# Teens and modern language?



## lynnie (Jul 15, 2012)

Hi- I am interested in hearing what is acceptable in other churches and families here regarding the words kids use today. I am trying to set a standard of acceptable speech with my daughter and her friends, and I feel like that whack a mole game at the arcade. You smack it down and it pops up somewhere else.

I've been discussing using careless words that are too close to curse words. But even I use euphemisms that go way back to my childhood (a euphemism is a generally "harmless" word, name, or phrase that substitutes an offensive or suggestive one). I have said "oh my gosh" for example occasionally.

Some teen girls at church are using the word "hot" to mean well dressed, pretty, and fashionable, as a compliment, but the youth pastor and pastor and wives have agreed that we want it to stop. I hear that word used all the time anymore without any sexual connotation, but we are taking a more conservative route.

We agreed "frickken" or "friggen" is too close to the F word. Kids in the world today seem to use it easily.

So many people say "shoot". Oh shoot. And gee and heck and darn and drat. 

I had a very nice girl from another church here, and she uses the word "banging" as the highest form of praise. A meal was banging, a church service was banging, a party, a gift, somebody's nice outfit. I have to admit I was floored, I am used to that word meaning something else. Is this an east coast thing? I forbid my daughter to say it herself.

We are to have pure speech, so where are you at on euphemisms? I don't want to be nitpicky and legalistic, especially when there may not seem to be any wrong attitudes, or in fact people are trying to be nice. And I admit that over time cultural changes shift meanings, such that maybe nobody thinks of God when saying gosh, or hell saying heck, or the S word saying shoot. But I am wondering about this subject all the same.

Any thoughts? What are your standards for yourself and your children?


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## Tim (Jul 15, 2012)

Lynnie, I think you are right on track. I am 35 and I agree with every single example you have provided. It's not legalistic because scripture addresses this:



> Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks (Eph 5:4)



And I don't think scriptural principles would include the notion that saying a word so often that it loses it's filthy meaning means that it eventually becomes okay to say it.


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## thbslawson (Jul 15, 2012)

I'd say whatever you do, make sure you get at the heart of the matter with your daughter. You want her to understand _why_ this type of speech is unacceptable and not God honoring.


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## JoannaV (Jul 16, 2012)

I was thinking about this a couple of weeks ago, and I was thinking that I want to bring my children up to be aware of what they are saying and the connotations behind what they say. To as much as possible not make it so I'm just censoring certain specific words. Of course I have no practical advice as my son can just about say ummuhmuh.
You and your daughter may have to work on this together: nothing wrong with her seeing you noticing you're saying something careless and correcting yourself. It's very hard to be aware of what you're saying!

There may be some words you decide are inappropriate no matter what your daughter thinks, whilst other times you may give her more leeway if you know her heart is right. At times it is hard to work out what is an ok descriptor and what is just too slangy, and some words do seem to have a different meaning every five years.

Part of this is being careful with what we listen to (watch) and read as well.


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 16, 2012)

lynnie said:


> I had a very nice girl from another church here, and she uses the word "banging" as the highest form of praise. A meal was banging, a church service was banging, a party, a gift, somebody's nice outfit. I have to admit I was floored, I am used to that word meaning something else. Is this an east coast thing? I forbid my daughter to say it herself.


I am probably close to your daughter's age and I have to say that I do not think the usage of the word banging describing something be rad or cool had any etymological connection to when the word is used to describe fornication. The only thing I think I could add to this conversation is that slang needs to to be understood on its own terms. So a word that may sound to a nonuser as close to another may not mean anything like it. So when judging what words are appropriate we need to strive to understand how they are used and what the connotation is. That said, this is a boss thread and I think everyone on the pb are a bunch of gangstas.


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## OPC'n (Jul 16, 2012)

I think if you want to raise your daughter with a certain type of speech it's well within your right as her parent to do so. I do think you should separate between what is Godly (base it on Scripture) and what sounds like "noise pollution" to your ears and let her know which is which. You cannot say that "gosh" is a name for God. He never ascribed that name to Himself and therefore you saying that it's "too close" to his name isn't' doing him a service, and in fact, you are usurping his authority in this area by attributing that word to him as his name. We just are not allowed to do it. If you personally do not like the word "gosh" for one reason or another, then telling your daughter you don't want her to say it because you don't like the word is good enough. I think that goes for any word that isn't deemed "nationally" foul. I know I once used a word here on PB that has no meaning in the usa (i actually thought i made the word up) but come to find out it is a horrible word used overseas. I stopped using it for that reason. If I were a mother and my daughter used a word such as "banging" to describe how good something is, I would have a problem with that. I would tell her why it was wrong. I would tell her that using the word "banging" to tell a story about how someone was banging a nail into a board and then hit his thumb is ok, but using it to describe how good something is has a sexual overtone that everyone is aware of which only leads to ppl's imagination going in the wrong direction which is sinful Scripturally.


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## Miss Marple (Jul 16, 2012)

I am uncertain why you would include her "friends," do you in some way set a standard for them, too?

There are threads on PB that discuss "minced oaths," perhaps you can find them and they would be helpful.


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## crimsonleaf (Jul 16, 2012)

Language is a difficult thing to keep track of and is constantly changing. Most of the sexual swearwords started their lives as wholly acceptable, slowly became taboo and are now coming back into common usage. The word "banging" has been used here in England for some time now and has no sexual connotations whatsoever and is used entirely in the context illustrated in the OP.

I must admit that since becoming a Christian I've found some of my previous language difficult to give up. However, I've become more sensitive to minced oath words like Gosh, Jeez and Heck; probably more sensitive that I am to stronger, non-blasphemous swearwords.


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## Tim (Jul 16, 2012)

OPC'n said:


> You cannot say that "gosh" is a name for God. He never ascribed that name to Himself and therefore you saying that it's "too close" to his name isn't' doing him a service, and in fact, you are usurping his authority in this area by attributing that word to him as his name. We just are not allowed to do it.



It is well established that _gosh_ is a euphemism for God. Even a quick internet search indicated that 10/10 people on Yahoo Answers (of all places on the internet) acknowledged the connection, that gosh is something to say instead of God's name. If one picks this word when they really want to blaspheme, it would seem reasonable to view this as blasphemy. 

It would be like me taking your name, changing it slightly, and then using that word to express disgust. I think you would be offended.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 16, 2012)

PB Moderators edit for minced oaths and euphemisms when we see them. The one in question is most certainly one for "God" whether every particular user understands that or not. Avoid all of them.


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## Mushroom (Jul 16, 2012)

Unoriginalname said:


> I am probably close to your daughter's age and I have to say that I do not think the usage of the word banging describing something be rad or cool had any etymological connection to when the word is used to describe fornication.


Since our sister did not mention that she thought it to be etymologically connected to fornication, how can we accept your assertion that it is not when you yourself came to the conclusion she was refering to that?


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## lynnie (Jul 16, 2012)

Thank you for the replies. I just looked up Holy Cow out of curiosity and wiki says it is a minced oath for Holy Christ.

Eric, I see you are in Philly. The girl who uses banging as a high compliment lived in Philly for years before moving to NJ. I am glad you weighed in. The first time it happened you could have picked me up off the floor. I do think it does serve people though, to let them know how it comes off in your own circles ( mine are like Brads).

I think I am going to try to move in the direction of more careful speech.....like the verse Tim posted, some of it seems foolish to me. 

And yeah, with her friends, I set the standard here in my house and car. I am not willing to have two standards here. One word I caught in the past is describing a certain sort of female as a Bee, letter B. I can be sympathetic when the female in question is bossy and nasty, but "B" is not OK, I know what it stands for and it is not for bossy. The friends are from good homes and respond well; they all seem to just pick this stuff up all the time and don't even know what they are saying. I do it too, I want to stop. 

Thanks for the tip on "minced oaths".


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## OPC'n (Jul 16, 2012)

Tim said:


> OPC'n said:
> 
> 
> > You cannot say that "gosh" is a name for God. He never ascribed that name to Himself and therefore you saying that it's "too close" to his name isn't' doing him a service, and in fact, you are usurping his authority in this area by attributing that word to him as his name. We just are not allowed to do it.
> ...




If you took my name and changed it even slightly and then said something disgusting about the name you made up, it wouldn't bother me bc it's not my name. If, however, you said that you were going to call me that name and others agreed to call me that name and think of me when someone said it.....the fact that anyone would think they could assign a name to me that's not my name would offend me. But I'm done with this one since it's a PB rule not to use words that sort of sound like God's names. (My OPC Pastor supports me on this view I'm not just making stuff up).


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## Miss Marple (Jul 16, 2012)

The problem with "minced oaths," as you may have found when searching, is that there are a great variety of opinions about them. In my opinion, there is a tendency towards pietism in this area. Others will disagree!

You as parents get to set the appropriate language for your home/children. "Minced oaths" or whatever, that's up to you. I put "minced oaths" in quotes because I find the term, although I sometimes use it for shorthand purposes, a misnomer.

For example, the statement about "holy cow." I am 48, well read, and that's the first I've heard of it. I thought it was a bit of a lampoon on Hindu veneration of cows. Actually I still think that. 

Anyone can make a case for anything to be a minced oath, honestly. Thus we have people (some of whom have spoken to me earnestly) that actually and in fact use no interjections at all. If they do, they feel guilty. They believe I should not use any interjections, either.

I was once counseled, by an ordained man, that I should use no interjections that begin with the same consonant sounds as a "bad" word, or that rhyme with a bad word.

After the conversation, I sat down and made a mental assessment and came to the conclusion that there were, in fact, no common interjections I could use that fit his category. I could make some up; but, then I could be accused of replacing one thing with another (which in fact I would be doing).

I've also been told, by another ordained man, that I should not use attributes of God to describe anything else. As I sat and thought about that one, I realized I could not under these rules say "What a good story" (only God is good), "I had a wonderful day" (only God is wonderful), "That was an amazing event" (only God is amazing), etc.

We are to guard our tongues, and of course not use God's name in vain, nor use coarse or vulgar language (and the challenge there is that language is always changing), but the extremes I have read of get to a point of what seems to be hysteria at times, a type of etomylogical fundamentalism if you will, and I find it disturbing. There are so many sins to fight. Is saying, "Well, (insert minced oath), we're late for the movie" one of them? 

Also, consider those who are trying hard not to swear, and so replace the seven dirty words you supposedly can't say on television with other words, in an attempt to clean up their act. How discouraging to be told that apparently no matter what they choose, it isn't clean enough. 

I'd enjoy a list of approved interjections, seriously, to try to understand the rationale behind them. We may find that those we approve meet with others' disapproval, for various reasons.


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## BlackCalvinist (Jul 16, 2012)

Some words, you have good concern. Others, you _are_ being moderately legalistic. The objective should not be the words themselves, but the intention behind the words. Slang words change meaning all the time.... dope (which can be a synonym for bangin' or a synonym for idiot or a euphemism for being drugged) so if its' not word word this week, it will be another next week. Likewise, in a kennel in England, the B word is quite acceptable for talking about a female dog - not so much in the U.S.

Banging, by the way, means superlatively excellent (in the context your daughter is using it). Teach your daughter to discern between intention of words and their meanings (this will eliminate the use of 'gosh' and 'darn' and other substitute curse words) rather than simply saying 'not this word'. Saying 'not this word' without attacking the root of the issue (the intention and meanings of the words) will leave you with a 'list'.....a legalist. And your daughter may simply find another word that's not on the list, while claiming to adhere to the list.


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 16, 2012)

Brad said:


> Since our sister did not mention that she thought it to be etymologically connected to fornication, how can we accept your assertion that it is not when you yourself came to the conclusion she was refering to that?


I assumed since the word is used in both ways in Philadelphia/New Jersey slang and our sister was initially offended by the word. I figured if the only usage other usage of banging that she thought of was banging your knee or banging your head, it would not be offensive.


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jul 16, 2012)

BlackCalvinist said:


> The objective should not be the words themselves, but the intention behind the words.



Well said.



> *Hebrews 4:12*
> For the word of God is living and active, sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing to the division of soul and of spirit, of joints and of marrow, and* discerning the thoughts and intentions **of the heart.*


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## arapahoepark (Jul 16, 2012)

As part of this new generation, I would still agree with what is said above. I have heard a few of those words and I don't agree with them. I sometimes talk like a surfer and use words like cool, chill, rad, wicked, sick,....and that's as far as I'll go to say that something is cool. As for coming up with other words that have that bizarre and negative connotation, I do not agree with it and they shouldn't be used especially in front of the older generation lest they are offended by such behavior which they have every right to.


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## Andres (Jul 16, 2012)

Tim said:


> It is well established that gosh is a euphemism for God. Even a quick internet search indicated that 10/10 people on Yahoo Answers (of all places on the internet) acknowledged the connection, that gosh is something to say instead of God's name. If one picks this word when they really want to blaspheme, it would seem reasonable to view this as blasphemy.



I agree with Tim here and I will not allow my son to say "gosh" or "Oh, my goodness" or any other derivitve for I consider it to be a violation of the third commandment. 

As for the other slang words, I think my issue with them is they sound completely ignorant more than anything else. I hope my son grows up with a better vocabularly and is well-spoken enough, even at an early age, to not walk around saying things are "banging" or "gangster".


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## moral necessity (Jul 16, 2012)

lynnie said:


> Hi- I am interested in hearing what is acceptable in other churches and families here regarding the words kids use today. I am trying to set a standard of acceptable speech with my daughter and her friends, and I feel like that whack a mole game at the arcade. You smack it down and it pops up somewhere else.
> 
> I've been discussing using careless words that are too close to curse words. But even I use euphemisms that go way back to my childhood (a euphemism is a generally "harmless" word, name, or phrase that substitutes an offensive or suggestive one). I have said "oh my gosh" for example occasionally.
> 
> ...



I would not allow the words that are borderline swear words, like "frig***", even for her friends who came to visit. Slang words my kids might learn, like "banging", I might become sarcastic at, and interpret it literally with a response. Sometimes I'll play with it, and pick at their sentence until they say exactly what they mean. I want them to think and be able to use proper language when communicating to others. 

Most importantly, I want to make them become sensitive to those they will be talking to, and be able to conform their words to match the level of communication that others are used to. They need to be made aware of the elders and the adults who are around them, and raise their level of communication to equal that of their audience. It's a courtousy to speak adult-like when around adults, and to be sensititive to elderly when talking around them. I find it rude and inconsiderate when kids bring their street language into the home and public places. It displays a lack of courtousy and regard for others, in my opinion.

Reactions: Like 1


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## lynnie (Jul 16, 2012)

Thanks so much for all the thoughtful replies. Very helpful.

I have two teen friends back now, they were all VBS helpers this morning. We talked. They all agree about friggen and frakken and texting Oh, my goodness and OMGosh and dang it and heck. But can they say "oh snap" when something bad happens. I said I guess so, but why can't they say "thank you Lord"? Isn't that a more godly response to trouble? Or "help me Lord"? They can't seem to wrap their minds around it, and the bottom line is, when annoying things happen they want to express being annoyed. I think they did at least get that point even if the flesh isn't ready to break yet and wants the freedom to be openly annoyed. 

One girl wanted to know why my shirt has buttons. Huh? It is a modest high neckline with a few inches of decorative buttons at the top. Did I know buttons mean easy access? I said "are you kidding?" She says no, buttons means you are easily available. Is that why they all wear knits with no buttons, and open shrugs or zipper hoodies? Whew. What a day. I have a lot to learn  


Thanks again.


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## Miss Marple (Jul 16, 2012)

"Huh? It is a modest high neckline with a few inches of decorative buttons at the top. Did I know buttons mean easy access? I said "are you kidding?" She says no, buttons means you are easily available. Is that why they all wear knits with no buttons, and open shrugs or zipper hoodies? Whew. What a day. I have a lot to learn"

This goes to the point I was trying to make about minced oaths. No, you are not being immodest. She may be seeing immodesty, but that doesn't mean you are being immodest.


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## TylerRay (Jul 16, 2012)

This thread from last month might be helpful:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/exclamations-christian-74871/


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## Edward (Jul 16, 2012)

Miss Marple said:


> I am 48, well read, and that's the first I've heard of it. I thought it was a bit of a lampoon on Hindu veneration of cows. Actually I still think that.



That had always been my understanding, as well. But I dug out my 1987 copy of "Slang Dictionary" and it supports the proposition that this is a minced oath. 

So my horizons have been broadened this evening. Groovy.


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## Miss Marple (Jul 16, 2012)

lynnie said:


> Thanks so much for all the thoughtful replies. Very helpful.
> 
> I have two teen friends back now, they were all VBS helpers this morning. We talked. They all agree about friggen and frakken and texting Oh, my goodness and OMGosh and dang it and heck. But can they say "oh snap" when something bad happens. I said I guess so, but why can't they say "thank you Lord"? Isn't that a more godly response to trouble? Or "help me Lord"? They can't seem to wrap their minds around it, and the bottom line is, when annoying things happen they want to express being annoyed. I think they did at least get that point even if the flesh isn't ready to break yet and wants the freedom to be openly annoyed.



Oh, this paragraph has been circling my mind for hours. I feel compelled to respond to it. I hope I am not being too bossy. But I have a heart for kids who are trying to serve.

I wish you would not call them out for saying "Oh, snap." Or similar. Perhaps this was more of a conversation and less of a reprimand. I hope so. 

Firstly, there is great debate by good men on many sides who would disagree as to the sinfulness of such an expression. Obviously I think it is not in the least bit sinful - but since it is NOT a matter of church discipline - I can't imagine teens being taken before the session accused of saying "oh, snap," I think it is wrong to criticize them for it. Unless, perhaps, they ask your opinion. Then, I'd give it gently.

To pick at people, particularly young people, over our personal perspective on sin, is to bind others' consciences in ways that we are not allowed. I have heard of kids at a youth group criticized for: going to see "Robin Hood" the movie; listening to secular music; wearing a Batman logo t-shirt; wearing a one piece swim suit without a t shirt over it; going to a youth rally on a Sunday; and talking to boys - to name a few examples.

These girls are volunteering to serve at VBS. Why not pick out things that are good and lovely about them and praise them for these things, instead? 

Consider that these girls may have a father or mother who says "oh, snap!" (or "worse." They may say other words labelled as minced oaths). What are you communicating to them? That their parents are living in unrepentant sin? Is that helpful to lay upon a young Christian? Or harmful?

Must they say "help me Lord?" or "thank you Lord" when they drop a muffin or find the napkins? Can that not be considered frivolous or irreverent? It could be argued so. Myself I think we really must grant each other the Christian liberty to control our own mouths, until we reach a point where we are clearly contradicting God's commandments. Further, when it comes to minors, we must respect that fact that the parents set the standards for these things, up to the clear contradictions of God's commandments. My husband does not, for example, allow our kids to say "shut up." But, I have never corrected another person's child for saying that. It is not my place.

If these young Christians are given the impression that they are not good enough or holy enough to serve, they are spiritually discouraged. That is the road to provoking unto wrath - when a person feels they just can't be good enough to pass muster. This is not where we want to drive our young people, whether young in years or young in the Lord. 

I hope this post is taken in the spirit in which it is given. I have seen some mighty discouragement in my time, and the older I get the more dangerous I perceive it to be.


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## lynnie (Jul 17, 2012)

Miss Marple, thank you for the concern. We were talking at home, and it was a discussion all around. 

If you knew this group you'd know that a big problem they have is being annoyed. This person is annoying and that one, and this thing and that thing, and many things that are part of life in school, home, church. They will say their parents are annoying. Not just trials are annoying, its more like a youthful arrogance about anything that does not suit them. Not all the time, but too much. And they want to be able to express how annoying things are. 

That was what I was trying to address yesterday. I mean, you could say a minced oath because something just happened that was a shock and took you by surprise and is crushing or very hard to deal with. Or you can be a modern American who deserves to have your way today and anything that does not go your way is annoying, and minced oaths are more of a whiney thing. And changing frikken to something else while still being sort of contemptuously annoyed is not OK with me. So that is why we are talking about it.

As far as other kids, we nicely tell them our standards in our home for speech, computers, TV, bathing suits in our pool, no matter what they do in their own home. We just say that these are our rules in our house. Actually the main counsel I got when my older kids were growing up was not to allow two standards in your home, it is not fair to your own kids. One standard for all. It has not hurt kids wanting to hang out here, if anything the opposite. 

But I do take your concerns seriously. I have known the girls for a long time and we get along well, and yesterday was one snapshot frame in a long video, and I am still thinking it all through. Not sure exactly where I will end up, but it'll be on a stricter mouth side than what was happening.


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## nicnap (Jul 17, 2012)

Lynnie,

Some time ago, Andew Myers started this very helpful thread:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/minced-oaths-18742/


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## jwright82 (Jul 17, 2012)

Miss Marple said:


> "Huh? It is a modest high neckline with a few inches of decorative buttons at the top. Did I know buttons mean easy access? I said "are you kidding?" She says no, buttons means you are easily available. Is that why they all wear knits with no buttons, and open shrugs or zipper hoodies? Whew. What a day. I have a lot to learn"



Does this mean I need to stop wearing button up shirts to Church lest I send the wrong message? 

Seriously though I think your daughter and her friends ought to be commended for sacrificing their Christian liberty, surely buttons on a shirt fall into this category, in the name of purity. It also goes to show what a great mother and role model you are keep up the good work lynnie.


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## Bill The Baptist (Jul 17, 2012)

Let us remember what Jesus taught in the Sermon on the Mount. It is not just our actions, but our intentions as well that constitute sin. Even if we substitute a different word, such as "gosh", if our intention is just the same, then we are still sinning.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Jul 17, 2012)

As an aside, us "dog people" think nothing of the "b" word in its proper context. To a breeder, the "Dog" is the male canine, and the "B" is the female canine, and such usage is totally proper. If I asked a breeder "Who is that puppies mommie?" they would look at me like I was nuts. When you see a nice dog, and the owner says "its a line breeding on Cosmo (or other well known lab sire) the response is invariably "What's the "b" line?" Now, when you apply the "B" word outside of that context, that is another issue.


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## jwithnell (Jul 17, 2012)

I have to comment on "wicked" for cool. No way: don't call good what God calls bad. It was popular in the 80s and popped up again in some Pixar moves.

Snap? That meant "great" for a while there. Now it's bad? I guess that's part of what this kind of language is for: identifying those inside or outside a group.


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## Caroline (Jul 17, 2012)

This is actually something I have been circling around lately. When I was a kid, my mother was so strict on these things that we were not even allowed to say 'cool' (even to describe temperature) because 'cool' was a hippie word and hippies used drugs.

Thus the extreme of trying to avoid all possible 'bad' words. 

Sometimes, it seems like words are just conventionally acceptable or unacceptable. As far as I can tell, the 's' word and '****' mean the same thing, but people routinely consider one a swear word and the other not. I have frequently heard '****' as an exclamation even in church.

Also, words that are unacceptable in certain cultures are completely acceptable in others. 

Overall, I try to use only words that I would not mind hearing my children say, and that is actually a stricter standard than I realized at first. Even the word '****' as an exclamation is not something I want to hear emerging from the mouth of my six-year-old daughter. 

However, I do think that there is a difference between standards we impose on ourselves and those we impose on others. There are some people whom I respect greatly that are far less careful in their use of exclamations than I am. But I try to remember to judge in charity, to remember that not everyone knows what certain words mean, and that words may even mean different things in different cultures. In other words, just because it mildly offends me doesn't mean that it is a sin. I'm not the ultimately judge of things like that. Sandals with socks offend me also, but that doesn't mean I should reprimand random strangers on the beach about it. Etc.


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 18, 2012)

Caroline said:


> Sometimes, it seems like words are just conventionally acceptable or unacceptable. As far as I can tell, the 's' word and '****' mean the same thing, but people routinely consider one a swear word and the other not. I have frequently heard '****' as an exclamation even in church.


I am sorry I am having a hard time following what letter does the **** word start with or what does it rhyme with. Not that we should encourage foul language but i have a hard time knowing what you are referring to given that there are many four letter exclamations that are vulgar.


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## Caroline (Jul 18, 2012)

Sorry. Filter caught me, so I guess this site is more of the 'it's offensive' persuasion. It rhymes with 'map', if that helps, and it starts with a 'c'. I've heard people use it frequently, and even in church, although, frankly, it disgusts me more than the 's' word in the sense of creating a mental image. But maybe that's just me.

I should add, in the interest of honesty, that I used to be definitely far less guarded in use of words. Hearing some of them repeated back to me by my kids changed my perspective somewhat. But I'm trying to guard against the very real temptation on the other side to begin to attack things in others to which I have only recently begun to change in myself. I tend to be like a smoker trying to quit who shrieks at everyone to put out their filthy cigarettes (I have never been a smoker, but the analogy is rather fitting). Sometimes it is easy to get oversensitive to things when we are struggling to change ourselves, and so I'm trying to keep that in mind as I work on changing my own speaking habits.


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 18, 2012)

Okay understood. Thanks for the clarification. If I am thinking of the same word it is unfortunate that the last name of the man who invented one of the earliest modern toilets has such a crude connotation.


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## Afterthought (Jul 18, 2012)

Matthew 5:34-37 "But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil."

With respect to minced oaths--while this passage perhaps is not directly addressing the profane use of such oaths as exclamations, but rather, common swearing--I've sometimes wondered whether "Yes" or "No" would be sufficient in many cases instead of the usual exclamations, as I too have tried to clean up my language. After all, such exclamations are usually used to express agreement when something exciting or good has happened, or disagreement when something bad or annoying has happened (is such strong disagreement as expressed by exclamations lawful anyway--in at least most cases--given that the annoyance was dealt by the Providence of God, and we should be careful not to contem it/should be more patient with it?). Though perhaps that would really be to substitute one oath for another, seeing how the minced oaths are connected to the attitude with which one speaks? Thoughts?


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## py3ak (Jul 18, 2012)

Caroline said:


> Sandals with socks offend me also, but that doesn't mean I should reprimand random strangers on the beach about it.



For what it's worth, you have my unqualified approval to reprimand people for this.


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## gordo (Jul 18, 2012)

py3ak said:


> Caroline said:
> 
> 
> > Sandals with socks offend me also, but that doesn't mean I should reprimand random strangers on the beach about it.
> ...



Indeed! Is there no decency?


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## kvanlaan (Jul 20, 2012)

> If you knew this group you'd know that a big problem they have is being annoyed. This person is annoying and that one, and this thing and that thing, and many things that are part of life in school, home, church. They will say their parents are annoying. Not just trials are annoying, its more like a youthful arrogance about anything that does not suit them. Not all the time, but too much. And they want to be able to express how annoying things are.
> 
> That was what I was trying to address yesterday. I mean, you could say a minced oath because something just happened that was a shock and took you by surprise and is crushing or very hard to deal with. Or you can be a modern American who deserves to have your way today and anything that does not go your way is annoying, and minced oaths are more of a whiney thing. And changing frikken to something else while still being sort of contemptuously annoyed is not OK with me. So that is why we are talking about it.



Interesting. I see Lynnie's point in all of this quite clearly, I think. While 'reprimanding' these girls for using 'bangin'" and the like may seem a bit much, on the other hand, I would wonder where they got it and why they are trying to emulate that source. It sounds trendy and 'cool' but why follow what's trendy and cool? I just don't get it - amity with the world is enmity with God and I want my children to resemble the world in these things as little as possible (no we're not Amish, and no, I don't want my children to be locked up in 16th century Puritanland until they're 19 and then be unleashed on the world on their own - that's not wise). However, there are ways we just go with the flow of the culture and the language is one of those things. It influences us if we see it as amoral and just let it wash over us - and then we sound like the world, sorta kinda, but cleaner, so we're still able to be relevant and don't have to sit alone at lunch. 

Further, the ability of teens to be annoyed by just about anything that doesn't fit with their desire du jour is indeed a large part of the issue. Suck it up, butter cup, and be thankful that your shoes cost as much as an entire family will earn in the Third World this month, and that you bought them to go with one particular outfit you have in an overstuffed closet. It is because of this lifestyle that you have the luxury of being annoyed over the color of the iPod your parents bought you for Christmas. I know it is not as bad as all that, but even two generations ago in my biological family, having enough food on the table was a major triumph, and as a 16 year old, you worked like a dog to help feed your family, there were simply no trivial pursuits. For a number of my children, it is the same, and food and shelter are things that they are genuinely thankful for, because they've been without both in recent memory. I see a lot of these slang terms as measures of maturity, and I find it interesting watching my children interact and how they use language often reflects the depth of their maturity in certain areas. We have one, who, though rather naughty at times, is completely unaffected by peer pressure - his speech is among the most 'textbook' I've heard, as the buzz words and phrases of the day mean nothing to him. His 'twin' on the other hand (same age, different color) is a slave to peer pressure, and his speech and behavior are set by others, and are colored deeply by what will make him sound cool. Thus the 'frikin' type language comes out there faster than with the previous child - we are very concerned with whom child #2 interacts with, because whatever terms are used will come home much more quickly. 

Sorry, sounds kinda rant-ish but I'm just a little more sensitive to 'teenage expression' and how it comes out of their mouths because of what it normally says about things deeper within them.


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