# Will Seminary kill me?



## Grafted In (May 14, 2010)

I have been accepted into the MDiv. program at Mid-America Reformed Seminary and, Lord willing, I will be starting their in the fall. I would like to hear from those men who have faced the rigors of seminary and hear any advice that they might have. 

How many hours a week did you average between classroom instruction and work outside of class? What effect did your seminary experience have on your family life, spiritual life, and physical well-being? What are somethings that I can do to make seminary the best experience that it can be?

I am sure that there are better questions that I could be asking. I look forward to your answers and advice. Thanks!!!


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## jayce475 (May 14, 2010)

What doesn't kill you makes you stronger


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## matt01 (May 14, 2010)

The seminary probably won't kill you, but the workload may.


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## N. Eshelman (May 14, 2010)

The horse is you. The stick is the Bible. I guess it's good if seminary kills you. Not I, but Christ that lives in me! 

Have fun, brother. It's HARD.


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## MarieP (May 14, 2010)

Pastor Eshelman, uh, beat me to it


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## Damon Rambo (May 15, 2010)

I don't know about everyone else, but the workload kills me. Had around 200 pages worth of writing assignments this semester...didn't think I was going to make it.

Thankfully for me, the last paper was a 20 page research paper on Charles Spurgeon, so it was a labor of love!


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## PuritanCovenanter (May 15, 2010)

Will Seminary kill me?

Not if you are dead already..... 

Everyone I know who went to good Seminaries came out well. The ones who went to bad seminaries suffered loss. It took them years to recover if they did. I have a lot to say about this if you want to know. I live south of you in Indianapolis. I have discipled people who went to good seminaries and bad ones. MidWest is good in my opinion.


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## N. Eshelman (May 15, 2010)

Seminary is very hard, but it is supposed to be. The life of the pastor is more difficult- so it's good training.


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## Kiffin (May 15, 2010)

Yes it will kill you. If that is your beautiful family in your avatar, you have a dimension that I didn't have to deal with--I'm sure it'll make things tough at times. I actually graduate tomorrow (for the moment) and the advice I can give you is stay on top of your syllabi. Make arbitrary due dates for some of your papers so that they won't all overlap at the end of the semester when they're all due.

Honestly, for me, there were times where I lost focus and just treated my classes merely as academic. It'll be easy to fall into that trap. Remember that these classes are not just academic, but spiritual as well. What kept me sane was a close fellowship with a few guys that always encouraged and pushed me--MARS is a good size to befriend and to get close to everyone.

As always, pray pray pray.

Blessings,


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## DMcFadden (May 15, 2010)

Each seminary is different as are the reading and writing requirements. If you want to be a decent husband and father, strongly consider elongating your seminary so as not to burn the candle at both ends (and the middle!). Of course, if you are independently wealthy and don't need to work, the three year plan might work great! 

Some us tried to work nearly full time and get through school quickly (2.3 yrs) at the same time. It ONLY worked due to an undergraduate degree in religious studies and no kids until the end of school. I would strongly counsel you to take longer than 3 yrs for any number of reasons.


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## chbrooking (May 15, 2010)

Come on guys, it wasn't THAT bad. I enjoyed it. Yes, it's a lot of work. But it's not like the work isn't fun. Maybe I was a new enough Christian that everything was still super exciting, but I hope I'd still find it that way. I've often thought of going back and auditing some classes -- even the same ones I took before -- since I think I'd even get more out of them now.

---------- Post added at 07:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:31 AM ----------

I also would advocate taking longer -- it allows you to focus more deeply and carefully on each thing, rather than keeping too many VERY important balls in the air at once. Going too fast is probably my only regret.


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## SolaScriptura (May 15, 2010)

I agree with Clark... it wasn't THAT bad. 

Unless one is a simpleton, the classwork won't, by itself, wear one out. Instead, as I saw many times, what wears folks out isn't the academic load, per se... it is the academic load PLUS having to work a job 20+ hrs a week PLUS church involvement PLUS trying to be a part of your family PLUS dealing with an angry spouse that you spend so much time studying and you're dirt poor and she has to get a job... that combination of factors is the "seminary experience" and IT is what can drive a man to despair. 

Me, I took 4 years to do a 3 year MDiv. Plus, I had a sweet employment situation. 

For me, I enjoy the academic environment. I look forward to going back.


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## Willem van Oranje (May 15, 2010)

Grafted In said:


> I have been accepted into the MDiv. program at Mid-America Reformed Seminary and, Lord willing, I will be starting their in the fall. I would like to hear from those men who have faced the rigors of seminary and hear any advice that they might have.
> 
> How many hours a week did you average between classroom instruction and work outside of class? What effect did your seminary experience have on your family life, spiritual life, and physical well-being? What are somethings that I can do to make seminary the best experience that it can be?
> 
> I am sure that there are better questions that I could be asking. I look forward to your answers and advice. Thanks!!!


 
Great, say hi to Nathan for me when you get up there!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 15, 2010)

Chaplain Ben

While the _content_ was poor the workload was equitable, if not more, than most Reformed seminaries while I attended Pittsburgh Theological Seminary. 

It would have been easier (and I would have gotten better grades) if I had not the trouble of trying to learn proper Reformed and biblical theology on the side while I was reading Barth, Brunner, Torrance, Pannenberg, et al during the day and defending Biblical Christianity in the hallways.


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## Skyler (May 15, 2010)

Seminary doesn't kill people. Seminary professors do.

>.>

<.<


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## Cato (May 15, 2010)

If your into that try Ranger training!


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## Damon Rambo (May 15, 2010)

Kiffin said:


> Yes it will kill you. If that is your beautiful family in your avatar, you have a dimension that I didn't have to deal with--I'm sure it'll make things tough at times. I actually graduate tomorrow (for the moment) and the advice I can give you is stay on top of your syllabi. Make arbitrary due dates for some of your papers so that they won't all overlap at the end of the semester when they're all due.
> 
> Honestly, for me, there were times where I lost focus and just treated my classes merely as academic. It'll be easy to fall into that trap. Remember that these classes are not just academic, but spiritual as well. What kept me sane was a close fellowship with a few guys that always encouraged and pushed me--MARS is a good size to befriend and to get close to everyone.
> 
> ...


 
This is the best post here. I have found that something that helps me immensely, is getting a jump on assignments, when possible. For example, if the professor gives us the info on the assignments a few days before the class actually starts (some do not), via blackboard, or registration handout, I will actually start working on my writing/research before the first day of class. This REALLY helps near the end of the course, when you have papers coming due from several different courses.

Also, put aside one hour a day for wifey. I cannot stress this enough. If I spend just one hour with my wife, in the evening after the kids go to bed, just laying around talking, or watching TV (or a little extra time for a movie once in a while), I have noticed she is much more amicable to my hours of study where I pay no attention to her (or anything else). If you do not do this, fights will ensue!

Also: Saturday afternoon is my Kids time.


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## CatechumenPatrick (May 15, 2010)

My brother is finishing an MDiv at Mid-America (graduating in one week). From what he says, it could very well be one of the most rigorous seminaries around (and he went there with a solid two years of Greek and some Hebrew background). The work load is incredible, especially if you have kids and are not independently well-off. As my pastor likes to say, seminary does not teach you how to be a careful reader or an esoteric expert, but an overwhelmed pastor.


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt (May 15, 2010)

Skyler said:


> Seminary doesn't kill people. Seminary professors do.
> 
> >.>
> 
> <.<



But if there are no professors to kill you, then there is no seminary.

The hardest ones are where you will find the best experience in any higher education situation. You learn a lot more because you have to bust your butt to know it all, rather than waltz through. The amount of time spent learning the material correlates directly with how long and how well you know it.

Though, be prepared to be labeled insane if anyone finds out. I have done this in undergrad school, doing it again twofold this Fall, and will continue to do so at every opportunity. My parents are probably wondering if I'm on drugs for intentionally doing something like this.

I'll make an exception for biblical languages as well as any courses you can test out of. That kind of knowledge you may have learned previously. It would be easy no matter what.


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## greenbaggins (May 15, 2010)

MARS is definitely one of the more rigorous seminaries around, and may even be the most rigorous. Stretching out the education to four years (or maybe even five) will allow you to enjoy your courses more, and will help prevent you from reading the required reading too quickly. I think I might even have gone for five years in my situation, except that I wanted as much seminary out of the way as possible after my first year (I got married after my first year). I highly recommend reading this book before you go to seminary. The Warfield alone is worth the price of admission.


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## Calvinist Cowboy (May 15, 2010)

Big thing is to learn some Greek and/or Hebrew beforehand. Even then, you got to expect that it will be hard. It's what you're going to school for - to be challenged.


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## Andres (May 16, 2010)

I recently visited Redeemer Seminary where I am planning to attend. I was told by the President of the school to plan on 2 hours of study a week for every hour of credit you take. For example if you take a 3 hour class (which most are), then you should allot a minimum of 6 hours a week for study for that class. The exception is Greek/Hebrew which are closer to 4 hours/wk study for each credit hour. So if one is a full-time student with three 3 hour courses per semester, they should plan on 18- 24 hours of studying a week outside of classroom.


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## SemperEruditio (May 17, 2010)

Andres said:


> I recently visited Redeemer Seminary where I am planning to attend. I was told by the President of the school to plan on 2 hours of study a week for every hour of credit you take. For example if you take a 3 hour class (which most are), then you should allot a minimum of 6 hours a week for study for that class. The exception is Greek/Hebrew which are closer to 4 hours/wk study for each credit hour. So if one is a full-time student with three 3 hour courses per semester, they should plan on 18- 24 hours of studying a week outside of classroom.


 
Only problem is it never works out that way in the real world. 

As others have said it ain't seminary but all the extras. Just like the Gospel...it gives life but not when you add extras. My MDiv will come from a liberal school but the majority of my electives (languages & Bible) are coming from RTS. I was in a nontraditional program where we attend classes on Friday evening and Saturday morning. Since I live in Maryland and the school is in Richmond, VA it has made for a lot of driving. The school work is school work but I was not prepared for all the other extras. The idea is that you should graduate and be ready to minister so during seminary you will have internships as well as church duties to perform. You're also a father and husband and you start to see where it gets complicated. 

My best advice is to be very disciplined with your time. This way you can spend time with the family and your wife and not lose them in the process. Sacrifice hours of sleep if it means you spend more time with the family. Kids don't understand why you're sacrificing time away from them and after a while wives question it as well. Remember that your first ministry is to your family so become an expert at time-management because from what I can see and hear from pastors time-management is crucial once in ministry.

Seminary is a great, fun ride and you will meet some people that you will probably remain friends with for the rest of your life...at least I pray some of the ones I met remain my friends. There might be some people you meet which will have you question their Christianity and others when they say "I love the Lord" you want to ask them to define "Lord." Yet and still it is a great time and it's great because it is so challenging.

Oh before I forget most people for one reason or another have their driest time spiritually while at seminary. The reason for this is that the Bible becomes another textbook and prayer is only for help on exams or papers. Don't be that guy. Keep up your devotional life.

I guess that's all for now.


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## RandPhoenix (May 17, 2010)

It might also help if you've had a Bible college degree. Maybe. At least it gets you used to thinking theologically often and writing theologically. 

Though I didn't exactly go to the best Bible college out there (Trinity College of Florida), I value the time I had there mainly because I learned fast to know what I believe and why I believed it. Especially because I spent a good bit of time as one of the few Calvinists and VERY few Reformed leaning students. The school was\is interdenominational, but dispensational in theology. Ick.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 17, 2010)

SemperEruditio said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > I recently visited Redeemer Seminary where I am planning to attend. I was told by the President of the school to plan on 2 hours of study a week for every hour of credit you take. For example if you take a 3 hour class (which most are), then you should allot a minimum of 6 hours a week for study for that class. The exception is Greek/Hebrew which are closer to 4 hours/wk study for each credit hour. So if one is a full-time student with three 3 hour courses per semester, they should plan on 18- 24 hours of studying a week outside of classroom.
> ...


 
Are you attending Union?


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## SemperEruditio (May 17, 2010)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> SemperEruditio said:
> 
> 
> > Andres said:
> ...


 
Yes but not the Union you're thinking of. I'm attending Virginia Union not Union Theological...not much difference theologically but even though they are only 1.2 miles away from each other the differences demographically are staggering.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 17, 2010)

SemperEruditio said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > SemperEruditio said:
> ...


 
I can only imagine. I would rather go to Virginia Union. 

Totally Off-Topic but a story on Union PSCE. 

I had a friend in my old PC(USA) Presbytery who was seminary shopping and he went to an open-house weekend at Union and the student body threw a keg party for all the visiting prospective students.


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## Grafted In (May 18, 2010)

RandPhoenix said:


> It might also help if you've had a Bible college degree. Maybe. At least it gets you used to thinking theologically often and writing theologically.
> 
> Though I didn't exactly go to the best Bible college out there (Trinity College of Florida), I value the time I had there mainly because I learned fast to know what I believe and why I believed it. Especially because I spent a good bit of time as one of the few Calvinists and VERY few Reformed leaning students. The school was\is interdenominational, but dispensational in theology. Ick.


 
I did my undergrad at Moody Bible Institute, one of dispensationalisms motherships, and majored in Biblical Languages. This should help a great deal. Moody did a great job teaching me Greek, but I left everything else on the side of the road.


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## SolaScriptura (May 18, 2010)

Grafted In said:


> I did my undergrad at Moody Bible Institute, one of dispensationalisms motherships...


 
Me too! When did you graduate?


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## Grafted In (May 18, 2010)

SolaScriptura said:


> Grafted In said:
> 
> 
> > I did my undergrad at Moody Bible Institute, one of dispensationalisms motherships...
> ...


 
Last Saturday! How about you? My wife graduated from there in 2000.


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## TomVols (May 18, 2010)

Will seminary kill you? No. Practical pointers?
- Keep your devotional life active. Keep your heart hot. Let your work be devotional. Some people try to divorce your workload from your devotional life. That's impossible. Let the word take root whether you're reading in your "quiet time" or for preparing for tomorrow's Theology of the Psalter review
- Don't forget the church. Chapel is no substitute. 
- Work little, if any, outside seminary. Live on beans and forget buying a new IPad. You're at seminary to train for ministry. I can name scores of fellow seminarians who got little to nothing out of it because they felt they had to work so hard at an outside job. I missed out on lots of classes that I should've had because my work schedule wouldn't allow it. 
- Don't forget the family, if you're married. Some men will choose the _Institutes_ over an evening with the wife, but not those whose marriages please God and their spouse. 
- Blessed are the balanced. 

I could go on and on......


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