# Dress code in church



## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

Is there anything in The Westminster Confession of Faith in regard to this at all?


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 29, 2004)

No.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

Anywhere solid to get such opinions?


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## jfschultz (Nov 29, 2004)

The logical chapter for this is CHAPTER XXI Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath-day and it is silent on this, as is Scriptue. There might be something in the Directory of Publik Worship.

When one is going before the King of Kings in worship, shouldn't their dress be at least as good as they would wear before an earthly king?


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

> When one is going before the King of Kings in worship, shouldn't their dress be at least as good as they would wear before an earthly king?



Pretty much the argument I have been making.

Thanks!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Anywhere solid to get such opinions?



Do you have a specific question about proper attire in worship?


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

Well, I am debating with some people about how a situation of improper dress should be handled.

For example, a female comes to service in a small, short, sun dress that is somewhat provocotive. In fact, the pastor can see her underpants from the pulpit because she is sitting in the front row!

Those I am debating with think you should allow the woman to adapt to her surroundings and change on her own. I believe she should be lovingly confronted.


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## sastark (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jfschultz_
> The logical chapter for this is CHAPTER XXI Of Religious Worship and the Sabbath-day and it is silent on this, as is Scriptue. There might be something in the Directory of Publik Worship.
> 
> When one is going before the King of Kings in worship, shouldn't their dress be at least as good as they would wear before an earthly king?



I agree and disagree. Let's also remember that God looks not on the outward man, but on the inward heart.

Not saying there is anything wrong with dressing nicely. I'm just equally saying, there is nothing wrong with jeans and a t-shirt as long as your heart is right with God.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 29, 2004)

I personally think that we should all dress in plain black attire so that we look like we're at a funeral, er, I mean, so that we all look respectful and dignified.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

Ben and Seth, what about my specific woman in the short dress?


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 29, 2004)

Of course such a person should be confronted. She needs to be taught her responsiblity to dress modestly and to seek to dress in such a way as not to provide too easy an opportunity for men to lust. 
But that doesn't mean that we post a dress code on the door saying that you aren't welcome if your colors are a little too bright, or if your skirt is a half inch too short or if your wingtips aren't shiny enough, etc.


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## cupotea (Nov 29, 2004)

I didn't see that post before I started typing mine. But here it is anyway, though it says basically the same thing:

I agree that it's the heart that is important, not the appearance--hence jeans and a T-shirt are okay (or, should be). However, I admit it was pretty amusing when an elderly lady came to church wearing a tube top! Of course nobody said anything because it was the middle of summer and she did it because we don't have air conditioning. Sorry, this is getting a bit nuanced. My point is, provacative dress IS bad when it's meant to be provacative--especially if it's distracting. There's a problem when we can't concentrate on God because of what someone is wearing, or when we dress in a disrespectful manner. That is to say, when the clothing isn't doing its job of covering, such as when underwear shows.

[Edited on 29-11-2004 by Cottonball]


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> Well, I am debating with some people about how a situation of improper dress should be handled.
> 
> For example, a female comes to service in a small, short, sun dress that is somewhat provocotive. In fact, the pastor can see her underpants from the pulpit because she is sitting in the front row!
> ...



Well, the specifics of confrontation and the specifics of what constitutes proper dress I will leave to others, but the Westminster Larger Catechism in Q. 139 does specifically prohibit "immodest apparel." She certainly needs to be taught not only how to dress in public, but how to dress appropriate to the public worship of God. Modest apparel is the bare minimum (so to speak) that should be acceptable in church.


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## sastark (Nov 29, 2004)

Adam,

Sorry, I didn't see your specific example before I posted. Yes, the woman should be lovingly confronted. I didn't mean to advocate immodest dress. I was only trying to say that a tuxedo is not required.


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## matt01 (Nov 29, 2004)

Adam,

The young lady should be admonished to dress appropriately. I think about going to church in a similiar way to seeing the President (or the Queen). I would never go there is jeans and a t-shirt, nor will I go before the throne of the Lord of Lords in that type of clothing.


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## sastark (Nov 29, 2004)

Matthew,

I can understand, and even appreciate, your desire to dress as you would for the President or Queen, when you attend worship. But how important is what you are wearing to God? If all of our works are as filthly rags, then does it really matter if we put on better rags on Sunday monring than on Friday afternoon?

I'm not trying to convict you for dressing nicely for church. I'm only trying to get a point across that what we wear certainly doesn't matter to God.

(by the way - this post should be qualified by my previous post where I stated that I do not advocate immodest dress in church or anywhere else, for that matter.)


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## cupotea (Nov 29, 2004)




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## pastorway (Nov 29, 2004)

so what about believers in third world contries that only own one pair of clothing? Can they wear those "everyday" work clothes to church??

Getting all dressed up for church makes it look like we are in God's presence there at church, but no where else through the week.

He is everywhere and will never leave or forsake us. Should we then require dressing our "best" everyday?

Phillip

PS - of course we should expect modesty at ALL times too, not just in church.....

[Edited on 11-30-04 by pastorway]


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## Ianterrell (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> so what about believers in third world contries that only own one pair of clothing? Can they wear those "everyday" work clothes to church??
> 
> Getting all dressed up for church makes it look like we are in God's presence there at church, but no where else through the week.
> ...





My Sunday Best is my weekly best. I don't even own a suit.


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 29, 2004)

Phillip,
I believe the premise is that people would not go to dinner with G. Bush in jeans and a tattered t-shirt with Metalica on the front, but they seem to believe that it is fit for the king of Kings........If one is able to _keep_ themselves properly, they should make the effort; it's not a bad witness to maintain one's personal things.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Scott Bushey]


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## BobVigneault (Nov 29, 2004)

I must admit, I don't get dressed up all fancy for God but I do get dressed up fancy. We are filthy little sea slugs before God BUT....

I dress up out of respect for the expectations of others and if I had to come up with a proof text (or pretext) it would be the exhortation that, 'as much as it depends on you, live at peace with one another'. I worship with some wonderful ladies and gentlemen who have certain expectations. I dress in a manner worthy of them so that I may add to their worship celebration and not detract from it. I have nothing to prove with the way I dress so I will follow the path of least resistance. When I go to a business or a restaurant people are expected to dress a certain way. The way one dresses sends scads of unspoken messages to the folks around. I will not use my liberty to provoke others or to confuse my testimony with non essential issues.

Someone imodestly dressed in the worship service ought to be confronted, but lovingly and gently by an older woman or man. 

I guess I'm saying that we should dress as nicely as we are able as a spiritual service of worship to God and as a service of encourament to other.


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## tcalbrecht (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> Phillip,
> I believe the premise is that people would not go to dinner with G. Bush in jeans and a tattered t[shirt with Metalica on the front, but they seem to believe that it is fit for the king of Kings........



Some folks get married in a tux. Does that have implications for Sunday attire?


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## pastorway (Nov 29, 2004)

If all I owned was jeans and a tee shirt and the President wanted to meet me I am sure he would understand.

We are to give honor to whom it is due - if that means wearing a suit when meeting the President of the United States then so be it. But that does not mean that God finds our wordhip unacceptable if we are wearing "plain" clothes on Sunday.

Worship is about the heart attitude. A proper heart attitude will show in how we present ourselves. But nice clothes on the outside do not conceal a hardened selfish heart on the inside when we come to worship the Lord.

Beyond the expectation of modesty I think placeing requirements for dress upon people to come to church is beyond the scope and intent of Scripture and tends to list toward legalism - I dress nice so God must approve of me and my offering of praise and worship. Spirit and Truth are required. Suits and ties are not.

That is all I am saying.

We tend to be so materialistic and tend to look so HARD at the outside (and judge from that instead of esteeming ALL others as better than ourselves) that we forget that God simply does not care how we dress when we enter boldy to the Throne of Grace. Do you ever pray or sing praises in bed - wearing only pajamas?? Or while in the shower.......WHAT, entering God's presence with NO clothing at all?? 

We are coming dressed in the blood of His Son, and that is enough.

Phillip


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

The thing with me is I HATE to dress up. I have a 19" neck and a 49" chest. Try finding a dress shirt to fit those measurements! I own ONE dress shirt that allows me to button it at the neck! I have never learned to tie a tie and I am soon going to be 35 years old!

However, when I go to worship, I just have a desire to try and look my best. Not to please man or myself, not even to please the Lord. But to honor Him by dressing as if what I am going to do is very important and worthy of such efforts.

Before I came to the doctrines of grace I felt the opposite and often went to services in jeans and t-shirts, motor cycle boots and all. I could still do that and not feel like I was letting God down in any way, but I would feel like I could do better for what I was partaking of.

I dunno, does that make any sense?


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 29, 2004)

I repeat, "If one is able....." This means, if one has the means to dress, dress. If one does not, don't. It is not that the wearing of jeans or dirty clothes is not acceptable, it is the lackadaisical attitude when coming before the God of creation when one has the means to present himself with vigor with that God has given the man.

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Scott Bushey]


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## cupotea (Nov 29, 2004)

Ack, people have to stop posting at the same time as me! That's it, I'm always quoting when I use the ditto emoticon!


[Edited on 30-11-2004 by Cottonball]


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 29, 2004)

> it is the lackadaisical attitude when coming before the God of creation when one has the means to present himself with vigor with that God has given the man.



AMEN!!


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## cupotea (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by houseparent_
> 
> 
> > it is the lackadaisical attitude when coming before the God of creation when one has the means to present himself with vigor with that God has given the man.
> ...



Ok I sort of agree with that--it's definitely right to make an effort for God. But I don't think that the effort really has to regard clothing. Anyway, it's a social standard we've created that suits are better than jeans. Maybe God prefers jeans! They're definitely more comfortable, so that at least in the service, people can pay more attention rather than shifting and fidgeting in uncomfortable meaningless fancy clothes. But more likely, God doesn't care! If He did care, there would probably be something about it in the Bible.


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## Craig (Nov 29, 2004)

I generally don't dress up in more than a decent polo or button down shirt and nice slacks...

Last night, I wore a sweater and jeans to church.

I think some good guidlines for dress would be modesty, clothes that aren't distracting (i.e. clothing with large printed words,pictures,loud screaming colors). We are there to worship God, not dawn our new Sunday threads.

[Edited on 30-11-2004 by Craig]


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## cupotea (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> I generally don't dress up in more than a decent polo or button down shirt and nice slacks...
> 
> Last night, I wore a sweater and jeans to church.
> ...





our new Sunday threads.. hahaha


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## Authorised (Nov 29, 2004)

Modesty is important. I was attending a Wednesday night service and a good looking girl friend (not girlfriend) of mine came and sat near me, dressed in a t-shirt and short shorts. I was distracted, and my attention was focused on trying to control myself from lusting/looking rather than what my pastor was preaching. Is it my duty to keep my eyes to myself? Certainly yes, but why should I have to worry about that in church?

Personally, I dress nicely (a suit and tie) because the way I dress usually reflects my attitude toward the situation. 

To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven. I'm sure everyone on this board has specific clothes for every area of life, such as work, athletics, sleep, recreation, etc. Why should church be taken differently? Dress is cultural, and we show reverence both for God and his elect when we dress differently for church than we would for other areas of life. Would anyone here mow the lawn or do their gardening in a suit? Of course not, because that attire isn't appropriate for that situation.

[Edited on 30-11-2004 by Authorised]


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## Scot (Nov 29, 2004)

> Last night, I wore a sweater and jeans to church.



That's pretty much me. I have ragged looking jeans and nice black jeans that I wear to church. I never wear a t-shirt to church. Usually a nice pair of black jeans and sweater or button down shirt. Nothing fancy but different from my everyday clothing.

As for the women, I think they should all dress like the Amish.


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## Craig (Nov 29, 2004)

Aaron,
that's not a bad way to think about dressing for church. I understand.

However, many wear suits everyday to work...it's really no different than any other day of the week when some wear suits Sunday for worship. I could explain my logic and I'm sure you'd agree with me, too. I wear a suit each day to work, I don't want to even think about work when in church, and a suit would distract me. So often we bring up "well, we dress up for weddings, we dress up for important people we may have dinner with" and the reason we do these things isn't purely out of reverence...we want to be noticed. We don't want to be the only ones looking shabby at a wedding...also, that's a great time to pick up Christian ladies! These occasions may call for formal dress as these are part of the very "ceremony" of these situations...with worship, the central parts of worship relate to Word and Sacrament: anything that distracts from these ought to be avoided. If we focus too much on our appearance wouldn't we be like Martha, concerning herself merely with outward acts of worship when we ought to be more like Mary (John 12)? I'm not saying we dress down purposefully as this is the exact same extreme of _always trying to distinguish oneself by dressing up_: one has exchanged the "piety" of formal dress for the "pious" appearance of trying to look disheveled an "Oh I'm so holy I don't have time to tie my shoes and chose sandals instead"...and I think most of us can picture these people who spend hours trying to look like "they just don't care".

I guess I'm just saying, simple guidlines are the best: don't distract others with your dress...and don't distract yourself with your dress!


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## tcalbrecht (Nov 29, 2004)

I'm a biker. I hang out with bikers.


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## Craig (Nov 29, 2004)

Actually, I think I've seen some men wearing leather vests like that in churches...they're usually located downtown, and are liberal


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## Presbyrino (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> Actually, I think I've seen some men wearing leather vests like that in churches...they're usually located downtown, and are liberal





Yeah, and they like to sing songs like:
Macho Man
YMCA
Anything by Bette Midler &/or Barbara Streisand


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## Craig (Nov 29, 2004)

You read my mind Steve...you read my mind!


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## pastorway (Nov 29, 2004)

It's all about heart attitude. 

We meet in a rented space and have no control over the thermostat. That means it can get really warm in the summer and really cold in the winter. 

As for our dress code - we tell people to dress _comfortably_ for church.

Phillip

[Edited on 11-30-04 by pastorway]


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## jfschultz (Nov 29, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by jfschultz_
> ...



What one wears is a matter that they decided so to some extent is a reflection of the inward heart. Though just because one dresses nicely does not mean that their heart is right. But if one shows respect by dressing nicely for an "earthly king" (whether of royalty or of elected position) then turns around and doesn't care how they dress for God is saying He is due less respect than a man.

Isn't dressing down for church something that has become common as our view of God has declined?


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## Craig (Nov 29, 2004)

> Isn't dressing down for church something that has become common as our view of God has declined?


Yes...and NO.

The best dressed people can be found at the liberal churches. 

Again: The issue is NOT how dapper we look; as I believe we don't dress up primarily to show respect for anyone: it is either to be noticed, or to blend in with the surrounding ceremonies...the central part of the worship of God is not how you or I dress (though we can take away from worship if we decide to dress in distracting clothing): The ministry of Word and Sacrament are central.

I may love my wife a lot...in fact, I do...she really, really loves it when I wear cologne...whenever we go out, I try to wear it: shall I wear that cologne as a fragrant offering to God on Sunday? Honestly, that sounds ridiculous...why? That's not what worship is about. 

[Edited on 30-11-2004 by Craig]


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 29, 2004)

When I was in my 20's I use to go to a Reformed Presbyterian Church that was steeped in Bill Gothard. So I use to wear my bib- cover-alls since everyone else was wearing suits and ties. I felt sorry if any people were visiting and saw all those stuffy whitie tighties staring at them because they were wearing golf shirts or even worse....T-shirts. Kick the loose women out if they violate a strong repromand Adam!!!!!



Randy


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 30, 2004)

We're missing the point. As I said, if one has the means to 'keep' themselves, at the level God has allowed, they should. Please ask yourself: If you were invited to a formal event at the white house, how would you dress? Not in jeans and a t-shirt, I promise you. 



> Isn't dressing down for church something that has become common as our view of God has declined?



My opinion, This is true. 

Much borders upon our culture; I agree. Here in Florida we are 'casual'. Bahama shorts and pullover is the norm. In Great Britain, it is much different. However, we should with vigor, dress ourselves for when we meet the king. It shows one's heart, preparing! None of us, on our first date with our wives would have went un-kept. How much more when we meet with the groom!



[Edited on 11-30-2004 by Scott Bushey]


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## BobVigneault (Nov 30, 2004)

My peave is with the people that dress down in order to make a point that God accepts us as we are. Please, let's have only sermon per service.


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## govols (Nov 30, 2004)

*What irks me*

What gets my goat are all the stupid fathers, some just may be ignorant, that allow their daughters to wear tight fitting tops and skirts, well let's just say that I wash my car with more material than that which covers them.

What are they thinking? Who has their daughter's hearts?


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## wsw201 (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> We're missing the point. As I said, if one has the means to 'keep' themselves, at the level God has allowed, they should. Please ask yourself: If you were invited to a formal event at the white house, how would you dress? Not in jeans and a t-shirt, I promise you.
> 
> 
> ...



This is very true Scott. I find the idea that someone who would not wear jeans to a formal meeting or State dinner at the White House with the President would wear jeans and a "nice" t-shirt to come before the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. In worship we are ushered into the very throne room of God. Do we show proper reverence and awe before the most Holy God when we show up in less than our best? This idea that what we wear to church doesn't matter because it may or may not reflect our "heart" is a load of garbage!!! When I see those who have been called out of sin and darkness and into the Kingdom of Christ, called to be saints, respond to the high privilege of worship wearing jeans and a polo shirt, all it says is "I don't want to wear a suit and tie because its uncomfortable for MEEEE !" I wonder how uncomfortable Christ was up on the cross?


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## BobVigneault (Nov 30, 2004)

My dear friend was reading this thread and emailed me to share an anecdote regarding a recent church visit.

I was invited to preach at a Baptist church in the area. I invited my friends, Gerry and Deb. It is their practice to dress comfortably for worship, crispily ironed shirts and clean, fresh blue jeans. It was a country church with a very humble budget.

One of the deacons met my friends not long after they came in the door and explained to them that the church offers a food pantry if ever they find themselves coming up short during the month.

My friends asked me if there was something about them that said, "We need help?" We had a good laugh.

I guess that just reinforces the fact that how we dress sends messages beyond our intent or control.


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## sastark (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by jfschultz_
> But if one shows respect by dressing nicely for an "earthly king" (whether of royalty or of elected position) then turns around and doesn't care how they dress for God is saying He is due less respect than a man.


 
I 100% disagree. And here's why: Earthly kings expect and require OUTWARD respect. If I were to meet the President of the Untied States, of course I would run down to Macy's and buy a suit (since I don't own one now). Our Heavenly Father, however, requires INWARD respect. Does this translate into outward forms? Yes! Which is why I said we should dress *modestly*. And that's where I stop, becuase that's where Scripture stops. What indication do we have that Paul had a "Sunday-go-to-meeting" Robe? I can find no evidence in Scripture of this.

[Edited on 30-11-2004 by sastark]

[Edited on 30-11-2004 by sastark]


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## govols (Nov 30, 2004)

I usually wear slacks with a polo type shirt. When I help with communion or lead scripture reading / corporate prayer then I will wear a suit and tie.

We have Sunday night service every other Sunday and I wear nice looking jeans and a polo type shirt.


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## sastark (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by wsw201_
> When I see those who have been called out of sin and darkness and into the Kingdom of Christ, called to be saints, respond to the high privilege of worship wearing jeans and a polo shirt, all it says is "I don't want to wear a suit and tie because its uncomfortable for MEEEE !" I wonder how uncomfortable Christ was up on the cross?



Wayne, you've said a lot of things in the past on this board that I have whole-heartedly agreed with, but I must disagree with you here, brother. 

If someone shows up to your church in jeans and a t-shirt, your first reaction is "How selfish and inappropriate of him!" ?? Really? Do you really, honestly believe you are a better Christian because you put on a tie that morning? Or that your worship is more acceptable to God because you're wearing a suit? Do you really think God looks, even for a second, on the outward man and not on the inward heart?

Please take this post in a tone of love and respect, but I really am surprised at what you wrote.


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## cupotea (Nov 30, 2004)

The rule of thumb I follow is, that God gave us the very best that He had, should we not honor Him by giving Him of our very best as well. 

It is true that God looks on the heart, but the condition of our hearts is reflected in our walk, before man and God. Afterall, who are we trying to please, God? or ourselves with what is convenient and comfortable? Is He number one in our life, or is it us? If He is, then we should give Him our very best, that includes how we dress before Him in worship.


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## tcalbrecht (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by CajunBibleBeliever_
> The rule of thumb I follow is, that God gave us the very best that He had, should we not honor Him by giving Him of our very best as well.
> 
> It is true that God looks on the heart, but the condition of our hearts is reflected in our walk, before man and God. *Afterall, who are we trying to please, God? or ourselves with what is convenient and comfortable? * Is He number one in our life, or is it us? If He is, then we should give Him our very best, that includes how we dress before Him in worship.



Oops. Better get rid of those padded pews and sound systems. Wouldn't want to be too convenient and comfortable.


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by wsw201_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> ...



Sastark,
Please read over what Wayne has implied. His premise is that people choose to present themselves in suits to Earthly men and yet to the Sovereign One, jeans and a t-shirt will do? Why is that? It is our view of God.


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## Batman (Nov 30, 2004)

Adam...the girl in question, with the short skirt, should be confronted by some of the older women in the congregation...I wouldn't touch that one with a ten foot pole. 

As for dress code...my buddy Tdowns007 aka TDrevolver and I do a theatical performance every Sunday during the summer for the kids' Sunday School. We play a couple of goof ball characters (Diamondback Danny and Too Pumped Trev) who get schooled every week by our well grounded Sunday School teacher. We wear shorts and surf-type shirts throughout summer and usually attend service after our performance wearing the same gear. I agree with most of the posts up to this point that God is absolutely concerned with the state of our hearts rather than the state of our outer wear. But...if in your heart you desire to dress up a little, I say go for it.

I know this quote doesn't directly fit the topic, but I once heard one of my favorite pastors say, "In regards to worship, God does not listen with a microphone, but with a stethoscope."


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## crhoades (Nov 30, 2004)

Dress is adiaphora (as long as it is not immodest). The arguments posted here for wearing the best are arguments from the lesser to the greater. If W. then G. 

Where does this reasoning stop? That is why people appeal to the RPW. Why not appeal to that now? Does scripture anywhere explicitly stipulate or forbid what we wear? Who is to say that one piece of cotton sewed one way is better or worse than another? By what standard? Oh yeah, man's.

To continue to argue from the lesser to the greater...

Would we serve cheap box wine to the President? Shouldn't the wine used in the Lord's Supper be the best possible wine? (assuming that one's church uses actual wine).

Crackers...come now. Shouldn't we have a chef preparing the bread?

I would also probably get a fresh haircut for the President (can't go all shaggy looking...) Should I get one before every Sunday to look great?

Cologne...I should smell my best too huh? Better polish my shoes as well. 

I also wouldn't see the Pres with my car being dirty inside and out. Better start washing it every Saturday.

Probably will need to keep my fingernails cut and clean as well as pop in a breath mint before I enter the sanctuary.

Everyone should definitely take singing lessons too. I'm probably tone deaf and should do what I can to improve the joyful squawks to the Lord that I make.

While we're on the outward appearance before God and man, obesity is bad. I should seek to exercise and regulate my diet until I look like Ah-nold. I shouldn't stop with just being trim...I should look like the best.

Who gets to define best?

What if your definition of best is better than mine? Is it binding? If someone's definition is a suit and I don't own one, am I obligated to go out and buy one? Should it be navy or black? 2 button, 3 button? If I can't afford one, should I pawn some stuff so I can get one? After all worship is the most important thing we do and it would trump other things. And dress is awfully important for church.

Are we willing to define not dressing to the 9's sin for a worship service? Should the elders take a clothing inventory at every parishoner's house to determine what their best is? That way if a person doesn't dress his best every week or even goes a few weeks in a row they can confront the sin with loving church discipline.

In fact, there can only be "1" best. Even if I have 3 suits are they all the same or is one better? Would this not relegate everyone dressing in the same outfit every Sunday? That is unless we purchase 7 different sets of the same clothes to be rotated. 

And on a lighter note:
I wonder if Laura Bush always has to dress up in front of the President or if she would be able to come to the church service in a jogging suit since she wear's that in front of him...


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## cupotea (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> To continue to argue from the lesser to the greater...
> 
> Would we serve cheap box wine to the President? Shouldn't the wine used in the Lord's Supper be the best possible wine? (assuming that one's church uses actual wine).
> ...


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## Me Died Blue (Nov 30, 2004)




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## crhoades (Nov 30, 2004)

(This one is stretching it a bit due to my lack of constitutional knowledge but work with me...)

And aren't "We the People" technically sovereign? I mean aren't the powers in the people and the President only an elected representative? Isn't he a servant of the people?

If this is the case then if we ever have a PB conference I would expect everyone to dress up in a suit when you meet me because I voted. :bigsmile:

In fact if that's the case, then we should wear suits all of the time. Too the grocery, to the gas station, mowing our yard, etc. because we might meet a citizen of the U.S.

<historical side note>
It's funny that when we founded this country we were going against having a "king". Washington was very concerned on what he wore and what he was called because we were trying to be different. Somehow, over time, we have now turned the office into the throne room again. Something tells me that W. wouldn't mind it if someone approached him in jeans. (not that it matters either way.)


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Nov 30, 2004)

I think this part of the Confession may be relevant: "...and that there are some circumstances concerning the worship of God, and government of the Church, common to human actions and societies, which are to be ordered by the light of nature, and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, which are always to be observed. (Chap. I.IV). 

The light of nature and Christian prudence, according to the general rules of the Word, are the standard for such things as are circumstantial to public worship. In other words, relating this to one's attire in worship, use good judgment informed by God's Word (ie., avoid immodest apparel, dress appropriately for the occasion and the circumstance). 

When one tries to define proper attire more than that, it's like opening Pandora's Box (Greek mythical allusion).


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 30, 2004)




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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 30, 2004)

If I remember correctly it is a robe of White that I will be wearing when I see my King. Cleansed by the blood of the Lamb. A robe he will give me. Not one I have paid for myself. I think we should be careful to notice the culture we are in when we are worshipping with a body of believers so that attention isn't drawn away from the eternal Glory. I'm actually a poor man. I do own a suit. I'm not going to see the President. I'm going to see the King of kings though. I don't want to be a white washed tomb. I don't want to be a dead thing either. I'm not speaking of balance. I am pleading for realilty. Hopefully I can come to church with a contrite heart. That is hard enough. My heart is so deceitful and prideful that it takes all my energy just to prepare it and dress it up for seeing the King. That is why I am not concerned with wearing a tie. God isn't concerned with us wearing a tie. He isn't worried about us wearing our finery. He is worried about us wearing a truly righteous, humble, attitude. If that means wearing a suit for some. So be it. It isn't for me. 
Matthew 6:33
In Christ's Love.

For Christ's Crown and Covenant, R. Martin Snyder
 I agree!

[Edited on 11-30-2004 by puritancovenanter]


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## cupotea (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> It's funny that when we founded this country we were going against having a "king". Washington was very concerned on what he wore and what he was called because we were trying to be different. Somehow, over time, we have now turned the office into the throne room again. Something tells me that W. wouldn't mind it if someone approached him in jeans. (not that it matters either way.)



I once read that a British ambassador came to visit Jefferson in his office and was horrified to find him undressed for the meeting (that is, in his underwear). Jefferson didn't see what the big deal was.


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## alwaysreforming (Nov 30, 2004)

The jury is still out on this one for me. I agree with the posts that imply that how we dress reflects what we expect when we come to a worship service. Do we expect to be preached to by a man only, or do we REALLY come expecting to be in the presence of a Holy God?

I HATE to dress up, and rarely do it, even at church. If I'm not wearing jeans and sneakers then I feel very uncomfortable. (I get hot and sweaty very easily) However, I try to wear a nice shirt and clean sneaks or even black or brown shoes to "step it up a notch." But I've got to tell you, the only reason why I don't really dress up for church is simply because I hate it so much! I would love to justify it by saying that God only looks at the heart (and I'm not implying that those who use that argument are simply justifying it. I think they're fully convinced in their own minds and therefore, not sinning.)

But if I have to perform a role, such as teaching or communion, then I dress much nicer.

As for the young ladies immodestly dressed, I think its for the women to correct them. And if the women are not correcting them, then we should go up to those women and say, "Hey, see so and so? It would be great if you could encourage her to dress modestly for the worship service for these reasons..."

I'm at the point now where I'm very tempted to go up to these females and say something to them myself! Seriously. The job is just not getting done and I'm tired of them flaunting their tight buttocks all over the sanctuary like they're there to pick up guys, or at least cause them to drool.  (But I'll say it in a very tactful and winsome manner)


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 30, 2004)

Scott, 

*That Picture is gross!*


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## Scott Bushey (Nov 30, 2004)

yuk yuk yuk


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## Authorised (Nov 30, 2004)

> _Originally posted by puritancovenanter_
> Scott,
> 
> *That Picture is gross!*


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## govols (Nov 30, 2004)

That's not gross, he's just tenderizing the meat. You can make some good chili out of that. Plus, the flies are small, they don't eat much.


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## pastorway (Nov 30, 2004)

are we done yet.....


yuck indeed......


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## wsw201 (Dec 1, 2004)

> _Originally posted by sastark_
> 
> Wayne, you've said a lot of things in the past on this board that I have whole-heartedly agreed with, but I must disagree with you here, brother.
> 
> ...



Seth,

That's okay we don't have to agree on everything. But how anyone presents themselves says something about them and what they think of the occasion. Dressing appropriately for a certain occasion is only expected. Would you look down on someone who came to a worship service wearing a speedo? or a woman wearing a string bikini? What if they showed up at your house for a dinner party like that. I know this is a bit of a far out example but if we are going to take the position that what you wear to come before the throne of God does not matter, where do we draw the line? (Hopefully we can agree on no speedo's). How about cut offs and a tank top? How the Bride of Christ, the Church, presents itself to her Bridegroom says a lot about what we think of God and what He has done for us. I do think that God does care how you present yourself when you come to worship Him since it reflects the level of love and respect you have for Him.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 1, 2004)

Adam and Eve were naked and they were not ashamed. And Our majestic God was just fine with that when they met together. When they were ashamed they started to cover themselves. I believe they might have also changed in appearance somehow. You know that lustre of glory just didn't shine like it did after they fell. WE DO NEED OUR COVERINGS. Espeicially me.


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## cupotea (Dec 1, 2004)




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## Scott Bushey (Dec 1, 2004)

Okay banana-boy.  This one's cooked!

 bye Bye


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