# New Book Against Universalism



## LadyCalvinist (Dec 7, 2018)

Brethren;

Last Friday I attended a lecture at an OPC church given by Professor Michael McClymond of St Louis University who has written a new book, The Devil's Redemption. The book is a response to Rob Bell's Love Wins. It is a scholarly, two volume work dealing with the issue of Christian universalism. In the book he deals with such issues as Gnosticism, Origen, Jakob Bohme, a mystic who influenced many, including Hegel, and many proponents of universalism, not only Bell, but Karl Barth, who leaned towards some form of universalism towards the end of his career, and Paul Tillich, Jurgen Moltmann and others.

His thesis is that we are living in an age of widespread moral decline and collapse. "At this time of moral and spiritual emergency in the USA and throughout much of the world, Christian universalism is a false gospel offering false hope."

When I first heard that the topic of discussion was on universalism I almost got up and left the church but since I had driven half an hour to get there I decided to stay. I am glad I did. I found it all fascinating, once, when the professor was discussing Gnosticism, I commented that the whole thing sounded like something out of Star Trek. 

Shane Rosenthal, the producer of the White Horse Inn, was there in attendance and is promoting the book.

Reactions: Like 2 | Informative 1


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## bookish_Basset (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm glad to hear about Dr. McClymond's book being promoted (and wish I'd known about the lecture!). I had the privilege of doing a semester of coursework with Dr. McClymond when I was a SLU student. I don't know all of his theological views so can't vouch for them, but I do know him to be a thorough scholar with a deep love for the church. There was a good interview with him about the book on the October 21 episode of the White Horse Inn. It definitely encouraged me to check out the book eventually.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JimmyH (Dec 7, 2018)

I'm very interested in this book, but the high price (Oxford always is) will probably overcome my interest. Going to the 7 reviews on Amazon the first or which is a longish interview with the author by a Texas minister and radio personality, David Moore George,
Professor McClymond also co-authored a study of Jonathan Edwards' Theology which is very highly regarded, and also very expensive.
EDIT; Not Oxford University Press, it is published by Baker Academic, thanks to Dr. Strange for bringing my error to my attention.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Stephen L Smith (Dec 7, 2018)

Does he deal with the emergents/ post-conservative theologians who have gone liberal and their view of salvation, or even the mystics and their view of salvation?


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## bookish_Basset (Dec 7, 2018)

Stephen L Smith said:


> Does he deal with the emergents/ post-conservative theologians who have gone liberal and their view of salvation, or even the mystics and their view of salvation?



From the table of contents, it looks like a pretty exhaustive treatment, from the early church to the present: http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-devil-s-redemption-2-volumes/340800

It looks like he does cover "emergent"/revisionist evangelicals besides Bell.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## OPC'n (Dec 8, 2018)

Sounds interesting. You can get volume one in hardcover or you can get volume 1&2 on kindle. Not sure why they don't have both volumes in hardcover. https://www.amazon.com/Devils-Redem...275017&sr=8-2&keywords=The+Devil's+Redemption


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## Alan D. Strange (Dec 8, 2018)

JimmyH said:


> (Oxford always is)



Jimmy,

This is not an OUP book; it is a Baker Academic publication. 

I have it and have skimmed it, with the intent to review it. It looks quite good. And, yes, while it may address Rob Bell's errors, it is far more reaching than that, detailing the error of universalism through the history of the Christian Church. 

Peace,
Alan

Reactions: Informative 1


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## bookslover (Dec 10, 2018)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Jimmy,
> 
> This is not an OUP book; it is a Baker Academic publication.
> 
> ...



OK, I'm confused. Apparently, looking at Amazon, it's not two separate hardcover volumes but one hardcover volume with the text internally divided into two "volumes" with consecutive pagination. On the other hand, Amazon's rendition of the cover says "volume 1" at the top, implying that there is a separate volume 2.

So, which is it? Is it two separate volumes, or one volume with the text divided into "volumes" within it? Inquiring minds want to know (especially because it ain't cheap!).

Either way, it looks very interesting.


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## bookslover (Dec 10, 2018)

Stephen L Smith said:


> Does he deal with the emergents/ post-conservative theologians who have gone liberal and their view of salvation, or even the mystics and their view of salvation?



Interesting that you should mention them. Carl Trueman, in a recent edition of "Modern Reformation" magazine, thinks that the emergent/emerging church movement is dead, having become as worldly and corrupt as the mega-churches it was originally formed to criticize.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JimmyH (Dec 10, 2018)

bookslover said:


> OK, I'm confused. Apparently, looking at Amazon, it's not two separate hardcover volumes but one hardcover volume with the text internally divided into two "volumes" with consecutive pagination. On the other hand, Amazon's rendition of the cover says "volume 1" at the top, implying that there is a separate volume 2.
> 
> So, which is it? Is it two separate volumes, or one volume with the text divided into "volumes" within it? Inquiring minds want to know (especially because it ain't cheap!).
> 
> Either way, it looks very interesting.


I just took advantage of the 'Look Inside' feature on Amazon, and checking out the table of contents it appears to be 2 volumes under one cover. Shipping weight being shown as 4.8 pounds it is likely all in one volume. 

BTW, I had also checked out other titles/reviews available from the author and his 'The Theology of Jonathan Edwards' being published by Oxford U Press caused me to have the 'senior moment' in labelling both as Oxford in my prior post.


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## TheOldCourse (Dec 10, 2018)

bookslover said:


> Interesting that you should mention them. Carl Trueman, in a recent edition of "Modern Reformation" magazine, thinks that the emergent/emerging church movement is dead, having become as worldly and corrupt as the mega-churches it was originally formed to criticize.



I wonder about that myself. I don't travel in broader evangelical circles too much, but I just don't hear much about it any more. Guys like Rob Bell and Brian McLaren seem to have mostly exhausted their 5 minutes of fame they gained by evangelicalizing liberalism and your Dan Kimballs and Donald Millers are no longer new toys to the more conservative evangelicals and seem to generate little interest any more. The book seems a useful one regardless, if I can ever find a discounted used copy I might pick it up.


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## bookslover (Dec 10, 2018)

JimmyH said:


> I just took advantage of the 'Look Inside' feature on Amazon, and checking out the table of contents it appears to be 2 volumes under one cover. Shipping weight being shown as 4.8 pounds it is likely all in one volume.
> 
> BTW, I had also checked out other titles/reviews available from the author and his 'The Theology of Jonathan Edwards' being published by Oxford you Press caused me to have the 'senior moment' in labelling both as Oxford in my prior post.



I think you're right about that. Makes me wonder if Baker originally planned to publish it as two volumes and then changed its mind.


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## JimmyH (Dec 10, 2018)

bookslover said:


> I think you're right about that. Makes me wonder if Baker originally planned to publish it as two volumes and then changed its mind.


Actually it looks like I'm (shudder) wrong ! Baker Academic website specifies 2 volumes.
http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-devil-s-redemption-2-volumes/340800


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## bookslover (Dec 10, 2018)

JimmyH said:


> Actually it looks like I'm (shudder) wrong ! Baker Academic website specifies 2 volumes.
> http://bakerpublishinggroup.com/books/the-devil-s-redemption-2-volumes/340800



Yes, I saw that, too. I hope that Dr. Strange will enlighten us about this confusion, since he has a review copy. Meanwhile, I found a copy on Amazon. It came to less than $50 with tax - found it as a used (but never read) copy.


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## JimmyH (Dec 10, 2018)

bookslover said:


> Yes, I saw that, too. I hope that Dr. Strange will enlighten us about this confusion, since he has a review copy. Meanwhile, I found a copy on Amazon. It came to less than $50 with tax - found it as a used (but never read) copy.


I think I saw that one. I went there, and to ABE to see if any sellers specified two volumes but none of them did. Congrats on getting the book. I hope it meets your expectations.


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## Alan D. Strange (Dec 10, 2018)

bookslover said:


> I hope that Dr. Strange will enlighten us about this confusion, since he has a review copy.



Yes, Richard, it is indeed two discreet volumes, with continuous pagination (coming in at over 1300 pp. for both volumes). I think that this book is worth the price: I got my review copy for the best price (!), but also bought a set for a son-in-law as a gift. 

Peace,
Alan


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## bookslover (Dec 11, 2018)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Yes, Richard, it is indeed two discreet volumes, with continuous pagination (coming in at over 1300 pp. for both volumes). I think that this book is worth the price: I got my review copy for the best price (!), but also bought a set for a son-in-law as a gift.
> 
> Peace,
> Alan



Thanks, Alan. I think the way Baker and/or Amazon has marketed it may account for my confusion. Mine will be in the mail soon, I hope.

Now, on to John Frame's new book defending natural theology (against Karl Barth et al, which is published tomorrow [12/11])!


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## LadyCalvinist (Dec 11, 2018)

One thing I forgot mention is that the author said that he got together with a number of other pastors a few weeks ago to discuss what to do about universalism. They decided that the best thing would be to preach the cross, that is, the cost of salvation and the heinousness of sin.

Reactions: Like 1


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## bookslover (Dec 14, 2018)

I found a copy of the set on Amazon. Even with the shipping included, it was less than $50 (used, but in primo condition). The list price is $90, I think. I found me a bargain!


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