# Alcohol, college partying, etc.



## pianoman (Jun 27, 2011)

So since I have been in college, I have encountered some different views on Christians and partying,etc. Some say a christian can go to a college party and be alright as long as they do not drink, etc. But my question is what is the purpose of going if you are not witnessing? Also, how does this work with light not walking with darkness, and is it alright for a christian to go? Any thoughts? Thanks.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 27, 2011)

If I were in your situation, I would attend the party. If I start to realize that these parties are getting out of hand, I would leave.

Granted I do not think it is sinful to consume alcohol so my answer may not fit real well with you.

You cannot go through life avoiding the lost. I don't think we should be avoiding them either.


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## pianoman (Jun 27, 2011)

Thanks. No I don't believe it is sinful either to consume alcohol so agreed.


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## au5t1n (Jun 27, 2011)

In my opinion, comparing the liberty of the believer to consume alcohol with liberty to participate in the college party scene is comparing apples to oranges. If the latter can be justified, it will have to be by some other argument.


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## Zach (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm a student at Penn State (we were given the title of "Number One Party School" a few years back and ever since have been working to hold on to it) and myself and almost all my Christian friends avoid the party scene entirely. All of my friends who have gone to parties have come back saying that they personally felt tempted to drink. I don't see the fruitfulness in going to the party scene, or even that there is "no harm" in going. I think it is a dangerous area of temptation for believers, especially those of us who are underaged. I never went to one party, but I also never felt like I was avoiding the lost. I encountered the lost every day and got to engage them and even form good friendships and have a few Gospel conversations. When they drank on the floor I didn't avoid them or anything (in fact, I had one of the most fruitful conversations on an occasion where a floormate of mine was drinking), but that's totally different story from actually going out into the party scene. 

If you feel the desire to reach out to the lost in the party scene I would strongly recommend only going with the backing of a few committed brothers in Christ to keep you accountable. Do we have the freedom to go and enjoy the non-sinful elements of the party scene? Yes. Is it wise? I would say no.


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## Jack K (Jun 27, 2011)

Do the parties tempt you to sin more strongly than you are otherwise tempted when with friends? If so, you may be wise to avoid them. Or if your attendance causes others to sin or somehow brings shame upon the name of Christ, that's a reason to stay away. And those situations, I'd guess, are pretty likely to be in play. But if they aren't, I think you are free to attend parties (and behave as a Christian while you're there).

The freedom to do so doesn't always make it a wise move, though.

On the plus side, it's good and Christ-like just to be a fun-loving guy who enjoys the company of others. You don't always have to have an agenda to witness to someone every time you see them socially. If you love others, you _will_ tell them about Christ but much of the time you'll also just get to know them and be with them. That's being friendly, and it's a good thing.

On the negative side, I think we all realize there are some college party cultures that pretty much exisit only to glorify sin. It's hard for a Christian to attend those parties just to have a good time socially, because a "good time" at such parties is all about sinful behavior. When I was in college, I avoided that kind of party but tried to attend some where it seemed possible to truly take part and still avoid sinful behavior, because it's important to try to enjoy other people and not be snobby. 

Deciding is not always easy. Much depends on the particular party culture and the particular believer. If there are other strong believers on campus who know you and know the other partiers, talking it over with them would probably be helpful.


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## Fly Caster (Jun 27, 2011)

Agree that issues with the college party scene are much more than a question of the lawful, moderate use of alcohol.

Walk circumspectly.


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## Tripel (Jun 27, 2011)

As with most anything, it depends. 
It depends on the nature of the party, it depends on the motive of the person attending, and it depends on the person's susceptibility to temptation.

College parties are not, by definition, "bad". Even when there's excessive drinking going on, it's not necessarily wrong to attend. If it's having a negative affect on you, then you should not be there. I went to my fair share of parties in college (and threw several myself). I was able to have a good time with my friends even if others in attendance were going too far. It's similar to going to a bar--there's no inherent wrong in going to a bar for drinks with friends even though others in the bar may be drinking too much.


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## Sarah (Jun 27, 2011)

If you are tempted to get drunk, drink underage, act sexually provocative, dance inappropriately, etc, don't go.

If you won't be tempted, just use your judgment, but don't be afraid to go have a good time without the opportunity to talk about the gospel. You may be witnessing to them just by your appropriate behavior and abstinance from alcohol. Your friends will notice that you aren't drunk like they are and may ask you about it later, but even if they don't, you will have had a good time with friends, which is a good thing.

When I was in college, my group of friends (my track teammates), had a lot of house parties. Some of them were lots of fun, and I had a good time with my friends. Most were just not fun for me, as they seemed to be just an occasion to get drunk and be provocative. I got pretty sick of the party scene sometimes and had to balance going and being disgusted with parties against staying home and being the boring friend as all my housemates left for a party. There are different types of parties, and if it looks like alcohol is just one detail in an otherwise fun-filled night with friends, I think it is fine to go. If drunkenness is the focus of the night, you probably won't have any fun anyway and won't want to go.

If you are of legal drinking age, you may be wrestling with whether or not you should totally abstain from alcohol at these parties. I know I did. I ended up deciding it was fine to drink if I wanted to because I was not tempted to go on and have too much and because the parties I went to were full of my friends who knew me and knew that I wasn't drinking more than one drink. If going to a party full of strangers or mere acquaintances (which I would avoid anyway), I would not drink. My thinking was that people who don't know my character might see me with a drink and assume I was on my way to drunkenness. Now that I think about it, though, I don't know that it mattered much because I would usually have something non-alcoholic, like coke or water, and that would be in the same red plastic cup as everyone else's drinks, so I'm not sure if they would have known I wasn't drinking alcohol.


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## Scott1 (Jun 27, 2011)

Generally, the principle will be to abstain for the many biblical reasons and principles stated- avoiding temptation, the appearance of evil, the purpose leads to trouble, etc.

Indiscretion and inability to handle alcohol sometimes go with youth, pride prevents admitting it. 

Remember, for the ungodly, this is what the blindness of sin tells them life is all about- that this is as good as it gets (drunkeness, debauchery, etc.). It's all false, and the end result for the partaker who drunk drives, becomes an alcoholic, fornicates and gets a disease, or gets in a fight is misery, regret and an inability to bond with people in a normal way. 

There may be particular circumstances and occasions exceptions, you may even through lack of foresight find yourself in this kind of situation. If you start to feel uncomfortable, leave. If you are feeling trapped, pray to God to get you out, now.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jun 27, 2011)

It is a fine balance to play. On one hand you can't shun them for being non-Believers but you also can't spend all your time with them. While there is nothing wrong with enjoying being with them and enjoying a drink; I think that if the whole point of the "party" is to get drunk and lewd then I would avoid. I have a non beliving friend I eat dinner and hang out with often. I have no problem going to his house for dinner. If he invited me over for a kegger I would also have no problem....saying no. The intent is drunkenness and I don't want to be a part of that but I dont wan't him to think that Christians are all boring monks who never have social lives outside of church.


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## rookie (Jun 27, 2011)

I have a question about this situation, 

If you go somewhere, where they are doing drugs, prostitution and you walk out of there, as a christian, and you didn't partake in the activities, but the people walking the streets see you come out of that building....can you now convince them you are a christian? Or in a bar where there is much drinking?

I am sorry, but though, all things are permitted, not all things are profitable, 1 Cor 10:23. 

Personally, I would avoid the parties and all those activities, since if you need those to fill in your time and satisfy your needs, I question your salvation. I can assure you that though we are not under the law, doesn't mean we have the right to partake in all activities.

Even if you are strong as a christian and can resist, at a party, no doubt there are things that will cause you to fall, either hearing things, or seeing them. And Christ did say that if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out.

I can't see how any party, (not many don't involve alcohol, drugs, smoking and who knows what else, especially in college) could be a great place for a Christian.

I don't want to be harsh, but, this could seriously hurt your christian testimony, then how do you witness the true gospel to them "Your sin will bring you to hell", they will turn around and say "you were there with us, and you're better than we are"?

It's all perception.

I would personally avoid it, that way, you have a better chance of preaching to them, and be blameless when you do.


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## pianoman (Jun 27, 2011)

yes, that is my train of thought

---------- Post added at 01:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 PM ----------




rookie said:


> I have a question about this situation,
> 
> If you go somewhere, where they are doing drugs, prostitution and you walk out of there, as a christian, and you didn't partake in the activities, but the people walking the streets see you come out of that building....can you now convince them you are a christian? Or in a bar where there is much drinking?
> 
> ...





Yes, this is my train of thought


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## Tripel (Jun 27, 2011)

rookie said:


> If you go somewhere, where they are doing drugs, prostitution and you walk out of there, as a christian, and you didn't partake in the activities, but the people walking the streets see you come out of that building....can you now convince them you are a christian?



Drugs and prostitution are illegal, so that's a very different situation.



> Or in a bar where there is much drinking?



If a person sees me coming out of a bar and thinks poorly of me, that is their problem. That's not to say that I don't care what they think, but rather to say that I have limited control over someone's poorly constructed basis of right and wrong.



> I am sorry, but though, all things are permitted, not all things are profitable, 1 Cor 10:23.



Very true. We DO need to keep this mind when determining the appropriateness of a situation. But that DOESN'T mean that we must avoid any and every instance where there is some gray area.



> Personally, I would avoid the parties and all those activities, since *if you need those to fill in your time and satisfy your needs*, I question your salvation. I can assure you that though we are not under the law, doesn't mean we have the right to partake in all activities.



You're creating a different situation here. Who said anything about such parties satisfying our needs??? Clearly, anybody with those kinds of needs has much bigger problems.



> Even if you are strong as a christian and can resist, at a party, *no doubt there are things that will cause you to fall*, either hearing things, or seeing them. And Christ did say that if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out.



No doubt? Really???
You talk about hearing and seeing things. I'm wondering to what you are referring that would no doubt cause someone to fall. I can understand if the party is rampant with sex, and clothes are coming off left and right, but I can't say I have much experience with those types of parties. Nor would I want to. So what things that you hear or see at a party would cause one to sin?



> I can't see how any party, (not many don't involve alcohol, drugs, smoking and who knows what else, especially in college) could be a great place for a Christian.



I've been to lots of parties, but none where drugs were visible. Again, if it's a party where drugs are involved, the illegality of the situation should be enough for the Christian to avoid it. As for alcohol and and smoking, those are not inherently sinful. Rather, alcohol and tobacco are very good when properly used.



> I don't want to be harsh, but, this could seriously hurt your christian testimony, then how do you witness the true gospel to them "Your sin will bring you to hell", they will turn around and say "you were there with us, and you're better than we are"?



I don't even know where to start with this. 




> It's all perception.
> 
> I would personally avoid it, that way, you have a better chance of preaching to them, and be blameless when you do.



I'm not blameless, nor do I claim to be when explaining to gospel. I'm sinful. But again, I think you are calling things sin which are not sin. 
Drinking is not sin. And if an unbeliever thinks I'm a hypocrite because I drink, it provides a wonderful opportunity for me to explain the freedom we have in Christ. The gospel is powerful precisely because it is about grace.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 27, 2011)

> If you go somewhere, where they are doing drugs, prostitution and you walk out of there, as a christian, and you didn't partake in the activities, but the people walking the streets see you come out of that building....can you now convince them you are a christian? Or in a bar where there is much drinking?



Going to a party and going to a brothel are completely different.

Also I have spent many wonderful evenings in bars, sport bars, pool halls, friend's house, and the occasional club where drinking occurs. No one has ever questioned the validity of my salvation because of these evenings. The only Christian witness I have hurt is with my family who thinks it is sinful to drink. Because I go to these places, I have actually had ministering opportunities come up.


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## Zach (Jun 27, 2011)

I think the main theme that's been coming across in our responses is of what nature is the party we're going to. As Boliver correctly points out, going to a party and a brothel are two different things. I have many Christian friends who enjoy going to a bar and having a few drinks with friends and when I turn 21 will probably enjoy going with them. Smaller parties among friends where there will be drinking is also not a problem. But, the original post was about the college "party scene". I don't know how it's done elsewhere, but the "party scene" at Penn State is centered on drunkenness and is the kind of place a Christian would feel tempted to engage in sin and should avoid.


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## Pergamum (Jun 27, 2011)

Witnessing to drunk people is not really effective. 

I see no good reason why it would be beneficial to go. 

To socialize? Are those the kind of people you want to socialize with? To witness? See above. To find a girlfriend? Unwise move. To fit in? Do you really esteem the opinions of the party crowd?

There is usually course talk and lewd dress and often lewd actions and drunkenness at these parties.

A "friendly get together" is much different than what many college parties turn out to be. Drinking is fine in moderation of course, but how much moderation do you really see in college. Also, drinking is fine as one is enjoying a meal or engaging in other activities (except driving of course), but many college parties have drinking as their MAIN activity, an unwise and unhealthy focus.


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## TimV (Jun 27, 2011)

Nice, Sarah and Perg.


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## Skyler (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm simply particular about the kind of company I keep. I have high goals for my life and therefore I have to constantly subject my hobbies, companions, and other influences to intense scrutiny to see if they are helping me to achieve those goals or not. If not, they have to go.


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## rookie (Jun 27, 2011)

I admit the examples I used were a little strong. But the key that I was trying to put forward, is as a Christian, there are some activities that we shouldn't even take part in. Simply because our flesh is so weak. 
Jesus was able to go to many of these places, because He was God, He could NOT stumble. I know for myself, there are many, many places I don't go, simply because of the atmosphere. 

If I don't feel comfortable bringing a 4-8 yr old, I don't go.

My biggest fear, is where could that party lead. They all start innocent, but where are the intentions of the ones that started it.


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## Notthemama1984 (Jun 27, 2011)

> If I don't feel comfortable bringing a 4-8 yr old, I don't go.



I wouldn't take a child to a sports bar, but I see nothing wrong with going to watch the game.


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## FenderPriest (Jun 27, 2011)

Personally, I was generally in the library when people were partying.... And don't think that's because I was wicked bookish... probably had something to do withe the lack of "cool factor", which is still a plague on me! In retrospect, I think I might have pursues some social events with co-students in college, if only to have the opportunity to get to know them and care for their well being. But then again, I did really enjoy my times in the library.


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## Jack K (Jun 28, 2011)

FenderPriest said:


> Personally, I was generally in the library when people were partying.... And don't think that's because I was wicked bookish... probably had something to do withe the lack of "cool factor", which is still a plague on me!



Ah, yes. That was me, too. The most comfortable chairs in the library were always available on Friday evenings.

As I made more friends during my college years, though, I usually spent my Friday nights with Christian students I knew, or at church events, or even with unbelievers on my dorm floor who weren't into the drinking/sex scene and preferred to play cards or something. The idea that "everyone" in college is into the party scene simply isn't true if you look around.


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## Andres (Jun 28, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> Witnessing to drunk people is not really effective.
> 
> I see no good reason why it would be beneficial to go.
> 
> ...



This.


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## Theoretical (Jun 28, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> Witnessing to drunk people is not really effective.
> 
> I see no good reason why it would be beneficial to go.
> 
> ...



Agreed, I tried this strategy a bit during my first semester of law school, of trying to be the guy that didn't get drunk, had meaningful conversations, and still was human. Reality check, it just made me a Pharisee for being the guy that didn't drunk, left early, talked about not getting drunk, frowned on what was going on...and still found my heart really coarsened a lot being around those people. I could have had a lot more social ties and connections had I stuck around, but especially given how little week-to-week spiritual support structure I had at the time, it was a bad setting I had to stop being around. 

I spent some time around various folks in the class in non-drunk settings (studies, chat before class, and the like) and was much more able to be salt and light there than simply being some stuck-up guy that doesn't get drunk and leaves when everyone starts getting smashed.

The time to reach out to someone is when they're sober. We wouldn't seriously consider walking into a college dorm room and start evangelizing to a couple busily "hooking up." There'd be 0 point and it'd be a bad influence on us. Evangelizing folks whose purpose at being at the party or bar is to get drunk really isn't all that productive. But you certainly can make a point to talk to them and reach out to them during sober periods. Usually the excesses of the drunk-party crowd are symptomatic of major regrets, sorrows, shames, and other things that make them ripe for the Gospel during sobriety. Plenty won't listen at all and are happy to stay in it, but these sorts of excesses are often a mask for misery.

Providing an attractive alternative venue where people can enjoy each other's company without loading it down with intoxication or immorality can itself be a good influence. Board game nights, weekend potlucks, dinner parties, and the like can all be things that both show that you're different but also not show that you're simply stodgy _just because_ but stodgy on these things_ because they matter. _Regarding alcohol, either serving none of it at all or serving it very moderately also sends important signals. An important thing too is to *let actions speak louder than words *for these sorts of events. It's so incredibly easy to be a Pharisaical host ("oh those bad people partying tonight"), and your nonbelieving guests will smell it a mile away.


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## Tripel (Jun 28, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> I see no good reason why it would be beneficial to go.
> 
> To socialize? Are those the kind of people you want to socialize with? To witness? See above. To find a girlfriend? Unwise move. To fit in? Do you really esteem the opinions of the party crowd?
> 
> There is usually course talk and lewd dress and often lewd actions and drunkenness at these parties.



There could be several good reasons to attend. Yes, one is to socialize. If I have several friends who are going to be at a certain party, it's reasonable for me to go and hang out with them. Another reason might be live music. A lot of college parties (especially frat parties) will have a band performing, so it is often the case people go to hear that band. 

Look, if what we're talking about are parties where everyone in attendance is drunk and there are lewd acts being performed left and right then OF COURSE there is no good reason to be there. But that is not an accurate description of all college parties. As I said before, I went to a lot, but never have I experienced anything on that level. 
College parties are not, by definition, what we see portrayed in the movies and on TV. Yes, those do exist, but in my experience that is not typical.


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## Theoretical (Jun 28, 2011)

Tripel said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > I see no good reason why it would be beneficial to go.
> ...



This is also an important point as well. College gatherings aren't inherently parties in the negative sense. Generally who the host is and how the event's described speak volumes about what's actually going to happen at that event. And there are plenty of unbelievers, even outright non-religious ones, who don't throw orgies or frat parties that are perfectly reasonable gatherings.


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## pianoman (Jun 30, 2011)

Well, at my school, there is no such thing as a positive party in the biblical sense. They are not exactly a kindergarten birthday party, and on top of that, the frat people and others their obviously do not have a mind for God(Even though they claim to be since everyone is in the bible belt, right?). I could not see me or any other serious christian having a real, deep biblical study or talk with them at all. Thanks for everyone's responses


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## au5t1n (Jun 30, 2011)

Andres said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > Witnessing to drunk people is not really effective.
> ...



 (from a college student)


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## Theoretical (Jun 30, 2011)

Yep.  from a law student, if it wasn't clear from the other posts.


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## Don Kistler (Jun 30, 2011)

If whatever we do we are to do all for the glory of God, wouldn't it be appropriate to say that the reason to go to a party is because it is more glorifying to God to go than to not go. And the reason to abstain from going is because it is more glorifying to God to not be there than to be there.

It seems to me that apart from any of the other considerations that might arise, this one would be at the top of the list.


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## py3ak (Jun 30, 2011)

I don't recall ever coming across the commandment, "Thou shalt not be boring."


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## TimV (Jun 30, 2011)

> If whatever we do we are to do all for the glory of God, wouldn't it be appropriate to say that the reason to go to a party is because it is more glorifying to God to go than to not go.



Christ's first miracle was at a party where the people were getting at least moderately buzzed.


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## KevinInReno (Jul 1, 2011)

TimV said:


> > If whatever we do we are to do all for the glory of God, wouldn't it be appropriate to say that the reason to go to a party is because it is more glorifying to God to go than to not go.
> 
> 
> 
> Christ's first miracle was at a party where the people were getting at least moderately buzzed.



 There were even people (extremely likely) peeved they didn't have the good stuff before they got that buzz - so they could better appreciate it.

I don't agree with most of the avoid the parties posts here. You can be a ministry to people on how to have fun without drinking. In parties I didn't drink at, I still was fun loving, having a good time, joking around, etc. Or if you are of drinking age - you can again be a ministry to people even if having a drink or two. Now that being said if the parties have minors being served, illicit drugs, sexual sin you know about actively going on - by all manner leave it. I would also then say find some new friends. Not all unbelievers go animal house with parties. An activity (like Beer pong or dancing), conversation, and a keg or something in that realm surrounded most of my college parties I attended. I only once saw illicit drugs in a party I went to, and I immediately left. I can't recall being witness to any outlandish sexual sin that I wouldn't see by watching sexualized TV commercials which frequent the tube, and yeah at times I saw people drink too much - but an unbeliever drinking too much isn't warrant for me personally to leave, just as I wouldn't leave a sporting event because the guy 3 rows down and 4 seats to the left is completely tanked [I'm a David VanDrunen Two Kingdoms type of guy however].


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## David Pope (Jul 1, 2011)

For what it's worth, I distinctly remember how much issues like this seemed to occupy my mind while in college. I was in a fraternity and it seemed like there was always this internal debate about what I could do/attend without it "causing people to stumble." While it was a very important period in the formation of my identity in Christ, I'm very thankful that I've "moved on" a bit. My awareness of my own sinful heart has eclipsed the worry that I spent over attend/don't attend a particular party. 

Thankfully, college doesn't last forever and now I find that the social events that I do attend are much more fun and edifying, since I'm either actively involved in planning them or can simply RSVP with regrets if I'm not interested. 

Cordially,

David


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## Kiffin (Jul 1, 2011)

Don Kistler said:


> If whatever we do we are to do all for the glory of God, wouldn't it be appropriate to say that the reason to go to a party is because it is more glorifying to God to go than to not go. And the reason to abstain from going is because it is more glorifying to God to not be there than to be there.
> 
> It seems to me that apart from any of the other considerations that might arise, this one would be at the top of the list.



I'm with Don here. Go for God's glory or avoid for God's glory.


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