# Wrong ideas about Calvinism



## Greg (Dec 27, 2005)

What are some of the worst misrepresetations/misunderstandings about Calvinism that you've heard?

A common one that I frequently hear is that God _forces_ people into heaven or into hell _against their will._


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## crhoades (Dec 27, 2005)

Anything by Dave Hunt


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## Arch2k (Dec 27, 2005)

- That Arminianism is really "Moderate-Calvinism" and that Calvinism is really "Hyper-Calvinism."

- That we don't "choose" at all.

- That Calvinism makes God the author of evil.

- That predistination eleviates responsibiliy.

[Edited on 12-27-2005 by Jeff_Bartel]


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 27, 2005)

Calvinism is a cult........


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## non dignus (Dec 27, 2005)

Calvin can't be right because he personally burned Servetus at the stake.


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## Greg (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> - That Arminianism is really "Moderate-Calvinism" and that Calvinism is really "Hyper-Calvinism."



You wouldn't be referring to Norman Geisler in "Chosen But Free" would you? 



> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> 
> Anything by Dave Hunt



What Love Is That?



> _Originally posted by non dignus_
> 
> Calvin can't be right because he personally burned Servetus at the stake.



Ah, yes. The classic ad hominem fallacy!


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## mgeoffriau (Dec 27, 2005)

It's really already been covered, but the formulation I hear most often is that Calvinism just makes us robots, or automatons. Another way of saying "no choice" or "no personal responsibility", but it carries with it a particularly bad connotation.


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## Greg (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by mgeoffriau_
> It's really already been covered, but the formulation I hear most often is that Calvinism just makes us robots, or automatons. Another way of saying "no choice" or "no personal responsibility", but it carries with it a particularly bad connotation.



My bad. Sorry if I'm being redundant here. I scrolled through some of the existing threads in this forum before I posted this and didn't notice one already.

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by Greg]


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## mgeoffriau (Dec 27, 2005)

Sorry, I meant that my point about "robots" was already covered in this thread. I wasn't referring to the thread itself.


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## turmeric (Dec 27, 2005)

Calvinists are arrogant, they think they're elect...

Puritans equated wealth with God's favor, poverty with His disfavor...(that's not puritanism, that's WordFaith!)

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by turmeric]


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## Devin (Dec 28, 2005)

Calvinism kills evangelism.


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## Robin (Dec 28, 2005)

"Calvinism is all about the doctrine of predestination."

Robin


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## BrianBowman (Dec 28, 2005)

Calvinism is strictly embodied in the "Five-Points" (In fact many who believe this don't even know the "Five-Points of Calvinism" were assembled *after* Calvin's death in response to the Arminian Remonstrance).


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## cupotea (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> Calvinists are arrogant, they think they're elect...
> Puritans equated wealth with God's favor, poverty with His disfavor../quote]
> 
> ...


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## Plimoth Thom (Dec 28, 2005)

"It shows a world that seems to be a puppet theater and God a puppet master, a world which seems devoid of freedom."

"Calvinists say predestination is like robots or machines made to be saved and others made for hell"

"Calvinism technically is a sin."


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## Civbert (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by BrianBowman_
> Calvinism is strictly embodied in the "Five-Points" (In fact many who believe this don't even know the "Five-Points of Calvinism" were assembled *after* Calvin's death in response to the Arminian Remonstrance).




I've heard: The doctrines of TULIP define Calvinism. I think wikipedia has this. 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calvinism#The_five_points_of_.22Calvinism.22

(appears this has been revised)

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by Civbert]


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## Puritan Sailor (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> Calvinism is a cult........




This was probably the most hurtful and ignorant attack made against me by someone very close....


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## yeutter (Dec 28, 2005)

That Barth and Brunner were Calvinists.

That Jansenists held the same distinctives as Calvinists.


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## CDM (Dec 28, 2005)

*?*



> _Originally posted by Civbert_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by BrianBowman_
> ...





This isn't far off from the truth is it? While TULIP isn't ALL of Calvinism, you could certainly say its a good summary of it couldn't you?


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## BrianBowman (Dec 28, 2005)

TULIP is a great summary of many aspects of Calvinism - especially with regard to soteriology, but unfortunately the way it's veiwed and criticized by many folks (including substantial numbers of professing Christians) leaves out perhaps the best part (in my opinion) which is the exhalation of the Godhead in _ALL_ matters. God is totally sovereign and the source of all of life, truth, and decree. This is unmatched in other theologies.


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## crhoades (Dec 28, 2005)

that we're gun toting hicks... (I know...I know...the other thread was locked. delete if necessary)


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## mybigGod (Dec 28, 2005)

That we need both calvinism and armininism. That a person is unbalanced to crazy if he doesnt believe both. These people = armininist
That they can stomach all the points of calvinism accept limited atonement. These people=armininist.
The reason they want to think this way is because they want to preserve free will. They cannot accept that man is unable to choose spiritual good. They love that because our society enforces it through the system of political thought. They even represent this as the 2 parrellel lines of Gods soveriegnty and mans responsiblity.

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by mybigGod]

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by mybigGod]

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by mybigGod]


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## turmeric (Dec 28, 2005)

(to the tune of Noel)

No L, no L, the Amyraldists do say
To certain poor Christians in pews where they stay -
In pews where they stay nodding to sleep
Through the sermons they hear when each Sabbath they keep.


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## ~~Susita~~ (Jan 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by turmeric_
> Calvinists are arrogant, they think they're elect...



That's definitely a two-sided argument. I'd say Arminians are prideful in that they get to "choose" their salvation, that they basically have authority over God's complete sovereignty.

Another thing I've had thrown at me is that Calvinists don't really care what happens to those not chosen by God. Basically since I'm chosen, that's all that matters to me because in the end God has complete authority. Riiiiight.


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## panta dokimazete (Jan 5, 2006)

> the best part (in my opinion) which is the exhalation of the Godhead in _ALL_ matters. God is totally sovereign and the source of all of life, truth, and decree. This is unmatched in other theologies.



Amen and Amen!


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## Plimoth Thom (Jan 5, 2006)

Here's some more wrong ideas of Reformed theology from an LCMS website.



> A. The major differences between the LCMS and most Reformed churches include the following:
> 
> 1) The centrality of the Gospel. Reformed churches tend to emphasize the "glory" or "sovereignty" of God as the central teaching of Scripture while Lutherans believe that the central teaching of Scripture--and the key to understanding and interpreting the Bible--is the Gospel: the Good News of salvation for sinners by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.
> 
> ...


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## ~~Susita~~ (Jan 6, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Plimoth Thom_
> 
> 
> > 4) The authority of Scripture. A fourth difference has to do with the proper use of reason and its relationship to the authority of Scripture. Lutherans look to Scripture alone as the source of all Christian doctrine, and hold to the teachings of Scripture even when they are incomprehensible to human reason. Reformed churches tend to place human reason alongside Scripture as a source of doctrinal authority, and seek to bring seemingly paradoxical Scriptural truths into harmony with human reason in ways that (in our view) undermine the truthfulness and authority of Scripture.


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## Steve Owen (Jan 7, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BrianBowman_
> perhaps the best part (in my opinion) which is the exhalation of the Godhead in _ALL_ matters.



Is this something to do with, 'All Scripture is God-breathed'?

Martin


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## turmeric (Jan 7, 2006)

Nope, some people can't spell! I think he meant *exaltation*!


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## August (Jan 26, 2006)

http://discussions.godandscience.org/viewtopic.php?t=1717&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Here is a whole list, take your pick.

It was the first time I encountered such hysterical arguments against Calvinism, and left me amazed with all the misrepresentations. 

Actually, I would appreciate if some of you had a spare moment to join the discussion, myself and Puritan Lad are a bit outnumbered.


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