# Help with songs



## Notthemama1984 (Jun 21, 2011)

I need to pick three songs for worship this Lord's Day from the Trinity Hymnal. I need to pick three that are "well known." My only problem is that I grew up on the Baptist Hymnal. 

Which songs would you consider well known?

---------- Post added at 10:44 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:43 PM ----------

Red Trinity Hymnal if that matters.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 21, 2011)

The first questions that you should answer for us are these: What are your OT and NT readings and the sermon text? What is your sermon about? 

The songs should always compliment what is being taught in the sermon- worship should flow in such a way that everything compliments the thesis/point of the sermon. People should walk away saying, "I know what God has said today."


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## VictorBravo (Jun 21, 2011)

Here you go. Three hymns that everyone should know:

30 God our Help in Ages Past
38 Immortal, Invisible, God only Wise.
100 Holy, Holy, Holy

Edited to Add: Of course, I completely concur with Pastor Eshelman's advice. I pick our hymns every week, and I usually spend around an hour or two making the decision.


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## Edward (Jun 22, 2011)

Do you have access to one, or do you need name and number? 

I agree with Pastor Eshelman - knowing your readings would help. 

There is probably a fair amount of overlap between the Baptist and Trinity books.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 22, 2011)

Ok maybe I should rephrase. I need to expand my Trinity Hymnal repertoire. I need to choose songs for this Lord's Day, but also for the near future. So what songs would you consider a part of the standard repertoire of the church?

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Edward said:


> Do you have access to one, or do you need name and number?
> 
> I agree with Pastor Eshelman - knowing your readings would help.
> 
> There is probably a fair amount of overlap between the Baptist and Trinity books.



A copy was given to me today.


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## N. Eshelman (Jun 22, 2011)

Here's a list of familiar hymn tunes (along with psalm selections from the RPCNA psalter). This is a very helpful list of common and popular hymn tunes/titles. 

I imagine this would be very helpful to you: 
https://www.crownandcovenant.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/bopfwfamiliartunesindex.pdf


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt (Jun 22, 2011)

One suggestion you can do is if you can't come up with three hymns to fit into the sermon, defaulting to either "Gloria Patri" or the "Doxology" at the end of the service would probably work well. Unless your entire congregation went to mega churches their entire lives, most of them will probably recognize one or both of them.


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## Edward (Jun 22, 2011)

Be careful with the Trinity Hymnal - they'll sometimes have multiple versions of the same song, with traditional and modern tunes and arrangements. If they are looking for traditional, they probably would prefer to NOT to have Rock of Ages to 'New City Fellowship'; stick to Toplady (499, not 500). Use the Scripture Reference index and the topic index in the back to try to tie to readings and messages. (Pages 900 - 935), And scan the titles and first lines - you'll probably spot a number that will ring familiar.


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## fredtgreco (Jun 22, 2011)

I'm going to be the contrarian here. I think far too much time and effort is put into "matching" the hymns to the sermon. Do we "match" the prayers? Do we match the readings all the time? Biblical truth is so fundamental that there is almost always overlap.


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## Edward (Jun 22, 2011)

fredtgreco said:


> I'm going to be the contrarian here. I think far too much time and effort is put into "matching" the hymns to the sermon. Do we "match" the prayers? Do we match the readings all the time? Biblical truth is so fundamental that there is almost always overlap.



I recall that you've posted along these lines before. If you don't link the hymns to the sermon and readings, how do you select the songs? And do you match the scripture reading(s) to the sermon?


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 22, 2011)

nleshelman said:


> Here's a list of familiar hymn tunes (along with psalm selections from the RPCNA psalter). This is a very helpful list of common and popular hymn tunes/titles.
> 
> I imagine this would be very helpful to you:
> https://www.crownandcovenant.com/v/vspfiles/assets/images/bopfwfamiliartunesindex.pdf



Nathan, thank you very much for the link.

Bryan, the church is an OPC plant and we sing the Gloria Patri and Doxology at every service.

Edward, I am glad 499 is considered the traditional because I have never heard of the 500 tune for Rock of Ages.


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## fredtgreco (Jun 22, 2011)

Edward said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to be the contrarian here. I think far too much time and effort is put into "matching" the hymns to the sermon. Do we "match" the prayers? Do we match the readings all the time? Biblical truth is so fundamental that there is almost always overlap.
> ...



I work with our music director to make sure that we sing a variety of selections - both a variety musically, and thematically. My preference is to have song selection done at least six months in advance (although often it can be three months).

I have several overarching principles:

We sing four selections each Lord's Day morning. I try and have them be a variety of 2 hymns (RTH), one psalm, one contemporary song (which we have vetted and put into a Songbook we created)
The first selection is nearly always what I call a "slam dunk hymn," one that everyone knows well (A Mighty Fortress, Crown Him with Many Crowns, etc.) that also sets the tone for opening worship (generally upbeat and praise of the Lord's attributes)
The second selection occurs either right before or right after our Confession of Sin, so it is generally something thematically related to confessing sin or assurance of pardon. Psalms and many contemporary songs (the best of which are Psalm related) are excellent here.
I try not to have more than one unfamiliar song (whether by words or tune) each Lord's Day.
I keep a spreadsheet of which songs we have sung over the past (now) five years. I have found that when pastors just pick hymns each week, they unconsciously include their "favorites" over and over again, and even if they good selections, it gets wearisome. As an example, a former pastor of mine used to select "Be Thou My Vision" about every other month.

Hymnody (and Psalmody) in my mind serves two purposes: (1) to engage the congregation in the corporate aspect of worship (which should increase engagement in prayer, Scripture hearing, etc.) and (2) to broaden the horizons/perspective with some new selections. This is how I have been introducing the Psalter to our people.

So as you can see, I would rather spend my time thinking and preparing music selections on a broader/higher level than spend an hour of potential sermon prep trying to find the perfect hymn about God's sovereignty for this week's sermon (which likely will reoccur within 5-6 weeks anyway). I feel the same way about sermon titles, but that discussion is for another time.


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## Andres (Jun 22, 2011)

fredtgreco said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > fredtgreco said:
> ...



I like this a lot.


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## Scott1 (Jun 22, 2011)

You hold a treasure trove in the hymnal.

Of the Father's Love Begotten
How Firm a Foundation
All Creatures (of Our God and King)

To name a few.


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## Edward (Jun 22, 2011)

fredtgreco said:


> So as you can see, I would rather spend my time thinking and preparing music selections on a broader/higher level than spend an hour of potential sermon prep trying to find the perfect hymn about God's sovereignty for this week's sermon (which likely will reoccur within 5-6 weeks anyway). I feel the same way about sermon titles, but that discussion is for another time.



Thanks for your explanation. I'm not convinced that your system would be quicker than consulting the verse index in a few hymnals (or, since you have one, having your music director tender a short list for final selection and approval). But your other grounds seem well reasoned.


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