# Critical theory, politics and religion



## A.Joseph (May 14, 2019)

(Discussion on Social Justice using clips from a talk at Reformed seminary by Dr. Mika Edmondson, an OPC minister, as discussion starters.)
^ ^ ^
This is interesting - near the end during the coverage of the q&a portion I believe a student asks about using a theonomous context to promote social justice in the church which I perceive morphed into a concern of a promotion of a type of non orthodox form of theonomy in the present which probably more closely resembles a liberation theology inspired society
https://presbycast.libsyn.com/on-social-justice-with-forfare-davis

I’m not even sure the identity politics style seduction of critical theory as employed by the Democrats is in any way beneficial to black Americans, they sure have a lot of competition for implied oppression including illegal immigrants (and lgbt) as far as today’s Democratic Party is concerned. I think the church should be inclusive while maintaining its biblical standards. I don’t think that will be good enough for those who want to overthrow the established order and want to flip the church in their effort to do so. (If the overthrow would include the lgbt and pro abortion lobby it would at least look a little more appealing)

“Men or nations who think they can revive the Faith in order to make a good society might just as well think they can use the stairs of Heaven as a short cut to the nearest chemist's shop ...it is quite easy to coax humans round this little corner.” -C.S. Lewis


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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

I see so much of what he promotes as being highly problematic. He is dangerously close to embracing a full blown liberation theology agenda....

https://twitter.com/mika_edmondson?lang=en


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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

littlepeople said:


> I haven't listened to the podcast, but what's the problem with the first tweet? Seems like it would be problematic to deny that. What am I missing?


He’s elevating cultural embodiness. He is arguing black supremacy?, he is arguing special considerations. They were never not special in that they are created in God’s image. But I don’t expect the world to ever get that. They may use them for its own means, but he is promoting a heaven on earth social gospel or maybe a radical political agenda. Both will never occur. It will always be about the haves in our current day. The haves are merely shrinking to the very, very top of supremacy...

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## Taylor (May 15, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> He is arguing black supremacy...



I would be careful here, brother. Pastor Edmondson, aside from being a minister of the gospel in your and my own denomination (and is thus to be respected), is also a good friend of my pastor. Do not get me wrong, Pastor Edmondson is saying some very disturbing things that ought to cause concern, even great concern, but we should be very careful about accusing anyone, much less a minister, of anything so serious as advocating black supremacy unless we have some very hard and explicit evidence. I think that is the least the ninth commandment requires of us, especially given the WLC's exposition of it.

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## Kinghezy (May 15, 2019)

Anyone can be fully accepted and *affirmed* in God’s household as a co-equal in Christ,* in all their cultural embodiedness.*

I am curious what this means. Without other context, to me it seems like it is saying we can accept anyone as they are. Is that just an uncharitable reading with a sloppy tweet?


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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> I would be careful here, brother. Pastor Edmondson, aside from being a minister of the gospel in your and my own denomination (and is thus to be respected), is also a good friend of my pastor. Do not get me wrong, Pastor Edmondson is saying some very disturbing things that ought to cause concern, even great concern, but we should be very careful about accusing anyone, much less a minister, of anything so serious as advocating black supremacy unless we have some very hard and explicit evidence. I think that is the least the ninth commandment requires of us, especially given the WLC's exposition of it.


Maybe I’m commiting a genetic fallacy but if he’s down with liberation theology I’m pretty close. But I also feel the path he’s on is one based in extreme genetic fallacy


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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

Kinghezy said:


> Anyone can be fully accepted and *affirmed* in God’s household as a co-equal in Christ,* in all their cultural embodiedness.*
> 
> I am curious what this means. Without other context, to me it seems like it is saying we can accept anyone as they are. Is that just an uncharitable reading with a sloppy tweet?


What was wrong with the tweet he quoted in the first place?


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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

Just to clarify, when I say black supremacy, I’m using a religious context. I would say dispensationalists promote a type of Jewish supremacy. Any placing of a cultural, national, ethnic group above individuals or the collective church is a promotion of ‘supremacy’, no? I’m not saying the man is a black nationalist, or the like. But being an opc minister does not provide cover, it leaves him open to greater scrutiny. I appreciate that he’s sensitive to minority issues but where is it truly coming from and where is he taking it?

I’m not saying he believes white people are beyond saving, I just feel we don’t even register in his world. Makes me feel divided

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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

As for his tweet on systematic sin, somebody responded that there are policy solutions for abortion, ssm, etc. They are easily defined and tackled. What is systematic racism? And what are the policy solutions?

As for cultural emodiedness? What is that?


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## Kinghezy (May 15, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> What was wrong with the tweet he quoted in the first place?



Nothing. I am not following what he is implying in his tweet in the portions I highlighted.


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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> What was wrong with the tweet he quoted in the first place?






So Carl Ellis’ tweet, was ok, pretty accurate and biblical .... and he’s a social justice guy.

But it seems it didn’t go far enough for pastor Mika, who throws in cultural embodiness. He says *accepted* and *affirmed* in our cultural embodiness - this sounds very strange, how about cleansed of our sin? Sounds very heretical to me. How does it sound to you?


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## Taylor (May 15, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> Just to clarify, when I say black supremacy, I’m using a religious context. I would say dispensationalists promote a type of Jewish supremacy.



This is a helpful clarification. Thanks.



A.Joseph said:


> ...being an opc minister does not provide cover, it leaves him open to greater scrutiny.



I agree that being a minister does not exempt one from scrutiny, but that's not what I was saying. I was saying that his being a minister, especially one in the denomination you and I call home, means we need to take the ninth commandment with regard to him _at least_ as seriously as with anyone else.

Furthermore, I am not cautioning against scrutiny, but against false accusation. Those are two very different things.

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## J.L. Allen (May 15, 2019)

Mika says way more inflammatory things on Twitter than this. I think you could’ve proven your point with several other things than this. 

If we are going to stand on the Word of God and defend against false gospels, we need to be sound in our judgments. We can’t jump at things when, though they may be there, the evidence isn’t sufficient. 

Brother, I’m completely with you. I’m especially alarmed since he’s a capable voice coming from within our denomination. However, we need to afford grace where needed and sternness at other times. I hope for repentance. Let’s be robust in our charges lest we needlessly damage our case and harden them in rebellion. 


A.Joseph said:


> View attachment 6090
> 
> So Carl Ellis’ tweet, was ok, pretty accurate and biblical .... and he’s a social justice guy.
> 
> But it seems it didn’t go far enough for pastor Mika, who throws in cultural embodiness. He says *accepted* and *affirmed* in our cultural embodiness - this sounds very strange, how about cleansed of our sin? Sounds very heretical to me. How does it sound to you?

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## A.Joseph (May 15, 2019)

Thanks, I’m dropping out of this discussion. I think I’ve made my point, and I appreciate the responses. I really have nothing more to say, peace!


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## A.Joseph (May 16, 2019)

littlepeople said:


> A.Joseph why did you rate my post as funny?? I wasn't joking; I trying to understand the ground of your serious charge. What is it about the term "cultural embodiedness" that is problematic. If you can't spell out a charge or, then what are you saying? You _feel_ like it's heresy?
> 
> Look I really don't know whatever background you all seem to be aware of with this TE - perhaps the concern is merited, but if it's this is the where the bar is at for serious charges then heaven help us. And again, I'm really not sure why it's funny to you. Is it a form of mocking?


Sorry, that was an accident. Not sure what TE is? 

I’m just gonna call these guys white guilt preachers. I’m very cynical and jaded. Am I living in an alternate universe or is orthodoxy being attacked from every which way? I expect this in outside politics, not from within the ranks.

On intersectionality: https://www.nationalreview.com/2018/03/intersectionality-the-dangerous-faith/
This is where these people are coming from. Everything else is window dressing. This is really what they stand for:
“It’s identity politics on steroids, where virtually every issue in American life can and must be filtered through the prisms of race, gender, sexual orientation, and gender identity.

Intersectionality privileges experiential authority, with each distinct identity group able to speak conclusively and decisively only about their own experience. So when an issue impacts trans rights, the trans community takes the lead. The responsibility of the rest of the community is to act, then, as their “allies.” If a racial issue comes to the fore — for example, in the context of protests over police shootings — then African Americans take the lead, and LGBT or women’s groups come alongside in support.

This is why you’ll often see activist organizations on the left tweet in support of people or causes that have little to do with the mission of the organization. When one part of the movement is threatened, the entire movement is threatened....

For the in group, it’s easy to see the appeal of the philosophy. There’s an animating purpose — fighting injustice, racism, and inequality. There’s the original sin of “privilege.” There’s a conversion experience — becoming “woke.” And much as the Christian church puts a premium on each person’s finding his or her precise role in the body of Christ, intersectionality can provide a person with a specific purpose and role based on individual identity and experience....

The angry activist often stokes the burning fires of intersectionality. And when commitment collides with confusion, commitment tends to win.

Intersectionality steamrolls right over the lukewarm, leaving them converted or cowed. The answer, of course, isn’t to steamroll back — after all, our faith is supposed to be full of grace — but rather to respond with calm conviction. Christianity has survived ancient heresies. It can prevail against modern fads. But don’t for one moment underestimate the depth of the zeal that drives our latest religious divide.”

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## A.Joseph (May 16, 2019)

The fruits of Intersectionality...

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/07/truths-table-gender-race/532407/


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## RamistThomist (May 16, 2019)

littlepeople said:


> What is it about the term "cultural embodiedness" that is problematic.



Nothing in itself. The problem isn't that cultures are real and we are always embodied within a culture. That's true. The problem is when Wokists make hyphenated-Christians within the body of Christ, and then start making demands based on that hyphenation. It's Galatians 101.

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## A.Joseph (May 16, 2019)

Tweet Worthy!


[QUOTE="BayouHuguenot, post: 1200729, member: 448"


> *The problem is when Wokists make hyphenated-Christians within the body of Christ, and then start making demands based on that hyphenation. It's Galatians 101.
> *


[/QUOTE]

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## A.Joseph (May 16, 2019)

Here’s another problem, some would see racism (or ageism) in an event such as this, like the Covington kids scenario. I just see wicked depravity. But if we keep stirring the pot things can surely take a greater turn for the worse. It doesn’t take much to stoke the flames in this fallen world... Just preach the gospel!




This man died

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## ZackF (May 16, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> Here’s another problem, some would see racism (or ageism) in an event such as this, like the Covington kids scenario. I just see wicked depravity. But if we keep stirring the pot things can surely take a greater turn for the worse. It doesn’t take much to stoke the flames in this fallen world... Just preach the gospel!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Terrible!


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## Blueridge Believer (May 16, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> Here’s another problem, some would see racism (or ageism) in an event such as this, like the Covington kids scenario. I just see wicked depravity. But if we keep stirring the pot things can surely take a greater turn for the worse. It doesn’t take much to stoke the flames in this fallen world... Just preach the gospel!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I can’t believe what I just watched. She should get the electric chair.

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## ZackF (May 16, 2019)

Blueridge Believer said:


> I can’t believe what I just watched. She should get the electric chair.


What is thought provoking is what if it were a young white man pushing an old black woman out of the bus?


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## Blueridge Believer (May 16, 2019)

ZackF said:


> What is thought provoking is what if it were a young white man pushing an old black woman out of the bus?


It would have been a 24/7 story for 6 months

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## alexandermsmith (May 17, 2019)

Exactly. And the people on that bus did nothing. Shameful. There are many, _many _such examples that can be found of this sort of thing.

Things are only going to get worse. When out in public never relax.

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## A.Joseph (May 17, 2019)

So this will be the last thing I will say about Pastor Mika. His last tweet is very telling...



I’m wondering if somebody has spoken to him? Unfortunately, this comment affirms where his heart lies. Anti-racism does not mean what we may think it means, and there lies his problem. I’m forced to wonder if people are purposely attending Reformed seminary for legitimacy with the intent of acting as a change agent? Why would you hold these views and be so indoctrinated and yet be drawn to Reformed theology to the extent that you seek a place in the ministry? It boggles my mind... why would you want to be a part of something you will seek to uproot and dismantle? Who goes in with such an objective?

I’m sorry I have to speculate, but unless a fellow pastor would debate him in a public forum it is all we have. I have no more to say of the man unless somebody has anything to add. I will leave it in the capable hands of those in leadership positions

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## ZackF (May 17, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> So this will be the last thing I will say about Pastor Mika. His last tweet is very telling...
> View attachment 6096
> I’m wondering if somebody has spoken to him? Unfortunately, this comment affirms where his heart lies. Anti-racism does not mean what we may think it means, and there lies his problem. I’m forced to wonder if people are purposely attending Reformed seminary for legitimacy with intent of acting as a change agent? Why would you hold these views and be so indoctrinated and yet be drawn to Reformed theology to the extent that you seek a place in the ministry? It boggles my mind... why would you want to be a part of something you will seek to uproot and dismantle? Who goes in with such an objective?
> 
> I’m sorry I have to speculate, but unless a fellow pastor would debate him in a public forum it is all we have. I have no more to say of the man unless somebody has anything to add. I will leave it in the capable hands of those in leadership positions


I would like a definition or example of a Christian being racist let alone ‘boldly racist.’ Who’s received discipline for being ‘antiracist’?

Bradly Mason has publicly vilified godly and well reputed men with utterly no consequences. He’s so provocative as to provide instructions for reaching his denomination with complaints. Joel McDurmon has jumped the sjw shark it seems now retweeting Mason favorably.

The whole thing stirs the same sentiments with me as it does with James White. I find the topics surrounding critical theory, intersectionality, wokism, and SJWs utterly unrewarding and even demoralizing. The only reason I follow these issues are due to their explosive and damaging nature. It’s like running through an expanding demolition zone with swinging wrecking balls. It’s Mario brothers that never ends. No victory is to be had because there is not even a moving target. There is no target at all with only flying things to dodge. Watching otherwise bright men get taken out by this garbage reminds me of NPP/FV 15 years ago except now the winds of culture are blowing this false doctrine into these men’s sails to lead folks unto shipwreck. Lord have mercy on His Church.

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## A.Joseph (May 17, 2019)

ZackF said:


> I would like a definition or example of a Christian being racist let alone ‘boldly racist.’ Who’s received discipline for being ‘antiracist’?


That’s code for systematic racism - the motives are political and cultural. The church is just another means, a voting block...

Maybe he was spoken to????


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## A.Joseph (May 17, 2019)

Oh my, how are these men pastors??? How could he promote such a thing?




https://mobile.twitter.com/ThabitiAnyabwil/status/1083867112102342658

Sorry for the source, but this is alarming. ... why would he keep this name?

“Anyabwile after wrestling with his faith came to reject Islam and embrace Christianity. However, even after having become a professional Christian minister, Anyabwile has kept his Black Nationalist Muslim name.”

https://pulpitandpen.org/2016/02/10...abiti-anyabwile-advocates-for-bernie-sanders/

These agenda driven churches should be independent. Not part of a denomination with a rich Reformed tradition. This is not a black/white thing in the least....
I would love more minorities and Islamic converting to the reformed Christian faith. But I would hope the conversion would include biblical priorities

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## A.Joseph (May 17, 2019)

So my final word is that I’m glad these men seek to make life better for their black brethren. I do believe that it is a reality that certain races and cultures have more adversity, no doubt. But isn’t it better if we simply don’t make it an issue? I’m more cognizant of the fact that it should not be an issue, if anything I go out of my way to make sure it is not. In some ways that is true progress. To understand the sensitivities and be more personally reflective on doing better than our forefathers in this area. But I’m not going to separate from my faith to look good in the eyes of the wokist... I’m no radical in a wordly sense. Jesus is the only true radical! If I’m perceived a radical may it be cause I’m truly with Him!


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## terry43 (May 17, 2019)

ZackF said:


> What is thought provoking is what if it were a young white man pushing an old black woman out of the bus?



It would be on the national news .. all over the press ..racism at its finest .. When we walk into church we should be color blind, age blind culture blind.. there is no place in the body of Christ for any of this

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## terry43 (May 17, 2019)

alexandermsmith said:


> Exactly. And the people on that bus did nothing. Shameful. There are many, _many _such examples that can be found of this sort of thing.
> 
> Things are only going to get worse. When out in public never relax.



We see the depravity of man


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## terry43 (May 17, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> Oh my, how are these men pastors??? How could he promote such a thing?
> 
> View attachment 6097
> https://mobile.twitter.com/ThabitiAnyabwil/status/1083867112102342658
> ...



I worked in the inner-city for 20 years..often the only white face in the building .. I also took some theology classes in the inner-city ...One of the things I learned was they view their church differently than their white brethren.. it was the local church that mostly ran the underground railroad, that sustained blacks after they were freed.. that fed them and housed them and met their social and "physical needs". We still see that to a great extent today where the members trust their pastor to "vet" who they vote for ... I doubt that coming to understand reformed theology will change generation thinking..


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## A.Joseph (May 17, 2019)

terry43 said:


> I worked in the inner-city for 20 years..often the only white face in the building .. I also took some theology classes in the inner-city ...One of the things I learned was they view their church differently than their white brethren.. it was the local church that mostly ran the underground railroad, that sustained blacks after they were freed.. that fed them and housed them and met their social and "physical needs". We still see that to a great extent today where the members trust their pastor to "vet" who they vote for ... I doubt that coming to understand reformed theology will change generation thinking..


This is a great comment! So you believe there’s a learned dependency going on, a dependency on some type of big brother and with civil rights the government to make things right. I’m ok with all of that. I believe intersectionality and critical theory takes things further. But if that’s where they believe it’s at, that’s fine. But the church will naturally resist such a direction. Tragically, the faithless left will be happy to take care of them ... take that how you will. I’d rather we all check what we can at the door and gather as one to worship our Lord & Savior - it’s what truly unites


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## A.Joseph (May 18, 2019)

Culture, ethnicity, and race notwithstanding, I think it’s important to see and treat people as individuals with souls and universal human emotions and needs. Stereotyping used to be a major social/cultural sin, but what critical theory does is almost lock you into some kind of preconceived notion, category, profile or characterization. It is surface level and more cold and detached to put us all in categories. This is going backwards. I refuse to do it and I hope my black brethren can refrain from making blanket statements or guilt accusations/associations toward their white brethren and vice versa. God doesn’t care about any of these things, He wants our devotion and dependency on Him above all else. These things distract us from our higher and ultimate calling. That’s not selfishness, I believe that’s priorities, everything else goes through Jesus and is a byproduct of that union. Our relations must flow through Him, not ourselves


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## Eoghan (May 20, 2019)

I looked into "social marxism" some years ago. As an analogy I think of enzymes in the body which have the power to break down our the very structure of our cells. They are held contained inside a protective membrane until required. Upon our death however they are released and break down the body.

Social marxism or critical theory is a destructive force. Once unleashed it destroys. It is the very antithesis of constructive criticism.


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## A.Joseph (May 24, 2019)

I disavow the title, but after listening to some of the rhetoric from the other side, I feel they are taking a tragic and legitimate issue -especially in former days, although they were different times- that should be considered today case by case with all the evidences available (racism) and sloppily applying the most vital issue (faith in Jesus Christ) and turning it into a political weapon... That’s the impression I get anyway, unfortunately...
It’s all a big distraction.


Anti-Racism — Code for a purposely vague notion of systematic racism. The motives of anybody, even a pastor, who espouses such terminology are political and cultural. To such people, the church is just another means to an end, a mere voting bloc.

Critical Theory — A theoretical framework that identifies instances of oppression (real or perceived) from past, present, and future society and exploits them for political purposes with the ultimate goal of uprooting an imperfect but ultimately sound foundation and replacing it with something out of _1984_. (See Western Marxist philosophy of the Frankfurt School and Agenda 2030).

James H. Cone, the Father of Liberation Theology (Godfather of Woke Theology) — Espoused a perversion of the Gospel in which he insisted that "American white theology is a theology of the Antichrist insofar as it arises from an identification with the white community ... placing God's approval on white oppression of black existence." Cone also defined "blackness" as an "ontological symbol," "a visible reality" of "what oppression means in America."

Intersectionality — Emphasis on areas of disadvantage related to special racial, ethnic, cultural, sex, and class distinctions and the personal experience of the minority class representative.

Social Justice — Righting societal wrongs through political and cultural campaigns, community organization, and various forms of radicalism. Social justice warriors primarily engage in public protests and demonstrations with the purpose of promoting and ultimately securing equality in the areas of civil rights, economics, etc. by offering relief to the disenfranchised via some form of wealth or resource distribution. These efforts are often funded and supported by the very elites who are lamented against.

White Guilt — White folk are evil and inherently wicked for the sins of their forefathers against people of color and continue to perpetuate systematic racism via their continued neglect of aggressive policy to elevate the social standing of the black American. ..... 

Read more: https://www.americanthinker.com/blo...eory_works_to_crush_whitey.html#ixzz5otKnIQux
Follow us: @AmericanThinker on Twitter | AmericanThinker on Facebook

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## A.Joseph (May 24, 2019)

I didn’t know Cone was an admirer of Karl Barth, pretty interesting


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