# Webcast Debate on Calvinism_James White vs. Michael Brown



## Kiffin (Mar 25, 2010)

Don't Forget: Dividing Line Debate with Michael Brown at 10am PDT, 1pm EDT

In 20 minutes!

click on James white
Alpha and Omega Ministries, The Christian Apologetics Ministry of James R. White


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## jason d (Mar 25, 2010)

Just started... listening now:

Listen here: Alpha and Omega Ministries, The Christian Apologetics Ministry of James R. White

Should be good, here is a description:

For those interested, we will be covering three texts of Scripture on Thursday: John 6, Romans 8/9, and Ephesians 1. Each will have 8 minutes to provide their exegesis of the text; then we will have four minutes of cross-ex each, then three minute conclusions before moving on to the next text. I know, not a lot of time, but that still covers 90 full minutes (we will not be taking any breaks at all). 
The following Thursday we will repeat the process, but this time covering Michael's chosen texts, Luke 13:34-35 (Deut 5:28-29) Ezek 18:21-32 (Jer 3:19-20; Ezek 22:30-31) I John 2:1-2 (2 Pet 2:1). 
Remember, to make room for Michael's program (which cannot, like the DL, be moved around at will), we will be starting at 10am our time (1pm EDT).


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## LeeD (Mar 25, 2010)

Looking forward to this.


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## Kiffin (Mar 25, 2010)

Ah man! I gotta go and bring my car in for a check up...I'll listen to the rest on the podcast.

Dr. Brown is probably the best Arminian I've heard..


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## LeeD (Mar 25, 2010)

Where can you download this and listen now?


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## MLCOPE2 (Mar 25, 2010)

LeeD said:


> Where can you download this and listen now?


 
subscribe to the podcast and you can listen to it anytime.


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## Skyler (Mar 25, 2010)

It should be up on the AOMin podcast. Go to AOMin.org and click "Webcast".


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## MLCOPE2 (Mar 25, 2010)

Skyler said:


> It should be up on the AOMin podcast. Go to AOMin.org and click "Webcast".


 
The AOM site is only useful for listening live. If you want to listen after the fact you have to subscribe via itunes or my yahoo.


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## Skyler (Mar 25, 2010)

MLCOPE2 said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > It should be up on the AOMin podcast. Go to AOMin.org and click "Webcast".
> ...


 
It's also useful for subscribing to the podcast.


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## Kiffin (Mar 25, 2010)

http://www.aomin.org/podcasts/20100325.mp3


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## Marrow Man (Mar 26, 2010)

Links to the shows are made available for download at the Alpha and Omega Ministries, The Christian Apologetics Ministry of James R. White website.


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 26, 2010)

It was a good, but frustrating, debate. Michael Brown jumps all over Scripture and calls it exegesis. Hermeneutics has been described as a spiral where you move from the words in the text to the syntax of the text to the context of the pericope to the context of a Chapter to the context of a book to the Biblical Theological context and then to the Systematic Theological context. The systematic theological context can then inform the individual parts of a book and this continues in a refining process where the logic of the whole is derived from the exegesis of the individual parts and the individual parts are connected by the logic of the whole.

Now, this is simplistic, but what many don't notice is that Michael was not engaged in actual exegesis today. He was moving from his Systematic and Biblical theological understanding and moving down into the immediate context to destroy immediate exegetical context.

In other words, he could not demonstrate, even once, an ability to step through a passage and how the words and sentences and paragraphs built outward into an understanding that could later be tied together into a Biblical and Systematic Theology that supported his view. I'm convinced this cannot be done with Arminianism. 

After all, we can find many contexts that clearly support the idea that men are commanded to faith and belief and to choose. That is never the issue. What that proves is that God commands men to obey and that God commands belief and that God will save all who have faith. What none of those passages note, however, is that man has an innate capacity to believe.

Consequently, a proper Systematic and Biblical exegetical approach would be to gather the Scriptural data that talks about whether or not man possesses the ability within his fallen character and then put together those ideas from data in other portions of Scripture that speak to men's responsibility to believe.

This he never does. In fact, he only marshalled texts outside the context where inability is established and conflated responsibility to believe with ability to believe.

In the end, I'm sad to say that Michael Brown's conception of the Gospel is really no Gospel at all in my estimation. The very glory of the Gospel that Paul marvels that the Galatians loses is that our sanctification is as definitive as our justification due to our union with Christ. His view of preservation (articulated variously today) is that, as long as I'm willing to be kept, that Christ will keep me. He also made statements repeatedly to the effect that God is a victim to evil just as much as we are except that He's better at making lemonade from lemons than we are.

Reactions: Love 1


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## LeeD (Mar 26, 2010)

Well put brother. I really wish that at least one of the texts they would have worked through would have focused on man's inability, depravity, or being dead in sin. I felt like they went round and round to no avail in a lot of ways and due to this there simply wasn't enough time for real specifics.


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## Semper Fidelis (Mar 26, 2010)

LeeD said:


> Well put brother. I really wish that at least one of the texts they would have worked through would have focused on man's inability, depravity, or being dead in sin. I felt like they went round and round to no avail in a lot of ways and due to this there simply wasn't enough time for real specifics.


 
Well, I think John 6 clearly did speak to ability but, as noted, Michael had a way around it. It doesn't take a great deal of training in Hermeneutics to see what Michael is doing but it is not exegesis of the text. His was a taking of hermeneutical conclusions and a marshaling of texts to support an already arrived at conclusion.


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## dudley (Mar 26, 2010)

I went to the Alpha and Omega website and I plan to listen to the debate on Calvinism on April 1st. I consider myself a Calvinist Presbyterian and I am desireous of learning as much and more about Calvinism. Thank you for this post. I also love the following statement on their faith page. "We believe that God, in His sovereign grace and mercy, regenerates sinful men by the power of the Holy Spirit, not by any action of their own, bringing them to new life. God grants to them the gifts of faith and repentance, which they then exercise by believing in Christ and turning from their sins in love for God. As a result of this faith, based upon the sacrifice of the Lord Jesus Christ, God justifies or makes righteous the one who believes. God's gift of faith, and the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in the lives of the elect, results in good works. These good works flow from true, saving faith; they are a necessary result of faith, but are not to be considered necessary to the gaining of justification, which is by God's grace through faith alone, so that no man can boast." I love the Protestant doctrine of Justification, it is why I am a Protestant. This states it so eloquently.


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