# Biblical view of pets



## Andres (Aug 28, 2011)

How are we to view pets from a biblical worldview? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a pets, but where should the line be drawn? For that matter, where did the concept of keeping pets even come from? I can't recall reading of anyone in scripture having them. Should we love our pets? I know we don't have agape or eros love for them but does it fall under phileo love? Is it wrong to care about a pet to the point where we are upset over them? They don't have souls, so we shouldn't mourn for them the same way we do when a person dies, right? BTW, I have a little yorkie for a pet. I enjoy his company and I imagine I would miss him if he was gone, but I couldn't see myself being upset on the level I would be when a human dies, or if I did, I think I'd feel guilty about it. Curious to hear others thoughts.


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## elnwood (Aug 28, 2011)

Adam had lots of pets. The Old Testament has laws regarding treating livestock well. Also, the Scripture has a lot to say about shepherds who love their sheep.


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## Pergamum (Aug 28, 2011)

I say there's gotta be sumthin' wrong with breeding dogs to be smaller and stupider instead of breeding them to work smarter and harder. If you carry a dog as an accessory like a hand-bag, there's sumthin' wrong with you.

Also, when some folks let their dogs lick them on the face, there's gotta be some sort of OT judicial punishment that we can bring back to punish those transgressors (I'll turn theonomist just for that reason if we can find enough general equity in one of the laws to stone those folks)....

Also, there is a lady in my sending church, a sweet lady, who campaigns to rescue dogs from the pound. There is another sweet lady, from another supporting church, that campaigns to give food to the homeless..... now, whereas they see two problems, I see an opportunity for these two problems to cancel each other out!


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## py3ak (Aug 28, 2011)

The nearest I can find in Scripture is the man in Nathan's parable who clearly had a particular fondness for his one sheep. But it is close enough to allow me to recognize my hatred of pets as a natural and just antipathy, perhaps, but not as an enforceable law.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Aug 28, 2011)

I am not totally sure this allegorical example would have been a "pet" as we think of them, but it sounds pretty close, and causes me to think from the outrage of King David that there were "pet type" relationships known back then:

2 Sam 12:

[12:1] And the LORD sent Nathan to David. He came to him and said to him, “There were two men in a certain city, the one rich and the other poor. [2] The rich man had very many flocks and herds, [3] but the poor man had nothing but one little ewe lamb, which he had bought. And he brought it up, and it grew up with him and with his children. It used to eat of his morsel and drink from his cup and lie in his arms, and it was like a daughter to him. [4] Now there came a traveler to the rich man, and he was unwilling to take one of his own flock or herd to prepare for the guest who had come to him, but he took the poor man's lamb and prepared it for the man who had come to him.” [5] Then David's anger was greatly kindled against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the LORD lives, the man who has done this deserves to die, [6] and he shall restore the lamb fourfold, because he did this thing, and because he had no pity.”

(2 Samuel 12:1-6 ESV)

I train competitive retrievers 6 days a week, and love dogs dearly. But I accept that I will not see my dogs in the Kingdom, the way many of the "new agers" expect. I see nothing at all in the scriptures to indicate that Christ died other than for the elect, which would include animals which are part of the fallen creation, in my opinion. 

I grieve when one passes, because I love them, and I have been responsible for them. But nothing like I grieve when a loved one has died.


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## Pergamum (Aug 28, 2011)

I expect that animals might inhabit the New Heaven and New Earth; for Adam started out in a Garden and Revelation brings us back to those images of Paradise. If our fallen creation can be so beautiful, I can only imagine what a restored world will look like! And it would seem odd that such a world will be empty of life.


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## Edward (Aug 28, 2011)

Andres said:


> I enjoy his company and I imagine I would miss him if he was gone, but I couldn't see myself being upset on the level I would be when a human dies, or if I did, I think I'd feel guilty



I think you might have it backwards. When a beloved pet dies, it is gone, So it is natural to mourn it. But when a human dies, if they are Christian, our sorrow for our loss can be offset by the knowledge that they will be resurrected.


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## TimV (Aug 28, 2011)

Nathan is one, and there is another in Isaiah:



> The wolf shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the young goat, and the calf and the lion and the fattened calf together; and a little child shall lead them.



And another in James:



> For every kind of beast and bird, of reptile and sea creature, can be tamed and has been tamed by mankind,




---------- Post added at 06:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:30 PM ----------

Ed, I think you can tell a kid that if in Heaven everyone will be happy, then if the kid's pet coming back to life will make them happy that pet will be there. It's an honest answer if phrased that way.


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## Tim (Aug 29, 2011)

Here is one thought:

Pets are _not_ part of your family, because family is biblically defined. I always feel weird when I receive a greeting card that is signed by the mother, father, children, and the dog!


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## FCC (Aug 29, 2011)

Have we been influenced by the anthropomorphism of animals in our culture? When we deal with pets we often times treat them as if they were subhuman and ascribe to them the same thoughts and emotions that only humans are capable of having. Animals were not created in the image of God and thus do not have the same characteristics that man possesses. I know that I have been unduly influenced by the Mickey Mouses and Bugs Bunny's of the world and often catch myself thinking of my pet as having human thoughts and emotions, which they do not.

Given that thought, we are taught to care for and provide for our animals in the Scriptures. "A righteous man regardeth the life of his beast: but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel." Pr. 12:10 for example. I don't see anything inherently sinful in having pets, unless they become a preoocupation for us. In the United States we spend millions, if not billions, in pet care every year. We give them presents on birthdays, holidays and such. We even have pet health insurance if we so desire! In fact, people will include them in their wills, not merely for their continued care, but as recepients of an inheritance! We must guard carefully our hearts and treat our animals with care and regard their life, but not act as if they were human.


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## Andres (Aug 29, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> I expect that animals might inhabit the New Heaven and New Earth; for Adam started out in a Garden and Revelation brings us back to those images of Paradise. If our fallen creation can be so beautiful, I can only imagine what a restored world will look like! And it would seem odd that such a world will be empty of life.



I agree that we'll have animals in the new Kingdom for the same reasons Perg's given above. Although I'm not sure if that means that we'll have our exact pets that we have here. But then again, I really don't think it will matter. I can't picture anyone getting to heaven and then being upset that Fluffy isn't there.

---------- Post added at 08:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 AM ----------




FCC said:


> Have we been influenced by the anthropomorphism of animals in our culture? When we deal with pets we often times treat them as if they were subhuman and ascribe to them the same thoughts and emotions that only humans are capable of having. Animals were not created in the image of God and thus do not have the same characteristics that man possesses. I know that I have been unduly influenced by the Mickey Mouses and Bugs Bunny's of the world and often catch myself thinking of my pet as having human thoughts and emotions, which they do not.



You're right animals aren't created in the image of God, but they do seem to have emotions. My dog sure does get happy when I get home and sad when I admonish him for something.

---------- Post added at 08:57 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:51 AM ----------




FCC said:


> In the United States we spend millions, if not billions, in pet care every year. We give them presents on birthdays, holidays and such. We even have pet health insurance if we so desire! In fact, people will include them in their wills, not merely for their continued care, but as recepients of an inheritance! We must guard carefully our hearts and treat our animals with care and regard their life, but not act as if they were human.



This is some of what I am wondering about. Is it wrong to spend money on our pets? I could see someone argue it's poor stewardship because we could use that money for something else. On the other hand, if we have pets, we should be responsible and give them proper care. We have to buy them food and we should get them vaccinated, right? But how much is too much to spend on a dog?


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## Pergamum (Aug 29, 2011)

National Review magazine once had an editorial about how there is a relationship between the civilization of a nation and how it treats it dogs. I think the point was how Muslim cultures are not often crazy about dogs. Muhammad preferred cats it seems...


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## Phil D. (Aug 29, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> National Review magazine once had an editorial about how there is a relationship between the civilization of a nation and how it treats it dogs. I think the point was how Muslim cultures are not often crazy about dogs. Muhammad preferred cats it seems...



Well, let's look at how the Bible typically represents dogs.


Like a dog that returns to his vomit is a fool who repeats his folly. (Prov. 26:11)

Look out for the dogs, look out for the evildoers, look out for those who mutilate the flesh. (Phil. 3:2)

And he answered, “It is not right to take the children's bread and throw it to the dogs.” (Matt. 15:26)​

So evidently dogs were not well thought of in ancient Hebrew culture.

On the other hand we read,


And one of the elders saith unto me, "Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof." (Rev. 5:5)​


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## Elizabeth (Aug 29, 2011)

I don't think it's wrong to spend reasonable money on pets. Hubby and I always say our dogs are our hobby. We don't do vacations, eat out much, buy fancy clothing. We do have two dogs who eat a lot of kibble, though and need vet visits. 

Could that $$ be better spent? Well, I guess. So could the funds that people spend on sports/movie tickets/eating out/vacations/fancy clothing. If you look at keeping pets as a hobby, it's no worse than any other hobby. Can folks overdo? Of course.

On the grief issue, I think it took me several days to stop getting teary over our good German shepherd Anna's death some months ago. After those weepy days, I found a sense of thankfulness for all the joy and companionship and protection that good girl gave us. I think of her often, but don't grieve for her like one would a human. 

Animals in heaven? I don't see why not. I agree that it would seem odd to not have them there, in the new creation. Maybe not specific animals we have known, but animals uncorrupted by the fall. Could be quite glorious! Whatever is, will be right.


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## Pergamum (Aug 29, 2011)

Phil D. said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > National Review magazine once had an editorial about how there is a relationship between the civilization of a nation and how it treats it dogs. I think the point was how Muslim cultures are not often crazy about dogs. Muhammad preferred cats it seems...
> ...




Hmmm, we'd better point that out to National Review and other Neo-Cons since many of them seem very pro-Hebrew...


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## Andres (Aug 29, 2011)

Elizabeth said:


> I don't think it's wrong to spend reasonable money on pets. Hubby and I always say our dogs are our hobby. We don't do vacations, eat out much, buy fancy clothing. We do have two dogs who eat a lot of kibble, though and need vet visits.
> 
> Could that $$ be better spent? Well, I guess. So could the funds that people spend on sports/movie tickets/eating out/vacations/fancy clothing. If you look at keeping pets as a hobby, it's no worse than any other hobby. Can folks overdo? Of course.
> 
> ...



 Thank you Elizabeth for this well thought-out response. I seem to line up with your thoughts when it comes to pets.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Aug 29, 2011)

I am not sure there is an objective standard on "how much is too much" to spend on a pet, other than are you still tithing off the gross, and taking care of your family. I know more than one person who has sold a young, Field Champion labrador for $200,000.00. I love my dogs, but is someone offered me close to a quarter million for one, they would be out the door in a heartbeat. Those folks would think NOTHING of spending $6,000.00 for repair of a blown out knee on a dog. Its love of a pet, its also protection of an investment at that level. They also have the resources to play what is essentially at the NFL level with competitive dogs. I know others who have put dogs to sleep over the cost of a $300.00 proceedure. I do not have pet insurance on mine, but I will carry a stop loss on my next youngster in case of a blown knee, etc.


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## Andres (Aug 29, 2011)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> I love my dogs, but is someone offered me close to a quarter million for one, they would be out the door in a heartbeat.



 Oh yes, most definitely!


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## FCC (Aug 29, 2011)

I agree Andres, animals do have some emotions. But are they the same as those experienced by humans? I am not sure and have not really studied the issue enough to dogmatically say one way or the other! 

I think we have to be very careful in our treatment of pets especially in the financial realm. I don't think we could come up with a hard and fast rule on how much is too much but some of the things I have read and heard floor me! To spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on an animal is not good stewardship (In my humble opinion). A routine vet visit, etc., no problem. We have decided that when our cat gets ill no extended medical treatments for her, she will be mercifully put to sleep. We watch our in-laws dote on their pets as if they were their children, which sometimes is astounding! They didn't give their own children or grandchildren the kind of attention that their pets receive now. It is sad and a source of grief to the children.


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## Constantlyreforming (Aug 29, 2011)

Tim said:


> Here is one thought:
> 
> Pets are _not_ part of your family, because family is biblically defined. I always feel weird when I receive a greeting card that is signed by the mother, father, children, and the dog!



I completely understand.


regards,

Ethan Beckler, Mia (Jack Russell Terrier RUFF!) and Koi

---------- Post added at 02:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:51 PM ----------

I am not sure if this thread was started because of me. I'd like to think so, so I will continue to do so. Anyhow, those following this thread may want to review my thread.


http://www.puritanboard.com/f37/few-my-pets-69470/

---------- Post added at 02:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:54 PM ----------

oh, and for those NOT fans of dogs, I beg to differ.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0atefssLylM


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Aug 29, 2011)

Our family owns a havanese dog. He's called Popi. God has used Popi in a special way to expose my sinful nature. I have noticed how typical it is for people to handle pets in a selfish manner. Here is a picture of our cute dog (he's just puked into our car, travelling makes his little belly messed up ):


View attachment 2263


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## Andres (Aug 29, 2011)

Ethan, as the thread-starter, I can assure you this thread was not started because of you. Actually I started it after hearing from a lady from my church. She found a stray and took it home and then was distraught to the point of tears fearing no one would adopt this dog. Then it apparently had a seizure and she completely freaked out. She was also upset no one would adopt this random stray. I didn't say anything to her, but it seemed a bit much, the way she was so into this dog she had just found. I wasn't sure if I was just being callous or what.


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## Constantlyreforming (Aug 29, 2011)

ah. I prefer to think it was because of me. I plan to keep it that way.




carry on....


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## awretchsavedbygrace (Aug 29, 2011)

I had my lovebird for 8 years and he died last year. I cried when he died. I didn't take it well the first day. But, as someone who doesn't have much friends, he was a great friend. =D


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## TimV (Aug 29, 2011)

Those are cool birds! They were native to where we stayed in SA and the kids caught several and they're easy to breed. We sure had lots. Now I just have some tarantulas, 4 cats and 3,000,000 bees, give or take a few.


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## Pergamum (Aug 30, 2011)

When Jesus came back in his body after death, he ate fish with his disciples. 

And in the NT there is talk of dining with Abraham, Issac and Jacob. 

Will we eat in heaven? And if so, does it have to be a vegetarian meal? And if not, what of the subject of animal death in Paradise?


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Aug 30, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> Will we eat in heaven?



"For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost." (Romans 14:17)


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## jwithnell (Aug 30, 2011)

I think the financial issue is a big one -- if we have a pet, we are responsible for its well being. As others have stated, there is plenty of scriptural basis to care for critters entrusted to our care. At one point, that meant you made sure it got the food and water necessary for health and did what you could to ameliorate its pain and suffering. 

Now you can get the full spectrum of medical treatment offered humans. I'm caught between meeting the expectations stated above and the growing expectation that animals should receive full human (and extremely expensive) medical care. The latter seems over the top. A dog, while beloved, is a dog. My sons would love to have one, and frankly I'd love for them to have one; but it's this issue that gives me pause.


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## Pergamum (Aug 30, 2011)

Samuel, does that mean there will be no food in heaven? The analogies of heaven include a marriage feast and sitting down to sup with the patriarchs.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Aug 30, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> Samuel, does that mean there will be no food in heaven? The analogies of heaven include a marriage feast and sitting down to sup with the patriarchs.



Perganum, I got to admit that I totally misapplied that verse in Romans. It was just all I could think of regarding your question. The verse seemingly has to do with Christian Liberty, not what heaven will or will not be like.


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## he beholds (Aug 30, 2011)

I am not a big animal person, but I see the value for man in having pets. Some (like our dog, Honeybrown) add a level of peace and comfort and enjoyment to a family. When my husband is out late, I feel safer knowing that my dog will bark (at least, and hopefully she'd bite!) if a stranger approached. I feel especially safer if I'm traveling with the children and my husband is either not with us or even just in the rest area. I know that God is the one keeping me safe, but I like seeing one of those means of protection visibly. And there are often reasons why people are isolated from other people--it is nice to have a living companion. 
So I guess my pet philosophy is if they add to your life, they are a blessing. Which is why I can't personally get behind having cats or rodents as pets. They don't seem to add any companionship or safety or, well, anything. BUT, if I did have some rodents in the house, I'd change my mind about the cat being worthless.
Plus, there are fish, which simply add beauty and mystery. I guess I could see having fish for that reason. And, I _suppose_ for others even cats and rodents could add something like that. (Though I cannot see how.)


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## earl40 (Sep 1, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> When Jesus came back in his body after death, he ate fish with his disciples.
> 
> And in the NT there is talk of dining with Abraham, Issac and Jacob.
> 
> Will we eat in heaven? And if so, does it have to be a vegetarian meal? And if not, what of the subject of animal death in Paradise?



I believe we will eat food in heaven though I doubt we will eat our pets.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 1, 2011)

I sleep with my Shihtzu, Mac, and Beagle, Mr. Calvin.

In a lifetime of theological study, no theologian has addressed the issue to my satisfaction. However, I'm pretty sure that both dogs and cats make it into eternity. 

If you go to heaven, you get to take your dog. If you want to spend eternity with a cat, you have to go to the other place.


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## christiana (Sep 1, 2011)

The righteous man cares for the needs of his animal. Proverbs 12:10


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Sep 1, 2011)

My wife named her new rescue kitten "Calvin." She was gonna name it "Zwingli" and I had to use the Head of House veto!


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## TimV (Sep 1, 2011)

But Zwingli died in battled, didn't he? A brave cat! Perhaps she was right 

Perhaps we should do a PB picture of pets thread. I don't think we've done one in a while.


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## Phil D. (Sep 1, 2011)

DMcFadden said:


> If you want to spend eternity with a cat, you have to go to the other place.


_Au contraire_, my good fellow - I will spend eternity in heaven with a Self-described, cat-like God (the conquering Lion of Judah) - perhaps, and hopefully so, with my awesome cats - while all those evildoers ("dogs," I believe the great Apostle called them) spend eternity in the other place...


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## he beholds (Sep 1, 2011)

TimV said:


> But Zwingli died in battled, didn't he? A brave cat! Perhaps she was right
> 
> Perhaps we should do a PB picture of pets thread. I don't think we've done one in a while.



pet thread! yes!


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## DMcFadden (Sep 2, 2011)

Phil D. said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to spend eternity with a cat, you have to go to the other place.
> ...



Well played! Touche! 

However, I would never want to confuse the magnificent "Lion of Judah" with those mangy, foul tempered, fickle, and phlegmatic felines common to some American households.

Give me a good dog any day! My "boys" are loyal, will guard family members with their own lives, and exemplify so many of the characteristics that I find admirable. Quite apart from the anthropomorphizing of pets in the U.S., it always amazes me how our dogs will cry at the door when either my wife or I are away on a business trip. And, when either of us is ill with a fever, they will station themselves in a comforting protective position around us. A couple of weeks ago, upon arriving home to care for my feverish wife, the Shihtzu was asleep on Jeanette's legs on her recliner; the beagle (Mr. Calvin) was fast asleep on the seat next to her, stretched out against her thigh. Somehow the dumb animals "sense" the need and respond to it helpfully. Would that we were such quick studies in loyal obedience towards our heavenly Father!


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Sep 2, 2011)

Indeed, Dennis. Shih Tzus are a very human sensitive breed. I have two now, having had to put one down to encephalitus not long ago. I weeped for our little "Tiny" who had lost its mind and was given over to seizures, despite MRIs and plenty of drugs before I finally conceded she was beyond help.

My two Shih Tzus also sleep with me. They know when I am ill and live to be near me. One of them climbs up on my chest to sleep when I am working with my laptop. Sort of a message to stop and enjoy the moment.

I probably have an irrational view of my dogs and the afterlife, but this has always comforted me in my grief for their loss:

The Rainbow Bridge

AMR


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## ac7k (Sep 2, 2011)

I got my dog Holly for Christmas for my children. A lab terrier mix, paid nothing for her. She is now 2 years old. She is my buddy. Especially during my recovery from surgery. She keeps me company when my wife and children are away from the house. I love her as my pet. I don't think there is anything wrong with that. Just because pets are not talked about in the bible does not mean that we should not have pets or love them if we do. 

Whether there are animals in eternity, your guess is as good as mine. He created animals before us... who is to say he won't create them again.


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## Pilgrim Standard (Sep 2, 2011)

I simply raise chickens. Speckled Sussex right now. I love them in that they have great temperaments, are rather gentile and beautiful, they lay quite well, and they taste wonderful. They have sat in my lap, I have pet the more friendly of the flock often. I deal with them in compassion, seeing them as lesser creatures in my care, provide for them, and even feel a form of sorrow when they are in pain and attempt to alleviate this in the most appropriate way I can. Some have names that my children have given them and I even call those by their names. But when slaughter time comes I Praise God for the meat he has provided with full joy in my heart. I don't feel the slightest bit of sadness. They just taste so good.

As for pets, my wife has allergies to cats, my eldest son to dogs, so we are limited there. When I am in my eldest years I would certainly love to have a large heavily wrinkled bloodhound at my feet on a porch as I rock in my rocking chair, reading and learning more of the Lord, perhaps the dog even giving a howl when our family sings Psalms around an evening fire. I do believe Pink took a very strict view of dogs being 'wicked creatures?' I say nonsense. 

If there are animals in paradise, I think any idea of 'eating them' is out of the question unless we are to draw a dichotomy between the definition of death in regards to humans and animals. Death is death, the spirit on the other hand is another subject. I do not believe animals died prior to the fall, nor do I believe they will die (if present) after the Lord brings restoration to the Earth. As much as I love meat, I won't miss it in the least as my full nourishment is in the Lord to whom I will be, along with the church, the Bride of in Glory! The King of the universe is mine and I his.


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## cajunhillbilly53 (Sep 2, 2011)

loved that video AMR. I too have such an irrational view of my pets and the afterlife. reminds me of a Twilight Zone episode where a man and his dog die and are on the road to heaven. They come to a place which they are told is heaven but the man must leave his dog behind. He refuses and continues on the road with his dog. He finally finds the right path to heaven and both are welcomed in. I have longed for heaven ever since my wife died. Oh to go home!!!!


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## a mere housewife (Sep 2, 2011)

It seems clear that whatever view one takes of animals in the new creation, pets are one of God's sustaining mercies to us here; and we're 'going home' to the fountain of that comfort and goodness in going home to our God. One of Calvin's prayers in His lectures on Habakkuk speaks of seeing 'face to face, in Thine image, whatever can be wished, and whatever is needful for our perfect happiness through Christ our Lord.'


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## Peairtach (Sep 3, 2011)

Andres said:


> How are we to view pets from a biblical worldview? I don't think there's anything wrong with having a pets, but where should the line be drawn? For that matter, where did the concept of keeping pets even come from? I can't recall reading of anyone in scripture having them. Should we love our pets? I know we don't have agape or eros love for them but does it fall under phileo love? Is it wrong to care about a pet to the point where we are upset over them? They don't have souls, so we shouldn't mourn for them the same way we do when a person dies, right? BTW, I have a little yorkie for a pet. I enjoy his company and I imagine I would miss him if he was gone, but I couldn't see myself being upset on the level I would be when a human dies, or if I did, I think I'd feel guilty about it. Curious to hear others thoughts.



Can we say from Scripture that (all) animals don't have souls? Not eternal souls or souls made in God's Image.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Sep 3, 2011)

Peairtach said:


> Can we say from Scripture that (all) animals don't have souls? Not eternal souls or souls made in God's Image.


Are there any beings, other than man, made in the image of God? 

AMR


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## Andres (Sep 3, 2011)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> Peairtach said:
> 
> 
> > Can we say from Scripture that (all) animals don't have souls? Not eternal souls or souls made in God's Image.
> ...



This is what I would go with...In the creation account, I don't where any creation other than man is made in God's image.


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## Peairtach (Sep 3, 2011)

Yes. I'm not saying that animals have _eternal_ souls or are made in God's Image, but am asking whether or not any animals have souls of some sort.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Sep 3, 2011)

"Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" (Eccl. 3: 21.)


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## Pilgrim Standard (Sep 6, 2011)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> "Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?" (Eccl. 3: 21.)



"Who knoweth the spirit [רוח (ruwach)]of man that goeth upward, and the spirit [רוח (ruwach)] of the beast that goeth downward to the earth?"

Job 15:2 Should a wise man utter vain [רוח (ruwach)] knowledge, and fill his belly with the east wind?

_Inigo Montoya: You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means._


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## earl40 (Sep 6, 2011)

Angels? Not animals but not human either.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Sep 6, 2011)

Ruwach can be rendered "soul" or "spirit" or "breath" depending on context. There is no clear answer. However, for what it is worth, I rather enjoyed this little exegetical post after a beloved pet expired: http://wonderofcreation.org/2009/08/03/animal-spirits/


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## a mere housewife (Sep 6, 2011)

In Psalm 49, the psalmist argues that those who live in pomp without understanding 'are like the beasts that perish'. These are those who are living wholly in the light of, and for the goods of, this age, thinking these perishable things will last -- without hope of true immortality. In Psalm 73 the Psalmist compares himself to a beast when he forgets his end, and is envious of the prosperity of the wicked. So when he forgets to think in the light of his immortality, he puts himself on the plane of being of the animals, who do not have such a hope. I am hesitant to mention these things because of the painful circumstances of many in this thread (there is certainly a lot of comfort in the unique traits and 'personalities' of animals, especially in sickness or loss). But I think we would all agree that our hope is to see our Lord who bought us with His blood, and bought all our comforts in this life for us -- and while I am certain that we will not think ourselves deprived of any good thing in His presence, and I think that animals show us something of what His presence is like (and I believe the new creation will hold every good in its truest form that we love here) -- I think Scripture would give no reason to suppose that our pets have immortality. Rather they are special gifts (often suited so perfectly to individual needs) of our Saviour in this hard world through which we must pass, to eternal joy.


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