# The Quran's doctrine of abrogation



## JM (Oct 8, 2008)

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Kox5XNuyb8]YouTube - The Quran's doctrine of abrogation[/ame]


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## Pergamum (Oct 10, 2008)

Muslims will demand that we give them an explanation of how the OT laws are NOT abrogated (many believe that we, too, believe in aborgation because we no longer have prohibitions against eating shellfish, etc.


Can you simply explain why the Islamic doctrine of abrogation is wrong while the Christian doctrine is right, even though so many OT laws are repealed? That is what will be demanded by educated Muslims.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 10, 2008)

I can't answer the question, but that video was really interesting.


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## Pergamum (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes, the latest verses are the most violent (read Surah 2).


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## JM (Oct 11, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Muslims will demand that we give them an explanation of how the OT laws are NOT abrogated (many believe that we, too, believe in aborgation because we no longer have prohibitions against eating shellfish, etc.
> 
> Can you simply explain why the Islamic doctrine of abrogation is wrong while the Christian doctrine is right, even though so many OT laws are repealed? That is what will be demanded by educated Muslims.



Did the video claim one was right and the other wrong? 

I thought it was about the peaceful abrogated verses being used my Muslims to give the perception of peace when they have been abrogated by more violent verses. 



Can you explain for Abd_Yesua_alMasih and I why one is "right and the other wrong?" I've found in my recent discussions with Muslims that it really doesn't matter what you present to them because, this is the standard, "the Bible is corrupt" or "Paul altered Christianity" and lets not forget, no matter what topic you're discussing, "the Trinity is a false doctrine, shirk!" What I have done is show how the Law points to Christ and fulfills the ceremonial aspects of it. 

Thank you.

j


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## JM (Oct 11, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Yes, the latest verses are the most violent (read Surah 2).



I'm just waking up and had to retype my post...you're too fast!


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## Pergamum (Oct 11, 2008)

Intellectual and logical debates usually do not work with Muslims. Life witness, love and personal prayers on their behalf and in their presences all seem much more powerful.

Matthew 11:28 (Come unto me all who labor and are heavy-laden...") still stands as the most powerful verse to use in the Muslim world.


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## Pergamum (Oct 11, 2008)

Yes, fulfillment is much different than abrogation (gotta tell my "New Covenant" Baptist friends that).....


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## panta dokimazete (Oct 11, 2008)

And much more relevant...as opposed to drawing similarities.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 11, 2008)

As I understand it this doctrine of al-Nasikh wal-Mansoukh is a way of showing liberal Muslims as well as westerners the dangers of real Islam. This in itself has been known for a long time.

How can it be logically used to turn Muslims to Christ? I miss that gap.

Although I agree with Pergamum that Muslims can not be just engaged with on a rational level. I have a relative who is Muslim. He has left home and taken up living somewhere in Indonesia where every now and again he sends us emails or posts messages on Facebook about his faith. Just not open for dialogue and his is not the only case I have found where just talking to them about these issues doesn't work.


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