# Mega Church Madness



## DeoOpt (Sep 12, 2008)

My wife and I were getting ready for church last Lord's day I noticed the tire on the van was flat, I had to change it out for a spare, we new we did not have time to make it to our service so we visited a mega church near by. The speaker of the church told the congragation that we need to get out there and make God Famous. During his whole speach there was hardly any mention of Jesus or Sin, just a so called feel posative stuff. After the service the speaker (Preacher) walked over to me to shake my hand, I did not extend my hand to him, but in a Loving way I pointed out his err, but at the end of our conversation I told him that if he did mention sin that he would loose most all of his congragation. Im sure my words fell on deaf ears.


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## FrielWatcher (Sep 12, 2008)

Sad to hear. Todd Friel was mentioning this one day on his show - the congregation is getting their reward, their ears are being tickled and hearing the things they want to hear. They want to hear about themselves during church, God will give them up to what they want. 
Well done in exhorting and reproofing.


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## DeoOpt (Sep 12, 2008)

Ya the music was not any better songs that usr the words, (Him) or (you). No mention of who the (Him) our (you) was refuring to. can somewone say Jesus please


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## puritan lad (Sep 12, 2008)

The last megachurch I attended, the sermon consisted of the pastor's weight loss chart for the year and the 12 steps on how he lost the weight.

Of course, step #1 was "Rely on God for help", so I guess that was supposed to make it a sermon.


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## CDM (Sep 12, 2008)

puritan lad said:


> The last megachurch I attended, the sermon consisted of the pastor's weight loss chart for the year and the 12 steps on how he lost the weight.
> 
> Of course, step #1 was "Rely on God for help", so I guess that was supposed to make it a sermon.



Reading things like this gives me the distinct feeling that God is filling up his wrath and fitting this country's people for the pouring out of it.


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## Mushroom (Sep 12, 2008)

Somebody needs to come up with an 'ear tickling' smilie.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Sep 12, 2008)

I am reading through Amos right now for my morning devotions and my heart aches greatly as I read it and things like this.


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## R Harris (Sep 12, 2008)

mangum said:


> Reading things like this gives me the distinct feeling that God is filling up his wrath and fitting this country's people for the pouring out of it.



You are correct, except that the problem is 95% of these people will never recognize it as God's judgment. After all, their god does no such thing; his only attributes are love and mercy. It is sort of like Jeremiah 2 and Jeremiah 44; the people think they are doing no wrong, and when idolatrous things are taken away from them, they get angry and complain.

Since we just completed 9/11 remembrance ceremonies, it still amazes me that few people in Christianity (let alone the secular public, who will discuss no such thing) will regard 9/11 as a judgment. (If it was not a judgment, what was it? A blessing? A true Calvinist should have no problems with what it was.)

When Falwell quickly attibuted the event as a judgment, he was raked over the coals. It is sad how pathetically ignorant so-called Christians are over the very Word of the God that they claim to worship and praise.


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## Josiah (Sep 12, 2008)

DeoOpt said:


> My wife and I were getting ready for church last Lord's day I noticed the tire on the van was flat, I had to change it out for a spare, we new we did not have time to make it to our service so we visited a mega church near by. The speaker of the church told the congragation that we need to get out there and make God Famous. During his whole speach there was hardly any mention of Jesus or Sin, just a so called feel posative stuff. After the service the speaker (Preacher) walked over to me to shake my hand, I did not extend my hand to him, but in a Loving way I pointed out his err, but at the end of our conversation I told him that if he did mention sin that he would loose most all of his congragation. Im sure my words fell on deaf ears.



If I may ask, was this either First EPC (in between Benson and Kent), or was it River of Life Fellowship (also between Benson and Kent)? My wife and I are always amazed about how big their buildings are. River O' Life's building looks like it could be an office building.


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## rescuedbyLove (Sep 12, 2008)

R Harris said:


> it still amazes me that few people in Christianity (let alone the secular public, who will discuss no such thing) will regard 9/11 as a judgment. (If it was not a judgment, what was it? A blessing?



"Well, you know, sometimes God just *lets* things happen....but that doesn't necessarily mean it was His _will_...."



puritan lad said:


> The last megachurch I attended, the sermon consisted of the pastor's weight loss chart for the year and the 12 steps on how he lost the weight.
> 
> Of course, step #1 was "Rely on God for help", so I guess that was supposed to make it a sermon.



Yes, the church I attended right after conversion was just like this every week. Every series was "How to be a better parent", "How to be a better spouse", etc. Essentially "Become a Better YOU!" Hardly any gospel, and if there ever was, it seemed to be only a side note. 

A couple of months ago I was invited (by my grandmother) to go attend a special service at the church (PCUSA) I went to when I was a child. They have a new pastor now, and this was his first Sunday. We wanted to "check out" the kind of preaching they are going to have from now on. Well, the title of his message was "7 Secrets of a Successful Ministry", using the story of Jesus feeding the 5,000. NO gospel.  And the really sad part was that everyone was SO PLEASED with it!


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## puritan lad (Sep 12, 2008)

rescuedbyLove said:


> R Harris said:
> 
> 
> > it still amazes me that few people in Christianity (let alone the secular public, who will discuss no such thing) will regard 9/11 as a judgment. (If it was not a judgment, what was it? A blessing?
> ...



Oh yes. I was the only one of 300 attendees that had any issues with the sermon. I told one of the leaders that I'm very glad that the pastor is healthy and lost weight. However, that is not a sermon. There are doctors, nutritionists, and trainers who are much more qualified for this sort of thing than pastors are. Pastors jobs are much more important.

Thankfully, my church had an evening service so that I could get some real preaching...


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## Davidius (Sep 12, 2008)

It sounds like you are asserting that he is not a Christian by not being willing to even shake his hand. He may not have it together, but not returning a formal greeting and immediately sermonizing someone whom you just met is not the way to help. We just had a thread recently in which people were mentioned who immediately begin shoving their unwanted opinions' down others' throats. If I remember correctly, I thought that it was looked down upon in that thread, but here everyone is piling up praise. What's the deal? 



R Harris said:


> If it was not a judgment, what was it? A blessing? A *true Calvinist* should have no problems with what it was.



That's quite an amazing statement. I don't see how this deduction could possibly be made without assuming that every negative circumstance must be "God's judgment." Is that what you think? Was Job under God's judgment when the foreigners came and stripped his crops?


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## asc (Sep 12, 2008)

Davidius said:


> It sounds like you are asserting that he is not a Christian by not being willing to even shake his hand. He may not have it together, but not returning a formal greeting and immediately sermonizing someone whom you just met is not the way to help. We just had a thread recently in which people were mentioned who immediately begin shoving their unwanted opinions' down others' throats. If I remember correctly, I thought that it was looked down upon in that thread, but here everyone is piling up praise. What's the deal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Well, DeoOpt did say he tried to rebuke the preacher in a "Loving way". I'm not sure how it's best to respond to him, but it may need to be harsh if he's leading thousands astray.


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## DeoOpt (Sep 12, 2008)

Josiah said:


> DeoOpt said:
> 
> 
> > My wife and I were getting ready for church last Lord's day I noticed the tire on the van was flat, I had to change it out for a spare, we new we did not have time to make it to our service so we visited a mega church near by. The speaker of the church told the congragation that we need to get out there and make God Famous. During his whole speach there was hardly any mention of Jesus or Sin, just a so called feel posative stuff. After the service the speaker (Preacher) walked over to me to shake my hand, I did not extend my hand to him, but in a Loving way I pointed out his err, but at the end of our conversation I told him that if he did mention sin that he would loose most all of his congragation. Im sure my words fell on deaf ears.
> ...


it's River of Life, there might be a river neer by but no life at the church..


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## DeoOpt (Sep 12, 2008)

Davidius said:


> It sounds like you are asserting that he is not a Christian by not being willing to even shake his hand. He may not have it together, but not returning a formal greeting and immediately sermonizing someone whom you just met is not the way to help. We just had a thread recently in which people were mentioned who immediately begin shoving their unwanted opinions' down others' throats. If I remember correctly, I thought that it was looked down upon in that thread, but here everyone is piling up praise. What's the deal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Your veary corect Davidius, thinking back I should have shaked his hand maybe it would have broken the ice. But looking back on it again the preacher did stop to listen and I did wish him a good day.


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## Josiah (Sep 12, 2008)

DeoOpt said:


> Josiah said:
> 
> 
> > DeoOpt said:
> ...



You should talk to a friend of mine at your church (Jan Schreve) about that church. She was a former member in it and would be might be interested to hear of your experience. Tell her the Lovetts say hello too


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## DeoOpt (Sep 13, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> *You didn't shake his hand?*
> 
> 
> Man, that sure is a way to win many friends and win points for the reformed faith.
> ...



There are some reformed churches that once a minister is through dilivering a sermon the elder would shake his hand. I asked about this once and it was told to me that the elder is agreeing with the minister and the sermon. So that was on the back of my mind. So I guess I was being jerky. And I dont seek our need applause from anyone. I am realy sorry that I upset you our anyone els on PB on the regards of my actions. But I thank you for the re-proof.


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## R Harris (Sep 13, 2008)

Davidius said:


> It sounds like you are asserting that he is not a Christian by not being willing to even shake his hand. He may not have it together, but not returning a formal greeting and immediately sermonizing someone whom you just met is not the way to help. We just had a thread recently in which people were mentioned who immediately begin shoving their unwanted opinions' down others' throats. If I remember correctly, I thought that it was looked down upon in that thread, but here everyone is piling up praise. What's the deal?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



A comparison between Job and 9/11? Ok . . . . . . 
That comparison is about as apple/orange as it gets.

This could take up an entirely different thread, but since when did the righteousness of the US even begin to compare with that of Job before his troubles? Was there ANY govt official, before or after 9/11, who used the language of Job? No, there wasn't.

So you believe 9/11 was a blessing, then? While there may have been a tiny handful of people who truly were regenerated because of the event, and the evil was meant for good for them, the _entire scope_ of the event was quite the opposite. As George Barna aptly demonstrated from his polling, the initial increases in churchgoing by the general public subsided after about 6 months, thus demonstrating any "awakening" was merely a mass foxhole conversion. This is why Douglas Wilson, among many others, believed that more judgments would follow, and have (e.g. Katrina).

There are a good number of reformed people who regarded 9/11 as a judgment. Certainly my comment is not the first one you have seen in this regard, is it?


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 13, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Deopt:
> 
> Just a further note: I would have fully approved of your actions had it been a clear false teacher.
> 
> ...



I often have a difficult time telling the two apart. Maybe I should make a separate thread about this.


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## asc (Sep 13, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Deopt:
> 
> Just a further note: I would have fully approved of your actions had it been a clear false teacher.
> 
> ...



Well, in how much err does someone need to be to be a false teacher? and what about preachers who agree with the truth of the gospel, but then neglect it in the pulpit? It sounded like the OP was complaining that there was no law or gospel in the sermon. Is preaching no gospel any different than preaching a false gospel?


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## asc (Sep 13, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> ALEX:
> 
> An alternate interpretation:
> 
> ...



So would it have been ok if he'd shook his hand and then given him an earful? 

Here's my hypothetical: 
Visitor A goes to average megachurch B and hears an empty sermon with no law or gospel: no clear heresy or denial of the gospel. Afterwards, the preacher goes to shake his hand....does he shake his hand and just walk out? not shake his hand and don't say anything? not shake his hand and say something? As a visitor, is it his place to rebuke him (if even gently)?

Personally, I'm quite shy and would probably just shake his hand and walk out without saying anything. But i don't know if it's really helping him in any way.


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## asc (Sep 13, 2008)

Pergamun:

regarding why sit through the whole service?

well, i don't know what happened in the OP, but my hypothetic is what i've been through before and imagine is common; the preacher isn't saying anything blatantly false, like works righteousness. but at the same time, he may never to preach any real law or gospel. this may not be completely apparent until the end of the sermon.


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## DeoOpt (Sep 14, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Alex: I am not sure what would have been the most God-glorifying thing to do. Denying basic courtesies require major offensive activities though. And if major offensive activities went on, why sit through the whole service.




ok so the fact that I sat through a whole 21-1/2 minut sermen was only to point out to my wife - who suggested she wanted to go and one of her co-workers goes there, (sory I did not mention that) So I pointed out to my wife and asking her were was Christ preached? were was Christ Gloified? - Anser, No were the whole sermon was about how there going to make God famous- like he is going to give God an attribute? So I allready seid I was sorry yet you keep draging me through the mud.. and when there was another thread started you mentiond about " Not extending someone hand because of courtesies?? although you did not mention my name but Im sure thats what you attended... So I gues you like mud slinging..


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## Pergamum (Sep 14, 2008)

DeoOpt:

Sorry brother. 

I have deleted my posts here and also edited my post in that other thread. 

It is better to win a brother than an argument. 

I think I was trying too hard to make my point (which I DO believe is valid, by the way, but not at the expense of picking at'cha). Please accept my apologies.


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## DeoOpt (Sep 15, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> DeoOpt:
> 
> Sorry brother.
> 
> ...



I forgive you my brother.. Thank you


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