# Baptism: Remission of Sins?



## Andrew P.C. (Aug 22, 2007)

Just a question on baptism from the Presbytarian understanding, when you baptize your infants, do you believe that the remission of their sins is taking place?

As the WCF reads regarding baptism:


> I. Baptism is a sacrament of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ,[1] not only for the solemn admission of the party baptized into the visible Church;[2] but also to be unto him a sign and seal of the covenant of grace,[3] of his ingrafting into Christ,[4] of regeneration,[5] of remission of sins



Would you also say that baptism regenerates them?


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## VaughanRSmith (Aug 22, 2007)

No, and no.

The confession states that it is a sign and seal of regeneration, and the remission of sins. The efficiacy is found in the ingrafting into the church.

I'm not a Pressie (yet), but I am a WCF'er.


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## Andrew P.C. (Aug 22, 2007)

Exagorazo said:


> No, and no.
> 
> The confession states that it is a sign and seal of regeneration, and the remission of sins. The efficiacy is found in the ingrafting into the church.
> 
> I'm not a Pressie (yet), but I am a WCF'er.



So baptism ingrafts you into the church?


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## Calvibaptist (Aug 22, 2007)

Andrew P.C. said:


> Just a question on baptism from the Presbytarian understanding, when you baptize your infants, do you believe that the remission of their sins is taking place?
> 
> As the WCF reads regarding baptism:
> 
> ...



I would be cautious reading this into the WCF. For example, the 1689 LBC states:



> Baptism is an ordinance of the New Testament, ordained by Jesus Christ, to be unto the party baptized, a sign of his fellowship with him, in his death and resurrection; of his being engrafted into him; of remission of sins; and of giving up into God, through Jesus Christ, to live and walk in newness of life.



There are some obvious differences:
1) dropping the admission into the visible church
2) dropping the word "seal"
3) addition of the phrase "fellowship with him, in his death and resurrection"
4) dropping of "covenant of grace"
5) dropping of regeneration
6) addition of "giving up...newness of life."

But, interestingly enough, your question could be asked of a Baptist as well, because we include "remission of sins" in the statement. I think you just skipped the phrase "sign and seal." which is a very important phrase.


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## VaughanRSmith (Aug 22, 2007)

Andrew P.C. said:


> Exagorazo said:
> 
> 
> > No, and no.
> ...


Yes.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 22, 2007)

Exagorazo said:


> No, and no.
> 
> The confession states that it is a sign and seal of regeneration, and the remission of sins. The efficiacy is found in the ingrafting into the church.



What he said.


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## Calvibaptist (Aug 22, 2007)

Andrew P.C. said:


> Exagorazo said:
> 
> 
> > No, and no.
> ...



Visible church. Honestly, modern Baptists believe this. That is why we baptize professors into membership in the local church.


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## VaughanRSmith (Aug 22, 2007)

Calvibaptist said:


> Andrew P.C. said:
> 
> 
> > Exagorazo said:
> ...


Heh... I was holding off on the visible/invisible thing until later


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## Andrew P.C. (Aug 22, 2007)

K, thanks for the clarification. I didn't think all Presbyterian's believed that because of my discussions with them. Some Presbyterian's that I have talked to though claim that baptism regenerates them... =/... Recently as well, I did some research on the Federal Vision and unless i read it wrong, they as teach baptismal regeneration.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Aug 22, 2007)

Andrew P.C. said:


> K, thanks for the clarification. I didn't think all Presbyterian's believed that because of my discussions with them. Some Presbyterian's that I have talked to though claim that baptism regenerates them... =/... Recently as well, I did some research on the Federal Vision and unless i read it wrong, they as teach baptismal regeneration.



You did not read it wrong.


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## Robert Truelove (Aug 22, 2007)

Actually, as I have been studying the writings of Federal Vision proponents, they aren't teaching baptismal regeneration...all they are saying is that baptism 'clothes the recipient with Christ', 'places him in Christ'; it places someone in union with Christ and therefore makes the subject a 'recipient of all that is Christ's'. It also gives cause to declare the baptized to be 'elect', 'saved' and places the subject into 'a real relationship consisting of real communion with the Triune God through union with Christ'.

There is just no way they are teaching baptismal regeneration. 



Andrew P.C. said:


> K, thanks for the clarification. I didn't think all Presbyterian's believed that because of my discussions with them. Some Presbyterian's that I have talked to though claim that baptism regenerates them... =/... Recently as well, I did some research on the Federal Vision and unless i read it wrong, they as teach baptismal regeneration.


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