# Imputation



## JM (Sep 29, 2007)

Does the imputation take place in time or eternity?



> But what are we to think of imputation? Where or when does that take place? Was there a physical court that surrounded the cross of Christ where God accounted the elect as righteous in time? No! Of course not! And don’t try to tell me that an absurdity like this occurred as the full preterists claim when they spew forth their ungodly babble declaring that God entered into a physical heavenly holy of hollies in 70 AD. Imputation is finished, and it always has been. And it hasn’t taken place in time at all.


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Sep 29, 2007)

Who was that? Barth? Brunner?

Sounds like a neo-Orthodox theologian who believes those old orthodox beliefs about redemption occurring in real history were pagan.

Yes, our redemption occurs in real human time and history.

Who runs http://www.pristinegrace.org? I can't get to their website but it seems, from Google, that the quote was taken from them.


----------



## JM (Sep 29, 2007)

It's run by Brandon Kraft. I've heard of Barth and have been instructed by an ARP Pastor that he wasn't neo-orthodox and that I should read him, as for Brunner, I only recently found his name while reading.


----------



## Semper Fidelis (Sep 29, 2007)

I don't know about the other stuff he teaches but that quote above is bunk. It's certainly not Reformed.

I noted that the quote _sounds_ neo-Orthodox.


----------



## turmeric (Sep 29, 2007)

Here ya go! You know the bit about enquiring minds - it's long, though, sorry.

Welcome to the new Pristine Grace website! In today's evil age, very few people who profess Christ truly understand the Gospel. Many believe that Jesus died for all men universally and that the difference between those who are saved and not saved is the individual's "free will" decision.

There are others who are more enlightened but yet still believe in things like the doctrine of "common grace", the doctrine of "duty-faith" or the "free offer" of the Gospel. We believe these doctrines are erroneous and profane God's precious love for His elect. We prefer the word "free" or "pristine" instead of the word "common" to describe grace as the Bible declares God's love to be found only in God's Son, and that all of Grace is of the will of God and not corrupted or stained by the will of man, hence the adjective "pristine".

Some would also call us hardshell hyper-calvinists because we believe in the absolute predestination of all things - that is there isn't a single event that occurs that God did not predestine. We believe He is absolutely Sovereign! We believe He HAS saved His people from their sins.

This website features the writings of Bob Higby and Brandan Kraft.

The primary confessional document for this website is the Gospel Standard Articles of Faith. We hope you find this website useful. - 5solas.org.


Looks kinda hyper to me!


----------



## bookslover (Sep 29, 2007)

JM said:


> It's run by Brandon Kraft. I've heard of Barth and have been instructed by an ARP Pastor that he wasn't neo-orthodox and that I should read him, as for Brunner, I only recently found his name while reading.



Karl Barth (1886-1968), the Swiss theologian, was the founder of neo-orthodox theology: more conservative than the old classic liberal theology of the late 19th century, but much more liberal (especially in its doctrine of Scripture) than classic orthodox conservative theology. His writings, especially his interminable _Church Dogmatics_, can be murky and difficult to read.

Emil Brunner (1889-1966), the German theologian, was a member of Barth's generation; he also was neo-orthodox. He wrote several neo-orthodox volumes on basic doctrine. He is much easier to read than Barth.

The joke always was that people claimed to read Barth but actually read Brunner.


----------



## Israelite (Oct 1, 2007)

Brandan Kraft and Robert Higby's main aim at the moment is to convince the world that James, ecclesiastes, Song of solomon and Esther shouldn't be a part of the biblical canon but rejected.
Mainly focusing on rejecting James.

The board is pretty much dead now as they only have around 5-6 regular participants and Brandan bans whoever doesn't agree with him.

Romans 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.


----------



## VictorBravo (Oct 1, 2007)

Romans 4:24: But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead.


μέλλει λογίζεσθαι doesn't sound like past tense to me.


----------



## JM (Oct 2, 2007)

Israelite said:


> Brandan Kraft and Robert Higby's main aim at the moment is to convince the world that James, ecclesiastes, Song of solomon and Esther shouldn't be a part of the biblical canon but rejected.
> Mainly focusing on rejecting James.
> 
> The board is pretty much dead now as they only have around 5-6 regular participants and Brandan bans whoever doesn't agree with him.
> ...



I disagreed with Brandan's crew on the issue of James, Robert Higby seemed fine with it and I wasn't banned. I visit his board once in a while but not as often as I once did, the rejection of James bothers me.

Peace.

j


----------



## Mayflower (Oct 2, 2007)

Israelite said:


> Brandan Kraft and Robert Higby's main aim at the moment is to convince the world that James, *ecclesiastes, Song of solomon and Esther *shouldn't be a part of the biblical canon but rejected.
> Mainly focusing on rejecting James.



About James i heard, but not that ecclesiastes, Song of solomon and Esther they rejected. Do you the link , were i read that they rejected it ?


----------



## Israelite (Oct 2, 2007)

Mayflower said:


> Israelite said:
> 
> 
> > Brandan Kraft and Robert Higby's main aim at the moment is to convince the world that James, *ecclesiastes, Song of solomon and Esther *shouldn't be a part of the biblical canon but rejected.
> ...



It's on their site, i have read it with my own eyes. I am not allowed on there, Brandan banned me for speaking out against their heresies and i cannot even access the site.
although i think i can access 5solas, his other site, it may be on there, i will check when time permits and if i find it i'll forward it to you.

my friend also told me they were attacking 1st John aswell. I don't know if they still do though. problem is Brandan is money hungry as you can see from his new shop where he is trying to make merchandise of God's people and charges you to read the archives on his site.

Brandan deleted my posts and the entire thread regarding disproving James. I think enough of us spoke out against their errors for him to do this.

*Matthew 15:14
Let them alone: they be blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind lead the blind, both shall fall into the ditch. *


----------



## greenbaggins (Oct 2, 2007)

*Goodwin on Imputation*

I think this post deserves careful consideration.


----------



## Jimmy the Greek (Oct 3, 2007)

Lane,
That's a very intersting article on Goodwin's understanding. Thanks.

Jim


----------

