# Can anyone say exegesis? Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?



## Herald (Feb 12, 2008)

My daughter is homeschooled, and as such she is on a bevy of Christian mailing lists. We have receive a publication titled, "PCC Update" from Pensacola Christian College. I know PCC is a good fundamentalist, Arminian school, and I shouldn't be shocked at how they celebrate free will (after all, they are famous for the "Free Will song"), but after reading the following article by the late Pastor Mark G. Cambron, founder of Seaside Mission, I was left with my mouth wide open and my jaw on the floor. If this is a taste of what the students at PCC are exposed to I pity them.



> There are many theories today concerning foreknowledge, predestination and election, until the mind of the average Christian is so mixed up he doesn't know what to believe. If we do not get these three doctrines straight, our whole Christian life will be warped, and witnessing to the unsaved will be a lost grace. Let's look at the foreknowledge of God.
> 
> *FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD*
> 
> ...


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## MrMerlin777 (Feb 12, 2008)




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## Southern Presbyterian (Feb 12, 2008)




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## Presbyterian Deacon (Feb 12, 2008)

... no, don't get me started!



 --"They do err not knowing the scriptures..." nor the Institutes!


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## DMcFadden (Feb 12, 2008)

Huh? You mean that there was like something wrong with it? I thought that you said it was like written by a Pastor??? I feel that if we would just focus on Jesus and like the red-letter verses about justice, we wouldn't get like into these nasty fights over words. After all, like how can we really know that the free will position is not right? Maybe heaven is just like how we walk into a room marked "whosoever will." Inside we like see a lavish table with name plates at each seat like. And, when we like get ready to sit down we find our name and a line that like says "predestined from the foundation of the world." Can't both views be right? My pastor says that he is a Calminian. And with such smark people on both sides like, I don't feel it is worth like making a stink in the body of Christ. After all, it doesn't feel very loving.

[where is the emoticon for "tongue in cheek"???]


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## Barnpreacher (Feb 12, 2008)

[video=youtube;IrczyFvkv8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrczyFvkv8Q[/video]

This song that has floated around the PB from time to time was sung at PCC.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Feb 12, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> YouTube - Free Will Song
> 
> This song that has floated around the PB from time to time was sung at PCC.



ARMINIAN JAZZ MUSIC 

YUCK


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## CatechumenPatrick (Feb 12, 2008)

"If we do not get these three doctrines straight, our whole Christian life will be warped, and witnessing to the unsaved will be a lost grace."

I agree!


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 12, 2008)

> Again we state - predestination is the predetermined blessings for the saved man and has nothing to do with salvation.


Can anyone say: "NOT the Gospel."

This leaves the very ground of our salvation that begins in God.


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## D. Paul (Feb 12, 2008)

OK. So the man has read Dave Hunt. Everything he said is a simple regurgitation. Nothing new; been refuted over and over and over...
thus all the  going on around here. I wondered where all the ruckus was coming from.


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## Gryphonette (Feb 12, 2008)

Mercy Maud! That's positively abysmal. 

What do you suppose they do with John 10: 
25-6 Jesus answered them, "I told you, and you do not believe; the works that I do in My Father's name, these testify of Me. *But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep*..."

I've read Arminians tie themselves up like pretzels trying to make that mean precisely the opposite of what it does. It'd be amusing were it not so disrespectful of the Savior and His words.


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## Herald (Feb 12, 2008)

SemperFideles said:


> > Again we state - predestination is the predetermined blessings for the saved man and has nothing to do with salvation.
> 
> 
> Can anyone say: "NOT the Gospel."
> ...



That is my primary concern. What does teaching like this do to the very fabric of the gospel? How far can you deviate from the gospel before it becomes a false gospel, or worse yet, emblematic of Galatians 1:8? Our God is sovereign and can rescue his elect from such falsehood. I am living proof of that fact. May God grant his church true revival through the faithful teaching of his word and the work of the Spirit.


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## DeaconHardwick (Feb 12, 2008)

Such confusion going on! Our daughter is 8 and she already understands that she may be destined for fire if she has not been so elected. She will grow up knowing to test herself against Scripture to see if she is of the faith and of the One Spirit. It is no use telling her that Jesus died for her and that all she has to do is "accept it". It's hogwash and free-willism. Jesus may not have, and what reason would I have to fill her head with a hope that she may not have? Children are not fools or weak. They will understand these concepts if you do not candy-coat the truth.


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## MrMerlin777 (Feb 12, 2008)

Gryphonette said:


> Mercy Maud! That's positively abysmal.





 Abysmal is just the word for it. This sludge is straight from the Abyss.


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## Barnpreacher (Feb 12, 2008)

DeaconHardwick said:


> Such confusion going on! Our daughter is 8 and she already understands that she may be destined for fire if she has not been so elected. She will grow up knowing to test herself against Scripture to see if she is of the faith and of the One Spirit. It is no use telling her that Jesus died for her and that all she has to do is "accept it". It's hogwash and free-willism. Jesus may not have, and what reason would I have to fill her head with a hope that she may not have? Children are not fools or weak. They will understand these concepts if you do not candy-coat the truth.



Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "_*Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved*_." It is not "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."


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## Civbert (Feb 12, 2008)

The Bible uses words like election and predestination to confuse us.


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## Civbert (Feb 12, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "_*Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved*_." It is NOT "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."



It also says "work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Php 2:12). I think there is some justification for self examination. 

[bible]Php 2:12[/bible]

Does the unregenerate or reprobate worry about his salvation? Doesn't he deny he is a sinner. He thinks he will be saved because he "basically a good person".


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## Barnpreacher (Feb 12, 2008)

Civbert said:


> Barnpreacher said:
> 
> 
> > Spurgeon used to preach that it was dangerous for a lost individual to "worry" about whether they were elect or not. The fact of the matter is that the Gospel says Jesus died to reconcile us to God. Did He die to reconcile all to God? Certainly not all individuals that have ever lived, but ALL his elect. How do you know if you are elect of God? My sheep hear my voice and they follow me. The command is, "_*Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved*_." It is NOT "Figure out if you are of the elect and thou shalt be saved."
> ...



Agree completely. However, you're dealing with those that understand the issues of justification, sanctification etc. when you're talking about self-examination. You're dealing with those that are a part of the visible church. That doesn't make them a part of the invisible church, but I don't believe that you teach the heathen to figure out if they are elect or not. You preach to them the Gospel and tell them they are compelled to repent and believe it, or they will die in their sins.


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## Civbert (Feb 12, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> Civbert said:
> 
> 
> > Barnpreacher said:
> ...



OK. I missed the "for a lost individual". I see what you are saying.


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## Poimen (Feb 12, 2008)

Civbert said:


> The Bible uses words like election and predestination to confuse us.


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## Grymir (Feb 12, 2008)

Yea, a wise person once told me that usually, if someone is talking to you about God and salvation (Not the nay sayers), you could bet good money that God was at work somewhere in that person

(Bet good money  you could commit a sin if God is behind it. It was just a metaphor though. Don't go looking at Vegas on the odds of so and so being a real Christian as 30 to 1.)

and that article? Heresy. There, I said it. The video, it took me 3 mins to pull myself off of the floor. I'm glad I wasn't in that church when it was performed.


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