# Jews under Law post-Crucifixion



## Herald (Apr 30, 2018)

This is not my statement but I am interested in opinions on it:

"The book of Hebrews says the Old Covenant was ready to pass away during the time of its writing. All of that generation of Jews circumcised before the hour of Jesus' death remained under the Old Covenant until death, _unless they converted to Christ._ As Paul and thousands of jews did. And 70 AD finished off most of that lingering generation. But, circumcision became a dead form. And no longer made one a Physical Jew or member of Physical Israel. From the replacement of the Old Covenant by the New, Israel was made up only of believers under Christ."

I could be wrong, but just because some Jews followed the Law after Jesus' crucifixion and resurrection does not mean the Old Covenant was still in operation. 

Thoughts?


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## Contra_Mundum (Apr 30, 2018)

When Shiloh comes...

An argument can be made that there was an "husk" of the Old Covenant that continued for a time (about a generation or so). Depending on the intended meaning of the expression, you can debate about persons "remaining" under the Old Covenant. When the veil was rent (Mt.27:51; cf. Heb.10:20), there was no more legitimate (typological) mediation under the old forms.

I argue that Pentecost is the announcement of the dissolution of the Old Covenant. As for the terms of it, everyone false to it has been cut off--which in practical terms leaves just one Man. In him the New Covenant is instituted. He is also the bringing of judgments in regard to the Old; and he does proceed to punish the covenant-breakers.

There is a period of grace (a 40yrs stay), which is opportunity for the guilty to commit themselves to Him whom God vindicated. It's mercy, not something that can be demanded or expected.

So, in terms of the quote, I would say:* Israel is Christ*, and in him alone is everyone who is entitled to that designation. It was practically so even before the Coming One; and definitely so afterward.

The writer of the original quote could be in substantial agreement with this expression or clarification.

Reactions: Like 2 | Edifying 1


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## Krak3n (Apr 30, 2018)

Is this related to the exchange we see between James and Paul in Acts Chapter 21? The Jews, even those who believed, were still advised to keep the law, by Paul's example, including circumcision.

Acts 21:19-26 (Emboldening Mine)
19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry.
20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:
21 *And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.*
22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come.
23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them;
24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and *all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law.*
25 *As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing*, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication.
26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.


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## Dachaser (May 1, 2018)

Herald said:


> This is not my statement but I am interested in opinions on it:
> 
> "The book of Hebrews says the Old Covenant was ready to pass away during the time of its writing. All of that generation of Jews circumcised before the hour of Jesus' death remained under the Old Covenant until death, _unless they converted to Christ._ As Paul and thousands of jews did. And 70 AD finished off most of that lingering generation. But, circumcision became a dead form. And no longer made one a Physical Jew or member of Physical Israel. From the replacement of the Old Covenant by the New, Israel was made up only of believers under Christ."
> 
> ...


Jesus operated under the Old Covenant Himself, as he stated that he had come to fulfill all aspects of the law, but in His death and resurrection, the NC was ushered into place.


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## Krak3n (May 10, 2018)

Herald said:


> This is not my statement but I am interested in opinions on it:
> 
> "The book of Hebrews says the Old Covenant was ready to pass away during the time of its writing. All of that generation of Jews circumcised before the hour of Jesus' death remained under the Old Covenant until death, _unless they converted to Christ._ As Paul and thousands of jews did. And 70 AD finished off most of that lingering generation. But, circumcision became a dead form. And no longer made one a Physical Jew or member of Physical Israel. From the replacement of the Old Covenant by the New, Israel was made up only of believers under Christ."
> 
> ...



I am curious, for the reason I stated above (Relation to Acts 21), where does this idea come from? Does this follow some specific doctrine or teaching?


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## Herald (May 13, 2018)

Krak3n said:


> I am curious, for the reason I stated above (Relation to Acts 21), where does this idea come from? Does this follow some specific doctrine or teaching?


Joshua,

I found out that the individual I quoted is a proponent of New Covenant Theology. In other writings, he has made it clear he is antinomian. His lingering of the Old Covenant after the New Covenant was given actually plays to his argument that there is no longer a moral law of God. He believes that once "that generation" passed at AD70, any vestige of the Law (including the pre-Sinaitic moral law) was ended. Obviously, I vehemently disagree with this person.


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## Scott Bushey (May 13, 2018)

What does he do with all the NT epistle references to God’s law and showing its perpetuity?


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## Herald (May 13, 2018)

Scott Bushey said:


> What does he do with all the NT epistle references to God’s law and showing its perpetuity?


Scott, he claims the moral law is superseded by Christ's two great commandments. Like I said, he is clearly antinomian. I did not know that at first.


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## Krak3n (May 13, 2018)

Herald said:


> Joshua,
> 
> I found out that the individual I quoted is a proponent of New Covenant Theology. In other writings, he has made it clear he is antinomian. His lingering of the Old Covenant after the New Covenant was given actually plays to his argument that there is no longer a moral law of God. He believes that once "that generation" passed at AD70, any vestige of the Law (including the pre-Sinaitic moral law) was ended. Obviously, I vehemently disagree with this person.



That's unfortunate. I thought perhaps that concept, specifically regarding Acts 21, might lead somewhere profitable. I've no love for New Covenant Theology, especially when coupled with overt Antinomianism. (NCT proponents would deny the charge of antinomianism generally.)

I don't see how pushing the expiration date for the Old Covenant to 70a.d. helps the cause of NCT. Yes, one may try to explain that any moral laws referenced in the New Testament (Scott's Concern) are not valid for consideration, because they were in the process of vanishing as Hebrews 8:13 states. Yet the real problem is that the New Covenant is different because God places his laws in the minds and hearts of his people. The Old Covenant vanished, not God's laws (Hebrews 8:10). 



Herald said:


> Scott, he claims the moral law is superseded by Christ's two great commandments. Like I said, he is clearly antinomian. I did not know that at first.



That's funny because Jesus says that all the law and the prophets hang on those.

Reactions: Like 1


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