# How many here cut their cable and power off on the Lords day?



## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Jul 17, 2005)

?


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 17, 2005)

Not many I bet. That's the kind of legalistic application of the Sabbath ordinance that Jesus took pains to correct during his earthly ministry. The same kind of stuff Orth. Jews do today (unscrew the lightbulb in the refrigerator on Friday before sundown). 

A deed of necessity--any work (not actually able to be done in advance or postponed), the failure of which to perform will actually hinder the duties of the Sabbath, or cause material harm. The electricity must flow and fill the "grid", or these days lives could be jeaprodized, we are so dependent. Kill the power and even idle or unattended machinery or paint vats, or countless other things that must be kept "hot" will be destroyed, and with it whole companies, men's (and their families') livelihoods. In this day and time, the issue is very much akin to the ox-in-the-ditch illustration Jesus used to rebuke the Pharisees.

The electricity is now "there" on Sunday, like the light of the sun, or the motion of the waves, or the blowing breeze. How does "unplugging" your life honor God? Can you have proper hospitality withour running the stove? How is such a stringent application of the Sabbath not "straining a gnat and swallowing a camel?"

That's how I see it...


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Jul 17, 2005)

You read more into what I was saying.... individuals can survive just fine without electricity for a day if they are prepared for it. (I'm not saying I do this or believe we should either.... just throwing this topic out there.) But we don't go to restaurants on the Lords Day....why? Would shutting down the power or tv, be a similar reason?


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## Puritanhead (Jul 17, 2005)

How many people sit in the bathtub with an iMac g4 laptop on the Lord's Day?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> How many people sit in the bathtub with an iMac g4 laptop on the Lord's Day?










What kinda nut?

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by puritancovenanter]


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus_
> You read more into what I was saying.... individuals can survive just fine without electricity for a day if they are prepared for it. (I'm not saying I do this or believe we should either.... just throwing this topic out there.) But we don't go to restaurants on the Lords Day....why? Would shutting down the power or tv, be a similar reason?


Ok. Maybe I did.

What if we just decided to go without elec. on Sunday?

In certain parts of the land, in mid-winter, you would need to do everything between 5:00 pm and 8:00 am in the dark. Would you be able to dress four (or 5, 8, more?) kids and get them to church on time after the sun came up? Would you light a candle? Wouldn't that be more work than flipping a switch? Elec. heat is not uncommon. (It also means we don't have to burn all our trees up for fuel.) Would you sleep in your clothes, wear mittens to bed, and a muffler all day, just to avoid electricity? Why don't we all just "go Amish" on Sunday? Maybe we'd feel good that we suffered a little (like the R.C. who takes a cold shower every morning to put a little suffering for sin into each and every morning--a regular reminder he's got purgatory coming and he needs to keep that sinning to a minimum!)

My response is partly tongue-in-cheek, partly serious. I don't see a connection between electricity and lunch parties in restaurants. I don't advocate watching TV at all (different topic), and certainly not as Sunday fare. You gotta convince me that cutting the power is a way I can definitely please God on the Lord's Day. I'll shut up and wait.


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## Jie-Huli (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus_
> You read more into what I was saying.... individuals can survive just fine without electricity for a day if they are prepared for it. (I'm not saying I do this or believe we should either.... just throwing this topic out there.) But we don't go to restaurants on the Lords Day....why? Would shutting down the power or tv, be a similar reason?



In the case of a restaurant, your individual patronage is definitely employing other individuals in non-essential work. In the case of the power station, however, my understanding is that my individual use of electricity is not adding to the work requirements of the power station. As long as the power station must operate for necessary services (stop-lights, hospitals, etc.), our utilisation of it for our own power is not adding to anyone's employment.

As for cable, I would think it is best to keep that off on the Lord's Day at any rate.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli


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## Poimen (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> Oughn't the Church cut off her lights? If the church is large and acoustics not so well, and they haven't the voice of Spurgeon or Whitfield, shouldn't we disable power to the microphone?



Well I wouldn't be opposed to having the power turned off to the amplifiers, electric guitars etc., even if it meant I had to speak a little louder. 

Now if only there was some way to shut off those annoying drums as easily....


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## cupotea (Jul 18, 2005)

You guys really don't eat out on Sundays? But then you have to cook anyway! For me, that would be _extra_ labour!


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Jul 18, 2005)

I have been in places where I am sure the power fails over 1/7ths of the time. Why should I give them an _extra_ day of the week?


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## cupotea (Jul 18, 2005)

Ah, but that involves grocery shopping.. and staying home all day so you can actually prepare the sandwiches.. which involves dealing with the roommate... and his girlfriend... *shudder*


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## cupotea (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih_
> I have been in places where I am sure the power fails over 1/7ths of the time. Why should I give them an _extra_ day of the week?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 18, 2005)

We don't have to worry about powering the music at my church!


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## ChristianasJourney (Jul 18, 2005)

If the person chooses to do turn off their power for the "glory of God" than let him do it.

Even thought it's not something I would do, and in all honesty when I read the post I thought it was going a little bit far. However, if they choose to abide by a fast of electricty to draw closer to God and to give Him glory, than by all means, I'd encourage them to do it. After all, is there a big difference between the fasting from electricity and the fasting from food?

It's the intentions of the heart that create legalisim, but if the heart is good, the actions will be also. 

It's the heart and motives behind an action that make it legalistic.


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## SolaScriptura (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jie-Huli_
> In the case of a restaurant, your individual patronage is definitely employing other individuals in non-essential work.



Definitely?

How about my current situation - which I must thank for getting me to consider this issue further...

The Army has me on temporary orders for 73 days. Since Jun 1st I've been in Washington, DC. They have me staying at a Holiday Inn. In my room is no microwave or fridge. (Yes, it is very lame and I've made frequent complaints to my supervisor because I could have secured a much better place of lodging for a lot less money, but that's another story...) One thing I do get is free meal coupons for the resturant downstairs. So, as I'm sitting in the resturant being served I ask myself: am I sinning? Are they sinning for serving me? It isn't my choice that I can't store food in my room. It isn't my choice that I'm there at all! Yet I do get food provided to me - it is just being stored and prepared in a kitchen downstairs. The bottom line is that I don't think I'm sinning to eat and I don't think that the workers are sinning to bring it out: they're doing for me what I can't do for myself. I could take the same principle and apply it to workers in a hospital cafeteria. 
Here's the rub: I may be overly cynical here, but having interacted with workers in both the hospital cafeteria and the hotel restaurant, I can say that they are NOT viewing this as some sort of ministry. They view it as their way to make money to pay their bills. Yet the job they are performing is meeting a very real need. As I have already said, I don't think that they are sinning when they serve those who cannot serve themselves - even though they don't look at it in that way. I don't think that we can seriously say that it is ok to want to make money by taking a job as a cook at a hospital and say that that same person would be sinning if they took the exact same job at (let's just say) Applebee's or something.


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## jfschultz (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jie-Huli_
> In the case of a restaurant, your individual patronage is definitely employing other individuals in non-essential work.



I have to agree with Ben on this. For people on the road on Sunday, eating at a restaurant is a matter of necessity. I recall R.C. Sproul on a recent tape of the month referred to the days of the "blue laws" were only the restaurants associated with hotels and motels were open on Sunday for just this reason.


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## Puddleglum (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Cottonball_
> Ah, but that involves grocery shopping.. and staying home all day so you can actually prepare the sandwiches.. which involves dealing with the roommate... and his girlfriend... *shudder*



Could you spend the day with someone from your church?


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## Craig (Jul 18, 2005)

I don't turn on the t.v. or the radio (unless there is severe weather and I need info)...

I use electricity, though. Should churches shut theirs off? What about the hearing impaired that use those special hearing devices passed out at some churches?

If using electricity is breaking the sabbath, who can make it to church without using a traffic signal? Not even a pedestrian could.


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## jfschultz (Jul 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> I don't turn on the t.v. or the radio (unless there is severe weather and I need info)...
> 
> I use electricity, though. Should churches shut theirs off? What about the hearing impaired that use those special hearing devices passed out at some churches?
> ...


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 19, 2005)

The puritans also advocated the neccessity of inns (serving meals) operating on Sunday, for travellers. I personally see a major difference between that and the whole congregation heading out to Shoney's brunch buffet on the motor-mile.


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## Puritanhead (Jul 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> How many people sit in the bathtub with an iMac g4 laptop on the Lord's Day?



you know... I'm just messing with you... it's nothing personal... just a comical anecdote to a funny, peculiar picture and a peculiar question...


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## tcalbrecht (Jul 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> If using electricity is breaking the sabbath, who can make it to church without using a traffic signal? Not even a pedestrian could.



Why not just leave the car at home and walk to worship? It can be argued that the automobile has been the demise of the "local church" and promoted church shopping among God's people, and negatively impacted neighborhood evangelism. After all, I may have the "spiritual maturity" to drive 45 minutes across town to hit the local reformed church, but my unsaved or newly saved neighbor may not have that sort of spiritual fortitude. 

"Why not go to the church up the street?", he asks. 

"Oh, you don't understand. They're hyper-arminian with a touch of the charismatic. And they've been known to use some 'Purpose Driven" something or other material." 

"But they love Jesus, don't they?"

"Well, yes, perhaps, but not as much as your friends across town."

[Edited on 7-19-2005 by tcalbrecht]


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## SolaScriptura (Jul 19, 2005)

So let me get this straight. According to you folks...

If I'm trying to make a living I'm not in sin if I apply for a position at a hotel restaurant knowing that I will work on Sunday.
I am, however, if I want to make a living and I apply for THE EXACT SAME JOB at an Applebee's?

Ok..... 

[Edited on 7-19-2005 by SolaScriptura]


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Jul 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> I don't turn on the t.v. or the radio (unless there is severe weather and I need info)...
> 
> I use electricity, though. Should churches shut theirs off? What about the hearing impaired that use those special hearing devices passed out at some churches?
> ...




Traffic signals would be neccessary means of electricity, just like when doctors work on sundays.


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Jul 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> ...




That picture was taken on a saturday! I swear I swear


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Jul 19, 2005)

> "Why not go to the church up the street?", he asks.
> 
> "Oh, you don't understand. They're hyper-arminian with a touch of the charismatic. And they've been known to use some 'Purpose Driven" something or other material."
> 
> ...



Eeesh, that sounds damaging


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Jul 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> So let me get this straight. According to you folks...
> 
> If I'm trying to make a living I'm not in sin if I apply for a position at a hotel restaurant knowing that I will work on Sunday.
> ...



That is exactly what they are saying.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 19, 2005)

Why is Applebee's open on Sunday? Is it conscientiously so that the travel worn can be shown God's grace and hospitality? Or is it because there's $$ to be made. "Someone's gonna get it! May as well be me! I want in on the action." So Suzy says, "I'll work the other six days 12 hours, but Sunday I want off for church, because that's what pleases God."

What kind of answer does she get back? If she's told, NO, and she quits, will 1 Sam. 2:30 apply to her? Will God desert her? I trow not...


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## Ivan (Jul 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus_
> Traffic signals would be neccessary means of electricity, just like when doctors work on sundays.



Yeah, but should we be driving on a Sunday? If not, we wouldn't need traffic signals. J/K


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## kevin.carroll (Jul 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ABondSlaveofChristJesus_
> ?



How would I watch football???


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## kevin.carroll (Jul 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Cottonball_
> You guys really don't eat out on Sundays? But then you have to cook anyway! For me, that would be _extra_ labour!



Let us not forget the dishes!


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