# Length of Sermon



## Notthemama1984

What is the average length of your sermons or the sermons of your pastor? 

I have a hard time going past 25 minutes and am curious if I am really that short compared to others.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

Until I started preaching regularly I usually preached from 15-25 minutes. Now that I preach regularly I preach 30-35 minutes. 

It's like running a race and knowing what length of race you can run. It is all about training yourself to preach and knowing what your congregation can handle. I have an older congregation that could not physically handle me preaching for much longer than I do. To quote Clint Eastwood, "A man's got to know his limitations" I am not a very good preacher and I know I cannot keep a congregation's attention for much longer than I do. So I limit my exposition to 30-35 minutes, make my points and stop.


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## Tripel

Boliver,
There's no need to go over 20 or 25 minutes. Just stick to what you have. It's better than drawing it out just for the sake of having a lengthy sermon.


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## Bill The Baptist

I would definitely agree that 25 minutes of solid exposition is better than one hour of fluff.


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## elnwood

I asked my homiletics professor a similar question -- what to do if you're in churches that expect 45+ minute expository sermons?

We were taught to deliver sermons as coherent expository messages, with one main theme that is the theme of the passage, with an introduction and conclusion. My professor basically said that if you go more than 30-40 minutes doing this, it's hard to have your sermon be cohesive. The audience won't be able to stay focused for that long, and your main theme may get lost.

He advised that if I had to go longer, I should treat it not as a sermon, but really more like a teaching time, i.e. go through a passage and teach straight through it, rather than trying to form and structure an overarching cohesive message. I thought it was good advice.


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## Notthemama1984

elnwood said:


> I asked my homiletics professor a similar question -- what to do if you're in churches that expect 45+ minute expository sermons?
> 
> We were taught to deliver sermons as coherent expository messages, with one main theme that is the theme of the passage, with an introduction and conclusion. My professor basically said that if you go more than 30-40 minutes doing this, it's hard to have your sermon be cohesive. The audience won't be able to stay focused for that long, and your main theme may get lost.
> 
> He advised that if I had to go longer, I should treat it not as a sermon, but really more like a teaching time, i.e. go through a passage and teach straight through it, rather than trying to form and structure an overarching cohesive message. I thought it was good advice.



Your prof won't like Washer.


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## Scott1

The careful preaching of the Word is central to biblical worship and ought not in any sense be shortchanged.

But how long that is depends on several factors, and will always involve some subjectivity.

The post asks how long IS not really how long OUGHT.

In a 1 hour 15 minute service, 35 minutes seems to fill both counts.


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## TimV

Anything over a half hour causes more harm than good, usually. Why can't all preachers understand that?


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## Bill The Baptist

> I agree with that too, but I'm not sure anyone asserted that one should preach one hour of fluff, or half an hour, etc. I think Mr. Glaser's approach is correct. Know your own limitations and know what the congregation can handle. Go from there.



I think you are absolutely right. I was referring to a pastor feeling the need to pump up his 25 minute sermon into an hour by adding fluff. If you can preach an hour of solid material and your congregation can handle it then by all means do it, but if not then just keep it at 25 minutes.


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## gordo

25-30 mins is ideal. Some pastors I have heard preach seem to talk in circles sometimes and go on for 45+ mins when the point could have been made in 25-30 mins. Others have spoken for 45 mins + and I enjoyed every minute. Hard to say. Yesterday the pastor went close to 45 mins, yet I was very engaged as he was preaching right from scripture. We studied a Psalm and he went into great detail about it. I could see other people were bored though, which is sad. Seems many today just want a 'self help' style message. Give me a good old sermon preaching the Word anyday.


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## Jack K

Scheduled for 35 minutes in our church. Actually goes about 45 minutes most of the time.

But if you're preaching a good 25 minute sermon, that's excellent! If the sermons is good, concise is more memorable and effective. Always work first on making the material better, not longer, and you'll be a fine preacher.


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## fishingpipe

30-45 minutes for our visiting pastors (Pipa, Dyer, Carrick, Andrews, etc.) the last 12-months. Our cadidating pastor preached for the first time this Sunday morning, and I wish he would have gone for another hour. It was that good.


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## rbcbob

Chaplainintraining said:


> I have a hard time going past 25 minutes and am curious if I am really that short compared to others.



I have been accustomed to hearing 45-75 minute sermons for the past two decades. These were, more often than not, very engaging sermons. I have heard, however that some good men are conceding that the present generation is no longer equal to the task of hearing such preaching. At a recent pastors fraternal Dr. Beeke had these comments:



> Dr. Beeke also responded to a comment about our sound bite, high-tech generation and its addiction to visual stimulation through the media. He agreed that we’re ministering to a different congregation in 2011 than back in 1981, and that “more illustrations per hour” is the course of wisdom. The following of sustained, logical, abstract argumentation is less common, and therefore more challenging for this generation. He said that he often tells his pastoral students that they need to employ some kind of illustration, metaphor, or anecdote about every five minutes or else they’ll lose the attention of the average 21st century hearer.


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## Notthemama1984

> I have been accustomed to hearing 45-75 minute sermons for the past two decades. These were, more often than not, very engaging sermons. I have heard, however that some good men are conceding that the present generation is no longer equal to the task of hearing such preaching. At a recent pastors fraternal Dr. Beeke had these comments



Just to be clear, I do not stop at 25 min because that is all the congregation can handle. Rather I stop there because my natural flow tends to always stop there.


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## Joseph Scibbe

In my "perfect world" around 30 to 40 minutes would be ideal. Too much longer and the church can tend to start to wander in their minds. Much shorter and you will feel rushed.


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## jawyman

I am usually closer to the 40-45 minute mark.


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## Rufus

2 hours with a test at the end. Actually, most sermons I've visibly seen have been about 45 minutes.


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## MightyManfred

We have a two hour service, of which 40 - 50 minutes is the sermon. In the nearly 3 years my wife and I have been members at www.gracefamilybaptist.net I think I've looked at my watch once. We have 3 elders who share the preaching (and other duties) and this helps keep our focus on the message rather than the messenger. I vigorously disagree with anyone who lays down a flat limit on how a sermon should be - much of it depends on the message and on the people in the pews.


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## reaganmarsh

I typically preach about 30-35 minutes on Sunday mornings; if I hit 40 mins, then I have lost the people. Sunday evenings, we have more of the committed members who are serious about progressing in their faith, and I'm treating it as more of a teaching time (though I do structure the teaching into sermonic format, i.e., application and specific points made from the text, not merely lecturing!). They've responded well to that so far, and have typically given me 40-45 mins. Though last night, I was done in 35 again. Leave 'em wanting a little more for next week, right?


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## Romans922

I would be careful listening to any man who limits the length of a sermon, or more specifically Jesus Christ Speaking!, because it seems they may have not taken into account the Apostle Paul...


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## kvanlaan

I would echo Dr Beeke's remarks. I've been in an HNRC church where the sermon was an hour, and it never felt long, but the congregation there was also trained to listen that long. Most are not. In Sheffield, I think we're about 35 minutes and it is likewise interesting the entire way through.


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## Josh Williamson

On average I preach between 30-45 minutes. However, it depends so much on the congregation. There have been times when I've preached close to an hour and the congregation was able to handle it. At other times 20 minutes seem to be the limit. 

All in all, I think we need to "exegete" our congregations to see what they can handle, if they can handle more "feeding" from the sermon, then give it to them. If they struggle with a little bit of food, then feed them what they need. But I would always be seeking to stretch them and the sermon time. 

The best advice I got on preaching was when I was in theological college, my professor said, "If you run out of things to say in 20 minutes then sit down and shut up. Since we don't want to hear you ramble. But if you have something to say for 40 or 50 minutes then keep preaching. Just don't ramble!"


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## Reformed Roman

I think it's ideal for me to go 30-35 minutes. I agree with many here and think that many sermons are too long. Many pastors make sermons longer just to make them longer. I'd much rather here a shorter sermon that drives the point home. Sometimes a longer sermon is needed, but for the most part I enjoy a good 30 minute sermon.

---------- Post added at 12:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:12 AM ----------

A good example would be when I listen to Renewing Your Mind by R.C Sproul. It's practically the perfect length. I know he is teaching, and that's a little different, but during that time he brings the best points out and helps teach me a ton and leave edified.


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## Andres

For those who preach based on how much their "congregation can handle", what does this mean exactly? How do you judge what the congregation needs/wants in the length of their sermon?


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## Herald

> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . but the congregation there was also trained to listen that long. Most are not.
> 
> 
> 
> And _this _is the key. We've purported the idea, somehow, that listening for the voice of the Shepherd in the preaching of the Word is somehow simple and passive. It's not! It's hard work. It's one of those duties which we are to take up every sabbath day. We are to work hard at being diligent in the listening of the sermons, because the purpose is to garner _uses_, _conversations_, and _application_ thereof for during the week. So the preacher works diligently at sermonizing, the congregation should work diligently at becoming better listeners . . . and an expectation, as well as facilitation, should be raised that listening _well_ is the duty of a hearer, and that the finding of the capacity of the congregation is the labor of the preacher. Consider the Larger Catechism:
> Q. 159. How is the Word of God to be preached by those that are called thereunto?
> A. They that are called to labor in the ministry of the Word are to preach
> sound doctrine, diligently, in season, and out of season; plainly, not in the
> enticing words of man’s wisdom but in demonstration of the Spirit, and of
> power; faithfully, making known the whole counsel of God; wisely, applying
> themselves to the necessities and capacities of the hearers; zealously, with
> fervent love to God and the souls of his people; sincerely, aiming at his glory,
> and their conversion, edification, and salvation.
> 
> Titus 2:1, 8; Acts 18:25; 2 Tim. 4:2; 1 Cor. 14:19; 1 Cor. 2:4; Jer. 23:28; 1 Cor.
> 4:1-2; Acts 20:27; Col. 1:28; 2 Tim. 2:15; 1 Cor. 3:2; Heb. 5:12-14; Luke 12:42;
> Acts 18:25; 2 Cor. 5:13-14; Phil. 1:15-17; Col. 4:12; 2 Cor. 12:15; 2 Cor. 2:17; 2
> Cor. 4:2; 1 Thess. 2:4-6; John 7:18; 1 Cor. 9:19-22; 2 Cor. 12:19; Eph. 4:12; 1
> Tim. 4:16; Acts 26:16-18.
> 
> Q. 160. What is required of those that hear the Word preached?
> A. It is required of those that hear the Word preached, that they attend
> upon it with diligence, preparation, and prayer; examine what they hear by
> the Scriptures; receive the truth with faith, love, meekness, and readiness of
> mind, as the Word of God; meditate, and confer of it; hide it in their hearts,
> and bring forth the fruit of it in their lives.
> 
> Prov. 8:34; 1 Pet. 2:1-2; Luke 8:18; Ps. 119:18; Eph. 6:18-19; Acts 17:11; Heb. 4:2;
> 2 Thess. 2:10; Jas. 1:21; Acts 17:11; 1 Thess. 2:13; Luke 9:44; Heb. 2:1; Luke 24:14;
> Deut. 6:6-7; Prov. 2:1; Ps.119:11; Luke 8:15; Jas. 1:25.​
Click to expand...


Josh, thank you for this. 

One my most oft repeated refrains to my congregation is a charge to be active participants in the preaching of the Word. When I am behind the pulpit it is my responsibility to preach, it is the congregation's responsibility to, "receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls" (James 1:21). Neither the preacher nor the congregation are passive participants in worship.


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## Josh Williamson

Andres said:


> For those who preach based on how much their "congregation can handle", what does this mean exactly? How do you judge what the congregation needs/wants in the length of their sermon?



G'day Andrew,

The example I would give of what a congregation can handle would be this; When I first started in the pastorate the church I was called to had no biblical knowledge and had only been receiving 10 minute "self-esteem" talks. As a result they didn't know their Bible, nor could they handle longer sermons. Over the period of the year I slowly built up their biblical knowledge by expository preaching, and by lengthening the sermons. I also constantly talked to the congregation afterward to see what they understood and grasped. As their biblical knowledge grew so did the sermon.


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## MightyManfred

*Good counsel!*

This thread is a good conversation! Reading book on preaching is good; discussing the dirty details with others is also beneficial. Martin Lloyd Jones, for one, presses the point that the preacher must know his people and lead them as he teaches them and preached to them.


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## CharlieJ

One thing to keep in mind is that a healthy church will have a diversity of people in it. To use a crude metaphor, on the "sactification scale," a healthy church will have everything from 0 (unchurched visitor) to 10 (whatever you think is a ten). Although preaching is primarily directed to growing, serious church members, it's wise not to exclude anybody on the scale. 

I fear that some churches attempt to grow spiritually by effectively cutting off the bottom of the scale and disrupting the natural evangelism and growth cycle. If you look around and see that everyone in your church has been a Christian for decades, knows the Bible thoroughly, and regularly reads (or blogs!) theology, I actually think that is an indication that a church is unhealthy. If that's the case, it may be that signals are being sent from the pulpit or from other church members implying, "If you don't know A, B, C, and can't follow X, Y, and Z, this really isn't the church for you." People pick up on that quickly and will move elsewhere. 

All that to say, the length of sermon is one more variable that has to be determined by both love and wisdom.


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## MightyManfred

Good point, Charlie. This is why we must make clear the Gospel in each sermon. The whole of Scripture is about Christ and His people so the Gospel is always near to any text. We need the Gospel for sanctification and lost folk need it for salvation (if it please the Lord).


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## rbcbob

Herald said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . but the congregation there was also trained to listen that long. Most are not.
> 
> 
> 
> And _this _is the key. We've purported the idea, somehow, that listening for the voice of the Shepherd in the preaching of the Word is somehow simple and passive. It's not! It's hard work. It's one of those duties which we are to take up every sabbath day. We are to work hard at being diligent in the listening of the sermons, because the purpose is to garner _uses_, _conversations_, and _application_ thereof for during the week. So the preacher works diligently at sermonizing, the congregation should work diligently at becoming better listeners . . . and an expectation, as well as facilitation, should be raised that listening _well_ is the duty of a hearer, and that the finding of the capacity of the congregation is the labor of the preacher. Consider the Larger Catechism:
> Q. 159. How is the Word of God to be preached by those that are called thereunto?
> A. They that are called to labor in the ministry of the Word are to preach
> sound doctrine, diligently, in season, and out of season; plainly, not in the
> enticing words of man’s wisdom but in demonstration of the Spirit, and of
> power; faithfully, making known the whole counsel of God; wisely, applying
> themselves to the necessities and capacities of the hearers; zealously, with
> fervent love to God and the souls of his people; sincerely, aiming at his glory,
> and their conversion, edification, and salvation.
> 
> Titus 2:1, 8; Acts 18:25; 2 Tim. 4:2; 1 Cor. 14:19; 1 Cor. 2:4; Jer. 23:28; 1 Cor.
> 4:1-2; Acts 20:27; Col. 1:28; 2 Tim. 2:15; 1 Cor. 3:2; Heb. 5:12-14; Luke 12:42;
> Acts 18:25; 2 Cor. 5:13-14; Phil. 1:15-17; Col. 4:12; 2 Cor. 12:15; 2 Cor. 2:17; 2
> Cor. 4:2; 1 Thess. 2:4-6; John 7:18; 1 Cor. 9:19-22; 2 Cor. 12:19; Eph. 4:12; 1
> Tim. 4:16; Acts 26:16-18.
> 
> Q. 160. What is required of those that hear the Word preached?
> A. It is required of those that hear the Word preached, that they attend
> upon it with diligence, preparation, and prayer; examine what they hear by
> the Scriptures; receive the truth with faith, love, meekness, and readiness of
> mind, as the Word of God; meditate, and confer of it; hide it in their hearts,
> and bring forth the fruit of it in their lives.
> 
> Prov. 8:34; 1 Pet. 2:1-2; Luke 8:18; Ps. 119:18; Eph. 6:18-19; Acts 17:11; Heb. 4:2;
> 2 Thess. 2:10; Jas. 1:21; Acts 17:11; 1 Thess. 2:13; Luke 9:44; Heb. 2:1; Luke 24:14;
> Deut. 6:6-7; Prov. 2:1; Ps.119:11; Luke 8:15; Jas. 1:25.​
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Josh, thank you for this.
> 
> One my most oft repeated refrains to my congregation is a charge to be active participants in the preaching of the Word. When I am behind the pulpit it is my responsibility to preach, it is the congregation's responsibility to, "receive the word implanted, which is able to save your souls" (James 1:21). Neither the preacher nor the congregation are passive participants in worship.
Click to expand...


Josh & Bill,
I am whole *heartedly with you men* on this. We have made no conscious effort to shorten our sermons based on the downward trend in American listening habits/abilities. But I do wonder what the unconverted visitor's response will be to good sermons as this downward trend continues. Any thoughts?


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## Curt

TimV said:


> Anything over a half hour causes more harm than good, usually. Why can't all preachers understand that?



With some "preachers" anything over 5 minutes is harmful. I do not know of any evidence to support the claim that this is the case in all sermons longer than 30 minutes.


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## JP Wallace

I think this is a difficult subject to handle. On one hand, yes our generation's 'attention span' is short, but so is their theological appetite depth (i.e Christian's). We should not pander to low/lazy expectations, neither should we assume or expect such a generation to be able to take and benefit from long/deep sermons, without training, prayer and hard work from we preachers'.

However I do think there is a limit to how deep a preacher can go, how much spiritual knowledge a man can impart in 20 mins or even 25 (please brother Boliver do not take that as a judgment on you or anyone else). The Apostle expresses a desire that God's people grow in their ability to digest strong meat and not merely drink milk and so I believe we should try and encourage and develop people's desire for the Word, and encoruage them to actively prepare to feed on the Word and to actively exert spiritual and physical energy in the listening to God's Word. (see Larger Catechism quoted above). (Heb 5:12-14)

I was recently preaching on 2 Samuel 24

2 Samuel 24:24 24 Then the king said to Araunah, "No, but I will surely buy it from you for a price; nor will I offer burnt offerings to the LORD my God with that which costs me nothing." So David bought the threshing floor and the oxen for fifty shekels of silver. 

One of the applications I made was that there is a 'cost' to faithful, acceptable, worship and one of them is to pay the cost of putting away our desires and wants in worship, to pay the cost of time and energy in preparation and participation for and in worship. This is something we should encourage in our congregations. We should not however expect them just to be that way. We also observe in Malachi that one of the reasons God is angry with Israel is their attitude towards worship.

Malachi 1:13-14 13 You also say, 'Oh, what a weariness!' And you sneer at it," Says the LORD of hosts. "And you bring the stolen, the lame, and the sick; Thus you bring an offering! Should I accept this from your hand?" Says the LORD. 14 "But cursed be the deceiver Who has in his flock a male, And takes a vow, But sacrifices to the Lord what is blemished -- For I am a great King," Says the LORD of hosts, "And My name is to be feared among the nations. 

Let us encourage our people to fight such an attitude that finds listening to God's Word preached a weariness!

I would also wonder about something else. While acknowledging that the pulpit is not any competitor to Hollywood in any way, I do think there is a problem when our people can sit captivated by 2 hours of a movie, yet find 30 minutes of communion with God in His Word too much. Believe me, I include myself in the same criticism. My concern is that we should fight this because I think at core there is a spiritual problem in us where this is the case.

Also be sure I am not equating strong meat teaching to length, merely saying that there is a limit to how much strong meat can be served in a short time. I still think a ideal length is about 40 to 45 minutes. 

I will usually aim at an interesting, introduction and/or recap of 5-8 minutes, a conclusion of 5 minutes or so (maybe less) with the core exposition and application of about 25 minutes.

I do think we should include our personality, ability, experience etc. in the assessment as well, as has already been noted.


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## reformedminister

Typically 35-40 minutes for me. I try to be sensitive to the congregation I preach to. There have been times that I have only preached half my sermon in thirty minutes and try to wrap it up into a conclusion rather than go over 45 minutes.


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## but3leftsdo

Our pastor's last name is "Long", but he rarely lives up to it. Usually it's 25 to 35 minutes pretty consistently.


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## greenbaggins

I am usually at the half-hour mark. There are 20 minute preachers and there are 45 minute preachers, and there are hour preachers (but I tend to think of these as rare). Limitations is one word that has been used in this thread. Another way of putting it would be "how long a preacher are you?" One needs to examine one's rhythm and cadence, speed of talking (for instance, Derek Thomas preaches 45 minutes, but the raw word count might be the same as that of someone who speaks more quickly; Derek likes the weight of pauses between sentences), and yes, the needs and customs of the congregation (although the word about "stretching" is very needful here). Like someone else on this thread has already said, though, concentrate on making your message unified, coherent, and lively, and the length will be what it needs to be. I found T. David Gordon's book Why Johnny Can't Preach to be an enormously helpful book (even though it is difficult to recommend it to preachers on account of the possibly offensive title!).


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## MightyManfred

_Why Johnny Can't Preach_ is on the list of books we (men in our elder training program) must read during year two. I recently read the author's _Why Johnny Can't Sing Hymns_ and found it most helpful - and convicting.


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## Wannabee

The constant struggle is to preach long enough to be clear and drive the point home as well as possible. The constant struggle is to resist including information that is edifying in the study but not in the sermon. A good sermon is just as much about what is kept out of it as it is about what's in it. 

When I first started preaching I felt like I had to include a vast amount of information with each message. Some were good. But some were tedious as well. More recently my challenge seems to be at the other end of the spectrum. I have been preaching generally shorter messages but I may be including too much information that might be better left out so that I could condense a 5 message series into 3 messages. And no sermon is complete until it's been preached. Even then, I've only preached a couple of sermons that, when I was done, I was satisfied with.

Our congregation is very knowledgeable about Scripture and doctrine, so I have freedoms many don't enjoy. Sometimes I dig into the passage and speak on a more academic level because I know that almost all of them understand what I'm talking about. With our small congregation, if there is a visitor I'll often make sure to explain things in a way that isn't always necessary with our group.

My shortest sermon is probably around 30 minutes, and I have gone over an hour. I've preached 30 minutes that felt like 2 hours before, and I've preached over an hour before and it felt like 20 minutes. I've seen people fall asleep during the message and I've had people tell me that the 55 minute message I just preached seemed awfully short. I've even had a couple of sermons that I almost fell asleep during. Preaching is a dynamic two-way communication in which only one person speaks.


For since, in the wisdom of God, the world through wisdom did not know God, it pleased God through the foolishness of the message preached to save those who believe.
1 Corinthians 1:21


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## au5t1n

Attention span for me really depends on the quality of the preaching. In different churches, I have either been begging for more after an hour of preaching, or I have been begging for a closing prayer after 20 minutes.


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## MightyManfred

Austin - I've had the same experience, and discovered that when a man is preaching the Word of God, I stay tuned in and want more. When he is using the Word of God as a prop for talk about X, I want to beat the Methodists to the BBQ joint.


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## JBaldwin

Our pastor preaches 25-35 minutes depending on whether or not we have communion. He used to be concerned when the sermons got a little too long, but I think several of us have finally convinced him that it's OK to go a little longer when he needs to make a point. It's been a real pleasure to sit under a pastor who is good enough that I rarely notice the time pass, and if I hadn't asked him once how long the sermons went, I wouldn't even know. 

When I was a teenager, I sat under a pastor who preached for 45-60 minutes every Sunday morning, and then preached another 35-45 minutes on Sunday evening. Someone mentioned the expository approach for longer sermons. I don't think this pastor ever preached a thematic sermon. He always went through a passage verse by verse. This was a Baptist church, but the pastor's background was Dutch Reformed, and even though I didn't always agree with his interpretation, I have not since sat under a preacher who was more thorough.


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## rookie

I see it that it all depends on the topic, the text, and the sermon. Some topics can be completely covered in 25 minutes, others, you need 10 lectures of 70 minutes each.

Some topics, are much deeper than others.


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## Kevin

I used to preach for 35-45 minutes. Now after a few years and 300 or so sermons I find that I can say more in 25-30 minutes.

A sermon is a bit like a sculpture (in my opinion) it is not so much what you leave in that makes the impact, as it is what you take out.


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