# Psychology studies



## Me Died Blue (Jul 15, 2006)

I'm approaching this issue in light of the assumption that people hold to an essentially nouthetic counseling view, and see much of the principles and practices taught and used by today's secular psychological schools and centers to undermine the sufficiency of Scripture, and other Scriptural principles (the self-esteem message is one example of something that does the latter).

Now, operating under that assumption - do you think it can be beneficial for someone to pursue an advanced degree in psychology, for the purpose of interaction with people and concepts as well as education in aspects of the field even if one does not agree with a significant portion of it? I am not asking this for myself, but for a believing friend.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 15, 2006)

I think it's helpful to be conversant in the different theories, etc. But is it even possible to get an advanced degree in this field and disagree with it in your work? In other words, having to toe the party line and tell those supervising this person's studies what they want to hear. I'm thinking it may not be possible at many institutions, or at least could be very difficult. But that is just speculation on my part.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 15, 2006)

Psychology may provide some insights into human behavior and communication. You just have to sift through the wheat and chaff. Remember your presupositionalism  Many of the conclusions they have are valid, though they got there through compromising their atheist/evolutionary worldview. 

[Edited on 7-15-2006 by Puritan Sailor]


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## turmeric (Jul 15, 2006)

When I tried to get a psych degree, most of it was about testing rats and trying to figure out why people choose one product over another, it didn't actually seem to be about counselling. I learned a lot about at what age moral development occurs, that sort of thing. Counselling was in a different department.


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## BuddyOfDavidClarkson (Jul 15, 2006)

I would not waste my time and money learning a system just to be conversant in their lingo. I'd spend time learning the scripture and studying it - that's the only solutions there are.



> _Originally posted by Me Died Blue_
> I'm approaching this issue in light of the assumption that people hold to an essentially nouthetic counseling view, and see much of the principles and practices taught and used by today's secular psychological schools and centers to undermine the sufficiency of Scripture, and other Scriptural principles (the self-esteem message is one example of something that does the latter).
> 
> Now, operating under that assumption - do you think it can be beneficial for someone to pursue an advanced degree in psychology, for the purpose of interaction with people and concepts as well as education in aspects of the field even if one does not agree with a significant portion of it? I am not asking this for myself, but for a believing friend.


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## py3ak (Jul 15, 2006)

I think it can be helpful. If a Christian has that secular in, he or she can be very helpful to brethren in the faith. Take one instance, that of home studies for adoption (I understand you don't need a psychology degree for that, but it's a similar situation). A lot of secular case workers would turn down wonderful Christian parents, because of differing presuppositions. A Christian would know better.
There are situations where fine Christians have to get some sort of a psych evaluation --it would be a big boost to them if someone who didn't think they were religious nuts could do that.
I think Christians should go into the areas that are dominated by secularism, such as medicine, psychology and law. They can be leaven, or at least a breath of fresh air.


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## Me Died Blue (Jul 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Puritan Sailor_
> Psychology may provide some insights into human behavior and communication. You just have to sift through the wheat and chaff. Remember your presupositionalism  Many of the conclusions they have are valid, though they got there through compromising their atheist/evolutionary worldview.



That makes consistent sense, Patrick (well, as long as one's not a Clarkian!). Thanks for pointing it out.


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## Me Died Blue (Jul 19, 2006)

Upon further reflection on my initial question, it seems in many ways analogous to the question of what value there is in studying philosophy or even biology. In both cases, there is a _very_ significant amount of what is taught that absolutely must be refuted and discarded by the Christian (such as evolution within biology, and literally any number of things within philosophy). Yet, due to the universally foundational and permeating nature of the Christian worldview in all reality and knowledge, the study of both under secular instructors can be very profitable in effectively analyzing and practicing parallel principles within the Christian worldview.

In a similar manner, though the purpose toward which secular psychology aims (namely, the understanding and bettering of human condition, thought, feeling and behavior) is necessarily and sufficiently answered at heart by the Word, it would seem that engaging with many of the thought processes and conclusions of psychologists can help us to understand and apply certain specific details of those biblical principles - just as much as biological study, in light of Scripture's telling us of the intricacy and amazing consistency of nature, can help us to more particularly understand the intricacies and amazing workings of that nature; or just as learning about the various philosophical works of history (some of the points of which are true, being consistent with Scripture, and some of which are not) can help us in seeing the foundational nature of the Christian worldview to the true parts, and help us in engaging with the false parts on any level.


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## MW (Jul 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Me Died Blue_
> Upon further reflection on my initial question, it seems in many ways analogous to the question of what value there is in studying philosophy or even biology. In both cases, there is a _very_ significant amount of what is taught that absolutely must be refuted and discarded by the Christian (such as evolution within biology, and literally any number of things within philosophy). Yet, due to the universally foundational and permeating nature of the Christian worldview in all reality and knowledge, the study of both under secular instructors can be very profitable in effectively analyzing and practicing parallel principles within the Christian worldview.
> 
> In a similar manner, though the purpose toward which secular psychology aims (namely, the understanding and bettering of human condition, thought, feeling and behavior) is necessarily and sufficiently answered at heart by the Word, it would seem that engaging with many of the thought processes and conclusions of psychologists can help us to understand and apply certain specific details of those biblical principles - just as much as biological study, in light of Scripture's telling us of the intricacy and amazing consistency of nature, can help us to more particularly understand the intricacies and amazing workings of that nature; or just as learning about the various philosophical works of history (some of the points of which are true, being consistent with Scripture, and some of which are not) can help us in seeing the foundational nature of the Christian worldview to the true parts, and help us in engaging with the false parts on any level.



Good insight. Philosophy is self-orientated, and many human sciences can be looked at from the same perspective. They are helpful to study so as to be able to reflect better on the human condition, and subsequently to maintain a consistent approach. However, if they seek to take the place of Christ, they are vain, as the apostle states in Col. 2.

I dislike reading that philosophy has nothing to do with theology, and then seeing various philosophical ideas taken for granted and contradicted over the course of a work. Lloyd Jones' Great Doctrines series is of this nature. The same applies to those who engage in pastoral work and generally deny the usefulness of psychology.

One of my sons studies psychology as a part of his health studies course. My wife studied it as a part of nursing many moons ago. It is serviceable insofar as it illustrates principles of evaluating human behaviour and response. Like all human sciences, once it assumes a salvific character it becomes dangerous.

Perhaps the great divide between humanist and biblical psychology is the idea that man is a passive rather than an active being, is acted upon rather than self-consciously acts, is a product of his environment rather than responsible for it.


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