# Are all CREC churches FV?



## Anglicanorthodoxy (Jul 18, 2017)

I know the CREC is generally linked with he FV, but are all CRÈC churches FV? There's a CREC church in Annapolis ( where I'll be going to college) It's called Christ Reformed Evangelical Church. I contacted their pastor, and asked him where the parish stands on FV. This is what he said

"As for the Federal Vision, our congregation has never identified with the movement, and there are only a handful of folks here that would even know what it is. I'm quite happy with what the Westminster Confession teaches on justification, and that's what is preached and taught here."

What do y'all think?

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## Jake (Jul 18, 2017)

Not all are. I'd suspect that congregation is comfortable being in the CREC because of higher liturgy than most Presbyterians and practicing paedocommunion.


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## Edward (Jul 18, 2017)

Jake said:


> and practicing paedocommunion.



Article I.C. 1&2 of the Constitution on the congregation's website seems to suggest that the congregation doesn't practice Paedeocommunion. Which I found a bit of a surprise. http://www.crecannapolis.com/crec-constitution.pdf

I tend to be wary when dealing with followers of Pope (sorry, "Presiding Minister") Wilson, and would look for another church, but I do want to play fair with this congregation. There are a couple of English speaking PCA churches in the area; I'd look for the best of those.

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## Herald (Jul 18, 2017)

Khater, I am familiar with many of the churches in West Anne Arundel County. There are PCA churches in the area, as well as a Reformed Baptist Church in Gambrills. Message me if you want recommendations.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 18, 2017)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> I know the CREC is generally linked with he FV, but are all CRÈC churches FV? There's a CREC church in Annapolis ( where I'll be going to college) It's called Christ Reformed Evangelical Church. I contacted their pastor, and asked him where the parish stands on FV. This is what he said
> 
> "As for the Federal Vision, our congregation has never identified with the movement, and there are only a handful of folks here that would even know what it is. I'm quite happy with what the Westminster Confession teaches on justification, and that's what is preached and taught here."
> 
> What do y'all think?



Ask him why they are in the CREC rather than a Presbyterian denomination if they are Westminsterian. What exceptions, if any, do they take to the confession?

If they are in the CREC, at the very least they are OK with being yoked together with FV churches.

Reactions: Like 1 | Amen 1


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## Jake (Jul 18, 2017)

Edward said:


> Article I.C. 1&2 of the Constitution on the congregation's website seems to suggest that the congregation doesn't practice Paedeocommunion. Which I found a bit of a surprise. http://www.crecannapolis.com/crec-constitution.pdf
> 
> I tend to be wary when dealing with followers of Pope (sorry, "Presiding Minister") Wilson, and would look for another church, but I do want to play fair with this congregation. There are a couple of English speaking PCA churches in the area; I'd look for the best of those.



I must have spoken too hastily. I was trying to look for information on the pastor and saw the church listed on a site listing churches that practice paedocommunion (with the current pastor's name). But it's possible the list was not reputable or just was out-of-date.

Edit: Actually, the paedocommunion site had the pastor listed on the staff page, not the pastor listed in that PDF.


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## TylerRay (Jul 18, 2017)

Edward said:


> Article I.C. 1&2 of the Constitution on the congregation's website seems to suggest that the congregation doesn't practice Paedeocommunion. Which I found a bit of a surprise. http://www.crecannapolis.com/crec-constitution.pdf


That's weird. Check out section F:


> F. Covenant Communion
> 1. Who may participate?
> The Lord’s Supper is for all the Lord’s people.We practice “covenant communion;” that is, we encourage all
> baptized Christians (not censured under church discipline) to partake of the Lord’s Table and so commune
> ...



I don't understand how this is consistent at all with the communicant/noncommunicant distinction in section C.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## TylerRay (Jul 18, 2017)

Anglicanorthodoxy said:


> As for the Federal Vision, our congregation has never identified with the movement


This is true for many CREC churches. They don't formally endorse the movement--instead, they teach all of its doctrines without ever using any of the buzzwords. Call it a "wolf in sheep's clothing" approach, if you like.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Edward (Jul 18, 2017)

Jake said:


> I must have spoken too hastily. I was trying to look for information on the pastor and saw the church listed on a site listing churches that practice paedocommunion (with the current pastor's name). But it's possible the list was not reputable or just was out-of-date.
> 
> Edit: Actually, the paedocommunion site had the pastor listed on the staff page, not the pastor listed in that PDF.



You could well be correct. I was looking for evidence of Paedocommunion myself when I ran across the constitutional provisions, and as I said, was surprised.

[strike]I can think of no legitimate reason for a non-FV church to be in CREC, but I haven't seen evidence that would support stronger accusations at this point.[/strike]


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## Edward (Jul 18, 2017)

TylerRay said:


> That's weird. Check out section F:



OK, I stopped reading too soon. That was what I expected to see. And in the best FV tradition, things don't always mean what they say.

In recognition of being shown up by TylerRay, I'll doff my arrogance for the rest of the evening.

And everyone should probably bookmark this thread....

Edit to add

Reactions: Funny 5


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## Mr. Bultitude (Jul 19, 2017)

TylerRay said:


> This is true for many CREC churches. They don't formally endorse the movement--instead, they teach all of its doctrines without ever using any of the buzzwords. Call it a "wolf in sheep's clothing" approach, if you like.



And the thing is, from my understanding, that's not just the CREC approach toward FV, it's the FV approach to everything. Churches and individuals from that tradition (and I would unhesitatingly include CREC in the FV "tradition") are notoriously hard to pin down on what they actually believe. I would avoid any and all CREC churches, as their willing association with the FV movement makes their doctrine and doctrinal trajectory suspect.


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## Parakaleo (Jul 19, 2017)

Mr. Bultitude said:


> Churches and individuals from that tradition (and I would unhesitatingly include CREC in the FV "tradition") are notoriously hard to pin down on what they actually believe.



This made me think of a tweet from Peter Leithart from yesterday:

“The more precise you are, in general the more likely you are to be wrong.” -J.L. Austin

What???

Reactions: Like 1 | Wow 1


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## TylerRay (Jul 19, 2017)

Mr. Bultitude said:


> And the thing is, from my understanding, that's not just the CREC approach toward FV, it's the FV approach to everything. Churches and individuals from that tradition (and I would unhesitatingly include CREC in the FV "tradition") are notoriously hard to pin down on what they actually believe. I would avoid any and all CREC churches, as their willing association with the FV movement makes their doctrine and doctrinal trajectory suspect.


As someone who was involved with that movement in my younger (and more ignorant) days, I couldn't agree more.

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