# I have joined the Dark Side....



## T.A.G. (Jul 12, 2011)

I am now a Presbyterian....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dtBUou69SQ&feature=related


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## caoclan (Jul 12, 2011)

It is inevitable for all, bwahahaha!!!


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## JML (Jul 12, 2011)

So, I guess you are prepared to pay double the tuition at SEBTS now?

Seriously though, I hope that the Lord blesses you. I am attending a Presbyterian church but am still a Baptist.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jul 12, 2011)

Double tuition at SEBTS is still cheaper than regular tuition at Westminster or RTS. Seriously though, may God bless you on your journey, and now you can have that beer


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## T.A.G. (Jul 12, 2011)

still no beer until I am done my MA lol! But thanks brother!


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## Gage Browning (Jul 12, 2011)




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## kodos (Jul 13, 2011)

Welcome aboard! I just made the journey over a few months ago. The Frozen Chosen have just grown by one


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## Skyler (Jul 13, 2011)

You're not my father! I will never join you!


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## Steve Curtis (Jul 13, 2011)

I made a similar move many years ago (and its not _that_ dark over here!)


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## Marrow Man (Jul 13, 2011)

Except for Skylar p), it seems that people are much nicer when a Baptist becomes a Presbyterian than when a Presbyterian becomes a Baptist. 

Oh, btw, I made the move over 20 years ago, but they still haven't made me a Sith Lord yet.


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## Herald (Jul 13, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Except for Skylar p), it seems that people are much nicer when a Baptist becomes a Presbyterian than when a Presbyterian becomes a Baptist.
> 
> Oh, btw, I made the move over 20 years ago, but they still haven't made me a Sith Lord yet.



No, Tim. You're just a STIFF Lord.  Sorry, I couldn't resist.


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## Marrow Man (Jul 13, 2011)




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## LawrenceU (Jul 13, 2011)

I am curious as to why someone who makes a move regarding a serious theological debate would call the side of his choice 'The Dark Side' - even in jest. I'm a Baptist and I wouldn't even do that.


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## BobVigneault (Jul 13, 2011)

You're a Baptist Lawrence, you answered your own question. If you want the psychological angle, one who switches allegiance knows he's made an important move but knows it will discourage his friends in camp one. He uses humor to try and test the sentiments of his friends from camp one and to defuse any serious tone. It's not the first time that Presbyterianism has been referred to as the 'dark side'. It does seem to be the trend in those who are seeking more puritan precision in their systematic theology.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jul 13, 2011)

Most reformed Baptists refer to Presbyterianism as "The Dark Side." It is not out of disrespect, it is just because most of us grew up in a more Arminian atmosphere and were taught that Calvinism was evil. Our use of the term "Dark Side" is just a way of expressing our rebellion.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jul 13, 2011)

I would think the "dark" side refers to dark beer...but then again, I am Baptist and drink dark beer.


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## LawrenceU (Jul 13, 2011)

What I meant to say is that even as a Baptist I would not call Presbyterianism 'The Dark Side'. I think it speaks to an antagonism that should not exist in the church. Perhaps I'm an old fuddy duddy.


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## BobVigneault (Jul 13, 2011)

View attachment 2128

Lawrence, I think this picture explains the whole Baptist, Presbyterian and Dark Side controversy.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 13, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Double tuition at SEBTS is still cheaper than regular tuition at Westminster or RTS. Seriously though, may God bless you on your journey, and now you can have that beer



Is it really?


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## kodos (Jul 13, 2011)

I believe only the Roman Church can make you a Sith Lord. The closest you can get as a Presbyterian is to become a member of a commission of some sort 



Marrow Man said:


> Except for Skylar p), it seems that people are much nicer when a Baptist becomes a Presbyterian than when a Presbyterian becomes a Baptist.
> 
> Oh, btw, I made the move over 20 years ago, but they still haven't made me a Sith Lord yet.


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## LawrenceU (Jul 13, 2011)

BobVigneault said:


> View attachment 2128
> 
> Lawrence, I think this picture explains the whole Baptist, Presbyterian and Dark Side controversy.



That actually helps a lot.


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## VictorBravo (Jul 13, 2011)

LawrenceU said:


> What I meant to say is that even as a Baptist I would not call Presbyterianism 'The Dark Side'. I think it speaks to an antagonism that should not exist in the church. Perhaps I'm an old fuddy duddy.



Lawrence, I had the same thought when I saw the opening post, but I didn't say anything because I figured there was some sort of insider meaning I knew nothing about (which is usual for me). In my RB circles I encounter nothing but respect and admiration for the confessional presbyterians.

I'm glad Bob could make it all clear.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 13, 2011)

kodos said:


> I believe only the Roman Church can make you a Sith Lord. The closest you can get as a Presbyterian is to become a member of a commission of some sort
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes this picture shows that you must be Catholic to become a Sith Lord. 

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/mediaFiles/picture/538323/718433.jpg


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## Herald (Jul 13, 2011)

BobVigneault said:


> View attachment 2128
> 
> Lawrence, I think this picture explains the whole Baptist, Presbyterian and Dark Side controversy.



Au contraire, mon ami. In this picture we have the dark lord of the Sith pouring what appears to be purified water from a Brita water filter into a contaminated bottle, all while standing in a shallow, rapidly moving stream. The stream represents the masses. The Sith lord is representative of the enemy who prowls around as a roaring lion seeking someone to devour (actually, in the Greek the word for lion means "Sith". And who is the most famous Sith of all time? Well, George Lucas provides the answer to that question). As to the water in the Brita; the water are those who have trusted in their pious living as means of purification. As to the dark lord of the Sith pouring this _supposed _purified water into the contaminated bottle, this reveals their true nature; corrupt and unpurified.

So you see, the picture makes perfect sense.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jul 13, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Double tuition at SEBTS is still cheaper than regular tuition at Westminster or RTS. Seriously though, may God bless you on your journey, and now you can have that beer
> ...



Yes, RTS-$405 per credit hour, WTS- $430 per credit hour, SEBTS- $365 per credit hour for non-SBC


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jul 13, 2011)

BobVigneault said:


> View attachment 2128
> 
> Lawrence, I think this picture explains the whole Baptist, Presbyterian and Dark Side controversy.



Darth Vader getting water for baptism.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 13, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > Bill The Baptist said:
> ...



I did not realize SEBTS was so much cheaper that SWBTS. Tuition is 504 per at Southwestern here in Houston. This is one of the reasons why I am happy to pay my 415 per at DTS.


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## BobVigneault (Jul 13, 2011)

Bill, I love you but your blatant eisogesis is clouding the perspicuous and plenary meaning of the picture. A picture is worth a thousand words and your paragraph is probably worth a half pence on ebay.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jul 13, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Chaplainintraining said:
> ...



Right now, SEBTS is $184 per credit hour for SBC students, however that will be increasing to $204 in the fall. I think the non-SBC rate will be going to $410. Still not that bad.


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## Herald (Jul 13, 2011)

BobVigneault said:


> Bill, I love you but your blatant eisogesis is clouding the perspicuous and plenary meaning of the picture. A picture is worth a thousand words and your paragraph is probably worth a half pence on ebay.



Bob, a half pence found is a half pence earned. Thanks for the compliment.


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## Marrow Man (Jul 13, 2011)

kodos said:


> I believe only the Roman Church can make you a Sith Lord. The closest you can get as a Presbyterian is to become a member of a commission of some sort
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good point. I am actually on Synod's Executive Board right now, so that's about as close as it gets. But I still don't have the telepathic choking skill yet. Think of how more quickly session meeting would go after a demonstration like this:

[video=youtube;6p4T7_XI7WM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6p4T7_XI7WM[/video]


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## Herald (Jul 13, 2011)

Tim, you're still working on that skill? It comes naturally to me. But then again, I'm from Jersey.


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## Marrow Man (Jul 13, 2011)

Herald said:


> Tim, you're still working on that skill? It comes naturally to me. But then again, I'm from Jersey.



I heard you can choke just by breathing the air.


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## Andres (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm no expert, but I believe this thread has gone


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 13, 2011)

This thread is on-topic (said as I wave my hand in front of your face).


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## Herald (Jul 13, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > Tim, you're still working on that skill? It comes naturally to me. But then again, I'm from Jersey.
> ...



Not everyone can aspirate dioxin.


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## Andres (Jul 13, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> This thread is on-topic (said as I wave my hand in front of your face).



 This thread is on-topic.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 13, 2011)

Andres said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > This thread is on-topic (said as I wave my hand in front of your face).
> ...



Being Presbyterian is so awesome.


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## KMK (Jul 13, 2011)

Speaking of the Dark Side, have you seen Bob's new avatar?


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 13, 2011)

KMK said:


> Speaking of the Dark Side, have you seen Bob's new avatar?


Bob Sith Lord? more like Doc Emmett Brown...


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## Marrow Man (Jul 13, 2011)

Contra_Mundum said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > Speaking of the Dark Side, have you seen Bob's new avatar?
> ...



I thought that was supposed to be Ric Flair.


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## JonathanHunt (Jul 13, 2011)

I am deeply disturbed. Does being a Baptist mean I have to get my hand chopped off? Is that what this is all about? Only Presbyterians get to have two hands?


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 13, 2011)

Yes, but in exchange for our two hands, we develop breathing problems.


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## Gage Browning (Jul 13, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> I am deeply disturbed. Does being a Baptist mean I have to get my hand chopped off? Is that what this is all about? Only Presbyterians get to have two hands?



Rev. Hunt - If your right "hand" offends...you know what to do...it's just the proper thing to do in the process of sanctification...


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## ac7k (Jul 13, 2011)

I get the humor of it all... and I am a baptist (not SBC)... same denomination as John Piper... Baptist General Conf.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 13, 2011)

I have to say this is one of the most edifying, "I have changed Baptism," perspective Threads I have ever read. Thank You LORD!


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## Andres (Jul 13, 2011)

Randy, there's hope for us after all!


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jul 13, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Herald said:
> 
> 
> > Tim, you're still working on that skill? It comes naturally to me. But then again, I'm from Jersey.
> ...



ROFL! It's true. It's true.


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## JonathanHunt (Jul 13, 2011)

bjhgiylo;uo;h pi'asoihswPIJDPJ Voijafpojasfpojasfpjoasfpj'fpjwpj ipjpok[f[okf[kodhoap'jaf

(typing with my new stump)


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## Andres (Jul 13, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> bjhgiylo;uo;h pi'asoihswPIJDPJ Voijafpojasfpojasfpjoasfpj'fpjwpj ipjpok[f[okf[kodhoap'jaf
> 
> (typing with my new stump)


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## Herald (Jul 13, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> bjhgiylo;uo;h pi'asoihswPIJDPJ Voijafpojasfpojasfpjoasfpj'fpjwpj ipjpok[f[okf[kodhoap'jaf
> 
> (typing with my new stump)


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## Marrow Man (Jul 13, 2011)

Randy, I find your lack of use of a small font ... disturbing.


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## MarieP (Jul 13, 2011)

LawrenceU said:


> What I meant to say is that even as a Baptist I would not call Presbyterianism 'The Dark Side'. I think it speaks to an antagonism that should not exist in the church. Perhaps I'm an old fuddy duddy.



You, Sir Lawrence, are a fuddeous duddeous curmudgeous!


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## Andres (Jul 13, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Randy, I find your lack of use of a small font ... disturbing.



 this thread is great, but use him next time View attachment 2131


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 13, 2011)

Marrow Man said:


> Randy, I find your lack of use of a small font ... disturbing.



I was so excited. LOL.


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## Berean (Jul 13, 2011)

Randy, I love your avatar. It's one of your best pictures In my humble opinion. Very mellow and contemplative.


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## Gage Browning (Jul 13, 2011)

JonathanHunt said:


> bjhgiylo;uo;h pi'asoihswPIJDPJ Voijafpojasfpojasfpjoasfpj'fpjwpj ipjpok[f[okf[kodhoap'jaf
> 
> (typing with my new stump)


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## LawrenceU (Jul 13, 2011)

MarieP said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > What I meant to say is that even as a Baptist I would not call Presbyterianism 'The Dark Side'. I think it speaks to an antagonism that should not exist in the church. Perhaps I'm an old fuddy duddy.
> ...



If you only knew . . .


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## CalvinandHodges (Jul 14, 2011)

Hi:

To respond from another Sci-Fi epic: "We are the Paedo-Baptists. You will be assimilated. Life as you know it has ended. Resistance is futile." 

Blessings,

Rob


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## FCC (Jul 14, 2011)

Welcome to Presbyterianism T.A.G.! I made a similar crossing a decade ago! I would only warn those that say "I will never, never, never make that crossing" to beware! A reformed Baptist elder and I were sitting together and extolling one another that we would never cross over and a short 6 months later I found myself taken! My wife continually points that out to me!


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## MarieP (Jul 15, 2011)

He crossed the Thames!!!!!!!!!!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/Hdr_parliament.jpg


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## DAW (Jul 15, 2011)

I am curious. Were you Reformed before? Obviously as a new Presbyterian you will be supporting covenant (infant) baptism. Was it the presbyterian polity that won you over?

Did you ever consider that you could endorse completely Reformed theology without accepting presbyterian polity? Was historical Congregationalism an option, i.e. the heritage of John Owens and Jonathan Edwards?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 15, 2011)

DAW said:


> I am curious. Were you Reformed before? Obviously as a new Presbyterian you will be supporting covenant (infant) baptism.



I am Presbyterian and I haven't embraced infant baptism.

Wow, and I had such high hopes for this thread. LOL.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 15, 2011)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> DAW said:
> 
> 
> > I am curious. Were you Reformed before? Obviously as a new Presbyterian you will be supporting covenant (infant) baptism.
> ...



All in due time. All in due time.......


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 15, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> PuritanCovenanter said:
> 
> 
> > DAW said:
> ...



Sometimes hope is very blind indeed. Methinks I will just let this one sleep.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jul 15, 2011)

I don't know Randy. Wait until you meet the new committee that we've enlisted to "encourage" full subscription to the Westminster Standards. 

View attachment 2133


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## KMK (Jul 15, 2011)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> I don't know Randy. Wait until you meet the new committee that we've enlisted to "encourage" full subscription to the Westminster Standards.
> 
> View attachment 2133



Now THAT'S funny!


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## DAW (Jul 15, 2011)

I would question how one could be a Presbyterian and yet reject covenant (infant) baptism. I know that in the PCA a person could join the local church and yet be a credo-baptist. In that case, I would say that the individual is essentially a reformed baptist willing to accept presbyterian polity. A credo-baptist Presbyterian is historically oxymoronic.


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## Marrow Man (Jul 15, 2011)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> I don't know Randy. Wait until you meet the new committee that we've enlisted to "encourage" full subscription to the Westminster Standards.
> 
> View attachment 2133



This is why, practically speaking, Presbyterians must go with the lower quantity of water. The Daliks can handle sprinkling, but full immersion would destroy their circuitry.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 15, 2011)

FCC said:


> Welcome to Presbyterianism T.A.G.! I made a similar crossing a decade ago! I would only warn those that say "I will never, never, never make that crossing" to beware! A reformed Baptist elder and I were sitting together and extolling one another that we would never cross over and a short 6 months later *I found myself taken*! My wife continually points that out to me!



"Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left."


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 15, 2011)

DAW said:


> I would question how one could be a Presbyterian and yet reject covenant (infant) baptism. I know that in the PCA a person could join the local church and yet be a credo-baptist. In that case, I would say that the individual is essentially a reformed baptist willing to accept presbyterian polity. A credo-baptist Presbyterian is historically oxymoronic.



I am a member in good standing in my Church. I have been told I am more Reformed soteriologically than more recent theological trends in Presbyterianism. The only thing I take exception to in the Standards is infant baptism. I do not cause disunity in my Church as the WCF is the standard I am to uphold. My children are all confessionally baptized based upon their own cognizant profession of faith. If I am asked about baptism I refer congregates to the Elders. I do know of one other gentleman who is like me in my Church. He has been a member in good standing for some time also. I do not believe that Covenant Theology stands or falls on infant baptism. It doesn't. I actually believe I hold stronger to most of the principles of the Confession than a lot of Presbyterians do. But I could be mistaken. You can say I am an oxymoron or an anomaly. There are Presbyterians who do not make infant baptism an issue. Are you willing to claim that an whole denomination is not Presbyterian because they hold to this position?



> *6.*God has appointed besides the Word and Prayer the Sacraments of Baptism and the Lord's Supper.*6a.*Baptism -- The Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster, under Christ the Great King and Head of the Church, Realizing that bitter controversy raging around the mode and proper subjects of the ordinance of Christian baptism has divided the Body of Christ when that Body should have been united in Christian love and Holy Ghost power to stem the onslaughts and hell-inspired assaults of modernism, hereby affirms that each member of the Free Presbyterian Church shall have liberty to decide for himself which course to adopt on these controverted issues, each member giving due honor in love to the views held by differing brethren, but none espousing the error of baptismal regeneration.*6b.*The Lord's Supper -- The Lord's Supper has been appointed by our Lord for Remembrance of Him in His work as Saviour. Its purpose to the child of God is for strengthening, and putting a visible difference between the redeemed and the unregenerate. This Sacrament will be observed once each month in every Free Presbyterian Congregation, or more frequently as each local congregation shall decide.



Free Presbyterian Church - FPC Articles of Faith


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 15, 2011)

> I actually believe I hold stronger to most of the principles of the Confession than a lot of Presbyterians do. But I could be mistaken.



Not to brag or anything


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 15, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> > I actually believe I hold stronger to most of the principles of the Confession than a lot of Presbyterians do.
> 
> 
> 
> Not to brag or anything


Nope, It isn't about bragging. And it is just an opinion. After all we do live in America.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 15, 2011)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > > I actually believe I hold stronger to most of the principles of the Confession than a lot of Presbyterians do.
> ...



The Pharisees had a similar opinion.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 15, 2011)

Boliver, you left off part of my quote saying, "I could be mistaken." I don't appreciate being partially quoted.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jul 15, 2011)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Boliver, you left off part of my quote saying, "I could be mistaken." I don't appreciate being partially quoted.



I fixed the quote. Your disclaimer at the end does not change the fact that this statement comes off extremely egotistical.


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## py3ak (Jul 15, 2011)

[Moderator]
Apparently we can't have a nice baptism thread yet. You jinxed us with your meta comment Randy!

Boliver, if Randy's statement sounds egotistical, how do you think your Pharisee remark sounds?

After that thought experiment, try this one. How many members of Presbyterian churches know what an exception to the Confession is? How many know where they would take one? How many would understand all the points where their current thinking would require them to take exception to the Confession? Randy knows and loves the Westminster Standards; that is not boasting, that is a plain statement of fact.[/Moderator]


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