# Adult Baptism and Church Membership - Specifically conversion



## Theoretical (May 24, 2006)

I have a friend who is an unbaptized believer (It's hard for me to classify, but with some things said, I'd stick her in this category - maybe I'm wrong) - she seems to have the most essential doctrines, particularly those about sin and grace through faith (no works period) and basic nature of God questions, down fairly well and desires biblical teaching.

The problem is that, coming from an apathetic religious background, she (this is the person I mentioned in this thread) only has received a shallow, yet apparently fairly sound (given her affirmations and cognition of the beliefs in question) introduction to the faith. She does not understand the need for church membership, and she doesn't understand the need for Baptism. On the former, she doesn't understand how membership differs a lot from active involvement in a church. Her view of the church (mainly because I think this was that of her mentor) is that it is only where one goes to be directly taught about God and that worship is really out of place there - it should be a private matter.

For the latter, I think a few of the stronger texts on Baptism (Some of the WCF's proof texts come to mind, as well as those of Cornelius's household in Acts 10) would probably - given her attitude to other teaching - convince her of that need, as she (a) admits her weak knowledge and (b) has said she's wanting to learn and believe if the Bible says something contrary to her previous knowledge. I think this and the former might be received well if framed as the next major step in a Christian's walk, and that if she believes these things are indeed essentials and a way to validate her faith before God and the world.

My question comes down to this matter: how is adult (aka convert) baptism handled in the PCA churches? Is it directly tied to church membership in that particular congregation as far as a process of baptism being the membership process for that person? Obviously, this element depends on her recognizing the need to be baptized, but I have hope she will, given that she has already received and accepted FAR more spiritual knowledge than I would have expected from someone with that background.

Basically, I guess what I am trying to say is that a lack of baptism seems to be a more fundamental doctrinal matter than the ecclesiology problems in the sense that correcting the baptism (particularly a Covenant understanding of it) will likely make working on the ecclesiology much more easily understood. If, in conversations with her, she agrees that she needs to be baptized, what next? And, am I on the right track on this matter?


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## Puddleglum (May 24, 2006)

Baptism and church membership go together . . . I don't think you'd find a PCA that would be willing to baptize without having church membership go along with it. 
If she agrees with the need to be baptized, I'd then show her how baptism & joining the church seem to go hand-in-hand in Scripture . . . also, if she's open to pursuing being baptized, the only way for her to do that in PCA would be to start their membership prep, so she'd get some doctrinal straightening-out in that process anyways . . .


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## BobVigneault (May 24, 2006)

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to them, for they are keeping watch over your souls, as those who will have to give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with groaning, for that would be of no advantage to you.

One of the weightiest and most direct scriptures that speak to church membership is this verse from Hebrews. Her biggest doctrinal weakness may be a failure to understand the full authority that scriptures has over her and consequently the need to submit to the elders of the church. I understand what you are saying in drawing a distinction between doctrine and ecclesiology but it all practicality they are intertwined. Ecclessiology is doctrinal. Doctrinally speaking she ought to be a baptized member in submission to the elders.


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## Theoretical (May 24, 2006)

Most interesting/valuable corrective points...I continue to be amazed by how different (in a good way) and intertwined Reformed thought is from my old beliefs and denomination. There is so much more depth and there is an intellectual unity in this theology I'm only beginning to realize. Oh, Bob, thanks for the verse reference on Hebrews - a very strong verse indeed.


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## BobVigneault (May 24, 2006)

I sure can relate Scott. Twenty years ago I was an elder in an EV Free Church in New England. Since then I have held nearly every office in the church. I have been an interim pastor in a baptist church and I've preached in many different denoms. For thirty years my wife has been the Lord's greatest means of my sanctification process. She grew up in the church, her dad was a pastor as is one of her brothers.

Two years ago we started attending an OPC Church. When we met with the pastor he was surprised to find out my wife wasn't baptized. Her dad didn't believe in it. Our new pastor gently suggested that she shouldn't be taking communion. We were thinking, "WHAT THE HECK!!! THIS IS STILL AMERICA ISN'T IT!!!!? ANYONE CAN TAKE COMMUNION!

We left the church for awhile but didn't find anything but seeker sensitive arminian churches. We returned and decided we would submit to the elders and began seeking membership. My wife refrained from taking communion for the first time in her life. She cried the first time. But we now understand the importance of fulfilling the scriptural requirements.

She was baptized just a few months ago. We've learned so much but it sure was difficult in the beginning.

[Edited on 5-24-2006 by BobVigneault]


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## Ivan (May 24, 2006)

One of the disturbing things that I've seen in the SBC of late is that some of our churches are baptizing people without them becoming members. I'm not sure what their reasoning is for such an act but it runs counter to all that I was taught.


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## panicbird (Aug 14, 2006)

What works (articles, books, etc.) are there on the connection between baptism and church membership? I am especially interested in the following questions:
- Is baptism required for church membership?
- If someone is baptized in a particular church, are they automatically made a member of said church?
- What sort of baptisms are allowable (i.e., Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, liberal Protestant)?

Lon


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## Kevin (Aug 14, 2006)

Pastor Lon,
Yes, yes, & all (trinitarian baptisms).


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## jaybird0827 (Aug 14, 2006)

Some relevant questions from the _Shorter Catechism_



> Q91: How do the sacraments become effectual means of salvation?
> A91: The sacraments become effectual means of salvation, not from any virtue in them, or in him that doth administer them; but only by the blessing of Christ, and the working of his Spirit in them that by faith receive them.
> 
> Q92: What is a sacrament?
> ...



Emphasis mine. Proof text for that which is emphasized here.


> Acts 2:38-42. Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
> 
> Acts 22:16. And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.
> 
> ...


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