# Knowing You're Saved



## blhowes (Dec 22, 2004)

*Knowing You\'re Saved*

I read an interesting short piece by John Piper called "The Agonizing Problem of the Assurance of Salvation".

I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts about a person's assurance of salvation? How does a person know if they have saving faith, and not the false faith of Matthew 7:21-23? 

If somebody you suspect is saved has doubts about their salvation, how would you counsel them? How important are fruits of salvation and would you ever tell the person that you see certain fruits and therefore suspect they're probably saved?

What are your favorite books you've read dealing with assurance of salvation?

[Edited on 12-22-2004 by blhowes]


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## blhowes (Dec 22, 2004)

Anybody familiar with Dr. John DeWitt? I'm listening to one of his sermons called 'WCF 18: The Assurance of Grace". Excellent!


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## Ianterrell (Dec 22, 2004)

Bob,

I've dealt with the question of assurance, and have tried to apply my scattered thoughts by counseling others in the past. It is an immensely painful dilemna to not have assurance and I think that's a valuable hurt. It causes us to feel the seriousness of redemption and damnation. But there is also an acute danger! Some are paralyzed at the point of introspection and fall into works righteousness, or spend a great amount of time depressed. 

I have a close friend who came to the conclusion that he had no love for Jesus Christ, though he had tried to go through the motions (and his motion was tepid at best). I was reluctant to voice any kind of judgment but through much prayer and conversation we were able to say clearly that this young man had not experienced the grace of Christ. We are part of a circle of friends that has decided to be a light to him. We continue to remind him of his personal need for repentence, and often invite him to visit our respective churches. We pray together for his conversion, and I hope that one day God will cause the light to shine in his heart.


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## Irishcat922 (Dec 22, 2004)

I think it comes down to Faith, do we believe what God has said or what our hearts and/or heads tell us? Or for that matter our circumstances.
1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.


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## blhowes (Dec 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Ianterrell_
> I've dealt with the question of assurance, and have tried to apply my scattered thoughts by counseling others in the past. It is an immensely painful dilemna to not have assurance and I think that's a valuable hurt. It causes us to feel the seriousness of redemption and damnation.


That's for sure, I'd much rather somebody felt the hurt and struggle with it, than to be neutral.



> _Originally posted by Ian_
> But there is also an acute danger! Some are paralyzed at the point of introspection and fall into works righteousness, or spend a great amount of time depressed.


I can see how that would be a tendancy. The scriptures talk of the fruits of the spirit and how we are new creatures in Christ. Not seeing any evidences could cause concern and undo introspection. 



> _Originally posted by Sean_
> I think it comes down to Faith, do we believe what God has said or what our hearts and/or heads tell us? Or for that matter our circumstances.
> 1Jo 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.


Along the same lines, I was thinking about what you and Ian were saying as I looked at 2 Peter 1, which talks about giving diligence to make you calling and election sure. The starting point is to have obtained the precious faith through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ (vs 1). 

When we build on that faith and add to the faith virture, knowledge, temperance, patience, godliness, brotherly kindness, and charity, we gain assurance. 

I thought verse 9 was interesting:

2Pe 1:9 But he that lacketh these things is blind, and cannot see afar off, and hath forgotten that he was purged from his old sins. 

If you have faith but don't use the means God has made available to add the other things, you may be saved, but its more difficult to see. Your sins are purged by Jesus, but you have little assurance.


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## fredtgreco (Dec 23, 2004)

Of assistance may be the practical syllogism:

1. Those who are saved without fail bear the fruit of the gospel in their lives.
2. I see the fruit of the gospel in my life
3. Therefore, I am saved.

That is the cliff's notes version.


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## Ivan (Dec 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> Of assistance may be the practical syllogism:
> 
> 1. Those who are saved without fail bear the fruit of the gospel in their lives.
> ...


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## JohnV (Dec 23, 2004)

Bob:

This has been a particularly difficult topic for me. With my present church bearing witness that I am not really spiritually with it, to put it publishable terms; and many friends leaving us, with definite grudges in place; it is a very, very important question to ask myself. Its vitally important to me. 

It's as easy and as hard as Fred put it. If you think its only easy, then you must be missing it; and if you think it is only hard, then too you must be missing it. And yet you wouldn't be missing the mark. Like Ian said, its not easy to pinpoint in generality. 

For me it has been the witness of the truth bearing out the things that I have believed to be true. Not a justifying of my beliefs to suit my faith, but the hard facts of life bearing out what I said I held to. For example, the fact that my opponents had to stoop to such low levels that I was severely taken aback by their actions; the fact that studies in other fields of discipline come to the very same conclusion; the fact that it is always a matter of what others believe, and not of my impositions on those beliefs, namely the witness of the fathers to their children in the historic writings of the Church fathers; the witness of others on this Board; the fact that my opinions can be defeated or refuted without any damage to the truth, but rather to the revealing of it for me and for all of us; and such like things. I am on trial in all of life, to "subdue my heart to teachableness", not just in the church. And so it should be for all of us. If we are willing to be led by the Word, to be justified by Christ's righteousness, and to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit, really, and not just in rhetoric, then we know that we are being worked on by God, and so have assurance of faith and salvaion.


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## turmeric (Dec 23, 2004)

I have struggled with assurance off and on for a while. So far I think;

That my focus needs to be on Christ - specifically His active & passive righteousness, how this pleased God and reconciled us, etc. not on me and how I'm doing. That way, if I have not yet come to faith I can be contnually confronted by the Gospel, and if I have, my faith will be strengthened.

That marks of conversion are love for God as He reveals Himself to be in Scripture - attraction to His holiness specifically (Edwards), hatred of sin, desire for personal righteousness, faith in Christ's finished work, a growing detachment from assuming that this life is all there is and a consequent change in priorities. I am not above praying to God for these things. I sometimes ask Him to make me a Christian.

Slowly, these qualities seem to be appearing - like nubby little green apples you can't eat yet. Maybe in a few years...


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## JohnV (Dec 23, 2004)

Meg:



> That marks of conversion are love for God as He reveals Himself to be in Scripture - attraction to His holiness specifically (Edwards), hatred of sin, desire for personal righteousness, faith in Christ's finished work, a growing detachment from assuming that this life is all there is and a consequent change in priorities.


I'm glad you added that. Especially in term of "love for God". Well said.


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## blhowes (Dec 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> Of assistance may be the practical syllogism:
> 
> 1. Those who are saved without fail bear the fruit of the gospel in their lives.
> ...


Fred,
Thanks for the cliff notes version. Very good.

Now when another person comes looking for assurance, the syllogism often changes to:

1. Those who are saved without fail bear the fruit of the gospel in their lives.
2. They *do not* see the fruit of the gospel in their life
3. Therefore, _______

Its a little tricky then to know how to fill in the blank. 

After listening to Dr. Dewitt's sermon yesterday, I went back and read the WCF chapter 18. Its neat to read in there the good advice about false assurance and how sin in our lives can affect our assurance, or lack thereof.

[Edited on 12-23-2004 by blhowes]


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## blhowes (Dec 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JohnV_
> This has been a particularly difficult topic for me. With my present church bearing witness that I am not really spiritually with it, to put it publishable terms; and many friends leaving us, with definite grudges in place; it is a very, very important question to ask myself. Its vitally important to me.


I can imagine how difficult and heart wrenching it must be for you to go through this trial. Looking at it purely from as human perspective, any situation that causes us to examine ourselves in this regard is good. The stakes are too high not to be concerned.


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## blhowes (Dec 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> That my focus needs to be on Christ - specifically His active & passive righteousness, how this pleased God and reconciled us, etc. not on me and how I'm doing. That way, if I have not yet come to faith I can be contnually confronted by the Gospel, and if I have, my faith will be strengthened.


Good stuff, Meg. I don't think we can go wrong when the focus is on Christ. This applies for personal assurance as well as encouraging others. Our assurance must rest in Christ.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 23, 2004)

> _Originally posted by JohnV_
> Bob:
> 
> This has been a particularly difficult topic for me. With my present church bearing witness that I am not really spiritually with it, to put it publishable terms; and many friends leaving us, with definite grudges in place; it is a very, very important question to ask myself. Its vitally important to me.
> ...



Praying for you, John! May our gracious Heavenly Father sustain you in his loving care through all your trials.


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## alwaysreforming (Dec 24, 2004)

*Two meager comments:*

1. I think we have to be careful in this saying of Jesus ("Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not....?'", to see it in its proper light. This is just my opinion, but I DON'T think Jesus is using this teaching in the sense of us never being able to tell if we were truly Christians or not. Of course, this is most often the way it is applied, but I wonder if this was Christ's intent. I think it was rather to show that there ARE false converts and there WILL BE false converts. Again, we should not try to make this saying "walk on all fours" and become our theological grid to base our assurance on.

2. I think its important to consider what some of the experiences are of those in the Bible who were justified by Jesus, like Mary the prostitute, or the woman healed of bleeding. These people saw Jesus for who He is: the man with the power, the man with the means to save them. They caught a glimpse of the glory of Christ, and they let no one tell them otherwise. They were desparate; and convinced.

Is this how we are? Do we see the beauty that is Christ's? Do we see Him sinless and perfect? Do we truly believe that in Him God is well pleased?

On account of that, do we find the gospel truths of the Bible marvelous, and truly believe that the promises of Scripture could be for us? Do we really believe that Christ was worthy enough to pay for are debts? And that He lived a perfect life that He gives to us? 

If the answers to these questions are "yes," then I don't think we need to doubt our conversion and struggle with issues of our assurance. If Christ is Majestic in our eyes, and Glorious, couldn't that ONLY be by the power of the Holy Spirit to open our eyes to these truths?

The uncoverted simply do not believe ON HIM. They don't see Him for who He truly is. We do!


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## turmeric (Dec 24, 2004)




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## blhowes (Dec 27, 2004)

> _Originally posted by alwaysreforming_
> 1. I think we have to be careful in this saying of Jesus ("Many will say to me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not....?'", to see it in its proper light. This is just my opinion, but I DON'T think Jesus is using this teaching in the sense of us never being able to tell if we were truly Christians or not. Of course, this is most often the way it is applied, but I wonder if this was Christ's intent. I think it was rather to show that there ARE false converts and there WILL BE false converts. Again, we should not try to make this saying "walk on all fours" and become our theological grid to base our assurance on.


I agree. Like other scriptures, I think its like a double-edged sword. On the one hand, its a warning, the seriousness of which shouldn't be underestimated. On the other hand, its a source of great encouragement when we are assured of our salvation. Its a source of great joy when we realize that Jesus initiated a relationship with us and we rest in the fact that he knows us (as opposed to "I never knew you").

[Edited on 12-27-2004 by blhowes]


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## andreas (Dec 29, 2004)

###I was wondering if anybody had any thoughts about a person's assurance of salvation? How does a person know if they have saving faith, and not the false faith of Matthew 7:21-23? ###



14 "For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?" Romans 7


If you have experience the strugle of Paul,then you must be saved,for there is never any strugle,in the unsaved.
In a true christian the spirit always lusteth against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit. Galatians 5:17

andreas.


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## cupotea (Feb 4, 2005)

>>>If you have experience the strugle of Paul,then you must be saved,for there is never any strugle,in the unsaved.
In a true christian the spirit always lusteth against the flesh and the flesh against the spirit. Galatians 5:17<<<

I agree with what you say here. Assurance is my theological concern-of-the-moment. I was listening to a sermon by Bob Jones, Jr. who noted that a man once asked a pastor, "Will becoming a Presbyterian make me sinless? Answer: No, but it will make you miserable in your sin." 

However, as a Lutheran my "take" on the issue is perhaps different than *some* Reformed. 

Most of the Reformed author's that I've read on this topic tend towards a more subjective answer to the question of assurance. I.e., the struggle against sin, Galatians 5, etc. But if my assurance remains completely subjective I begin to get uncomfortable. We Lutherans are always objectively-oriented, always seeking to something outside of ourselves, outside of our "experience" to provide us with assurance.

Consequently I've developed a fresh appreciation for the Lutheran theology of baptism. Here, in God's promise, is my assurance. Granted, I was not a genuine believer for much of my life. However when I was called by Christ and justified, I began to wonder how I could have assurance of my election. At that time my baptism became very important to me. 

Perhaps my adherence to my baptism is akin to what you state above re our struggle against sin. That is, as long as I'm unconcerned with it (baptism) then I am not saved. However, for the regenerate it (baptism) becomes absolutely critical. 

Above I noted that Lutheran theology may disagree with "some Reformed". I put it this way because of my admittedly-superficial study of Article 28 of the Confession of Faith. Here it appears to me that Refomed theology *may* allow for baptismal regeneration, though not in as absolute a sense as Lutheran.

Anway I thank you for posting your note on assurance. As I said, I agree with you that a struggle against sin is certainly indicative of salvation. It's just that Lutheranism also moves in another, sacramental, direction.

In Christ,
Globachio


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## blhowes (Feb 4, 2005)

Globachio,
I see you've posted a few times to the board without me welcoming you. Welcome!



> Globachio wrote:
> We Lutherans are always objectively-oriented, always seeking to something outside of ourselves, outside of our "experience" to provide us with assurance.



I'm not familiar with Lutheran theology. Why would you always seek something outside of yourselves, baptism for example, rather than also looking at your experience as well? Unless you can assume that everybody, from whatever denomination, is saved if they had been baptized, then you would need to look at other criteria as well.


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## BobVigneault (Feb 4, 2005)

Welcome Pastor Kevin!

I preached at a Lutheran Church two weeks ago and I got to thinking at the time, "We don't see many Lutherans on the board". It's my hope that you've come to stay and I pray you will be challenged and grow as a result of the spirited interaction on the board.


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## Breadloaf (Feb 4, 2005)

*Assured!*



> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> Of assistance may be the practical syllogism:
> 
> 1. Those who are saved without fail bear the fruit of the gospel in their lives.
> ...



Those can be right, Fred. But it can be very difficult to distinguish the true fruit of the Gospel and false, man-made fruit, especially to a non-believer. If you ask a non-Christian if they have lives filled with love and joy, they will inevitabley say yes. The same holds for a non-Christian who thinks that they are a Christian. I found Jonathan Edwards' "The Distinguishing Marks of a Work of the Spirit of God" to be very helpful. Find it online. Edwards is usually quite helpful because his church was filled with unregenerate people, many who thought they were Christians, and many who knew they weren't. Remember that everyone in Northamption was required to attend worship service by law. 

And yet, even the saints despair of themselves. 

"On this day I am seventy years old, a monument of Divine mercy and goodness, though on a review of my life I find much, very much, for which I wought to be humbled in the dust; my direct and positive sins are innumerable, my negligence in the Lord's work has been great, I have not promoted his cause, nor sought his glory and honour as I ought . . ." 
-William Carey

Two thoughts:

1. God saved us into community. Part of community life in the church means that since a saint will often see their sin instead of their fruit (humility,) it is very important to reflect back to others what you see. If you see a brother with real Fruit, and good reason to be assured, tell him! Nobody does this, but it is so critical.

2. 1 Tim 4.8 says, " . . . but godliness is provitable for all things, since it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come."

What is godliness? See 3.16:
He who was revealed in the flesh,
Was vindicated in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Proclaimed among the nations,
Believed on in the world,
Taken up in glory.

Godliness holds the keys to the life to come, but in 3.16 Paul centers "godliness" around Jesus Christ. How do I know I am saved? Because Jesus Christ was revealed, vindicated, seen, proclaimed, believed, and taken up. How do I know I really believe that in my heart? Because Jesus Christ was revealed, vindicated, seen, proclaimed, believed, and taken up. My assurance is wrapped up, ultimately, in what Jesus did, and not at all what I did. My salvation is only as / just as sure as the facts of Jesus incarnation, ministry, crucifixion, resurrection, ascention and continuing Lordship. If He did none of these I am lost, if He did all I am found.

-JK
PCA 
Cambridge MA
"As Luther might say, 'Talk to my lawyer' "
-Richard Lovelace


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## cupotea (Feb 4, 2005)

*Knowing You\'re Saved*

>>>>I'm not familiar with Lutheran theology. Why would you always seek something outside of yourselves, baptism for example, rather than also looking at your experience as well? Unless you can assume that everybody, from whatever denomination, is saved if they had been baptized, then you would need to look at other criteria as well.<<<<

Dear Bob,
Thanks for the welcome. I'm kind of a "closet Puritan", what being a Lutheran pastor and all. Getting ready to read Boston's 
"Human Nature in its 4-fold State."

Because Lutherans view baptism as not only God's command, but also His work, His promise, and His grace, its significance for us is hard to overemphasize. 

Concerning this particular topic, baptism is crucial for us precisly because it's not an experience. I think we would all agree that because of its subjectivity, experience has ebbs and flows. Hence if it forms the ground of my assurance I may be very sure one day, but extremely insecure the next. 

Because we view baptism as God's grace at work, our assurance rests upon His promise and not on what we may feel or experience from day to day, or even moment to moment. So I may be extremely down and depressed; feel as though I'm overwhelmed and an utterly lost sinner. Yet all of what I feel cannot touch what God has promised to me in my baptism.

This is why Luther, when plagued by the devil, would finally yell out, "But I have been baptized!" and receive peace.

However, the question you raise regarding the salvation of those who are baptized is an increasingly difficult one for me. Since I personally hold to the 5 points I struggle with the Lutheran notion that this sacrament is regenerative. Although I've not arrived at any conclusion, I take heart in the 28th Article of the Confession of Faith (Westminster Confession) that baptism is regenerative ... but *when* it is so is up to the Spirit which blows when and where He wills. 

In Christ,
Globachio


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## cupotea (Feb 4, 2005)

>>> ... be for all of us. If we are willing to be led by the Word, to be justified by Christ's righteousness, and to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit, really, and not just in rhetoric, then we know that we are being worked on by God, and so have assurance of faith and salvaion.

I just now read this! Excellent words, John! Thank you<<<

Having just read it myself I'm blown away by it. I too must thank you John. Your words are quite powerful.

In Christ,
Globachio


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## Ben Gliddon (Feb 5, 2005)

A note on this post: I'm not sure about the forum etiquette here, whether or not you all talk about personal problems or not, or if this post is acceptable in this topic, as it has to do with the topic in my life, but does not answer the questions asked by Bob in the first post. I have talked with a few of my church elders and other brothers about his, but some are busy and others don't know what to say. I hope the mods will move the post if they see that it shouldn't be here. Anyway, thanks to everyone, this topic has been somewhat helpful to me. I myself have been caught in a state of having little or no assurance of salvation for quite a long time. I'm prone to wander in and out of confidence in the application of Christ's work of redemption to me, given my melancholy nature, my constant, willful transgressions, the lack of strenth in me, and, ultimately, my great lack of faith. There are so many traps of interpretation and application of God's word that seal me in a labyrinth of confusion, doubt, fear, and despair, successively. I say with JK (Breadloaf) that "as surely as Jesus died for sinners and was raised and is now seated in glory, I have been crucified with him, raised with him, and will be revealed with him in glory when he comes to judge the living and the dead." Then I say, "Even the demons believe, and shudder." Then I look at my own fruit, comparing it to the objective fruit of the Spirit, love, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. I am gifted in some of those, excelling above others I know, but other fruits are alien to me. Love, kindness, gentleness, yes. Self-control? Peace? I cannot find a speck of these in my heart. I am full of chaos, constantly beset by ravaging sin throughout my members. I believe I cannot control myself, therefore I do not seek control. The work of Christ is glorious to me, except now I have convinced myself that my works are insufficient as a measure of my soul, no, they are nonexistent, and thus are the measure of my soul. I know what Ian (Ianterrell) speaks of, a works-righteousness that one can be caught in, and constant depression. I would love to say with Andreas and Paul that there is a war in my members, but it feels more like the last remnant of the home country guarding the gates of the only standing city, watching swarms of enemy soldiers move over the hills on all sides. There is going to be a fight, for sure, but all the soldiers have in their minds the knowledge that they will lose. I see Christ as glorious, sinless, the Shepherd giving rest to those heavy ladened, God as holy, God as just to forgive those bought by Jesus, and just to condemn those who are not and would not be, but the subjective materials of the application of salvation by God's Spirit are greatly stressed in Scripture and greatly stressed in my heart. They are just not present. Jesus is sweet to me, but far off. The second Adam, humbled to flesh and a manger and, finally, a cross, still seems unattentive to hear. Perhaps the Spirit does not speak to me, God is just. I love the things of God in my mind, but my flesh hates them strongly and violently. Sometimes I am Job, cursing the day of my birth, sometimes I am Paul, saying, "to die is gain." I pray only that I would not say the former, and not say the latter wrongly, but to trust Christ wholly and say "To live is Christ." Right now I can only say to God, "by Christ, have mercy on me, a sinner."

Ben

[Edited on 2-6-2005 by Ben Gliddon]


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## turmeric (Feb 5, 2005)

One thing we will never have in this life - perfection! When fruit starts on a tree it's usually unedible for a few years. Even St. Paul said he did not judge his own works, because he couldn't judge them objectively, I'm sure! Think of what Christ did for us until love for Him fills your soul, then you'll know.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Feb 5, 2005)

This, I find, is greatly helpful:

I. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God, and estate of salvation[1] (which hope of theirs shall perish):[2] yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace,[3] and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.[4]

1. Micah 3:11; Deut. 29:19; John 8:41
2. Amos 9:10; Matt. 7:22-23
3. I John 2:3; 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 5:13
4. Rom. 5:2, 5

II. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope;[5] but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,[6] the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,[7] the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God,[8] which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.[9]

5. Heb. 6:11, 19
6. Heb. 6:17-18
7. II Peter 1:4-11; I John 2:3; 3:14; II Cor. 1:12
8. Rom. 8:15-16
9. Eph. 1:13-14; 4:30; II Cor. 1:21-22

III. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it:[10] yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.[11] And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure,[12] that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience, the proper fruits of this assurance;[13] so far is it from inclining men to looseness.[14]

10. I John 5:13
11. I Cor. 2:12; I John 4:13; Heb. 6:11-12; Eph. 3:17-19
12. II Peter 1:10
13. Rom. 5:1-2, 5; 14:17; 15:13; Eph. 1:3-4; Psa. 4:6-7; 119:32
14. I John 1:6-7; 2:1-2; 3:2-3; Rom. 6:1-2; 8:1, 12; Titus 2:11-12, 14; II Cor. 7:1; Psa. 130:4

IV. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin which woundeth the conscience and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God's withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light:[15] yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived;[16] and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair.[17]

15. Psa. 31:22; 51:8, 12, 14; 77:1-10; Eph. 4:30-31; Matt. 26:69-72 and Luke 22:31-44
16. I John 3:9; Luke 22:32; Psa. 51:8, 12; 73:15
17. Micah 7:7-9; Jer. 32:40; Isa. 54:7-14; II Cor. 4:8-10


(The Westminster Confession of Faith, Chapter XVIII:
Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation)


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## Irishcat922 (Feb 5, 2005)

Earlier today I was thinking about Heb. 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him. I think the practical application of this passage at least in my life, when I struggle with fruitlessness, or my own sinfulness, is to walk by faith, and not to draw back. My tendency many times is to want to give up. I think the Christian life at times is like Douting Castle and the Dungeon of Despair in Bunyans Pilgrims Progress, yes we are responsible for the place in which we find ourselves but we have the key to escape the despair, it is the promises of God. When all else fails believe God. When I come to this place in my life, the Lord always, graciously provides peace to my soul.


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