# The KJV and what it means to be a man...



## SolaScriptura (Jun 11, 2008)

Alright, this is pretty funny (to me)... Here's a fundy Baptist pastor telling his congregation about being a man, and only the KJV tells us how to do it...
(Note...as he points out, he's "only" using God's words... but because in this case some people here may have G rated consciences about what "God's words" are, he uses a crude word for urinate... but hey, it's "God's words, not his!"

YouTube - Baptist preaches on KJV "him that pisseth against the wall"


(BTW - he's the type of guy that gives KJV-onlyers a bad name...)


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## Galatians220 (Jun 11, 2008)

*Flaming jackass...* *Nutjob.* _("Nurse! Seroquel IV, stat!")_

And you're hearing that from a TR-only adherent (KJV and Old Geneva, among others).

Margaret

Margaret


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 11, 2008)

http://www.puritanboard.com/f23/oh-didnt-he-ramble-30464/


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 11, 2008)

I know what's really wrong with this country... it is that pastor.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 11, 2008)

Read his 'about our pastor' page.


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## Grymir (Jun 12, 2008)

hmm.. interesting. I don't know what to say. It's in the Bible. (not those new fangled sterile ones). The sad thing is that I can see the Lib's in our country doing something like that. ("Its so messy, that is unclean. You can't stand") I don't know. A simple man armed with the KJV can preach better than a Lib with all the college in the world. Even if it's a little different. I'm gonna have to check out more of his stuff to see.


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## Reformingstudent (Jun 12, 2008)

That could be my father in-law. He believes just like that. A true KJV Only-ist


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## Reformingstudent (Jun 12, 2008)

From their Doctrinal Statement; "We believe only in the local church and not in a universal church." 

Blind leading the blind.


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## Archlute (Jun 12, 2008)

Grymir said:


> hmm.. interesting. I don't know what to say. It's in the Bible. (not those new fangled sterile ones). The sad thing is that I can see the Lib's in our country doing something like that. ("Its so messy, that is unclean. You can't stand") I don't know. A simple man armed with the KJV can preach better than a Lib with all the college in the world. Even if it's a little different. I'm gonna have to check out more of his stuff to see.



The problem is not the assertion that everyone has been "ignoring" the phrase "pisseth against the wall", which occurs six times in the OT (and which the NKJ/NIV/ESV all do a fine job of in translating the intended sense). The problem with Steve A. is that he does such a wretched job preaching the passage. His focus is on a complete tangent, and he seems unable to understand that the phrase is not focused on "manliness" per se, but rather is an idiom reflecting the total destruction of the male population; whether old men or young boys, none were to be spared. The point of why that idiom was included in the first place is completely missed.

I mean, how easy would it be to come up with a sermon like that? Every time you had an itch to scratch against liberals/feminists/"modern Bible perversions" you would just thumb through the Scriptures until you came across some phrase that fit the bill, and - wham-o! There's your sermon for the week. It's either laziness or ignorance, or both.

I do have to admit that a good friend from seminary sent me this link last summer, and my wife and I were laughing so hard that we were having a difficult time breathing! The sad thing about it all is that the guy is serious!!!


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 12, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> I know what's really wrong with this country... it is that pastor.



He does make some good criticisms of American society and politics in his sermons; though I doubt he should be a minister until he gets some training.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 12, 2008)

Grymir said:


> hmm.. interesting. I don't know what to say. It's in the Bible. (not those new fangled sterile ones). The sad thing is that I can see the Lib's in our country doing something like that. ("Its so messy, that is unclean. You can't stand") I don't know. A simple man armed with the KJV can preach better than a Lib with all the college in the world. Even if it's a little different. I'm gonna have to check out more of his stuff to see.



The problem with this assesment is that plenty of people who do not use the KJV are not Liberals.


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 12, 2008)

He has a 70 hour a week job as well.

The church is an interesting hybrid. It is KJV-O, it rejects calvinism but it also rejects dispensationalism. They're big on the cheap grace of Zane Hodges. They go a lot on 'soul-winning' - there is a video showing you how, and each person who says a prayer with you they claim as 'saved'.

Is this a 'normal' IFB type church? I don't know, not being from the USA. I thought that IFB churches were dispensational. 

J


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## Archlute (Jun 12, 2008)

Reformingstudent said:


> From their Doctrinal Statement; "We believe only in the local church and not in a universal church."
> 
> Blind leading the blind.



That's just the ecclesiastical equivalent to nominalism (the philosophical category, not the lack of religious commitment...). In the vein of Antithenes, Peter Aureolus, and others we would say, "I see a church, but not churchness". 

However, if you told them they were philosophical nominalists in constructing their doctrine of the Church they 1) wouldn't understand what you were saying, and 2) would denounce you for discussing philosophy (a la Colossians 2:8) once they had you explain to them what it was that you _were_ talking about!


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## Grymir (Jun 12, 2008)

Archlute said:


> Grymir said:
> 
> 
> > hmm.. interesting. I don't know what to say. It's in the Bible. (not those new fangled sterile ones). The sad thing is that I can see the Lib's in our country doing something like that. ("Its so messy, that is unclean. You can't stand") I don't know. A simple man armed with the KJV can preach better than a Lib with all the college in the world. Even if it's a little different. I'm gonna have to check out more of his stuff to see.
> ...




Oh I know! That is the type 'isogesis' that preachers use in the mainstream liberal church's today. Even mine. They usually relate it to some modern pop psychological idea that is floating around. I usually don't judge a preacher on a snippet though. But after checking out the church's website, I have to agree with the others he could use a little help. I'd rather listen to him than a liberal though...


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## Grymir (Jun 12, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> Grymir said:
> 
> 
> > hmm.. interesting. I don't know what to say. It's in the Bible. (not those new fangled sterile ones). The sad thing is that I can see the Lib's in our country doing something like that. ("Its so messy, that is unclean. You can't stand") I don't know. A simple man armed with the KJV can preach better than a Lib with all the college in the world. Even if it's a little different. I'm gonna have to check out more of his stuff to see.
> ...




That's true, but the percentages of KJV users I think are more conservative than non-KJV users. I know that if I go to a KJV-only church, it will probably be conservative, albiet arminian. Thanks! Grymir


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 12, 2008)

Check out his "profound" essay on why Bible colleges and seminaries are sinful:

http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/biblecollege.html


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## Archlute (Jun 12, 2008)

Ranting Fundy Preacher said:


> "...it is equally blasphemous for a Baptist preacher or educator *do* hold the title of 'Master'."
> 
> http://www.faithfulwordbaptist.org/biblecollege.html



This is priceless.


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 12, 2008)

This is what I thought was funny:



> Pastor Anderson holds no college degree but has well over 100 chapters of the Bible committed to memory, including almost half of the New Testament.



(Pastor Steven L Anderson, Phoenix, AZ)


My response: I bet the Devil has much more of the Bible committed to memory, and he too lacks a college degree!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jun 12, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> Read his 'about our pastor' page.



Wow. Two interesting things from that:

1) "independent, autonomous" redundant?

2) "Hundreds have been saved, many have been baptized" problematic?


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## Hippo (Jun 12, 2008)

Grymir said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
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> > Grymir said:
> ...



However in itself being conservative is not a good thing, being resistant to change is only a good thing when it is in respect to eternal truths, when it is in respect of other things it can be a very bad thing.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jun 12, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> This is what I thought was funny:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Take heed . . . The devil is a greater scholar than you."
--Richard Baxter


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## Jon Peters (Jun 12, 2008)

Grymir said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > Grymir said:
> ...



I have never been in a "conservative" Reformed church that used the KJV. The closest I came was a chruch that is an independent Reformed church. The pastor is a TR man but he used the NKJV.


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## ChristopherPaul (Jun 12, 2008)

This guy reveals the thought process of the radical KJV-only crowd with his rant on the meaning of numbers. He says that six is the number of man (Which I suppose is more "proof" to his point), seven is the number of completion, and then the kicker: five is the number of death because people get shot below their fifth rib and because of Genesis 5:5 and Acts 5:5 (!).

Since when is the KJV AND the verse numbers inspired!?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 12, 2008)

Grymir said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > Grymir said:
> ...



If a church is Arminian, then it is not Conservative, but preaching heresy.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 12, 2008)

Jon Peters said:


> Grymir said:
> 
> 
> > Daniel Ritchie said:
> ...



Of the 3 RPCNA's in Michigan, 2 use the KJV and 1 uses the NKJV. Here in Grand Rapids, MANY of the conservitive churches use KJV: RPCNA, HNRC, FRC, PRC, etc. Others use the NKJV (some URCs) and a couple use that NIV (the OPC, PCA, and at least a couple URCs).

Just for the record.


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 12, 2008)

JonathanHunt said:


> He has a 70 hour a week job as well.
> 
> The church is an interesting hybrid. It is KJV-O, it rejects calvinism but it also rejects dispensationalism. They're big on the cheap grace of Zane Hodges. They go a lot on 'soul-winning' - there is a video showing you how, and each person who says a prayer with you they claim as 'saved'.
> 
> ...



Can anyone answer my q on IFB churches?


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## DMcFadden (Jun 12, 2008)

> We oppose worldliness, modernism, formalism, and liberalism.



. . . and education evidently.

Jonathan, "normal" is not the "normal" word I would use for the IFB. There is enormous variation. If you checked out the website you caught a very typical IFB view, the rejection of the 1960 Reina-Valera as a "corrupt" translation. They are also divided over issues such as dispensationalism, Calvinism, CCM, and the issue of "Lordship Salvation." You can see that this pastor has declared himself on ALL of the "pressing" issues facing the 21st century IFB church: he is "against 'em" all.

However, what about his essay on male gynecologists?


> Because of years and years of looking at and touching scores of women inappropriately, the male gynecologist no doubt has a seared conscience and a perverted mind (I will not go into detail of what goes on in the doctor’s office for decency’s sake, but any woman who has been there knows what I am referring to.). His view of women and the marital bed has certainly been warped by his indecent involvement with countless women.


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## MW (Jun 12, 2008)

For all this man's obvious faults, at least he takes seriously the belief that the Bible is the very word of God, and is earnest in committing it to memory. In this he puts to shame most people today who call themselves "Christians." One thing multiple versions has accomplished is a disinterestedness in memorising the word of God.


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 12, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> One thing multiple versions has accomplished is a disinterestedness in memorising the word of God.



Easy to say... impossible to prove. I know lots and lots of people who memorize large chunks of Scripture and they use versions other than the KJV.

I think you give this guy too much credit. He doesn't take the Bible seriously. He takes himself seriously.


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## Archlute (Jun 12, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> For all this man's obvious faults, at least he takes seriously the belief that the Bible is the very word of God, and is earnest in committing it to memory. In this he puts to shame most people today who call themselves "Christians." One thing multiple versions has accomplished is a disinterestedness in memorising the word of God.



A serious fool, is still a fool.


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## Archlute (Jun 12, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> He doesn't take the Bible seriously. He takes himself seriously.



Exactly. If the opposite were to be true, we would find him putting a little more time into the serious study of interpretation, and in developing Christ-centered messages rather than easily thrown out harangues. 

In all seriousness, sitting under preaching like that for any duration of time is a detriment to the Christian's health, and should not be encouraged.


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## MW (Jun 13, 2008)

I didn't suggest anyone should sit under his ministry; his obvious faults are still faults, and serious ones at that; although the sad fact is that these kinds of indiosyncratic interpretations abound in the modern Christian world, and that in both liberal and fundie churches. I suppose because he happened to maintain the AV that made him more of a target. But the fact remains he takes seriously the belief in the Bible as the word of God, and that is an advantage he has over a great majority today. I certainly reject the idea that mere man can see inside the hearts of others and judge their attachment to the BIble to be nothing more than self-devotion. 1 Corinthians 4:5.


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## DMcFadden (Jun 13, 2008)

Idiosyncratic is one thing, but reading his position papers on numerous subjects makes me worry about his flock. There is a serious distortion of the Word of God (regardless of the translation) afoot in his ministry. That he proclaims his belligerent sectarianisms with perfect assurance only makes it worse. Having opinions on the "perverted minds" of male gynecologists, the "dangers" of Calvinism, that the only mention of "college" in the Bible is in connection with a female preacher, etc. is his perfect right. However, it is not the Gospel.

Have you noticed that the liberals lose the Gospel in the good works of social justice, the fundys drown it in legalism, and my tribe (broad evangelicals) translates it into therapy and trite moralisms (e.g., "three ways to deal with depression," "five things a wife wants from her husband," or "being like a David in confronting the Goliaths in your life"?) Yikes! 

I could (albeit with a great deal of nose holding and swallowing hard) endure ANY translation of the Bible if the preacher understood and proclaimed the Gospel.


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## MW (Jun 13, 2008)

DMcFadden said:


> Idiosyncratic is one thing, but reading his position papers on numerous subjects makes me worry about his flock.



Regrettably, Dennis, you will see the like in modern reformed churches on questions relative to education, work, health, modesty, and the like. You've probably already witnessed a few on PB. To me it demonstrates at least a zeal to take the absolutist morality of the Bible seriously, even if it also displays a certain degree of ignorance. I like to think that if a man is at least willing to open the Bible to discuss such things then there is hope. This of course does not excuse his obvious faults nor recommend his ministry. I guess I'm just somewhat bemused as to why this particular fellow should come in for a serve, when there are thousands like him over the internet. Blessings!


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