# God...who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth



## Pergamum (Feb 21, 2015)

"God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."—1 Timothy 2:3, 4.


I am looking for the best Reformed treatments (particularly in sermons) of this text. And also the variety of interpretations among the Reformed concerning this text. Has the interpretation been largely monolithic, or do we see different reformed men differing within the reformed tradition concerning this text?


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## whirlingmerc (Feb 21, 2015)

I think there are a variety of views

One view is all is 'all sorts of men' or 'all the elect'. All is ambiguous. I think RC Sproul is in this direction. ( And maybe John Owen as well? )
One view is that God may have differing desires or differnent levels of will. I think John Piper is in this direction. (like a teacher who would love to give everyone in a class an A but knows for other reasons that shouldn't happen. My example not his )


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## SeanAnderson (Feb 21, 2015)

1 Timothy 2:4 Commentaries: who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.

A few commentaries for the verse on this page. Notably, Matthew Poole takes the line of the two modes of God's will: decretive (election and reprobation) and complacential (repentance and life of a sinner is pleasing to God).

John Gill takes the line that God desires all kinds of men to be saved.

These seem to be the two views espoused by Calvinistic commentators.


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## Contra_Mundum (Feb 21, 2015)

(despite posting this comment from the highly regarded PF, I continue to take a view closer to *Calvin*, that "all sorts of men" is the apostle's intention)

Patrick *Fairbairn*, on 1 Timothy 2:3-4:

Vers. 3, 4. _For this_—namely, to make intercession to God in behalf of kings, of rulers generally, and of men of all sorts—_is good and acceptable before our Saviour God,_—a thing which in His reckoning is good, and is sure of meeting with His approval: for there seems no need for confining the _before God_ to the latter epithet alone; it should be connected as well with what is good as what is acceptable, though things really and properly good are such also apart from Him. But by placing both epithets in connection with God, it is more distinctly implied that they are to be taken in their fullest import. (Ἀποδεκτός is found in New Testament only here and at 1Tim.6:14.)

Then follows the reason why such conduct meets with God’s approval as right and proper: _who willeth all men to be saved, and to come to the fill knowledge of the truth_—ἐπίγνωσιν, knowledge in the fuller sense, knowledge that reaches its end, _saving knowledge;_ and the governing verb, it will be observed, is θέλει, not the stronger (βούλεται, which would have expressed _will_ with an implied purpose or intent (see at 1Tim.2:8). Nothing can be better than the comment of *Chrysostom* here:


> “Imitate God. If He is willing that all men should be saved, it is meet to pray for all. If He willed that all should be saved, do thou also will it; but if thou willest, pray; for it is the part of such to pray. . . . But if God wills it, you will say, what need is there for my prayers? This is of great benefit both for you and for them: it draws _them_ to love; thyself, again, it prevents from being treated as a wild beast; and such things are fitted to allure them to faith.”



There seems no need for going beyond this practical aspect of the matter; and either to press the passage on the one side, with some, to universalism,—as if it bespoke the comprehension of all within God’s purpose of salvation,—or, on the other, to limit it, so as to make, not strictly all men, but only all sorts of men (with *Calvin* and others), the object of the good contemplated, is equally to strain the natural import of the words. It seems to me unnatural to understand the _all men,_ twice so distinctly and emphatically expressed, as indicative of anything but mankind generally—men not merely without distinction of class or nation, but men at large, who certainly, as such, are to be prayed for. As the objects of the church’s intercessions, there can be no difference drawn between one portion and another; and we are expressly taught to plead for all, because it is the will of God that they should be saved —σωθῆναι: not His will absolutely to save them, as if the word had been σώσαι; but that they may be brought through the knowledge and belief of the truth into the state of the saved.

And the whole character of the gospel of Christ, with its universal call to repent, its indiscriminate offers of pardon to the penitent, and urgent entreaties to lay hold of the hope set before them, is framed on very purpose—to give expression to that will; for, surely, in pressing such things on men’s acceptance, yea, and holding them disobedient to His holy will, and liable to aggravated condemnation, if they should _refuse_ to accept, God cannot intend to mock them with a mere show and appearance of some great reality being brought near to them. No; there is the manifestation of a benevolent desire that they should not die in sin, but should come to inherit salvation (as at Ezk.33:11), if only they will do it in the way that alone is consistent with the principles of His moral government and the nature of Christ’s mediation. This, necessarily, is implied; and it is the part of the church, by her faithful exhibition of the truth in Christ, by her personal strivings with the souls of men, and earnest prayers in their behalf, to give practical effect to this message of goodwill from Heaven to men, and to do it in the spirit of tenderness and affection which itself breathes.

Such appears to be the fair and natural interpretation of the apostle’s declaration, and the whole that it properly calls us to intermeddle with. It is true that all whom God wills to be thus entreated and prayed for shall not actually be saved—not even many who have enjoyed in the highest degree the means and opportunities of such dealing. And seeing, as God does, the end from the beginning, knowing perfectly beforehand whom He has, and whom He has not destined to salvation, grave questions are ready to arise as to whether the work of Christ can be really sufficient to meet the emergency occasioned by the ruin of sin, or whether God be sincere in seeking through His church the salvation of all,—questions which touch upon the deep things of God, and which it is impossible for us, with the materials we now possess, to answer satisfactorily to the speculative reason

Knowing who and what He is with whom in such things we have to do, we should rest assured that His procedure will be in truth and uprightness; and that the mysteries which meanwhile appear to hang around it will be solved to the conviction of every reasonable mind, when the proper time for doing so shall have arrived. But enough is known for present duty. God has unfolded for one and all alike the terms of reconciliation: He is willing, nay desirous, for His own glory’s sake, that men should everywhere embrace them; and for this end has committed to His church the ministry of reconciliation, charging it upon the conscience of her members to strive and pray that all without exception be brought to the saving knowledge of the truth. What more can be required for faith to rest on, and for the intercessions and labours of an earnest ministry?​


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## Pergamum (Feb 21, 2015)

I was reading Spurgeon's sermon on this, an here is his quote:



> You must, most of you, be acquainted with the general method in which our older Calvinistic friends deal with this text. "All men," say they, - "that is, some men": as if the Holy Ghost could not have said "some men" if he had meant some men. "All men," say they; "that is, some of all sorts of men": as if the Lord could not have said "all sorts of men" if he had meant that. The Holy Ghost by the apostle has written "all men," and unquestionably he means all men. I know how to get rid of the force of the "alls" according to that critical method which some time ago was very current, but I do not see how it can be applied here with due regard to truth. I was reading just now the exposition of a very able doctor who explains the text so as to explain it away; he applies grammatical gunpowder to it, and explodes it by way of expounding it. I thought when I read his exposition that it would have been a very capital comment upon the text if it had read, "Who will not have all men to be saved, nor come to a knowledge of the truth." Had such been the inspired language every remark of the learned doctor would have been exactly in keeping, but as it happens to say, "who will have all men to be saved," his observations are more than a little out of place. My love of consistency with my own doctrinal views is not great enough to allow me knowingly to alter a single text of Scripture. I have great respect for orthodoxy, but my reverence for inspiration is far greater. I would sooner a hundred times over appear to be inconsistent with myself than be inconsistent with the Word of God. I never thought it to be any very great crime to seem to be inconsistent with myself, for whom am I that I should everlastingly be consistent? But I do think it a great crime to be so inconsistent with the Word of God that I should want to lop away a bough or even a twig from so much as a single tree of the forest of Scripture. God forbid that I should cut or shape, even in the least degree, any divine expression. So runs the text, and so we must read it, "God our Savior; who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth."



(Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 26, Pilgrim Publications, p.50.)


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## PaulMc (Feb 23, 2015)

If 'all men' in verses 1 and 4 are inclusive of all people everywhere, then would the 'all' of verse 6 not require the same ("who gave himself a ransom for all")?



whirlingmerc said:


> One view is all is 'all sorts of men' or 'all the elect'. All is ambiguous. I think RC Sproul is in this direction. ( And maybe John Owen as well? )



Yes, I'm fairly certain that John Owen took the view of 'all sorts of men' from the context of verses 1 and 2 (see _The Death of Death in the Death of Christ_).


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## aadebayo (Feb 24, 2015)

I believe that this text should be looked at in the context of the surrounding verses. Let me take it from verses 1 - 4 of the chapter. It reads 


> 1 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
> 2 For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
> 3 For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;
> 4 Who will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth.
> ...



Paul exhorts prayer for all men, which includes Kings and those in authority, for the purpose of leading quiet and peaceable lives. The second part of verse 2 shows that all men in verse 1, literally means all men. Then verse 3 tells us the reason for verses 1 and 2, which because such is good and pleasing to God. Then verse 4 contains the text in discussion, which leads to verse 5 that introduces the means by which the God's will in verse 4 is to be accomplished. Then verse 6 concludes with what was done to ensure that what was willed in verse 4 comes to pass. 

The context shows that verse 4 refers to all sorts of men. A better understanding of this text can be derived from 2nd Peter 3:9, which reads


> 9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.


 The question that could be asked in this text is who is God referring to in this part of the verse?


> not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance


The answer to this can be found in the previous verse, which reads


> But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.


 Note the second word in this verse,


> beloved


 So the


> all should come to repentance


 in verse 9 refers to


> beloved


in verse 8, which refers to those whom Peter was addressing in the first 2 verses of this chapter. Those verses read


> This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance: 2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:


In conclusion as I concur that the text refers to all types of men.


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## Pergamum (Feb 24, 2015)

Sproul defends the "all sorts of men" view here: God's Desire to Save | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org

Yet then his very last paragraph is as follows:



> Part of our imitation of Christ includes a desire that all people come to salvation. Too often we lack this desire because we have not considered how terrible hell will be and have not remembered often enough that eternal punishment is the fate of all those who are apart from the true God. Let us pray daily that the Lord would give us a desire for everyone we know to be saved, even those people who can be considered our enemies.



Is this inconsistent with his view?

I believe that the "all sorts of men" view is correct, but I also believe there is a sense in which God desires the salvation of all men (though He does not decree or arrange all things that He is said to desire).


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## R Harris (Feb 24, 2015)

I Timothy 2:1-6 has to be viewed in its entire context. How does Paul begin? With an exhortation to pray for kings and all those in authority, in order that we may lead quiet and peaceful lives. 

Note carefully that Paul does not provide a prescriptive script as to _what_ we are to pray _for_. That is where verse 4 comes into play and is so crucial to understand!

In order to live quiet and peaceful lives, we pray for the _conversion_ of kings and those in authority so that they can carry out their mandate from Isaiah 49:23 to be "foster fathers" and the queens to be "nursing mothers." They are to support the Church in any possible way so that it can _peacefully_ continue its mission to expand the Kingdom and disciple the nations.

So God desires all _classes _ of men - yes, even and _especially_ kings and those in authority - to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.


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## Pergamum (Feb 24, 2015)

Yes, 

Again, I believe that the "all sorts of men" view is correct, but I also believe there is a sense in which God desires the salvation of all men (though He does not decree or arrange all things that He is said to desire). This would appear to assert that God possesses unfulfilled wishes.


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## earl40 (Feb 24, 2015)

Pergamum said:


> Sproul defends the "all sorts of men" view here: God's Desire to Save | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org
> 
> Yet then his very last paragraph is as follows:
> 
> ...



We should be like Jesus (in His humanity) in that we should desire all men to come. In stating this I believe that Our Lord could desire all men to come to Him and offer Himself for them to believe in Him, but of course Our Lord trusted His Father to lead only those He elected to come as seen in John 17. I do believe there are a few examples of a contrary will in Jesus so far as what should be done in a God given natural sense. 

I hope I am not off base here.


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## Pergamum (Feb 24, 2015)

earl40 said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > Sproul defends the "all sorts of men" view here: God's Desire to Save | Reformed Bible Studies & Devotionals at Ligonier.org
> ...



Earl,

You said:


> We should be like Jesus (in His humanity) in that we should desire all men to come.



Is there a need to add the phrase "(in His humanity)" when we speak of God's desire for men to be saved? Is it possible for the Father and Spirit to differ in this? Can we gain any insight into the "heart" of the Father from the parable of the Prodigal Son?


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