# Karl Barth on Double Predestination



## N. Eshelman (Apr 29, 2008)

Could some of the Barthian scholars explain his view of double predestination to me? 

I know that he said that both predestination and reprobation are found in Christ and rejects the idea of election in the Council of Peace. 

Is that right? 

Can you also give me links to read on this as well as citations??

Confused in Grand Rapids,


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## DMcFadden (Apr 29, 2008)

Cf. "The Election of Jesus Christ" 2/2, section 33.
[esp. KD, p. 101; CD, p. 94].



> Starting from Jn. 1:1f., we have laid down and developed two statements concerning the election of Jesus Christ. The first is that Jesus Christ is the electing God. This statement answers the question of the Subject of the eternal election of grace. And the second is that Jesus Christ is elected man. This statement answers the question of the object of the eternal election of grace. Strictly speaking, the whole dogma of predestination is contained in these two statements. Everything else that we have to say about it must consist in the development and application of what is said in these two statements taken together. The statements belong together in a unity which is indissoluble, for both of them speak of the one Jesus Christ, and God and man in Jesus Christ are both Elector and Elect, belonging together in a relationship which cannot be broken and the perfection of which can never be exhausted. In the beginning with God was this One, Jesus Christ. And that is predestination. All that this concept contains and comprehends is to be found originally in Him and must be understood in relation to Him. But already we have gone far enough from the traditional paths to make necessary a most careful explanation of the necessity and scope of the christological basis and startingpoint for the doctrine as it is here expounded.
> Barth, K., Bromiley, G. W., & Torrance, T. F. (2004). Church dogmatics, Volume II: The doctrine of God, Part 2. Translation of Die kirchliche Dogmatik.; Each pt. also has special t.p.; Includes indexes. (145). Edinburgh: T. & T. Clark.



Secondary sources:

*1. Curt Daniel*



> Barth on Election.
> A. Barth wrote, “The doctrine of election is the sum of the Gospel.” But he denied the
> fundamental distinctive of Calvinism: “There is no decretum absolutum [absolute decree]. There
> is no will of God distinct from the will of Jesus Christ.” Bart labels the historic Reformed doctrine
> ...



*2. Van Til*

Here is how Van Til explains Barth on election . . . 



> The latest and fullest discussion of the doctrines of election, ethics, and creation on the part of Barth are contained in:
> Die kirchliche Dogmatik. Zweiter Band, Zweiter Halbband. Zollikon-Zürich: Evangelischer Verlag A.G. 1942. X, 899. Sw. Fr. 37:00. Dritter Band, Erster Teil. Zollikon-Zurich: Evangelischer Verlag A.G. 1945. 7, 488. Sw. Fr. 24:00. Barth’s treatment of these subjects is discussed in this appendix.
> 
> The doctrine of election, we are told, contains the whole of the gospel in nuce.1 As such it may be summed up in two sentences. The first is, “Jesus Christ is the electing God.” From this any true statement of the doctrine of election must take its start. It is to be substituted for Calvin’s notion of an absolute decree. Scripture knows of no God in Himself4 and “there is no decretum absolutum.”
> ...


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## TimV (Apr 29, 2008)

Great work, DM, thanks.


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## Grymir (Apr 29, 2008)

Thanks DMcFadden! That's some good reading. (well, except the Barth stuff). Sigh, Jesus the electing God? Everytime I read Barth, I have to wonder how he got to be so well read. The Van til passage was well written, exposing what is wrong, and how his thought processes brought him to his conclusions. Thank you for the info.


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