# Gettysburg



## Scott (Sep 21, 2005)

Ok, not really "church" history, but what were the major strategic or tactical errors that led to a Confederate loss at Gettysburg? Is it true that Longstreet strongly opposed the attack and preferred a defensive war of digging in?


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

Confederate Calvary leader Jeb Stuart being missing in action didn't help, but it was Lee's boldness and his offensive uphill march. Pickett never forgave Lee for the charge he ordered. Hindsight is 20/20.


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)




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## ChristopherPaul (Sep 21, 2005)

I grew up 20 miles west of Gettysburg. I have been through the town and the battlefields and museums too many times to count. I have camped there, rode bikes there, and my family even rode horseback through the battlefields. My father-in-law was a Union soldier in the movie _Gettysburg_, I read and enjoyed the book _Killer Angels_, my dad is a self proclaimed Civil War "buff", and yet, I am ashamed to admit, I am not sure what the major strategic or tactical errors were that led to a Confederate loss.

I disgrace my family honor"¦

*lowers head in shame*


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Is it true that Longstreet strongly opposed the attack and preferred a defensive war of digging in?



I think Longstreet would have done things differently if he was in Lee's shoes, but it may be misleading to presume he did not want to take the enemy head on and just entrench. However, Lee was no dummy though he made some serious mistakes and miscalculations that left his army decimated at Gettysburg... It is real easy to be an after-the-fact quarterback when you are looking at a birdeye's view map of the battle and how it ensued. Hindsight is always 20/20. The intelligence was lacking and the Confederates admittedly made innumerable errors. 

Longstreet was a good general and tried to use terrain to his advantage and was averse to uphill charges. A letter by Gen. Robert E. Lee reveals Longstreet's boldness and that he was delayed in his move up the high rocky ground in the vicinity of the Devil's Den, but hewas adamant in his desire to turn the extreme left flank of the Union lines. Ultimately, he failed at Gettysburg because he never got Round Top and they should have got their men into high ground positions before the first day of battle ensued. Neither Longstreet nor Pickett really approved of Lee's plan-- they just went along for the ride... In 50 minutes, 10,000 in the assault on Cemetary Ridge would become casualties, and the attack known as Pickett's Charge went down in the annals of history as Lee's biggest blunder. Many of the men in Pickett's charge were from my neck of the woods in southside Virginia. Though, Pickett kind of acquiesced as Lee gave him a nod and went into battle willingly, in the fatal aftermath, Pickett got real mad and eschewed contact with Lee and his bitter resentment lasted for years. 

Longstreet wrote a book about the war entitled _From Manassas to Appomattox_ and devoted a chapter to Gettysburg. He said of his contemporary General Lee, "The Confederate chief at Gettysburg looked something like Napelon at Waterloo."

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by Puritanhead]


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## Plimoth Thom (Sep 21, 2005)

The most important error the Confederates made at Gettysburg was that they allowed the Union troops to occupy Culp's Hill/Cemetary Ridge at the end of the first day. The second biggest error was that they did not take Little Round Top on the second day. The battle was lost after that. Lee could have disengaged and retired to fight on different ground, but that would have been extremely hard to do in the face of superior numbers.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 21, 2005)

Being without Stonewall Jackson didn't help the Confederate cause either...

Stonewall Jackson at Gettysburg

How Stonewall Jackson's Death Impacted Confederate Military Operations

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## ChristopherPaul (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Plimoth Thom_
> The most important error the Confederates made at Gettysburg was that they allowed the Union troops to occupy Culp's Hill/Cemetary Ridge at the end of the first day. The second biggest error was that they did not take Little Round Top on the second day. The battle was lost after that. Lee could have disengaged and retired to fight on different ground, but that would have been extremely hard to do in the face of superior numbers.



Aha! Now this rings some bells from my former life.


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

I'm just waiting for the day that a time machine is invented... and me and my merry band of Neo-Confederate cohorts are going back in time with thousands of AK-47s to change history and aid the good guys! And don't give me any flack about disrupting the space-time continuum or going against God's will. If I go back in time and change history than it is God's will!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 21, 2005)

Okay, Timecop!


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

*Back to the Future - May 8, 1863*



> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Okay, Timecop!









*Confederate Secret Service Above Top Secret*

*Special Memo*

September 21, 2005
*****
Actually, me and Doc Brown are working on a new prototype car for taking passengers back. Our Confederate Chaplain Laurence Underwood cut a deal with the supplier of the defunct Delorean company, and the Delorean will serve as our human transport vehicle in our time traveling expedition. We might commission a special-issue Dodge Charger too, but we're trying not to be _too conspicious_ about our endeavor. Keep this quiet. We're utilizing decommissioned UPS trucks that are specially refurbished and repainted to transport our "cargo." 

Does any one know where I can get some plutonium for the flux capacitor? We would try the yankee government, but they only give away plutonium to the North Koreans, plus we don't want to raise any flags -- at least not yet. As soon as we get the plutonium, we're going back to the Wilderness on May 8, 1863 to preempt the accidental shooting of Stonewall Jackson two days later. The illustrious Thomas Jonathan Jackson is going to be our second Confederate President you know!

Deo vindice!
:bigsmile:






*****
Digital Intelligence Photo Enclosed






End Transmittal
*****


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## Herald (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott_
> Ok, not really "church" history, but what were the major strategic or tactical errors that led to a Confederate loss at Gettysburg? Is it true that Longstreet strongly opposed the attack and preferred a defensive war of digging in?



Longstreet did oppose a frontal assault on the Federal lines. But the movie was inaccurate. Longstreet was not as dramatic as was Tom Berenger. He was as culpable in the Confederate defeat as was Lee. 

Confederate forces failed to have the necessary intelligence on the first day of battle. Had they known they would have been facing Reynold's entire army, they would have planned accordingly and probably taken Cemetery ridge. While this would not have guaranteed a victory, it certainly would have improved the Confederate left flank. 

The battle on the Federal left flank (2nd day of the battle) was fraught with error. The attack was poorly conceived and never should have taken place. But even in the midst of the ill started attack, the Confederates could have taken the Federal left flank on Little Round Top if they had reinforcements. They never arrived and the attack faltered. 

Lee's decision to launch a frontal assault at the angle was nothing short of military malfeasance. It was over before it started. Lee believed the Federal center to be thin. But the number of Federal troops in the center was not what caused him to lose the advance. It was the Federal artillery that carried the day. Well supplied and expertly manned, the Federal cannons decimated the advancing Confederates. The infantry that did make it to the wall were easily contained, driven back and/or captured.

As for me, I am thankful for Lee's blunder. Long live the Union!



[Edited on 9-21-2005 by BaptistInCrisis]


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## Puritanhead (Sep 21, 2005)

Dixie Victorious!


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## Herald (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"Dream on...dream until your dreams come true....."


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## Richard King (Sep 21, 2005)

At this very moment one should be tuned in to the history channel. I am home (sick with the flu) and the History Channel is doing great Gettysburg stuff. Currently fighting the battle of Little Round Top. I also noticed that at 4pm (central time) they are doing something on the death of Stonewall Jackson.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 21, 2005)

Gotta get me one of dem DeLorean General Lees!


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## ChristopherPaul (Sep 21, 2005)

Alright, now I am curious.

I see there are a lot of Rebels around here.

What made the south the "good guys"?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Alright, now I am curious.
> 
> I see there are a lot of Rebels around here.
> ...


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## ChristopherPaul (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



I expected that.


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## Bladestunner316 (Sep 21, 2005)

Lincoln made the South good guys!!!!


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## Richard King (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Bladestunner316_
> Lincoln made the South good guys!!!!




That has to be the classic answer of all time.
hooahh


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## PuritanCovenanter (Sep 21, 2005)

What made the South so good to me was the fact that I learned more about the War and it's causes outside of the Government Schools. 

Check out this thread. Look for the articles by Walter Williams.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Alright, now I am curious.
> 
> I see there are a lot of Rebels around here.
> ...



Hindsight, although few would have agreed then: John Brown. Brown slaughtered innocent individuals after being hired by six northern Unitarians. 

Technically speaking, the Constitution and documents from the Founding Fathers validated secession.

The North maintained slaves until after the war.
Lincoln freed the slaves in areas he did not control; he kept enslaved those whom he had the power to free.

The Consistency of the Southrons.
The Reformed Worldview of the Confederates (part of the subject of my book).


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## Scott (Sep 21, 2005)

Just finished Killer Angels. It portrayed Longstreet as adamant against the Gettysburg assault and thinking about resigning instead of leading it. What do people think of the book?


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## Richard King (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Alright, now I am curious.
> 
> I see there are a lot of Rebels around here.
> ...





really that is a good, fair and honest question.
Just read someday what Sherman and his people did to non combatants in his taking of Atlanta
or consider the fact that Union General Grant himself had slaves.

It gets much more cloudy than the story they tell us in grade school.
They say truth is the first casualty of war and they also say the victor gets to write the history so in anything it is always good to question the official government approved version of a story.

My quick explanation is really this:
I think the real reason most southerners have a low opinion of the north has less to do with the war than the dishonorable things that happen after the war. 
Sadly, the South expected honorable treatment because that was their way. Lee learned his biggest lesson after the surrender.


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## AdamM (Sep 21, 2005)

> Just finished Killer Angels. It portrayed Longstreet as adamant against the Gettysburg assault and thinking about resigning instead of leading it. What do people think of the book?



Of course, history has vindicated Longstreet. Imagine if instead of engaging the Union army, Lee switches into defensive posture, conserving his resources, moving his army intact back into friendlier territory, it isn't hard to see a very different outcome of the conflict.

[Edited on 9-21-2005 by AdamM]


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## Herald (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> Alright, now I am curious.
> 
> I see there are a lot of Rebels around here.
> ...



They weren't. They were traitors. They lost. Union preserved. End of story.


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## Bladestunner316 (Sep 21, 2005)




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## RamistThomist (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Really? How come no one speaks of the union anymore? How come we now refer to THIS united states, and not THESE united states?


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## LadyFlynt (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



One thing I want to point out on here...when the southerners speak of the war they attack the ppl in charge and the actions that ensued, they don't attack the entire north as you have just done with the south. In truth, I don't think you would take it too kindly if northerners were called tyrants.

Play nice boys or I'll shut it down. (and I mean both yanks and rebs!)

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by LadyFlynt]


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## PuritanCovenanter (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> ...



Bill, 
Why were they traitors? 
I don't think the Union was preserved. I believe it was made at this point. 
Also, what do you believe were the major reasons the War between the states started?


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## fredtgreco (Sep 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LadyFlynt_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> ...



Actually, the South vs. North vs. South vs. North quarrelling will stop right now in this thread. Take it to one of the 97 threads in the Politics, or News forums.

The next post that is not directly related to military manoevers and military history gets this baby closed.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Sep 21, 2005)

I would like to say one thing. This isn't a race thing for me. I hope no one thinks it is. Red, Yellow, Black, and White we are precious in His sight.


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## LawrenceU (Sep 21, 2005)

I can't believe that no one has mentioned Gingrich's Gettysburg. It is a great read and shows how Lee could have won. 

A little known fact that would have changed the course of the war was that of the dirt. Yep, you should read my GGGrandfather's accound of the fussilade that they unleashed. The dirt was so soft where the Southern artillery was set that the tails dug deeply and the round went beyond the lines and hit in the rear. Had that incredible cannonade went as plans there would have been no Union lines on the hill tops. The gunners, of which he was one, could not depress their weapons sufficiently to maintain elevations that had effect.


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## LadyFlynt (Sep 21, 2005)

Interesting and very nice that you have those accounts.

[Edited on 9-22-2005 by LadyFlynt]


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## LadyFlynt (Sep 21, 2005)

Sorry, but you were warned. Again, if you want to continue this, then take it to politics.


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