# Early Church Fathers & Co.



## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Feb 28, 2005)

Often in the Reformed Camp we start talking about Augustine and then suddenly make a theological leap forward to John Wycliffe (well that is what it seems to me sometimes). What other early church leaders held to something similar to the Doctrines of Grace - predestination in particular? Surely other early writers hinted at it etc... Did Pope Clement I? (I always wondered about his epistles but I do not know where to find copies of them anymore).

What about during the reign of the Roman Catholic Church? Were there any Saints or Clergy during that period between the Reformation and the Early Church which held effectivly to the Doctrines of Grace?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 28, 2005)

Fraser,

I'm not an expert in early Church history, but it's important to remember that the Reformation was a _Recovery_ and a _Restoration_ of pure Apostolic doctrine and practice as opposed to what the corrupted Roman Catholic Church had become, and not some new innovation as the RCC alleged. 

The Dark Ages were truly dark because of the ascension of Papal power and the suppression of God's Word. However, at no time was the world without the witness of Biblical truth, either before the rise of the Papacy (Augustine, Chrysostom, Augustine, Jerome, etc. - note that the Reformers often cited early Church Fathers to support the Reformation but did not rely on them exclusively), within the RCC (Patrick of Ireland, Anselm), or from witnesses who broke with the RCC (Waldenses, Albigenses, Lollards, Eastern Orthodox Church). Men like Peter Waldo, John Huss, John Wycliffe are considered Proto or Primitive Protestants (not always without error, but faithful to protest the major errors of Romanism). The Reformation brought about a deeper understanding of Biblical truth than had gone before, but there were Protestants before Martin Luther. The RCC didn't become truly apostate until the Council of Trent in the mid-1500's. See Loraine Boettner's _Roman Catholicism_ for a history/chronology showing the introduction of particular errors into Romanism. The RCC claims to be apostolic because they assert that Peter was the first Pope and others succeeded him, but those claims are false and Boettner shows that it is the Protestant Church which truly may lay claim to the Apostolic mantle. 

I recommend reading Philip Schaff's _History of the Christian Church_ and J.A. Wylie's _History of Protestantism_, particularly the chapters covering the Dark Ages, to learn more about the pre-Reformation witness to Biblical truth. 

http://www.ccel.org/s/schaff/history/About.htm

http://www.doctrine.org/history/


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Feb 28, 2005)

Hey thanks for that. There were some interesting facts among those links. I even found mention of Clement which I was always wondering about. I am facinated by the early church but never really got around to studying it in-depth. I should hunt down some of their works in my university library. I believe I am the only person who really reads the ancient Christian theology section lol. It is in an old dusty corner and most the writing off the leather spines have worn off. I found the Institutes of the Christian religion by looking in the cover for the name... even then I sneezed with the dust.

Second Question: *Apart from Augustine what other orthodox good reads are there from the early church?* Would people recommend the epistles of Clement? What else?


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## Puritanhead (Feb 28, 2005)

St. John Chrysostom had quite a few good quotes, showing if anything else, he knew that justification was by "faith alone..." as he spelled it as such. I gleaned quite a few others off the Internet a while back, but seem to have misplaced them.

http://www.bringyou.to/apologetics/a98.htm


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## Plimoth Thom (Feb 28, 2005)

The Commonitory by Vincent of Lerins is often quoted in support of _sola scriptura_ and I've read positive reviews by reformed christians.


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## Scott (Mar 1, 2005)

The two most quoted fathers by Calvin are Augustine and Chrysostom.


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