# simple FV definition



## jjraby (Apr 26, 2010)

I am sure this has been discussed before, but can someone please give me a simple definition on what Federal Vision Theology says. I know its distinctive have something to do with Baptism, but i can't figure it out.


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## ac7k (Apr 26, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Well, you see, there's a sense in which....


 

Haha... 

However I am also new to Reformed Theology... and I too would like a good definition of FV... So despite the worms... Please help me expand my mind.


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## Scott1 (Apr 26, 2010)

It is a confusing, competitive faction that, while always asserting that no one outside of it understands their position,

manages at best to confuse the gospel (justification by faith alone), at worst, to deny it.


Along, the way, they confuse commonly used reformed theology terms such as:

1) justification (saying there is objective vs. subjective justification, and even a "full and final verdict" of it)
2) visible church (saying everyone in it really has all saving benefits.. but not really)
3) union with Christ (saying we are saved by this on one hand... but saying on the other these are only outward or non-saving benefits)
4) imputation of Christ's righteousness (the most common position seems to be they "are not certain," whether Christ's righteousness is imputed to the elect.)
5) trying to describe what they hold about baptism... is an abject impossibility.


I'm afraid that though there are well-meaning people who get caught up in it, after several years of this, its fruit seems most to be dissension, (—Synonyms discord, disagreement, schism, split, friction),

and an undermining of our assurance in Christ.


An excellent resource on understanding this is the PCA Study Report. You might find especially helpful the nine points toward the end which describes ways it is out of accord with confessed theology.

http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/07-fvreport.pdf


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## Prufrock (Apr 26, 2010)

Jeremy, I'm going to step out and predict that you will not get too many *really* useful answers to that request here, and that for one simple reason: a theological system or movement simply defies a short "definition." For instance, if I were to ask for a simple definition of Lutheran or Reformed or Papal theology, I'm sure the trickiness and even impossibility of such a request will quickly be made evident.

For a very short overall description, you might start with this short piece written by Dr. Scott Clark. You might also want to check out Guy Waters brief intro to the topic, _The Federal Vision and Covenant Theology: A Comparative Analysis_, which does provide some good information regarding what different "FV" teachers teach. Also, I would recommend checking out the literature that different Reformed denominations have put out on the topic, and also seminaries (e.g., MARS). These will all provide some good, basic information.


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## JumpingUpandDown (Apr 26, 2010)

a great post on this just popped up on my rss feed..

Lex et Euangelium: Critique of the Joint Federal Vision Profession's Denial of the Law/Gospel Distinction


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## jjraby (Apr 26, 2010)

Prufrock said:


> Jeremy, I'm going to step out and predict that you will not get too many *really* useful answers to that request here, and that for one simple reason: a theological system or movement simply defies a short "definition." For instance, if I were to ask for a simple definition of Lutheran or Reformed or Papal theology, I'm sure the trickiness and even impossibility of such a request will quickly be made evident.
> 
> For a very short overall description, you might start with this short piece written by Dr. Scott Clark. You might also want to check out Guy Waters brief intro to the topic, _The Federal Vision and Covenant Theology: A Comparative Analysis_, which does provide some good information regarding what different "FV" teachers teach. Also, I would recommend checking out the literature that different Reformed denominations have put out on the topic, and also seminaries (e.g., MARS). These will all provide some good, basic information.



thanks man, that link really helped.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Apr 27, 2010)

See also:
INDEX to Modern unbiblical challenges to trad ref covt theol

Westminster Seminary California clark

AMR


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