# Guy Fawkes Day?



## Marrow Man (Apr 13, 2009)

The abysmal movie "V for Vendetta" is on this morning. The "hero" of the movie is a terrorist who wears a Guy Fawkes mask. This leads me to ask about the British fascination with Guy Fawkes. In a word, why? He appears to have been nothing but a terrorist who wanted to bring Romish oppression back to Britain. Why is this man treated as a hero in England?


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## Montanablue (Apr 13, 2009)

I was confused about this too - until I lived in Britain for six months! Guy Fawkes is actually _not _ treated as a hero in Britain. Guy Fawkes Day commemorates his capture and celebrates the fact that he was unsuccessful in blowing up Parliament. It used to be that children would make effigies of Guy Fawkes and drag him through the street, then they would burn him. (I did not see this happen when I was there, lol)/ Now, people get together and have bonfires and see fireworks.

Edit: Its also interesting to note that Guy Fawkes Day used to be a time when random acts of vandalism were carried out against Catholics. I had a friend who told me that when her grandparents were children (This would have been early 1900s I suppose), they stayed home from school on 11/5 because Catholic children were often harassed by boisterous children celebrating Guy Fawkes day.


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## PresbyDane (Apr 13, 2009)

very morbid celebration is it not?


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## Marrow Man (Apr 13, 2009)

Thanks, Kathleen -- now makes a whole lot more sense to me now!

In the movie, btw, his memory is glorified, especially since his "vision" is realized, in a way.


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## PresbyDane (Apr 13, 2009)

Typical Post-modern anarki style movie 

The stupid thing is I learn rims quickly so I still remember the rime from the movie I think

"Remember, remeber the fith of November
The gunpowder treason and plot
I know of no reason, the gunpowder treason should ever be forgot"

There is another kind of powder for you Marrowman, I hope you do not use that on the wig


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## Montanablue (Apr 13, 2009)

Marrow Man said:


> Thanks, Kathleen -- now makes a whole lot more sense to me now!
> 
> In the movie, btw, his memory is glorified, especially since his "vision" is realized, in a way.



I have never seen this movie - I had planned to rent it when it first came out, but several of my friends told me that I would "hate it" and begged me not to see it so they wouldn't have to hear me rant about it.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 13, 2009)

It was on TV this morning for "free." Otherwise, I wouldn't have wasted my time. Actually, I was on the internet so I was "multi-tasking" -- just keeping an occasion eye on the film. It was pretty much worthless. Save your money and/or your time.


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## smhbbag (Apr 13, 2009)

I'll be a voice of dissent here, and say that I love this movie. 

The main character, of course, imputes fictional motives to the historical Guy Fawkes (suggesting he sought liberty and equality under the law when in reality he only wanted different tyrants).

V is far less offensive than the man he supposedly emulates. Yes, it is easy to castigate the film-makers for throwing in their pitches for accepting homosexuality and false religions as fine, diverse parts of culture. And it's right to nail them for that.

But, at the end of the day, this world would be much better off if there were a few more V's around.


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## Theoretical (Apr 13, 2009)

smhbbag said:


> I'll be a voice of dissent here, and say that I love this movie.
> 
> The main character, of course, imputes fictional motives to the historical Guy Fawkes (suggesting he sought liberty and equality under the law when in reality he only wanted different tyrants).
> 
> ...




And, I would also note that the film does a good job of portraying how a lot of people on the outside see the "Religious Right", especially the branches of it that are more vitriolic, shrill, and paranoid.

I see the anti-Christian aspects of this movie in the same way I see SAVED!, in its depiction of evangelical colleges. Even a bad critique can be helpful to us to see how the world sees us, accurate or not.


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## Archlute (Apr 13, 2009)

Re4mdant said:


> Typical Post-modern anarki style movie
> 
> The stupid thing is I learn rims quickly so I still remember the rime from the movie I think
> 
> ...




Yeah, but you've got to admire the way he handles those blades! 

Could have cut the meaningless lesbian theme, however, and the movie would have been far the better for it.


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## smhbbag (Apr 13, 2009)

> And, I would also note that the film does a good job of portraying how a lot of people on the outside see the "Religious Right", especially the branches of it that are more vitriolic, shrill, and paranoid.
> 
> I see the anti-Christian aspects of this movie in the same way I see SAVED!, in its depiction of evangelical colleges. Even a bad critique can be helpful to us to see how the world sees us, accurate or not.



Good observation.

And it should be especially penetrating to us since a large portion of their rebuke is, in fact, based upon Christian ideas of law. They have it pretty mixed up because they have no framework to place it in, but in a lot of ways their approach is more Biblical than the Religious Right they hate.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 13, 2009)

Re4mdant said:


> Typical Post-modern anarki style movie
> 
> The stupid thing is I learn rimes quickly so I still remember the rime from the movie I think
> 
> ...



LOL, didn't see this post before. Good one, my friend! 

I respect that you guys liked the movie. It had a good cast, the acting was very good, the production quality was great. I just hated the story line and the thinly-veiled attack on "the right" (religious and political). Apparently pluralism and anarchy are better. Garbage message.

And that is trading one set of tyrants for another, as was observed above. So Guy Fawkes dream is realized, I guess.


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## py3ak (Apr 13, 2009)

I have been trying to persuade Heidi to make it our Valentine's Day tradition to watch that movie; we have no other Valentine's Day traditions, so you'd think it would be an easy sell, but the torture is rather stressful for her.

One criticism I haven't seen expressed is the way it glorifies a rather cheap piece of music - two actually.

It is not _Brave New World_ or _1984_ but I do think there is a danger of _rightist_ tyranny, and that we won't wind up liking that if it comes anymore than the leftist edition.


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## Hippo (Apr 13, 2009)

The popular poem for bonfire night reads:

Remember remember the fifth of November
Gunpowder, treason and plot.
I see no reason why gunpowder, treason
Should ever be forgot

In Lewes (on the South Coast of England) the tradition is that they also burn an effigy of the Pope, which not surprisingly is not looked apon favourably these days. 

I grew up near the village of Farnley in Yorkshire where the Fawkes family came from and it was traditional in that village never to celebrate bonfire night as it was a local man (with important connections to the local gentry) who's torture was being celebrated. 

Every bonfire of any note has a "Guy" on it.


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## smhbbag (Apr 13, 2009)

> I just hated the story line and the thinly-veiled attack on "the right" (religious and political). Apparently pluralism and anarchy are better. Garbage message.



I'm not quite sure why you bring up anarchy, as no part of the movie advocated it. 

Regarding the attack on the political and religious right - the characterizations of it are true, and are only wrong by a matter of degree, not substance.

V's dream (apparently) of a secular, tolerant society with a limited and responsible government is impossible. The movie's solution is wrong, but its diagnosis is pretty spot on.


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## Theoretical (Apr 13, 2009)

I'm intrigued by this statement: 



> And it should be especially penetrating to us since a large portion of their rebuke is, in fact, based upon Christian ideas of law. They have it pretty mixed up because they have no framework to place it in, but in a lot of ways their approach is more Biblical than the Religious Right they hate.


Could you expand on it a bit?

Oh, and there's one scene of anarchy where a guy robbing a store with a mask on says "Anarchy in the UK!".


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## Marrow Man (Apr 13, 2009)

smhbbag said:


> > I just hated the story line and the thinly-veiled attack on "the right" (religious and political). Apparently pluralism and anarchy are better. Garbage message.
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not quite sure why you bring up anarchy, as no part of the movie advocated it.



A vigilante metes out his own brand of "justice" (including the torture of the heroine) in order to bring down the government. This "hero" systematically kills everyone in the political establishment. The climax is the symbol of the government being blown to smithereens.


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## Theoretical (Apr 13, 2009)

The reason Jeremy said that the movie itself didn't advocate anarchism, symbolized by him giving Evie the right to blow up Parliament if _she_ desired to is that he was the ender of one government but would not be implementing that which succeeded it.

That makes him a violent revolutionary, which is still problematic, but not an anarchist.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 13, 2009)

Theoretical said:


> The reason Jeremy said that the movie itself didn't advocate anarchism, symbolized by him giving Evie the right to blow up Parliament if _she_ desired to is that he was the ender of one government but would not be implementing that which succeeded it.
> 
> That makes him a violent revolutionary, which is still problematic, but not an anarchist.



Ah. Thanks for the clarification. I would personally say that is a distinction without a difference, but I see your point.

I would also add that by the end of the movie, V "knows" what decision Evie will make. She had betrayed him earlier in the film, but he had reconditioned her afterward through deception and torture and knew she was "ready," so to speak.


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## Theoretical (Apr 13, 2009)

That is true too.


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## Montanablue (Apr 13, 2009)

Theoretical said:


> I'm intrigued by this statement:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ahhhh...the Sex Pistols... always relevant... 

I am now becoming intrigued by this movie and will probably need to watch it.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Apr 13, 2009)

Guy Fawkes is a celebration of a papist plot foiled.

I’m sorry the Ron Paul campaign last year latched on to Guy Fawkes Day as if it were positive resistance against tyranny.


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## Theoretical (Apr 14, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> Guy Fawkes is a celebration of a papist plot foiled.
> 
> I’m sorry the Ron Paul campaign last year latched on to Guy Fawkes Day as if it were positive resistance against tyranny.


No argument there.


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## turmeric (Apr 14, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> Guy Fawkes is a celebration of a papist plot foiled.
> 
> I’m sorry the Ron Paul campaign last year latched on to Guy Fawkes Day as if it were positive resistance against tyranny.


 
He wouldn't be the first candidate with a mistaken view of historial events.

Wow, if it had succeded, would the Brits be calling it 11/5, the way we talk about 9/11? Religious extremists trying to blow people up and destroy the government...


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## PresbyDane (Apr 14, 2009)

Marrow Man said:


> Re4mdant said:
> 
> 
> > Typical Post-modern anarki style movie
> ...



Well I did not really say that I liked the movie, to me it is just another plain meaningless action movie.
What I wanted to confess to the world is that that rime is stuck in my head, much like many modern pop songs, I do not know why I have received this curse of remembering bad lyrics, but sadly I have.
Do not get me started on Katie Perry songs


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## Parsifal23 (Apr 14, 2009)

I always found it odd that the torture of an catholic disident who tried to blow up parlment became an national holiday in England.


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## bradstreet (Apr 15, 2009)

I suggest viewing the videos posted on this blog concerning that movie. I can't vouch for this guy's theology and I haven't read much of his blog, but I think the video is an excellent analysis of what is behind this dark comic book Hollywood schlock. 

The Truth & The Light Ministries


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