# Freemasonry



## JM

Any masons on the PB?


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## Athaleyah

Aren't masonry beliefs in conflict with Christianity? Like you go through various levels of knowledge to find divine truth. And this truth has nothing to do with the God of the Bible? I could be mistaken, but this is what I had heard.


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## gene_mingo

Here is what the OPC has to say on the issue.

Christ or the Lodge? A Report on Freemasonry


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

nm


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## Marrow Man

I have a trowel and bricks if anyone needs a hand...


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## john_Mark

JM,

I used to be a free-mason. Do you have any questions or inquiries?


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## JM

I've been asked to join a few times over the years and the invite has come up again so I thought I start a thread.


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## larryjf

That's interesting...you're not supposed to be "invited" to become a freemason. They can give you material, but they are supposed to wait for you to ask them to join.

I was told that when in a freemason meeting you are not allowed to mention Jesus...that's enough for me. If they don't want my Savior they don't want me.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/any-masons-board-18825/


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## Matthew1034

SBC has freemasonry activity in it, Billy Graham is a freemason


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## JohnGill

larryjf said:


> That's interesting...you're not supposed to be "invited" to become a freemason. They can give you material, but they are supposed to wait for you to ask them to join.
> 
> I was told that when in a freemason meeting you are not allowed to mention Jesus...that's enough for me. If they don't want my Savior they don't want me.



I was asked to join as well. My grandfather was a freemason. I've heard some wild stories about it and don't really care to join.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

This is a very touchy subject in my home as my Father-in-law is a 33 degree Mason and is in "leadership" as well as being a Shrine-member and a clown.


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## Seb

Matthew1034 said:


> SBC has freemasonry activity in it...



I agree, but it's funny because the SBC itself strongly opposes lodge membership.

From the SBC's site: About Us - Basic Beliefs



> 19. What is the SBC's stance on "Freemasonry?"
> 
> The SBC passed a resolution in 1992 opposing membership and participation in organizations that contradict the Bible (SBC Resolution: RESOLUTION ON CHRISTIAN WITNESS AND VOLUNTARY ASSOCIATIONS), but these resolutions are not binding upon local churches.
> 
> In its 1993 report, the SBC stated that there were aspects of Freemasonry that are incompatible with Christianity. The main conclusion of the report states:
> 
> We conclude that many tenets and teachings of Freemasonry are not compatible with Christianity or Southern Baptist doctrine.



I have an uncle who is both a Freemason and SBC, and try as I might to show him, he refuses to see the incompatibilities. I think many of them are convinced that they are "going to the next level" in getting closer to God.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

Key phrase from your quotation _*"but these resolutions are not binding upon local churches."*_...


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## Seb

Yeah, unfortunately with the SBC almost EVERYTHING is "Non-binding on the local Churches" They are the denomination that isn't a denomination.

If you go the to the link, you'll see that they also have a few articles from the N.A.M.B. that also opposes F.M.


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## Presbyterian Deacon

Definitely not a Free Mason!

No desire to bow at the altar of their generic god, "the master architect of the universe." (sounds more like a saturday morning cartoon character than a diety to me)


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## Galatians220

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> Definitely not a Free Mason!
> 
> No desire to bow at the altar of their generic god, \"the master builder of the universe.\" (sounds more like a saturday morning cartoon character than a diety to me)


 
[video=youtube;N1CMW1iI8QY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1CMW1iI8QY[/video]

  

Margaret


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## gene_mingo

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> This is a very touchy subject in my home as my Father-in-law is a 33 degree Mason and is in "leadership" as well as being a Shrine-member and a clown.



My heart goes out to you. This is a very touchy subject in many homes and churches. 

I believe that Freemasonry and Arminianism complement each other in the sense that both are works of ones own will towards being a better person.

I have read "Morals and Dogma" by Albert Pike and have come to the conclusion that freemasonry is a religion on its own.


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## Athaleyah

Never mind


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## Scott1

You may find helpful the PCA study committee report on this topic:

http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/2-300.pdf


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## kalawine

OK... As I was saying! Tee Hee... Prayer Requests


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## DMcFadden

National Treasure 7
With Nicholas Cage as Puritan Board Administrator Rich






The Puritan Board search for the Masons among us! You can run, but you can't hide. We will find you! We will get you! We will catechize you!​


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## kalawine

*My favorite secret society... Thuh Coons... *


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## LawrenceU

Free Masonry is no joke. My family has deep roots of Scottish Rite Masonry. Thankfully, my grandfather broke that chain at the end of his life. He was a 33rd degree and was 'way up' the chain in his state. The Lord opened his eyes and he spilled the beans to us men. I could go on for hours on this. But, it would no be appropriate.


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## kalawine

LawrenceU said:


> Free Masonry is no joke. My family has deep roots of Scottish Rite Masonry. Thankfully, my grandfather broke that chain at the end of his life. He was a 33rd degree and was 'way up' the chain in his state. The Lord opened his eyes and he spilled the beans to us men. I could go on for hours on this. But, it would no be appropriate.



Please excuse me if I seem too be too lighthearted about it. But as bad as it is and as much as I'm against it, when I was a "Charismaniac", I (and many in the church I went to at the time) prayed against the "Masonic spirit" all the time. I worried about it, fretted over it and could tell you about any time a group of Shriners broke a champagne bottle against a federal building to christen it. I have pounded the truth of the ML into my boy's minds for years and I don't repent of one word that I've spoken on the matter. But I must say that it was very liberating a few years ago to shed the fear of this junk and go on with my life. It's not healthy to worry about it or to make it a great point of focus. 

"Did you know that the world is being run by a secret society that everybody knows about?" - Dr. Bob Morey


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## Reformingstudent

Matthew1034 said:


> SBC has freemasonry activity in it, Billy Graham is a freemason




Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?


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## gene_mingo

Reformingstudent said:


> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SBC has freemasonry activity in it, Billy Graham is a freemason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
Click to expand...


How do you get proof from a secret society? 

On a more serious note,

Billy Graham denied being a freemason and the masons deny that he was ever a mason. This is mostly conjecture from anti-masonic groups.


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## kalawine

Reformingstudent said:


> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SBC has freemasonry activity in it, Billy Graham is a freemason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
Click to expand...


I used to check out the list that had Billy Graham's name as a Mason on the Net from time to time. But now I can't seem to find it. I know from reading his bio years ago (I'm such a Graham fan that I threw the book away. The book was given to me in the first place or I wouldn't have owned it) that he used a lodge to hold some of his first meetings. While I am by no means a Billy Graham fan nor do I promote or even approve of the Mason Lodge, I do believe that it seems to be misinformation about Graham being a Mason.

This (below) came from a web site that I also don't promote but they seem to be a group that is interested in clearing up misinformation. 

*Reverend Billy Graham - Sometimes referred to as 'America's Minister', Rev. Graham is frequently identified as a Mason by religious intolerants whose ideology is different from his. They feel, apparently, that connecting him with Freemasonry will smear his outstanding abilities and his life-long commitment to his faith. In the earliest days of the world wide web (we seem to recall it was about 1994), a listing of famous Freemasons appeared on the web site of the Grand Lodge of Louisiana, USA. Dr. Graham's name appeared on the list in error based on an assumption by the person who prepared it. (No, it isn't a conspiracy to hide anything! In fact, it's likely that the information may have come from the book by former Mason Jim Shaw who lied that he had received the 33rd Degree of the Scottish Rite with Rev. Graham in attendance. Since Shaw never received that honor, clearly there is nothing to his claim. Read about it here!) Since then, though, unsubstantiated claims have flown about on the internet and one of the most frequent questions we receive dealing with specific individuals concerns Dr. Graham. The simple fact - as substantiated by his organization - is that he is FAR too involved with his ministry to devote time to any other organization. Like other recognizable leaders who are not Masons, Dr. Graham has from time to time been present at Masonic or Masonic-family events. There is a picture sometimes found on the web of him attending a DeMolay public installation of officers. Over his lifetime, Dr. Graham has attended thousands of meetings of groups. To state that Rev. Graham held Masonic membership simply based on his attendance was an assumption by that webmaster of the most absurd proportions. Regretfully, most of those who insist that Rev. Graham is a Mason are those who want to smear both him and the fraternity.

Mason Jeff Armstrong in Illinois has also noted that when Dr. Graham was a student at Wheaton College in Wheaton, Illinois, he rented the Masonic Hall for his weekly sermons. This could have easily caused many to assume that he was somehow connected with Freemasonry not realizing that many Masonic Halls in the US are available for rental purposes (although some jurisdictions prohibit it). 

And there are still a couple of dozen rants left over on the web from religious intolerants who want to name every prominent religious leader as a Mason as if this were somehow a terrible thing. For the record, neither Oral Roberts, Jerry Falwell, or Kenneth Copeland are Masons either. You'll note that NONE of the material making these claims can cite where these men were supposedly members but instead rely on absurd claims that they're "secret" members. No such thing, folks. In fact, you'll note that the claims regarding Copeland all have similar wording. Why? They all came from the fantasy of a single anti-Masonic website created by conspiracy-obsessed Mark Flynn. It definitely proves the old saw that a lie can travel around the world while the truth is still putting on its socks! *
See link Famous Non-Masons


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## Zenas

I am a 1st degree freemason. 

I was converted a few weeks later and have never had contact with it again.


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## Ivan

JM said:


> Any masons on the PB?



Not a mason here and I don't know any.


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## Matthew1034

Reformingstudent said:


> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SBC has freemasonry activity in it, Billy Graham is a freemason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
Click to expand...


My proof is the sum of the circumstancial evidence in light of Scripture. I am not judging the man, but rather reproving his deeds (Eph. 5:11).

Consider the facts, remembering the reality of the ecumenical yoke of the corporate church with the catholic church and hence, all world religions. Please, consider:


*1.* When Billy Graham was on the Phil Donahue show on 10-11-79, he said that pope John Paul II was someone that he could quote with "some real authority." He also said that the world was looking for a spiritual leader and that the pope didn't pull any punches.

*2.* The Star, June 26, 1979. Caption reads, "In this exclusive interview, evangelist Billy Graham hails Pope John Paul II's pilgrimage to Portland as a triumph for Christianity. Dr. Graham and other religious leaders also heap praise on the pontiff for helping to push forward the religious revival worldwide."

*3.* Billy Graham received an honorary doctorate from Catholic priests at Belmont Abbey College in 1967. He called it, "a time when Protestants and Catholics could meet together and greet each other as brothers, whereas 10 years ago they could not". He joked around, "I'm not sure but what this could start me being called "Father Graham".
("Belmont Abbey Confers Honorary Degree," Paul Smith, Gazette staff reporter, The Gastonia Gazette, Gastonia, North Carolina, Nov. 22, 1967).

*4. *According to The Florida Catholic (Sept. 1983) 600 people were turned over to the Catholic religion as a result of the Orlando crusade.

*5. *Billy Graham even had a Catholic priest SUPERVISE the 6,600 counselors for the Denver crusade. Information on the hundreds of Catholics who came forward were sent to a Catholic organization in Denver. (Wilson Ewin, Evangelism: The Trojan Horse of the 1990s).

*6.* An ecumenical advisor to the Catholic religion noted in 1989 that "Those who come forward for counseling during a mission evening in June, if they are Roman Catholic, will be directed to a Roman Catholic 'nurture-group' under Roman Catholic counselors in their home area" (John Ashbrook, New Neutralism II, Mentor, Ohio: Here I Stand Books, 1992, p. 35).

*7.* Billy Graham told the Lutheran Standard in October 1967, 
"I do believe that something happens at the baptism of an infant... we cannot fully understand the mysteries of God, but I believe that a miracle can happen in these children so that they are regenerated, that is, MADE CHRISTIAN, THROUGH INFANT BAPTISM."

*8.* "...I think people have a hard time believing God is going to allow people to burn in literal fire forever. I think the fire that is mentioned in the Bible is a burning thirst for God that can never be quenched." 
The Orlando (Florida) Sentinel for April 10, 1983 

*9.* In 1962, a Roman Catholic bishop of Sao Paulo, Brazil, blessed the people that came forward at the invitation. (Daily Journal, International Falls, Minnesota, Oct. 29, 1963, cited by the New York Times, Nov. 9, 1963).

*10.* In 1959, Graham invited the liberal Bishop James A. Pike to lead in prayer at one of his crusades. Yet Pike said in an Episcopal letter: "Religious myth is one of the avenues of faith and has an important place in the communication of the Gospel." He called the Garden of Eden a myth and said, "The virgin birth... IS A MYTH which churchmen should be free to accept or reject..."

Other ecumenical quotes:

*-* March 8, 1979- National Enquirer- Regarding the Pope, Graham said, "He'll be warmly greeted because he's such a down-to-earth, fun-loving man who creates friends wherever he goes. I firmly feel Pope John Paul II will be the most respected pope of the century and he'll become the moral leader of the world."

*-* National Enquirer, Aug. 9, 1983- Graham gives six steps to being a soul-winner: "1. Set your personal goals high. 2. Appreciate yourself. 3. Make honesty and integrity key words in your life. 4. Be sensitive to the needs and feelings of others. 5. Don't be afraid to make mistakes. 6. Have the courage to change things in your life." Not one word about salvation or the Gospel of Jesus Christ.


There are plenty of quotes not unlike these. The bottom line is that Billy Graham will compromise defending the faith to receive praise from men! He gratefully receives Presidential Awards (George Bush Award for Excellence in Public Service) and an honorary Catholic Degree, but will openly speculate literal hell-fire for the unbeliever and the infallibility of scripture.

*I am building my case.*

Additionally, there was an interview with Robert Schuller on his "Hour of Power" on May 31, 1997. During this interview, Graham states:

"I think everybody that loves Christ or knows Christ, whether they're conscious of it or not, they're members of the Body of Christ. And that's what God is doing today, he's calling people out of the world for His name, whether they come from the Muslim world, Buddhist world, the Christian world, or the *non-believing *world, they are members of the Body of Christ, because they've been called by God. They may not even know the name of Jesus, but they know in their heart that they need something that they don't have and they turn to the only light that they do have and I think they are saved, and that they are going to be in heaven with us."

[video=youtube;TNCnxA91fHE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TNCnxA91fHE[/video]

And I cannot find the video for the rest of the interview, but here is the transcript:

Schuller: What I hear you saying is that it's possible for Jesus Christ to come into human hearts and soul and life even if they've been born into darkness and never had exposure to the Bible. Is that a correct interpretation of what you are saying?

Graham: Yes it is, because I believe that. I've met people in various parts of the world...that have never seen a Bible or heard about a Bible, and never heard of Jesus, but they've believed in their hearts that there was a God.


_Just a brief glance _at the text of Albert G. Mackey's "History of Freemasonry" will reveal that Freemasonry is a religion that is based on mythology and ancient mystery-religions. The modern version of these mythological schools and mystery-religions all promote the "wider-mercy" acceptance of all religions, i.e. all paths lead to god. What fellowship has Christ with Belial, yet Christian and Muslim can come together in banquet and brotherhood? In the name of peace and love in the mode of Freemasonry?

This hardly needs any exposition.

*Furthermore,* Billy offers his endorsement and participation in dominion-oriented religio-political organizations such as the World Council of Churches and the National Council of Churches. There is more to this than "let's love Jesus and get people saved;" yea, "let's bring the religions together, starting with those who 'believe' in Jesus." Globalist policy is not the way the gospel is spread, and the gospel's intention is not to convert governments to "Christian" ideals, i.e. dominionism. This is so rampant in our society and in the corporate church. Once again, this hardly needs any exposition.

I have thus far stated the seeming coincidences between Billy's beliefs and those of freemasonry, namely *1)* unequal yokes with unbelievers, in fact, obvious and intentional support of a whorish-religion [2 Pe. 2:14 "adultery"] *2)* denial of the pillars of the gospel [view on wider-mercy, sola scriptura, judgment, Immanuel, etc] *3)* the love of the world [success, health, wealth, prosperity, praise of men].

*Freemasons are secretive about their enrollment*, so I cannot just post a link to a website that has Billy Graham on the roll-call for a certain lodge. However, there does exist a paper trail:

Billy Graham's books consistently refer to Masons. Billy Graham endorsed the Masonic DeMolay program for youth as God's work. This endorsement by Billy Graham is in a Masonic book that is used to educate people about "the craft" (that means Freemasonry). That book is The Clergy and the Craft and it says that the people who are quoted in it are Masons. (See Haggard, Forrest D. Transactions Missouri Lodge of Research, Vol. No. 27, The Clergy and the Craft, p. 127. where Graham endorses the Masonic youth program.)

In terms of witnesses who have put what they have witnessed in writing we have the following: Jim Shaw, ex-33° Mason -- the highest ranking Freemason to defect to Christianity, writes about Billy Graham being at his 33° initiation ceremony. Huntington House refused to print his book co-authored with Tom McKenney unless they took out Billy Graham's name on pg. 104, and substituted a general description. (See The Deadly Deception, p. 104-105.) Only Freemasons are allowed to attend these initiations. (See The New Age, the official organ of The Supreme Council 33°. Wash., D.C., October 1961, p. 30.)

*I will submit to the board my final evidence:*

William M. Watson - DIRECTOR OF THE BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION. He is a Freemason, and he is also President of Occidental Petroleum Corporation. Chairman of Occidental was Armand Hammer. He also was a member of the advisory council to the Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary in Ft. Worth which had at least three Freemasons on its board of trustees. 

David M. McConnell - DIRECTOR OF THE BILLY GRAHAM EVANGELISTIC ASSOCIATION. He is a Freemason. He was also an U.S. ambassador to the United Nations (1968-69), business associate with Illuminatus Charles Gambrell, in Belk Stores of Charlotte, North Carolina.

Arthur Lee Malory--CO-CHAIRMAN of the BILLY GRAHAM CRUSADE Advisory Committee for the 1973 St. Louis Crusade -- 32° Freemason, deacon in a Southern Baptist Church.


Though I cannot prove with a hyperlink or a published source that Billy Graham is a freemason, I see no reason to consider otherwise. He is the spiritual advisor of presidents, presidents who say that Christians and Muslims worship the same god (G.W. Bush.) He is world-reknown for his number of converts and his friends in high places. He is idolized by Southern Baptists, pastors and church-folk, for his work. Even questioning his freemasonry activity will bring shame on your head in a Southern Baptist church; in fact, pastors will blatantly say, "I cannot judge him." Where is discernment?


I believe what Jesus said, "You will know them by your fruits." The context of this teaching was that we would know false teachers by their fruit, and their fruit are their converts. We know Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons by their converts; bad trees bear bad fruit. And more often than not will a Billy-supporter say that you can be saved by asking Jesus to come into your heart. In his younger days his charisma and enthusiasm for the gospel was respectable, but the departure he has made from the faith should not be overlooked, it in fact should be examined due to the amount of influence he has in the church, which fulfills another teaching of Jesus, "of whom is given much, much will be required."


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## kalawine

Matthew1034 said:


> Reformingstudent said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> SBC has freemasonry activity in it, Billy Graham is a freemason
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> My proof is the sum of the circumstancial evidence in light of Scripture. I am not judging the man, but rather reproving his deeds (Eph. 5:11).
> 
> Consider the facts, remembering the reality of the ecumenical yoke of the corporate church with the catholic church and hence, all world religions. Please, consider: ECT. "
Click to expand...



I wasn't aware of all this info you gave. Please accept my humble "backstep"  and thanks for the info. I knew that Graham was ecumenical and great chums with John Paul. I wasn't aware of all the Masonic connections though I can't say that I am surprised in the least. One thing that annoys me to no end is that people have grown so emotionally attached to him as if he's America's "Uncle Bill." It has become taboo to criticize anything he does or says. You will get either a "Look at all the good he's done" or a "Well, he's old and senile" or a "Well, I like him, ya know?" Good old logic will put Bill in his place any way you look at him. The good he's done? Promoting Catholicism and other such things? (Not to mention enough compromise to write an entire book on) He's old and senile? He began his ecumenical crusade long before he got old. Well, you just LIKE him? Uh... no comment.


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## Matthew1034

kalawine said:


> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Reformingstudent said:
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> My proof is the sum of the circumstancial evidence in light of Scripture. I am not judging the man, but rather reproving his deeds (Eph. 5:11).
> 
> Consider the facts, remembering the reality of the ecumenical yoke of the corporate church with the catholic church and hence, all world religions. Please, consider: ECT. "
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware of all this info you gave. Please accept my humble "backstep"  and thanks for the info. I knew that Graham was ecumenical and great chums with John Paul. I wasn't aware of all the Masonic connections though I can't say that I am surprised in the least. One thing that annoys me to no end is that people have grown so emotionally attached to him as if he's America's "Uncle Bill." It has become taboo to criticize anything he does or says. You will get either a "Look at all the good he's done" or a "Well, he's old and senile" or a "Well, I like him, ya know?" Good old logic will put Bill in his place any way you look at him. The good he's done? Promoting Catholicism and other such things? (Not to mention enough compromise to write an entire book on) He's old and senile? He began his ecumenical crusade long before he got old. Well, you just LIKE him? Uh... no comment.
Click to expand...


I lovingly accept your backstep brother!, though I meant no form of retaliation in my post. 

And you're right; it is indeed annoying when a person's emotional attachment dictates their reaction to what you have to say about the Lord's wonderful works - I know you can empathize with me.

We cannot unknow what we know, we can just honor all men, love the brotherhood, and hate evil.


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## kalawine

Matthew1034 said:


> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> My proof is the sum of the circumstancial evidence in light of Scripture. I am not judging the man, but rather reproving his deeds (Eph. 5:11).
> 
> Consider the facts, remembering the reality of the ecumenical yoke of the corporate church with the catholic church and hence, all world religions. Please, consider: ECT. "
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't aware of all this info you gave. Please accept my humble "backstep"  and thanks for the info. I knew that Graham was ecumenical and great chums with John Paul. I wasn't aware of all the Masonic connections though I can't say that I am surprised in the least. One thing that annoys me to no end is that people have grown so emotionally attached to him as if he's America's "Uncle Bill." It has become taboo to criticize anything he does or says. You will get either a "Look at all the good he's done" or a "Well, he's old and senile" or a "Well, I like him, ya know?" Good old logic will put Bill in his place any way you look at him. The good he's done? Promoting Catholicism and other such things? (Not to mention enough compromise to write an entire book on) He's old and senile? He began his ecumenical crusade long before he got old. Well, you just LIKE him? Uh... no comment.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I lovingly accept your backstep brother!, though I meant no form of retaliation in my post.
> 
> And you're right; it is indeed annoying when a person's emotional attachment dictates their reaction to what you have to say about the Lord's wonderful works - I know you can empathize with me.
> 
> We cannot unknow what we know, we can just honor all men, love the brotherhood, and hate evil.
Click to expand...



I lovingly accept your backstep brother!, though I meant no form of retaliation in my post. 

Yea, I didn't think you did


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## Pergamum

I am still technically a Master Mason. I had someone offer to pay for me to get my 33rd degree Scottish rite.

I resigned when I was saved and wrote a letter of resignation to the local, state and national chapter, but none of them accepted it and a distant family friend still pays my dues to keep me on the rolls


_May my body be buried in the rough sands of the sea where the tide ebbs and flows twicein twenty four hours should I knowingly or willingly violate this, my solemn obligation, as a Master Mason.....blah blah yadda yadda..._


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## DMcFadden

I have heard that the SBC has an unusually large number of ministers who are/have been Freemasons. One list cites the following (all with significant documentation):

B.H. Carroll 
David E. Moore 
George W. Truett 
J.B. Lawrence 
James C. Bryant 
James Huckins 
James P. Wesberry 
John T. Christian 
Joseph Samuel Murrow 
L.R. Scarborough 
Louie D. Newton 
Richard A. McLemore 
Robert E. Baylor 
W.T. Conner 
W.W. Barnes 
William R. White 
William Tryon 
William W. Hamilton 

Another source alleges: "A 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)."

Evidently there is a cultural component as well. I do not know a single pastor in SoCal who is a Mason.


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## Matthew1034

DMcFadden said:


> I have heard that the SBC has an unusually large number of ministers who are/have been Freemasons. One list cites the following (all with significant documentation):
> 
> B.H. Carroll
> David E. Moore
> George W. Truett
> J.B. Lawrence
> James C. Bryant
> James Huckins
> James P. Wesberry
> John T. Christian
> Joseph Samuel Murrow
> L.R. Scarborough
> Louie D. Newton
> Richard A. McLemore
> Robert E. Baylor
> W.T. Conner
> W.W. Barnes
> William R. White
> William Tryon
> William W. Hamilton
> 
> Another source alleges: "A 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)."
> 
> Evidently there is a cultural component as well. I do not know a single pastor in SoCal who is a Mason.




37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth.

It is catastrophic that so many SBC pastors are FM, and not to apologia, but what is catastrophic is that freemasonry may in fact be cultural and lower-degree freemason SBC pastors may be ignorant to what (and what god) is really behind the G.

On the idea of culture, my pastor's wife's father was a mason and she was given the title of "eastern star" or some words similar to that when she was younger although it appears to have no substance for her now.

Its almost as if being raised FM puts your hope and identity in masonic symbolism rather than the cross...


----------



## Reformingstudent

*Graham bashing*

I am not defending Mr. Grahams position or what he believes. I, like many others have not seen this information about Graham before so my question about having proof of his involvement in the Lodge has been met to some degree. That said, I would like to make it clear that just because I asked to see proof of his involvement in Masonry does not constitute my overall endorsement of the man or what he teaches/preaches.


----------



## Matthew1034

Reformingstudent said:


> I am not defending Mr. Grahams position or what he believes. I, like many others have not seen this information about Graham before so my question about having proof of his involvement in the Lodge has been met to some degree. That said, I would like to make it clear that just because I asked to see proof of his involvement in Masonry does not constitute my overall endorsement of the man or what he teaches/preaches.



I want you to know I was not replying to anyone in particular, but was addressing the board in response to your question. If someone defends or exposes Billy Graham, let the reasoning be sound and be meant to inform not to bash him or criticise an opposing view.

I do publicly apologize to the board if my post sounded as if I was surprised everyone in the world didn't know those things about Billy Graham, I was rather posting in confidence. I hate pride and wish to instead encourage and edify and equip each other for the work of the gospel, even the work of exposing the unfruitful works of darkness.

I hate not the Catholic or SBCer or the unbeliever, but am zealous in defending the faith in the limited ways I can.

  I love you!


----------



## Pergamum

I do think there is a cultural component. Southern small town SBC pastors often go to the lodge. It is a haven for do-goodism and gives an opportunity to help in community events. And there is a tip of the hat to religion and most FM say that Freemasonry and Christianity are compatible. So it look sinnocous at first.

Of course, blood oathes and weird initiation rites should alert one. And a bunch of fez-wearing folks who have kissed the Koran and put on circuses ARE, in fact, weird.


_May my body be burned to ashes and those ashes scattered to the fourwinds of heaven should I knowingly or willingly violate this my solemn obligation....blah blah blah yadda yadda yadda..._


----------



## Scott1

> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?



There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask. 

The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.


----------



## Matthew1034

Scott1 said:


> There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask.
> 
> The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.



Are speculation and deceit synonymous? Where do we draw the line?


----------



## larryjf

I believe that Billy Graham's ministry has stated that he is NOT nor has ever been a mason.


----------



## gene_mingo

Scott1 said:


> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask.
> 
> The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.
Click to expand...


Like I said previously this has been done.

here is the info from the masons mouth:
Sec. 3, Anti-masonry Frequently Asked Questions



> Billy Graham?
> The Reverend Billy Graham is not a freemason. The following correspondence to a reader of the Cutting Edge Ministry makes this very clear:
> Subject: Freemason
> Date: Wed, 16 Jul 97 11:23:21 -0500
> From: [email protected] (Don Kinde)
> Thank you for your e-mail message. We understand your concern about rumors that Mr. Graham is in some way associated with Freemasonry. The reports are erroneous — though we continue to hear them. Mr. Graham is not, has not been and does not expect ever to be involved in Freemasonry. Your help in keeping the record as accurate as possible would be much appreciated.
> Sincerely,
> Don Kinde
> Christian Guidance Department
> Billy Graham Evangelistic Association
> One possible source of this rumour was Composite Lodge No. 595’s website in Santa Monica, California, USA. The brother maintaining the site reproduced a list of famous freemasons that mistakenly included the Reverend Billy Graham’s name. Once the error was brought to his attention, the list was amended on December 28, 1996. Other masonic websites unwittingly reproduced the list and several years passed before most, if not all of them, were corrected.
> The late Jim Shaw claimed that Billy Graham was present when he was made a 33rd Degree freemason. This is only one of Shaw’s many lies exposed in such publications as Is it True What They Say About Freemasonry?
> On 13 June, 1997 anti-mason and fundamentalist Christian, Steve Van Nattan went on a syndicated Christian Fundamentalist radio talk show, "The Cutting Edge," to announce his "proof" that Graham was not only a freemason but that the freemasons were trying to hide his membership. The Cutting Edge Ministry subsequentially accepted the denial issued by Billy Graham’s office.



I am not sure how your evidence points to Billy Grahams involvement in masonry Matthew. Roman Catholics are forbidden from join the masonic lodge.




> Clement XII, In Eminenti, 28 April 1738
> 
> This constitution was the first public written attack by the papacy against Masonry. In In Eminenti the principal objections to Freemasonry given were: that it was open to men of all religions; that there were oaths taken; that Masons denied clerical authority, and that Masons met in secret. Pope Clement forbade Masonic membership by Catholics and directed the "Inquisitors of Heretical Depravity" to take action against Catholics who became Masons or assisted Freemasonry in any way. He ordered excommunication as punishment for those who defied his ban.
> 
> Benedict XIV, Providas, 18 May 1751
> 
> This constitution confirmed In Eminenti and condemned Freemasonry on the grounds of its naturalism, demand for oaths, secrecy, religious indifferentism, possible threat to the church and state. It specifically forbids Roman Catholics from seeking membership in any Masonic group.
> 
> Pius VII, Ecclesiam A Jesu Christo, 13 September 1821
> 
> The constitution Ecclesiam specifies excommunication for Freemasons and gives as reason for the censure the oath bound secrecy of the society and their conspiracies against the church and state. It also links Freemasonry with the Society of the Carbonari, known as the "Charcoal Burners", who at that time were active in Italy and were believed to be a revolutionary group.
> 
> Leo XII, Quo Gravioria Mala, 13 March 1825
> 
> This constitution restated the Roman Catholic Church's objection to Freemasonry as a secret society, with oath-bound secrecy, which conspires against church and state.
> 
> Pius VIII, Traditi Humilitati, 24 May 1829
> 
> This encyclical is considered by some Roman Catholic authorities to be an anti-Masonic polemic. It warned against a secret society whose "cunning purpose is to...lead the students along the path of Baal." It called for Catholics to "...eradicate those secret societies of factious men who, completely opposed to God and to princes, are wholly dedicated to bringing about the fall of the Church, the destruction of kingdoms, and disorder in the whole world." It also makes reference to the anti-Masonic pronouncements of previous popes.
> 
> Litteris Altero, 25 March 1830
> 
> This apostolic letter reiterated earlier papal condemnations of Freemasonry. It specifically condemns the influence of Freemasonry in education.
> 
> Gregory XVI, Mirari Vos, 15 August 1832
> 
> This was an encyclical on liberalism and religious indifferentism. Religious indifferentism is defined as "... the fraud of the wicked who claim that it is possible to obtain the eternal salvation of the soul by the profession of any kind of religion, as long as morality is maintained." This encyclical does not mention Masonry, but religious indifferentism is one of the charges often leveled against Freemasonry in papal pronouncements. Some Roman Catholic authorities identify this pronouncement as anti-Masonic.
> 
> Pius IX, Qui Pluribus, 9 November 1846
> 
> This encyclical calls for Roman Catholics to fight against heresy. It decries those who put human reason above faith, and who believe in human progress. Strangely, it also attacks secret "sects" and "crafty" Bible societies who "force on people of all kinds, even the uneducated, gifts of the Bible." This encyclical also calls "perverse" religious indifferentism. While not mentioning Masonry directly, it criticizes those it does not identify for those same faults that the previous papal pronouncements imputed to Freemasonry, and is regarded as an anti-Masonic pronouncement by some Catholic sources.
> 
> .
> 
> Quibus Quantisque Malis, 20 April 1849
> 
> This pronouncement is referred to by some authorities as anti-Masonic, but is unavailable in English translation.
> 
> Quanta Cura, 8 December 1864
> 
> This is an Encyclical condemning "current errors", including naturalism. It calls liberty of conscience and worship the "liberty of perdition". It attacks communism and socialism directly, but does not mention Freemasonry. Quanta Cura is referred to by some authorities as an encyclical dealing with Freemasonry. An attack on naturalism is usually understood to be an attack on Freemasonry.
> 
> Multiplices Inter, 25 September 1865
> 
> This is an address made by Pope Pius IX condemning Freemasonry and other secret societies. In it, he accuses Masonic associations of conspiracy against the church, God and civil society. He further attributes revolutions and uprisings to Masonic activities, and denounces secret oaths, clandestine meetings and Masonic penalties.
> 
> Apostolicae Sedis Moderatoni, 12 October 1869
> 
> This is a constitution relating to Canon Law. It clarifies the procedure regarding censure in Canon Law, changes some Canons and establishes a new list of censures.Some authorities state the document relates to Freemasonry,but it is unavailable in English translation.
> 
> Etsi Multa, 21 November 1873
> 
> In the encyclical Etsi Multa, Pope Pius condemned Masonry by stating that Masonic groups were among the "sects" from which "....the synagogue of Satan is formed ...."
> 
> Leo XIII, Etsi Nos, 15 February 1882
> 
> This papal encyclical speaks about the conditions then prevalent in Italy and refers to a "pernicious sect" at war with Jesus Christ, which sect he blames for civil unrest in Italy.Some Roman Catholic authorities identify this as a reference to Freemasonry.
> 
> Humanum Genus, 20 April 1884
> 
> The encyclical Humanum Genus is considered to contain one of the most vicious attacks on Freemasonry of any papal pronouncements. It states that "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree produce good fruit...the Masonic sect produces fruits that are pernicious and of the bitterest savor." It goes on to say that Freemasonry's goal is the destruction of the Roman Catholic Church, and that Freemasonry and the Roman Catholic Church are adversaries. Pope Leo further stated that many Freemasons are unaware of the ultimate goals of Freemasonry and should not be considered partners in the criminal acts perpetrated by Freemasonry. He also condemns the naturalism of Freemasonry, by which is meant the belief that "human nature and human reason ought in all things to be mistress and guide...they allow no dogma of religion or truth which cannot be understood by the human intelligence, nor any teacher who ought to be believed by reason of his authority." It is interesting to note that Brother Albert Pike stated that this encyclical was a "...declaration of war, and the signal for a crusade, against the rights of man...."
> 
> Officio Sanctissimo, 22 December 1887
> 
> This is an encyclical epistle concerning Bavaria and includes a warning against Freemasonry. It states that Freemasonry is a "contagion", and is a "sect of darkness".
> 
> Dall'Alto Dell'Apostolico Seggio, 15 October 1890
> 
> This encyclical, also known as Ab Apostolici, dealt with Freemasonry in Italy. It condemned the contemporary course of public affairs in Italy as the realization of the "Masonic programme". This alleged "programme" was said to involve a "deadly hatred of the Church", the abolition of religious instruction in schools and the absolute independence of civil society from clerical influence.
> 
> Inimica Vis, 18 December 1892
> 
> This encyclical epistle to the bishops of Italy addresses Freemasonry in Italy. It reiterates the urgent necessity of combating the ends of Freemasonry, and entreats the bishops to work to convert victims of Freemasonry. It complains that some Roman Catholic clergy are entering into or cooperating with Freemasonry.
> 
> Custodi di Qualla Fede, 18 December 1892
> 
> This is an encyclical epistle to the people of Italy attacking Freemasonry. It tells how to work against Freemasonry in ways such as guarding Catholic homes against infiltration, setting up Catholic schools and mutual aid societies, and establishing a Catholic press. It contains virulent criticism of Freemasonry.
> 
> Praeclara, 20 June 1894
> 
> Praeclara is an apostolic letter to the rulers and nations of the world which calls for union with the church of Rome, and which warns against Freemasonry.
> 
> Annum Ingressi, 18 March 1902
> 
> Annum Ingressi is an apostolic epistle to the bishops of the world reviewing the 25 years of his pontificate. It also urges resistance to Freemasonry.



I have seen many discussion about freemasonry fall apart because of false claims about who were members.


----------



## JBaldwin

Someone mentioned earlier that you had to be asked to be freemason. Around here, apparently, they ask you, because I know several individuals who have been asked to be freemasons. One man that we know was being considered for a deacon in his church (Baptist). He was then told that if wanted to actually become a deacon, he would also have to join the freemasons. 

I am constantly shocked at how prevelent freemasonry is in South Carolina. No one talks about it, but even in the smallest towns where there is nothing but a post office and store, there is also a masonic lodge. I am also surprised at how many pastors and church leaders are wearing masonic rings or have the masonic symbol on their cars.


----------



## JM

JohnGill said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's interesting...you're not supposed to be "invited" to become a freemason. They can give you material, but they are supposed to wait for you to ask them to join.
> 
> I was told that when in a freemason meeting you are not allowed to mention Jesus...that's enough for me. If they don't want my Savior they don't want me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was asked to join as well. My grandfather was a freemason. I've heard some wild stories about it and don't really care to join.
Click to expand...


My great grandfather and uncles were masons, maybe that's why I've been asked to join.


----------



## larryjf

From To Be One Ask One  WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN



> WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN?
> 
> NO! Hopefully, if the concepts and principles of Masonry as enumerated in this folder interest you, you will not need to be asked to join. You must ask to become a Freemason. Unfortunately, many men who would like to become Masons never do because they are unaware of the above-mentioned requirement (that it be of your own free will and accord, and you must ask to join the Fraternity).



From WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY



> WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY?
> 
> You may be surprised to know that the friend who asked you to read this literature WILL NOT ASK YOU TO PETITION THE MASONIC FRA*TERNITY FOR MEMBERSHIP. Contrary to popu*lar belief, membership in Freemasonry is not by invitation. Instead, if you seek membership, you must do so on your own initiative by making your wishes known to a member of the fraternity



From How Do You Become A Freemason?



> The true behind joining Freemasonry is that to join you must first ask. No person should ever been asked to join Freemasonry, the first step should be made by the person interested in joining.


----------



## Scott1

I realize this post is not about Mr Graham but only to supplement what Mr Mingo has reported. We really need to keep the Ninth Commandment in view here and apply charity, especially toward those in the household of faith, especially toward teaching elders here.

The ministry cephasministry.com (I gather is much opposed to secret fraternities, etc) reports their response to whether Mr Graham is a Mason from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association:





"We have received this response from Don Kinde, answering these three questions; and then Mr. Kinde went a bit further in supplying information. In this response, Don Kinde of the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association categorically denied that Mr. Graham was a Freemason. We reprint this email in its entirety."



> "Dear ----,
> 
> Thank you for your e-mail message regarding Freemasonry. My answer was to the question of Dr. Graham's view of and involvement with Freemasonry. I will respond to your three questions:
> 
> 1. BGEA does not have an official position on Freemasonry. Mr. Graham's response that he is not, has not, and does not expect ever to be involved in Freemasonry is as close to any policy that we have.
> 
> 2. Freemasons do not have compatible beliefs with fundamental Christianity.
> 
> 3. We would not suggest that a person take an oath of Freemasonry.
> 
> ----, let me share a bit more with you for your information. Many Christians do not believe that a Christian should be a member of a secret lodge, and ministers often strongly oppose such membership. At the same time, it must be recognized that there are Christians who are members of lodges. As to the degree of their commitment to Christ as Lord, we would not be able to judge; only the Lord knows the heart.
> 
> As we have said, Mr. Graham is not a member of any lodge. Part of his conviction is that a proper fulfillment of one's obligations to the church should fulfill any need that one has for this type of organization. All too often lodges and fraternal organizations compete with the exercise of one's gifts in the church, and take up time that could be more wisely invested in
> 
> one's family. If a husband and wife are not in mutual agreement concerning membership in a lodge, a serious rift can occur in their relationship because of the nature of fraternal organizations and involvement with them.
> 
> If a lodge or club denies the Triune God, or the deity and atoning sacrifice of our Lord Jesus Christ, or teaches that we can find salvation through our own meritorious good deeds, or interferes in any way with the service of a Christian to his Lord or to his church, that organization should have no appeal for a Christian. We are expected by God to use wisdom in deciding whether or not to be a member of any organization. The Bible says, "If any of you lacks wisdom, 'he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him' (James 1:5)."
> 
> "Regarding the issue of beliefs, in A CONCISE DICTIONARY OF CULTS & RELIGIONS
> 
> by William Watson (Moody, 1991), the following information about Freemasonry is given:
> 
> Also known as Masons and Masonic Lodge. . . . 'Teaches that all religions are one and that there are many gods who are considered equal to Jesus. Masonic literature denies that Jesus is the only savior of the world and rejects Christ's death on the cross as God's sole remedy for sin. Salvation depends on works, not faith in God. The sacred books of many religions are regarded equally as revelations from God. Other helpful books are: MASONS: WHAT THEY BELIEVE by Harold J. Berry and THE FACTS ON THE MASONIC LODGE: DOES MASONRY CONFLICT WITH THE CHRISTIAN FAITH? by John Ankerberg and John Weldon. You may find these at most Christian bookstores. You may also want to contact Free the Masons Ministries, P. O. Box 1077, Issaquah, Washington 98027, for further information."
> 
> "May the Lord bless you richly and give you His wisdom and discernment as you share in His kingdom work. We pray that the Lord will enrich your life, filling you with all joy and peace in believing."
> 
> "Sincerely,
> 
> Don Kinde
> 
> Christian Guidance Department
> 
> Billy Graham Evangelistic Association"


----------



## JM

larryjf said:


> From To Be One Ask One* WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WILL I BE ASKED TO JOIN?
> 
> NO! Hopefully, if the concepts and principles of Masonry as enumerated in this folder interest you, you will not need to be asked to join. You must ask to become a Freemason. Unfortunately, many men who would like to become Masons never do because they are unaware of the above-mentioned requirement (that it be of your own free will and accord, and you must ask to join the Fraternity).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> From WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> WHY WAS I NOT ASKED TO JOIN THE MASONIC FRATERNITY?
> 
> You may be surprised to know that the friend who asked you to read this literature WILL NOT ASK YOU TO PETITION THE MASONIC FRA*TERNITY FOR MEMBERSHIP. Contrary to popu*lar belief, membership in Freemasonry is not by invitation. Instead, if you seek membership, you must do so on your own initiative by making your wishes known to a member of the fraternity
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> From How Do You Become A Freemason?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The true behind joining Freemasonry is that to join you must first ask. No person should ever been asked to join Freemasonry, the first step should be made by the person interested in joining.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


That's interesting and all but I was asked to join. I was told many things of traditional masonary have changed due to the population getting older and few young people "asking to become one."


----------



## DeoOpt

The Shriners: Allahs Islamic Cult Inside the Masonic Lodge: To most Americans, the Shriners are a wonderful organization. They see men wearing the strange "fez" hat and gleefully riding tiny motor scooters in parades. They see Shriners at circuses dressed as clowns, delighting youngsters. They hear of the boisterous Shriners conventions and are told of the charitable acts of this group—its burns hospitals and so forth. But there is a darker side to the Shriners, and Texe Marrs uncovers it in this revealing investigative expose. You'll learn that the Shriners are Knights Templar, 13th degree York Rite Masons or 32nd degree Scottish Rite Masons. You'll discover the hideous blood oath to a pagan deity taken by these men in a bizarre and occultic initiation rite. You'll discover also the meaning of The Shrine and the significance of the "fez" cap. You'll find out why the elements in the logo, or symbol, of the Shriners include an Arabic curved sword, upside down horns, a pentacle star, and an image of the ancient goddess of Egypt. This audiotape will enlighten you about what goes on behind the closed doors of the Shrine Temples. It will equip you with the knowledge and information you need to unmask this devilish organization and help men who are entrapped in its devilish clutches escape.
Who founded the Shriners? Did this group come out of the spiritualism (necromancy) movement called the "13 Clubs?" 
Is the story of Batman and Robin and Gotham City based upon the Shrine Temple's alleged war against "evil-doers?" 
Why does every Shriner attest that he is "a noble of the mystic shrine who has traveled the Arabic path?" 
Does the red "fez" hat signify the bloody massacre of Christians by Muslim hordes during the crusades? 
Can a faithful Christian be a Shriner? Does the Shrine blaspheme the Lord Jesus by honoring a false pagan god and his "prophet?" 
What diabolical oath is taken by every Shriner? Does the Shriner pledge loyalty and fealty to Allah and Mohammed? Does he kneel in submission before the Koran, the Muslim scriptures? What disgusting acts does the initiate engage in? 
Is there a connection between the Order of the Mystic Shrine and the infamous Illuminati? 
What famous men are known to be—or have been—Masons who were initiated into the Order of the Shriners? Do their ranks include the late Presidents Franklin Roosevelt and Harry Truman, former President Gerald Ford, country singer Roy Clark, and the late comedians Red Skelton and Danny Thomas? 
How about the Prince Hall Shrine, made up exclusively of Afro-Americans and numbering in its Masonic ranks such men as Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall, the Reverend Jesse Jackson, and band leader Lionel Hampton? 
What are the concealed goals of the Shriners and of international Freemasonry?


----------



## JM

From Larry's links:



> IS FREEMASONRY A RELIGION?
> 
> NO! Religion can best teach a man faith, hope, and charity. Freemasonry only endeavors to reinforce these teachings. Masonry is not a religion nor is it a substitute for or a rival of any doctrine. It is an aid to religious development in that it builds character and stresses righteousness. It is significant that many clergymen are active members of the Fraternity. A Mason respects and is tolerant of that which is sacred to his brother, be he Christian, Mohammedan, Jew, or of some other faith in God.



I was given the literature and then asked, "hey, you should join and I'll be your recommend" the first time and even told the membership fee. 



> WHY DID MY FRIEND ASK ME TO READ THIS LITERATURE?
> 
> Your friend is a Master Mason and is very proud of the Masonic Fraternity. He is also very proud of the fine character of its members. He sin*cerely believes that you possess the qualities for membership in the Fraternity and that you should, at least, have the opportunity to know more about it.
> 
> By taking a few moments to read this litera*ture, you will be better informed about Free*masonry. You will also understand that those who seek membership must do so on their own accord. Unfortunately, without this understand*ing, many fine individuals have not enjoyed the special rewards of membership in Freemasonry.
> 
> If, after reading this material, you have any questions or desire to know more about Free*masonry, your friend will be p leased to answer your questions or to obtain the answers for you.
> 
> Whether or not you should decide to in*quire about membership in Freemasonry, you can be certain that you have a special friend within the masonic fraternity who thinks very highly of you. Please consider the fact that he shared this literature with you as a message of kindness from FRIEND TO FRIEND!



The second time I was asked to flat out to join.



> No person _should_ ever been asked to join Freemasonry, the first step should be made by the person interested in joining.


----------



## larryjf

JM said:


> That's interesting and all but I was asked to join. I was told many things of traditional masonary have changed due to the population getting older and few young people "asking to become one."



Don't get me wrong...i'm not trying to say that you weren't asked. I was also asked to join. It's just that asking folks to join goes against their rules.


----------



## pilgrim3970

My grandad was a 33rd degree mason as well as a Shriner. Shortly before he died, he renounced both and instructed my dad to remove the masonic symbol from his head stone.


----------



## JM

larryjf said:


> JM said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's interesting and all but I was asked to join. I was told many things of traditional masonary have changed due to the population getting older and few young people "asking to become one."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Don't get me wrong...i'm not trying to say that you weren't asked. I was also asked to join. It's just that asking folks to join goes against their rules.
Click to expand...


I might stop in and get a tour of the building and then witness to them.


----------



## jwithnell

Over the years I've pondered anything that might exclude my true brothers and sisters in Christ. I can understand professional associations, and perhaps meritorious organizations, but fraternal ones with secret rites seem way over the top. I first started thinking about this in college with all the sororities and fraternities ....


----------



## Thomas2007

John Quincy Adams has a very good book on Google books about freemasonry entitled "Letters on the Masonic Institution," following the founding era of the country. He was anti-masonic and very vocally opposed the organization, this work is really quite good.

I think most people today have no conception of the organization as a religious cult, they see it as merely a fraternity that espouses good morals and engages in good works. The sad thing, to me, though is that they really do have some good works operating numerous children's hospitals that provide some of the best care for orthopedics and burns in the country - and they are totally free. Why this is sad to me is that these types of works should be done by the Church.


----------



## Backwoods Presbyterian




----------



## JM

The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.


----------



## jwithnell

On the "good works" note, my grandfather was a way-up-there Mason, so my grandmother was able to spend the last years of her life in a wonderful graduated-care facility that looked more like a college campus than a nursing home.

From an historical perspective, I've often wondered how George Washington could so involve himself in the Masons, yet he appears to be an orthodox believer based on the sentiments expressed in his writings.


----------



## Mushroom

If you want to see something interesting about George Washington, Google Earth Mt. Vernon, then scan over to the George Washington Masonic Temple not far away in Alexandria, VA.

He evidently was quite enamored of freemasonry, all inferences of orthodoxy aside. He did attend worship services regularly, but from what I've read, never partook of the sacraments. I thought that a bit strange.


----------



## kalawine

JM said:


> The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.



Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.


----------



## JM

kalawine said:


> JM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.
Click to expand...


That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!


----------



## Mushroom

JM said:


> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!
Click to expand...

Oh man! Now you're gonna have me all paranoid when somebody brings home a bucket....


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot

JM said:


> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JM said:
> 
> 
> 
> The guy that asked me to come out said they have a few drinks and smoke cigars.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!
Click to expand...


_So I Married An Axe Murderer_:



> Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
> Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
> Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went *** up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
> Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
> Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly...!


----------



## Gloria

kalawine said:


> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard that the SBC has an unusually large number of ministers who are/have been Freemasons. One list cites the following (all with significant documentation):
> 
> B.H. Carroll
> David E. Moore
> George W. Truett
> J.B. Lawrence
> James C. Bryant
> James Huckins
> James P. Wesberry
> John T. Christian
> Joseph Samuel Murrow
> L.R. Scarborough
> Louie D. Newton
> Richard A. McLemore
> Robert E. Baylor
> W.T. Conner
> W.W. Barnes
> William R. White
> William Tryon
> William W. Hamilton
> 
> Another source alleges: "A 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)."
> 
> Evidently there is a cultural component as well. I do not know a single pastor in SoCal who is a Mason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth.
> 
> It is catastrophic that so many SBC pastors are FM, and not to apologia, but what is catastrophic is that freemasonry may in fact be cultural and lower-degree freemason SBC pastors may be ignorant to what (and what god) is really behind the G.
> 
> On the idea of culture, my pastor's wife's father was a mason and she was given the title of "eastern star" or something when she was younger although it has no substance for her now.
> 
> Its almost as if being raised FM puts your hope and identity in masonic symbolism rather than the cross...
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Living just outside of the city of Meridian (the Masonry Capitol of Mississippi) and having attended SBC's here (been a member of a couple in the past) I can attest to the fact that there are many churches here that are overrun with Freemasons and virtually run by them. I could also drive you around this county and show you several SBC's and a couple of Methodists churches that literally have the lodge directly across the road from them... FACING them! You can look at some of them and see very obviously that the same people who built the church buildings built the lodge across the street. Two in particular that come to mind look to have been built from the very same building materials. I could even take you to a "black" church... (Sorry folks ... we still have them here ... not my fault!) ... but I could take you to a "black" church that literally has a steel plaque boasting that the "cornerstone" was placed there by a certain lodge. To my black (Colored? African American?) friends, please don't think I'm picking on you. The two largest and most ancient (one is a historical landmark) graveyards in town ("white" churches) have the Masonic symbols on almost every tombstone! Sometimes I wonder if that isn't the very reason that this old town began to stop growing many years ago.
Click to expand...


"Colored"? What year is this?


----------



## kalawine

Gloria said:


> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Matthew1034 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth.
> 
> It is catastrophic that so many SBC pastors are FM, and not to apologia, but what is catastrophic is that freemasonry may in fact be cultural and lower-degree freemason SBC pastors may be ignorant to what (and what god) is really behind the G.
> 
> On the idea of culture, my pastor's wife's father was a mason and she was given the title of "eastern star" or something when she was younger although it has no substance for her now.
> 
> Its almost as if being raised FM puts your hope and identity in masonic symbolism rather than the cross...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Living just outside of the city of Meridian (the Masonry Capitol of Mississippi) and having attended SBC's here (been a member of a couple in the past) I can attest to the fact that there are many churches here that are overrun with Freemasons and virtually run by them. I could also drive you around this county and show you several SBC's and a couple of Methodists churches that literally have the lodge directly across the road from them... FACING them! You can look at some of them and see very obviously that the same people who built the church buildings built the lodge across the street. Two in particular that come to mind look to have been built from the very same building materials. I could even take you to a "black" church... (Sorry folks ... we still have them here ... not my fault!) ... but I could take you to a "black" church that literally has a steel plaque boasting that the "cornerstone" was placed there by a certain lodge. To my black (Colored? African American?) friends, please don't think I'm picking on you. The two largest and most ancient (one is a historical landmark) graveyards in town ("white" churches) have the Masonic symbols on almost every tombstone! Sometimes I wonder if that isn't the very reason that this old town began to stop growing many years ago.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> "Colored"? What year is this?
Click to expand...


LOL My point exactly! I've lost touch! What the heck am I supposed to say?  I've already been corrected about "Oriental!" LOL


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## larryjf

Kalawine,

It's inappropriate to take God's name in vain ...even just the initials.


----------



## kalawine

larryjf said:


> Kalawine,
> 
> It's inappropriate to take God's name in vain ...even just the initials.



Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.


----------



## larryjf

kalawine said:


> Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.



I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.

I appreciate you editing the post.


----------



## kalawine

larryjf said:


> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.
> 
> I appreciate you editing the post.
Click to expand...


I was MORE than glad to edit the post and I thank you for pointing my sin to me because that will keep me from using it in the future. I appreciate your boldness and Godliness my dear Brother!


----------



## Solus Christus

kalawine said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Please pardon me! I get carried away sometimes when I'm kidding around and I really didn't stop to think about what I was doing. You can believe me or not but I've seen that one used many times and I don't think I've ever used it before now. Of course, that doesn't excuse my doing it now. I truly do repent and ask for your forgiveness as well as the board's and of course, my Lord's.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.
> 
> I appreciate you editing the post.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I was MORE than glad to edit the post and I thank you for pointing my sin to me because that will keep me from using it in the future. I appreciate your boldness and Godliness my dear Brother!
Click to expand...


First off, my apologies for this quick thread-jack but I think it's important to point out this exchange. Both kalawine and larryjf, I commend both of your actions here. Too many times people are guilty of not doing the right thing. Thank you both for this Godly example of behavior. It is times like this that I'm thankful for being part of this Puritanboard community. May God bless you both! 

_We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of Freemasonry. Discuss._


----------



## kalawine

Solus Christus said:


> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> I certainly forgive you. And i also understand how easy it is to get caught up in the moment...especially with internet acronyms.
> 
> I appreciate you editing the post.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was MORE than glad to edit the post and I thank you for pointing my sin to me because that will keep me from using it in the future. I appreciate your boldness and Godliness my dear Brother!
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> First off, my apologies for this quick thread-jack but I think it's important to point out this exchange. Both kalawine and larryjf, I commend both of your actions here. Too many times people are guilty of not doing the right thing. Thank you both for this Godly example of behavior. It is times like this that I'm thankful for being part of this Puritanboard community. May God bless you both!
> 
> _We now return you to your regularly scheduled topic of Freemasonry. Discuss._
Click to expand...


Thank you my Brother! I have been trying lately to maintain a humble attitude. I believe that it is a hard thing for each and every one of us as we are fallen in nature and our first reaction is normally to defend ourselves. Please keep me in your prayers that I will/can continue in my humility. I have also been VERY blessed by my Brother, larryJF, because if he was just an arrogant busy body he could have wallowed as a victor in my sin. Instead he accepted my acceptance of his correction and went on about his way. I believe that is a sign that he was truly correcting me as a brother and not as an arrogant know-it-all who simply wanted to win an argument. I have found myself on many occasions wanting just to win arguments. Thank God for his grace that he is pulling me out of that hole! May he continue in his gift of grace for without it I don't have a chance!


----------



## regenerated

I believe freemasonry to be a 'salvation by works' theology.
It is highly motivated by moralistic duties performed with a legalistic attitude.
This facade is masqueraded as a secret religion for the good of their fellow man.

count me OUT.

Give me Christ alone by Grace alone by Faith alone.

R


----------



## Zenas

With the general themes in my frat and the themes I have observed in the Masons, I'm beginning to think that all secret fraternities were started by the same guy with an obsession with the Knights Templar and the Crusades. 

I bet it's the same guy who wrote National Treasure.


----------



## Zenas

Gloria said:


> "Colored"? What year is this?




[oxymoron]I'm colorless because I'm white.[/oxymoron]


----------



## Dieter Schneider

Can anyone from the PB you guess from my handshake whether I am a mason?


----------



## CDM

Matthew1034 said:


> DMcFadden said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have heard that the SBC has an unusually large number of ministers who are/have been Freemasons. One list cites the following (all with significant documentation):
> 
> B.H. Carroll
> David E. Moore
> George W. Truett
> J.B. Lawrence
> James C. Bryant
> James Huckins
> James P. Wesberry
> John T. Christian
> Joseph Samuel Murrow
> L.R. Scarborough
> Louie D. Newton
> Richard A. McLemore
> Robert E. Baylor
> W.T. Conner
> W.W. Barnes
> William R. White
> William Tryon
> William W. Hamilton
> 
> Another source alleges: "A 1991 survey by the Southern Baptist Convention Sunday School Board found that 14% of SBC pastors and 18% of SBC deacon board chairs were Masons; it is also estimated that SBC members comprise 37% of total U.S. lodge membership. (A 2000 updated SBC report found that over 1,000 SBC pastors are Masons.)."
> 
> Evidently there is a cultural component as well. I do not know a single pastor in SoCal who is a Mason.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 37% is a heavy number. Perhaps Pergamum or another member with first-hand experience with FM can attest to this, *but I know mystery-religion intentionally hides symbolic meaning from initiates, until you increase in degree and are revealed more and more truth*.
> 
> [...]
Click to expand...


In fact, even the 33 degree Mason is considered a "porch mason" by the "in-the-knows." A "porch mason" is used for the express purpose as a buffer between "real" masons and the general public. The porch masons are those that join because of lodge activities. Most masons fall in this category.

I have not met a Christian, that has done the research I have (I am no expert), and did not absolutely denounce this demonic organization.


----------



## jaybird0827

Dieter Schneider said:


> Can anyone from the PB you guess from my handshake whether I am a mason?


----------



## larryjf

Here's a secret Mason handshake...






Mark 4:22 - For nothing is hidden except to be made manifest; nor is anything secret except to come to light.


----------



## Mushroom

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> JM said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> kalawine said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hey! Let's go, have a beer and a stoggie and then tell them we're not interested.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I was thinking...unless they lay out their plans to control the world using the Colonial Sanders special recipe, I'm walking!
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> _So I Married An Axe Murderer_:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Stuart Mackenzie: Well, it's a well known fact, Sonny Jim, that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
> Tony Giardino: So who's in this Pentavirate?
> Stuart Mackenzie: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went *** up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eyes, and that smug look on his face. "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!"
> Charlie Mackenzie: Dad, how can you hate "The Colonel"?
> Stuart Mackenzie: Because he puts an addictive chemical in his chicken that makes ya crave it fortnightly...!
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...

And just now they come out with the Colonel's Cravin' Filet to bring this conspiracy to its culmination. It is futile to resist.... We _will_ be assimilated.


----------



## john_Mark

If you want to read the oaths and rituals pick up a little book called Duncan's _Ritual_. I loaned it to a brother at church when he was offended that I said something against free-masonry. He didn't like the judging posture because his grandfather is a mason and a "good" man. I wasn't mean, mind you. He just didn't like my take. He borrowed the book and gave it back a month later without really commenting. I gave him and over view and told him what to look for too.

The biggest issue for me aside from the blood oaths and gnostic positions is the re-birth one goes through in the lodge. You dress up like Hiram Abiff, the imaginary character masonry is based on, and you play him as he goes through being murdered while blind-folded. Once dead the masonic distress signal is given by all the masons standing around as you lie "dead." You are eventually risen back to life with the true grip of the master mason upon the five points of fellowship. During which time you are given the substitute for the secret word of masonry.

As a Christian, this ritual of resurrection does not sit well with me at all. Christianity is compatible with Masonry, but not vice versa in my opinion. Masonry can accept any religion that professes to believe in god though here in the South you'll find that lodges mostly use the Bible upon with to swear blood oaths and open and close the lodge.

Historically masons were not supposed to ask anyone to join and most of the time would not even respond right away upon the first time someone asks about it. However, numbers have been in decline for some years now so I understand that people are being asked to join sometimes.

I don't see anything profitable about a Christian to join a Masonic lodge.


----------



## JM

The other night I read a brief chapter on the Masons by a Mason and it sound like the Joe Smith doctrine of progressive godhood-ism or whatever they called it. 

I'm not interested.


----------



## Matthew1034

gene_mingo said:


> Scott1 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can you show proof that Graham is a Freemason?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no need to speculate on this, contact Mr Graham's ministry and ask.
> 
> The Ninth Commandment and other biblical principles would require we not base or debate this on innuendo.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Like I said previously this has been done.
> 
> here is the info from the masons mouth:
> Sec. 3, Anti-masonry Frequently Asked Questions
> 
> ......
> 
> I have seen many discussion about freemasonry fall apart because of false claims about who were members.
Click to expand...



I seek no other thing than to bring the body of believers closer together in a bond of love; my last desire is to forfeit the well-being of the body for correctness of knowledge. However, I cannot tolerate evil. I hate the deceitfulness of organizations like freemasonry because of the ill-effect they have on our brotherhood.

It is wrong when, in the local church, respecting a person's choice to practice freemasonry has superiority over being truthful with them about the reality behind their practice! If it is taboo to raise one's voice against such darkness in a local church, where is true fellowship? where is having the same mind, the mind of Christ? where is love?

Freemasonry IS a religion; they have a set of practices dictated by a set of beliefs, as well as heirarchy and symbolism, which bring its followers to supposed higher intimacy and greater illumination with "The Great Architect of the Universe." THESE PEOPLE ARE IN *BONDAGE*, and it _brings sorrow_ to my soul when I see a fellow Christian in such a yoke, neglecting the freedom and joy which is found only in Christ! And I should be silent about this and those _associated _with it for the sake of following a commandment? Blasphemy. If a discussion about freemasonry falls apart because of false claims about its members, what a devastation!, the conversation should flourish because... *look at what we were saved from,* and look what others aren't saved from. I find greater love in suffering humiliation for exposing another's sin for his own benefit than the sort of love which comes from people "liking me" because I never open my mouth about their error. Billy Graham should know the reproach he brings on Jesus' name through his association with Freemasons, Presidents, and Catholics. There is no avoiding this.

And, I did wrong in blatantly stating, without any solid evidence, that Billy was a freemason. But, I never said he was a Catholic, either. My point is not to prove whether he is a freemason, or prove that he is a Catholic, but rather shine light on his ultra-apparent yoke with these people. Should a Christian who has been given such influence portray Christ the way he does? He has multiple freemasons at high positions in the BGEA and sacrifices sound doctrine for unity with the Papacy; what a departure from the old Billy, eh?

I did not mean to bring this whole discussion back to life, but wanted to state that I am not seeking vainglory in posting these things, but rather informing all in love, praying that some will understand that it is not "easy" to be a Christian in a church that literally praises Billy Graham and is willfully blind to what he stands for now.



I want to throw this quote into the mix:

"No one owns God, just as surely as no one owns "truth." Not one among us can be truly certain about the nature of God, so "Great Architect of the Universe" is a particularly apt reference to the Deity, as the reference acknowledges both the design and the designer without staking a claim on some exclusive jurisdiction. Deists, Christians - both Catholic and Protestant - Hindus, Muslims, Buddhists, and men of many other faiths have been welcomed into our Fraternity. One point of commonality is their belief in the one God. Masons believe there is one God and one God only. Masons also know that since time immemorial, people have employed many different ways of seeking and expressing what they know of God, of their experiences and relationship with that which transcends all knowing.

Though the Deity has been called by many sectarian names through the ages, perhaps Lao-Tzu's description of the "Tao" or "the Way" best clears away the robes, trappings, trumpery, and shadows surrounding the mystery to which we bow with reverence.

In the first chapter of the "Te-Tao Ching," it is written: The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever without desire, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name. This appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.

Masonic use of the title "Great Architect of the Universe" is our reverential denotation of the Deity, of that eternal name which cannot be named." (SOURCE: California Freemason Online, The Meaning of "the Great Architect of the Universe")


----------



## jaybird0827

Mattew1034:

You just made some excellent points about Masons in the church.

Once upon a time when I had decided to leave the Presbyterian mainline for good, and take my family with me, we went shopping for a good reformed and evangelical church.

One church we visited, at the conclusion I told Mrs. J, we are not coming back here. This place is crawling with Masons. I knew that as a former Mason who had repented and renounced it by demitting from the lodge. I can spot them a mile away.

From the worship, and especially from the sermon, I had the impression of a very weak pastor whose hands were tied. I suspected that either he was clueless, or that he was allowed to say certain things and not others. I was like, we're out of here.


----------



## Mushroom

I once visited an SBC Church where they were having an "Honor the Masons Day". I scurried out pretty quick.


----------

