# What is a Mystic?



## a mere housewife (Jul 21, 2004)

In reading the thread where Watchman Nee is cited, I started to wonder what exactly a mystic is... could someone explain what makes a person a mystic, and why a mystic is a bad thing? For instance, I have heard A. W. Tozer classed as a mystic, but I've profited a great deal from reading one of his books. Also, I've been slowly working my way through Tersteegen with profit-- I believe he is also classed as a mystic.

I know that neither Tozer nor Tersteegen had the absolute soundest theology; but what about their theology makes them "mystics", and why is it wrong?

Also (related in my mind, though this is a different question) can a person be unorthodox, and yet be a Christian? For instance, C. S. Lewis did not believe that the OT was true in a literal sense... isn't this unorthodox? Yet he was certainly a true believer in Christ. He believed in the gospels literally, and seems to have had more understanding of their reality than many "orthodox" people do-- at least he has conveyed more of their reality to me than many orthodox people have.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jul 21, 2004)

Mystics press the need for an open and unhindered relationship with the Holy Spirit (a form of charismania). The Holy Spirit, they say, is an "it" which is heard, seen and felt within all those of a good heart and once people are open to "it", "it" will guide and direct their lives to the "reality that is God." It is the belief that direct knowledge of God, spiritual truth, or ultimate reality can be attained through subjective experience (liek when someone has intuition or insight). That is why this was and is popular around Charismatic and Pentecostal circles. Mystics include: George Fox, from the Quakers, Teresa of Avila, St. John of the Cross, St. Isaac of Syria, C.S. Lewis to a certain extent, Bede Griffiths, Meister Eckhart, RW Emerson, Brother Lawrence, Thomas Merton, William Law, and Paul Tillich.


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## Ianterrell (Jul 21, 2004)

...Benny Hinn. Oral Roberts. T. D. Jakes. Jim Cymbala. David Wilkerson, Joyce Meyer.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 21, 2004)

Thank you, Mr. McMahon. As I've understood what you've said, mystics are basically trying to get beyond the Word, rather than at it-- and their view of the Holy Spirit is more of a power that enables them to get beyond the Word, rather than the Person that enlightens us to get at it? They are seeking some sort of unmediated experience with God, that directly acts on the emotions/aesthetic senses and "enlightens" us from there, rather than approaching, as the written Word, through our understanding?


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 21, 2004)

[quote:e696cf20fc="a mere housewife"]Thank you, Mr. McMahon. As I've understood what you've said, mystics are basically trying to get beyond the Word, rather than at it-- and their view of the Holy Spirit is more of a power that enables them to get beyond the Word, rather than the Person that enlightens us to get at it? They are seeking some sort of unmediated experience with God, that directly acts on the emotions/aesthetic senses and "enlightens" us from there, rather than approaching, as the written Word, through our understanding?[/quote:e696cf20fc]
That is certainly part of it. It is also a tendency to laziness. They would rather have a direct revelation or experience of God, or a more personal experience of God, rather than go through His Word, basically a shortcut. There is also an element of pride, in they wish to have a relationship with God like no one else, they wish to be something greater than there fellow beleivers.


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## ReformedWretch (Jul 21, 2004)

[quote:8dfba3c475]It is also a tendency to laziness. They would rather have a direct revelation or experience of God, or a more personal experience of God, rather than go through His Word, basically a shortcut.[/quote:8dfba3c475]

Wow, that's a great explination. Somthing I admit to chasing after for a long time.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 21, 2004)

Laziness and pride are so often the pyschology behind our bad theology, aren't they?

It seems that it could also be in some cases simply the man centeredness of our whole unregenerate way of thinking creeping into our theology about the Holy Spirit, and about revelation.
I'm so glad that isn't so-- that it is true to say "His love, not mine the resting place: His truth, not mine, the tie."


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## turmeric (Jul 21, 2004)

Henry Blackaby, Tommy Tenney...

Isn't all this montanism? Montanism was a heresy that started in Phrygia I believe, with Montanus who believed he was an incarnation of the Holy Spirit.

I learned something interesting while googling one night...that Hannah Whitehall Smith, who helped to start a wave of quietism in the 19th Century was a Quaker...and so was John Wimber of Vineyard fame. Hmmm!


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## Bryan (Jul 22, 2004)

If your going to classify Tozer as a mystic then I wouldn't say they are all bad. I like a lot of what the guy has written, don't agree with it all but a lot of it is good. He's not a mystic to the extreme like others that have been mentioned...

I think once anyone puts undue emphesis on something it turns their theology bad, in the case of mystics since their emphesis is on something that draws them away from the bible it's even more dangrous. 

And Benny Hinn a mystic? 'Come on, who are you trying to fool, he's no mystic, I'm sure he doesn't even meet their standards 

Bryan
SDG


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## JohnV (Jul 22, 2004)

Heidi:
[quote:e29c99f214]They are seeking some sort of unmediated experience with God, [/quote:e29c99f214]
Boy, does that nail it. It bypasses the Word of God, that is Christ and His revelation of the gospel. 

It is important to hear the whispers of the Spirit in everyday life, and especially in communion with others. "Where two or three are gathered in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt. 18:20. But it is never outside the Word, never by the whim or will of man. And something as great as revelation from God is not just for one man, but for all. God does not need to seek the one with the right charismatic opening for His message.

One thing that Matt did not mention, and perhaps I am mistaken about this, is that mystics are also of the sort that could be considered to be gnostics, ones who believe it is impossible to know. That, I would think, is the [i:e29c99f214]raison d'etre[/i:e29c99f214] of their mysticism. I stand to be corrected.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 22, 2004)

Thanks, everyone: I am much more clear on what a mystic is-- I do agree with Bryan that people like Tersteegen, Tozer and Lewis are not really "mystics" in this sense, though they have been infected with it in some areas. Could this maybe be a weakness preying more on their strength of being able to realize and respond more completely to the impact of the gospel than many people do, and of being able to draw it out with a more complete impact on others? It seems like having your emotions and aesthetics more in tune with the gospel can easily lead to a temptation to seek emotional and aesthetic experiences. But I think all of these men realized and preached that to cling to God (as revealed in Scripture) even in the absence of emotions and experiences is one of the purest forms of faith-- because we are getting almost nothing out of it, really. I really like C. S. Lewis, especially, for how he has helped me to have a more heartfelt gratitude, and to see more fully the glory of what Christ has done for me-- to have a more complete response to the gospel than I had growing up in a Christian home, and taking the glorious truth so much for granted. (I don't mean to imply that everyone who grows up in a Christian home does this: but just that Lewis is very good for that problem.)

Does anyone have any thoughts on my question about orthodoxy-- specifically, can an unorthodox person be a Christian? I remember reading discussions about what orthodoxy means-- though I don't remember it ever being decided... but I can't remember reading if, when we are talking about orthodoxy, we mean minimum knowledge to be saved, or simply the basics of right doctrine, though salvific doctrine is much more minimal?


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## yeutter (Jul 23, 2004)

Are pietists mystics light? Many seem to be in practice.


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