# Biola and homosexuals



## yeutter (May 30, 2012)

A student group has emerged at Biola that seeks acceptance for homosexuals at Biola. biolaunderground.com


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## rookie (May 30, 2012)

Why is it, that these militants, are always seeking to make major media news about their lifestyle being accepted everywhere. There are private clubs that you have to be millionaire to join, guess what, I will most likely never fit the criteria.

We have the same issues in Canada....one issue that recently came back up is Crandall University in Moncton...about them not hiring gay teachers due to some policies...and you guessed it, that community of homosexuals is trying to fight that saying it's against human rights....

My question is, don't we as Christians have rights anymore at all?


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## J. Dean (May 30, 2012)

Very sad to see this.


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## rookie (May 30, 2012)

Did I read that right, in one spot, they were looking for Christians that didn't view homosexuality as a sin?

Wouldn't that be like looking for someone that doesn't believe divorce or adultery is sin, so they can accept each others views?


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## davenporter (May 30, 2012)

rookie said:


> Did I read that right, in one spot, they were looking for Christians that didn't view homosexuality as a sin?
> 
> Wouldn't that be like looking for someone that doesn't believe divorce or adultery is sin, so they can accept each others views?



Is that a surprise?


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## KMK (May 30, 2012)

By 'acceptance' do they mean being accepted into the university?


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## JohnGill (May 30, 2012)

This is what happens when the enemy is allowed to define the terms of the debate. Biola's response seems contradictory. Corey came out against it, but Grace stated, the university would "love and welcome a conversation with them and that's what we are hoping for." Hopefully that's just the result of the media coverage. Maybe they'll make Dr. Bahnsen's book and lecture on the subject mandatory to the whole student body.


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## Miss Marple (May 30, 2012)

As best I understand it, this is all reported after the distribution or circulation of one anonymous flyer.

There is no evidence that there are any actual students at Biola involved. Nor any evidence that there is more than one person involved.

The person or persons are under a cloak of anonymity, and it is entirely possible that no one at Biola has anything to do with it.

I live in San Francisco, my friends. There are so many creative ways to push an agenda. This is but one of them.


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## J. Dean (May 30, 2012)

Catholic Cardinal Richard John Neuhaus said something similar to this (a rather good quote considering he's Catholic): Where orthodoxy is optional, orthodoxy is sooner or later proscribed.


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## JohnGill (May 30, 2012)

Miss Marple said:


> As best I understand it, this is all reported after the distribution or circulation of one anonymous flyer.
> 
> There is no evidence that there are any actual students at Biola involved. Nor any evidence that there is more than one person involved.
> 
> ...



I hope you're right, but part of their agenda is to infiltrate Christian churches and schools and cause such problems.


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## Miss Marple (May 30, 2012)

Oh of course, they are trying to infiltrate and influence.

They probably hope to reach the ten percent or more that they believe are in the closet at Biola, get them to come out, etc.

I just hate to see Christians discouraged thinking there is a significant underground group of practicing homosexuals at Biola. There probably isn't.


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## J. Dean (May 30, 2012)

Miss Marple said:


> Oh of course, they are trying to infiltrate and influence.
> 
> They probably hope to reach the ten percent or more that they believe are in the closet at Biola, get them to come out, etc.
> 
> I just hate to see Christians discouraged thinking there is a significant underground group of practicing homosexuals at Biola. There probably isn't.


And an accompanying problem to this is how quickly we will toss out doctrine for the sake of experience. Too often I've seen people who state firm convictions on homosexuality until they find out that a friend or a family member practices this sinful lifestyle, and then they'll dampen (or unfortunately even do away with) their stance for the sake of appeasement.


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## Miss Marple (May 30, 2012)

"And an accompanying problem to this is how quickly we will toss out doctrine for the sake of experience."

I have sadly seen this in the case of abortion, too. I have seen pro-life parents urge their pregnant teens to abort. Tragic.


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## Supersillymanable (May 30, 2012)

Over here in England, I find this problem getting worse. I don't know what it's like on a day to day basis in America, but Britain, as far as I know, has always been more liberal than America. To stand up and say you think Homosexuality is wrong over here, opens you up to complete and utter ridicule. You either a) Become demonized as a homophobe, or b) A striped of all intellectual credibility among anyone you know. 

It's quite sad really. Increasingly I hear people arguing the Bible doesn't teach homosexuality is inherently wrong. Once they find this position is untenable, out goes the inerrancy of scripture... Is this quite a large problem over in the states also?


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## CharlieJ (May 30, 2012)

Miss Marple said:


> Oh of course, they are trying to infiltrate and influence.
> 
> They probably hope to reach the ten percent or more that they believe are in the closet at Biola, get them to come out, etc.
> 
> I just hate to see Christians discouraged thinking there is a significant underground group of practicing homosexuals at Biola. There probably isn't.



There almost certainly is. I mean, statistically, there are not that many homosexuals out there, but in a school of several thousand, it would be a surprise if there weren't a few dozen homosexuals. There is now a LGBT group full of alumni from my alma mater, BJU, and there are plenty of people on it, including a handful of friends of mine. Why would Biola be different?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 30, 2012)




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## yeutter (May 31, 2012)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr1ABKXY1YIA related lecture at a Biola chapel service, found here on Youtube, leads me to conclude the threat of those seeking to advance the homosexual agenda may be more pervasive at Biola then I would have expected.


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## rookie (May 31, 2012)

Here in Moncton, there is a high school (my old one). I am forever happy that I have graduated nearly 20 yrs ago now. But recently, I was talking to a young Christian that went there less than 3 yrs ago. And the trend was if you were bi or gay, you were in the popular crowd. If you are straight, you are either not popular, or hopefully have other great credentials to boost you up in the student body....

Parents must be proud....


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## chuckd (Jun 1, 2012)

rookie said:


> My question is, don't we as Christians have rights anymore at all?



No, but are we to pursuit "rights?"

Blessed are you when people hate you and when they exclude you and revile you and spurn your name as evil, on account of the Son of Man!...But I say to you who hear, Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who abuse you. To one who strikes you on the cheek, offer the other also, and from one who takes away your cloak do not withhold your tunic either. Luke 6

I think seeking "rights" may be a selfish endeavor.


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## Peairtach (Jun 1, 2012)

*Chuck*


> I think seeking "rights" may be a selfish endeavor.



Not at all, as it is not just for you as an an individual, but for all Christians in the country and for future generations, and for the good of the nation, and for the glory of God.

In the seeking of civil rights for Christians you may have to go through persecution before you get them back.


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## AThornquist (Jun 1, 2012)

The Apostle Paul, who gave up many of his Christian rights for the sake of the Gospel, also used his rights as a Roman citizen for the advantage of the Gospel.


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## kappazei (Jun 1, 2012)

What's the administration and board's position on this?


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## Edward (Jun 1, 2012)

kappazei said:


> What's the administration and board's position on this?



On what? Whether Christians should assert their rights? Whether Biola should embrace homosexuals? 
And which administration and board? Biola's board? The Puritan Board?


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## yeutter (Jun 1, 2012)

kappazei said:


> What's the administration and board's position on this?


Biola's administration says that plans are underway to facilitate an on going conversation with students about homosexuality in the coming year. 
A couple of threads on this topic are ongoing over at the What's Wrong With the World web site.


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt (Jun 1, 2012)

History shows that activist groups with no face typically don't get far because their credibility is questioned from day one. We have no way of knowing if someone is serious or simply playing a gag to make a lot of people mad (or to make the 6:00 news).

If they wish for anything to happen, they'll have to come out of the dark and risk everything for what they believe (even though its heresy). No one will take a letter-writing campaign seriously unless something is backing it up.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 1, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> *Chuck*
> 
> 
> > I think seeking "rights" may be a selfish endeavor.
> ...






AThornquist said:


> The Apostle Paul, who gave up many of his Christian rights for the sake of the Gospel, also used his rights as a Roman citizen for the advantage of the Gospel.



First off, We only have the rights of King Jesus here. You have freedom to obey him. You have a freedom to obey His law. This is a mute point on this issue. The scripture is clear. I remember when adultery was a great sin. We are becoming what God condemned in Romans chapter 1. We don't even have the right to consider ourselves. Read Philippians. Especially Chapter 2. We are to be like Christ who gave himself. 

The position of the board is confessional. Sin is sin. Reprobation is a sad deep darkened sin that is placed upon us because we refuse to listen.


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## DMcFadden (Jun 2, 2012)

We need to hear from some Biola/Talbot students on the PB to get a more informed position as to what is happening on the ground.

Most of the evangelical Christian colleges are struggling with this issue of late. It mirrors the controversy in the wider culture. Even the Green Lantern came "out" this week as a gay superhero. How mainstream can you get?

I am interested in how predominately African American Churches will react now that both President Obama and the NAACP have come out in favor of gay marriage.

Some of us probably went to seminaries where at least some of our "evangelical" profs defended the notion of homosexual marriage and/or ordination. [Ridiculous!!! in my opinion]


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## JennyG (Jun 2, 2012)

Supersillymanable said:


> increasingly I hear people arguing the Bible doesn't teach homosexuality is inherently wrong....


That's becoming a big thing in Britain.
I was discussing it with some (on the net, on a London-based, supposedly "Christian" forum) who simply asserted barefacedly that the Bible's teaching is unclear. They appealed to some pseudo-scholarly rubbish about the Greek terms Paul used, etc, and then followed that up by saying that if I disagreed, it meant I was a liar (and an evil homophobe, naturally).
It sounds just ridiculous, but it's virtually impossible to combat, and it worries me. When I'd had enough of uselessly posting the same counter-arguments and being called names, I quit the site, but they are probably still tirelessly propagating the same untruth that "modern scholarship has proved the Bible is unclear on homosexuality". It seems likely that many are being deceived.


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## JohnGill (Jun 2, 2012)

yeutter said:


> kappazei said:
> 
> 
> > What's the administration and board's position on this?
> ...



The language of "to facilitate an on going conversation" I find troubling. What conversation can you have other than pointing out that they are sinning, the just punishment of their sin, and their need of repentance and Christ? Any time I see this language I always ask myself, would they try to facilitate an on going conversation with those claiming to be Christian who were practicing pedophiles, rapists, or murderers? Would they try to facilitate an on going conversation with practicing fornicators and adulterers? A conversation by definition is a two-way dialogue. How would they imagine this going,

Christian: you're sinning before God and must repent and turn to Christ
Homosexual: I disagree with your interpretation of the Bible and find it hurtful that you claim I'm not a Christian

At this point the Christian has a choice. He can either repeat what he said, or he can mollify what he said. Dialogue language, regardless of issue, seems to more often than not lead to a mollification of the issue at hand. I hope by dialogue the mean nothing more than explaining to them their sin and need of repentance.


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## Rich Koster (Jun 2, 2012)

The goal of Satan: Get them all to listen to me, instead of God. He did it in the garden. Now he uses the pundits and pulpits. Listener beware.


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## kvanlaan (Jun 2, 2012)

'start a conversation' - I don't think that I have ever seen that used in an edifying context. It always seems to be a wedge into bringing into the public sphere what belongs behind closed doors.



> For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.



I know that we have to teach that homosexuality is a sin, but we seem to get mired in the details so quickly by engaging the LGBTQPFBSLXZYN community(ies).


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## bookslover (Jun 2, 2012)

I have an acquaintance who works in Biola's administrative offices. I've sent her an email, and will see what I can find out.


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## kappazei (Jun 2, 2012)

DMcFadden said:


> We need to hear from some Biola/Talbot students on the PB to get a more informed position as to what is happening on the ground.



Totally agree. By the way, Don't Biola's students sign a lifestyle covenant? I thought it was a common thing in Christian educational institutions. IN THE MEANTIME, WE NEED TO PRAY.


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## kappazei (Jun 3, 2012)

Ok; Apparently, accoridng to the latest blog from this so called, 'Biola Underground' the administration has restated the biblical position. “any acts of sexual intimacy between two persons of the same sex as an illegitimate moral option for the confessing Christian.” Praise the Lord!

However it's my prayer that both the board and administration will have the fortitude to continue to deal with these issues. I pray that the policy makers will dicern that they are fighting against the spirit of fanaticism. This person who is doing this so called Biola Underground is someone is fueled by the spirits of activism (obstinacy, anger, ignorance, self righteousness) and illicit sex.

1. We need to continue to pray for Biola. Especially for board and administration's family members who may be engaged in homosexual pracitce. That they will find repentance and healing. In the light of what J. Dean said,


J. Dean said:


> Too often I've seen people who state firm convictions on homosexuality until they find out that a friend or a family member practices this sinful lifestyle, and then they'll dampen (or unfortunately even do away with) their stance for the sake of appeasement.



2. I pray, if they havn't already that the policy makers will work together with healing ministries that reachout to homosexuals and form alliances with other Christian organizations which are struggling with the same problems.

3. I pray the this issue will not get blown out of proportion.

This battle is the Lord's. I invite my brothers on PB to pray with me.


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## kappazei (Jun 3, 2012)

JennyG said:


> I was discussing it with some (on the net, on a London-based, supposedly "Christian" forum) who simply asserted barefacedly that the Bible's teaching is unclear. They appealed to some pseudo-scholarly rubbish about the Greek terms Paul used, etc, and then followed that up by saying that if I disagreed, it meant I was a liar (and an evil homophobe, naturally).



"The thing from which England suffers just now more than from any other evil is not a assertion of falsehoods, but the endless and irrepressible repetition of half truths" GK Chesteron (1874 – 1936)


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## JennyG (Jun 3, 2012)

kappazei said:


> "The thing from which England suffers just now more than from any other evil is not a assertion of falsehoods, but the endless and irrepressible repetition of half truths" GK Chesteron (1874 – 1936)


if that was the case in Chesterton's day, then we seem to have moved on. Now we have the endless and irrepressible repetition of out-and-out *un*truths, at least that's what I was seeing on that other site


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## Supersillymanable (Jun 4, 2012)

JennyG said:


> Supersillymanable said:
> 
> 
> > increasingly I hear people arguing the Bible doesn't teach homosexuality is inherently wrong....
> ...



I've had exactly the same thing, but, from friends I know (who aren't CHristians). They're _incredibly_ vocal about gay rights, even when they have no friends who are homosexual, and aren't even themselves! It's really become ridiculous quite frankly.


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## JennyG (Jun 4, 2012)

Supersillymanable said:


> They're incredibly vocal about gay rights, even when they have no friends who are homosexual, and aren't even themselves! It's really become ridiculous quite frankly.


yes. This is where the battle seems to be, more and more. I don't think it could ever have been foreseen, the total turn-round in public attitude since even the eighties say. 
I think people have to have something they can feel holier than others about, and since traditional morality has been ruled out, "diversity" and "tolerance", meaning approval towards homosexuality, have filled the breach. Plus eco-consciousness of course.


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