# Street preacher assulted here...



## Kevin

I know the people involved in this. Very sad situation. The man in red is a city employee & Iknow him well. He has a chip on his shoulder about christianity.


*warning* some bad language

**video removed at Admin's discretion**


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## Zenas

Curious minds do wish to know.


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## Kevin

OK

No worries, Josh.

The situation is a (somewhat annoying) street preacher (Dan Lirette) shows up at the Farmers Market on Saturday and begins to "preach". He is outside & not interfearing with commerce.

The manager (a city employee) comes out and in very *colourful* language tells him to leave. A debate ensues and the city employee bumps him with his gut/chest to shove him out of the way. He then notices the camera & turns on the camera man.

I am very involved with this market. My dad is the president of the board, and I am the (past) VP of the co-op. I negotiated the unification of what were formerly 2 rival markets into one much larger united market.

Also our Sunday night out reach( http://www.xanga.com/MonctonCommunityFellowship ) meets in this building. 

This is a big local story today. I was not at the market this past weekend, but I recieved several calls about what happened. Today this is page one above the fold.


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## Kevin

*Update*

The Market manager involved in the scuffle has resigned.

I am wondering the best way to deal with this. in my opinion the preacher was overly agressive & out of line. However, I have been in his position before (at pro-life events) & I pushed the limits of graciousness to asert my *rights*. So I can understand how a young guy with more zeal than wisdom acts.

Also the manager does have a thing about christianity. I have known him for years, and he can be gruff.

So how to deal with this? Reporters are calling, and this will be a big local debate for several days.

Anyone have any advice?


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## BJClark

Kevin;




> I am wondering the best way to deal with this. in my opinion the preacher was overly agressive & out of line. However, I have been in his position before (at pro-life events) & I pushed the limits of graciousness to asert my *rights*. So I can understand how a young guy with more zeal than wisdom acts.



Not having seen what happened, how was he overly aggressive? Did he push or shove to begin with? In what way was he out of line?




> Also the manager does have a thing about christianity. I have known him for years, and he can be gruff.



So his physical altercation against the preacher could be, considered, by some, a hate crime?



> So how to deal with this? Reporters are calling, and this will be a big local debate for several days.



How are you in anyway responsible? This sounds like a personal one-on-one dispute between two grown men..

Was the manager attacking the preacher on the co-op's behalf? Was he speaking for the co-op in any manner? Or was he reacting on his own hatred towards Christianity?

If it was between two grown men, and the co-op did not in anyway support or encourage the managers actions, then the street preacher could very well file assault charges against him personally or not; he could forgive and ask that the man not step down, and show him Christ's forgiveness..which would speak volumes on his own walk...

The state could decide to press charges against the man who assaulted the preacher on their own, and if they investigate the way they should, they could very well decide it was a hate crime, which could add several years to any charges..

if you have to give a statement, just let the media circus know he acted of his own volition and not on behalf of the co-op...and it is your prayer and hope that this can be resolved peaceably..


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## Zenas

Hate crimes don't apply when done to Christians. Only if you're a minority or homosexual.


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## BJClark

Zenas;



> Hate crimes don't apply when done to Christians. Only if you're a minority or homosexual.



It covers religion, Christianity is included in that, even though there has never been a person charged with a hate crime against Christian's in this country doesn't mean there wouldn't be a first time..


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## Mushroom

This guy committed blasphemy and assault to enforce his apparently self-legislated will upon a christian preaching the gospel. If it were a muslim and he had insulted muhummed, there would literally be heads rolling. And a huge liberal uproar.


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## R Harris

Brad said:


> This guy committed blasphemy and assault to enforce his apparently self-legislated will upon a christian preaching the gospel If it were a muslim and he had insulted muhummed, there would literally be heads rolling. And a huge liberal uproar.



You got that right.


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## Zenas

Why minority? I havn't heard of any hate crimes against Hispanics or Asians, only against gays and African-Americans.

While what I have read about beatings and abuse administered to homosexuals and African-Americans is despicable and worthy of extreme social sanction, it should be no more so than anyone else who committed a similar crime.

Mind you, I'm not attempting to equate a sin like homosexuality with a skin color associated with national origin, some morons out there do, ergo a crime committed against either is prosecuted and punished with equal fervor and tenacity. The illogicality of it all is mind-boggling and stems from, I believe, a shift in the legal community that began a century ago. 

Judges like Oliver Holmes began rejecting the idea of an objective morality, determining that the State says what the law is because the State said so, and that's that. This logic has seemingly empowered court decisions determining that it's ok to think "wrongly" in America, but if you think "too wrongly", then the law will no longer offer you protection, i.e. in defamation laws and Judge Hand's "wrong/too wrong" dicotomy. I realize that hate crimes are statutory in nature, but I don't doubt that the same reasoning lies behind them, that you can think wrongly in the States' opinion, but if you think too wrongly then you're out of luck. 

BJC,

While I realize religion is what is hypothetically protected by hate crime legislation, that is not how it translates in reality. In reality, all religions are tolerated and protected except Christianity. I wouldn't be too suprised if he manager was given some sort of medal by the ACLU.


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## BJClark

Brad;



> This guy committed blasphemy and assault to enforce his apparently self-legislated will upon a christian preaching the gospel If it were a muslim and he had insulted muhummed, there would literally be heads rolling. And a huge liberal uproar.



Yet, Christian's remain silent on such issues 'turning the other cheek'


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## Mushroom

BJClark said:


> Brad;
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This guy committed blasphemy and assault to enforce his apparently self-legislated will upon a christian preaching the gospel If it were a muslim and he had insulted muhummed, there would literally be heads rolling. And a huge liberal uproar.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yet, Christian's remain silent on such issues 'turning the other cheek'
Click to expand...

Well, I guess I wasn't exactly silent about it, but turning the other cheek is a commendable thing.


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## Kevin

No, the market is in no way responsible. The manager is however a city employee.

The preacher was curtly told to move to the sidewalk & he didn't. He began to argue that he had a right to be there (& he does).

My role in this is only that I am one of a couple people publicly identified with the market & I have often been interviewed & quoted on "market issues"many times over the years. (I also serve on some other boards so I am well known to local reporters as someone who can give a "good quote", so I am called by various media types to comment on local issues fairly often)

My concerns are; 1) the manager is antagonistic to the gospel & I have a burden for him. 2) we are using the market location for our outreach & have had a lot of unsaved/unchurched people coming. I do not want this controversy to negativly affect our efforts. 3) I am wondering how to reach out to the "preacher".

For many years the market has had a group of (mostly reformed) believers associated with it as vendors & board members. These individuals have acted as unofficial chaplans. The visit the sick in hospital & share the gospel with vendors & customers. This has been a very productive outreach. Our Sundaynight effort is attempting to build on this in a formal way. I worry that a brash young street preacher & a grumpy old agnostic could be used to undermine this ministry.


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## BJClark

Zenas;



> While I realize religion is what is hypothetically protected by hate crime legislation, that is not how it translates in reality. In reality, all religions are tolerated and protected except Christianity. I wouldn't be too suprised if he manager was given some sort of medal by the ACLU.



I understand, and to my knowledge nobody has ever tried to prosecute such a case in regards to Christian 'hate crimes'. 

but something we as Christian's, at least on some level, should or do recognize is that the hatred is not geared at 'us' personally but at God whose Spirit indwells us, even though yes, we get the brunt of it physically while we live in this world..


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## Zenas

I think it is geared toward us though. As they hate the Master, so they hate the servants.


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## danlirette

Greetings, Kevin! 

I noted you had mentioned the Farmer's Market issue, and as the individual named in the media I would like to share some thoughts, if this would be appropriate for the Forum 

Our camerman, Ryan, and the individual preaching the Gospel that morning, Myah, were at the market first handing out CD Tracts with people readily accepting them (See here: [ame=http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=7283472016411311941]Myah Walker[/ame]

Then, Myah began to Open Air Preach (see preaching WITHOUT confrontation with market manager here: [ame="http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=-1746375218901396149"]Myah Walker: Open Air at the Market[/ame]

To give some detail...

Thi swas Myah's second outing.

Myah was radically Born Again 4 months ago and now attends and works full time as a staff member at our local assembly (Highfield Baptist Church).

Myah felt the Call of God to OA before she ever met me or knew that I OA'd in Moncton, as she was saved in Nova Scotia and has only recently moved back to Moncton.

When she wanted to OA, we were all for it; I believe females and males are called to preach the Gospel, and Myah's presentation for a New Believer was astounding! Amen!

The market preaching was her second time doing OA... 

It was going well until the market manager came over to accost her verbally and ask her to stop; I interjected as this same man a year ago became verbally aggressive and demanded we leave.

At that time the City told us we could in fact be present to preach; however, the market manager was not, apparently, told this.

That said, it was uncalled for to throw me and pin my cameraman while seeking to take our camera.

Nonetheless, we are not suing nor pressing charges.

The video of the incident itself was posted by a Fredericton individual and not by me.

The media immediately grabbed onto it and ran with it, twisting words and creating a stir, to the detriment of both the market manager and I.

I will say, using discretion as all aspects are not yet worked out, that Mr. Beck (manager of the market) is not fired, and we have asked that he remain at the market. The City has agreed.

Mr. Beck and I will most likely release a joint statement this coming week as the media blitz is ridiculous.

I hold no ought against Mr. Beck and nor should I; Christ is Lord and can easily with a word save Mr. Beck and set him free.

As per the Open Air Preaching, Brother Kevin, I do understand that you and many others may not be in agreement with it, and I can respect such a view, however, due to it we've been able to minister in the homes of drug addicts, prostitues and cult members (Mormons) with one homosexual seeing the vids and stating, "I don't want to be an abomination anymore."

John the Baptist OA'd at the River Jordan and baptized those who were ordained to eternal life while rebuking sharply and openly those who refused the Lord Almighty stating, "You brood of vipers! Who told you to flee from the wrath to come?!"

Scripture is clear that Paul "disputed daily".

Peter on the Day of Pentecost Open Air Preached and accused his listeners openly and publically of "crucifying the Lord" and then shared the Good News and 3000 were birthed into the Kingdom by the Grace of God which compels us.

The Law of God must strike the lost person to see his need for Christ. It would be a shame to introduce the cure before naming the disease of sin.

Spurgeon, Whitfield, Edwards, etc etc would not be very liked among us today, yet their fruit was lasting... though not popular.

In the same way, I feel at times like "throwing in the towel" on OA Preaching due to even Brethren misunderstanding this trype of Outreach; it comes with a loss of reputation and threats of violence etc etc... the reward on this earth is filled with stress, fear and a lack of approval. This is why much prayer must be brought forth by anyone going into this type of Ministry.

If the media had seen our clothing giveaway or our food bank, I may receive accolades, yet I'm not interested in the praise of man but am only concerned that lost man is going to a devil's hell without Christ.

I realize that what we do is in fact offensive to some, but at the same time, I truly do my best to present the Gospel in an Open Air format in the least confrontational way possible... but I cannot sacrifice the Truth for the sake of non offense.

Open Air Preaching is a hard, harsh and confrontational ministry which is more of a planting ministry... but it's only 10% of what we actually do.

The media seeks to portray us as OA's all the time, while in reality we're rarely OA Preaching as much as doing One2One Ministry.

I pray this explaination has been a help and may the Lord continue to use all of us in that place wherein He has called us to minister.

Dan Lirette


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## Kevin

Dan,

I am glad to see from your profile that you hold to the doctrines of grace & to the WCF. I know your home church well & many of the members are close friends of mine. 

I know many of the members would consider themselves reformed or calvanistic baptists, however I must admit being a bit surprised to see that someone who holds to the WCF has made HBC their home.

As far as your view that women can be called to "preach", I think we will have to agree to disagree.

As you will see in an earlier post I callled you "(somewhat) annoying". I did this based on your youtube videos. In my opinion, this method of evangeism is of limited use in our culture. However that is not what I was refering to. What I meant was your respons to JB. Too loudly assert your rights seemed to be antagonistic, in my opinion.

You are correct, that JB's resignation was not accepted. Many market members who are christians spoke out in his defense.

If you like, I would be happy to meet with you some day for a face to face chat.

Pax.


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## danlirette

Grace to you, Brother Kevin!

I must admit that I do not believe culture should shape one's method of declaring the Gospel, but that Scripture alone must dictate culture... Paul the Apostle preached OA in a culture that got him killed; how much more, in a free society, must we be open to all methods?

When comparing OA Preaching presently with Biblical times, it's clear that IOA Preahcing is much more accepted now than in New Testament days, as the NT Brethren were under threat of death at all times for publically declaring Jesus Christ, as Paul the Apostle daily disputed on Mars Hill and at the Synogogue.

As per my assertion of our right to be at the market, such an assertion was not sinful, immoral or unBiblical, but on the contrary such an assertion was _good_. That said, it was not _profitbale_, and as a Believer it was my duty to do what was _profitbale_ rather than only _good_, meaning I did not go the extra mile when I should have clearly done so.

As a result, I have already sent out an apology letter to the media and the City and hopefully will be meeting with JB this week or early next to voice this very sentiment.

My letter was as follows, and I do hope this helps to clarify  ... and it would be an honor to meet you and speak on these issues, Brother.


*To Whom it may concern:*

As a follow-up to the incident at the Moncton Farmer’s Market between myself, our cameraman and Market Manager John Beck, I would like to state the following:

Mr. John Beck, as any of us, lost his cool for a brief moment as one of our colleagues was preaching.

I think it’s fair to state that we’ve all lost our cool at one point or another, in various ways for various reasons; none of us are without fault in being “human”.

Nonetheless, this incident would not have taken place had I have not affirmed my right to be there at that time; rather, I affirmed that right and the issue in question took place.

I would like to apologize to Mr. Beck publically for not removing myself and our colleagues from the area as requested as it was unChristlike to do and caused a media blitz to ensue that has harmed the legitimacy of Christianity, myself and Mr. Beck.

I would ask that Mr. Beck not be held accountable for any actions he may have done in the spur of the moment, as again, we could have done the Christian thing and walked away.

Mr. Beck is known by Market workers as reliable, friendly and straightforward.

I suspect that Mr. Beck and I have some very similar traits, one of which is stubbornness, which is certainly a good trait if used in the proper context; however, we all use such traits at times to our inadvertent disadvantage, and this happens to be one of those times.

Mr. Beck is as human as we all are, and as Mr. Beck, I also made some errors in judgment that day.

I would publically ask that Mr. Beck forgive me for not going the extra mile and working with him personally to ensure that all sides are satisfied in issues such as Ministry and Market balance.

While I enjoy ministering and seeing others minister in Open Air Preaching, I concede that I allowed such desire to cloud my judgment and cause me to rise up to “demand my rights”, not taking into account that my behaviour was unChristlike and uncalled for.

As a very imperfect Christian, I can only ask that the City of Moncton, the residents of Moncton and Mr. Beck himself forgive me for my lack of humility, patience and unChristlike behaviour.

While this is not a letter of concession in the preaching, it is a letter of apology to Mr. Beck for, again, not going the extra mile to work with him to ensure everyone is satisfied in the process of Market and Ministry.

My sincere apologies,

Dan Lirette
[email protected]


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## Kevin

Thank you Dan, that was well said & I believe well intentioned.

God bless.


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