# Mosaic in NCT



## puritan lad (Sep 18, 2009)

New Covenant Theology suggests that the Mosaic Covenant was not "salvific", but was to point us to Christ (how something can point us to Christ and not be salvific is beyond me). Anyway, does anyone have any clear scriptural argument for tying the Mosaic Covenant to Christ, or to the Abrahamic Covenant which Christ fulfilled?

If I'm unclear, let me know and I'll explain further.


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## Peairtach (Sep 18, 2009)

Well if it wasn't salvific that means all the saints who had true faith under the Mosaic Covenant are in Hell, which must be rather sad for them, and - speaking reverently - they would also have a sure basis on which to complain to the Lord about their situation.

See the Book of Hebrews on how everything in the Mosaic or Old Covenant anticipated Christ, and could therefore be used by the Holy Spirit to bring people to faith in God as Saviour, as well as, Creator and Providential Governor.


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## Jon Peters (Sep 18, 2009)

Isn't it accurate to say that, while the Mosaic covenant surely pointed to Christ, the OT saints were saved by virtue of the promises in the Abrahamic covenant? So, in a strict sense, one can say that the Mosaic covenant was not salvific.


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## AThornquist (Sep 18, 2009)

Richard Tallach said:


> Well if it wasn't salvific that means all the saints who had true faith under the Mosaic Covenant are in Hell, which must be rather sad for them, and - speaking reverently - they would also have a sure basis on which to complain to the Lord about their situation.



That's not true - the saved have always been saved by grace through faith in the Lord. If someone lived during the time period of the Mosaic covenant and they had a "true faith," they would have been saved.



Jon Peters said:


> Isn't it accurate to say that, while the Mosaic covenant surely pointed to Christ, the OT saints were saved by virtue of the promises in the Abrahamic covenant? So, in a strict sense, one can say that the Mosaic covenant was not salvific.



Indeed.


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## jwithnell (Sep 18, 2009)

I'm studying through Hebrews which is a great place to start on this topic -- in a sermon recently, the speaker pointed out that the Old Testament believers would have had a graphic reminder of what their sin deserved in each of the sacrifices on the alter. They _demonstrated_ their faith in keeping the law.

Here's an excellent book on the topic:
[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Shadow-Christ-Law-Moses/dp/0875523757/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253302052&sr=8-1]Amazon.com: The Shadow of Christ in the Law of Moses (9780875523750): Vern S. Poythress: Books[/ame]


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## puritan lad (Sep 18, 2009)

So....what was the purpose of the Mosaic Covenant?


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## Peairtach (Sep 18, 2009)

*Quote from Athornquist*


> Quote:
> Originally Posted by Richard Tallach
> Well if it wasn't salvific that means all the saints who had true faith under the Mosaic Covenant are in Hell, which must be rather sad for them, and - speaking reverently - they would also have a sure basis on which to complain to the Lord about their situation.
> 
> That's not true - the saved have always been saved by grace through faith in the Lord. If someone lived during the time period of the Mosaic covenant and they had a "true faith," they would have been saved



Exactly, Andrew. I said _ if_ as these New Covenant theologians say. I wasn't agreeing with them.



> Isn't it accurate to say that, while the Mosaic covenant surely pointed to Christ, the OT saints were saved by virtue of the promises in the Abrahamic covenant? So, in a strict sense, one can say that the Mosaic covenant was not salvific.



Well if this is what NCT teaches that is slightly different. But I would say that the Mosaic (Old Covenant) saints could learn even more of and about Christ through the Gospel message in the ceremonial law, by the blessing of the Spirit, than even Abraham knew. 

Abraham had less special revelation that could be used by the Spirit - both salvific and ethical - than those after Moses.

*Quote from Puritan Lad*


> So....what was the purpose of the Mosaic Covenant?



The Mosaic Covenant acted as 

(a) A clear restatement by inscripturated special revelation of the moral law, that Adam and Eve had in their hearts in the Garden.

(b) A system of discipline for a childhood church/nation; just as our parents may chastise us until we reach a certain age. This kept the church/nation from going off course too much until the Promised Seed came and the Spirit was poured out in greater measure. The new Covenant mediatorial church/nation which replaces Israel has church discipline to keep it in line.

(c) A picture book Gospel in the ceremonial law. Suitable for people living before the time of Christ.

(d) A means by which the Israelites would learn just how bad they were and how desperately they were in need of God being their Saviour/providing a Saviour.

_What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator (Galatians 3:19, NKJV)_

_But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed.Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith.But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. (Galatians 3:22-26, NKJV) _


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## TeachingTulip (Sep 18, 2009)

puritan lad said:


> So....what was the purpose of the Mosaic Covenant?



As I understand it, all the ordinances given through Moses were visual types of the Lord Jesus Christ and His Priesthood; meant to draw the elect beneficiaries of the Abrahamic Covenant to faith in the promised provision of a Savior.


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## Christusregnat (Sep 18, 2009)

puritan lad said:


> New Covenant Theology suggests that the Mosaic Covenant was not "salvific", but was to point us to Christ (how something can point us to Christ and not be salvific is beyond me). Anyway, does anyone have any clear scriptural argument for tying the Mosaic Covenant to Christ, or to the Abrahamic Covenant which Christ fulfilled?
> 
> If I'm unclear, let me know and I'll explain further.



The covenant of grace (by which the elect are saved) was differently administered in the time of the law, and in the time of the Gospel: under the law it was administered by promises, prophecies, sacrifices, circumcision, the paschal lamb, and other types and ordinances delivered to the people of the Jews, all foresignifying Christ to come; which were, for that time, sufficient and efficacious, through the operation of the Spirit, to instruct and build up the elect in faith in the promised Messiah, by whom they had full remission of sins, and eternal salvation; and is called the Old Testament.

Cheers,


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## Poimen (Sep 18, 2009)

The Mosaic covenant (along with every other covenant revealed in OT scripture) is not salvific insofar it does not give us Christ in a saving way. Only faith in Christ unites us with Him that we may receive all of His benefits.

Saving faith in Christ, however, is _evident_ in every dispensation (see Hebrews 11) which gives rise to the Reformed teaching concerning the one covenant of grace that _covers_ every dispensation.

With regards to the Mosaic economy being tied to Christ see 1 Corinthians 10:1-4 & Hebrews 4:1-2.


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## AThornquist (Sep 18, 2009)

Richard Tallach said:


> *Quote from Athornquist*
> 
> 
> > Quote:
> ...



Let me clarify: I am saying I don't believe the Mosaic covenant was in and of itself salvific. I meant that if one in the Mosaic covenant had a "true faith" they were saved because of their faith in the Lord and not because of the Mosaic covenant.


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## Peairtach (Sep 18, 2009)

But what if they came to faith in the Lord as Saviour through special revelation provided by the Mosaic Covenant being blessed to them by the Spirit? Do you believe this was possible?

Many have written of how the Gospel was revealed in the Mosaic law, particularly the ceremonial law.


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## MW (Sep 18, 2009)

Romans 10:5-8, "For *Moses* describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But *the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise*, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But *what saith it*? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: *that is*, *the word of faith*, *which we preach*.

First, the Mosaic covenant itself preached wherein the righteousness of the law consisted, how it was incapable of saving sinners, and how it differed from the righteousness of God.

Secondly, the "word of faith," which the gospel preaches, is the word of Moses from the book of the covenant. Deut. 30:11-14, "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."


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## jwithnell (Sep 18, 2009)

I think when anything is said regarding salvation and the Mosaic law, most want to tread very carefully because of errors in the dispensationalist camp regarding people being saved through the law. According to the Westminster Confession, there are two covenants -- the covenant of works, under Adam, and the covenant of grace in Christ. The first Adam failed whereas the second Adam secured salvation for all believers through all time.

I appreciate O. Palmer Robertson (and forgive me if I'm less than accurate here, it's been a while since I've read or heard him) idea of the successive covenants in the Old Testament revealing more and more of the Christ who was to come -- Noah, and the way God preserves his people, Abraham and the promise that the covenant maker will also provide the means of keeping the covenant, the Mosaic Covenant and its revelation of the purity of God and the required holiness of his people ... and so forth.

Early in my Christian walk, I was blessed to do a study in Leviticus, and have been convinced from the get-go that we cannot understand Christ, without understanding what was revealed to us in the law. Just look at the beautiful picture in Leviticus where the one goat is led off to die in the wilderness carrying the sins of the people (as Christ has totally removed our sin) and the other goat slaughtered (as Christ was the perfect and complete sacrifice for us.)


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## Peairtach (Sep 18, 2009)

Yes.

I'm not saying people could be saved by keeping the law of Moses - moral, ceremonial, or judicial - or by keeping the moral law in the period from Adam to Moses, or by keeping the moral law or any other ethical parts of the Bible in this Christian administration.

The only law they could keep, by God's grace, which would save them was the command to believe.

I'm just saying that faith in God as the alone Saviour from our sins could be engendered in the heart by the Spirit using the revelation given through Moses, particularly those parts that spoke of the Gospel in baby-language to the Old Covenant, babyhood Church.


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## puritan lad (Sep 18, 2009)

armourbearer said:


> Romans 10:5-8, "For *Moses* describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. But *the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise*, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above: ) Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) But *what saith it*? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: *that is*, *the word of faith*, *which we preach*.
> 
> First, the Mosaic covenant itself preached wherein the righteousness of the law consisted, how it was incapable of saving sinners, and how it differed from the righteousness of God.
> 
> Secondly, the "word of faith," which the gospel preaches, is the word of Moses from the book of the covenant. Deut. 30:11-14, "For this commandment which I command thee this day, it is not hidden from thee, neither is it far off. It is not in heaven, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go up for us to heaven, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? Neither is it beyond the sea, that thou shouldest say, Who shall go over the sea for us, and bring it unto us, that we may hear it, and do it? But the word is very nigh unto thee, in thy mouth, and in thy heart, that thou mayest do it."



That's what i was looking for. Thanks.


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## TeachingTulip (Sep 18, 2009)

AThornquist said:


> Let me clarify: I am saying I don't believe the Mosaic covenant was in and of itself salvific. I meant that if one in the Mosaic covenant had a "true faith" *they were saved because of their faith in the Lord and not because of the Mosaic covenant.*



Correct. (Bolded emphasis of agreement, mine.)

The Mosaic Covenant (or any other of the specific covenants) were not salvific, in and of themselves.

All the O.T. covenants  indeed contain the gospel message of God's grace, in one degree or another, but it is solely belief in the word (covenant promises) of God that saves, and that belief (faith) unto salvation, comes only as the result of the Unconditional Election and grace of God,


Even the New Covenant Gospel of Grace is not always salvific.

The Gospel is (and all Godly covenants, are) a two-edged sword, which, when wielded by the Holy Spirit, either brings salvation blessings to the elect, or condemnation and judgment to reprobates, according to the will and purposes of God alone.


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## Peairtach (Sep 20, 2009)

(a) The moral law written on the tables of stone taught the Old Covenant people they were sinners.

(b) The penal law taught the people what sin deserved - "The soul that sins it shall die."

(c) The ceremonial law taught the people about the Gospel of substitutionary penal atonement.

But none of the special revelations during the three great administrations, Patriarchal, Mosaic or Christian, are salvific if the revelation is not mixed with faith in them to whom it is preached.


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## Herald (Sep 20, 2009)

*1 Corinthians 10:1-4 * For I do not want you to be unaware, brethren, that our fathers were all under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; 2 and all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea; 3 and all ate the same spiritual food; 4 and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock which followed them; and the rock was Christ. 

Whether it be the Mosaic or Abrahamic covenants, they not only _pointed _to Christ, Christ was _part _of them.


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