# Jesus Loves You



## Solo Christo (Aug 3, 2005)

Jesus loves me, this I know. He is the glorious friend of sinners such as myself (Matt 11:19, Luke 7:34).

That said, I personally was first pierced by the gospel when I came face to face with my sinful nature and the dire need of repentance. Upon studying scripture and the early church through the reformation, I find that evangelism also mainly consisted of a call to repentance and submission.

My question is two fold:

1. When and how did "Jesus loves you" become the predominant message of church evangelism?

2. Has this done more harm than good?


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## Arch2k (Aug 3, 2005)

I would say that this phrase overall has done more harm than good in evangelism. Without God hates you (i.e. you're on your way to hell)....Jesus loves you (the gospel) means nothing.

Most of the time, it seems like the phrase "Jesus loves you" takes on the meaning "Jesus loves you *just the way you are.*"


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 3, 2005)

"Jesus loves you" is a long way from "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" and is probably based on the Arminian interpretation of John 3.16.


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## Arch2k (Aug 3, 2005)




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## BobVigneault (Aug 3, 2005)

I want to put a lot of the blame on Charles Finney. He was definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing and undermined several of the orthodox doctrines and how the gospel is preached. Bill Bright certainly did his part in popularizing the universal love aspect.

Here's Finney explaining why he said he subscribed to the WCF:

"Unexpectedly to myself they asked me if I received the Confession of faith of the Presbyterian church. I had not examined it;"”that is, the large work, containing the Catechisms and Presbyterian Confession. This had made no part of my study. I replied that I received it for substance of doctrine, so far as I understood it. But I spoke in a way that plainly implied, I think, that I did not pretend to know much about it. However, I answered honestly, as I understood it at the time [Charles Finney, The Memoirs of Charles Finney: The Complete Restored Text (Grand Rapids: Academie, 1989), 53-54]."


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## heartoflesh (Aug 3, 2005)

So, am I allowed to tell my kids that Jesus loves them?


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## heartoflesh (Aug 3, 2005)

What....not even a thread in the Baptism forum you can link me to?


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## cupotea (Aug 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> Most of the time, it seems like the phrase "Jesus loves you" takes on the meaning "Jesus loves you *just the way you are.*"



Yeah, the problem with the expression is the way people interpret it; they get a false confidence and cast away humility.


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## raderag (Aug 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by maxdetail_
> I want to put a lot of the blame on Charles Finney. He was definitely a wolf in sheep's clothing and undermined several of the orthodox doctrines and how the gospel is preached. Bill Bright certainly did his part in popularizing the universal love aspect.



I think he was a wolf in wolves clothing.


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## Arch2k (Aug 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Rick Larson_
> So, am I allowed to tell my kids that Jesus loves them?



bump

I am curious as to people's answer's to this.


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## sastark (Aug 4, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Rick Larson_
> ...



If Jesus does in fact love them, then yes. 

"Elect infants, dying in infancy....." You know the rest. If your children are elect, then Jesus loves them and it is ok for you to tell them that Jesus loves them.

So, I guess the question comes down to: do you presume that your children are elect?


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## cupotea (Aug 4, 2005)

I don't quite understand what you guys are saying. Do you really think that Jesus doesn't love everybody?


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## cupotea (Aug 4, 2005)

Here's the verse I was thinking of:

"He saw the city and wept over it, saying, 'If you had known, even you, especially in this your day, the things that make for your peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes..." Luke 19:41-42


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## alwaysreforming (Aug 4, 2005)

Jesus didn't seem to love some of the pharisees He came in contact with.

And when He comes to judge His enemies, it doesn't seem that "He loves them so much He just has to kill them."

There are several places where the Bible speaks of God "hating" the wicked, His enemies. Does God at the same time "love" these same? I don't see how that's possible.

I think telling people, "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" is a TERRIBLE misrepresentation. If it were true, that person might as well just go away, fold his hands, and rest comfortably till his end of days 'cause he's got it made. If God "loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" then there's no reason to repent and change, and be reconciled to a God who is too Holy to look upon evil.


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## cupotea (Aug 4, 2005)

I've always understood that Jesus loves people but hates the sin itself. Wow, that sounds really corny!


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## alwaysreforming (Aug 4, 2005)

Just call me "Andrew Jr." :bigsmile:

(Deu 32:41) when I sharpen My flashing sword, and My hand takes hold of judgment, I will take vengeance on My adversaries and repay those who hate Me.


(Psa 5:5) The boastful cannot stand in Your presence; You hate all evildoers.

(Psa 26:5) I hate a crowd of evildoers, and I do not sit with the wicked.

(Psa 31:6) I hate those who are devoted to worthless idols, but I trust in the LORD.


(Psa 45:7) You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has anointed you, more than your companions, with the oil of joy.

(Psa 119:113) I hate the double-minded, but I love Your instruction.

(Psa 139:21) LORD, don't I hate those who hate You, and detest those who rebel against You?

(Psa 139:22) I hate them with extreme hatred; I consider them my enemies.

(Isa 61:8) For I the LORD love justice; I hate robbery and injustice; I will faithfully reward them and make an everlasting covenant with them.

(Jer 12:8) My inheritance has acted toward Me like a lion in the forest. She has roared against Me. Therefore, I hate her.

(Hos 9:15) All their evil appears at Gilgal, for there I came to hate them. I will drive them from My house because of their evil, wicked actions. I will no longer love them; all their leaders are rebellious.

(Amo 5:10) They hate the one who convicts the guilty at the city gate and despise the one who speaks with integrity.


(Amo 6:8) The Lord GOD has sworn by Himself--the declaration of Yahweh, the God of Hosts: I loathe Jacob's pride and hate his citadels, so I will hand over the city and everything in it.

(Mic 3:2) You hate good and love evil. You tear off the skin of people and strip their flesh from their bones.


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## strangerpilgrim (Aug 5, 2005)

The number one problem with the "Jesus loves you" form of evangelism is it takes the focus off where it should be. It should be on God, His holiness, His nature, His law, His rights and His glory. Instead it has become primarily about man, "His" needs, "His" problems, "His" future. If that focus is off, it is like driving your car at 70 miles an hour with the wheel turned slightly askew. At first, you'll continue moving pretty much forward, but as time goes by you'll drift farther and farther across and then off the road until you smash into something. 

I recently read a quote in an excellant workbook "Calvinism, Hyper-Calvinism and Arminianism," the author's name I cannot recall at this time. He said something to the effect that "There is no stopoff between Calvinism and hell." He went on to explain that all churches that compromise on the issues of God's sovreignty, election, etc, and turn Arminian (which is where the "Jesus loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life if you'll only let Him in, and then agree to the plan yourself and cooperate with Him and otherwise He's just kind of standing around forlornly knocking hoping someone will answer and all His great plans will turn out OK" garbage came from ) eventually turn to full heresy. It may take a while, but the conclusion in inevitable because they have focused on the wrong thing and stripped God of His right as the author and finisher of our faith.

[Edited on 8-5-2005 by strangerpilgrim]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by alwaysreforming_
> Just call me "Andrew Jr." :bigsmile:


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## heartoflesh (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> So, I guess the question comes down to: do you presume that your children are elect?



On what basis do we presume this? If they are the children of believers?


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## Arch2k (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by strangerpilgrim_
> I recently read a quote in an excellant workbook "Calvinism, Hyper-Calvinism and Arminianism," the author's name I cannot recall at this time.



Kenneth Talbot with Gary Crampton I believe are the authors of this book. Kenneth is president of Whitefield Theological Seminary.


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## BobVigneault (Aug 5, 2005)

Technically I don't think it's right to tell our children that Jesus loves them. However, that are plenty of other ways to teach our kids about God's beneficence. 

We remind our children that God is sovereign and as covenant children we enjoy many blessings and benefits of being in the covenant. God supplies our daily bread, He protects and He sustains us. We teach them about the immeasurable love for the elect that God demonstrated in sending His son to die. We teach them all the aspects of God's great love and then leave it to the Holy Spirit to apply His love to them individually.


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