# sovereign grace pastor in a predominate free will church?



## thistle93 (Aug 5, 2010)

Hi! This question is primarily for those who are pastors/elders.

I am a pastor of a SBC church who passionately believes in sovereign grace as the means to salvation. The predominate view in the congregation is that while God is sovereign yet people still have free will. So far this has not caused great controversy but I see signs that it could in the future. I have had only one person express their concern over this matter. They do not question my motives but that this might cause disunity or confusion in the body. I do not question his genuineness but he has a very prejudice view based on preconceived notions. 

I believe prevention is the best medicine. So my first question is how best to prevent this controversy without compromising the truth?

My second question is, if controversy does come how best to approach and handle it?

Finally, when do you know if you are doing more harm than good for yourself or the congregation by continuing in that congregation? I have only been at the church for only 2 years. So I wonder if it is still too soon to make a conclusion. And if one is to leave, who should it be, the member or the pastor? 

I personally feel I have grown more through my experience in this church then if I pastored a church with a similar view as mine. And I think as one who truly believes God is sovereign than His word does not return void, no matter who I am preaching/teaching and that God’s purpose will be ultimately be accomplished. 

There are those who first sign of trouble, leave. Then there are those who as the church is burning down around them, refuse to leave. I don’t want to be either. 

I believe that God is grieved over the division in the church over this issue. Any personal experience stories would be greatly appreciated. I know that primarily I need to follow the directive and guidance of the Holy Spirit but I also believe God give us people to speak into our lives. Thank you!


For His Glory-
matthew


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## Willem van Oranje (Aug 5, 2010)

My feeling is that if you clearly, patiently, lovingly, and faithfully exposit the Scriptures, not caring what anyone says, it will eventually come to a head, and at least then you will know who is regenerate among you. The rest will leave or openly oppose you. And then I'm hoping you will still have a congregation. And then you will be better off as a church, without the goats.


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## Scott1 (Aug 5, 2010)

There have been many good threads about this on the Board, you might find helpful (search feature, upper right).

The only way around this is careful, thorough biblical teaching. When God's people get that, it's amazing what happens- they are changed for life in the way they view themselves, and God.

As you know, God can't be sovereign (and can't be God) if He is any way limited by His creation. It's not even possible that God be limited by His Creatures.

And you know, God has free will. And man has free will. But God's will is more free than man's.

One of the best series to approach this topic is RC Sproul's, What is Reformed Theology? (12 part series) It is excellent in Sunday School, small group, or family formats, as well as having good content that can be drawn on for sermons. Here's a couple on-line video chapters that pertain to this:

http://www.ligonier.org/learn/series/what_is_reformed_theology/total-depravity-part-1/

Here's an excellent book for people to read that deals with this systematic theology:
http://www.amazon.com/Five-Points-Calvinism-Edwin-Palmer/dp/0801069262

Also, an excellent video series, The Providence of God:
http://www.ligonier.org/store/providence-of-god-cd-collection-cd/

I'm not sure of all your situation, but here's what I would do, having seen this done:

1) Don't focus your entire preaching on the "five points" but deal with them in the ordinary course of preaching through things generally

2) Get a Sunday School class, small group going to lead that you can teach through several times with materials such as the ones above

3) Be a resource person to help those seeking to study these related doctrines (the doctrines of grace out)

4) Remember, believing in the sovereignty of God as you do, your challenge is not to anticipate really what God may or not do in the lives of His people with this truth, but rather, your calling is to be faithful in circumstances He has appointed for you.


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## Daniel Haley (Aug 5, 2010)

I like Scott's approach. My former Pastor, Ken Jones had a similar issue when he first starting reforming our church. It was a very difficult, at times worship service would only have 5 attendees! However, he was with the church for over 20 years before departing, and our church is as solid as ever. He writes a chapter in a book titled Glory Road about this experience if your interested. Within the last few months he recently relocated because he was called to Pastor..... whaddya know, at an SBC church in Florida, Glendale Missionary Baptist Church. You may want to drop him a line, I'm confident he'd be able to provide you with some wisdom. If you want any more details just let me know.


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## Jack K (Aug 5, 2010)

There's a very similar situation in a Baptist church I know well. The pastor treasures the doctrines of grace, but many in the congregation are suspicious of it. He will stand firm when pressed, but generally doesn't go looking for conflicts. He brings it up gently where appropriate. He desires to win over the congregation, not win a fight.

He also has the advantage of a strong elder-type adult Sunday school teacher who pushes the docrines of grace more forcefully, playing "bad cop" to the pastor's "good cop." It gives the pastor a bit of insulation, which seems to work well in a Baptist governance setting.

Not sure if any of that would apply to your situation, but thought I'd share the story.


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## Ivan (Aug 5, 2010)

I suppose I'm in a similar situation. At this point there is probably only a couple of true “5 Pointers” at my church. My associate pastor and his family went to start a church, he and his wife were Calvinists and the gentleman from whom I bought the house was a Calvinist, although he was actually unaware of it. Over my four years there have been a number of others that have come and went.

Expository preaching is the best way to go, I believe, dealing with the text and what doctrines may come, is an excellent idea. There is a progression of thought that makes it much easier to deal with these doctrines. I mean, its right there!

Last year I took over the adult Sunday School class for a number of reasons, one of which was to make sure correct doctrine was being taught. Because of circumstances we do not have Sunday School per se at the moment, but I did start a study of the book, “Knowing God” by J.I. Packer. That is an excellent approach, particularly with books as poplar as that one. I intend to use “Desiring God” by Piper sometime in the future (yeah, don’t flip, some of you. LOL)!

I take an irenic approach. That’s part of my nature (generally). It has worked well for me. Frankly, I just teach the Bible. My interpretation is sometimes a tad different than some Southern Baptist pastors. ;-)

As to when a pastor should leave a church, that’s must more subjective. Circumstances do play a big part. Sometimes I think it’s difficult to determine if what is happening is due to what you are doing. I suppose if one looked at the last six months at Maranatha, it would appear that I have done the church harm. Don’t numbers tell it all? We have gone from 40 to 10! However, other than the one family leaving to start a church, the other departures were for the good of the church. If I had left one of two things would have happened: 1) the church would have become a seeker-sensitive, contemporary-only music, feel-good, touchy-feely, etc. kind of church. A church where the wrath of God, repentance of sin and the doctrine of hell would never had been preached. It would have been, at best, a “Decisionism“-type church….OR….2) it would have disbanded and went out of existence in a community that has NO faithful preaching of the Gospel. 

I believe I made the right choice to stay.


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## LawrenceU (Aug 6, 2010)

I've served in that situation twice. Briefly here are some things I learned:

1. Don't present 'Calvinism' just preach the Scriptures. In doing so avoid theologically loaded buzz words unless they are clearly used in the text. Use textual terminology.

2. Love people well, even those that disagree with you. 

3. Remember, if God called you there and you preach the Scriptures lovingly and faithfully anything 'bad' that happens to you is good. I have found after the fact that when I suffered mistreatment and handled it well it was a strong testimony both to the Lord and to the doctrine I was teaching.


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