# How many times in the NT: election, predestination (choose us, called us...etc.) ?



## Mayflower (Mar 23, 2008)

Does anyone knows, how many times we read in the NT, about the doctrine of election and/or predestination (including : choose us, called us...etc.) ?


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 23, 2008)

Off the top of my head, no, but 2 Tim. 1:8-10 is one of my favorite passages.


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## mvdm (Mar 23, 2008)

A quick ESV software search on the word "chosen" shows at least 13 NT verses; 5 verses with "predestined"; 19 with "elect" or "election".


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 23, 2008)

mvdm said:


> A quick ESV software search on the word "chosen" shows at least 13 NT verses; 5 verses with "predestined"; 19 with "elect" or "election".



Mark,

While you have that program open can you check for me how many times the Scriptures talk about God not wanting us to be "robots" or that He gave us "free will" so that our love for Him would be genuine?

I obviously want to be fair to the contrary position.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Mar 23, 2008)

SemperFideles said:


> mvdm said:
> 
> 
> > A quick ESV software search on the word "chosen" shows at least 13 NT verses; 5 verses with "predestined"; 19 with "elect" or "election".
> ...



Semper:

I don't have that program open, but I can tell you that the answer is ZERO on both counts!


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## DMcFadden (Mar 23, 2008)

SemperFideles said:


> mvdm said:
> 
> 
> > A quick ESV software search on the word "chosen" shows at least 13 NT verses; 5 verses with "predestined"; 19 with "elect" or "election".
> ...


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## Barnpreacher (Mar 23, 2008)

SemperFideles said:


> mvdm said:
> 
> 
> > A quick ESV software search on the word \"chosen\" shows at least 13 NT verses; 5 verses with \"predestined\"; 19 with \"elect\" or \"election\".
> ...



Really, what does it matter what the Bible says about free will? This song gives us the answer we need. (I know...I know...I've posted this song before. I'm sorry, I just love it.  And for those of you who've seen it a gazillion times, you know you're going to watch it one more time!)

[video=youtube;IrczyFvkv8Q]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrczyFvkv8Q[/video]


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Mar 23, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> SemperFideles said:
> 
> 
> > mvdm said:
> ...




Nope! Not me. No way! I will not watch it this time. Too late in the evening to dance to Arminian Jazz Music!


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 23, 2008)

Slightly back on topic (I love the off-topicness of PB sometimes.....  ):

Ralph - read the intro to most of the epistles. Paul mentions election in the first chapters of most of his epistles. Here's the cool thing - He mentions it _in passing_ most of the time - sort of like 'you should know this already'.......

Example:

2 Tim. 1:8-12
Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony about our Lord, nor of me his prisoner, but share in suffering for the gospel by the power of God, 9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began, 10 and which now has been manifested through the appearing of our Savior Christ Jesus, who abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel, 11 for which I was appointed a preacher and apostle and teacher, 12 which is why I suffer as I do. But I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed, and I am convinced that he is able to guard until that Day what has been entrusted to me. 

It's mentioned often as part of one continuous pattern of thought alongside other things pertaining to salvation _without defense_. It's simply assumed as right.....


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 23, 2008)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Slightly back on topic (I love the off-topicness of PB sometimes.....  ):



Thanks for getting them back on track. Some of these guys think everything is a joke around here. I'm really going to have to start cracking down. Obviously, if Arminians didn't have strong Biblical evidence for libertine free will being the only alternative to men being robots then they wouldn't keep saying it.


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 24, 2008)

On the good side of things, Rich, I've had a bit of heavy time in my absence from PB over at the HCR.fm (Holy Culture Radio) forum. A good thing has happened there over the past few years - as more and more believers in the doctrines of grace have made themselves known on the board, we've had more interaction with folks who had no idea what a Calvinist was (let alone that there were any other kind of Christians than what they grew up in).....

We've seen a bunch of folks 'move over' to a more biblical view of election, predestination and such..... some are in process now.... some fight hard against it.

Hey LUPE...how you interpret these? - Holy Culture Radio Community Forum
T.u.l.i.p. - Holy Culture Radio Community Forum

Pray for this dude (YungLion).
Lim. Atonement..Predes....Election.... - Holy Culture Radio Community Forum

Teenager, but apparently discussions on the board have piqued his interest.

As you can see over on this thread, me and the other Calvinistic and Reformed folk on the board have opposition:
Hate the sin ... - Holy Culture Radio Community Forum

(I'm G.R.A.C.E. Preecha over there...just look for my same avatar - I'm also an admin over there).

Threads like this one have also popped up:
Holy Culture Radio Community Forum - View Single Post - How can I learn Exegesis??? (my response is to someone asking how to learn to exegete the text of scripture)

To most of the PBers over here: I challenge you to move out of simply being around 'reformed folks' (especially on the internet) and to head out and grow in wisdom in dealing with non-Calvinists (and in some cases, non-saved folks). God didn't give us all this good knowledge to sit idly and simply enjoy the fellowship of those who think like us.....


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## ChristopherPaul (Mar 24, 2008)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Pray for this dude (YungLion).
> Lim. Atonement..Predes....Election.... - Holy Culture Radio Community Forum



This quote came to mind when reading YungLion's OP:

"If we are to be biblical . . . the issue is not whether we should have a doctrine of predestination or not, but what kind we should embrace."
R. C. Sproul


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## ChristopherPaul (Mar 24, 2008)

BlackCalvinist said:


> Ralph - read the intro to most of the epistles. Paul mentions election in the first chapters of most of his epistles. Here's the cool thing - He mentions it _in passing_ most of the time - sort of like 'you should know this already'.......



Good point! I never realized this before.


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## Zenas (Mar 24, 2008)

BlackCalvinist said:


> To most of the PBers over here: I challenge you to move out of simply being around 'reformed folks' (especially on the internet) and to head out and grow in wisdom in dealing with non-Calvinists (and in some cases, non-saved folks). God didn't give us all this good knowledge to sit idly and simply enjoy the fellowship of those who think like us.....



They don't like me. 

I'll move over and check it out. With Moot Court over I have some spare time to sit around and chat about doctrine. 

One reason I came here though is so that I could have a place where I can go and be relatively free of debate and slander. I circulated around a lot of Calvinist and Reformed boards on Facebook, debated atheists, Arminians, and everything in between, and eventually got fed up because a few kids who actually claimed to be Reformed Christians began continually slandering me for having "too strict" of a view of Total Depravity. I came here to avoid all of that. I may be ready to venture back into the outside world of the intranet though. 

Edit: I'm a white guy, am I allowed to post there?  Feel free to point me to the spot where I can help to shed some light on the situation.


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## Christusregnat (Mar 24, 2008)

Mayflower said:


> Does anyone knows, how many times we read in the NT, about the doctrine of election and/or predestination (including : choose us, called us...etc.) ?



Ralph,

I would use one of the Standard Greek concordances (*in greek*), and look up the pertinent words.

Unhelpfully yours,

Adam


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## BertMulder (Mar 24, 2008)

Rich, you mean

Work your own salvation with fear and trembling?


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## BlackCalvinist (Mar 25, 2008)

Zenas said:


> BlackCalvinist said:
> 
> 
> > To most of the PBers over here: I challenge you to move out of simply being around 'reformed folks' (especially on the internet) and to head out and grow in wisdom in dealing with non-Calvinists (and in some cases, non-saved folks). God didn't give us all this good knowledge to sit idly and simply enjoy the fellowship of those who think like us.....
> ...



There are plenty of white folk over there. 

Sometimes it's good to be in a place free from debate. Other times, it's good to be in adversity so your mettle can be tested.  

Let me go welcome you (I notice you posted - THANKS for coming over).


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