# Preterist



## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

How common in the Reformed faith would the belief that Revelation 20: 11-15 has already happened or is taking place now?


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 8, 2023)

In principle, you will not find them as it is against he confessions. But there are always anomalies

Reactions: Like 2


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

Yes I do find it odd. How could I find where in the confessions it talks of this?
I'm led to believe that it wouldn't be heresy but rather a wrong understanding of scripture?


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 8, 2023)

Barney said:


> Yes I do find it odd. How could I find where in the confessions it talks of this?
> I'm led to believe that it wouldn't be heresy but rather a wrong understanding of scripture?


The main confessions on the Last Judgment?


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

I'll take a look. Thanks.
I wonder if the 39 articles are as Reformed as the WCF?


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 8, 2023)

Barney said:


> I'll take a look. Thanks.
> I wonder if the 39 articles are as Reformed as the WCF?


I was wondering on the intention of your investigation, but this goes beyond Reformed theology to orthodoxy; see Apostles Creed


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

Polanus1561 said:


> I was wondering on the intention of your investigation, but this goes beyond Reformed theology to orthodoxy; see Apostles Creed


I'm a learner. A minister and I respectfully debate/talk about 'Protestant/Reformed Theology. 
He said he is partial preterist and believes Revelation 20: 11-15 has either past or is present. Not future.
So I'm exploring it.


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 8, 2023)

Barney said:


> I'm a learner. A minister and I respectfully debate/talk about 'Protestant/Reformed Theology.
> He said he is partial preterist and believes Revelation 20: 11-15 has either past or is present. Not future.
> So I'm exploring it.


What confession does he hold onto?


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

I'm not sure what the difference between Reformed and Orthodoxy is. Could you summarize it?


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

Polanus1561 said:


> What confession does he hold onto?


I need to ask him more questions. He did say this morning that his church holds to the church of England 39 articles of religion.


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## Phil D. (Jan 8, 2023)

Maybe ask your friend to comment on Article 4 (of the Thirty-Nine Articles).

Of the Resurrection of Christ.
Christ did truly rise again from death, and took again his body, with flesh, bones, and all things appertaining to the perfection of Man's nature; wherewith he ascended into Heaven, and there sitteth, until he return to judge all Men at the last day.


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## Polanus1561 (Jan 8, 2023)

Phil D. said:


> Maybe ask your friend to comment on Article 4 (of the Thirty-Nine Articles).
> 
> Of the Resurrection of Christ.
> Christ did truly rise again from death, and took again his body, with flesh, bones, and all things appertaining to the perfection of Man's nature; wherewith he ascended into Heaven, and there sitteth, until he return to judge all Men at the last day.


The logical question is that the framers of the article obviously did not see the last day as being past or present in their day. Thus, what has changed since then that we can say the last day is now past or present.


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

Phil D. said:


> Maybe ask your friend to comment on Article 4 (of the Thirty-Nine Articles).
> 
> Of the Resurrection of Christ.
> Christ did truly rise again from death, and took again his body, with flesh, bones, and all things appertaining to the perfection of Man's nature; wherewith he ascended into Heaven, and there sitteth, until he return to judge all Men at the last day.


I certainly will. 
I also want to ask my friend when he thinks those verses came to pass. He said all of Revelation has past. Although still believes a bodily resurrection and second advent is still to happen. 
I'm sure someone else on pb said this wasn't heresy.
How does the Reformed faith define or determine whether something is heresy?


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## Phil D. (Jan 8, 2023)

Barney said:


> How does the Reformed faith define or determine whether something is heresy?



This thread should be helpful.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Barney (Jan 8, 2023)

That thread is helpful.
I'm sure his heart and intentions are in the right place. We can all learn.


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## arapahoepark (Jan 8, 2023)

It be could that you friend finds all of Revelation to be fulfilled in 70 AD (or like the bizarre emergent Perriman fulfilled in the end of Christendom) and so all of it is metaphorical of that event. Meanwhile, he follows Paul and Jesus literally with regard to the last judgment. That's a charitable reading. I don't know how, taking the analogy and clarity of Scripture, they can be held in tandem without some sort of slippery slope trajectory toward full preterism.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 8, 2023)

Barney said:


> I certainly will.
> I also want to ask my friend when he thinks those verses came to pass. He said all of Revelation has past. Although still believes a bodily resurrection and second advent is still to happen.
> I'm sure someone else on pb said this wasn't heresy.
> How does the Reformed faith define or determine whether something is heresy?



If he holds to a future resurrection, then he isn't a heretic on this point. That said, those who say that all of Revelation is fulfilled usually end up denying the resurrection.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Monday at 10:51 AM)

It sounds to me like "friend" is a partial-preterist using vague terminology, rather than a full preterist, which as has been pointed out, is heresy.

Reactions: Like 1


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## TylerRay (Monday at 11:04 AM)

Barney said:


> How common in the Reformed faith would the belief that Revelation 20: 11-15 has already happened or is taking place now?


You may want to ask your friend to clarify. It's quite common in Reformed circles to hold that Rev 20:1-6 is past/present, but that 20:11-15 is future. Perhaps that's his position.


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## Barney (Monday at 2:20 PM)

As far as I could understand his position, he regards all of Revelation as past but also in a future physical resurrection and second coming. I will continue to talk with him and try and influence in sound doctrine.


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