# Mary



## blhowes (May 4, 2006)

Today, I was listening to an easter cantata I had sung in years ago. As I listened, I started daydreaming and thinking about Mary. She'd be an interesting person to talk with someday, all the things that must have gone through her mind starting from the angel's announcement of Jesus' birth, delivering him, watching him grow up, seeing Him crucified, and somewhere along the way realizing that He's not just her 'little boy', but the savior of the world and her savior.

Anyway, I was just curious if anybody knows what's known about Mary after the resurrection. Where'd she live, how'd she die, etc.?


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## turmeric (May 4, 2006)

I think I read somewhere that John the Apostle took her with him to Ephesus.


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## DTK (May 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by blhowes_
> Today, I was listening to an easter cantata I had sung in years ago. As I listened, I started daydreaming and thinking about Mary. She'd be an interesting person to talk with someday, all the things that must have gone through her mind starting from the angel's announcement of Jesus' birth, delivering him, watching him grow up, seeing Him crucified, and somewhere along the way realizing that He's not just her 'little boy', but the savior of the world and her savior.
> 
> Anyway, I was just curious if anybody knows what's known about Mary after the resurrection. Where'd she live, how'd she die, etc.?



A voice from tradition...

*Epiphanius of Salamis (310/320-403) comments:* "œIf any think I am mistaken, moreover, let them search through the Scriptures and neither find Mary´s death, nor whether or not she died, nor whether or not she was buried"”even though John surely traveled throughout Asia. And yet, nowhere does he say that he took the holy Virgin with him. Scripture simply kept silence because of the overwhelming wonder, not to throw men´s minds into consternation. For I dare not say"”though I have my suspicions, I keep silent." Frank Williams, trans., _The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis: Book II and III_ (Sects 47-80, De Fide) 78. Against Antidicomarians, 78.11 (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1994), pp. 609. PG 42:737.

*Epiphanius of Salamis (310/320-403):* The holy virgin may have died and been buried"”her falling asleep was with honor, her death in purity, her crown in virginity. Or she may have been put to death"”as the Scripture says, "œAnd a sword shall pierce her soul""” her fame is among the martyrs and her holy body, by which light rose on the world, [rests] amid blessings. Or she may have remained alive, for God is not incapable of doing whatever he wills. *No one knows her end*. But we must not honor the saints to excess; we must honor their Master. Frank Williams, trans., _The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis: Book II and III_ (Sects 47-80, De Fide) 78. Against Antidicomarians, 78. 23 (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1994), p. 619.

DTK


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## blhowes (May 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by DTK_
> A voice from tradition...
> 
> *Epiphanius of Salamis (310/320-403) comments:* "œIf any think I am mistaken, moreover, let them search through the Scriptures and neither find Mary´s death, nor whether or not she died, nor whether or not she was buried"”even though John surely traveled throughout Asia. And yet, nowhere does he say that he took the holy Virgin with him. Scripture simply kept silence because of the overwhelming wonder, not to throw men´s minds into consternation. For I dare not say"”though I have my suspicions, I keep silent." Frank Williams, trans., _The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis: Book II and III_ (Sects 47-80, De Fide) 78. Against Antidicomarians, 78.11 (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1994), pp. 609. PG 42:737.
> ...


Interesting. Just enough mystery to allow for some of the teachings of the catholic church regarding her. Or, enough mystery for one to think she wasn't that closely watched and didn't play such a prominent role in the early church.


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## Semper Fidelis (May 4, 2006)

I wish Roman Catholics would regard the last sentence of Epiphanius. Mariolatry is rampant.


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## BobVigneault (May 4, 2006)

I had to share this when I saw Bob's post topic. It's a song I wrote a few years ago for an upcoming cd. A cd to be released when my fastidious producer thinks it's ready (months, years, after Jesus returns.) Please understand this is a rough mixed/pre-mastered recording with WAY too much reverb. My wife/producer will skin me alive if she finds out I made it semi-public.

'Gold, Frankencense and Myrrh' is a song about Mary but foremost it's a song about the mixed bag of components that make up parenting. The preciousness of gold mixed with the sorrow represented by the funeral association of myrrh. If you get the time, dl it and take a listen.

http://esnips.com/web/maxdetail-mp3s

[Edited on 5-4-2006 by BobVigneault]


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## blhowes (May 4, 2006)

Other Bob,
That was excellent. I really enjoyed it.
Bob


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## BobVigneault (May 4, 2006)

Thank you other other Bob, I'm glad you did.


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## ReformedWretch (May 4, 2006)

Yea, that's pretty good. Nice work Bob.


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## BobVigneault (May 4, 2006)

Thanks Adam, nice avatar. Originally I had 'Bouncer' in red, a darker red and it didn't show up well. You've got a nice hue there, well done.


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## ReformedWretch (May 4, 2006)

The avatar is 85% your work. I simply tweaked it a bit. My wife shaped up the new hair cut last night and I wanted to use an updated pic.


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## blhowes (May 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SemperFideles_
> I wish Roman Catholics would regard the last sentence of Epiphanius. Mariolatry is rampant.


I do, as I'm sure Mary would, agree with you.


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## DTK (May 4, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SemperFideles_
> I wish Roman Catholics would regard the last sentence of Epiphanius. Mariolatry is rampant.


Yes, and Epiphanius also repudiated specifically a certain title that Romanists use of Mary today.

*Epiphanius (310/320-403):* Let no one eat of the error which has arisen on St. Mary´s account. Even though "˜The tree is lovely´ it is not for food; and even though Mary is all fair, and is holy and held in honor, she is not to be worshiped. . . . *They must not say, "˜We honor the queen of heaven.´* Frank Williams, trans., _The Panarion of Epiphanius of Salamis: Book II and III_ (Sects 47-80, De Fide) 79. Against Collyridians, 7,7; 8,2 (Leiden: E.J. Brill, 1994), p. 627.

DTK


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## VirginiaHuguenot (May 4, 2006)

There is nothing new under the sun. 

Jer. 7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the *queen of heaven*, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger. 

Jer. 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the *queen of heaven*, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil. 

Pope Pius IX, December 8, 1854: "Let all the children of the Catholic Church, who are so very dear to us, hear these words of ours. With a still more ardent zeal for piety, religion and love, let them continue to venerate, invoke and pray to the most Blessed Virgin Mary, Mother of God, conceived without original sin. Let them fly with utter confidence to this most sweet Mother of mercy and grace in all dangers, difficulties, needs, doubts and fears. Under her guidance, under her patronage, under her kindness and protection, nothing is to be feared; nothing is hopeless. Because, while bearing toward us a truly motherly affection and having in her care the work of our salvation, she is solicitous about the whole human race. And since she has been appointed by God to be the Queen of heaven and earth, and is exalted above all the choirs of angels and saints, and even stands at the right hand of her only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ our Lord, she presents our petitions in a most efficacious manner. What she asks, she obtains. Her pleas can never be unheard."

Pope Pius XII, October 11, 1954: "Now, in the accomplishing of this work of redemption, the Blessed Virgin Mary was most closely associated with Christ; and so it is fitting to sing in the sacred liturgy: "Near the cross of Our Lord Jesus Christ there stood, sorrowful, the Blessed Mary, Queen of Heaven and Queen of the World."[46] Hence, as the devout disciple of St. Anselm (Eadmer, ed.) wrote in the Middle Ages: "just as . . . God, by making all through His power, is Father and Lord of all, so the blessed Mary, by repairing all through her merits, is Mother and Queen of all; for God is the Lord of all things, because by His command He establishes each of them in its own nature, and Mary is the Queen of all things, because she restores each to its original dignity through the grace which she merited.[47]"

It's amazing how carried away some people have gotten with Mariolatry. Witness Bonaventura's rendering of Ps. 1.1: "Blessed is the man who loves thee, O Virgin Mary. Thy grace will comfort his soul."

[Edited on 5-4-2006 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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