# Southwestern Baptist



## Notthemama1984 (Nov 21, 2008)

Ok, so I am curious about something. More and more I am feeling lied to my entire Christian life when it comes to major sections of the Christian faith. It is one thing to be dogmatic about one's position, but I did not even know other positions existed. The level of Christian education is beyond low (I even had a pastor admit to me once that he avoids academic commentaries because they speak over his head). The interesting thing is that each and every pastor that I grew up with graduated from Southwestern Baptist Theological.

So I ask.......

Is Southwestern Baptist that bad off or am I just unlucky about who I got as pastors?


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## cbryant (Nov 21, 2008)

It may just be the pastors you had rather than the institution as a whole. I have heard a lot of things and read a lot of things in conjunction with the current administration of the seminary that I didn't like (Arminianism / Landmarkism, if you can mesh those two your smarter than I) but I have known some pretty sharp people that have came out of SWBTS. I think there are attitudes in the SBC that think that if you're studying your not ministering. I have a friend and a graduate of SWBTS who kinda has this attitude, but I do not think it is limited to one institution. When I was in the SBC I found this to be the case. BTW, I am a former SB but now am Presbyterian (PCA).

HTH,

cbryant


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## smhbbag (Nov 21, 2008)

> Is Southwestern Baptist that bad off or am I just unlucky about who I got as pastors?



In my understanding, it may have more to do with the time, rather than the place, of their graduation. Anti-intellectualism, liberalism, and feelings-based Arminianism used to mix very oddly and powerfully in SBC seminaries until the relatively recent past. Different places may have had different mixtures or emphases within those errors, but all of them made an appearance at all the seminaries.


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## bened (Nov 21, 2008)

Well I "are" a graduate of SWBTS (and New Orleans seminary), and the fact I graduated more "laude cum soon" than magna cum laude wasn't the fault of any of my profs - one of which, the late, great NT scholar, Curtis Vaughan, was a staunch Calvinist.

SWBTS was not then and isn't today the greatest or top seminary academically, but it's also far from the least. Hence, I think the previous posts regarding time and culture contexts are well-taken. 

One thing that's lost among many, especially outside of southern baptist life, is that with all of the numbers and resources of our convention (it's not a denomination), the majority of SBC congregations have about 100 in attendance and many of those probably less in total membership. And those churches are located in rural or small-town areas in the south.

The church I pastor, though "medium" in size, is in a small, almost rural town that grows more peanuts per capita than anywhere else in the country. And when someone gives you a ride somewhere they don't take you, they "carry" you.

So, in this case, don't blame the school, though not totally absolved, as much as the students.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 21, 2008)

Even though it is perceived as one of the more anti-Calvinist seminaries, it is probably on average better now than 30 years ago. Some of the problems mentioned in the OP can be blamed on the students themselves as Ben noted, but also consider that those (even though they may personally be "conservative") who graduated 20 years or more ago were largely educated by liberal professors.


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## Ivan (Nov 21, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> Even though it is perceived as one of the more anti-Calvinist seminaries, it is probably on average better now than 30 years ago. Some of the problems mentioned in the OP can be blamed on the students themselves as Ben noted, but also consider that those (even though they may personally be "conservative") who graduated 20 years or more ago were largely educated by liberal professors.



I attended SWBTS at the end of Naylor's tenure and the beginning of Dilday's. Those were interesting days (1978-1981). SWBTS was perhaps the most conservative SB seminary at the time, but there were certainly liberal professors at SWBTS at the time I attended. I didn't avoid all of them. I think they helped understand their position and sharpen my beliefs. 

The liberals are gone now. My impression is that SWBTS isn't as academic as it use to be, but there are good professors there. Again, I think it's more the students that give the bad impression about SWBTS then the school itself. 

Although I graduated from SWBTS, my first choice of a seminary these days is Southern...by far...for obvious reasons. Still, I respect SWBTS and have a special love for the place. My three years there were some of the best years of my life.


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## CovenantalBaptist (Nov 21, 2008)

Greg Welty is an assistant professor there and a member at an ARBCA founding church (that is also well known in the Founders movement). 

Greg is well known for his famous (or infamous depending on your POV) Critical Evaluation of Paedobaptism written while he was a student at Westminster Theological Seminary. A thorough-going Van-Tillian, Greg is a capable apologist. While I was surprised to see him at SWBTS (not known for its Calvinism), he at least is proof that one can survive there as a solid 5 pointer.


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## bened (Nov 21, 2008)

I was at SWBTS when Dilday forced his ouster.

Having CNN on your campus, complete with a Baylor grad contingent protesting and then walking into class w/my systematic theo. prof sporting a black armband - I kid you not - that was a time.

Good perspective, Ivan, and I didn't always avoid the "moderate" profs either. Said black arm-banded prof was one but was also one of the kindest teachers I had. 

My philosophy religion prof was also in that same boat. He didn't believe the axe head floated among other interesting takes, but Dr. Putt (sp) was both sharp and interesting.

All of the sbc sems are now solidly and safely conservative, though all but Southern sem reject reformed theology. 

Southeastern has proven to be the most irenic and even-handed in the debate, however.

Chris' post reminds me that there are reformed profs and students, especially, in each of the seminaries - even Liberty.


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## Ivan (Nov 21, 2008)

bened said:


> All of the sbc sems are now solidly and safely conservative, though all but Southern sem reject reformed theology.
> 
> Southeastern has proven to be the most irenic and even-handed in the debate, however.



Danny Akin, president at SEBTS, and David Dockery, president of Union University in Jackson, TN, a Southern Baptist college (where I probably would attend if heading to college) are both men in the SBC who attempt to bridge the gap between Arminians and Calvinists. Not an easy task. I do respect both men. 

Sadly, Southern is the only SBC seminary that comes close to accepting reformed theology. There are those on staff who are not Calvinist. I don't want anyone here to make application to Southern thinking it's pure in its reformed theology. It's not, but it's the closest thing the SBC has (and better than some supposed reformed seminary would be my guess).


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