# Paul Manata's Debate in April



## BrianLanier

Just wondering how many, if any, of you are going to it? I am going to try to attend along with some others.


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## matthew11v25

Where is at again? Anymore details or threads on this debate?


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## BrianLanier

This is what Paul emailed me:

April 22; 6:00pm NO ADMISSION



> Here's the format:
> 
> Resolution: Does The Christian God Exist?
> 
> Paul Manata versus Derek Sansone
> 
> Location: North City Presbyterian Chruch 11717 Poway Road, Poway CA 92064
> Time: 6:00 p.m.
> 
> Pastor Gene Cook: moderator
> 
> 
> I.
> Paul open-15 min
> Derek open-15 min
> Paul cross-5 min
> Derek Cross-5min
> Paul rebuttal-8 min
> Derek Rebuttal-8 min.
> 
> II.(inverted with shorter times)
> Derek 10-min
> Paul 10-min
> Derek cross-3 min
> Paul cross-3 min
> Derek Rebuttal-5 min
> Paul Rebuttal-5 min.
> 
> III. (closing)
> Derek Close -10 min
> Paul Close-10 min
> 
> (10 min. intermission for moderator to gather questions)
> 
> IV. Questions and Answers ( Paul and Derek alternate. Two minutes per answer with a one minute option for rebuttal).


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## matthew11v25

What is meant by "NO ADMISSION"?


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## BrianLanier

Sorry, FREE ADMISSION


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## Presbyrino

I wish I could be there, bummer 

Will there be tapes made available of the debate?


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## Puritan Sailor

Will it be recorded?


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## BrianLanier

It will probably be recorded and hopefully broadcast on the web. Paul also said he will be on Gene Cook's radio show tomorrow night discussing atheism and the burden of proof. Gene Cook's radio show can be found at http://www.unchainedradio.com

[Edited on 2-22-2005 by BrianLanier]


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## blhowes

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> Will it be recorded?


I was just going to ask that - you beat me to it. It would be neat to be able to hear the debate, for sure.


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## tdowns

*Where is Poway, CA*

Where is Poway?

I have a feeling it's too far for me to drive in this weather.


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## Scott

Who is Derek Sansone?


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## VirginiaHuguenot

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Who is Derek Sansone?



He's an atheist who, I gather, recanted of the faith and now likes to debate Christians.


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## BrianLanier

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Who is Derek Sansone?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He's an atheist who, I gather, recanted of the faith and now likes to debate Christians.
Click to expand...


Yes, and _apparently_ used to be a presuper.


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## BrianLanier

> _Originally posted by tdowns007_
> Where is Poway?
> 
> I have a feeling it's too far for me to drive in this weather.



It is N of San Diego and South of Oceanside. Who knows what the weather will be like then.


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## tdowns

*I wasn\'t paying attention.*

I was thinking it was today, Feb 22. Now there's a chance I can make it, an afternoon surf session down that way, and see Paul debate that night. Sweet.


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## Me Died Blue

Paul is on the radio right now! Go to http://live.str3am.com:2540/listen.pls

[Edited on 2-23-2005 by Me Died Blue]


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## Me Died Blue

The show was very good. Paul and Gene talked about the claim that Christians have the burden of proof, since they are the ones making the non-neutral claims. They discussed how from our worldview, atheists have the burden of proof since God is plain to all, and so by saying we have the burden of proof, they are already saying our worldview is false, and thus are not being neutral.

Paul also gave an example I found to be quite helpful and witty, which is that if an atheist is saying you have the burden to prove that God exists, tell him that you're an a-atheist, and that you don't believe that atheists truly exist, since everyone knows of God though some suppress that knowledge. Ask him how he can prove to you that atheists exist, to which he will probably respond, "Well what do you mean, it's obvious. I mean, you're talking to one right now." Then you can say, "OK then, I say the same thing about God, the proof for his existence is everywhere, are you blind?" The point was that from each worldview (Christian and non-Christian), the burden of proof is on the other side, and so by anyone assuming that they can "kick off their shoes" and watch the other side play defensive, they are already denying the other side.

Craig Sowder also called in at the end, and they talked about the sinfulness of Classical and Evidential methods, since even though their adherants are not sinning intentionally, it is still a twisting of biblical truth.

Paul, if you're reading this, thanks for speaking on Unchained Radio tonight, I really enjoyed it.


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## JohnV

Chris:

This doesn't make sense. First standing squarely on the evidences and then saying that Evidentialism is sinful. You know, this is serious stuff, making such a charge. Especially in an area where no church has ever made a pronouncement concerning sin, much less the Bible itself.


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## Me Died Blue

> _Originally posted by JohnV_
> Chris:
> 
> This doesn't make sense. First standing squarely on the evidences and then saying that Evidentialism is sinful. You know, this is serious stuff, making such a charge. Especially in an area where no church has ever made a pronouncement concerning sin, much less the Bible itself.



John, I have replied to your statement in another thread.


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## BrianLanier

Paul emailed me to update the time of the debate. The new start time is 7:30 pm. Just wanted to update all of you in case any of you can make it.


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## blhowes

Bump

Praying for Paul as he prepares for next week's debate.

"Good luck", Paul!


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## Me Died Blue




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## MICWARFIELD

I plan on attending. Hope to meet some of you there. Lets all keep Paul in our prayers!!!

Mike


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## Bladestunner316

NO ADMISSION 

ha ha lol


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## BrianLanier

Bump for Paul.

Hope to see some of you there. We're leaving for San Diego today


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## VirginiaHuguenot

God be with you, brother!


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## Me Died Blue

Indeed!


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## openairboy

I will definitely pray. Will the debate be available via mp3 or streaming?

Thanks,
openairboy


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## Tirian

Has this now a been made available to download (or a transcript made available)? (Sure, its only 12 hours after the event but I'm interested  )

Matthew

[Edited on 4-22-2005 by Matthew Glover]


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## openairboy

> _Originally posted by Matthew Glover_
> Has this now a been made available to download (or a transcript made available)? (Sure, its only 12 hours after the event but I'm interested  )
> 
> Matthew
> 
> [Edited on 4-22-2005 by Matthew Glover]



Well, seeing how you are on the other side of the world, it makes sense that it would've happened twelve hours ago. However, according to my calculations, we are still 2 hrs. away from Go Time!

openairboy


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## blhowes

Its too bad we couldn't plant somebody in there with a cell phone and have a massive puritanboard conference call.


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## RamistThomist

How did it go?


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## Presbyrino

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> How did it go?




I'm hoping somebody from the PB who was at the debate would let us know how the debate went...


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## openairboy

I wonder if the judge had to put a gag order in on this one. If Paul's blog didn't mention the debate, then I would definitely believe that was the case. Paul says audio will be up soon.

openairboy


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## BrianLanier

I was there...

Let's just say the debate was a CLEAR victory for Paul. Especially interesting was the cross examination from Paul to Derek. It just seemed that Derek was squirming while trying to answer even simple questions. I was glad I went. I met Derek and he actually seem quite nice, which I was not expecting from reading some of his stuff on the internet. Did anyone else go?


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## RamistThomist

Did y'all go out for beers afterwards?


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## BrianLanier

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> Did y'all go out for beers afterwards?



Nope. But we did meet with some atheists from the debate for like 3-4 hours after.


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## RickyReformed

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> I'll let everyone objectively judge for themselves how the debate was once I have it up. For now, you all can listem to the guy I debated give his brief analysis of the debate.
> 
> http://www.hellboundalleee.com/
> 
> click on archives and then it it the first show (upper left) titled: presuppositionalism part 3 with Derek Sansone.
> 
> Remember what he says and then when I have the debate up ask yourself what world he was living in to say what he said.



Check this out; it's a veiled reference to your debate: 

http://www.vincentcheung.com/2005/04/25/the-true-story-of-ah-q/

_A Christian had just won a debate against an atheist, but now the atheist is misrepresenting what happened. Of course, this is nothing new. The following is a revised and expanded version of an email message. In it, I refer to a character from Chinese literature to illustrate what many non-Christians do after losing a debate._


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## Average Joey

Paul,do you have news of a video/audio of the debate?Not to rush but I deffinently want to see it.


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## Average Joey

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> It's all ready but our sound guy went on vaction. he will not be back until sunday night. It should be up on our website on Monday or Tuesday. There should also be a number to the church if anyone wants to obtain a DVD copy. I will post a link when it is up and ready.



Whoohoo!Thanks Paul!


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## Solo Christo

Thanks Paul. I just got finished listening. The debate played out like a much younger "Bahnsen vs Stein". I say much younger mostly due to the immaturity of Derek throughout in both demeanor and argument. At times this became quite amusing. A couple such highlights include his stumbling remarks in file 15 about absolute truth and his comments about logic in his answer in file 29. 

Paul, you most definitely won this debate. Your calm and humbly focused moments throughout his quirks were my favorites. My only constructive criticism is that perhaps you went a little easy on him at times (in showing the pure ignorance of his notions, that is). Then again, at his level of intellect and maturity I'm not sure how much this would have helped. He seemed nothing more than a silly schoolchild with his fingers in his ears and poking out his tongue suggesting that you can't make him believe anything. So be it. We will pray for God to chastise his understanding and grant repentance. Time to move on to someone with something more interesting to repeatedly say than, "I just don't see what the big deal is?" Upon that redundant suggestion, he should not have even shown up.


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## Average Joey

Thanks brother.


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## blhowes

Very good debate, Paul. You did an excellent job. I pray that God will use your efforts in the debate to bring many to himself.

I thought Derek hit the nail on the head with his answer to his last question. He was asked (I'm paraphrasing) what evidence or proof would he need to see for him to believe in God. Inspite of the importance he places on sensory evidence, he said he would need a supernatural experience in his life for him to believe. So true. I pray that God would reveal himself to Derek.

At the end, your pastor expressed his desire for everbody there to know Christ and invited those who might have questions about Jesus or Christianity to feel free to ask him or other Christians afterwards. I was just curious how inquisitive the people were afterwards?

Keep up the good work,
Bob

[Edited on 5-3-2005 by blhowes]


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## Authorised

Derek Sansone didn't seem prepared for this at all. Perhaps he is just a poor debater when it comes to oral argument, as opposed to written argument. In any case, he was almost laughable, and having a very worthy opponent didn't make it any easier.


In any case, Paul, you spanked him like Little Orphan Annie by Daddy Warbucks.


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## crhoades

To pile on...I finished listening to it...It's pretty bad when it makes Eddie Tabash look like an incredible intelligent debater...

Sarcasm aside, Derek Sansone didn't perform well at all. I find it all the more amusing after having heard his interview on the athiest radio show. It would definitely be a bonus to see the DVD to see the bald show down!

Paul, plans to transcribe this?


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## cupotea

Paul-

Excellent job at the debate! I was SO bummed that I couldn't be there, I ended up having to work and the boss man didn't let me take a sick day (since I told him that I wasn't going to be sick, but was wondering if he would let me have the day off anyway).

I would love to get you up here in San Luis Obispo to debate at Campus Crusade for Christ @ Cal Poly's annual "Veritas forum", which includes a "Does God exist" debate. Last year Anthony Flew was the atheist participant (who, by the way, recently adopted a theistic worldview). Anyway, I'm not a student anymore, and even if you had the time to come up I'm not sure if Campus Crusade would be willing to loosen its hold on the JP Moreland / Lee Strobel / Josh McDowell evidentialist method. I might give it a try though, it would not be my first attempt at introducing presuppositionalism to the Christian community at Cal Poly SLO. Anyway, just a thought. I really enjoyed listening to your debate and thought you did a very professional, courteous, and overall EXCELLENT job.


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## crhoades

The person that Paul debated will be on the radio tonight with Gene Cook (the moderator of the debate as well as a person that has debated Derek before.) Should be good. Something tells me that Paul might even call in...

From: Unchained Radio

Join us tonight for The Narrow Mind. Tonight my guest and will be Atheist, Derek Sansone. We will be discussing atheism and Christianity.

The Narrow Mind can be heard at live at 6:00pm (PST) http://live.str3am.com:2540/listen.pls

We will also try to take a few calls at 800-466-1873.

TNM can also be heard live on the following stations:
9:00 PM (EST) WLMR am1450, Chattanooga TN.
9:00 PM (EST) WSKY am 1230, Asheville, NC.
7:00 PM (MT) KXKS am1190, Albuquerque, NM


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