# About heavy metal and christianity



## KaphLamedh

Should born again christian listen and play heavy metal? Is heavy metal totally satan´s music or is every music neutral?
What about so called "christian rock or heavy metal"? Is it possible to use heavy metal music as tool for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ?

I was heavy metal musician, secular one, before I was born again christian. I think it is impossible to use heavy metal. I feel everytime bad when I hear heavy metal, no mather is it christian or secular.
Is metal music satanic or do I just think it is satanic?
I don´t want to fight with anyone, but I want to hear what other true christians think of it. If christian can listen to heavy metal, where is the line?


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## Zenas

What does God's Word say? It's silent as to this sort of specific so far as I can tell. The only thing I can imagine applying so as to discern guidance is Paul's instruction that while all things are legal, not all are profitable. Profitability, for the most part, I think falls under subjective determination. What may be profitable to you might not for me. One of the most conspicuous examples of this is alcohol. 

Line drawing and trying to determine and label particular forms of music as sinful delves into legalism and adding to God's Word where it hasn't spoken. Surely, there are songs that are in and of themselves sinful because they're blasphemous. However, simply because a song is secular or of a particular genre of music doesn't, by itself, make it sinful. The genre of heavy metal is no more sinful than the genre of country music. However, a song of either genre that blasphemed God would be.


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## Wayne

It can certainly have very negative associations, but at its core, it is basically just the worst sort of music and barely deserving that label.


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## Zenas

Wayne said:


> It can certainly have very negative associations, but at its core, it is basically just the worst sort of music and barely deserving that label.




That's merely your opinion though and due largely to a matter of taste. I don't find the type of music appealing either. However, there are some who enjoy it and yet find classic rock or country music abbhorrent and barely deserving of the title of music.


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## Southern Twang

I enjoy heavy metal done by Christians. Christian heavy metal tends to have more uplifting lyrics that call us to persevere in times of hardship. A lot of secular bands mainly express hatred, anger, depression, or some less than positive thought. Of course, not all secular bands do this, but I am troubled by most of the ones I listen to.

Heavy metal is like coffee to me. Instead of a coffee in the morning, I crank up the heavy metal and I'm ready to go 

I'd be interested to see a Biblical case against metal/rock without tainting the argument with culture, taste, and preference bias.


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## Reformed Thomist

KaphLamedh said:


> Is it possible to use heavy metal music as tool for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ?



Sure. Why not?


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## A.J.

KaphLamedh said:


> Should born again christian listen and play heavy metal? Is heavy metal totally satan´s music or is every music neutral?
> What about so called \"christian rock or heavy metal\"? Is it possible to use heavy metal music as tool for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
> 
> I was heavy metal musician, secular one, before I was born again christian. I think it is impossible to use heavy metal. I feel everytime bad when I hear heavy metal, no mather is it christian or secular.
> Is metal music satanic or do I just think it is satanic?
> I don´t want to fight with anyone, but I want to hear what other true christians think of it. If christian can listen to heavy metal, where is the line?



You have raised good questions. A book I recently read discusses this in detail: 

Amazon.com: Why I Left The Contemporary Christian Music Movement: Confessions Of A Former Worship Leader (9780852345177): Dan Lucarini, John Blanchard: Books

The author, Dan Lucarini (who was involved in the "Contemporary Christian Music" movement himself), explains and gives reasons as to why it is inappropriate to use "Christian Rock" into the worship service. He does offer sound reasons one being the unavoidable association of rock music's origins with sexual immorality, drugs, etc. Lucarini also addresses the "music is neutral" objection of "Contemporary Christian Music" advocates.

One big problem I have with the book, however, is that its author is not Reformed and thus does not hold to the Regulative Principle of Worship (RPW). Some of his conclusions on worship are simply and totally unacceptable in a Reformed Lord's Day worship service. 

So is it possible to use metal music as a tool for spreading the gospel of Jesus Christ? Some people may think, of course, that it is possible but Bible-believing Christians would do well to use the God-appointed means in the converting of sinners to Christ, namely, the pure preaching of the gospel. 

A contemporary defense of the RPW is Hart and Muether's

Amazon.com: With Reverence and Awe: Returning to the Basics of Reformed Worship (9780875521794): D. G. Hart, John R. Muether: Books

This book I think offers a better approach than Lucarini's in examining issues like this.


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## Notthemama1984

I think there is also a difference between using Christian rock in worship and listening to Christian rock outside of church. I would not like to see a rock-filled worship service, but I enjoy heavy metal, rock, and anything else with beautiful guitar riffs and solos.


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## Skyler

I wrote a couple posts on this issue:

Contemporary Music – And Beyond! Reformed Eclectology
Lyrics (Addendum to “Contemporary Music”) Reformed Eclectology


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## MrMerlin777

There are many sub genres in heavy metal music. Some are more uplifting than others. One can usually hear the blues and even classical influences in the differing forms of metal music depending on the sub genre. There are some sub genres of metal that ,as a metal fan, even I have little affection for.


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## Skyler

In summary, my main points are that, first of all, the only way something can be _wrong_ (as opposed to simply disliked) is if it is forbidden by an authority--either God, the government, or (in the case of one who is still under his parents' authority) parents. God does not specifically forbid any particular kind of music.

However, some kinds of music do have psychological effects on people and can cause you to sin. Particularly--though not necessarily--music with ungodly lyrics, which can lead to a conscience that is insensitive to sin.

This can be observed in another area in that if you work around people who frequently use vulgar swear words/take the name of the Lord in vain, you become "accustomed" to it and it no longer hits you with the abhorrence that it should.


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## jason d

i love to listen to it and i love to make this kind of music. if you can't listen or play it in good conscience then don't, if you can then you have that liberty.


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## Joseph Scibbe

Though I would be uncomfortable using heavy metal in a worship service I have no problem listening to it outside the service...even when I had my office in the chapel. I don't think any music style is inherently sinful but the lyrics can drive it to either side.


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## Christian Soldier

I enjoyed metal before my conversion and still do. Immediately after I was saved I was made to feel so guilty by legalistic Christians that I threw away all of my secular music and made my wife do the same. I then bought a bunch of Southern Gospel CDs because it appeared that was the only acceptable and sanctified music for Christians. I never could get into that genre so I eventually just stopped listening to music altogether. I thought something was wrong with me because I didn't enjoy that style of music and still wanted to listen to metal and alternative. This is where legalism leads.

I have since started rebuilding my collection (and my wife's) because I see nothing in Scripture that would prohibit a certain style of music. I see it as a matter of preference. I believe discernment should be used however, because there are lyrics that accompany music that are certainly sinful and this goes for any music genre.

And while I would have problems with metal or rap used in corporate worship, I see no reason why a particular musical style can not be used to proclaim the Gospel.


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## Skyler

As a side note, those who were formerly closely entwined with the satanic culture of heavy metal--such as yourself, KL, from the sound of it--will almost inevitably be unable to handle heavy metal as a Christian. It's the same way with a drunkard who becomes a Christian--he can't get near alcohol again because it'll send him back into bondage. So, don't listen to it, especially if it has the effect you describe.


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## Skyler

(in case you were wondering, Joshua is an all-powerful admin and reserves the right to redefine "billion" as "nine" when the case requires)


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## KaphLamedh

As you can see from my testimony from my profile, you can notice that I was playing in many heavy metal bands as well as even in black metal band.
I simply cannot make any difference between christian and secular metal. I listened before bands like Narnia, DivineFire and SAviour Machine, although their lyrics are biblical sometimes and they have good moral views I always felt that, it´s not right in the eyes of God to listen that music. Yes, I was told by some christians that it´s not good to listen that music. Someone said it was ok. I don´t mean that my view is only the right one, that´s why I want to hear your opinions and views. But is it possible that for me it can be "trap" if I listen to that stuff that I might go back to old "heavy metal lifestyle" and God has in His grace gave me the thorn in the flesh if I listen to heavy metal?

-----Added 12/17/2009 at 11:20:06 EST-----



Skyler said:


> As a side note, those who were formerly closely entwined with the satanic culture of heavy metal--such as yourself, KL, from the sound of it--will almost inevitably be unable to handle heavy metal as a Christian. It's the same way with a drunkard who becomes a Christian--he can't get near alcohol again because it'll send him back into bondage. So, don't listen to it, especially if it has the effect you describe.



You answered to my question before I asked it. 
Well, you are right about that.
Yes ex-drunkard can´t take a beer after the sauna, but for "sober" is not problem to take a beer.


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## alb1

My personal experience is that upon becoming a Christian , we all have things in our lives that we want to distance ourselves from. This is a good thing as we need to grow in our faith. I suggest that you currently distance yourself from whatever is spiritually bothering you. In time as you mature in the faith you may feel differently. Who knows, God may even you lead you back to minister to those in the lifestyle that he saved you from.


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## Michael

"Abstain from all appearance of evil." (1Thes 5:22)

So many things in this fallen world have different affects on different people. Simply use wisdom and abstain from that which tempts you away from God. If heavy metal was part of your sinful life prior to salvation, it very well may be something you need to put off in favor of Christ. For others, heavy metal may be a simple matter of indifference, a fitting soundtrack for a part of a movie, or sports highlight, etc.

I used to play very 'violent-sounding' rock music (not really metal, but more punk taken a little too far  ) when I was in a band in my teens and 20's. There is some of it I still enjoy, but for the most part it is folly to me now. I definitely have a new perspective in Christ that cannot be shaken.


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## Bald_Brother

KaphLamedh said:


> Should born again christian listen and play heavy metal? Is heavy metal totally satan´s music or is every music neutral?
> What about so called "christian rock or heavy metal"? Is it possible to use heavy metal music as tool for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
> 
> I was heavy metal musician, secular one, before I was born again christian. I think it is impossible to use heavy metal. I feel everytime bad when I hear heavy metal, no mather is it christian or secular.
> Is metal music satanic or do I just think it is satanic?
> I don´t want to fight with anyone, but I want to hear what other true christians think of it. If christian can listen to heavy metal, where is the line?



You know, when I first became a Christian I was in a similar situation. I had been in punk bands instead of metal. When I became a Christian alot of what I formerly was seemed evil to me. So evil that I concluded it was in fact evil. I lost (for a while) some good friends who had grown up in the church over the music argument specifically.

As I grew in maturity I realized that what I felt about the evils of punk, metal, et al. were most likely the promptings of the Spirit keeping me away from that which could tempt me in my immature faith. The music was wrong for me as it would have violated my conscience as I was being led. My friends were not so bound in conscience over this peripheral issue.

A few years and a bit of wisdom later, I ended up making a lot of apologies.


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## KaphLamedh

Bald_Brother said:


> You know, when I first became a Christian I was in a similar situation. I had been in punk bands instead of metal. When I became a Christian alot of what I formerly was seemed evil to me. So evil that I concluded it was in fact evil. I lost (for a while) some good friends who had grown up in the church over the music argument specifically.
> 
> As I grew in maturity I realized that what I felt about the evils of punk, metal, et al. were most likely the promptings of the Spirit keeping me away from that which could tempt me in my immature faith. The music was wrong for me as it would have violated my conscience as I was being led. My friends were not so bound in conscience over this peripheral issue.
> 
> A few years and a bit of wisdom later, I ended up making a lot of apologies.



Well, I have quite same feelings. I´ve been fighting with this music thing since 2004. Not all the time, but sometimes it comes up. I haven´t listen metal for years, but rather old christian hymns and some classical music like Bach and Handel.

I´m really sure that black and death metal is out of question for christians. The secular one I mean.


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## David

I'm a fan of metal, even now, but a lot of it is appalling. Rammstein's music, for example, is full of murder, destruction and perversion, and rarely anything less. As good as it sounds, and despite the fact I can't quite understand the German lyrics, I try to keep away from such bands.

Other bands, like Iron Maiden, I find to be pretty good. I just avoid their darker songs like Number of the Beast.


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## D. Paul

Southern Twang said:


> Heavy metal is like coffee to me. Instead of a coffee in the morning, I crank up the heavy metal and I'm ready to go



Well, there you go. First it's coffee, then heavy metal. The natural course of addiction will now only lead to the next strongest when HM doesn't "do it" for you anymore...karaoke. Seek help.


Now I feel better at least.

-----Added 12/17/2009 at 10:14:58 EST-----



David said:


> I'm a fan of metal, even now, but a lot of it is appalling. Rammstein's music, for example, is full of murder, destruction and perversion, and rarely anything less. As good as it sounds, and despite the fact I can't quite understand the German lyrics, I try to keep away from such bands.
> 
> Other bands, like Iron Maiden, I find to be pretty good. I just avoid their darker songs like Number of the Beast.



Rrrrreally? Ya' mean like this? Come to think of it, you DO look alot like Bruce
[video=youtube;DQW9wD00Twc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DQW9wD00Twc[/video]


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## Paul Trask

*Heavy Metal Bands are OK if...*

It depends on their lyrics if they are God fearing and theologically correct than I think its OK to listen to. Music is neutral its the lyrics that count. I do not listen to it because I don't usually like the music and I do not like sound of Rap either. I like to hear a melody. If there is no melody I do not consider it music.


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## TeachingTulip

I can't judge "hard metal music" as it is just not a part of my world (I am 69 years old). I do not even know what this kind of music is like or what it represents.

So, I would ask Christians represented on PB how they believe and implement hard metal music to witness to the cross work of Jesus Christ.

Is it a witnessing tool to the holiness and grace of Jesus Christ? How does it magnify His Person?

Is there a gospel message of salvation incorporated within it?

In other words,'s, what is the spiritual and eternal worth of this kind of music making?


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## KaphLamedh

I´ve been thought that where heavy metal can used for spreading the Gospel. It isn´t suitable in islamic countries or countries like North-Korea, but is it suitable in Western countries...

Well, at least I get many good answers and I thank everyone of you.


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## Berean

Someone mentioned "*black metal*". What exactly is that?



> As you can see from my testimony from my profile, you can notice that I was playing in many heavy metal bands as well as even in black metal band.


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## Notthemama1984

Berean said:


> Someone mentioned \"*black metal*\". What exactly is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see from my testimony from my profile, you can notice that I was playing in many heavy metal bands as well as even in black metal band.
Click to expand...


Black metal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## py3ak

Joshua said:


> Here are a billion threads exhausting this subject and then some:
> 
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f51/wrong-listen-hard-rock-double-meaning-question-43934/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/reformed-rap-33752/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/rock-music-lets-debate-evil-neutral-20590/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f47/merger-calvinism-worldliness-53597/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f51/spl...tes-arrangements-beats-inherently-evil-30976/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f51/rap-music-12372/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f48/critique-new-calvinism-49365/#post633040
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f51/why-secular-music-30963/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/rpw-musical-styles-26215/




To Josh's list a more recent thread should be added.
http://www.puritanboard.com/f50/power-music-true-power-beyond-words-54401/


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## Parsifal23

I tend to avoid the "of Satan" line of argument although some bands and genres are undoubtedly satanic. A better way of looking at it is to ask yourself is is "worldly"? or give the appearance of evil? As far as "Christian" Heavy Metal I find the people who do this usually have the best of intentions but the people there usually trying to reach don't care, are belligerent, or think the whole thing is a lame joke I know this from personal experience when I tried to do "positive" rap and share "christian" rap with my lost cohorts some genres of music are just too of the world to be redeemed and discretion being the better part of valor the christian would be better off just avoiding it completely.


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## carlgobelman

Do these threads come in threes or what? There seem to be a lot of threads going around today of the variety of "Can/Should a Christian do...X" (e.g., listen to heavy metal, watch R-rated movies, etc.).


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## Skyler

carlgobelman said:


> Do these threads come in threes or what? There seem to be a lot of threads going around today of the variety of "Can/Should a Christian do...X" (e.g., listen to heavy metal, watch R-rated movies, etc.).



These threads pop up on a more or less regular basis. They slow down for a time, and then someone posts a question, which reminds someone else of another question they had, and so forth.


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## KaphLamedh

Berean said:


> Someone mentioned "*black metal*". What exactly is that?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As you can see from my testimony from my profile, you can notice that I was playing in many heavy metal bands as well as even in black metal band.
Click to expand...


Black metal is satanic or anti-christian form of metal. Musically it´s mainly aggressive and vocals usually are screamed. There has been black metal since early 1980´s, but it came popular in early 90´s when in Norway someone started to burn churches and those arsonists where inside the black metal scene. I wasn´t satanist myself, but it was easy to play such kind on "music". It´s like punk, you really don´t need talents to be "star". I was just playing for fun that stuff. I never likes lyrics, but back then I didn´t care...


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## David FCC

Many people when listening to music just listen to the tune and most of the lyrics go totally unnoticed so personally I struggle with the idea of Christian rock music as the world cannot see the difference between them. Also I feel there is a real danger of vanity creeping in when it comes to "Christian music" just the same as in the secular world with the adoring crowds that buy the cd's and come to listen at the gig's.


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

Being a person who is into extreme Christian metal (Christian Death Metal and Black Metal, otherwise known as "White Metal" and "Unblack Metal" to some, though I do believe both titles sound corny), and hosts what I believe to be the internet's only 100% Christian black metal show, I felt I should comment on this topic.

When it comes to metal, as well as all music, there are two things one must keep in mind.

1) God's conviction upon you
2) Where it stands in God's Word.

There are some who believe that God does not want them listening to it, and I applaud them for devoting themselves to the Lord first above what they desire for themselves. However, one has to realize that what God applies to one person, He does not necessarily apply to another.

1 Thessalonians 5:22 is often used as justification to not listen to any Christian music besides hymns. But, one has to ask an essential question: What is considered evil? Throughout the Bible, the answer is given time and time again - Anything that is not like God (i.e. sin). The next question one should ask, which I will not answer here, as most should know it, is what is considered sin according to the Bible? Answer that, then compare it to the lyrics. Does anything fall into the many categories of sin? Does it glorify God? 

Figure those two out, and you will have found Biblical music. Forget about the genre. If the music is holy and glorifies God, would He really care if it's polka, country, rap, or metal?

Hopefully this clears up some misconceptions about the genres.


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## etexas

KaphLamedh said:


> Should born again christian listen and play heavy metal? Is heavy metal totally satan´s music or is every music neutral?
> What about so called "christian rock or heavy metal"? Is it possible to use heavy metal music as tool for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
> 
> I was heavy metal musician, secular one, before I was born again christian. I think it is impossible to use heavy metal. I feel everytime bad when I hear heavy metal, no mather is it christian or secular.
> Is metal music satanic or do I just think it is satanic?
> I don´t want to fight with anyone, but I want to hear what other true christians think of it. If christian can listen to heavy metal, where is the line?


I will answer with your own "feel". What ever comes not from faith is sin. This is not saying to "style" is evil to all people in all places....HOWEVER, it is an issue with your conscience, you stated:"I feel BAD everytime I hear it.... I would suggest that it has a "negative" background for you, if so, it may well be a prompt of the Holy Ghost to put it behind you. When in such a doubt, PRAY, listen to the Holy Spirit! If it makes you feel bad WHENEVER you hear it...perhaps you should put it away....Peace in Christ!


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## Pilgrim72

KL,
I wish I had seen this thread earlier. But as a Christian, I personally enjoy listening to metal. I like other styles of music too, but metal is probably my favorite. I don't like death or black because good vocals are important to me.
Your situation sorta reminds me of the meat sacrificed to idols. The meat itself wasn't bad to eat, but some saw that it was since it was sacrificed to idols... 

Anyway, there are a few Finnish bands I enjoy listening to. Have you heard of Amorphis? I don't like everything by them, since they have a mixture of death vocals, but here's a cool song that came out last year that I really like. I read the lyrics and I'm not sure what he's talking about... but it doesn't seem evil or satanic.

[video=youtube;uD_DeNmFdAw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD_DeNmFdAw[/video]


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

It's definitely positive, but I do not get the feeling they aren't Christian per say. They, for sure, are not satanic.


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## Andrew P.C.

KaphLamedh said:


> Should born again christian listen and play heavy metal? Is heavy metal totally satan´s music or is every music neutral?
> What about so called "christian rock or heavy metal"? Is it possible to use heavy metal music as tool for spreading the Gospel of Jesus Christ?
> 
> I was heavy metal musician, secular one, before I was born again christian. I think it is impossible to use heavy metal. I feel everytime bad when I hear heavy metal, no mather is it christian or secular.
> Is metal music satanic or do I just think it is satanic?
> I don´t want to fight with anyone, but I want to hear what other true christians think of it. If christian can listen to heavy metal, where is the line?


 
The only things I will say is that you can glorify God in through music. Style isn't of the importance, it's the substance, the lyrics, the heart of the matter. Also, if it goes against your conscience, do not do it for that is sin.

For myself, I listen to bands such as The Devil Wears Prada, August Burns Red, and some other bands from SolidState Records(in line with tooth&nail records... these are so called "Christian" bands). Even though the theology sucks in the lyrics, they are clean lyrics nonetheless and it's one of my favorite styles of music.


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## Blue Tick

Take each song individually along with the bands. Some are not edifying or they're just plain rebellious towards God. For instance I won’t listen to the band Tool but I’ll listen to music performed by Metallica and Morphine. If we want to say Christians shouldn’t listen to Heavy Metal we might as well not listen to the self idol worship of Air Supply, Chicago, and some Country music, etc… and other love centric bands that turn relationships into a god.


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## tlharvey7

O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:


> Being a person who is into extreme Christian metal (Christian Death Metal and Black Metal, otherwise known as \"White Metal\" and \"Unblack Metal\" to some, though I do believe both titles sound corny), and hosts what I believe to be the internet's only 100% Christian black metal show, I felt I should comment on this topic.
> 
> When it comes to metal, as well as all music, there are two things one must keep in mind.
> 
> 1) God's conviction upon you
> 2) Where it stands in God's Word.
> 
> There are some who believe that God does not want them listening to it, and I applaud them for devoting themselves to the Lord first above what they desire for themselves. However, one has to realize that what God applies to one person, He does not necessarily apply to another.
> 
> 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is often used as justification to not listen to any Christian music besides hymns. But, one has to ask an essential question: What is considered evil? Throughout the Bible, the answer is given time and time again - Anything that is not like God (i.e. sin). The next question one should ask, which I will not answer here, as most should know it, is what is considered sin according to the Bible? Answer that, then compare it to the lyrics. Does anything fall into the many categories of sin? Does it glorify God?
> 
> Figure those two out, and you will have found Biblical music. Forget about the genre. If the music is holy and glorifies God, would He really care if it's polka, country, rap, or metal?
> 
> Hopefully this clears up some misconceptions about the genres.


 
using 1 Thess. 5:22 for this argument/discussion is invalid.
to wrench a passage out of context (regarding prophetic utterences) to make this type of point should not be done

1 Thessalonians 5:22? The Sin Sniffer?s Catch-All Verse | Bible.org; NET Bible, Bible Study


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

tlharvey7 said:


> O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:
> 
> 
> 
> Being a person who is into extreme Christian metal (Christian Death Metal and Black Metal, otherwise known as \\\"White Metal\\\" and \\\"Unblack Metal\\\" to some, though I do believe both titles sound corny), and hosts what I believe to be the internet's only 100% Christian black metal show, I felt I should comment on this topic.
> 
> When it comes to metal, as well as all music, there are two things one must keep in mind.
> 
> 1) God's conviction upon you
> 2) Where it stands in God's Word.
> 
> There are some who believe that God does not want them listening to it, and I applaud them for devoting themselves to the Lord first above what they desire for themselves. However, one has to realize that what God applies to one person, He does not necessarily apply to another.
> 
> 1 Thessalonians 5:22 is often used as justification to not listen to any Christian music besides hymns. But, one has to ask an essential question: What is considered evil? Throughout the Bible, the answer is given time and time again - Anything that is not like God (i.e. sin). The next question one should ask, which I will not answer here, as most should know it, is what is considered sin according to the Bible? Answer that, then compare it to the lyrics. Does anything fall into the many categories of sin? Does it glorify God?
> 
> Figure those two out, and you will have found Biblical music. Forget about the genre. If the music is holy and glorifies God, would He really care if it's polka, country, rap, or metal?
> 
> Hopefully this clears up some misconceptions about the genres.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> using 1 Thess. 5:22 for this argument/discussion is invalid.
> to wrench a passage out of context (regarding prophetic utterences) to make this type of point should not be done
> 
> 1 Thessalonians 5:22? The Sin Sniffer?s Catch-All Verse | Bible.org; NET Bible, Bible Study
Click to expand...


I've got a couple friends who have used this argument a number of times. And every time they keep saying that "it sounds/looks/seems evil", thereby justifying the application of the verse (assuming that it's true). For those who don't use that argument, I've always asked them how it's not of God.

I've yet to get a biblical answer.

Christian metal has taken a lot of flack about it being evil. But my argument is, even if it came from satanic metal (which we all agree is unholy and not of God), was it not taken from God by men first? He's just merely taking back what belongs to Him.

I believe that Matthew 7:1 could be applied in this case, because without examining everything done with scripture, what right does someone have to determine if another person is sinning or not through their activities like playing video games, eating lots of snacks, talking on the phone a lot, etc.? This is based on the assumption that 1 Thessalonian 5:22 is pulled out of context to prove such.

If you ask me, we need to get off this road of judging everything everyone does blindly. It's not our place to nitpick through someone's life looking for something that could remotely look like it is of the devil. It's starting to pull the focus away from God, and putting it on making people right with God (which is both unbiblical and sin in of itself. So one could go as far as claiming hypocrisy on the matter), though I will submit that it demoralizes more than helps.

Now, if something comes to our attention, or what a person does is so blatant you can't miss it, that's another matter, because it came to us, and we didn't go digging for it.

Anyways, those are my thoughts on the matter. If I am in error somewhere, feel free to correct me.


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## tlharvey7

well put


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## Prufrock

O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:


> If you ask me, we need to get off this road of judging everything everyone does blindly.



This statement assumes that those who think such forms of music are not prudent for the Christian are making that assumption blindly, rather than having scriptural reason. One may ultimately disagree with their reasoning, nevertheless that does not make it "blind judging."



O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:


> It's not our place to nitpick through someone's life looking for something that could remotely look like it is of the devil. It's starting to pull the focus away from God, and putting it on making people right with God (which is both unbiblical and sin in of itself. So one could go as far as claiming hypocrisy on the matter), though I will submit that it demoralizes more than helps.


 
Also, those who find such forms of music imprudent are not nitpicking, and are certainly not searching through someone's life trying to find something wrong; and much more so are they not trying to make themselves right with God through their actions or abstentions! 

As to reasons, one can bring forth both scriptural reasons and reasons from the light of nature (for instance, read Plato's _Republic_ to see the importance upon human behavior to which men have ascribed *types* of music). If something springs from the base pleasures and instincts of men, or from the dark parts of our culture (orgies, drug use, violent rages, pornographic material, etc), we would never say that we wanted to take that and "redeem it" or use it to honor God: rather we should shun such things and what they represent. Therefore, if "death metal" or "black metal" have originated from these parts of our culture (even just listen to the name!), why should we not treat it the same way? This does not mean we have to be separate from the world in the same sense that many modern fundamentalist sects claim, but it does mean that there are certain aspects or components of culture which should be shunned by the Christian. Also, we are to conduct our lives in such a manner that our minds are sober and well-ordered. So, as you referred to above, this means not spending too much idle time on the phone, indulging in too much food or drink, or immoderately partaking of video games; we need to moderately and soberly use all forms of recreation, labor, food, drink, rest, etc. This also means abstemious behavior regarding certain things which might overtly seem otherwise "neutral." For instance, watching a movie might be just fine; however, we should probably avoid watching deep horror films which have the purpose of instilling true terror in the soul; laughing with friends might be just fine, but we should be wary of company which will throw us into uncontrollable and prolonged giddiness, which is the opposite of sobriety; likewise, it might be just fine to listen to music, but I should probably avoid listening to such *forms* of music which excite various passions in me, such as those which would make me drive my car faster, want to get into a fight (you may laugh, but music can very easily have this power) or dance in inappropriate ways. The question is, does "death metal" lead to this sort of sobriety? Or is it a sort of music which is designed to awaken certain passions or feelings in a person? Ultimately, we might very well disagree as to the conclusion, but I hope you can at least see why some of us are more extremely cautious when it comes to simply jumping on board and saying, "Of course such things are perfectly acceptable! The style of music is neutral so long as the words are glorifying!"


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## Vytautas

Many people commented on the lyrical content of metal, but what of the other parts? Metal is not played a cappella.

The tritone, an interval spanning three whole tones—such as C and F#—was a forbidden dissonance in medieval ecclesiastical singing, which led monks to call it _diabolus in musica_—"the devil in music.”Because of that original symbolic association, it came to be heard in Western cultural convention as "evil". Heavy metal has made extensive use of the tritone in guitar solos and riffs, such as in the beginning of "Black Sabbath".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

Prufrock said:


> O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you ask me, we need to get off this road of judging everything everyone does blindly.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This statement assumes that those who think such forms of music are not prudent for the Christian are making that assumption blindly, rather than having scriptural reason. One may ultimately disagree with their reasoning, nevertheless that does not make it "blind judging."
Click to expand...


Please forgive me for the generality of that statement. The two people I referenced above extended it beyond music and into my life as a whole. While it does apply in some cases, it does not apply with everyone, just as convictions by God may not necessarily apply to everyone. I apologize for my error.



> O'GodHowGreatThouArt said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's not our place to nitpick through someone's life looking for something that could remotely look like it is of the devil. It's starting to pull the focus away from God, and putting it on making people right with God (which is both unbiblical and sin in of itself. So one could go as far as claiming hypocrisy on the matter), though I will submit that it demoralizes more than helps.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Also, those who find such forms of music imprudent are not nitpicking, and are certainly not searching through someone's life trying to find something wrong; and much more so are they not trying to make themselves right with God through their actions or abstentions!
Click to expand...


Again, I attempted, and failed, to generalize the statements I was making to show that this kind of judgment can extend beyond the music scene. My apologies for my mistake.



> As to reasons, one can bring forth both scriptural reasons and reasons from the light of nature (for instance, read Plato's _Republic_ to see the importance upon human behavior to which men have ascribed *types* of music). If something springs from the base pleasures and instincts of men, or from the dark parts of our culture (orgies, drug use, violent rages, pornographic material, etc), we would never say that we wanted to take that and "redeem it" or use it to honor God: rather we should shun such things and what they represent. Therefore, if "death metal" or "black metal" have originated from these parts of our culture (even just listen to the name!), why should we not treat it the same way? This does not mean we have to be separate from the world in the same sense that many modern fundamentalist sects claim, but it does mean that there are certain aspects or components of culture which should be shunned by the Christian.



I will give you this point, but I will also submit to you a question. Can God not take His creation, which was taken from Him and used for wicked purposes, back from those who stole it, and use it for His own purposes? If so, why can't Christian metal be seen from this perspective?



> Also, we are to conduct our lives in such a manner that our minds are sober and well-ordered. So, as you referred to above, this means not spending too much idle time on the phone, indulging in too much food or drink, or immoderately partaking of video games; we need to moderately and soberly use all forms of recreation, labor, food, drink, rest, etc. This also means abstemious behavior regarding certain things which might overtly seem otherwise "neutral." For instance, watching a movie might be just fine; however, we should probably avoid watching deep horror films which have the purpose of instilling true terror in the soul; laughing with friends might be just fine, but we should be wary of company which will throw us into uncontrollable and prolonged giddiness, which is the opposite of sobriety; likewise, it might be just fine to listen to music, but I should probably avoid listening to such *forms* of music which excite various passions in me, such as those which would make me drive my car faster, want to get into a fight (you may laugh, but music can very easily have this power) or dance in inappropriate ways. The question is, does "death metal" lead to this sort of sobriety? Or is it a sort of music which is designed to awaken certain passions or feelings in a person? Ultimately, we might very well disagree as to the conclusion, but I hope you can at least see why some of us are more extremely cautious when it comes to simply jumping on board and saying, "Of course such things are perfectly acceptable! The style of music is neutral so long as the words are glorifying!"



As I've stated before, as long as the music glorifies God, I don't believe He cares what style it is.

I understand and completely respect you for being cautious. I still am to this day regarding my Christian music, because it's so easy for me to be deceived by my own heart thinking a band glorifies God. Recently, I removed an album from my collection because the band deceived a very good friend of mine into thinking they're Christian Black Metal, got signed onto the label, and it turned out they were Atheists (They catapulted in through another Christian Black Metal band, who was just as deceived as myself and my friend was). This wasn't discovered until around Christmas and their album had been out for over a year. Safe to say their album was cut almost immediately upon discovery.

In another instance, I found a band who I had thought was a Christian band based on the reviews I saw, however, when I dug them back up about 3 months later because I had heard they put out new material, it turns out the band was Satanic. That band could not get out of my computer fast enough.

Also, I'm well aware of the power music can have on people; it has driven me to attempt suicide in the past when I was into secular/Satanic death and black metal. As such, my heart breaks at anyone who says they can listen to music and not be affected, because they could be potentially setting themselves up for the very disaster I narrowly avoided seven times by the grace and mercies of God, even though I wanted nothing to do with Him at the time, and not even know it.


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## Michael

Blue Tick said:


> For instance I won’t listen to the band Tool but I’ll listen to music performed by Metallica and *Morphine*.


Hey, now that's a seriously sweet and smooth vox/sax/bass/drum mix right there. Been a fan for years. Some of the lyrics get a little "out there" but overall their music is really something!


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## Gage Browning

I approve of "good metal" and simply disapprove of "bad metal". I grew up listening to bands like Stryper and will leave it to you to decide if that is "good metal" or not.


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## Zenas

Vytautas said:


> Many people commented on the lyrical content of metal, but what of the other parts? Metal is not played a cappella.
> 
> The tritone, an interval spanning three whole tones—such as C and F#—was a forbidden dissonance in medieval ecclesiastical singing, which led monks to call it _diabolus in musica_—"the devil in music.”Because of that original symbolic association, it came to be heard in Western cultural convention as "evil". Heavy metal has made extensive use of the tritone in guitar solos and riffs, such as in the beginning of "Black Sabbath".
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heavy_metal_music


 
Accusations stemming from superstition and ignorance.


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## Pilgrim72

Gage Browning said:


> I approve of "good metal" and simply disapprove of "bad metal". I grew up listening to bands like Stryper and will leave it to you to decide if that is "good metal" or not.


 
Good or bad? Hmm. Is there a "cheese" pile I can put them in?


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## smhbbag

I find a lot of agreement with what Paul wrote above.

I think it is fairly plain that music functions as a tool. It affects our emotions, and that is why we listen to it. Different music styles can make us happy, pensive, sad, energetic, angry, bold, triumphant, etc.

None of these things are bad, in and of themselves. But, like every other tool, it must be used for the job for which it was designed - using it any other way can cause damage. I'm also reminded, on this subject, of the Song of Solomon - do not awaken love before its time. Or, in general, do not arouse impulses and emotions when there is no proper outlet for them.

Heavy metal arouses anger, boldness, venting, defiance, rage, and other similar emotions. By definition, those are the reasons one would scream and shout, which is part of the definition of heavy metal itself.

Those emotions have proper outlets in the Christian life, and they can be felt and used without sin. But those occasions are indeed very rare. It is FAR from healthy or wise to bring about those intense emotions (even if dialed-back by some form of self-discipline) when one has no proper use for them.

When is it good and noble to scream with primal rage? Well, that may be the occasion on which I choose to listen to heavy metal. Outside of a soldier preparing for imminent battle in defense of what is good, I can't think of much that would qualify. But I still won't call it music


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## tlharvey7

"Outside of a soldier preparing for imminent battle in defense of what is good" you just described the Christian walk


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