# Faith Under Fire Series with Lee Strobel



## cih1355 (Jun 14, 2009)

Here is a mini-debate about the deity of Christ between Mike Licona and Shabir Ally: [video=youtube;grDPJmb3gAs]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grDPJmb3gAs&feature=related[/video]


Shabir Ally says that Jesus could not have been God. He reasons in the following manner: God is infinite. Man is finite. Someone cannot be both infinite and finite because that would involve a logical contradiction. Jesus was a man. Therefore, Jesus could not have been God. How would you respond to this argument?


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## puritanpilgrim (Jun 15, 2009)

Licona is not a good at debate. At least not here. Also he comes across as smug at times. Poor logic and poorly substantiating his claims. Josh McDowell does a good job:

Was Christ Crucified? - The Debate between Ahmed Deedat and Josh McDowell

Old debate, but the best I know.

Here are the mp3's

http://www.discipleshiplibrary.com/josh_mcdowell.php


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## steven-nemes (Jun 20, 2009)

Perhaps this is of some help:

[video=youtube;-UjC2G87kqo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-UjC2G87kqo[/video]


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## Reformed Thomist (Jun 20, 2009)

I've seen Shabir around town a few times; he's a PhD student at my university. He is a formidable opponent -- debaters need to bring their 'A' game with him.

As for the argument, medieval philosopher-theologians, such the logician William of Ockham, dealt with it at length, it being a traditional favorite 'gotcha!' of medieval Islamic thinkers like Avicenna and Averroes -- something of an old canard. Alister E. McGrath's _Studies in Doctrine_ (Zondervan, 1997) has a pretty good discussion of the historical issue, in the section "Understanding the Trinity," where he also refutes the argument.

You know, would be nice if evangelicals like Mike Licona gave any serious attention to the problems and solutions of medieval theology and philosophy (they do not, of course, because "they were all Roman Catholics" and therefore what they had to say is worthless... or something). When debating with learned Muslims, there are a whole host of arguments you will see brought to the table which have already been dealt with conclusively long before the Reformers were born, in between finding out how many angels could dance on the head of a pin.


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## ClayPot (Jun 20, 2009)

He must prove his premise that it is a logical contradiction for an infinite God to be united to a finite man. That is the flaw. Jesus is God and Jesus is man; but Jesus also has two natures, human and divine. His divine nature is infinite and his human nature was finite. So what's the problem?


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## Marrow Man (Jun 21, 2009)

James White has debated Shabir Ally at least a couple of times, but generally on the nature of the NT and Muslim claims that it has been corrupted. I thought White did very well in the one debate I've seen, but Ally seems to be a nice and humble man, even though he is deceived.


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