# Some questions about John MacArthur.



## etexas

Firstly I the silly Anglican, know nothing about the man. I have seen that some Reformed people think he has some good ideas, some think he is a theological mixed bag, some downright will not touch his stuff. So, help me here (edumacate me  ) , what is he all about? What about him draws so many mixed thoughts in the Reformed community? Anything you could tell me would be great, even if it is just enough to get a general consensus. Grace and Peace.


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## etexas

anyone.........chirp,chirp,chirp.


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## Bladestunner316

Yeah minus his dispensationalism MacArthur is a Godly preacher!!


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## Blueridge Believer

Listen to John every morning online before work. Here's the link:

GRACE TO YOU


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## MrMerlin777

Yes MacArthur is a "theological mixed bag". Aptly put. I listen to him on the radio durring my morning drive to work. I disagree with his Progressive Dispensationalism. But otherwise I think his exposition is pretty good.


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## Augusta

Hey Don which station and what time? I am in the car alot and wouldn't mind checking him out. tx


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## MrMerlin777

Augusta said:


> Hey Don which station and what time? I am in the car alot and wouldn't mind checking him out. tx



820 AM on the radio dial I believe. Around 10:30. I'm usually driving into work around that time.


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## Augusta

Thanks, it's good to hear that someone reformed is on that station. Most of the stuff I hear on there is just eye-rolling.


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## etexas

joshua said:


> MacArthur is an excellent expositional preacher, a solid upholder of the doctrines of God's sovereign grace, and a cooler older man to boot. However, his eschatology is dispensational, which is highly unreformed. That being said, though, I do not find him to be antinomian like Dispensationalists tend to be. He is one of my favorite preachers.


My mother uses his Study Bible, anything I should be concerned about? How does he "thread" classical elements like Sovereign Grace and certain Dispensational views. For those who answer the first part of this question(or both) I would have you know that I will not try to take my Mother's Bible away!!!   I am a good Southern Boy after all.


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## BlackCalvinist

Actually, his view is not progressive dispensationalism, but normative dispensationalism. (remember there are several 'periods' of dispensational thought between 1830 and now.... MacArthur would reject many of the older dispensationalists). 

Pound for pound, MacArthur is probably THE best expositional preacher in print and on the air. You want thorough exegesis ?

Take a look through his series on the Lord's prayer:
http://www.biblebb.com/brefindex/mat.htm

It gets re-broadcast on Grace to You every once and again and the Bible Bulletin Board has most of his older sermons transcribed.


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## etexas

BlackCalvinist said:


> Actually, his view is not progressive dispensationalism, but normative dispensationalism. (remember there are several 'periods' of dispensational thought between 1830 and now.... MacArthur would reject many of the older dispensationalists).
> 
> Pound for pound, MacArthur is probably THE best expositional preacher in print and on the air. You want thorough exegesis ?
> 
> Take a look through his series on the Lord's prayer:
> http://www.biblebb.com/brefindex/mat.htm
> 
> It gets re-broadcast on Grace to You every once and again and the Bible Bulletin Board has most of his older sermons transcribed.


Thanks for the link.


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## Herald

MacArthur was a catalyst in the Lordship Salvation debates of the late 1980's through today. His book, "The Gospel According to Jesus" put him at odds with Charles Ryrie and Dave Hunt. That alone should make us like the man!


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## BlackCalvinist

And one of MacArthur's disciples - C. Ryan Jenkins of _Sola Gratia Ministries_, completed his Masters' thesis on _Lordship Salvation and Pastoral Counseling_. Probably the most EXHAUSTIVE read on the subject in print - period. CRJ was nice enough to mail me a copy for study back in 04 when I was preparing to debate Bob Wilkin of the Grace Evangelical Society.

I really REALLY think he needs to put this in popular format. 

So MacArthur's ministry through his church and Masters is bearing good fruit.


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## etexas

BaptistInCrisis said:


> MacArthur was a catalyst in the Lordship Salvation debates of the late 1980's through today. His book, "The Gospel According to Jesus" put him at odds with Charles Ryrie and Dave Hunt. That alone should make us like the man!


You know.......I was not a Churchman at that point in my life but I have heard about some of that stuff with him and Ryrie..........what was that about.....in a simple nutshell.(Remember you are talking to an Anglican...our idea of deep is when to cross ourselves...


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## Herald

I follow Jesus said:


> You know.......I was not a Churchman at that point in my life but I have heard about some of that stuff with him and Ryrie..........what was that about.....in a simple nutshell.(Remember you are talking to an Anglican...our idea of deep is when to cross ourselves...



Ryrie authored a best-selling study bible in the early 1980's. He was as leading proponent of what is called "free grace." Actually it is a euphenism for antinomianism. MacArthur came out against Ryrie's position with his book, "The Gospel According to Jesus." The result was nothing less than a firestorm. MacArthur was removed from many Christian radio stations. He was disinvited from the dispensational bible insititute I attended, the *Word of Life Bible Institute.* To be fair, Ryrie was only one cog in the antinomian wheel, but he was one of the best known.


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## etexas

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Ryrie authored a best-selling study bible in the early 1980's. He was as leading proponent of what is called "free grace." Actually it is a euphenism for antinomianism. MacArthur came out against Ryrie's position with his book, "The Gospel According to Jesus." The result was nothing less than a firestorm. MacArthur was removed from many Christian radio stations. He was disinvited from the dispensational bible insititute I attended, the *Word of Life Bible Institute.* To be fair, Ryrie was only one cog in the antinomian wheel, but he was one of the best known.


That must have been brutal! So both these guys "slugged it out", was there vindication in terms of opinion for his stance after all this? (MacArthur's that is).


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## Bob Hanks

MacArthur's dispensationalism is really bare bones. To him ,dispensationalism is simply two facts -- Israel and the Church are distinct and seperate , and there is a future for the nation of Israel.

He laments in his book " The Gospel According to Jesus " all the non-lordship soteriology that resides in the dispensational camp. His view of salvation is very solid , and he is an outstanding expositional teacher. Check him out at www.gty.org 

If you can't tell ..... I'm a BIG fan !

Bob Hanks


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## etexas

Bob Hanks said:


> MacArthur's dispensationalism is really bare bones. To him ,dispensationalism is simply two facts -- Israel and the Church are distinct and seperate , and there is a future for the nation of Israel.
> 
> He laments in his book " The Gospel According to Jesus " all the non-lordship soteriology that resides in the dispensational camp. His view of salvation is very solid , and he is an outstanding expositional teacher. Check him out at www.gty.org
> 
> If you can't tell ..... I'm a BIG fan !
> 
> Bob Hanks


I will do that.....Texas brother!!!!!!!!!


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## Herald

I follow Jesus said:


> That must have been brutal! So both these guys "slugged it out", was there vindication in terms of opinion for his stance after all this? (MacArthur's that is).



Max, they "slugged it out" in writing. Ryrie wrote a rebuttal to, "The Gospel According to Jesus" entitled, "So Great Salvation." I don't believe they actually debated in person, although I could be wrong. There is still a sharp divide on the Lordship Salvation issue, although I believe MacArthur's opinion is the majority.


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## BlackCalvinist

Hodges had originally responded to MacArthur right behind Ryrie with his book _Absolutely Free!_ (Hodges and Ryrie were both professors at Dallas Theological Seminary at the time). 

MacArthur has since (1993) revised and expanded 'The Gospel According to Jesus' (after some convos with Michael Horton, which have helped MacArthur to start sounding more 'reformed' in his way of communicating salvation and the gospel) and wrote a response to both Zane Hodges and Charles Ryrie called 'Faith Works: The Gospel According to the Apostles'. He has also, since that time, written a third book which deals with the same topic as well as related ones called 'Hard to Believe' (based off of Luke 9:23-26).

In the 'free grace' camp - there's two kinds of free gracers:

Moderate Free Grace (like Ryrie) who believe that a true Christian will 'eventually' at some point in their Christian life bear fruit, but not immediately and not always visibly. Repentance is simply a change of mind, not a change of lifestyle.

Radical Free Grace (Zane Hodges) who said that bearing fruit is not a *guaranteed* part of true conversion, repentance is a change of lifestyle, but is not part of the gospel and any attempts to add it to the gospel constitute works-righteousness. 

My experience has been, of course, that the free gracers in both camps (especially the radicals) rely on unbiblical presuppositions and pit one passage or verse (or whole books) against the rest of the Bible (i.e.- John's gospel is the only explicitly evangelistic one, since the end of the book tells us this is its' purpose, and since it doesn't mention repentance, it 'trumps' all the other gospels' mentions of repentance). Shoddy exegesis to hold to unbiblical viewpoints. And where one heresy is present, many more may not be far behind.....



Bill is right, though. The sharp divide in the Dispensational camp still remains. It can be seen in the debate back in the late 90's between Bob Wilkin and Darrel Bock (Progressive Dispensationalist and professor @ DTS) in their debate:
http://www.faithalone.org/resources/debate.pdf


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## Maestroh

*Allow Me To Comment On This*

I hope some of you will take the time to read this and consider what I have to say. It will probably be long-winded, but I hope to provide a lot of good information on John Mac Arthur.

In the interest of full disclosure - for those who do not already know - I am presently attending Dallas Theological Seminary, home of the 'non-lordship salvation.' Actually, that is an incredibly unfair characterization.

The lordship/cheap grace, er, free grace (ok, now you know where I'm coming from) debate is old hat. It's also popping up again. So let me sort of spell out what I know.

Zane Hodges was a professor at DTS from 1959 to 1986. He was a Greek scholar who actually has his name on the Hodges-Farstad Majority Text and one of his articles was published in some of the KJVO literature back in the 1970s (one of Fuller's books, can't remember which one - "Which Bible" I think). He wrote a book called "The Gospel Under Siege." Charles Ryrie had put out a very popular study Bible that you can still get. He took a slightly more modified approach than Hodges - allowing more room for repentance - but still taught the 'no lordship view.' What do I mean?

These guys, in essence, think you can 'buy fire insurance' and cash in when you die. You receive Christ ONLY as Savior but NOT as Lord to whom you submit. That comes later - maybe or maybe not at all. But they so over-dispensationalize Jesus' ministry that they turn it primarily into Jesus calling already saved people to 'become disciples.' Their two most noted followers are Bob Wilkin and G. Michael Corcoris. (Note: As I know Wilkin, I must refrain from saying some things publicly lest I wind up in court).

MacArthur was burdened because he had a few friends who apostasized with whom he had ministered earlier in life. One was his best friend with whom he used to go soul-winning. He saw his best friend after about a year out of college and the best friend told him he was now an atheist. Mac had another friend who he discipled every Tuesday morning for a year who then abandoned the faith, left his wife, and became a rector in a liberal Episcopalian church.

Mac wrote 'The Gospel According To Jesus' as a rebuttal to Ryrie and Hodges (and also to DTS student Livingston Blauvelt). It was originally going to be published by Moody. But Ryrie was Moody's biggest seller at the time and back off on the book. The next day, Zondervan (publisher of the NIV) called and picked up Mac's book. It went to #1 in the summer of 1988, the first book on doctrine to reach the top of the Christian book charts in over a decade.

As far as his preaching - I think some of his exegesis is rather questionable. For example, he tries to argue that the anarthrous construct at I Corinthians 14:2 means that the text should be translated, 'he that speaks in a tongue speaks unto A god.' This is actually JW theology as they apply it to John 1:1.

Overall, though, he is very good. He has described himself as a 'leaky dispensationalist' - holding only to separate covenants with the church and Israel. He has been blasted by ultradispies like Miles Stanford and fundamentalist Baptists who don't like his popularity. If you ever see him on Larry King, he's always very gracious even when he's being dismissed by other religious characters.

Btw - MOST DTS professors nowadays would side with MacArthur over Hodges-Ryrie. 

Maestroh


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## Maestroh

*By The Way*

The title of Hodges' book was "Absolutely Free."


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## CDM

Maestroh said:


> The title of Hodges' book was "Absolutely Free."



A worthless rag of a book.


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## Semper Fidelis

As others have stated, I like listening to MacArthur and you have to applaud him for not being a Christian one moment and then compromising his Christianity the next moment when they're speaking with Larry King.

As I've said elsewhere, he sounds like a great exegete - until he gets to Daniel and Revelations and then it's like your listening to a different man.


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## Maestroh

*I Concur*



mangum said:


> A worthless rag of a book.



Ever heard of R. B. Thieme?

He came up with the concept of 'an unbelieving believer.'


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## etexas

SemperFideles said:


> As others have stated, I like listening to MacArthur and you have to applaud him for not being a Christian one moment and then compromising his Christianity the next moment when they're speaking with Larry King.
> 
> As I've said elsewhere, he sounds like a great exegete - until he gets to Daniel and Revelations and then it's like your listening to a different man.


Rich, next time Megan and I go to my Mom's I am going to look at her MacArthur Study Bible, and really look at Daniel and Revelation. Like I say , for me as an Anglican he has flown under my radar. What I am getting is this: He is a good teacher/pastor, with flaws in interpretation of end time events. Is that a fair summary of the observations I have picked up here?


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## Ivan

> BlackCalvinist;244420]And one of MacArthur's disciples - C. Ryan Jenkins of _Sola Gratia Ministries_, completed his Masters' thesis on _Lordship Salvation and Pastoral Counseling_. Probably the most EXHAUSTIVE read on the subject in print - period. CRJ was nice enough to mail me a copy for study back in 04 when I was preparing to debate Bob Wilkin of the Grace Evangelical Society.




Kind sir, I would very much like to have a copy of the forementioned. Has the thesis ever been published? If not, would Brother Jenkins give me a copy?
Or would you? Of course, I would pay for the printing, postage, shipping and handling.


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## BlackCalvinist

Maestroh said:


> Ever heard of R. B. Thieme?
> 
> He came up with the concept of 'an unbelieving believer.'



Yep, I heard of that name. My first pastor used to talk about Thieme and say that after everyone else had squeezed every bit of juice out of a topic, he would come along and squeeze more out. (my first pastor also sat under Ryrie @ PBU back in the day....)


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## BlackCalvinist

Ivan said:


> Kind sir, I would very much like to have a copy of the forementioned. Has the thesis ever been published? If not, would Brother Jenkins give me a copy?
> Or would you? Of course, I would pay for the printing, postage, shipping and handling.



CRJ might be kind enough to give you a copy. Since it's his, I can't just send it around without permission. I think you can contact him through solagratia.org directly (I have his e-mail at home, I think, but I'd have to dig for it).


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## Ivan

BlackCalvinist said:


> CRJ might be kind enough to give you a copy. Since it's his, I can't just send it around without permission. I think you can contact him through solagratia.org directly (I have his e-mail at home, I think, but I'd have to dig for it).




Thank you. I went to the website and found his email address. Already sent off an email.

Thanks again!


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## Semper Fidelis

I follow Jesus said:


> Rich, next time Megan and I go to my Mom's I am going to look at her MacArthur Study Bible, and really look at Daniel and Revelation. Like I say , for me as an Anglican he has flown under my radar. What I am getting is this: He is a good teacher/pastor, with flaws in interpretation of end time events. Is that a fair summary of the observations I have picked up here?



Fair summary. You forgot to mention flaws in his interpretation of Covenant theology and sacramentology.


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## etexas

SemperFideles said:


> Fair summary. You forgot to mention flaws in his interpretation of Covenant theology and sacramentology.


Duly Noted.


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## panicbird

It sounds like this is a timely thread, since MacArthur has taken on this very topic at the Shepherd's Conference. The fallout should be interesting.


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## Founded on the Rock

Well I just commented on another thread about this, so I am not trying to pile on Dr. MacArthur, but in my opinion, he is an average preacher.

I think his focus on 1/2 a verse for 1/2 a sermon is a bit over the top. It is fine if you do it every now and again, but he does it consistantly.

As I have noted elsehwere, every opinion he holds is "obvious, it is right there in the Scriptures". This type of arrogance can hurt the gospel in my opinion...

While he is obviously not my personal favorite, I can appreciate much of his work, but I do not care for the way in which he says the things he does


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## etexas

panicbird said:


> It sounds like this is a timely thread, since MacArthur has taken on this very topic at the Shepherd's Conference. The fallout should be interesting.


Providence! I knew nothing of this conference when I began the thread. Given what I have heard........my thread might be a little more lively than I thought!


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## MrMerlin777

Founded on the Rock said:


> Well I just commented on another thread about this, so I am not trying to pile on Dr. MacArthur, but in my opinion, he is an average preacher.
> 
> I think his focus on 1/2 a verse for 1/2 a sermon is a bit over the top. It is fine if you do it every now and again, but he does it consistantly.
> 
> As I have noted elsehwere, every opinion he holds is "obvious, it is right there in the Scriptures". This type of arrogance can hurt the gospel in my opinion...
> 
> While he is obviously not my personal favorite, I can appreciate much of his work, but I do not care for the way in which he says the things he does



Not to hijack the thread but I just noticed that I've been to your church before. A couple of Sundays about two years ago. We were passing through on our way to WA and stopped in Indiana to visit some friends.


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## MrMerlin777

Yep, John MacArthur is pretty opinionated, and can come accross as arrogant at times. But I still like alot of what he has to say.  

As far as the Pre-Mil thing goes been there done that got the T-shirt(the same for Dispensationalism.)


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## ReformedWretch

MrMerlin777 said:


> Yep, John MacArthur is pretty opinionated, and can come accross as arrogant at times. But I still like alot of what he has to say.
> 
> As far as the Pre-Mil thing goes been there done that got the T-shirt(the same for Dispensationalism.)



I actually have several t-shirts, and a hat!


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## Founded on the Rock

MrMerlin777 said:


> Not to hijack the thread but I just noticed that I've been to your church before. A couple of Sundays about two years ago. We were passing through on our way to WA and stopped in Indiana to visit some friends.



O ya!? I actually have only been a member of the church for about a year now but it is a great church. I wonder how big it was when you attended... It is up to about 100 or so now but I have not been since I am at school in California right now! Peter Wallace is a great pastor though! I have lover hearing him preach!


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## etexas

Founded on the Rock said:


> O ya!? I actually have only been a member of the church for about a year now but it is a great church. I wonder how big it was when you attended... It is up to about 100 or so now but I have not been since I am at school in California right now! Peter Wallace is a great pastor though! I have lover hearing him preach!


Hey! Wise-Guys, don't be hijacking my thread! I aint playin around!


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## MrMerlin777

I follow Jesus said:


> Hey! Wise-Guys, don't be hijacking my thread! I aint playin around!



Sorry...

I grovel in mortification... I grovel.....


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## etexas

MrMerlin777 said:


> Sorry...
> 
> I grovel in mortification... I grovel.....


Quite forgiven my brother.


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## Andrew P.C.

Oh... wait... i thought i heard something on this thread. Maybe a second beatdown is neccesary just to cleanse your sins of this so called... hijacking...

 



I'm bored... can you tell


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## bookslover

MrMerlin777 said:


> Yes MacArthur is a "theological mixed bag". Aptly put. I listen to him on the radio durring my morning drive to work. I disagree with his Progressive Dispensationalism. But otherwise I think his exposition is pretty good.




I don't think MacArthur is in the progressive dispensationalist camp. I think he's a classic (meaning Ryrie, Walvoord) dispensationalist.


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## bookslover

Bob Hanks said:


> MacArthur's dispensationalism is really bare bones. To him ,dispensationalism is simply two facts -- Israel and the Church are distinct and seperate , and there is a future for the nation of Israel.



True. He rejects the 7 dispensations of classic dispensationalism but maintains the distinction between Israel and the Church.


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## bwsmith

I wondered why he was dropped from WRBS -- Baltimore. His book The Gospel According to Jesus was amazing -- it was what my mother was reading shorlty before she died -- and I believe went home to be with the Lord.


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## bookslover

Some real basic biographical info on MacArthur, for the 3 people in North America who might be unaware - 

Born in Los Angeles in June, 1939; graduated from Talbot Theological Seminary in the middle 1960s (I forget which year); has pastored only one church (Grace Community Church of the Valley in Sun Valley, California) since 1969; is married and has 4 children (2 boys and 2 girls); neither of the boys entered the ministry; he is distantly related to General Douglas MacArthur.

He is also the fifth consecutive generation of pastors in his family (so his 2 sons have broken that string). His dad, Jack MacArthur, died just a few years ago at 91.

I've heard rumors that there were Presbyterians in the family, maybe 2 or 3 generations ago (don't know if it's true).

Interesting trivia: the late James Montgomery Boice was 1 year older than MacArthur (born in 1938) and began his ministry at Tenth Pres 1 year before MacArthur started at Grace (1968).


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## BlackCalvinist

bwsmith said:


> I wondered why he was dropped from WRBS -- Baltimore. His book The Gospel According to Jesus was amazing -- it was what my mother was reading shorlty before she died -- and I believe went home to be with the Lord.



And even while Peter and John were both still alive, they actually wanted a _personal_ statement/apology from MacArthur before they'd start carrying GTY again along with some other red tape.

Interestingly, enough..... Grace to You is back on WRBS now. Monday through Friday at Noon.

Thank God.  I was already disappointed in WRBS when they sold Trustworthy Books to that Oneness Pentecostal group in Reisterstown.....


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## Herald

I am generally sick of Christian radio. WRBS has this new "light and encouraging" platform. The addition of GTY is a step in the right direction, but that station has a long way to go. The only other alternative is WAVA. Talk about a mixed bag! But they do carry The White Horse Inn, Renewing your Mind and Grace to You. I think Ravi Zacharias is on there too. I'm learning to download mp3's of my favorite programs and play them while I am out in the field for the day.


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## Semper Fidelis

BaptistInCrisis said:


> I am generally sick of Christian radio. WRBS has this new "light and encouraging" platform. The addition of GTY is a step in the right direction, but that station has a long way to go. The only other alternative is WAVA. Talk about a mixed bag! But they do carry The White Horse Inn, Renewing your Mind and Grace to You. I think Ravi Zacharias is on there too. I'm learning to download mp3's of my favorite programs and play them while I am out in the field for the day.



"Christian" radio






I think it's called WAVA in DC (is it 105.1). Contains everybody from rank heretics to R.C. Sproul and John MacArthur. A lot of these stations also let snake oil salesmen hawk products.

I bought an iPod when I moved here. Now I _only_ listen to Podcasts during my drives.


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## Ravens

> I bought an iPod when I moved here. Now I only listen to Podcasts during my drives.



Sermon audio:


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