# Lord of the Rings



## Scott (Feb 28, 2006)

Anyone familiar with any good articles (preferably online), books, etc. dealing with the themese of the Lord of the Rings? I am reading Finding God in the Lord of the Rings and it is not very good.


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## Puritanhead (Feb 28, 2006)

This book is published by the conservative publisher ISI and is probably much better quality than the book you're reading-- if you want to get some deeper philosophical meaning from this story.

I imagine Tolkein is like C.S. Lewis' _Chronicles of Narnia_ in many respects, and perhaps we can elucidate Christian themes and lessons from the books. I've always been skeptical though if I heard a person say I _found_ the Gospel reading Tolkein... yeah, I actually heard that once before. There is only so much that can be learned from Tolkein.







_J.R.R. Tolkien's Sanctifying Myth: Understanding Middle-earth_
Written by Bradley J. Birzer
Foreword by Joseph Pearce
Publisher: ISI Books

Since the appearance of The Lord of the Rings in 1954, J. R. R. Tolkien's works have always sold briskly, appealing to a wide and diverse audience of intellectuals, religious believers, fantasy enthusiasts, and science fiction aficionados. Now, Peter Jackson's film version of Tolkien's trilogy"”with its accompanying Rings-related paraphernalia and publicity"”is playing a unique role in the dissemination of Tolkien's imaginative creation to the masses. Yet, for most readers and viewers, the underlying meaning of Middle-earth has remained obscure.

Bradley Birzer has remedied that with this fresh study. In J. R. R. Tolkien's Sanctifying Myth: Understanding Middle-earth, Birzer explains the surprisingly specific religious symbolism that permeates Tolkien's Middle-earth legendarium. He also explores the social and political views that motivated the Oxford don, ultimately situating Tolkien within the Christian humanist tradition represented by Thomas More and T. S. Eliot, Dante and C. S. Lewis. Birzer argues that through the genre of myth Tolkien created a world that is essentially truer than the one we think we see around us everyday, a world that transcends the colorless disenchantment of our postmodern age.

"A small knowledge of history," Tolkien once wrote, "depresses one with the sense of the everlasting weight of human iniquity." As Birzer demonstrates, Tolkien's recognition of evil became mythologically manifest in the guise of Ringwraiths, Orcs, Sauron, and other dark beings. But Tolkien was ultimately optimistic: even weak, bumbling hobbits and humans, as long as they cling to the Good, can finally prevail. Bradley Birzer has performed a great service in elucidating Tolkien's powerful moral vision. 

Forward Acrobat PDF
Introduction Acrobat PDF


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## Scott (Feb 28, 2006)

Thanks. That looks great. Have you read it and do you like it? My library has it and I requested it. Will get it soon.

[Edited on 2-28-2006 by Scott]


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## Puritan Sailor (Feb 28, 2006)

In _The Silmarillion_, which is suppose to be the ancient history of Middle Earth, a letter of Tolkein is published basically introducing his own philosophy behind writing LOTR. He rejects any idea of writing an allegory of Christian truth. I would encourage you to read it if you wish to read from the author's own mouth why he wrote it and what he meant by it. 

I've quoted some of it here on this thread. 
http://www.puritanboard.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=3234#pid37417


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2006)

The Hobbit = Older Testament
LOTR = Newer Testament
Silmarrillian = Apocrypha.

I am also editing a Lord of the Rings study bible.

[Edited on 2--28-06 by Draught Horse]


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## Ex Nihilo (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> The Hobbit = Older Testament
> LOTR = Newer Testament
> Silmarrillian = Apocrypha.
> ...



I have to disagree.

The Silmarillion, with its creation story and accounts of patriarchs, is _obviously_ the Old Testament.

LOTR is the New Testament, sure. The Hobbit can be the Apocrypha...

Though certainly not specifically Christian (and that may be better--LOTR itself is not specifically Christian and trying to make it so can be a mistake), the book _Understanding Middle Earth: The Best of Tolkien Criticism_ is pretty nice... a lot of different articles ranging from an exploration of the book's relationship to Norse mythology to C.S. Lewis's review to W.H. Auden's comments. Some good stuff.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ex Nihilo_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



My post was tongue in cheek, but you got me there!


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## Puritanhead (Feb 28, 2006)

I think this succinctly explains the limitations of _The Lord of the Rings_ as a Christian allegory, particularly when Tolkein himself says this:


> For another and more important thing: it is involved in, and explicitly contains the Christian religion. For reasons which I will not elaborate, that seems to me fatal. Myth and fairy-story must, as all art, reflect and contain in solution elements of religious truth (or error), but not explicit, not in the known form of the primary 'real' world.


 The fact is that Tolkein modeled his mythological universe after Celtic, and more particularly Scandanavian mythology and folklore. That there are Christian themes that can be implicitly read is to be admitted. I think one shouldn't look beyond the struggle between good and evil, if one wants to get some overarching theme complimentary to Christianity out of the LOTR.

I do think some fundamentalist dispensationalists who beat this issue up as syncretism are wrong, as well as those who make this story analagous to _Dungeons and Dragons_. A Christian can surely be inspired by great classics of literature, and mythology and ancient texts-- Tolkein not being least among them.

Some people say Elbereth is a type of the Virgin Mary-- in trying to Romanize the LOTR.

Finally, I think we need to recognize the limitations of using the LOTR as Christian allegory, particularly when Tolkein himself says there was no attempt on his part to embed Christian allegory in his stories. I agree with Puritansailor here.


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## mgeoffriau (Feb 28, 2006)

It can't be allegory -- because allegory rests upon the intention of the author, not the reader, and Tolkein was very clear that he intended no allegorical meaning. Apparently he was quite critical of Lewis's use of allegory in the Chronicles of Narnia. 

Not sure where to find the quote, but I seem to recall that Tolkein sought to incorporate the themes of all great epics, and that if the reader found some agreement or consonance with another story (be it the Christian faith, WWI, or world mythology), that was to be expected, as they all share certain common themes. But Tolkein was clear that this activity (of identifying commonality with a particular story) was limited to the reader, and did not extend to his own intentions.


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## RamistThomist (Feb 28, 2006)

But if its allegory, does that still mean it can't be true????


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## Puritanhead (Mar 1, 2006)

Well as long as Scott doesn't read the other book _Finding God in the Matrix_ than his explorations are fine with me--- The Matrix is imbued with gnostic and eastern themes.


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## mgeoffriau (Mar 1, 2006)

I don't understand the question.



> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> But if its allegory, does that still mean it can't be true????


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## RamistThomist (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by mgeoffriau_
> I don't understand the question.
> 
> 
> ...



It was a joke. I teased a few people on the thread of unicorns. Since then I have sought to cultivate, quite tongue in cheek, an "enchanted" worldview. To quote Chesterton, I am more inclined to believe in Fairy Tales, than in some scientific report.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 1, 2006)

LOTR is awsome!!!!!!!!


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## RamistThomist (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Bladestunner316_
> LOTR is awsome!!!!!!!!



Indeed, and to get some postmodernists mad, it is the metanarrative of the West.


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## Bladestunner316 (Mar 1, 2006)

just say no to pomo!!


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## Scott (Mar 1, 2006)

I know that Tolkein expressly denied that it was allegory, but that does not mean that the LOTR does nor affirm pieces of the Christian worldview, whether moral or otherwise. For example, in LOTR there is good and evil and for the most part it consistent with Christian morality. Another example is that the movie indicates that there is a transcendant meaning to earthly actions (eg. Gandalf's conversation with Frodo that he was "meant" to have the ring and powers at play beyond them).

In this sense, Aesop's fables can confirm Christian truth (simple moral pieces of the Christian worldview), even if the author did not intend it to do so. 

And while I will say that there is no allegory (must take Tolkein at his word), Aaragorn does seem like a Christ figure. Each of the following can be said as much for Aaragorn as for Christ:

> He came in humilty.
> He was not recognized for who he really was.
> He achieves the salvation of his people.
> This salvation is achieved through self-sacrifice.
> This salvation is achieved through weakness, not strength
> He is glorified as king.


A couple of expanded points:
> Aaragorn comes in a humble guise and people do not recognize him for who he truly is. He is a dirty and rough ranger of the north. Famous line "All that is gold does not glitter, all who wander are not lost" from a prophecy no less. I also remember in the conversation b/t Aaragorn and Frodo in the Inn of the Prancing Pony where Aaragorn laughs b/c Frodo says something to the effect that Aaragorn looks foul but feels fair. Of course, Christ came in humilty and did not have the appearance of a king.
> Aaragorn's achieves the salvation of his people not in strength but in self-sacrifice and weakness. He is willing to sacrifice himself and lead a suicide force as a decoy to allow the ring bearer time. The power of the evil one is intensely directed at him. But He is snatched from the jaws of death at the last moment. In the Bible this kind of last-moment rescue from death symbolizes death in a figurative fashion. (See Heb. 11:19). 

I grant that Tolkein did not intend this as an allegory, but there are striking parallels and he is at least tapping into the Christian hero themes.

[Edited on 3-1-2006 by Scott]


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## Scott (Mar 1, 2006)

BTW, I read Beowulf for the first time a couple of years ago and instantly recognized the Hobbit. Even the secret passage into the lair of the monster.


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## Robin (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Bladestunner316_
> just say no to pomo!!



I like this!  

Blade, you'll be selling T-shirts?

r.


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## Robin (Mar 1, 2006)

Scott's points are right-on!

The best book about the same correlations is:

"The Gospel According to Tolkien" by Ralph Wood

A very fine tome, indeed!

What it amounts to is Tolkien is drawing off the Redemptive-historical model of Scripture (as he also translated the Jerusalem Bible.) He HAD to see the structure in his work!

Robin 

[Edited on 3-1-2006 by Robin]


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## Scott (Mar 8, 2006)

I have been reading Bradley J. Birzer's J.R.R. Tolkien´s Sanctifying Myth. This excerpt from Birzer's book I think provides insight into what Tolkien intended.


> "œOf course God is in The Lord of the Rings. The period was pre-Christian, but it was a monotheistic world," Tolkien responded defensively when asked by interviewers in 1968 why he had ignored God in his trilogy. When interviewers pushed him further, asking who the God was, Tolkien responded: "œThis one, of course! The book is about the world that God created "“ the actual world if this planet."
> 
> As subcreator, Tolkien desired to recreate the truth, laws, and beauty of God´s created order. As he told a Jesuit friend, The Lord of the Rings is "œa fundamentally religious and Catholic work; unconsciously so at first, but consciously in its revision." To American evangelical Clyde Kilby, Tolkien wrote: "œI am a Christian and of course what I write will be from that essential viewpoint."


I think this point is relevant, because so many people think that it was not intended to be Christian. I have heard a number of people conclude this based on Tolkien's statement that he did not intend The Lord of the Rings to be allegory. It is Christian, but not in an allegorical sense.


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