# Farewell to PB.



## etexas (Apr 17, 2007)

I wish to say farewell to the PB I have learned much here. I think that on the basis of my theology that it would be for the best if I left and made a clean break. I have my flaws, a lot of them. There are some great people here on the board. Some have their flaws too! Overall the PB is a fantastic group of people. Pray for the rest of my Christian walk, and my PB friends shall remain in my heart and in my prayers. Grace and Peace.+


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## Theoretical (Apr 17, 2007)

joshua said:


> Do what you must, Max. We'd prefer you reconsider and stay. Nonetheless, Godspeed and grace to you, Brother.




We'll be sad to see you leave. Even if people have heated disagreements with you or you open cans of worms, know that the people on here care about each other (speaking as one who's opened my share of these discussions) and want their brethren to be edified in Christ.


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## Richard King (Apr 17, 2007)

I follow Jesus said:


> I wish to say farewell to the PB I have learned much here. I think that on the basis of my theology that it would be for the best if I left and made a clean break. I have my flaws, a lot of them. There are some great people here on the board. Some have their flaws too! Overall the PB is a fantastic group of people. Pray for the rest of my Christian walk, and my PB friends shall remain in my heart and in my prayers. Grace and Peace.+





Just take a break. 
You can always return.


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## Dagmire (Apr 17, 2007)

I hate to see people leave. :'(


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## kvanlaan (Apr 17, 2007)

Brother, we'll be sad to see you go. 

Do remember that there are other Anglicans on the board, there is no reason to leave because of your theology. If you need a break, take a break, but do come back. 

Your posts have brought a lot to the discussions. Peace be with you, brother.


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## Ivan (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry to hear this, Max. As others have said, take a break and come back. PM me when you want.


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## Bandguy (Apr 17, 2007)

Sorry to see you go. I am not sure what the problem is with your theology, but I wish you the best.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 17, 2007)

Max,

For what it's worth, you caused very little rancor here. It's always a bit controversial when we grant an exemption to an Anglican or Lutheran here given the Confessional requirements of the board. I believe you comported yourself with integrity and grace. I'm sorry to see you go.


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## Bandguy (Apr 17, 2007)

Please forgive my ignorance, but aren't Anglicans and Lutherans considered reformed in their theology. I mean, my goodness, Lutherans are named after one of the original reformers, right? Am I just totally missing it here being an ignorant Southern Baptist?


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 17, 2007)

Bandguy said:


> Am I just totally missing it here being an ignorant Southern Baptist?



Yes. 

There are different strains in the magisterial Reformation. Lutherans historically don't consider themselves Reformed. In fact, if you go to the Midwest, most Lutherans call just about every brand of charismatic "Reformed".


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## Bandguy (Apr 17, 2007)

Wasn't Martin Luther one of the original reformers? If so, how could they call themselves Lutherans when they are the exact opposite of him? I am really confused. That would be like calling yourself an Edwardian and denying that mankind is a bunch of sinners in the hands of an Angry God.


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## turmeric (Apr 17, 2007)

This is an interesting discussion, but what Rich is talking about is that members of _this_ board must subscribe to either the Westminster Confession or the London Baptist Confession - hence if Lutherans and Anglicans post here they must be granted an exception. I'm glad those are granted, For what it's worth, and will also miss Max.

Come back when you can, brother.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 18, 2007)

Stick around the board for a while and it'll make better sense to you. The problem you're having is that you likely view "Reformed" as equivalent to the Five Points of Calvinism. There is much more to what is historically Reformed than merely affirming those 5 points. On the score of the 5 points, Lutherans would even fail that point because they typically deny limited atonement.

It is more accurate to say we are Christians with differing Evangelical Confessions. Those Confessions have many points of intersection but there are many differences. Lutherans have the Belgic Confession. Baptists historically did not call themselves Reformed initially but Particular - they have the 2nd London Baptist Confession.

If you notice, the requirements for membership require a person to let us know what Confession they subscribe to. That is not by mistake. Many people identify themselves as "Reformed" but that's pretty easy to say. In fact, I get a kick out of how many applications I see where people say: "I am in the PCA and I subscribe to the WCF without exceptions...." I usually know that the person hasn't really read the WCF when they say that or they are one of the few Exclusive Psalmody people in the PCA.


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## bookslover (Apr 18, 2007)

turmeric said:


> This is an interesting discussion, but what Rich is talking about is that members of _this_ board must subscribe to either the Westminster Confession or the London Baptist Confession - hence if Lutherans and Anglicans post here they must be granted an exception. I'm glad those are granted, For what it's worth, and will also miss Max.
> 
> Come back when you can, brother.



Why not just abolish the rule, and allow Anglicans and Lutherans on the Board by virtue of the fact that they're Christians? I'd be much more interested in banning Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses (should any try to sneak onto the Board) than Lutherans or Anglicans.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 18, 2007)

bookslover said:


> Why not just abolish the rule, and allow Anglicans and Lutherans on the Board by virtue of the fact that they're Christians? I'd be much more interested in banning Mormons or Jehovah's Witnesses (should any try to sneak onto the Board) than Lutherans or Anglicans.



Read the Forum Rules. It explains why.


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## satz (Apr 18, 2007)

IF all members must subscribe to one of the reformed confessions, than given the amount of discussion and disagreement (even if it is gracious) on this forum, how many exceptions are people allowed to take to the confessions?

Edit: Max, I will be sorry to see you go. All the best and God bless.


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## Staphlobob (Apr 18, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> On the score of the 5 points, Lutherans would even fail that point because they typically deny limited atonement.



Lutherans would also deny irresistible grace and the perseverance of the saints. In fact, they hold only to the first two points: total depravity and unconditional salvation. 

Several months ago when I was still Lutheran myself, my congregation held an open forum wherein one of the more liberal (and supposedly theologically knowledgeable) members got up and castigated me for holding to the 5 points. The thing is, she wasn't so upset because I held to LIP, but because of the TU!! She was thoroughly shocked that anyone could believe and defend such ideas. Her response was: "My god is a god of love."  

Anyway, I too would be sorry to see him go. I'm deeply interested in Anglicanism and think we could learn a lot from him. There is a Conservative Anglican Board that I also belong to, but it's been pretty quiet recently. But I'd still like to see him here also.


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## Coram Deo (Apr 18, 2007)

What's the web link?



Staphlobob said:


> There is a Conservative Anglican Board that I also belong to, but it's been pretty quiet recently. But I'd still like to see him here also.


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## Me Died Blue (Apr 18, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> It is more accurate to say we are Christians with differing Evangelical Confessions. Those Confessions have many points of intersection but there are many differences. Lutherans have the Belgic Confession. Baptists historically did not call themselves Reformed initially but Particular - they have the 2nd London Baptist Confession.



Rich, I know you know this, but to prevent anyone else's confusion, the confessional Lutherans hold to the _Augsburg_ Confession (in addition to the other documents in the Book of Concord). The _Belgic_ Confession is confessed by most Continental Reformed churches (in addition to the Heidelberg Catechism and the Canons of Dort, making up the Three Forms of Unity).

And in fact, the Three Forms of Unity are one of the regular sets of confessional documents to which members here may subscribe, and the Second Helvetic Confession as well (in addition to the aforementioned Westminster Standards and the 1689 LBCF).


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## Staphlobob (Apr 18, 2007)

thunaer said:


> What's the web link?



It's: 
http://www.setbb.com/conservativeang/index.php?mforum=conservativeang

Kinda quiet recently. But still has some good discussions on occasion.


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## AV1611 (Apr 18, 2007)

It was set up because a number of us at Christian Forums who were (or are) conservative Anglicans sought to have a subforum specifically for us for the Anglican Forum there was full of liberals.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 18, 2007)

Me Died Blue said:


> Rich, I know you know this, but to prevent anyone else's confusion, the confessional Lutherans hold to the _Augsburg_ Confession (in addition to the other documents in the Book of Concord). The _Belgic_ Confession is confessed by most Continental Reformed churches (in addition to the Heidelberg Catechism and the Canons of Dort, making up the Three Forms of Unity).
> 
> And in fact, the Three Forms of Unity are one of the regular sets of confessional documents to which members here may subscribe, and the Second Helvetic Confession as well (in addition to the aforementioned Westminster Standards and the 1689 LBCF).



 Last night I was really having trouble focusing for some reason. I think I was really tired at the time. I was moving stuff in all day and then went back into work to change (around 2000) and had to type some stuff and read some stuff I wrote. It was all garbled. Thanks for correcting it.


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## toddpedlar (Apr 18, 2007)

Staphlobob said:


> She was thoroughly shocked that anyone could believe and defend such ideas. Her response was: "My god is a god of love."



And to that you replied... "yup, that's your god alright"

I bet "love" was pronounced "luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv", wasn't it? 

Seriously, though, I bet if you polled most of the ELCA (speaking as
one teaching at an ELCA college) you'd find that the vast majority
reject at least LIP, and throw in a "T is irrelevant, God is a god of grace" 
for good measure...

todd


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## Dagmire (Apr 18, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> Max,
> 
> For what it's worth, you caused very little rancor here.


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## etexas (May 22, 2007)

*Back in black.*

I took a break my friends. I needed it. I decided that my theology was not in conflict with the PB and it's members.....it is that sometimes I do not always state my position well..... and some (a very few members twist things.) We are all human and here we are all Christian. I am glad I took time to step back and reflect, sometimes we all need to examine ourselves. I am back. and glad to be here. Grace and Peace.


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## Blueridge Believer (May 22, 2007)

I follow Jesus said:


> I took a break my friends. I needed it. I decided that my theology was not in conflict with the PB and it's members.....it is that sometimes I do not always state my position well..... and some (a very few members twist things.) We are all human and here we are all Christian. I am glad I took time to step back and reflect, sometimes we all need to examine ourselves. I am back. and glad to be here. Grace and Peace.



Good to see you back my friend.


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## etexas (May 22, 2007)

Blueridge reformer said:


> Good to see you back my friend.


Thank you James! Glad to be back.


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## Davidius (May 22, 2007)

Welcome back!


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## AV1611 (May 22, 2007)

I follow Jesus said:


> I took a break my friends. I needed it. I decided that my theology was not in conflict with the PB and it's members.....it is that sometimes I do not always state my position well..... and some (a very few members twist things.) We are all human and here we are all Christian. I am glad I took time to step back and reflect, sometimes we all need to examine ourselves. I am back. and glad to be here. Grace and Peace.


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## MrMerlin777 (May 22, 2007)

Nice to see you around again my friend.

Drop me a PM sometime.

Grace to you.

Don.


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## VaughanRSmith (May 22, 2007)

Welcome back.


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## Ivan (May 22, 2007)

Welcome back, my friend!


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## bookslover (May 23, 2007)

joshua said:


> Welcome back, Max! (does your sig line work?)



Obviously, your avatar thingee is broken, Josh!


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## turmeric (May 23, 2007)

*Nag, Nag, Nag!*

Max, you gotta have a signature.

Any of the Mods' signatures have a link in them to the rules and procedures for creating a sig line. Glad to see you back!!


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## kvanlaan (May 23, 2007)

Wonderful to see you back, Max. Blessings, brother.


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