# It's time to drive this false, man centered, "Left Behind" gospel out of the Church!



## ReformedWretch (Sep 19, 2006)

Thoughts?

Every day I get more and more annoyed with this garbage. Over and over again I encounter "Purpose Driven" Christians who want the next "gift of the Spirit" in order to prove God's devotion to them happy that they were smart enough to "make the right choice" rejoicing when wars and famine are displayed on TV because it means "the rapture is closer".

These people consider anything outside of these views to be of Satan and anyone who espouses them a son to the father of lies. They call you names like anti-semetic and unloving ignoring any scripture refrences you give in your defense.

The church is OVER RUN with these people and there are days where I see it as hopeless. Christianity barely exists anymore if you mean honest, biblical Christianity. The few who do hold to the truth are forced to sit in corners quietly praying that someone will ask them what they think because if they speak up they will be banished in some way.

I am sick of it and ready to do whatever it takes to see a new reformation.

Sorry, I am a bit disgusted right now.


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## Blueridge Believer (Sep 25, 2006)

I share your disgust with it. I once was wrapped up in pre-tribulation dispensationalism but God in his mercy delivered me from it about 12 years ago. Now it's hard not to be bitter and mean spirited toward the brethren, especially the preachers who espouse this heresy. Everytime I see that fat bloated gasbag John Hagee on TV I want to throw a brick at him while he spues forth his blasphemy about "dual covenant" salvation. He along with that apostate Rick Warren are leading the sheep like lemmings of the cliff of theological detructiuon.
Because of this I have had many of my family turn against me and call me christian with no love. I have now become thier enemy for telling them the truth.
Forgive my crude language brother. I get a little heated over this matter.


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## jaybird0827 (Sep 25, 2006)

Adam,

The only understanding of God's word that will consistently stand up to these gainsayers, from all I've seen, is the kind that is articulated by confessional standards; for example, The Westminster Confession of Faith and Catechisms.

Yes we need reformation. It is especially needed in many congregations that purportedly espouse these standards! We have been in "reformed" churches that are officially on board and found ourselves repeatedly set up and mocked out for speaking up on these issues. It's not just our imagination; so have many of our friends.

"For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?" (I Peter 4:17)


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 25, 2006)

The problem I encounter when I bring up confessions and such is that they believe we've grown in knowledge since then. They won't insult the founders and such, just claim that we have discovered more about God's word since their time, often quoting Daniel regarding an increase in understanding as the end times grows nearer.


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## Blueridge Believer (Sep 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> The problem I encounter when I bring up confessions and such is that they believe we've grown in knowledge since then. They won't insult the founders and such, just claim that we have discovered more about God's word since their time, often quoting Daniel regarding an increase in understanding as the end times grows nearer.



At which point a charge of "gnosticism" can be leveled at them. Also the IFB brethren can be shown that they are no different than the charasmatics at this point. The fact that they believe they have "special" knowledge that 1850 yrs. of christianity knew nothering about ought to raise an eyebrow.


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## blhowes (Sep 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> The problem I encounter when I bring up confessions and such is that they believe we've grown in knowledge since then. They won't insult the founders and such, just claim that we have discovered more about God's word since their time, often quoting Daniel regarding an increase in understanding as the end times grows nearer.


I hope that people who make comments like this have actually read the confession/catechisms. Sometimes, in our enlightened times, we assume that we're more knowledgeable than what's written in the confessions, without having read them. Instead of building on the wisdom of the past (or just accepting it), we as 'Bible believers' tend to bypass that step and try to reinvent the wheel.

(just thinking back to the time when this 'Bible believer' picked up a confession for the 1st time and was blessed by its wisdom)


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 25, 2006)

More than likely Bob, they have not read them. I sent one to a person I was in discussion with and she said "I am not reading all that!" 

I felt like saying

Reading Haaaarrrrrd


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## turmeric (Sep 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> The problem I encounter when I bring up confessions and such is that they believe we've grown in knowledge since then. They won't insult the founders and such, just claim that we have discovered more about God's word since their time, often quoting Daniel regarding an increase in understanding as the end times grows nearer.



That's called Restorationism. It was a major feature of Dispensationalism, Pentecostalism, and the other isms which came from Revivalism in the 19th Century.


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## Ivan (Sep 25, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> More than likely Bob, they have not read them. I sent one to a person I was in discussion with and she said "I am not reading all that!"
> 
> I felt like saying
> ...



Adam,

Are these people you're talking about members of your church?


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 25, 2006)

Oh no, thank God! Just people I encounter online on supposed Christian websites.


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## Robin (Sep 26, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> The problem I encounter when I bring up confessions and such is that they believe we've grown in knowledge since then....we have discovered more about God's word since their time, often quoting Daniel regarding an increase in understanding as the end times grows nearer.



This sounds like what the Jehovah Witnesses say to justify their ever-growing list of "revelations" to justify unbiblical doctrines.

A more useful tact might be to "teach" them what the catechism says by simply memorizing it (the categories, for example) and use the Scripture references that back the doctrine. Know the material so well you can put it in your own wording/explanation, Etc. Don't promote the catechism as though it was a "3 Spiritual Laws" tract! I mean, don't hand out copies of it. Be prepared to explain what you know about a particular doctrine and engage in a dialog.

This is an organic process. Relationships can be complex. It might take patience to endure the blindness and sinful misuse of Scripture of others so that you might "snatch some from the fire" as it were. ???

Btw, whatever Daniel reference is used, be able to refute it based on bad-hermaneutics. Many dispensationals (amazingly) use the OT to interpret the New instead of vice versa. 

Another fabulous idea is to study, read and share Kim Riddlebarger's new book: "The Man of Sin" A biblical study of the Anti-Christ. 
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Man-Sin-Uncovering-about-Antichrist/dp/0801066069/sr"]Amazon.com: The Man of Sin: Uncovering the Truth about the Antichrist: Books: Kim Riddlebarger[/ame]

Adam, do your blood-pressure a favor...channel the angries and frustration towards useful work! Get out there and seize the opportunity to teach the truth when it arises. Besides, it'll help you master the material better, thinking God's thoughts after Him.

Blessings,

Robin


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## Average Joey (Sep 26, 2006)

Adam,have you sneaked back over to the RR board again?:bigsmile:


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 26, 2006)

lol

No, it was pretty much ditty talk


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## ChristopherPaul (Sep 27, 2006)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> The problem I encounter when I bring up confessions and such is that they believe we've grown in knowledge since then. They won't insult the founders and such, just claim that we have discovered more about God's word since their time, often quoting Daniel regarding an increase in understanding as the end times grows nearer.



Back in my early Christian days, Hagee was my primary teacher. He would use Daniel 12's "Knowledge Explosion" to explain mankind's knowledge in general not the church.

He would say stuff like, "œFrom the garden of Eden until 1900 the flame was the primary source of light. Now we have lasers, fiber optics, etc." He would go on about travel by animal and today breaking sound barriers and going to space, etc.

It was quite effective. I used that approach in many of my speech classes in high school.


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