# BPC Collingswood and Dr. McIntire



## Barnpreacher (Jul 4, 2006)

Hello brothers. Just curious if anyone in this forum is familiar with Bible Presbyterian Church in Collingswood, N.J.? What are your thoughts about the church and your thoughts on Dr. Carl McIntire?

Thanks.

[Edited on 7-5-2006 by Barnpreacher]


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## Barnpreacher (Jul 4, 2006)

O.k. I just ran a search and saw that the Bible Presbyterian Church has been talked about some on these boards in the past.

It seems that BPC is kind of referred to as the "fundamentalist, dispensational" faction of the Presbyterian denomination. Is this an accurate assesment?

My question about that would be the matter of Paedobaptism. BPC believes in Paedobaptism. In my studies on the subject of paedobaptism I can't come to believe that a dispensationalist group could believe in a doctrine like that. It seems completely covenantal to me. So, I'm wondering how BPC could be dispensational and yet hold to the doctrine of paedobaptism?


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## Pilgrim (Jul 4, 2006)

This Post on the Presbyterian History Yahoo group may be of interest.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Barnpreacher_
> O.k. I just ran a search and saw that the Bible Presbyterian Church has been talked about some on these boards in the past.
> 
> It seems that BPC is kind of referred to as the "fundamentalist, dispensational" faction of the Presbyterian denomination. Is this an accurate assesment?
> ...



I'm not that well acquainted with the BPC, so perhaps someone else can fill us in a bit more. My understanding is that while premil (and not necessarily dispensationalist), they have always upheld the unity of the covenant of grace. Other reasons for their split from the OPC in 1937 included prohibition and "the separated life" in general and a more aggressive stance toward combatting modernism in American society at large (not just within the church), including cooperation with non-Reformed Christians in the American Council of Christian Churches. Francis Schaeffer was a member of the Bible Presbyterian Church from its inception but he and others later split with McIntire and eventually ended up in the PCA.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jul 5, 2006)

*I\'m not stepping on toes here, I hope*

Here is an historic overview. I am responsible for any factual errors I may have mixed up along the way. {edit: I have fixed a couple of errors}


Carl is dead now. If he truly loved the Lord only half as much as he professed him, then we should hope happily he is in heaven today.

Carl was, however, a deeply schismatic man. He left the mainline church in the shadow of Machen. But Carl was among those who within a year had maneuvered Machen out of the leadership of the IBPFM--the very issue that had precipitated Machen's trials within the mainline for the sake of the gospel. Said a heartbroken Machen, "The whole work is now in the hands of men who haven't the slightest idea what's at stake!"

Carl then led the BPs out of the fledgling OPC, fracturing the infant church, confident that his group was the future of conservative American Presbyterianism. Carl later split the tiny BP denomination, at least two more times. At the end of his long life he was leading a handful of people in a living room.

The first and largest BP splinter (renamed to the Evangelical Presbyterian Church) joined a church known as the RPC-GS (today's RPCNA Covenanters left that body in 1833), forming the RPCES, which by 1982 had joined the PCA.

The remainder of the BPs continued as BP-General Synod, until spliting with McIntire who maintained the separate BP-Collingswood Synod.

Faith Seminary, established in opposition to Westminster's (East) perceived bias against premillenialism, folded some time ago, following its own divisions. The remnant has continued as Biblical Seminary (indep.), Hatfield, Pa., originally under the leadership of Allan McRae (if I have my facts).

Today, the Bible Presbyterians continue a separate existence, as does the OPC, the church Machen helped to begin. The OPC has about 28,000 members. The BP's, the "future of conservative American Presbyterianism" have dwindled to only a few thousand. They maintain a Seminary in Washington State which has produced about 35 graduates in the past 20 years, about half of which were granted a Divinity degree (one man attends our Akron church). I am not sure if there are any current students.

*There are two men I count as dear friends who are pastors in the BP church,* and have met one or two others, as well as a handful of BP parishoners. There are strong, individual BP churches here and there. For all intents and purposes, BPC presbytery or denominational accountability is limited.



From an outsider's perspective, the existence of the BPC denomination is precarious. As long as there are committed men, the denomination will continue on paper. But BP churches appear to be closing faster than new ones are coming into existence. One tiny congregation in a community about 50 miles away from me just shut its doors within the past year.

Historically, the BPs represented the militant fundamentalist portion of the mainline church, strongly influenced by the Bible-conference movement, the Bible-college movement, before that the Sunday-school movement, and attendant to the conferences--dispensationalism (to a degree) but especially the premillennial part (dispensationalism as a system really is incompatible with Confessional theology). Dallas Seminary was started by a Presbyterian fundamentalist--Lewis Sperry Chafer.

With the ouster of the hard-core Reformed-theology types from the mainline, the fightin' fundamentalists were also removed. However, the fundamentalist faction expected (I believe) to have much more control in the newly formed presbyterian church. It was a quite contentious situation as the "undue influence" of Westminster Seminary, its faculty and former students, especially the "un-American" character of that influence (of men like Murray--a Scot, and Kuiper and Van Til--Dutchmen, was resented by McIntire and those standing with him. Their departure left the remnant even smaller and weaker numerically, but with a more clearly defined Reformed and Presbyterian identity. From which benginnings, a stable, confessionally minded church has emerged.

On the other hand, it appears that the last 100 years have demonstrated empirically that American fundamentalism and American presbyterianism have not been a potent mixture in this historical context. Dallas Seminary is a good example. It long ago lost any presbyterian identity, and has for a long time been an epicenter for Baptist-dispensational fundamentalism. Hybrid institutions like this seem to either become more fundamentalist and less presbyterian, or become more evangelical and less fundmentalist.

And in the case of the BPC, as they weathered their splits, the part that has continued as both presbyterian (to a degree) and fundamentalist has shrunk. Personally, I honestly believe that if the BPC remnant would look at the past and the present, and ask the OPC to receive them back, and pray God (!)the OPC acted graciously like they ought and not arrogantly, God would bless that reunion.



Keep the faithful always in your prayers.

[Edited on 7-5-2006 by Contra_Mundum]


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## Pilgrim (Jul 5, 2006)

Thanks for that summary, Rev. Buchanan. I think Western Reformed Seminary is the seminary to which you refer. Looks like they are averaging 2-3 graduates per year.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 5, 2006)

My dad was a missionary to Korea with the BPC when I was a little girl; the McIntires visited us there though of course I don't remember anything about that. I am told Mrs. McIntire brought me a blanket or some such. 

They are not dispensational but 'historic premil' -- they cite people like M'Cheyne, Bonar, Spurgeon (I think). In fact yes, I just did a search and pulled up this page, which says the tradition goes back to Justin Martyr and Irenaeus: http://www.faithtacoma.org/sermons/Eschatology/Eschatology_No_5.htm
And the denomination is indeed very fundamentalistic.

There are some very beautiful people in the little church we went to in Charlotte for years, that I still remember. What more I know of specifics is unfortunately reflective of some of the sadder things Bruce cites above. But indeed 'if [Dr. McIntire] truly loved the Lord half as much as he professed him, then we should hope happily he is in heaven today.'


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