# ive wanted to go to seminary (B DIV)



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

Here is the question. I currently cant say that I want to be a preacher or a missionary. I have said for a few years now, and say now that i want to go to seminary to learn much more deeply about Scripture- particularly in reading in original tounges. Ive expressed this to my youth pastor- he sees that I have an inward desire but he has this idea- as do maybe my pastors too that I need an outward call? is this random people saying you should go to seminary?

furthermore, I understand that seminary is intense, and that its often a Masters degree. However 1) Im not interested enough in any regular Bachelors degree to get it- Id rather get a B Div- don't know why, thats just been how ive thought.
2) Im not touting myself, but based of my previous theological reading habits, I beileve i could do it successfully- maybe not full time even.

I guess, whats the advice? it seems my home church wont give me the necessary session recommendation.


----------



## greenbaggins (Apr 27, 2008)

I would recommend an MAR (Master of Arts in Religion). It is not nearly as many classes as an M.Div., and it will still give you a solid grounding in the original languages, and you have great flexibility as to what classes you want to take. Most seminaries these days do not offer bachelor's degrees.


----------



## jawyman (Apr 27, 2008)

Jeff, I would recommend the MAR as well, but from your post I was wondering if you have a bachelors degree right now.


----------



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

no bachelors degree yet.


----------



## fredtgreco (Apr 27, 2008)

No bachelor's degree, no recommendation from Session = no seminary.

Spend time studying your Bible instead and learn a trade or obtain the skills for a job.


----------



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

i know of a few that do offer bachelors degrees, but they always want one to be 30 years of age and have some "unusual reason" for not having a bachelors. but wanting to get a bdiv instead of a B.A, B.S, etc is not "unusual" enough for them.


----------



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> No bachelor's degree, no recommendation from Session = no seminary.
> 
> Spend time studying your Bible instead and learn a trade or obtain the skills for a job.



oky dokey.


----------



## shackleton (Apr 27, 2008)

Don't let anyone who lives thousands of miles away from you shatter all your dreams. There are ways you can get an education without going to a traditional seminary. Plenty of places offer degrees on line both bachelor and masters. I agree if you are not wanting to be a pastor don't bother with and M-DIV or a B-DIV which is basically an M-DIV without the languages. A traditional M -DIV is about 100-120 hours where an MAR is much shorter and has the same theological emphasis. You can get bachelors degrees completely on line from places like Moody Bible Institute. The PCA will accept degrees from Whitefield Seminary for ordination, and you can get both bachelors and masters and M/B-DIV's if you want. 

An outward call is when you work around the people in charge and people in the church and they begin to see something in you and think that you would be good as a minister and that you should pursue ministry of some sort. Nowadays there are plenty of things you can do in the ministry with out being a pastor or missionary. Don't take the advice of one or two people who try to talk you out of what you have a desire to do, follow it through you never know what might happen.


----------



## fredtgreco (Apr 27, 2008)

shackleton said:


> Don't let anyone who lives thousands of miles away from you shatter all your dreams. There are ways you can get an education without going to a traditional seminary. Plenty of places offer degrees on line both bachelor and masters. I agree if you are not wanting to be a pastor don't bother with and M-DIV or a B-DIV which is basically an M-DIV without the languages. A traditional M -DIV is about 100-120 hours where an MAR is much shorter and has the same theological emphasis. You can get bachelors degrees completely on line from places like Moody Bible Institute. The PCA will accept degrees from Whitefield Seminary for ordination, and you can get both bachelors and masters and M/B-DIV's if you want.
> 
> An outward call is when you work around the people in charge and people in the church and they begin to see something in you and think that you would be good as a minister and that you should pursue ministry of some sort. Nowadays there are plenty of things you can do in the ministry with out being a pastor or missionary. Don't take the advice of one or two people who try to talk you out of what you have a desire to do, follow it through you never know what might happen.



I'm not sure what there is to talk out of. The OP said that he did *not* want to be a minister:



> I currently cant say that I want to be a preacher or a missionary. I have said for a few years now, and say now that i want to go to seminary to learn much more deeply about Scripture- particularly in reading in original tounges.



He furthermore said that his church did not see evidence of gifts in him to support him in a calling (which would make sense, if he says that he does not want to be in ministry anyway).

Seminary is a place for pastors to be trained, not a place for laymen who want to skip a college degree to dabble in the Bible.

That does not mean that he should never go to seminary, or that he is forbidden, but dabbling will not do much good in the long term.


----------



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

Pastor Fred, What I am not understanding yet is how me going to seminary without wanting to be a pastor at this time would be dabbling.- Yes nothing should ever replace my personal devotions, family devotions, and church attendance- but dabbling would seem to say that going would be a waste of time. where do i go to learn reformed apologetics, and such- my self teaching can only go so far- same for Hebrew and Greek. I guess i could go to Hebrew lessons at a synagouge but as the only one in my area is currently a liberal Jewish, all they teach is how to read outloud- no vocab and such.


----------



## shackleton (Apr 27, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> No bachelor's degree, no recommendation from Session = no seminary.
> 
> Spend time studying your Bible instead and learn a trade or obtain the skills for a job.



This just seemed like a back handed comment, but maybe is was not intended to be. 

I took what he said as, he was trying to find ways of getting a seminary education, possibly to see what happens down the road. 

I was simply trying to show him that there were alternatives to the traditional brand of seminary, which is not for everyone, not everyone is called to be a pastor but that does not exclude them from learning or doing something more than just attending church. 

Dabbling! I have talked with many pastors who have jumped through all the right hoops and it seems like all they did was _dabble_ in theology at seminary. 

I won't speak anymore for him or presume to know what he meant...


----------



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

basically my question was how do i get into seminary with out a currently holding a Bachelors degree. with the Idea also that currently I have no desire to preach but only to learn how to study better, read the original tounges, and understand various aspects of church history, apologetics and such.


----------



## Blue Tick (Apr 27, 2008)

> basically my question was how do i get into seminary with out a currently holding a Bachelors degree. with the Idea also that currently I have no desire to preach but only to learn how to study better, read the original tounges, and understand various aspects of church history, apologetics and such.



There's plenty of resources that you can tap into without having to spend the money to go to seminary. Also, the B.Div programs are specifically designated for men who desire gospel ministry but do not currently have a B.A., B.S.,etc. 

If your just wanting to enrich your understanding of the Christian Faith try these links.

Covenant Worldwide

RTS

Greek Learning

Apologetics


----------



## fredtgreco (Apr 27, 2008)

Blue Tick said:


> > basically my question was how do i get into seminary with out a currently holding a Bachelors degree. with the Idea also that currently I have no desire to preach but only to learn how to study better, read the original tounges, and understand various aspects of church history, apologetics and such.
> 
> 
> There's plenty of resources that you can tap into without having to spend the money to go to seminary. Also, the B.Div programs are specifically designated for men who desire gospel ministry but do not currently have a B.A., B.S.,etc.
> ...



This was the point I was trying to make. Too many people view seminary as a sort of "advanced Bible institute." There is nothing wrong with wanting to study the Bible, and nothing wrong with wanting to be grounded more in the faith. Nothing wrong with wanting to even take classes from a seminary in something like Hebrew or Greek.

But I don't understand why someone would want to get a B.Div (which is a ministerial degree) if they did not intend to be a minister. Would someone say: "I'd like to know more about the body, and learn more for nutrition, so I've decided to attend Med School and get an M.D., but I don't want to be a doctor, and those closest to me who know about medicine don't think I should be a doctor." Same thing for a J.D. or an Accounting degree.

The right approach is to find resources like mentioned above and to study.


----------



## ModernPuritan? (Apr 27, 2008)

Thanks Pastor Fred, your point about dabbling makes more since now


----------



## larryjf (Apr 27, 2008)

You can study much online as well.
At The North American Reformed Seminary we have all of our courses online and accessible...even if you are not enrolled in a program. And, you wouldn't be able to enroll without your local church recommending you. Therefore, you could just go through the classes and learn without being officially enrolled.


----------



## shackleton (Apr 27, 2008)

fredtgreco,
Is one supposed to have permission from their session prior to applying to and attending seminary? I have heard that at some point while attending seminary the candidate is supposed to put themselves under the local presbytery so that they can mentor him and keep track of his progress. I guess my question is what is the path one is to take if they want to attend seminary? What are all the steps to go through, in the Presbyterian Church?

(Or anyone who might want to answer)


----------



## christianyouth (Apr 27, 2008)

Pastor Fred, you mentioned that seminary is a place to train ministers of the Gospel. Would this exclude Christian journalists and apologists like Philip Yancey or Ravi Zacharias from attending seminary? Also, would a Christian journalist need to be ordained before he wrote on Christian topics? All opinions greatly appreciated.


----------



## DTK (Apr 27, 2008)

shackleton said:


> fredtgreco,
> Is one supposed to have permission from their session prior to applying to and attending seminary?
> 
> (Or anyone who might want to answer)


Anyone who has ever applied to be accepted in a seminary program knows that the seminary looks for (among others) a sessional recommendation. This is very standard procedure.

DTK


----------



## jawyman (Apr 27, 2008)

I am confused. If you want to learn more of the Scriptures and/or religion in general, why don't you enroll in a BA in Religion or Theology program. At least at PRTS a brother would find it very difficult to succeed academically without that undergraduate foundation. This is my  worth.


----------



## Ivan (Apr 27, 2008)

DTK said:


> shackleton said:
> 
> 
> > fredtgreco,
> ...



Southern Baptist seminaries expect recommendations from the applicant's home church with at least three other recommendations. Generally those come from the local Executive Director and a couple of other experienced pastors.


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Apr 27, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Blue Tick said:
> 
> 
> > > basically my question was how do i get into seminary with out a currently holding a Bachelors degree. with the Idea also that currently I have no desire to preach but only to learn how to study better, read the original tounges, and understand various aspects of church history, apologetics and such.
> ...





There are much cheaper and prudent ways to pursue Christian maturity.

I think the smartest thing I ever heard that sort of diagnoses our culture is that, if a couple has marriage advice, they'd rather go to the 27 year old single woman with a degree in counselling rather than an old married couple with 60 years of marriage experience.

You can't short-circuit maturity. The idea of an External Call is simply the idea that men in your Church see in a man theological maturity and aptitude. They see a man who is not a novice in the faith. 

If you're still a novice then spend the day in and day out time to learn the Scriptures. Become a student of the Word both in the doctrines and letting it be a mirror to your life as to how you are being sanctified in your love of God and neighbor. I have turned down the office of Elder on two occasions because I was not spiritually mature enough yet.

Also, if you don't have your Bachelors yet and desire the ministry then go get your Bachelor's degree in something that will compliment your desire to be a minister someday. It may not lead to the ministry but having a BA can't hurt and it will prepare you for the rigors of balancing school and other distractions. Discipline yourself in simple aspects of improvement to work toward the greater goal.

At the end of the process of getting a Bachelors and pursuing Biblical maturity you may not even notice where you've come after those years. You may wake up one day to discover an Elder in your Church walking up to you and suggesting that you consider going into the Pastorate. Or you may just wake up one day and discover that you're mature in the Lord and you realize that you do not have that calling.


----------



## Wannabee (Apr 27, 2008)

I would echo Rich and Fred. But I also would see profitability in attending a good Bible college and taking classes that would help one to learn to handle God's Word better. If that's an option, then there's nothing wrong with taking classes to further your education and skill. But you do want to check with your leadership so as to avoid schools that can do more harm than good.

Central to the current situation though, is the need to submit to the local church and serve there. Ask your pastor to help you grow in knowledge and application. Perhaps he could meet with you on a regular basis, give you assignments and then, if your desire grows, give you teaching opportunities. Seminary should be the icing on the cake for a man who's already proven himself in the local church. Unfortunately, most churches don't embrace the mandate of 2 Timothy 2:2, so many men simply don't know where to turn when they have a strong desire to serve. This was my challenge. Share your thoughts with your pastor again, and ask him if he would be willing to disciple/mentor you. Perhaps he will; or perhaps he has someone he thinks would be a good mentor for you.


----------

