# Mediatorial Office



## JM (Apr 17, 2007)

When did Christ become our mediator, in eternity or in time?


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## MW (Apr 17, 2007)

1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."

Although we say Christ was ordained before the foundation of the world to be the Mediator, 1 Pet. 1:20, yet mediation itself required Him to stand in the place of men, which He could only do by possessing full humanity. Hence Christ did not become our Mediator until He was manifest in the flesh.


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## JM (Apr 17, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> 1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
> 
> Although we say Christ was ordained before the foundation of the world to be the Mediator, 1 Pet. 1:20, yet mediation itself required Him to stand in the place of men, which He could only do by possessing full humanity. Hence Christ did not become our Mediator until He was manifest in the flesh.



Excellent.

Did Christ mediate for the Old Testament Saints and on what basis?


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## MW (Apr 17, 2007)

Yes, He mediated for them on the basis of the eternal counsel of God and by means of the Old Testament ordinances in which His work of mediation was foresignified by the Holy Spirit, Rev. 13:8; Heb. 9:8, 9.


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## Herald (Apr 17, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> 1 Tim. 2:5, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus."
> 
> Although we say Christ was ordained before the foundation of the world to be the Mediator, 1 Pet. 1:20, yet mediation itself required Him to stand in the place of men, which He could only do by possessing full humanity. Hence Christ did not become our Mediator until He was manifest in the flesh.



I'm agreeing with Matthew?  That's a first!


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## KMK (Apr 18, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Yes, He mediated for them on the basis of the eternal counsel of God and by means of the Old Testament ordinances in which His work of mediation was foresignified by the Holy Spirit, Rev. 13:8; Heb. 9:8, 9.



The OT priesthood never was a mediator, but merely a sign or a type, yes?

The fact that we, under the NT, do not have a fleshly mediator is nothing new. The OT saints had no true fleshly mediator either. Every (possible hyperbole) prayer uttered by an OT saint was spoken directly to the Lord.

Right????


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## JM (Apr 18, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Yes, He mediated for them on the basis of the eternal counsel of God and by means of the Old Testament ordinances in which His work of mediation was foresignified by the Holy Spirit, Rev. 13:8; Heb. 9:8, 9.



So, Christ became the mediator of the elect in eternity due to the eternal counsel or in time based on the incarnation?

I don't mean to be a bother, just trying to sort these things out.

Peace,

jason


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## Dieter Schneider (Apr 18, 2007)

The Mediatorship of Christ belongs to the realm of redemption. As the true Mediator He represents fully both God and man - in His incarnate state.


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## Civbert (Apr 18, 2007)

JM said:


> When did Christ become our mediator, in eternity or in time?




Both.


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## MW (Apr 18, 2007)

JM said:


> So, Christ became the mediator of the elect in eternity due to the eternal counsel or in time based on the incarnation?



The word "became" can be used in various ways. You will need to further define what you mean by it. I would consider the natural use of language to be important when speaking about such high mysteries, so I would use the word to speak of actuality, as we do when we say Christ became man.


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## MW (Apr 18, 2007)

KMK said:


> The OT priesthood never was a mediator, but merely a sign or a type, yes?
> 
> The fact that we, under the NT, do not have a fleshly mediator is nothing new. The OT saints had no true fleshly mediator either. Every (possible hyperbole) prayer uttered by an OT saint was spoken directly to the Lord.



A type signifies the Antitype in two ways. (1.) By comparison, whereby a person or function resembles the person or function of the Antitype. (2.) By contrast, whereby its weaknesses are set against the perfection of the Antitype. The priests performed the function of mediation and so resembled Christ in the sense that they represented men in things pertaining to God. However, they were temporary, earthly mediators, while Christ is a priest for ever serving in the tabernacle made without hands. His is perfect mediation, whereby He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.

Insofar as the OT saints exercised faith in the promises of God their prayers directed towards or at the temple were essentially prayers in the name of Christ, just as ours are. However, it would be an overstatement to say they had no true fleshly mediator. Hebrews teaches otherwise. The OT economy was not perfect, but pointed towards something better. That is why it had to be done away with.


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## JM (Apr 18, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> The word "became" can be used in various ways. You will need to further define what you mean by it. I would consider the natural use of language to be important when speaking about such high mysteries, so I would use the word to speak of actuality, as we do when we say Christ became man.



Yes, as an actuality, an event. When did Christ actually become the mediator?

j


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## MW (Apr 18, 2007)

JM said:


> Yes, as an actuality, an event. When did Christ actually become the mediator?j



When He took human nature.


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## JM (Apr 18, 2007)

Ok.

Christ didn't mediate for the OT saints before He became flesh?

[last question on this topic for few days while I think about it...promise!]

 

jm


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## MW (Apr 18, 2007)

JM said:


> Christ didn't mediate for the OT saints before He became flesh?



Yes, on the basis of the eternal counsel of God and by means of the types of the OT. The types looked forward to Christ being made flesh. It is only on the assumption (!) of Christ being made flesh that the types foresignified anything at all.


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## KMK (Apr 18, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> A type signifies the Antitype in two ways. (1.) By comparison, whereby a person or function resembles the person or function of the Antitype. (2.) By contrast, whereby its weaknesses are set against the perfection of the Antitype. The priests performed the function of mediation and so resembled Christ in the sense that they represented men in things pertaining to God. However, they were temporary, earthly mediators, while Christ is a priest for ever serving in the tabernacle made without hands. His is perfect mediation, whereby He is able to save to the uttermost them that come unto God by Him seeing He ever liveth to make intercession for them.
> 
> Insofar as the OT saints exercised faith in the promises of God their prayers directed towards or at the temple were essentially prayers in the name of Christ, just as ours are. However, it would be an overstatement to say they had no true fleshly mediator. Hebrews teaches otherwise. The OT economy was not perfect, but pointed towards something better. That is why it had to be done away with.



So the mediator was the same for both the Old and the New, but the 'economy' or 'dispensation' of worship was imperfect in the Old. This imperfect economy of the Old was necessary so that we, in the New, could have a vivid picture of Who the mediator is, and what the mediator does. And also so that we could see the glory of the perfection of the New.


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