# Calvinism... outside of John?



## no1special18 (Nov 10, 2004)

I was wondering if in the first three gospels there is anything that stands out as being clear teaching for the doctrines of Grace (any of the five points) or is it mainly just in the Gospel of John?

Do not get me wrong, I think Jesus is very clear about Total Depravity, Election, Limited Atonement, Effectual Grace, and Persevearence of the saints, within the Gospel of John (8:34, 6:65, 10:15, 6:37, 10:27) , and that alone is more than enough for me to stand on (especially since we also have Romans and Ephesians, and just about everywhere else in the Bible), but if you guys could show me some verses fromt the other Gospels I would much appreciate it.


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## fredtgreco (Nov 10, 2004)

The parable are excellent examples, as they are designed to hide the message from some and reveal it to others. (see esp. Matthew 13)

You can also see it in the narratives themselves. Why does Jesus stop to talk to, of all people, the woman at the well? Why does he heal one and not another?

Of course there are many other specific passages, but I am pressed for time now. Others will pick up on it I am sure.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Nov 10, 2004)

I have been looking for the verse for a long time from Matthew which talks about only those God chooses or something along those lines will come to Christ. It is so long ago I read it and it was one of those times you shut the Bible after reading and forget where you found it  I will keep looking.


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## Reformed1 (Nov 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih_
> I have been looking for the verse for a long time from Matthew which talks about only those God chooses or something along those lines will come to Christ. It is so long ago I read it and it was one of those times you shut the Bible after reading and forget where you found it  I will keep looking.



You may be thinking of John 6. But, then again, that is still in John.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Nov 10, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Reformed1_
> You may be thinking of John 6. But, then again, that is still in John.


I am certain that is not it. I just read it and I do not believe it to be what I am looking for. I dont think I was that far into the New Testament and am sure I found it in Matthew. Maybe I will have to read the whole book before I find it... there is a slight possibility of it being in Mark or Luke but I doubt it.


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## Scot (Nov 10, 2004)

Here's a few more that teach election, limited atonement and total depravity.

Matthew 15:13 "But he answered and said, Every plant, which my heavenly Father hath not planted, shall be rooted up." 

Matthew 20:28 "Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." 

Mark 7:21-23 "For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, Thefts, covetousness, deciet, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: All these things come from within, and defile the man." 

Luke 4:25-27 "But I tell you of a truth, many widows were in Israel in the days of Elias, when the heaven was shut up three years and six months, when great famine was throughout all the land; But unto none of them was Elias sent, save unto Sarepta, a city of Sidon, unto a women that was a widow. And many lepers were in Israel in the time of Eliseus the prophet; and none of them was cleansed, saving Naaman the Syrian."

[Edited on 11-11-2004 by Scot]


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