# Paul Washer



## PresbyDane

We are in luck over here, at the 14-15 of July we get to host Paul Washer at a school building, were he will talk to a small group the first day, about church-plant and things like that. 
The second day we will invite as many people as possible to come hear him preach.

So now I would like to know... 
What are your opinions about Paul Washer? 
and maybe some comments on why.


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## Craig

No opinions yet...he seemed to come out of nowhere, though.


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## OPC'n

He's good....too bad he isn't Presbyterian!


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## LeeJUk

very good. Watching his video revealed the true gospel to me and dispelled a false image of God I had having went to even a church for a year.


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## christiana

He was interim pastor in Austin TX a few years back, where a friend attended and she shared a few tapes with me. I really liked his statement that the Christian life is like walking the fine edge of a razor blade. I consider him a fine christian who is committed to sharing Christ and especially with the hope of influencing youth in our culture.


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## Grace Alone

The sermons I have viewed by him were challenging, passionate, and doctrinally sound. I'd certainly go hear him if he came here.


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## OPC'n

He does teach the thought that God is wholly other than us rather than other. I don't think he understands what that really spells out. For example, if God were wholly other than us, we would not have His Word because no language would be communicable to us. Other examples would be His communicable attributes etc.


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## ReformedWretch

I love Paul Washer, I think he's the best preacher out there today (In my humble opinion). I can't get enough of his preaching/teaching.


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## PresbyDane

Joshua said:


> I don't like the limited options, so I couldn't vote.



Then you have permission just to comment, there you can put an unlimited number of options


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## Wannabee

Washer has an eye and mind that picks up on the nuances of what's wrong with churchianity in our culture and lays it bare for all to see in its naked ugliness. Pretenses are dashed to the rocks and gospel charlatans are exposed to the verity of the true Gospel when he opens his mouth. He's not as "reformed" as many here would like, but then, neither am I.  I'm grateful for his boldness and ability to proclaim truth in a loving but unashamed manner. He's a powerful preacher with similar passions against the abominations of easy believism.


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## christiana

Hes been around for quite a few years and has HeartCry Missionary

Home | HeartCry Missionary Society


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## Hippo

No one is likely to give him a thumbs down, the guy has given his life to the Gospel, is a great speaker and a brother in Christ.

Saying that I do not agree with all he says, but the options in the poll do not allow for such a position.


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## ReformedChapin

To me he attacks peoples characters too directly when preaching. A lot of people I know like him because of it. I prefer more the scholarly approach instead of the direct approach.


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## Wannabee

Ah, you mean things like, "white-washed tombs," "you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" and "Cretans are always liars." Yea, he does do that. Seems like there's some precedent though.


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## KMK

I haven't listened to enough to form an opinion. Is he a pastor or a traveling guest speaker?


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## Oecolampadius

I truly like what Paul Washer says in his sermons. What I don't like is the way some evangelicals keep gushing about him, like he's the best thing that ever happened to evangelicalism. These people need to know that the reason why Paul Washer is so unusual to them is because evangelicalism is plagued by so many preachers that hardly preach the truth of God's Word.

If the Lord were to place someone like my own pastor, Jason Wallace, in the setting that Paul Washer is in, I will not be surprised if these evangelicals will react the same way many of them did towards Paul Washer. I hope nobody misunderstands me here. I'm not bragging about my pastor. What I'm saying is that the reason why Washer's preaching is shocking to these people is due to the context/situation. And, these evangelicals need to examine not only their individualistic selves but their own churches and denominations and realize just how bad the situation is when preachers like Washer are uncommon amongst them.

I say this because I personally know of some people who tell me how great Paul Washer is and how much they've been blessed by his preaching. But I ask these same people, "What about the preaching in your church?" They tell me that their pastors do not seem to have a mind for theology and the gospel, if they did preach it, is watered down. In fact, one guy told me that he goes to a "Rick Warren type of church" and he doesn't like Rick Warren at all. Yet, he remains in that church because he says, after all, I can view Paul Washer's sermons on the internet and I have theological books that I read.

These people don't get it. I don't know if Washer has a fault in this too but I think that this individualistic mindset needs to stop. All too often what I hear from these evangelicals is concern for their individual selves and if this concern is to be ever shared to others, they go about it by recruiting others. Where is the ecclesiastical reform that is supposed to take place? Maybe pastors like Washer ought not only to challenge individuals but also the churches and denominations themselves.

Reactions: Love 1


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## ReformedWretch

I attend a reformed Church (third one in five years due to moving) and I can say I've never heard preaching like Paul Washers. I am not insulting any of the Pastors I sat under, they've just not been Paul Washer, not even close.


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## larryjf

I like judging by fruit....i played one of his youtube videos for a youth group lesson...it really shook the youth into a more devoted mindset.
Praise God!


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## Knoxienne

I like him. He's not one of my favorites, but I like him pretty well and I think he's doing a great work.


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## LawrenceU

Paul is a much needed prophetic voice in the American/Western church. He has been tested through the years and proven faithful. His mission organisation is outstanding.


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## caoclan

I agree that preaching like that is very useful, but not on a weekly basis. That being said, I'm sure if he were a called minister to one church on a permanent basis, his preaching would be more expository in style, rather than itinerant. He does sit, or did if he has since moved, under the preaching of Jeff Noblitt at First Baptist of Muscle Shoals, AL. Brother Noblitt is a fine expository preacher in his own right.


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## Pergamum

Washer preaches with a purpose to awaken. He is not preaching these sermons in the context of the same church every Sunday. So, any criticisms that he only preaches one type of sermon and leaves out other important elements is totally ignorant of the context. He preaches in a certain context and he brings a certain sort of message for a certain purpose. If he pastored the same church week in and week out I am sure his preaching would sound different. 

He is also the front man for a group, Heartcry, trying to stir up missions interest and get people on fire for missions...and he does a great job at that.

-----Added 5/12/2009 at 06:21:55 EST-----

Ha, Sean, we posted the same thing at the same time pretty much.


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## D. Paul

ReformedWretch said:


> and I can say I've never heard preaching like Paul Washers.



That's what I say about Art Azurdia. He's not a part of this poll, but...


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## KMK

Pergamum said:


> Washer preaches with a purpose to awaken. He is not preaching these sermons in the context of the same church every Sunday. So, any criticisms that he only preaches one type of sermon and leaves out other important elements is totally ignorant of the context. He preaches in a certain context and he brings a certain sort of message for a certain purpose. If he pastored the same church week in and week out I am sure his preaching would sound different.



This answers my question. Thanks. Who are these people you speak of who criticize him? Southern Baptists?


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## Craig

ReformedChapin said:


> To me he attacks peoples characters too directly when preaching. A lot of people I know like him because of it. I prefer more the scholarly approach instead of the direct approach.



That settles it...I officially like and respect Paul Washer.


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## Matthias

Here are 2 amazing examples of Paul Washer's preaching...

[video=youtube;a11ASw5NRUw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a11ASw5NRUw[/video]

This is him open air preaching in lima peru... amazing

[video=youtube;OjYLUpHQaiE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OjYLUpHQaiE[/video]


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## TaylorOtwell

For the context and purpose in which he preaches, I think he does a wonderful job!


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## ReformedChapin

Wannabee said:


> Ah, you mean things like, "white-washed tombs," "you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" and "Cretans are always liars." Yea, he does do that. Seems like there's some precedent though.



Not my style. I prefer to reason with people rather than call them names.


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## Rich Koster

I didn't hear of him before. Therefore, I voted no opinion and subscribed to his podcast.


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## christianyouth

I really like the sermons he has preached on what it means to be a true man of God. He talks about having a seriousness about life, which I appreciate so much since I have so many influences, both Christian and non-Christian(not to mention my own sinful heart) that tell me not to be so serious, to just kinda live moral, attend church, and do all I can to get set, financially and live the good life. Paul Washer really preached some real hard messages in that series that convinced me more than ever that the good life isn't the way to go.

So yep I agree with what the above people have said, he's a great preacher.


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## the particular baptist

I went to the True Church Conference at Grace Life Church in Muscle Shoals in Feb this year and heard brother Washer, Miller, and Baucham. brother Washer said that he has declared war against the "sinners prayer" and decisional regeneration, so, thats his mission in life, and in my opinion well worth any efforts from all of us and Grace people everywhere fighting alongside him as well.

In addition he heads HeartCry Missions which trains and supports indigenous missionaries with a strong emphasis on church planting. He models George Muller in that he does not go around raising support, but he and his staff pray and trust the Lord to provide their needs. He seeks to get local churches involved with the indigenous missionaries directly and by-pass HeartCry altogether. I praise God for raising up Paul Washer for a time like this.


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## AThornquist

D. Paul said:


> That's what I say about Art Azurdia. He's not a part of this poll, but...



Indeed. 

And I really like Paul Washer. Talk about not watering down the gospel!


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## the particular baptist

D. Paul said:


> ReformedWretch said:
> 
> 
> 
> and I can say I've never heard preaching like Paul Washers.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That's what I say about Art Azurdia. He's not a part of this poll, but...
Click to expand...


God has used Art Azurdia, well after his pastorate days, to teach this sinner that its all about God and His glory.


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## Ivan

KMK said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Washer preaches with a purpose to awaken. He is not preaching these sermons in the context of the same church every Sunday. So, any criticisms that he only preaches one type of sermon and leaves out other important elements is totally ignorant of the context. He preaches in a certain context and he brings a certain sort of message for a certain purpose. If he pastored the same church week in and week out I am sure his preaching would sound different.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This answers my question. Thanks. Who are these people you speak of who criticize him? Southern Baptists?
Click to expand...


Not this Southern Baptist.


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## Skyler

I know he has to have SOMETHING right, because I was listening to a message in which he was condemned for leading some of the youth into Calvinism. 

Other than that, I haven't heard.


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## Knoxienne

Craig said:


> ReformedChapin said:
> 
> 
> 
> To me he attacks peoples characters too directly when preaching. A lot of people I know like him because of it. I prefer more the scholarly approach instead of the direct approach.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That settles it...I officially like and respect Paul Washer.
Click to expand...


I agree. Jesus was pretty direct. So was the Apostle Paul.

-----Added 5/12/2009 at 09:17:06 EST-----



Wannabee said:


> Ah, you mean things like, "white-washed tombs," "you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" and "Cretans are always liars." Yea, he does do that. Seems like there's some precedent though.



Yes sir!!! If Jesus and the Apostle Paul said those things, they're good enough for the Lord's preachers of today to say!


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## Timothy William

I've listened to two of his sermons; so far my opinion is quite favourable. He is a direct and memorable speaker.


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## ReformedWretch

Thing is, he doesn't always preach those fired up, bold, (as some are calling name calling) messages. That is his forte', but if you listen to his podcasts you will find MANY sermons where he is calm, quiet, etc. teaching men how to be good husbands, fathers, and countless other subjects and not (as Paul himself has said) that mean guy you hear on the internet.


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## Wannabee

ReformedChapin said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, you mean things like, "white-washed tombs," "you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" and "Cretans are always liars." Yea, he does do that. Seems like there's some precedent though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not my style. I prefer to reason with people rather than call them names.
Click to expand...


Brother, you can't reason with apostates and heretics, first of all. Second, I don't know that I've ever heard him call anyone out by name. He attacks methods, philosophies and abominable teaching of men, but I don't know about individuals. But, then, I don't have a problem attacking what an individual says either, if it's heresy. Sheep just don't communicate with goats very well.


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## ReformedChapin

I do have to admit I was impressed with his sermon in spanish. He did an excellent job for a white guy.


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## ReformedWretch

ReformedChapin said:


> I do have to admit I was impressed with his sermon in spanish. He did an excellent job for a white guy.



He lived in Peru for YEARS


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## Knoxienne

ReformedWretch said:


> ReformedChapin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do have to admit I was impressed with his sermon in spanish. He did an excellent job for a white guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He lived in Peru for YEARS
Click to expand...


True, plus Spanish is a pretty easy language to learn.


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## kvanlaan

I have no problem with any man calling Joel Osteen a heretic, especially when he backs it up with Scripture. It is highly academic. Yes, call him out. He is a false teacher and is the judgment of God upon those who sit under his preaching (that's almost a direct quote from a Washer sermon I heard today).

I first heard Washer when a SUPER strait-laced Free Reformed friend of mine gave me a CD with Washer's "Shocking Message" sermon on it. He said it shocked him deeply, and it shook the tar out of me too. I've loved him ever since.

Adam, I'm with you 100% on this. I don't know that he'd fit into a pastor-of-a-congregation-for-30-years mold _anywhere_, but I love him. I think he is great in his particular context.


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## ReformedChapin

Knoxienne said:


> ReformedWretch said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ReformedChapin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I do have to admit I was impressed with his sermon in spanish. He did an excellent job for a white guy.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He lived in Peru for YEARS
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> True, plus Spanish is a pretty easy language to learn.
Click to expand...


Tell that to my white gf


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## ReformedWretch

kvanlaan said:


> I have no problem with any man calling Joel Osteen a heretic, especially when he backs it up with Scripture. It is highly academic. Yes, call him out. He is a false teacher and is the judgment of God upon those who sit under his preaching (that's almost a direct quote from a Washer sermon I heard today).
> 
> I first heard Washer when a SUPER strait-laced Free Reformed friend of mine gave me a CD with Washer's "Shocking Message" sermon on it. He said it shocked him deeply, and it shook the tar out of me too. I've loved him ever since.
> 
> Adam, I'm with you 100% on this. I don't know that he'd fit into a pastor-of-a-congregation-for-30-years mold _anywhere_, but I love him. I think he is great in his particular context.



I'd sit under him or a pastor like him gladly.


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## kvanlaan

I know, brother. But he does seem to fit the itinerant mold so much better.


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## caoclan

Brother Washer also preaches fine messages on the concept of courtship vs dating.


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## ReformedWretch

He has plenty of fine messages outside his loud and bold ones. I am completely shocked that this has 5 thumbs down, a little disappointed too.


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## ReformedChapin

Wannabee said:


> ReformedChapin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Ah, you mean things like, "white-washed tombs," "you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" and "Cretans are always liars." Yea, he does do that. Seems like there's some precedent though.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not my style. I prefer to reason with people rather than call them names.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Brother, you can't reason with apostates and heretics, first of all. Second, I don't know that I've ever heard him call anyone out by name. He attacks methods, philosophies and abominable teaching of men, but I don't know about individuals. But, then, I don't have a problem attacking what an individual says either, if it's heresy. Sheep just don't communicate with goats very well.
Click to expand...

Oh wait, are you saying that calling people names is better than reasoning with them? Were both calvinist so we both agree that our methods aren't what causes a person to change it's God. However, Id prefer an intellectual discussion or debate over ad hominims any day.


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## ReformedWretch

> Id prefer an intellectual discussion or debate over ad hominims any day.



Can you give me an example of Paul's ad hominids?


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## charliejunfan

He is a wonderful start, he hits the nail on the head with assurance. My favorite quote on assurance is from him, I paraphrase it like so, If you expect someone hit by a truck to be changed in a drastic way how much more can you expect a person saved by God to be changed in a drastic way!

He is great for the true gospel and assurance, only I havn't heard him talk about the overwhelming mercy of God, and I think it is dangerous to leave men self centered on their sin or not sin.


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## OPC'n

caoclan said:


> Brother Washer also preaches fine messages on the concept of courtship vs dating.



Which a lot of people here won't like.


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## ReformedWretch

> only I havn't heard him talk about the overwhelming mercy of God



He has/does. Ever hear his testimony?


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## Phil Fourie

I have listened to a lot of Washer sermons, he is probably alongside MacArthur and Piper on my list of favorite preachers. He has a passion for the gospel that I have seen in very few people. He is not all shouting and confronting, if you do listen to more of his sermons, you will find that he is a great teacher, teaching on subjects that are extremely relevant today, ie. dating, being a man, practical holiness. These messages he also preaches passionately.

I will be ever grateful to his preaching as the Lord has done a great work in my life through the preaching of Paul Washer, the understanding of holiness and fear of the Lord.


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## charliejunfan

To Adam, yes I have seen his testimony ("isn't it enough?"), what I am saying is that in his messages he leaves people to self centeredness. He is GREAT at driving home the point that not all who say Lord Lord will enter heaven, what he is not great at is taking the attention away from self and redirecting it to Christ. 

Jesus condemed the pharisees for not realizing their utter unholiness and inability to be self righteous, besides proving this by showing them that their natures and desires were unchanged He told them to either rest in Himself (Christ) or go to hell, and if people are left to trust in their sanctification they are just as much a child of hell as those who have no knowledge of biblical things. 

Above all we preach the doctrines of GRACE, NOT the doctrines of Self examination


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## WaywardNowHome

charliejunfan said:


> To Adam, yes I have seen his testimony ("isn't it enough?"), what I am saying is that in his messages he leaves people to self centeredness. He is GREAT at driving home the point that not all who say Lord Lord will enter heaven, what he is not great at is taking the attention away from self and redirecting it to Christ.
> 
> Jesus condemed the pharisees for not realizing their utter unholiness and inability to be self righteous, besides proving this by showing them that their natures and desires were unchanged He told them to either rest in Himself (Christ) or go to hell, and if people are left to trust in their sanctification they are just as much a child of hell as those who have no knowledge of biblical things.
> 
> Above all we preach the doctrines of GRACE, NOT the doctrines of Self examination



Are we listening to the same Paul Washer? Because every single sermon that I've heard from him, regardless of topic, has always pointed to and ended with Christ. Always. Washer's focus on sin and unholiness is necessary for him to drive the main point, which is Christ and our redemption through Him.

I would compare Washer to the Old Testament prophets who had to plow for a long time before focusing on salvation (Isaiah 1-39, 40-66 come to mind).

In the same way that you won't see your need for a key if you don't see that you're trapped in a dungeon cell, you won't see your need for Christ if you don't see your own sin and depravity and the wrath you've earned yourself.


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## tellville

Just curious, are there any other preachers out there like Paul Washer?


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## Rangerus

Listened to his full length you tube video. Thanks for starting this poll because I had never heard of him. Even though he went to the University of Texas (hook 'em horns!)


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## ewenlin

without Paul I would still be caught up in the silliness of the charismatic movement with all the easy beliverism decision regeneration nonsense. 

Without a doubt, in terms of sermon delivery, Paul is the most passionate, articulate and frightening preacher I've ever heard. He seems to possess a keen gift in seeing the trends and happenings in modern evangelicalism and never fails to address failings where it ought. He's a very serious and studied man who is also surprisingly extremely humble, especially to hear him speak on how he was criticized by some elders that hurt him not because it was hurtful but rather because it was true. He reminds me of the puritans in that he so desires to conform every part of his life to Christ.

Well, before I sound like a total Paul Washer fan-boy, what some of the pb here have said are true, you have to see the context of his preaching. Most of it is not meant to be the regular sunday preaching. He's not even the preaching pastor at his home church If I recall correctly. To quote him, if you've heard him preach once you probably wouldn't need to hear him preach again because its all roughly the same. In this way, you can't compare him to people like John Piper who preaches every sunday to the same congregation.

Still, I've always hoped to sit myself under someone to follow in his footsteps and that will be none other than brother Paul.

Do pray for him as someone like him often carry burdens too heavy without the grace of God.


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## Rangerus

How refreshing is it to see the Lord raising up preachers like Paul Washer who will speak boldly and unashamedly the assurance of salvation and true regeneration. That care only for living in Holiness and Righteousness bearing the fruit of the Spirit.


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## kvanlaan

> In the same way that you won't see your need for a key if you don't see that you're trapped in a dungeon cell, you won't see your need for Christ if you don't see your own sin and depravity and the wrath you've earned yourself.



Yep. This comment reminds me of something that I heard from Ray Comfort. If you tell a man that you're giving him a cure to disease X, he'll say "great, thanks," and wave goodbye. You have to first show him his symptoms and the lethality of disease X. Then, when you tell him you're giving him the cure to it, it will drive home with great force. I think this is where Washer really excels.


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## CDM

I have not voted. The few clips I've heard have been very passionate speeches and commentary about the holiness of God and the severity of his wrath toward sinners--thumbs up here. I appreciate his boldness. 

Yet, even in this clip, I have heard no exposition of the scripture. No preaching from the text. Yes, I have heard Paul Washers feelings and opinions communicated. I enjoyed his message to the youth (don’t know I’d call it preaching). It's more like he's giving Christian social commentary like what occurs on the PB so often. All fine and good, but is this gospel preaching? Comments like, “God will break you in a million pieces to conform you to Christ if you are his” may have a place here and there. But, where is he drawing this idea from the Scripture?

I'd like to listen to an entire sermon or two so I can have an informed opinion about him. If his sermons are, in large part, like these clips I'm not sure I can call it biblical preaching. Witnessing for the Lord--yes.


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## mvdm

CDM said:


> I have not voted. The few clips I've heard have been very passionate speeches and commentary about the holiness of God and the severity of his wrath toward sinners--thumbs up here. I appreciate his boldness.
> 
> Yet, even in this clip, I have heard no exposition of the scripture. No preaching from the text. Yes, I have heard Paul Washers feelings and opinions communicated. I enjoyed his message to the youth (don’t know I’d call it preaching). It's more like he's giving Christian social commentary like what occurs on the PB so often. All fine and good, but is this gospel preaching? Comments like, “God will break you in a million pieces to conform you to Christ if you are his” may have a place here and there. But, where is he drawing this idea from the Scripture?
> 
> I'd like to listen to an entire sermon or two so I can have an informed opinion about him. If his sermons are, in large part, like these clips I'm not sure I can call it biblical preaching. Witnessing for the Lord--yes.




Listen to his sermon "The Great White Throne Room of Judgment". There, he does a better job of preaching directly on texts from the book of Revelation.


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## ReformedWretch

The internet is filled with his fire and brimstone messages. You'd have to download and listen to his podcasts to find the more "normal" Sunday morning style messages.


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## Wannabee

ReformedChapin said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ReformedChapin said:
> 
> 
> 
> Not my style. I prefer to reason with people rather than call them names.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brother, you can't reason with apostates and heretics, first of all. Second, I don't know that I've ever heard him call anyone out by name. He attacks methods, philosophies and abominable teaching of men, but I don't know about individuals. But, then, I don't have a problem attacking what an individual says either, if it's heresy. Sheep just don't communicate with goats very well.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Oh wait, are you saying that calling people names is better than reasoning with them? Were both calvinist so we both agree that our methods aren't what causes a person to change it's God. However, Id prefer an intellectual discussion or debate over ad hominims any day.
Click to expand...


Sorry for the long quote, but I'd like to keep this in context.
Your comments have a knack of carrying just enough truth to discredit what someone says, without really addressing what was actually said. I say Washer attacks methodology and philosophy and you imply that I approved calling names above reasoning. In such a case, your own reasoning is unclear. Furthermore, his sermons do not involve ad hom attacks. They involve the unashamed proclamation of truth. Perhaps he's a bit abrasive for some. And no preacher is perfect. But when you see people left and right seeking their best life now then you realize that they've been fed a pack of lies and that following such teaching will give them just what it promises - their best life now, and eternal torment to follow. May God call more faithful preachers to expose the lies of easy believism, which is what he attacks and exposes, and eradicate the false sense of security that sends men gleefully to hell. Souls are too precious to attempt to reason with Belial over the souls of men.

Blessings,


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## LawrenceU

Alright, listen here fellows, Paul Washer is a fine man from Alabama. I'm from Alabama. Get the message????? 

All kidding aside. I'm floored that someone can hear very much of Paul's teaching/preaching and come away that he leaves someone self-centered. I have seen some hacked up youtube videos that might do that. But, he is in my opinion on of the most God centered preachers in the popular front. (And, he NEVER sought the popularity.)

I'm also rather shocked that anyone could listen to his work and call him a name calling ad hominem attacker. He uses names far less that the WHI fellows. I've never heard him deride someone with humour like you hear at times on WHI. Yet, I've never heard anyone chide them. BTW, I don't think what they do is wrong either. Call a kettle black if it is black. Call a man a false prophet if that is what he is. Call him a hypocrite if he is one. According to the standards of accusation leveled against Paul in this light Jesus would be a sinner. And, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Owen, Spurgeon, and scores of others are unfit for spiritual leadership.


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## ewenlin

LawrenceU said:


> Alright, listen here fellows, Paul Washer is a fine man from Alabama. I'm from Alabama. Get the message?????
> 
> All kidding aside. I'm floored that someone can hear very much of Paul's teaching/preaching and come away that he leaves someone self-centered. I have some some hacked up youtube videos that might do that. But, he is in my opinion on of the most God centered preachers in the popular front. (And, he NEVER sought the popularity.)
> 
> I'm also rather shocked that anyone could listen to his work and call him a name calling ad hominem attacker. He used names far less that the WHI fellows. I've never heard him deride someone with humour like you hear at times on WHI. Yet, I've never heard anyone chide them. BTW, I don't think what they do is wrong either. Call a kettle black if it is black. Call a man a false prophet if that is what he is. Call him a hypocrite if he is one. According to the standards of accusation leveled against Paul in this light Jesus would be a sinner. And, Paul, Peter, James, Jude, Augustine, Luther, Calvin, Knox, Owen, Spurgeon, and scores of others are unfit for spiritual leadership.




well said!


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## reformedminister

I have never heard of him before. From the clips I saw on YouTube, it seems he is a heartfelt preacher and presents the gospel with clarity.


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## Pergamum

charliejunfan said:


> To Adam, yes I have seen his testimony ("isn't it enough?"), what I am saying is that in his messages he leaves people to self centeredness. He is GREAT at driving home the point that not all who say Lord Lord will enter heaven, what he is not great at is taking the attention away from self and redirecting it to Christ.
> 
> Jesus condemed the pharisees for not realizing their utter unholiness and inability to be self righteous, besides proving this by showing them that their natures and desires were unchanged He told them to either rest in Himself (Christ) or go to hell, and if people are left to trust in their sanctification they are just as much a child of hell as those who have no knowledge of biblical things.
> 
> Above all we preach the doctrines of GRACE, NOT the doctrines of Self examination





Post any 5 sermons that you've preached on the web and I am sure we could probably find even more knit-picking faults than you have dug out here.


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## BradyC

I know it may not be popular, but I have mixed feelings about Washer. (however, it is based on limited exposure to him and his ministry). Is he a traveling evangelist? Does he pastor a church? I would hope he does not preach to a congregation week after week the way he does in all of his videos on YouTube (where it seems address people like they are all unregenerate). If so, I imagine his sheep are constantly living in doubt and despair. 

Also, he seems really unbalanced in his view of assurance. He puts far too much emphasis on the practical syllogism (i.e. Christians will be characterized by XYZ, I am characterized by XYZ, therefore I am a Christian). The problem with this approach is that he trains people to look at themselves for their standing before God. Such an approach can only lead to pride or despair. For Calvin, assurance always stemmed primarily from resting upon the promises of God rather than the practical syllogism. The practical syllogism had its place no doubt, but was always a secondary confirmation to the believer.

All in all, I think Washer has some great things to say but is just a little too over the top for me. The sermons I have listened to have done a great job in showing me my sin, guilt and shame but have left me feeling hopeless. Just my opinion though.

In Christ,
Brady


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## CharlieJ

BradyC said:


> Also, he seems really unbalanced in his view of assurance. He puts far too much emphasis on the practical syllogism (i.e. Christians will be characterized by XYZ, I am characterized by XYZ, therefore I am a Christian). The problem with this approach is that he trains people to look at themselves for their standing before God. Such an approach can only lead to pride or despair. For Calvin, assurance always stemmed primarily from resting upon the promises of God rather than the practical syllogism. The practical syllogism had its place no doubt, but was always a secondary confirmation to the believer.



I agree. I would make the same comments about John MacArthur and Walter Chantry. Among Reformed-ish Baptists (and JMac was my exposure to the Reformed faith), some seem to tend to a very heavy emphasis on personal performance for assurance of salvation. Many use it as an evangelism tool - "You say you're a Christian, but look at your life. You're not really a Christian, are you?" The problem with this is that, while it may be true for some in the crows, it has terribly damaging effects on true Christians who have weak consciences, are currently struggling with sin, or tend toward performance-oriented thinking. 

If we are honest, every single one of us falls terribly short of God's holiness every single day. If I were to focus on my sins (which is what their preaching often does), I would be in constant despair, and for good reason. Even after being saved, I am so wicked that even the deeds that I think of as most righteous are like used tampons. I have seen quite a few of my friends fall into deep doubt or spiritual fear after reading JMac or hearing Paul Washer, not because they were not living repentant lifestyles but because they were caused to focus on their remaining sin. Taking their eyes of Christ and his super-abundant righteousness was spiritually poisonous for them.

Our preaching and teaching needs balance - Jesus shook the comfortable AND comforted the shaken. Now, I'm a big fan of both JMac and Washer, but I think this deficiency needs to be pointed out. Because they both do so many things right doesn't give them a pass when they do wrong. But that's all it is; a wrong thing. PW still gets a thumbs up from me.


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## Knoxienne

CharlieJ said:


> BradyC said:
> 
> 
> 
> Also, he seems really unbalanced in his view of assurance. He puts far too much emphasis on the practical syllogism (i.e. Christians will be characterized by XYZ, I am characterized by XYZ, therefore I am a Christian). The problem with this approach is that he trains people to look at themselves for their standing before God. Such an approach can only lead to pride or despair. For Calvin, assurance always stemmed primarily from resting upon the promises of God rather than the practical syllogism. The practical syllogism had its place no doubt, but was always a secondary confirmation to the believer.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I agree. I would make the same comments about John MacArthur and Walter Chantry. Among Reformed-ish Baptists (and JMac was my exposure to the Reformed faith), some seem to tend to a very heavy emphasis on personal performance for assurance of salvation. Many use it as an evangelism tool - "You say you're a Christian, but look at your life. You're not really a Christian, are you?" The problem with this is that, while it may be true for some in the crows, it has terribly damaging effects on true Christians who have weak consciences, are currently struggling with sin, or tend toward performance-oriented thinking.
> 
> If we are honest, every single one of us falls terribly short of God's holiness every single day. If I were to focus on my sins (which is what their preaching often does), I would be in constant despair, and for good reason. Even after being saved, I am so wicked that even the deeds that I think of as most righteous are like used tampons. I have seen quite a few of my friends fall into deep doubt or spiritual fear after reading JMac or hearing Paul Washer, not because they were not living repentant lifestyles but because they were caused to focus on their remaining sin. Taking their eyes of Christ and his super-abundant righteousness was spiritually poisonous for them.
> 
> Our preaching and teaching needs balance - Jesus shook the comfortable AND comforted the shaken. Now, I'm a big fan of both JMac and Washer, but I think this deficiency needs to be pointed out. Because they both do so many things right doesn't give them a pass when they do wrong. But that's all it is; a wrong thing. PW still gets a thumbs up from me.
Click to expand...


I think you've got a good point that there needs to be a balance and preachers need to make sure their preaching is balanced. But as listeners we also have a responsibility, since the best preaching is not infallible. We need to be active listeners to any and all teaching from the pulpit. 

If a preacher is using Practical Syllogism, we can be remembering Christ's atoning work for us and taking into account that it's the Holy Spirit that makes us holy. That always needs to be on our minds. It is good to be exhorted and told how to live as long as we remember who secured our salvation and who is sanctifying us by His grace. Then we realize we are free to live in a righteous way. 

At the same time, if a preacher is not very practical in his approach, we have the responsibility of searching our own hearts, and making our calling and election sure as those doctrines are taught to us from the pulpit.


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## rescuedbyLove




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## Wannabee

Charlie,

I think what you're witnessing is what becomes popular. For instance, "Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God" did not leave people with assurance. It left them trembling and crying out, "What must I do to be saved?!" These are the types of sermons that burst upon our conscience and expose the lies we strive to hide deep inside. They are memorable. But Washer has some excellent teaching on assurance and perseverance. Of course, these are necessarily tied with examining one's self. Just take a look at 1 John, not to mention most of Paul's epistles. All confront the saint with a need for a walk that reflects the salvation they claim. And MacArthur teaches on assurance as well.
There's also some psychobabble that tends to infiltrate our thinking. For instance, would you rather challenge someone on their salvation and find out in eternity that they were already saved, or take it for granted and find out they weren't? The answer is obvious, but in our thin skinned and self-focused society that's not a popular way of thinking. It's too "insensitive." Furthermore modern ideas would tell you that you need to complement people or tell them what they've done right more often than show them their sin or tell them what they should not do. But this is not the norm of Scripture. The commandments are overwhelmingly "Thou shalt not," not "Thou shalt." Jesus derides poor teaching, apostasy and heresy, but rarely compliments someone on a job well done. He might encourage where there is growth, but, like Paul, He still encourages them to "excel still more."

Our assurance is found in Christ and the verity of His Word reflected in our daily lives. As Christ said, you will know them by their fruit. There are no fence sitters in the Kingdom of God. This is what Washer and MacArthur, among others, teach; and this in the face of the insurance policy offered by so many preaching salesmen. As Josef Tson said, a preacher once remarked that his people wouldn't buy that we are slaves of Christ, so he sold them what they would buy.


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## Bern

It was through Paul Washer that God led me to the Reformed view, to embrace Calvinism and to set my sights higher in terms of being a good husband, increasing in practical holiness and increasing my view of God. Like any man, he's not perfect... but I appreciate his ministry. Its easy to nit pick, but until I've lived in hard conditions in Peru, and been through what he has, and preached the way he has, I'll keep my criticisms to myself


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## CharlieJ

Wannabee said:


> Our assurance is found in Christ and the verity of His Word reflected in our daily lives. As Christ said, you will know them by their fruit. There are no fence sitters in the Kingdom of God. This is what Washer and MacArthur, among others, teach; and this in the face of the insurance policy offered by so many preaching salesmen.



Joe,

I have some disagreements with MacArthur's approach to assurance of salvation and with the general ethos of the doctrines that are commonly termed "lordship salvation." I am not alone in my disagreement. I will, however, direct away from myself and to better men. For anyone who wishes to look into the matter further, I will suggest a small, medium, and large.

Small - "Some Thoughts on Lordship Salvation" by James Sawyer
Bible.org: Some Thoughts on Lordship Salvation

"Reflections on Christian Assurance" by D.A. Carson
http://www.sgc.org/resources/ReflectionsonAssurance.pdf

Medium - _Christ the Lord: The Reformation and Lordship Salvation_, edited by Michael Horton. I highly recommend this book, as it shows a number of Reformed men (Robert Strimple, Kim Riddlebarger, etc.) have concerns about both the Hodges style easy-believism and MacArthur's presentation of issues such as justification, faith-works relationship, etc. I believe the authors have captured the authentic Reformation spirit and shown where MacArthur and Hodges deviate from it (Hodges much more, of course.)

Large - _Assurance of Faith_ by Joel Beeke. This is a more readable version of his doctoral dissertation, following the development of the doctrine of assurance from Calvin through the Puritans. Beeke affirms the practical syllogism, but I believe that the entire framework of his theology has a balance which some contemporaries lack.


----------



## Wannabee

Thanks Bern.
I can't imagine how grueling it would be to have my sermons critiqued here. If they're ever on line, I think I'll just not say anything... or use an alias.


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## Knoxienne

Bern said:


> It was through Paul Washer that God led me to the Reformed view, to embrace Calvinism and to set my sights higher in terms of being a good husband, increasing in practical holiness and increasing my view of God. Like any man, he's not perfect... but I appreciate his ministry. Its easy to nit pick, but until I've lived in hard conditions in Peru, and been through what he has, and preached the way he has, I'll keep my criticisms to myself



Exactly. I remember a sermon where he said one preacher down there had goat urine poured on him by people who got angry at his preaching. I know there are worse types of persecution even than that, but you're right - he's seen and been through a lot. And it's made him love Christ more.


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## LawrenceU

Wannabee said:


> Thanks Bern.
> I can't imagine how grueling it would be to have my sermons critiqued here. If they're ever on line, I think I'll just not say anything... or use an alias.



Yep. Roast Preacher is a popular internet dish.


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## CharlieJ

Wannabee said:


> Thanks Bern.
> I can't imagine how grueling it would be to have my sermons critiqued here. If they're ever on line, I think I'll just not say anything... or use an alias.



Joe, are we reading the same thread? This thread is far more to the fanboy side than the lynch mob. Most of those who have offered criticisms have restricted them to individual aspects of his ministry, rather than passing blanket judgments. The overwhelming consensus has been that Washer is a good man doing good work. 

I find your comment hilarious, since you just wrote, "Jesus derides poor teaching, apostasy and heresy, but rarely compliments someone on a job well done. He might encourage where there is growth, but, like Paul, He still encourages them to "excel still more."


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## Blue Tick

I'm a little late to this rodeo... But here's my 

Mr. Washer’s concerns could be addressed very easily if there was true biblical and Confessional reform. That is reforming back to the Bible and reforming and teaching people what the Confessions and Catechism teach. My concern is that Mr. Washer will get people on an emotional trip not balanced with solid biblically reforming Christian piety. It’s easy to say we have this indictment against the church; but where is the guidance after the indictment is made? If this is true of the modern church, what is the standard in which the church is to conduct itself? Moreover, it’s very easy to critique the church and to point out all of the deficiencies within evangelicalism; but this should not be the object of the church at larger to critique the church. Alternatively, maybe the approach should be instead of pointing out the error of the modern church, the church should be pointing folks to the history of the Christian church and what the church has historically held as Christian piety from a Confessional base.

The answer to Mr. Washer's concerns can be addressed by reforming back to God's word and practicing Confessional Christianity. I believe he’s making the case to reform back to God’s word which is great! I’m encouraged to hear this. However, the church must confess what we believe and why we believe it. Therefore, the true need is to reform back to biblical Confessionalism.


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## ReformedChapin

Wannabee said:


> ReformedChapin said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Brother, you can't reason with apostates and heretics, first of all. Second, I don't know that I've ever heard him call anyone out by name. He attacks methods, philosophies and abominable teaching of men, but I don't know about individuals. But, then, I don't have a problem attacking what an individual says either, if it's heresy. Sheep just don't communicate with goats very well.
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait, are you saying that calling people names is better than reasoning with them? Were both calvinist so we both agree that our methods aren't what causes a person to change it's God. However, Id prefer an intellectual discussion or debate over ad hominims any day.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Sorry for the long quote, but I'd like to keep this in context.
> Your comments have a knack of carrying just enough truth to discredit what someone says, without really addressing what was actually said. I say Washer attacks methodology and philosophy and you imply that I approved calling names above reasoning. In such a case, your own reasoning is unclear. Furthermore, his sermons do not involve ad hom attacks. They involve the unashamed proclamation of truth. Perhaps he's a bit abrasive for some. And no preacher is perfect. But when you see people left and right seeking their best life now then you realize that they've been fed a pack of lies and that following such teaching will give them just what it promises - their best life now, and eternal torment to follow. May God call more faithful preachers to expose the lies of easy believism, which is what he attacks and exposes, and eradicate the false sense of security that sends men gleefully to hell. Souls are too precious to attempt to reason with Belial over the souls of men.
> 
> Blessings,
Click to expand...


I'm not here to criticize Washers methods. I already stated that his methods just aren't my style. When he is critical of people, I'm not stating that his critiques aren't true, they fully are, I'm just stating that I personally wouldn't approach that way.

Example from your own quotes:


> Ah, you mean things like, "white-washed tombs," "you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves" and "Cretans are always liars." Yea, he does do that. Seems like there's some precedent though.



My way: The Gospel states that those who _____ are _____. If you find yourself doing ______ the Gospel commands that you repent.

That was just a quick example. Washers method to me sometimes seems to me more like Law, be good, be good method. And it also seems like it's his own personal judgment, although I know it's not but it can be percieved that way.


Another quick example as to how I would approach easy believism.

Easy believism or seeker friendly churches adopt tactics that are unbiblical and adapt to mans need for feelings and emotion. (Proceed to give history of easy believism ____. Proceed to give those who founded this method.)

Just my


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## Pergamum

Blue Tick said:


> I'm a little late to this rodeo... But here's my
> 
> Mr. Washer’s concerns could be addressed very easily if there was true biblical and Confessional reform. That is reforming back to the Bible and reforming and teaching people what the Confessions and Catechism teach. My concern is that Mr. Washer will get people on an emotional trip not balanced with solid biblically reforming Christian piety. It’s easy to say we have this indictment against the church; but where is the guidance after the indictment is made? If this is true of the modern church, what is the standard in which the church is to conduct itself? Moreover, it’s very easy to critique the church and to point out all of the deficiencies within evangelicalism; but this should not be the object of the church at larger to critique the church. Alternatively, maybe the approach should be instead of pointing out the error of the modern church, the church should be pointing folks to the history of the Christian church and what the church has historically held as Christian piety from a Confessional base.
> 
> The answer to Mr. Washer's concerns can be addressed by reforming back to God's word and practicing Confessional Christianity. I believe he’s making the case to reform back to God’s word which is great! I’m encouraged to hear this. However, the church must confess what we believe and why we believe it. Therefore, the true need is to reform back to biblical Confessionalism.



Yep, "Confessional Christianity" really works for the PCUSA.


The solution is a return to Biblical Christianity; and this return might go through the means of a confession, but it does not need to. "COnfessionalism" is not a magic bullet.


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## tdowns

*What's a better christian life?*

I almost started a thread on this, a while ago. One thing, that I get from Washer, is what seems to me the old you're a better christian if you're in missions or ministry, etc...too the point that he said, he prays his son wants to follow his footsteps, into the missions field. Which is great but should we pray that? Isn't it great, if God, wants to call his son, to be a ???, in life as a regenerate Christian?

To me, one pitfall to many of the Americanized churches, is to not recognize the "work with your hands" simplicity, that is just as God honoring for MOST believers, as going into the "ministry". I believe one can live a radically transformed life as a christian because they love God, they desire to follow His law, and to live a "normal" simple life, and only some are CALLED, to be in the ministry.

It's been a while but I think, Shaefer, Sproul and some threads on the PB have dealt with this, the "false guilt", that, being a Christian means, I should be in the ministry.

I'm only basing it on a couple of sermons but out of all the young people he was preaching too, how many should actually be going into ministry? I think the call to walk the christian walk, is great.

I'm being nit picky though, I love the guy and voted thumbs up!


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## Wannabee

CharlieJ said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks Bern.
> I can't imagine how grueling it would be to have my sermons critiqued here. If they're ever on line, I think I'll just not say anything... or use an alias.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe, are we reading the same thread? This thread is far more to the fanboy side than the lynch mob. Most of those who have offered criticisms have restricted them to individual aspects of his ministry, rather than passing blanket judgments. The overwhelming consensus has been that Washer is a good man doing good work.
> 
> I find your comment hilarious, since you just wrote, "Jesus derides poor teaching, apostasy and heresy, but rarely compliments someone on a job well done. He might encourage where there is growth, but, like Paul, He still encourages them to "excel still more."
Click to expand...

My comments were simply in response to Bern's statement, and obviously understood by at least one other member of the board. Your comment about my "hilarity" seems a bit condescending and mocking, brother.


CharlieJ said:


> Small - "Some Thoughts on Lordship Salvation" by James Sawyer
> Bible.org: Some Thoughts on Lordship Salvation



Thanks Charlie,

There are some reservations in the manner in which some of this is understood. And, the way Lordship salvation is presented to many, it is an abomination. Unfortunately, many have turned the phrase to mean "works righteousness," which is a misunderstanding - I'm sure you're aware of this tendency.
An interesting note in Sawyer's article is his statement that he has counseled many who have struggled in light of MacArthur's teaching, but not in light of Hodges'. Isn't this understandable? Hodges does not challenge someone to "walk worthy of the calling with which you've been called" as a reflection of our condition before God. MacArthur, on the other hand, exhorts us to examine our lives in light of God's Word and discern whether or not the pattern of our lives exemplifies Christ, or the World. On one hand people are comfortable with their profession of faith.... along with the demons. On the other hand people are confronted with the fact that a profession without works, as James would say, is dead. When confronted with such of course a nominal or pseudo-Christian will be challenged, and need counseling. It's simply logical, but hardly conclusive in regard to who is correct.

Another common problem is that, in his original, MacArthur makes a statement that is Romanesque, if you will. He states, as Sawyer quotes, that the believer is made righteous (181). This is infusion, and unorthodox. But that version was edited over ten years ago to reflect a more reformed and biblical teaching. On righteousness:

And we certainly cannot live up to God’s standard of perfect righteousness... The remedy Luther found was the doctrine of justification by faith. His discovery launched the Reformation and put an end to the Dark Ages. What Luther came to realize is that God’s righteousness, revealed in the gospel, is reckoned in full to the account of everyone who turns to Christ in repentant faith. God’s own righteousness thus becomes the ground on which believers stand before him (196).
Justification may be defined as an act of God whereby he imputes to a believing sinner the full and perfect righteousness of Christ, forgiving the sinner of all unrighteousness, declaring him or her perfectly righteous in God’s sight, thus delivering the believer from all condemnation (197)
There are two serious errors to avoid in the matter of justification. First, do not confuse justification with sanctification. Roman Catholic theology makes this error. Sanctification is the work of God whereby he sets the believer apart from sin. Sanctification is a practical reality, not simply a legal declaration. Sanctification involves a change in the sinner’s character, not just a new standing before God. By including sanctification as an aspect of justification, Catholic theology renders instantaneous justification impossible. Worse, this view substitutes the believer’s own imperfect righteousness in place of Christ’s unblemished righteousness, as the basis of justification (197-98).
The cornerstone of justification is the reckoning of righteousness to the believer’s account. This is the truth that sets Christian doctrine apart from every form of false religion. We call it “imputed righteousness.” Apart from it, salvation is utterly impossible (198).
Imputed righteousness solves the dilemma. Christ made atonement by shedding his own blood on the cross. That provides forgiveness. And just as our sins were put to his account when he bore them on the cross, so now his righteousness is reckoned as our own. His perfect righteousness thus becomes the ground on which we stand before God.
This is a crucial point on which Protestants have historically been in full agreement: sinners are not justified because of some good thing in them; God can declare them righteous because he first imputes to them the perfect righteousness of Christ. We stand before God as if we were perfectly just. Judicially, the Father views us as if our righteousness were on the same lofty plane as his Son’s!
Again, this is owing to no good thing in us—not even God’s sanctifying or regenerating work in our hearts. Justification is possible exclusively through the imputed righteousness of Christ: “To the one who does not work, but believes in him who justifies the ungodly,_ his faith is reckoned as righteousness_” (Rom. 4:5, emphasis added). “Those who receive the abundance of grace and of _the gift of righteousness _will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ” (5:17, emphasis added). “Through the obedience of the One the many will be made [declared] righteous” (v. 19). “Now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been manifested, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, _even the righteousness of God through faith in Jesus Christ for all those who believe_” (3:22, emphasis added). “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, that we might become the righteousness of God in Him” (2 Cor. 5:21). “Not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, _the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith_” (Phil. 3:9, emphasis added) (199).
God through his grace imputes to believers the righteousness of Christ (vv. 21–24). On that basis alone they can stand before him (205).​
Much of Sawyer's argumentation is based on a position that MacArthur now refutes, and has for many years. For clarity, Sawyer is right, such teaching is wrong and needed to be addressed. But quoting a current edition would be helpful and avoid added polarity, which he claims to be attempting to resolve.

There is a very real problem within the Lordship camp of harsh judgmentalism. I think Sawyer is attempting to deal with it. I've seen it, and lived it. It's brutal and, as he states, offers no hope. It flings sin in the face without offering any comfort in Christ. One has basically shamed the Savior they claim and is an outcast as a result. There is much we can learn from this. And, there is probably a sense in which his perception of MacArthur's first book is accurate. But, though this element still exists among some who are of similar vein, this is not what MacArthur teaches. And if you have seen him minister to souls you would know this.

Another aspect that is neglected, though discussed to a certain degree in his treatment of Hodges, is that the alternative to Lordship salvation is easy believism, a form of antinomianism. He doesn't want the polarity, but there it is. Again, there is no middle ground. One cannot love the world and love Christ too. One cannot serve Balial and Jesus. One is either a resident or an ambassador. There is no escaping it. For those who claim Christ, Jesus is Lord of your life or you have added Him to your list of gods. If you rely on your profession without a possession reflected in your walk then you merely have an insurance policy that you'll never be able to cash in. Assurance only comes through Christ as we strive to walk worthy of our calling. But we must be sensitive. One who is struggling exhibits fruit of the spirit, while one who is succumbing does not. The question then is, "Are you engaging in the battle?" Christ is the only one who can give us the strength to overcome. And those of Christ will engage. Do we die to self, or seek to save our own lives? To point someone in any other direction is to give them a false sense of security.

Blessings,


----------



## wendy

Chippy said:


> Maybe pastors like Washer ought not only to challenge individuals but also the churches and denominations themselves.


 He does challenge denominations, especially the one he has been affiliated with (SBC). I stumbled across his sermons about three years ago and have listened fairly regularly ever since because they are convicting and convey a passion for Jesus Christ.

For those who want a broad perspective of what Paul Washer's preaching is like, and do not have hours and hours to listen to the 300 or so sermons on sermonaudio.com, check out the video selections on illbehonest.com. They are a bit dramatic, as the site has edited them for impact, but they represent some of times he has spoken powerful, by God's grace.

in my opinion, he is an outstanding preacher today simply because he comes across as someone who has spent much time with God before getting into the pulpit. He speaks the truth he has experienced/scriptures he's had worked into his heart and it comes across with authority. On a broad scale across churches in America, this seems unusual, that a man is a man of God before he is a church leader, but it shouldn't necessarily be that way.

Recently I listened to this series and the first four sermons give a pretty good "taste" for how he preaches the Gospel and some of the implications it has on the Christian's life. The Q&A also gives some more personal info on his early Christian years.

SermonAudio.com - Come to Me - Isaiah 55 (True Disciple Conference 1 of 8) www.sbaoc.org

SermonAudio.com - Regeneration - Ezekiel 36 (True Disciple Conference 2 of 8) www.sbaoc.org

SermonAudio.com - Ministry & Your Prayer Life - Mark 1:29-37 (True Disciple Conference 3 of 8) www.sbaoc.org

SermonAudio.com - Question & Answer Session (True Disciple Conference 4 of 8) www.sbaoc.org


----------



## BradyC

CharlieJ said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Our assurance is found in Christ and the verity of His Word reflected in our daily lives. As Christ said, you will know them by their fruit. There are no fence sitters in the Kingdom of God. This is what Washer and MacArthur, among others, teach; and this in the face of the insurance policy offered by so many preaching salesmen.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Joe,
> 
> I have some disagreements with MacArthur's approach to assurance of salvation and with the general ethos of the doctrines that are commonly termed "lordship salvation." I am not alone in my disagreement. I will, however, direct away from myself and to better men. For anyone who wishes to look into the matter further, I will suggest a small, medium, and large.
> 
> Small - "Some Thoughts on Lordship Salvation" by James Sawyer
> Bible.org: Some Thoughts on Lordship Salvation
> 
> "Reflections on Christian Assurance" by D.A. Carson
> http://www.sgc.org/resources/ReflectionsonAssurance.pdf
> 
> Medium - _Christ the Lord: The Reformation and Lordship Salvation_, edited by Michael Horton. I highly recommend this book, as it shows a number of Reformed men (Robert Strimple, Kim Riddlebarger, etc.) have concerns about both the Hodges style easy-believism and MacArthur's presentation of issues such as justification, faith-works relationship, etc. I believe the authors have captured the authentic Reformation spirit and shown where MacArthur and Hodges deviate from it (Hodges much more, of course.)
> 
> Large - _Assurance of Faith_ by Joel Beeke. This is a more readable version of his doctoral dissertation, following the development of the doctrine of assurance from Calvin through the Puritans. Beeke affirms the practical syllogism, but I believe that the entire framework of his theology has a balance which some contemporaries lack.
Click to expand...


Thank you so much for the links Charlie. I have read Beeke's work and it really helped me in a time of need (I am one who really struggles with issues like assurance, doubt and feelings of despair). I just read the article by James Sawyer...absolutely phenomenal.

In Christ,
Brady


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## Wannabee

For those looking for assurance...
[video=youtube;yK0wks-0DGc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yK0wks-0DGc&feature=related[/video]


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## Gesetveemet

Joshua said:


> I'll save you all my horrendous verbiage and just express my sentiments vicariously through Rev. Winzer's words from a previous post in a previous thread:
> 
> 
> armourbearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate what he does in the context he does it in; but I hope everyone understands that a minister cannot address his congregation like this week in/week out. Where there is faithful exposition and application week in/week out, this sort of confrontational preaching should not be necessary. Faithful biblical preaching founds Christian responsility on divine soveriengty, Christian service on divine grace, and therefore always includes the element of doxology. I hope the brethren on this list who extol Mr. Washer's sermons have carefully discerned that this element seems to be obscured. I would also caution people to beware of the medieval whip, whereby Christians gain some sort of psychological satisfaction from the pain of being awakened to their sins because conviction makes them feel spiritually alive. But I reiterate, I appreciate what Mr. Washer does in the context he does it in. Blessings!
Click to expand...


Paul Washer is an itinerant preacher and does no have his own congregation.


I personally have no need to hear preaching over the internet.*edited


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## Matthias

Gesetveemet said:


> Joshua said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'll save you all my horrendous verbiage and just express my sentiments vicariously through Rev. Winzer's words from a previous post in a previous thread:
> 
> 
> armourbearer said:
> 
> 
> 
> I appreciate what he does in the context he does it in; but I hope everyone understands that a minister cannot address his congregation like this week in/week out. Where there is faithful exposition and application week in/week out, this sort of confrontational preaching should not be necessary. Faithful biblical preaching founds Christian responsility on divine soveriengty, Christian service on divine grace, and therefore always includes the element of doxology. I hope the brethren on this list who extol Mr. Washer's sermons have carefully discerned that this element seems to be obscured. I would also caution people to beware of the medieval whip, whereby Christians gain some sort of psychological satisfaction from the pain of being awakened to their sins because conviction makes them feel spiritually alive. But I reiterate, I appreciate what Mr. Washer does in the context he does it in. Blessings!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Paul Washer is an itinerant preacher and does no have his own congregation.
> I personally have no need to hear preaching over the internet.
Click to expand...


No need?? God has seen fit to Bless us with the ability to hear from not only our own local preachers, but great and godly preachers from all over the world living and dead through the internet. I am surprised that anyone would feel they have no need or desire to take advantage of such an amazing gift! I truly feel you are missing out...


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## Berean

Gesetveemet said:


> I personally have no need to hear preaching over the internet.



I do. I think it's an amazing resource we have access to in these times.


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## Knoxienne

Berean said:


> Gesetveemet said:
> 
> 
> 
> I personally have no need to hear preaching over the internet.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I do. I think it's an amazing resource we have access to in these times.
Click to expand...


Amen. I agree. I am an internet preaching affictionata. Okay, I'm a Sermonaudio junkie.


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## SemperEruditio

ReformedChapin said:


> I do have to admit I was impressed with his sermon in spanish. He did an excellent job for a white guy.



He did an excellent job, period.


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## Gesetveemet

Matthias;616683.[/QUOTE said:


> No need?? God has seen fit to Bless us with the ability to hear from not only our own local preachers, but great and godly preachers from all over the world living and dead through the internet. I am surprised that anyone would feel they have no need or desire to take advantage of such an amazing gift! I truly feel you are missing out...



Jeff, 

The Lord has used many preachers through internet at different times in my life according to His providence and for that I am grateful. It’s just that at present time He has placed me in a church where He still gives His blessed gospel. Oh how I hope that He will press His precious word into my heart that I may be changed thereby. Sorry I did not explain better.


.


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## ReformedWretch

> I would hope he does not preach to a congregation week after week the way he does in all of his videos on YouTube (where it seems address people like they are all unregenerate). If so, I imagine his sheep are constantly living in doubt and despair.



Really?

I love the preaching against sin because it awakens me to my constant need of God and Christ. I am reminded that I am NOTHING and God is everything. I am awakened to flee the world by delving into the Word so that I may honor the god that saved me from my own horrid wickedness. I am reminded that when I witness I witness to dead people and unless God awakens them I should expect a hostile reaction and to not expect any "method" to do the job but instead try to express mans guilt to them and how they may then be redeemed and leave the rest to God.

I love hard, toe tramping preaching because I need it, I believe you need it, I believe we ALL need it and the reason many are turned off by it is because they do not want to remember what they we're and who deserves all the glory of every waking moment. That they don't want to always, daily, hourly, know that they are low and only God is high, to be reminded that they deserve NOTHING and drawing breath hour by hour is a blessing from God.

Oh the despair I would be in if not for Christ, and thank God for preaching like Paul Washers that frequently reminds me of it, and not of the wonderful things God has in store for me, how awesome Heaven is going to be, or what my job in Heaven might be, etc. etc. All I need to know to know that God loves me and assures me of my salvation is to know and remember what I once was, and what I would be if not for Jesus Christ. There is my motivation, NOT for despair, but for a passion and desire to fall on my knees before a Holy God that would save a wretch like me and seek to do His will.

I love the confessions as well, but they have never caused me to feel this way.


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## unlearnedlearner

ReformedChapin said:


> Wannabee said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh wait, are you saying that calling people names is better than reasoning with them? Were both calvinist so we both agree that our methods aren't what causes a person to change it's God. However, Id prefer an intellectual discussion or debate over ad hominims any day.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How people arrive at this sort of conclusion from Scriptures is unsettling. They are basically putting themselves above the Lord, the Apostle Paul, and the man in their own signature all in the name of being "intellectual".
> 
> Also, I think the abstract preaching that chapin references in a later point is exactly why there is no power in most preaching. A good study of Acts shows that the Gospel is always applied and not treated in abstract "intellectual" categories. There is very little weight in most preaching, b/c it is abstract & treated like a systematic theology. Mr. Washer comes along and says, "you must repent..." and we say he is attacking men and isn't intellectual enough for our refined tastes & that we are too intellectual for that.
> 
> I know little to nothing of Mr Washer, but for many it just doesn't matter if you come eating and drinking or fasting.
> 
> Actually, I did hear a quote from Mr Washer that I believes best sums this up - "The worst thing that could ever happen to a preacher is that he becomes civilized. It's WORTHLESS! Worthless! One thing I noticed about Leonard Ravenhill - _and I'd take 1 Leonard Ravenhill over 11 dead Calvinists_ - was that he was dangerous. He was dangerous."
Click to expand...


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## ewenlin

put Paul against most of the silly "your best life now" and modern decisionism evangelical preachers wouldn't everyone choose Paul every other day?

stop pitting him against the ideal and stop nip picking on single sentences he says... 
here is a man faithfully following the Lord and preaching the gospel wherever he can


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## WaywardNowHome

God used this man to save my life. If it wasn't for his style of preaching, I wouldn't have been shocked into life. Praise God for men like him.

_EDIT: I'm not saying that Washer saved me and I'm not saying that his preaching style saved me. I hope whoever reads this post understands what I'm saying here. _


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## Knoxienne

WaywardNowHome said:


> God used this man to save my life. If it wasn't for his style of preaching, I wouldn't have been shocked into life. Praise God for men like him.
> 
> _EDIT: I'm not saying that Washer saved me and I'm not saying that his preaching style saved me. I hope whoever reads this post understands what I'm saying here. _



Absolutely. I think we've all heard preachers who have had that effect on us.

-----Added 5/14/2009 at 05:31:28 EST-----



unlearnedlearner said:


> Also, I think the abstract preaching that chapin references in a later point is exactly why there is no power in most preaching. A good study of Acts shows that the Gospel is always applied and not treated in abstract "intellectual" categories. There is very little weight in most preaching, b/c it is abstract & treated like a systematic theology. Mr. Washer comes along and says, "you must repent..." and we say he is attacking men and isn't intellectual enough for our refined tastes & that we are too intellectual for that.



 I like what Pastor John Weaver says - theology that isn't applied is useless.


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## OPC'n

I like most of what Paul has to say but he does get a little too emotional (I'm sure this is true emotion), but it make me feel uncomfortable for him....which I'm sure is just my problem. I think a balance in emotion during any worship service should be sought. I'm more on the ridge side so....


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## Exiled_2_God

He's an anointed preacher. I first heard him when beginning to turn from my Arminian ways (watched on youtube). The way he presented the gospel clicked with me. I thought, "that is what I want to hear; that is what I've been searching for." Unfortunately, I was in churches that didn't preach that way, yet the culture of the churches was that everything was alright, "we're all Christians," etc. I had to step back and wonder if it was me who was really off base... Gladly the Lord was gracious enough to open my eyes to many things, and it's been a great journey!

I loved his 2 hour sermon on "The 10 Indictments Against the Modern Church."


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## rpavich

Ok..time for my  


I like PW's preaching.

I know that he doesn't get the notoriety for the more "calm" sermons that he does for the fiery ones that get passed around the 'net, but he does preach "straight" also.

I had a theory that has been proved out on this thread and this is it:

Paul Washer; love him or hate him...nobody is neutral


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## Denton Elliott

TranZ4MR said:


> He's good....too bad he isn't Presbyterian!



Yeah I believe Washer has stated, "Infant Baptism is the golden calf of the reformation."

I love the guy though...true heart for God's glory and souls.


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## Ivan

Re4mdant said:


> We are in luck over here, at the 14-15 of July we get to host Paul Washer at a school building, were he will talk to a small group the first day, about church-plant and things like that.
> The second day we will invite as many people as possible to come hear him preach.
> 
> So now I would like to know...
> What are your opinions about Paul Washer?
> and maybe some comments on why.



So how did it go?


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## AThornquist

Exiled_2_God said:


> I loved his 2 hour sermon on "The 10 Indictments Against the Modern Church."



Indeed! Wasn't that fantastic?


Yeah Martin, how did it go??? I totally forgot about it.


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## Damon Rambo

I love brother Paul. What's not to love? Passion, zeal for the lost. HEAVILY reformed (a five point Calvinist that also openly mocks "Left Behind" eschatology). Southern Baptist. Expositional.

Again, whats not to love? The people on here that talk about him pointing fingers...you do realize that EVERY prophet and evangelist of God in the bible did this, right?


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## Grillsy

Damon Rambo said:


> I love brother Paul. What's not to love? Passion, zeal for the lost. HEAVILY reformed (a five point Calvinist that also openly mocks "Left Behind" eschatology). Southern Baptist. Expositional.
> 
> Again, whats not to love? The people on here that talk about him pointing fingers...you do realize that EVERY prophet and evangelist of God in the bible did this, right?



I wouldn't consider him "HEAVILY" Reformed especially considering the fact that he won't use the term Calvinist. He says prefers to be a called a five point Spurgeonist. Remember there is much more to being Reformed than being a five-pointer.


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## ewenlin

Ivan said:


> Re4mdant said:
> 
> 
> 
> We are in luck over here, at the 14-15 of July we get to host Paul Washer at a school building, were he will talk to a small group the first day, about church-plant and things like that.
> The second day we will invite as many people as possible to come hear him preach.
> 
> So now I would like to know...
> What are your opinions about Paul Washer?
> and maybe some comments on why.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So how did it go?
Click to expand...


Interested to know too..


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## Damon Rambo

Grillsy said:


> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> 
> I love brother Paul. What's not to love? Passion, zeal for the lost. HEAVILY reformed (a five point Calvinist that also openly mocks "Left Behind" eschatology). Southern Baptist. Expositional.
> 
> Again, whats not to love? The people on here that talk about him pointing fingers...you do realize that EVERY prophet and evangelist of God in the bible did this, right?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I wouldn't consider him "HEAVILY" Reformed especially considering the fact that he won't use the term Calvinist. He says prefers to be a called a five point Spurgeonist. Remember there is much more to being Reformed than being a five-pointer.
Click to expand...


I understand that. But the doctrines of Grace are certainly the preeminent requirement. Washer is a five point, Covenant theologian. He has a reformed soteriology and a reformed eschatology. When speaking in terms of Baptists (of which I am one), you can't get much more reformed than that. 

Baptists that DO get more reformed than that, are called "Presbyterians".


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## Exiled_2_God

Damon Rambo said:


> Grillsy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that. But the doctrines of Grace are certainly the preeminent requirement. Washer is a five point, *Covenant theologian*. He has a reformed soteriology and a *reformed eschatology*. When speaking in terms of Baptists (of which I am one), you can't get much more reformed than that.
> 
> Baptists that DO get more reformed than that, are called "Presbyterians".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> curious... Where have you seen or heard him say that he is a CT guy... and a reformed eschatology guy?
Click to expand...


----------



## Damon Rambo

Exiled_2_God said:


> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Grillsy said:
> 
> 
> 
> I understand that. But the doctrines of Grace are certainly the preeminent requirement. Washer is a five point, *Covenant theologian*. He has a reformed soteriology and a *reformed eschatology*. When speaking in terms of Baptists (of which I am one), you can't get much more reformed than that.
> 
> Baptists that DO get more reformed than that, are called "Presbyterians".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> curious... Where have you seen or heard him say that he is a CT guy... and a reformed eschatology guy?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> It was one of his sermons. He was mocking the "Left Behind" books, spoke of the unbiblical nature of some secret pre trib rapture, slammed dispensationalism in general.... I will see if I can find it.
Click to expand...


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## Exiled_2_God

Damon Rambo said:


> Exiled_2_God said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Damon Rambo said:
> 
> 
> 
> curious... Where have you seen or heard him say that he is a CT guy... and a reformed eschatology guy?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> It was one of his sermons. He was mocking the "Left Behind" books, spoke of the unbiblical nature of some secret pre trib rapture, slammed dispensationalism in general.... I will see if I can find it.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Yeah, I would love to reference it. I was curious as to where he stood on the issue. I've heard his "I'm a 5 points Spurgeonist" comment in his "10 Indictments Against the Modern Church"...
> 
> I heard a story from a friend that went to a conference Washer was speaking at... the friend said that a guy walked up and asked Washer what his stance is on the end times, his eschatology. Washer replied, as he shook the man's hand, "brother, I've barely wrapped my mind around the gospel." Interesting answer.
Click to expand...


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## AThornquist

Having some firm sources on if he is CT would be good. I haven't heard him say anything about whether the 10 Commandments are in effect or not; so, as far as I know, he may be NCT.


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## Romans922

See http://www.puritanboard.com/f77/fv-john-piper-doug-wilson-Paul-washer-51186/#post660052


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## Exiled_2_God

Romans922 said:


> See http://www.puritanboard.com/f77/fv-john-piper-doug-wilson-Paul-washer-51186/#post660052



ha, they seem to know where Washer stands... I just want to hear it from Washer.


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## dbh

Washer is a talented speaker. Very forceful. If passion/emotion = unction/anointing then he has it. Like some of what he says but not how he says it - seems to be trying too hard, not natural. God is every man's judge.


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## Kevin

in my opinion...

Paul Washer is to ex-fundies what Mark Discoll is to ex-pagans.


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## William Price

It was Paul Washer whom God used to open my eyes to my sins. Through his obedience to the call of preaching the Gospel that I saw my state, by the grace of God Him opening my eyes.


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## jrdnoland

Paul Washer is a good Southern Baptist preacher. I would encourage all to listen through his 1st John series, it really forced me to examine my life. God has used him to minister to me and my wife; we even based a Sunday School lesson on the outline from his 1st John series.


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## Exiled_2_God

AThornquist said:


> Having some firm sources on if he is CT would be good. *I haven't heard him say anything about whether the 10 Commandments are in effect or not*; so, as far as I know, he may be NCT.




Are they??


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## Andres

Just curious what everyone thinks about what Washer had to say about Facebook and being online. 



> “I’ll tell you this right now, some of you need to get out of Facebook, you need to get off-line, you need to quit playing with people and talking and writing little things like you were a little girl. You need to become a man and you need to start doing things that men of God do. It’s very important.”



Be A Man


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## jrdnoland

Andres said:


> Just curious what everyone thinks about what Washer had to say about Facebook and being online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I’ll tell you this right now, some of you need to get out of Facebook, you need to get off-line, you need to quit playing with people and talking and writing little things like you were a little girl. You need to become a man and you need to start doing things that men of God do. It’s very important.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be A Man
Click to expand...


If you are using Facebook as a social outlet or a way to "mess" with people then I would agree. If you are using it (or anything else) to the glory of God then I would disagree. My wife uses facebook and she's always trying to interject Godly themes into it.


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## William Price

Andres said:


> Just curious what everyone thinks about what Washer had to say about Facebook and being online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I’ll tell you this right now, some of you need to get out of Facebook, you need to get off-line, you need to quit playing with people and talking and writing little things like you were a little girl. You need to become a man and you need to start doing things that men of God do. It’s very important.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be A Man
Click to expand...


Many use Facebook and just waste time. Paul is admonishing those who are godly men to use all they have for the Kingdom.


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## Exiled_2_God

jrdnoland said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> 
> Just curious what everyone thinks about what Washer had to say about Facebook and being online.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> “I’ll tell you this right now, some of you need to get out of Facebook, you need to get off-line, you need to quit playing with people and talking and writing little things like you were a little girl. You need to become a man and you need to start doing things that men of God do. It’s very important.”
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Be A Man
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> If you are using Facebook as a social outlet or a way to "mess" with people then I would agree. If you are using it (or anything else) to the glory of God then I would disagree. My wife uses facebook and she's always trying to interject Godly themes into it.
Click to expand...


I believe Washer's point is that many people waste much of their life doing piddly things, just as a social utility can waste much of a person's day (or life)... though, his comment was NOT a blanket comment to all people that they should never get on facebook. Washer is on Twitter by the way, so it's not a legalistic stance against "social utilities" but rather a side point to his discussion. I've witnessed to many atheists via facebook... though at times I've certainly wasted time (surfing, etc) on facebook and myspace... but I've made amends to not waste my time on these in the future. I go on from time to time but it can be days between visits. If I do, it is to answer a message, sell/buy an item, send a message, catch up with a friend, etc... it is purposeful as opposed to a black hole of time spent looking at peoples profiles, clubs, etc...


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## tlharvey7

Paul Washer yells alot.... i like...LOVE! preachers that yell alot
it seems that alot of us are here because of the influence of his messages.
present company included


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## charliejunfan

Ok, Ok I was too hard on the guy, he has helped my walk greatly 

I RECANT!!!


(see my earlier posts as to why I am saying this now...)


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## Osage Bluestem

Paul Washer is a great preacher. I agree with him soteriologically.


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## Radical_Pilgrim

He is on the short list of modern day preachers I listen to including him, Piper, Driscoll, Harris and a few others..


----------

