# World events and scripture



## Barney (Jan 19, 2022)

World events and scripture. 
So we have premillennialism that can seemingly look convincing and also the others, post, amill...
Let's just say there is undeniable evidence that the people in "control" of this world are luciferian and want a one world government, economy, and religion. I've done enough research to be convinced of this without a shadow of a doubt.
Is it possible that any other eschatology camps apart from premills believe this and think the mark of the beast and Rev 13:27 could very well be microchips?


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## Ed Walsh (Jan 19, 2022)

Barney said:


> World events and scripture.



An aside -
With the demise of the Roman Empire prophesied in Daniel 2, we have a sure word of prophesy that there will never again be another world-dominating empire like the four final kingdoms listed in Daniel. Many attempts have been made, but they were inferior and short-lived compared to kingdoms before the coming of Christ.

Daniel 2:31‭-‬45 KJV [_paragraph breaks are mine_]
Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible. 

This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass, his legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces. Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

This is the dream; and we will tell the interpretation thereof before the king.

Thou, O king, art a king of kings: for the God of heaven hath given thee a kingdom, power, and strength, and glory. And wheresoever the children of men dwell, the beasts of the field and the fowls of the heaven hath he given into thine hand, and hath made thee ruler over them all. Thou art this head of gold.

And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise. And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay. And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken. And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.

And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever. 

Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 19, 2022)

Barney said:


> World events and scripture.
> So we have premillennialism that can seemingly look convincing and also the others, post, amill...
> Let's just say there is undeniable evidence that the people in "control" of this world are luciferian and want a one world government, economy, and religion. I've done enough research to be convinced of this without a shadow of a doubt.
> Is it possible that any other eschatology camps apart from premills believe this and think the mark of the beast and Rev 13:27 could very well be microchips?



I am amil and believe in shadow govts controlling much of current affairs. My main problem with the mark of the beast = technology is that in the context it is the false prophet, the religious figure, making everyone get it. I really don't see that happening like that.

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## Barney (Jan 22, 2022)

Ed Walsh said:


> An aside -
> With the demise of the Roman Empire prophesied in Daniel 2, we have a sure word of prophesy that there will never again be another world-dominating empire like the four final kingdoms listed in Daniel. Many attempts have been made, but they were inferior and short-lived compared to kingdoms before the coming of Christ.
> 
> Daniel 2:31‭-‬45 KJV [_paragraph breaks are mine_]
> ...


Ed,
I hope your right and I do believe that scripture should be our guide in life. 
That said, I sincerely believe that Satan is doing quite well in his intentions to create another tower of babel in these times. I don't mean another physical tower but a one world government, a one world digital monetary system, and a one world religion. There is more than enough evidence for this that no one that makes the effort to research it can conclude otherwise. I'm therefore not sure how that fits in with that particular interpretation of that scripture.

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## Barney (Jan 22, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> I am amil and believe in shadow govts controlling much of current affairs. My main problem with the mark of the beast = technology is that in the context it is the false prophet, the religious figure, making everyone get it. I really don't see that happening like that.


Ramist,
That's an interesting point. Just thinking.. I know those at the top are Luciferian in their beliefs or religion so could the false prophet mean the whole of the luciferian/satanic religion? 
I believe Moderna called their vaccines something like an operating system. Rather like something that can be technologically connected too. Even altering thoughts, feelings, and even beliefs.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 22, 2022)

Barney said:


> Ramist,
> That's an interesting point. Just thinking.. I know those at the top are Luciferian in their beliefs or religion so could the false prophet mean the whole of the luciferian/satanic religion?
> I believe Moderna called their vaccines something like an operating system. Rather like something that can be technologically connected too. Even altering thoughts, feelings, and even beliefs.



I believe the False Prophet will definitely be Luciferian. I also suppose some ancient Sumerian connection. I'm hesitant to say the vaccines play any role in this, since Scripture says the False Prophet will make everyone take the Mark.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 22, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> My main problem with the mark of the beast = technology is that in the context it is the false prophet, the religious figure, making everyone get it. I really don't see that happening like that.



Do you not identify it with TGC?


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## RamistThomist (Jan 22, 2022)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Do you not identify it with TGC?



Give TGC a year. They spent the last four years riding the wave of moderatism and the recently the progressives started ripping them apart. TGC is about to decide whether they are biblical or apostate.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jan 22, 2022)

Hello Barney,

This was discussed in a recent thread, and I posted this: Ammillenialism and the Mark of the Beast.

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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 22, 2022)

Barney said:


> That said, I sincerely believe that Satan is doing quite well in his intentions to create another tower of babel in these times. I don't mean another physical tower but a one world government, a one world digital monetary system, and a one world religion. There is more than enough evidence for this that no one that makes the effort to research it can conclude otherwise. I'm therefore not sure how that fits in with that particular interpretation of that scripture.



I agree entirely with these observations as to what Satan is doing through his minions. One can acknowledge this point without believing that current events are the actual fulfilment of prophecy. For example, I do not believe that vax passports, digital ID, or microchips in people's hands are actually the mark of the beast; I do believe that they are a crude imitation of the mark of the beast, as they echo the same Satanic sentiments.

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## cmiersma (Jan 23, 2022)

Rev. 15:2 describes those who get the victory over the mark of the beast, so I would say that the mark of the beast is actually a spiritual reality. A comparison could be made between the writing of the law Deut. 6:8, the sealing of the elect Rev. 7:3, and the children of God in Rev. 14:1. Arguably, the mark of the beast could refer to the ongoing reality that some conformance to the bare letter of the second table of the law (the six commandments from honor to not coveting), is required to survive in modern society. In particular, society multiplies rules and enforces them with economic consequences. Because the Christian can feel that he has "grossly transgressed all the commandments of God and kept none of them (Heidelberg Catechism QA 60)," the idea of some sin that can be forced on Christians should evidently be false. Persecution can only suppress the outward form the Christian religion for a time, it cannot actually destroy it. The Devil's chief weapon has always been lies and false doctrine, and the fragmented nature of the church institute together with the existence of solid doctrinal standards from the time of the Reformation are a protection against that. Arguably, some of the other elements of Rev. 13 have basically been in existence since WWII, including nuclear weapons, space exploration (the tower), and a society given over to television and internet, and which mocks Christians. When you read this you are looking at a bunch of glass and fire (electricity). The connection between Rev. 15:2 and Rev. 13:15-16 should not be ignored.

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## Ed Walsh (Jan 23, 2022)

Barney said:


> So we have premillennialism that can seemingly look convincing and also the others, post, amill...
> Let's just say there is undeniable evidence that the people in "control" of this world are luciferian and want a one world government, economy, and religion. I've done enough research to be convinced of this without a shadow of a doubt.
> Is it possible that any other eschatology camps apart from premills believe this and think the mark of the beast and Rev 13:27 could very well be microchips?



Greetings all,

I think the idea of an outward mark, tattoo, microchip, or whatever sealing one's eternal fate is silly, unBiblical, and even refuted by the Book of Revelation itself.

I might as well tell you my conclusion before I give you the Biblical support.

All religion is a matter of the heart and is evidenced by what we _think_ and _do_ to a great degree. Or, to put it Biblically, in James' fashion (James 1:26–27), we can say that what we _think_ and _do_ is displayed outwardly in our speech and actions. Get it? What we _think_ and _do_. By what is in our _head_ (heart) and _hand_ (works). Isn't it obvious? It is the love of and obedience to the world system. This heart matter is the mark of the beast. There may be some outward requirement that goes along with the state of our hearts, like in the early church days by Rome. But the central meaning of (Revelation 13:16) must be a matter of the inner man.

Making much of an outward mark on the forehead or hand is to think like the Pharisees, for whom all religion was almost exclusively an external thing. Jesus often corrected and rebuked them for wrong-headed thinking.

Mark 7:14-23​And when he had called all the people unto him, he said unto them, Hearken unto me every one of you, and understand: there is nothing from without a man, that entering into him can defile him: but the things which come out of him, those are they that defile the man. If any man have ears to hear, let him hear.​​And when he was entered into the house from the people, his disciples asked him concerning the parable.​​And he saith unto them, Are ye so without understanding also? Do ye not perceive, that whatsoever thing from without entereth into the man, it cannot defile him; because it entereth not into his heart, but into the belly, and goeth out into the draught, purging all meats?​​And he said, That which cometh out of the man, that defileth the man. For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.​
Here are a few related Scriptures. You will see that the "mark" received is either altogether spiritual, or represent something spiritual.

Ezekiel 9:4 (KJV)​and the LORD said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof.​​Isaiah 49:16 (KJV)​Behold, I have graven thee upon the palms of my hands; thy walls are continually before me.​​Jeremiah 3:3 (KJV)​Therefore the showers have been withholden, and there hath been no latter rain; and thou hadst a whore's forehead, thou refusedst to be ashamed.​​Ezekiel 3:8–9 (KJV)​Behold, I have made thy face strong against their faces, and thy forehead strong against their foreheads.​As an adamant harder than flint have I made thy forehead: fear them not, neither be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house.​​Revelation 7:3 (KJV)​saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads.​
Does anyone think these servants of God received a literal mark? Why then is it so easy to assume the mark of the beast is some outward sign?
You get the idea you could take the mark by accident and thus seal your fate.

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## Taylor (Jan 23, 2022)

Ed Walsh said:


> Greetings all,
> 
> I think the idea of an outward mark, tattoo, microchip, or whatever sealing one's eternal fate is silly, unBiblical, and even refuted by the Book of Revelation itself.
> 
> ...


I think this is right. Another thing that solidifies this understanding in my mind is the fact that in Deuteronomy 6 the people of God are told, “These commandments that I give you today are to be upon your hearts. … Tie them as symbols on your *hands* and bind them on your *foreheads*” (Deut. 6:6, 8; emphasis added). So, in essence, the mark of the beast is simply the opposite of allegiance to the Lord.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 23, 2022)

Ed Walsh said:


> Greetings all,
> 
> I think the idea of an outward mark, tattoo, microchip, or whatever sealing one's eternal fate is silly, unBiblical, and even refuted by the Book of Revelation itself.
> 
> ...



I think a better way of saying it is that there is evidence in Scripture that it is symbolic. That doesn't mean that an outward mark is silly or unbiblical. At most, it means that there isn't enough biblical evidence. 

The only difficulty with the symbolic view is that those who take the mark are taking the mark. It is a decisive action that determines whether you can buy or sell. The False Prophet is the one doing it. That doesn't rule out a symbolic view, but it gives prima facie evidence to its being something noticeable.


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## Ed Walsh (Jan 23, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> I think a better way of saying it is that there is evidence in Scripture that it is symbolic. That doesn't mean that an outward mark is silly or unbiblical. At most, it means that there isn't enough biblical evidence.



Thanks for your comments.

Remember, I did say. - "There may be some outward requirement that goes along with the state of our hearts, like in the early church days by Rome. But the central meaning of (Revelation 13:16) must be a matter of the inner man."



RamistThomist said:


> The only difficulty with the symbolic view is that those who take the mark are taking the mark. It is a decisive action that determines whether you can buy or sell. The False Prophet is the one doing it. That doesn't rule out a symbolic view, but it gives prima facie evidence to its being something noticeable.



I have been pretty sick so maybe I'm being lazy, but where is this point made in the Bible? "those who take the mark are taking the mark."

EDIT: Oops! I found it. Rev 14:9

Edit 2:
While the Gk word is sometimes translated as 'take'. In Revelation I found the following:

I checked 60 Bible versions and take, take, taketh is only found in three, fairly obscure versions, e.g., The Message, Expanded Bible, New English Translation, and the Worldwide English version.

One of the translations, [Expanded Bible], has two options in brackets [receives; takes] The remaining 56 translations have 'receive, receives, receiveth.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 23, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> I think a better way of saying it is that there is evidence in Scripture that it is symbolic. That doesn't mean that an outward mark is silly or unbiblical. At most, it means that there isn't enough biblical evidence.
> 
> The only difficulty with the symbolic view is that those who take the mark are taking the mark. It is a decisive action that determines whether you can buy or sell. The False Prophet is the one doing it. That doesn't rule out a symbolic view, but it gives prima facie evidence to its being something noticeable.



The reference to buying and selling rules out a "spiritual only" interpretation, as that view makes the reference to buying and selling essentially meaningless. It also fits in too neatly with a Bourgeois Reformed mindset that uses the errors and excesses of Fundamentalists as an excuse for not bearing Christ's reproach when providentially called upon to do so.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 23, 2022)

Ed Walsh said:


> Thanks for your comments.
> 
> Remember, I did say. - "There may be some outward requirement that goes along with the state of our hearts, like in the early church days by Rome. But the central meaning of (Revelation 13:16) must be a matter of the inner man."
> 
> ...



I don't see a huge practical difference between take and receive.


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## Ed Walsh (Jan 23, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> I don't see a huge practical difference between take and receive.



I don't either. It just seemed you were trying to stress the word 'take' to mean something special in this case. All unbelievers choose evil over good, but again, it seemed like you were stressing a difference in this 'taking' than other bas choices.

I'm sure willing to drop the subject and get back to something more edifying.

Thanks,

Ed


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## Barney (Jan 23, 2022)

Ed said:
With the demise of the Roman Empire prophesied in Daniel 2, we have a sure word of prophesy that there will never again be another world-dominating empire like the four final kingdoms listed in Daniel. Many attempts have been made, but they were inferior and short-lived compared to kingdoms before the coming of Christ.

Is the power and control that the occult 'elite' globalists have not world dominating? I think in a sense it is. Satan wants to do the opposite of what God wants. He wants to rule the world and excert as much power as possible over it through the elite globalists.
The whole COVID event was meticulously planned on a world wide scale. And obviously a great leap towards their agendas.
It seems that all those with the mark must be the goats and those without are the sheep. I think the vaccines are a pathway to more control. The lockdowns are towards bringing the economies to a standstill or collapse so they can offer a new way, a reset. 
Ecumenicalism is part of a bringing about of a world religion.
Apparently the present Pope is all for ecumenicalism and globalism. They are trying to get all this done as quickly as they can now. 
Transhumanism is part of the picture too. There will be technology in vaccines that the common man doesn't fully understand.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 23, 2022)

Ed Walsh said:


> I don't either. It just seemed you were trying to stress the word 'take' to mean something special in this case. All unbelievers choose evil over good, but again, it seemed like you were stressing a difference in this 'taking' than other bas choices.
> 
> I'm sure willing to drop the subject and get back to something more edifying.
> 
> ...



Our conversation is edifying and relevant. My point was that those who take (or receive) the Mark know what they are doing.


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## Barney (Jan 24, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> Our conversation is edifying and relevant. My point was that those who take (or receive) the Mark know what they are doing.


Hi Ramist, 
Please can you direct me to 'coronavirus forum' if there's such a place? Or some where I can post about it.
Thanks


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## RamistThomist (Jan 24, 2022)

Barney said:


> Hi Ramist,
> Please can you direct me to 'coronavirus forum' if there's such a place? Or some where I can post about it.
> Thanks



A moderator can probably help you. I don't know much about it.


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## Logan (Jan 24, 2022)

Barney said:


> Hi Ramist,
> Please can you direct me to 'coronavirus forum' if there's such a place? Or some where I can post about it.
> Thanks



Go to this page:


https://www.puritanboard.com/account/preferences



And at the bottom of the first section you can choose to opt into the Coronavirus, the Puritan Pub, and the Politics & Government forums.

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## Barney (Jan 24, 2022)

Logan said:


> Go to this page:
> 
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/account/preferences
> ...


Much appreciated.


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## Barney (Jan 24, 2022)

Logan said:


> Go to this page:
> 
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/account/preferences
> ...


I couldn't work it out. It took me to my account preferences but I couldn't see anything?


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## Logan (Jan 24, 2022)

Barney said:


> I couldn't work it out. It took me to my account preferences but I couldn't see anything?


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## Barney (Jan 24, 2022)

Still can't. Maybe it's because I'm on a cell phone? Is there a mobile app? Or do I need to use a laptop?


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## retroGRAD3 (Jan 24, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> I am amil and believe in shadow govts controlling much of current affairs. My main problem with the mark of the beast = technology is that in the context it is the *false prophet, the religious figure, making everyone get it.* I really don't see that happening like that.


I would say that covid is indeed a new religion, the government being both the beast and the false prophet. There are many places where if you don't get the jab, you are not allowed to buy or sell (and they do indeed want EVERYONE to get it).

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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 24, 2022)

Barney said:


> Still can't. Maybe it's because I'm on a cell phone? Is there a mobile app? Or do I need to use a laptop?


see if you’re now opted in.

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## Taylor (Jan 24, 2022)

Barney said:


> Still can't. Maybe it's because I'm on a cell phone? Is there a mobile app? Or do I need to use a laptop?


It may be because you don’t have 25 posts yet. There are some areas of Puritan Board that are inaccessible until you have that many. I imagine these opt-in forums are set up that way.

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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 24, 2022)

I’m not sure if there’s a certain number of posts required before opt-in, @NaphtaliPress Here’s the how-to post: https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/coronavirus-forum-is-an-opt-in-forum.106954/#post-1287915

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## NaphtaliPress (Jan 24, 2022)

Barney said:


> Still can't. Maybe it's because I'm on a cell phone? Is there a mobile app? Or do I need to use a laptop?





Jeri Tanner said:


> I’m not sure if there’s a certain number of posts required before opt-in, @NaphtaliPress Here’s the how-to post: https://www.puritanboard.com/threads/coronavirus-forum-is-an-opt-in-forum.106954/#post-1287915


Yes; you need 26 posts to get access to any private members only forums.

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## Logan (Jan 25, 2022)

A.Joseph said:


> _“5G will be the foundation for virtual reality, autonomous driving, the internet of things and stuff we can't even yet imagine.” _https://www.wsj.com/podcasts/the-jo...-rollout/efbaf981-1f44-4978-9dcf-c22fba86c28d
> ….. HARD PASS


5G is the same technology that has been around for decades (radio frequencies), just with more stations. You are bombarded with exactly the same frequencies from the sun. It's been used for other purposes for decades, it's just being re-used for a different purpose. There's nothing mysterious, suspicious, or even really different about it. And if "mRNA vaccine ingredients" interacted with it, it would already be happening because those frequencies are already used.

It's literally just faster Internet for your phone.

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## Smeagol (Jan 25, 2022)

Logan said:


> 5G is the same technology that has been around for decades (radio frequencies), just with more stations. You are bombarded with exactly the same frequencies from the sun. It's been used for other purposes for decades, it's just being re-used for a different purpose. There's nothing mysterious, suspicious, or even really different about it. And if "mRNA vaccine ingredients" interacted with it, it would already be happening because those frequencies are already used.
> 
> It's literally just faster Internet for your phone.


Your wrong!

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## pmachapman (Jan 25, 2022)

Logan said:


> 5G is the same technology that has been around for decades (radio frequencies), just with more stations. You are bombarded with exactly the same frequencies from the sun. It's been used for other purposes for decades, it's just being re-used for a different purpose. There's nothing mysterious, suspicious, or even really different about it. And if "mRNA vaccine ingredients" interacted with it, it would already be happening because those frequencies are already used.
> 
> It's literally just faster Internet for your phone.


Not necessarily.

5G usually refers to frequencies in 3.5GHz spectrum. As I understand it, a problem with the higher spectrum is that we need many more towers to provide the appropriate coverage. These towers are obviously strong emitters to get the required coverage, and are starting to cause issues from interference with other electrical equipment, so for example, some airlines are refusing to fly into airports in the US with 5G equipment nearby (Source: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2022/jan/19/airlines-cancel-some-us-flights-over-5g-concerns).

As well as the danger to existing electronic equipment (and thus life and limb via plane crashes, pacemakers being interrupted, etc), if my memory serves me right, experiments were done after the war where they found that microwaves (1GHz+) caused pops and clicks in people's ears which turned out to be the water molecules heating up in their inner ear.

Of course these frequencies are emitted from the sun (and are present in space), but the sun is not a powerful emitter in your backyard, and we have the ionosphere between us and the sun.

I have a friend who suffer from bad sleeplessness when home, and so set up a faraday cage around their bed (you can also get "tin foil hats" that look like regular beanies/toques) and found the headaches disappeared. They attribute it to 5G as they have 3 towers emitting 2.4 to 6GHz right next door - maybe their brain was being lightly sautéed, or maybe it was mental stress from knowing the towers were next door - who knows. The exact cause is impossible to determine as there has been no real research done into the long term effects of prolonged close exposure to the technology.

That is the only thing which concerns me about 5G, and many other things in the world today is we are rolling all sorts of things out on large scale with little research on longterm effects. Our civilisation seems to think that it understands everything to such a degree that it cannot misstep.

Finally, I am not an electrical engineer, so please correct me if I am wrong on anything above...


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## Jason F. (Jan 25, 2022)

Logan said:


> Go to this page:
> 
> 
> https://www.puritanboard.com/account/preferences
> ...


Not to derail the thread, but what is the Puritan Pub?


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## Logan (Jan 25, 2022)

pmachapman said:


> Finally, I am not an electrical engineer, so please correct me if I am wrong on anything above...



Depends on how deep you want to go 
I'm an electrical engineer with a B.S. specialization in electromagnetics and M.S. in electromagnetics, radar, and wireless communication.

In the electromagnetic world, 3.5 GHz isn't particularly high and doesn't suffer from atmospheric attenuation except over extremely long distances (dozens of miles). 5G doesn't refer to a specific frequency (multiple bands are used), but to the generation of communication technology. Because the throughput is so high, more towers are needed but this does not necessarily equate to more radiated power. Power drops off as the inverse of the distance to the fourth power so radiated power from your cell phone or wifi router to your body is typically going to be orders of magnitude higher than anything from a tower.

The "danger" to electronic equipment is specifically because similar frequencies are used for both types of equipment, thus the possibility of interference (though this has not actually been seen in any test I'm aware of), not so much power levels. Interference happens with all devices and you have to filter it out or use pulse encoding or some such technique to mitigate that, but it's not inherently "dangerous" to equipment. I'm unware of how pacemakers could be affected by these frequencies.

Microwave ovens work by dielectric heating, and water has multiple resonance points. A microwave oven works because the food is in extremely close proximity to a high-powered source, but even that wouldn't harm you if you were just a short distance away. The radiation coming from a tower isn't even close to the power level required, nor is 3.5 GHz an optimal frequency (the 2.45 GHz used by most microwave ovens isn't optimal either).

Not sure what you consider "long term" but all frequencies on the spectrum that we can use have been in use for decades. Radio and television have much higher power levels, although they are lower frequencies. So I reiterate that you're really not being exposed to anything new, either power levels or frequency...just maybe more of the same in certain areas (large cities).

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## pmachapman (Jan 26, 2022)

Logan said:


> I'm unware of how pacemakers could be affected by these frequencies.


Thanks, Logan that was helpful. I knew there was an electrical engineer on PB, I just couldn't remember whether it was you or someone else 

My only real experience with this all is in designing 2.4GHz and 5GHz WiFi networks and the radii of the APs at the different frequencies, channels, and the effects of walls, reflection, etc.

For pacemakers I've seen instructions stating not to keep your cellphone near it, but I would imagine it is a proximity thing. For a time at the local hospital, many wireless devices were banned from the wards for reasons of interference. This is no longer the case. Maybe we were just more cautious in previous years, or just didn't know?

I was told by a pilot once that the only reasons cellphones are banned on a plane is because 1) he can hear the noise when you receive an SMS and it bugs him, and 2) The towers below will get confused as your phone flicks between them. I assume there must be a risk of interference. Seeing the recent news articles on planes refusing to land near airports has made me think that perhaps the new 5G transmitters are just a wee bit too powerful?

My concerns about 5G lie really only around that they seem to be quite powerful transmitters, and where they are placed to ensure the fastest internet possible.


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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 26, 2022)

Barney (OP) would probably appreciate this thread getting back on track. If anyone has anything else helpful to say on his topic then please say away.


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## PaulAB (Jan 27, 2022)

Ed Walsh said:


> Thanks for your comments.
> 
> Remember, I did say. - "There may be some outward requirement that goes along with the state of our hearts, like in the early church days by Rome. But the central meaning of (Revelation 13:16) must be a matter of the inner man."
> 
> ...


The word in question {λαμβάνει} while seemingly contradictory to the English-speaking mind, in that it is correctly translated - receive and take - which in English have a passive and active meaning (not grammatical active and passive) respectively. I think they are quite conjoined in the English - accept, which reveals that "receive" is not a passive receipt, but an active taking of what is offered.
Therefore, the taking of the mark is not deceptively thrust upon you (or injected into you), but rather, it is the personal acceptance of something which is contrary to the Scriptures - an act of false faith, as it were. More in the area of 2 Corinthians:14-18.


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