# Are Bible Presbyterians dispensational? Discuss.



## vchia (May 6, 2016)

Dear brethren-in-Christ,

As one who had previously studied in a Bible Presbyterian seminary in Singapore, and is currently worshipping in a Reformed Baptist church, this is my assessment of the Bible Presbyterian theological-hermeneutical grid.

http://vivavoxdei.blogspot.sg/2016/03/publication-of-manuscript-written-in.html

I thank you all in advance for your inputs and thoughts.

Are Bible Presbyterians dispensational in your opinion?

Sincerely,
Vincent


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## arapahoepark (May 6, 2016)

They shouldn't be. Western Reformed Seminary isn't and that's their own seminary. As far as I know there is no pretrib rapture. A good many of them are historic premills but don't confuse that with dispensationalism where ethnic Israel is the be all and end all.
I have not read your manuscript though, its lengthy but I'll get around to it.


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## Edward (May 6, 2016)

Historically, the Bible Presbyterian church split from the OPC when they got infected with Scofield dispensationalism and fundamentalism. 

Probably need to sort out what you mean by Bible Presbyterian Church. It's been sliced and diced. As for the American version:

Sounds like some of them still are:

" Consistent with our pre-millennial and pre-tribulational position, we also hold that God still has a future plan of blessing for national Israel, distinct from the Church"
http://thebiblepresbyterianchurch.org/what-we-believe-a-summary/ 

They are a very minor player at this point. Wikipedia said 'less than 30' congregations, but I only counted 18 on this web site (which doesn't seem to include the one linked above). http://bpc.org/?page_id=167

The Singapore branch seems to have been true to its roots, as it looks like they splintered, as well. 

See Page 15 and Page 36 here for pre-mill influences in the Singapore BP church http://febc.edu.sg/assets/pdfs/febc_press/The Singapore B-P Church Story.pdf I couldn't locate anything about dispensationalism in that pdf.


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## VictorBravo (May 6, 2016)

I'll agree with Trent. For a long time premillenialism and dispensationalism were distinctives among the Bible Presbyterians. 

But the folks I know at WRS in Tacoma, Washington, now have a variety of eschatological views. Postmill was not unusual, and amill was common.

I don't know the circumstances in Singapore, though.

Edit to add: I didn't see Edward's post. That looks like a nice collection of BP history.


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## Gforce9 (May 7, 2016)

Edward said:


> Historically, the Bible Presbyterian church split from the OPC when they got infected with Scofield dispensationalism and fundamentalism.
> 
> Probably need to sort out what you mean by Bible Presbyterian Church. It's been sliced and diced. As for the American version:
> 
> ...



Nice work, Edward....


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (May 7, 2016)

Why don't you ask for some input from one of the Bible Presbyterian ministers?


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## arapahoepark (May 7, 2016)

Rev. Todd Ruddell said:


> Why don't you ask for some input from one of the Bible Presbyterian ministers?



Here's a blog from a Bible Presbyterian Minister, read the comment I left and his response.
https://prussic.wordpress.com/2013/02/28/three-aspects-of-kingdom-timing/


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## vchia (May 7, 2016)

Thank you for your precious inputs, especially Trent, Edward, Victor and Rev Ruddell.

I am very familiar with Bible Presbyterians in Singapore. That is why I wrote my assessment of BP in Singapore. See
*https://www.scribd.com/doc/305974569/Bible-Presbyterianism-A-Need-For-Redefinition*

But I am also keen to know the BP's system in other parts of the world.


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## yeutter (May 7, 2016)

Thank you for bringing your examination of the Bible Presbyterian Church in Singapore to our attention. We have encountered Bible Presbyterian Churches that were planted by Life Bible Presbyterian Church in Singapore in northern Thailand. The men, who planted these mission works, seem to stand in the tradition of Dr. Oliver Buswell 

I understand their is serious division within Bible Presbyterian ranks in Singapore. Thank you for helping to understand this group


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## Covenant Joel (May 9, 2016)

In college I visited a BP church in Florida. Wonderful people, but definitely dispensational. They were using Larkin's dispensational charts in Sunday School. But I also know of other BPs who were definitely not. So I'm not sure how that all worked out denominationally, but there were at least some dispensational elements there.


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## Edward (May 9, 2016)

You might find this resource helpful; although it does not directly answer your question, it might lead you to other resources. 
http://pcahistory.org/findingaids/rpces/history/07.pdf


My general understanding is that the Bible Presbyterians were pre-mill, that in that era (1930s) Scofieldism dominated pre-mill thought, and while it may have been that not all Bible Presbyterians were Dispensational, dispensationalism in general, and Scofieldism in particular, had a strong influence on the young denomination and led many astray. It appears that they did make changes to the Westminster Standards to reflect their errant beliefs.


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## JTDyck (May 9, 2016)

Greetings,

I haven't posted here in quite a while, but thought perhaps I should weigh in on this topic.

We did pass the following resolution at our 60th Synod in 1996:



> RESOLUTION 60:6
> RESOLUTION CONCERNING DISPENSATIONALISM
> 
> Dispensationalism is a term properly applied to all doctrinal systems which assert that there is one
> ...



Although our resolutions are not binding from one synod to another, this does show the mind and resolve of the majority of our men in 1996. 

There is no denying that dispensationalism was a major influence in our history and it has been something that we have been accused of quite often. I understand that Carl McIntire always insisted upon a continuity between the Old and New Testaments, and denied being dispensational, at least in a certain sense.


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## Edward (May 9, 2016)

JTDyck said:


> Although our resolutions are not binding from one synod to another, this does show the mind and resolve of the majority of our men in 1996.
> 
> There is no denying that dispensationalism was a major influence in our history and it has been something that we have been accused of quite often. I understand that Carl McIntire always insisted upon a continuity between the Old and New Testaments, and denied being dispensational, at least in a certain sense.



Thanks for giving this update on the current state of your synod (the online resolutions just go back to 1999 here http://bpc.org/?page_id=167 and I would have been unlikely to have found that on my own. )

Am I correct in my understanding that Faith Presbytery, Bible Presbyterian Church is Dispensational in orientation? It does appear that they split off well after the 1996 resolution which would suggest perhaps not, but this from their Collingswood church seems to suggest that they are firmly dispensational: "Consistent with our pre-millennial and pre-tribulational position, we also hold that God still has a future plan of blessing for national Israel, distinct from the Church." http://thebiblepresbyterianchurch.org/what-we-believe-a-summary/


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## JTDyck (May 9, 2016)

Edward said:


> Thanks for giving this update on the current state of your synod (the online resolutions just go back to 1999 here http://bpc.org/?page_id=167 and I would have been unlikely to have found that on my own. )



A number of years ago Synod decided to post only the resolutions of the current year. The exception to that rule was the Memorial Resolutions that continue to be posted (at least as far back as 1999 for now). So this is effect of that decision, and the reason the resolution cannot be found on our website. 



Edward said:


> Am I correct in my understanding that Faith Presbytery, Bible Presbyterian Church is Dispensational in orientation? It does appear that they split off well after the 1996 resolution which would suggest perhaps not, but this from their Collingswood church seems to suggest that they are firmly dispensational: "Consistent with our pre-millennial and pre-tribulational position, we also hold that God still has a future plan of blessing for national Israel, distinct from the Church." http://thebiblepresbyterianchurch.org/what-we-believe-a-summary/



The churches of Faith Presbytery left just before our 2008 Synod, essentially over their disapproval of our corresponding relations with the OPC. As you pointed out, the website you refer to is an individual congregation and not necessarily representative of their Presbytery. As far as I know Faith Presbytery does not have a website to give information of their group as a whole.


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