# Dogs: Need Expert Recommendations for Guard/Watch Dog



## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

I am a Dog novice and having intolerances to them all my life to the effect that they trigger asthma attacks, I have not been motivated to study them.

However, that said, some things seem to be changing in regards to what I once called "allergies" (another story/topic) and I may be able to handle a dog.

I am specifically interested in a loyal guard dog. Apparently there are some dogs that are watch dogs (bark) but if you call their bluff they will be ineffective in actually backing up their threats (no bite). Then there are guard dogs that do both watch (bark) and guard (bite).

What are some recommended guard dogs for families?

Friends at church who have four youngsters have a Doberman, but I am just leery of such a breed having had bad experiences in the past with them showing erratic behavior; although their dog seems to do just fine.


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## py3ak (May 15, 2008)

I have heard that geese make excellent watch-pets.


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

py3ak said:


> I have heard that geese make excellent watch-pets.



Are you serious? 
 
I really harbor some animosity towards geese. They were all over NJ and they were mean and they had bowel movements every eight seconds.


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## toddpedlar (May 15, 2008)

I'm partial to German Shepherds & Boxers...


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## py3ak (May 15, 2008)

From _The Bestiary_

[Speaking of geese]"Another thing is that no animals notice the scent of men so well as the geese do, and for this reason the climbing of the Gauls into the Capitol was detected from their outcry."

But I have never found out if they can be housebroken.


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> I'm partial to German Shepherds & Boxers...



From Wikipedia emphasis mine:


> The character of the Boxer is of the greatest importance and demands the most solicitous attention. He is renowned from olden times for his great love and faithfulness to his master and household. *He is harmless in the family*, but distrustful of strangers, bright and friendly of temperament at play, but brave and determined when aroused. His intelligence and willing tractability, his *modesty *and *cleanliness *make him a highly desirable family dog and cheerful companion. He is the soul of honesty and loyalty, and is never false or treacherous even in his old age.
> ~ 1938 AKC Boxer breed standard



Wow, this is quite a sell! Plus it is a short-haired dog which may be a safer choice considering my asthma history. 


Thanks!


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## toddpedlar (May 15, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> > I'm partial to German Shepherds & Boxers...
> ...



I like the boxer a lot. Playful and a good defender. I think they're arguably one of the better dogs with kids, too.


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

py3ak said:


> From _The Bestiary_
> 
> [Speaking of geese]"Another thing is that no animals notice the scent of men so well as the geese do, and for this reason the climbing of the Gauls into the Capitol was detected from their outcry."
> 
> But I have never found out if they can be housebroken.





Thanks, but please note I will not be testing this and giving a report.

Additional qualification: Please recommend guard dogs that are skilled at killing geese. Thank you.


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## toddpedlar (May 15, 2008)

another thought is a mastiff or bull mastiff for a slightly smaller version. Both are well reputed as guard dogs, for sure, and also good family dogs.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 15, 2008)

Boxers are great dogs. I highly recommend them. They look and sound mean enough to fend off intruders and are quite lovable furballs in the family.


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## Kenneth_Murphy (May 15, 2008)

My favorite dogs are labradors but if I wanted a guard dog I would go the german shephard route. I figure they are smart enough to be trained well and big enough to be effective and they seem to be the prefered breed for police work.


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## larryjf (May 15, 2008)

German Shepherds...cops use them for a reason.
They are also very smart.

I would recommend that you think about the implications about getting a guard dog instead of a watch dog.

With a watch dog they let you know that it's time to get your gun and handle business.

With a guard dog you leave the lethal part up to the dog.

At my son's cub scout event last saturday one of the fathers came with his guard dog. And the dog ended up attacking a little boy and shredding his face from the upper lip to the chin in a matter of 2 seconds. The dog was on his leash when it happened...it just happened so fast that there was no time to stop it.

Personally, i would rather leave the "guarding" up to me and the "watching" up to the dog. My new theory on dogs is to make sure you get one that you are able to punt at least 10 yards if need be.


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## SueS (May 15, 2008)

I have been a fan of german shepherds since the days of "Rin-tin-tin" on tv and have had several "scrub" dogs as well as two pure-breds, one of which was almost show quality.

There are two different types of gsd's - German bred and American bred. German bred dogs are heavier built and generally larger and, although not necessarily mean, are more agressive than the American version. The American breds are of a much lighter build and the agression has been bred out of them to the point that police forces will not use them.

I've had both types - my former dog (the almost show quality dog) was German bred and was an excellent companion. She was quite reserved upon first meeting, a quality I like, but very friendly after a few minutes. She was not overtly agressive but there was no doubt that she would defend to the death any of her people who were threatened. She was that "once in a lifetime" dog.

Our current gsd is an American bred rescued from a kill shelter. She's a beautiful animal but is a bit on the dumb side (probably because she wasn't raised by us from a pup) and waaay too friendly to strangers. However, she is loving and quite nurturing (our cat "nursed" off her when she was a tiny kitten) and shows signs that, in a pinch, she would defend her people.

If you would go the gsd route be aware that they have two major shedding seasons, spring and fall, and that they shed to a lesser extent all year round - we counter that with frequent bathing and brushing, but daily vacuuming is still necessary. Make sure you go through a reputable breeder who has bred for temprament as well as conformation and who screens for potential hip dysplasia - our shelter dog shows no signs of it, thankfully. As with any dog, obedience training is a MUST. I personally would be leery of guard dog training for a family pet, but that's only my opinion. With good care and good genes a gsd can be expected to live 12-15 years with the majority of that time being active and playful.

My current dog is about 10-11 years old and starting to slow down - I hope dh lets me get another german shepherd puppy when she is gone.


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## Semper Fidelis (May 15, 2008)

I've heard that Poodles actually have hair vice fur and don't cause the same allergy problems. They're supposed to be intelligent and good guard dogs too.

Animal Planet :: Guides :: Dog Breed Selector

Animal Planet :: Dog Breed Profile :: Poodle (Standard)


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## Reformed Covenanter (May 15, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard that geese make excellent watch-pets.
> ...



Geese or swans are effective in restraing an intruder. Either of these can easily break a human being's arm.


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## SueS (May 15, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> I've heard that Poodles actually have hair vice fur and don't cause the same allergy problems. They're supposed to be intelligent and good guard dogs too.





Yeah, a toy poodle is just the thing for biting an intruder's toes off!!


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## py3ak (May 15, 2008)

The stupidest dog I've ever known was a German Shepherd. Consider this romance novel he wrote.


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## Reformed Covenanter (May 15, 2008)

py3ak said:


> The stupidest dog I've ever known was a German Shepherd. Consider this romance novel he wrote.



My uncle has a german shepherd who is the worst guard dog you could ever want.


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

I have not seen a Poodle on any guard dog lists. The dogs recommended for people with allergies are all wimpy dogs: Chihuahua, Poodle, Bichon Frise, Shitz zu, Greyhounds.

I am really liking what I am reading about the Boxer. The German Shepherd is a bit large and the coat may be too extreme to maintain if there is sensitivity.


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

Kenneth_Murphy said:


> I figure they are smart enough to be trained well and big enough to be effective and they seem to be the prefered breed for police work.



Apparently Boxers are too:



> They [Boxers] are widely used in search and rescue, police work, and military work.


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## JBaldwin (May 15, 2008)

larryjf said:


> German Shepherds...cops use them for a reason.
> They are also very smart.
> 
> I would recommend that you think about the implications about getting a guard dog instead of a watch dog.
> ...



I would agree, heartily. Over the years, I have heard and witnessed horror stories about nearly every kind of guard dog. What I have found with trained guard dogs is when they get confused or frustrated, the instinctive "attack" mode kicks in, and they turn on whomever is closest, even if it's a family member. 

I would recommend a dog that barks a lot but loves the family. We keep a labrabor and a Swiss Mountain Dog/Golden Retriever mix. These dogs are the best watch dogs I've owned. They give us plenty of warning, scare a lot of would be problems away (the Swiss Mountain Dog is HUGE and has a fearsome bark) but cuddle up the family like big babies. 

Having said that, labradors are not always the best watch dogs. Ours just happens to be, because he does whatever our Swiss Mountain Dog does. 

I have never kept a boxer, but I have heard they are good. However, I do know of one incident where a Boxer bit (and left a good scar) one of the children in the family who had him. I don't know if that was an unusual situation. 

We've kept poodles, they are great if you have allergies, but they aren't always good watch dogs. 

MY


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
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While I have no reason to not believe you, I wonder at how this is possible. I have been tempted to kick several of them when they would hiss at me on the jogging trail or while I was walking to my car from the train station.


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## Semper Fidelis (May 15, 2008)

SueS said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > I've heard that Poodles actually have hair vice fur and don't cause the same allergy problems. They're supposed to be intelligent and good guard dogs too.
> ...


I didn't link to a toy poodle. I linked to a Standard Poodle.


ChristopherPaul said:


> I have not seen a Poodle on any guard dog lists. The dogs recommended for people with allergies are all wimpy dogs: Chihuahua, Poodle, Bichon Frise, Shitz zu, Greyhounds.
> 
> I am really liking what I am reading about the Boxer. The German Shepherd is a bit large and the coat may be too extreme to maintain if there is sensitivity.



Did you read the link?


> *History*
> 
> Although the poodle is most often identified with France, its earliest ancestors were probably curly-coated dogs from central Asia that assisted with herding and followed many routes into various parts of Europe. Interwoven in their ancestry are also several rough-coated water dogs. Perhaps the earliest incarnation of the poodle was the barbet, a curly-coated dog distributed in France, Russia, Hungary and elsewhere. It is the German version, however, that exerted most influence on the modern poodle. In fact, the word poodle comes from the German word pfudel, meaning "puddle" or "to splash," probably reflecting the dog's water abilities. In France, it was known as caniche or chien canard, both referring to its duck-hunting abilities. *Thus, from herding and water roots the poodle became a talented water-hunting companion. The poodle was also drawn into service as a military dog, guide dog, guard dog, wagon puller for performers and, eventually, as a circus performer.* Its coat was shorn close to facilitate swimming, but left slightly longer on the chest for warmth in cold water. Although some believe the puffs of hair around the leg joints and tail tip were for protection when hunting, compelling evidence suggests that they arose as decoration during the poodle's performing days. The poodle found favor as an elegant companion for fashionable ladies. It became favored by French aristocracy and eventually became the national dog of France. Its characteristic clip was accentuated, and a successful effort was made to perfect the smaller specimens. Poodles entered the show ring in the late 1800s. Some of the early show poodles were shown in corded coats, in which the hair is allowed to mat in long thin tresses rather than be brushed out. While eye-catching, the upkeep was difficult and the trend died out by the early 1900s, being replaced by the bouffant styles still in vogue. At the same time poodle popularity in America waned, so that by the late 1920s, poodles had almost


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## Reformed Covenanter (May 15, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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> > ChristopherPaul said:
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They have very powerful necks. Don't even think about it.


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

Ultimately what sparked my interest in specifically a guard dog is that my children like to play in the woods immediately behind my house. While we can see and hear them from the house and back deck there is a risk. I was in the woods with my family the one day and a dog came on the other side of the creek barking at us. Now granted the tail was wagging and it may have been friendly but you never know. It was frantically trying to find a path through the brush to get to us but was unsuccessful. It made me think when if the kids were at there one play spot where the dog could have got to them. Like someone said it only takes two seconds. It would be nice to have a family pet that could provide some form of determent.

Also, I am unarmed. If an intruder broke into my house I would possibly have no way of knowing and be defenseless in protecting my family. I have been considering options and this would be just one step in additional security for my household. 

I just so happen to live in one of the safest cities in the country (Cary), but I feel it is wise nonetheless to be prepared to protect the family.



JBaldwin said:


> larryjf said:
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> 
> > German Shepherds...cops use them for a reason.
> ...


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## ChristopherPaul (May 15, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
> 
> 
> > I have not seen a Poodle on any guard dog lists. The dogs recommended for people with allergies are all wimpy dogs: Chihuahua, Poodle, Bichon Frise, Shitz zu, Greyhounds.
> ...



Although I did open the links to look at, I did not read right away because I never considered a Poodle as a viable choice. I know they are yappers, but I thought you were confusing their watch dog capabilities with guard capabilities (which many do). It is surprising to me that they would be used in guard situations.


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## JM (May 15, 2008)

American Bulldog. Short hair, different weights and sizes, friendly with children, they do well in French Ring, they are naturally protective of their owners, etc.


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## Answerman (May 15, 2008)

What, no one has mentioned Rottweiler’s? I don't really know any reason other than they are big and strong.


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## Semper Fidelis (May 15, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
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I don't know if you've seen a Standard Poodle before but they are pretty big dogs. You might have been thinking of the toy or the miniature poodle.


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## jwithnell (May 15, 2008)

A couple of things to consider: first, you could run into serious liability and homeowners' insurance issues with some of the guard dog species as well as local ordinance (or homeowners' association bylaws) forbidding certain breeds such as pit bulls, Dobermans, and rottweilers (sp?).

Whatever dog you choose, considering its breeding carefully -- it will cost more, but you won't face unpredictable personality issues or the heartbreak of having to put a dog down because of genetic problems (like a dog crippled from genetic hip problems). Reputable breeders will let you meet both the ***** and the dam and should give you the dog's lineage so you know it's not inbred. Some will be willing to let you have a dog that's a little less expensive if the puppy doesn't meet show standards, but has no real problems.

Do some reading up on dog training before the dog comes home. Knowing how to make sure that the dog knows that _you_ are the leader of the pack is something you will have to establish from the get-go and is especially crucial in larger dogs.

This into is coming from a fan of Irish setters, so take it for what it's worth!


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## toddpedlar (May 15, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
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Well, if he's going to go the bird route, he needs to get an ostrich!


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## SueS (May 15, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> SueS said:
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Sorry, Rich - I was just being smart. Actually, I rather like standard poodles - they are the only type that can really be classified as a "dog" - I can't stand yappy little fur balls!


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## christiana (May 15, 2008)

My little dog is perfect as a guard dog for me! He definitely would never injure anyone but he tells me much about whats going on outdoors and whether anyone is nearby. He is a West Highland White Terrier and I'm sure he couldnt be classed as a serious guard dog but he surely does his job well and is such a great companior and loves kids!
He isnt always truthful as he occasionally calls me to the door and no one is there! LOL I keep trying to reinforce his job description as I live alone and have a hearing loss but he just seems extra sensitive and wants to be sure I know all that occurs! He is an indoor dog and is always quiet unless summoning me to the door!!


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## caddy (May 15, 2008)

toddpedlar said:


> I'm partial to German Shepherds & Boxers...


 
German Shepherds! Had them growing up. Good watch dogs. 

Our cousins had Boxers. Also good watch dogs.


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## larryjf (May 15, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Ultimately what sparked my interest in specifically a guard dog is that my children like to play in the woods immediately behind my house. While we can see and hear them from the house and back deck there is a risk. I was in the woods with my family the one day and a dog came on the other side of the creek barking at us. Now granted the tail was wagging and it may have been friendly but you never know. It was frantically trying to find a path through the brush to get to us but was unsuccessful. It made me think when if the kids were at there one play spot where the dog could have got to them. Like someone said it only takes two seconds. It would be nice to have a family pet that could provide some form of determent.
> 
> Also, I am unarmed. If an intruder broke into my house I would possibly have no way of knowing and be defenseless in protecting my family. I have been considering options and this would be just one step in additional security for my household.
> 
> I just so happen to live in one of the safest cities in the country (Cary), but I feel it is wise nonetheless to be prepared to protect the family.



Since you seem to be planning to get a dog that would be basically alone with the children if when they are in the woods, I would say you also have to get a breed that's known to be good with kids...

German Shepherd

Great Pyrenees






Rhodesian Ridgeback (able to keep a lion at bay) (good for beginner dog owners)





Mastiff

However, since "guard" dogs are trained to hurt people, and since they react to quick movements, you do run the risk of your children getting hurt by the dog as children are known for the quick movements, and for even stepping on a dog's tail and whatnot.

If you get the dog, it might be a good idea to have the kids involved with the training. That way the dog will hopefully recognize that the kids are above them in the pack. Problems can occur if your dog thinks it has to climb up the pack ladder by making the kids submissive to it.


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## Zenas (May 15, 2008)

ChristopherPaul said:


> py3ak said:
> 
> 
> > I have heard that geese make excellent watch-pets.
> ...



Geese are loud, territorial, and will back up their threats. They are some mean animals.


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## Zenas (May 15, 2008)

I recommend the Great Pyrenees. 

They are loyal unto death because they are traditionally shepherd dogs. As I understand it, they will recognize your children, both present and future, as yours to be objects of their protection and affection. They originate in the French Pyrenees mountains, obviously, and their size and strength was favored because they were able to fight off a fully grown bear while the shepherd moved the sheep to safety. French nobility favored them for a time and they were used as guard/watch dogs for French chateaus. 

They are generally very affectionate and happy dogs. I have met two and they were wonderful. They are quite intimidating though, some of the largest dogs I have ever seen. This is the type of dog I will get next. 

As someone else suggested, the Rhodesian Ridgeback was bred in Africa to hunt and kill lions. A couple who attend our church have one that protects their two small girls. I havn't heard anything negative about them at all. They look killer too. 

There's always a wolf-hybrid, but since you have no experience with dogs, you DO NOT need to get one of these. You have to constantly assert dominance to maintain control and they will be hostile to anyone they do not view to be a part of the pack. They also have a problem being fear biters. These are for advanced dog owners only, but they look SO COOL. I was around one only one time and it was extremely frightening, and I am perfectly at home around dogs. 

The Bernese Mountain Dog is a dog similar to the Pyrenees (one is the descendant of the other I believe). They are not white dogs though, but rather black, brown, and white. They have a similar disposition as the Pyrenees, although I think they are slightly smaller. 

The German Shepherd, American White Shepherd, Belgian Malinois (spelled it wrong, I know). These are all basically different versions of the same dog. The American White Shepherd was a German Shepherd until recently. They branched off and they are essentially the same, except pure white. Both these and the Germans are very obedient, when properly trained, and extremely aggressive when needed. The Belgians are a bit more hard-headed and independent, but still make a very good guard dog. They look a bit different than the German Shepherd as they appear to have a brindle coat color, as opposed to the black and brown splotches on the German Shepherd. All are used as police attack and drug dogs. 

I have to plug these although it's porbably not what you want. I have a wire-haired fox terrier. He will not be killing any intruders, but he is an excellent watch dog and, if not for his size, an excellent guard dog. He will back up his bite, but he only weighs 20 pounds. He has never been aggressive toward any person, but he has never been given a reason to. He has jumped a fully grown Doberman though. The Doberman was scared to death of him. They really are little balls of terror when they want to be. They fear no person or thing. They were originally bred to follow foxes into their holes, kill them (in thier home where they are most fierce) and drag them out. Tough little guys. Very friendly and loving. They will bark at anyone approaching your home, or even cars driving past. No one comes around us without us knowing about it. (We have 2 others including mine.)


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## caddy (May 15, 2008)

larryjf said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
> 
> 
> > Ultimately what sparked my interest in specifically a guard dog is that my children like to play in the woods immediately behind my house. While we can see and hear them from the house and back deck there is a risk. I was in the woods with my family the one day and a dog came on the other side of the creek barking at us. Now granted the tail was wagging and it may have been friendly but you never know. It was frantically trying to find a path through the brush to get to us but was unsuccessful. It made me think when if the kids were at there one play spot where the dog could have got to them. Like someone said it only takes two seconds. It would be nice to have a family pet that could provide some form of determent.
> ...


 
This is a beautiful Dog--the Great Pyrenees! Gorgeous lines, smiling face. Alas, too big for the inside of my house. We have Shiz Tzus--2 of them.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 15, 2008)




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## caddy (May 15, 2008)

joshua said:


> I like Smith & Wessons. They don't shed. They're definitely house trained, and they don't tear things up without your approval.


 
Amen! My Walther's house trained as wekk,,,


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