# efeminate men



## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

I believe scripture speaks to this issue, but I am not sure how clear it is on how specific I am going to get here.

Is it sinful for a man to act "feminine"? I don't mean homosexual in any way! But men who speak like a woman, walk like one, and sort of just "carry themselves" in such a manner.

Do you believe this can be helped by those that act in such a way?

Just curious as to everyones opinion on this. I am not making any judgment as I know many good men who could fit this description.


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## lwadkins (Jan 20, 2005)

Hmmm, I'm wondering if "effeminant behavior" would be defined by everyone the same way. Does the bible define it other in the area of dress?


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

Have you ever seen a comedians impersonation of a gay man? Well I am thinking something like that only the man is 100% straight.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jan 20, 2005)

If he does his duty as a godly man then let him be. Chalk it up to a personality difference.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by houseparent_
> ...



Are you talkin to me?


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

Yea, I aint no drunken father foo!:bigsmile:


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 20, 2005)

I basically agree with Patrick here. I see no problem with it as long as they don't try and blur the roles as men that Scripture clearly gives them or get directly focused on "being feminine," by which I mean it should be their natural personality, and not an attempt to stand out by calling themselves "metrosexual" or what have you.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

I went to high school with a few guys who seemed gay but weren't. They talked in that effeminate/slured style of speech, ran like a girl (in gym class everyone cracked up at these guys) and hung out with girls allthe time gossipping and such.

Yet they all loved females, and grew up to get married and have families.

My wifes cousin is a pretty strong believer and follower of Christ, but you could mistake him for being gay if you only knew him casually. He talks efeminate, walks somewhat "girly", and has such a soft spoken "tuchy feely" attitude that it can be "creepy".

But he knows his bible and praises the Lord for everything. He says wonderful prayers as well. I almost feel bad for him and wish I could "toughen him up" but I am sure he would have none of it.

So you guys don't think it would be appropriate to ever broach the subject?


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> So you guys don't think it would be appropriate to ever broach the subject?



Not in a "you _should_ or _need to_ change" way, but if it's just a casual personality discussion, I say sure why not. I'd feel comfortable with someone talking to me about my introversion, and I don't really see a difference in the case you're talking about.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

Ok, so it's the approach.

Got it!


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## pastorway (Jan 20, 2005)

BUT wait.....

the Bible says:

*1 Corinthians 6*
9Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God. 

The Greek word translated "homosexuals" is the word _malakos_, which means literally "soft" and refers specifically to "effeminate men". The KJV translates the word "effeminate" in fact. 

Men should teach men to be men! Manly men! Not feminine men. A man that acts like a woman may not be a homosexual, but he is confused about how to act like the man God created him to be. Men and women are distinct from each other, having distinct roles in the family and the church. There should be no confusion about it. And if a person looks at you and wonders, "Is he gay?" then it is time to sit down and get real about being a man! Don't leave any doubt about it!

Phillip


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

> The KJV translates the word "effeminate" in fact.



I thought so!



> if a person looks at you and wonders, "Is he gay?" then it is time to sit down and get real about being a man! Don't leave any doubt about it!



This was sort of my line of thinking at the start of this thread. But I don't want to jump right in like that unless I feel it is definately the thing to do.


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## Peter (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> BUT wait.....
> 
> the Bible says:
> ...



I agree. 

oh wait, I mean:


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> Men should teach men to be men! Manly men! Not feminine men. A man that acts like a woman may not be a homosexual, but he is confused about how to act like the man God created him to be. Men and women are distinct from each other, having distinct roles in the family and the church. There should be no confusion about it. And if a person looks at you and wonders, "Is he gay?" then it is time to sit down and get real about being a man! Don't leave any doubt about it!



I agree with the thrust of your point here, but think that sometimes our concept of just what a "man" is may come more from our cultural upbringing than the Bible. In other words, what does Scripture specify the distinction in roles should be? Going beyond biblical bounds seems to be binding the conscience without warrant. And I'm not talking about someone who specifically tries to be "metro" for uniqueness, but one who has some natural actions and personality facets that happen to be interpreted by many around him to be "feminine," when in actuality there may be no biblical justification for that particular classification, and they may be unjustly binding his conscience in a matter in which the Bible does not.


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## turmeric (Jan 20, 2005)

What is a man? Someone with a deep voice? a heavy build? Likes football?

What if a guy just ain't built that way? I'm not talking about the campy, affected thing some gay guys do - some guys have naturally soft voices and are small-boned and artistic. They, in particular, need their manhood affirmed, I would think.

Oops, didn't see your post, Chris!

[Edited on 21-1-2005 by turmeric]


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> What is a man? Someone with a deep voice? a heavy build? Likes football?
> 
> What if a guy just ain't built that way? I'm not talking about the campy, affected thing some gay guys do - some guys have naturally soft voices and are small-boned and artistic. They, in particular, need their manhood affirmed, I would think.



Good points, and I think a good illustration of how _some_ of the points that we take for granted as being necessarily "masculine" qualities may in fact just be cultural influences.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

Making me think, but most importantly pray!

Thanks all, this is why I love this place (A manly love though  )


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> Oops, didn't see your post, Chris!



I think your post and examples make the point all the more.


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## pastorway (Jan 20, 2005)

Not all men are from Texas. Some came from Tennessee too! Without those Tennessee men there would not be Texas men!

Notice above that I made the point about the need in the church today especially to understand the role that God has for men in the home and church. Fulfilling his God given role will show him how to act like a man.

I do not think we should all be John Wayne. And there are some things that are cultural and not necessarily Biblical that are involved here. But overall, do you think it is a good thing for people to think a man is a homosexual?

Some men grow up without a male influence. Some are indeed more "soft". But even then, we need to encourage one another to be men!

I recommend a few resources along these lines:

The Biblical Counsel on Manhood and Womanhood
Vision Forum - All American Boys Adventure Catalog

Phillip


[Edited on 1-21-05 by pastorway]


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by turmeric_
> ...



I think that would be "A man's man" but that statement always creeped me out even though it's supposed to be a compliment.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 20, 2005)




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## ChristianasJourney (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> Not all men are from Texas. Some came from Tennessee too! Without those Tennessee men there would not be Texas men!



WooHoo! That's my man!

But really, even if Pastor Way hadn't affirmed all of my male ancestors on my grandmother's side. I still would've agreed with him.

I have seen "soft" men, who are unmistakably men in thought and actions. Men have a God-given leadership role in our society and in our homes and that authority should come out in the way they carry themselves, even if nature has not given them the brawny toughness of John Wayne. Godly men should have wisdom, and should always be willing to bend their back toward the task. They don't need to have the same mannerisms as a woman, particularly when it comes to the way they carry themselves, nor should they want to.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> ...



Don't ask and Don't Tell.

Let me interject something here. Not all men love football or Hunting or the Civil War. I know some men who are just good ole theologians. You know, they wear birth control glasses made in the 50's and smoke a pipe and wear sweaters and loafers. They are good fathers. I aint sure about being good lovers but you know what I mean. Some are a little soft spoken but not like the guys imitating gays. There is a difference. I aint sure about them. Why would you want anyone to wonder about you. I don't think God does.

What is a man suppose to look like. 

Come on, It is almost Turkey season. Are you all getting ready? Bass fishing and Nascar will be returning soon also. Let's be Men and have some fun. I am going to.


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## ReformedWretch (Jan 21, 2005)

NASCAR is on Sundays though!


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 21, 2005)

pastorway...points out what I was gonna say. There are so many boys growing up with only hard headed mommas...they either turn dangerously aggressive or totally wimped to avoid conflict. Or their fathers are wimped to avoid conflict with momma. Also the schools are all feminized. No wonder women like movies like Braveheart and Last of the Mohicans...
Though at the same time women like feminin guys because they "understand me" or are "sweet" or aren't scarey. I think a man can be a man and understanding, sweet, and gentle...but still braveheart! lol


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## Scot (Jan 21, 2005)

My Avatar is manly and no, he's not wearing a skirt!


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 21, 2005)

Uhhhmmmm Pastor Way....

while malakos does mean 'soft', it's used metaphorically in the NT to refer to one who submits himself to homosexual activity. I don't think it has as much to do with (for example) a person who may have some 'effiminate' characteristics to him, but may be straight as an arrow.

Teaching high school, I see all types of kids. One of my kids noted about another kid a few days ago (I overheard the convo):

*Student A*: Student B, you know.... your voice a bit high and you have some effiminate charachteristics about you...

*Student B*: I do ?

*Student A*: Yes. But we all know you're straight. Now some of these so-called 'thugs' running around here tryin' to act 'hard' (macho) are setting my 'gaydar' off all day......

Student B's father is pretty 'manly'. He's fluent in about 5 languages, a few martial arts... and probably some more stuff. He's got mom and dad at home.

Just an observation from the front lines.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> NASCAR is on Sundays though!



OOPs! I mean the reruns on Speed. Yea, that's what I mean.


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## Augusta (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scot_
> My Avatar is manly and no, he's not wearing a skirt!



Nobody will say anything about the skirt with him holding that big sword.


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## matthew11v25 (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Augusta_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Scot_
> ...



"A woman shall not wear man's clothing, nor shall a man put on a woman's clothing; for whoever does these things is an abomination to the LORD your God." (Deuteronomy 22:5)

just kidding.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by turmeric_
> ...



heh heh


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scot_
> My Avatar is manly and no, he's not wearing a skirt!



If anybody called Mel Gibson/Braveheart a sissy he might get kilt!


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by matthew11v25_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Augusta_
> ...



A kilt doesn't fall under that category thank you...it was practical and doubled as a blanket I believe...when long enough back when they actually WRAPPED the thing.

BTW, nice legs you got there!


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## govols (Jan 21, 2005)

Yeah, but talk about a bad up draft.

And which bathroom do you use when they just have those pictures on the bathroom doors. One with a figure with pants on and one with a figure with a skirt on?

Decisions, decisions.


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## Scot (Jan 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> BTW, nice legs you got there!



I hope you realize that's not really me. My legs are much nicer than that!


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## Craig (Jan 21, 2005)

Hmmmm...would it be very _malakos_ to sing show tunes from Rent continuously *knees crossed, wrist bent, high pitched gasp* Not that I'm worried or anything.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 21, 2005)

Has anyone ever seen the car commercial with the Shania Twain song, "Man, I Feel Like a Woman"?

Here is a description. It cracks me up. 




> I saw a commercial tonight for the new Chevy Colorado Crew Cab. A half dozen guys are plowing through some rugged terrain in their manly Crew Cab and one guy in the back is signing Shania Twain´s "œMan I Feel Like A Woman" "” loudly. The rest of the guys cringe as he belts out lines like "œthe best thing about being a woman is the prerogative to have a little fun" "” but no one is changing the radio station.


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 21, 2005)

Now that's just weird. Reminds me of Cash's "A Boy Named Sue."


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## Scot (Jan 21, 2005)

I had a person call my office a couple months ago for an appointment. The peron's name was "alex". On the phone, I assumed this person was a women. When the person came to the office, it was a man. Anyway, halfway through the consultation, I discovered this person was taking testosterone. I asked him why and he/she said he/she was transgender! 

On some of my question sheets, there are questions specifically for females like "Have you ever been on birth control pills?", "Have you given birth to two or more children?", etc. This man (appeared like one anyway) answered "yes" to these questions. I was freaked out.


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## SmokingFlax (Jan 21, 2005)

Zoiks! (as Shaggy would say)...


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 21, 2005)

I really like that Chevy commercial by the way...don't ask me why...it kinda bugged me up...may have been more me laughing at hubby's reaction to it though...it drove him nuts!


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## turmeric (Jan 22, 2005)

Okay, here's my bad joke du jour!

It seems that a baby was born while it's mom & dad were escaping the tsunamis. They all survived BTW. They got to a doctor, he completed the delivery. It was a boy. The doctor named him Tsunami. Now it turns out that tsunami is a feminine word in that language...so...he's a boy named Tsu! (I hate to admit it, but I didn't make that up, my friend did)
I can hear it now; You got anything to say to me? Huh? Want me to rock your world?


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## ChristianasJourney (Jan 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scot_
> I had a person call my office a couple months ago for an appointment. ..... . I was freaked out.



That's what you get for showing up for work in a kilt! 

But hey, I'm with you. 

[Edited on 22-1-2005 by ChristianasJourney]


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scot_
> I had a person call my office a couple months ago for an appointment. The peron's name was "alex". On the phone, I assumed this person was a women. When the person came to the office, it was a man. Anyway, halfway through the consultation, I discovered this person was taking testosterone. I asked him why and he/she said he/she was transgender!
> 
> On some of my question sheets, there are questions specifically for females like "Have you ever been on birth control pills?", "Have you given birth to two or more children?", etc. This man (appeared like one anyway) answered "yes" to these questions. I was freaked out.



Now that is just Freaky. 

I worked for a Big International Company for many years. I was in the Service end of things. So I had to deal with customers (That Are Not Always Right) who needed supplies also. In walked this girl with a 5 o'clock shadow at 9:00 am. She weren't that pretty either. I tried not to stare but couldn't figure out if she was a she. Well as time went on, I found out he was taking hormones to get ready to turn into a she. I was freaked out for days. I didn't know how to witness to this person. It really bothered me.

[Edited on 1-22-2005 by puritancovenanter]


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## Augusta (Jan 22, 2005)

My husband works at microsoft and he has to deal with a guy/girl at work. All of our insurance paper work always states "spouse or same sex partner."


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## Ivan (Jan 22, 2005)

Such a world we live in, such a world!


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## FrozenChosen (Jan 22, 2005)

Well, I would say without RUF I would be a lot less manly. We always hear of girls getting together and watching movies, so we decided to do something about it. The male intern came up with the idea of having a manly night once a semester. Any more frequent and it would begin to lose some manly properties, because frankly guys don't care that much.

For some, the afternoon began with skeet shooting. We met at the intern's house and left for Outback steakhouse. The few people that were foolish enough to get salads with there meal were obviously made fun of. Steaks were encouraged. One poor guy didn't finish his hamburger, and he got it bad.

Then we went to Best Buy to look in the action adventure DVD section, and then we watched _Sniper at someone's house. Yep, it was pretty manly.

This semester we are going to buy an old microwave and each person will be allowed to bring 3 items to explode in it. That should be fun._


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## Scot (Jan 22, 2005)

> That's what you get for showing up for work in a kilt!


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by puritancovenanter_
> ...



So what did you both do ? Was there an opportunity for dialogue later on and you passed it up ?

[Edited on 22-1-2005 by OS_X]


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## Scot (Jan 22, 2005)

In my case, the person came to me for health advice and that's all that I addressed. If he/she ever comes back and I get to know them better, the oppurtunity may present itself for me to witness.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 22, 2005)

I unfortunately didn't get to see the thing again. What desperation someone must feel to want to go through something like that.


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## SmokingFlax (Jan 22, 2005)

What I want to know is...Why is this kind of thing (sex change) even legal?


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## Ivan (Jan 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by SmokingFlax_
> What I want to know is...Why is this kind of thing (sex change) even legal?



Because we live in an utterly sinful world.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Has anyone ever seen the car commercial with the Shania Twain song, \"Man, I Feel Like a Woman\"?
> 
> Here is a description. It cracks me up.
> ...



[video=youtube;iZIbwMo0lnU]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZIbwMo0lnU[/video] is a video of the commercial.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 19, 2006)

Surprised to see this thread pop back up! Since the time I made the thread my wifes cousin has confessed to my mother inlaw that he has homosexual desires and fights temptation all the time!

Apparently I did sense something......


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## Richard King (Sep 20, 2006)

You can usually trust your spidey senses on that stuff. Besides if you are wrong they can hit you with their purse. Take it like a man!


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 20, 2006)




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## jaybird0827 (Sep 20, 2006)

*Walk Like a Man!*



Oh how you tried to cut me down to size
Telling dirty lies to my friends
But my own father said give her up don't bother
The world isn't coming to an end

(he said just) Walk like a man
Talk like a man
Walk like a man my son
No woman's worth
Crawling on the earth
Just walk like a man my son

Good-bye baby I dont mean maybe
I'm gonna get along somehow
Soon you'll be cryin on account of all your lyin
Oh yeah just look who's laughing now

(I'm gonna) walk like a man
Fast as I can
Walk like a man from you
I'll tell the world to forget about it girl
And walk like a man from you

-- Frankie Valli


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