# Wedding Dresses



## Wannabee (Dec 23, 2008)

There is the possibility of a wedding in the works here. It's still preliminary, but could happen soon. One of the criteria I set forth is that I must approve wedding dresses. It's appalling how a young lady can protect her purity for 20 years, then dress in such a fashion as to reveal that which she has carefully concealed for so long. 
So, where can one find some patterns or examples of pretty wedding dresses that are still modest? Who here has experience in this area?

Thanks


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## Kevin (Dec 23, 2008)

Be careful in this area.

You could harm relationships with several generations by being the one who said that a brides dress was immodest.

Should a man even be the one to discuss this with the bride? Are they realy that bad? Or are you holding people to a standard of modesty that they themselves disagree with? Are you using the right to a church wedding as a way to enforce, grudging complience with your own view.

For example; if you considered a certain length of sleeve to be immodest would you be willing to drive a family from the church over it?


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## jwithnell (Dec 23, 2008)

I made my daughter's wedding dress using this pattern (Butterick 4452)

Butterick - B4452 - <span class="discard">Out of Print</span> MISSES' TOP AND SKIRT - 4452

It had the advantage of being able to fit the top and bottom separately and the top was _not_ cut down to her ankles.

I agree, wedding dresses have become awful ... but by working together, you might be able to do OK. This worked wonderfully with our older daughter. I would shudder to think how this might go with our younger ....


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

question... are you the brides father or the groom? I know that a lot of girls dream long and hard about their wedding and to be told that the dress (which is the centerpiece of the whole day) she has her heart set on is immodest could be heart crushing... to you it is a dress to her it is THE dress. Plus if she has taken care to protect her virtue this long I think her choice of a dress should be her and hers alone desision. The dress is a BIG deal.

BTW just because I LOVE wedding dresses... if I were ever to get remarried (hubby and I "eloped") this is the dress I would wear http://redhotbrides.com/blog/index.php/2008/04/07/timeless_red_and_white_wedding_dresses


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## Pilgrim (Dec 23, 2008)

A lot of people might be "crushed" to be told their proposed wedding is improper because it would be unequal yoking, or one party had an unscriptural divorce and needs to instead seek reconciliation. I know of pastors who are thought of poorly 30 years later by unconverted church people simply because they dared to speak the truth and tell them that they were not doing right in God's eyes.


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## Augusta (Dec 23, 2008)

It has been a while so I checked out what is popular. Um...yeah....it looks like it's all strapless or plunging necklines. You should just say it should have sleeves and no cleavage. She can save all that for her husband, for later.


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## N. Eshelman (Dec 23, 2008)

My favorite 'Wedding Dress':

[video=youtube;mvQRd7D9BDM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvQRd7D9BDM[/video]

-----Added 12/23/2008 at 12:54:38 EST-----

Totally Modest.com - Modest Wedding Gowns, Modest Wedding Dresses, Modest Bridesmaids and Formals, Modest Prom Gowns,

Modest Wedding dresses.


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## Augusta (Dec 23, 2008)

I found this link Modest Bridal Gowns, Fashion Forward Bridal Gowns, Tznius Bridal Gowns, Kallah Gowns. I found it because someone asked on a website where you can find traditional wedding gowns now because it is so hard. I guess I should have known that the loose dressing styles would affect wedding gowns as well. Sad.


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

I LOVE that song... the LDS wedding dresses are kinda pretty... 
what do you consider inmodest? does it have to have sleeves? can it have a sweetheart top.. like the second dress in the link I gave?


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## LawrenceU (Dec 23, 2008)

Tread very carefully, my brother. Walk circumspectly here, my brother. You may be plaiting the noose that hangs you. 

I am a stickler on modesty in my family and in my congregation. I have done many weddings. Most of the time the dresses were modest. A few times they were not what I would approve, but I don't see it as my place to approve their choice. If you think that there is an issue here then you may be much better served by having your wife involved. Frankly, in my opinion, the wedding dress has been elevated to a position that it approaches idolatry at times. But, that is another topic for another day.

Many times that dress has been purchased quite a while before the pastor is even involved in the slightest sense. And, they ain't cheap.


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

wait.... Joe's the pastor of the wedding?


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## Pilgrim (Dec 23, 2008)

LawrenceU said:


> Tread very carefully, my brother. Walk circumspectly here, my brother. You may be plaiting the noose that hangs you.
> 
> I am a stickler on modesty in my family and in my congregation. I have done many weddings. Most of the time the dresses were modest. A few times they were not what I would approve, but I don't see it as my place to approve their choice. If you think that there is an issue here then you may be much better served by having your wife involved. Frankly, in my opinion, the wedding dress has been elevated to a position that it approaches idolatry at times. But, that is another topic for another day.
> 
> Many times that dress has been purchased quite a while before the pastor is even involved in the slightest sense. And, they ain't cheap.



I know one preacher who said he'd rather preach a funeral than a wedding any day because of these kinds of issues as well as the ones I mentioned in my earlier post.


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## Augusta (Dec 23, 2008)

Some clarification on if he is the father of the bride or just the preacher would be good. I do understand also if he is just officiating because it can't be easy to do with cleavage etc. in front of you.  I doubt though that is the case, I think this is his daughter.


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

see dad would be easier... he could go with when they pick out the dress... but the dress is usually one of the first things that is picked out right after the guy pops the question.... then there are fittings and alterations it's a lengthy and expensive prosess... and for the preacher to say nope don't like the dress... well... that's just not cool.... if he think she won't pick out a decent dress then should have had reservations on officating the wedding.


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## Pilgrim (Dec 23, 2008)

Honor said:


> wait.... Joe's the pastor of the wedding?



That's the way that I read it.


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## toddpedlar (Dec 23, 2008)

Augusta said:


> I found this link Modest Bridal Gowns, Fashion Forward Bridal Gowns, Tznius Bridal Gowns, Kallah Gowns. I found it because someone asked on a website where you can find traditional wedding gowns now because it is so hard. I guess I should have known that the loose dressing styles would affect wedding gowns as well. Sad.



I suspect that for brides-to-be it's particularly difficult given the massive cultural pressure for that day and "that dress" to be an opportunity to "flash some flesh". There seems to be an attitude, even within the church, that on that day the bride is supposed to be a knockout for all the men in the church to drool over.... and too often they do, being stumbled severely by the cut of the bride's gown. (and then, in such moments, the 'fault' is argued to be the man's alone - the bride sees that day to wear what she "feels beautiful in" regardless of whether it's putting stumbling blocks before the majority of men there).


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

hey just a question.... what happens (assuming he's the pastor not the father) and he thinks the dress is inmodest but it's the dress handed down from the mother that the bride wants to wear????


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## LadyFlynt (Dec 23, 2008)

In the church I grew up in, the pastor would refuse to officiate. The dress has to meet certain standards. Sleeveless and plunging necklines would have been a no. There are sweetheart necklines that are higher, cover more, and include sleeves


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

is the sleeve thing because bare shoulders are considered immodest?


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## LadyFlynt (Dec 23, 2008)

A few sites from the top of google:

Modest Wedding Dresses and More | Beautifully Modest

Totally Modest.com - Modest Wedding Gowns, Modest Wedding Dresses, Modest Bridesmaids and Formals, Modest Prom Gowns,

Modest Wedding & Clothing | LatterDay Bride & Prom

Modest Wedding Dresses

Bridal Expressions - Home

http://www.kathleensbridal.com/

Modest Bridal and Prom - ETERNITY Gowns: Sophisticated Dresses and Gowns Designed with Modesty in Mind for Weddings, Prom, Shabbos, Quinceanera, Pageants, Muslim Events, LDS Temple, etc.



On a sidenote: my eldest daughter wants me to make her a white, buckskin wedding dress (colourful beading to be included...a girl knows what she dreams of, eh?)

-----Added 12/23/2008 at 02:24:13 EST-----



Honor said:


> is the sleeve thing because bare shoulders are considered immodest?



Yes.


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

oh


I was a shameless hussy then...I had spegetti straps and my dress didn't even reach my knees
(I'm totally just poking, I mean my dress did have all those things but I don't think it was immodest in the least) so I'm just playing with you.


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## LawrenceU (Dec 23, 2008)

Augusta said:


> Some clarification on if he is the father of the bride or just the preacher would be good. I do understand also if he is just officiating because it can't be easy to do with cleavage etc. in front of you.  I doubt though that is the case, I think this is his daughter.



Joe has two sons. No daughters.


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## LadyFlynt (Dec 23, 2008)

Honor said:


> oh
> 
> 
> I was a shameless hussy then...I had spegetti straps and my dress didn't even reach my knees
> (I'm totally just poking, I mean my dress did have all those things but I don't think it was immodest in the least) so I'm just playing with you.



My dress barely reached my knees (I think). We ended up having a smaller wedding and I couldn't afford to alter my formal wedding dress I had bought, so I went and found myself a cute dress on sale at Lerner's for $30. Tea length was "in" at the time. We turned the formal one into a baptismal gown for our babies


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## JBaldwin (Dec 23, 2008)

I have played organ and piano for weddings for years, and in many churches, they've had a specified modesty standard in the wedding policy. So a bride knew when they were having a wedding in that particular church, she and her bridal party would be required to maintain the standard. I have seen brides refuse to get married in a church because of it. 

I would, however, agree with those who have said to tread lightly, especially if the wedding is already set for the church and a modesty policy was not in place at the time the date was set for that church. If it wasn't a bride could get really huffy and upset. 

My sister has a specialty shop in Greenville, SC (and online). They specialize in vintage clothing and carry a line of modest wedding gowns. They also do alterations on dresses to make them more modest. 

Threads in Time Vintage Clothing


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## LadyFlynt (Dec 23, 2008)

Bridezillas - WEtv.com


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## lynnie (Dec 23, 2008)

Huh?

Shoulders provoke lust?

Or is it the armpits? 

I am 54 and I have dressed modestly since I got saved at age 18. We were taught that your clothes should not draw attention, it is the smile on your face and the gracious words out of your mouth that attract attention. And I certainly agree that cleavage should be covered ( and not covered so tight it looks like spray paint.)

But sleeveless? On a summer day with a nice scoopneck, that is considered immodest?

This is eye opening to be honest, I didn't know the standards were so strict in some parts of the country.

I'd have to say that in today's world, if a guy gets provoked to wrong thoughts by bare shoulders with a perfectly modest scoopneck top, you have to wonder if the guy has a problem.


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## LadyFlynt (Dec 23, 2008)

lynnie said:


> Huh?
> 
> Shoulders provoke lust?
> 
> ...



I'm only saying this is how I and others I've known were raised. And halters were a definite 'NO' as most of the back is exposed.

The though process behind it, how it was explained to us, is that it gives the appearance of being undressed (particularly if someone is supposed to be looking at your face) and sleeveless does reveal some things, particularly on larger women, as they move their arms and such.

(btw, don't throw tomatoes at me, but my daughters are not permitted to wear sleeveless attire either...if a dress is sleeveless, it better have a matching jacket or sweater to complete, and cover, their outfit)


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## he beholds (Dec 23, 2008)

I think the above advice is good. If it is your daughter, I think you have all the say that you want with her. If it is your son's bride-to-be, I think you have no say
If you are officiating, I think that you have no say, unless, like someone said above, it is a policy of the church. 
Well, if you are her pastor and officiating, I think you have the same say that any pastor would have with any in his flock. I think you can tell her what you consider to be sinful, beforehand, and hope she heeds your advice. I do not think that you should get a preview to make sure it fits your requirements. She is responsible for her own behavior, and if she decides to not listen to sound advice, I think it is then on her.

ETA: Even on here, and even amongst women, there is not a consensus to modesty. Unless you are the father, I don't see how your view can totally trump her view. Again, I think teaching what you believe, and hoping she listens, is the best scenario.


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## jwithnell (Dec 23, 2008)

Aside from what parents and a church might request, weddings generally fall under the standards of formal and informal wear with certain types of outfits and colors considered appropriate for certain times of day. That's where terms like "tea length" dress come from -- a somewhat shorter dress that's appropriate for late afternoon. Some have practical implication -- for example, a bride (or her poor maids) who wear a no-strap dress to a wedding that includes a meal (appropriate for a night-time dance, but not a dinner) could end up looking like they are wearing nothing at all when viewed from across the table.


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## Wannabee (Dec 23, 2008)

Wow! I definitely didn't expect this much reaction. Thanks to all of you for your views. I got a kick out of the attempts at guessing my "position." As this is a public forum, I'm going to bow out on saying anything at this time. My only intention was to find some sources for modest wedding dresses so I could pass on the information. I'll spill the beans on the rest when I can.

It seems that some here disagree with my position. Here are a few statements so I can share my thoughts as well. If:
My daughter: You're darn straight I would have something to say about it.
My son: I have spoken to both of my sons and taught them to protect their brides.
A member of my church: Regardless of whether I am doing the wedding, I answer to God for how I've cared for the souls entrusted to me (Heb 13:17). For a woman to flaunt her body anytime, but especially on her wedding day, is a grievous sin. I know many have advised caution here, and I would desire to be careful and caring. But I also must consider her soul before her emotions/feelings and would fail in my duty to God if I were to do nothing. A quote in a dear friend's signature says it well:
We shall not adjust our Bible to the age; but before we have done with it, by God's grace, we shall adjust the age to the Bible. - Charles Haddon Spurgeon
Finally, if I were officiating a wedding for non-members: I simply would lay down the criteria that I follow. If they didn't accept the criteria I put forth then they're free to go elsewhere. Again, I answer to God first, and see no benefit in encouraging the type of vanity that is often pursued at weddings.

Are we to do everything to the glory of God, or not? Is there a time when God tells us that it's okay to let go a bit and grab center stage?

1 Peter 3:3-4
Do not let your adornment be outward—arranging the hair, wearing gold, or putting on fine apparel— rather let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the incorruptible beauty of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is very precious in the sight of God.

When the couple are Christians, who is a wedding for? Who should be central? What should people be thinking when they leave? The world/culture will tell us that the wedding is for the bride; the bride should be central and that people should be thinking about how beautiful the bride was when they leave. This is a lie. The wedding is about Jesus Christ. When a couple is married it should be clear that their marriage is a picture of Christ's oneness with the church. The marriage covenant is an image of God's covenant with His church. It should be clear that marriage is instituted by God and is for His glory, not the bride's (or groom's). If the couple wants personal glory then they can go elsewhere to receive their reward.

If they are not Christians, then they still would have to meet the same criteria. The ceremony would be somewhat different, but still point to God as the source and the picture of Christ as the groom of the church. 

With this in mind, it is apparent that I probably won't do too many weddings. That's okay. May the ones I do get to perform be a source of great glory to God and result in marriages that are wonderful lifelong testimonies of the mystery of the oneness of Christ and the church.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful advice, both on the dresses and on how I should proceed. My position in regard to this is pretty firm, though I know that "modest" can be somewhat subjective. And I know that many here will disagree with me; hopefully respectfully.


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## Honor (Dec 23, 2008)

> But I also must consider her soul before her emotions/feelings and would fail in my duty to God if I were to do nothing.


but do you think her soul is in jepordey if she wear a strapless dress?


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## Wannabee (Dec 23, 2008)

I wouldn't want to confuse fruit with the root, but it is an indication. I'm not going to tell you, or anyone here, what is immodest. There is a point where it is a matter of conscience. However, as a carer of souls I cannot go against my conscience in regard to this either.
I think much of the problem is inherent in the question though. The question is entirely self-focused. If she wears... is her soul in jeopardy? I say this gently and kindly, but such a question is humanistic in it's approach. The question should always be, "What will bring God the most glory?" or "How much can I do to bring God more glory?" or "What can I wear that would be the least distracting from my desire to see God glorified?" or something along these lines. We must focus on God first, period. 
This thought process permeates our culture. "How far can we go?" is the most obvious one. But we see this in every aspect of life, where professing Christians push the envelope, attempting to walk the tightrope that represents the line just shy of avoiding sin. They are focused on themselves. We should make it our habit to avoid even approaching the line as much as possible.
Does this mean that a bride sins when she wears a strapless dress? I'll let you judge that. But I encourage you to judge with a focus on the promotion of godliness, not bridal esteem. If you can honestly say that there is nothing about wearing a strapless dress that could distract from godliness or is an attempt to gain undue attention then you might have point. But I would further submit that you only have a valid point if you can claim that the strapless dress is the choice that is most likely pertaining to godliness. 

Thank you for the question Jessica.


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## Ex Nihilo (Dec 23, 2008)

I totally agree with Wannabee. So many women have never been taught better, so I'm sure it is helpful to have someone lovingly point out that certain styles of dresses are immodest. Many of these women are sincere Christians, but their moms and dads perhaps never taught them to cover up.


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## satz (Dec 24, 2008)

These are just some thoughts I had. Please do not take this an a disagreement with the concerns expressed in your OP, or the need for modesty in weddings (and everywhere else), because I agree with you wholeheartedly there. But I am not sure about the manner you seem to be suggesting in going about answering Jessica's question.



Wannabee said:


> IThis thought process permeates our culture. "How far can we go?" is the most obvious one. But we see this in every aspect of life, where professing Christians push the envelope, attempting to walk the tightrope that represents the line just shy of avoiding sin. They are focused on themselves. We should make it our habit to avoid even approaching the line as much as possible.



I don’t want to say anything on the specific issue of strapless dresses, but I am not sure that this principle can necessarily be applied in a blanket fashion to the issue of dressing (whether at a wedding or elsewhere).

The bible does not present the issue of dressing as being simply how far can we stay away from the line of sin, because the bible itself says that there is virtue in dressing well both in general (Proverbs 31:22) and in the specific context of a wedding (Is 61:10, Jer 2:32). The bible itself would say that God is glorified in both the attractiveness and the modesty of the bride’s dressing.

So I do not think it is really possible to answer the question of what to wear on a wedding without discussing the merits (or lack thereof) of a particular item of clothing under question. To ask “What will glorify God?” does not, of itself suggest an answer as the God glorifying response is not always the most “conservative” one (please remember again I am not making these comments in the context of any specific item of clothing).

That said, if concerns have been expressed about an item of clothing, I think a woman who wants to glorify God will want to avoid offence and will be willing to change her clothing choices at a wedding if she is asked to. That, I think, is the how these questions should ultimately be resolved in a church.


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## Wannabee (Dec 24, 2008)

Thanks Mark,

I think your comments are very complementary to my own, and perhaps bring some clarity that mine lacked. I see no contradiction whatsoever.


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## calgal (Dec 24, 2008)

A few questions and things to keep in mind: your church is in the UP. Not a lot of large cities containing a bunch of bridal shops or holding inventory for too long in a depressed economy (the UP is worse off than GR and that is a bad thing). Is the dress a heirloom? If so, then you called the bride, her mother and grandparents immodest hussies (that WILL be the impression especially. What is the wedding date (estimated)? If it is less than 6 months away, there is another problem. Bridal shops estimate it takes about 6 months from the day the dress is ordered to complete all alterations and order the right dress for weddings. If there is enough time and the shop nearby does NOT sell "appropriately modest dresses", are you going to personally pay the cost of shipping for an "appropriately modest dress" AND the cost of the alterations? What reason do you have to not trust the girl's father to make the call of what is and is not appropriate for his daughter to wear? And is modesty only confined to her dress? 

A personal note: I was married on the west coast in a big city. My pastor who married us saw no need to "preapprove the dress" but was more concerned with us building a strong relationship after The Day. My bridesmaids and I were fortunate to find non strapless dresses "off the rack" (and we had a large enough LD$ population to have a temple in town). My dress had spaghetti straps and all my bridesmaids and the flower girl wore sleeveless dresses (it was late summer and was quite warm). My pastor was able to present the gospel of Christ to my unbelieving family and friends without being "that guy who flipped out over spaghetti straps."


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## he beholds (Dec 24, 2008)

I wore a strapless wedding dress.


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## Wannabee (Dec 26, 2008)

No, it's not my daughter. As Lawrence shared, I have two sons.
I might be doing the wedding, but am not sure yet.
It is my son. If you'd like to read more about it, go to http://www.puritanboard.com/f32/looks-like-there-going-wedding-41709/.

Thanks for the links and perspectives on this.


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