# The importance of having the "right" Gospel



## JBaldwin (Jun 2, 2009)

My oldest child is going through a terrible struggle with her faith and has openly rejected christianity (she says) because of some of the hurt caused her by "reformed" believers, and the hurt is very real. After openly giving her heart to the Lord, she has now openly rejected Christ. 

We have been praying for her a lot, and many of you have prayed and still do pray for her, and I deepely appreciate that. We are seeing God work. 

The reason for this post is not talk about my daughter but to use an example of what has been going on with her and to get your thoughts on how to accurately present Christ to the lost, as well as thoughts on how wrong theology (in regard to the Gospel) can drive people away from Christ. 

To continue with my daughter, she recently has become friends with some Baptist Christians who really care about her relationship with the Lord, almost to a fault. 

My daughter is very discerning, and last evening she pointed out to me that she was beginning to think that her friends were only her friends because they wanted her to convert to Christianity. My response was that perhaps they really liked her, and it was because they liked her that they wanted her to know Christ. 

Why then, she asked me, do they always try to get me to convert? Why can't they just accept me for who I am? 

On the other hand, most of the reformed christian teens she knows tend to alienate her, as do their parents, because of my daughter's struggles with her faith. The only people who have opened their arms to her with very little hesitation are the few teens and the adults in our church. 

I told my daughter that the reason her Baptist friends are so pushy is because they believe that somehow they have the power to change her heart by changing her mind. That is why they feel they have to constantly pressure her to change her mind about Christ. She admitted that the presbyterian teens and parents she knows are probably afraid that she will "poison" their children. 

So on the one hand, you have people pushing my daughter away (unwittingly) because they don't want her to go to hell, on the other, you have christians pushing her away because they are afraid of being "tainted". While fear is at the core of both groups, I am inclined to think that wrong theology has something to do with it. Any thoughts?


----------



## PresbyDane (Jun 2, 2009)

I really do not know but if your daughter has openly denied Christ I do not think it would matter what any christians would say or do towards her, her heart will still be hardend. I am really sorry to hear this and will pray for her and for you.


----------



## MrMerlin777 (Jun 2, 2009)




----------



## ww (Jun 2, 2009)

How old is your daughter? 

Sounds like she has a root of bitterness which has sprung up in her from past hurts and it is only through Prayers and God's Grace that she will be able to look to her baptism and be reminded of God's Covenant Promises. As far as the Arminian Baptist it is through persuasion they hope to win her and the Reformed seem to be acting like Fundamentalist in separating from her. Unless she has been excommunicated for her unbelief it is almost better for her friends to treat her with a business as usual approach not giving her an uneccessary focus because of her unbelief. She may be unwittingly garnering such attention and it is best not to give it to her. She may use it as an excuse to purposely separate herself from those friends and their example and testmony is what she needs right now. Just a few thoughts from a layman's perspective. 

Can't imagine how this must grieve you and will pray for her to return to Christ speedily.


----------



## Archlute (Jun 2, 2009)

The problem is not her baptist friends, nor her presbyterian antagonists, for friends of whatever stripe, and antagonists whether within or without the walls of the church will always be there, the problem is her point of focus.

Most people will, at some point in their Christian walk, be deeply hurt, disappointed, and even betrayed by those in the church, and that even from among her leadership. At those difficult times, if your perception of the reality of Christ and his love for you is grounded in your relationships with other Christians, and not in the truth and power of Christ himself, then your faith will assuredly falter. 

Sometimes this happens in Reformed churches when we become members with the false notion that we have now arrived at churches so true that we will never face the silliness or grief that we had left behind when we came into them from other evangelical bodies. When we do that we lower our guard against the schemes of Satan who has no less trouble stirring up trouble in Reformed congregations as he does any other. Remember that the seven churches of John's Apocalypse were neither Catholic, nor Reformed, nor Anabaptist - they were all on the same footing as Apostolic, and yet even they had been ruined in many ways by the work of Satan and the flesh.

Console your daughter. Let her know that she should be able free to acknowledge the sins of the church, and not feel as if she has to cover for them in order to keep the PCA, OPC, etc looking pristine for the sake of image. Christ had a name for that sort of wrongful desire - he called it white washing the tombs...

At the same time, encourage her to complain in her grief to God, as did Job who was so hurt both by his confusing circumstances, as well as by (if we can look at this anachronistically) "Christian men of high standing in the community". Have her go back and read the words of Christ in the Gospels, especially those in which he offers comfort to sinners and to those rejected by the church (think, the blind man who was cast out of the church just because he was healed and rejoiced in Christ, in John 9), and to rest her love and faith in the Christ who comforts even those wrongfully rejected by the Church as being his own dear brothers and sisters. 

I do not believe that this situation is as dire as it may seem to you right now, she just needs some space and time away from the hurt, and most importantly a right focus for her faith. When we place our hopes in the faithfulness of the Church (that great institution made up of great sinners) our faith will be bound to falter.

I will be praying for her even now. Go to her with this comfort.


----------



## awretchsavedbygrace (Jun 2, 2009)

I will pray for your daughter.


----------



## Pergamum (Jun 2, 2009)

I will pray for your daughter.

I know many Christians love God and want everyone else to love God too. 

I also know that some Christians feel a duty to target "unbelievers" and try to get them to convert. I would hope that any efforts on the part of her baptist friends are out of love and not out of some sort of "pass out a tract or preach to someone and put a feather on your cap" theology.

I also know that one chief reason that people reject Christ is other Christians, and this is a humble reminder for me always to try to be a blessing to others lest someone be offended at Christ due to my poor presentation of who Christ is.


----------



## JBaldwin (Jun 2, 2009)

Thanks so much everyone for your prayers and comments. Only on the PB could someone use an example from their personal life and get so many people respond with prayer! Ya'll are great.

To continue my thoughts: 

Yesterday in Sunday School an elder made this comment, "Evangelism in the reformed faith happens in families." In light of my other comments, what approach does the reformed church take toward evangelism, and was this elder correct?


----------



## Montanablue (Jun 2, 2009)

I have been very hurt by "Christians" before (when I was questioning my faith) and it was very hard for me to reconcile my belief in Christ's love with the way followers were treating me. I never denied God - I was just asking hard questions and struggling with things that I was afraid were contradictions - but it was still a very rough period in my life, and so I think I can identify with your daughter a bit. She and your family will most definitely be in my prayers. 

I do think that the root of the problem is bad theology, as you said. Even as reformed Christians I think we can forget that God is responsible for changing the heart. When I was in a non-reformed church, there seemed to be a lot of pressure for people to try to change hearts. I actually heard some people say (not from the pulpit, but members of the congregation) that a person died without being saved that their believing friends and family members were held the responsibility for the location of that person's soul.  Obviously, only God holds power over people's souls. 

Its harder for me pinpoint the theological reasons that would lead reformed people to draw away from her. I think you're right - it is fear - but I'm not sure what people would be afraid of. if God guards his elect (and we know he does) , than we don't need to fear being "poisoned" or drawn away from him. I could perhaps understand if your daughter was spewing heresy and abusing Christians, but it sounds as though she is simply harboring doubts and questioning faith, yes? I'm saddened that her reformed friends seem to have abandoned her. I know that in my situation a loving and honest conversation with my Christian friends would have done WORLDS of good for my doubts and questions.


----------



## christiana (Jun 2, 2009)

Three of my adult children no longer attend church after having lived as christian for years and reportedly claim they were hurt or disappointed by others at church. This is very painful and I pray for them, that our Lord will reclaim them as His own! Sadly, we cannot 'save' our children but after all our efforts to provide biblical influence they must come know God themselves and humble themselves before Him in repentance. I pray for mine and also for the children of others who are leaving the church, not realizing they leave not the ones who have caused them hurt but they leave our Lord! Mine appear to think they can live as 'independent' christians. No, the church is a body in need of all its parts, united together in Him in faith and belief, forgiving one another!


----------



## JBaldwin (Jun 2, 2009)

> Its harder for me pinpoint the theological reasons that would lead reformed people to draw away from her. I think you're right - it is fear - but I'm not sure what people would be afraid of. if God guards his elect (and we know he does) , than we don't need to fear being "poisoned" or drawn away from him. I could perhaps understand if your daughter was spewing heresy and abusing Christians, but it sounds as though she is simply harboring doubts and questioning faith, yes? I'm saddened that her reformed friends seem to have abandoned her. I know that in my situation a loving and honest conversation with my Christian friends would have done WORLDS of good for my doubts and questions.



Yes, my daughter is questioning her faith, but she is also turning towards friends who are leading her away from Christ and the church. While she is open with me about her beliefs, she is very respectful of her former reformed friends. 

Thanks for your words of encouragement.


----------



## Pergamum (Jun 2, 2009)

JBaldwin said:


> Thanks so much everyone for your prayers and comments. Only on the PB could someone use an example from their personal life and get so many people respond with prayer! Ya'll are great.
> 
> To continue my thoughts:
> 
> Yesterday in Sunday School an elder made this comment, "Evangelism in the reformed faith happens in families." In light of my other comments, what approach does the reformed church take toward evangelism, and was this elder correct?



This elder needs to be reminded that evangelism DOES NOT ONLY happen in families. However, that elder IS partially correct.

-----Added 6/2/2009 at 09:45:09 EST-----



Montanablue said:


> I have been very hurt by "Christians" before (when I was questioning my faith) and it was very hard for me to reconcile my belief in Christ's love with the way followers were treating me. I never denied God - I was just asking hard questions and struggling with things that I was afraid were contradictions - but it was still a very rough period in my life, and so I think I can identify with your daughter a bit. She and your family will most definitely be in my prayers.
> 
> I do think that the root of the problem is bad theology, as you said. Even as reformed Christians I think we can forget that God is responsible for changing the heart. When I was in a non-reformed church, there seemed to be a lot of pressure for people to try to change hearts. I actually heard some people say (not from the pulpit, but members of the congregation) that a person died without being saved that their believing friends and family members were held the responsibility for the location of that person's soul.  Obviously, only God holds power over people's souls.
> 
> Its harder for me pinpoint the theological reasons that would lead reformed people to draw away from her. I think you're right - it is fear - but I'm not sure what people would be afraid of. if God guards his elect (and we know he does) , than we don't need to fear being "poisoned" or drawn away from him. I could perhaps understand if your daughter was spewing heresy and abusing Christians, but it sounds as though she is simply harboring doubts and questioning faith, yes? I'm saddened that her reformed friends seem to have abandoned her. I know that in my situation a loving and honest conversation with my Christian friends would have done WORLDS of good for my doubts and questions.



The time in my life that I most questioned my faith was when I was closest to rigid Fundies. 

The times in which I most embraced my faith was when I was in the vast minority and I saw other belief systems in the majority.


----------



## Montanablue (Jun 2, 2009)

> The time in my life that I most questioned my faith was when I was closest to rigid Fundies.
> 
> The times in which I most embraced my faith was when I was in the vast minority and I saw other belief systems in the majority.



I have had a very similar experience. I actually think its not an uncommon one for many reformed Christians.


----------



## calgal (Jun 2, 2009)

Unfortunately too many Christians DO shoot their wounded.


----------



## A.J. (Jun 2, 2009)

for your daughter. And thanks for sharing.


----------



## Zenas (Jun 3, 2009)

Tell your daughter she's my friend. I have friends who are atheists, agnostics, even a pagan. All of them need Christ, just like me.


----------



## Calvinist Cowboy (Jun 3, 2009)

praying for her and you.


----------



## jogri17 (Jun 3, 2009)

I know this may sound weird but if she would like to talk to me online she may. I have had similiar struggles and have been hurt my both evangelicals and reformed persons. I wouldn't post the struggles specifically but you are free to give her my contact info available on my profile and I would be happy to msn, aim, skype text, or facebook chat with her. Just wanna offer any help I can.


----------



## Tim (Jun 3, 2009)

Brother, it's probably not a good idea for a grown man to engage in one-on-one internet communication with a young female.


----------



## christiana (Jun 3, 2009)

> Yesterday in Sunday School an elder made this comment, "Evangelism in the reformed faith happens in families." In light of my other comments, what approach does the reformed church take toward evangelism, and was this elder correct?



I would say it happens in families but certainly is not limited to families as we are all to share the gospel with others, whenever and wherever there is opportunity. We are the means He uses to make the gospel known in the world. We are ambassadors for Christ!


----------



## Der Pilger (Jun 4, 2009)

First of all, let me say that you have my sympathy. It is never pleasant to see people reject Christ, especially those of our own kin. 



Archlute said:


> The problem is not her baptist friends, nor her presbyterian antagonists, for friends of whatever stripe, and antagonists whether within or without the walls of the church will always be there, the problem is her point of focus.



Quite true. The primary reason for anyone rejecting Christ is rooted in one's own heart more than external factors. John seems to say this very thing:
_And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. (John 3:19-21)​_I don't think this means, though, that these external factors (hypocrisy in the church, mistreatment by Christians, etc.) cannot aggravate unbelief by emboldening unbelievers to reject Christ. Scripture indicates otherwise: "*y this deed thou hast given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme" (2 Sam. 12:14). (I'm not saying that your oldest child is in fact an enemy of the Lord, just sharing a biblical principle.) If we put all the blame, however, on anything but the individual's sinful nature, we are in grave error and even more so if we lead that individual into thinking that the problem does not lie within him/her. We all need to know that, regardless of what harm professing Christians may have done, ultimately the responsibility for our unbelief rests on our own shoulders, not those of others.*


----------



## JBaldwin (Jun 4, 2009)

I see that I have not chosen my words well in expressing what has gone in with my daughter at the church. While she blames the church, I don't. We are all sinners and the case of my daughter, I think with the exception of one person, no one has intentionally tried to drive her away. 

To restate the question. Can a wrong view of the Gospel actually drive a person away from Christ rather than drawing them to Christ? In this case, and in similar cases where I've seen good intention, the good intentions and bad theology have actually alienated the lost. 

I can remember standing in a shopping mall years ago with a handful of tracks trying to convince every person that walked by that they had to come church and get saved--right now. I wondered why no one listened, and thought I was being persecuted when people mocked me. While this is true (now is accepted time, now is the day of salvation), that approach tends to make people run the other way. 

Last night, my daughter again went to church and listened to a sermon by a youth pastor who was preaching perfectionism. She said to me, "the man is a fake. The other youth pastor seems to be a real Christian, but this man is telling me that we should we perfect when it's obvious he's not perfect."


----------



## Spinningplates2 (Jun 4, 2009)

I have four chilrdern and two are frown. We also let them go to non-reformed youth groups because of the small size of our church. 

This has worked for me, I tell them that the non-reformed are our brothers and sisters in the Lord BUT if they want to debate thelolgy with me fine but my children are not expected to defend our faith alone. I constantly stress the Biblical proof for our doctrines and teach my childern the errors of Rapture centric theology. This worked for me only because I am always stressing not only what we think and believe bot show my children what they can expect to hear in dis-pen youth groups.

Your daughter needs confidence in your faith through proof of what you believe. God Bless and we will be praying for you.


----------



## Carolyn (Jun 4, 2009)

We have older children and have seen the "tainting" fear crop up many times. It's sort of odd in a way. Some of the families who have been the most concerned with "tainting" have had children who know how to keep up the image but are leading double lives or struggling with hardheartedness and superiority.

I will pray for your daughter to be reached and renewed by the Holy Spirit, despite enthusiastic Baptists and condemning/fearful Reformed-types. I will pray for you as well. This is so difficult to experience with a beloved child.


----------



## Hadassah (Jun 4, 2009)

I will pray for you and your daughter. From what I´ve read, it sounds a lot like my sister you are discribing. She don´t want to be a charity case. -and that is how she fell in the youthgroup. "Let´s save the pagan". Now she has turned to non-christian friends, and we´ve tried with love and order, but none of it works. She just backs out. So, all thats left is praying. And I´ll keep praying!


----------



## moral necessity (Jun 4, 2009)

JBaldwin said:


> To restate the question. Can a wrong view of the Gospel actually drive a person away from Christ rather than drawing them to Christ? In this case, and in similar cases where I've seen good intention, the good intentions and bad theology have actually alienated the lost.
> 
> I can remember standing in a shopping mall years ago with a handful of tracks trying to convince every person that walked by that they had to come church and get saved--right now. I wondered why no one listened, and thought I was being persecuted when people mocked me. While this is true (now is accepted time, now is the day of salvation), that approach tends to make people run the other way.
> 
> Last night, my daughter again went to church and listened to a sermon by a youth pastor who was preaching perfectionism. She said to me, "the man is a fake. The other youth pastor seems to be a real Christian, but this man is telling me that we should we perfect when it's obvious he's not perfect."



I agree with what you're inquiring about. I think that a false or distorted gospel can be a hindrance to many coming to Christ. I say that with an asterisk, b/c, of course, God's sovereignty will never be thwarted. But, he works through means, and those means of a real and genuine conversion are through the truth of his word. A gospel of perfectionism will leave people discouraged and ready to quit, as it did for several of my friends. It will lead others to a fake christian walk, just to calm their conscience about their status with God. And, it will lead still others to live in a state of fear and anxiety all of their days, b/c they know the reality of the sin that lives inside of them. 

It is imperative that we get the gospel right, that we offer the hope to all of the wicked that, "if they will come to him, he will in no wise cast them out"; that he can justify the ungodly before the Father; that he is willing to claim their sins as his own, and allow them to claim his righteousness as their own. We must be neither any less nor any more restrictive than Christ is in our offer of the grace in the Gospel, in our offering of it to "whosoever will". We dare not put a stumbling block in the path of any who are desiring to come to Christ. I wonder how many christians will mourn later when it is revealed just how much they (and I) perhaps did. And yet, it is good to know that will will also rejoice, b/c Christ was able to even work that together for the furtherance of his glory, and the development of their faith.

So, yes....I agree with what you're getting at in your post. And, I am confident that God will use whatever corrupt gospel is presented to a person to get them eventually where they are meant to go. For some of his chosen, they must endure a long trial with such false gospels, b/c it will be a better path suited for their growth later on. For some, it will reveal a more clear picture of their hardness of heart towards God, of their stubborn will and enslavement to sin. It will cause some to venture down the paths of sin even deeper than before, and yet, when God allows this to happen to his children before he calls them to himself, it serves to display the miraculous power of God that is able to draw them back from such a miserable condition. When some, who are partway down the side of the pit, lose their footing and slide farther into it, it is only to display the wonderful grace and power of God so much more, that he is able to bring them back up again. He allows it to occur so that it is evident to them and many others that the entire rescue is only because of him. And, it creates a humility in those so rescued, and a greater trust in him to be their refuge and hope in all afflictions.


----------

