# N.T. Wright



## The Author of my Faith (Feb 23, 2010)

Is N.T. Wright Reformed? If so how does his view on NPP fit into Reformed Theology, it seems to be in opposition to the Reformed view. He is going to be in NYC at Redeember Presbyterian Church speaking on his new book. Aside from NPP does he have good things to say? Opinions anyone?

http://www.faithandwork.org/page2975.htm


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## Marrow Man (Feb 23, 2010)

His views on justification, of course, are not Reformed. Which book is he speaking on? The new one on justification? If so, I cannot believe Redeemer is giving him a stage to espouse his views on this topic!

This month's _Table Talk_ has a series of articles about Wright's view of Paul and justification. I would highly recommend it to you. As far as opinions about Wright, this quote by John Piper (in the same issue of TT) sums it up very well:



> Nicholas Thomas Wright is an English scholar and the Anglican Bishop of Durham, England. He is a remarkable blend of weighty academic scholarship, ecclesiastical leadership, popular Christian advocacy, musical talent, and family commitment. As critical as the articles in this magazine are of Wright’s understanding of the gospel and justification, the seriousness and scope of the issue is a testimony to the stature of his scholarship and the extent of his influence. I am thankful for his strong commitment to the authority of Scripture; his defense of the virgin birth, deity, and resurrection of Christ; his biblical disapproval of homosexual conduct; and the consistent way he presses us to see the big picture of God’s universal purpose for all peoples through the covenant with Abraham — and more. My conviction concerning Wright is not that he is under the curse of Galatians 1, but that his portrayal of the gospel — and of justification in particular — is so disfigured that it becomes difficult to recognize as biblically faithful. In my judgment, what he has written will lead to a kind of preaching that will not announce clearly what makes the lordship of Christ good news for guilty sinners, or show those who are overwhelmed with sin how they may stand righteous in the presence of God.


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 23, 2010)

Is he Reformed? No.
His view on Justification is in opposition to the Reformed view.
Aside from an aberrant view on Justification, he is a good speaker and has done some good work defending the Deity of Christ.


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## TimV (Feb 23, 2010)

Where did you hear he is going to RPC? His pushing for women Bishops doesn't go down well in Reformed circles, and his constant clamoring for subversion gets tiring.


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## The Author of my Faith (Feb 23, 2010)

TimV said:


> Where did you hear he is going to RPC? His pushing for women Bishops doesn't go down well in Reformed circles, and his constant clamoring for subversion gets tiring.


 
Events Calendar - N.T.Wright "After You Believe: Why Christian Character Matters" - Center for Faith & Work - Redeemer Presbyterian Church

Here is the link. Faith and Works is a Ministry of Redeemer Presbyterian. He is going to be speaking about Christian Character and not about NPP.

I know that he is a main propenent of NPP. I see the dangers of it. But I have heard Reformed leaders say he does have some good thoughts in other areas? I have not really read much on him only regarding NPP which I do not agree.


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## TimV (Feb 23, 2010)

Thanks, Steve


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## EricP (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm certainly no theologian, but having read Wright's What Paul Really Said and Paul in Fresh Perspective; and then Piper's The Future of Justification as well as Waters' The Federal Vision and Justification and the NPP it seems pretty clear to see that while he is an easier to read writer (in his more "popular press" books) than many, he is not reformed in many areas, particularly justification as others have mentioned. Some of his older NT commentaries have good things to read, though he seems to take his NT studies as the root of his NPP support. Though I've not heard him speak in public, I've heard him described as an excellent communicator; while I'm not smart enough to comment on Wright and the orthodoxy vs. heresy differentiation (and there may well be strong reformed and conservative support for a judgment of the latter), I'd suggest strong caution in going to listen to him: ability to present one's views in a "winsome" way doesn't guarantee orthodoxy in the least. In fact, I've always wondered if some of the folks that the likes of Athanasius, Irenaeus, and even Luther went up against weren't nice people and good speakers--maybe even better than the church fathers themselves.


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## The Author of my Faith (Feb 23, 2010)

EricP said:


> I'm certainly no theologian, but having read Wright's What Paul Really Said and Paul in Fresh Perspective; and then Piper's The Future of Justification as well as Waters' The Federal Vision and Justification and the NPP it seems pretty clear to see that while he is an easier to read writer (in his more "popular press" books) than many, he is not reformed in many areas, particularly justification as others have mentioned. Some of his older NT commentaries have good things to read, though he seems to take his NT studies as the root of his NPP support. Though I've not heard him speak in public, I've heard him described as an excellent communicator; while I'm not smart enough to comment on Wright and the orthodoxy vs. heresy differentiation (and there may well be strong reformed and conservative support for a judgment of the latter), I'd suggest strong caution in going to listen to him: ability to present one's views in a "winsome" way doesn't guarantee orthodoxy in the least. In fact, I've always wondered if some of the folks that the likes of Athanasius, Irenaeus, and even Luther went up against weren't nice people and good speakers--maybe even better than the church fathers themselves.


 
Eric, Not to go off topic but I am still fairly new to Reformed Theology, I have heard the term but have no clue what "Federal Vision" is? Is there a topic on here where I can go and get a basic overview as to what it is?

I am not going to see N.T. Wright. I have not desire. I have read Gospel of Free Acceptance in Christ: An Assessment of the Reformation and ‘New Perspectives’ on Paul. Cornelis P. Venema It was my first introductionto NPP and was very good. I want to read Wrights Book and Pipers as well so that I can see what Wright says first hand.


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 23, 2010)

Steve,

There's a whole forum devoted to the FV: http://www.puritanboard.com/f77/


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## ColdSilverMoon (Feb 23, 2010)

N.T. Wright is coming to my church? How did I miss that! I'll check it out and report back after the talk. NPP errors aside, he has made some good contributions, mainly on the breadth of evidence affirming the Resurrection and the diety of Christ.


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## lynnie (Feb 23, 2010)

I appreciate pastors who know we have varied gifts and strengths, and make an effort to expose their congregation to men with other strengths, so the equipping of the church will be more balanced. And I appreciate the wisdom of going outside our own local denominational circles too.

But NT Wright, in the PCA? Give me a break. If we were not already leaving Keller's Metro presbytery I think I'd go out of my way to write a letter of concern to RPC. I feel sorry for the good pastors in the Presbytery who have to pick up the pieces when the inevitable confusion starts.

---------- Post added at 06:17 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:07 PM ----------

Mason, it says he is gonna talk about godly character, not deity. That is the best they can get? I can think offhand of many better speakers to discuss deep inner character change. You want somebody who doesn't even get the relationship of faith to works to try and talk to us about works of obedience? Yeah it is an important subject, but NT Wright? 

As Marrow Man quoted from Piper: _In my judgment, what he has written will lead to a kind of preaching that will not announce clearly what makes the lordship of Christ good news for guilty sinners, or show those who are overwhelmed with sin how they may stand righteous in the presence of God._

Biblical character change for struggling sinners? NT Wright? 

I better shut up before I say what I really think.


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## EricP (Feb 23, 2010)

Maybe for a Reformed PCA church he'll forgo the honorarium and pay them?


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## ColdSilverMoon (Feb 23, 2010)

lynnie said:


> I appreciate pastors who know we have varied gifts and strengths, and make an effort to expose their congregation to men with other strengths, so the equipping of the church will be more balanced. And I appreciate the wisdom of going outside our own local denominational circles too.
> 
> But NT Wright, in the PCA? Give me a break. If we were not already leaving Keller's Metro presbytery I think I'd go out of my way to write a letter of concern to RPC. I feel sorry for the good pastors in the Presbytery who have to pick up the pieces when the inevitable confusion starts.
> 
> ...


 
Lynnie - I appreciate your concern, but he's not preaching a sermon series. He's giving a talk on his new book during a weeknight on Christian character. I really don't see that this is a problem or that it will cause "confusion." I'm actually looking forward to it. I realize his grave errors in many ways, but that doesn't negate his other contributions. The PCA position paper on NPP and FV praises his other work while criticizing the NPP.


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## Ivan (Feb 23, 2010)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> N.T. Wright is coming to my church? How did I miss that!



I'm sure living in New York City gives you many opportunities to hear lecturers and preachers that others would not have. And as to the wisdom of having N.T. Wright at a PCA church, well, I'll leave that to the PCAers to decide on that, but I've never let someone's bad points hinder me from learning what I can from them. 

I have gone to lectures condcuted by Hans Kung, Jurgen Moltmann, James Forbes, William Sloane Coffin and William Willimon...among others. I dare say that these gentlemen are a tad more controversial than N.T. Wright.


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## lynnie (Feb 23, 2010)

Mason I hope you are right and it is not my job to be your church elders so I apologize if my comments were out of place. But I was a baby Christian once and I didn't know how to sort out material by guys who are partial heretics. I just figured the church endorsed them. A guy like you with your theological breadth won't be harmed, but I think this sort of thing is poor judgment, especially when so many fine people with solid theology could help RPC members with their deep inner character. I pray God works it for good, and I hope guys like you sound a cautionary balance.


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## TimV (Feb 23, 2010)

Graciously said, Lynnie. Our PCA in NorCal invited a homosexual activist who was a struggling convert to Christianity, and I still don't think it was right.


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## DeborahtheJudge (Feb 27, 2010)

I thought this lecture was awesome! Thank you for sharing.


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## Dewi Sant (Mar 29, 2010)

Dear brethren,
The path of NT Wright leads straight to Rome. The mere fact that we are discussing the ins and outs of his "theology" and that "he may have some good things to say" - on the PURITAN BOARD for crying out loud - just shows to go ya how bad things have gotten. Had this man proclaimed his false gospel in the mid-17th century, the PURITANS would have made mince meat of him and would not have tolerated him speaking to any of the people in their care - let alone inviting him to speak in their Church.
And furthermore,
When Paul wrote to the Galatians he did not say "let that one part of what they say be anathema, but go ahead and invite him in to speak of these other matters, because, you know, he's got some really cool things to say..." ; rather, Paul said, "...let _him_ be anathema." Let the _person_ be accursed not just some of the things he says, right? Stay away is my advice, but I'm really hoping some of the Elders on this board will jump in.
Yours in Christ,
Kris


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## Scott1 (Mar 29, 2010)

The problem is that the individual has become identified as the patron, the ringleader of the "new perspectives" errors. The "federal vision" is really an offshoot of that.

He has created and is creating factions. The factions have gone off following him. And he is being enriched (materially) by promoting his book.

There are all kinds of biblical admonitions and warnings about this. This is nothing new.

If this was not so clearly an affront to the gospel- by confusing it, or by denying it, this would be easier to accept.

But it is.

Really, I would expect session, diaconate or members to express concern.



> *ColdSilverMoon*
> The PCA position paper on NPP and FV praises his other work while criticizing the NPP.



Yes, but we know the position paper was not written to praise his other work, it was expose the harm his teachings are doing to the church, and specifically in our denomination.


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## TimV (Mar 29, 2010)

He denies the Gospel, at least the way Sproul explained it this weekend. I've felt for years he was a godless heathen heading for hell, but now I don't feel questionable saying that in public. Keller might as well have invited the Dalai Lama.


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## Philip (Mar 29, 2010)

> The problem is that the individual has become identified as the patron, the ringleader of the "new perspectives" errors. The "federal vision" is really an offshoot of that.



While the conclusions of NPP and FV are similar in some respects, they have no historical connection. NPP is a movement in a higher-critical biblical scholarship which FV adamantly rejects. FV is going down the same path as Scott Hahn did, while NPP is a movement that is (so I'm told) considered old hat by the New Testament studies community (I was talking with a New Testament professor who said that he was dealing with NPP thirty years ago). The fact is that the two are coming from opposite corners of the room, so to speak, and just happened to have met in the middle . . . sort of.


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## Edward (Mar 29, 2010)

The Author of my Faith said:


> TimV said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you hear he is going to RPC? His pushing for women Bishops doesn't go down well in Reformed circles, and his constant clamoring for subversion gets tiring.
> ...


 
"*He will be discussing his newest book,* After You Believe, the third in a series following Simply Christian, and Surprised by Hope.

The lecture will be followed by Q&A as well as a reception where Dr. Wright will be present to sign books available for purchase."
Events Calendar - N.T.Wright "After You Believe: Why Christian Character Matters" - Center for Faith & Work - Redeemer Presbyterian Church


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## Dewi Sant (Mar 29, 2010)

TimV said:


> He denies the Gospel, at least the way Sproul explained it this weekend. I've felt for years he was a godless heathen heading for hell, but now I don't feel questionable saying that in public. Keller might as well have invited the Dalai Lama.


 
Precisely.

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Ivan said:


> ColdSilverMoon said:
> 
> 
> > N.T. Wright is coming to my church? How did I miss that!
> ...



"Pleased to meet you! won't you guess my name?" Mick Jagger

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The Author of my Faith said:


> Is N.T. Wright Reformed? If so how does his view on NPP fit into Reformed Theology, it seems to be in opposition to the Reformed view. He is going to be in NYC at Redeember Presbyterian Church speaking on his new book. Aside from NPP does he have good things to say? Opinions anyone?
> 
> Events Calendar - N.T.Wright "After You Believe: Why Christian Character Matters" - Center for Faith & Work - Redeemer Presbyterian Church


 
1. Is N.T. Wright Reformed? Not at all.
2. If so how does his view on NPP fit into Reformed Theology? It doesn't. 
3. He is going to be in NYC at Redeember Presbyterian Church speaking on his new book. Don't go.
4. Aside from NPP does he have good things to say? Nope.
5. Opinions anyone? Plenty (but you've prob'ly figured that out already).

Forgive the less than irenic tone. This is important. This guy came not through the gate but rather over the fence. I know not his voice.


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## tommyb (Mar 29, 2010)

John Robbins just nails NT Wright and what he is about in this lecture: 
SermonAudio.com - The Theology of N. T. Wright


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