# Tongue not necessary for private prayer?



## Christoffer (Feb 25, 2010)

The institutes, Book 3, ch. 20, sect 33

_*Lastly, the tongue is not even necessary to private prayer, unless in so far as the internal feeling is insufficient for incitement, or the vehemence of the incitement carries the utterance of the tongue along with it. *_

I was surprised at this statement. I don't agree nor disagree, I am just surprised. 

My reasoning has been such that I haven't really prayed for something completely before verbally finishing all the sentences, putting my thougts into words that is. Is this superstition on my part?

I feel sometimes, though, that using the tongue can be a hindrance, would actually be a relief sometimes to just pray silently.

Anyway, do the PB:ers agree or not with Calvins statement?


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## Tim (Feb 25, 2010)

Sometimes my mind wanders when I pray in my head, but when I say the words with my tongue, I am more focused.


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## LawrenceU (Feb 25, 2010)

I would agree with Calvin. Language, the mode of communication between men, is an expression of thought. It is external. Thought which is the seed bed of language is internal. God knows thought. Expression of thought between man and God need not be made audible by language.


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## toddpedlar (Feb 25, 2010)

I have to say I completely agree with Calvin. A few things to think about:

When the pastor is leading the congregation in prayer, is it not genuine prayer for the congregation since they are not verbally praying as they sit agreeing with him?

When you are at your workplace, and you desire to pray for something in the moment, are you not "really praying" if you do so silently?

What if you are in anguish over something and long to pray but cannot even put words to your prayer? Are you unable therefore to pray?

Is a person who has no tongue or ability to speak out loud unable to pray?

I share Calvin's opinion that in praying personally there is nothing whatsoever necessary about the mechanical functioning of the tongue, mouth, vocal cords and lungs in order to truly pray. As Tim noted, it may help you focus, but it cannot be necessary.


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## Scott1 (Feb 25, 2010)

> Westminster Confession
> 
> Chapter XXI
> Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day
> ...


.


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## Christoffer (Feb 25, 2010)

Thanks for the thoughts, this was really interesting!



toddpedlar said:


> I have to say I completely agree with Calvin. A few things to think about:
> 
> When you are at your workplace, and you desire to pray for something in the moment, are you not "really praying" if you do so silently?



I used to think so anyway... I always went to the toilets to pray! 

I cringe when I admit this 



> What if you are in anguish over something and long to pray but cannot even put words to your prayer? Are you unable therefore to pray?
> 
> Is a person who has no tongue or ability to speak out loud unable to pray?
> 
> I share Calvin's opinion that in praying personally there is nothing whatsoever necessary about the mechanical functioning of the tongue, mouth, vocal cords and lungs in order to truly pray. As Tim noted, it may help you focus, but it cannot be necessary.


 
Good points.


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## au5t1n (Feb 25, 2010)

> 1 Samuel 1:12 And it came to pass, as she continued praying before the LORD, that Eli marked her mouth.
> 
> 1 Samuel 1:13 Now Hannah, she spake in her heart; only her lips moved, but her voice was not heard: therefore Eli thought she had been drunken.
> 
> ...



Granted, her lips were moving, but she was still silent.


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## Ivan (Feb 25, 2010)

I totally agree with Calvin. Most of my praying is not verbal. I pray throughout the day.


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## SemperEruditio (Feb 25, 2010)

toddpedlar said:


> I have to say I completely agree with Calvin. A few things to think about:
> 
> When the pastor is leading the congregation in prayer, is it not genuine prayer for the congregation since they are not verbally praying as they sit agreeing with him?
> 
> ...



I'm going to direct some of the folk from my previous church to this thread. When I was there they were under the impression that the louder one gets in prayer the more God hears us.


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## JennyG (Feb 25, 2010)

I agree with Tim too. I never imagined that silent prayer was any less real, in fact it was almost always my practice in private prayer, but when I began praying aloud I found it a real help to stay focussed. I've found the same thing with kneeling and closing the eyes.
I don't think it's a sign of a superstitious mindset (though I suppose it could be), - more a natural result of being both soul and body. As long as we're in the body, the physical is going to impact the spiritual.


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## Roldan (Feb 25, 2010)

seriously?? lol


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## Mushroom (Feb 25, 2010)

Absolutely agree with Calvin. In fact I use this principle to get the idea across to my children that God is not just an external witness to their words and behavior, but hears their every thought. I want them to understand that He is present in their minds, there is no place that is hid from Him. I find that to be a great comfort, and when not distracted by the world or my flesh I tend to have an ongoing conversation with Him about what's going on around me. It's during those distractions where I find myself blowing it. I relate this to 'acknowledging Him in all my ways'. When I'm not doing that, there is a fool directing my path. And that happens far too frequently!


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## VictorBravo (Feb 25, 2010)

Nothing to add except Romans 8:26 tells us we don't even know how to pray properly anyway:



> Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.


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## yoyoceramic (Feb 25, 2010)

Ps 139 tells us that the Lord discerns our thoughts from afar....


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