# Skeptic: which revelation is correct?



## nwink (Dec 16, 2013)

I have been in infrequent communication with a skeptic friend. He posed a challenging question I am not sure how to address, so I thought I'd see if I could get some help from those on the PB:

"The main argument I have against Christianity is that there is absolutely no basis for determining which revelation of which god is the correct revelation and true God. For example, whenever I hear Christians critique the religion of Islam, it's always on the basis of tenets of Christianity...but how do they know to accept as their ultimate presupposition that Christianity is true and not Islam? Just critiquing apparent contradictions in the Koran doesn't help their case either if we're talking about ultimate presuppositions. If one accepts Islam to be true, it can stand on its own presuppositions and foundation regardless of how it appears through Christian or other-religious eyes. So again, my question is: out of the countless multitudes of religions based on special revelation, how do you know yours is the right one?"


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## Logan (Dec 16, 2013)

Just a quick question Nathan: have you read any of Bahnsen's books (or Van Til) or perhaps listened to some of his debates? I found those extremely helpful. Basically, if I'm paraphrasing correctly, the Christian presupposition is the only one that yields a worldview that is internally consistent and makes sense.


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## nwink (Dec 16, 2013)

Logan said:


> Just a quick question Nathan: have you read any of Bahnsen's books (or Van Til) or perhaps listened to some of his debates?



I have read some of the material by people like Bahnsen or Frame or Oliphint. I'm fairly familiar with their arguments.


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## jwithnell (Dec 16, 2013)

Avoid hypotheticals. You are to be ready to give an answer to the hope that is within you, not to try to shoot down any argument someone might bring to your table (however intellectually satisfying that can be). When people are "just talking" and willing to share with you what they believe, you can draw them out to the logical (or as is almost always the case -- the illogical) ends of their arguments. You will often then be given the opportunity to introduce people to the truth as reveled in scripture.


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## Peairtach (Dec 16, 2013)

Do avoid hypotheticals and try to steer the conversation towards Christ and who He is.

If you want some help see Bahnsen's online paper "Presuppositional Reasoning with False Faiths" and Michael Robinson's book on presuppositional apologetics and false religions.

Remember that Islam shoots itself in the foot by claiming the Bible came from Allah but was corrupted, which means we cannot trust Allah to have preserved the Koran either.

If you're going to engage in apologetics vis-a-vis other religions you have to get some basic understanding of the false religion.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## Steve Curtis (Dec 16, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> If you're going to engage in apologetics vis-a-vis other religions you have to get some basic understanding of the false religion.


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## nwink (Dec 16, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> Do avoid hypotheticals



In the quote from my friend above, I do not believe he was speaking in hypotheticals but using an example. There is a difference between the hypothetical and an example. I believe his main question is: if the basis of what you believe is based on supernatural revelation, on what basis do you believe one revelation over another? But maybe I'm misunderstanding him...this all is a little over my head. Thanks.

(Edit: Ok, I think I see what you mean by hypotheticals of someone else assuming their revelation is true. But I do think it's a good question.)


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## David Pope (Dec 16, 2013)

I think that one can never go wrong by pointing to the Resurrection. This is an audacious claim not shared by other religions' "revelations." 

All men will reckon with the Risen Savior. That's where I'd start.


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## Peairtach (Dec 16, 2013)

PA208

https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/101585

Here's part of a debate about apologetics and Islam, you might be able to work out or find the rest:
Johnson on Van Til

Comments on John Johnson's Response to Frame & Hays

Triablogue: Van Til v. Muhammad

The Theist worldviews of Judaism and Islam, both mimic the Christian Theistic worldview ,in a superficial sense, closely, because Judaism and Islam historically borrow a little from the Christian worldview, but then twist the little they borrow. John Frame points this out in his "Apologetics to the Glory of God".

The gods of Islam and Judaism are both presented as absolute and personal, something which is not the case with other religions which do not borrow these things from the biblical revelation.

For their rock is not like our Rock,
as even our enemies concede.(Deuteronomy 32:31)

But, as the above verse points out, careful comparison of the Koran with the Bible, and the god of Islam with the One Living and True God, will however reveal the cracks in, and sandiness of, the rock upon which Islam is built.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 16, 2013)

Don't critique Islam from Christian tenets. Use the Qu'ran.
Judaism has the embarrassing problem by not being able to make atonement on its own tenets (no temple, etc).


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## MW (Dec 16, 2013)

The proof is in the eating. Christ is the Saviour suited in every way to the sinner's need. The message of the Christian revelation, its own content, should be emphasised. Apart from the revelation of Christianity there is no hope.


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## GloriousBoaz (Dec 16, 2013)

Cameronian said:


> Don't critique Islam from Christian tenets.


 I agree with Matthew "Faith comes through hearing and hearing of the Word of God" "God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe."

Ours (Christianity that is) is the right one because only in it does God work regeneration (which changes worldviews i.e. ultimate presuppositions) because of the historical figure Christ that is God and Man and has sent the Holy Spirit to convict the world of sin, righteousness, and judgment. The cross, the resurrection, the narrative of scripture in history. Islam is less than nothing compared to this great truth we hold. Give your testimony for by it you will overcome satan himself, even he cannot hide the truth of God ultimately, nor can the gates of hell prevail against the scriptures and the work of God in Christ's bride. Also love Muslims in a way they cannot love back. Show them grace and make them envy being free from their works burden that so heavily weighs them down. Give them a copy of Pilgrim's Progress while you are at it.

P.S. Thanks Richard for the great links I will be checking those out soon!


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## Jerusalem Blade (Dec 16, 2013)

Hello Nathan,

Your friend's query is very intellectual, that is, cerebral. I was deeply into a number of the Eastern spiritual paths when I was younger (Buddhism, Zen, Tao, Theosophy, Sufi) and they all had a _vitality_ to their thought-forms, a psychic power that is imparted by demonic deception. Traditional Islam was not attractive to me because it is not a spiritual path as such, but a political, sensual, earthly path forged into a religion. It did not have anything to do with enlightenment of one's consciousness, though the Sufis did, but they are not traditional Islam.

What showed me that the "revelation" of Christ is the true one is that Jesus is alive (which none of the other religion's founders are) and He imparts actual awareness of Himself by the regeneration of a soul by His Spirit, making such a soul alive unto God (upon regeneration we become aware of Him, that He is God, and we lost sinners, and in Christ alone is salvation, and He grants us the grace of repentance). The revelation a Christian has is immediate knowledge of a living God – _the_ living God – which no other religion has, as their founders and gods are all dead, or demonic.

The Christian revelation of God is not merely, or even primarily, cerebral, but the light of God in Christ illumining the soul with the glory of His grace.

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God (Rom 10:17); His sheep hear His voice, and they follow Him (John 10:27). I would let your friend hear the word of God to such as he:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God (John 3:16-21).​
If he rejects the word of the living Jesus Christ, spoken by one of Christ's emissaries, he is _rejecting_ the revelation. This is how the Lord Jesus put it,
To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice (John 18:37 ).​
And His apostle, Paul, followed up with,
God . . . now commandeth all men every where to repent: Because he hath appointed a day, in the which he will judge the world in righteousness by that man whom he hath ordained; whereof he hath given assurance unto all men, in that he hath raised him from the dead (Acts 17:30, 31).​
Your friend will be held accountable for his wicked unbelief in the Son of God's words given to him. He has been commanded to repent, believe the gospel, and turn to God, not given an option to judge God's words and commands. It is very life and death you are setting before him.


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