# Were OT saints redeemed before or after Christ?



## Andrew P.C. (Oct 17, 2008)

From a recent discussion about 4-pointerism, I was reminded of something that I just have had trouble with trying to understand. I know there are different positions on this, but I would love to discuss this.

Were OT saints redeemed before the death of Christ? Were OT saints put in a "holding tank" (as some have put it)?

This comes from a recent post where one has said Christ has purchased redemption for us, which would also include "all the saving graces that go with it.. regenertaion". Is regeneration a product of redemption? In what sense? If so how do we look at the OT saints?

(I know that you would not be regenerate if Christ did not die for you, so the two aren't mutually exclusive.)


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## Christusregnat (Oct 17, 2008)

Andrew P.C. said:


> From a recent discussion about 4-pointerism, I was reminded of something that I just have had trouble with trying to understand. I know there are different positions on this, but I would love to discuss this.
> 
> Were OT saints redeemed before the death of Christ? Were OT saints put in a "holding tank" (as some have put it)?
> 
> ...




Andrew,

Christ is the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. The OT saints were just that: saints. One cannot be a saint unless he is justified; one cannot be justified unless he believes; one cannot believe unless he is regenerated; one cannot be regenerated unless the Holy Spirit puts the "seed of God" within him; one cannot have the Holy Spirit bring him to life unless God the Son died for his sins; one can't have Christ die for his sins unless the Father has chosen him.

All that prolixity to say, salvation has always been trinitarian, and it always will be. OT to NT; from Fall to Consummation.

Cheers,


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## Scott1 (Oct 17, 2008)

My (non-theologian's) understanding:

"Redemption" is a process which includes election, regeneration, justification, adoption, sanctification and glorification. Election was done in eternity past by God so that certainly included God's people in the Old as well as New Testaments.

I think we do say someone is "elect" before the other elements might actually happen.

In the Old Testament, God's people looked toward the promised Messiah, Redeemer (Christ). In the New Testament, God's people look back at the promised, risen Savior (Christ). So, salvation was always by God's grace through faith in Christ.

One (of many) verses that has helped me understand this is:


> Luke 24:27
> 
> 27And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.



When Christ died on the cross, he actually purchased salvation (by his perfect sacrifice on the cross and His perfect obedience in a perfect, sinless life) for the elect- past, present and future.


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## R. Scott Clark (Oct 17, 2008)

Andrew,

When you get to Pendleton, come see us. We're a short drive down the 5 to Oceanside/Carlsbad. We have two or three Marines in the congregation right now.

Here are some resources on this question:

Westminster Seminary California clark

Westminster Seminary California clark

Consider 1 Cor 10, Hebrews 11 among other passages on the unity of the covenant of grace.


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