# Peter Enns a ruling elder?



## jwright82 (Jun 26, 2010)

I just found out about this guy and when I looked him up his wikkipedia article said that he was a ruling elder in the PCA. How does a guy who gets dismissed from the faulculty of WTS stay a ruling elder? His website features an add by the BIOLOGOS foundation so I guess he likes that viewpoint of theistic evolution.


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## Romans922 (Jun 26, 2010)

He is at this church: http://www.trinitychurch.cc/staff.asp it says he has served as an elder...


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## tcalbrecht (Jun 26, 2010)

jwright82 said:


> I just found out about this guy and when I looked him up his wikkipedia article said that he was a ruling elder in the PCA. *How does a guy who gets dismissed from the faulculty of WTS stay a ruling elder?* His website features an add by the BIOLOGOS foundation so I guess he likes that viewpoint of theistic evolution.


 
Well, the simple answer would be that a denomination like the PCA still has process and procedures in place to determine the fitness of a man to serve as an officer. In the case of a ruling elder that process begins in the local Session. Being dismissed from an independent seminary is not cause to be stripped of one's ecclesiastical office.


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## Romans922 (Jun 26, 2010)

Of course, the Session he is under is coming into question from outsiders: Discerning Roman Catholic Tendencies Among Professing Reformed Churches


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## Willem van Oranje (Jun 26, 2010)

jwright82 said:


> I just found out about this guy and when I looked him up his wikkipedia article said that he was a ruling elder in the PCA. How does a guy who gets dismissed from the faulculty of WTS stay a ruling elder? His website features an add by the BIOLOGOS foundation so I guess he likes that viewpoint of theistic evolution.


 
Why don't you bring a charge to his session, if you feel that it's warranted? (And it probably is, from what I've read.)


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## Wayne (Jun 26, 2010)

Basically, guys, let's admit we don't have the facts in front of us. Without the facts, you don't even know if the church might have cut him loose several years ago.
Worse yet, without the facts we're just wasting our time and everyone else's. [& someone would look especially foolish if they brought a charge against someone who was no longer there]

General principle: 
If it is worth your time and concern, then it is worth the effort to gather all the facts so that you can make a proper decision and take the right course of action. 
Learn to do the research. There is great power in *knowing* that you have the facts in front of you *before* you speak.

Specific application: 
How old is that information on that web site. The copyright statement in the left-hand navigation bar is dated 2003-2007. 
Has anyone bothered to confirm that he is currently there? A simple phone call would answer the question. This is where you prove whether you are really concerned about the matter, by whether you take the time to dig up the facts.

Personal examination:
I had heard he had taken a post at Biblical Theological Seminary in Hatfield, PA. If that's the case, then it is unlikely that he's commuting to church in New York. Google maps indicates a 2.5 hr. drive along I-95. It can be done, but it's unlikely.

However, I took the time to check the BTS web site and he's not listed there. Again, that web site might also be out of date.However, he *is* actively involved with the BioLogos Foundation and may instead be on their payroll [BioLogos was established in 2007 by Francis Collins and is funded in part by the Templeton Foundation.] If Enns found his way onto the BioLogos payroll, then he has the freedom to live anywhere and might still be in Rye, NY. [whitepages.com can't find him there, but that's no proof]


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## jwright82 (Jun 27, 2010)

Well I wasn't saying he should or shouldn't be I was wondering about whether or not he was or not. I don't want to bring charges against someone I have never read personally, Plus I have been a member of this denomination for under a year so I am not into rocking any boats. I trust the powers that be that have experience handiling these situations, I have none. I just assumed that being removed from a faulculty as prestigious as WTS for theological reasons would be a given for any presbytery to at least investigate, and probally they have I don't know.


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## Edward (Jun 27, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> He is at this church: http://www.trinitychurch.cc/staff.asp it says he has served as an elder...


 
What is an _ex officio_ elder?


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## Wayne (Jun 27, 2010)

That inimitable source, Wikipedia, has this:



> An ex officio member is a member of a body (a board, committee, council, etc.) who is part of it by virtue of holding another office. The term is Latin, meaning literally "from the office", and the sense intended is "by right of office"; its use dates back to the Roman Republic.
> 
> A common misconception is that the participatory rights of ex officio members are limited by their status. This is incorrect, although their rights may be indeed limited by the by-laws of a particular body. Robert's Rules of Order, Newly Revised (10th ed.), clarifies that the term denotes only how one becomes a member of a group, not what one's rights are. It is a method of sitting on a committee, not a class of membership (466-67).[1] Frequently, ex officio members will abstain from voting, but unless by-laws constrain their rights, they are afforded the same rights as other members, including debate, making formal motions, and voting (466-67; 480).[2]



robertsrules.com has this:



> "Ex officio" is a Latin term meaning "by virtue of office or position." Ex-officio members of boards and committees, therefore, are persons who are members by virtue of some other office or position that they hold. For example, if the bylaws of an organization provide for a Committee on Finance consisting of the treasurer and three other members appointed by the president, the treasurer is said to be an ex-officio member of the finance committee, since he or she is automatically a member of that committee by virtue of the fact that he or she holds the office of treasurer.
> 
> Without exception, ex-officio members of boards and committees have exactly the same rights and privileges as do all other members, including, of course, the right to vote. There are, however, two instances in which ex-officio members are not counted in determining the number required for a quorum or in determining whether or not a quorum is present. These two instances are:



This then raises the interesting question whether the _Book of Church Order_ recognizes the concept of an _ex officio_ member of a Session? If so, then by virtue of what other office or position? I've not encountered this before.


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## Edward (Jun 27, 2010)

> This then raises the interesting question whether the Book of Church Order recognizes the concept of an ex officio member of a Session? If so, then by virtue of what other office or position? I've not encountered this before.



I am not familiar with the concept, either. I am hoping that one of my betters could shed some light on this. 

Secondary question - Would that be an Ex officio teaching elder or an Ex officio ruling elder?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jun 27, 2010)

Wayne said:


> That inimitable source, Wikipedia, has this:



Are you sure it isn't the omniscient site? I like them and refer to them often. I first read immutable. I know that isn't true. So I turned to Omniscient. LOL


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## tcalbrecht (Jun 28, 2010)

Romans922 said:


> Of course, the Session he is under is coming into question from outsiders: Discerning Roman Catholic Tendencies Among Professing Reformed Churches


 
Wake us when someone brings charges, then we'll know they are serious.


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