# Presbyterian signs



## coramdeo (Nov 30, 2009)

as I am driving about in a city and pass a Presbyterian church, I find it sometimes difficult to discern which branch they are a part of. Few have it posted on their signage. Many do have a symbol of some kind; is the a place where the denominational symbols are listed so I will know. I wouldn't want to visit the wrong one!


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## rrfranks (Nov 30, 2009)

I agree that it can be diffiuclt to tell the denomination. I wish all churches would post their denomination, but many don't because they view denominational affiliation as a liability rather than an asset. This view appears to come from a low view of the church.


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## larryjf (Nov 30, 2009)

These images are from Presbyterian Cross

ARP -





C of S -




ERF -




FPC -




PCA -




PCUSA -


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## Zenas (Nov 30, 2009)

You can tell the difference between faithful and apostate denominations by the presence or absence of a lingering scent of damnation.


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## Osage Bluestem (Nov 30, 2009)

coramdeo said:


> as I am driving about in a city and pass a Presbyterian church, I find it sometimes difficult to discern which branch they are a part of. Few have it posted on their signage. Many do have a symbol of some kind; is the a place where the denominational symbols are listed so I will know. I wouldn't want to visit the wrong one!



Yeah, I will always do some checking before I visit when I am out of town.

I check the internet and if a church isn't clear on their position and denomination I don't visit.

You really can't make an effective plan anymore without doing internet research. If they don't have a website then that points to all kinds of problems right there.


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## Wayne (Nov 30, 2009)

Larry:

Thanks for that link to the page with the various logos. However, you probably know this, but for the sake of non-Presbyterians, that logo identified as "PCA" is for the Presbyterian Church of Australia. 

The Presbyterian Church in America does not yet have a logo. We're working on it, but in good characteristic Presbyterian fashion, it is taking some time.


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## Romans922 (Nov 30, 2009)

Taking a shot at people here: apostate = cross in logo, orthodox = no cross in logo


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## Hamalas (Nov 30, 2009)

Romans922 said:


> Taking a shot at people here: apostate = cross in logo, orthodox = no cross in logo



That sounds like a pretty broad generalization to me. Plus it puts the standards for orthodoxy fairly low.


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## Rich Koster (Nov 30, 2009)

In my humble opinion even if the label looks good on the box, it takes a while to see if the contents are wholesome. I post this not as a smear, but as a reminder to use discernment to see if the house is in order.


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## Reformed Thomist (Nov 30, 2009)

DD2009 said:


> If they don't have a website then that points to all kinds of problems right there.



True that. In our day there's just no good excuse for not having some sort of web presence. Either they're ridiculously out of touch with the culture or they're hidin' somethin'.


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## Wayne (Nov 30, 2009)

My own observation of PC(USA) church web sites has been that the more conservative, evangelical sites tend to hide the PC(USA) connection. There are some sites where you might not find any mention of the denomination. Colonial Presbyterian in Kansas City would be one example. That speaks volumes.


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## PointingToChrist (Nov 30, 2009)

Reformed Thomist said:


> DD2009 said:
> 
> 
> > If they don't have a website then that points to all kinds of problems right there.
> ...



Or they are struggling financially or are not composed of younger people who know how to build websites? Be charitable, brothers.

Mitch


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## DMcFadden (Nov 30, 2009)

Wayne said:


> My own observation of PC(USA) church web sites has been that the more conservative, evangelical sites tend to hide the PC(USA) connection. There are some sites where you might not find any mention of the denomination. Colonial Presbyterian in Kansas City would be one example. That speaks volumes.



Wayne, I think that your observation is a good rule of thumb across the board. In my limited experience, the ABC churches that hid the logo were more likely to be conservatives and vice versa. All seven of the "mainline sisters" denominations have conservative congregations more embarrassed by the identification than proud of it.


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## Edward (Nov 30, 2009)

PointingToChrist said:


> Reformed Thomist said:
> 
> 
> > DD2009 said:
> ...



Some of us might class those two examples (struggling financially and no young folks) as either falling within the 'problems' range, or at least additional symptoms of problems. It could just mean that they are geographically challenged, but even so, there are free options and drag and drop page building out there.


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## PointingToChrist (Dec 1, 2009)

Edward said:


> PointingToChrist said:
> 
> 
> > Reformed Thomist said:
> ...



Yes, they can very well indicate problems, but my point is that some commenters on here have suggested that the lack of a website means sinister activity. Just because a church has people, it doesn't mean any of them have a clue about how to throw up a website.

I believe a website is extremely beneficial to church presence and growth, but I will not fault a church that does not have the means or capacity for not having one. What did the church do through 1995?


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## jwithnell (Dec 1, 2009)

Low tech, but I've often found the yellow pages to be helpful when on the road -- following up with the website, if possible.


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## Romans922 (Dec 1, 2009)

Hamalas said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > Taking a shot at people here: apostate = cross in logo, orthodox = no cross in logo
> ...



Perhaps


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## tcalbrecht (Dec 1, 2009)

Wayne said:


> Larry:
> 
> Thanks for that link to the page with the various logos. However, you probably know this, but for the sake of non-Presbyterians, that logo identified as "PCA" is for the Presbyterian Church of Australia.
> 
> *The Presbyterian Church in America does not yet have a logo. We're working on it, but in good characteristic Presbyterian fashion, it is taking some time.*



As I recall the subject of a PCA logo has come up at GA from time to time since at least 1986. To my knowledge, the concept was never enthusiastically received by the GA as a whole.


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## jogri17 (Dec 1, 2009)

rrfranks said:


> I agree that it can be diffiuclt to tell the denomination. I wish all churches would post their denomination, but many don't because they view denominational affiliation as a liability rather than an asset. This view appears to come from a low view of the church.



ohh please, it comes out of not wanting to fit into non-churched person's steryotypes.


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## Wayne (Dec 1, 2009)

tcalbrecht said:


> As I recall the subject of a PCA logo has come up at GA from time to time since at least 1986. To my knowledge, the concept was never enthusiastically received by the GA as a whole.



Actually, since 1973. At the first General Assembly of the PCA there was discussion of a logo, but it didn't get anywhere. There have been a handful of runs at it since. We're currently working on refining a few designs selected out of a field of about 60 submitted designs, with the hope of presenting a single proposed design to the 38th General Assembly as it meets in Nashville this June, 2010. Then it's up to GA to either approve, send us back to the drawing board, or call it quits for now.


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## tcalbrecht (Dec 1, 2009)

Wayne said:


> tcalbrecht said:
> 
> 
> > As I recall the subject of a PCA logo has come up at GA from time to time since at least 1986. To my knowledge, the concept was never enthusiastically received by the GA as a whole.
> ...



1986 was my first GA, and I recalled this discussion. Didn't they get the presbyteries involved at one point to comment on submitted design(s)? Will that happen again?


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## Wayne (Dec 1, 2009)

Not this time around, so as to avoid the problems of a committee of the whole. What you suggest is certainly one approach. We're taking a different one this time. But in the end of course, it's still the GA that decides.


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## Scottish Lass (Dec 1, 2009)

Romans922 said:


> Taking a shot at people here: apostate = cross in logo, orthodox = no cross in logo



Guess that eliminates the ARP...





As far as websites go, forministry.com does them for between free and $20 (to customize the name). No tech/web knowledge is needed--it's very user-friendly to anyone who can type and/or cut/paste. We've had one visitor in 2.5 years from the phone book and all the rest are from our website.


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## DMcFadden (Dec 1, 2009)

Can't you just go with "full disclosure" "truth in advertising"???


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## David J Houston (Dec 1, 2009)

DMcFadden said:


> Can't you just go with "full disclosure" "truth in advertising"???



LOL Where do you get these pictures?


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## Hawaiian Puritan (Dec 1, 2009)

Wayne said:


> My own observation of PC(USA) church web sites has been that the more conservative, evangelical sites tend to hide the PC(USA) connection. There are some sites where you might not find any mention of the denomination. Colonial Presbyterian in Kansas City would be one example. That speaks volumes.





You mean like my church? (If you look long enough at our website, you will find a single reference.)


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## DMcFadden (Dec 2, 2009)

David J Houston said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> > Can't you just go with "full disclosure" "truth in advertising"???
> ...



There are some satirical sites that do Christian themes. Google images when all else fails.


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## Curt (Dec 2, 2009)

Scottish Lass said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > Taking a shot at people here: apostate = cross in logo, orthodox = no cross in logo
> ...



 This is a simple and inexpensive (or free) option.


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## cpomann (Dec 4, 2009)

I haven't given it much thought. I have probably grown as much in resolve listening to bad services as I have at good!


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