# New Calvinism/New Covenant Theology?



## Dachaser (Nov 4, 2016)

How are these two new theological concepts discussed in reformed circles now?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 4, 2016)

Here are a few reference papers for you to read by Dr. Greg Welty concerning New Covenant Theology from a Noted Baptist Prof.

Escatological Fulfilment and the Confirmation of the Mosaic Law
(A response to D. A. Carson / Fred Zaspel on Matthew 5:17-48)

http://www.proginosko.com/welty/carson.htm

A Response to Mike Adams's 'In Defense of the New Covenant'.

http://www.proginosko.com/welty/adams.htm

In Response to Steve Lehrer's "Israel: An Unbelieving People pt. 1"

http://www.proginosko.com/welty/lehrer.htm

A Response to Steve Lehrer's "The Active Obedience of Christ in New Covenant Theolgy pt.2"

http://www.proginosko.com/welty/lehrer2.htm

Those should be helpful.

My bud wrote this booklet that I appreciated a lot. 

In Defense of the Decalogue, a critique of New Covenant Theology

https://www.amazon.com/Defense-Decalogue-Critique-Covenant-Theology/dp/0965495590


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## Dachaser (Nov 4, 2016)

Can one hold to a NCT viewpoint and stay Reformed then?

If not, would they now be calvinist only?


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## arapahoepark (Nov 4, 2016)

Dachaser said:


> Can one hold to a NCT viewpoint and stay Reformed then?
> 
> If not, would they now be calvinist only?



The latter. NCT is not reformed as it is not endorsed in the confessions. It sees significantly less continuity between the Old and New Testaments than the confessions allow.


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## Dachaser (Nov 4, 2016)

Is the basic issue here then the idea that the Mosaic Law was meant to continue throughout both Covenants, or that God had that for national isreal under Old one, and that we are under the "law of Christ?"

But would not in actuallity both agree that the moral stadards of God still are in effect as to right/wrong? Thanks for the links, will be studying them in-depth....


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## arapahoepark (Nov 4, 2016)

Dachaser said:


> Is the basic issue here then the idea that the Mosaic Law was meant to continue throughout both Covenants, or that God had that for national isreal under Old one, and that we are under the "law of Christ?"
> 
> But would not in actuallity both agree that the moral stadards of God still are in effect as to right/wrong?



It is more complex than that. A big issue revolved around whether the moral law is normative and that the Sabbath is grounded in creation.

Here is a link to resources that can summarize far better than I can.
https://www.monergism.com/topics/bad-theology/progressive-covenantalism-nct

As a Baptist like me try this:
1689federalism.com
Contrast2.wordpress.com


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## Dachaser (Nov 4, 2016)

Did find this link
http://www.tms.edu/m/tmsj18i.pdf


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## puritanpilgrim (Nov 4, 2016)

> The latter. NCT is not reformed as it is not endorsed in the confessions. It sees significantly less continuity between the Old and New Testaments than the confessions allow.



Ironically, some New Covenant Baptists will claim to hold to the First London Baptist confession, however their views are inconsistent with how the writers would have viewed the covenants.


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## Dachaser (Nov 5, 2016)

So that make them really Calvinistic Baptists?


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## Dachaser (Nov 5, 2016)

So NCT would be stating pretty much that the Mosaic Law was administered just to Israel by God under Old Covenant, and was now replaced under the New One?

Them would seem to be closer to Dispensational viewpoints regarding the law and Christians than regular Covenant Theology?


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 5, 2016)

Dachaser said:


> So NCT would be stating pretty much that the Mosaic Law was administered just to Israel by God under Old Covenant, and was now replaced under the New One?


NCT approach to "law" seems thoroughly prescriptive. Some proponents might allow there to be some natural or constitutional/creational demands standing against murder or theft. But in general, even moral law (as the Reformed Confessions describe it) appears under NCT to be divinely dictated according to a covenant. Such a stance views old covenant Israel as under a completely unique law vis-a-vis the rest of the world. The rest of the OT world _languishes_ in *lawlessness*. They don't simply suffer natural ills or savage cruelties; but they actually lack a universal or locally reliable moral code, since none of them are in covenant with God.

NCT does not admit of the 3-fold categorization of biblical law: moral, ceremonial, and civil. Therefore, NCT must point to "Christ-law," "the law of love," and to "law upon the heart" i.e. the renovated Christian conscience, as definition of law/direction for the new covenant era. For NCT, only the NT is suitable for finding aids to Christian sanctification. NCT cannot look healthfully anywhere in the Mosaic code for instruction in morals, since as they see it such investigation is further instance of "returning under the Law."



Dachaser said:


> Them would seem to be closer to Dispensational viewpoints regarding the law and Christians than regular Covenant Theology?



By their own admission, NCT is a via media between rejections of dispensationalism *and* covenant theology, or more broadly the whole Protestant (and wider) tradition regarding the moral law in a universal aspect. To those of a Reformed confession, NCT is perhaps not practically so much but, indeed, principally antinomian. When you lack categories, or have the wrong categories, you are opened up to unseen dangers. It is not hard to see the danger of self-righteousness in a strong aversion to legal orders, and advocacy of "new-heart" guidance. Legalism and antinomianism are two ditches to avoid.

NCT is a move _away from_ dispensationalism; therefore it is reasonable that this system will reflect more Dispensational particulars and sound like it, rather than selected elements of a rival system (CT) adopted and adapted into a hybrid. We use the language of our heritage most fluently.

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## Dachaser (Nov 5, 2016)

Would not the Law of Christ though by definition include the Commandments of God, as Jesus Himself was the Law giver to Moses, so would he not reflect and retain that Law in regards to how God upholds morality?


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## StephenG (Nov 5, 2016)

I honestly think many of them begin by throwing out the Sabbath and then realize they must also throw out the rest of the Decalogue in order to be consistent.


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## Dachaser (Nov 5, 2016)

StephenG said:


> I honestly think many of them begin by throwing out the Sabbath and then realize they must also throw out the rest of the Decalogue in order to be consistent.



We do not throw out the Sabbath, but was not that not just to isreal though, as we not observe Sunday as the Lord's day?


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## Jake (Nov 5, 2016)

Dachaser said:


> StephenG said:
> 
> 
> > I honestly think many of them begin by throwing out the Sabbath and then realize they must also throw out the rest of the Decalogue in order to be consistent.
> ...



Here's a helpful summary of the Reformed position on the Sabbath from the 22nd chapter of your confession (LBCF 1689. chapter 22, last two paragraphs)



> 7. As it is the law of nature, that in general a proportion of time, by God's appointment, be set apart for the worship of God, so by his Word, in a positive moral, and perpetual commandment, binding all men, in all ages, he hath particularly appointed one day in seven for a sabbath to be kept holy unto him, which from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ was the last day of the week, and from the resurrection of Christ was changed into the first day of the week, which is called the Lord's day: and is to be continued to the end of the world as the Christian Sabbath, the observation of the last day of the week being abolished. ( Exodus 20:8; 1 Corinthians 16:1, 2; Acts 20:7; Revelation 1:10 )
> 
> 8. The sabbath is then kept holy unto the Lord, when men, after a due preparing of their hearts, and ordering their common affairs aforehand, do not only observe an holy rest all day, from their own works, words and thoughts, about their worldly employment and recreations, but are also taken up the whole time in the public and private exercises of his worship, and in the duties of necessity and mercy. ( Isaiah 58:13; Nehemiah 13:15-22; Matthew 12:1-13 )



Source: http://www.arbca.com/1689-chapter22


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## arapahoepark (Nov 5, 2016)

Dachaser said:


> Would not the Law of Christ though by definition include the Commandments of God, as Jesus Himself was the Law giver to Moses, so would he not reflect and retain that Law in regards to how God upholds morality?



Therein lies the problem for New Covenant Theologians. We reformed would affirm what you said. NCT would say no, the law has been changed.


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## Dachaser (Nov 5, 2016)

Think that is where some do get confused, as have debated with 7th day adventist, who swore that Sabbath was still saturday for us, and tried to use bible to show Sunday ids now Lord's day. I do not matter if they have their day as saturday still, but DO mind when all of us should be that way also!


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## Dachaser (Nov 5, 2016)

I cam maybe see their view IF they mean the the Law can get wrppaed up as Jesus did as Love God and love others, but don't think they mean just that, do they?


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