# Quick history question



## Notthemama1984 (Dec 24, 2010)

I am reading a book on reformation theology and in passing the author mentions that Anabaptists rejected all forms of paedobaptism and believed in credobaptism. The way the author words it he implies that they were the first in history to believe in credobaptism. 

Is it true that they are the first?


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## Wayne (Dec 24, 2010)

Quick history answer: "1639"

EDIT: Obviously one who is convinced of credobaptism will argue that the first recorded instances of the practice appear on the pages of Scripture. What is sometimes labeled the "trail of blood" literature will strive to draw an unbroken line from the New Testament on through the centuries into the modern era. 

Conversely, one who is convinced of paedobaptism will come up with a date later than the immediate New Testament era. In the latter case, answers would vary. 

All of which is not my strong suite; didn't at least some of the Waldensians practice credobaptism? That would give you a date centuries earlier than the Reformation era Anabaptists (Menno, etc.).

Where is Waldo, anyway?


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## Phil D. (Dec 24, 2010)

Wayne said:


> Quick history answer: "1639"



Just curious, but why would you emphasize this particular date?


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 24, 2010)

You can find anyone on facebook.

Where's Waldo? | Facebook


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## Wayne (Dec 24, 2010)

Phil:

Joke! A "Quick History Question" deserves a "Quick History Answer". And that was the first one that occurred to me.


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## Phil D. (Dec 24, 2010)

Wayne said:


> Phil:
> 
> Joke! A "Quick History Question" deserves a "Quick History Answer". And that was the first one that occurred to me.


 
Ah, I can be a bit slow sometimes...


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## Wayne (Dec 24, 2010)

Chaplainintraining said:


> You can find anyone on facebook.
> 
> Where's Waldo? | Facebook


 
I've wondered if the inspiration for the Where's Waldo material might have derived from the RCC persecution of the Vaudois and their constant searches to find them in the 12th-14th centuries. Too much of a stretch?

EDIT: Yep. Too much of a stretch:



> Where's Wally?, published in the United States and Canada as Where's Waldo?, is a series of children's books created by British illustrator Martin Handford.



But maybe there's still time to rescue the concept and turn it into some sort of gimmick for teaching church history?


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## Grimmson (Dec 24, 2010)

Chaplainintraining said:


> I am reading a book on reformation theology and in passing the author mentions that Anabaptists rejected all forms of paedobaptism and believed in credobaptism. The way the author words it he implies that they were the first in history to believe in credobaptism.
> 
> Is it true that they are the first?


 
I don’t think it would be fair to say in the strictest sense in history that all children were baptized at least during the Patristic period. We all know that Augustine and Chrysostom were baptized as confessing adults. Chrysostom’s mother was extremely devote and was well known for it in Antioch. I been wondering if the reason why these two were not baptized was because of Chrysostom’s father, who died during Chrysostom’s infancy, and Augustine’s father were both pagans. Also one needs to consider Jerome, Gregory of Nazianzus, and Basil of Caesarea because they all grew up in Christian homes with both parents as believers. Granted these individuals defended the paedo position, but the fact they were not baptized as infants should raise some flags. Patrick, commonly called St. Patrick of Ireland, was a son of a deacon (also Patrick’s grandfather was a pastor I think) and was not baptized as an infant according to his Confessions. So to say that all members of believing familied baptized their children would be a lie. It looks like there was some credo practice that took place and was accepted even though infant baptism was defended or perfered in some cases. Also I have read the claim that Ambrose of Milan’s mother was a believer and that Ambrose was not baptized. I know nothing of his father. Ambrose may be important because there has been the claim that he was baptized himself as an adult. The completion of catechism training was quite common prior to baptism for those wishing to convert to Christianity. There is the question of such training was required for children as well before they were baptized, and thus opening the door to the creedo position. The information that has survived is limited and inferences must sometimes be made by the scattered data for a more complete story. The reason why I am against things like political or religious book burning is it increases the lose of information on top of the many resources that would be lost naturally in time. Therefore I wouldn’t say it would come from the Anabaptist, but this is not to defend the Trail of Blood thesis.


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## Notthemama1984 (Dec 24, 2010)

Thanks for the info. I did not think Anabaptists were the first, but wasn't sure. Now I can go to class in a few weeks and discuss this.


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