 2011)

> Sorry, but eating beef is not automatically gluttony.



I agree, I was simply taking that idea down the rabbit trail - if we say that causing a lack for others is equated with gluttony on our part, then those are points that need to be dealt with. I love beef. Yum.


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## Andres (Jun 23, 2011)

kvanlaan said:


> > Sorry, but eating beef is not automatically gluttony.
> 
> 
> 
> I agree, I was simply taking that idea down the rabbit trail - if we say that causing a lack for others is equated with gluttony on our part, then those are points that need to be dealt with. I love beef. Yum.



Ok, yes, I see your point now and would agree with you.


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## AlexanderHenderson1647 (Jun 23, 2011)

InSlaveryToChrist said:


> AlexanderHenderson1647 said:
> 
> 
> > Let me offer this thought...
> ...



Oh, likewise brother- I once thought that way as well. Anyway, I'm glad to help!


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## TimV (Jun 23, 2011)

The "fattened calf" of the Bible is grain fed meat. Third worlders are third worlders because they're not very productive, not because we eat well. Ethanol is a good point, though, as long as one keeps in mind government interference in the market as the chief reason.


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