# Is the Offering an Element of Worship?



## Baptist-1689er (Aug 25, 2009)

Within Reformed Baptist circles there is differing opinion as to whether taking up the Offering during the service is an element of worship warranted from Scripture. I would appreciate any thoughts on this issue. Perhaps this has already been discussed and I couldn't find the thread.


----------



## PointingToChrist (Aug 25, 2009)

Baptist-1689er said:


> Within Reformed Baptist circles there is differing opinion as to whether taking up the Offering during the service is an element of worship warranted from Scripture. I would appreciate any thoughts on this issue. Perhaps this has already been discussed and I couldn't find the thread.



I am not well-read in Acts yet, however, looking at passages like Acts 2:42-47, it seemed that their fellowship was strong and on-going. Verse 45 mentions selling their possessions and distributing as to the needs of the brethren. Acts 4:32-37 similarly speaks about this.

I don't recall a passage where a tithe (or offering) was specifically taken up during a service. In fact, I don't recall them specifically talking about a Sabbath service (other than when Jesus and others are mentioned teaching in the synagogue).

I think it may have evolved that with the "busy-ness" of our lives, the offering has become part of the worship service rather than apart, which it may have been. I doubt the collection would be as abundant if congregants were asked outside of the worship service, because people leave (if it were taken up after the service), or people would simply not bring/send it in during the week. This doesn't justify having it during the service (if it is inappropriate to do so), rather, it shows our failings.


----------



## OPC'n (Aug 25, 2009)

1Cor 16:2On the first day of every week, each of you is to put something aside and store it up, as he may prosper, so that there will be no collecting when I come.

I would say yes...my church does it during the worship service.


----------



## Prufrock (Aug 25, 2009)

The issue has been discussed frequently, although I'm not sure if ever strictly respecting Reformed Baptists (though the similitude of the WCF and LBC on this point is suggestive). The offering is _not_ included as an element of worship in the WCF; and the Directory for Publick Worship states that, when done, "the collection for the poor is so to be ordered, that no part of the publick worship be thereby hindered." A collection box in which people could place money privately was customary. 

Here are two succinct yet helpful threads dealing with the issue:
Giving in Worship and the WCF
Giving in Worship (Church History)


----------



## Knoxienne (Aug 25, 2009)

I like the idea of a box in the foyer where people can tithe anonymously.

One church we visit has an old Christmas cookies gift tin next to the pulpit for tithes and offerings. It's funny because they don't even celebrate Christmas there!


----------



## OPC'n (Aug 25, 2009)

Prufrock said:


> The issue has been discussed frequently, although I'm not sure if ever strictly respecting Reformed Baptists (though the similitude of the WCF and LBC on this point is suggestive). The offering is _not_ included as an element of worship in the WCF; and the Directory for Publick Worship states that, when done, "the collection for the poor is so to be ordered, that no part of the publick worship be thereby hindered." A collection box in which people could place money privately was customary.
> 
> Here are two succinct yet helpful threads dealing with the issue:
> Giving in Worship and the WCF
> Giving in Worship (Church History)



So are you saying that my pastor is sinning because we take up the offering during the worship service? He is also an OPC pastor. What does the OPC say about when to take an offering?


----------



## Prufrock (Aug 25, 2009)

Madcow said:


> So are you saying that my pastor is sinning because we take up the offering during the worship service? He is also an OPC pastor. What does the OPC say about when to take an offering?



I honestly don't _recall_ saying that.

I'm not sure what, precisely, the OPC says about when to take an offering, though given that it generally seems to happen by passing the plate in the service, I imagine they're pretty fine with it.


----------



## OPC'n (Aug 25, 2009)

Yes, they are and here's why link


----------



## Baptist-1689er (Aug 25, 2009)

Madcow said:


> Yes, they are and here's why link



Thank you Sarah. This is the kind of resource I was looking for!


----------



## rbcbob (Aug 25, 2009)

Prufrock said:


> The issue has been discussed frequently, although I'm not sure if ever strictly respecting Reformed Baptists (though the similitude of the WCF and LBC on this point is suggestive). The offering is _not_ included as an element of worship in the WCF; and the Directory for Publick Worship states that, when done, "the collection for the poor is so to be ordered, that no part of the publick worship be thereby hindered." *A collection box in which people could place money privately was customary. *
> 
> Here are two succinct yet helpful threads dealing with the issue:
> Giving in Worship and the WCF
> Giving in Worship (Church History)



This has been the practice of our church from its first day.


----------



## R. Scott Clark (Aug 25, 2009)

Is the Offering an Element, a Circumstance, or Neither? Heidelblog


----------



## Jimmy the Greek (Aug 25, 2009)

No rationale or justification given from me here. However, I will say that our independent Bible church treats the offering as an integral element of worship -- and exclusively so. That is, there is never an offering taken at any other time or place.


----------



## Baptist-1689er (Aug 25, 2009)

R. Scott Clark said:


> Is the Offering an Element, a Circumstance, or Neither? Heidelblog



Excellent article. Thank you.


----------



## jwithnell (Aug 25, 2009)

Given the offerings brought to the temple in the Old Testament, I'd think there's plenty of Biblical basis to commend having the offering during the service.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Aug 25, 2009)

This is correct; unaltered Westminster does not include the collection as an element of worship. Bear in mind though, churches that have changed practice in this regard as in others did not always amend the Confession. For instance, the Directory for Public Worship of the PCUSA in 1789 included a collection for the poor just prior to the benediction (see an 1823 printing here). Whether it was considered an element or not is a good question to look into. I've not done any collation but obviously the practice evolved and moved to a central portion of the service in many churches.



Prufrock said:


> The issue has been discussed frequently, although I'm not sure if ever strictly respecting Reformed Baptists (though the similitude of the WCF and LBC on this point is suggestive). The offering is _not_ included as an element of worship in the WCF; and the Directory for Publick Worship states that, when done, "the collection for the poor is so to be ordered, that no part of the publick worship be thereby hindered." A collection box in which people could place money privately was customary.
> 
> Here are two succinct yet helpful threads dealing with the issue:
> Giving in Worship and the WCF
> Giving in Worship (Church History)


----------



## jwithnell (Aug 25, 2009)

I can add to the observation on the practice developing over the years: when I was a small child, I attended a mainline Presbyterian church that went back far enough that it was likely a solid church at one point. They had an ancient collection box out in the entrance and a collection plate that was passed: people were told to follow the practice that they preferred.


----------

