# (Futurism) Will The Antichrist Be A False Jewish Messiah?



## JM (May 31, 2020)

I went for a long walk today and listened to this debate. Half way through it really struck home how ridicules these futurist schemes really are.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Unique Name (May 31, 2020)

JM said:


> I went for a long walk today and listened to this debate. Half way through it really struck home how ridicules these futurist schemes really are.


I think we need to do damage control on the church. I'm currently scatter-shooting some ideas onto a word doc. and my fiance is drawing up short animations for a youtube video. The problem is that the conservative church has basically woven speculative futurist eschatology into the fabric of western society. How do you undo that? Can we draw out leviathan with a fishhook? I'm looking for friends... lets work on this together. I can create a shared file.


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## NaphtaliPress (May 31, 2020)

Unique Name said:


> I think we need to do damage control on the church. I'm currently scatter-shooting some ideas onto a word doc. and my fiance is drawing up short animations for a youtube video. The problem is that the conservative church has basically woven speculative futurist eschatology into the fabric of western society. How do you undo that? Can we draw out leviathan with a fishhook? I'm looking for friends... lets work on this together. I can create a shared file.


Unique, you need a first name or nickname in your signature unless your name is "puritan" so folks know how to address you.


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## RamistThomist (Jun 1, 2020)

Not all futurisms are the same. I lean futurist amil at this point (amil but with a future tribulation and personal antichrist). The early church, or some in it, though the antichrist would be a Jew.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JM (Jun 1, 2020)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Not all futurisms are the same. I lean futurist amil at this point (amil but with a future tribulation and personal antichrist). The early church, or some in it, though the antichrist would be a Jew.


Yeah, these two are arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and being snarky about it. PreWrath is the only futurist view that make sense to me but I have a lot of trouble viewing the millennium as a literal 1,000 years. 

I'm all ears if you'd like to explain in detail what you believe. 

Yours in the Lord, 

jm


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## RamistThomist (Jun 1, 2020)

JM said:


> Yeah, these two are arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and being snarky about it. PreWrath is the only futurist view that make sense to me but I have a lot of trouble viewing the millennium as a literal 1,000 years.
> 
> I'm all ears if you'd like to explain in detail what you believe.
> 
> ...



Exegetically, pre-wrath is the only view that makes sense of Matthew 24 and the timing of the tribulation. That said, I don't see how one is logically committed to a millennium by holding that Christians won't be here for the full time of Antichrist.


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## JM (Jun 1, 2020)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Exegetically, pre-wrath is the only view that makes sense of Matthew 24 and the timing of the tribulation. That said, I don't see how one is logically committed to a millennium by holding that Christians won't be here for the full time of Antichrist.


Both participants in the debate are PreWrath.


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## Unique Name (Jun 1, 2020)

JM said:


> Yeah, these two are arguing over how many angels can dance on the head of a pin and being snarky about it. PreWrath is the only futurist view that make sense to me but I have a lot of trouble viewing the millennium as a literal 1,000 years.
> 
> I'm all ears if you'd like to explain in detail what you believe.
> 
> ...





JM said:


> Both participants in the debate are PreWrath.


I keep seing "prewrath" in the chats. Is that anything like the pre-trib rapture doctrine?


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## RamistThomist (Jun 1, 2020)

Unique Name said:


> I keep seing "prewrath" in the chats. Is that anything like the pre-trib rapture doctrine?



No. It has antecedents in the Didache and some early fathers but was never widespread. Pre-trib says the church must be raptured before Antichrist, because pre-trib identifies the entirety of the seven year period as "God's Wrath." Pre-wrath agrees that we as saints do not experience God's wrath (1 Thess. 5:9), but pre-wrath doesn't identify the entire tribulation as God's wrath. God pours out his wrath sometime after Antichrist commits the abomination of desolation.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## JM (Jun 4, 2020)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Not all futurisms are the same. I lean futurist amil at this point (amil but with a future tribulation and personal antichrist). The early church, or some in it, though the antichrist would be a Jew.


Can you explain the amil futurist idea?


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## RamistThomist (Jun 4, 2020)

JM said:


> Can you explain the amil futurist idea?



Future personal antichrist.

Reactions: Like 1


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## JM (Jun 4, 2020)

I was probably overly harsh in calling premil ridiculous, more like the debate was, apologies if I offended any premil'ers on the forum.


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