# Should I learn a Trade?



## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

As many of you know, I'm currently serving as a Pastoral intern with a Presbyterian church in England for a year but will be returning back home to Wichita, Kansas in June, 2015. There is no doubt in my mind that I am called to the Pastoral ministry; and like many who are so called I feel very at home in the world of ideas. Liberal arts, teaching, theology, etc... all come naturally to me. However, I believe that it is important to be confident and competent in working with your hands as well as with your mind. I also see the value in learning a trade or skill that I can use were God to ever put me in a situation where I needed to be bi-vocational etc... Practically as well, I'll (Lord willing) be getting married next summer soon after I get back and will need at least a year before I go off to seminary. I'm wondering if having a skill or trade would help me to find part-time work while in school. I also know that tradesmen can often earn more than unskilled jobs, and I think that having a trade would be of help to me just as I live life normally.

To be honest, I've always admired guys who have such a skill or trade. I know some are inclined to look down on construction guys, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc... but I've always felt a bit of intimidation/admiration for guys who know how to work with their hands. Probably this is because I don't have such a skill and I'd like to grow in this area. 

All that said - do you think it would be worth the time/money to learn a trade? I'd love to find something that I could learn fairly quickly so that I could have a year or so to actually work in the field and earn some money before heading to seminary in 2016. Is that at all realistic or would I have to do a 2-4 year apprenticeship in something? I'd love to do something like carpentry, or auto mechanics, but I did come across these certifications courses that seem to be quicker options: Air Conditioning Technology, COC - WATC and Automotive Transmissions/Transaxle, COC - WATC 

Any thoughts?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 21, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> However, I believe that it is important to be confident and competent in working with your hands as well as with your mind.



I was forced to do manual labour as a child so that later in life I would avoid it and work with my mind. Coming from a wider family were most of the men were manual labourers, it is hard having to be a wimp and a nerd, but you get over it eventually. 



Hamalas said:


> I don't have such a skill



In that case, you are busy enough with your studies. I would not worry about learning a trade unless you _really_ need the money to support you in seminary.


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

Either way, I'll need to be working between the summer of 2015 to the summer of 2016. Trade jobs definitely pay better than what I was making at my old office job (doing data entry at a Law Office).


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## Jerusalem Blade (Nov 21, 2014)

Ben, I think locksmithing is a good vocation, doesn't take a ton of tools, and you can practice anywhere you go, especially by joining an already established company. There are both manual and high-tech skills needed. If you have a clean record you can get appropriate levels of security bonding, which are required. Here's a list of schools by the Associated Locksmiths of America.

I do think you are right -- it's always good to have a manual trade you can fall back on if the need arises. The apostle Paul made tents (of course he was an unusual case).


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## earl40 (Nov 21, 2014)

As a layman I would suggest not to "waste" time leaning a trade other than the one you are called towards. The time spent learning a trade would be better spent learning you main trade.


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## whirlingmerc (Nov 21, 2014)

There's a pretty good precedence for 'tent making' ministries. It also might be the future of missions.

If you are going to work with small churches or on the mission field it may be good to be bi-vocational


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

I'm really interested in the locksmith recommendation. That's something I could train in quickly, and would pay well enough (and be flexible enough) for me to get some work experience in the year before seminary while also doing that on the side during my studies. At this point I WILL need to work to put myself through seminary so having something like that as a skill would be much better than flipping burgers or working in the seminary bookstore.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 21, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> would be much better than flipping burgers or working in the seminary bookstore



Is the temptation to devour both products, rather than allowing the customers to digest them, too much for you to bear?


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Hamalas said:
> 
> 
> > would be much better than flipping burgers or working in the seminary bookstore
> ...



More in the case of the latter now that you mention it...


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## whirlingmerc (Nov 21, 2014)

Another good thing about the locksmith profession is you would meet a variety of clients across the range of people in the community. Good way to interact with the community and make contacts.


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## Romans922 (Nov 21, 2014)

If you are called to pastoral ministry you should pursue that fully. Leaning something while in seminary is not unwise. But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful (of course that is dependent upon if you are really called - what has your church said about this?).


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> If you are called to pastoral ministry you should pursue that fully. Leaning something while in seminary is not unwise. But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful (of course that is dependent upon if you are really called - what has your church said about this?).



To clarify - I am not talking about delaying seminary at all. I will be back in 2015 and won't go to seminary until 2016 at the earliest. I need to work; and I'm wondering if it would be wise to try my hand at a trade rather than just finding a temporary office job etc...


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## Dearly Bought (Nov 21, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> If you are called to pastoral ministry you should pursue that fully. Leaning something while in seminary is not unwise. But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful (of course that is dependent upon if you are really called - what has your church said about this?).



Sinful? It may seem so in larger denominations where one is assuming that a normal pastoral call comes with full financial support and/or that substantial financial support will be forthcoming for seminary. However, there are many of us who are assuming that bivocational ministry is the default. Preparing to provide for yourself and your family is not sinful at all. "For a bishop must be blameless..." (Titus 1:7)


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## Toasty (Nov 21, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> As many of you know, I'm currently serving as a Pastoral intern with a Presbyterian church in England for a year but will be returning back home to Wichita, Kansas in June, 2015. There is no doubt in my mind that I am called to the Pastoral ministry; and like many who are so called I feel very at home in the world of ideas. Liberal arts, teaching, theology, etc... all come naturally to me. However, I believe that it is important to be confident and competent in working with your hands as well as with your mind. I also see the value in learning a trade or skill that I can use were God to ever put me in a situation where I needed to be bi-vocational etc... Practically as well, I'll (Lord willing) be getting married next summer soon after I get back and will need at least a year before I go off to seminary. I'm wondering if having a skill or trade would help me to find part-time work while in school. I also know that tradesmen can often earn more than unskilled jobs, and I think that having a trade would be of help to me just as I live life normally.
> 
> To be honest, I've always admired guys who have such a skill or trade. I know some are inclined to look down on construction guys, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc... but I've always felt a bit of intimidation/admiration for guys who know how to work with their hands. Probably this is because I don't have such a skill and I'd like to grow in this area.
> 
> ...



If you have no other way to pay for seminary, then learn a trade.

Can you learn some skills other than the skills associated with the trades you mentioned that can help you to get a high-enough paying job for seminary?

How much time/money will it take to learn a trade?

How much money do you need for seminary?

Can you make enough money for seminary without learning a trade?

Can you think of a non-trade related job that you can get that will help you to pay for seminary?


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## Romans922 (Nov 21, 2014)

Dearly Bought said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > If you are called to pastoral ministry you should pursue that fully. Leaning something while in seminary is not unwise. But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful (of course that is dependent upon if you are really called - what has your church said about this?).
> ...



I stand by what I said. If you are learning a trade just to learn a trade and thus putting off pastoral ministry that is sinful. If in the course of pursuing pastoral ministry (or any call) and 1) there is a need for bi-vocational ministry and 2) you haven't learned a trade growing up or previously THEN by all means learn a trade to fulfill your calling. But to learn it just to learn it and delaying a calling from God --> yes that is sinful.


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

Toasty said:


> Hamalas said:
> 
> 
> > As many of you know, I'm currently serving as a Pastoral intern with a Presbyterian church in England for a year but will be returning back home to Wichita, Kansas in June, 2015. There is no doubt in my mind that I am called to the Pastoral ministry; and like many who are so called I feel very at home in the world of ideas. Liberal arts, teaching, theology, etc... all come naturally to me. However, I believe that it is important to be confident and competent in working with your hands as well as with your mind. I also see the value in learning a trade or skill that I can use were God to ever put me in a situation where I needed to be bi-vocational etc... Practically as well, I'll (Lord willing) be getting married next summer soon after I get back and will need at least a year before I go off to seminary. I'm wondering if having a skill or trade would help me to find part-time work while in school. I also know that tradesmen can often earn more than unskilled jobs, and I think that having a trade would be of help to me just as I live life normally.
> ...



Good questions, and not all of them are questions I can fully answer. Here are my best educated guesses:

1) Possibly. I'm not particularly tech-savvy nor am I inclined towards mathematics/business jobs either. And as I mentioned, I'd be more drawn towards some type of manual/trade labor that would require and develop skill in working with your hands. 

2) That depends entirely on the trade. Running with the Locksmith idea that would take a few months for certification (3 months is the number I'm seeing most commonly) and would cost between $700-$1,000 for the training.

3) Hard to estimate. If I go to PRTS (which is the current plan) they charge $250 per credit hour and the MDiv is a 115 credit hour degree. That means the grand total for tuition would be $28,750 split over 3-4 years. Plus books and living expenses for myself and my (future) wife along with any young ones that might come along. The details of those expenses are really going to depend on what God provides in the way of housing etc... I'd want to avoid debt as much as I can and would only want my wife to work outside the home if we had to (she's a school teacher).

4) Again, possibly. It depends on what kind of work I can find when I get back and what kind of work I could get once I start seminary itself. Obviously unless some sort of ministry position opened (which would probably not be well paid) I would just be looking at general unskilled work of some sort (office, retail, food service, etc...)

5) I could possibly go back to my old job working for the Law Firm which would not be a bad option it would simply be making minimum pay.


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

And just to add further clarification: attending seminary and pursuing the pastoral ministry is the clear priority. The main reason I wouldn't jump into doing a carpentry or auto mechanic training course is because the time required to learn these trades would force me to hold off on seminary. My time frame is to start seminary in the fall of 2016 and unless God changes that I'm sticking with that plan. So I'm really only talking about trades where I could get basic training fairly quickly (a few months) and then have some time to work before heading off to school.


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## Toasty (Nov 21, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > If you are called to pastoral ministry you should pursue that fully. Leaning something while in seminary is not unwise. But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful (of course that is dependent upon if you are really called - what has your church said about this?).
> ...



He wants to learn a trade so that he can get a good-paying job that will support him in seminary.


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## whirlingmerc (Nov 21, 2014)

If you would be a teacher, an educator, it would be handy to have a trade for the summer months


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## JimmyH (Nov 21, 2014)

Random thoughts ...... I've learned a few trades in my long life. Graduated union ironworker apprenticeship after 4 years in 1973, after 20 years of that I learned carpet installation, both residential and commercial applications at a professional level. Takes a few years of on the job training in diverse environments to become proficient. Prior to all that I hung canvas and aluminum awnings in Florida. Six months to a year before an average worker is proficient enough to begin paying off the investment his employer has made in training him. 

Learning a trade is a good thing. My father told me when I was 13 years old, learn a trade Jim. Learn something not any 'shmoe' can do and you'll always have employment. Locksmith would probably be a good trade but I'm not sure how interested an employer would be in investing the time to train someone who is not going to stick around long enough to make the employer's sacrifice in paying the individual while he is learning, knowing they are just going to move on by the time they can become productive.

Knowing what I know now, if I was a young man interested in learning a trade I would go for electrician. It is not dangerous or back breaking labor, and unlike ironwork, when construction is slow, there are always people in need of an electrician, so there is always side work. Probably would take 5 years of on the job training with a good company to turn out a sure enough journeyman electrician qualified in all phases of the trade.


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## Romans922 (Nov 21, 2014)

Toasty said:


> He wants to learn a trade so that he can get a good-paying job that will support him in seminary.



Yes, that's what he said.


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## gmalloy (Nov 21, 2014)

Hi Ben,
As another avenue to consider, I workded as a security guard during my days as an undergraduate and in graduate school. While it did not pay great ($10/hour), it was worth it because I would essentially study for the entire 8 hour shift. This meant that I got my work and studies done at the same time, which enabled me to be completey present for my family while not at work. Also, when you are sitting at a desk and cannot leave, there is nothing to distract you. I would get tons of reading, writing, and just plain reflecting done. It may be something to consider as there is virtually no training, pays decently, and jobs are readily available.
GM


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## Hamalas (Nov 21, 2014)

gmalloy said:


> Hi Ben,
> As another avenue to consider, I workded as a security guard during my days as an undergraduate and in graduate school. While it did not pay great ($10/hour), it was worth it because I would essentially study for the entire 8 hour shift. This meant that I got my work and studies done at the same time, which enabled me to be completey present for my family while not at work. Also, when you are sitting at a desk and cannot leave, there is nothing to distract you. I would get tons of reading, writing, and just plain reflecting done. It may be something to consider as there is virtually no training, pays decently, and jobs are readily available.
> GM



That's an interesting idea for sure. Is reading etc... usually permitted with that kind of work? One of the main reasons I'll be waiting until 2016 to start seminary is that I'll have a few long distance courses to finish for college and being able to combine work with study would be a major bonus for me.


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## Dearly Bought (Nov 21, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> gmalloy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ben,
> ...



Night shifts are great for reading. It'll pay more if you go for an armed guard permit or whatever your state requires.


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## gmalloy (Nov 21, 2014)

It depends on the post. I would always ask for something really boring where they just basically needed someone to sit at a desk. I would tell them up front that I was a student and wanted something that I could read at. I never had a problem finding such a post. It is a huge blessing, especially if you have a family. My wife and I were committed to her staying home with our kids, so there were limited options for me to work full time and go to school. I can't imagine home some people work all day, spend time with their family, and then try to do schoolwork.
GM


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## gmalloy (Nov 21, 2014)

Dearly Bought said:


> Hamalas said:
> 
> 
> > gmalloy said:
> ...



Night shifts are good for reading, but not so much for a normal family life. Armed guard positions do generally pay more, but they rarely provide the opportunity to study during the shift. For me, it was better to take less pay and study the whole time. I can't tell you how many books I read during those years.
GM


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## earl40 (Nov 21, 2014)

If you want to sacrifice a tad I hear the oil fields in the Dakotas are the place to be to earn a good amount of money which could probably finance your entire future studies.


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## Edward (Nov 21, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful



I would submit that the inverse is true. Taking on debt so one can graduate from seminary at a young age is far worse than taking a bit of time, learning a trade that will enable you to support your family while in seminary and perhaps enable you accept a call to a smaller, less wealthy church.


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## Edward (Nov 21, 2014)

earl40 said:


> If you want to sacrifice a tad I hear the oil fields in the Dakotas are the place to be to earn a good amount of money which could probably finance your entire future studies.



One caution on that (and the Texas oil fields). Things were really booming at $100.00 a barrel. Folks are beginning to at least think about cutting back at $75. And if oil drops to $60, there will probably be a collapse in new activity, although the producers will continue to pump from holes already in the ground. 

So excellent advice 6 months ago needs to be approached with a bit more caution today.


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## Romans922 (Nov 21, 2014)

Edward said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > But learning a trade, just to learn a trade putting off pastoral ministry (your call) is sinful
> ...



Read Post #15 - http://www.puritanboard.com/f24/should-i-learn-trade-85232/#post1063164


I am not just answering Ben's question, but a larger question of many who today think that a minister must have some sort of business experience, trade/real world experience, or a fall back plan before entering the ministry. But in my answer I address also what Ben is dealing with particularly and yours that you bring up. If it is necessary (and right) to bring about the following of God's call that you have to take on a trade (not learn a trade), then you should do it in so much as it brings about the following of God's call. To learn a trade just to learn a trade and thus postpone the calling of God in any unneedful way, is sinful.


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## Andres (Nov 21, 2014)

Ben, 
So even with a college degree you don't think you could find suitable work to provide for yourself and a family? Seems like part-time teaching would be an option or even tutoring considering your degree. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about tradesmen, but I just dont know if I believe that a brand-new apprentice tradesman or one with a few years experience will make more than someone with a college degree. Aren't the big-time earners those who own their own businesses or are the foreman, etc? Again, I don't have any hard evidence, but I feel confident that your average locksmith makes less money than a college-educated schoolteacher. I'd suggest trying to get experience in a field more closely related to your degree. Or continue your experience in the job you most recently held. There is good money to be made in a law firm. Have you considered training to become a legal assistant?


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## Free Christian (Nov 22, 2014)

Ben. Do you think you should learn a trade?


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## Hamalas (Nov 22, 2014)

Andres said:


> Ben,
> So even with a college degree you don't think you could find suitable work to provide for yourself and a family? Seems like part-time teaching would be an option or even tutoring considering your degree. I'll admit I don't know all there is to know about tradesmen, but I just dont know if I believe that a brand-new apprentice tradesman or one with a few years experience will make more than someone with a college degree. Aren't the big-time earners those who own their own businesses or are the foreman, etc? Again, I don't have any hard evidence, but I feel confident that your average locksmith makes less money than a college-educated schoolteacher. I'd suggest trying to get experience in a field more closely related to your degree. Or continue your experience in the job you most recently held. There is good money to be made in a law firm. Have you considered training to become a legal assistant?



I'm not saying I couldn't find work; and teaching would definitely be my ideal plan B. The only potential challenge is that while I am doing a degree in education it is not one that would be recognized by any public schools or some private schools. So if there was a private school (or especially a Classical school) I could probably get work but my options are more limited. Again, I'm not afraid I'll starve, but I think diversifying your skills as an individual is wise and I do think we miss out on something when we lose the ability to work with our hands.


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## Hamalas (Nov 22, 2014)

Free Christian said:


> Ben. Do you think you should learn a trade?



Tough question. I would like to learn a trade, to be honest. But I don't want to unnecessarily delay my calling (as Andrew mentioned) and am seeking the wisest path forward.


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## earl40 (Nov 22, 2014)

Edward said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> > If you want to sacrifice a tad I hear the oil fields in the Dakotas are the place to be to earn a good amount of money which could probably finance your entire future studies.
> ...




I hear ya, though I strongly suspect the only way to reach 60 dollars a barrel is to ramp up production in the fracking. From your lips to God's ears on the 60 a barrel.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Nov 22, 2014)

As one who had to learn a trade later in life, my advice would be to do so while you are young and more fleet of mind and have more flexibility in your life, IF you think it is necessary. But more to the point of the OP, I think you would be better counseled by Elders who know you and your situation. The relative strangers on the PB can do little more than offer opinions based on our own frames of reference. The Lord has given us the Local Body to assist in such life decisions. The entirety of internet wisdom is a poor substitute, at best, for the counsel of men who know and love you in Christ.


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## Hamalas (Nov 22, 2014)

Southern Presbyterian said:


> As one who had to learn a trade later in life, my advice would be to do so while you are young and more fleet of mind and have more flexibility in your life, IF you think it is necessary. But more to the point of the OP, I think you would be better counseled by Elders who know you and your situation. The relative strangers on the PB can do little more than offer opinions based on our own frames of reference. The Lord has given us the Local Body to assist in such life decisions. The entirety of internet wisdom is a poor substitute, at best, for the counsel of men who know and love you in Christ.



Wise words.


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## Hamalas (Nov 24, 2014)

gmalloy said:


> Hi Ben,
> As another avenue to consider, I workded as a security guard during my days as an undergraduate and in graduate school. While it did not pay great ($10/hour), it was worth it because I would essentially study for the entire 8 hour shift. This meant that I got my work and studies done at the same time, which enabled me to be completey present for my family while not at work. Also, when you are sitting at a desk and cannot leave, there is nothing to distract you. I would get tons of reading, writing, and just plain reflecting done. It may be something to consider as there is virtually no training, pays decently, and jobs are readily available.
> GM



Is that only night shifts?


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## Alan D. Strange (Nov 24, 2014)

I think that the wisdom of the counsel of James Helbert (Southern Presbyterian) cannot be overestimated. 

The reason that you need to consult local advice is that those who know you and your circumstances best can best advise with respect to such. I say this because your various replies seem to indicate that you think that it would, in most any case, be good for a man in preparation for gospel ministry to have a trade, both for more profitable earnings (and thus also lessening debt) as well as to be able to work with his hands. While both of these have their own virtues, it is simply not the case that anything like a universal rule can be laid down here. This is why local consultation is needed. 

In some cases, it would be, or might prove, useful; in other cases, it would be a waste of time for a man entering into the sort of work for which he is clearly most fitted. Only those that know you best and can also make the most honest and intelligent assessment of you and your gifts are those who views matter in such a case as this. 

Peace,
Alan


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## reformedminister (Nov 24, 2014)

I felt the same way you did before going to Seminary. While I wanted to devote the whole of my time to the ministry I wanted to learn a trade in case I found myself in a church that could not support me full time. This proved to be wise. I also wanted to work with my hands and became interested in house painting. I did this the summer before going to seminary. Upon graduation I found myself in the full-time ministry. However, I switched denominations and found myself out of the ministry for a couple of years. During this time I picked up painting again and started my own business. Now I am back in the ministry but in a small church that cannot afford a full-time minister. While I look forward to giving the whole of my time to the ministry, my present situation works for me. Now I only paint three days a week and hold office hours at my church during the off days.


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## gmalloy (Nov 24, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> gmalloy said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Ben,
> ...



No. In fact, I never worked the night shift. I didn't think that it would be prudent with a family. Each post has its own requirements, and I would just ask for one that it would be okay for me to read at.


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## arapahoepark (Nov 24, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > Romans922 said:
> ...



While I know where you are coming from you're really overplaying your hand. How is learning a trade while going to seminary sinful? He is pursuing his calling what lets differentiate between callings, is it internal or external? It is probably internal? How long would he have to wait for a call to a church? 
What he is doing is wise considering the fact that many who were trained to be pastors aren't even pastoring though they aspired to do so and likely still do. What if things don't quite work out at the church? What is he to do then? How will be provide for his family?
Yes, God is in control but just because one pursues pastoral ministry doesn't mean the journey won't be hard or a free pass.


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## Romans922 (Nov 24, 2014)

arap said:


> How is learning a trade while going to seminary sinful?



I didn't say that.



arap said:


> He is pursuing his calling what lets differentiate between callings, is it internal or external?



This is a man in my presbytery, and I believe his church session has seen gifts in him to pursue pastoral ministry, so there is internal but also some external.




arap said:


> What if things don't quite work out at the church?



If he is called and things don't work out...this is a contradiction.


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## Edward (Nov 24, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> If he is called and things don't work out...this is a contradiction.



I suppose this comment needs to be parsed fairly closely. You are correct in that if God has called a man to a particular ministry, then it is going to work out per God's plan. But that doesn't mean that a pastor is never going to be left holding the bag at some point, perhaps even through no fault of his own. Thus, in a temporal sense, things haven't worked out, and a prudent pastor will have prepared himself so that he can support his family through such times.


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## Romans922 (Nov 24, 2014)

Edward said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > If he is called and things don't work out...this is a contradiction.
> ...



I agree, and I've been in that situation.


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## Edward (Nov 24, 2014)

Romans922 said:


> I agree, and I've been in that situation.



That was my recollection.


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## Mushroom (Nov 25, 2014)

Locksmithing isn't a high demand trade, does require some intensive training, and expensive tools. And locksmiths don't have helpers, so you'd have to be fully qualified before anybody'd risk hiring you. The HVAC thing may be a good direction to work just as a helper. You'd make a decent wage, it's in high demand, and even if you don't pursue it any further than 6 months to a year, it'd give you good mechanical experience to carry with you into life. A good and patient tech will use his helper for more than just toting things, and will teach him quite a bit over the course of a few months.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 25, 2014)

Here is another idea: why not work for several years before going to seminary so that you can adequately support yourself when you get there without having to worry about taking on a job on the side? Doing this would permit you to give your studies your full attention. Speaking as one who has taught undergraduates, it is generally not a good idea for students' time to be taken up with other things. Okay, seminary is a bit different, especially as many divinity students pursuing ministry are married, but I think you should minimise the distractions as much as possible.


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## SolamVeritatem (Nov 25, 2014)

Ben,

I hardly ever get any feedback when I suggest this, but I'll give it a shot again anyway.

Another option to consider would be to become a reserve Air Force Chaplain. I say Air Force, because their program seems to be the most enticing, although you could consider chaplaincy in other branches of the Armed Forces. More information is available at this link:

http://www.afrc.af.mil/library/chaplain/howtojoin/candidate/index.asp

Some key benefits? $4500 annual tuition reimbursement after training, 2nd LT pay and benefits and diverse ministry training opportunities. 

I know that some people are concerned about the ecumenical nature of chaplains and how that affects their ability to take a stand for the gospel. However, those are challenges that are being faced even by those outside of military service. Please PM me if you'd like to discuss this more. I have over 16 years of military service, I'm currently on active duty with the Navy, and I've encountered and associated with Chaplains of all stripes. Just my  Take it for what it's worth...

In Him,

Craig


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## ZackF (Nov 25, 2014)

Hamalas said:


> As many of you know, I'm currently serving as a Pastoral intern with a Presbyterian church in England for a year but will be returning back home to Wichita, Kansas in June, 2015. There is no doubt in my mind that I am called to the Pastoral ministry; and like many who are so called I feel very at home in the world of ideas. Liberal arts, teaching, theology, etc... all come naturally to me. However, I believe that it is important to be confident and competent in working with your hands as well as with your mind. I also see the value in learning a trade or skill that I can use were God to ever put me in a situation where I needed to be bi-vocational etc... Practically as well, I'll (Lord willing) be getting married next summer soon after I get back and will need at least a year before I go off to seminary. I'm wondering if having a skill or trade would help me to find part-time work while in school. I also know that tradesmen can often earn more than unskilled jobs, and I think that having a trade would be of help to me just as I live life normally.
> 
> To be honest, I've always admired guys who have such a skill or trade. I know some are inclined to look down on construction guys, plumbers, electricians, mechanics, etc... but I've always felt a bit of intimidation/admiration for guys who know how to work with their hands. Probably this is because I don't have such a skill and I'd like to grow in this area.
> 
> ...



I wouldn't rule out "white collar" trades. Real estate sales (or any sales for that matter), EMT, nursing, and so forth are all jobs that are plentiful and force you to work "with your hands." Just a thought.


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## Hamalas (Nov 25, 2014)

SolamVeritatem said:


> Ben,
> 
> I hardly ever get any feedback when I suggest this, but I'll give it a shot again anyway.
> 
> ...



Thanks Craig, unfortunately I don't meet all the requirements as I haven't finished my college degree and I'm graduating from an unaccredited school anyways. Thanks for your faithful ministry and service.


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