# WCF and Permanence View of Marriage



## pslagle2012 (Dec 1, 2016)

I'm a Reformed Baptist who is close to changing to Presbyterian. As I have gone through that process I have been studying the WCF more. I was disappointed to read it's perspective on divorce as I hold to the permanence view. My question is, how strict is the PCA on that for church membership and ordination (as my desire is to eventually go into the ministry, if the Lord wills)? Is there any wriggle room?

If the PCA is firm on it, are there other Reformed denominations that might be more flexible or officially hold to the permanence view? (Notice my aim is informational, not for debate).


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## arapahoepark (Dec 1, 2016)

You can take numerous exceptions it seems in the PCA unlike the OPC. That is why many on the board are dismayed with PCA. Loosening confessional reigns, the PCA has drifted toward broad evangelicalism that happens to baptize babies.

To answer your question on the divorce issue, I am not sure.


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## zsmcd (Dec 1, 2016)

It wouldn't affect membership at all.

As far as ordination, it most likely depends on what presbytery you are part of.


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## Contra_Mundum (Dec 1, 2016)

The Protestant Reformed Church has what might be termed a "permanence" view.

Just knowing what groups happen to officially maintain some tightly defined position does not "solve" for finding out where you "fit in." The PRC is filled with wonderful people; I happen to be friendly with many of them. However, as a denomination they have a very specific culture, a purebred theological DNA. As such, it takes a special kind of "fit" to find a home there. It can take years to become one-of-them, regardless of explicit and implicit agreement on doctrine and practice.

It isn't just true for the PRC; but is the case everywhere, though especially for smaller groups with more non-negotiable particularities. Even the OPC has a culture, its own "flavor." Part of belonging to a church is learning the ropes there, learning to love a place and a culture, warts and all. Vital doctrine is a necessary beginning, like a marriage requires an original and essential compatibility and commitment. Toleration of differences on secondary matters is where you find out what people really believe is bearable.

You asked about the PCA. The PCA's doctrinal Standards (dated primarily from the 17th century) express the doctrine of marriage held in common for the denomination as a whole; these views go back to the Reformation itself. The LBC-1689 leaves the matter of divorce out of her public confession respecting marriage (see http://www.proginosko.com/docs/wcf_lbcf.html ch24/25) thereby opening a wider channel for disparate interpretation of the biblical data not running up against subscribed affirmations.


Pew-sitting members of the PCA are not required to confess formally the church's doctrines; I don't think any church wants an agitator for contrary views, but those who consent to sit under the ministry are not condemned.

If a man expresses interest in a minister's (or elder's/deacon's) call he would make known his departure from the church's confession regarding the Bible's teaching on any defined topic; and this would include marriage&divorce. Then, the church could weigh that departure, to see if they could live with an officer who took a more rigid stance than they saw the Bible allowed.


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## pslagle2012 (Dec 1, 2016)

Contra_Mundum said:


> The Protestant Reformed Church has what might be termed a "permanence" view.
> 
> Just knowing what groups happen to officially maintain some tightly defined position does not "solve" for finding out where you "fit in." The PRC is filled with wonderful people; I happen to be friendly with many of them. However, as a denomination they have a very specific culture, a purebred theological DNA. As such, it takes a special kind of "fit" to find a home there. It can take years to become one-of-them, regardless of explicit and implicit agreement on doctrine and practice.
> 
> ...



I definitely understand, there is a lot more to deciding what "brand" of Presbyterianism I might align myself with. Thank you for the reminder.

I have heard that the PRC was hyper-calvinistic. Do you think that's true?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 1, 2016)

pslagle2012 said:


> I have heard that the PRC was hyper-calvinistic. Do you think that's true?



The PRCA is not hyper-Calvinist, but rejects what is known as the well-meant offer and common grace. They are more accurately described as high Calvinists as opposed to the moderate Calvinism espoused in the OPC's majority report on that question. 

If you genuinely seek to become a minister in a confessional Presbyterian church, then I suggest that you seek to bring your thinking - as far as you can in good conscience - into conformity with that church's confession rather than looking for loopholes. R. Scott Clark has a useful series of podcasts on the Covenant of Works, which also addresses the issue of confessional conscription. That series might be forth listening to, especially for someone in your situation.

Also, I think someone in the midst of transitioning from Baptist to Reformed should set aside thoughts of the ministry for several years, as the eldership is not for novices.


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## Dachaser (Dec 1, 2016)

Know that in our church, we take the mandate of Paul on Elders/Pastors strictly, and that the best option is stay married until death, but would also allow for what would be seen asa divorce "permitted" by scriptures, such as neither saved when married, he became Christian, Wife decided to leave due tthat for example. Those exceptions are handled case by case...


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## Pilgrim (Dec 1, 2016)

Contra_Mundum said:


> If a man expresses interest in a minister's (or elder's/deacon's) call he would make known his departure from the church's confession regarding the Bible's teaching on any defined topic; and this would include marriage&divorce. Then, the church could weigh that departure, to see if they could live with an officer who took a more rigid stance than they saw the Bible allowed.



The elder who strongly believes in the permanence view would seek to discipline members who run afoul of that, wouldn't he? I would think that would be what the presbytery (or session) would want to know. From what I've observed through the years, a session enforcing the permanence view would be almost impossible in a denomination that affirms a confession which allows you to divorce for adultery and abandonment. Even if a whole session agreed with the permanence view, the case could be appealed to Presbytery and it would be overturned if the divorce was deemed to be in accord with the confessional teaching.


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## Edward (Dec 1, 2016)

pslagle2012 said:


> My question is, how strict is the PCA on that for church membership and ordination



If you are interested in the PCA's views on Divorce and Re-marriage, I would commend to your attention the 1992 report on that subject linked from this page: http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/ (in digestible bites in Doc and PDF form) or the whole thing in PDF here http://www.pcahistory.org/pca/divorce-remarriage.pdf 
See also the brief materials from 1979


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## mgkortus (Dec 1, 2016)

Contra_Mundum said:


> The Protestant Reformed Church has what might be termed a "permanence" view.



I know that Rev. Buchanan has no intentions of misrepresenting the PRC, but just to be clear: the PRC maintains that adultery is grounds for divorce. However, they do not allow for remarriage, even of the innocent party. 



pslagle2012 said:


> I have heard that the PRC was hyper-calvinistic. Do you think that's true?



Definitely not hyper-calvinists. We affirm that the gospel is to be preached promiscuously to both elect and reprobate alike. Thus, the preaching addresses both unbelievers and unbelief. In addition, the preaching calls all who hear it to repent and to believe in Jesus Christ.


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