# For those possibly, remotely, maybe interested in the army chaplaincy



## SolaScriptura (Sep 30, 2008)

I’ve had a handful of people on this site contact me with questions about the army chaplaincy. Presently one of our board’s members is waiting on an accession board to come on active duty.

In my current position I have a lot more visibility with higher echelons than most Captain chaplains. Unlike most Captains, I don’t work for a Major… I work for a Colonel. And I’m “peers” with a bunch of Lieutenant Colonels. It is a strange thing indeed to sit at a table with men who are not only 2 or 3 pay grades above me, but all of them have kids my age. 

But I’ve learned a few things from being in such seasoned company.

What I want to pass on in this post is what I would have done if I knew then what I know now…

If I could do it all over again, I would have taken the tuition assistance, owing the Reserves 4 years. But they would have paid for my schooling. I still would have done the chaplain candidate program (I earned approx $25k per year as a seminary student working between semesters). Upon graduation I would have become a Reserve chaplain, taking the $10k sign on bonus. At that point I would have taken advantage of the critically short supply of Reserve chaplains to essentially write my own ticket: I’d have requested mobilization to a location virtually anywhere in the country (or Germany!) and I’d be making what I make now, doing what I do now, PLUS… I’d have been making per diem the entire time. The per diem rate for mobilized reservists is in some cases almost 3x more per month than the extra pays being received by soldiers deployed in harms way. 

For example, the Reserve chaplains I know here at Bragg have been making almost 30k per year in tax free per diem, on top of their salaries (which are identical to mine). And they do the same thing as me. And they get the same benefits as me.

Plus, it is uber easy to slide from the reserves to active duty, so when this war finally ends and the pot of money disappears it would be no problem at all to come on active duty status for retirement purposes. 

So, the sum is: I’d have had my tuition paid for, I’d still have made a good paycheck in the candidate program, I’d have received a 10k bonus, I’d have been able to be mobilized to virtually any location in the US, I’d have been making my full-time salary, I’d be making a killing in tax free per diem (how about a new truck, anyone?), and I’d be doing precisely the same thing as I’m doing now. 

So – if you’re looking for a way to do something for your country, minister to folks, stay stateside, and provide well for your family… all at the same time… perhaps you should think about it…


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## LawrenceU (Sep 30, 2008)

Great information, Ben. If I weren't too old I'd be looking seriously at it right now.


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## Ivan (Sep 30, 2008)

I would consider it too. but like Lawrence I'm too old.


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## Blueridge Believer (Sep 30, 2008)

Ivan said:


> I would consider it too. but like Lawrence I'm too old.



Ivan, you look a lot like that Piper dude.


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## Ivan (Sep 30, 2008)

Blueridge Believer said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> > I would consider it too. but like Lawrence I'm too old.
> ...



Yeah, I shaved and got a haircut.

Naw, just using that avatar in honor of some threads.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 30, 2008)

BTW - 

For those who have questions, please feel free to either PM or email me.


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## Whitefield (Sep 30, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> I’ve had a handful of people on this site contact me with questions about the army chaplaincy. Presently one of our board’s members is waiting on an accession board to come on active duty.
> 
> In my current position I have a lot more visibility with higher echelons than most Captain chaplains. Unlike most Captains, I don’t work for a Major… I work for a Colonel. And I’m “peers” with a bunch of Lieutenant Colonels. It is a strange thing indeed to sit at a table with men who are not only 2 or 3 pay grades above me, but all of them have kids my age.
> 
> ...



I will apologize up front because I do not intend this to be a criticism, rather a different motivation to become a military chaplain. I was a reserve chaplain, an active duty Army chaplain for 3 years and a National Guard chaplain for 5 years in the 80's. I was prior-service enlisted in the early 70's. 

Now my comment. I was not a chaplain for the $$. It was for love of country and a desire to bring the Word of God to men and women in the military. And I would humbly add: if you are considering becoming a chaplain for the $$, then stay home. You will be of little benefit to the young men and women in the military who earn little money and are sacrificing for the nation. Your proper place is with the privates and sergeants, not with the LTC's and above.


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## Pergamum (Sep 30, 2008)

We need good chaplains. 

90% of the ones I met were worthless, PC, yes-men (and women) who were career army people more than they were men of God. 


I am glad there are some good men on this board who can make a difference.


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## matt01 (Sep 30, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> We need good chaplains.
> 
> 90% of the ones I met were worthless, PC, yes-men (and women) who were career army people more than they were men of God.



Thanks for the post, Sola...I dealt with some horrible chaplains during my time in the Marines, sort of like the "chaplain" in that _ER_ clip that is floating around. We need chaplains who aren't afraid to preach Christ.


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 30, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Unlike most Captains, I don’t work for a Major… I work for a Colonel. And I’m “peers” with a bunch of Lieutenant Colonels. It is a strange thing indeed to sit at a table with men who are not only 2 or 3 pay grades above me, but all of them have kids my age.


I've heard Lieutenant Colonels are a bunch of jerks!


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 30, 2008)

By the way, if we get more Chaplains around here, I wonder if having a Chaplains forum would be a good idea.


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## LawrenceU (Sep 30, 2008)

Rich you wouldn't be 0-6 would you?


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 30, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> By the way, if we get more Chaplains around here, I wonder if having a Chaplains forum would be a good idea.



I like the idea, but I'm not sure that we'll ever have more than two or three chaplains on the PB...


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## jd.morrison (Sep 30, 2008)

I have considered going into the service for that. Thanks for the information! One of the sticking points with me was the idea of being unarmed in a war zone...


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 30, 2008)

LawrenceU said:


> Rich you wouldn't be 0-6 would you?



No, I'm an O-5.


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 30, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, if we get more Chaplains around here, I wonder if having a Chaplains forum would be a good idea.
> ...



It's possible, although if word got out we had a Reformed resource then it might attract some. I know there are more than 2-3 out there. I guess we'll see what demand is like.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 30, 2008)

Whitefield said:


> Now my comment. I was not a chaplain for the $$. It was for love of country and a desire to bring the Word of God to men and women in the military. And I would humbly add: if you are considering becoming a chaplain for the $$, then stay home. You will be of little benefit to the young men and women in the military who earn little money and are sacrificing for the nation.



I have to agree! Don't do the chaplaincy "for the money." I wasn't advocating that people come into the chaplaincy to get rich. BUT... (and this is why this thread was addressed to those considering this vocation)... IF you're going to do the same job regardless of the little extras, it isn't "bad" to choose the route that affords a little extra flexibility and "control" and, yes, money. Or, put another way, one isn't being more honorable to go the rougher route just because it is the rougher route. Again, and this must be reiterated, the reserve chaplains I'm referring to are doing literally the same work as active duty chaplains. 



> Your proper place is with the privates and sergeants, not with the LTC's and above.



My place at the table with senior officers come from my position, which requires attendance at certain meetings and such... my place with these senior guys does not come from me trying to avoid the lower ranking folks.

That said, I maintain (as my peer chaplains tell me) a ridiculously high optempo. I have over 1700 people I'm directly responsible for. I visit work areas (hanging out with the privates and sergeants, etc...) at least 2 hours a day. Then I do counseling sessions - some command dictated, others because Soldiers (or their family members) want help. Then I do prayer luncheons, studies, services, retreats, morning pt, special chaplain runs, etc... I'm literally available 24-7. Even at home I take 1 or 2 phone calls from Soldiers (my personal cell is available to literally everyone) every night. _Every_ night. 

But, philosophically, I disagree with your apparent notion that the lower ranking folks "need" me more than the senior folks, or that my "duty" is more to the lower ranking folks than to the senior folks. 

No... I learned a long time ago that privates will be privates and I can either run around putting out fires continually with folks who have continual problems or issues... OR I can focus on the leadership and have a "trickle down" effect. I've noticed that in the army's headlong rush to "take care of Soldiers" the junior folks are taken care of, but it is just assumed that leaders are being cared for, and in reality they are slipping through the cracks. And in an environment like the military, command climate is a significant contributor to the wellbeing of the juniors. Thus, I have a formal counseling relationship with HALF of my company commanders, I meet with almost as many First Sergeants, I have special "leaders" events... in all, I'd say I spend about 60% of my time on squad leader and above. And, in the most successful instances, my approach has literally changed the atmosphere in companies, which results in a more caring, responsive command which further results in fewer Soldier issues. So I do a lot for the little guy, but I realize that the best thing I can do for the group is to make sure that the leadership is taken care of. Endearing myself to the First Sergeants has paid dividends in regards to support for my programs... 

Anyway, every chaplain has their way of doing things. Mine works remarkably well for me, I can produce quantifiable results to support my methodology, which, or course, the Command appreciates. 

Let every chaplain - and every pastor! - decide how best to carry out their calling so as to maximize the effect of their limited time and energy.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 30, 2008)

jd.morrison said:


> I have considered going into the service for that. Thanks for the information! One of the sticking points with me was the idea of being unarmed in a war zone...



Going into the combat zone unarmed is a rush. 

But you're not really unarmed... you've got one dude whose sole purpose in life is to protect yours... and furthermore, NO ONE is going to let their chaplain bite it... so in reality you've got a whole squad or platoon protecting you. Seriously... there were times when I thought to myself, "this must be how the President feels." 

Beyond that, your willingness (or not...) to step outside the wire - everyone knows you're unarmed - speaks volumes to the Soldiers (and Marines... I went out with them as well... by far, Marines treat their chaplain like he's a special guest of honor. It was a privilege to go out with them). A chaplain who willingly goes out gains a lot of credibility when talking about God's sovereignty. On the other hand, chaplains who have to be ordered out and then go kicking and screaming really do a lot of damage.

Anyway, we haven't had a chaplain killed in combat since Vietnam. So don't let that scare you.


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## LawrenceU (Sep 30, 2008)

> No, I'm an O-5.


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 30, 2008)

Semper Fidelis said:


> ... if word got out we had a Reformed resource then it might attract some. I know there are more than 2-3 out there...



I'm sure that's true. Well, let me rephrase: I'm pretty sure that it's true.

Unfortunately, the majority of the PCA chaplain's I've encountered are basically baby-baptizing evangelicals. And even the ones I know who I'd say are "essentially Reformed" don't exactly strike me as the "PB type."

But! 

Let's hope! There's always room for hope!


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## Whitefield (Oct 1, 2008)

Again, my intention was not to criticize or offend ... I was trying to add more "paint" to the picture of chaplaincy you were painting. I wanted to warn that $$ was not the primary motivation ($$ was the greater part of your post) and that senior personnel was not where the majority of ministry occurred (the enlisted were, for me, painfully missing in your post).


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 1, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Semper Fidelis said:
> 
> 
> > ... if word got out we had a Reformed resource then it might attract some. I know there are more than 2-3 out there...
> ...



Unfortunately my experience of many PCA Chaplains has been the same but they're a far cry better than the "God-blaspheming" liberals and Pentecostals that pray at formations.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Oct 1, 2008)

Thanks for the info, Ben.

Lance, I think part of Ben's focus on $ is that there are some here at PB who have gone deeply into debt to pay for their seminary education, and this cripples one's freedom to serve and relax in ministry.

Chaplaincy certainly is an option to counter that.

Certain folks, as myself, are just too old to to benefit from this, but some younger ones are considering ministry, and this is a great opportunity.

Reading Owen and Wm. Perkins lately, however, I see that being a true minister of the Word is perhaps the most arduous and difficult -- as well the most rewarding -- job in the world.

Steve


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## Reformed Baptist (Oct 1, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> jd.morrison said:
> 
> 
> > I have considered going into the service for that. Thanks for the information! One of the sticking points with me was the idea of being unarmed in a war zone...
> ...




My brother-in-law is a Navy man, trained with the Marines, and is currently in Iraq protecting the chaplain. I think this is a very honorable job. We are praying his notice to return home in October bears true. We all would like to see him at Christmas.


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## FrielWatcher (Oct 1, 2008)

Ben, 

When I went into the Navy nuclear power program many years ago, I took the bonus in lieu of the Navy college fund. I am in the same boat you are in because I got a whoppin' $3,500 after nuke power school and it vanished into thin air. If I would have taken the NCF, I would be getting about $2,500 a month from both the GI Bill and the NCF. 

But, I don't complain, just regret it and choose wiser next time. I mean, the gubmint has now paid for both my Engineering degree and now my Nursing degree with just the GI Bill. At the end of nsg school, I will have used ALL my GI Bill to the last penny. Not many people do that (I don't get a medal for it either, blast it!). I know A LOT of vets who never, ever touch their GI Bill which right now is valued at $46,800 over term!!! 

Anyway, I hope more Puritan-minds get into chaplaincy because, like Pergs, the ones I met really blow. Not very spiritual men or orthodox. God bless your ministry Ben. 

Peter


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## Stomata leontôn (Oct 1, 2008)

Is there an age limit?


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## Whitefield (Oct 1, 2008)

Peter H said:


> Is there an age limit?



Requirements can be found at GoArmy.com > Army Chaplain Corps > Requirements


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## BJClark (Oct 1, 2008)

SolaScriptura;



> Beyond that, your willingness (or not...) to step outside the wire - everyone knows you're unarmed - speaks volumes to the Soldiers (and Marines... I went out with them as well... by far, Marines treat their chaplain like he's a special guest of honor. It was a privilege to go out with them). A chaplain who willingly goes out gains a lot of credibility when talking about God's sovereignty. On the other hand, chaplains who have to be ordered out and then go kicking and screaming really do a lot of damage.



I can certainly believe this, how much respect would one get telling others to Trust God, when they themselves are not stepping out and trusting God to protect them?


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## matt01 (Nov 15, 2008)

FrielWatcher said:


> Anyway, I hope more Puritan-minds get into chaplaincy because, like Pergs, the ones I met really blow. Not very spiritual men or orthodox.



**bump**


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

In the chaplaincy, I'm guessing much like in the pastorate of a local church, you can't please everybody.

You've got the people who think that you should be giving a gospel invitation in every public venue and they write you off if you don't.

You've got the people who think that you should be a social worker and "helper-of-Soldiers" and they write you off if you aren't primarily a social-gospel proclamant.

You've got the people who think that you shouldn't drink or smoke or chew... and they'll write you off if you do. (Note: Within this class are many who think it is ok for them - "normal" people - to do these things, but they're supposedly off limits for a man of the cloth.)

You've got the people who will write you off as irrelevent if you don't drink, smoke, or chew.

You've got people who will write you off as being aloof if don't bring candy out to the field.

You've got people who will write you off as being gimmicky if you do.

I could go on and on and on. 

When you've got several hundred people from all sorts of religious backgrounds... you get just as many opinions of what you should be doing and how you should be doing it.

You've got to be confident in your own philosophy of ministry and understanding of what activities are appropriate and be prepared to engage those who disagree.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> jd.morrison said:
> 
> 
> > I have considered going into the service for that. Thanks for the information! One of the sticking points with me was the idea of being unarmed in a war zone...
> ...




That would be me.


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## matt01 (Nov 16, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> I still would have done the chaplain candidate program…



What do the chaplain candidates in the reserves do? I read somewhere that there are no duty requirements, so don't understand why that would be better than serving with the National Guard, where you are able to serve each month.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 16, 2008)

The candidate program is what you do while attending seminary. You cannot be a reserve or guard chaplain without the MDiv.


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## GTMOPC (Nov 16, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> You've got people who will write you off as being aloof if don't bring candy out to the field.
> 
> You've got people who will write you off as being gimmicky if you do.



When I was in the Army the Chaplain came out to the field and we were wishing he brought smokes instead of candy. And yes, we did think it was kind of gimmicky!!! Not to mention he never said anything about that Jesus fella!

Truthfully though a piece of candy meant a lot when we ate MRE's everyday and hoped we got M&M's or a Tootsie Roll in the MRE!! It did help moral in my opinion.

The Florida National Guard is hard up for Chaplains right now. There are 10 slots open I think I was told. So if you're in Florida it might be something to consider. I could get you contact info if you need it, just let me know.


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## yeutter (Nov 16, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> We need good chaplains.
> 
> 90% of the ones I met were worthless, PC, yes-men (and women) who were career army people more than they were men of God.
> 
> ...


My experience with Army Chaplains when I was active duty in the 70s was usually not positive. Every where I was stationed I attended Church services off base, even in Thailand. Army Chaplains in the reserves were also a mixed bag.
I am not sure I believe in the Chaplain program. Maybe we should find a way to send men out who are not formally part of the military. That is the approach the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Church takes. 
We need to not just pray for our service men but for those who minister to them.


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## matt01 (Nov 16, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> The candidate program is what you do while attending seminary. You cannot be a reserve or guard chaplain without the MDiv.



I understand that. There are differences in the candidate programs though, with the National Guard regularily participating in drills, versus the lack of regular drills in the reserves.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

Most of the guys I've encountered who go into the National Guard's candidate program do so because they're myopic. All they see is, "I can drill with the unit on a monthly basis... and that mean's I'll get to do real ministry!" 

That is ok (I guess) if you're planning on serving as a National Guard chaplain. However, if you're planning on going active duty, I highly encourage you to go into the Reserve's candidate program.

Here's why:

Access to training. NG candidates get to drill monthly and do 2-weeks in the summer. That's pretty much it. You're there for 2 days a month, while your Soldiers are there for the same 2 days. They have a lot to pack in and get done in those 2 days. Most of those people who would be inclinded to seek pastoral guidance do so... from their pastor. Don't expect to do much more than hanging out, er, "ministry of presence." Further, you have to adjust your schedule around those drill dates. In the Reserve's candidate program you get to come on orders whenever YOU want. (Usually, as a student, between semesters.) You go to work at an active duty installation, working with active duty soldiers. In short, you get to immerse yourself into the life and work of the people you serve. So experientially and financially, the opportunities in the Reserve side of the house are far greater. Plus, as a Reserve candidate you can do some pretty amazing things on the government's dime... want to go work in Hawaii during the winter break? No problem. Want to go visit Germany on the government's dime? No problem. Want to learn to jump out of a plane? No problem. I could go on.

The important thing to remember is that participation in one component's candidate program does not dictate which component you need to serve as a chaplain. You can do the National Guard candidate program and then become a reserve or active duty chaplain. You can do the Reserve candidate program and then become a national guard or active duty chaplain.


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## Whitefield (Nov 17, 2008)

For those trying to decide between National Guard or Reserve: I would give you a strong push towards the Reserves. The funding sources for military education are different between the two, and military schooling is critical to career progression. The Reserves will send you for training even if you are not in a TPU, whereas the National Guard will not. Hence it is easier to keep on your career track in the Reserves than it is in the NG. When I came off active duty, I got talked into going into the NG rather than the Reserves. (Stupid mistake on my part!) When the state NG chaplain dragged his feet in getting me assigned to a TPU, I had no funds to go Chaplain's Advanced.... and thus ended my career. If you have a choice, stay away from the NG system.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

Whitefield said:


> For those trying to decide between National Guard or Reserve: I would give you a strong push towards the Reserves. The funding sources for military education are different between the two, and military schooling is critical to career progression. The Reserves will send you for training even if you are not in a TPU, whereas the National Guard will not. Hence it is easier to keep on your career track in the Reserves than it is in the NG. When I came off active duty, I got talked into going into the NG rather than the Reserves. (Stupid mistake on my part!) When the state NG chaplain dragged his feet in getting me assigned to a TPU, I had no funds to go Chaplain's Advanced.... and thus ended my career. If you have a choice, stay away from the NG system.



I've heard this type of story from more than yourself. It seems to be a trend.

Really, the only reasons I can think of for joining the National Guard instead of the Reserves would be if you 1) Want to get mobilized to help with relief in the aftermath of a natural disaster, of 2) If you're really really really proud of, loyal to, and committed to, a particular State... to the point that you want to salute the governor of that state. 

Beyond that, I can't think of a single benefit that the Guard has going for it. Only downsides. The Reserves are much better.


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## Whitefield (Nov 17, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Whitefield said:
> 
> 
> > For those trying to decide between National Guard or Reserve: I would give you a strong push towards the Reserves. The funding sources for military education are different between the two, and military schooling is critical to career progression. The Reserves will send you for training even if you are not in a TPU, whereas the National Guard will not. Hence it is easier to keep on your career track in the Reserves than it is in the NG. When I came off active duty, I got talked into going into the NG rather than the Reserves. (Stupid mistake on my part!) When the state NG chaplain dragged his feet in getting me assigned to a TPU, I had no funds to go Chaplain's Advanced.... and thus ended my career. If you have a choice, stay away from the NG system.
> ...



Well, why didn't you tell me that in 1988?????


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

Whitefield said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > Whitefield said:
> ...



Please pardon my lack of ability to travel back in time to tell you in 1988.


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