# New Saint Andrew's College



## Davidius (Jul 27, 2007)

Does anyone know much about this school in Moscow, ID? Some of its faculty are on board with the Federal Vision but I do not know whether this represents the schools as a whole. I ask because they are beginning a new Master of Studies in Classical Christian Education program and one option for employment I have considered is getting involved with the classical Christian education movement. If were to decide that I want to teach at a private classical Christian school, it doesn't seem like there could be a better program of graduate study. But the FV-ness makes me somewhat apprehensive. Any thoughts?


----------



## weinhold (Jul 27, 2007)

If you want to teach in a classical high school, I would recommend a degree in a discipline rather than an education degree.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 27, 2007)

weinhold said:


> If you want to teach in a classical high school, I would recommend a degree in a discipline rather than an education degree.



Wouldn't an education degree cover particular subject matter as well? I mean, this isn't like some whack-job "modern educational methods" degree from my current, God-hating university.


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 27, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Wouldn't an education degree cover particular subject matter as well? I mean, this isn't like some whack-job "modern educational methods" degree from my current, God-hating university.



An education degree is good only if you plan to teach in a public school. After Bush' No Child Left Behind, all teachers will eventually have to be certified by such a degree, godless/Christ-hating/whatever. I am currently working on such a certification from a conservative Baptist college. 

A degree in foreign languages or business is much better than an education degree. Foreign langauges et al still allow you to teach. Education, taht is all you can do.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 27, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> An education degree is good only if you plan to teach in a public school. After Bush' No Child Left Behind, all teachers will eventually have to be certified by such a degree, godless/Christ-hating/whatever. I am currently working on such a certification from a conservative Baptist college.
> 
> A degree in foreign languages or business is much better than an education degree. Foreign langauges et al still allow you to teach. Education, taht is all you can do.



Do you mean that the federal government will require private school teachers to have certain prescribed certification??


----------



## Philbeck (Jul 27, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Do you mean that the federal government will require private school teachers to have certain prescribed certification??



www.voteronpaul2008.com


----------



## toddpedlar (Jul 27, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Does anyone know much about this school in Moscow, ID? Some of its faculty are on board with the Federal Vision but I do not know whether this represents the schools as a whole. I ask because they are beginning a new Master of Studies in Classical Christian Education program and one option for employment I have considered is getting involved with the classical Christian education movement. If were to decide that I want to teach at a private classical Christian school, it doesn't seem like there could be a better program of graduate study. But the FV-ness makes me somewhat apprehensive. Any thoughts?



I wouldn't touch NSAC with a ten foot pole. Go get a good degree
in Classics (that's your undergraduate field, yes?) or Ancient Literature
as preparation. I suspect that you'd find the FV-ness oppressive (which, if
it is not utterly pervasive there, I would be shocked).

Todd


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 27, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Do you mean that the federal government will require private school teachers to have certain prescribed certification??



no. just public school teachers.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 27, 2007)

toddpedlar said:


> I wouldn't touch NSAC with a ten foot pole. Go get a good degree
> in Classics (that's your undergraduate field, yes?) or Ancient Literature
> as preparation. I suspect that you'd find the FV-ness oppressive (which, if
> it is not utterly pervasive there, I would be shocked).
> ...



My undergraduate field is technically German. I'm trying to find a way to add Classics as a second major but, since I decided I wanted to do that halfway into my undergraduate career, I'm having trouble figuring out how to make it work. It might require taking 10 semesters instead of 7 (I would be able to graduate a semester early if I stick with just German). Another option would be to do a post-baccalaureate program but that would require more money. 

Of course I would find the FV-ness oppressive, but I suppose that the rampant secularism that I would find at other schools would be equally disagreeable...or maybe not?



Spear Dane said:


> no. just public school teachers.



I'm not interested in being a public school teacher, at least not at the primary or secondary levels.


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 27, 2007)

> I'm not interested in being a public school teacher, at least not at the primary or secondary levels.



Then you don't need to worry about getting an education degree. 


Unless..........you wanted to go into higher education. That is a lucrative and rewarding field, especially if you are a Baptist. There is a lot of Baptist money floating around in higher educatiion.


----------



## Pilgrim (Jul 27, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> Then you don't need to worry about getting an education degree.
> 
> 
> Unless..........you wanted to go into higher education. That is a lucrative and rewarding field, especially if you are a Baptist. There is a lot of Baptist money floating around in higher educatiion.



Of course one need not be a Baptist to teach at a Baptist school. One example that comes to mind is Roger Schultz at Liberty.


----------



## Pilgrim (Jul 27, 2007)

Why would someone need a degree in education to go into higher ed unless they were going into administration or looking to teach education, etc.?


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 27, 2007)

Pilgrim said:


> Why would someone need a degree in education to go into higher ed unless they were going into administration or looking to teach education, etc.?



I just thought it would look good.


----------



## bookslover (Jul 27, 2007)

toddpedlar said:


> I wouldn't touch NSAC with a ten foot pole. Go get a good degree
> in Classics (that's your undergraduate field, yes?) or Ancient Literature
> as preparation. I suspect that you'd find the FV-ness oppressive (which, if
> it is not utterly pervasive there, I would be shocked).
> ...



Not to mention that Doug Wilson and his whole group up there are weird. Oops, I just mentioned it...


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Jul 28, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> Of course I would find the FV-ness oppressive, but I suppose that the rampant secularism that I would find at other schools would be equally disagreeable...or maybe not?



I can handle rampant secularism. It's Christian heterodoxy that I have the hardest time being around. There's also a "smartest Reformed guy in the room" attitude about this approach to the faith that leads to error.

I think you'd put yourself in peril over your orthodoxy going there. I highly recommend against it Brother.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 28, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> I can handle rampant secularism. It's Christian heterodoxy that I have the hardest time being around. There's also a "smartest Reformed guy in the room" attitude about this approach to the faith that leads to error.
> 
> I think you'd put yourself in peril over your orthodoxy going there. I highly recommend against it Brother.



Thanks, Rich. After reading the responses and thinking about it some more I think I began to feel the same way about being able to handle rampant secularism over slippery Christian heterodoxy. As I previously noted in the prayer forum, I am having some trouble figuring out how I should finish up my time at UNC and what I should do after graduating and this was just a passing idea that came into mind while I was looking at the website for the Association of Classical Christian Schools.


----------



## R. Scott Clark (Jul 28, 2007)

David,

There have been enough serious questions about events at NSA and there are serious questions about about the theology associated with the congregations and leadership associated with the school, that urge great caution.

We've had three NSA alumni at WSC. They have all been very bright, well-read and articulate. They are evidence that the classical model is a great improvement over what has been in use in the 20th century.

What we need is a college built on the classical model but that isn't hindered by the weird sociology and theology associated with NSA. 

NSA is, so far as I know, the only college in the USA associated with the theology of the FV which has now been rejected by nearly all of the NAPARC churches, most recently by the URCNA. This is highly problematic for the confessional Reformed college student. What of chapel? Where will one attend church? The orthodox, confessional churches in the Pacific Northwest tell horror stories about the influence of the FV and the danger of the influence of the Muscovites.

There are a couple of "Great Books" schools that do something like the classical model. There are two campuses of St John's College. One is in Annapolis, MD and the other is in NM. I've known some grads and they've done well.

As to becoming a teacher, if I understand the question, most school districts require some sort of education degree or its equivalent. My brief experience with teachers' college was very disappointing. My wife still laughs at some of what she heard and was made to do to finish her program at university. I don't know if the Christian school systems require the Ed degree or whether a major in a particular subject is sufficient. There's something to be said for learning to teach but whether the teachers' college is the place to learn to teach is in doubt.

rsc


----------



## KMK (Jul 28, 2007)

Public school teachers are required to have degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Private schools will also accept teachers with degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Not so conversely. Why not get a degree and a credential that is accredited by the state. This gives you more options. I would not recommend a young man as yourself with a future wife and hopefully children to make a vow that you will NEVER teach in a public school. Once you marry you are no longer your own. As John Lennon sang, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans."

 I hope I don't get censured for quoting Lennon...

Sincerely,

Ken Klein, husband and father and public school teacher


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 28, 2007)

KMK said:


> Public school teachers are required to have degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Private schools will also accept teachers with degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Not so conversely. Why not get a degree and a credential that is accredited by the state. This gives you more options. *I would not recommend a young man as yourself with a future wife and hopefully children to make a vow that you will NEVER teach in a public school. Once you marry you are no longer your own. As John Lennon sang, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans.*"
> 
> I hope I don't get censured for quoting Lennon...
> 
> ...



Wow. You just described what happened to me over the past year. I am going to PM you later.


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2007)

KMK said:


> Public school teachers are required to have degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Private schools will also accept teachers with degrees and credentials accredited by the state. Not so conversely. Why not get a degree and a credential that is accredited by the state. This gives you more options. I would not recommend a young man as yourself with a future wife and hopefully children to make a vow that you will NEVER teach in a public school. Once you marry you are no longer your own. As John Lennon sang, "life is what happens while you're busy making other plans."
> 
> I hope I don't get censured for quoting Lennon...
> 
> ...



Keep in mind also that private school teachers can often make next to no money - making it nearly impossible to support a family. (I mean _really_ low wages).

Why would we not want more Christians in public schools? I think you advice is very wise.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 28, 2007)

I have a few other questions but I will PM them since they may veer off from the OP.


----------



## Poimen (Jul 28, 2007)

R. Scott Clark said:


> David,
> The orthodox, confessional churches in the Pacific Northwest tell horror stories about the influence of the FV and the danger of the influence of the Muscovites.



 Yes; my advice: don't go!


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 28, 2007)

fredtgreco said:


> Keep in mind also that private school teachers can often make next to no money - making it nearly impossible to support a family. (I mean _really_ low wages).
> 
> Why would we not want more Christians in public schools? I think you advice is very wise.



Ditto. In Louisiana if a public school teacher works summer school in June, and is just beginning (0-2 years, no masters degree) he will make a little over 40,000. Not bad, but not great. However, he gets most of the summer off and AWESOME insurance benefits. And they pay slowly and steadily increases with education and experience. 

I am sure different states have difference pay scales, but go to the virginia or carolina department of education and find the corresponding link. Here is what the Louisiana site looks like
http://www.louisianaschools.net/lde/finance/1447.asp

(this has not factored in a recent pay raise nor summer school pay). 

The corresponding private school teacher will make 17,000 to 20,000 per year, no summer's off (= no summer pay), and almost no insurance benefits.


----------



## Romans922 (Jul 28, 2007)

Interesting many of the NSA's Alumni are from or are in (now) Monroe, LA.


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 28, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> Interesting many of the NSA's Alumni are from or are in (now) Monroe, LA.



Who? I know one of them, but I haven't kept up with the roll call.


----------



## weinhold (Jul 28, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> Ditto. In Louisiana if a public school teacher works summer school in June, and is just beginning (0-2 years, no masters degree) he will make a little over 40,000. Not bad, but not great. However, he gets most of the summer off and AWESOME insurance benefits. And they pay slowly and steadily increases with education and experience.
> 
> I am sure different states have difference pay scales, but go to the virginia or carolina department of education and find the corresponding link. Here is what the Louisiana site looks like
> http://www.louisianaschools.net/lde/finance/1447.asp
> ...



Not sure if my situation speaks for every private school teacher, but I made significantly more than 20,000, had summers off, and had health insurance during my three years at a classical Christian school. I taught History and 
English.

The point about needing Christian teachers in the public schools is apt; I would consider that a matter of one's own calling. Both are admirable.

I would encourage you to investigate The University of Dallas, where I attend.


----------



## KMK (Jul 28, 2007)

weinhold said:


> I would consider that a matter of one's own calling. Both are admirable.



This in few words is what I intended to say in many words.


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 28, 2007)

Jeremiah 29 says to seek the welfare of the city, for in its prosperity you will prosper.


----------



## Romans922 (Jul 28, 2007)

Well, maybe just the class of '99 http://www.nsa.edu/community/alumni1999.html


----------



## RamistThomist (Jul 28, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> Well, maybe just the class of '99 http://www.nsa.edu/community/alumni1999.html



I know Heidi and Aaron, now that you mention it.


----------

