# PB's Influence On Me: For better or worse?



## blhowes (Dec 5, 2008)

I've been a member here at the PB for quite some time now, and have learned a lot. I don't mean to blame the people on the PB, but I've seen a change in my life, it may be a good change.

I've lived many years believing some things that a lot of independent fundamental baptists believe. One of them is that its a sin to drink alcohol. That kind of thinking can get ingrained in a person, and it takes time to change.

A few weeks ago, I heard an interesting sermon at church about when Jesus turned the water into wine. The associate pastor made it clear during the sermon that on the one hand drunkenness was in no way being condoned in the passage, and on the other hand the OT does speak of blessings associated with wine.

At the base of the pulpit, there was a bottle of wine and a wine glass. At the end of the sermon, he in affect said, "Let us all taste of the goodness of God", and he stepped down from the pulpit, poured some wine into the glass, then he drank some of the wine. He then put the glass down, and closed in prayer. 

It seemed such an appropriate "object lesson" to use as a close for the sermon. Rarely at the church are object lessons used, this one just seemed to be so appropriate.

These last few weeks since the sermon, whenever it would come to mind, it amazed me how I reacted to him drinking wine in church. If any of you once had fundamentalist leanings (and please forgive me, I don't mean to paint all fundamentalists with such a big brush), you can probably relate to what I'm saying. A preacher drinking wine in church - unheard of! At one time, I could not have imagined such a thing being done in the church of God. Yet, now I'm perfectly ok with it. What a change!

For this change, I think its proper to put the blame where it belongs, the PB. You've influenced my life in this area. For better or worse, I'll let you be the judge. 

BTW, thank-you.


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## Kim G (Dec 5, 2008)

Ooooo, what kind of wine? 

Seriously, though, I know exactly where you're coming from since I have the same background. The Lord has changed plenty of personal convictions as well as doctrine. Praise God!


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## smhbbag (Dec 5, 2008)

Ditto. Many changes, though some so slow I had not noticed them until a moment like you describe brings it to mind, and it is a cause for great thanksgiving and rejoicing. It is very similar to how I was brought to faith, where I cannot point to a date or time, but I can now clearly say I am in Christ, and just as clearly recognize a time when I was not.

Haha, I just noticed we have the same registration month, Bob. But you've got me licked in the post department. I'd love to see a list of the longest-registered PB members with the lowest post totals, among those who have been active the entire time. Yes, I have to think of a contest that convoluted to find one I might be able to compete in around here 

Wow, Dec. 2002. At that time, I had barely even heard the term "Doctrines of Grace" a few months before, and then somehow I found my way here. I may have even been a grudging 4-pointer still. Wow, times change. In comes presuppostionalism, Covenant Theology, theonomy, sabbatarianism, and who all knows what else. 

I suppose it should also serve as a caution - you become like those you consistently read and hang out with. This can work in the negative direction every bit as much as the PB has worked in the right way.


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## blhowes (Dec 5, 2008)

Kim G said:


> Ooooo, what kind of wine?


Unfermented, I'm sure. 


> Seriously, though, I know exactly where you're coming from since I have the same background. The Lord has changed plenty of personal convictions as well as doctrine. Praise God!


Amen! Praise God!

-----Added 12/5/2008 at 10:55:13 EST-----



smhbbag said:


> Ditto. Many changes, though some so slow I had not noticed them until a moment like you describe brings it to mind, and it is *a cause for great thanksgiving and rejoicing*.


Amen! And praise the Lord for the changes you've seen in your life as well.



smhbbag said:


> Haha, I just noticed we have the same registration month, Bob. But you've got me licked in the post department.


Quality, not quantity. 



smhbbag said:


> Wow, Dec. 2002. At that time, I had barely even heard the term "Doctrines of Grace" a few months before, and then somehow I found my way here. I may have even been a grudging 4-pointer still. Wow, times change.


 For me, at the time I couldn't fathom the idea of somebody believing in infant baptism and being able to defend it (very convincingly) from the scriptures.



smhbbag said:


> I suppose it should also serve as a caution - you become like those you consistently read and hand out with. This can work in the negative direction every bit as much as the PB has worked in the right way.


Indeed, so true.


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## Tim (Dec 6, 2008)

Bob, good to hear that you are "being a Berean" and checking to see "if that's what the Bible really teaches".


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## Jon Lake (Dec 6, 2008)

I used to LOVE a good beer, or a nice glass of red with a steak! After my accident I get BLINDING headaches if drink, I guess I am saying I am jealous of all who can enjoy a nice toddy! I am glad you are finding peace with your new perspective. Blessings.


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## blhowes (Dec 6, 2008)

Tim said:


> Bob, good to hear that you are "being a Berean" and checking to see "if that's what the Bible really teaches".


Amen. Makes me wonder what I'll find out next. Who knows, maybe I'll find out its not a sin to smoke a cigar or dance or go to the movies, but probably not (jk).


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## jambo (Dec 6, 2008)

Whilst reading about such legalistic rules that come down to us I often think of Ps 1.1. This seems to sum up the faith of some who perceive Christianity as simply not doing this and not doing that. It's a shame they can't progress to v2 about delighting in 'the law of the Lord'


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## Hawaiian Puritan (Dec 6, 2008)

I have to admit I am still very uncomfortable about the whole issue of alcohol, even though I'm from a family that on my father's side for generations had a winery and vineyards in Napa Valley. I acknowledge there is no Scriptural prohibition against drinking, only drunkenness. But I have known a lot of people whose lives have been ruined or negatively affected by drinking. Then there are all those who have been severely injured or killed by drunk drivers. And alcohol abuse leads to a lot of crime and wrongful behavior, whether it's a fight in a bar that turns into a homicide or someone abusing their spouse. It can also be an enticement to letting your guard down on other things, such as being put in a temptation situation that could lead you to be unfaithful. 

I think it's a lot like what God originally intended for the sexual relationship between husband and wife. It is something that Satan can easily pervert into something bad if not kept within the boundaries that God intends. 

So although once in a while I may have a glass of wine, mainly with a meal, I generally have a problem with the American drinking culture extolled in numerous TV commercials and print advertising. I don't like being in those settings, because I don't want to be seen as approving something that could cause my brother or sister to stumble.

Ironically, at least in my social group, very few of my acquaintances drink, or if they do drink, they drink very little. I think a lot of it is because there are very severe consequences here if you get caught for DUI. Especially if you are a lawyer like I am, you could be facing jail time and loss of your license to practice. That primarily arises out of a shocking accident a number of years ago where a drunken attorney killed a couple in another car after he had been "entertaining" a client. The accident was so bad the other car was completely disintegrated; the couple was sitting at at an intersection waiting for the light to turn green when the lawyer plowed into them from behind at high speed; they never knew what hit them. The lawyer not only went to jail for a long time for manslaughter; his firm was put out of business by the resulting wrongful death suit because the lawyer had been "engaged in firm business." Ever since then the authorities have thrown the book at any lawyer caught drinking and driving, including this year jailing the chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee who got caught (he also then lost his seat in the most recent election). My firm also has rules prohibiting alcohol consumption while doing anything for the firm, even if it is taking a client out to dinner.


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