# Epidemic of Conversion to Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy, What is the Church Doing?



## Acts 16 (Nov 7, 2022)

There seems to be a lot of people converting to Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy from Protestantism, including from Reformed backgrounds. I've also seen people who were inquiring into Christianity getting sucked into one of these churches because they were convinced that Protestantism couldn't possibly be true because it's comparatively "new." This trend has reached epidemic levels among politically conservative men under the age of 30 who are interested in history (a group I would include myself in). There has been a successful push to portray the Reformers as the leftists of their day. Furthermore, Protestants in general seem unaware of this trend or are doing nothing to combat it.

While I grew up in a Christian household, I didn't begin to take Christianity seriously until I was 22 years old. At the time, I was in a country where Christianity was heavily restricted and I wasn't going to church (I attended a government-approved church one time). I would read a chapter of the Bible every day and I would sometimes listen to Christian content on YouTube. I was soon introduced to the world of Roman Catholic (and to a much lesser extent Eastern Orthodox) apologetics. I found a lot of their arguments very compelling. When I was younger, I had seen Roman Catholicism as a joke, I thought that the existence of bad popes disproved their entire system. But they said a lot of things that I had no answer for. Every objection I had to Roman Catholicism, they seemed to have an answer to. I had also come across some Catholic extremist groups like Most Holy Family Monastery (a breakaway cult from Rome claiming to be the true Catholicism), whose arguments in favor of works salvation and tradition were more advanced than what is typical on the internet. This cult runs a YouTube channel with over 100,000 subscribers.

I looked for answers. Catholics were putting way more content on the internet than Protestants. I would type "Catholic converts to Protestantism" on Google and the search results would mostly be the opposite. Finally, I found Protestants who took the time to debunk Catholic apologists. I watched James White debates where he refuted a lot of Catholic claims, especially about church history. I watched An Earnest Plea to Roman Catholics, which is in my opinion the best treatment on the subject I've ever seen. And finally, I finished reading through the Bible, and I noticed that the New Testament especially seems much closer to Protestantism than Catholicism. Sadly, James White and Ancient Paths TV's videos have considerably less views than Catholic channels. All the Roman Catholic objections have been answered, but you have to go out of your way to try to find them. Which brings me to my question, what is the church doing about the increasing conversions to Rome or Constantinople?

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## Lowlander (Nov 8, 2022)

I can’t think of a single person I know who has converted to RC. But I do know of some who have come out of it. 

Is this perhaps more of an issue where you live?

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## Polanus1561 (Nov 8, 2022)

An epidemic… as demonstrated by YouTube content and numbers? I am confused.

"There seems to be* a lot of people converting to Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy from Protestantism*, including from Reformed backgrounds. I've also seen *people who were inquiring into Christianity* getting sucked into one of these churches because they were convinced that Protestantism couldn't possibly be true because it's comparatively "new."

The latter is another topic (?) - unbelievers choosing Catholicism
The former is your claim that is pertinent to your OP. Do you have any evidences for this claim other than Youtube searches? Youtube videos seem to skew towards certain demographics (dispensational videos anyone?) and certainly not the most valid of evidences.


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## Rome2Geneva (Nov 8, 2022)

The common theme and complaint I have discovered among converts to Roman Catholicism from Protestantism is the shallowness of American Evangelicalism (a fair criticism) and an ignorance of all that Rome really teaches. "Christian" rock bands, lightshows, casual approaches to worship, church "services" that look more like concerts with shallow, seeker sensitive preaching simply do not appeal to the serious inquirer or believer who is searching for a deeper and more meaningful encounter with the Holy. When one goes from the previously described to a Roman mass, especially if it's the old Latin mass, they encounter something that feels ancient and serious. The incense, candles, vestments, the ancient chanting, the solemness of the ritual stands in stark contrast to your typical Evangelical service. By time one has been awed by the outward trappings of Rome or Orthodoxy it is usually only a matter of time before they convert. 

I've also found that many converts to Rome are ignorant not only of Magisterial Reformational doctrine but also of many of Rome's more problematic doctrines and the historical development of those doctrines. Many converts listen to presentations from Catholic Answers or some other online apologists and are duped into thinking that what Rome now believes regarding Papal infallibility, The Marian dogmas, Purgatory, the Mass as propitiatory sacrifice, etc. was directly handed on to the Apostles by Christ. They have little concept of the centuries long development of Papal Infallibility which wasn't officially dogmatized until 1870. Or the Immaculate Conception which was dogmatized in 1854, Assumption in 1950 and so on. Since Vatican II it is now a fact that if a Catholic who died in 1959 came back in the year 2022 they would have absolutely no recognition of the modern Roman church as being the church they belonged to. Pope Francis would have been excommunicated for multiple heresies by any pre-Vatican II pope. A Catholic from 200 years ago would now have to accept 3 additional dogmas (that which must be believed in order to be saved) in order to be a Catholic. As I heard someone once say, Roman Catholicism is not 'backward compatible'. 

Ultimately I believe that most converts to Rome, though sincere, are shortsighted and lacking in due consideration and knowledge of the real issues. This lack of knowledge even extends to those who have become priests. There is a well known Orthodox priest by the name of Fr. Josiah Trenhem. He claims to have studied under R.C Sproul and a few years ago wrote a book contra the teachings of the Reformers. I read the book and had a hard time believing that he ever understood Reformed theology. The typical oft repeated and refuted nonsense about Calvinism, Sola Scrptura, Sola Fide is found throughout the work. I can't judge the man's heart but it certainly confirmed for me that many who abandon the Gospel for Rome or Orthodoxy haven't really understood the issues very well.

In my opinion American style evangelicalism needs to get serious about doctrine and worship. Abandon the seeker sensitive nonsense and start preaching the true Gospel of repentance and faith in Christ, coupled with serious and Scripturally faithful worship. Seekers are looking for something they can't find at a rock concert or self help group.

Ultimately it comes down to the question: What must I do to be saved? The Scriptures (and Protestantism) give one answer. Rome and Orthodoxy give another. A Roman Catholic would need hours of conversation to tell an unbeliever what they must do. We give the Scriptural answer: Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.

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## joebonni63 (Nov 8, 2022)

I think if you break it down into plain language it would be a mistake to convert to RCC because their doctrine is one of just show up and pay and not on Christ the Savior.......... This is a problem that they believe in plan A and Plan B .......... Plan A was that Christ came to earth to be our buddy so to speak and hang out with His creation lol.......... Plan B was that Christ went to the Cross ............ This makes God Stupid and we shouldn't follow him at this point and the Catholic Church should close on these grounds........... You have to believe that God is Perfect and there is not a Plan A or B just the Plan and that is it............

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## SeanPatrickCornell (Nov 8, 2022)

Didn't we just have this thread? Or am I losing it?

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## RamistThomist (Nov 8, 2022)

There is no epidemic of converts. You have several big (or rather, loud) social media voices. The average Catholic is reading Fr James Martin, not Taylor Marshall.

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## Berean (Nov 8, 2022)

SeanPatrickCornell said:


> Didn't we just have this thread? Or am I losing it?



https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...onverting-to-catholicism.109868/#post-1322155

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## Alan D. Strange (Nov 8, 2022)

SeanPatrickCornell said:


> Didn't we just have this thread? Or am I losing it?


Yes, but from the perspective of South America (Brazil), not Asia. 

I don't think YouTube videos or social media posts make for an epidemic. 

Peace,
Alan

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## C. M. Sheffield (Nov 8, 2022)

Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. 2 Tim. 2:19

Reactions: Like 2 | Praying 1


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## Acts 16 (Nov 8, 2022)

Lowlander said:


> I can’t think of a single person I know who has converted to RC. But I do know of some who have come out of it.
> 
> Is this perhaps more of an issue where you live?


It's probably an issue of me spending too much time on the internet.


Polanus1561 said:


> An epidemic… as demonstrated by YouTube content and numbers? I am confused.
> 
> "There seems to be* a lot of people converting to Roman Catholicism or Eastern Orthodoxy from Protestantism*, including from Reformed backgrounds. I've also seen *people who were inquiring into Christianity* getting sucked into one of these churches because they were convinced that Protestantism couldn't possibly be true because it's comparatively "new."
> 
> ...


My second sentence in my paragraph wasn't very relevant.

I don't have any evidence, it just seems like there are a lot of people converting to Catholicism. For a while I wasn't in regular face-to-face communication with other Christians so I was only interacting with other Christians online.


Rome2Geneva said:


> Ultimately it comes down to the question: What must I do to be saved? The Scriptures (and Protestantism) give one answer. Rome and Orthodoxy give another. A Roman Catholic would need hours of conversation to tell an unbeliever what they must do. We give the Scriptural answer: Repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved.


I agree, and my favorite Bible verse (Acts 16:31) is what gave me confidence that Protestantism was true.


RamistThomist said:


> There is no epidemic of converts. You have several big (or rather, loud) social media voices. The average Catholic is reading Fr James Martin, not Taylor Marshall.


That is a good point. But unfortunately the perception among a huge swath of online conservatives is that Protestantism is liberal.


Berean said:


> https://www.puritanboard.com/thread...onverting-to-catholicism.109868/#post-1322155


Can't see it.


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## RamistThomist (Nov 8, 2022)

Acts 16 said:


> It's probably an issue of me spending too much time on the internet.
> 
> My second sentence in my paragraph wasn't very relevant.
> 
> ...



Most of what is called Protestantism is liberal. So is the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.

Most of the converts online are 14 year olds with anime avatars. I learned to stop taking them seriously in 2014 when Orthdodox Bridge refused to acknowledge the existence of Richard Muller as an academic scholar.

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## Acts 16 (Nov 8, 2022)

RamistThomist said:


> Most of what is called Protestantism is liberal. So is the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese of America.
> 
> Most of the converts online are 14 year olds with anime avatars. I learned to stop taking them seriously in 2014 when Orthdodox Bridge refused to acknowledge the existence of Richard Muller as an academic scholar.


There is a lot of larping going on. For instance, you see a lot of people (often with anime avatars) who want America to be an absolute monarchy with Eastern Orthodoxy as the state religion. They are woefully misinformed about the actual state of Christianity in the West. For instance, I've seen many people claim that Catholics do more Evangelization and missionary work than Protestants.

One of the most unusual things I ever saw (and I wish I could still find this) was from a very belligerent Eastern Orthodox guy on twitter. He had what I presume was a painting of a famous battle in Russian history, but he photoshopped it so Russia's enemies were holding Vatican, LGBT, ISIS, and EU flags as the pious Russians (bringing their icons with them to battle) charged into those heathens.


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## alexanderjames (Nov 8, 2022)

I did notice a short while back an apparent surge online (on social media) of RC/EO material which seems to be a reaction against liberalism in politics, LGBT agendas, and the like. The appeal seems to be by being cool and opposing immoral ideologies in the name of God. I’m thinking primarily of short videos and memes which use trending music and flashy images.. they seem to have an air of worldliness and irreverence. I guess it’s unsurprising that many latch on to these things wanting an alternative to liberalising culture but having an ignorance of the truth of God and perhaps self-righteousness.


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## Eyedoc84 (Nov 8, 2022)

There will always be a problem. Smells and bells are enticing to the flesh.

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## yeutter (Nov 8, 2022)

I have a number of thoughtful friends who left Rome cycled through big Eva, felt that that Big Eva did not connect with them at a deep level, a couple of them tried house churching for a while, read deeply and ultimately swam the Bosporus. 
The Greek and Russian Churches do not partake of all the problems of Rome. Having said that the orthodox will say they do not subscribe to what Rome teaches about justification; what Rome now believes regarding Papal infallibility, and say Rome's approach to Marian dogmas is backwards because it doesn't point to Christ. They Purgatory, the Mass as propitiatory sacrifice, etc. but they do not seem have a good Biblical critique of Rome.
None of my Eastern Church friends seem to understand justification and imputed righteousness.
I think mysticism is the attraction. 
Some of the fellows that went to the Greek Church seem to wish they had went to the Russian Church or to the Antiochian. They will probably never be satisfied.

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## RamistThomist (Nov 9, 2022)

Joshua Schooping (Reformed Ninja) just posted an article on how EO ritually curse every other Christian on "Triumph of Orthodoxy" Sunday. It's worth reading.

Reactions: Informative 1 | Edifying 1


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