# Will you wear ORANGE on Saturday??



## Theogenes

How many of you will be wearing ORANGE on Saturday??
http://www.naylor.com.au/irish/will.htm
http://www.infoplease.com/spot/irishflag1.html

I have a great grandfather (Shannon) born in Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
I'm an Orangeman!  


Jim

Reactions: Like 1


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## Herald

Well, my ancestors were Scots, but I consider the Irish kin. Both are Gaelic. I'll be happy to wear Orange.


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## Scott Shahan

I'll be wearing green.  I am Irish, Shahan is an Irish name.


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## Theogenes

Bill,
One source I looked at said that the Scots would wear orange on St. Pat's day to protest against the green wearing Romanists. I'm Scottish too so I'll defintely be wearing the orange!

Scott: But are you Roman Catholic?? Irish Protestants wear the ORANGE!!
Jim

Reactions: Like 1


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## Blueridge Believer

I guess I'll have to wear orange now!


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## Scott Shahan

wow, I have never heard that before. Where did you find that out?


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## Kevin

Scott Shahan said:


> I'll be wearing green.  I am Irish, Shahan is an Irish name.



Shame!!


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## Kevin

Orangeman here as well.

LONG LIVE KING BILLY!!!!


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## Scott Shahan

Why haven't I ever heard about this "orange" thing before????


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## BobVigneault

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Institution


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## Kevin

Scott Shahan said:


> Why haven't I ever heard about this "orange" thing before????



I dunno. Did you use to live under a rock? 

Welcome to the sonlight brother!


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## Herald

Jim Snyder said:


> Bill,
> One source I looked at said that the Scots would wear orange on St. Pat's day to protest against the green wearing Romanists. I'm Scottish too so I'll defintely be wearing the orange!



Jim - do you happen to know what clan you descend from? Robertson clan here.


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## Blueridge Believer

BobVigneault said:


> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Institution




Good read brother. I didn't like the freemason stuff though. In my mind I equate it as bad as the Rome.


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## Poimen

Orange? House of Orange? Oranje? Yes!


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## Pergamum

Okay, I cannot observe the day chosen to honor the birth of Christ on December 25th, but I can wear some orange outfits?


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## Theogenes

Bill,
We think we have roots in a couple of different clans. The Burns clan, the Gunn clann and maybe the Campbell clan. Apparently my family got around... 
Jim


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## jaybird0827

Absolutely. My mother was a Flynn, but, praise the Lord, she became Protestant when my oldest sister came along.


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## Theogenes

When I was a kid and wanted to wear green on March 17th, my dad would say "You can't wear green, you have to wear orange because we're Protestants!.. I think I was the only kid wearing orange and not wearing green!  
Jim


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## Kevin

trevorjohnson said:


> Okay, I cannot observe the day chosen to honor the birth of Christ on December 25th, but I can wear some orange outfits?



Yes.

And you can celebrate xmas IF you do it while wearing orange!


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## Pergamum

Can I have an orange tree then, or is that pushing it...??



..On another subject: 

I read that the terms redneck and hillbilly were from these orangemen? Any additional info?


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## Theogenes

Trevor,
The rednecks originated from the Scottish Covenanters!.... 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck


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## Kevin

trevorjohnson said:


> Can I have an orange tree then, or is that pushing it...??
> 
> 
> 
> ..On another subject:
> 
> I read that the terms redneck and hillbilly were from these orangemen? Any additional info?



"Hillbilly" is supposed to be derived from the popular "Billy Boy" as a nickname for protestants (presbyterians).

"Redneck" is often claimed to be a nickname for covenanters because they were supposed to wear red scarves as a sign that they had signed the SL&C.

Both are very plausable. I would like to know what the OED said before I was convinced 100%.


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## Richard King

Okay watch for me in a nice day glo orange hunting cap.

My people are from Scotland but the interesting footnote in the bit of family history I have is they moved to Ireland and lived there for nearly 100 years and according to our records all we know is this statement regarding the move... 
"no good ever came of it". 
I find that hilarious economy of words.
After no good came of it an ancestor named Richard King moved to America.
He landed in Jersey and his offspring soon headed south to North Carolina and they waited till God made Texas.

Anyway, I am the type to wear orange just to aggravate. It is the only sport I am fit for anymore.


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## govols

Man, I wear orange all of the time !


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## Theoretical

Awesome, I can buck the trend! I never knew about wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day.

Ironically, UTD's colors are green and orange, so apparently we support Evangelicals and Catholics Together


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## jaybird0827

Theoretical said:


> ...
> Ironically, UTD's colors are green and orange, so apparently we support Evangelicals and Catholics Together


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## MrMerlin777

I will wear neither.


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## Ravens

Anglo-Saxon here.

The only difference we noticed between Ireland and Scotland consisted in scraping something off the left foot, as opposed to the right; at the end of the day, we just knew we had been steppin' around all over the place.

   

Just playin' kids, put down all those Gaelic cap-guns that are aimed at me.


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## jaybird0827

Bog trotter, flannel mouth, shanty, or lace curtain?


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## SRoper

To those considering wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially to those who have never heard of the practice before), be aware that it is considered by many to be at least in bad taste if not extremely offensive.


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## ChristianTrader

SRoper said:


> To those considering wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially to those who have never heard of the practice before), be aware that it is considered by many to be at least in bad taste if not extremely offensive.



Interesting, Do you know why it is considered offensive?

CT


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## MrMerlin777

Hermonta, I believe it has somthing to do with the Protestant/Catholic violence in Ireland.


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## Kevin

ChristianTrader said:


> Interesting, Do you know why it is considered offensive?
> 
> CT



Because they hate us.

The republican side gets better press in the US so the version most Americans know of the struggle of our people is from our enemies.

In that version our "brave lads" are all made out to be bigots.

But I say "Damn the republic, God save the Union, & Long Live King Billy"


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## Kevin

SRoper said:


> To those considering wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially to those who have never heard of the practice before), be aware that it is considered by many to be at least in bad taste if not extremely offensive.



It is also considered in very bad taste to wear green if you are protestant, but millions of Americans do it every year.


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## calgal

Orange will NOT be worn in this house (Dh is a Calvin alum and the rival RCA school Hope wears Orange and Blue.....). His Frisian and Groningen ancestors would approve since Hope is evil!  The dog will wear a red collar so that makes him a redneck pup!


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## BertMulder

Nothing against orange, especially being a Dutchman, but no use to add to sectarian violence without any cause whatsoever.


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## ChristianTrader

BertMulder said:


> Nothing against orange, especially being a Dutchman, but no use to add to sectarian violence without any cause whatsoever.



But would you wear green? Or are you advocating neutral colors? I'm currently leaning neutral (yeah a Van Tillian, CR advocating the neutral position)

CT


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## ADKing

Jim Snyder said:


> How many of you will be wearing ORANGE on Saturday??
> http://www.naylor.com.au/irish/will.htm
> http://www.infoplease.com/spot/irishflag1.html
> 
> I have a great grandfather (Shannon) born in Londonderry, Northern Ireland.
> I'm an Orangeman!
> 
> 
> Jim



I understand the desire to identify with Protestantism! Nevertheless, the Orange Order is a society that has many problems. Just because one is Protestant does NOT mean that he should be affiliated with the Orangemen. Consider the following from the Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland...

_THE ORANGE ORDER

The Orange Order recognises the need for a faithful witness against the errors of Roman Catholicism and that all true Protestants should be united in their faith. Nonetheless, the first three reasons mentioned above (Unscriptural secrecy, unlawful oaths, unsocial benevolence) can be cited against membership in the Orange Order. In addition, we believe that the Orange Order is in error because:-

(a) it usurps the place of the Church

God has ordained the Church as His instrument in the world for the defence of the Faith and the propagation of the Gospel. Scripture teaches that "the Church of the Living God" is the "pillar and foundation of the truth." The existence of a secret society which claims to have this authority of Christ, the Church's King and Head;

(b) of its political emphasis

The Orange Order lays great stress on the political aspect of the Revolution Settlement of 1688. By doing so it fails to acknowledge the Kingship of Christ over the nation. It was precisely because the Revolution Settlement did not acknowledge either Christ's Kingship or the doctrines of the Second Reformation that Covenanters stood aside from it;

(c) of its unqualified allegiance to the British Constitution

In becoming a member of the Order a person commits himself to support and maintain the British Constitution and the Laws of the Nation. Such allegiance denies the Crown rights of King Jesus whose kingly rule is not acknowledged by this Constitution and whose authority is flouted by unbiblical laws.

For these reasons it is inconsistent for Christians to identify with this Order.

The Reformed Presbyterian Church believes that the Christian should not become a member of an oath-bound secret society. It strongly affirms that Christians are called to show benevolence to all men (Gal.6:10), to enjoy true fellowship (1John 1:3), and to bear a faithful witness in the world (Acts 1:8). This must be done in a way which God has directed and which will honour His Son, Jesus Christ._

Maybe we should consider wearing covenanter blue. Or better yet, avoid making political/religious statements by the colors we wear!!


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## MrMerlin777

ADKing said:


> I understand the desire to identify with Protestantism! Nevertheless, the Orange Order is a society that has many problems. Just because one is Protestant does NOT mean that he should be affiliated with the Orangemen. Consider the following from the Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland...
> 
> _THE ORANGE ORDER
> 
> The Orange Order recognises the need for a faithful witness against the errors of Roman Catholicism and that all true Protestants should be united in their faith. Nonetheless, the first three reasons mentioned above (Unscriptural secrecy, unlawful oaths, unsocial benevolence) can be cited against membership in the Orange Order. In addition, we believe that the Orange Order is in error because:-
> 
> (a) it usurps the place of the Church
> 
> God has ordained the Church as His instrument in the world for the defence of the Faith and the propagation of the Gospel. Scripture teaches that "the Church of the Living God" is the "pillar and foundation of the truth." The existence of a secret society which claims to have this authority of Christ, the Church's King and Head;
> 
> (b) of its political emphasis
> 
> The Orange Order lays great stress on the political aspect of the Revolution Settlement of 1688. By doing so it fails to acknowledge the Kingship of Christ over the nation. It was precisely because the Revolution Settlement did not acknowledge either Christ's Kingship or the doctrines of the Second Reformation that Covenanters stood aside from it;
> 
> (c) of its unqualified allegiance to the British Constitution
> 
> In becoming a member of the Order a person commits himself to support and maintain the British Constitution and the Laws of the Nation. Such allegiance denies the Crown rights of King Jesus whose kingly rule is not acknowledged by this Constitution and whose authority is flouted by unbiblical laws.
> 
> For these reasons it is inconsistent for Christians to identify with this Order.
> 
> The Reformed Presbyterian Church believes that the Christian should not become a member of an oath-bound secret society. It strongly affirms that Christians are called to show benevolence to all men (Gal.6:10), to enjoy true fellowship (1John 1:3), and to bear a faithful witness in the world (Acts 1:8). This must be done in a way which God has directed and which will honour His Son, Jesus Christ._
> 
> Maybe we should consider wearing covenanter blue. Or better yet, avoid making political/religious statements by the colors we wear!!



Well said.


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## BertMulder

From our friends in Ballymena, Northern Ireland, 

The Real Saint Patrick


http://www.cprf.co.uk/articles/stpatrick.htm#VI


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## govols

Wouldn't you wear all white as in the Irish flag, bringing the two together?


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## Ambrose

SRoper said:


> To those considering wearing orange on St. Patrick's Day (especially to those who have never heard of the practice before), be aware that it is considered by many to be at least in bad taste if not extremely offensive.



OK, you convinced me!


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## AV1611

*Some news *

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/5169742.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3027256.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/3060021.stm

*historical*

http://www.guardian.co.uk/northernireland/page/0,,1569841,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/1422212.stm


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## VirginiaHuguenot

ADKing said:


> I understand the desire to identify with Protestantism! Nevertheless, the Orange Order is a society that has many problems. Just because one is Protestant does NOT mean that he should be affiliated with the Orangemen. Consider the following from the Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland...
> 
> _THE ORANGE ORDER
> 
> The Orange Order recognises the need for a faithful witness against the errors of Roman Catholicism and that all true Protestants should be united in their faith. Nonetheless, the first three reasons mentioned above (Unscriptural secrecy, unlawful oaths, unsocial benevolence) can be cited against membership in the Orange Order. In addition, we believe that the Orange Order is in error because:-
> 
> (a) it usurps the place of the Church
> 
> God has ordained the Church as His instrument in the world for the defence of the Faith and the propagation of the Gospel. Scripture teaches that "the Church of the Living God" is the "pillar and foundation of the truth." The existence of a secret society which claims to have this authority of Christ, the Church's King and Head;
> 
> (b) of its political emphasis
> 
> The Orange Order lays great stress on the political aspect of the Revolution Settlement of 1688. By doing so it fails to acknowledge the Kingship of Christ over the nation. It was precisely because the Revolution Settlement did not acknowledge either Christ's Kingship or the doctrines of the Second Reformation that Covenanters stood aside from it;
> 
> (c) of its unqualified allegiance to the British Constitution
> 
> In becoming a member of the Order a person commits himself to support and maintain the British Constitution and the Laws of the Nation. Such allegiance denies the Crown rights of King Jesus whose kingly rule is not acknowledged by this Constitution and whose authority is flouted by unbiblical laws.
> 
> For these reasons it is inconsistent for Christians to identify with this Order.
> 
> The Reformed Presbyterian Church believes that the Christian should not become a member of an oath-bound secret society. It strongly affirms that Christians are called to show benevolence to all men (Gal.6:10), to enjoy true fellowship (1John 1:3), and to bear a faithful witness in the world (Acts 1:8). This must be done in a way which God has directed and which will honour His Son, Jesus Christ._
> 
> Maybe we should consider wearing covenanter blue. Or better yet, avoid making political/religious statements by the colors we wear!!



 See my comments on this subject from last year here.


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## bwsmith

How would wearing orange accomplish the Gospel of peace to which we are called?


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## Richard King

Okay I have solved this


I am in greenish Carhartt overalls, a white t shirt, and an orange hunting cap

Hence I have covered all the bases for colors o' the day AND retained a decidedly overall redneck look.

Style with substance...thats what they'll say when they see me !


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## jaybird0827

*Greetings!*







The wearin' of the orange!


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## toddpedlar

Kevin said:


> "Hillbilly" is supposed to be derived from the popular "Billy Boy" as a nickname for protestants (presbyterians).
> 
> "Redneck" is often claimed to be a nickname for covenanters because they were supposed to wear red scarves as a sign that they had signed the SL&C.
> 
> Both are very plausable. I would like to know what the OED said before I was convinced 100%.



According to the OED, the first usage is 1830, referring to Presbyterians in the US. There's nothing any earlier than that.



> 1. U.S. a. A member of the white rural labouring class of the southern States; one whose attitudes are considered characteristic of this class; freq., a reactionary.
> Originally, and still often, derogatory, but now also used with more sympathy for the aspirations of the rural American.
> 
> 1830 A. ROYALL Southern Tour I. 148 This may be ascribed to the Red Necks, a name bestowed upon the Presbyterians in Fayetteville.
> 1893 H. A. SHANDS Some Peculiarities of Speech in Mississippi 53 Red-neck,..a name applied by the better class of people to the poorer inhabitants of the rural districts.
> 1904 Dialect Notes II. 420 Redneck, n., An uncouth countryman. ‘The hill-billies came from the hills, and the rednecks from the swamps.’
> 1913 J. DAVIS Life & Speeches iii. 42 If you red-necks or hill billies ever come to Little Rock be sure and come to see me{em}come to my house.
> 1936 W. FAULKNER Absalom, Absalom! 122 Rich and poor, aristocrat and redneck.
> 1959 Times Lit. Suppl. 28 Aug. 491/4 The ugly faces and, under prompting or provocation, the uglier actions of a handful of red-necks, crackers, tar-heels and other poor white trash here and there in the South.
> 1960 Spectator 15 Jan. 83/2 The old patrician families who are opposed to the graft, blackmail and demagogy by which the Boss, the tribune of the rednecks, keeps himself in power.
> 1969 Observer 7 Dec. 25/3 They [sc. communes] all shared two experiences: the search for new values, and attention from local rednecks and the police.
> 1971 J. BISHOP Days of Martin Luther King, Jr. IV. 329 The fearful Southern red-neck, committed to the credo that the black man is a bridge between the animal kingdom and the human, derided the speech as typical ‘coon shouting’.
> 1973 Black World Mar. 56 Carload of rednecks came with the darkness to Slim's house. Blew the horn until Slim's daddy opened the door.
> 1975 Daily Tel. 15 Oct. 17/7 Was it because they might think his [sc. Govenor George Wallace's] reputation as a Right-wing ‘red neck’ a political embarrassment?
> 1976 Time 27 Sept. 47/1 That was the point Carter was attempting to make when he said in 1970 that Maddox ‘has compassion for the little man’, and when he said that a Humphrey-Wallace ticket in 1972 ‘would do well in the South’, and when he called himself ‘basically a redneck’.
> 1977 D. JAMES Spy at Evening x. 71 Middle-class rednecks like you..get all worked up about it.
> 1978 J. UPDIKE Coup v. 192 Her momma's a washrag and her daddy's a redneck.


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## toddpedlar

bwsmith said:


> How would wearing orange accomplish the Gospel of peace to which we are called?



It does give you an opportunity to explain why you're not wearing green, and (with humility and grace) explain the truth of the Gospel to your hearer.


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## S. Spence

> I understand the desire to identify with Protestantism! Nevertheless, the Orange Order is a society that has many problems. Just because one is Protestant does NOT mean that he should be affiliated with the Orangemen. Consider the following from the Testimony of the Reformed Presbyterian Church of Ireland...
> 
> THE ORANGE ORDER
> 
> The Orange Order recognises the need for a faithful witness against the errors of Roman Catholicism and that all true Protestants should be united in their faith. Nonetheless, the first three reasons mentioned above (Unscriptural secrecy, unlawful oaths, unsocial benevolence) can be cited against membership in the Orange Order. In addition, we believe that the Orange Order is in error because:-
> 
> (a) it usurps the place of the Church
> 
> God has ordained the Church as His instrument in the world for the defence of the Faith and the propagation of the Gospel. Scripture teaches that "the Church of the Living God" is the "pillar and foundation of the truth." The existence of a secret society which claims to have this authority of Christ, the Church's King and Head;
> 
> (b) of its political emphasis
> 
> The Orange Order lays great stress on the political aspect of the Revolution Settlement of 1688. By doing so it fails to acknowledge the Kingship of Christ over the nation. It was precisely because the Revolution Settlement did not acknowledge either Christ's Kingship or the doctrines of the Second Reformation that Covenanters stood aside from it;
> 
> (c) of its unqualified allegiance to the British Constitution
> 
> In becoming a member of the Order a person commits himself to support and maintain the British Constitution and the Laws of the Nation. Such allegiance denies the Crown rights of King Jesus whose kingly rule is not acknowledged by this Constitution and whose authority is flouted by unbiblical laws.
> 
> For these reasons it is inconsistent for Christians to identify with this Order.
> 
> The Reformed Presbyterian Church believes that the Christian should not become a member of an oath-bound secret society. It strongly affirms that Christians are called to show benevolence to all men (Gal.6:10), to enjoy true fellowship (1John 1:3), and to bear a faithful witness in the world (Acts 1:8). This must be done in a way which God has directed and which will honour His Son, Jesus Christ.
> 
> Maybe we should consider wearing covenanter blue. Or better yet, avoid making political/religious statements by the colors we wear!!




As someone from N. Ireland, I think Adam has summed it up well.


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## Scott Shahan

So does all of this mean I can go back to wearing Green again??


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## ReformedWretch

> Or better yet, avoid making political/religious statements by the colors we wear!!



*AMEN!!* Or as Admiral Adama would say.."So say we all!"


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## jaybird0827

> Or better yet, avoid making political/religious statements by the colors we wear!!


 


houseparent said:


> *AMEN!!* Or as Admiral Adama would say.."So say we all!"


 
 

Do you think these same people would advocate not wearing red and green between late November and December?


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## Kevin

toddpedlar said:


> It does give you an opportunity to explain why you're not wearing green, and (with humility and grace) explain the truth of the Gospel to your hearer.



 

Thanks for the OED quote. BTW where did you find it? Is it on-line?


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## Kevin

jaybird0827 said:


> The wearin' of the orange!



I am trying not to covet your sweater!


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## Kevin

Richard King said:


> Okay I have solved this
> 
> 
> I am in greenish Carhartt overalls, a white t shirt, and an orange hunting cap
> 
> Hence I have covered all the bases for colors o' the day AND retained a decidedly overall redneck look.
> 
> Style with substance...thats what they'll say when they see me !



 I wore an orange ball cap with a camo brim and the Remington logo


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## bwsmith

toddpedlar said:


> It does give you an opportunity to explain why you're not wearing green, and (with humility and grace) explain the truth of the Gospel to your hearer.



How would you describe the colors of green and 
orange in terms of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?


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## Kevin

bwsmith said:


> How would you describe the colors of green and
> orange in terms of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?



I use it as an opportunity to explain the signifigance of the struggle for religious freedom. It usually starts with"hey, why aren't you wearing green?" 

I reply that I am not wearing green because I am a christian who believes in the freedom to worship God the way the scriptures teach. I then explain how the protestants were persecuted for their faith and the men who gather to defend their homes and families called themselves "orangemen" after the king Wm of Orange who was defending their rights.

I then make some kind of self-depricating joke about not asking simple question to history majors when they are drinking beer. Then they say something like "No, keep going this is interesting I have never heard about this before. I thought everyone wore green, you know because of St Patrick and all that."

Then I give a brief overview of St Pat's live and tell a few of the more dramatic stories from his life and then I start to talk about how the entire nation was changed at all levels, personal, families, culture etc as a result of the gospel. This gives an opportunity to ask "Did you ever wonder how something as simple as an Idea about a person (Jesus Christ) could change an entire country?"

At least that is my plan. I sometimes don't get all the way into it, and that is OK. I am not selling insurence here I am just trying to use an everyday occasion to get into the gospel.

BTW at the pub saturday night I was given a green t-shirt


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## bwsmith

How would you describe the colors of green and orange in terms of the Gospel of Jesus Christ?



Kevin said:


> I use it as an opportunity to explain the signifigance of the struggle for religious freedom. It usually starts with"hey, why aren't you wearing green?"
> 
> I reply that I am not wearing green because I am a christian who believes in the freedom to worship God the way the scriptures teach. I then explain how the protestants were persecuted for their faith and the men who gather to defend their homes and families called themselves "orangemen" after the king Wm of Orange who was defending their rights.
> 
> I then make some kind of self-depricating joke about not asking simple question to history majors when they are drinking beer. Then they say something like "No, keep going this is interesting I have never heard about this before. I thought everyone wore green, you know because of St Patrick and all that."
> 
> Then I give a brief overview of St Pat's live and tell a few of the more dramatic stories from his life and then I start to talk about how the entire nation was changed at all levels, personal, families, culture etc as a result of the gospel. This gives an opportunity to ask "Did you ever wonder how something as simple as an Idea about a person (Jesus Christ) could change an entire country?"
> 
> At least that is my plan. I sometimes don't get all the way into it, and that is OK. I am not selling insurence here I am just trying to use an everyday occasion to get into the gospel.
> 
> BTW at the pub saturday night I was given a green t-shirt



Having read a bit of Irish history, I wonder how you use that to promote the Gospel?


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## Kevin

I refer the honourable member to the reply I gave some moments ago.


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