# Doctor



## Wynteriii (Nov 20, 2012)

If one earns a religious doctorate degree that is from an unaccredited college, would one still call them "Dr."?


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## rbcbob (Nov 20, 2012)

Wynteriii said:


> If one earns a religious doctorate degree that is from an unaccredited college, would one still call them "Dr."?



Not to be fastidious, but why would one ask?


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## JohnGill (Nov 20, 2012)

Wynteriii said:


> If one earns a religious doctorate degree that is from an unaccredited college, would one still call them "Dr."?



If they did the work equivalent to an accredited college for their doctorate then I see no problem in it. TNARS isn't accredited, but I would call someone a "Dr." who received one from them simply because of the amount of work required to receive one and the mentorship program they have. Like a regular doctorate degree you are required to produce a new body of work. But without that qualification, and the demand for work equivalent to your typical doctorate degree, I wouldn't because in some "schools" they give out doctorates for works that wouldn't past muster at an accredited college, or give out doctorates for something already written. For me the standard is simple, if their degree wouldn't pass muster at an accredited college, then they're not a "doctor".


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## Wynteriii (Nov 20, 2012)

I was just curious the head of my association has an accredited doctorate but we still call him by his first name. I spent awhile thinking about the different views on the topic came up to the question I previously asked.

If I earned a Doctorate, I would try to get it at TNARS or Tennesse Bible College. Don't hold me to the latter, I need to check their statement of faith. I believe Ligonier Ministries also offers a DoD.

I have also seen Doctorate programs that are called "non-thesis/dissertation". I stay clear of those.


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## JohnGill (Nov 20, 2012)

Wynteriii said:


> I was just curious the head of my association has an accredited doctorate but we still call him by his first name. I spent awhile thinking about the different views on the topic came up to the question I previously asked.
> 
> If I earned a Doctorate, I would try to get it at TNARS or Tennesse Bible College. Don't hold me to the latter, I need to check their statement of faith. I believe Ligonier Ministries also offers a DoD.
> 
> I have also seen Doctorate programs that are called "non-thesis/dissertation". I stay clear of those.



I'd recommend TNARS. It has a similar workload and course structure to accredited colleges and apparently PRTS and some others that are accredited accept some of their courses. To me that says a lot. It's not just the non-thesis "schools" you have to avoid, but those who offer doctorates for non-original work or those who don't require dissertation level work. There are quite a few of these in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist circles and even some in Calvinistic circles.


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## Edward (Nov 20, 2012)

Since I've run across a fair number of preachers who've gotten 'honorary doctorates' and who use term 'doctor', I see no problem with a pastor with an earned doctorate from an unaccredited institution using 'doctor'. On the other hand, I've only run across one guy with an earned Juris Doctor that tried to self-identify as 'doctor'.


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## Zach (Nov 20, 2012)

If T.D. Jakes can call himself a Bishop then you can probably call yourself whatever you want...


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## matt01 (Nov 20, 2012)

You should make sure it is legal in your jurisdiction; it appears to be illegal in some locations... I didn't read the whole page, so maybe I missed something:



> In New Jersey (and in several other states), an even stricter standard applies to the appending of titles or letters to one's name which indicate the attainment of a higher education degree; i.e., associates, bachelors, masters, or doctorate. Doing so is prohibited in New Jersey unless the degree was conferred by: a New Jersey licensed college or university, a regionally accredited institution (or one which has attained candidate status for regional accreditation) and is licensed in another state, or a foreign institution of higher education that is recognized by the appropriate body in the particular country provided that the institution’s requirements for awarding degrees are generally equivalent to those accepted in the U.S. by an accrediting body recognized by the U.S. Secretary of Education.




Accreditation & Diploma Mill Resources


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## Gforce9 (Nov 20, 2012)

Zach said:


> If T.D. Jakes can call himself a Bishop then you can probably call yourself whatever you want...



Hahahahahahaha..........


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## VictorBravo (Nov 20, 2012)

Edward said:


> I've only run across one guy with an earned Juris Doctor that tried to self-identify as 'doctor'.



Wasn't me, I hope....


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## Edward (Nov 20, 2012)

VictorBravo said:


> Wasn't me, I hope.



No, it wouldn't have been in your part of the world. As best I recollect, it was Georgia. Could have been as far west as Texas, however.


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## Jake (Nov 20, 2012)

Edward said:


> On the other hand, I've only run across one guy with an earned Juris Doctor that tried to self-identify as 'doctor'.



It's not supper common, but is this wrong? It is a doctoral level degree. For example, see this article: YourABA: Are there any doctors or associates in the house?


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## OPC'n (Nov 20, 2012)

hmmmm off the top of my head i would say no. in my field of work if you didn't go to an accredited school you are SOL....


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## Edward (Nov 20, 2012)

Jake said:


> For example, see this article:



Good find.


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## Randy in Tulsa (Nov 20, 2012)

Why care? Matthew 23:8-12. Isn't it ironic that, in our time, it is the lawyers who don't care about the title?


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## Jake (Nov 20, 2012)

Wynteriii said:


> If one earns a religious doctorate degree that is from an unaccredited college, would one still call them "Dr."?



I think it depends on the context. For example, in Reformed circles, there are many non-accredited institutions that are respected highly, such as Greenville and Puritan seminaries. I think a reformed academic working in a reformed setting would be completely justified as calling himself doctor if he had a Doctor of Theology from Greenville. 

It depends a lot of on the institution and how people wish to refer to themselves. For example, R. C. Sproul often still refers to himself as Drs. even though he got a Ph.D from Whitfield. I have noted here before how in some of his books he lists his education at Whitfield and some not. Another example is James White, who commonly refers to himself as Dr. White, although his degree is from a less respected institution.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 20, 2012)

"They call me Dr. Love"

I don't think Gene Simmons has a PhD.


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## Gforce9 (Nov 21, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> "They call me Dr. Love"
> 
> I don't think Gene Simmons has a PhD.



Hilarious........this thread just went off the cliff........................................


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## Unoriginalname (Nov 21, 2012)

Jake said:


> I think it depends on the context. For example, in Reformed circles, there are many non-accredited institutions that are respected highly, such as Greenville and Puritan seminaries. I think a reformed academic working in a reformed setting would be completely justified as calling himself doctor if he had a Doctor of Theology from Greenville.
> 
> It depends a lot of on the institution and how people wish to refer to themselves. For example, R. C. Sproul often still refers to himself as Drs. even though he got a Ph.D from Whitfield. I have noted here before how in some of his books he lists his education at Whitfield and some not. Another example is James White, who commonly refers to himself as Dr. White, although his degree is from a less respected institution.


That is probably the crux of it. If you have done the theological work and it is recognized by the church at large (or at least the portion of the church you interact in) I see nothing wrong with calling yourself a doctor. I really do not care if a secular overseer accredits an institution if it is already accepted by orthodox denominations.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 21, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> "They call me Dr. Love"
> 
> I don't think Gene Simmons has a PhD.



Oh... I forgot. He's a distinguished graduate of the School of Rock.

Is that place accredited?


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## JohnGill (Nov 21, 2012)

SolaScriptura said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > "They call me Dr. Love"
> ...



The question is, are any other schools accredited by the School of Rock?


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## Bill The Baptist (Nov 21, 2012)

Edward said:


> Since I've run across a fair number of preachers who've gotten 'honorary doctorates' and who use term 'doctor', I see no problem with a pastor with an earned doctorate from an unaccredited institution using 'doctor'. On the other hand, I've only run across one guy with an earned Juris Doctor that tried to self-identify as 'doctor'.



I personally think it is tacky to call yourself doctor regardless of how you acquired your degree. That being said, I think it is doubly tacky to call yourself doctor if the degree was honorary or from a diploma mill.


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 21, 2012)

Bill The Baptist said:


> I personally think it is tacky to call yourself doctor regardless of how you acquired your degree. That being said, I think it is doubly tacky to call yourself doctor if the degree was honorary or from a diploma mill.


Bill,
that's just because you haven't got one yet.

Just wee wait; we'll all be required to address thee with thy hoity-toityness, and scrumptious voluptuousness when thou gettest thy D.Hons. in Salesemanshipp.


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## Gforce9 (Nov 21, 2012)

Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard.....wooo wooo wooooo............


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## Zach (Nov 21, 2012)

This thread is so over.


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## Bill The Baptist (Nov 21, 2012)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > I personally think it is tacky to call yourself doctor regardless of how you acquired your degree. That being said, I think it is doubly tacky to call yourself doctor if the degree was honorary or from a diploma mill.
> ...



 I am holding out for an honorary Doctor of Letters. Then I will be a true expert in the alphabet


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## JohnGill (Nov 21, 2012)

Gforce9 said:


> Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard.....wooo wooo wooooo............



I hear they hired the firm of Dewey, Cheatum, & Howe.


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## Gforce9 (Nov 21, 2012)

JohnGill said:


> Gforce9 said:
> 
> 
> > Calling Dr. Howard, Dr. Fine, Dr. Howard.....wooo wooo wooooo............
> ...



Just when it looked like the train had completely derailed, a man from Alaska pulled out his Acme rocket-powered roller skates and averted certain doom. Now we are back to lawyers and the proper term of juris doctor. The hand-off goes to Vic in Idaho.......................


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## ProtestantBankie (Nov 21, 2012)

THE scripture doth hold out the name and title of teacher, as well as of the pastor.

Who is also a minister of the word, as well as the pastor, and hath power of administration of the sacraments.

A teacher, or doctor, is of most excellent use in schools and universities; as of old in the schools of the prophets, and at Jerusalem, where Gamaliel and others taught as doctors.


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## Bill The Baptist (Nov 21, 2012)

ProtestantBankie said:


> THE scripture doth hold out the name and title of teacher, as well as of the pastor.
> 
> Who is also a minister of the word, as well as the pastor, and hath power of administration of the sacraments.
> 
> A teacher, or doctor, is of most excellent use in schools and universities; as of old in the schools of the prophets, and at Jerusalem, where Gamaliel and others taught as doctors.



"Then Jesus spoke to the multitudes and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do. For they bind heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers. But all their works they do to be seen by men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments. They love the best places at feasts, the best seats in the synagogues, greetings in the marketplaces, and to be called by men, ‘Rabbi, Rabbi.’ But you, do not be called ‘Rabbi’; for One is your Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brethren. Do not call anyone on earth your father; for One is your Father, He who is in heaven. And do not be called teachers; for One is your Teacher, the Christ. But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant. And whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted" -Matthew 23:1-12


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## VictorBravo (Nov 21, 2012)

Gforce9 said:


> The hand-off goes to Vic in Idaho.......................



I'm laying low in the Scripture quote department in light of Luke 11:46, though I can claim Zenas as a biblical buddy....

BTW, I'm licensed in Idaho and Washington, go to church in Idaho, but I live in that recently sorry state of Washington about 4 miles from Idaho.


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## Leslie (Nov 22, 2012)

In my humble opinion, any and all honorary titles are forbidden amongst Christian siblings. I have an M.D. from University of Wisconsin, but prefer to be addressed as "Mary" by Christian siblings. However, if I meet someone in my professional capacity who happens to be a Christian, I may introduce myself as "doctor" just in order to define my relationship to him for the moment. But if and when he and I worship together, it's "Mary".


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## AThornquist (Nov 22, 2012)

So much of what is "accredited" these days is garbage anyways. Why would I care if someone went to a reputable non-accredited school?


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