# Romans 2:5-11



## Quatchu (Jan 31, 2011)

"5 But because of your hard and impenitent heart you are storing up wrath for yourself on the day of wrath when God’s righteous judgment will be revealed.
6 He will render to each one according to his works: 7to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; 8but for those who are self-seeking and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, there will be wrath and fury. 9There will be tribulation and distress for every human being who does evil, the Jew first and also the Greek, 10but glory and honor and peace for everyone who does good, the Jew first and also the Greek. 11For God shows no partiality."

I'm having difficulties with this passage specifically with regard to what seems to be works based salvation. I'am most likely mistaken, i have listened to sermons and read different thing on this passage and i still don't know how to understand this passage. Does anyone possible have some insight that might help me?


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## Skyler (Jan 31, 2011)

[original post deleted]

In that case, you need to keep reading.

God judges righteously--he punishes those who do evil and rewards those who do good. (vv. 5-11)

Trying to follow the works of the Law is not sufficient to escape His righteous judgment (vv. 12-24)

And he goes on from there explaining the full schema of salvation. But notice towards the end of the chapter--"But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God."

Truly following the Law isn't a matter of external deeds. It's a matter of the heart.

Paul picks back up on that theme in chapter 3.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 31, 2011)

A cruicial key to interpreting Romans is to understand how Paul structures his presentation. It's a classic case of "Here's the bad news, now for the good news." That is, first comes the Law, then the Gospel.

Paul begins at Rom.1:18 by speaking of "the wrath of God is revealed." He talks about condemnation and sin, placing ALL men under the judgment of God--Gentiles and Jews, without exception--all the way down to 3:20, "For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin."

Notice then the parallel language to 1:18, at 3:21, "But now the righteousness of God is revealed." And from there, God's plan of salvation in Jesus Christ is unfolded through the subsequent chapters, through ch.11 (generally accepted as the end of the "doctrinal" portion of the letter).

What this has to do with 2:5-11 is, it places it in the context of Paul's overall thought. It disposes us to read the phrases that speak of those who gain immortality by doing-well, not as a statement of how men ACTUALLY attain heaven, but the only way they COULD attain heaven, which would take a truly virtuous life.

Even if one is inclined to think that Paul is speaking of certain real men who do true good in God's eyes, he says nothing here about how they might actually achieve this end of good-accomplishment--only that their deeds are seen (somehow) as good in God's eyes, and so they receive glory, honor, and peace. But the question still stands, relative to this whole section: _how can anyone actually meet up to that standard, when the universal judgment of God against all men is that they are all ungodly?_ By the time one gets to 3:20, there should be no more question as to how men fare, on their own. "There is *none* that doeth good, no not one" 3:12.

Only in the gospel (3:21ff) is there an answer to the question, "How can anyone do good, as God sees good, or seek for glory, honor and immortality, and attain peace with God?"


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## Iconoclast (Jan 31, 2011)

14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 

15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 

16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 

17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 

18Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 


Justin,
Our works are either self-willed, or done unto the glory of God. The language in Mt 25 speaks of fruit of faith, or lack of these fruits.
Salvation is of the Lord ,but it is a salvation that works.


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## Quatchu (Feb 1, 2011)

Thanks guys, 
I feel I may of worded my opening post wrong, i was not feeling that scripture was some how supporting works salvation, I very strong hold to grace. The point most of you made is one that I would agree with. I was listening to Sinclair Ferguson preach on this passage and he mentioned this passage can clash with much of the rest of Romans which supports grace through faith and from there discussed why and some of his points were new to me and wondered if my original position on the passage was correct. However you have all put my fears to rest and reassure me that my original understanding was the correct one.


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## JP Wallace (Feb 1, 2011)

Structure is key... Chapter 1:16,17 - the Abstract for the letter, or the proposition Paul will prove in the Letter then Chapters 1-3 - Sin (or the need for justification) 4-5 Salvation (Justification by faith not works), 6-8 Sanctification following on from Salvation etc.....


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