# Christian Atheists



## greenbaggins (Sep 10, 2017)

Christians can oftentimes be functioning atheists. We think we are immune to this particular moral failing. Thomas Ridgeley says otherwise: 

There is a great deal of atheism in our hearts; by reason of which we are prone sometimes to call in question the being, perfections, and providence of God. The devil also frequently injects atheistical thoughts into our minds; which are a great affliction to us, and render it necessary that we should use all possible means for out being established in this great truth (_Commentary on the Larger Catechism_, volume 1, p. 9).​

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## Clark-Tillian (Sep 10, 2017)

Very true. Sadly.


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## Clark-Tillian (Sep 10, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Christians can oftentimes be functioning atheists. We think we are immune to this particular moral failing. Thomas Ridgeley says otherwise:
> 
> There is a great deal of atheism in our hearts; by reason of which we are prone sometimes to call in question the being, perfections, and providence of God. The devil also frequently injects atheistical thoughts into our minds; which are a great affliction to us, and render it necessary that we should use all possible means for out being established in this great truth (_Commentary on the Larger Catechism_, volume 1, p. 9).​


Oh, Lane. Thanks. I'm trying to sell a few books on the Sales forum; I read your query about Ridgeley, and promptly purchased the first volume. Currently scouting for Volume 2.


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## Ed Walsh (Sep 11, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> There is a great deal of atheism in our hearts;



I am happy to say that God has preserved me from most (my conscience says all) overt conscience atheism. But a practical _atheism_, which is, I think, required to commit any sin still haunts me.


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## jw (Sep 11, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Thomas Ridgeley says otherwise:
> 
> The devil also frequently injects atheistical thoughts into our minds; . . . (_Commentary on the Larger Catechism_, volume 1, p. 9).​


I am curious what exactly Master Ridgeley means here. Is he speaking generically of mankind, or specifically of Christians? I also wonder if there are any Puritan works/sermons dedicated to proving out biblically the concept that the devil can "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds? As I consider it, I acknowledge that the devil may tempt men to sin, and that -coupled with our own lusts which draw us off (James 1)- we are easy prey toward atheistic thought and practice, having exposed oneself to the evil one; yet, the idea that the devil can invade our thoughts in such a way as to "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds is not something I've thought on a lot. Would be interested to read more. I have enough wickedness that comes from my own heart to deal with, so it's shuddering to consider this other concept.


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## jw (Sep 11, 2017)

P.S. - I want to make clear that I am not denying that wicked thoughts -though they're borne of our corruption- are invasive and often unwanted. I am simply particularly curious about the idea, however, of Satan _injecting_ thoughts in our own minds. One very good sermon I have read on sinful thoughts and their cure is from the Rev. Stephen Charnock from Volume 5 of his works called _A Discourse of the Sinfulness and Cure of Thoughts (Gen. 6.5)_.


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## greenbaggins (Sep 11, 2017)

Joshua, I am fairly sure that he means Christians here. The sections before and after are not especially clarifying, however.


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## JimmyH (Sep 11, 2017)

On a lighter note, being in the midst of a hurricane yesterday I was thinking, there are _no_ atheists in a hurricane.


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## Ed Walsh (Sep 11, 2017)

Joshua said:


> I also wonder if there are any Puritan works/sermons dedicated to proving out biblically the concept that the devil can "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds?



This is not a Puritan work, but I was thinking. Isn't this what happened to Jesus in the wilderness with the three temptations?
Unless, of course, one thinks there actually is a mountain high enough for Jesus to see all the kingdoms of the world. What about the pinnacle of the temple? Was Jesus transported there and tempted? Or was Satan _injecting_ thoughts into the mind of Jesus?

What do you think?


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## earl40 (Sep 12, 2017)

Ed Walsh said:


> This is not a Puritan work, but I was thinking. Isn't this what happened to Jesus in the wilderness with the three temptations?
> Unless, of course, one thinks there actually is a mountain high enough for Jesus to see all the kingdoms of the world. What about the pinnacle of the temple? Was Jesus transported there and tempted? Or was Satan _injecting_ thoughts into the mind of Jesus?
> 
> What do you think?



I think Jesus and His temptation, was unique and unlike any other human being, with exception of Adam and Eve, so far as literally seeing or hearing the serpent. The idea of satan putting direct thoughts into ones mind today is along the same line of thinking of medieval Halloween thinking.


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## Gforce9 (Sep 12, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Christians can oftentimes be functioning atheists. We think we are immune to this particular moral failing. Thomas Ridgeley says otherwise:
> 
> There is a great deal of atheism in our hearts; by reason of which we are prone sometimes to call in question the being, perfections, and providence of God. The devil also frequently injects atheistical thoughts into our minds; which are a great affliction to us, and render it necessary that we should use all possible means for out being established in this great truth (_Commentary on the Larger Catechism_, volume 1, p. 9).​



I must embarrassingly admit that I, too often, act as an unbeliever. I believe, help my unbelief......

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## BGF (Sep 12, 2017)

"Injection" here does not have to mean a supernatural implanting of a thought. After all, Satan first tempted Eve, saying, "Yea, hath God said...?" There was not a direct communication to her mind except by the common means of speech. We are surrounded by atheists and are inundated by their atheistic thoughts by natural means. I see a figure of speech here similar to one used by Christians all the time. How often have you heard the phrase "plant a seed in their heart"? There is no literal planting of anything, seed or thought.


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## Crede ut intelligas (Sep 12, 2017)

Joshua said:


> I am curious what exactly Master Ridgeley means here. Is he speaking generically of mankind, or specifically of Christians? I also wonder if there are any Puritan works/sermons dedicated to proving out biblically the concept that the devil can "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds? As I consider it, I acknowledge that the devil may tempt men to sin, and that -coupled with our own lusts which draw us off (James 1)- we are easy prey toward atheistic thought and practice, having exposed oneself to the evil one; yet, the idea that the devil can invade our thoughts in such a way as to "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds is not something I've thought on a lot. Would be interested to read more. I have enough wickedness that comes from my own heart to deal with, so it's shuddering to consider this other concept.


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## Crede ut intelligas (Sep 12, 2017)

Not sure if anyone ever read this puritan writing:
Satana noemata, or, The wiles of Satan : in a discourse upon 2 Cor. 2. 11 / by Spurstowe, William, 1605-1666.


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## Crede ut intelligas (Sep 12, 2017)

or Thomas Brooks, "Precious remedies against Satan's devices."


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## earl40 (Sep 12, 2017)

BGF said:


> There was not a direct communication to her mind except by the common means of speech. We are surrounded by atheists and are inundated by their atheistic thoughts by natural means.



Not to derail, did such did I not?.  Why would one believe that Eve did not hear satan by a natural means?


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## bookslover (Sep 12, 2017)

The common idea of an atheist is that he is someone who doesn't believe that there is a God, that no God exists. But, I think this is wrong, especially in light of Romans 1.18-23 and the Bible's general teaching as a whole.

In actual fact, there is no such thing as a person who does not believe that God exists.

I think it's better to say that an atheist is someone who knows that God exists, that there is a God, _but resents the fact that He exists, and resists and suppresses this knowledge within him because he hates God and wants to be his own master. 
_
Everyone knows that God exists _and_ hates that fact until he or she is regenerated by God's Holy Spirit.

Not an original thought with me; just thought I'd throw this into the mix.

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## BGF (Sep 12, 2017)

earl40 said:


> Not to derail, did such did I not?.  Why would one believe that Eve did not hear Satan by a natural means?


I'm not saying that someone would believe that. I used this as an example of what "injecting" or implanting thoughts could mean. I have no reason to believe that Satan has changed his tactics, and I assume Ridgeley wouldn't either. I am saying that his use of the term "inject" is metaphorical rather than descriptive; a rhetorical flourish.

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## jw (Sep 13, 2017)

BGF said:


> "Injection" here does not have to mean a supernatural implanting of a thought.


 Agreed. I was just wondering if anyone had some further insight on Ridgeley's use of it here, so as not to impute to him the things that come to mind that are fraught with mysticism in this day.


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## JimmyH (Sep 17, 2017)

Joshua said:


> *I also wonder if there are any Puritan works/sermons dedicated to proving out biblically the concept that the devil can "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds? *As I consider it, I acknowledge that the devil may tempt men to sin, and that -coupled with our own lusts which draw us off (James 1)- we are easy prey toward atheistic thought and practice, having exposed oneself to the evil one; yet, the idea that the devil can invade our thoughts in such a way as to "inject" wicked thoughts into our minds is not something I've thought on a lot. Would be interested to read more. I have enough wickedness that comes from my own heart to deal with, so it's shuddering to consider this other concept.



On Monday, this past September 11 at 12:02pm, having the night before had my electricity restored after hurricane Irma, I painstakingly typed out the quoted text below, by Reverend D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones, out of his commentary on the The Book of the Ephesians, volume 7, "The Christian Warfare" pages 88 & 89, the power went off and was out 3 days. The text I had typed was gone. I don't attribute that to the 'wiles of the devil', but you never know.


> Another way in which the devil comes and causes havoc is by attacking us with evil thoughts. The fact that you are tempted by evil thoughts must not lead you to the conclusion that you are not a Christian. That is what the devil would have you believe, of course. It is 'the fiery darts of the wicked one'. Have we not all experienced them ? Even when you may be reading your Bible evil and blasphemous thoughts may come to you. Your are not thinking about such things, and you don't not want to do so. Where have they come from ? They are not yours.
> This is a very comforting and consoling teaching; that is why we are dealing with it in such detail. Had you thought that all this teaching was remote and theoretical? You will find that it provides the greatest comfort. How do you know, you may ask, whether they are your thoughts or the thoughts of the devil ? If you have them and wish that they were not there, then they are not yours: they are the devil's. He attacks us by hurling evil and blasphemous thoughts at us.
> He insinuates them. And not only evil thoughts but evil imaginations. It is often very difficult to control our mind and thoughts and imaginations. The devil has power to lead them, and especially if you are not aware of it and fail to stop him. And thus he will take you captive, and make you intensely miserable.


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## earl40 (Sep 17, 2017)

I grieve to think many think the devil can control our mind and thoughts and imaginations.


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## JimmyH (Sep 17, 2017)

earl40 said:


> I grieve to think many think the devil can control our mind and thoughts and imaginations.


Just in my humble opinion, I think MLJ is saying that the devil can influence our minds with evil thoughts/imaginations, _not_ control our minds. Certainly not a believer whom the Spirit indwells. If and when I experience thoughts/imaginations I determine originate from the devil I say 'get thee behind me satan.'


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## earl40 (Sep 17, 2017)

JimmyH said:


> Just in my humble opinion, I think MLJ is saying that the devil can influence our minds with evil thoughts/imaginations, _not_ control our minds. Certainly not a believer whom the Spirit indwells. If and when I experience thoughts/imaginations I determine originate from the devil I say 'get thee behind me Satan.'



I hear you, though I believe the context below does indeed suggest satan somehow has the power to _directly_ influence our thoughts, like we are doing right at this moment.

"It is often very difficult to control our mind and thoughts and imaginations. The devil has power to lead them, and especially if you are not aware of it and fail to stop him."


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