# The Flaw of the Premillennial view of the binding of Satan



## Resting on God (Apr 23, 2013)

In searching for the truth concerning eschatology and the millennium I have become a pretty convinced Amillennialist. The biggest hurtle in the Amillennial interpretation seems to me to be that of the binding of Satan. Now most Premillennialists would agree with me at this point. HOWEVER, I did some further research and investigation of the text of Rev. 20, specifically vs. 7-9. 

And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. 9 And they marched up over the broad plain of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city, but fire came down from heaven[a] and consumed them,

Every Premillennialist you will ever meet will tell you that Satan's binding must be future due to too much evil in our present world. The premise: There's too much evil in the world for today to be the Millennium. That is based on an inherently falty presupposion that the Millennium is a time of total peace on earth, as if it's a paradisiacal utopia. There's nothing in the text of Revelation 20 that says anything about Paraside.

So what about the Scripture above? Is there no evil in the Millennium as the Premils suggest? Let's take a closer look at Gog and Magog. I think we can all agree that those are representing all the evil nations of the world. Very carefully look at verse 8. Many times, in doing exegesis of a Scripture text, it's as important to see what is NOT written as it is to see what IS written. To the verse: Satan is released to deceive who? The nations that are at the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. Where are they again? The four corners. That is a Hebrew expression for EVERYWHERE!! Where are these Gog and Magog unbelieving nations DURING the Millennium? EVERYWHERE!! It doesn't say they will EXIST at the end, but rather they are GATHERED at the end of the Millennium, make sense? Look at the number of the unbelievers--"like the sand of the sea," and look more carefully at v.9. They SURROUND the saints. This means they OUTNUMBER the saints. When do they SURROUND the saints? At the END of the Millennium. When do they OUTNUMBER the saints? DURING and at the END of the Millennium. Do you see what you've just read. Millennial earth is more full of sinners than saints....hmm, sounds like...NOW! Forgive my enthusiasm; eschatology is one of my favorite systematic theologies. There are like 15-20 other things besides this that convince me that we are living in the millennial age, between the two comings of Christ. 

I find it very interesting that I have never met a Premillennialist that believes everyone is saved in the Millennium...why not? Isn't that what they believe the binding of Satan is suppose to accomplish...at least according to the Premil theory? So how many get saved during the "future" millennium? 85%, 90%. So I guess that means Satan is 85-90% bound? lol Just for the record, I don't consider Premillennialism a heresy or divide fellowship over the issue. My somewhat sarcistic way of writing is just my bluntness, please forgive me if it's offensive. 

Satan's binding in Revelation is SYMBOLIC of his not just being under God's sovereignty(for he always has been), but of his being under God's GOSPEL/MESSIANIC sovereignty. He cannot thwart the kingdom of Christ/the gospel from being published to all the nations as he did before the first coming of Christ. No matter what your Millennial view is, you absolutely must agree with that point. It's historically proven that Christianity is global now compared to the thousands of years leading up to Christ. So is there anything in the book of Revelation about that expansion of Christianity?...Revelation 20!

Brian Smither
Member, Trinity Presbyterian Church
Lakeland, FL


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## KMK (Apr 23, 2013)

Welcome to PB, Brian. You need to fix your signature according to board rules. To find out how, click on 'Signature Requirements' under my own signature.


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## Resting on God (Apr 23, 2013)

Thanks KMK!


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## Peairtach (Apr 23, 2013)

*Brian*


> It's historically proven that Christianity is global now compared to the thousands of years leading up to Christ.



God's Church (His Israel) is now widely diffused throughout the Earth but she has not penetrated and percolated this world to the extent that we read about in the Parable of the Leaven.


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## MW (Apr 23, 2013)

Resting on God said:


> So is there anything in the book of Revelation about that expansion of Christianity?...Revelation 20!



I think it is safer to take earlier chapters in the book as "implying" the expansion of Christianity since the judgements include the nations. The binding of Satan in Rev. 20 is best understood as referring to the intermediate state, i.e., the souls of believers reigning with Christ. It covers the whole of the interadventual period. The loosing of Satan is an accompanying vision intended to show the activity of Satan in the midst of the unbelieving world during the same interadventual period. Such an interpretation enables the reader to see that both the binding and loosing of Satan are absolute in their own visionary spheres.


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## KMK (Apr 24, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> *Brian*
> 
> 
> > It's historically proven that Christianity is global now compared to the thousands of years leading up to Christ.
> ...



What would the world have to look like in order for you to see fulfillment in the Parable of the Leaven?


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## Peairtach (Apr 24, 2013)

> He put another parable before them, saying, “The kingdom of heaven is like a grain of mustard seed that a man took and sowed in his field. 32 It is the smallest of all seeds, but when it has grown it is larger than all the garden plants and becomes a tree, so that the birds of the air come and make nests in its branches.”
> 
> He told them another parable. “The kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman took and hid in three measures of flour, _till it was all leavened._” (Matthew 13:31-33, ESV)



The influence of the Gospel in converting, acting as salt and light, and restraining sin would have to be extremely pervasive, at least as pervasive as godlessness in the forms of atheism and secular humanism is today.


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## KMK (Apr 24, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> The influence of the Gospel in converting, acting as salt and light, and restraining sin would have to be extremely pervasive, at least as pervasive as godlessness in the forms of atheism and secular humanism is today.



I am assuming that you do not think the present world is so. I was just curious if you could explain what kinds of things we should see when these parables are fulfilled. Or do you believe that they will only be fulfilled at the moment Christ returns?


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## Peairtach (Apr 24, 2013)

> I am assuming that you do not think the present world is so. I was just curious if you could explain what kinds of things we should see when these parables are fulfilled. Or do you believe that they will only be fulfilled at the moment Christ returns?



They will be fulfilled long before the end of the world. Christ's return is not His victory through the Gospel in history, but the final vindication of His Truth, and the judgment Day.

There is no indication in these Parables of a gap or break in the process of the growth of the mustard seed into a tree, or of the leavening of the dough, so they are focussed on the Kingdom of God in history from the first century onwards.


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## KMK (Apr 24, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> > I am assuming that you do not think the present world is so. I was just curious if you could explain what kinds of things we should see when these parables are fulfilled. Or do you believe that they will only be fulfilled at the moment Christ returns?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Right. And you are sure that they have not been fulfilled yet. (And I am not arguing) My question is, what does extremely pervasive conversion look like? How many conversions per day would have to occur for you to say that it has been fulfilled? How will we know when it has been fulfilled?


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## A5pointer (Apr 25, 2013)

Where am I to think Satan is today? Based on what I hear from so many Christians he has to be omnipresent or runs as fast as Elijah.


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## Gforce9 (Apr 25, 2013)

A5pointer said:


> Where am I to think Satan is today? Based on what I hear from so many Christians he has to be omnipresent or runs as fast as Elijah.



Georgia......just ask Charlie Daniels........


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## Resting on God (Apr 28, 2013)

About the leaven parable, I think Jesus puts His leaven in the slow cooker instead of the microwave. The growth of the kingdom is a slow process...from our perspective. However when you read 2 Peter 3:8 you learn that a thousand years(not referring to St. John's Millennium) is AS one day to the Lord. I am hoping for a massive revival across the world. I see China as the next big "Christian nation" as it were. There is apostasy everywhere and always in the midst of and in spite of growing Christianity. This I believe, according to 2 Thessalonians, is to keep us abreast to the fact that Christ is returning soon and to be ready. I don't see the majority(more than 50%) coming to Christ in the future. I could be wrong but how else do you explain Gog and Magog(unbelievers) outnumbering believers during and especially after the Millennium which we are now in? I love passages such as Isaiah 2 and Psalm 72 and the parables of the Kingdom's expansion. However, personally, I can't totally embrace postmillennialism, but I would consider myself an optimistic amillennialist 

Brian Smither,
Member, Trinity Presbyterian Church
Lakeland, FL


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## Cymro (Apr 28, 2013)

It is through the death and resurrection of our Saviour that Satan is bound. And is related to 
Math12:28-29, "how can one enter into a strong man's house and spoil his goods Except He
FIRST BIND THE STRONG MAN? and THEN He will spoil his house," The whole world lay in darkness
and in the shadow of death. So Acts 14:16, "In times past God suffered ALL nations to walk in their
own ways."
Since the victory of Calvary Satan has been bound and cast out. The Gospel has gone out into all the 
world and the elect in all nations have heard the joyful sound ( generally speaking). Satan's house has been spoiled!
Satan is bound and powerless to prevent the spread of the Gospel and the rescue of the perishing, Christ 's kingdom
rules because He is still at work casting out Satan. "If I with the finger of God cast out devils, NO DOUBT the kingdom
of God is come upon you."
The 4 corners of the earth speaks of the universality of the powers of this world in its detestation and opposition to the
Gospel. The loosing of Satan by God's hand is His judgment on this world in spurning and rejecting 2000 yrs of Gospel
privileges and light. Christ when" lifted up will draw all men unto Him", and the gathering of the Church is the precursor
of the loosing. And who cannot fail to see in the present atheistic secularism that is abounding; the militant antagonism
of governments and the repudiation of all standards of all biblical morality, the harbinger of Satan's bands having been 
removed. " The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the Lord and His anointed,
saying, Let us break their bands asunder, and cast away their cords from us."

To quote," For over a century the western world has been departing from the grounds of faith, in theology, science, and even in 
art and music,---it indicates a condition in the minds of men which can only arise as the heathenish spirit moves into the vacuum
which has been created by agnosticism and atheism of the age". The loosing of Satan is a returning to the heathenism that dominated
before the coming of Christ.
The thousand years of Satan's binding must be understood of the triumph of the gospel. A-millennianism means no-millennium , but as 
an A-milliennialist I believe in a millennium, but a spiritual one by nature and not a temporal one. and in that time period Satan is bound
through the gospel.




9


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## A5pointer (Apr 28, 2013)

Thank you. I am sure this has been hashed out. But, would someone take a shot at a semi-pithy answer if possible to the following questions and contextual thoughts. I know you all like a challenge. Satan/demons, where are they? Is a believer to see Satan as a capable foe(now)? If so, what does he do to attack? Who does he attack? I have thoughts on this that lead me to a simple opinion that fear of Satan is not a concern for the believer. However the tension lies in recognizing the scant warnings in the biblical text to indeed be aware of Satan and his intentions.


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## Peairtach (Apr 28, 2013)

KMK said:


> Peairtach said:
> 
> 
> > > I am assuming that you do not think the present world is so. I was just curious if you could explain what kinds of things we should see when these parables are fulfilled. Or do you believe that they will only be fulfilled at the moment Christ returns?
> ...



The Jews would have to be converted as a nation (e.g. Romans 11), apostate Christianity would have to be overthrown (e.g. Revelation 18), all nations, including as nation states, would have to become Christian (e.g. Psalm 89:6; Revelation 19; I Corinthians 15:25-26); there would be a long period of peace and prosperity (e.g. Isaiah 11).


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## Peairtach (Apr 28, 2013)

Jeff


Cymro said:


> It is through the death and resurrection of our Saviour that Satan is bound. And is related to
> Math12:28-29, "how can one enter into a strong man's house and spoil his goods Except He
> FIRST BIND THE STRONG MAN? and THEN He will spoil his house," The whole world lay in darkness
> and in the shadow of death. So Acts 14:16, "In times past God suffered ALL nations to walk in their
> ...



Some amils, like yourself, and Steve (Rafalsky) seem to be of the opinion that we are in the "end times", a bit like premils used to be accused of believing.

I presume that such amils are not the "Optimistic Amils", or am I wrong?


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## Cymro (Apr 28, 2013)

Rich----A-Mills have been branded into optimistic and pessimistic and generally by those who are opposed 
to the doctrine. The scriptures tell me that no man knows the hour or the day, but counsels also to read the times and
seasons. I don't know if these are the end times but we are to watch and pray. If at all I am to be labelled, then I am pessimistic
as far as man is concerned, but optimistic towards God and His infallible purposes. He doeth all things well. I believe what I stated
previously is the right interpretation of binding and loosing, but I would not dogmatically state that these are the end times. But I would
say that we as believers have failed to recognise, that our nation has declined and apostatised so rapidly in such a short space of time, 
that there is quite a supine spiritual attitude to the danger that looms. 
I could expand on the moral rot that pervades; the total rejection of Christianity by the public; the eclipsing of the faith of our fathers,
and the degeneration of reformed and evangelical worship, but you have eyes to see for yourself. I am optimistic dear brother, because our 
God is sovereign and doeth His will in the armies of heaven, and amongst the inhabitants of the earth.
I can still sing enthusiastically, adoringly and optimistically --
"For God is King of all the earth;
with knowledge praise express.
God rules the nations: God sits on
His throne of holiness."


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## Peairtach (Apr 28, 2013)

Whether we're postmil or amil, we should be realistic about the present condition of things in Britain and other Western nations.


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## Resting on God (Apr 30, 2013)

To Richard Tallach, 
I believe the "last days" began at Pentecost when the new covenant outpouring of the Spirit took place(see Acts 2:17-21; 1 John 2:18; Hebrews 1:1-3; 1 Peter 4:7). I don't know any amillennialists who are into the idea that WWII, Israel 1948/1967, UFOs, newspaper headlines, Justin Bieber, etc mark our being in the last days. The "optimistic" amil sees the same progress of the gospel as the postmil does(maybe to a lesser degree??). The difference is we/I believe the millennium is heavenly(not an earthy theonomy) and began at the ascension of King Jesus, not some unknown point still in our future. Keith Mathison, though he calls himself a Postmillennialists, is actually an optimistic amillennialist  I do believe(as many optimistic amils do) that there will be a great aposasy and man of sin in Satan's little season, a general resurrection and judgment at the literal second coming of Christ(i'm only a partial preterist, I know many optimistic amils are full pret). In the meantime, however, the gospel could control the world for a while. This is the point where I throw my theological hands in the air and surrender to complete uncertainty. E.g. Will there be an Islam in 100 years?? Maybe, or maybe not at all. I'm optimistic vs. the pessimistic amil and premils who seem dogmatically certain that most of the world will never know the Lord. Never underestimate the soveriegn God and His gospel, for it is "the power of God unto salvation for all who believe"--Romans 1:16. Richard, you quote Psalm 72; an excellent passages for this discussion: Does the phrase "all nations shall call Him blessed" mean the majority of individual persons(assumedly leading to a "Christian" earth) or does He mean that every nation will house Christianity to a greater or lesser degree? My answer: I don't know. So far history attests to the latter interpretation. The future, however, is in God's sovereign hands. Until the end, I will continue(as I hope all here will) to share the gospel and preach the Word to whomever will listen.

Brian Smither,
Member,
Trinity Presbyterian Church,
Lakeland, FL


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