# Any News on the OPC Psalter-Hymnal?



## Theoretical (Apr 1, 2009)

Awhile back, I'd heard of an OPC Psalter-Hymnal in development. Any news on that front?


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## yeutter (Apr 1, 2009)

The United Reformed and the Canadian Reformed Churches are in talks about a new Psalter/Hymnal. The OPC is looking into a new Psalter Hymnal. Why do the *Book of Praise; Anglo-Genevan Psalter*, and the *Trinity Hymnal *need to be replaced? If a new worship book is needed do why can't their be just one rather then several new Psalters produced?


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## Josiah (Apr 1, 2009)

Found this quote:



> The Rev. Alan Strange spoke about the Psalter-hymnal project. It is hoped that this resource for the church will be ready by 2011.



Here

I know that the CCE is working on the psalter-hymnal with men from other NAPARC churches (PCA, ARP, URC, RPCNA etc) to accomplish this and that they have about $200,000 budget for that project.


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## DonP (Apr 1, 2009)

Why don't they just use the RPCNAs? Is it bad or defective? 

I thought there was already a Trinity psalter, a subset of the psalms only taken out of the hymnal, a little paperback. Am I having a premature senior moment? I have been out of the OPC a while and our congregation didn't use it


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## Josiah (Apr 1, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Why don't they just use the RPCNAs? Is it bad or defective?
> 
> I thought there was already a Trinity psalter, a subset of the psalms only taken out of the hymnal, a little paperback. Am I having a premature senior moment? I have been out of the OPC a while and our congregation didn't use it



I dont have the minuets of the 08 GA in front of me (I will get the minuets and post what I find in them in this thread next time), but I know the reasoning behind the Psalter-Hymnal was discussed at GA. I guess it would make sense to have one book instead of two to have to pick up during public worship. I enjoy the RPCNA's Book of Psalms for Singing though and am glad we are working with them and others in making of the psalter-hymnal. May the Lord bless the fruits of these labors.


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## DonP (Apr 1, 2009)

Josiah said:


> I dont have the minuets of the 08 GA in front of me (I will get the minuets and post what I find in them in this thread next time), but I know the reasoning behind the Psalter-Hymnal was discussed at GA.* I guess it would make sense to have one book instead of two to have to pick up during public worship.* I enjoy the RPCNA's Book of Psalms for Singing though and am glad we are working with them and others in making of the psalter-hymnal. May the Lord bless the fruits of these labors.



They already have ONE , it has psalms and hymns in it. 

The only reason for a psalter is if you don't want the hymns. 

And of course the Trinity Hymnal does not have the hymns by number in order or even by chapter verse as a title so it is harder to use, but you can look them up in the back by references


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## Dearly Bought (Apr 1, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> They already have ONE , it has psalms and hymns in it.
> 
> The only reason for a psalter is if you don't want the hymns.



If you're speaking of the Trinity Hymnal, it is definitely _not_ a psalter-hymnal. I'm pretty sure something has to at least have a snippet of every psalm to merit such a title.

Of course, I personally don't see the need for the hymnal part at all...


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## Josiah (Apr 1, 2009)

> They already have ONE , it has psalms and hymns in it.



The Trinity Hymnal does contain some, but not all 150 psalms in their entirety which was one of the reasons why a Psalter-Hymnal was desired. 



> The only reason for a psalter is if you don't want the hymns.



I dont think this is true, considering that EP is not the historic position of OPC on this matter and has been considerd in the past at the 13 GA minority report.


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## DonP (Apr 1, 2009)

Josiah said:


> > The only reason for a psalter is if you don't want the hymns.
> 
> 
> 
> I dont think this is true, considering that EP is not the historic position of OPC on this matter and has been considerd in the past at the 13 GA minority report.



Then as you say, if they just want to have access to all 150 why not add them into the hymnall so its one book? 
The only reason to have a psalter is for those who don't want the hymns in it. Like Dearly Bought that posted above. 

You don't have a problem with a psalter being a separate book right? 

Now I think having a hymnal is fine. 
I think they should just have a big gold letter warning on them:

For Use in Private Gathering Worship Only - Not to Be Used in the Church Public Worship
Do not even take this into the chapel please.


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## Josiah (Apr 1, 2009)

> Then as you say, if they just want to have access to all 150 why not add them into the hymnall so its one book?



Perhaps Im not understanding your concern about the formation of the psalter-hymnal. If that is the case, I apologize for my lack of perception. to answer your question: they *are* adding them together in one book, a psalter and a hymnal together. I dont see why this is unhelpful or un-beneficial. 



> The only reason to have a psalter is for those who don't want the hymns in it. Like Dearly Bought that posted above.



I suppose I dont see singing psalms and hymns as being mutually exlcusive. What about those of us who sing the hymns but also want access to singing all the 150 psalms in one book? 




> You don't have a problem with a psalter being a separate book right?



Problem? No. I do believe though that the CCE has set a good course for OPC in producing a psalter-hymnal. I dont think the two must be mutually exclusive. Why shouldnt a non EP church like the OPC not sing the Psalms from a combined psalter-hymnal? Wouldnt you agree that this direction is better than singing the hymns only?


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## DonP (Apr 1, 2009)

I don't have a concern at all. 

My thought was I agreed with you, why not have them all in one book. Why have a hymnal and a psalter in two books. 

The only reason not to would be if you were an exclusive psalmist who would not want a psalter hymnal, but only a psalter 

Then I was saying to Dearly Bought, who posted above us, "that we should only have a psalter", that they would not have problem with a separate psalter. They are Exclusive Psalmists.

I guess my attempts at dry subtle humor is too subtle and not funny. I should quit attempting


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## Josiah (Apr 1, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> I don't have a concern at all.
> 
> I was saying to Dearly Bought who posted above us that we should only have a psalter, that they would not have problem with a separate psalter. They are Exclusive Psalmists.
> 
> ...



 Im afraid I misunderstood you, please forgive me. I am a little slow at picking up on subtle humor. I am more of slapstick kind of guy


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## DonP (Apr 1, 2009)

Josiah said:


> I am a little slow at picking up on subtle humor. I am more of slapstick kind of guy





Well them maybe I should just slap ya with a stick!


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## Josiah (Apr 1, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Josiah said:
> 
> 
> > I am a little slow at picking up on subtle humor. I am more of slapstick kind of guy
> ...



apperently the smell of stale, burnt coffee in the office is causing my brain to malfunction


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## Glenn Ferrell (Apr 4, 2009)

It is a good thing to provide all 150 Psalms to OP congregations. I understand the intention of a prior OP GA was to include a complete Psalter in the latest Trinity Hymnal. For some reason it didn’t happen. So, the 2006 GA committed funds to producing one, regardless of whether Great Commissions Publications or the PCA wants to be part of this. There were guidelines adopted by the 2006 GA for this Psalter-Hymnal. A large part of the work is getting permission to use copyrighted word and music.

I appreciate the OPC making available both majority (pro-hymnody) and minority (pro-psalmody) reports. Remember, neither was adopted; both were received. Technically, this matter is still under study in the OPC, happily with a growing use of Psalms in public worship. 

I encourage people to read both reports. The minority report is good, effectively making the usual arguments for exclusive use of canonical content in sung praise. However, the majority report is even more interesting. As the burden of proof belongs to the pro non-canonical hymnody side, it is interesting to find the good efforts of the majority of the committee did not prove their case. 

I’ve considered this matter since 1990. In 2003-2004, I spent more than a year reading extensively on this subject. The majority report, more than anything else, tipped me toward pro Exclusive Psalmody position by their failure to make their case.


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## OPC'n (Apr 4, 2009)

Last thing I heard was they had to halt this project for the time being due to the economical situation.


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## Beth Ellen Nagle (Apr 4, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> It is a good thing to provide all 150 Psalms to OP congregations. I understand the intention of a prior OP GA was to include a complete Psalter in the latest Trinity Hymnal. For some reason it didn’t happen. So, the 2006 GA committed funds to producing one, regardless of whether Great Commissions Publications or the PCA wants to be part of this. There were guidelines adopted by the 2006 GA for this Psalter-Hymnal. A large part of the work is getting permission to use copyrighted word and music.
> 
> I appreciate the OPC making available both majority (pro-hymnody) and minority (pro-psalmody) reports. Remember, neither was adopted; both were received. Technically, this matter is still under study in the OPC, happily with a growing use of Psalms in public worship.
> 
> ...



It's good to see this being discussed. I attend a PCA church that has made strides over the years to sing the Psalms. Often a service ends up being all Psalms. It varies. They use the Trinity Hymnal too.


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## Casey (Apr 4, 2009)

I'll probably be stepping on some toes with this one, but figured I'd throw in my 

The OPC is by and large not exclusive psalmody, so having a psalter alone is not an option. The Trinity Psalter is problematic because it doesn't include the music. Having a Psalter Hymnal is the goal. Sure, I like the Book of Psalms for Singing -- I enjoy it, but many of the selections are musically difficult and the lyrics are choppy. That's my musical opinion, again, I don't intend to offend.

When the revised Trinity Hymnal was made, I think it was supposed to have more Psalms than the original Trinity Hymnal (that's what I heard). But it was a PCA-OPC combined effort. My understanding is that PCA congregations (particularly in the south) have a different taste in hymns. A lot of those kind of hymns made it in. There ended up being LESS psalter selections in the revised Trinity Hymnal than there were in the original, even though there were 12 more selections.

It was an ecumenical effort that tried to accommodate both denominations. Seems to me the OPC uses the Trinity Hymnal a lot more than the PCA does (I've heard that in the south few PCA's use it, though every PCA I've been to in the north uses it). OPC congregations I'm familiar with want more Psalms and better hymns.

The goal for the new OPC Psalter Hymnal is (1) to include the entire psalter, (2) to include a wider variety of ancient hymns, and (3) to be shorter. This is my recollection of what I've heard about it. I hope it will include the entire Larger Catechism. I hope it will include a vastly smaller selection of hymns, and a _better_ selection (get rid of things like "Wonderful Grace of Jesus"). If it's going to have responsive readings, I hope it includes the entire psalter. I hope it includes other ecumenical creeds to make it more liturgically friendly. I hope it is arranged like the Book of Psalms for Singing in the front half, and have the first hymn begin at #151 (or start at a new count).

The Trinity Hymnal, in my view, is unwieldy. It's huge. There are too many hymns that are inappropriate for public worship due to music and lyrics, and because they are too specialized (like some hymns that fit perfect with a specific Scripture text but would probably never be sung otherwise). They should be chopped out. My personal view is that it's better to KNOW a fewer number of hymns and know them well than having gobs of hymns no one ever sings.

I can't wait for the new one to be finished -- I'm looking forward to it!!


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## Casey (Apr 4, 2009)

p.s., I forgot -- I hope it includes the Ten Commandments as the original did for regular liturgical use (I think the revised Trinity was _supposed_ to have this too, but it got chopped, a big blunder In my humble opinion)


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## Scottish Lass (Apr 4, 2009)

Anecdotally, every PCA church I've been to in the South uses the Trinity...


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