# Apart from God’s revelation, can we have true knowledge of anything?



## Pergamum (Feb 11, 2016)

Apart from God’s revelation, can we have true knowledge of anything?

If we don't need God's revelation to know anything, does this mean that we possess at least partial autonomous human reason?

Berkhof says this..but what does he mean by adding "nature" in there as well?:


> “Alongside of the archetypal knowledge of God, found in himself, there is also an ectypal knowledge of Him, given to man by revelation. The latter is related to the former as a copy to the original, and therefore does not possess the same measure of clearness and perfection. All our knowledge of God is derived from His self-revelation in nature and in Scripture. Consequently, our knowledge of God is on the one hand ectypal and analogical, but on the other hand also true and accurate, since it is a copy of the archetypal knowledge which God has of himself” (Berkhof, ST, 35).




When Berkhof says, "All our knowledge of God is derived from His self-revelation in nature and in Scripture" it seems he means that we can come to true knowledge apart from God's revelation in Scripture? Can anyone explain this? Does this mean our human reason can come to at least some truth by "nature"?


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## MW (Feb 11, 2016)

Pergamum said:


> Does this mean our human reason can come to at least some truth by "nature"?



As reason is an act of consciousness the person must know that he himself exists and is a rational being, and must have some knowledge that others exist with rational powers who reason with him. And what does his reason seek as an object? Truth. So he must know that truth exists. And the qualities of this truth must be known to him to some extent. And these qualities only find their ultimate epistemic justification in the God of truth. This is God's revelation of Himself in the consciousness of man, which leaves men inexcusable.


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## Ed Walsh (Feb 11, 2016)

MW said:


> these qualities only find their ultimate epistemic justification in the God of truth



Well said.

Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the Lord is the beginning* of knowledge:

*what comes first, what is first, starting point, thus the very foundation or prerequisite of true knowledge.

Because man is made in the image of God, the unbeliver does know things that are true, but he can not give an account of what he knows. He can never be sure of anything.


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