# What is it about Macs...?



## Der Pilger (Dec 30, 2010)

I'll say at the outset here that I own two Apple devices: an iPod Touch and an iPad. Both are great. Their mobile devices (iPhone, Touch, iPad, etc.) are really where Apple shines, in my opinion. But I get baffled by Apple's high prices for desktops and laptops. My congratulations to those of you who have found them to be actually affordable. They're good computers, but they are bleeding expensive compared to comparable PCs. I could have a PC custom-built for a fraction of what an Apple computer costs. Obviously, though, they sell, so there must be something special about them that makes that extra cost worth it. I just don't know what that is.


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## Phil D. (Dec 30, 2010)

Well, in all honesty I have never heard a MAC buyer express regret or even frustration regarding their purchase. I certainly cannot say the same about PC/Windows users. My son works for Apple, and he has told me that their business model is essentially providing the best possible product, and then effectively charging what it actually cost to develop and produce. No sales or gimmicks - just you get what you pay for. It seems to be working, since MACs have tripled their market share for personal computers over the last 5 years - although admittedly it is still a relatively modest 15% or so.


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## raekwon (Dec 30, 2010)

As an IT professional and a Mac user, I can attest that in many cases, the total cost of ownership (including repair/upkeep) for a Mac often ends up being less than that of a similarly outfitted PC.


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## Der Pilger (Dec 30, 2010)

Phil D. said:


> Well, in all honesty I have never heard a MAC buyer express regret or even frustration regarding their purchase. I certainly cannot say the same about PC/Windows users.



Maybe I've been unusually fortunate, but I have not been frustrated with PCs in the 20 or so years I've been using them. Granted, that could be because I'm somewhat technically inclined. I suppose Macs appeal to users who don't know how to get "under the hood" of a computer.

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raekwon said:


> As an IT professional and a Mac user, I can attest that in many cases, the total cost of ownership (including repair/upkeep) for a Mac often ends up being less than that of a similarly outfitted PC.


 
That's an interesting point. So what you're saying is that Macs last longer/are more reliable than PCs--kind of like owning a good car vs. a less reliable car?


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## Phil D. (Dec 30, 2010)

Der Pilger said:


> Phil D. said:
> 
> 
> > Well, in all honesty I have never heard a MAC buyer express regret or even frustration regarding their purchase. I certainly cannot say the same about PC/Windows users.
> ...


 
Well I know that when I buy a tech device I sure don't want to have to "get under the hood" to keep it functioning right - and I would venture to say that the vast majority of consumers would agree with me.


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## N. Eshelman (Dec 30, 2010)

In seminary I purchased 3 laptops. One Compaq and 2 HPs. They were about $600 each. One broke because of what we would call "human error." I was in seminary 5 years. I have been a pastor for 2 years and have owned one Mac. One Mac which acts the same way that it did when I bought it two years ago. It acts and runs EXACTLY the same. 

One Mac: $1000. It has lasted two years. 
Three HPs: $1800. They lasted 5 years total. 

Any math majors out there to help with the conclusion.


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## LawrenceU (Dec 30, 2010)

I am one who can and does 'get under the hood'. I'm not an expert, but I do fix computers every now and then. I have a MacBook. The only thing I've ever had to do to it is replace a SuperDrive. That most likely was caused by little hands jamming something into it. 

Macs are much cheaper over the long haul. I have had this unit for five years. It is still working flawlessly. I can't say that about any PC product I have ever owned, or known about.


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## JP Wallace (Dec 30, 2010)

I changed to Macs about 5 years ago. before and during that time I had been working professionally on PC and using it at home as well. The initial investment scared me but I have never regreted it.

For me what makes the price worthwhile is:

a) System/Software Integration - everything works together beautifully, software loads perfectly in one go, the hardware is reliable too, and I write this on my Macbook with a dodgy DVD drive and a fried Imac still on the desk opposite. Things happen, but not so frequently in my experience as on PCs. This integration along with the architecture and interface design makes everything just work - no problems no hitches....plug it in and away you go...none of that stupid driver downloading nonsense either which used to drive me mad at work.

b) Constant Speed - they just never slow down. I have faithfully and competently maintained all kinds of PCs but they always slow down. My 4 year old Imac (before it died) was as sharp as the day it came out of the box. Throw more RAM at them (as newer software is developed it nearly always demands more) and they'll happily work for years.

c) No Viruses - this is almost worth the additional price on its own. I'm not silly - I actually run an anti-virus on my Mac all the time (doesn't slow anything down one whit or muck anything up - but the reality is virus fighting is THE major problem with PC.

d) The Freeware - for Mac is unbelievably good and nice to look at too.


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## Der Pilger (Dec 30, 2010)

So buying PCs is being "penny wise, dollar foolish." Funny thing, though, is that I've never had to get a new PC because of malfunctions or breakdowns. Whenever I get a new PC, it is about once very 5 years, and that is because I want to get a machine that is technologically up to date. Before I got my current PC this past April, I had had my previous computer for about six years. And in all honesty, I really didn't have to get the new PC; my other one was working just fine. I just wanted something with more processing/video power. 

Would you say that Macs remain state of the art for longer than 5 years? At what point in a period of Mac ownership would someone have to say, "Okay, this thing is way too old and cannot handle the new software coming out. I need to get a new one" ?


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## VictorBravo (Dec 30, 2010)

Phil D. said:


> Well, in all honesty I have never heard a MAC buyer express regret or even frustration regarding their purchase. I certainly cannot say the same about PC/Windows users. My son works for Apple, and he has told me that their business model is essentially providing the best possible product, and then effectively charging what it actually cost to develop and produce. No sales or gimmicks - just you get what you pay for. It seems to be working, since MACs have tripled their market share for personal computers over the last 5 years - although admittedly it is still a relatively modest 15% or so.


 
That's because people like me, who have had two Mac lemons and unsatisfactory customer service have gotten tired telling our stories. It's as if we must be very strange people who should be ignored and maybe shunned. . . .

OK, too extreme. But the iBook G4 really should have been able to stay on for more than 40 minutes before losing its mind. And the replacement iBook G4 (after two weeks of visits to the Genius Store, handily located in the most dangerous mall in Western Washington) really should have been able to support a browser (Safari) that one could use to visit State of Washington websites. (Or it should have supported the upgraded Safari, but no, because you could not upgrade the OS). And did I say that there was no way to upgrade anythng despite the express promise of such wonders? (Unless you wanted to replace the motherboard--which had been replaced twice because of bad design-caused overheating). 

But I do say one thing, it always printed great cards. It's on my shelf right now, all alone, awaiting the next card-printing mission.


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## Phil D. (Dec 30, 2010)

Somehow I knew that my statement was bound to bring out the exceptions... Raymond, I'll amend my rhetoric accordingly - I know of "very few" complaints about MACs as compared to PCs.


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## LawrenceU (Dec 30, 2010)

Der Pilger said:


> Would you say that Macs remain state of the art for longer than 5 years? At what point in a period of Mac ownership would someone have to say, "Okay, this thing is way too old and cannot handle the new software coming out. I need to get a new one" ?



I don't know. I got my MacBook when they first came out about five years ago. I maxxed the RAM last year. I just ran across a good deal on RAM and did it. It was running fine without it. I have never had a problem running software, and I run some pretty heavy stuff occasionally. Frankly, it has surprised me in its continuing to handle new software. I never experienced that afte three years with a PC.




VictorBravo said:


> But the iBook G4 really should have been able to stay on for more than 40 minutes before losing its mind.


 My dad had one of these as well. He had trouble with the first one. They were supplied by the university where he taught. Apparently the switch to the '4' processor caused some problems. The switch to Intel seems to have solved that.


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## VictorBravo (Dec 30, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> My dad had one of these as well. He had trouble with the first one. They were supplied by the university where he taught. Apparently the switch to the '4' processor caused some problems. The switch to Intel seems to have solved that.


 
Lawrence, that was exactly the issue. The disappointing bummer for us was the switch to the Intel chip means that the iBook is a dead end and basically unsupported platform. True, it has OS X, but it cannot go beyond version 3.9, which means no upgrades to browsers, no ability to run MS Word, etc.

I have not doubt Macs are wonderful. I probably am milking my bad experience too much (I also came to really despise iTunes too--but that's my personal quirk), I really did like the iBook when we first got it. It was the lack of support and bad customer service that soured me.

Alas, I don't love PCs all that much either, but I do have a 6 year old Toshiba laptop still going strong running XP, and my little Acer netbook is going on three years and it is doing very well. I pushed them both pretty hard and together they were still less expensive than the iBook.

But I've also built my own and ended up with a lemon. At least in that case I could happily tear it all apart and start over.

End of rant. . . . I really don't feel all that strongly about computer brands in general.


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## coramdeo (Dec 30, 2010)

I have three iMacs in my shop all running OS 4.11.9 at least 7 years old) The only problem I ever have is finding someone to help me if some small issue does crop up.....less trouble means less experienced trouble shooters.


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## Michael (Dec 30, 2010)

I've been a Mac owner for about a month now. I can't see myself ever going back. 

For those who would like a Mac for less, consider purchasing a refurbished one. If you buy directly from Apple it will come with the same warranty as if brand new.


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## KMK (Dec 30, 2010)

Here is the reason many put away their PCs in favor of Macs:

1 Cor 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.


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## Andres (Dec 30, 2010)

Well one reason I choose to stick with PC's is because of the stigma that MAC owners are pretentious. Oh wait...did I really just type that in this thread?
I bought a Gateway PC about 4 years ago. I've never had any problems with it. Ever. It wasn't even a fancy one. I think I paid like $600 when Circuit City had a special. I once got a virus about 2 years ago, but that was completely my own fault because I opened a fishy email attachment that upon immediately clicking on knew I shouldn't have. I paid some computer place $30 to remove it. No problems at all. My wife on the other hand had an Apple laptop when I first met her. I told her I refused to use it. It has never worked right since I've known her. It just collects dust and we use our Gateway desktop and occasionally our HP laptop. Both are great, nay, wonderful. I don't understand these people who have PC problems all the time. I think they just need to learn how to use their computer correctly.


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## jawyman (Dec 30, 2010)

I wish I could better articulate my reasons for going Mac. First of all, I probably did between five to six months of research on the differences between the Mac and the PC and found that consumer magazines gave Macs higher ratings as well as Mac owners. Price was something I constantly struggled with as well. After watching the men who owned Macs and observed how they almost never needed to plug their computers in, the speed, and really their lack of sense to upgrade was not there. One brother has used the same laptop for over five-years now with no desire for a newer machine. That was a selling point for me.

Someone else used the car analogy, but they are not far off. When I finally bought my MacBook Pro I had an instant sense of quality. It was like going from a Ford to a Porsche. I liked my Mac so much I ended up buying an iMac for the family and I jettisoned the old PC. All I can say in my case is that I cannot see myself ever going back to a PC. I have now have an iPhone, iPod, iMac, MacBook Pro, and soon my wife and I will both own MacBook Airs.

I would suggest going to your local Apple store and just talk to them. I went in my Apple store before I bought my machine and they spent the better part of an hour explaining things to me knowing I was not going to buy that day. So, for me, the Mac is all about quality. I believe as Pastor Nate and many others do; the Mac is an investment and will ending up being cheaper in the long run. Buying a Mac is good stewardship (in my opinion).


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## Jerusalem Blade (Dec 30, 2010)

I'm using an iBook G4 (1.33 GHz) since 2005; had to replace the harddrive in 2007, no problems since then. Currently running OS 10.5.8, with no problems.

I use MS Office 2008 for Mac, but can't upgrade to Office 2011 till I get a newer model with an Intel chip. True, there is software I can't use till I get an Intel Mac, but here in the Mid-East and for my current purposes it is adequate.

I anticipate returning to New York in 2011 with some money and then I hope to get an 11 in. MacBook Air for traveling, and perhaps a 17 in. MacBook Pro for home, and an iMac for my wife. Never had a virus (save some I picked up from copy stores and their PCs with a flash drive, but Norton caught them right off. They wouldn't have hurt my machine, but I could have sent them on to others).

Operation is simple, and the machine is rugged. When I buy hiking boots, I buy the best, and it saves in the long run. Ditto with technical mountain gear like jackets; I get the best and it lasts a decade or so.

My wife's currently running a Powerbook (with OS 10.3) from around 2000 (only has a 13 GB HD), but she loves it, and wants to keep it. I have to tell her not to get sentimental over an old machine -- she'll love the new one too!

I suppose I could do with a PC if I had to, but it would not be as pleasurable an activity as working on a Mac. I wish you guys the best who can get by on one, but me, I'm a Mac guy, now and (DV) forever.


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## Rich Koster (Dec 30, 2010)

We replaced our old W95 with W98 upgrade desktop with a Mac Mini. It has run flawlessly for almost 4 years. The amount of share/freeware available is also quite impressive. I also get to save $ by not paying for virus shield updates each year.


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## Phil D. (Dec 30, 2010)

Andres said:


> I don't understand these people who have PC problems all the time. I think they just need to learn how to use their computer correctly.



Hmmm... and MAC users are the pretentious ones?..


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## Andres (Dec 30, 2010)

Phil D. said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand these people who have PC problems all the time. I think they just need to learn how to use their computer correctly.
> ...


 
Yes.


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## AThornquist (Dec 30, 2010)

Yes, Mac users are pretentious. I hope to get a Mac as soon as I can afford it.


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## Gord (Dec 30, 2010)

I have been using a Mac Mini for over 3 years now and only have had to do the updates as they came along, including the upgrade to snow leopard, iWork etc as they became available. Not because I needed to, but because I wanted to. The OSX outshines music and digital photography handling by leaps and bounds over what MS claims they have done with W7. The only good thing I found about W7 is that it breathed life back into my 7 year old sony vaio laptop that almost choked to death on XP.

I have yet to wipe the drive clean such as format c:/ and have to do a reinstall, I am still running the original install on my mini, but my previous life in windows, I have had to do at least every 6 months a clean install with a windows based o/s.

Everything I need to do, just works better on OSX. So it's a matter of personal taste as well as $.

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coramdeo said:


> I have three iMacs in my shop all running OS 4.11.9 at least 7 years old) The only problem I ever have is finding someone to help me if some small issue does crop up.....less trouble means less experienced trouble shooters.


 LOL, windows single handedly invented the need for IT.


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## Curt (Dec 30, 2010)

I had a couple of Apple computers. Loved them. I had to switch to a PC when doing my doctoral thesis because I needed software that would do footnotes. Apple was still the Graphics computer. I am now, thankfully, back to Mac: three laptops, two iPods, one iPhone (another in February). There are PC companies with whom I won't trade ecause of faulty products and faultier customer service.


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## 21st Century Calvinist (Dec 30, 2010)

Three months into being a Mac owner. Absolutely love it. Don't want to ever go back. Love the speed, looooong battery life, ease of use, sleek design, compatibility, lack of viruses, Apple customer service. When I switch my Mac on it's ready to go! I ran some updates and a virus scan on my old laptop last week and it took 4 hours! 
Glad to be pretentious Mac owner!


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## littlepeople (Dec 30, 2010)

Windows writes an operating system to run on four thousand different hardware configurations; any given osx version will be written around 6 hardware platforms at a time. That is the essential advantage. I've owned both and had frustrations with both. If I were still doing audio work, I would have a Mac. Using a Mac to browse and check email is simply unnecessary expense. I now run Linux and use virtualbox for any pc/Mac-specific programs


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## Scottish Lass (Dec 30, 2010)

Like another said above, I've only switched out PCs after five years or more. Never had a virus or malware. Desktop runs fine, netbook runs fine. Tim inherited my dad's old Toshiba laptop that must have been eight years old--now, I'll admit it died an ugly death when the screen no longer functioned. But eight years for a laptop previously owned by a smoker and then both owners lugged it over the hill and back on a regular basis is pretty good, in my opinion. 
Macs just don't seem as intuitive to me as they must to other people. See the mac/photo thread we posted for Houchens a while back.


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## Reepicheep (Dec 31, 2010)

Other than speed, safety from viruses, ease of use in general, ease of use with various applications (the photo/video stuff is superb and easy on a MAC), PC's are way better. 

My only regret about my MAC is that I waited WAY too long to finally get it. I will NEVER go back to a PC.


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## Curt (Dec 31, 2010)

C'mon, Tony. Let it out. How do you feel about PCs?


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## Carolyn (Dec 31, 2010)

My husband and I have PCs, laptops and various desktops. My family is all Mac, as is one of our sons. The elephant in the room around these parts is the number of times various Apple products are sent in or hauled off to the Apple store, while our PCs are still running. When we've bought new, we've donated the old PCs to college students, who are still using them. This all "doesn't make me no never-mind." If you buy stuff, stuff breaks. Then stuff gets fixed or you buy new stuff. However, the Mac people in the family are so dang defensive about their product. 

The whole Mac vs. PC thing reminds me of "The Star-bellied Sneetches", a Dr. Seuss story that should be in more personal libraries, at least around our family!


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## Brother John (Dec 31, 2010)

Those of you who have Mac Minis how do yall like them? I have thought that might be the cheapest entry into the Apple desktop world. Will I be able to use my current screen or do you have to buy an Apple screen? Our last three PCs have been free hand me downs so it makes it kinda hard to swallow the Apple price tags!


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## Zenas (Dec 31, 2010)

Got the computer I'm typing on (a Mac) in 2006 and bought the $100 3 year warranty from Apple. Tomorrow, it will be 2011, near five years after I got this computer. My previous computer was an HP which I got in late 2004. By mid 2006, it was dead and HP could have cared less. They had their money. Last year, 2009, my Mac's hard drive died. I paid not one red cent and I got a new, larger hard drive, my memory upgraded, and the newest version of the Apple OS. 

I'll continue to buy Mac.


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## Mushroom (Dec 31, 2010)

I had only owned PC's until 1997 when I got my one and only Mac. It was hilariously expensive, but for me it was a gift, so I took it. Worked great for about a month, then the 3.5 floppy drive went bad. If it had been a PC, I'd have gone to the local computer supply store, bought a drive for $35, installed it, and be done. With the Mac, I had to take it to an authorized Mac repair center. The closest was 70 miles away. When I took it to them they said it would cost $215 to repair. I took the machine and tossed it in my dumpster. Around the same time a business associate had a Mac system installed by his brother, a Mac tech. It was always down, such that he could barely get his taxes done or surf the net. His brother lived in NYC, and could only get down to VA about every other month to fix the system, so he was constantly unable to use his computer to operate his business. Steve Jobs can put on a henley and look pretty avante garde at product rollouts, but that doesn't justify the proprietary nature of Apple's business model to me, especially with such iffy performance. Needless to say, I've only owned PC's since. Ponytails and toe-sandals notwithstanding, I remain unimpressed. My view is that the attraction is cache. I can't use cache to operate a business, even if it has better graphics when working.


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## raekwon (Jan 1, 2011)

Oh man... if my only experience with Macs was in 1997, I'd probably stay away from them as well. There is a world of difference between the Macs of 1997 and the Macs of today. In 1997, Apple was a floundering company with shoddy technology and shoddier leadership. The ship has been righted.


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## dudley (Jan 1, 2011)

raekwon said:


> As an IT professional and a Mac user, I can attest that in many cases, the total cost of ownership (including repair/upkeep) for a Mac often ends up being less than that of a similarly outfitted PC.



I agree ,I had Mac computers and laptop until 3 years ago. I caved in a bought a Dell Laptop Inspiron. I regret my decision. The Mac is superior in every way. there are also no known viruses for Macs and they are inpenatratable. They are reliable , quick. I get so frustrated with the slowness at times of Windows XP and the entire PC format. I wish I had a Mac again!


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jan 1, 2011)

Carolyn said:


> The whole Mac vs. PC thing reminds me of "The Star-bellied Sneetches", a Dr. Seuss story...



Exactly! We all like to think that we have the best, fastest, strongest, smartest, et. al. of the things we posses. Human nature, plain and simple.


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## Scottish Lass (Jan 1, 2011)

dudley said:


> I get so frustrated with the slowness at times of Windows XP



Well, since that's two versions old, that may be part of your problem.


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## raekwon (Jan 1, 2011)

dudley said:


> there are also no known viruses for Macs and they are inpenatratable.



Well, that's not really true. It's just that computers with Windows operating systems are so ubiquitous and that Macs are still (relatively) obscure enough -- no one bothers to make viruses for Macs.


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## jandrusk (Jan 1, 2011)

Apple always excels in quality of product, but yes there prices have always been very expensive. The other problem is that their software is proprietary and because of this you cannot use it on non-apple hardware. I would recommend using Ubuntu for the desktop/laptop hardware. There have been a number of MAC fanboys that have migrated to Ubuntu. Check out - System76 where you can buy Ubuntu systems directly. You can also check out Essentials, 2006 edition [dive into mark] for a write-up from a former Apple user with a list of comparable software.


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## BlackCalvinist (Jan 2, 2011)

For those who still wonder about 'why Mac ? My PC has been just fine.'

Think about it from this angle: Remember when you were not a calvinist and you heard about it and thought "My current church and theology are just fine. I don't need all that Calvinistic stuff. All that extra theology and theological talk is unnecessary."..... 

Same thing.  Kinda. 

Mac owner since 1994. Have done tech support on/built PCs. Never moving to PC as my primary platform. Ever.

In fact, just spent $1000 on a new Mac for my wife for Christmas. 

If price is your issue, MacAuthority | The Southeast's Largest Apple Specialist. Good people. Free shipping out of state.

Macs typically will outlast and outwork their PC counterparts.

Macs vs PCs - Education, Business, Anyone for more information on 'total cost of ownership'. You may also want to include 'total hours of productivity' in there when discussing mac vs PC.


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## Jeffriesw (Jan 2, 2011)

21st Century Calvinist said:


> Three months into being a Mac owner. Absolutely love it. Don't want to ever go back. Love the speed, looooong battery life, ease of use, sleek design, compatibility, lack of viruses, Apple customer service. When I switch my Mac on it's ready to go! I ran some updates and a virus scan on my old laptop last week and it took 4 hours!
> Glad to be pretentious Mac owner!


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## raekwon (Jan 2, 2011)

FYI - I have two Macs and actually just got a netbook PC for Christmas. I kinda missed the PC world.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jan 2, 2011)

Closed for the Sabbath.


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