# Park Evangelism



## Pergamum

Street Evangelist Saves 300 Souls From Enjoying Park | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Does anybody's church engage in this vibrant and needy ministry?


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## Tim

Pergy, what specifically do you want to discuss?

I know of more than one church that engages in open air preaching.


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## Pergamum

There's a numberof things that can be discussed from this satirical article from the Onion:

-(1) the perception of the world and whether it has merit,
-(2) The effectiveness of some forms of evangelism that may have worked in the past but, though the church still engages in it somewhat, has decreased in it appropriateness in our present culture,
-(3) What IS the best and most fitting way to evangelize our nation at the present time,
-(4) Should we approach people in public places and how this should be done, and what we should do if we sense that we are bothering them or if they do not appeciate wha we are offering.


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## christianyouth

Hey Pergamum. 

I have my own personal rule, I greet someone in a friendly way, make small talk, and then if I'm feeling confident and they are friendly and look like they want to talk, I'll ask them if I could show them a tract. Most everyone says yes just to be polite, so I hand them that tract and then I tell them if they want to talk about Christianity we can.


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## Pergamum

Sounds good, but I know that the unchurched and nonbelievers feel quite "used" when someone is friendly to them, it appears, as a means to "close the deal" and offer them a tract or a Gospel presentation. 

I think if we do not be very careful in our approach we only help to harden the culture even more to such friendly chat with strangers because people will put up walls to any stranger that approaches because they are bound to be asking for something, selling something, or some religious "whack-job" in their estimation.

For what purpose would we otherwise EVER approach a stranger in a park?

There has got to be a more natural way to evangelize.


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## christianyouth

Hmmm.... that's a good point. I guess some unbelievers feel that way, but others don't. I think the key is to be genuinely interested in that person and what they have to say. I don't think that people can fake genuine interest and concern, I know I can't. Because I've approached people for the purpose of evangelizing, but I've only had three bad responses(and yes I really think I did come off as a religious whack job lol).

If people are just courteous and not salesman-like, I don't know if there will be a big problem. I think the big problem is when people think you are a salesman and you go out there motivated by any other motivation besides love for the person. 

Pergamum, I also think that the skepticism towards strangers and salesman just doesn't exist as much in lower income areas like Detroit. People generally are not as busy. There are guys going around all the time selling boot-legged electronics, boot-legged jewelry, all kinds of stuff. And you can always see a lot of people talking to these people, even if it it's just making fun of them. So I think the cultural difference, more of their openness, could have some reason for why I never get the 'you're a whack job' response from people.


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## Pergamum

Thanks for the input.

What are some other ways of evangelizing one's neighborhood? My home church has asked me for input, and I just don't know what to do in a suburb of a major city (saint louis).... knocking on doors seems fairly ineffective. 

Should we concentrate on web presence, newspaper presence, radio presence? If you wanted to help a small church in a city suburb to grow, what sort of means woudl you use?


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## Joseph Scibbe

I go to the mall every Friday night and allways start off my conversation with "Hi (sir or mam) do you mind if I have a few minutes of your time". My Bible is clearly present so as to not look like I am trying to pull one over on them. I have gotten pretty good at reading the way people act and that determines how I pick my "targets" ( for lack of a better word). Oh, and I NEVER talk to a female without one with me, it becomes too awkward and inappropirate In my humble opinion.


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## Pergamum

Unashamed 116 said:


> I go to the mall every Friday night and allways start off my conversation with "Hi (sir or mam) do you mind if I have a few minutes of your time". My Bible is clearly present so as to not look like I am trying to pull one over on them. I have gotten pretty good at reading the way people act and that determines how I pick my "targets" ( for lack of a better word). Oh, and I NEVER talk to a female without one with me, it becomes too awkward and inappropirate In my humble opinion.



Do you find that this adds any growth to your church? Have you been able to follow up long term with any of the folks you have engaged?


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## Joseph Scibbe

Pergamum said:


> Unashamed 116 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I go to the mall every Friday night and allways start off my conversation with "Hi (sir or mam) do you mind if I have a few minutes of your time". My Bible is clearly present so as to not look like I am trying to pull one over on them. I have gotten pretty good at reading the way people act and that determines how I pick my "targets" ( for lack of a better word). Oh, and I NEVER talk to a female without one with me, it becomes too awkward and inappropirate In my humble opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you find that this adds any growth to your church? Have you been able to follow up long term with any of the folks you have engaged?
Click to expand...



Well, the problem with being in the south is that everyone is already going to a church and have been for years, even if they could not tell you the name to save ther lives. I have refered people to a few churches in the area but mine is pretty exclusive (military base Chapel). I have plenty of people tell me they are already saved even if the just got done cussing up a storm. I even had one girl tell me she got daved 3 times! It is hard to do evangelism here in Alabama but not useless. I know that when the word is preached , it accomplishes what is was sent to do.


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## Pergamum

Unashamed 116 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Unashamed 116 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I go to the mall every Friday night and allways start off my conversation with "Hi (sir or mam) do you mind if I have a few minutes of your time". My Bible is clearly present so as to not look like I am trying to pull one over on them. I have gotten pretty good at reading the way people act and that determines how I pick my "targets" ( for lack of a better word). Oh, and I NEVER talk to a female without one with me, it becomes too awkward and inappropirate In my humble opinion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Do you find that this adds any growth to your church? Have you been able to follow up long term with any of the folks you have engaged?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the problem with being in the south is that everyone is already going to a church and have been for years, even if they could not tell you the name to save ther lives. I have refered people to a few churches in the area but mine is pretty exclusive (military base Chapel). I have plenty of people tell me they are already saved even if the just got done cussing up a storm. I even had one girl tell me she got daved 3 times! It is hard to do evangelism here in Alabama but not useless. I know that when the word is preached , it accomplishes what is was sent to do.
Click to expand...


What would you suggest as a means of evangelism with a view of adding to my local church here in a urban suburb of Saint Louis?

Canvassing the city and knocking on doors has added no one.


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## christianyouth

I really don't know, Pergamum, I know that in the SEO business there is a cliche that people pass around : Content is the most important marketing strategy. Everyone is always wondering how they can get their small, undeveloped website to show up on at the top of google, and they always want some quick marketing secret that will get their website to the top, instead of building a content rich, useful website. You can have *the* best marketing strategy, but if you have an undesirable product, it's not going to get you anywhere.

So what a 'desirable product' is in the case of a church is different to a lot of people. A lot of people think the main thing is expository preaching, to others it is music style. To others it's about having a large young population of singles(seriously lol). Personally, I think that a loving, authentic community is more important than all of these. Just a couple of portions in scripture that show the importance of community for the Church :

_ 1- Jesus saying that the unbelievers will recognize His disciples by their love and unity.
2 - Paul's prediction of what would happen when unbelievers enter into a church that is functioning as a body._


Also someone needs to really look at Seth Godin and see how his marketing theories apply to Christianity. I know that he is turning the marketing world upside down and from the little I heard from him he sounds like his non-manipulative, selective marketing would be compatible with a Christian church growth marketing strategy.

_Non manipulative - People following Jesus and Jesus not pressuring them to becoming his disciples but instead basically DISCOURAGING them from making a quick decision by saying things like, "Who builds a tower without first calculating the cost of the materials?" and, "Who goes to war without first seeing if he has enough troops to defeat the enemy?"

Selective - "I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.", John 10 and stressing the fact that the self righteous, self seeking Jews were not his target ministry by saying that they were not his 'sheep'. Etc. 

_There are a lot more examples of Jesus' using non-manipulative and selective evangelizing techniques.
(Selective in the sense of communicating that His product(ie forgiveness of sins and access to God) was for a very narrow audience(the meek, his sheep, the elect, etc)



-----Added 5/29/2009 at 03:13:59 EST-----

Ok, I just realized I left something out. Seth Godin's 'tribe' theory is really important. He believes that if a product is truly amazing, it will develop a 'tribe', that is a small group of followers who use the product and then become enthusiastic supporters of the product and then do the marketing for you

A good example of this would be the popularity of Vibram Five Finger shoes. Tim Ferris learned about them from a friend of his who was wearing them and who explained to Tim Ferris the benefit of the shoes. Then Tim Ferris began wearing them, and became part of the Vibram tribe. So one tribe member who was enthusiastic about the product, created another tribe member, and this tribe member created thousands of tribe members due to featuring an article about these shoes on his blog.

Another example is this guy "The Internet Monk". I've never read his blog. I have enough blogs to read. But I have already have encountered four of his "tribesman". Guess what that does for me? It means that if I want to read some good Christian blog writing, I'm going to check out this blog. And if this blogger is offering great content, he might just win me into his tribe.



I think that you(Pergamum) had explained somewhere that most people who come to Christ come to Christ in a similar way, through having someone they are close with spread the message to them. If this is true, I would say that the best church growth strategy is producing Christians who are in love with Jesus and His ministry on their behalf, because I think if they are, telling others will be a natural reflex for them.


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## Pergamum

christianyouth said:


> I really don't know, Pergamum, I know that in the SEO business there is a cliche that people pass around : Content is the most important marketing strategy. Everyone is always wondering how they can get their small, undeveloped website to show up on at the top of google, and they always want some quick marketing secret that will get their website to the top, instead of building a content rich, useful website. You can have *the* best marketing strategy, but if you have an undesirable product, it's not going to get you anywhere.
> 
> So what a 'desirable product' is in the case of a church is different to a lot of people. A lot of people think the main thing is expository preaching, to others it is music style. To others it's about having a large young population of singles(seriously lol). Personally, I think that a loving, authentic community is more important than all of these. Just a couple of portions in scripture that show the importance of community for the Church :
> 
> _ 1- Jesus saying that the unbelievers will recognize His disciples by their love and unity.
> 2 - Paul's prediction of what would happen when unbelievers enter into a church that is functioning as a body._
> 
> 
> Also someone needs to really look at Seth Godin and see how his marketing theories apply to Christianity. I know that he is turning the marketing world upside down and from the little I heard from him he sounds like his non-manipulative, selective marketing would be compatible with a Christian church growth marketing strategy.
> 
> _Non manipulative - People following Jesus and Jesus not pressuring them to becoming his disciples but instead basically DISCOURAGING them from making a quick decision by saying things like, "Who builds a tower without first calculating the cost of the materials?" and, "Who goes to war without first seeing if he has enough troops to defeat the enemy?"
> 
> Selective - "I did not come to call the righteous but sinners to repentance.", John 10 and stressing the fact that the self righteous, self seeking Jews were not his target ministry by saying that they were not his 'sheep'. Etc.
> 
> _There are a lot more examples of Jesus' using non-manipulative and selective evangelizing techniques.
> (Selective in the sense of communicating that His product(ie forgiveness of sins and access to God) was for a very narrow audience(the meek, his sheep, the elect, etc)
> 
> 
> 
> -----Added 5/29/2009 at 03:13:59 EST-----
> 
> Ok, I just realized I left something out. Seth Godin's 'tribe' theory is really important. He believes that if a product is truly amazing, it will develop a 'tribe', that is a small group of followers who use the product and then become enthusiastic supporters of the product and then do the marketing for you
> 
> A good example of this would be the popularity of Vibram Five Finger shoes. Tim Ferris learned about them from a friend of his who was wearing them and who explained to Tim Ferris the benefit of the shoes. Then Tim Ferris began wearing them, and became part of the Vibram tribe. So one tribe member who was enthusiastic about the product, created another tribe member, and this tribe member created thousands of tribe members due to featuring an article about these shoes on his blog.
> 
> Another example is this guy "The Internet Monk". I've never read his blog. I have enough blogs to read. But I have already have encountered four of his "tribesman". Guess what that does for me? It means that if I want to read some good Christian blog writing, I'm going to check out this blog. And if this blogger is offering great content, he might just win me into his tribe.
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you(Pergamum) had explained somewhere that most people who come to Christ come to Christ in a similar way, through having someone they are close with spread the message to them. If this is true, I would say that the best church growth strategy is producing Christians who are in love with Jesus and His ministry on their behalf, because I think if they are, telling others will be a natural reflex for them.



Thanks, a lot to chew on. non-manipulative and selective and deliberate witness among the providential web of contacts and relationships that one already possesses does seem to be a way in which the Gospel spreads.


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## christianyouth

Hey Pergamum, I listened to another talk from Seth Godin yesterday. I came to the conclusion, that what was going on in the Onion article is EXACTLY what Seth Godin is describing as ineffective in our society, what he calls "interruption marketing". As the name basically says, it's marketing that interrupts and annoys people. It's like TV commercials, they are the classic example of interruption marketing. No one likes them, and for MOST people(Seth Godin is arguing) interruption marketing like TV ads no longer convinces people to buy the product.

I don't understand why he thinks interruption marketing is ineffective yet. But I thought it was interesting seeing what was going on in that article in terms of how a marketer would see it.


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## Pergamum

This Seth Godin guy sounds interesting, can you send me some links so I can listen?


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## Wannabee

christianyouth said:


> I think *the key is to be genuinely interested in that person and what they have to say.* I don't think that people can fake genuine interest and concern, I know I can't. ...I think the big problem is when people think you are a salesman and you go out there motivated by any other motivation besides *love for the person*.



Well said Andrew. I was talking to a guy yesterday, turned out to be Baha'i, who said that he'd never talked to a Christian who didn't get angry. I've heard this before. He even used the word "fundamentalist." But as we talked he warmed up and seriously considered the challenges I gave him. At the end I gave him a tract with our church info on it and my cell number. They live just down the street, so perhaps more will follow. Please pray for Dave and Anastasia.

All this took place at a small town parade. He and his wife had their dogs and I came up and talked to them. I love dogs, so it's easy. And we have a Great Dane, which they had as well. It was a genuine interest, and they knew it was. Of course, when you're a pastor it's easy because inevitably someone asks what you do for a living. But sometimes a little gentle prying is necessary for spiritual interchange. And, if nothing else, simply asking if they would like a tract and letting them know they can contact you if they have any questions leaves an open door. Another great way to show you care is to ask them how you can pray for them, then perhaps pray for them right on the spot.

Open air preaching depends upon culture and context too. For instance, it seems like the only time there is a group around here gathered it is for something specific. Open air preaching might be obnoxious in such circumstances. But we've found that people like to talk when we go walking around town. They especially like to see our dog, which is a great tool for breaking the ice. Part of our problem is that we often have an agenda, and miss opportunities because of our own selfishness. This is something we're striving to overcome.

One thing we're planning this summer as a church is to make sure our neighbors know who we are. We don't want them to just know our names, but that we are Christians and available to help them if they have questions, want to talk or if there is any other way we can minister to them. I have no idea of how successful this will be. But the goal is to do it for each member of the church so that we can be more effective in our local community. Maybe we'll take them a small gift, along with a tract, a recent bulletin and a CD. We're still working on it.

There's another aspect of this that needs to be addressed by the local church though, and that's a propensity to become Arminian in our evangelism. God calls us to be faithful. He does not call us to save souls. We can't do it. We can proclaim Christ faithfully, lovingly and in the best possible way and still only see hardened hearts. If we measure our success on the faithfulness of others to believe then we are Arminian at heart. Our faithfulness is to the two great commandments, with a focus on our relationship with God first. If we focus on the increase, which is God's realm, then we will begin to think that we have to change our methods in order to be faithful. This is something I've been attempting to stress to our church. It's better to lovingly and simply tell someone about Christ because you care about their eternal soul than it is to just have a good time with them. But, if it's not tempered by love then the Gospel is presented out of context. It may be effective in spite of us anyway. But it would not be faithful evangelism.


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## Pergamum

Wannabee said:


> christianyouth said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think *the key is to be genuinely interested in that person and what they have to say.* I don't think that people can fake genuine interest and concern, I know I can't. ...I think the big problem is when people think you are a salesman and you go out there motivated by any other motivation besides *love for the person*.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Well said Andrew. I was talking to a guy yesterday, turned out to be Baha'i, who said that he'd never talked to a Christian who didn't get angry. I've heard this before. He even used the word "fundamentalist." But as we talked he warmed up and seriously considered the challenges I gave him. At the end I gave him a tract with our church info on it and my cell number. They live just down the street, so perhaps more will follow. Please pray for Dave and Anastasia.
> 
> All this took place at a small town parade. He and his wife had their dogs and I came up and talked to them. I love dogs, so it's easy. And we have a Great Dane, which they had as well. It was a genuine interest, and they knew it was. Of course, when you're a pastor it's easy because inevitably someone asks what you do for a living. But sometimes a little gentle prying is necessary for spiritual interchange. And, if nothing else, simply asking if they would like a tract and letting them know they can contact you if they have any questions leaves an open door. Another great way to show you care is to ask them how you can pray for them, then perhaps pray for them right on the spot.
> 
> Open air preaching depends upon culture and context too. For instance, it seems like the only time there is a group around here gathered it is for something specific. Open air preaching might be obnoxious in such circumstances. But we've found that people like to talk when we go walking around town. They especially like to see our dog, which is a great tool for breaking the ice. Part of our problem is that we often have an agenda, and miss opportunities because of our own selfishness. This is something we're striving to overcome.
> 
> One thing we're planning this summer as a church is to make sure our neighbors know who we are. We don't want them to just know our names, but that we are Christians and available to help them if they have questions, want to talk or if there is any other way we can minister to them. I have no idea of how successful this will be. But the goal is to do it for each member of the church so that we can be more effective in our local community. Maybe we'll take them a small gift, along with a tract, a recent bulletin and a CD. We're still working on it.
> 
> There's another aspect of this that needs to be addressed by the local church though, and that's a propensity to become Arminian in our evangelism. God calls us to be faithful. He does not call us to save souls. We can't do it. We can proclaim Christ faithfully, lovingly and in the best possible way and still only see hardened hearts. If we measure our success on the faithfulness of others to believe then we are Arminian at heart. Our faithfulness is to the two great commandments, with a focus on our relationship with God first. If we focus on the increase, which is God's realm, then we will begin to think that we have to change our methods in order to be faithful. This is something I've been attempting to stress to our church. It's better to lovingly and simply tell someone about Christ because you care about their eternal soul than it is to just have a good time with them. But, if it's not tempered by love then the Gospel is presented out of context. It may be effective in spite of us anyway. But it would not be faithful evangelism.
Click to expand...


Joe, it's time to write the next best-selling book, promoting the newest evangelistic technique..... 

"DOG EVANGELISM!" 



......at your local Christian bookstores now.


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## CredoFidoSpero

Wannabee said:


> At the end I gave him a tract with our church info on it and my cell number. They live just down the street, so perhaps more will follow. Please pray for Dave and Anastasia.



What tracts do you use? Does your church produce your own?






christianyouth said:


> A good example of this would be the popularity of Vibram Five Finger shoes. Tim Ferris learned about them from a friend of his who was wearing them and who explained to Tim Ferris the benefit of the shoes. Then Tim Ferris began wearing them, and became part of the Vibram tribe. So one tribe member who was enthusiastic about the product, created another tribe member, and this tribe member created thousands of tribe members due to featuring an article about these shoes on his blog.



Sorry, , but I just got my Vibram Five Finger shoes yesterday, and I LOVE them!   
They're a bit odd looking though, might be good for opening up a few stranger conversations.


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## Wannabee

CredoFidoSpero said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> At the end I gave him a tract with our church info on it and my cell number. They live just down the street, so perhaps more will follow. Please pray for Dave and Anastasia.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What tracts do you use? Does your church produce your own?
Click to expand...


We just started writing some. Our first one is a bit didactic because I tried to get too much information in one tract. But it's a start. We do a simple 4.25 inch tall tri-fold with the last page having lines for comments, phone numbers, etc and our church name, address, phone number and service times.

We also get tracts from Mount Zion. They're good, if a bit archaic. I don't know how well that works with some these days, but the info is good. I may try to rewrite some of them in more contemporary English for our use. But we have some ideas for other tracts as well. Mostly we want to make it personal and give them a local contact. We could label the ones we receive from Mt. Zion, but it's time consuming and less personal.

We close with this simple invitation.

Please join us for worship
Some other ways we may be able to serve you:
•	Answer your questions.
•	Provide more reading material.
•	Meet with you personally.
•	Regular Bible study.​


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## Kevin

Perg, we "do" park outreach for several weeks in the sommer.

We go to the largest city park & set up BBQ's and start playing music (live).

We have an informal 15-20 min bible study, pray & we eat, with whoever is there.

Drawbacks are, some speakers "preach" i.e. a 35+ min sermon that sounds like a sunday morning. Some peaople are unsure how welcome they are to sit in, so they hang back.

We are planning now for a 5 or 6 week session this summer. Our idea is to spend 15-20 min inviting people to join us, before we start. To try a kid friiendly programme (puppets?) that will allow the adults to stand by while the kids watch the "show". Those of us adults in the group will stand at the outskirts of the crowd & meet the parents & invite them to join us for a cook out & ice cream at the end of the show.

Bull horn man as linked above is not at all what would work in our society. (in my opinion)


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## Pergamum

Kevin: Has your church experienced any long term church growth or opportunity for long-term discipleship from these ventures? Or new growth?

I am trying to figure out how to reach an American urban suburb (is urban suburb an oxymoron...?). I am trying to figure out how best that a local church on the outskirts of downtown Saint Louis can increase its impact.


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## Wannabee

If I may, I would like to reiterate something I said earlier. If our focus is on church growth then haven't we failed before we begin? Only God can provide increase. Even the most appropriate method will fall flat if God is not changing hearts. Some of this talk seems to focus on external fruit rather than the internal fruit that comes from pursuing righteousness and faithfulness.


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## OPC'n

Unashamed 116 said:


> I go to the mall every Friday night and allways start off my conversation with "Hi (sir or mam) do you mind if I have a few minutes of your time". My Bible is clearly present so as to not look like I am trying to pull one over on them. I have gotten pretty good at reading the way people act and that determines how I pick my "targets" ( for lack of a better word). Oh, and I NEVER talk to a female without one with me, it becomes too awkward and inappropirate In my humble opinion.



Blessings to you on the work you do for Christ!


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## Pergamum

Wannabee said:


> If I may, I would like to reiterate something I said earlier. If our focus is on church growth then haven't we failed before we begin? Only God can provide increase. Even the most appropriate method will fall flat if God is not changing hearts. Some of this talk seems to focus on external fruit rather than the internal fruit that comes from pursuing righteousness and faithfulness.



That's a frequent calvinist false dichotomy. One wants to add numbers and it becomes hip to remind that one that only God can change hearts. One wants to add quantity and one gets reminded to worry about quality.

Well, only God can add quality too. Whether it is the addition of souls to a church or whether one aims at adding "the internal fruit that comes from pursuing rightousness and faithfulness.." both ar equally dependant upon God's grace, so why not try to add numbers as well as add holiness to the saints already present? 

Acting vigorously and being energetic does not mean that we have forgotten who grants the results.


We should not make an idol out of means; but neither should we be idle in the use of means either.


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## Wannabee

Pergamum said:


> That's a frequent calvinist false dichotomy.



Actually, it's not. My post was in the context of my earlier post. Such a false dichotomy exists, but, in context, that's clearly not what I was representing. The point is, we can't measure the success of our evangelism on how much we grow in numbers any more than we can measure the success of our teaching on the depth of our people. That's an Arminian mindset and key to seeker friendly ministries. It is an indicator only. But people may get saved in spite of us just as people may grow in spite of us. The focus must be faithfulness first. Do we love God? Do we love people? Are we pursuing that love according to Scripture? Then we are evangelizing and pursuing mutual edification for the glory of God, recognizing that any true fruit is because of God's work as we water and plant seed. If we don't believe this then Jeremiah was a failure as a minister of God.

Having said that, as my earlier post attests, I'm all for attempting different methods of pursuing the faithful proclamation of the Gospel, even to the point of using my K9 . What works in the south may not work here, and what works in the city won't work in the small town our country. We must strive to adapt to the culture and demographic of the area, while never compromising on the Gospel by attempting to sell it or package it in any way that points to our reliance upon ourselves or our ingenuity. Otherwise we will grow despondent if there is no visible fruit, even if we are faithful; or we'll take credit for growth rather than giving God the glory. Our relationship with God is based on our faithfulness, regardless of the faithfulness of others to believe or obey what we faithfully proclaim.

Blessings,


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## christianyouth

^^
Amen...Very good points


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## Pergamum

Wannabee said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> That's a frequent calvinist false dichotomy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Actually, it's not. My post was in the context of my earlier post. Such a false dichotomy exists, but, in context, that's clearly not what I was representing. The point is, we can't measure the success of our evangelism on how much we grow in numbers any more than we can measure the success of our teaching on the depth of our people. That's an Arminian mindset and key to seeker friendly ministries. It is an indicator only. But people may get saved in spite of us just as people may grow in spite of us. The focus must be faithfulness first. Do we love God? Do we love people? Are we pursuing that love according to Scripture? Then we are evangelizing and pursuing mutual edification for the glory of God, recognizing that any true fruit is because of God's work as we water and plant seed. If we don't believe this then Jeremiah was a failure as a minister of God.
> 
> Having said that, as my earlier post attests, I'm all for attempting different methods of pursuing the faithful proclamation of the Gospel, even to the point of using my K9 . What works in the south may not work here, and what works in the city won't work in the small town our country. We must strive to adapt to the culture and demographic of the area, while never compromising on the Gospel by attempting to sell it or package it in any way that points to our reliance upon ourselves or our ingenuity. Otherwise we will grow despondent if there is no visible fruit, even if we are faithful; or we'll take credit for growth rather than giving God the glory. Our relationship with God is based on our faithfulness, regardless of the faithfulness of others to believe or obey what we faithfully proclaim.
> 
> Blessings,
Click to expand...



God ordains the means as well as the ends and even while God can work despite us, if we use appropriate means and labor vigorously God seems to predestinate success moreso than if we do not labor vigorously and if we use less-than-appropriate means. 

One cannot say that another does not trust in God's sovereignty if they research and try to figure out how to adapt one's outreach to fit a certain context.

Of course, faithfulness and glorifying God is the main thing. But if God wills it, we also long to add numbers and have fruit as well.

A lot of calvinists use the sovereignty of God to excuse laziness. "Well, the Lord just is not bringing folks in." one pastor told me, as we stood in front of his rural church that had no presence on the web, nor in the phone book, and the sign out front was old and barely readable.


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## Kevin

Perg, The short answer is no. We tried it last summer for 4 weeks & learned alot, but no known fruit. 

One of the main things we learned is that it takes alot for an ordinary middle class family to stop what they are doing & to walk up to a group & join in. We are praying for a plan that will give us a way to engage people in a natural way.

Our Sunday night downtown dinner does bring in about a half dozen new people every month. We have long term relationships with 3 families & one single guy. Plus we give a lot of Bibles to moslems.


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## Wannabee

We've witnessed an interesting phenomena in regard to purposeful and diligent evangelism. First, a dear friend who's a missionary in Italy has started getting more active in evangelism again. But, as hard as they work at it, they rarely get anyone to even so much as visit their church. In over a year of doing this they've only had one person come to their church. And they've literally talked to hundreds, if not over a thousand, and handed out tracts to thousands. What's interesting is that their church is growing. They'd been rather stagnant for years, though growing in Christ. Now they're seeing people come, though they didn't contact them through their evangelistic efforts. Just recently a man contacted them because he found one of their tracts laying in the dirt at the side of the road, so I guess that's from their efforts. But it seems that God is rewarding their faithfulness to work hard at evangelism, just not through the evangelism itself. Perhaps this is one way to keep us humble, as we see growth, but can't attribute it directly to our hard efforts. 
Our church experienced much the same thing a few years ago, before I came here. They said that they're not aware of anyone coming to their church through their outreach, though they basically canvassed the town here. Yet the church grew in numbers quite a bit during just a couple of years. People just showed up, or called and asked some questions. Again, God apparently rewarding faithfulness.
I don't know that these two instances are typical. But in both cases it seemed as if God was bringing people in light of faithfulness, but not directly through their faithfulness. I wouldn't want to make too much of it, but it is an interesting situation.


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## Pergamum

Wannabee said:


> We've witnessed an interesting phenomena in regard to purposeful and diligent evangelism. First, a dear friend who's a missionary in Italy has started getting more active in evangelism again. But, as hard as they work at it, they rarely get anyone to even so much as visit their church. In over a year of doing this they've only had one person come to their church. And they've literally talked to hundreds, if not over a thousand, and handed out tracts to thousands. What's interesting is that their church is growing. They'd been rather stagnant for years, though growing in Christ. Now they're seeing people come, though they didn't contact them through their evangelistic efforts. Just recently a man contacted them because he found one of their tracts laying in the dirt at the side of the road, so I guess that's from their efforts. But it seems that God is rewarding their faithfulness to work hard at evangelism, just not through the evangelism itself. Perhaps this is one way to keep us humble, as we see growth, but can't attribute it directly to our hard efforts.
> Our church experienced much the same thing a few years ago, before I came here. They said that they're not aware of anyone coming to their church through their outreach, though they basically canvassed the town here. Yet the church grew in numbers quite a bit during just a couple of years. People just showed up, or called and asked some questions. Again, God apparently rewarding faithfulness.
> I don't know that these two instances are typical. But in both cases it seemed as if God was bringing people in light of faithfulness, but not directly through their faithfulness. I wouldn't want to make too much of it, but it is an interesting situation.



Wow, thanks for sharing.


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## Tim

If one wants to learn more about open air evangelism and open air preaching, go no further than Living Waters - Home.

I can't say enough good things about these guys. In my opinion the examples you see on the website are a faithful witness of the Lord Jesus Christ.


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## Der Pilger

Hi all,

Good discussion. I thought I'd jump in with a short post. A couple people have made comments about what is effective and what "works" in evangelism, and I think what they mean is whether the evangelism succeeds or not. It is impossible to know, however, whether success has been attained without first clearly identifying one's goal. To use an analogy from our school days: We knew we successfully passed a test when our grade exceeded a certain percentage. Had we not known what that benchmark number was, we would have always wondered whether we passed the test or not. Similarly, we need to define clearly what our goals in evangelism are. 
If the goal is an increase in the numbers of church attenders, for example, and the church is not increasing in numerical size, then one can say that one's method was not successful. If one's goal is to see souls make an outward profession of faith, and not a single person makes such a profession, then one can say, again, that the method was ineffective. If, however, one's goal is to be faithful and obedient in proclaiming the good news, to teach the word of Christ thoroughly and accurately and to glorify God, then one's ministry will certainly be successful as long as the gospel is proclaimed fully and correctly. 

The only criterion, then, for determining success or failure is the *content* of one's message, not its results. in my opinion, a ministry needs to be evaluated on the basis of its doctrine, not its fruit. If evangelism is defined as proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ thoroughly and correctly--and if this is done--then that evangelism has a 0% failure rate.


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## Kevin

Jeremy, I (think that I) know what you mean, but I am not sure that i agree 100%.

If I set out to share my faith & I was entirely orthodox in my presentation, and yet by my personal dress, attitude, and manner I was saying something diferent from my words, then I would not consider this to be sucessful.

in my opinion


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## JBaldwin

I think that you have to do what works well in the community where you are. In some places park evangelism is offensive. Have you tried getting out to public open air events and inviting folks to a Bible study? Perhaps one where they would get an introduction to Christianity and the Bible?


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## Der Pilger

Kevin said:


> Jeremy, I (think that I) know what you mean, but I am not sure that i agree 100%.
> 
> If I set out to share my faith & I was entirely orthodox in my presentation, and yet by my personal dress, attitude, and manner I was saying something diferent from my words, then I would not consider this to be sucessful.
> 
> in my opinion



Yes, if we bring shame on God's name by sinful conduct, then we have failed to glorify God. Conducting oneself in a way that is not sinful is essential when doing public outreach, as it is in all areas of our lives. But I'm afraid you may have missed the point of my post, which was to emphasize the difference between determining success by *results* and determining it by *doctrine*. The former is embraced by evangelical churches for the most part, IME, while the latter is barely considered, if at all.

-----Added 6/1/2009 at 05:41:33 EST-----



JBaldwin said:


> I think that you have to do what works well in the community where you are. In some places park evangelism is offensive.



How do you know?


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## JonathanHunt

Pergs

Back in London my friends at the Metropolitan Tabernacle go out to the Parks on Lord's Day afternoons. Approaches vary - one of the deacons, who is a tall, strong, west indian guy, simply walks up to people and says 'hello my friend, how is it with your soul?'

It seems to work for him. Others strike up conversations, but they are up front about what they are doing., For certain communities in London (south american, some parts of africa) people chatting in public places is normal, and so it works quite well.

Where I live 100 miles away, which is nearly 100% white british, talking to people anywhere is weird, although striking up a conversation in public is easier, and less offensive, than knocking on the door of their castle (an Englishman's home is his castle - a truer saying never existed).


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## Pergamum

Der Pilger said:


> Hi all,
> 
> Good discussion. I thought I'd jump in with a short post. A couple people have made comments about what is effective and what "works" in evangelism, and I think what they mean is whether the evangelism succeeds or not. It is impossible to know, however, whether success has been attained without first clearly identifying one's goal. To use an analogy from our school days: We knew we successfully passed a test when our grade exceeded a certain percentage. Had we not known what that benchmark number was, we would have always wondered whether we passed the test or not. Similarly, we need to define clearly what our goals in evangelism are.
> If the goal is an increase in the numbers of church attenders, for example, and the church is not increasing in numerical size, then one can say that one's method was not successful. If one's goal is to see souls make an outward profession of faith, and not a single person makes such a profession, then one can say, again, that the method was ineffective. If, however, one's goal is to be faithful and obedient in proclaiming the good news, to teach the word of Christ thoroughly and accurately and to glorify God, then one's ministry will certainly be successful as long as the gospel is proclaimed fully and correctly.
> 
> The only criterion, then, for determining success or failure is the *content* of one's message, not its results. in my opinion, a ministry needs to be evaluated on the basis of its doctrine, not its fruit. If evangelism is defined as proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ thoroughly and correctly--and if this is done--then that evangelism has a 0% failure rate.




If that is 100% true then the Fundy preachers that stand at steet corners and yell at people are successful, even though they make the Gospel appear to be an offensive thing.

-----Added 6/1/2009 at 10:34:06 EST-----



JonathanHunt said:


> Pergs
> 
> Back in London my friends at the Metropolitan Tabernacle go out to the Parks on Lord's Day afternoons. Approaches vary - one of the deacons, who is a tall, strong, west indian guy, simply walks up to people and says 'hello my friend, how is it with your soul?'
> 
> It seems to work for him. Others strike up conversations, but they are up front about what they are doing., For certain communities in London (south american, some parts of africa) people chatting in public places is normal, and so it works quite well.
> 
> Where I live 100 miles away, which is nearly 100% white british, talking to people anywhere is weird, although striking up a conversation in public is easier, and less offensive, than knocking on the door of their castle (an Englishman's home is his castle - a truer saying never existed).




Yes, Hyde park (and maybe other parks in England, I don't know) seem to be like modern areopagus's and provides a means of public discourse not usually appropriate now in the West.


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## JBaldwin

Der Pilger said:


> JBaldwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you have to do what works well in the community where you are. In some places park evangelism is offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
Click to expand...


By experience. I live in a community where the local college kids from a certain fundy university go to a nearby park weekly for park evangelism and the only people who come to listen are the other fundies. This is the same for standing on the street corners passing out tracts, street preaching and just about any kind of "in your face" public evangelism. The people in my community are so hardened to it, that they refuse to listen. 

On the other hand, I have a friend who is doing church planting a city in New Hampshire, a city that has few believers, and their park evangelism is well-recieved. 

I saw the same thing traveling from village to village in rural France doing open air evangelism in the markets. In some villages the people were responsive, in other places they passed by and jeered and disrupted us. 

Even Jesus experienced different responses to the Gospel and approached it different ways.


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## CharlieJ

This is a very interesting thread. In my lifetime, I've witnessed all sorts of things be effective and ineffective. I've spent hundreds if not thousands of hours in door-to-door, street, and mall evangelism. I can't think right now of any growth from street evangelism. I know of one teenage boy who came to Christ from Satanism from mall evangelism. I've known of many people who came to church at least from door to door work that focused primarily on friendly first contact and an information packet. I know of two teenage girls who came to Christ at a church-sponsored youth event

But, I think I've had equal "success" by accident. My next door neighbor came to Christ through my witness when we were both teens on the basketball court. One of my best friends at BJU realized he wasn't a Christian; I was able to be a part of his coming to Christ. Several more relationship-oriented circumstances come to mind.

On the other hand, my dad has had more results through street evangelism, a drug addiction program, and preaching in prison. Would your suburban church be open to convict growth?

In short, I'll never know how much my street-type of evangelism actually accomplished. Probably more than I can see, but it still seems like a lot of effort for sparse results. However, the biggest change was in me. God used those times to give me and the people with me a burden for the lost. Because of those experiences, I think about the souls of people around me more. The street evangelism was good training for those relationship moments. These days... I feel like I hardly do any evangelism. I would like to do more.


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## LawrenceU

I haven't been paying attention to this thread for some reason. Shame on me. I firmly believe that God uses different people in different ways in sharing the gospel within the same congregation. Some people can be effective in sharing the gospel in a park, others are effective in their relationships at work, and so on.

In congregations that I have served we have seen a variety of methods result in conversions and church growth, although at different rates at different times. One of the most effective realities is that of 'oikos'. Everyone has relationship networks, their oikos. Sharing the gospel within that oikos can be very effective. Hopefully, you have credibility as a bearer of the message as a Christian. Having said that, it bears noting that a Christian should be intentional in developing relationships with the unsaved.

Another note, all too often Christians forget the role of prayer and fasting in evangelism. We are confronting spiritual death and blindness when we share the gospel. We should fast and pray for effectiveness in our endeavours.


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## Pergamum

LawrenceU said:


> I haven't been paying attention to this thread for some reason. Shame on me. I firmly believe that God uses different people in different ways in sharing the gospel within the same congregation. Some people can be effective in sharing the gospel in a park, others are effective in their relationships at work, and so on.
> 
> In congregations that I have served we have seen a variety of methods result in conversions and church growth, although at different rates at different times. One of the most effective realities is that of 'oikos'. Everyone has relationship networks, their oikos. Sharing the gospel within that oikos can be very effective. Hopefully, you have credibility as a bearer of the message as a Christian. Having said that, it bears noting that a Christian should be intentional in developing relationships with the unsaved.
> 
> Another note, all too often Christians forget the role of prayer and fasting in evangelism. We are confronting spiritual death and blindness when we share the gospel. We should fast and pray for effectiveness in our endeavours.




One suggestion to take advantage of this relational approach towards evangelism: List 20 unsaved friends and family members that you already have a relationship with, and then make them a "spiritual project" of deliberate prayer and try to bless them in all ways possible.


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## LawrenceU

Pergamum said:


> LawrenceU said:
> 
> 
> 
> I haven't been paying attention to this thread for some reason. Shame on me. I firmly believe that God uses different people in different ways in sharing the gospel within the same congregation. Some people can be effective in sharing the gospel in a park, others are effective in their relationships at work, and so on.
> 
> In congregations that I have served we have seen a variety of methods result in conversions and church growth, although at different rates at different times. One of the most effective realities is that of 'oikos'. Everyone has relationship networks, their oikos. Sharing the gospel within that oikos can be very effective. Hopefully, you have credibility as a bearer of the message as a Christian. Having said that, it bears noting that a Christian should be intentional in developing relationships with the unsaved.
> 
> Another note, all too often Christians forget the role of prayer and fasting in evangelism. We are confronting spiritual death and blindness when we share the gospel. We should fast and pray for effectiveness in our endeavours.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> One suggestion to take advantage of this relational approach towards evangelism: List 20 unsaved friends and family members that you already have a relationship with, and then make them a "spiritual project" of deliberate prayer and try to bless them in all ways possible.
Click to expand...

.

Absolutely. We keep a list as a congregation which contains all of our 'targets' that we have individually.


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## Der Pilger

Pergamum said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Good discussion. I thought I'd jump in with a short post. A couple people have made comments about what is effective and what "works" in evangelism, and I think what they mean is whether the evangelism succeeds or not. It is impossible to know, however, whether success has been attained without first clearly identifying one's goal. To use an analogy from our school days: We knew we successfully passed a test when our grade exceeded a certain percentage. Had we not known what that benchmark number was, we would have always wondered whether we passed the test or not. Similarly, we need to define clearly what our goals in evangelism are.
> If the goal is an increase in the numbers of church attenders, for example, and the church is not increasing in numerical size, then one can say that one's method was not successful. If one's goal is to see souls make an outward profession of faith, and not a single person makes such a profession, then one can say, again, that the method was ineffective. If, however, one's goal is to be faithful and obedient in proclaiming the good news, to teach the word of Christ thoroughly and accurately and to glorify God, then one's ministry will certainly be successful as long as the gospel is proclaimed fully and correctly.
> 
> The only criterion, then, for determining success or failure is the *content* of one's message, not its results. in my opinion, a ministry needs to be evaluated on the basis of its doctrine, not its fruit. If evangelism is defined as proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ thoroughly and correctly--and if this is done--then that evangelism has a 0% failure rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is 100% true then the Fundy preachers that stand at steet corners and yell at people are successful, even though they make the Gospel appear to be an offensive thing.
Click to expand...


Pergamum, please see my response to Kevin about the issue of sinful conduct when sharing the gospel.

-----Added 6/4/2009 at 01:17:25 EST-----



LawrenceU said:


> Absolutely. We keep a list as a congregation which contains all of our 'targets' that we have individually.



I wonder...By targeting a limited number of people--a subset of the population--are we actually missing something about the Great Commission, which has as its target the entire world? Now I know that one church cannot reach the entire world all on its own, so please don't think that's what I'm implying. But I still can't help having doubts about this kind of limitation of the gospel audience. Surely we can target more than just the people we already know?

-----Added 6/4/2009 at 01:33:01 EST-----



JBaldwin said:


> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> JBaldwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I think that you have to do what works well in the community where you are. In some places park evangelism is offensive.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How do you know?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> By experience. I live in a community where the local college kids from a certain fundy university go to a nearby park weekly for park evangelism and the only people who come to listen are the other fundies. This is the same for standing on the street corners passing out tracts, street preaching and just about any kind of "in your face" public evangelism. The people in my community are so hardened to it, that they refuse to listen.
Click to expand...


But how do you know that it is really the method that is offensive? Have you asked them? And even if you asked them and their answers confirmed your thoughts, how do you know they were being entirely sincere? Perhaps what they really found offensive was the requirement to do something they don't want to do--repent and believe. Perhaps not. The trouble is we can never really know the reason for sure beyond what scripture tells us. That's the problem with rejecting or accepting a particular approach because of the manner in which people respond to it--we'd be making a decision on how to present the vital message of the gospel based on insufficient information.



> Even Jesus experienced different responses to the Gospel and approached it different ways.



Really? While he did experience different responses to the Gospel, I thought the common denominator throughout all his ministry was teaching the truth--everywhere he went. I thought it was the same with the apostles, too. I don't recall their ever changing their approach because of the manner in which people responded.


----------



## Pergamum

Der Pilger said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Der Pilger said:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi all,
> 
> Good discussion. I thought I'd jump in with a short post. A couple people have made comments about what is effective and what "works" in evangelism, and I think what they mean is whether the evangelism succeeds or not. It is impossible to know, however, whether success has been attained without first clearly identifying one's goal. To use an analogy from our school days: We knew we successfully passed a test when our grade exceeded a certain percentage. Had we not known what that benchmark number was, we would have always wondered whether we passed the test or not. Similarly, we need to define clearly what our goals in evangelism are.
> If the goal is an increase in the numbers of church attenders, for example, and the church is not increasing in numerical size, then one can say that one's method was not successful. If one's goal is to see souls make an outward profession of faith, and not a single person makes such a profession, then one can say, again, that the method was ineffective. If, however, one's goal is to be faithful and obedient in proclaiming the good news, to teach the word of Christ thoroughly and accurately and to glorify God, then one's ministry will certainly be successful as long as the gospel is proclaimed fully and correctly.
> 
> The only criterion, then, for determining success or failure is the *content* of one's message, not its results. in my opinion, a ministry needs to be evaluated on the basis of its doctrine, not its fruit. If evangelism is defined as proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ thoroughly and correctly--and if this is done--then that evangelism has a 0% failure rate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If that is 100% true then the Fundy preachers that stand at steet corners and yell at people are successful, even though they make the Gospel appear to be an offensive thing.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Pergamum, please see my response to Kevin about the issue of sinful conduct when sharing the gospel.
> 
> -----Added 6/4/2009 at 01:17:25 EST-----
> 
> 
> 
> I wonder...By targeting a limited number of people--a subset of the population--are we actually missing something about the Great Commission, which has as its target the entire world? Now I know that one church cannot reach the entire world all on its own, so please don't think that's what I'm implying. But I still can't help having doubts about this kind of limitation of the gospel audience. Surely we can target more than just the people we already know?
> 
> -----Added 6/4/2009 at 01:33:01 EST-----
> 
> 
> 
> JBaldwin said:
> 
> 
> 
> By experience. I live in a community where the local college kids from a certain fundy university go to a nearby park weekly for park evangelism and the only people who come to listen are the other fundies. This is the same for standing on the street corners passing out tracts, street preaching and just about any kind of "in your face" public evangelism. The people in my community are so hardened to it, that they refuse to listen.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> But how do you know that it is really the method that is offensive? Have you asked them? And even if you asked them and their answers confirmed your thoughts, how do you know they were being entirely sincere? Perhaps what they really found offensive was the requirement to do something they don't want to do--repent and believe. Perhaps not. The trouble is we can never really know the reason for sure beyond what scripture tells us. That's the problem with rejecting or accepting a particular approach because of the manner in which people respond to it--we'd be making a decision on how to present the vital message of the gospel based on insufficient information.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Jesus experienced different responses to the Gospel and approached it different ways.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Really? While he did experience different responses to the Gospel, I thought the common denominator throughout all his ministry was teaching the truth--everywhere he went. I thought it was the same with the apostles, too. I don't recall their ever changing their approach because of the manner in which people responded.
Click to expand...


Jesus and Paul both tailored their approach with people to fit their audience. A separate thread could be devoted to this full topic.


----------



## Der Pilger

Pergamum said:


> Jesus and Paul both tailored their approach with people to fit their audience. A separate thread could be devoted to this full topic.



They both consistently took the approach of proclaiming truth directly, immediately and up front. They may have changed the starting point of their message depending on their audience, but they did not change the *manner* in which they communicated the message. For example, Paul's starting point in the synagogues was the scriptures since his audience was Jewish; on Mars Hill, his starting point was to talk about their idolatry and the one true God. In both cases, though, his approach was proclaiming and teaching truth directly.


----------

