# The Invisible Church is ...



## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 27, 2005)

What is the invisible Church?


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## kceaster (Jul 27, 2005)

I answered both, not because there are two separate churches, but because I believe the invisible church is comprised of the elect from all time and is also the saints collected in eternity. We could say that the invisible church is the eschatological Bride who obviously has all the elect members in her.

KC


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 27, 2005)

# 2

Chapter XXV.
Of the Church. 

I. The catholic or universal Church which is invisible, consists of the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one, under Christ the Head thereof; and is the spouse, the body, the fulness of Him that filleth all in all.(a)

(a) Eph. 1:10, 22, 23; Eph. 5:23, 27, 32; Col. 1:18.

II. The visible Church, which is also catholic or universal under the Gospel (not confined to one nation as before under the law), consists of all those throughout the world that profess the true religion;(b) and of their childrenc) and is the kingdom of the Lord Jesus Christ,(d) the house and family of God,(e) out of which there is no ordinary possibility of salvation.(f)

(b) I Cor. 1:2; I Cor. 12:12, 13; Ps. 2:8; Rev. 7:9; Rom. 15:9, 10, 11, 12.
(c) I Cor. 7:14; Acts 2:39; Ezek. 16:20, 21; Rom. 11:16; Gen. 3:15; Gen. 17:7.
(d) Matt. 13:47; Isa. 9:7.
(e) Eph. 2:19; Eph. 3:15.
(f) Acts 2:47.

III. Unto this catholic visible Church Christ hath given the ministry, oracles, and ordinances of God, for the gathering and perfecting of the saints, in this life, to the end of the world: and doth by His own presence and Spirit, according to His promise, make them effectual thereunto.(g)

(g) I Cor. 12:28; Eph. 4:11, 12, 13; Matt. 28:19, 20; Isa. 59:21.

IV. This catholic Church hath been sometimes more, sometimes less visible.(h) And particular Churches, which are members thereof, are more or less pure, according as the doctrine of the Gospel is taught and embraced, ordinances administered, and public worship performed more or less purely in them.(i)

(h) Rom. 11:3, 4; Rev. 12:6, 14.
(i) Rev. 2 and 3; I Cor. 5:6, 7.

[Edited on 7-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## Me Died Blue (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kceaster_
> I answered both, not because there are two separate churches, but because I believe the invisible church is comprised of the elect from all time and is also the saints collected in eternity. We could say that the invisible church is the eschatological Bride who obviously has all the elect members in her.
> 
> KC



 As the Confession states, the invisible Church is "the whole number of the elect, that have been, are, or shall be gathered into one," which includes all those throughout past, present and future (option #1), all comprising the body of glorified saints that will be "gathered into one" (option #2).


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## Scott Bushey (Jul 27, 2005)

I guess one would have to define "The Eschatological Church". I took that to mean the visible church. After thinking about that, I guess I would as well chose both, based upon Kevin and Chris' post. However, I would like to know why Gabriel supplied the choices in the manner he did as I am sure he was not intending to be redundant.



[Edited on 7-27-2005 by Scott Bushey]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jul 27, 2005)

I labeled it this way (it confuses me as well what the difference is) because I listened to Doug Wilson's sermon on this from the AA Pastor's conference and he said that we should think of the invisible church as the "eschatological church" and not some hidden church we can't see during our lifetime. He says that people confuse the two (Visible/Invisible) way too much, and this is part of the reason why. They often apply things to the Visible church that only apply to the Invisible, etc. I just wanted to see what people on here had to say about all of this.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> # 2
> 
> Chapter XXV.
> ...



I prefer to stick with the Confessional distinction of vistible/invisible.


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## kevin.carroll (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kceaster_
> I answered both, not because there are two separate churches, but because I believe the invisible church is comprised of the elect from all time and is also the saints collected in eternity. We could say that the invisible church is the eschatological Bride who obviously has all the elect members in her.
> 
> KC


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## Poimen (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kevin.carroll_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by kceaster_
> ...



Heidelberg Catechism, Q&A 54

Q54: What do you believe concerning the "Holy Catholic Church"?
A54: That out of the whole human race,[1] from the beginning to the end of the world,[2] the Son of God,[3] by His Spirit and Word,[4] gathers, defends and preserves for Himself unto everlasting life a chosen communion [5] in the unity of the true faith;[6] and that I am and forever shall remain a living member of this communion.[7]

1. Gen. 26:4
2. John 10:10
3. Eph. 1:10-13
4. Rom. 1:16; 10:14-17; Isa. 59:21; Eph. 5:26
5. Rom. 8:29-30; Matt. 16:18; Eph. 4:3-6
6. Acts 2:46; Psa. 71:18; I Cor. 1:8-9; 11:26; John 10:28-30
7. I John 2:19; 3:21; Gal. 3:28


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## Me Died Blue (Jul 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> I labeled it this way (it confuses me as well what the difference is) because I listened to Doug Wilson's sermon on this from the AA Pastor's conference and he said that we should think of the invisible church as the "eschatological church" and not some hidden church we can't see during our lifetime. He says that people confuse the two (Visible/Invisible) way too much, and this is part of the reason why. They often apply things to the Visible church that only apply to the Invisible, etc. I just wanted to see what people on here had to say about all of this.



In that case, I suppose we would need more elaboration and clarification from Wilson on just what he means by the term (yeah, right). When I first read the term, I took it to mean the same thing Kevin did. But with Wilson's use of the term, who knows what he could mean by it.



> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> I prefer to stick with the Confessional distinction of vistible/invisible.


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