# May eagles be included as signs in the heavens?



## non dignus (Nov 4, 2005)

Luke 17:37. *"And they answering say unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Where the body is, thither will the eagles also be gathered together. "*

What does this mean? Is it a specific warning to watch for the Roman Legions carrying emblems of eagles? Or is it another mention of the sacrificial feast given to the wild birds and beasts of the field? (Eze 39:4,17; Rev 19:17) 

Jesus mentioned natural visible objects in the sky: 

1) lightning 2) clouds 3) circling vultures?  

Or, when vultures circle in the sky anyone can determine where the fallen prey is, and this is just another way of saying "every eye shall see Him"? 

Is this a way of mocking the prince of the power of the air, by occupying the 'high places'?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Nov 4, 2005)

It is a reference to Titus' army.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 4, 2005)

Poole and Henry both characterize this as a proverbial expression and indicate both a reference to the army of Titus and to the "carcass" of the nation of Israel. 

Matthew Poole on Luke 17.37:



> Luke 17:37. Concerning the sense of this proverbial expression, and the various application of it by interpreters, see the notes on Matt 24:28. In our evangelist (where it is sw~ma, not ptw~ma, as in Matthew, the word there properly signifying a dead body, the word here a living body) it seems to be applied to Christ's glorious coming to judgment: Where I shall be, who am to be the Judge both of the quick and the dead, thither shall all the world be gathered before me, but my saints especially, who have eagles eyes, senses exercised to discern betwixt good and evil, to discern me as their Redeemer, and the true Messiah; according to that, Ps 1:5-6. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself.



Matthew Poole on Matthew 24.27-28:



> Matt 24:27-28. Luke hath much the same, Luke 17:24,37. The disagreement of interpreters about the coming of the Son of man, here spoken of, makes a variety in their interpretation of these verses. Some think the coming of the Son of man here spoken of was his coming to destroy Jerusalem, which, he saith, will be sudden like the lightning, which though the thunder be taken notice of aforehand, as following the lightning, yet is not taken notice of. These interpreters make the carcass, mentioned Matt 24:28, to be the body of the Jewish nation, designed to be destroyed; and the eagles to be the Roman armies. Job saith of the eagle, Job 39:30, where the slain are, there is she, Hab 1:8, saith the same of the Chaldean armies; They shall fly as the eagle that hasteth to eat. Some understand by the coming of Christ here, his coming in his spiritual kingdom. The preaching of the gospel shall be like the lightning; you need not listen after those that say, Lo, here is Christ, or, Lo, he is there, for my gospel shall be preached every where; and where the carcass is, where my death and resurrection shall be preached, all the elect, my sheep that hear my voice and follow me, shall be gathered together. Others understand it of Christ's coming to judgment, which is compared to lightning for the suddenness and universality of it. There, saith Christ, I shall be, and all my saints shall be gathered together. Luke seemeth to speak of this, Luke 17:24,37. That phrase, Wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together, is a proverbial speech, signifying that it will need no great labour to bring things together which are naturally joined by an innate desire either of them to the other; so that it is applicable in more cases than one. And whether that discourse in Luke were at the same time when this was I cannot say; our Saviour's discourse on this argument, Luke 21, hath not these verses, and is a part of a discourse which is said to have been begun, at least to the Pharisees, Luke 17:20. But I shall further consider what Luke saith when I shall come to that chapter in him.



Matthew Henry on Luke 17.37:



> Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together. (1.) Wherever the wicked are, who are marked for perdition, they shall be found out by the judgments of God; as wherever a dead carcase is, the birds of prey will smell it out, and make a prey of it. The Jews having made themselves a dead and putrefied carcase, odious to God's holiness and obnoxious to his justice, wherever any of that unbelieving generation is, the judgments of God shall fasten upon them, as the eagles do upon the prey: Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies (Ps 21:8), though they set their nests among the stars, Obad 4. The Roman soldiers will hunt the Jews out of all their recesses and fastnesses, and none shall escape. (2.) Wherever the godly are, who are marked for preservation, they shall be found happy in the enjoyment of Christ. As the dissolution of the Jewish church shall be extended to all parts, so shall the constitution of the Christian church. Wherever Christ is, believers will flock to him, and meet in him, as eagles about the prey, without being directed or shown the way, by the instinct of the new nature. Now Christ is where his gospel, and his ordinances, and his church are: For where two or three are gathered in his name there is he in the midst of them, and thither therefore others will be gathered to him. The kingdom of the Messiah is not to have one particular place for its metropolis, such as Jerusalem was to the Jewish church, to which all Jews were to resort; but, wherever the body is, wherever the gospel is preached and ordinances are ministered, thither will pious souls resort, there they will find Christ, and by faith feast upon him. Wherever Christ records his name he will meet his people, and bless them, John 4:21, etc.; 1 Tim 2:8. Many good interpreters understand it of the gathering of the saints together to Christ in the kingdom of glory: "Ask not where the carcase will be, and how they shall find the way to it, for they shall be under infallible direction; to him who is their living, quickening Head, and the centre of their unity, to him shall the gathering of the people be."



_The Destruction of Jerusalem, An Irresistible Proof of the Divine Origin of Christianity_ (Philadelphia: Presbyterian Board of Education, 1840):



> "Wheresoever the carcass is, there will the eagles be gathered together." Matt 24:28. The Jewish state, indeed, at this time, was fitly compared to a carcass. The sceptre of Judah, that is, its civil and political authority, the life of its religion, and the glory of its temple, were departed. It was, in short, morally and judicially dead. The eagle, whose ruling instinct is rapine and murder, as fitly represented the fierce and sanguinary temper of the Romans, and, perhaps, might be intended to refer also to the principal figure on their ensigns, which, however obnoxious to the Jews, were at length planted in the midst of the holy city, and, finally, on the temple itself.



[Edited on 11-5-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## Robin (Nov 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by non dignus_
> Luke 17:37. *"And they answering say unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Where the body is, thither will the eagles also be gathered together. "*
> 
> What does this mean? Is it a specific warning to watch for the Roman Legions carrying emblems of eagles? Or is it another mention of the sacrificial feast given to the wild birds and beasts of the field? (Eze 39:4,17; Rev 19:17)
> ...



Luke 17:20--37

The Coming of the Kingdom
Being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, he answered them, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed, nor will they say, 'Look, here it is!' or 'There!' for behold, the kingdom of God is in the midst of you." 


And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, 'Look, there!' or 'Look, here!' Do not go out or follow them. For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot--they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all-- so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed. On that day, let the one who is on the housetop, with his goods in the house, not come down to take them away, and likewise let the one who is in the field not turn back. Remember Lot's wife. Whoever seeks to preserve his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life will keep it. I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left. There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left." And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there the vultures will gather." 

Perhaps he is speaking of the suddenness of judgment?

The entire passage could apply to both events: 70 AD and the ultimate final Day of the Lord.

However, it took a few years for the fall of Jerusalem to escalate and conclude. Signs of eminent destruction were obvious; large siege ramps being built; edicts of restrictions for Jews, Etc. All this took some time.

The straightforward, literal sense of the Text points to the Second Advent.

Oops....Amillennialists don't interpret eschatological passages literally, do they? 

r.

[Edited on 11-5-2005 by Robin]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Nov 5, 2005)

How does the "straightforward, literal sense of the Text" point to the Second Advent in any way?


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## Robin (Nov 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> How does the "straightforward, literal sense of the Text" point to the Second Advent in any way?



It's what Jesus has already explained to them:

Luke 17:22-30

And he said to the disciples, "The days are coming when you will desire to see one of the days of the Son of Man, and you will not see it. And they will say to you, 'Look, there!' or 'Look, here!' *Do not go out or follow them*. For as the lightning flashes and lights up the sky from one side to the other, so will the Son of Man be in his day. But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation. Just as it was in the days of Noah, so will it be in the days of the Son of Man. They were eating and drinking and marrying and being given in marriage, until the day when Noah entered the ark, and the flood came and destroyed them all. Likewise, just as it was in the days of Lot--they were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building, but on the day when Lot went out from Sodom, fire and sulfur rained from heaven and destroyed them all-- so will it be on the day when the Son of Man is revealed.

Jesus' Jewish audience would know well the points he was making:

First, to ignore all claims that the day had or would happen (sound familiar?); the Day of the Lord would come in the midst of the God-ignoring, evil day-to-day, mundane living of the world; judgment would be upon all God's enemies suddenly, without warning. 

Noah and Lot were graphic portraits of this to the Jew.

A better question is: do we take Jesus' warning and command literally and seriously? 



r.


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