# "UFO's" and the Occult



## Ravens

I realize this is a fringe topic. However, countless people are involved in this, and I figured this little piece might be of interest to some. I was very interested in UFO lore and what not before becoming saved, and recently engaged someone on the issue on a secular web forum. He is a non-Christian with a voracious, all-consuming interest in UFO's. Anyhow, I essentially hold the same position as Gary North and many other Christians, namely, that beyond the husk of mistaken sightings and outright lies, there is a real core of experiences promoted and engineered by demonic beings. I thought I'd post what I wrote for the one or two people who might be interested:



> I hope that we can engage in some interesting discussion on these issues. I for one do not think that you are insane or unhinged for at least being curious about these matters. Perhaps I could phrase that differently: I think that there is, objectively, something going on when it comes to "UFO phenomena", and you are right to make note of this (as you do on these boards). That being said, I suppose that I disagree with what exactly is going on, but I don't disagree that something is going on.
> 
> I was very interested in A.T.O. (All Things Occult) from roughly 14 to 19, prior to becoming a Christian, and one area that I read quite a bit on were aliens, U.F.O.'s, etc. To me, the connection between UFO phenomena and the occult was fairly easy to notice and substantiate, even prior to becoming a Christian. I would note that prominent UFO researchers, including John Keel (which name you should recognize; I believe he wrote The Mothman Prophecies), Jacques Vallee, and others, have made this very same connection, that is, the "link" between UFO phenomena and occult phenomena.
> 
> Indeed, Keel himself states in UFO's: Operation Trojan Horse that "...UFO's do not seem to exist as tangible, manufactured objects. They do not conform to the accepted natural laws of our environment... The UFO manifestations seem to be, by and large, merely minor variations of the age-old demonological phenomenon." Hopefully you recognize that Keel and Vallee are fairly established names in the field and (at least to my knowledge; I could be wrong) non-Christians.
> 
> That being said, I realize that you are not a Christian. I would hope that you hear me out, if only for curiosity's sake. It is my contention that UFO phenomena are attributable to what the Scriptures would denote as fallen angels, or, put otherwise, spirits that are in ethical rebellion against their Maker. I realize that, chances are, I just lost your respect. For curiosity's sake, hear me out. If you disagree with me, I want you to disagree with me on good, solid grounds, after all!
> 
> When most people hear the term "spirit" they immediately think of something whimsical, transparent, separated from the real world of time and space and quanta and energy, belonging to Dante and Tolkien, and not to the time-space in which we live. That would be incorrect. I think that a fair Biblical notion of a "Spirit" is simply a Person (roughly speaking, an Entity with Intellect, Self-Awareness, and Volition) that is not annexed to a physical frame, but that has the capacity to interact with the "stuff" of physical reality.
> 
> In other words, Biblically, I think it would be safe to say that a spirit is an Entity that can interact with quantum particles, that is, the stuff of physical universe. In that sense, it really isn't even "supernatural", depending on how one uses the term.
> 
> That being said, I think that an honest evaluation of UFO phenomena, even if it does not convince you of Christianity, could and should lead you to the conclusion that these "Beings" are more extra-dimensional than extra-terrestrial and, indeed, that they are more or less Entities that can interact with quantum particles and present themselves to our consciousness. That, in and of itself, does not entail Christianity.
> 
> I would hope that you hear me out, simply because John Keel, Jacques Vallee, J. Allen Hynek and others all more or less agree with me, even though none of them, to my knowledge, are Christians. By the way, those aren't random names I picked out to support my position. Those are three of the most well-known "authorities" in the field, one of whom address the United Nations on the topic of UFO's. If that weren't enough, Kenneth Arnold, who made perhaps the most famous sighting of UFO's in 1947 (and, I believed, coined the term "flying saucer") concluded that they were not physical airships at all, but rather some form of living energy.
> I will claim that if you read Strieber's own writings on this subject, you will become aware of what I am saying. If Keel, Vallee, Hynek, Arnold, and others aren't enough, Strieber should be. When Strieber first began encountering the beings that he wrote about he himself wondered whether they were demons or not; but seeing as he was not a Christian, he ended up not seeing them in that light.
> 
> Later on in his works, Strieber describes his encounter in these words: "I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace. It was hell on earth to be there and yet I couldn't move, couldn't cry out, and couldn't get away. I lay as still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever was there seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and dark and sinister ... I still remember that thing crouching there, so terribly ugly, its arms and legs like limbs of a great insect, its eyes glaring at me." At least from looking online, I believe that is from Transformation, pg. 121. Also see this, from Transformation pp. 44-45: "Increasingly I felt as if I were entering a struggle that might be a struggle for my soul, my essence, or whatever part of me might have reference to the eternal... It was clear that the soul was very much at issue. People [have] experienced feeling as if their souls were being dragged from their bodies. More than one person had seen the visitors in the context of near-death experience."
> 
> Lastly, these beings demonstrate an antipathy to Jesus Christ and Christianity. And no, I am not just making that up. I remember reading in a Strieber book (I can't remember which one; I could find the reference if necessary) that the visitors told him something along the lines that they used to have more contact with men in the past when men practiced paganism, and would in the future if men returned to indigenous religions and Wicca, and forsook Christianity.
> 
> So now, by all accounts, Christian and non-Christian alike (and I think this is key...), we have Non-Embodied Entities capable of producing effects in space-time and presenting themselves to our consciousness (or, Biblically, "spirits") who apparently have an antipathy to Jesus Christ, and a predilection for nature religions, the occult, and drug use. On nature religions, I already mentioned the Strieber quote. Also, I remember reading a book by (or about, I forget which) by Wallace Black Elk, I believe he was Black Elk's grandson, about how he used to interact with the Star People, or Star Nations (I forget what he called them), and how they would interact with them when he desired. It is hard to see that he classified them as different than the other spirits with which he interacted.
> 
> As to drugs, I think it is commonly well-known that drugs and paganism more or less tend to go together, and often people encounter "hyper-spatial" or interdimensional beings (read, spirits... unfortunately old and tried words don't seem as cool and attention-grabbing) through psychedelics, and many "drug-gurus" have spoken to the UFO phenomenon. I believe that Jerry Garcia talked about a UFO experience (I believe will on drugs; I might be mistaken), and Terrence McKenna said (regarding UFO and contact phenomena) "We are part of a symbiotic relationship with something that disguises itself as an extra-terrestrial invasion so as not to alarm us."
> 
> Here is yet another example of the "nexus" between paganism, drugs, and UFO's. Jerry Garcia was very into magic, considered psychedelics to be one of, if not the, most formative experiences of his life, frequented with occultists and shamans (I believe they called Rolling Thunder out to their ranch, once, if I'm not mistaken). Terrence McKenna, who wrote voluminously about DMT, ayahuasca, and shamanism, also realize there is a connection. Meanwhile, Wallace Black Elk is summoning them with a prayer or a call, Whitley Strieber is being told by them to practice Wicca, and countless others are experiencing paranormal, poltergeist-esque phenomena after being encountered by these "visitors". Jacques Vallee wrote a book entitled Messengers of Deception, and he and Keel (whom, it seems, you respect) both point out the stunning similarity between UFO's and the demonological manifestations of the middle ages, as well as the faerie, sidhe, and other lore of pre-Christian Europe.
> 
> I don't know if you are aware of this, but William Burroughs, who, to his own pain, was one of the darkest minds in the 20th century, and probably has more occult "street cred" than any other man of that era, believed Strieber to be sincere, and actually spent time in his New York cabin trying to contact the "visitors". And it was Burroughs who was known for his drug use, homosexuality, and occult interests (from Crowley to Babylonian and Egyptian magic). When speaking of hostile spiritual forces, Burroughs had this to say:
> 
> "When I go into my psyche, at a certain point I meet a very hostile, very strong force. It’s as definite as somebody attacking me in a bar. We usually come to a standoff, but I don’t think that I’m necessarily winning or losing […]. Listen, baby, I’ve been coping with this for so many years. I know this invasion gets in. As soon as you get close to something important, that’s when you feel this invasion, and that’s the way you know there’s something there. I’ve felt myself just marched up like a puppy to go and do something that would get me insulted or humiliated. I was not in control […]. There are all degrees of possession. It happens all the time. What you have to do is confront the possession. You can do that only when you’ve wiped out the words. You don’t argue […]. You have to let it wash through. This is difficult, difficult; but I’ll tell you one thing: You detach yourself and allow this to wash through, to go through instead of trying to oppose, which you can’t do […]. The more you pull yourself together the further apart you get. You have to learn to let the thing pass through. I am a man of the world; I understand these things. They happen to all of us. All you have to do is understand them or see them for what they are, that’s all."
> 
> Jerry Garcia spoke of the higher intelligences that surrounded him, and that the enlightenment they brought was always accompanied by "a hollow mocking laughter" which sometimes addressed him as a "stupid f***."
> 
> Meanwhile, Whitley Striber, in 2003, was apparently left on the dark side of things: "I’m a realist and what is now real is that the only thing that appears to be left of the contact experience is the dark side. So that’s what we have to face now. … In any case, the experience I had and what happens now seem to me to be very different things, almost as if somebody good has left and somebody surpassingly evil has remained here. . . . There are beings here who are hostile to one another, and some who hate us with a passion so great that it would be considered psychotic if it was displayed by a human being. There are some in a very complex and parasitical relationship with our minds, and some of these seem to me to be close enough to the human to suggest that they are hybrids of some kind. . . . I believe that this presence is what keeps us trapped here on earth, what prevents mankind from becoming a cosmic being, and what has been maneuvering us toward the earliest possible extinction. . . . something so profoundly evil that it is almost beyond imagination." There is no citation, as that is from an occult (not a Christian) website, but I believe it to be accurate based on who was writing it.
> 
> Now, by this point, you might be thinking, "Why in the world is he bringing in Jerry Garcia, William Burroughs, and others into a discussion of UFO's??" I would simply contest that, Christian or non-Christian, the more you study this stuff, the more you have to admit, if you are honest, that the lines and edges blur, and that what one initially believes to be extra-terrestrial, in the end, is more "spiritual" or inter-dimensional, and they seem to go hand-in-hand with paganism, the occult, and the drug culture.
> 
> To conclude, Vallee states in _Messengers of Deception: UFO Contacts and Cults_: "I believe there is a machinery of mass manipulation behind the UFO phenomenon. It aims at social and political goals by diverting attention from some human problems and by providing a potential release for tensions caused by others. The contactees are a part of that machinery. They are helping to create a new form of belief: an expectation of actual contact among large parts of the public. In turn this expectation makes millions of people hope for the imminent realization of that age-old dream: salvation from above, surrender to the greater power of some wise navigators of the cosmos (pg. 20)." He continues: "...if you take the trouble to join me in the analysis of the modern UFO myth, you will see human beings under the control of a strange force that is bending them in absurd ways, forcing them to play a role in a bizarre game of deception."
> 
> I'm not trying to debate you, so I hope the volume of this post doesn't frustrate you. I just want to give you some food for thought. After all, as I said, I'm not quoting Christians here. I'm quoting UFO authorities and occult authorities, names that you should recognize, e.g. Strieber, Vallee, Hynek, Keel, et al.
> 
> I think that Christianity remarkably accounts for both the reality of contact experiences, while, at the same time, accounting for the reality of the fact that no verifiable artifacts ever remain, that the problems with an extra-terrestrial, mechanized spacecraft view is out of accord with mainstream scientific and popular thought, and that reality simply isn't all about aliens. In other words, there is a real phenomenon, but it is a deceptive phenomenon. Of course, I don't necessarily expect you to agree.
> 
> I just find it remarkable that most of those who research the field end up concluding that there are hyperspatial or interdimensional beings who are often frightening to encounter, that manifest behavior traditionally associated with demons, poltergeists, and faeries, that associate themselves with paganism and have a direct antipathy to Jesus Christ... and that there are many people out there who believe this very thing and yet simultaneously think that Christianity is ludicrous and foolishness. I find it remarkable, since Christianity teaches that there are non-embodied Entities that are inherently malicious and deceptive, that can manipulate physical phenomena and assume forms for themselves, able to be touched or seen on radar, and who harbor an intense antipathy to Jesus Christ.
> 
> This is yet one more example of how Christianity is the key that unlocks reality, and I hope that you at least consider my position. If not, I'd be interested on what you think after you have continued to study the matter. I would just counsel you that it is the goal of these fallen entities to deceive you, and envelop your mind in an endless maze of Grays, Nordics, Reptilians, etc. And endless cycle and maze that leads to nowhere, and that is inherently deceptive. Indeed, those who study it the most don't even believe that these visitors are interstellar or "alien" anymore. They are lying. After all, the Scripture does say that the devil is a liar, and the father of lying.
> 
> Anyhow, just my thoughts.
> 
> Take care.


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## VictorBravo

Joshua, having grown up among new age adherents and occult dabblers, I've thought essentially the same thing. 

One thing that struck me early: the "nature spirits", the trolls, the little green men of old lore seem awful similar to the modern descriptions of UFO aliens. 

Satan may be the chief of liers, but he seems to recycle his tricks. Very much like heresies.


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## Zenas

The paralysis described is similar to accounts I've heard from those who have been oppressed by a demonic force. I have known both Christian and non-Christian who have reported demonic oppression- figures devoid of light or reflective capability hovering over their bed or standing at their door, laying in paralysis or falling to their knees in agony over the immense, menacing sorrow and hate they felt while it was there, and even the entity grabbing their arm, causing them to feel it burn while remaining devoid of any pigmentation other than the blackest of black. 

In both situations, the oppressor only left when a prayer was given to God or mention of Christ was made. 

Scary stuff that I hope never to have to endure. I would rather remain oblivious all my life and learn only after my death that I was in the lion's den the whole time.


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## LadyCalvinist

JD, what you wrote was insightful and brilliant, I was very impressed by it. I hope you friend is too.

Over at American Vision, they recently published a book _Alien Intrusion_which agrees with your thesis. 

Off topic, I used to be a huge Sci-fi fan but now I find myself having wondering about it.

Keep up the good work!


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## Augusta

My fringe hobby was Sasquatch. I have often wondered if all of the sightings were actually demonic activity. The paralyzing fears of the people who have seen one and the way the Sasquatch seem to disappear suddenly or even before peoples eyes has always made me wonder. If they are animals, then they might be just another species of great ape. There are things about some of the sightings, of which I have read hundreds of, that make me wonder if they are demonic. I don't doubt though that people are seeing something in the deep woods.


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## Zenas

I dunno about ya'll but if I see something walking around in the woods, I get freaked out, no matter what it is.


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## staythecourse

> I just find it remarkable that most of those who research the field end up concluding that there are hyperspatial or interdimensional beings who are often frightening to encounter, that manifest behavior traditionally associated with demons, poltergeists, and faeries, that associate themselves with paganism and have a direct antipathy to Jesus Christ... and that there are many people out there who believe this very thing and yet simultaneously think that Christianity is ludicrous and foolishness. I find it remarkable, since Christianity teaches that there are non-embodied Entities that are inherently malicious and deceptive, that can manipulate physical phenomena and assume forms for themselves, able to be touched or seen on radar, and who harbor an intense antipathy to Jesus Christ.



Thanks for the good post, JD. Once we become Biblicists there are only creatures of earth (man, animals and plants if you like) angels, demons and God. I am reading Genesis while I eat dinner and we meet all the main characters in the first few chapters. If there are beings from other planets God would have had to have made them better than Man (in his image) to be so intelligent to get to us via other dimensions or mind-bendingly long distances.

Also, "one little word will fell them (demons)." Ain't that a comfort! Thanks Andrew


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## Josiah

Thank you JD, your post has really been enlightening. I never knew that there were leading UFO scholars that made that sort of connection. It really gives alot to the Christian and non-Christian alike to chew upon. I have had Christian friends who have either told me that they believe in extra-terrestrial life or that they are excited for the possibility of it. I never knew what to say to them about it, but I just knew that I didnt think extra-terrestrial beings were possible. The notion of Intra-dimensional beings is more appropriate.


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## Josiah

Augusta said:


> My fringe hobby was Sasquatch. I have often wondered if all of the sightings were actually demonic activity. The paralyzing fears of the people who have seen one and the way the Sasquatch seem to disappear suddenly or even before peoples eyes has always made me wonder. If they are animals, then they might be just another species of great ape. There are things about some of the sightings, of which I have read hundreds of, that make me wonder if they are demonic. I don't doubt though that people are seeing something in the deep woods.



It makes me wonder too, since even those who have claimed to have seen sasquatch close have not been able to shoot one.


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## Augusta

Josiah said:


> Augusta said:
> 
> 
> 
> My fringe hobby was Sasquatch. I have often wondered if all of the sightings were actually demonic activity. The paralyzing fears of the people who have seen one and the way the Sasquatch seem to disappear suddenly or even before peoples eyes has always made me wonder. If they are animals, then they might be just another species of great ape. There are things about some of the sightings, of which I have read hundreds of, that make me wonder if they are demonic. I don't doubt though that people are seeing something in the deep woods.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It makes me wonder too, since even those who have claimed to have seen sasquatch close have not been able to shoot one.
Click to expand...


That is another mysterious thing. Although if they are as big as reported it would take several shots or being hit right through the heart or brain to take one down. Which is hard to do while you are peeing your pants and running for your life.  

I also remembered that they are often linked with ufo sightings and paranormal activity.


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## Josiah

> That is another mysterious thing. Although if they are as big as reported it would take several shots or being hit right through the heart or brain to take one down. Which is hard to do while you are peeing your pants and running for your life.
> 
> I also remembered that they are often linked with ufo sightings and paranormal activity.



Good point, I know I would be freaked out if I saw one of these: [video=youtube;yWOKwyT_xrU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWOKwyT_xrU&feature=related[/video]

upon seeing this video on youtube (which I am not sure I believe) [video=youtube;WLnQXBstKQo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WLnQXBstKQo&feature=related[/video]
I am curious to know what you (JD) think about claims of cattle mutililation from local area farmers. Can demons do these things, or is this the work of the darkened heart of the unregenerate man?


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## Quickened

JDwiseman

What ended up happening with that discussion you had with the man? I found your post very thought provoking and interesting. I was curious as to what he thought about your post.


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## ericfromcowtown

Call me a cynic, but I tend to lump all the Sasquatch sightings and U.F.O. / Area 51 hobbyists, in with the Loch Ness Monster and guys who wear tin-foil on their head to stop the government from controlling their thoughts.  I suspect that in the vast majority of cases, such sightings are simply the result of over-active / over-tired imaginations, mental delusions, or have been induced by alcohol or drugs. 

Yes, I recognize that there is a spiritual realm and that demons do exist, but I also believe that Satan is now chained and that demons are not as powerful or common place (in so far as they are made visible to us) as many would have us believe.


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## ascottishsamurai

JDWiseman said:


> Later on in his works, Strieber describes his encounter in these words: "I felt an absolutely indescribable sense of menace. It was hell on earth to be there and yet I couldn't move, couldn't cry out, and couldn't get away. I lay as still as death, suffering inner agonies. Whatever was there seemed so monstrously ugly, so filthy and dark and sinister ... I still remember that thing crouching there, so terribly ugly, its arms and legs like limbs of a great insect, its eyes glaring at me." At least from looking online, I believe that is from Transformation, pg. 121. Also see this, from Transformation pp. 44-45: "Increasingly I felt as if I were entering a struggle that might be a struggle for my soul, my essence, or whatever part of me might have reference to the eternal... It was clear that the soul was very much at issue. People [have] experienced feeling as if their souls were being dragged from their bodies. More than one person had seen the visitors in the context of near-death experience."





> The paralysis described is similar to accounts I've heard from those who have been oppressed by a demonic force. I have known both Christian and non-Christian who have reported demonic oppression- figures devoid of light or reflective capability hovering over their bed or standing at their door, laying in paralysis or falling to their knees in agony over the immense, menacing sorrow and hate they felt while it was there, and even the entity grabbing their arm, causing them to feel it burn while remaining devoid of any pigmentation other than the blackest of black.
> 
> In both situations, the oppressor only left when a prayer was given to God or mention of Christ was made.
> 
> Scary stuff that I hope never to have to endure. I would rather remain oblivious all my life and learn only after my death that I was in the lion's den the whole time.



Once again I am amazed at God's providence and protection. Last year I myself had a demonic encounter after allowing myself to get far too involved in fantasy and role playing. Several things lead up to that point, but what continues to amaze me is the continuity with which my own frightful experience matches accounts others have shared. 

I have had several opportunities to share my testimony with others, and God by His grace has used my frightful experience to warn them of the dangers of the occult and the many subtle ways the Devil uses to lure us into entrapment. 

During one such opportunity, I had to write my entire testimony, which I will quote down below, because the similarities are just amazing. Keep in mind the context of my retelling of this testimony. It was in a letter to a friend, so some of the wording and things may sound odd because of that. 



> It really started when we moved from NC. I was going through a Tyme of rebellion as it was, and moving away from friends like we did to use the old worn out phrase was really just the "straw that broke the camel's back". I got angry, depressed...I began to hate life, my parents, and ultimately God for my circumstances. It was stupid, and very sinful, and I feel foolish for ever thinking that way.
> 
> At one really low point I even held a knife to my wrist. I don't think looking back at that event that I ever would have actually followed through with that, as I still believed in God and everything, but it was really just a desperate cry for attention as such things tend to be.
> 
> From that point my outward symptoms got better, but inwardly I still sought an escape, so I turned to fantasy. For years I had been obsessed with Star Wars...dangerously so. Then a friend told me about role playing. In a role play you and several other people all write about different characters (usually based off of oneself) as they move and interact within the arc of a story. Think of it like five to fifteen people all writing a book at the same Tyme.
> 
> Within several of these such role plays I began to weave stories of Jedi Knights with great command of the Force, heroic in battle and famed for their youthful skill and command of their abilities...things I wished to have on all fronts. By this point I was eating a lot due to depression and was weighing in near three hundred pounds, so I really wanted to be that fit powerful character I was writing about so much.
> 
> A little later on I discovered that Star Wars was not the only setting these role plays could take place in. In fact, the possibilities were nearly limitless. So after lots and lots of experience, I set off to try my hand in other worlds.
> 
> Several of my friends began to take an interest in the concept of role playing, but they lacked the means themselves to participate in any of the online role plays that I like to write in. So we did some research and found out about a board game called Dungeons and Dragons. As young children (the friends that I played with were all relatives of either pastors or elders of various churches) we had been warned never to play that game. But what would happen if we created our own? Could we keep it safe, by leaving out all of the "bad magic" that the game had and only let our characters act for good?
> 
> And so after purchasing the core rule book for the real board game (set of course, to the Star Wars universe since I was most familiar with that universe and would be most easily able to understand the rules if they were set within that realm) and pooling together all of the various pieces for our Heroscape board games we set out to construct a world. We built an ecosystem, towns, stories, weapons, and of course magic to govern our world. And then we set out to play. I was working out and loosing some pretty serious weight by this Tyme and as a result starting to relate more and more with the characters that I was writing about.
> 
> I took particular interest in playing a Battlemage, a character that uses a combination of magic and combative prowess to trample any opponent. But even after we stopped playing I couldn't let it go. I was obsessed with the game, and was always thinking of new stories maps and characters to play within that world, and of course thinking of new spells to have my character use. Certain all the while that I was safe from the dangers of such thought patterns.
> 
> But subconsciously they started to get a foothold. I would catch myself looking across the room and reach my hand out to imagine myself lifting that book over there and making it hover in place.
> 
> Meanwhile online, I was getting better and better at role playing. So much so, that I was promoted on one website and allowed to teach newcomers how to better write about their characters. This training was best accomplished, I was taught, by making sure that they understood just how such powers would work "if they were real". All the Tyme wishing, longing, that they really were.
> 
> And so I taught, slowly quietly I taught other people, fellow Christians in a few cases, the delicate art and subtle principles of gnosticism. Finally after lots and lots of experience with teaching like this, and lots of knowledge acquired about the hypothetical principals of such worlds, I set out to create my own world.
> 
> The land was called Feyland, and from a fictional perspective it had a lot of potential. So, in complete and utter stupidity created my own system of magic to govern this world...and I based it off of Latin root words. Now fellow writers had a complete system of magic with which they could have their characters use within the world. I was very proud. I was very foolish.
> 
> After that it all came crashing down around me. One night I started dreaming feverishly. In my dream we were in a church in some sort of desert somewhere. My family and I were in the audience, and a man wearing a red oriental robe was speaking. He was talking about his new personality and how they were about to become one. Suddenly, with a loud crack like thunder a luminous blue arrow appeared on his forehead pointing down and his voice deepened dramatically. The new voice introduced itself a a demon and told us his name (I did not remember it even the morning after, but I an positive that the name started with a "V"). It explained that it and the man speaking before were merging, and that they would become one soon. I immediately got the sense that there was some inherent danger to my brother Sam in the audience while this man was speaking. As if he was influencing him some how. There was another loud crack and this Tyme the arrow was pointing upward. The man was speaking again, but his voice seemed to resemble that of the demon's more closely, and he was no longer speaking of the demon as a separate entity. Then something changed about the man's face, and with sudden horror I realized that it was me up on that podium. I woke up.
> 
> When I awoke I found that I could not move. I felt as though I were on a cliff's edge, with a drop into absolute darkness to my left and the solid safety of the ground to my right, but I was unable to move an inch toward either. My mind was racing and for some reason settled on the image of the rubbermaid box I kept all of my role paying pieces in and my heart was gripped with cold fear. Then suddenly I felt as if a black hand were reaching inside my chest toward my heart itself. In desperation I prayed within my head, "Lord God, please protect me!". Instantly the hand drew back, but did not dissolve. A second Tyme it tried to reach my heart. A second Tyme I cried out for help inwardly. With a final surge, it attempted to grab a hold and I once again cried out for aid. The hand dissolved, and I found that I was able to move once again. I immediately fell to thanking the Lord for his protection. After that I looked at my clock, it was three a.m.
> 
> In the morning when I went down for breakfast, still somewhat shaken I heard my brother describe to my mother that he had woken up and felt really scared in the middle of the night. She replied that indeed he had, that he had woken up at about three o'clock that night before. I broke down. Later that night I told my dad the whole story.
> 
> A month or two went by and I attended TFY. While I was there I got a call from my father one Sunday afternoon. He explained that he wanted to read me a excerpt from a book he had been reading called UnHoly Spirits, by Gary North.
> 
> 
> 
> In one of these visionary states, at the age of thirty, there appeared to him a host of angels in a blaze of golden light. he also "saw" two guardians holding trumpets. The next day these guardians again appeared to him, standing by a curtain which was slightly pulled aside. Through the opening a stage was visible and a man clad in oriental dress, wearing a turban with a splendid diadem, stepped forward. suddenly Croiset saw that the Oriental's face began to show his own features! "To Croiset, the Oriental symbolized a paranormally gifted superman," explains Dr. Tenhaeff. "Croiset's vision meant to him the promise that, in the future, he would accomplish great things as a Magus-the more so because the Oriental's face started to show his own features. Croiset felt that he was receiving the call from a Higher Power.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Then I got the chance to speak with another brother in Christ who related his own tale similar to mine, in which a demon had dragged him backwards around a large mansion (he surmised in Hell perhaps?) and when he awoke he could see a large gray mist like substance holding him down. He could not move. He said that he shouted out "Jesus help me!" and the mist disappeared. He then told us about how in the past he had participated in a few acts of spiritism, undoubtedly opening up some doors in his own heart.
Click to expand...


Looking back, I now realize that I was in no real danger. For God's protection was always there, the Devil merely wanted me to think that I was in danger...but as you have also pointed out, he is a liar. 

1 John 4:3-5
"but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them."

I am so thankful for God's protection, and providentially this experience (much to the Evil One's chagrin, I'm sure) has only served to cement my faith in Christ.


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## Leslie

ericfromcowtown said:


> Call me a cynic, but I tend to lump all the Sasquatch sightings and U.F.O. / Area 51 hobbyists, in with the Loch Ness Monster and guys who wear tin-foil on their head to stop the government from controlling their thoughts.  I suspect that in the vast majority of cases, such sightings are simply the result of over-active / over-tired imaginations, mental delusions, or have been induced by alcohol or drugs.
> 
> Yes, I recognize that there is a spiritual realm and that demons do exist, but I also believe that Satan is now chained and that demons are not as powerful or common place (in so far as they are made visible to us) as many would have us believe.



What do you do with the synoptic gospel worldview which identifies demons as the cause of a variety of physical and mental aberations?

That was then and this is now?
They were wrong or exaggerating but we have it right?

It seems difficult to hold to 'sola scriptura', as even the confessions do, and still maintain what appears to be your view of paranormal phenomena. This is not to espouse uncritical acceptance of everything paranormal. It is merely to suggest that a disconnect between experience and scripture should be resolved in favor of a scriptural rather than an (in this case negative) experiential worldview.


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