# How can the early church fathers be so confused?



## Pergamum (Nov 2, 2012)

It is always alarming to me to read the church fathers, because they seemed to err on baptism and church government so much almost right out of the chutes. 


What are some explanations as to why they erred to quickly? 

When did the Church stop being the Church?


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 3, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> What are some explanations as to why they erred to quickly?


They were "babes," so far as the church went. Warfield, If I recall correctly, attributed the difference between the apostle's maturity and the first generation of Christians to inspiration and to the fact that they themselves had been with Jesus. They did not have developed doctrinal positions. They were living off the sincere milk of the Word, and their careless (and precious) use of the dear apostle's words only shows how easily did their "mother's language" come to their own mouths.

But they had not fought any battles yet. And then they fought major infections, life-and-death struggles for the truth. And they wisely let some things simply go, in order to conserve their energies. They didn't have to think they were mistaken on baptism, or were diverging from the truth on government; they simply had to lose "global" focus in wrestling matches over whether Christ was God or not. Lose the latter, and it doesn't matter if baptism is correct, or government is ideal.



Pergamum said:


> When did the Church stop being the Church?


Are you serious? I think you probably want to reformulate this question.


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## J. Dean (Nov 3, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> When did the Church stop being the Church?


Agree with Rev. Buchanan; theological disagreements aside, I see no evidence that the early church fathers ceased being Christian. I have questions about some of the theology taken up by the Lutherans I know, but I would not dare suggest they are not Christian, especially in the shared emphasis on _sola fide_ shared by both Calvin and Luther.


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## Peairtach (Nov 3, 2012)

They didn't have the benefits of a more developed theology and centuries of the Spirit's illumination of His own words:



> And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, [and] cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: (Eph 4:11-15)



The Apostle Paul also warned of error creeping in, in the early history of the NT Church:


> For the mystery of iniquity doth *already* work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. (II Thess 2:7)


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## Rufus (Nov 3, 2012)

J. Dean said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > When did the Church stop being the Church?
> ...



 They never ceased being the Church, the Church went up through the ages with times of greatness and times of weakness up until this very day. Some problems more Reformed/Baptist/etc. folks have with the Early Church Fathers is that they are quite used to their traditions interpretation (which may be the right interpretation) that they can't see the position somebody in the past (or now) was/is coming from.


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## MarieP (Nov 3, 2012)

Pergamum said:


> What are some explanations as to why they erred to quickly?



Same reason they had to have a Council at Jerusalem and Paul had to write a letter to the Galatians (with even Peter falling prey to the Judaizers for a time). Same reason there were those in Corinth who erred concerning the Resurrection. Same reason Christ had to speak as he did to the churches, rebuking tolerance of sin and heresy.


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## Rich Koster (Nov 3, 2012)

"What are some explanations as to why they erred to quickly?"

We were warned with tears and pleading, by Paul, that it would be that way, in Acts 20. We were warned "right out of the chute" that it would happen. Jesus affectionately calls us sheep. However, if you observe sheep, they can be quite stupid and easily run off. We are apt to also have some of these traits that go along with the illustration. How we deal with error and blatant attempts of take-over make us or break us.


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## bookslover (Nov 3, 2012)

There is also a tendency of some to put the early church fathers on a pedestal (as some also do to the Puritans). But, they were sinners just as we are, and were quite capable of making mistakes - just as we are. They were just regular guys who put their pants on one leg at a time (that is, if they'd had pants!). As with all groups of Christian thinkers and writers, eat the meat, but throw away the bones.


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