# Abraham and Total Depravity



## Knight (Jan 25, 2013)

Some Roman Catholics mention Abraham's faith in Genesis 12 as evidence for a process of justification. My question is this: if Abraham's faith wasn't saving faith, then given total depravity, how could his faith be cited as a type of faith pleasing to God in Hebrews 11? To put it another way, if Abraham wasn't justified in Genesis 12, then his faith wasn't saving faith. But does this not imply he was unregenerate? If so, doesn't total depravity preclude the possibility that Abraham's actions in Genesis 12 were pleasing to God? If not, how can one who is regenerate be an unbeliever?


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 25, 2013)

Gen.15:6 doesn't mean to tell us that was the chronological day and hour when Abram was "zzzzap" justified.

We are justified by faith: such is Paul's point of drawing our attention to that text. That's what it says; that's what it means.

Abram demonstrated his faith all the way back in Gen.12. He didn't wait a few years, and then get justified on a later try.

My faith in Christ today is "reckoned to me for righteousness." The same was also true yesterday, and as far back as I can remember.

This ongoing regarding-of-me-as-righteous doesn't constitute a "process" of making me righteous.


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## Knight (Jan 29, 2013)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Gen.15:6 doesn't mean to tell us that was the chronological day and hour when Abram was "zzzzap" justified.
> 
> We are justified by faith: such is Paul's point of drawing our attention to that text. That's what it says; that's what it means.
> 
> ...



A reply so simple it just might work 

Thanks.


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