# Prayers for the dead.



## Quickened (Feb 20, 2011)

I am having a brainfart. I thought i remember Paul mentioning something about not praying for the dead.

But i cant seem to locate it through searching on esword. Could someone point me to the right direction 

Maybe i am mistaken. I appreciate the help. If this is in the wrong area feel free to move it


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## jambo (Feb 20, 2011)

I think you maybe confusing it with being baptised for the dead (1 Cor 15.29)


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## Michael (Feb 20, 2011)

Not by Paul's hand but this may help.

WCF 21:4 Prayer is to be made for things lawful; and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter: *but not for the dead*, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.​
The scripture proofs for "but not for the dead" are as follows...

2Sam 12:21 Then said his servants unto him, What thing is this that thou hast done? thou didst fast and weep for the child, while it was alive; but when the child was dead, thou didst rise and eat bread. 22 And he said, While the child was yet alive, I fasted and wept: for I said, Who can tell whether God will be gracious to me, that the child may live? 23 But now he is dead, wherefore should I fast? can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he shall not return to me. 

Luke 16:25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented. 26 And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence. 

Rev 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.​


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## Quickened (Feb 20, 2011)

jambo said:


> I think you maybe confusing it with being baptised for the dead (1 Cor 15.29)


 
I am starting to think you are correct. I wanted to address someone who prays for the dead scriptually. But nothing was really coming together this morning.

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Michael said:


> Not by Paul's hand but this may help.
> 
> WCF 21:4 Prayer is to be made for things lawful; and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter: *but not for the dead*, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.​
> The scripture proofs for "but not for the dead" are as follows...
> ...


 
Thanks for these scriptures. It will give me something to think about as i prepare to type up something.

Do any other verses spring to your mind regarding the topic? I have some ideas but am looking for additional feedback.

Thanks again guys!


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## Skyler (Feb 20, 2011)

I guess it depends on what you mean by praying for the dead. Do you mean praying for their salvation? Praying for them to make their way through purgatory faster? Praying that they will enjoy the riches of Heaven?

The last option seems, from what I understand, to have been not uncommon in the practice of the church and I don't think it's unbiblical. The former two presume unbiblical doctrine--that one can be saved after death and that one goes through purgatory after death, respectively.


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## Jack K (Feb 20, 2011)

I agree that what you pray makes a difference.

Just this morning, a 9-year-old in my Sunday school class asked that we pray for his great-grandmother who died this week. I ask _what_ he wanted us to pray for her. He said his family wasn't sure if she was a believer, and he wanted to pray that indeed she was saved.

What would you say to this kid?

I saw a kid with a heart for his great-grandmother and her salvation, a faith that her salvation was in God's hands, and a belief that God is unlimited by the confines of time so that our prayer today can ask God to be at work last week. So we went ahead and prayed. But I decided I would lead, and I was careful not to pray that God would save her today in spite of her status at death. Instead, I told God how it was our desire and hope that he had brought her to faith before she died. And wanting to steer clear of error, I didn't directly ask God for anything.

I think that was the right call, or at least close. Was it?


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## Phil D. (Feb 20, 2011)

I think you handled the situation just right, Jack.


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## dudley (Feb 21, 2011)

Michael said:


> Not by Paul's hand but this may help.
> 
> WCF 21:4 Prayer is to be made for things lawful; and for all sorts of men living, or that shall live hereafter: *but not for the dead*, nor for those of whom it may be known that they have sinned the sin unto death.​
> The scripture proofs for "but not for the dead" are as follows...
> ...



Quickened you are from your biography an ex Roman catholic as I was. I see you are now a Baptist, I am now a Presbyterian. We are both however now Reformed Protestants and all Reformed Protestants would agree we do not pray for the dead. You are as I am what I would call a recovery catholic, the false teachings of that church will always creep into your thinking , you have to work at knowing the truth.

The Roman Catholics pray for the dead because of the false and un biblical Roman catholic teaching of purgatory and other false reasoning. I will pray that God guides you to a true Protestant Conversion as I believe I experienced and only by Gods grace and my desire to learn and know the true Gospel and the true plan for salivation. Read the Reformed Confessions and talk to your pastor about this so he can explain it to you personally. Michael s statement above is accurate and what we believe as Reformed Protestants with the biblical evidence. I concur with Michaels statement above completely.


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## sevenzedek (Mar 21, 2011)

Brian,

Could it be that your brain was trying to remember 1 John 5:16-17?

16 If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask, and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death. There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that. 17 All unrighteousness is sin, and there is sin not leading to death. 
1 John 5:16-17 (NKJV)



Jack,

Wow! You know, God wants us to be ready in season and out of season (2 Timothy 4:2). I guess you were ready.


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## baron (Mar 21, 2011)

Praying for the dead according to Roman Catholics comes from Apocrypha 2 Maccabes 12:38-45. I was told before that they also take it from 2Tim. but not sure of the verses they use.


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## Andres (Mar 22, 2011)

Jack K said:


> I agree that what you pray makes a difference.
> 
> Just this morning, a 9-year-old in my Sunday school class asked that we pray for his great-grandmother who died this week. I ask _what_ he wanted us to pray for her. He said his family wasn't sure if she was a believer, and he wanted to pray that indeed she was saved.
> 
> ...


 
Jack, I think the young man was asking in a roundabout way for comfort for him and his family during their time of grieving. I would pray for that - comfort for him and his family. I would pray that God is in control and that He will be glorified in the grandmother's death. I would pray that although the family is hurting right now because they miss their loved one, that they would find peace and hope in their faith in Christ knowing that He loves them and will take care of them. Of course, one would probably seek to word the prayer more on the level of a 9 year old's understanding. Also this might be a good time to reinforce the fact that it is imperative that we trust Christ alone to save us and outside of Him there is no hope.


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## Jack K (Mar 22, 2011)

Andres said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> > I agree that what you pray makes a difference.
> ...


 
Yes. All that would have been good. And I agree the kid was seeking some comfort. But I also try not to redirect prayer requests to my own, "better" prayer ideas too often. In this case the kid specifically asked that we pray about her salvation. So if it was possible to do that properly, I wanted to honor that request even though it was a tricky situation.


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