# Is same sex attraction a sin?



## Mathias321 (Jul 18, 2018)

I understand very well and accept the fact that homosexual acts are a sin, and that marriage is between one man and one woman only wherein sexual relations are only appropriate.
But I wanted some opinions on same sex attraction itself. Is it a sin to experience same sex attraction? Can a genuine elect and saved individual experience these unwanted attractions?


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## Tom Hart (Jul 18, 2018)

Yes and yes.

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## py3ak (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> How can I fight against this sin? It is a very difficult thing to face. I don’t want this.
> I pray that God will deliver me to stay strong.



How do you fight any sin? From an attitude of dependence on God (Psam 127), you take steps to avoid it (2 Timothy 2:2), kill it (Colossians 3:5), and replace it with something godly (Romans 13:14). In more concrete terms, you confess this sin to the Lord and ask for his forgiving and cleansing grace; you stay out of situations where you're more prone to feel it, indulge it, or act on it; when it appears you reject it promptly, and as promptly turn to something that fills your mind with better things (Scripture, a sermon, conversation with a reliably Christian friend, singing Psalms; the work you have in hand is also good, and a brisk walk can be a helpful supplement to thinking about praiseworthy things). Cultivate love to Christ, trust God to work in you what is pleasing in his sight, and don't let "resisting one sin" dominate your whole horizon: the Christian life is broader, and your need of mercy is deeper than that. 

Of course, this isn't a formula of easy steps to victory. Rather, these are practices that have to be repeated persistently, in the teeth of opposition. May God grant you grace and make you to be more than a conqueror.

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## smhbbag (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> How can I fight against this sin? It is a very difficult thing to face. I don’t want this.
> I pray that God will deliver me to stay strong.



I'm going to mix a lot of metaphors here.

In all of us, sin makes us stupid and our desires disordered. We crave things that will lead us into greater death. We don't see things as they are, and we embrace destruction.

We see it in Proverbs, as we are told that an adulterous woman is sharp as a double edged sword. Her feet lead to death.

Have you ever smelled death? Do you know the smell of sulfur?

Proverbs tells us the lips of an adulterous woman drip honey. But they're as bitter as gall.

I might be tempted to follow an adulterous woman. But I will not follow if I can see clearly her steps leading into a smoky hole in the ground that smells of death, while her lips drip with gall and she points a sword at me. That's suddenly not nearly as tempting.

If our minds are renewed according to the scriptures, our reaction to sin must include visceral disgust and the total impossibility of embracing it. This is how faith drives obedience in some respects. It sees things as they are, and the attraction to the good and the repulsion of evil follow more cleanly along with more faith.

Virtually no one is tempted by the consumption of excrement. That's because we all have deep and abiding conviction of its true nature and harm. Our strong belief in its nature and harm, and the immediacy of that possible harm, is what creates our visceral reaction against it. Not even one whose god is his stomach could be tempted by it.

We need to see sin as clearly as we see excrement on a plate, and react accordingly. It doesn't matter that we've eaten it before or been enticed. It is death. The word of God committed to memory is a tremendous aid to the self-preaching needed when tempted.

I want to teach my son (metaphorically) to smell sulfur and death and to taste gall when an indecent ad pops up, or a woman entices him. I've never fought homosexual temptation, but I have to believe in this respect there is a similarity. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly, see with eyes of faith what is good, and try to see without any haze just what manner of monster is lying in wait behind the temptation.

A prerequisite to running from monsters is a deep and abiding belief that it will kill you. Belief in its ability and willingness to kill you is among the best aids to running the other way.

This entire post could also be oriented the other way: preach to your affections that they might be set upon what you know is good, and taste the hot buttered bread as you open the Bible.

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## Pergamum (Jul 19, 2018)

If by attraction you mean lust, then yes, all lust is sin.
But homosexual lust is particularly sinful because it is against nature.

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## Dachaser (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> How can I fight against this sin? It is a very difficult thing to face. I don’t want this.
> I pray that God will deliver me to stay strong.


Great question.
the way to overcome any sin temptation is to stay firmly rooted in the scriptures, and to make sure you are keeping daily prayer time with Jesus Christ. Keep active in your local church, and to make sure to have close accountability partners that you can fully confide and share with when facing temptation in this area.
It is far worse to actually follow through on the temptation than to have the thoughts, but best to deal with them at that level, instead of having to deal after committing the sin.

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## Gforce9 (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew,
Meditate on the gospel. Rigor only goes so far....the gospel takes you home. I know you are hearing it from Dr. Troxel every Lord's Day, so take it in. I understand corruption, Matthew, I live with its reality every day.....

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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> How can I fight against this sin? It is a very difficult thing to face. I don’t want this.
> I pray that God will deliver me to stay strong.


Matthew,

Feed your faith and starve your temptations or doubts by not neglecting daily Scripture study, rejoicing in hope, being patient in tribulation, continuing steadfastly in prayer (Romans 12:12), fellowship with other believers, keeping good stewardship of the secular and spiritual gifts God has given you—including how and where your time is being spent—and with regular assembly with others to worship God, receive instruction, access the ordinary means of grace through word and sacrament, and be subject to discipline.

Meditate upon the following: Genesis 15:1-6; Proverbs 3:5-8; Romans 5:1-11; Ephesians 6; 1 Corinthians 9:24-27; Hebrews 10:19-25; Hebrews 10:35-39; Hebrews 11:1; Hebrews 11:6.


Spoiler: Scripture Verses To Strengthen Our Walk of Faith



*Genesis 15:1-6 (KJV) *
1 After these things the word of the LORD came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I _am_ thy shield, _and_ thy exceeding great reward. 
2 And Abram said, Lord GOD, what wilt thou give me, seeing I go childless, and the steward of my house _is_ this Eliezer of Damascus? 
3 And Abram said, Behold, to me thou hast given no seed: and, lo, one born in my house is mine heir. 
4 And, behold, the word of the LORD _came_ unto him, saying, This shall not be thine heir; but he that shall come forth out of thine own bowels shall be thine heir. 
5 And he brought him forth abroad, and said, Look now toward heaven, and tell the stars, if thou be able to number them: and he said unto him, So shall thy seed be. 
6 And he believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. 
*
Proverbs 3:5-8 (KJV) *
5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. 
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. 
7 Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil. 
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones. 
*
Romans 5:1-11 (KJV) *
1 Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ: 
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 
3 And not only _so_, but we glory in tribulations also: knowing that tribulation worketh patience; 
4 And patience, experience; and experience, hope: 
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us. 
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 
7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 
8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 
9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 
11 And not only _so_, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 
*
Ephesians 6:1-24 (KJV) *
1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right. 
2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise 
3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth. 
4 And, ye fathers, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord. 
5 Servants, be obedient to them that are _your_ masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ; 
6 Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; 
7 With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: 
8 Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether _he be_ bond or free. 
9 And, ye masters, do the same things unto them, forbearing threatening: knowing that your Master also is in heaven; neither is there respect of persons with him. 
10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might. 
11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil. 
12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high _places_. 
13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand. 
14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; 
15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; 
16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked. 
17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God: 
18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; 
19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, 
20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak. 
21 But that ye also may know my affairs, _and_ how I do, Tychicus, a beloved brother and faithful minister in the Lord, shall make known to you all things: 
22 Whom I have sent unto you for the same purpose, that ye might know our affairs, and _that_ he might comfort your hearts. 
23 Peace _be_ to the brethren, and love with faith, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ. 
24 Grace _be_ with all them that love our Lord Jesus Christ in sincerity. Amen. 
*
1 Corinthians 9:24-27 (KJV) *
24 Know ye not that they which run in a race run all, but one receiveth the prize? So run, that ye may obtain. 
25 And every man that striveth for the mastery is temperate in all things. Now they _do it_ to obtain a corruptible crown; but we an incorruptible. 
26 I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I, not as one that beateth the air: 
27 But I keep under my body, and bring _it_ into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway. 
*
Hebrews 10:19-25 (KJV) *
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, 
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh; 
21 And _having_ an high priest over the house of God; 
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water. 
23 Let us hold fast the profession of _our_ faith without wavering; (for he _is_ faithful that promised 
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: 
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some _is_; but exhorting _one another_: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. 
*
Hebrews 10:35-39 (KJV) *
35 Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward. 
36 For ye have need of patience, that, after ye have done the will of God, ye might receive the promise. 
37 For yet a little while, and he that shall come will come, and will not tarry. 
38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if _any man_ draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. 
39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul. 
*
Hebrews 11:1 (KJV) *
1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. 

*Hebrews 11:6 (KJV) *
6 But without faith _it is_ impossible to please _him_: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and _that_ he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> How can I fight against this sin? It is a very difficult thing to face. I don’t want this.
> I pray that God will deliver me to stay strong.


You Are Not Alone brother. my best friend used to deal with this very badly and still does to this day. I even went to a conference with him about this issue. As for you, make sure you are doing everything in your power and wisdom to fight this, reduce temptation, and overcome. God will do his part, you just have to focus on yours.

All in all, you can't really determine what you are attracted to, this must be a work of God. Every day, dessert sounds better to me than healthy food, but it would be my duty to do everything I can to stop that desire for eating desserts if I wanted to chose a healthier diet.

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## Mathias321 (Jul 19, 2018)

Very good answers!
It all goes back to Scripture and what God has provided for us for our sanctification and right living. Just the same as any other sin!

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## Smeagol (Jul 19, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> It is far worse to actually follow through on the temptation than to have the thoughts, but best to deal with them at that level, instead of having to deal after committing the sin.


David,

Do you not agree that The thoughts are sinful as well as the actions, according to Christ?


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## Mathias321 (Jul 19, 2018)

Grant.Jones said:


> David,
> 
> Do you not agree that The thoughts are sinful as well as the actions, according to Christ?


Harboring a mind of lust toward a person is, yes.


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## Mathias321 (Jul 19, 2018)

Pergamum said:


> If by attraction you mean lust, then yes, all lust is sin.
> But homosexual lust is particularly sinful because it is against nature.


Yes, homosexual lust is specifically disordered.


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## Smeagol (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> Having a mind of lust toward a person is, yes.


May I not lust for my own wife? Your point may need clarity.

If I were to have lustful thoughts towards another man or woman outside of my wife, that is indeed sinful.

Same-sex relational attractions are sinful both in thought and in deed. Jesus makes that clear.


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## Mathias321 (Jul 19, 2018)

Grant.Jones said:


> May I not lust for my own wife? Your point may need clarity.
> 
> If I were to have lustful thoughts towards another man or woman outside of my wife, that is indeed sinful.
> 
> Same-sex relational attractions are sinful both in thought and in deed. Jesus makes that clear.


Yes, I meant outside of marriage.
But I do agree with you that same sex attraction is fundamentally disordered and displeasing to God.


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## Smeagol (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> Yes, I meant outside of marriage.
> But I do agree with you that same sex attraction is fundamentally disordered and displeasing to God.


 Yes… Just further evidence and A reminder to us all, especially in our thoughts we are so prone to wander, prone to leave the God we love. I concur with the other maen on this thread. Prayer, reading and meditating on the word, attending church fellowship with the Saints, and in your face and personal accountability are not only beneficial for the specific sin of same-sex attraction but Are of paramount importance for our war against every part of our flesh.

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## Mathias321 (Jul 19, 2018)

Grant.Jones said:


> Yes… Just further evidence and A reminder to us all, especially in our thoughts we are so prone to wander, prone to leave the God we love. I concur with the other maen on this thread. Prayer, reading and meditating on the word, attending church fellowship with the Saints, and in your face and personal accountability are not only beneficial for the specific sin of same-sex attraction but Are of paramount importance for our war against every part of our flesh.


Amen


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## Dachaser (Jul 19, 2018)

Grant.Jones said:


> David,
> 
> Do you not agree that The thoughts are sinful as well as the actions, according to Christ?


The thought is at first a temptation to sin, so can and should be addressed at that very moment, and the sin process is that one entertains those sinful thoughts, and decides to act upon them. My point was that lusting after another person not your spouse is bad, but to commit a rape or to commit adultery/fornication, the actual deed is far worse.
James 1:14-15


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## Dachaser (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> Yes, homosexual lust is specifically disordered.


Lusting after any other party than ones wife/husband would be breaking moral law of God.


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## Smeagol (Jul 19, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> The thought is at first a temptation to sin, so can and should be addressed at that very moment, and the sin process is that one entertains those sinful thoughts, and decides to act upon them. My point was that lusting after another person not your spouse is bad, but to commit a rape or to commit adultery/fornication, the actual deed is far worse.
> James 1:14-15


Thank you for clarifying.


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## Gforce9 (Jul 19, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> The thought is at first a temptation to sin, so can and should be addressed at that very moment, and the sin process is that one entertains those sinful thoughts, and decides to act upon them. My point was that lusting after another person not your spouse is bad, but to commit a rape or to commit adultery/fornication, the actual deed is far worse.
> James 1:14-15



Respectfully, temptation precedes the "first thought" as it comes from outside. By the time we get to the "first thought", that thought is proceeding from our sinful nature. 
A distinction is helpful: if one thinks in terms of sins (plural) this is pop-Evangelical/Roman thinking. If one thinks in terms of sin (singular, a condition that pollutes everything we think/do ), this is far more Reformed thinking......


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## Jonathan R (Jul 19, 2018)

Gforce9 said:


> Respectfully, temptation precedes the "first thought" as it comes from outside. By the time we get to the "first thought", that thought is proceeding from our sinful nature.
> A distinction is helpful: if one thinks in terms of sins (plural) this is pop-Evangelical/Roman thinking. If one thinks in terms of sin (singular, a condition that pollutes everything we think/do ), this is far more Reformed thinking......



That's where following the former thread on concupiscence was helpful. Also see WCF 6.5 speaking with with regard to the sin itself and all the motions thereof.

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## Mathias321 (Jul 19, 2018)

> Yes, I can divinely and lovingly affirm that it is certainly sinful, and don't let the "Revoice" conference or any other such lies rob you of the true means of liberty thereagainst. To combat and soften against despair (by God's appointed means) and worldly hopelessness is one thing, but to combat against the heinousness and absolute consequences of sin apart from God's appointed and prescribed means is quite another.


I’ve heard about the Revoice Conferences, haven’t looked really into them though.


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## ZackF (Jul 19, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> I understand very well and accept the fact that homosexual acts are a sin, and that marriage is between one man and one woman only wherein sexual relations are only appropriate.
> But I wanted some opinions on same sex attraction itself. Is it a sin to experience same sex attraction? Can a genuine elect and saved individual experience these unwanted attractions?



Thank you for the courage to 'come out', ask and be receptive to possibly challenging feedback. Especially when much of the world affirms this, it could be easy to seek ear tickling. Wiser men have answered your questions so I won't even bother. Be assured of prayer support here. I give thanks to the Lord for your desire to battle this as that is a great sign in and of itself!

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## Ed Walsh (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> It all goes back to Scripture and what God has provided for us for our sanctification and right living. Just the same as any other sin!



I think much of my approach to Sanctification was defective for most of my 45 years as a Christian. Regeneration if all of God and his grace to the helpless–But Sanctification was mostly our work. Much of my desired sanctification always seemed to elude me. But there is forgiveness with thee that thou mayest be feared. But the past few years I have started to see that sanctification too is a gift of God. Don't misunderstand me; we still have to work, work hard. But my striving was now following a different course. The work was more centered on God and his grace and the work of the Holy Spirit in my heart. I wasn't alone in my struggle. So far I am finding that Proverbs 4:18 can be true even later in life.

But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day.​
I have uploaded a 14 page PDF excerpt on the Puritan's views of sanctification from, A PURITAN THEOLOGY: Doctrine for Life, Joel R. Beeke, and Mark Jones.
This section was beneficial to me, so I encourage many to read it.

Now my experience lines up much more with the Westminster Confession's statements on Sanctification

*Westminster Confession of Faith*
Chapter XIII
*Of Sanctification*​
I. They, who are once effectually called, and regenerated, having a new heart, and a new spirit created in them, are further sanctified, really and personally, through the virtue of Christ's death and resurrection, by His Word and Spirit dwelling in them: the dominion of the whole body of sin is destroyed, and the several lusts thereof are more and more weakened and mortified; and they more and more quickened and strengthened in all saving graces, to the practice of true holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord.

II. This sanctification is throughout, in the whole man; yet imperfect in this life, there abiding still some remnants of corruption in every part; whence arises a continual and irreconcilable war, the flesh lusting against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh.

III. In which war, although the remaining corruption, for a time, may much prevail; yet, through the continual supply of strength from the sanctifying Spirit of Christ, the regenerate part does overcome; and so, the saints grow in grace, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.


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## Dachaser (Jul 20, 2018)

Gforce9 said:


> Respectfully, temptation precedes the "first thought" as it comes from outside. By the time we get to the "first thought", that thought is proceeding from our sinful nature.
> A distinction is helpful: if one thinks in terms of sins (plural) this is pop-Evangelical/Roman thinking. If one thinks in terms of sin (singular, a condition that pollutes everything we think/do ), this is far more Reformed thinking......


You are correct that our sin nature itself is where the ultimate source of our sinning comes forth from, as I was just trying to help our brother in dealing with the temptation of lusting after same sex once that becomes a thought in his mind.


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## Dachaser (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> I’ve heard about the Revoice Conferences, haven’t looked really into them though.


No real need to, as that seems to be an attempt by some to have the Church at large redefine lesbian/gay/transgender behavior as being acceptable to God, as long as its done in a loving fashion. This constitutes them denying that the scriptures rwally do define all of that sexual behavior as sin.


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## Dachaser (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> I understand very well and accept the fact that homosexual acts are a sin, and that marriage is between one man and one woman only wherein sexual relations are only appropriate.
> But I wanted some opinions on same sex attraction itself. Is it a sin to experience same sex attraction? Can a genuine elect and saved individual experience these unwanted attractions?


Yes, as that would be due to us having a sin nature. The real way to overcome is to first accept that one is now really a new creation in Christ Jesus, and thus no longer identified as one stuck in those temptations.


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## Smeagol (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew,

Let me qualify first....I would seek the wisdom from your Session prior to considering the below organization even in the least.

I have a few Christians Friends (from various denominational backgrounds), who have been apart of a group called the "Samson Society". I have no direct experience with the group, but my brothers speak very highly of the group.

At the very least the group highly values genuine accountability, which can then be customized to fit into your local churches confessional standards to be able to achieve more unity if you do not like the diversity of denominations. The group also does a good job in helping us to get a more biblical view of accountability from what I have heard.

https://samsonsociety.com/

I am sure there can be many "negatives" heaped upon the group. I am sure they have flawed theology as well all do, so hold you stones...haha
..I am just trying to provide options to at least RESEARCH and not dive head first into. But I have heard of many blessing especially for men struggling with what I think to be more sensitive matters.

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## De Jager (Jul 20, 2018)

One way that I deal with sexual temptation is to talk to myself. For example if I see a woman who is dressed in a provocative way, I will look away and say to myself: "you are not going to look at that, and you are not going to think about that". This is usually followed by a short prayer and a conscious decision to look elsewhere. It is important to nip it in the bud before it becomes lust. It is not your fault if someone dressed like a prostitute walks in front of you and you notice her - that is simply a temptation. It is a sin if your mind goes to places it shouldn't. That is lust. That is why I would recommend praying immediately. Don't wait until the end of the day. Settle it immediately.

Also realize that you are being sanctified and realize that you will fail at times. That is never an excuse but it is a reality. That is why we pray "forgive us our trespasses" in the Lord's prayer.

As for homosexual lust, I have never experienced that. I have experienced intrusive thoughts involving disturbing sexual imagery of a homosexual nature, but that's about it: for those, I usually immediately pray to God.

There is a reason that we are taught to 'pray without ceasing' (1 Thess 5:17) and to actively think upon good things (Phil 4:8). By practicing these things, we will naturally be fighting temptation simply by choosing to actively focus on God rather than simply "reacting" when something goes awry. Think of it as going on the offense rather than being on defense. This is something I need to practice as well.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jul 20, 2018)

Those who say that same-sex attraction is not sinful are not helping Christians who struggle in this area. The first step to mortifying such a sin is to admit that it is a sin. At the same time, those who argue that a person struggling with such sinful desires cannot be a Christian err in the other direction. One heals wounds lightly; the other breaks broken reeds. 

Having said that, I agree with Perg that homosexual lust is a much more serious and abnormal issue than natural lust, precisely because it is against nature.

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## Dachaser (Jul 20, 2018)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Those who say that same-sex attraction is not sinful are not helping Christians who struggle in this area. The first step to mortifying such a sin is to admit that it is a sin. At the same time, those who argue that a person struggling with such sinful desires cannot be a Christian err in the other direction. One heals wounds lightly; the other breaks broken reeds.
> 
> Having said that, I agree with Perg that homosexual lust is a much more serious and abnormal issue than natural lust, precisely because it is against nature.


It is getting much harder to find churches and pastors who teach what the scriptures say on this issue, as it seems to be either it is the Unpardonable Sin, or else God fully accepts and now condones it, due to the love of Christ.
If I was having real problems in this area, would not find either view a good alternative to helping me in my problem.

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## Mathias321 (Jul 20, 2018)

Thank you all, you have all been very helpful. I can say with confidence that I can go in headstrong (with the Holy Spirit) against these temptations and disordered desires and seek help from my session and my church. I will endeavor to mortify this sin, as well as all my other sins, through the means of grace and through accountability.
Thank you all for being charitable, I wasn’t sure I would’ve been treated too kindly for “coming out” with my specific struggles, but I guess we are all tainted with sin. May have looked differently if I posted this in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum.
God bless you all, and pray for me.

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> Thank you all, you have all been very helpful. I can say with confidence that I can go in headstrong (with the Holy Spirit) against these temptations and disordered desires and seek help from my session and my church. I will endeavor to mortify this sin, as well as all my other sins, through the means of grace and through accountability.
> Thank you all for being charitable, I wasn’t sure I would’ve been treated too kindly for “coming out” with my specific struggles, but I guess we are all tainted with sin. May have looked differently if I posted this in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum.
> God bless you all, and pray for me.


Amen brother. We all have the same problem, just manifested differently. May the Lord bless you. Keep up the great work!

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## Smeagol (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> Thank you all, you have all been very helpful. I can say with confidence that I can go in headstrong (with the Holy Spirit) against these temptations and disordered desires and seek help from my session and my church. I will endeavor to mortify this sin, as well as all my other sins, through the means of grace and through accountability.
> Thank you all for being charitable, I wasn’t sure I would’ve been treated too kindly for “coming out” with my specific struggles, but I guess we are all tainted with sin. May have looked differently if I posted this in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum.
> God bless you all, and pray for me.


2nd Amen. Don't let anyone make you think you are a "worse" sinner. I assure you if there is one thing we should echo on this matter it would be the words of Paul :
1 Timothy 1:15
This _is_ a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world *to save sinners; of whom I am chief.*

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## Dachaser (Jul 20, 2018)

Matthew G. Bianco said:


> Thank you all, you have all been very helpful. I can say with confidence that I can go in headstrong (with the Holy Spirit) against these temptations and disordered desires and seek help from my session and my church. I will endeavor to mortify this sin, as well as all my other sins, through the means of grace and through accountability.
> Thank you all for being charitable, I wasn’t sure I would’ve been treated too kindly for “coming out” with my specific struggles, but I guess we are all tainted with sin. May have looked differently if I posted this in an Independent Fundamentalist Baptist forum.
> God bless you all, and pray for me.


Remember that your idenity would be as a new creation in Christ, and that God sees you based upon your relationship with Him brought by Jesus Christ.
Do not let the enemy be allowed to place in your mind that you are not really saved, should not be experiencing this temptation, etc.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jul 22, 2018)

I can recommend two works to read:

The Marrow of Modern Divinity
John Owen on Overcoming Sin and Temptation: https://www.amazon.com/Overcoming-T...r=8-3&keywords=john+owen+mortification+of+sin

There has been some excellent advice in this thread.

Owen's book was transformative for me in my struggles with lust. Until I reckoned sin as a constant enemy I was not giving regular battle to tempation and turning to Christ for power over its allure. One of the reasons many Christians fail in temptation is that they are not giving battle to sin and its subtleties.

I recommend the Marrow of Modern Divinty as it lays out so well the nature of the Gospel in the Covenant of Grace and the errors antinominans and neonomians make in failing to understand the difference between being in Adam with respect to the law and being in Christ.

Ed Walsh quoted the WCF on sanctification and you can see the contours of Puritan thinking on the nature of our relationship to Christ in how we battle sin and how he sanctifies us.

In Adam we are guilty of Adam's sin, corrupt in our whole nature (sinner), and slaves to sin and its demands. God is our Judge and we are at enmity with Him.

Under the Covenant of Grace, we are in Christ. We are united to Him. By faith we are united to Christ's death and resurreciton. The guilt and penalty of sin has been atoned for but Christ unites us still as corrupt sinners. Our relationship to God is no longer as under judgment but we are His children. Christ, in His death, not only paid the penalty for sin but defeated sin's power to enslave us. We are united to Christ's indestructible life and are able to resist sin and tempation.

The Puritans had a beautiful analogy of being hooked to a belt.

We were hooked to Adam's belt: Guilty, Corrupt in our whole person, and liable to God's wrath.

Christ, in the Gospel, has unhooked us from the belt of Adam and hooked us to His belt. We are counted righteous in Him and no longer guilty but He books corrupt sinners to His belt. He is not content to let us remain corrupt but makes us holy (sanctifies us) in our person.

Thus, in Christ, we are to reckon ourselves as dead to sin and its power. Its power to enslave us has been broken by the power of Christ's death and resurrection.

In the Pilgrim's Progress, Christian is captured and put in the dungeon of Great Despair. Great Despair beats he and his companion up and threatens him with death. His wife counsels Great Despair that, on the morrow, he will tear them limb from limb and that they ought to take their own life.

Suddenly Christian comes to himself and realizes that, in his bosom, the whole time was the Key of Promise. This key unlocks every prison door and they escape from Great Despair's dungeon and continue on their way.

So long as Christian believed Great Despair he believed he as under the dominion of a power greater than himself. As soon as he remembered his possession he found he had the key of escape on his person the entire time.

Trust in Christ's Promise and your possession of Christ's power more than the power of sin.

SSA arises out of our corruption. It is sin not in the sense that it is the commission of an actual sin but it is sin in the sense that it belongs to the Curse of the Fall. It can and must be starved out and put to death. It is not neutral but, like all lust, needs to be killed.

Christ alone has that power. You are His possession and He has all authority and power. He is a faithful High Priest interceding for us. He is a faithful Prophet bringing the power of the Gospel to our thinking to transform our minds through the reading of the Word and the preaching of the Gospel. He is our King and will defeat every foe standing in the way of making His Bride beautiful.

Trust this Christ more than the allure of your corruption. Outside of Him you are powerless. United to Him you have the power of an indestructible life!

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## OPC'n (Jul 22, 2018)

I love the love that I see in you all here. This is exactly how we are to bear each others burdens. God is glorified in his people!

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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jul 23, 2018)

Just crossed my desk:

"How are believers in Christ to resolve the tension of experiencing same-sex attraction, which they never sought or knowingly cultivated, and wondering whether this attraction is innate and connected to identity?"

See the full article:
https://www.theaquilareport.com/gay-christian/

Author:
Tim Geiger is President of Harvest USA.Tim came to Harvest USA himself in 1997 as a Christian who had been struggling with secret same-sex attraction for 20 years. After two years receiving ministry, Tim became a volunteer and then came on staff in 2003. Originally serving as part of the Men’s Ministry Staff, he planted the Pittsburgh office for the organization in 2007, and served as Executive Director of the organization prior to serving as President. He is a Teaching Elder in the Presbyterian Church in America, a graduate of Westminster Theological Seminary, and lives with his wife and family outside Philadelphia. This article appeared on The Harvest USA site.

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## Ed Walsh (Jul 23, 2018)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> "How are believers in Christ to resolve the tension of experiencing same-sex attraction, which they never sought or knowingly cultivated, and wondering whether this attraction is innate and connected to identity?"



I thought this was an excellent article, particularly since it was written by a man who has experienced same-sex attraction. My takeaway, to speak tersely, is that a married man who has struggled with opposite-sex attraction might as well introduce himself as an adulterous Christian if it is proper for a same-sex attracted Christian to call himself a gay Christian.

All Christians are new creations in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17), and the former sinful life is to be considered a thing of the past. In 1 Cor. 6:10 Paul included homosexuality in the list of the sins of the unrighteous in their past life before becoming Christians. But quickly adds verse11 (emphasis mine)

1 Corinthians 6:11
And such _were_ some of you. But you _were_ washed, you _were_ sanctified, you _were_ justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.

To consider your past sins past is to confess the truth. For in your new nature–in your heart of hearts–you do genuinely desire never to sin again. And this is more than wishful thinking. For, even though you "find it to be a law that when [you] want to do right, evil lies close at hand." Nevertheless, it is true that "[you] delight in the law of God, in [your] inner being." (from Rom. 7:21) And that is the _real_ you–your new center of being. The part of you that Paul boldly calls "I" in Rom. 7:20 Meditate on the truth taught in Romans 7, and may the Lord give you understanding.

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