# Ethical Ecumenicalism



## xirtam (Dec 26, 2013)

I have an upcoming Intro. to Ethics course that I involves me reading "The Ethical Imagination: Journeys of the Human Spirit by Margaret Somerville". I have ordered it and it's in the mail, but I also came across the lectures here, from where I believe her book was first presented. 

I have listened to most of it by now and it seems to be promoting a sort of ethical ecumenicalism or an "ethics tumble dryer" as she said. She is Catholic, but does not even like to use "religious" language when speaking of ethics and wants to promoted a "shared ethics" which comes from the "human spirit". 

The professor of the course posted this article on the seminary's website about a week ago. 

I am aware that my seminary is liberal, but seeing that I am totally new to ethics (Christian in particular), I would like to know of the precautions that I should take when ingesting this material, especially the idea of Christians working together with non-Christians in ethical matters.

In Christ,


----------



## xirtam (Dec 26, 2013)




----------



## ReformedChristian (Dec 26, 2013)

I would recommend to you the works of Greg Bahnsen on this topic of Ethics http://www.amazon.com/Pushing-Antit...106145&sr=1-1&keywords=pushing+the+antithesis and Always Ready Always Ready: Directions for Defending the Faith: Greg L. Bahnsen, Robert R. Booth: 9780915815289: Amazon.com: Books and here is some stuff from Rushdoony College Text Books and Lectures - www.PocketCollege.com


----------



## Peairtach (Dec 26, 2013)

xirtam said:


> I have an upcoming Intro. to Ethics course that I involves me reading "The Ethical Imagination: Journeys of the Human Spirit by Margaret Somerville". I have ordered it and it's in the mail, but I also came across the lectures here, from where I believe her book was first presented.
> 
> I have listened to most of it by now and it seems to be promoting a sort of ethical ecumenicalism or an "ethics tumble dryer" as she said. She is Catholic, but does not even like to use "religious" language when speaking of ethics and wants to promoted a "shared ethics" which comes from the "human spirit".
> 
> ...



You should always be cautious with Liberal seminaries. Some young Christians have gone to Liberal seminaries and their faith has been shipwrecked and/or they've drifted into accepting Liberal Theology.

How long have you been a believing Christian, as far as you are aware? How old are you? What is your theological background and how grounded are you in the Reformed faith?

It is probably less troublesome for you to study a liberal perspective on ethics rather than theology. The main thing is that you do it with your eyes wide open.

The really bad thing is when young men just out of school, maybe converted in their teens are sent to liberal theological institutions with no or little explanation from their conservative pastors or parents about what to expect.

I find that kind of thing very strange, and, really, criminal.

You might/will learn some genuine things about ethics, but you should really be learning from this course about the weaknesses and error of liberal ethics and how to refute and dismantle it, because you're being taught an erroneous ethical system, based on erroneous presuppositions, which may only have, sometimes, some formal correspondences to the true biblical system. 

Your not getting the real deal, so unless you learn what you learn in order to refute it, you are to a large extent having your time wasted.

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


----------



## xirtam (Dec 27, 2013)

ReformedChristian said:


> I would recommend to you the works of Greg Bahnsen on this topic of Ethics Pushing the Antithesis: The Apologetic Methodology of Greg L. Bahnsen: Greg L. Bahnsen: 9780915815609: Amazon.com: Books and Always Ready Always Ready: Directions for Defending the Faith: Greg L. Bahnsen, Robert R. Booth: 9780915815289: Amazon.com: Books and here is some stuff from Rushdoony College Text Books and Lectures - www.PocketCollege.com



Thank you, Christopher. 

At the moment I am unable to buy anything since I am in Korea and we will be leaving soon. But I will use your suggestion in the future, when we move back to Canada, God willing. 

In Christ,


----------



## xirtam (Dec 27, 2013)

> You should always be cautious with Liberal seminaries. Some young Christians have gone to Liberal seminaries and their faith has been shipwrecked and/or they've drifted into accepting Liberal Theology.
> 
> How long have you been a believing Christian, as far as you are aware? How old are you? What is your theological background and how grounded are you in the Reformed faith?
> 
> ...



You are correct, Sir. I Pm'd you with the other info.


----------



## xirtam (Jan 4, 2014)

What is the error of ethical ecumenicalism? I think that I coined that phrase, not that I am proud of its existence. 

Can someone comment on or direct me in the proper direction (I cannot buy anymore resources in my present situation)? 

What is the proper terminology in this area of study? 

What I am talking about is the aforementioned lady (Margret Sommerville), who constantly talks about a "shared ethics" as "we humans" with the same "spirit" come together to achieve "proper" ethical solutions to hot topic ethical situations (such as bioethics, homosexuality etc). 

It all seems like garbage to me, but what do I know.

In Christ,


----------



## xirtam (Jan 4, 2014)

Are ethical endeavors or activist projects to be taken up with arms linked with other religions, or for that matter, people with no religion at all?


----------



## xirtam (Jan 5, 2014)

Can two groups of people, Christians and XYZ, work on an ethical ecumenical endeavor, if the "why" is different? If "why" they are doing it is different, won't that create difficulty in the operation of "how" it is done, properly at least?


----------



## Edward (Jan 5, 2014)

Having participated a bit on your other thread, and perhaps through that thread finally beginning to have an understanding of this question, I'd suggest that the professor's position is overbroad, but that a complete opposition to working with others might be going too far the other direction. 

For example, say the Catholics have a functioning anti-abortion ministry. Should you cooperate or compete. There are probably a number on this board who would be loathe to cooperate with a ministry of the Pope. But others may take a more nuanced approach. Would cooperating with them hamper your ability to share the truths of the Gospel? Or would it give you an opportunity to witness not only to the victims, but to the RCs who are laboring beside you? And that would be a fact based inquiry that would probably have to be frequently re-assessed. (Note, I am not suggesting a pragmatic analysis based upon efficiency, but on the practical implications of working with those with whom we do not share a confession.) 

What about Presbyterians and Baptists working together. Is that an easier question, or in fact a more difficult one?


----------



## Peairtach (Jan 5, 2014)

I don't really know what "Ethical Ecumenicalism" or "Ecumenicism" or "Ecumenism" is.

It could be e.g. a Reformed person working with Roman Catholics and others who oppose abortion in an anti-abortion pressure group. I don't see anythhing wrong with this, as long as you don't give support to Romanian in the process or to Roman worship practices. You both formally agree on a particular ethical issue and in a democracy you cdma co-operate with all those who agree doth you of whatever religion of none to achieve your goals.

The woman you mention - and women tend to make liberal theologians and ethicists, because they've already rejected what the Bible says about their place in the Church - seems to be advocating a lowest common denominator ethics bases on a lowest common denominator meta ethics through blending ethical "insights" from all religions and none. 

Her views will be driven by unbelief, secular humanism and the all religions lead to God and truth mentality.

These are just my guesses. This approach to ethics is completely unacceptable for the true Christian, as you are starting with a compromised theology and ending with a compromised ethic.

The blending of religions is called "syncretism", so I suppose she's advocating ethical syncreticsm. Although the all religions are the same crowd, tend to be highly influenced by humanistic thinking. It tends to be "all religions are the same, but we in the West have the truth in science", so you may find that in her thinking humanistic ethical concerns tend to trump all the warm words she may have for the "insights" of the world religions.


Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


----------



## ZackF (Jan 5, 2014)

xirtam said:


> Are ethical endeavors or activist projects to be taken up with arms linked with other religions, or for that matter, people with no religion at all?




I guess I just don't understand the categories in this thread. You are making it to hard me thinks. If you remove the word "ethical" from the above question, what do you have? Answer that question. If the answer to that question is affirmative, are you going to engage in such collaborations "unethically?"


----------



## xirtam (Jan 7, 2014)

Edward said:


> Having participated a bit on your other thread, and perhaps through that thread finally beginning to have an understanding of this question, I'd suggest that the professor's position is overbroad, but that a complete opposition to working with others might be going too far the other direction.
> 
> For example, say the Catholics have a functioning anti-abortion ministry. Should you cooperate or compete. There are probably a number on this board who would be loathe to cooperate with a ministry of the Pope. But others may take a more nuanced approach. Would cooperating with them hamper your ability to share the truths of the Gospel? Or would it give you an opportunity to witness not only to the victims, but to the RCs who are laboring beside you? And that would be a fact based inquiry that would probably have to be frequently re-assessed. (Note, I am not suggesting a pragmatic analysis based upon efficiency, but on the practical implications of working with those with whom we do not share a confession.)
> 
> What about Presbyterians and Baptists working together. Is that an easier question, or in fact a more difficult one?



Why not just start your own anti-abortion ministry? 

I would not, at this point, have any problems grouping Presbyterians and Baptists together on an abortion project - you know that the babies will be well cared for from birth to believer's baptism at least!

In Christ,


----------



## xirtam (Jan 7, 2014)

Peairtach said:


> I don't really know what "Ethical Ecumenicalism" or "Ecumenicism" or "Ecumenism" is.
> 
> It could be e.g. a Reformed person working with Roman Catholics and others who oppose abortion in an anti-abortion pressure group. I don't see anythhing wrong with this, as long as you don't give support to Romanian in the process or to Roman worship practices. You both formally agree on a particular ethical issue and in a democracy you cdma co-operate with all those who agree doth you of whatever religion of none to achieve your goals.
> 
> ...



I don't know what "Ethical Ecumenicalism" is either. But I am taking an ethics course and the first push seems to be more towards working with others, rather than establishing the source of ethics in the first place, namely God's moral law. That seems to be problematic. 

You and Edward have said basically the same thing and I am sure that you are both correct. My lot is to get to that point with a humility that allows me to see that benefit. 

As for the lady, I agree with your assessment that she addresses everyone as seemingly saints working for the greater good of the world, with little to no mention of the depraved nature of man and the sin that we all find ourselves in, not to mention of our need of any sort of salvation from a just God. It could be because she is Roman Catholic. 

When you said,


> "This approach to ethics is completely unacceptable for the true Christian, as you are starting with a compromised theology and ending with a compromised ethic."


I wonder if this is not true for any ethical ecumenical or synergistic endeavor? Then every activist project taken up with non-Christians is starting and ending with a compromised ethic. 

Just wondering.


----------



## xirtam (Jan 7, 2014)

KS_Presby said:


> xirtam said:
> 
> 
> > Are ethical endeavors or activist projects to be taken up with arms linked with other religions, or for that matter, people with no religion at all?
> ...



Hey Zack, 

My problem is getting to the affirmative, me thinks. The main reason why I add "ethics" is because I am taking an ethics course. 

In Christ,


----------



## Peairtach (Jan 7, 2014)

> When you said,
> 
> 
> > "This approach to ethics is completely unacceptable for the true Christian, as you are starting with a compromised theology and ending with a compromised ethic."
> ...



I'm not against "ethical activism" with people of other religions, etc, as long as we don't compromise in the process, which is perfectly possible. I don't believe God's Word is against that. We continue to live in the world, and if we are in a democracy, the idea is to gather together as many suitable people as you can find when campaigning on a particular issue. These people may disagree strongly on many other things.

I am, on the other hand, against a compromised or erroneous "system" of ethics, such that we derive our ethic from many religions and none. But if you have to study that, as part of your final year, seek to look at that "ethical approach" from a Reformed and Christian perspective.



Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


----------



## xirtam (Jan 7, 2014)

Peairtach said:


> > When you said,
> >
> >
> > > "This approach to ethics is completely unacceptable for the true Christian, as you are starting with a compromised theology and ending with a compromised ethic."
> ...



I understand what you are saying. Thank you for your insight.

In Christ,


----------

