# About the "Perseverance of the Saints"



## hojun1978 (Mar 18, 2010)

I have a friend who just became positive on reformed belief.
He called me several days ago that he had an argue on "P" in "TULIP"
with a German Christian who believe in the first 4 points of the 5.
My friend had a difficulty to argue with him
when the German raised an example with Solomon,
the opinion of the German is that Solomon falled from the salvation 
because he followed the Gentile idols.
I guess Solomon repented before he died.
Is there better explanation about Solomon?
I met a seminary student from Fort Worth, he said he believes in 4.5 
and the 0.5 is on "P". I did not understand what he actually meant.


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## Contra_Mundum (Mar 18, 2010)

It seems doubtful to me that Solomon actually apostatized finally. If Ecclesiastes expresses his faith at the end of his life, then he most likely died in faith.

Certainly, he was led astray, but Christians do sin. They also repent, and find forgiveness. There are some who apostatize finally and forever. And they "Went out from us, because they were never of us." In other words, they had only an outward connection to the church and covenant of God.

Understanding that there are two ways of relating to the church and covenant (internal and external) helps explain how there can really be a "falling away" such as Hebrews speaks of, and yet no one who is elect of Christ can ever so fall away. Because "all that the Father gives to me will come to me, and I will raise him up on the last day."


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 18, 2010)

I think perseverance of the saints is probably the easiest concept to grasp. God has elected a people to salvation. He always gets his way, so obviously the elect will persevere.


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## hojun1978 (Mar 19, 2010)

Contra_Mundum said:


> It seems doubtful to me that Solomon actually apostatized finally. If Ecclesiastes expresses his faith at the end of his life, then he most likely died in faith.
> 
> Certainly, he was led astray, but Christians do sin. They also repent, and find forgiveness. There are some who apostatize finally and forever. And they "Went out from us, because they were never of us." In other words, they had only an outward connection to the church and covenant of God.
> 
> Understanding that there are two ways of relating to the church and covenant (internal and external) helps explain how there can really be a "falling away" such as Hebrews speaks of, and yet no one who is elect of Christ can ever so fall away. Because "all that the Father gives to me will come to me, and I will raise him up on the last day."


 
Thanks!


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## JonathanHunt (Mar 19, 2010)

I certainly would hold that Ecclesiastes is the record of Solomon's experience, written after he returned to the Lord. I'm not sure how one can read it differently - it proclaims in essence 'I have tried everything under the sun and nothing and no-one but the living God satisfies'. Truly one of my favourite books in our modern times, when all are 'grasping for the wind'.


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