# Did Adam Pray?



## VanVos (May 2, 2004)

Did Adam pray to God in the garden in sense that we pray today? I think the Cov. of Works (pre-fall) would not have contained prayer or faith. Although I do believe Adam had fellowship with God in Eden by the Spirit. Any thoughts?

God bless Van Vos


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## VanVos (May 2, 2004)

I think your right, it is speculation but I think it might throw a bit more light on what prayer actually is. The fact that we now live in this life in faith, hope and prayer is because of the breaking of the cov of works. In fact in someways it's act of humiliation on our part. It speaks of having no merit before a Holy God.

VanVos


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## VanVos (May 2, 2004)

Prayer in sense that we are asking God for those things that are according to his promises which are giving by grace. Adam did have the promise of erternal life in the garden. But if he hadn't of sinned, his obtaining of the promise of life would have been strickly judicial and meritorious within the cov. of works, which I believe would have precluded prayer in sense that we pray today. i.e. Dear father (with head bowed) have mercy on me. Does that help? 

By the way I like the photo 

oh and thanks Joshua for telling about signature 

VanVos


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## fredtgreco (May 2, 2004)

[quote:1ad4dd307e][i:1ad4dd307e]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:1ad4dd307e]
man always has had to have faith. he was/is never autonomous. He must always seek God's interpretation of the world in order to know it aright.

-Paul [/quote:1ad4dd307e]

Paul, is that true in light of Hebrews 11:1?

[color=Blue:1ad4dd307e]Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen[/color:1ad4dd307e]


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## fredtgreco (May 2, 2004)

Paul,

I understand. But what I mean is that faith throughout the Bible is contrasted with sight. Faith is an instrument. It would appear that both faith and hope will no longer be needed in glory, only love will remain. Why would we hope for what we have, or need faith when we are perfect? I think that permitting too broad a usage of faith brings us into problems when discussing Christ, who most certainly did NOT have faith. He did not need it. Will we in glory?

Now having said that, that does not solve the problem with Adam, since Adam was in a different position than we will be in glory.


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## VanVos (May 2, 2004)

Paul are you mono-covenantal if you don't mind me asking?
I don't believe Adam had to get on his knees to get anything from God in the garden. Although he would have got on his knees to worship but that wasn't inorder to get something from God.

But I do agree in way you described faith in general sense but I'm thinking of faith in sense of how we live our lives in this fallen world (2 Cor 5:7-8, Heb 11:1)

Thanks for your thoughts 

VanVos


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## Preach (May 3, 2004)

Paul,
According to Scripture, what was the first human sin? Do you assume that there was a sin that took place prior to the eating of the apple that was not inscripturated? I've wondered about this. According to Bahnsen (and I would imagine Dr. Van Til), when Eve set God's Word and Satan's word as hpothesis to be tested by her autonomy, that was sin (at leat in its embryonic state). Do you see what I'm driving at? What was the first sin? And how do you know the answer? Thanks brother.
&quot;In Christ&quot;,
Bobby


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## johnny_redeemed (May 6, 2004)

yes, no, maybe..... after reading all the posts i like what Paul has to say.


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## VanVos (May 7, 2004)

I found the comments to be very interesting. After thinking it through some more I believe that Adam didn't pray in sense of petition and supplication because he was morally upright and was not to appeal to God for the Kingdom to come but was under a cov. of works where he had to prepare the world for the Kingdom of God. He could not have ask for God strength because that would have been asking for grace and there was no grace in Eden before the fall. Does that make any sense? or help?

Blessings VanVos


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## Dan.... (May 7, 2004)

Pastor Goundry,

I think that matters on how &quot;grace&quot; is to be defined.

If you mean, &quot;saving grace&quot;, then, no, Adam did not know saving grace in the garden.

Yet Adam did enjoy many things, none of which he meritted the enjoyment of. Were these not non-meritoriously given to him by a Gracious Hand? (The light of the sun, the fruit of the trees, the companionship of a helper, life itself, etc...).

[Edited on 5-7-2004 by Dan....]


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## VanVos (May 7, 2004)

I am persuaded of the particular grace position. So grace is only found in Christ. The is certainly goodness outside of grace which could be defined as gracious, but ultimately the is only grace found in Christ. So in that regard I do not see any grace in the Cov. of Works. 

VanVos

[Edited on 5-8-2004 by VanVos]


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