# Andy Stanley Talks Calvinism



## Ryan&Amber2013 (Jan 11, 2019)

I thought this was interesting. What are your thoughts?
Around 20 minutes in is really interesting when he addresses how we view being "deep" with Christianity.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jan 11, 2019)

I wouldn’t listen to Andy Stanley telling me how to cook pasta much less telling me about theology.

Reactions: Like 3 | Amen 1 | Funny 2


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## arapahoepark (Jan 11, 2019)

James white did a two part series reviewing it. I have not heard it in its entirety yet but the snippets I have heard show the spirit of the age. Shallow. Deliberately ignorant. There are so many more words out there.


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## Tom Hart (Jan 12, 2019)

Andy Stanley is sad that the Southern Baptists have become so Calvinistic.

But he has hope that things will get better, since "God is in control."

Reactions: Like 2 | Funny 5


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jan 12, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> But he has hope that things will get better, since "God is in control."


Lex orandi, lex credenda


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## Taylor (Jan 12, 2019)

And Stanley needs to grasp _Christianity_ before he even can begin to deal with it's more particular areas. Stanley blasphemes God by denying the binding nature of the Old Testament _in it's very entirety_. Until and only until he repents of this, he is a false teacher, a wolf, and, in my personal assessment, an infidel.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 12, 2019)

It's interesting to read Turretin's Institutes of Elenctic Theology as he puts the motivation of Arminius and his followers trying to get to the goodness or fairness of God. That seems like a perennial motivation among Christians who try to get around Scripture's teaching about the nature of God, man, sin, etc.

Theologians in the past made pretty sophisticated systems trying to tie it all together and, in the process, they compromised many important doctrines but the modern proponents like Stanley are terribly shallow.

I listen to the Unbelievable Radio program on a weekly basis. Thankfully I'm running while listening to it because I'm too out of breath to get too worked up but Stanly is pretty consistent with what I'm seeing in Evangelicals these days. The most important thing is the "jourrney" for many. I think they genuinently conceive of faith as not supernatural and many are quite willing to jettison just about any doctrine as long as Jesus is acceptable to the person to whom they are appealing.

Stanley doesn't just have a problem with God's decree. I don't even know if he's sophisticated enough or doesn't really care whether he's building opennness in God or sees God in a process theology schema. The most important thing is to rescue Christians from having to defend anything in Christianity that the world disapproves of.

The Old Testament is filled with "problematic" passages. Solution: borrow the old liberal trope that this is primarily the writings of a primitive people who project their ideas on God.

The Christianity they accept is a sort of "I don't know about anything for sure except that the nature of God is found in Jesus". Mind you it's not the Jesus of the Scriptures because whatever Christ or Paul write that they don't like is shaved off into a "whatever I think is good, that's what Jesus reveals of God" kind of theology.

Last week on Unbelievable is a good example of the mindset: an egalitarian female was arguing for her point but every time the complimentarian Pastor quoted Scripture she chalked it up to Paul or Peter being patriarchal in their views. The important thing, again, is how theology comports with how we conceive love and God and Christ will fit into that paradigm.

Thus, don't look too hard for any kind of exegetical or theological consistency. There is none. The primary truth is whatever "loving people" looks like in their eyes is the theological system and everything in Scripture and theology will bow to it.

Reactions: Like 5


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## Taylor (Jan 13, 2019)

Semper Fidelis said:


> The most important thing is to rescue Christians from having to defend anything in Christianity that the world disapproves of.



This here is the core of it, I believe. There is an _a priori_ commitment to define Christianity according to and within the limits of one’s personal sensibilities. And because the commitment is _a priori_, any information that does not fit the scheme can be dismissed out of hand without any further consideration.

Reactions: Like 1


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## A.Joseph (Jan 13, 2019)

That brought me to this video from Dr.Flowers....




Not sure how he would respond to many of his own criticisms using his own theological lens/logic, whatever his form of ‘traditionalism’ even means....?
I mean, just based on human experience it is easy to tell that relatively few truly believe or are in a position to do so..... this must speak to the sovereignty of God..... If they want to twist that to mean that God is the primary cause of evil, or the like, that is on them.....

I’m not sure how we are not wholly God-dependent creatures no matter what ‘ism’ we lay claim


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## Stephen L Smith (Jan 13, 2019)

If my understanding of things is correct, Andy grew up in an Arminian and Young Earth Creationist home. Ken Ham has praised the Young Earth Creationist views of his Father.

Although a Young Earth Creationist myself, it seems to me this view does not in itself give a solid bulwark agaist theological decline. I think Calvinist theology gives a better bulwark. 

If only Ken Ham understood this.

Reactions: Like 1


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## bookslover (Jan 13, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> And Stanley needs to grasp _Christianity_ before he even can begin to deal with it's more particular areas. Stanley blasphemes God by denying the binding nature of the Old Testament _in it's very entirety_. Until and only until he repents of this, he is a false teacher, a wolf, and, in my personal assessment, an infidel.



Well, the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament are fulfilled in Christ, and the civil laws are also no longer binding (except in their general equity) as Old Testament Israel no longer exists.


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## Taylor (Jan 13, 2019)

bookslover said:


> Well, the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament are fulfilled in Christ, and the civil laws are also no longer binding (except in their general equity) as Old Testament Israel no longer exists.



Of course. But that is not all Stanley is advocating. To quote the article I cited, “Jesus issued his new commandment as a _replacement_ for everything in the existing list. Including the big ten. Just as his new covenant replaced the old covenant, _Jesus’ new commandment replaced all the old commandments_.” Therefore, he concludes, “*Participants in the new covenant (that’s Christians) are not required to obey any of the commandments found in the first part of their Bibles.*”


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## jw (Jan 13, 2019)

Who?

Reactions: Like 1


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## bookslover (Jan 14, 2019)

Joshua said:


> Who?



Andy Stanley, son of Baptist pastor Charles Stanley. I feel sorry for his dad. Charles didn't teach sonny-boy the things he's now spouting.


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## Herald (Jan 15, 2019)

Bill The Baptist said:


> I wouldn’t listen to Andy Stanley telling me how to cook pasta much less telling me about theology.


Now, Bill, he may have some great pasta recipes. Let's not throw the tortellini out with the bathwater.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 2


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## Herald (Jan 15, 2019)

A.Joseph said:


> That brought me to this video from Dr.Flowers....
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I've had my run-ins with Flowers on another venue. All I can say is, "broken record much?"


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## Tom Hart (Jan 15, 2019)

Herald said:


> Now, Bill, he may have some great pasta recipes. Let's not throw the tortellini out with the bathwater.



I really hope you don't cook pasta using bathwater.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Taylor (Jan 15, 2019)

Herald said:


> I've had my run-ins with Flowers on another venue. All I can say is, "broken record much?"



Seriously. It’s _literally_ all he does. I worry about him, honestly. Knowing my own heart, when I was as zealous for attacking the “other side” as he was, I literally went to bed at night and fell asleep thinking about how I can clobber the Arminians the next day. I don’t know _his_ heart, but I personally harbored a lot of hatred for Arminians back when I was in the cage he is currently in. Defeating the Arminians is all I thought about all the time, to the exclusion of almost everything more important.


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## jw (Jan 15, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> It’s _literally_ all he does.


_Literally_. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.

Reactions: Like 1 | Funny 1


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## ZackF (Jan 15, 2019)

bookslover said:


> Andy Stanley, son of Baptist pastor Charles Stanley. I feel sorry for his dad. Charles didn't teach sonny-boy the things he's now spouting.


I’ll play armchair shrink. The claims of Calvinism trouble him personally. Maybe he encounters this pastorally from his members or he is wrestling with the doctrines of grace in his own heart. Why doesn’t the younger Stanley have a problem with open theism, charismatic lunacy, or anything else? When put in the broader evangelical context, Calvinistic churches are smaller than Arminian. Does mega-church scene have nothing to be criticized? Pray for him.


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## Taylor (Jan 15, 2019)

Joshua said:


> _Literally_. You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means.



Ugh, you’re being so literal right now. Literally.

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Herald (Jan 15, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> Seriously. It’s _literally_ all he does. I worry about him, honestly. Knowing my own heart, when I was as zealous for attacking the “other side” as he was, I literally went to bed at night and fell asleep thinking about how I can clobber the Arminians the next day. I don’t know _his_ heart, but I personally harbored a lot of hatred for Arminians back when I was in the cage he is currently in. Defeating the Arminians is all I thought about all the time, to the exclusion of almost everything more important.



Flowers and I conversed online more than a few times. The hardest part was finding common ground on which to have a fruitful discussion. It was nigh impossible to get past the definition of terms. In my humble opinion he fancies himself to be a self-appointed authority. I think he is getting more attention than he deserves.

Reactions: Amen 1


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## Stephen L Smith (Jan 16, 2019)

Taylor Sexton said:


> _literally_





Joshua said:


> _Literally_


Well the 'Prince' of Arminians, David Cloud, takes many passages literally in his sermon that Calvinism is the 'enemy'. Rev 22:17 clearly says "And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely." After all 'whosoever will' should be taken literally right? I did wonder how many on the PB would remain Calvinists after hearing Mr Cloud take verses of scripture 'literally'. In case you were wondering, I was being factitious


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