# Conviction vs. Providence



## Herald (Nov 4, 2013)

In a current Paedo-Answers Only thread Josh Hicks wrote this:



> There should be room for sound Gospel-believing folk who do not have other feasible options geographically, etc. But those folks should submit to the discipline and government of their respective churches . . . or uproot and go to where a place that shares their convictions is.



Josh, what does submitting to discipline mean? If providence placed me in a Presbyterian church would submitting to discipline simply be willing to meet with the elders and consider their argument whether or not I change my position? And if I do not change my position, and providence precludes me from uprooting, could I remain a member so long as I am not undermining the church by advocating my credobaptist position?

I am not seeking a scrap here. Just a genuine question.


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## MW (Nov 4, 2013)

Herald said:


> by advocating my credobaptist position?



The first thing the leaders would (or should) demonstrate is that they are credo-baptists in the proper sense of that term. All are baptised on the understanding that faith is necessary in order to be a partaker of the saving benefits which are signified by baptism. What an antipaedobaptist advocates under that term, and how he advances it, will be the determining factor as to whether he might remain in good standing with the church or must fall under discipline. A person should join a church for the purpose of fully attending on the means of grace and participating in the communion of saints. In seeking out this purpose there is no claim to leadership, teaching, or oversight. There is an acceptance that the church is properly constituted, the word faithfully taught, and the sacraments purely administered. If there is a fundamental objection to the validity and authority of the church, an individual is acting contrary to his own conscience in joining it. His engagement to sit under the ministry and participate in the fellowship of the church is double-minded, and a double-minded man cannot think to receive anything from the Lord.


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## Herald (Nov 4, 2013)

Matthew and Josh,

Happily, most Baptists would not have a problem finding a Baptist church to join and vice versa from most Presbyterians. However there are always those rare occasions when providence does preclude such a choice. I think of Rich's time in Okinawa when he was a member of a Baptist church. For a Baptist who holds to Reformed soteriology the available choices can prove difficult. Where I live there is not a myriad of choices when it comes to Baptist churches that fall into that camp. I know of quite a few Calvinistic Baptists who attend OPC or PCA churches precisely because they could not find a suitable Baptist church. Some of these individuals are not official members because of the baptism divide. I guess that is one way around potential church discipline --attend but not join. That is not ideal by any means and I am not advocating it. But for those who find themselves in a situation where there are no sound Baptist churches, what are their options?


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