# Van Til Covenant of Works?



## RamistThomist (Jul 6, 2017)

Did Van Til address the Covenant of Works? I am curious because of his proximity to the Shepherd controversy and the influence of Schilder, the latter having held the CoW in reserve.


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## Guido's Brother (Jul 6, 2017)

I'm not sure if CVT ever used the exact terminology "covenant of works," but the idea is certainly there in his writings. He constantly writes of unbelieving human beings being "covenant-breakers." Not having been in the covenant of grace, that can only mean one thing.

Since CVT's biggest influence is Herman Bavinck, it shouldn't be a surprise to find him referring to a pre-fall covenant with Adam just as Bavinck did.

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## greenbaggins (Jul 6, 2017)

Van Til was quite elderly during the Shepherd controversy. It has been suggested by people who witnessed it that VT might not have been at his sharpest in terms of really knowing what was going on. He had been overheard to say, for instance, that "Shepherd was right because Bill Bright is wrong." Also, because I think VT trusted Gaffin at the time, that is probably why he supported Shepherd. Gaffin, of course, was a close friend of Shepherd, and therefore has only gradually come to see the problems in Shepherd's theology. Plus, Gaffin is not a controversialist. I don't see any trace of Schilder in VT. I agree that Bavinck and Vos are the greatest influences in VT's theology.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 7, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Van Til was quite elderly during the Shepherd controversy. It has been suggested by people who witnessed it that VT might not have been at his sharpest in terms of really knowing what was going on. He had been overheard to say, for instance, that "Shepherd was right because Bill Bright is wrong." Also, because I think VT trusted Gaffin at the time, that is probably why he supported Shepherd. Gaffin, of course, was a close friend of Shepherd, and therefore has only gradually come to see the problems in Shepherd's theology. Plus, Gaffin is not a controversialist. I don't see any trace of Schilder in VT. I agree that Bavinck and Vos are the greatest influences in VT's theology.



He follows Schilder on culture in _Common Grace and the Gospel_, but criticizes him at points. Schilder's emphasis on "thinking concretely" received praise from VT.

I am fairly familiar with the Shepherd timeline. Just wondering if VT mentioned CoW in writing.


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## Dachaser (Jul 7, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> Van Til was quite elderly during the Shepherd controversy. It has been suggested by people who witnessed it that VT might not have been at his sharpest in terms of really knowing what was going on. He had been overheard to say, for instance, that "Shepherd was right because Bill Bright is wrong." Also, because I think VT trusted Gaffin at the time, that is probably why he supported Shepherd. Gaffin, of course, was a close friend of Shepherd, and therefore has only gradually come to see the problems in Shepherd's theology. Plus, Gaffin is not a controversialist. I don't see any trace of Schilder in VT. I agree that Bavinck and Vos are the greatest influences in VT's theology.


What was the Shepherd issue?


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## RamistThomist (Jul 7, 2017)

https://banneroftruth.org/us/resour...-by-faith-in-the-theology-of-norman-shepherd/

http://www.etsjets.org/node/3414

http://theaquilareport.com/edmund-clowney-on-norman-shepherds-controversial-distinctive-theology/


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## greenbaggins (Jul 8, 2017)

In addition to the fine resources Jacob has linked, O. Palmer Robertson's book _The Current Justification Controversy_ is a good, concise, but accurate representation of what happened.

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## Dachaser (Jul 8, 2017)

greenbaggins said:


> In addition to the fine resources Jacob has linked, O. Palmer Robertson's book _The Current Justification Controversy_ is a good, concise, but accurate representation of what happened.


Reading through those links the Brother provided, what struck me, was that how much that dispute among Reformed mirrored to a large extent the discussions revolving around Lordship salvation that broke out among Baptists.


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## arapahoepark (Jul 9, 2017)

Dachaser said:


> Reading through those links the Brother provided, what struck me, was that how much that dispute among Reformed mirrored to a large extent the discussions revolving around Lordship salvation that broke out among Baptists.


Sort of. Lordship controversy is between true Gospel believers and true antinomians. The antinomians (or some of those accused by Shepherd, et al. are not antinomians at all just like legalists or proto-Fv).


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## Dachaser (Jul 11, 2017)

arapahoepark said:


> Sort of. Lordship controversy is between true Gospel believers and true antinomians. The antinomians (or some of those accused by Shepherd, et al. are not antinomians at all just like legalists or proto-Fv).


The Big problem with Baptist circles regarding the Lordship issue was that neither side was really accepting what was held and believed, as those holding to Lordship saw "easy believism" on other side, and those on other side saw the Lordship ones advocating a kind of Christian legalism.


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