# How does one support a family in seminary



## T.A.G.

Man, I am having the hardest time figuring this out. I thought maybe real estate was a good idea to get me through seminary but I failed my real estate test (took two months to take and 400 bucks). Seminary has weird hours often and I am not sure what to do, I need to come up with something asap. The school has jobs some times but they pay like 7 an hr. I have a wife and who knows when God will grant us a child...any ideas??? what did you do?


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## Notthemama1984

I have heard people say that FedEx and UPS make good seminary jobs.


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## Damon Rambo

The best Seminary jobs are ministry positions. Usually the seminary has listings of local churches that need associate pastors, youth pastors, bi-vocational pastors, etc.


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## Scottish Lass

We didn't have Grace yet, so I taught full-time, and we both tutored after school.


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## Kim G

Chaplainintraining said:


> I have heard people say that FedEx and UPS make good seminary jobs.


 
I know a number of people who worked those jobs while in seminary, my pastor included.

My husband works at a call center (gets paid hourly, not by commission) and they are open 24/7. He knows a lot of people there who work second or third shift and are going to seminary. Perhaps you could get a job someplace like that.

Also, you don't want to do real estate. I worked in a RE office on and off for ten years, and you don't make any money unless it's your full-time job and you sink a lot of money into cards, advertising, extended education, etc. (At least at the two offices I worked in.) In this market, real estate agents are dropping like flies. There are already too many of them licensed. Just in our city, we have over 1500 agents who have never made a sale.


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## smhbbag

PM me if you want to know more about UPS in Raleigh. We have a _lot_ of Southeastern folks at the hub, and two PB members who work there.

I'd also second the recommendation to look for local churches who need ministry positions filled. 

How long do you expect to be in seminary? If it's part-time for 3-6 more years, you may want something different than if you are devoted to full-time studies, and getting done ASAP.


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## Bill The Baptist

Food stamps anyone? Just kidding I am right there with you. I spent 8 hours outside today working with hazardous waste. It probably took a year off my life, but it paid $20 an hour so I guess its a fair trade.


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## StrictBaptist

Why about online seminarys? I know a few good pastors who went to seminary online

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## Notthemama1984

StrictBaptist said:


> Why about online seminarys? I know a few good pastors who went to seminary online



In my experience good pastors who come from online seminaries are the exception.


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## Whitefield

GI Bill & student pastorate.


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## reformedminister

Been there! Pray to God, and be not only importune but particular. He will take care of you.


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## Ivan

Downsized.


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## StrictBaptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why about online seminarys? I know a few good pastors who went to seminary online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience good pastors who come from online seminaries are the exception.
Click to expand...

 
I always hear that but in my research, homeschooled kids are generally smarter than those that attend public schools. Why would this change with college? Some of the smartest pastors I have ever met, did most of their seminary both master and doctorate online...

I know DTS online is all videos, so its like being there. I was also told that if you are logged on during the actual time of class, you can participate.

If I go to seminary I would have to do it online myself, because of family and financial obligations

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## Rev. Todd Ruddell

Stretch out your seminary training, and develop another calling. In this way you will always have a skill to fall back on should your theology run counter to your congregation. Further, you will have "lived a life" before entering into the Pastorate. By all means intern if you can, but remember, many a pastor has been ill affected by congregational displeasure especially in times of reformation sermons from the pulpit. Having lived a life, managed a family, held down a skilled profession--all these things tend to temper a man, making him stronger for the ministry. I believe that one of the worst things we can do to a man is to take him from college to seminary to the pastorate apart from this kind of experience. 

Just my 2 cents.


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## LawrenceU

A hearty, 'Amen', to Todd's post!


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## kvanlaan

I'll second that 'amen' - our last 'student' preacher was a 50 year old man who had worked in construction for 30 years, had a Down Syndrome daughter, and his wife had breast cancer. These various experiences lent him wisdom that are absent in a fresh-out-of-college seminarian. Quite a guy.


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## Notthemama1984

StrictBaptist said:


> know DTS online is all videos, so its like being there. I was also told that if you are logged on during the actual time of class, you can participate.



You would be wrong about the second half and you cannot complete a full degree online with DTS. 

You are correct about homeschooled kids. The difference is that most online seminarians were not homeschooled. They do not have the same type of upbringing. 

I also would say that grade school curriculum is much easier than theology. Most of the subjects are black and white. The answers are straightforward and you are spitting out facts. With theology you have to think through concepts. It is not black and white. You now have to answer the great question of "why?" This forces you to think much differently and much harder. Most people are going to need someone to bounce ideas, thoughts, and concepts off of. The professor fills this role in seminary. 

That being said there are always exceptions. I heard once (I can't verify it, but wouldn't be surprised if it was true) that Dr. Ferguson would show up to the first day of his classes, learn what the assignments were for the course, go home do all the reading and assignments, get an A, and never go to class again. He has the ability to work through things that most do not have.

Lastly remember that the Scriptures say that iron sharpens iron. It does not say that iron sharpens itself. Doing seminary online is going solo. I would know. I completed my undergrad at Liberty online and have taken 30 hrs online at DTS. You do not have access to profs at all. You can send an email asking a question and you are lucky if you get a response within a week.


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## Skyler

StrictBaptist said:


> I always hear that but in my research, homeschooled kids are generally smarter than those that attend public schools. Why would this change with college?



Most homeschooled kids are being taught by their parents, not trying to teach themselves.


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## StrictBaptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> know DTS online is all videos, so its like being there. I was also told that if you are logged on during the actual time of class, you can participate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would be wrong about the second half and you cannot complete a full degree online with DTS.
> 
> You are correct about homeschooled kids. The difference is that most online seminarians were not homeschooled. They do not have the same type of upbringing.
> 
> I also would say that grade school curriculum is much easier than theology. Most of the subjects are black and white. The answers are straightforward and you are spitting out facts. With theology you have to think through concepts. It is not black and white. You now have to answer the great question of "why?" This forces you to think much differently and much harder. Most people are going to need someone to bounce ideas, thoughts, and concepts off of. The professor fills this role in seminary.
> 
> That being said there are always exceptions. I heard once (I can't verify it, but wouldn't be surprised if it was true) that Dr. Ferguson would show up to the first day of his classes, learn what the assignments were for the course, go home do all the reading and assignments, get an A, and never go to class again. He has the ability to work through things that most do not have.
> 
> Lastly remember that the Scriptures say that iron sharpens iron. It does not say that iron sharpens itself. Doing seminary online is going solo. I would know. I completed my undergrad at Liberty online and have taken 30 hrs online at DTS. You do not have access to profs at all. You can send an email asking a question and you are lucky if you get a response within a week.
Click to expand...

 

Thanks for the clarification. I see your point on the professor being there, but if if I already have a pastor or Elders to use to bounce ideas off of, then that may work. Of course I could be the exception. I am currently at Luther Rice, but transferring to liberty to complete my B.S in Religion.
However I homeschooled, and really I have no problem with online classes right now, and have the grades to prove it.

I went to a brick and mortar school for two semesters, and really I haven't seen much differance from my standpoint.
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## StrictBaptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> know DTS online is all videos, so its like being there. I was also told that if you are logged on during the actual time of class, you can participate.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You would be wrong about the second half and you cannot complete a full degree online with DTS.
> 
> You are correct about homeschooled kids. The difference is that most online seminarians were not homeschooled. They do not have the same type of upbringing.
> 
> I also would say that grade school curriculum is much easier than theology. Most of the subjects are black and white. The answers are straightforward and you are spitting out facts. With theology you have to think through concepts. It is not black and white. You now have to answer the great question of "why?" This forces you to think much differently and much harder. Most people are going to need someone to bounce ideas, thoughts, and concepts off of. The professor fills this role in seminary.
> 
> That being said there are always exceptions. I heard once (I can't verify it, but wouldn't be surprised if it was true) that Dr. Ferguson would show up to the first day of his classes, learn what the assignments were for the course, go home do all the reading and assignments, get an A, and never go to class again. He has the ability to work through things that most do not have.
> 
> Lastly remember that the Scriptures say that iron sharpens iron. It does not say that iron sharpens itself. Doing seminary online is going solo. I would know. I completed my undergrad at Liberty online and have taken 30 hrs online at DTS. You do not have access to profs at all. You can send an email asking a question and you are lucky if you get a response within a week.
Click to expand...

 

Also what made you choose DTS instead of continuing seminary at Liberty???

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## Notthemama1984

I chose DTS because I felt the level of education at Liberty seminary online is mediocre. Numerous chaplains are getting their Mdiv online and I have not been impressed with them. Now some guys who were taking Liberty classes on campus and were pretty good.

DTS classes are harder, require more work, and there are more classes to take. You can't avoid the languages either. 



StrictBaptist said:


> However I homeschooled, and really I have no problem with online classes right now, and have the grades to prove it.



This really doesn't prove anything except that you can pass the classes. I took the Liberty classes. They were beyond easy.


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## StrictBaptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> I chose DTS because I felt the level of education at Liberty seminary online is mediocre. Numerous chaplains are getting their Mdiv online and I have not been impressed with them. Now some guys who were taking Liberty classes on campus and were pretty good.
> 
> DTS classes are harder, require more work, and there are more classes to take. You can't avoid the languages either.
> 
> 
> 
> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> However I homeschooled, and really I have no problem with online classes right now, and have the grades to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This really doesn't prove anything except that you can pass the classes. I took the Liberty classes. They were beyond easy.
Click to expand...

 
Exactly. I can pass the classes at a brick and mortar school just as well. in my opinion the online classes I have taken were on par with the ones I took at the school. Matter of fact, the online classes were in my opinion a bit more challenging, which made me think more. 

I will have to look at RTS or DTS when and if I end up going to seminary

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## Edward

StrictBaptist said:


> I will have to look at RTS or DTS when and if I end up going to seminary



If you are reformed, why would you put DTS on your list?


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## Notthemama1984

He's baptist.


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## StrictBaptist

Edward said:


> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> I will have to look at RTS or DTS when and if I end up going to seminary
> 
> 
> 
> 
> If you are reformed, why would you put DTS on your list?
Click to expand...

 

Yeah since I am baptist , I am leaning more towards RTS though. But Al Mohler is reformed, and he's head of Southern Baptist seminary...

I may be baptist, but I am Reformed:0)
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## Notthemama1984

Is Mohler Reformed? I know he is a five pointer, but was not sure that he was covenantal.


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## Edward

StrictBaptist said:


> But Al Mohler is reformed, and he's head of Southern Baptist seminary...



I would think that Southern would have to be high on the list for a Baptist. If a reformed person goes to DTS, they should understand that it might close some doors, and should be prepared to answer the 'why'.


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## Notthemama1984

Edward said:


> If a reformed person goes to DTS, they should understand that it might close some doors, and should be prepared to answer the 'why'.



I agree wholeheartedly with this remark.


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## Damon Rambo

Chaplainintraining said:


> I chose DTS because I felt the level of education at Liberty seminary online is mediocre. Numerous chaplains are getting their Mdiv online and I have not been impressed with them. Now some guys who were taking Liberty classes on campus and were pretty good.
> 
> DTS classes are harder, require more work, and there are more classes to take. You can't avoid the languages either.
> 
> 
> 
> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> However I homeschooled, and really I have no problem with online classes right now, and have the grades to prove it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This really doesn't prove anything except that you can pass the classes. I took the Liberty classes. They were beyond easy.
Click to expand...

 
I am really curious about when and what you took at Liberty. I have had adjunct professors from DTS and the Masters Seminary, and both have stated the Syllabi for those classes were nearly identical with their own schools. I have taken classes at four different Seminaries; Liberty is comparable to any of them. 

I have a perfect 4.0 GPA at both NOBTS, and Liberty. I have not found Liberty to be easy compared to NOBTS; in fact, Liberty requires more coursework, and is much stricter on exams, research papers, etc. I ask you what classes you have taken at Liberty, because there are about 4 classes that are required for the M. Div., that are much easier than the others...but this is true at any Seminary.

Also, Liberty Online has more assignments than the same residential classes... so, again, not sure how you can say the Online is easier, when it requires more work. Unless you think sitting around with a bunch of guys talking about sports in a B & M classroom makes seminary harder...

---------- Post added at 10:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:25 PM ----------

Just a quick comparison. I know no one here (I do not think) would say that Southern was "easy." Yet, compare Southern's syllabi to Liberty's for the same class. In MOST cases, the Liberty class requires more reading, and more assignments. An example:

*From Southern's "History of Christian Missions"*

Texts
J. Mark Terry, Evangelism: A Concise History
Ruth Tucker, From Jerusalem To Irian Jaya

Course Requirements
1. Research Paper: Each student will write a research paper on a leading figure or important movement in the history of Christian missions. The professor or Garret Fellow must approve the topic. The paper should be 10 to 15 pages typed/double spaced and should conform to the seminary style guide. Selected students may present their findings to the class.
2. Text readings as assigned. Students will be responsible to read the appropriate sections of Terry and Tucker prior to class consideration.
3. View the video “The Gods are Dead” on reserve in the library prior to discussion of West Africa.
4. Attendance at all class sessions.
*
From the same class at Liberty*

REQUIRED RESOURCE PURCHASES
Joffé, Roland. The Mission (DVD). Critics Choice Video, 1986. ASIN: B00003CXBH.
Klauber, Martin I., and Scott M. Manestch, eds. The Great Commission: Evangelicals and the History of World Missions. Nashville, TN: Broadman & Holman Publishing Group, 2008. ISBN: 978-0-8054-4300-4.
Neill, Stephen, and Owen Chadwick. History of Christian Missions. 2d ed. London: Penguin Books, Inc., 1991. ISBN: 978-0-14-013763-7.
Tucker, Ruth. From Jerusalem to Irian Jaya: A Biographical History of Christian Missions. 2d ed. Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2004. ISBN: 978-0-310-23937-6.

COURSE REQUIREMENTS AND ASSIGNMENTS
A. Textbook readings, videos, websites, and online articles
B. Discussion Board forums (5)
In Modules 2–6, students will answer questions in Discussion Board forums based on each of these week’s readings. Students should post a thread by Friday of the pertinent modules that is an essay of 400–500 words. Each thread should also demonstrate a grasp of each week’s reading, thoroughly respond to the question, and stand up to scrutiny. Students should reply to one classmate’s post in a 100–200-word response by Sunday of the pertinent modules.
C. Review of “The Mission”
After viewing “The Mission” DVD, students will write a 1000-word (4-page) review of the film. Incorporating the readings in the course, the review should focus on 2–3 main themes relating to missions history. This assignment is due in Module/Week 3.
D. Research Paper
Students will write a 4000–4500-word (14–16 page) paper in Turabian style devoted to a theme in missions history. In the Discussion Board Forum 4 (Module 5), students will submit a topic, a clear thesis statement, and a minimum of six (6) scholarly sources. The research paper is due in Module/Week 7.
E. Reading Quizzes (4)
At the end of Modules 2, 4, 6, and 8, students will take a reading quiz based on the assigned reading for the two most recent modules.


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## Notthemama1984

Syllabi do not really prove anything. Two courses can require a 10 page paper, but one course could require a much higher quality of paper. The syllabi makes it look like they are on the same level, but in reality one could be a mickey mouse course and the other extremely difficult. 

I took my undergrad at Liberty. 

PS. Congrats on your 4.0


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## StrictBaptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> Syllabi do not really prove anything. Two courses can require a 10 page paper, but one course could require a much higher quality of paper. The syllabi makes it look like they are on the same level, but in reality one could be a mickey mouse course and the other extremely difficult.
> 
> I took my undergrad at Liberty.
> 
> PS. Congrats on your 4.0



I agree with you, but what makes a online class paper easier? Because it is online? I took a Echsatology class twice, once at brick and mortar and once online. in my opinion the online class required almost twice as much work, and the guidelines for the paper were stricter. Although I did better in the brick and mortar class, I learned more through the Professor online.

I think it vcomes


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## Notthemama1984

Online classes tend to be easier because too often the profs are loaded with numerous online classes. They have way too much to grade to give it a thorough look over.

---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------

I am not advocating that DTS is the hardest. In many ways it has been pretty easy (except the language courses). All I am saying is that Liberty online for undergrad was super easy and every Liberty Online MDiv chaplain has been seriously lacking.


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## Bill The Baptist

Chaplainintraining said:


> Online classes tend to be easier because too often the profs are loaded with numerous online classes. They have way too much to grade to give it a thorough look over.



I also went to Liberty Online for undergrad. You are correct that as a general rule it is easier than a traditional school mainly because all of the tests are essentially open book. As for the papers, it really depends on the professor. I had some that were very easy graders and others who were very difficult. One thing I will say about Liberty is that all assignments are graded by the actual professor and not a graduate assistant like so many other schools. I am pasting below the actual instructions that one professor at Liberty gave for a research paper just to show that not all professors at LU are easy.


Paper # 2 – Instructions: A Special Announcement
Paper # 2 - Instructions: A Special Announcement 



Dear Friends:

Paper # 2 will be due on Friday May 14, 2010 





I preferred to email you the instructions for Paper # 2 now because this is the biggest challenge throughout the course & you will do yourself a favor if you carefully read & follow these instructions. 



* Daniel 70-Week Prophecy - Important Matters * 





The Seventy Weeks of Daniel 9:24-27 is a huge challenge in the domain of prophecy and has a number of routes to go about. Therefore, the following problems pertain to this passage & are provided for you to help you focus your research on only one of them … yes, as always only one . So, these narrowed-down, finely tuned problems are meant to guide your research wisely on such a difficult passage. In effect, your research paper will target only one problem … again, only one problem of the following: 



1- NO paper will be written on whether these weeks are week-days or week-years. This problem has been resolved long ago & you do not need to waste your time working on it. (However, reading about it will help your education). In effect, no paper on this topic will be accepted . 



Problem - 1: Is the book of Daniel a 6 th c. or 2 nd c. BC product? What are the theological consequences of each position? 



Problem - 2: Is the 70 Weeks passage Christological or non-Christological? What are the theological consequences of each position? 



Problem - 3: Are those 490 years literal or symbolic? Fully discuss each approach & its premises & critique. 



Problem - 4: When is the starting point of the first 69 weeks? When is the end? What is this command referred to in 9:25? 



Problem - 5: What are the different possible identities of this " he " of 9:27 and on what ground each argument is built? 





Problem - 6: How can these two triplets in 9:24 help us interpret the passage? 





Problem - 7: What are the three approaches of interpretation of this passage? (Discuss each in full!) 





Problem - 8: Is there a "Gap Theory" in this passage? Where is it? Why? What are the historical & theological consequences of its absence or existence? 



Please, read the passage first & pray about it because this is quite challenging. 



Technical Matters 



1- Thesis Statement : this paper is different from the first one. While in the first every one discussed the same topic, this time, every one of you will be working on a different problem/topic out of the listed eight (above). Evidently, I will need to know upfront what problem you are tackling in your paper. So, it is mandatory that the very first thing you write in your paper on page # 1 is the Thesis Statement placed at the very top of the page & in bold. I need it to look physically on the paper & visually before my eyes just like this: 



My Thesis Statement : In this paper I am arguing for xxxxxx OR arguing against xxxxxx 





These xxxx should follow the exact verbatim of the problem that you have already chosen as expressed above. This is a very crucial step for you to learn & know how to do. So, if the required Thesis Statement is missing from your paper, this will take 10 points off. Why? Because it is not the responsibility of your reader to figure out what you are trying to say, defend, or debunk. It is solely your responsibility. You are responsible of making yourself clear & preparing the way before your reader . 





2- The background Story : (all these elements--the end of captivity … 70 years … Daniel prayed … Angel appeared … etc.) are well known to all of us. Re-iterating this story is a waste of time & space, and is considered as another way of microwaving a paper. Please, do not go this way! Cut to the chase right away … this is the ground rule for this paper. 



3- Formatting your Paper : by now, you should have learned how to format & outline a paper following the template of paper # 1. Each one of these eight problems is argumentative and has more than one view, and all of these views are conflicting with each other, whereas each has its premises , weaknesses & strengths . So, you now know what to do & what is expected. As a reminder, avoid these "walls of writing"! 



In application, after you state your "Thesis Statement" and introduce the problem, move onto presenting the various conflicting views / stands, and then follow as instructed previously (outline your paper into premises , weaknesses , strengths , and remember to use numerals-Roman, Arabic, and English, etc.). 



By now, you should also have learned how to breakdown your paper into major sections, major sections into paragraphs, and put titles & subtitles in bold. Once again-no walls of writing! You certainly do not want to submit walls and walls of words …writing, writing, and writing, in what you call an "essay." No! This is not an essay. This is a paper. This is not an exegetical paper either . 



4- Biblical Quotation : as we agreed before, do not put these verses (Dan 9: 24-27) in your paper. As I mentioned earlier, this is a form of cheating . So, please, take them out! Just put the reference (Dan 9: xx). In addition, all biblical references, e.g., (Dan 9:27) should be between parentheses & stay up in the text, not in the footnotes. Also, there is no need to mention the Biblical version you are using (whether NIV or else). This is needed only when we are doing a linguistic study. So, please, refrain from these matters. 



5- Footnotes : all papers should adopt footnotes, not endnotes or the parentheses of the APA style. This is one more of the " Thou Shall Not!" 



6- Page Limit : the page-limit for this paper is at least 8 - 10 pages (apart from your bibliography & the title page [if the latter is submitted]). All academic papers should be in Times New Romans, font size 12, double space, paginated, and with only one inch L & R margins. 



7- Resources: please, remember that you have to use at least three resources (books, commentaries and/or articles). Please, notice that Study Bibles (e.g., Scofield Study Bible , etc.) & some websites like Wikipedia are non-academic resources . So, these do not count as resources. 



8- Using the Bible: i) The Bible (in whatever version/translation) is not considered as one of the minimum three research resources required for your paper. Why? Because it is your fundamental, the one & the only source. 
ii) References to the utilized Biblical verses should stay up in the text & not in a footnote (e.g., Rev 20:1) in demonstrating respect for the biblical text. 



9- Just in case … one more time … NO papers will be accepted on whether these weeks are week-days or week-years. This issue has been resolved long ago & it is now a "given" that these are 490 years . Do not even waste time trying to explain or emphasize something obvious to all . 



10- Please, remember … remember … remember … you are to research & discuss in your paper only one problem of the listed eight. If two problems are found, then 50% of the grade is gone. If more than two problems are discussed, then a zero will be assigned. I have to say this as loud as it gets because despite of all these warnings, some still go the wrong way. 



Finally, be encouraged to do your best. This should be the end of your struggle. 



Best Wishes 

Dr. Ihab Griess


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## Damon Rambo

Chaplainintraining said:


> Online classes tend to be easier because too often the profs are loaded with numerous online classes. They have way too much to grade to give it a thorough look over.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 11:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:27 PM ----------
> 
> I am not advocating that DTS is the hardest. In many ways it has been pretty easy (except the language courses). All I am saying is that Liberty online for undergrad was super easy and every Liberty Online MDiv chaplain has been seriously lacking.


 
Your not actually comparing undergrad work to graduate level, are you? A huge number of undergrad classes, even in "good" B & M schools, don't even require writing assignments...certainly not at any strict level. 

Liberty is EXTREMELY strict on paper requirements, especially in the online classes. My papers are marked up, tenuous argumentation is refuted, and even very slight footnote formatting is marked off on. I have had more than one paper returned where the professor had written more on my paper than I had.

Facts are facts. The requirements at Liberty, in the Grad department, are up to par with other ATS accredited and SACS accredited seminaries/schools. I have met horrible pastors from all kinds of seminaries (especially DTS. A DTS graduate near us, actually had his church put in a huge hand pump well before Y2K, for those who might be "left behind"....). The Quality of the Pastor is determined by the Holy Spirit, and the person...


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## Notthemama1984

Damon Rambo said:


> The Quality of the Pastor is determined by the Holy Spirit, and the person



I am not arguing about the quality of the pastor. I am arguing for the difficulty of online vs. B&M courses.

You can throw DTS in my face all you want, but I don't really care. I am not placing DTS on some high pedestal thinking it is the pinnacle of education. It is a decent school that gives a decent education. I go there because it is in driving distance, not really because I wanted to. 

Also all I am saying is that when the Chief of Chaplains Office goes through hundreds of seminarians every year and begins to notice the quality of Liberty online is consistently lower (pastorally speaking) than other seminaries to the point that the Office will consistently choose other chaplains who did not go to Liberty online, this should say something. 

Again there are always exceptions and everyone thinks they are that exception.


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## Bill The Baptist

While school choice is certainly important, it is far less important than the desire on the part of a man to truly fulfill God's calling in his life. You will learn far more about theology from reading the Word of God than by listening to a professor, regardless of his theological stance or the number of letters after his name. Those who put their whole heart and soul into studying the bible, the classics of theology, AND their assigned schoolwork, those will make great pastors regardless of the school they graduated from.


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## Damon Rambo

Chaplainintraining said:


> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> 
> The Quality of the Pastor is determined by the Holy Spirit, and the person
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I am not arguing about the quality of the pastor. I am arguing for the difficulty of online vs. B&M courses.
> 
> You can throw DTS in my face all you want, but I don't really care. I am not placing DTS on some high pedestal thinking it is the pinnacle of education. It is a decent school that gives a decent education. I go there because it is in driving distance, not really because I wanted to.
> 
> Also all I am saying is that when the Chief of Chaplains Office goes through hundreds of seminarians every year and begins to notice the quality of Liberty online is consistently lower (pastorally speaking) than other seminaries to the point that the Office will consistently choose other chaplains who did not go to Liberty online, this should say something.
> 
> Again there are always exceptions and everyone thinks they are that exception.
Click to expand...

 
Again, facts are facts. Online students consistently score higher, and retain more information than B & M. This is what the preponderance of evidence shows. A person's opinion (as in "that person just isn't as good as the other") is entirely subjective. I will tell you right now, that my idea of a good pastor, and the "Willow creek" baptist church's idea of a "good pastor" are going to be two entirely different things.

In all honesty, (not knowing how the Chaplaincy system works), there are other huge factors that could be at play here. First, Liberty offers a "Chaplaincy" degree, that is not offered by other seminaries, which is 15 to 20 hours less than degrees offered by other seminaries. Thus the difference could be in the amount, rather than the quality, of the work.

Second, Liberty is extremely fundamentalist. Not something that mixes well with a position in which one has to minister to peoples of "other" faiths. Having only known one military chaplain, personally, my own knowledge of the position is very limited. However, from this individual it is my understanding that a certain amount of ecumenism is expected. This would not play well with a Liberty grad.

In any case, the actual scientifically quantifiable data (instead of "ol Jim just ain't as good"...), says that Online instruction is superior. I agree. I think Online instruction, combined with apprenticeship at one's home church, is the optimum model for seminary education. 

But, this is not really the topic of this thread, is it?


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## Grillsy

This online study versus brick and mortar study is not helping to answer Tyler's question. It is quite clear he is studying in a traditional on-campus setting and needs to know about employment.


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## Bill The Baptist

Grillsy said:


> This online study versus brick and mortar study is not helping to answer Tyler's question. It is quite clear he is studying in a traditional on-campus setting and needs to know about employment.



We have definitely gone  on this one. The best jobs for students tend to be ones where you can work in the evenings because then you have your days free for school. I would recommend either waiting tables or delivering pizza. Both of these jobs are relatively easy to get and can pay surprisingly well. Delivering pizza is easier, but only do that if you have a small car that gets good mileage because you have pay for your own gas


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## Siberian

Chaplainintraining said:


> StrictBaptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> Why about online seminarys? I know a few good pastors who went to seminary online
> 
> 
> 
> 
> In my experience good pastors who come from online seminaries are the exception.
Click to expand...

 

Ouch! I am a pastor and I did my M.Div. fully online. I don't know whether I am the exception or the rule.


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