# Agribusiness: Chemicals and God's Creation



## RamistThomist (Apr 7, 2015)

I'm on the fence on this issue. I know it's easy to attack Monsanto, and Big Govt America generally isn't friendly to vibrant, small-town communities, but are all manifestations of Agribusiness bad? I keep seeing the argument that Big-Ag can multiply food on large scales (which seems to help with poverty and starvation) but it destroys the soil over the long term. Is this true?


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## TexanRose (Apr 8, 2015)

After some cursory reading here and there, I've come to the following conclusions: Big Ag is the easy way to multiply food on large scales, but not the only way. Food production can also be maximized via more natural farming practices, with fewer long-term consequences (like the collapse of the honeybee population), but the more natural practices would be more labor intensive and therefore more expensive. 

I think agribusiness is a fascinating topic, and hope that others will have something more substantial to contribute.


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## Pergamum (Apr 8, 2015)

The places where Big Ag and organic grass-fed food are most protested are places where people can afford to protest it without starving. Folks in starving countries usually don't have a problem (though some Indian farmers have committed suicide when Monsanto grains got over into their fields...I'll have to google the story). Lots of cheap feed beats worries over chemicals in much of the world still, though I still feel uneasy about the decreasing variety of seed-types and have read that such developments over time are leeching away at the nutrition in each bushel-load.


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## Pergamum (Apr 8, 2015)

Here are links about the suicides of Indian farmers:

Rising suicide rate for Indian farmers blamed on GMO seeds ? RT News

The Seeds Of Suicide: How Monsanto Destroys Farming | Global Research - Centre for Research on Globalization

Farmers' suicides in India - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

GM crops, Indian farmers and suicide: GM genocide? | The Economist


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## Romans922 (Apr 8, 2015)

Growing up on a farm has helped me understand this issue. My dad who still farms doesn't like Monsanto. He is a small scale farmer. But there isn't much for him to choose from besides them in the last few years. Monsanto has the Dept. of Ag on lock, as many of their higher ups have come into leadership in Dept. of Ag. Because of this, not doing what Monsanto wants, not buying from Monsanto is very difficult (increasingly). Where this all starts is back in the 70's when they started doing high-scale genetics with crops and not allowing the farmer to keep seed from previous years and reuse it the next. Why because that would mess up big AGs new system. It is highly illegal to reuse seed and you can lose your whole farm doing it. The new thing in the 70's was taken on by farmers without much complaint because farming then was way more difficult than it was today, and so allowed the farmer to be now subsidized. But to be subsidized you have to do what the govt wants you to do. 

Enter in pesticides/herbicides to kill weeds/critters. Why? $$$ They are being used more and more every year. This is the same thing with vaccines (which some of you may disagree with me on -- let's not go on a tangent). If you keep using the same pesticides/herbicides, what happens. Those weeds/critters are going to adapt over time and become immune to those killers. So now you need more and more powerful pesticides/herbicides. Is this the best thing for our having dominion over the earth, our best way of taking care of it? Me thinks not. All this to produce the most amount of crop, the most amount of meat (animals are coming in a sec - see below). Enter more genetics to get this done. A corn cob today is like 2x the size of one when i was a kid. So where does most of our corn go (for instance) - china --> feed chickens or US --> ethanol. So you feed chickens, so now all the genetics (everything gone into that) and the herbicides/pesticides on that corn are being eaten by chickens. We eat chicken; we are eating more and more powerful pesticides/herbicides. Same with cattle, etc. You know that in the 1940's when pesticides were first starting to be used only about 7% of crops were lost to pests. 1980's after huge growth in pesticide use - 13% were lost to pests. I'm sure that number is greater today.

So animals. How are cattle (I know this better since my dad raised them) to be raised for production of beef? What are cattle supposed to eat? Grass. But most (especially steers which are what we eat from store) today are fed corn/grass (hay) and extra synthetic protein added in. These as you know are mostly in US kept in feed lots. Growing cattle faster = $$$$. To do this you use corn and other variations of crops. So their diet is different than what it is supposed to be. If you go to a feedlot you will see some steers who have had too much corn and their hooves are all messed up and they limp around everywhere. Step 1: wrong. 
Step 2 is the feedlot itself (not because of runoff of manure). But because of proximity. While cattle stay in herds, they are to be also spread out, not bunched up in close proximity (this is the same for all animals today when being mass produced). Because they are in close proximity, they get sicker more easily (disease). So what do all cattle get? Antibiotics and Vaccines. Things that have chemicals in it that you will end up eating if you eat that meat. And something that is not made for a human to consume whatsoever. Cattle are made to eat grass and be in not so closed quarters. 

Have you ever seen a chicken farm. Chickens are grown so fast today that at one point their bones are not able to support their body weight, and so they can't move well. 

So whether it is plants or animals, Big Ag, Monsanto, and the Dept of Ag have messed things up in my opinion, have brought great harm to the US and its people, and have produced a product that other nations in many instances refuse to take any part of it. There are some countries who will not accept food we make because it is just a bunch of genetics and fake food. Fun stuff. Good question Jacob. 



Oh soil, yes. What did farmers use to do with their crops to ensure the proper nutrients were there? They rotated crops. According to Scripture there (by principle) should be a 7 year sabbath for fields. Why? At least 1 reason to help nutrients replenish. But today you just put some fertilizer down (anhydrous ammonia, lime, etc.). The rotation of crops is important. That's why if any one here gardens, you should know that planting tomato plants in the exact same spot as the year before isn't the best idea. You typically aren't going to get as good of a crop as the previous year. And you can actually ruin soil being doing this. But today we don't care about that we just put some fertilizer down and BAM 'fake' nutrients for crops.


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## RamistThomist (Apr 8, 2015)

Romans922 said:


> Growing up on a farm has helped me understand this issue. My dad who still farms doesn't like Monsanto. He is a small scale farmer. But there isn't much for him to choose from besides them in the last few years. Monsanto has the Dept. of Ag on lock, as many of their higher ups have come into leadership in Dept. of Ag. Because of this, not doing what Monsanto wants, not buying from Monsanto is very difficult (increasingly). Where this all starts is back in the 70's when they started doing high-scale genetics with crops and not allowing the farmer to keep seed from previous years and reuse it the next. Why because that would mess up big AGs new system. It is highly illegal to reuse seed and you can lose your whole farm doing it. The new thing in the 70's was taken on by farmers without much complaint because farming then was way more difficult than it was today, and so allowed the farmer to be now subsidized. But to be subsidized you have to do what the govt wants you to do.
> 
> Enter in pesticides/herbicides to kill weeds/critters. Why? $$$ They are being used more and more every year. This is the same thing with vaccines (which some of you may disagree with me on -- let's not go on a tangent). If you keep using the same pesticides/herbicides, what happens. Those weeds/critters are going to adapt over time and become immune to those killers. So now you need more and more powerful pesticides/herbicides. Is this the best thing for our having dominion over the earth, our best way of taking care of it? Me thinks not. All this to produce the most amount of crop, the most amount of meat (animals are coming in a sec - see below). Enter more genetics to get this done. A corn cob today is like 2x the size of one when i was a kid. So where does most of our corn go (for instance) - china --> feed chickens or US --> ethanol. So you feed chickens, so now all the genetics (everything gone into that) and the herbicides/pesticides on that corn are being eaten by chickens. We eat chicken; we are eating more and more powerful pesticides/herbicides. Same with cattle, etc. You know that in the 1940's when pesticides were first starting to be used only about 7% of crops were lost to pests. 1980's after huge growth in pesticide use - 13% were lost to pests. I'm sure that number is greater today.
> 
> ...



That's where I was going with it. I grew up on the periphery of farms, though my immediate family didn't farm directly (I actually think I own farmland in central Louisiana. Well, I haven't inherited it yet).


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## FCC (Apr 9, 2015)

Romans922 said:


> Growing up on a farm has helped me understand this issue. My dad who still farms doesn't like Monsanto. He is a small scale farmer. But there isn't much for him to choose from besides them in the last few years. Monsanto has the Dept. of Ag on lock, as many of their higher ups have come into leadership in Dept. of Ag. Because of this, not doing what Monsanto wants, not buying from Monsanto is very difficult (increasingly). Where this all starts is back in the 70's when they started doing high-scale genetics with crops and not allowing the farmer to keep seed from previous years and reuse it the next. Why because that would mess up big AGs new system. It is highly illegal to reuse seed and you can lose your whole farm doing it. The new thing in the 70's was taken on by farmers without much complaint because farming then was way more difficult than it was today, and so allowed the farmer to be now subsidized. But to be subsidized you have to do what the govt wants you to do.
> 
> Enter in pesticides/herbicides to kill weeds/critters. Why? $$$ They are being used more and more every year. This is the same thing with vaccines (which some of you may disagree with me on -- let's not go on a tangent). If you keep using the same pesticides/herbicides, what happens. Those weeds/critters are going to adapt over time and become immune to those killers. So now you need more and more powerful pesticides/herbicides. Is this the best thing for our having dominion over the earth, our best way of taking care of it? Me thinks not. All this to produce the most amount of crop, the most amount of meat (animals are coming in a sec - see below). Enter more genetics to get this done. A corn cob today is like 2x the size of one when i was a kid. So where does most of our corn go (for instance) - china --> feed chickens or US --> ethanol. So you feed chickens, so now all the genetics (everything gone into that) and the herbicides/pesticides on that corn are being eaten by chickens. We eat chicken; we are eating more and more powerful pesticides/herbicides. Same with cattle, etc. You know that in the 1940's when pesticides were first starting to be used only about 7% of crops were lost to pests. 1980's after huge growth in pesticide use - 13% were lost to pests. I'm sure that number is greater today.
> 
> ...



Amen Brother Barnes! I have done quite a bit of research and reading on this topic and agree with you. The Bible does deal with agriculture and we should obey the good Lord's commands in this area as much as in others! It is, to me, and I know many disagree, a sign of our sin that we abuse the land and animals so much. There are several viable methods to increasing food production naturally that should be considered and are not because of big business, government and agriculture. We need to repent of our mistreatment of the land and animals and implement biblical principles of agriculture and food production, then God would bless the land!

Just my


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## solas4me (Apr 9, 2015)

Our family has a small hobby farm / homestead. We try to raise things as naturally as possible here (sheep, chickens, fruit, vegetables). We recognize the
difficulty in being 100% natural and have had to use some chemicals in a limited manner. I think that bigAg and pharmaceutical companies have indeed had the
lobbying power to influence the way we produce food and it has been detrimental to the health of Americans. I also recognize the value of some chemicals and/or
pharmaceuticals. Sometimes it is good to look retrospectively at past farming practices and realize what they were able to do 100 years ago without hybrid animals,
pesticides, chemicals etc. To Pergamums point (his family has been to our small hobby farm /homestead) bigAg and pharmaceuticals have made great in roads into
places that struggle to feed their people. It is a real balance that needs to be thought about deliberately and prayerfully. Thanks for the conversation, it's something
our family thinks about and lives.


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