# Book for someone fed up with the church?



## thistle93 (Dec 9, 2012)

Hi! Is there a book (besides the Bible) that you would recommend that I can give to someone fed up with the local church? This person is a Christian but they think that much of what passes for church today is just ritual, shallow, tradition and not genuine worship or community. In some areas he is right but to me this does not mean abandoning those whom Jesus Christ loves and died for but rather seeking to reform and strengthen the church. Thank you! 

For His Glory-
Matthew


----------



## Zach (Dec 9, 2012)

I haven't read it yet, but I picked up _The Church_ by Richard Phillips, Philip Ryken, and Mark Dever awhile ago at a Ligonier $5 Friday and it seems like it would be a good one. It's short (only around 130 pages) and I have a lot of respect for the authors. It looks at what the Church is through the lens of the Nicene Creed.

From the back:


> To love Christ is to love his Church. So say the authors of this fresh look at four defining characteristics of the church. Tough many people see the church as unimportant--even a hindrance to spirituality--this book reminds us that "the church is God's gift to his children for provision, protection, and growth. The church is the vessel for the display of God's glory" throughout the earth.


----------



## MW (Dec 9, 2012)

thistle93 said:


> Hi! Is there a book (besides the Bible) that you would recommend that I can give to someone fed up with the local church? This person is a Christian but they think that much of what passes for church today is just ritual, shallow, tradition and not genuine worship or community. In some areas he is right but to me this does not mean abandoning those whom Jesus Christ loves and died for but rather seeking to reform and strengthen the church. Thank you!



The Book of Revelation, especially chapters 2 and 3.

R. B. Kuiper, The Glorious Body of Christ, seems especially adapted to the problem. Written more from the Dutch Reformed perspective, and not as systematic as the work by James Bannerman, it is very edifying in the way it presents the daughter of the king all glorious within.


----------



## Gforce9 (Dec 9, 2012)

Pastor,
I think many modern books directly dealing with this subject will be from a post-modern and/or Emergent perspective; at least having a low view of Ecclesiology. From my lay, non pastoral perspective, I would point them to something that will challenge their low view of church. Then encourage them to submit to a denomination and local congregation that views Christ's bride and authority structure highly.


----------



## thbslawson (Dec 9, 2012)

Forgive me for not answering your question directly, but I've often found for people like this, unless the person is vivacious reader or has specifically requested something to read, that a book is really useless. By the time someone has reached this point, the last thing he wants to do is read another book. There are basically one of two things that have brought him to this point: 

1. Good understanding of Scripture regarding the church, but bad church experience.
2. Poor understanding of Scripture regarding the church, and bad church experience.

In my experience, it's almost always #2. What this guy needs then is not a book, but someone to mentor his thinking and a good church, one where he can hear the word, truly be part of a community and have his soul nurtured in a loving way. 

My recommendation, if you have a good relationship with this guy, would be for you yourself to study up on the subject, befriend him, and prayerfully walk through this alongside him. Hopefully in time the Lord will lead him to a proper understanding.


----------



## Calvinist of the Ozarks (Dec 9, 2012)

Christless Christianity by Michael Horton.


----------



## FenderPriest (Dec 9, 2012)

Why We Love the Church: In Praise of Institutions and Organized Religion by Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck.


----------



## rbcbob (Dec 9, 2012)

FenderPriest said:


> Why We Love the Church: In Praise of Institutions and Organized Religion by Kevin DeYoung and Ted Kluck.



That one sounds interesting! DeYoung has done some good work.


----------



## Tim (Dec 9, 2012)

thbslawson said:


> Forgive me for not answering your question directly, but I've often found for people like this, unless the person is vivacious reader or has specifically requested something to read, that a book is really useless. By the time someone has reached this point, the last thing he wants to do is read another book.



I agree.


----------



## Don Kistler (Dec 9, 2012)

"Onward, Christian Soldiers: Protestants Affirm the Church" , a compilation by MacArthur, Beeke, Sproul, Gerstner, and others. It's a Soli Deo Gloria publication, but I don't know if it's still in print or not.


----------



## Randy in Tulsa (Dec 9, 2012)

I agree with Jacob and Bob. Love DeYoung. Glad he's in the Gospel Coalition to help balance some things out. As a somewhat humorous aside, a few years ago, a ruling elder at the church we were attending handed my wife and I a copy of the book, "Quitting Church: Why the Faithful are Fleeing and What to Do about It." We weren't quite sure how to take that. But, we eventually did follow his "advice."


----------



## christiana (Dec 10, 2012)

Our worship, in church or out, is from our heart and there are times when we must ignore or rule out imposing or opposing factors and keep our heart tuned to Him and His glorious grace. I find this needed during times of loud, clacky, repetitive 'praise' songs that irritate my soul! At times I feel in a twist by the time for the sermon to begin and must ask our Lord to open my heart to hear His word!


----------



## FenderPriest (Dec 10, 2012)

Tim said:


> thbslawson said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me for not answering your question directly, but I've often found for people like this, unless the person is vivacious reader or has specifically requested something to read, that a book is really useless. By the time someone has reached this point, the last thing he wants to do is read another book.
> ...


Same here. If you're looking for a book, I recommend the one I linked to above. However, in my experience, people who bring up these questions tend to not be "book" people, and giving them another book is received as endemic of the problem. I'd recommend doing a James 1:19 here, "Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger." Be quick to listen to them because they probably feel like they're unheard. They may be heard, and don't realize that they are, but that's not their experience of these things. They _feel_ unheard, and you're only going to win them over by listening to them and hearing their concerns. They probably have valid input, and that's always worth hearing. Be quick to ask questions to understand what they're seeing, not questions that judge them as weak or being sinful. They may be those things, but we need to "admonish the idle, encourage the fainthearted, help the weak, be patient with them all" (1 Thessalonians 5:14). I think patience to hear and love our brothers who're struggling with whatever it is is key here. After hearing them, asking good questions, and drawing them out on _why_ they feel they way they do, _then_ they may be open to reading a book because they're confident you see them as a brother and are trying to walk along side them, rather than a problem to be fixed. Just giving somebody a book when they're struggling communicates that they're a problem that needs to be fixed and they need to get in line. That's not the love of Christ.

Hope that helps.
~Jacob


----------



## Jack K (Dec 10, 2012)

Without knowing more about the guy, I vote for the DeYoung book, too. I've read it and recommended it to others.


----------



## Relztrah (Dec 10, 2012)

thistle93 said:


> In some areas he is right but to me this does not mean abandoning those whom Jesus Christ loves and died for but rather seeking to reform and strengthen the church.


I think you've answered your own question, but not with a book title.


----------



## KMK (Dec 10, 2012)

Send them this excellent sermon by David Clarkson: Public Worship to be Preferred Before Private


----------



## housta (Dec 26, 2012)

This isn't a book so I apologize upfront, but this presentation has been very helpful to me. It's a presentation by Dr. Rod Rosenbladt called "The Gospel for those broken by the Church". I would start there and then build on that with the materials noted above like Deyoung's. The total ignorance of proper ecclesiology in the modern church is appalling and has caused many of us much pain. Encourage your friend to find a good, confessional church and encourage him that there are faithful pastors and churches where they can be safe and grow. I know because God has done that for my family and I.
Here's the link:
The Gospel for those broken by the church


----------



## MightyManfred (Dec 26, 2012)

I highly recommend this small book - it's well written and provides excellent and comprehensible explanations from the Scriptures why church ought to matter to any Christian: The Church: Why Bother?


----------

