# MA vs MDiv; WSC vs SBTS; Missions?



## kjat32 (Jan 2, 2010)

Hello again,

I recently started the "seminary help?" thread and was helped very much by the advice given there. Now that we've narrowed down our focus, I have a few more questions - thank you in advance for the help!

My husband's goal is to teach at a Bible college in Africa. We've been told having a Master's degree would probably be enough. He is considering whether or not to continue his MDiv at Southern Baptist (Biblical and Theological Stds) or to switch to Westminster S CA and take their MA (Historical Theology) and/or MA (Biblical Stds) (he'd like to do both, depends on money). Since he's not preparing for ordination but for teaching, what would be your recommendation? Please feel free to comment on the degree programs specifically and the schools as they compare with each other. We're currently in a Bible Presbyterian denomination if that makes a difference.
One other note: my husband's learning disability makes language study *extremely* difficult for him so a lighter load of biblical languages would be helpful - he would like to be familiar with Hebrew and Greek but only enough to assist his teaching, not to write his thesis in it. 

Thanks again!
Katherine


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## ewenlin (Jan 5, 2010)

No one?


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## N. Eshelman (Jan 5, 2010)

I would say do the MDiv because he could teach or go into pastoral ministry with it. A couple of years teaching and he may realize that he wants to be a 'teaching' elder. This would cover the bases. As for the languages- STRUGGLE on brother! They are so important for ministry- whether it's Sabbath School or the pulpit. The extra hard work will not let him down. You would be surprised how God can work when you take the hard road... and for the record, I got a little vomit in my throat every time I opened my Hebrew text book.


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## danborvan (Jan 17, 2010)

I would agree with Nathan, the MDiv leaves the door open to pastor/teaching elder while providing a well-rounded education in all aspects of theology. Of the M.A. programs at WSC, only the HT really goes above and beyond the MDiv curriculum, since our MDiv track is so complete. If you want to specialize in HT, I would definitely recommend our program (I'm MDiv and HT). If you want to specialize in systematics or biblical studies, I would suggest the MDiv.


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## Bookmeister (Jan 18, 2010)

I don't remember if I commented on your earlier post but have you considered RTS Jackson? Miles Van Pelt teaches summer Greek and Hebrew 1-3 and his pedagogical style if fantastic. He makes learning the languages as painless as possible and very entertaining as well. We also have the African Bible College here on campus which I think would be of great benefit to your husband. Feel free to PM me and I will get any information you may want.


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## Pergamum (Jan 19, 2010)

Where do you want to serve in missions exactly, with whom, what specific roles, and how concrete are these plans?


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## kjat32 (Jan 20, 2010)

*Thank you!*

For the responses. 

We have decided to switch from SBTS to Westminster Seminary California. Nathan is planning on doing the MA in Hist Theology and if there's enough money for a third year, do the second Master's in Theology - he was told by WSC that with tight scheduling he could do both in 3 years (not including his year of credit from Southern which we're assuming will transfer). RTS Jackson was in the running for the very reasons you mentioned, but we decided to go WSC. One other factor I didn't mention is that my family is in CA and they need some help.

As for missions. We want to serve in southern Africa, Nathan teaching at a Bible college, me raising kids and whatever else comes up, potentially with TEAM. We have just begun the application process with TEAM so that we will hopefully be ready to "go" in the 2-3 years it'll take to finish the degree. Does that make the plans concrete? To me our plans became concrete when we decided to sell our house and use the equity to fund the Master's so that we can go, prepared but probably broke.  It's been almost 2 years since we started down this road and the last year has been particularly difficult - if we wanted to give up I think we would have. We have struggled with so much and still it seems like God has not given us relief from this desire/need/urge to go to Africa. So we're going I think - BUT I always leave room for God to change things. We thought we were settling down for good when we moved here 3 years ago, near my in-laws! Ha! 
(ps - I appreciate the thoughts on MA vs MDiv but wouldn't a MA prepare one to be a teaching elder as well?)

I guess now that we're further down the road, I would appreciate a little more input. Any good/bad/ugly stories about TEAM? (The Evangelical Alliance Mission, T E A M - Home) We've done some research but it's really hard from here. And we don't even really know what to look for in a missions agency! What should we be looking for, asking? We want non-denominational, I think, but we're not really sure why; primarily we want to serve with an established agency to make fundraising easier and to access opportunities for theological teaching in southern Africa. We heard of TEAM when we contacted one of SA's bible colleges and the guy there just happened to be with TEAM (Eric Binion if it matters); after looking into it and asking around we decided to start applying there. But it's early days yet so please mention anything we should know! Thanks again to all, you've really been a help.

Katherine


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## Pergamum (Jan 20, 2010)

Hello,

Here's a loose smattering of thoughts off the top of my head:


Mission agencies:

What do you look for? 

*Look for doctrine first.* Does this org fit my doctrine? TEAM and some other evangelical orgs believe in premillenialism. How much do they stress this? Does this mean historic premil or Dispensational Premillenialism? Do they allow, accept, like 5 point Calvies? Are they baptistic or pedo? 
Example: I was rejected by the Baptist group ABWE as a "hyper-calvinist" because I affirmed all 5 points of Calvinism, even that unpopular L. So glad to be a reject from them Fundies! Ironically, their missions magazine, the next month, featured William Carey. 


*Then, look at the personality of the org;* 
---is this mainly a mercy ministry org, a teaching org, a church-planting org, a translation org, etc. TEAM, and some others look like church-planting orgs, since they want to "establish reproducing churches" - a phrase that I like. 
EXAMPLE: I was trained through Wycliffe Bible Translators, but knew that I could never join them because of their narrow focus on translation. I believe translation is a servant task to the broader task of discipling the nations and wanted to be a "missionary who might translate" rather than primarily a "translator" - if that makes sense.

*Then, examine their authority structures;* 
---is this org top-down and authoritarian, or do they come alongside you and try to assist and develop you and grant you broad freedom, within certain limits? Example: it seems to me that the IMB (Southern Baptists) have more rules and hoops and treats its peoples more like employees, whereas my org, World Team, has really come alongside me to develop and nurture me. 
Example: I know missionaries who have had to switch orgs due to a mismatch. Others were forced through hoops that they resented or merely dictated to. However, I actually have older mentors from my org that send me articles, invite me to training opportunities and make sure they are emailing me and helping me develop over my "career" - i.e., they are helping me be useful and increasingly effective over the long-haul.


*Missions locations: *

Are you sure that you want to serve in South Africa? How sure are you of that? There are many needs around the world. South Africa is needy, but what about other under-served areas as well?

Are your personalities a good match for desert, heat or cold, urban or rural, etc? I have an allocation questionnaire that I will email you that asks you many questions about our preferences to see what locations might stress you out more than others.

*
Missions role: * Are you sure a teaching role is what you want? Why not a direct discipling or church-planting role? There are many roles one can play on the field, direct evangelism, mentoring church planters, teaching in Thrid World seminary locations, Bible translation, etc. 



*The chronology of your decision-making process; in what order and by what priorities do you decide things?:*

It seems as if you and your husband already have a very specific role and job and location picked out. Are you open to finding a good org first and asking them where their greatest needs are and redirecting yourselves there, or do you want to pick your place and then try to find an org to get you there? I would suggest actually that the former strategy is more healthy than the latter; that finding a good organization is a prior step than finding the place, in regards to most places.

While I acknowledge that some people might feel a particular call to teach seminary at a school in South Africa, I am more comfortable with a family presenting themselves to an organization and saying, "Here we are, examine our gifts and abilities, and we are flexible as to what you suggest for us." My org, World Team, prays and researches, tests, and interviews and tries to suggest several locations where they believe individual missionary families might best fit given their particular skills, personalities and giftings and abilities.



*Your education:*

How expensive is WSC? How much debt will you incur? How much education do you need? How many years more of school do you want to go through? 

Also, most missionaries don't drop out and come home due to lack of academic preparation. They come home due to conflict and emotional drain. Emotional preparation is vitally important. What sort of pre-field training will you undergo? I would suggest something that prepares you for cross-cultural work. Many US Seminaries are not strong in preparing someone for crossing cultures. 

As a pre-field supplement, I would suggest something like CIT - the Center of Intercultural Training (Center for Intercultural Training (CIT)) to keep you on the field and prevent unwanted missionary attrition, which runs at over 5% per person per year. Other orgs have training schools, "jungle camps", pre-field training, etc, to prepare you for the non-academic, but very real rigors of missionary life. WSC probably will not prepare you for this sort of thing.


If you are not careful, you might find yourself much poorer and only little better prepared for the field. Others that I know are academically adequate, but they cannot work effectively in teams without conflict, or their wives burn out, stress out, and have to come home. 

Are you all training yourselves emotionally? How do you as husbad/wife handle conflict? Do you have any addictive behaviors that might flare up during periods of culture shock/culture stress? Can you handle dirt, poverty, changes of plan without getting snippity or bitter? Accumulated stresses of heat, changes of plan, aggravations with people, tiredness and learning a new language can erode your happiness. Are you prone to depression?

*
A Missionary Reading List: * Please begin a reading program on current trends in missions. Maybe take the Perspectives Course (Home - Perspectives) and subscirbe to some missions journal like EMQ (Evangelical Missions Quaerterly, the IJFM (The International Journal of Frontier Missions, IJFM Home Page), Missions Frontiers, etc, to be aware of what is happening today, what trends of thought are most influential. 

I can email a list of suggested reading if you desire.


*Your local church: * Also, what does your local church say? How are they preparing you. A missionary family is like a large sailing vessel which needs a solid port. Is your home church a good port from which to launch and how are they advising you? 



*My initial thoughts: * Sorry, but it sounds like you could research some other orgs a little better before jumping in with TEAM. Before I committed to an organization, I applied/interviewed/talked with 8-10 other groups. I went through some portion of the application process with 4 and met representatives from 3. This decision is a major one. You should be talking to at least 4 or 5 before you choose one. I am not saying that you are picking the wrong org, but I believe that you have not invested yourself into adequate research to have confidence in your decision.

Look at: Pioneers, World Team (my org World Team, I am happy with them), World Harvest, MTW - Mission to the World if you are PCA, and some others.


Also, sorry, but I would also re-examine your educational plan one more time before jumping in. Historical theology is low on my priority list of vital fields of study to engage in for teaching in Africa. Also, do you need linguistic training, basic medical training, etc? AIDS is huge in Africa, will you have any role in this?




What is your denomination, your beliefs? What orgs would fit you?

---------- Post added at 07:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:05 AM ----------

P.s. 

*MONEY: * the money from your house will be gone within a few years after selling your home. What is your long-term plan for sponsorship? Is your church going to support you and also go to bat for you and help you gather adequate monthly support and recommend you to other churches? Are you gathering a network of people to pray for you, even now, as you walk trhough all of these decisions?

---------- Post added at 07:21 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:19 AM ----------

P.s. 

*MONEY: * the money from your house will be gone within a few years after selling your home. What is your long-term plan for sponsorship? Is your church going to support you and also go to bat for you and help you gather adequate monthly support and recommend you to other churches? Are you gathering a network of people to pray for you, even now, as you walk trhough all of these decisions?


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## Andres (Jan 20, 2010)

Pergamum said:


> *Also, sorry, but I would also re-examine your educational plan one more time before jumping in. Historical theology is low on my priority list of vital fields of study to engage in for teaching in Africa. * Also, do you need linguistic training, basic medical training, etc? AIDS is huge in Africa, will you have any role in this?


 
I won't even pretend to have the level of insight that Perg has on this topic, but after reading your post, I have to second his thought on the Historical theology degree. Our OPC missionary from Uganda just came and spoke to our church this past week. They are presently just trying to get people to understand the gospel, let alone grasp Historical theology. I hope you are not discouraged though. I would seek counsel from your church and maybe talk to some of your denomination's missionaries. Also has your husband spoken to WSC and expressed his future plans? I presume WSC is not just interested in getting people enrolled for the sake of making a buck. They should have counselors who could direct you for prepartion for missions.


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