# Multi-Level Marketing?



## buggy (May 19, 2010)

What is this multi-level marketing? 
Is it a legitimate form of business for the Christian to partake in or is it a sin? What does the Scriptures say?


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## Tripel (May 19, 2010)

It's hard to label a broad category like that as either legitimate or sin. It's something you need to evaluate on a case by case basis. 

The first thing to consider is the primary source of cash flow. If it's fees and renewals of other people in the operation, it's not legitimate. Actually, it's a pyramid scheme. If the primary source of cash flow is the sale of goods, then it might be legitimate.


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## SemperEruditio (May 19, 2010)

It's a legal Ponzi scheme, where the one at the top makes money and all the "downline" try to develop their own little pyramids so that they are on the top by selling something.

As best as I can tell the prosperity gospel seems to have started in Amway in the Bill Britt group. That was the first place I saw and heard scripture being contorted to claim that we not only have a right but a mandate by god to prosper. The goal was to get people into Amway and then have them attend one of the quarterly conferences. At the conferences there was an explicit message from the stage that it was because of their faith in Jesus that their businesses were successful and if you want it you can have it to, just do what they did. So everything was to lead to Sunday where it was essentially a massive altar call and that was the secret to now have a successful business.

It is legitimate but there are many dangers with it. One being that you begin to quit associating with non-business friends because the money is in spending time with those who are also looking to make money. You lose focus on which is more important and try this syncretistic amalgamation of God+money and that since your ultimate goal is God and you get there via money that the focus of money IS focusing on God. Now no one says it like that but that was how it was practiced. In my experience MLM is very cultic. You only read what they tell you to read or shop where they tell you to shop or speak with those who will help you financially.

24/7 it becomes about "your" business. A Christian has the liberty to partake in it and it is not sin. The dangers are that since usually these businesses are done after your normal job that this takes you away from family. I know many who have divorced or even gone into bankruptcy. Their uplines have even encouraged bankruptcy because with all the alleged money they will one day make they will laugh at the bankruptcy....

I have not met anyone who has made any money in it. I know plenty who have claimed to make money but none who have actually made money. There was a couple that was making $5k per month and last I heard they are out of the business and divorced. For a business model which claims to help your family grow closer it is a fraud.

My advice:
Do your homework and read the fine print before signing. Especially overseas because I've read how these are not legally controlled overseas and many people are being defrauded.


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## christianyouth (May 19, 2010)

GREAT post, Frank.


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## Idelette (May 19, 2010)

Dear Brother, I would highly advise you not to get involved in any of these businesses if you considering it! I have had SO MANY friends that have gotten involved with pyramid businesses and it has never been a good situation! These businesses have ruined a lot of friendships, and even divided churches. I could tell you so many stories, but I will spare you the details! I don't they are always sinful because some of them are better businesses then others. (Some good ones off the top of my head are; Pampered Chef and Shaklee). But as for the rest of them, I will go as far as to say that the marketing principles behind the majority ARE sinful! Specifically, they use deceit and manipulation in their marketing and they encourage their workers to do the same! And they do encourage their employees to not "waste their time" with people that won't be potential money makers! They will tell you to invest a lot of money up front, because you'll be making more money later (which is questionable). And what is really disheartening, is that a lot of these businesses claim to be "christian based" yet the whole driving force behind their business is to get rich not glorify the Lord! They specifically target "Christians" because many christian women are stay-at-home wives that would be looking to "work from home". I have had probably 2 dozen friends who have done these pyramid businesses over the years, and not one of them has been able to do well with it! Anything that sounds too good to be true, probably isn't true! My advice would be to steer clear, and find a legitimate source of income!


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## Andres (May 19, 2010)

They're garbage and the sad thing is, they suck in a lot of Christian people. People want lots of money quickly without putting in hard work. The plans are predicated on greed, which is obviously wicked, so yes, I think they're unwise to partake in. They're also predicated on lies because they say that people can make large amounts of money very easily when in reality, the majority of people will make maybe a few bucks after badgering all their friends to sign up.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 19, 2010)

> they do encourage their employees to not "waste their time" with people that won't be potential money makers! They will tell you to invest a lot of money up front, because you'll be making more money later (which is questionable).



I would say this is true with sales in general. When looked at it from this perspective, I can't see where this concept is sinful. If I am in the car selling businesss (hypothetical of course). I have to buy cars first in order to sell them (this is the only way to make money and it is not guaranteed as you pointed out). Also I am not going to try to sell a car to someone who doesn't want a new car. It is a waste of breath.

I was in volved in a MLM company and looked into several others. I cannot recall them saying that we should alienate and have nothing to do with people who are not interested in the business, just that if they are not interested don't attempt to get into a two hour attempt to make them interested. Simply move on. 

I would also add that the difference between an illegal pyramid and a MLM company is that in a pyramid money is moved around without goods or services being sold. In a MLM money is moved around when goods and services are rendered. 

Also just because you got in at the top does not mean you will make the most money. Most MLM companies have a residual income for only two or three levels down. This means that person A could be making a residual off of person B and be making no where near the total amount of person B. A real life example was in the company I was with. I met Mr. Nelson once who was making 4 million a year in the company (he was a real good salesman). The person who brought him into the company was only making 50 grand (he wasn't a good salesman). In fact, the entire 50 thousand came as residual from Mr. Nelson. He literally couldn't sell anything.

After saying all of this I still admit that some MLM companies are extremely poor companies and you can lose alot of money with them. I would say though that this is a problem with the company and not MLM. In much the same way that selling deep-sea diving equipment to people in Arizona is a bad business, not that selling in general is bad.


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## Idelette (May 19, 2010)

Chaplainintraining said:


> > they do encourage their employees to not "waste their time" with people that won't be potential money makers! They will tell you to invest a lot of money up front, because you'll be making more money later (which is questionable).
> 
> 
> 
> I would say this is true with sales in general. When looked at it from this perspective, I can't see where this concept is sinful. If I am in the car selling businesss (hypothetical of course). I have to buy cars first in order to sell them (this is the only way to make money and it is not guaranteed as you pointed out). Also I am not going to try to sell a car to someone who doesn't want a new car. It is a waste of breath.


 
I've known people that have completely severed fellowship with others because they won't buy or enter into the business aspect of their MLM business. That's quite different then being a car salesman. If someone from your church comes and views a car at your lot, but then decides to go with another car dealership, you may be a bit disappointed but you'd probably still have fellowship with them. But I've known people that have completely cut fellowship over these businesses. And I do know for a fact that it was encouraged by more than one company. One of them is called Market America (which also goes by many other names).


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## SemperEruditio (May 19, 2010)

Idelette said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > > they do encourage their employees to not "waste their time" with people that won't be potential money makers! They will tell you to invest a lot of money up front, because you'll be making more money later (which is questionable).
> ...


 
Same experience here. Heck one of my downline was declared an outcast because he signed up with me but his uncle was a distributor. The rest of the family were downline in the uncles organization and were very upset. The guy sheepishly came to me to beg to be moved. I didn't understand the issue because the uncle had never shown him "the plan." When he told me the problem my upline and I filled out the paper and transferred him to his uncle. The pastor of the church lost half of the congregation, ~25 people, because he signed up with someone who wasn't a member in the church.

My experiences with Amway are not unique. The business and model are sound however it depends on people which is where the problem comes in. Most of the money made in Amway in the Bill Britt downline were made from the books, tapes, and conferences and not selling Amway. That is where they got you and the focus goes from selling soap to learning how to sell soap.


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## Steve Curtis (May 19, 2010)

The problem is with trying to paint these companies with broad strokes. Some are, undeniably, scams. Others are built upon manipulation or greed. Granted. But Boliver's point is right - this is simply a variation on the general theme of sales. I have been involved in a few MLM’s. I left a couple of them soon after seeing their literature. But I stayed with a couple others for many years. Any salesman may have a boss who goads him into high-pressure tactics. Likewise, in an MLM, one may have an up-line sponsor who does that. Yet a man with integrity resists in both cases.

Also, the MLM model is essentially a sound one for people who are inclined toward 1) sales and 2) owning a business. Not everyone is cut out for one or the other (or either). But if I buy a product at a discount and sell it to the public, I am simply engaged in normal commerce. And if I "hire" people to sell a product, I am simply engaging in the economic principle of exponential exposure. Many (if not most) sales positions are not true hires, but independent contractors; in MLM, it is the same thing. The person is accountable to no superior in the business, and is solely responsible for failing or succeeding. If someone chooses to act unwisely or imprudently in the conduct of any business, that is only a reflection on him and on his convictions (or lack thereof).
If a person is easily manipulated or compelled to do something he or she ought not do, then I would advise that person to stay away from all sales positions, not just MLM. Conversely, if a person is sure of his or her integrity and able to defend it if challenged, then I would only counsel that person to carefully examine any business before becoming associated with it (whether MLM or not). 

Finally, MLM is nothing more than a model for a company to sell its product. It is not inherently evil, any more than the Fuller Brush folks sending people door to door in the 50’s or Outback plastering enticing ads on television as suppertime approaches. These are all marketing tools. And marketing tools are like guns – only dangerous when in the hands of someone who doesn’t handle them responsibly! I personally made a good living in MLM in the 80’s – and did so without surrendering my integrity or compromising my morals. I sold products that I believed to be valuable and reasonably priced, and I found other like-minded people (usually through running ads in the newspaper) to do the same thing. I encouraged them and participated in their success. I have also owned “brick and mortar” stores and I have similarly encouraged my sales staff in those businesses and also made money every time they made a sale.

Beware of the hype that surrounds MLM’s, and treat it like any business. If you can get behind the product, and the compensation for selling that product is fair, sell it! If you can find other people who are similarly inclined, bring them on board. And, as in any business, if you are ever concerned that something you are doing or are being compelled to do is sinful, run away as fast as you can.


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## Dwimble (May 19, 2010)

As others have said, the MLM model is not inherently evil, but there are a lot of built in aspects to it that can easily seduce one into sinful behavior...taking advantage of your brothers, viewing others in terms of how much money they will make you, and so on. Further, from my experience these aspects are usually subtle and the effects build over time. I've been involved with a few over the years and I will never take part in another one as long as I live.

Here's a common thing that I've seen happen MANY times. Your friend you haven't spoken to in awhile calls you up, "hey, let's get together, we haven't seen each other in awhile." Great! You get with him, have a great visit, and then comes the REAL reason for the call and visit..."I have a GREAT opportunity for you." As if he is really thinking of YOU and not himself and his own downline. Unfortunately, more often than not he may have actually convinced himself that he really is thinking of you and not himself.

I've seen that scenario repeated many times and seen many people (including myself) hurt by it. You think this friend or relative want to see you or chat with you, but then you find out what he really wanted to do was pitch something to you and sign you up as a perpetual revenue stream for him. And because the model depends on networks of people, it is especially popular and ready-made for churches, since they already have a built in hierarchical structure and network of groups. The problem is that this common scenario starts out with deception. Amway, for example, used to outright tell their people DO NOT tell the prospect why you are calling. Even if you pushed them you couldn't get them to tell you what they wanted to talk to you about. Again, deception. In my opinion, if your "friend" is selling something, why not just call you and say, "Hey, Mike, I'm selling XYZ product now and I'm calling all my friends and relatives to see if they are interested. Could I send you a brochure or get with you and show you what I have? Then, maybe we can catch up too, since we haven't spoken in awhile." No deception required.

If you can somehow divorce yourself from the MLM aspects of it and just sell the products, then you may be able to avoid the pitfalls, but it is tough to do. MLM products are usually pretty pricey and frequently hard to sell because everyone up the line has to get a cut of all your sales. In my opinion, if you want to be in sales then why not just go sell something? Why not find something good to buy wholesale and sell it on your own, or do straight sales for a normal company? The MLM model is that you will supposedly get something for nothing (which should be a red flag right there) because you will get a commission off what several levels of people under you sells. But of course everyone under you is trying to make money off everyone under them as well. The fact is this seldom turns out to be true because the companies put so many restrictions on it that few people ever consistently meet the necessary requirements to get a significant downline commission. Everyone ends making a tiny bit of money for themselves, but all together a HUGE amount of money for the company. With the exception of a minority of people at any of these given companies, most people would be much better off if they would just go get a job somewhere and stop with all the MLM headaches. They'd make more money and could just go back to being a normal friend instead of annoying everyone all the time.


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## Jim-Bob (May 20, 2010)

The best summary I ever saw - see link below. Stay away from almost all forms of MLM!

Messiah's Covenant Community Church & Messiah's Ministries - A Multi-Level Warning about Multi-Level Marketing


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## Herald (May 20, 2010)

As a sales professional I have investigated multi-level marketing as a business model and researched the leading companies. What I have found is that product sales alone will not generate an acceptable income. Recruiting new distributors is essential to making money. That presents a huge problem. As long as your downline is growing, and you can keep them motivated, you can make money. But sooner or later your organization is going to have to generate enough sales to satisfy the income expectations of all involved. That's impossible. Imagine if there was 1,000 people in your town, and all 1,000 opened a McDonald's franchise. The whole town is full of golden arches. Everyone shows up for work and expects customers; only the whole town is concerned about their own franchise. So they start buying their own product in order to show sales. But that can't sustain them because they are spending their own money. Unless each franchisee can attract new customers the franchise will fail. The only people making money is the corporation who sold the franchises. That's how a multi-level business works. If you get in as close to the ground floor as possible you can earn money. But as the organization expands it becomes harder and harder to generate the sales dollars in order to justify the investment. I've yet to see a multi-level marketing business that depends mostly on product sales to generate revenue.


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## jayce475 (May 20, 2010)

buggy said:


> What is this multi-level marketing?
> Is it a legitimate form of business for the Christian to partake in or is it a sin? What does the Scriptures say?


 
As mentioned, MLM as a business model may be legitimate, albeit a bit risky. However, I've yet to see any MLM company in Singapore that is not simply scamming people for money. When my friend was desperately trying to convince me to join Sunshine Empire, I pressed him for some answers as to what product he was selling. The reply was that "I" was the product, as well as some new-age nonsense about selling the intangibles. Then he went on to extol the virtues of James Phang and at the same time claim that Kong Hee was essentially the same as James. Of course when the company went bust and was investigated by the Singapore authorities, he realized that it was time to pull out. While he was in it, he made tens of thousands of dollars at the expense of many others. If by MLM you're referring to something of this ilk, scamming people is definitely a sin. Last I heard Amway isn't much better, just that they have some really horrible and overpriced products in place of the "intangibles".


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## Scott1 (May 20, 2010)

One thing that might bear on this scripturally- when one views the church community as a multilevel marketing "base" it can sour relationships because it conditions those relationships on business rather than covenant.

At minimum, it is not to be any part of Lord's Day worship or anything connected with it. 

There is nothing wrong with networking in the covenant community, or among Christians generally. 

There isn't anything inherently wrong with the multi-level concept, either. It is used many formats successfully and legitimately.

But in the last 30 years or so, the concept itself has come to be identified more with a focus on recruiting dependent sales people, and creating an almost sectarian business clique rather than actually selling something of value- but these don't have to be. Some people can and do make good money on good products and services using something of this format.

Some of the products that have been sold this way over the years, in retrospect, are down right humorous because they have so little proven intrinsic value- the multi-level relationships taking precedence over the product or service itself.

One of the fastest ways to burn bridges with God's people is for them to sense you view them mainly as a means to an end of recruiting for personal gain- and God cannot be pleased with that- on the Lord's Day or any other.


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## Kevin (May 22, 2010)

Bill had a great synopsis of the MLM process. As a salesman for over 20 years I was recruited many times. Probably over 50 and I never signed up for one. The main proplem in my opinion, is that they expect the kind of results that only a pro could deliver, then they push everyone to perform at that level. 

The premise is flawed, everyone is not a salesman.


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## Lincolnshire Paul (May 23, 2010)

Brother, I have seen and experienced myself divided and broken friendships from these schemes. I would steer clear. Generally they are motivated by greed it seems and people trying to get something for nothing. I got offered to partake in one once, I found it strange how people claimed that they were making thousands of bucks but yet didn't seem to show it - didn't drive exceptional cars or own fancy watches or anything else.


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## jwithnell (May 23, 2010)

Funny thing is, Amway used to have some good products (back in the '60s) that weren't available through other sources; when people started recruiting me in the 80s, I was surprised to see what a bizarre philosophy and structure they had. (Opening of the presentation: "tell me what you dream about; tell me what you most want in life ...")

Remember though, that some people get involved in these businesses because they are trying to survive as single-income families in a nation that is now assuming that husband _and_ wife work. I _don't_ agree with a business structure that flat-out uses people, but am sympathetic to why some would allow themselves to be pulled in.


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