# I need help with apostacy.



## Kevin (Jul 9, 2009)

I need some help here. Some good friends of ours seem to be in the process of apostacy. They have begun attending (for 4+ months) a church that seems to be modalist.

Here is the website of the church; Christ's Church Ministries - Welcome

If you look here; Christ's Church Ministries - What We Believe you will see that they teach "one God manefested...."

I need help in several ways.

First, with resources that I can use to rebut this evil doctrine.

Second, with advice on how to confront them about this.

Third, with prayer for this dear family.

We have alerted them to problems with the church re this issue when they began to attend. However they were leaving a church situation that was negative & the word of faith style message, combined with a worship style that the kids liked was enough to keep them.

My first idea is to invite them out to dinner & give them a blunt assesment of the issue. i.e. "if you join this church then it is like joining the JW's or Mormans, and you will not be a christian". The issue is complicated by the fact that they serve together with us on some board of xn organisations that require a trinitarian statement of faith. So if I do this I will be forced to ask them to resign, or I will have to make a motion to remove them.

I nee some help here!!!


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Jul 10, 2009)

You might start with the Chalcedonian Definition as a discussion point. It has withstood the test of time and agreed to by a wide range of belief systems and was formulated to counter the many heresies:

1. a denial that Christ was truly God (Ebionites, Elkasites, Arians);
2. a dissimilar or different substance (_anomoios_) with the Father (semi-Arianism);
3. a denial that Christ had a genuine human soul (Apollinarians);
4. a denial of a distinct person in the Trinity (Dynamic Monarchianism);
5. God acting merely in the forms of the Son and Spirit (Modalistic Monarchianism/Sabellianism/United Pentecostal Church);
6. a mixture or change when the two natures were united (Eutychianism/Monophysitism);
7. two distinct persons (Nestorianism);
8. a denial of the true humanity of Christ (docetism);
9. that God the Son laid aside all or some of His divine attributes (kenoticism);
10. that there was a communication of the attributes between the divine and human natures (Lutheranism, with respect to the Lord's Supper); and
11. that Jesus existed independently as a human before God entered His body (Adoptionism).

AMR


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## Athaleyah (Jul 10, 2009)

This is really simplistic, but has always been something that "proved" the Trinity for me. If for no other reason than modalism makes it ridiculous.

Luke 3:21,22

21 Now when all the people were baptized, and when Jesus also had been baptized and was praying, the heavens were opened,
22 and the Holy Spirit descended on him in bodily form, like a dove; and a voice came from heaven, “You are my beloved Son; with you I am well pleased.”

Modalistic View? -- So Jesus comes up out of the water and was praying, then he "switches" to the Holy Spirit, alights on Jesus' empty body in the form of a dove, then "switches" up to heaven and says "You are my beloved son..." as the Father. Then "switches" back into Jesus...


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## William Price (Jul 10, 2009)

Modalism, also known as Oneness pentecostal heresy, is a doctrinal position that denies the very deity of Jesus Christ, seeing how they declare the Son is not but the human flesh Christ came in. I just came out from this heresy not too long ago, and let me tell you, I have had many answered questions since coming into the historic Christian faith. I was a Oneness minister for 15 years, and it is deceptively deceiving.

1. Point out the fact to your friends that Oneness churches declare Christ to be nothing more than a mere human being, and not God.
2. Share with them that if they attend, and the church is traditional Oneness, the salvation will involve works of man, and thus is false.
3. Point out to them that the holiness of Oneness is based on man and not the finished work of Christ at the Cross.
4. Finally, love them and invite them to your home church.

Just my thoughts.


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## Edward (Jul 10, 2009)

They seem to be affiliated with this group

Welcome to FCF Canada

Which has this in their statement:

There is one God manifested
in three persons: Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
About Faith Christian Fellowship Canada - Beliefs

I wonder if they even know the difference between the statement of the group and theirs. But then the question of why they would change it unless they meant to say something different. 

Other than that, the two statements seem to track.


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## Kevin (Jul 10, 2009)

Thanks guys. 

The family I am concerned about are noy "true believers" of this false doctrine, it is just that they are being drawn in by "this nice church". I am really burdened about how blunt/frank I should be about the issue.


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## steven-nemes (Jul 10, 2009)

The church is also charismatic...


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