# Paying for undergrad.



## TheocraticMonarchist (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm looking at attending Boyce college (SBTS) and then going on to a Reformed seminary for a M.Div.

Does anyone have any suggestions on how I could pay for my undergraduate degree?


(Sorry, my cost chart doesn't look a nice on the Pboard.)


Semester (15hrs) Year (2 Semesters) Total (4.5 Years).

Tuition:

(Tuition: $510 first 9 credit hrs. $440 for every one after that)

$7,230 $14,460 $65,070



Non-Tuition Expenses:

Room:

$1,075 $2150 $9,675

Food:

$850 $1700 $7,650

Books:

$500 $1,000 $4,500

Fees:

$235 $470 $2,115


Total Non-Tuition Expenses: $23,940

Total Expenses: *$89,010*

Other Expenses:

Annual gasoline Budget: $3120 

Annual Car insurance: $1400

Vehicle Maintenance: $300

Total Vehicle Yearly Expenses: $4820 4.5 yrs. = $21, 690





Total for Education +Living expenses *$110,700*
(Loan interest not included)



Potential income:

Yearly Part Time Job Income (?): +$ 4,000

Summer Job income (?): +$3,600

Possible annual income (?): +$7,600 4.5 yrs.= +$34,000

Possible Scholarship opportunity (???): 1500/semester 4.5yrs. = +$13,500



Loan Calculator (10,000 per Semester) 

Loan Balance: 
$10,000.00 

Adjusted Loan Balance: 
$10,000.00 

Loan Interest Rate: 
6.80%

Loan Fees: 
0.00%

Loan Term: 
10 years


Monthly Loan Payment:
$115.08 

Number of Payments: 
120


Cumulative Payments: 
$13,809.66 

Total Interest Paid: 
$3,809.66 


Note: The monthly loan payment was calculated at 119 payments of $115.08 plus a final payment of $115.14.

It is estimated that you will need an annual salary of at least $13,809.60 to be able to afford to repay this loan. This estimate assumes that 10% of your gross monthly income will be devoted to repaying your student loans. This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 0.7. If you use 15% of your gross monthly income to repay the loan, you will need an annual salary of only $9,206.40, but you may experience some financial difficulty.This corresponds to a debt-to-income ratio of 1.1.


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## biggandyy (Oct 14, 2008)

Become a lawyer instead?


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## smhbbag (Oct 14, 2008)

I know it is likely not to be what you want to hear, but I think one of these two options will help you significantly in the financial arena.

1) Attend community college for two years for very minimal tuition, getting most general education credits (English, Math, History, etc.) out of the way for $cheap.

and/or

2) Attend a cheaper undergrad school while still aiming for seminary after getting your BS/BA. Granted, I am relatively ignorant, but I am not sure that an undergrad degree in Biblical Studies will be overwhelmingly better preparing you for seminary than would a random BS/BA from a state school, while pursuing Biblical studies on the side or independently. 

I understand the desire to be around believers, and that may be well worth the extra costs to you for various reasons. But I'd recommend at least considering option 1 and/or 2.


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## Grace Alone (Oct 14, 2008)

How old are you Jonathan?

I 100% agree with taking the first two years at a community college (and keep working). Then consider an online distance program such as Liberty University (I know, I know, but they have a terrific distance program!). I think the courses are $750 each, so the last 60 hours (20 courses) would only be $15,000. You can still work and study whenever it is convenient. You could do undergrad for under $20,000 that way. Or you could do the whole thing through Liberty for maybe $35,000. I think it is almost crazy to pay $100,000 for an education that you could get for a quarter or third of the amount unless your family is well off, or if the degree you want is not available anywhere else.

I asked about your age because our son finished his degree through Liberty when he was 24, and because he was no longer considered our dependent, he got maximum grants and had no loans at all.


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## kvanlaan (Oct 14, 2008)

> I asked about your age because our son finished his degree through Liberty when he was 24, and because he was no longer considered our dependent, he got maximum grants and had no loans at all.



I was going to ask the same thing: why the rush? It doesn't hurt anything but one's own pride to work a couple of years and save up first. Also, when you are older and not considered a dependent, it can help. When you head into job interviews and they find that you had to finance things yourself and really had to work for it to make it happen, you will often see a good deal of respect shown for it, even though it may be your first job as a university grad.


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## VictorBravo (Oct 14, 2008)

I'm not really following your math. It looks to me like you, in best case scenario, will have a total of $47,500 to contribute to the more than $100k cost. That means, if you get loans for the rest, you will finance more than $53,000. Using that loan calculator, you end up with a monthly payment of close to $700 just for an undergraduate degree (and I'm guessing it would even be higher than that because interest rates are likely to go up within the next 4 years).

Sounds dicey to me. I agree with the others, go the community college route at first.


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## MOSES (Oct 14, 2008)

Go for a B.Div and skip the whole liberal arts "college" stuff...and while your at it, learn a good trade, that way, if you enter the ministry you can still support yourself in your trade, and preach the truth without having to worry about offending anyone and loosing your "ministry" job.

the Rev. Brian Abshire (RPC) has a great book that might really help you out at this stage in your life.
It is: "The Church as God's Armory"


Note: or, get a good trade first, establish yourself financially, and go to seminary part time for the B.div...A good trade can pay you between $20-$50 an hour...that is enough to pay for your seminary education with no problems with future debt.

Note: If my first born son wanted to go into ministry...I would not let him until he first learned a trade, and established himself in it.

Just my 2cents


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## Dwimble (Oct 14, 2008)

My view is not popular in the mainstream of America now, but I no longer get loans for ANYTHING. I'm against it. I'm trying to get my house paid off as fast as possible and then, God willing, I will never borrow a cent again.

Several years ago my wife and I read "Money, Possessions, and Eternity" by Randy Alcorn and then repented and turned a huge corner in our life. Our life is now one of giving and moderation, never living beyond our means, and saving for the future and for the things that we need or want. Dave Ramsey has quite a bit of wisdom in that area too, although there are some things about him and his system that I don't like.

In my opinion the best route you can take is to do no more than you can afford without borrowing your way there. Exercise patience, self-discipline, modesty, and so on. You have already been given some good suggestions to that end (local college, and the like). It is the world's philosophy that says you _must_ go to certain schools and finish as fast as possible, even if you have to make yourself a financial slave to do it.

I may sound like a zealot, but I think the BEST lesson you could learn for your future, beyond even college and seminary, would be to learn to live on only the money you have earned or have been given unsolicited from Christian brethren.


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## Grace Alone (Oct 14, 2008)

Michael, we came to similar conclusions several years ago. We save cash to buy cars and carry no debt. We paid our house off a couple of years ago, but do believe a modest mortgage is the way most people will become homeowners. I think it is a huge mistake in most cases for 22 year olds to come out of college with $50,000-$100,000 of debt.


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## Davidius (Oct 14, 2008)

Oh, _paying_.

Reactions: Funny 1


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 14, 2008)

smhbbag said:


> I know it is likely not to be what you want to hear, but I think one of these two options will help you significantly in the financial arena.
> 
> 1) Attend community college for two years for very minimal tuition, getting most general education credits (English, Math, History, etc.) out of the way for $cheap.
> 
> ...


I couldn't agree more. I had a full scholarship for 3 years of my undergrad but would never would recommend somebody go to my alma matter simply to get an Engineering degree (even though it's one of the better schools). Nobody really cares where you received your undergrad from. The issue is whether you are educated and then what you do with your degree. Some people think the school they go to is a ticket to prestige and success. This is simply not the case in life.


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## MLCOPE2 (Oct 14, 2008)

A couple things i have done to help allay the cost are 

1) Clep tests , these are (as the acronym suggests) college level examination program tests. What they allow you to do is pay a minimum amount, I think ~$50 a test, and test out of the basic general courses like com 101, College Alg., etc. that most lib. art colleges require. These are usually offered through local community colleges (another great idea) but you must make sure that your university of choice accepts these. 

2) Raise money through church fundraisers. I've found that congregations are often willing to help meet basic needs for anyone who needs help, especially those whom the church is sending forth to preach and teach God's Word. 

3) As everyone else has already said, Online Universities, they get a lot less credit than they are due. Look into one of those.

I don't know if I helped much but these are the things that I have done to help offset my tuition costs.


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## matt01 (Oct 14, 2008)

TheocraticMonarchist said:


> Semester (15hrs) Year (2 Semesters) Total (4.5 Years).
> 
> Tuition:
> 
> ...



Are you factoring in the tuition increase that is almost guarranteed to occur every year? Unless Boyce has a tuition lock, this is something you will want to consider.



smhbbag said:


> 1) Attend community college for two years for very minimal tuition, getting most general education credits (English, Math, History, etc.) out of the way for $cheap.



This is the best advice. There is little reason to be forking out what you are looking at, just to take the general education courses at Boyce. Going to a good community college will save you tons of money, and may even allow you to work on the courses quicker. I completed my B.A. and M.A. at private colleges, but am grateful for doing the majority of my general education courses at a community college.

Another suggestion would be to get rid of your car. With the money you are looking at paying to drive it, you would be better off taking the bus.

You could also check out serving in the Reserves or National Guard. While the financial benefits should not be the reason you join, they are a very valuable benefit. Some states pay 100% of the cost of attending a state school, even if you are attending a private college.


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## larryjf (Oct 14, 2008)

If you decide to go the "don't go into debt" route, i would recommend the seminary that i'm involved with as it's completely free:
The North American Reformed Seminary

Otherwise, i would agree that a community college would be a good idea for the first two years. While you are there you can look into other schools that are perhaps cheaper and can meet your needs.


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## Brother John (Oct 14, 2008)

STAY OUT OF DEBT!!!

P.S. In regards to the online education does anyone have a good suggestion for an undergrad degree that can be earned online? What should a seminary bound man study in his undergrad?


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## TheocraticMonarchist (Oct 15, 2008)

I appreciate all the input! I do have a question in regard to the AA degree.

I’ve noticed that Boyce only has 5 general ED classes that are the same as other schools. Math, English I, English II, Speech, and Computers. The rest of their curriculum is different. If I were to get an Associate’s degree would they pardon two years of their own general ED and ministry courses? Do most schools work this way?

Thanks!


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## Romans922 (Oct 15, 2008)

smhbbag said:


> I know it is likely not to be what you want to hear, but I think one of these two options will help you significantly in the financial arena.
> 
> 1) Attend community college for two years for very minimal tuition, getting most general education credits (English, Math, History, etc.) out of the way for $cheap.
> 
> ...



I agree with the above #2.

I went to a Christian Private College and the Bible preparation (I was a Biblical Studies Major) didn't really help me all that much when I went to seminary at RTS Jackson except learning Greek. If I were to do it over again, I would have gone to a state school and got a degree that not only would be a good foundation to seminary but also maybe provide an education (if the seminary thing didn't work out, i.e. not called to ministry after all...). Maybe major in engineering (Why not right? if you are good at math/science). While studying the Bible yourself and going to a good church sitting under good preaching (keep the Sabbath). Maybe while in college you do an internship or mentorship thing under the Pastor (if that's why you are going to seminary). If seminary doesn't work out, you start out well coming out of college.

Anyway, all I really learned from my Christian private college experience is this: I have a lot of loans to pay off.


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## VictorBravo (Oct 15, 2008)

Romans922 said:


> I agree with the above #2.
> 
> I went to a Christian Private College and the Bible preparation (I was a Biblical Studies Major) didn't really help me all that much when I went to seminary at RTS Jackson except learning Greek. If I were to do it over again, I would have gone to a state school and got a degree that not only would be a good foundation to seminary but also maybe provide an education (if the seminary thing didn't work out, i.e. not called to ministry after all...). Maybe major in engineering (Why not right? if you are good at math/science). While studying the Bible yourself and going to a good church sitting under good preaching (keep the Sabbath). Maybe while in college you do an internship or mentorship thing under the Pastor (if that's why you are going to seminary). If seminary doesn't work out, you start out well coming out of college.
> 
> Anyway, all I really learned from my Christian private college experience is this: I have a lot of loans to pay off.



I agree. We need more engineers who become preachers!  (Seriously, if you are good at math/science, engineering is probably the best preparation for anything, and it's a great trade skill to have, too.) And there are so many decent state programs out there, I don't know why anyone would want to go into great debt for it.

I went to a small engineering school in Montana that was ranked equal to MIT in three of its programs. It had a great reputation among employers. Plus, tuition and board cost me about the same as what I could earn during the summer as a farm laborer. Not a bad trade off. Nowadays, it's more expensive, but in-state tuition is still around $6000 per year. There are even better deals in other states.

Off-topic:

Andrew, it is so cool seeing that "Rev." in your signature.


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## matt01 (Oct 15, 2008)

TheocraticMonarchist said:


> I’ve noticed that Boyce only has 5 general ED classes that are the same as other schools. Math, English I, English II, Speech, and Computers. The rest of their curriculum is different. If I were to get an Associate’s degree would they pardon two years of their own general ED and ministry courses? Do most schools work this way?



Call them up and ask. If they aren't willing to accept your credits, you could always go to another school. I would say that most schools are willing to accept you as a transfer student, though they might not accept 100% of your Gen Ed coursework.


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## cih1355 (Oct 15, 2008)

Blev3rd said:


> STAY OUT OF DEBT!!!
> 
> P.S. In regards to the online education does anyone have a good suggestion for an undergrad degree that can be earned online? What should a seminary bound man study in his undergrad?



A degree in Computer Science can be earned online. I earned a second bachelor's degree in Computer Science from Florida State University. All of the courses required for the major were available online. My previous college credit met the general education requirement. Going to FSU's computer lab was not necessary because I was able to connect to FSU's server through the Internet with my home computer. Once I was connected with FSU's server through the Internet, I was able to use FSU's computer system to complete my computer programming assignments. 

According to the seminary catalogs that I have read, a strong understanding of the liberal arts is recommended for those who want to go to seminary.


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