# Is There a Need/Desire for Reformed Philosophers?



## Ulster Fry (Dec 23, 2022)

Greetings,

I am curious as to what the Reformed community thinks about having its own philosophers working in the field of academic philosophy. One of the defences I give to folks asking why I am studying philosopher is that the Church needs its philosophers. More specifically, I believe the Reformed church would greatly benefit from more working in this area and doing serious academic philosophy.

A common criticism (often justified) is that Christian philosophers are typically unorthodox in their theology and that they bring more confusion than clarity. However, I think this criticism could easily be applied to modern theology in general. Surely the solution to this is to have more orthodox thinkers involved, rather than withdrawing ourselves?

What do you think? Are philosophers more trouble than they're worth? Should we be pushing those wanting to study philosophy into theology/pastoral ministry instead?

An additional note - I'm well aware the elephant in the room here is the state of the modern woke universities. That may be a factor in why people vote one way or the other. Again, my opinion is that having solders on the frontline fighting against naturalistic philosophy or postmodernism is better than not (while we still can). Though I would strongly caution against anyone studying philosophy without a solid grasp of Reformed theology and its history.


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## Polanus1561 (Dec 23, 2022)

You would need to have something as your bread and butter work to pay the bills, eg being a professor teaching non philosophy stuff

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## Ulster Fry (Dec 23, 2022)

Polanus1561 said:


> You would need to have something as your bread and butter work to pay the bills, eg being a professor teaching non philosophy stuff


Let me clarify - I'm talking about Reformed Christians working professionally as philosophers in an academic context. This could be in a philosophy or divinity department, at a Christian or secular university. They would be doing research or teaching in philosophy. Many (most?) secular universities teach philosophy of religion, for example.


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## Polanus1561 (Dec 23, 2022)

Ulster Fry said:


> Let me clarify - I'm talking about Reformed Christians working professionally as philosophers in an academic context. This could be in a philosophy or divinity department, at a Christian or secular university. They would be doing research or teaching in philosophy. Many (most?) secular universities teach philosophy of religion, for example.


Then you have to navigate the competitiveness of job opportunities in academic today plus whether a reformed view would narrow your chances even more. depends also if you can get that key early scholarship for a PhD at the early stage


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## Ulster Fry (Dec 23, 2022)

Polanus1561 said:


> Then you have to navigate the competitiveness of job opportunities in academic today plus whether a reformed view would narrow your chances even more. depends also if you can get that key early scholarship for a PhD at the early stage


Sorry - let me clarify again. This isn't a question about me or individual Reformed Christians wanting to study philosophy professionally. This is a question for the Reformed community - do people within the Reformed churches see a need for Reformed Christians doing professional work in philosophy? Would this be of benefit to the church? As an example, would it be helpful to have a Reformed philosopher who can operate in a professional capacity in philosophy of mind? That has huge implications for free will, human responsibility, God's sovereignty, and so forth. I'm unsure whether a theologian has the sort of time and resources to tackle this as well as a philosopher could.

Another example is to point to Christian philosophers today, such as William Lane Craig, who is doing both professional philosophical work and popular apologetics. He is neither Reformed nor orthodox on various Christian doctrines (though I greatly appreciate his work). He is very influential and is continually engaged with professional philosophers and scientists arguing for the coherency of Christianity. But wouldn't it be better to see Reformed figures doing this?

I hope this adds some clarity as to what I am asking.


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## Polanus1561 (Dec 23, 2022)

Ulster Fry said:


> Sorry - let me clarify again. This isn't a question about me or individual Reformed Christians wanting to study philosophy professionally. This is a question for the Reformed community - do people within the Reformed churches see a need for Reformed Christians doing professional work in philosophy? Would this be of benefit to the church? As an example, would it be helpful to have a Reformed philosopher who can operate in a professional capacity in philosophy of mind? That has huge implications for free will, human responsibility, God's sovereignty, and so forth. I'm unsure whether a theologian has the sort of time and resources to tackle this as well as a philosopher could.
> 
> Another example is to point to Christian philosophers today, such as William Lane Craig, who is doing both professional philosophical work and popular apologetics. He is neither Reformed nor orthodox on various Christian doctrines (though I greatly appreciate his work). He is very influential and is continually engaged with professional philosophers and scientists arguing for the coherency of Christianity. But wouldn't it be better to see Reformed figures doing this?
> 
> I hope this adds some clarity as to what I am asking.


Apologies, I approached this from your own individual perspective of studying.

but yes, if you follow figures like Frame and Poythress

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## Ulster Fry (Dec 23, 2022)

Polanus1561 said:


> Apologies, I approached this from your own individual perspective of studying.
> 
> but yes, if you follow figures like Frame and Poythress


No problem, it gave me an opportunity to add some further points of clarity. And obviously it does have implications for someone like me who is interested in studying philosophy professionally. Ultimately, Christians committed to studying philosophy want to be (or should want to be) of benefit to the church. What I want to know is whether Reformed churches are interested or should have more of an interest in having its own distinctly Reformed philosophers.

Since you've mentioned Frame, I'm curious whether people want to add that further caveat - they would only want Reformed philosophers within that Van Tilian school of thought (which I don't personally subscribe to).


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## Charles Johnson (Dec 23, 2022)

Philosophy is useful for theology when it addresses things like logical categories, fallacies, valid and invalid syllogisms, etc. But those things are not the focus of modern day continental philosophy, which, since Descartes, has grown increasingly sophistic. So I voted no. You will have to forgive me for ignoring the analytic philosophers.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 23, 2022)

There is a need for clear thinking, but there is very little demand at the university level

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## Jeri Tanner (Dec 23, 2022)

Philosophy used to be basic to study for the ministry, as I understand. Surely its foundational nature to thinking gave rise to our reformation forefathers, I think of the Westminster divines in particular. I do suspect that at least the basics of philosophy, its bent shaped and derived of course from the Scripture, are valuable to every Christian but most especially our pastors. The Bible itself will teach us godly philosophy if we pay close attention. 

But as far as “the Reformed community having its own philosophers working in the field of academic philosophy”; I don’t think the visible Reformed church is in any state to support this, as being done in godliness and in fear and trembling, in these days. We are so declined from true reformation and godliness. Philosophy only has a use in the church if it lends to greater piety and advances Spirit-empowered preaching and teaching. I don’t think the church could depend on it coming from the hands of academics.

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## Ulster Fry (Dec 23, 2022)

Jeri Tanner said:


> Philosophy used to be basic to study for the ministry, as I understand. Surely its foundational nature to thinking gave rise to our reformation forefathers, I think of the Westminster divines in particular. I do suspect that at least the basics of philosophy, its bent shaped and derived of course from the Scripture, are valuable to every Christian but most especially our pastors. The Bible itself will teach us godly philosophy if we pay close attention.
> 
> But as far as “the Reformed community having its own philosophers working in the field of academic philosophy”; I don’t think the visible Reformed church is in any state to support this, as being done in godliness and in fear and trembling, in these days. We are so declined from true reformation and godliness. Philosophy only has a use in the church if it lends to greater piety and advances Spirit-empowered preaching and teaching. I don’t think the church could depend on it coming from the hands of academics.


On your first point - contemporary philosophy is very different from the classical or scholastic philosophy that would have been of use in ministry back then. My own experience of philosophical education, which is largely in the analytic tradition, has been extremely biased towards naturalism. I don't think that would be of any use to ministers outside of some sort of apologetic function. Though it does teach one to think in a precise, rigorous manner, and the difficulty of trying to present a coherent Christian worldview to an audience very sceptical of any strongly metaphysical claims. I think we need philosophers who provide such arguments for ministers to use.

As for the second point, I would argue that the early church, operating from less than ideal circumstances, had many apologists/philosophers writing against heresy of all kinds and arguing for the truth claims of Christianity. Additionally, one of the reasons I chose to study philosophy was to deal with the philosophical arguments made by confessing Christian philosophers who deny the orthodox doctrines of God. Most of the opponents of said Christian philosophers are Roman Catholic philosophers. Paul Helm is one of the few Reformed classical theists, and I think there ought to be more.

On that point, there is an atheist whose PhD research is on the doctrine of divine simplicity and the disagreement between the Christian philosophers. He thinks that those denying the orthodox view of divine simplicity (Plantinga, Craig, etc) are, philosophically, making the better arguments. Reasons like these are why I believe we ought to have more Reformed orthodox philosophers, or at the very least theologians who can engage with the arguments.


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## Jeri Tanner (Dec 23, 2022)

Ulster Fry said:


> On your first point - contemporary philosophy is very different from the classical or scholastic philosophy that would have been of use in ministry back then. My own experience of philosophical education, which is largely in the analytic tradition, has been extremely biased towards naturalism. I don't think that would be of any use to ministers outside of some sort of apologetic function. Though it does teach one to think in a precise, rigorous manner, and the difficulty of trying to present a coherent Christian worldview to an audience very sceptical of any strongly metaphysical claims. I think we need philosophers who provide such arguments for ministers to use.
> 
> As for the second point, I would argue that the early church, operating from less than ideal circumstances, had many apologists/philosophers writing against heresy of all kinds and arguing for the truth claims of Christianity. Additionally, one of the reasons I chose to study philosophy was to deal with the philosophical arguments made by confessing Christian philosophers who deny the orthodox doctrines of God. Most of the opponents of said Christian philosophers are Roman Catholic philosophers. Paul Helm is one of the few Reformed classical theists, and I think there ought to be more.
> 
> On that point, there is an atheist whose PhD research is on the doctrine of divine simplicity and the disagreement between the Christian philosophers. He thinks that those denying the orthodox view of divine simplicity (Plantinga, Craig, etc) are, philosophically, making the better arguments. Reasons like these are why I believe we ought to have more Reformed orthodox philosophers, or at the very least theologians who can engage with the arguments.


Yes, I can't hang intellectually very far in the conversation, I'm afraid, and am sure I miss many points about your question and its ramifications for the church. Standing by what I said (I think, unless I misspoke in what I was trying to say), I'll look forward to others' input.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 23, 2022)

I’ll say more when I get back to a computer. There is absolutely a need for philosophical rigour. I’m just not sure the university offers the best employment. A degree, Howe, can still open doors.


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## davejonescue (Dec 23, 2022)

I dont know if this is of any regard to you. I was going over some names in Calamys "Non-Conformist Memorial" today, linking some works up in Zotero, and came across the work of a Non-Conformist Puritan by the name of Theophilus Gale. I think this is a section of a greater work entitled "The Court of the Gentiles" but it is a section entitled "Reformed Philosophy." Maybe it can help you for future research into this topic. God Bless.


The court of the gentiles. Part IV. Of reformed philosophie wherein Plato's moral and metaphysic or prime philosophie is reduced to an useful forme and method / by Theophilus Gale.

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## Tychicus (Dec 23, 2022)

davejonescue said:


> I dont know if this is of any regard to you. I was going over some names in Calamys "Non-Conformist Memorial" today, linking some works up in Zotero, and came across the work of a Non-Conformist Puritan by the name of Theophilus Gale. I think this is a section of a greater work entitled "The Court of the Gentiles" but it is a section entitled "Reformed Philosophy." Maybe it can help you for future research into this topic. God Bless.
> 
> 
> The court of the gentiles. Part IV. Of reformed philosophie wherein Plato's moral and metaphysic or prime philosophie is reduced to an useful forme and method / by Theophilus Gale.


Here is an interesting paper on Gale and Reformed Platonism: https://www.midamerica.edu/uploads/files/pdf/journal/08parkjournal2013.pdf

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## davejonescue (Dec 23, 2022)

Tychicus said:


> Here is an interesting paper on Gale and Reformed Platonism: https://www.midamerica.edu/uploads/files/pdf/journal/08parkjournal2013.pdf


Thank you for the heads up. Will try to read tonight when I get off of work. This may just be another gem EEBO-TCP has done the hard work of typing out for us; and it will be even more beneficial to us all once Project Puritas gets ahold of it to clean it up. I wont have time to stop and read it for a while, since I am in the middle of a project, but this is added to the list and the entire set is in EEBO-TCP; so, Lord willing, it will get published sometime soon, at least electronically. Thank you for the link to the paper. God Bless.

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## CathH (Dec 23, 2022)

I've voted yes. I wish there were more Reformed Christians in my own academic field (which wasn't philosophy, but overlapped), and across all the academic disciplines generally. I am uncomfortable about what seems to be a suspicion in some quarters about education and expertise, and an inclination to retreat from the public arena in case some wokeism might be encountered. Young Christians who have intellectual gifts should be encouraged to develop their gifts for the good of their discipline, society and the church.

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## Ulster Fry (Dec 23, 2022)

CathH said:


> I've voted yes. I wish there were more Reformed Christians in my own academic field (which wasn't philosophy, but overlapped), and across all the academic disciplines generally. I am uncomfortable about what seems to be a suspicion in some quarters about education and expertise, and an inclination to retreat from the public arena in case some wokeism might be encountered. Young Christians who have intellectual gifts should be encouraged to develop their gifts for the good of their discipline, society and the church.


This would probably be my own view, though I would still caution those interested in studying at a secular university, especially in a subject like philosophy which tackles the very foundation of our knowledge and beliefs, that they need to be bold and robust as they’ll be under constant attack. My own attempt to deal with this is to go on the attack against naturalism, but it certainly isn’t easy.


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## CathH (Dec 23, 2022)

Ulster Fry said:


> This would probably be my own view, though I would still caution those interested in studying at a secular university, especially in a subject like philosophy which tackles the very foundation of our knowledge and beliefs, that they need to be bold and robust as they’ll be under constant attack. My own attempt to deal with this is to go on the attack against naturalism, but it certainly isn’t easy.


Yes, although up to a point you can't really know what you're being robust against until you understand it? The humility of being willing to learn (from people who are simultaneously more unscriptural and more clever than you) must go hand in hand with that boldness.


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## ZackF (Dec 23, 2022)

Philosophy is an ancient discipline. It has been blessed by Christianity. The obvious answer to the OP is yes! There should be more Reformed philosophers. 

One can caveat the answer to oblivion with hazards along the way including finding gainful employment. I will say the internet gives many amateurs and philosophy-adjacent professionals (historians, theologians) opportunities to play at home with philosophy and contribute meaningfully.

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## davejonescue (Dec 23, 2022)

CathH said:


> I've voted yes. I wish there were more Reformed Christians in my own academic field (which wasn't philosophy, but overlapped), and across all the academic disciplines generally. I am uncomfortable about what seems to be a suspicion in some quarters about education and expertise, and an inclination to retreat from the public arena in case some wokeism might be encountered. Young Christians who have intellectual gifts should be encouraged to develop their gifts for the good of their discipline, society and the church.


Could it also be a measure between time invested/and time potentially lost? What I mean is, I could study for 10 years and get a Ph.D in Social Work. Yet, at any given time the law could mandate that I either call transsexuals by their figment gender, or lose licensure. This is a very real threat among many career choices; education, healthcare, social sciences, etc. I think many youth want to go head on into these fields to expand the kingdom; but many also do not want to be bad stewards of precious time when the writing is on the wall; thinking they will be the singular effort that is going to change it. The cost of education is enormous; and already only about 3 out of 10 people work in jobs related to their majors. I don't think they are retreating, but investing wisely. Many of these people will not receive tuition assistance or church support like pastoral candidates going to seminary, say, if they wanted to go into Social Work, Education, Engineering, Tech, or Entrepreneurship, etc. .

At what point is society so woke, and the possibility of having to compromise our faith so sure, that we simply find something else that will not tempt us to shy from our stance to save our careers or investments, or hang our heads low and mutter "well, my kids have to eat," as we get in the car every day convicted? I believe we should applaud them for having the foresight to avoid compromise instead of the potential delusion of conquering a country God has seemed to presently passed judgment on.


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## Jack K (Dec 24, 2022)

I think many believers see philosophers as people who take difficult ideas and learn to present them in ways that turn them utterly incomprehensible to the average person. But if you can be a philosopher who presents difficult ideas in a way that makes them understandable, believers would appreciate that.

And certainly, it's good to have believers who are experts in all the classical academic fields, philosophy included.

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## pylgrym (Dec 24, 2022)

I voted "no" after googling around, finding that Hillsdale College has a Roman Catholic








Nathan Schlueter


Dr. Nathan Schlueter is Professor of Philosophy and Religion at Hillsdale College.




www.hillsdale.edu




and reading 
1 Corinthians 1:20​“Where _is_ the wise? where _is_ the scribe? where _is_ the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?”

Lord, give us more sound theologians.


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## Ulster Fry (Dec 24, 2022)

CathH said:


> Yes, although up to a point you can't really know what you're being robust against until you understand it? The humility of being willing to learn (from people who are simultaneously more unscriptural and more clever than you) must go hand in hand with that boldness.


I agree, but then isn’t this partly why we want more Reformed people already in these fields? It’s less intimidating to know there are already solid answers provided by people who have dealt with these problems already. I find it frustrating that I have to turn to mostly non-Reformed sources constantly for these answers as there aren’t many options.

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## Ulster Fry (Dec 24, 2022)

pylgrym said:


> I voted "no" after googling around, finding that Hillsdale College has a Roman Catholic
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I’m sorry, but I don’t understand this logic at all and it seems unnecessarily sectarian. You voted no because there is a college that hires a Roman Catholic philosopher? Is it a college that claims to be Reformed or something?

And why wouldn’t that lead you to want more Reformed philosophers who could fill that gap, if you really don’t want Roman Catholics involved? Part of my annoyance is that it mostly is Roman Catholics and those outside my own tradition doing this sort of work.

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## ZackF (Dec 24, 2022)

I think we must note that there are not many of us. If we take the Bible (and Reformation) seriously, there probably isn't a field, from cosmetology to cosmology, where we wouldn't want more Reformed individuals.


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## CathH (Dec 24, 2022)

davejonescue said:


> Could it also be a measure between time invested/and time potentially lost? What I mean is, I could study for 10 years and get a Ph.D in Social Work. Yet, at any given time the law could mandate that I either call transsexuals by their figment gender, or lose licensure. This is a very real threat among many career choices; education, healthcare, social sciences, etc. I think many youth want to go head on into these fields to expand the kingdom; but many also do not want to be bad stewards of precious time when the writing is on the wall; thinking they will be the singular effort that is going to change it. The cost of education is enormous; and already only about 3 out of 10 people work in jobs related to their majors. I don't think they are retreating, but investing wisely. Many of these people will not receive tuition assistance or church support like pastoral candidates going to seminary, say, if they wanted to go into Social Work, Education, Engineering, Tech, or Entrepreneurship, etc. .
> 
> At what point is society so woke, and the possibility of having to compromise our faith so sure, that we simply find something else that will not tempt us to shy from our stance to save our careers or investments, or hang our heads low and mutter "well, my kids have to eat," as we get in the car every day convicted? I believe we should applaud them for having the foresight to avoid compromise instead of the potential delusion of conquering a country God has seemed to presently passed judgment on.


Wokeism is today's bogeyman. When I was applying for university it was probably something like "evolution". There isn't going to be a time when there isn't something unscriptural to be encountered in society or education or academia. Not everyone is cut out to study for a profession, and not everyone is cut out to do a PhD, but when people have the relevant gifts and opportunities, they should use these. The risk of compromising our faith is not at all restricted to those whose jobs require a professional qualification.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 24, 2022)

Whenever people tell me ‘we don’t need no philosophy. Just give us the bahble’, I ask them what does ‘substance’ mean, since God has one of those. The results are often amusing.

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## ZackF (Dec 24, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> Whenever people tell me ‘we don’t need no philosophy. Just give us the bahble’, I ask them what does ‘substance’ mean, since God has one of those. The results are often amusing.


The endeavor to define a single term is philosophical.

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## Ulster Fry (Dec 24, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> Whenever people tell me ‘we don’t need no philosophy. Just give us the bahble’, I ask them what does ‘substance’ mean, since God has one of those. The results are often amusing.


You certainly don't find much substance in their response, I'm sure.

It is amusing, but it's also discouraging, and I think that's why I agree with a lot that Cath is saying about the dangers of an anti-intellectual attitude in the church. It's a shame when people who are going into academia, which is often hostile to the Christian faith, don't receive support from their own. I can't see how withdrawing ourselves is the right option.

I'm also curious to hear your own proposal, as you seem to believe that universities are not the place for this to happen nowadays. Where and how should this sort of work be done if not through the universities? More Christian colleges? There's a lot less of those here in the UK.

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## VictorBravo (Dec 24, 2022)

Ulster Fry said:


> It's a shame when people who are going into academia, which is often hostile to the Christian faith, don't receive support from their own. I can't see how withdrawing ourselves is the right option.


You take your salt where you go. I was pleasantly surprised that a jurisprudence class at the University of Washington School of Law (liberal, if you didn't know) was using Calvin's _Institutes_ as one of the primary texts for historical legal thought.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 24, 2022)

I have a question. I know I am getting up in age but has not the Church usually had teachers of Philosophy that were Reformed? I am not negating the need for the same in this time but.....?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 24, 2022)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I have a question. I know I am getting up in age but has not the Church usually had teachers of Philosophy that were Reformed? I am not negating the need for the same in this time but.....?



James McCosh is one example of an ordained minister who became a professor of philosophy at a university. Most of the Irish Presbyterian ministers were well-trained in ancient and modern philosophy at either the University of Glasgow or (later) the Belfast Academical Institution.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 24, 2022)

What about Gordon Clark or Van Til? What about Bahnsan or however you spell his name? LOL What about the Schaeffer's? What about R. C. Sproul?


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 24, 2022)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> What about Gordon Clark or Van Til?



I regard them as philosophers, just not very good ones.   ... Now runs for cover. 



PuritanCovenanter said:


> What about Bahnsan or however you spell his name? LOL



He, as with John Frame, was well-read in the history of philosophy. I have never read this PhD thesis, which might be useful. 



PuritanCovenanter said:


> What about the Schaeffer's?



Francis Schaeffer was more of a popular writer than an academic one.



PuritanCovenanter said:


> What about R. C. Sproul?



I would count him as one owing to his contribution to _Classical Apologetics_. Again, he was very widely read in the history of philosophy. I should get around to reading his book, _The Consequences of Ideas_.

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## Taylor (Dec 24, 2022)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I regard them as philosophers...


I'll take it. I've heard William Lane Craig say over and over again—with a fair amount of smugness, as I perceive it—say, "Cornelius Van Til was not a philosopher." Balderdash.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 24, 2022)

I think Bavinck might fit in the category also.


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## davejonescue (Dec 24, 2022)

CathH said:


> Wokeism is today's bogeyman. When I was applying for university it was probably something like "evolution". There isn't going to be a time when there isn't something unscriptural to be encountered in society or education or academia. Not everyone is cut out to study for a profession, and not everyone is cut out to do a PhD, but when people have the relevant gifts and opportunities, they should use these. The risk of compromising our faith is not at all restricted to those whose jobs require a professional qualification.


There is no question there is the risk of compromise in every profession; the question is cost vs potential loss. While some can deny the reality of a "woke" society; the truth is some fields are extremely more liberal, and given to such tendencies than others.


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## VictorBravo (Dec 25, 2022)

davejonescue said:


> There is no question there is the risk of compromise in every profession; the question is cost vs potential loss. While some can deny the reality of a "woke" society; the truth is some fields are extremely more liberal, and given to such tendencies than others.


I'll throw out something similar to what I've said before: it is how you define cost and benefit.

If one is looking at a PhD in philosophy as a money making option, the probability of it being beneficial vs the cost of doing it is very low. But if one has a burning calling to pursue philosophy, then one will do it.

Of course, it is best not to spend foolish sums to pursue such a course. But, one way or another, if one is called to pursue it, then one might as well get on with it.

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## Charles Johnson (Dec 25, 2022)

Julián Marías's History of Philosophy is a good text, but he's a Roman Catholic. I'd rather read a good work on philosophy by a Roman Catholic than a bad one by a Reformed guy.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 25, 2022)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> What about Gordon Clark or Van Til? What about Bahnsan or however you spell his name? LOL What about the Schaeffer's? What about R. C. Sproul?



Clark was a great communicator but he had some truly bizarre ideas.

I'm not getting into the Van Til debate. Van Til had some interesting surveys of philosophical history, but....I'm just going to leave it there.

Bahnsen's surveys are fairly standard (since he used WT Jones's works). Take them for what they are worth. As to being a Reformed philosopher, he marginalized himself and his influence was fairly limited.

Schaeffer plagiarized much of Van Til and Rushdoony. He was pretty good with modern art and hippies. His survey of philosophy is factually wrong on so many counts.

Sproul was pretty good, actually. Now let's apply his philosophy to apologetics.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 25, 2022)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> I think Bavinck might fit in the category also.



His Prolegomena is good. The only drawback to Bavinck is he often relied on secondary sources which weren't always accurate.

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## retroGRAD3 (Dec 25, 2022)

I voted perhaps. I think it is essential we define our terms with precision and can talk about them intelligently. However, I do think there are far greater needs elsewhere in the church at this time, but maybe philosophy can aid in those needs as long as it is under scripture. The needs I speak about are things like most people calling themselves protestant have no idea what that means and realistically could switch to being a morman and they wouldn't think it makes any difference. When people think Beth Moore is a great theologian and don't even know who Francis Turretin is. Many churches are cancelling their services today. Then, if we want to make the circle smaller, most of those who call themselves reformed are celebrating Christmas today and are having a special Christmas service. I am taking about churches in the OPC and other conservative denominations, not the PCUSA. And not only that, but getting people to regularly show up on any Sunday is a chore and people don't even know what the RPW is. Philosophy can be good, but the need right now is for faithful pastors to shepherd their flock and teach them biblical Christianity. To make them understand why worship on Sunday needs to take priority and that the worship that takes place is done as God commands. If the only place where good theology exists is in the university's and not in the church then we have a big problem.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 25, 2022)

Even though I believe James KA Smith has apostasized on biblical ethics, this is a pretty good series on what someone is up against.





So you want to go to grad school – James K. A. Smith







jameskasmith.com


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