# Colossians 2:15-17



## Craig (May 26, 2004)

&quot;15 When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him16 [b:5bad1ee29d]Therefore[/b:5bad1ee29d] no one is to act as your judge in regard to food or drink or in respect to a festival or a new moon or a [b:5bad1ee29d]Sabbath day[/b:5bad1ee29d]- 17things which are a [i:5bad1ee29d]mere shadow[/i:5bad1ee29d] of what is to come; but the [b:5bad1ee29d]substance[/b:5bad1ee29d] belongs to Christ.&quot;

How should this passage be understood? Is Sabbatarianism pharisaical? Am I reading this Scripture wrong? It looks as though the plain meaning is that the Sabbath pointed to rest in a salvific way...pointing to Christ who is the substance, and greater than the shadow. 

I have struggled with Sabbatarianism for the last 2 years. For the last year or so I have accepted it and always had a burdened conscience when I HAD to work on Sunday. I believe it is good to have a day of rest dedicated to worshipping God (especially in a society like ours which is so secular); but I am not sure it is biblical to demand it given this Scripture....

What are people's thoughts? Please, don't quote the Confession to me. I affirm it, but with something this clear, I may have to take exception to it, although I find dedicating Sundays as a sort of &quot;sabbath&quot; as being beneficial....so I guess I affirm it practically rather than doctrinally.


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## fredtgreco (May 26, 2004)

Craig,

You MUST read Joey Pipa's book [i:3e642a870b]The Lord's Day[/i:3e642a870b]. It is the best modern exegetical defense of the Reformed doctrine of the Sabbath. Of particular note here is Pipa's dealing with these very verses in chapter 7, &quot;The Day Changed; The Obligation Unchanged&quot;

Pipa notes that what Paul has in mind here is the ceremonial observance of the [u:3e642a870b]Jewish[/u:3e642a870b] 7th day Sabbath by Judaizers in Colosse who were mixing legal observance with ascetism. He rightly notes that the formula &quot;festival, or new moon or Sabbath&quot; occurs several times in the OT, including:

[quote:3e642a870b]
The king also appointed a portion of his possessions for the burnt offerings: for the morning and evening burnt offerings, the burnt offerings for [b:3e642a870b]the Sabbaths[/b:3e642a870b] and [b:3e642a870b]the New Moons[/b:3e642a870b] and [b:3e642a870b]the set feasts[/b:3e642a870b], as it is written in the Law of the LORD. (2 Chr. 31:3)

Also we made ordinances for ourselves, to exact from ourselves yearly one-third of a shekel for the service of the house of our God: for the showbread, for the regular grain offering, for the regular burnt offering of [b:3e642a870b]the Sabbaths, the New Moons, and the set feasts[/b:3e642a870b]; for the holy things, for the sin offerings to make atonement for Israel, and all the work of the house of our God. (Nehemiah 10:32-33)[/quote:3e642a870b]

Leviticus 23 is a commentary on this concept, with 23:1-3 dealing with Sabbath observances, 23:24-25 dealing with New Moon observances, and 23:4-44 dealing with the festivals (or set feasts).

Paul is here sepaking against the observance of ceremonial laws in an asectic fashion (remember, &quot;do not touch, do not eat, do not handle&quot; Col. 2:20 ?)

This fits completely with the character of the book of Colossians, in which Paul is clearly refuting the ceremonial observance of the law.

The is a another more important and larger issue: if one abrogates the Sabbath, then your view of the Law must change. It cannot be a reflection of God's holy character. It is mutable. This is not a ceremonial add on. It is in the middle of the 10 Commandments. There is a reason why there is more text used for the 4th commandment than any other commandment. It is God preparing us for the attack on it. Have you wondered why Jesus speaks more about the Sabbath than any other Commandment? Why he confronts the Pharisees on this more than any other thing?

If Paul is saying that the 4th Commandment is not in effect any more - why doessn't Christ deal with that simply when he confronts the Pharisees? Why not just say &quot;you're wrong, the Sabbath is ceremonial and not a part of the moral law. The true moral law that will abide is only 9 commandments. I have come to confirm 9, and abrogate 1.&quot; Why all the validating and distinguishing (necessary and pious works, Sabbath to serve man), instead of just a mere brushing aside?

J.C. Ryle, the &quot;evangelical bishop&quot; well said that the Sabbath serves the good - the spiritual good - of man. He said, &quot;Take away a man's Sabbath, and his religion soon comes to nothing. As a general rule, there is a regular Right of steps down from 'no Sabbath' to 'no God'&quot; Our nation is an excellent testimony to this.


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## rembrandt (May 26, 2004)

I have recently started to observe the Sabbath. What is the Biblical evidence of man (not God in creation) observing the Sabbath [i:6201a8c498]before[/i:6201a8c498] the Mosaic covenant was instituted?

Rembrandt


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## Craig (May 26, 2004)

You make some good points, Fred. I'll see if my church has Pipa's book in their library.

As I said, I find much practical use for a &quot;Sabbath&quot; day, and from what I can tell, you very well may be right about Paul simply talking about the ceremonial aspect of the Sabbath but still dedicating a day as a Sabbath. However, Paul said that Jesus is the very thing...the very substance, and not the shadow. So when you say:

[quote:fe4e27da08]
if one abrogates the Sabbath, then your view of the Law must change. It cannot be a reflection of God's holy character.
[/quote:fe4e27da08]
I would have to disagree. I affirm there is usefullness to having Sunday be a day of rest, but I must say that our Salvation being secured by Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath...in effect, every day of our lives is a sabbath. See what I mean? God's character hasn't changed. We get to experience Sabbath as it really is. One could argue that this could make one more acutely aware of our rest in Grace and make each day of our lives more holy...

Again, this is not something I will be dogmatic on at this point. I will try to read that book by Pipa...after all, it would really be a waste feeling all that guilt for the last year, get a new job where I don't have to work on Sunday only to come back to my original understanding of the Sabbath 

Please punch holes in my reasoning if it's sloppy. I want to make sure I come to the correct conclusion on this.


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## fredtgreco (May 27, 2004)

[quote:ad1b9f5b8b][i:ad1b9f5b8b]Originally posted by rembrandt[/i:ad1b9f5b8b]
I have recently started to observe the Sabbath. What is the Biblical evidence of man (not God in creation) observing the Sabbath [i:ad1b9f5b8b]before[/i:ad1b9f5b8b] the Mosaic covenant was instituted?

Rembrandt [/quote:ad1b9f5b8b]

Exodus 16


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## C. Matthew McMahon (May 27, 2004)

As it stands right now, I am 4 lectures into a 7 part series (about 7 hours) on the Sabbath/Lord's Day. It covers the basics, and helps those new to the doctrine get an overview the Bible's teaching of it. I will let you all know when it is done. I will post it and the outline later on.


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## BrianLanier (May 27, 2004)

[quote:34aa5c2a0e][i:34aa5c2a0e]Originally posted by webmaster[/i:34aa5c2a0e]
As it stands right now, I am 4 lectures into a 7 part series (about 7 hours) on the Sabbath/Lord's Day. It covers the basics, and helps those new to the doctrine get an overview the Bible's teaching of it. I will let you all know when it is done. I will post it and the outline later on. [/quote:34aa5c2a0e]

I can't wait! Your lectures on CT so far have been most excellent!


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## Contra_Mundum (May 27, 2004)

Here's a quote from Dr. Carrick (Dr. Pipa's colleague @ GPTS):[quote:dab38893f0][b:dab38893f0]A man will show who his God is on the Lord's Day[/b:dab38893f0][/quote:dab38893f0]Is his God football? Expect him to devote the day (hours and hours of it) to football. Is it his boat? Expect to see him at the lake. Is it Jehovah? Expect him to commit the day to God.


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## Ianterrell (May 27, 2004)

[quote:fa605f1276][i:fa605f1276]Originally posted by Craig[/i:fa605f1276]
You make some good points, Fred. I'll see if my church has Pipa's book in their library.

As I said, I find much practical use for a &quot;Sabbath&quot; day, and from what I can tell, you very well may be right about Paul simply talking about the ceremonial aspect of the Sabbath but still dedicating a day as a Sabbath. However, Paul said that Jesus is the very thing...the very substance, and not the shadow. So when you say:

[quote:fa605f1276]
if one abrogates the Sabbath, then your view of the Law must change. It cannot be a reflection of God's holy character.
[/quote:fa605f1276]
I would have to disagree. I affirm there is usefullness to having Sunday be a day of rest, but I must say that our Salvation being secured by Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath...in effect, every day of our lives is a sabbath. See what I mean? God's character hasn't changed. We get to experience Sabbath as it really is. One could argue that this could make one more acutely aware of our rest in Grace and make each day of our lives more holy...

Again, this is not something I will be dogmatic on at this point. I will try to read that book by Pipa...after all, it would really be a waste feeling all that guilt for the last year, get a new job where I don't have to work on Sunday only to come back to my original understanding of the Sabbath 

Please punch holes in my reasoning if it's sloppy. I want to make sure I come to the correct conclusion on this. [/quote:fa605f1276]

Craig,

You are leaving out in your reasoning a huge chunk of the Sabbath meaning. God worked for six days and rested on the seventh. We are then morally tied to working, and morally tied to setting aside a day, that God also sanctifies, to rest from our regular labors and worship God. This precludes relying on our regular efforts in an ungodly day, from failing to meet with the people of God regularly (it leaves us without excuse). Further we look forward to the eschatalogical rest that we will have in Christ. 

The Lord's Day is our day to meet with fellow pilgrims! The Sabbath was never just a good type or shadow it was a moral issue! It is included in the same decalouge that says &quot;You must not kill&quot; and is included is included in the commandments Christ says are summed up in the words: Love your God, and love your neighbor.


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## fredtgreco (May 27, 2004)

[quote:bbcfde2ecd][i:bbcfde2ecd]Originally posted by Craig[/i:bbcfde2ecd]
You make some good points, Fred. I'll see if my church has Pipa's book in their library.

As I said, I find much practical use for a &quot;Sabbath&quot; day, and from what I can tell, you very well may be right about Paul simply talking about the ceremonial aspect of the Sabbath but still dedicating a day as a Sabbath. However, Paul said that Jesus is the very thing...the very substance, and not the shadow. So when you say:

[quote:bbcfde2ecd]
if one abrogates the Sabbath, then your view of the Law must change. It cannot be a reflection of God's holy character.
[/quote:bbcfde2ecd]
I would have to disagree. I affirm there is usefullness to having Sunday be a day of rest, but I must say that our Salvation being secured by Christ is the fulfillment of the Sabbath...in effect, every day of our lives is a sabbath. See what I mean? God's character hasn't changed. We get to experience Sabbath as it really is. One could argue that this could make one more acutely aware of our rest in Grace and make each day of our lives more holy...
[/quote:bbcfde2ecd]

But Craig, why isn't the 1st commandment abrogated? Isn't it fulfilled in Christ? Isn't Christ the sum of the 5th commandment? Isn't He the fulfillment of all the Law?

Why does Hebrews 4 say that there remains a Sabbath rest for the people of God? The word used there is sabbatismos or a &quot;sabbath observance&quot; or &quot;sabbath rest.&quot; It is because the sabbath is not abrogated.

The 10 commandments stand or fall together.


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## Craig (May 27, 2004)

[quote:d6d3803fc1]
Is his God football? Expect him to devote the day (hours and hours of it) to football. Is it his boat? Expect to see him at the lake. Is it Jehovah? Expect him to commit the day to God. 
[/quote:d6d3803fc1]

That's just unhelpful rhetoric...it's about as useful as me walking up to the guy and saying: &quot;You show me your God on Sunday, I'll do it the other 6 days of the week.&quot;

Ian said:
[quote:d6d3803fc1]
You are leaving out in your reasoning a huge chunk of the Sabbath meaning. God worked for six days and rested on the seventh. We are then morally tied to working, and morally tied to setting aside a day, that God also sanctifies, to rest from our regular labors and worship God. 
[/quote:d6d3803fc1]
Now we're getting somewhere. You're making me think. What I've been doing is taking the Sabbath in a purely redemptive way, the fact God worked 6 and rested on the 7th does seem to present a pattern regardless of Redemption. However, seeing that Christ is the Second Adam, could one argue that we have a more perfect Sabbath? Adam was being tested in the Garden, Christ actually passed it. I'm still wavering on HOW to view the Sabbath in light of Christ's work and the text from Colossians. Paul says that the ceremonial sabbath (perhaps even the day itself) was a shadow while the substance belongs to Christ.

Fred
[quote:d6d3803fc1]
But Craig, why isn't the 1st commandment abrogated? 
[/quote:d6d3803fc1]
I don't know....I reread Colossians and didn't find anything saying that we shouldn't let people judge us just because we like to make idols. Again Fred, I'm taking the idea of the Sabbath more in a Redemptive way. I am not saying it's gotten rid of. I'm just not empowering one day with the title. I'm saying Christ's work provides a perpetual sort of Sabbath...in fact, I would go so far as to say upon glorification that is when we TRULY experience Sabbath.

[quote:d6d3803fc1]
Isn't Christ the sum of the 5th commandment
[/quote:d6d3803fc1]
Again, show me where Scripture states you can murder since not murdering was a shadow....C'mon Fred. I'm not the first to &quot;spiritualize&quot; aspects of the Sabbath. In fact, I know theologians of the past have linked the Sabbath day with being a shadow the glory to come. It isn't that I'm saying we are no longer morally bound to observing the Sabbath. If you're not doing it daily (i.e. through confession of sins and asking for forgiveness based on Christ's merit alone), you will actually end up breaking the rest of the commandments. In my understanding of the Sabbath, I'm not even abrogating it! It's still on the Top Ten list, and is still observed.

[quote:d6d3803fc1]
The 10 commandments stand or fall together.
[/quote:d6d3803fc1]
You're right. Which is why I've stated a few times that I've not thrown it out. I appreciate your initial post, but this last one was simply condescending.


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## fredtgreco (May 27, 2004)

Craig,

I know that you are not the first one to &quot;spiritualize&quot; the Sabbath. My point is that no one ever spiritualizes any of the other commands. No one ever says that thou shalt not murder really has reference to spiritual death; or that adultery is swallowed up in unfaithfulness to God. But for some reason, the 4th commandment gets wisked away &quot;in Christ.&quot; We're not sure what that means, except that we now don't have to set aside any time for God.

Again, what about Hebrews 4? How does a sabbath remain for the people of God if there is no more sabbath?

[Edited on 5-28-2004 by fredtgreco]


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## Craig (May 28, 2004)

[quote:93c2ff1e18]
[i:93c2ff1e18]Fred[/i:93c2ff1e18]
Again, what about Hebrews 4? How does a sabbath remain for the people of God if there is no more sabbath? 
[/quote:93c2ff1e18]
Sorry....I guess I neglected reading that chapter yesterday and decided to just &quot;think through&quot; things. You're right. It's clear from Hebrews 4 that we are still to set aside one day of rest so we don't fall into the same sins from the past.

Simple enough.

Next time I'll go ahead and read the Scripture you refer me to before I open my cake hole. Since there's no blushing bouncy, I'll have to improvise:

Here's my &quot;non sabbatarian&quot; perspecive......:tomb:


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## Dan.... (May 29, 2004)

I love happy endings!!!


Craig,

I was also recently convinced of the sabbath about a couple of months ago... The Lord's Day is truly a blessing that God has graciously given to His people. May God give us the grace to call His day our delight (Is 58:13,14).

[Edited on 5-29-2004 by Dan....]


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