# Where's the discernment? The class praises Westerhoff and Foster...



## Damon Rambo (Nov 15, 2010)

O.K., I just have to post this. I am literally sitting here with tears in my eyes (I know; us reformed guys are supposed to be manly men. Sorry for disappointing!).

As many know, I am working on a degree at a non-reformed Baptist Seminary. One of the classes that is required for the degree, is a class called "Spiritual Formation." The required textbooks include a book by John Stott, "The Sermon on the Mount," which is not too bad, and three other books that are absolutely horrible; Dallas Willard's "Spirit of the Disciplines", "Celebration of Discipline" by Richard J. Foster, and "Spiritual Life" by Westerhoff. 

For those who do not know, these books teach New Age contemplative prayer techniques, eastern meditation, breathing techniques, etc. Personally, I refused to practice the disciplines in the book, but instead practiced their biblical counterparts; I "meditated" (studied) scripture, prayed according to our Lord's commands, etc.

My problem is, that in a class of about twenty people, in which all but a couple are future pastors, none of the others were alarmed by these books! And when I critiqued them using scripture, I was mocked, and told that scripture has "many interpretations" and "multiple meanings" according to what the "Holy Spirit tells us" at that moment. Now, I replied, of course, that this was not the case; that all scripture had one meaning, that is, the meaning the author intended, and that scripture could not be taken in isolation in order to buttress some errant theological viewpoint. 

But all that aside; I am alarmed! This is a fundamentalist Seminary, not a place that I would expect such garbage. And the fact that none of the others even recognized a problem with any of them (to be fair, one man did say he did not like Westerhoff pushing a feminist agenda, but he had no problem with the New Age stuff), bothers me to no end! I literally had Romans 11:4 flash through my mind (not trying to sound arrogant here).

Is this garbage being spread everywhere, or is this isolated to my seminary?


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## CharlieJ (Nov 15, 2010)

That's very disheartening. It's probably a bit much to ask for Puritans from that seminary, but I would think that they could have found authors that are at least conservative and evangelical in their outlook. Why not classics like Bunyan, Tozer, Bridges, E. M. Bounds or even R. Kent Hughes? If arguing directly against certain ideas doesn't seem to be effective, you could try recommending some of these classics, hoping that your fellow students will see the difference for themselves.

Seminarians in general are afflicted with the "my school would never teach me anything wrong" disease.


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## fredtgreco (Nov 15, 2010)

My suggestion is that you look at, and recommend to others, Don Whitney. He is a very sound Reformed writer who focuses on spirituality and the spiritual disciplines.

Amazon.com: Donald S. Whitney: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks, Kindle


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## Damon Rambo (Nov 15, 2010)

Fred,

Thanks. I actually have that book; it is sitting on my shelf, but I have not yet had a chance to read it.


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## Dwimble (Nov 15, 2010)

Very sad. I read Foster's _Celebration of Discipline_ ages ago at the recommendation of a pastor, and even then when I was so ignorant and young something seemed weird about it...even though I was going to an arminian, charismatic church at the time, where that sort of thing was common. I tried using the "prayer" and "meditation" techniques and quickly abandoned them when something about them just didn't seem right. Thank God for his protection during that time when I had no access to any mature christians or sound doctrine. The fact that it is required reading in a baptist seminary class, and no one seems to notice or care, is certainly disheartening.


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## JML (Nov 15, 2010)

I guess I wasn't so far off in the other thread about this seminary after all. 

I had to take this class as well. Even then, when I wasn't reformed, I thought the class was a complete waste of time. It sounds like it would be a good class, "Spiritual Formation." But you are pretty much paying hundreds of dollars to read 2 or 3 books. We barely even discussed the books that we read. I can't remember all of the books we had to read but one was "If you Want to Walk on Water, You've Got to Get out of the Boat" by John Ortberg of Willow Creek fame. I agree with Joshua. Go to a reformed seminary.


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## Damon Rambo (Nov 15, 2010)

Joshua said:


> Mr. Rambo,
> 
> Is this seminary your only option? My ? Run, do not walk to the nearest exit.


 
At the moment, it is my only option, particularly because I am 2/3 of the way through my M.Div., because of the ministry that God has placed me in, and because of the limit of institutions willing to admit someone with an unaccredited Bible College degree. This has kind of taken me by surprise, because all the classes up until now, while Amyraldian in terms of Soteriology, were very solid. Required reading has been from guys like D.A. Carson, David Wells, John Edwards, Spurgeon, etc. (although there has been some wishy washy contemporary Baptist stuff in with it, but nothing outright heretical). This last semester has just surprised me!

In this class, I deigned to be salt and light, and just take the critical approach. I know one can learn just as much in a hostile environment, but it is much more stressful!


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## Andres (Nov 15, 2010)

Aside from being woefully poor in theology, isn't Foster's _Celebration of Disicipline_ a bit of lower level reading for an MDiv? I too had to read it for an undergrad class (it is truly bad) but I seem to remember it being popular with high school students.


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## Damon Rambo (Nov 15, 2010)

Andres said:


> Aside from being woefully poor in theology, isn't Foster's _Celebration of Disicipline_ a bit of lower level reading for an MDiv? I too had to read it for an undergrad class (it is truly bad) but I seem to remember it being popular with high school students.


 
Well, it is an entry level class that is required for the degree, that I put off. Remember that most M. Div.'s are designed for people with no ministerial training, and a undergrad in a secular field. So most of the "one" classes are easier, while the "two" classes are higher level. This is true of all seminaries, and is why an M.Div. is 90 hours rather than 30-60 like its secular counterparts.

FYI: RTS has "Renewal as a way of Life", by Lovelace for its Spiritual Formation class, which is the same reading level as "Celebration of Discipline" (though the theology of Lovelace is certainly better). 

http://www.rts.edu/Site/Academics/Docs/Syllabi/Orlando/2008_02_2PT702_Spiritual_Formation.pdf


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## Steve Curtis (Nov 15, 2010)

For what it's worth, Gordon-Conwell also uses _Celebration of Discipline_ for the "Spiritual Formation" course.


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 16, 2010)

Damon,
I think it's commendable that you are grieved over unsound doctrine. Don't lose that concern.

Now, put the insult and mockery aside, and get the work done, and move on. Finish the race; get out of Seminary with a degree, and your faith intact. If you ever have the opportunity and the desire to get a higher degree, choose a place where you can study with men you truly admire and respect. Otherwise, deal with the situation in the church where you worship and/or serve.

Except for general prayer, you are not responsible for the pulpits and pews where some of those men in your class may end up. Finding God's one (usually small and out-of-the-way) place of service for you has the salutary effect of narrowing down your focus onto the precious souls he has placed in your care. From Seminary, the world looks huge, and there is the sense that all of its problems also must be as large as the whole.

The sad reality is, that God may take one of those members of your class--one that stays a "bum" through graduation--and inflict a church with his ministry. May you or I never be that kind of instrument. Other churches (synagogues of Satan) are going to end up with some ear-itcher. They get what they deserve.

Christ is still in control of his church and its ministry, and he will preserve his faithful sheep, and feed them with knowledge and understanding. I would like to think that he is preparing both you and them for the time of your graduation. Sometimes, what you learn in a class is what you must avoid, and help others to avoid, as the years roll. Be encouraged. It isn't your ultimate task (probably) to shape a whole culture. Only a few men are so called, and what they do they typically don't even realize it, being too busy with their nose to the grindstone. Just shape and polish the five smooth stones you're given. And keep praying for the whole church besides.


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## seajayrice (Nov 16, 2010)

Orthodoxy shaped against the anvil of nonconformity.

1Co 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 
1Co 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.


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## Damon Rambo (Nov 16, 2010)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Damon,
> I think it's commendable that you are grieved over unsound doctrine. Don't lose that concern.
> 
> Now, put the insult and mockery aside, and get the work done, and move on. Finish the race; get out of Seminary with a degree, and your faith intact. If you ever have the opportunity and the desire to get a higher degree, choose a place where you can study with men you truly admire and respect. Otherwise, deal with the situation in the church where you worship and/or serve.
> ...


 
Thanks brother. I needed that! Well said.


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