# Lets Role Play



## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Mar 10, 2005)

You were born and raised Southern Baptist. One day you feel a "calling" toward the youth ministry. So you talk with your pastor and he recommends A Southern Baptist Bible College. You love and trust your pastor to death and take his recommendation very seriously. After visiting the school you are transfixed on going there as you believe God has told you this is your school. As you join you come across the doctrine of Calvinism. After wrestling and praying you become sold that this doctrine is truth. This doctrine eventually leads you into the path of reformed theology. As you begin to study and agree to the reformed beliefs you find your old views crumbling in front of you. You realize that your church reering experience was watered down and lazy in theology, ecumenical, and irreverent. What is worse is that your in a youth program that is exactly that! After observing the results of this program, by seeing the negative affects the graduates have on the churches they are staffed in, you begin to speak out against it. You believe something must be done to for God\'s sake and for the potential deception of many brothers and sisters. Due to the weak standards of the youth program, you leave it and attempt to get a degree in Biblical Studies. 

Now, you have a blogring/online journal. You use it to rant thoughts for your friends and anyone else in public to read. One day you decide to make a post about the lacking state of the Youth Program. Your write out your concerned opinion about how the program is lacking and needs to change. 

A couple weeks later, out of nowhere you get a message to go to the deans office. The dean reveals that he has been given printed paper of this post and claims that it was inappropriate to write anything negative about the university. He tells you that you have basically two options. 1.) You can refute your statements and sign a sheet saying so, and take the punishment of being expelled for a week. or 2.) you must withdraw. You ask for 24 hours to consider it. The dean refuses your request and forces you to make a decision. To sign the sheet would mean to adhere to what you believe to be impurities and destruction in the Church. Signing the sheet would violate your conscious and convictions. Therefore you can only go with the second option. By being forced to withdrawal. The consequences of your withdrawal is that you lose several thousand dollars that you worked hard for, and a hiatus in your graduation 
progress. 

What do you do now?

[edited for public view]

[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## Scott Bushey (Mar 10, 2005)

I leave.


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## JonathanHunt (Mar 10, 2005)

I leave too!

Putting the Lord first, trusting in Him - He can make up for all the loss. Honour Him.

JH


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## ReformedWretch (Mar 10, 2005)

Yes, at this point you're pretty much forced to leave. They drew the line in the sand.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 10, 2005)

I'd leave... but first I'd tell him that you were going to report all of this on that same blog!


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## LadyFlynt (Mar 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> I'd leave... but first I'd tell him that you were going to report all of this on that same blog!



 (payback or reporting?)


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## Michael (Mar 10, 2005)

What exactly would you gain by staying? Money?


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## tdowns (Mar 10, 2005)

*That\'s a Top Gun move brother!*

I'm lifting you up in prayers,

TD


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Mar 10, 2005)

Ok

Well this situtaion situation has occured as of two days ago to a friend of mine. The entire thing has me in disgust. I'm keeping up with it. 

[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 10, 2005)

Then why doesn't your friend appeal?

[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## turmeric (Mar 10, 2005)

If this situation is exactly as you described it, whatever process the college has for its own accountability should be used to the fullest extent necessary.

PS. In posting a blog, one should avoid slander, not using actual names unless the people are clearly teaching RANK HERESY, i.e. occultism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism, Word/Faith, etc. Arminianism doesn't really rate here, In my humble opinion, we should feel free to discuss it but the discussion should be general, or use aliases to protect the guilty:bigsmile:. This should be done out of charity. However, if all the blogger said is "this college is teaching Arminianism" either it is or isn't, that's no huge accusation.

[edited to remove a quote and thus follow the good advise given in this post!]

[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Mar 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> Then why doesn't your friend appeal?



He is

[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## RamistThomist (Mar 10, 2005)

I agree with Meg: While your friend may be Luther Redivivus, many otherwise good, perhaps even in the right (this analogy will break down in a second), die upon blogger hill--Rod Schapfler for one. I go with the general consensus on the board, but you wisdom in blogging.



[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 10, 2005)

Often times people post (or say!) things that from their perspective - and perhaps even the perspective of those who agree with them - are just stated as statements of "truth" or "conviction" and don't seem at all inflammatory.
But how would you perceive it if someone came along and basically said that you were theologically inept and unbiblical? Especially when you're saying it to people who strive to be theologically accurate and biblical!



[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 10, 2005)

But is a personal insult grounds for dismissal from a university ?

[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## ABondSlaveofChristJesus (Mar 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by OS_X_
> But is a personal insult grounds for dismissal from a university ?



Of course not. If I was the Dean and presented evidence of a person believing and claiming a program to be lacking, I would consider it a bittersweet moment. Bitter because someone see's the program as lacking and sweet as getting the opportunity to see what is lacking, discern whether or not he has a point, and change it. If I disagree with him on his point do I kick him out because he insulted the program? NEVER! People have a right to their opinion and if the school is bad enough he will just leave. Very negative things are constantly said and written that are inaccurate toward Christianity, Protestants, Presbyterianisms, etc. Is kicking someone out because they provide constructive criticism going to change that? Nope, it will only do the opposite in a much more drastic way. Do we lead by emotion or rationality? I have looked at both sides pretty clearly now. 

He was charged for "conduct unfitting of a christian minister," ...



[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## Scott Bushey (Mar 10, 2005)

Grace on both parts could solve the issue. I'm with Ben, I need more information. 

Maybe the gentleman should count his blessings.........


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## turmeric (Mar 10, 2005)

This appears to me to be a major philosophic disagreement about what ministry and evangelism are. I understand that it's difficult when you are enrolled in a program and there's money & academic reputation involved, but it looks to me like your friend came to Evanjellyfish Bible College as a young evanjellyfish, then evolved into another kind of critter entirely, one whose natural opponent is the evanjellyfish. (Please, everyone, take this in the humorous way it was intended!) I had a similar thing happen at the church I attended for 3 years. It was a nice Dispie church connected to a local Bible college. Wonderful people, I still talk to some ot them. However, they were struck by the Saddleback blight, and either were not amenable to discussion, or kept on with circular arguments like "kids speak a new language nowadays, they don't understand proper English, we're just doing what they do on the mission-field" or " Well, David danced before the Lord..." or some such. I finally left. Quietly. There was no point doing anything else. They weren't listening and I'm not supposed to be teaching guys anyway. Their minds were simply closed. There's a lot of that going around nowadays. I don't know if they were just on a carnal trip, or Satan was fogging things up, or what. Even the elders, who were solid Amyraldists of the old school, didn't feel it was loving to object. It was like a conspiracy.
I come to church to worship God and be changed, not to get puffed up by knowing more than the pastor.

Anyway, it's too bad your friend didn't realize this was happening in time to withdraw before anyone got upset. That way, he would have clearly had the moral high ground.
This is really ugly, we should all pray for peace & brotherly love in this situation. I'm reminded of Paul & Barnabas splitting into two mission teams instead of one over a staffing problem...it all worked out in the end.


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## jatkins_1 (Mar 11, 2005)

The more and more that I think about this situation, the more disgusted I become. By the way I am the student that Tim was refering to in this situation. 

I am grateful for you prayers and pray that the Lord will be glorified and his elect be edified through this.
In Christ,
Jake Atkins


[Edited on 3-19-05 by pastorway]


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## pastorway (Mar 16, 2005)

There is not enough information to make a judgment about this. I will say that it strikes me as wrong to go to a college (or any school) and to openly in public confront problems without working through proper channels for discussions that have a better chance of affecting change. It can be construed as slander, being mean spirited and contentious. Divisiness is dangerous no matter the cause. It quickly can get out of hand and take on a life of its own.

When I was in college, we had to deal with a situation where a few people became outspoken regarding a few matters of doctrine and practice. Whether they were right or wrong I do not even remember. What I remember is the division that was caused in the student body by the way in which they went about voicing their complaint. They printed up a fake copy of the student newspaper with an expose on the front page. It took weeks to calm things down after that. In the end it was all resolved, but it all could have been avoided if the people with a complaint had used a little discretion and wisdom.

To be sure in this case, no matter the issue at hand, there are much better ways to deal with these kinds of issues than posting on the internet! And by the way, posting anything on a blog really cannot be compared to what Luther did. 

It is my opinion that blogs are the scourge of the church today. Everybody believes that the world is worthy of their up to the minute opinion on any/everything.

Here is some Scriptural insight for frequent bloggers:

*Proverbs 10*
19In the multitude of words sin is not lacking, but he who restrains his lips is wise. 

(perhaps we should substitute "he who restrains his fingers on the keyboard) 

*Proverbs 17*
28Even a fool is counted wise when he holds his peace; when he shuts his lips, he is considered perceptive. 

*Proverbs 29*
11A fool vents all his feelings,but a wise man holds them back. 

20Do you see a man hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him. 

*Psalm 12*
1 Help, LORD, for the godly man ceases! 
For the faithful disappear from among the sons of men. 
2They speak idly everyone with his neighbor; 
With flattering lips and a double heart they speak. 
3May the LORD cut off all flattering lips, 
And the tongue that speaks proud things

*Ecclesiastes 3*
A time to keep silence, And a time to speak; 

*Matthew 12*
36But I say to you that for every idle word men may speak, they will give account of it in the day of judgment.

*Ephesians 4*
25Therefore, putting away lying, "Let each one of you speak truth with his neighbor," for we are members of one another. 

*Titus 3*
1 Remind them to be subject to rulers and authorities, to obey, to be ready for every good work, 2to speak evil of no one, to be peaceable, gentle, showing all humility to all men.

*James 1*
19So then, my beloved brethren, let every man be swift to hear, slow to speak, slow to wrath; 20for the wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of God. 

Phillip

[Edited on 3-16-05 by pastorway]


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## pastorway (Mar 19, 2005)

NOTE: This thread has been extensively edited to remove references to specific people and schools involved in this conflict. It simply is not proper to take these kinds of matters to a public forum. There are consequences tied to the words we use and the way we say them when we have disagreements.

That said, the internet is not the place to air our grievances with people. The Scripture is clear that if we are wronged we are to go to that person in private before proceeding through the church (not the internet) for resolution between believers.

The admins and moderators of the Puritan Board are praying that this situation will be resolved with grace and love, and that all parties involved will be reconciled.

For the admins,
Phillip Way


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