# Halloween



## ValleyofVision (Oct 31, 2017)

There may already be a post about this topic but, do you partake in Halloween? Meaning, if you have children, do you allow them to dress up and go trick-or-treating? Do you watch Halloween Movies? Do you hand out candy to children? 

I was reading an article today that I thought gave some great insight:


"Christians should exercise caution as wise stewards of their possessions and protectors of their families. Christian young people should stay away from secular Halloween parties since those are breeding grounds for trouble. Christian parents can protect their children by keeping them well-supervised and restricting treat consumption to those goodies received from trusted sources."

"Christians should respond to Halloween with gospel compassion. The unbelieving, Christ-rejecting world lives in perpetual fear of death. It isn't just the experience of death, but rather what the Bible calls "a certain terrifying expectation of judgment, and the fury of a fire which will consume [God's] adversaries" (Hebrews 10:27). Witches, ghosts, and evil spirits are not terrifying; God's wrath unleashed on the unforgiven sinner—now that is _truly_ terrifying."


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## Ed Walsh (Oct 31, 2017)

ValleyofVision said:


> There may already be a post about this topic but, do you partake in Halloween? Meaning, if you have children, do you allow them to dress up and go trick-or-treating? Do you watch Halloween Movies? Do you hand out candy to children?



No. No. No. Yes (we used to include tracts) - blessed inconsistency.


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## Parakaleo (Oct 31, 2017)

No. We have moved decisively away from having anything to do with occultist practices. 

This is a very good treatment of the Halloween issue from Rev. Silversides.


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## ValleyofVision (Oct 31, 2017)

I would like to make it clear that we do NOT participate in Halloween or activities.

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## Jack K (Oct 31, 2017)

When our kids were young, we took part in neighborhood trick-or-treating. It's a good way to meet neighbors and do something fun with them. We tried to steer clear of anything occult-like, which was fairly easy. Most people in our neighborhood would rather dress their kid as a princess than as a witch.

Our church, which is in the heart of the city's busiest trick-or-treating area, opens its doors and offers games for kids and hot chocolate for their parents. It isn't a Halloween event, _per se_. Rather, we noticed all those people walking by our doors each year and thought, "Why not invite them in?" They're more likely to come back for a service if they've been through the doors before for some other reason, and this lets us meet people. Over the years, we've had a handful families who first stopped by on Halloween night decide to start attending services and eventually become believers.

So tonight, I will be at church helping say hello to literally thousands of strangers, offering them hot chocolate, telling kids their costume looks great, etc. Just being friendly.

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## OPC'n (Oct 31, 2017)

I do hand out candy, although, this year we haven't had one trick-or-treater . I ended up just setting the candy outside on the porch lol. I don't see Halloween as being of the occult anymore than I see Christmas as being a pagan holiday. I've never celebrated Easter so I don't have any thoughts on that one. I really doubt that people take their kids around to gather candy and then go home to worship satan etc. It's just something fun for the kids to do and get a bunch of candy at the same time.

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## Ryan J. Ross (Nov 1, 2017)

I don’t care for it. I never have. My daughter grew up knowing that her dad doesn’t observe any holidays and she’s adopted the same position at four years old. Today, we went to the playground, took a nap, bought some eggs and hash browns at the store, and went home to play. 

I don’t personally have any concerns about dressing up or giving/receiving candy. If someone was keeping/observing the day as special, I might. My daughter and I only keep 52 days per year as special and have no problem dressing up or giving presents on any day.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Nov 2, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> I really doubt that people take their kids around to gather candy and then go home to worship Satan etc.



I nominate this for PB quote of the month.

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## jw (Nov 2, 2017)

In Soviet Russia, Halloween observes YOU!

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## Parakaleo (Nov 2, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> I really doubt that people take their kids around to gather candy and then go home to worship Satan etc.



Except Christians in past ages preferred to die than to offer incense to Roman gods, even when they were told it doesn't have to be sincere. The Hebrew youths knew they didn't have to _really _worship the image, but they preferred to die rather than kneel before it in a totally empty fashion. Then there's Daniel himself, who could have prayed to God in the dark lying on his bed and escaped all notice of his enemies. Instead, he prayed to God in full view of his open window, knowing death could be a very real consequence.

When it comes to spiritually-charged exercises that are known to involve communing with demons, the witness we have from Scripture is that we would not even seem to commune with demons. Additionally, we should not mind the reproach that comes from taking a firm stand against idolatry. God's testimony is that we should hate even the garment that it is spotted by the flesh (Jude 23).

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## jwithnell (Nov 2, 2017)

I just don't see the point of calling evil good. We don't participate.

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## OPC'n (Nov 2, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> Except Christians in past ages preferred to die than to offer incense to Roman gods, even when they were told it doesn't have to be sincere. The Hebrew youths knew they didn't have to _really _worship the image, but they preferred to die rather than kneel before it in a totally empty fashion. Then there's Daniel himself, who could have prayed to God in the dark lying on his bed and escaped all notice of his enemies. Instead, he prayed to God in full view of his open window, knowing death could be a very real consequence.
> 
> When it comes to spiritually-charged exercises that are known to involve communing with demons, the witness we have from Scripture is that we would not even seem to commune with demons. Additionally, we should not mind the reproach that comes from taking a firm stand against idolatry. God's testimony is that we should hate even the garment that it is spotted by the flesh (Jude 23).



I totally agree with all of this. And if Halloween was about praying to idols or communing with demons I would never buy the candy that the kids would use to offer to those idols/demons.


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Nov 2, 2017)

*"I really doubt that people take their kids around to gather candy and then go home to worship Satan etc."*
That's not the underlying issue. If it was, it would be easy to discern. They would be _practicing_ Satanists.

"...people take their kids around to gather candy" on Halloween is _ipso facto_, participating in the "purpose of the day". 
If the purpose of the holy-day of All Hallows Eve _is _Satanic (and it is), and the act of gathering candy on one of the two most treasured Satanic Holidays is part of the tradition of the Satanism associated with that day, the act of participating or even acquiescing _is _participation whether one "intends" the projected end or not.

Like someone saying, when I commit the act of adultery, I don't intend participation in adultery. _That won't fly._
When I gather candy with the kids on a Satanic holiday, and carve out jack-o-lanterns, I don't intend participation in the Satanic holiday. _Neither will this fly._

"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them." (Eph. 5:11).
Even the "appearance of evil", "Abstain from all _appearance _of evil." (1 Th. 5:22).
Even if Halloween "appears" evil, (and its much more than that) its to be rejected.

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## Parakaleo (Nov 2, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> I totally agree with all of this. And if Halloween was about praying to idols or communing with demons I would never buy the candy that the kids would use to offer to those idols/demons.



First of all, many of our neighbors are absolutely using Halloween as a way to interface with the numinous world, or the world of spirits. Even little children who are taught that it’s fun to read ghost stories and have a “spine-tingling” experience on Halloween are communing with demons. Whatever exercise that seeks to “tap into” the spiritual world in any way is, by definition, a religious exercise. Unless it is done to God and as God commanded, it is idolatrous. This is not “dress like a pirate day” at the donut shop, which has nothing to do with the spiritual world, but Halloween. All Hallows’ Eve. 

Furthermore, handing out candy is meant to avert curses. That was the original purpose. It doesn’t matter if no one thinks about it that way anymore. We are still required to abolish monuments of idolatry.

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## chuckd (Nov 2, 2017)

We took our 3 year old trick or treating. She dressed up as a princess and had a great time. Don't hand out candy because the houses are a ways apart in our neighborhood and nobody trick or treats. I'm not aware of any halloween movies so we didn't watch those.


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## RamistThomist (Nov 2, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> First of all, many of our neighbors are absolutely using Halloween as a way to interface with the numinous world, or the world of spirits. Even little children who are taught that it’s fun to read ghost stories and have a “spine-tingling” experience on Halloween are communing with demons. Whatever exercise that seeks to “tap into” the spiritual world in any way is, by definition, a religious exercise. Unless it is done to God and as God commanded, it is idolatrous. This is not “dress like a pirate day” at the donut shop, which has nothing to do with the spiritual world, but Halloween. All Hallows’ Eve.
> 
> Furthermore, handing out candy is meant to avert curses. That was the original purpose. It doesn’t matter if no one thinks about it that way anymore. We are still required to abolish monuments of idolatry.



While I probably believe the occult is more real than 99.99% of the board (most seem to adopt the David Hume view on modern day supernatural), and while I've actually had encounters with demonic entities, I strongly doubt "most of our neighbors" are using Halloween to interface with the spirit realm. If one were in Washington DC or Hollywood, then sure, that's a reasonable argument.

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## OPC'n (Nov 2, 2017)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> *"I really doubt that people take their kids around to gather candy and then go home to worship Satan etc."*
> That's not the underlying issue. If it was, it would be easy to discern. They would be _practicing_ Satanists.
> 
> "...people take their kids around to gather candy" on Halloween is _ipso facto_, participating in the "purpose of the day".
> ...



As Christians, should we (generations of Christians) have never celebrated Christmas? Christmas, like Halloween, was a pagan holiday turned Christian. Christians celebrate Christmas either for its own sake or bc they think Christ was born then. But the way everyone celebrates Christmas (tree, lights, gift giving) is the manner in which some pagans (various nations celebrated differently) celebrated it. Even if there are some Christians who don't have trees or lights or gift giving, they are still celebrating Christmas. Are we to assume that for generations (this includes people like John Calvin) were in participating in the "purpose of the day" that being pagan worship? If Christmas can be stripped from its original intent, why would Halloween not be able to overcome its original intent? 

"Like someone saying, when I commit the act of adultery, I don't intend participation in adultery". I'm not sure you would find anyone who would say this. How you're trying to connect it with Halloween I'm going to have to take a leap to see your point. If every time someone open the door and stated, "I give you this piece of candy to offer to the god of "__" or to Satan." and the receiver said, "Well, okies! Think I'll just eat it cuz I don't worship Satan even though I'm the only person out gathering candy who doesn't believe Halloween is a time for worshipping Satan."......then I guess I could see your connection. But the connection fails because the amount of people who associate Halloween with Satan worship is probably comparable to those who associate Christmas with pagan worship. I certainly don't associate to Satan worship....not even close. But I don't mind saying we shall agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's not that big of a deal to me (halloween that is......Christmas? I'll fight you over  )


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## zsmcd (Nov 2, 2017)

ValleyofVision said:


> There may already be a post about this topic but, do you partake in Halloween? Meaning, if you have children, do you allow them to dress up and go trick-or-treating? Do you watch Halloween Movies? Do you hand out candy to children?



Our children are almost too young to "celebrate Halloween" but just for fun we let our two year old daughter dress up as Belle and put a winter suit on my newborn son that looks like a bear (Beast). Absolutely nothing occultist or evil about it, just good clean (& cute) fun.

As far as trick-or-treating goes, we didn't go this year but we did go out to get some Mexican food with the kids in their costumes. In the future, if our neighborhood is good and doesn't act crudely or occultist than we will probably let our kids dress up in fun outfits and go around for candy.

We also carved a pumpkin with a puppy's face on it while we watched _Its the Great Pumpkin, Charlie Brown! _and my wife decorated another pumpkin writing _post tenebras lux _on it.

As with anything we have to keep on our guard. But I don't see anything wrong with carving a pumpkin, dressing up as a silly character, or eating candy corn. Where we may start crossing the line is when we put our children in danger by taking them to a Halloween party where men and women are half naked and where people are celebrating the occult/death/idolatry etc. Paul tells us to take no part in evil deeds of darkness, but to expose them instead. There is nothing evil about candy corn or a carved pumpkin with a puppy face on it, or ringing a neighbors doorbell and asking for candy. So I don't think we need to veer away from these things unless your conscience can't handle it. But we should be engaged in exposing the actual wicked ways that people take part in the day.

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## Parakaleo (Nov 2, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> As Christians, should we (generations of Christians) have never celebrated Christmas?



Precisely. "Learn not the way of the heathen... the customs of the people are vain," Jeremiah 10:2,3. If previous generations had not acquiesced to pagan holidays and engaged in syncretism, we wouldn't be in the difficult position now of turning back the great tide of sin.

I'm reminded of Haggai, a book with two chapters concerning the Lord's command to rebuild the temple. When the people failed to complete the work, God sent Zechariah, who prophesied fourteen chapters on much the same subject.



zsmcd said:


> Absolutely nothing occultist or evil about it, just good clean (& cute) fun.



However "G-rated" your activities on October 31st may be, if there is any resemblance to Halloween festivities, one cannot deny they are still "holding a candle" for Halloween, with all its idolatry. All I am saying is: don't hold that candle. Abolish the monument of idolatry. Hate even the garment spotted by the flesh (Jude 23). Let your desire be that _all memory_ of Halloween would be forgotten, and act accordingly.

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## RamistThomist (Nov 2, 2017)

Hypothetically, if today I go to each of my neighbors with a bucket and ask for candy, do I sin? (Sure, it's bad form but that's not the same thing)


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## zsmcd (Nov 2, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> However "G-rated" your activities on October 31st may be, if there is any resemblance to Halloween festivities, one cannot deny they are still "holding a candle" for Halloween, with all its idolatry. All I am saying is: don't hold that candle. Abolish the monument of idolatry. Hate even the garment spotted by the flesh (Jude 23). Let your desire be that _all memory_ of Halloween would be forgotten, and act accordingly.



Its not a matter of "G rating," as if we are comparing degrees of sin. There is nothing sinful about the act of dressing up as a princess or eating candy. Are you "holding the candle" if you eat a single M&M on October 31st but on November 1st all is good and well? Candy, laughter, pumpkins and the day of October 31st belong to Jesus and thus you and me. These things do not belong to Satan and his minions who lives down the street from me - so why let them have it? Why can't I use them to God's glory and my families enjoyment?

We can debate the history (memory) of Halloween all day, but my understanding is that it has no single origin that we can drive it back to - not even any serious cultic connection beyond what people have developed in the past century. Further, even if the "day" or "event" or whatever you want to identify it as has some background that is evil than why not apply this to everything? Good luck finding anything in your household or on your calendar that does not have a history tainted with sin. To me this is just the conservative Christian version of the liberals anti-gun agenda, "Guns kill people, start wars, and are stupid - down with the guns!" "Satan worshippers use this day, pumpkins, and costumes to call upon the dead - down with the candy!"

Of course, we have to be smart. I don't offer my recovering alcoholic friend a beer when he comes over for dinner. That would be stupid. And if I had a friend who just recently repented from using pumpkins to worship Satan than I probably wouldn't invite him over to carve _post tenebras lux_ into a pumpkin. 

I don't go around shouting "Happy Halloween!" and I wouldn't let my kids dress up as a witch and pretend to make potions. But I will let my daughter dress up as a princess because it is cute. And I will carve a pumpkin with my kids because it is fun and nostalgic and feels weird between your fingers. And I will demand candy from my neighbors because it tastes good.
_
_


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## RamistThomist (Nov 2, 2017)

(Trying to find a way to insert Alvin Plantinga and the Great Pumpkin Objection into this discussion).

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## OPC'n (Nov 2, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> Precisely. "Learn not the way of the heathen... the customs of the people are vain," Jeremiah 10:2,3. If previous generations had not acquiesced to pagan holidays and engaged in syncretism, we wouldn't be in the difficult position now of turning back the great tide of sin.
> 
> I'm reminded of Haggai, a book with two chapters concerning the Lord's command to rebuild the temple. When the people failed to complete the work, God sent Zechariah, who prophesied fourteen chapters on much the same subject.




New Years a pagan holiday: Caesar instituted January 1 as the first day of the year, partly to honor the month’s namesake: Janus, the Roman god of beginnings, whose two faces allowed him to look back into the past and forward into the future. Romans celebrated by offering sacrifices to Janus, exchanging gifts with one another, decorating their homes with laurel branches and attending raucous parties

Valentines a pagan holiday: Celebrated at the ides of February, or February 15, Lupercalia was a fertility festival dedicated to Faunus, the Roman god of agriculture, as well as to the Roman founders Romulus and Remus.

Thanksgiving celebrates the cultural genocide and conquest of Native Americans by colonists

You'll have to cross these off your holidays if you celebrate them.


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## zsmcd (Nov 2, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> Precisely. "Learn not the way of the heathen... the customs of the people are vain," Jeremiah 10:2,3. If previous generations had not acquiesced to pagan holidays and engaged in syncretism, we wouldn't be in the difficult position now of turning back the great tide of sin.



Do you call the seventh day "Saturday?" If so, this seems to be holding the candle of Roman idolatry more than dressing up, eating candy, and pulling seeds out of a pumpkin.

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## Ryan J. Ross (Nov 2, 2017)

zsmcd said:


> Its not a matter of "G rating," as if we are comparing degrees of sin. There is nothing sinful about the act of dressing up as a princess or eating candy. Are you "holding the candle" if you eat a single M&M on October 31st but on November 1st all is good and well? Candy, laughter, pumpkins and the day of October 31st belong to Jesus and thus you and me. These things do not belong to Satan and his minions who lives down the street from me - so why let them have it? Why can't I use them to God's glory and my families enjoyment?
> 
> We can debate the history (memory) of Halloween all day, but my understanding is that it has no single origin that we can drive it back to - not even any serious cultic connection beyond what people have developed in the past century. Further, even if the "day" or "event" or whatever you want to identify it as has some background that is evil than why not apply this to everything? Good luck finding anything in your household or on your calendar that does not have a history tainted with sin. To me this is just the conservative Christian version of the liberals anti-gun agenda, "Guns kill people, start wars, and are stupid - down with the guns!" "Satan worshippers use this day, pumpkins, and costumes to call upon the dead - down with the candy!"
> 
> ...



You can dress them up as an apothecary or a pharmacist. It’s basically the same thing as a potion-maker.


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## Ryan J. Ross (Nov 2, 2017)

OPC'n said:


> As Christians, should we (generations of Christians) have never celebrated Christmas? Christmas, like Halloween, was a pagan holiday turned Christian. Christians celebrate Christmas either for its own sake or bc they think Christ was born then. But the way everyone celebrates Christmas (tree, lights, gift giving) is the manner in which some pagans (various nations celebrated differently) celebrated it. Even if there are some Christians who don't have trees or lights or gift giving, they are still celebrating Christmas. Are we to assume that for generations (this includes people like John Calvin) were in participating in the "purpose of the day" that being pagan worship? If Christmas can be stripped from its original intent, why would Halloween not be able to overcome its original intent?
> 
> "Like someone saying, when I commit the act of adultery, I don't intend participation in adultery". I'm not sure you would find anyone who would say this. How you're trying to connect it with Halloween I'm going to have to take a leap to see your point. If every time someone open the door and stated, "I give you this piece of candy to offer to the god of "__" or to Satan." and the receiver said, "Well, okies! Think I'll just eat it cuz I don't worship Satan even though I'm the only person out gathering candy who doesn't believe Halloween is a time for worshipping Satan."......then I guess I could see your connection. But the connection fails because the amount of people who associate Halloween with Satan worship is probably comparable to those who associate Christmas with pagan worship. I certainly don't associate to Satan worship....not even close. But I don't mind saying we shall agree to disagree and leave it at that. It's not that big of a deal to me (halloween that is......Christmas? I'll fight you over  )



The Standards seem to prohibit Christmas, but cultural celebrations may have some warrant. I don’t care much for either and engage with activities associated with H and C almost everyday, but Christian’s infatuation with Christmas is odd to me.

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## Parakaleo (Nov 2, 2017)

zsmcd said:


> Are you "holding the candle" if you eat a single M&M on October 31st



Like Paul teaches the Corinthians, the answer would depend on the context, who gave it to you, and their impression of it.

Pagans and Romanists "gave" this holiday to us as meat sacrificed unto idols. We all know that meat sacrificed to idols is perfectly fine to eat, as long as the eating of it is totally divorced from any religious significance. Paul's language makes me think of meat wrapped in ordinary, brown paper that you buy at a butcher.

What Paul calls sin is eating meat when someone tells you, "This is sacrificed unto idols." This isn't meat in brown paper, but it's meat that someone has wrapped in "sacred black paper" (even if only in the mind). The second eating the meat takes on a religious significance in the eyes of the world, we are actually communing with devils when we eat it.

What I'm saying is that Halloween is pre-wrapped in idolatrous significance. You can try to celebrate "Halloween-lite" in your home and around your neighbors, by avoiding the most blatant excesses of the holiday, but you're still having fellowship with darkness.

Maybe there will be a time when carving pumpkins at the end of October and going door to door for candy will be without any reference to Halloween. That time has not arrived.



OPC'n said:


> You'll have to cross these off your holidays if you celebrate them.



I don't really, but even if I did, my inconsistency would not invalidate the argument I'm making. My impression is that during Christ's millennial reign, there will be plenty of occasional days of thanksgiving called by the church, but none of the holidays you have mentioned will be celebrated.



zsmcd said:


> Do you call the seventh day "Saturday?" If so, this seems to be holding the candle of Roman idolatry more than dressing up, eating candy, and pulling seeds out of a pumpkin.



This objection seems to come out quite often when people are frustrated with others for wanting to remove monuments of idolatry. Here's what [edit: Samuel Rutherford] has to say about it.

“The names of dayes to signifie civill times and things, out of a religious state is necessary now: and the Holy Ghost doth use for civill signification such termes, as Mars-street to signifie civill and meerely historically such a place. And the Ship whose signe is Castor & Pollux, yet these were heathen names, and most superstitious, and cannot be used in a religious state. I grant, we may not term our Jehovah, Jupiter or Baal; nor Christ, Mercurius, though he be the word of Gods mind to us, for God teacheth us other words and language in his Word. The truth is, that a learned noble Lord said well and judiciously, ‘all the indifference (in the world) lyeth in our understandings, and the darkenesse thereof—but there is none in the things themselves, or actions, which are still either unlawfull or necessarie.’ And this is most true in actions morall and humane.”

The Divine Right of Church Government, “A Dispute Touching Scandal and Christian Liberty” p. 54.

If the Holy Spirit used pagan names in a way to merely designate objects or times, we should not trouble ourselves with it, too much. When I call the seventh day of the week, "Saturday", I am not "getting in the spirit" of Saturn, and no one thinks I am, either. The same cannot be said about a person actually engaging in Halloween festivities.

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## Dachaser (Nov 2, 2017)

ValleyofVision said:


> There may already be a post about this topic but, do you partake in Halloween? Meaning, if you have children, do you allow them to dress up and go trick-or-treating? Do you watch Halloween Movies? Do you hand out candy to children?
> 
> I was reading an article today that I thought gave some great insight:
> 
> ...


We do Trunk and Treat at our church, where we hand out candy and tracts and try to be a witness for the Lord, so far had about 500 kids last 2 years turn out.


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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 2, 2017)

You mean Samuel Rutherford. Gillespie does not make the same point explicitly but he rejects objecting to the names of the week days as a papist extreme and Rutherford's argument fits Gillespie's syllogism which he gives in his Dispute Against the English Popish Ceremonies. http://www.naphtali.com/articles/ge...n-the-rule-for-purging-monuments-of-idolatry/
All things and rites which have been notoriously abused to idolatry,
if they are not such as either God or nature has made to be of
a necessary use, should be utterly abolished and purged away from
divine worship, in such sort that they may not be accounted nor
used by us as sacred things or rites pertaining to the same.
But the cross, surplice, kneeling in the act of receiving the communion,
&c., are things and rites, &c., and are not such as either
God or nature, &c.
Therefore they should be utterly abolished, &c.
§2. As for the proposition I shall first explain it, and then prove it. I say,
all things and rites, for they are alike forbidden, as I shall show. I say, which
have been notoriously abused to idolatry, because if the abuse is not known,
we are blameless for retaining the things and rites which have been abused.
I say, if they are not such as either God or nature has made to be of a necessary use, because if they are of a necessary use, either through God’s institution,
as the sacraments, or through nature’s law, as the opening of our mouths to
speak (for when I am to preach or pray publicly, nature makes it necessary
that I open my mouth to speak audibly and articularly), then the abuse cannot
take away the use. I say, they may not be used by us as sacred things, rites
pertaining to divine worship, because without [outside] the compass of worship
they may be used to a natural or civil purpose. If I could get no other
meat to eat than the consecrated host, which papists idolatrise [idolize] in
the circumgestation1 of it, I might lawfully eat it; and if I could get no other
clothes to put on than the holy garments wherein a priest has said mass, I
might lawfully wear them. Things abused to idolatry are only then unlawful
when they are used no otherwise than religiously, and as things sacred.​


Parakaleo said:


> Here's what George Gillespie

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## Parakaleo (Nov 2, 2017)

NaphtaliPress said:


> You mean Samuel Rutherford.



Thanks! I must have lost my train of thought when reading and flipping between tabs.


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## zsmcd (Nov 3, 2017)

Parakaleo said:


> Like Paul teaches the Corinthians, the answer would depend on the context, who gave it to you, and their impression of it.
> 
> Pagans and Romanists "gave" this holiday to us as meat sacrificed unto idols. We all know that meat sacrificed to idols is perfectly fine to eat, as long as the eating of it is totally divorced from any religious significance. Paul's language makes me think of meat wrapped in ordinary, brown paper that you buy at a butcher.
> 
> ...



Sorry, but you seem to be proving my point. First, before you can condemn “getting in the spirit of Halloween,” we have to define it, it’s history, and meaning in our particular communities. I don’t know about your community, but to the people I engage with in my community, October is typically a time to drink pumpkin spice lattes, dress up, and eat candy. In my 25 years of life I have never purchased a pumpkin from someone who was claiming that such had been dedicated to Satan. If it had been then I wouldn’t purchase it and I would call the seller to repent of their idolatry and instead turn to King Jesus. On the other hand, we have a day that has been proclaimed for who knows how long as being the day of the false god Saturn. From the start you encouraged me to hate even the garment spotted by the flesh. So are you hating this day that has been devoted to Saturn? No you don’t because it holds no religious significance to you and, in fact, probably serves to remind you that Saturn is a dumb idol who cannot speak, hear, or do anything. As I see it, Rutherford is doing what I am doing. I am saying that in my area of influence “Halloween” or “Harvest Day” or “October 31st” holds no occultist or religious meaning. No one is sacrificing to idols. Is there some weirdo in my city who probably is? Are there some communities where this sort of thing is more prevalent then others? Of course. This is why I said we need to be on guard and not be stupid.

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## RamistThomist (Nov 3, 2017)

zsmcd said:


> In my 25 years of life I have never purchased a pumpkin from someone who was claiming that such had been dedicated to Satan.



And that wins comment of the year.


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## earl40 (Nov 3, 2017)

BayouHuguenot said:


> And that wins comment of the year.



That is why we don't ask for the sake of conscience.


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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 4, 2017)

I'm willing to see the argument applied but I'm not sure the specific argument against retaining monuments of idolatry used by Gillespie and adduced by Calvin and some of the Reformed confessions from the destruction of the brazen serpent can be clearly applied against Halloween as to the old pretended holy days. We have a clear tract of church acts and history of some significance for the liturgical calendar Presbyterians tossed out at the Reformation. As with the holiday like Dec. 25th, Halloween has its American cultural element that is not connected to any religious activity. The broader culture sentimentalized and commercialized pretended holy days; stands to reason they'd do the same for a devil's day; but with Halloween, that dominates, and makes the application of this argument difficult for me to see as effective as other arguments traditionally used to have nothing to do with the day.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Nov 5, 2017)

I'm not too sure how truthful this is, but she seems to be knowledgeable. What do you think?


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## Ed Walsh (Nov 5, 2017)

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> If the purpose of the holy-day of All Hallows Eve _is _Satanic (and it is), and the act of gathering candy on one of the two most treasured Satanic Holidays is part of the tradition of the Satanism associated with that day, the act of participating or even acquiescing _is _participation whether one "intends" the projected end or not.



Here we have what the _bible_ says.

In The Satanic Bible, LaVey writes, "the two main Satanic holidays (after one's birthday), are Walpurgisnacht and Halloween."


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## Ed Walsh (Nov 5, 2017)

zsmcd said:


> Do you call the seventh day "Saturday?"



The Puritan, at least in New England, did not use these weekday names. They referred to them as the Lord's Day and they simply used numbers (1st day, 2nd day, etc.) for the other six days.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## NaphtaliPress (Nov 5, 2017)

While I wouldn't dispute trying to "start over" as it were with a new calendar, the difficulty in maintaining it shows in that this didn't last very long and the normal usage crept back into Massachusetts. But as the Presbyterian argument goes there was certainly no necessity of doing this; a difference with the more separatistic/independent puritans and sects such as the Quakers. 


Ed Walsh said:


> The Puritan, at least in New England, did not use these weekday names. They referred to them as the Lord's Day and they simply used numbers (1st day, 2nd day, etc.) for the other six days.


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