# two covenants with Abraham



## Radar (Jan 25, 2005)

Along the lines of this quote from Philip A,

"I see in the Abrahamic Covenant a distinction between the "œgospel" elements of the "œCovenant of Grace revealed to Abraham" and the "œcivil" elements of the "œCovenant of Circumcision made with Abraham""

Where is this concept explained or expounded upon in the New Testament?


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## Philip A (Jan 25, 2005)

All over!

But more specifically Galatians 4:21-31.

Read it and meditate on it.

Think typologically.

In verse 23, consider "flesh" to be the means of constituting the "civil" nation, and "promise" as a means of constituting the "gospel" nation (which is continuous from Gen 3:25 to Rev 22). 

Ask these questions of it, and the rest of the scriptures:

Why is Hagar associated with Sinai?

Why is circumcision so often associated with Moses?

Think typologically. Meditate on John's criticism of the Pharisees & Sadducees in Matt 3:7-10, Jesus words about children of Abraham in John 8, and Jesus' parable of the tenants in Matt 21, especially verse 43.

How was the gospel first announced to the physical kingdom, the kingdom according to the flesh? What kind of kingdom is at hand?

Two Kingdoms, two nations, two peoples, two covenants, one Abraham.

Then go back and read Galatians 3 & 4 in one sitting. Twice.

Sorry I can only leave you a trail of breadcrumbs, which makes for a too-short and cryptic reply. Lunch break is over! I really have no time this week! 

But then again, these are things that must be studied thoroughly and meditated on, and not at all suited for the kind of "off the cuff" theologizing that internet boards are so prone to. Meditate on these things!

[Edited on 25-1-2005 by Philip A]

[Edited on 25-1-2005 by Philip A]


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 26, 2005)

> *Philip A:*
> Two Kingdoms, two nations, two peoples, two covenants, one Abraham.



Where is there a mention of "two" kingdoms in the NT? None that I know of.

We do, however, see that the Kingdom of GOD (His people, in covenant with Him) can be compared to:
- A Vine with branches; Branches that don't produce fruit (but are ON THE VINE AND PART OF SOMETHING) are *cut off and thrown in the fire* at the end of the age! They were part of the covenant, the kingdom of God, and then cut off for not producing fruit.
- A field of wheat with tares sown in by the enemy; The tares are separated from the wheat at the END OF TIME when the angels throw the tares (who were all along part of the kingdom, visibly and in covenant with God) into the fire.
- A group of 12 disciples, one of them being a traitor and covenant breaker/apostate; Christ, knowing this, still gives him the CUP OF THE NEW COVENANT IN HIS OWN BLOOD!; I guess Jesus Christ was in error to include an apostate/covenant breaker, unregenerate person in His covenant?

There's many more examples that could be given, but your simple reduction of the Abrahamic covenant doesn't hold up, as the line of "the flesh" is referring to what we now know as the Muslim nation; Are you saying that the Muslims are in covenant with God? I would hope not. They are the line of the "flesh" because they are turned over to the law as a curse, being separated from God. Those who are of the line of the "promise" are those who are in covenant with God. We all know that Scripture clearly teaches us that only those who persevere and endure will be saved, and that this is the work of God in the hearts of men. We are also told to make our "calling and election" sure. Why be told these things unless there are many who are in covenant with God, yet not saved? Hebrews makes this idea very clear, as well. Chapter 10 is the most compelling evidence for covenant breaking in all of Scripture, aside from the very words and teachings of Jesus Christ Himself...

Hagar is associated with Sinai (the giving of the Law), because, as we all know, Paul's issue at hand in Galatians is justification by FAITH IN Christ ALONE apart from external works of the Law. Those who live by the law die by the law as a curse. Hagar and her seed are associated with Sinai because they are NOT in covenant with God, they are left to the law as a curse, with the rest of mankind outside of God's covenant of grace. The law was only a blessing to the elect, as it pointed them and their faith towards the work of Christ.

You are taking Galatians 3-4 way out of context to justify your presuppositions about what Paul should be saying according to your misreading of the Abrahamic covenant.

Grace and peace,
Gabe


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 26, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, "And to seeds," as of many, but as of one, "And to your Seed," who is Christ.



 Precisely my point!

The Word of God clears things up for us! Case closed.


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