# A Christian view of fastfood working



## Puritan Sailor

Johnny is too poor to go to a Christian worldview conference, buy lots of Christian books, or get a college education. He's not unintelligent. Just young and poor, from a family just as poor. At this point in his life McDonalds is the only place who will hire him. So lets help him develop an ethic of fastfood working to build into his Christian worldview. How can his ethic give him an apologetic where he works? How can he be an effective Christian where he is?


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## Herald

Do his job well. Obey his boss. Don't showboat his faith, *"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence"*


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## Archlute

Paul manata said:


> Shove someone's face in the fryer and ask, "Why was that ethically wrong given that we're just evolved bags 'o meat?"



Paul, that is seriously sick! (but my eyes teared up trying to stifle my chuckles...)


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## Puritan Sailor

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Do his job well. Obey his boss. Don't showboat his faith, *"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence"*



Ok. Let's fill it out some more. Other than the apologetic approach of sticking someones face in the frier  how else can he be a light in such a dark place? What will make him stand out as a Christian worker versus a hardworking pagan? Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?


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## Herald

Puritan Sailor said:


> Ok. Let's fill it out some more. Other than the apologetic approach of sticking someones face in the frier  how else can he be a light in such a dark place? What will make him stand out as a Christian worker versus a hardworking pagan? Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?



He can't do any of those things? I feel sorry for this poor slob you've conjured out of thin air.

Can we talk to Johnny directly? I'd like to know what he does understand about the gospel.


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## Herald

Puritan Sailor said:


> Ok. Let's fill it out some more. Other than the apologetic approach of sticking someones face in the frier  how else can he be a light in such a dark place? What will make him stand out as a Christian worker versus a hardworking pagan? Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?



In all seriousness, Johnny should do all the things I suggested. He should seek to build relationships with his co-workers that will lead to "divine appointments." If Johnny does not feel capable of presenting the gospel, he could always invite them to church. He can display acts of kindness. In short, he can carry himself in such a way that he will be antithical to the world around him.


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## bowhunter1961

i am that slob............maybe i should change my handle to SlobInCrisis


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## Bandguy

Agree with Bill and Paul above. All he can do is be obedient to God and share the Word of God and pray for his friends. It is God who will save the elect and bring them to repentance. Why would we try to make the simple complicated?


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## C. Matthew McMahon

Maybe even a more ethical question would be _should he work at McDonalds at all as a Christian_?

In other words, have you seen "Super Size" me?


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## Chris

Puritan Sailor said:


> Remember, he probably can't articualte things the same way we would on the Puritan Board. He probably doesn't know alot of theology. He probably can't answer fools according to their own folly. How is he to evangelize under those conditions?



That may help him more than it hinders him. He doesn't have any formal training or deep theological knowledge to get wrapped up in. When pressed, he may be able to do no more than revert to John 9:25..'I once was blind but now I see'. 

God seems to take great delight in using the simple, the base, the vile. Now where did I read that?


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## BJClark

Puritan Sailor;

He can show up on time, do his work, when others are standing around complaining he doesn't have to join in their complaints but work to make changes, even suggest some changes to his employer.

If others are gossiping about co-workers, or what a person orders he can walk away and not participate in their gossip, even letting them know (if they come-a-gossiping to him), he can certainly ask if they have spoken to the person directly about the problem they have with them? 

He could say something like..."I'm sorry your having such a difficult time with them, have you discussed that with them?" Maybe if you speak to them about it, they would consider making some changes."

If he see's something needs done, he doesn't wait for someone to tell him to do it, he just does it.

If he gets frustrated with someone, even a customer, and reacts in anger, he goes and apologizes to them if he has a chance before they leave, and even then he can apologize to those he works with who may have 'heard' his reaction.

If he see's customers struggling with small children he can offer to bring the food their table, so they can get their kids settled down..


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## Pergamum

Matt;

I guess he could always refuse to serve fat people more Big Macs... 

He could say, "Are you sure you want the regular coke maam...your hips are pretty thunderous already..."




Yes, I agree. Unless one has to work somewhere or starve, one could find a better job that doesn't kill people. 

But where? 

If they work at a gas station they end up selling condoms and prngphy to unmarried folks and delinguents, if they work at any restaurant they end up serving already obese folks. If they work at Walmart they could have to stock morning after pills, if they join the military they might or might not agree with every war (and I do believe it to be sin if they engage in a war they don't believe in). If they work in psychology or as a counselor or as a nurse or police man, there are always issues that rub. 


When working in the secular world it is very hard to be in the world and not of the world and to make a living without supporting something that is sin, or leads to sin, or does no good at all for society besides giving you a paycheck. Even to work for a secular business or working to enrich a secular boss seems frustrating... but I guess God wills to place people in all sorts of areas so that a light can be in all sorts of places. Some places would be, however, more trying, and these places I guess need more prayers. I guess the alternative would be to take a vow of poverty and find a desert - but this influences society even less.


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## Herald

People...puhleeze. Gimme a break. I don't know whether Matt was joking or not when he suggested poor Johnny finds a job that is more ethical. For those of you who are not tea drinkers exclusively  , don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? You'll buy your wine, beer or liquor and probably not think twice about those who drink to excess and are alcoholics. The same thing goes for those who eat at Mickey Dee's, Burger King or Wendy's. Should we tell the Christian employee who works at a liquor store to get another job because of those who abuse alcohol? Mmm?


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## Pergamum

I think I *would* advise a Christian employee who works at a liquor store to get another job if at all possible. 


It is not usually presbyterian elders that are coming in at midnight to buy 2 liters of Maddog for communion the next day.... MY time working for a secular master could be spent more wisely.


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## satz

BaptistInCrisis said:


> People...puhleeze. Gimme a break. I don't know whether Matt was joking or not when he suggested poor Johnny finds a job that is more ethical. For those of you who are not tea drinkers exclusively  , don't you think that is a bit hypocritical? You'll buy your wine, beer or liquor and probably not think twice about those who drink to excess and are alcoholics. The same thing goes for those who eat at Mickey Dee's, Burger King or Wendy's. Should we tell the Christian employee who works at a liquor store to get another job because of those who abuse alcohol? Mmm?


 


Even the plowing of the wicked is sin (Prov 21:4), but God never condemned working for an unbelieving master (1 Tim 6:2) so long as the Christian did not personally sin himself. Daniel, Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego and Joseph all served horrible pagan masters but did not consider it a sin to do so though their many duties would inevitably brought them in _indirect_ contact with sin. They refused to sin themselves, but did not consider it wrong to simply hold the positions they did. Paul was happy to call Erastus a brother though he was chamberlain of the city of Corinth (Rom 16:23,27). I do not believe being in a job that brings you into indirect association with sin is any cause of concern for a christian, or all jobs would have to be condemned.

Regarding the original question, I honestly believe that the answer is the same regardless of the job he works. Basically he should a) be a Christian, b) work hard and diligently at his job. I agree with Paul that if he does so consistently sooner or later he will distinguish himself from being just another ‘hardworking pagan.’

To put it another way, if we were to ask the question what is the Christian work ethic regarding employment, I think what the bible has to say is simply to work hard, treating each ask your employer gives you as if the Lord himself has asked you to do it. And to honor and obey your boss as being an authority figure ordained by God, because God loves authority, as it is one of his fundamental attributes. There might be more to say regarding the way he relates to and evangelizes his co-workers, but this has more to do with the general way Christians relate to those around them as opposed to being specifically about work or employment.



> Ephesians 6:5-8 *Servants, be obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in singleness of your heart, as unto Christ*; Not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but as the servants of Christ, doing the will of God from the heart; With good will doing service, as to the Lord, and not to men: Knowing that whatsoever good thing any man doeth, the same shall he receive of the Lord, whether he be bond or free.
> 
> Colossians 3:22-25 Servants, *obey in all things your masters according to the flesh; not with eyeservice, as menpleasers; but in singleness of heart, fearing God:* *And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;* Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ. But he that doeth wrong shall receive for the wrong which he hath done: and there is no respect of persons.
> 
> 1 Timothy 6:1-5 Let as many servants as are under the yoke *count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.* And they that have believing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren; but rather do them service, because they are faithful and beloved, partakers of the benefit. *These things teach and exhort. * If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.
> 
> Titus 2:9-15 *Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again*; Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that *they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.* For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. *These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority.* Let no man despise thee.
> 
> 1 Peter 2:18 Servants, *be subject to your masters with all fear*; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.


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## Pergamum

Yes, Mark's reply is very good, but in the freedom and opportunity of our country, why work in a place that helps influence people in a bad way? Usually, if one looks, one could find a better job. But, if those are unavailable, then like the servants of old, obey your unbelieving master and work hard. If able, however, find a better master.


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## Puritan Sailor

BaptistInCrisis said:


> He can't do any of those things? I feel sorry for this poor slob you've conjured out of thin air.
> 
> Can we talk to Johnny directly? I'd like to know what he does understand about the gospel.



I conjured him up because that is the population most overlooked by us Reformed folks today. Keep in mind, most Christians in the world today are poorer and less educated than even Johnny. Yet these are the folks whom God is using to spread the gospel throughout Africa and South America. I'm just trying to inject a little more pastoral reasoning into our theological discussions and show how a robust Reformed worldview is possible even for the poorest of the poor, even though they don't use the terms.


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## Herald

Puritan Sailor said:


> I conjured him up because that is the population most overlooked by us Reformed folks today. Keep in mind, most Christians in the world today are poorer and less educated than even Johnny. Yet these are the folks whom God is using to spread the gospel throughout Africa and South America. I'm just trying to inject a little more pastoral reasoning into our theological discussions and show how a robust Reformed worldview is possible even for the poorest of the poor, even though they don't use the terms.



Patrick, this is something that many Baptist churches have recognized. We may not be WCF Reformed, but we are well acquainted with ministering to disadvantaged and poor. I would argue that if "our" gospel (the gospel promulgated within Reformed circles) does not resonate with the poor of soceity, it is shallow and does not display the love of Christ (Matthew 25:34-46).


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## Puritan Sailor

These are great suggestions so far. But lets wrap it all up into one overarching principle, the sovereignty of God. God placed Johnny into the circumstances he is in, to be a light to those particular people, in the way God has equipped him. As Johnny is faithful, God will bless his labors as he sees fit, no matter how insignificant Johnny is in the eyes of the world. 

When Johnny begins to question the relevance of his life as a poor fast food worker, it is a Reformed view of God which bolsters his hope. God put him there to work through him. He is sowing seed in that place which not even he will see the fruits of, but God will reap it later. When he is ridiculed by the scoffers who like spitting in peoples burgers, he can be comforted in knowing that God changes the hearts of the worst scoffers and makes them obedient loving children, and Johnny can take comfort in knowing that he has played a part in God's plan by his testimony and prayers which may lead to their salvation, and has labored to please his God rather than men. As Johnny grows and matures and moves on to bigger and better things, his spiritual work ethic goes with him. The location changes, but the sovereignty of God remains, and thus so does his calling and comfort.


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## Puritan Sailor

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Patrick, this is something that many Baptist churches have recognized. We may not be WCF Reformed, but we are well acquainted with ministering to disadvantaged and poor. I would argue that if "our" gospel (the gospel promulgated within Reformed circles) does not resonate with the poor of soceity, it is shallow and does not display the love of Christ (Matthew 25:34-46).


I would agree. I don't think the problem is in the message itself but how and who we communicate it too. Too often we are so concerned with precision (which does have its place) that we lose the ability to explain things to the less educated in terms they can readily understand and apply. And sadly, too often they never hear this great gospel because we never even try to tell them. We are too comfortable in suburb life. So my point in this thread was to get folks to think more about the larger part of our populations. If you have already thought through it all then thats great.


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## Beoga

Paul manata said:


> Shove someone's face in the fryer and ask, "Why was that ethically wrong given that we're just evolved bags 'o meat?"
> 
> Seriously, though, I'd agree with Bill above.



As one who works fast food, I really like this answer. I don't know if I would want to use this on my co-workers, but instead on customers.
I think the best thing that young Johnny can do is study the Scriptures. These theological books, or apologetic books, while helpful, are not necessarily necessary. Johnny has the inspired word of God, which is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, and for instruction in righteousness. Johnny should study the Scriptures and proclaim its truths. Proclaim the Gospel and let the Spirit of God enlighten whom He will enlighten, and harden the heart of whom shall be hardened.


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## BJClark

trevorjohnson;



> Yes, Mark's reply is very good, but in the freedom and opportunity of our country, why work in a place that helps influence people in a bad way? Usually, if one looks, one could find a better job. But, if those are unavailable, then like the servants of old, obey your unbelieving master and work hard. If able, however, find a better master.



If God has placed them in the position...then God has placed them in the position...and they should stay UNTIL God places on their heart to leave, lest their efforts of looking for another job are thwarted by God Himself and they become frustrated and begin grumbling because they haven't found 'just' the right job, working for a 'better master'.

We are to learn to be content no matter where we are...no matter what we are doing...we are to do all for the Glory of God.

Why should one go out and 'look' for a better master if they haven't learned to be content where they are? That could be part of the reason God has placed them in the position they are in to begin with...to learn to be content where ever HE places them.


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## Bandguy

Puritan Sailor said:


> I conjured him up because that is the population most overlooked by us Reformed folks today.



And you know this...how? Are you perhaps projecting a little bit here? Or do you live a bit too much in theory land?


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## Bandguy

Puritan Sailor said:


> When he is ridiculed by the scoffers who like spitting in peoples burgers,



I am not saying this never happens anywhere, but as a person who worked fast food for many years in many different places, I can say that I never actually saw anything like that happen. As a matter of fact, the place was rather clean. I dare say, many times, it was cleaner than most people's homes. The managers typically keep a very close watch over the store and it is their rears on the line if anything happens. I remember hearing many times, "time to lean is time to clean". We were always either prepping, serving, or cleaning.


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## Bandguy

Puritan Sailor said:


> I would agree. I don't think the problem is in the message itself but how and who we communicate it too. Too often we are so concerned with precision (which does have its place) that we lose the ability to explain things to the less educated in terms they can readily understand and apply. And sadly, too often they never hear this great gospel because we never even try to tell them. We are too comfortable in suburb life. So my point in this thread was to get folks to think more about the larger part of our populations. If you have already thought through it all then thats great.




Who are these folks who never share the Gospel and are comfortable in suburb life, and how do you know all of this?


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## JKLeoPCA

trevorjohnson said:


> Matt;
> Yes, I agree. Unless one has to work somewhere or starve, one could find a better job that doesn't kill people.



Burgers don't kill people, people kill people. Need to keep the burgers under lock and key, for safety. Make sure they are unloaded when stored. You notice that NRA and FDA both are three letter acronyms, Hmmmmmm. 

But on a serious note, This is one of the reasons I like Luther. He sought to bring everything down to the common man. The German Bible and all his works were done to educate and bring the common man UP to the knowledge of God. And although Calvin's institutes are discussed in just academic circles, It was witten for the common man to grasp theology and have a guide to grasp things in the Bible. 

Our imaginary friend needs other Christian friends, a few deacons, and elders, that will care and nurture his growth, and not just leave him at McD's on his own. People that will pray for him, look for work for him, give him books they are done with, answer questions he might have....


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## Pergamum

Bobbi;

If you don't like your job you go look for another one - you need not wait till God zaps you or sends you a vision. Not liking a job and wanting out is enough cause to look for another one. 

I see what you are saying, but your suggestion would cripple initiative and hinder the drive to further one's education, etc. 

You can do ALL to the glory of God, to include finding a job that doesn't just feed the already overfed masses.


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## Bandguy

trevorjohnson said:


> Bobbi;
> 
> If you don't like your job you go look for another one - you need not wait till God zaps you or sends you a vision. Not liking a job and wanting out is enough cause to look for another one.
> 
> I see what you are saying, but your suggestion would cripple initiative and hinder the drive to further one's education, etc.
> 
> You can do ALL to the glory of God, to include finding a job that doesn't just feed the already overfed masses.



That is a nice plattitude. It doesn't put food on the table, however, when the man is responsible for his family and in a dead end job. I have been there in the past and gritted my teeth and stuck it out. God has called us to take care of our families, and sometimes that means staying in a job we don't like until God brings something else. And sometimes that means God might not bring something else. I agree with Bobbi that we should learn to be content with where God has placed us.


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## Pergamum

Bandguy:

It is not a platitude, it is called bettering your lot with the brains God gave you.

You may have to stick it out for a time and do your time as a high school student or college student working fast food to put yourself through classes - but you are there to put yourself through classes. You are working to better your lot. There is no need for it to be a dead end job for life unless you stick to your own platitude that, "Oh well, this is God's will for me..I just have to learn to be content..."

I've lived in 1,000USD for a space of 3 months while traveling extensively and had to sign one of my cars over to the tow truck fella because we had neither the time nor money to fix it. I've never had a new car and our last car in the US we had to tape the trunk shut with duct tape. By most standards I was not providing very good at all for my family..at least materially. 

Even if you work fast food 60 hours a week, there's a whole lot of other time to be studying or filling out other job applications if you want another job. 

The key is "if you WANT another job." If you are content enough to sit in your current position and blame it on God's predestinating purposes, go right ahead. 

But, if you want a better job, then in 90% of the cases, you can find one if you are willing to experience some short time deprivation away from your comfort zone. 


The best way to take care of your family is OFTEN to not grit out a dead end job.... 

Life is too short to report to a cubicle everyday for a paycheck to pay for the car you bought to drive to work to sit in your cubicle to earn a paycheck to pay for a car you drive to work. 


Sometimes it has to be done, and contentment must be learned in the short run until a better situation can be find. But by all means, don't try to use spiritual reasons to advocate someone "settle" for a place in life they dislike.




Is our imaginary friend desiring to go to college, is he looking for other work. Is he content with his job? What does our imaginary friend want out of life?


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## gwine

Bandguy said:


> That is a nice plattitude. It doesn't put food on the table, however, when the man is responsible for his family and in a dead end job. I have been there in the past and gritted my teeth and stuck it out. God has called us to take care of our families, and sometimes that means staying in a job we don't like until God brings something else. And sometimes that means God might not bring something else. I agree with Bobbi that we should learn to be content with where God has placed us.


While the apostle Paul does say that he had learned to be content with his situation, it may be God's will that a person should better himself for God's glory. 
He who wrote this:


> Phi 4:11 Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content.
> Phi 4:12 I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need.
> Phi 4:13 I can do all things through him who strengthens me.


and this:


> 1Ti 6:6 Now there is great gain in godliness with contentment,
> 1Ti 6:7 for we brought nothing into the world, and we cannot take anything out of the world.
> 1Ti 6:8 But if we have food and clothing, with these we will be content.
> 1Ti 6:9 But those who desire to be rich fall into temptation, into a snare, into many senseless and harmful desires that plunge people into ruin and destruction.
> 1Ti 6:10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evils. It is through this craving that some have wandered away from the faith and pierced themselves with many pangs.


also wrote this:


> 1Co 7:20 Each one should remain in the condition in which he was called.
> 1Co 7:21 Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity.


But as you rightly pointed out, sometimes God keeps us where we are so that we may glorify him by our obedience.


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## Bandguy

trevorjohnson said:


> The key is "if you WANT another job." If you are content enough to sit in your current position and blame it on God's predestinating purposes, go right ahead.




I don't mean to be rude, but are you a fan of Joel Osteen by any chance? Or do you not acknowledge that sometimes God's predestinating purposes sometimes puts us in situations that might not make us exactly happy. I am quite sure Isaiah was not too thrilled to know that he would preach God's Word to his people and that the end result would be them hearing, but never hearing and ultimately God's judgment would reighn down on his countrymen and only a remnant would remain. I am quite sure, however, that just as God told Paul, that His grace was sufficient for him. For some, I am sure that God has willed to live very comfortable lives like we do in America (even our poor relative to the rest of the world). For some, I am sure that God has willed that they live very uncomfortable lives in persecution as did much of the early Church and as does many Christians today living outside of the United States. When Paul was in prison, I don't read where he tried to better himself. I read where he learned about the grace of God bringing contentment, joy, and opportunities to preach the Word. I have no doubt that prison was not Paul's favorite place in the world, but it certainly was where God wanted him at that time.


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## etexas

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Do his job well. Obey his boss. Don't showboat his faith, *"but sanctify Christ as Lord in your hearts, always being ready to make a defense to everyone who asks you to give an account for the hope that is in you, yet with gentleness and reverence"*


BIG.......DITTO!


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## Andrew P.C.

Paul manata said:


> Shove someone's face in the fryer and ask, "Why was that ethically wrong given that we're just evolved bags 'o meat?"
> 
> Seriously, though, I'd agree with Bill above.



Lol, that is pretty sick. I would have done something a little more gentle.



Bill is correct though.


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## Bandguy

joshua said:


> Furthermore, we need not be paralyzed in our workings as Christians. No doubt, if God doesn't want us to be somewhere, He'll see to it. Nonetheless, it is not sinful to seek to further ourselves so long as it is to the glory of God and according to His Word. Do we wait to find out if a sinner has been regenerated (as if we are even capable of knowing such a moving of God's Spirit) before we urge them to repent? No! So do we tell a Christian, or ourselves, "Wait until God has had your manager fire you, or until someone walks up to you out of the blue and offers a better job, before you even think of looking elsewhere."? I certainly would hope not.



Of course not. I believe I was responding directly to Trevor's statement about being predestined to certain things in life. Of course Paul did what he could to not be in prison. Once he was there, however, I don't believe we saw him moaning about it or fighting it. He was praising God and witnessing while he was there. He was content with his plight. There are those in this world, and even in this country, who will never have the opportunity to better themselves like many of us have and they should be content with where they are in life.


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## JKLeoPCA

Vocation, is your calling (vocal). They have elements to look for though. Something(s) you want to do, married to the abilities God has blessed you with, confirmed by those around you and those already in that field. I could never say I am called to be an astronaut, because I have not the care or aptitude for the job, no matter how much I might like the idea of space travel. The dreamer imagines himself to be something he will not aspire to put effort towards, where the opposite person has his mind on where he is, and what he is doing, and makes every effort towards that which is calling him. 

Within God’s providence, we may be content to suffer in some job to make ends meet, and yet still pray and search out other means by which God may use us. I can, and to a point do, suffer at my current job, and yet I have not, in a stoic manner, surrendered that this must be all that God has for me. I have a calling to strive past this job, as being content to consider this current job only a stepping stone. Still God can make use of anyone in any station in life. He made use of kings, fishermen, and tax collectors. 

I would still liek to reiterate that our imaginary friend is not, nor should not be viewed in his job, as all alone. There should be a church full of elders and deacons and people praying for and helping him to reach towards that for which he is called.


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## BJClark

trevorjohnson;



> If you don't like your job you go look for another one - you need not wait till God zaps you or sends you a vision. Not liking a job and wanting out is enough cause to look for another one.
> 
> I see what you are saying, but your suggestion would cripple initiative and hinder the drive to further one's education, etc.
> 
> You can do ALL to the glory of God, to include finding a job that doesn't just feed the already overfed masses.



My point wasn't that they don't continue to look for something else, but that they learn to be content where they are until God takes them elsewhere.

I have worked jobs I didn't like...but learned to be content there, even while looking for something else...making the best of where God placed me at that time, and even though I hated the work, because of my attitude and appreciation of even HAVING the job...God blessed that with friends at that company, and a good reference to my future employer.

I have also worked with many people who have hated their jobs and grumbled the entire time...they looked and looked and looked and ended up getting fired. Some called themselves Christians, never learning to be content where God placed them for that season of their life...the longer they stayed and LOOKED for something else without finding anything...the more frustrated they became, and the more they grumbled, which in turn caused them to get get fired...so they had no job in which to support their families.

God provides our job, no matter WHERE it's at, and if we do not learn to appreciate it and be content with where God has us (even a dead end job we HATE)...He can certainly TAKE the job away, where we have nothing at all.

So even if you don't like a job, you make the best of it...while your there.


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## Pergamum

Joseph;

I do like Joel Osteen's smile  I just wish it would stop there and he wouldn't open his mouth....


Paul DID try to better himself while in prison, That is what the business was all about when he sent for his coat and his parchments.

Paul tried to better himself in persecution too, that is why he appealed with his Roman citizenship.

Paul worked as a tentmaker, prayed for doors to open and also appealed for funds to help the poor Jerusalem church.



How does god "take people elsewhere"? God takes people to other jobs by use of that persons desires and his feet. Again, a passivity waiting for God to act negates the means through which God gives you to act - i.e. your will, desires, feet, work ethic, etc.


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## BJClark

trevorjohnson;




> How does god "take people elsewhere"? God takes people to other jobs by use of that persons desires and his feet. Again, a passivity waiting for God to act negates the means through which God gives you to act - i.e. your will, desires, feet, work ethic, etc.



I agree, but their still needs to be a contentment where they are WHILE they are there...

Sometimes God promotes them from the position they are in--a perfect example would be Joseph, he even went to prison, he learned to be content while in prison, and God promoted him up as a slave, many years later God promoted him up to second in command after Pharoah. He didn't go out looking for anything else (he couldn't), he just told someone who was leaving jail to remember him when the time comes...

But I don't know why people assume working at a fast food place flipping burgers is a dead end job, I know two people personally who started out working at the bottom of such companies. God promoted them up the ranks of the company...they started out flipping burgers, promoted up to assistant manager, then shift managers, then store managers now they are regional managers. It's certainly not what they envisioned their careers being, but both of them love the path their careers have taken them.

So nobody is saying...not to take advantage of various opportunities while working some where...were just saying...learn to be content while they are there. It may be two, three or four years before they move up or on to something else.

As I sit here and write this, I am reminded of my daughter and two of her friends, they are seniors in high school and have worked in a daycare as teachers assistants for the past two years...they are the one's who are called upon to clean up after the babies, change dirty diapers, and doing what they consider the 'icky' work...one of the girls began complaining about being called on ALL the time to do the icky work and the teachers NEVER doing it..that negative attitude soon spread to my daughter and the other young lady, to the point my daughter was ready to quit, something she really loves doing..all because she didn't like one aspect of the job. 

That one aspect of the job became the main focus of discontent for all three of these young ladies. My daughter would come home complaining and grumbling about the one aspect of the job, and how she was ready to quit...All of them spoke to their parents--one of the girls mothers told her "if she hates it that much then quit" (she quit) the other girls parents told her "stay and stick it out" (she quit anyway).

I sat down with my daughter and asked "is that all you do; change stinky diapers?" She was like "well, no" I said okay, what else do you do? And she began listing all the things she does--and she began seeing all the things she absolutely LOVES about her job and why she wanted to work there to begin with. It took her focus off the negative, and put it on the positive.

She had gone to another daycare with one of the other girls to get an application, didn't even fill out the application but was offered a job, to her horror they called her current employer to give my daughter a message asking her to start that afternoon. (her employer didn't even know she was thinking about quitting). She called me from school in tears asking what she should do, I said go to your supervisor and talk to her, be honest about what was going on. Her boss was understanding, and told her take the weekend and think about it, and let her know the following week what she would like to do. That afternoon she talked to one of the teachers she worked with, and that weekend she and I talked some more about it...she went back in the following Monday and talked to the boss, and let her know...She doesn't want to quit, she wanted to stay. She stopped focusing on the negative and began enjoying things again.

Both the young ladies who quit, wish they could come back, because they miss it, one of them has gone back to the boss and apologized for quiting so abruptly and leaving her in a lurch trying to find replacements, and let her know she realizes she messed up leaving just because she was frustrated. And said, she realizes she can't come back as an employee but could she come back and volunteer her time a couple days a week after school, to which she said she could. In turn she gets volunteer hours that she can put on job applications, as well as future college applications.

The other young lady, is standing in her pride, and discontentment, even while she wishes she could go back and is blaming everyone else for her not being able to even volunteer her time, both my daughter and the other young lady...have pretty much stopped associating with this other young lady. They realize her negativitiy was being fed to them, and they don't like it. 

They realized it wasn't just effecting their work environment, but other aspects of their lives, like school, and other friendships. 

They are learning negativity and discontentment from one person can breed negativity and discontentment in others, and are both removing themselves as far away from it as possible, which is truly an awesome lesson for them to learn as teenagers.


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## Pergamum

Good example Bobbi. A fine post. I agree.


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## gwine

Sometimes a door is just a door. Just because another job comes along it doesn't mean God wants you to step on through.

OTOH, maybe going through one door leads to another one through which God wants you to go.


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## Staphlobob

Andrew P.C. said:


> Lol, that is pretty sick. I would have done something a little more gentle.
> 
> Bill is correct though.



In reality such a response has some very significant logic behind it. Teleologically speaking, if there is no God or afterlife, then it really doesn't matter if we stick someone's face in hot grease or not. After all, life would be completely meaningless. We die, and that's it. Because there's nothing that comes afterward, nothing beforehand matters. 

I think it's important to let atheists know that, according to their own eschatology, they can raise their children to be good citizens (if they wish). Or they can raise them to be a good source of protein. In the end it really doesn't matter.

Universalists suffer the same fate. If Hitler is at the heavenly banquet yukking it up with the 6 million Jews he killed, then it's best to kill as many as we can and send them all to heaven. Abortion is already in place, so let's take a Bowie knife to the neonatal unit and get to work sending souls to heaven. And if people object, then we make sure we kill ourselves before the police can get to us. 

The fact is, even Sartre denied his own atheistic existentialism just before he died, claiming he couldn't shake the idea of some kind of destiny. (Simone De Bouvier was pretty upset with him for this.) And I think it was Camus (an absurdist?) who, after contemplating existence without God, said "The only significant question is whether or not to commit suicide." He was right. 

So, while Christians certainly may not stick someone's face in hot grease, it's perfectly alright for an atheist or universalist to do so.


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## Theoretical

Staphlobob said:


> In reality such a response has some very significant logic behind it. Teleologically speaking, if there is no God or afterlife, then it really doesn't matter if we stick someone's face in hot grease or not. After all, life would be completely meaningless. We die, and that's it. Because there's nothing that comes afterward, nothing beforehand matters.
> 
> I think it's important to let atheists know that, according to their own eschatology, they can raise their children to be good citizens (if they wish). Or they can raise them to be a good source of protein. In the end it really doesn't matter.
> 
> Universalists suffer the same fate. If Hitler is at the heavenly banquet yukking it up with the 6 million Jews he killed, then it's best to kill as many as we can and send them all to heaven. Abortion is already in place, so let's take a Bowie knife to the neonatal unit and get to work sending souls to heaven. And if people object, then we make sure we kill ourselves before the police can get to us.
> 
> The fact is, even Sartre denied his own atheistic existentialism just before he died, claiming he couldn't shake the idea of some kind of destiny. (Simone De Bouvier was pretty upset with him for this.) And I think it was Camus (an absurdist?) who, after contemplating existence without God, said "The only significant question is whether or not to commit suicide." He was right.
> 
> So, while Christians certainly may not stick someone's face in hot grease, it's perfectly alright for an atheist or universalist to do so.


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