# Recommendations for Master's and/or M.Div in the Detroit area



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

I'm looking to get a higher education in theological studies. I have a BS degree in a completely unrelated field (Agribusiness and Applied Economics) from Ohio State University but have been studying for over a year with Ligonier Ministries using their Ligonier Connect and other learning resources and think I have a good enough basis to make it through a Master's program.

I'm looking for something with a mix of online and evening in-person curriculum in a Seminary or College in the Detroit metro area. I need evenings because I'm the sole provider for myself and my wife, so I can't quit my job to study full-time (oh, how I wish I had done this right after my bachelors). 

Is anybody aware of anything good? PREFERABLY Reformed and Presbyterian, but I know I'm getting picky so that's not an absolute requirement.

My searches have just come up blank and I don't really know the reputation of the schools/seminaries around here, so the only good things I'm seeing are out in Grand Rapids, but with how large Detroit is, there HAS to be something reputable!

Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated!


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Jun 9, 2015)

Accredited or non-accredited? What is your end goal for the degree studies?


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> Accredited or non-accredited? What is your end goal for the degree studies?



Preferably accredited.

I haven't figured that out completely. I'm being led down this path to further my education, but I don't have the full plan. Right now I'm kind of looking at my options and see where that leads me. I have a heart for youth - middle school through high school. I've seen too many young people not have the theological or apologetical backbone they need when they leave for college, so then they get all mixed up and confused and then when they come back or go out into the world they aren't really sure what's right. Right now my wife thinks I'm being pulled towards youth ministry, but I'm just sure that I'm being called to get further education in a more social environment. I can study on Ligonier Connect isolated in the bedroom, but that's both stupid and can be dangerous, so I want to take what I've learned to an actual classroom where I can be surrounded by others who can relate with me.

I see you're faculty at TNARS. I was looking at TNARS and it is relevant to my interests. I'm definitely considering it, but I really need to get myself into a classroom with other students. I can't do this alone anymore.


----------



## Jake (Jun 9, 2015)

Puritan Seminary in Grand Rapids is a great Reformed seminary, and as I understand it, they have classes online with occasional blocks of classes during convenient times, which you may be able to do since you are relatively nearby. They are also recently accredited.


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

Jake said:


> Puritan Seminary in Grand Rapids is a great Reformed seminary, and as I understand it, they have classes online with occasional blocks of classes during convenient times, which you may be able to do since you are relatively nearby. They are also recently accredited.


It's a 2 hour drive from where I live so they'd have to be extremely convenient times lol. I was hoping to stay closer to home, but I'll look in to it. 

Thanks!


----------



## arapahoepark (Jun 9, 2015)

GraceOverwhelmsMe said:


> Jake said:
> 
> 
> > Puritan Seminary in Grand Rapids is a great Reformed seminary, and as I understand it, they have classes online with occasional blocks of classes during convenient times, which you may be able to do since you are relatively nearby. They are also recently accredited.
> ...



If I am not mistaken you can take half of the courses online but the rest have to be at the campus. They'd be a top recommendation for that area or Michigan in general.


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

arap said:


> GraceOverwhelmsMe said:
> 
> 
> > Jake said:
> ...


2 hours drive for half of the curriculum is simply too much with my current work load and responsibilities at home. I'm looking for something much closer to Detroit.


----------



## Kiffin (Jun 9, 2015)

If you know how to sift through dispensationalism and Baptist distinctives, there's Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary. If you want a broader evangelical school, Moody Theological Seminary-Michigan. I think those are good options (conservative), if you supplement them with reformed theology through your own reading, online classes, and most importantly, a Reformed church.


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

Kiffin said:


> If you know how to sift through dispensationalism and Baptist distinctives, there's Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.


Yeah, I was taking a look at that. Would going to a Baptist seminary hurt me while looking into ministry positions in Presbyterian circles? 

I suppose if I could demonstrate a working knowledge of covenantal theology, I would be all right.


----------



## Kiffin (Jun 9, 2015)

GraceOverwhelmsMe said:


> Kiffin said:
> 
> 
> > If you know how to sift through dispensationalism and Baptist distinctives, there's Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary.
> ...




Shoot SolaScriptura a PM. He went to Southern Seminary and is a PCA minister i beiieve..


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Jun 9, 2015)

Not Reformed, but...

How about Regent: http://success.regent.edu/religion_theology.php

Then there is:
http://www.etseminary.edu/admissions-for-masters-programs.html
http://seminary.ashland.edu/


----------



## Edward (Jun 9, 2015)

GraceOverwhelmsMe said:


> Would going to a Baptist seminary hurt me while looking into ministry positions in Presbyterian circles?


 Generally, yes. From a practical standpoint, it would cut into networking and referral opportunities. As between two otherwise well qualified candidates, it might lead to de-selection. Some of this might be helped through internships, and references from your home church and presbytery. 

How big is your church? Have you talked to your elders to see if there is any appetite for sponsoring an outreach campus from one of the established seminaries? (Just looked - seems your church has about 5 pastors, so it must be fairly good sized.)


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

Edward said:


> GraceOverwhelmsMe said:
> 
> 
> > Would going to a Baptist seminary hurt me while looking into ministry positions in Presbyterian circles?
> ...


I haven't talked to any elders yet. I'm not even officially a member of the church yet. I embraced Reformed theology in the later months of 2014 and we just found a Presbyterian Church we liked. Ward Church is pretty big. One of the bigger EPC churches, mainly because it is the church where the original EPC formation meeting was held, which I think is totally cool. I think the 2015 annual report showed around 2,000 attendees across 4 services if that gives you an idea. 

I hope to streamline my wife and my membership. The senior pastor and I have talked a little but I plan on setting up a meeting with him to discuss any kind of volunteer or part time internship opportunities at the church and to get recommendations from him on how to move forward and to make sure that this calling is for real.


----------



## yeutter (Jun 9, 2015)

I think that Moody has a campus in Plymouth, in Oakland County.
Based on the quality of the preaching of the graduates; I would echo the positive comments made about Puritan Reformed.
What are your pastor and session recommending?


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

yeutter said:


> I think that Moody has a campus in Plymouth, in Oakland County.
> Based on the quality of the preaching of the graduates; I would echo the positive comments made about Puritan Reformed.
> What are your pastor and session recommending?


I haven't talked to them just yet. See my above post. #13


----------



## Nicholas Perella (Jun 9, 2015)

yeutter said:


> What are your pastor and session recommending?



It comes down to this. What Mr. Yeutter said above.

As an aside. Two hours may not be that long of a drive once the lay of the land - Reformed wise - is circumspectly considered, but you know your current work load and home responsibilities better than we do.


----------



## Contra_Mundum (Jun 9, 2015)

You should speak to the pastor of Southfield (or Providence) OPC or Farmington Hills (or Oakland Hills Community) OPC (see http://opc.org/locator.html to find contact info.)

There are seminary students in those churches who are figuring out how to get it done.

I know of at least one person (who left the state) who spent some time at Detroit Baptist. They were having students sign a doctrinal statement; and this one fellow couldn't continue to sign it in good conscience once he gave up dispensationalism, and then embraced baptism-including-infants.

Since we are commending distance ed., I may as well mention Greenville Presbyterian, which has a good distance program ( http://www.gpts.edu )


----------



## TylerRay (Jun 9, 2015)

I'd hate to beat a dead horse, but most Reformed folks are agreed: There is no better brick-and-mortar seminary in the country for learning Reformed theology than Puritan Seminary.

A few considerations:
1. The professors at the seminary are thoroughly Reformed in their doctrine, and belong to sound denominations.
2. The seminary will have a robustly Reformed student body; you will get to rub shoulders with others wrestling with issues from a Reformed perspective.
3. PRTS has the best Puritan library this side of the Atlantic.
4. PRTS students have access to the Meeter Center for Reformation Studies at Calvin Seminary, which is the one of the best, if not _the_ best library of Reformation-era literature in country.
5. PRTS is accredited, which can prove helpful if you consider furthering your academic career.

If making a move closer to Grand Rapids is feasible at all, you would do well to consider it. It could pay dividends. Furthermore, there are many strong churches in the area. This is a discussion for another thread, but I don't know if you are aware of the dangers of theological liberalism in the EPC at large.


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 9, 2015)

Nicholas Perella said:


> It comes down to this. What Mr. Yeutter said above.



Yeah, you're probably right. I'll get in touch with these folks and have a conversation.

Right now I'm just getting ideas and thoughts together. Not planning on enrolling any time in the very near future.



TylerRay said:


> If making a move closer to Grand Rapids is feasible at all, you would do well to consider it.



I think right now, moving is not a feasible option. My job is amazing. I'd probably prefer to do a 2 hour commute if I had to before giving up a job that I love in order to study part time.



TylerRay said:


> I don't know if you are aware of the dangers of theological liberalism in the EPC at large.



I'm aware, and frankly, I'm not overly concerned. As I've seen sprinkled all over these forums, there are some EPC churches that are actually more conservative than some PCA churches. The church I'm in is conservative in the places I think it absolutely needs to be, and for the other things, I'm always open to have a discussion. If it starts going the way of the PC(USA), that's when I'll start getting truly concerned, but honestly, I don't see that happening, but I've been wrong before.

I appreciate all of your input. I'll keep you all posted once I have a discussion with my pastor and session and have made a decision. I will definitely look at PRTS with extra interest based on the seemingly unanimous vote of confidence.


----------



## iainduguid (Jun 10, 2015)

GraceOverwhelmsMe said:


> I'm looking to get a higher education in theological studies. I have a BS degree in a completely unrelated field (Agribusiness and Applied Economics) from Ohio State University but have been studying for over a year with Ligonier Ministries using their Ligonier Connect and other learning resources and think I have a good enough basis to make it through a Master's program.
> 
> I'm looking for something with a mix of online and evening in-person curriculum in a Seminary or College in the Detroit metro area. I need evenings because I'm the sole provider for myself and my wife, so I can't quit my job to study full-time (oh, how I wish I had done this right after my bachelors).
> 
> ...



Bryan, what you don't say is what you want the degree for? Are you thinking of pastoral ministry or merely personal edification? If you are thinking of a lifetime of pastoral ministry, then an M.Div. is not simply "checking the required box" so that you can get ordained. It is (in most cases)the only opportunity you will get to develop the foundation and tools needed to serve the church. That's worth leaving a job and moving for, if the local options are anything short of excellent. I understand the value of remaining connected in a local church (we had a student in Grove City who commuted down from there to RPTS in Pittsburgh (about 60 miles) in order to remain with us during his studies, but I don't think you should settle for somewhere that is doctrinally not on the same page as you. You have much to learn!

(as a professor at Westminster Seminary Philadelphia, let me put a plug in for that school too. But there are many good reformed seminaries in the US).


----------



## SolamVeritatem (Jun 10, 2015)

[/QUOTE]Bryan, what you don't say is what you want the degree for? Are you thinking of pastoral ministry or merely personal edification? If you are thinking of a lifetime of pastoral ministry, then an M.Div. is not simply "checking the required box" so that you can get ordained. It is (in most cases)the only opportunity you will get to develop the foundation and tools needed to serve the church. That's worth leaving a job and moving for, if the local options are anything short of excellent. I understand the value of remaining connected in a local church (we had a student in Grove City who commuted down from there to RPTS in Pittsburgh (about 60 miles) in order to remain with us during his studies, but I don't think you should settle for somewhere that is doctrinally not on the same page as you. You have much to learn!

(as a professor at Westminster Seminary Philadelphia, let me put a plug in for that school too. But there are many good reformed seminaries in the US).[/QUOTE]



The only thing I would reiterate from the above is that if ministry is a lifelong pursuit for you, make sure you study and prepare for it at the absolute best place you can. No use in settling for an institution you might regret later. All of this depends on what you're looking for, of course. 

In Him,

Craig


----------



## GraceOverwhelmsMe (Jun 10, 2015)

iainduguid said:


> Are you thinking of pastoral ministry or merely personal edification



At this point, I'm leaning toward personal edification that may at some point lead to something bigger. This is why accreditation is kind of important. That way if I need to transfer credits to somewhere else, it'll be a lot easier.


----------



## ChristGraceText (Jun 13, 2015)

I would cross Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary off the list. All their professors are dear brothers who are of the Fundamental, Dispensational crowd. A couple of them are calvinists but at large it would be a difficult time to wade through your first seminary training in those circumstances.


----------



## psycheives (Jun 13, 2015)

I would add an eighth? vote for Puritan Seminary for personal edification (nothing more confusing than holding multiple essential beliefs that contradict one another ) and especially to have a solid foundation to teach your wife, children and the church. I think especially if you have children, the investment for your family is worth it. I would try to find a bus/train to make the two hour commute and get some reading/homework/studying done on the trip. Maybe your wife can drive you, as you do homework, and this can be a good bonding time. Some seminaries let spouses sit in for a discount or free, so she directly and personally benefit. 

Is your current house directly (straight line?) between your work and between Puritan? If not, perhaps moving to a location directly between the two (but closer to the job) would help? Or finding a way to work a bit from home - remote access? Sometimes Seminaries can be slightly flexible in these sorts of situations, so I would for sure check with Puritan on the specifics before ever crossing them off. And once you start, you may just be so blessed that you won't feel there is any other place for you and the trip will feel like a joy and not a burden! At the very worst, perhaps start at Puritan and transfer elsewhere if it became impossible to finish? Perhaps do one semester on campus, next semester online - change it up to take breaks.

I agree with Pastor Duguid's message. Sometimes we aren't yet on fire for the ministry or feel a calling but going to a place like Puritan can change things in a way you never imagined. And when our priorities change, God moves us from a job we couldn't imagine living without for personal reasons, to a new and much more fulfilling job we truly are called to by God.  May God use you and equip you, my brother! Or equip you and use you! And there's nothing a godly woman finds more attractive than a godly man who knows, loves and lives the Word of God!


----------



## yeutter (Jun 24, 2015)

Moore Theological College is not at all close to Detroit. http://www.moore.edu.au/distance Its Distance Learning program might be worth considering.


----------

