# Does Mormonism Worship the God of the Bible?



## Blue Tick (Apr 26, 2008)

Does Mormonism Worship the God of the Bible?


Debate with Pastor Jason Wallace and Allen Richardson.

[video=youtube;P27duDa8BY8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P27duDa8BY8[/video]


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## Herald (Apr 26, 2008)

Perhaps I am too simplistic but I believe the answer is plain. No, Mormons do not worship the God of the Bible. They deny that the Father is Spirit, the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit.


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## JM (Apr 26, 2008)

Nope.


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## Blue Tick (Apr 26, 2008)

> Perhaps I am too simplistic but I believe the answer is plain. No, Mormons do not worship the God of the Bible. They deny that the Father is Spirit, the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit.



Bill, your correct in your simplicity. However, many Mormons especially those in Salt Lake have not heard about the God of the Bible. The purpose of these debates is to draw a clear distinction between Mormons and Christians. If you ask a Mormon today they'll no longer deny that their Christians rather they affirm that they are Christians.


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## JM (Apr 26, 2008)

[video=youtube;BVr50cgApPI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVr50cgApPI&feature=PlayList&p=59674968283B7BE3&index=3[/video]


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## Blue Tick (Apr 26, 2008)

This debate took place about 5-6 years ago in SLC. 

James White and Gilbert Scharffs. Not much of a debate.


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## HaigLaw (Apr 26, 2008)

North Jersey Baptist said:


> Perhaps I am too simplistic but I believe the answer is plain. No, Mormons do not worship the God of the Bible. They deny that the Father is Spirit, the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit.



We don't need much more than that. Some major in knowing every jot and tittle about the cults, and I'm thankful for that.

There was a guy named Gerald Tanner who years ago became converted out of Mormonism and started the Modern Microfilm Company that exposed a lot of this cult's frauds, such as Smith's plagiarism of Masonic temple ritual to make it Mormon temple ritual, and Smith's council of 70 were all Masons, so they had to know of the fraud. When Smith was lynched in Navoo City, Ill., his last words on earth were the Masonic high sign of distress, by which he knew fellow Masons in the lynch mob were honor bound to save him. I don't think this was merely a sincerely-misguided man. I think he was a knowing fraud.


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## bookslover (Apr 27, 2008)

HaigLaw said:


> I don't think this was merely a sincerely-misguided man. I think he was a knowing fraud.



Many years ago I read a book originally published in the 19th century which was a biography of Smith. (Unfortunately, I don't remember either the title or the author - it was a long time ago.) Being published in the same century, the author was able to interview members of Smith's family and others who had known him personally, even in his early days.

The bottom line was that Smith was a slacker and a con man, from an entire family of slackers and con men. Mormonism is the most successful fraud ever pulled off in the United States.


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## bookslover (Apr 27, 2008)

Blue Tick said:


> Does Mormonism Worship the God of the Bible?
> 
> 
> Debate with Pastor Jason Wallace and Allen Richardson.
> ...



The short answer to your question is: No.
The long answer to your question is: Heck, no.


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## Blue Tick (Apr 27, 2008)

> There was a guy named Gerald Tanner who years ago became converted out of Mormonism and started the Modern Microfilm Company that exposed a lot of this cult's frauds, such as Smith's plagiarism of Masonic temple ritual to make it Mormon temple ritual, and Smith's council of 70 were all Masons, so they had to know of the fraud. When Smith was lynched in Navoo City, Ill., his last words on earth were the Masonic high sign of distress, by which he knew fellow Masons in the lynch mob were honor bound to save him. I don't think this was merely a sincerely-misguided man. I think he was a knowing fraud.



Here's an interview with Gerald Tanner's widow. Gerald has since gone to glory.

The Ancient Paths: The Ancient Paths - Episode 7: Interview with Sandra Tanner


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## gene_mingo (Apr 27, 2008)

No, Mormons are polytheists. They are trying to redefine what the word christian means.


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## danmpem (Apr 27, 2008)

gene_mingo said:


> No, Mormons are polytheists. They are trying to redefine what the word christian means.



That may be true for some, but I think it may be more accurate to error in the generalization that LDS leaders teach a form of henotheism - the belief in many gods but the worship of only one. (I know a lot of people here will want to cite the Journal of Discourses and such to show that LDS theology teaches that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are separate deities, but so many of my friends who are members believe them to be one, and worship them as one).


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## Herald (Apr 27, 2008)

Blue Tick said:


> > Perhaps I am too simplistic but I believe the answer is plain. No, Mormons do not worship the God of the Bible. They deny that the Father is Spirit, the deity of Christ and of the Holy Spirit.
> 
> 
> Bill, your correct in your simplicity. However, many Mormons especially those in Salt Lake have not heard about the God of the Bible. The purpose of these debates is to draw a clear distinction between Mormons and Christians. If you ask a Mormon today they'll no longer deny that their Christians rather they affirm that they are Christians.



John, I understand that. But that does not change the reality of the situation. They affirm they are Christians but they are not. Because of their theology regarding the nature of the Father, Son and Spirit, they are not Christians nor do they worship the God of the bible.


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## HaigLaw (Apr 27, 2008)

Blue Tick said:


> Here's an interview with Gerald Tanner's widow. Gerald has since gone to glory.
> 
> The Ancient Paths: The Ancient Paths - Episode 7: Interview with Sandra Tanner



A remarkable interview. I listened to parts of it. The sincerity and truth of the Tanners is hard to deny. The audio was bad, but it may be my system. Well worth the time to listen to this lady. 

The simple truth of her testimony is -- we studied Mormonism and it is not what it claims to be, and in the process came to faith in Christ.

The host interviewer is an OPC pastor in the Salt Lake area.


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## hollandmin (Apr 27, 2008)

> Does Mormonism Worship the God of the Bible?



NOPE


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## DMcFadden (Apr 27, 2008)

gene_mingo said:


> No, Mormons are polytheists. They are trying to redefine what the word christian means.



Sounds like the thread on who gets to define "Reformed."  Clearly, their saying that they are Christians does not make them so. Unfortunately, too many have effaced the differentiation, either out of evangelical latitudinarianism (e.g., Osteen) or a theological fetish for "dialog" at all costs (e.g., Mouw).

Mouw, pres of Fuller, went to Salt Lake in November 2004 to speak at the Salt Lake Tabernacle in Temple Square, where he opined:



> I know that I have learned much in this continuing dialogue, and I am now convinced that we evangelicals have often seriously misrepresented the beliefs and practices of the Mormon community. Indeed, let me state it bluntly to the LDS folks here this evening: we have sinned against you. The God of the Scriptures makes it clear that it is a terrible thing to bear false witness against our neighbors, and we have been guilty of that sort of transgression in things we have said about you. We have told you what you believe without making a sincere effort first of all to ask you what you believe.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Apr 27, 2008)

Does Mormonism worship the God of the Bible?
No!

From the founding heretic's mouth--
Joseph Smith: "God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...if you were to see Him today, you would see Him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man...we have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I wil refute that idea..." (Journal of Discourses, 6:3--4).


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## bookslover (Apr 27, 2008)

Actually, the push to get Mormons to be considered Christians began about 10 or 15 years ago when they added the subtitle "Another Testimony to Jesus Christ" to the Book of Mormon (a subtitle it had never had before).

They ain't Christians and never were.


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## HaigLaw (Apr 27, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Clearly, their saying that they are Christians does not make them so. Unfortunately, too many have effaced the differentiation, either out of evangelical latitudinarianism (e.g., Osteen) or a theological fetish for "dialog" at all costs (e.g., Mouw).
> 
> Mouw, pres of Fuller, went to Salt Lake in November 2004 to speak at the Salt Lake Tabernacle in Temple Square....



What came of this meeting -- pray tell?


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## HaigLaw (Apr 27, 2008)

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> From the founding heretic's mouth--
> Joseph Smith: "God Himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted man...if you were to see Him today, you would see Him like a man in form--like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man...we have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I wil refute that idea..." (Journal of Discourses, 6:3--4).



Do you find parallels between Smith's promise of heavenly planets cohabiting with multiple wives to the Islamic promise to their terroristic "martyrs" of 72 virgins?


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Apr 27, 2008)

HaigLaw said:


> Presbyterian Deacon said:
> 
> 
> > From the founding heretic's mouth--
> ...



Similarities perhaps, but Islam does not claim the martyr with his seventy-two virgins become "god."

Mormonism however declares that as you are, so once God was. And as God is, so you will become. 

Heresy is heresy, but I find this one a bit more troubling than the Islamic view.


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## danmpem (Apr 28, 2008)

While I agree with what has been said here, it is important for us, as Christians who are trying to reach the lost, to recognize the difference between:

1. LDS theology from the texts (the Standard Works)
2. LDS theology as it is taught in wards on Sundays and in Family Home Evening
& 3. The theology of a member within 'social Mormonism', so to speak. Meaning, the beliefs of an individual that may differ from the texts (Doctrines and Covenants, Journal of Discourses, etc), because God has revealed them to be so to that individual.

My LDS friends do not walk around being consciously motivated to do the will of God by thinking of specific rewards they may receive after they die (planets, wives, etc.). Some of them have told me about how they think about those things, and they appear not dissimilar to how a protestant might think about some specific rewards received in Heaven - acknowledging that God has revealed them to exist, but also accepting the ideas with a large amount of mystery toward them.

I'm not trying to defend any teachings within the LDS church at all. I am merely attempting to represent the ideology of individuals within the LDS community.


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## Blue Tick (Apr 28, 2008)

> What came of this meeting -- pray tell?



Ravi Zacharias spoke in the Mormon Tabernacle along with some evangelical professors such as Mouw, Bloomberg, and Hazen. During the introductory remarks Richard Mouw offered an apology to Mormons for the way Christians have treated Mormons in the past.

For the most part Ravi was ok. The problem was that there wasn't any antithesis in Ravi's "sermon/speech". He addressed Mormons and Christians similarly. 

To sum it up. The whole thing was really weird.


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## Blue Tick (Apr 28, 2008)

> While I agree with what has been said here, it is important for us, as Christians who are trying to reach the lost, to recognize the difference between:
> 
> 1. LDS theology from the texts (the Standard Works)
> 2. LDS theology as it is taught in wards on Sundays and in Family Home Evening
> ...




Dan, I appreciate your balanced view regarding the LDS attitude toward life in the "Church". One thing I would like to add is (At least in Salt Lake and the Provo area) there's a high level of subconscious anxiety in the life of the average LDS member. The reason why is because there's this underlying burden of never being good enough and the contant strive for perfection. Coupled with the LDS worldview that Jesus and Satan are brothers, they are save after all "that we can do"(2Nephi 2:23),they are the true and restored church, and putting their eternal trust completely in the words of Joseph Smith, ultimately brings a prime concoction for depression. Their life is built on a lie. The idea of rewards becoming a god, celestial marriage, families are forever, etc, distracts them from confronting the issues of sin and a Holy God.


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## BJClark (Apr 28, 2008)

Blue Tick;



> The idea of rewards becoming a god, celestial marriage, families are forever, etc, distracts them from confronting the issues of sin and a Holy God.



When I lived in Idaho I had many Mormon friends, when they tried to explain this celestial family thing to me, I looked at them and asked how that works..given The father/husband is the one who becomes a god and his family rules with him...whose family will a child actually rule with? The wifes family or the husbands family? According to the teachings it can be neither as they too would be god's of their own planet..as they have left their father and mother and started their own family..so they in turn would have their own planet to be god over and therefore could not rule with either family...

I found when they began to question some of the basic beliefs such as this and really took time to think about it..they began to question other teachings as well.


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## HaigLaw (Apr 28, 2008)

danmpem said:


> While I agree with what has been said here, it is important for us, as Christians who are trying to reach the lost, to recognize the difference between:
> 
> 1. LDS theology from the texts (the Standard Works)
> 2. LDS theology as it is taught in wards on Sundays and in Family Home Evening
> ...



I think this is a very important thing to remember for those who feel called to witness to Mormons. When I was a new Christian nearly 40 years ago, I majored in the cults for a few years, and came to realize an outsider has no credibility reaching out to a Mormon on the basis that Smith was a fraud and a nutcase, because what consoles them is the social framework of their church and what nice people they all are. And, yes, as another brother has commented, the elitism aspect can be a downer, and depressing for those who realize they cannot live up to it, but for many who don't think about it, that is part of its appeal as well -- being a part of a group that's a cut above the average person.


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## Blue Tick (Apr 28, 2008)

> I think this is a very important thing to remember for those who feel called to witness to Mormons. When I was a new Christian nearly 40 years ago, I majored in the cults for a few years, and came to realize an outsider has no credibility reaching out to a Mormon on the basis that Smith was a fraud and a nutcase, because what consoles them is the social framework of their church and what nice people they all are. And, yes, as another brother has commented, the elitism aspect can be a downer, and depressing for those who realize they cannot live up to it, but for many who don't think about it, that is part of its appeal as well -- being a part of a group that's a cut above the average person.




Well said.


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## MrMerlin777 (Apr 28, 2008)

With so many spin offs it's no wonder Mormons are so confused. (And I thought the "split Ps" were confusing  )

Of course when a group is started by a con man what does one expect.



*"Prairie Saint" denominations*
Church of Christ (Temple Lot) (Hedrickites) 
Church of Christ with the Elijah Message 
Church of Jesus Christ (Bickertonite) 
Church of Jesus Christ (Cutlerite) 
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Strangite) 
Community of Christ (largest "Prairie Saint" denomination) 
Lion of God Ministry 
Remnant Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 
Independent RLDS / Restoration Branches 
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 
Restored Church of Jesus Christ (Eugene O. Walton) 



*Rocky Mountains denominations*
Apostolic United Brethren 
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (LDS Church) - by far the largest Latter Day Saint denomination 
Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints 
Latter Day Church of Christ (Kingston Clan} 
The True and Living Church of Jesus Christ of Saints of the Last Days 
The United Latter-day Church of Jesus Christ 


*others.*
Aaronic Order 
Latter Day Church of Christ the Lamb 
The Latter Day Church of Jesus Christ 
Restoration Church of Jesus Christ


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## hollandmin (Apr 29, 2008)

The Mormon church should always be approached from the position of it being a Cult. There is no compatibility between Christian Orthodoxy and the LDS faith. They only common ground that we have with them is that we are both human. I must state that we need to witness to those who are in this very destructive religion and help them to see that there is life after Mormonism. Compassion and understanding is the key

just my


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## MrMerlin777 (Apr 29, 2008)

hollandmin said:


> The Mormon church should always be approached from the position of it being a Cult. There is no compatibility between Christian Orthodoxy and the LDS faith. They only common ground that we have with them is that we are both human. I must state that we need to witness to those who are in this very destructive religion and help them to see that there is life after Mormonism. Compassion and understanding is the key
> 
> just my




Most definitely, no disagreement here.


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## holyfool33 (Jun 7, 2008)

No Mormons don't they worship a henotheistic embodied dimeruge of there own creation and there all going to heel unless they repent and accept Christ I say this as an former Mormon.


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## HaigLaw (Jun 7, 2008)

yes, just as anyone who does not believe in the real Christ of the Bible.


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