# National Center for Family Integrated Churches: morphing into a denomination?



## Shawn Mathis (Sep 2, 2015)

I have my opinion here: NCFIC: a new family integrated church denomination?

what are yours?

What should a Presbyterian church do who agrees with the NCFIC confession? Sign it? Or convince their presbytery to change the existing confession? Or...?

[Please, if someone thinks I "have it in" for the NCFIC, and the FIC movement in general, commenting that opinion does not contribute to the discussion (beyond being an ad hominem). I know my heart and so does the Lord].


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 2, 2015)

I'll tell you how I think it's going to function. I think the whole FIC movement attracts a certain brand of Church membership where FIC will become the central concern when someone is looking for a Church. In other words, if FIC is my primary focus then I'll look for a Church in that movement and attend it.


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## MW (Sep 2, 2015)

Shawn Mathis said:


> what are yours?



My view is simply that which has been carefully and clearly articulated in the Westminster Confession, which has faithfully represented the teaching of holy Scripture. The Confession has chapters on the civil magistrate, marriage, the church, and church government and discipline. The church and the family are regarded as two institutions which God has created, but they are expressly declared to be two different kinds of institutions with different foundations and functions. The church is an institution of the redeemed order under the headship of Christ, the God-man and Mediator. Its government and power is derived from Christ. The family is an institution of the creation order under the dominion of God as the Creator of all things. The church, not the family, is created for the spread of the gospel of grace and the discipleship of the "nations."

The "nations" include "families." The family is an object of discipleship; it is not ordained to disciple anyone. It has no power given to it by the head of the church to enable it to disciple. Parents have the power to physically coerce children; the church has the power to preach the word, administer sacraments, and exercise discipline by these means. It cannot physically punish any person. Discipleship is not by means of physical punishment. If the family seeks to disciple it uses physical punishments to do so. By so doing it will end up creating its own church-like structure which will function as a cult.


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## KMK (Sep 2, 2015)

MW said:


> By so doing it will end up creating its own church-like structure which will function as a cult.



Good thing that has never happened before in history...


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## Jeri Tanner (Sep 2, 2015)

MW said:


> Shawn Mathis said:
> 
> 
> > what are yours?
> ...



How does the charge to fathers in Ephesians 5 (and similar OT passages) fit into this? How is it that a Christian father is not discipling his children?


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## MW (Sep 2, 2015)

Jeri Tanner said:


> How does the charge to fathers in Ephesians 5 (and similar OT passages) fit into this?



Ephesians 6. Fathers are to use their natural authority, which includes a range of actions proper to the nature of their authority as civil superiors, to bring up their children in the fear and admonition of the Lord. Ecclesiastical authority is entirely "ministerial" as opposed to "magisterial," that is, it is an act of service in the name of the Lord. It lays no claim to civil superiority.



Jeri Tanner said:


> How is it that a Christian father is not discipling his children?



The specific actions connected with "discipling" are baptising and teaching in the name of the Lord, neither of which a father as a father is equipped or authorised to do.


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## Pergamum (Sep 3, 2015)

Wow...form a denomination around a theologically minor point? Sounds unhealthy, especially since a few FIC churches I visited had mixed theology in their midst, the uniting bond being homeschooling and patriarchy. These churches also seem to have many unspoken "rules" and "mores" in the circles that are added traditions.


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## Shawn Mathis (Sep 3, 2015)

Pergamum, That is true, but there are Presbyterians that are in favor of this movement and the confession that is offers. I offered the essay to show the direction (from Scott's own pen) of the movement and to warn the sister churches to be careful.


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## Jeri Tanner (Sep 3, 2015)

MW said:


> Jeri Tanner said:
> 
> 
> > How does the charge to fathers in Ephesians 5 (and similar OT passages) fit into this?
> ...


 
Thank you, most helpful.


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Sep 5, 2015)

As one with FIC leanings, I would say that it's pretty much impossible for the NCFIC to become a "denomination" as they have:
1) Presbyterial & independently-governed churches
2) Psalm-singing, hymn-singing, and contemproary
3) Credo & Paedo Reformed, Arminian, Pentecostal, and Messianic
4) Various contradicting confessions (including non-confessional)

No, they won't be a denomination. There are too many differences, and other than being conservative Protestants there really is no other bond except their views on family. If they tried to centralize, a bunch of their churches would leave.


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