# The ancients thought the world was like a snow-globe



## Pergamum

> "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name." (Amos 9:6 NASB)







How do I answer the atheist that states that the ancients, to include the bible writers, believed the world to be shaped like a snow-globe?


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## Miss Marple

Well, there are layers of atmosphere.


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## Afterthought

Huh? Other versions translate the verse differently e.g. the AV reads,

"_It is_ he that buildeth his stories in the heaven, and hath founded his troop in the earth; he that calleth for the waters of the sea, and poureth them out upon the face of the earth: The Lord _is_ his name."



Pergamum said:


> How do I answer the atheist that states that the ancients, to include the bible writers, believed the world to be shaped like a snow-globe?


Maybe that the given verse doesn't imply the entire planet is dome-shaped? It is true after all that one can look around and see the earth looks like a dome from one's vantage point. One might then speak of the earth's dome-shape without necessarily implying that one is saying the entire planet as viewed from space is dome-shaped?


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## Hamalas

Ask him if the sun rose this morning.


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## Bill The Baptist

Pergamum said:


> "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name." (Amos 9:6 NASB)



Is it the entire world that no longer comprehends literary devices, or just atheists looking to discredit the Bible?


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## arapahoepark

Some probably did believe such a thing but it is impossible to know. I think Noel Weeks some where rebutted that argument and he' s a reformed scholar of the ANE. I will see if I can try to find it.


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## Pergamum

Yes, "the bible accommodated to human conventions of speech, such as 'the sun rose'" is one way to answer this. 

The Three-Layered Universe of the Bible | The Jacob Schriftman Blog



> People like J. I. Packer, however, point out that the picture of the three layers was no more intended to be “scientific” in character than “modern references to the sun rising, or light-headedness, or walking on air, or one’s heart sinking into one’s boot, would be. It is much likelier that they were simply standard pieces of imagery, which the writers utilized, and sometimes heightened for poetic effect, without a thought of what they would imply for cosmology and physiology if taken literally. And language means no more than it is used to mean. In any case, what the writers are concerned to tell us in the passages where they use these forms of speech is not the inner structure”[4] of the world, but its relation to God.




Biblical Errancy: Flat Earth in the Bible

Many even assert that the ancient writers (to include bible writers) believed in a flat earth (Isaiah's "circle of the earth" denoting the spherical base of the snow-globe and not the whole round orb/globe of the earth as a ball). 


Does anyone have links or books which address this question of mine?


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## Jack K

From anyone's particular vantage point on the earth, it _is_ a dome. So what's the problem? That's perfectly accurate language unless the Bible writer is trying to speak from the point of view of a detached science teacher looking down from space, which he isn't. Is the text in question a science textbook or a work of poetry? Just because the Bible is error-free does not mean its approach must be taken as that of a detached scientist. It has bigger purposes in mind.


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## Pergamum

Bill The Baptist said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name." (Amos 9:6 NASB)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it the entire world that no longer comprehends literary devices, or just atheists looking to discredit the Bible?
Click to expand...


How do we prove that it IS, in fact, a literary device and does not reflect their true views of the world. Did the ancients really believe there were "corners" of the earth, and if not, how do I prove it?


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## Pergamum

Jack K said:


> From anyone's particular vantage point on the earth, it _is_ a dome. So what's the problem? That's perfectly accurate language unless the Bible writer is trying to speak from the point of view of a detached science teacher looking down from space, which he isn't. Is the text in question a science textbook or a work of poetry? Just because the Bible is error-free does not mean its approach must be taken as that of a detached scientist. It has bigger purposes in mind.



So your answer would be that "the bible does not speak in scientific language"? Does it matter or not whether the ancients merely spoke that way or if they truly believed the universe to be tripled-layered and the earth to be a flat disc "fixed" in the heaven (immovable) above which was a dome-like firmament?


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## Pergamum

arap said:


> Some probably did believe such a thing but it is impossible to know. I think Noel Weeks some where rebutted that argument and he' s a reformed scholar of the ANE. I will see if I can try to find it.



Thanks. Any links? This sounds like exactly what I am looking for.


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## arapahoepark

Pergamum said:


> arap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some probably did believe such a thing but it is impossible to know. I think Noel Weeks some where rebutted that argument and he' s a reformed scholar of the ANE. I will see if I can try to find it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Any links? This sounds like exactly what I am looking for.
Click to expand...

There's this: i think there might be another though
Weeks: Does the Bible really teach a three-storey cosmology? - creation.com


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## Pergamum

arap said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> arap said:
> 
> 
> 
> Some probably did believe such a thing but it is impossible to know. I think Noel Weeks some where rebutted that argument and he' s a reformed scholar of the ANE. I will see if I can try to find it.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks. Any links? This sounds like exactly what I am looking for.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> There's this: i think there might be another though
> Weeks: Does the Bible really teach a three-storey cosmology? - creation.com
Click to expand...


THANKS!


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## Jack K

Pergamum said:


> Jack K said:
> 
> 
> 
> From anyone's particular vantage point on the earth, it _is_ a dome. So what's the problem? That's perfectly accurate language unless the Bible writer is trying to speak from the point of view of a detached science teacher looking down from space, which he isn't. Is the text in question a science textbook or a work of poetry? Just because the Bible is error-free does not mean its approach must be taken as that of a detached scientist. It has bigger purposes in mind.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So your answer would be that "the bible does not speak in scientific language"? Does it matter or not whether the ancients merely spoke that way or if they truly believed the universe to be tripled-layered and the earth to be a flat disc "fixed" in the heaven (immovable) above which was a dome-like firmament?
Click to expand...


Oh, I think the Bible does address many matters of science. But is that passage addressing the scientific issue of what the world looks like from outer space? No. No more than my comment that I saw the sun rise today is addressing the issue of whether the sun revolves around the earth or vice versa.

I also think we ought to give ancient people some credit. It doesn't take much brain power to look up in the sky and realize that the apparent circle you're looking at may indeed be a sphere, or to imagine that the world may be a sphere as well. I'm not sure we should just accept the idea that, because they use phrases like "four corners of the earth" in their poetry, they never considered the possibility, at least, of a spherical world.


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## Jonny.

Pergamum said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name." (Amos 9:6 NASB)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it the entire world that no longer comprehends literary devices, or just atheists looking to discredit the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do we prove that it IS, in fact, a literary device and does not reflect their true views of the world. Did the ancients really believe there were "corners" of the earth, and if not, how do I prove it?
Click to expand...


For some statements in Scripture it may be harder than others, but it is very clear that Amos 9 as a whole is full of literary devices. Either that or Israel had invented submarines (v3). Somehow I doubt that "the mountains dripping with wine" (v13) is a scientific description.

Whether a critic would accept that or not is another matter entirely.


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## Pergamum

Jonny. said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> "The One who builds His upper chambers in the heavens And has founded His vaulted dome over the earth, He who calls for the waters of the sea And pours them out on the face of the earth, The LORD is His name." (Amos 9:6 NASB)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is it the entire world that no longer comprehends literary devices, or just atheists looking to discredit the Bible?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> How do we prove that it IS, in fact, a literary device and does not reflect their true views of the world. Did the ancients really believe there were "corners" of the earth, and if not, how do I prove it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> For some statements in Scripture it may be harder than others, but it is very clear that Amos 9 as a whole is full of literary devices. Either that or Israel had invented submarines (v3). Somehow I doubt that "the mountains dripping with wine" (v13) is a scientific description.
> 
> Whether a critic would accept that or not is another matter entirely.
Click to expand...


Thanks. Yes.


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## whirlingmerc

Here's the thing. Don't let an atheist set the issues or tone of discussion. Aim the discussion on important issues. One might say poetically you shake up the world in some ways and things come down and settle. Use it as a springboard for more important issues... it's a snow globe smoke screen

But on the subject...Jesus spoke of events where the same event in the future would be in the day and night somehow, not really consistent with a flat earth 
I think 'ancients' get a bad rap. Even medieval kings had a globe in their hands signifying a spherical world with a cross on it signifying the reign of Christ
The venerable Bede and Thomas Aquinas both explicitly spoke of a spherical world. There always were some ancients who believed the world was spherical

If there were some ancient people in the dark and some not, is that a surprise?


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## SolaScriptura

The world isn't flat?! 

If the world was round, the people standing on the sides or bottom would fall off!


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## Peairtach

Who knows what true and useful current descriptions of the world that we use may be modified or abandoned as knowledge increases?

Science is always an ongoing project. 

Did the ancients have to know about quantum mechanics in order to have a valid/accuarate view of the world? Do we? Is quantum mechanics the last word, anyway?

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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