# Charles Hodges Commentary and his relation to the Pentecostalists/Charismatics



## Eoghan (Sep 6, 2013)

Charles Hodge published the commentary on 1 & 2 Corinthians in 1857. What surprises me is that he refutes every charismatic/Pentecostal interpretation of the continuation of tongues. Am I correct is saying that the Pentecostal movement initiated around 1905 and the charismatic movement thereafter?

I recall a friend explaining to me that a company replaced the lead stained glass windows in a very old cathedral at their own cost, disposing of the old lead. What was not explained was that the old lead was worth a fortune because it pre-dated the atom bomb and in consequence was free of any contaminants. (I fail to recall precisely why contamination occurs or why it is significant.) What was important however was that the old lead was worth a fortune and the company made money on the deal.

I am minded that if I am correct and Hodge is expounding the text without the set purpose of refuting the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement because his exposition pre-dates it. In that eventuality I think Hodge's exposition is invaluable in current debates.

*Was Hodge totally ignorant of the modern Charismatic/Pentecostal movement?*


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## Eoghan (Sep 6, 2013)

Couldn't find the story on lead but did find this article on low background radiation steel Low-background steel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Peairtach (Sep 6, 2013)

He might have heard of Edward Irving - ironically once an assistant to Thomas Chalmers, Arnold Dallimore did a very interesting biography of him - but he wouldn't have heard of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.

Edward Irving - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


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## Eoghan (Sep 6, 2013)

Peairtach said:


> He might have heard of Edward Irving - ironically once an assistant to Thomas Chalmers, Arnold Dallimore did a very interesting biography of him - but he wouldn't have heard of the Pentecostal/Charismatic movement.
> 
> Edward Irving - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia



How prominent was Edward Irving in the US? Irving also seems to have been heretical in other respects. He appears to have entered into some sort of prophetic experience in 1930 some 4 years before his death.


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## Eoghan (Sep 6, 2013)

Really interested in the account published by a former acolyte 

NARRATIVE OF FACTS

Characterizing the

SUPERNATURAL MANIFESTATIONS

in

MEMEBERS OF MR. IRVING'S CONGREGATION

And Other Individuals In England and Scottland

and

FORMERLY IN THE WRITER HIMSELF

by

ROBERT BAXTER

Anyone know if there is an extant copy?


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## Peairtach (Sep 7, 2013)

I'm not aware that Irving had any connection with US, just that he lived in the early nineteenth century. So it's possible that Hodge had heard of him - but maybe not.

Dallimore's book has an account of how two women in Garelochside, later associated with him were the first to speak in "tongues" in modern Scotland.

Azusa Street in the early 20th century appears to have been a seperate development.

In both cases - the two Scottish women, and Azusa Street, etc - people appear to have believed that tongues should be for today due to poor Bible study, wanted the gift either to do missionary work or as a sign of second blessing/baptism with the Spirit, started speaking in an incoherent way, and then presumed that this was the real thing. Basically wishful-thinking based on a wishful and poor exegesis of Scripture.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Sep 7, 2013)

Edward Irving took on Open Air Preaching and received quite a few blows to head which effected him as I recall the accounts given in Dallimore's two volume set on Whitefield. He was sound till those blows took their effect upon him. From some old research I did years ago (if I remember correctly) the strange manifestation of supposed tongues has had its sprinkling throughout Church History. Moravians, Quakers, Revival preachers, etc. seemed to have spoken and held to these types of teachings.


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## bookslover (Sep 7, 2013)

It seems to me that Hodge's exposition of the relevant texts in 1 Corinthians just reflect his understanding of the problems mentioned. There were a few small proto-charismatic movements at various times in church history before Hodge's time, so he might have had those in his mind as he wrote. Of course, he could not have been responding to what we now call the pentecostal/charismatic movement, as he died in 1878, 28 years before the original pentecostal movement sprang up in California (natch!) in 1906.


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## Eoghan (Sep 8, 2013)

I was amused to read that "missionaries" were confounded when their net language ability failed on the mission feel. It was this failure which led them to the current understanding of tongues as a heavenly language. So they reinterpreted the scriptures in the light of experience - and have been doing so ever since.

We also need to be aware that other religions have tongue speaking incl. Mormons. (Mormon Q and A: Do Mormons Speak in Tongues | LDS Blogs)


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## Eoghan (Sep 8, 2013)

I wonder if Mormon belief and practice might have been to the fore of Hodge's mind when discussing tongues? Joseph Smith founded the Mormons 1820's??


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