# The OTHER Matt. 16:18 debate



## DanielC (Jun 12, 2004)

Jesus is the rock. No questioning from me there.

But its later on in the verse &quot;and the gates of Hades will not overcome it&quot; that I want to hear some opinions on.

Interpretations:
1. Gates are defensive. That means the church is attacking! Gather round, ye transformationalists, and charge! We're going to lay seige to Hell!
This is the interpretation I hear all the time. It's not mine.

2. Hades means place of death (i.e. the grave). By this, Jesus means that by virtue of union with Himself, He will so fill the church with unconquerable life that death will be unable to hold us (like Christ Himself) in its power, and we will be raised to the felicity of heaven. That's my interpretation, which I think Vos helped me with.

What do you think?


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## Ianterrell (Jun 12, 2004)

Interesting. Your interpretation sounds pretty good actually, though I was leaning more to the first. But then they're also is the refrerences in the context to the yeast of the Pharisees and then talk of church discipline (binding and loosing). So maybe there is a connection in with the &quot;apostolic succession&quot; argument and the gates of hell controversy. In either sense the church leadership prevailing rather than the kingdom of darkness, the seed of satan. Either the gates of hell cannot contain the church because of the eldership, or the church is literally advancing against the enemy.


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## andreas (Jun 13, 2004)

&lt;&lt;&lt;But its later on in the verse &quot;and the gates of Hades will not overcome it&quot; that I want to hear some opinions on. &gt;&gt;&gt;

Isa.55:11,-my word shall not return unto me void.
Romans10:8-10 -the gospel will convert those who hear and believe.
Eph.2:20 -Jesus the chief cornerstone. 
Rev 5:12 -the church will ultimately reign.
Matt.16:18-the gates of hell shall not overcome it,

All affirm the enduring permanence of the church.We are also told in Rev. 6:2 ,about the white horse and rider going forth conquering and to conquer,so the church is mounting the offense.We have two types of weapons,offensive and defensive.A sword is an example of an offensive weapon.Now what kind of weapon is a gate?A gate is part of a wall and a wall is a defensive weapon.You can not have a gate without a wall,they complement each other,and if the wall is defensive so is the gate.The key to Matthew 16:18, is the statement by Peter, that Christ is the Messiah,and it is upon this statement,that the church will be build and nothing can stop it.The church will overcome any defense against it,knocking down the gates,and the reason that the gates are being knocked down ,is because there is no one manning the gates.They are defeated,disarmed,made a public spectacle,by the cross. Col.2:15.The church began with a handful of apostles and grew rapidly ,Acts 2:41,The Lord added to their number daily ,Acts 2:47,and the gospel was preached to the whole world Rom10:18, 2 Tim.4:17.Now to me, nothing can expand, if it assumes a defensive stand.You expand only by being on the offensive.The enemy is the one in the fortified city,and the church is the invader.1 Cor.10:3-5
andreas.


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## JohnStevenson (Jun 16, 2004)

[quote:2eaf1cd20f][i:2eaf1cd20f]Originally posted by DanielC[/i:2eaf1cd20f]
2. Hades means place of death (i.e. the grave). [/quote:2eaf1cd20f]
While I am not sure that these two views are necessarily mutually exclusive, the point should be made that when Jesus speaks of &quot;the gates of hell,&quot; he is using an Old Testament idiom. It is a figure of speech that is found in Isaiah 38:10 where Hezekiah finds out that his life is in danger of being cut short and he says, &quot;In the middle of my life I am to enter the gates of Sheol; I am to be deprived of the rest of my years.&quot;

This underscores the idea of the resurrection that you mentioned.


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## raderag (Jun 16, 2004)

[quote:fbd6ec2b46][i:fbd6ec2b46]Originally posted by JohnStevenson[/i:fbd6ec2b46]
[quote:fbd6ec2b46][i:fbd6ec2b46]Originally posted by DanielC[/i:fbd6ec2b46]
2. Hades means place of death (i.e. the grave). [/quote:fbd6ec2b46]
While I am not sure that these two views are necessarily mutually exclusive, the point should be made that when Jesus speaks of &quot;the gates of hell,&quot; he is using an Old Testament idiom. It is a figure of speech that is found in Isaiah 38:10 where Hezekiah finds out that his life is in danger of being cut short and he says, &quot;In the middle of my life I am to enter the gates of Sheol; I am to be deprived of the rest of my years.&quot;

This underscores the idea of the resurrection that you mentioned. [/quote:fbd6ec2b46]

Howdy John,

I think I remember you from CARM.


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## raderag (Jun 16, 2004)

*Calvin's commentary.*

Here is what Calvin said about it.

[quote:ec2f62e241]It is a promise which eminently deserves our observation, that all who are united to Christ, and acknowledge him to be Christ and Mediator, will remain to the end safe from all danger; for what is said of the body of the Church belongs to each of its members, since they are one in Christ. Yet this passage also instructs us, that so long as the Church shall continue to be a pilgrim on the earth, she will never enjoy rest, but will be exposed to many attacks; for, when it is declared that Satan will not conquer, this implies that he will be her constant enemy. While, therefore, we rely on this promise of Christ, feel ourselves at liberty to boast against Satan, and already triumph by faith over all his forces; let us learn, on the other hand, that this promise is, as it were, the sound of a trumpet, calling us to be always ready and prepared for battle. By the word gates (pu&gt;lai) is unquestionably meant every kind of power and of weapons of war.

-- From Calvin's Commentarires, the Harmony of The Gospels.
[/quote:ec2f62e241]

http://www.ccel.org/c/calvin/comment3/comm_vol32/htm/liii.htm


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