# Pre-Wrath



## Curt (Mar 4, 2009)

Has anybody heard of the Pre-Wrath view? I never heard of it until this morning. Does anybody now anything about it?


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## uberkermit (Mar 4, 2009)

As in Marvin Rosenthal Pre-Wrath?


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## Curt (Mar 4, 2009)

uberkermit said:


> As in Marvin Rosenthal Pre-Wrath?



Yes, I believe so.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Mar 4, 2009)

Yes, as in Marvin Rosenthal's Pre-Wrath Rapture. Whether Pre-Trib, Mid-Trib, or Pre-Wrath, they are all intramural differences in Dispensationalism with regard to the timing of the "secret Rapture" within the Seven Years of Tribulation prior to Christ's "official" second Coming.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 4, 2009)

I used to be pre-wrath back when I was pre-mil. It is not quite a mid trib position. They believe that God will rapture the believers out sometime during the tribulation but before he sends His own wrath upon the world.

Robert Van Kampen was the guy who popularized this position.

They believe that THE Anti-Christ will establish a covenant with Israel that will start a 7 year period. For the first half (3.5 years) everything will be peace. Half way in he will announce himself and bring tribulation on the world. Sometime before the last 3.5 years are up, God will send his wrath against the antichrist. Before God does this, he will take the church out of the world.

I really liked this approach because it solved a bunch of puzzles. The one problem it doesn't overcome is that it is futurism and I can't find it in the Bible.


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## MrMerlin777 (Mar 4, 2009)

Sounds sort of like the Mid-Trib stuff some Dispensationalists are into. My brother was into that for awhile before he went historic pre mil.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 4, 2009)

My point guy on this was Irvin Baxter, Jr. of Endtime Ministries I loved listening to him everyday and finding out what news events I was failing to see the significance of. (Sigh) I miss that rush I used to feel when I sensed that Armageddon clock ticking closer to all hell breaking loose.


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## MrMerlin777 (Mar 4, 2009)

BobVigneault said:


> My point guy on this was Irvin Baxter, Jr. of Endtime Ministries I loved listening to him everyday and finding out what news events I was failing to see the significance of. (Sigh) I miss that rush I used to feel when I sensed that Armageddon clock ticking closer to all hell breaking loose.



I kinda miss the roller coaster ride myself Bob. Perhaps we should get together over a beer and console ourselves.


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## LawrenceU (Mar 4, 2009)

As much of an adrenaline junkie that I am I am glad I was never on that roller coaster.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 4, 2009)

I'd love to Donald. Remember just recently I started the first annual "Dispensational for a Day" celebration so we formers could capture a little bit of that excitement.

Yesterday I heard that Obama and Gordon Brown were getting together to talk about the prospects of a one world currency to help deal with the worldwide recession. Their eyes were literally rolling around inside my Dispensational friend's heads. I was excited for them.





MrMerlin777 said:


> BobVigneault said:
> 
> 
> > My point guy on this was Irvin Baxter, Jr. of Endtime Ministries I loved listening to him everyday and finding out what news events I was failing to see the significance of. (Sigh) I miss that rush I used to feel when I sensed that Armageddon clock ticking closer to all hell breaking loose.
> ...


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## Jimmy the Greek (Mar 4, 2009)

BobVigneault said:


> I'd love to Donald. Remember just recently I started the first annual *"Dispensational for a Day" celebration *so we formers could capture a little bit of that excitement.
> 
> Yesterday I heard that Obama and Gordon Brown were getting together to talk about the prospects of a one world currency to help deal with the worldwide recession. The eyes were literally rolling around inside my Dispensational friend's heads. I was excited for them.



 
_Dispensational for a Day_. You crack me up.


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## BobVigneault (Mar 4, 2009)

In case you missed it Jim, here it is.


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## Curt (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks, guys. A young friend of mine, who I thought was coming aong in his understanding of the Bible, has become an assistant pastor under a fellow who refers to himself - adamantly - as a pre-wrather. The little bit of research I did before putting the question to you experts showed me that both the pre-wrathers and the pre-tribs are adamant that their positions are not in any way compatible.

Thanks, again.


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## lynnie (Mar 4, 2009)

Back when Israel was duking it out with Hizbollah in Lebanon, I talked to a Pastor who knew four Calvary Chapel people who were really, really, angry that the rapture hadn't happened yet.

Visited a CC midweek with a member friend a while back...the altar call was for getting saved so you don't get left here during the ( imminent) rapture 

Pre wrath at least realizes that people all over the world are suffering great trials, and only expects to be delivered from unique judgements at the very end that have never happened before. It is far preferable to the people I've talked to who actually say that America is a Christian nation, so we'll never suffer what out brethren have suffered for 2000 years, we'll get raptured out first.


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