# Dungeons & Dragons



## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 16, 2005)

I would be interested to know the thoughts of my PB brethren on roleplaying games such as Dungeons &amp; Dragons. What say ye?


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## satz (Jul 16, 2005)

while i am not opposed to either role-playing or fantasy per se, the fantasy elements of dnd are far too occultish to provide for permissible entertainment for christians, including as it does ( if my memory does not fail me ) spellcasting, worship of gods/demons, ability to play evil characters etc.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 16, 2005)

Way back, I always wanted to get into it, but no-one around me was into it. Then later I began to think that perhaps God had preserved me from getting immersed in it. I settled for Fantasy/SciFi novels. Today, with the complexity of computer games that make D&D look like CandyLand, I wonder about all that Christian angst from the '80s. Was it way over-the-top or was it prophetic?

The big things back then were 1) the obvious occult research that went into certain aspects of the game. The serious player (I think) was on the fringe of some stuff beyond imagination and board game. 2) the amoral aspect--you were expected to function and act according to a "fantasy-world" ethic (if there was such). The game was pretty much "value-free" which is to say it had only as much good/evil as the player (or DM) made of it. The typical teen-ager, in the last two generations hasn't had trancendent absolutes enforced upon his conscience for "real-world" behavior, and the game set him free to thought-experiment with all manner of moral-codes, or no morals at all, without ethical consequences, and even with rewards. Pragmatism and relativism were the real winners, philosophically. _I don't think D&D was a catalyst for that. I think it was just a symptom of it._

Today, hardly anyone even asks those questions anymore. Treasure quests are tame. Now it's world domination, or ultimate power. You can still be anything you like, human and otherwise; you can rape and pilliage if that's your thing. But if D&D was forcing questions out 25 years ago, now I hear no more questions...


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 17, 2005)

Good points, gentlemen. Thanks. 

I was heavily involved in D&D as a teenager. I used to carry a pouch containing twenty-sided dice everywhere and would often spend my free time drawing dungeon maps. When my eyes were opened to the occultic nature of the game as a young believer, I rejected it utterly. Nowadays, I would not play it at all, nor allow my children to do so, but I can discern (lawful) good aspects within the game from the (chaotic) bad. 

[Edited on 7-17-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## Peter (Jul 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Good points, gentlemen. Thanks.
> 
> I was heavily involved in D&D as a teenager. I used to carry a pouch containing twenty-sided dice everywhere and would often spend my free time drawing dungeon maps. When my eyes were opened to the occultic nature of the game as a young believer, I rejected it utterly. Nowadays, I would not play it at all, nor allow my children to do so, but I can discern *(lawful) good* aspects within the game from the *(chaotic) bad*.



D&D humor?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



Yep!


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## Puritanhead (Jul 17, 2005)

Such games are "of the devil..." as my grandmother would say.... Evil I say, EVIL!!!! These deviant games put you in bondage to demonic minions and of course nerdy friends and before you know it you-- you will start collecting $750 jeweled broadswords and sheaths purportedly from the ancient land of Yarm! Stay away from that stuff.


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## satz (Jul 17, 2005)

> These deviant games put you in bondage to demonic minions and of course nerdy friends



As someone else who was keenly interested but never got into these games, it seems ironic that while i never put much stock into the first part of the warning, it was the latter that served to keep me away.

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by satz]


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## Puritanhead (Jul 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> These deviant games put you in bondage to demonic minions and of course nerdy friends...





> _Originally posted by satz_
> As someone else who was keenly interested but never got into these games, it seems ironic that while i never put much stock into the first part of the warning, it was the latter that served to keep me away.





[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Puritanhead]


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## LawrenceU (Jul 17, 2005)

They are of no use other than to waste time, energy, and introduce people to the occult. I used to play. One of the worst decisions in my life.


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## cupotea (Jul 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LawrenceU_
> They are of no use other than to waste time, energy, and introduce people to the occult.



That's my take, too. I actually only had the premises of the game explained to me several weeks ago, and I thought, _adults actually play this?_ I think it can be wholesome fun for young people(better than going out and actually doing bad things, like drinking and doing drugs) but the dude who was telling me about it was at least 40 and apparently got WAY too much entertainment from it, as did the people he played with. Our trainride took half an hour, and he spent _the whole time_ talking about it.

Anyway, what it symbolizes obviously isn't good, but it _can_ be the better of two evils (if, say, the other evil is going out to a club, getting drunk, and girrating or worse against a bunch of strangers). However, as Lawrence noted, there are better things someone can do with his time, like read a good book.
-------
Just as an aside, WOOHOO!!!  Can you understand how long I've been trying to get that avatar to work? Since 11-11-2003... Finally! YAY!!!

[Edited on 7-18-2005 by Cottonball]


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## LawrenceU (Jul 18, 2005)

For the record, I was in high school and college when I played - back before the Reformation.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Jul 18, 2005)

I have never really played it but I think a rather big problem with it is it is designed to take a lot of time and energy. You don't feel 'satisfied' until you have actually completed it (I am not sure about the exact rules although I have played games like it) and when you have completed it you can go again. The fun and the relaxation which we all need at times is found in the game but the time expenditure needed to extract this fun is wasteful. 

Like so many things it involves unGodly material but I think the biggest part is time management. That challenges me as when I was back into computers a lot I remember spending 12 hours (!) in one day on an internet game trying to sort something out. The game in itself was not all bad - indeed it taught me a lot and I am not sure I would be where I am now unless I had played that game for the many hours I did - but in the end there is a time and a place for everything and wastage of time is not very useful.


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## Scott (Jul 19, 2005)

> I have never really played it but I think a rather big problem with it is it is designed to take a lot of time and energy. You don't feel 'satisfied' until you have actually completed it (I am not sure about the exact rules although I have played games like it) and when you have completed it you can go again. The fun and the relaxation which we all need at times is found in the game but the time expenditure needed to extract this fun is wasteful.



Sounds like golf.


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## Reed (Jul 19, 2005)

From JC Ryle's Thoughts for Young Men:

Young men, time would not permit me to tell you all the fruits this love of pleasure produces, and all the ways in which it may do you harm. Why should I speak of carousing, partying, drinking, gambling, movie-going, dancing, and the like? There are few to be found who don't know something of these things by bitter experience. And these are only instances. All things that give a feeling of excitement for the time--all things that drown thought, and keep the mind in a constant whirl--all things that please the senses and delight the flesh--these are the sort of things that have mighty power at your time of life, and they owe their power to the love of pleasure. Be on your guard. Do not be like those of whom Paul speaks, "Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God" (2 Timothy 3:4).


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## Archlute (Jul 19, 2005)

Bad news, I Agree. I was introduced to the game (really a worldview) in 5th grade by a group of schoolmates in my neighborhood. We got totally hooked. I was the only Christian, so there was not as much restraint in play as there could have been, although I was able to exert some, but the fascination with the occult, fantastical creatures, sexually mature women, and the massive powers that players can attain to w/o moral strictures being set upon their usage was far too irresistible a temptation for unsupervised young men. 

I would also agree that these things are a tremendous waste of time, because when you get into D&D you open the door not only to that world, but also to a mind boggling array of other RPG's and their associated literature. If you become 'enchanted' by this world you'll have no end of material to keep you from living in the real one. It can become a serious addiction for those who are introverts. 

I've meet fellows like the man on the train mentioned above by GSH. It's pathetic. On our way down to Escondido, my family and I stopped at a motel just outside of Grapevine. There was a women working the desk who was at least in her mid to late forties. While she was assigning us a room she launches into this five minute monologue about how she's into some sort of game, and she's a class four elf named Starhawk with all of this history and spell casting ability, etc. I stood there thinking, "I'm a complete stranger; shouldn't you be telling me about your kids or something?" I really wanted to speak to her about the Gospel, but didn't even know where to begin - she was so in another world.

The root of the problem with these games is that they are a tool that encourages the individual to allow the sinful desires of their heart to rule in a false world where the True God ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT EXIST. If anything is lacking in this system of thought it is that. We become gods, and our choices rule. If you can do it without getting killed or eternally imprisoned, you may do as you please.


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## SRoper (Jul 19, 2005)

I've only played computer RPG's including some of the DnD ones. To be honest, _Faust_ got me far more curious about the occult than any RPG (by curious, I mean in an anthropological way). The RPGs are obviously mostly the imaginations of the designers and are rather one dimensional when compared to actual occult systems.

[Edited on 27-Mar-2006 by SRoper]


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