# Please help me!



## Latino Reformado (Sep 23, 2021)

God Bless you, I need your help.

According to the Presbyterian perspective, how does one ordain a Minister of the Word without having an established presbytery?

I live in Venezuela, and there are no Presbyterian/Reformed churches here. 

What should be done in these rare cases?


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## RobertPGH1981 (Sep 23, 2021)

I believe you would need to find a presbytery in a neighboring country sharing your beliefs (PCA, OPC, RP ect). I can think of a few churches that have been established abroad in a simular way but I can't speak to all the nuances. I think they work with the church abroad until they can have their own presbytery. They may include them in their own.


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 23, 2021)

I am not sure if the OPC or PCA have missions near my country. 

Thank you for your response.


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## ZackF (Sep 23, 2021)

Where in Venezuela do you live? Welcome btw.


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 23, 2021)

Aragua State. It is located 75 miles from the capital of the country (Caracas). 

Thank you very much!


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## ZackF (Sep 23, 2021)

Latino Reformado said:


> Aragua State. It is located 75 miles from the capital of the country (Caracas).
> 
> Thank you very much!


Is there a Presbyterian/Reformed church in Caracas that may have a pastor/elder that can recommend a church closer? Caracas is huge. I can’t believe nothing exist there.


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 23, 2021)

There are about two or three churches in Caracas and several in the state of Zulia. 

The big problem is that they do not use the WCF, they ordain women to the ministry, and they have fellowship with Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.). And they have a great resemblance to the Roman Catholic "Church".

Here Trinitarian Pentecostalism and the charismatic movement are intermingled. People believe that Evangelical means "Pentecostal".

This is the context in which I operate.


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 23, 2021)

Is it just you or is their group or church? I know a American Spanish speaking RPCNA minister who has had contact with different South American Presbyterians over the years, but I'm not sure if he has had any contacts in Venezuela. You can contact him by email at https://www.lasvegasreformedpresbyterianchurch.com/contact-us/

Reactions: Informative 1


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## hammondjones (Sep 23, 2021)

I lived in Bolivia for a while, so I know it is hard to find a Reformed church down there, outside of Brazil, maybe. However, I think there is reason to be encouraged by the growth of confessional churches. I think there are some options. 

You could contact a denomination in the USA. Some people from Colombia contacted the OPC and they now have several congregations. 
https://www.opc.org/feature.html?feature_id=236 








Iglesia Presbiteriana de la Reforma


La Iglesia Presbiteriana de la Reforma entiende la importancia de defender y mantener las verdades de la Palabra de Dios.




www.ipreforma.org





There might be others you can contact in Colombia (https://www.irepcolombia.org/) but I don't know anything about them.

The RPCNA has a committee devoted to central/south america. They just were part of a new church in Chile (https://presbiterianareformada.wordpress.com/). They also have some contact with a reformed church in Bolivia (https://iprbolivia.org/). Not sure not to contact them directly, but they might either be able to help, or point you to someone who could.

Reactions: Informative 2


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 23, 2021)

NaphtaliPress said:


> ¿Es solo usted, es su grupo o iglesia? Conozco a un ministro de la RPCNA de habla hispana estadounidense que ha tenido contacto con diferentes presbiterianos sudamericanos a lo largo de los años, pero no estoy seguro si ha tenido contactos en Venezuela. Puede contactarlo por correo electrónico en https://www.lasvegasreformedpresbyterianchurch.com/contact-us/


¡Lo recordare!


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## NaphtaliPress (Sep 23, 2021)

The minister I linked to, Edgar Ibarra, is involved with the RPCNA work presbiterianareformada I think.


hammondjones said:


> I lived in Bolivia for a while, so I know it is hard to find a Reformed church down there, outside of Brazil, maybe. However, I think there is reason to be encouraged by the growth of confessional churches. I think there are some options.
> 
> You could contact a denomination in the USA. Some people from Colombia contacted the OPC and they now have several congregations.
> https://www.opc.org/feature.html?feature_id=236
> ...





Latino Reformado said:


> ¡Lo recordare!

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Edward (Sep 23, 2021)

Latino Reformado said:


> According to the Presbyterian perspective, how does one ordain a Minister of the Word without having an established presbytery?


In the PCA, an ordained minister can be commissioned as an Evangelist to carry out that duty in an area where there isn't a Presbytery:

8-6. When a teaching elder is appointed to the work of an evangelist in foreign countries or where there are no other PCA churches within a reasonable distance, he is commissioned for a renewable term of twelve months to preach the Word, to administer the Sacraments, to receive and dismiss members of mission churches, and to train potential officers. By separate actions the Presbytery may in extraordinary situations commission him to examine, ordain and install ruling elders and deacons and organize churches

The closest PCA mission teams to you are in Colombia (Bogota and Medellin. There are also teams in Quito and Panama.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ben Zartman (Sep 23, 2021)

The Seminario Reformado Latinoamericano (I think that's it), in Medellin, may be able to help you. The subscribe to the WCF, though most of their students and staff are Baptists--it's a bit of an anomaly, but they are very earnest and very enthusiastically reformed.


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 24, 2021)

We are a very small congregation (10 people). Our pastor was ordained in a Pentecostal church, although he (and we too) have embraced the Reformed Faith. 

Is his ordination valid?

Please pray for us!


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## py3ak (Sep 24, 2021)

One of the great blessings of the Reformed faith is that we make a distinction between _irregular_ and _invalid_. 

It is likely that in terms of Reformed books of church order your pastor's ordination may well have been handled quite differently. But did God call him to this position? Has the church recognized and affirmed his calling? Then there may be much to learn as you hopefully find a Reformed body to associate yourselves with, but the congregation and pastor now present should continue to function with a clear conscience, even as you take further steps of reform.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Jerusalem Blade (Sep 24, 2021)

Hello LR,

In these unusual circumstances – which finds you and your church as an _independent_ Reformed (or at least Calvinistic as you hold to the LBC) congregation – Ruben's words above, "Has the church recognized and affirmed his calling", are the crux of the matter. If your local church has agreed, voted, called him to pastor you, before the Lord who is the Head of the church, you may consider him ordained or appointed to the office. Would you say he qualifies according to Paul's epistle to Titus 1:5-9:

"For this cause left I thee in Crete, that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting, and ordain elders in every city, as I had appointed thee: If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate; Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers."

If you affirm his qualifications as per this Scripture – perhaps not perfectly, but essentially – then I would say _your_ church's ordination, and not the Pentecostals, is valid for your church.


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 24, 2021)

py3ak said:


> One of the great blessings of the Reformed faith is that we make a distinction between _irregular_ and _invalid_.
> 
> It is likely that in terms of Reformed books of church order your pastor's ordination may well have been handled quite differently. But did God call him to this position? Has the church recognized and affirmed his calling? Then there may be much to learn as you hopefully find a Reformed body to associate yourselves with, but the congregation and pastor now present should continue to function with a clear conscience, even as you take further steps of reform.


Yes, the congregation has recognized and affirmed his call to ministry. (including me)

Reactions: Like 1


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 24, 2021)

Jerusalem Blade said:


> Hello LR,
> 
> In these unusual circumstances – which finds you and your church as an _independent_ Reformed (or at least Calvinistic as you hold to the LBC) congregation – Ruben's words above, "Has the church recognized and affirmed his calling", are the crux of the matter. If your local church has agreed, voted, called him to pastor you, before the Lord who is the Head of the church, you may consider him ordained or appointed to the office. Would you say he qualifies according to Paul's epistle to Titus 1:5-9:
> 
> ...


Hello!

Yes, the congregation recognizes that the Lord has qualified him for the ministry. 

The Minister is also my father, so I have seen these qualifications in him; not in a perfect way (obviously), but The Lord is qualifying them.


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## Latino Reformado (Sep 24, 2021)

Ben Zartman said:


> The Seminario Reformado Latinoamericano (I think that's it), in Medellin, may be able to help you. The subscribe to the WCF, though most of their students and staff are Baptists--it's a bit of an anomaly, but they are very earnest and very enthusiastically reformed.


I have heard of them. Lord willing, I plan to go to seminary after I finish college. 

Here in my country, the great majority of evangelicals do not like "Theology" they believe that they are "Doctrines of Men". There are no real seminaries in this country; the only recognized "Seminary" is the Assemblies of God (Pentecostal). They do not teach Greek, nor Hebrew; just a little bit of texts out of context, and a lot of psychology.


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## jwithnell (Sep 24, 2021)

A PCA congregation had been actively involved in getting churches started in Peru. Is it at all a help to know of work in another country?








Peru Mission







www.perumission.org


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