# I need counsel: I'm not ordained. should I continue preaching the gospel?



## A S

I am in a tough position right now...

As newly reformed, I recently have read into some of the controversy regarding whether or not lay members should preach the gospel to unbelievers or just leave that ministry to those ministers who are ordained...

My situation is that I am employed at the Salvation Army Afterschool Program. I love this job. I am officially the gymnasium supervisor and they pay me to supervise the activities in the gym and play with kids.

One unique part about the program is that every Friday they have a "Christian education" time for the children (grades 1st through 8th). For the last year or so, I am the one who has been leading this part of the program... We sit the kids down, I bring a podium out, pray, sing some songs with the kids, and then I preach to them anywhere from 10 to 30 minutes. At the end we help them memorize scripture verses. Sometimes we show missionary videos, too. I would say about 80% of the kids come from unbelieving, non-church-attending homes and are hearing the gospel for the first time at this afterschool program.

Ideally, I wish we could have someone who is ordained of the reformed churches to be a part of this ministry. But practically, that is not going to happen. The salvation army is arminan to the core and it is only by God's grace that I was brought out of it. Now I am the only person who is reformed and involved with this afterschool program. And if I don't do the friday Christian education (read: preaching), then either my father will volunteer to do it (he is arminian wesleyan holiness pentecosta, hears-from-God,l type with a funky premillennialism...... or worse, a woman will probably do it.

Now the salvation army does not have a problem with me leading the Christian education time. And I do not believe my local reformed baptist congregation does either. I keep the studies Christ-centered, and Gospel centered. I teach them of our Triune God and how He has set out to redeem a people for Himself and will accomplish it. I try and take a story, biblical theology based approach, as opposed to systematic, because kids have trouble remembering systematic truths... But I always keep systematics in the back of my head to keep my Biblical theology straight. It seems every week I am propounding a different text, but constantly am returning to the theme of our Sovereign, Triune God as creator and sustainer, and Christ who lived a perfect life, died, resurrected, ascended and is returning. I do not press for hands raised, altar calls, or decisions, but I always plead/command them in the name of Jesus that they must repent toward God and believe in the Lord Jesus Christ to be saved. Then I tell them that if they believe, then they can know they are saved by God and they should be thankful to God for saving them by Loving God and their neighbor and keeping His commandments. These things are all very hard for a child to understand (especially the abstract things of God.) But I keep trusting God that the seeds planted will bear fruit one day.

Still, I worry that maybe I am overstepping my bounds in preaching like this? Should I step down and trust God in faith that He will see to it that those of these children for whom Christ has died will certainly be saved through the proper means of spreading the gospel?

If I step down, it is going to kill me inside. I know I am not officially a pastor. But I am attached to these kids. I see myself as a sort of stepping stone until they are old enough to make their own decision to go to a true church. I know we are not a church, but I see us as Christians preaching the gospel.

Thanks for any advice.
Adam


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## Semper Fidelis

What Church do you attend? Let your session know what you are doing which sounds fine to me.

Not all teaching and instruction is "preaching". Even elders aren't always preaching when sharing the faith and instructing others.

The only thing I would be concerned about is whether any go to Church. Kids cannot control that and I pray that the Lord will lead them to a visible communion one day and your labors may be the means.

Sent from my Droid using Tapatalk


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## Jimmy the Greek

Too many scruples. What "bounds" are you overstepping? You are not teaching in a church congregation. You have an opportunity to share Christ with youngsters and teach from the Bible. Take it.


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## David

I don't have anything from Scripture or the confessions, but if this is simply an after school program, then what's the problem? You're teaching them from the Bible as you would teach anyone else outside of Church.


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## A S

I don't know guys? For some reason I got the impression around here that the great commission is only ordained ministers. You know, preaching the gospel, teaching the nations, baptizing... The Lord's supper. So what I am getting is that I should leave the baptism and Lord's supper part to the local churches, but keep on preaching the Word within the afterschool program(outside the church)? Even if I am not a minister (yet?) hehe


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## fredtgreco

Not every Christian work requires ordination. I see absolutely nothing wrong with you serving the Lord where you are. Clear your conscience.


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## jason d

I don't see where only ordained folk can tell the good news to people (well, I know where some Presbyterians may press this point but I am not convinced the Great Commission was only to people who are ordained, at least I don't see that from Scripture).

If I were you I would take advantage of the situation for God's glory. I suppose however that if it goes against your conscience then you shouldn't do it, but be sure your conscience is informed by the Word of God.


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## reformedminister

Preach it brother! The Salvation Army doesn't observe the Sacraments anyway. The great commission is not just for ordained ministers. Tell that to Spurgeon, who was not ever officially ordained. "As for Saul, he made havock of the church, entering into every house, and haling men and women committed them to prison. Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word." (Acts 8:3-4)


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## SemperEruditio

I recommend you refrain until you:


Read, write, and speak biblical Greek, biblical Hebrew, Latin, and Aramaic
Read your entire Bible your age times 7.
Have a MAR, MDiv, DMin, and PhD from Westminster
Are married with 7 children
Raised 70x7 people from the dead
Walked on water
Cured cancer
Walked on the moon
......

Dude don't fall for the lie. It sounds like you are doing a great work. Keep your hand to the plow. Your in an afterschool program and sharing the Word. Yes it sounds like it resembles a Lord's Day service but there are a ton of social clubs which have versions of Lord's Day services on Sundays and yet Christ is never preached. You're proclaiming Christ and that is the greatest thing! God has given you an awesome job! Use it to glorify Him!

Do what you can with the time you've been given because pretty soon word will get around and they'll try to shut you down...I'm just sayin.


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## ubermadchen

Adam Schaefers said:


> Now I am the only person who is reformed and involved with this afterschool program. And if I don't do the friday Christian education (read: preaching), then either my father will volunteer to do it (he is arminian wesleyan holiness pentecosta, hears-from-God,l type with a funky premillennialism...... or worse, a woman will probably do it.
> 
> 
> Adam


 
Is any woman teaching young children the gospel really worse than an arminian pentacostal man?


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## A S

ubermadchen said:


> Adam Schaefers said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I am the only person who is reformed and involved with this afterschool program. And if I don't do the friday Christian education (read: preaching), then either my father will volunteer to do it (he is arminian wesleyan holiness pentecosta, hears-from-God,l type with a funky premillennialism...... or worse, a woman will probably do it.
> 
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is any woman teaching young children the gospel really worse than an arminian pentacostal man?
Click to expand...

What I meant was an arminian pentecostal salvation army woman... And she believes she is a pastor called by God. Sorry for the confusion.

---------- Post added at 07:07 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:04 AM ----------




SemperEruditio said:


> ...
> Do what you can with the time you've been given because pretty soon word will get around and they'll try to shut you down...I'm just sayin.


Yeah I know. I think you are exactly right. I have felt the tension many times and have had to keep this a matter of prayer continually. So far I have been amazed by God in this whole ordeal. I get the feeling though that should this ever get shut down, it will be because of secular humanism, (ie. an unhappy parent), and not arminians. Adam

---------- Post added at 07:14 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:07 AM ----------

Everyone else: Thanks guys. This is what I needed to hear. I believed I was doing the right thing all along, but I wanted to be sure I was not totally off on this...


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## JonathanHunt

What you are doing is what Sunday School teachers do for children. They're not ordained. It is a good thing you are doing, now having set your hand to the plough, don't look back.


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## A S

For anybody still reading this thread... There was one previously unchurched girl (a first grader) who attends our afterschool program and now also attends a community church with her grandmother. On one occasion this girl was trying to bring her older sister to church with her and her grandmother. The girl's older sister did not want to go, but wanted to stay home and play legos. The younger sister said to her, "there are no lego's in hell." and started crying / freaking out about her sister in front of her mother, who also did not attend church, but now is considering attending. This is one powerful testimony of a young heart changed and the witness of the grandmother, granddaughter, in connection with our afterschool program ministry. I don't know I just wanted to share that. Cool huh?


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## Montanablue

ubermadchen said:


> Adam Schaefers said:
> 
> 
> 
> Now I am the only person who is reformed and involved with this afterschool program. And if I don't do the friday Christian education (read: preaching), then either my father will volunteer to do it (he is arminian wesleyan holiness pentecosta, hears-from-God,l type with a funky premillennialism...... or worse, a woman will probably do it.
> 
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Is any woman teaching young children the gospel really worse than an arminian pentacostal man?
Click to expand...

 
Seriously. I see I'd best stop teaching 4th grade Sunday School class.

Edit: Adam, I just saw your clarification that the theology not the gender was the problem. You might have wanted to state that more clearly in the original post.


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## AThornquist

Don't waste this opportunity, brother.


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## Christopher88

From child care worker to another, I teach scripture every Monday to the children. I'm glad you brought this up, I was wondering if I should be teaching as well. Thanks for the answers guys/gals.


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## Jack K

Adam, I've been teaching kids practically every week for about 30 years without any "Rev." in front of my name. I teach in church, at camps, in after-school programs; wherever anyone lets me.

There are those who've suggested I ought to go to seminary and then start preaching weekly so as to reach more adults. My response is that such ministry is good and necessary, but in many ways I truly feel my calling to teach kids is the greater calling.

I say this to (1) encourage you to keep teaching kids wherever you are able, as it is highly honorable service, and (2) not worry that you ought to be ordained. As long as you have the support of your church leadership and take the teaching task seriously, you're well within bounds.


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## KMK

SemperEruditio said:


> Dude don't fall for the lie.


 
What lie are you talking about?

-----------

There seems to be some confusion about the word 'ordain'. To be ordained is to be called and approved by a church for a church office. Adam, you do not occupy a church office nor are you attempting to perform the function of church office, therefore, church ordination is not necessary. However, you have already been 'ordained' in a sense by the Salvation Army (which is not really a church) in the fact that you have been called and approved by the Salvation Army for particular duties. 

Nevertheless, it wouldn't hurt to be up front with your church elders about what you are doing. They are your elders for a reason.


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## White Knight

Adam Schaefers said:


> As newly reformed, I recently have read into some of the controversy regarding whether or not lay members should preach the gospel to unbelievers or just leave that ministry to those ministers who are ordained...
> Adam



Since you started off with this statement. What do you consider to be preaching? What are the duties that the preacher does that aren't echoed by other members?


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