# Reforming the local church



## Particular Baptist (Mar 11, 2010)

Friends,

Recently, the pastor of the church I attend asked me to help him reform our church and assist in drawing up a church constitution and covenant. Our congregation is not really a 'church' in that there is no accountability, nor is there community. This has alarmed my pastor, who just recently in the past few years has come to know the truth of the doctrines of grace. As someone who has never been a part of this I figured I would ask those of you who have experience would offer some wisdom and guidance about how to go about this and maybe how to set up a constitution and covenant.


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## itsreed (Mar 11, 2010)

Is the congregation ready to follow the pastor's lead? 

Don't fool yourself here. Actually count heads and get an assessment of how spiritually mature, and also how committed they are the pastor's ministry. A high degree of one or the other is essential (both is preferable). Again, actually count heads (particularly, and then actually measure). Identify the natural opinion leaders in the congregation. Do any of these have an strong convictions that will go against the direction?

Regardless of whether or not there is a high degree of either maturity/commitment, y'all need to put in lots and lots of prayer.

I suggest y'all begin (after "counting heads") with an extended period of teaching on the necessity and practices of reformation. A good review of the history of this from the Reformation period will help. 

However, as it sounds as if this is an a-ecclesiological group (i.e., they have a little to no biblically informed ecclesiology) then a thorough study of this subject is essential. Preaching from books like the pastoral epistles are helpful. Studies on the book of Acts and 1Cor will helpfuly identify the biblical path from informal gathering to formally identified body of Christ.

I.O.W., the plan must be rooted in an intentional application of the means of grace to this particular need. In this way y'all bring your faith to bear in a manner consistent with the Spirit's promise to minister Christ.

Hope this helps.

Did I mention "counting heads"? Consider that both Paul and John necessarily engaged in such a practice. (E.g., their reference by name of men who opposed their ministry necessitates a particular and personal assessment.)


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## rbcbob (Mar 11, 2010)

Particular Baptist said:


> Friends,
> 
> Recently, the pastor of the church I attend asked me to help him reform our church and assist in drawing up a church constitution and covenant. *Our congregation is not really a 'church*' in that there is *no accountability*, *nor is there community*. This has alarmed my pastor, who just recently in the past few years has come to know the truth of the doctrines of grace. As someone who has never been a part of this I figured I would ask those of you who have experience would offer some wisdom and guidance about how to go about this and maybe how to set up a constitution and covenant.



There has to be an identifiable "we" who will eventually confess what "our" church believes; _i.e._ real membership.


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## Herald (Mar 11, 2010)

rbcbob said:


> Particular Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Friends,
> ...



I concur. If the group you meet with is not really a church, then it's not a church. There is some foundational work that needs to be done first before church covenants, constitutions, and doctrinal statements are agreed on. What type of church is this going to be? Baptist? Presbyterian? If Baptist, I would be happy to share the model we used.


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## rbcbob (Mar 11, 2010)

Thanks Bill, I was hoping that you would weigh in knowing something of your having recently worked through some of these issues.


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## Pergamum (Mar 11, 2010)

Beware, your pastor might be in the "Cage Stage." 

The scenario you described often ends up in division and church splits because the pastor or an influential party in the church comes to know the truth, and then tries to apply it too quickly to the people. 

When many first come to the doctrines of grace, many feel duped by what they used to believe and it leads to negativity and much preaching AGAINST things instead of for Christ. Then, as people leave, the pastor or reforming people feel justified to call them goats because they didn''t stick around when, I suspect, many did not stay because of the bull-in-a-china-shop manner of the reforming party.

It is not only important to reform a church, but HOW you do it is vital. 


One possible evidence that this will turn out bad is that you have already diagnosed them as "not a church." I am sure if you are too eager for them to know this, it will not be received warmly.


P.s. I am a Missourian and have many ties to Missouri. I know a few believers who are meeting in Joplin, too.


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## Scott1 (Mar 12, 2010)

Once a groundwork is laid with prayer and good teaching, leadership ought look to adopt a confession, and join a like-minded communion, denomination.

Over the long run, the unity of the church is grounded on doctrinal agreement, and that will be its charter, confession and accountability. Without that, you have primarily a social organization founded on the shifting sands of disparate opinion, ones that change as various members mature in their understanding of Scripture. It's not enough to emphasize just "loving one another" without an accountable doctrine and practice standard. God will test the basis and prove out what is there. (see especially Revelation 1:20 - 3:22)

But getting there should be a deliberative process, built on prayer and good biblical teaching. You may want to seek out some advisors in possible future denominations.


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## Particular Baptist (Mar 12, 2010)

Thanks guys for all your input!

To address some of the questions, we are Baptist of the John Bunyan sort in that we believe that the proper mode of baptism is credobaptism by immersion but don't make such an idol of it that we would withhold membership from those who, because of their conscience, have been baptized as infants or by some other mode and who give a credible confession of faith. 

The church situation is somewhat peculiar. My father came out of a very strict Church of Christ (no piano, no Sunday School, postmillenial, and prayed every night that God would see enough good in him to let him into heaven). He was converted, thanks in part to his marriage to my mother who was Baptist and a recent convert, and preached in 4 SBC churches for around 16 years. This church we started was actually just those who left my father's last pastorate and followed him there.


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## rbcbob (Mar 12, 2010)

Spencer,
I can appreciate the magnitude of the work that is before you. You say "we are Baptist of the John Bunyan sort" and therein is the rub. That dear brother of old has been used of God to the blessing of untold myriads of His children, both Baptist and Paedobaptist. But ecclesiology was not his forte. For the sake of the flock now and well into its future it is essential that you folks nail down what you believe the Scriptures teach about the church. That would include its identity (membership and entrance therein) as well as its practice (Worship, administration of sacraments, missions, etc.) These are not light and minor concerns. I would suggest a thorough study of the London Baptist Confession of Faith (1689).


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## Particular Baptist (Mar 12, 2010)

One thing that my pastor has been discussing is the desire to unite into a communion of churches. I personally could subscribe to the 1689 Confession, except I have a different view than most 'Reformed' believers about the use of violence. Our pastor is close to John Macarthur in beliefs (he still holds to dispensational eschatology) but is very passionate about his new understanding of salvation and the sovereignty of God. I have looked at the CCCC and ARBCA as possible communions but don't know what communion would be the best fit for this congregation.

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Herald said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > Particular Baptist said:
> ...


 
What model did you use Mr. Brown?


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## Kiffin (Mar 12, 2010)

You might want to look into the CREC as well...


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## Particular Baptist (Mar 12, 2010)

I think the CREC is full of Federal Vision pastors


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## Herald (Mar 12, 2010)

Particular Baptist said:


> One thing that my pastor has been discussing is the desire to unite into a communion of churches. I personally could subscribe to the 1689 Confession, except I have a different view than most 'Reformed' believers about the use of violence. Our pastor is close to John Macarthur in beliefs (he still holds to dispensational eschatology) but is very passionate about his new understanding of salvation and the sovereignty of God. I have looked at the CCCC and ARBCA as possible communions but don't know what communion would be the best fit for this congregation.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 02:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 PM ----------
> 
> ...



Spencer,

First, I am going to share how we became a Reformed church. 

After the pastor and elders, of which I am one, became convinced Calvinists, we began to look into the Reformed faith. I knew little about it. I began to read as many Reformed resources as I could. I acquainted myself with the history of the Reformation and the Confessions. Being a Baptist I was drawn to the 1689 Second London Baptist Confession of Faith. My personal study in the LBCF lead to advanced conversations with my pastor and other elders. Eventually I began a teaching series on the LBCF that just ended this past February. The series lasted two years. During that time our membership was educated on the Reformation, confessionalism in general, and Baptist confessionalism specifically. As the series progressed so did the Reformed convictions of the pastor and elders. I must give the PB credit in exposing me to profitable discussions about the Reformed faith. In September of 2009 our church voted on adopting the 1689 LBC as our statement of faith. In essence, we became a Reformed Baptist church at that point. 

If I were to provide you a schematic it would look like this:

1. Personal conviction towards Calvinism shared by the pastor and elders.
2. Willingness to explore the Reformed faith.
3. Desire to study Baptist confessionalism.
4. Clear communication with the church about teaching the Confession.
5. Clear "two-way" dialog between the elders and members.
6. Presentation of the Confession to the church.
7. Adoption of the Confession as the church's statement of faith.
8. Continued commitment to semper reformanda (always reforming).

The above was our path. We were planted in 2000 as synergistic Baptist church. Our journey to Calvinism, and eventually the Reformed faith, cost us members and elders. If you are starting from the ground up you have the opportunity to begin as a Reformed church.

Don't even think of ARBCA. Not only is it a long drawn out process, but they will not accept a Bunyan-type church. They only nominate and accept full confessional subscription churches, and it seems you are not there. 

Personally, I'm a bit concerned about how your group is planning on becoming a church. It doesn't seem like you have a solid commitment to the Reformed faith, never mind the doctrines of grace. It also seems like you don't have another church or organization to come along side you and offer support. If you go the MacArthur route, including his leaky dispensationalism, you'll have a difficult time with confessionalism. If your church cannot/will not fully subscribe to the 1689 LBC (or the WCF if you go the paedobaptist route), then you have no hope of being Reformed. And since this is a Reformed board, my advice and admonition would be to point you towards the Reformed faith.


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## Edward (Mar 12, 2010)

Kiffin said:


> You might want to look into the CREC as well...


 
*?*


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## Kiffin (Mar 12, 2010)

Particular Baptist said:


> I think the CREC is full of Federal Vision pastors


 
OOOPS!!! Didn't look closelly enough.. 

Here's their position on FV: http://www.crechurches.org/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=14


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## Pergamum (Mar 12, 2010)

Check out FIRE, The Fellowship of Independant Reformed Evangelicals: FIRE: Fellowship of Independent Reformed Evangelicals. They can provide good fellowship and some of these brothers can come alongside you and your pastor as you try to move your church in a healthier direction.

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If your church is not ready for full-blown confessionalism but is moving towards calvinism, then this might be a good place to start.


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## Rich Koster (Mar 12, 2010)

There are some good resources for pastors here:
9Marks

I read quite a few articles about how not to wreck a congregation while implementing change, especially church discipline.


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## Particular Baptist (Mar 14, 2010)

Thanks alot Perg! Where do the folks you know in Joplin attend worship?


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