# Hyper Calvanist??



## Shane (Mar 8, 2005)

I read recently that John Gill was a hyper calvanist?

Could somone enlighten me as to what a hyper calvanist is? I would also like to know if this is true of John Gill. I have his commentaty on Esword and would like to know what you thoughts are on it.


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## JonathanHunt (Mar 8, 2005)

Shane

As simply as I can put it (and I am a simple soul who stands open to correction!) a hyper-calvinist takes the sovereignty of God to such an extreme as to absolve himself of any duty to proclaim the good news of the gospel to the lost. Indeed he may even regard it as sin to 'offer the gospel' to the non-elect. As John Ryland said to William Carey, who wanted to preach the gospel to those in India (inexact quote) 'When God wants to save the heathen, he will do it without your (our?) help'.

I have heard it said of John Gill that he was a hyper-calvinistic calvinist, rather than a straight hyper-calvinist. This might be splitting hairs. He would certainly have been uncomfortable with some of the expressions of CH Spurgeon, one of his successors. That said, CHS was never backwards in coming forwards to commend Gill's written works. Reading Gill will not harm you, but profit you. He had his covenant theology correct after all 

One of the Arminian's biggest criticisms of calvinism is that it tends to hyper-calvinism and lack of christian service and evangelistic fervour. It can do this indeed. I know many many churches where this is so, and they are dying, shrinking, lifeless places.

[ rant ]
I have often said that I would rather serve the Lord in an Arminian church than not serve Him at all in a hyper-calvinistic church. I cannot stand hyper-calvinists. They are the scourge of the reformed church. From cover to cover of God's word, He is sovereign, BUT he uses human instruments to do his work. We must always be ready to be His instruments, always seeking new ways to serve Him (within scriptural mandate), always proclaiming the hope that is in us, and never rest until Glory! [ / rant ]

[Edited on 3-8-2005 by JonathanHunt]


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## JonathanHunt (Mar 8, 2005)

Jenson



> We must be certain before making remarks like "I know many many churches where this is so, and they are dying, shrinking, lifeless places." that they are dying, shrinking and lifeless because of hyper-calvinism. I would say that a big, lively, active church can just be as "dead" as well, in a spiritual sense.



Any big, active, lively churches in mind? Regarding the small churches, I didn't say it was hyper-calvinism killing them, I said that it was lack of evangelism and christian service - these are often the children of hyper-calvinism. I have an ever-broadening experience of the 'reformed' scene here in the UK and it is a very sad scene indeed. If you think that the majority of reformed churches (not perhaps in terms of numbers of members but in terms of numbers of churches) are evangelistic and outward looking, then I must respectfully disagree with you.



> How many Hyper-Calvinistic churches have you visited to make such claims?



Enough. What do you want me to do, name them all? I have a broader experience than perhaps you imagine - perhaps you think I spent all my time only at the Tab and now at my current church? Don't forget that I have friends in many other churches and contacts on the pastoral staff of many others. I am quite confident of what I am saying. You won't read of the churches I am thinking of in evangelical times or anything - they are so small, so unknown, so struggling, and yet, still, so hyper-calvinistic!



> do you know that they "take the sovereignty of God to such an extreme as to absolve himself of any duty to proclaim the good news of the gospel to the lost."?



I was trying to give a working definition to brother Shane. I left myself open to correction. You have not offered any alternative definition. I didn't apply the definition to any and every 'hyper-calvinistic' church I know of. Often the hyper-calvinism of calvinists is unsaid and unrealised - but it is like a subtle dose of sleeping-pills slipped into the life of the church.



> "I cannot stand hyper-calvinists." - Some are as Christian as you are, if God can stand them, why can't you?



No, you're wrong. I'm sure they ALL are as much a christian as I am! 

Perhaps it would be better to say that I cannot stand hyper-calvinISM, eh?

Jenson, I'll try and talk to you next time we meet and explain the battles I have been fighting ever since I left the Tab. Maybe you will understand a little better why I am so adamant, and maybe you will see that I am not parroting what other people say (Peter Masters for example?) but that I am speaking from simple personal experience.

Thank you for your reply - let me clarify my position:

I cannot stand hyper-calvinISM

I cannot stand hyper-calvinISM

I cannot stand hyper-calvinISM



Jonathan



[Edited on 3-8-2005 by JonathanHunt]


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## JonathanHunt (Mar 8, 2005)

You can always U2U or email me, Jenson. I'd be interested to hear what you have to say.

Jonathan


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## Shane (Mar 8, 2005)

Thanks for the info, it has clarified my question. I certainly believe we have a job to witness as christians, after all we never saw the apostles sit back and say oh well the chosen will find us.

I believe somone has this quote from John Owen in his signature on this board and I think it applies quite well.

"God hath work to do in this world; and to desert it because of its difficulties and entanglements, is to cast off His authority. It is not enough that we be just, that we be righteous, and walk with God in holiness; but we must also serve our generation, as David did before he fell asleep. God hath a work to do; and not to help Him is to oppose Him." (John Owen, IX.171)


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## JonathanHunt (Mar 8, 2005)

Amen!

That's Fred's quote. I used it in a sermon in the summer just gone.

JH


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## doulosChristou (Mar 8, 2005)

Shane,

Both Phil Johnson's article and Matt's brief critique of hyper-calvinism give a good definition:

http://www.apuritansmind.com/PuritanWorship/McMahonABriefCritiqueOfHyper-Calvinism.htm

http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/hypercal.htm


Yes, Gill was hyper. Consider this quote from Gill's chapter on conversion from his BOD: 

"But it may be said, if conversion is not in the power and will of men, to what purpose are such exhortations as these; "Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; turn yourselves, and live ye?" and again, "Repent ye therefore, and be converted?" Ezekiel 18:30, 32 and Acts 3:19 to which it may be replied, That these passages have no respect to spiritual and internal conversion, but to an external reformation of life and manners. In the first instance the Jews were then in a state of captivity, which was a kind of death, as sometimes sore afflictions are said to be (2 Cor. 1:10), and into which they were brought through their sins: now the Lord declares, that he took no pleasure in this their uncomfortable state and condition; it was more desirable to him, and therefore he exhorts them to it, to reform from their evil practices; then they would be returned from their captivity, and live comfortably in their own land, as they had formerly done. But what has this to do with the spiritual and internal conversion of a sinner unto God? with respect to the latter case, the Jews were threatened with the destruction of their city and nation, for their rejection of Jesus the Messiah, and other sins they were guilty of; and now the apostle advises those to whom he directs his discourse, to relinquish their wrong notions of Christ, and repent of their ill usage of him and his followers, and of their other sins, in an external way, that so they might escape the calamities coming upon their nation and people. But supposing these, and such like exhortations, respected internal conversion of the heart to God; such exhortations may be only designed to show men the necessity of such conversion in order to salvation; as our Lord said, "Except ye be converted, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven"; and when men are convinced of this, they will soon be sensible of their impotence to convert themselves, and will pray, as Ephraim did "Turn thou me, and I shall be turned", immediately and effectually;"

The following is from his chapter on effectual calling:

"this external call may be considered, as a call of sinners in a state of nature and unregeneracy; but then it is not a call to them to regenerate and convert themselves, of which there is no instance; and which is the pure work of the Spirit of God: nor to make their peace with God, which they cannot make by anything they can do; and which is only made by the blood of Christ: nor to get an interest in Christ, which is not got, but given: nor to the exercise of evangelical grace, which they have not, and therefore can never exercise: nor to any spiritual vital acts, which they are incapable of, being natural men, and dead in trespasses and sins. Nor is the gospel ministry an offer of Christ, and of his grace and salvation by him, which are not in the power of the ministers of it to give, nor of carnal men to receive; the gospel is not an offer, but a preaching of Christ crucified, a proclamation of the unsearchable riches of his grace, of peace, pardon, righteousness, and life, and salvation by him. Yet there is something in which the ministry of the word, and the call by it, have to do with unregenerate sinners: they may be, and should be called upon, to perform the natural duties of religion; to a natural faith, to give credit to divine revelation, to believe the external report of the gospel, which not to do, is the sin of the deists; to repent of sin committed, which even the light of nature dictates; and God, in his word, commands all men everywhere to repent: to pray to God for forgiveness, as Simon Magus was directed by the apostle: and to pray to God for daily mercies that are needed, is a natural and moral duty; as well as to give him praise, and return thanks for mercies received, which all men that have breath are under obligation to do. They may, and should be called upon to attend the outward means of grace, and to make use of them; to read the Holy Scriptures, which have been the means of the conversion of some; to hear the word, and wait on the ministry of it, which may be blessed unto them, for the effectual calling of them. And it is a part of the ministry of the word to lay before men their fallen, miserable, lost, and undone estate by nature; to open to them the nature of sin, its pollution and guilt, and the sad consequences of it; to inform them of their incapacity to make atonement for it; and of their impotence and inability to do what is spiritually good; and of the insufficiency of their own righteousness to justify them in the sight of God: and they are to be made acquainted, that salvation is alone by Christ, and not other ways; and the fullness, freeness, and suitableness of this salvation, are to be preached before them; and the whole to be left to the Spirit of God, to make application of it as he shall think fit."

Several things are to be noted: 

1. Gill has a very hard time with universal exhortations to faith and repentance, because, in his mind this would imply free will and deny total depravity. This is the essence of hyper-calvinism, and it is explicitly carried on total in the creed of the Gospel Standard Baptists in England.

2. Gill believes that the purpose of gospel ministers is only to lay before men their helpless and impotent state and their danger of dying without Christ. To this I agree; but this is not all there is to the gospel. We must not only lay out before men their danger and (objectively) the remedy, but we must also call men to embrace it.

3. In his chapter on effectual calling, Gill explicitly states that the Gospel is not an offer.

I don't think there can be any doubt after reading these quotes where Gill stood. In his commentary and sermons he may sometimes seem inconsistent with what he had written, and certainly his followers were all the more hyper than himself, but Gill never swerved from the above convictions. Read with caution.


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## pastorway (Mar 8, 2005)

Much of what Gill has left us is wonderful and valuable - but as Doulos stated, read with caution. In some works he seems to contradict the quotes given above, but even Spurgeon referred to Gill's theology as "high-Calvinism", which was what hyper-Calvinism was called in his day. And yet Spurgeon did revere and recommend Gill to the church.

On a few areas he goes a bit too far, on others he is better than any other you will read. 

Gill is quite a bit away from the churches today that claim to follow in his footsteps. He would not recognize them were he here.

Phillip


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## Larry Hughes (Mar 8, 2005)

Shane,

In a thumbnail:

Hyper-Calvinism is not just about not evangelizing, though it does do that. That is a gross understatement of it damaging effects.

Hyper-Calvinism and the things that lead to it place too much emphasis on the unknown eternal hidden will of God rather than His revealed will. It pretends that one can read the heart. It and the things that encourage it tend to send people looking for their election and regeneration rather than looking/trusting in Christ alone. It emphasizes the eternal over the temporal. It encourages introspection into election/regeneration. Thus it undermines assurance that Christ actually died for one and thus ultimately undermines faith altogether. It forces the believer to believe in regeneration and election rather than Christ.

Two primary movements from which this arose strongly, though certainly not limited to it, were the Particular Baptists of English origin and Dutch-American Reformed groups.

In a nutshell,

Larry


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## The Lamb (Mar 17, 2005)

1729 Goat Yard Declaration of Faith 

A Declaration of the Faith and Practice of the Church of Christ at Horsely-down, under the Pastoral Care of Mr. John Gill, &c.


Having been enabled, through divine grace, to give up ourselves to the Lord, and likewise to one another by the will of God; we account it a duty incumbent upon us to make a declaration of our faith and practice, to the honour of Christ, and the glory of his name; knowing, that as with the heart man believeth unto righteousness, so with the mouth confession is made unto salvation--our declaration is as follows: 

I. We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testament are the word of God, and the only rule of faith and practice. 

II. We believe that there is but one only living and true God; that there are three Persons in the Godhead, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost, who are equal in nature, power, and glory; and that the Son and the Holy Ghost are as truly and as properly God as the Father. 

III. We believe that, before the world began, God did elect a certain number of men unto everlasting salvation, whom he did predestinate to the adoption of children by Jesus Christ, of his own free grace, and according to the good pleasure of his will: and that, in pursuance of this gracious design, he did contrive and make a covenant of grace and peace with his Son Jesus Christ, on the behalf of those persons, wherein a Saviour was appointed, and all spiritual blessings provided for them; as also that their persons, with all their grace and glory, were put into the hands of Christ, and made his care and charge. 

IV. We believe that God created the first man, Adam, after his own image, and in his likeness; an upright, holy, and innocent creature, capable of serving and glorifying him; but, he sinning, all his posterity sinned in him, and came short of the glory of God: the guilt of whose sin is imputed, and a corrupt nature derived, to all his offspring, descending from him by ordinary and natural generation: that they are by their first birth carnal and unclean, averse to all that is good, uncapable of doing any and prone to every sin; and are also by nature children of wrath, and under a sentence of condemnation, and so are subject not only to a corporal death, and involved in a moral one, commonly called spiritual, but are also liable to an eternal death, as considered in the first Adam, fallen and sinners; from all which there is no deliverance but by Christ, the second Adam. 

V. We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, being set up from everlasting as the Mediator of the new covenant, and he, having engaged to be the surety of his people, did, in the fulness of time, really assume human nature, and not before, neither in whole nor in part; his human soul, being a creature, existed not from eternity, but was created and formed in his body by him that forms the spirit of man within him, when that was conceived in the womb of the virgin; and so his human nature consists of a true body and a reasonable soul; both which, together, and at once, the Son of God assumed into union with his divine Person, when made of a woman, and not before; in which nature he really suffered and died as their substitute, in their room and stead, whereby he made all that satisfaction for their sins, which the law and justice of God could require, as well as made way for all those blessings, which are needful for them both for time and eternity. 

VI. We believe that that eternal redemption which Christ has obtained, by the shedding of his blood, is special and particular, that is to say, that it was only intentionally designed for the elect of God, and sheep of Christ, who only share the special and peculiar blessings of it. 

VII. We believe that the justification of God's elect is only by the righteousness of Christ imputed to them, without the consideration of any works of righteousness done by them; and that the full and free pardon of all their sins and transgressions, past, present, and to come, is only through the blood of Christ, according to the riches of his grace. 

VIII. We believe that the work of regeneration, conversion, sanctification, and faith, is not an act of man's free will and power, but of the mighty, efficacious, and irresistible grace of God. 

IX. We believe that all those who are chosen by the Father, redeemed by the Son, and sanctified by the Spirit, shall certainly and finally persevere, so that not one of them shall ever perish, but shall have everlasting life. 

X. We believe that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust; and that Christ will come a second time to judge both quick and dead, when he will take vengeance on the wicked, and introduce his own people into his kingdom and glory, where they shall be for ever with him. 

XI. We believe that Baptism and the Lord's Supper are ordinances of Christ, to be continued until his second coming; and that the former is absolutely requisite to the latter; that is to say, that those only are to be admitted into the communion of the church, and to participate of all ordinances in it, who upon profession of their faith, have been baptized by immersion, in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. 

XII. We also believe that singing of psalms, hymns, and spiritual songs, vocally, is an ordinance of the Gospel to be performed by believers; but that as to time, place, and manner, every one ought to be left to their liberty in using it. 

Now all, and each of these doctrines and ordinances, we look upon ourselves under the greatest obligations to embrace, maintain, and defend; believing it to be our duty to stand fast, in one spirit, with one mind, striving together for the faith of the Gospel. 

And whereas we are very sensible, that our conversation, both in the world and in the church, ought to be as becometh the Gospel of Christ, we judge it our incumbent duty to walk in wisdom towards them that are without, to exercise a conscience void of offence towards God and men, by living soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world. 

And as to our regards to each other, in our church-communion, we esteem it our duty to walk with each other in all humility and brotherly love: to watch over each other's conversation; to stir up one another to love and good works; not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as we have opportunity, to worship God according to his revealed will; and, when the case requires, to warn, rebuke, and admonish one another, according to the rules of the Gospel. 

Moreover, we think ourselves obliged to sympathize with each other, in all conditions, both inward and outward, which God, in his providence, may bring us into; as also to bear with one another's weaknesses, failings, and infirmities, and particularly to pray for one another, and that the Gospel and the ordinances thereof might be blessed to the edification and comfort of each other's souls, and for the gathering in of others to Christ, besides those who are already gathered--all which duties we desire to be found in the performance of, through the gracious assistance of the Holy Spirit, whilst we both admire and adore the grace which has given us a place and a name in God's house, better than that of sons and daughters.


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