# Time Travel



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 7, 2006)

Is anyone else a fan of time travel in literature or cinema?

Recently, I saw _The Butterfly Effect_ and _The Lake House_. In the _past_, I have enjoyed _Timecop_, _Time Bandits_, _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_, _Timeline_, _Star Trek_ episodes and movies, _Back to the Future_, _The Terminator_ films, _Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure_, _Frequency_, _Somewhere in Time_, _Sliding Doors_, _Kate & Leopold_, _Lost in Space_, _The Time Machine_, _Through the Looking-Glass_, _A Wrinkle in Time_, _Many Waters_, and many more. 

They are paradoxical, but fascinating. Anyone else share this interest?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 17, 2006)




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## a mere housewife (Oct 17, 2006)

yes. Unlikely as it may seem, I find time travel fascinating. I love idea that someone travelling at light speed would experience time much more slowly than people on earth, so that a person travelling in space at light speed could arrive on earth in the far distant future. Of course that brings up the probably idiotic idea to me, of somehow going at light speed in 'reverse' And I love the idea that time is different in different parts of space. I can't even really begin to get my mind around that one - Ruben read a novel by a contemporary of Lewis, positing that we were actually travelling backwards through time: we have no memory, we only have a sort of clairvoyance. Unfortunately the idea was probably the nicest thing about the book (I looked it over and decided, being such a much slower reader than he is, not to waste time on it). Have you read the story by Lewis- "The Dark Tower"? That deals with time travel as well. I love L'Engle. Of course one of the things that I can never puzzle out is how if you go back in time, you could have always been there: because that time couldn't exist other than it does, and if you have gone back to it then you must have been there always. Which would mean that the whole spectrum of time is always around us like space, and that we can exist in it - um multilaterally? Lewis' idea is even more complicated than that, a sort of grid of time with multiple worlds. It's all very interesting however fictional, I suppose precisely because it does 'blow my mind': it makes me realize though that my knowledge is bound into the way I am bound into time- itself very contingent and perishable, and really how little and how very finite I am.


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## RamistThomist (Oct 17, 2006)

Andrew,
A while back, didn't you have a post on man having telekenesis/pathic powers in a labratory? reasoning by analogy, could we tinker with time travel, too?


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## ReformedWretch (Oct 18, 2006)

Andrew

NBC's new show Heroes deals with time travel.

NOTE: It is a little preachy on evolution though


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## Scott Bushey (Oct 18, 2006)

The best scene I saw on time travel was here:






Kip: It's a time machine, Napoleon. We bought it online.
Napoleon Dynamite: Yeah, right.
Kip: It works, Napoleon. You don't even know.
Napoleon Dynamite: [using time machine] Ow! Ow! Ow! It kills! My pack! Ow! Turn it off! It's a piece of cr** and it doesn't work!
Uncle Rico: I coulda told you that.


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by a mere housewife_
> yes. Unlikely as it may seem, I find time travel fascinating. I love idea that someone travelling at light speed would experience time much more slowly than people on earth, so that a person travelling in space at light speed could arrive on earth in the far distant future. Of course that brings up the probably idiotic idea to me, of somehow going at light speed in 'reverse' And I love the idea that time is different in different parts of space. I can't even really begin to get my mind around that one - Ruben read a novel by a contemporary of Lewis, positing that we were actually travelling backwards through time: we have no memory, we only have a sort of clairvoyance. Unfortunately the idea was probably the nicest thing about the book (I looked it over and decided, being such a much slower reader than he is, not to waste time on it). Have you read the story by Lewis- "The Dark Tower"? That deals with time travel as well. I love L'Engle. Of course one of the things that I can never puzzle out is how if you go back in time, you could have always been there: because that time couldn't exist other than it does, and if you have gone back to it then you must have been there always. Which would mean that the whole spectrum of time is always around us like space, and that we can exist in it - um multilaterally? Lewis' idea is even more complicated than that, a sort of grid of time with multiple worlds. It's all very interesting however fictional, I suppose precisely because it does 'blow my mind': it makes me realize though that my knowledge is bound into the way I am bound into time- itself very contingent and perishable, and really how little and how very finite I am.



Brings new meaning to "God is light"


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## BobVigneault (Oct 18, 2006)

It is possible to travel forward in time as has already been mentioned by traveling near the speed of light. We are already traveling forward, light speed just makes it come quicker. Traveling back in time is proved impossible by the fact that if it WERE possible, someone would have already come back from the future to tell us. God could, if it pleased him, take us from one point int the space/time fabric and put us down in another point. All of time is an eternal now for God, however there is no way we can overcome the temporal barriers that God has put on changing dimensions. Angels, do seem to be able to move along a 'light-cone' between dimensions but not humans.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 18, 2006)

Bob...you just went up in the coolness factor again! 

Yep...I was raised by a sci-fi freak. I read Shakespeare and historical novels on my time and watch sci-fi shows at night. And if there ever was a marathon running, watch out!


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## ChristopherPaul (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Is anyone else a fan of time travel in literature or cinema?
> 
> Recently, I saw _The Butterfly Effect_ and _The Lake House_. In the _past_, I have enjoyed _Timecop_, _Time Bandits_, _A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court_, _Timeline_, _Star Trek_ episodes and movies, _Back to the Future_, _The Terminator_ films, _Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure_, _Frequency_, _Somewhere in Time_, _Sliding Doors_, _Kate & Leopold_, _Lost in Space_, _The Time Machine_, _Through the Looking-Glass_, _A Wrinkle in Time_, _Many Waters_, and many more.
> ...




I am a big fan of time travel movies!

From the list above, I really liked The Butterfly Effect, Timeline and Kate & Leopold. I have not seen many of the others. Back to the Future is one of my favorite trilogies – timeless!


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## BobVigneault (Oct 18, 2006)

Speaking of coolness. Not long after we were married (30 years ago), I took up astronomy as my hobby. I read and studied and I would sit outside in the wintertime with my telescope and search for visual binaries and refine my charts. My mother-in-law came to visit and she told my wife, "He sits out there in the cold with his microscope.... he's soooo peculiar." She loved me.

Later, I did get tired of the cold so I turned to theoretical physics (Einstein, black holes, quantum mechanics) and I really did try to unify physics with scripture. I considered writing a book called, The Physics of Heaven but never did.

What did I get out of all that study that never made a dime and seemed a waste of time? No matter what I studied I always found the awesomeness of God. I experienced many epiphanies, those times when you are overwhelmed by awe but cannot put words to the feeling. It was preparing me for the day when I would be introduced to the sovereignty and supremacy of God. I finally concluded that there is one word that unifies physics, the disciplines of math and science, astronomy and theology. The word is GLORY. No matter where I turned my attention I saw the Glory of God.


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## a mere housewife (Oct 18, 2006)

"Traveling back in time is proved impossible by the fact that if it WERE possible, someone would have already come back from the future to tell us." That made me laugh. As in, -oh, of course.

Can you explain more about a 'light cone' between dimensions?


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## Theoretical (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> Speaking of coolness. Not long after we were married (30 years ago), I took up astronomy as my hobby. I read and studied and I would sit outside in the wintertime with my telescope and search for visual binaries and refine my charts. My mother-in-law came to visit and she told my wife, "He sits out there in the cold with his microscope.... he's soooo peculiar." She loved me.
> 
> Later, I did get tired of the cold so I turned to theoretical physics (Einstein, black holes, quantum mechanics) and I really did try to unify physics with scripture. I considered writing a book called, The Physics of Heaven but never did.
> ...



Truly a fascinating story, Bob. I too had the same awe with calculus and physics, even though I never progressed beyond the level of a second college intro course in those disciplines. I've been exposed to just enough pure mathematics to be in sheer awe of the unity of creation in many ways. It is utterly amazing to understand how much one can describe an ordinary shape via both differential and integral calculus for instance. Some of the most amazing aspects of quantum mechanics similarly invoke awe.

Additionally, articles such as this one by William Dembski on the fundamental element of design that is behind randomness in this world just amaze me. Like what happened in your experience, I definitely think noticing these patterns helped lead me to a good understanding of the Sovereignty of God.



[Edited on 10-18-2006 by Theoretical]


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## BobVigneault (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by a mere housewife_
> "Traveling back in time is proved impossible by the fact that if it WERE possible, someone would have already come back from the future to tell us." That made me laugh. As in, -oh, of course.
> 
> Can you explain more about a 'light cone' between dimensions?




I was afraid someone would ask. I was trying to think of a way to condense the background knowledge needed for understanding a 'light-cone' and then would you believe Wikipedia came to my rescue. I assure you Heidi that there is no use for this info in every day living but it is fascinating stuff.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_cone

I believe that angels always appeared as very bright beings because in order to appear in our dimension they would have to be crossing the inter-dimensional barrier via a 'light-cone'. 

Sometimes this is explained as reflecting God's glory and of course it is. The shikinah or any light that we associate with the heavenly realm could be the result of a 'being' crossing this barrier.


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## a mere housewife (Oct 18, 2006)

Oh wow. Thank you, I will read it through, and try to understand about 'Minowski spacetime' and the 'Lorentz transformation'. I thought when you first said 'light cone' that it seemed much too beautiful to be what I thought it was, but I think it might end up being even more so.


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## BobVigneault (Oct 18, 2006)

More recently my interests have turned to Information Theory. That fact that God has created a compression scheme (DNA) for encoding massive amounts of information - designed in us encoders, decoders and compilers for transporting that information - this is awesome and a far more powerful apologetic then trying to refute evolution. Where did new information come from if matter is all there is? Matter can never give rise to new information.

I love the work of Werner Gitt http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v10/i2/information.asp




> _Originally posted by Theoretical_
> Truly a fascinating story, Bob. I too had the same awe with calculus and physics, even though I never progressed beyond the level of a second college intro course in those disciplines. I've been exposed to just enough pure mathematics to be in sheer awe of the unity of creation in many ways. It is utterly amazing to understand how much one can describe an ordinary shape via both differential and integral calculus for instance. Some of the most amazing aspects of quantum mechanics similarly invoke awe.
> 
> Additionally, articles such as this one by William Dembski on the fundamental element of design that is behind randomness in this world just amaze me. Like what happened in your experience, I definitely think noticing these patterns helped lead me to a good understanding of the Sovereignty of God.
> ...


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 18, 2006)

Bob...you better write a book...and I want an autographed copy! I have a science-minded son. Unfortunately, like Einstein and Edison, he is one bored kid. I'm going to give him a placement test and possibly bump him up in the math arena...I might even just pull out my college Biology and Earth Science books and ditch this fourth grade garbage (the kid memorizes encyclopedias...the latest book I picked up for him to devour was the 1981 edition of the FBIs Handbook of Forensic Science, a tech manual, no pictures).

I never saw the Butterfly Effect, but my stepdad explained it once to me.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 18, 2006)

Whew, thanks for all the feedback! For a while I thought my post got lost in another dimension, not of sight or sound but of time...



> _Originally posted by a mere housewife_
> yes. Unlikely as it may seem, I find time travel fascinating. I love idea that someone travelling at light speed would experience time much more slowly than people on earth, so that a person travelling in space at light speed could arrive on earth in the far distant future. Of course that brings up the probably idiotic idea to me, of somehow going at light speed in 'reverse' And I love the idea that time is different in different parts of space. I can't even really begin to get my mind around that one - Ruben read a novel by a contemporary of Lewis, positing that we were actually travelling backwards through time: we have no memory, we only have a sort of clairvoyance. Unfortunately the idea was probably the nicest thing about the book (I looked it over and decided, being such a much slower reader than he is, not to waste time on it).



That sounds interesting. I mentioned _Through the Looking-Glass_ by Lewis Carroll because the Queen is living backwards so her memory is working both ways.



> Have you read the story by Lewis- "The Dark Tower"? That deals with time travel as well.



I have not read _The Dark Tower_ -- I'd like to travel in time to a place where I have all the reading time in the world and add that to my list! 



> I love L'Engle. Of course one of the things that I can never puzzle out is how if you go back in time, you could have always been there: because that time couldn't exist other than it does, and if you have gone back to it then you must have been there always. Which would mean that the whole spectrum of time is always around us like space, and that we can exist in it - um multilaterally? Lewis' idea is even more complicated than that, a sort of grid of time with multiple worlds. It's all very interesting however fictional, I suppose precisely because it does 'blow my mind': it makes me realize though that my knowledge is bound into the way I am bound into time- itself very contingent and perishable, and really how little and how very finite I am.



In the words of Gilbert & Sullivan: "A paradox, a paradox, a most ingenious paradox!"

In the words of David: "When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?"



> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> Andrew,
> A while back, didn't you have a post on man having telekenesis/pathic powers in a labratory? reasoning by analogy, could we tinker with time travel, too?



Yes, I did cite a recent article on quantum teleportation, but the consensus of those who responded to my question was that it's not really possible. Other thoughts are welcome, though!



> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Andrew
> 
> NBC's new show Heroes deals with time travel.
> ...



Thanks Adam! That may be worth checking out.



> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> Traveling back in time is proved impossible by the fact that if it WERE possible, someone would have already come back from the future to tell us. God could, if it pleased him, take us from one point int the space/time fabric and put us down in another point. All of time is an eternal now for God, however there is no way we can overcome the temporal barriers that God has put on changing dimensions.



Good points, Bob!



> _Originally posted by ChristopherPaul_
> I am a big fan of time travel movies!
> 
> From the list above, I really liked The Butterfly Effect, Timeline and Kate & Leopold. I have not seen many of the others. Back to the Future is one of my favorite trilogies – timeless!



There are so many good ones to check out. I should have listed _Quantum Leap_ too. Or Isaac Asimov's _The End of Eternity_.

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## py3ak (Oct 18, 2006)

Bob, I have one quibble: why would someone have come back in time to tell us, specifically. Say that time travel is discovered in 5678. Why would you go back to 2006 or previously? Maybe you would think all true civilization started in 3029 and not bother to go back beyond that.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 18, 2006)

The only quandry with the Butterfly Effect is that it in itself is a paradox. You go back, squash a butterfly, everything changes, but then would you have been able to go back? Thus you didn't go back and so reality never changed.


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## BobVigneault (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by py3ak_
> Bob, I have one quibble: why would someone have come back in time to tell us, specifically. Say that time travel is discovered in 5678. Why would you go back to 2006 or previously? Maybe you would think all true civilization started in 3029 and not bother to go back beyond that.




"In The Year 2525 (Exordium & Terminus)" Zager and Evans

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find........

In the year 3535
Ain't gonna need to tell the truth, tell no lies
Everything you think, do, or say
Is in the pill you took today

In the year 4545
Ain't gonna need your teeth, won't need your eyes
You won't find a thing to chew
Nobody's gonna look at you

In the year 5555
Your arms are hanging limp at your sides
Your legs got nothing to do
Some machine, doing that for you

In the year 6565
Ain't gonna need no husband, won't need no wife
You'll pick your son, pick your daughter too
From the bottom of a long glass tube

In the year 7510
If God's a comin' he ought to make it by then
Maybe he'll look around himself and say
``Guess it's time for the judgment day''

In the year 8510
God's gonna shake his mighty head
He'll either say ``I'm pleased where man has been''
Or tear it down and start again

In the year 9595
I'm kinda wondering if man's gonna be alive
He's taken everything this old earth can give
And he ain't put back nothing...

Now it's been 10,000 years
Man has cried a billion tears
For what he never knew
Now man's reign is through
But through the eternal night
The twinkling of starlight
So very far away
Maybe it's only yesterday...

In the year 2525
If man is still alive
If woman can survive
They may find....... 


Ok Ruben, according to Zager and Evans you are right. In 5678 our arms will be hanging limp and our legs got nothing to do so we wouldn't survive in the 2000s. (PS - Zager and Evans were obviously Decamillenialists.

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by BobVigneault]


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## py3ak (Oct 18, 2006)

Haha, I won. My impeccable logic was buttressed by art and overthrew rationalism.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> (PS - Zager and Evans were obviously Decamillenialists.
> 
> [Edited on 10-18-2006 by BobVigneault]



"Decamillenialists" 

Reminds of some famous lyrics to an old hymn:



> When we've been here ten thousand years...
> bright shining as the sun.
> We've no less days to sing God's praise...
> then when we've first begun.


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## LadyCalvinist (Oct 18, 2006)

I grew up on science fiction (I started watching Star Trek when I was 3). If you like time travel one famous story is by Heinlein, _The Door Into Summer_.
Most sci- fi series have done at least one story where they go back in time, including most of the Star Trek series, Star Trek 4, Babylon 5, and of course Dr. Who.


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## LadyFlynt (Oct 18, 2006)

Don't forget Red Dwarf, Quantum Leap...


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## caddy (Oct 18, 2006)

I think they are interesting. I remember one about 10-15 years ago--with Cheryl Ladd and Chris Christopherson--where "citizens" from another planet replinished their dwendling supplies of "peoples" by rading doomed situations--such as aircraft disasters, whatnot, extracting the people who would have supposedly died ( their bodies would have never been recovered ) and took them to "THEIR PLANET". There were all sorts of fits & twists and violations of space time continiums ( I just love those !  ). Anyway, didn't know if you had seen that one. I'll have to look up the name. It was on TV, not the movies.

Butterfly Effect was mesmerizing ! Loved it. Also liked The Lakehouse. Loved the Time Machine--the old 50s or was it a 60s standard ? Love Kate & Leopold. Very funny movie, not to mention my wife's a HUGE Meg Ryan fan. Have NOT seen a wrinkle in time. That's the popular Christian Book by -- oh what's her name-- L'Engle Right ? That any good ?


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## caddy (Oct 18, 2006)

This song  use to haunt & depress me when I was a child !

I think because I could not wrap my mind around the whole, long, drawn out, depressing nature of the song's view of time.

Actually, it STILL DEPRESSES ME ! 

Thank God that He is OUTSIDE OF TIME, and one day we will be too--I think 



> _Originally posted by BobVigneault_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by py3ak_
> ...


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 18, 2006)

> _Originally posted by caddy_
> I think they are interesting. I remember one about 10-15 years ago--with Cheryl Ladd and Chris Christopherson--where "citizens" from another planet replinished their dwendling supplies of "peoples" by rading doomed situations--such as aircraft disasters, whatnot, extracting the people who would have supposedly died ( their bodies would have never been recovered ) and took them to "THEIR PLANET". There were all sorts of fits & twists and violations of space time continiums ( I just love those !  ). Anyway, didn't know if you had seen that one. I'll have to look up the name. It was on TV, not the movies.



_Millennium_ -- I'll have to check that out -- thanks!



> Butterfly Effect was mesmerizing ! Loved it. Also liked The Lakehouse. Loved the Time Machine--the old 50s or was it a 60s standard ? Love Kate & Leopold. Very funny movie, not to mention my wife's a HUGE Meg Ryan fan. Have NOT seen a wrinkle in time. That's the popular Christian Book by -- oh what's her name-- L'Engle Right ? That any good ?



I haven't yet seen the movie version of _A Wrinkle in Time_ but the book (by Madeleine L'Engle) is a classic.


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## Augusta (Oct 18, 2006)

I share this same affinity for anything sci-fi and time travel is way sci-fi. I recently read a Wrinkle in Time and will have to rent the film. I loved the book Timeline and the movie. 

Andrew there is one chick flik on time travel missing from your list. I think it might have been made for tv. It stars Lindsey Wagner and I watched it about a 50 times when I was young because my aunt had taped it and my sisters and I loved it. It was pretty good aside from the adultery.  It is called "The Two Worlds of Jenny Logan" and here is a link. http://jennylogan.lindsaywagner.net/

Bob, if you do write a book make sure you do a "dummies" version. Like Theoretical Science for Dummies or something. So I can read it.  It is fun to try to wrap you mind around some of this stuff.

[Edited on 10-18-2006 by Augusta]


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## a mere housewife (Oct 18, 2006)

Andrew I ought to add that 'The Dark Tower' was a short story that was never finished.


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## caddy (Oct 18, 2006)

http://sqn.com/millennium.html 

Yes !

Man...that was 1989. 17 years ago. At least I remembered it. It was pretty good.




> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> _Millennium_ -- I'll have to check that out -- thanks!
> quote]


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## BobVigneault (Oct 19, 2006)

Colleen,
has your son read [ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/048627263X?ie=UTF8&tag=extremelyadeq-20&linkCode=as2&camp=1789&creative=9325&creativeASIN=048627263X"]Flatland: A Romance of Many Dimensions (Dover Thrift Editions)[/ame]




by Edwin A. Abbot. This was the mind opening classic that really captured my imagination and helped me realize that there is infinitely more to God's creation than meets the eye. It's over a hundred years old and was a sci-fi classic ahead of it's time. It's short, a great intro to geometry and cheap too!







[Edited on 10-19-2006 by BobVigneault]


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## Average Joey (Oct 19, 2006)

Any videogames fans?If you like time travel,you need to play Chrono Trigger for either Super Nintendo or the original Playstation.The game was ahead of it`s time.No pun intended.(or maybe it was)


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