# When does headship transfer from father to husband?



## Arch2k (Oct 10, 2005)

Looking at Luke 2:1-5, Jospeh who was only betrothed to Mary at the time, left with Mary to be counted in the census. No longer was Mary counted under her father, but legally she were counted under the headship of Jospeh. They even *gasp* spent the night in a hotel together. Was there a wedding ceremony in there somewhere?



> 1 And it came to pass in those days that a decree went out from Caesar Augustus that all the world should be registered. 2 This census first took place while Quirinius was governing Syria. 3 So all went to be registered, everyone to his own city. 4 Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, to the city of David, which is called Bethlehem, because he was of the house and lineage of David, 5 to be registered with Mary, his betrothed wife, who was with child.



Also noting that William Gouge (he definately *was* a Westminster Divine  ) said the following concerning a contract to marry:



> 14. Of a contract what it is?
> II. When both parties have manifested a mutual liking each to other, and upon mature deliberation and good advice do conceive one to be a fit match for another, it is requisite that a joint consent and absolute promise of marrying one another before sufficient witnesses be made. This rightly made is a contract, which is the beginning of a marriage.



All this in mind, how does this affect a woman? At what point does she follow her husband as head vs. her father? At contraction or during the ceremony when the father "gives her away"?


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## LawrenceU (Oct 10, 2005)

The Hebrews of that period had a different view of marriage than we do today. Their customs and 'headship shift' would not be analogous to our day. Today it takes place when the pastor pronounces them 'man and wife.'


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## Arch2k (Oct 10, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LawrenceU_
> The Hebrews of that period had a different view of marriage than we do today. Their customs and 'headship shift' would not be analogous to our day. Today it takes place when the pastor pronounces them 'man and wife.'



Which day? The day of Mary and Joseph? Or the day of Gouge (17th Century)?


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## BrianBowman (Oct 10, 2005)

Alfred Edersheim has much to say in his "Sketches of Jewish Social Life" that is similiar to what Jeff writes concerning Gouge. In my opinion this is how we should approach things today.

Lawerence, I understand that what you write above is the "norm" for today - even in most conservative Christian communities. What is the Biblical precedent and cultural history for this?

[Edited on 10-10-2005 by BrianBowman]


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## Augusta (Oct 11, 2005)

When did the part in the marriage ceremony, of the father giving away the bride, begin? I know that betrothal used to be binding unlike today. Good questions.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 11, 2005)

There are certain circumstances that do cause the position of authority to transfer prematurely. I was engaged for two years, my parents had treated my husband as a third party to the two of them in deciding factors, I was tossed out of the house by my stepfather before marriage (due to hubby not having "made it" in the military and that we had not eloped as they apparently had hoped we would do). I came under my husband's authority at that time (but lived with another couple until our marriage). The first thing he did the day after I left home was to take me to pierce my ears (hmm, something biblically dejavu-ish about that).


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