# Order of Worship: Confession before/after sermon?



## matthew11v25 (Oct 8, 2009)

Our Church (and other PCA churches I have been to) has the following order of service:

Prelude
Call to worship
Hymn/Psalm
Prayer of approach
Hymn/Psalm
Confession
Hymn/Psalm
Words of Grace
Understanding our faith (catechism Q&A)
Prayers of the people
Sermon
Hymn
Benediction

*My question is: Why not place the confession/words of grace, etc (or similiar parts), after the sermon? *


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## raekwon (Oct 8, 2009)

Some do.


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## au5t1n (Oct 8, 2009)

My church's reasoning for placing the confession early in the service is that it makes sense for believers, when they come together to worship, to acknowledge their sin and dependence on God's grace as soon as possible, which has implications for the entire worship service.

-----Added 10/8/2009 at 02:58:49 EST-----

In other words, the same reason total depravity is the first of the five points - Realization of our utter sinfulness and dependence on God's grace and forgiveness informs our whole theology and worship.


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## BertMulder (Oct 8, 2009)

austinww said:


> In other words, the same reason total depravity is the first of the five points - Realization of our utter sinfulness and dependence on God's grace and forgiveness informs our whole theology and worship.



Interesting you should say that...

And yes, in the acronym TULIP it comes first...

But in the Canons of Dordt, it is actually this order: ULTIP


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## au5t1n (Oct 8, 2009)

That's awesome! I've got to starting calling it ULTIP! 

I can see why they would put election first. People could argue till they're blue in the face about whether Scripture teaches total depravity, but there is no ignoring the predestination verses in the Bible unless you do so intentionally.


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## matthew11v25 (Oct 8, 2009)

Rae - thats interesting. I just have not been to any that order the service that way.

Austin,
I am guessing your point is the reasoning behind why many church structure the service that way. 

I am trying to flesh out benefits of having the sermon more on the front end. For instance, after hearing the word preached and being convicted the body would have a time of confession, etc. 

I just started reading Bryan Chapell's new book "Christ-Centered Worship" and it looks like he will approach the subject later in the book.


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## markkoller (Oct 8, 2009)

> Isaiah 6
> 1In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
> 2Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.
> 3And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory.
> ...



Isaiah 6. It certainly seems logical that one would acknowledge sin soon after coming into the presence of a holy God (worship).


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Oct 8, 2009)

Pastor Mark beat me to it!
Worship should follow a cycle of gospel logic. We are invited into God's presence. (Call to worship) We declare his majesty and authority. (Opening hymn/psalm, prayer of adoration/invocation) Our response when confronted by God's majestic and holy character is to recognize our sin and confess it. (Call to confession, confession of sin) God then assures us of our pardon. (Words of assurance/declaration of pardon) We respond with praise. God then teaches us from his word. (Scripture readings and sermon) Then he feeds us at his table (Lord's Supper) We respond with praise and are then sent out with his blessing (Benediction) 

Placing the confession after the sermon alters this cycle. I can understand why some do it like, particularly if communion is being celebrated.
Most of the available liturgies that the church has from the past have this kind of cycle. This is basically the Genevan liturgy of Calvin.
Chapell in _Christ Centered Worship_ places various liturgies from various traditions ( RCC, Luther, Geneva, Westminster, Rayburn) and looks at the similarities found in them.


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## matthew11v25 (Oct 9, 2009)

I appreciate the responses.


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