# Apologetic for Crusades



## Leslie (Jul 19, 2015)

Some years ago I heard rumors that there was a book out defending the idea of the crusades. I've searched in Amazon and can find nothing. Can anyone tell me if such exists and where to find a copy?


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## Pergamum (Jul 19, 2015)

I'll get you links later....yes, several books.

From a civil-government stand-point, a defensive war against Islam could be just. And from that perspective, the Crusades (some of them) were just. 

From a religious stand-point, however, there is no Christian equivalent to Jihad and the Pope had no authority to announce indulgences for those who took up the oath, though as a secular leader he was not wrong to call for aid to beleaguered brothers in his realm who were being killed and harassed by the Muslims.

Also, some evil acts were perpetrated by both sides during the wars. But, evil acts within a just conflict do not make a just cause unjust - though the just carrying out of a war would be expected for the most part from a just party fighting a just war.


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## arapahoepark (Jul 19, 2015)

There are a couple I know of. See this: http://heidelblog.net/2012/11/rethinking-the-crusades/
Its defense of the Crusades is not one that defends everything but puts it in view since it seems the context of the time (Islam conquering Spain and other places surrounding Europe) is virtually ignored.
Here is one by one the aforementioned authors:http://www.firstthings.com/article/2009/06/inventing-the-crusades


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## RamistThomist (Jul 19, 2015)

Even though it was quite shady from a religious perspective, it was a legitimate defensive war. Had we not thoroughly savaged Islam's armies and weakened them, it is quite likely they could have broken through Vienna centuries later.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 19, 2015)

http://www.amazon.com/Gods-Battalions-The-Case-Crusades/dp/0061582603


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## johnny (Jul 19, 2015)

I have read God's Battalion's The case for the Crusades by Rodney Stark.
I enjoyed the book, it was recommended by my Minister Kevin Ridley, it was a fun read 

The book makes a strong case against the unregenerate historians who have misrepresented the role of Christianity in the history of the world against all rational reason to do otherwise.
Much like Darwin's Evolution Mythology, created more as an attack on God rather than any scientific investigation, these historians choose darkness over light because they are children of their father, and their interest is not in the truth but in ridiculing Christianity.


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## Pergamum (Jul 19, 2015)

I believe it would be perfectly legitimate for Christians today to volunteer to go fight ISIS or Boko Haram. Just don't expect years shaved off of Purgatory for it.

http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/the-case-against-the-case-against-the-crusades/?_r=0

http://www.clayjones.net/2014/04/the-truth-about-the-crusades/


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## RamistThomist (Jul 19, 2015)

Pergamum said:


> I believe it would be perfectly legitimate for Christians today to volunteer to go fight ISIS or Boko Haram. Just don't expect years shaved off of Purgatory for it.
> 
> http://douthat.blogs.nytimes.com/2015/02/10/the-case-against-the-case-against-the-crusades/?_r=0
> 
> http://www.clayjones.net/2014/04/the-truth-about-the-crusades/



A hundred times Amen. Old Jamestown Church blogger (easily the best blog online right now) has a lot of good stuff on this.


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## MichaelNZ (Jul 19, 2015)

Here is a papist defense of the Crusades.

One point that should be brought up is that the Crusades were instigated by the Roman Catholic Church (which is not Christian). The church of Rome is both a political and religious entity, much like Islam. In both systems (medieval Romanism and Islam) dissent was not tolerated and those who held dissident views were punished. Both have a history of suppressing other religions. It's important to look at the political nature of the papacy and the Romish church when talking about the Crusades.


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## Leslie (Jul 20, 2015)

Many thanks. This all gives me a place to start and some good reading for next week Sunday.


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## Philip (Jul 20, 2015)

MichaelNZ said:


> One point that should be brought up is that the Crusades were instigated by the Roman Catholic Church (which is not Christian).



By that standard, there were no Christians at the time, given that all were either Eastern (Orthodox, Caesaropapist) or Western Catholic (Roman). By this standard we condemn all of the theology of Anselm (incarnation and substitution) and Thomas Aquinas (election and Predestination), and leave ourselves far poorer.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 20, 2015)

Philip said:


> MichaelNZ said:
> 
> 
> > One point that should be brought up is that the Crusades were instigated by the Roman Catholic Church (which is not Christian).
> ...



And to make it even worse, St Bernard of Clairvaux was instrumental in religiously getting these Crusades off the ground, and Calvin loved St Bernard.


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## Philip (Jul 20, 2015)

ReformedReidian said:


> And to make it even worse, St Bernard of Clairvaux was instrumental in religiously getting these Crusades off the ground, and Calvin loved St Bernard.



As I recall, he wrote the rule of life for the Knights Templar and preached the Second Crusade.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 20, 2015)

Philip said:


> ReformedReidian said:
> 
> 
> > And to make it even worse, St Bernard of Clairvaux was instrumental in religiously getting these Crusades off the ground, and Calvin loved St Bernard.
> ...



I used to dislike Bernard until this moment. Now I am officially in.


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## Philip (Jul 20, 2015)

ReformedReidian said:


> Philip said:
> 
> 
> > ReformedReidian said:
> ...



Bernard's impact on the spirituality of the reformed churches cannot be understated. Though it seems that by the 17th century, a lot of the attention in Puritan and reformed circles had turned toward the Eastern Fathers as well.

And before anyone brings it up, it should be noted that the Templar order was suppressed by Papal decree in 1312 despite being found innocent. Archival evidence reveals what historians of the period suspected: that the suppression had more to do with politics (and Philip IV of France's debts) than with any actual wrongdoing. Further, any and all claims of underground continuation of the order are spurious at best.


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## Leslie (Jul 20, 2015)

How can one NOT love Bernard after reading the hymns he wrote? Sure, he got some things wrong, but who is above error?


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## RamistThomist (Jul 20, 2015)

Philip said:


> ReformedReidian said:
> 
> 
> > Philip said:
> ...



So, do you accept the conspiracy theory that the Templars went underground and rose again as the Freemasons?


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## Philip (Jul 20, 2015)

ReformedReidian said:


> So, do you accept the conspiracy theory that the Templars went underground and rose again as the Freemasons?



Yes, just like I accept the theory that the Irish are the lost tribes of Israel and that Scots Gaelic was the language of Eden.


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## Ken (Jul 22, 2015)

Have you checked out the PIG books? 

For example: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)

God bless you and keep you,
Ken


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## Shimei (Jul 22, 2015)

Robert Godfrey - The Crusades


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## RamistThomist (Jul 22, 2015)

Ken said:


> Have you checked out the PIG books?
> 
> For example: The Politically Incorrect Guide to Islam (and the Crusades)
> 
> ...



It's outstanding. Spencer knocks it out of the park. Even better, try to get the audio version read by Jeff Riggenbach.


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## Leslie (Jul 22, 2015)

Spencer's blog, Jihad Watch, is worth following.


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