# Book Critiquing the Federal Vision



## C. Matthew McMahon (Jan 7, 2006)

http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_prodinfo.asp?PID=we112205111711


*Danger In the Camp*
_An Analysis and Refutation of the Heresies of the Federal Vision_ by John Otis

Several of the great battle cries of the Protestant Reformation were sola fide (by faith alone), sola gratia (by grace alone), and sola Christo (by Christ alone). Who would think that the Reformed church of the 21st Century would have to rally again behind these battle cries? This time, the threat comes from within the Reformed camp. Jesus said that there would be false apostles who would be wolves in sheep´s clothing, and the apostle Paul warned the Ephesian elders that savage wolves would come from their own midst, not sparing the flock.

The advent of Federal Vision theology has brought one of the most serious threats to the Reformed community in a long time. The glorious doctrines of justification "œby faith alone" and the imputation of Christ´s righteousness to believers have been denied. The five points of Calvinism have all been jeopardized. Baptismal regeneration is advocated. The Federal Vision is simply a hybrid form of Roman Catholicism.

This 540 page book is the most comprehensive work on this subject. It is thoroughly documented with numerous quotes from the lectures and writings of several proponents of the Federal Vision. You will find this book an extremely valuable resource.

______________


I'm going to pick up a copy tonight and see what he says.

Otis is from Westminster Presbyterian Church.
http://www.sermonaudio.com/source_p...author=John+Otis&withinsource=westminstercctx


----------



## LadyFlynt (Jan 7, 2006)

Let us know what you think...


----------



## LadyFlynt (Jan 7, 2006)

but...but...but I wannnnaa knowwww.... (I'll take a little cheese with that whine, please).


----------



## Poimen (Jan 22, 2007)

I purchased this book and I highly recommend it since he pulls from a number of sources to expose the attack of the Federal Vision on Reformed theology.


----------



## ChristopherPaul (Jan 22, 2007)

Sermon Audio sells books?

added to my list, thanks!


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Jan 22, 2007)

PB's teWilder has a review on Amazon about the strengths, and some weaknesses of the book here.
Opinions?


----------



## ChristopherPaul (Jan 22, 2007)

NaphtaliPress said:


> PB's teWilder has a review on Amazon about the strengths, and some weaknesses of the book here.
> Opinions?






James B. Jordan said:


> What neither man seems to understand is that Greg Bahnsen was thoroughly Vantillian and Shepherdian, and would have been completely at home with all the important aspects of "FV." I know this for certain as I worked with him for many years and had many conversations with him over just these topics. A meritorous notion of a "covenant of works" was ridiculous to him. Neither Otis's book nor Wilder's review tells anything of importance about this supposed "FV" movement, which actually is nothing more than classic Reformational theology (liturgical, theocratic, covenantal).




Interesting

Isn't it odd how the deceased are relied upon so heavily in support of issue they never directly addressed.


----------



## travis (Jan 22, 2007)

I will have to get this since I am getting ready to read 'Reformed is Not Enough' by Wilson and 'Federal Vision' by Wilkins.


----------



## bowhunter1961 (Jan 22, 2007)

i have a Q. i just read a blog on o p robertson that he tried to publish on this subject in 1977, when this first appeared by some guy named shepard. if this is true, why has this been so long in putting this down? it just seems that the split P's should be policing OUR own schools better.esp. concerning just. by faith alone.


----------



## Poimen (Jan 22, 2007)

bowhunter1961 said:


> i have a Q. i just read a blog on o p robertson that he tried to publish on this subject in 1977, when this first appeared by some guy named shepard. if this is true, why has this been so long in putting this down? it just seems that the split P's should be policing OUR own schools better.esp. concerning just. by faith alone.



In case you are not aware, the controversy is (now) outlined in a book by the Robertson entitled "The Justification Controversy." 

Amazon.com: The Current Justification Controversy - Westminster Theological Seminary (Trinity Paper No. 63): Books

For what it's worth, I highly recommend it.


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Jan 23, 2007)

Maybe somebody could review the book and put it here:

http://www.puritanboard.com/forumdisplay.php?f=90


----------



## crhoades (Jan 23, 2007)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Interesting
> 
> Isn't it odd how the deceased are relied upon so heavily in support of issue they never directly addressed.


 
Regarding the Jordan statement concerning Bahnsen, Otis also wrote this paper exhonerating Bahnsen of FV leanings:

http://www.westminsterrpcus.org/modules/wfsection/article.php?articleid=7

For what it's worth, Otis is in the same denomination as Joe Morecraft who was also friends with Bahsnen. Joe Morecraft is theonomic and even held the Chalcedon 40th Anniversary Conference at his church (which I attended). Last time I checked some prominent theonomists were the first out of the gate condemning FV. Everyone has tried to claim Bahnsen including his son. This is worthy of a few minutes to read.


----------



## caddy (Jan 23, 2007)

Could someone sum up exactly what "Federal Vision" is? I have heard the term kicked around, but admit I am NOT familiar with it. 



travis said:


> I will have to get this since I am getting ready to read 'Reformed is Not Enough' by Wilson and 'Federal Vision' by Wilkins.


----------



## tewilder (Jan 23, 2007)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Interesting
> 
> Isn't it odd how the deceased are relied upon so heavily in support of issue they never directly addressed.



When I wrote that review, one of the things I had in mind was what Jordan himself told me about Bahnsen, namely that Bahnsen clung to his early views that he held at the time he wrote his Master's thesis on theonomy and was not able to "grow" to a mature view (i.e. one that appreciated the things the Jordan and Co. were doing in Tyler). Now it is in Jordan's interest to represent Bahnsen as some one who was close to them. 

Also, Jordan got Schilder wrong. Jordan used to say that Schilder did not believe in the Covenant of Works, whereas Schilder is very explicit that the Covenant of Works is foundational in covenant theology. So Jordan's is not a reliable opinion on this topic. 

See also:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theonomy

the section "Theological background"


----------



## tewilder (Jan 23, 2007)

caddy said:


> Could someone sum up exactly what "Federal Vision" is? I have heard the term kicked around, but admit I am NOT familiar with it.
> 
> quote=travis;233821]I will have to get this since I am getting ready to read 'Reformed is Not Enough' by Wilson and 'Federal Vision' by Wilkins.


[/QUOTE]

The Federal Vision is a hermetic adaptation of Kline's symbolic theology that attempts to control salvation through ritual, symbol and office.


----------



## ChristopherPaul (Jan 23, 2007)

tewilder said:


> The Federal Vision is a hermetic adaptation of Kline's symbolic theology that attempts to control salvation through ritual, symbol and office.



Did you really mean to use the word "Hermetic"?


----------



## caddy (Jan 23, 2007)

Is it a Hermetically sealed adaptation ?  



ChristopherPaul said:


> Did you really mean to use the word "Hermetic"?


----------



## tewilder (Jan 23, 2007)

ChristopherPaul said:


> Did you really mean to use the word "Hermetic"?



Sure.

The FV is a paradigm change. In simplest terms, it abandons the Reformed paradigm of a bicovenantal scheme, and shadow / future fulfillment typology with a monocovenantal scheme and lower story typology of upper story heavenly reality. The sovereign work of the Spirit (i.e. the much maligned "decretal theology") goes away to make room for the ritual manipulation of symbols by the clergy with the focus of faith directed to visible church membership, ceremonies of baptism and "covenant renewal" services with rubrics from the Tabernacle worship. etc.

The upper story/lower story model together with the symbolic manipulation of their connection is the hermetic (Hermes Trismagistus) scheme.

Trivia question: How many times did Richard Hooker, the founder of Anglican theology, cite Hermes in his (Hooker's) _Laws of Ecclesiastical Polity_?


----------



## toddpedlar (Jan 23, 2007)

When I think "hermetic" (or "hermetically sealed") all I can picture is Carnack the magnificent...


----------



## toddpedlar (Jan 23, 2007)

toddpedlar said:


> When I think "hermetic" (or "hermetically sealed") all I can picture is Carnack the magnificent...



I think that mean's I'm getting old...


----------



## Apologia (Jan 24, 2007)

tewilder said:


> Sure.
> 
> The FV is a paradigm change. In simplest terms, it abandons the Reformed paradigm of a bicovenantal scheme, and shadow / future fulfillment typology with a monocovenantal scheme and lower story typology of upper story heavenly reality. The sovereign work of the Spirit (i.e. the much maligned "decretal theology") goes away to make room for the ritual manipulation of symbols by the clergy with the focus of faith directed to visible church membership, ceremonies of baptism and "covenant renewal" services with rubrics from the Tabernacle worship. etc.
> 
> ...



HUH?!

No wonder there is a controversy...now I am more confused!?


----------



## ChristopherPaul (Jan 24, 2007)

toddpedlar said:


> When I think "hermetic" (or "hermetically sealed") all I can picture is Carnack the magnificent...
> 
> 
> toddpedlar said:
> ...


----------

