# Posting on the Sabbath and the 4th commandment



## Scott Bushey (Dec 10, 2006)

I am sure everyone would agree that posting on secular boards boards on the sabbath are a break of the 4th commandment. Are Christian Message Boards breaking the Sabbath by allowing members to post on the Sabbath as well? 

Thoughts?

Should the PB shut down for the day?

Should we just shut down the threads that are _general_?


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## crhoades (Dec 10, 2006)

I think the idle words and thoughts portion of the confession would apply. Forums such as entertainment, sports, etc could be locked down.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 10, 2006)

Trevor, 
Would posting to secular forums be a break?


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 10, 2006)

I guess I would agree 'talking' is not a break per se; as mentioned by Chris, idle talking could be. 

Just thinkin through this


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## Timothy William (Dec 10, 2006)

What is idle talk? 95% of our after church chit chat with our fellow Christians would be condemned under the normal use of the word "idle". Beyond those things which are explicitly condemned on the Sabbath in scripture I am very wary of prohibiting certain activities on a Sunday. By all means exhort everyone to worship God to the utmost on that day - if we really did this, other things would fade away of their own accord - but trying to force people to concentrate on the things of God by binding their conciousnesses on such minor things as idle talk seem counterproductive.


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## crhoades (Dec 10, 2006)

The same guys who wrote:


> *Of Christian Liberty, and Liberty of Conscience*
> 
> I. The liberty which Christ has purchased for believers under the Gospel consists in their freedom from the guilt of sin, and condemning wrath of God, the curse of the moral law;[1] and, in their being delivered from this present evil world, bondage to Satan, and dominion of sin;[2] from the evil of afflictions, the sting of death, the victory of the grace, and everlasting damnation;[3] as also, in their free access to God,[4] and their yielding obedience unto Him, not out of slavish fear, but a child-like love and willing mind.[5] All which were common also to believers under the law.[6] But, under the New Testament, the liberty of Christians is further enlarged, in their freedom from the yoke of the ceremonial law, to which the Jewish Church was subjected;[7] and in greater boldness of access to the throne of grace,[8] and in fuller communications of the free Spirit of God, than believers under the law did ordinarily partake of.[9]
> II. God alone is Lord of the conscience,[10] and has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are, in any thing, contrary to His Word; or beside it, if matters of faith, or worship.[11] So that, to believe such doctrines, or to obey such commands, out of conscience, is to betray true liberty of conscience:[12] and the requiring of an implicit faith, and an absolute and blind obedience, is to destroy liberty of conscience, and reason also.[13]
> ...


 
Also wrote:



> VIII. This Sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering of their common affairs beforehand, do not only observe an holy rest, all the day, *from their own works, words, and thoughts about their worldly employments and recreations*,[1] but also are taken up, the whole time, in the public and private exercises of His worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy.[2]
> 
> [1] EXO 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
> EXO 16:23 And he said unto them, This is that which the Lord hath said, To morrow is the rest of the holy sabbath unto the Lord: bake that which ye will bake to day, and seethe that ye will seethe; and that which remaineth over lay up for you to be kept until the morning. 25 And Moses said, Eat that to day; for to day is a sabbath unto the Lord: to day ye shall not find it in the field. 26 Six days ye shall gather it; but on the seventh day, which is the sabbath, in it there shall be none. 29 See, for that the Lord hath given you the sabbath, therefore he giveth you on the sixth day the bread of two days; abide ye every man in his place, let no man go out of his place on the seventh day. 30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
> ...




So yes we are not to bind men unduly but I don't think the divines or Scott is coming up with this on our own.

To me if we take the Sabbath and follow Isa. 58:13 then that is training for the other six days of the week. I know I need to work on the following verses:

*Do You Speak Carelessly? *
"He who guards his mouth keeps his life, but he who opens wide his lips shall have destruction" (Proverbs 13:3).
"The heart of the righteous studies how to answer, but the mouth of the wicked pours out evil things" (Proverbs 15:28).
"Whosoever keeps his mouth and his tongue keeps his soul from troubles" (Proverbs 21:23).
"See a man who is hasty in his words? There is more hope for a fool than for him" (Proverbs 29:20).
"If any man thinks himself to be religious and does not bridle his tongue, he deceives himself and this man's religion is vain" (James 1:26).
"He who would love life and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil and his lips that they speak no guile" (1 Peter 3:10).

Our speech on this board, at home, at work, and yes after the service could use some attention.

Other verses to meditate on :
http://www.cmfnow.com/articles/pe071.htm


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 10, 2006)

These are good reminders. Ironically, I'm home this AM because the city fathers have allowed a huge Marathron run (for the last 15 or more years I think) that has gotten so large they simply officially close down all the streets in and out of our section of town for the morning. At least it is over by 1pm and I can make PM church. None of us is perfect in upholding the fourth commandment any more than the other nine. But we can be a help rather than a hinderance/stumbling block. I would vote for closing the secular discussions down for the day on PB simply from the standpoint of being a help to avoid the temptation of not being as careful as we ought in our discussions on the Lord's day. Those who don't hold to a Puritan view of the Lord's Day can go post to their hearts' content on other boards; but PB being rather officially tied to Sabbatarian standards I would think closing these forums down for the day would be a help toward upholding those standards and not stumbling others. 


crhoades said:


> The same guys who wrote:
> 
> 
> Also wrote:
> ...


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## crhoades (Dec 10, 2006)

NaphtaliPress said:


> None of us is perfect in upholding the fourth commandment any more than the other nine.



Praise Christ for His righteousness and His law keeping on our behalf.

I'm home sick today as well.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 10, 2006)

crhoades said:


> Praise Christ for His righteousness and His law keeping on our behalf.



Sorry you are sick Chris. At least I'll get out this afternoon DV.


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## Peter (Dec 10, 2006)

The end of Isaiah chapter 58 is very poignant. Like Chris, I don't think entertainment and sports are proper subject matter for discussion on the Sabbath. It'd be a good policy not go on those forums on God's Holy Day or even for the admins to lock it but I have trouble not "speaking my own words" elsewhere anyway, even in _church_! Speaking and thinking only of religious things is a difficult command to observe and I think it might be like putting new wine into old bottles to insist upon some people to do this.


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## bookslover (Dec 10, 2006)

Scott Bushey said:


> I am sure everyone would agree that posting on secular boards boards on the sabbath are a break of the 4th commandment. Are Christian Message Boards breaking the Sabbath by allowing members to post on the Sabbath as well?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ...



If you shut down any part of PB on Sundays, I'll come to Florida and dye your hair purple!

Just keep the whole thing open, and let our Christian brothers and sisters decide for themselves, before the Lord, what is appropriate or inappropriate on the Lord's Day. What some others have posted about closing down portions (or all) of the PB being tantamount to binding the consciences of others seems apropo.

Hmmm. I wonder what you would look like with purple hair?


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 10, 2006)

If we are talking about conscience and PB, the most important consciences are the owners of PB. That said, there is nothing wrong with shutting down some sections. As I said, those who care to discuss sports or something inappropriate to the Lord's day, can jolly well do it somewhere else than on a discussion board called _Puritan_. Oh the irony.



bookslover said:


> If you shut down any part of PB on Sundays, I'll come to Florida and dye your hair purple!
> 
> Just keep the whole thing open, and let our Christian brothers and sisters decide for themselves, before the Lord, what is appropriate or inappropriate on the Lord's Day. What some others have posted about closing down portions (or all) of the PB being tantamount to binding the consciences of others seems apropo.
> 
> Hmmm. I wonder what you would look like with purple hair?


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## Puritan Sailor (Dec 10, 2006)

I think the voting might be a little skewed since everyone voting so far has voted on Sunday!!!


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## SRoper (Dec 10, 2006)

Besides, it would have to be shut down by each person's declared time zone. Is that even possible?


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## crhoades (Dec 10, 2006)

First just a bit of prolegomena...

We too often look at the Sabbath/Lord's Day (as well as the rest of the law) as being a negative or keeping from things rather than a positive or imploring to something better. God has given us 6 days to do all things of our own devising as long as they are not sinful. He has asked us to set aside one day to focus on Him specifically. We are to be enjoined in edifying worship, conversation, works of mercy and necessity all the day long. What a wonderful yoke and burden - to speak of Christ and his saving benefits to all of us! Why would we want to talk politics or sports or entertainment instead of building one another up? I am ashamed at my own weakness and sinful flesh that I can't spend more time (or even want to) in the things of the Lord rather than my own desires on His day. How can we go from worshipping in the presence of our Maker and Savior one minute and have a benediction and begin talking about football or fill in the blank the next. Personally I think a large part of the lukewarmness or downrigt coldness of the church today is a failure to love God and want to spend time fellowshipping with him and other believers on Sunday. We treat it like any other day. So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that we don't desire the right things enough.

As far as closing down particular forums and binding of consciences...a few thoughts.

Again, it isn't binding people's consciences to say that people should keep the law of God. 

The reasoning is as follows: 1. The Sabbath is still binding. 2. It calls for cessation of work and seeking after self and consecrating time to the Lord. 3. We are called to observe the Sabbath as well as those sojourners who are in our gates. 4. The owners of this board hold to the WCF and catechisms and the board is under denominational oversight of people who also subscribe- the rest of us are sojourners in their gates. 5. In order to uphold the confession and ultimately the law of God then they should do their best to a. encourage fellowship and edifying conversation on the Lord's Day and b. discourage and prohibit idle talk. 

If a person's conscience is felt to be bound then it would be encumbant (after painting Scott's hair purple  ) to dig into Scripture and wrestle with Sabbath issues. With the WCF, I understand that the Sabbath/Lord's Day is binding on Christians today and it requires specifically certain things. We dare not require less or more than the law of God requires. The key is to excercise wisdom and charity in these matters and discussions in order to build up and not tear down.


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## beej6 (Dec 11, 2006)

(Yes, we'll have to wait for the Truly Reformed to vote tomorrow, won't we?  )

For what it's worth, there's one denomination website I know that is "closed" on Sundays:
http://www.fpchurch.org.uk/index.htm


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## PresReformed (Dec 11, 2006)

beej6 said:


> (Yes, we'll have to wait for the Truly Reformed to vote tomorrow, won't we?  )



But BJ....it's only 9:00 in California. Do you observe the Sabbath from evening to evening?


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## turmeric (Dec 11, 2006)

I was just thinking about this yesterday, and wondering when it would occur to someone that posting on the Sabbath might be something to think about. Well, great minds...

Anyway, if I have a vote, I vote against closing PB on Sunday, however, it would be nice to find more discussion on theology and the Scripture on this day. I crave to talk about this stuff on Sunday, not because I'm so sanctified, but because tomorrow I have to go work for the godless State, where I feel God is definitely unwelcome, and I love Sunday, because I can talk with people about God all day. It really is a rest for some of us! I regard PB as fellowship, as long as the topics are edifying. Being a girl, maybe I should't weigh in on whether football is edifying...


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## Me Died Blue (Dec 11, 2006)

I had mentioned this in a hidden forum awhile back when I was personally convicted by a realization of my own hypocrisy in attempting to discuss cigars and post-counts here on a Lord's Day. *EDIT*: And I just now realized I did a similar thing today; all the more illustrative of my shortcomings and our tendency to wander from the truth, and thus the potential benefit of doing something to specifically remind people of, in this case, the issue of the Lord's Day as it relates to our online discussion - since if we were meditating on the Gospel throughout the entire Lord's Day (as it was given us to do), we would not be prone to forget God's Law.

Pending a working-out of details like time zone issues, there are basically four options:

1) Close all or some "general" forums on the Lord's Day
2) Simply add a reminder, encouragement and request to the Board Rules (and possibly as a banner or something on the front page during Sundays) to keep the function and purpose of the Lord's Day in mind when choosing which topics to discuss
3) Change nothing
4) Other (please specify)

Personally, I am not in favor of #3, since the issue really is a simple one at heart - if I wouldn't watch a football game on the Lord's Day, I wouldn't discuss it on that day, either. Same thing for any applicable replacement in that sentence for "watch a football game." And from there it is simply a matter of us always wanting to minimize any chances of the board ever serving as an encouragement for idleness or sin, in any way possible.


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## Timothy William (Dec 11, 2006)

beej6 said:


> (Yes, we'll have to wait for the Truly Reformed to vote tomorrow, won't we?  )
> 
> For what it's worth, there's one denomination website I know that is "closed" on Sundays:
> http://www.fpchurch.org.uk/index.htm



I remember reading on a Protestant Reformed church website that they didn't accept orders for books submitted on the Lord's Day. Which seemed on one hand right that they didn't engage in commerce on that day, on the other hand the books were all of a religious nature, so the topic could not break the Sabbath. Made me think whether a bookstall open after church (or any money changing hands after church) should be discontinued.


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## rmwilliamsjr (Dec 11, 2006)

SRoper said:


> Besides, it would have to be shut down by each person's declared time zone. Is that even possible?



it be logical about it, the board would have to shut down as soon as anyone on the earth entered into Sunday and only open up when the last time zone left Sunday. Otherwise you would be encouraging someone else to "work" on the Sabbath, faciliating it, akin to going to a fast food place. so the board would have to shut down 48 hours per week. That is the total number of hours that it is the Sabbath somewhere on earth. Being as you don't know how the packets travel anyhow, you might be making someone work on their Sabbath by being online as well, even if it is not your Sabbath or the Sabbath where the board itself is located. This was the argument used in the early 19thC in the Sunday Post Office closing campaign.


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 11, 2006)

The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland website goes down on the Sabbath per local time in Scotland. True, they don't have a message board, but it does mean I could get on their site any time except from 7 p.m Saturday to 7 p.m. Sunday, or whatever.

Since Dr. McMahon is in FL, the administrators could make the decision, whatever it is, based on Eastern Time. While it wouldn't be "fair" to those outside the continental US, it would cover the majority of people who post here.


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## Me Died Blue (Dec 11, 2006)

Trevor,

One important issue that is inevitable to deal with in formulating any position at all is consistency - and where to draw the line. If discussing a Cardinals game or a piano recital for awhile is perfectly within bounds, why would you not _watch_ a football game or a recital? After all, many people would also perceive it as "rude" for a close friend or relative to not attend a very crucial game of their's or an important recital they've been waiting to do for a long time. Would you attend one of those events to keep from coming off as rude? If not, where is the principled difference? There is ultimately just as much direct and exclusive mental focus being devoted to something when one is discussing it as there is when one is watching it.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 11, 2006)

Almost 100% that it is NOT a break _generally_.


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## crhoades (Dec 11, 2006)

Scott Bushey said:


> Almost 100% that it is NOT a break _generally_.


 
Would you mind fleshing that out a bit. Not sure I understand what you're saying.


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## crhoades (Dec 11, 2006)

*Isaiah 58:13 *13 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly; 

Again, positively we are to call the Sabbath a delight. But by looking at something positively and engaging in positive duties/delights it also carries another side of the coin of refraining from other things. By definition we are not to work. 

The kicker on the whole thing is the above verse. That is what God desired at one time. The onus is to show by Scripture and with argument by good and necessary deduction that it is no longer the case. Only once the normative command/general equity of Scripture has been determined to we begin trying to see how we apply it in today's given situation of boards and individual forums.

As far as the "it's too difficult so it's not binding" argument goes. (I confess this may be a strawman or an uncharitable read on my part of some posts but treat it as a standalone argument) The law of God demands perfection. We are called not to commit adultery. That is also defined as not to even look lustfully at another woman. I'm happily married and will confess that it is hard in today's culture with TV, newsstands, even walking around in public not to have your eyes drawn away. Does that mean that the command is nullified because I can't keep it? No. It means that I must war against my flesh all the more and be all the more rejoiceful that Christ kept the law perfectly on my behalf. Jesus kept the Sabbath perfectly and did the Father's business. For some reason, the Sabbath/Lord's Day is the 1 command in the 10 that we do our best to skirt out of and my personal opinion on why it is, is because it is probably the first that can be noticed outwardly. We do a great job of concealing other sins and harboring them in our heart and away from other people. The 4th command when broken most times is pretty noticeable. 

I would encourage anyone who thinks it a burden to keep the whole day to begin studying the matter scripturally and through various puritan/reformed works before arguing against it. This is one of those areas where I've had to repent and change my mind after studying it. I'm still struggling to figure out and live out the 4th commandment. I value your encouragement and prayer and you'll have mine as well.


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## Me Died Blue (Dec 11, 2006)

Excellent thoughts, Chris.

(BTW, I think Scott was talking about the poll results, and the apparent consensus that it is not a break of the commandment to post on Christian message boards _in general_ on the Lord's Day, given that one does not post on unwarranted topics.)


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## crhoades (Dec 11, 2006)

Me Died Blue said:


> Excellent thoughts, Chris.
> 
> (BTW, I think Scott was talking about the poll results, and the apparent consensus that it is not a break of the commandment to post on Christian message boards _in general_ on the Lord's Day, given that one does not post on unwarranted topics.)


 
I would also add not only not posting on unwarranted topics but even taking heed what is posted _on_ warranted topics. Again we should be doing this anyway but I think we should go out of our way to be edifying on the Lord's day. That will be harder to moderate than just making some forums read only or locked down. It is a matter of the heart.


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## bradofshaw (Dec 11, 2006)

The straight up way the question is posed, I can't see anything wrong with utilizing the technology in itslef to talk to brothers and sisters in the lord on the sabbath. Perhaps it is a hindrance to the moderators. If so, I am all for giving them a day of rest and shutting down the boards. I usually don't have internet access on Sunday anyway, so it's not really an issue for me. 

I think the best option would be as Chris said, post a reminder on the Sabbath, restrict certain forums if necessary, and in general have different guidelines for Sabbath discussion in accordance with the convictions of the board owners (as to what is permissable). But I don't see how in and of itself, posting on an internet forum is breaking the Sabbath.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 11, 2006)

bradofshaw said:


> The straight up way the question is posed, I can't see anything wrong with utilizing the technology in itslef to talk to brothers and sisters in the lord on the sabbath. Perhaps it is a hindrance to the moderators. If so, I am all for giving them a day of rest and shutting down the boards. I usually don't have internet access on Sunday anyway, so it's not really an issue for me.
> 
> I think the best option would be as Chris said, post a reminder on the Sabbath, restrict certain forums if necessary, and in general have different guidelines for Sabbath discussion in accordance with the convictions of the board owners (as to what is permissable). But I don't see how in and of itself, posting on an internet forum is breaking the Sabbath.


This pretty much sums it up in my opinion.


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## crhoades (Dec 11, 2006)




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## ADKing (Dec 11, 2006)

It is very encouraging to observe such an exchange. Oh that God's people would have such a heart to leave off all things for the simple purpose of pursuing him all the day on his Sabbath! 

I have long admired the FPs of Scotland for their stand on the issue (I believe the Trinitarian Bible Society also shuts down their online store on the Sabbath--Greenwich time??). 

As a minister it is a particular burden of mine to positively encourage members to have appropiraite discussions after church. It is almost depressing to hear a sermon on seeking first the kingdom of God (or whatever elese) and then immediately have an entire congregation talking about everything pertaining to this world! I realise this is sometimes a slow process of sanctification in all of us and cannot be forced--but perhaps we can all be a little more disciplined than we are accustomed to in this regard. I remember a story from I. Murray's short life of John Murray where the professor tells his students on the way to church "we do not talk about such things on the Sabbath." Without being rude, perhaps this may be a helpful admonition to those we know well. Some of my happiest times in this life have been Sabbaths well spent (even though not perfectly). This makes me want to strive to keep them all better. 

Looking forward to my eternal Sabbath rest...


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## Augusta (Dec 11, 2006)

I too, have been convicted about my activities on the Sabbath. I agree with Chris R. that it is better to "go out of our way to be edifying on the Lord's day." I think that idea of a banner with an admonition to honor the Sabbath is the _least_ we could do.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 11, 2006)

crhoades said:


> Would you mind fleshing that out a bit. Not sure I understand what you're saying.



The poll results.........I didn't vote btw.


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## historyb (Dec 11, 2006)

Scott Bushey said:


> I am sure everyone would agree that posting on secular boards boards on the sabbath are a break of the 4th commandment. Are Christian Message Boards breaking the Sabbath by allowing members to post on the Sabbath as well?
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> ...



I think that may be taking things a bit far, but that's mho for what it's worth.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 11, 2006)

I didn't vote either, because it depends (i.e. didn't like my choices ).


Scott Bushey said:


> The poll results.........I didn't vote btw.


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## crhoades (Dec 11, 2006)

NaphtaliPress said:


> I didn't vote either, because it depends (i.e. didn't like my choices ).


 
Precisionist.


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## MW (Dec 11, 2006)

Judging by the poll and the discussion I'm in a minority, which makes me concerned to go back and investigate the principle upon which I think it is Sabbath breaking. I don't believe using a medium for holy purposes sanctifies the medium. The bookshop illustration above was very fitting. The bare fact that the books are Christian does not constitute the act of buying and selling an appropriate action on the Lord's day. Likewise, the fact that the Puritan board is used for Christian discussion does not constitute the use of discussion boards a sanctified action. Unless it can be shown that the medium itself is necessary in order to sanctify the Sabbath, then my conscience convicts me that it is a breaking of the Sabbath commandment to utilise the medium.


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## historyb (Dec 11, 2006)

One thing I forgot to add is I thought we were under the law of grace, not under the law of sin no more.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 11, 2006)

Doug,
Does this mean we are no longer responsible to keep the 4th commandment?


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 11, 2006)

Scott Bushey said:


> Doug,
> Does this mean we are no longer responsible to keep the 4th commandment?


Or 1, 2, 3, 5-10?


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 11, 2006)

Ok, I am going to step in and break the silent majorities silence and run the risk of ruffeling a few feathers in the process. What drew and continues to draw me to the Puritan Board is the seriousness that it's members take the Lord and His word. I was so sick of wishy-washy evangelism that I literally ran from the Church I was attending and was DONE shopping for another. I was that dejected.

I was so excited to find this place and all of you! 

Now many of you are more learned than I am, many of you have studied theology for much longer, have many more books, degrees, and accolades than me as well. But I have to ask...

Where does personal conviction come into this? If after much scripture reading and prayer I still feel no conviction for posting here on Sunday's or watching the NFL on Sunday's, am I damned, stupid, not a good Christian, wrong, mislead, posessed, or all of the above?

I see some crying "legalism" toward Paul Washer sermons yet no one cries it in topics such as these. I've always believed our human attempts to please God were futile and pointless no matter how much we could spiritualize them or back them with scripture.

It seems to me that some of you enjoy posting here on Sundays and on ocasion you may even ask someone about a non-spiritual situation..on a Sunday! Some of you are convicted by this and some are not. So what's wrong with those who are convicted by it no longer posting on Sunday and those who are not continuing on as is? Do I have to be restricted so to make someone elses temptation less burdomsome?

Are you convicted by the Spirit of God for posting here or by your desire to please God with your actions? There is a difference in my opinion and it's a fairly big one. I am reminded on the man who thanked God he wasn't like the tax collector...

Sorry if this upsets anyone. I feellike there may be many who feel this way (look at the poll results!) and simply aren't saying anything because the thread is dominated by those who are in the minority of the vote.

Lastly, if it ever comes down to mods being "hindered" on the sabbath then allow me to stand up and say I'll mod on Sunday's with no problem at all.


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## MrMerlin777 (Dec 11, 2006)

Well, and charitably said Adam.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 11, 2006)

houseparent said:


> Ok, I am going to step in and break the silent majorities silence and run the risk of ruffeling a few feathers in the process. What drew and continues to draw me to the Puritan Board is the seriousness that it's members take the Lord and His word. I was so sick of wishy-washy evangelism that I literally ran from the Church I was attending and was DONE shopping for another. I was that dejected.
> 
> I was so excited to find this place and all of you!
> 
> ...



Adam,
I don't believe it makes one a bad Christian. As I have told my wife, 'you need to keep after this, to see if what we say is true'. I suggest trying to _reform_ those of us whom hold to a stricter sabbath.  



> I see some crying "legalism" toward Paul Washer sermons yet no one cries it in topics such as these.



The issue w/ Washer, from what I have heard, is that he almost places an unconventional emphasis upon a work that may seem to justify.




> I've always believed our human attempts to please God were futile and pointless no matter how much we could spiritualize them or back them with scripture.



None the less, God has commanded it, hence, it is done.



> It seems to me that some of you enjoy posting here on Sundays and on ocasion you may even ask someone about a non-spiritual situation..on a Sunday! Some of you are convicted by this and some are not. So what's wrong with those who are convicted by it no longer posting on Sunday and those who are not continuing on as is? Do I have to be restricted so to make someone elses temptation less burdomsome?



I hear you. The board however comes under the RPCGA.



> Are you convicted by the Spirit of God for posting here or by your desire to please God with your actions? There is a difference in my opinion and it's a fairly big one. I am reminded on the man who thanked God he wasn't like the tax collector...



Both are important. One fuels the other.


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## staythecourse (Dec 11, 2006)

*Isaiah 58*

Even though it's already been brought up a few times, I adhere increasing more to having all words, thoughts, deeds on the Sabbath Day set apart for the Lord - that is our goal. I don't believe we need to over-analyze what Isaiah is saying to us throughout time. Also, many great saints (Edwards comes to mind) made it part of his weekly living to avoid worldly chatter and "force himself" to stay on track with the happy burden of holy speech my brother spoke of in his statement on Isaiah 58:13. If the Spirit were leading a brother, they would not need blocks on sports, cigars, etc on the Lord's day. Conscience would be keeping him from it. Should the whole site be shut down? No. Even the Amish use a telephone in case of an emergency - it would be a sin not to use a set apart site like this one for even better use - holier use - on His Day. So, constrain yourself and you'll be blessed!


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 11, 2006)

> The issue w/ Washer, from what I have heard, is that he almost places an unconventional emphasis upon a work that may seem to justify.



Scott, you know my passion for the D.o.G., I mean you had to call me at HOME to get me to calm down (lol) but what some hear in Washer's sermons, I hear at the Puritan Board all the time. Here's the thing though, I assume that's NOT what's meant here at the Puritan Board the same way I assume that about Washer. But often, I can read things to sound as if that's what they are saying. "Do this and work to be justified! Here see, it's in scripture!"



> None the less, God has commanded it, hence, it is done.



ABSOLUTELY, but doesn't that entail God doing it? We all have that down solid in regard to salvation but in regard to sactification we seem to miss the same point. We want to mold our society (and message board) so that we are forced to be as sancatified as we think all should be rather than allow God to work in His people as He sees fit. It's sort of like Arminian Santification, we must contribute to it in some way. 



> I hear you. The board however comes under the RPCGA.



I'm going to need you to explain what that means exactly.

Let me say this though, while the evangelical church sufferes greatly from lack of leadership, submission to authority, creeds, etc. the reformed church suffers greatly under strict and burdonsome rules for every possible facit of life. I often wonder if there is a rule somewhere that may tell me I am in sin because I do not part my hair on the right side (I don't have a part at all actually). That rule may be found in the RCODHB (The reformed confessions on daily hair brushing).



> Both are important. One fuels the other.



Agreed! But it's important which does which. The Spirit of God moves us to act thus changing our desires. We can try to desire something all day long and that doesn't mean the Spirit will move. This reminds me of "Charismatic Tongues". They tell you to just "want it" to just open your mouth and say something and the Spirit will take over. That's not how it works. The Spirit moves and we act and change. We're not going to coax him along.

Again, I am sorry to any and all I upset with this reply. If you are disgusted by it blame it on my little experience within the reformed Church still of this date.


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 11, 2006)

> If the Spirit were leading a brother, they would not need blocks on sports, cigars, etc on the Lord's day. Conscience would be keeping him from it.



AMEN!

But is this an absolute? Meaning if I watch sports or talk about sigars on a Sunday I am a weak Christian who is not lead by the Spirit? I don't believe that. I could be wrong and will admit to such if I ever come to that conclusion, but as of today the Lord, His word, and my prayers do not lead me to that conviction at all.


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## crhoades (Dec 11, 2006)

houseparent said:


> Ok, I am going to step in and break the silent majorities silence and run the risk of ruffeling a few feathers in the process.


No feathers ruffled here. I do want to take time to give a response to your post since you took the time to type it. I know that you post because you love the brethren.


> What drew and continues to draw me to the Puritan Board is the seriousness that it's members take the Lord and His word...
> I was so excited to find this place and all of you!


 




> Where does personal conviction come into this? If after much scripture reading and prayer I still feel no conviction for posting here on Sunday's or watching the NFL on Sunday's, am I damned, stupid, not a good Christian, wrong, mislead, posessed, or all of the above?


Where does personal conviction come into this? Refer back to page 1 my second post where I copy and pasted the WCF on Liberty of Conscience. Especially sections II. and III.


> II. God alone is Lord of the conscience, and has left it free from the doctrines and commandments of men, which are, in any thing, contrary to His Word; or beside it, if matters of faith, or worship. So that, to believe such doctrines, or to obey such commands, out of conscience, is to betray true liberty of conscience: and the requiring of an implicit faith, and an absolute and blind obedience, is to destroy liberty of conscience, and reason also.
> III. They who, upon pretence of Christian liberty, do practice any sin, or cherish any lust, do thereby destroy the end of Christian liberty, which is, that being delivered out of the hands of our enemies, we might serve the Lord without fear, in holiness and righteousness before Him, all the days of our life.


The sticky wicket that we're trying to ferret out is the balance between the two. We don't want to burden PB members with the doctrines and commandments of men but neither do we want to provide a stumbling block for anyone to practice sin and destroy Christian liberty.

You said that you have spent much time in scripture reading and prayer. Please share scripturally where you have found it ok to do various things on the Sabbath. The divines appended Isaiah 58:13 to the portion of the confession on the Sabbath about refraining from going your own way and doing your own desires. I also brought that text out and laid out the need to deal with it and the moral law in general showing that it is no longer binding on a Christian today. I have yet to see anyone deal with that text exegetically. 

And as far as being "damned, stupid, not a good Christian, wrong, mislead, posessed, or all of the above" - The Lord knows your heart and mind. The only one that I would even consider (very meekly) tossing your way would be wrong - but even there I would like to see why you came to your conclusions first.



> I see some crying "legalism" toward Paul Washer sermons yet no one cries it in topics such as these. I've always believed our human attempts to please God were futile and pointless no matter how much we could spiritualize them or back them with scripture.


I've tried my best to show that we should approach the 4th commandment positively calling it a delight, an easy burden, and also praising that Christ has kept the law on our behalf and we should seek to serve him out of gratitude. 

I don't remember anyone bringing this up as a way to earn God's favor. It's still about the 5 solas. However the same apostle who preached free grace also wrote Romans 6



> 1What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? 2By no means! How can we who died to sin still live in it?
> 
> 12Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal bodies, to make you obey their passions. 13Do not present your members to sin as instruments for unrighteousness, but present yourselves to God as those who have been brought from death to life, and your members to God as instruments for righteousness. 14For sin will have no dominion over you, since you are not under law but under grace.


 


> It seems to me that some of you enjoy posting here on Sundays and on ocasion you may even ask someone about a non-spiritual situation..on a Sunday! Some of you are convicted by this and some are not. So what's wrong with those who are convicted by it no longer posting on Sunday and those who are not continuing on as is? Do I have to be restricted so to make someone elses temptation less burdomsome?


 
Again the issue is stewardship of the owners of the board. Matt is ordained and takes his vows seriously of upholding the WCF as does his denomination. As a Christian he is called to take heed to his life and doctrine for it will save hisself and his hearers 1 Tim. 4:16. With all of that being the case it would be a _loving_ thing for Matt to lock down certain forums rather than _restricting_. We should be thankful that Scott asked this question out of concern. I am.


> Are you convicted by the Spirit of God for posting here or by your desire to please God with your actions? There is a difference in my opinion and it's a fairly big one. I am reminded on the man who thanked God he wasn't like the tax collector...


My actions will please God as about as much as a dunghill. Actually infinitely less so because the dunghill is doing its part as creation and stinking. I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. Again, why is it restricting to desire oneself and other Christians around you to spend time worshipping and meditating on the Creator and savior of your very persons? All he asks is one day out of 7.



> Sorry if this upsets anyone. I feellike there may be many who feel this way (look at the poll results!) and simply aren't saying anything because the thread is dominated by those who are in the minority of the vote.


Like many, I didn't vote either because I don't think generally posting is wrong. That's why early on - the second post I brought up the distinction about idle words...Also, I hope I wasn't dominating the thread. I too, like you, was sharing the fruits of my studies and was trying to be encouraging and edifying by sharing scripture and the confession.


> Lastly, if it ever comes down to mods being "hindered" on the sabbath then allow me to stand up and say I'll mod on Sunday's with no problem at all.


Totally up to the admins on that one but I think it would be inconsistent of them if they decide that it is wrong to then let others partake in it.

I hope I treated your post fairly. If I didn't at any point, please forgive me. Hopefully this will encourage further dialogue and reflection on both of our parts.


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## NaphtaliPress (Dec 11, 2006)

This simply means Adam, that you don't hold to the Puritan view of the Lord's day. I understand everyone is not in the "same place" or may ever be. But for a board to call itself the PuritanBoard and allow such discussions on the Lord' day (side stepping the whole question of being up or closed for the day) in my mind is, to put it midly, very inconsistent. Or maybe the PuritanBoard is _Puritan _like the PCA is _Presbyterian_? (or _Puritan _for that matter; need duck and cover smilie). And honestly, most PCA members are where you are. But this is the PB after all and I for one am ready for it to live up more to it's namesake, at least as far as this subject is concerned. Or wasn't Sabbatarianism the sine qua non of Puritanism? 



houseparent said:


> AMEN!
> 
> But is this an absolute? Meaning if I watch sports or talk about sigars on a Sunday I am a weak Christian who is not lead by the Spirit? I don't believe that. I could be wrong and will admit to such if I ever come to that conclusion, but as of today the Lord, His word, and my prayers do not lead me to that conviction at all.


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## staythecourse (Dec 11, 2006)

*Benefits vs Liabilities*

It would make a big differenceion the way we conducted ourselves _the rest of the week_ on this site if this site did close down Lord's Day to the bare essentials - Prayer forum for example. Again, this would be to sanctify the site and ourselves about what the Lord's day is about. Communion with each other is great but the local body should take precedent and worldly chatter amognst us could be given a great blow.


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## bookslover (Dec 11, 2006)

Augusta said:


> I think that idea of a banner with an admonition to honor the Sabbath is the _least_ we could do.



Considering that (1) it is most voters' opinion that posting on PB is not a violation of the Fourth Commandment, and (2) the widely varying opinions as to what _does_ constitute such a violation, I agree with Augusta: (1) just leave the board alone, just as it is, (2) possibly post a banner reminding folks of edifying talk on the day, then (3) just leave it up to individual Christians to decide for themselves, in the light of Christian liberty, whether they should participate or not.


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## Augusta (Dec 11, 2006)

bookslover said:


> Considering that (1) it is most voters' opinion that posting on PB is not a violation of the Fourth Commandment, and (2) the widely varying opinions as to what _does_ constitute such a violation, I agree with Augusta: (1) just leave the board alone, just as it is, (2) possibly post a banner reminding folks of edifying talk on the day, then (3) just leave it up to individual Christians to decide for themselves, in the light of Christian liberty, whether they should participate or not.




For the record Richard I said that a banner is the *least *we could do. I actually would respect a decision to close the board on Sundays. Especially if the board owners are bound by their own conscience to do so. I lean toward the more conservative stance and defer to my elders in years and scriptural knowledge in this case. 

***Just as an aside here since it was brought up...Paul Washer is in no way a legalist. He simply echos Jesus, James, and Paul when they say faith without works is dead. He is attacking this strongly because of the state of the church today and everyone and their mother thinking they are a Christian when if they truly were they would be much more sensitive to sin in their life and showing some good fruit. They live just like the world with no visible difference. Instead of examining themselves in light of scripture they compare themselves with their pagan neighbor or the carnal christians in their church. 

Anyone who took the time to listen to a few of his sermons would see that he pounds the DoG all the time just as strongly if not more. Baptist or no he is willing to step up and say this stuff when most people are afraid to for the very reason that they will be called a legalist.


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## Puddleglum (Dec 12, 2006)

So I'm probably jumping in on this because it's the end of the quarter and I'm tired of studying, which is a dubious motive, but anyways . . . 

I don't really see how reading a book Sunday evening after coming home from church, and getting on PB when I come home and reading a couple of threads are necessarily different. In both cases, I'm reading somebody's explination of Scriptural truths. 

I also don't see the fundamental difference between talking to someone in person about their struggles and telling them that I'll pray for them (and/or praying for them then), and getting on PB and reading the posts in the prayer forum, and praying for them. 

Yes, the PB has potential for abuse - we could all theoretically get on, and spend Sunday afternoon talking about the football game we're watching. But as already noted - the same thing happens at church. But that doesn't mean that PB is necessarily wrong and should be gotten rid of, just like we're not going to tell people to go home right after the worship service because their conversations might degenerate into something less than edifying. (Which goodness knows I'm plenty guilty of myself). 

That all said . . . I don't think that PB is equal to "live" fellowship. But there are often times on Sunday when I'm by myself, and I'll use some of that time to browse PB. If I use PB as a way of avoiding dealing "live" with other believers, or spending time reading my Bible (not that I've ever even thought of doing those! - not.), then that's wrong, I think. But a potential for abuse doesn't make something necessarily wrong. 

And I think that a lot of it is a personal issue of conscience - as was also already mentioned. I could be on PB - and just on the prayer and theology forums - for all the wrong reasons. Or for all the right reasons. (And I bet that there are also wrong, not just right, reasons for avoiding PB). And since it's an issue of the heart, making rules (or locking down the forum), won't deal with it. (Though putting a banner up might be a good reminder). 

However, if keeping PB open on Sunday would violate the owner's conscience, well, I think the rest of us will have to respect that.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Dec 12, 2006)

When you are celebrating the Lord's Day I am at work on a Monday morning...


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## jaybird0827 (Dec 12, 2006)

In the light of scripture and the counsel I'm getting from this thread, both sides of the question, I will choose to be content with the 6 days of the week the Lord has clearly given me for this activity - going forward. Thank you.


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## historyb (Dec 12, 2006)

Scott Bushey said:


> Doug,
> Does this mean we are no longer responsible to keep the 4th commandment?



Well, I'm thinking in a strict sense yes. Now I very well could be wrong, happens sometimes. 

I get it from St. Paul:



> 10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."[a] 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"-- 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.


Gal 3:10-18



> 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.


Gal 5:18



> In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.


Hebrews 8:13

and also that law wasn't ours, but Israel's. God's law is written on our hearts and minds now:



> 16"This is the covenant that I will make with them
> after those days, declares the Lord:
> I will put my laws on their hearts,
> and write them on their minds,"


Hebrews 10:16

Is sabbath made for men or men made for the sabbath

Of course I could be wrong.


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## ChristopherPaul (Dec 12, 2006)

I am not sure if I can clearly say that posting is a break of the 4th commandment; however, personally I rarely browse the boards, post or even use my computer at all on Lord's Day. For me, the computer is a daily "work" that I must use for my vocation and my pleasure, so I refrain on Lord's Day. Besides, with morning and evening service, catechism classes, and fellowship at my church, there is little 'alone time' for me to even boot up a PC.

I do think it is a break to engage in idle talk and I support the board taking steps to help the brethren avoid temptation.


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## crhoades (Dec 12, 2006)

historyb said:


> Well, I'm thinking in a strict sense yes. Now I very well could be wrong, happens sometimes.
> 
> I get it from St. Paul:
> 
> ...


 
Don't have time for a long post...Just like marriage, dominion, and multiplying the Sabbath is a creation ordinance. It was not instituted at Sinai. In Exodus 16 you find the Israelites gathering double manna on the day before the Sabbath so as to not have to gather on the day. So just like the thou shalt not commit adultery and all of the laws against incest, rape, adultery etc. the Sabbath _in its moral aspect_ is still binding and everything it entails. I think a case is usually made that the Sabbath year, Jubilee year, and other festivals, new moons, and sabbaths are now done away with as they are ceremonial but I don't think the 1 day in 7 - the weekly Sabbath and its observance has been. 

Is marriage made for man or man for marriage. Either way there are still things we are to refrain from.

The law is now written on our hearts because from the heart comes the actions of man. That actually should be encouraging to us that we can better keep the Sabbath than our brothers in the old covenant.


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## staythecourse (Dec 12, 2006)

*Purification of the site on Lord's Day*

If Puritan Board were Jerusalem and Nehemiah were at the gate on the Lord's Day, what would he refuse to permit on God's Day?

These jump out glaringly:
"Let's do business"
"Entertainment and Humor"

and these less so:
"Politics and Gov't"
"Puritan Pub"
"Computers and Technology"
"Iron Chef"

What would he clearly permit? If the site/Jerusalem were set aside for God alone and His worship:

"Pray ye like this"
The Theological Forums
Reformed Chat Room even for godly speech.
Others that are strictly for Christian edification/education

We could loosen the reins the rest of the week for all the subjects. We have to be accountable to one another.

To my brother from New Zealand, perhaps some hi-tech tag could identify you as being in a particular time zone. This would allow you access to all sites unless it was your Lord's Day. 

Again, this is not to burden us but to tighten up shabby living on the Lord's Day. I am sure it would help us be sanctified the rest of the week. The tenor of the site would change, too.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 12, 2006)

> Well, I'm thinking in a strict sense yes. Now I very well could be wrong, happens sometimes.
> 
> I get it from St. Paul:






> 10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse



What do you think Paul meant when he used the term, "rely"?



> for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith."[a] 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them." 13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us--for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"-- 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.



The above is a contrast of the C of W and the C of G.



> 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law.



If you are led by the Spirit, you have been justified and do not look to the law to justify.



> In speaking of a new covenant, he makes the first one obsolete. And what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away


.

Again, a contrast between the old covenant (C of W) and the new covenant (C of G). No conflict here in that Paul is assuredly not telling these people to not keep to the law, but that the law doesn't justify.




> and also that law wasn't ours, but Israel's.



Can you expound upon this statement?



> God's law is written on our hearts and minds now:



When did the 'now' occur?

Quote:


> 16"This is the covenant that I will make with them
> after those days, declares the Lord:
> I will put my laws on their hearts,
> and write them on their minds,"



Was the above not the case for Abraham?


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## historyb (Dec 12, 2006)

The law was made for them, not for us now is what I meant


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 12, 2006)

historyb said:


> The law was made for them, not for us now is what I meant



Who is 'them'?


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## crhoades (Dec 12, 2006)

historyb said:


> The law was made for them, not for us now is what I meant


 
So of the three uses of the law, we don't need the law now to drive us to Christ or to show us how to live a life out of gratitude now?



> WCF 19
> V. The moral law does forever bind all, as well justified persons as others, to the obedience thereof;[8] and that, not only in regard of the matter contained in it, but also in respect of the authority of God the Creator, who gave it.[9] Neither does Christ, in the Gospel, any way dissolve, but much strengthen this obligation.[10]
> VI. Although true believers be not under the law, as a covenant of works, to be thereby justified, or condemned;[11] yet is it of great use to them, as well as to others; in that, as a rule of life informing them of the will of God, and their duty, it directs and binds them to walk accordingly;[12] discovering also the sinful pollutions of their nature, hearts and lives;[13] so as, examining themselves thereby, they may come to further conviction of, humiliation for, and hatred against sin,[14] together with a clearer sight of the need they have of Christ, and the perfection of His obedience.[15] It is likewise of use to the regenerate, to restrain their corruptions, in that it forbids sin:[16] and the threatenings of it serve to show what even their sins deserve; and what afflictions, in this life, they may expect for them, although freed from the curse thereof threatened in the law.[17] The promises of it, in like manner, show them God's approbation of obedience,and what blessings they may expect upon the performance thereof:[18] although not as due to them by the law as a covenant of works.[19] So as, a man's doing good, and refraining from evil, because the law encourages to the one and deters from the other, is no evidence of his being under the law: and not under grace.[20]
> VII. Neither are the forementioned uses of the law contrary to the grace of the Gospel, but do sweetly comply with it;[21] the Spirit of Christ subduing and enabling the will of man to do that freely, and cheerfully, which the will of God, revealed in the law, requires to be done.[22] *(Chris: What a great statement!!! How expierential!)*


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 12, 2006)

Romans 7:12-25 12 So then, the Law is holy, and the commandment is holy and righteous and good. 13 Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful. 14 For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. 15 For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. 16 But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good. 17 So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. 18 For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. 19 For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. 20 But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. 21 I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good. 22 For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, 23 but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

Romans 2:13 13 for not the hearers of the Law are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified.

Romans 3:30-31 30 since indeed God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith is one. 31 Do we then nullify the Law through faith? May it never be! On the contrary, we establish the Law.

1 Corinthians 9:8-9 8 I am not speaking these things according to human judgment, am I? Or does not the Law also say these things? 9 For it is written in the Law of Moses, "You shall not muzzle the ox while he is threshing." God is not concerned about oxen, is He?

~Why would Paul say these things if the law was not important?

and here again:

1 Corinthians 14:34 34 Let the women keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but let them subject themselves, just as the Law also says.


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## historyb (Dec 12, 2006)

well I you all I was mostly likely wrong

At this I am a newbie


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## SRoper (Dec 12, 2006)

I think we should close the PB while I'm at work so I'm not tempted to break the 8th commandment.


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## turmeric (Dec 12, 2006)

staythecourse said:


> If Puritan Board were Jerusalem and Nehemiah were at the gate on the Lord's Day, what would he refuse to permit on God's Day?
> 
> These jump out glaringly:
> "Let's do business"
> ...



I think we should at least lock the business forum and the political ones, and yes, the entertainment ones on Sunday. I think Rev. Winzer will likely behave himself without locking him out, I notice he seems to refrain from posting on his Lord's Day.

I'd love to see the prayer and theological forums open and actually being used on Sunday. We could maybe even have a forum specifically for discussing the sermons we'd heard, and that some of you preached each week.


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## crhoades (Dec 12, 2006)

turmeric said:


> We could maybe even have a forum specifically for discussing the sermons we'd heard, and that some of you preached each week.


 
  
I think this has been the best idea generated this whole thread. I recommend we do this regardless of the Sabbath issue. 

Outlines and even links to the audio could be posted. I would recommend that we establish a format for the Title of the thread that would include date-Text-Title-Speaker for ease of navigating through the sermons later. We don't want to reinvent Sermon audio but hey a little organization never hurt anyone...


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 12, 2006)

SRoper said:


> I think we should close the PB while I'm at work so I'm not tempted to break the 8th commandment.



Ohhhhhhhh


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