# Thoughts on the Evangelical Presbyterian Church ?



## BlackCalvinist (Mar 31, 2005)

Interesting bunch. Open to charismatic practice, open to the ordination of women, claiming to hold to the WCF.

what say ye ?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Mar 31, 2005)




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## JonathanHunt (Mar 31, 2005)

Funny how terms differ over the pond. The Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales (EPCEW) which has a growing number of congregations, is nothing like the Evangelical Presbyterian you refer to, Kerry.

If I was a Presbyterian, I would join the EPCEW - indeed, if there were no reformed baptist churches in a town I would probably go to a local EPCEW.

JH


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## Me Died Blue (Mar 31, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_



 I would, however, attend one if there were no other Presbyterian or Reformed churches anywhere close (excluding PCUSA and Cumberland).


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## kevin.carroll (Mar 31, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> Interesting bunch. Open to charismatic practice, open to the ordination of women, claiming to hold to the WCF.
> 
> what say ye ?



 I've got a good friend who is in the EPC. We've talked about the women ordination thing. He tells me it is left up to individual presbyteries to decide and he happens to be in a coservative one. Nevertheless, I believe the EPC is on the proverbial slippery slope as a denomination.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 31, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kevin.carroll_
> I've got a good friend who is in the EPC. We've talked about the women ordination thing. He tells me it is left up to individual presbyteries to decide and he happens to be in a coservative one. Nevertheless, I believe the EPC is on the proverbial slippery slope as a denomination.



True... the ordination of women is left up to the individual presbyteries. 

In my interactions with many EPC folks (I met many who attended TEDS) they are MUCH more evangelical than reformed, and I think their nonchalant attitude towards the ordination of women (i.e., "whatever, man! We let each presbytery decide... it's all good!") testifies to the lack of conviction that plagues many evangelical churches/denominations.

Jsut so you know, they have a formal agreement with Denver Seminary - a Baptist school in which many of the professors (including virtually all of the "famous" ones) are egalitarian... Hmmm. A presbyterian denomination with a formal agreement with a baptist school with strong affinity towards an egalitarian position. Hmmm....


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 2, 2005)

Wow, Ben. I didn't know that.


*crosses them off my list of churches to visit*






I was at their website looking at some of their 'position' papers. They seem to fall in line with scripture on a lot of 'culture issues', though. But I may have to agree with you on them being on a slippery slope.


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## fredtgreco (Apr 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> Wow, Ben. I didn't know that.
> 
> 
> ...



Part of the problem with the denominational landscape is that there are virtually no truly Presbyterian Churches (i.e. with any degree of uniformity).

So what does that mean? I would worship at the EPC home church of my friend (and Kevin's) before I would many PCA churches. That particular EPC church is Reformed, staunchly anti-ordination of women, and has a good minister.


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## Me Died Blue (Apr 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> I would worship at the EPC home church of my friend (and Kevin's) before I would many PCA churches. That particular EPC church is Reformed, staunchly anti-ordination of women, and has a good minister.



That makes you wonder why such a church would remain in a denomination that partially allows female ordination (and charismatic revelation). I mean, it seems like one of the initial steps to take toward Reformed unity would be for all such churches (i.e. those with true Reformed convictions) to go to denominations that at least _formally_ uphold their convictions - but the EPC doesn't even do that.

[Edited on 4-3-2005 by Me Died Blue]


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## kevin.carroll (Apr 2, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by OS_X_
> ...



Thank you Fred. For the record, we aren't EPC. We aren't...well...*anything* for that matter. But let's not pour salt in that particular wound. Long story. Doesn't involve me. 

On a happier note, the Session is moving back towards bringing us back into the fold...Ah, the joys of gentle leadership and a shut mouth. :bigsmile:


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## fredtgreco (Apr 2, 2005)

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

I mean my friend and _Kevin's friend_. Not the EPC church and _Kevin's church_.

You would think a lawyer could write clearly.


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## lwadkins (Apr 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kevin.carroll_
> 
> I've got a good friend who is in the EPC. We've talked about the women ordination thing. He tells me it is left up to individual presbyteries to decide and he happens to be in a coservative one. Nevertheless, I believe the EPC is on the proverbial slippery slope as a denomination.



Speaking of slippery slopes and egalitarianism. I would predict that it is only a matter of time before the egalitarian veiw is imposed on those who do not accept it now.


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 3, 2005)

That's usually the direction things head toward with egals, Lon. 

I wonder what percentage of churches are 'women-ordination' friendly in the EPC ?


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## kevin.carroll (Apr 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> Sorry, I wasn't clear.
> 
> I mean my friend and _Kevin's friend_. Not the EPC church and _Kevin's church_.
> ...



Neither was I. And here I thought you were paying me a compliment...See now I'm insulted since you never said you would worship with us.


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## yeutter (Apr 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JonathanHunt_
> Funny how terms differ over the pond. The Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales (EPCEW) which has a growing number of congregations, is nothing like the Evangelical Presbyterian you refer to, Kerry.
> 
> If I was a Presbyterian, I would join the EPCEW - indeed, if there were no reformed baptist churches in a town I would probably go to a local EPCEW.
> ...



The Evangelical Presbyterian Church here in the States is indeed not at all like the body with the smae name in Wales. When I lived in Howell, MI I attended a local Lutheran Church [Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod] rather then attend the so called Evangelical Presbyterian body.


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## AdamM (Apr 4, 2005)

> Part of the problem with the denominational landscape is that there are virtually no truly Presbyterian Churches (i.e. with any degree of uniformity).
> 
> So what does that mean? I would worship at the EPC home church of my friend (and Kevin's) before I would many PCA churches. That particular EPC church is Reformed, staunchly anti-ordination of women, and has a good minister.



I agree with Fred.

Especially with the EPC you need to look at the individual church and avoid broad generalizations. (As Fred notes, isn't that also true with the PCA & OPC?)


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