# Romans 2:13 and justification



## Monergism (Mar 3, 2005)

> for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. -Romans 2:13



I'm wondering what "justification" means in this verse. Does it have the same meaning as it does in Romans 4? If so, why would be we justified more than once (once at regeneration and again at the final judgment)? I understand that the text is saying that "those who do the law will be justified," as opposed to saying "doing the law makes your justified." However, why does it say that the doers _will be_ justified? Seems like the doers of the law are already justified. Anyone wanna comment?


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## Roldan (Mar 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Monergism_
> 
> 
> > for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. -Romans 2:13
> ...



I think if we look at the context starting at verse 1, I find striking similarity from what Paul is saying here with what James says about Faith without works is dead. I don't see a future justification here at all, all I see is that Paul is telling these Jews who have the law and are zealous for it and point fingers and judge the Gentiles but that they don't practice them correctly, I wouldn't say they didn't practice them at all but not up to the standards that they themselves have set. So therefor I see Paul saying "YO! law keeping jews its don't matter if you know about the law but what matter is if you actually do them to show it is written in the heart, aight? My gheto version bible, hehehehe

Hope that made some sense.


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## fredtgreco (Mar 30, 2005)

Calvin:



> 13. For the hearers of the law, etc. This anticipates an objection which the Jews might have adduced. As they had heard that the law was the rule of righteousness, (Deuteronomy 4:1,) they gloried in the mere knowledge of it: to obviate this mistake, he declares that the hearing of the law or any knowledge of it is of no such consequence, that any one should on that account lay claim to righteousness, but that works must be produced, according to this saying, "He who will do these shall live in them." The import then of this verse is the following, -- "That if righteousness be sought from the law, the law must be fulfilled; for the righteousness of the law consists in the perfection of works." They who pervert this passage for the purpose of building up justification by works, deserve most fully to be laughed at even by children. It is therefore improper and beyond what is needful, to introduce here a long discussion on the subject, with the view of exposing so futile a sophistry: for the Apostle only urges here on the Jews what he had mentioned, the decision of the law, -- That by the law they could not be justified, except they fulfilled the law, that if they transgressed it, a curse was instantly pronounced on them. Now we do not deny but that perfect righteousness is prescribed in the law: but as all are convicted of transgression, we say that another righteousness must be sought. Still more, we can prove from this passage that no one is justified by works; for if they alone are justified by the law who fulfill the law, it follows that no one is justified; for no one can be found who can boast of having fulfilled the law.


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## Roldan (Mar 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> Calvin:
> 
> 
> ...




WOW that was beautiful.

I also liked this:




> They who pervert this passage for the purpose of building up justification by works, deserve most fully to be laughed at even by children.


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## fredtgreco (Mar 30, 2005)

That's why I posted it. Why take my simple-simon stuff when you can see Calvin's.


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## Puritan Sailor (Mar 30, 2005)

Interesting that the FV's and Shepard don't like quoting Calvin on that point eh?


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## fredtgreco (Mar 30, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> Interesting that the FV's and Shepard don't like quoting Calvin on that point eh?



Why quote Calvin when you can quote Jim Jordan and Nevin?


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## The Lamb (Mar 30, 2005)

I also Love Gill on this. But then again, I am "Hyper" 

Ver. 12. For as many as have sinned without law,.... This is an instance of the strict justice of God, and proves him to be no respecter of persons; for the Gentiles, who were "without law", the written law of Moses, not without the law of nature in their breasts, nor without some civil laws and statutes of their own; inasmuch as they "sinned" against the God of nature, and the law and light of nature, they

shall also perish without law: not that their condemnation and perdition will be illegal, or not in due course of law; but it will not proceed upon, or according to the law of Moses, they never had; and much less for not believing in Christ, of whom they never heard; but their perdition will be for their sins committed without the law of Moses, against the law of nature: their not having the written law of Moses will be no plea in their favour, or be a reason why they should not be condemned; their persons will not be regarded as with or without the law, but their sins committed by them, to which facts their consciences will bear witness:

and, so on the other hand,

as many as have sinned in the law; who have been in and under the law of Moses, and have sinned against it, meaning the Jews:

shall be judged by the law; and condemned by it, as they were in this world, and will be hereafter: their having this law will be no bar against their condemnation, but rather an aggravation of it; their hearing of it will be no plea in their favour; nor their doing of it neither, unless they could have done it to perfection; for perfect obedience it requires, as a justifying righteousness, otherwise it curses, condemns, and adjudges to death.


Romans 2:13

Ver. 13. For not the hearers of the law are just before God,.... The apostle here shows, that the Jews were justly condemned, notwithstanding their having and hearing of the law; since hearing without doing it, will never denominate persons righteous in the sight of God, however it might recommend them in the sight of men: regard seems to be had either to the first delivery of the law by Moses to the people of Israel, when he read it to them, and they hearkened to it, and promised obedience; or rather to the reading and hearing it every sabbath day; and may include a speculative knowledge of it, without a practical obedience to it; and which therefore must fall greatly short of entitling them to a justifying righteousness; since not these,

but the doers of the law, shall be justified; by whom are meant, not such who merely literally and externally fulfil the law, as they imagine; for the law is spiritual, and regards the inward as well as the outward man, and requires internal holiness, as well as external obedience; and the apostle is speaking of justification before God, who sees the heart, and not before men, who judge according to outward appearance: nor are such designed who are imperfect doers of the law; for the law requires a perfect obedience, and what is not perfect is not properly righteousness; nor does it, nor can it consider an imperfect righteousness as a perfect one; for it accuses of, pronounces guilty, curses, and condemns for every transgression of it. But such only can be intended, who are doers of it spiritually, internally, as well as externally, and that perfectly. Adam, in his state of innocence, was a perfect doer of the law; he sinning, and all his posterity in him, none of them are righteous, but all pass under a sentence of condemnation. The best of men, even believers in Christ, are not without sin in themselves; and when any of the saints are said to be perfect, it must be understood in a comparative sense, or as they are considered in Christ. There never was but one since Adam, and that is Christ, who has fulfilled, or could perfectly fulfil the law; the thing is impossible and impracticable for fallen man: hence these words must be understood either hypothetically, thus, not the hearers of the law, but if there were any perfect doers of it, they would be justified before God; or else of such persons who are considered in Christ, by whom the whole perfect righteousness of the law is fulfilled in them, and who may be reckoned as perfect doers of it in him, their substitute, surety, and representative.



In His Grace


Joseph


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## Philip A (Apr 1, 2005)

Calvin:



> 13. They who pervert this passage for the purpose of building up justification by works, deserve most fully to be laughed at even by children.





Ah, Reformation polemics at it best! How could you not LOVE Calvin?!


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