# Witnessing at Work



## Jared

I work at Papa John's in Clinton, Tennessee. The general manager of the store and I are on fairly good terms. He tends to be the kind of person that seems to genuinely like just about everyone. But, he's not a believer.

I have always tried to witness to people since I started following Jesus ten years ago and I have witnessed to most of the people that I work with. I try to not do it when things are busy but with my work, there are a lot of times where there's not much of anything going on and I have plenty of time to talk with people.

A few weeks ago, James, my manager essentially told me not to witness to people at work. What should I do? He's something of a nominal Christian I think. He doesn't go to church but he does like to read C.S. Lewis. He has suggested to me that he reads Lewis's works instead of the Bible because he gets more out of them.

Like I said, I have always tried to witness to people. But, the past few weeks, and I don't know if it's directly tied to what James said to me, but the past few weeks I haven't been witnessing as much as I used to. It's hard to explain to someone like that that you really believe that just about everyone in the store is going to go to hell if they don't get saved.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


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## Edward

My advice would be to not make his life difficult. It could be as simple as some HR type warning him about creating a hostile work environment, or he could have gotten a complaint from a co-worker. The workplace is not a public forum, and I'd commend to your study the WLC on the subject:

Q. 127. What is the honor that inferiors owe to their superiors?
A. The honor which inferiors owe to their superiors is, all due reverence in heart, word, and behavior; prayer and thanksgiving for them; imitation of their virtues and graces; willing obedience to their lawful commands and counsels; due submission to their corrections; fidelity to, defense, and maintenance of their persons and authority, according to their several ranks, and the nature of their places; bearing with their infirmities, and covering them in love, that so they may be an honor to them and to their government.

Q. 128. What are the sins of inferiors against their superiors?
A. The sins of inferiors against their superiors are, all neglect of the duties required toward them; envying at, contempt of, and rebellion against their persons and places, in their lawful counsels, commands, and corrections; cursing, mocking, and all such refractory and scandalous carriage, as proves a shame and dishonor to them and their government.

Witness on your own time, not his.


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## TimV

Yeah, you're getting paid for your time, so you basically do what you're told. Edward, do you remember a couple decades ago when a soldier was told he couldn't read the Bible while he was on sentry duty? If I recall correctly he was whooped upside his head when he refused on religious grounds, and I thought at the time he needed to be whooped upside his head.

If the boss says to read P#$n, you say no. If the boss says to over charge customers you say no. But if the boss says don't wear sandals or don't smoke or don't wear a shirt supporting Che G. then you obey. He's paying you for your time. You have 16 other hours to witness.


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## Jared

But I don't see most of these people outside of work. I have heard people say that before that you shouldn't witness at work, you should witness on your own time. But what if you don't see those people outside of work? Some of them I don't even get a chance to see outside of work because they get there when I do and they leave before I do. I've always had a hard time seeing that it's wrong to witness at work. Especially if nothing else is going on. I talk to those people about sports, the weather, politics, and everything else at work. I feel bad about not talking about the most important thing, how Jesus has changed my life, when I talk to them about all of these other things that have little to no eternal significance. Yeah, you can witness with your lifestyle. But, they need to hear the Gospel. They won't be saved otherwise. Even if they're attracted to us because of our lifestyle, they still won't be saved without the Gospel.


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## Weston Stoler

I answer questions when asked but I don't go looking for opportunities. I work at pizza hutt so we both work in the same field my man


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## Jared

Weston Stoler said:


> I answer questions when asked but I don't go looking for opportunities. I work at pizza hutt so we both work in the same field my man



But how often do people ask about your faith? I can't think of very many instances where people have asked about my faith. Do you take that same approach outside of work?


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## Weston Stoler

Jared Hanley said:


> Weston Stoler said:
> 
> 
> 
> I answer questions when asked but I don't go looking for opportunities. I work at pizza hutt so we both work in the same field my man
> 
> 
> 
> 
> But how often do people ask about your faith? I can't think of very many instances where people have asked about my faith. Do you take that same approach outside of work?
Click to expand...


In work I have shared that I go to church, that my church believes savation is faith alone, and many other different conversations that come up at work. The gospel is not a singular presentation. You present it in every day speech. Everyday bringing them into a fuller knowledge of what the gospel is. And if you see them after work, do share the gospel with them in its fullness. However doing it on the job especially at something like a pizza place is not the best place to do it.


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## ChariotsofFire

Jared,

Do you have break-time that you could use for this opportunity? It doesn't have to be on the clock. Don't be afraid to lose your job to share the gospel.


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## Jared

ChariotsofFire said:


> Jared,
> 
> Do you have break-time that you could use for this opportunity? It doesn't have to be on the clock. Don't be afraid to lose your job to share the gospel.



We don't have breaks. Not technically. We can basically take a quick break whenever we get the chance but we don't clock out until the end of our shift.


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## Don Kistler

Jared, this doesn't qualify as "advice," but unless your employer has put in your job description to witness to the Lord and to your faith, then if you do other than what he is paying you for, I think you are stealing time and energy from your appointed task, which is to make pizzas. And if your manager has told you to stop doing so, then your witness now is your submission to authority. 

If you don't feel that you can do that, then you either must suffer the consequences of your actions (w/o feeling like a martyr), which may include losing your job, or you must find another job where you can do as you like in this area.

But if they are paying you to make pizzas, then give them 8 hours of pizza-making for 8 hours of pay, not 7.5 hours of pizza making and .5 hour of witnessing.

Ok, I guess that was advice.


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## Andres

Jared Hanley said:


> But what if you don't see those people outside of work? Some of them I don't even get a chance to see outside of work because they get there when I do and they leave before I do.



If you get fired for being an insubordinate employee, then you'll really never get to see any of those people. Why don't you invite them to grab a cup of coffee or a burger or something (your treat) and then you can share the good news of Christ on your own time without the conflict of interest.

---------- Post added at 09:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:20 AM ----------




ChariotsofFire said:


> Don't be afraid to lose your job to share the gospel.



I hope you don't have a wife or children that you are providing for. This isn't a case of "sacrificing for Jesus", but rather a matter of being wise and being a good employee.


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## Reformed Thomist

Jared:

'Witnessing' in the workplace may certainly be a God-appointed means to the regeneration of souls, and thus much joy and peace; but it also has a high potential to poison a workplace's atmosphere for a lot of people, non-believers (such as one of your co-workers) and believers (imagine yourself having to work with a Jehovah's Witness or whatever all day long who just won't leave it alone). It can very easily hurt a business. Your boss doesn't want that, and you certainly don't want that, especially in this economy.

Your boss has advised you not to 'witness' (practice direct verbal evangelism) in the workplace, and he probably has practical reasons for this. I think you ought to submit to his authority and rectify this aspect of your behavior within the workplace. Limit your evangelistic activity there to glorifying God by way of being the best employee that you can be. Your boss and co-workers are no doubt well-aware that you are a Christian; stand out as one by the way that you _do your job_. This in itself can be the most powerful form of witness. It also has the benefit of being a form of witness which no employer in his right mind would have a problem with.


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## Rufus

Weston Stoler said:


> I answer questions when asked but I don't go looking for opportunities. I work at pizza hutt so we both work in the same field my man



I work in a similar fashion but with opportunity may sneak in a good presentation of the gospel. To answer Jared, it does come up sometimes and I wish it where more often.


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## Tim

ChariotsofFire said:


> Don't be afraid to lose your job to share the gospel.



I must respectfully disagree with this advice, for reasons already presented. If you had said this:

"Don't be afraid to lose your job for being a Christian..."

I would agree.


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## Mushroom

God is sovereign over where and when your co-workers hear the Gospel. Why would He need one of His children to rebel (sin) against the valid authority of his employer over the content of workplace speech to achieve that end?


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## Jared

Brad said:


> God is sovereign over where and when your co-workers hear the Gospel. Why would He need one of His children to rebel (sin) against the valid authority of his employer over the content of workplace speech to achieve that end?



To be clear to everyone, I really haven't "witnessed" that much since my manager talked to me about this.

But, some people might ask the following question:

How is complying with a manager's wishes for you to not witness at work different from the disciples in the book of Acts where they are strictly warned by the Jewish council not to speak in anymore in the name of Jesus and they say:

“We must obey God rather than men."
Acts 5:29 ESV

Or conversely, could it be said that someone trying to tell Christians not to witness at work if their employer doesn't want them to is like the Pharisees and their legalism? Would it be like telling paramedics that they have to obey all of the traffic laws?

I disagreed with Franklin Graham when he told Christians to not witness at the Beijing Olympics since the Chinese didn't want Christians to witness there. Since when did we become so politically correct and afraid of losing our jobs or our reputations for the sake of Christ.

I understand that it wouldn't be a good witness to waste time at work doing something other than work when you have something that you need to be doing no matter what it was. But, if you have some spare time like I do and people talk about a lot of different things anyway, then what harm is there is occasionally taking the time to tell someone about Christ?


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## Steve Curtis

Jared Hanley said:


> How is complying with a manager's wishes for you to not witness at work different from the disciples in the book of Acts where they are strictly warned by the Jewish council not to speak in anymore in the name of Jesus


The apostles weren't on the council's payroll.


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## Pergamum

P.s. Employees talk about all sorts of things WHILE they work, and this isn't counted as stealing time. They talk sports in the midst of work. So, if asked and if appropriate, then there is no reason why the conversation should not also deviate towards what is central to your heart as well if it can be done in the midst of work and not as a competition with your work.

We are always to be ready to give an answer. That means ALL Christians. One doesn't need to be sent out as a pastor to answer a religious question poised by your co-workers and this is how the Gospel often spreads.


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## Steve Curtis

Jared Hanley said:


> “We must obey God rather than men."


God hasn't commanded that you violate your agreement to trade your time for your employer's money. (As others have noted, however, if your employer demands something that is contrary to your obedience to God, it would be a different matter)


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## Pergamum

Jared:

I think the reaction you are getting from the PB here is because we are acquainted with poor employees that were lazy or annoying but always tried to represent Christ. 

I worked beside one such person and it had the effect of making Christ look bad. He would have done better to only answer questions if asked and focus more on his job, but instead he hounded his employees who, endured him politely at first, and then hardened to him (and probably the Gospel) and began to respond with objections just to try to get him to shut up. 

It effectively shut down all non-confrontational religious talk on the floor. Whereas before, people asked me their questions and I answered when there was time and left it at that; this guy rolls in and does a drive-by shot-gun "witnessing" that soured folks on even bringing up the subject. On one occasion I had to say, "Look, I don't believe the same as that guy."


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## jogri17

The great commission is not an excuse for individual Christians to do anything they want in the name of seeking the Lost. While certainly the NT has strong evidence of lay Christians of testifying to the name of Christ and souls being saved that way, it is not a sin for the average Christian to not share the Gospel verbally with all those who you are able to. 

When I was much younger (17-19) I would witness daily at my High School and sometimes open air preach. I have no regrets. I saw fruit and converts and God used it to teach me more about what it truely means to love my neighbour, but I was theologically ignorant (more so than now at least) and I didn't have the maturity that comes with life experience. I simply copied Ray Comfort and other techniques. Again, no regrets, but in my mind I bore witness to Christ, at the same time, I offended many people. And when I fell in to sin publically ( I got caught drinking underage for my first time), the name of Christ was dragged through the mud because of that. That was 5 years ago I think? Anyways, My suggestion would be to not freak out about their souls, make friends with the actual persons and hang out with them outside of work. The problem with fundamentalist evangelism is that it turns the Gospel into a product and the sinner into a customer and the christian into a salesman. It is better to build friendships and live Christianly in front of them and truely learn to love people for who they are as individuals.


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## calgal

Jared:

Are YOU saving these coworkers or is God saving them?


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## Jared

calgal said:


> Jared:
> 
> Are YOU saving these coworkers or is God saving them?



Of course God saves people. He saves through the preaching (or "sharing" if you will) of the Gospel.


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## TimV

Jared Hanley said:


> Yeah, you can witness with your lifestyle. But, they need to hear the Gospel. They won't be saved otherwise.



What you said earlier is what made many of us wonder. God doesn't need you.


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## Jared

TimV said:


> Jared Hanley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you can witness with your lifestyle. But, they need to hear the Gospel. They won't be saved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you said earlier is what made many of us wonder. God doesn't need you.
Click to expand...


It is true that in one sense He doesn't need me. His missions enterprise will go forward whether I cooperate or not. No purpose of His can be thwarted. But, I think the life of William Carey shows that we can fall into an equal and opposite error; namely not recognizing our personal responsibility in the matter. There were those who told him "If God wants to save the heathen in India, He will do it without your help or mine."


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## Todd King

There seems to be a common misperception that we must continually share the gospel until one is finally "saved." In fact, I have heard it said that one must hear the gospel 86 times before he will accept Christ (on average). I call hogwash! After 86 times, one may reach the point of thinking, "I'll say your stupid little prayer if you'll leave me alone." But few will truly be saved. 
If God is sovereign, then one must only hear the gospel message once in order to be saved. It sounds to me like you were driving everyone at work crazy by sharing the gospel with them over and over again rather than trusting the Holy Spirit to work in their lives. Once you've shared the gospel, just live the life and let God work from there. 
In fact, in my profession, I have had countless number of clients who have cussed in fronbt of me and quickly apologized, even though I had never felt led to share the gospel with them. They picked up on christianity through observing my conduct. I have also had clients who have asked me about the gospel or for guidance when going through hard times because they saw, through my lifestyle that I was a Christian. It's all about following God's leading and trusting in his sovereignty.


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## Pergamum

TimV said:


> Jared Hanley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah, you can witness with your lifestyle. But, they need to hear the Gospel. They won't be saved otherwise.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What you said earlier is what made many of us wonder. God doesn't need you.
Click to expand...



Unless God writes the Gospel across the sky or sends angels or gives us revelatory dreams, then humans are the means by which the Gospel will be spread. So, in a sense, the Lord needs us. They won't be saved unless God ordains that someone go to them.

---------- Post added at 07:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------





> There seems to be a common misperception that we must continually share the gospel until one is finally "saved." In fact, I have heard it said that one must hear the gospel 86 times before he will accept Christ (on average).



Of course this is no excuse to be tight-lipped about the Gospel.

---------- Post added at 07:29 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:28 AM ----------





> It is true that in one sense He doesn't need me. His missions enterprise will go forward whether I cooperate or not. No purpose of His can be thwarted. But, I think the life of William Carey shows that we can fall into an equal and opposite error; namely not recognizing our personal responsibility in the matter. There were those who told him "If God wants to save the heathen in India, He will do it without your help or mine."



Your zeal is commendable! Praise God for your holy desires.


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## jogri17

TimV said:


> What you said earlier is what made many of us wonder. God doesn't need you.


God choose to use secondary means. That exact argument is what the hyper calvinsits used to go against the great missionary movement of the 19th century.


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## Mushroom

God DOESN"T need us. He does however bless us with the privelege of being of use to Him in the harvest. The apostles were called and commanded to preach Christ, so the edict of the Sanhedrin was an unlawful command. You are not commanded to preach Christ. You are commanded to glorify Him in all your several callings. At the pizza joint that would entail working to the best of your ability to serve customers an excellent product and to submit to the authority of those set over you insofar as what they demand of you is lawful. Telling you to refrain from certain subjects in conversation so as to avoid workplace controversy is not an unlawful demand, and thus your means of glorifying your Lord, and thereby displaying the gospel, is to comply cheerfully. Usurpation is sin, whether by disobeying a lawful demand of an employer or assuming Church Offices we are not ordained unto. Declaring the gospel at the pizza joint during work time after being ordered not to would constitute both. Until you are called and commanded to preach the gospel, the demand is lawful.


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## Zach

Andres said:


> Jared Hanley said:
> 
> 
> 
> But what if you don't see those people outside of work? Some of them I don't even get a chance to see outside of work because they get there when I do and they leave before I do.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you get fired for being an insubordinate employee, then you'll really never get to see any of those people. Why don't you invite them to grab a cup of coffee or a burger or something (your treat) and then you can share the good news of Christ on your own time without the conflict of interest.
Click to expand...


This. It is a far more effective witness to invite your non-believing co-workers to hang out outside of work and then get to share the Gospel in a more personal setting anyway. When I "witness" at work, it only comes up when someone asks me a question. For me to be slicing deli meat while simultaneously preaching the Gospel would mean that my attention to both would be lacking and I would not do a good job at either.


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## Tripel

I can't believe there is even a debate on this issue.

Your boss is not asking you to sin, therefore you need to submit to his authority. Stop witnessing at work. End of discussion.

As others have said, if you have a burden for the souls of your coworkers there is nothing keeping you from asking them to meet outside of work to talk about the gospel.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

I agree totally with those that have you should not violate the lawful authority of your supervisor (a violation of the 5th Commandment). 

Another thing that has already has been stated is the notion of "role" when it comes to sharing the Gospel. There is a confusion of role and calling when we conflate Matthew 28, Romans 10, and 1 Peter 3.


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## Andres

Tripel said:


> I can't believe there is even a debate on this issue.



Well there really isn't. I believe only the OP, Jared, has taken the position that he should disobey his boss and continue to share his faith at work. I sincerely hope he takes the advice of some wise posts that advise him otherwise.


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## steadfast7

Jared, you're witnessing at work is a great thing. Keep it up and don't stop. Just be wise about the when and how.
I can't believe how much energy is going into protecting the sanctity of the Papa John's workplace and the grand honour of Jared's employer who himself needs the gospel desperately.

How about defending our brother Jared's conscience and anguish he feels about his colleagues dangling over the fires of hell like a spider over a candle flame? How about encouraging and giving him tips on sharing the gospel in ways where he doesn't waste time rather than telling him to quit altogether?

People can have conversations at work. This is not a sin. Even bosses chat. If your boss chats with you about the football game while standing at the water fountain together, don't ignore him and walk away for fear that you're stealing his time and money.

Unlike some, I don't think that being offensive or being a bad testimony in one's life is eternally detrimental to the salvation process in the slightest. Millions of true believers through the ages have been saved through the worst of gospel presentations delivered by the worst of people. So that is in no way an argument to refrain from preaching.

Jared, be strong and courageous.


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## Jared

Dennis Oh, are you related to Michael Oh by any chance?


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## AThornquist

General principles for you, brother:
1. Strive to be a Christian employee, the best employee you can be. You will be respected.
2. Strive to build relationships and friendships with your co-workers to bring them the Gospel on your own time.
3. If your co-workers ask you for the reason for the hope within you, tell them (if it will not affect your job performance). If your boss isn't in favor of even that, plan to tell your co-workers when you are off the clock. It's a delayed opportunity, not a lost one.
4. If your co-workers are speaking of worldviews or beliefs, don't be afraid to offer yours (if it will not affect your job performance). If you're not able or allowed to expound on what you mean, ask your inquiring co-worker if he would be willing to hear your explanation at another time when you are off the clock. 


I have applied these principles imperfectly but genuinely, and the Lord has _really_ blessed it.


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## Tripel

steadfast7 said:


> Jared, you're witnessing at work is a great thing. *Keep it up and don't stop. *Just be wise about the when and how.



His employer told him to stop. How can you argue in favor of disregarding an employer's instruction? Are we or are we not to submit to authority?


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## Jared

steadfast7 said:


> Jared, you're witnessing at work is a great thing. Keep it up and don't stop. Just be wise about the when and how.
> I can't believe how much energy is going into protecting the sanctity of the Papa John's workplace and the grand honour of Jared's employer who himself needs the gospel desperately.
> 
> How about defending our brother Jared's conscience and anguish he feels about his colleagues dangling over the fires of hell like a spider over a candle flame? How about encouraging and giving him tips on sharing the gospel in ways where he doesn't waste time rather than telling him to quit altogether?
> 
> People can have conversations at work. This is not a sin. Even bosses chat. If your boss chats with you about the football game while standing at the water fountain together, don't ignore him and walk away for fear that you're stealing his time and money.
> 
> Unlike some, I don't think that being offensive or being a bad testimony in one's life is eternally detrimental to the salvation process in the slightest. Millions of true believers through the ages have been saved through the worst of gospel presentations delivered by the worst of people. So that is in no way an argument to refrain from preaching.
> 
> Jared, be strong and courageous.



BTW: Thanks for the encouragement. I don't want to waste my employer's time or be a bad employee in any other way. I agree with you.


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## Todd King

The issue really isn't one of whether or not we can or should share the gospel in the workplace, whether or not the boss is okay with it. Certainly scripture does make it clear that servants are to joyfully serve their masters for testimony sake.
However, in the OP, Jared tells us that he has already shared the gospel with his co-workers. So the question then becomes one of whether or not we trust the Holy Spire, or whether we believe that it is us who do the saving. If the latter, then we must hound them until they give in. If the former, then we can witness through our lifestyle with a clean conscience.
That being said, if your boss allows coarse joking at work, then you can asl him to put a stop to it or to allow you to then witness once for every coarse joke. You can also share thoughts and life experiences when asked or it fits in with the conversation if you can do it without coming off as preachy.


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## Andres

steadfast7 said:


> How about defending our brother Jared's conscience and anguish he feels about his colleagues dangling over the fires of hell like a spider over a candle flame? How about encouraging and giving him tips on sharing the gospel in ways where he doesn't waste time rather than telling him to quit altogether?



How about not putting forth false assertions since others have not encouraged such? I don't find where anyone has told Jared not to be concerned about the salvation of his co-workers or to "give-up" on sharing the gospel altogether. Instead I find that Jared has been encouraged to continue to share his faith, but in a more appropriate setting where he will not be directly usurping the authority of his supervisor.


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## jogri17

All I'm going to say is that even in Buisnesses owned by Christians, I've seen cases where young men in all sincerity created a hostile work enviroment for other Christians (talking about baptism or predestination), non christians (trying to convert them either during work time or on breaks), and ignore work to read the Bible. Work is for work bottom line and it puts Christian bosses in an awkward posistion. My elder owns a buisness (not a papa johns, but a buisness all the same) and he has fired members of the congregation for being lazy and doing such things. You are not a missionary, not an evangelist, not a pastor, you are a pizza boy. Make your pizzas and if you get the opportunity to testify to Christ, great! but if not, that's not the end of the world.


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## Mushroom

At 19 I took a job in a factory that produced grain trailers. At first I was placed with a riveting crew of Texan Christians. They spent way too much time tsk-tsking everyone else there and in the world, or discussing the means whereby they'd burned their rock collections, & etc., and were very unproductive. I had just begun reading the bible when I took that job, and those guys drove me nuts with the way they robbed our employer to engage in 'christian' talk, as well as how slow it made the day go by. As a nascent believer, I could easily see how wrong that was. I could speak some Spanish, so I asked to be put on a hispanic crew, and the production speed was challenging and engaging. The days went by much faster. And everyone else on that factory floor had great fun mocking the lazy christians. Not very glorifying to the Lord.


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## steadfast7

Jared Hanley said:


> Dennis Oh, are you related to Michael Oh by any chance?


 Nope. I wish.



Tripel said:


> His employer told him to stop. How can you argue in favor of disregarding an employer's instruction? Are we or are we not to submit to authority?



The authorities told Peter and John to stop preaching Christ as well, and they ignored the order because there was a higher authority, and higher stakes, at play. Has anyone bothered to ask whether the boss has the right to issue such a command? Why is he doing so? Because it might cause disruption among the people? Because the gospel goes counter to the prevailing religion and culture? Sounds similar to the religious authorities' reasons.

---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 AM ----------




Andres said:


> steadfast7 said:
> 
> 
> 
> How about defending our brother Jared's conscience and anguish he feels about his colleagues dangling over the fires of hell like a spider over a candle flame? How about encouraging and giving him tips on sharing the gospel in ways where he doesn't waste time rather than telling him to quit altogether?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How about not putting forth false assertions since others have not encouraged such? I don't find where anyone has told Jared not to be concerned about the salvation of his co-workers or to "give-up" on sharing the gospel altogether. Instead I find that Jared has been encouraged to continue to share his faith, but in a more appropriate setting where he will not be directly usurping the authority of his supervisor.
Click to expand...


Andrew, I recognize that you were not one of the ones who suggested that Jared stop witnessing in his workplace, but by my rough count, at least 7 other posts (the majority) on this thread were clearly in the direction of submitting to his boss absolutely.

---------- Post added at 07:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 AM ----------

I think it might be helpful if we define what it means to "steal our employer's time." Do all minutes of an 8 hour work day need to be spent in pure uninterrupted work in order to satisfy our obligation as employees? Can anyone possibly obey this?

Can we not take a bathroom break, get a drink of water, check our email, chat with colleagues/bosses, take a phone call? I think these little moments are more than acceptable in most workplace settings, and bosses do not feel robbed. But of course it depends on the work. 

In these little moments, there are opportunities to speak truth and challenge people to consider their souls. I believe Jared would do very well to wisely use these moments to share the gospel with gentleness and respect. He most certainly should not be expected to blindly obey an order that goes against his conscience.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

With all do respect to the OP he is not an Apostle called by Christ. The comparison to Peter/John is ridiculous. 

The person-in-the-pew (or a lawfully-called Minister/Elder/Deacon) is not called to disrupt a place of business. That is a gross misunderstanding of 1 Peter 3.


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## Steve Curtis

Dennis,
It would be helpful if you interacted with the other posts that address the points you raise. First, Peter and John were commissioned by the Lord to preach. Jared has not identified such a call. Second, Peter and John were choosing to disobey a council to which they had not contracted to obey. By contrast, Jared has (willingly) entered into an agreement to work for someone who could tell him to get out just as simply as he could (by rights) determine how he should talk, dress, etc. when representing the business. Again, as has been stated, were the boss to demand conduct that violated the law of God, Jared would be right to choose rather to obey God. That is not the case, however.


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## Edward

Jared Hanley said:


> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.



I'm beginning to doubt that. With only a very few exceptions, the advice that you've been given has been essentially the same. It appears that you want vindication, not advice. And you haven't gotten much of that here.


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## Pergamum

Edward said:


> Jared Hanley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm beginning to doubt that. With only a very few exceptions, the advice that you've been given has been essentially the same. It appears that you want vindication, not advice. And you haven't gotten much of that here.
Click to expand...


Ouch, just because he doesn't jump behind the first 5 or 6 posts doesn't mean he is unteachable. This spiritual "diagnosis" shows a lack of generosity in your assessment.

---------- Post added at 02:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:10 AM ----------




Todd King said:


> The issue really isn't one of whether or not we can or should share the gospel in the workplace, whether or not the boss is okay with it. Certainly scripture does make it clear that servants are to joyfully serve their masters for testimony sake.
> However, in the OP, Jared tells us that he has already shared the gospel with his co-workers. So the question then becomes one of whether or not we trust the Holy Spire, or whether we believe that it is us who do the saving. If the latter, then we must hound them until they give in. If the former, then we can witness through our lifestyle with a clean conscience.
> That being said, if your boss allows coarse joking at work, then you can asl him to put a stop to it or to allow you to then witness once for every coarse joke. You can also share thoughts and life experiences when asked or it fits in with the conversation if you can do it without coming off as preachy.




I think this is an excellent point.

In most workplaces, the employees talk about a number of subjects while they work. If the boss forbids "Christian talk" but allows for coarse jesting and dirty stories, then this needs to be addressed. 

After all, few employees work completely in silence and void of some sort of social engagement at work. And most consider passing conversation (not sustained badgering), not as "stealing time" but as a normal part of work.

So, even while respecting the boss and working hard, you can still be a Christian and engage in talk as a Christian should, giving an answer fitting with the hope that lies in you. However, it sounds like the boss desires Christian employees not to badger or hound the others, and this is a fair request.

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steadfast7 said:


> Jared Hanley said:
> 
> 
> 
> Dennis Oh, are you related to Michael Oh by any chance?
> 
> 
> 
> Nope. I wish.
> 
> 
> 
> Tripel said:
> 
> 
> 
> His employer told him to stop. How can you argue in favor of disregarding an employer's instruction? Are we or are we not to submit to authority?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> The authorities told Peter and John to stop preaching Christ as well, and they ignored the order because there was a higher authority, and higher stakes, at play. Has anyone bothered to ask whether the boss has the right to issue such a command? Why is he doing so? Because it might cause disruption among the people? Because the gospel goes counter to the prevailing religion and culture? Sounds similar to the religious authorities' reasons.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:53 AM ----------
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andres said:
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> 
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> steadfast7 said:
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> 
> 
> How about defending our brother Jared's conscience and anguish he feels about his colleagues dangling over the fires of hell like a spider over a candle flame? How about encouraging and giving him tips on sharing the gospel in ways where he doesn't waste time rather than telling him to quit altogether?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How about not putting forth false assertions since others have not encouraged such? I don't find where anyone has told Jared not to be concerned about the salvation of his co-workers or to "give-up" on sharing the gospel altogether. Instead I find that Jared has been encouraged to continue to share his faith, but in a more appropriate setting where he will not be directly usurping the authority of his supervisor.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Andrew, I recognize that you were not one of the ones who suggested that Jared stop witnessing in his workplace, but by my rough count, at least 7 other posts (the majority) on this thread were clearly in the direction of submitting to his boss absolutely.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 07:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:02 AM ----------
> 
> I think it might be helpful if we define what it means to "steal our employer's time." Do all minutes of an 8 hour work day need to be spent in pure uninterrupted work in order to satisfy our obligation as employees? Can anyone possibly obey this?
> 
> Can we not take a bathroom break, get a drink of water, check our email, chat with colleagues/bosses, take a phone call? I think these little moments are more than acceptable in most workplace settings, and bosses do not feel robbed. But of course it depends on the work.
> 
> In these little moments, there are opportunities to speak truth and challenge people to consider their souls. I believe Jared would do very well to wisely use these moments to share the gospel with gentleness and respect. He most certainly should not be expected to blindly obey an order that goes against his conscience.
Click to expand...



Dennis,

I hope nobody on the board here advocates submitting to the boss "absolutely." I doubt if they do. 

However, given some very annoying Christians that go and hound people at work without gentleness and respect, while doing a shoddy job themselves, this has brought shame to the cause of Christ. Therefore, it is a legitimate expectation that a Christian employee not take company time for sustained witnessing, especially if the boss mentions it.

Now, it is true, indeed, that in most workplaces there are down times that people use to talk, drive to the work-site, etc. And certainly I would imagine that most people can talk and make a pizza at the same time such that said talking was not "time theft" but was healthy enjoyment that helped sustain a good work environment. 

So I agree with you , Dennis, on those points.


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## Edward

Pergamum said:


> Ouch, just because he doesn't jump behind the first 5 or 6 posts



More like 40. 




Pergamum said:


> This spiritual "diagnosis" shows a lack of generosity in your assessment.



My generally plain spoken approach has been known to give offense here. But clarity in communication can save a lot of time and energy. But since you disagree with my assessment, what is your more generous one? After all, you did make the point in two posts.


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## steadfast7

kainos01 said:


> Dennis,
> It would be helpful if you interacted with the other posts that address the points you raise. First, Peter and John were commissioned by the Lord to preach. Jared has not identified such a call. Second, Peter and John were choosing to disobey a council to which they had not contracted to obey. By contrast, Jared has (willingly) entered into an agreement to work for someone who could tell him to get out just as simply as he could (by rights) determine how he should talk, dress, etc. when representing the business. Again, as has been stated, were the boss to demand conduct that violated the law of God, Jared would be right to choose rather to obey God. That is not the case, however.



I think it's important to note that Jared (and others) may not share the view that one needs to be an ordained or licensed preacher to share the gospel outside of a church setting. I understand that this is the position of the Presbyterian and continental Reformed, but not of independent Calvinists and Particular Baptists. Jared belongs to a non-denominational church and has the right to not abide by strict Presbyterian guidelines - although this is a Presbyterian board, and we are all keeping that in mind.


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## Southern Presbyterian

*Moderation*

We're done here. Jared asked for advice and it has been given.


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