# John MacArthur and John Piper



## Bladestunner316 (Aug 29, 2004)

From people who have read and studied their works what would you suggest would be top priority to read from these men?

blade


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## Me Died Blue (Aug 29, 2004)

I haven't read much MacArthur, but the two books of his that I have read were good: [i:0a06bd2a38]Why One Way?[/i:0a06bd2a38] and [i:0a06bd2a38]The Murder of Jesus[/i:0a06bd2a38]. I've also heard a lot of good things about his [i:0a06bd2a38]Hard to Believe.[/i:0a06bd2a38]

Piper, I've read much more by. The only two works of his I've found to be very helpful were [i:0a06bd2a38]The Passion of Jesus Christ[/i:0a06bd2a38] (which speaks of the [i:0a06bd2a38]true[/i:0a06bd2a38] meaning and significance of Christ's journey to the Cross amidst the pop-Christianity being aroused by the movie) and [i:0a06bd2a38]Counted Righteous In Christ[/i:0a06bd2a38] (which clarifies and solidifies the historic Reformed, Christian theology on this very central, important doctrine, which itself is even being challenged in our day by so-called Reformed men). Another work of his that I found helpful was [i:0a06bd2a38]The Legacy of Sovereign Joy[/i:0a06bd2a38], but that was only because I was basically clueless with regard to Reformed church history when I read it. It's an extremely introductory-level theological and historical biography of Augustine, Luther and Calvin. Piper's [i:0a06bd2a38]Desiring God[/i:0a06bd2a38] is not very helpful or deep - if you want a better statement of his "Christian Hedonism" in a much shorter book, read [i:0a06bd2a38]The Dangerous Duty of Delight[/i:0a06bd2a38].


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## LawrenceU (Aug 29, 2004)

Piper's [u:0b5f7c7857]The Pleasures of God[/u:0b5f7c7857] does a very good job of laying down a foundational understanding of the character and nature of God and its import in theology.


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## fredtgreco (Aug 29, 2004)

Piper's [i:be1d604779]Counted Righteous in Christ [/i:be1d604779]is a must read in todays theological millieu.


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## Scot (Aug 29, 2004)

I'm the opposite of Chris. I've read more MacArthur than Piper, though I haven't read all that much of either one. I'm reading Hard To Believe by MacArthur right now (when I get time) and I think it's awesome.

I've read The Passion Of Jesus Christ by Piper and it is very good. In fact, that's one of the books that we're giving away at the church fair booth this year (along with many others).


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## Puritan Sailor (Aug 29, 2004)

Piper's "The Supremacy of God in Preaching" and MacArther's "Ashamed of the Gospel" I have found both enlightening.


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## LauridsenL (Aug 30, 2004)

I second the recommendation of Piper's Pleasures of God. 

But I even more highly recommend his book, Justification of God: An Exegetical and Theological Study of Romans 9:1-23. It certainly is one of the best (and many believe it is "the" best) exposition of Romans 9 ever written. But it's much more than a commentary on Romans 9. Piper not only annihilates all objections to God's sovereignty over election, he does so in a way that compels and inspires a deeper worship of our awesome God. Piper himself often describes how God used the process of writing the book to influence him. For example, 

"The Fall of 1979

Then, about ten years later, came the fall of 1979. I was on sabbatical from teaching at Bethel College. My one aim on this leave was to study Romans 9 and write a book on it that would settle, in my own mind, the meaning of these verses. After six years of teaching and finding many students in every class ready to discount my interpretation of this chapter for one reason or another, I decided I had to give eight months to it. The upshot of that sabbatical was the book, The Justification of God. I tried to answer every important exegetical objection to God"(tm)s absolute sovereignty in Romans 9.

But the result of that sabbatical was utterly unexpected""at least by me. My aim was to analyze God"(tm)s words so closely and construe them so carefully that I could write a book that would be compelling and stand the test of time. What I did not expect was that six months into this analysis of Romans 9 God himself would speak to me so powerfully that I resigned my job at Bethel and made myself available to the Minnesota Baptist Conference if there were a church who would have me as a pastor.

In essence it happened like this: I was 34 years old. I had two children and a third on the way. As I studied Romans 9 day after day, I began to see a God so majestic and so free and so absolutely sovereign that my analysis merged into worship and the Lord said, in effect, "I will not simply be analyzed, I will be adored. I will not simply be pondered, I will be proclaimed. My sovereignty is not simply to be scrutinized, it is to be heralded. It is not grist for the mill of controversy, it is gospel for sinners who know that their only hope is the sovereign triumph of God"(tm)s grace over their rebellious will." This is when Bethlehem contacted me near the end of 1979. And I do not hesitate to say that because of Romans 9 I left teaching and became a pastor. The God of Romans 9 has been the Rock-solid foundation of all I have said and all I have done in the last 22 years..."

It's not a quick, "popular-style" read, but it's certainly the best book he's written. You simply cannot fully assess or understand Piper without reading it.


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## Bladestunner316 (Aug 30, 2004)

sounds like i got more reading to do

blade


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## govols (Aug 30, 2004)

For MacArthur, I have thoroughly enjoyed:

The Gospel According to Jesus
The Gospel According to the Apostles
Charismatic Chaos
Ashamed of the Gospel
Hard to Believe
Battle for the Beginning
Murder of Jesus

As for Piper:
The Passion of Jesus Christ
Counted Righteous in Christ
Desiring God

Sproul has some great ones as well. James White.

I am currently reading "By His Grace and for His Glory," by Thomas J. Nettles.

Unfortunately I have to reread books to totally remember things. My wife can look at it and remember.  

I'm still hoping that in year 10 of our marriage, 2005, that she will begin to rub off on me that part.


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## SoldierOfTheRock (Aug 30, 2004)

*Hard To Believe*

I have not read MacArthur's "Hard to Believe" But I do have the audio book. It is great.

I hve listenend to it atleast 5 times, and everyone I have listen to it really enjoys it. Well, most, some are on the opposite side of God's Sovereignty. They tend to disagree with him, because he takes away the false christianity and worthlessness found so often today in the church.

All in all, if you can find the audio book somwhere, pick it up and listen to it. It really is that great.


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## luvroftheWord (Aug 30, 2004)

MacArthur's little book [u:0caee2a6cf]Found: God's Will[/u:0caee2a6cf] is quite good and helps to destroy the popular notion that God has an individual will for everybody's lives that they must find and obey. His [u:0caee2a6cf]The Gospel According to....[/u:0caee2a6cf] books are good as well.

In the case of Piper, I find him more helpful than MacArthur and I have enjoyed all of the following books by him:

Desiring God
The Pleasures of God
Let the Nations Be Glad: The Supremacy of God in Missions
The Supremacy of God in Preaching
Counted Righteous in Christ
Beyond the Bounds
Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood
The Passion of Jesus Christ
A Hunger for God


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## LauridsenL (Aug 30, 2004)

LOTR --

Read [u:1b261d0427]The Justification of God[/u:1b261d0427]. It will take a bit longer than Piper's other books, but you'll love it.

Lee


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## Bladestunner316 (Aug 30, 2004)

Which book did piper write that people had quarals over concerning justification?

blade


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## JWJ (Aug 31, 2004)

[quote:7739fce611="Bladestunner316"]Which book did piper write that people had quarals over concerning justification?

blade[/quote:7739fce611]

Future Grace


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## govols (Aug 31, 2004)

I kind of liked that book. I read it along side James White's book on Justification.


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## luvroftheWord (Aug 31, 2004)

[quote:aa4a4404a0="LauridsenL"]LOTR --

Read [u:aa4a4404a0]The Justification of God[/u:aa4a4404a0]. It will take a bit longer than Piper's other books, but you'll love it.

Lee[/quote:aa4a4404a0]

Ugh! I forgot about that one! That was the first Piper book I ever had. It dispelled all doubt in my mind about Romans 9.

By the way, my handle is luvroftheWord (LOTW), not Lord of the Rings (LOTR).


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## JWJ (Aug 31, 2004)

[quote:b336f4dc28="JWJ"][quote:b336f4dc28="Bladestunner316"]Which book did piper write that people had quarals over concerning justification?

blade[/quote:b336f4dc28]

Future Grace[/quote:b336f4dc28]

For clarification... I am taking your question to be what book did Piper write that caused quarals because of his "apparent" Fuller views of justification... that would be Future Grace.

Jim


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## Bladestunner316 (Aug 31, 2004)

sorry if I wasnt cleaer

blade


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## LauridsenL (Sep 1, 2004)

[quote:64ac4d2083]By the way, my handle is luvroftheWord (LOTW), not Lord of the Rings (LOTR). [/quote:64ac4d2083]

Yeah, sorry about that!


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## BaptistReformer (Mar 24, 2005)

Apparently I am behind... the last post here was Sept 1, 2004. I am new to the board and just found this discussion.

I have read MacArthur extensively. In fact I just returned two weeks ago from the Shephards Conference at Grace Church.  EXCELLENT!

ANyway... the current MacArthur work that is extremely helpful in navigating the current Entreprenuership and Man Centered ministry model is FOOL'S GOLD. Great little book! And i would concur with what many others have said HARD TO BELIEVE and THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO Jesus are key works to cut throught the mamby pamby man-centered evangelistic approach so popular to day.

Hope that helps!


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## BaptistReformer (Mar 24, 2005)

Apparently I am behind... the last post here was Sept 1, 2004. I am new to the board and just found this discussion.

I have read MacArthur extensively. In fact I just returned two weeks ago from the Shephards Conference at Grace Church. EXCELLENT!

ANyway... the current MacArthur work that is extremely helpful in navigating the current Entreprenuership and Man Centered ministry model is FOOL'S GOLD. Great little book! And i would concur with what many others have said HARD TO BELIEVE and THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO Jesus are key works to cut throught the mamby pamby man-centered evangelistic approach so popular to day.

Hope that helps!


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 24, 2005)




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## SolaScriptura (Mar 24, 2005)

I just found this thread, too...

For Piper, I really like:

Let the Nations Be Glad
The Pleasures of God
Desiring God
Future Grace 

For MacArthur, my favorite book of his is: The Gospel According to Jesus


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 24, 2005)

I'm waiting on my copy of Fool's Gold to arrive


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## turmeric (Mar 24, 2005)

Faith Works rocks!


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## Redeemed (Apr 6, 2005)

Gospel According to Jesus made a profound impact on my thinking

Everything MacArthur writes is powerful


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## govols (Apr 7, 2005)

Josh,

I agree that those two books are MacArthur's best but the Avatar makes me want to say, "Hey Mo, Hey Larry !" Oh wise guy, huh? Yuck, yuck, yuck, yuck.


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## Julia (Apr 7, 2005)

We have found McArthur helpful. Recently watched/listened to Does The Truth Matter Anymore on DVD, and its been most encouraging. We live in Hungary, and dont speak the language yet, so fellowship is limited!


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## bond-servant (Apr 7, 2005)

'Desiring God' by John Piper is awesome. So is "Brothers , we are not professionals" After reading this thread though, I want to read 'The Justification of God'!

'Hard to believe' by McArthur is good. So is its predecessor "The Gospel according to Jesus'


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## clevipearce (Apr 19, 2005)

I don't believe 'Don't Waste Your Life' has been mentioned. Although a little less tones down, it packs a powerful message. I recommend this book to less theologically versed persons. I'm probably going to start a small group on my campus next semester with this book.


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## BlackCalvinist (Apr 20, 2005)

I just started reading Piper's _Don't Waste Your Life_. I *love* it and the message it conveys. I'm _still_ waiting on my copy of Fool's Gold to arrive (but I know people who have gotten theirs and told me it was GREAT).


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## Ivan (Apr 20, 2005)

I have just gotten "Fool's Gold" and I'm looking forward to reading it. I've read only the introduction thus far. 

Has anyone read MacArthur's "Book of Leadership"?


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## clevipearce (Apr 27, 2005)

What is this "Fool's Gold" you speak of and who is it by?


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## Bladestunner316 (Apr 28, 2005)

More books to read Great

Blade


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## Redeemed (Apr 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> I just started reading Piper's _Don't Waste Your Life_. I *love* it and the message it conveys. I'm _still_ waiting on my copy of Fool's Gold to arrive (but I know people who have gotten theirs and told me it was GREAT).



I am that people!!

Its a great book. I'll go so far as to say it will be one of the more important books of the next few years.


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## BlackCalvinist (May 6, 2005)

Well....

Got mine in the mail yesterday.  Read through the chapter on contemporary worship music this morning. MacArthur's cool here.... Adam, you might wanna pick this up. MacArthur's all about content, not style (though he doesn't believe the music should be boring and stale and dull either....). Some of the other authors in the book (all staff from Grace Community Church) tackle stuff like _Wild At Heart_, Phil Johson takes on N.T. Wright and there's an article on the Purpose Drivel Life. 

Good stuff. GREAT stuff.

By the way Redeemed - race you to 470 posts 

[Edited on 5-7-2005 by OS_X]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (May 7, 2005)

Everyone needs to read _Counted Righteous in Christ_.


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## Formerly At Enmity (May 7, 2005)

ditto everyone who mentioned the gospe acoording to Jesus....beautifully brutal stuff....Must Read

Jesus is indeed LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11


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## Bryan (May 10, 2005)

Piper's "new" book; "When I don't Desire God" is quite good.

I like both Piper and MacArthur, I perfer Piper but thats jsut me, and have read quite a bit by both. I would agree that Piper's "Justification of God" is wonderful and if your going to use Romans 9 in a discussion on Election you should be framilar with it. MacArthur's "Ashamed of the Gospel" is my favorite book by him that I have read. His "Charasmatic Chaos" was good too but I felt it delt a bit too much with the fringe groups of the movment and not enough with the doctrine behind it the average charasmatic group.

Bryan
SDG


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## Redeemed (May 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> 
> By the way Redeemed - race you to 470 posts
> 
> [Edited on 5-7-2005 by OS_X]



HA HA


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## Herald (Aug 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Bladestunner316_
> From people who have read and studied their works what would you suggest would be top priority to read from these men?
> 
> blade



I'm going back into the 80's with this one. MacArthur's, "The Gospel According to Jesus" certainly whipped the flames of the Lordship Salvation controversy into a heated frenzy. As a result he was castigated and blackballed by many within his circle of evangelicalism. At the time I was a student at Word of Life Bible Institute in Pottersville, NY (a good Armenian institution). After the publishing of T.G.A.J., MacArthur was no longer allowed to teach at W.O.L.B.I. Although MacArthur has written more scholarly works since T.G.A.J., In my humble opinion it remains his most poignant work.


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## ReformedWretch (Aug 29, 2005)

"Hard to believe" by MaCarthur is the book that made me search the net for believers who agreed with him. That's the day I found this place!


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## RamistThomist (Aug 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Bladestunner316_
> ...



That's right. Macarthur got into trouble for teaching that saved people should live like it. If you go to some german site--lebensquellen.something or other--and look for Packer's comments on Mac in that controversy. Quite funny.


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## Steve Owen (Oct 3, 2005)

I have enjoyed reading Piper's _Brothers, we are not Professionals._

Martin


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## Average Joey (Oct 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> "Hard to believe" by MaCarthur is the book that made me search the net for believers who agreed with him. That's the day I found this place!



I am half way through with it right now.This is one of the best books I have ever read.It is so convicting.Which is a good thing.I will deffinately check more of his books out.


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 4, 2005)

MacArthur and Piper are really good at teaching the typical layman. I found I used them more with introductory topics than with the deeper, more controversial ones.

I used to lead a Small group through my former nondenom/Seeker Sensitive church. The last study I used was Macarthur´s the Gospel According to Jesus. Unfortunately I resigned from leading small groups and began attending a PCA church before we finished this study, but we got through half the book and the main point. Most of the book is simply supporting the points made in the initial chapter. It is a good resource to guide people through important fundamentals, especially those people in the seeker friendly environments. Many are deceived and may be false converts because their churches do not want to offend them. A book like this will graciously hit them like a ton of bricks plus lead to other worthy theological discussions.



> _Originally posted by Bryan_
> His "Charasmatic Chaos" was good too but I felt it delt a bit too much with the fringe groups of the movment and not enough with the doctrine behind it the average charasmatic group.



I felt the same way with MacArthur´s Charismatic Chaos. He really concentrated on the extreme cases. I had to skip over much of the Third Wave chapter simply because he went on and on in describing what these churches do. I got it and didn´t need convinced and became disinterested. I too wish he focused more on the average charismatic group.


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## Steve Owen (Nov 5, 2005)

Piper's *Brothers, We are not Professionals* is a fine book for aspiring ministers. You won't agree with all of it, but there is some great stuff there.

Martin


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## Bladestunner316 (Nov 6, 2005)

MacArthur and Piper are great for getting people interested in the reformers.

Blade


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## JLCraven (Dec 16, 2005)

I listen to both online at oneplace.com, but as for reading, my first realization of how important church fathers were, came from Piper's, The Legacy of Sovereign Joy. It this book he takes a look at the lives of Calvin, Augustine, and Luther. For a prospective minister, I would suggest the Pleasures of God. It rattled the card house of theology that I had lived in for decades. 

JL Craven
Barbourville, KY


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