# John 10:27-30



## Javilo (Sep 9, 2008)

Is John 10:27-30 the ultimate proof text for Calvinism or are there others
that are even stronger? I am looking for one that an Arminian couldn't refute.
This one seems to leave no doubt but others?


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## ColdSilverMoon (Sep 9, 2008)

Plenty of verses strongly affirm Calvinism, but one of the most prominent to me is Ephesians 1...


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Sep 9, 2008)

Javilo said:


> Is John 10:27-30 the ultimate proof text for Calvinism or are there others
> that are even stronger? I am looking for one that an Arminian couldn't refute.
> This one seems to leave no doubt but others?




The Arminians will *attempt* to refute even the clearest of verses. Of course Arminianism can not actually disprove our doctrines, but they will attempt to alter and twist anything that the Calvinist would advance as "proof". 

 Proof texts, often prove very little apart from the work of the Holy Spirit.


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## JohnGill (Sep 9, 2008)

Javilo said:


> Is John 10:27-30 the ultimate proof text for Calvinism or are there others
> that are even stronger? I am looking for one that an Arminian couldn't refute.
> This one seems to leave no doubt but others?



Romans 10:13-17; Mt 13:13-15; Heb 11:6; Rom 3:10-12; Acts 16:14

Rom 10:13-17 to Rom 3:10-12 I nicknamed "The Circle of Death" for a Wednesday night class.


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## Iconoclast (Sep 9, 2008)

> 37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
> 
> 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
> 
> ...





> 28And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
> 
> 29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
> 
> ...





> 9But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
> 
> 10For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.
> 
> ...


 The Confessions of faith offer a wide range of verses similar to these ,and the previous verses mentioned in this thread. The doctrine is not really based on a proof text, but rather it is the whole flow of God's redemptive purpose made known to the church;


> 9And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:
> 
> 10To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,
> 
> 11According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:


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## moral necessity (Sep 9, 2008)

How about John 1:12,13. " But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God."

Blessings!


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## Spinningplates2 (Oct 23, 2008)

If you have the time and a patient "Free Willy" you will only need a Nave's Topical index. Simply look up the word, election, and have them start reading. If they are still not ready to accept Calvinism then God has not opened their eyes, ears, or heart. I am sure you know but it always is a good reminder that no person can prove this doctrine to another.


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