# Who has a koran ??



## Mayflower (Jun 4, 2009)

These last weeks i have alot contact with muslims, and iam also reading much books on the Islam by Christian writters, which are very helpfull.

Has anyone ever read the Koran, so that you might get a better understanding of the Islam religion ?

Do you think it is a problem to have a koran in your libery for reseach on the islam religion, or would you not allowed to have this book in your house because it's a false religion ?

Any thoughts ?


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## Pergamum (Jun 4, 2009)

I have read it 7 times, as well as some of the works of Al-Ghazali.

Read it chronologically (the Koran is not chronological...google this and you can find lists of the verses by chronological order) and you can see the progression of Mhd's thought from a minority religion focused on re-ordering one's behaviors to a majority religion bent on domination.


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## Seb (Jun 4, 2009)

I don't have one, but if it became a topic of study I don't see any problem with it. 

For years I had a Book of Mormon and a New World Translation (Jehovah's Witness Bible) for the same reasons you mentioned. I only got rid of them because I ran out of room and something had to go, so I dumped them along with a few other less worthy books.


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## Theognome (Jun 4, 2009)

We've got one- It's in the fiction section of our library.

Theognome


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## LawrenceU (Jun 4, 2009)

I have one and some of the hadith from the Suni and Shia.


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## Idelette (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a Quran, and I've read only parts of it. I try not to read very much of it and not very often......but only enough to get a better understanding. I did mission work before in a highly Muslim community....so it was useful for me to learn a bit of the Quran. But, honestly, you don't have to read it to be able to defend the faith.

I have a friend who was raised Muslim and became a reformed Christian, and he highly recommends this book, if you are interested:

[ame=http://www.amazon.com/Truth-About-Islam-QurAns-Teachings/dp/0875526217/ref=pd_sim_b_2]Amazon.com: The Truth About Islam: The Noble Qur'An's Teachings in Light of the Holy Bible: Anees Zaka, Diane Coleman: Books[/ame]


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## Poimen (Jun 4, 2009)

I possess a very nice copy of the Qur'an. I have read small portions of it for research and apologetic purposes. The copy I have is in the apologetics section along with my Catholic Catechism, New World Translation Bible, Mormon Bible and a copy of "Generous Orthodoxy" by McLaren (!). It is for information purposes only. 

Paul speaks of "casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ." 2 Corinthians 10:5 

Personally I think it would be difficult to cast down an argument if you don't know what your opponent is saying. And if keeping a copy of the Qur'an in my library is wrong then I probably shouldn't have any Nietzche, Plato or Aristotle either.

One example of how this might work: I quoted from the Qur'an in a sermon on the Trinity to prove that Muslims explicitly deny the Trinity to expose the lie that Christianity and Islam are compatible.


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## VictorBravo (Jun 4, 2009)

Of course it's OK to have one. I have an Arabic/English one to help me remember what little Arabic I once learned. It is important to have a source to go to when confronting error.

It's right on the "Those Other Books for Research" shelf, next to the Schofield annotated Bible and Russell's "Why I am Not a Christian."


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## Guido's Brother (Jun 4, 2009)

Yes, I have a couple of copies as well.... I've presented some lectures on Islam and that's pretty hard to do without actually reading and interacting with the Qur'an.


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## LadyFlynt (Jun 4, 2009)

Theognome said:


> We've got one- It's in the fiction section of our library.
> 
> Theognome



Better yet, create a "heresy shelf" (you can call it a "various religions shelf" when you feel the need to be PC)


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## Mayflower (Jun 4, 2009)

Thanks alot for your comments!

I just orderd free of charge books from some muslims organisations whom are sending these books for free:

http://www.muslim.org/books/free/form.php
Islamic Message
Welcome to World Islamic Network
Free Islamic Books mailed...


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## py3ak (Jun 4, 2009)

I used to have one. I would like to get another one soon. Although I never got around to peering into it much, I am positive it has more literary value than the book of Mormon (on the unassailable grounds that nothing could have less).


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## JM (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a bunch of them. You can get them free all over the net...google free qu'ran.


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## Montanablue (Jun 4, 2009)

I think its wonderful to be able to be familiar with the Koran. I have read parts of it, and its an absolutely fascinating book. Its really helped me understand some of what is going on in the world. I think its clear that Paul was very knowledgable about Greek and Roman thought and that he was able to use his knowledge and understanding to effectively preach Christ to the pagans.

Also, R.C. Sproul has co-written a really excellent book on Islam. It helped me to understand the religion and its followers much better. [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Dark-Side-Islam-R-Sproul/dp/1581344414/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1244153573&sr=8-4]Amazon.com: The Dark Side of Islam: R. C. Sproul, Abdul Saleeb: Books[/ame]


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Jun 4, 2009)

Yes, I have one. Recently used it in a paper I was writing.


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## rbcbob (Jun 4, 2009)

Mayflower said:


> These last weeks i have alot contact with muslims, and iam also reading much books on the Islam by Christian writters, which are very helpfull.
> 
> Has anyone ever read the Koran, so that you might get a better understanding of the Islam religion ?
> 
> ...



I read it through in preparation for teaching our church about Islam. The Quran is an accumulation of one man's mind and, unlike the Word of God is almost entirely detached from historical context and the outworking of the Creator's plan for mankind through the ages. It is tedious reading but necessary if one plans to expose its dark roots.


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## Reformed Thomist (Jun 4, 2009)

I own a couple of second-hand editions... an old Penguin Classics paperback (N.J. Dawood translation, 1956) and an old Everyman's Library hardcover (Rev. J.M. Rodwell translation, 1861). The first I bought during a particularly dark period spiritually when I was still in the Roman Catholic Church; the second, as a reference text for an Islamic Philosophy course I took last semester. 

Overall, I have found the Qur'an to be a very powerful piece of literature, containing quite a lot of truth. It is persuasive, _effective_. I can understand how one could be led to sincerely feel that it is a divinely inspired book. There aren't many like it.


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## matt01 (Jun 4, 2009)

Mayflower said:


> Has anyone ever read the Koran, so that you might get a better understanding of the Islam religion ?



I have one; I got it during my _searching days_, from a Muslim apologist type. I have read through the whole thing, and found it somewhat profitable for understanding what I actually believe about certain subjects.

I used this listing in order to read through the Qur'an in a chronological manner. This was much easier than reading straight through from front to back, and also interesting in that you are able to see the way in which certain ideas changed over time.

96 68 73 74 1 111 81 87 92 89 93 94 103 100 
108 102 107 109 105 113 114 112 53 80 97 91 85 95 
106 101 75 104 77 50 90 86 54 38 7 72 36 25 
35 19 20 56 26 27 28 17 10 11 12 15 6 37 
31 34 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 51 88 18 16 
71 14 21 23 32 52 67 69 70 78 79 82 84 30 
29 83 2 68 3 33 60 4 99 57 47 13 55 76 
65 98 59 24 22 63 58 49 66 64 61 62 48 5 
8-9 110

Dr. White has an entry explaining the way in which the text was structured.


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## Ivan (Jun 4, 2009)

I have one at my public library.


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## Confessor (Jun 4, 2009)

JM said:


> I have a bunch of them. You can get them free all over the net...google free qu'ran.



That's awesome.


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## LawrenceU (Jun 4, 2009)

The good thing about the free Korans is that the do not come with two attached missionaries.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Jun 4, 2009)

I have two but I find them mostly only useful for referencing although I have read them before.

What we read from the text when we just pick it up and start reading can be very different from what the Muslims see. It is better then to read a commentary or hear a sermon about the given passage or idea, otherwise you go to them and say "The Quran says this" and they say "No." Better to say "The Quran says this and _xyz_ interpreted it this way" etc...

Its a bit like all the trash people manage to drag out of the Bible when people set about reading it just to defunct Christianity.


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## LawrenceU (Jun 4, 2009)

Abd_Yesua_alMasih said:


> I have two but I find them mostly only useful for referencing although I have read them before.
> 
> What we read from the text when we just pick it up and start reading can be very different from what the Muslims see. It is better then to read a commentary or hear a sermon about the given passage or idea, otherwise you go to them and say "The Quran says this" and they say "No." Better to say "The Quran says this and _xyz_ interpreted it this way" etc...
> 
> Its a bit like all the trash people manage to drag out of the Bible when people set about reading it just to defunct Christianity.



That is one reason you really need to read the hadith. There's a bunch of it/them though.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Jun 4, 2009)

Theognome said:


> We've got one- It's in the fiction section of our library.
> 
> Theognome



Fiction section. Good idea.

I have mine next to Ken Taylor's Living Bible, and the Apocrypha.


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## kalawine (Jun 4, 2009)

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> Fiction section. Good idea.
> 
> I have mine next to Ken Taylor's Living Bible, and the Apocrypha.


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## Justin Williams (Jun 4, 2009)

LawrenceU said:


> Abd_Yesua_alMasih said:
> 
> 
> > I have two but I find them mostly only useful for referencing although I have read them before.
> ...



I have one and have read it in its entirety once.

Lawrence, do you know where I could purchase a copy of the hadith?


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## dannyhyde (Jun 5, 2009)

I received a very nice copy with parallel Arabic/English while I was in college. I have read it and I have written about it's Christology here:
Amazon.com: God with Us: Knowing the Mystery of Who Jesus Is: Daniel R. Hyde: Books


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## DMcFadden (Jun 5, 2009)

Be careful. Our supreme leader kept calling it the "Holy" Koran today in his speech.

How important is it to know/cite the original? I have heard so many things about the way Muslims often look down on all translational efforts.


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## Pergamum (Jun 5, 2009)

Justin Williams said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> > Abd_Yesua_alMasih said:
> ...



There are too many to gather all in one book:


http://http://www.uga.edu/islam/hadith.html

http://http://www.islamonline.net/iol-english/info/hadith.asp


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## A.J. (Jun 5, 2009)

Our family has a copy of Koran (in English/Arabic). It was brought by my dad from Saudi Arabia where he worked for several years.

-----Added 6/5/2009 at 02:23:49 EST-----



> Do you think it is a problem to have a koran in your libery for reseach on the islam religion, or would you not allowed to have this book in your house because it's a false religion ?



I don't see anything wrong with having a Koran in your home as long as you use it for research purposes only. I have books and tracts defending beliefs and practices of false religions or sects (e.g., extreme Pentecostalism, Roman Catholicism, etc.). 

We Christians also need to know what members of such groups believe. Experience shows that they respect Christians who do not misrepresent their false religions' beliefs and practices. Knowing what they believe is extremely helpful in presenting a case for Christianity (cf. 1 Peter 3:15).


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## Reformed Thomist (Jun 5, 2009)

DMcFadden said:


> How important is it to know/cite the original? I have heard so many things about the way Muslims often look down on all translational efforts.



From the Muslim perspective, very important. A few Muslims have told me that I have not read the Qur'an until I have read the Qur'an in Arabic. Most Muslims seem to be of the view that it cannot be 'translated' (as any other book can be), the Arabic language and its stunning use here being such an important component of the _experience_ of reading the Qur'an. 

In a way, though, that's just a 'realist' view of translation, which any Classics professor might have regarding the Greek and Latin classics -- the best English translations of Homer and Seneca that the Greekless and Latinless student has are really just creative interpretations of the texts. You haven't _really_ experienced Homer unless, etc...


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## LawrenceU (Jun 5, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> Justin Williams said:
> 
> 
> > LawrenceU said:
> ...




Thanks for the help Pergy. I couldn't open those links, however.
Here is a pretty extensive website that I use:The Hadith Database


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## Justin Williams (Jun 5, 2009)

Thanks Lawrence and Pergamum


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## E Nomine (Jun 5, 2009)

I have two "interpretations" of the Koran. As Reformed Thomist pointed out, above, Muslims only consider the Arabic version the Koran (e.g. only Arabic verses are memorized, even by Muslims who do not understand Arabic). I remember wondering last year, when a Muslim organization did a mass distribution of Korans on Houston doorsteps, how they rationalized disrespecting the book they are not allowed to place on the ground; that's when I learned their reverence only extends to the Arabic text.

If you want to understand what the majority of Muslims believe, i.e. Sunnis which compromise ~93% of Muslims, you need to track down the interpretation used by English Practitioners. I did, and it wasn't simple; in fact, it almost seemed like there was a conspiracy on the part of Western media to keep this version from inadvertently falling into the hands of idle curiosity seekers for whom it could compromise their understanding of "the religion of peace."

It turns out _ Interpretation of the Meanings of The Noble Qur'an in the English Language. _Translated by Dr. Muhammad Taqui-ud-Din Al-Hilali and Dr. Muhammad Muhsin Khan is the most widely distributed English version. This is the version Sunni mosques promote for English-speaking Muslims and the version English-speaking pilgrims receive when they make the Hajj to Mecca. It's also the version I could not find in any mainstream bookstore. They all stock the Penguin Classic, and/or other similar versions which I found are very different in that they dilute the raw anti-Christian and anti-Jewish sentiment. I finally went to a Muslim bookstore, where they were well-stocked with three different editions of the Hilali-Khan interpretation.

Muslim apologists often say the Hilali-Kahn interpretation is "radical" and not indicative of what mainstream Muslims believe. It remains, nevertheless, the most common version of English believers and its distribution is subsidized by the Saudi government. It contains many detailed footnotes, similar to a study Bible.

I haven't read through the entire Koran, but I've read significant passages, both in the direct Hilali-Kahn and in the comparatively boring and innocuous Penguin Classic version. The Hilali-Khan starts right off in the first Sura stating that the Jew has earned Allah's anger. It also contains appendices attacking Jesus' divinity and calling Muslims to Jihad


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## LawrenceU (Jun 5, 2009)

Here is a website which has a downloadable pdf format of the version which you reference, _Interpretation of the Meanings of The Noble Qur'an in the English Language

_Translation of the Meanings of The Noble Quran in the English Language - English

It may take a while to download, but it is worth it.


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## PresbyDane (Jun 5, 2009)

I have got one but do not keep it with the rest of my books


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## Grymir (Jun 6, 2009)

I have a nice one that was given to me by some Muslims that I was dialoging with. They gave it to me so I could have some knowledge of the Koran. It's good to have one in this day and age.


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## Peairtach (Jun 6, 2009)

I have read the Koran in the translation by N.J. Dawood. It has pictures of some nice-looking mosques. It's good to think that they will be (Reformed) churches some day.


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## Confessor (Jun 7, 2009)

Richard Tallach said:


> It has pictures of some nice-looking mosques. It's good to think that they will be (Reformed) churches some day.


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## Ivan (Jun 7, 2009)

Confessor said:


> Richard Tallach said:
> 
> 
> > It has pictures of some nice-looking mosques. It's good to think that they will be (Reformed) churches some day.



Yeah, I liked statement too.


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 7, 2009)

I've got a very nice edition.


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## IanAdams (Jun 19, 2009)

py3ak said:


> I used to have one. I would like to get another one soon. Although I never got around to peering into it much, I am positive it has more literary value than the book of Mormon (on the unassailable grounds that nothing could have less).



Umm, Scientology. L. Ron Hubbard was way crazier than Joseph Smith.

Back on topic... I have a rather extensive collection of books on Islam, by Muslims, from a wide variety of lslamic legal schools including several different English translations/interpretations of the Quran. If we are going to refute someone, we need to understand what they are saying. They are right next to my copies of Dan Brown's books.


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## Tim (Jun 19, 2009)

For those who don't know, the Quran is much shorter than the Bible. Also, the first chapter is the longest; the last is the shortest.


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## caddy (Jun 19, 2009)

Montanablue said:


> I think its wonderful to be able to be familiar with the Koran. I have read parts of it, and its an absolutely fascinating book. Its really helped me understand some of what is going on in the world. I think its clear that Paul was very knowledgable about Greek and Roman thought and that he was able to use his knowledge and understanding to effectively preach Christ to the pagans.
> 
> Also, R.C. Sproul has co-written a really excellent book on Islam. It helped me to understand the religion and its followers much better. Amazon.com: The Dark Side of Islam: R. C. Sproul, Abdul Saleeb: Books



Read this. It's very Good!


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## JennyG (Jul 13, 2009)

*I'm not so sure*

I used to have a copy which I picked up in a charity shop but never got round to reading. The sight of it sitting there as if innocently among all the other books began to trouble me after a while. i've always heard that moslems regard the book, even the physical thing itself, as sacred. Paul says we know that an idol is nothing, but still he tells us to abstain from meat offered to idols when it's brought to our attention, if only for the sake of others' consciences. And there is enough in Scripture, the OT especially, about rooting out the trappings of paganism.
i felt happier once I had got rid of it. After all I thought, why would I want to fill my mind with its teachings? i have enough trouble keeping the incursions of the world out of there, without inviting in of my own accord what must be straight from the Enemy.


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## Rich Koster (Jul 13, 2009)

I have heretical writings in my library. They are a know your enemy thing. However, knowing I will die some day and these books will go to someone else, I have marked them up inside the front cover with a big red marker with a warning.


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## JennyG (Jul 13, 2009)

Rich,
I can see that if you're called to apologetics it might be different. And I suppose we're all so called to a certain extent -- I dabble in evolutionist writings myself, with a view to being able to meet smart, unconverted young people in debate. Still have my doubts about the koran, for reasons mentioned! 
(The red warning marker sounds like a good idea though)


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## awretchsavedbygrace (Jul 13, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> I have heretical writings in my library. They are a know your enemy thing. However, knowing I will die some day and these books will go to someone else, I have marked them up inside the front cover with a big red marker with a warning.



Very good idea the red marker.


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