# Using the word "luck"



## Dena (Oct 18, 2006)

*Using the word \"luck\"*

I hope this is in the correct spot.

I just wanted to generate discussion and hear thoughts and views and convictions of the use of such words as "luck" and "lucky."

So....share away.

Is it ever appropriate? Why, why not? Implications of using the word...etc. 

aaaaaaaaaand....go.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 18, 2006)

You can read some of my thoughts on this here. It is also worth reading the Westminster Larger Catechism 105 in connection with "fortune."


----------



## Dena (Oct 18, 2006)

thank you very much!


----------



## BobVigneault (Oct 18, 2006)

I took 'luck' and 'chance' out of my vocabulary. I say 'opportunity' instead of 'chance' and I just don't use the word luck. I don't think there's anything wrong in using them in there common everyday expression - good luck or chances are. Using luck in a way that intentionally would replace God's providence would be wrong. As for me though, I don't use either, just feels weird.


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> I took 'luck' and 'chance' out of my vocabulary. I say 'opportunity' instead of 'chance' and I just don't use the word luck. I don't think there's anything wrong in using them in there common everyday expression - good luck or chances are. Using luck in a way that intentionally would replace God's providence would be wrong. As for me though, I don't use either, just feels weird.



I very consciously do not use the term. I usually use the term Providence or Providentially even when talking in meetings with Marines. 

I also will either say "Providential Blessings" to someone. Actually, there is a Naval tradition that I use as well that we use when a person is departing. We say to them: "Fair Winds and Following Seas".


----------



## bfrank (Oct 18, 2006)

> I also will either say "Providential Blessings" to someone. Actually, there is a *Naval* tradition that I use as well that we use when a person is departing. We say to them: "Fair Winds and Following Seas".



Interesting...I thought you might say..."thanks for the ride"


----------



## non dignus (Oct 19, 2006)

I do use 'good luck'. I never say it to fellow Christians however. I used to abstain from the term but gradually began using it again for strangers and business associates. 

When I do say it I whince a little bit, but it's shorthand in a dying culture which is trusting in such things.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 19, 2006)

Those of you trying to drop those words from you vocabulary--Good Luck with that.

You know what burns me even more than christians who flippently use 'luck'? It is christians who edit words that sound like other words.

I have been in churches that called potlucks 'pot-providence' suppers


----------



## Arch2k (Oct 19, 2006)

My wife packed a couple of "fortune" cookies in my lunch today. Maybe we should be evangelical and make some that contain quotes from our reformed forefathers or bible verses and call them "insight" cookies or something. :lightbulb:


----------



## ChristopherPaul (Oct 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> My wife packed a couple of "fortune" cookies in my lunch today. Maybe we should be evangelical and make some that contain quotes from our reformed forefathers or bible verses and call them "insight" cookies or something. :lightbulb:



Yeah and they can be sold right along side those "Testamints."


----------



## Kevin (Oct 19, 2006)




----------



## Romans922 (Oct 19, 2006)

Dena, it is wrong!


----------



## BertMulder (Oct 19, 2006)

This is one of those things that I believe this text is talking about:

16Be not righteous over much; neither make thyself over wise: why shouldest thou destroy thyself ? 

17Be not over much wicked, neither be thou foolish: why shouldest thou die before thy time? 

As well as the concept that we do not offend our fellow Christians in this matter.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 19, 2006)

Joking aside the key is what does the word (luck) "mean"?

Do you mean by saying "Good luck, with the interview Bob!" I trust the godess of fortune shines upon you ? or do you mean I hope/trust/believe/wish/want/desire that all goes well?

This is one of those cases In my humble opinion that christians have a tendency to get "silly" about from time to time. To 'ban' a word from your speach sounds leagalistic to me. We are NOT talking about taking Gods name in vain here after all.


----------



## satz (Oct 19, 2006)

Ecclesiastes 9:11 I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.


----------



## BertMulder (Oct 19, 2006)

That's why I say, with God's Word, let's not be (self)righteous over much. Let's not be over wise.

Just like I personally have no problem with Merry Christmas or Happy New Year.

But we have to watch that we do not offend the weaker brethren.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 19, 2006)

John MacArthur, _Gambling: The Seductive Fantasy_, Part II:



> Now, let me give you the principles. Principles why gambling is wrong.
> 
> 1. It denies the reality of God as sovereign by affirming the existence of luck or chance.
> 
> ...


----------



## Theoretical (Oct 19, 2006)

From this, would there be anything wrong with, say board or card games without gambling where there is a certain degree of "randomness" due to a die or card shuffles? Now I certainly do not bet any money on these things - but McArthur's point does make me wonder about that a bit. Just looking for some insight.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 19, 2006)

Theoretical said:


> From this, would there be anything wrong with, say board or card games without gambling where there is a certain degree of "randomness" due to a die or card shuffles? Now I certainly do not bet any money on these things - but McArthur's point does make me wonder about that a bit. Just looking for some insight.



I'm no longer sure how to link to old threads, but there was one a while back where I quoted William Perkins who spoke of three types of games: games of wit, games of hazard and a mixture of the two. Games of mere 'hazard' or 'chance' (those games which allow for no skill to influence the outcome) are prohibited as a violation of the third commandment (lots). Games of wit or skill, and games which involve both skill and some randomness or chance or hazard are lawful, according to Perkins. 

There is a Biblical sense in which the word 'chance' may be used, ie., when it relates to events outside our control or influence strictly speaking. When we ascribe a good result to chance, however, we are detracting from the blessed providence of God by not ascribing the good result to Him and his providence. 

Games of chance, though, is a term that has reference to things like roulette which call upon fate or some other force besides God to intervene and bring about a particular (good) result. Monopoly, to give an example, would be a mixture of hazard (dice) and skill (deciding whether to buy property or not).

Does this help to clarify?


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 19, 2006)

Colin Maxwell on Prov. 16.33:



> 1) THOSE WHO BELIEVE IN LUCK OR CHANCE SHOULD SERIOUSLY RETHINK THEIR POSITION:
> A/ Why do many people believe in what they call luck or chance? They see the little ***** all jumbled up in the box - or the tickets put in at random - the spinning wheel etc., - they believe that there is no controlling force apart from gravity. Why?
> 
> [1] No knowledge of God esp. the doctrine of His sovereignty. Sovereignty of God?
> ...


----------



## Theoretical (Oct 19, 2006)

That's a big clarification - and it also helps me understand the difference between a game where skill is needed vs. a pure chance affair. A good example is the fundamental difference between poker and bridge. Thanks as always for the insights.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 19, 2006)

Theoretical said:


> That's a big clarification - and it also helps me understand the difference between a game where skill is needed vs. a pure chance affair. A good example is the fundamental difference between poker and bridge. Thanks as always for the insights.


----------



## Herald (Oct 20, 2006)

BertMulder said:


> As well as the concept that we do not offend our fellow Christians in this matter.



All of us are capable of being offended. It is my opinion that there are too many thin-skinned believers in the church. While we should never seek to intentionally offend a brother, we can't worry about every little thing we do. If a brother in Christ were to wish me "good luck", I would be appreciative of his well wishes. I try not to use the term, but I am not going to make the matter larger than what it is.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 20, 2006)

Scott, trust me there is a lot of skill involved in playing poker. If it were only a matter of "luck" then I could win the Texas Hold 'Em games we play at poker night at least once!

I can't remember the citation right now but the shorter forbids "inordinate gaming" NOT gaming.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 20, 2006)

Kevin said:


> Scott, trust me there is a lot of skill involved in playing poker. If it were only a matter of "luck" then I could win the Texas Hold 'Em games we play at poker night at least once!



True, there is skill in poker. When I think of mere games of hazard, I am thinking of games like roulette. 



> I can't remember the citation right now but the shorter forbids "inordinate gaming" NOT gaming.



It is the Westminster Larger Catechism which prohibits "wasteful gaming" (142, Eighth Commandment). This means gambling. 

J.G. Vos, _The Westminster Larger Catechism: A Commentary_:



> *6. What is "wasteful gaming" and why is it wrong?* By "wasteful gaming" the catechism denotes all forms of gambling, which are inherently sinful because they involve an attempt to gain wealth without rendering an equivalent value in return.



Also see his comments on WLC 105:



> *10. Why is it wrong to ascribe our prosperity or success to "chance" or "fortune"?* This is wrong because there really is no such thing as "chance" or "fortune." What men call "chance" is simply that which cannot be humanly calculated or predicted. Every event that men say comes by "chance" really comes by the decree and providence of God. If a coin is tossed in the air, whether it comes up "heads" or "tails" is in every case determined by God. If a man were to find a million dollars in gold and treasure buried on his property, he might regard this discovery as "chance" or "fortune," but in reality it would be the working out of the counsel and providence of God. If we believe that God has foreordained whatsoever comes to pass, and that his providence controls all that happens, then there cannot be such a thing as "chance."


----------



## Kevin (Oct 20, 2006)

Thanks Andrew.

I sometimes think that you must just be a giant head full of information about chuch history, and theology. A giant typing head.

I wasn't even in the right catachism. Sheesh.

I do think that "wasteful" is a qualifier for "gaming" meant to define the the limits of gaming not to outlaw it. A certain amount of the confusion in our minds arises (I think) because we use "game" & gamble" as seperate catagories.


----------



## gwine (Oct 20, 2006)

Kevin said:


> I have been in churches that called potlucks 'pot-providence' suppers



That one always cracks me up. It's kind of like vegetarians eating tofu burgers. I mean, if you want to eat a buffalo burger, eat a buffalo burger. Don't try to disguise it a something that it isn't.


----------



## Kevin (Oct 20, 2006)

My wife was explaining to our children about a family we know that is Hindu, she explained their religion as well as some of the details of the culture that arise from it.

That night after dinner I was reading the scripture and my 6 yo daughter spoke up and said "I could NEVER be a Hindoo!" Me thinking this was a sign of grace turn to her and say "why dear, what keeps us from false religions" she with a shocked look on her face said "Dad, you GOTTA eat meat!"

BTW "potluck" is a bastardization of an indian word "potlatch" that means feast with much food that everyone is invited to. Haida from the BC coastal area I believe.


----------

