# Worship: Children's/Junior Church?



## cwjudyjr (Nov 16, 2008)

We have children from 0-3 in nursery during the second half of the worship service. Childen from 4-up stay in for the entire service.

Some are asking for a Children's service that paralells the worship service from just prior to the sermon to the end of the service.

What do your churches do in worship? what is the biblical basis for those decisions?

Thanks!

Conrad


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## Pilgrim (Nov 16, 2008)

My guess is that when family worship declines, appeals for children's church etc. rise. 

Some who were from unchurched backgrounds and others who may have been saved in the context of some kind of youth program also will tend to want them. Then you have the ones who think you have to have it simply because that is what everyone else is doing.


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## cwjudyjr (Nov 16, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> My guess is that when family worship declines, appeals for children's church etc. rise.
> 
> Some who were from unchurched backgrounds and others who may have been saved in the context of some kind of youth program also will tend to want them. Then you have the ones who think you have to have it simply because that is what everyone else is doing.



We have a small and new church. The concerns are raised by those who a newer to the faith, and new to the reformed faith. The families need assistance in this area. we will not capitulate to lower expectations yet need to meet people where they are to help them grow. This is what we are looking for, an approach to bringingthese families along.


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## Wannabee (Nov 16, 2008)

This can be challenging. I would think a catechism would be helpful, in order to help the parents structure the instruction of their children. Some sort of Bible survey would be as well. Chances are, the parents will learn a great deal too. 
If your vision is for integrated worship, I'd simply share the vision with them and ask them to embrace it and be a part of it. Much of this involves giving up our myopia and realizing that we are part of a much bigger picture and mere stepping stones for the next generation. What can we do to help strengthen them for what lies ahead and provide every benefit that we can conceive of? This multi-generational approach encourages each successive generation to stand on the shoulders of those who went before them. Programs can help, but they tend to lower the bar unless there is clear biblical mandate behind them. There is none for age segregated worship.
We've lost two families because we would not institute a program specifically for their children. They shopped around and found a church that has big children's programs. We can't compete, and have no desire to. Whatever you win them to you'll have to keep them with. Win them to Christ.


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## staythecourse (Nov 16, 2008)

There is no biblical references in the NT regarding SS and we infer from the OT that the family should be listening to the word together. Ezra reading to the whole group of people "able to hear" (sure 4 years old will work) would be one citation.

We have a SS based on ages but the family sits together in corporate worship from youngins on up.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 16, 2008)

What I have seen that works real well is after the worship service, the small children come to the front of the church and have a mini sermon from the pastor that is geared directly towards them. Nothing overly long just five or ten minutes. This has helped appease the "let's have a children's church like such and such megachurch down the street" but it also keeps the family environment of the service.


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## staythecourse (Nov 17, 2008)

> 1 And all the people gathered as one man at the square which was in front of the Water Gate, and they asked Ezra the scribe to bring the book of the law of Moses which the LORD had given to Israel. 2 Then Ezra the priest brought the law before the assembly of men, women and all who could listen with understanding, on the first day of the seventh month. 3 He read from it before the square which was in front of the Water Gate from early morning until midday, in the presence of men and women, those who could understand; and all the people were attentive to the book of the law. 4 Ezra the scribe stood at a wooden podium which they had made for the purpose. And beside him stood Mattithiah, Shema, Anaiah, Uriah, Hilkiah, and Maaseiah on his right hand; and Pedaiah, Mishael, Malchijah, Hashum, Hashbaddanah, Zechariah and Meshullam on his left hand. 5 Ezra opened the book in the sight of all the people for he was standing above all the people; and when he opened it, all the people stood up. 6 Then Ezra blessed the LORD the great God. And all the people answered, “Amen, Amen!” while lifting up their hands; then they bowed low and worshiped the LORD with their faces to the ground. 7 Also Jeshua, Bani, Sherebiah, Jamin, Akkub, Shabbethai, Hodiah, Maaseiah, Kelita, Azariah, Jozabad, Hanan, Pelaiah, the Levites, explained the law to the people while the people remained in their place. 8 They read from the book, from the law of God, translating to give the sense so that they understood the reading.
> 
> “This Day Is Holy”
> 
> 9 Then Nehemiah, who was the governor, and Ezra the priest and scribe, and the Levites who taught the people said to all the people, “This day is holy to the LORD your God; do not mourn or weep.” For all the people were weeping when they heard the words of the law. 10 Then he said to them, “Go, eat of the fat, drink of the sweet, and send portions to him who has nothing prepared; for this day is holy to our Lord. Do not be grieved, for the joy of the LORD is your strength.” 11 So the Levites calmed all the people, saying, “Be still, for the day is holy; do not be grieved.” 12 All the people went away to eat, to drink, to send portions and to celebrate a great festival, because they understood the words which had been made known to them.



This is what one of our elders uses to explain to people (visitors often) why we read a chapter of the OT and a chapter of the NT as well as why we keep te whole family together who is able to hear, and that age is left up to the parents to decide - but, it's young and 4 is probably the norm.


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## cwjudyjr (Nov 17, 2008)

*Thanks!*

Thank you all for your input. In other, less essential areas we have tried to appease. Ie: start time for services. Each time we have the person(s) the change was done to accommodate for, eventually left. Appeasement in church is not good. It is ungodly in essentials. We are looking for ways to help new attenders/members. Thank you again for your time and responses!

God Bless,

Conrad


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## Manuel (Nov 17, 2008)

I think kids need to learn to behave since a very young age. My kids have been sitting with me at the service since they were 4 or 5. Sometimes I had to go outside for some spanking  but they learned pretty fast. new parents have to learn that we are not a megachurch and don't do things in a megachurch way, and teaching discipline to their kids is one of those things that they need to start doing as reformed believers.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 17, 2008)

Manuel said:


> I think kids need to learn to behave since a very young age. My kids have been sitting with me at the service since they were 4 or 5. Sometimes I had to go outside for some spanking  but they learned pretty fast. new parents have to learn that we are not a megachurch and don't do things in a megachurch way, and teaching discipline to their kids is one of those things that they need to start doing as reformed believers.



Reformed or not, parents need to teach discipline to their kids.


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## Tim (Nov 17, 2008)

My home church has a sound-proof area for the youngest children, if needed. But we don't call it a "cry room", we call it a "training room". Here, the children are trained to sit with their parent(s) during the corporate worship service. 

I also know for a fact that a 2-year old can attend to the sermon and answer age-appropriate questions on that sermon. 

So, parents just need to be encouraged to foster these things with their children.


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## he beholds (Nov 17, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> What I have seen that works real well is after the worship service, the small children come to the front of the church and have a mini sermon from the pastor that is geared directly towards them. Nothing overly long just five or ten minutes. This has helped appease the "let's have a children's church like such and such megachurch down the street" but it also keeps the family environment of the service.



My church does this during the worship service. Following the OT reading, the children go to the front of the church and sit around our pastor while he gives them a child-friendly preview of the sermon, with questions for them to think about while listening. As a _teacher_, I can see a value in this concept, b/c I think it is good to set the lesson in such a way as to show what the hearer should be listening for. However, as _parents_, we don't agree with this. We (especially my husband--I'm more on the fence, but he is the head) do not allow our children to go up, b/c we don't think even this is biblical or a necessary part of worship. As I said, I like the idea of him using an anticipatory set, but I guess we feel uncomfortable with it being addressed to the children (that's what it's called, "Children’s Address," so there's no way to say it's for the whole church) and to have the children leave their families for their own "special" message. The whole sermon should be addressed to the children! There are probably two other families who don't send their children up, and no one minds.




cwjudyjr said:


> Thank you all for your input. In other, less essential areas we have tried to appease. Ie: start time for services. Each time we have the person(s) the change was done to accommodate for, eventually left. Appeasement in church is not good. It is ungodly in essentials. We are looking for ways to help new attenders/members. Thank you again for your time and responses!
> 
> God Bless,
> 
> Conrad



This is what I was thinking last night when I read your OP. I bet that the people who want a children's service will end up wanting even more distraction eventually. As growing up un-churched, and only learning of God through youth groups, I was freaked out when I first went to an RPCNA church. The prayers were long, the singing impossible, the people elderly, and the sermon intelligent! Where was I??
Even so, I continued going to this church because of the professor at my college who had invited me to this church. She took the time to teach me _why_ this church was this way. For a long time I still would have preferred a more modern service, but through teaching I at least _accepted_ the solemnness of this first reformed church that I attended. So my advice would be to help these families understand why you do the things the way you do them! For example, our church offers wine in the cup, and our bulletin has a tiny blurb that explains how there is wine b/c that's what we think Jesus used, but the outer ring of the tray holds cups of juice, for matters of health or conscience. I think this may not only help people's conscience be freer (on either side of the issue), but explains why we do it!

My husband growing up went to a completely separate church service (junior church--not at a reformed church) until he was twelve years old! 
Flash forward to today, and we have had the example of good reformed churches to lead us in our thinking! When we moved and had to find a church, we went to another PCA church in our area that looked like it would've been great--lots of young families and young couples (potential for friendships since we were all alone in a new state), but a very casual service with a small band, and we couldn't do it! I remember talking about it after the service we attended: "Could we just go here for a couple of months, make friends, and then find a more solid church?" But we knew we couldn't do that. We knew what we'd be compromising...

Also, we have two children (aged two and one) and they both sit with us in worship. We have to train them at home during family worship to sit quiet, and I am up and down a lot with our one y/o in church, but we think it is worth it to train them now. I don't believe that we can tell just exactly when our children can understand what they are hearing, and when they can be blessed by the hearing of the word, so I don't want to risk them missing out until they are four y/o. 
Our church is split on this, but the congregation is pretty supportive of us parents rushing crying babies out of the church.


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## Manuel (Nov 19, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Reformed or not, parents need to teach discipline to their kids.


You are right on the money, but you know that most churches don't put the same emphasis on this than we do. I remember when I first came to the USA in 2001 and I was looking for a church, in most churches that I visited they were amazed that my son could sit still and quiet through the service, because they all had their little kiddie church were their kids went to play with playdoh or make crafts or listen to dumb stories. He was 6 back then.


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