# Half hearted apologies



## arapahoepark (Mar 17, 2020)

How should one deal with half hearted apologies? Those that say things like, "sorry you were offended," or more recently from an employee (who is under me mind you), "I am sorry about the other day but you still weasel out of things."
Rarely, do they admit wrongdoing and do not change. Do you accept and move on?


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## py3ak (Mar 17, 2020)

I think it depends on the offense and the relationship. If someone vandalizes your house, "I'm sorry you chose to paint your house in that peculiarly annoying color" is not an acceptable apology. But if (as happens in the British Parliament), someone in effect says, "In deference to the Speaker I withdraw that opprobrious word and apologize to the House" that is acceptable. 

So from an employee, a face-saving or self-justifying jab at you embedded in an apology is probably not a big deal. In spite of that deficiency, they are recognizing that they overstepped a boundary and are trying to preserve the peace. In terms of work structure and for regular offenses, that's probably good enough. And you could easily do more harm than good by pushing for a more sincere or sorrowful apology. From your best friend, "I'm sorry for saying you were a useless waste of space, because even though it's true I shouldn't have said it" is not likely to be acceptable.

On at least two occasions, I have given an apology which also contained a clarification as to what I didn't apologize for -- i.e., apologizing for manner but not matter. It's quite possible that to the recipient that could come across as insincere; and yet I was sorry for some things, just not for everything they might have liked me to be sorry for. I don't have much confidence that I managed to get across that blend of sincere penitence and firm disagreement in a gracious way.

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## VictorBravo (Mar 17, 2020)

py3ak said:


> "I'm sorry for saying you were a useless waste of space, because even though it's true I shouldn't have said it"



I actually had an apology like that last week. And I couldn't help but respond, "apology accepted. Now go find some useful space to occupy."

I'm still trying to repent of that one....

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## rookie (Mar 17, 2020)

Apologies are a tough one. First, how do you measure the sincerity of the apologizing party. Very often, they feel justified in their actions/words.

I remember years ago, my wife called me at work (she was home on her day off) to tell me she found some adult sites on our tablet. I tried to explain myself and as anyone that got caught offending someone else, I tried to blame it on pop ups, viruses and anything that wasn't my fault.

She then confronted me on the phone and said "I know you know your computers and tablets more than I do, but don't dump that on my ignorance, I know you've been looking at those sites".

Needless to say, I went to my boss, and advised there was a family emergency, that I had to leave. The entire time I was driving home, my prayer was that she wouldn't file divorce. 

When I got home, she was calm as can be on our back deck, drinking a coffee. When I opened my mouth, trying to apologize, her first comment was "I don't blame you, I'm also very, very sorry. If I fulfilled my duties as a wife to you with affection and intimacy more than I currently do, maybe you wouldn't be so tempted". 

My mouth dropped. 

All this to say, when I was apologizing, I'm still wondering if it was as a sincere Christian husband, or if it was because I got caught? I know there was huge repentance and prayer on my side. 

Many, many apologies are due to being caught more than they are of repentance. 

That being said, when it comes to work, family and such, I'm not going to question the sincerity of the one apologizing...you can't force someone to be sincere in their apology.


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## Chad Hutson (Mar 17, 2020)

Interesting timing! I just received a tongue lashing from a member about a telephone conversation we had. The offended party completely misunderstood the tenor, tone, and intent of the conversation, and I was completely caught off guard (blindsided)! I immediately apologized for the misunderstanding and they said they accepted it. What a punch in the gut.


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## Wretched Man (Mar 17, 2020)

I’ve wrestled with this myself. I actually posted on this about a month ago and don’t feel like I really got a good answer.

Luke 17:3 seems to indicate we aren’t obligated to forgive a brother who refuses to repent to you. Yet Jesus also commands us to love our enemies (Matthew 5:4) who obviously wouldn’t be repenting towards you.

Later in Paul’s letters, he instructs us to avoid supposed brothers (1 Corinthians 5:11) who are living in sin.

Shall we forgive enemies regardless of their apology, but withhold forgiveness to our brothers and sisters who refuse to apologize?


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## py3ak (Mar 17, 2020)

Wretched Man said:


> I’ve wrestled with this myself. I actually posted on this about a month ago and don’t feel like I really got a good answer.
> 
> Luke 17:3 seems to indicate we aren’t obligated to forgive a brother who refuses to repent to you. Yet Jesus also commands us to love our enemies (Matthew 5:4) who obviously wouldn’t be repenting towards you.
> 
> ...



Nathan, I would suggest it might be helpful to reframe the issue. When you say "...we aren't obligated to forgive..." that could make it sound like forgiveness is a burden. Now it is often not easy, but that condition of _not forgiving_ someone is also not a very happy place. I think you should forgive everyone who offends you, and be grateful for the mercy that enables you to do so. But many times you wouldn't _express_ that forgiveness unless there were some expression of regret. And releasing someone from an obligation to make it up to you is not the same thing as becoming persuaded that you can trust them again.

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## Wretched Man (Mar 18, 2020)

py3ak said:


> Nathan, I would suggest it might be helpful to reframe the issue. When you say "...we aren't obligated to forgive..." that could make it sound like forgiveness is a burden. Now it is often not easy, but that condition of _not forgiving_ someone is also not a very happy place. I think you should forgive everyone who offends you, and be grateful for the mercy that enables you to do so. But many times you wouldn't _express_ that forgiveness unless there were some expression of regret. And releasing someone from an obligation to make it up to you is not the same thing as becoming persuaded that you can trust them again.


Thanks Ruben. You actually touched on a situation I have in which a family member, without going into details, caused some major trauma that could have severely impacted my wife and children in addition to myself. She offered a weak apology after months of steadfast refusal. I told her I forgive her and no longer hold a grudge (I’m okay with her seeing my children) - but at the same time, I still don’t fully trust her and frankly, I just don’t want to be around her or her husband.

Can I forgive a family member (although frankly I don’t really consider her family anymore) but withhold relations from that person?


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## jwright82 (Mar 18, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> How should one deal with half hearted apologies? Those that say things like, "sorry you were offended," or more recently from an employee (who is under me mind you), "I am sorry about the other day but you still weasel out of things."
> Rarely, do they admit wrongdoing and do not change. Do you accept and move on?


Not my business but they are under you in employment, is there some truth in what they're saying or do they misunderstand the situation? For instance I've never had anyone under me at work question me about why I spend so much time in the office from time to time. But sometimes customers do, I explain that I'm in there for a reason (usually money stuff). But if an employee made a comment about it I would apologize that they felt that way and explain to them what was going on if they still felt that way I wouldn't care.


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## Ed Walsh (Mar 18, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> How should one deal with half hearted apologies? Those that say things like, "sorry you were offended," or more recently from an employee (who is under me mind you), "I am sorry about the other day but you still weasel out of things."
> Rarely, do they admit wrongdoing and do not change. Do you accept and move on?



I have three passages below, that taken together, have helped me often.

*I. Consider how Moses and God responded to Pharaoh's half-hearted and just plain insincere confession of sin.*

Exodus 9:24-35
24 So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail, very grievous, such as there was none like it in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.
25 And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt all that was in the field, both man and beast; and the hail smote every herb of the field, and brake every tree of the field.
26 Only in the land of Goshen, where the children of Israel were, was there no hail.
27 And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the Lord is righteous, and I and my people are wicked.
28 Entreat the Lord (for it is enough) that there be no more mighty thunderings and hail; and I will let you go, and ye shall stay no longer.
29 And Moses said unto him, As soon as I am gone out of the city, I will spread abroad my hands unto the Lord; and the thunder shall cease, neither shall there be any more hail; that thou mayest know how that the earth is the Lord's.
30 But as for thee and thy servants, I know that ye will not yet fear the Lord God.
31 And the flax and the barley was smitten: for the barley was in the ear, and the flax was bolled.
32 But the wheat and the rie were not smitten: for they were not grown up.
33 And Moses went out of the city from Pharaoh, and spread abroad his hands unto the Lord: and the thunders and hail ceased, and the rain was not poured upon the earth.
34 And when Pharaoh saw that the rain and the hail and the thunders were ceased, he sinned yet more, and hardened his heart, he and his servants.
35 And the heart of Pharaoh was hardened, neither would he let the children of Israel go; as the Lord had spoken by Moses.​
*II. Consider also Jesus teaching in Luke.*
To me, the operative word is in verse 4, 'saying,' or 'says.' If someone sins (I take is as the same sin) against you seven times in the same day, you can't help but question the sincerity. But what is Jesus teaching on the subject?

Luke 17:3-4 (ESV)
3 Pay attention to yourselves! If your brother sins, rebuke him, and if he repents, forgive him,
4 and if he sins against you seven times in the day, and turns to you seven times, saying, 'I repent,' you must forgive him."​

*III. Consider what God said to Samuel:*

1 Samuel 16:7 (KJV)
But the Lord said unto Samuel, Look not on his countenance, or on the height of his stature; because I have refused him: for the Lord seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the Lord looketh on the heart.​
The Lord is not rebuking Samuel for his superficial judgments, but rather He is simply stating what is the case.

These three passages have saved me a lot of sorrow and delivered me from questioning what you can nor possibly know. I.e., someone's heart. I learned this while serving as an elder.

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## arapahoepark (Mar 18, 2020)

jwright82 said:


> Not my business but they are under you in employment, is there some truth in what they're saying or do they misunderstand the situation? For instance I've never had anyone under me at work question me about why I spend so much time in the office from time to time. But sometimes customers do, I explain that I'm in there for a reason (usually money stuff). But if an employee made a comment about it I would apologize that they felt that way and explain to them what was going on if they still felt that way I wouldn't care.


I have been thinking about it and I am still not sure what he means. I have never been questioned on my work ethic before, especially at this store. At another inventory a couple of days ago after the apology, I ran circles around him, as usual. I asked him to finish some things I started like twice and I did most of it. Not to gossip but, this particular employee isn't the hardest working and apparently has conniptions, and I was at the brunt of the last one. At times with only two employees, and I can't stray to far, it feels like I got little accomplished by the end of my shift on Saturdays, though it's largely recovery. Though we are open for the customers, it seems like they just get in the way. Lol Other than that I work 3 hours til close Tuesdays and Saturday morning while I sub (since September) and rarely with this employee. It strikes me as complaining because I actually delegate tasks to him while I do what I am supposed to.


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## jwright82 (Mar 18, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> I have been thinking about it and I am still not sure what he means. I have never been questioned on my work ethic before, especially at this store. At another inventory a couple of days ago after the apology, I ran circles around him, as usual. I asked him to finish some things I started like twice and I did most of it. Not to gossip but, this particular employee isn't the hardest working and apparently has conniptions, and I was at the brunt of the last one. At times with only two employees, and I can't stray to far, it feels like I got little accomplished by the end of my shift on Saturdays, though it's largely recovery. Though we are open for the customers, it seems like they just get in the way. Lol Other than that I work 3 hours til close Tuesdays and Saturday morning while I sub (since September) and rarely with this employee. It strikes me as complaining because I actually delegate tasks to him while I do what I am supposed to.


Recovery, do you work in retail? I don't know man if no one else is saying it than I wouldn't worry about it, apology or not. I'm in general weary of apologies without change in behavior, and often all you can is a change in someone's behavior, like not saying that again (regardless what they think). I don't generally care what people think about me unless it affects my paycheck, I am a nice person so people (work or not) generally like me.

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## py3ak (Mar 18, 2020)

Wretched Man said:


> Thanks Ruben. You actually touched on a situation I have in which a family member, without going into details, caused some major trauma that could have severely impacted my wife and children in addition to myself. She offered a weak apology after months of steadfast refusal. I told her I forgive her and no longer hold a grudge (I’m okay with her seeing my children) - but at the same time, I still don’t fully trust her and frankly, I just don’t want to be around her or her husband.
> 
> Can I forgive a family member (although frankly I don’t really consider her family anymore) but withhold relations from that person?



That's a complicated situation, and it's hard to say too many specifics without knowing more. But maybe if you consider a few questions you could get some additional light for yourself (i.e., I am not asking you to answer on the thread, just suggesting something you might think about). 

Is your considering her non-family and desire not to see her due to ongoing resentment or to ongoing lack of trust? Resentment is your problem to take to the Lord; a desire to protect your family, on the other hand, may be entirely appropriate. I have never apologized for, and never regretted, instructing an apostate acquaintance not to communicate with my wife.

Would a quicker or more agonized apology have made a difference? If so, it may be that your struggle is more with the slight to your dignity than with the risk she represents.

Is excluding her a way to punish her? In that case, your own expression of forgiveness may not have reflected a genuine release of the offense on your part, and you need grace from the Lord to forgive _from the heart _(Matt. 18:35).

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## Edward (Mar 18, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> Do you accept and move on?



If the person was under my supervision, I'd move on to making a note to address it in their next performance appraisal. 

As for a response, an appropriate one might be "I'll accept your apology with the sincerity with which it is offered."

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## arapahoepark (Mar 18, 2020)

jwright82 said:


> Recovery, do you work in retail? I don't know man if no one else is saying it than I wouldn't worry about it, apology or not. I'm in general weary of apologies without change in behavior, and often all you can is a change in someone's behavior, like not saying that again (regardless what they think). I don't generally care what people think about me unless it affects my paycheck, I am a nice person so people (work or not) generally like me.


Yes. Only a couple of days a weeks. It is a fall back. Yeah true. I shouldn't worry. It kept bugging me.


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## Wretched Man (Mar 19, 2020)

py3ak said:


> That's a complicated situation, and it's hard to say too many specifics without knowing more. But maybe if you consider a few questions you could get some additional light for yourself (e.g., I am not asking you to answer on the thread, just suggesting something you might think about).
> 
> Is your considering her non-family and desire not to see her due to ongoing resentment or to ongoing lack of trust? Resentment is your problem to take to the Lord; a desire to protect your family, on the other hand, may be entirely appropriate. I have never apologized for, and never regretted, instructing an apostate acquaintance not to communicate with my wife.
> 
> ...


Those are good questions and I must admit I probably cannot answer them rightly. Thank you for the helpful advice.

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## jwright82 (Mar 19, 2020)

arapahoepark said:


> Yes. Only a couple of days a weeks. It is a fall back. Yeah true. I shouldn't worry. It kept bugging me.


A fall back? Man retails my career. Since this person is under you remind them who's boss. You don't need to be their friend you need to get a job done. I'm work friends with people under me but they respect me, so they do what I say. If I had a problem with them I could always write them up. Write him up to make a paper trail that this is on ongoing problem. I hate to sound cold but his half hearted apologies aren't going to help you get the job done. Who cares, convey that to him that his actions are affecting work and you can't allow behavior that affects making money for the business. He can shape up or ship out.

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## Wretched Man (Mar 19, 2020)

jwright82 said:


> A fall back? Man retails my career. Since this person is under you remind them who's boss. You don't need to be their friend you need to get a job done. I'm work friends with people under me but they respect me, so they do what I say. If I had a problem with them I could always write them up. Write him up to make a paper trail that this is on ongoing problem. I hate to sound cold but his half hearted apologies aren't going to help you get the job done. Who cares, convey that to him that his actions are affecting work and you can't allow behavior that affects making money for the business. He can shape up or ship out.


I don’t necessarily disagree in principle. But you need to be careful with that mindset in today’s society of entitlement and extreme HR influence.

I’ve never been good with this, but generally what I attempt to do is pull them aside, provide my concerns, what I perceive, and specific examples. Then I ask them to provide their context. “I’m sensing some friction here and would like to address it with you. Recently, I’ve noticed you didn't.... I’d like to understand your situation a little better. Perhaps there are things I am unaware of or could work on to improve things. Please tell me a little bit what’s going on.”

*This doesn’t mean you just let them make up a bunch of excuses. Hopefully they’ll realize they’re in error and appreciate your respectful approach. Conversely if you lay into them, they will inherently resent you and tensions will likely increase.

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## RobertPGH1981 (Mar 19, 2020)

Accept and move on and if it continues make it reflect in their performance review. IF it wasn't a report I would just move on but if it continues I would start to distance myself from them. Depends on the offense really

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## ZackF (Mar 21, 2020)

This a topic I've given much thought over the years. Apologies come up at work, in marriage, at church and in other contexts. I'll go ahead and spill a few thoughts.

Early in our marriage my wife specialized in the apology and then justification. "Honey I am sorry that I _____. It is just that ____." Sadly I responded with many eye rolls. Though her apologies were 'half-hearted' as you said my apologies were largely non-existent. Until there was a long period quiet, plain looks or tears I didn't understand that a conversation was needed that would then let me know I need to apologize. After all of that, I often issued my own apology and then justification. Eliminating that justification piece helped our relationship tremendously. We learned to just apologize and ask for forgiveness. If we want to declare a grievance we do and_ then_ apologize. For example, "I was angry a what you said. That's no reason for snapping. That was totally out of line. Please forgive me."

I've found when I apologize to colleagues or even my boss without excuse the consequences of the failure are much less. The relationships with rare exception have been improved. My boss trusts that if I know I'm wrong I'll admit it and own up to it. In fact as time goes on I've encountered less face saving mealy mouthed stuff In a world of spin and bs that goes a long ways.

When I encounter the apology/justification combo at work or elsewhere, I usually ask about the justification. Lord willing when I'm behaving, a little empathy goes a long way and softens people. "I am sorry Zack I totally forgot about that email, it is just that I'm swamped." A reply like, "Whoa! Sounds intense. What's going on?" A brief conversation ensues and ends with a much more sincere sounding apology and a recommitment.

A different but related item to the half-hearted apology is the demanded apology. "I demand an apology!" It is most dramatic when said with a crisp English accent. I don't _think_ I've ever "demanded" an apology. It serves no purpose. If one states a grievance against another and it does not trigger an apology then I assume there is no contrition. I see demanding apologies more as grandstanding than attempts at reconciliation.

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## py3ak (Mar 21, 2020)

ZackF said:


> A different but related item to the half-hearted apology is the demanded apology. "I demand an apology!" It is most dramatic when said with a crisp English accent. I don't _think_ I've ever "demanded" an apology. It serves no purpose. If one states a grievance against another and it does not trigger an apology then I assume there is no contrition. I see demanding apologies more as grandstanding than attempts at reconciliation.



It works in an honor/shame culture. The whole approach to dueling, for instance. You could apologize and avoid a duel; you could fight and avoid an apology. In inconclusive duels, e.g., where one person missed and the other person's pistol misfired, honor was satisfied and yet neither person changed their position. But it was now possible to let the matter go without any injury to honor. However, in our own time when there is no acknowledged code of honor, with public definitions of what is dishonoring and how that can be repaired, "demanding satisfaction" is perhaps more likely to make the one demanding seem ridiculous.

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## ZackF (Mar 21, 2020)

py3ak said:


> It works in an honor/shame culture. The whole approach to dueling, for instance. You could apologize and avoid a duel; you could fight and avoid an apology. In inconclusive duels, e.g., where one person missed and the other person's pistol misfired, honor was satisfied and yet neither person changed their position. But it was now possible to let the matter go without any injury to honor. However, in our own time when there is no acknowledged code of honor, with public definitions of what is dishonoring and how that can be repaired, "demanding satisfaction" is perhaps more likely to make the one demanding seem ridiculous.


I had considered Asian cultures when writing this but had forgotten more recent Western traditions. That’s sad considering my degree.


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## VictorBravo (Mar 22, 2020)

py3ak said:


> "demanding satisfaction" is perhaps more likely to make the one demanding seem ridiculous.



Indeed. I suppose an effective response to one demanding an apology would be, "I can't imagine anyone more deserving...apology granted."

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## jwright82 (Mar 22, 2020)

Wretched Man said:


> I don’t necessarily disagree in principle. But you need to be careful with that mindset in today’s society of entitlement and extreme HR influence.
> 
> I’ve never been good with this, but generally what I attempt to do is pull them aside, provide my concerns, what I perceive, and specific examples. Then I ask them to provide their context. “I’m sensing some friction here and would like to address it with you. Recently, I’ve noticed you didn't.... I’d like to understand your situation a little better. Perhaps there are things I am unaware of or could work on to improve things. Please tell me a little bit what’s going on.”
> 
> *This doesn’t mean you just let them make up a bunch of excuses. Hopefully they’ll realize they’re in error and appreciate your respectful approach. Conversely if you lay into them, they will inherently resent you and tensions will likely increase.


Well I don't mean be "mean" perhaps I'm just good at conveying those emotions in a respectful way. I go to work with that attitude done in a respectful way and I don't have problems. Corporate doesn't care because I get the job done. I completely agree pull them asside in private to talk, never in front of people, but if the problem persists than write them up. I've only ever had one problem with a girl and she got written up for it, it helped that customers complained. I was political about it but thankfully it worked itself out, and she did get written up for it.


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## Wretched Man (Mar 22, 2020)

jwright82 said:


> Well I don't mean be "mean" perhaps I'm just good at conveying those emotions in a respectful way. I go to work with that attitude done in a respectful way and I don't have problems. Corporate doesn't care because I get the job done. I completely agree pull them asside in private to talk, never in front of people, but if the problem persists than write them up. I've only ever had one problem with a girl and she got written up for it, it helped that customers complained. I was political about it but thankfully it worked itself out, and she did get written up for it.


I’ve learned through painful experience there are a lot of intangible qualities and tact required to properly handle confrontational situations. Perhaps you possess these qualities to effectively navigate through leadership challenges; I and many others do not. There are also many dynamics (upper leadership, environment, culture, HR or political influence, etc.) that impact or tolerate what can be done as a leader. I would simply discourage anyone to approach leadership with a simplistic or categorical approach, especially when handling discipline or confrontation.


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## jwright82 (Mar 22, 2020)

Wretched Man said:


> I’ve learned through painful experience there are a lot of intangible qualities and tact required to properly handle confrontational situations. Perhaps you possess these qualities to effectively navigate through leadership challenges; I and many others do not. There are also many dynamics (upper leadership, environment, culture, HR or political influence, etc.) that impact or tolerate what can be done as a leader. I would simply discourage anyone to approach leadership with a simplistic or categorical approach, especially when handling discipline or confrontation.


True enough. I've learned mostly through mistakes. I don't think it's simplistic though because it comes natural to me doesn't mean it comes natural to everyone. I have a strong personality but I know how to use it for everyone's benefit, most people like me. I'm funny, charming, and just the right amount of humility to taper it off. I'm also very conscious of others and their body language as well as conscious of myself. I'm just the right amount of mixture to make it work sometimes. But caring about others is most important. Knowing when to be strong and when to be caring helps out. But being strong in desire to get the job done and knowing when to be caring helps a lot. That's probably why I have a talent for debating.

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