# R.L. Allan Bibles Review



## JM

[video=youtube;3xha8I5hyDI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xha8I5hyDI&feature=bf_next&list=QL&index=2[/video]


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## Michael

Awesome.


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## bookslover

Very well done. That was helpful. I don't think any American Bible publishers will be putting R. L. Allan out of business any time soon.


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## DMcFadden

I just sold two R.L. Allan Bibles: both of them were exquisite.

But, while off-loading the two, I am keeping my Atlantic Blue Longprimer - 400th Anniversary limited edition. It is the NICEST Bible I have ever owned. WOW!!! It is just as flexible as the demonstration in the video. If you use the KJV or want a commemorative edition during this 400th anniversary year, you better hurry and get one before they are all gone!

My library also has a R.L. Allan Crimson ESV Reader's Edition. It has a little less yapp than the Blue Longprimer, but is gorgeous and ridiculously flexible.

The R.L. Allan Bibles cost a little more than the Crossway premium ESV Study Bible and the Nelson Signature Line premium NKJV. However, while my skills do not enable me to differentiate the differences in the Smyth sewn Bibles put out by the three publishers, the Allan "one of a kind" "hand-made" Bibles typically boast the best leather you can find from a commercial vendor.

Besides, get an Allan and be one of the Neanderthals who use something other than an electronic tablet in the next few decades! 

[BTW - taking Lane's suggestion to read _The Legacy of the King James Bible_, it is a WONDERFUL read and a blessing. I'm using the KJV as much as possible this year and trying to read 3 or 4 of the best histories of it.]


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## JM

I wouldn't mind getting my hands one a Longprimer but the cost! Even with free shipping.


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## Pilgrim

I'll probably regret not getting the Atlantic Blue Longprimer in years to come. It's expensive now but nothing like what it will be when they sell out. 

I got Ryken's _Legacy of the King James Bible_ but haven't read it yet.


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## DMcFadden

I received my Atlantic Blue Longprimer a couple of weeks ago. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Just finished Ryken a day or two ago. It was inspirational and challenging.

After surveying the various aspects of the KJV history, reasons for its literary power, and examples of usage in literature, he concludes by observing:
• “First, we have lost a common English Bible in both the church and culture at large.”
•	“Second, the authority of the Bible went into eclipse when we lost a common Bible.”
•	“Third, biblical illiteracy has accompanied the decline of the King James Bible.”
•	“Finally, we have lost the affective and literary power of the King James Bible—not in an absolute sense, inasmuch as the RSV, NKJV, and ESV do a wonderful job of approximating the qualities of the KJV in updated English vocabulary. But approximation is not duplication.”

As to the dynamic equivalent translations, he speaks sternly, but gently. Those who have adopted the various dynamic equivalent alternatives to the formal correspondence translations “have no reason to gloat; they have exchanged a birthright of excellence for something manifestly inferior.”
One of the most interesting aspects of the book deals with the loss of poetic cadence and meter. Since upwards of 1/3 of the Bible consists in the genre of poetry, clumsy and sometimes hamfisted renderings do a disserve to the Word of God.

Ryken contends that the Bible was written with the intend to impact our intellect, volition, AND emotions. The KJV (how “Puritan” of it) appeals effectively to the mind and to the affective dimensions of human experience. Placing a verse from the KJV up against one from the NIV, he demonstrates how the art and artistry of the KJV translators excelled in reproducing accented and unaccented syllables in ways that drove home the truth to the emotions while the NIV clumsily missed that point.

Even granting that there might be some serious debates over cause and effect, historically paired instances and logically necessary consequences, this is a GREAT book to read in the 400th anniversary year of the KJV.

Ryken appears to be a committed and regular ESV user who has enormous respect for the general superiority of the KJV and an enormous sadness for what we have lost by supplanting it. I have decided to do the majority of my teaching in 2011 out of my blue Lomgprimer KJV. Reading Ryken convinced me of that much. There will be time enough to return to the Crimson R.L. Allan ESV next year.


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## Ne Oublie

Dennis, you convinced me! I can't wait.


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## Pilgrim

*Ryken*

Knowing that he was such a ESV fan, I was somewhat surprised at the strength of Dr. Ryken's statements about the KJV and what has been lost by the move away from it. That's what sold me on the book when looking at it in the bookstore. But given his focus on the literary legacy in particular I suppose it is not surprising. 

Can a man (or woman) be said to be truly literate in English without at least some familiarity with the AV? No less of a Critical Text (or eclectic text) advocate than Daniel Wallace states that everyone should have an AV and be familiar with it.


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## LawrenceU

I have not read Ryken's book, but I should pick up a copy and see just how much of it sounds like he was sitting at my father's dinner table with me for all those years. I, too, am not a KJV exclusivist. I do however have a great deal of respect for it.


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## JennyG

I never use anything but the KJV. But being "KJV only" means something more than that, doesn't it? 

I'm still waiting for my copy of Ryken, but the posts above have got me salivating.


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## DMcFadden

KJV *only *implies either (or both) of the following:

* The texts behind the KJV (Textus Receptus) are the only inerrant texts from which the Bible should be translated. The modern translations (NASB, ESV, HCSB, NIV, NLT) are based on inferior manuscripts, possibly with heretical tendencies (since they were originally buried in the Egyptian deserts, a hotbed of heresy in the third and fourth centuries).

* God providentially guided the 47 translators of the KJV so that what they translated into English is the inspired and inerrant Word of God, even where they are deemed "wrong" by modern translators.

Most reasonable people who honor the KJV do NOT buy the ideology of the KJV Only crowd.

There are sound reasons to prefer a modern translation and with the NKJV, even those who are committed to the Byzantine textual tradition (behind the KJV but NOT the modern translations), can have their cake and eat it too.

Ryken is an ESV man who accepts the logic of using the "older and best" manuscripts (primarily the Alexandrian texts: Sinaiticus, Vaticanus, and Alexandrinus) but feels that the dynamic equivalent translations (e.g., NIV and NLT) have subtracted some things that made the KJV superior. Among them, he argues that the poetry of the Bible is botched by the dynamic equivalent translations, losing some of the affective (emotional) evocative power put into the Word by the Holy Spirit. He speaks of the ESV and NKJV as "approximating" but not "duplicating" the affective power of the KJV.

"Majority" text (somewhat equal, but not identical) to Textus Receptus is represented in the KJV and NKJV. The Critical Text (aka eclectic text) chooses between the various text types on a verse by verse basis, selecting the one that the editors believe to represent the closest approximation to the original autographs. Because of this, you will find subtle differences in translation between modern texts, based on more than translator style. The ESV scholars, for example, differ in a number of places with the decisions of the NIV translators as to the "original" text behind the Greek.

Recently a new "critical edition" was unveiled under the sponsorship of the Society for Biblical Literature. Their critical text differs from the United Bible Societies/Aland critical text in numerous places. For example, it believes that the original for Mark 1:41 suggests that Jesus was "filled with anger" rather than "moved by compassion."

Ultimately, no doctrines are endangered by the textual differences. Actually, there are really relatively few translatable differences anyhow. Most of the variants involve spelling differences common to a pre-printed pre-computerized era. For example, even after the advent of modern typesetting and computer standardization, Puritan divines would sometimes spell the same word differently on the SAME page!!! But, nobody would call those "errors" in their texts.

Textual expert, Dr. Bart Ehrman (Moody, Wheaton, Princeton), has made a cottage industry out of his new found agnosticism, rooted (he claims) in the impossibility of reclaiming the "original" New Testament. He has debated Reformed Baptist Dr. James White, who defends inerrancy while castigating the KJV-Only movement. Both White and Ehrman prefer the "critical" "eclectic" text (i.e., choosing the best reading from among the differing manuscripts on a case by case basis). Yet, Ehrman concludes that this destroys the possibility of inerrancy (at least as taught to him at Moody and Wheaton) and has become either an atheist or agnostic. White defends the inerrancy of Scripture without concern about the diversity of the manuscript tradition.


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## JM

JennyG said:


> I never use anything but the KJV.



My children have been raised on the AV, we have many other translations but use the AV for family reading, study and our Pastor preaches from it. I guess I would fall into the TR only crowd.


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## torstar

Pilgrim said:


> I'll probably regret not getting the Atlantic Blue Longprimer in years to come. It's expensive now but nothing like what it will be when they sell out.
> 
> I got Ryken's _Legacy of the King James Bible_ but haven't read it yet.


 

Grab an Atlantic Blue while you can.

The Longprimer's print makes my Allan ESV's print look tiny and faded.


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## JennyG

Thanks for that interesting post, Dennis. I truly don't know if this is a contentious statement, but I've always believed that the version God gave to be a blessing to the entire English-speaking world for 4 long centuries, just wasn't going to be riddled with errors, however inconsequential (and whatever the textual critics say).



DMcFadden said:


> Their critical text differs from the United Bible Societies/Aland critical text in numerous places. For example, it believes that the original for Mark 1:41 suggests that Jesus was "filled with anger" rather than "moved by compassion."


is that even likely, on any commonsense view?


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## DMcFadden

The textual support for "moved with pity" is very strong and includes: S A B C K L W Delta Theta Pi 090 f1 f13 28 33 565 700 892 1010 1241 Byz Lect most lat vg syr cop; followed by translations such as: KJV ASV RSV NASV NIV NEBn TEV

The argument for "being angry" includes: D four lat; and is followed by the NEB and TEVn

This is a great case study in the way textual critics think. They have to admit that the attestation for "moved with pity" is MUCH stronger than for "being angry." However, in their minds, the more difficult reading is also probably the more likely. In other words, it is much easier to see why a copyist would change "being angry" to "moved with pity" than to see why they would have changed "moved with pity" to "being angry." So, we are left with external evidence vs. internal evidence. How you weigh the two "sources" will determine what kind of textual critic you end up being.

Another way of stating it is the old line: do you "weigh" the evidence or "count" it? If you "weigh" the internal evidence as most significant, then (all things being equal) you will prefer the more unlikely reading as the more accurate one.


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## toddpedlar

DMcFadden said:


> I received my Atlantic Blue Longprimer a couple of weeks ago. Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



I confess envy. I SO wish I had the ready funds to buy one of these. I haven't ever been able to pony up enough $ all at once to purchase one, but a quality AV like this one is what I've longed for. Ach. I gather from the Allen's site that they're between printings, but evangelical-bible.com still has copies for sale (not for long I suspect). 

Anyone have $200 to lend? I'm good for it - just don't have it at the moment.


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## DMcFadden

Todd, I am doing a wedding tomorrow (outdoors) and was checking out which Bible to use. My ESV, HCSB, and NKJV all look faded and small (to my aging eyes anyhow) against the Longprimer. The type is crisp and quite dark (without being distracting).


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## toddpedlar

DMcFadden said:


> Todd, I am doing a wedding tomorrow (outdoors) and was checking out which Bible to use. My ESV, HCSB, and NKJV all look faded and small (to my aging eyes anyhow) against the Longprimer. The type is crisp and quite dark (without being distracting).


 
I'm sure.... No need to sell me on it. I'm sold. (just can't buy).


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## DMcFadden

Cool avatar, Dr. Pedlar! Welcome to the world of the PB Atlantic Blue Longprimer club. (Don't you just love the blue under gold edging?) Our club does not meet that often. However, you are hereby authorized to work on a secret handshake.


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## torstar

Dennis, I think we are the only board members who have possession of one so far.


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## DMcFadden

Kent, it doesn't take a village to raise a ruckus over the very bestest, coolest, neatest, most amazing Bible I have ever seen! You, me, and one other are enough to form our exclusive club. Remember, wherever two or three Atlantic Blue Longprimer owners gather, there is an understandable, albeit insatiable, appetite for the Word of God. [Full disclosure: Blue is my favorite color. The blue under gold gilded edges are a striking departure from other Bibles. Check out Todd's avatar.]


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## toddpedlar

DMcFadden said:


> Cool avatar, Dr. Pedlar! Welcome to the world of the PB Atlantic Blue Longprimer club. (Don't you just love the blue under gold edging?) Our club does not meet that often. However, you are hereby authorized to work on a secret handshake.


 
Yes, that avatar contains the genuine article, on my desk at work, after rapid shipment from evangelicalbible.com. Not sure how many of the Atlantic Blue Longprimers they have left, but I must say, What a GORGEOUS Bible... It is, as you said earlier, every bit as beautiful as it looks in the video reviews, and feels better than I ever expected. Wonderfully soft leather, surprisingly thick - actually, but supple and nicely grained. Clear, large and beautiful typeface, and everything I thought I'd be able to have someday in an R. L. Allan KJV (only thanks to a VERY great and generous blessing, it's here on my desk now - well, not THAT desk in the avatar shot anymore, now it's on my desk at home!) My ringing endorsement is hereby added to the many already out there for these fine editions. I would be remiss if I didn't point out that the primary blessing, of course, is that God has not left us bereft of His revealed will to us, but He has given us His Word... but the beautiful Bible that this gift to me represents is also much appreciated both for its fine craftsmanship and physical beauty. 

Now as for that handshake... hm. I'll have to think about it


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## LawrenceU

Wow, that really is a beautiful Bible. My, on my. . .


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