# Pre-Reformation 'Worship Services'



## blhowes (Nov 29, 2005)

I'm listening to a sermon that Pastor Way preached called "The Protestant Reformation: Where is it today?". He mentioned briefly Wycliff and Huss and their belief that believers should be able to read/hear the scriptures in their native tongue. It got me thinking of the time when the catholic masses were done in Latin, a language most who heard didn't understand. 

1. Why did they do their services in Latin, even though they knew that most who heard wouldn't understand what was said? Why Latin instead of Greek?

2. How did the priests who gave the Latin sermons think they were edifying those in the congregation?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 29, 2005)

Latin became the language of the Roman Catholic Church primarily because of its use by Jerome in the Vulgate, the standard Roman version of the Bible used for over a millennia. 

This article on Ecclesiastical Latin has links to sources that advocate the use of Latin in the mass today and conservative Catholics (like Mel Gibson) contend to this day that Latin is the only proper language for the mass. 

See LatinMass.org and the Latin Mass Society. 

The Latin Mass Society's rationale for the mass in Latin is articulated here. Basically, they argue that Latin is the "eternal" language. Many Popes and even the infamous Cardinal Cajetan (seen in the movie _Luther_) have made pronouncements that Latin is essential to the mass. Vatican II changed that, but the attachment to things which seem characterize the Roman Church as ancient or eternal is still very strong. 

I would argue that keeping the mass and the Bible in Latin was a strategy of the church to keep the people in spiritual darkness and at arms length from the hierarchy. 

That's why the Reformation stressed that worship services and Bibles should be done in the vernacular. To bring spiritual light to a people that had lived in darkness (see WCF 1.8).


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> I would argue that keeping the mass and the Bible in Latin was a strategy of the church to keep the people in spiritual darkness and at arms length from the hierarchy.





I truly believe that this is the case.
Likewise, I am convinced that the arguments to the effect that having the Bible in the language of the people would result in heretical private interpretations was nothing but pious and pastoral sounding subterfuge to hide the fact that they just didn't want to lose their grip on the people.


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## blhowes (Nov 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> See LatinMass.org and the Latin Mass Society.


Thanks for your response. 


> *Quote from Latin Mass Society:*
> I should like to put to those who are fostering this development several questions: Does the new mass, more than the old, bestir the human spirit -- does it evoke a sense of eternity? Does it help raise our hearts from the concerns of everyday life -- from the purely natural aspects of the world- to Christ? Does it increase reverence, an appreciation of the sacred?


Interesting article. Reverence for God is certainly important, and often lacking in our worship. So, in his view, listening to a message in Latin, in a language that most hearers don't understand, bestirs the human spirit, evokes a sense of eternity, raises the hearts from the concerns of everyday life, increases reverence and an appreciation of the sacred...more than if they actually heard and understood the words of scripture. It makes me ponder the difference between the FEELING of awe and reverence with true awe and reverence for God.


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## yeutter (Nov 29, 2005)

The most common variation of the Mass said in England and Germany prior to the Reformation was the Sarum. 

A faithful english translation of the Sarum can be found at:

http://www.odox.net/Liturgy1-Sarum.htm

The Latin Mass we are most familiar with is the Tridentine. It reflects liturgical reforms made at Trent. See a papist discussion of this at:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13479a.htm


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## blhowes (Nov 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> I praise the ALMIGHTY that in His Gracious Providence saw fit to bring His Gospel to me in my own language by the likes of Wycliffe, etc. Blessed be His Name!


, Josh, and


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