# Acts and socialism



## sola_gratia (Feb 22, 2006)

Some Christians around where I live have been advocating socialism/communism lately. It really has me all confused. Feel free to move this topic, but I posted it here because they argued that the early church in acts was socialist. I was told we could have God's moral law, and still function as a socialist/communist nation. I've seen some arguments against communism, but only arguments against atheists promoting it. 

And they have some quotes that I was able to find online I was shown:

"Nothing is easier than to give Christian asceticism a Socialist tinge. Has not Christianity declaimed against private property, against marriage, against the state? Has it not preached in the place of these, charity and poverty, celibacy and mortification of the flesh, monastic life and Mother Church? Christian Socialism is but the holy water with which the priest consecrates the heart-burnings of the aristocrat."
-Karl Marx

I'm not buying it, but still I am confused. And I am not sure where it is wrong. So any help would be great.


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## Puritanhead (Feb 22, 2006)

"Thou shall not steal." --Four words that prove God is anti-communist
:bigsmile:



Marx also said, "Religion is the opium of the masses," and part of the bourgeosie superstructure of class oppression. I wouldn't put much stock into what he says. Gorbachev found it fashionable to avow atheism and lay hold of Jesus Christ, and say he was the first socialist.


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## satz (Feb 22, 2006)

Since when do we give any regard to what Karl Marx has to say?

The fact the Marx in the same line also speaks against marriage and the state prove his words to be rubbish.

1 Tim 6:17-19 shows that Paul envisioned there would continue to be some rich christians around.


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## Contra_Mundum (Feb 22, 2006)

What Christians do or ought to do, in sharing their worldly goods with one another as members of one extended family united to Christ, in no way invalidates private property. "While it remained, did it not remain thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thy power?" Acts 5:4.

Socialism is a philosophical system that leads to the creation or implementation of certian forms of government coersion. Socialism uses the overwhelming force of the state to compel equalities, to enforce "sharing" and non-disparate outcomes, at least in theory.

In fact, sinners being who they are, scum ever rising to the top, Socialism breeds the most virulent forms of inequity faster than almost any other state structure. "All animals are equal; some are more equal than others." George Orwell's satire _Animal Farm_ was no caricature, but rather accurately described the Socialism that he could see in his day, as well as predict for all other Socialistic systems the same dismal results. His observations were validated for nearly 100 years without fail.

Socialism depends on command-theory. It presumes an omni-competent State (or other command center of some smaller social unit) possessed of omnisience and omnipotence in control of all the means of production. It then promises to produce everything necessary for life and happiness for those in its orbit. In other words, the State is god.

Voluntary communes are fine. No one is holding a gun to these people's heads forcing them to work as directed, be educated as directed, surrender their crops or earnings as directed, etc. The inefficiencies of such structures (in the absence of physical pressure or brutality) cause them to remain--where voluntarily arising--small and ordinarily specialized. Think "Shaker furniture". The appeal remains small, and may draw a continual trickle of converts to that way of life.

Socialism is a hermaphrodite--neither monarchical, nor democratic, nor presbyterial, nor familial; theoretically promoting beneficial qualities of other forms, but in reality an unstable mix with mutated DNA. It is ultimately sterile and futureless, and based on the most faulty view of human nature.

Reactions: Like 1


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## matt01 (Feb 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by satz_
> Since when do we give any regard to what Karl Marx has to say?


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## rmwilliamsjr (Feb 22, 2006)

socialism is divided into as many competing pieces as modern Protestantism.
There are however at least two major streams, the Marxist and the utopians, for want of better labels. The marxists get all the attention having seized power in Russia, China, for example. the utopian socialists are much less known.

They vary from the Bruderhof, the kibutz in Israel, early Mormons experiments, often are religious based, always have serious problems and seldom last more than a few years. Size seems to matter, a lot, the surviving communities are always small, often under assault from the larger outside world. 

there are several good books on the topic, but start with googling "utopian socialists"


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## satz (Feb 22, 2006)

> _Originally posted by matthew_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by satz_
> > Since when do we give any regard to what Karl Marx has to say?



oops! 

*hides*

Well, Paul could say 'even your own poets have said..' so there's certainly wisdom we can gain from wise men of the worldly sort.

That quote however, in my humble opinion, is not one of those times.


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