# Let's get fictional!



## FrozenChosen (Jul 6, 2004)

Well, obviously we all read theological works here. But when you get away from the heavy stuff what do you like to read?

And what fictional books are you reading right now (if you say the Bible I'm paying someone to ban you)?

I'm working on the Illiad, but even more so I'm reading Robot Visions, a small collection of Isaac Asimov's robot short stories. To me it's pretty amazing that his fictional Fundamental Laws of Robotics are included in some dictionaries. Some of his stories are flat out anti-religious, but still in a sense enjoyable. He really knew how to turn a out a solid phrase.

It seems to me like I'm getting back into science fiction and fantasy. I have an urge to read mythological books (a fantasy genre of storts) as well as old science fiction authors like Bradbury. I also want to start reading Philip K. Dick, Nathan said something about him once.

Anyways, what kinds of fiction do you like? And what are some of your favorite novels?


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm reading [u:0d596e650b]The Hunt for Red October[/u:0d596e650b] by Tom Clancy (not for the first time). I always enjoy a good Jack Ryan yarn.

I also read [u:0d596e650b]Exodus[/u:0d596e650b] by Leon Uris recently. It's excellent historical fiction about the birth of the only democracy in the Middle East, Israel.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 6, 2004)

I just finished reading Brian Jacques [i:f1b6f153dc]Redwall[/i:f1b6f153dc] and I am laboring through [i:f1b6f153dc]The Brothers Karamazov[/i:f1b6f153dc].


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 6, 2004)

Tolkien is always relaxing. I'm trying to slowly work my way through the Iliad. Haven't got that far yet. Is it just me or does that story move really slow?


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## FrozenChosen (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm on, like, book two or something. The story is great, I don't know why I'm reading it more.

Fred really likes it I think.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 6, 2004)

[i:04fa8fa0d1]The Brothers Karamazov[/i:04fa8fa0d1] is devastatingly good, especially the chapter on &quot;The Grand Inquisitor.&quot; [i:04fa8fa0d1]Crime and Punishment[/i:04fa8fa0d1] is probably my favorite by Dostoevsky, though-- maybe because it was the first offering of sincere regard that my (then future) husband gave me .

Right now I'm reading [i:04fa8fa0d1]The King of Elfland's Daughter[/i:04fa8fa0d1], by Lord Dunsany, and [i:04fa8fa0d1]The Holy War[/i:04fa8fa0d1]. My favorite fiction so far is [i:04fa8fa0d1]Perelandra[/i:04fa8fa0d1] by C. S. Lewis, part of the space trilogy.

Lord Dunsany writes more like Tolkien-- I don't think his plots are nearly as good or as gripping; but his style in this book is just as breathtaking. One thing Tolkien does really well that other authors I've read don't do quite so well (though this book comes closer) is to give you this sense of the weariness of lengths of time-- when they have to ride out for days and days until they hardly have strength to go on, you feel that days and days have passed, and that you're on the verge of collapse before he's done telling you about it. Of course, we were driving through the night when we were reading this last...

I tried to read [i:04fa8fa0d1]The Iliad[/i:04fa8fa0d1] &amp; [i:04fa8fa0d1]The Odyssey[/i:04fa8fa0d1], but found myself not too enthusiastic for them. Everybody makes such a big deal about everything. But that was a couple of years ago: maybe I would enjoy them more now.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 6, 2004)

You need to get some Sandra Boynton for Chloe, (such as [i:61456bf09a]Moo, Baa, La la la[/i:61456bf09a]) so that she can get a well rounded fictional worldview.

http://sandraboynton.com/sboynton/index.html

(a quote from her website: &quot;in the time it would take you to read [i:61456bf09a]War and Peace[/i:61456bf09a], you could read every book Sandra Boynton has written...&quot

[Edited on 7-6-2004 by a mere housewife]


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## RamistThomist (Jul 6, 2004)

[quote:d36ee0cca2][i:d36ee0cca2]Originally posted by joshua[/i:d36ee0cca2]
The [i:d36ee0cca2][u:d36ee0cca2]Left Behind[/i:d36ee0cca2][/u:d36ee0cca2] series is great! And it's definitely fiction all the way through!

[/quote:d36ee0cca2]
A friend of mine and I do plan to write a postmillennial version of Left Behind, something like, &quot;Kingdom Now,&quot; or something.

I am kidding, sort of.


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## Scot (Jul 6, 2004)

[quote:9e3131b6ae]
The Left Behind series is great! And it's definitely fiction all the way through! 
[/quote:9e3131b6ae]

A couple years ago, my friend got me the movie for Christmas as a joke. I'll have to say that it's a pretty good comedy.


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## fredtgreco (Jul 6, 2004)

[quote:72bb9b7b38][i:72bb9b7b38]Originally posted by a mere housewife[/i:72bb9b7b38]
[i:72bb9b7b38]The Brothers Karamazov[/i:72bb9b7b38] is devastatingly good, especially the chapter on &quot;The Grand Inquisitor.&quot; [i:72bb9b7b38]Crime and Punishment[/i:72bb9b7b38] is probably my favorite by Dostoevsky, though-- maybe because it was the first offering of sincere regard that my (then future) husband gave me .

Right now I'm reading [i:72bb9b7b38]The King of Elfland's Daughter[/i:72bb9b7b38], by Lord Dunsany, and [i:72bb9b7b38]The Holy War[/i:72bb9b7b38]. My favorite fiction so far is [i:72bb9b7b38]Perelandra[/i:72bb9b7b38] by C. S. Lewis, part of the space trilogy.

Lord Dunsany writes more like Tolkien-- I don't think his plots are nearly as good or as gripping; but his style in this book is just as breathtaking. One thing Tolkien does really well that other authors I've read don't do quite so well (though this book comes closer) is to give you this sense of the weariness of lengths of time-- when they have to ride out for days and days until they hardly have strength to go on, you feel that days and days have passed, and that you're on the verge of collapse before he's done telling you about it. Of course, we were driving through the night when we were reading this last...

I tried to read [i:72bb9b7b38]The Iliad[/i:72bb9b7b38] &amp; [i:72bb9b7b38]The Odyssey[/i:72bb9b7b38], but found myself not too enthusiastic for them. Everybody makes such a big deal about everything. But that was a couple of years ago: maybe I would enjoy them more now. [/quote:72bb9b7b38]

Dostoyevsky is great. I highly recommend reading his works in the following order:

1. Crime and Punishment
2. Brothers Karamozov
3. The Possessed
4. The Idiot.

The Epic is an acquired taste, but it must be said that the Iliad and the Odyssey (along with the Aenid) are among the greatest things ever written.

If you don't have a taste for epic yet, let me suggest the following: first, read the Hobbit. (Yes) Then read the Lord of the Rings (Yes, this is all propaedutic). [u:72bb9b7b38]Then[/u:72bb9b7b38] read The Silmarillion. It is the last appearance of the epic. Then read the Odyssey. It is easier than the Iliad and can be read first. Then read the Iliad, then the Aenid, and then The Neibelungenleid.


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## cupotea (Jul 6, 2004)

Just about all of Jane Austen's books are marvelous. My favorite is &quot;Mansfield Park&quot;. [If you've seen the movie, you have my pity. Hollywood *slaughtered* the book!] In the book, the heroine is someone I'd very much like to resemble: she has a meek &amp; humble servant's heart and high standards/principles on which she will not bend. The classic &quot;Pride &amp; Prejudice&quot; is also a great one. :thumbup: Charles Dickens...I love his works, but I like to *listen* to them rather than actually read them. (Books on tape) It's the only way I've been able to successfully get through his work(s).


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## FrozenChosen (Jul 7, 2004)

Paul,

As always good to hear from you, and heck yeah...after reading some Berkhof and all I pick up Asimov and breeze through it. Like a breeze.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 7, 2004)

[quote:62b47bb8d2]
The Epic is an acquired taste, but it must be said that the Iliad and the Odyssey (along with the Aenid) are among the greatest things ever written. 
[/quote:62b47bb8d2]

Thank you for the advice, Mr. Greco. I will have to have another try at them. I have read a lot of Tolkien (though not the [i:62b47bb8d2]Silmarillion[/i:62b47bb8d2], but I need to re-read it; maybe when I've done that, I will have acquired more epic taste.

Kristine,

I love Jane Austen, too. It's unfortunate that she wrote only the handful of novels, and [i:62b47bb8d2]Love and Freindship[/i:62b47bb8d2] (misspelling hers). My favorite is [i:62b47bb8d2]Persuasion[/i:62b47bb8d2]-- she always writes wonderful satire, but I think she was able to also write something richer and truer in that book than her others, even in Anne being not quite the type of heroine we really want to be, because of being more truly flawed and weak. Have you read any books by Anne Bronte?
I like Dickens, too: he is like Jane Austen because he caricatures the ridiculous people, gives the good people what they deserve, and punishes the bad people. But I think there is more reality about wickedness and justice in Bill Sykes' death than in Miss Bingley losing Mr. Darcy.


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## Ianterrell (Jul 7, 2004)

The Silmarillion is amazing!


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## py3ak (Jul 7, 2004)

There is no lack of things to read, but here are the secular things I would be sorry not to have read, in order through the first four items, but after that it's too hard to decide.

1. Shakespeare. The Rape of Lucrece stands as The Pinnacle of English Literature. Plays I particularly enjoyed were Titus Andronicus, Othello and King Richard III.

2. Dostoyevsky. To Fred's recommendations I have to add Notes From the Underground. My Russian teacher reads through &quot;The Possessed&quot; every year, but I still have not read it. By the way, if you plan to read Tolstoy read him first --otherwise Dostoyevsky will spoil you for him. 

3. Katherine Mansfield. Absolutely everything she wrote. But if you are going to skip something by her skip the German Pension stories, which she later animadverted.

4. Anton Chekhov. I don't know what to say, except that living without reading Chekhov is like living without looking at the sky.

5. Emily Bronte.

6. T.H. White's &quot;The Once and Future King&quot; and &quot;Book of Merlyn&quot;. There is nothing else like this, there is no substitute for this, not even in the rest of T.H. White.

7. George Bernard Shaw. He is absolutely inimitable, always fun, stimulating and outrageous.

8. Oscar Wilde. His plays are excellent, &quot;The Picture of Dorian Gray&quot; is very good, but the best thing is &quot;De Profundis&quot;. That joins Dostoyevsky's &quot;Notes From the Underground&quot; as an essential short read.

9. Dicken's &quot;Our Mutual Friend&quot;. It is the best thing Dickens wrote, I think, and that's saying a good bit. To be fair, I have not read everything Dickens wrote, but it's definitely the best I've read so far. Still to come are &quot;Martin Chuzzlewit&quot;, &quot;The Old Curiosity Shop&quot;, &quot;Nicholas Nickleby&quot; and &quot;Little Dorrit&quot;

10. James Joyce's &quot;Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man&quot;. 

11. Victor Hugo's &quot;Les Miserables&quot;

12. George Orwell's &quot;Down and Out in Paris and London.&quot; This is one of the most entertaining books I have ever read. However, not all of Orwell is of this same quality. In fact, &quot;Keep the Aspidistra Flying&quot; is the most depressing book (in a bad way) I have ever read. After finishing I broke up with my fiancee. Fortunately, my Orwell-induced insanity was temporary and my then fiancee is now my wife --though we still have the book she hasn't read it.

13. Aldous Huxley's &quot;Brave New World&quot;. I enjoyed &quot;Heaven and Hell&quot; as well, but &quot;After Many a Summer Dies the Swan&quot; is probably a waste of time.

14. Virginia Woolf. &quot;To the Lighthouse&quot; and &quot;Night and Day&quot; are wonderful. Don't be misled by &quot;Orlando&quot;. She can do much better than that.

15. Edith Wharton's &quot;Ethan Frome.&quot; This is the most depressing book (in a good way) that I have read. Superb does not describe it. However, her other stuff is pretty weak.

16. &quot;The Wind in the Willows&quot;, by Kenneth Grahame, everything about Winnie the Pooh by A.A. Milne, &quot;Alice in Wonderland&quot; and &quot;Through the Looking Glass&quot; by Lewis Carroll and James Marshall's &quot;George and Martha&quot; books are great literature as well.

17. Thomas Hardy. I've never read a book by him that wasn't very sad and very good.

18. Miscellaneous Russians --Gogol (The Government Inspector and The Nose are madly funny), Pushkin, Tolstoy's &quot;Anna Karenina&quot; (since he called War and Peace &quot;wordy trash&quot; I don't feel very badly for not liking that one), Turgenev; Pasternak, on the other hand, was not worth much.

19. I second C.S. Lewis' Space Trilogy (the only science fiction that is really literature) and add &quot;Till We Have Faces.&quot; Everyone knows that Tolkien is fantastic, so to recommend him again would be redundant.

20. This isn't exactly great literature, but it is the only thing in the fantasy realm (barring Tolkien) that comes close. &quot;The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant&quot; by Stephen R. Donaldson. Of the two trilogies, the first is the better one, but both are great. I should issue a warning, however, that other things by this same man are anything but chaste, and these are the only books by him that I at all recommend.


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## Saiph (Jul 7, 2004)

[quote:f45294032b]
By the way, if you plan to read Tolstoy read him first --otherwise Dostoyevsky will spoil you for him.
[/quote:f45294032b]

Amen and Amen.

Dostoyevsky has made me almost decide to throw away all other fiction.

He is the master.


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## Authorised (Jul 7, 2004)

The Scarlet Letter was a book I really enjoyed; despite the bias Hawthorne had towards the Puritans, the ending of the book is somewhat redemptive. Also good for readers who like gloomy settings and long, drawn out sentences filled with about 15 commas, several semicolons, and that take up several pages. Very fine English.

Jane Eyre was suprisingly good, even though if it were made into a movie it would be a chick flick. 

I think the worst novel I've read was Great Expectations. Too many characters, boring plot and a completely predictable, but unsatisfying ending. 

Edith Wharton, in my opinion, could've come up with a better ending to Ethan Frome. Even I could have written a better ending.


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## cupotea (Jul 7, 2004)

&quot;Jane Eyre&quot; has been made into a movie...twice to my knowledge, maybe more. One version, by the BBC, is good. The other, oh my, typical Hollywood-slaughtering-literature. They made Jane's pastor-cousin a likeable character; in the book, he is what I would call a jerk. 
:flaming:


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## Authorised (Jul 7, 2004)

really? I don't remember the pastor being THAT bad, I just remember he wasn't very sympathetic to Jane about travelling to India, marrying him, etc.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 7, 2004)

Charlotte, Emily, and Ann Bronte's father was a pastor, but it appears that only Ann had any true understanding of the gospel. Charlotte, especially, thought she was suffering from some form of dementia to take her sins so seriously.

Anne's book [i:3346828eac]Agnes Grey[/i:3346828eac] has much better religious content. She also wrote a book called [i:3346828eac]The Tenant of Wildfell Hall[/i:3346828eac], which I think is also more truly reflective of Biblical truth, as well as being really good.

Emily didn't attempt anything religious, but I have to say that she was a better writer than either of them.

I think the pastor in [i:3346828eac]Jane Eyre[/i:3346828eac] was meant to be something of a &quot;jerk&quot; as you say. He was motivated by duty and *zeal, but not by love. I think she meant to make him that way-- I think that's what she thought of religion. And from her own experience, she was probably right.

*not zeal for the gospel, obviously, as that can't be divorced from love.

[Edited on 7-7-2004 by a mere housewife]


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## cupotea (Jul 7, 2004)

:thumbup: for &quot;The Tenant of Wildfel Hall&quot; :thumbup: That's another favorite!


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## py3ak (Jul 7, 2004)

*Project Gutenberg*

At this website, there are vast numbers of books available for download for free. 

http://promo.net/pg/


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## re4med4ever (Jul 20, 2004)

Just about anything from Taylor Caldwell
Shogun by James Clavell. Noble House is good, also.
The Winds of War by Herman Wouk. Also War and Remembrance.
The Far Pavilions by M.M. Kaye

I used to read alot more fiction, especially historical fiction, before I started homeschooling my last three children and teaching Irish dance almost every evening. Now when I get time I almost always read biographies or books and articles on theology.


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## Breadloaf (Jul 21, 2004)

*Good books*

My favorite is [u:de377c27cd]Ceremony [/u:de377c27cd]by Leslie Marmon Silko. [u:de377c27cd]The Remains of the Day [/u:de377c27cd]is also very good. Also, check out [u:de377c27cd]20,000 leagues under the sea[/u:de377c27cd] by Jules Verne. Oh - [u:de377c27cd]The Dark Knight Returns [/u:de377c27cd]by Frank Miller - totally revolutionary graphic novel.

Why are you people all reading Greek epics? Sheesh.

Yours,
Breadloaf


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## turmeric (Jul 21, 2004)

I finished a mystery by Dorothy Sayers, [i:3513f52a6a]Murder Must Advertise[/i:3513f52a6a]. Good light reading.


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## Ex Nihilo (Aug 4, 2004)

Jane Austen!!! She is my sister! And though I think [i:3963714f9a]Emma[/i:3963714f9a] is technically superior, I have to be cliche and say that [i:3963714f9a]Pride and Prejudice[/i:3963714f9a] is my favorite. I have a great admiration for Mr. Darcy (and the real life men who think like he does). Of course, Mr. Knightley is quite respectable, as well.

Edith Wharton is also excellent, for completely different reasons. I love how Wharton occasionally hits upon a profoundly striking statement, like this one from "The Touchstone": Only the fact that we are unaware how well our nearest know us enables us to live with them.

Tolkien, of course, is great, as plenty of people have pointed out. There is little I can add to that. 

Dostoyevsky: YES! I had the most exhilarating experience reading [i:3963714f9a]Crime and Punishment[/i:3963714f9a]--I ran through it within 3 days--so naturally, that's my favorite.

[i:3963714f9a]Moby Dick[/i:3963714f9a] is certainly interesting... Maybe I should start a thread to discuss the Calvinist/anti-Calvinist elements of that novel? Well, some other time, when my brain feels like working.

[quote:3963714f9a]
A friend of mine and I do plan to write a postmillennial version of Left Behind, something like, "Kingdom Now," or something. 

I am kidding, sort of.[/quote:3963714f9a]

I have known about this since you first conceived of this idea. No need to invite me aboard, my friend. I have my own pre-Messianic fantasy world to play with. I wouldn't have time to deal with your "Kingdom Now" or whatever. I'll just leave it to you boys. (insert heavy, but jesting, sour grapes.)


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## BobVigneault (Aug 4, 2004)

Golly, I almost feel obligated to list a classic title here. 
I just finished "Thr3e" by Ted Dekker. It was an amazing psychological thriller with a mind numbing twist. I highly recommend it. He writes in the style of Jeffrey Deaver if you are familiar with his books.


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