# Symbols in an Episcopal church



## Organgrinder (Jul 31, 2012)

Some other folks and I did a gospel sing along for an elderly Episcopalian congregation the other day. It was a church of about 20 regular attendees. They liked it very much and we'll be doing more of them in the future.

I know little about the Episcopal church. They had crucifixes that were abstract looking pieces of art. One had Jesus in a full length robe above the alter and the fellowship hall had an abstract image of Jesus that had no details at all. It looked like it was made of metal. Why do they do that? I've only been in a couple of Catholic churches and their crucifixes were not abstract modern art. There was also a peace sign on a banner in the fellowship hall. 

This all seemed strange to me being Reformed and going to a baptist church. To even play in such a place is something I thought I'd never do back in my SBC only days.


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## J. Dean (Jul 31, 2012)

You might want to ask the Episcopalians that. They might be able to explain it. Keep in mind, though, that the Episcopal church is a more liberal church in general (But boy do they have some beautiful renditions of the Psalms when they sing!!).


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## Edward (Jul 31, 2012)

Under the Elizabethian Compromise, you get Anglicans/Episcopalians that range from Anglo-Catholic to Reformed. The Anglo-Catholics are basically Roman Catholics without the Pope. Sounds like the church you visited was from that end of the spectrum (the Episcopal church in Plano is from that end, as well.) The large church in Plano that split off was from the other end, although I'd describe it as largely Evangelical rather than reformed. You'd see much less of that kind of imagery there. And there is the one in Dallas were the pastor and a large chunk of the membership split off for the PCA. It was from the Reformed end of the spectrum. 

I tell one of my Episcopal co-workers that his congregation is more Catholic than the pope, and this is onr reason why. 

There are Episcopal priests and congregations that have split and gone to Rome. You may recall the story in the Dallas paper a few weeks ago about the married father-son combination who became Catholic priests in a joint ordination ceremony recently as their wives watched. 

Which is all a long way of saying that their spiritual forefathers renounced the pope to retain their heads, but didn't renounce their theology.


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## Edward (Jul 31, 2012)

J. Dean said:


> that the Episcopal church is a more liberal church in general



It isn't really a liberal-conservative issue. Indeed, those from the Catholic end of the spectrum tend to be more traditionalist than those from other historical positions.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 31, 2012)

The Anglican church had a sounder position at one point. The _Homily against the Peril of Idolatry _was added to the authorized homilies in 1563, and calls representations of Christ lying images, and unlawful. _Sermons or Homilies appointed to be read in churches in the time of Queen Elizabeth of famous memory. New edition_ (London: Printed for the Society for Promoting Christian Knowledge, 1839) 235ff.


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## yeutter (Jul 31, 2012)

Organgrinder said:


> Some other folks and I did a gospel sing along for an elderly Episcopalian congregation the other day. It was a church of about 20 regular attendees.


 Average Sunday attendance in the Episcopal Church has dropped dramatically. The Gospel is no longer preached so new people are not being added to their numbers. Many congregations have an average age of 70+. Many congregations have grown so small they can not support their Church building, let alone support a full time rector.


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## jwithnell (Jul 31, 2012)

Twenty people? Likely the artwork was selected at an earlier date when the congregation was trying to be hip or relevant. You are seeing a dying congregation. Sad.


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## yeutter (Jul 31, 2012)

Edward said:


> Under the Elizabethian Compromise, you get Anglicans/Episcopalians that range from Anglo-Catholic to Reformed. The Anglo-Catholics are basically Roman Catholics without the Pope.


Actually it is a little more complicated then that. Some Anglo-Catholics, both in the Episcopal Church and the Church of England, are really Anglo-Romish. They are liturgically and doctrinally at one with Rome. Other Anglo-Catholics are closer to Eastern Orthodoxy doctrinally. Other Anglo-Catholics are really Jansenists. Many others identified as Anglo-Catholic are essentially Lutheran in doctrine. 
Very few congregations, and clergy left the major high church continuing Anglican bodies like the Original Province of the Anglican Catholic Church Welcome to the Anglican Catholic Church , The Anglican Province of Christ the King http://www.anglicanpck.org, The Holy Catholic Church, Anglican Rite Holy Catholic Church Anglican Rite to go over to Rome. Part of the reason is they did not swim the Tiber is they do not like the post Vatican II liturgical sloppiness of the Church of Rome. [more Catholic then the Pope] Part of the explanation is that the most clergy and congregations are at odds with much that Rome teaches.


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## Peairtach (Jul 31, 2012)

John Knox was disappointed in his involvement in the reformation of the English Church and called the result a "mingle-mangle". 

In many ways it is more of a "mingle-mangle" now than it ever was, although, no doubt, the light of a candle is still burning, and the voice of the bride and the bridegroom are still faintly heard, in places.


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