# TAG for the Sovereignty of God



## RamistThomist (Jul 15, 2005)

Hypothetical (actually is real) conversation between Calvinist and Arminian:

Calvinist: Your response to scriptures that disagree with you is "well, it doesn't really mean that." 

Arminian: "Well, you do the same thing." 

Calvinist: Perhaps I do, but I have a consistent worldview to back it up. Within my worldview (read: framework, system of thought, etc) scriptures cohere. I see a verse that speaks of man's responsibility and take it to heart. I have never denied human responsibility to the call of the gospel. I realize--that my worldview--Reformed or Covenantal Christianity--allows for the preconditions of a choice to take place. You very quickly say that man has free choice (which is morally, scientifically, etc impossible; all sorts of factors go into a man's choosing that render neutral or free choice impossible. I mentioned this at first; you saw it; didn't like it and disregarded it.). Very well, what must be true before that free choice can take place? In other words, what are the preconditions for moral action?

The Westminster Divines so masterfully answered this question,

II. Although, in relation to the foreknowledge and decree of God, the first Cause, all things come to pass immutably, and infallibly;[8] yet, by the same providence, He orders them to fall out, according to the nature of second causes, either necessarily, freely, or contingently.[9]

In other words, from God's perspective all things are foreordained and happen immutably. From our perspective our choices are real and do not appear to be forced. As the Divines later state in chapter III, paragraph i,



I. God from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of His own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass;[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

So, what are the precondition(s) of moral choices? God's sovereignty. Because God is Sovereign and the source of all meaning, he establishes meaning to our choices whereby making us secondary causes.

[Edited on 7--16-05 by Draught Horse]


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## RamistThomist (Jul 15, 2005)

I meant to title this "Transcendentally arguing for the moral choices of humans established by the doctrine of the sovereignty of God." But that would have been too long. In other words, what are the _preconditions_ necessary for human action?


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 16, 2005)

One precondition is desire. Which requires a nature to produce desire. Our nature will ultimately determine the choices we make. And what nature does sinful man have before God changes him? (Just a little help from Edwards)


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