# History of the dogma of purgatory



## Bern (Sep 3, 2010)

Not sure if this is the right place to post this, but here goes anyway:

With the upcoming papal visit to the UK, my pastor has asked a few men to take bible studies on the differences between RC doctrines and reformed teachings on various topics, such as Mary and the saints, faith alone, etc.... so that church members will be more prepared to answer questions they are asked such as "whats the difference between the catholics and your lot?"

I've been given the topic of purgatory. Having done some reading, I know a little bit about the subject, but the area I'm finding hardest to grasp is the tradition of prayers for the dead. Its seems to me that this tradtition dates back a long way into Jewish history, and wasn't commonly frowned upon in the early church, with many key Christian figures accepting it as normal. This seems to be a major argument that RC's use in favour of purgatory. The prayers for the dead may have been along the lines of "let their soul enjoy the bliss of heaven", as opposed to the pergatorial purification of RC teaching, but this is still unbiblical.

Having said all this, when I take the study, it needs to be done in a loving way, promoting the glories of Christ and the fact that he has secured complete salvation for us, not a demolition of Roman Catholicism.

Can anyone shed any light on the history of purgatory and the definitive arguments against it?


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## SemperEruditio (Sep 3, 2010)

Might find this helpful.

Where is Purgatory in the Bible?
by Jon Jakoblich

Question about the Catholic Church? Ask, on our discussion forums!​

The Bible does not mention the exact word "purgatory," but instead it makes reference to a place. To claim that it does not exist because of this is a cop out.

You might as well even deny that there is a book called the Bible because no such name is found in the inspired writings.

You also might as well deny the Trinity, Incarnation, etc... because these words are not found in the Bible.

The name does not make the place; the place must exist first, then we give it a name. We call this place "purgatory" because it means "a cleansing place." Therein souls are purged from the small stains of sin, which prevent their immediate entrance into Heaven.

In the Old Testament
The first mention of Purgatory in the Bible is in 2 Maccabees 12:46: "Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin."

Granted 2 Maccabees may not be in Protestant Bibles, but even if it cannot be used doctrinally then it at least has to have some historical worth. In it we can see what the pre-Christian community believed.

In Chapter 12 we can see Scriptural proof for Purgatory and evidence that the Jews had sacrifices offered for those of their brothers who had lost their lives in battle. That the Jews prayed for the dead shows that they believed in a place where they could be helped (now called Purgatory) and that the prayers of their living brothers and sisters could help them in that place.

These words in the book of Maccabees had so clearly favored the Catholic custom, that the whole book was removed from the Protestant Bible. Unfortunately for them, even if the book was not inspired, it still tells us of the practice of God's chosen people.

In the New Testament
In Matthew 5:26 Christ is condemning sin and speaks of liberation only after expiation. "Amen, I say to you, you will not be released until you have paid the last penny." Now we know that no last penny needs to be paid in Heaven and from Hell there is no liberation at all; hence the reference must apply to a third place.

Matthew 12:32 says, "And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come."

The same person as in the previously mentioned verse, Matthew, speaks of sin against the Holy Spirit. The implication is that some sins can be forgiven in the world to come. But not in Hell from which there is no liberation; nor in Heaven because nothing imperfect can enter it as we see in the next part. Any remission of sin cannot occur in either of these places because they are a final destination unlike purgatory.

Revelation 21:27: "...but nothing unclean will enter it, nor anyone who does abominable things or tells lies." The place that is to be entered (the place to which this passage refers) is heaven (read the stuff around it for context).

The Bible clearly implies a place for temporary punishment after we die in the many passages which tell that God will reward or punish according to man's works.

What if purgatory really doesn't exist?
Say that there is no such thing as purgatory. What becomes of us? The Bible declares that nothing impurified can enter Heaven, but yet a careless word can defile the soul (Matthew 12:36); if there is no place of temporary punishment, the one guilty would be damned to Hell!

Who would be saved? Those who teach against purgatory teach an unreasonable doctrine.

So, why do non-Catholics reject a teaching so full of consolation? My guess is that they want to believe that the merits of Christ applied to the sinner who trusts in Him, will remove all sin; hence the believer will go at once to Heaven (also known as the belief called Sola Fide or faith alone).

Nowhere in the Bible does it say faith alone. This is un-Scriptural, since Christ tells us that to enter into life we must keep the commandments, hear the Church, do the will of His Father and much more with faith. Yes, actions plus faith.


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## Bern (Sep 6, 2010)

Thanks for the reply. Although none of this really answers my questions. I feel like I've hit a bit of a mental block with regards to the issue of our practical personal holiness. As I see it, the Catholics believe we are legally right before God, but that we must also have personal holiness (which is true!) to enter heaven, and they see purgatory as God's way of making us fit for heaven.

Which brings me to another question I have: Where do the unsaved go immediately when they die, because nobody is in hell (lake of fire) yet, since the judgment hasn't come. Sheol perhaps? If so this would appear to support the idea of purgatory. Any ideas anyone?


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## DTK (Sep 6, 2010)

Two books, one you would need to buy and one can be downloaded off the web.

The one you would need to buy is Jacques Le Goff, _The Birth of Purgatory_, trans. Arthur Goldhammer (Chicago, Illinois: The University of Chicago Press, 1984). It is written by a modern day Romanist who is helpful historically.

The second one, which you can download for free off the web is William John Hall, T_he Doctrine of Purgatory and the Practice of Praying for the Dead _(London: Henry Wix, 1843). The doctrine of Purgatory and the ... - Google Books

The latter is perhaps the kind of refutation for which you're looking.


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## Rich Koster (Sep 6, 2010)

SemperEruditio said:


> Might find this helpful.
> 
> Where is Purgatory in the Bible?
> by Jon Jakoblich
> ...


 
Wow! All of those circles and twistings have me in the mood for a pretzel.


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## TheElk (Sep 6, 2010)

"Twist not scripture lest ye be like Satan" - Paul Washer

If a place like purgatory is needed where "souls are purged from the small stains of sin, which prevent their immediate entrance into Heaven." Then Jesus lied or made a mistake when he said "It is finished!" (John 19:30).

A small stain of sin is the same as a large stain of sin. James 2:10 For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all. 
(NASB). Romans 6:23a - "For the wages of sin is death," (NASB).

Putting purgatory in the same category as Trinity, Incarnation, and Bible is a Red Herring. The Trinity and the Incarnation are found from doctrine from WITHIN the scriptures. The name "bible" comes from the greek... Kind of self explanatory.

When God saved me I dug into the Scriptures to find more about Him. My boss at the time was a Roman Catholic. I asked him where purgatory was in the Bible and he said he wasn't sure and would get back to me. He couldn't find any scriptures, but had plenty of "traditional" sources. It failed the smell test.

If Christ's death on the cross and the cup of wrath fully poured out, then His death was enough. Purgatory is not needed.

*ETA: On second thought, I noticed you were looking for help on the history of purgatory. I'll leave my comment but will remove them if you would like.*

From what I remember when I looked into purgatory:

The Jews were fighting as described in Maccabees. A group of Jews were killed fighting and were found with tattoos of pagan gods that were supposed to afford protection in battle. Therefore, the other living "faithful" Jews pray for the dead that their indiscretions may be overlooked since they died in battle for God. 

It seems that God and the Roman Catholic church have something in common: They both create ex nihilo!


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## jambo (Sep 7, 2010)

I have actually found that although purgatory is still on the books, the number of RCs who actually believe in is declining rapidly. Although masses and prayers are said for the dead to speed up their time in purgatory, its looked on as a tradition the reality is that RCs think we are all going to heaven anyway provided they have been.

I would tend to focus on the complete sufficiency of Christ's work in atonement, specially from the book of Hebrews.


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## Bern (Sep 9, 2010)

yes, thats the ultimate thrust of the study. I'm actually not going to go on too much about the RC teachings, but I needed to kn ow the background thoroughly myself before giving any information to others. The main point of the study will be to show how Christ saves us totally and completely.


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## dudley (Sep 11, 2010)

Most of you know I am an ex Roman catholic and now a Presbyterian. I will share with you what I know. The Roman Catholic teaching on purgatory was officially proclaimed as dogma in 1438. This means that until that year, belief in the doctrine was not required. Purgatory is a temporary hell Roman Catholics must attend in order to work off their sins. Specifically, it is to cleanse the guilt of sins already forgiven and to deal with sins already confessed but not atoned for. I now as a Protestant pose the question “May we be so bold as to ask, whatever happened to the atonement of Christ?!”

Rome invented numerous ways to make and extort money 
from the people. Using the hope of heavenly reward and the 
fear of Hell and Purgatory - Rome devised a system by which people
would give their money to the church - in exchange for 
a lighter punishment for their sins. The people were 
encouraged to purchase Mass Cards for their deceased 
friends and relatives.

The Mass cards sold at Funerals - were said to
shorten their time in "Purgatory" and were said to
get them to heaven much quicker. Each Mass Card
had different prices. The cheaper cards purchased
would provide fewer prayers or Masses for the 
benefit of the deceased and were unannounced .
The more expensive Mass Cards - purchased a larger
amount of prayers or Masses to be said for the benefit 
of the deceased. The persons name is today still printed in the 
church bulletin announcing who the mass is being said for.

The reasoning here - was that the more money spent
on Mass Cards - would pay for more prayers to be
offered by the Bishops or Priests. And this would 
in turn - cut down the amount of time that the 
deceased would have to spend in Purgatory.

This of course is Religious Extortion. We are judged
by our deeds and not by the amount of prayers said
in our behalf by a priest. A place in heaven is
not bought with money - neither is punishment 
increased or decreased because of a money transaction.

As a Protestant I now believe the sale of masses for the dead 
or the selling of indulgences or a pilgrimages to a holy 
place has no affect on our redemption - regardless 
of how much money is donated or spent in these efforts.

The following is from the current catechism of the Roman catholic church. The current catechism has toned the language down a bit.

This may help a little it is from the latest catechism of the RC church.

III. THE FINAL PURIFICATION, OR PURGATORY 

1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. 

1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. The tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605 

As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.606
1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore [Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: 


Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.609


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## Staphlobob (Sep 12, 2010)

Glad you pointed out the connection between purgatory and mass cards. I was getting ready to do so, but you did it better. 

Indulgences continue even today.


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## Bern (Sep 12, 2010)

Thanks Dudley, I was hoping you might chip in on this thread


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