# Worshipping the Holy Spirit ???



## Mayflower (Dec 19, 2005)

Today in our service we sang : " ......Holy Spirit i adore you lay my life before you,..........

I wrote a letter to the elders, with the concern that i hath with this song, where in the scripture do we read that the Lord Jesus Christ or the apostles are worshipping the Holy Spirit ? I can't find it, so we must not do it.

I hope to hear other thoughs about the issue ? Or iam wrong ?


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 19, 2005)

That song, and your church leadership, were simply reflecting Christian belief encapsulated since the time of Nicea. The Nicean creed (in part) says:


> ...And I believe in the Holy Ghost the Lord, and Giver of Life,
> who proceedeth from the Father [and the Son]; *who with the Father and the Son together is worshipped and glorified*...



So, I'd quickly destroy that letter or, if you've already sent it on its way, contact the elders to nullify the contents before it reaches them.


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## bradofshaw (Dec 19, 2005)

How is the Holy Spirit any less God, and therefore any less worthy of being praised? 

John 4:24, "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

Did the Israelite's worship Jesus in the OT? Well, they never heard his name, so how could they? Did they not worship the One True God? If God is One (Hear Oh, Israel, the Lord our God is One God), then how can you separate the worship of Jesus and the Father from the worship of the Spirit? Did they not worship all three persons, weather they named them or not. Remember, we break down the trinity for analytic purposes, but God is still one God!

Has the Spirit not done wonderous things that we should not sing praises to Him? Far be it, it is the work of the Spirit first that allows us to praise God in the first place!! So then should it not be fitting to address the work of God as done by His Holy Spirit? 

[Edited on 12-19-2005 by bradofshaw]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 19, 2005)

See also this thread.


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## Henry from Canada (Dec 19, 2005)

There is nothing wrong with praising the Holy Spirit.

However, I see Benny Hinn and other Charismatics give a lot of attention and praise to the Holy Spirit. 

Question 1: 
Why is the focus of many contemporary songs and many sermons on the Holy Spirit and not God or Jesus? What are the motivations?

I believe the Bible refers to Jesus and God much more than the Holy Spirit.

Question 2: 
Does it matter that many contemporary churches seem to focus on the Holy Spirit, rather than God and Jesus?


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## Mike (Dec 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Henry from Canada_
> Question 2:
> Does it matter that many contemporary churches seem to focus on the Holy Spirit, rather than God and Jesus?


This would concern me. It seems the principal role of the Spirit in Holy Writ is to direct glory unto the Father or the Son.


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## Henry from Canada (Dec 19, 2005)

That is precisely what I thought Mike, and I think Mayflower thinks the same thing.

I do not think Mayflower or anyone else here thinks it is wrong to praise the Holy Spirit.

I think that what SOME people find perplexing is the RELATIVE amount of attention contemporary churches place on the Holy Spirit.

I have read many PB posts in the last year. The question I ask myself continually in many posts is, 'What is the motivation.'


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 19, 2005)

The Father is to be worshipped through the Son by the power of the Spirit. The Father is seeking _those_ worshippers. However, we ought to remember that anyone who praises "God" priases the Trinity - all three. Economically/Soteriologically we worship the Father, Son and Spirit in thier respective roles. Theologically, we worship the Trinity. 


The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XXI
Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day

II. Religious worship is to be given to *God*, _the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost_; and to *him* alone; [3] not to angels, saints, or any other creature:[4] and, since the fall, not without a Mediator; nor in the mediation of any other but of Christ alone.[5]

3. John 5:23; Matt. 28:19; II Cor. 13:14; Eph. 3:14; Rev. 5:11-14; Acts 10:25-26
4. Col. 2:18; Rev. 19:10; Rom. 1:25
5. John 14:6; I Tim. 2:5; Eph. 2:18; Col. 3:17


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## Henry from Canada (Dec 20, 2005)

Trevor, I take it you are uncomfortable with the way some Charismatics worship the Holy Spirit.

I think there are many people that have the same discomfort.

I think this discomfort is due to the 'perceived motivation' of this worship.

Some Charismatics associate the Baptism of the Holy Spirit with speaking in tongues.

They associate their numerous prophecies with the Holy Spirit.

They associate their healings, etc. to the Holy Spirit.

It seems that to some the Holy Spirit is merely the means to healings, prophecies, etc. I have seen Benny Hinn supposedly 'blow' the Holy Spirit onto people in order to bless them.

Consequently, some Charismatics seem to emphasize the Holy Spirit over God and Jesus.

I do not think these Charismatics purposefully mean to de-emphasize God, however, they seem to focus on the Spirit. (And many seem to think non-Charismatics are basically spiritually dead.)

I know how incredibly harsh this sounds. 

A sidebar:
--------------
In 1992, I attended a Benny Hinn crusade. 

At one point, he asked everyone in my area to stand up so that he could 'blow the Holy Spirit onto us.' He blew, and many around me were so overwhelmed by 'the Spirit' that they fell backwards. 

I just stood there; feeling like a dummy.


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## Me Died Blue (Dec 20, 2005)

> _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> II. Religious worship is to be given to *God*, _the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost_; and to *him* alone; [3] not to angels, saints, or any other creature:[4] and, since the fall, not without a Mediator; nor in the mediation of any other but of Christ alone.[5]



Hmm...particularly in light of your emphases with the bold and italics, Matt, that kind of reminds me of something someone once said about God as one person in three persons...

I just couldn't resist!


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## Mayflower (Dec 20, 2005)

Thank you brothers for your repley. But my piont is (also what trevorjohnson wrote) that there is not one example where they worship the Holy Spirit separetedly, so must we not follow that pattern, and is that by the inspiriration of God not done with a purpose ?


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## mybigGod (Jan 6, 2006)

"Thou art a priest for ever, after the order of Melchizedek," (Ps. 110: 4.) For, doubtless, his purpose was to ratify that point on which he knew that our salvation chiefly hinged.
Rev.1:6. "and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Amen." For we though in ourselves polluted, in him being priests, offer ourselves and our all to God, and freely enter the heavenly sanctuary, so that the sacrifices of prayer and praise which we present are grateful and of sweet odour before him.
"For their sakes I sanctify myself," (John 17: 19 we please him as if we were pure and clean, nay, even sacred-1 a : dedicated or set apart for the service or worship of a deity <a tree sacred to the gods> b : devoted exclusively to one service or use (as of a person or purpose) <a fund sacred to charity>
2 a : worthy of religious veneration : HOLY b : entitled to reverence and respect
3 : of or relating to religion : not secular or profane <sacred music>
Dan 9:24. "Seventy weeks have been decreed for your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to make an end of sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy and to anoint the most holy place". For we must attend to the contrast between this unction and the shadowy one which was then in use; as if the angel had said, that when the shadows were dispersed, there would be a clear priesthood in the person of Christ. J.Calvin
Unction- the act of anointing 
a : religious or spiritual fervor or the expression of such fervor b : exaggerated, assumed, or superficial earnestness of language or manner 
I Jn.2:20. " But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and you all know. 27. As for you, the anointing which you received from Him abides in you, and you have no need for anyone to teach you; but as His anointing teaches you about all things, and is true and is not a lie, and just as it has taught you, you abide in Him." To designate the Spirit and his gifts by the term "unction" is not new, and ought not to seem absurd because this is the only quarter from which we derive life; but especially in what regards the heavenly life, there is not a drop of vigour in us save what the Holy Spirit instils, who has chosen his seat in Christ, that thence the heavenly riches, of which we are destitute, might flow to us in copious abundance. J.Calvin


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## cupotea (Jan 7, 2006)

"The Lord is the Spirit..." -2 Cor 3:17

What I'm trying to point out is that it's sort of hard to worship God "separately" because He is Three in One. Maybe that's why it isn't commanded?


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## Philip A (Jan 7, 2006)

> *John Owen*, _Communion With God_, Works 2:271
> And are not the like praises and blessings due to him by whom the work of redemption is made effectual to us? who with no less infinite love undertook our consolation than the Son our redemption. When we feel our hearts warmed with joy, supported in peace, established in our obedience, let us ascribe to him the praise that is due to him, bless his name, and rejoice in him.
> And this glorifying of the Holy Ghost in thanksgivings, on a spiritual sense of his consolations, is no small part of our communion with him. Considering his free engagement in this work, his coming forth from the Father to this purpose, his mission by the Son, and condescension therein, his love and kindness, the soul of a believer is poured out in thankful praises to him, and is sweetly affected with the duty. There is no duty that leaves a more heavenly savor in the soul than this does.





> *Gregory of Nazianzus*
> No sooner do I conceive of the One than I am illumined by the Splendour of the Three; no sooner do I distinguish Them than I am carried back to the One. When I think of any One of the Three I think of Him as the Whole, and my eyes are filled, and the greater part of what I am thinking of escapes me. I cannot grasp the greatness of That One so as to attribute a greater greatness to the Rest. When I contemplate the Three together, I see but one torch, and cannot divide or measure out the Undivided Light.


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## Mayflower (Jan 8, 2006)

> _Originally posted by trevorjohnson_
> Am I "Neglecting" any part of the Godhead because I address my prayers to the Father, by the merits of the Son, through the power of the Spirit?
> 
> This seems to be the general pattern that I have ascertained from the Biblical examples.
> ...



Dear trevorjohnson,

Iam agree with you. I love the Owen on the Holy Spirit, but if it is so clear that we can worship the Holy Spirit seperatley, than why do we not see one example in the scripture where the Lord Jesus or the apostle are diong that ?


We are only to worship the Holy Spirit in context of the Godhead. And when we direct our worship to the Father and the Son, the Holy Spirit is actually receiving our worship also

[Edited on 1-8-2006 by Mayflower]


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## Saiph (Jan 9, 2006)

For some reason, I always pray to Jesus. Unless reciting the Lord's prayer.
I do not know why, maybe because when I was a kid I called out to Jesus quite often. But, I think as long as we are trinitarian, it does not matter which person we address. My grandfather always prayed to God the father of Abraham. Maybe there is something to reflect upon in our psychology regarding which person of the Trinity we feel most comfortable addressing.
When we say God, or Lord, it is generic for all three. If the Spirit really takes our words and translates them, then I am sure many technicalities get fixed in the process.


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## gwine (Jan 9, 2006)

Mat 6:9 Pray then like this: "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name.

Joh 4:23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father is seeking such people to worship him. 

I am more comfortable beginning my prayer by addressing the Father. Still working on the "in Jesus' name, amen" part. But, as Mark said, it's probably part of my upbringing.


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## tdowns (Jan 9, 2006)

*Oh, Lord Jesus...*



> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> For some reason, I always pray to Jesus. Unless reciting the Lord's prayer.
> 
> I do not know why, maybe because when I was a kid I called out to Jesus quite often. But, I think as long as we are trinitarian, it does not matter which person we address. My grandfather always prayed to God the father of Abraham. Maybe there is something to reflect upon in our psychology regarding which person of the Trinity we feel most comfortable addressing.
> When we say God, or Lord, it is generic for all three. If the Spirit really takes our words and translates them, then I am sure many technicalities get fixed in the process.



I'm with you here. My prayers almost always start with "Oh, Lord Jesus..." I often times include the Lord's Prayer in my rambling prayers, and in my quiet prayer time as well as my through-out the day incessant, "talking, praying" time, I usually am saying Jesus. I will often include all of the trinity in my prayers with the kids at night. 


On a side note, is it o.k. to think of Jesus as our "friend", due to his humanity, and are we able to talk(pray) to him this way, as well as dealing with God as the Almighty, worthy of our praise, and due our falling on our faces in humility and thankfulness while we pray? 

Is my "friend" approach a result of my early charismatic, evangelical upbringing, or is this biblical.

Sorry, I should start another thread on this if not a short answer.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jan 9, 2006)

I tend to pray to all Three, depending upon the situation. Most often I pray to the Father, but when I struggle with doubt or guilt, I pray to Christ for deliverance. When I require power to overcome sin or trials, or unction in preaching, I will pray to the Spirit, or pray for Jesus to send the Spirit. I'm trying to be more trinitarian in my prayers. It helps me to meditate better on the gospel. I do like that Owen quote. We should vocalize more appreciation to the Spirit for what He does. 

I think the errors creep in when we mentally or theologically divorce the Spirit from His own primary mission, to point us to and conform us to Christ. This is the error which so many charasmatics fall into (at least from my experience). They focus so much on the spiritual gifts and experiencing the Spirit, that they forget what the gifts are for, to serve and glorify Christ. The Spirit is not there to dazzle our senses but strengthen our faith in Christ, to deliver us from the practice of sin, and empower us for service.


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