# Is it okay to have illegal coffepots?



## RamistThomist (Sep 6, 2004)

This question may seem rhetorical at first, but hear me out. I love to drink coffee; it allows me to get up in the morning to have bible study. The rules for the dorm are such--coffeepots that have hot plates are outlawed. Their reasoning? It will burn down the dorm. Now, is this fair? If they had outlawed George Forman Grills and Press Irons as well, I would understand. I asked them (the powers that be) why these were allowed and innocent coffepots were forbidden; they have yet to give me an answer. 

Here is my dilemma: I have a coffepot that does have a hotplate but it is one that turns itself off after two hours; therefore negating the possibility of burning the dorm down. Yea, even more so, their rules, as you good gents have no doubt noticed, are hypocritical. THey affirm the right to have irons that have historically caused numerous fires but deny the right to have hotplates which have caused significantly fewer (if any). Would it be a sin to defy them on this one? Conversely, would it be sinful to obey this hypocritical law? If I broke this rule would I be a patriot (one wo defies unjust laws) or a usurper? 

I shall make my decision on the consensus reply of the board.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Sep 6, 2004)

Jacob, whether rules sound stupid or not (as this one does) we as Christians are called to respect our authorities. If you have a problem with this rule take it to the people in charge but otherwise I do not see breaking rules that do not blatantly contradict the bible as a Christian thing to do.

There are Christians ways and means to bring about change and defieing (how ever that is spelt) rules and laws are not one of them.


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## Craig (Sep 6, 2004)

One thing to keep in mind...that dorm room is not yours...it is the school's.

Another thing, if you sign up for Gevalia coffee...which is my favorite kind of coffee...you can get a free coffee maker with no hotplate. Instead, the coffee drips into a decent caraffe (sp?)...it's working out really well for me and my wife. You can discontinue the coffee at any time. It may cost you $20 to get started...that gets you a good bit of coffee and gets you the coffee maker. Just an idea! 

Also, if others are groaning over the fact hotplates are contraband...you can charge em 50 cents a cup. Hey, get good coffee, a decent coffee maker, comply with the school, and have others cover the initial cost.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 6, 2004)

Unless thirty or so people on this board rise up and denounce this rule as a violation of the laws of common sense, I regret to say that I shall acquiese to your advice.  

As it is, I do have a coffeepot that does not have a hot plate, but the coffee it produces tastes awful :thumbdown:


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## Craig (Sep 6, 2004)

Nevermind...they're giving away an AWESOME coffee maker now, but it's different than the one we got...this one does have a hot plate but it's programmable and stainless steel...too cool!

They're selling the one without a hotplate for $50.00 I guess you'll have to sell each cup for about a $1.50.

try out the site, though: www.gevalia.com


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## RamistThomist (Sep 6, 2004)

[quote:fcbf499eed="Abd_Yesua_alMasih"]
There are Christians ways and means to bring about change and defieing (how ever that is spelt) rules and laws are not one of them.[/quote:fcbf499eed]

That sentence is going to bother me for the rest of the week  How shall we bring down the tyrants, I mean, work within the system to end student oppression?


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Sep 6, 2004)

But there is something unChristian about breaking laws just because they do not make sense to you (or even us)... The owners or leaders of the dorm at the ones that have a biblical right to put in place rules and so as a follower of Christ I believe we should follow them (yes even when they do sound silly)

I live in a dorm as well and even when things dont make sense they should be followed.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 6, 2004)

I don't know if I made this point clear or not--George Forman Grills and Irons are allowed.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 6, 2004)

[quote:8f0f049115="Abd_Yesua_alMasih"]But there is something unChristian about breaking laws just because they do not make sense to you (or even us)... The owners or leaders of the dorm at the ones that have a biblical right to put in place rules and so as a follower of Christ I believe we should follow them (yes even when they do sound silly)
.[/quote:8f0f049115]

It is not that I do not like the rule that I think it should be disobeyed; rather, it is because it is hypocritical and therefore, sinful. Giving my sanction to hypocrisy is to passively approve sin.

I know that sounded extreme just then; it might be. But I am really thinking on this one.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Sep 6, 2004)

[quote:cec096f04a="Finn McCool"]I don't know if I made this point clear or not--George Forman Grills and Irons are allowed.[/quote:cec096f04a]Lets put it this way... with a more extreme example. In some place your might get the death penalty for murder but not for abortion. Without getting into a debate about this - lets us say this is silly as both actually are murder - Most of us would agree we as Christians should not go out and execute the doctors that do it. It is up to the authorities. They make the laws and scripture says we should respect them.


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## alwaysreforming (Sep 6, 2004)

Finn:
Ideally, I would try to find a coffeemaker that didn't have the associated hot plate.
That not being feasible, then I'd be very careful breaking the rule, because IF the whole place did happen to burn down, and IF your coffeemaker was the root, then things aren't going to go too well for you or your Christian witness.

But, if I was absolutely sure that my coffeepot wasn't a danger, I'd probably look at it as: "I understand the principle of this law, its to protect others from hazards. However, since I have no hazard I am not violating the law." 
Is this philosophy perfect? No. But in the real world trying to obey EVERY law by EVERY authority (no matter how minor) can cause one to become too self-righteous or create too large a burden (like EVERY single rule/policy that might be in an "Employee Handbook").
Let me give you another example of the principle vs. the law. In Italy, you are supposed to stop at red lights. However, if there are no cars present, or if you present no danger, you are expected to go through the red. By not going, you force other cars around you and greatly increase the odds of an accident. You are not expected, even oftentimes by law enforcement, to always obey the red light rule. So, how do you as a Christian function in such an environment? You "love your neighbor" by doing whatever is in the others' best interest. Its best for you to go, and not hold up traffic.

All that to say, you don't always have to look at just the letter of the law, if you really feel that you're in keeping with the spirit of the law, and are not pricked in the conscience about it before God, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.

But, in the end, you have to be totally sure that in fact, you really are posing no hazard. If you are, then YES, you're sinning, no doubt about it. ...And you shouldn't do it.

Just my two cents....


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## crhoades (Sep 6, 2004)

[quote:b28791d461="Finn McCool"]I don't know if I made this point clear or not--George Forman Grills and Irons are allowed.[/quote:b28791d461]

How about using the George Foreman as the hot plate? Or will that then constitute it as a hot plate and get it banned too?


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Sep 6, 2004)

[quote:37ebd2de49="crhoades"][quote:37ebd2de49="Finn McCool"]I don't know if I made this point clear or not--George Forman Grills and Irons are allowed.[/quote:37ebd2de49]

How about using the George Foreman as the hot plate? Or will that then constitute it as a hot plate and get it banned too? [/quote:37ebd2de49]    

I believe there is a little difference between following every little rule there might be down to a T and breaking a rule you are not ignorant of, you know is wrong, and the person making the rule has clear about it.


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## JohnV (Sep 6, 2004)

But if I were running the school I would ban drip coffee altogether: that's not coffee. 

All right, all right, I was just kidding!

I know that percolators are even more of a problem. Besides, the best coffee is perked over an open fire, and I know they don't usually allow that in the dorms.

I've got an idea. Why not go to college here in Canada. We've got a Tim's on almost every campus. And they have hotplates. It's not cheap, though: $1.20 per medium cup. But you can put as much sugar and cream in as you like for that price.

Jacob, don't break the rules. Don't use an inverted iron.


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## crhoades (Sep 6, 2004)

There's always Sanka and a microwaved cup of water...

[note to moderator: Please do not ban me for this heretical remark. I was only kidding.]


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Sep 7, 2004)

I would question whether this is hypocracy or if it is just being illogical...


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## luvroftheWord (Sep 7, 2004)

Does it not give anybody pause that when Paul told us to honor our authorities that he himself in that instance was not honoring his authority?


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## govols (Sep 7, 2004)

You can always rig your iron to be upside down and put your coffee cup on the iron to keep it warm.


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## Authorised (Sep 7, 2004)

Reminds me of those idiotic rules they have about not allowing microwaves. Seriously, is this the type of stuff they really need to be enforcing?

Speaking of hypocrisy...

I also really depise cops who break the traffic rules simply because they can, then turn around and give me a ticket for going 30 in a 20. 

If you're a cop and you speed because you can, I'd like to invite you to drive off a bridge. 


Ted Kennedy needs the practice.


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## crhoades (Sep 7, 2004)

In all seriousness...

In the case of the civil magistrate, we may petition them to reform unjust laws into just ones. We should not revolt ie. make coffee unlawfully. 

With that being said, address the grievance to the R.A. for an overruling. If that fails I would go with a written, reasoned case to the director of student life/housing. (Some dorms have kitchen areas that might allow for a coffee maker in them.)

If all of that doesn't work then look to moving off campus where you will be able to set the rules.

In the meantime, view coffee as a treat rather than a necessity.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 7, 2004)

[quote:f6926dc169="crhoades"]In all seriousness...

With that being said, address the grievance to the R.A. for an overruling. If that fails I would go with a written, reasoned case to the director of student life/housing. (Some dorms have kitchen areas that might allow for a coffee maker in them.)[/quote:f6926dc169]

...I am the RA and have petitioned the powers that be in a redress of grievances. To quote Patrick Henry, 

[i:f6926dc169]Shall we try argument? Sir, we have been trying that for the last [indefinite period of time]. Have we anything new to offer upon the subject? Nothing. We have held the subject up in every light of which it is capable; but it has been all in vain. Shall we resort to entreaty and humble supplication? What terms shall we find which have not been already exhausted? Let us not, I beseech you, sir, deceive ourselves...We have petitioned; we have remonstrated; we have supplicated; we have prostrated ourselves before the throne, and have implored its interposition to arrest the tyrannical hands of the ministry and School.[/i:f6926dc169]



[quote:f6926dc169]In the meantime, view coffee as a treat rather than a necessity.[/quote:f6926dc169]

To paraphrase John Knox, "Give me coffee else I perish!"

In all seriousness, I am a school official and have dwelt under stupid rules for three years. I have continually petitioned the powers that be, but to no avail. When I thrust my arguments upon them I am met with silence. I can only interpret that silence as, "Yes, our rules are illogical and to be honest with you, Jacob, if it were left to obvious measures, your people would definitely hold the high ground."

What can good, God-fearing citizens do when the authorities fail to reason with them? William Jennings Bryan gives rousing advice,
"[i:f6926dc169]. We have petitioned, and our petitions have been disregarded; we have begged, and they have mocked when our calamity came. We beg no longer; we petition no more. We defy them." [/i:f6926dc169]

To arms, brethren; to arms!


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## crhoades (Sep 7, 2004)

[quote:5cb7956d88]He has sounded forth the trumpet that shall never call retreat;
He is sifting out the hearts of men before His judgment seat;
Oh, be swift, my soul, to answer Him! be jubilant, my feet;
Our God is marching on.
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah! Our God is marching on.[/quote:5cb7956d88]

Great Post...haven't felt that patriotic in a while. If only our leaders in government could rouse us so! Talking about robbing people of liberties and freedom. I wonder if other countries allow their students to have coffeemakers?

I can see you now...Marching with 1000's of other coffee lovers around campus in protest. Let's put it out to the group what the slogans should be.

Here's a harsh one for starters...
Women can murder their unborn children...
Homosexuals can be lawfully wed...
And I can't have a freaggin' hot cup of coffee in the morning!


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## RamistThomist (Sep 7, 2004)

My creativity may have got the best of me. Ok, my issue does pale in comparison to other evils in the world and at the moment I can not fight every battlle, but I am going to raise my voice against inanity!

However, I must at all costs avoid living out the American Churchiantiy motto, "Live Free or Whine!" Rather, I will try to go with the old New Hampshire motto, "Live Free or Die!"

Don't worry, I won't make this a life or death struggle. By the way, this is my 200th post


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## Authorised (Sep 7, 2004)

Mine too.


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