# Minimal Beliefs?



## Rong (Mar 12, 2013)

I actually joined the forum in order to ask this question. I hope I'm posting it in an appropriate section of the forum.

Some time ago I was listening to a podcast (I believe it may have been Piper) who was discussing a conversation between two well known authors of Christian books but who came from differing theological perspectives. One author asked the other (I believe it was) 3 very succinct questions regarding the others belief. The other gentleman replied in the affirmative to each of the questions at the end of which the first gentleman replied, "then I greet you as a fellow brother in our Lord Jesus Christ". If you have a clue who I'm referring to in this exchange or know the questions asked, I'd be most appreciative to know.

If not....

Can you boil down to a minimum of 3 questions what someone would have to answer in the affirmative in order for you to accept them as a fellow brother or sister in Christ? I'm trying to achieve 2 things by this exercise. 

Firstly, I'm trying to establish common ground in order to further conversations and not debates.
Secondly, I'm really am trying to define the absolute minimal understanding/acceptance/position of someone and 'still' be able to call them a Christian.


I look forward to reading your responses on this matter.


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## Christopher88 (Mar 12, 2013)

Is Jesus the second person on the Trinity? 
Did Jesus rise from the grave on the third day for the elect?(Though that last word will give them a fit) 
Do you worship and love the Lord? 

Yes there are other things I would like to ask, but by scripture doctrine does not save us, but it does strengthen us. I would be very cautious to allow a Methodist in my inner circle as while I declare him a brother, I also declare him dangerous to the truth of scripture. And with out any doubt in my mind, I do not declare the the Roman church is the catholic church. The Roman Church is apostate and is not a true church.


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## jwithnell (Mar 12, 2013)

We can never fully know the heart of another person. Someone who expresses a really weak theology may actual be in Christ while a WCF-quoting stalwart may not be. 

I don't ask specific questions, but in the course of a conversation, I listen for a few things. Who or what is this person trusting for salvation? How does this person view the authority of scripture? Someone may be in Christ while having an erroneously weak view of the scripture, but it sure is hard to discuss anything when someone does not play by the same rulebook. All else being considered, a high view of the church also tends to denote a believer: I find it hard to believe that someone embraces Christ but rejects his bride.


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## py3ak (Mar 12, 2013)

Mike, I think the conversation you have in mind is probably Charles Simeon's interaction with John Wesley. It is conveniently transcribed here:

Exiled Preacher: This is all my Calvinism


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## Rong (Mar 12, 2013)

Folks, thank you very much. Ruben - spot on! That's exactly the conversation I've been trying to find - thank you!

Still working on it myself but without looking at Simeon's questions:
1) Do you believe that Jesus was both 100% man and 100% God?
2) Do you believe that you are a sinner in need of a savior?
3) Do you believe that Jesus died as a propitiation for your sin?

I think if someone can affirm those 3 we're past some of the biggest hurdles. Oh certainly that just get's us across the threshold but I at least see us as being in the same room together. I'd still love to hear from anyone else on this matter. 

Thanks again. Great way to start off with my first post to this board!


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## William Le (Mar 12, 2013)

This isn't 3 questions, and I'm of the opinion that we should be careful trying to "innovate" in this area... as tempting as it might be.

Historically, if Christians confessed the Apostle's Creed, that meant that they were Christians. See: Apostles' Creed.


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 12, 2013)

Given humanity's demonstrated proclivity to jettison anything that isn't considered essential, I am suspicious of trying to boil it down to as "little as possible" lest I be seen as implicitly taking away from the importance of other doctrines.

That said, the bottom line is that each of us actually does operate with a set of core convictions that we see as the base of what it means to be a Christian. In my work, where I minister alongside chaplains who may or may not be Christians, here are the positions I have in my own mind by which I acknowledge someone's religion to be at least "basically Christian."

1. Does the person affirm an orthodox understanding of the Trinity?
2. Does the person affirm an orthodox understanding of Christology?
3. Does the person affirm that we are saved by grace alone through faith alone?


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## Herald (Mar 12, 2013)

The litmus test of questions will change depending on who is giving the answer. Let me approach this from a different direction. I am as concerned about behavior as I am about confessing certain truths (Mat. 5:16; Eph. 4:1). Text book answers can be learned (Jude), but it is much harder (although not impossible) to mimic living a life of faith.


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## Miss Marple (Mar 12, 2013)

Do you believe the Bible is the whole only true word of God?

Do you know what the Bible says about who Jesus is?

Is Jesus Lord?

--- any other issues could be "solved" by just showing/applying Biblical truth ----


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## chuckd (Mar 12, 2013)

Though we need creeds and confessions to establish who God is and his work, we should not forget that we believe in a person, not an idea. I know the OP is more directed at what exactly must we believe about him, I thought I would throw that out there.


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## Scott1 (Mar 12, 2013)

Do you believe in Jesus Christ as your personal Savior and Lord?

On what basis?


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## Rich Koster (Mar 12, 2013)

Herald said:


> The litmus test of questions will change depending on who is giving the answer. Let me approach this from a different direction. I am as concerned about behavior as I am about confessing certain truths (Mat. 5:16; Eph. 4:1). Text book answers can be learned (Jude), but it is much harder (although not impossible) to mimic living a life of faith.



Agreed. Formulas, formalism and works models, on their own, are not fireproof evidence of good fruit.


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## MW (Mar 12, 2013)

What is the intent of recognising "minimal beliefs?" Is it simply to show the difference between Christianity and a false religion or a cult? Then yes, there are basic beliefs like those contained in the Apostles' Creed which will show that difference. Or is the purpose to show true Christianity in contrast to false Christianity? Then obviously there will be more "minimal beliefs," such as those found in the Reformed Confessions and Catechisms. The problem with resting on "minimal beliefs" is that no person stands still. Beliefs unite together into a system and manifest themselves in practice. Sometimes these systems and practices are inimical to what we consider "minimal beliefs." The apostle credits the faith of the Galatians to the extent that he spoke to them of "our Lord Jesus Christ," Gal. 1:3; but the direction in which they took that belief was counteractive to its meaning, verse 6, and therefore called for opposition. It is the duty of believers to come under the oversight of ministers and elders, and the overseers must watch over believers and give account for their maturing in the faith. Taking that into consideration it becomes necessary not only to examine the minimal beliefs of individuals but also those of their churches.


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## Rong (Mar 13, 2013)

I knew I was opening a can of worms with my question but I do appreciate the responses everyone has shared. Thank you.


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## sevenzedek (Mar 13, 2013)

Miss Marple said:


> Do you believe the Bible is the whole only true word of God?
> 
> Do you know what the Bible says about who Jesus is?
> 
> ...



My neighbor, who is _not_ Jehovah's Witness, would say yes to all these questions and we still can't agree about what the Bible says.


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## sevenzedek (Mar 13, 2013)

When we joined the OPC this past Lord's Day, we were asked five questions. Since we were received into membership by reaffirmation of faith, these questions seem like a good starting place to understand what is necessary for salvation.

Of course, there seems to be bound up in these questions a sense of ecclesiastical authority and Christian accountability as were becoming members of an locally established church. So I might not take this list as revealing what is absolutely necessary for salvation.

For instance, a person may not be a member of a locally established church. Consider the thief on the cross. Or, consider a home-church guy who has his ecclesiology wrong. However, not being a member of locally established church *may* be an indication that someone is dangerously close to being found unworthy of the title _Christian_ since there is no salvation apart from the church of Christ.

So, as far as a healthy profession of faith is concerned, I would be concerned for anyone who not, at the very least, agree with these five questions. And I would seriously wonder if a person were really a true Christian if they did not agree to what these questions ask regarding the nature of God, the work he did, and their sinfulness before him.



> (1) Do you believe the Bible, consisting of the Old and New Testaments, to be the Word of God, and its doctrine of salvation to be the perfect and only true doctrine of salvation?
> (2) Do you believe in one living and true God, in whom eternally there are three distinct persons—God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit—who are the same in being and equal in power and glory, and that Jesus Christ is God the Son, come in the flesh?
> (3) Do you confess that because of your sinfulness you abhor and humble yourself before God, that you repent of your sin, and that you trust for salvation not in yourself but in Jesus Christ alone?
> (4) Do you acknowledge Jesus Christ as your sovereign Lord, and do you promise that, in reliance on the grace of God, you will serve him with all that is in you, forsake the world, resist the devil, put to death your sinful deeds and desires, and lead a godly life?
> (5) Do you promise to participate faithfully in this church's worship and service, to submit in the Lord to its government, and to heed its discipline, even in case you should be found delinquent in doctrine or life?


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