# PCUSA to Make Sodomite Ordination Official?



## Fly Caster (May 10, 2011)

I'm reading that the presbyteries of the of the PCUSA are expected to ratify this abomination today with the needed 87th vote in favor.

Twin Cities Presbyterians could clear the way for gay clergy


Guess it's time for a fresh round of explaining to friends and family that I did not leave my life-long Baptist affiliation for _this._


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## Notthemama1984 (May 10, 2011)

I thought this happened awhile back?


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## Fly Caster (May 10, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> I thought this happened awhile back?



Apparently it passed in General Assembly, needing ratification by a majority of prebyteries. I believe it has passed before but failed ratification.


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## J. Dean (May 10, 2011)

Are you in a PCUSA church?


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## Grillsy (May 10, 2011)

Fly Caster said:


> PCUSA to Make *Sodomite* Ordination Official?



I didn't know that city was still on the map.


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## Osage Bluestem (May 10, 2011)

Unfortunately the media just uses the term "Presbyterians." When I was a member of a PCA church I had to defend against misinformation all the time from people who thought that all Presbyterians are liberal.

The PC-USA is virtually apostate and has brought shame on the entire reformation.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 10, 2011)

J. Dean said:


> Are you in a PCUSA church?


 
Nope


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 10, 2011)

It has been unofficially official for a while now. This a mere waving of the hand. 

Though to be honest to be worried about this in the PC(USA) is akin to wondering if the boilers were still operating as the Titanic slipped under the waves. Be gone from that place!


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## Marrow Man (May 10, 2011)

This is a symptom and not at the heart of the problem. Once biblical authority has been rejected by a denomination, things like this just follow (although it may take a while).

Louisville is the HQ of the PC(USA). There are many such churches here. Let me take the opportunity to invite any folks in the PC(USA) who might be reading this thread to come worship with us at Midlane Park ARP Church this coming Lord's Day. You also have the option of worshipping at Redeemer PCA. There are some godly options out there.


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## Wayne (May 10, 2011)

The GA Junkie blog has an article on this up currently: The GA Junkie

"PC(USA) Polity Implications Of Amendment 10-A Passage"

The Layman.org site is another good location for following matters in the PC(USA): The Layman Online


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## Fly Caster (May 10, 2011)

J. Dean said:


> Are you in a PCUSA church?


 
No. But too many of my dozens of cousins will read the papers tomorrow and say "Didn't Tim join a Presbyterian Church a few years ago...?"


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## torstar (May 10, 2011)

Keep saying "That's PC-YOU ESS AYYYYYYYY!, not mine."

I have enough trouble trying to tell people that URCNA is one of the rare times UNITED is in a positive Reformed/Christian organization.

The Layman Online?? So that was their agenda all along?


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## MLCOPE2 (May 10, 2011)

I think I just threw up in my mouth.


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## sastark (May 10, 2011)

Wayne said:


> The Layman.org site is another good location for following matters in the PC(USA): The Layman Online




Speaking of The Layman Online, here is a letter to the editor by my own Pastor Kent Moorlach which was posted at The Layman (Tim, this directly speaks to your issue of being "Presbyterian"):



> *PCUSA will ultimately be supplanted by a more faithful Presbyterian denomination*
> 
> Posted Thursday, March 24, 2011
> 
> ...


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 10, 2011)

Wow. That may be the best letter detailing the issue I have ever read. Excellent!

---------- Post added at 01:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:03 PM ----------

By the way, contrast what the faithful gospel minister of Communion Presbyterian Church, ARP said with the words of a heretic at another Communion Presbyterian Church, PC(USA) in California.



> Scripture does not support heterosexual monogamy
> Posted Monday, May 9, 2011
> 
> In response: What the PCUSA confessions say about marriage
> ...


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## Fly Caster (May 10, 2011)

Good article, Seth. Thanks.

In spite of my consternation, I'm all for retaining the Presbyterian name. 

I'm now a "Southern Presbyterian," so that makes two identities, in one phrase, that I am not willing to give up even though the true meaning is hijacked and maligned by the liberals.


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## DMcFadden (May 10, 2011)

Seth,

That was a brilliantly and indisputably-fact-based letter! It describes pretty much the whole mainline experience, regardless of polity. The episcopal, presbyterian, and congregational polities have all been "gamed" by the modernist agenda. My judicatory pulled out, practically _en masse_, from the mainline ABCUSA more than 5 years ago. With the exception of the denomination-specific features of the letter, it unfortunately captures the spirit of the mainline in America into this century.

The problem, dear friends, is not about our polity (or even Calvinism vs. Arminianism, even granting that there are some connections here), but about a biblical vs. a secularist approach to the Bible. One need not be a card-carrying Clarkian to appreciate his persuasive case against Secular Rationalism, Empiricism, AND Irrationality. Without the axiom (or "presupposition") of Revelation, we are epistemologically hopeless! Both Calvinists and Arminians (despite their seriously defective theology) who hold to an inerrant Bible stand on one side of a chasm separated from modernist "Calvinists-lite" and mainliners of a more Arminian heritage.


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## Edward (May 10, 2011)

If you click on the first link above, don't miss reading the cutline under the picture.


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## Rufus (May 10, 2011)

So does this mean the few conservative PCUSA churches are gonna leave?


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## Notthemama1984 (May 10, 2011)

> Observers Tricia Dykers Koenig, left, and Michelle Ready, right, smile as the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church meeting Thursday, July 8, 2010 in Minneapolis votes to approve lifting the churches ban on ordaining non-celibate gays and lesbians as clergy.



Does the above refer to the PCUSA allowing abstinate gays to be clergy, but now they are going to allow practicing gays?

---------- Post added at 07:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------




Rufus said:


> So does this mean the few conservative PCUSA churches are gonna leave?



What conservative churches? 

The EPC is gaining PCUSA churches by the bucketloads and I am worried that most are not what we here on PB would call "conservative."


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## MMasztal (May 10, 2011)

The PCUSA is losing members (and congregations) by the thousands every year. Maybe a move like this will hasten and seal their fate.


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## Rufus (May 10, 2011)

> The EPC is gaining PCUSA churches by the bucketloads and I am worried that most are not what we here on PB would call "conservative."


Aren't there a few PCUSA members right here on the PB?


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## DMcFadden (May 10, 2011)

> LOUISVILLE
> 
> A majority of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.)’s 173 presbyteries have ratified an amendment to the church’s constitution that removes a provision flatly prohibiting the ordination of sexually active unmarried Presbyterians as church officers.
> 
> ...



"No blanket judgments"??? Hmmmm.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 10, 2011)

Ironically they picked my anniversary to make it official (and John Calvin's birthday).


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## Wayne (May 10, 2011)

> The PCUSA is losing members (and congregations) by the thousands every year. Maybe a move like this will hasten and seal their fate.



Due mostly to their legal structure, whereby the presbytery owns the local congregation's property, most churches will stay regardless. People, meanwhile, will continue to leave. 

Ultimately what I think will happen will be a merger with the likes of the UCC, or more likely, some mega-merger (UCC/ELCA/etc.).

I do think that the whole affair has caused some in that denomination to rethink their faith and to become more faithfully biblical as a result.


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## Scottish Lass (May 10, 2011)

Wayne said:


> Due mostly to their legal structure, whereby the presbytery owns the local congregation's property, most churches will stay regardless. People, meanwhile, will continue to leave.




The secular courts don't always agree, but the cost of the lawsuits can run as much (or more) than the settlements. Would that the congregations would prize fidelity to the word of God over a building.


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