# New People at Church



## Scott Shahan (Dec 1, 2006)

What does your Church give to new people that are attending your church for the first time? How can we make the new person feel welcome. I asked the leadership of my church what we give to new people, and they give them a bag with information about the church and a little booklet or track. I was hoping that our church would have at least given them a bible to read. I am going to talk to them about this. I sometimes think that the new person comes to church and they are not even noticed by anyone. What do your churches do concerning this? 

Thanks,

Scott Shahan


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 1, 2006)

We have something like that but it isn't done on a weekly basis. The church that I am at has a hard time connecting with one another. The fellowship is weak. And since this is the case, the new person I fear really has a hard getting connected, or feeling apart of the church. Most I think feel disconnected.


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## BJClark (Dec 1, 2006)

Scott Shahan;



> What does your Church give to new people that are attending your church for the first time? This is a question that I have; How can we make the new person feel welcome. I asked the leadership of my church what we give to new people, and they give them a bag with information about the church and a little booklet or track. I was hoping that our church would have at least given them a bible to read. I am going to talk to them about this. I sometimes think that the new person comes to church and they are not even noticed by anyone. What do your churches do concerning this?



It depends, on if they fill out the visitors information or not. 

If they leave their name and address for someone in the church to contact them, they have a group that takes homemade cookies over to their house, with information about the church.


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 1, 2006)

BJClark said:


> Scott Shahan;
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What about the people that don't fill out the visitor information?


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## BJClark (Dec 1, 2006)

Scott Shahan




> What about the people that don't fill out the visitor information?



Well, there isn't really a whole lot you can do--but one of the other things we do is the Members wear name tags (unless of course you forget them) and most all the members have them, so it's easier to notice the visitors...those without the name tags...so you know to make a point to welcome them..


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 1, 2006)

At our Church the Elders go out of there way to approach new people, welcome them, ask them questions, make a real strong attempt to make them feel welcome. When I attended my church for the first time I was overwhelmed with how friendly and welcoming everyone was. I cou;dn't wait to go back!

I don't see why doing that is so difficult for so many churches.


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## bookslover (Dec 2, 2006)

Scott Shahan said:


> What about the people that don't fill out the visitor information?



Then they don't get any cookies...


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## Timothy William (Dec 2, 2006)

In my experience, the problems of an unwelcoming church, or of people who cannot fit in at a new church, are not usually about the first or second visits, when they are obviously new and someone will usually talk to them, but the fourth, fifth etc times that they come if they still haven't started making friends. Maybe it's just me, as I tend to be very shy in real life, but usually it gets harder not easier as the weeks go by. Perhaps churches need some way of tracking those who have been coming for a month or two to see if they are fitting in.


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 2, 2006)

I honestly believe that often churches get way too large. I think once a church has gotten over 100 members it should split and plant another church. Often fitting in at a small church is so much easier than a great big one.


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## alwaysreforming (Dec 2, 2006)

Yeah, Adam, at the church I go to, its so big that you could be going there for a year and not have ONE person know you.

So many people are wanting to attend services that they have to have them on Sat. night, all through Sunday, and then Mon night.

Even when you know people, you never know what service they might be attending that week.

I guess the new people have to take it upon themselves to get involved in a smaller class or group to get connected with someone.


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## Herald (Dec 2, 2006)

We ask visitors to come up to the pulpit and introduce themselves. We hand then a Greek N.T. and have them parse Romans 9. We finish with a 250 question test on theology.

Okay...seriously now...we have a fellowship meal after our morning worship service. We invite them to break bread with us. We also hand out a brochure about our church to all visitors and ask them to fill out a card so we can contact them. THEN we have them parse Greek!


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## BJClark (Dec 2, 2006)

Adam,



> I honestly believe that often churches get way too large. I think once a church has gotten over 100 members it should split and plant another church. Often fitting in at a small church is so much easier than a great big one.



I'm different in that respect, I love the larger churches, I love to socialize, and the more people to socialize with the better. And in that I have teens there are typically more teens at the larger churches, so they want to get involved with the youth activities. 

But we also have greeters at all the doors entering into the sanctuary, who greet everyone who comes in...so they are also the first line of noticing new people or people who visit and yet aren't members.


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 2, 2006)

Is there any biblical standard we can look for in regard to church size? I suspect there isn't but thought I would inquire to see if anyone knows. No offence to Bobbi or anyone, but I really think great big churches are a hinderance to fellowship and unintentionally promote "cliqs" within the body that so many can't stand.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 2, 2006)

houseparent said:


> Is there any biblical standard we can look for in regard to church size? I suspect there isn't but thought I would inquire to see if anyone knows. No offence to Bobbi or anyone, but I really think great big churches are a hinderance to fellowship and unintentionally promote "cliqs" within the body that so many can't stand.



I believe the formula is based upon logic and biblical inference; if the congregation is too large for the pastors and eldership to properly guide, direct and discipline, than the church will suffer. As well, if the church is too large, how does one _police_ the table? The table must be policed. If it is not, the sacraments are not being distributed according to the biblical mandate, the Church in question could cease being a Church and may become _a (c)hurch_.


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## Theoretical (Dec 2, 2006)

BJClark said:


> Adam,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Just for reference, I'm curious what people are defining as "big" for a church. My current PCA church has about 250 communicant members (and 90 non-communicant kids), and we have 12 elders. My parents church is a 13,000 + member UMC church, so my ideas of scale are a little off base. I say that because Town North is downright tiny compared to what I am used to addressing, and I love it.


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 2, 2006)

Your Church sounds big to me, but not too big. Over 200-250 members is where I personally would begin to feel a bit uncomfortable.

Your parents church seems insanely big to me. How do you really meet anyone? I once attended a Church with about 1500 members and you couldn't find friends during the service unless you planned to meet somewhere. It was crazy.



> if the congregation is too large for the pastors and eldership to properly guide, direct and discipline, than the church will suffer



I think this is the case for nearly all super sized churches that have members in the thousands. I really can't see membership in ONE buliding needing to be 1000 let alone several thousand!


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## Gregg (Dec 2, 2006)

Did somebody mention cookies?


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## Philip A (Dec 2, 2006)

In our church, it depends on what kind of people the visitors are. If they are between the ages of 35 and 45, married, middle class, with children, they will be welcomed. If they meet all the above criteria, plus they homeschool, they will have several invites for afternoon fellowship, and will be blissfully assimilated into the group within a few weeks. If they are older, they will be kindly ignored. If they are younger, people will push them out of the way so they can get to the other homeschoolers. If they are male, and are interested in theology, they will be looked upon with suspicion, as being too proud, too intellectual, and insubordinate. You know how young people are these days!

I have to , it's the only way to survive in the environment!


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 2, 2006)

I dunno, this is a hot button topic for me and I'm kind of surprised to see it getting so little attention.


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## toddpedlar (Dec 2, 2006)

houseparent said:


> I dunno, this is a hot button topic for me and I'm kind of surprised to see it getting so little attention.



I'm with you Adam. 200 is about as big as I'd ever want to be part of. Our congregation has about 80 members and a weekly attendance of about 110. I've never been part of a church much larger than this, and I can't imagine feeling "part of" such a congregation - perhaps a smaller chunk (cell, home group, whatever you want to call it) but not the whole... it's just too stinking big. 

With a sufficient number of elders, I suppose the congregation can have reasonable oversight - I think. Again, I've never been part of such a congregation, but I just can't imagine it. The primary problem, however, with a church of that size (in my opinion) is that a pastor will have a VERY hard time connecting with the flock in any meaningful way so that his sermons have any personal touch. One can learn a lot from having good, Bible based, otherwise generic sermons preached... but if there's no connection between the preacher and the hearers (as is basically guaranteed when membership gets to a certain size), then there is an extremely important, vital link that is lost. 

It's a hotbutton for me, too, Adam... but my time is limited


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## Philip A (Dec 2, 2006)

I think you're right Adam, it's a huge issue. We'd be fools to think that we've escaped consumerism just because we came out of evangelicalism. The fact of the matter is that we're part of a fragmented culture, and that is reflected in the way we structure our churches. We want people like us, who have the same interests and life circumstances as we do, so we can have someone to organize play dates for the kids with, or have them help up nail down the new baseboards in the kitchen. But people outside of our own subculture? Heaven forbid. Then we'd have to be exposed to different points of view than ours, we might find out that our own little way of living what we think is the "Christian life" might not be the only way, or even worse, might be a tad bit wrong. It's the same impulse that keeps us from reading books by people we disagree with.

I know that's not in the least bit comprehensive, but I know I've seen that a lot in churches, both as a recipient of it (as I mentioned above), and as a participant in it. Hostility or coldness to strangers isn't just unChristian, it's unhuman.

Or maybe I'm just ranting, and need a good drink . Red Stripe, it's beer. Hooray beer!


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## turmeric (Dec 2, 2006)

I've heard this kind of "cultural" thing described as a form of trusting in our own righteousness - which has _no_ place in church, in my opinion.

A friend of mine and I got "snubbed" rather pointedly in an "emerging" church we tried that was in our neighborhood. They said they just wanted to "love on" the people of the neighborhood. Apparently, they only wanted to "love on" the rich young people of the neighborhood. As it turned out, all's well that ends well.


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 3, 2006)

toddpedlar said:


> I'm with you Adam. 200 is about as big as I'd ever want to be part of. Our congregation has about 80 members and a weekly attendance of about 110. I've never been part of a church much larger than this, and I can't imagine feeling "part of" such a congregation - perhaps a smaller chunk (cell, home group, whatever you want to call it) but not the whole... it's just too stinking big.
> 
> With a sufficient number of elders, I suppose the congregation can have reasonable oversight - I think. Again, I've never been part of such a congregation, but I just can't imagine it. The primary problem, however, with a church of that size (in my opinion) is that a pastor will have a VERY hard time connecting with the flock in any meaningful way so that his sermons have any personal touch. One can learn a lot from having good, Bible based, otherwise generic sermons preached... but if there's no connection between the preacher and the hearers (as is basically guaranteed when membership gets to a certain size), then there is an extremely important, vital link that is lost.
> 
> It's a hotbutton for me, too, Adam... but my time is limited



WHEW!

Thanks, I needed that.


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## Theoretical (Dec 3, 2006)

houseparent said:


> Your Church sounds big to me, but not too big. Over 200-250 members is where I personally would begin to feel a bit uncomfortable.
> 
> Your parents church seems insanely big to me. How do you really meet anyone? I once attended a Church with about 1500 members and you couldn't find friends during the service unless you planned to meet somewhere. It was crazy.
> 
> ...


Oh, Adam, let there not be any doubt - there is absolutely NO pastoral oversight in my parents' Methodist church. It really is more of a social club with 7 services and 30 adult sunday schools that serve more as sub-churches than anything else. What's scary is that it has been 13,000 since the 1950s. Fortunately or unfortunately, my old church has planted a ton of new Methodist churches in Dallas, so its effective daughter membership is probably closer to 20,000-30,000 altogether in this region, as several of those churches have 1000-4000 members. Of course, how many of these folks are actually believers in the invisible Church is unknown, but I can't imagine being very high. 

The teachers and leaders in the Sunday Schools vary from lousy to a Perkins Seminary professor who I deeply respect as a vastly elder brother in the faith (even with serious inconsistency flaws).

I too have noticed that 250 does seem a bit big and slightly hard to get to know everyone, but it is managable - and now would be about the largest I really could stand in a church under ideal circumstances. 50-150 members does sound really intriguing.


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## BJClark (Dec 3, 2006)

Adam,

My church would be huge to you...as would a few of the previous churches I've been a member at.

I guess one of the things in our church that helps keep the pastors connected is the New Members Classes---They want to meet everyone who is interested in joining the church, so, they teach it, and get to meet everyone, and get to know them over time in the class.

Our New Members class is the same length of time as a Small group or Sunday School class. Sunday School, and Small Groups meet every Sunday for 6-8 weeks, so does our New Members class, and you go to that the same way you would the other. The second to the last week of the class they give everyone a Spiritual Gifts Inventory, that way everyone knows where their strengths are, and if they want to volunteer (which most do) they serve in an area they are most gifted, that they enjoy, and there is also less burnout, because the same people aren't always volunteering. They can take a break and join a small group or go to an Adult Sunday School class, because there are enough people helping in the childrens ministry.


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 3, 2006)

> The second to the last week of the class they give everyone a Spiritual Gifts Inventory, that way everyone knows where their strengths are, and if they want to volunteer (which most do) they serve in an area they are most gifted



Intresting Bobbi....I've not heard of a PCA church that does that.


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## BJClark (Dec 3, 2006)

> Intresting Bobbi....I've not heard of a PCA church that does that.



it's actually the only church I've ever been to that has done that, and the church keeps them in a file, and when/if the person joins the church, they sit down w/ one of the ladies in the office and they go over it along with various ministries the church has, and it's like..

Okay these are your gifts, these are your strengths, these are the areas God is still growing you...so based on your gifts, they could be used in these areas...say your gifted in Administration, and hate answering phones but yet love music but can't sing, well the Music Ministry has a need for people w/ a gift in Admin..so you could volunteer your gifts of admin with the music ministry. Or if you enjoy children but don't want to work directly w/ the children, the childrens ministry also needs people w/ the gift of admin...so you could volunteer to serve there.

All the various ministries within a church has a need for many different gifts, and so they use that tool to help people get a better idea of how they can serve God within the body. The body funtions better when you have people gifted in the right areas doing the work they are gifted for, and people enjoy what they are doing.


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## dannyhyde (Dec 3, 2006)

Before the service I make a public "welcome" to all visitors and invite them to stick around afterwards to get to know us a little better. I also invite them to pick up a visitors' packet on the way out, but usually my members have already given them one.

The "packet" is a folder with info, which is placed in a gift bag that an older lady decorates. The folder contains a letter from me with a brief message about our church, a pamphlet about our history, theology, lliturgy, and life as a church, usually a copy of Tabletalk, The Outlook, or ModRef, and a copy of my book, "What to Expect in Reformed Worship."

We also have "host families," as were mentioned by another. We call this "hospitality." Every week a family is responsible for inviting a family or two from church as well as visitors over for lunch.


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## BJClark (Dec 3, 2006)

Something I was thinking about...at my old church, they would have the Members stand and ask that the visitors remain seated, then the members would get up and go shake hands with the visitors welcoming them.

I don't know that they gave them a packet or anything, (I never got one) but they had a shelf hanging on the wall as you were leaving that had a bunch of pamplets in it that you could take with you if you were so inclined.


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## Pergamum (Dec 3, 2006)

Just a question.....



How does the regulative principle play into any of these practices? What sort of Scriptural examples of welcoming visitors do we have to model?


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## BJClark (Dec 3, 2006)

> Just a question.....
> 
> How does the regulative principle play into any of these practices? What sort of Scriptural examples of welcoming visitors do we have to model?



I don't believe there are any...I think the only thing we are required to do with visitors--IS SHARE THE GOSPEL!!!

As long as Preachers/Pastors are doing that...then who cares if they get cookies, or pamplets or if someone takes them to lunch or not??

I can remember as a child, one of the churches had a church bus and if the kids brought friends then they gave them candy...my parents always looked at it as a bribe to invite as many people as you could..


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## JonathanHunt (Dec 3, 2006)

Good thread.

Church size is very important. At my previous church (The Metropolitan Tabernacle) which has pushing 800 at morning worship, (sounds small in historical terms but is huge in terms of conservative particular baptist churches in Britain), there is a whole team that tries to speak to newcomers, offer hospitality, etc. The work is followed up with visitation during the week. But it is inevitable that some folks just don't get spoken to, because they slip away from the meeting so fast.

The church to which I now belong has 11 members, with between 15-30 at both sunday meetings (evening often bigger than morning!) Even there it is hard to speak to visitors - they suddenly acquire the speed of a 100 metre sprinter as soon as the benediction is given! You have to be up and out of your seat quickly!

Someone mentioned what to give first time visitors - I;d say we don't want to overwhelm them, but be welcoming, and have some sort of guide to church meetings and activities, perhaps if appropriate a small christian tract or work. Many folks who visit have bibles already, they are some variety of christian usually. But for true outsiders who come in for the first time, a church should surely always be able to give a bible if it is desired. The elder of my current church has been known just to pick up a pew bible and hand it over (they are not owner-marked) - after all, we can always buy another one at leisure!

JH


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## turmeric (Dec 3, 2006)

Here's a related question; what about those people who fall through the cracks - you often meet them after months or years of attendance and they say no one has spoken to them or reached out at all. As I posted above, I went to a church once that just seemed to "snub" me. It was a plant, and they just never invited me to a homegroup, ever. The homegroups were something you had to be invited to, which was strange anyway. Is there a certain type of person who just doesn't fit in, and what do we do about it, biblically?


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 3, 2006)

Scott Bushey said:


> I believe the formula is based upon logic and biblical inference; if the congregation is too large for the pastors and eldership to properly guide, direct and discipline, than the church will suffer. As well, if the church is too large, how does one _police_ the table? The table must be policed. If it is not, the sacraments are not being distributed according to the biblical mandate, the Church in question could cease being a Church and may become _a (c)hurch_.



This is a good point: The Church that I attend is 700 members with 8 elders. The elders have a hard enough time knowing the members let alone someone new walking in the door. I went to a church potluck last night and there were maybe 20 of us there, out of 700 people. The point is that most that go to my church are not involved in any kind of fellowship whatsoever. The pastor has a weekly Wed night bible study and maybe twenty people show up out of 700. I go to the "men's group" that meets on Thurs mornings and there is maybe at most 25 guys that show up out of 700 people. I started a mens group that meets on Sunday nights and the idea behind starting it was to get the men to fellowship and there is only 4 of us that show up weekly out of 700 people. The new person coming to church has a mountain to climb over if they are even going to know anyone. Christianity is about fellowship/relationships/ community(knowing one another) Most people that go to my church do not even know one another, it is pathetic, and tragic. I told the leadership a lack of fellowship for one another is a lack of love for one another. It dosen't seem like anyone is really concerned about anyone else except for themselves. I have been going to this church since 2001. The elders are not invovled with getting to know the members and this I think sets the tone. How do you get to know people at your church? Church life can get really lonely not just for me but the new person....


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## ReformedWretch (Dec 4, 2006)

Now we're talkin!



> Church life can get really lonely not just for me but the new person....



I am so anxious to hear thoughts on this.


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 4, 2006)

houseparent said:


> Now we're talkin!
> 
> 
> 
> I am so anxious to hear thoughts on this.




I talked to my pastor about this. His hands are tied so to speak. It is true that my pastor can't make people go to bible studies, nor can he make them fellowship with one another. A Pastor can not do everything nor can an associate pastor. The question that I have about those that are in my church is, why they do not think that it is necessary to get involved or to go to the Wed night bible study, or the Thurs morning mens group or the Sunday night mens/ fellowship group that me and another guy started. Most of the people at the church that I go to just show up on Sunday mornings. I personally can't just be a Sunday morning Christian. I do not know how these folks are living the Christian life. I need fellowship..........I need relationships.......... I need accountability........I need other people in my life so that I can be of service to them. I need to be loving people.............It is hard to love people that do not want to get known. Maybe there aren't that many "Christians" at my church. Maybe there is only 100 out of 700 that are Christians I do not know. Sunday mornings my Church is pack full of people, so one would think that we could all connect somehow but it isn't happening. This is so frustrating to me. How do we love our neighbor as ourselves when we do not even know our neighbor? How do I know who to pray for when no one shares their burdens? And you will never hear anyone confess any sin whatsoever. People are not revealing about anything. I suppose everyone that I go to church with is just living the perfect Christian life. That potluck that I went to on Saturday night was kind depressing. I talked to some older ladies that were married.........there husbands stayed home. There were no elders at the potluck... maybe I need to find another church, but my thinking is that other churches have the same problems, and one will never find the perfect church.


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## turmeric (Dec 4, 2006)

You need to find another church. The E-Free churches are like other mainstream fundamentalist churches and everyone scatters after church on Sunday. Used to drive me nuts too. And no one wants to talk about God! They're not living the perfect life, but they want each other to think so. This is because ot the perfectionism which dispensational and fundamental churches have inherited from the 19th Century revivalists. Contrast the Puritan sense of sin with that of the average US pewsitter in an independent or E-Free, or Calvary Chapel, and you'll get a shock.


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 4, 2006)

turmeric said:


> You need to find another church. The E-Free churches are like other mainstream fundamentalist churches and everyone scatters after church on Sunday. Used to drive me nuts too. And no one wants to talk about God! They're not living the perfect life, but they want each other to think so. This is because ot the perfectionism which dispensational and fundamental churches have inherited from the 19th Century revivalists. Contrast the Puritan sense of sin with that of the average US pewsitter in an independent or E-Free, or Calvary Chapel, and you'll get a shock.



There are no PCA Churches in this town. When I lived in California I was involved in the Calvary Chapel Churches, but I do not plan on returning to them. I like the pastor at this Efree Church. He is Calvinist, they teach the WCF, he is well versed in the Greek and Hebrew texts, he is well read in Puritan literature and the early church fathers. He is going to take the Thursday morning mens group through Calvin's Institutes starting in Febuary. He is I think probably one of the best expositional preachers in this town. I have no issue with him at all, he does his vocation well, he has been a friend to me for quite a few years now. This comment you made I believe is very true;
Contrast the Puritan sense of sin with that of the average US pewsitter in an independent or E-Free, or Calvary Chapel, and you'll get a shock.


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## BJClark (Dec 4, 2006)

Scott,

My heart truly aches with your plea...

Does your church put out a Bulletin or News Letter?

if so, have you considered writing a heart felt cry to the men your church about your concerns?

Maybe we can edit your comments here and you could come up with something that would work...and ask your pastor if it could be either mailed out to the men in your church in a news letter or placed in the Church bulletin as an insert. 

I've taken some of what you said, and came up with this as a starting point.


Christianity is about fellowship/relationships/ community(knowing one another) Most people that go to our church do not even know one another, it is pathetic, and tragic. A lack of fellowship for one another is a lack of love for one another.

While it is true that our pastor can not make us go to bible studies, nor can he make us fellowship with one another, we should as Christians desire to do those things.

The question I have is, why do so many here think it is not necessary to get involved or to go to the Wed night bible study, or the Thurs morning mens group or the Sunday night mens/ fellowship group? How can we call ourselves Christians if we do not even desire to fellowship with one another?

I personally can't just be a Sunday morning Christian. I do not know how other folks are living the Christian life. I need fellowship..........I need relationships.......... I need accountability........I need other people in my life so that I can be of service to them and ultimately God. I need to be loving people.............It is hard to love people that do not want to be known. 

Sunday mornings our Church is pack full of people, so one would think that we could all connect somehow; but it isn't happening. Why isn't this happening among Christians?

This is so frustrating. How do we love our neighbor as ourselves when we do not even know our neighbor? How do we know who to pray for and how to pray for them, when no one is sharing their burdens with each other?


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 4, 2006)

BJClark said:


> Scott,
> 
> My heart truly aches with your plea...
> 
> ...



This is a good Idea, everything that has been said here on the PB has been said to my Pastor, but the idea of putting this in written forum in the Newsletter might be a good idea. I am quite sure that there are many in the church that I attend feel the same way as I do. There needs to be some serious brainstorming going on to get people connected with one another somehow. One thing that I brought up in the past was to have a forum like the PB for the local congregation. The forum could be used as a means to bring people together. Here on the PB I can not physically get together with you all. At the local level a forum like this could be used to bring people together.


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## turmeric (Dec 4, 2006)

I'm sorry to generalize about your church, and glad that your pastor has such Reformed leanings - that is cause for optimism!


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## TeachMe (Dec 5, 2006)

Hmmm...My rusty wheels are slowly turning. As you can see, I go to an E-free church, and it has three services in which 700-900 attend each session. I used to attend an ABF (Adult Bible Fellowship), but I quit going because I felt out of place. Everyone else attended as a couple, and I went alone. The group got together in families, and they were welcoming, but I felt highly inferior because I was only half a couple. I also have a tendency to keep people from getting too close to me because of the rejection I experienced when I left the JWs. My pastor does preach some reformed theology; however, you all would probably catch things I easily miss. He cites Spurgeon and Grudem often, but he also enjoys Neil Anderson (The Bondage Breaker?). Frankly I'm a bit scared to search out a new church, and I'm not exactly certain what I should look for.


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 5, 2006)

TeachMe said:


> Hmmm...My rusty wheels are slowly turning. As you can see, I go to an E-free church, and it has three services in which 700-900 attend each session. I used to attend an ABF (Adult Bible Fellowship), but I quit going because I felt out of place. Everyone else attended as a couple, and I went alone. The group got together in families, and they were welcoming, but I felt highly inferior because I was only half a couple. I also have a tendency to keep people from getting too close to me because of the rejection I experienced when I left the JWs. My pastor does preach some reformed theology; however, you all would probably catch things I easily miss. He cites Spurgeon and Grudem often, but he also enjoys Neil Anderson (The Bondage Breaker?). Frankly I'm a bit scared to search out a new church, and I'm not exactly certain what I should look for.



I'm not sure were this guy, Neil Anderson (The Bondage Breaker?), goes with these guys Spurgeon and Grudem. How long have you been going to that Efree Church? That apears to be a really big church. Are you able to meet people there? and get connected somehow....... There are probably hundreds of people at that church that feel the same way that you do. Have the elders of that church been in contact with you?


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## BJClark (Dec 5, 2006)

Scott ,

I understand it's all been said to your pastor, but like you said..Your Pastor and Associate pastor can't do it all. 

So take the intiative, write a letter, then go to your pastor and let him know you would like to either put it in the news letter, or the bulletin.

Make sure to put your name, and number for people to call you if they are interested in such a fellowship. But even with the two or three people show who show up now...it's a start. Your families can make plans to do things together..

Something else, in that there are, you said 25 men who go to the Pastors study, make a list of all the men in your church, break the list down in to smaller lists and ask the men who go to the study to pray for those who don't, after you have been praying for awhile, call them, introduce yourself and let them know you have been praying for them. Think about how that would make you feel, if some man called you out of the blue to tell you, I've been praying for you. At first it may make you feel awkward, but once you had time to consider it, it's like "WOW, these men I barely know are praying for me." And a door has opened.

Have you considered contacting the elders and inviting them to lunch to find out why they, as Elders don't go to the various Men's Bible studies?

Sure it may be awkward at first, but it takes getting out of our comfort zones to actually grow and challenge others to grow, in the walk we say we have with Christ.

There are some other things you could see about doing as well, as most men bond when they do some type of physical activity together, so what kind of things could you do?

Have a father/Son basketball/football/baseball game? Then have a cook out afterwards.

Put together a golf game or a tourney that could raise funds for a missions trip or missionary or a local shelter or food bank in your area.

Have a father/daughter dance or mother/son dance, and either have the ladies serve the father/daughters or the men serve the mother/sons.

Those type of things open the door to meeting each other and fellowshiping with one another in a non-study enviroment, which in turn opens the door for more men to feel a little less anxious about going to the men's study groups, which they may feel uneasy about to begin with, because they don't know anyone or they don't know much about the bible and are afraid for whatever reason to admit it.


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## Scott Shahan (Dec 5, 2006)

BJClark said:


> Scott ,
> 
> I understand it's all been said to your pastor, but like you said..Your Pastor and Associate pastor can't do it all.
> 
> ...



This is a good idea. We do not pray for the guys that are not at the "pastor study", and I agree someone has to take the inititive and call them, I am probably the guy to step up to the plate and take some action. thanks for the helpful counsel.


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