# the applause of men



## christiana (Apr 14, 2009)

In your church during the offertory is there at times special singing, a solo or such? Does the congregation applaud? When applause is given does that signify that it was done as entertainment? Is there any problem with applauding in church? Under what circumstances would it be acceptable or not acceptable?


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## PresbyDane (Apr 14, 2009)

Well in the fellowship were I come they do applaud, for a job well done by the performer, but I do not think it is a good idea.


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## OPC'n (Apr 14, 2009)

no solos... worship is for God not mankind to show off


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## Scottish Lass (Apr 14, 2009)

Tim has been trying to discourage applause. It's a rarity (a particularly good job by the choir, for example), but he's searching for a gentle way to discourage it.


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## DonP (Apr 14, 2009)

Our church claps in applause to God, praising Him for what the people did. 

Hmmm... but do all of the do this and know the distinction? 

We only have special music a couple times a year


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## Edward (Apr 14, 2009)

Occasionally. If an elder joins in, he may get an email from me. Most of the pastors try, with more or less effort, to discourage it, but I don't think the leadership is ready to make it a major battleground at this point.


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## SueS (Apr 18, 2009)

At our church most people understand why we don't applaud and it's done very rarely - instead, they are encouraged to say "amen". Of course, this doesn't happen very much either  My dd gets to do a special occasionally (mom's brag - she has a beautiful voice!) and her dh can't understand why we don't applaud - they do it all the time at his (our former) church, even when the man in charge gets up to speak.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Apr 18, 2009)

We have solos and special performances for the offertory, which I think is fine. But I don't like applause in worship because it focuses the attention on human performance rather than on God. Applauding is subtly discouraged at our church, but is still common after very good performances.


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## Zenas (Apr 18, 2009)

I don't applaud. Many others in the congregation do and, sometimes, I feel some who sing expect applause. 

I don't like special music.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 18, 2009)

I don't particular care for special music (really, it's just the choir singing a hymn during the collection), and I only know of two or three times where it's happened. Last week one person in the congregation started to clap and I visibly shook my head, so it stopped immediately. The week before I had preached on how worship is not entertainment, and I specifically used an example of a preacher being continually applauded during a sermon (John Hagee, though I did not specifically mention him by name) and how foolish this is.

Sigh. It's a long slow process. But God is good and He does change worldly hearts.


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Apr 18, 2009)

No applause in our church. Should a visitor happen to applaude for some reason we all hit them afterward with our hymnals. They never do it again after that! 

Kidding of course. We are in "Cold" New England. Nobody applaudes in New England churches!


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## Davidius (Apr 18, 2009)

Clapping "focuses on human performance instead of God" in the same way that feeding the poor "focuses on human needs instead of serving God."


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## BJClark (Apr 18, 2009)

Many offer applause in our church, but I don't, and I discourage my kids from doing it..it makes me uncomfortable, as I often times wonder if they are seeking the applause from men..after the applause I wonder when the people singing are going to start taking a bow..


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## Scottish Lass (Apr 18, 2009)

Davidius said:


> Clapping "focuses on human performance instead of God" in the same way that feeding the poor "focuses on human needs instead of serving God."



Do you applaud live theatre? Why?

Do you applaud other sections of worship? Why?


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## Theognome (Apr 18, 2009)

Special music during offertory? Why do you even need an offertory, much less special music for it?

Theognome


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## Montanablue (Apr 18, 2009)

We do have music during the offertory, but we don't applaud. Occasionally a visitor will start, and I always feel a little badly for them as they immediately start to feel awkward! I think they usually feel that applauding is the "polite" thing to do. 

For those who don't like special music during worship, I have a question. Do you only dislike it during public worship or would you also be opposed to it in a non-worship setting? (For example, a high school choir performing Handal's Messiah or a hymn.) I'm not baiting - I'm truly curious!


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## jlynn (Apr 18, 2009)

There is never applause at my church after the special singing.


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## Scott1 (Apr 18, 2009)

I seem to have picked up the notion that one ought not clap after something religious in church, from the time I was very young. My mother said not to clap after "hymns," for example.

Corporate worship is not about applauding people, singers or performances. It is about God and I think the regulative principle applies. We don't want to foster an atmosphere where people participating in worship look to the applause or recognition of others- that's not what it is about.

I've heard of people on Puritan Board who will not sing hymns because of their "EP" convictions.

I try not to applaud, but abstain, when that occasionally occurs in worship. Haven't been moved to address it with others, only a quiet conviction held for a long time.


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## Rich Koster (Apr 18, 2009)

The only thing I have ever been lead to give applause for is a tradition of giving a heroes welcome to sponsored missionaries who were visiting.


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## Grace Alone (Apr 18, 2009)

At my former church, there was always piano (keyboard) music being played during the offering, and occasionally one of the members did a solo. It was inappropriate on many levels. And yes, people clapped.

At my current church, we have never had a solo that I can recall (and we don't have a choir), but the pastor's children have accompanied the piano with violin and trumpet during the service before. The last time, someone started to clap and he shook his head and stopped it (sounds like Tim!). So I don't think anyone will try and clap again. Worship is for the Lord and not to praise the musicians.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 18, 2009)

Grace Alone said:


> Worship is for the Lord and not to praise the musicians.


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## Webservant (Apr 18, 2009)

People clap in the PCA?


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## Marrow Man (Apr 18, 2009)

Webservant said:


> People clap in the PCA?



Only when FVers leave!


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## DonP (Apr 18, 2009)

Who is the 'performance" for? 

If it is in worship it is to be to and for the Lord. This is their sacrifice to the Lord not to and for us so we should not take away their reward in heaven by giving them a reward now. 

At my mom's church, a GARB 4 point church a young boy 8 or 9 sang a solo and they clapped for him and he was upset and asked his mom why they clapped because he was doing it for God not for man .

They normally didn't clap but because he was young they did.

Out of the mouths of babes !!

John 12:42 Nevertheless even among the rulers many believed in Him, but because of the Pharisees they did not confess Him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue; 43 *for they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God*. NKJV

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; *whose praise is not of men, *but of God. KJV

Matt 6:16For they disfigure their faces that they may appear to men to be fasting. Assuredly, I say to you, *they have their reward.* 17 But you, when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you do not appear to men to be fasting, but to your Father who is in the secret place; and *your Father who sees in secret will reward you openly*. NKJV

Matt 6:6 "But you, when you pray, go into your inner room, and when you have shut your door, pray to your Father who is in secret, and your Father who sees in secret will repay you. NASB


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## Mindaboo (Apr 18, 2009)

We don't clap in our church for any of the music. We don't often have solos sung, but the children in our church do play piano or something like that. 

We have personally struggled with this issue ourselves since we have a violin, cello and viola player in our home. My oldest daughter has resisted playing in the church since she was a little girl. She has played the offertory one time with a friend who was playing piano. 

The downside is that the one time she played no one clapped, which she was fine with, but they did seek her out after worship to tell her what a great job she had done. I think it took away from what she was trying to do. 

It is tough, because the Lord has blessed my children with the gift of music and we want them to honor and glorify God whether it is in their practice at home, in their lessons, or their performances whether in church or on stage at the university.


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## DonP (Apr 18, 2009)

Mindaboo said:


> It is tough, because the Lord has blessed my children with the gift of music and we want them to honor and glorify God whether it is in their practice at home, in their lessons, or their performances whether in church or on stage at the university.



That's great, so have special mid week performances. They can be secular as well if beneficial and still god centered and God honoring. 

Then people can clap or not as you set it up in the beginning. 

There is no problem with pleasing men, or accepting praise, or even collection money for performing, just not in the worship service.


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## ChariotsofFire (Apr 19, 2009)

Montanablue said:


> We do have music during the offertory, but we don't applaud. Occasionally a visitor will start, and I always feel a little badly for them as they immediately start to feel awkward! I think they usually feel that applauding is the "polite" thing to do.
> 
> For those who don't like special music during worship, I have a question. Do you only dislike it during public worship or would you also be opposed to it in a non-worship setting? (For example, a high school choir performing Handal's Messiah or a hymn.) I'm not baiting - I'm truly curious!



In our church we don't have any special music. Outside of corporate worship I do enjoy hearing solo performances and listening to Handel's Messiah. The issue is whether having a few people sing in front of the congregation is appropriate corporate worship.


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## Pergamum (Apr 19, 2009)

An Amen and a hand clap is the VERY same thing symbolically!


The very title of the thread is biased..."Are we seeking the applause of men..." 


Applause is showing appreciation both to the singer and to God for giving the singer ability. 

We need not equate singing in church to be "performance"..and if you do, then everytime your preacher raises his voice or shakes his fingers, you all need to get after him also because "we don't need to be showing off".....


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## OPC'n (Apr 19, 2009)

No clapping allowed!!!!


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## DonP (Apr 19, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> Applause is showing appreciation both to the singer and to God for giving the singer ability.
> 
> We need not equate singing in church to be "performance"..and if you do, then everytime your preacher raises his voice or shakes his fingers, you all need to get after him also because "we don't need to be showing off".....



Oh come on 

So does the pastor announce this so people know your view of applause? 

Others would not. They would think it appreciation. 

And both are not proper in worship if all did think that. 

Only applause to God would be appropriate. 

So if they said, lets Give God applause for giving that person ability then you could maybe applaud, after the person left the stage.


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## Pergamum (Apr 19, 2009)

If only applause to God is appropriate, you should not compliment your pastor on the way out the door for a "good sermon."


Why do we need to block appreciation? We need more of it.


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## DonP (Apr 19, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> If only applause to God is appropriate, you should not compliment your pastor on the way out the door for a "good sermon."
> 
> 
> Why do we need to block appreciation? We need more of it.



I wouldn't clap at the end of the sermon would you?


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## Pergamum (Apr 19, 2009)

Ha, good point.

But, I wouldn't assume bad motives for those who clap after a song either.

We should nurture appreciation. If you feel clapping is bad, let's make sure we appreciate people in 1,000 other ways even if our hands are quiet.


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## DonP (Apr 19, 2009)

Pergamum said:


> Ha, good point.
> 
> But, I wouldn't assume bad motives for those who clap after a song either.
> 
> ...



I agree and think this would be a good thread for you to start on the positive pro active, " Think on these things" side

What are some ways we can show our brothers and sis appreciation and more Biblical and important, encouragement and provoke them to love and good deeds. 
I hope that would be your end in mind of the appreciation rather than bolstering their self esteem or tempting them to pride.


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## Pergamum (Apr 19, 2009)

Good idea, brother!


Here is my suggested list to show appreciation to other Christians:


--Send your pastor gift certificates to bookstores, or write him thank you notes.
--Thank those who sing, serve, etc, for their services,
--During prayer times, not only petition God for needs but also thank God for his goodness and then specifically focus on the mercies of God through the work of other people, since God blesses us through each other very often.
--Meet and greet guests,
--Smile at people and think of all the God in that person (through God's grace),



Also, the ONe Another's of Scripture can guideus.... see below:


*The One-Another's and Each-Other's of the Bible*

Leviticus 19:11	"'Do not steal. "'Do not lie. "'Do not deceive one another.

John 13:14 Now that I, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also should wash one another's feet.

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another.

John 13:35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."

Romans 12:10 Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves.

Romans 12:16 Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited.

Romans 13:8 Let no debt remain outstanding, except the continuing debt to love one another, for he who loves his fellowman has fulfilled the law.

Romans 14:13 Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way.

Romans 15:7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.

Romans 15:14 I myself am convinced, my brothers, that you yourselves are full of goodness, complete in knowledge and competent to instruct one another.
Romans 16:16 Greet one another with a holy kiss. All the churches of Christ send greetings.

1 Corinthians 1:10 I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.

Galatians 5:13 You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

Ephesians 4:2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love.

Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Ephesians 5:19 Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord,

Ephesians 5:21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Colossians 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Colossians 3:16	Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly as you teach and admonish one another with all wisdom, and as you sing psalms, hymns and spiritual songs with gratitude in your hearts to God.

1 Thessalonians 5:11	Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

Hebrews 3:13	But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called Today, so that none of you may be hardened by sin's deceitfulness.

Hebrews 10:24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.

Hebrews 10:25 Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another-- and all the more as you see the Day approaching.

James 4:11 Brothers, do not slander one another. Anyone who speaks against his brother or judges him speaks against the law and judges it. When you judge the law, you are not keeping it, but sitting in judgment on it.

1 Peter 3:8 Finally, all of you, live in harmony with one another; be sympathetic, love as brothers, be compassionate and humble.

1 Peter 4:9 Offer hospitality to one another without grumbling.

1 Peter 5:5 Young men, in the same way be submissive to those who are older. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another , because, "God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble." 

1 John 1:7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus, his Son, purifies us from all sin.

1 John 3:11 This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.

1 John 3:23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us.

1 John 4:7 Dear friends, let us love one another, for love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.

1 John 4:11 Dear friends, since God so loved us, we also ought to love one another.

1 John 4:12 No one has ever seen God; but if we love one another, God lives in us and his love is made complete in us.

1 Peter 4:8 Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

James 5:16 Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.

James 5:9 Don't grumble against each other, brothers, or you will be judged. The Judge is standing at the door!

Hebrews 13:1 Keep on loving each other as brothers.

2 Thessalonians 1:3 We ought always to thank God for you, brothers, and rightly so, because your faith is growing more and more, and the love every one of you has for each other is increasing.

1 Thessalonians 5:15 Make sure that nobody pays back wrong for wrong, but always try to be kind to each other and to everyone else.

1 Thessalonians 5:13 Hold them in the highest regard in love because of their work. Live in peace with each other.

1 Thessalonians 5:11 Therefore encourage one another and build each other up, just as in fact you are doing.

1 Thessalonians 4:18 Therefore encourage each other with these words.

1 Thessalonians 4:9 Now about brotherly love we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.

1 Thessalonians 3:12 May the Lord make your love increase and overflow for each other and for everyone else, just as ours does for you.

Colossians 3:13 Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you.

Colossians 3:9 Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices

Philippians 4:2 I plead with Euodia and I plead with Syntyche to agree with each other in the Lord.

Ephesians 4:32 Be kind and compassionate to one another, forgiving each other, just as in Christ God forgave you.

Galatians 5:26 Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other.

Galatians 6:2 Carry each other's burdens, and in this way you will fulfill the law of Christ.

Corinthians 12:25 so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.

Galatians 5:15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

1 Corinthians 11:33 So then, my brothers, when you come together to eat, wait for each other.

Romans 1:12 that is, that you and I may be mutually encouraged by each other's faith.

Ephesians 4:16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.

Philippians 2:3-5 Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit, but in humility consider others better than yourselves. Each of you should look not only to your own interests, but also to the interests of others. Your attitude should be the same as that of Christ Jesus.


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