# Genesis 15:12



## (^^)Regin (Jan 22, 2013)

"As the sun was going down, a deep sleep fell on Abram. And behold, dreadful and great darkness fell upon him."

1. What is the significance of the "darkness"? Was this the presence of God? If so why darkness instead of light?
2. Does this have any connection with the darkness that happened on Christ' death on the cross?

Many thanks in advance!


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## Jack K (Jan 22, 2013)

It fits with the time spent in Egypt, which is brought up next.

But I think it fits God as well. There's a sense in which it entails some terror for sinful beings to deal with God. The fire that passes through the animal pieces is not a cheery campfire. It comes to Abram with the word of the Only Holy God, and that is not something to take lightly. The promises are sweet, but the presence of God still feels ominous.

There are parallels to God's appearance on Mt. Sinai, with the fire imagery and the covenant announcement and all. Remember how that mountain too was scary and ominous. But our experience, says Hebrews, is different: "But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blook that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel" (Hebrews 12:22-24).

With Jesus as our mediator, the gloomy dread is gone for us who are in Christ. Not that we ever take God lightly. But we do find him wonderously, amazingly approachable.

And yes, that three hours of darkness on the cross made it possible. The only man for whom the presence of the Father should not have been dreadful—never, ever before had been dreadful—experienced it so that we can know the Father's welcome with all that gloomy darkness far removed.


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## (^^)Regin (Jan 24, 2013)

Noted, however I'm having difficulty in resolving it with 1 John 1:5. Does this mean the darkness explained in 1 John is sin and not the absence of light? Again, thanks in advance!


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 24, 2013)

"Darkness" has judgment associations. It evokes fear, dread. This covenant-making ceremony is fraught with dread solemnity. When the Lord is cloaked in the black robes of the Judge, he has not ceased to be Light. But here is a different manifestation of himself.

Light goes with life. God is not less present in hell (he is everywhere), but he does not give light there, but takes it away. All men know of God there is wrath and penalty, destruction "away from the presence of the Lord" forever (1Ths.1:9). Imagine an everlasting shove (into the blackness of darkness, away from the Light) that never runs out of energy.

When God passed (alone) through the pieces of the destroyed animals, he was making a deadly promise. In ancient symbolic terms: "I will fulfill my word, or let me be as these things." Of course, God is always as good as his word, but this is just the point of the author of Hebrews 6:17-18. He confirms it with this oath-visual.

And of course, in order to keep his Word, God the Son actually bears the curse of the first covenant himself. He takes on our flesh, and is destroyed in it.


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## Peairtach (Jan 24, 2013)

> And when birds of prey came down on the carcasses, Abram drove them away. (Gen 15:11, ESV)





> When the sun had gone down and it was dark, behold, a smoking fire pot and a flaming torch passed between these pieces. (Gen 15:17, ESV)



What is the significance, if any, of the birds of prey, and the smoking fire pot and flaming torch?


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