# Non-Reformed Evangelical Views on Justification



## Puritanhead (Sep 28, 2005)

*Are there any nominally evangelical non-Reformed denominations out there that echo Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox dogma in affirming that justification constitutes an infusion of righteousness?* 

Just curious. Probably, most simply neglect teaching or don't comprehend the vitality of the doctrine.


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## Poimen (Sep 28, 2005)

The Second Head of Doctrine of the Canons of Dordrecht tell us about the Arminian view of justification:



> Paragraph 4
> 
> Who teach: That the new covenant of grace, which God the Father, through the mediation of the death of Christ, made with man, does not herein consist that we by faith, inasmuch as it accepts the merits of Christ, are justified before God and saved, but in the fact that God, having revoked the demand of perfect obedience of faith, regards faith itself and the obedience of faith, although imperfect, as the perfect obedience of the law, and does esteem it worthy of the reward of eternal life through grace.
> 
> For these contradict the Scriptures: Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus; whom God set forth to be a propitiation, through faith, in his blood (Rom. 3:24, 25). And these proclaim, as did the wicked Socinus, a new and strange justification of man before God, against the consensus of the whole Church.



Basically we are justified *because* of faith since Christ has died for the sins of everyone in the world we are all (initially) justified. So in the Arminian sense our faith becomes our justification! 

As for other groups, I don't know how orthodox they are. Yet when I sing Wesleyan hymns I often wonder to myself "Is he a closet Calvinist?"


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## Puritanhead (Sep 28, 2005)

Arminianism is just Romanism stripped of its sacramental and liturgical excesses.

Thanks Poimen-- I wasn't thinking of perusing that the time nor was it fresh on my memory.


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

The entire division of justification and sanctification into two different themes"”the former said to occur instantly, and the latter being a life-long process"”is of relatively recent origin in the history of the Church. It was only in the first era of the Reformation, as the eminent Protestant scholar Allister McGrath points out, that 




> "A deliberate and systematic distinction is made between the concept of justification itself (understood as the extrinsic divine pronouncement of man´s new status) and the concept of sanctification or regeneration (understood as the intrinsic process by which God renews the justified sinner)."
> 
> "The significance of the Protestant distinction between iustificatio and regeneratio is that a fundamental discontinuity has been introduced into the western theological tradition where none had existed before"¦The Reformation understanding of the nature of justification "“ as opposed to its mode "“ must therefore be regarded as a genuine theological novum "
> 
> McGrath, Alister E., Iustitia Dei: A History of the Christian Doctrine of Justification-Vol. 1. Cambridge University Press, 1986, p. 182, 184, 186-187.



[Edited on 9-29-2005 by Saiph]


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

And even Luther, while defending Justification by faith alone did not deny any sense of infusion which is near the concept of theosis.

In his commentary on Galatians 3:9, Luther unequivocally states that "The one who has faith is a completely divine man, a Son of God, the inheritor of the universe. He is the victor over the world, sin, death, and the devil" 

Pelikan, Jaroslav (ed.), Luther´s Works, Lectures on Galatians, 1535, Vol. 26, Concordia Publishing House, 1963, p. 247


It is in Luther´s Dictata super Psalterium, the scholion on Psalm 117 (118):12, Luther writes concerning the Christian: "On account of faith in Christ who dwells in him, he is God, the Son of God and infinite (est deus, dei filius et infinitus), for God already is in him." 
And "In the commentary on Psalm 84 (85) Luther speaks of a "˜mystical incarnation of Christ´ in the "˜new people of faith´" and that "he uses an image strongly associated with deification/theosis. The righteousness of Christ looking down from heaven actually elevates believers by "˜making them heavenly´ (coelestus): "˜Therefore Christ came to the earth so that we might be elevated to heaven.´" 

So what we term sanctification includes some infusion of righteousness, for Christ even called us to seek first the kingdom and His righteousness. Is that passage speaking of forensic justification or practical holiness ? ?


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

Keep in mind here I am NOT saying we will stand before God on the basis of any righteousness of our own, but only that of Christ, and that, as it has been lived through us existentially. Otherwise how would "OUR" works be judged at all ? ?


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

Then there's the Mennonite/Amish etc. Not sure what their concept of justification is but it ain't ours. Lady Flynt might be able to provide first-hand evidence. They are the last of the formal Anabaptists.


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

"Keep in mind here I am NOT saying we will stand before God on the basis of any righteousness of our own, but only that of Christ, and that, as it has been lived through us existentially. Otherwise how would "OUR" works be judged at all ? ?"


Mark,
Is this some kind of "exchanged life"?

[Edited on 9-29-2005 by turmeric]


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

> Is this some kind of "exchanged life"?




Well, I do not know what that means.


II Corinthians 5:21 

For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. 

2Pe 3:17,18

You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability. But grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To him be the glory both now and to the day of eternity. Amen. 

Our reconciliation to God is only through Jesus Christ, and for the sake of his merit: on him therefore we must rely, and make mention of his righteousness and his only. Yet, does not He give us the liberty to now obey and walk righteously ? If not then we will be in danger of the antinomianism that Peter warns.


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

The question isn't whether we should live righteously or not, the question is how. You're talking about becoming divine, celestial; does Luther just mean holy? Why doesn't he just say so? Theosis?


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## Larry Hughes (Sep 28, 2005)

The Heidelberg Disputation Thesis 1:

The law of God, the most salutary doctrine of life, cannot advance man on his way to righteousness, but rather hinders him. 

This is made clear by the Apostle in his letter to the Romans (3[:21]): "But now the righteousness of God has been manifested apart from the law." St. Augustine interprets this in his book, The Spirit and the Letter (De Spiritu et Littera): "Without the law, that is, without its support." In Rom. 5[:20] the Apostle states, "Law intervened, to increase the trespass," and in Rom. 7[:9] he adds, "But when the commandment came, sin revived." For this reason he calls the law a law of death and a law of sin in Rom. 8[:2]. Indeed, in 2 Cor. 3[:6] he says, "the written code kills," which St. Augustine throughout his book, The Spirit and the Letter, understands as applying to every law, even the holiest law of God.

Luther's proof, Thesis 2:

Much less can human works which are done over and over again with the aid of natural precepts, so to speak, lead to that end. 

Since the law of God, which is holy and unstained, true, just, etc. is given man by God as an aid beyond his natural powers to enlighten him and move him to do the good, and nevertheless the opposite takes place, namely, that he becomes more wicked, how can he, left to his own power and without such aid, be induced to do good? If a person does not do good with help from without, he will do even less by his own strength. Therefore the Apostle, in Rom. 3[:10-12], calls all persons corrupt and impotent who neither understand nor seek God, for all, he says, have gone astray.

If works performed under the revealed law of God cannot advance man toward righteousness, less so can natural powers under moral law. There is no righteousness to be found within. The claim of natural theology is that by powers of reason and observation, man's mind can rise to an elementary knowledge of God, of the freedom and morality of the human soul, and of the basic demands of morality. Natural theology thus finds sole reliance on reason. The speculations of Plato, Aristotle, and other ancient philosophers about a transcendent, divine being are examples of natural theology. This theology found particular popularity in the Middle Ages. Thomas Aquinas was a notable defender of the theology in his Five Ways of Preaching the Existence of God.

Luther's proof, Thesis 16:

The person who believes that he can obtain grace by doing what is in him adds sin to sin so that he becomes doubly guilty. 

On the basis of what has been said, the following is clear: While a person is doing what is in him, he sins and seeks himself in everything. But if he should suppose that through sin he would become worthy of or prepared for grace, he would add haughty arrogance to his sin and not believe that sin is sin and evil is evil, which is an exceedingly great sin. As Jer. 2[:13] says, "For my people have committed two evils: they have forsaken me, the fountain of living waters, and hewed out cisterns for themselves, broken cisterns, that can hold no water," that is, through sin they are far from me and yet they presume to do good by their own ability.
Now you ask, "What then shall we do? Shall we go our way with indifference because we can do nothing but sin?" I would reply, By no means. But, having heard this, fall down and pray for grace and place your hope in Christ in whom is our salvation, life, and resurrection. For this reason we are so instructed-for this reason the law makes us aware of sin so that, having recognized our sin, we may seek and receive grace. Thus God "gives grace to the humble" [1 Pet. 5:5], and "whoever humbles himself will be exalted" [Matt. 23:12]. The law humbles, grace exalts. The law effects fear and wrath, grace effects hope and mercy. "Through the law comes knowledge of sin" [Rom. 3:20], through knowledge of sin, however, comes humility, and through humility grace is acquired. Thus an action which is alien to God's nature results in a deed belonging to his very nature: he makes a person a sinner so that he may make him righteous.
That man is doubly guilty is illustrated by the passage from Jeremiah. We are guilty because, in our sin, we are separate from God (we have forsaken him, the fountain of living waters), and we add to our guilt when we presume to do good by our own ability (we hew out cisterns for ourselves, broken cisterns that can hold no water).

Twice damned, the theologian of glory sees only frustration and despair. The theologian of the cross, however, sees salvation, hope, and resurrection. How can this be? We look to the cross. With all of our own supports removed, there is nothing else to do but throw ourselves on the mercy of God in Christ. We obtain grace by humility (1 Pet. 5:5), and this humility is not a work of ourselves. We are humbled. Humility is always something done to us, and faith is the true humility.

Luther's proof, Thesis 23:

The law brings the wrath of God, kills, reviles, accuses, judges, and condemns everything that is not in Christ [Rom. 4:15]. 

Thus Gal. 3[:13] states, "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law;" and: "For all who rely on works of the law are under the curse" [Gal. 3:10]; and Rom. 4[:15]: "For the law brings wrath;" and Rom. 7[:10]: "The very commandment which promised life proved to be the death of me;" Rom. 2[:12]: "All who have sinned without the law will also perish without law." Therefore he who boasts that he is wise and learned in the law boasts in his confusion, his damnation, the wrath of God, in death. As Rom. 2[:23] puts it: "You who boast in the law."

The law does not work the love of God -- it works His wrath; it does not give life -- it kills; it does not bless -- it reviles; it does not comfort -- it accuses; it does not pardon -- it judges; it does not save -- it condemns. In our active efforts to strive to righteousness through our own works, we stray, ironically, farther from our goal. Only in passive rest in Christ, through His grace, can we achieve it.

Luther's proof, Thesis 25:

He is not righteous who does much, but he who, without work, believes much in Christ. 

For the righteousness of God is not acquired by means of acts frequently repeated, as Aristotle taught, but it is imparted by faith, for "He who through faith is righteous shall live" (Rom. 1[:17]), and "Man believes with his heart and so is justified" (Rom. 10[:10]). Therefore I wish to have the words "without work" understood in the following manner: Not that the righteous person does nothing, but that his works do not make him righteous, rather that his righteousness creates works. For grace and faith are infused without our works. After they have been imparted the works follow. Thus Rom. 3[:20] states, "No human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law," and, "For we hold that man is justified by faith apart from works of law" (Rom. 3[:28]). In other words, works contribute nothing to justification. Therefore man knows that works which he does by such faith are not his but God's. For this reason he does not seek to become justified or glorified through them, but seeks God. His justification by faith in Christ is sufficient to him. Christ is his wisdom, righteousness, etc., as 1 Cor. 1[:30] has it, that he himself may be Christ's action and instrument.

In his Operationes in Psalmos, Luther wrote:

Wherever the holy scriptures command good works to be done, understand that it forbids you to do any good work by yourself, because you cannot; but to keep a holy Sabbath unto God, that is, a rest from all your works, and that you become dead and buried and permit God to work in you."

"But to the one who does not work, but believes in Him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is credited as righteousness." (Rom. 4:5)

[Edited on 9-29-2005 by Larry Hughes]


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## fredtgreco (Sep 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Saiph_
> Keep in mind here I am NOT saying we will stand before God on the basis of any righteousness of our own, but only that of Christ, and that, as it has been lived through us existentially. Otherwise how would "OUR" works be judged at all ? ?



What does this mean?


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

I wholeheartedly agree Larry.


Now,


What is placed into us that causes regeneration ? 

What part of us is regenerated ?

Is it in any sense "US" that is truly regenerate ?


Rom 2:12-16

For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law. For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified. *For when Gentiles, who do not have the law, by nature do what the law requires,* they are a law to themselves, even though they do not have the law. *They show that the work of the law is written on their hearts, while their conscience also bears witness, *and their conflicting thoughts accuse or even excuse them on that day when, according to my gospel, God judges the secrets of men by Christ Jesus. 

If I place a teabag into boiling water the water becomes infused with tea.
Now, truly, the te and the water are seperate things, but we still call the new water tea, because the nature of the water has changed dramatically, not the nature of the tea.


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

Fred,

Our works will be judged. Whatever is worthless will be cast into the fire, and whatever is righteous, will be rewarded. Yet, none of us will hold up our rewards as, "Everybody look what I did !" Will they ? More likely, I think they will say, "Thanks be to God, For through the power of Christ IN me I was able to acomplish these things." And then we will give those rewards to Him in worship.



[Edited on 9-29-2005 by Saiph]


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

Could you answer Fred's question - I think that's what I was trying to ask. What do you think it means? Quoting Scripture won't help unless we know what you mean by it. I could quote it and mean the exact opposite of what you do.

Oops, didn't see your post, Mark, sorry!

[Edited on 9-29-2005 by turmeric]


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## Larry Hughes (Sep 28, 2005)

The works that are done in the Christian are not his own but God's, thus the works stand as God's only. Even the unbeliever does "good outward works" in fear of the Law or the natural law remaining on Adam, thus the Law, which is of God, and not the man performs the good in spite of the true fallen heart of man that would do other wise if the Law did not press him. In this way the an unbeliever's "good works" will bear witness against him for they are not his own. 

The believer trusts in Christ alone and knows the only good works done in and through him are God, thus instead of robbing God of His glory he glories in God knowing that God does these good works through him and in spite of himself. For himself he relies in Christ alone that is faith and the robbery of God's glory is removed since the Law can no longer engender fear of punishment or false religious hope of reward FOR THE GOOD WORK done as if the doer did it without vested interest.

Yes, we are regenerated unto life, but that regeneration is not the basis for justification or sanctification, but rather coming alive unto the reality of Christ and hence faith is engendered. Faith by definition is utterly self emptying else it is false faith. Regeneration or rebirth is as necessary as "let there be light" else nothing exists for faith to ensue. The Gospel call in the power of the Holy Spirit is a creative call into being that which before did not exist AT ALL.

[Edited on 9-29-2005 by Larry Hughes]


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## turmeric (Sep 28, 2005)

Thanks, that helps! I hadn't really thought that through-that even the unbeliever's "good works" motivated by slavish fear, are God's! Duh!


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## Saiph (Sep 28, 2005)

> The works that are done in the Christian are not his own but God's, thus the works stand as God's only. Even the unbeliever does "good outward works" in fear of the Law or the natural law remaining on Adam, thus the Law, which is of God, and not the man performs the good in spite of the true fallen heart of man that would do other wise if the Law did not press him. In this way the an unbeliever's "good works" will bear witness against him.



Right.


If I hold a magnet to a pice of iron the iron becomes magnetic.
Magnetism is then a shared property. I can say the the iron is magnetic. Yet, if I remove the magnet from the iron, it becomes merely iron again.


Eph 2:8-10

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a *result of works*, so that no one may boast. For we are his workmanship, *created in Christ Jesus for good works*, which God prepared beforehand, *that we should walk in them. *

The works are the RESULT of the grace. Not the cause.

We can call the cup of tea a cup of TEA because of the infusion, or influence of the dried leaves into the water.

Phi 2:12-13
Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, *work out your own salvation* with fear and trembling, *for it is God who works in you,* both to will and to work for his good pleasure. 

Col 1:29 

For this *I toil*, struggling with all *his energy* that *he powerfully works within me. *


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## Larry Hughes (Sep 29, 2005)

Magnetism is due to a dipolar orientation of the polar Fe molecule that has been solidified in a crystaline matrix. The solid crystal matrix "holds" the individual yet highly polarized Fe as a group of Fe molecules such that this creates the magnetic field (e.g. magnetite). At least without an outside induced current. Other Fe bearing minerals have a "chaotic" melange of individual polar Fe molecules, but because there is no sytematic polarization of the whole "batch" of Fe molecules no magnetic field is induced. 

In the example of iron and magnetism one can re-orient a non-magnetized Fe bearing mineral so that it becomes a self sustained inducer of magnetism without external support. Hence, self magnetized.

This is not the same with righteousness toward God. One becomes and is sustain as righteous purely upon imputation of an Alien righteousness. Never does one become righteous in the sight of God self standing or apart from Christ. Unlike the iron example, if it were possible for the believer, remove Christ and righteous is utterly removed.

The works as they are acceptable to God are a result of grace not just works rising from grace per se. That is the sweet exchange. E.g. I could before faith be an outward loving father and husband, many pagans are. Yet, according Romans 14 all is sinful in spite of its outward appearance. Even more, after coming to faith this same outward good work may not change much, however, in faith/trust in Christ alone, this same work is now accepted by God as good purely on account of Christ. 

E.g. #2 I've used before. There are two boys one an unbeliever the other a believer. They have a mutual neighbor who is elderly and sick. The unbeliever every single day takes care of the elderly gentleman's lawn, shops for food for him, cares for his house. The believer will not even mow his own father's yard without being threatened with grounding and at that begrudgingly. Question: Who's work is accepted in the eyes of God? Answer: The believer's. Does this bother you? If so, then you are stumbling over the stumbling stone.

Hence Luther says, "The Law says do this and nothing is done, but faith says believe this and all is already done."


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## pduggan (Oct 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Larry Hughes_
> The works that are done in the Christian are not his own but God's, thus the works stand as God's only.
> [Edited on 9-29-2005 by Larry Hughes]



Well, yes and no. God only crowns his own gifts, but the works are certainly not alien good works as in imputed righteousness and they are 'our own' enough that God can say "well done, good servant" not "well done, me"

Right?


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## pduggan (Oct 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Larry Hughes_E.g. #2 I've used before. There are two boys one an unbeliever the other a believer. They have a mutual neighbor who is elderly and sick. The unbeliever every single day takes care of the elderly gentleman's lawn, shops for food for him, cares for his house. The believer will not even mow his own father's yard without being threatened with grounding and at that begrudgingly. Question: Who's work is accepted in the eyes of God? Answer: The believer's. Does this bother you? If so, then you are stumbling over the stumbling stone.



That has the unfortunate feature of sounding exactly opposite to what Jesus says, which is that the one who says "I will do it" and doesn't is worse than the one who says "I won't do it" and does.

And in any case, what is good in the work of the believer to actually being accepted here? Begrudging labor under threat? What part of that is at all good? I would think that that "wood hay and stubble" would be burned up and not at all be rewarded by God, though he himself would be saved, though as by fire.

Not so someone who actually acted like the first son and also believed, of course.


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