# Dead White Guy music



## Kevin (May 31, 2009)

After reading an other thread that had a lot of chatter about differing musical styles, and the*unsuitability* of DWG music i felt an overwhelming urge to listen to some Alison Krouss.

Here is some of the most overlooked of all of the DWG music, shape note singing. Called shape note because the 4 notes are writen not in normal musical notation but by 4 shapes. Originaly this was a method of teaching simple psalm tunes to illiterates. Often asserted to be of American origin, it probably was devised in Scotland & transported to America.

The singers usually sit in a square divided by parts. The singing is unaccompanied. The singers first sing the song by note, then by word. For this reason it is also called "Fa, So, La" singing. Some also refer to it by the name of the most popular hymnal in this tradition, The Sacred Harp. Or Sacred Harp Singing.

I have attended "singings' in both Georgia & SC & I love this!

Here is Sacred Harp #373

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ckxBb222Tc"]YouTube - Sacred Harp 373, Homeward Bound. For Amanda[/ame]


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## PresbyDane (May 31, 2009)

I do not see anything her to listen to


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## Oecolampadius (May 31, 2009)

Why is it called Dead White Guy? That's a very curious name for a musical style.


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## PresbyDane (May 31, 2009)

Because if you called it "dead Mexican music" you would be labled a racist


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## Kevin (May 31, 2009)

It is not just for white guys, here is a great example from a Black church

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iBic1-twVkA&feature=related]YouTube - African American Sacred Harp Singing[/ame]

-----Added 5/31/2009 at 11:59:47 EST-----

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMUKOhITUIo&feature=channel]YouTube - Give Me Just a Little More Time, Bernice Harvey[/ame]

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-KANyOxseA&feature=channel]YouTube - Alabama Capitol Rotunda Singing 2006[/ame]


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## OPC'n (Jun 1, 2009)

So is this EP singing? It's very strange....


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## BJClark (Jun 1, 2009)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMF_24cQqT0]YouTube - Amazing Grace History/"Amazing Grace" By Wintley Phipps[/ame]


[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UvYIjFtPQEk"]YouTube - Native American - Amazing Grace (in cherokee)[/ame]


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## JerseyMom5 (Jun 1, 2009)

I am new here, what is DWG music? But I can appreciate God-given talent, and Allison Krauss certainly has it. The shape singing was very interesting - I had not heard of it.
Cindy


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## Kevin (Jun 1, 2009)

JerseyMom5 said:


> I am new here, what is DWG music? But I can appreciate God-given talent, and Allison Krauss certainly has it. The shape singing was very interesting - I had not heard of it.
> Cindy



DWG= Dead White Guy, a derogatory term for music written in one of the many western european traditions.


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## LawrenceU (Jun 1, 2009)

Shape note singing is a wonderful way to learn to sing. It allows one to 'sight read' without knowing the staff and music theory. I grew up singing shape notes. There are a few different methods. Some have shapes for the entire scale. Others for less. In some circles it is called 'Sol Fetching'. It can actually be quite beautiful. One great advantage is that one does not have to know music theory to sing in different keys. The song leader, normally using a pitch pipe or more rarely a tuning fork (usually a C), finds the 'home note' - do, hums it and the singers find their respective starting pitch relative to do - and away you go.

Some older hymnals with staff music will use shaped notes on the staff. This is a wonderful addition. It allows shape note singers to sing along with music readers. In the Church of Christ this was the norm for years. I've also seen hymnals used in some Primitive Baptist churches that had this arrangement.


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## he beholds (Jun 1, 2009)

Kevin said:


> JerseyMom5 said:
> 
> 
> > I am new here, what is DWG music? But I can appreciate God-given talent, and Allison Krauss certainly has it. The shape singing was very interesting - I had not heard of it.
> ...



WOW. I'm the one who said "dead white guy," and it wasn't derogatory, nor is it a typical term. Also, I never questioned its suitability and I said that *I* LOVE it. I simply said that I can see why every single person in the church might not. This is probably the first time I've actually been personally offended/annoyed/angry on the PB.


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## SemperEruditio (Jun 1, 2009)

Re4mdant said:


> Because if you called it "dead Mexican music" you would be labled a racist



Aren't you in Denmark? I thought the "race" issue was a US thing, when did it go overseas?


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## LawrenceU (Jun 1, 2009)

he beholds said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> > JerseyMom5 said:
> ...



I'm not familiar with the thread where you used the phrase, Jessi. Usually when Dead White Guy is used it is by those who are historical reconstructionst, leftists who want to undermine the legitimate history of Western Civilization. It normally is a derogatory term.


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## he beholds (Jun 1, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> he beholds said:
> 
> 
> > Kevin said:
> ...



Oh ok. I don't see how my usage could have sounded like that, since I was piggy-backing on the fact that the hymns in our churches _were_ written by Europeans (who were white and are now dead). Plus I stated my personal preference for those hymns. Anyway, not so mad now. I will assume the OP was not really saying that I said they weren't suitable and that I was being derogatory. I think he was just inspired by that thread.


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## Knoxienne (Jun 1, 2009)

he beholds said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > he beholds said:
> ...



Jessi, I did not take your remark as derogatory in the sense that I know you had no wrong intentions in your remark.  I simply was just admonishing you to be cautious. These are phrases that we all have used and are used to using, and sometimes we don't realize what their implications are. That's all.


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## BJClark (Jun 1, 2009)

SemperEruditio;



> I thought the "race" issue was a US thing, when did it go overseas?



In reality it's all over the world..it's not just a US thing...just depends on where you live in the world, on where your 'racism' is targeted--(Maybe this should have it's own thread..)

Racism ? Global Issues

Racism ? Global Issues

Racism ? Global Issues

Racism ? Global Issues


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## Curt (Jun 1, 2009)

Getting back to the music, I absolutely loved that video of Amazing Grace with Wintley Phipps (of whom I had never heard before). I sent it off to all my friends for uplifting.

I'm also listening to the other Phipps recordings.

Good music; so cool.


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## Sven (Jun 1, 2009)

I read somewhere (can't remember where) that Sacred Harp music had its origins with the Psalmsingers from Scotland. Not surprising since many Scots settled in the South where Sacred Harp is mostly sung.

It is a lovely sound. I could listen to it all day.


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## AThornquist (Jun 1, 2009)

Curt said:


> Getting back to the music, I absolutely loved that video of Amazing Grace with Wintley Phipps (of whom I had never heard before). I sent it off to all my friends for uplifting.
> 
> I'm also listening to the other Phipps recordings.
> 
> Good music; so cool.



Yeah that video was fantastic. I love when we can say black, white, slave, slave ship captain, etc. with only love and history in mind.


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## JBaldwin (Jun 1, 2009)

Sven said:


> I read somewhere (can't remember where) that Sacred Harp music had its origins with the Psalmsingers from Scotland. Not surprising since many Scots settled in the South where Sacred Harp is mostly sung.
> 
> It is a lovely sound. I could listen to it all day.



The shape note (Sacred Harp) system first showed up in the Bay Psalm Book, but the solfege system (assigning a syllable to each note in the scale) on which Sacred Harp is based, goes all the way back to the 11th century and Guido of Arezzo. Guido was the first known European to assign syllables to the notes of a scale. Some historians think it may actually go even further back with Arabic origins. 

Over the centuries there have been numerous ways to teach solfege. One way was to hold up the hand and assign each finger and each space in between to a musical note. Another (the method I was taught) is to assign a hand signal to each note of the scale.


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