# The necessities



## Herald (Mar 13, 2006)

To the best understanding that my finite mind will allow, I understand the basics of soteriology. I minister at a Baptist church that was founded with a distinctively Arminian flavor. That was back in 2000. Today the leadership of the church embraces the doctrines of sovereign grace. I can't believe I am saying this, but our church is close to shedding it ties to dispensationalism. My dispensationalist beliefs fell nearly four years ago. This post is not a polemic on the reasons for my church changing, although that may be reason enough for a separate thread. No, this post has more to do with the realities of a former Arminian/dispensationalist church that is moving closer to a "Spurgeonesque" Baptistic theology. One of these "realities" that causes me the greatest concern is Arminian conversion. Allow me to elaborate.

Change occurs slowly in most instances. That is true concerning our membership. Many are still Arminian in their theology. Most have no idea what their theology is! In a real sense their lack of theological knowledge makes our task (church leadership) easier. There is not as much "unlearning" that needs to be done. But many of the "buzz words" of the mainstream Arminian and Dispensational movements still have root in some of our members. The result? We cannot teach (yet) at the level we like because not everyone is on the same page. That is changing, but slowly. What concerns me most is what to make of those members who will not change. I am left to conclude a few different options:

1. They are Christians but cemented in what they have already learned and they will not change.

2. We need to be more patient with them and allow God to change their heart.

3. They are not saved.

To be fair, option # 3 is a possibility in all true Christian churches. We cannot see the heart. We may have a good indication of who is part of the family of God, but we are not infallible. I also do not believe a person must have their theology buttoned down in order to become a Christian. I am left with options one and two to consider. With option # 1, I am not sure what we can do. As stated earlier, our church was started as Arminian and dispensationalist. Can we demand that these folks change their theology? I believe not. I also do not support formal church discipline. Church leadership are the ones who have changed, not the membership. We will not allow anyone to teach who does not pass the scrutiny of the eldership. This means that those who hold to a contrary view of scripture (in our view) will not be allowed to influence others formally. We are also finding out that most of those who fall into option # 1 are becoming fewer and fewer through attrition. While I hate to see them leave, it is probably better for both of us if they do. 

Those who are in option # 2 are present in our church also. These are the ones who are skeptical but willing to listen and study. I am currently teaching an expository series on the book of Ephesians. I can see the heads nod in agreement . Much of the discussion that has resulted from this series has challenged established theological norms for many. The eldership is rejoicing over the working of the Holy Spirit in the lives of these precious saints.

Lastly is the use of personal contact. Not all teaching is formal. Pulpit tactics only work to a certain degree. With a more relational approach, we are taking opportunity to impact the men of our church one-on-one.

I am leaving a lot out for the sake of brevity. I am interested in hearing from anyone who has gone through a radical change of theology like we have.


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## blhowes (Mar 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> To the best understanding that my finite mind will allow, I understand the basics of soteriology. I minister at a Baptist church that was founded with a distinctively Arminian flavor. That was back in 2000. Today the leadership of the church embraces the doctrines of sovereign grace. I can't believe I am saying this, but our church is close to shedding it ties to dispensationalism. My dispensationalist beliefs fell nearly four years ago. This post is not a polemic on the reasons for my church changing, although that may be reason enough for a separate thread.


Its exciting to hear of your church's growth. In this thread, or in another, I'd really be interested (if your fellow elders wouldn't mind) in hearing more details about the reasons the church leadership moved away from dispensationalism.

Bob

[Edited on 3-13-2006 by blhowes]


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## Herald (Mar 13, 2006)

Bob,

About seven years ago I made the fateful "mistake" of studying the book of Romans. That began my journey to the doctrines of sovereign grace. I was still a dispensationalist but my theological world was now "fluid."

My home church decided to plant a new church a few miles north in another county in 2000. This church plant was less than one mile from my house. My wife and I decided to attent this new work. By that time I was already a Calvinist, but still a dispensationalist. My pastor was struggling with Calvinism. Within a few years of our inception he became a Calvinist. There was a breech within the elder board (of which I am one). We lost one elder over the issue and another elder resigned over a different doctrinal rift. Today the elders (which includes the pastor) all believe in the doctrines of sovereign grace. In truth, the change had to take place within the leadership. It would not have worked any other way. 

Much like my personal experience, our church is still fluid in its theological identity. In a few years I suppose you will be hard pressed to find a shadow of our former dispensational roots. That said, we are still solidly Baptist. I believe there is room within the Baptist denomination for a Spurgeon-like revival. Not only is there room...it is necessary! I like the idea of different denominations. Not for the disunity some believe is created, but because it helps keep us "honest." Baptists have the stereotype of being free-for-all's who answer to no one. Presbyterians have the stereotype of being rigid and exclusive. Both stereotypes have just enough truth to cause some concern. That is why I believe different denominations have value. I must admitt that Reformed Presbyterians have help me mold my Baptist beliefs for the better. Differences still remain, but I now see them as less than crisis level.


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## blhowes (Mar 13, 2006)

That's a real blessing to hear of a church changing like that. Perhaps there is hope for other churches.


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## Herald (Mar 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by blhowes_
> That's a real blessing to hear of a church changing like that. Perhaps there is hope for other churches.



There is. But keep in mind that our church was a missionary project from a much larger Baptist church 8 miles south of us. Our "sending" church has been around since 1961. It is one of the largest Baptist churches in the area. The pastor and the deacon board have a heart for Christ. Of that, I have no doubt. But they are Arminian and it would take an act of God (something our Lord does quite well by the way!) for them to change. Being a newer church we don't have any baggage. We are free to make our own mistakes (and we've made quite a few). If we had 40+ years of history behind us the outcome may have been quite different.

[Edited on 3-14-2006 by BaptistInCrisis]


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## faydawg67117 (Mar 14, 2006)

This is truely awesome; I pray the same happens to the churches I used to attend. They are CC so I would like to see them become church plants of another denomination with more structure, accountablity, and most importantly sound doctrine. Thank you for sharing; your story is a blessing indeed!

Brian

[Edited on 3-15-2006 by faydawg67117]


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