# A discussion on worship



## toddpedlar (Jul 31, 2007)

Hi all -

I'm in a discussion with a friend about worship; he's of the mind that once in a while a sermon isn't absolutely necessary for proper Sunday morning worship - that so-called "testimony meetings" are a legitimate replacement for the preached Word. 

Now I'm going to study the issue so that I can present a cogent argument against this - but would like to hear your thoughts. It's a rare, and shocking, frankly, discussion (in my experience) to have to argue for the necessity of preaching with an otherwise sound evangelical... but this is where God has me in this discussion. Certainly the requirements given in 1 Timothy and Titus speak to the need for elders to teach - and to Timothy to preach and exhort - and the words from Paul concerning the necessity of preaching for people to come to faith...

I'd appreciate thoughts from those who have studied this particular issue before. Thanks!


Todd


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## ADKing (Aug 1, 2007)

I would start be taking a look at the Westminster Larger Catechism 155-160. The Spirit makes the reading but especially the preaching of the Word effectual...The proof texts will give you a good idea of what Scriptures to use in your conversation with your friend. God has appointed certain means and has given the promise of his blessing only to those means he has appointed. Of course from there you could move on to the question regarding who God has appointed to preach the Word in case your friend has the idea that "everyone can preach by sharing his testimony". 

Another thing I think is very important to be remembered is that the preaching of the Word is a communication of the _objective_ acts of God in history that concern the whole church. It is by having these things applied to us that we are saved and grow in grace. There is _not_ a parallel between David in the psalms (for example) recounting what good things the Lord has done for him and modern believers doing the same. David spoke as an inspired prophet and his experience was to be the experience that every believer is to share in. If I tell you about God's great providence toward me this week, you may be encouraged and rejoice with me, but it is not an objective redemptive-historical event that you too are called to participate in. I think this attitude of testimony sharing is dangerous not only because it ignores the RPW, but because it seems to depreciate the objective and universal application of the inspired Scriptures while at the same time elevating the private and personal experiences of man. Why not just tell exciting stories of God's providence in the lives of the matryrs and reformers? There is a difference between redemptive history and what follows--even between the accomplishment of redepmtion and the individual application of it. 

I am not sure if this is helpful to you. Maybe it will get you started anyway?


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## KMK (Aug 1, 2007)

That was a good reply!

Maybe also point out that (this helped me when I was struggling with the Purpose Driven issue) there is no example of such being done in the hearly church. However we are told that they were steadfast in doctrine (preaching/teaching). 

However, one must be careful not to lead the sheep to believe that their testimonies are not valued. After all, the preacher gets to share his own testimony and experiences as part of his preaching. When Christ works in our lives we have a desire to share about it! Perhaps testimonies could be shared as part of a fellowship meal or prayer meeting and would actually be used by the HS for everyone's edification.


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## ADKing (Aug 1, 2007)

KMK said:


> That was a good reply!
> 
> Maybe also point out that (this helped me when I was struggling with the Purpose Driven issue) there is no example of such being done in the hearly church. However we are told that they were steadfast in doctrine (preaching/teaching).
> 
> However, one must be careful not to lead the sheep to believe that their testimonies are not valued. After all, the preacher gets to share his own testimony and experiences as part of his preaching. When Christ works in our lives we have a desire to share about it! Perhaps testimonies could be shared as part of a fellowship meal or prayer meeting and would actually be used by the HS for everyone's edification.



I definitely agree that the saints can gain a great deal of encouragement from sharing how God has dealt with them providentially. Maybe this would be a way to elevate conversations after the serive above the mundane things we are prone to talk about. 

I do think that even preachers should be very careful not to allow too much of the personal to intrude into their sermons. Granted that a preacher should have experiential knowledge of what he is preaching! Nevertheless, it is important that the official proclamation of God's Word not be blurred with the personal and private opinions and experiences of men. A minister stands before the congregation to proclaim "Thus saith the Lord".


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