# How to act towards Catholics



## John Knox (Nov 9, 2010)

One of the barbers at the local place is quite a devout Catholic, and I've got into the habbit of speaking to him about religion etc while I'm getting my hair cut.

And, I'm not sure how exactly to act towards him/his views.

He is a very nice guy, and he seems to have a strong faith, indeed at times he sounds almost evangelical. But I find it hard to engage with him, since he perhaps presumes I am a more 'mainstream' Christian than I am.

For example, he might ask what my church is doing for Easter (which I do not observe). Or whether I was seeing the "Holy Father" when he visited Scotland not long ago (I believe the Roman Catholic Church to be the beast of Revelation, so...).

I'm not sure what the sober Christian response in such a situation would be. Do I go for shock effect and quote Galatians 4:10 when he talks about Easter/Christmas or Matthew 23:9 when he talks about the local priest as 'Father'?

Or should I just politely point out I'm not into all that stuff? He is nice but I think he is a bit pushy at times with all the language he uses etc.

I don't want to be too confrontational, it wouldn't go down too, the town where I live is one of the hotspots for sectarian trouble.

Any thoughts on how I should approach this?


----------



## seajayrice (Nov 9, 2010)

He has sharp things near your neck and you want to dis the Pope? Caution and wisdom.


----------



## jambo (Nov 9, 2010)

I would ask him if he has ever read the bible. If he has not I would encourage him to do so. If he does not have one I would buy him one. When we lived in the Irish Republic the vast majority of RCs were converted by simply reading the bible. I would say something along the lines "I was reading 1 Jn 5.13 the other day. John says I write these things that you may know you have eternal life. Would you know anything like that?....I read Heb 10.14 about Christ offering one sacrifice that perfected his people forever. What do you think of that?" 

There are many other verses you could use but that would be my basic approach. Catholics do use evangelical sounding language but their meaning is different. They will probably agree with everything you say although you know that they don't really agree. Like anything, unless the Father draws him, he will never come to the Son. So pray the Father would draw him.

I would stay clear of the hardline approach. Sectarianism is the Scottish curse and he has no doubt encountered hardliners before attacking him. My approach would be rather than aim cannons and blast his defensive walls, I would just find little cracks and stick in small sticks of dynamite. It always amazed me the effect that the likes of Mk 1.30 had when you point out that the "first pope" was married or that after Acts 1.14 Mary is not even mentioned.

It will take plenty of time, patience and a lot of haircuts but focus on the scriptures.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 9, 2010)

I agree with Stuart. Encourage him to keep Christ in the front. BTW, I appreciate Easter and Christmas as those two days do point to the Person and Work of Christ. I do not consider them Holy Days.


----------



## John Knox (Nov 9, 2010)

Good replies, guys!

Yeah, I'm thinking of being more assertive, but with a more positive approach. So rather than objecting to what he is saying, I will simply bring something else up, that can hopefully lead him down a better line of thought.

Any thoughts on what might be the best thing/idea to use in this case? I feel like emphasising total depravity and being born again might be the most effective. People don't like to hear the negativity of the total depravity side of things but if I bring the born-again issue up without it, he will probably just interpret being born-again as some sort of gradual transformation or something.

You really need to shock value and the idea that you suddenly get a heart of flesh and not one of stone, stone doesn't gradually transform into flesh!


----------



## Rich Koster (Nov 9, 2010)

Shift the focus to Christ and what He has done and may be doing soon, returning.


----------



## John Knox (Nov 9, 2010)

If I just have a random outburst of millenarianism I think he will probably just think I am crazy.

I am not in any way suggesting such views are crazy (I have them after all), but you have to be tactful with people that have such a different worldview.


----------



## seajayrice (Nov 9, 2010)

Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 
Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. 

This one kinda got Luther moving


----------



## John Knox (Nov 9, 2010)

seajayrice said:


> Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
> Rom 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.
> 
> This one kinda got Luther moving


 
Doesn't mean there's not good and bad ways of going about doing that. Would you run around a town full of non-believers and tell everyone you see that as things stand they're going to hell?


----------



## jambo (Nov 9, 2010)

RCs struggle with works. Has he ever done enough?
RCs have a guilt complex. Christ takes away guilt.
RCs depend upon their church. Is the church that dependable?
RCs depend upon the sacraments. What would happen to him if he died before he got to confession, missed the last rites and he had missed mass the previous Sunday? One bad thought a day; one bad word a day; one little lie a day and in today's world that is not that bad. But that equals 1100 a year and if he is 20 that would be over 22000 sins. I hope he has confessed them all. Christ is the lmb of God who takes away the sin of the world and who can forgive sin but God alone?

In terms of total depravity , he would no doubt be the first to admit he is a sinner. As long as he has not committed a "mortal sin" then his works and the saints might help him. In terms of being born again this would conjure up all sorts of unhelpful images. 

I recall one Catholic woman telling me that as she waited to take Mass one day, as the priest consecrated the bread and said "This is the body of Christ..." She suddenly thought "is it really?" I have since found that a good question to ask RCs. 
-this is the body "is it really?"
-say 3 hail Marys and you will be forgiven "will I really?"
-your good works will earn you merit. "will they really?"

Can Christ forgive sins? Yes he can and does. (Mt 9.2)
Can Christ reconcile you to God? Yes he can and does. (Col 1.22)
Can Christ keep you as his child? Yes he can and does. (Jn 10.28)
Is Christ sufficient? Yes he is (Heb 10.14)
Is Christ dependable? Yes he is (Ro 10.13)


----------



## jambo (Nov 9, 2010)

John Knox said:


> and I've got into the habbit of speaking to him about religion etc



That actually sums it up. RCs will talk about about religion quite happily. Christians talk about faith. The Catholic will talk about religion without an yintention of coming to faith.


----------



## John Knox (Nov 9, 2010)

jambo said:


> John Knox said:
> 
> 
> > and I've got into the habbit of speaking to him about religion etc
> ...


 
That's one of the things that surprised me about him though... he did talk about his faith and it really seemed that he had a deep personal conviction.

I just don't understand how that translated into his observance of all the man-made trappings that come with Catholicism.


----------



## KaphLamedh (Nov 10, 2010)

jambo said:


> I would ask him if he has ever read the bible. If he has not I would encourage him to do so. If he does not have one I would buy him one.


 
That's main problem with catholics. They know not God's Word so well. I remember that I read something about jesuits and catholics from some Alberto Rivera's book that he did read Bible
secretly, I think it was forbidden in monastery.


----------



## jambo (Nov 10, 2010)

John Knox said:


> That's one of the things that surprised me about him though... he did talk about his faith and it really seemed that he had a deep personal conviction.
> 
> I just don't understand how that translated into his observance of all the man-made trappings that come with Catholicism.



If you imagine yourself to have been brought up in a faith that uses Christian sounding terms but is anything but. It is very hard to break the habit of a lifetime and probably the traditions of a family faith that has gone back generations. In his mind it has been OK for the family so far, why should he change? Plus if he does change, what is he saying his family values are worthless. Do not underestimate the pressures he _could be under_ Protestants often fail to appreciate the difficulties facing people like your hairdressing friend. 

I suppose its a bit like the Jew in the NT. How could he possibly give up the Law, circumcision, feasts, sacrifices etc which his family have observed right back to Moses and beyond to Abraham.


----------



## earl40 (Nov 10, 2010)

As a former RC who is now a "rabid" protestant I would simply suggest to speak on the topic of faith alone...while all the time empathizing that works flow from faith ALWAYS. I say this because most RC's see rascals that profess to believe in faith alone, In other words, profess to be protestants, but act like complete monsters. I just visited my mom last night and I can say that she posses real faith in The Lord Jesus while still a professed RC. Yes she has much of the baggage of the RC church but I assure you she is not depending on works for her salvation. What I have found is to speak on the common beliefs you share and go from there, because you will be surprised how many "RC's" and "Protestants" don't believe in the biblical Jesus and the work He did for His children.


----------



## dudley (Nov 11, 2010)

jambo said:


> RCs struggle with works. Has he ever done enough?
> RCs have a guilt complex. Christ takes away guilt.
> RCs depend upon their church. Is the church that dependable?
> RCs depend upon the sacraments. What would happen to him if he died before he got to confession, missed the last rites and he had missed mass the previous Sunday? One bad thought a day; one bad word a day; one little lie a day and in today's world that is not that bad. But that equals 1100 a year and if he is 20 that would be over 22000 sins. I hope he has confessed them all. Christ is the lmb of God who takes away the sin of the world and who can forgive sin but God alone?
> ...



I agree completely with Stuart in every thing he said above. Many on here know I am an ex Roman catholic and I have been a Protestant since 2006 and I am now an affirmed and communing and strong Presbyterian. 

Stuart also said in an earlier post on this thread and I strongly agree here also with him that “I would stay clear of the hardline approach. Sectarianism is the Scottish curse and he has no doubt encountered hardliners before attacking him. My approach would be rather than aim cannons and blast his defensive walls, I would just find little cracks and stick in small sticks of dynamite. It always amazed me the effect that the likes of Mk 1.30 had when you point out that the "first pope" was married or that after Acts 1.14 Mary is not even mentioned.

It will take plenty of time, patience and a lot of haircuts but focus on the scriptures.”

I had several Protestant friends who began to dialogue with me gently around 2004 and guide me to begin questioning some basic dogmas of Roman Catholicism. 

I had one very good friend who began to ask me questions on what I thought about the pope being Christ’s vicar on earth. And then he guided me through scriptural evidence that the very notion of papacy was an anti Christ institution. I began to research and read the bible and came to the position that the papacy was not the seat of the vicar of Christ and I admitted that I no longer accepted the pope as the vicar of Christ. I renounced the pope and the papacy as did the reformers as well as Roman Catholicism. I at first became an Episcopalian at my friends invitation; I knew I had become a Protestant by joining the Episcopal church but I still did not fully understand what it meant to be a Protestant . I began my own intensive study and explored the major Protestant denominations and started to attend a bible class in a Protestant church. 

Catholics are weak in their understanding of scripture and the Gospel. Dialoguing gently with the Roman catholic on scripture will eventually bring them to a point of opening them up to conversion by accepting the Protestant doctrine of Justification by Faith alone in Christ alone. Sometimes the catholic comes to accepting the Protestant doctrine of Justification but they still need to be gently told that they are in essence no longer a roman catholic once they accept that doctrine they have really been given a special gift of faith and are now one of the elect and are by Gods grace become a Protestant. Many Catholics also do not know Jesus Christ as a personal savior and they do not really pray to Jesus. You can convert the catholic as I was by gently opening this door to them through the truth of the scriptures. 

I also was open to conversion because I wanted to have a better understanding of the Gospel and scripture as my Protestant friends had and I think if you guide them to that same desire they will not resist. In other words do not attack the false and heretical beliefs of Catholics and Catholicism; just gently dialogue with them by using scripture as evidence to lead them to the truth of the Reformed theology , the Protestant fold and hopefully convert them to be a Presbyterian which I now believe is the church that Jesus intended and the apostles established before the church and the Gospel were corrupted by Roman domination. By exposing the lie that the domination of the antichrist papal system creates and all the false teachings that transcended the simple message of the Gospel that Christ died once for all who place their faith in Him alone, the catholic will by Gods grace if they are open to wanting the truth , be converted to a Protestant.

Also remember that it was the King James Bible that broke the yoke of superstition and ignorance that popery had held over Europe for the thousand-year-long “dark ages.” The bible and the reading of the bible will brake the yoke of Roman catholicism and bondage of the Roman catholic to popery if you introduce the truth of the scriptures to him gently. The truth will pull him away from the heresies of Roman catholicism once he is exposed to the truth in scripture.

I also was very fortunate to meet and make some Reformed Christian friends in the conversion journey I was on and was guided to explore the Presbyterian community and reformed Protestantism. I studied John Calvin and the Reformation and they dialogued with me and used scripture to support their arguments and eventually they introduced me to the Westminster Confession of Faith and I began to attend services at different Presbyterian congregations. I then was introduced to the other reformed confessions also and the Westminster catechisms , long and short. By the way, Catholics like Presbyterians, are comfortable with a catechism. 

I slowly and gradually had a “true protestant conversion” much as John Calvin described of his own conversion to Protestantism. Today I consider myself a strong affirmed and practicing Presbyterian and my Christian faith in Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior is now stronger and more clear than it ever was while I was a Roman catholic.

I pray others will discover as I did the truth of the Reformed Protestant Faith and the Reformed theology and I pray others will leave the bondage of popery and be guided to become Presbyterian as I was and am now. I am thankful to God I am now a Protestant and a Presbyterian. 

I believe firmly now that it is we who are Reformed Protestants are the true church that Christ founded and intended and the true heirs of the apostles and the true Gospel.


----------



## passingpilgrim (Nov 11, 2010)

I would encourage you to discuss with him gently different topics and see where he falls. I was raised Roman Catholic and found a lot of non Catholics to be very confrontational with me when ever they found out I was Catholic. I think if more would have taken the time to gently explain the true Gospel to me and the person and work of Christ things would have been much more fruitful. It was not until I met my wife in college that she did just that and then I became a true believer.

Just my


----------

