# A question about Education. Private vs HS



## etexas (Jan 9, 2010)

I am aware a number of my friends here with kids that are in Home-School. Since becoming PCA my wife and I noted a lot of folk in our Church HS. I have been a supporter in the past of Parochial Education. I attended both Catholic (say what you like Catholics do give good educations!) and a private Episcopal School. I am simply curious and really have no conclusions as HS is "new" to me. What makes it preferable to a private Christian Academy? (Oh, and yes I know, I put this in General, the Education was "Private" and I could not put it there.... snobs! (Kidding) Really I would like to here pros-cons, draws. One note, I would like tuition and money not be a "primary" focus. I know man who is an ER Doc who heads up the ER department in a large Hospital, he could have sent his kids to any of 5? good local Christian Schools all 3 of his were Home-schooled. So, for arguments sake let's minimize tuition as know with Dr. G. and many others that was not much of a factor.


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## Scottish Lass (Jan 9, 2010)

We plan to homeschool because we'll be able to choose the textbooks, structure Grace's day, adapt to her learning style and pace, use everyday "teachable moments", find like-minded parents for co-ops, etc., relate what she's learning to God''s Word and the world around her, and so on. Money has very little do with our choice.


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## jwithnell (Jan 9, 2010)

We've tried our best to match our child to the education best for him or her. That has meant a combination of home schooling and private Christian schooling with a smattering of help from the public schools with our special needs child. At some point, I have home schooled every grade! 

Home schooling enables you to be intimately involved with everything that is taught to your child. In my experience, a lot of Christian school material is developed by broadly evangelical folks if not out-right dispensationalists. Many a time I've skipped a lesson or changed the text mid-sentence to reflect a more accurate view of the scriptures.

Also, you can match your child's progress -- are fractions slowing her down? Take the extra time to get it right. Is she reading three grades levels ahead? Great, keep on going!

The Christian schools can provide specific support, like testing and participation in groups like chorus or maybe sports. In our case, it was helpful after our oldest went to college to send our second-oldest to the school since she was really unhappy without her sister around and wanted more interaction with people her own age. We have our third-oldest at the school now to give me time to work with the younger two and I'm beginning to think that boys in particular might benefit from the natural competition that develops with other guys around.


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## Mushroom (Jan 9, 2010)

Public schools out of the question, private Christian school financially not an option so never considered (sorry - reality, Dr G notwithstanding), HS logical conclusion.


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## Montanablue (Jan 9, 2010)

Since most people are giving reasons to home school, I'll give some reasons that a family might not. (And I was happily homeschooled so don't think I'm against it)

- Some parents simply aren't teachers - or at least not good ones. Teaching is a gift. Some people don't have it. 

- Career - You really need to have one parent who is willing to stay at home full time to teach. 

- Supporting Christian schools - some families who have sufficient money to put their kids in a Christian private school feel that its good to do this. Supporting a Christian school means that that school can offer scholarships to other children. 

- Insufficient education - some parents may not have an adequate education to teach their children, especially when it comes to the higher grades and teaching things like calculus or physics.

- Lack of resources - a family may live in an area where there are few resources available to homeschoolers - no sports teams, music groups, academic clubs, or co-ops. Its extremely difficult to home school successfully without these things.


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## etexas (Jan 10, 2010)

Brad said:


> Public schools out of the question, private Christian school financially not an option so never considered (sorry - reality, Dr G notwithstanding), HS logical conclusion.


OK Brad. Dr. G gives you a BIG bag of green! Do you still HS????


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## Reformed Thomist (Jan 10, 2010)

People with deep pockets send their offspring to private schools for a reason: the higher quality of education.


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## TimV (Jan 10, 2010)

Public schools are like homeless shelters. You use them if there aren't any other resources. There have been Christians who have been forced due to circumstance into homeless shelters, and they shouldn't be despised, but it should be avoided where at all possible.


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## TaylorOtwell (Jan 10, 2010)

In my opinion, parents are the ones entrusted by God to educate their children. God delegates responsibility to many different people and groups of people. The civil authorities hold the sword, for example. I believe authority to educate children is given to parents, and that they should not give it someone else (in the same way that the civil authority shouldn't pass off its authority to the church).

Another reason to homeschool is discipline. Parents are taught that if they train their children to walk in the Lord's ways, they will not depart from them. But, there is a difference between teaching and training. I need to promptly and consistently be able to discipline my child (with a rod) when he disobeys, and I'm not able to do that if he is at a private school. I also need to be able to teach him personally and individually after he has disobeyed, as well as reaffirm my love for him. I can not do either of these things if he is at a private school.

Also, we're not simply after a high standard of education. I'm not trying to raise little Thomas Jeffersons, I'm trying to raise men and women of godliness. Do I want them to be sharp, and well educated? Absolutely! But, my first priority is their discipleship and godliness.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 10, 2010)

I have an opinion. :shocking:

1. If I did not believe that Homeschooling was my God-given job as a parent as per scripture, we would not do it. It is hard and takes most of my wife's day and energy. She likewise sees it as her God-given job.

2. If there is no discipline from the parents, it will fail. I know of a HS failure (a massive train wreck) where the biggest issue day to day was that there was no discipline in the home - this meant that whether the children had gone to private/public school, it would have been a disaster. This, to me, is the largest challenge for a parent, not whether or not they're 'cut out' to do the job. I know people with a GED that are not teacher-types who give their children extremely fulfilling educational experiences.

3. Public school is not an option to us. In the event that we are destitute and both must work 24/7 in order to put food on the table, I would sooner go hat in hand to the deacons/my father/my brother/other family and beg for funding than put them in a public school around here. It is not the area (and thus the quality of the public school in question), it is the curriculum. I would have to echo Tim's opinion: They are homeless shelters; not to be looked down upon in times of absolute necessity, but an avenue of last resort, when _every_ other avenue has been exhausted.


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## etexas (Jan 10, 2010)

Great feedback so far! OK, what of my situation.......as a "child of the 70's" we (at least in this area of Texas my sector of East texas to DFW....most people really only were aware/or thought of 2 options, Public or Private (while I AM growing to appreciate the merits of HS and Parental mandate!) IF in my "time and place" an option for Christian Private School would under those circumstances (a choice in my case for Roman Catholic and then an Episcopal Education) be a wise option for a Parent? (As far as my Catholic/Episcopal Education, while not being Reformed, WAS in a climate of Christian Ethos, that is to say Bibles were in abundance, if my friends and I "acted up" even in Catholic School, Father O'Hara would begin to rebuke us with: Is THIS Godly Christian behavior Gentlemen? Again not a HS vs Private question, simply a best "call"......


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## TaylorOtwell (Jan 10, 2010)

etexas said:


> Great feedback so far! OK, what of my situation.......as a "child of the 70's" we (at least in this area of Texas my sector of East texas to DFW....most people really only were aware/or thought of 2 options, Public or Private (while I AM growing to appreciate the merits of HS and Parental mandate!) IF in my "time and place" an option for Christian Private School would under those circumstances (a choice in my case for Roman Catholic and then an Episcopal Education) be a wise option for a Parent? (As far as my Catholic/Episcopal Education, while not being Reformed, WAS in a climate of Christian Ethos, that is to say Bibles were in abundance, if my friends and I "acted up" even in Catholic School, Father O'Hara would begin to rebuke us with: Is THIS Godly Christian behavior Gentlemen? Again not a HS vs Private question, simply a best "call"......



In my opinion, "no", and this is because "education" is more than "education" - it is discipleship, and discipleship requires loving, consistent discipline from the child's parent. A teacher is not as effective, loving and consistent of a disciplinarian as a parent, simply because it is not their child. I believe it would be best for the child to have a teacher who knows their "coming out and their going in". In other words, the parent is closest to that child, and can provide loving, tender, affectionate guidance and training in a way that a teacher outside of the home cannot.


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## etexas (Jan 10, 2010)

TaylorOtwell said:


> etexas said:
> 
> 
> > Great feedback so far! OK, what of my situation.......as a "child of the 70's" we (at least in this area of Texas my sector of East texas to DFW....most people really only were aware/or thought of 2 options, Public or Private (while I AM growing to appreciate the merits of HS and Parental mandate!) IF in my "time and place" an option for Christian Private School would under those circumstances (a choice in my case for Roman Catholic and then an Episcopal Education) be a wise option for a Parent? (As far as my Catholic/Episcopal Education, while not being Reformed, WAS in a climate of Christian Ethos, that is to say Bibles were in abundance, if my friends and I "acted up" even in Catholic School, Father O'Hara would begin to rebuke us with: Is THIS Godly Christian behavior Gentlemen? Again not a HS vs Private question, simply a best "call"......
> ...


Have to disagree...to a point my Brother.My father owned 3 Publicly Traded Companies as I was growing up, my mother provided a wonderful nurturing home....and the Christian Schools worked very CLOSELY with my parents. (Please Brother, you need to be fair in this before judging my parents, AGAIN, I am of another generation...HS....I never met an HS until the 90's! It was not around my neck of the woods at least, so I thank it may have been a good call...A Classical Christian Education IN a Christian Ethos vs.....PUBLIC......Taylor..I am not sure you can call that a "mistake (in the 70's!) I GET where you are coming from but like I say, please do keep my "era" and location in mind and the larger "equation". Pax Est Bonum.


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## JBaldwin (Jan 10, 2010)

To answer the question in the OP. The real difference in christian vs. HS In my humble opinion is the approach to teaching. The model of traditional education is "assembly line". Every student gets the same information, every student is tested on that information, and the goal is turn out students who are basically all the same. In most cases, private christian schools take the same approach only they have a christian worldview. 

HS is more a tutoring approach and the goal is not only to give the student information, but tailoring the information to the student's interests and needs. If the parent is doing their job, the student is still getting the basics (three Rs), but it serves as a launch pad for further learning in the area of interest (and at the student's pace) rather than trying to have the same product as everyone else.


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## Wayne (Jan 10, 2010)

I don't think Kevin meant it quite this way, but his post brought this idea to mind, namely

That the public school system is the educational equivalent of a homeless shelter.

Agree or disagree?


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## Christusregnat (Jan 10, 2010)

etex, someone married you!? WOW, there's hope for anyone


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## Christusregnat (Jan 10, 2010)

Actually homeless shelters are sometimes funded privately, not by the strong arm of the state, operating under Marxist mandates, robs from taxpayers to put up shelters. Thus, govt. schools are like markist, thieving homeless shelters.


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## etexas (Jan 10, 2010)

Christusregnat said:


> etex, someone married you!? WOW, there's hope for anyone


 Cute 5 foot four blond 12 years younger than me! I am the man....


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## Reepicheep (Jan 10, 2010)

I think both private and home school can be excellent choices. We choose a private Christian school. It happens to be our church school and I have pretty close involvement with it, so I like it all the more!! 

Both are biblical ways to carry out Deut. 6. Both require heavy involvement and commitment by parents.


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## Mushroom (Jan 10, 2010)

etexas said:


> Brad said:
> 
> 
> > Public schools out of the question, private Christian school financially not an option so never considered (sorry - reality, Dr G notwithstanding), HS logical conclusion.
> ...


Oh, yes. Perhaps make more use of co-op resources that can be expensive. Christian school would only become an option if my beloved bride were so burnt out on HS'ing that she needed a break. They can be some pretty sad places as well, and my wife loves homeschooling.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 10, 2010)

It was Tim, actually, that compared PS to a homeless shelter, but yes, I think that was the basic idea.


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## lynnie (Jan 10, 2010)

It is my opinion, having a 13 year old homeschooling now and four older kids that went to Christian school ( 3 spent one year in public after we moved), that once kids hit 9th grade it is impossible to provide adequate academics from Mom alone, especially if the kids have a scientific bent. Obviously now there are some great internet teaching imputs, but I do not think the home can provide the lab facilties necessary for good biology and physics and chemistry- plus math and foreign languages and art and music and all the rest. When the bible speaks of different giftings and callings, that means that God intended people to be specialized to some extent, and we can't all do everything. If you are strong in one area you'll be weak in another.

Some people put their kid in one or two public school classes. Often there are co-ops and homeschool classes within half an hour driving in suburban areas. Tutors cost big money but they help. Once the kid gets to highschool, I think you have to give serious thought to more than just Mom....maybe even by seventh grade if you have a motivated academic kid who thrives on learning.


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## Lady of the Lake (Jan 10, 2010)

_- Some parents simply aren't teachers - or at least not good ones. Teaching is a gift. Some people don't have it._ An odd perspective.
What does this say about the children God put in families before there were schools or in places where schools are not available? Does He just make sure that only gifted parents are in such circumstances? Isaiah 54:13

_- Career - You really need to have one parent who is willing to stay at home full time to teach._
There are numerous children who have been educated/discipled full-time at home by single parents who needed to work or by parents who were both employed or every family member was involved in a family business. 

_- Supporting Christian schools - some families who have sufficient money to put their kids in a Christian private school feel that its good to do this. Supporting a Christian school means that that school can offer scholarships to other children._ 
You mean, some parents choose to send their children to school in order to benefit someone else's children to attend the same school?

_- Insufficient education - some parents may not have an adequate education to teach their children, especially when it comes to the higher grades and teaching things like calculus or physics._ A sad myth.
God has sovereignly directed the education of countless children of parents without "an adequate education." Some of the most loving and effective ones I know are not college or even high school graduates. The home education world at this point has more than sufficient materials, support and options to cover "higher grades and teaching things like calculus or physics". God's enabling call and confidence in it are the key elements.

_- Lack of resources - a family may live in an area where there are few resources available to homeschoolers - no sports teams, music groups, academic clubs, or co-ops. Its extremely difficult to home school successfully without these things._ Another sad myth.
Myriad parents across decades have educated their own children without any of these resources. Many were missionaries on fields where such things were not only not available but not considered. As a matter of fact, the American parents who homeschooled in the 1980's and 1990's rarely saw any of these items and many shun them today with increasingly positive results.

Psalm 78 is a great source for defining a biblical education - staff, curriculum, goals, etc.


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## Montanablue (Jan 10, 2010)

Sandra - I wasn't intending to start a debate on whether homeschooling or private school was better. Etexas simply asked for reasons why one might choose not to homeschool and I gave them. Like I said, I was happily homeschooled and its something I would certainly consider for my own children (although I wouldn't rule out a good private or public school in certain circumstances). Since it was not my intention to start an argument or debate, but simply to answer the OP, please forgive me for not responding to the things you bring up.


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## Pete (Jan 10, 2010)

As one who attended school at a "homeless shelter", but had friends and family in private Christian Schools and homeschool, I would like to say that it really depends on the student and the parents. While I have no problem with homeschooling, if it is not a conviction on the part of the parent, I think often times it can do more harm than good. As far as private versus public, I have seen young people at Christian schools doing everything but living for the Lord, and I have seen young people at public schools shining a light to their peers and affecting lives that they would not be in contact with in a private school.

While I would never put my daughter in a school where she would not be receiving an adequate education or would be unsafe, I can imagine no better way for her to learn about sharing the love of Christ with people who truly need it, than by her being in the world while my wife and I teach how not be of it.


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## kjat32 (Jan 11, 2010)

It's a good question, and God might be moving you in this direction if you're already asking it. BUT, homeschooling isn't for wimps so make sure you are 100% sure before starting. You'll encounter opposition in the most unexpected places and encouragement from like-minded people all over the world. 
As for pros and cons, well pretty much everything you can count for one side can be counted on the other in some way. I wouldn't look at this as a 10-2 decision made on numbers of pros vs cons but as a response to a call God places in your hearts to raise your children the best way you can. Read up on some pro-homeschooling books to get all the pros you need (cons will be brought up by even the paper boy if you need them) and read up on some of the basics of homeschooling like teaching styles, learning abilities, resources, etc. It will give you a good idea if that's the right direction for your family.
Also, while it's good to get your ideas on this started now, you'll need to review it once your child is near that age since some children have special needs that should be addressed (our oldest is an example, made me quake in my slippers contemplating hs'ing him but we're persevering . God bless as you pursue training your child up.


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## nasa30 (Jan 11, 2010)

Reformed Thomist said:


> People with deep pockets send their offspring to private schools for a reason: the higher quality of education.


 
We homeschool first because of the Parental mandate(cost was not a factor), the superior education is just a bonus. With that, I totally disagree with your statement above that private school gives a better quality of education. See this study for some stats. My oldest is a senior this year, (skipped her Jr year) and she has been HS from day one.


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## TimV (Jan 11, 2010)

> I can imagine no better way for her to learn about sharing the love of Christ with people who truly need it, than by her being in the world while my wife and I teach how not be of it.



You don't send your young daughter to a Roman Catholic church service three times a week to let her witness, nor do you encourage her to have loose, pot smoking, foul mouthed friends at an early age to lead them to Christ. Childhood in the Bible is a training time, not a time of discernment and leadership.


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## etexas (Jan 11, 2010)

*Warning buzzer!*



Montanablue said:


> Sandra - I wasn't intending to start a debate on whether homeschooling or private school was better. Etexas simply asked for reasons why one might choose not to homeschool and I gave them. Like I said, I was happily homeschooled and its something I would certainly consider for my own children (although I wouldn't rule out a good private or public school in certain circumstances). Since it was not my intention to start an argument or debate, but simply to answer the OP, please forgive me for not responding to the things you bring up.


 My THANKS to the balance of Kathleen! I regret having put (vs) in my Title, I NEVER meant a competition! I only meant I was curious why some opted for HS over Christian Private. I am thankful for my Private, I could sight read Latin in 7th grade I was doing Algebra when my friends in Public were doing long division....MOST of you have been VERY kind! Most of the feedback has been quite good! In fairness to me I have been a gentleman , stating HS was something I knew little about. It is possible to give that feedback without "cheap-shots" at good Solid Private Christian Schools or WORSE making implications that Parents who opt Private are "not acting out a God-Given mandate" .... this is JUDGING. it lacks charity. Brethren. My Friends in Christ! I BEG you!!!! I BEGAN this thread in Charity and simply had questions for my HS Friends here...I still do....HOWEVER.....I will not tolerate any further uncivil speech or harshness! If it happens again...I will ask a Mod or Admin to close the Thread! (I have had it done before.) Please Beloved Brethren it was a very simple question. It is a good topic I am thankful for MUCH of the feedback and would like to hear more. So in Christian Charity............thank you.


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## nasa30 (Jan 11, 2010)

Sorry, I thought you wanted to know WHY we HS or chose Christian Private School. For straight facts as to the differences, see the study I posted earlier.

*Academic Statistics on Homeschooling*


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## etexas (Jan 11, 2010)

nasa30 said:


> Sorry, I thought you wanted to know WHY we HS or chose Christian Private School. For straight facts as to the differences, see the study I posted earlier.
> 
> *Academic Statistics on Homeschooling*


Judson, in regard to my warning about having the Thread shu you really were not crossing the line of which I spoke! thank you for the Study!


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## Megan Mozart (Jan 11, 2010)

Etexas, even though this is secondhand information, I have heard from most of the homeschooling parents I know that the statistics show that even if your parents have only an eight grade education, the homeschooled children of those parents do better academically than their public school peers. It appears to be a rule of thumb, then, that their education doesn't matter, though on an individual basis I think it would be foolish to assume that it has absolutely NO affect at all. But perhaps the effect is minimal? Just my two cents.


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## TimV (Jan 11, 2010)

The goal isn't for mom to demonstrate brain surgery in the kitchen, it's to get the kids started with a proper world view, discipline etc.. After a certain age, usually mid to late teens, the kids move on, either to owning their own business (which is really common) or going to a secular college or trade school. So you don't have to worry too much about calculus, electrical engineering, removing eye cancers, etc...


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## Montanablue (Jan 11, 2010)

Megan Mozart said:


> Etexas, even though this is secondhand information, I have heard from most of the homeschooling parents I know that the statistics show that even if your parents have only an eight grade education, the homeschooled children of those parents do better academically than their public school peers. It appears to be a rule of thumb, then, that their education doesn't matter, though on an individual basis I think it would be foolish to assume that it has absolutely NO affect at all. But perhaps the effect is minimal? Just my two cents.


 
It all depends on what you want for your children and how they are geared. My father has a graduate degree and my mother a B.S. I don't think it would have been possible for either of them to teach me calculus or physics without their college educations. (That doesnt' mean they couldn't have homeschooled me, it just means that they would have needed to find other venues in which I could take upper level math and science classes. As it was, I took all of my lit, writing, and foreign language classes at community college or co-op because my parents didn't have those skills). If you give your child an excellent secondary education than you give them the freedom to make choices in their life. Your daughter can be a stay at home mom or she can be a college professor. Your son can be a landscaper or a physicist. Not every parent _can_ give their children the best education because of circumstance. But I think its a great service to t he child when they make every effort to do so.


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## Megan Mozart (Jan 11, 2010)

My husband has a BS in Mathematics so he knows Calculus like the back of his hand, and the math he likes doesn't even use numbers. Cuz he's a freak like that.

Guess who's going to teach our future kids math.


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## Montanablue (Jan 11, 2010)

Megan Mozart said:


> My husband has a BS in Mathematics so he knows Calculus like the back of his hand, and the math he likes doesn't even use numbers. Cuz he's a freak like that.
> 
> Guess who's going to teach our future kids math.



My father is similar (electrical engineer). After we finished trig, my mother just handed the textbooks over to him. . "All yours now, honey."


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## Scottish Lass (Jan 11, 2010)

Montanablue said:


> Megan Mozart said:
> 
> 
> > My husband has a BS in Mathematics so he knows Calculus like the back of his hand, and the math he likes doesn't even use numbers. Cuz he's a freak like that.
> ...


 
Yep, we'll be doing the same with Grace, I imagine...I taught English and he taught math, so you can predict what will happen by Algebra II!


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## kvanlaan (Jan 11, 2010)

I know many people in our church who have gone all the way through and Mom has nothing but a HS diploma or maybe a Liberal Arts BA - their kids are all well rounded and well educated. Thing is, these people homeschool with a zeal that is religious/evangelical in proportion. Without that zeal/sense of mission (coupled with in home discipline), I think you're back to square one again. That is to say that the 'why' of why they do it is a deep religious conviction that God has given this responsibility to them as a parent and they follow it up with an effort steeped in deep religious conviction. That's what got them through 18 years of HS.


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## etexas (Jan 11, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> I know many people in our church who have gone all the way through and Mom has nothing but a HS diploma or maybe a Liberal Arts BA - their kids are all well rounded and well educated. Thing is, these people homeschool with a zeal that is religious/evangelical in proportion. Without that zeal/sense of mission (coupled with in home discipline), I think you're back to square one again. That is to say that the 'why' of why they do it is a deep religious conviction that God has given this responsibility to them as a parent and they follow it up with an effort steeped in deep religious conviction. That's what got them through 18 years of HS.


Nice answer my good Brother. Thank you for giving a why (HS) ... without casting judgment on those of us whose parents used Private Christian. A gentleman a Christian and a good mind AND giving the type of answer I was actually asking. Thanks Kevin. Blessings!


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## etexas (Jan 11, 2010)

Pete said:


> As one who attended school at a "homeless shelter", but had friends and family in private Christian Schools and homeschool, I would like to say that it really depends on the student and the parents. While I have no problem with homeschooling, if it is not a conviction on the part of the parent, I think often times it can do more harm than good. As far as private versus public, I have seen young people at Christian schools doing everything but living for the Lord, and I have seen young people at public schools shining a light to their peers and affecting lives that they would not be in contact with in a private school.
> 
> While I would never put my daughter in a school where she would not be receiving an adequate education or would be unsafe, I can imagine no better way for her to learn about sharing the love of Christ with people who truly need it, than by her being in the world while my wife and I teach how not be of it.


Great answer, it does not invoke an "imaginary mandate", well done. Blessings Pete.


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## calgal (Jan 11, 2010)

Well, I would personally use HS as a stopgap (or a last resort) until we could make arrangements to get the kids into a Christian school or charter school (around here, the charter schools are Christian in all but name). I do think education is a decision each family has to make for its children. And that the church should help families as much as possible to get the kids into a decent Christian school.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 11, 2010)

One really must determine what God has called them to do with the children they have been given to raise. I hate to say this but a lot, and I mean a lot, of Christian parents never really seriously ponder this. They just walk lockstep in what ever culture they find familiar. Far too many parents today see education as 'job training' or the accumulation of vast amounts of knowledge. That is a fairly new way of viewing education. If you trace the stream of such educational philosophy you may be well surprised from whence it floweth. It ain't pretty. But, it has accomplished its goal.

Parents are given a vitally important task. The Scriptures are flush with directive, wisdom, example, and exhortation to the task. They should be well studied before children are en route.


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## Idelette (Jan 11, 2010)

I wasn't home-schooled myself, and went to public schools all the way through University. I wasn't exposed to HS until I became a believer. At first, I didn't think it was necessarily better. But over the years, I have been convinced that I would homeschool without a question!

I agree with Taylor that the responsibility of training up a child lies with the parents. I also believe that parents have the responsibility to guard their children from the world and the world's influence. And you simply cannot do that if your are not the one controlling what material is being taught. I can recall all the philosophical teachings, the homosexuality, the blatant promiscuity and all the other sinful things that are actually taught in public schools--and that's not including the influence of peers! I can't tell you how many times I had to challenge teachers or talk to Dept. Heads because of books or movies that were blatantly immoral and yet were required to be viewed! Or how many times, I had to challenge professors that were teaching false things when it came to christianity or history. There are children's books that are now required to be read in public schools that promote homosexuality or teach that stealing is okay...these are things that will influence our children no matter "how strong" they are. And even in christian schools....there is a host of questionable material that is still being taught. 

Apart from that, no one can give your child a tailored education like you can! You know you child better than anyone else does....you know where their weaknesses are, and how to focus on strengthening those areas. There is also the added benefit for the mothers themselves that teach. I can't tell you how many HS mothers have told me what a blessing it is to have that time with their children, and how much they've grown and learned themselves! I don't believe someone needs to have a teaching degree to HS....but a willing spirit and the conviction of these responsibilities!

The statistics are very clear; HS children are far more intelligent, much more successful, and more skilled than those that are not. And most of them end up becoming very strong believers! For me its not even a question. I realize that many people have financial struggles and it may not always be feasible, but I believe the responsibility that I would have as a parent far outweighs any financial cost that it would have. In my honest opinion, the cost of our children's spiritual well-being should not be taken lightly!


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## py3ak (Jan 11, 2010)

I think that these discussions are often difficult because people fail to make certain necessary distinctions. I'm deriving my terminology from C.S. Lewis, but the concepts seem pretty clear whatever you want to call them. Under the word "education" people include different things, which leads to confusion.

One thing people sometimes mean by "education" is vocational training. Learning skills that can be used - the mechanic arts, computer literacy, etc. I think it will be generally acknowledged that the main thing here is to learn from someone who knows his stuff. Law school or medical school or (excuse me) seminary are vocational training. They attempt to give you the knowledge and skills to do a certain job adequately.

Another part of what people mean by "education" is the formation of character (Lewis reserves "education" for this aspect). I hope it would be generally agreed that farming this out to the ungodly or the ill-informed is a bad idea. This relates to questions of right and wrong, and how you react in the face of them. This is clearly the responsibility of parents, and however they may avail themselves of assistance, they have to answer for it if their children have acquired patterns of ungodly behaviour from those who were entrusted with the formation of their character. In this sense, education is the inculcation of wisdom, and is broader and deeper than vocational training.

A third thing people mean by "education" is learning - an acquisition of knowledge for the love of the subject. This, again, is obviously something that is best picked up by those who have attained to a good measure of learning in their particular subject. With some of the less applied sciences, or the humanities generally, this is what ought to be imparted.

Now as Lewis points out, part of the trickiness is that a measure of "learning" is regarded as essential polish in finishing an "education" - a gentleman's character is not really fully formed if he doesn't go down to University and obtain a degree. That naturally means that a lot of people get sent down to University who don't love the subject, and are impatient of learning, and at most want some vocational training. But the decline of the university because of the prevalence of people going to college is a subject for another time. For now, it seems that people would be helped by considering what aspect of "education" they are considering. 

When you homeschool, obviously the formation of character is a major concern. I doubt there are many teachers in school who refrain from forming character, and of course in any school, public or private, it's going to be somewhat hit or miss whether you get a teacher whose efforts in forming character will not undermine your own. This leaves open the possibility for people to have a good experience (as many undoubtedly have).
Of course, when you homeschool you can't simply neglect learning and vocational training. So either you find a way to do that yourself (sometimes well, sometimes badly), you postpone it until the child has left home, or you supplement in those areas with people of skill and learning.

It is ungodly to allow your child's character to be formed by teachers promoting books about two daddies. It is not ungodly to allow your child to learn long division from those same teachers. But the difficulty arises in trying to figure out how to trust that the teacher will either not pass from training to education - from imparting knowledge and skill to forming character, or that he will do so only in an acceptable way. Because these neat divisions cannot be entirely maintained in real life; but that is why Christian parents need to do their best to make sure that they are the fundamental, formative force in their childrens' characters, and that their formation is Biblically sound; so that any bleed-through from trainers or academics can be processed by the children. But this perspective does allow for cases where other educators have earned a position of trust, or where the matter to be learned, or the process of learning is such that additional help is required. So a homeschooled girl of my acquaintance goes to therapy with a non-Christian to assist in her dyslexia: but it is her parents who set her norms of conduct and teach her about right and wrong.


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## a mere housewife (Jan 11, 2010)

Much as I would hope to homeschool children if we had them, I have homeschooled a foster child, and while he actually learned to read and to add (something he had not learned in the public school system [special ed] though he was in the 5th grade), it was incredibly difficult and I relapsed into mono with the stress and exhaustion. For some mothers it is best to have help (there is no command in Scripture for the wife to teach the children trades or knowledge of special subjects: the virtuous woman, in all the activities listed, does not appear to have homeschooled those who rose up and called her blessed). Since I am not convicted that the Bible mandates homeschooling when it mandates training our children, I would be open to considering other options, depending on the child and the options.


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## Scottish Lass (Jan 11, 2010)

Heidi, I would also venture that jumping in the middle would be more difficult than starting from the beginning.


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## calgal (Jan 11, 2010)

Ruben one thing came to mind: do you trust the parents to form the character of their children before the child ever sets foot in a classroom? Kids are in school to learn about math, about languages, music, art and science. Mom and dad should be teaching them character every day.


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## a mere housewife (Jan 11, 2010)

Anna, I can venture to hope that is quite true now (and I had a much better experience teaching the alphabet etc. to the little girl I nannied previously), but at the time I was so sick and scarcely able to function that it was difficult to imagine . Thanks though, for that encouraging reminder. I do think special ed situations will always be more difficult and that the mother may need more help -- though they may also be more critical, with the extra attention the children require: I think the mothers I know who are doing this daily deserve a medal (their children are of course, not so much notable for academics, social skills -- though there are other areas of sweetness etc -- but they don't have that sort of reward -- and it can tend to be pretty disheartening in general).


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## etexas (Jan 11, 2010)

From feedback so far: I feel that either HS, Christian Private, or actually, there ARE (some) still decent Public schools systems. I think that any number of things could factor in which oddly would rule none of the options out for a Christian parent. Some have spoken of "mandate" indeed, Rueben wisely touched upon it. A mandate in this is in development of ethics and morality, this must emerge from :In this order, parents, the Church, Holy Writ. There is no mandate saying, HS, Private, Public. Indeed, good or ill can come from any of the 3 if the true mandates of family, church and scripture are not followed. In summation, I have met now those who have come from all 3 types of education. What is best? I cannot say, it would be sheer arrogance and foolishness for me to say simply given that too many factors are in play. ALL can can say with confidence is any child in any system must be first and foremost rooted and grounded in Christ Jesus and the Holy Word. Blessings in the LORD.


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## bill (Jan 11, 2010)

O.K I know I will be a minority and maybe even looked down on, but that is o.k. I have four kids and public school three of them. The other child is just two years old. I and my wife are always involved in what is being taught and the teachers are always willing to let us know or review the materials they are teaching our kids. My wife has been able to have a big impact in our school, both with the teachers, children and administration. She even began a after school Bible study on Monday's using the schools property. (It has been upheld in the supreme courts in other cases) The principal and many of there teachers have even let their kids attend the bible study. Every thing she teaches is Reformed and she even includes the WSC. I say this just to let you know I think private school is and should not always be ruled out. Through my wife's ministry other kids have herd the Gospel and some have showed signs of repentance. Praise God!!! Sure my kids are around kids that have less desirable background, sure my kids get some of the worldly education. But in each case I and my wife can use this to educate my kids with the Bible. You may ask if I am afraid the the other kids will have a bad influence on my kids, sure but even if you private school or H.S. it still comes down to sin is a matter of the heart and no matter what what hedge you put in front of them they are still sinners in need of Grace. I worry and pray every day, but my kids have even witnessed with the kids the befriend. When my son was in first grade a kid came into his class. This kid had a lot of learning problems and many kids would not pay attention to him. The teacher placed this kid next to my son. She told my wife that she knew my son would be a good influence on him and would help him in his studies. That may be a little thing, but both the teacher and this boy have been influence by what we teach my son from the scriptures. The public school can be tough, but there are many kids there in need of the Gospel. I just add this so you may reconsider your statement the Public School is not a option. Daniel had worldly education, but by Gods Grace he made an impact along with some of his friends. I ask you to pray for public school and think twice before you jump to conclusions.


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## Curt (Jan 11, 2010)

etexas said:


> From feedback so far: I feel that either HS, Christian Private, or actually, there ARE (some) still decent Public schools systems. I think that any number of things could factor in which oddly would rule none of the options out for a Christian parent. Some have spoken of "mandate" indeed, Rueben wisely touched upon it. A mandate in this is in development of ethics and morality, this must emerge from :In this order, parents, the Church, Holy Writ. There is no mandate saying, HS, Private, Public. Indeed, good or ill can come from any of the 3 if the true mandates of family, church and scripture are not followed. In summation, I have met now those who have come from all 3 types of education. What is best? I cannot say, it would be sheer arrogance and foolishness for me to say simply given that too many factors are in play. ALL can can say with confidence is any child in any system must be first and foremost rooted and grounded in Christ Jesus and the Holy Word. Blessings in the LORD.


 
As a parent who home-educated my two daughters, have taught in public and private schools, and advocated for education that is Christian around the world, let me add my two cents. Yes, we (parents) are the ones who are to be in control of the children God has given to us to raise. This may be done by totally doing it at home or by sub-contracting parts of it. The key is to be involved and be in charge. None of the options is inherently evil or sinful. As with many things in life, the keys are obedience and heart condition.


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## py3ak (Jan 11, 2010)

calgal said:


> Ruben one thing came to mind: do you trust the parents to form the character of their children before the child ever sets foot in a classroom? Kids are in school to learn about math, about languages, music, art and science. Mom and dad should be teaching them character every day.


 
That's a difficult question, Gail. A lot of it depends on _when_ the child is setting foot in the classroom. Recollecting myself at age 5, for instance, a large part of my character was still unformed. Formation takes time. 
Of course parents are to be teaching character every day; that's not negotiable, no matter what your situation is. But part of being wise about teaching character is recognizing that some things are bad influences that your child is too weak or foolish or simply young to resist appropriately. And teachers can be one of those influences. Because the way they teach science (or whatever), or the way they deal with disciplinary issues in the class can be deleterious.


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## calgal (Jan 12, 2010)

py3ak said:


> calgal said:
> 
> 
> > Ruben one thing came to mind: do you trust the parents to form the character of their children before the child ever sets foot in a classroom? Kids are in school to learn about math, about languages, music, art and science. Mom and dad should be teaching them character every day.
> ...


 
I agree a bad teacher can be a nightmare. So can a parent who is ill equipped, abusive, selfish or cruel not to mention lazy. And there are plenty of examples of good and bad in all three systems of education. If your child is being taught something detrimental then it is the parent's responsibility to act wisely in the interest of the child.


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## nasa30 (Jan 12, 2010)

> I think the mothers I know who are doing this daily deserve a medal (*their children are of course, not so much notable for academics, social skills* -- though there are other areas of sweetness etc -- but they don't have that sort of reward -- and it can tend to be pretty disheartening in general).


 
Heidi, will you please elaborate what you meant in the bolded section above? Thanks


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## a mere housewife (Jan 12, 2010)

nasa30 said:


> > I think the mothers I know who are doing this daily deserve a medal (*their children are of course, not so much notable for academics, social skills* -- though there are other areas of sweetness etc -- but they don't have that sort of reward -- and it can tend to be pretty disheartening in general).
> 
> 
> Heidi, will you please elaborate what you meant in the bolded section above? Thanks



I think most people who struggle with the normal discouragements of an old nature could tell you that homeschooling a child who has a learning disorder is often discouraging on both scores, and that it can even hurt to be around other people's homeschooled children. I had to give up my ideas that people were going to come up to me and say, 'Wow, your child is so brilliant! And you homeschool.' or 'Your child is so well behaved -- how do you do it?' You struggle and struggle with the same behavioural issues over every single aspect of the child's day, and it's a major victory to do something that is even three or four levels behind what many other children his age are doing in school. Your own pride has to take quite a backseat in the matter, because in all likelihood it isn't going to have the kind of gratification that is involved when your child publicly excels. And more discouragingly, you often aren't going to see the progress yourself day to day.

In my experience there is quite a depth of sweetness in many special ed children, though, that only those who work closely with them know and are rewarded by. I would sincerely love to do foster care again, and if we do, I am more than open to having a special needs child. I am not sure I would insist on homeschooling them (though I would certainly work with them at home) this time, though, if there were other options -- given how difficult I know this is, and my own limitations; there is only so much I personally can do; and I would want to be careful to do that part as well as I am able.


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## JBaldwin (Jan 12, 2010)

> In my experience there is quite a depth of sweetness in many special ed children, though, that only those who work closely with them know and are rewarded by. I would sincerely love to do foster care again, and if we do, I am more than open to having a special needs child. I am not sure I would insist on homeschooling them (though I would certainly work with them at home) this time, though, if there were other options -- given how difficult I know this is, and my own limitations; there is only so much I personally can do; and I would want to be careful to do that part as well as I am able.



The greatest gift a parent or foster parent can give a special needs child In my humble opinion is to homeschool them, or at the very least stay at home with them and bring in tutors to help. Over the years, I have observed special needs children who were sent off to public schools vs. those who were kept at home and generally speaking those who were kept at home and given the extra love have faired far better than those who were dumped into a program. 

Regarding your comments about homeschooling a special needs child, I agree. It can be very painful to watch other children excel and yours struggle day after day. The rewards of working with them are great.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 12, 2010)

> That's a difficult question, Gail. A lot of it depends on when the child is setting foot in the classroom. Recollecting myself at age 5, for instance, a large part of my character was still unformed. Formation takes time.
> Of course parents are to be teaching character every day; that's not negotiable, no matter what your situation is. But part of being wise about teaching character is recognizing that some things are bad influences that your child is too weak or foolish or simply young to resist appropriately. And teachers can be one of those influences. Because the way they teach science (or whatever), or the way they deal with disciplinary issues in the class can be deleterious.



Another facet of this is providing the influence at the age that the child can use it. I can hammer away at maturity issues with my 6 year old but it simply won't take fully right now. I must plant the seed, I must water as he grows, but at the end of the day, he needs my input all along, because I have to be watering the whole way along. That's one more reason we teach as we do, because though we have already planted, watering is a continuous activity. I don't think I could compete using the few hours a day I would have with my child versus the eight he'd get with his peers/teachers if he went to school. I don't want them doing the watering; what they give him may be toxic, and it is my responsibility to make sure that he is getting what God intends. Yes, this can be found at a Christian school, but the chance of it being found in a public school is almost nil.


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## Scottish Lass (Jan 12, 2010)

And for the record, as an early responder to the OP, I am a product of public schools (K-university), taught public school for six years, private for one, and teach at a homeschool co-op currently.


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## py3ak (Jan 12, 2010)

calgal said:


> I agree a bad teacher can be a nightmare. So can a parent who is ill equipped, abusive, selfish or cruel not to mention lazy. And there are plenty of examples of good and bad in all three systems of education. If your child is being taught something detrimental then it is the parent's responsibility to act wisely in the interest of the child.


 
That's another reason your question is difficult: there are most certainly lots of parents whom one does not wish to trust with forming the character of their children. But that character formation is a duty that God has given to them: their failures in that line do not change the fact of that duty. At the end of the day that any child is formed into anything other than a quivering ball of selfish psychoses is rather amazing; but the fact that God's grace overrides circumstances and disadvantages doesn't mean that parents aren't responsible for doing their level best.


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## Adam's Eve (Jan 12, 2010)

I was homeschooled, and I have to say that my Mom couldn't teach us the calculus stuff, and all that, but what we did come away from school with was a good work ethic, and the ability to think independently. We lived on a farm, and had to care for animals, vegetables, etc, which taught us responsibility, and my dad also had a home business, which taught us where our money came from... the work of our hands! I think these things are very important, besides the obvious training and discipling in God's word.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 12, 2010)

> I was homeschooled, and I have to say that my Mom couldn't teach us the calculus stuff, and all that, but what we did come away from school with was a good work ethic, and the ability to think independently. We lived on a farm, and had to care for animals, vegetables, etc, which taught us responsibility, and my dad also had a home business, which taught us where our money came from... the work of our hands! I think these things are very important, besides the obvious training and discipling in God's word.



That makes me think of one other angle in all this: we are not expecting our children to be on the Harvard rowing team at any point in their lives. To us, their schooling is primarily there to make them useful instruments in God's kingdom. They will be in the workforce and should be trained for that future (that is, we don't want them to suffer financially because they were given an education that eschewed any planning for a career) but we are not in it for high-octane academics leading to an Ivy League school first and foremost.


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## LawrenceU (Jan 12, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> > I was homeschooled, and I have to say that my Mom couldn't teach us the calculus stuff, and all that, but what we did come away from school with was a good work ethic, and the ability to think independently. We lived on a farm, and had to care for animals, vegetables, etc, which taught us responsibility, and my dad also had a home business, which taught us where our money came from... the work of our hands! I think these things are very important, besides the obvious training and discipling in God's word.
> 
> 
> 
> That makes me think of one other angle in all this: we are not expecting our children to be on the Harvard rowing team at any point in their lives. To us, their schooling is primarily there to make them useful instruments in God's kingdom. They will be in the workforce and should be trained for that future (that is, we don't want them to suffer financially because they were given an education that eschewed any planning for a career) but we are not in it for high-octane academics leading to an Ivy League school first and foremost.


 

Another facet: I keep hearing things like, 'You can't teach calculus / advanced sciences / etc. ' as a reason that homeschooling is inferior. While not taking anything away from the study of those things: how many jobs / life long careers require such knowledge? (And, just so you know, one of my majors require all of that.) Very few. And, if public / private schools are so superior at teaching these subjects why is it that our young people from these institutions do so miserably at them? Even 'honours' students. It is a straw man argument all the way around. If your child needs this type of education you can do it from the home, even in the middle of nowhere. It has pretty much always been that way, even more so now.


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## nasa30 (Jan 12, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> > > I was homeschooled, and I have to say that my Mom couldn't teach us the calculus stuff, and all that, but what we did come away from school with was a good work ethic, and the ability to think independently. We lived on a farm, and had to care for animals, vegetables, etc, which taught us responsibility, and my dad also had a home business, which taught us where our money came from... the work of our hands! I think these things are very important, besides the obvious training and discipling in God's word.
> ...


 
Lawrence, You are so correct. It really is a straw man argument. If a family does not want to do what it takes to arrange their life so they can HS, then don't. That's your choice as parent but HS should not be marginalized on fiction. The stats show time and time again that home schoolers do by far better in standardized tests then public or priivate school and my university prof friends say that HS are much better students as a whole. Today, more than ever, advanced classes can be taught from the home.


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## Megan Mozart (Jan 12, 2010)

I have also heard that universities and colleges love homeschoolers and it's easier to get in if you were homeschooled.


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## Christusregnat (Jan 12, 2010)

Adam's Eve said:


> I was homeschooled, and I have to say that my Mom couldn't teach us the calculus stuff, and all that, but what we did come away from school with was a good work ethic, and the ability to think independently. We lived on a farm, and had to care for animals, vegetables, etc, which taught us responsibility, and my dad also had a home business, which taught us where our money came from... the work of our hands! I think these things are very important, besides the obvious training and discipling in God's word.


 
I can vouch for the high-quality education my wife received. As she modestly alluded to, she is a very hard-working and responsible helpmeet and woman, and an excellent wife, home-school teacher, mother, and keeper at home. She learned all that she needed and more, and is one of the best researchers on medical and family issues that I know. She cured my vericose veins within a few months of our being married, plus I gained 60 pounds in that same time frame (ehem... due to the excellent cooking she learned while schooling). She has also introduced me to a whole set of literary works to which I had not been exposed previously (Stephen Lawhead, Woodehouse, Lord Peter Whimsey, etc.).

Love you babe!


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## Idelette (Jan 12, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> Another facet: I keep hearing things like, 'You can't teach calculus / advanced sciences / etc. ' as a reason that homeschooling is inferior. While not taking anything away from the study of those things: how many jobs / life long careers require such knowledge? (And, just so you know, one of my majors require all of that.) Very few. And, if public / private schools are so superior at teaching these subjects why is it that our young people from these institutions do so miserably at them? Even 'honours' students. It is a straw man argument all the way around. If your child needs this type of education you can do it from the home, even in the middle of nowhere. It has pretty much always been that way, even more so now.


 
I completely agree that it is a straw man argument! First of all, there's a good 12 years of education that can take place before you even get into those upper level subjects. So, that argument doesn't really apply until the latter stages of schooling anyhow. Also, I think if parents truly desire to homeschool they will find a way around these issues rather than see them as stumbling blocks to homeschooling at all. I know several HS families that would get together, and would actually take turns teaching specific skills or subjects. For example, I know an engineer that would teach higher level mathematics and science to the children, while someone else would teach Spanish or French etc. I don't view these things as stumbling blocks to HS, but as opportunities.


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## VanDood (Jan 12, 2010)

Though we have the option of a solid Christian school, we choose to continue to homeschool because we will are going through a period of moving every few years. Homeschooling provides a constant environment for our children, moving and changing schools can be very difficult. We may choose to enroll them in school in the future, (especially for high school) but for now this works well.


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## ChariotsofFire (Jan 12, 2010)

I went to a private Christian school for K-12. Growing up, our church had a number of families who homeschooled, but I never really interested me till after college when I began to work Alpha Omega. I had numerous discussions with parents who homeschooled around the country, and the idea of homeschooling really began to grow on me. 

I see homeschooling as a very viable option for our family, since my dear wife enjoys staying at home already with our 1-year-old. I wouldn't say using a private school is unbiblical, but I just see some definite advantages to homeschooling. Having that extra time to spend with your children to train them up in the Lord seems like it would be a real blessing. Also it seems like it's a better use of time, as homeschool kids don't have the down time you find in the classroom.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 12, 2010)

> Homeschooling provides a constant environment for our children, moving and changing schools can be very difficult.



I know of a number of families who are not happy with the schools that their children are in (but don't see homeschooling as an option), but they don't feel right about taking them out because of the hardship that the children will suffer because of it. The stability of the home helps keep them on an even keel.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 12, 2010)

Another funny thing is that I see a lot of URC families that homeschool. As a newer denomination, there are not many URC schools around (though there is one opening in St George, Ontario in the fall of 2010). Thus while many URC families homeschool now, will that ratio be greatly different in 15 years? Not sure...


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## a mere housewife (Jan 12, 2010)

Yet the balancing part of the academic question would be to point out that many of the notable scholars throughout church history and history in general would simply not have been, if they had been taught by their moms and dads? Whether or not most children will go beyond the point of the usual amount of learning necessary to function in their society is certainly up for debate, but for those who *have* (and their contributions to society are nothing to sneeze at), learning from someone who knows the subject matter has not been a negligible advantage? I agree that this doesn't constitute an argument for the general inferiority of homeschooling, but it does make considering other options for exceptional children sensible.

Anecdotally, the people I personally have known who were public school honor students are exceptionally well educated.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 12, 2010)

> Yet the balancing part of the academic question would be to point out that many of the notable scholars throughout church history and history in general would simply not have been, if they had been taught by their moms and dads? Whether or not most children will go beyond the point of the usual amount of learning necessary to function in their society is certainly up for debate, but for those who *have* (and their contributions to society are nothing to sneeze at), learning from someone who knows the subject matter has not been a negligible advantage? I agree that this doesn't constitute an argument for the general inferiority of homeschooling, but it does make considering other options for exceptional children sensible.



Thing is, if they show aptitude for further study in whatever field, there are universities a plenty for them to study at. How many of these brilliant scholars stopped right after high school? I would think none - they had academic drive that lead them further down that road. I don't _want_ my children to stop right after high school, but their academic acumen will not aid in their sanctification. I think that what we're trying to do here (as a general rule) is incubate/cultivate the next selfless missionary, not the next Albert Einstein. For all the good Einstein did, the world _needs_ the gospel, it does not _need_ the theory of relativity. We're not trying to produce Luddites by any means, but our focus MUST be the gospel first and foremost. Should they go on to seminary afterward, then great! What a blessing! Or MIT - OK!

(Also, I think lil' Al was partially homeschooled...)


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## a mere housewife (Jan 13, 2010)

Kevin, I certainly appreciate that point of view -- godliness is more important than academics (though my own point re: eduation itself is that in general scholarly people throughout history like Augustine and C. S. Lewis etc. were already learning in 'grammar' school far more than their parents could have taught them: which was not a negligible aspect of their being able to go on so brilliantly from there). However -- I find this very hard to put into words -- having been homeschooled myself, I cannot think of it as a promised land. Almost universally I have seen that where the parents desired to be 'the biggest influence in their childrens' lives' they got their wish -- and their children escaped none of the sinfulness of unideal situations, because their parents were also sinners. The parents' faults have borne so heavily (lack of discipline, unselfishness, uncharity, anger, even in cases sexual perversion), magnified by the intensity of insulation, that the lives of homeschooled children I grew up with are by a large, if not a shambles -- very deeply scarred by sin. The teenagers turned to alcohol, drugs, sex, etc., as regularly as those I grew up with who were put in Christian schools, and more regularly than those whose parents put them in a public school. Please do not mistake me for saying that my experience is the norm. But having had it, I cannot believe that homeschooling makes it possible to keep one's children from damaging influences. _ I_ am a damaging influence -- so are you, dear reader, whoever you are. I am terrified at the thought of being the biggest influence in my childrens' lives. May God give me grace not to default in any area of responsibility, but may He send many men and women to override my failings being merely repeated with a more vicious tendency in them.

In my experience, having a good relationship with one's parents, esp. through teenage years, was far more important than how a child was educated. And in my experience, homeschooling did not generally promote such a relationship. Again, this has only been one person's experience -- and it was my experience growing up: my friends who homeschool give me a much more positive appreciation for it all. But I hope it explains my lack of idealistic fervour -- though I am not antagonistic (hopefully obviously, as I've done this myself and would hope to do it again), and honor very much the sacrifices involved.

[edit: I am hesitant about the language of *aiming* to cultivate missionaries by education rather than some other calling etc -- surely it is God who calls and cultivates his missionaries? --If I've misunderstood, could you clarify that? thanks ]


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## nasa30 (Jan 13, 2010)

Heidi, I am sorry to hear that your home schooling experience was that bad. I do have to say that your story is a rarity to me and our group of HS in my area are in the thousands. I am not saying that every HS family is a success story, but I have not seen anything like you describe. Not even close. Our community of HS is fantastic and our kids are preferred at the two local colleges (one University and one state college) We are organized and do not isolate our kids. Our HS basketball team were actually National Champs last year in our division. Our basketball and football teams play private as well as public schools so our kids are exposed to a variety of people. Because of that fact, your statement:


> I am terrified at the thought of being the biggest influence in my children's' lives


 is a foreign concept to me. I think I understand what you mean, I am a sinner after all, but I am a sinner that loves my children more than anyone here on planet Earth so I am ok with my wife and I being their biggest influence.

When asked if I think that I am indoctrinating my children by keeping them at home I answer a resounding "YES, Yes I am" because I want to do it before and to counter the cultures indoctrination of them.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 13, 2010)

> [edit: I am hesitant about the language of *aiming* to cultivate missionaries by education rather than some other calling etc -- surely it is God who calls and cultivates his missionaries? --If I've misunderstood, could you clarify that? thanks ]



To clarify: that we are cultivating a generation of witnesses for Him. He who is not a missionary is a mission field. But that does not mean that a 'missionary' is a Pergy heading off into the jungle. It simply means that we spread the gospel as Christians, but that we are equipped to do so.

As for being the biggest influence in my children's lives, yes, it is at times terrifying. And humbling. And brings to you the fact that homeschooling is not just traipsing through the tulips, it is a grave thing. But we are called to train up our children in the way they should go. So we do.


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## a mere housewife (Jan 13, 2010)

I'm afraid I can't explain foreign concepts very well  I know that loving people cannot redeem them from our sins.

No, as I said above, I do not mean to set up my experience as the norm. We did have basketball teams etc. too -- that, along with church camp and other wholesome settings, was where a lot of the drugs, sex, etc. took place: without the parents' knowledge. Regardless of whether such experiences are common (and obviously, they are going to be more common than parents will ever know) I think it is good to appreciate that we can't 'produce' grace by any effort, in our own lives or anyone else's -- and that homeschooling is not a 'means of grace' -- it is not salvific. I would personally do it not because I think it is likely to save my children from the heartbreak and misery of being affected by their own and other people's sins, but as a matter of the lesser of evils in certain situations, and so of my own duties to a child.

Kevin, thanks for clarifying: I need to think more about that but it does make me hesitate less . Incidentally, please let Elizabeth know that I'm still thinking of her and praying re: the morning sickness (which I hope is passing?)


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## nasa30 (Jan 13, 2010)

> I know that loving people cannot redeem them from our sins.





> and that homeschooling is not a 'means of grace' -- it is not salvific


 

I don't believe I have ever said that my loving my children will redeem them from our sins nor do I believe that we can 'produce' grace by any effort of mine. That is the work of our sovereign Lord and if that is what you think that we are trying to do by home schooling, then we are not on a close enough plane to talk about this. I am not so naive to think that we as parents know everything that our children do or think but that is all the more reason that I want to be more involved in my children's day to day by home schooling.


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## a mere housewife (Jan 13, 2010)

nasa30 said:


> > I know that loving people cannot redeem them from our sins.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Judson, I think there is some further miscommunication  -- I was trying to further explain my own point of view about homeschooling, which you had said was confusingly stated: I sincerely had no intention of attempting to define yours. In my experience, homeschooling is indeed often spoken of as if it were a means of grace; and in my experience human nature tends to make a law and a gospel out of all sorts of things that are neither -- but I did not have you in mind while reflecting on my experience. Thank you for the interaction.


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## TimV (Jan 13, 2010)

Heidi *again* raises good points. Homeschooling isn't perfect, and is no guarantee of successful child rearing. A good analogy would be which church you send your kids to. After all in both cases one is dealing with education. Going with your kids to a NAPARC church is no guarantee of having the kids turn out well, as is obvious to anyone who's had several years experience in those churches. It's just the alternatives are generally worse. There are plenty of secular churches out there, and when you look at the kids raised in those churches on the whole (and that's all that one can really do with such a general thread) then most people who have observed these things will admit that kids raised in solid Reformed churches turn out better than kids raised in feminized social gospel settings.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 13, 2010)

> I think it is good to appreciate that we can't 'produce' grace by any effort, in our own lives or anyone else's -- and that homeschooling is not a 'means of grace' -- it is not salvific.



Agreed, I don't think anyone would argue with you on that! Neither is stewardship of anything salvific, but attempting to raise our children in His ways (in spite of our failings) is a means of serving the Lord, and it is what He demands. There is some latitude on _how_ that is done, but I think that too often we take that and run with it to the Nth degree.

PS - Elizabeth is not so nauseated now, and last night for the first time, she felt the baby move. We go in for an ultrasound next week and we may get to know the sex of the baby. Thank you for your continued prayers!


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## Honor (Jan 13, 2010)

ok first an admission... I have not read all the posts.(sorry)
alrighty then this is just me and my opinion so beware before continuing.
I homeschool our 5 and 4 year old. specifically I like it... gernerally I hate it. what do I mean? I know my stregths and weaknesses. I want to be the best at everything I attempt. I want to be the best wife I could possibly be. I want to be the best mother and house keeper and wife that I can be and right now with a 6 week old I feel like I am being pulled in 4 ways and I am not doing a great job at any of them so i am frustrated and irratable all the time. Plus my 6 year old is on one level and my 4 year old is on another level and they are soooo easily destracted that I spend most of my day disciplining and redirecting then teaching. I want the best possible education and while I want to homeschool with my whole heart I really really do.... honestly I suck at it. we have desided that after we have looked and streched and pinched our budget we can not afford private school ( and trust me we have tried to get a scholorship but the school that is attached with our church only give 50% scholorships and as we all know 2 50s make a whole) so next school year we are going to put the boys in public school *ducks*
now before you get out the pitchforks I urge you to respond with grace because I have tried for two years to give my boys the best education I can and I am failing... we do it with a heavy heart. But even more than our pride we want our boys to have a good education that is more than a few hours a couple of days a week and right now that is all it is... maybe it would be different if we had the money to get a whole HS curriculum set but we don't so this is what we have desided to do. I think that homeschool is best (if you can do it) and if you can afford it private school is great too and if you can't do either than you have to make do and get the best you can out of public school. 
Max I don't know if this helps you but this is us


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## a mere housewife (Jan 13, 2010)

Jessica, I'm so sorry you're struggling with everything and the new baby, and will pray for you.


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## Honor (Jan 13, 2010)

thanks


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## Mindaboo (Jan 13, 2010)

> ok first an admission... I have not read all the posts.(sorry)
> alrighty then this is just me and my opinion so beware before continuing.
> I homeschool our 5 and 4 year old. specifically I like it... gernerally I hate it. what do I mean? I know my stregths and weaknesses. I want to be the best at everything I attempt.



First of all let me say that I feel like this some days too! I remember having a new baby homeschooling a then 7 and 5 year old, the next year having a new baby again in the middle of Brad's chimney sweep season. When you have a new baby and especially when you have one that has had some problems you need to give yourself some grace. You don't need to do everything. You can school all year, that is what we do. Life happens and we have taken as much as 4 or 5 months off at a time when needed. When Brad's dad was dying from cancer it was more important for us to be there to help him. 



> I want to be the best wife I could possibly be. I want to be the best mother and house keeper and wife that I can be and right now with a 6 week old I feel like I am being pulled in 4 ways and I am not doing a great job at any of them so i am frustrated and irratable all the time. Plus my 6 year old is on one level and my 4 year old is on another level and they are soooo easily destracted that I spend most of my day disciplining and redirecting then teaching. I want the best possible education and while I want to homeschool with my whole heart I really really do.... honestly I suck at it. we have desided that after we have looked and streched and pinched our budget we can not afford private school ( and trust me we have tried to get a scholorship but the school that is attached with our church only give 50% scholorships and as we all know 2 50s make a whole) so next school year we are going to put the boys in public school *ducks*
> now before you get out the pitchforks I urge you to respond with grace because I have tried for two years to give my boys the best education I can and I am failing... we do it with a heavy heart. But even more than our pride we want our boys to have a good education that is more than a few hours a couple of days a week and right now that is all it is... maybe it would be different if we had the money to get a whole HS curriculum set but we don't so this is what we have desided to do. I think that homeschool is best (if you can do it) and if you can afford it private school is great too and if you can't do either than you have to make do and get the best you can out of public school.
> Max I don't know if this helps you but this is us



Let me add I suck too, but by God's grace He fills in the gaps. You are being way to hard on yourself. If you can do math and reading in a day that is more than enough for the ages you have. I struggle with keeping my house clean, with being a good wife, and being a good mother. The truth is I fail constantly. I beat myself up daily for not getting it all done. But let me say this, my kids always test above average well above and I am always amazed, because in all honesty I don't do that much with them. It is all the Lord and not me. If you feel like you need to put your kids in school the Lord will lead you and make the way clear. Give yourself some time, you have a lot of pressure on you. The Lord will make the way if this is the work He has called you to do. He promises to equip you and He is faithful. Sometimes it is hard to see the good and we have struggled financially and not been able to buy curriculum at different times.

Hang in there, Jessica. I will be praying for you.


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## Honor (Jan 13, 2010)

thanks ya'll... i really didn't write that post to be woe is me... i wrote it to show that there are different reasons for and for not HSing... thank you though... I really thought I would have gotten stones thrown at me


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## Mindaboo (Jan 13, 2010)

> i wrote it to show that there are different reasons for and for not HSing



Of course there are. We aren't homeschooling natzi's, but we do believe it what is best. If you have to put your kids in school the Lord will guard and protect. He is able and He will make it clear.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 13, 2010)

> Let me add I suck too, but by God's grace He fills in the gaps. You are being way to hard on yourself. If you can do math and reading in a day that is more than enough for the ages you have. I struggle with keeping my house clean, with being a good wife, and being a good mother. The truth is I fail constantly. I beat myself up daily for not getting it all done. But let me say this, my kids always test above average well above and I am always amazed, because in all honesty I don't do that much with them. It is all the Lord and not me. If you feel like you need to put your kids in school the Lord will lead you and make the way clear. Give yourself some time, you have a lot of pressure on you. The Lord will make the way if this is the work He has called you to do. He promises to equip you and He is faithful. Sometimes it is hard to see the good and we have struggled financially and not been able to buy curriculum at different times.



My wife often feels the same way, like she's not doing it all, she's not getting enough done. And really does beat herself up about it. It is not easy, and really pushes the ends of endurance with Elizabeth. And I say this as the father of a daughter who in the third grade tested in the 11th grade in Language Arts (and only in math did she not test to high-school levels). Perfection is never attainable here. (And we know that she could have done better in math! )

I think we're all very comfortable in making disparaging remarks about PS in general, but no one is going to cast the first stone when a parent has agonized over such a decision as much as you have, Jessica.


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## Mindaboo (Jan 13, 2010)

> My wife often feels the same way, like she's not doing it all, she's not getting enough done. And really does beat herself up about it. It is not easy. And I say this as the father of a daughter who in the third grade tested in the 11th grade in Language Arts (and only in math did she not test to high-school levels). Perfection is never attainable here. (And we know that she could have done better in math! )



That is the part that truly amazes me. My son tested college level and high school level at everything in 4th grade. I know it had nothing to do with my amazing teaching skills. By the world's standards I would not be considered competent. I only had a high school diploma and I think that was only because they wanted me out of the school. It sure did shut the family up when I presented those results. No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.


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## calgal (Jan 13, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> > Let me add I suck too, but by God's grace He fills in the gaps. You are being way to hard on yourself. If you can do math and reading in a day that is more than enough for the ages you have. I struggle with keeping my house clean, with being a good wife, and being a good mother. The truth is I fail constantly. I beat myself up daily for not getting it all done. But let me say this, my kids always test above average well above and I am always amazed, because in all honesty I don't do that much with them. It is all the Lord and not me. If you feel like you need to put your kids in school the Lord will lead you and make the way clear. Give yourself some time, you have a lot of pressure on you. The Lord will make the way if this is the work He has called you to do. He promises to equip you and He is faithful. Sometimes it is hard to see the good and we have struggled financially and not been able to buy curriculum at different times.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Kevin please don't go making it a we all statement.I just want to make it very clear that not all families are able to homeschool their kids for a variety of reasons. And that whatever choice a family makes is between them and God.


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## ChariotsofFire (Jan 14, 2010)

Jessica, I'll be praying for you and your family. If you do send your kids to public school, stay strong with family worship, and stay especially involved with subjects like science. Some public schools are better depending on what part of the country you live in. Here in NW Iowa, the public schools are pretty tame. Train your kids to realize that not everything they hear at school is true. The other concern I have with public school is the many unbelieving peers your kids will be around. Be involved with the friends they make. Keep praying.


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## cih1355 (Jan 14, 2010)

I think the quality of education at Christian schools can vary. Some Christian schools use a good curriculum and some don’t. I would find out what kind of curriculum your local Christian school is using. There is a Christian curriculum called “Accelerated Christian Education” and this curriculum is far different than the one that a Classical Christian school would use. 

I went to a Christian school from the 4th grade to the 6th grade and then I went to a different Christian school from the 7th grade until I graduated. At the second Christian school that I attended, the students would sit in cubicles and teach themselves various subjects while the adults would supervise them. If the students needed help, the adult supervisors could help them. Most of the exams I took were multiple-choice or fill-in-the-blank exams so I did not get to practice my writing that often. Moreover, I didn’t get write very many essays when I went to school there. The school didn’t have any laboratory equipment for the science courses so I had to do the science experiments at home with the lab kits that my parents bought.


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## py3ak (Jan 14, 2010)

Mindaboo said:


> That is the part that truly amazes me. My son tested college level and high school level at everything in 4th grade. I know it had nothing to do with my amazing teaching skills. By the world's standards I would not be considered competent. I only had a high school diploma and I think that was only because they wanted me out of the school. It sure did shut the family up when I presented those results. No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.


 
I think the discipline that good home school parents teach their kids is a large part of this. If you've been trained to sit still and apply yourself, you're going to do better on tests. I don't mean that to imply that you're not competent, of course, just pointing out one of the ways that lesser expertise is compensated for and often overcome in a good HS model vs. professional schools.


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## nasa30 (Jan 14, 2010)

> If you've been trained to sit still and apply yourself, you're going to do better on tests.


While I agree with this statement which applies to public school, HS or Private School children alike, I do not think it plays a big part in the difference in test scores. We have squirmy HS kids as well. If I were to say a big factor in the test scores it would be the individual attention with pace and learning styles.

Edit: All this talk of scores is really the bonus and not a reason to HS. I just don't like making the test score the focus so I wanted to add this note.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 14, 2010)

> No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.



Thank you! She is indeed an angel and any homeschool results really are an act of the Lord. (I say this because I am certain that only the Holy Ghost could possibly give a woman as much patience and educational fortitude as my wife has!)



> > I think we're all very comfortable in making disparaging remarks about PS in general, but no one is going to cast the first stone when a parent has agonized over such a decision as much as you have, Jessica.
> 
> 
> Kevin please don't go making it a we all statement. I just want to make it very clear that not all families are able to homeschool their kids for a variety of reasons. And that whatever choice a family makes is between them and God.



Then let me clarify: I think that those of us who homeschool/send kids to Christian school (because of our feelings about PS) are able to make disparaging remarks (based on results, anecdotes of friends, statistics, etc., not just mean-spirited off-the-cuff comments) about PS without any qualms (I stand by earlier comments that I made in this thread). But I won't cast a stone at those parents who say that there is no other option for them when all other options have been explored (as is the case here). That being said, if someone goes on about the awesomeness of PS, I will take *great* issue with that, but I can't fault Jessica for her actions. 

That is the expanded version of my earlier comment.


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## kvanlaan (Jan 14, 2010)

> That is the part that truly amazes me. My son tested college level and high school level at everything in 4th grade. I know it had nothing to do with my amazing teaching skills. By the world's standards I would not be considered competent. I only had a high school diploma and I think that was only because they wanted me out of the school. It sure did shut the family up when I presented those results. No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability.



Mindy, one other thing (I'm not done bragging yet!): We've taken some flak from some family members for homeschooling, one of whom is a CS teacher. The same daughter who tested so high in Language Arts wrote a piece on why she loved adoption for our church newsletter a month or two ago - it was passed up the line and will soon be printed in Christian Renewal, as I understand it! (Beaming with pride right now - she's now 12 and it is very exciting for her.) But the point is that this family member called the other day and said that she really enjoyed the article and said that it spoke very highly of my wife's teaching abilities. I was gobsmacked and thankful that this was being recognized. While I know it shouldn't make a big difference, it was a huge encouragement to my wife, because the source of the compliment has always been rather down on homeschooling.

One other quick comment: I know that on this forum, those HSs among us tend to be very outspoken/opinionated/have strong feelings on the matter. This comes from years of being generally treated as weird/out of step/unwise as how we handled our children's education. (For instance, the idea that once we were back from China, we would 'of course' be putting our children in CS; it was unthinkable that we would keep HS when we had the option of a 'real' school.) These years of pummelling have left us with a general feeling of 'we must succeed or we will be dismissed as nutcases' and gives your average HS family a real fire in the belly about HS.


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## alb1 (Jan 14, 2010)

Jessica

My wife has taught in public elementary schools for around 15 years now. She has always had some other Christians as co-workers and this covers 2 states and 6 different schools. She brings out the best in low end students. There are some teachers out there in the public system that know that there is more to educating a child than just high standardized test scores. My daughter, who is now in college, attended public schools. She spent her whole summer between her college sophmore and junior years as a missionary intern in another country. Bring your kids up in the training and instruction of the Lord the best way that you can. God works through people in various places, that come from all kinds of educational backgrounds, to bring glory unto himself.


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## Jon Peters (Jan 14, 2010)

My wife homeschooled our three older kids and had to take care of the baby (now 2) for the last couple of years. We recently put our kids in public school. We understand where you are coming from. I'm comfortable with our decision but we take things year to year. At some point I suspect we will HS again, but not right now.

Hang in there.

Edit: This is a response to Jessica's post #81. Her quote didn't show up.


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## py3ak (Jan 14, 2010)

nasa30 said:


> While I agree with this statement which applies to public school, HS or Private School children alike, I do not think it plays a big part in the difference in test scores. We have squirmy HS kids as well. If I were to say a big factor in the test scores it would be the individual attention with pace and learning styles.


 
This is a remarkably literal reading of my comment. Naturally, neither squirming nor sitting still will impact your test scores in the same way that putting down the wrong answers on the test will. But the environment of testing involves far more than recall and understanding: it involves pressure of a particular kind, and undisciplined children who haven't learned to control themselves so as to be able to apply themselves to a given task in unpropitious circumstances will not do as well as those who can remain calm, skip hard questions to come back to later, figure things out when the clock is ticking, and read the frustrating question again without giving up.


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## nasa30 (Jan 14, 2010)

py3ak said:


> nasa30 said:
> 
> 
> > While I agree with this statement which applies to public school, HS or Private School children alike, I do not think it plays a big part in the difference in test scores. We have squirmy HS kids as well. If I were to say a big factor in the test scores it would be the individual attention with pace and learning styles.
> ...


 
Yes, well when I said squirmy, I did not mean that in the literal sense either but rather squirmy attention spans on par to how I thought you meant it. My comment was that the actual knowledge intake from HS was retained better (making test taking easier) due to the attention given to learning styles and the pace of learning rather then just good test taking skills as you have mentioned. 

I think we just talked past each other on the description of what we were saying.


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## Mindaboo (Jan 14, 2010)

> Mindy, one other thing (I'm not done bragging yet!): We've taken some flak from some family members for homeschooling, one of whom is a CS teacher. The same daughter who tested so high in Language Arts wrote a piece on why she loved adoption for our church newsletter a month or two ago - it was passed up the line and will soon be printed in Christian Renewal, as I understand it! (Beaming with pride right now - she's now 12 and it is very exciting for her.) But the point is that this family member called the other day and said that she really enjoyed the article and said that it spoke very highly of my wife's teaching abilities. I was gobsmacked and thankful that this was being recognized. While I know it shouldn't make a big difference, it was a huge encouragement to my wife, because the source of the compliment has always been rather down on homeschooling.



That is very cool!! Please tell her congratulations! I would love to read her article if you can post it or send it email, snail mail or whatever. 

I have an aunt and uncle who have grilled the kids when they came to visit, because they were opposed to my homeschooling. They were looking for reasons to tell me why I shouldn't. They still do on some level. My uncle picked up my son's math books and said, "This isn't math." Oh well. They have really changed though. They have seen the test scores and see that my kids are different and they have come to appreciate the fact that I put so much into my kids. It is a great testimony.

I do think homeschooling is a personal choice and that each parent is obligated to search out the best schooling option for their kids. This is my 12th year homeschooling and I just can't imagine not doing it. I do enjoy what we do and I am learning a lot along with the kids. Some days are very hard, but the kids grow so fast and it will be gone before I know it. I did think it would be easier than it is.


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## calgal (Jan 14, 2010)

kvanlaan said:


> > No one, not even my unbelieving family questions me anymore about my capability. It really is an act of the Lord. Kevin, your wife is incredible and I have a lot of respect and admiration for her. By the way, I love you signature. She must truly be an angelic woman to homeschool tne kids.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Kevin that makes sense then. I also understand the reason why you HS families fiercely defend your choice now and I appreciate the explanation.


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## Montanablue (Jan 15, 2010)

a mere housewife said:


> Kevin, I certainly appreciate that point of view -- godliness is more important than academics (though my own point re: eduation itself is that in general scholarly people throughout history like Augustine and C. S. Lewis etc. were already learning in 'grammar' school far more than their parents could have taught them: which was not a negligible aspect of their being able to go on so brilliantly from there). However -- I find this very hard to put into words -- having been homeschooled myself, I cannot think of it as a promised land. Almost universally I have seen that where the parents desired to be 'the biggest influence in their childrens' lives' they got their wish -- and their children escaped none of the sinfulness of unideal situations, because their parents were also sinners. The parents' faults have borne so heavily (lack of discipline, unselfishness, uncharity, anger, even in cases sexual perversion), magnified by the intensity of insulation, that the lives of homeschooled children I grew up with are by a large, if not a shambles -- very deeply scarred by sin. The teenagers turned to alcohol, drugs, sex, etc., as regularly as those I grew up with who were put in Christian schools, and more regularly than those whose parents put them in a public school. Please do not mistake me for saying that my experience is the norm. But having had it, I cannot believe that homeschooling makes it possible to keep one's children from damaging influences. _ I_ am a damaging influence -- so are you, dear reader, whoever you are. I am terrified at the thought of being the biggest influence in my childrens' lives. May God give me grace not to default in any area of responsibility, but may He send many men and women to override my failings being merely repeated with a more vicious tendency in them.
> 
> In my experience, having a good relationship with one's parents, esp. through teenage years, was far more important than how a child was educated. And in my experience, homeschooling did not generally promote such a relationship. Again, this has only been one person's experience -- and it was my experience growing up: my friends who homeschool give me a much more positive appreciation for it all. But I hope it explains my lack of idealistic fervour -- though I am not antagonistic (hopefully obviously, as I've done this myself and would hope to do it again), and honor very much the sacrifices involved.
> 
> [edit: I am hesitant about the language of *aiming* to cultivate missionaries by education rather than some other calling etc -- surely it is God who calls and cultivates his missionaries? --If I've misunderstood, could you clarify that? thanks ]



Heidi, I also saw this in the lives of many of my friends. To a certain extent, it was an issue we had in my family. I think it can be easy for us to forget that parents are not necessarily a perfect influence - or even a good influence. I don't think this is necessarily a reason NOT to homeschool - especially if you're aware of the tendency. But I think we certainly ought to be aware of this danger. Homeschooling is not a cure all and it worries me when people treat it as such.

Edit: Jessica, I just wanted to say that I'll be praying for you and your family. I know you've had a stressful past few months. I really respect you for trying to make the best educational decision for your family, even if its not the "popular" one. If you pray and seek God's will for your family, I do believe he will be faithful to you. And I know many many delightful individuals, very strong in their faith and very well educated who went to public schools. Its not a death sentence by any means!


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## Reepicheep (Jan 15, 2010)

I'm sure there's something more nauseating than a debate about private Christian School vs Home Schooling...I'm just not sure what it is.

Suffice to say there are multiple ways Deut. 6 can be fulfilled by Christian parents and the wider body of Christ (the Church) working in healthy relationship to one another to carry out the discipleship of covenant children. To practice "Christian Ed Snobbery" from any angle is so lame. Newsflash: both approaches can be super effective and super deficient. Discipleship isn't like programming a computer, it's tough, often inexact stuff differing child to child.

I can give you anecdotal "evidence" of all sorts of things that can make one look superior to the other. In the end, are our children learning to view the world through the lenses of King Jesus and His sovereign rule over all things? Both can and do work well to encourage such a worldview. It's not cut and dry. One is not more biblical than the other. I praise God for the options.


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## nasa30 (Jan 15, 2010)

> I'm sure there's something more nauseating than a debate about private Christian School vs Home Schooling...I'm just not sure what it is.


 The great thing about the PB is there are a whole host of other threads that should suit your stomach better. No need to give yourself indigestion by jumping in page 3 and posting in this one.


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## Reepicheep (Jan 15, 2010)

nasa30 said:


> > I'm sure there's something more nauseating than a debate about private Christian School vs Home Schooling...I'm just not sure what it is.
> 
> 
> The great thing about the PB is there are a whole host of other threads that should suit your stomach better. No need to give yourself indigestion by jumping in page 3 and posting in this one.


 
Thanks for the advice 

I didn't "jump in" on page 3. I've been reading since the beginning. In fact, I was the 19th to comment. 

I don't mean to say the debate isn't worthy, it's the attending snobbery that often comes out in the debate when one perspective claims some kind of superiority over the other. 

Another great thing about PB is there is room for all of us to weigh in without having others tell us to get lost, right? There certainly is no shortage of opinions manifested here, so I didn't think adding another was somehow out of place. 

I'll drop off at this point.


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## py3ak (Jan 15, 2010)

It's an amazing thing how a thread can recover from posts of occasionally unpleasant tone as long as everyone ignores it and tries not to respond in kind.


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