# Waltke vs. Packer? Finding God's Will



## Mathetes (Mar 31, 2012)

There's a book that I've had on my wishlist for a while now but haven't gotten around to acquiring it yet:

Finding the Will of God: A Pagan Notion?



> Publisher Review:
> For many, trying to discover "God's will" is a confusing and frustrating process. In an effort to divine God's will, people try praying harder, meditating more on Scripture, or briefly living a better life. But as this insightful book shows, such activities have more in common with paganism than with biblical Christianity.
> 
> Exploring a misunderstood area of Christian concern, Bruce Waltke asks, Can we ever know God's will? In pursuit of a satisfying answer, he examines many practices that Christians pass off as divine guidance — following hunches, casting lots, looking for signs, and others — and suggests that such practices actually bear an unsettling resemblance to the ways pagans seek divine guidance. Instead, Waltke gently shows readers that the truest course to the will of God is found in faithfully answering the call to walk close to the Lord and be conformed to his likeness. Only then will we have the heart of God and know what pleases him.
> ...



But then today I saw a new book from J.I. Packer:

(edit: I _thought_ it was new, but apparently it's just a republished version of this book)

God's Will: Finding Guidance for Everyday Decisions



> Publisher's Description: Seeking God's guidance is a focus for many believers. We want to know what God has planned for our lives. Are we making the right decision? Are we in his will? For some people, knowing God is guiding their lives makes them relax and enjoy the ride. But others fear making the wrong choice and find themselves paralyzed as they wait for signs from above. J. I. Packer and Carolyn Nystrom answer these fears with God's Will.
> 
> With solid biblical footing, they shed light on the notion of God's guidance in response to the many misunderstandings well-meaning Christians can have. Readers seeking God's will in major life decisions, as well as anyone interested in understanding how God guides us, will welcome this practical and inspiring book.



So what do you think? Are Waltke and Packer at odds here? I realize we're judging two books by some brief blurbs (unless someone owns them) but on the face of it, it seems like they're working towards mutually exclusive goalposts.


----------



## Jack K (Mar 31, 2012)

I haven't read either book, but from other stuff Waltke has published I will say he does believe Christians can know God's will... just not through the pagan shortcuts many try to take. You learn to live in a way that's in line with God's will by getting to know God through the Bible, prayer, the wise counsel of other believers and so on. "One does not divine God's will. One lives God's will as one comes to know Him through His word." - Waltke

I can't imagine Packer's method would be all that different from this. I suspect most of the apparent difference is in the book titles and marketing approaches taken by the publishers. That's my guess.


----------



## Mathetes (Mar 31, 2012)

I kind of got that impression too, since the descriptions of Waltke's book hints at the pagan leanings of certain Christian's practices. However, the basic premise of whether it is benficial, or even proper, to seek after God's will seemed to tug in the opposite direction of Packer's book. I'll eventually get both and find out, I guess.

Then again, I'm surprised Packer doesn't have a blurb on Waltke's book. A commendation by Packer seems to be as essential to any new Christian book these days as the price sticker or table of contents.


----------



## A5pointer (Mar 31, 2012)

I once heard McArthur speaking on this. He said he receives many letters asking him to pray about leaving his church to lead their church. He said I do pray about it. I pray God won't send me there. His point was along the lines these books seem to take.


----------



## jwithnell (Mar 31, 2012)

Know God's word, specifically the law, and seek Godly counsel when warranted. I just saved you $20 

Seriously, it sounds like both books are trying to steer people away from feelings and hunches that now pass for "knowing God's will." If I had to choose, I'd go with Mr. Packer's book primarily because I am familiar with his other works.


----------



## Alan D. Strange (Mar 31, 2012)

I've not read Packer's, though from the descriptions on Amazon and given the customary Packer cogency, I would expect it to be a fine book on the subject. Bruce Waltke is coming at things from a different angle, one that is both perceptive and needed: much of what passes for the quest for divine guidance is really a quest to know what it is not given to us to know (Deut. 29:29), having more in common with pagan divination than attending to the will of God as He has revealed it to us. We know God's will because we seek His face in His Word and endeavor to walk therein as enabled by the Holy Spirit. 

It seems to me that, though Packer and Waltke may be coming at this a bit differently, much of what they conclude and advise is similar. Waltke's book does have some signifcant insights and correctives for the misguided thinking that seems to have emerged with respect to this subject. Not to complicate matters further, but I've often recommended for those interested in the subject Sinclair Ferguson's _Discovering God's Will_. I hope that it is still available.

Peace,
Alan


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Mar 31, 2012)

J. Packer's book, _Finding God's Will_, is a short read full of useful guidance, too.

*I think it begins by fully integrating God's will into every aspect of our lives*. This comes from a thorough understanding of the Scriptures, so we can obey what God has already commanded us to do and how to live (_praxis_), see Proverbs 6:22. This walk of sanctification increases our God-given common sense, too, so that we should not be calling upon the Lord for every little decision in our lives. Studying the Scriptures helps us to know what God thinks about a myriad of topics, so we should have the answers to many important questions in front of us. This way God's will is often so clear that only obedience, and not guidance is necessary.

*We also have to be willing to do what God says to do*. Sometimes a person already has an answer in mind and is unwilling to accept any other when seeking God's guidance. And guide us He will: Psalms 25:12, 32:8, Proverbs 3:6, Isaiah 58:11, Colossians 1:9.

*It should go without saying that we must very specifically ask, with a readiness to obey, for guidance when we need it (James 1:58)*. Accompany this with trusting God in the matter (Phil. 4:6,7), keeping a watch out for guidance in your daily devotionals, and seeking the counsel of the brothers and sisters in Christ (Proverbs 11:14).

The _tricky part_, if you will, is discerning the answer. We have to understand that guide is guiding us in our decision making processes, that what we are discovering as we work out things is not mere accident. I think Acts 17:16 offers an answer:

"_Now while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols._"

I become very worried when people start saying, "_the Lord spoke to me today_" or "_I don't do anything unless the Lord tells me to do it_", etc., as if God is actually directly speaking to someone. God does not ordinarily provide special revelation outside of his Word now that the foundation of our faith is laid in it by the prophets and apostles in His Word. Furthermore, God has told us not to seek "_signs and wonders._"

Rather than seeking the Lord to give us direct revelation, we should be content with God’s provision in His word (our only infallible rule of practice and faith) to guide us as to what is his will for our lives, what He commands us and expects of us concerning Him, and to know how great the love of Christ is to us. 

Murray writes in _The Guidance of the Holy Spirit_: 
“The moment we desire or expect or think that a state of our consciousness is the effect of a direct intimation of us of the Holy Spirit’s will, or consists in such an intimation and is therefore in the category of special direction from him, then we have given way to the notion of special, direct, detached communication from the Holy Spirit. And this, in respect of its nature, belongs to the same category as belief in special revelation”​ 
Some will claim they had a vision about God's will or a burden about this or that, when what they really mean is that they had some "_impression_". If that impression is Scripturally sound, I think it proper to say the impression was a nudge by the Holy Spirit, just as Paul was "_provoked within him_". Many persons expect some "road to Damascus" like answer from God, failing to note that Paul was not even looking for guidance from God on that fateful road!

We should also realize that not every non-moral decision facing us has a single right answer. Leveraging the factors described above, we must decide and trust that God will accomplish His will. "_for it is God who works in you, both to will and to work for his good pleasure._" (Philippians 2:13).


AMR

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## jwithnell (Apr 1, 2012)

> This comes from a thorough understanding of the Scriptures, so we can obey what God has already commanded us to do and how to live


I've noticed over the years that the churches that talk most about seeking God's will eliminate God's law in the name of grace. They are also likely _not_ to be preaching the full counsel of God's word in a systematic way.

Reactions: Like 1


----------

