# Defoe's Treatise on the Marriage Bed



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 16, 2007)

Daniel Defoe, _A Treatise Concerning the Use and Abuse of the Marriage Bed_


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 16, 2007)

Looks good!


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 16, 2007)

Having perused the work (thanks to Andrew here) I give it a mixed review.

There are certainly useful observations to be found within it. There is also proto-Victorianism, not to be confused (I think) with Puritanism.

He is quite right, for example, to inveigh against abuse of marriage, against what is certainly called "rape" if not for the name "marriage."

But he likewise castigates conjugal relations after conception (is detected) as nothing but prostitution, if not for the name "marriage." (I will only mention that there are _known biological advantages to those relations,_ even to be had late in pregnancy--provided the woman is not placed in discomfort).

He considers it a shame that an older woman, a widow who has her own means of maintenance, and past the years of child-birth, should desire marriage! That it is her evident shameful lack of continence or self-control that she should acknowledge her desire (or desirabilbity) and seek a husband. In a word, this is nonsense, and unbiblical.

Defoe acknowledges the ONLY (or at least the sole legitimizing) reason for marriage to be children. This view cannot be supported from Scripture. For the good in the book, I praise it. For the abuses it exposes, it is helpful. But how to tell the true abuses from the pretend? The book is not totally sound.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 16, 2007)

Thus basically, it holds merely historical value...not soundness, correct?


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## Pergamum (Jan 16, 2007)

..to be put up on the shelf or sold on ebay.......


Gimme something to read not from an old dead guy (probably in a powdered wig)...



I am reading Daniel Defoes historical account of the black plague on London...now THAT is a good read!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 16, 2007)

I agree with Bruce's critique in large measure. However, I think it is worth taking note of the following:

Defoe was a Presbyterian Dissenting Nonconformist, but I would not call him a Puritan. 

There are few books in the whole world that I could endorse without any qualification whatsoever. It is not exceptional to find that this book by Defoe would have its flaws.

I agree with Bruce that Defoe is wrong to advocate abstinence during pregnancy as a rule. 

Concerning the example given of the older woman (aged 50-60), this falls within a chapter on matches of "unsuitable" years. His example shows this older woman who is "casting her vitiated eyes" upon a young man of 25 or 30. The suggestion is that she is only desirous of marriage because she wants a young man's body. Defoe's conclusion that her desire will lead her to "matrimonial whoredom" is not without some merit, it seems to me, at least given this example with its emphasis on the vast disparity of age. I speak only of this one example and not as a rule as I note below.

I believe most are often too quick to judge a couple who are more than a few years apart in age, although I generally think it is better for the man to be older than the woman. I have found a number of interesting examples of age disparity in marriages of Reformers, Puritans and such, and William Gouge treats age disparity sympathetically in _Domestical Duties_. So on this point I think that Defoe's example goes astray (hence hard cases make bad laws). 

I also agree that "it is better to marry than to burn." People of all ages have needs and that is demonstrated by the example of Abraham and Sarah, among others. Procreation is a primary purpose of marriage as the WCF notes:



> 2. Marriage was ordained for the mutual help of husband and wife;a for the increase of mankind with a legitimate issue, and of the Church with an holy seed;b and for preventing of uncleanness.c
> 
> a. Gen 2:18. • b. Mal 2:15. • c. 1 Cor 7:2, 9.



but when providence hinders this aspect of marriage (whether by old age or barrenness) then there are still two other purposes of marriage which are consistent with matrimonial chastity, in my opinion.

To give Defoe credit, he does affirm those two other purposes of marriage: mutual help and prevention of uncleanness. However, his affirmation of those points is not sufficient to lead him to the right conclusion about the propriety of marital relations past menopause (which is: it's a good thing and not to be despised).

The great value of this book (beyond the cultural insights of his age -- remember he was writing _against_ the popular abuses of marriage in his day) is in his bringing to our attention the notion that just because a couple is married does not mean that any and all conduct is sanctioned in the bed. It is possible, he says, to defile the bed within the honourable estate of matrimony, just as without -- ie., there is such a thing as matrimonial unchastity.

But in my opinion chapter V is the most revelant portion of the book for people today, including Reformed Christians. People who want marriage without the consequences of having children and take steps to enjoy sexual relations while preventing conception have indeed abused and defiled the marriage bed. 

Defoe was a pioneering writer, a Presbyterian who suffered for his convictions, a useful historian of the Covenanters, but not a theologian. All of that is worth bearing in mind.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 16, 2007)

Thanks Andrew.

I thought you defended the best parts of this book well. And acknowledged its weaknesses.


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## jenney (Jan 16, 2007)

*OH!!!*



Contra_Mundum said:


> Thanks Andrew.



I've never looked at the signature line. I have always thought VirginiaHugenot was a woman! This totally makes me read all the posts with a different voice. Oh, weird feeling!



jenney


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 16, 2007)

LOL @ jenney...HuguenotHelpmeet is his wife if that helps


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 16, 2007)

jenney said:


> I've never looked at the signature line. I have always thought VirginiaHugenot was a woman! This totally makes me read all the posts with a different voice. Oh, weird feeling!
> 
> 
> 
> jenney



Yes, that has happened before <sigh>. 

You might want to check out this: Welcome to the Board! (Unofficial Primer). 



> 3. Virginia Hueguenot is not a fine lady named Virginia but a fine gentleman from Virgiania.



P.S. I think you mentioned that you once lived in Leesburg. I live in Warrenton, about 30 miles away.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 16, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinst threw me for the same loop.


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## Davidius (Jan 16, 2007)

LadyFlynt said:


> CarolinaCalvinst threw me for the same loop.



But I promise I didn't rip off Andrew's usage of his state when I made my PB handle!!

...not totally at least


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 16, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> But I promise I didn't rip off Andrew's usage of his state when I made my PB handle!!
> 
> ...not totally at least


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## lv1nothr (Jan 17, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Yes, that has happened before <sigh>.
> 
> You might want to check out this: Welcome to the Board! (Unofficial Primer).



I love that post!!


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## jenney (Jan 18, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> P.S. I think you mentioned that you once lived in Leesburg. I live in Warrenton, about 30 miles away.



Our church was in Warrenton. I could drive the highway 29-highway 15 route in my sleep.

It was one of the most lovely places I've ever been and I'll always miss NoVA! My husband worked for AOL in Dulles until his job got outsourced to Bangalore. Then we came to the Silicon Valley where the seasons are Sunny and Sunnier, the median 3br home price is $750K and "acreage" is only used to describe the Googleplex. *sigh*

My kids still joke that the John Denver song that starts out "almost heaven, West Virginia" says "_almost_ heaven" because WV is _almost_ Virginia.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 18, 2007)

jenney said:


> Our church was in Warrenton. I could drive the highway 29-highway 15 route in my sleep.
> 
> It was one of the most lovely places I've ever been and I'll always miss NoVA! My husband worked for AOL in Dulles until his job got outsourced to Bangalore. Then we came to the Silicon Valley where the seasons are Sunny and Sunnier, the median 3br home price is $750K and "acreage" is only used to describe the Googleplex. *sigh*



Cool! Was your church Covenant Reformed Baptist Church? We live only a few minutes away and I attended a wedding there last year.



> My kids still joke that the John Denver song that starts out "almost heaven, West Virginia" says "_almost_ heaven" because WV is _almost_ Virginia.


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