# VT Massacre



## Blue Tick (Apr 18, 2007)

How do we explain the massacre that has happened in Virginia?

Was this man demon possessed? Does demon possession even happen today?
Or did God just give this man over to the lusts of his depravity? 

I need some guidance and clarification on the issue of demon possession when something evil happens like this.

Grace and Peace


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## ReformedWretch (Apr 18, 2007)

I said in the other VT thread that while he has NO EXCUSE, he just "snapped" after a life of being excluded, picked on, etc. He actually considers himself a maryter for a cause (those who are treated as lessers). 

Working wtih kids I've seen this all too often. Certain kids are BRUTALLY picked on, and I don't mean how we may have been or people we knew. This generation is NASTY mean to those who don't "fit in".

Another reason to home school and send kids to Christian Universities that while not immune to this may stand a better chance of avoiding it. I don't think it was demon posession, he felt justified in what he did, he felt it was called for.


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## staythecourse (Apr 18, 2007)

*On the other hand*

Adam. you got a heart for kids, it's clear.

Yet, this man had a choice to respond to life one way or the other and he let unforgiveness turn to hatred and then mass murder. That little sin bloomed into a terrible fruit that is now affecting others lives and hearts. If they don't act and let bitterness well up in them, they to will act it out in various ways (not as great most likely) and (in short) death begets death. may their be a lot of calling out to God by these people so that Satan does not get a foothold in their lives either.

I am not sure but I am not inclined to think it is demon possession. The demoniacs seemed like wild men or lost control of their bodies in fits in Scripture. I believe more that sin lead to a corrupt mind deviod of love to man and the result was murder and self-destruction.


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## ReformedWretch (Apr 18, 2007)

While I don't want to make excuses for him or anyone like him as all you said is TRUE, I don't know how many people understand just how disgusting kids/teens/college students are today. I've seen girls called fat, and ugly (including horrible curse words as well) because they worse a size 4 or 5! I've seen boys called gay, hit, punched, etc. because they worse a red shirt to school or becuase they couldn't run very fast.

Did you see the video this man sent to NBC news? In it he goes on and on asking if anyone knows what it's like to have your throat slashed, have garbage shoved in your mouth, etc. He asks "isn't your trust fund enough" or "isn't your Mercedes enough"? He asks "do you have to make others lives miserable just because you can? He compares him laying down his life for payback to Jesus Christ! (Yes, I know he's horribly wrong there, but try and see it from his point for a fleeting second.) He goes on about those who get the praise and such being deviants full of debauchery.

He had NO PLACE to judge anyone, he was evil, selfish, and vile. BUT.....we all need to see the lesson in this. We all need to teach our children to be kind, considerate, compassionate, etc. If they aren't, no one has a right to kill them or even harm them other than God almighty, but we've learned some people can snap and take matters into their own hands.


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## Davidius (Apr 18, 2007)

staythecourse said:


> I am not sure but I am not inclined to think it is demon possession. The demoniacs seemed like wild men or lost control of their bodies in fits in Scripture. I believe more that sin lead to a corrupt mind deviod of love to man and the result was murder and self-destruction.





I don't think that the bible ever blames an individual's sin on demons. In the New Testament they caused sicknesses, fits, etc, but they cannot take the place of individual responsibility when it comes to sin.


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## Archlute (Apr 18, 2007)

CarolinaCalvinist said:


> I don't think that the bible ever blames an individual's sin on demons. In the New Testament they caused sicknesses, fits, etc, but they cannot take the place of individual responsibility when it comes to sin.



This is untrue. I think that our post-enlightenment society, including the Christians who live within it, have a difficult time believing in the activity of demons, even when we affirm that the bible speaks of them. I'm not saying that this particular man had a spirit, or was influenced by a spirit for sure, but we do have to allow it as a possibility. It is clear in Scripture that even where actual possession of the body does not take place, evil spirits still wield influence upon the minds of men. This is the case with the enticing spirit sent to persuade king Ahab through his prophets in 1 Kings 22 and 2 Chronicles 18, and it is likewise the case in 1 Timothy 4 where we find men being persuaded to follow the demonic teaching of these spirits. In both cases, whether or not there was prior sin involved, it is clear that deceptive spirits have the ability to influence men's thoughts and decisions.

There is a great little book written by Joel Beeke, which I read awhile back, entitled _Striving Against Satan_. If anybody is interested in getting a sound perspective on these issues, I'd recommend it to them for study.


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## bwsmith (Apr 18, 2007)

We live in times where the daily “tides” are revealing the foundations upon which many of us have built – Matthew 7:24-29. As terrifying and real as God’s ancient enemy is, Satan is his reluctant servant. And I rest on Christ’s promise that greater is HE who in me than he who is in the world! 

Moreover: 
“What may not be widely known is that Lucifer was already defeated the moment he sinned. He was defeated strategically, since as one of God’s creatures he would be forced to depend upon God for his continued existence. Any power he would exercise would always be subject to God’s will and decree . . . Let us boldly affirm that whatever mischief Satan is allowed to do, it is always appointed by God for the ultimate service and benefit to the saints. 

William Gurnall, after encouraging believers to hold fast to the assurance that God is watching Satan’s every move and will not let him have the final victory, writes, ‘When God says STAY! [Satan] must stand like a dog by the table while the saints feast on God’s comfort. He does not dare to snatch even a tidbit, for the Master’s eye is always upon him.’ . . . We must never see Satan without seeing God ” (The Serpent of Paradise: The Incredible Story of How Satan’s Rebellion Serves God’s Purposes by Erwin W. Lutzer, Moody Press Chicago 1996 pages 13-14, 22)​

I pray for the families whose arms are forever empty of their loved ones’ embraces; bereft of their wisdom, love and care – I look at my children’s pictures, and cannot imagine their depth of painful loss – and I pray for the parents and family of the man who was so profoundly troubled!

We may never know what happened, or why – I am reminded of what Christ said when a tower collapsed: Luke 13:1-5 – . . . "Or do you suppose that those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, were worse culprits than all the men who live in Jerusalem? 
"I tell you, no, but unless you repent, you will all likewise perish." 

If there is stuff in my life that needs to go, then God, please take it away for your glory and my good.


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## Davidius (Apr 18, 2007)

Archlute said:


> This is untrue. I think that our post-enlightenment society, including the Christians who live within it, have a difficult time believing in the activity of demons, even when we affirm that the bible speaks of them. I'm not saying that this particular man had a spirit, or was influenced by a spirit for sure, but we do have to allow it as a possibility. It is clear in Scripture that even where actual possession of the body does not take place, evil spirits still wield influence upon the minds of men. This is the case with the enticing spirit sent to persuade king Ahab through his prophets in 1 Kings 22 and 2 Chronicles 18, and it is likewise the case in 1 Timothy 4 where we find men being persuaded to follow the demonic teaching of these spirits. In both cases, whether or not there was prior sin involved, it is clear that deceptive spirits have the ability to influence men's thoughts and decisions.



Would you not say there is a difference in being deceived and actually committing the action? I don't think what I said left out that possibility. There is a difference in having one's thoughts and decisions influenced, and a person being actually _forced_ by a demon to do something. That's the point I was trying to make. This man is responsible for what he did, whether or not he was influenced by a demon, just like people are responsible for their sins even if influenced by humans.


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## Tom Roach (Apr 22, 2007)

Well, some force _drove_ Cho Seung-Hui to avenge both specific people and those who got caught in the way of his rage. This force was obviously the work of Satan. For man to follow through with the sin in his mind is proof that Satan takes over. That is, evil thoughts turning to evil actions. I, in my very limited knowledge on the topic, would guess that demonic possession was very likely.


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## Timothy William (Apr 22, 2007)

The shooter in this incident reminds me of myself at age 13-15. There but for the grace of God go I. I don't think I was ever quite as isolated as he was, though I was bullied fairly consistently for a good decade of my schooling. I do see some reason why he was like he was, and I am not sure he would have required any special diabolical intervention to act the way he did. My whole mindset could have turned in that direction without any extra extrinsic prompting beyond my own circumstances and imagination, and looking back I think I was at that age the beneficiary of large amounts of common grace, as well as perhaps what in later years became particular saving grace. But certainly with access to firearms, and bad enough circumstances, I can see how the mind of a normal person could turn like that.


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## JonathanHunt (Apr 22, 2007)

I was very interested in how this young man rejected the Christian faith of his parents, but clearly decried the immorality on campus. Where he get the moral outrage from, huh?

Man is without excuse. Man knows the truth. Man rejects it.


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## bookslover (Apr 23, 2007)

Blue Tick said:


> How do we explain the massacre that has happened in Virginia?
> 
> Was this man demon possessed? Does demon possession even happen today?
> Or did God just give this man over to the lusts of his depravity?
> ...



An article in the _Los Angeles Times_ suggests that he couldn't take the strain of feeling like he was straddling both Korean and American cultures.

That doesn't even come close to excusing what he did, of course, but it might have been a contributing factor.


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