# Isaiah 9:6-7 - Eternal Father



## Mathetes (Jan 27, 2010)

There's something I was wondering about...Isaiah 9:6-7 has been used in the past as a prooftext of sorts for Christ's divinity. Yet one objection that I've heard is that one of the titles for the Messiah is that of "Eternal Father". Yet we of course know Jesus as "The Son". How would you go about reconciling these ideas?


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## MW (Jan 27, 2010)

"Son of God" is a personal property within the Godhead. "Everlasting Father" is a covenant relation to His people. At various times Christ is identified as the Father of His people, most notably in the parable of the Prodigal Son.


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## Mathetes (Jan 27, 2010)

So perhaps a "father figure" instead of a literal father?


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 28, 2010)

Depends on how you are defining "literal". It is a term that is often misapplied equivocatively, being used in multiple senses by the same writer in the same setting. Bad form.

Is Christ a real father to his people, or not? In the sense that human "fatherhood" is itself a mere reflection of what a father actually is? If we flip the whole idea about-face, we end up with the understanding that the divine quality of fatherhood is more "literal" than the simple notion of begetting. There are many physical fathers who are manifestly not "fatherlike."


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## Peairtach (Jan 28, 2010)

All human beings are the offspring of the One God Who, we now know more clearly in the the New Testament, is Father, Son and Holy Spirit (Acts 17) In Luke's genealogy Adam is called the Son of God (only an analogy of the eternal Sonship of the Son of God, of course) Mankind is now alienated from the Fatherhood of God by sin, of course.

Christ is the Son of God as eternally generated from the Father, and since the incarnation, as to His human nature.

Believers are the offspring of Christ and the Church. Christ is their Father and the Church is their Mother.

Christ came to reveal not only God the Son, but also God the Father and God the Holy Spirit. Only One Man rather than three was needed for this since God is one in His essence.

The One God is the Everlasting Father of Mankind and believers are restored to the place of sons of the One God by adoption in Christ. They also enter the fellowship of Intertrinitarian Life, so that God the Father is their Father, Christ is their Elder Brother and the Holy Spirit indwells them.

I don't know if this makes things any clearer or if my rambling thoughts on these matters need to be clarified by someone more qualified. Probably the latter. 

There are times in the Biblical revelation in which the One God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit  is called "Father", and therefore the Son of God Who has the Divine Essence, can also sometimes be apppropriately and without confusion be called Father.

The greater revelation of the Holy Triunity in the New Testament and the greater outpouring of the Spirit means that New Covenant believers can understand and enjoy the Intertrinitarian aspect of fellowship with God in a way that their Old Covenant brothers and sisters didn't.

Bruce and/or Matthew please correct/clarify these thoughts. I feel slightly out of depth.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 28, 2010)

I would only seek the answer to the question: _How_ does Jesus fulfill the title "Eternal Father"? In the context it is a title, not a description of the personal property of one of the Trinity.


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## MW (Jan 28, 2010)

As Bruce noted, "figure" and "literal" mean different things to different people. We must remember that all earthly speech about God is a figure in the sense that it is accommodated to our limited capacity. Nevertheless the reference point is understood to be literal. The Divine Life is in fact the archetype after which all earthly things are patterned, and therefore the earthly is more appropriately called the figure and the Divine Life is regarded as the literal.

How literal is "Everlasting Father?" As literal as "Prince of Peace." Christ genuinely reigns in the hearts and communities of His people and establishes peace in the midst as a result of His righteous rule. Likewise, Christ is literally the begetter of His people's spiritual life and the nurturer of their salvation. They are called His seed and the travail of His soul, Isa. 53:10, 11, and children the Lord hath given Him, Isa. 8:18; Heb. 2:13. As Richard has noted, Christ is their father and the church is their mother, in the sense that it is to these two parents that the lives of the elect are committed in the covenant of redemption. The elect remnant are specifically designated the seed of the church, Rev. 12:17.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Jan 29, 2010)

This is a bit of a tangent, but . . . I have heard that the Hebrew wording could also be rendered "Father of Eternity". Is there any credence to that claim?


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