# NEED VERSE ASAP!!!!!



## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

I need someone to help me find verses on "parental responsibility to protect their children from (physical) harm"

I need this by noon.

I am putting together a statement due to our stand on vaccinations to present to a government agency.

Thank you!


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Jan 4, 2005)

Personally, I would go for the sixth commandment and its extrapolations:

Q134: Which is the sixth commandment? 
A134: The sixth commandment is, Thou shalt not kill.[1]

1. Exod. 20:13

Q135: What are the duties required in the sixth commandment?
A135: The duties required in the sixth commandment are, all careful studies, and lawful endeavors, to preserve the life of ourselves [1] and others [2] by resisting all thoughts and purposes,[3] subduing all passions,[4] and avoiding all occasions,[5] temptations,[6] and practices, which tend to the unjust taking away the life of any;[7] by just defense thereof against violence,[8] patient bearing of the hand of God,[9] quietness of mind,[10] cheerfulness of spirit;[11] a sober use of meat,[12] drink,[13] physic,[14] sleep,[15] labor,[16] and recreations;[17] by charitable thoughts,[18] love,[19] compassion,[20] meekness, gentleness, kindness;[21] peaceable,[22] mild and courteous speeches and behavior;[23] forbearance, readiness to be reconciled, patient bearing and forgiving of injuries, and requiting good for evil;[24] comforting and succoring the distressed, and protecting and defending the innocent.[25]

1. Eph. 5:28-29
2. I Kings 18:4
3. Jer. 26:15-16; Acts 23:12, 16-17, 21, 27
4. Eph. 4:26-27
5. II Sam. 2:22; Deut. 22:8
6. Matt. 4:6-7; Prov. 1:10-11, 15-16
7. I Sam. 24:2; 26:9-11; Gen. 37:21-22
8. Psa. 82:4; Prov. 24:11-12; I Sam. 14:45
9. James 5:7-11; Heb. 12:9
10. I Thess. 4:11; I Peter 3:3-4; Psa. 37:8-11
11. Prov. 17:22
12. Prov. 25:16, 27
13. I Tim. 5:23
14. Isa. 38:21
15. Psa. 127:2
16. Eccl. 5:12; II Thess. 3:10, 12; Prov. 16:26
17. Eccl. 3:4, 11
18. I Sam. 19:4-5; 22:13-14
19. Rom. 13:10
20. Luke 10:33-34
21. Col. 3:12-13
22. James 3:17
23. I Peter 3:8-11; Prov. 15:1; Judg. 8:1-3

24. Matt. 5:24; Eph. 4:2, 32; Rom. 12:17, 20-21
25. I Thess. 5:14; Job 31:19-20; Matt. 25:35-36; Prov. 31:8-9


Q136: What are the sins forbidden in the sixth commandment?
A136: The sins forbidden in the sixth commandment are, all taking away the life of ourselves,[1] or of others,[2] except in case of public justice,[3] lawful war,[4] or necessary defense;[5] the neglecting or withdrawing the lawful and necessary means of preservation of life;[6] sinful anger,[7] hatred,[8] envy,[9] desire of revenge;[10] all excessive passions,[11] distracting cares;[12] immoderate use of meat, drink,[13] labor,[14] and recreations;[15] provoking words,[16] oppression,[17] quarreling,[18] striking, wounding,[19] and: Whatsoever else tends to the destruction of the life of any.[20]

1. Acts 16:28
2. Gen. 9:6

3. Num. 35:31, 33
4. Jer. 48:10; Deut. ch. 20
5. Exod. 22:2-3
6. Matt. 25:42-43; James 2:15-16; Eccl. 6:1-2
7. Matt. 5:22
8. I John 3:15; Lev. 19:17
9. Prov. 14:30
10. Rom. 12:19
11. Eph. 4:31
12. Matt. 6:31, 34
13. Luke 21:34; Rom. 13:13
14. Eccl. 2:22-23; 12:12
15. Isa. 5:12
16. Prov. 12:18; 15:1
17. Ezek. 18:18; Exod. 1:14
18. Gal. 5:15; Prov. 23:29
19. Num. 35:16-18, 21
20. Exod. 21:18-36


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

My wife and I also don't vaccinate our children for safety reasons. 

The Fifth and Sixth Commandments are the most relevant Scriptures, I think. 

Here are some links which address this issue (not all of which I endorse personally, mind you): 

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/page_30.htm

http://www.vaclib.org/news/religion.htm


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

Thank you! I think that should provide them with enough to chew on (it takes up the same amount of space as the document itself). BTW, did use that commandment in regards to our objection to the culturization of the vacs in aborted fetal tissue.

But I would never have been able to come up with all the rest.


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## Scott (Jan 4, 2005)

Colleen: I would provide them with the Westminster extracts Matt cited in addition to scripture. The government will (or should) treat that as a valid statement of your views.

[Edited on 1-4-2005 by Scott]


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

Thank you all again!

Matt and Scott, I did copy and paste "all of that" into a document.
Andrew, I did the same with the forms on the first site (dr's acceptance of responsibility and my refusal).

This is for WIC and last two times I tried to get on they scared me off (wanting to invade my home and put us in "risk" management with no explanation other than that we were expecting a 5th child. HAHA! My friend was in same situation, but no risk management. Difference: we homeschool and delay (now refuse) vaccinations. I have a mom of many homeschoolers coming with me today...she volunteers up there for nursing moms. She wanted me to get something on paper, stating the vacs as why I was targeted before...I called HSLDA and they advised the same.

Thank you very much!


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## sastark (Jan 4, 2005)

Colleen and everyone else,

I know some folks who do not vaccinate their children, and since my wife and I are expecting our first in a little over a month, I'm wondering why you do not?

I'm not trying to attack you for this practice, only genuinely asking for your reasons behind not vaccinating your children. Thanks!

**Edited to add: If this needs to be moved into a seperate thread, please do so. Thanks!**

[Edited on 4-1-2005 by sastark]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> Colleen and everyone else,
> 
> I know some folks who do not vaccinate their children, and since my wife and I are expecting our first in a little over a month, I'm wondering why you do not?
> ...



With respect to our family, we did allow the doctor to give HIB vaccinations to our first child. Both times he was vaccinated, he got sick afterwards, but the doctor denied there was any correlation. We had to sign a waiver of liability before the shots were given anyway. The Court of Federal Claims in Washington, DC adjudicates vaccination injury claims (this is a court I know well from my job as a Washington DC paralegal), but they rarely find in favor of the claimant. We began to investigate child immunizations and found that so many adverse reactions are reported and many more go unreported. We are not alarmists and don't believe that every vaccine is bad or that every child is at risk. We simply believe that parents should have the option to not immunize their child if they feel the risks outweigh the potential benefits. It is the parent's duty to protect their children and sometimes protecting them means holding off or not administering an immunization at all. Some vaccines may contain mercury. Some are bundled together and thus are potentially more traumatic to a child's immune system. The schedule for immunizations requires very young children to get numerous shots by the time they are five. Many children get sick because of the shots and many don't. Autism has been linked to certain immunizations, although that is disputed by the establishment. I personally don't doubt that immunizations have helped our society in general. I simply feel that parents should be able to choose when and whether and which immunizations should be given to their children. The physician's first rule is, "Do no harm." Sometimes risks do outweigh benefits for vaccinations and that should be taken into accounts by all concerned. 

See this link for more info: http://www.909shot.com/Default.htm


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## Dan.... (Jan 4, 2005)

If one were to decline to have his/her child vacinnated, would the child have a problem getting into school?

I went to public school as a child and remember them to always keep close track on immunizations.

Assuming that one home-schools his child (a very good idea), would they still need to be vaccinated to go to college?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

States have different laws on this subject, but public schools and colleges as a rule do require immunizations. Some states allow for religious exemptions. 

http://www.todayschiropractic.com/archives/mar_apr_02/religious_exempt.html

Parents who homeschool often don't have to address the vaccination issue until the children are older, but that is not always the case. There are similarities regarding the duty of parents with respect to homeschooling and vaccinations. The establishment is generally set against parents making decisions along these lines because the state generally takes the position that it is responsible for the childrens' welfare, but provisions in most states exist for parents to exercise their authority in these areas. HSLDA and NVIC are great resources for parents in asserting and protecting their rights.


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## Scott (Jan 4, 2005)

Colleen: I highly recommend that you join the Home School Legal Defense Association and call them every time a government person inquires of you.


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## JohnV (Jan 4, 2005)

Andrew:

Aren't the effects of immunizations only known after the fact? How does one know how or whether an inocculation will harm his child before he gets it? How does one weigh the pros and cons?

I rememeber getting a shot when I was in school. I was sick for a week, with this awful spot on my shouder. It actually killed a muscle on my shoulder. I mean, you can see the difference on both shoulders, one has a muscle there and the other doesn't, the one that had the shot. And its right where the scar from the shot is. I mean, I'm 52 years old, and its still plainly visible. 

But I have eight brothers and sisters who got the same shot who didn't have any reaction at all. I'm the only one who got sick from it. I never got the disease, which I think was small pox. So I'm still ahead, aren't I?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JohnV_
> Andrew:
> 
> Aren't the effects of immunizations only known after the fact? How does one know how or whether an inocculation will harm his child before he gets it? How does one weigh the pros and cons?



I don't claim to know for my own children, let alone for others, that a specific reaction will or will not occur, but I can evaulate known risks associated with a specific vaccination in light of what I know about my child's health and make a decision about whether the risks may be too great. For example, does the vaccine contain mercury? Is my child sick at the time of the proposed vaccination? Does my child have immune system issues that must be considered? Are the vaccines being administered separately or bundled? Has my child already experienced an adverse reaction? Are there known reported adverse reactions to a certain vaccine? Can I trust my pediatrician's counsel in this matter? My main concern is that this decision should be in the hands of parents not the state. The state mandates the vaccines and the doctors require a waiver of liability. Where does that leave the parent and children in the process unless they assert an exemption? Many of us can adduce stories of adverse reactions to vaccines, but many doctors deny they exist. Yet they require waivers. I don't think anyone can say with certainty this reaction will or will not occur, but that applies to doctors as well as parents, and parents and children are the ones who have to live with the consequences not the establishment. NVIC has a petition going which notes that federal vaccine research is not fully available to the public. Full disclosure by vaccine companies and health officials would greatly help parents in making their decisions, but that's not what the establishment wants to happen.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Colleen: I highly recommend that you join the Home School Legal Defense Association and call them every time a government person inquires of you.



As I stated in one of my posts...I had talked with an attorney from HSLDA (Home School Legal Defense Association) before posting my request. Already covered there, Scot...but thanks anyway!


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

Seth, Here is the personal statement that I wrote up today...maybe it will answer some of your questions

Our Statement of Delay and Refusal of Vaccinations
For
(Name of Child)
That of
Conscientious and Religious Reasoning
As permitted by the Health Examination & Vaccination Clause
Title 105 of the Illinois Code Section 5/27-8.1 (8)

1. God has placed upon us the parental responsibilities to protect our children from that which could be harmful to their persons. Exodus 20:13 and its extrapolations.

a. Our second child has had a previous side effect believed to be caused by a vaccination she received when only a few months of age. This was affirmed by her nurse-practitioner at that time.

b. It is known that in children who have these side effects that the medical handbooks state that the siblings of these children may also be at risk due to genetics and should therefore not be given said vaccinations.

c. In children who have a reaction to one vaccination, it is plausible that they will have similar reactions to other vaccinations that contain similar ingredients to previous vaccination.

2. We are not to, in any known or intentionally ignorant manner, participate in that which would infringe upon or be contrary to our religious beliefs.

a. Intentional abortion under any circumstance is considered murder and unconscionable according to Hebraic and Judeo-Christian Scriptures. Jeremiah 1:5, Exodus 20:13, Exodus 21:22-23

b. Many of the vaccinations have been cultured in aborted fetal tissue. 

c. It is our belief that to accept these vaccinations is to participate in and cause payment for promotion of this practice (intentional abortion and use of the remains thereof). 

d. It is also our belief that we should not intentionally introduce into our children´s bodies that which would be or caused by that which Our Lord, God would consider and Our Scriptures teach to be an abomination. Corinthians 3:16-17 and Deuteronomy 14:3 and 24:21 warns us not to defile the temple of God, our bodies, with anything unclean.

(Name and Signature of Parent/s)

[Edited on 5-1-2005 by LadyFlynt]


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

Gentlemen, 

I just wanted to thank you all and I know my husband will be grateful to you all as well.

It went well today. The nurse that had given me a difficult time was no longer there, they have shortened their processes, and the lady I got was only a dietician, expecting, and sweet as pie. I only had to say that we don't vaccinate and that I have a statement of religious exemption (the personal statement listed above) which I handed to her one for each child to place in their records. I had copies of all the other stuff (expolations, waivers, etc that you all had reccomended, a set for each child) in folders for each child in case she wish to question me further (then I would have had her place those in their records also).

The friend that went with me looked through what I had on the way there and she asked that I email it all to her (she has 7, been homeschooling longer, and is head of our county homeschool group). So if nothing else...maybe my experience and needing to prepare can assist others in being prepared. We are in a lenient state (and ppl left us alone when we were with the mennonites) so I just presumed that that would continue...I presumed wrong.

Again thank you, you all were blessings and of great encouragement!


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 4, 2005)

bump


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## Scot (Jan 4, 2005)

We don't vaccinate either. I don't know about all the states but here you can be exempt if you have a strong conviction like a religious belief. It doesn't necessarily have to be a religious belief. An athiest can refuse them the same as a christian or anyone else. We don't provide alot of arguement or facts to them. We simply say "we don't do that" and they can't do a thing.

They really get worked up over our kids. We only use medical intervention in emergencies (thank God we haven't had any). Our kids don't even get children's Tylenol. Our kids are the picture of health and we've never followed medical advice. It drives them crazy.


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## JohnV (Jan 4, 2005)

Thanks, Andrew. Good answer.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 5, 2005)

You're welcome, John!

Colleen, Your personal statement is excellent! I am very pleased to hear that things went well today for you and your family. God bless!


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 5, 2005)

Thank You


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## Scot (Jan 5, 2005)

> LadyFlynt wrote:
> 
> b. Many of the vaccinations have been cultured in aborted fetal tissue.



Whether you are for vaccinations or not, this is something that all christians need to be aware of. I see alot of people blindly follow whatever the "medical authorities" say without actually looking into things. Even if you believe in the theory behind vaccinations, a christian should have no part in something that involves the use of aborted children (not all vaccines are cultured this way).


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 5, 2005)




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## Ivan (Jan 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scot_
> 
> 
> > LadyFlynt wrote:
> ...



WHOA!!! Can you document this, please. Incredible!!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 5, 2005)

Here is some documentation on the connection between certain vaccines and aborted babies:

http://www.cogforlife.org/vaxbrochsample.htm

http://www.vaccinetruth.org/fetal_tissue.htm

http://www.whale.to/m/aborted.htm

http://autism.about.com/cs/vaccinations/l/blvaccsecret.htm

http://www.lc.org/radiotv/nlj/nlj0901.htm


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## Scot (Jan 5, 2005)

> WHOA!!! Can you document this, please. Incredible!!



All that you have to do is ask to see the vaccine product inserts. Here's some toll free numbers that you can call to obtain the inserts. This info. is a few years old, I'm assuming the numbers are still the same:

Havrix
Hepatitis A
SmithKiline Beecham Pharamceuticals
1-800-633-8900 ext. 5231
produced using formalin, aluminum hydroxide, phenoxyethanol (antifreeze), polysorbate 20, residual MRC5 proteins (from medium) medium: *human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)*

MMR
Measles Mumps Rubella Live Virus Vaccine
Merck & Co., inc. 
1-800-672-6372
produced using sorbitol, neomycin, hydrolyzed gelatin mediums: M&m - chick embryo Rubella - *human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue*

Varivax
Varicella Virus Vaccine Live
Merck & Co., Inc.
1-800-672-6372
produced using sucrose, phosphate, monosodium glutamate, processed gelatin medium: *human diploid cells (originating from human aborted fetal tissue)*

There's more but you get the picture.


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## LadyFlynt (Jan 5, 2005)

Also if you go to one of the first set of sites that Andrew listed, then find the link to the forms for your dr to sign...after that form is a refusal form with information on each vac...it's side effects, statistics of getting the virus w/ and w/o the vac, and it's dangerous/questionable contents. At the end of all this it has a bibliography of all of it's obtained information.


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## Scot (Jan 5, 2005)

> _sastark wrote_
> 
> Colleen and everyone else,
> 
> ...



I would highly recommend finding and purchasing the book "Vaccines: Are They Really Safe and Effective? A Parent's Guide To Childhood Shots" by Neil Z. Miller. It's easy to read and understand. I think you'll benefit from it.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 12, 2005)

Aborted Fetal Cell Line Vaccines and Ethical Alternatives

Abortion-Tainted New Flu Vaccine From Vaxin Uses Aborted Fetal Cell Lines (Feb. 7, 2005 article)


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 12, 2005)

Thank you, Andrew!


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## Dan.... (Oct 12, 2005)

Making sure I understand this chart....

What it's saying is that millions of vacinations were produced and are still being produced from one (eg RA273) fetus which was aborted in 1964, correct?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> Thank you, Andrew!



You're welcome!



> _Originally posted by Dan...._
> Making sure I understand this chart....
> 
> What it's saying is that millions of vacinations were produced and are still being produced from one (eg RA273) fetus which was aborted in 1964, correct?



I think from the info below the chart is saying that different numbers of aborted babies were used to generate the vaccines depending the type. 



> Additional Facts - Rubella
> 
> The Rubella vaccine, produced by Merck & Company was taken from an aborted baby during the 1964 rubella epidemic when some mothers were advised to have abortions, rather than risk their child being born with Congenital Rubella Syndrome. *It was from the 27th baby aborted and immediately dissected that the active rubella virus was finally found. It was commonly referred to as RA27/3, where R=Rubella, A=Abortus, 27=27th fetus, 3=third tissue culture explant. The abortionist collaborated with the Wistar Institute to collect the aborted babies in order to isolate the virus. The vaccine virus was then cultivated in the lung tissue of another aborted female baby, approximately 3 months gestation.* (WI-38) (Attenuation of RA27/3 Rubella Virus in WI-38 Human Diploid Cells, Plotkin, Stanley, et. al., American Journal of Disease of Childhood, 118:178-185, 1969.) This abortion was performed because "the parents felt they had too many children." (G. Sven, S. Plotkin and K. McCarthy, Gamma Globulin Prophylaxis; Inactivated Rubella Virus; Production and Biological Control of Live Attenuated Rubella Virus Vaccines, American Journal of Diseases of Children, vol. 118, August 1969).The new vaccine was developed in Philadelphia, Pa. and tested on orphans. (American Journal Diseases of Children, Vol. 110, Oct. 1965) Considering that there was already two licensed rubella vaccines on the market and considering that they could have done exactly what the Japanese did in order to isolate the rubella virus (they swabbed the throat of an infected child), it is obvious this vaccine was created in order to justify fetal tissue research. It is also important to note that Rubella is basically a harmless childhood disease that is only considered to have possible serious effects on the unborn child when a pregnant woman is exposed to the virus during her first trimester. Should this occur, 20-25% of these cases will develop some form of Congenital Rubella Syndrome, which may cause malformations of the heart, eyes or brain, deafness, or liver, spleen and bone marrow problems.
> 
> ...



In the case of the new flu vaccine, one aborted baby is being used, I think.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 12, 2005)

Rubella, yes, they have been able to generate more human cells from one abortion.


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## Dan.... (Oct 12, 2005)

Okay, I think it makes sense now:

Rubella - RA27/3 -
At least 27 abortions were performed before they found one fetus with active rubella virus. From cells generated from that 27th fetus aborted in 1964, they are continuing to make vaccines up to present day.

[Edited on 10-12-2005 by Dan....]


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