# Anti Gay Marriage a Miss USA Disqualifier?



## DMcFadden (Apr 20, 2009)

> Miss North Carolina Kristen Dalton was crowned Miss USA on Sunday, but the big story to come out of the normally politics-free telecast was Miss California's comments regarding gay marriage.
> 
> When asked by judge Perez Hilton, an openly gay gossip blogger, whether she believed in gay marriage, Miss California, Carrie Prejean, said "We live in a land where you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite. And you know what, I think in my country, in my family, I think that I believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised."
> 
> ...



The drift of culture is so decidedly against us (duh!) that the giving of a traditional answer (not even a specifically Christian one) is viewed as hate speech!



> Miss California's answer sparked a shouting match in the lobby after the show. "It's ugly," said Scott Ihrig, a gay man, who attended the pageant with his partner. "I think it's ridiculous that she got first runner-up. That is not the value of 95 percent of the people in this audience. Look around this audience and tell me how many gay men there are."


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

Sad what they are sooo blind to is that they want people to respect their views but they do not want to respect other peoples views. 

It is my way or the hiway. It is self centered. 

I want freedom of beliefs as long as they are mine. 

For a Christian to say you are free to d as the state allows, but I believe.. this is evil in their eyes. 

The blind man even says, religious views should not be an issue. So why were they? Why did she lose because of hers? 
Are they not supposed to have any religious views? 
Isn't it a religious view to decide the morality of gay marriage? 

They just want their religious views in the paegent, no one elses

The audience applauded her statement wildly so I think the population does still support marriage as is or at least her right to express her view.


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## Skyler (Apr 20, 2009)

They discriminate because of religious views? Isn't that sue-able?


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

The pageant judge would say 

Prove it ! Just cuz I called her a blonde B--- in my video blog the next day and trashed her for her views does not mean I gave her a 0 for what she said. 

Its cuz she is stupid.


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## py3ak (Apr 20, 2009)

That seems like yet another indication of the democratization of truth (which is the same thing, of course, as its disembowelment, dismemberment and utter destruction). She can be beautiful without approving of homosexual marriage.


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## Theoretical (Apr 20, 2009)

So, she was criticized, but how was she disqualified?


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

py3ak said:


> That seems like yet another indication of the democratization of truth (which is the same thing, of course, as its disembowelment, dismemberment and utter destruction). She can be beautiful without approving of homosexual marriage.



You are wrong! 

It is not democratization. 
That would indicate a majority view wouldn't it? 

We have loud minorities who seem to get their way. I do not understand this. 

Why as long as we have freedom to do so are not more professing Christians speaking out for what they want? Why do we let the minorities 1% atheists take God out of school by their protest. Do we agree with them? 

Why do we let a gay minority be so vocal. They want us to accept them, we did, now they do not want to accept us. 

I think God will judge us for burying our talents in our church parking lots and send serious oppression and loss of freedoms for not continuing in the bold tradition of our founding fathers. 

If we do not have their guts and boldness we do not get their freedoms.


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## Tripel (Apr 20, 2009)

It doesn't seem like an appropriate question (the appropriateness of a Miss USA pageant is another issue). 

The purpose, as I understand it, is not to find out someone's political viewpoints. It's even more pointless to ask a political question when only one answer is acceptable.


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

Well sure it is. Our Miss America must hold forth the politically correct views. She cannot be an individual. 

She at least has to be smart enough to know the gay judge would give her a 0 if she said that. 

So she promotes her Christian view or she speaks PC and says its not in my pay grade to decide such and issue we should leave it up to the state legislators.


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## matt01 (Apr 20, 2009)

Tripel said:


> The purpose, as I understand it, is not to find out someone's political viewpoints. It's even more pointless to ask a political question when only one answer is acceptable.



I agree. What bothers me is not that the organization/judges are pro-gay, but that they ask a question (seeking an opinion) and then get mad when the person says what they believe.


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## Zenas (Apr 20, 2009)

I find it funny that when asked of her personal opinion, the homosexual population erupts in anger. It's amusing to me that one cannot hold an opinion contra to the homosexual marriage agenda without incurring wrath. Apparently, free speech and free thought are no longer popular in this country. It's becoming more and more apparent it's only a right if you agree with what certain others agree. 

Sounds a lot like what the liberals formerly accused the conservatives of and, a total repeat of what went on in Germany and Russia where all competing ideologies were squelched via fear of or execution of persecution. 

This is a prime example of becoming what you hate. It seems to me that fear years liberals have feared the imposition of conservative ideology on themselves and have railed against it. Now, their chief concern is imposing their ideology on others. 

Their hypocrisy is complete, they are now what they have always hated: oppressors.


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## SolaGratia (Apr 20, 2009)

Miss California also demonstrated how we in California are not as liberal as the rest of the nation think we are.


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## SolaScriptura (Apr 20, 2009)

Zenas said:


> I find it funny that when asked of her personal opinion, the homosexual population erupts in anger. It's amusing to me that one cannot hold an opinion contra to the homosexual marriage agenda without incurring wrath. Apparently, free speech and free thought are no longer popular in this country. It's becoming more and more apparent it's only a right if you agree with what certain others agree.
> 
> Sounds a lot like what the liberals formerly accused the conservatives of and, a total repeat of what went on in Germany and Russia where all competing ideologies were squelched via fear of or execution of persecution.
> 
> ...



They are. But the question is: How long will people subject themselves to oppression?


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## Blueridge Believer (Apr 20, 2009)

Oh that God would give us a Josiah:

2Ki 23:5 And he put down the idolatrous priests, whom the kings of Judah had ordained to burn incense in the high places in the cities of Judah, and in the places round about Jerusalem; them also that burned incense unto Baal, to the sun, and to the moon, and to the planets, and to all the host of heaven. 
2Ki 23:6 And he brought out the grove from the house of the LORD, without Jerusalem, unto the brook Kidron, and burned it at the brook Kidron, and stamped [it] small to powder, and cast the powder thereof upon the graves of the children of the people. 
2Ki 23:7 And he brake down the houses of the sodomites, that [were] by the house of the LORD, where the women wove hangings for the grove.


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## Zenas (Apr 20, 2009)

I suffer it not now, nor will I undertake to do so, and I encourage others to do likewise. I will not endure under the heel of worldly oppression without complaint to my oppressors that they rebel against the Sovereign of Heaven.


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## BJClark (Apr 20, 2009)

So she's first runner up--IF for some reason the winner withdraws or can not full fill her obligations, Miss California would step up to take her place..so in that respect, she hasn't lost anything. 

However, if for whatever reason, the winner can not full fill her obligations and they refuse to allow Miss California from stepping up to take her place..then it could be looked at as a case of discrimination for her beliefs..


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## ZackF (Apr 20, 2009)

I am not much of a pagent person myself but even if I were I wouldn't be surprised at this. At events that rely heavily on trendiness we should expect as much.


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## ColdSilverMoon (Apr 20, 2009)

Zenas said:


> I find it funny that when asked of her personal opinion, the homosexual population erupts in anger. It's amusing to me that one cannot hold an opinion contra to the homosexual marriage agenda without incurring wrath. Apparently, free speech and free thought are no longer popular in this country. It's becoming more and more apparent it's only a right if you agree with what certain others agree.
> 
> Sounds a lot like what the liberals formerly accused the conservatives of and, a total repeat of what went on in Germany and Russia where all competing ideologies were squelched via fear of or execution of persecution.
> 
> ...



Well said, Andrew. Ironically, she agrees with the majority voters in her state, which supported the amendment banning gay marriage. The arrogance of these people is astonishing: their views are clearly in the in this country, yet they act as if they were the vast majority. Frustrating and annoying, to say the least...


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

ColdSilverMoon said:


> Zenas said:
> 
> 
> > I find it funny that when asked of her personal opinion, the homosexual population erupts in anger. It's amusing to me that one cannot hold an opinion contra to the homosexual marriage agenda without incurring wrath. Apparently, free speech and free thought are no longer popular in this country. It's becoming more and more apparent it's only a right if you agree with what certain others agree.
> ...



Their arrogance excels this and they think all should agree with them and will as soon as religious error and bondage is removed so people can think correctly. 
Thus justifying their agenda to abolish religion that opposes homosexuality. 
*
The goal of PC correct is to be against exclusion, as long as they can exclude all who disagree with them. *


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## Tripel (Apr 20, 2009)

> ...No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised.



I'm nitpicking here, but I'll say it anyway: the "that's how I was raised" qualifier is unnecessary and juvenile. It shouldn't matter how you were raised. You are an adult, therefore you should come to your own conclusions. 
This excuse is sometimes used in a racial context, but it doesn't surprise me that she used it here. I'm not intending to knock her position, but I wish she would take responsibility of it.


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## Theoretical (Apr 20, 2009)

Tripel said:


> > ...No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised.
> 
> 
> I'm nitpicking here, but I'll say it anyway: the "that's how I was raised" qualifier is unnecessary and juvenile. It shouldn't matter how you were raised. You are an adult, therefore you should come to your own conclusions.
> This excuse is sometimes used in a racial context, but it doesn't surprise me that she used it here. I'm not intending to knock her position, but I wish she would take responsibility of it.


I have to agree as well. 

Even on the things I agree with my parents on with regard to morality, they are views I hold because I've thought about them and adopted them myself, often for different underlying reasoning.

The 1960s "Sexual Revolution" is proof positive that merely being taught x, y, and z doesn't mean squat if you don't personally "own" that belief yourself.


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## ChariotsofFire (Apr 20, 2009)

Tripel said:


> > ...No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## cih1355 (Apr 20, 2009)

Tripel said:


> > ...No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I agree. She believes that gay marriage is wrong because she was raised to believe that it is wrong. This is not a good reason for believing that gay marriage is wrong. A better reason for believing it is wrong would be that it is contrary to God's character.


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

As long as she was going to say it she may as well have said and this is what the Bible teaches or God teaches us, or my Christian faith teaches. 


But giving her a little grace, she was under a lot of pressure, she did say she was Christian, and she did take a stand for her position. She was just trying to be gracious and that is how it came out. 

Given time to prepare she may have said it differently. 

Not all have a rapid fire response mind like some who post here.


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## Theoretical (Apr 20, 2009)

Joshua said:


> I'll be more than happy if my daughter ever gives that reason (that's how I was raised) for upholding biblical truth. Just because the girl used that response, doesn't mean it's the _only_ reason she believes it. People can tell me all the time "You're brainwashing your daughter." Fine. Somebody's gonna be "brainwashing" her, I'd just prefer it to be the truth with which she's being brainwashed, and her daddy the one doing it.


Now this is also true and I acknowledge that.


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## Tripel (Apr 20, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> But giving her a little grace, she was under a lot of pressure



Absolutely. She didn't have time for a well-thought out answer. Like I said, I'm just nitpicking.

-----Added 4/20/2009 at 03:38:55 EST-----



Joshua said:


> I'll be more than happy if my daughter ever gives that reason (that's how I was raised) for upholding biblical truth. Just because the girl used that response, doesn't mean it's the _only_ reason she believes it. People can tell me all the time "You're brainwashing your daughter." Fine. Somebody's gonna be "brainwashing" her, I'd just prefer it to be the truth with which she's being brainwashed, and her daddy the one doing it.



I'll be happy if my daughter gives that reason up to a certain age. When she's an adult (and probably before then), I hope she's thought through why she believes what she believes. And hopefully her reasoning is more than "that's how I was raised." 

Also, I'm not suggesting it's the _only_ reason she believes it, but it IS the reason (or excuse) that she gave.


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## Ex Nihilo (Apr 20, 2009)

Tripel said:


> It doesn't seem like an appropriate question *(the appropriateness of a Miss USA pageant is another issue). *
> 
> The purpose, as I understand it, is not to find out someone's political viewpoints. It's even more pointless to ask a political question when only one answer is acceptable.



Honestly, I see the hypocrisy of raising a young women to think that gay marriage is not okay (correct) but that her appearing on national television in a bikini is okay (incorrect) as the biggest underlying problem. It was wrong for people to trash her for her views, but it's also understandable (if wrong) that some don't these kind of moral pronouncements seriously.


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

Ex Nihilo said:


> Honestly, I see the hypocrisy of raising a young women to think that gay marriage is not okay (correct) but that her appearing on national television in a bikini is okay (incorrect) as the biggest underlying problem. It was wrong for people to trash her for her views, but it's also understandable (if wrong) that some don't these kind of moral pronouncements seriously.



Are they equally wrong?

Is there a place that would be appropriate for a bikini or no?


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## Ex Nihilo (Apr 20, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Ex Nihilo said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I see the hypocrisy of raising a young women to think that gay marriage is not okay (correct) but that her appearing on national television in a bikini is okay (incorrect) as the biggest underlying problem. It was wrong for people to trash her for her views, but it's also understandable (if wrong) that some don't these kind of moral pronouncements seriously.
> ...



No, they're not equally wrong, and I don't mean to imply that they are. I'm just suggesting that if we took sexual purity and modesty more seriously for everyone, our condemnation of homosexuality would be clearer. I don't mean that people need to be sinless to call sin sinful, but that if we want to _teach_ others, we have to set an example. I'm definitely not trying to mitigate the sinfulness of homosexuality.

I'm not sure if there are appropriate places for the bikini, but I think on national television, while one's figure is being judged, is not one.


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## py3ak (Apr 20, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Ex Nihilo said:
> 
> 
> > Honestly, I see the hypocrisy of raising a young women to think that gay marriage is not okay (correct) but that her appearing on national television in a bikini is okay (incorrect) as the biggest underlying problem. It was wrong for people to trash her for her views, but it's also understandable (if wrong) that some don't these kind of moral pronouncements seriously.
> ...



[Moderator]
*I think that's completely off topic. Let's keep this one on track, shall we?*
[/Moderator]


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## Tripel (Apr 20, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Are they equally wrong?
> 
> Is there a place that would be appropriate for a bikini or no?



I'm not sure about the first question, although I think there are a lot of things wrong with beauty pageants.

As to the second question, it sounds like a new thread is needed. But I'm inclined to say yes, there is a place where it's appropriate.


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

I felt it was relevant to the thread based on Ex Nihilo's statement. 

If in fact a bikini is acceptable liberty on the beach or pool for a Christian woman, then as part of a pageant to check such appearance as well as appearance in a ball gown. or high heels, etc. I would not see it as inconsistent. 

She would not wear it to the store, but she would not wear the ball gown and most would not wear the heels to the beach. But this does not make them wrong in all places. Since the pageant is looking at a women in all different settings, I see it as part of the pageant. 

As for whether it is consistent with Christian modesty to wear clothes appropirate for one location to another, or where they know they will be on TV, I will leave for another thread. 

Same as the subject of whether a talent or beauty contest is within Christian liberty. 

Evie was consistent, that was my interest.


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## OPC'n (Apr 20, 2009)

No one can have their own set of beliefs here in America anymore if it goes against the liberal's belief system!


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## py3ak (Apr 20, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> I felt it was relevant to the thread based on Ex Nihilo's statement.



[Moderator]
*Yes, but I didn't and Evie agrees with me. Just in case there was any doubt, my tagline means "the tyrant".*
[/Moderator]


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## Rich Koster (Apr 20, 2009)

Oh, there was a pageant on TV?


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## DonP (Apr 20, 2009)

py3ak said:


> PeaceMaker said:
> 
> 
> > I felt it was relevant to the thread based on Ex Nihilo's statement.
> ...





Yes I knew that SIR


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## Grace Alone (Apr 20, 2009)

I really admire her for answering what was probably a very surprising question in the way she did! This may launch her a career in conservative media even though it cost her the pageant! (I didn't watch it and didn't even know it was on!)


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## SolaGratia (Apr 21, 2009)

James White has his comments:

[video=youtube;ElW6GLW15qM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ElW6GLW15qM[/video]


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## EricP (Apr 22, 2009)

*Miss America, gay/lesbian agenda*

Having had the misfortune of living through both the furor in San Francisco over the attempted closing of the bath houses, and the "amendment 2" debacle in Colorado, the well-orchestrated, strident, self-righteous, unforgiving, angry, often disingenuous, always well-funded attacks of the gay/lesbian lobby groups have always astounded me. The attacks are swift, pointed, aggressive, and unrelenting (ok, I've run out of adjectives and adverbs for now...), and the "take no prisoners" approach is breathtaking to watch. Honest debate is thrown out the window, and every principle (it seems) of honest discussion is ignored in favor of inflated rhetoric and loud yelling. Having the continuous ears of sympathetic media doesn't hurt either. Thank goodness Christians have prayer and a loving God on their side, even though secular victories are never promised us, given the fallen world in which we live.


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## kvanlaan (Apr 22, 2009)

> Oh, there was a pageant on TV?



What's a TV? 

(Dude, don't even _try_ to out-Puritan me!)


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## Berean (Apr 22, 2009)

Commentary: Miss California, thanks for being honest - CNN.com


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## MrMerlin777 (Apr 22, 2009)

This is .

But frankly, I think the whole Miss USA thing is pointless to begin with.


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## Timothy William (Apr 22, 2009)

Joshua said:


> If she's a Christian, she shouldn't be there anyway. Beauty pageants, competitions? Bleh. Vanity of vanities.



I wouldn't go quite as far as to say she shouldn't be there, but I cannot see much, if any, value in these pageants.


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## Knoxienne (Apr 22, 2009)

Joshua said:


> Timothy William said:
> 
> 
> > Joshua said:
> ...


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## SolaGratia (Apr 22, 2009)

[video=youtube;vTE9zWaQc_Y]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vTE9zWaQc_Y[/video]


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## kvanlaan (Apr 22, 2009)

Prager did as good a job as he could under the situation - the lack of logic on the part of the "Queen of Gossip" was astounding...


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## Michael Butterfield (Apr 22, 2009)

Joshua said:


> If she's a Christian, she shouldn't be there anyway. Beauty pageants, competitions? Bleh. Vanity of vanities.


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## Kevin (Apr 22, 2009)

Tripel said:


> > ...No offense to anybody out there, but that's how I was raised.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That phrase is a commonly used "term of art" for "my majority/white/protestant/politicaly-incorrect/ cultural values"



-----Added 4/22/2009 at 06:10:11 EST-----



kvanlaan said:


> > Oh, there was a pageant on TV?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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