# Matthew 24:28 vs. Luke 17:37 Eagles - Vultures, Corpse - Living Body



## Ed Walsh (Oct 4, 2022)

Greetings Scholars, and my fellow wannabe Scholars,

In Matthew 24:28 & Luke 17:37, these two uses of the phrase, "Where the 'corpse' is, there, the vultures will gather," have puzzled me for 50 years.
Is there harmony between the two places? Or are they different sayings with different meanings altogether? I lean toward them being the same event, but it's a stretch. A big one.

Matthew 24:27-28 ESV​For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man.​Wherever the *'corpse' is, there the vultures will gather.​*[πτῶμα (always means dead body)] 

It seems like the ESV translators decided that the Matt and Luke sayings were identical. Thus they translated them word-for-word the same. But I wonder. 

Luke 17:34-35, 37 ESV​I tell you, in that night there will be two in one bed. One will be taken and the other left.​There will be two women grinding together. One will be taken and the other left. And they said to him,​"Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the *'corpse' is, there, the vultures will gather."​*[σῶμα – body, occurs 142 times in ESV and almost always refers to a living body, *'corpse' used only here plus two verses referring to Jesus' dead body)] 
*translated as 'corpse' only two additional places, both referring to the dead body of Jesus,

KJV - translated more accurately (in my opinion-I am not a scholar)
Wheresoever the 'body' is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.​
Here is Matthew Poole's comment regarding Luke 17: 37 –
Concerning the sense of this proverbial expression, and the various application of it by interpreters, see the notes on Matt. 24:28. In our evangelist (where it is σῶμα, not πτῶμα, as in Matthew, the word there properly signifying a dead body, the word here a living body) it seems to be applied to Christ's glorious coming to judgment: Where I shall be, who am to be the Judge both of the quick and the dead, thither shall all the world be gathered before me, but my saints especially, who have eagles' eyes, senses exercised to discern betwixt good and evil, to discern me as their Redeemer, and the true Messiah; according to that, Psal. 50:5, 6, Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself.​​Help will be appreciated.

Thanks,

Ed


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Oct 4, 2022)

I’ve heard some advocate “eagles” as a veiled reference to the Roman standards that swooped in when Jerusalem fell.

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## Ed Walsh (Oct 4, 2022)

PointyHaired Calvinist said:


> I’ve heard some advocate “eagles” as a veiled reference to the Roman standards that swooped in when Jerusalem fell.



Me too. Thanks for replying.
It doesn't look like this one gonna be a big hit.  

Thanks again,

Ed


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## alexanderjames (Oct 5, 2022)

I have wondered about this in the past too. Surely there is harmony between the two as parallels, but whether they refer to "corpses" and "vultures" or "bodies" and "eagles" I do not know.

Keen to hear the thoughts of others.

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## alexanderjames (Oct 5, 2022)

Some suggest that the Lord Jesus is simply saying in effect, "the sign of my Coming will be clear and plain to see", and this particular verse being used like an idiom such as "where there is smoke there is fire". If this is the case, perhaps I have been overthinking it in the past, unless Christ's words are multi-faceted in meaning.

However there appear to be a number of different opinions (as ever!) from a quick search online.

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## Ed Walsh (Oct 5, 2022)

alexanderjames said:


> I have wondered about this in the past too. Surely there is harmony between the two as parallels, but whether they refer to "corpses" and "vultures" or "bodies" and "eagles" I do not know.



I think we can be 100% sure that 'corpse' in Matthew means 'dead' body. I looked at all the verses in the NT where the Gk word 'πτῶμα' is used, and it always was translated as a dead body.

Luke is different. The Gk word 'σῶμα' is rarely translated as a 'dead' body. In the ESV, it is translated as "corpse' only three times of the 142 occurrences of the word. That is only *2.11%* of the time. A few times when the English word 'body' means a 'dead' body, they are scarce. As I recall, the Gk word translated as 'body' is used maybe three times about Jesus' body between the cross and the empty tomb. And I can see a possible reason. To refer to Jesus' dead body as a corpse seems inappropriate to me. His body was different than any other in that it never began to decay as all others do within minutes of death. (I am talking layman's terms only. My knowledge of Greek approaches _zero_)

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## Eyedoc84 (Oct 5, 2022)

alexanderjames said:


> Some suggest that the Lord Jesus is simply saying in effect, "the sign of my Coming will be clear and plain to see", and this particular verse being used like an idiom such as "where there is smoke there is fire". If this is the case, perhaps I have been overthinking it in the past, unless Christ's words are multi-faceted in meaning.
> 
> However there appear to be a number of different opinions (as ever!) from a quick search online.


this is how i read it

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