# Should visitors give an offering?



## Jack K (Jun 14, 2011)

The scenario: You're out of town and visiting another church to worship with them. It's a good church you believe is faithful to Christ. As part of the worship service, they pass an offering plate/basket.

The question: Do you usually give an offering in such a situation? Should visitors generally do so? Why or why not?

My wife and I found ourselves in this situation last Sunday and, to my surprise, we did not agree on the answer.


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## Romans922 (Jun 14, 2011)

Scripture is clear, "Do not withhold good from those to whom it is due, when it is in your power to do it." "You shall not muzzle an ox when it treads out the grain." "The laborer deserves his wages."


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## Scott1 (Jun 14, 2011)

Biblically, in recognition of the church universal, the same applies whether at home or visiting.

We try to always set aside as part of a travel budget, money for extra tithe (on top of home church giving) when we visit another church. 

Such is a privilege and delight, likely also an encouragement.


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## Herald (Jun 14, 2011)

Should? I think it is a good thing to do. Required? No.


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## he beholds (Jun 14, 2011)

I really don't think there's a "should" here (sorry, Josh, beat you to it!). I think you are free to, but I don't think we are paying the pastor for a good sermon, so it's 
reasonable to tithe at your own church instead, or possibly in addition to.


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## Romans922 (Jun 14, 2011)

Scott, I'd challenge you to think through whether we are to give a "tithe" or not: http://www.tdgordon.net/theology/tithe.doc


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## J. Dean (Jun 14, 2011)

I'd say an offering rather than a tithe.


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## Scott1 (Jun 14, 2011)

Yes,
"tithe" used advisedly.

The civil law given Israel had several tithes that were binding under the Old Testament as a standard; now it is based on a principle of "first fruits" giving in the New Testament, as a testimony of God's ownership over everything, and not under the specifics of the Levitical system.

(But it's a word people understand what is meant, and carries the punch of conviction to all those who are not, but should be doing it as an ordinary discipline of the Christian life, looking to exceed it, and be generous with it, wherever they go) 

---------- Post added at 02:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:32 PM ----------

The term is used in the Westminster Directory of Public Worship, so as long as we understand how it is being used, I don't think we need to be afraid of using the term:



> Westminster Directory of Publick Worship
> 
> a. From ancient times tithes and offerings have been made to
> and received by God.132 They are a part of the ordinary worship
> ...


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## Berean (Jun 14, 2011)

Not required, but you're using their building in which to worship. You're also using their heat, air conditioning, lights, furniture, etc. A modest offering would be the decent and appreciative thing to do. It's not like the money is going to one of the liberal mainstream denominations.


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## but3leftsdo (Jun 14, 2011)

I always have given an offering in this situation, unless they were blatantly teaching heresy.


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## Edward (Jun 14, 2011)

I'll usually drop a nominal amount in the plate - no more than $20 if cash, sometimes a bit more if a check. In my case, it's more of a tradition than a thought-through position.


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## Scottish Lass (Jun 14, 2011)

I give an offering (on top of what we tithe at our "regular" church).


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## Esther W. (Jun 14, 2011)

I believe as a Christian that the offering is a part of worship. It is not something separate to be mathematically figured into my budget- so yes, participating in the worship of God, no matter where I did so, I would give an offering.


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## Pergamum (Jun 14, 2011)

I just visited a church (we were travelling) and it seemed as if they were partially preaching health and wealth doctrines, so I withheld any offering to them.


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## Scott1 (Jun 15, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> I just visited a church (we were travelling) and it seemed as if they were partially preaching health and wealth doctrines, so I withheld any offering to them.



Advance research can help in finding a biblical reformed church. But, if one finds that is not the case, withhold (then double up at the next biblical, reformed one you visit).


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## Jack K (Jun 15, 2011)

Here's the rest of my story. My thinking last Sunday was not to give to the church we were visiting. My reasoning was as follows:

As a visitor I was a guest. It's appropriate to graciously allow the host congregation to treat me as a guest, not as a paying customer. My financial responsibility is to my home church, and I meet it regardless of whether or not I attend the service there on a given week. In the church we don't take a pay-for-services-rendered attitude, as if we need to put something in the plate each time someone gives us a sermon or plays music for us, like we were buying a movie ticket. Rather, we should give generously to support the whole of the church's ministries without really noticing what we're getting out of it. The idea of giving as a visitor suggests a pay-for-services attitude, which I don't like.

Such is my thinking. But... it's not quite that simple. At my home church, most of my giving is done for convenience's sake and tax reasons by electronic transfer. But I also bring a small amount of cash with me each Sunday because I recognize that giving an offering is a part of the worship service event. I usually have my kids put the cash in the offering basket on behalf of our family.

Well last Sunday, because we were visitors, I didn't supply the kids with any cash. But when the offering basket came around, my wife took action and pulled out a far larger than usual amount of cash, which we gave. I have no problem with her generosity (it's a great trait!), and wonder if her thinking may have been better than mine. The church we were visiting (a well-known Reformed congregation in Sanford, Florida) did a particularly good job of incorporating the offering into the hear-and-respond rhythm of the worship service. Indeed, our participation in that worship service would have seemed incomplete had we not, as a part of it, given an offering to God.

Have you further thoughts?


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## Esther W. (Jun 15, 2011)

My further thoughts are - well done good and faithful servant!

I think it is wrong, though I understand how some reach their conclusions, to withhold an offering. If we believe that all we have is God's and that an offering is indeed a part of worship, then to withhold if we have something to give, is in error. If a church is heretical then we should get up and leave- if it is not, then we should participate in the full worship of our God-.


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## he beholds (Jun 15, 2011)

We don't give each week at my own church. We usually give bigger chunks monthly. So do you think I am not fully worshipping God during the weeks we don't give? That is interesting. As far as giving to churches you are visiting, I hate to sound pragmatic, but I like knowing the various ministries that will be supported with our gift. You would not likely know that as a visitor. 
And I really have many, many faults, but stinginess isn't one of my biggest, so I don't think this is me being stingy--in case someone were to make an argument against that.


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## SRoper (Jun 15, 2011)

I have never given when visiting. The churches I have been to have always insisted that visitors not give anything. I thought that was pretty standard.


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## au5t1n (Jun 15, 2011)

he beholds said:


> We don't give each week at my own church. We usually give bigger chunks monthly. So do you think I am not fully worshipping God during the weeks we don't give? That is interesting.



I was wondering the same thing. I'm not familiar with the practice of giving every week. I do it about monthly as well. We don't pass a plate; there's a box. I wouldn't feel obligated to give if I visited a church just once while travelling or something, though I might choose to do so anyway.


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## Scott1 (Jun 15, 2011)

> *Jack K*
> As a visitor I was a guest. It's appropriate to graciously allow the host congregation to treat me as a guest, not as a paying customer. My financial responsibility is to my home church, and I meet it regardless of whether or not I attend the service there on a given week. In the church we don't take a pay-for-services-rendered attitude, as if we need to put something in the plate each time someone gives us a sermon or plays music for us, like we were buying a movie ticket. Rather, we should give generously to support the whole of the church's ministries without really noticing what we're getting out of it. The idea of giving as a visitor suggests a pay-for-services attitude, which I don't like.



Don't think like this.

God loves a cheerful giver.

There's nothing wrong with giving something when you are a "guest." (Not only money, but other things also)

One is not giving to the church for services, one is giving to God,

Or one is not rightly understanding what is happening.

Recently, we visited a church while traveling and after introducing myself, offered to help take down the chairs as the service was held in a university auditorium (they have to do this right after every service). The elder originally said, "no, don't bother," but was appreciative. Later, it opened fellowship in several directions.

In addition, we put money in, and greeted people who appeared to be new there (as at home). I'm not in any way saying this to call attention to myself, only that such behavior (welcoming, hospitality, sharing the load, contributing in every way possible) is part of what ought characterize the believer- anywhere they go.

But, ***especially*** in the household of faith!



> 2 Corinthians 9:7
> Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.





> 2 Corinthians 9:6
> 
> King James Version
> 
> 6But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.





> Colossians 3:23
> And whatsoever ye do, do it heartily, as to the Lord, and not unto men;


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## SolaScriptura (Jun 15, 2011)

he beholds said:


> We don't give each week at my own church. We usually give bigger chunks monthly. So do you think I am not fully worshipping God during the weeks we don't give? That is interesting. As far as giving to churches you are visiting, I hate to sound pragmatic, but I like knowing the various ministries that will be supported with our gift. You would not likely know that as a visitor.
> And I really have many, many faults, but stinginess isn't one of my biggest, so I don't think this is me being stingy--in case someone were to make an argument against that.



I don't think you're being stingy. I don't know about you, but I'm paid once a month. So I drop a check in the offering plate once a month.


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## Scottish Lass (Jun 15, 2011)

SolaScriptura said:


> I don't think you're being stingy. I don't know about you, but I'm paid once a month. So I drop a check in the offering plate once a month.



Same here. Tim is paid monthly, I'm paid quarterly; we tithe when we're paid.


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## earl40 (Jun 15, 2011)

My mom saw a person put in a 20 and take out a 10 one time. Must have been a visitor.


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## au5t1n (Jun 15, 2011)

Scottish Lass said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think you're being stingy. I don't know about you, but I'm paid once a month. So I drop a check in the offering plate once a month.
> ...



I'm paid a large scholarship sum twice a year, and give at the same time. For a few months I've also had a small biweekly income to offer from, but before that I always gave about twice a year.


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## dudley (Jun 15, 2011)

I was in NYC and attended services at the First Prebyterian Church of the City of New York on Easter Sunday I made a small contribution at the service and then made my regular offering when I returned to the First Presbyterian Church I regularly attend and am a member of at home the following Sunday. 

1 Corinthians 16:2
New King James Version (NKJV)

2 On the first day of the week let each one of you lay something aside, storing up as he may prosper, that there be no collections when I come.


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## Esther W. (Jun 15, 2011)

he beholds said:


> We don't give each week at my own church. We usually give bigger chunks monthly. So do you think I am not fully worshipping God during the weeks we don't give? That is interesting. As far as giving to churches you are visiting, I hate to sound pragmatic, but I like knowing the various ministries that will be supported with our gift. You would not likely know that as a visitor.
> And I really have many, many faults, but stinginess isn't one of my biggest, so I don't think this is me being stingy--in case someone were to make an argument against that.



I think you are responding to me? I believe that the offering is a part of the regulative principle of worship- So yes, I believe that giving an offering every time I am in worship, is what the scriptures teach. I think that we tend to turn the offering into a mathematical part of our budget and that in doing so we miss the intent. The offering is our opportunity to acknowledge all that we have is God's and that in faith and in love, we offer back to him that which he has commanded. I give as I am able weekly- I do not pay attention to how much or how exact- If I am in a church while on vacation I would behave the same way. 

I have done this since hearing a short sermon series on the matter-


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## Edward (Jun 15, 2011)

> My mom saw a person put in a 20 and take out a 10 one time. Must have been a visitor.



As long as they didn't put in a 10 and take out a 20....


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## py3ak (Jun 15, 2011)

Edward said:


> > My mom saw a person put in a 20 and take out a 10 one time. Must have been a visitor.
> 
> 
> 
> As long as they didn't put in a 10 and take out a 20....



I've known that to happen!


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## Esther W. (Jun 16, 2011)

Andres said:


> Esther W. said:
> 
> 
> > he beholds said:
> ...



The point I have attempted to assert is that our offerings are a part of worship, not separate- Do we give our corporate prayer bi-weekly or once a month? Our hymn singing? Sit under the preaching of the Word every other week? I am not trying to be argumentative, only offering an opinion sought after from the original OP. God does not need our money-it's already his. He does however command us to give an offering in worship- If I am traveling and visit a church-whether reformed or not- so long as the word is preached from a bible believing church- I would offer to God during His worship-in faith. I myself came from a non reformed background. I know God works in the hearts and minds of such believers- The church of Corinth itself was a tad bit off and yet God was alive and at work there. I love my church and am grateful to be able to regularly worship in, and give an offering to, such a God centered reformed body- However, the Church universal, is beloved of God and I am in truth a part of that whole body-not only the theologically Calvinistic one.

g'nite.


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## Scott1 (Jun 16, 2011)

There is a good case to be made for collecting the tithes and offerings (giving) during corporate worship. E.g. it is in the Westminster Directory of Publick Worship (as referenced in an earlier post).

It is not listed as one of the regulative principle attributes of corporate worship, however.



> Westminster Confession of Faith
> 
> Chapter XXI
> Of Religious Worship, and the Sabbath Day
> ...



So we might say the Word, sacraments, prayer, singing spiritual songs, vows, thanksgiving are essential worship.

Again, this is not to say that tithing (giving) is not appropriate for corporate worship.

But a good case can also be made that the incidents of it (e.g. how often, whether done formally during corporate worship, etc.) are not strictly regulated, biblically. Not in the New Testament, anyway.

For example, I know of a fine church that does not pass the plate at all, merely makes a short announcement- and uses the saved time to preach, teach and encourage right hearing of the Word. It also takes away one "stumbling block" to unbelievers (church is only about getting money). Nonsense, yes, but what an unbeliever thinks about this is really nonsense.


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## KevinInReno (Jun 30, 2011)

Another way to look at this is, What was Paul's home church? I'm guessing he didn't see the church in such a narrow view as one specific location. I don't see the body in such a narrow view, so why would you give narrowly? Do I not partake in the Lord's Day not only with my immediate church family, but all my brothers and sisters in Christ worldwide? I believe so. So I don't see the reason for the self imposed mandate of "home" church only.

Also I agree with giving as apart of worship. So why would I exclude one form of worship on certain Lord's Days (when not based on practical reasons such as not having a pay check to give from that week) based on the fact that my "GPS" location might be slightly different that week. The spiritual location is still the same.


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## Scott1 (Jun 30, 2011)

KevinInReno said:


> Another way to look at this is, What was Paul's home church? I'm guessing he didn't see the church in such a narrow view as one specific location. I don't see the body in such a narrow view, so why would you give narrowly? Do I not partake in the Lord's Day not only with my immediate church family, but all my brothers and sisters in Christ worldwide? I believe so. So I don't see the reason for the self imposed mandate of "home" church only.
> 
> Also I agree with giving as apart of worship. So why would I exclude one form of worship on certain Lord's Days (when not based on practical reasons such as not having a pay check to give from that week) based on the fact that my "GPS" location might be slightly different that week. The spiritual location is still the same.



While I understand what you are saying about tithing (giving) when visiting other churches, we might add that there is a principle of supporting "where you are fed," a home church. And everyone ought be accountable to that home church as part of being a 'true' church.

So, the tithe (giving) is to support, in accord with the membership vows (to support that church's by serving in it, praying for people in it, giving tithe to it), that applies.

We do not have quite the same obligation, not by vow, not by practical necessity to the church universal.

But, giving generously- ought characterize the life of the believer, even if he happens to be away from his home church on a particular Lord's Day.


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## KevinInReno (Jun 30, 2011)

The problem I see is, we're not tied to any specific church or temple (woman at the well reference). So giving only to a home church seems to me to be contrary. For example would it be right for me to be under church discipline if I could show I gave fully - but lets say I gave part of my portion to a reformed missional effort?

I have never seen a special collection come with the tacit reminder not to neglect of "Home" church. So if I can give to an OPC church plant in Korea, why can't I give to an OPC Church in Florida?


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## baron (Jun 30, 2011)

Once when visiting a church when it was time for the offering they wouldn't take our money. To us it was an insult. We thought we were maybe sitting in someone pew. Actually we were setting in someone pew seat and the peolpe were not happy with us. They kept making remarks and faces at us. Oh well.


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