# Naptime crying for mom but not dad



## ClayPot

So here's the situation:

When my wife puts our 22-month old son down for an afternoon nap, he cries, screams, and clings to my wife in desperation. He is fine when she puts him down in the evening. When I put our son down for either a nap or at night, he is perfectly content. (Note that we are rocking him for about 10 minutes and then putting him down awake). 

Why does my son act like this for my wife during afternoon naps only? My wife's only guess is that he has an expectation that he should be asleep when she puts him down during afternoon nap, but I'm not sure why that would be the case in the afternoon only. TWe struggle with disciplining him over this because he seems so desparate and it doesn't *appear* to be willful rebellion.

Thoughts?


----------



## sastark

If she puts him down and walks out of the room, what happens?


----------



## Tripel

How long has it been going on? How have you been responding to it?


----------



## ClayPot

sastark said:


> If she puts him down and walks out of the room, what happens?



We've never actually tried that. Habit I suppose. 

-----Added 12/7/2009 at 05:07:30 EST-----



Tripel said:


> How long has it been going on? How have you been responding to it?



It's been going on quite a while. Our responses have been different depending on how old he was. When he was younger, we would usually try to rock him some more. As he's gotten older, we've tried disciplining him (which seems to add to the desperation I mentioned in the OP), ignoring him, going back in and telling him to go to sleep. At the moment, we are in the "ignoring phase", but it is very exasperating for my wife.


----------



## Christusregnat

jpfrench81 said:


> sastark said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she puts him down and walks out of the room, what happens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've never actually tried that. Habit I suppose.
Click to expand...


This is an excellent question Seth. I have noticed with our girls (we have three 3yrs and under) that when, as infants, they got a "response" such as coming back and picking them up, then we rewarded the crying. The less it was rewarded positivily, the less it appeared. The more it was rewarded negatively, the less it appeared.

Remember, they are created in God's image, and their little intellect and conscience are at work. Use these faculties carefully and compassionately, but use them nonetheless.

Cheers,


----------



## sastark

What we have done with our children (a four-year-old and a 15-month-old) is to comfort them/calm them down, put them in their crib/bed and walk out of the room. That way they aren't *surprised* by being laid down; they know what's coming. If they cry, we let them cry for a few minutes (up to 10 or 15 at the most). If they are still crying, we will go and check on them, calm them down, and repeat the laying down and walking out process. If they cry again, we let them. We may check on them a second time, but only in very, very rare occasions is that even needed.

There seems to be nothing *physically* wrong with your son. That is, he isn't hitting his head on the wall or getting his fingers pinched on something like that. He is OK. So, knowing that, he isn't going to have any damage done to him by letting him cry, even if he cries himself to sleep. It shouldn't take more than a week of doing this (and a week is a maximum) before he doesn't have a problem laying down on his own anymore.

At least, that has been our experience. I hope it is helpful to you! I'll be praying for you're family, as I know this sort of thing can be difficult.


----------



## Andres

Christusregnat said:


> jpfrench81 said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> sastark said:
> 
> 
> 
> If she puts him down and walks out of the room, what happens?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've never actually tried that. Habit I suppose.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> This is an excellent question Seth. I have noticed with our girls (we have three 3yrs and under) that when, as infants, they got a "response" such as coming back and picking them up, then we rewarded the crying. The less it was rewarded positivily, the less it appeared. The more it was rewarded negatively, the less it appeared.
> 
> *Remember, they are created in God's image, and their little intellect and conscience are at work.* Use these faculties carefully and compassionately, but use them nonetheless.
> 
> Cheers,
Click to expand...


This is absolutely correct, however I would also add they have inherited a sin nature so manipulating parents will come too easy to them.


----------



## TheDow

Our son (1 year in a week or so) has always had a hard time with naps. Just too much to experience, I suppose. My wife found a lot of help with this kind of thing in the Baby Whisperer forums, which you should be able to find by searching Google.


----------



## CatherineL

At 22 months he fairly certainly understands that mom is more likely to come rescue him when he cries. This is very common, most of my friends have had this happen and some of our children did as well. I don't usually let little babies cry (my personal preference, not judging anyone), but by this age I feel like they just have to learn when its time to sleep. I think what Seth suggested was spot on, and has worked for our kids by 15-18 months or so. Good luck!


----------



## puritanpilgrim

> If she puts him down and walks out of the room, what happens?



This is the route I take from three weeks old and beyond. If you are fed changed and not sick or woken up from a nightmare, it is bedtime. It's hard to do with the first one. If the child cries for 15-20 min. we will go in there and rub the child's back or stomach, but not remove them from the bed. After awhile they get used to it. We used a book called babywise. It was very helpful in teaching babies how to naturally go to sleep. If babies aren't trained right they will be in your bed at four years old.


----------



## TimV

We just slept with them for the first year or so. No need to get up in the middle of the night, and by two years they seldom cried for no reason since they'd been spanked for it, and it only took a couple spankings.


----------



## JoyFullMom

I respectfully disagree with Babywise and doing that with a 3mo. If that is your choice, fine...but you cannot take that out to a *logical* conclusion they will be in your bed at age 4. I have 6 dc, NONE of whom were left to cry at 3 mos old...and NONE of whom were in my bed at 2, let alone 4.

The Ezzos make many *scary* statements like that to new parents that just plain aren't true.


----------



## ClayPot

Last night my wife put him to bed (which I had been doing for the past couple of weeks at least) and he exhibited the same behavior. After a couple of minutes of crying and throwing a fit, I went in the room, laid him back down (he was standing up in his crib), and told him he needed to go to sleep. He continued to throw a fit, so I spanked him and told him he was being disobedient and needed to go to bed. He quieted down fairly rapidly after that and went to bed. I think we're just going to have to be "tough" and outlast the wit and skill of a toddler! Thanks everyone for the advice so far...


----------



## Soonerborn

jpfrench81 said:


> Last night my wife put him to bed (which I had been doing for the past couple of weeks at least) and he exhibited the same behavior. After a couple of minutes of crying and throwing a fit, I went in the room, laid him back down (he was standing up in his crib), and told him he needed to go to sleep. He continued to throw a fit, so I spanked him and told him he was being disobedient and needed to go to bed. He quieted down fairly rapidly after that and went to bed. I think we're just going to have to be "tough" and outlast the wit and skill of a toddler! Thanks everyone for the advice so far...




This sounds just like my son. I have a 2 year old son. Up until a few weeks ago, he would go to bed very easily. We would rock him in a chair and lay him down awake. He would go right to sleep. 

A few weeks ago, he began playing "games" with us. If Mommy is rocking him, he wants Daddy. If Daddy is rocking him he wants Mommy. Then we we put him to bed he stands up and throws a fit. 

I am now trying to cut this off at the root before it gets worse. I like your statement, "I think we're going to have to be tough and outlast the wit and skill of a toddler". I know just how you feel.

Sometimes for me, sinfully at the end of a long day, the last thing I want to do is patiently discipline my son. But I know that it is good for him. 

Now when I lay him down, I will tell him its time to go to sleep. I walk out of the room, shut the door and he immediately starts screaming. I will then immediately go back into his room, take him out of bed and spank him fairly hard 3 or 4 times then lay him back down. Usually at the most I have to do this one more time before he goes to sleep.


----------



## TimV

Two notes: Spanking with a light wooden spoon is probably better than with a hand, but may be illegal, and even with the hand be careful, if you have young kids that some relative who hates your disciplining you don't want them reading stuff like this!


----------



## CatherineL

I know that some people feel very strongly about sleep training little babies, and I'm not going to get into a debate about that, but I must agree with Polly that you do not have to train a baby like this so young. The age in the OP is certainly old enough to be being trained in obedience, and on the same token can learn and understand when its time to sleep. If you want to do it earlier, that's up to you, but its incorrect to say that if you don't do it as a tiny baby, they'll be in your bed at 4 years! I have 3 children to prove that wrong. 

Personally I only swat at naptime if the baby is doing something dangerous, like banging her head on the wall (yes, my children are nuts), jumping, or trying to climb out of the crib. In those cases I will train them to lay down and be still. Just like anything else I swat them if they disobey until they are obedient. This works well for the super active toddlers who can't bear to be still. You can't really swat for "go to sleep!" but "lay down" is much more concrete and a 22 month old can understand that with training. Hang in there!


----------



## TimV

Super well put, Catherine.


----------



## TheDow

JoyFullMom said:


> I respectfully disagree with Babywise and doing that with a 3mo.



I don't know all of the Babywise technique, but I do know that around 3 months (maybe before?) we had to let Iain cry during naps. We tried Baby Whisperer, Happiest Baby on the Block, and COUNTLESS other recommendations from well-meaning friends and family, and nothing worked for him.

Within 2 days after letting him cry for his naps when he didn't want to, he was crying a LOT less. Within a week, the naptime routine was actually calming him, and the crying episodes were infrequent.

I appreciate all the options parents have in terms of technique, but there is no one technique that will work for every kid, despite what each expert says about their own books. 

Every baby is different and not every baby responds to the techniques used by other parents. That can be the most difficult thing a new parent has to face, to be honest. Friends and family say, "What you need to do is...". Then, if their suggestion didn't work, it MUST be your fault, since it worked on all their kids, etc. By 3 months, my wife was sobbing because NONE of the advice we were receiving and trying was working, and every expert, friend, or family member was strongly implying that the fault was my wife's. I sat in the bathroom with her and consoled her while she sobbed into my shoulder about how horrible of a mom she must be because all of these suggestions weren't working.

I know people mean well, but every child is different.  Not saying anything about anyone specifically. Just tossing out a general caution to respond in love to any new moms to whom we offer advice.


----------



## Andrew Short

*Reformed theology impacting practice*

I am 30 years old and single, I am not a parent but found this thread to be interesting, can I open this up a little?

How does the doctrine of original sin and that affect debates on the differences between cuddling, over cuddling and under cuddling?

Hope you don't mind a non parent joining the thread.


----------



## TimV

Pro 22:15 Folly is bound up in the heart of a child, but the rod of discipline drives it far from him.


----------



## JoyFullMom

TheDow said:


> JoyFullMom said:
> 
> 
> 
> I respectfully disagree with Babywise and doing that with a 3mo.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I don't know all of the Babywise technique, but I do know that around 3 months (maybe before?) we had to let Iain cry during naps. We tried Baby Whisperer, Happiest Baby on the Block, and COUNTLESS other recommendations from well-meaning friends and family, and nothing worked for him.
> 
> Within 2 days after letting him cry for his naps when he didn't want to, he was crying a LOT less. Within a week, the naptime routine was actually calming him, and the crying episodes were infrequent.
> 
> I appreciate all the options parents have in terms of technique, but there is no one technique that will work for every kid, despite what each expert says about their own books.
> 
> Every baby is different and not every baby responds to the techniques used by other parents. That can be the most difficult thing a new parent has to face, to be honest. Friends and family say, "What you need to do is...". Then, if their suggestion didn't work, it MUST be your fault, since it worked on all their kids, etc. By 3 months, my wife was sobbing because NONE of the advice we were receiving and trying was working, and every expert, friend, or family member was strongly implying that the fault was my wife's. I sat in the bathroom with her and consoled her while she sobbed into my shoulder about how horrible of a mom she must be because all of these suggestions weren't working.
> 
> I know people mean well, but every child is different.  Not saying anything about anyone specifically. Just tossing out a general caution to respond in love to any new moms to whom we offer advice.
Click to expand...


Hi "The Dow",

Yes, you made my point.  Every child *is* different...but the Ezzo's don't really allow for that...unless the books have been rewritten. Growing Kids has a reputation for being pretty dogmatic in saying that *IF* you DON'T let a young baby *cry it out*, they will still be *in your bed at age 4*, or that you will have a *child run home*. My oldest is 18 and my youngest is 4 and I have done pretty much the opposite of what the Ezzo's teach, (nursing on demand, attachment parenting, sat and held my babies for HOURS while listening to young readers, checking work, etc.) and my home is not child run nor child centered at all.  My children are a joy and a blessing and pretty obedient.  By the time they are mobile, I had to tie them down to get them to want to sit with me! LOL!

If you read my post again, I said "If that is your choice, fine.....". I was not telling them what to do, but issuing a caution. Babywise works for some, for many....but not all and there are even fabulous results in those that don't do it at all. It's not a magic formula.

Peace


----------



## TheDow

Agreed. No magic formula. Most of my post was not directed at you, and I should have made that more clear. I apologize. 

I also wasn't defending BabyWise. I don't know everything about it.

I was mostly addressing the fact that every expert says that their technique is "The Way". Even Baby Whisperer (a book we took much from) has this sort of thing throughout. And every technique has devout followers, which I also don't have a problem with. Just wanted to offer the suggestion that we all (myself included) remember to be kind...especially to first-time moms and dads.


----------



## kvanlaan

> I have noticed with our girls (we have three 3yrs and under) that when, as infants, they got a "response" such as coming back and picking them up, then we rewarded the crying. The less it was rewarded positively, the less it appeared. The more it was rewarded negatively, the less it appeared.



I've seen this many, many a time. Leaving them for longer to cry and then still picking them up will only train them to cry longer.

I would drop the books and go find an 87-year old grandmother of the 'old school' who had several of her own. They've got books beat out hands down.


----------

