# Infinite patience



## py3ak (Jun 14, 2015)

Stephen Charnock writes of how God's patience and slowness to anger are critical to the government of the world:

Infinite patience is requisite to the preservation and government of the world, in the circumstances wherein it hath stood ever since the fall. What angel, though the meekest, or can all the angels in heaven, be masters of so much patience as is needful for this work of governing the world, though for the space of one day? Could they bear with all those evils which are committed in the world in the space of twenty-four hours? Might we not reasonably conceive, that they would be so tired with the obliquities, disorders, deformities which they would see in the acts of men (besides all the evil which is in the hearts of men, which lie without the verge of their knowledge), that they would rather call for fire from heaven to burn the world to ashes.
Averroes thought that because of God’s slowness to anger, he meddled not with sublunary concerns. This rather fits him for it, because he can bear with the injuries of wicked men, otherwise the world would not continue a moment.​


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## Pergamum (Jun 15, 2015)

I am struggling to understand the "infinite" part of His patience. Here is a quote by Sproul:



> “God’s grace is not infinite. God is infinite, and God is gracious. We experience the grace of an infinite God, but grace is not infinite.
> 
> God sets limits to His patience and forbearance. He warns us over and over again that someday the ax will fall and His judgment will be poured out.”
> 
> ― R.C. Sproul, The Holiness of God



Will God need infinite patience since the running of the universe in its present state is only for a short time and soon He will throw the wicked into hell and the eternal state will dawn? Will God have a need for patience in the New Heavens an New Earth?


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## py3ak (Jun 15, 2015)

I think you and Dr. Sproul are both failing to make a vital distinction. Of course God's grace, patience, etc., are infinite intrinsically. One can speak of boundaries with regard to their exercise. As finite beings, we are not capable of infinity, not even of receiving infinity; but that does not mean that God himself does not possess these things in infinite measure.


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## Pergamum (Jun 15, 2015)

Question: So patience is an attribute of God which is in Him infinitely, rather than an action or disposition of God that He exercises towards His creation? If this is so, how can God be intrinsically patient without an infinite creation to be patient towards? Was He patient before the creation of the universe? I had always thought of God's wrath and patience as dispositions towards His creatures that He exercises in time due to his eternal and intrinsic attributes of Holiness and Love (i.e. I have never thought of God's patience being infinite and intrinsic to His being). Can you explain further?


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## py3ak (Jun 15, 2015)

You can certainly break it down that way. The fragmented reality of creation gives scope for God's simplicity to appear to us in many aspects, to which we apply different names, and some of which are exceedingly hard to conceptualize absent the terrestrial prisms that refracted them. In terms of our experience, patience is ongoing goodness in the face of provocation: are there any bounds on the fountain of goodness?


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## Pergamum (Jun 15, 2015)

Ok, thanks. If you have any book links to help me understand better, I am all ears. I often get very confused in these realms (such as God's simplicity)... deep waters.


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## py3ak (Jun 15, 2015)

This came up not too long ago, so links are easy!

http://www.puritanboard.com/showthread.php/83023-Best-Reformed-literature-on-Divine-simplicity


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## Pergamum (Jun 15, 2015)

Reading now...


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