# Visiting other Churches: Adultery



## ww

I've read here before that visiting another church while having membership in a particular church is like committing adultery. Well I must admit that I carry some guilt for doing just that as of late. 

The Church where I and my wife are currently members has moved from a location which was far enough for us to travel but being Reformed Presbyterian my wife and I thought was our only choice (we came to find out later such was not the case) to an even further location which takes us about 45 minutes one way to get there. It is not in our local community by any means but I'm sure folks travel much further to attend a faithful church than we do. 

We just discovered about 3 weeks ago that an OPC Mission Church has been established in our local community about 8 miles from our House which started as a Bible Study back in November of last year. My Wife and I travel an hour to work in traffic one way daily as it is and would like one day a week where we can actually worship in our local community so when we heard of the OPC Mission we were really encouraged. This Mission is in the process of calling an organizing Pastor in the next month or so. 

But these are all good reasons for wanting to worship locally however there are probably a few more reasons if I were to be honest:

1) A desire to reach those in my local community.

2) Being edified locally and fellowshipping with those who live and work in my local community.

3) The RPW! (I'm finding that I am coming to a more traditional view of how the RPW is applied as well as how the Reformed Faith is lived out in the life of the Church and there are some differences in that regard). I'm not saying the church where my wife and I are members does not follow the RPW as a matter of fact they most certainly do but not in the same way that I understand it or prefer. 

With that all said I have notified my Pastor and Session where my wife and I hold Membership and the Local Session of the Church that we are now attending that it is our desire to continue worshipping at the church here locally and if God leads and our Membership Church Session concurs to eventually transfer our Membership.

Does anyone see a problem with that? Is there an issue with my line of thinking? Am I taking my Membership vows seriously?

Appreciate whatever thoughts one way or the other about our most recent decision.


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## brothermiller

I have never heard fellowship with other members of the body of Christ is spiritual adultery.I guess there is a first for everything and not all food is easy to chew.

God bless.


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## Ivan

If you have spoken to your present Pastor about it I think you are heading in the right direction.

What was he response, if I may ask?


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## ww

Ivan said:


> If you have spoken to your present Pastor about it I think you are heading in the right direction.
> 
> What was he response, if I may ask?



No response yet Ivan as I notifed him via Email today and am awaiting his response. I offered to meet with him for lunch to discuss if he would like to do so. He and I meet for lunch every other month or so for fellowship so made the offer if he is so inclined.


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## Pilgrim

Wayne,

I personally don't see anything wrong with what you are doing, especially since you have notified your session. I think it's important to worship in a church that is in the community in which you live, and that's one reason for my wife and I attending where we are now as opposed to some other churches that are 25 or more miles away. After attending for a while, we find we are more in agreement with their stance than some of the others as well.


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## Ivan

whitway said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have spoken to your present Pastor about it I think you are heading in the right direction.
> 
> What was he response, if I may ask?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No response yet Ivan as I notifed him via Email today and am awaiting his response. I offered to meet with him for lunch to discuss if he would like to do so. He and I meet for lunch every other month or so for fellowship so made the offer if he is so inclined.
Click to expand...


Along with what Chris said, if makes sense that you worship at a church in the community where you live. I'm sure the mission church can use your help. And as far as I'm concerned the price of fuel is an issue too.


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## Grace Alone

We did that exact thing several years ago. Certainly it is better to worship in your own community as long as there is an acceptable reformed church. We are now members of a church 25 minutes away, and our hope is to move closer within the next two years.


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## ww

Ivan said:


> whitway said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> 
> If you have spoken to your present Pastor about it I think you are heading in the right direction.
> 
> What was he response, if I may ask?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No response yet Ivan as I notifed him via Email today and am awaiting his response. I offered to meet with him for lunch to discuss if he would like to do so. He and I meet for lunch every other month or so for fellowship so made the offer if he is so inclined.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Along with what Chris said, if makes sense that you worship at a church in the community where you live. I'm sure the mission church can use your help. And as far as I'm concerned the price of fuel is an issue too.
Click to expand...


Interesting observation regarding fuel costs. Thanks Ivan!


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## Presbyterian Deacon

I believe your local church should be LOCAL. There is nothing wrong with leaving your present church to assist a mission church in your local area.


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## brothermiller

Ever heard of a book called Exposing Spiritual Abuse by Mike Fehlauer?

Very interesting indeed.


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## Scott1

It sounds like you are approaching this conscientiously, and you are to be commended for this.

Biblically, there is nothing wrong with visiting other churches while your membership is elsewhere per se. But, if it is bothering you, you must flush that out in prayer and see if God has given you a conviction or you are violating something else.

Church hopping, as a pattern, practically (getting into more opinion on this) makes it hard for a church to function, reduces connectivity, accountability, and tends to reflect either poor teaching or lack of maturity, or both. The Bible teaches that the body of Christ and the local church is more than a loose association of consenting adults. It is a place for discipline, accountability, and learning to get along, and serving, for God's Honor and Glory.

Making a change is sometimes necessary if you are really seeking God and intend to try and stabilize, not merely "hop" to avoid accountability or service or discipline, etc. Also, remember we are not supposed to be looking for perfection or even following one person as leader (all this is very hard to do, but by God's grace we charged with doing this). If we are head of the family, we have added responsibility in this.

The OPC is also a fine denomination, generally very close to the PCA.

If you are finding something significant objectionable in your local church (e.g. going 100% contemporary music), biblically you must make your concern known, probably to the Session, give them time to respond, be charitable. 

These things are all hard to do but God will honor obedience. Be faithful.


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## brothermiller

Should leaders in the Church have control over what you eat who to marry where you work ect?


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## VictorBravo

brothermiller said:


> Should leaders in the Church have control over what you eat who to marry where you work ect?



No. I don't think anybody has suggested this.


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## Simply_Nikki

I thought spiritual adultery was given in the context of Old Testament Israel worshipping other gods while worshipping God almighty at the same time, thereby committing adultery against God.

And what of people who are members of other churches but travel or go to school in a different city, state or country? I'm technically a member of my family's church back in L.A., but it's so small there is no formal membership process, and the same is true for the church I am attending now in Tucson. What then? Or what if there are no "local" churches that are solidly biblical reformed churches? Obviously one would have to travel whatever distance it costs to find a biblically sound church or just suffer the unbiblicity of an unsound church for the sake of some sort of fellowship.


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## ww

Scott1 said:


> It sounds like you are approaching this conscientiously, and you are to be commended for this.
> 
> Biblically, there is nothing wrong with visiting other churches while your membership is elsewhere per se. But, if it is bothering you, you must flush that out in prayer and see if God has given you a conviction or you are violating something else.
> 
> Church hopping, as a pattern, practically (getting into more opinion on this) makes it hard for a church to function, reduces connectivity, accountability, and tends to reflect either poor teaching or lack of maturity, or both. The Bible teaches that the body of Christ and the local church is more than a loose association of consenting adults. It is a place for discipline, accountability, and learning to get along, and serving, for God's Honor and Glory.
> 
> Making a change is sometimes necessary if you are really seeking God and intend to try and stabilize, not merely "hop" to avoid accountability or service or discipline, etc. Also, remember we are not supposed to be looking for perfection or even following one person as leader (all this is very hard to do, but by God's grace we charged with doing this). If we are head of the family, we have added responsibility in this.
> 
> The OPC is also a fine denomination, generally very close to the PCA.
> 
> If you are finding something significant objectionable in your local church (e.g. going 100% contemporary music), biblically you must make your concern known, probably to the Session, give them time to respond, be charitable.
> 
> These things are all hard to do but God will honor obedience. Be faithful.




No Scott! Not Church Hopping nor looking for the Perfect Church, if I was I wouldn't have committed to Membership. I hope I was clear (and forgive me if I was not) that the primary reason was due to distance and going to a LOCAL church, although the application of the RPW makes it easier for me, it was not the driver (the driving was) of the decision to worship in my LOCAL community. I appreciate the insight.


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## ww

By the way I noticed Pergamum thanked you for your post Scott but hasn't commented however it was your quote Pergamum that I used to kick of this discussion. I would be interested in your thoughts if you would be willing to share them.


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## Pergamum

whitway said:


> By the way I noticed Pergamum thanked you for your post Scott but hasn't commented however it was your quote Pergamum that I used to kick of this discussion. I would be interested in your thoughts if you would be willing to share them.



Oh. Yikes, what quote was that?

I have perhaps been a little contrarian of late, so maybe I should pull back a bit. 

I think in a past post (maybe a week or two ago) I might have expressed that this idea was sillly (the idea that visiting another church was spiritual adultery).



My thoughts are:

--Churches ideally should be "local" churches.

--All Christians are brothers and therefore visiting other Christian churches is "staying in the family" To accuse someone of spiritual adultery can only be done if they went to a Jehovah's Witness congregation of a false church.

In short, the spiritual adultery charge, unless one visits a false charge, is highly hyperbolic and almost silly.

--Cross-pollination of local churches is a good thing. We know several small local churches that have "visitation Sundays' were whole churches go to a neighboring like-minded church and visits. Guest speakers and pulpit exchanges once every 2 months or so are also good ideas (if one can find a preacher that is solid enough to trust them in your pulpit),

--I am still not convinced that local church membership (putting your name on a roll and obligating someone to stay committed to THAT local church) is Biblical. We see believers meeting in houses in the New Testament and others who were itenarant. We should all meet together, but there seems to be freedom to travel about.

-What exactly is a membership vow and why should they be made or taken seriously? I know many baptist churches that work a lot of addd-ons into their church covenants, such as no partaking or selling alcoholic beverages.

---I am not sure how biblical even "joining a church" is. We ought to unite with fellow believers when one is saved and ought to hook ourselves into a network of beleivers, but "officially joining" a local church, being put on a membership roll, becoming a voting member, etc are all extrapolations that may or may not be valid. I support the general idea, by the way, but all the details are not clear. I think much is tradition and that some variance is allowable.

--I am all for faithfulness to the body of Christ, however. THis is most easily expressed in faithfulness to a local group of believers who know and love one another. This is love based and not rule-based (you are OUR members), however.

---Also, some couples need to move on to other churches. 

I love many grace folks, and I love solid churches, but I know many small, single -pastor grace churches where the pastor likes certain subjects and these faithful men pastor for 40 years in the same pulpit. 

The people only grow as much as the pastor grows. 

In today's trend of declining pulpit times (the average pastorate maybe being less than 4 years a pastorate) many of our churches have condemend the practice of pulpit-hopping. That is good. 

But, new people and more input into people's lives often means more growth and broader views on things. 

Sometimes we can get insulated and not realize that the church is bigger than we think. 

If we have spent 30 years in a small church with a single pastor who preaches on a limited range of topics. I know several families right now that are agonizing because they would like to get some fresh teaching and go visit other churches once every 2 months, but this would stir up controversy and so they wither under monotanous teaching by faithful (yet limited) men. 

I know right now two families that have switched to other churches because they just "needed a change" in order to grow. They tried to depart nicely. The preachers were good. But the preachers often preached on the same thing (7 years in the book of Romans is a little taxing). They would have desired to merely visit another church once every 4-6 weeks, but the mere expression of this desire was the first rock in an avalanche of accusations of unfaithfulness and this family felt like they either had to put up and shut up and notbe absent or else just leave. I think if the church was interested in this family's personal growth rather than retaining warm butts in seats than they would have retained this family and not acused them of "unfaithfulness."


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## ww

> Or, is it okay to visit other church with family (had a preacher say that this was akin to cheating on a wife).



Actually it wasn't your quote but a thread you started regarding Church Membership where you mentioned what another preacher had said sorry for scaring you. 

I do appreciate your thoughts and I am truly not qualified enough to adequately defend from Scripture a Requirement of Church Membership however I can truly say that being a Member of a Church has been more of a Blessing to me than when I was not.


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## Scott1

Also, I don't think we could call going to another Christian Church, under any circumstances, "spiritual adultery." 

Nikki alluded to this in her post.

If you joined a non-Christian Church (the analogy of Israel going after other Gods), maybe that would apply.

You have a practical problem here, one God calls you to face with faith. I wouldn't over-spiritualize it. 

I would encourage you to work with the worship item of concern where you have been attending. Worship is very important in the Bible and to Reformed Christians. Ordinarily, the PCA system allows a lot of avenues for input and influence by layman.

I'm sure there are many church leaders, missionaries, and church planters who would greatly value someone such as you, who approaches membership so conscientiously, in their congregation.


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## ww

Scott1 said:


> Also, I don't think we could call going to another Christian Church, under any circumstances, "spiritual adultery."
> 
> Nikki alluded to this in her post.
> 
> If you joined a non-Christian Church (the analogy of Israel going after other Gods), maybe that would apply.
> 
> You have a practical problem here, one God calls you to face with faith. I wouldn't over-spiritualize it.
> 
> I would encourage you to work with the worship item of concern where you have been attending. Worship is very important in the Bible and to Reformed Christians. Ordinarily, the PCA system allows a lot of avenues for input and influence by layman.
> 
> I'm sure there are many church leaders, missionaries, and church planters who would greatly value someone such as you, who approaches membership so conscientiously, in their congregation.



If that was the crux of the issue I would do so however the crux of the issue is 45 minutes one way vs 10 minutes one way. I understand your desire to have me positively influence the Worship within my Membership Church and I won't hesitate to share nor have I in the past hesitated to share my Worship preferences with the Session however moot point in regards to my decision to worship LOCALLY. I want to worship in a LOCAL church in my community regardless if both had the same exact application of the RPW. But once again your wise counsel is always appreciated Scott.


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## Davidius

When the issue of distance became more than my wife and I were willing to bear, we were told by one elder basically that it would be adultery to leave a congregation at which we had taken vows for any reason other than having to move away because of a job change, etc. He literally likened it to me leaving my wife. The OP mentioned similar opinions being expressed here before, but I haven't seen them. Is that a common way of viewing membership at an individual church? In my opinion, the adultery metaphor can only be used to refer to actual apostasy from the faith. 

If there is a church like that in your area, I would definitely recommend moving your membership there. The Church is not meant to function as a commuter entity, like so many things today. It is important for our own spiritual development and for the Church's mission that we worship and serve in our area.


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## Semper Fidelis

Wayne,

Regarding your duties to your session, viewing the issue under auspices of adultery would not be the right line of thinking. If anything, the commandments that would broadly govern our duties to the session would fall under the fifth commandment (duties to superiors) and the third commandment (regarding vows).

As long as your elders are informed and are giving you Godly oversight and counsel during this period then there is nothing wrong with visiting another Church. I think it would be wise, before visiting a Church, to inform your session that a closer Church is nearby and let them know of your intent. As our undershepherds, we should not leave our elders guessing as to why they don't see us on a particular Sunday.

Also, as a general principle, we should not be striking out on our own and shopping for new Churches as if the Church we now attend is merely a voluntary association. I'm not saying you're doing that or have done that but I'm trying to establish a general principle. In other words, we not only owe our elders some loyalty and commitment when it comes to Church members but our fellow members as well. The local Church should be a place where our presence is needed and missed when we're not there. We've become accustomed in our culture to coming and going as we please but especially the Hebrews makes plain that membership is much more interconnected and our fellow members are to be viewed as essential to our spiritual growth and we to theirs.


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## fredtgreco

Davidius said:


> When the issue of distance became more than my wife and I were willing to bear, we were told by one elder basically that it would be adultery to leave a congregation at which we had taken vows for any reason other than having to move away because of a job change, etc. He literally likened it to me leaving my wife. The OP mentioned similar opinions being expressed here before, but I haven't seen them. Is that a common way of viewing membership at an individual church? In my opinion, the adultery metaphor can only be used to refer to actual apostasy from the faith.
> 
> If there is a church like that in your area, I would definitely recommend moving your membership there. The Church is not meant to function as a commuter entity, like so many things today. It is important for our own spiritual development and for the Church's mission that we worship and serve in our area.



David,

I am sorry that you were burdened with that. It was wrong of that elder to do so, in my opinion. It speaks of more of a desire for the promotion of a particular church than Christ's Church, and hence is incipient congregationalism.

This is a particular problem for the Reformed churches. Why? Because we are often so focused on being right on tertiary or even 8th or 9th level issues, that our churches are made up of commuters. Regularly the church is made up (up to 75% or more) of those who drive more than 30 minutes to service. It may be fine if some small percentage does, but not the bulk of the church. Even if gas were $1.10 a gallon, this would not be right, nor healthy in my estimation. One session I am aware of granted regular church membership (not associate membership) to a family that lived two states away from the congregation (some 6 hours drive one way). How it is possible to shepherd such folks is beyond me.

We also are a fearful lot. We are afraid that if people leave us to go to church X, we might not be viable. That fear is on one level rational - most Reformed churches are small. But the irony here is that the bulk of such fearful Reformed churches are _*postmillenial *_(or at least very _*optimistic *_amillennial!) in their eschatology! It is my opinion, borne out by experience, that instead of _competing_ with other local churches (_"you would not want to go there, they..."_) we should support each other. This is *especially* true where the churches have different emphases. Our congregation has a wonderful relationship with the local EPC church in Katy. We are different, although much the same. (The EPC in Texas is virtually PCA) We could be competing with them, but both of us have chosen not to view it that way. In fact, this EPC church has helped us all along the way, renting us space at a favorable rate, etc. What is the result? We love them, and we heartily recommend them to anyone who does not "fit" with us. We have two strong Reformed congregations in Katy.

Elders (in my opinion) who have such a protective view of their church that they would call it adultery for a family to try and find a good, reformed church in their community instead have a *business* model for their church (think Coke vs. Pepsi) for all their protestations that the pastor should not be a CEO, etc.


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## Scott1

> the crux of the issue is 45 minutes one way vs 10 minutes one way.



Wow!

I remember when living in a remote small town I had to commute 45 minutes each way (through farm country backroads) to (my first and present) PCA church. I drove up and back twice each Lord's Day and did this for a year so I can really empathize. 

I'm generally aware there are two PCA churches in ABQ, one on the west side and one in the northeast heights. ABQ is a very big [geographical] town. Also, that Rio Rancho is a fast-growing area. Maybe there will be some additional solid, Reformed, PCA church plants to better cover the area in the near future.

It's interesting I had a similar situation when commuting 45 minutes. A PCA Church plant began closer by and was meeting at different locations and looking for permanent staff. The other church was well established, had more activities and classes in Reformed Theology, I had made some friends, etc. so I continued the commute. Later, God moved me up to that city where the church was. Later still, when I married... we lived within walking distance of the church. God, in His Providence!


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## Webservant

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> I believe your local church should be LOCAL. There is nothing wrong with leaving your present church to assist a mission church in your local area.


Amen, brother! My wife and I attended a PCA church 14 miles away from our home. When we moved, we discovered that there was one 1/6 of a mile away. As we were very happy with our church in the 'burbs, we used to joke that when the local church invited us, we would attend. 

Lo and behold, they showed up on our doorstep and invited us. 

To make a long story short, we can walk to church, and all that driving time is now spend on our ministry pursuits. Not to mention what we save in gas.


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## Pergamum

fredtgreco said:


> Davidius said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the issue of distance became more than my wife and I were willing to bear, we were told by one elder basically that it would be adultery to leave a congregation at which we had taken vows for any reason other than having to move away because of a job change, etc. He literally likened it to me leaving my wife. The OP mentioned similar opinions being expressed here before, but I haven't seen them. Is that a common way of viewing membership at an individual church? In my opinion, the adultery metaphor can only be used to refer to actual apostasy from the faith.
> 
> If there is a church like that in your area, I would definitely recommend moving your membership there. The Church is not meant to function as a commuter entity, like so many things today. It is important for our own spiritual development and for the Church's mission that we worship and serve in our area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David,
> 
> I am sorry that you were burdened with that. It was wrong of that elder to do so, in my opinion. It speaks of more of a desire for the promotion of a particular church than Christ's Church, and hence is incipient congregationalism.
> 
> This is a particular problem for the Reformed churches. Why? Because we are often so focused on being right on tertiary or even 8th or 9th level issues, that our churches are made up of commuters. Regularly the church is made up (up to 75% or more) of those who drive more than 30 minutes to service. It may be fine if some small percentage does, but not the bulk of the church. Even if gas were $1.10 a gallon, this would not be right, nor healthy in my estimation. One session I am aware of granted regular church membership (not associate membership) to a family that lived two states away from the congregation (some 6 hours drive one way). How it is possible to shepherd such folks is beyond me.
> 
> We also are a fearful lot. We are afraid that if people leave us to go to church X, we might not be viable. That fear is on one level rational - most Reformed churches are small. But the irony here is that the bulk of such fearful Reformed churches are _*postmillenial *_(or at least very _*optimistic *_amillennial!) in their eschatology! It is my opinion, borne out by experience, that instead of _competing_ with other local churches (_"you would not want to go there, they..."_) we should support each other. This is *especially* true where the churches have different emphases. Our congregation has a wonderful relationship with the local EPC church in Katy. We are different, although much the same. (The EPC in Texas is virtually PCA) We could be competing with them, but both of us have chosen not to view it that way. In fact, this EPC church has helped us all along the way, renting us space at a favorable rate, etc. What is the result? We love them, and we heartily recommend them to anyone who does not "fit" with us. We have two strong Reformed congregations in Katy.
> 
> Elders (in my opinion) who have such a protective view of their church that they would call it adultery for a family to try and find a good, reformed church in their community instead have a *business* model for their church (think Coke vs. Pepsi) for all their protestations that the pastor should not be a CEO, etc.
Click to expand...



Pastor Fred, I would LOVE to start another thread about your excellent post above.

I want your permission first.


You wrote:

_It speaks of more of a desire for the promotion of a particular church than Christ's Church, and hence is incipient congregationalism.

This is a particular problem for the Reformed churches. Why? Because we are often so focused on being right on tertiary or even 8th or 9th level issues, that our churches are made up of commuters. Regularly the church is made up (up to 75% or more) of those who drive more than 30 minutes to service. _


I have seen this too. 

To what level, 3rd, 4th, 8th, or 9th level should we be willing to cooperate or split? I often get accused of being too broad or pragmatic because I want to minimize the rancor caused by small and minor issues and instead gets accused of "minimizing doctrine" in generalin the name of promoting evangelism/missions.

Where is the balance?


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## FrielWatcher

I just read the posts to this. A friend of mine, when I moved back to the Twin Cities here, suggested that I join a local church - reformed or baptist. I suggested Bethlehem Baptist where Dr. John Piper preaches. He said that it would be an okay place to start but then move on. Why? Because of the size of it. It is a very large church and the small churches really need the gifts of people. Large churches - its a ton of people, more admin, more pastors, more stuff.

Bethlehem is about a fifteen minute drive right into Minneapolis. It is a nice place to worship - very powerful music and exegesis, and the bookstore is fun too. But, I believe that God has taken care of them. They have three campuses in the Cities here and they are all big. Do they need me? No and I kind of realized that the last time I was there. So I go to Redeemer Bible that is about fifteen minutes away in the burbs. 
Excellent exegesis, small church, tight congregation, very local. 

For the will of God in your life, this church was found for a reason. Can I outline a bible verse that shows such, that God is saying "go to this church and not this one" when theologically they may be equal? No. But, I think that you are taking your vow seriously because you have weighed it heavily against other considerations. 
The local church needs you more and the distance may be an indicator to you to be at this OPC congregation. Just a thought. Of course, praying to God for His will to be revealed is a must.


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## ww

For us BB and PDA users please make sure to post where your question was placed and link if possible Pergamum I would like to follow it but don't have access to desktop right now. Thanks


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## Pergamum

Got it, on on laptop right now....and I even got a better connection this month!


(In fact, I'vebeen on the net WAY TOO MUCH this month due to being confined to the home to help with the household stuff)


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## fredtgreco

Perg,

Go ahead and start it. I'd like to see some thoughts myself.



Pergamum said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Davidius said:
> 
> 
> 
> When the issue of distance became more than my wife and I were willing to bear, we were told by one elder basically that it would be adultery to leave a congregation at which we had taken vows for any reason other than having to move away because of a job change, etc. He literally likened it to me leaving my wife. The OP mentioned similar opinions being expressed here before, but I haven't seen them. Is that a common way of viewing membership at an individual church? In my opinion, the adultery metaphor can only be used to refer to actual apostasy from the faith.
> 
> If there is a church like that in your area, I would definitely recommend moving your membership there. The Church is not meant to function as a commuter entity, like so many things today. It is important for our own spiritual development and for the Church's mission that we worship and serve in our area.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> David,
> 
> I am sorry that you were burdened with that. It was wrong of that elder to do so, in my opinion. It speaks of more of a desire for the promotion of a particular church than Christ's Church, and hence is incipient congregationalism.
> 
> This is a particular problem for the Reformed churches. Why? Because we are often so focused on being right on tertiary or even 8th or 9th level issues, that our churches are made up of commuters. Regularly the church is made up (up to 75% or more) of those who drive more than 30 minutes to service. It may be fine if some small percentage does, but not the bulk of the church. Even if gas were $1.10 a gallon, this would not be right, nor healthy in my estimation. One session I am aware of granted regular church membership (not associate membership) to a family that lived two states away from the congregation (some 6 hours drive one way). How it is possible to shepherd such folks is beyond me.
> 
> We also are a fearful lot. We are afraid that if people leave us to go to church X, we might not be viable. That fear is on one level rational - most Reformed churches are small. But the irony here is that the bulk of such fearful Reformed churches are _*postmillenial *_(or at least very _*optimistic *_amillennial!) in their eschatology! It is my opinion, borne out by experience, that instead of _competing_ with other local churches (_"you would not want to go there, they..."_) we should support each other. This is *especially* true where the churches have different emphases. Our congregation has a wonderful relationship with the local EPC church in Katy. We are different, although much the same. (The EPC in Texas is virtually PCA) We could be competing with them, but both of us have chosen not to view it that way. In fact, this EPC church has helped us all along the way, renting us space at a favorable rate, etc. What is the result? We love them, and we heartily recommend them to anyone who does not "fit" with us. We have two strong Reformed congregations in Katy.
> 
> Elders (in my opinion) who have such a protective view of their church that they would call it adultery for a family to try and find a good, reformed church in their community instead have a *business* model for their church (think Coke vs. Pepsi) for all their protestations that the pastor should not be a CEO, etc.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Pastor Fred, I would LOVE to start another thread about your excellent post above.
> 
> I want your permission first.
> 
> 
> You wrote:
> 
> _It speaks of more of a desire for the promotion of a particular church than Christ's Church, and hence is incipient congregationalism.
> 
> This is a particular problem for the Reformed churches. Why? Because we are often so focused on being right on tertiary or even 8th or 9th level issues, that our churches are made up of commuters. Regularly the church is made up (up to 75% or more) of those who drive more than 30 minutes to service. _
> 
> 
> I have seen this too.
> 
> To what level, 3rd, 4th, 8th, or 9th level should we be willing to cooperate or split? I often get accused of being too broad or pragmatic because I want to minimize the rancor caused by small and minor issues and instead gets accused of "minimizing doctrine" in generalin the name of promoting evangelism/missions.
> 
> Where is the balance?
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