# Yak, yak, yak!



## bookslover (Mar 24, 2007)

I've got a post up at my blog (second post from the top - "Worship Advice") in which I rail against one of my pet peeves - people standing around the sanctuary flapping their gums about nothing in particular until right up to the second the worship service begins - instead of silently gathering together to sit and prepare their hearts for worship.

I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but, as I mention in the blog post, I've seen this in every church I've been in - conservative churches all - in almost 27 years as a believer.

There's lots of time for inane babbling _after_ the service. Must we have it before the service, too? Grrr.

What say ye?


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## Herald (Mar 24, 2007)

You're biting off a huge chunk here. I've heard everything from casual conversation, discussion about the morning bible class (Sunday School) and encouragement between the brethren. If people are waiting until the Lord's Day to get their hearts right for worship, then I think they have missed the bus altogether. It's like living as a heathen all week and uttering a quick prayer of contrition before the Lord's Supper. It doesn't work. I have no problem with saints conversing with each other before the worship service so long as it is not in bad taste.


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## bookslover (Mar 24, 2007)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> You're biting off a huge chunk here. I've heard everything from casual conversation, discussion about the morning bible class (Sunday School) and encouragement between the brethren. If people are waiting until the Lord's Day to get their hearts right for worship, then I think they have missed the bus altogether. It's like living as a heathen all week and uttering a quick prayer of contrition before the Lord's Supper. It doesn't work. I have no problem with saints conversing with each other before the worship service so long as it is not in bad taste.



No, no, Bill. You were _supposed_ to say, "Brilliant, insightful post, Richard!" Sheesh! It's so hard to get good help around here...


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## Herald (Mar 24, 2007)

bookslover said:


> No, no, Bill. You were _supposed_ to say, "Brilliant, insightful post, Richard!" Sheesh! It's so hard to get good help around here...



Isn't it though? You know, I started on the PB as this nice Baptist who knew his place. "Don't challenge the Presbyterians! They may make changes under your screen name." That resolution lasted for about a year.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Mar 24, 2007)

Our directory of worship says:



> *Of the Assembling of the Congregation, and their Behaviour in the Public Worship of God.*
> 
> WHEN the congregation is to meet for publick worship, the people (having before prepared their hearts thereunto) ought all to come and join therein; not absenting themselves from the publick ordinances through negligence, or upon pretence of private meetings.
> 
> ...


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## Augusta (Mar 24, 2007)

bookslover said:


> I've got a post up at my blog (second post from the top - "Worship Advice") in which I rail against one of my pet peeves - people standing around the sanctuary flapping their gums about nothing in particular until right up to the second the worship service begins - instead of silently gathering together to sit and prepare their hearts for worship.
> 
> I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but, as I mention in the blog post, I've seen this in every church I've been in - conservative churches all - in almost 27 years as a believer.
> 
> ...



 This is something I have thought about and I used to herd my children into the sanctuary and have them sit quietly. I have gotten away from this recently, so I thank you for the reminder. They didn't call it a solemn assembly for nothing.


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## Herald (Mar 24, 2007)

> Let all enter the assembly, not irreverently, but in a grave and seemly manner, taking their seats or places without adoration, or bowing themselves towards one place or other.



Andrew - what do you consider to be the "assembly"? I would interpret that as the sanctuary, where the corporate body of believers meet for worship. Just outside our sanctuary is a multi-purpose room. Often times folks will gather there in between our morning bible time and the worship service. They will have tea or coffee and fellowship. I do agree that once inside the sanctuary they should be prepared for worship. On the Lord's Day morning the sanctuary is the place where the body of Christ comes into the presence of God.


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## Dieter Schneider (Mar 24, 2007)

bookslover said:


> I've got a post up at my blog (second post from the top - "Worship Advice") in which I rail against one of my pet peeves - people standing around the sanctuary flapping their gums about nothing in particular until right up to the second the worship service begins - instead of silently gathering together to sit and prepare their hearts for worship.
> 
> I don't know what the answer to this problem is, but, as I mention in the blog post, I've seen this in every church I've been in - conservative churches all - in almost 27 years as a believer.
> 
> ...



In relation to your observation I have often thought about Matthew 12:36 and Mark 4:15. 
I think that much of what goes on before, during and after the services shows a lack of reverence and needs to be addressed from the pulpit – urgently. 
I also suggest that you and others ought to lead by quiet example – 'there is a time to be silent'.
One should not be judgmental and even after the service, when I speak to visiting friends, I ask them about the sermon. 
Meanwhile let our own actions speak louder than words. Perhaps you should arrive not too early, but neither should you be late. And what about finding a 'quiet' seat, if possible?


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## bookslover (Mar 24, 2007)

Dieter Schneider said:


> In relation to your observation I have often thought about Matthew 12:36 and Mark 4:15.
> I think that much of what goes on before, during and after the services shows a lack of reverence and needs to be addressed from the pulpit – urgently.
> I also suggest that you and others ought to lead by quiet example – 'there is a time to be silent'.
> One should not be judgmental and even after the service, when I speak to visiting friends, I ask them about the sermon.
> Meanwhile let our own actions speak louder than words. Perhaps you should arrive not too early, but neither should you be late. And what about finding a 'quiet' seat, if possible?



We sit on the right side of the sanctuary (as you face the pulpit) and toward the back, because there's room in that spot (the way the pews are configured) for my wife's wheelchair. From there, I can pretty much see the entire sanctuary and watch the people buzzing around. I like to prepare myself for the service by reading the passage that will be preached from and just kind of mentally and spiritually settling in, if you know what I mean. But it's hard to do with all the NOISE going on around me. <sigh>


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## Herald (Mar 24, 2007)

bookslover said:


> We sit on the right side of the sanctuary (as you face the pulpit) and toward the back, because there's room in that spot (the way the pews are configured) for my wife's wheelchair. From there, I can pretty much see the entire sanctuary and watch the people buzzing around. I like to prepare myself for the service by reading the passage that will be preached from and just kind of mentally and spiritually settling in, if you know what I mean. But it's hard to do with all the NOISE going on around me. <sigh>



Brother Richard - read the passage at home the evening before. Make it an item of family worship. Consider the passage that will be preached and meditate upon it. This way you will be less distracted while waiting for the worship service to begin.


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## toddpedlar (Mar 24, 2007)

bookslover said:


> We sit on the right side of the sanctuary (as you face the pulpit) and toward the back, because there's room in that spot (the way the pews are configured) for my wife's wheelchair. From there, I can pretty much see the entire sanctuary and watch the people buzzing around. I like to prepare myself for the service by reading the passage that will be preached from and just kind of mentally and spiritually settling in, if you know what I mean. But it's hard to do with all the NOISE going on around me. <sigh>



I'm with you fully on this one, Richard. This has always been a problem for us, also, in every church we've been part of. It's very hard to get the kids (all of whom we keep with us as a rule) settled down when their friends are bopping around from pew to pew, playing, and the adults are babbling on and on about insipid things. 

In a former church, a number of us made a request to the elders that the sanctuary doors be closed 15 minutes prior to the service, in order to aid reflection and meditation for the congregation in preparation for worship. This was shot down immediately with a "we love the fact that folks in our congregation are so eager to talk with each other and reconnect after the week." Seems to me now as it did then, an absolute misunderstanding of the purpose and ends of worship of the covenant community.

Todd


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## bookslover (Mar 25, 2007)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Brother Richard - read the passage at home the evening before. Make it an item of family worship. Consider the passage that will be preached and meditate upon it. This way you will be less distracted while waiting for the worship service to begin.



You _do_ remember what the penalty is for when a Baptist disagrees with a Presbyterian, do you not? I fear it may be expensive for you, this time!


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## Herald (Mar 25, 2007)

bookslover said:


> You _do_ remember what the penalty is for when a Baptist disagrees with a Presbyterian, do you not? I fear it may be expensive for you, this time!



You don't mean *gasp* that I have to say 10 WCF's at the stations of Dordt? Have you no heart?!


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## Herald (Mar 25, 2007)

> My church situation in Saint Louis (when I lived there): People often arrive early to talk becasue many calvinistic churches have members who drive very far. Sunday is thus a time to worship AND meet with the saints...hard to do if silence only should be observed. When the time approaches, my pastor goes to the piano and plays "Onward Christian Soldiers". After 2 run throughs, as usual, all are in their seats and quiet and services begin.



Trevor - excellent point. Calvinistic Baptist churches are few and far between in most areas. The nearest one to our church is in Washington, DC (great place to have one, eh?). If we are family, then why not act like it? But I also have empathy and share some of brother Richard's concern. The sanctuary is where we meet to worship God. Certainly the worship service is a place where our interaction becomes vertical. This doesn't mean we should howl like wolves outside of the sanctuary, but we should take the opportunity to bless one another in fellowship.


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