# Laptops in the Classroom?



## ReadBavinck (Jan 17, 2006)

I hope to attend seminary soon. I know a lot of people like to use laptops for notetaking (or recording audio) and probably other reasons. How important do you think it is to have one? I need to decide between a laptop and a desktop.


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by CJ_Chelpka_
> I hope to attend seminary soon. I know a lot of people like to use laptops for notetaking (or recording audio) and probably other reasons. How important do you think it is to have one? I need to decide between a laptop and a desktop.



Christopher,

I think it is invaluable. If given the choice between a laptop and desktop again, I will always take the laptop. The only real downside is extreme processor speed. You can get laptops that are reasonably priced (under $1000), but they just cannot do what a desktop can with gaming and video editing especially. But they can do almost anything else well. You could always hook a monitor up to it at home, or even a full size keyboard and mouse.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 17, 2006)

how much do full size keyboards to laptops cost?


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> how much do full size keyboards to laptops cost?



You could likely get one for $5 on sale. You just get a regular keyboard that has a USB connection. Or you can get a PS2/USB adaptor. PS2 is teh "normal" mouse/keyboard connection. If you need one, I think I have like 4. One comes with every keyboard.

[Edited on 1/17/2006 by fredtgreco]


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## RamistThomist (Jan 17, 2006)

a PS2 is like the cord/middle man that unites keyboard and computer?


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## fredtgreco (Jan 17, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> a PS2 is like the cord/middle man that unites keyboard and computer?



Yes. It is circular with a bunch (say 8) of pins that go in the slot. You see a PS2 connection on the back of every desktop. Usually they are color coded - purple for keyboard, green for mouse.


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## Archlute (Jan 17, 2006)

As a student who takes notes by hand, it can be pretty distracting to hear 25 keyboards all clattering along at the same time (a plea for consideration of the minority!). 

That being said, I really do not think that you would be at a disadvantage without a laptop for note taking in class. One professor here told me that some of his best students have been those who take notes by hand. He felt that their essays displayed a cogency that was superior to brains plugged in to a whirring machine (my paraphrase, don't fault him), and that they tended to have sharper listening skills.

To one classmate, who is somewhat of an arrogant techno-geek when it comes to equating hardware with GPA, he said, "It doesn't matter what you have in there (pointing to the laptop), it matters what you've stored up here (pointing to the head)."

I think you have to watch out for a false sense of security in storing up reams of information on computer and audio. It can be of help for future reference, but in itself does not mean that you've mastered those subjects. My two cents.


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## ReadBavinck (Jan 17, 2006)

Hey Adam,

It was at WSC that I saw so many students with laptops. It seemed like some were taking notes onto pre-made professor lecture outlines. Could that be so? If so, what do you think about that?


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## Plimoth Thom (Jan 18, 2006)

I prefer note taking by hand. I was recently in a class where many of the students were from another seminary and took notes on their laptops. The professor sent them the lecture outline ahead of time and they were able to fill it in during class, but not all professors do that. I noticed many of these laptop note taking students had very poor punctuation and spelling, as they attempted to keep up with everything the professor said. I find that when note taking by hand my notes might be shorter, but they're boiled down to the core thoughts and ideas from the lecture, and no typos. It forces you to think more about what is being said; while the guy with the laptop is furiously trying to type everything the professor is saying, without really thinking about what is being said. But of course this doesn't always have to be the case, just what I've observed.

[Edited on 1-18-2006 by Plimoth Thom]


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## Mike (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm an Engineering major, so notes on laptop isn't really an option for me. I've done so in one class as of yet. It helped with my extreme disorganization, but not much else.



> _Originally posted by Plimoth Thom_
> I noticed many of these laptop note taking students had very poor punctuation and spelling


I don't see how this is a big deal in notes.



> as they attempted to keep up with everything the professor said. I find that when note taking by hand my notes might be shorter, but they're boiled down to the core thoughts and ideas from the lecture, and no typos. It forces you to think more about what is being said; while the guy with the laptop is furiously trying to type everything the professor is saying, without really thinking about what is being said. But of course this doesn't always have to be the case, just what I've observed.


The last remark is key. Their problem is not laptops, it is horrible note taking skills. In non-technical classes, I've sometimes been asked for copies of my notes and gotten complaints about how they made no sense. My notes are a memory tool, not a transcript, as they should be.


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## SolaScriptura (Jan 18, 2006)

I love my laptop. I can go anywhere and work on papers. It is great!


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## BrianBowman (Jan 18, 2006)

I began taking notes on a Laptop in early 1996 in the Dispensational Bible College that I attended at night and in the early morning - while working full-time. This was after a semester of taking all notes for Old Testament Survey by hand. I was 35 at the time and after all that note taking by hand, I got to the point where it was very difficult to write with any speed or neatly. I'm a touch typist and can probably type ("out of my head") at about 50-60 WPM. The Church's Deaf Ministry profited greatly from my notes.

Hands down, I would use a Laptop in the classroom if ever I take classes again. I'm also visually impaired, even with glasses. Thus, the use of Bible Sofware is a necessity because the fonts an be enlarged for comfortable reading - especially for the original texts.

Currently, I'm beginning to use Mellel and Bookends on the Mac. Bookends is a powerful Reference tool that allows for the organization and seaching of literally 1000's upon 1000's for reference notes for research writing, etc. It integrates wonderfull with Mellel - a very powerful word processing program that also supports native right-to-left Hebrew. I'm using these two programs, in conjunction with Accordance Bible Software (simply the best I've every seen) to exposit a number of "classic" books starting with Luther's _Bondage of the Will_ and Owen's _The Death of Death in the Death of Christ_.

For the past 23 years, I've been involved in some very "Geek-friendly" data management-related software-engineering projects. The literally exponential "explosion" of information makes Reference Tools like "Bookends" a virtual necessity for today's scholar.

However even with all of this wonderful technology, the thing I love the most is reading on our North Carolina front porch in the Spring or spending time on my knees with a Large Print ESV!

[Edited on 1-18-2006 by BrianBowman]


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## Plimoth Thom (Jan 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mike_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What I meant was, that they ended up with paragraphs that were just blobs of words (often mispelled) thrown together without periods, or separatations between thoughts. When you come back to these notes later, how does one make sense of them? But like I said before, not every laptop not taker does it like this.

[Edited on 1-18-2006 by Plimoth Thom]


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## BrianBowman (Jan 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Plimoth Thom_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Mike_
> ...



... the "prudent student" goes home at the end of classes and edits his/her notes.


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## kevin.carroll (Jan 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_ I think it is invaluable.



I couldn't agree more. If it weren't for the running dialogue of instant messages Fred and I send back and forth or being able to cruise the Puritan Board during lectures, I would have long ago hanged myself.


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## matt01 (Jan 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Plimoth Thom_
> I noticed many of these laptop note taking students had very poor punctuation and spelling



wht u b tlkin abot? 

We spend so much time making life easier, that we forget the need for the basics. Though I use them on occasion, I still believe that spell checkers and all that jazz will be the death of our society.


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## Plimoth Thom (Jan 18, 2006)

I'm such an old fashioned historian I'm thinking about getting rid of my ballpoint BiC and lined paper and going to quill, inkwell and handmade laid paper.

But seriously, I believe the handwritten word is becoming a dying art. In the future there'll be living historians interpreting the ancient art of writing by hand.


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## Puritanhead1981 (Jan 18, 2006)

As one who does not have the ability to write by hand at length and who has had to use a laptop since 5th grade I can say from experience that learning to take good notes on a laptop is a skill in and of itself, It took me about two years with MS Works to find a way that really worked for me, Trust me when I was some of the new programs out there are great, Also as someone who is slowly losing their site the new text to voice and audio stuff is great, 


Never take the simple tasks for granted if I could take handwritten notes and write a simple note to my family or friends I would


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## crhoades (Jan 19, 2006)

Tablet PC and Microsoft One Note. Best of both worlds. One Note has a neat feature that you can record audio while you take hand written notes. You can then click on anywhere where you were writing and skip to that part of the recorded audio. Then you can go and transcribe your notes and fill in gaps later. The other nice thing is that depending on how neat your handwriting is, it will convert to text. Upshot is no keyboard clatter. I use it in meetings regularly for business and it works great!


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## Archlute (Jan 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by CJ_Chelpka_
> Hey Adam,
> 
> It was at WSC that I saw so many students with laptops. It seemed like some were taking notes onto pre-made professor lecture outlines. Could that be so? If so, what do you think about that?




Chris, 

If one is discussing the real benefits of laptop use in class, what you have noted above would be one of them. Hand written notes can be jumbled if the professor diverges from his posted outline, but on a laptop all you have to do is hop from one point of the outline to another and insert the lecture material in its appropriate place. Many of the profs are now placing their course material onto disc format, so instead of having to type the outline up beforehand a student merely has to insert the disc and work from there. 

One of the drawbacks that might be mentioned here (unless you have a "notepad" type laptop, which allows you to write on the screen) is that theological diagrams, timelines, and Greek/Hebrew fonts are difficult to incorporate. The language fonts can be overcome by setting up quick key commands on your computer that will allow you to switch back and forth between the characters with ease.

Hope that helps.


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## ReadBavinck (Jan 19, 2006)

Interesting comments. I appreciate all your thoughts.



> _Originally posted by Archlute_
> One of the drawbacks that might be mentioned here (unless you have a "notepad" type laptop, which allows you to write on the screen) is that theological diagrams, timelines, and Greek/Hebrew fonts are difficult to incorporate. The language fonts can be overcome by setting up quick key commands on your computer that will allow you to switch back and forth between the characters with ease.
> 
> Hope that helps.



Adam, how often would one come across this problem? especially, the timelines, charts, etc. I can see this being a point where written notes definitely beat the computer. Also, I've only used a keyboard for english. How difficult is it to find the letters you want in another language? Would I have to memorize two new keypads? I doubt I would be speedy at that.


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## VictorBravo (Jan 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Plimoth Thom_
> I'm such an old fashioned historian I'm thinking about getting rid of my ballpoint BiC and lined paper and going to quill, inkwell and handmade laid paper.
> 
> But seriously, I believe the handwritten word is becoming a dying art. In the future there'll be living historians interpreting the ancient art of writing by hand.



I'm not so retro, but I always carry my alternative palm pilot:

http://www.officedepot.com/ddSKU.do?level=SK&id=820530&&An=text

In depositions I've taken notes by the legal pad approach and the laptop approach. I find that I can watch the witness and get a better feeling for how the testimony is going if I use a notepad. It just seems that I can better get my impressions down with a few strokes of a pen. I use my own form of abbreviations and the notes are probably almost useless for someone else. But it takes me longer to write up a deposition summary.

I think you should go with what your are comfortable with. I can type up to 90wpm, but when I'm doing that I'm not in an evaluation mode. For me, the physical act of typing detracts from my ability to grasp concepts, so I would have to try to catch everything accurately so I could read it later.

Vic


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## Archlute (Jan 19, 2006)

Chris,

It depends on the course. In the prolegomena to systematic theology, where various philosophical systems were being discussed, diagrams occured somewhat frequently. In Hebrew and Aramaic based courses they can occur a bit more when chiasms or other literary structures are being examined. In other courses it is not a problem at all, because some profs either have the diagrams/charts/timelines in their readers, or they don't use any for that particular subject.

I suppose that one could always scratch them down on the blank places in their syllabus/reader, or one could keep a couple of sheets of paper handy next to their computer for the same purpose. 

Regarding having to learn the keyboard layout for the language fonts, I didn't even consider that beast! Yes, you do have to memorize two seperate layouts for the Hebrew and Greek characters, and some of the correlations between the English key symbol and the Heb/Grk symbols are quite unconnected. I am fairly proficient in using them, but only because I have been doing so for the past several years in my papers and studies. It would be a real trial to use them in class without that familiarity. Sorry that I hadn't considered that point.


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## Archlute (Jan 19, 2006)

Hey Chris, I just noticed in your profile that you plan on attending school out here at WSC. Do you have a timeline set yet? Also, when did you visit? I may have shook your hand and said hello!


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## ReadBavinck (Jan 20, 2006)

Adam,

My wife, a friend, and I visited the seminary in mid-October. I hope to move out this summer and start attending classes in the fall. I submitted my application early this month. Now, I'm waiting to see what, if any, financial aid is offered. I'll be able to make some more concrete decisions after hearing from the seminary. 

Although, I am so eager to go I am considering just going part-time if we can't afford a full load to start. If we haven't met I hope to meet you soon!


Christopher

[Edited on 1-20-2006 by CJ_Chelpka]

[Edited on 1-20-2006 by CJ_Chelpka]


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