# How should a preacher dress in the pulpit?



## Josh Williamson

G'day All!

I was wondering what your thoughts are on how the preacher should dress while preaching? At this stage I generally preach in a dress shirt and jeans, but I've been thinking about wearing a suit and tie. Just wondering what everyone's thoughts are on "Preaching Dress Code". 

Thanks in advance!

Josh


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## Peairtach

He should always wear some clothes lest his nakedness be exposed.


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## Andres

Culture/context is probably going to influence the answer the most, but I've grown quite fond of the Geneva gown. 

The following is from Wikipedia of all places, but it's a nice summary of why the gown is a great choice: 



> Worn over street clothes, traditionally a cassock but today more commonly a business suit with or without clerical collar, the gown eschews ostentation, obscuring individual grooming and concealing fashion preferences, and instead draws attention to the wearer's office and not the person.


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## Wayne

Nothing religious about the Genevan gown, at least not originally. It was an academic robe.



> THE FIRST BLOW IS STRUCK AGAINST CLERGY VESTMENTS
> 
> It was not Martin Luther who first attacked the practice of clergy wearing ornate vestments. Andreas Karlstadt was a compatriot of Luther's--a professor at the University of Wittenberg, who had awarded the Doctorate to Martin Luther and spoke at Luther's side during the great debates at the Universities which followed Luther's challenge to the Church.
> While Luther hid from the Pope's representatives in the Wartburg Castle, Karlstadt proceeded with radical changes in the worship service at the Castle Church in Wittenberg.
> 
> Christmas Day 1521, Andreas Karlstadt performed a "Mass" like nothing ever seen before in Germany. He had rewritten the Mass in a simplified version which he proceeded to utter in German. For the congregation this would have been their first experience hearing the Mass in their own language. For the first time he gave the bread and wine into the very hands of the people.
> 
> Karlstadt rejected the traditional clergy vestments and adopted instead his 'regular clothes'. Because he was a Professor he wore his black academic gown. Roland Bainton described this remarkable event as "officiating without vestments in a plain black robe".
> 
> When Luther heard what Karlstadt had done he was furious. Luther believed in reform but not in revolution. He felt that changes should be proceeded with in an orderly fashion and with full approval of the representatives of the people. Karlstadt had no approval at all for his action.
> 
> The black gown, which Karlstadt had initiated, appeared with various local modifications all over Europe. Luther himself wore the black gown three years later.
> 
> It is the height of irony that Andreas Karlstadt, who first wore the academic gown in place of clergy vestments, was later to become dissatisfied with this change. He came to believe that academics were as far removed from the people as the clergy. He then rejected the concept of university degrees and titles. He rejected the academic gown in favour of peasants' garb and took up a farming vocation. He wanted to be called simply "Brother Andreas".
> But by this time even Luther had adopted the black academic gown.



Source: CLERGY VESTMENTS


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## Filipe Luiz C. Machado

Hi, Josh.

We need to understand that the wear is just to hide our nakedness - is not a saint wear [like the anglicans think]. Here in Brazil [especially in my city] we have s a very hot weather, which prevents [sometimes] the use of hard clothes. I don´t think so that we have a rule to "what is the correct wear", but I think that all the clothes be discrete and appropriated to the local place. Of course that if we have in the beach, we are not using only swimwear [it could be a "stumbling block" *I don´t know what is the correct expression in english to it, sorry* to the congregation], but we´ll still put some t-shirt to preach. But we need going carefully on it, because unusual clothes maybe say to all the congregation that this moment are not saint, just a meeting to hear and read the word of God. Likewise, the hard clothes may to give the impression that the preacher is a saint and not a sinner.

So, I think that the moderation in all the times needs to be follow - for the Glory of God and not the man´s glory.


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## Kevin

Your context & culture will determine the answer.

If I am preaching in an established church with a pulpit I wear a suit or a sport coat & tie, depending on where they are located. In some I wear I wear a clergy shirt & suit.

@ my church plant I wear jeans & a collared shirt, never with a tie.

The key point is that how you dress should never distract people from your message. You can do that by being too casual, or too formal.


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## Reformed Thomist

View attachment 2149

With nothing underneath.


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## kodos

Something low-key that doesn't distract the congregation with flashiness, "coolness" or make them think the preacher is "trying too hard". I would say that anything that bears witness to the preacher's personality (something that is happening in most evangelical churches) should be something to be avoided. The preacher is a herald of the King, and it is to the King that we are to draw all attention to.

For what it's worth, I too have grown quite fond of the Geneva Gown.


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## jfschultz

I agree that the local culture is a major factor.

As for areas where "European" culture is a norm, I favor the Genevan gown as a "uniform" or badge of office. It sets the man apart as being the preacher presenting the Word of God and not just the guy you went to the ball game with the day before.


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## Hamalas

Appropriately.


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## ericfromcowtown

Reverently, but as others note, this will be culturally dictated. I don't think hip t-shirt and ripped jeans will ever be reverent, but far be it from us to exhort an indigenous Nigerian or Samoan pastor to necessarily wear a suit and tie if that's not appropriate and reverent in their cultural setting.


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## rbcbob

The pastor should dress in a manner commensurate with his culture's custom of respectful attire. In every culture there is a way to dress so as to express respect for the dignity of him whose house we have entered. If he be of royalty then his visitors will dress accordingly, and the local citizenry will recognize the respect given.


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## Scottish Lass

jfschultz said:


> It sets the man apart as being the preacher presenting the Word of God and not just the guy you went to the ball game with the day before.



Doesn't his physical location (up front, possibly behind a lectern in a pulpit, etc.) set him apart? If most of the men in the church wear suits, the preacher would not be distinguished by wearing a suit.


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## Marrow Man

Filipe Luiz C. Machado said:


> Hi, Josh.
> 
> We need to understand that the wear is just to hide our nakedness - is not a saint wear [like the anglicans think]. Here in Brazil [especially in my city] we have s a very hot weather, which prevents [sometimes] the use of hard clothes. I don´t think so that we have a rule to "what is the correct wear", but I think that all the clothes be discrete and appropriated to the local place. Of course that if we have in the beach, we are not using only swimwear [it could be a "stumbling block" *I don´t know what is the correct expression in english to it, sorry* to the congregation], but we´ll still put some t-shirt to preach. But we need going carefully on it, because unusual clothes maybe say to all the congregation that this moment are not saint, just a meeting to hear and read the word of God. Likewise, the hard clothes may to give the impression that the preacher is a saint and not a sinner.
> 
> So, I think that the moderation in all the times needs to be follow - for the Glory of God and not the man´s glory.



Please fix your signature (see link in my signature below).


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## Marrow Man

rbcbob said:


> The pastor should dress in a manner commensurate with his culture's custom of respectful attire. In every culture there is a way to dress so as to express respect for the dignity of him whose house we have entered. If he be of royalty then his visitors will dress accordingly, and the local citizenry will recognize the respect given.


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## SolaScriptura

I wear a suit when I preach, though occasionally I take off the jacket.


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## SRoper

The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.


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## Scott1

Dress "up" for your context.

If you dress "up" the people will tend to follow. By showing a separation for a holier purpose, you will lead toward that atmosphere. Setting the tone from the top for that doesn't, of course, mean every person will follow, or that they ought necessarily be judged for that (e.g. James 1, and favoritism away from the truly poor, comes to mind).

But many people will take a casual attitude toward the holiness of the Word, God's presence, the sacraments and focus more on the egocentric, because that's in the sin nature to do. Set a tone away from that and the "commonness" of other worldly tasks. And, don't forget to, in the ordinary course of things, preach on modesty- behavior and dress. Sorely needed in our generation.

A casual or provocative dress will lend itself toward a casual attitude, or toward undue attention to self, neither conducive for the holiness of corporate worship.


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## NB3K

Dress in a way that will not make you or your clothes a distraction from the Word that is being preached.


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## Joseph Scibbe

It would be inappropriate to charge pastors with a duty (dressing a certain way) that the Scripture does not command. Context is key in this. My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.


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## Jack K

Josh Williamson said:


> How should a preacher dress in the pulpit?



It seems I answered this exact question here about a year ago. But I will reply again, lest an important point be missed:

A preacher should dress at home before he gets to church, not in the pulpit.


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## Scottish Lass

Joseph Scibbe said:


> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.



Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?


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## Joseph Scibbe

Scottish Lass said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
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> Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?
Click to expand...


At one of our campuses I actually saw a lady with a headcovering and dress. I could ask the same question about your church. Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos? Why would the circumstances of worship not be flexible to allow creativity and the surrounding culture to influence the circumstances of worship?


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## Scottish Lass

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos?



I doubt it. We have everything from shorts/jeans to traditional African dress to suits to those who cover--all in a congregation numbering fewer than fifty.

Seeing one woman dressed that way doesn't mean it's not considered to look foolish.


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## rbcbob

Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?


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## Joseph Scibbe

rbcbob said:


> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?



So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?


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## raekwon

I preached this past Sunday and wore a pair of dark grey chinos with a plaid button-down (similar to the one I'm wearing in my profile pic). Preaching again this week and will probably wear something similar (except probably with a "nice" pair of jeans instead of the chinos). And, I wear something comparable on Sundays that I'm not preaching, and most of the time during the week.

We took on this topic recently over at Vintage73, if anyone's interested: Why is the Pastor Wearing That?! | Vintage73.com | Vintage73.com

---------- Post added at 02:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:15 PM ----------




rbcbob said:


> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?



Oh, we know where this train goes... ;-)


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## Joseph Scibbe

Scottish Lass said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos?
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> I doubt it. We have everything from shorts/jeans to traditional African dress to suits to those who cover--all in a congregation numbering fewer than fifty.
> 
> Seeing one woman dressed that way doesn't mean it's not considered to look foolish.
Click to expand...


To answer your question: You would look out of somewhat place yes but we have a pretty wide swath of dress styles across our church.


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## Andres

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Scottish Lass said:
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> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At one of our campuses I actually saw a lady with a headcovering and dress. I could ask the same question about your church. Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos? Why would the circumstances of worship not be flexible to allow creativity and the surrounding culture to influence the circumstances of worship?
Click to expand...


Tight jeans? Please tell me you don't mean skinny jeans like these. View attachment 2150 And why do you say Driscoll would look foolish in a Geneva gown? I think he'd look quite respectable.


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## Joseph Scibbe

Andres said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> Scottish Lass said:
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> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At one of our campuses I actually saw a lady with a headcovering and dress. I could ask the same question about your church. Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos? Why would the circumstances of worship not be flexible to allow creativity and the surrounding culture to influence the circumstances of worship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tight jeans? Please tell me you don't mean skinny jeans like these. View attachment 2150
Click to expand...


No, not skinny like those. I look terrible in skinny jeans.


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## Andres

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Andres said:
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> Scottish Lass said:
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> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
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> 
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> 
> Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At one of our campuses I actually saw a lady with a headcovering and dress. I could ask the same question about your church. Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos? Why would the circumstances of worship not be flexible to allow creativity and the surrounding culture to influence the circumstances of worship?
> 
> Click to expand...
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> Tight jeans? Please tell me you don't mean skinny jeans like these. View attachment 2150
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> Click to expand...
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> No, not skinny like those. I look terrible in skinny jeans.
Click to expand...


Good. Every man looks terrible in those. Joseph, I edited my above comment, so you may not have seen it, but why do you say Driscoll would look completely foolish if he wore a Geneva gown? I think he'd look quite respectable.


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## Joseph Scibbe

Andres said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> Scottish Lass said:
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> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At one of our campuses I actually saw a lady with a headcovering and dress. I could ask the same question about your church. Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos? Why would the circumstances of worship not be flexible to allow creativity and the surrounding culture to influence the circumstances of worship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tight jeans? Please tell me you don't mean skinny jeans like these. View attachment 2150
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> Click to expand...
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> 
> No, not skinny like those. I look terrible in skinny jeans.
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> Click to expand...
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> Good. Every man looks terrible in those. Joseph, I edited my above comment, so you may not have seen it, but why do you say Driscoll would look completely foolish if he wore a Geneva gown? I think he'd look quite respectable.
Click to expand...


Again, I think it comes down to the context. In Seattle, no one wears a gown and it would alienate him from the congregtion. It would actually be a distraction to many people that come to Mars Hill.


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## raekwon

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Again, I think it comes down to the context. *In Seattle, no one wears a gown* and it would alienate him from the congregtion. It would actually be a distraction to many people that come to Mars Hill.



Well...

Exile Presbyterian Church

Just sayin'.


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## Zach

I think both the Pastor and the attendees should dress themselves in a manner worthy of whose house they are going to. Forgive me for sounding post-modern, but that looks differently for everyone. Some will show their reverence and humility by wearing a Geneva gown and others something less formal. All the formality in the world would not be good enough for God, so dress should be less about formality than conveying a respect and reverence for God.

On a side note, I saw Piper preach in a Geneva gown on Ligonier Sunday at St. Andrew's Chapel and I swear it was like 4 sizes too big for him. It was certainly different to see him preach in one, but I wouldn't say he looked foolish. I'm with Andrew in saying that Driscoll would look respectable in a Geneva gown.


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## Andres

Joseph Scibbe said:


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> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Are you connecting the pastor's dress solely to reflect the congregation? Should this be true for all circumstances (not elements) of worship? Would I, in a dress and headcovering, "look completely foolish" in your congregation?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> At one of our campuses I actually saw a lady with a headcovering and dress. I could ask the same question about your church. Would I look foolish and out of place in "tight" jeans, black hoodie, plaid shirt, chuck taylors, and tattoos? Why would the circumstances of worship not be flexible to allow creativity and the surrounding culture to influence the circumstances of worship?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tight jeans? Please tell me you don't mean skinny jeans like these. View attachment 2150
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> No, not skinny like those. I look terrible in skinny jeans.
> 
> Click to expand...
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> 
> Good. Every man looks terrible in those. Joseph, I edited my above comment, so you may not have seen it, but why do you say Driscoll would look completely foolish if he wore a Geneva gown? I think he'd look quite respectable.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Again, I think it comes down to the context. In Seattle, no one wears a gown and it would alienate him from the congregtion. It would actually be a distraction to many people that come to Mars Hill.
Click to expand...


By no one, whom do you mean? No one who attends the church? Well I doubt any attendee other than the pulpit minister would be wearing a gown, so that doesn't make sense. Do you mean no other ministers? I've never been to Seattle but I find it hard to believe that no other minister in the whole city of 3 million people doesn't wear a robe. As far as the gown being a distraction, I just don't buy it. How in the world would that be a distraction?


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## raekwon

It'd certainly be a distraction for a while, anyway, considering the culture of MHC. Folks could get used to it, but I just don't see it happening, considering his previous quips about "dudes in dresses" (referring to ministers in gowns). 

Not really a big deal either way, though, since Scripture doesn't exactly dictate what a pastor is to wear.


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## Constantlyreforming

raekwon said:


> It'd certainly be a distraction for a while, anyway, considering the culture of MHC. Folks could get used to it, but I just don't see it happening, considering his previous quips about "dudes in dresses" (referring to ministers in gowns).
> 
> Not really a big deal either way, though, since Scripture doesn't exactly dictate what a pastor is to wear.




I agree...scripture doesn't have anything to say regarding what a pastor is to wear. Interestingly, Christ does talk about how we should not give special attention to one who comes into the congregation who wears nice linens and has fine things. That would be one argument for trying to not draw special attention to oneself with a Ralph Lauren $10,000 suit. However, the martyrs are clothed in fine robes in heaven (Romans 8). I can see where coming to worship, we would seek to honor God with the best of what we have. It would make sense to me to wear my best Jeans if that's all I had as a congregant, and it would make sense to me to wear my best suit if I had suits. If I can get dressed up for my job during the week, shouldn't I give my God the same honor and respect as I do my employer? 

In regard to the pastors, though, I'd argue that a robe or a suit has in the past been symbolic of the education and time it has taken for them to get to the point where they have been in the position over a congregation. Wearing a pair of shorts and a Hawaiian shirt will likely be too distracting for many people who have come to worship God. I believe a suit to be the least distracting, and will get in the way of worship the least. The focus is to be on Christ, regardless of the outfit of the preacher. 

Really, the attire of the preacher should be no more distracting than the accent he has.


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## raekwon

Oh hey, Ethan. I didn't see you there.


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## Constantlyreforming

raekwon said:


> Oh hey, Ethan. I didn't see you there.



I found that post helpful.


:thumbs up:


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## Rich Koster

in my opinion clothes should be clean, modest and a non-distraction. Personally, I'm tired of some people pretending that Christianity is a rich man's religion by instituting dress codes.


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## fredtgreco

SRoper said:


> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.


Ironically, in most modern American churches, the Genevan gown would not identify the office of pastor, and would be a distraction about sartorial choice.


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## SolaScriptura

fredtgreco said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, in most modern American churches, the Genevan gown would not identify the office of pastor, and would be a distraction about sartorial choice.
Click to expand...


I agree. Ironically, in our culture many attribute to it the very ostentatiousness that proponents of its use here are saying it avoids.
I think that wearing a decent but modest professional clothing sends the kind of message that is in keeping with the point that was being made by going to the academic gown in the first place.


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## Andres

fredtgreco said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, in most modern American churches, the Genevan gown would not identify the office of pastor, and would be a distraction about sartorial choice.
Click to expand...


I disagree. How would it not identify the minister? Is he not sitting up on the stage and leading the entire service? Isn't it a bit obvious when the man in the robe preaches the sermon that he's the minister? Sure, perhaps modern evangelicals aren't used to the gown, but I still don't see how it's a distraction. Are we Americans really that dumb?


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## fredtgreco

SolaScriptura said:


> fredtgreco said:
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> SRoper said:
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> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.
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> Ironically, in most modern American churches, the Genevan gown would not identify the office of pastor, and would be a distraction about sartorial choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I agree. Ironically, in our culture many attribute to it the very ostentatiousness that proponents of its use here are saying it avoids.
> I think that wearing a decent but modest professional clothing sends the kind of message that is in keeping with the point that was being made by going to the academic gown in the first place.
Click to expand...

Yes, buttressed by the fact that the "academic gown" is no longer ever used in the academy.


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## fredtgreco

Andres said:


> fredtgreco said:
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> SRoper said:
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> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.
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> Ironically, in most modern American churches, the Genevan gown would not identify the office of pastor, and would be a distraction about sartorial choice.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I disagree. How would it not identify the minister? Is he not sitting up on the stage and leading the entire service? Isn't it a bit obvious when the man in the robe preaches the sermon that he's the minister? Sure, perhaps modern evangelicals aren't used to the gown, but I still don't see how it's a distraction. Are we Americans really that dumb?
Click to expand...

The point being made about the gown is that _per se_ it identifies the minister. Your point could be made with the minister wearing an Hawaiian shirt.

The gown is a distraction because no one, anywhere, ever, wears a gown outside of those in the pulpit who choose to wear one.


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## Scottish Lass

Andres said:


> How would it not identify the minister? Is he not sitting up on the stage and leading the entire service? Isn't it a bit obvious when the man in the robe preaches the sermon that he's the minister? Sure, perhaps modern evangelicals aren't used to the gown, but I still don't see how it's a distraction. Are we Americans really that dumb?



Again, I think his location does that for him as much as his clothes might. A gown might be a temporary distraction for someone unused to the sight, but I imagine the person would recover eventually. And yes, many Americans react negatively to whatever doesn't fit their preconceived notions of how things should be.


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## AThornquist

Depends on if the preacher is a man or woman.


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## Philip

Joseph Scibbe said:


> rbcbob said:
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> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?
> 
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> 
> So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?
Click to expand...


Tuxedos are not worn to church ever. Morning dress is the appropriate formal attire. Tuxedos and other evening attire are never to be worn on the Lord's Day. Even at weddings, evening attire is a technical faux pas.


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## Joseph Scibbe

P. F. Pugh said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
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> rbcbob said:
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> 
> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tuxedos are not worn to church ever. Morning dress is the appropriate formal attire. Tuxedos and other evening attire are never to be worn on the Lord's Day. Even at weddings, evening attire is a technical faux pas.
Click to expand...


I was merely pointing out the problem with his question. Also, where in scripture does it prohibit wearing a tuxedo on Sunday?


----------



## Philip

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Also, where in scripture does it prohibit wearing a tuxedo on Sunday?



Nowhere---just in etiquette manuals. Tuxedos and other evening attire are worn for entertaining, theater, and at clubs. However, since these activities were traditionally not done on the Lord's Day, evening attire was traditionally deemed incorrect on it at all times. The correct attire for a formal Church service, historically would have been morning dress (long since abandoned in the US---Ronald Reagan was the last President to wear it for his inauguration).

And yes, I am a bit of a nerd when it comes to this.


----------



## Don Kistler

Rather than mandate specifics, such as a Geneva gown or a suit, ought it not to be something that manifests the regard the preacher has for his calling and the dignity of the office? When I preached in Hawaii, I was told NOT to wear a tie since "only lawyers and undertakers wear ties here." So I did not do so (and felt uncomfortable in the not doing so). But it is my conviction that the preacher makes a statement to his congregation and his God by his apparel, so let that statement be that he believes what he is doing is of eternal significance.


----------



## rbcbob

Joseph Scibbe said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?
Click to expand...


Brother, if you would be so kind as to first answer my question, I will most eagerly address yours.


----------



## Christopher88

SRoper said:


> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.


Scott, I was going to say, If I were a Pastor in the Pulpit I would dress like Mr. Roper with that cool 1940's hat and tux. Love the picture brother, tell Mrs. Roper hi for me, and next time your in town, I would love to get coffee with you my friend.

To the OP:
It does depend on the settings a lot. My Pastor comes in a nice shirt and kakies but no tie. (Salem is a Blue jeans. nice pants, polo shirt wearing crowd)


----------



## Marrow Man

Joseph Scibbe said:


> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.



Your pastor is over forty years of age and not a 20-something. I will be 44 tomorrow, and In my humble opinion would look quite silly in skinny jeans and a t-shirt in such an important office as that of preacher. I did notice that your pastor sported a nice suit when he preached at the Crystal Cathedral, however.


----------



## KMK

Marrow Man said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> My pastor (Mark Driscoll) would look completely foolish if he wore a geneva gown but it would be a silly idea for a pastor that preaches to an older congregation that expects a higher standard to adopt a jeans and shirt dress code.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your pastor is over forty years of age and not a 20-something. I will be 44 tomorrow, and In my humble opinion would look quite silly in skinny jeans and a t-shirt in such an important office as that of preacher. *I did notice that your pastor sported a nice suit when he preached at the Crystal Cathedral, however.*
Click to expand...


Where is that 'touche' emoticon?

Suffice it to say that no matter how you dress in the pulpit someone will be offended.


----------



## Joseph Scibbe

rbcbob said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brother, if you would be so kind as to first answer my question, I will most eagerly address yours.
Click to expand...


Yes, I would look out of place at a state dinner hosted by the President.


----------



## SRoper

fredtgreco said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Ironically, in most modern American churches, the Genevan gown would not identify the office of pastor, and would be a distraction about sartorial choice.
Click to expand...


I meant that it removes the choice that must be made weekly. "I can't believe his wife let him out of the house with that tie," etc.

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:16 PM ----------




Sonny said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Geneva gown is good. It identifies the office of the pastor and removes potential distractions about the pastor's sartorial choices.
> 
> 
> 
> Scott, I was going to say, If I were a Pastor in the Pulpit I would dress like Mr. Roper with that cool 1940's hat and tux. Love the picture brother, tell Mrs. Roper hi for me, and next time your in town, I would love to get coffee with you my friend.
> 
> To the OP:
> It does depend on the settings a lot. My Pastor comes in a nice shirt and kakies but no tie. (Salem is a Blue jeans. nice pants, polo shirt wearing crowd)
Click to expand...


Thanks, Chris! I'm actually in town--sending you an email now.


----------



## uberkermit

Andres said:


> Good. Every*body* looks terrible in those.



Fixed. 

<derail>

_Nobody_, not even the Queen of England, can pull off those funnel pants. 

Worst. fashion. trend. ever.

</derail>


----------



## DMcFadden

Dress in the pulpit? Personally, I stay clear of wearing dresses.

Generally I wear a suit. In a contemporary service, I have worn Dockers and a Golf type shirt. However, I would agree with those who think that the preacher ought to fit without attracting too much attention to himself. In most American settings, a suit is still a respectful type of attire, even if some of the folks are dressed more casually. My tradition has never done robes, but I would gladly wear one for all of the reasons given by several in this thread.


----------



## rbcbob

Joseph Scibbe said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brother, if you would be so kind as to first answer my question, I will most eagerly address yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yes, I would look out of place at a state dinner hosted by the President.
Click to expand...


Thanks, Joseph. And as you may have suspected I am drawing attention to the correlation between the dignity and majesty of Our Lord, His house, and His service which call for an attire corresponding to the occasion. Also, as per my first post in this thread, our particular culture informs us as to what attire in our generation conveys the due respect and reverence we have when assembled before our Majestic King.

Such attire will vary from Boston to Lusaka, from Singapore to Sydney, from Islamabad to Kiev. But every culture recognizes within its own setting when there is a particularly solemn and dignified assembly and how its people reflect that in their attire.

Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.



> Mal. 1:6 " A son honors his father, And a servant his master. If then I am the Father, Where is My honor? And if I am a Master, Where is My reverence? Says the LORD of hosts To you priests who despise My name. Yet you say, 'In what way have we despised Your name?' 7 "You offer defiled food on My altar. But say, 'In what way have we defiled You?' By saying, 'The table of the LORD is contemptible.' 8 And when you offer the blind as a sacrifice, Is it not evil? And when you offer the lame and sick, Is it not evil? Offer it then to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you favorably?" Says the LORD of hosts. 9 "But now entreat God's favor, That He may be gracious to us. While this is being done by your hands, Will He accept you favorably?" Says the LORD of hosts. 10 "Who is there even among you who would shut the doors, So that you would not kindle fire on My altar in vain? I have no pleasure in you," Says the LORD of hosts, "Nor will I accept an offering from your hands. 11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down, My name shall be great among the Gentiles; In every place incense shall be offered to My name, And a pure offering; For My name shall be great among the nations," Says the LORD of hosts


----------



## Pergamum

Bob, 

One's person "reverance" is another person's "being overly fancy." One person's "decently and in order" is another person's "stuffy and formal."

Last year I had a highland Dani evangelist bring a white shirt and tie and dress shoes to preach in a hut tied together with vines. I think the message that it communicated was that the local people could never serve god appropriately because they didn't possess the threads to do so. (p.s. - I made sure I wore shorts and no shoes, like the other 99% of the people.)


----------



## Constantlyreforming

at what point do you do what your convictions are, and ignore the jealousy and conversation of the congregation regarding what you wear? There will always be someone there to critique it. If they think you are wearing too nice of a suit, then they need to deal with God regarding jealousy/judgmental issues. If they see you as being too casual, then they need to also deal with judgmental issues. The problem is with those who have issue, not with the clothing worn, in all likelihood.


----------



## rbcbob

Trevor,
Could you explain yourself a bit? I hope you are not saying that there can be no possibility of a regional church recognizing that someone in their midst has dressed in a manner that, by it's local, regional or national customs, is suited more for a casual gathering in a friend's home rather than for the worship of God?
Are we shut up to subjectivism and relativism?*

Bob Brown*

Sent from my iPhone


----------



## Pilgrim

Don Kistler said:


> When I preached in Hawaii, I was told NOT to wear a tie since "only lawyers and undertakers wear ties here."



Well, and this guy too, who was all business:

View attachment 2152



Seriously, I think in the West this question is in large part due to a broader cultural change. Formerly, it seems that people, whether converted or not, expected church to be different and dressed accordingly. (The "Worship Wars" are a related issue i.e. to what degree should worship music reflect cultural trends and whether or not it should be noticeably different.) But dressing up was much more common for all kinds of activities, even including going to sporting events like football and baseball games. 30-40 years ago in most places no one would have dared show up to a college class in pajamas and flip-flops. Some time prior to that, what would be considered semi-formal attire today would have probably been required attire in college classes. 

I'm thinking that "dressing up" to go to most churches lasted longer than it did in other contexts except for certain business professions, where it continues to this day. Today, with regard to worship in particular, that kind of idea, right or wrong, drives many people away. Thus was born unchurched Harry and Mary a number of years ago. I disagree with many of the "seeker sensitive" ideas, but we shouldn't give the impression that you have to "clean yourself up" to come to church, which often is interpreted by the unconverted as being a much deeper idea than what clothes to wear.

"Big steeple" churches are about the only churches today, even in the "Bible Belt," where I would expect to see most of the congregation dressed up and are probably about the only churches where I would wear a coat and tie as a visitor. In many other churches if you come in dressed like that, they think you must be a guest preacher. I see a lot of pastors wearing polo type golf shirts these days. 

On a related note, I was surprised and even somewhat dismayed to see a church featured on the New Orleans TV news a few months ago that touted that wearing ties, etc. wasn't necessary, as if that was a big news story. Dressing up for church not necessary in 2011? Really? Really?  There are actually churches where ties and suits are not required? There are churches where the preacher doesn't wear a suit or gown or other priestly or churchy garb? Who knew?  Perhaps many of the uptown hipsters who that church targets really don't know. I suppose it's possible that someone who hasn't been to church in 25 years or more might not know. But from the looks of it the congregation is made up of a lot of people under 40 and under (many much younger) and the pastor may not be much older than 30. How many people in that demographic are really under the impression that you have to dress up to go to church? I'm not out to slam the network with which this church is affiliated but am genuinely interested to know if there are a lot of people under 35 or so who really think it's revolutionary for a church to have casual attire and a rock band.

We want to avoid formalism, but we also should be on the lookout for a faddish and slavish deference to the current hot trends, as some here have also noted.


----------



## Marrow Man

T. David Gordon makes the point in _Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns_ that a former student of his, who preferred dressing down when it came to Lord's Day worship, did not give a second thought to dressing formally on his wedding day. We tend to watch our attire for events that are important to us.


----------



## raekwon

Marrow Man said:


> T. David Gordon makes the point in _Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns_ that a former student of his, who preferred dressing down when it came to Lord's Day worship, did not give a second thought to dressing formally on his wedding day. We tend to watch our attire for events that are important to us.



I wouldn't necessarily correlate that to the importance of the event.


----------



## Marrow Man

raekwon said:


> I wouldn't necessarily correlate that to the importance of the event.



How so?


----------



## Pergamum

rbcbob said:


> Trevor,
> Could you explain yourself a bit? I hope you are not saying that there can be no possibility of a regional church recognizing that someone in their midst has dressed in a manner that, by it's local, regional or national customs, is suited more for a casual gathering in a friend's home rather than for the worship of God?
> Are we shut up to subjectivism and relativism?*
> 
> Bob Brown*
> 
> Sent from my iPhone



Being attentive to cultural appropriateness does not mean we have wholly abandoned ourselves to subjectivity and relativism. 

Casual-ness in dress may communicate a lack of respect in some cases, just as over-dressing may communicate an overly-external faith and a "putting on airs" - which is much more of a possibility where I am located. 

The very same action may, in fact, communicate very different values depending on the place and culture where it happens.

Aside from a few general principles in Scripture, I see little said about a preacher's garments. Where God yells; we, too, ought to yell. But where God whispers, we shouldn't be too vocal. 

Here is an illustration of how different churches may, with good intentions, advocate totally diametrically opposed actions, in the name of upholding good values:

ILLUSTRATION
Within the same month, I visited two different churches on my furlough back to the USA about 2 years ago. Both churches were calvinistic and baptistic. 

The first church was an RB church in NJ. Outside of the sanctuary there was a very visible sign urging complete silence once inside the sanctuary., The pastor commented on how reverent the people were because they filed in as quiet as mice. After the service, too, they filed out very quietly. During the sermon, there was complete silence.

Several weeks before this occasion, I had gone to Rockdale Community Church in Conyers, Georgia. It was loud and raucous prior to the start of church. People were laughing and kids were playing and it took the whole first verse of the first song until things settled. The elder there remarked about just how great it was that the people were so loud and so happy to see each other, "Look..they are so happy to fellowship that they could just do it all day, isn't it a joyous thing when the saints gather."

Both churches were advocating good values. 

But they interpreted the Pre-Start-of-Church noise levels drastically different.


----------



## J. Dean

Kevin said:


> Your context & culture will determine the answer.
> 
> If I am preaching in an established church with a pulpit I wear a suit or a sport coat & tie, depending on where they are located. In some I wear I wear a clergy shirt & suit.
> 
> @ my church plant I wear jeans & a collared shirt, never with a tie.
> 
> The key point is that how you dress should never distract people from your message. You can do that by being too casual, or too formal.


+10

You don't need to be formally dressed in every single occasion, carte blanche, but it does need to be appropriate.


----------



## raekwon

Marrow Man said:


> raekwon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily correlate that to the importance of the event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
Click to expand...


Using the earlier example of a state dinner w/ the President of the US and the Queen of the Commonwealth Realms... any preacher here would dress "better" (ie: more formally) if they were to attend such an event than they would for Lord's Day worship, but I'd be surprised (shocked, even) if anyone would say that the state dinner is somehow "more important" than corporate worship.

I just keep going back to this: a pastor's clothing should be modest, clean, well-fitting, and culturally appropriate.


----------



## Marrow Man

raekwon said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> raekwon said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't necessarily correlate that to the importance of the event.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How so?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Using the earlier example of a state dinner w/ the President of the US and the Queen of the Commonwealth Realms... any preacher here would dress "better" (ie: more formally) if they were to attend such an event than they would for Lord's Day worship, but I'd be surprised (shocked, even) if anyone would say that the state dinner is somehow "more important" than corporate worship.
> 
> I just keep going back to this: a pastor's clothing should be modest, clean, well-fitting, and culturally appropriate.
Click to expand...


I think Gordon's point (and If I recall correctly the student agreed with him) is that if something is important to you, you tend to demonstrate that in the way that your dress. I don't think it's that far removed from what you've said, except that there would be disagreement about what is "culturally appropriate" perhaps. Different settings and events have different expectations.

For me, I don't personally like robes, I wear a suit and tie (and sometimes 3-piece suit) on the Lord's Day morning service (though I sometimes shed the coat in the summer when it gets too warm), and I wear a shirt and slacks (often without tie, but sometimes with a sport coat) on evening services. But then again, it's not all about me and my personal preferences. If someone objected to me not wearing a tie on Sunday evenings, I would likely reconsider.


----------



## Kevin

here ( eastern canada) everyone dresses very casual. The mayor of our city never wears a jacket or a tie, bankers wear jackets with no tie, and lawyers wear robes.

People "dress up" by wearing new jeans & a shirt with a collar. Any such shirt that is not plaid is called a "dress shirt".

The only ministers that wear gowns on a regular basis are the most liberal ones.

People still like to see clergy shirts or gowns at weddings since that is the one time people still dress up.

Ironically I wore a clergy shirt @ a wedding recently & was shocked at how many people (including strangers) commented on my appearance. Now, I am an overweight middle aged guy, that is losing his hair & frankly that hasn't happened in a few years. Even a couple of teens asked me if I would wear it to church.

BTW the pictures of me & my wife dancing with me wearing the clergy shirt are hilarious!


----------



## Joseph Scibbe

rbcbob said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Would you look foolish and out of place in tight jeans and a hoodie at a State dinner with the president and the queen of England?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So, I assume you wear a tuxedo to church every week?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brother, if you would be so kind as to first answer my question, I will most eagerly address yours.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I would look out of place at a state dinner hosted by the President.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Thanks, Joseph. And as you may have suspected I am drawing attention to the correlation between the dignity and majesty of Our Lord, His house, and His service which call for an attire corresponding to the occasion. Also, as per my first post in this thread, our particular culture informs us as to what attire in our generation conveys the due respect and reverence we have when assembled before our Majestic King.
> 
> Such attire will vary from Boston to Lusaka, from Singapore to Sydney, from Islamabad to Kiev. But every culture recognizes within its own setting when there is a particularly solemn and dignified assembly and how its people reflect that in their attire.
> 
> Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mal. 1:6 " A son honors his father, And a servant his master. If then I am the Father, Where is My honor? And if I am a Master, Where is My reverence? Says the LORD of hosts To you priests who despise My name. Yet you say, 'In what way have we despised Your name?' 7 "You offer defiled food on My altar. But say, 'In what way have we defiled You?' By saying, 'The table of the LORD is contemptible.' 8 And when you offer the blind as a sacrifice, Is it not evil? And when you offer the lame and sick, Is it not evil? Offer it then to your governor! Would he be pleased with you? Would he accept you favorably?" Says the LORD of hosts. 9 "But now entreat God's favor, That He may be gracious to us. While this is being done by your hands, Will He accept you favorably?" Says the LORD of hosts. 10 "Who is there even among you who would shut the doors, So that you would not kindle fire on My altar in vain? I have no pleasure in you," Says the LORD of hosts, "Nor will I accept an offering from your hands. 11 For from the rising of the sun, even to its going down, My name shall be great among the Gentiles; In every place incense shall be offered to My name, And a pure offering; For My name shall be great among the nations," Says the LORD of hosts
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


Following your logic, one must buy the most expensive suit in the world for it to be truly worthy of coming before the King. You are making a false and non-biblical assumption that dress=seriousness about worship. Paul specifically tells women (I think the principle can apply to men as well) to not let their "adorning be external". The worship of Gods people is in spirit and truth and not concerned with style of dress. If someone is that bothered by someone else dress in a church then I say the issue lies with the offended not the offender. I believe that modesty is a standard to be upheld but to say that one should wear a certain style of dress is a bad idea. If taken too far Jesus might have said to us "These people honor me with their dress but their hearts are far from me" or God said "The multitude of your suits--what are they to me?" says the LORD. "I have more than enough of sweaters, of khaki pants and the suits and ties you wear...; I have no pleasure...". (Please don't take this to say that I am speaking for God, just making example)


----------



## Philip

rbcbob said:


> Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.



Interestingly, one hundred years ago, this might have been used as an argument against the wearing of suits to church.


----------



## rbcbob

P. F. Pugh said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, one hundred years ago, this might have been used as an argument against the wearing of suits to church.
Click to expand...


That may, or may not, be the case. Can you document that assertion? And even if that proves historically true, it in no way alters the lamentable situation today. If, as you say, the wearing of a suit to worship service in 1911 would have reflected a casual attitude in the worshipers approach to the Living God then it should stand to reason that there would have been a manner of dress in 1911 which would have indicated a sober, humble approach to His worship.


----------



## Joseph Scibbe

rbcbob said:


> P. F. Pugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, one hundred years ago, this might have been used as an argument against the wearing of suits to church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may, or may not, be the case. Can you document that assertion? And even if that proves historically true, it in no way alters the lamentable situation today. If, as you say, the wearing of a suit to worship service in 1911 would have reflected a casual attitude in the worshipers approach to the Living God then it should stand to reason that there would have been a manner of dress in 1911 which would have indicated a sober, humble approach to His worship.
Click to expand...


Is there any Biblical assertion that what you wear correlates to you "reverence" to worship?


----------



## raekwon

The correlation between the wearing of a suit and the reverence one has for Lord's Day worship seems (to me) roughly analogous to the correlation between physical circumcision and circumcision of the heart.


----------



## SRoper

And yet physical circumcision (and now physical baptism) was still commanded.


----------



## raekwon

SRoper said:


> And yet physical circumcision (and now physical baptism) was still commanded.



And wearing a suit in the pulpit isn't!


----------



## rbcbob

Joseph Scibbe said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> P. F. Pugh said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> 
> Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Interestingly, one hundred years ago, this might have been used as an argument against the wearing of suits to church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> That may, or may not, be the case. Can you document that assertion? And even if that proves historically true, it in no way alters the lamentable situation today. If, as you say, the wearing of a suit to worship service in 1911 would have reflected a casual attitude in the worshipers approach to the Living God then it should stand to reason that there would have been a manner of dress in 1911 which would have indicated a sober, humble approach to His worship.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Is there any Biblical assertion that what you wear correlates to you "reverence" to worship?
Click to expand...


What one puts on, assuming that there was any conscious choosing involved, is one indicator of your assessment of where you are going and what is appropriate for the occasion. If you reverence the Lord to Whose house you are going then it will be reflected in your selection of attire.


----------



## Philip

rbcbob said:


> That may, or may not, be the case. Can you document that assertion?



In 1911, the suit was loungewear, the working man's dress on his day off. For formal business, the frock coat was worn or (for less formal business) the morning coat. A suit was primarily for relaxing in the country or (if you were working-class) a rebellion against the formality of the upper classes.

The result was that in churches primarily attended by the upper classes, morning dress was worn, whereas in a working-class parish, suits would have been the norm.


----------



## Robert Truelove

I believe this is something to be determined both by culture and general equity from the Scriptures as it applies to the function of the minister.

Speaking generally..

We make deliberate decisions when we dress for the ball park, a funeral, or a wedding. Actually, we are fairly deliberate about how we dress for just about anything we leave our house to attend. Why is it that in the area of what we wear to church, all cultural issues get thrown out the window and we act like jeans and a tee-shirt isn't saying something about how we view the service? 

When we dress in a casual fashion, what we are saying (wherever we may be) is that the whatever we are attending does not warrant the respect of formal dress. This is a cultural issue but it is nonetheless a reality. Since these things are as they are, what do you want to say by what you choose to wear to church?


----------



## Constantlyreforming

I think Rae’s comments about being “culturally appropriate” has its points. Clean, well-fitting, all good points. I do think that if one has good clothes you wear what good clothes you have. If you have not as good clothes, you wear the best you have. Not to impress anyone, but to bring to worship that best of you. Obviously, this all comes back to being a matter of the heart, but our heart works out into our actions, and may take away from what we are trying for.

Here’s a for-instance. I was 15 years old and attending Chain of Lakes Community Bible Church in Antioch, Illinois. There was a certain someone I was trying to “impress” there, who of course was of the opposite sex. So, I would wear my coolest clothes in order to impress her. Fail.
I failed Christ in my purpose for getting dressed in going to church, and I also failed miserably in wooing the lovely creature.

I think it all does fall to our motives, but we also must take scripture into consideration. If it was a good thing for the priests and people of Israel to prepare themselves with certain clothing/appearance before worship, even though this law has changed, it seems to me to be a good practice. Not to wear clothes that are fancy to fit in, but to bring to God a body clothed with the best of what He has given us. Usually, that takes preparation, more-so than throwing on a t-shirt and shorts with sandles. 

Shine shoes, tie a tie, iron pants, clean shaven (if that is normally what you consider the “best of you”. Why should we not present ourselves in our best, when we do so for our spouse, employer, family, or someone’s death? If it is culturally appropriate to wear certain attire to certain important events, then surely the worship of Christ is deserving of our best as well? Just another preparation we can make to come to Christ prepared, rather than scattered and in shambles.


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## Philip

Robert Truelove said:


> When we dress in a casual fashion, what we are saying (wherever we may be) is that the whatever we are attending does not warrant the respect of formal dress.



Not necessarily. I know some to whom this kind of dress says "pretentious" and "snobby." I have a very good friend who doesn't even own a sport jacket because he finds them restrictive and uncomfortable (how we became friends is a mystery to many).



Constantlyreforming said:


> I think Rae’s comments about being “culturally appropriate” has its points. Clean, well-fitting, all good points. I do think that if one has good clothes you wear what good clothes you have. If you have not as good clothes, you wear the best you have. Not to impress anyone, but to bring to worship that best of you. Obviously, this all comes back to being a matter of the heart, but our heart works out into our actions, and may take away from what we are trying for.



Ethan, I hear you, particularly as one who has invested time and effort (and far less money than should be legal) in his wardrobe, and I enjoy dressing up rather than down. However, this summer, I have come to recognize that for my home church, dressing in my preferred uniform of sports jacket and bow tie is a bit much---particularly in the summer. I would much prefer a church culture where dressing up was the norm, but that's not the place where God has me right now, so I need to dress down a bit in order to be all things to all men.


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## Marrow Man

Robert Truelove said:


> We make deliberate decisions when we dress for the ball park, a funeral, or a wedding. Actually, we are fairly deliberate about how we dress for just about anything we leave our house to attend. Why is it that in the area of what we wear to church, all cultural issues get thrown out the window and we act like jeans and a tee-shirt isn't saying something about how we view the service?


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## Joseph Scibbe

First of all: *The church building is not the house of God "Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands" Acts 7:48*. I don't like the comments that say that people that don't "dress up" means that what I wear is simply picked out in a flippant manner. There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear. If I were to wear a suit to my church and do all the exact same things with the same motivation then I really don't think God would look down and say "Finally he really wants to worship". That is legalism plain and simple.


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## rbcbob

Joseph Scibbe said:


> First of all: The church building is not the house of God "Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands" Acts 7:48. I don't like the comments that say that people that don't "dress up" means that what I wear is simply picked out in a flippant manner. There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear. If I were to wear a suit to my church and do all the exact same things with the same motivation then I really don't think God would look down and say "Finally he really wants to worship". That is legalism plain and simple.



Joseph,

FIRST allow me to take exception to your absolute distinction between the "church building" and the "house of God". Where a congregation owns, or has the use of a building for worship it ought to be recognized that when they are assembled in said building for the worship of God they are, at that time "the house of God"(1 Peter 2:4); they are where the special presence of the Lord is among His worshipping people.

SECOND, some in this thread have fixated upon the Western culture's preference for a suit. This is to miss most of what has been carefully presented showing how every culture recognizes when someone has chosen a more casual attire over a more formal attire.

THIRD, you must not expect me to take you seriously when you say:



> There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear


.

If this were true then we might well find you attending in swimming trunks and flip-flops, all well intentioned and unaware that your attitude toward the worship of the Almighty was suspect.


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## Joseph Scibbe

rbcbob said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all: The church building is not the house of God "Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands" Acts 7:48. I don't like the comments that say that people that don't "dress up" means that what I wear is simply picked out in a flippant manner. There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear. If I were to wear a suit to my church and do all the exact same things with the same motivation then I really don't think God would look down and say "Finally he really wants to worship". That is legalism plain and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph,
> 
> FIRST allow me to take exception to your absolute distinction between the "church building" and the "house of God". Where a congregation owns, or has the use of a building for worship it ought to be recognized that when they are assembled in said building for the worship of God they are, at that time "the house of God"(1 Peter 2:4); they are where the special presence of the Lord is among His worshipping people.
> 
> SECOND, some in this thread have fixated upon the Western culture's preference for a suit. This is to miss most of what has been carefully presented showing how every culture recognizes when someone has chosen a more casual attire over a more formal attire.
> 
> THIRD, you must not expect me to take you seriously when you say:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> If this were true then we might well find you attending in swimming trunks and flip-flops, all well intentioned and unaware that your attitude toward the worship of the Almighty was suspect.
Click to expand...


I could just as well worship in swim trunks and flip flops. Where Scripture is silent so must the church. To set a dress code outside of Scripture is sin, plain and simple.


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## KaphLamedh

Zach said:


> I think both the Pastor and the attendees should dress themselves in a manner worthy of whose house they are going to.



I do agree.


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## Manuel

rbcbob said:


> Thanks, Joseph. And as you may have suspected I am drawing attention to the correlation between the dignity and majesty of Our Lord, His house, and His service which call for an attire corresponding to the occasion. Also, as per my first post in this thread, our particular culture informs us as to what attire in our generation conveys the due respect and reverence we have when assembled before our Majestic King.
> 
> Such attire will vary from Boston to Lusaka, from Singapore to Sydney, from Islamabad to Kiev. But every culture recognizes within its own setting when there is a particularly solemn and dignified assembly and how its people reflect that in their attire.
> 
> Sadly there are many in our generation who have lost the sense of reverence for the sacred assembly of the Lord's people in the Lord's house on the Lord's day. That casual attitude is reflected in the clothing selected for worship in God's House.


Thanks, very well said. The modern church is taking the "God is not concerned about outward appearance" approach to the Christian life. Sadly, even reformed believers are falling into that gross misunderstanding of Scripture.


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## Joseph Scibbe

rbcbob said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> First of all: The church building is not the house of God "Yet the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands" Acts 7:48. I don't like the comments that say that people that don't "dress up" means that what I wear is simply picked out in a flippant manner. There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear. If I were to wear a suit to my church and do all the exact same things with the same motivation then I really don't think God would look down and say "Finally he really wants to worship". That is legalism plain and simple.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joseph,
> 
> FIRST allow me to take exception to your absolute distinction between the "church building" and the "house of God". Where a congregation owns, or has the use of a building for worship it ought to be recognized that when they are assembled in said building for the worship of God they are, at that time "the house of God"(1 Peter 2:4); they are where the special presence of the Lord is among His worshipping people.
> 
> SECOND, some in this thread have fixated upon the Western culture's preference for a suit. This is to miss most of what has been carefully presented showing how every culture recognizes when someone has chosen a more casual attire over a more formal attire.
> 
> THIRD, you must not expect me to take you seriously when you say:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no correlation between the reverence in my heart toward the worship of God and the clothes I wear
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> .
> 
> If this were true then we might well find you attending in swimming trunks and flip-flops, all well intentioned and unaware that your attitude toward the worship of the Almighty was suspect.
Click to expand...



Also, your use of 1 Peter is really bad form. The text even specifies that is a spiritual house and not any type of physical house. You must not expect me to take you seriously when you miss plain Scriptural meaning like that.


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## JoannaV

I'm not meaning for this to, well, have any implied meaning, it's just a statement: when I dress up for a social occasion it is because I _know_ that that is how my host expects me to dress.


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## Mushroom

It gets laughable to see the evident careful thought given to dressing in the greatest possible irreverence on the part of those so unconsciously affected by the existentialist bent of this culture. We are so determined to throw off the constraints of the traditionalist herd mentality that we make complete fools of ourselves.

If we are christians, rather than 'rebels without a clue', then isn't the fact that the older sister sitting in the pew behind us would be offended by the ballcap stuck sideways on our head be enough reason not to insist that we 'let our freak flag fly'?


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## raekwon

Gracious.

It seems to me that we've become a bit too focused on "formal vs. informal" when it comes to what is more or less reverent. Maybe those are the wrong categories to even think in when it comes to this question. Reverence, as far as I can tell, is a function of modesty and humility, not of formality.


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## Philip

raekwon said:


> It seems to me that we've become a bit too focused on "formal vs. informal" when it comes to what is more or less reverent. Maybe those are the wrong categories to even think in when it comes to this question. Reverence, as far as I can tell, is a function of modesty and humility, not of formality.



Indeed---and reverence looks very different depending on the culture.


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## but3leftsdo

We still haven't gotten our pastor to wear a kilt, even though some of us do on occasion. It's acceptable men's dress, formal enough for the pulpit, and comfortable too. Oh yes, and very Presbyterian.


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## raekwon

but3leftsdo said:


> Oh yes, and very Presbyterian.



Scottish ≠ Presbyterian

Just sayin'.


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## Bill The Baptist

Not like this:

http://theskippyreview.files.wordpress.com/2010/09/picture-151.png


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## Don Kistler

Yes, the look of reverence may indeed vary from one culture to the next. 
But appealing to other cultures doesn't address the issue of what is appropriate in THIS culture. Those of us here in the US should answer that for us. Those in other cultures can answer that for their particular situation. I don't think anyone is suggesting that what a minister wears into his pulpit in Africa or Istanbul is the norm for us, or vice versa.

It should be dignified, God-honoring, and appropriate for the occasion. If we are to "give unto the Lord the glory due unto His name," then the question should be, "What is due God in His worship?"


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## Joseph Scibbe

What you have to address is the ABSOLUTE(!!!) lack of dress code put forth in Scripture and the multiple times we are told that God despises outward conformity being the stressed aspect instead of reverence of heart. We are told not to let out "adorning be external". The wardrobe of a preacher does not necessarily show his level of reverence toward the Word of God. His time studying, praying, and preparing do that.


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## Philip

Don Kistler said:


> But appealing to other cultures doesn't address the issue of what is appropriate in THIS culture.



But I think we need to also address the various situations that arise within the various cultures of the US. For example, the pastor of a church in inner-city Baltimore may dress differently from one in suburban California, and both may dress differently from one in rural Iowa and all may be equally reverent in their attitude. Paul was a Roman Citizen and his best garment would have been the toga (the ancient equivalent of a three-piece suit)---but I imagine he didn't wear it to teach in the synagogue.


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## Edward

Joseph Scibbe said:


> the multiple times we are told that God despises outward conformity



There is a bit of humor when that is juxtaposed with your avatar.

---------- Post added at 09:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 PM ----------




but3leftsdo said:


> We still haven't gotten our pastor to wear a kilt, even though some of us do on occasion. It's acceptable men's dress, formal enough for the pulpit, and comfortable too. Oh yes, and very Presbyterian.



A guy at work has a kilt that he wears on special occasions (hasn't worn it to work yet). He's studying for ordination as a Catholic deacon.


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## Andres

raekwon said:


> The correlation between the wearing of a suit and the reverence one has for Lord's Day worship seems (to me) roughly analogous to the correlation between physical circumcision and circumcision of the heart.



I would agree with you here Rae, but it seems we have gotten a bit off topic for the OP specifically addressed the dress of the minister. For example, I often wears jeans and a polo shirt to church. I don't see any problem with it and no one else has ever mentioned it being an issue. However, if a minister were to step into the pulpit in jeans and a polo, I would probably think it to be inappropriate as it's too informal for the pulpit.


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## Joseph Scibbe

Edward said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> the multiple times we are told that God despises outward conformity
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is a bit of humor when that is juxtaposed with your avatar.
Click to expand...



Umm, excuse me? I don't know what you mean.


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## raekwon

Andres said:


> raekwon said:
> 
> 
> 
> The correlation between the wearing of a suit and the reverence one has for Lord's Day worship seems (to me) roughly analogous to the correlation between physical circumcision and circumcision of the heart.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I would agree with you here Rae, but it seems we have gotten a bit off topic for the OP specifically addressed the dress of the minister. For example, I often wears jeans and a polo shirt to church. I don't see any problem with it and no one else has ever mentioned it being an issue. However, if a minister were to step into the pulpit in jeans and a polo, I would probably think it to be inappropriate as it's too informal for the pulpit.
Click to expand...


In some settings, sure. There's just no way to make that statement across the board.


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## Scottish Lass

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Umm, excuse me? I don't know what you mean.



Your uniform is the epitome of conformity.


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## nicnap

Joseph Scibbe said:


> Umm, excuse me? I don't know what you mean.



I think the reference is to your uniform.

---------- Post added at 11:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:47 PM ----------

Ooops ... should have read further down; didn't see Anna's reply.


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## Manuel

Joseph Scibbe said:


> What you have to address is the ABSOLUTE(!!!) lack of dress code put forth in Scripture


Everybody has a dress code, so if a believer's dress code doesn't come from Scripture, where does it come from? TV? Hollywood magazines? the mall?


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## raekwon

Manuel said:


> Joseph Scibbe said:
> 
> 
> 
> What you have to address is the ABSOLUTE(!!!) lack of dress code put forth in Scripture
> 
> 
> 
> Everybody has a dress code, so if a believer's dress code doesn't come from Scripture, where does it come from? TV? Hollywood magazines? the mall?
Click to expand...


The grace of common sense?


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## rbcbob

raekwon said:


> The grace of common sense?



Sense has never been common. Grace should, however enhance sense. In view of the OP and some of the debate it would seem that we could use an infusion of sanctified sense.


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## Manuel

raekwon said:


> The grace of common sense?


That didn't work for Adam; God said NO! to his common-sense choice of clothing.


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## raekwon

I think we've run pretty far afield of the original topic...


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## Manuel

I agree. So, going back to the topic, I think that a preacher should dress following the general principles that God has established in his word concerning the clothes that we wear and that are common for every christian. For instance, and this is just one example of many that we find in the Scriptures, the Lord said in Luke.

Luk 16:19 "There was a rich man who was *clothed in purple and fine linen* and who feasted sumptuously every day. 

we all now the rest of the story, this man, even though he was a Jew and was familiar with the law and the Scriptures, didn't live for God. He lived for himself and for his money, that was his god whom he served. The Lord Jesus tells us that, among other things, one of the ways in which we could tell what was going on in his heart was by the way he dressed: he dressed in purple and fine linen; his garments were a profession of his faith. His choice of clothing was pompous and ostentatious, he wanted others to know by just looking at him that he was a rich man. It is obvious by the way the story ends that his man was wrong and that God did not approve his lifestyle. So, I think that we can extract a very good principle from this: A preacher should dress in such a way as to make evident to all that his heart is not attached to the things of this world, that his gods are not money, fame and luxury.


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## Edward

Scottish Lass said:


> Your uniform is the epitome of conformity.



I don't think that's the first time that you've had to translate for me.


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## Scottish Lass

Edward said:


> I don't think that's the first time that you've had to translate for me.



Begging your pardon, sir, for my impudence!


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