# “Creeping Death” and Theodicy



## Romans 9:16 (Oct 30, 2009)

It occurs to me that much of the work done on the question of theodicy (an apologetic for the harmony of God’s beneficence and the presence of evil and suffering in the world) is deficient. The usual response posits that God permits suffering to ultimately turn things to good in the end. This seems to me to boarder on breaking the 9th commandment. Though God does work all things for the good of the elect, he does not work for a universal good. Multitudes exist only to be dammed. They were designed for the everlasting whip of God’s’ merciless vengeance (Prov 16:4). It’s time to leave behind flowery and effeminate visions God as the lollipop dispensing grandfather of the world. It would seem advisable for Arminian and universalist apologists to consult the following test case: Exodus 11:4ff, 

“Thus says the LORD….all the first-born of Egypt shall die”

To quote the Mattalica paraphrase (always more accurate than the Message): 

“Die by my hand
I creep across the land
Killing first-born man” (“Creeping Death” by Mettalica)

This curse is, in a sense, continuing. The tenth plague on Egypt continues in the world at large (and the West in particular) in that non-Christians (“Egyptians”) abort their offspring. While the family of Abraham grows, the non-believer bloodies the Nile with their very heritage! 

Though God takes no pleasure in sin and no pleasure in the pain of creatures, it must be borne in mind that divine judgments are a looming dynamic that demand our attention. Apologetics can never truncate theology. Reprobation, covenant cures, etc., must factor into the explanation given to the inquirer. After all, they will find those texts anyway (sooner or later), so we might as well be fearlessly honest now!


God is a consuming fire! He does whatever he pleases!


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## BobVigneault (Oct 30, 2009)

Abortion is evil so I would call it a demonic counterfeit of the righteous 10th plague judgment of God.


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## Romans 9:16 (Oct 30, 2009)

BobVigneault said:


> Abortion is evil so I would call it a demonic counterfeit of the righteous 10th plague judgment of God.





I said “in a sense” it continues. I am not making the statement that there is no difference. However, the parity is still greater than many think. Just because in abortion, man is the agent of the death, this does not work against the factuality of divine curse underlying the phenomenon. A classic example would be the covenant curses against God’s people in the exile. Babylonian evil was the ordained vehicle for divine judgments. Instrumentality says nothing of causality; they are logically distinct. I maintain, abortion is a curse on the seed of the serpent.


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## Pergamum (Oct 30, 2009)

If abortion is the curse on the seed of the serpent, what is the eternal fate of the aborted? And what of those women who are saved out of sinful pasts?

Also, I am not sure why theodicy does not cover this case as well.


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## Romans 9:16 (Oct 30, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> If abortion is the curse on the seed of the serpent, what is the eternal fate of the aborted? And what of those women who are saved out of sinful pasts?
> 
> Also, I am not sure why theodicy does not cover this case as well.



First, I said ‘a’ curse, and not ‘the’ curse. The ultimate curse upon the reprobate is lake of fire to come. However, one of the temporal judgments that now rests upon them (notice the verb tenses in Romans 1. Wrath, curse, and judgment are not purely eschatological) is destruction of their families. They cannot be fruitful and multiply. Their quiver is without arrows. This is also manifest instrumentally through homosexuality, divorce, antipathy toward biblical family ethics, etc. 

As to the eternal fate of the aborted, I would agree with the WCF 10:3, “Elect infants, dying in infancy, are regenerated, and saved by Christ, through the Spirit, who works when, and where, and how He pleases: so also are all other elect persons who are incapable of being outwardly called by the ministry of the Word.”

As to Christian women who had pre-conversion abortions (of whom I know several), there is no reason to affirm that the lot of the reprobates is unique to them in every respect. Many elect women can taste this curse too. All A is B does not imply that all B is A. Just because the children of the Devil are a cursed with X does not mean that the children of God cannot have X also (even if they are not primarily and ultimately in view). 

A similar example would be thus: agrarian success is a covenant blessing (Lev 26). However, many outside of God’s redemptive covenant have agrarian success also. Their fields are ‘blessed,’ so to speak, even though they profane God’s covenant. All this to say, you cannot directly infer election from blessing nor reprobation from cursing. They are not neatly coterminous. Many elect woman may suffer the present pains of cursing upon the children of the Devil because prior to regeneration, they were under wrath also (Eph 2). For the season that the elect walk amongst the darkness, they share in its woe. 

In fact, elect aborted children are another example of this. Because of parental sin, they have no opportunity to be salt and light in the world, to labor for Christ, etc. Many of God’s chosen suffer the effects of cursing on others! On the other hand, reprobates gain much from the blessings upon the chosen. There is spill over in both blessing and cursing. Oh for the day when the wheat and weeds are separated and a great chasm will separate not only the children of God from the children of the Devil, but blessing and cursing. We are in the ‘already.’ The ‘not yet’ will be of far greater splendor.


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## steven-nemes (Oct 30, 2009)

No, God can still work all instances of evil for some greater good while not necessarily meaning good for the individuals involved.


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## Spinningplates2 (Oct 30, 2009)

What works are you speaking of in your first post? I think that many have answered this question very well. Some of them post here and would be glad to answer any questions youmight have. What books do you feel have not handled the topic well?


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