# The World's Over Population Crisis



## ChristopherPaul

"So what do you think about the over population problem?"

Having six kids I hear such statements from coworkers. 

I work for the number one green builder in the nation and so from time to time have to sit through environmental lectures and training on how to save the planet which have included statements about educating people to have less children.

What should our response be to such questions and jabs?


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## govols

I think it is great idea that THEY have less kids.


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## TimV

Tell them to drive up Highway 5 in California.

Or, have them read Rushdoony's book The myth of Overpopulation which was actually recommended by the Wall Street Journal. He points to the correlation between national wealth and population density, which is really interesting. Take the most densly populated countries like Holland and Belgium and contrast their national wealth with the Sudan and Congo.

But when you're dealing with people who've never been taught critical thinking it can be like bashing your head into a wall.


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## Anton Bruckner

let them have less children. they have rejected God and they are being turned over to a reprobate mind. "They that hate me love death". They have started to not have children thereby dwindling their numbers, next they will start killing themselves to reduce their carbon foot prints.


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## Pergamum

govols said:


> I think it is great idea that THEY have less kids.



Ha, sorry off topic but I had a conversation with a nutty guy in the military who advocated forceful population control and euthanasia. I almost ended up in a fight when I think I handed him my shoelace (string? rope?) and told him to put his money where his mouth was and start with himself to limit population. Many want less people but who has the guts to remove themselves first?

..he didn't appreciate that too much.


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## Gryphonette

AAMOF, when taking a college speech class several years ago the topic of my persuasive speech was to encourage my classmates to have large families.

_No_ nation on the planet has an overabundance of educated, productive citizens. None. Middle class families producing middle class children who are statistically likely to themselves become productive, tax-paying citizens are a boon and a blessing to a society.

Today's blog post by Al Mohler speaks to this very thing: Where are Europe's babies?

"'You can't have a country where everybody lives in a nursing home.' The statement, shockingly obvious as it may be, was offered by Carl Haub of the Population Reference Bureau. He was speaking of Europe's looming demographic disaster. As _The New York Times Magazine_ reports this week, many Europeans are now asking, 'Where are the babies?'"

[snip]

"_In the 1990s, European demographers began noticing a downward trend in population across the Continent and behind it a sharply falling birthrate. Non-number-crunchers largely ignored the information until a 2002 study by Italian, German and Spanish social scientists focused the data and gave policy makers across the European Union __something to ponder. The figure of 2.1 is widely considered to be the "replacement rate" -- the average number of births per woman that will maintain a country's current population level. At various times in modern history -- during war or famine -- birthrates have fallen below the replacement rate, to "low" or "very low" levels. But Hans-Peter Kohler, José Antonio Ortega and Francesco Billari -- the authors of the 2002 report -- saw something new in the data. For the first time on record, birthrates in southern and Eastern Europe had dropped below 1.3. For the demographers, this number had a special mathematical portent. At that rate, a country's population would be cut in half in 45 years, creating a falling-off-a-cliff effect from which it would be nearly impossible to recover."_

Only an idiot actually believes the canard that Social Security is wholly self-funded, i.e. that recipients only take out that which they personally put in. Ha. No, it's a pay-as-you-go program, with it taking so many tax-payers to support one SS recipient.

You - and I! - are doing our part; we've supplied enough children to pay for our SS benefits, with some left over to support people like your co-worker in _his_ old age. ;^)

Tell him if he'd care to express his appreciation through a restaurant gift card or something, you will not say him nay.


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## Anton Bruckner

Pergamum said:


> govols said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think it is great idea that THEY have less kids.
> 
> 
> 
> I almost ended up in a fight when I think I handed him my shoelace (string? rope?) and told him to put his money where his mouth was and start with himself to limit population. Many want less people but who has the guts to remove themselves first?
> 
> ..he didn't appreciate that too much.
Click to expand...


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## Anton Bruckner

Anne, social security is a government ponzi scheme


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## Pergamum

Yes, and it is hard to respect the elderly when they get entitled over their funds and every 3rd productive worker in the US is carrying their load...a load that will not be carried for us "Young-uns" when we get old because the funds will be gone!


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## BobVigneault

Liberals are under populating themselves out of existence. I'm ok with that.


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## greenbaggins

Here are some fascinating statistics: give every person in the world 1 square foot (enough to stand in), and you can fit the entire world's population in Jacksonville, Fl. Give everyone 1000 square feet (which is more than many people have in their homes), and you can fit the entire world's population in Kansas, Nebraska, and a 10-mile strip of South Dakota. We are not headed for over-population any more than we are headed for global warming. Instead, as Anne pointed out, we are headed for a demographic winter. The only people having babies in abundance right now are right-wing evangelicals, Roman Catholics (some of them), and Muslims. Can you say Roe V Wade by-by soon? We'll conquer them by the cradle!


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## TimV

> My sophomoric answer would be, "That's gay."



You sound like my kids. I'll never forget something Otto Scott said at lunch on a related topic, Keynesian economics "The problem with Keynes' thinking was that he was gay. Well, he had a _pro forma_ marriage with a lesbian ballerina, but he knew he would never have kids, so he didn't care about the repercussions of his thought" 

Be afraid. Be very afraid. We will out breed you. Start treating us nice, or else.


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## R Harris

greenbaggins said:


> Here are some fascinating statistics: give every person in the world 1 square foot (enough to stand in), and you can fit the entire world's population in Jacksonville, Fl. Give everyone 1000 square feet (which is more than many people have in their homes), and you can fit the entire world's population in Kansas, Nebraska, and a 10-mile strip of South Dakota. We are not headed for over-population any more than we are headed for global warming. Instead, as Anne pointed out, we are headed for a demographic winter. The only people having babies in abundance right now are right-wing evangelicals, Roman Catholics (some of them), and Muslims. Can you say Roe V Wade by-by soon? We'll conquer them by the cradle!



Lane, I have heard exactly the same thing except using just one state, Texas, as the example.

If you took 6 billion people and put them all in Texas - even discounting for lakes, ponds, rivers, and streams - each person would have 1100 sq ft to themselves.

As others have stated here, when you have an anti-Christian, anti free market, and anti-freedom in general society, the negative things we see thoughout the world (poverty, starvation, etc.) are the natural consequences.


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## Timothy William

TimV said:


> My sophomoric answer would be, "That's gay."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You sound like my kids. I'll never forget something Otto Scott said at lunch on a related topic, Keynesian economics "The problem with Keynes' thinking was that he was gay. Well, he had a _pro forma_ marriage with a lesbian ballerina, but he knew he would never have kids, so he didn't care about the repercussions of his thought"
> 
> Be afraid. Be very afraid. We will out breed you. Start treating us nice, or else.
Click to expand...


"In the long run we're all dead"... especially if we don't have any children.

Overpopulation or the threat of overpopulation is something of a myth. The world's population growth peaked somewhere around the 1950's, in percentage terms, and in the late 1980's, in absolute terms, and is expected to hit zero somewhere around 2050. What is not usually emphasised is that, by then, fertility per woman is expected to be well below replacement level, and world population is expected to then go into an accelerating decline.


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## Gryphonette

*Oooh, Anne LIKES having Texas as the example. >;^>*



R Harris said:


> greenbaggins said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here are some fascinating statistics: give every person in the world 1 square foot (enough to stand in), and you can fit the entire world's population in Jacksonville, Fl. Give everyone 1000 square feet (which is more than many people have in their homes), and you can fit the entire world's population in Kansas, Nebraska, and a 10-mile strip of South Dakota. We are not headed for over-population any more than we are headed for global warming. Instead, as Anne pointed out, we are headed for a demographic winter. The only people having babies in abundance right now are right-wing evangelicals, Roman Catholics (some of them), and Muslims. Can you say Roe V Wade by-by soon? We'll conquer them by the cradle!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Lane, I have heard exactly the same thing except using just one state, Texas, as the example.
> 
> If you took 6 billion people and put them all in Texas - even discounting for lakes, ponds, rivers, and streams - each person would have 1100 sq ft to themselves.
> 
> As others have stated here, when you have an anti-Christian, anti free market, and anti-freedom in general society, the negative things we see thoughout the world (poverty, starvation, etc.) are the natural consequences.
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard that particular statistic. Good info!


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## kvanlaan

That's the way it goes with the social scientist "experts":

In the 1970's, there was another ice age on the way.

Next it was overpopulation. Now it is appearing to be underpopulation.

All 'scientifically' backed.

These guys remind me of the level of Dante's Inferno where everyone is attached to huge flags that drag them around depending on which way the wind blows.

Whether we breed the froot-loop liberals out of existence or just me and my wife wake up to a world full of Muslims, the battle is the Lord's. (And thank the Lord for that!)


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## ericfromcowtown

In a different thread we were discussing the book _America Alone _by Mark Steyn and his fight with Canadian Human Rights Tribunals. I've only just begun reading the book (who could resist reading a book that a kangaroo court was essentially getting ready to ban?), but Steyn discusses the "myth" of over-population. Over-population isn't a myth, per se, but the telling question is who is over-populating? 

Up here in Canada, we are apparently having too few kids to maintain a stable population (1.5 children per couple), where in Europe the rate is even lower. The U.S. is doing much better at about 2.1 children per couple. In contrast, it is the Muslim world which is growing at amazing / expansionist rates.


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## SRoper

What about water usage? I don't think I have ever seen the problem of water shortages and access to usable water addressed by those who disagree that we will reach overpopulation.


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## Davidius

SRoper said:


> What about water usage? I don't think I have ever seen the problem of water shortages and access to usable water addressed by those who disagree that we will reach overpopulation.



Good point. When we react to the sociologists we tend to respond to the question of overpopulation in purely spatial terms, which is probably a straw man argument. I don't think that these people are just willingly ignorant of the fact that there are millions of acres of unused land. At the very least it should be obvious that there are other factors which must be taken into consideration, such as natural resources.

There's also the fact that everyone in the world may be able to fit into a relatively small area, but the world consists of more than individuals with little plots of land. The infrastructure of society requires space for a lot more than a place to put a bed and a stove.


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## Christusregnat

Christopher,

Ask them if they know how it works 



Adam





ChristopherPaul said:


> "So what do you think about the over population problem?"
> 
> Having six kids I hear such statements from coworkers.
> 
> I work for the number one green builder in the nation and so from time to time have to sit through environmental lectures and training on how to save the planet which have included statements about educating people to have less children.
> 
> What should our response be to such questions and jabs?


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## Christusregnat

Scott,

There are two basic views of creation:

1. Christianity teaches that God is in controll of all things, including land available, water supply, food supply etc.

2. Paganism, under many names, teaches that some other force (man, chance, the gods etc.) outside of God and His Providence rules the world.

Paganism will tend to say that we have "limited resources" and therefore we have to fight one another for those resources, and "control the population".

Christianity will tend to say that God can "bless our socks off" ala Deut 28:

Deuteronomy 28:1 And it shall come to pass, *if thou shalt hearken diligently *unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe and to do *all his commandments* which I command thee this day, that the LORD thy God will set thee on high above all nations of the earth: 2 And all these blessings shall come on thee, and *overtake thee*, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God. 3 Blessed shalt thou be in the city, and blessed shalt thou be *in the field*. 4 Blessed shall be the *fruit of thy body*, and the *fruit of thy ground*, and the fruit of thy *cattle*, the increase of thy *kine*, and the flocks of thy *sheep*. 5 Blessed shall be *thy basket and thy store*. 6 Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in, and blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.


Paganism, since it is in revolt against God, never knows these blessings, but only the curses:

15 But it shall come to pass, *if thou wilt not hearken *unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that *all these curses *shall come upon thee, and overtake thee: 16 Cursed shalt thou be in the city, and cursed shalt thou be *in the field*. 17 Cursed shall be *thy basket and thy store*. 18 Cursed shall be the *fruit of thy body*, and the fruit *of thy land*, the increase of thy *kine*, and the flocks of thy *sheep*....23 And *thy heaven that is over thy head shall be brass*, and the earth that is under thee shall be iron. 24 The LORD *shall make the rain *of thy land *powder and dust*: from heaven shall it come down upon thee, until thou be destroyed. 


Note: God destroys the water supplies of the wicked.

SO, if you are a wicked person or nation, you should be running around like chicken-little because God will curse you. If you are obedient to God's laws, God promises to bless and provide.

To argue about scarcity of resources is to deny divine Providence, whether we do it intentionally or not, it is the same world view (Paganism) under which we operate.

Cheers,

Adam











SRoper said:


> What about water usage? I don't think I have ever seen the problem of water shortages and access to usable water addressed by those who disagree that we will reach overpopulation.


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## Casey

If you have a few billion dollars sitting around, go ahead and buy yourself a floating island or two


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## Witsius

Eric:

Thanks for bringing up Steyn!
Just read half the book. Gave it to a friend in Calgary today.
Ordered 6 more copies to distribute.
Not a great fan of USA, but the book gives me a better perspective.
Keep reading it!! Then pass it on.
Maybe it should have its own thread?


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## raekwon

ChristopherPaul said:


> "So what do you think about the over population problem?"
> 
> Having six kids I hear such statements from coworkers.
> 
> I work for the number one green builder in the nation and so from time to time have to sit through environmental lectures and training on how to save the planet which have included statements about educating people to have less children.
> 
> *What should our response be to such questions and jabs?*



"Well, the world is full of people I don't like, so I figured I'd put some new ones here that I do."


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