# Who may preach?



## Kevin (May 12, 2006)

Hey, Y'all

I have a question I would like some opinions on. I a layman in a reformed church(ARP) I have a BA in biblical studies & aprox 20 hours of seminary. I was ordained to the office of deacon (PCA) aprox 10 years ago. I have taught SS & led bible studies for years. My question is may I preach.

I have been invited several times to preach at a PCA church that has no pastor. One of my own elders seems to be hinting (nothing said directly) that I aught not to.

I am not under care & never have been.

Any one have an opinion?

Thanks.


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## DTK (May 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Kevin_
> Hey, Y'all
> 
> I have a question I would like some opinions on. I a layman in a reformed church(ARP) I have a BA in biblical studies & aprox 20 hours of seminary. I was ordained to the office of deacon (PCA) aprox 10 years ago. I have taught SS & led bible studies for years. My question is may I preach.
> ...


If you believe yourself called to some kind of pulpit ministry, then you need to make that known to your local session and seek their wisdom, and let them evaluate your giftedness for such. But you need to do that rather than poll an internet board for comments about what you should or should not do. None of us know you, and none of us can make that kind of evaluation. There is good reason why we of Presbyterian persuasion seek to bring such men under care.

As a side note, I am inclined (as traditional Presbyterianism) say that only ordained men preach. All activity performed otherwise would come under the category of exhortation - Romans 10:15 _And how shall they preach unless they are sent?_

Blessings,
DTK


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## Kevin (May 12, 2006)

Thanks, Rev King.

My situation is that I do not feel called to a pulpit ministry. I would think that what I am doing falls under the catagory of exhortation as well. I am wondering if others also think a layman may do this without coming under care?
I think that coming under care would only be appropriate if I was seeking ordination at some point.

BTW pastor King my father-in-law is from Forsyth, GA & I was amember at 1st PCA Ft Ogelthorpe for many years prior to moving.


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## DTK (May 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Kevin_
> BTW pastor King my father-in-law is from Forsyth, GA & I was amember at 1st PCA Ft Ogelthorpe for many years prior to moving.


Kevin,

If ever you are in Forsyth, I would count it an honor and a privilege if you would look me up. Perhaps we could get together over coffee or a meal.

Blessings,
DTK


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## wsw201 (May 12, 2006)

The advice David has given is good advice. You do need to talk to your Session for guidance.

From a strictly personal perspective, even though I am a Ruling Elder and can not preach but can only exhort, as David has rightly noted, the folks in the pews don't no the difference (in fact I'm not sure I do!). Therefore I would only consider it after much prayer and consultation with other elders, plus I would only consider it for churches within my own denomination.


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## BobVigneault (May 12, 2006)

Kevin, I have a similar background to your own. I am not ordained though I have served as an elder in the past. I have preached in a lot of churches. I follow in the tradition of Howell Harris. I have preached in EV Free, Congregational, Methodist, Baptist, Seventh Day Baptist and Lutheran churches. Ironically the only church I probably will never preach in is my own and that's fine. I'm suspicious of any church that invites me to come and preach. My SOP is this: As long as the recognized leadership of the church INVITES me to come and preach then that is my license. I will always go.

I do study all the time. I know my greek well enough to be dangerous. I study about preaching and I study preachers. When I step into the pulpit I feel the dread that Dr. McMahon recently spoke of in his April 29th broadcast of the Wild Boar News podcast. Please listen to that. I have encouraged pastors to examine themselves for that dread for years. The pulpit really is a plane that stands between God and His people. It's not a place for entertainers, motivational speakers or church CEOs. If my presence is displacing one of these clowns then I count it a privilege to be in that church to give the people what they have been missing - the WORD of our Sovereign.

[Edited on 5-12-2006 by BobVigneault]


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## gwine (May 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> Kevin, I have a similar background to your own. I am not ordained though I have served as an elder in the past. I have preached in a lot of churches. I follow in the tradition of Howell Harris. I have preached in EV Free, Congregational, Methodist, Baptist, Seventh Day Baptist and Lutheran churches. Ironically the only church I probably will never preach in is my own and that's fine. I'm suspicious of any church that invites me to come and preach. My SOP is this: As long as the recognized leadership of the church INVITES me to come and preach then that is my license. I will always go.
> 
> I do study all the time. I know my greek well enough to be dangerous. I study about preaching and I study preachers. When I step into the pulpit I feel the dread that Dr. McMahon recently spoke of in his April 29th broadcast of the Wild Boar News podcast. Please listen to that. I have encouraged pastors to examine themselves for that dread for years. The pulpit really is a plane that stands between God and His people. It's not a place for entertainers, motivational speakers or church CEOs. If my presence is displacing one of these clowns then I count it a privilege to be in that church to give the people what they have been missing - the WORD of our Sovereign.
> ...



 Preach it, brother.


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## bob (May 12, 2006)

Answering from a reformed baptist tradition, I would answer that if your elders are not opposed to seeing you fill pulpits for other churches that I would not be aware of any biblical reason why you could not do so. 

James advised that we ought not let many of you be teachers, knowing that they shall receive the greater condemnation. It is not enough to have read a few books and takes some seminary classes. One should be filled with Christian graces, be gifted by the Spirit, and have a solid understanding of the Scriptures before he begins to place himself in a teaching and preaching situation. 

Our church does not make the distinction between teaching and ruling elders. We utilize a parity and plurality of elders and while they do not share equally in the teaching and preaching that is done within the church, they would all be considered as apt to teach and fully capable and able to do so.

Because those who seek the office are not to be novices and apt to teach, it would seem logical to assume that these men have had training and opportunity to both learn and teach. Before I was ordained, I was given numerous opportunities to preach and teach. There were those in the church that felt that I had obvious pastoral gifts. At the time I did not feel inclined to desire the pastoral office, yet because my pastor and other pastor friends of mine that I respected were rather unanimous in their opinions, I listened to them and took the opportunities that were provided.

I don't believe that it is necessary to be ordained in order to preach or teach, but if your elders are not in full support, I would recommend that you take earnest heed to their counsel.

Bob


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## Ivan (May 12, 2006)

Charles Spurgeon was neither licensed or ordained....by man.


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## Herald (May 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> Charles Spurgeon was neither licensed or ordained....by man.



And hence the dicothomy between Baptist and Presbyterian churches. I'll stay out of this fray. I am not a Presbyterian and really have no right to offer comment. I have a hard enough time with Baptists.


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## beej6 (May 12, 2006)

I heard an exhortation by an elder at the church I used to attend, in which parenthetically he mentioned that he was "exhorting, not preaching," that is, he did not have to specifically exegete the text at hand from the original Hebrew, but was using it as a basis to encourage the congregation to follow God's Word.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (May 12, 2006)

Ordained elders.


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## Ivan (May 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BaptistInCrisis_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Ivan_
> ...



Good point, Bill. Bowing out too. 

Yeah, Bill, those Baptists can be a hand full. This is my many moods when it comes to my relationship with my fellow Baptists....       

Gets pretty crazy sometimes.


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## beej6 (May 13, 2006)

Kevin, I'd agree that your Session should give you guidance here. If they say no, and you feel strongly otherwise, then (a) you should examine your "inward" call - you've said you have no call to the pulpit ministry, yet you'd differ with your Session; (b) ask your Session what would be required of you to exhort.

If they say yes enthusiastically, you should again examine your inward call, as your Session are blessing your ability to exhort and there is a church (the PCA church you refer to) that is also "calling you outwardly" for your exhortations.

I agree with Gabriel that ordinarily ordained elders should be the only ones preaching or exhorting. Men under care of a presbytery fall in this category as well, though their sermons/exhortations should be reviewed as is appropriate for their stage of licensure.


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## Philip A (May 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Ordained elders.



Gabe, et al,

Since you bring this up, if I may I'd like to hijack the thread for a brief moment. I know that in most Baptist churches, a man who has the desire to enter the ministry might be allowed to preach on the Lord's Day, and that would be a part of evaluating his preaching gifts, with an eye to the church eventually endorsing his application to seminary.

In the Presbyterian world, where only ordained elders are allowed to preach, how would an aspirant's preaching abilities and gifts be evaluated to the same end?

Note that this is an open and honest question, for my information only - I tend to agree with you, but as a member in a Baptist church, I have no knowledge of how this would be done in Presbyterian and Reformed circles.


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## Kevin (May 13, 2006)

Thanks so much, everyone! I really do value the opportunity to hear from others on this topic.

One issue that I think is relevent is the derth of ANYONE to preach here. I know of 8-10 (some are multi-point) presbyterian churchs here that are vacant. The church that I have been to has been vacant for 4(!) years.

Please remember to pray for the reformed church here in eastern Canada, that God would send us ministers.

The vacant churches are PCC, PCA, & Free church. In the PCC ( a generally liberal denomination) the people left in these chuches come back in droves when a consevative supply is found.

The PCA chuch (Sov. Grace PCA) has issued a call & I hope to learn more tomorrow about the man & if he accepted.

God bless you all, & pray for me tomorrow & next sunday as I exhort.


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