# Job evaluations and pay for pastors?



## MCM180

Hi all,

I've looked for it on this board but can't find it. Please forgive me if I've just searched poorly.

Our church is struggling with how to evaluate pastors' work and whether to link pay to performance. I don't see a lot of specifics in Scripture on this. There are general principles (the worker is worth his wages; don't muzzle the ox). But not a lot of specific help. 

Generally we've tried to keep pay consistent with market trends based on the church salary survey that comes out every year. We did formal evaluations a few times but haven't been consistent with it. And I'm not very comfortable with the way they were done in the past anyway. 

For what it's worth, I'm skeptical that pastoral performance can be measured with enough precision to have a meaningful link to pay. And I don't like the incentives that might come about -- the pastor may be tempted to change how he does his job to try to work for a bonus. That's done in the business world, with both good and bad outcomes. But in the business world, they don't assume their workers are called by the Spirit to the work. 

Soooooo, do y'all have any helpful advice on whether & how to formally evaluate a pastor, and whether & how to link performance to pay?

Thanks very much for any help.


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## BGF

Pay for performance for a pastor would be a very difficult thing to quantify, and, in my opinion, not very wise. If a pastor meets the biblical qualifications, performs his duties reasonably well, and is not mired in scandal it is proper that his pay would reflect that of his congregation. There are too many dangers in measuring performance the way the world does.

By the way, it's nice to have some neighbors on the board. Unlike the Texans, our neck of the woods is a little under represented.


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## Edward

How are the metrics supposed to work? 

If he's supposed to do 17 hospital visitations a month, and he's running short toward the end of the month, can he kneecap an elder so he can get in a couple of more? 

Are adult conversions going to be a metric? (That would be a sign of really bad theology). 

And if the TE is going to be evaluated, perhaps the REs should be as well. 

Has someone been reading too much Jack Welch and not enough of the Puritans?


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## Bill The Baptist

Edward said:


> Has someone been reading too much Jack Welch and not enough of the Puritans?



I think you may be on to something


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## SolaScriptura

I believe that every year a pastor's salary should automatically be increased to keep up with inflation. Otherwise, the pastor actually takes a pay reduction each year. But annual cost of living adjustments really aren't what is typically meant by "pay raise." 
This is going to be unpopular here - apparently - but if a pay raise is in no way related to the the pastor's actual performance, then what is the basis? 

While it is difficult to evaluate ministers' performance with objective quantifiable standards, that doesn't mean it is impossible or that there are no standards that could be used. Evaluating a minister's performance doesn't involve arcane subjectivism.


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## Bill The Baptist

SolaScriptura said:


> While it is difficult to evaluate ministers' performance with objective quantifiable standards, that doesn't mean it is impossible or that there are no standards that could be used. Evaluating a minister's performance doesn't involve arcane subjectivism.



I think you are right, but the trouble is that people rarely agree on what a pastor should be doing with his time. Some would find spending 20-30 hours on sermon prep to be a waste of time. The question then becomes, how is this metric going to be formulated? And once it is formulated, the pastor will be bound to abide by it, which seems awfully artificial. I guess I would agree with the concept, but I think the implementation would be problematic.


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## Parakaleo

What would some of Paul's job evaluations from his churches look like? 

If your pastor is doing well, encourage him and see that he is reaping a good harvest from his labor. I have been preaching through Nehemiah and I am amazed at how much mention is made of provisions for the priests and Levites. During the time of revival in Jerusalem, the people commit themselves to supplying all that is needed for the priests and Levites, even providing additional grain, oil, and wine for the chambers of the priests. In Geneva, they gave Calvin a barrel of wine each month to defray his expenses in hospitality.

If your pastor is not doing well, first see if it may be due to laziness (that would merit a serious discussion about pay). If it isn't laziness, exhort and encourage him according to God's Word, but let it be a separate discussion from pay (for many of the reasons outlined above).


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## Romans922

I laugh at some of the responses I've seen so far.

As an elder with the other elders, you ought to go over the Scripture principles of providing for pastors. You know "don't muzzle the ox". Heb. 13:17 though it is referring particularly of the congregations obedience to the Word and much like Barnabas in Acts who was very fervent in his pastoring because of the work of God among the people; the minister ought to fulfill his call without groaning because he will be more earnest/zealous in his ministry. But groaning can come because he is focused on his finances all the time and earthly things and not free from the thought of finances (so you aren't thinking of it all the time and anxious and concerned). 

I don't believe you'll find in the Scripture that pastors ought to be paid based on performance. If your pastor is shepherding in a way that his performance is based on his pay than he ought not be your pastor. He isn't called to the office. And if his ministry is causing the elders to think about pay based on performance than there's something wrong. I hope this makes sense. Now if he isn't being paid very much (though the congregation could afford to pay more) and he is often concerned about his family's well-being and finances and budgeting etc then he will probably not be as effective in his ministry. He's already distracted. 

Now I come from a small congregation. What helps me as a Pastor is knowing that my elders/congregation want to pay me much more if they could. They pray that we would grow so they can support me and my family more. That gives me a greater desire to serve them. I hope this all makes sense.

I think pay based on performance is dumb, you should pay your pastor within your means and desire to support him more than he 'needs' so he will be free from the cares of the world (generally speaking). Now if he isn't serving well, then that shouldn't effect his pay, it should mean that you have an elders meeting and speak to him concerning it and encourage him in his ministry. How can you aid him in him ministering in a greater way where he isn't lazy if he is? 

Now if he refuses to serve well, then 1) ask if the elders are asking too much of him and then second 2) cut him loose via presbytery...if you aren't asking too much of him based on the Scriptures (going through presbytery etc). 


NOTE: the people's views of your congregation shouldn't be affecting what you do (unless it is the whole congregation or great majority - then the elders ought to consider with the Pastor the issue with discernment). The elders have been called and agreed to by the congregation. Elders should strive to have the back of the Pastor even when one or a few in the congregation have issues with the pastor. 


That's a lot of train of thought rambling there. Hope it helps for you to consider.


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## Edward

SolaScriptura said:


> This is going to be unpopular here - apparently - but if a pay raise is in no way related to the the pastor's actual performance, then what is the basis?



What are the metrics to be? 

Adding new members? Increase giving? Number of folks who read through the Bible in a year? Number of divorces in the congregation? 

I do think a pastor who can turn around a dying church should receive recognition for that. And a lazy pastor should be shown the door. 

But the session would be better served to identify the pastor's strengths and utilize those, while looking at how they can step in and cover his weaknesses.


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## Jack K

As a pastor grows in maturity, becomes more skilled, or takes on additional responsibilities, it is appropriate to acknowledge this with a bump in pay, provided the church is able to do so.

Those warning against numerical incentives are right to be concerned; a pastor's job performance is hard to evaluate in terms of numbers, and attempts to do so might easily lead to misplaced emphases. But this does not mean his performance cannot be evaluated at all. There are many good frameworks out there, starting with the biblical directives to elders and teachers. Honest evaluations conducted by wise elders can be hugely beneficial to a pastor. And it is sensible for these to be one element, even if an informal one, in determining his salary.


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## MCM180

And…this is why I asked. I appreciate the responses.

For those who seem exasperated, please realize that some churches are aware of our need to improve and that's why people like me come to ask questions like this. 

For some context, we've had some difficulty in the recent past regarding relationships among elders, pastor and congregation. (*Brett*, you may be aware of some of this; North Cincinnati has picked up a few of the families that left our fellowship. There's only one BP church in town, so you can guess who we are. Maybe you & I could grab lunch sometime and I can pick your brain about what y'all do at NCCC?) So the question comes from a well intentioned desire by the congregation to understand how the Session views the pastor and how the Session communicates that to the congregation. And to avoid the sort of difficulty we're coming out of. And to know the basis of the budget they vote on annually (no surprise, last night was our annual budget meeting).

Also, we have a pretty "professional" congregation - lots of them have white-collar or middle-management sorts of lives. So they're very used to being evaluated and it linking to their pay. And most of them probably simply haven't thought through any other models of pay or the differences between business and biblical determinants of pay levels. To them, it's just natural that performance drives pay, because most of them get paid by models that assume that pay is necessary for motivation. (Procter and Gamble doesn't assume it's employees say "woe is me if I don't process cash receipts efficiently.")

I teach managerial accounting and performance evaluation for a living, so I've thought a LOT about performance measurement and pay. And I was the treasurer for 5 years and have remained on the finance committee for the last 2 years since then - so I've struggled with the pastor pay question for a while now. I'd think the pay should depend on cost of living, pastors' needs, church's ability to pay, education and experience (indicating the work the pastor is able to do, being worth his wages), that sort of thing, which seems consistent with the general consensus here.

I agree, as most of you say, it doesn't seem to be Scriptural or wise to link pay to evaluations. We definitely need to educate the congregation how the session goes about evaluating the pastors' work. And also, what the level of pay in the annual budget does or doesn't mean. 

Our prior evaluations were largely subjective, not based on quantitative metrics but essentially opinion surveys. They weren't used with direct links to pay, but they were used as an attempt to gather evidence. Just relying on what you happen to hear from those who love the pastors or those who have complaints doesn't give the entire picture. I'm generally in favor of some method to gather evidence, because it's not clear that the session will automatically gather good evidence without a diligent effort to do so.

So, to put a bit of a turn to the thread, given that there should be no pay-performance link, how should we go about diligently determining whether he's "serving well" (to use the words several of you have used)? I assume here that even the elders best shepherding their flock will have an incomplete view of the pastor's work. Is it sufficient that he's not creating problems (scandal, heresy, violating 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1, etc.)? Should we systematically interview or survey congregants? Should we just respond to complaints or praises? 

Thanks again for your help & grace.


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## MCM180

Edward said:


> And if the TE is going to be evaluated, perhaps the REs should be as well.



For what it's worth, I agree. I'd like to be evaluated in my work as an elder. I _think_ I know my strengths and weaknesses, but of course I'm probably blind to some of both.


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## SolaScriptura

Bill The Baptist said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> 
> While it is difficult to evaluate ministers' performance with objective quantifiable standards, that doesn't mean it is impossible or that there are no standards that could be used. Evaluating a minister's performance doesn't involve arcane subjectivism.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I think you are right, but the trouble is that people rarely agree on what a pastor should be doing with his time. Some would find spending 20-30 hours on sermon prep to be a waste of time.
Click to expand...


Spending 20-30 hours a week is not a waste of time... but a sermon with that much time spent on it should be a really well-crafted sermon. If not, then the pastor should be taught how to prepare more efficiently. The reason is that preaching is not the sole activity of pastoral ministry.


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## Edward

MCM180 said:


> And to know the basis of the budget they vote on annually (no surprise, last night was our annual budget meeting).



Unless required by your Form of Government (in a quick scan, I didn't see anything one way or the other), that's probably the first thing that should go.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

There seem to be not a few attempts at evaluation of the pastor available, e.g.,

http://www.nwdlcms.org/uploads/Pastor_Evaluation.pdf

http://www.spas-elca.org/sites/default/files/files/Evaluating-Ministry-pastor-perf-review.pdf

http://www.nab.ca/aba/ChurchEnrichm... Evaluation and Annual Performance Review.pdf

http://www.cma-cmd.ca/files/pastor_performance_reviewapr2013_resource.pdf

...and so on per http://bfy.tw/3yRR


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## MCM180

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> There seem to be not a few attempts at evaluation of the pastor available,



Yes. I do have the google too. (As I remind my students who copy & paste stuff off the internet.)

I'm more hoping for wisdom than for mere search results. Stuff can look great on paper but not work so well in real life.


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## MCM180

Edward said:


> MCM180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> And to know the basis of the budget they vote on annually (no surprise, last night was our annual budget meeting).
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unless required by your Form of Government (in a quick scan, I didn't see anything one way or the other), that's probably the first thing that should go.
Click to expand...


That may be. I don't see a lot of Scripture on proper budget processes, so it seems a matter of wisdom. 

But the church has been doing that since I was negative ten years old. And taking it away is different from not having it at all. Not sure it'd be wise to suggest ending the process.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

MCM180 said:


> Ask Mr. Religion said:
> 
> 
> 
> There seem to be not a few attempts at evaluation of the pastor available,
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes. I do have the google too. (As I remind my students who copy & paste stuff off the internet.)
> 
> I'm more hoping for wisdom than for mere search results. Stuff can look great on paper but not work so well in real life.
Click to expand...

My point of "merely" noting that instruments are available was to suggest by implication that one could take a few into consideration and tailor them for your church's specific needs. Your OP lamented Scriptural support surrounding the process and I am sure one of those so linked in my post contained some pointers in that direction. Another contained pointers to external resources that your church may want to take into consideration. If your church is going down this path, drawing upon established principles of leadership development from the secular world is not necessarily taboo. Having managed large teams of R&D professionals, most with advanced engineering degrees, and having been a pastor, I can say from experience that there is plenty related to performance management and compensation that can be transferred into a church setting. If the fear is that a pastor will tailor his efforts to "check the objectives box" for more money, that in itself merits careful thinking in how performance is measured, not to mention how room for improvement is also noted.  

Your church team should be thinking about the essential traits it expects of its pastor. Although it is a Methodist based study, this paper offers up some ranked aspects along those lines: http://ministerscouncil.com/wp-cont...n-2011-Clergy-Effectiveness-Summary-final.pdf that could be mapped to Scripture.

As for how time is being spent by the pastor, here is an interesting study devoted to that topic as well as identification of key performance related categories: http://ministerscouncil.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/clergy-effectiveness-study-ksap.pdf

If I were king for a day,  I suspect I would via aa committee process that includes the pastor, establish the key areas comprising all the work the pastor does, drawing upon literature and the local environment, suggestive of these categories. We would rank them in order of importance to the church. These rankings would then be assigned weights based upon the average level of time spent by the pastor in these areas. These weighted areas are then indexes to compensation that would be based upon the pastor's performance evaluation (highly effective -- effective -- not effective) in each of these categories.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

MCM180 said:


> That may be. I don't see a lot of Scripture on proper budget processes, so it seems a matter of wisdom.


You might give this a read:

Biblical Economics: A Commonsense Guide To Our Daily Bread
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZDO2HQ


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## BGF

> Brett, you may be aware of some of this; North Cincinnati has picked up a few of the families that left our fellowship. There's only one BP church in town, so you can guess who we are. Maybe you & I could grab lunch sometime and I can pick your brain about what y'all do at NCCC?



Yes, I'm vaguely aware of some of the history. Lunch would be great, although the pickins' in my brain might be slim. I'll PM you in the next few days to check your availability.


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## MCM180

Ask Mr. Religion said:


> MCM180 said:
> 
> 
> 
> That may be. I don't see a lot of Scripture on proper budget processes, so it seems a matter of wisdom.
> 
> 
> 
> You might give this a read:
> 
> Biblical Economics: A Commonsense Guide To Our Daily Bread
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003ZDO2HQ
Click to expand...


Patrick,
Thanks for all your help in your posts. 

Please forgive the dismissive tone in my prior reply - I mistook your brevity for…well, I'm not sure. But I was needlessly rude to you.
Yours,
Christian


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## jwithnell

The elephant in the room for this question is that the success of a pastor is not his own. While that's true in all our endeavors, it is particularly true in the church. What kind of reviews would Ezekiel have received?

I do think it is the responsibility for all in the congregation to offer encouragement, and if there's a personal issue, to approach a pastor as a brother. But the sad truth is, a pastor may work many years in a small congregation, may be handed heart-wrenching problems, die in obscurity, and be greeted with: "well done faithful servant."


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## richardnz

I heard this story some years ago from friends in another church. 
Their church was running low on money and so the elders met with the pastor to discuss the situation. One elder suggested a solution. He noted that if the pastor's salary was taken out of the expenses then the budget looked good. With enthusiasm he suggested that an obvious solution was that the pastor's pay be stopped and the pastor started to “live by faith”. This was a win-win situation because not only would the church finances be healthy, but the pastor would be blessed as he grew in faith! The pastor was initially stunned, but responded quickly, saying to the elders that he thought it was a great idea, and that he was confident that he would be blessed. So confident was he that he thought that all of the elders could share in this blessing with him if they all forfeited their salaries and donated them to the church. Then the church would have enough money for a building, for missions etc and all of the elders would become men of strong faith as they saw God provide for their needs, the congregation would be inspired by their example of faith and everything would be wonderful. This suggestion was met with a moment of quiet reflection by the elders.

The discussion then moved on to the next item on the agenda.

I thought that this story was somewhat amusing, but illustrated a serious principle at stake in determining a pastor's pay, that is, you should love your neighbor as yourself. Imagine a situation where a church does not have a pastor, and the elders rotate preaching duties. One elder stands out as being more gifted than the others so the other elders ask him to become the full-time preacher of the church, and they will provide him with the income he needs. All of the elders earn similar wages in their various occupations, and so they say to him, “Brother, we do not want you to feel that you will be financially disadvantaged by taking on this role. You are relieving us all of work that we were struggling with, and so it is only right that we pay you as much as you were earning before. We do not want you to resent us for taking advantage of your willingness to serve. We are all in this together as a team of elders. Let us share the financial blessings of God to our mutual benefit”.

For this reason many say a starting point in considering the proper wage for a pastor is what the typical congregational member earns. It is only a starting point because there are many other things to consider. However the attitude is key: the pastor is our brother, especially when it comes to money. Let us love him as ourselves.


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## Edward

richardnz said:


> For this reason many say a starting point in considering the proper wage for a pastor is what the typical congregational member earns.



I agree with that, with the caveat of adjusting for tax benefits and possibly social security election (in the US - not sure what that would look like in New Zealand).


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## MCM180

Edward said:


> richardnz said:
> 
> 
> 
> For this reason many say a starting point in considering the proper wage for a pastor is what the typical congregational member earns.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree with that, with the caveat of adjusting for tax benefits and possibly social security election (in the US - not sure what that would look like in New Zealand).
Click to expand...


And don't forget adjusting for the disadvantage of working at a small organization that can't offer good deals on health insurance, retirement matching, group term life, perks and more perks, etc. A reasonably high percentage of our particular congregation works for large publicly-traded companies. Total comp including benefits is way higher than salary for those folks. 

Anyway, thanks everyone for the good insights and wisdom. I'm more convinced than I was before that pay-for-performance isn't Biblical or wise.

Yours,
Christian


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## Edward

MCM180 said:


> A reasonably high percentage of our particular congregation works for large publicly-traded companies. Total comp including benefits is way higher than salary for those folks.



Good point. Since our church offers a good benefits package, I wasn't focused on the bigger picture. Thanks, adjustments should go both ways.


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