# Confession of Faith in Worship



## JoelYrick (May 23, 2008)

Could someone post a defense of the use of a confession of faith in worship? I've seen in the liturgies of different reformed churches the use of the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed, the WSC, and the WCF to corporately confess the faith. I'm not sure how this would square with the regulative principle.

I have used the Apostle's Creed, the Nicene Creed, and Chalcedon in family worship. Currently, I'm leaning against this practice.

Thanks in advance!


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## Contra_Mundum (May 23, 2008)

I'd say this is sufficient, from a RPW stance (although there are more than a couple guys on this board who would differ):

WCF 21:5 "...are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God (Mat_28:19; Act_2:42; 1Co_11:23-29): besides *religious oaths* (Deu_6:13 with Neh_10:29), *vows* Isa_19:21 with Eccl 5;4, 5),..."

WCF 22:1 A lawful oath is part of religious worship (Deu_10:20), wherein, upon just occasion, the person swearing solemnly calleth God to witness what he asserteth, or promiseth; and to judge him according to the truth or falsehood of what he sweareth (Exo_20:7; Lev_19:12; 2Ch_6:22, 2Ch_6:23; 2Co_1:23).

As far as I'm concerned, this is sufficient biblical and confessional justification. The confession of one's faith is a public attestation to truth, which one says in God's presence.

Furthermore, Paul's multiple explicit references to "faithful sayings" and other allusions to faith-summary statements in the epistles (such as 1 Jn 2:12-14) which are certainly catechetical in nature if not liturgical, indicate to me that such commonplaces were found very early on in the church. The Apostle's Creed was the development of an early baptismal formula or confessional statement by a catechumen.


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## Kevin (May 23, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> I'd say this is sufficient, from a RPW stance (although there are more than a couple guys on this board who would differ):
> 
> WCF 21:5 "...are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God (Mat_28:19; Act_2:42; 1Co_11:23-29): besides *religious oaths* (Deu_6:13 with Neh_10:29), *vows* Isa_19:21 with Eccl 5;4, 5),..."
> 
> ...



What he said.


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## dannyhyde (May 24, 2008)

Historically speaking, the Reformed churches on the Continent included recitation or singing of the Creed in holy worship, especially in connection with the celebration of the holy Supper (E.g., Zurich, Strassburg, Geneva, and Heidelberg, Netherlands). You can read the liturgies of the first three in that list in Thompson's, _Liturgies of the Western Church_. The Form for Holy Communion that was used in Strassburg/Geneva made its way into Heidelberg and then the Dutch Reformed churches through the work of Petrus Dathenus, and can be read in any version of the _Psalter Hymnal_ that Dutch Reformed churches, such as the URCNA, use.

As far as the Confessions go, Bruce has pointed out the relevant portions of the Westminster Confession. In the Belgic Confession, article 35, on the Lord's Supper, we read:
Lastly, we receive this holy Sacrament in the assembly of the people of God, with humility and reverence, keeping up among us a holy remembrance of the death of Christ our Saviour, with thanksgiving, making there confession of our faith and of the Christian religion.​
As I mentioned above, this is confirmed by our practice of reciting the Creed in our liturgy for Holy Communion.

I'll leave the biblical side of things to better lights.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (May 24, 2008)

There is no Biblical warrant to recite creeds in public worship as a congregation. Responsive reading is simply not commanded and, therefore, a violation of the regulative principle of worship. This has been debated before, but I side with the Westminster approach to worship which excludes all but the elements of worship identified in its own confession (having considered the Apostles Creed in worship and rejected it). William Gouge says that uttering "amen" after the blessing is the "only warrantable means for people to utter their mind in a congregation" (_The Sabbath's Sanctification_, p. 4). This is the only Biblical reason for people to speak in worship, except for vows and oaths, which are not the same as reading extra-Biblical creeds in worship responsively, a tradition without Biblical warrant. 

http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/rpw-reading-confessions-creeds-8358/


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## jwithnell (May 24, 2008)

Over and over in the OT, you see "remember," or a tie-in with an earlier event: "I am the Lord your God who brought you out of Egypt." You also have Christ's admonition to profess him before man. Both of these seem like a basis for the use of creeds. With so much happening in this world from an anti-Christian perspective, I love joining my voice with other believers to state firmly what we believe.


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## JoelYrick (May 24, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies, I'm slowly considering them. I hadn't considered the question of vows and oaths in worship as possibly being corporate creedal confessions. 

I'm curious as to whether those of you who are in favor of the use of creeds EPers or not.

VirginiaHuguenot, are you saying that the Westminster divines considered the question of use of the Creed in worship and rejected it, or that you personally did? Also, it seems that you think that vows and oaths are be elemental in worship (because they are allowed)? Could you give some examples of what would be vows or oaths that ought to be taken during worship?

I'll go back and read that discussion now. Hopefully, I'm not asking you to repeat much.

dannyhyde, your church was one of those that I was thinking about when I asked this question. I had an enjoyable visit a couple years ago when I visited WSC.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (May 26, 2008)

JoelYrick said:


> VirginiaHuguenot, are you saying that the Westminster divines considered the question of use of the Creed in worship and rejected it, or that you personally did? Also, it seems that you think that vows and oaths are be elemental in worship (because they are allowed)? Could you give some examples of what would be vows or oaths that ought to be taken during worship?



The Westminster Assembly considered the usage of the Creed in worship, specifically the Scottish/Continental practice of a parent or god-parent reciting the Apostles Creed at baptism, and rejected it. Following the exclusion of the Creed in worship by the church order of Thomas Cartwright, the objections to its recitation in worship by William Perkins who described it as vain "babbling" and "will worship", and the objections to its usage in worship by the English Puritans (Horton Davies, _The Worship of the English Puritans_, p. 135), notably the Independents, the Westminster Directory of Public Worship omits it altogether, notwithstanding that the Assembly agreed to append it to the publication of its Catechisms, which shows that they viewed it as very worthwhile in its proper place (outside of worship). G.W. Sprott says (_The Worship of the Church of Scotland During the Covenanting Period 1638-1661_, p. 22) that the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, in its act approving the Directory of Public Worship dated February 3, 1645, used language that would allow for the continued usage of such Scottish practices as the recitation of the Creed at baptism and the role of 'god-parents.' And the bishops at the Restoration in 1662 went out of their way to reinstitute the recitation of the Creed in worship. However, Thomas Leishman notes that the use of the Creed in Scottish worship "disappeared for centuries both from the Lord's Day Service and the Baptismal Office for Scotland" (_The Westminster Directory_, p. 112). The Assembly made every effort to provide for only practices in worship that had Biblical justification, rather than the support of tradition, no matter how noble. On this basis, the office of reader and the role of god-parents, which had Scottish precedent, was excluded, from the Westminster Standards. Likewise, the custom of reciting the creed in worship, though it had precedent, was excluded from the Westminster Standards, though clearly the Assembly thought well enough of the creed to append it to its Catechisms, for that was the proper place for it, rather than in worship. 

Oaths and vows are identified as lawful, though occasional, elements of worship by the Westminster Confession of Faith. Some examples that I can think of that are appropriate for worship, though occasional, are church membership, baptismal and ordination vows. There are oaths and vows that are religious in nature, which may take place outside of stated worship, such as marriage vows and personal or corporate covenants, or an oath to tell the truth in a judicial proceeding. These are also religious acts of worship, which may or may not be part of stated worship, but are governed by the third commandment, as well as the second.


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## MW (May 26, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> WCF 21:5 "...are all parts of the ordinary religious worship of God (Mat_28:19; Act_2:42; 1Co_11:23-29): besides *religious oaths* (Deu_6:13 with Neh_10:29), *vows* Isa_19:21 with Eccl 5;4, 5),..."
> 
> WCF 22:1 A lawful oath is part of religious worship (Deu_10:20), wherein, upon just occasion, the person swearing solemnly calleth God to witness what he asserteth, or promiseth; and to judge him according to the truth or falsehood of what he sweareth (Exo_20:7; Lev_19:12; 2Ch_6:22, 2Ch_6:23; 2Co_1:23).
> 
> As far as I'm concerned, this is sufficient biblical and confessional justification. The confession of one's faith is a public attestation to truth, which one says in God's presence.



And yet the divines never thought to include "confession of faith" in the Directory for Public Worship. This would indicate that they did not consider their statements concerning lawful oaths and vows as providing sufficient biblical and confession justification for the practice.


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## JohnOwen007 (May 26, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> There is no Biblical warrant to recite creeds in public worship as a congregation.



Dear Andrew, I appreciate from where you're coming and have great respect for your position. I believe we must do in church as the Scriptures tell us. I'm still struggling to see where the NT tells us there are strictly a _set _number of elements for the gathering either by direct command or by good and necessary consequences.

The _principle _I find in the NT for the gathering is *edification * (1 Cor. 14:26) which happens through the word by the Spirit. This then allows for any practice that brings edification. I think it is particularly edifying to say the creeds (Apostles and Nicene not least) in the gathering because they are a great summary of Scripture. Moreover, it's a great way for the family of God learn them off-by-heart.

God bless.


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