# Have any of you



## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

ever lost the desire to go to church?

Maybe we can discuss this without fighting. I like to read my Bible and pray but lately, I just don't want to go to church. I don't want to really share why (I'm not going to talk about my church on here) but have any of you felt like this?


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## Puritanhead (Aug 24, 2006)

Yeah, who hasn't?


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 24, 2006)

and I love my church! I just have a very difficult time desiring to get up early and go especially when I only get every other weekend off and I am NOT a morning person at all.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> Yeah, who hasn't?



Thanks for taking me seriously. I apologize for posting.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 24, 2006)

Brian, it's not a big deal. You can continue the post.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Brian, it's not a big deal. You can continue the post.


 



> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> ...


 I am sorry I offended you, but it wasn't my intention. I don't know what else there is to say. We get in the flesh as sinners, and sometimes the desire for fellowship dries up. I was being confessional, not sarcastic. Sometimes, brevity is the best answer. That was my two cents; there is no stopping others from contributing a more edifying answer.

_When I Don't Desire God_ by John Piper.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

Ryan, thank you. I believe you. Maybe I should just get off the computer for now. I don't work today so I can find something else to do I guess.

I'm sorry I took offense. I take offense to a lot of things, maybe God wants me to avoid people altogether. Thank you very much for the link.

Thanks to you too Adam. God bless you both.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

Some interesting books at that link too. Thanks alot Ryan.


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## Gregg (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> ever lost the desire to go to church?
> 
> Maybe we can discuss this without fighting. I like to read my Bible and pray but lately, I just don't want to go to church. I don't want to really share why (I'm not going to talk about my church on here) but have any of you felt like this?



I have before. Mostly because of lack of edification. Also, (sometimes) because of a very introverted personality, I have a hard time feeling like I fit in/belong.

[Edited on 8-24-2006 by Gregg]


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## BobVigneault (Aug 24, 2006)

Brian I have no doubt that Ryan was being absolutely sincere. It has been my experience as well to know countless people who have suffered from what they call 'burnout'. It's especially common amongst we 'puritan' types because we have set the standards so high. (Maintaining biblical and historic standards would be more accurate to say.)

In fact I have friends who have told me that they are tired of going to church but they have to because they are the pastors. That is funny but it is also true.

You need to figure out whether your 'fatigue' is physical or spiritual or both. You need to re-tool the way you think about corporate worship understanding first that it is not something we are to measure by what we get out of it. That's a tough one. That's the complaint I hear most often. We need to examine what our own input ought to be.

You ask a very good question and it's one we have discussed here before and is worth discussing again and looking for fresh input. Keep posting brother.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Gregg_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> ...



I hear ya. I too feel that way many times. I am in sad shape. I am highly introverted and TRY to be extroverted. It is discouraging when your efforts result in the knowledge of being relatively invisible.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> Brian I have no doubt that Ryan was being absolutely sincere. It has been my experience as well to know countless people who have suffered from what they call 'burnout'. It's especially common amongst we 'puritan' types because we have set the standards so high. (Maintaining biblical and historic standards would be more accurate to say.)
> 
> In fact I have friends who have told me that they are tired of going to church but they have to because they are the pastors. That is funny but it is also true.
> ...



Hey Bob, thank you for your advice. We haven't always agreed but I do believe you are very wise. 

I understand that we aren't to focus on what we get out of worship. I realize that it is more about what I can do for others. But right now I just don't feel like I can do anything for anyone and I sometimes feel invisible. I'm probably not a pastor/teacher type of guy and even if I were, I could never ask to try it out at my church. I got the big brush off when I enthusiastically proclaimed that I'd love to help with the church's radio show. So basically, I just feel like a pew warmer and I can more conveniently warm my couch and watch church on tv. But I know this is not the ideal thing to do.

Thanks again Bob.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> Ryan, thank you. I believe you. Maybe I should just get off the computer for now. I don't work today so I can find something else to do I guess.
> 
> I'm sorry I took offense. I take offense to a lot of things, maybe God wants me to avoid people altogether. Thank you very much for the link.
> ...


 Man, I've had one of those overanalytical past years where I took offense at a lot of things... so no hard feelings. I just made amends with someone else who had unintentionally rubbed me the wrong way earlier.


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## beej6 (Aug 24, 2006)

Hey brothers,

Keep fighting the devil ;-). He'd love it if you didn't attend church. Note that I am NOT saying that if you don't go, you're a devil worshipper. I'm a firm believer in progressive sanctification - it doesn't give us license to sin, but when we do, we are neither damned for it.

I've often wondered about a Reformed way to prevent "worship burnout." For one, I think it's sad that we don't often have a chance to worship together with our Reformed brethren in other churches. Sunday evening worships, it seems to me, would be a great time for, say, Church A to en masse (but perhaps with some forewarning) attend a service at Church B.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

No problem Ryan. 

I hear you BJ.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 24, 2006)

One of my frustrations has been that I want _substance_, not _milk_ and _baby-food_; and don't always find it forthcoming. Draughts might leave one wondering why they go regularly, and eventually less frequent attendance can creep up on any mature believer. 

Pastors have confessionally told me they have to dumb down things to varying degrees and balance how they feed their flock. Well, sometimes they over do it, and dumb things down too much. A congregation that is by and large immature, can impair other believers from growing, so perhaps one might be come to the painful realization that they belong to the wrong congregation or church body. 

I believe that even amidst substantive sermons that might lose some people, God still works and illuminates his truth. Besides, it sharpens minds as well to be compelled to entertain substance, and not fluff and light-weight messages all the time.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

I understand what you're saying. On the other hand, my pastor "smartens up" his sermons. He is good at the big, intellectual words. lol

I just wish I'd feel like more than a pew warmer there. They don't even need help in the LIBRARY!


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## Puritanhead (Aug 24, 2006)

Well, conversely I think some pastors can overdo it. Recent seminarians without much experience can overwhelm people with their theological lexicon, and they don't always provide much edification to anyone in doing so. Some extrabiblical words in systematics are not appropriate for the pulpit. It would be a cold day in hell before I tried to explain supralapsarianism and infralapsarianism. That discussion is moot and isn't integral anyway. There is a balancing act.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 24, 2006)

LOL yeah, you're right. My pastor is experienced though and is a good teacher. But he does like to use the big words. My pastor is a good teacher...but I don't KNOW the man. I am not close to him at all, much like I'm not close to anybody at all in my church. And a few of them are my cousins. Well, third cousins.


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## Craig (Aug 24, 2006)

Does your church have a men's group? Maybe that would be a good thing? 

I have had the VERY same feelings about my current church. It is important that you try to connect...sometimes it's very hard...depending on personalities, you may never get to know someone as well as you'd like to.

Men's groups provide a great way for men to learn together and get to know each other better. If your church has one, you should consider getting involved. If you don't, you may want to consider talking to your pastor about it. You may be surprised...even if no group starts up, that could be the "ice breaker". After dwelling in the shadows for a while, sometimes it's difficult to start conversation or for others to know what to think of you. Doing something will at least wake up your pastor to the fact he has a parishioner interested in the church.


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## Pilgrim (Aug 24, 2006)

> _Originally posted by beej6_
> Hey brothers,
> 
> Keep fighting the devil ;-). He'd love it if you didn't attend church. Note that I am NOT saying that if you don't go, you're a devil worshipper. I'm a firm believer in progressive sanctification - it doesn't give us license to sin, but when we do, we are neither damned for it.
> ...



B J,

That is a good idea. Pulpit exchanges are good too. But it is difficult if you are in an area (like me) where you are isolated. One thing that is helpful is to have congregational meals. We usually have at least 1 or 2 per month. 

It is also much harder to get to know people in a large church, say more than 300.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 25, 2006)

I don't know if our church has a men's group so much as a men's Bible study before church. I haven't been to it in a long time. I should check it out.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> I am not close to him at all, much like I'm not close to anybody at all in my church.


 "A man who has friends must himself be friendly..." ( Proverbs 18:24) 

Seek more fellowship.


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## kceaster (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> ...



That, to me, hits the nail on the head. I think one of the reasons why we get so burnt out is that we don't really have a good chance to fellowship. And I'm not talking about having polite conversations before and after church. I'm talking about real relationships that live life together. And I do not believe that there are many in the Reformed community who experience this.

Ask any pastor and he'll say that seminary was tough, but the fellowship was better than any he's ever experienced. I've heard this from many men. The reason that they didn't get burned out or lost their zeal is because they were in the trenches, fighting the same battles, and being an encouragement to their comrades in arms.

This is a difficult thing to get in many churches. I hate to say this, but I found more esprit d' corps in the Marines than I have in churches. And many times, this close relationship and living life together is what gets us through tough times when we're lethargic and complacent. We can have our worship down pat and everyone in the church reciting the WCF, but still get burnt out. Why? It's because the one or two times we get together each week is not enough to last us.

Unfortunately, when we get into situations like this, our tendency is to spend LESS time together instead of more. That only makes it worse.

That's my experience anyway. I'd be curious to know if anyone else has been through this.

Blessings,

KC


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## ChristopherPaul (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> It's especially common amongst we 'puritan' types because we have set the standards so high. (Maintaining biblical and historic standards would be more accurate to say.)



This is a great observation and it resonates with me.

Prior to discovering the reformation, I rarely had the desire to NOT go to church (I say "œrarely" and avoid saying "œnever," because although I can´t recall any times, I am sure there _had_ to be one or two in times that I didn´t feel like going "“ but I doubt it) I loved church and was more depressed thinking of not going than going. The fellowship was outstanding. My wife and kids were part of a small group and those friends were closer than family to us (and are still to this day even though we no longer lead the small group nor attend the same church). It was not until IO began questioning things that I became dissatisfied. I no longer agreed with the church´s teachings and did not respect the credentials of the speakers and was convicted that the worship was not God-centered. So I became frustrated and did not want to go any longer. 

As God increased, I decreased along with my desire to attend that particular church. It lost any appeal to me. It was not a spiritual hospital but a boiling pot of frustration that stirred up shameful pride and arrogance within me.

I now attend a PCA church which is much better in teaching than the former Willow Creek model church I attended before but is lacking in fellowship. I admit that I am again loosing my zeal for even her. But again it is due to a different set of standards.


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## Ivan (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> ...



Chris,

Might it be more accurate to say that you lost the desire to attend that particular church, but not to attend church? I see a difference.


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## BobVigneault (Aug 25, 2006)

Amen Chris, you're spilling my guts. I used to go to a church that had the best show in town. Why wouldn't we be happy? It was all about us. The teaching was about us and family dynamics and being a better father, employee, friend, wife, athlete and how to get self actualized. There was always a new wave of catch phrases and books to study. The music was bouncy and we had musical depth like you couldn't believe. I was the sound/video production tech. It was a marvelous show. Movies clips, quick edits, drama and the best entertainment this side of Branson. I say in the most biblical sense, "It was the best damned show in town."


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## Ivan (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by kceaster_
> That, to me, hits the nail on the head. I think one of the reasons why we get so burnt out is that we don't really have a good chance to fellowship. And I'm not talking about having polite conversations before and after church. I'm talking about real relationships that live life together. And I do not believe that there are many in the Reformed community who experience this.



I think it's a problem in our society in general. We don't have the solid connectedness with others as we did in the past. In fact, I don't think families are as close as they once were. 

The church has a golden opportunity to be the place where people connect with God and other believers. Unfortunately, that is not the experience of most churches. We made have every "t" crossed and every "i" dotted as far as our theology, but if our churches are not places where authentic fellowship occurs, well, we are missing the boat. We aren't all that God wants us to be.

God may give me the opportunity to be a pastor again in the very near future. I pray so. If I become pastor of this little Baptist church I want it to become a place of worship where believers connect with God and with others. Yes, I want our doctrine to be pure and I want our lives to be holy, but I also want others to know that they can come to our church and be loved and respected.


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 25, 2006)

Thanks for your posts everyone.

I agree. One must be friendly. I am very friendly, however, the problem is that I am very friendly usually to people who notice that I am there. I can do small talk but nobody really knows me and I don't really know anyone else.


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## ChristopherPaul (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



I certainly lost the desire to attend that particular church which was simply _church_ for me just like your particular church is church for you. If you lack a desire to go to church, then you are by implication saying you lack the desire to attend the church you currently belong to.

I don't think I lack a desire to attend church _if_ that church is functioning on all cylinders. The problem is no church is perfect and no person's standards and expectations are perfect either.


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## ChristopherPaul (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistCanuk_
> Thanks for your posts everyone.
> 
> I agree. One must be friendly. I am very friendly, however, the problem is that I am very friendly usually to people who notice that I am there. I can do small talk but nobody really knows me and I don't really know anyone else.



Don´t concern yourself too much with being gifted with "œsmall talk". I am not very skilled with it myself, but I do not see that as a problem I need to work on. Small talk is very superficial and often dishonest. The people of the church need to be joining brothers and sisters in their homes and breaking bread together.

You can tell how close the people of the church are by their prayer requests. During prayer requests I often think that I truly need to express that I need prayer because I simply feel wretched and sinful. I need help with unbelief and pride and selfishness, etc. So I raise my hand and what comes out of my mouth? "œPray for my coworker´s mom, she is struggling with cancer."


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## ChristopherPaul (Aug 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> Amen Chris, you're spilling my guts. I used to go to a church that had the best show in town. Why wouldn't we be happy? It was all about us. The teaching was about us and family dynamics and being a better father, employee, friend, wife, athlete and how to get self actualized. There was always a new wave of catch phrases and books to study. The music was bouncy and we had musical depth like you couldn't believe. I was the sound/video production tech. It was a marvelous show. Movies clips, quick edits, drama and the best entertainment this side of Branson. I say in the most biblical sense, "It was the best damned show in town."



Exactly - we enjoyed the carnival. We would play clips from Pearl Jam videos, movies such as Shrek and American Beauty. It was really cool. I was in the worship band at my carnival church and the first thing people would do after playing the closing song would to complement us on our riffs and what not and ask about our instruments and pedals and stuff like that. God used those situations to make me stop and think. Looking back, it was a great time, but it was not quite church.

But we digress"¦


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## BaptistCanuk (Aug 25, 2006)

I agree. I see small talk as superficial and often dishonest. I want to know people more and I want them to know me more. But then self-preservation kicks in and I avoid it. Ahh...it's a vicious circle.


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