# Scriptural Commands to pray for ALL the lost vs just the elect



## SinnerSavedByChrist (Jul 10, 2013)

Dear brethren,

I have been wrestling with this issue for a while: namely that of praying for unbelievers. *Please help me!! Please use the Scriptures with exegesis in reference to soteriological considerations of the Doctrines of Grace*. (pray for unbelievers... but only the elect will be saved? So pray for the elect to be saved??!?!) Thanks!!!


*1.* Do we pray: *"Father, amongst those who are around us and those we speak to, please grant repentance to those whom you have elected amongst them. Use us as your instruments and ambassadors as we speak to every single person we ever meet about Jesus Christ."* --- _this seems to be the way Jesus and the Apostles prayed. (Jesus: high priestly prayer only for the elect, + "You cannot come to me because my Father has not elected you".. Apostles: "As many as the Lord will call" ... "as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed".. "I have many people in this city".."That God *may* grant them repentance" _


or do we pray *"Father, save EVERY single person that I talk to because I know that you do not desire any to perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter). Since it is according to Your will that none should perish, then I know that you will save every single person I have asked for, since if we pray according to your will, You will accomplish it and more"* -- _this seems to be what George Mueller advocates, and the Ravenhill's/Arminians_



Then there are the two more verses that speak of praying for *all*? unbelievers that should be considered:

*1 Timothy 2:1* Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks be made for all men for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth...
(I have read that many interpret this verse with the primacy of John's gospel in mind, noting that only ever those whom the Father has given to Jesus will come to Him. Therefore, Paul is asking Timothy to pray for all _classes of people_, even the hated government authorities who massacre Christians.)

*Romans 10:1* "Brethren, my heart’s desire and prayer to God for (ethnic) Israel is that they may be saved"
(once again, some interpret this verse presupposing the primacy of John's gospel, such that Paul is only asking God to grant repentance to as many as He has called out of ethnic Israel... Ofcourse one could never dispute that Paul had a HEARTACHE for his brethren such that in Romans 9:3 he says "For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren"..)



*2.* To further complicate the issue, I have found in the scriptures more prayers for God to raise up evangelists and strengthen evangelists, than for us to pray for unbelievers in general. 
The Colossian/Ephesian/Acts 4:29 prayers of: *"Grant us boldness... Grant us words... Open doors..."* and also the gospel commands to pray for more labourers for the harvest. 


*3. * Also What about the reprobate? Do we pray for those who have come to an understanding of the gospel, but left the faith? The reformers discouraged praying for them according to *1 John 5:16 chiefly*, also consider Hebrews 6:4-7, Hebrews 10:26-39, Jeremiah 7:16,11:14,14:11, Mark 3:29/Luke 12:10 

Finally, there are the prayers of Jesus and Stephen in Luke 23 and Acts 6, in which they petition to God to "Forgive them their sin" or "do not hold this against them". Some comment that Jesus cannot contradict Himself when He moments ago prayed the high priestly prayer _only for His own_. So why would Jesus now ask God to forgive the sins of the those who have sinned the sin unto death?


EDIT: *For clarity, my chief question is this: "How and who do we pray for to be saved?"*
EDIT: *Also, should we ask God to "elect more" people unto salvation? That may sound like a weird prayer, but unless God elects them, then they will never repent because men hate God!!*


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## Jack K (Jul 10, 2013)

What do you desire? Is there a person you spoke with or one you know whom you hope will come to faith? Then plead with your Father to extend his saving mercy to that person. Rather than being too worried about properly understand the mystery of election and how it fits in with your prayers, pray as Jesus taught us—like a child before his Father, simply asking in faith for what you want. I see no reason why the prayer attitudes described in Luke 11 would not apply to the work of an evangelist, especially given how that passage comes on the heels of the sending in chapter 10.


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## Andres (Jul 10, 2013)

From the WLC 183:



> Q. 183. For whom are we to pray?
> A. We are to pray for the whole church of Christ upon earth; for magistrates, and ministers; for ourselves, our brethren, yea, our enemies; and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter; but not for the dead, nor for those that are known to have sinned the sin unto death.



As far as salvation goes, I would suggest praying for anyone who does not bear the marks that they are regenerate. The job of detemining who is/isn't or who may be/may not be elect is not yours. Obviously, God will only save his elect, but it's not like if you pray for someone and they end up not being elect, you somehow messed up or prayed incorrectly. 

I do think that this prayer below is a bit confusing though because it seems like your reference to 2 Peter 3:9 is off. It has a universalistic feel to it so perhaps that is where the confusion stems. 
"Father, save EVERY single person that I talk to because I know that you do not desire any to perish but that all should come to repentance (2 Peter). Since it is according to Your will that none should perish, then I know that you will save every single person I have asked for, since if we pray according to your will, You will accomplish it and more"


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## Pergamum (Jul 10, 2013)

If God just showed me who the elect were, I would only pray for them....but since I don't know, I pray for everyone.


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## earl40 (Jul 10, 2013)

Pergamum said:


> If God just showed me who the elect were, I would only pray for them....but since I don't know, I pray for everyone.



I pray for everyone knowing that common grace will lessen the degree in hell for those who are not elect. Of course I do not know who they are, but I know all those I pray for is for their benefit and His glory...whether they end up in heaven or hell.

In other words, pray for EVERYBODY.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 10, 2013)

_The secret things belong unto the Lord our God.
Deuteronomy 29:29

I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, 
intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men. 
I Timothy 2:1_​
I Hope that helps.


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## SinnerSavedByChrist (Jul 12, 2013)

Thank you for all your encouragements. Indeed I should learn to be more child-like before the most Good and kindly Father who is in heaven. And indeed, the secret things belong to YHWH. But we are called to pray for all unbelievers, so I will pray in faith that God will answer my prayers according to His good pleasure (and His good pleasure IS GOOD). 



***And I just found (as in, God just revealed through His Holy Spirit in me) something quite astounding. 

*Why does God seem to *make* us travail in prayer, as we plead for unbelievers to be saved? Why doesn't he just save them if according to 2 Peter, God doesn't want any of them to perish anyway?* - _because God loves to use weak, pitiful, sinful men, regenerated by a Great and merciful God. He in His good pleasure, chooses to use fallible man, both his preaching and his prayers, to advance the kingdom of God on earth. And the mystery of it all is that God in His total sovereignty, can even use fallible man, directed by His Holy Spirit, to accomplish His infallible and unthwartable purposes. Amen_


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## SinnerSavedByChrist (Jul 13, 2013)

au5t1n said:


> I pray for a fellow church member to recover fully from cancer. There is an implied (usually) or stated (sometimes) "if it be thy will" attached. We cannot pray only for things that are actually in God's secret will because we are not privy to God's secret will. Therefore, in all our prayers, we offer our _desires_ to God for things agreeable to his revealed will (WSC 98), understanding that we do not know the secret will of the LORD so as to know what will be answered in the way we asked it and what will be answered in a different way.
> 
> You may pray for the conversion of a particular person, understanding that only God knows whether he actually has determined to do so. I do not think, however, that it makes sense to pray that every last individual would be saved because God has revealed enough about election for you to know that this, at least, is contrary to his decree.


Yes, thank you Austin for the WCF reminder. But it is interesting that *although* it *seems* an impossibility to us that 100% of a particular town or city could be converted (thus elected). But the Ravenhills, the Muellers and the "revivalist" type saints of the past have always surmised that *God never says in any part of His scripture that He could not at this very moment save an entire town, an entire city or an entire nation. But what God has told us is that the fault is with us for our sloth in prayer, hypocrisy in not preaching the gospel everywhere and inertia in taking the gospel to the ends of the world. The harvest is plenty, but where are the workers?* Cries the Lord.


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## Andres (Jul 13, 2013)

SinnerSavedByChrist said:


> But what God has told us is that the fault is with us for our sloth in prayer, hypocrisy in not preaching the gospel everywhere and inertia in taking the gospel to the ends of the world.



Is this a quotation from someone specific? Unless I am misunderstanding it, the quotation states that people will perish and be damned because of what humans failed to do. This implies that somehow God's plans are thwarted by man - He wants to save some people, but because we are slothful, they are lost. While I certainly am in favor of encouraging Christians to pray, and support the preaching of the gospel everywhere, I don't think statements like these are helpful because they are simply not theologically correct.


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