# Paul, spiritual gifts



## wmc1982 (Jul 27, 2008)

I'm uncertain about the spiritual gifts that Paul believed in and to what degree we should believe in today.

Was Paul's "tongues" an actual language or not?

Is there a point in history when these gifts cease? If so, where do you get your Biblical authority?

Thanks (I am confused much on this issue and would be blessed to find help from the body)

Will

(don't know if this helps but my current reading is "Paul: Apostle of the Heart Set Free", by FF Bruce)


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## MW (Jul 27, 2008)

Paul's reference to "tongues" is literally "languages," and undoubtedly refers to actual languages which were unknown to the speaker/hearer and therefore required interpretation. On the other hand, his readership had a misguided view of the tongues phenomenon, which made its ecstatic nature valuable in and of itself. It may appear that certain "indicative" statements of the apostle give credence to the idea that they were not proper languages, but at this point he is simply arguing according to the terms of his interlocutors.

1 Cor. 13:10 teaches that tongues would cease. The issue is what is meant by "perfect" in that context. I suggest that it should be given the same meaning as throughout the first letter to the Corinthians, and that it pertains to spiritual maturity. This accords with the emphasis on charity as completing the believer's character and serving as a more excellent way for church ministry. It also accounts for the tendency in the following chapter to play down the tongues phenomenon to the point of being non functional.


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## Roldan (Jul 27, 2008)

Grace and Peace Will

I would recommend pickup "The Charasmatic Gift of Prophecy" subtitle "A Reformed Response to Wayne Grudem" by Kenneth L. Gentry Jr.

His exegesis is on point and captures Paul's definition of the gifts.

I was Pentecostal for many years and hated Reformed Theology until I read this book.


Amazon.com: The Charismatic Gift of Prophecy: Kenneth L., Jr. Gentry: Books


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## wmc1982 (Jul 27, 2008)

Thank you both who responded to my post. I have much to learn on this subject!


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## Roldan (Jul 27, 2008)

wmc1982 said:


> Thank you both who responded to my post. I have much to learn on this subject!



Your more that welcomed and I almost forgot this book

"Signs of the Apostles" by Walter Chantry

Amazon.com: Signs of the Apostles: Walter Chantry: Books

THis book together with Gentry is perfect for you and devastating to the charasmatic view.


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## KMK (Jul 27, 2008)

armourbearer said:


> Paul's reference to "tongues" is literally "languages," and *undoubtedly *refers to actual languages which were unknown to the speaker/hearer and therefore required interpretation.



I think what he is asking is how one arrives 'undobtedly' to this conviction. Can you take us through it, Rev Winzer?


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## MW (Jul 27, 2008)

KMK said:


> I think what he is asking is how one arrives 'undobtedly' to this conviction. Can you take us through it, Rev Winzer?



The close association with the gift of interpretation (hermeneia), and the apostle's inistence that all tongues be intepreted, is a strong indication that the gift of the Spirit was an endowment with the ability to speak a proper languages unlearned by the speaker. All doubt is removed by the reference in 14:10, 11, that none of the kinds of voices in the world is without "signification," and if the hearer does not know the "meaning" of the voice he shall be to the speaker a barbarian -- one who does not speak one's language. Finally, the tongue is a sign for those that do not believe. This could only be possible if the tongue referred to an ability to speak a language that would be naturally understood by the unbeliever.


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