# Advice for dealing with Worship director



## steadfast7 (Jul 25, 2010)

Hi all,

I have a friend who serves as a 'worship pastor' at a contemporary presbyterian church (non PCA, no RPW). Some of the congregants have reported that they perceive showboating and pride in his music leadership and guitar playing. Apparently it has come to the point that many arrive conveniently late to worship so as to avoid the main set of worship songs which he leads.

What would be the best way to approach him about this issue?

thanks


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## ooguyx (Jul 25, 2010)

I agree with Joshua. I think the best option is to tell those complaining to you that they should bring the issue to him directly in compliance with Mat 18.15ff in dealing with this sin (making worship about himself). In my humble opinion anything else turns this situation into gossip. 

Hope all goes well.


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## steadfast7 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks brothers for your sound and wise advice.

I wouldn't say this is an offence that he's committing against church members, but a perception of his mannerisms that seems to distract others; certain mannerisms common among lead vocalists in rock bands, let's say..

If asked about it, I know him enough to know that he would say it's part of the job of making music and communicating to other musicians.

should the members be satisfied with this answer, or should this pastor be aware/confronted on something that might be stumbling his people?

thanks again.


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## ooguyx (Jul 25, 2010)

Nova said:


> If asked about it, I know him enough to know that he would say it's part of the job of making music and communicating to other musicians.



This is why I think that your best option is to encourage the upset member to talk to him about it themselves. This way he can defend himself to them and they can determine if it his response is acceptable. In my humble opinion for you to participate in this by talking him is gossip, unless you facilitate a discussion with both parties present. They should be complaining to him, not you.

As an aside, when I was a pentecostal my AG church had worship pastor who showboated as well (although he played the piano). My buddy and I called it cocktail worship.


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## steadfast7 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks.

Now, the plot thickens somewhat. This is only one of the issues surrounding this young pastor friend of mine. He has some character traits that are clearly observable by all of us, ie. not just a perception of some.

His conversation is often crude, and he immerses himself in movies and media that are not appropriate for pastors, among other things.

Should behaviours as obvious as this be confronted directly? Also, we're not sure that the senior pastor knows of these traits of his, as he often only 'let's loose' when he's with his circle of friends.

As an aside (and maybe this could be a thread on its own), how much media ought a pastor take in before it's considered inappropriate?


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## calgal (Jul 25, 2010)

Are his friends indulging in the same behavior? Is their conversation crude? If so, then would it not be better for his friends to model what they see as appropriate behavior for him?


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## LawrenceU (Jul 25, 2010)

Nova said:


> Thanks.
> 
> Now, the plot thickens somewhat. This is only one of the issues surrounding this young pastor friend of mine. He has some character traits that are clearly observable by all of us, ie. not just a perception of some.
> 
> ...


 
BTW, if it is inappropriate for a pastor it is inappropriate for any Christian.


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## steadfast7 (Jul 25, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> Nova said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks.
> ...


 
True, true, his friends, including myself could do a lot more to model Christlikeness. But the influence often comes down from the clergy, no? I'm wondering whether or not there are certain leadership standards that are to be expected of clergy that maybe the session could suggest. Has anyone heard of such a thing?


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## Jack K (Jul 25, 2010)

You mustn't throw mud at your friend from a distance just because he's in vocational ministry. If you're concerned, you need to be concerned enough to build the kind of relationship with him that allows you to confront each other. Yes, _each other_. The "speck in your own eye" teaching applies here. Search your own heart first. Become a more repentant and humble person. Reach out to him as a brother. Then learn from each other how to become more godly men together, as you challenge each other. This is an important part of how Christians grow in godliness. Having someone point out faults from a distance seldom works.


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## steadfast7 (Jul 25, 2010)

Thanks to all of you for your advice. I'd thank each of your posts using the "thank button", but for some reason it's not showing up on my screen.


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## Berean (Jul 25, 2010)

Nova said:


> Thanks to all of you for your advice. I'd thank each of your posts using the *"thank button*", but for some reason it's not showing up on my screen.



Well, you're too new here having only five posts. You'll need something like 20 for "the button" to appear. Also, it would be a good idea to post in the "Introduce Yourself" section so we can welcome you to the PB and get to know you.


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## EricP (Jul 26, 2010)

It's probably late in this particular thread, but even as a non-electrical instrument musician who has participated musically in many worship services, I have found it very difficult to not to have the "gig" mentality about performing in worship--that's one of the hard things about it for me and for others. It may even be more difficult for the worship-leading band "front man". I think all those who participate in worship (even the oft-hidden church organist) need the prayers of their congregations, to help them to be able to worship rather than perform; to make their noises for God, not for any other "audience"!


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## JBaldwin (Jul 26, 2010)

EricP said:


> It's probably late in this particular thread, but even as a non-electrical instrument musician who has participated musically in many worship services, I have found it very difficult to not to have the "gig" mentality about performing in worship--that's one of the hard things about it for me and for others. It may even be more difficult for the worship-leading band "front man". I think all those who participate in worship (even the oft-hidden church organist) need the prayers of their congregations, to help them to be able to worship rather than perform; to make their noises for God, not for any other "audience"!


 
This is probably off topic, but I agree with you on this one. I'm a church musician, and I do understand the struggle. However, I believe the reason that a lot of musicians fall into performance mentaliy is that they either 1) do not understand worship, or 2) they think leading worship_ is _being the band "front man". Church musicians should consider themselves participants in worship who happen to be worshipping by playing their instruments or keeping everyone together. When that is the prevailing attitude, the musicians don't stick like a sore thumb, even when they are up front.


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## Willem van Oranje (Jul 26, 2010)

My opinion would be that the best thing is to terminate the position, and let the preaching pastor direct the whole worship service, including the singing. I'm not sure why an extra "worship pastor" should be required. Having a musically talented individual from the congregation lead the singing as a cantor, I understand, but a "worship pastor?"


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## JBaldwin (Jul 26, 2010)

Willem van Oranje said:


> My opinion would be that the best thing is to terminate the position, and let the preaching pastor direct the whole worship service, including the singing. I'm not sure why an extra "worship pastor" should be required. Having a musically talented individual from the congregation lead the singing as a cantor, I understand, but a "worship pastor?"


 
In churches where instruments and choirs are allowed, the worship pastor is often someone who has either gone through seminary or is going through seminary seeking ordination and is also musically gifted. Many larger churches hire these men to get experience in the ministry while having someone who is providing pastoral support. I know personally several former worship "pastors" who are now church planters or pastors, and who are mentoring others in the same way. 

In other churches, the worship pastor is ordained and simply serves a dual role. I also know several men who do this.


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## Willem van Oranje (Jul 26, 2010)

JBaldwin said:


> In churches where instruments and choirs are allowed, the worship pastor is often someone who has either gone through seminary or is going through seminary seeking ordination and is also musically gifted. Many larger churches hire these men to get experience in the ministry while having someone who is providing pastoral support. I know personally several former worship "pastors" who are now church planters or pastors, and who are mentoring others in the same way.
> 
> In other churches, the worship pastor is ordained and simply serves a dual role. I also know several men who do this.



I understand the practice. I have in the past been a member of churches which had a "worship pastor." I'm questioning the propriety of it. To have one pastor in charge of the music does not make him the "worship pastor", since the most important part of worship is actually the preaching of the word. I want us to get back to the idea that the whole service is properly worship, not just the music, and especially the sermon. 

I also think that it is a mistake to have one person choose the music and another preach the sermon. I belong to a church which has both a choir and instrumental accompaniment. We do not have a "worship pastor." The pastor who is preaching will choose the psalms and hymns. 

We do have special music at times, and alas, the choir director will normally choose the selections, but I do not see this is proper or ideal. I wish they would take greater care to consult the preacher on their selections. The music ought to be used to prepare for, and repond to, the sermon, and so that's why the preacher should be making the selections.


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## au5t1n (Jul 26, 2010)

This is why I wonder whether having instruments in worship runs against the priesthood of the believer (unless everyone is holding a tambourine), because a portion of the congregation is distinguished as performing a distinct part of worship, rather than the congregational unity of _a capella_ worship, where the whole congregation is the "band." And this is coming from a former church musician. But I'm not sure -- it's just a thought I have had.


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