# Is this in the Bible? "For yours is the kingdom, power, and glory forever. Amen.



## N. Eshelman

I have been preaching through the Lord's Prayer in our afternoon service and have come to the last part of the Lord's Prayer. 

I have a question, and I would be interested in hearing especially what people do who stand in the 'critical text' tradition. (For disclosure, I use.. and love... the ESV; but prefer the received text tradition). 

Here's the conflict: The end to the Lord's Prayer is merely a footnote in the ESV/NIV/NASB/NRSV etc. BUT, it is a part of our Confessional Standards. 

1. How do we reconcile that we believe this confessionally, yet put it in the footnotes of most of our Bibles?
2. How do you (do you at all) preach this text? (For the pastors)
3. How do we explain this debate to a congregation without shaking their faith in the Word of God being faithful, infallible, and inerrant?

Looking forward to some good, fruitful, and charitable discussion as I prepare to preach _from the footnotes_! 

Warmly, 
Nate


----------



## AThornquist

_Great_ questions! I'm really looking forward to this discussion.


----------



## Christusregnat

Last time I checked it were there


----------



## N. Eshelman

...bumpity, bump, bump...


----------



## Bengibor

that clause is definitely in the Bible. It's also in my NKJV  which I prefer over other contemporary English translations, not only because of the beauty and rhythm preserved from 1611 AV, but also because it's based on Textus Receptus which is again heavily backed by the majority of Byzantine manuscripts and a host of patristics. 

What appears to be a real problem with the clause is its likely omission (probably by mistake) in the Latin Itala which later spread in Latin speaking parts of the church. 

It appears in Didache, one of the earliest Christian documents probably compiled before the end of the 1st century, then in Tatian's Diatessaron, Old Syriac version (Peshitta) 3rd Century: Coptic and Sahidic (i.e. Egyptian) versions 4th Century: Apostolic Constitutions, it is quoted by Chrysostom and other church fathers.


----------



## py3ak

Whatever your position on the textual variant, it is substantially in Scripture - 1 Chronicles 29:11.


----------



## CharlieJ

For those without this resource:



Metzger's Textual Commentary said:


> 6.13 ponhrou/) {A}
> 
> The ascription at the close of the Lord’s Prayer occurs in several forms. In K L W D Q P ¦13 al it is the familiar triple strophic form, whereas the Sahidic and Fayyumic (like the form quoted in the Didache) lack h` basilei,a kai,, the Curetonian Syriac lacks h` du,namij kai,, and the Old Latin k reads simply “for thine is the power for ever and ever.” Some Greek manuscripts expand “for ever” into “for ever and ever,” and most of them add “amen.” Several late manuscripts (157 225 418) append a trinitarian ascription, “for thine is the kingdom and the power and the glory of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit for ever. Amen.” The same expansion occurs also at the close of the Lord’s Prayer in the liturgy that is traditionally ascribed to St. John Chrysostom.
> 
> The absence of any ascription in early and important representatives of the Alexandrian (a B), the Western (D and most of the Old Latin), and other (¦1) types of text, as well as early patristic commentaries on the Lord’s Prayer (those of Tertullian, Origen, Cyprian), suggests that an ascription, usually in a threefold form, was composed (perhaps on the basis of 1 Chr 29.11-13) in order to adapt the Prayer for liturgical use in the early church. Still later scribes added “of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”14



The idea that it was added for liturgy seems rather conjectural, but then again, the lack of manuscript evidence in several different text-families is somewhat compelling.


----------



## Scott1

> Matthew 6
> 
> 1Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven.
> 
> 2Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
> 
> 3But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth:
> 
> 4That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly.
> 
> 5And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
> 
> 6But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly.
> 
> 7But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking.
> 
> 8Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
> 
> 9After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
> 
> 10Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
> 
> 11Give us this day our daily bread.
> 
> 12And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
> 
> 13And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.


.


----------



## Christusregnat

Your Catechism directs you that it is there:



> Q. 196. What doth the conclusion of the Lord’s Prayer teach us?
> 
> A. The conclusion of the Lord’s Prayer, (which is, For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.[1295]) teacheth us to enforce our petitions with arguments,[1296] which are to be taken, not from any worthiness in ourselves, or in any other creature, but from God;[1297] and with our prayers to join praises,[1298] ascribing to God alone eternal sovereignty, omnipotency, and glorious excellency;[1299] in regard whereof, as he is able and willing to help us,[1300] so we by faith are emboldened to plead with him that he would,[1301] and quietly to rely upon him, that he will fulfil our requests.[1302] And, to testify this our desire and assurance, we say, Amen.[1303]



That should help in determining your obligation to preach from the text.

God bless,

Adam


----------



## Michael

Here is useful discussion on this topic (now locked as an archive): http://www.puritanboard.com/f63/question-confessional-cter-28943/]Question for the Confessional CTer


----------



## DMcFadden

Interesting question. It doesn't make it into the 4th century Alexandrian text but does show up in the first/second turn of the century Didache!

The Peshitta has it even though the later Latin does not. The words are also found in ninety-nine out of a hundred of the Greek copies, including Φ and Σ of the end of the fifth and beginning of the sixth centuries. 

Yet, for those of us CT types, we have the "oldest and most reliable mss," that is to say, the Alexandrian text from the early 4th century leaving it out while the first/second century Didache has it. Hmmmmmm.


----------

