# Eph 4:11



## KMK (Feb 19, 2007)

"And he gave some..."

Is Paul saying that he gave grace to individual men for the purpose of filling a certain office?

Or

Is Paul saying that he gave to his churches, as a gift, men for the purpose of filling those offices? And if so, is Paul making a connection with the promise in Jer 3:15? (I heard Pator Morecraft make this connection in a sermon once)

What thinnk ye?


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## Hamalas (Feb 27, 2007)

I would not say that the two options are mutually exclusive. Paul clearly says in 1 Cor 12:7 "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." (ESV) God gives us spiritual gifts or, "Manifestation's of the Spirit" for the building up of the body and ultimately God's glory. So my take would be that God granted them the necessary grace and gift of the Holy Spirit so that they would have the purpose and desire to build up the body according to their particular "Manifestation."


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## KMK (Feb 28, 2007)

Hamalas said:


> I would not say that the two options are mutually exclusive. Paul clearly says in 1 Cor 12:7 "To each is given the manifestation of the Spirit for the common good." (ESV) God gives us spiritual gifts or, "Manifestation's of the Spirit" for the building up of the body and ultimately God's glory. So my take would be that God granted them the necessary grace and gift of the Holy Spirit so that they would have the purpose and desire to build up the body according to their particular "Manifestation."



 to Puritanboard!

I would agree that both possibilities are true, but I was trying to clarify what this verse specifically teaches. If there is a connection with Jer 3:15 most of the commentators don't see it.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 28, 2007)

There are some useful resources on Eph. 4.11 found in this thread. 

To which I would add the comments of John Collinges (from Matthew Poole's Annotations) on Jer. 3.15:



> Jer 3:15. Pastors; either civil magistrates, which are sometimes so called, Mic 5:5; or rather ecclesiastical, as appears both from the reason of God's judgments upon Israel, viz. their pastors being generally either thieves or dumb dogs; and also from the nature of their office, in the close of the verse, *and thus they are called Eph 4:11*. According to mine heart; such as I will both choose for you and approve of, and that shall faithfully and skilfully declare unto you my mind; which intimates not only a single act of deliverance, but his constant preservation of them. Which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding: this notes either the nature of their food: see Neh 8:8; Mal 2:7. Or rather the manner of their feeding: see Ps 78:72; 1 Pet 5:2. See more of this promise Jer 23:4.



Jer. 3.15 and Eph. 4.11 are linked in Nave's Topical Bible (CHURCH - God provides ministers for - Jeremiah 3:15; Ephesians 4:11,12), Clarke's Scripture Promises 



> 10. THE MEANS OF GRACE
> 
> "He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters" (Psalm 23:2).
> 
> ...



and other like resources as well.


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## KMK (Feb 28, 2007)

Thanks!

I had never heard of Clarke's before and now I have it bookmarked!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 28, 2007)

KMK said:


> Thanks!
> 
> I had never heard of Clarke's before and now I have it bookmarked!


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