# Um, Where is J. Mac? T4G 2012...



## Damon Rambo (May 3, 2011)

I just noticed today that J. Mac is not going to be at T4G next year! What gives? Could it be related to the Rick Warren/John Piper issue?

Speakers : Together for the Gospel


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## Osage Bluestem (May 3, 2011)

Maybe he's just getting old. He's up in age now.


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## Particular Baptist (May 3, 2011)

I noticed that too and was quite disappointed! Nothing against David Platt, Matt Chandler, and Kevin DeYoung, but John MacArthur is 'The Man', the Martyn Lloyd-Jones of our time, when it comes to The Gospel.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 3, 2011)

I don't know if he has other engagements of if he is just tired of the charismatic nature of the event.


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## Marrow Man (May 3, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> the charismatic nature of the event



 Please elaborate. I don't think a few Sovereign Grace folks raising hands during some hymns qualifies as a charismatic event.

Some communicated to me a few months ago that MacArthur was going to be leaving T4G. I don't remember why. You'll also notice that Sproul is missing, but I'm sure that because of his age and heath concerns.

I'm ashamed to say I'm not familiar with David Platt. I would appreciate if someone commented on him.

Damon, if you come back in 2012, we definitely have to grab lunch this time!


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## Damon Rambo (May 3, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> I don't know if he has other engagements of if he is just tired of the charismatic nature of the event.


 
I have been to two of the T4G's, and have not noticed a preponderance of Charismatic expression. Not unless you consider singing with passion "charismatic." More than half of the (original) speakers are Cessasionist.

I noticed R.C. isn't included, either, but I assume that this is for health reasons...or is it? I really wish there was a reason listed...

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Marrow Man said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > the charismatic nature of the event
> ...


 
Sweet. I am trying to get the Senior Pastor and a couple of my pastor friends, as well as one of my youth, together, to make a "road trip" this year.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 3, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Please elaborate. I don't think a few Sovereign Grace folks raising hands during some hymns qualifies as a charismatic event



Well maybe not charismatic in the true sense, but I always notice that when most of the other people are raising their hands and singing along to the praise music, Macarthur is frowning with his hands in his pockets.


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## Marrow Man (May 3, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Well maybe not charismatic in the true sense, but I always notice that when most of the other people are raising their hands and singing along to the praise music, Macarthur is frowning with his hands in his pockets.



That's interesting. Never did notice that. He did write _Charismatic Chaos_, though.


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## Herald (May 3, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> That's interesting. Never did notice that. He did write Charismatic Chaos, though.



Tim, come one now, wasn't that you running up and down the aisle with your hands in the air? You're among friends. Admit it.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 3, 2011)

Herald said:


> Tim, come one now, wasn't that you running up and down the aisle with your hands in the air? You're among friends. Admit it.



It is true that many people who are otherwise solidly conservative will often succumb to hand raising. I have sat behind Dr. Akin many times in chapel and seen him raise his hands in the air like he just don't care.


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## Jack K (May 3, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> I'm ashamed to say I'm not familiar with David Platt. I would appreciate if someone commented on him.



He's the new, super hot author of the book, _Radical_. I haven't read it, but it is supposedly a very challenging and well-argued critique of comfortable, consumer evangelicalism. He urges Christians to put feet to their faith and live radically for Christ. My wife says the book has good thoughts and is well-written, but says nothing I don't already agree with. It seems that for much of the evangelical world, though, the idea that God doesn't want us to just settle down to comfortable consumerism is viewed as groundbreaking insight.

But maybe I'm being snooty. Perhaps if I read the book with a humble attitude I'd find it challenges me, too.

Anyway, Platt is young, Baptist, and pastors a big church in Birmingham. And he's the latest hot ticket in the evangelical publishing world.


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## Damon Rambo (May 3, 2011)

Jack K said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > I'm ashamed to say I'm not familiar with David Platt. I would appreciate if someone commented on him.
> ...


 
And of course he is "reformed" in the Calvinistic sense (but this goes without saying at T4G). I got to meet him at the 2010 SENT conference. He was the "token" reformed guy that is there at every SENT event...(there is almost always JUST one, though). This year it was Matt Boswell.


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## TomVols (May 3, 2011)

When did MacArthur do the "If you are Calvinist and not dispensational, you're NOT really Calvinist" thing at his Shepherds Conference? I know many Reformed guys who have gone sour over Johnny Mac since then.


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## Damon Rambo (May 3, 2011)

TomVols said:


> When did MacArthur do the "If you are Calvinist and not dispensational, you're NOT really Calvinist" thing at his Shepherds Conference? I know many Reformed guys who have gone sour over Johnny Mac since then.


 
Funny, since Calvin was not dispensational!


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## TomVols (May 3, 2011)

True. MacArthur is good.....just not as good as he thinks


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## Marrow Man (May 3, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > Tim, come one now, wasn't that you running up and down the aisle with your hands in the air? You're among friends. Admit it.
> ...


 
In all honesty, I raise my hands every Lord's Day I'm in the pulpit. I often raise my hands in prayer (per 1 Timothy 2:8), and always to give the benediction (of course).

But not praise choruses.


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## BenjaminBurton (May 3, 2011)

So, Tim, if I visit I should probably keep my hands in my pockets?


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## Marrow Man (May 3, 2011)

BenjaminBurton said:


> So, Tim, if I visit I should probably keep my hands in my pockets?



Only if you don't want me to frown.


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## DMcFadden (May 4, 2011)

TomVols said:


> When did MacArthur do the "If you are Calvinist and not dispensational, you're NOT really Calvinist" thing at his Shepherds Conference? I know many Reformed guys who have gone sour over Johnny Mac since then.


 
At the 2007 Shepherds' Conference , John MacArthur delivered a controversial message entitled, "Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist is a Premillennialist." Sam Waldron wrote a reply: "MacARTHUR's MILLENNIAL MANIFESTO: A Friendly Response" which was positively commented on by Riddlebarger, Renihan, and Venema.


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## bookslover (May 4, 2011)

DMcFadden said:


> At the 2007 Shepherds' Conference , John MacArthur delivered a controversial message entitled, "Why Every Self-Respecting Calvinist is a Premillennialist." Sam Waldron wrote a reply: "MacARTHUR's MILLENNIAL MANIFESTO: A Friendly Response" which was positively commented on by Riddlebarger, Renihan, and Venema.


 
MacArthur has included that message in the first volume of his commentary on Luke (Luke 1-5), by the way.

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Osage Bluestem said:


> Maybe he's just getting old. He's up in age now.


 
MacArthur isn't THAT old (said the 58-year-old)! He'll be 72 on June 19.


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## PuritanCovenanter (May 4, 2011)

Someone asked me about T4G the other day. I still don't really know what it is. I guess I am in league with Trueman. Who Cares? lol But if it is a reason for me to go down and visit some PB brothers, I am all up for that one. When is it and where is it? I take it it is down in Louisville by the Powdered Wig's comment.


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## AThornquist (May 4, 2011)

All that I have heard from Dr. MacArthur is that he is uncomfortable with the direction of T4G and participating with young guys who are "gurus" in different areas. Dr. MacArthur spoke on this briefly in a Q&A a few months back, and also I have some contact with folks who are somewhat "inside" with "certain people"... I've known Pastor MacArthur wasn't going to participate for many months, but just haven't been at liberty to talk about it. It kind of bums me out but I'm subscribed to his podcast, so it's not like I can't listen to him.




DMcFadden said:


> Sam Waldron wrote a reply: "MacARTHUR's MILLENNIAL MANIFESTO: A Friendly Response" which was positively commented on by Riddlebarger, Renihan, and Venema.



What I think is funny is that Pastor Sam has written at least three books advocating amillenialism and his personal assistant is historic pre-mill.  It's a good thing though; having someone who isn't amill brings some eschatological balance to our church.


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## LawrenceU (May 4, 2011)

Re: R.C. Sproul. He no longer travels as he did in the past due to health reasons. At the last Expositor's Conference he was the guest speaker. The only reason he was able to make it was because it was within driving distance.

I have heard the same thing that Andrew has heard regarding MacArthur's participation. I think he brings up a valid point about the 'guru' mentality that seems to be so common in our market driven world. Yes, marketing even drives many things in the Reformed world.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 4, 2011)

LawrenceU said:


> Yes, marketing even drives many things in the Reformed world.



Case in point, the ESV.


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## CharlieJ (May 4, 2011)

I'd be interested to hear more about what this "guru" mentality consists of and what the alternatives are. Is he talking about the breakout sessions or the other main panelists? What separates a "guru" from a legitimate speaker?


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## Skyler (May 4, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> It is true that many people who are otherwise solidly conservative will often succumb to hand raising.



That _could_ be because it's in the Bible. I've noticed conservative people often tend to do things like the Bible says.


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## Jeffriesw (May 4, 2011)

I hadn't heard anything about Dr. MacArthur not being there until this thread, but I figured Dr. Sproul would not be there. I was at the Ligonier Ministries conference a few months ago in Orlando. His health was very poor, in fact He had just gotten out of the hospital the day before the conference if I remember correctly.

Sent from my I phone


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## AThornquist (May 4, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > It is true that many people who are otherwise solidly conservative will often succumb to hand raising.
> ...


 
Sure, but at least clapping isn't in the Bible.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 4, 2011)

AThornquist said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > Bill The Baptist said:
> ...


 
Psalm 47:1


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## Osage Bluestem (May 4, 2011)

bookslover said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > [/COLOR]
> ...


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## Berean (May 4, 2011)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Someone asked me about T4G the other day. I still don't really know what it is.



Right, Randy, it's in Lou-vull. Here's the site. Theme : Together for the Gospel


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## Particular Baptist (May 4, 2011)

I wonder if the 'guru' mentality is in part because of so many young pastors are being asked to fill pulpits, shepherd congregations, and be leaders in the Calvinistic world because of the percieved (whether correctly or not) lack of Calvinistic pastors and leaders. It does seem that many young pastors are at this conference as speakers, which is not questioning these men or any young pastors, but I think perhaps Dr. MacArthur percieves a lack of experience and the humble wisdom that comes from Pastoring a church for many years, like MacArthur has done now for over forty.

Also, it seems that if anyone can state the problems with the church today they are applauded by so many even though they don't necessarily give a solution, or see the solution, which is the Gospel and Faithfulness to Christ. Listening to Lloyd-Jones earlier today, he said that much of the time in the church, especially in the Reformed and Evangelical world, we can easily see all the problems that abound in our churches to the point that that is all we talk about. We consider ourselves experts in pointing out the problems. However, if the church was to experience revival in each of its individual members lives' and fall in love with Christ, then we would find the solution to our problems. I could be way out of line here, but that's something that I am seeing right now.


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## Osage Bluestem (May 4, 2011)

Maybe it's because many in the reformed community don't like Dr. Macarthur because he rejects covenant theology in favor of dispensationalism? Maybe they are slowly trying to cut ties with him as more young people come to bear?


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## JonathanHunt (May 4, 2011)

Maybe this thread is just a little too speculative


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## Osage Bluestem (May 4, 2011)

Joshua said:


> Maybe if T4G folks have been silent about it, and if Dr. MacArthur has been silent about it, just _maybe_ we should be too?


 
Indeed, there is probably good reason. Personally I just think it's his age and workload. He is probably just slowing down.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 4, 2011)

Damon Rambo said:


> Um, Where is J. Mac? T4G 2012...



Maybe he heard that people were starting to call him J.Mac and he just couldn't handle it anymore.


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## Poimen (May 4, 2011)

Joshua said:


> Maybe Jonathan Hunt has kidnapped Dr. MacArthur and wants this thread shut down so as not to cause unrest and further investigation into his dastardly deeds!



Maybe Josh has kidnapped Jonathan Hunt and has logged on through his account in order to ruin Jonathan's good name.


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## DMcFadden (May 4, 2011)

I would suggest that Osama bin Laden did it. But, oh, well . . . anyway . . .


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## JonathanHunt (May 4, 2011)

Poimen said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe Jonathan Hunt has kidnapped Dr. MacArthur and wants this thread shut down so as not to cause unrest and further investigation into his dastardly deeds!
> ...


 
help...me... I'm stuck in a basement with a yokel called Sirmon, he says he's working for his cousin Josh and he has a shotgun...!


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## Edward (May 4, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> Maybe this thread is just a little too speculative



That's certainly something we could speculate about.


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## awretchsavedbygrace (May 5, 2011)

Damon Rambo said:


> I just noticed today that J. Mac is not going to be at T4G next year! What gives? Could it be related to the Rick Warren/John Piper issue?
> 
> Speakers : Together for the Gospel


 
Best not to assume.


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## Damon Rambo (May 5, 2011)

awretchsavedbygrace said:


> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> > I just noticed today that J. Mac is not going to be at T4G next year! What gives? Could it be related to the Rick Warren/John Piper issue?
> ...


 
I was not looking to assume. I thought someone might have some real information.


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## bookslover (May 7, 2011)

Particular Baptist said:


> It does seem that many young pastors are at this conference as speakers, which is not questioning these men or any young pastors, but I think perhaps Dr. MacArthur percieves a lack of experience and the humble wisdom that comes from Pastoring a church for many years, like MacArthur has done now for over forty.


 
Well, naturally! You don't get the forty years experience and wisdom until you've done the forty years! You have to start somewhere - MacArthur himself had zero experience as a senior pastor when he took his church in 1969 (Grace Community is his only pastorate). And I'm sure that a pastor with 40 years' experience "perceived a lack of experience" in MacArthur, too. 

Perceiving a lack of experience in young men with a lack of experience is a rather banal point, don't you think?


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## AThornquist (May 8, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> AThornquist said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, but at least clapping isn't in the Bible.
> ...



I know.  And there are several other references as well. I was just poking fun at the notion that clapping has is worldly in worship, etc.

Also, I'm not sure why there is so much speculation about Dr. Mac not attending because of age or disagreements within the Reformed community. In my first point I gave you what he directly asserted: he doesn't like the direction T4G is going, especially with young pastors serving as gurus in different areas.


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## BlackCalvinist (May 8, 2011)

It's a bit sad that he doesn't like the direction T4G is going in.


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## Kiffin (May 9, 2011)

AThornquist said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > AThornquist said:
> ...



Could you link us to that Q&A you're referring to?


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## AThornquist (May 9, 2011)

Kiffin said:


> Could you link us to that Q&A you're referring to?



Sorry, I don't know the link and don't have the time to look for it. I'm pretty sure I listened to it as a podcast. If you want to find it, just check gty.org and the different Q&A's; I didn't care to take note of which it was since I was already aware that MacArthur wouldn't be preaching at T4G 2012. Since my pastors are associated with some of the main speakers of T4G, we were made aware months ago of this matter via a conference call. It's not like this is a big deal or that it's trying to be kept a secret, but MacArthur is trying to pull out peacefully and so he is giving brief, fairly vague explanations to those who ask why he doesn't want to preach there anymore. He's handling it commendably. 

By the way, MacArthur said at this year's Shepherd's Conference that he is feeling his best in years because of a successful surgery; he basically said he is able and ready to teach now more than ever, which pretty quickly removes the speculation that not associating with T4G any longer is because of health.


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## Kiffin (May 9, 2011)

It just leaves everyone a little curious on what part of the "direction" he's uncomfortable with. It can't be the whole charismatic/SG thing because he's sharing a platform with Mahaney at the Resolved Conference coming up. So it just must be the "young guru" guy thing then...lol


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## AThornquist (May 9, 2011)

I understand what you mean, and I agree. I'm not sure what exactly he is uncomfortable with in detail, but it's clear that his desire at this point isn't to set up a campaign against that direction. It seems to me (for however little that is worth) that he's seeking to maintain unity by quietly stepping off the stage. There is always another venue for him to teach at.


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## BlackCalvinist (May 9, 2011)

I wish he wasn't leaving....but he's still one of my heroes in the faith.


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## Damon Rambo (May 9, 2011)

I am sorry, but if Macarthur is not coming because of "young" guys preaching (wonder what he is calling young...MOST preachers are young compared to Macarthur!), and I have no reason to doubt Andrew, then I am even more upset...cause that is a stupid reason. The "young" guys are all solidly reformed, substantial guys; it's not as if T4G invited Joel Osteen to teach! Guys like Matt Chandler are good teachers, and great examples of godly men...


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## LawrenceU (May 9, 2011)

I don't think it is the fact that there are young guys preaching. It is that often is seems to be that in our current milieu those young men either take on a role that traditionally has been held by proven elders or they have that view placed upon them. The elder statesmen is often ignored in today's market driven church. They don't sell all that well. The church needs the wisdom and experience of elders, real elders, as in old elders.


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## Damon Rambo (May 9, 2011)

LawrenceU said:


> I don't think it is the fact that there are young guys preaching. It is that often is seems to be that in our current milieu those young men either take on a role that traditionally has been held by proven elders or they have that view placed upon them. The elder statesmen is often ignored in today's market driven church. They don't sell all that well. The church needs the wisdom and experience of elders, real elders, as in old elders.


 
Eldership has nothing to do with age; look at what Paul told Timothy. Not only that, some of these "young guys" have been Pastor for 15 to 20 years, and shepherd some of the most Biblical, not to mention vibrant, congregations in the country...I think they are qualified.

The idea that one must be old to have wisdom, leadership, and insight, is not a Biblical one.


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## Herald (May 9, 2011)

For all of you who are so concerned with why John MacArthur will not be speaking at T4G; pick up the phone, call, and ask him. The shortest point between conjecture and the truth is a direct conversation.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 9, 2011)

Herald said:


> For all of you who are so concerned with why John MacArthur will not be speaking at T4G; pick up the phone, call, and ask him. The shortest point between conjecture and the truth is a direct conversation.



But I would much rather build my post county by making speculations and then discussing those speculations with others as if it were true.


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## Andres (May 9, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> But I would much rather build my post county



your post "county"? Is that like a thingy or a doo-hicky?


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## Marrow Man (May 9, 2011)

Andres said:


> your post "county"? Is that like a thingy or a doo-hicky?



More like a "watchamacallit."


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## Herald (May 9, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> More like a "watchamacallit."



Fuhgedabodit.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 9, 2011)

Actually it is synonymous with a thingamabopper


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## au5t1n (May 9, 2011)

I called him and asked. 

He said the proper term is whosamajigi.


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## Andres (May 9, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > your post "county"? Is that like a thingy or a doo-hicky?
> ...


 
Oh man, now I'm craving one of these!


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## Marrow Man (May 9, 2011)

Now Andrew. I specifically said a "watchamacallit." You posted a "whatchamacallit." Totally different things.


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## Andres (May 9, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Now Andrew. I specifically said a "watchamacallit." You posted a "whatchamacallit." Totally different things.


 
Pastor Rev Timothy Phillips, 

Please accept my deepest apologies for my wanton carelessness which lead to my reprehensible misreading of your post. It shant happen again. 

Sincerely, 
Andrew


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## Marrow Man (May 9, 2011)




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## Marrow Man (May 9, 2011)

Andres said:


> Pastor Rev Timothy Phillips,



How come I don't get a cool name like "J. Mac"?


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## Notthemama1984 (May 9, 2011)

Only cool people get cool names?


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## Andres (May 10, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > Pastor Rev Timothy Phillips,
> ...


 
Pastor T.P. ?


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## LawrenceU (May 10, 2011)

Damon Rambo said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think it is the fact that there are young guys preaching. It is that often is seems to be that in our current milieu those young men either take on a role that traditionally has been held by proven elders or they have that view placed upon them. The elder statesmen is often ignored in today's market driven church. They don't sell all that well. The church needs the wisdom and experience of elders, real elders, as in old elders.
> ...


 
Damon, if you will notice I said nothing about the men being qualified or unqualified to be elders. I also said nothing about eldership having anything to do with age. Neither did I say that young men cannot or do not have wisdom, leadership ability, or insight. What I did say is that our culture tends to push aside or ignore men who have gained even more wisdom, insight, and ability to lead over the course of their lives simply because they are older and there are younger men about who can also do a good job. Time as an elder can and should give valuable experience. I have served as an elder for a long time. One thing that I learned early on is that often those older shepherds who have laboured a long time among God's flock have gained some things that we younger men needed to hear and learn. Until fairly recently older, proven elders where the role models of younger ministers. This has changed a great deal in the last 40 years or so, about a little more than a generation behind the same shift that took place in the culture at large, which is usually the case in cultural shifts.

I will admit that there are things that younger elders have to say that need to be heard as well. What concerns men is that what seems to be happening is that a new young leader shows upon the radar screen and there is an almost wholesale move to pattern things after him, then a little while later another man blips and then folks move to follow him, this seems to cycle every three years or so and has been for a while. One can see it in the sequential ministry philosophy shifts that take place in churches led by young pastors and in other areas.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 10, 2011)

I agree that age is not neccesarily an issue, but we must still recognize that those with age also have experience, and experience is very valuable.


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## Rich Koster (May 10, 2011)

I would like to see a conference where 100+ Reformed pastors were in attendance, and no speaker was scheduled. At the time of arrival, every ordained man would be prepared to lecture on a topic of their choosing beforehand. The speakers would be chosen by random pick. It may sound strange, but it may be quite interesting and edifying.


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