# The most neglected chapter in the Confession?



## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

What would you say is the most neglected chapter in the Confession and why? I'm open to doctrinal neglect from a teaching aspect. Least understood. Least practiced. What are the consequences of the neglect? Do we see over-reactions or other doctrines get off balance to make up for it? 

I'm not talking about abused doctrines such as justification in the current day. Thinking of not on the radar...

I have my opinion...

You first.

Here's a cheat sheet:

Chapter I Of the Holy Scripture 
Chapter II Of God, and of the Holy Trinity 
Chapter III Of God's Eternal Decree 
Chapter IV Of Creation 
Chapter V Of Providence 
Chapter VI Of the Fall of Man, of Sin, and the Punishment thereof 
Chapter VII Of God's Covenant with Man 
Chapter VIII Of Christ the Mediator 
Chapter IX Of Free Will 
Chapter X Of Effectual Calling 
Chapter XI Of Justification 
Chapter XII Of Adoption 
Chapter XIII Of Sanctification 
Chapter XIV Of Saving Faith 
Chapter XV Of Repentance unto Life 
Chapter XVI Of Good Works 
Chapter XVII Of the Perseverance Of the Saints 
Chapter XVIII Of Assurance Of Grace and Salvation 
Chapter XIX Of the Law Of God 
Chapter XX Of Christian Liberty, and Liberty Of Conscience 
Chapter XXI Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath DayÃ¥ 
Chapter XXII Of Lawful Oaths and Vows 
Chapter XXIII Of the Civil Magistrate 
Chapter XXIV Of Marriage and Divorce 
Chapter XXV Of the Church 
Chapter XXVI Of the Communion Of Saints 
Chapter XXVII Of the Sacraments 
Chapter XXVIII Of Baptism 
Chapter XXIX Of the Lord's Supper 
Chapter XXX Of Church Censures 
Chapter XXXI Of Synods and Councils 
Chapter XXXII Of the State Of Men after Death, and Of the Resurrection Of the Dead 
Chapter XXXIII Of the Last Judgment

[Edited on 8-29-2006 by crhoades]


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## Puritanhead (Aug 29, 2006)

Well, it sure isn't _Chapter XXVIII Of Baptism_ with you Presbyterians, as a matter of fact, judging by all the threads, I might go so far as to say you dwell on "infant baptism." Speaking of which the London Baptist Confession has chapter that deals with eating food, specifically Chapter 27. 

Mmmmmmmmmm..... FOOD!!! Baptists like FOOD!


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## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

Ryan

Even though you killed it (and the funny Homer pic)(not applicable - you didn't kill it...I jumped the gun between posts)

- I agree we  baptism. 

What would you say is the most neglected chapter though?

[Edited on 8-29-2006 by crhoades]


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## Puritanhead (Aug 29, 2006)

I'm still thinking about that.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 29, 2006)

When you say neglect, I can think of several topics, but isn't the nature of the neglect magnified more so for topics of greater relevance and importance to the church today?


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## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> When you say neglect, I can think of several topics, but isn't the nature of the neglect magnified more so for topics of greater relevance and importance to the church today?



This is a subjective question and will be met with subjective answers. It is a tool for reflection. A person can reflect on what they see in the reformed world at large or if they like, in their own church or even their own studies or life. The real question is why and what is the result.

Take a shot. Take a shot-gun blast at a few and offer hypotheses.


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## MW (Aug 29, 2006)

Chapter I Of the Holy Scripture.

Natural revelation. "Immediate" inspiration. "Sufficiency" of Scripture. Providential preservation "in all ages." Translations are the word of God. Perspicuity of Scripture. Scripture interprets Scripture. Testimony of the Spirit.

Modern scholarship, in its attempt to maintain a hegemony over God's people, undermine these basic principles, and make faith to depend upon human testimony.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 29, 2006)

Chapter XXII Of Lawful Oaths and Vows 

Just a "shot"....

I am not certain at all.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 29, 2006)

Let me use my powers of clairvoyance to ascertain Chris' answer


> Chapter XIX Of the Law Of God


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## jaybird0827 (Aug 29, 2006)

Neglected in practice ...

*XXI Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day*

As far as the root cause, I agree with Rev. Winzer - negligence of Chapter I of the Confession.



> _Originally posted by armourbearer_
> Chapter I Of the Holy Scripture.
> 
> Natural revelation. "Immediate" inspiration. "Sufficiency" of Scripture. Providential preservation "in all ages." Translations are the word of God. Perspicuity of Scripture. Scripture interprets Scripture. Testimony of the Spirit.
> ...


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## BJClark (Aug 29, 2006)

crhoades,

Looking at the list, I'd have to say I haven't heard much taught on the Synods and Councils, but then I also know more churches fail in teaching the Church Censures and their purposes.

I know of only a couple of churches that have addressed this issue and actually followed through in excommunicting some members for unrepentant sin. Our church recently excommunicated some 12 members for adultery, it was a VERY sad church meeting. I took my kids so that they would know what was going on and why.

I think one the biggest consequences of that is the divorce rate in our churches and society as a whole.

I also believe one of the other consequences are so many 'feel good' 'tickle your ear' sermons of a loving God and about a forgiving God. 

Not that God isn't loving or forgiving, but I think it goes overboard where people don't see just how much God HATES sin, and that He will not forgive unrepentant sin.





> What would you say is the most neglected chapter in the Confession and why? I'm open to doctrinal neglect from a teaching aspect. Least understood. Least practiced. What are the consequences of the neglect? Do we see over-reactions or other doctrines get off balance to make up for it?
> 
> I'm not talking about abused doctrines such as justification in the current day. Thinking of not on the radar...
> 
> ...



[Edited on 8-29-2006 by BJClark]


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## Semper Fidelis (Aug 29, 2006)

Chapter XX Of Christian Liberty, and Liberty Of Conscience

I think it is oft abused because Liberty requires wisdom in how to exercise it to God's glory and how to recognize a personal conviction as personal and not binding upon others.


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## NaphtaliPress (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> Neglected in practice ...
> 
> *XXI Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day*
> ...


However, I wonder if the title of this thread should be most neglected/rejected?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 29, 2006)

Hard to say. I think that Chapters I, XX and XXI are all good contenders for this title. 

A misapprehension of basic Scriptural principles is certainly the foundation of many errors in our day. 

Christian liberty is certainly under attack, notably here on the Puritan Board at the present time. 

Church censures is another chapter that highlights the failings of the modern Reformed church. The pendulum often swings between discipline that is too lax or too tyrannical.

Few Presbyterian churches today actually adhere to the Regulative Principle of Worship articulated in the Confession. Many, on the contrary, affirm the Confession and then in doctrine and practice redefine what it says to allow for numerous practices that are not commanded in the Christian era. And the Sabbath Day is not kept or even properly taught in much of the Reformed Church.

I would also note that whereas there is a dishonesty in the approach taken by many Reformed churches towards the Confession's chapter on worship by denying its teaching _de facto_ rather than _de jure_, the Church at large has perhaps more honestly but still lamentably chosen to amend the Confession in many places, particularly with respect to the relationship between Church and State. 

But I think in terms of the most _neglected_ chapter of the Confession, in terms of both teaching and practice, I would lean towards BJ's suggestion of the chapter on Synods and Councils, with particular reference to the civil magistate's authority to invoke them. 

Voluntaryism (denial of the Establishment Principle) and the vast multiplication of denominations that ensued has impacted our society so much that this chapter has become a moot or quaint historical point with little relevance to most Reformed Christians today. It too was amended by the American Presbyterian Church which simply eliminated an entire paragraph to remove the offending Biblical teaching that civil magistrates have a duty _circa sacra_.

This, despite the fact that we would not have a Westminster Confession of Faith without the calling of the Assembly by Parliament.

[Edited on 8-29-2006 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> This, despite the fact that we would not have a Westminster Confession of Faith without the calling of the Assembly by Parliament.



Or Dordt.


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## CDM (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Hard to say. I think that Chapters I, XX and XXI are all good contenders for this title.
> 
> A misapprehension of basic Scriptural principles is certainly the foundation of many errors in our day.
> ...


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## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> Let me use my powers of clairvoyance to ascertain Chris' answer
> 
> 
> > Chapter XIX Of the Law Of God



Go back to clairvoyance school. Of course I think that there can be a greater recovery and teaching/preaching of the law in relation to the gospel and the Christian life and the civil life...check my signature to verify! 

But I don't think it is totally neglected on the whole in reformed congregations. Some churches will be more balanced than others, but I wouldn't put it as my top pick.


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## SRoper (Aug 29, 2006)

I'd say Chapter XXII: Of Lawful Oaths and Vows. I also considered XX, XXI, and XXXI.


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## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SRoper_
> I'd say Chapter XXII: Of Lawful Oaths and Vows. I also considered XX, XXI, and XXXI.



I agree with you and Adam. What's your thinking on this one?


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## py3ak (Aug 29, 2006)

I would actually say chapter XII, of Adoption. Of course, everyone is going to emphasize what is true in their background; and the neglect of something is going to be seen in connection with its perceived importance. So with that caveat, that this is my experience and my experience mediated through my priorities, I vote XII. I have never heard a sermon about this: the only treatment I have read is in Lloyd-Jones and John Murray's _Redemption Accomplished and Applied_. I asked for book/article recommendations some time ago, and as far as I remember all I got was Packer's _Knowing God_. And yet Galatians seems to highlight it as a point of vast importance.



> All those that are justified, God vouchsafeth, in and for His only Son Jesus Christ, to make partakers of the grace of adoption,{a} by which they are taken into the number, and enjoy the liberties and privileges of the children of God,{b} have His name put upon them,{c} receive the spirit of adoption,{d} have access to the throne of grace with boldness,{e} are enabled to cry, Abba, Father,{f} are pitied,{g} protected,{h} provided for,{i} and chastened by Him as by a Father:{j} yet never cast off,{k} but sealed to the day of redemption;{l} and inherit the promises,{m} as heirs of everlasting salvation.{n}
> a. ï»¿Eph. 1:5ï»¿; ï»¿Gal. 4:4"“5ï»¿.
> b. ï»¿Rom. 8:17ï»¿; ï»¿John 1:12ï»¿.
> c. ï»¿Jer. 14:9ï»¿; ï»¿2 Cor. 6:18ï»¿; ï»¿Rev. 3:12ï»¿.
> ...



[Edited on 8-29-2006 by py3ak]


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## BJClark (Aug 29, 2006)

crhoades,

For me, this would also go back to why so many marriages are ending in divorce. Churches aren't teaching the seriousness of making an Oath or Vow.

Something else I see where this would come into play is when parents bring their children before the covenant members, and the congregation promises to help the parents train the children up in the Lord. 

And when it comes to seeing a child back talk or act unruly and the parents discipline the children and the children continue, others don't speak up and tell the child to listen to their parents, out of fear of 'overstepping our bounds''. when it comes to other peoples children.





> SRoper[/i]
> I'd say Chapter XXII: Of Lawful Oaths and Vows.
> 
> I agree with you and Adam. What's your thinking on this one?



[Edited on 8-29-2006 by BJClark]

[Edited on 8-29-2006 by BJClark]


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## fredtgreco (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by py3ak_
> I would actually say chapter XII, of Adoption. Of course, everyone is going to emphasize what is true in their background; and the neglect of something is going to be seen in connection with its perceived importance. So with that caveat, that this is my experience and my experience mediated through my priorities, I vote XII. I have never heard a sermon about this: the only treatment I have read is in Lloyd-Jones and John Murray's _Redemption Accomplished and Applied_. I asked for book/article recommendations some time ago, and as far as I remember all I got was Packer's _Knowing God_. And yet Galatians seems to highlight it as a point of vast importance.
> 
> 
> ...



This is a good point, and is part of the reason (in my opinion) for the flawed views of the Federal Vision advocates. I have a friend who is seeking to do doctoral work on Calvin's treatment of the doctrine of adoption, something that I believe would be a great boon for the Church.


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## fredtgreco (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BJClark_
> crhoades,
> 
> For me, this would also go back to why so many marriages are ending in divorce. Churches aren't teaching the seriousness of making an Oath or Vow.
> ...


 [/quote]

Let us not forget the taking of church membership vows. I had the pleasure this past month of reminding a young lady as she became a communicant member that her membership vows were incredibly important, and were in fact the first vows she took and the next set would like occur as she was in a white bridal gown.


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## JonathanHunt (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> Neglected in practice ...
> 
> *XXI Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath Day*



I would have gone for this one as well.

J


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## BJClark (Aug 29, 2006)

fredtgreco,



> Let us not forget the taking of church membership vows. I had the pleasure this past month of reminding a young lady as she became a communicant member that her membership vows were incredibly important, and were in fact the first vows she took and the next set would like occur as she was in a white bridal gown.



You know when I took Church membership vows first before the Session, and then again before the Congregation, I felt a great sense of security and peace in my walk, knowing there are people who love and care for me enough who are willing to hold me accountable.

People who are willing to walk along side me and say "I see you struggling in this area, how can we help?" And at the same time who are willing to come to me and say "Hey, you know I see your heading in the wrong direction here, this is what God has to say about this..."


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## fredtgreco (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BJClark_
> fredtgreco,
> 
> 
> ...



Amen.

_Give ear, O Shepherd of Israel, you who lead Joseph like a flock! You who are enthroned upon the cherubim, shine forth. 2 Before Ephraim and Benjamin and Manasseh, stir up your might and come to save us! 3 Restore us, O God; let your face shine, that we may be saved! _(Psalm 80:1-3)


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## Answerman (Aug 29, 2006)

Which one would the training of a Godly seed fall under? (Referenceeut 6:4-9) The Law of God? or a combination thereof?

Anyway this is what I find most neglected.


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## crhoades (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BJClark_
> ...



To echo everything said before (membership vows, marriage vows, baptismal vows of parents and members) I would also add a ministers ordination vows to the confession (subscription) etc. We also neglect to rightfully think about the oath for office of the civil magistrate but of course that brings up what Andrew was saying on the chapter on the civil magistrate but I digress.

The Oaths and Vows has much to do with family, church, and state and in these days we are not seeing much faithfulness in any of the three. People marriage hop, church hop, and the STATE?

I also would tag religious worship and sabbath, the law, the magistrate, scripture and even repentance and good works as other chapters needing more emphasis but I can honestly say that outside of the covenanters I can't think of anything that I've seen written or taught on the topics. Some may argue on the matter of importance but out of sheer neglect this was the topic I was fishing for to see if others agreed.

Let's keep discussing. On any of the doctrines that have been neglected on anyone's eyes, what are the practical out-workings in the churches and individual's lives?


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## JonathanHunt (Aug 29, 2006)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> 
> Let's keep discussing. On any of the doctrines that have been neglected on anyone's eyes, what are the practical out-workings in the churches and individual's lives?



One service only every Lord's Day, or, a terrible attendance at the second service because everyone is too busy serving themselves rather than serving the Lord!


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 29, 2006)

I wasn't thinking of it all that much

I simply looked at the list and tried to determine what I have seen discussed the LEAST. That won hands down.


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## BJClark (Aug 29, 2006)

crhoades,

Our pastor just did a 12 week Sunday School Class on Marriage Coventants. My husband and I didn't go to the class, but I got copies of the cd's and copies of the notes he used and we are 
doing it at home. We are setting an hour a side each night to go 
over the study.

But back to the topic of what other things do we see happening because of failing to teach these things...More and more People not paying their debts and filing bankruptcy.



[Edited on 8-30-2006 by BJClark]


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