# Seperation from the world



## satz (Sep 27, 2004)

Greetings,

In 2 Cor 6:14 onwards, believers are commanded not to be equally yoked with unbelievers. What does this mean to each of you?

I know there are those who have taken this to mean christians are not to be part of associations such as trade unions, even when membership is complusory under law. 

How to you guys think we should apply these scriptures? How does it relate to friendships with unbelievers? schools? Universities? clubs? joining the army?


opinions are much appreciated!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 27, 2004)

This is a good question. I think many different applications of this principle can be found. The trade union example is good and so is marriage. Any relationship with an unbeliever or group of unbelievers that requires a commitment which can lead one into sin must be avoided at all costs. 

My view of the sinfulness of the oath of loyalty to the US Constitution would, for example, prevent me from joining the military, voting or holding elected public office, serving on a jury, etc. I believe that when Christians can participate in civil government in good conscience without sinning much like Joseph and Daniel then they can and should when appropriate. However, compromise with sin to be a part of a political party or office of public service is sinful and to be avoided.

However, this principle can also be applied to avoiding sinful behavior arising from fellowship with corrupt persons in a family or a gang, or any number of less formal relationships.

What this verse does not mean is that we should abstain with all relationships with unbelievers. I don't see anything inherently wrong from joining a stamp club, attending a university (though that can be hazardous to one's spiritual health), or being a part of some other civic organization provided it is not sinful in its goal or activities. 

It is only when such association inevitably leads to sin that one should abstain. Otherwise, we are elsewhere commanded to be "salt and light."


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## satz (Sep 27, 2004)

VG,

thnx for the reply. you mentioned you wouldn't vote nor join the military. what about christians in countries wear both are complusory? What should they do?

Also, do you believe joining an association that involves christians and non-christians togeather in a common goal is inherently wrong, even if the common goal is not inherently sinful?

I know we love to deceive ourselves, but for discussion's sake lets assume the goal is genuinely neutral, at the least.


thanks and God bless


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 27, 2004)

[quote:95fb4b0f96="Emme"]VG,

thnx for the reply. you mentioned you wouldn't vote nor join the military. what about christians in countries wear both are complusory? What should they do?

Also, do you believe joining an association that involves christians and non-christians togeather in a common goal is inherently wrong, even if the common goal is not inherently sinful?

I know we love to deceive ourselves, but for discussion's sake lets assume the goal is genuinely neutral, at the least.


thanks and God bless[/quote:95fb4b0f96]

My view about Christians voting or joining the military would be modified relating to which country we are speaking about. In America, the basic requirement to vote or serve in the military is that one must swear an oath of loyalty to the Constitution. I believe that oath to be unlawful for a variety of reasons. Other countries will naturally have other requirements. If there is no unlawful requirement [i:95fb4b0f96]per se[/i:95fb4b0f96], then I would not have a problem with a Christian (male) voting or joining the military in that nation. I strongly support the view that nations have a right to self-defense and just war, and that Christians have a patriotic and civic duty to serve their nations in time of need and influence their countries for good. 

I do not have any problem with Christians joining in an association with unbelievers if that assocation is directed towards matters or goals that are not sinful.


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## satz (Oct 1, 2004)

VirginiaHuguenot,

thnx again for your response. Wondering if u might be willing to answer some quick questions.

1. I m not from the US, could u tell me briefly what it is about the constitution that makes u feel swearing an oath og loyalty to be sinnful?

2. Just to clarify, you view is that should the US enact a law requiring mandatory conscription, christians would have to refuse, even on pain of imprisonment?

3. Finally, u mentioned that even when it is not sinnful, only male christians should vote or join the military(that's the impression i got, my apologizes if it is false). I'am aware of the board principles regarding female submission, but could prehaps jsut run the though the direct application that brought you to such a conclusion?


thank you


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## Puritan Sailor (Oct 1, 2004)

[quote:447bf7ae3f="VirginiaHuguenot"] 
My view about Christians voting or joining the military would be modified relating to which country we are speaking about. In America, the basic requirement to vote or serve in the military is that one must swear an oath of loyalty to the Constitution. I believe that oath to be unlawful for a variety of reasons. Other countries will naturally have other requirements. If there is no unlawful requirement [i:447bf7ae3f]per se[/i:447bf7ae3f], then I would not have a problem with a Christian (male) voting or joining the military in that nation. I strongly support the view that nations have a right to self-defense and just war, and that Christians have a patriotic and civic duty to serve their nations in time of need and influence their countries for good. 

I do not have any problem with Christians joining in an association with unbelievers if that assocation is directed towards matters or goals that are not sinful.[/quote:447bf7ae3f]
How is joining the military being part of an association with a sinful end?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 1, 2004)

[quote:ad6f924449="puritansailor"][quote:ad6f924449="VirginiaHuguenot"] 
My view about Christians voting or joining the military would be modified relating to which country we are speaking about. In America, the basic requirement to vote or serve in the military is that one must swear an oath of loyalty to the Constitution. I believe that oath to be unlawful for a variety of reasons. Other countries will naturally have other requirements. If there is no unlawful requirement [i:ad6f924449]per se[/i:ad6f924449], then I would not have a problem with a Christian (male) voting or joining the military in that nation. I strongly support the view that nations have a right to self-defense and just war, and that Christians have a patriotic and civic duty to serve their nations in time of need and influence their countries for good. 

I do not have any problem with Christians joining in an association with unbelievers if that assocation is directed towards matters or goals that are not sinful.[/quote:ad6f924449]
How is joining the military being part of an association with a sinful end?[/quote:ad6f924449]

Hi Patrick,

I have merely alluded to a position that I hold which is the historic American Covenanter position with respect to the US Constitution. For over 150 years the American Covenanter church (ie., RPCNA) held that the oath of loyalty to the Constitution was an unlawful oath. The reasons for this are manifold. The Constitution, for one thing, fails to acknowledge national submission to God and acribes the source of its power to "we, the people." The Constitution sets itself up as the Supreme authority of the land in contrast to the Bible. It prohibits religious tests for public office which God's Word requires ("he that rule over men must be just, ruling in the fear of God" - 2 Sam. 23.3). It has a number of amendments which are unScriptural, most notably the First, which guarantees religious freedom to all non-Christians, in opposition to the First and Second Commandments (see WLC#103-110). There are more issues, but all of these lead me to the conclusion that I cannot in good conscience take an oath to support, uphold and defend the Constitution. As a result, because my conscience binds me in this matter, I am restricted from many areas of civil service such as serving in the military, voting, serving on a jury, etc. I recognize that my view is a minority view among American Christians and even among American Covenanters today. However, it was not always so, and I believe that my position of religious/political dissent from the Constitution is still required by Scripture today. I do not look down on other Christians who do not have the same problems with taking an oath to uphold the Constitution, but my view of oath-taking and civil government requires me to take the position that I do. I am very active politically to the extent that I can be and I wish I could do more in good conscience. I don't believe it is otherwise sinful to participate in the military (I am by no means a pacifist) or public office, etc. Meanwhile, I pray and work for National Reformation in our country. I hope this clarifies my earlier comments.

P.S. Without endorsing it fully, here is a link to an article which outlines a historical perspective on the position to which I hold: http://www.natreformassn.org/statesman/01/poltheo.html


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