# The Final Decision of Calling a Pastor



## Quatchu (Nov 28, 2012)

Should the congregation have the final vote on who they call as a Sr or Associate Pastor or should the decision be completely that of the Session?


----------



## Ask Mr. Religion (Nov 28, 2012)

The PCA book of church order states that the congregation, by vote, following the recommendation of the pulpit committee, calls the pastor, no?


----------



## westminken (Nov 28, 2012)

Yes, in the PCA, the congregation has the final vote on calling the Sr. Pastor or an Associate pastor from a local church perspective. The Pulpit Committee is made of representatives from the congregation so it should have a good understanding on what the congregation is looking for. Ultimately, the presbytery approves the call of the pastor to a particular church. Most of the time, the presbytery will approve the call of a pastor. There may be times that the presbytery could not approve the call but in my presbytery I have not seen that happen. 

The Session is involved by presenting the recommendation of a pastor to the congregation by way of a congregational meeting. REs are on the pulpit committee along with the representatives of the congregation. 

Hope that helps.


----------



## Marrow Man (Nov 28, 2012)

Congregation. He should first be examined by the session and approved by the presbytery as to his qualifications, etc., but the vote to call is the congregations. This is one the matters that dear to Presbyterianism, in part because of matters involved in the controversy over the Patronage Act.


----------



## Alan D. Strange (Nov 28, 2012)

A pastor cannot be called without the agreement of session, congregation, and presbytery. They are coordinate in such agreement but it is the congregation that issues the call. The call does not come from the session or the presbytery, though both of those bodies must approve such a call. 

I would not put it in terms of the congregation having "the final vote" as all three must agree, but it is correct to say, as noted, that the congregation is the calling body. This coordinate action is part of the genius of Presbyterianism: church governors are never imposed upon a people, but are chosen by the people, in agreement with those already holding office (on the session or in the presbytery). Pastors are called by those qualified by presbytery and by a congregation called to meet by the session. Elders are presented by the session and selected by the congregation. Thus the interests of all proper parties are upheld in the selection of office-bearers. Those who teach otherwise (that the local elders have the decisive say in calling a minister, for instance) betray this central principle of presbyterian government. 

Peace,
Alan


----------



## Quatchu (Nov 28, 2012)

What if despite the BCO the session installs a Pastor without including the congregation?


----------



## matt01 (Nov 28, 2012)

Quatchu said:


> What if despite the BCO the session installs a Pastor without including the congregation?



Not what you are asking, but would this be similar to the assistant pastor-which the congregation doesn't vote on?


----------



## Quatchu (Nov 28, 2012)

Yes.


----------



## nicnap (Nov 28, 2012)

Justin, in the PCA you have the rare bird called the assistant pastor -- he is brought on by the session and can have his position terminated by the session. This is not the same (in title) as the associate pastor -- who has to be voted on by the congregation. I believe the assistant is only considered staff, and not a member of session. I don't find this to be in keeping with being Presbyterian, but it is a reality in the PCA.


----------



## Alan D. Strange (Nov 28, 2012)

As has been noted, the Session, in the PCA, can hire the Assistant Pastor (although in terms of budget that should be approved by the congregation).

However, the Session may not "install" an Associate Pastor or Pastor, as only the Presbytery can install such, upon the approval of a call by the congregation (which has sessional approval as well). 

Peace,
Alan


----------



## Romans922 (Nov 28, 2012)

You are asking 'should' and perhaps it SHOULD be 'what is allowed in the PCA'. 

Here's is what the PCA Book of Church Order says:

*CHAPTER 20*
_ The Election of Pastors

_
*20-1.* Before a candidate, or licentiate, can be ordained to the office of the 
ministry, he must receive a call to a definite work. Ordinarily the call must 
come from a church, Presbytery, or the General Assembly of this 
denomination. If the call comes from another source, the Presbytery shall 
always make a record of the reasons why it considers the work to be a valid 
Christian ministry. (See also BCO 8-7 and 21-1). 
A proper call must be written and in the hands of the Presbytery prior 
to being acted upon by a Presbytery. It must include financial arrangements 
(such as salary, vacation, insurance, retirement, etc.) between those calling 
and the one called, and assurance that the definite work will afford the liberty 
to proclaim and practice fully and freely the whole counsel of God, as 
contained in the Scriptures and understood in the Westminster Confession of 
Faith. It shall be in accord with the BCO 8. 
*
20-2.* Every church should be under the pastoral oversight of a minister, 
and when a church has no pastor it should seek to secure one without delay. 
A church shall proceed to elect a pastor in the following manner: 
The Session shall call a congregational meeting to elect a pulpit committee 
which may be composed of members from the congregation at large or the 
Session, as designated by the congregation (see BCO 25). The pulpit 
committee shall, after consultation and deliberation, recommend to the 
congregation a pastoral candidate who, in its judgment, fulfills the 
Constitutional requirements of that office (e.g., BCO 8, 13-6 and 21) and is 
most suited to be profitable to the spiritual interests of the congregation (cf. 
BCO 20-6). 
The Session shall order a congregational meeting to convene at the 
regular place of worship. Public notice of the time, place, and purpose of this 
meeting shall be given at least one week prior to the time of the meeting. 
*
20-3. *When a congregation is convened for the election of a pastor it is 
important that they should elect a minister of the Presbyterian Church in 
America to preside, but if this be impracticable, they may elect any male 
member of that church. The Session shall appoint one of their number to call 
the meeting to order and to preside until the congregation shall elect their 
presiding officer. All communing members in good and regular standing, but 
no others, are entitled to vote in the churches to which they are respectively 
attached. 

*20-4.* Method of voting: The voters being convened, and prayer for divine 
guidance having been offered, the moderator shall put the question: 
*
Are you ready to proceed to the election of a pastor? *

If they declare themselves ready, the moderator shall call for nominations, or 
the election may proceed by ballot without nominations. In every case a 
majority of all the voters present shall be required to elect. 

*20-5.* On the election of a pastor, if it appears that a large minority of the voters 
are averse to the candidate who has received a majority of votes, and cannot be 
induced to concur in the call, the moderator shall endeavor to dissuade the majority 
from prosecuting it further; but if the electors be nearly or quite unanimous, or if 
the majority shall insist upon their right to call a pastor, the moderator shall 
proceed to draw a call in due form, and to have it subscribed by them, certifying at 
the same time in writing the number of those who do not concur in the call, and 
any facts of importance, all of which proceedings shall be laid before the 
Presbytery, together with the call. 

*20-6.* Form of call: The terms of the call shall be approved by the 
congregation in the following or like form: 


* The ____________________ Church being on sufficient grounds well *
*satisfied of the ministerial qualifications of you, ____________, and having *
*good hopes from our knowledge of your labors that your ministrations in the *
*Gospel will be profitable to our spiritual interests, do earnestly call you to *
*undertake the pastoral office in said congregation, promising you, in the *
*discharge of your duty, all proper support, encouragement and obedience in *
*the Lord. That you may be free from worldly cares and avocations, we *
*hereby promise and oblige ourselves to pay you the sum of $___________ a *
*year in regular monthly (or quarterly) payments, and other benefits, such as, *
*manse, retirement, insurance, vacations, moving expenses etc., during the *
*time of your being and continuing the regular pastor of this church. *
* In testimony whereof we have respectively subscribed our names this *
*___________day of____________________, A.D.________. *
* Attest: I, having moderated the congregational meeting which *
*extended a call to ______________ for his ministerial services, do certify that *
*the call has been made in all respects according to the rules laid down in the *
*Book of Church Order, and that the persons who signed the foregoing call *
*were authorized to do so by vote of the congregation. *
* _________________________________ *
* Moderator of the Meeting *


*20-7.* If any church shall choose to designate its ruling elders and deacons, 
or a committee to sign its call, it shall be at liberty to do so. But it shall, in 
such case, be fully certified to the Presbytery by the minister or other person 
who presided, that the persons signing have been appointed for that purpose 
by a public vote of the church, and that the call has been in all other respects 
prepared as above directed. 

*20-8.* Prosecution of call: One or more commissioners shall be appointed 
by the church to present and prosecute the call before their Presbytery. 

*20-9.* When a pastor desires to accept a call to another Presbytery, he must 
be examined and approved by the Presbytery for the pastorate to which he is 
being called, and must be released for transfer by his present Presbytery from 
his pastorate. 

*20-10. *A congregation desiring to call a pastor from his charge, shall, by its 
commissioners to the Presbytery, prosecute the call before its Presbytery. 
The Presbytery, having heard all the parties, may, upon viewing the whole 
case, either recommend them to desist from prosecuting the call; or may 
order it to be delivered to the minister to whom it is addressed, with or 
without advice; or may decline to place the call in his hands; as it shall 
appear most beneficial for the peace and edification of the Church at large. 
No pastor shall be transferred without his own consent, if the parties 
are not ready to have the matter decided at the meeting then in progress, a 
written citation shall be given the minister and his church to appear before 
the Presbytery at its next meeting, which citation shall be read from the 
pulpit during a regular service, at least two weeks before the intended 
meeting. 


*20-11.* If the congregation or other field of labor to which a minister, 
licentiate, or candidate is called, be under the jurisdiction of a different 
Presbytery, on his acceptance of a call he shall be furnished with the proper 
testimonials, and required to repair immediately to the Presbytery, in order 
that he may be regularly inducted into his office. (See BCO 21). 

*20-12.* A candidate or licentiate found fit and called (in accordance with 
BCO 20-1) for missionary service by a missionary agency or Presbytery shall 
be examined by Presbytery for ordination. If approved the Presbytery shall 
proceed to his ordination. 

*20-13.* A missionary who is an ordained teaching elder in another 
denomination found fit and called (in accordance with BCO 20-1) for 
missionary service by a missionary agency or Presbytery shall be examined 
by Presbytery for admission to Presbytery in accordance with BCO 13-6. If 
approved he shall be enrolled as a member of Presbytery. 

*CHAPTER 21*
_The Ordination and Installation of Ministers

_
*21-1*. No minister, licentiate or candidate shall receive a call from a church 
but by the permission of his Presbytery. When a call has been presented to 
the Presbytery, if found in order and the Presbytery deems it for the good of 
the Church, they shall place it in the hands of the person to whom it is 
addressed.

*CHAPTER 22*
_The Pastoral Relations_

*22-1.* The various pastoral relations are pastor, associate pastor, and 
assistant pastor. 

*22-2.* The pastor and associate pastor are elected by the congregation using 
the form of call in BCO 20-6. Being elected by the congregation, they 
become members of the Session. 

*22-3.* An assistant pastor is called by the Session, by the permission and 
approval of Presbytery, under the provisions of BCO 20-1 and 13-2, with 
Presbytery membership being governed by the same provisions that apply to 
pastors. He is not a member of the Session, but may be appointed on special 
occasions to moderate the Session under the provisions of BCO 12-4. 

*22-4.* The relationship of the associate pastor to the church is determined 
by the congregation. The relationship of the assistant pastor to the church is 
determined by the Session. The dissolution of the relationship of both is 
governed by the provision of BCO 23. 

*22-5.* In order to provide necessary changes in pastorates, a temporary 
relation may be established between a church and a minister called Stated 
Supply. If a church is unable to secure a regular pastor or a Stated Supply, 
then the Session with approval of Presbytery may establish a temporary 
relation between the church and a licentiate called Student Supply or Ruling 
Elder Supply. 

*22-6. *Such temporary relationships can take place at the invitation of the 
church Session to the minister of the Word, the licentiate, or the ruling elder. 
The length of the relationship will be determined by the Session and the 
minister, the licentiate, or the ruling elder, with the approval of the 
Presbytery. Stated supply, student supply, or ruling elder supply 
relationships will be for no longer than one year, renewable at the request of 
the Session and at the review of the Presbytery. (See also BCO 19-1).


----------



## SeanPatrickCornell (Nov 28, 2012)

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between a congregation and a session? I know what a presbytery is, but I thought a session was the same thing as a congregation.

Thanks for the patience.


----------



## Quatchu (Nov 28, 2012)

I completely understand now.


----------



## fredtgreco (Nov 28, 2012)

SeanPatrickCornell said:


> Pardon my ignorance, but what is the difference between a congregation and a session? I know what a presbytery is, but I thought a session was the same thing as a congregation.
> 
> Thanks for the patience.



The session is the group of elders in a congregation.


----------



## SeanPatrickCornell (Nov 28, 2012)

Thank you very much.


----------



## tangleword (Nov 28, 2012)

Re:#5
I think in the OPC, though a rarity, the statement that "the pastor cannot be called without agreement of session, conregation and presbytery" is not entirely accurate. The BOCO specifically allows for a pastor to be called without agreement of the session (though I am sure rare, and hard to due): 
"When a congregation desires to call a pastor it shall ordinarily choose a special committee from its own membership to assist it in selecting him. If the committee is not identical with the session, invitations to preach to the congregation shall be issued only with the approval of the session. *No person shall be called by the congregation without the prior approval of the session, except that any ten members entitled to vote or one-fifth of all those entitled to vote, which ever be the larger number, may present a nomination to the congregation, such nomination having been previously submitted to the special committee for its consideration.*

Seems like in OPC at least, the congregation and presbytery have to be in agreement, and generally the session does, but not always.


----------



## Alan D. Strange (Nov 28, 2012)

Jason:

I was laying down the general rules for such in Presbyterianism and not choosing to complicate things by that little OPC demurral. The brother asking was from the PCA so in this case I chose to answer more generally and not mention the OPC (what I take to be an) oddity. This is not only rare but likely to engender Presbytery opposition to the candidate (in the absence of sessional support). 

The general Presbyterian principle is, in the case of the call of a minister, that presbytery, session, and congregation agree, even as in the case of the ordination and installation of ruling elders and deacons that session and congregation agree.

Peace,
Alan


----------



## Edward (Nov 28, 2012)

Alan D. Strange said:


> (although in terms of budget that should be approved by the congregation)



I'm not sure that that is correct. The budget doesn't come before the congregation, and my understanding is that the review and recommendations by the diaconate is a courtesy.


----------



## Alan D. Strange (Nov 28, 2012)

Sorry, Edward. I did not check on that one. The budget would come before the congregation or corporation in the OPC. But I yield to you in terms of that in the PCA.

Peace,
Alan


----------



## Edward (Nov 29, 2012)

Alan D. Strange said:


> The budget would come before the congregation or corporation in the OPC.



It's always interesting to see the small differences between the various BCOs.


----------



## reformedminister (Nov 29, 2012)

In the Cumberland Presbyterian Church it is the session that issues the call, which is subject to the approval of presbytery. I am in agreement with this.


----------

