# How do you typically respond?



## blhowes (Aug 26, 2008)

Sometimes, people seem to get supplemental information about Jesus' return based on what they read in the newspapers, see on TV, etc. The things they glean from these sources supports their beliefs about end times.

Recently I spoke with a friend who was convinced that Jesus was going to return in the year 2011 or 2012. This was based on what he's learned about the shift in the polar ice caps and how scientists say the earth will be affected by the shift. He threw in some stuff about Armagedon (sp?) and some OT passage about mountains, and was convinced Jesus would return in 2011 or 2012. This apparently is important to him, on his mind a lot, as he spoke with my wife today and the same topic came up.

I tend to listen politely and try and throw in a positive comment (he tends to be negative, focused on the end time apostacy) or two about how God is in control regardless.

I'm sure many of you folks have come across people like this. How do you typically respond?


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## Kim G (Aug 26, 2008)

Say, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus!" and change the subject.

 Really, unless you're ready to get into a big debate, it's best not to continue the topic. (Of course, sometimes a big debate is necessary.)


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## FenderPriest (Aug 26, 2008)

I've never had this happen to me personally, but from those that I remember who were like this, and those I've engaged with second hand, they typically are not very focused on knowing God. So a helpful direction may be to ask him, instead of pandering to his soap box, how his soul is doing with God? Is he enjoying God? Is he growing in his understanding of the cross? and of grace? Is he growing under the Gospel ministry? Since these are the important issues, it may help to draw his attention to these first and not to his deception.

The cynical side of me wants to say something like, "Well, I'll see you in 2013!"


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## Scott1 (Aug 26, 2008)

I think it is easier to believe the negative than the positive. It takes more effort to have "faith" than to than to believe the positive, look for the best in people, and see good being worked out overall. In our flesh, it is easier to feel negative and critical about the life God has given us, and about other people.

Some people use their eschatology to justify this. It fits especially well in a modern dispensational premillennial view that sees everything getting worse, an evil political force arising and outsmarting God, a horrible tribulation that will last 7 years on our calendar, etc. It can fit into other views, too, but this one almost banks on it.

Things may well be getting worse in our country right now. Imagine, however, if you lived as a first century Christian in Rome when Christian's were being persecuted terribly- being mocked and tortured at public "games," being blamed in the media as a scapegoat for every societal problem, being lit on fire by the Emperor (Nero) as a form of entertainment! Things would have seemed horrible, getting worse yet they got better and eventually the entire Empire was transformed.

In some ways, we view relatively minor things as horrible omens and oppressions like $4 gallon gasoline. Now, only able to afford driving 18,000 instead of 21,000 miles a year. The whole economic system must be ready to implode at $4 per gallon... so the reasoning may go.

We selfishlessly view life as involving our own momentary comfort. It is as if history began when we were born and will end when we die and we stand with perfect knowledge of everything going on.

For Reformed Theology, look at how God works good out of what in itself is evil. War brings peace and freedom. Flood disasters bring help from people unknown to the victims who bring a Christian testimony with them. A death or tragedy is used to bring someone to Christ.

Bottom line, and I say this to myself, too here. We must learn to be thankful to God each day for what He gives us. We must ask Him for faith to believe His promises and Trust Him without regard to what the circumstances appear to us to be.

In the final analysis, some of what they say may actually happen but, as Christians, it doesn't give us license for ingratitude, speculation, or complacency.


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## R Harris (Aug 26, 2008)

The best way is to mention all of the failed predictions in the past - Edgar Whisenhunt, Hal Lindsey, William Miller in the 1840s, etc. There was some book written some time ago entitled "Armageddon NOW" by (I believe) Dwight Wilson. I have not read it, but I understand he has some real prediction gems in it.

Another way is a way RJ Rushdoony used to recommend. If someone really thinks Jesus is coming back on, say, February 1, 2012, then tell the person that if you (obviously) are still alive around that time, and he is still alive around that time, that you will make a deal now to show up on January 31, 2012 and take everything he has for 5 cents on the dollar. Then see if he takes the deal.


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## VictorBravo (Aug 26, 2008)

It happens occasionally. If I'm in a facetious mood I'll ask them how they know more than Jesus did when he was walking among men.


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## blhowes (Aug 26, 2008)

Kim G said:


> Say, "Even so, come, Lord Jesus!" and change the subject.
> 
> Really, unless you're ready to get into a big debate, it's best not to continue the topic. (Of course, sometimes a big debate is necessary.)


That sounds like a good way to handle it. Debating would be difficult, especially when he ties the polar ice cap shift with some (perhaps) obscure passage about mountains.


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## blhowes (Aug 26, 2008)

R Harris said:


> Another way is a way RJ Rushdoony used to recommend. If someone really thinks Jesus is coming back on, say, February 1, 2012, then tell the person that if you (obviously) are still alive around that time, and he is still alive around that time, that you will make a deal now to show up on January 31, 2012 and take everything he has for 5 cents on the dollar. Then see if he takes the deal.


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## Scott Shahan (Aug 26, 2008)

Bob,

Refer his attention to Matthew 24: 36 *“But concerning that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, *[2] but the Father only. 37 For as were the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, 39 and they were unaware until the flood came and swept them all away, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Then two men will be in the field; one will be taken and one left. 41 Two women will be grinding at the mill; one will be taken and one left. 42 Therefore, stay awake, *for you do not know on what day your Lord is coming. *43 But know this, that if the master of the house had known in what part of the night the thief was coming, he would have stayed awake and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 Therefore you also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.


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## Solus Christus (Aug 26, 2008)

I too haven't been in such a situation but I think I would go about what Kim said. Since we are called to always be ready to give a response to our faith, it seems to me that we're never too far away from a debate. If your friend really seems bothered or worried I think it would be a good opportunity to try to educate him. Of course only God can really make anyone truly understand but as a friend and Christian you can attempt to give him some peace of mind.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 26, 2008)

victorbravo said:


> It happens occasionally. If I'm in a facetious mood I'll ask them how they know more than Jesus did when he was walking among men.



That's great! I'll have to remember that one.


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## jwithnell (Aug 26, 2008)

Ask him if Christ returns on the date so predicted, will be be ready to face a holy God?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 26, 2008)

I gather that Harold Camping has predicted the "rapture" will occur on May 21, 2011 followed by tribulation and then return of Christ on October 20, 2011.


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## davidsuggs (Aug 26, 2008)

I guess I am in a fairly similiar situation. Most of the members of my family live and die by the Left Behind series. But I guess I simply must be in error because EVERYBODY knows that the majority proves the truth or falsehood of something.  Plus if it is written too, it must be true...


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## Solus Christus (Aug 26, 2008)

davidsuggs said:


> I guess I am in a fairly similiar situation. Most of the members of my family live and die by the Left Behind series. But I guess I simply must be in error because EVERYBODY knows that the majority proves the truth or falsehood of something.  Plus if it is written too, it must be true...



Wait you mean I don't need to worry about Nicolae Carpathia?


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## Josh G (Aug 26, 2008)

Solus Christus said:


> davidsuggs said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I am in a fairly similiar situation. Most of the members of my family live and die by the Left Behind series. But I guess I simply must be in error because EVERYBODY knows that the majority proves the truth or falsehood of something.  Plus if it is written too, it must be true...
> ...



 I don't know about that. He has his own wikipedia page, that is something to fear. 

Nicolae Carpathia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## rescuedbyLove (Aug 26, 2008)

Solus Christus said:


> davidsuggs said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I am in a fairly similiar situation. Most of the members of my family live and die by the Left Behind series. But I guess I simply must be in error because EVERYBODY knows that the majority proves the truth or falsehood of something.  Plus if it is written too, it must be true...
> ...


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## rescuedbyLove (Aug 26, 2008)

Josh G said:


> He has his own wikipedia page, that is something to fear.
> 
> Nicolae Carpathia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



 That's weird.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Aug 26, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> I gather that Harold Camping has predicted the "rapture" will occur on May 21, 2011 followed by tribulation and then return of Christ on October 20, 2011.



 Remember when he said the end was going to be 1994?


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## JohnV (Aug 27, 2008)

blhowes said:


> Sometimes, people seem to get supplemental information about Jesus' return based on what they read in the newspapers, see on TV, etc. The things they glean from these sources supports their beliefs about end times.
> 
> Recently I spoke with a friend who was convinced that Jesus was going to return in the year 2011 or 2012. This was based on what he's learned about the shift in the polar ice caps and how scientists say the earth will be affected by the shift. He threw in some stuff about Armagedon (sp?) and some OT passage about mountains, and was convinced Jesus would return in 2011 or 2012. This apparently is important to him, on his mind a lot, as he spoke with my wife today and the same topic came up.
> 
> ...



Bob:

My first thought as I read this is, "'Sure, everyone else is an apostate, but not me!' How many times have I heard that before?"

How I would respond, though, is not all that different from the way you responded. I'd have to hear the rest, I suppose. Usually I like to pick on some less central point and work my way toward the main point slowly. That way I'm not merely disagreeing so much as questioning. The main idea would be to point to honesty in all areas when talking about personal convictions. You can't really say you are "convicted" of something if you know deep down inside you're not really being honest with all the facts.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 27, 2008)

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> VirginiaHuguenot said:
> 
> 
> > I gather that Harold Camping has predicted the "rapture" will occur on May 21, 2011 followed by tribulation and then return of Christ on October 20, 2011.
> ...



Yes I do.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Aug 27, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Presbyterian Deacon said:
> 
> 
> > VirginiaHuguenot said:
> ...




I was station manager of Family Station's WCTF Vernon (CT) 1170 AM in 1988-89. I left for theological differences. [I had no idea how far astray Harold Camping would go, but he was already meandering from orthodoxy by January '89].

When Camping came out with his predictions about 1994 in '92 (or '93 don't remember which year exactly), someone asked me what I thought about my "old boss's predictions?" 

I said, "I'll be happy to discuss it in 1995!"


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## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2008)

Josh G said:


> I don't know about that. He has his own wikipedia page, that is something to fear.
> 
> Nicolae Carpathia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



After reading the Wiki page (and having NEVER read a LB novel), I see that NC is appointed the new pope during the tribulation, the sitting pope having been raptured away. I suppose this satisfies two fronts:

1) RCs will read the LB series, since the pope is actually considered to be a Christian.

2) Reformed folks will read the LB series, since it proves the pope really is the anti-Christ! 

Someone mentioned Edgar Whisenant earlier. He wrote _88 Reasons Jesus Will Return in 1988_ (I believe that was the title). I certainly am glad he was wrong, since I did not become a Christian until the fall of 1988. If EW had been correct, I would have been "left behind"!!!

Someone needs to invent a rapture smiley face... 

This is as close as I can get


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 27, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> Someone needs to invent a rapture smiley face...
> 
> This is as close as I can get




What about....


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## Marrow Man (Aug 27, 2008)

What's that supposed to be, a vacuum cleaner???


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 27, 2008)

They are Transport Rings. I take it you're not a Stargate fan.


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## Marrow Man (Aug 28, 2008)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> They are Transport Rings. I take it you're not a Stargate fan.





Nope! More of a Treker, and they never did teleport like that!


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