# The evils of television



## biblelighthouse

For several years, I didn't have cable, satellite, or even a T.V. antenna at my house.

Then, about a year ago, I broke down and decided to get a satellite dish. 

I think that was a big mistake. 

Even though my wife doesn't turn on anything "bad" on the T.V., I am still really wondering whether there is much of anything actually "good" about the T.V. 

Even when the T.V. is left on for a few hours to entertain our toddlers with innocuous cartoons on Nick Jr., what *good* is it doing? My girls see hours of "Dora the Explorer" and "Barney", but how do any of these shows point them to Christ? And even if they learn something from these shows, aren't my girls just learning that Christ is totally irrelevant to most most of life, since God is never even mentioned in these shows?


Anyway, that's enough of my rambling. Here is my question:


*Can anyone on here point me to a good, solid, preferably Reformed book that specifically addresses the pros and cons of television?*

I mean, are there really any significant redeeming qualities of having T.V.? If not (or even if so), I would really like to read a good Bible-based book that addresses this issue. Even if my thinking above is correct, I think it would help my confidence greatly if I could receive some confirmation via reading a good Reformed book on the subject.

*I'm seriously thinking about kicking T.V. out of my house again.* But I want to make sure I have solid, Biblical reasons to do so, and that I'm not just acting based on my own emotion and prejudice.

Thanks in advance!

In Christ,
Joseph


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## gwine

Why do you even need a biblical reason? You won't find the word television mentioned in the Scripture, unless you want to consider:



> Deu 3:27 Go up to the top of Pisgah and lift up your eyes westward and northward and southward and eastward, and look at it with your eyes, for you shall not go over this Jordan.



You know - television = far vision. I know, I know, you someone can come up with a principle. I'll leave it for others.

Anyway, even before I came to a genuine knowledge of Christ, we went without a television from the beginning of year 2 of out marriage until around year 14. Then we only had it with a VCR - no cable or satellite. It was great, and I often regret getting it for even movies. But my wife loves movies and I am known to waste my time, too.

Our 2 boys were about 11 and 12 before we got the TV setup. It's not that they never saw any TV, it just was not at our house. And no, they didn't sneak over to other houses to watch something.

I vote to dump everything, at least until they are in high school. For the sake of your 3 little ones you will be better off.


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## C. Matthew McMahon

J- 

Get the book, "Amusing Ourselves to Death" by Neil Postman. He is not Reformed, and is not a christian. However, it may have been wirtten by one anyway. He is on target and it is excellent treatment of the abusiveness of the media and its consequences to our culture. VERY GOOD.


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## Richard King

There seem to be two ways to go.

1. Completely do without TV.
My son does this and his children are remarkably creative and interesting BUT if they go somewhere with a TV it can tend to transfix them for a while.

OR

2. Go really high tech and get TIVO... that way you can tape wonderful things from the History Channel etc. and basically program your own television on your own time terms plus skip all the commercials which are some of the most materialistic and sexually seductive things on TV.


Recently I have noticed an interesting and very subtle way that TV steals time. I get one hour off for lunch. I come home. If I turn on the TV and have mid day drivel or even an all news channel. It seems that my lunch time is gone in about ten minutes. It just flies. But if I don't turn on the TV I eat, take a fifteen minute nap and lunch seems much longer.


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## bond-servant

For what it's worth: Our family doesn't have cable. We got rid of it soon after our oldest was born. We get two or three local channels that come in well. dh and I have about 2 shows a week we watch. The kids watch dvd's of our choosing on Saturday morning. Otherwise, unless its a homeschool dvd, there is no tv during the week. Many educational videos and dvd's can be check out free from the library. 

Biblically, two Scriptures we can base our desicions off of is
1) Being good stewards of our time 

Psa 90:12 So teach us to number our days that we may get a heart of wisdom. 

and 

2) To meditate on the Lord, fixing our eyes on Him
Psa 119:15 I will meditate on your precepts and fix my eyes on your ways.

3) lastly, tv for the most part makes on lazy. Instead of watching tv, that time can be spent on devotions, family conversations or reading:

Pro 19:15 Slothfulness casts into a deep sleep, and an idle person will suffer hunger. 

4) TV promotes eating...
Pro 26:15 The lazy man buries his hand in the bowl; It wearies him to bring it back to his mouth.


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## VictorBravo

I quit watching TV around 1975 when I was coming into the house one night and saw my family looking like zombies staring at the TV. This was back in the time when there was only one station. It actually scared me to think that my whole family could be possessed by some glowing box. 

For me it had nothing to do with faith or the Bible because I wasn't a believer back then. Rather, simple observation led me to conclude that it is a time-waster and a mind-waster.

God must have given me the gift of TV-phobia. Even now I cannot enter a room with a running TV without feeling assaulted by a visual jack-hammer.

In any event, I think Ps. 90 gives as good a reason to not waste time as any. Life is too short to spend much of it before a TV.

Vic


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## Gregg

[Edited on 11-25-2005 by Gregg]


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## Pergamum

Just a thought:

I find it strange that a bunch of folks are on the internet...speaking of the evils of television. The internet is 100% wholesome I assume (sorry, sarcasm drips here)....

I for one love the nightly news, the history channel and the National Geographic Channel. My regret is not that I have television, but that I rarely get to watch it.


If we want to throw out a good thing because of abuses inherent in it, let us add wine, cigars and chocolate and junk food to this thread as well. What person cannot see the evils inherent in these things in our American culture?

Trevor


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## gwine

> _Originally posted by trevorjohnson_
> Just a thought:
> 
> I find it strange that a bunch of folks are on the internet...speaking of the evils of television. The internet is 100% wholesome I assume (sorry, sarcasm drips here)....
> 
> I for one love the nightly news, the history channel and the National Geographic Channel. My regret is not that I have television, but that I rarely get to watch it.
> 
> 
> If we want to throw out a good thing because of abuses inherent in it, let us add wine, cigars and chocolate and junk food to this thread as well. What person cannot see the evils inherent in these things in our American culture?
> 
> Trevor



To be honest with you I am more in line with victorbravo and the zombie problem than I am the "evils of TV" problem. After all, you can always not watch the shows you don't like just like you can avoid the internet sites that are worthless.

And perhaps the history channel and National Geographic are good, but give me a book to read any day. I have always enjoyed reading and prefer the book over any movie that I have watched based on same.

Can't say much about the news. The internet (cnn or fox and the like) provide the same content without listening to the talking heads. Just call me people-phobic.

I still think there is a lot to be said for not letting little ones watch TV until they are in high school. Reading and playing outside (not video games) gets more emphasis that way and they get to use their imagination, something TV does not encourage.

And with that, I'm going to watch Madagascar. :bigsmile:


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## Henry from Canada

My television died in 2002, and I have yet to buy another one. 

I will get a TV again probably in the next few months so that I can watch the 2006 World Cup (of soccer).

In my humble opinion, television is very dangerous in today's society.

Please don't laugh when I say this, but I think television can be addictive. 

When I was in university, I had a roommate that must have watched 6 hours of TV a day. He ended up failing every course. I think TV causes avoidable poverty because it drains a person's time and energy needlessly. 

I also think TV promotes obesity because it encourages slothful behavior and gluttony. Many people just sit there and eat. Studies have shown that fat kids have a tendency to watch more TV than normal weigh kids. 

I can't quote chapter and verse, but I believe the Bible says something about not placing any evil thing before you. Even if the TV program is wholesome, just watch the commercials. The commercials are amazing - just watch them with a critical eye. Try explaining these commercials to a 8 year old.

On the other hand, I find television fascinating. 

If you want a different perspective of television, watch TV without sound. Notice the bright pictures and very fast shifts from scene to scene. Is this done to 'hypnotize' the viewer?

Watch people watching TV. Note their dazed look and slight smile. Are people watching TV in a semi-sleep state? Is this good?

When I was in university, I took a communications course. The professor showed some ordinary commercials, and the students laughed. I thought to myself: No doubt, if these students saw these very same commercials at home, they wouldn't laugh. Why are they laughing now in a critical forum like a university class? Is it because normally when people watch TV commercials, they are in a dazed state?

Once I was watching television with someone, and he noticed that every 10 minutes the exact same television ad was shown. He thought this was very unusual. In reality, it's not. To hammer home a message, advertisers often replay the same commercials 4 times during a single television program. Are many television viewers (myself included) so dazed that we don't even take note of this repetition?

Try going totally without TV for one year. If you are like me, you will find the TV programs and ads shocking. I believe that consistent TV exposure hardens a person. You get used to seeing people being murdered, etc. Is this good? 

In the past 25 years, I have gone totally without TV for about 10 years. When I tell people this, they sometimes think I'm nuts. At the same time, almost everyone says they watch very little TV themselves. Is TV that close friend that we are afraid to acknowledge? 

TV is not outright banned in the Bible, and I will buy a TV at some point. Nevertheless, TV
- can inhibit a Christian from being a good steward of time and talent
- encourages sloth and gluttony
- seems to have a strange hypnotizing effect on viewers, that I can't really understand
- often needlessly exposes Christians to vile, disturbing images

But to paraphrase Homer J. Simpson, televison gives so much while asking so little.


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## BrianBowman

... we have cable and watch the news + History/Discovery Channels + local weather < 2 hours per week average. It's does not seem like real good stewardship for the cost of Cable per month. Yes, the Internet (we have high speed Cable and this a must given my employment) can waste even more time than TV and be perpaps equally as injurious to the soul if we are not very careful.


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## Robin

A tome that is serious and substantial: "Television and the Quality of Life - How viewing shapes everyday experience" by Robert Kubey and Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi

A scholarly study beyond the moral complaints, revealing many other consequences of imbibing visual/screen media.



Robin


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## Pilgrim

I recently had cable put in after about a year and a half without it and am wondering whether it was a mistake in that it creates another bill as well as being a very easy way to waste time watching sports, etc.


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Let us all become monastic and asceticistic!


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## Pilgrim

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Let us all become monastic and asceticistic!



That's not at all what I suggested (nor anyone else I believe) but asceticism would might be preferable to vegging out on several hours of TV per day!


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## WrittenFromUtopia

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Let us all become monastic and asceticistic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not at all what I suggested (nor anyone else I believe) but asceticism would might be preferable to vegging out on several hours of TV per day!
Click to expand...


According to who? Not God, if Paul is inspired.


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## Jie-Huli

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Let us all become monastic and asceticistic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not at all what I suggested (nor anyone else I believe) but asceticism would might be preferable to vegging out on several hours of TV per day!
Click to expand...






> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> According to who? Not God, if Paul is inspired.



Please show us the chapter and verse where Paul intimates that God would prefers us "vegging out on several hours of TV per day" rather than forsaking worldly entertainments (or practising "ascetism" as you call it).


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## satz

It seems to me that discussions like this have a tendency to degenerate into misunderstandings and 'people talking pass one another' because people insist using extreme examples to prove their points.



> That's not at all what I suggested (nor anyone else I believe) but asceticism would might be preferable to vegging out on several hours of TV per day!



regaring this line, i don't think that Chris was suggesting that christians must resort to a life of asceticism. Nor was Gabriel saying it would be good to 'veg out' several hours a day in front of the TV. 

I just used that as an example. I just find a trend that discussions like this sooner or later just become tearing apart strawmen and arguing from extreme cases.


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Yep.


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## Jie-Huli

No, Gabriel did not suggest it would be "good" to veg out in front of the television, and I did not mean to imply that he did . . . but I believe he did imply that the Scriptures would not support the idea that total "ascetism" (which I take to mean complete abstinence from television) is much preferable to the opposite.

With this I disagree.

I am not sure why it is that whenever it is proposed to abstain completely from something like television, some people immediately associate this with legalism or ascetism, and almost seem to imply the people wanting to abstain are gnostically trying to escape from the world.

Whatever the case, I believe the idea of getting rid of the television can find great support in Biblical principles. The Bible _does_ tell us to live as strangers in this world, does it not? Taking drastic steps to avoid letting the entertainments of this godless age influence and harden us does not seem like a bad idea to me at all.

Spurgeon, for one, spoke out very strongly against attending stage plays in his day, as did most of the Puritans if I am not mistaken. Were they "ascetic"? Obviously it all depends on how you define "ascetic", but if that is what "ascetic" is, then I would like to be more of one.

Blessings,

Jie-Huli


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## Swampguy

TV good or bad is simply a tool for information and entertainment. You control what you get from it not the TV. Some people let the boob tube control their lives but some let books control their lives. 

Remember that it comes with switches and you are the master/lord over TV. Take dominion and get the best out of it or get rid of it but remember it is only TV not some malevolent evil.

[Edited on 11-25-2005 by Swampguy]


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## Pilgrim

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Let us all become monastic and asceticistic!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's not at all what I suggested (nor anyone else I believe) but asceticism would might be preferable to vegging out on several hours of TV per day!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> According to who? Not God, if Paul is inspired.
Click to expand...


This by Paul is inspired as well: "See then that you walk circumspectly, not as fools but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil." Eph 5:15-16 

Spending hours every day watching TV or playing XBox is not redeeming the time, in my opinion and I somehow doubt that Paul would spend his time that way were he here today. The FCC chairman in the 1950's described TV as a "vast wasteland" and it's no different today. But I certainly didn't call for "total abstinence" from TV any more than I do for alcohol. But just because a particular activity may not be sinful doesn't make it the best use of my time. 

Here are some more inspired passages: 

"All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." 1 Cor 6:12

"If your right eye causes you to sin, pluck it out and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell. And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and cast it from you; for it is more profitable for you that one of your members perish, than for your whole body to be cast into hell." Matt 5:29-30


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## Pergamum

Again.....

Anyone who makes an argument for unplugging the TV for good must also give up the internet for good. 

If you reply that, "no - we can choose what we look at on the net", then I would answer, "the same applies to tv". Plus, tv has swear-word blockers and filtering capability (just as the net does).


Being a stranger in the world can be taken too far. Why not live like the Amish and party like its 1699! 

We have a Godly duty to take advantage of all available (legitimate) means to take dominion over the world.


Trevor


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## Pilgrim

> _Originally posted by trevorjohnson_
> Again.....
> 
> Anyone who makes an argument for unplugging the TV for good must also give up the internet for good.
> 
> If you reply that, "no - we can choose what we look at on the net", then I would answer, "the same applies to tv". Plus, tv has swear-word blockers and filtering capability (just as the net does).
> 
> 
> Being a stranger in the world can be taken too far. Why not live like the Amish and party like its 1699!




I think this goes a bit far, but there is some truth to the analogy in that they are both things that can be used for good or bad. I've never argued for getting rid of TV entirely, but for a good while I hardly turned it on at all and am not the worse for it. 

The internet is much different in the sense that there is far more content there, both good and bad, of course. The internet gives us the freedom to be our own broadcasters, if you will. All you need is a computer w/ a modem, an ISP and a phone line. Besides, what's TV's equivalent to the PB, monergism, CRTA, etc. Where on TV can I get information about the Reformed faith and fellowship with fellow believers? They really are two quite different mediums, and the usefulness of the internet is far greater, in my opinion, both as a means of disseminating and gathering information and as a means of communication. Although the technology is far less advanced, talk radio has more in common in some ways with the internet than does TV since you can also participate in talk radio to a much greater degree than you can on TV. 



> We have a Godly duty to take advantage of all available (legitimate) means to take dominion over the world.



Indeed. It's much easier to do this with internet than TV at this point.


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## biblelighthouse

, Chris! TV and the internet are two very distinct mediums. They can hardly even be compared with one another.

On the internet, I can restrict myself to my email, and to the puritanboard (just for example). And in doing this, my experience is virtually commercialism-free. Also, I am spending the predominant amount of my time engaged in Biblical discussions with my fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. *This is using the internet to BUILD godly relationships, based on biblical content, in the absence of commercialism.*

But it is virtually impossible to find the same solid biblical content on TV. Most shows we say are "good", are really just shows that lack the "bad" stuff, but they still don't focus on God or the Scriptures. Furthermore, almost all TV is inundated with commercials. Even if the show I watch is "good", what about the commercialism and greed I'm bombarded with during all the commercials? And finally, during TV-watching, I am not building relationships with anyone. TVs are famous for letting families be together in the same room, without having anything to do with each other. They all just sit transfixed by the glow of the TV. *This is the TV as a ROADBLOCK to godly relationships, hardly ever based on biblical content, in the blatant inundation of commercialism.*

BIG difference!


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## Pilgrim

Although the internet is hardly free from commercialism, it hasn't come close to reaching the point that television has. Regardless, the end user has far more control over the content of his internet surfing than he does over his television viewing.


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## biblelighthouse

> _Originally posted by Pilgrim_
> Although the internet is hardly free from commercialism, it hasn't come close to reaching the point that television has. Regardless, the end user has far more control over the content of his internet surfing than he does over his television viewing.



I agree.

And it's pretty neat that the BEST Christian resources on the internet also happen to be the MOST free from commercialism. And even then, the tiny bit of "commercial" aspect you can find on the puritanboard and monergism.com are actually quite welcome . . . I LOVE finding out that there is a good new Reformed book in print, or a new sermon series from Dr. McMahon. . . . If only the commercials on TV were only selling Calvin's commentaries, Spurgeon sermons, and stuff like that!


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## Gregg

My TV's are so old, most people wouldn't want to spend too much time watching them anyway.


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## gwine

Joseph,

As I have said, even though I am not opposed to people watching TV, I still see no benefit to allowing 3 little girls to watch hours of Barney or Dora the Explorer. This is true especially when you make reference to the zombies staring open-mouthed at the set (I hope you weren't referring to them). When they are older then you can watch with them and discuss what's going on.


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## ReformedWretch

If thy right eye offend thee.

THat's my approach. It's time to get rid of anything in your life that is causing you to sin, or your children to. If that is the case Joseph by all means get rid of it.


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## Pergamum

Get TIVO you guys. Then you can be your own broadcaster and skip all the commercials. 

If there is any moral difference between the TV and the net it is one of degree and not of kind...and a very small degree at that.

I still think that consistency would require that a low view of tv would also entail a low view of the net.

Answer me this: How many sex perverts molest children by means of cable tv? By this standard, the net is 1000 times more dangerous than tv.

I still contend that it is an extreme irony for people to be lambasting TV while on a net community board.

Oh yeah....and also I have read about online gambling recently. If this spreads, how will you answer the charge that you cannot gamble over the cable tv, but you can on the net? Again, if TV is somewhat evil, then the net is extremely evil and should be thrown out.

I know of a few folks that have thrown out their tvs. I know of their TV's fate - because they mention it often (perhaps trying to persuade others of the superiority of their actions to my own). I never congratulate them on it, because it seems that they are doing so out of pride. Why else would they keep telling people about how they have thrown out their tv. They also have no net, and do not listen to any radio, read the paper nor subscribe to any magazines. 

Having said all this, I watch hardly any TV (but I hope to when my life slows down).

Trevor




Trevor


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## bradofshaw

Another question that falls under Christian Liberty.

Redeem the time, dwell on what is pure and lovely and good, do all things to the glory of God. 

If TV inhibits, prevents, or outweighs the things that are commanded by Christ, then get rid of it. To say that there are no positive uses of it for the responsible believer is simply ridiculous. Its not a bad idea for the mature, responsible Christian to occasionally watch CNN, view a couple commercials, and get an idea of what the culture is shoving down the throats of the masses. It is a bad idea to let your children become one of those mindless members of the mass of society that is basically programmed by the TV. Nonetheless, there are informative programs, humourous programms, and innocently entertaining programms on TV. As Christians we are called to use our time responsibly, and I think that our concern should always be to make sure that we are not consumed by things which are not edifying.

Weigh the positives against the negatives, make godly and wise guidelines, and decide for your family what is best. The same can be said for internet, magazines, movies, or pretty much anything in life. We have been given spiritual wisdom to make these decisions. Be mindful of the weaker brother, and in all things seek to do that which is pleasing to God.


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## Henry from Canada

You know, I find threads like this fascinating. You guys are having a heated discussion over something - while at the same time you probably have similar views. 

A previous poster wisely said that what happens is that different posters will take extreme examples to refute another poster's argument.

I think everyone can agree with the following:

1) Excessive TV watching is very dangerous. It can result in sloth, gluttony, time-wasting, exposure to vile images, etc.

2) TV - especially if you can eliminate commercials - can be relaxing and informative. At the end of the day, watching an hour or two of television can help a person unwind. I haven't had a TV for 3 years, however, I will not criticize anyone for using TV in this manner. 

3) The internet can be absolutely wonderful. I have spent hours surfing the net and reading Calvinist authors like Jonathon Edwards, et al.

4) The internet, too, can be very dangerous, with the explicit images, gambling, etc. We must be responsible with internet use.

I think that everyone can agree with the above points. If not, then I shall have to wipe the egg of my face yet again.

I think Robin's post was especially interesting. This post referred to a study that examined the effects of excessive TV usage (link below). 

I don't think anyone in this grioup needs to take it personally. 
I suspect anyone who spends hours/years reading about 17th century Calvinists does not need to worry about becoming a TV zombie.

But at the same time, I think it's important to realize the devastating potential of TV. I know people who watch about 5+ hours of TV per day. These people seem to exhibit certain behavior patterns, as described in the link below.

The link below discusses how EXCESSIVE television watching can change a person's behavior and thought processes. It answered a lot of questions for me. It explains many of words previous posters have used, like 'zombie', 'vegging out.' It also shows the difference between people who watch a little TV and a lot of TV.

http://www.jr.co.il/articles/tv.txt

I think this article should be required reading for high school students.

:deadhorse


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## Pergamum

Amen - brother. Henry from Canada!


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## Swampguy




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## Bladestunner316

to trevor


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## ANT

> _Originally posted by trevorjohnson_
> Why not live like the Amish and party like its 1699!



I know this is off the subject, but I couldn't resist.

One of my favorite things to say to my kids ... is ...

 *I'm gonna go midevil on your hiney!*  (Spelling?)


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## BlackCalvinist

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> I think you're all angry legalistic licentious pigs!
> 
> :bigsmile:
> 
> Just _joshin_



Behind every joke, there is a measure of truth.

The internet and TV and library and ANYTHING aren't much different. Are we not to have *any time* for personal entertainment and relaxation ? Which of you is married on here, would not take your wife and yourself away on vacation once in a while ?

Our brains and bodies DO need that bit of rest and relaxation away from everything else emotion consuming M-F. God didn't just put a sabbath rest day in for the purpose of worship....David didn't just play his instrument to write hymns with. 

Everything has its' place.... and if something becomes a hindrance and consumes too much time away from the more important things...then stop it.

So keep your TV. The History Channel, National Geographic and EVEN *TBN* have some good programs (and for the record, I *do* believe TBN stands for 'The Blasphemy Network') from time to time. There is always the local news. Sometimes there are things that we simply 'like' and find fascinating. Sometimes a good story (i.e. - CSI or Law and Order) can serve as a good 'interaction' basis for discussion with unbelievers and be a starting point for sparking a conversation on the gospel.

But if all you do is run off in your little reformed huddle and only seek to 'convert' 'Christians' to Calvinism and speak in an almost 'foreign language' to the few unsaved you do interact with, still thinking this is 1746, and then wonder why your church doesn't grow...or worse, SHRINKS.........

Never mind, I've said my peace....

[Edited on 11-27-2005 by OS_X]


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## Bladestunner316




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## Henry from Canada

A number of posters have outlined the dangers of excessive TV watching. They have pointed out that this can lead to obesity, changes in thought processing, time-wasting, exposure to vile images, etc. I suspect tens of millions of Americans watch too much TV. 

Anyway, one poster in jest said: 'I think you're all angry legalistic licentious pigs!' He said this in jest.

Another poster quotes this verbatim and then said: 'Behind every joke, there is a measure of truth.'

Another poster said: 'Ditto.'

Thanks, it is not every day that I am called a pig, even in jest. If I have offended anyone, I am sincerely sorry. 

It was never my intention to appear 'legalistic' by outlining the dangers of TV.

However, Robin referred to a study that answered a lot of questions for me. 
A link to this study is listed here:
http://www.jr.co.il/articles/tv.txt
Please check out this link, and then tell me TV is not extremely dangerous - especially for young people.

This link explains why people who watch a lot of TV seem to be transfixed by it. It explains how children who watch a lot of TV can become obese, lacking in self-discipline, etc.

This doesn't mean that watching TV should be prohibited. Hey, you work hard all day and then you want to watch some TV to relax and unwind, what can I say? 

I think TV can be very educational also. I saw 5 minutes of a show called 'Party of Five' once, and in this 5 minutes I had a question answered that had plagued me for years. It explained my reaction to a life-threatening traumatic event that occurred when I was 8 years old. (I had never seen this show before or since.)

The way you people debate is quite disheartening. I shutter to think what non-Calvinists think when they surf the net and happen to read PB posts.

You know, I have been reading this board for about 6 months. Some of the posters really impress me. The way certain people on this board approach the Bible is really neat. Coming from a Pentecostal background, this is incredibly refreshing.

But some of the other stuff that I have seen is quite distressing. In all the years I have gone to Pentecostal, Vineyard or similar churches, I don't think I was ever called a pig, even in jest. 

This was not an exceptional type of case either. I have seen other posts that seemed to have much harsher dialogue. 

Have you ever wondered why many non-Calvinists view Calvinists as being harsh and unloving?













Oh yes, too much of anything can be bad. Too much food is bad, too much exercise is bad, too much internet is bad, etc. But I just don't think people fully realize the shocking implications of too much TV. Please read the above link. TV can change your thought processes in ways that are unique.


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## Bladestunner316

Sorry if I offened you  I was merly agreeing with those who posted that T.V. in itslef is not bad but merly the same as the internet in respect's that too much or the wrong thing can make it bad.

blade


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## Henry from Canada

If that was directed to me, no problem.

The funny thing about all this is that I think we are all in agreement.

I think we all have enjoyed TV, and I think that we all see the massive danger posed by TV.

What I find so perplexing about this thread and this group is that there can be heated debates among people that deep down are in basic agreement.

What I find distressing personally is that I find myself getting involved in these debates.

I originally wanted to join this group because I have a wide range of questions about Calvinism. I haven't gotten around to asking these questions because I find myself being distracted by debates like this, which is really a bogus debate because I seriously doubt anyone here is addicted to TV. It is unlikely that anyone who takes the time and effort to spend hours/years studying Calvinism is going to spend 5 hours a day in front of a TV like a zombie. (But there are many zombies out there.)

Some of my questions are very involved and require me to spend a bit of time looking up Bible passages to properly frame the questions.

Others questions are less complicated. 

Example of a less complicated question:

When I first started studying Calvinism, I discussed my ideas with a Pentecostal leader. One of her first objections was that she felt that mankind has at least enough 'goodness' to be able to in some small way choose God. 

When I read Romans 3, it sure appears that you, me and everyone else is totally depraved. Gen. 6 seems to support this as does WWI, WWII, the Rwandan massacre of 1994, the Zimbardo study, the Milgram study, etc.

Romans 3 is devastating. To me, it means that I am totally helpless, and that the only thing that separates the elect from the non-elect is God's mercy.

I have stated this to another pentecostal a few times, and he just doesn't respond.

When I try to explain total depravity, I simply read aloud Romans 3, in which Paul tells us how lousy we really are in great detail. 

To me, this chapter was one of the most critical chapters in the Bible. I said this to a missionary once and he wasn't impressed. 

My question is: Is there a better way to explain total depravity. 

And, by better I don't mean a lengthy dissertation of total depravity, because most people want the short sound bites you get on TV. I like reading Romans 3 because it is short, simple and straight to the point.


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## Bladestunner316

Probably best to start this question in a new thread 

I sympathize with you on your dealing's with Pentecostal's !

Blade


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## BlackCalvinist

I wasn't intending to call you a pig and I apologize if you were offended and ask you to forgive me.

I was mostly focused on the 'legalistic' part, which we (Calvinists) are sometimes accused of being. Hence, I added additional comments which would have shown that this was my focus. 

As for obesity, ADHD, etc..... it's not the TV that makes people this way.... it's their own lack of discipline. If it wasn't the TV, it could be the internet or any number of other distractions that people allow to rule over them instead of the other way around.


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## Henry from Canada

Hello Kerry,

No doubt, there is truth in what you said. Lack of discipline also contributes to obesity, etc. And no doubt, if it is not TV something else will corrupt our minds.

At the same time, however, I think there is something especially bad about TV. 

Have you ever noticed how TV viewers are transfixed by the images?

Have you ever watched TV without the sound and wondered why the images flash before your eyes so quickly? Apparently, this is suppose to partially hypnotize and transfix you - in a way the books can't.

This link was a real eye opener for me. (no pun intended)
http://www.jr.co.il/articles/tv.txt

Anyway Kerry, I don't think you and I have much of a disagreement here. In short, you seem to think excessive TV is really harmful - like so many other things in life. I just happen to think excessive TV is harmful in a very unique way in that it can actually change the way people think. That is not much of a disagreement.

I didn't want to say this, but there is a particular reason why I think this topic is really crucial. While I know a lot of people that watch TV intelligently, I also have seen people who I think were destroyed by TV.

These people fell into the rut of watching TV every night after they came home from work. They built their lives around TV. Consequently, they have not made good use of their God-given talents. 

I had a bright roommate that failed every course in university. He watched about 6 hours of TV a day. I used to walk by the TV room and see him transfixed in front of the tube.

Secretly, I fear this may happen to me. I stopped working in 2001 because of a disability. My TV died in 2002. I did not buy another TV because I was afraid that a TV might distract me from exercising stretching, reading, etc.
I've read that this frequently happens to disabled and retired people - and this scares me.

Now I spend a ton of time on the internet. Much of this time is spent reading Bible studies. There is a whack of good Bible material on the net. I also have spent a lot of time studying my illness, diet information, potential alternative therapies, etc. 

Now I also waste time on the internet, especially when I am really tired. 

Anyway, here we are. There have been 40 or so posts disagreeing over a topic in which we really don't have much of a disagreement.

I don't mean this to be offensive, but maybe this group should spend more time discussing how we can better present Calvinism to the world. Calvinism is an unknown theology to 99% of people born after 1945. I know when I started reading about this in 2002, I was shocked. And, I have many Dutch and Dutch reformed forefathers.

One of the things I'm pondering is setting up a web site with links to other web pages that contain easy-to-read articles on important Christian topics such as:
- a good primer on Calvinism that is less than 2,000 words long
- did Jesus really anoint Peter to be the first Pope (as a Catholic co-worker of mine one insisted)
- what is slain in the spirit and which Bible passages prove/disprove this
- can a prophet be 60% accurate and still be a Godly prophet 

These topics may seem really elementary to you, but in the past I have had unresolved disagreements with people over these very same topics. Fortunately, I have stumbled upon some sites that do a really really good job of explaining these issues. I'm thinking about compiling a list of these sites.


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