# Windows 7



## fredtgreco (May 4, 2009)

Is anybody using this? What is your experience? Are there significant differences from Vista? I'm thinking about installing the RC.


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## Skyler (May 4, 2009)

From what I've heard it's orders of magnitude better than Vista, though I haven't used it myself.

I'm tempted to get a copy though once it's released...


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## NaphtaliPress (May 4, 2009)

I dunno; PB's Reformed Musings is not a fan.
Windows 7 Release Candidate Installation and Notes Reformed Musings
At least 62 gaping security holes in Windows 7 Release Candidate Reformed Musings


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## Reformed Musings (May 4, 2009)

Thanks for the links, Chris!

Fred - I've been testing Windows 7 since its first beta and now through the current release candidate. Compared to Vista, it takes less memory to run and runs faster on the same hardware. It's actually more responsive than WinXP in many cases. I also find it better organized and friendlier to migrate thereunto.

On the other hand, it is less secure with its default settings as my post on the 62 gaping holes points out. The UAC has been dumbed down to the point of being virtually useless. Changing its tune from a few years ago, Microsoft is now saying that the UAC isn't a security measure. Hmmm...hard to imagine another use for it. Also, Windows 7 has the same onerous DRM as Vista, the same hardware and software incompatibility issues, and a similar high price.

Many in the trades (e.g., some on ZDNet) are not recommending that individuals or small businesses migrate to Windows 7 from Vista because it doesn't offer much more. I respectfully disagree. If you aren't going to abandon the serfdom of Microsoft like us enlightened Linux users have (and I encourage you to do so), then I believe that Windows 7 offers better performance and a smoother user experience than Vista. You can make it more secure by setting the UAC to its highest level, although you will be annoyed by all the permission popups.

The RC seems very stable. Indeed, I didn't suffer any serious failures in the betas. That said, I'd be reluctant to go with a pre-release of any operating system on a daily production machine. Some folks are running the RC on their primary systems, but if it goes bad, you have nowhere to go. I just don't think that's a good idea. Plus, you may or may not have to reinstall from scratch when the release comes out depending on how Microsoft designs the final release.

I hope that helps answer your original question.


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## uberkermit (May 5, 2009)

I have not used Windows for years (My last copy of Windows was Me, which was horrible). I gave the beta Win 7 a try, and I have to say that it works really well. I was suitably impressed enough that I have decided to buy it when it becomes available in store. I have been using build 7000, though I am going to grab the RC this weekend likely. The thing I like is that it works so well on my old machine (AMD Athlon 64 3500+); it even runs DNS 10 well enough to use.


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## fredtgreco (May 5, 2009)

uberkermit said:


> I have not used Windows for years (My last copy of Windows was Me, which was horrible). I gave the beta Win 7 a try, and I have to say that it works really well. I was suitably impressed enough that I decided to buy it when it came available. I have been using build 7000, though I am going to grab the RC this weekend likely. The thing I like is that it works so well on my old machine (AMD Athlon 64 3500+); it even runs DNS 10 well enough to use.



Rob,

What glitches with DNS10 are apparent?

Any hardware that does not work (printers, video, audio)? I have to say that was the most disappointing thing about Vista - hardware incompatibility.


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## Devin (May 5, 2009)

I think I'm finally going to give it a try....which means I'll have XP, Vista, Windows 7, and Linux Mint on my laptop. It'll be a miracle if they all get along


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## Skyler (May 5, 2009)

Speaking of enlightened Linux users, I've heard that Ubuntu 9.04 is geared up to give Windows 7 a run for its money. It's supposed to be just as slick, right? And probably more secure?


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## uberkermit (May 5, 2009)

fredtgreco said:


> Rob,
> 
> What glitches with DNS10 are apparent?
> 
> Any hardware that does not work (printers, video, audio)? I have to say that was the most disappointing thing about Vista - hardware incompatibility.



I wouldn't say glitches - it just does not run as fast on my old machine as it would, for example, on a core 2 duo processor. Apparently the processors with lots of extra L2 cache run DNS nicely. My machine only has 512kb L2. What happens with my setup is that I can only say so much text, and then I have to wait for the computer to catch up. If I dictate in a constant fashion, the text gets *really* messed up. As it is, I think I can get about the same speed with DNS10 as I can type. Even with the lack of computer speed, I do not regret having laid out the cash for DNS, and I will gladly buy Windows 7 when it is in the store. 

As far as my hardware compatibility, I didn't have too much trouble. The XP/Vista compatibility mode for installing drivers (installing anything, really) works fairly well. That said, when I first got Win 7, I was not able to get my Creative X-Fi sound card working at all. Creative has since released a proper driver for that card. Sorry I can't help much more on that end of things.


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## Reformed Musings (May 6, 2009)

Skyler said:


> Speaking of enlightened Linux users, I've heard that Ubuntu 9.04 is geared up to give Windows 7 a run for its money. It's supposed to be just as slick, right? And probably more secure?



The developers did a great job with Jaunty. It shows the first efforts of the new interface team Canonical put together. Jaunty also takes less disk space and way less RAM to run, and it runs very responsively on older hardware. Linux is always more secure than Windows, but that's especially evident between Ubuntu 9.04 and Windows 7. I've been using 9.04 since its release and really like it. Although I've been testing Windows 7 since build 7000. I'm not in the least bit tempted.


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## Berean (May 6, 2009)

Here's the official MicroShaft download page

Windows 7 Release Candidate Customer Preview Program


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## tcalbrecht (May 8, 2009)

Depending upon your host system, if you have enough horsepower I recommend installing the Virtualbox hypervisor from Sun and checking out Windows 7 there. 

I have my Ubuntu 8.04 laptop set up that way, and I'm currently running Windows Vista, Windows 7 RC, and Ubuntu 9.04 in VMs for comparisons. The laptop is an HP dv2000z with Turion 64 X2, 2 GB of memory and 70 GB HDD (with 250 GB coming in the mail). The Turion processor has virtualization support which makes things run a bit faster.


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## kevin.carroll (May 8, 2009)

Having your nosehairs plucked is more desirable than working a machine on Vista.


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## Berean (May 8, 2009)




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## bened (May 8, 2009)

kevin.carroll said:


> Having your nosehairs plucked is more desirable than working a machine on Vista.



Amen, brutha!

paid $50 a little while back to move my thinkpad tablet to xp. Haven't looked back since.

It'll take lots of convincing to get me to try anything new from windows.

The only thing keeping me from going mac is that logos and bibleworks are still in the infant stages on mac os. Logos tech guy told me to purchase the $59 mac upgrade asap to lock in the price. Wait a year or so, and logos will have the kinks worked out.

That said, if I knew could run linux on my thinkpad and not lose bible software capabilities, I'd prolly jump in.


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## Reformed Musings (May 8, 2009)

bened said:


> That said, if I knew could run linux on my thinkpad and not lose bible software capabilities, I'd prolly jump in.



You could do what I do: Run Linux for everything with one exception - run Logos in a virtual machine. Sun's Virtualbox is free and works fine. VMWare Workstation is more powerful but is expensive. When I moved to Linux, it was knowing that I'd be using WinXP in a virtual machine as long as necessary for Logos. Works great!


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## bened (May 8, 2009)

Reformed Musings said:


> bened said:
> 
> 
> > That said, if I knew could run linux on my thinkpad and not lose bible software capabilities, I'd prolly jump in.
> ...



That sounds great and too easy to be true for a software neophyte like me. But, hopefully, I can figure it out.

See my PM and respond when you get a chance.


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## bened (May 9, 2009)

I've wandered around a bit in looking at trying to install linux (ubuntu) and vm box. Then I stumbled upon Wubi, which I'm downloading currently (but I'm about to call it a night). It has about an hour and a half left even w/my dsl connection. The fact I can boot to linux _or_ XP and not mess anything up sounds good enough to give it a shot. Plus the info says I can uninstall if necessary.

I'm just so locked in windows mode of thinking, i.e. download a new OS = wipe your hard drive. Hence, I didn't fathom I could install Linux (and was clueless about its sundry versions) w/o losing everything.

Ideally, Bob, I like the idea of Linux being my main operating system and running logos as you suggested, not sure if my Bibleworks will work in linux or no. I'd probably get my MS office 2007 apps in vm as well, since I've tried Open Office in windows and it's just not as smooth as Word - _at least for me_. But, hey, if linux/ubuntu runs like y'all say - maybe its open office apps would run smoother as well.

Anyway, tomorrow morning sometime, we'll see what happens. 

Thanks for the encouragement and advice.


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## Reformed Musings (May 10, 2009)

Ben,

I thought that I'd toss some things out for you here which might benefit others. Programs made for one operating system (like Windows, Linux, or Mac) will not run on others without some sort of special program to either provide or emulate the system services of the original operating system. Linux has a program called Wine which provides many underlying Windows service to help SOME Windows programs run under Linux. They keep a compatibility database at WineHQ - Browse Applications. They spend a lot of time on games, which have no Linux equivalency. I use it for some simple programs like iSilo.

That said, there are Linux "equivalents" to most Windows programs. By that I mean programs that do the same things, but don't necessarily look the same. OpenOffice.org office suite is a great example of a program that does all of the common functionality needed in an office suite under Linux. There is a list of equivalent programs at http://wiki.linuxquestions.org/wiki/Linux_software_equivalent_to_Windows_software, and The Linux Alternative Project - linuxalt.com, and a few other places. These can be quite handy if you're looking for something in particular. Personally, I search the Ubuntu repositories first to see what's available. 

Wubi is a great way to try Linux, but you will take a performance hit because Linux is running on a virtual disk. Another way to try Linux is to dual-boot both Windows and Linux. This is offered as an installation option in Ubuntu. Linux will resize your Windows partition to make room for Linux on the hard drive. That way, you'll get full performance out of both operating systems and can swap between them by rebooting. Linux will read the data on your Windows partition, but I haven't found a reliable Windows driver that will read Linux file systems.

One last comment before I get to your PM. There is always a learning curve with new programs and/or operating systems. It's best to use new ones regularly for several weeks at least to gain an appreciation of them. In doing that with Moneydance, which replaced Quicken, I found that it did everything that I needed very well. Linux isn't Windows and visa versa, although I did not find switching cold turkey from Windows to Linux a serious issue.

If you've already installed Ubuntu with Wubi, I'd be interested to hear how it's going.


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## Devin (May 10, 2009)

Alrighty, I downloaded Windows 7 and installed it on a separate partition. After using it awhile and making sure certain things would work, I decided to go ahead and upgrade my Vista install to 7 RC just so I wouldn't have to reload certain drivers/settings all over again. It is definitely a bit snappier than Vista, and in that respect it reminds me of XP. 

I still need to do some benchmarking to really test things out. So far all I have run is the video stress test from Half Life 2: Lost Coast (pretty old, I know), which resulted in only a 1 FPS advantage for XP.


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## bened (May 11, 2009)

Reformed Musings said:


> Wubi is a great way to try Linux, but you will take a performance hit because Linux is running on a virtual disk. Another way to try Linux is to dual-boot both Windows and Linux. This is offered as an installation option in Ubuntu. Linux will resize your Windows partition to make room for Linux on the hard drive. That way, you'll get full performance out of both operating systems and can swap between them by rebooting. Linux will read the data on your Windows partition, but I haven't found a reliable Windows driver that will read Linux file systems.



Thank you for the reply, Bob.

I stumbled upon Wubi and downloaded Ubuntu. When I reboot I'm given the option of going into XP or Ubuntu. So far, so good. XP programs still appear a bit crisper in appearance - but XP is slower loading and unloading - that's understandable w/it having to do much more heavy lifting than Ubuntu.

When I get a little more adventurous, I'll try installing the Virtual Box option you mentioned and run Logos, etc in Ubuntu. One thing, though; XP has significantly more resources allocated than Ubuntu, as I just followed the defaults when installing, and didn't wander beyond what was recommended (exact amounts escape me).

I'm curious to find out if my XP bible programs running via VB in Ubuntu - when I figure out how to do that - will require more system resources than the default allocation provides to run effectively. 

I'll let you know what happens and if I run into any snafus


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## Reformed Musings (Jun 23, 2009)

Ben,

How did it work out? The Bible programs should have worked fine in a virtual machine. That's how I run Logos now. If you're using Wubi, it might drag a bit because you're running a virtual machine on a virtual drive. That's a bit of overhead.


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## bened (Jun 26, 2009)

Reformed Musings said:


> Ben,
> 
> How did it work out? The Bible programs should have worked fine in a virtual machine. That's how I run Logos now. If you're using Wubi, it might drag a bit because you're running a virtual machine on a virtual drive. That's a bit of overhead.



Thanks for checking, Bob. Pardon the delay. Just back in the saddle after the Southern Baptist Convention - which was positive for the most part (Al Mohler is the man - period).

Since this thread, I've purchased a macbook pro (15" 2.8 ghz, 4mb ram, 500 gb hd) and am enjoying it (especially the brilliant screen) - but still in the midst of a learning curve. I'm running Logos and Bibleworks in parallels and both run swimmingly. I do experience some minor frustration going back and forth from windows to mac and would love to be able install a desktop icon when in xp pro but that's nitpicking. All in all, I'm glad I made the switch and all will be more native to me as time goes on.

I've not installed Ubuntu on my Mac. Though Ubuntu ran well for the most part, I couldn't achieve the same display quality as with windows on my "old" thinktablet x60 and was neither savvy or ambitious enough to follow your suggestion to rectify (but you were gracious to help), so preferred firefox in that setting. With my Mac, though I've downloaded and run firefox in both environments, Safari seems the best bet when in Mac OS. Never thought I'd like it more than firefox but I do, nonetheless. 

At some point in the future, I will do a VM for windows 7 and perhaps for Ubuntu, just to see how it does. 

I imagine the processor can handle it and will add additional 4 mb memory after prices go down. 

But, finally, anybody who has saved their $$$ but are holding off on going Mac b/c of inability to run windows software, purchase parallels for $60 - $80 and go for it. You won't regret it. But might want to hold on to your old windows machine for a couple of weeks or so for sermons or important projects until you get comfortable with your Mac. Or, if'n you jump in all the way w/no fallback make sure you download your fav word processing software for windows and put that on your VM. Mac's "pages" is just a shade better than a sharp stick in the eye (save the $40) and Open Office didn't work near as well as I'd hoped (but was great in Ubuntu). Hence, I'm back in w/office 2007 and will add the Mac version forthwith so I'll have it in both flavors.

Thanks again, Bob, and hope that might help anyone else thinking of making the switch.


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