# Taxes



## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 8, 2005)

I got my federal income tax return completed today. My only incentive is the fact that I anticipate a refund. That's the good news. 

When I think about how much we give to Uncle Sam, though, it makes me to want to throw some tea in Boston Harbor!


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## ReformedWretch (Feb 8, 2005)

I know how you feel! I have had to pay for the past 11 years and am sick of it. 30% goes to the Government and they say I still owe them.


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## kceaster (Feb 8, 2005)

Speaking of the tea party, I find it interesting that they got so mad over a 2 or 3% tax. But, I guess if you'd never paid anything...

I just got a retention bonus in January that was charged 36.5%

Granted I get some of that back, but it will still be around 20%

Do we have an emoticon of the opposite of the dancing banana? That would be my emotion.

KC


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## ReformedWretch (Feb 8, 2005)

= opposite of  ?


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## future expatriate (Feb 8, 2005)

I get most, if not all, of my taxes back this year. I'm chronically unemployed, so I don't think that I made enough money to move out of the lowest tax bracket.


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## lwadkins (Feb 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> oh yeah... most economists agree the employer's contribution to social security is passed onto the employee in reduced wages... tack on another 7%.



You can add more to your tax bill as corporate taxes are payed by those who buy the product. That is a tax very cleverly hidden!


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## LadyFlynt (Feb 16, 2005)

I go to do ours at noon today. Large family, small income, no property...we always get back...it'll cover the car payment for the next year and buy curriculum for next year.


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## TimV (Feb 16, 2005)

Here in California socialist programs like Workman's comp make it very difficult for small businessmen like me to prosper, although with 7 kids and being able to write off pretty much everything I really don't have to pay much either.

3 of my boys work for me, and you can pay each kid of your own almost 5 grand without paying any taxes on it, so that helps too.


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## lwadkins (Feb 16, 2005)

I'll be gathering up the tax documents today. We are expecting a refund.

Wish the goverment would allow us to take our share of the educational taxes and apply it to our Christian school tuition!


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## tdowns (Feb 16, 2005)

*I hear that.*

Brutal to pay the taxes, and then pay big bucks to the Christian School.

TD


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## TimV (Feb 16, 2005)

That is just rubbing salt into wounds. I can't deduct my homeschool costs, but my property taxes pay for the local school, a large number of students not even being here legally.


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## LadyFlynt (Feb 16, 2005)

Actually you CAN deduct Homeschool expenses as Educational Expense. You enter it in like any school...Just give your homeschool a name and enter the city you live in. I didn't spend enough this year on education to get back on it or pay for deducting it.


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## LadyFlynt (Feb 16, 2005)

And you can claim Educational Expense on private schools as well. You only get a portion back (let's see, in IL, out of $150 spent you get $12 back...go figure it).


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Feb 16, 2005)

There is a bill pending in the Virginia state legislature that would grant an automatic $250 deduction for homeschooling households. I hope it passes!


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## cupotea (Feb 16, 2005)

Oh boohoo to you, Americans! 

You think you've got it bad? My dad is by no means a rich man; he's a high school teacher. And he pays *45%* taxes. 

You might counter that our government is socialist, etc etc, but no matter what name you give it, we don't get any more benefits than you guys do. Our "free" health care system is horrible. We still need insurance. We still have to pay a lot for health care. What do our taxes go to? Legalizing and cherishing gay marriage, apparently!

This reminds me of one of my favourite stories from the museum I worked in in Salem (MA, USA). A woman was buying something from our gift shop, and asked how much our state's tax was, and we answered, 5%. The woman responded, "Where I'm from, New York [I think], it's 7.5%. It's _insane_." She even shook her head as she said it. I replied that in Ontario, sales tax is 15%. That made her quiet!

[Edited on 2-16-2005 by Cottonball]


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## lwadkins (Feb 16, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Cottonball_
> Oh boohoo to you, Americans!
> 
> 
> > Yep, we have just had it too good for too long, forgotten what it's like to really have it tough.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 5, 2005)

Today is the anniversary of the first US income tax imposed by the administration of Abraham Lincoln on August 5, 1861.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 5, 2005)

Lincoln stinks! 

Deo Vindice!

God has a southern accent!
:bigsmile::bigsmile:


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## RamistThomist (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Today is the anniversary of the first US income tax imposed by the administration of Abraham Lincoln on August 5, 1861.



Imposed? C'mon Andrew, you are making it sound bad. Mercifully granted is the better term!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



The only time I am thankful for Lincoln is when I find a penny on the sidewalk (or a five-dollar bill)!


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## Bladestunner316 (Aug 5, 2005)

:bigsmile:


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## Puritanhead (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> The only time I am thankful for Lincoln is when I find a penny on the sidewalk (or a five-dollar bill)!



I'm not even thankful than -- I'm a crank... I wish the money was backed by gold or silver!


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Aug 5, 2005)

Poor Americans! Our taxes seem no higher than yours but we get O so much free! Where does all this money go? 30% is very high for us but we still get mostly free health care, cheap university etc... all the advantages of a semi-socialist state with the same tax rate.


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## cupotea (Aug 5, 2005)

Gee, if you guys feel so strongly about Lincoln, what do you think about Alexander Hamilton?


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## Puritanhead (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Abd_Yesua_alMasih_
> Poor Americans! Our taxes seem no higher than yours but we get O so much free! Where does all this money go? 30% is very high for us but we still get mostly free health care, cheap university etc... all the advantages of a semi-socialist state with the same tax rate.





> "The State is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else." --Frederic Bastiat



There are no free lunches my New Zealand friend... you pay for it, in the form of reduced economic opportunity because of higher taxation. There is a law of diminishing returns with heavy taxation and it is a detrimental to capital formation and to high per capita income.

There is a reason the United States despite all of its onerous taxation and regulation has one of the highest per capita incomes.... One-third higher than most Western European countries. We enjoy much more market liberalization, a freer labor market, and lower taxation, at least in contrast to the industrialized nations. Though our public sector does eat up one-third of our economy. Better than 42% like New Zealand, 45% like France or one-half like Sweden! Even in the midst of my unemployment, I still favor laissez-faire, free enterprise, and a night-watchmen state.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 5, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Cottonball_
> Gee, if you guys feel so strongly about Lincoln, what do you think about Alexander Hamilton?



John Adams said it better than I... Hamilton is "The b****** brat of a Scottish peddlar."


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## cupotea (Aug 5, 2005)

Haha, that reminds me of something a guy in college said. I don't remember how it came up, but we may have been talking about Aaron Burr. Anyway, I said, "Ooh, I know Hamilton didn't like him." To which the guy answered, "Yeah, but Hamilton was a d--k. He hated everybody." That he did. Well, except his neighbour's wife...


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## Puritanhead (Aug 5, 2005)

Cottonball,

I thought Hamilton was a real snake in the grass and as disingenious in public life as he was in private life. He called the people "a great beast" who "seldom judge right," and he called the Constitution a "frail and worthless fabric" and labored for its overthrow by reinterpretation or broad construction. His private mutterings against the Constitution in cabinet meetings after hours disturbed Madison, and he joined up with Jefferson and Randolph in opposing his policies.

He made revelation of his affair in a letter to his contemporaries read, which was preemptively written to save face, because the man's wife was demanding hefty bribes for secrecy and ready to go public. He got mad at James Monroe and almost got into a duel with him over his adulterous affair with Maria Reynolds... As soon, as some newspaper published news of Hamilton's affair, Hamilton came and hurled insults at James Monroe and blamed him. They would have dueled, but their colleagues moved to calm and settle the situation. Hamilton was hot-headed and hated everyone, and was hated by as many. His own Federalist Party imploded as the result of his policies, taxation, scheming and machinations leading to a horrible turnout in the 1800 election. I've read more biographies of him than any founding father, and while I used to find him more amiable now I do not. He lived by the sword and died by it. Aaron Burr was a good shot.

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by Puritanhead]


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## cupotea (Aug 5, 2005)

Everything you said there is true, but he did do a good job as Treasurer...

Oh no, I see a comparison coming on!


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## cupotea (Aug 6, 2005)

Just like Paul Martin... [I don't know which one I'm deprecating with this comparison!]

When I left Canada, the country was in a sort of uproar over the Gomery inquiry. Basically it seemed that the Liberal Party had been giving thousands of dollars in "donations" to some company. So Canadians were pretty darn mad when this came to light, and were hoping Martin would call an election so they could vote against his party. A lot of people blamed Martin for all this trouble; he said he was totally ignorant of these donations. Nobody really believed him, though, since he was *finance minister* when it was supposed to have happened!

Nevertheless, when he was finance minister, he did an awesome job. He saved Canada's butt in a way you guys can appreciate. We had a massive debt thanks to Trudeau in the 70s (it hopped from, if I recall correctly, 2 bil to 200 bil in the decade or so that he was prime minister). PMs had tried to lower it through various means but hadn't been able to. But then Martin came along and, without raising taxes, he wiped it right out, so that suddenly we didn't even have an annual deficit anymore, but actually had extra leftover to go towards paying off the debt. So the debt is actually *shrinking*, finally.

My point is, people may rail against him for the Gomery business, but I'm still glad he was finance minister, because without him Canada would be doomed! (Which isn't to say that he's a good _prime_ minister; I'm just looking at the finance part).


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## cupotea (Aug 6, 2005)

Same with Hamilton. He was a d--k, as old Mark would say, but he was a good Secretary of the Treasury (wasn't he?!). He created the Federal Bank in order to lower America's debt from the war.. This brings me back to American history in highschool, so I don't remember it too well; but that was what our teacher emphasized.


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## Puritanhead (Aug 6, 2005)

That's another reason I don't like him... The Bank of the United States, the central bank on the model of the Bank of England was an onerous institution that corrupted the body politic and paved the way for the Depression of 1819, particularly under Nicohlas Biddle. The "paper aristocracy" of stock-jobbers, speculators, politically-connected manufacturers, and fidiciary elites sought enrichment by spoilation of the taxpayers whether by high debt or seeking bounties. I favor the independent Treasury system that Martin Van Buren instituted, where federal revenues are deposited in Treasury and not private or a central banks. I am Jeffersonian in my views on banking and currency, and favor precious metals over paper. Central banks are conducive to aggrandizement of high debt and taxes... Look what happened since the passage of the Federal Reserve Act... We get an income tax three years later, and now we have a $7 trillion dollar national debt in the U.S. and the over-inflated fiat currency is 2% of its par value at the impetus of the Federal Reserve.


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## cupotea (Aug 6, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> ...favor precious metals over paper..



I understand that precious metals last longer, but this is one case where you need to live in Canada for a few months to recognize that they're only useful on paper, pardon the pun. I can't tell you how much I hate Canada's currency; everything under $5 is a coin! Which means that if you break a five to buy a chocolate bar, you only get change back, so your wallet is bloody bursting at the seams and weighs five thousand pounds.

Mind you, I know what you're saying. Of course, it _is_ better to actually have the amount of money of currency that is issued, than to issue currency based on a tentetive (spelling?) worth. That's entering dangerous territory! My rant is directed at the currency itself.

[Edited on 8-6-2005 by Cottonball]


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