# Can one want to believe but can't?



## MichaelGao (Aug 19, 2010)

A nonbeliever friend of mine struggles with this. She wants to believe, but is doubtful of the "supernatural" and "miraculous". Genesis stories, resurrection, Jesus being God-man..etc.

In a practical counselling context. 
For such a one, is the only help we can give is to pray?
What advice would you give? 

Also in a theological context what do you think about people who want to believe, yet ending up unable the whole time. Their "desire" to believe...would you classify it as the "rocky ground" in Matt 13. And they just desire to have the "life" of the believers in some way, yet being blind to Christ in his glory.

Any individuals you personally knew that went through this stage before conversion? Or still going through.


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## Scott1 (Aug 19, 2010)

MichaelGao said:


> A nonbeliever friend of mine struggles with this. She wants to believe, but is doubtful of the "supernatural" and "miraculous". Genesis stories, resurrection, Jesus being God-man..etc.
> 
> In a sense, it is right to pray for (saving) faith, because that at least recognizes that it is a gift of God, not of our own doing (cf Ephesians 2:8,9). The (saving) faith has elements of (_noticia_) awareness _(asensus)_, assent , and transference of reliance (_fiducia_)
> 
> ...


.


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## BobVigneault (Aug 19, 2010)

We can take a lesson from the Prodigal Son here.
Lk 15:14 14 And when he had spent everything, a severe famine arose in that country, and he began to be in need.
Lk 15:17 17 “But when he came to himself..."

We can debate and even create a desire in a person through the art of persuasion and reason but until the person begins to sense, to feel, to suffer a need for God's mercy, then we can only teach and pray. Hopelessness is the pre-requisite to true salvation. Unless one realizes that their need is great but that any effort they make will earn them nothing they won't cry out for mercy. God always hears the cry for mercy (Matt. 20:29-34)

One must realize their utter sinfulness and God's infinite holiness and the absolute helplessness on our part to reconcile the two. Our mental assent can only take us part way, we are saved when we fall in total exhaustion on the mercy of God in Christ through the quickening of the Holy Spirit. Give a defense of the hope that you have and pray that God will remove the scales from her eye and give her a heart of flesh. Praying with you.


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## jwithnell (Aug 19, 2010)

I've seen this from two sides: in my own life, I went through a really dark spiritual time, and understanding the sovereignty of God, realized there was nothing I could do to make God accept me as one of the elect. Repentance and time in the word -- accepting God's word at face value -- eventually built assurance. It took several years. Not easy.

On the other hand, our second oldest talked along similar lines to what you are describing. And she has yet to embrace Christ, indeed seems to be running in the opposite direction. My suspicion: she wanted to pursue the world and used what she knew of the scriptures to defend her decision.

We can't know how your friend is proceeding. Prayer is certainly the order of the day, that God would give her a heart of flesh, and/or build the weak faith that is already there. I would encourage your friend to read the scriptures with an open mind and heart. Perhaps you could find a time to go over her readings with you? I would not major on the minor (six day creation) and would admit to the difficulty in understanding the incarnation. It might be refreshing for her to hear the Christians don't know it all: that some topics are beyond human understanding (explain the Trinity in three paragraphs or less!), but that we take at face value what is recorded in scripture. Pray, and let the Holy Spirit do the rest. It's all we can do.


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## Peairtach (Aug 19, 2010)

It is because Man's sin problem is in the will, the ''can't'' is a ''won't'' and _vice versa_, that his lack of faith is morally culpable.

E.g. if a man or woman couldn't come to Christ because they didn't have legs then they'd have a valid excuse for their unbelief. 

But the inability is in the will which means that they are morally culpable for it, because when they say that they can't believe, they could also say that they sinfully _won't _believe.

There's no excuse for the sin of unbelief. If a man's heart was morally right with God he/she would believe.

We have to keep emphasising this when doing apologetics, lest people get the notion that their unbelief is due to some intellectual lack in knowledge. And yet at the same time the Spirit can use the proclamation of the Gospel and good arguments to convert the will.



> A nonbeliever friend of mine struggles with this. She wants to believe, but is doubtful of the "supernatural" and "miraculous". Genesis stories, resurrection, Jesus being God-man..etc.



When we're converted we experience a ''miracle'' of new birth that is related to Christ's resurection - is a product of Christ's resurrection and its power - which means thart we can accept miracles, if we haven't before. 

Sometimes it might be useful to clear away some of the Enlightenment nonsense about miracles and their possibility with some people. 

Physical miracles are by definition unlikely and rare events and because of this people like Hume argued that they _never _happen. A lot of Enlightenment argument against miracles boils down to that, which is just a tautology. The logic in the argument is lacking.

See Tekton Apologetics, etc.


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## ericfromcowtown (Aug 19, 2010)

I recognize that one could unpackage this more, but I believe the short answer is no:

Mark 9:24 - Immediately the father of the child cried out and said, “I believe; help my unbelief!”

Your friend should similarly cry out.


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## christiana (Aug 19, 2010)

"God commands you to believe and to repent! It is at your peril that you attempt to alter this imperative and immediate obligation, by the substitution preliminary, the performance of which may perhaps soothe your terrors and lull your conscience to sleep but will not avail either to propitiate God or to life you into a safer or more salvable condition as you imagine. For we are saved by faith, not by efforts to induce 'an unwilling God' to give us faith. In going to God, we are to take for granted that He will fulfill His Word and act according to His character. Our appeals are to be made not to an unwilling but to a willing God. We are not to try by our prayers or earnestness to persuade God to be gracious, to exhort salvation from the hand of a grudging, and austere giver. God is pressing His salvation upon us and declaring His infinite willingness to bless at this moment.
God commands you to believe and so long as you do not believe, you are making Him a liar, you are rejecting the truth, you are believing a lie; for unbelief is, in reality, the belief of a lie" Horatius Bonar


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## rbcbob (Aug 19, 2010)

In Jonathan Edwards', FREEDOM OF THE WILL, he covers the seeming conflict of someone who wants to do what is right but cannot. The lie is masterfully exposed by Edwards.


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## Curt (Aug 19, 2010)

There si no one who seeks God, no not one.


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## steadfast7 (Aug 19, 2010)

Blaise Pascal may be helpful in this. After arguing very cogently in his era for belief in God via the "Wager" he also reasoned that people are not able to simply choose what they want to believe. I think he advises the person to spend time with religious people, attend religious services, and perhaps something might rub off on them.


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## Dearly Bought (Aug 19, 2010)

I would be interested to learn why she desires to believe. Is it possibly:

To avoid punishment for sin?
To experience eternal happiness?
To be reunited with loved ones?

It may well be that she has a seed of faith which is fighting doubt. However, it may also be that she is motivated only by self-serving reasons such as those listed above. I would explore her reasons for desiring faith. Many people desire the blessings of heaven but not the Lord who is the source of those blessings.


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## MichaelGao (Aug 19, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> In Jonathan Edwards', FREEDOM OF THE WILL, he covers the seeming conflict of someone who wants to do what is right but cannot. The lie is masterfully exposed by Edwards.


 
Would you be able to point me where to find this in the book? thanks


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## rbcbob (Aug 20, 2010)

MichaelGao said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > In Jonathan Edwards', FREEDOM OF THE WILL, he covers the seeming conflict of someone who wants to do what is right but cannot. The lie is masterfully exposed by Edwards.
> ...



From Part I, Section II onward Edwards develops his thesis which is variously stated as “It is the motive, which, as it stands in the view of the mind, is the strongest, that determines the Will.” And, “the Will always is, as the greatest apparent good is.” And, “the Will is always determined by the strongest motive.”

Edwards sets out his thesis early in the work and develops it with detailed examples. He refutes common misconceptions regarding such terms as Will, Mind, Motives, Desires, Affections, etc. A drunkard has a desire to quit his habit of drink and resolves that he Will do so in future. But sitting there at the bar Will not put down his glass.


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