# Climate change correlated with nationality



## SRoper (Oct 15, 2007)

Two questions: What is your nationality, and what do you believe concerning climate change? I understand that Americans tend to be skeptical about climate change, but I want to see if there is a difference between American Christians and Christians elsewhere. I also thought I'd single out Australians too, since they go with America on some things and with Europe on other things.

I'm not interested in political views but rather what you believe the science indicates. For example, you can answer "climate change is real and substantially caused by man" and still believe Kyoto is a bad idea.


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## JBaldwin (Oct 15, 2007)

Couldn't help but comment on this. Here is a topic over which I struggle. A friend of a close friend, a scientist, is working in northern Alaska (or somewhere near there) observing the shrinking polar cap. At the moment, it really is shrinking and at an alarming rate. 

What do I think of it? It's happening, but I am skeptical as to whether this is a usual adjustment in the earth's cycle or if it is a permenant climate change. I remain firm in my belief that God is in control of His earth. We certainly can do a lot to mess it up, but it won't go anywhere until He says so.


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## Wannabee (Oct 15, 2007)

We have ice ages and warm periods. It's part of the balance of creation. It's a documented fact that northern Canada is thawing out. Plans are being made to start shipping through a northern passage as soon as it is clear enough, which seems very close. This would save big bucks on shipping costs between China and North America.
In southern California the number of days above 100 degrees increases each year. Snow packs are decreasing and glaciers are shrinking. Water is becoming more difficult to come by in desert areas due to both increased population and diminishing precipitation and snow pack. 
It's all part of the plan. It would be interesting to see what the "scientists" blame the next ice age on...


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## reformedcop (Oct 15, 2007)

I think its pretty difficult to deny that the climate is changing, but I think it has been shown pretty convincingly that we have much less to do with the climate change than we think we do.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 16, 2007)

reformedcop said:


> I think its pretty difficult to deny that the climate is changing, but I think it has been shown pretty convincingly that we have much less to do with the climate change than we think we do.




I would suggest that if climate change exists then it is God's judgment on the rebellious nations that ignore Him and reject His law (Deut. 28). However, climate change is being used by guilt-manipulators and Statists to restrict our freedom. I once even heard about Sheryl Crowe wanting to restrict us to using one square of toilet paper per visit.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Oct 16, 2007)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> I once even heard about Sheryl Crowe wanting to restrict us to using one square of toilet paper per visit.



I don't think anyone would be happy about living in the "climate" that would be created by that practice.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 16, 2007)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> Daniel Ritchie said:
> 
> 
> > I once even heard about Sheryl Crowe wanting to restrict us to using one square of toilet paper per visit.
> ...



Somehow I doubt it.


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## Calvibaptist (Oct 16, 2007)

I have a hard time believing that humans are significantly affecting the melting of the polar ice caps when we see the exact same phenomena on Mars going on right now. Last time I checked, we hadn't put any humans up there yet. Although, we did take those two SUV's up there. Never mind, I take that back, maybe it is all our fault.


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## JohnV (Oct 16, 2007)

I tend to think inversely on this, that climate change is producing a reaction upon our actions, and that this in turn again effects climate change. That is, it is not pollution that started it, but that it does multiply the effects. 

Initially, I am supposing, the pollution that would be the cause of changes that effect our growing seasons and our replenishing seasons is not the stuff that fills the air, but the stuff that fills the hearts of men. It is the pollution of the heart that has risen alarmingly. And this in turn effects the level of true concern man has for the care of the earth. 

I get this idea from God's promise in the Bible that He will bless the land if man remains true to His Word, but that He will curse the land if man departs from it. My observation is that, if churches are in decline, both in numbers of worshipers and in doctrinal integrity, then it follows that the society in which these churches live are declining morally. There are less people going to church, and there is a greater acceptance in society of immoral practices. For example, TV isn't for families anymore; it has to be carefully guarded 24-7 by parents, and even commercials have to be rated and prescreened by parents; the expected audience for any TV showing is no longer the family group, though TV's are still almost solely in homes. This shows the moral decline of the ordinary person as seen in the eyes of those marketeers who watch trends in society.

The pollution begins there, and works out into things men do and how they do it. This also is the focus of God's blessings and cursings upon us through how He either blesses or curses the earth on which we live. 

There's nothing wrong with programs such as the Kyoto Agreement or Protocol. They might be noble gestures. But if such programs are meant to allow men to continue in their wanton ways, living as if there is no God to judge their immoralities, filling the streets with the blood of the children who get in the way of their sexual pleasures, or using the born children to gratify these pleasures and making a lively trade out of it at the same time, then it is a complete waste of time.


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## AV1611 (Oct 16, 2007)

So for Scott the world consists of America, Australia and other....just wait till I get my hands on that rogue!! 

*BTW:* I voted "Climate change is a myth."


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## 2 Tim 4:2 (Oct 16, 2007)

Environmental issues, population control, abortion, and animal rights are all part of a bigger picture which is the spread of socialism. These are the issues by which they gain sympathy to restrict freedom and make us all wards of a World governemnt.


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## Civbert (Oct 16, 2007)

"None of the above." American. I believe climate change occurs, but I don't know how much influence man has on it. The science seems rather inconclusive.


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## lwadkins (Oct 16, 2007)

American here

It is becoming more apparent that climate change on the earth is a cyclic phenomenon caused by among other things cyclic changes in the radiant output of the sun. 

Also we will have to work a lot harder on our greenhouse gas output (maybe really big SUV's) to rival the earth's output of greenhouse gases (which dwarf's man's). Volcanoes are among the most grievous offenders. Someone needs to check their carbon credits! I think they've exceeded their allotment! 

There are certain segments of society who have learned how to take advantage of, and make money from, the panic they can induce in masses worldwide. Look at the commercials you see on your Television. How many are aimed at scaring you into a behavior from which someone will benefit.


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## JohnV (Oct 16, 2007)

lwadkins said:


> American here
> 
> It is becoming more apparent that climate change on the earth is a cyclic phenomenon caused by among other things cyclic changes in the radiant output of the sun.
> 
> ...



Seems to me that I recall something called Y2K, too.


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## Wannabee (Oct 16, 2007)

Interestingly, the real culprits in global emissions are cows and sheep. Check this out.

Sounds like a good excuse for an emissions tax on livestock.


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## SRoper (Oct 17, 2007)

AV1611 said:


> So for Scott the world consists of America, Australia and other....just wait till I get my hands on that rogue!!
> 
> *BTW:* I voted "Climate change is a myth."



Now, now, put down the cricket bat. I thought you Otherites were supposed to be a peaceful people.


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## SRoper (Oct 17, 2007)

Wannabee said:


> Interestingly, the real culprits in global emissions are cows and sheep. Check this out.
> 
> Sounds like a good excuse for an emissions tax on livestock.



Which would really be a human factor as the only reason there are so many cows and sheep is human demand for animal products.


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## turmeric (Oct 17, 2007)

The Sheryl Crow thing was a joke - really! We had a thread about it a while back, I don't remember what it was titled.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Oct 18, 2007)

Wannabee said:


> Interestingly, the real culprits in global emissions are cows and sheep. Check this out.
> 
> Sounds like a good excuse for an emissions tax on livestock.



It is a wonder that the British government have not started taxing this already. They tax just about everything else that moves (or remains stationery).


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## tellville (Oct 23, 2007)

SRoper said:


> I also thought I'd single out Australians too, since they go with America on some things and with Europe on other things.



Interesting you would think of Australia first as opposed to your next door neighbour Canada, which meets the exact same qualifications you just listed for choosing Australia! 

Anyway, I think climate change is happening. I think that is pretty obvious. Is it humanity that is _primarily_ causing it? I am not sure. Are we affecting it somewhat? Of course we are because all living creatures affect the earth in some way or the other and humanity does some pretty drastic things to the environment. But again, is humanity what is _primarily_ causing climate change? Right now I am still unsure.

I chose "Other. Climate change is real and is substantially influenced by man." because I think this is a possibility (though the other two options might be correct as well) and this option seems to be under represented so just to spite Scott's snubbing of Canada, I chose it!


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## JohnOwen007 (Oct 24, 2007)

Unfortunately there isn't a category in the voting menu which I adhere to: I think it's very difficult for us non-specialists to come to a clear conclusion on what's causing climate change. It seems difficult enough for the specialists to determine, precisely because we don't have enough data to tell us about previous times of global warming.

I'm all for the environment, precisely because I am a Christian who believes in a creator God. I want to do all I can to help the environment. However, it's so very difficult given the bias of the media to know exactly what to believe.


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## MrMerlin777 (Oct 24, 2007)

I tend toward the belief that climate change is a cyclic phenomenon.

There have been periods of history where things were cooler and periods when things were warmer. I can remember in the mid seventies when people were harping about the coming of the "new ice age".


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