# Penal Substition: Why isn't Jesus in hell?



## Davidius (Sep 29, 2008)

Here is a question I've had for some time about the penal substitution theory of the atonement.

If Christ is our substitute, why doesn't he have to spend eternity in hell? 

If eternal separation from God is the punishment for sin, AND
Jesus suffered the punishment we deserved for sin, THEN
Jesus is punished by eternal separation from God.

Jesus is not eternally separated from God, THEREFORE
Jesus did not suffer the punishment we deserved for sin.


What am I missing here?


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## Pergamum (Sep 29, 2008)

Jesus suffered hell INTENSIVELY in those moments on the Cross. Due to his infinite nature, his suffering did not need to be spread out over all eternity.

We, on the other hand, suffer hell EXTENSIVELY, and try to pay for all eternity - but that last farthing can never be paid.


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## Davidius (Sep 29, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Jesus suffered hell INTENSIVELY in those moments on the Cross. Due to his infinite nature, his suffering did not need to be spread out over all eternity.
> 
> We, on the other hand, suffer hell EXTENSIVELY, and try to pay for all eternity - but that last farthing can never be paid.



I don't understand the intensively/extensively distinction, but regarding Christ's nature, he has the same human nature we have, does he not? And wasn't this the nature that suffered? How could He suffer a different punishment in His human nature, which is the same as ours?


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## fredtgreco (Sep 29, 2008)

Being God, He could pay the infinite penalty of sin, since He is infinite. Men, being finite pay the penalty of sin over an infinite period of time (that is one of the reasons that annihilationism is wrong).

If you do not take Christ's God-ness into account, even your suggestion falls short - _how could Christ (being one Person) be in hell forever for multiple persons_?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Davidius (Sep 29, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Being God, He could pay the infinite penalty of sin, since He is infinite. Men, being finite pay the penalty of sin over an infinite period of time (that is one of the reasons that annihilationism is wrong).
> 
> If you do not take Christ's God-ness into account, even your suggestion falls short - _how could Christ (being one Person) be in hell forever for multiple persons_?



So do we say that he paid the penalty of sin not in his human nature, but his divine nature, since his human nature isn't infinite (or is it)?


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## Pergamum (Sep 29, 2008)

i.e He PAID it and it is FINISHED. We must always be trying to pay it and never succeed (hence the reason for the eternality of hell).


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## fredtgreco (Sep 29, 2008)

Davidius said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Being God, He could pay the infinite penalty of sin, since He is infinite. Men, being finite pay the penalty of sin over an infinite period of time (that is one of the reasons that annihilationism is wrong).
> ...



Aspects of both. The Larger Catechism is helpful here, clearly stating that Christ *had* to be *both* God and man (for different reasons):



> *Q. 38. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be God?*
> A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be God, that he might sustain and keep the human nature from sinking under the infinite wrath of God, and the power of death,144 give worth and efficacy to his sufferings, obedience, and intercession;145 and to satisfy God’s justice,146 procure his favour,147 purchase a peculiar people,148 give his Spirit to them,149 conquer all their enemies,150 and bring them to everlasting salvation.151​
> *Q. 39. Why was it requisite that the Mediator should be man?*
> A. It was requisite that the Mediator should be man, that he might advance our nature,152 perform obedience to the law,153 suffer and make intercession for us in our nature,154 have a fellow-feeling of our infirmities;155 that we might receive the adoption of sons,156 and have comfort and access with boldness unto the throne of grace.157​ *
> ...



In other words, only as a man could he be _our_ substitute, and only as God, could he _pay the price _of the substitute.


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## Pergamum (Sep 29, 2008)

WOw, David, you are going back through an re-examining every single doctrine aren't you!


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## ChristianHedonist (Sep 29, 2008)

Christ, being the infinite God, was able to make a one time sacrifice of infinite value, to atone for our infinite debt. We, as finite creatures, would have to suffer for eternity to meet our infinite debt.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Davidius (Sep 29, 2008)

ChristianHedonist said:


> Christ, being the infinite God, was able to make a one time sacrifice of infinite value, to atone for our infinite debt. We, as finite creatures, would have to suffer for eternity to meet our infinite debt.



So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.


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## ChristianHedonist (Sep 29, 2008)

Davidius said:


> ChristianHedonist said:
> 
> 
> > Christ, being the infinite God, was able to make a one time sacrifice of infinite value, to atone for our infinite debt. We, as finite creatures, would have to suffer for eternity to meet our infinite debt.
> ...



Christ's human nature, by definition of being human, was finite. Thus, even a perfect man who was only a man could not have paid the infinite debt for our sins. However, because Christ has not only a human nature but also an infinite divine nature, he is able to pay our infinite debt.


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## TimV (Sep 29, 2008)

> So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.



It was like ours, until after the Resurrection, when it became glorified and perfect/infinite. But His bodily suffering was just a small proportion of His total suffering. Thus, "MY God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me" becomes horribly poignant.


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## kalawine (Sep 29, 2008)

*Thanks guys*

Davidius, 
I've always wondered about this myself. Thanks for bringing up the question. I'd also like to thank Pergamum, Pastor Greco and Dan for their excellent answers. They were all very good in my opinion. It's all very clear to me now. Thanks guys.
Kevin


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## kalawine (Sep 29, 2008)

TimV said:


> > So Christ's humanity was not finite like ours.
> 
> 
> 
> It was like ours, until after the Resurrection, when it became glorified and perfect/infinite. But His bodily suffering was just a small proportion of His total suffering. Thus, "MY God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken Me" becomes horribly poignant.



Yes, very good answer.


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