# An Eastern Orthodox Rebuke



## JOwen (Dec 18, 2004)

For the past two weeks our congregation has been blessed by the ministry of *Rev. Terrance Atkinson* (missionary to Italy and Greece) in our Midweek services. It has also been my personal pleasure to chauffeur him and his dear wife too and from the meetings. The lengthy drive has been a wonderful opportunity to discuss various subjects pertaining to the ministry, such as preaching, evangelism, and a topic which is very much on the tip of both our tongues... Martyn Lloyd-Jones. What a pleasure it has been for me to listen and learn from one of my favorite preachers.

Several things struck me while Rev. Atkinson was bringing the Word to us last week, but one thing in particular stood out from the rest. I don't even think it was during the formal meeting itself, but it occurred _after_ the message as we fellowshipped. We were on the topic of liturgy in the Church and how many young people in the Reformed Churches want to modernize the worship to become _more relevant_ to the society around us. Pastor Atkinson made the interesting observation that in the *Eastern Orthodox Church* their liturgy has not changed in over 1500 years. Yet their Churches are filled with young people! How can this be? I have given this considerable thought over the past two weeks as to why the Orthodox Church has not only maintained their liturgy for a millennia and a half, but managed to keep successive generations interested in the Church. Here are my thoughts:

** A reverence for God's Word above the opinions of men.*

I will not defend _most_ of Orthodoxy's liturgy, but I will commend them for their steadfastness to *principle*. They are not moved by the fickle fancies of modern society nor compelled to find acceptance in the kaleidescope of worldly opinions. Far too much time is spent in many Reformed Churches wondering what society will think of us instead of wondering what God will think of us. In the modern Church, we have become so enamored with the world's demand for the Church to be relevant, we have unavoidably deserted *our principles*. It is a perfect example of the tail wagging the dog. This should not be.

* * A passion for what is true.*

Right or wrong, the Orthodox believe *passionately*. There is an obvious burning desire which resides at their very core, compelling them to act with absolute affection. We find this same kind of dedication in growing cults such as the Jehovah's Wittinesses, and the Mormons. Why is it that these false religions have more passion _for a lie_ that many of us have for the truth? Part of the reason, I'm sure, is that the devil is not fighting them at every turn. He is more than willing to lend a helping hand as they distribute their lies. But is it not also the case that their_ passion_ for what the think is true motivates them to share and preach without regard of persecution or rejection? Yet how many of us bring Christ to our neighbour, our co-worker, and our friends? Do we really have a passion for what we say is true?

* * An intense spirituality.*

There is a soulish *spirituality* among the Orthodox that goes beyond their catechism and the Seven Ecumenical Councils. In other words, it is more than _just_ doctrine. One Puritan said, "œA man may be theologically _knowing_, and spiritually _ignorant_". Is this not the case in many Churches? We have a tendency in Reformed circles to so avoid the charismatic movement that we unavoidably forget that the Christian walk is a _spiritual journey_. Excess has bred contempt, and we no longer seek for the moving of the Spirit in any real way. We are satisfied with formalism, void of any heartfelt spirituality. When was the last time we prayed as Isaiah, _"œOh that thou wouldest rend the heavens, that thou wouldest come down, that the mountains might flow down at thy presence"_?

*What we need.*

What we need, we cannot conger up with programs and multimedia events. What we need are _sore knees and necks in prayer_. What we need is a re-acquaintance with the _principles_ that sparked a _passion_ of _spirituality_ that changed most of the know world at the time of Reformation. We should not try and recreate the Reformation, it will never happen like that. However, we have the same tools at our disposal that sparked the revivals of old. All we are missing is _principle, passion,_ and an intense _spirituality_, that says we desire the smiles of God more than the smiles of men.

Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Jerrold Lewis


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## Ianterrell (Dec 18, 2004)

I agree vehemently with you Jerrold, though I would qualify that there is always a segment that is attracted to traditionalism because it strokes their ego to be part of a group with exclusive tastes.


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## JOwen (Dec 18, 2004)

Ian,

I agree. Bigness can be a motivation. I was looking more at the ethereal reasons, and I think you spotted that. 

Kind regards,

Jerrold Lewis


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## SmokingFlax (Dec 19, 2004)

I read some things about the Eastern Orthodox recently...and another observation that (the author) made was that in EO churches *men* still are the dominant part of the congregation as opposed to the largely female dominated RC and Protestant churches.

I don't know what that says about your observations/points (JO) but it was something that I always noticed long before I came across this particular author while I attended charismatic churches. His thesis was that the western portion of the church has been thoroughly feminized beginning with the "bridal mysticism" of various monks and mystics in the middle ages.


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## JOwen (Dec 19, 2004)

Very interesting observation. Is there something written on it? Who is the author?

Kind regards,

Jerrold


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 19, 2004)

The introduction of relevancy to culture is a direct affect of neo-orthodoxy and liberalism (the Enlightenment and the Romantic Periods). So when you see that, you know the churches of today are not following the Bible at all. They are follwing innovative 21st century liberalism.


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## JOwen (Dec 19, 2004)

Jerrold


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## SmokingFlax (Dec 19, 2004)

Jerrold,

The book is The Church Impotent The Feminization of Christianity by Leon J. Podles.

I found it browsing through a used book store and I was intrigued by the subject matter so I grabbed it. It is not a reformed book. The author is (evidentally) a Roman Catholic so there will be things you object to but I think he is pretty fair in most respects. He is not defining "feminism" in the typical political sense that most are accustomed to but rather contrasting a feminine view of what the role of men is in Christianity and how it has caused a perception amongst men (manly men) that you must be a passive wimp to attain true spirituality (my paraphrase). 

Frankly, I have to agree with him on many points -from my own experience that is.


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## Puritan Sailor (Dec 19, 2004)

I think there are same valid points here. 

But, I think there are some other factors involved to these perceptions too. First, the EO, along with any other Christian variants were under severe oppression under communism. The product of such tyranny was two generations of atheists who are looking for meaning to life now that the Soviets have crumbled away. One way to do that has been to go back to your traditional roots, for Eastern Europe, that means EO. 

And I would be careful at trying to compare Reformed spirituality with the charasmatic movement. Passion is not always a good thing, especially when it leads to a lack of self-control (i.e. unbibilical tongues and prophecy, "slaying" in the spirit, barking in the spirit etc.). And passion can also lead to an unreasonable faith, a failure to test the spirits as we are commanded to do, which does require a more sober judgment. That doesn't mean that we shouldn't be firmly convinced, excited about, and devoted to the reformed faith, we should be. But we must remember those other fruits of the Spirit, i.e. self control, and that God has given us a Spirit of a sound mind. That is why we must be careful about comparing reformed spirituality to others. On the surface, it may appear that we are "frozen." But you have to look deeper to get to the real foundation, a deep reverence for the holiness of God, a people who daily struggle with the reality of indwelling sin, the intense demands of the law, the great yearning to please their heavenly Father, their great devotion to Christ when nothing else may make sense. These aren't things you will see immediately on the surface until you get to know these people and their struggles. That is why, for me, Puritan spirituality (and her descendents, i.e. Spurgeon, Archilbald Alexander, etc.) is so refreshing in light of the shallow spirituality of modern religions, be it charasmatic, EO, RC, etc.


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## JOwen (Dec 20, 2004)

I do not think it is a big deal that liturgy changes either. As long as it is within the confines of the Word of God. Sadly, most liturgical changes are a man centered- "let's get the masses crammed in here and fill this place up so we can look successful"- kind of changes. If a Session wishes to change the time, place or order of the service, I would not see a problem. But when we have our eyes on what the world wishes the Church to be, instead of what God wants his Church to be, we are in trouble. 

Kind regards,

Jerrold Lewis


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## Scott (Jan 7, 2005)

I am not sure what EO people you know or have seen, but from my reading they are largely nominalists, they are losing young people as badly as any other group, and they are oftenm more concerned with ethnic idenitity than religious truth. And, these are observations by EO of themselves. 

I have read a number of resources by EO and they acknowledge these problems. As you may know Frank Schaeffer (Francis' son) converted to EO. You might check out his Letters to Father Aristotle, in which he presents several criticisms of the nominal nature of their churches. 

Here is one online critique from Schaeffer about what he found went he became Orthodox:
http://www.thechristianactivist.com/vol3/SeductionOfOrthodoxy1.html

The odd thing is, if you read his conversion story, is that many of the problems that led him to leave the Protestant world are present in Orthodoxy as well (such as lack of effect on culture).

Scott


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## Scott (Jan 7, 2005)

BTW, I am not banging Orthodoxy. They suffer from many of the same ills that we Protestants do. I wish they had transcended them.


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## Scott (Jan 7, 2005)

"Pastor Atkinson made the interesting observation that in the Eastern Orthodox Church their liturgy has not changed in over 1500 years. Yet their Churches are filled with young people!"

You know, one interesting point is that when the church was the most vibrant and growing (the early church pre-Constantine), it was the least user-friendly. Initiation into the church was hard to achieve. The liturgy was difficult and required instruction for participation. Orthodoxy retains some of that (in spite of its errors).

Scott


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## fredtgreco (Jan 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> "Pastor Atkinson made the interesting observation that in the Eastern Orthodox Church their liturgy has not changed in over 1500 years. Yet their Churches are filled with young people!"
> 
> You know, one interesting point is that when the church was the most vibrant and growing (the early church pre-Constantine), it was the least user-friendly. Initiation into the church was hard to achieve. The liturgy was difficult and required instruction for participation. Orthodoxy retains some of that (in spite of its errors).
> ...



But there is also the fact that the Eastern Church saw growth in the Balkans in the 7th-9th centuries because they did not require a Latin liturgy like the West. While formal, their worship was actually more accessible and "contextualized for the culture."


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## JOwen (Jan 7, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> I am not sure what EO people you know or have seen, but from my reading they are largely nominalists, they are losing young people as badly as any other group, and they are oftenm more concerned with ethnic idenitity than religious truth.
> Scott



Hello Scott,

The Orthodox context in which I am speaking is that of Palestine, Africa, Greece, Ukraine and Russia. Rev. Atkinson is a missionary to Greece.

Kind regards,
Jerrold


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## Scott (Jan 7, 2005)

Fred: Yeah, I am speaking of the current situation in America. EO has done allot of good things. And the lack of uder friendliness I mentioned did not involve a foreign language.

Jerrold: Thanks - that it interesting.


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