# Modern Reformation Articles - Eastern Orthodoxy



## Ask Mr. Religion (Feb 27, 2018)

Some free articles for the next two weeks from the normally paywalled folks at _Modern Rreformation_:

https://www.whitehorseinn.org/artic...n-the-reformed-and-eastern-orthodox-churches/

https://www.whitehorseinn.org/article/beware-the-convert/ {<--Perry Robinson (Energetic Procession) takes a look at the _Bible Answer Man_'s recent passage to Constantinople}

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## Post Tenebras (Feb 28, 2018)

I haven't read Modern Reformation in several years. I didn't realize they had Eastern Orthodox contributors.


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## Contra_Mundum (Feb 28, 2018)

I wouldn't say they have regular contributions from EO. They have had a section where they invite an outside perspective (could be a liberal, or a EO, etc.) to make a comment. It's obvious that this is distinct from the WHI stance.

In the case of PerryR., he's got a unique (if EO) perspective, since he was once a generic evangelical, then some sort of reformed, finally settling in EO. And, he was a researcher for the BAM himself, HankH.

So, he is uniquely qualified to criticize both HankH. and the leaders of his own communion over their celebrity-crush on this convertski. It's all the worse for that, to PerryR. the BAM is not really knowledgeable either of his past or present theological affiliations. He's just a talkshow host; he has a nice radio voice.

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## Post Tenebras (Feb 28, 2018)

That's a serious charge against Hank Hanegraaff--that he is "not really knowledgeable of his past or present theological affiliations." I generally find him extremely knowledgeable (although not without error). 

I must be a bad(ly) Reformed Christian as I have much respect for both Hank Hanegraaff and Steve Gregg.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Post Tenebras said:


> That's a serious charge against Hank Hanegraaff--that he is "not really knowledgeable of his past or present theological affiliations." I generally find him extremely knowledgeable (although not without error).
> 
> I must be a bad(ly) Reformed Christian as I have much respect for both Hank Hanegraaff and Steve Gregg.



Numerous Lutherans and EO have challenged Hank on what he means by justification. He cannot articulate the EO view, despite having moved tot hat position. He keeps saying faith alone is never alone (standard Prot gloss), but that is *not* what EO means.

I can't post them now, but Perry's recent blog articles on Hankadox are well worth your time.

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## Contra_Mundum (Feb 28, 2018)

Post Tenebras said:


> That's a serious charge against Hank Hanegraaff--that he is "not really knowledgeable of his past or present theological affiliations." I generally find him extremely knowledgeable (although not without error).


A quote from P.R.'s article:


> On his April 10, 2017, _Bible Answer Man_ (BAM) show he remarked, “I am now a member of an Orthodox Church, but nothing has changed in my faith….I believe what I have always believed, as codified in the Nicene Creed, and as championed by mere Christianity.” And on April 11, “Look, my views have been codified in twenty books, and my views have not changed.” In these and other comments since his conversion, he appears to be communicating the idea that his conversion is not a big deal or a life-altering decision. He has just changed churches and not theology, or if he did, he just changed out “secondary” or “nonessential” doctrines. He maintains “mere Christianity” along the lines of C. S. Lewis.
> 
> None of this is intellectually honest. All of the books that bear his name were written when he was Protestant. It is not possible on Protestant or Orthodox grounds that his views haven’t changed.



Note the underlined text (my emphasis). The first is not-quite a claim to authorship. The second is a carefully worded, oblique statement made by someone "who has been there" in a position to know the truth. Namely, that HH's books are ghostwritten.

In an of itself, this is an honored tradition common to busy people who hire others to perform menial tasks. However, this service can also be used to mask a fundamental gap, between popularizing and deep acquaintance. PR's knowing observation is that recent events/gaffes in HH's life are not exceptional, but a longstanding trend.

I'm not going to opine any further. I don't doubt that the BAM broadcast (or SG's) has been of felt-benefit to many people.

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## Bill The Baptist (Feb 28, 2018)

Contra_Mundum said:


> In an of itself, this is an honored tradition common to busy people who hire others to perform menial tasks. However, this service can also be used to mask a fundamental gap, between popularizing and deep acquaintance. PR's knowing observation is that recent events/gaffes in HH's life are not exceptional, but a longstanding trend.
> .



Someone, who is in favor of female pastors, just recently made an accusation on social media that many of the books for sale at the Shepherds Conference, and purportedly written by men, were actually ghost written by women. She was pointing out what she felt was the irony of this, not to mention the dishonesty. In my opinion, if you don’t have the time or ability to write a book yourself, then you shouldn’t have your name on books.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Feb 28, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Numerous Lutherans and EO have challenged Hank on what he means by justification. He cannot articulate the EO view, despite having moved tot hat position. He keeps saying faith alone is never alone (standard Prot gloss), but that is *not* what EO means.
> 
> I can't post them now, but Perry's recent blog articles on Hankadox are well worth your time.


If I recall correctly, Perry's former association with BAM organization resulted in some charges of financial improprieties and other matters, all he documented from his position in his blog, including a lengthy entry of a conversation with HankH. Perry's issues go far beyond mere doctrinal issues (which are pointedly correct), so I have to wonder if these other issues are creeping into his long-running disagreements with HankH.

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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> If I recall correctly, Perry's former association with BAM organization resulted in some charges of financial improprieties and other matters, all he documented from his position in his blog, including a lengthy entry of a conversation with HankH. Perry's issues go far beyond mere doctrinal issues (which are pointedly correct), so I have to wonder if these other issues are creeping into his long-running disagreements with HankH.



They are, and these financial improprieties have also been documented by sources like LA Times. His blog post on his meeting with HH is revealing.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Someone, who is in favor of female pastors, just recently made an accusation on social media that many of the books for sale at the Shepherds Conference, and purportedly written by men, were actually ghost written by women. She was pointing out what she felt was the irony of this, not to mention the dishonesty. In my opinion, if you don’t have the time or ability to write a book yourself, then you shouldn’t have your name on books.



It's probably accurate. More than likely, as Macarthur has intimated elsewhere, they are just sermons pasted together in a book. So in Macarthur's case, the material is his but the putting it in a book isn't.


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## Post Tenebras (Feb 28, 2018)

Contra_Mundum said:


> A quote from P.R.'s article:
> 
> Note the underlined text (my emphasis). The first is not-quite a claim to authorship. The second is a carefully worded, oblique statement made by someone "who has been there" in a position to know the truth. Namely, that HH's books are ghostwritten.
> .



I don't see anything in the article supporting the assertion that Hanegraaff's books were ghostwritten. And, even if they were, that would not prove that he is not knowledgeable regarding their content. Furthermore, Perry Robinson states that it's been approximately a quarter-century since he worked with Hannegraaff at CRI. Hanegraaff's body of work has certainly blossomed since then. 

Bottom line, there has been absolutely no evidence presented for the accusations of ghostwriting and ignorance.


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## Dachaser (Feb 28, 2018)

Post Tenebras said:


> I don't see anything in the article supporting the assertion that Hanegraaff's books were ghostwritten. And, even if they were, that would not prove that he is not knowledgeable regarding their content. Furthermore, Perry Robinson states that it's been approximately a quarter-century since he worked with Hannegraaff at CRI. Hanegraaff's body of work has certainly blossomed since then.
> 
> Bottom line, there has been absolutely no evidence presented for the accusations of ghostwriting and ignorance.


The article listed though did seem to have the author questioning if hank is now to be really considered as being Eastern Orthodox, as hank still seems to be bringing in too much of his formal theology to suit the eastern faithful.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Post Tenebras said:


> Bottom line, there has been absolutely no evidence presented for the accusations of ghostwriting and ignorance.



True on the ghostwriting claim, but as has been documented numerous times from his radio show, he has no idea what EO teaches on justification and sola scriptura.

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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> The article listed though did seem to have the author questioning if hank is now to be really considered as being Eastern Orthodox, as hank still seems to be bringing in too much of his formal theology to suit the eastern faithful.



HH is formally in the EO communion, but he doesn't understand what EO believe on key points. He lacks the EO 'phronema' as the fathers would put it.


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## Dachaser (Feb 28, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> HH is formally in the EO communion, but he doesn't understand what EO believe on key points. He lacks the EO 'phronema' as the fathers would put it.


I do not know much of theology of the eastern church, but based upon what I have read, I do find it hard to reconcile as being a real Christian church.


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## Bill The Baptist (Feb 28, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> HH is formally in the EO communion, but he doesn't understand what EO believe on key points. He lacks the EO 'phronema' as the fathers would put it.



I would venture that a good percentage of EOs don’t truly understand EO theology. The problem with HH, as was pointed out in the article, is that his job is to be an “expert” on Christianity, and now that he is EO, he is expected to be an expert on this as well. This is unrealistic, and perhaps unfair, but to be honest he probably should have stepped down from his radio show in light of his conversion.

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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Bill The Baptist said:


> I would venture that a good percentage of EOs don’t truly understand EO theology. The problem with HH, as was pointed out in the article, is that his job is to be an “expert” on Christianity, and now that he is EO, he is expected to be an expert on this as well. This is unrealistic, and perhaps unfair, but to be honest he probably should have stepped down from his radio show in light of his conversion.



Sure, and that is why many EO priests will tell converts to be quiet for a year. When I was looking into EO I realized it wasn't simply learning a few points of doctrine. Your mindset changes, and that takes a while (and that's probably true of most traditions).


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2018)

Dachaser said:


> I do not know much of theology of the eastern church, but based upon what I have read, I do find it hard to reconcile as being a real Christian church.



Tell that to Athanasius or John of Damascus. I have real problems with EO, but I would hate to make the criteria for real church to be such that I exclude Athanasius. That's why the WCF spoke of degrees of purity. And this comes back to covenant and whether church = elect

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## RBachman (Mar 1, 2018)

Oh how I miss Walter Martin, the real Bible Answer Man.
The only useful thing HH did for me was his memory booklets. I understand most of this was taken from others, but his stuff really helped me in my Bible memorization. So hats off to Hank for that. 
As I stated in another post: there are so many solid teachers, why waste time on apostates, confused Christians, and pilgrims searching and wandering from one theology to another even if they have a microphone, books and fame. 
I have adopted the WCF and the catechisms. I suspect, at 60 years old, I will not finish even a cursory study and implementation of these truths before my graduation. Why seek other ones? Focus on your Confession and the Puritans. 
As for EO, I don't have any desire to learn more. Begone incense, chants, and monks! Serve Christ and him alone. Let Him fill your mind.
One lovely poster put up a link to Martin Lloyd-Jones trust Thank you. Hundreds of marvelous godly sermons - years of listening at the Bible being preached - all for free. 
Why waste time on the likes of Piper, HH, and other 'mixed clay and iron'?

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## Dachaser (Mar 2, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Tell that to Athanasius or John of Damascus. I have real problems with EO, but I would hate to make the criteria for real church to be such that I exclude Athanasius. That's why the WCF spoke of degrees of purity. And this comes back to covenant and whether church = elect


Based upon my limited understanding of what the Eastern Church teaches concerning salvation, would see some as being saved in it due to the grace of God, but their theology would not be really Biblical, in the same fashion their are Catholics saved, despite their wrong theology now


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