# Believe AND be Baptized?



## Zenas (Feb 12, 2009)

I just saw a commercial for the Church of Christ that claimed you cannot be saved unless you're baptized; that belief is simply not enough. 

I know there are a few former CoC'ers here, is this indicative of the denomination's theology as a whole; that it's faith + works?


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## LawrenceU (Feb 12, 2009)

For a large percentage of the CofC that would be accurate. They do not see baptism as a work, however. Well, most wouldn't call it that. They would call it obedience.

The Church of Christ is rapidly changing. Some of it in a very good direction. There are however the diehards who are retreating in reponse to positions that the mainstream left years ago. You live in the city of one of the diehard schools: The Memphis School of Preaching. http://www.msop.org/

Also in Memphis is a more moderate school: Harding Graduate School of Religion. http://www.hugsr.edu/

Not a lot of love lost from the MSOP guys toward Harding.


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 12, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> For a large percentage of the CofC that would be accurate. *They do not see baptism as a work, however. Well, most wouldn't call it that. They would call it obedience.*





I don't eat food.

I consume it.


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## Scottish Lass (Feb 12, 2009)

The two CoC folks we know don't believe this--we asked them specifically once. No idea what the church view is on this, though--it's just their view. Nor do they personally believe you must be baptized CoC, as some claim.


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## LawrenceU (Feb 12, 2009)

As I've stated before. There is not CofC official position on just about anything. They are not a denomination. There is no confessional statement or creed. Every congregation is independent. There are loose groupings of churches that typically center around schools or universities; not geographically, but relationally / theologically.

If anyone ever says, 'The Church of Christ believes X' they are woefully ignorant of the Church of Christ.


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## Brian Withnell (Feb 16, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> As I've stated before. There is not CofC official position on just about anything. They are not a denomination. There is no confessional statement or creed. Every congregation is independent. There are loose groupings of churches that typically center around schools or universities; not geographically, but relationally / theologically.
> 
> If anyone ever says, 'The Church of Christ believes X' they are woefully ignorant of the Church of Christ.



One of the reasons I like a confessional church is because I want to be able to know what the church believes. Some things are difficult in themselves, others we make more difficult ourselves. I suppose this is yet another reason to say "come quickly".


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## Marrow Man (Feb 16, 2009)

Scottish Lass said:


> The two CoC folks we know don't believe this--we asked them specifically once. No idea what the church view is on this, though--it's just their view. Nor do they personally believe you must be baptized CoC, as some claim.



I would add that one of these two folks of whom the missus speaks is the son of a CoC pastor. And as the son is in no way nominal or lapsed, I would suspect the apple does not fall far from the tree.


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## Kim G (Feb 17, 2009)

I have had only two experiences with Church of Christ (a friend and a man who came witnessing at my door). Both were adamant that baptism is necessary for salvation, and that if you die with unconfessed sin, you will not go to heaven.


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## Marrow Man (Feb 17, 2009)

I also briefly taught a girl who was CoC. She (and her parents) were very warm and friendly. They allowed their children to attend a Christian homeschool co-op (actually a variation of this, sort of a hybrid between a co-op and a Christian school) where the missus and I taught. The church building that was utilized was actually originally owned by the CoC church, rented to a Reformed Baptist congregation when the CoC moved to a new building, and shared with a Presbyterian headmaster for the co-op.

Funny story about the church facilities where the school was held. In the sanctuary, I looked one day for the baptismal pool, and found it behind a curtain. Then the headmaster told me the story behind it. He said that when the RB church first moved in, they had an awful time with mildew growing on the walls in the sanctuary. They couldn't find it for the longest, and then finally realized that it was because the baptismal pool _was perpetually heated_ (for immediate baptisms in the CoC, I believe). They turned off the heated pool and never had a problem with the mildew again.


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## LawrenceU (Feb 17, 2009)

What they needed was a jet heater. It can take a baptistry from cold to warm in minutes. They really are amazing. And, invented by a CofC member who was an engineer.


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## Marrow Man (Feb 17, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> What they needed was a jet heater. It can take a baptistry from cold to warm in minutes. They really are amazing. And, invented by a CofC member who was an engineer.



I seriously doubt such a thing reflects any sort of NT practice.


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## LawrenceU (Feb 17, 2009)

I agree. I think baptisms should be in cold or ambient water. It is more than likely biblical and makes for a much more memorable baptismal experience. 

Of course, running cold water is even better. But, CAUTION must be observed in such a situation. I will never forget the river baptism in which I made the rookie mistake ( I was a college student) of baptising a young lady who was wearing a dress with her head downstream. Had I not kept her underwater and run downstream with her for a bit it would have been a very revealing experience for all.


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## kceaster (Feb 17, 2009)

I was once a part-time youth minister in one of these (21 years ago). The first question they posed to me was about my stance on baptism.

In that community, they had been working on a man well advanced in years. When he was about to die, they went to talk to him again, and he "accepted" Christ. They had me fill the baptistry that hour, and they baptized him immediately. The water was extremely cold, I don't know how he stood it without a shock to his already weak heart. He died shortly after.

I had a very dear friend in the Christian Church and I asked him about the thief on the cross, and how the Lord could promise him eternal life and not be baptized. He thought about it for a minute and said that he believed the man was saved, but that his reward was not what it would have been had he been baptized. So, apparently to solve this dilemma, one would have to admit a special circumstance of salvation and a class of second rate citizens in heaven. Not a whole lot there on which to biblically hang your hat.

In Christ,

KC


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## Marrow Man (Feb 17, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> I agree. I think baptisms should be in cold or ambient water. It is more than likely biblical and makes for a much more memorable baptismal experience.
> 
> Of course, running cold water is even better. But, CAUTION must be observed in such a situation. I will never forget the river baptism in which I made the rookie mistake ( I was a college student) of baptising a young lady who was wearing a dress with her head downstream. Had I not kept her underwater and run downstream with her for a bit it would have been a very revealing experience for all.



As I am Presbyterian, none of that is a potential problem.


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