# Is God responsible for evil



## Edm (Jun 29, 2015)

This topic was brought up and I'm trying to reason it out. No I do not believe God does evil, or invented it. If one takes the definition that evil is the absence of good, you can explain its authorship. My question comes from the definition of responsible. I am under the impression that if God is the able to end all evil, and He chooses not to, then the evil is permitted because He allows it. Therefore He is responsible for the fact that evil can happen. If lightning strikes your house and it catches on fire, the lightning is responsible for the fire. If I am standing there with a hose and decide not to put it out, and I can put it out, I am responsible for you not having a home. Am I making sence or am I just wrong? This is confusing me.


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## Alan D. Strange (Jun 29, 2015)

Edm said:


> I'm trying to reason it out



We can't, of course, reason this out on our own resources. 

If you seek to reason within Scripture, which is the only proper way to reason in humility, you should look at WCF 3 and its Scripture proofs. God does indeed ordain whatever comes to pass but is not the author of sin. How this all works we leave to the mind of God which is, as WCF 2.1 and elsewhere says,"incomprehensible."

WCF 3.8 makes it clear (in citing passages like Rom 9:20, 11:33, and Deut. 29:29) that this is not given to us for speculative purposes but so that we may be assured of our eternal election (recognizing that we otherwise have no hope). All of this section is so that we will praise, reverence, and admire God and be encouraged (those that sincerely obey the gospel) in humility, diligence, and abundant consolation." 

Think prayerfully and carefully about this and rest it in His hands.

Peace,
Alan

P.S. I also preached a sermon on James 1 last night that addresses this in part, making it clear that, while God superintends and brings trials, He is not the author of evil, but the giver of every good and perfect gift. It is easy to be muddled in our thinking about this. This is why James says, in v. 16, "beloved, do not be deceived." It should be posted on SermonAudio soon.


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## timfost (Jun 29, 2015)

"Let God be true but every man a liar." (Rom. 3:4)


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## py3ak (Jun 29, 2015)

Thomas Aquinas makes the necessary distinction with helpful brevity:



> The same process of reasoning enables us to perceive that, without prejudice to divine providence, evil can arise in the world because of defects in secondary causes. Thus in causes that follow one another in order, we see that evil finds its way into an effect owing to some fault in a secondary cause, although this fault is by no means the product of the first cause. For example, the evil of lameness is caused by a curvature in the leg, not by the motive power of the soul. Whatever movement there is in the progress of a lame man, is attributed to the motive power as to its cause; but the unevenness of the progress is caused by the curvature of the leg, not by the motive power. Similarly the evil that arises in things, so far as it has existence or species or a certain nature, is referred to God as to its cause; for there can be no evil unless it resides in something good, as is clear from what we said above. But with regard to the defect that disfigures it, the evil is referred to a lower, defectible cause. Accordingly although God is the universal cause of all things, He is not the cause of evil as evil. But whatever good is bound up with the evil, has God as its cause.


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## Edm (Jun 29, 2015)

See... I agree with the above. But, isn't God, as the allower of evil, responsible for it being able to happen? Not for the act of evil, but for its allowed existence?


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## py3ak (Jun 29, 2015)

Responsible to whom? 

Of course evil would not exist if God did not allow it. The only way around that conclusion is to deny that God is the creator. But I don't think we should be interested in avoiding that conclusion. As Thomas went on to say:



> God’s permission of evil in the things governed by Him is not inconsistent with the divine goodness. ...it is the concern of divine providence, not to safeguard all beings from evil, but to see to it that the evil which arises is ordained to some good.



At this point, we trust in God's goodness. We remind ourselves that we can know that what he has done is right and good, because he did it. The thought that we would have done things differently shouldn't function as an indictment of God, but as a grateful reminder that he is the judge of all the earth, that he is goodness itself, that (in a word) he is God, and we are not. And so where we cannot explain or where we do not understand, we can still rest. And God has given significant help to the weakness of our faith in this regard by making clear that he is not the author nor the approver of sin.


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## chuckd (Jun 29, 2015)

Edm said:


> See... I agree with the above. But, isn't God, as the allower of evil, responsible for it being able to happen? Not for the act of evil, but for its allowed existence?



I remember reading a good analogy one time. Say a judge ordains the execution of a man for murdering a 10 year old boy. An executioner carries it out. What if the executioner is the boy's father and carries out the sentence as an act of revenge with resentment in his heart? The judge ordained something good to maintain justice, but the executioner sinned.


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## Edm (Jun 29, 2015)

py3ak said:


> Responsible to whom?
> 
> Of course evil would not exist if God did not allow it. The only way around that conclusion is to deny that God is the creator. But I don't think we should be interested in avoiding that conclusion. As Thomas went on to say:
> 
> ...



I think my problem is with the definition of responsible. I don't use it as being held accountable to someone. I am meaning it is the result of His action. I need to go back and clarify that point in my discussion with the people. Thank you.


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## Miss Marple (Jun 29, 2015)

Like we have sins of omission? If I can stop evil, and don't, I've committed a sin of omission. Yet God can stop evil, apparently in some way does not, and He can't and does not sin.

I don't mean to be a lightweight in this discussion but I think you might be missing the concept of justice. It is actually evil to let sin go unpunished. The existence of evil in our world is a result of our sin (Adam's, and all of ours), is it not? For God to not allow any repercussions would, it seem to me, be wrong. And He can't sin! I hope I don't overstep.


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## MW (Jun 29, 2015)

Reason is necessary to take stock of the terms being used. While the terms remain undefined they are next to useless.

What is evil? If it is the absence of good, and God is acknowledged to be all good, it is a contradiction in terms to ask whether God can be responsible for evil.

The answer to the question must be, God forbid!


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## Nicholas Perella (Jun 30, 2015)

Miss Marple said:


> I think you might be missing the concept of justice.



I see that at times also. Good point.

Also, just thinking about what others wrote, there is a limitation to how we may think after God's thoughts for God has a limitation to what He has revealed to us, i.e. His written Word.

In relation to God's saving of His people His mercy is demonstrated.
In relation to God's punishing of the reprobate His justice is demonstrated.

Each of those as to what God is demonstrating and thus revealing of Himself is holy and righteous. His mercy in His being a merciful God and His justice in His being a just God. Both of these characteristics of God are good. Yet, if God only demonstrated mercy then we would not be revealed His good character of being just. And, if God only demonstrated justice then we would not be revealed His good character of being merciful.



> Romans 9:17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”



Each time we are only revealed the goodness of God in His justice and mercy. The nuances of evil and why sin is here, why a wicked world, and so forth is not fully revealed by God, and Pastor Strange explained this very well as to why in his post. Only His goodness and control, i.e. not allowing evil to ever have the upper hand and to have its way (control).

In this case (topic under discussion in this thread), when we read the word "permitting" in regards to God we should only see in that word His justice and His mercy. Obviously His justice and His mercy are of His glory for He is truly a good God, and we may praise Him for revealing this, as to who He is, to us.


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## AnotherDaniel (Jun 30, 2015)

God is the first cause of everything but he is not the author of evil.


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## michaeloris (Jul 2, 2015)

How do I post something here?


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## crixus (Jul 19, 2015)

God is not responsible for evil, but He let's it happen. And we all have to answer for our evil acts.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jul 19, 2015)

We know of God He “worketh *all things* after the counsel of his own will” (Eph 1:11). We also know “the LORD is upright . . . and there is no unrighteousness in him” (Psalm 92:15), and that “The LORD is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works” (Psalm 145:17).

What is the most evil thing that ever happened upon the earth (or in the entire universe)? Was it not the murder of the Holy One, the Creator of heaven and earth, and all that therein are? And yet of this it is written, “Him, being delivered by the determinate counsel and foreknowledge of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have crucified and slain” (Acts 2:23).

God delivered and determined Christ to be slain. It will not do to say He but “allowed” it, for He *determined* it. Yet He is holy in all His works, and righteous in all His ways.

When what we call evil God means for good, His purpose overrules our categories and value judgments. In the eschaton, when all is said and done in this age, and we are on New Earth with Him, we shall see that all that happened we thought evil—*experienced* as evil—was not evil to Him as He worked out our glory and everlasting joy by it.

Note that this does not exculpate men who do evil, nor absolve them of responsibility for what they have done. But whatever *God* does truly is holy, just, and righteous. It is that His ways are not our ways, and they are too high above us to comprehend. So we trust Him. When we suffer, we trust Him. We may hold men accountable, and see them punished. But God we trust, for we know He loves us with an everlasting love (Jer 31:3). This is what godly men and women have helped me to understand. I think this is right.

Reactions: Like 1


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## timfost (Jul 19, 2015)

Amen!

Gen. 50:19-20:



> Joseph said to them, “Do not be afraid, for am I in the place of God? But as for you, you *meant evil* against me; but God *meant it for good*, in order to bring it about as it is this day, to save many people alive."



Belgic, article 13:



> THE PROVIDENCE OF GOD AND HIS GOVERNMENT OF ALL THINGS
> 
> We believe that the same good God, after He had created all things, did not forsake them or give them up to fortune or chance, but that He rules and governs them according to His holy will, so that nothing happens in this world without His appointment; nevertheless, God neither is the Author of nor can be charged with the sins which are committed. For His power and goodness are so great and incomprehensible that He orders and executes His work in the most excellent and just manner, even then when devils and wicked men act unjustly. And as to what He does surpassing human understanding, * we will not curiously inquire into farther than our capacity will admit of; but with the greatest humility and reverence adore the righteous judgments of God, which are hid from us, contenting ourselves that we are pupils of Christ, to learn only those things which He has revealed to us in His Word, without transgressing these limits. This doctrine affords us unspeakable consolation, since we are taught thereby that nothing can befall us by chance, but by the direction of our most gracious and heavenly Father; who watches over us with a paternal care, keeping all creatures so under His power that not a hair of our head (for they are all numbered), nor a sparrow can fall to the ground without the will of our Father (Matt. 10: 29–30), in whom we do entirely trust; being persuaded that He so restrains the devil and all our enemies that without His will and permission they cannot hurt us. And therefore we reject that damnable error of the Epicureans, who say that God regards nothing but leaves all things to chance.


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