# The RPW and Christmas



## Hamalas (Nov 18, 2008)

Does anyone know of some good threads/articles that link to a Pro-holiday perspective? I'm not entirely convinced either way but I've been able to read a lot of articles opposing the celebration holidays and have had some difficulties finding resources from the other side. Or if you hold to a pro-holiday position feel free to present that here and we can talk about it.


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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 18, 2008)

Are you just talking about the social observances like presents and decorations or are you asking about a liturgical calendar?


Hamalas said:


> Does anyone know of some good threads/articles that link to a Pro-holiday perspective? I'm not entirely convinced either way but I've been able to read a lot of articles opposing the celebration holidays and have had some difficulties finding resources from the other side. Or if you hold to a pro-holiday position feel free to present that here and we can talk about it.


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## Herald (Nov 18, 2008)

Finally! The first Christmas thread. Let the merriment begin. Anti-Christmas saints on the left; pro-Christmas on the right. Please shake hands before entering the fray and remember that we are all brothers and sisters  .


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## Hamalas (Nov 18, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Are you just talking about the social observances like presents and decorations or are you asking about a liturgical calendar?



Let's say both.

Joshua: Good idea, I'll do that. I'm only 19 so your drinks are safe, (for now.)


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## OPC'n (Nov 18, 2008)

I don't believe there is anything wrong with celebrating the holidays. Thanksgiving and Christmas is a great time for family get togethers especially if you have not seen your family in a long time. I don't see anything in the Bible that forbids people celebrating holidays as long as they are not geared towards worshipping of gods, which isn't a problem for us. I don't celebrate Christmas for Christ's birth because Scripture doesn't tell us to do so but instead to celebrate Him everyday. Also, when you think about Christmas it has more to do with people....eating wonderful food, exchanging gifts, decorations and lights, games, etc. My church doesn't have a Christmas service for which I'm thankful.


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## Hamalas (Nov 18, 2008)

So you would see the private and cultural celebration of holidays to be a good thing, but the celebration in the church to be beyond the bounds of Scripture? Is that a fair way to put it?


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## dannyhyde (Nov 18, 2008)

Hamalas said:


> Does anyone know of some good threads/articles that link to a Pro-holiday perspective? I'm not entirely convinced either way but I've been able to read a lot of articles opposing the celebration holidays and have had some difficulties finding resources from the other side. Or if you hold to a pro-holiday position feel free to present that here and we can talk about it.



Hi Ben,

Here are two bulletin inserts I wrote for my congregation, and then posted onto my blog. Keep in mind that these are not academic treatises, but basic thoughts I want my parishioners to think about during times such as Advent and Christmas:

http://www.oceansideurc.org/ - Pilgrims & Parish (Danny Hyde) - - About Advent

http://dannyhyde.squarespace.com/journal/2007/11/28/not-holy-but-helpful-thoughts-on-the-church-calendar.html


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## he beholds (Nov 18, 2008)

I want to celebrate Festivus. 
Seriously, I am in favor of gifts, snowmen, even Santa Clause stories, but _*so*_ not-in-favor of manger scenes, religious Christmas carols, or anything that pretends Christmas was Christ's birthday, or even worse, _pretends_ that that's why we celebrate it! I want Christmas to be like Halloween or the Fourth of July.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 18, 2008)

To speak my peace briefly, Christmas is not warranted by the Word of God with respect to public worship, or with respect to any other sphere of worship (family or private), because it involves celebrating the birth of Christ which is a worshipful act whether done on the religious level or the so-called secular level, but lacks the positive command of God to do so. 

The date of Christ's birth is hidden from us (much like the body of Moses) and that fact alone, not to mention that there are two dates on the calendar most frequently observed in the world today (December 25 and January 6), most in our society choose to align themselves with the Papal calendar rather than the Orthodox calendar, ought to restrain us from following in this idolatry. 

Anyone who claims to adhere to the regulative principle of worship ought to refrain from Christmas-keeping, which is a blatant violation of the second commandment. The birth of Christ is something to be studied, meditated upon and to rejoice in, but it is not to be observed as a holiday of our own devices. God has given us 52 weekly holy days per year to observe. Christmas is will worship and derogates from the true holy day, which commemorates the Lord's resurrection. 

It is my prayer that the saints will prayerfully consider these things, and abstain not only from the excesses (gluttony and greed) that mark the day in our society, and not only from the intrusion of the ecclesiastical calendar, trees, wreaths, candles and other Popish and pagan inventions in public worship, but also the private setting apart of a day to mark Christ's birth (an act which is -- or should be -- worshipful and hence regulated by the second commandment even if done in a secular, "Christless" way). The error of putting Christ into the season is not corrected by taking him out and still celebrating it. Jesus is not the reason for the season, and it is an offense to his name to observe the holiday in any way. I encourage all to mark it the way the Puritans and Pilgrims did -- as a day like any other. This is to the glory of God.

I say these things, passionately and seriously, with humility and not self-righteousness, and with the greatest of respect for my godly brethren who differ, but with the earnest desire to see God's people not fall into the ways of the heathen, but to worship God only as he has commanded. 

BTW, Josh -- I still have a bottle of Calvinus and I've been waiting for the right time and the right person to imbibe with. If you are ever this way...


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## Hamalas (Nov 19, 2008)

I think we all know that there will be Calvinus in heaven!


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## Marrow Man (Nov 19, 2008)

he beholds said:


> I want to celebrate Festivus.



Now comes the time for the airing of grievances: no one bothered to set aside any Calvinus for me!


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## Marrow Man (Nov 19, 2008)

dannyhyde said:


> Here are two bulletin inserts I wrote for my congregation, and then posted onto my blog. Keep in mind that these are not academic treatises, but basic thoughts I want my parishioners to think about during times such as Advent and Christmas.



Very nice, Danny. Would you mind if I linked your posts on my blog? And would it be ok if I included the article on Advent as an insert in our church bulletin (crediting you in both cases, of course)?


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 19, 2008)

Hamalas said:


> So you would see the private and cultural celebration of holidays to be a good thing, but the celebration in the church to be beyond the bounds of Scripture? Is that a fair way to put it?



I know this question was not geared towards me, but I felt that Dr. Horton's reference was helpful here.

On the WHI (maybe a couple months ago, I can look it up if needed although it will take a long time to go through my archives), Dr Horton mentioned that he is not against what many call seeker-sensitive or coffee shop types of evangelism. He encouraged the listeners to think outside the box, but to do it on some other day than Sunday. Sunday was set apart for God. We do not need to pollute Sunday with gimicks.


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## dannyhyde (Nov 19, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> dannyhyde said:
> 
> 
> > Here are two bulletin inserts I wrote for my congregation, and then posted onto my blog. Keep in mind that these are not academic treatises, but basic thoughts I want my parishioners to think about during times such as Advent and Christmas.
> ...



Not a problem.


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## Marrow Man (Nov 19, 2008)

Thanks! One question after re-reading the first article: does your church use an Advent wreath?


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 19, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> To speak my peace briefly, Christmas is not warranted by the Word of God with respect to public worship, or with respect to any other sphere of worship (family or private), because it involves celebrating the birth of Christ which is a worshipful act whether done on the religious level or the so-called secular level, but lacks the positive command of God to do so.



Just for clarification......

Would not Simeon's and Anna's response to seeing the baby boy be considered worship? Or how about the shepherd's praising God?

Also are we not commanded to teach the whole counsel and part of that counsel would be His virgin birth?

Do not take this to mean that I agree with or even stomach commercialized Christian Christmas, but I am not seeing the point to avoid everything about it vs. get back to the proper way of celebrating/remembering the glorious blessing that God bestowed upon mankind when He sent His Son through a virgin to ultimately die for wretched sinners such as I.

I remind you that I speak of ignorance due to being new to the Reformed faith.


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## dannyhyde (Nov 19, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> Thanks! One question after re-reading the first article: does your church use an Advent wreath?



Hi Tim,

No Advent wreaths. The only thing that is different is that I usually pause my current sermons and preach on a minor prophet during Advent. Last year I did Zephaniah and this year is Haggai and Malachi.


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## Marrow Man (Nov 19, 2008)

dannyhyde said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks! One question after re-reading the first article: does your church use an Advent wreath?
> ...



I thought not, but just wanted to be sure. And preaching on a minor prophet is a very good "tradition" of overlooked books of the Bible. That's a "tradition" I might just have to steal!


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