# How Important is Accreditation?



## RBDude (Aug 30, 2004)

How Important is Accreditation?  

In reference to another thread on the board, I thought it was in order to start a new thread concerning the issue of accreditation. 

RBDude


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## matt01 (Aug 30, 2004)

Accreditation could be either very important, or completely useless""depending on the purpose of your studies. Take for an example Bob, who has an M.Div from Master"(tm)s Seminary and is established in a pastorate. He decides that he would like to pursue graduate studies without leaving his ministry, uprooting his family, etc. It could be wise for him to choose a non-accredited school. He is studying for personal edification, in order to better feed the flock of Christ. He doesn"(tm)t plan of teaching in a seminary or anything of the sort.

On the other hand there is Todd, who is also a good graduate of Master"(tm)s Seminary. Todd would like to teach at Princeton someday. It would probably not be the wisest thing for him to get a non-accredited degree. The education might be very good, and equip him excellently for the task. Unfortunately, he would need to be able to present credentials, which the school would accept. As someone recently pointed out, ATS is now requiring seminary profs to have an earned doctorate from an accredited school. 

For me, I could go either way. I don"(tm)t feel called to the pastorate, but I would like to study more of the things of Christ and historical theology. I would probably go to an unaccredited school simply because I cannot uproot my family. For another person, they may need to have an accredited degree.


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## RBDude (Sep 2, 2004)

*Distance Education and the Ministry*

Found this interesting article - enjoy  

Distance Education and the Ministry

http://www.apcvan.ca/Jerblog/distance education.htm


Grace to All,
RBDude


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## Bryan (Sep 2, 2004)

The author makes some worth while points, much to consider there.

Bryan
SDG


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## daveb (Sep 19, 2004)

Not coming from a Reformed background myself I'm wondering how important accreditation is for ordination in Reformed denominations. Is there a hard and fast rule that one must possess an accredited degree or is it more of a case-by-case basis?


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## Puritan Sailor (Sep 19, 2004)

[quote:8bc7072ac0="daveb"]Not coming from a Reformed background myself I'm wondering how important accreditation is for ordination in Reformed denominations. Is there a hard and fast rule that one must possess an accredited degree or is it more of a case-by-case basis?[/quote:8bc7072ac0]
For presbyterians, it's not necessarily the seminary you go to, it's how you do on you licensure exams and presbytery examinations. Some people get ordained without even going to seminary. They just need to demonstrate competent knowledge in the languages, Bible knowledge, Reformed theology, and demonstrate gifts for the pastorate.


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## fredtgreco (Sep 19, 2004)

[quote:62d1558203="daveb"]Not coming from a Reformed background myself I'm wondering how important accreditation is for ordination in Reformed denominations. Is there a hard and fast rule that one must possess an accredited degree or is it more of a case-by-case basis?[/quote:62d1558203]

More of a case by case basis. For example, in conservative Presbyterian circles (OPC, PCA, RPCNA, etc) you have a [b:62d1558203]much [/b:62d1558203]better chance of being ordained (and being less under suspicion) if you graduate from unaccredited Greenville Seminary than accredited Princeton.


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## daveb (Sep 19, 2004)

Thanks Gents!


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Sep 20, 2004)

In thinking about this, one might well consider the philosophy of education that all this falls under. Do we want schools falling under State guidelines (which are atheistic in every sense of the Word) so that the government can have their say as to the curriculum, or educational processes that one goes through in order to graduate? or allow them enough to hang themselves with so they can get some "state" grant money or "financial aid?".

Or do we want the educated church forming those guidelines?

After seriously thinking through all that, and more, then one shoudl make a conscious decision.

I would rather sit under a teacher who has 1 solidly Reformed degree from an unaccreddited Reformed school, than one who went to Princeton, Harvard and Yale combined.


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## RickyReformed (Sep 28, 2004)

Seminaries and Accreditation


by Dwight F. Zeller


The subject of seminaries and accreditation is one which I am asked about frequently. I should be able to speak on this subject. If I cannot it is only because I have not thoughtfully observed what has been going on around me. I have attended eight different seminaries, from which I have four different seminary degrees, and I have been on the staff of two other seminaries. It is not my objective to put down anyone else, but to express what I have observed.

When this subject comes to the minds of many, they think that a seminary is either accredited or it isn"(tm)t "" that is, it is either a member of some academic group that accredits schools or it is not. There is a false assumption in this way of thinking. The mistake is in thinking that a seminary must be a member of an academic association to be accredited.

Seminaries are a part of the Christian Church. This is true whether a seminary is a part of a denomination or not. They are Church schools. Their only function is to train students to minister more effectively in the Church. Seminaries do not exist in order to train students to function in the academic world. Therefore, it is the Church which is the primary accreditation body for any seminary. That accreditation from the Church may come through a denomination, or from individual Churches. The first question which should come to our minds about accreditation is, "Is the school responsible to the Church and does the Church recognize or accredit it?"

Someplace in our history this way of thinking has gone by the board. We have come to think that the only real accreditation is from secular academic organizations. What has happened to "I believe in the...holy catholic church"? For many seminaries this has been changed to "I believe in the secular academic accreditation associations."

Let us look at the situation from a Biblical perspective. Both Paul and Jesus exhorted us time and again to beware of the "world." I have counted nine times in the New Testament where we are directly warned to keep away from the "world." The secular seminary accreditation associations are a part of the world system. They certainly are not a part of the Church, and they are not Christian. To align a seminary with one of these organizations is to deliberately affiliate with a system that is based on the standard of the "world."

Who are these secular accreditation associations? The only national organization that is exclusively organized to give secular accreditation to seminaries is the Association of Theological Seminaries. This group is composed of Jewish, Roman Catholic, and Protestant seminaries. Some seminaries are members of regional accreditation associations. These are associations which accredit secondary schools, colleges, and professional schools. These organizations are not Christian, but are secular academic organizations "" they are part of the "world system."

Many times I have been told by those associated with seminaries that to join either ATS or a regional association does not require a school to change its position. That may be true, but it is also true that the seminary has deliberately chosen to associate itself with an organization which is not and cannot be Christian. It has asked for and pays to have input from the world. These associations ask that a seminary write its own purpose statement, and state that they will be judged by that purpose statement. If a seminary is Christian and Biblical, that purpose statement should indicate its Christian and Biblical objectives. If the statement does not have this included, it certainly is either not Christian or is seeking to conceal its identity. If a seminary has a good Christian and Biblical purpose statement, how can it be expected that those who deny the essentials of the Christian faith (Christ"(tm)s deity, his atoning death and bodily resurrection), and who do not hold to the truth of the Scriptures, will be able to evaluate a seminary that has these as its objectives? We would not do this in any other area of life. For instance "" would someone who believes in the sanctity of marriage be able to get counseling from someone who believes that infidelity and divorce are possible options? Whether it is a seminary or a couple seeking counsel, to expose one"(tm)s self to the "world" is not to conform to the Biblical injunctions against worldliness.

How has this worked out in practice? This is not to say that there are not good Christian schools that are members of secular accreditation associations. But the test is not how many may be members of such associations, but what happens in time to these seminaries. I do not have definitive studies to back up any statistics on this subject. Even if one did there would be some subjectivity involved. I will give a general observation: I do not know of any seminaries that have joined a secular accreditation association that have maintained a position on the inerrancy of the Scriptures for more than 30 or 40 years after they started such an affiliation. Many may still have in their confessional statements an affirmation of their belief in the truth of the Scriptures, but that is not the real test "" the real test is what is being taught in the classrooms. This is not to say that because a seminary has joined one of these associations it will go bad. The joining of such an association is only symptomatic of the seminary"(tm)s deliberate choice to conform to the world.

In recent times two seminaries that have been members of the Association of Theological Seminaries have had teachers who became liberal "" they no longer held to the truth of the Scriptures in their original autographs "" and the seminaries have sought to revive their Biblical positions. But since the seminaries were members of ATS they were put on academic probation for not allowing academic freedom.

There is another side to this issue. Often schools claim that they need to join the secular accreditation associations in order to assure their students and constituents that they are "up-to-snuff." They need the association in order that their students may have their credits accepted elsewhere. What is actually being said is that accredited seminaries like Iliff School of Religion (which disclaims being exclusively Christian) or Union Seminary in New York are "up-to-snuff" academically.

Many of the seminaries that are members of these secular accreditation associations are ungodly, as well as academically very poor. To want to be compared to them only lowers one"(tm)s own position. The courses and excellence that are needed to make a seminary effective do not need to be evaluated by the world. Their standard is different from that of the Christian. One seminary which I attended which is a member of ATS required students to have only four weeks of Greek and four weeks of Hebrew in order to receive the Master of Divinity degree. This seminary professed to be evangelical, but did not hold to the truth of all the Bible. Seminaries are in the business of training students to be technicians in the Scriptures. How can a seminary do this without teaching the languages in which the Scriptures were written? To fail to teach students ""in seminary--to have a working knowledge of the Biblical languages is unacademic, but that is all right with the secular accreditation association. So, to claim that a seminary is joining a secular accreditation association in order to make it academically acceptable does not prove that the school has higher standards for the training of its students.

Even though seminaries say that they join these association for academic purposes, that is often not the real objective. By joining these secular associations a seminary then becomes eligible for grants and matching grants from companies and foundations. Once these monies become part of the seminary"(tm)s budget they do not want to let them go. These funds appear to come with no strings attached. But when the seminary must maintain its accreditation with a secular accreditation association in order to continue getting these funds it is obvious that membership does not come without obligations.

Another reason why seminaries join these groups is to get students. Many people think that they must go to a seminary that is a member of a secular accreditation association. They would not want to graduate from a "non-accredited" school. They would not be as well thought of. Really the situation may be closer to being the other way around. Prospective students "" most of whom know little about this subject "" should be seeking to find a seminary that is not a member of a secular association, but which is a school which has a reputation in the Church for producing students who are effective ministers of God"(tm)s Word.

Let us look at it in a little different light. Would you like for your denomination or individual congregation to be a member of the National Council of Churches? If you are a member of that organization you do at least subscribe to an affirmation that " Jesus is Lord." No one comes to your Church and evaluates it, and you would not want anyone to. Most of us would not want the stigma of being associated in any way with the National Council of Churches because of its liberal reputation. But for a seminary to join a secular accreditation association, it is requesting the secular world to evaluate it, and it is paying to have it done. It is asking for the stigma of an organization which is worldly. For a seminary to join one of these associations will do more harm to the Church or Churches it serves than for the Church or Churches to join the National Council of Churches.

A well known Church historian who taught most of his adult life in seminary predicted that the seminary where he taught has a life expectancy of holding to the truth of the Scripture of about 40 years. He has proven to be correct. Why have we gotten our seminaries so associated with the secular world that we have a sure formula for them to lose the faith on which they were founded? The answer is really very simple. Man tends toward sin. The Bible from cover to cover teaches that. But for some reason we have not applied that to seminaries. Seminaries tend toward sin. If a seminary does that which is natural, it will turn to the world and sin. It will lose its firm Christian faith. We must realize this and always be on our guard to preserve those seminaries that are sound. This will mean that the seminary that wants to keep from going bad will have to sacrifice in many areas, but our Lord has never promised the way would be easy. It will also mean that it will be misunderstood by many, but again, the world has frequently misunderstood Christ and the Christian.

I do hope that this short article will help those who do not know what the present situation is with seminaries and accreditation. This is a situation which the Church has not addressed, but it is an internal problem that has plagued the Church and will continue to do so until we have the courage to be Christian and Biblical in this particular area.


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## RickyReformed (Sep 28, 2004)

(I didn't realize that article was so long or I would've posted a link. sorry!)

Do you agree with this paragraph in the above article:

[quote:24a5a21df5]Seminaries are a part of the Christian Church. This is true whether a seminary is a part of a denomination or not. They are Church schools. Their only function is to train students to minister more effectively in the Church. Seminaries do not exist in order to train students to function in the academic world. Therefore, it is the Church which is the primary accreditation body for any seminary. That accreditation from the Church may come through a denomination, or from individual Churches. The first question which should come to our minds about accreditation is, "Is the school responsible to the Church and does the Church recognize or accredit it?" 
[/quote:24a5a21df5]

Particularly, "[Seminaries] are Church schools. Their only function is to train students to minister more effectively in the Church. Seminaries do not exist in order to train students to function in the academic world." It seems to me that if this premise is true, then his conclusion [i.e. "the Church...is the primary accreditation body for any seminary."] would follow, correct?

Is this premise true? What think ye?


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Sep 29, 2004)

[quote:757c43f146="RickyReformed"](I didn't realize that article was so long or I would've posted a link. sorry!)

Do you agree with this paragraph in the above article:

[quote:757c43f146]Seminaries are a part of the Christian Church. This is true whether a seminary is a part of a denomination or not. They are Church schools. Their only function is to train students to minister more effectively in the Church. Seminaries do not exist in order to train students to function in the academic world. Therefore, it is the Church which is the primary accreditation body for any seminary. That accreditation from the Church may come through a denomination, or from individual Churches. The first question which should come to our minds about accreditation is, "Is the school responsible to the Church and does the Church recognize or accredit it?" 
[/quote:757c43f146]

Particularly, "[Seminaries] are Church schools. Their only function is to train students to minister more effectively in the Church. Seminaries do not exist in order to train students to function in the academic world." It seems to me that if this premise is true, then his conclusion [i.e. "the Church...is the primary accreditation body for any seminary."] would follow, correct?

Is this premise true? What think ye?[/quote:757c43f146]

Semiaries, those who should have an academic view both towards the pastorate and in any other field that a student woudl go into, should be regulated by the church. But the sense in which "church" is restricted above makes it sound as though they man "seminiaries train just ministers." This is nonsensical. If seminaries did not train offices in the church, (i.e. pastors AND TEACHERS) then seminaries in academic cricles and those academic needs would not be existent. Seminaries also train other teachers for the church, as well as teachers for private scholls (still under the guise of the church.) So one must be discerning in what they mean here.

Also, serminaries, depending on the vocation chosen, can train Chrsitians for the secular market. Having a man or woman educated with seminary classes and then becominga plumber or basket weaver is as Christian and honorable as a pastor. Christinity shoudl arrest every area of life, and every sphere of life with the Gospel.


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## RickyReformed (Sep 30, 2004)

Matt, 

As an aside - and perhaps this has already been covered on another post - what is the scriptural justification for seminaries?

Thanks for your insights,
Ricky Reformed


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## Providence Girl (Feb 17, 2005)

*The importance of accreditation*

Hi all,

I currently work in the Admissions Department of a brand new, confessionally reformed liberal arts college in Ontario, CA. 
Since we are new, we are going through the accreditation process. It's amazing how misunderstood the whole process is by the general public. The most important thing to understand is that no school can become instantly accredited! Regional accrediting bodies require that schools be operational (eg have students on campus and hold classes) for at least 2 years before those schools can even become a candidate for accreditation. The regional bodies wish to make sure that everything the school said that they were going to do on paper actually transpires in the classroom. Here in California, there are 2 new campuses joining our California State University system and our University of California system. Both Cal State Channel Islands and UC-Merced are not accredited even though they come from established university systems. Like everyone else, they too must jump through the same hoops.
Accreditation is only an issue with a small number of graduate schools. For the most part, grad/law/medical schools look at your test scores, grades and the strength of your recommendations. 
In the example of my college, we hope to have candidacy status with our regional accreditting body 2 years into our program and then receive accreditation simultaneously with the graduation of our first 4 year class.
A lot of info I know...I hope it helps clear up some of the confusion.


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## gwine (Feb 17, 2005)

It may not be so important to most but my employer has a tuition program that favors regionally accredited institutions of higher learning (I just had to say that.) It is easier to put down that you are going to University of Wisconsin than it is Briercrest Bible College (not picking on them but they were the first one on the Baker's Guide list.)


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## daveb (Feb 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by gwine_
> It may not be so important to most but my employer has a tuition program that favors regionally accredited institutions of higher learning (I just had to say that.) It is easier to put down that you are going to University of Wisconsin than it is Briercrest Bible College (not picking on them but they were the first one on the Baker's Guide list.)



Briercrest College is accredited (just for clarification).

[Edited on 2-17-2005 by daveb]


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## gwine (Feb 18, 2005)

> _Originally posted by daveb_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by gwine_
> ...



Which I knew and probably should have noted in my other post. But it is not *regionally* accredited.

From their website:



> Accreditation
> 
> Chartered by the Government of Saskatchewan since 1939 to award degrees at the post-secondary level
> Fully accredited by the Association for Biblical Higher Education



My company will sign my tuition reimbursement in a heartbeat for regionally accredited institutions. Schools such as Briercrest College or Global University (accredited by the Distance Education and Training Council - DETC) are not impossible but would take more work.

Crown College, which offers a Bachelor of Science in Christian Ministry, is accredited by both the North Central Association of Colleges and Schools (one of the 6 regional accrediting agencies) and the American Association of Bible Colleges. This would make it easier for me to go there.

Just my observation and probably not as important in the ministry arena.


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