# Visiting a United Methodist Church Tomorrow



## BibleCyst (Apr 30, 2011)

Good evening, everybody!

Just to clarify the title of this thread - I do not have any plans on leaving my current church (PCA). I love the people, and I love Reformed Theology. So, why on Earth am I visiting a United Methodist Church tomorrow?

I've been dating a United Methodist. There. The cat's out of the bag. She's a genuine Christian, and she loves the Lord very much. She actually grew up in the EPC, and I get the feeling that she's more broadly evangelical then anything else. She's fine with where I go to church, but I cannot move forward with her until I make sure that her church is not apostate. From my initial research, it has all male Pastors. If there was even one female Pastor, I wouldn't even be visiting.

The purpose of posting this thread is: I was wondering if you guys could fill me in on any oddities that might be in a regular Methodist service? I do know that Methodists have a thing for waving flags. Other then that, I'm in the dark.

I'll be sure to post a follow up on Monday with what it was actually like, in case any are curious about what's going on in mainline denominations. I'll be sure to bring my trusted King James in case anybody pulls out a NRSV.


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## Notthemama1984 (Apr 30, 2011)

I would assume different churches do things differently. Why not just ask the gf?


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## BibleCyst (Apr 30, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> I would assume different churches do things differently. Why not just ask the gf?


 
I have asked, and from her descriptions, it sounds VERY broadly evangelical. But, I've never been to a UMC church in my life*, so I have no idea what their distinctive traits are.

*Edit: Now that I think about it, I actually did go to one when I was very young. I wasn't paying attention to distinctives or RPW violations then, though. lol


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## Notthemama1984 (Apr 30, 2011)

I am confused. Are you looking for things like when to stand up, when to sit down, when to take communion, or are you asking about things theologically?


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## Osage Bluestem (Apr 30, 2011)

United Methodists are Arminian. They are all Wesleyan.


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## Edward (Apr 30, 2011)

Unlike the Presbyterians and the Episcopalians, the Methodists didn't really have anywhere to go. So you can probably find a wider range in the UMC than you would in some of the other mainlines. That being said, even the 'good' UMCs have unsound theology. There's also a range of worship styles. Most of the ones that I have visited have been liturgical; expect a shorter sermon that you should have been getting at your church - more of a homily. They can be somewhat legalistic. 

Probably no harm from a one-off visit, but you shouldn't make a habit of it.


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## Dearly Bought (Apr 30, 2011)

My wife grew up in the UMC and I'm pretty familiar myself with mainline denominations, having come out of the ABC-USA. There isn't necessarily going to be "a regular Methodist service." In my wife's neck of the woods, Methodist services look like Southern Baptist services, except maybe with a "Holy Spirit" candle.

Richard, I would challenge you to think very hard about the apostasy of the United Methodist Church. The hierarchical/episcopal structure of the UMC means that congregations are required to pay "apportionments" to the denomination. As just one example, these monies fund a Methodist seminary which is now endeavouring to become "the first truly multi-faith American seminary" (link). You can find more information on the activities of the UMC here. Is it possible for a congregation to fund such things without participating in their apostasy?

Even at a congregational level, you're going to encounter serious departures from Biblical teaching. Worship is not conducted accorded to God's Word, with numerous man-made additions. The United Methodist Church is confessionally Arminian and the preaching/teaching will be at least Arminian, if not universalist at times.

As Paul teaches in Romans 1, the embrace of homosexuality in a culture is ultimately a sign of God's judgment; the unbelief/apostasy has already occurred. As we see mainline churches such as the UMC locked in struggles over homosexual ordination, it is evident that they departed from God's truth long ago. The UMC and her constituent congregations are false churches and should be fled by faithful Christians.


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## Calvinist of the Ozarks (Apr 30, 2011)

I was in a United Methodist Church for most of my life. It is a denomination that is apostate. They give a HUGE amount of money to aid in the fight to keep abortion legal and support gay rights. Many in the denomination are Pantheist, and that includes some Pastors. They are madly in love with the feminist movement, much more so than they love Jesus. Their new hymn book has songs praising mother-god and nature worship. Most of their Pastors don't believe in hell. They are anti-reformed in every way that you can imagine.

My church was a small town church with about 25 elderly people. They put their money in the plate every Sunday and had no idea what that money was going to support. I did try to tell them what their money was supporting before I finally left, they would not believe it, because it is all so CRAZY, they just couldn't believe it.

They adore Brian McLaren and the emergent church.

They had an online free bible study last year that encouraged sex outside of marriage for everyone including Pastors. Yes, you read that right. And all of this is just the tip of the iceberg. 

The final straw for me was last year when they began teaching Islam at Claremont Seminary in California. The Methodist Church gives Claremont $800,000 a year. This year they added Buddhism and Hinduism. A Denver, Colorado Methodist Church has a service which combines Christianity with Buddhism into one faith.

Cool, huh?


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## torstar (Apr 30, 2011)

But love is in the air...


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## Notthemama1984 (Apr 30, 2011)

Is there another Methodist denom besides UMC, because what everyone is describing does not sound like the local Methodists around here. Also when I lived in Georgia, I went to a Methodist church for nearly two years. I chose that church because the pastor was the only guy in town who would bring from the pulpit.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 30, 2011)

It sounds like nearly all the Methodists I know.


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## Berean (Apr 30, 2011)

Open Hearts, Open Minds...


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## Marrow Man (Apr 30, 2011)

torstar said:


> But love is in the air...



[video=youtube;P2-VGDF4y18]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2-VGDF4y18[/video]


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## Edward (Apr 30, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Is there another Methodist denom besides UMC



There is the tiny Southern Methodist Church (the whole denomination claims to be slightly larger than the PCA church where I'm a member.)

Then, of course, there is the AME, AME Zion, CME (they've changed what the C stands for) but I think you'd have been noticeable in any of those 3. 

And a little clicking on the internet turned up the Free Methodists.


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## torstar (Apr 30, 2011)

Thanks Tim:

That song never fails to get the reaction that the guilty parties are intending.

That cover version would work just fine.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 30, 2011)

torstar said:


> That cover version would work just fine.



Anything by Tom Jones works.


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## reformedminister (Apr 30, 2011)

There are at least five different Methodist groups that I know of here in the U. S., the UMC being the largest. I was raised and pastored in the UMC. As far as the rural churches go, UMC is just a title and there is little difference compared to other rural churches. In the city there as as much adversity as you may find in the PCA, except you may find a few gay friendly folk. Many of the city churches are more traditional and similar to traditonal Presbyterian churches across the board, some evangelical preaching and some apostate. The UMC is a mixed bunch!


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## Martin (Apr 30, 2011)

As a current UMC member, you are bound to find anything from liturgical high church to contemporary, depending on which congregation you walk into. Some churches have both kinds of services. The church I attend is a country church and it is conservative. I have never heard of this flag waving?


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## Quatchu (Apr 30, 2011)

The Free Methodist Church is what i think of after UMC. They are definitely more conservative.


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## N. Eshelman (May 1, 2011)

I was raised United Methodist. Social Gospel. Gay Agenda. Feminist. The whole nine yards. 


Have fun.


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## Whitefield (May 1, 2011)

I'm stunned at some of the broad generalization and wholesale condemnation. I think some are speaking from hear-say and not their own research.

You might even find a CALVINIST in the pulpit this morning preaching in a United Methodist Church.


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## toddpedlar (May 1, 2011)

Eric said:


> As a current UMC member, you are bound to find anything from liturgical high church to contemporary, depending on which congregation you walk into. Some churches have both kinds of services. The church I attend is a country church and it is conservative. I have never heard of this flag waving?


 

What's being referred to is something you may not experience in your own congregation or elsewhere, but the question could be answered in two ways 1) what's at the front of the sanctuary? Have you an American flag (and a "Christian" flag) at the front, in the corners? 2) Does your hymn selection for services near or on July 4 contain The Battle Hymn of the Republic, America, or God Bless America? 

In the rural UMC churches I know of, both of these questions would be answered with a resounding "yes". THAT is at least part of the "flag-waving" sentiment that was described.


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## Calvinist of the Ozarks (May 1, 2011)

It's not hearsay. BUT, you can attend a UMC for years and be unaware of the craziness if you are in a church with older members and a more traditional pastor.
If you get to reading some of the official websites (UMC Reconciling Ministries and UMC Board of Church and Society are 2 good ones) and check to see what kinds of causes they are spending UMC money on you will be enlightened. Unhappily so I might add.

The UMC Board of Church and Society had a study on their website about a year ago called "Sex and the Church" that had some of the most pagan writing you can imagine. You would think it had been put on the homepage of the cult of Isis.


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## Andres (May 1, 2011)

BibleCyst said:


> I've been dating a United Methodist. There. The cat's out of the bag. She's a genuine Christian, and she loves the Lord very much. She actually grew up in the EPC, and I get the feeling that she's more broadly evangelical then anything else. *She's fine with where I go to church*, but I cannot move forward with her until I make sure that her church is not apostate.



Then why doesn't she go to church with you?


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## Martin (May 1, 2011)

Oh, yes I know what you are talking about now. Yes to both of the questions.


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## Edward (May 1, 2011)

Quatchu said:


> The Free Methodist Church is what i think of after UMC. They are definitely more conservative.



That brings to mind. This year is the 100th anniversary of the decision of the Free Methodists to ordain women. But 'more conservative' does appear to be accurate in the comparative sense.


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## Steve Curtis (May 1, 2011)

toddpedlar said:


> 1) what's at the front of the sanctuary? Have you an American flag (and a "Christian" flag) at the front, in the corners? 2) Does your hymn selection for services near or on July 4 contain The Battle Hymn of the Republic, America, or God Bless America?
> 
> In the rural UMC churches I know of, both of these questions would be answered with a resounding "yes". THAT is at least part of the "flag-waving" sentiment that was described.



This may be true of many UMC churches, but it is also true of LOTS of churches in the rural south, irrespective of denominational affiliation.


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## toddpedlar (May 1, 2011)

kainos01 said:


> toddpedlar said:
> 
> 
> > 1) what's at the front of the sanctuary? Have you an American flag (and a "Christian" flag) at the front, in the corners? 2) Does your hymn selection for services near or on July 4 contain The Battle Hymn of the Republic, America, or God Bless America?
> ...


 
Certainly that's the case.... no denominational distinctions were implied (was just explaining flag waving as a concept). (and it's an abysmal practice regardless of the affiliation)


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## Bill The Baptist (May 1, 2011)

This video pretty much sums up the problem with Methodist theology. Fast foward to around the 2:45 mark to hear the words of "wisdom" from a Methodist bishop.

YouTube - John MacArthur Explaing the TRUE Gospel


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## DMcFadden (May 1, 2011)

The UMC guy in my town is vintage "open to all people as an expression of Christian love" kind of person. While the national image is just as odiously mainline as some of the posts have suggested, I have known very strongly evangelical (but not Reformed) UMC pastors, especially in some parts of the south. They are the strongest mainline denomination numerically (almost 8 million), so it would be almost impossible to predict what you will find in your gf's fellowship.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 1, 2011)

DMcFadden said:


> They are the strongest mainline denomination numerically (almost 8 million)



The SBC is much larger.


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## Bill The Baptist (May 1, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> The SBC is much larger



The SBC is not considered mainline. That would be Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Episcopal.


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## Notthemama1984 (May 1, 2011)

Oh I assumed they were mainline. That shows what I know.


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## Jack K (May 1, 2011)

BibleCyst said:


> I've been dating a United Methodist.



Then it's good you decided to visit her church with her. It ought to help you two engage in many important and necessary discussions about faith, no matter how good or bad you found the church to be.

As previous posts have mentioned, there will be many concerns with the vast majority of Methodist congregations in the US. But if you've been a Presbyterian I would think you found the Methodists not too weird style-wise. I wouldn't attend one regularly, but occasionally I visit a Methodist church with my in-laws. When I do, I remind myself that it is, after all, the church of the Wesleys. This means that when the pastor strays from the gospel it isn't me, but rather him, who is out of place.


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## dudley (May 1, 2011)

BibleCyst said:


> Good evening, everybody!
> 
> Just to clarify the title of this thread - I do not have any plans on leaving my current church (PCA). I love the people, and I love Reformed Theology. So, why on Earth am I visiting a United Methodist Church tomorrow?
> 
> ...



After I left the Roman Catholic church I explored all the major Protestant denominations...I knew I would become aProtestant ....but needed to know the theolgy of each group and how they worshipped. I was Episcapalian for a while , then Lutheran , then Methodist , explored the Baptsits and finally settled in and became a Presbyterian. So I can give yousome idea.

As a fellow Presbyterian you know our theology as Presbyterians is Reformed theology and emphasizes the sovereignty of God, the authority of the Scriptures, and the necessity of grace through faith in Christ. The driving principle in the development of the standards of Presbyterian worship is the Regulative principle of worship, which specifies that (in worship), what is not commanded is forbidden. In the United Methodist church I explored grape juice is used instead of wine and the Methodists belikeve pretty much as we do as Presbyterians that the sacrament is Memorialism. They do say it represents Christ sacrifice on calvary but they do not believe as the Roman catholics do the false teaching that the bread actully becomes Christs body. A typical worship service at a United Methodist church may include a greeting and opening prayer, time for people to greet each other, scripture readings, silent prayer and meditation, an offering, the Lord’s Prayer,( theu do not say Debts and debtors as we Presbyterians do) sometimes there is a children’s message, then the sermon, special music and hymns, and a closing prayer. Communion may also be served. They have an open communion table and I was welcomed to receive communion with them the very first Sunday explored the Methodist churc.All are invited to celebrate communion, but you can choose whether or not you wish to participate.


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## SRoper (May 1, 2011)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > The SBC is much larger
> ...


 
Or more to the point, the American Baptist Churches USA is the mainline baptist denomination.


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## BenjaminBurton (May 1, 2011)

I attended a UMC while in middle/high school with a friend of mine. I don't remember too much of what was said, mostly because there wasn't much being said. The church's minister was a woman, there was small choir where members often held little American flags for some reason, there was an encouraging children's bit, special music, a sort of homily, and at the end of the service we sang "Let There be Peace on Earth and Let it Begin With Me." Still don't understand that last one, but I distinctly remember attending their youth group multiple times and understanding that the lady who often lead the teaching times had no clue what she was talking about. They were evangelistic but there were multiple openly gay students from my high school who attended there with no repercussion. And, as mentioned before, there were extreme feminist overtones. 

Be wise, brother.


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## SRoper (May 1, 2011)

Calvinist of the Ozarks said:


> It's not hearsay. BUT, you can attend a UMC for years and be unaware of the craziness if you are in a church with older members and a more traditional pastor.
> If you get to reading some of the official websites (UMC Reconciling Ministries and UMC Board of Church and Society are 2 good ones) and check to see what kinds of causes they are spending UMC money on you will be enlightened. Unhappily so I might add.
> 
> The UMC Board of Church and Society had a study on their website about a year ago called "Sex and the Church" that had some of the most pagan writing you can imagine. You would think it had been put on the homepage of the cult of Isis.


 
Wow. I just looked up what you were talking about in your posts. Wow. Just an unintentionally funny excerpt:



> Jesus opened up so much passionate power that the late first- and early second-century church, as seen in the writings of Paul and Timothy, had to wrap it all up again to shut women up, make sure they sat down and for God’s sake, kept their sensuous hair covered.



What writings of Timothy do we have?


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## dudley (May 1, 2011)

I would strongly urge you to guide your Girlfriend in to the reformed faith and as a presbyterian I would seek to evangelize and convert her to Prebyterainism. i would suggest you have her join an inguirers class at your PCA churc.There are also many good books and articles on "Why I became a Presbyterian" and what be a Presbyterian or Becoming a Presbyterian that I mentioned the other night. They can be found and down loaded on line.


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## torstar (May 1, 2011)

SRoper said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Chaplainintraining said:
> ...


 

Just curious, what % of the SBC is truly mainline? I know the good guys have commandeered the majority of the votes, thankfully, for a good period of time.


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## TomVols (May 1, 2011)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Is there another Methodist denom besides UMC, because what everyone is describing does not sound like the local Methodists around here. Also when I lived in Georgia, I went to a Methodist church for nearly two years. I chose that church because the pastor was the only guy in town who would bring from the pulpit.


 
I'm with you. I know more evangelical UMCs than I know evangelical Baptists. The ones I know are broadly Wesleyan, but then again, no moreso than the avg Baptist church. 
Claremont does not receive apportionments from the denom for use in that program they started, btw, That was squelched last year in an uproar from conservative UMCs. From what I gather, there is a huge movement afoot similar to what happened in the SBC years ago (the 'Conservative Resurgence'). 

I join with Whitefield in that I'm stunned so many paint with a broad brush.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (May 1, 2011)

I have lived in Pittsburgh, PA, Portsmouth, OH, Clarksburg, WV, and now Ellisville, MS in the last 10 years. Every single UMC church in these areas that I was intimately involved with was liberal. 

The local UMC Pastor here in Ellisville is pro-Gay Ordination, etc. 

Maybe there are "conservative" UMC people out there, I just don't know any.


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## Andres (May 1, 2011)

dudley said:


> I would strongly urge you to guide your Girlfriend in to the reformed faith and as a presbyterian I would seek to evangelize and convert her to Prebyterainism


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## torstar (May 1, 2011)

Andres said:


> dudley said:
> 
> 
> > I would strongly urge you to guide your Girlfriend in to the reformed faith and as a presbyterian I would seek to evangelize and convert her to Prebyterainism


 

Gotta take control of the situation when frolicking with the maidens.

It can be tough...


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## Martin (May 1, 2011)

I was viewing some of the websites mention before which I navigated to this page from: Homophobia and Heterosexism | The General Board of Church and Society I had no idea that the UMC was doing all of this. I knew it was liberal, but was blind to how much. Maybe its time I begin to seriously look into finding somewhere else to attend.

---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------

Introduction

Marriage is, essentially, a question of pastoral care. The church is called by God to support and bless the loving, lifelong commitment of two same-gender people as with any other family and loving commitment. Current United Methodist policy forbids marriages or Holy Unions in United Methodists buildings or by any United Methodist clergy person. Reconciling congregations have found a variety of responses to the question, how will we support and honor the loving commitment of same-gender couples? Congregations might:

* Invite gay and lesbian couples to reaffirm their vows in a church service;
* Hold no marriages in the church and ask the pastor to refrain from conducting marriages;
* Conduct marriages and Holy Unions accepting the risk of charges by the Annual Conference;
* Focus upon legislative and advocacy to change UMC policies
* Advocate for civil marriage and/or civil union equality
* Pass a marriage policy or statement of support for equality.

This list if from the Reconciling Ministries Network page. I had no idea it was this bad.


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## Whitefield (May 2, 2011)

Eric said:


> I was viewing some of the websites mention before which I navigated to this page from: Homophobia and Heterosexism | The General Board of Church and Society I had no idea that the UMC was doing all of this. I knew it was liberal, but was blind to how much. Maybe its time I begin to seriously look into finding somewhere else to attend.
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:55 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:44 PM ----------
> 
> ...


 
If you will do your homework, you will find out that The Reconciling Ministries Network is NOT an official organization within the UMC. It is an ultra-liberal caucus which has been repeatedly opposed by the General Conference. In fact, some were arrested at the last General Conference for disruption and trespassing. There is a fundamental battle going on in UMC, and stereotyping by any group is not helpful, especially to the conservative side. The Board on Church and Society is not taken very seriously by the mainstream in the UMC. That Board has been on the extreme left for many decades, and they have continually gone beyond their mandate given by the General Conference. That Board has gone through some radical budgetary cuts due to de-funding of much of what they advocate. At the past couple of General Conferences there has been a growing movement to disband the Board of Church and Society.


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## DMcFadden (May 2, 2011)

torstar said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> > Bill The Baptist said:
> ...


 
Are you asking what percentage of the SBC is liberal in orientation? The term "mainline" is a term of art for the original "seven sisters" that represented "respectable" Protestantism in the early to middle portion of the last century: ABCUSA, Episcopal, Disciples of Christ, Evangelical Lutheran Churches of America, PCUSA, UCC, and United Methodist Church. As Pentecostalism, broad evangelicalism, and the independent church movements grew, the mainlines became more sidelines on a trajectory to become flatlines.

My denom of more than 50 years was the ABCUSA so my knowledge of SBC is largely anecdotal. However, the truly liberal elements of the SBC were strongest in the denominational staff and institutions (prior to the resurgence), and in a few of the congregations located in university towns and urban settings. The truly liberal folks generally joined the Alliance of Baptists (relatively small group) or the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship that formed out of disgruntled SBC churches, now with 1,800 congregations and a $14.5 million annual budget.


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## Calvinist of the Ozarks (May 2, 2011)

The UMC froze Claremonts funding when UMC members complained but then chose after a period of time to send the money. 

I just checked the UMC homepage and Claremont is on the list of semanries that are funded.


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## Dearly Bought (May 2, 2011)

TomVols said:


> I'm with you. I know more evangelical UMCs than I know evangelical Baptists. The ones I know are broadly Wesleyan, but then again, no moreso than the avg Baptist church.
> Claremont does not receive apportionments from the denom for use in that program they started, btw, That was squelched last year in an uproar from conservative UMCs. From what I gather, there is a huge movement afoot similar to what happened in the SBC years ago (the 'Conservative Resurgence').
> 
> I join with Whitefield in that I'm stunned so many paint with a broad brush.


 
Funding for Claremont was briefly rescinded, but was restored in June of 2010. In a clever move, the school decided to organize its new endeavours so that UMC funds are ostensibly only going to the Christian school of theology. The Claremont School of Theology will then participate in the new multi-faith "University" programs alongside the Jewish and Islamic groups (link). This is a victory for orthodoxy?...


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## SRoper (May 2, 2011)

Whitefield said:


> If you will do your homework, you will find out that The Reconciling Ministries Network is NOT an official organization within the UMC. It is an ultra-liberal caucus which has been repeatedly opposed by the General Conference. In fact, some were arrested at the last General Conference for disruption and trespassing. There is a fundamental battle going on in UMC, and stereotyping by any group is not helpful, especially to the conservative side. The Board on Church and Society is not taken very seriously by the mainstream in the UMC. That Board has been on the extreme left for many decades, and they have continually gone beyond their mandate given by the General Conference. That Board has gone through some radical budgetary cuts due to de-funding of much of what they advocate. At the past couple of General Conferences there has been a growing movement to disband the Board of Church and Society.



Thanks for the clarification. I didn't realize this.


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## BibleCyst (May 2, 2011)

Wow! This thread grew fast! Thank you, everybody, for the words of wisdom.

Her church was very interesting. My greatest concern turned out to be Arminianism, which is actually a relief. While it is error, it's SO much easier to deal with then the other problems of the UMC. The only real weird thing was in Sunday school, they were discussing types of Christ, and somehow made the "sun" (yes, the glowing thing in the sky) to be a type of Christ. It was a weird analogy. All of the Pastors were male, and oddly, all of the people that served communion were male as well. (I'm wondering if they were elders, bishops, or whatever Methodists call them.) I did feel comfortable taking communion, which is saying something considering I'm a puritan. Remember when I mentioned flag waving in my first post? Well, there was a woman walking around waving a giant "Jesus" flag. The service kinda bordered on charismatic. I did end up concluding that her particular congregation is not apostate... just very broadly evangelical with weird things that occasionally trickle down from the UMC.

For those who are asking why she isn't going to church with me, she actually is. She's coming to my church next week. She really loves her church, though. Very deeply. She will not be leaving it. Thankfully, she is a genuine believer.


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## Zenas (May 2, 2011)

BibleCyst said:


> She really loves her church, though. Very deeply. She will not be leaving it.



This would cause me serious concern for the future. I would refrain from further emotional involvement until she is willing to sit under Biblical teaching.


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## BibleCyst (May 2, 2011)

Men, I thank you for the advise and words of wisdom. I did, however, determine that her church is not apostate. I was comfortable taking communion there. Though there is error in her church, there is also error in my church. I believe that she has placed herself under Godly authority. I will not see the full scope of this until I see how she reacts to my church, which is very much Reformed. As of what I know now, I will not be ending the courtship over this.


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## BibleCyst (May 2, 2011)

Joshua said:


> All I'm saying, Friend, is that if she's resolved not to leave her church, are you going to go to separate churches after marriage? Are you going to compromise and go to UMC? Here's to hoping that neither would be the case.


 
I agree, brother. That will have to be addressed, if we get that far.


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## TomVols (May 3, 2011)

Biblecyst, you have my prayers. Either way, some form of "compromise" will occur should the marriage take place. You and your girlfriend need wisdom beyond yourself for this.


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## NB3K (May 3, 2011)

Well friend, all I can say is guard yourself!!!!

I say this because God may be using you as a light in there to draw oput His chosen one's.

Remember God always has a purpose for everything that happens or you would not be attending there.


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## DAW (May 4, 2011)

Brother, you say that Presbyterians believe that the sacrament (the Lord's Supper) "is Memorialism". That may be the position of the PCUSA which your congregation belongs to, but it certainly is not the official position of the more conservative Presbyterians such as the PCA, OPC, the RPCNA and even the RCUS, URCNA and historically Congregationalism and Reformed Anglicans. Question 96 of the Shorter Catechism says that not only do we feed on the Lord spiritually, but that this sacrament is a means of grace.


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## J. Dean (May 5, 2011)

UMC is a liberal denomination. This is not to say that all churches in and of themselves are liberal, but the denomination as a whole takes a very unscriptural stance on many issues.

To tell the truth, I concur with others here who have said that she should be going to your church.


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## awretchsavedbygrace (May 5, 2011)

BibleCyst said:


> Men, I thank you for the advise and words of wisdom. I did, however, determine that her church is not apostate. I was comfortable taking communion there. Though there is error in her church, there is also error in my church. I believe that she has placed herself under Godly authority. I will not see the full scope of this until I see how she reacts to my church, which is very much Reformed. As of what I know now, I will not be ending the courtship over this.



Hi. I don't want to keep repeating what Josh and the others have said, but I feel like I should. I too was dating a girl who went to a methodist church- and lets just say, she didn't want to leave her church. Pray about it. Talk to her. I'm assuming you would have her become a member of your church when the time is right. So, just make sure you guys are on the same page.


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## FenderPriest (May 6, 2011)

I grew up in the UMC, and while there may be some elements of flag waving, feminist theology, etc., what one finds at any given church will vary from region to region, and church to church. I went to a decent UMC church in Mobile, AL while I was in high school, and while there were things there of concern (women elders, church-growth models, etc.), I wouldn't call the church apostate since they reflected the more conservative end of the UMC spectrum in their Gospel beliefs. I went to many UMC churches growing up across the south, and worked at a few as well, and _never_ ran into flag waving... so maybe that's a northern thing. Anyhoo... Introduce your girlfriend to the original Methodist - George Whitefield - and have her read Dalimore's biography, and she'll probably want to be a true methodist after that instead of a UMC'r... Just say'n.


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## cajunhillbilly53 (May 12, 2011)

I also grew up in the UMC. It is on the whole apostate. But there are conservative miniters and congregations in the UMC inspite of the heiarchy being real liberal. I have a friend in Michigan who is a very conservative Methodist preacher who preaches the gospel of salvation by grace through faith. But he tends to be Arminian, as do any conservtive UM paster. Remeber the church was started by the Wesleys. They were Arminian but were referred to as "almost Calvinists".


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## Whitefield (May 12, 2011)

cajunhillbilly53 said:


> But he tends to be Arminian, as do any conservtive UM paster.



No quite "*all*".



cajunhillbilly53 said:


> Remeber the church was started by the Wesleys.




Not just the Wesley's, the largest Methodist Church outside of London in the early period of Methodism was pastored by a Calvinist who also was there at the beginning of the Methodist Church. But, poor ole George is just forgotten by so many people.


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## ralphmnj (May 13, 2011)

I grew up as a United Methodist and was involved in decision-making bodies at the local, state, regional, and global levels. Practically all of what was said on this board is true. The United Methodist Church has a lot of variety within the local church setting. A church in New York City you would see pro-gay, social gospel, "Christless" Christianity running rampant. On the other hand, a rural church in the Bible belt could offer a typical run-of-the-mill evangelical experience. While every now and then, you will find one that, although Arminian, has gospel-centered, Biblical teaching to a degree (excluding, of course, violations of Biblical worship found in many churches: even conservative, evangelical ones). 

There is a significant group of individuals seeking to reform the United Methodist Church (among them The Institute on Religion & Democracy and The Confessing Movement.)

While the United Methodist Church will most likely never return to the days of John Wesley, I actually do not predict the same future as the PCUSA, Episcopal, and Lutheran churches. While these three are practically tripping over themselves in an effort to ordain homosexuals (the most recent being the PCUSA this week), their one difference with the UMC is constituency. They are USA-based while the United Methodist Church is a global church with significant (and rapidly growing) membership in Africa and Asia. What you see globally is an evangelical, conservative, church. Delegates from these areas consistently vote in favor of Biblical social issues and the Gospel. One delegate from Africa even saying during a debate on homosexuality that when he was a kid, he remembers Methodist evangelists bringing the Gospel to his village and now it seems that they are reminding the church of the very same Gospel. I believe that liberals in the church will be frustrated by their inability to accomplish their agenda and there will be a split.

However, this doesn't address an unbiblical model of church structure and organization, regulative principle, etc. We see these same things in other more "acceptable" Christian denominations and circles as well.

My wife just told me I've written a book and so it seems - sorry for being so wordy. It's just the UMC has a special place in my walk with the Lord - in His providence God found me, saved me, and grew me all while an active member (and even elected official) in The United Methodist Church. (In case anyone cares, I wrote an article on Why I Left The United Methodist Church here).


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## FenderPriest (May 14, 2011)

Ralph, I think you're judgment on the UMC globally (re: growth in Africa and Asia) is accurate. I think the UMC will likely go more in the direction of the Anglican Communion in that USA-faithful churches will break from the UMC and group with Methodists in Africa and Asia. I remember the 2004 (?) global meeting was a little hairy (due to post-9/11 issues) because of visa issues for foreign delegates - if they weren't able to get to the meeting, the liberal constituency would have been heavier and would have been able to pass the liberal agenda. Anyhow, I resonate with your thoughts and your heart, probably because we have similar stories and experiences.


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