# Praying over a glass of water and having the patient drink it



## Pergamum (Dec 6, 2018)

I have a solid Christian teacher who we've sent into a remote area. She ran out of meds to give the people. So she told them to pray over a glass of water and then drink the water. 

This sounds very animistic. In other areas of doctrine she is very solid. And she does much to help the local people. But this sounds weird. In Mslm areas they do this stuff. The Muslims would deny that it is animism...but then again they parade around a black rock and throw rocks at the devil. 

Can I look the other way or must I have a talk with her?


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## Cedarbay (Dec 6, 2018)

Whatever her motivation or belief, I would think your ministry could get some legal heat for giving false medical "advice".

Even worse is the possibility of the Christian witness there being compromised.


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## earl40 (Dec 6, 2018)

No different than the blessing of the ships.


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## Edward (Dec 6, 2018)

Not enough info.

Giving thanks for clean water (particularly if hydration is needed) = good.

Using the glass of water like a Reverend Ike prayer 'cloth' or a Benny Hinn pat on the head = bad 

First step - gather facts. Then react.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Tom Hart (Dec 6, 2018)

If this is actually effective, then why not dispense with medicine entirely? She could really be giving the wrong impression. It would be better to simply pray minus the glass of water.

Reactions: Like 1


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## RamistThomist (Dec 6, 2018)

I bless my food before I eat it. I don't think it cures cancer or anything. But we're told to bless, and blessing is a type of prayer.


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## Pergamum (Dec 6, 2018)

When I lived on another island, I once had Mslms come to my house to pray for my newborn child and pray over a glass of water and ask me to drink it. They were offended first because I said I couldn't have them lead me in prayer since they did not worship the true God, and second because I said their prayer was ineffectual. They left mad. Not sure what I could have done different.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 6, 2018)

Pergamum said:


> When I lived on another island, I once had Mslms come to my house to pray for my newborn child and pray over a glass of water and ask me to drink it. They were offended first because I said I couldn't have them lead me in prayer since they did not worship the true God, and second because I said their prayer was ineffectual. They left mad. Not sure what I could have done different.



You did the right thing.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 6, 2018)

What is the praying for? To turn the water into medicine or to pray that God would prevent them from getting sick because of something in the water? The latter I think is acceptable.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 6, 2018)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> What is the praying for? To turn the water into medicine or to pray that God would prevent them from getting sick because of something in the water? The latter I think is acceptable.



Right. I pray I don't get sick quite often. I don't think that is animism. Animism is when you think spirits or elementals (what St Paul calls stoichiea) reside in nature or matter or whatever.


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## Jack K (Dec 6, 2018)

Tom Hart said:


> It would be better to simply pray minus the glass of water.



Exactly. When we are able, we give material aid to those who are needy (James 2:15-16). But always, we turn to God in faith. And the best way to practice such faith is straight prayer. Adding a glass of water or other talisman only distracts from the truth that our hope is in a loving God. Or worse, it is pure superstition.

When my dad was a missionary, people would often want him to add some physical or material element to his prayers for them, or they would expect him to order them to conduct some ceremony. He adopted the practice of politely refusing and then explaining that the true God does not require elaborate ceremonies or magic tokens. The true God is eager to listen to his children and always attentive to their cries, so that such displays are completely unnecessary.

This turned out to be a powerful witness. The local witch doctors required hefty payment for elaborate, multi-day ceremonies in which the sick person had to prove their devotion many times over by ingesting this or that herb or pollen. It was important, especially in that culture, to show that the true God is much better.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Pergamum (Dec 6, 2018)

How close is the glass of water to a talisman?


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## earl40 (Dec 7, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> I bless my food before I eat it. I don't think it cures cancer or anything. But we're told to bless, and blessing is a type of prayer.



Food is the blessing, and blessing such is a form of animism. This touches on how many think grace is a type of substance, like sugar being sprinkled.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 7, 2018)

earl40 said:


> Food is the blessing, and blessing such is a form of animism. This touches on how many think grace is a type of substance, like sugar being sprinkled.



I at least agree with you that grace isn't a substance. That's the medieval Roman Catholic way of thinking.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 7, 2018)

"You shall serve the Lord your God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will take sickness away from among you."

Jesus is referred to as blessing food before eating it as well.


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## earl40 (Dec 7, 2018)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> "You shall serve the Lord your God, and he will bless your bread and your water, and I will take sickness away from among you."
> 
> Jesus is referred to as blessing food before eating it as well.



Big difference in The Son of God blessing something vs. a mere man trying to do such. Also giving thanks is not a blessing.


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## Jack K (Dec 7, 2018)

Pergamum said:


> How close is the glass of water to a talisman?



That is the issue, isn't it? It depends on intent and perception. Does the minister use it in a way similar to a talisman? Does the person drinking it think of it in a similar way?

Given the cultural climate you describe and the practices of non-Christians in the region, I am assuming that in the mind of the person drinking the water it functions similarly to a talisman. At the very least, there is a high danger that it will become that in the mind of the drinker. Because of this, even if the minister's mindset is more biblical, the practice is probably unhelpful.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 7, 2018)

earl40 said:


> Big difference in The Son of God blessing something vs. a mere man trying to do such. Also giving thanks is not a blessing.



Should we stop blessing our food?


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## earl40 (Dec 7, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Should we stop blessing our food?



Yep


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## RamistThomist (Dec 7, 2018)

earl40 said:


> Yep



So just dig in?


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## Cedarbay (Dec 7, 2018)

Imagine if a pastor came into a hospital and said, sorry they ran out of chemo, however, let's pray over this bag of saline solution and it will substitute with no problem.

Am I off the beam in thinking this woman's actions are seriously wrong?

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 7, 2018)

Cedarbay said:


> Imagine if a pastor came into a hospital and said, sorry they ran out of chemo, however, let's pray over this bag of saline solution and it will substitute with no problem.
> 
> Am I off the beam in thinking this woman's actions are seriously wrong?


I think it depends on her intentions and reasons why.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Cedarbay (Dec 7, 2018)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> I think it depends on her intentions and reasons why.


Per the OP, she ran out of medicine. At that point she must declare this unfortunate news, not promote that a glass of water that has been prayed over will heal. Why even bother with medicine at all then, if glasses of 'holy' water will provide medical relief.

Perhaps my past experience in the RCC and charismaticism has me clearly rejecting any practice of prayer that suggests we know God confers power to an object, such as a relic, a statue, or a glass of water.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 7, 2018)

Cedarbay said:


> Per the OP, she ran out of medicine. At that point she must declare this unfortunate news, not promote that a glass of water that has been prayed over will heal. Why even bother with medicine at all then, if glasses of 'holy' water will provide medical relief.
> 
> Perhaps my past experience in the RCC and charismaticism has me clearly rejecting any practice of prayer that suggests we know God confers power to an object, such as a relic, a statue, or a glass of water.


If the truth is that she thought the water was turning into medicine through prayer, yes this seems very strange. But there might be more to it that would justify her actions. Maybe the medicine helped the body ingest poor quality water, and she wanted them to pray that God would prevent them from getting ill from the water. Just my thought.


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## Cedarbay (Dec 7, 2018)

From the OP, the word 'so' suggests one thing led to an other. No medicine led to praying over water. I hope it all gets sorted out for the benefit of the people served by this mission.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 7, 2018)

Cedarbay said:


> From the OP, the word 'so' suggests one thing led to an other. No medicine led to praying over water. I hope it all gets sorted out for the benefit of the people served by this mission.


Amen!


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## earl40 (Dec 7, 2018)

BayouHuguenot said:


> So just dig in?



Be grateful and dig in.


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## Pergamum (Dec 8, 2018)

She ran out of meds. The people are always dehydrated anyway and need more water. I need to talk to her about her reasoning. She does a great job of teaching and seems to know her doctrine well. She is also helping me push to end child-marriages and is very brave to go talk to the would-be husbands, telling them this is not right. She had to take a boat out due to some inter clan violence this month. So I don't want to pick at straws with her.


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