# Is Reformation Day a Protestant Saints' Day?



## Afterthought (Oct 25, 2017)

...or ecclesiastical holiday or religious holiday? While Wikis should be taken with a grain of salt, it is interesting how it describes the origins of the day as an "important" day set aside by the _church_: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reformation_Day Indeed, we hear of "Reformation Sunday" as well.

It is also interesting how it has become a civic holiday in some lands.

It is puzzling how this website describes it as a "religious holiday" (the wiki describes it that way too): https://www.gotquestions.org/Reformation-Day.html (and here again with the "religious holiday:" https://www.thegospelcoalition.org/...ld-know-about-halloween-and-reformation-day-2)

The way I've seen it/heard of it being celebrated, it is not a day of thanksgiving as outlined by the Westminster Directory for Public worship (not to mention its recurrent nature), which is not a mere party, but a day of religious exercise (although there is some feasting too) to be used in an "holy and religious manner" (WCF 21.5).**

While I understand the history of the day being on All Saints' Eve, it is an interesting coincidence that on that day Protestant saints are remembered. If this is a Protestant saints' day, are there any remaining objections to Papist saints' days?

(While I am personally suspicious of the day and do not support its observance, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.)


Edit: It may have come from Lutheran churches (again, I see it called a "religious holiday"): https://www.britannica.com/topic/Reformation-Day

Edit2: Another oddity, one would think that "Reformation day" for Presbyterians would be related to further reformations, not this particular day when Luther had still not renounced the authority of the Pope.


**
"The day being come, and the congregation (after private preparations) being assembled, the minister is to begin with a word of exhortation, to stir up the people to the duty for which they are met, and with a short prayer for God’s assistance and blessing, (as at other conventions for publick worship,) according to the particular occasion of their meeting.

Let him then make some pithy narration of the deliverance obtained, or mercy received, or of whatever hath occasioned that assembling of the congregation, that all may better understand it, or be minded of it, and more affected with it.

And, because singing of psalms is of all other the most proper ordinance for expressing of joy and thanksgiving, let some pertinent psalm or psalms be sung for that purpose, before or after the reading of some portion of the word suitable to the present business.

Then let the minister, who is to preach, proceed to further exhortation and prayer before his sermon, with special reference to the present work: after which, let him preach upon some text of Scripture pertinent to the occasion.

The sermon ended, let him not only pray, as at other times after preaching is directed, with remembrance of the necessities of the Church, King, and State, (if before the sermon they were omitted,) but enlarge himself in due and solemn thanksgiving for former mercies and deliverances; but more especially for that which at the present calls them together to give thanks: with humble petition for the continuance and renewing of God’s wonted mercies, as need shall be, and for sanctifying grace to make a right use thereof. And so, having sung another psalm, suitable to the mercy, let him dismiss the congregation with a blessing, that they may have some convenient time for their repast and refreshing.

But the minister (before their dismission) is solemnly to admonish them to beware of all excess and riot, tending to gluttony or drunkenness, and much more of these sins themselves, in their eating and refreshing; and to take care that their mirth and rejoicing be not carnal, but spiritual, which may make God’s praise to be glorious, and themselves humble and sober; and that both their feeding and rejoicing may render them more cheerful and enlarged, further to celebrate his praises in the midst of the congregation, when they return unto it in the remaining part of that day.

When the congregation shall be again assembled, the like course in praying, reading, preaching, singing of psalms, and offering up of more praise and thanksgiving, that is before directed for the morning, is to be renewed and continued, so far as the time will give leave.

At one or both of the publick meetings that day, a collection is to be made for the poor, (and in the like manner upon the day of publick humiliation,) that their loins may bless us, and rejoice the more with us. And the people are to be exhorted, at the end of the latter meeting, to spend the residue of that day in holy duties, and testifications of Christian love and charity one towards another, and of rejoicing more and more in the Lord; as becometh those who make the joy of the Lord their strength."

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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 25, 2017)

I never heard of it being a "thing" until maybe late last 10 or 15 years, and even then not more than a time to have a converence until more recently. Stands to reason though given the paucity of Presbyterian opposition to the old idolatrous church calendar got rid of back in Knox's days.

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## Scott Bushey (Oct 25, 2017)

> (While I am personally suspicious of the day and do not support its observance, I'm not entirely sure what to make of it.)



My sentiments, as well. However, I find myself using it as a tool against Halloween in the Protestant realm-which, when u think of it, is ridiculous that one has to even mention that! Most all protestants celebrate H'ween and this pains me to no end, so I resort to chiding them w/ reformation day to be more fitting-to which, is ultimately a losing battle. So sad.

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## Edward (Oct 25, 2017)

I don't have any problem with recognizing the 500th anniversary of one of the most important events in history.

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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 25, 2017)

I believe we should be thinking about "THE REFORMATION" all year this year.

Otherwise, if God was not providentially gracious to us in the movement 500 years ago with a myriad of various people, we might still be kissing the Pope's ring. <shudder> <squirm>

And, with the cornerstone doctrines it recovered (like imputation), and with the malady of sad preaching and teaching in our own day, I take every opportunity around anything "REFORMED" to light a fire under the _Christian behind.

(See how I worked all that out there...) _

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## Afterthought (Oct 25, 2017)

The question, of course, is not _thinking_ about or being _grateful_ for the Reformation or even _celebrating _it in general. The question is observance of _Reformation Day_. Part of the Reformation was getting rid of days not appointed by the Lord, so it is not only a valid question to ask but it is not enough to simply say, "We are grateful for the Reformation" or "The Reformation is important" or "God was gracious to us in the Reformation" to justify the observance/meet the doubts concerning its observance/fully explain its nature. Otherwise, we may have yet another oddity about Reformation day: observance of a day that should not be observed if one held to Reformed doctrine and truly was grateful to God's graciousness to us and viewed the Reformation as important.

If it helps to focus discussion, consider the 499th or 501st anniversary instead (not that there should be anything special about the 500th either other than it is a round number).

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## Parakaleo (Oct 25, 2017)

Afterthought said:


> we may have yet another oddity about Reformation day: observance of a day that should not be observed if one held to Reformed doctrine and truly was grateful to God's graciousness and viewed the Reformation as important.



Though I have participated in "Reformation Day" activities in the past, I have resolved that I will neither condone nor lend my support to any recurring, religious feast day.

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## Parakaleo (Oct 25, 2017)

One more thing: if it's thanksgiving days we desire, then let us pray for a work of reformation in our own time! I would be the first to suggest a day of thanksgiving for that.

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## Parmenas (Oct 25, 2017)

Afterthought said:


> The way I've seen it/heard of it being celebrated, it is not a day of thanksgiving as outlined by the Westminster Directory for Public worship (not to mention its recurrent nature), which is not a mere party, but a day of religious exercise (although there is some feasting too) to be used in an "holy and religious manner" (WCF 21.5).



I have never heard of Reformation Day being celebrated as a holy-day or popish feast. Could you please provide examples to support your statement?



Afterthought said:


> If it helps to focus discussion, consider the 499th or 501st anniversary instead (not that there should be anything special about the 500th either other than it is a round number).



It _is_ a special number. In all numeral systems, greater significance is assigned to certain numbers. 500, for instance, derives its significance from 1,000, another important number.


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## BG (Oct 25, 2017)

There is nothing wrong with Christians celebrating, we should do more of it.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Oct 25, 2017)

Can we apply this exact reasoning to Christmas and Easter? If not, we may be showing partiality.

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## Parakaleo (Oct 26, 2017)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> Can we apply this exact reasoning to Christmas and Easter?



We can.

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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> I believe we should be thinking about "THE REFORMATION" all year this year.
> 
> Otherwise, if God was not providentially gracious to us in the movement 500 years ago with a myriad of various people, we might still be kissing the Pope's ring. <shudder> <squirm>
> 
> ...



So do you mark "Reformation Sunday" on your church calendar?


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## BG (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm not sure all the reformers were against liturgical calanders. If you recognize or celebrate reformation Sunday then for some that might be a glaring inconsistency, that may not be the case if it is the last Friday of October.


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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

BG said:


> I'm not sure all the reformers were against liturgical calanders. If you recognize or celebrate reformation Sunday then for some that might be a glaring inconsistency, that may not be the case if it is the last Friday of October.



I am pretty sure the Reformers that gave us the WCF were against any type of a Reformation Holiday, Holyday or whatever. Make no mistake the question that follows is essential to understanding this subject....How do we classify that day? Like the 4th of July, like a annual thanksgiving (which the Reformers were against), a religious Holy-Holiday? Until on puts the "reformation day" into a category I listed, as I believe is necessary, the justification for observing such will crumble under scrutiny.


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## BG (Oct 26, 2017)

earl40 said:


> I am pretty sure the Reformers that gave us the WCF were against any type of a Reformation Holiday, Holyday or whatever. Make no mistake the question that follows is essential to understanding this subject....How do we classify that day? Like the 4th of July, like a annual thanksgiving (which the Reformers were against), a religious Holy-Holiday? Until on puts the "reformation day" into a category I listed, as I believe is necessary, the justification for observing such will crumble under scrutiny.


 I agree the classification of this day is crucial to how we understand it. Another question that arises is this, is reformation a Christian doctrine that can be preached and exegeted on the Lord’s day? Also, are we to celebrate on the lords day, is it OK to celebrate the reformation, is it OK to celebrate justification or sanctification or the birth of Christ or the death of Christ? What about celebrating on days other than the lords day, is it OK to celebrate a good Providence, is it OK to celebrate the birth of a child, is it OK to celebrate an anniversary or birthday? Does chapter 21 of the confession of faith allow us to do any of these things?


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 26, 2017)

earl40 said:


> So do you mark "Reformation Sunday" on your church calendar?



Not a chance. I dont have a "church calendar".
As a matter of fact, I dont use a calendar at all and often dont know what day it is during the week. 

The Lord's Day is it.

But I'd count it among "times of the year" I'm grateful to think about. Like piles of stones, it stands as a monument of remembrance (Gen. 28, Josh. 24).

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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 26, 2017)

The issue is not marking an anniversary with a word of thanks or observation or what have you, but whether religious significance is assigned.

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## Afterthought (Oct 26, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> The issue is not marking an anniversary with a word of thanks or observation or what have you, but whether religious significance is assigned.


I agree.


It is also not a question of whether lawful activities are done on that day but whether the day has been assigned to those activities as a day of religious significance. If Reformed and Presbyterian churches do not observe the day as one with religious significance, further questions can arise as to the wisdom of marking it with conferences and marking a "Reformation Sunday" (although elevating a particular Lord's day above others like that sounds dubious in itself) if it is widely recognized as a religious holiday by others, having seemingly come from Lutheran circles (and of course, the wisdom of such things given widespread confusion about holy days in Reformed circles). And further questions can also arise as to the propriety of commemorating a religious Reformation with frivolous activities....or commemorating anything with things that ape Halloween activities or repurpose them/dress them up differently.



Elisha said:


> I have never heard of Reformation Day being celebrated as a holy-day or popish feast. Could you please provide examples to support your statement?


That was precisely my point: it is not celebrated as a day of thanksgiving, so it cannot be classified as a day of thanksgiving. I don't know of examples in the Reformed church of celebrating it as a religious holy-day, but the example of assigning "Reformation Sunday" and viewing that Sunday or Reformation day as an extra special day for worship does raise eyebrows. (You can google for it; maybe I will later; I found something from the PC(USA). And then of course, there's the Gospel Coalition link and others that call it a "religious holiday.")



Elisha said:


> It _is_ a special number. In all numeral systems, greater significance is assigned to certain numbers. 500, for instance, derives its significance from 1,000, another important number.


Yes, in retrospect, my point concerning that wasn't clear. I was merely trying to prevent further discussion of "it's the 500th" so that we could discuss the legitimacy and nature of Reformation day instead of this particular Reformation day. But to help make things clear, I'll grant your point, so long as we continue to discuss Reformation day.

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## Jack K (Oct 26, 2017)

I see it get treated as a day of remembrance, rather like Pearl Harbor Day here in America, but with more positive overtones. It usually doesn't get written on a calendar, but when that day comes around you might recall what happened on that date in history. And if it comes around on a notable anniversary, say 500 or 500 years, you might even hold a special event to celebrate or remember.

It seems good for the church that the Reformation's 500th anniversary is causing people to look back and reconnect with some Reformation principles.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 26, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> The issue is not marking an anniversary with a word of thanks or observation or what have you, but whether religious significance is assigned.



I don't know exactly what you mean in this phrase "religious significance." If I pick a copy of your current Confessional Presbyterian, there is a bio in there about the gentleman on the front cover. If I read that, will I gain any religious significance in it? (i.e. does it pertain to things religious, or to things secular?)

Or, if I read a history of the reformation, should I gain any _religious significance_ when I read it?
I don't see how anyone could read any historical account of anyone in the church, or any movement in church history, without attaching to it some form of religious significance.

When I read a historical biographical work on Eli Whitney and the creation of the Cotton Gin, for all intents and purposes, I don't equate that with any religious significance.
When I read a historical biographical work on John Calvin, or the Reformation, or Fox's Book of Martyrs, I attach to that a whole lot of religious significance.

Now, if you mean, attach _religious meaning (i.e. the acceptable way of worshipping the true God instituted by himself, and so limited to his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scripture) _equated with doctrinal and biblical observance of something like the Lord's Day, then, well, that's different.

There are a lot of places I can attached "religious significance" to. When I cut wood, as one working before the Lord; when I go to the grocery story, as one who is a good steward of my finances and such before the Lord, _etc_. All those have religious significance.


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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> The issue is not marking an anniversary with a word of thanks or observation or what have you, but whether religious significance is assigned.



Exactly. So how are we to label it was my point? Religious, secular, or a combination of both? I have yet to read a satisfactory answer to this question.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Oct 26, 2017)

earl40 said:


> Exactly. So how are we to label it was my point? Religious, secular, or a combination of both? I have yet to read a satisfactory answer to this question.



It would have to be _a historically important event of God's special providence_, which has attached to it religious significance since it deals with the realm of His Fatherly providence over the government of his church. (See my post above; my definition of _religious significance_ is a broad stroke in this case).


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 26, 2017)

Correct; maybe sacred significance is a better phrase. Someone noted someone calling this a religious holiday; this is granting a sacred significance to marking/observing the Reformation that the church has no authority to do. But simply expressing thanks in prayer or preaching on a biblical text relative to the Reformation of itself, teaching on the reformation in a lecture outside actual worship, without anything more than that is another matter. 


C. Matthew McMahon said:


> Now, if you mean, attach _religious meaning (i.e. the acceptable way of worshipping the true God instituted by himself, and so limited to his own revealed will, that he may not be worshipped according to the imaginations and devices of men, or the suggestions of Satan, under any visible representations or any other way not prescribed in the Holy Scripture) _equated with doctrinal and biblical observance of something like the Lord's Day, then, well, that's different.

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## JimmyH (Oct 26, 2017)

Until this 500th anniversary started becoming ubiquitous on the web I hadn't really thought of it beyond celebrating the birth of the Reformation as something God did through His Spirit to enlighten the eyes of Martin Luther's understanding as he read the Scriptures. God raised up a man and empowered him to stand alone against the RCC at the risk of his life to fulfil His purposes, and freed the saints to worship in Spirit and in truth. Certainly not a hallowed day to be worshipped, but a day to be grateful for.


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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Correct; maybe sacred significance is a better phrase. Someone noted someone calling this a religious holiday; this is granting a sacred significance to marking/observing the Reformation that the church has no authority to do. But simply expressing thanks in prayer or preaching on a biblical text relative to the Reformation of itself, teaching on the reformation in a lecture outside actual worship, without anything more than that is another matter.



Ok if this so why not do this for the birth or resurrection? Which are "sacred significant" events set apart by much of the church. What is good enough for the goose is good enough for the gander.  I understand the RPW usually is reserved for the official aspects of worship, but I know the RPW also connects our thoughts and deeds outside of such. This is why as Reformed Protestants we should not be associated with any special "sacred significant" events.

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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 26, 2017)

It is not parallel because we are to reject taking our cues from monuments of idolatry. The pretended holy days are monuments of past and present idolatry and are idols themselves as Gillespie shows in his EPC.

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## jw (Oct 26, 2017)

No.


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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

Joshua said:


> No.



I would reply "yes" but this would be unbefitting. Think of what I am trying to say (obviously poorly) with the idea of having a sacred event, like Christmas, outside of Sunday. Replace any admonition to reject Christmas Monday through Sunday here on the PB, and replace it with the words Reformation Day. You will find how well this works many times.


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## Parakaleo (Oct 26, 2017)

I'm uncomfortable (to put it mildly) with the church engaging in any recurring, annual observances of a religious nature. If a date on the calendar (other than the Lord's Day each week, of course) would have us, as the church, say, "It's time we gather for a solemn assembly, a holy convocation," or even, "an uplifting time of prayer, singing, and attending upon the preached word," I'm going to say, "On whose authority?"

Church power is declarative, not enactive. This is why it is right for the church to announce a day of thanksgiving in response to God's extraordinary works of providence; that would be _declaratory_. This is also why it would be wrong for the church to establish a recurring feast day. That would be to drift into the realm of _enactive_ power.

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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> It is not parallel because we are to reject taking our cues from monuments of idolatry. The pretended holy days are monuments of past and present idolatry and are idols themselves as Gillespie shows in his EPC.



The parallel would not be unlike the rejection of Christmas Monday-Sunday. I understand the RPW is a guard for Sunday, though the connection to how we are not to observe "days,months or years" is appropriate in my opinion.


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## jw (Oct 26, 2017)

earl40 said:


> I would reply "yes" but this would be unbefitting. Think of what I am trying to say (obviously poorly) with the idea of having a sacred event, like Christmas, outside of Sunday. Replace any admonition to reject Christmas Monday through Sunday here on the PB, and replace it with the words Reformation Day. You will find how well this works many times.


I'm denying the [lawful] existence of "Saint's Days," period. I am _not_ supporting a day of religious devotion not instituted by the Lord. On the other hand, a voluntary gathering with the Lord's people -not for a worship service- in remembrance of a great day in history, celebrating with games, food, etc., I am not sure how that can be forbidden. Nothing official. Nothing particularly _special_. Just a time to get together and have fun . . . like 4th of July, like Bob's Birthday, like . . . well, you get it.

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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> I'm uncomfortable (to put it mildly) with the church engaging in any recurring, annual observances of a religious nature. If a date on the calendar (other than the Lord's Day each week, of course) would have us, as the church, say, "It's time we gather for a solemn assembly, a holy convocation," or even, "an uplifting time of prayer, singing, and attending upon the preached word," I'm going to say, "On whose authority?"
> 
> Church power is declarative, not enactive. This is why it is right for the church to announce a day of thanksgiving in response to God's extraordinary works of providence; that would be _declaratory_. This is also why it would be wrong for the church to establish a recurring feast day. That would be to drift into the realm of _enactive_ power.



This is what can happen to a reformed church as posted below by a congregation I love dearly. 


It's the 500th Anniversary of the Reformation!
This Sunday, join us for a service of worship and celebration! Bring a friend! 
It's an exciting Sunday:

Pastor "...." will preach a message entitled, _500 Years of Peace. _
Our new Director of Student Ministries, "....", will assist in worship leadership.
Our choral group will lead a musical offering.
We will hear more about our fall generosity campaign.
We'll continue our new five-week Sunday seminar celebrating the 500th Anniversary of the Protestant Reformation in Room 604 at 9AM. 
Right before the sermon, we will invite children, K-5th grade, to enjoy a special teaching time designed just for them.

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## earl40 (Oct 26, 2017)

Joshua said:


> I'm denying the [lawful] existence of "Saint's Days," period. I am _not_ supporting a day of religious devotion not instituted by the Lord. On the other hand, a voluntary gathering with the Lord's people -not for a worship service- in remembrance of a great day in history, celebrating with games, food, etc., I am not sure how that can be forbidden. Nothing official. Nothing particularly _special_. Just a time to get together and have fun . . . like 4th of July, like Bob's Birthday, like . . . well, you get it.





Joshua said:


> I'm denying the [lawful] existence of "Saint's Days," period. I am _not_ supporting a day of religious devotion not instituted by the Lord. On the other hand, a voluntary gathering with the Lord's people -not for a worship service- in remembrance of a great day in history, celebrating with games, food, etc., I am not sure how that can be forbidden. Nothing official. Nothing particularly _special_. Just a time to get together and have fun . . . like 4th of July, like Bob's Birthday, like . . . well, you get it.



On Sunday?


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## jw (Oct 26, 2017)

earl40 said:


> On Sunday?


I just answered the question posted in the title. Obviously, what I mentioned above could be misused, perverted, and made something that it is not. That does not make it a "Saint's Day," which cannot lawfully exist, as there is but one day in seven that the Lord has appointed as a holy day, the Lord's Day, the Sabbath Day, the first day of the week. _Of course_ we should not have petty parties on the Lord's Day, when we get to take part of the delectable gifts of the King at His palace. I don't celebrate Bob's Birthday on the Lord's Day. I don't gather for an historical remembrance of our independence on the 4th of July if that falls upon the Lord's Day. I am not willing to call the Lord's Day "Reformation Day" if it happens to fall on October 31st, etc. etc. But none of those was the question in the title of the thread. _Has_ a remembrance of the Reformation become abused? Maybe. I don't know. I don't pay much attention to what all the other churches are doing. But their abuse, misuse, or perversion of an indifferent matter does not mean I may not _lawfully_ take part in my aforementioned activities (_not_ on the Lord's Day, duh).

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## jwithnell (Oct 26, 2017)

Well, we come together in the evening to enjoy fellowship with four surrounding OPC churches and many others too. We have a worship service from call to benediction with four (count 'em) sermons around a particular text or topic. Seems like an extraordinary Lord's day to me!

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## Parmenas (Oct 26, 2017)

Afterthought said:


> That was precisely my point: it is not celebrated as a day of thanksgiving, so it cannot be classified as a day of thanksgiving. I don't know of examples in the Reformed church of celebrating it as a religious holy-day, but the example of assigning "Reformation Sunday" and viewing that Sunday or Reformation day as an extra special day for worship does raise eyebrows. (You can google for it; maybe I will later; I found something from the PC(USA). And then of course, there's the Gospel Coalition link and others that call it a "religious holiday.")



Thank you for your response. I understand what you are saying; I agree with you. Such practices are very questionable.


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## earl40 (Oct 28, 2017)

Joshua said:


> I'm denying the [lawful] existence of "Saint's Days," period. I am _not_ supporting a day of religious devotion not instituted by the Lord. On the other hand, a voluntary gathering with the Lord's people -not for a worship service- in remembrance of a great day in history, celebrating with games, food, etc., I am not sure how that can be forbidden. Nothing official. Nothing particularly _special_. Just a time to get together and have fun . . . like 4th of July, like Bob's Birthday, like . . . well, you get it.



I understand I am pressing here and only would like for you to clarify the above.  If one wishes to celebrate a past providential event Our Lord did why would one classify it as it as "nothing particularly _special"?_

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## Steve Curtis (Oct 28, 2017)

Every "event" - past, present, or future - is providential. Thus, by definition, they cannot all be "particularly" special!


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## VictorBravo (Oct 28, 2017)

It's funny. I didn't realize it was the 500th anniversary of Luther's posting until I read this thread. I've been way too immersed in the pressings of my local life, apparently.

Our church isn't doing any sort of thing like an observance. We plow on through Scripture regardless of the world's time-keeping.

This anniversary's on a Tuesday, right? I don't drink beer, but I'm tempted to find a nice doppelbock and crack open my copy of _Bondage of the Will _for an evening read this coming Tuesday. Just 'cause. Like Josh said, it's like a birthday.


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## jw (Oct 28, 2017)

earl40 said:


> I understand I am pressing here and only would like for you to clarify the above.  If one wishes to celebrate a past providential event Our Lord did why would one classify it as it as "nothing particularly _special"?_


Less like “pressing,” Brother, and more like “reaching.”  Nothing “particularly special” in context of “holy” special. I’m a little surprised that such is not understood, given the context, and pretty much anything I’ve said on this forum concerning pretended holy days and the 4th Commandment. The sabbath day is the only holy day appointed by God under the NT administration of the Covenant of Grace. The Lord brooks no competitors in that regard. If one is remembering, recognizing, propping up or otherwise comparing the value of October 31st, 1517 instead of or alongside the sabbath day, then one is wrong to do so. If one is attaching religious devotion to it, then one is wrong to do so. This, however, is not to say that there cannot be a thankful remembrance of it (again, NOT on the Lord’s Day) as a turning point in history with joy, food, drink, and with the Lord’s people. If this be the case, let us turn aside from any planned gatherings with the Lord’s people that do not fall upon the sabbath day. Unlike silly Santa day, and Ishtar, this was never a day set up for co-opting pagan forms under the guise of Christian “holy days” to bring in said pagans and call them Christians. Just a wonderful day in the history of providence, and lawful to be remembered and celebrated, but not as a holy day, or a religious worship, or on the sabbath day.

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## BG (Oct 29, 2017)

Gentlemen what do you think about the following: suppose the civil magistrate declared the last Thursday in October to be an official state celebrated holiday called reformation day, would it be wrong to celebrate this day?

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## earl40 (Oct 31, 2017)

Not wanting to associate Reformation Day with the RC idea of Halloween. People will express to many a happy Reformation Day, that is not officially recognized by the church, but is set apart by many members in the church, and of which is not any type of religious celebration of any sort.

How in the world do we do this with "Ye observe days, and months, and seasons, and years." Knowing that the observance of days, months, seasons, and years were set apart outside of the official function of the church of Israel.

Allow me to beat a dead horse to death.


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## OPC'n (Oct 31, 2017)

It's not nice to beat dead horses to dead.

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## earl40 (Oct 31, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> It's not nice to beat dead horses to dead.



No doubt many will think that is exactly what I am attempting to do. Sort of like winning The Triple Crown which is very difficult. 

As a side note I believe the part I posted "which is not any type of religious celebration of any sort" should be addressed, because to think of this day as not a type of "religious celebration" is the part many justify setting apart that day as some type of holy holiday. in my opinion the Y or I on holyiday makes no difference. The fact of the matter is many are _setting apart_ a day which I wholeheartedly agree Our Lord used in His providence.


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 31, 2017)

What is the difference between marking today some way for a time, maybe no more than giving thanks that God sent Reformation during one's normal prayer time, or in marking someone's birthday or the first of the year as well making appropriate prayers in relation thereto? If there is no sacred significance attached to the day, how does the apostle's warning apply? Is your objection that some are formally calling this day Reformation day?


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## Steve Curtis (Oct 31, 2017)

And a hearty Happy Reformation Day to you, too - and from Wittenberg, no less. 
[Actually, in Berlin now. We concluded our conference in Wittenberg yesterday.]


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## jw (Oct 31, 2017)

The new thread that is essentially asking the same question asked before has been merged with the thread in which the newly minted thread originator had before asked essentially the same question. Please note, also, that the question had been answered; thus, there was no reason to create a new thread essentially asking the same question.

Likening a voluntary non-religious celebration of an historical event does not equate to religiously observing a day that the Lord has never appointed. It is freely and happily admitted that a religious observance of a day, essentially appointing it as holy, by the inventions of men is a violation of -at the very least- the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 8th, 9th, and 10th commandments (and tied to _all _of them, in one way or another). _That_ is not what is being argued.

The freedom for men -apart from the Lord's Day, and not in a holy or religious manner- to have a day of remembrance for a significant positive historical event is lawful, is what is being argued. This is not difficult, or -at least- shouldn't be. The reference to Galatians 4, wherein the Apostle gives reproof for observing days, months, and years is a reference to Leviticus 23, all which once "holy convocations" had been abolished. Celebrating/remembering the pivotal event nailing of the 95 theses on the door of Wittenburg chapel:

1. Is no such religious convocation formerly appointed by the Lord to his people.
2. Has no ties to a particular religious worship service, and no association with any monument of past idolatry.​
This is no Christ-mass. This is no Ishtar. This is not meant to be some religious celebration taken up _in _the church, _on_ the Lord's Day, _as_ a religious service.


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## earl40 (Oct 31, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> What is the difference between marking today some way for a time, maybe no more than giving thanks that God sent Reformation during one's normal prayer time, or in marking someone's birthday or the first of the year as well making appropriate prayers in relation thereto? If there is no sacred significance attached to the day, how does the apostle's warning apply? Is your objection that some are formally calling this day Reformation day?



Yes I would see a problem with calling it Reformation Day, and this is the same as calling Dec. 25th Christmas...In other words, one should not connect any day of the week with "religious significance" which has passed with the coming of Jesus. I understand the thought of not attaching religious significance but I know this stretches credulity. I am attempting to be consistent on how we ought to live our lives according to The Word which as has been quoted before in this paraphrase....."If Our Lord forbids past religious observance of prescribed days that were given in the OT how can one not understand the connection with current man made holi-holydays which are set apart".


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## earl40 (Oct 31, 2017)

Joshua said:


> The freedom for men -apart from the Lord's Day, and not in a holy or religious manner- to have a day of remembrance for a significant positive historical event is lawful, is what is being argued. This is not difficult, or -at least- shouldn't be.



The "apart from the Lord's Day, and not in a holy or religious manner" is impossible. Just saying.


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## jw (Oct 31, 2017)

earl40 said:


> The "apart from the Lord's Day, and not in a holy or religious manner" is impossible. Just saying.


"Just saying" does not make it so, my Friend. We hold remembrance and observance of things all the time "apart from the Lord's Day, and not in a holy or religious manner." Civil days of remembrance. Birthdays. So on, so forth. I am truly baffled that you cannot ascertain this nuance. But I will help you. Thread is closing. Do not bring up any more threads or posts about this matter. It is just silly.

Reactions: Sad 1


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