# Assemblies of God



## Jared (Mar 24, 2010)

I grew up in the Assemblies of God. I know that they are primarily Arminian, but I was wondering if anyone knows how much Calvinism is in the A/G. Mark Driscoll has mentioned that some of his Acts 29 churches are A/G, although I don't know which ones. Also, one of the scholars that worked on the ESV Study Bible, Douglas Oss is a professor at The Assembly Of God Theological Seminary in Springfield, MO, and he also has a degree from Westminster Theological Seminary.


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## Andres (Mar 25, 2010)

You actually just taught me two Calvinist connections, because I didn't think there were any in the Assemblies of God.


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## Montanablue (Mar 25, 2010)

I have an aunt and an uncle in the Assembly of God. They are Calvinists in their belief - but I'm not sure they would recognize that. They certainly didn't arrive at their beliefs through the teaching of their church, bur rather through personal Bible study.


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## FenderPriest (Mar 25, 2010)

Calling on LawrenceU.


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 25, 2010)

I've never met an Assembly of God member who didn't believe that one could fall away from salvation. Also I have heard many of them teach that if one doesn't speak in tongues then they aren't really saved because they haven't received the Holy Ghost.


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## Idelette (Mar 25, 2010)

DD2009 said:


> I've never met an Assembly of God member who didn't believe that one could fall away from salvation. Also I have heard many of them teach that if one doesn't speak in tongues then they aren't really saved because they haven't received the Holy Ghost.


 
Yes, that's my exact experience with friends from the AoG Church. In fact, I've never met one Calvinist from the AoG church, this is the first time hearing that there would be any. I think it would be impossible to be a Calvinist and remain in that church.


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## Montanablue (Mar 25, 2010)

My experience with my aunt and uncles church is that the preaching is very "fluffy." You don't neccessarily hear anything anti calvinist because you're not really hearing anything...if that makes sense. And when I say they're calvinists, I mean that they believe in the sovereignty of God. I'm not sure they've taken teh implications of that very far.


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## LawrenceU (Mar 25, 2010)

Someone called? 

For context: I served as a pastor in the A/G for a bit over five years. I was a Reformed Baptist prior to serving that congregation. They were aware of my convictions prior to my being called to the church. It is a long story how the Lord led me to that congregation, much more than I can or should relate here.

There are Calvinistic folks in the A/G, especially among the younger ministers. There is a consistent aspect to these folks becoming Calvinistic, usually. They become exposed to the doctrines of grace through teaching a Passion conferences, John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Sovereign Grace Ministries (particularly their music), and such. The shallow nature of the normal A/G teaching and preaching is driving many younger men to begin serious study of the Word. We should pray for the A/G and for those men in particular.

There is also a concerted effort to rid the fellowship of them in many districts (states). Interestingly their dismissal is almost never said to be because of doctrinal 'error'. It is almost always couched in an eccesiological or practical ministry context. Almost all of the men I know who were dismissed because of their doctrinal positions did not find out until after the fact that that was the real reason. 

Most of them fly well under the radar and the Lord has been doing some interesting work in those congregations.


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 25, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> Someone called?
> 
> For context: I served as a pastor in the A/G for a bit over five years. I was a Reformed Baptist prior to serving that congregation. They were aware of my convictions prior to my being called to the church. It is a long story how the Lord led me to that congregation, much more than I can or should relate here.
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> ...


 
How did you deal with people who thought they were speaking in tongues?


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## LawrenceU (Mar 25, 2010)

DD2009 said:


> LawrenceU said:
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> > Someone called?
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Same thing I do with any situation, take them to Scripture.


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 25, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> DD2009 said:
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What in particular did you show them in the scriptures that would convince them that tongues have ceased?


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## Scott1 (Mar 25, 2010)

Part of the difficulty in not having a confession of faith is that beliefs are not defined as a basis for unity, discipline or accountability. It is based on what a particular leader thinks at a particular point in time.

This denomination is Arminian influenced, explicitly and implicitly, dispensational, and has a "low" view of the church, a "low" view of the sacraments, teaches that special revelation comes outside of Scripture as an ordinary means, etc.

For many years when I served in a similar denomination, I leaned "Calvinist," but since soteriology was never systematically taught, let alone the doctrines of grace, there was no way to grow in it or actualize it in faith or practice. The implicit assumption, according to the flesh, is that worship, prayer, salvation, etc. is primarily about us (not centered on God as is reformed theology, every aspect of it).

When the doctrines of grace were explained, debated, taught authoritatively and practiced, it overwhelmingly, quickly made sense.


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## LawrenceU (Mar 25, 2010)

DD2009 said:


> LawrenceU said:
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I did not have to. I showed and taught that what is experienced today and called 'tongues' is not what the Scriptures display as 'tongues'.


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## dannyhyde (Mar 25, 2010)

I went to Southern California College (now Vanguard University) in Costa Mesa, CA, on a basketball scholarship. While there, I had to take a required course in AG doctrine. My professor, the Rev. Ronald Wright, was an AG minister *and* a 5-pointer. God brought him into my life to bring me to the Reformed faith. Dr Julius Kim of Westminster Seminary California was also mentored and led by Rev. Wright while he too was as SCC.


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## Osage Bluestem (Mar 25, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> DD2009 said:
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Do you believe that scripture teaches that tongues were when christians spoke to people in languages that they didn't know but the other could understand. For instance imagine a Japanese man was standing in Antioch listening to Paul. Paul was speaking Greek but the Japanese heard Japanese? Is that what tongues really are? It's not just incoherant babbling?


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## Puritan Sailor (Mar 25, 2010)

I was raised in the A/G and remained until I turned 20, when I became Reformed. My particular church was very anti-calvinistic, but I didn't know it until I became one. But, thankfully, my youth pastor and music pastor encouraged me to read and study my Bible alot, which in spite of their Arminianism, turned my into a Calvinist


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## Skyler (Mar 25, 2010)

DD2009 said:


> LawrenceU said:
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That's what "tongues" are described as in Acts. I don't see any reason to suppose that Paul's "tongues" are different from Luke's.

Though this might be derailing the thread. It might be best to create a new one?


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## Jared (Mar 25, 2010)

> There are Calvinistic folks in the A/G, especially among the younger ministers. There is a consistent aspect to these folks becoming Calvinistic, usually. They become exposed to the doctrines of grace through teaching a Passion conferences, John Piper, Wayne Grudem, Sovereign Grace Ministries (particularly their music), and such. The shallow nature of the normal A/G teaching and preaching is driving many younger men to begin serious study of the Word.



This was my experience, almost in complete detail. I bought Wayne Grudem's Systematic Theology, read John Piper's book, The Pleasures of God, and eventually started listening to Sovereign Grace Music. And a lot of it started with the Passion movement and the Vineyard because of Grudem's previous involvement with them.


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## Jared (Mar 26, 2010)

This may actually constitute another thread, and I'm sure that this question has been raised before. But, since someone asked me this in a visitor's message and it directly relates to the current topic, I'm going to go ahead and post it here, then I might post a separate thread.

The question was whether or not the Assemblies of God is a true church. I said that it depends on your view of Arminianism. If you believe that Arminians can be saved, then I would say yes, it's a true church. But if you don't believe they can be saved, then no.

I have had some painful discussions with my brother, where I basically told him that I didn't know. The problem that I have is that if you don't believe in unconditional election, then it would seem (logically at least) that from your perspective, you were at least in some sense earning your salvation.


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## reformedminister (Mar 26, 2010)

Before I embraced Reformed Theology I graduated from the Assemblies of God Theological Seminary. I never was AG. During my studies I was a United Methodist pastor. Anyway, theologically the AG is not calvinistic at all, as most of you know. However, like all denominations there are individuals within that do not entirely agree with their denominational positions. I have met several. I once met a Southern Baptist pastor who did not believe in the doctrine the perseverance of the saints. I also knew a United Methodist pastor who thought infant baptism and sprinkling were unbiblical. How he managed that one I will never know?


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## LawrenceU (Mar 26, 2010)

As an aside: I can almost guarantee you that Springfield is reading this thread.


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## Scott1 (Mar 26, 2010)

And, for those following,

There are certainly brothers and sisters in Christ in the denomination.

There may even be a few who are greatly mismatched with their denominations beliefs and practices (which are man-centered salvation, dispensational, and no binding confession of faith, a memorial view of the sacraments, etc.). The latter leads to much disorder in their communions.

We pray only that God the Holy Spirit will illuminate His people's understanding of the truths of His salvation, covenant, analogy of faith in His Word, spiritual presence in sacrament, etc.- for His Honor and His Glory!)


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## Puritan Sailor (Mar 26, 2010)

LawrenceU said:


> As an aside: I can almost guarantee you that Springfield is reading this thread.


 
Why do you say that? Just curious.


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## Jake (Mar 28, 2010)

Well I can say from my experience of knowing people in the denomination that some of the strongest Christians I know are in that denomination. They may not be the most learned, but many of the Christians I fellowship with at school are from various AG churches around here and tend to know more of the Bible and pursue holiness, etc. more than most people that call themselves Christians.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Mar 28, 2010)

How are the AoG Christian Schools? We are considering a AoG Christian School (primarily for financial reasons) for our oldest youngin'... Going to an Open House Tuesday.


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