# Christian response to Ouija boards?



## RamistThomist

Obviously, I believe they are evil but should our response be along the lines of "That stuff is fake" or "that stuff is tapping into demonic forces?"


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## earl40

The paper and plastic in the game is not evil in of itself but the inappropriate use of the material is what is evil.


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## kodos

"If you really want infallible supernatural revelation, read the Bible."


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## RamistThomist

My larger context was not "I need a good response--any response--to Ouija." Rather, should the response focus around, "You silly goose. It's not real." Or "You are playing with forces beyond your control"?


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## earl40

The act of of usurping God is real but the "power"of the board game is not. I like the "silly goose" response though much superstition abounds in the pagan and and sad to say also the Christian culture.


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## Free Christian

When I was young I used a Ouija board plenty of times and delved into the occult. Whilst I am not sure that I was tapping into demonic forces I certainly was doing the will of Satan and in doing so, going in direct opposition to the Word of God in consulting spirits. Whether or not I actually was, I in my heart I thought and believed I was. So I would say that in doing so one is dong the will of Satan and disobeying God in regards to consulting the dead or evil spirits.


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## MarieP

I was given a Ouija board for "fun" when I was in middle school. Every time my sister and I or our friends "played" with it, someone ended up getting angry and someone else would get their feelings hurt...every time! Sometimes it was over whether or not one of us was purposely moving the pointer. Another time it was a friend of mine whose parents were getting a divorce, and the "answer" she got was "no" it wouldn't be resolved- she started accusing my other friends of being cruel. Then, the last straw was when a friend, who was superstitious to my surprise (she was a "conservative" Jew), was told that she would die the next day.

I told all this to my youth leader, and she suggested I throw it out (not bad for the PCUSA, huh?) I tried to at first, but I got caught by my sister, who begged me to keep it. I did, since my dad heard about it- "It's just a game" (though he acknowledged my concerns). It was never used by anyone for the next year, and one day I took it out of the cabinet and threw it into a garbage pail underneath a bunch of bush trimmings. It wasn't found that time!

Granted, knowing the human heart, any game can become a conduit for anger and hurt. And the blame is on those using it and not in the Ouija board itself. But still...100 percent of the times it was used, things ended badly. Didn't seem a wise thing with which to play!


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## Andres

I was taught if you go looking for the devil, you'll find him.


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## psycheives

Andres said:


> I was taught if you go looking for the devil, you'll find him.



I met 3 people who "went looking" and found him. At least a demon. 

To answer the OP question: "should our response be along the lines of "That stuff is fake" or "that stuff is tapping into demonic forces?""

I would 100% answer "that stuff is opening oneself up to demonic forces" in some way. It is the same as doing "eastern/Hindu/Buddhist meditation" practices. Or praying to Satan. One girl was tortured by the thing attacking her and talking to her day and night and she was physically beating herself because it was in her head and she would fall over in torment. She has never escaped to my knowledge. One "Christian" man switched personalities over literally one night, claimed to be able to save people from their sins and control demons and became a vicious blasphemer of the Christian God and has never recovered either. One woman said it was the most powerful and destructive mistake she ever made and it was a miracle of God that she ever got out. She said that once you go in, it is almost certain you will never get out. Seriously, don't mess with that stuff. I used to be unsure if "demons possessed people anymore" but now I'm very convinced.


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## MichaelNZ

I have read quite a bit about Ouija boards. My advice is STAY FAR AWAY. I've read many stories where paranormal phenomena happen to people who use the Ouija board. Funnily enough, a friend and I were just discussing this the other day. He asked me if I'd ever heard of a particular demon people have encountered on the Ouija board (its name starts with Z but I won't type it here) and I had, several years ago. Apparently many people have come across this demon and there are supposedly records of it going back to the early 19th century (although I haven't personally verified this).

DO NOT USE A OUIJA BOARD. EVER.


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## One Little Nail

To use the Ouija board is to practice Occult Divination & Spiritualism, it is strictly forbidden by the Law of The Lord & can cause the users to become oppressed & tormented by Devils.


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## RamistThomist

MichaelNZ said:


> I have read quite a bit about Ouija boards. My advice is STAY FAR AWAY. I've read many stories where paranormal phenomena happen to people who use the Ouija board. Funnily enough, a friend and I were just discussing this the other day. He asked me if I'd ever heard of a particular demon people have encountered on the Ouija board (its name starts with Z but I won't type it here) and I had, several years ago. Apparently many people have come across this demon and there are supposedly records of it going back to the early 19th century (although I haven't personally verified this).
> 
> DO NOT USE A OUIJA BOARD. EVER.



I know what you are talking about. I immediately backed far away (literally).


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## RamistThomist

> It is silliness. It's huff, fluff, and balloon juice. The devil is God's devil, and the devils are God's devils, and they may only do as what is deemed fit by the Lord of Glory. No human has the ability to garner their "services," or conjure their activity. Look at the Witch of Endor's response when the Lord brought, either Samuel himself (to which I'm inclined), or an apparition of Samuel. She "cried with a loud voice." Now, if she'd _truly_ had this ability to bring up spirits, deal with the dead, should she have been surprised or afraid? The sin of witchery and divination in Scripture is not related to "meddling with the otherworld," but rather not trusting in the only God Who is, and thinking one may circumvent His rule and authority by way of somehow speaking with the dead and doing "magic." Whatever these counterfeit diviners, wizards, astrologers, demon-possession deliverers are doing, it _ain't_ magic, and it's not by some perceived power that fallen angels have. It seems that the "activity" of demonic forces, etc. have been relegated to distinct important times in religious history, namely when the King of His Kingdom came to establish His rule formally upon earth. All the anecdotal "evidence" in the world should never inform our understanding of "demonic activity," but only the Scriptures.
> 
> We shouldn't use a Ouija board for the same reason that we shouldn't disobey any of God's commandments. We are to worship Him only, seek Him only, and not try to usurp His appointed means in our dealings in the world.



So all of the cases where it appears that the demonic is present--everyone is simply simultaneously and harmlessly deluded? The prophet Isaiah does not seem to take that view (and no, I don't believe in magic).

Isaiah 47: in spite of your many sorceries, and the great power of your enchantments.


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## C. M. Sheffield

It is certainly delving into the occult and flirting with the demonic. Their is a power associated with these kinds of things, and one that many Christians underestimate.


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## earl40

Andres said:


> I was taught if you go looking for the devil, you'll find him.



And if a Ouija were made of goose down I would have it under my head every night and not have a care in the world.


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## reformedminister

Although it is just supposed to be a game, and is made of cardboard and plastic, it is divination and forbidden by God. Anyone playing with this is just opening a door that should remain shut. While many have played with this in just fun and nothing happened (me at church camp in my teens of all places), some have encountered the demonic. I have talked with people first hand who have testified to this. Christians should STAY FAR AWAY from this "game" and not take the subject lightly.


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## whirlingmerc

You could bring up that there's always the story of Saul who went to the witch of Endor the night before his death.... isn't the point of the game to communicate with something spiritual... or .. you might ask how might a Ouija board glorify God?

I think Joseph Smith used a divining rod to search for buried treasure and ended up getting a 'revelation' of a false gospel. Not seeing any value in that game other than a good example of something to avoid


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## Rob Marsh

Very interesting thread. If I recall, the ouija game comes packaged with instructions never to burn the game, but honestly, if one ever came into my possession that's the first thing I'd do with it.


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## earl40

whirlingmerc said:


> I think Joseph Smith used a divining rod to search for buried treasure and ended up getting a 'revelation' of a false gospel. Not seeing any value in that game other than a good example of something to avoid



I know he got not such thing. To think the devil communicated something directly to Smith is superstition.


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## One Little Nail

Rob Marsh said:


> Very interesting thread. If I recall, the ouija game comes packaged with instructions never to burn the game, but honestly, if one ever came into my possession that's the first thing I'd do with it.



Amen brother.


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## One Little Nail

earl40 said:


> whirlingmerc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Joseph Smith used a divining rod to search for buried treasure and ended up getting a 'revelation' of a false gospel. Not seeing any value in that game other than a good example of something to avoid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know he got not such thing. To think the devil communicated something directly to Smith is superstition.
Click to expand...


Whether he did or not we don't know, yes he could have made the whole thing up as he was apparently a bit of a story teller, but if people think that the Devil cannot communicate things to people or oppress, possess is basically a form of Liberalism, though I'm not saying that you are for clarity's sake.


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## MichaelNZ

earl40 said:


> whirlingmerc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Joseph Smith used a divining rod to search for buried treasure and ended up getting a 'revelation' of a false gospel. Not seeing any value in that game other than a good example of something to avoid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know he got not such thing. To think the devil communicated something directly to Smith is superstition.
Click to expand...


I think Joseph Smith's "vision" of God the Father and Jesus was demonic, if it really happened and he didn't just make it up. The Bible is clear that no man has seen the Father (John 6:46, 1 Timothy 6:16).


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## earl40

One Little Nail said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whirlingmerc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Joseph Smith used a divining rod to search for buried treasure and ended up getting a 'revelation' of a false gospel. Not seeing any value in that game other than a good example of something to avoid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know he got not such thing. To think the devil communicated something directly to Smith is superstition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Whether he did or not we don't know, yes he could have made the whole thing up as he was apparently a bit of a story teller, but if people think that the Devil cannot communicate things to people or oppress, possess is basically a form of Liberalism, though I'm not saying that you are for clarity's sake.
Click to expand...


This I do_ know_. Smith did not receive any direct revelation from the spirit realm in the way he and his witnesses say. To think the way he concocted The Book of Mormon as protrayed by Mormons is superstition.


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## earl40

MichaelNZ said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> whirlingmerc said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think Joseph Smith used a divining rod to search for buried treasure and ended up getting a 'revelation' of a false gospel. Not seeing any value in that game other than a good example of something to avoid
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I know he got not such thing. To think the devil communicated something directly to Smith is superstition.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think Joseph Smith's "vision" of God the Father and Jesus was demonic, if it really happened and he didn't just make it up. The Bible is clear that no man has seen the Father (John 6:46, 1 Timothy 6:16).
Click to expand...


I agree it was demonic in that satan is the father of all lies. He had no vision but maybe delusions derived from his own deluded mind and I tend to think the entire story of how he received his "revelation" was simply a pure unadulterated lie. To think he (Smith) got some kind of vision is superstition.


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## One Little Nail

earl40 said:


> I agree it was demonic in that satan is the father of all lies. He had no vision but maybe delusions derived from his own deluded mind and I tend to think the entire story of how he received his "revelation" was simply a pure unadulterated lie. To think he (Smith) got some kind of vision is superstition.



Earl I don't understand what you are trying to say here, 

i are you saying that Satan's demonic deception consisted in Smith having mental delusions by Satanic Spiritual Agency or 

ii are you equating Smiths mental delusion with Satan's demonic deception by saying they are one & the same and 
thus denying Satanical Spiritual Agency as superstition?


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## earl40

One Little Nail said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I agree it was demonic in that satan is the father of all lies. He had no vision but maybe delusions derived from his own deluded mind and I tend to think the entire story of how he received his "revelation" was simply a pure unadulterated lie. To think he (Smith) got some kind of vision is superstition.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earl I don't understand what you are trying to say here,
> 
> i are you saying that Satan's demonic deception consisted in Smith having mental delusions by Satanic Spiritual Agency or
> 
> ii are you equating Smiths mental delusion with Satan's demonic deception by saying they are one & the same and
> thus denying Satanical Spiritual Agency as superstition?
Click to expand...


I am simply pointing out how I believe he lied in how he got his "revelation".

It was not by any direct communication from the devil for this is the superstitious aspect I am speaking against which many Christians believe. His "revelation" was from the the devil which was from the result of the fall of man. Let us place all the blame on the fallen moral man and understand that the devil is the ultimate cause of such evil.


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## Pilgrim Standard

Deuteronomy 18:10-12
*There shall not be found among you any one *that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or *that useth divination*, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, 11Or a charmer, *or a consulter with familiar spirits*, or a wizard, *or a necromancer*. 12*For all that do these things are an abomination unto the LORD*: and because of these abominations the LORD thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

God says don't do this, and Christ says if you love me, keep my commandments.


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## Tirian

earl40 said:


> It was not by any direct communication from the devil for this is the superstitious aspect I am speaking against which many Christians believe.



So you're saying the devil did not communicate directly with Smith - how do you know this?


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## whirlingmerc

It's seeking spiritual guidance from something not God... real or not real.. 

It's possible Joseph Smith made up the whole story, I don't know. Also could be some small thing happened and serious embellishment followed puffed up by an egotistical mind. I can't rule out of hand that a demon directly communicated with him either. In the case of Job, Satan did interact in the physical world with God's permission, including inciting a group of human Sabans to attack, including weather...

By the way... there is an interesting article on the Gospel Coalition on Mormonism today
http://www.thegospelcoalition.org/article/9-things-you-should-know-about-mormonism


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## earl40

Tirian said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> 
> It was not by any direct communication from the devil for this is the superstitious aspect I am speaking against which many Christians believe.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So you're saying the devil did not communicate directly with Smith - how do you know this?
Click to expand...


I am tempted to say I am smart but if I did it is because of the fall and not by any direct temptation by satan.


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## earl40

[video=youtube;6Ejga4kJUts]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Ejga4kJUts[/video]


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## Tirian

earl40 said:


> Originally Posted by Tirian
> Originally Posted by earl40
> It was not by any direct communication from the devil for this is the superstitious aspect I am speaking against which many Christians believe.
> So you're saying the devil did not communicate directly with Smith - how do you know this?
> I am tempted to say I am smart but if I did it is because of the fall and not by any direct temptation by satan.



So Satan and presumably other demons are unable to manifest themselves in any way to communicate directly with people now other than through having caused a fallen state? Sounds like Satan is a concept rather than a being then.


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## Mushroom

Smith was a scam artist convicted of swindling uneducated and superstitious farmers by claiming to use a 'seeing glass' to find buried treasure. I think he just expanded on his scheme. What better connivance for a grifter than to come up with a whole new religion wherein he is the 'prophet', and he gets all the money and women? I think that happened at least once before....


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## earl40

Tirian said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> 
> Originally Posted by Tirian
> Originally Posted by earl40
> It was not by any direct communication from the devil for this is the superstitious aspect I am speaking against which many Christians believe.
> So you're saying the devil did not communicate directly with Smith - how do you know this?
> I am tempted to say I am smart but if I did it is because of the fall and not by any direct temptation by satan.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So Satan and presumably other demons are unable to manifest themselves in any way to communicate directly with people now other than through having caused a fallen state? Sounds like Satan is a concept rather than a being then.
Click to expand...


So what does satan sound, smell or feel like? Satan is real, invisible, and non tangible to our senses which are the only way we can experience anything _directly_. How he influences us is spoken of in scripture and the only two humans I know of that heard and an audible voice and saw him were Our Lord Jesus and Eve who were both without sin when they saw and heard him.

Maybe a list of attributes could help us all in seeing what satan cannot do.

#1. He cannot read minds. God can.
#2. He can only be more than one place at a time. God can.
#3. He cannot foretell the future in of himself. God can.
#4. He cannot turn water into wine. God can.

All blame for our current sin falls on us as it is written. "14 But each person is tempted when he is lured and enticed by his _own_ desire." No mention of any devil here though the fall explains perfectly why we are sinners as a result of the imputation of the guilt of Adam. I remember Walter Martin said..."there is enough evil within us all to send the world to hell". No need to use any excuse for our sin other than the one who commits said sin.


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## earl40

Mushroom said:


> I think that happened at least once before....



Also after...just turn on the TV.


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## MichaelNZ

Earl, do you believe that Muhammad also just made up his vision of "Gabriel", rather than having a demonically-inspired vision?


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## earl40

MichaelNZ said:


> Earl, do you believe that Muhammad also just made up his vision of "Gabriel", rather than having a demonically-inspired vision?



Yes I do believe such. Though I also believe it came as a result of satans work thus was "demonically-inspired". The fall was very very bad and many people are still following the devil. It is superstition that abounds in our churches that thinks Muhammed saw any angel other than the the delusions of his mind.


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## Tirian

Earl, so Satan and demons are completely cut off from mankind except through the ongoing consequences of the fall? So they are more of a theme rather than entity? When Paul tells the Corinthians not to fellowship with demons he's talking in the abstract about continuing on in the "spirit" of the fall?


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## One Little Nail

> I would like to post this here from another relevant thread http://www.puritanboard.com/f64/demons-know-future-84046/



Earl she had a spirit of divination, which is meant that a devil was in her & gave her these powers, whatever or however they worked is not the point, it was not her own human spirit, it was a fallen angel which is what devils are, they are devils in name & devils in nature, that gave her this ability, your post confirms what I was suspecting from the other thread http://www.puritanboard.com/f64/christian-response-ouija-boards-84031/ that you deny the existence of evil supernaturalism by calling it superstition, this is a form of Liberalism. 

OK, sure you've said that the Devil is real, but you seem to deny that he/she can or does exert spiritual power over mankind & seem to equate human sinfulness with being all that Satan's power consists of, human sinfulness is human sinfulness & evil satanic supernaturalism or spiritualism is just that a spiritual power or force which satan can exert, as God wills, over mankind, this is not superstition as you suppose.


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## earl40

Tirian said:


> Earl, so Satan and demons are completely cut off from mankind except through the ongoing consequences of the fall? So they are more of a theme rather than entity? When Paul tells the Corinthians not to fellowship with demons he's talking in the abstract about continuing on in the "spirit" of the fall?



Here Paul is simply stating that we are in fellowship with God or devils.


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## earl40

One Little Nail said:


> I would like to post this here from another relevant thread http://www.puritanboard.com/f64/demons-know-future-84046/
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Earl she had a spirit of divination, which is meant that a devil was in her & gave her these powers, whatever or however they worked is not the point, it was not her own human spirit, it was a fallen angel which is what devils are, they are devils in name & devils in nature, that gave her this ability, your post confirms what I was suspecting from the other thread http://www.puritanboard.com/f64/christian-response-ouija-boards-84031/ that you deny the existence of evil supernaturalism by calling it superstition, this is a form of Liberalism.
> 
> OK, sure you've said that the Devil is real, but you seem to deny that he/she can or does exert spiritual power over mankind & seem to equate human sinfulness with being all that Satan's power consists of, human sinfulness is human sinfulness & evil satanic supernaturalism or spiritualism is just that a spiritual power or force which satan can exert, as God wills, over mankind, this is not superstition as you suppose.
Click to expand...


I understand where you are coming from. I simply see that point of view as being superstitious that tears apart our moral responsibility towards God. No %10 devil and %90 me.


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## whirlingmerc

Either way, a fleshy puffed up mind ran with the ideas that would derail the faith of many. But what do you make of the crazed man of the Gadareens who was not able to be held by chains and even had wounds from trying to stone himself? at the risk of taking a messy swine dive into speculation...


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## RamistThomist

> whirlingmerc said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what do you make of the crazed man of the Gadareens who was not able to be held by chains and even had wounds from trying to stone himself? Merely town folks superstitions or more?
> 
> 
> 
> I'd call that infallible revelation, recorded in a unique time of redemptive history, preserved for us to understand the power of King Jesus Christ over all things. I have no such proof from any other extra-Scriptural experiences, mine or otherwise.
Click to expand...


But wasn't the unique thing about the Gadarean that he was simply super strong? If so, this doesn't seem to be primarily a case of having "extra revelation." It seems he had demonic strength.


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## whirlingmerc

1 Kings 22 and 2 Chronicles, Chapter 18. describes 400 false prophets misleading a King and a lying spirit appearing before God getting permission. I don't know how the lying spirit handed off his deception.... through thoughts or other... it doesn't say

"...I saw the Lord sitting on his throne, and all the host of heaven standing on his right hand and on his left. 19 And the Lord said, ‘Who will entice Ahab the king of Israel, that he may go up and fall at Ramoth-gilead?’ And one said one thing, and another said another. 20 Then a spirit came forward and stood before the Lord, saying, ‘I will entice him.’ And the Lord said to him, ‘By what means?’ 21 And he said, ‘I will go out, and will be a lying spirit in the mouth of all his prophets.’ And he said, ‘You are to entice him, and you shall succeed; go out and do so.’ 22 Now therefore behold, the Lord has put a lying spirit in the mouth of these your prophets. The Lord has declared disaster concerning you....”

Romans 16:20 "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you."
I lean toward the view that the serpent head is crushed as the gospel is carried by beautiful feet bringing good news


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