# Romans 5: Death because all sinned or death because of Adam's sin?



## Der Pilger (Feb 4, 2010)

Hello all,

This has probably been brought up before, but my question is based on Romans 5:12-14. Verse 12 says, 

*Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned-- *

The last three words clearly indicate that death spread to all men because all sinned. This would seem to indicate that everyone dies for his own sin.

Then v. 13 reads:

*for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not imputed when there is no law. *

Now Paul says that sin is not imputed when there is no law. So you would think he is saying that during the period when there was no law--from Adam to Moses--there was no death. Sure, they sinned, but sin is not held to anyone's account when there is no law. He goes on to say, though, the following in v. 14:

*Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.*

Now he says, *Nevertheless* death reigned during that time. In spite of the fact that sin was not imputed during that time, people still died. Therefore, some sin was imputed to all people. But what sin? Their own or Adam's? It would seem that it must have been Adam's sin, but that seems to contradict what he says in v. 12: "death spread to all men, because all sinned."


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## Puritan Sailor (Feb 4, 2010)

Der Pilger said:


> Hello all,
> 
> This has probably been brought up before, but my question is based on Romans 5:12-14. Verse 12 says,
> 
> ...


 
Adam stood as our representative before God. When he sinned, we sinned. When he died, we died. And Paul goes to explain that the opposite happens for those in Christ. The point Paul makes about sin not being imputed when there is no law is actually proving his point from vs. 12. If there was no law, then sin would not be imputed, and men would not die. BUT there was death, therefore there was a law and sin was imputed. Whose sin? Adam's sin was imputed to all. Paul is comparing the federal roles of Adam and Christ. Adam brought condemnation and death for all he represented, and Christ brings justification and life for all those he represented.


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## Der Pilger (Feb 4, 2010)

Puritan Sailor said:


> Adam stood as our representative before God. When he sinned, we sinned. When he died, we died. And Paul goes to explain that the opposite happens for those in Christ. The point Paul makes about sin not being imputed when there is no law is actually proving his point from vs. 12. If there was no law, then sin would not be imputed, and men would not die. BUT there was death, therefore there was a law and sin was imputed. Whose sin? Adam's sin was imputed to all. Paul is comparing the federal roles of Adam and Christ. Adam brought condemnation and death for all he represented, and Christ brings justification and life for all those he represented.


 
So you take the phrase in v. 12, "because all sinned," to mean "because all sinned *in Adam*," correct?


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## Puritan Sailor (Feb 4, 2010)

Der Pilger said:


> Puritan Sailor said:
> 
> 
> > Adam stood as our representative before God. When he sinned, we sinned. When he died, we died. And Paul goes to explain that the opposite happens for those in Christ. The point Paul makes about sin not being imputed when there is no law is actually proving his point from vs. 12. If there was no law, then sin would not be imputed, and men would not die. BUT there was death, therefore there was a law and sin was imputed. Whose sin? Adam's sin was imputed to all. Paul is comparing the federal roles of Adam and Christ. Adam brought condemnation and death for all he represented, and Christ brings justification and life for all those he represented.
> ...


 
Yes. Through the one man's sin all sinned. Adam sinned on our behalf and we get the credit for it. That's why we are cursed and die. And believers are given the credit for Christ's obedience in justification, which is why we are blessed and have eternal life.


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 6, 2010)

Jeremy,

I recommend this book

Amazon.com: The Imputation of Adam's Sin (9780875523415): John Murray: Books

As Patrick notes, the guilt and culpability of Adam's sin is imputed to us. If you notice the parallel in Romans 5, two heads are noted.

Ask yourself this question while reading Romans 5: Are we righteous (according to Romans 5) because we were righteous or because of Christ's righteousness. Are we righteous? Yes. Does God see us as righteous? Yes. Is it because of Christ's righteousness? Yes.

Likewise, the guilt and culpability of Adam's Sin is imputed to us. So the parallel is this:

Do all die because of Adam's sin? Yes.
Did all sin? Yes.

Why, because the guilt and culpability of Adam's sin is imputed to his offspring just as the righteousness of Christ is imputed to His spiritual offspring as the Second Adam.


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## Der Pilger (Feb 6, 2010)

Semper Fidelis said:


> Jeremy,
> 
> I recommend this book
> 
> Amazon.com: The Imputation of Adam's Sin (9780875523415): John Murray: Books



Thanks, Rich. I actually have had that book for years but had forgotten all about it. I'll have to delve into it again.

The way you and Patrick have presented it is as I have seen it for a long time--i.e., the Reformed interpretation. I was just wondering about it again because of the phrase "because all sinned." It just really looks like Paul is saying that death spread to all men because all men actually, individually sinned. But I agree that from the context the Reformed view is the one that makes the most sense. We all sinned in Adam. If not, those who lived from Adam to Moses, when there was no law, should not have died, since sin is not imputed when there is no law. Therefore, they all sinned in Adam. That seems to be Paul's line of reasoning.


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## MW (Feb 7, 2010)

Der Pilger said:


> It just really looks like Paul is saying that death spread to all men because all men actually, individually sinned. But I agree that from the context the Reformed view is the one that makes the most sense.


 
Looking back at the context provided by the first eleven verses of chapter five, it will be seen that Paul has begun to speak about the effects of justification; more specifically, he is insisting that all those who are justified shall be certainly glorified. This is the fundamental thought which pervades Romans 5-8. The one and the many teaching of 5:12-19 is designed to substantiate the point taught in verses 1-11, and show that the certainty of life through one man is antithetically parallel to the certainty of death through one man -- that as the sin of one resulted in condemnation and ultimately death, so likewise does the righteousness of one result in justification and life. On the basis of this overall point it is impossible to read the passage as though it intended to teach that every man has personally sinned in himself and individually incurred the consequence of death.


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