# Overture to PCA GA Promoting Women Deacons



## Bill Duncan (Mar 14, 2019)

Metro New York Presbytery Overtures 47th PCA GA To Allow Women to Be Ordained As Deacons
https://www.theaquilareport.com/met...-ga-to-allow-women-to-be-ordained-as-deacons/

It appears that the theology behind this overture is that the Deacon is not an ordained office.
This was certainly the position of our Scot forefathers. Who went wrong?


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## earl40 (Mar 14, 2019)

Not knowing how this gets past Presbytery. I am asking does this rise to the GA by a majority vote at the Presbytery?


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## BGF (Mar 14, 2019)

If the theology behind it is that the deacon is not an _ordained _office, why would they seek _ordination?_

Reactions: Like 2


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## Bill Duncan (Mar 14, 2019)

earl40 said:


> Not knowing how this gets past Presbytery. I am asking does this rise to the GA by a majority vote at the Presbytery?


Yes.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Bill Duncan (Mar 14, 2019)

BGF said:


> If the theology behind it is that the deacon is not an _ordained _office, why would they seek _ordination?_


The overture promotes taking all of the ordination language away by striking "deacon" from BCO ordination sections among other changes.


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## BGF (Mar 14, 2019)

My question was prompted by sloppy reading on my part. I missed the "not" in your sentence. Sorry for the confusion.


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## iainduguid (Mar 14, 2019)

Bill Duncan said:


> The overture promotes taking all of the ordination language away by striking "deacon" from BCO ordination sections among other changes.


I don't think this is correct. It takes away deacon in chapter 24, but only to relocate it in a new chapter 25 "Election, Ordination and Installation of Deacons". In that chapter it seems clear that deacons (both male and female) would be ordained.

Reactions: Like 3


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## Bill Duncan (Mar 14, 2019)

iainduguid said:


> I don't think this is correct. It takes away deacon in chapter 24, but only to relocate it in a new chapter 25 "Election, Ordination and Installation of Deacons". In that chapter it seems clear that deacons (both male and female) would be ordained.


You are right. Should I retract the post?


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## earl40 (Mar 14, 2019)

Is Acts 6 not simple enough to dispel any thought of this subject? Here we have "men" to be installed by Pastors "We will turn this responsibility".

“It would not be right for us to neglect the ministry of the word of in order to wait on tables. Brothers and sisters, choose seven *men* from among you who are known to be full of the Spirit and wisdom. *We will turn this responsibility* over to them and will give our attention to prayer and the ministry of the word.”

Reactions: Like 2


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## hammondjones (Mar 14, 2019)

Better to have an honest and straightforward debate and vote than to continue the current state.

Reactions: Like 2


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Mar 14, 2019)

Bill Duncan said:


> Metro New York Presbytery Overtures 47th PCA GA To Allow Women to Be Ordained As Deacons
> https://www.theaquilareport.com/met...-ga-to-allow-women-to-be-ordained-as-deacons/
> 
> It appears that the theology behind this overture is that the Deacon is not an ordained office.
> This was certainly the position of our Scot forefathers. Who went wrong?


So what does this mean simply? I'm a part of the PCA.


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## earl40 (Mar 14, 2019)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> So what does this mean simply? I'm a part of the PCA.



Well a majority of that Presbytery thinks the issue must be considered, and in my opinion this issue should have been shot down at the local church level, even before it got to the higher court. I see this as a layman, and am disappointed how our elders are acting by allowing this issue to go forth.

In my most humble opinion it is simply a matter of time till the PCA allows lady deacons. I may die before this happens, but I am confident it is coming, if history has taught me anything.

Reactions: Like 1 | Sad 1


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## Hamalas (Mar 14, 2019)

hammondjones said:


> Better to have an honest and straightforward debate and vote than to continue the current state.



Agreed. It's time to draw some lines in the sand.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Edward (Mar 14, 2019)

Full text of the overture here: https://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/Overture-29-Metro-New-York-BCO-re-deacons.pdf


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## De Jager (Mar 14, 2019)

My understanding is as follows (_please let me know if this is incorrect_): There are deacons, and then there are deacons.

The word transliterated as "deacon" is from the Greek word diakonos which simply means "servant". The Bible lists both men and women as servants, using the word diakonos.

However, the Bible also speaks of special "diakonos" in Acts 6 and 1 Timothy, who are selected to be servant-leaders in the church. 1 Timothy pretty clearly teaches that these servant leaders are to be men.

Therefore, while a woman can and should be a servant in the church, she cannot hold the position of leadership among the servants, which is reserved for qualified men, in keeping with the principle of male/female headship evident throughout scripture.

A woman can do "deacon things" like distribute alms, take collections, etc. but should be under the leadership of a deacon when she does them.


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Mar 14, 2019)

I'm confused as I thought this issue was just rejected at the previous GA?


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## Edward (Mar 14, 2019)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> I'm confused as I thought this issue was just rejected at the previous GA?



Liberals keep coming at an issue until they win once, then it is settled for all time. And they move on to the next issue on their agenda. If they lose this year, they might bide their time for a couple of years, but they will be back.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## Tom Hart (Mar 14, 2019)

Edward said:


> Liberals keep coming at an issue until they win once, then it is settled for all time. And they move on to the next issue on their agenda. If they lose this year, they might bide their time for a couple of years, but they will be back.



History has borne this out more than once.

My experience in the Presbyterian Church in Canada is the same, only there things are much further along. These days it's same-sex marriage and ordination of homosexuals. It hasn't passed yet, but the liberals have a go every couple of years, and the same people are always yammering on about it in the intervals.

Reactions: Informative 1


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## De Jager (Mar 14, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> History has borne this out more than once.
> 
> My experience in the Presbyterian Church in Canada is the same, only there things are much further along. These days it's same-sex marriage and ordination of homosexuals. It hasn't passed yet, but the liberals have a go every couple of years, and the same people are always yammering on about it in the intervals.



I spent a few years in the PCC as a child. We left when the minister told my dad that there were many ways to get to heaven.


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## Tom Hart (Mar 15, 2019)

De Jager said:


> I spent a few years in the PCC as a child. We left when the minister told my dad that there were many ways to get to heaven.



The PCC is going, and has mostly gone, the way of the United Church of Canada. It's almost as though it's a competition to see which denomination can bleed out fastest.


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## De Jager (Mar 15, 2019)

Tom Hart said:


> The PCC is going, and has mostly gone, the way of the United Church of Canada. It's almost as though it's a competition to see which denomination can bleed out fastest.



It is true, and yet there are still faithful congregations within both. They are in the minority though. It's just sad.


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## toddpedlar (Mar 15, 2019)

earl40 said:


> Not knowing how this gets past Presbytery. I am asking does this rise to the GA by a majority vote at the Presbytery?



In part, Earl, the reason this got past Presbytery because in the Presbytery it came from, this has been the practice of many (if not most) of the churches. Shouldn't really be too much of a surprise this passed Presbytery - just look at the last 25 years of practice of Redeemer and its daughter churches (which make up much of Metro NYC presbytery) and consider the influence Redeemer has had over them. They've been ordaining women to the office of deaconness (ok, they said "commissioning" so that they abided by the letter of the law, but their "commissioning" vows were essentially identical to the ordination vows male deacons took) since at least 1994 when I was present for an ordination service there at Redeemer. 

It's frankly surprising to me that they took this long to formally propose these changes.

Reactions: Like 1


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