# PCA church? Did I read that right?



## chuckd

Surely this is PC(USA). No, in the PCA church directory.

http://intownchurch.com/blog/2015/6/26/what-a-consequential-week



> I'm a pastor of a church where members are not uniform in their response to this ruling, and I actually find that to be one of the most beautiful things about our church. Some of us are putting rainbow filters on our Facebook avatars while others are disappointed in the SCOTUS decision but are holding our tongues on social media for fear or being labeled in an unfortunate way.





> For those of us who find the SCOTUS decision something to be celebrated, we should remember Romans 14, where the Apostle Paul advises those of us with less scruples to be gracious towards our brothers and sisters with more.


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## arapahoepark

Todd Pruit commented on that over at the Mortification of Spin blog. It appears to be correct that it is a PCA church.


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## Berean

chuckd said:


> For those of us who find the SCOTUS decision something to be celebrated,



This is the pastor of a PCA church affirming (even celebrating) the SCOTUS ruling?


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## Jake

Romans 1:32 NASB: and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.


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## Unoriginalname

Since this was only posted a few days ago, I imagine more will come of it. PNW is known for alot of things but I do not think think they will be a presbytery soft on this...


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## Edward

Unoriginalname said:


> PNW is known for alot of things but I do not think think they will be a presbytery soft on this...



I wasn't particularly surprised when I saw the Presbytery.


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## Beoga

Edward said:


> Unoriginalname said:
> 
> 
> 
> PNW is known for alot of things but I do not think think they will be a presbytery soft on this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't particularly surprised when I saw the Presbytery.
Click to expand...


Hey now. There are good churches in the area. 

I know I will be watching closely to see what, if any, action will be taken.


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## Unoriginalname

Edward said:


> Unoriginalname said:
> 
> 
> 
> PNW is known for alot of things but I do not think think they will be a presbytery soft on this...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wasn't particularly surprised when I saw the Presbytery.
Click to expand...


Without trying to speak ill of our brothers, even though they were soft in past disciplinary issues I do not think they that means they would be soft on this issue. It is an error from a very different direction. There is probably little more I can say while preserving people's good names, but this will be an issue all reformed churches will face, because heresy comes from the heart of man, but I don't see PNW being the first presbytery to fold over this issue, I would place bets elsewhere.


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## joebonni63

This would not be a problem if Christian's would read their Bibles. The RCC has been more powerful then we thought on the non reading of the Bible. Think of the Reformers they translated the Bible so we could read it not buy it only it's not a dust collector.


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## Edward

Unoriginalname said:


> soft in past disciplinary issues



Did PNW ever give a proper response to Evangel Presbytery about one of their pastors improperly laboring out of bounds? (It's been a year, so I may have missed it, but I'm not sure that 'past' is an appropriate qualifier.)



Beoga said:


> Hey now. There are good churches in the area.



I'll be more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when they apologize to the denomination for the scandal of that farce they staged.


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## crixus

chuckd said:


> Surely this is PC(USA). No, in the PCA church directory.
> 
> http://intownchurch.com/blog/2015/6/26/what-a-consequential-week
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm a pastor of a church where members are not uniform in their response to this ruling, and I actually find that to be one of the most beautiful things about our church. Some of us are putting rainbow filters on our Facebook avatars while others are disappointed in the SCOTUS decision but are holding our tongues on social media for fear or being labeled in an unfortunate way.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> For those of us who find the SCOTUS decision something to be celebrated, we should remember Romans 14, where the Apostle Paul advises those of us with less scruples to be gracious towards our brothers and sisters with more.
> 
> Click to expand...
Click to expand...


That church is in Portland, OR which is an *extremely* liberal city. But I highly doubt the PCA as a whole will be following suit.


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## Josh Valdix

Here's a second blog post by the pastor, in response to how the first one went viral. He tries to play it off like it's not a big deal. http://intownchurch.com/blog/2015/7/15/a-blog-post-that-wont-go-viral


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## Edward

Josh Valdix said:


> Here's a second blog post by the pastor



I find this a bit troubling:

" I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."


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## SRoper

Edward said:


> Josh Valdix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a second blog post by the pastor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this a bit troubling:
> 
> " I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."
Click to expand...


That jumped out to me as well, Edward. I suppose he means that any lack of clarity in his previous post doesn't impair his standing before God, but the language he used is a great way to isolate oneself from criticism.


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## BGF

Edward said:


> Josh Valdix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a second blog post by the pastor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this a bit troubling:
> 
> " I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."
Click to expand...


I wonder if his post was the first of his "Three Free Sins"?


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## earl40

BGF said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Valdix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a second blog post by the pastor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this a bit troubling:
> 
> " I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder if his post was the first of his "Three Free Sins"?
Click to expand...


I resemble that remark since I attend the church where the "Three Free Sins" guy AKA Pastor Brown is a member also. There is a balance of who we want to come our churches, which is all people with "all" being in the arminian sense of the word. I would be glad that those who are LGBT would attend though I would not be beautiful thing if _communing members_ were not "lock step" in their opinion of this issue for it is not a "scruple" but a sin to hold contrary to what scripture teaches. Yes the blog was not worded in a precise manner and it does take a lot of grace to read it in a good light which of course ought not to be if the Pastor worded it more precisely. I know our pastor has to put out a lot of fires when Pastor Steve uses one of his 3 free sins when he preaches to us now and then. Of course I can give a lot of grace to Pastor Brown but in saying that I understand some of those free sins are indeed sin and not a scruple as expressed in the blog post in question.


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## louis

earl40 said:


> BGF said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Valdix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a second blog post by the pastor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this a bit troubling:
> 
> " I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I wonder if his post was the first of his "Three Free Sins"?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I resemble that remark since I attend the church where the "Three Free Sins" guy AKA Pastor Brown is a member also. There is a balance of who we want to come our churches, which is all people with "all" being in the arminian sense of the word. I would be glad that those who are LGBT would attend though I would not be beautiful thing if _communing members_ were not "lock step" in their opinion of this issue for it is not a "scruple" but a sin to hold contrary to what scripture teaches. Yes the blog was not worded in a precise manner and it does take a lot of grace to read it in a good light which of course ought not to be if the Pastor worded it more precisely. I know our pastor has to put out a lot of fires when Pastor Steve uses one of his 3 free sins when he preaches to us now and then. Of course I can give a lot of grace to Pastor Brown but in saying that I understand some of those free sins are indeed sin and not a scruple as expressed in the blog post in question.
Click to expand...


I get Steve Brown and thank God for his ministry.


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## Andres

Edward said:


> Josh Valdix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a second blog post by the pastor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this a bit troubling:
> 
> " I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."
Click to expand...


I find it A LOT troubling.


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## ooguyx

Edward said:


> I'll be more willing to give them the benefit of the doubt when they apologize to the denomination for the scandal of that farce they staged.


That's the spirit brother, hold a grudge.


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## Unoriginalname

Andres said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Josh Valdix said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here's a second blog post by the pastor
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I find this a bit troubling:
> 
> " I did have to talk to Jesus. And he told me that he and I were okay, and that we could still be friends."
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I find it A LOT troubling.
Click to expand...


With such a flippant response I find it even harder for someone to defend his first post as being poorly worded or thought out. This minister clearly has a very irreverent view of God and no grasp of the issues at hand.


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## Edward

Andres said:


> I find it A LOT troubling.



I was trying to be nice. PNW probably needs to go the way of Louisiana Presbytery. It may well be beyond saving at this point.


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## Edward

ooguyx said:


> That's the spirit brother, hold a grudge.



Get me a copy of the response of PNW to Evangel Presbytery, and I'll be willing to reconsider my position after reviewing that.


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## BGF

There are so many ways that I could possibly address the piece from Brian Prentiss, but a comparison to this, dare I say, more appropriate response to the ruling is better than any criticism I could offer. I get that the pastor was celebrating the openness of his church to sinners of all stripes, and that in his area of ministry he will be dealing with some pretty anti-orthodox views, but his post had more to say than just that. It's in his other musings that the problems arise and the critics take justifiable issue. His response to the critics better expressed what I think he was trying to say in the first place (as read through the rose colored charity glasses). Had he just said that, albeit without the defensiveness, he would have been on more solid ground.


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## Beoga

Edward said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it A LOT troubling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to be nice. PNW probably needs to go the way of Louisiana Presbytery. It may well be beyond saving at this point.
Click to expand...


Brother, as a member of a church in the PNW Presbytery, I find your attitude to be very discouraging. I can understand being disappointing and upset over certain rulings or decisions made by the presbytery but you don't even seem to allow room for the fact that there are still good churches in the area. How much time have spent praying for our churches? How much time has your church prayed for our presbytery? Have you reached out to any of the pastors or elders up here? Or is easier to sit down there in Texas and be upset about the "enemy up there?" 

I am very discouraged about what I hear coming out of Intown. I have great concern for Brian and for the people at Intown.I care for that church. I care because it is a Church of the Lord Jesus Christ that, based on the blog posts, could be heading down a road towards apostasy. I care because the church is 15 minutes from where I live. I care because I used to attend there.

Again, I beg of you, please be in prayer for us before you write us off completely. Pray for wisdom and strength as they deal with Brian and Intown.


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## RamistThomist

Beoga said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> I find it A LOT troubling.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I was trying to be nice. PNW probably needs to go the way of Louisiana Presbytery. It may well be beyond saving at this point.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brother, as a member of a church in the PNW Presbytery, I find your attitude to be very discouraging. I can understand being disappointing and upset over certain rulings or decisions made by the presbytery but you don't even seem to allow room for the fact that there are still good churches in the area. How much time have spent praying for our churches? How much time has your church prayed for our presbytery? Have you reached out to any of the pastors or elders up here? Or is easier to sit down there in Texas and be upset about the "enemy up there?"
> 
> I am very discouraged about what I hear coming out of Intown. I have great concern for Brian and for the people at Intown.I care for that church. I care because it is a Church of the Lord Jesus Christ that, based on the blog posts, could be heading down a road towards apostasy. I care because the church is 15 minutes from where I live. I care because I used to attend there.
> 
> Again, I beg of you, please be in prayer for us before you write us off completely. Pray for wisdom and strength as they deal with Brian and Intown.
Click to expand...


I certainly understand that. I was in La. Presbytery when it imploded. While there was much wrong that went on in there, when that Presbytery died so did most of Presbyterianism in La. Now it is a bunch of struggling churches who will probably die soon unless something extra nos happens.


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## Edward

Beoga said:


> you don't even seem to allow room for the fact that there are still good churches in the area



There were some good churches, if perhaps in some cases excessively tolerant of friends, in Louisiana Presbytery, as well. One ended up in N.Tx, a couple in Mississippi Valley, and 2 or 3 in South Louisiana. 



Beoga said:


> Pray for wisdom and strength as they deal with Brian and Intown.



That shouldn't be the biggest problem on their radar at this point. They have bigger fish they need to be frying.


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## Edward

ReformedReidian said:


> Now it is a bunch of struggling churches who will probably die soon unless something extra nos happens.



Some of them weren't exactly prospering under the ancien régime, were they? Part of the problem was that it was the dominant church that ran off the rails.


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## Beoga

Edward said:


> There were some good churches, if perhaps in some cases excessively tolerant of friends, in Louisiana Presbytery, as well. One ended up in N.Tx, a couple in Mississippi Valley, and 2 or 3 in South Louisiana.



"There were some good churches"?!?! Were?! Seriously? You don't believe there is a faithful church left in the Pacific Northwest Presbytery? 

If you ever find yourself in the Portland area I would love to have you visit WPC Vancouver to show you otherwise (though I get the feeling you would be unwilling to step foot in our doors).



> That shouldn't be the biggest problem on their radar at this point. They have bigger fish they need to be frying.



If you don't mind, why don't you provide me with your contact information so that my Session can get a hold of you to find out which issues they should be focused on.


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## RamistThomist

Edward said:


> ReformedReidian said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now it is a bunch of struggling churches who will probably die soon unless something extra nos happens.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Some of them weren't exactly prospering under the ancien régime, were they? Part of the problem was that it was the dominant church that ran off the rails.
Click to expand...


True


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## SRoper

Beoga said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were some good churches, if perhaps in some cases excessively tolerant of friends, in Louisiana Presbytery, as well. One ended up in N.Tx, a couple in Mississippi Valley, and 2 or 3 in South Louisiana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There were some good churches"?!?! Were?! Seriously? You don't believe there is a faithful church left in the Pacific Northwest Presbytery?
> 
> If you ever find yourself in the Portland area I would love to have you visit WPC Vancouver to show you otherwise (though I get the feeling you would be unwilling to step foot in our doors).
Click to expand...


I think you misread Edward. He wrote, "There were some good churches ... in Louisiana Presbytery." He's writing in the past tense because Louisiana Presbytery no longer exists. From my reading, Edward thinks it would be better for everyone if the bulk of churches in PNW that aren't a good fit in the PCA would leave and let the remaining churches become part of the neighboring presbyteries. I'm not sure why you have taken that to mean that there aren't any good churches in PNW.


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## Beoga

SRoper said:


> Beoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were some good churches, if perhaps in some cases excessively tolerant of friends, in Louisiana Presbytery, as well. One ended up in N.Tx, a couple in Mississippi Valley, and 2 or 3 in South Louisiana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There were some good churches"?!?! Were?! Seriously? You don't believe there is a faithful church left in the Pacific Northwest Presbytery?
> 
> If you ever find yourself in the Portland area I would love to have you visit WPC Vancouver to show you otherwise (though I get the feeling you would be unwilling to step foot in our doors).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you misread Edward. He wrote, "There were some good churches ... in Louisiana Presbytery." He's writing in the past tense because Louisiana Presbytery no longer exists. From my reading, Edward thinks it would be better for everyone if the bulk of churches in PNW that aren't a good fit in the PCA would leave and let the remaining churches become part of the neighboring presbyteries. I'm not sure why you have taken that to mean that there aren't any good churches in PNW.
Click to expand...


If I did misread Edward (which is probably most likely) then I sincerely apologize for doing so and responding in the way that I did.


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## RamistThomist

Beoga said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Beoga said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Edward said:
> 
> 
> 
> There were some good churches, if perhaps in some cases excessively tolerant of friends, in Louisiana Presbytery, as well. One ended up in N.Tx, a couple in Mississippi Valley, and 2 or 3 in South Louisiana.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> "There were some good churches"?!?! Were?! Seriously? You don't believe there is a faithful church left in the Pacific Northwest Presbytery?
> 
> If you ever find yourself in the Portland area I would love to have you visit WPC Vancouver to show you otherwise (though I get the feeling you would be unwilling to step foot in our doors).
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I think you misread Edward. He wrote, "There were some good churches ... in Louisiana Presbytery." He's writing in the past tense because Louisiana Presbytery no longer exists. From my reading, Edward thinks it would be better for everyone if the bulk of churches in PNW that aren't a good fit in the PCA would leave and let the remaining churches become part of the neighboring presbyteries. I'm not sure why you have taken that to mean that there aren't any good churches in PNW.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If I did misread Edward (which is probably most likely) then I sincerely apologize for doing so and responding in the way that I did.
Click to expand...


A lot of times when you leave a Presbytery (or a Presbytery disbands like in La.), and your church is small, and for whatever reason you seek to gain entrance into another Presbytery, it can be very difficult if not impossible. This came up in a former La. church I was in. The church was almost too small to gain admittance.


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## Edward

SRoper said:


> I think you misread Edward.



Thanks for translating. 

Since you are a little shy of half way between here and there, you must be able to speak both languages.


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## Unoriginalname

ReformedReidian said:


> A lot of times when you leave a Presbytery (or a Presbytery disbands like in La.), and your church is small, and for whatever reason you seek to gain entrance into another Presbytery, it can be very difficult if not impossible. This came up in a former La. church I was in. The church was almost too small to gain admittance.



Why would a church's size hinder its ability to move into the presbytery if it is already an established church?


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