# Marriage?



## Zenas (Oct 17, 2008)

Where did we get the idea of the ceremony that we know today?

I realize we are commanded to leave our parents and join with one another, etc., but that doesn't really say "go get married" with married meaning what we imagine today. Was the ceremony imported from outside practice via scriptural reference? Or am I missing something in the text? If neither, then where'd it come from?


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## Brother John (Oct 17, 2008)

Good question, Im looking forward to reading what everybody has to say.


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## Zenas (Oct 18, 2008)

*bump*


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## Zenas (Oct 28, 2008)

Bump one more time.


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## Kim G (Oct 28, 2008)

Can I bump too? 

I've often wondered this, especially after reading Genesis 24. It sounds like Isaac met Rebekah, took her into the tent, and consummated the relationship. Where's the marriage? The vows? The ceremonies?

"Then Rebekah lifted her eyes, and when she saw Isaac she dismounted from her camel; for she had said to the servant, “Who is this man walking in the field to meet us?” The servant said, “It is my master.” So she took a veil and covered herself. And the servant told Isaac all the things that he had done. Then Isaac brought her into his mother Sarah’s tent; and he took Rebekah and she became his wife, and he loved her. So Isaac was comforted after his mother’s death."


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## Gloria (Oct 28, 2008)

*coughbumpcough*


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## Bladestunner316 (Oct 28, 2008)

It seems to me that the traditional marriage ceremony today creates strife between bride and groom and both families and costs more than its worth. Especially when you have two families with differing cultures. Id rather avoid the whole mess get a pastor and get married.


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## VictorBravo (Oct 28, 2008)

Zenas said:


> Where did we get the idea of the ceremony that we know today?
> 
> I realize we are commanded to leave our parents and join with one another, etc., but that doesn't really say "go get married" with married meaning what we imagine today. Was the ceremony imported from outside practice via scriptural reference? Or am I missing something in the text? If neither, then where'd it come from?



I don't have anything on the traditional ceremony, but certainly the idea of some sort of ceremony is found throughout scripture:

Isa 61:10 

I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, my soul shall be joyful in my God; for he hath clothed me with the garments of salvation, he hath covered me with the robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom decketh himself with ornaments, and as a bride adorneth herself with her jewels.

Jer 2:32 Can a maid forget her ornaments, or a bride her attire? yet my people have forgotten me days without number.

Mat 22:8-10

Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy. Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage. So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 


Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 

And, of course, there is the wedding feast of Cana in John 2.

I'm not saying it is scriptural commandment, but certainly has been done for a long time.


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## Tim (Oct 29, 2008)

I was trying to think of the elements of becoming married that would be essential. I see what VictorBravo has written above, but thought to add:

1) a vow
2) coming together physically

I was also thinking of Adam and Eve. I don't know about #1, but certainly #2 was done.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 29, 2008)

Okay so my answer is hardly scholarly and is based on what I learned in a public high school a number of years ago. I doubt it is the ultimate origin of marriage as we know it but it could be a step in the right direction.

In our history of England class we had to cover the reign of Queen Elizabeth. One of the reforms she brought through (or back can't remember ) was the marriage ceremony to be witnessed to by the church. Before this marriages were as you said, simply consummated and everyone sort of acknowledged it. The problem was that this caused lots of legal issues. Were they really married? Had anyone actually intended to be bound or was it just a fling? Who was to be held accountable for unwanted pregnancies? All sorts of problems arose with one family or another saying their daughter had been disgraced etc... So it seemed prudent to make couples say formal vows and go through a public ceremony that afterwards could not be disputed to have happened.

Now I am not sure how much truth is in this, and it certainly doesn't explain the social origins of the marriage ceremony around the world, but I believe it was probably born out of similar problems. I mean think about it, it does make it a lot simpler legally and opens the system to less abuse when everything can be publicly thrown out there on a given day with vows and witnesses etc...


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## VictorBravo (Oct 29, 2008)

Abd_Yesua_alMasih said:


> Okay so my answer is hardly scholarly and is based on what I learned in a public high school a number of years ago. I doubt it is the ultimate origin of marriage as we know it but it could be a step in the right direction.
> 
> In our history of England class we had to cover the reign of Queen Elizabeth. One of the reforms she brought through (or back can't remember ) was the marriage ceremony to be witnessed to by the church. Before this marriages were as you said, simply consummated and everyone sort of acknowledged it. The problem was that this caused lots of legal issues. Were they really married? Had anyone actually intended to be bound or was it just a fling? Who was to be held accountable for unwanted pregnancies? All sorts of problems arose with one family or another saying their daughter had been disgraced etc... So it seemed prudent to make couples say formal vows and go through a public ceremony that afterwards could not be disputed to have happened.
> 
> Now I am not sure how much truth is in this, and it certainly doesn't explain the social origins of the marriage ceremony around the world, but I believe it was probably born out of similar problems. I mean think about it, it does make it a lot simpler legally and opens the system to less abuse when everything can be publicly thrown out there on a given day with vows and witnesses etc...




Keep in mind that the Roman Catholic Chuch considered marriage (presumably including a ceremony) as a sacrament from at least the era of Trent and before. It was one of the things that the Scottish Reformers rejected, to the point of not having wedding rings. But even so, they had a ceremony to provide a public witness.

What you bring up about the common law is interesting. There are vestiges of it in some of our states to this day. For instance, in Montana, a marriage is recognized as valid even without a ceremony if the parties meet three requirements: they hold themselves out as married, they live together, and they actually intended (or considered themselves) to be married. There are some interesting cases that come up.

One case involved an old rancher widower who hired a housekeeper. She lived with him for years until he finally died. He was without a will, and his children wanted the ranch. The court held that the housekeeper inherited because she was his wife. She had demonstrated that she had been introduced by the rancher as "Mrs. . . ." and claimed her as his wife. She received mail addressed to "Mrs. . . . ." 

A bit of frontier logic, maybe, but still valid there.


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## Abd_Yesua_alMasih (Oct 29, 2008)

I can't claim my answer was perfect due to only being mentioned once during my last year of high school and now being recalled five years later.

That case of the rancher and his "wife" is a good example of why marriage has been given a more public ceremony to go along with it. A family gathering or a private little event with no third-party witnesses or public testimony is dangerous from a legal point - as was seen with the rancher. I mean maybe they considered themselves married, maybe they didn't. The point is what people consider themselves to be always changes in the event of a divorce or court battle (or after death the rancher couldn't come back and say hey we were never married).

So what are the earliest mentions of marriage then as the current ceremony? Obviously levels of it existed in the Roman world and I assume in the Greek world as well (although not common and as I understand it not required for marriage in the ultimate legal sense). 

I wonder if the Catholics adopted it as a sacrament for the same reasons I said Elizabeth did? Anyone with a good knowledge of French or continental history could wade into that one.


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