# Four month old (and mom!) with sleeping problems



## Kim G (Jan 23, 2010)

I need help from some experienced parents!

I try to get my four-month-old boy to bed around 9 PM. (Hubby works second shift so we all have later hours at home . . . bedtime for us is 1 AM). Between 9 PM and 9 AM, he wakes up four or more times crying until he is fed (formula). This is consistent with his daytime feedings--one 4 ounce bottle every 3 hours. But then he also wakes up other times because he'll roll on top of his arm or claw his face until it bleeds. Then he starts crying and has to be comforted again.

I have had a really rough time of it. I had surgery a month after he was born and slept with him on a mattress on the floor in his room because getting up was too painful. Now he won't sleep unless I'm right next to him. I have always struggled with insomnia, and now when I finally get to sleep after a couple of hours, I have to wake up to take care of a wailing infant. I'm on anti-anxiety meds now just to keep from going crazy.

My doctor said to put my son in his crib, turn on a loud noise in my room to drown out his cries, and just sleep for eight hours every night.

Does anyone have any advice for my baby or for me? I'm so tired that I know things have to change, but I'm also so tired that enforcing anything is hard because my emotions are out of whack.


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## Mushroom (Jan 23, 2010)

We did what your doctor recommended, and it works, but it's not easy. Others will have better advice, I just wanted to let you know I'll be praying for you.


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## Idelette (Jan 24, 2010)

Well, I know that one of my friends had a similar problem after her child was born. She ended up wrapping a tee shirt that smelled like her and keeping it next to the baby in his crib and that worked well at keeping him quiet throughout the night. Maybe that can help you as well.... praying for you!


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## N. Eshelman (Jan 24, 2010)

My wife liked the book called "The No Cry Sleep Solution" by Elizabeth Pantley. It has a number of helpful suggestions that are backed by research. 

http://www.amazon.com/No-Cry-Sleep-Solution-Gentle-Through/dp/0071381392/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264310860&sr=8-1

She also has a book for toddlers and preschoolers when it becomes a problem again.


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## TheDow (Jan 24, 2010)

I'm sorry to hear about your troubles.

My wife and I also had a lot of trouble getting our first to sleep. Our problem was not nights, though, but naps. We ended up having to do what your doctor recommended as well. We tried a LOT of other methods, and none worked for long. What finally worked in getting him to learn how to put himself to sleep was to create a naptime routine. Sing while rocking, with the lights off, and a noise machine on in HIS room to help him get to sleep.

This is the one we use: Amazon.com: Marpac SleepMate 980A Electro-Mechanical Sound Conditioner: Health & Personal Care

Then, we'd tell him it was time for a nap, that we loved him, and that we'd see him when he wakes up. She'd put him down, and he'd cry...

At least for a couple days. Our rule of thumb was that we'd let him cry for 45 minutes. (Kind of the normal minimum time for a nap.) There were plenty of days where he would cry for the full 45 minutes for at least one nap. He eventually learned to put himself to sleep, though, and while his naps aren't always LONG, he does nap. 

But we're praying for you. You definitely need your sleep, and some things definitely need to change. My wife found a LOT of help at Babywhisperer.com - Index, but she said there are a LOT of posts, so it might be somewhat overwhelming.

She also wanted to know if you've tried swaddling. Some people love it and some hate it. We hated it to begin, but ended up loving it, as it really helped our son. My wife just found a swaddle blanket that she thinks would work REALLY well. It's called the Woombie. You should be able to search for it on Google.

Kim says that at 4 months, an infant can go for 8 hours at night without a feed. He'll make up the calories during the day. Clinically, there's no problem with letting him cry.

If you're dead set against letting him cry, or if you can't get to sleep while he's crying despite your best efforts, there is a book called the No-Cry Sleep Method, which Kim found at the library. That one didn't help us as well, but she recommends it because you said he doesn't want to sleep unless you're near him, and the book is a much gentler way of sleep-training your infant. The author is an advocate of co-sleeping.

http://www.amazon.com/No-Cry-Sleep-...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1264310927&sr=8-1

In any event, we will be praying that you find something that works for your family. There are people who know what you're going through.


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## Honor (Jan 24, 2010)

hey... I am a big Co-sleeping option. I think that it worked really well with my boys... Chloe is different and she doesn't like it... (I think the main difference is she isn't breast fed) We only let them cry it out once they were past the one year mark. I know it's a bit old but I think that before that there are a lot of issues going on. colic, teething, seperation, etc. also the things you said he is waking up with (rolling on his arm and scratching himself until he bleeds) are lagitimate reasons to cry in the middle of the night. I wake up if my arm falls asleep and if I were bleeding I would cry too, so....anyways oh just a side note. Chloe eats 4ounces every three hours and she is 1.5 months old maybe you could give him more right before bed, or add a little cereal (only with doc permission) and make the room a bit warmer than usual. anyhow. I can def. feel you on the sleep dep. It is the WORST! I would almost get a panic attack just thinking about not getting any sleep. it was rough. Praying for you.
Please please remember even when it doesn't seem like it right now... THIS DOESN"T LAST FOREVER. this doesn't even last a year. plus caffine is your best friend. wake up in the morning and tell her hello... chat with her often through out the day. and see if there is someone... family, friends, or homeschooled teens from church that can come watch the baby during the day for like two hours so you can sleep. and i think the best help is if you can get someone to come right now on a regular basis... ask someone from the church or what not to come say for 1 hour (two is better) every day for two weeks... it will mentally give you a break and let you recharge and not feel that deprate feeling. if you have to and you can afford it pay someone... it is well worth it. Hang in there.


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## Michael (Jan 24, 2010)

Put some Vaseline on the area of his face where he scratches to help prevent the bleeding.

Yes, it is very torturous to leave the child and hear him cry when he just wants to be next to you. But as it's been pointed out...it will eventually cease. My wife would use Yvonne's trick and leave a blanket that smelled like her with Owen when he was little. It worked, but just know that it also develops somewhat of a dependency for comfort items. However, that may be something you are willing to compromise on.


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## he beholds (Jan 24, 2010)

We let our first son cry it out, but the second two children we've done sleep a little differently. If the baby cries, (and it's not time to eat) I go and pet him or even pick him up for a second, (I don't rock or feed him to sleep) and as soon as he's quiet ( a moment later) I put him back down. And often I repeat this a few times, but I do feel like he gets it now that mommy will return. I definitely try to put him to bed while he's still awake, and I don't like to rock or nurse him to sleep, b/c then if he wakes up in the middle of the night, he will think he needs this again. I will pat him for a minute or two (I sleep him on his belly...don't tell!) until he stops crying. I like to put him down while he is awake but also while he is not crying. 

He's not quite 7 weeks old, and I don't exactly remember 4 months, so my advice may not be appropriate. My first two slept through the night by 7 weeks...Jude has two days to meet that goal and I don't see it coming, but this time I am not so stressed, so that is ok. I remember the stress of having your first child--sleep is crucial, hope you get some!


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## CatherineL (Jan 24, 2010)

I have always heard doctors and others say that babies can go 8 hours at night without eating, but none of my three have ever gone that long at 4 months. Usually when they're a bit older I do have to wean them off of night feedings, so I'll tell you how I do that in case it will help. I personally am not comfortable letting my babies cry for long periods alone at that age. If you're not comfortable with that (which I assume because you're not just crawling into bed with a pillow over your head), I'd suggest trying this as a middle of the road approach. I always did this with somewhat older babies (13 months or so) but they were very used to all night snacking. I've heard from my friends who are more into sleep training that 4 months is about the best time to do it because they're old enough to go longer, but not so ingrained with their habits. 

First off, make sure you have a good night time routine set up. 9 pm seems a bit late for a baby bed time - you might want to try putting him down around 7 just to see if that makes a difference. Sometimes being overtired will mess with their nighttime sleeping.

Our night night routine would be nursing, then rocking in a dark room, then putting down mostly asleep. Then when he wakes up at night, check his diaper and make sure he's not hot or cold, and if you're satisfied there's not something else wrong, just pick him up and cuddle or rock him back to sleep, but don't feed him. There will be crying, maybe for a long time. But I found that it has the same effect as crying it out after a few nights - they stop waking up expecting to be fed, and go back to sleep. Its like you're showing them the all night snack bar has closed up shop, so they decide its not worth waking up to see if its open anymore. 

From what I know of cry it out, I think this method takes a few days longer, but for me the emotional trauma was not nearly as great. Even though there is crying, I'm not worried that he's alone. It usually took me 3-4 nights of getting up a few times a night for an hour or so. Then suddenly, sleeping much longer stretches. Its hard, but it doesn't last for that long. If you can convince your husband to help you by taking turns getting up that's very helpful. Take naps during the day and give your husband the heads up that not much will get done around the house for a week or so. And like Honor said, caffeine can be helpful too. 

I have a few sleepers that have little mits on the hands, or you could put socks over his hands to help with the scratching. I hate clipping baby nails, but using an emory board to file them down can be really helpful for scratchers. I did this with mine to keep them from scratching me while they nursed!

I hope this helps. I am praying for you.


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## Kim G (Jan 25, 2010)

CatherineL said:


> Our night night routine would be nursing, then rocking in a dark room, then putting down mostly asleep. Then when he wakes up at night, check his diaper and make sure he's not hot or cold, and if you're satisfied there's not something else wrong, just pick him up and cuddle or rock him back to sleep, but *don't feed him*.


 
I actually did this Saturday night. When he woke up after three hours, I didn't give him a bottle. He went back to sleep for another three hours! And then last night, he slept FIVE HOURS straight through. This is the first time it's ever been more than 3 hours. I'm very excited. 

Thanks to everyone for the advice!


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## CatherineL (Jan 25, 2010)

Whoohoo!


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## lynnie (Jan 25, 2010)

Praise the Lord.

I had four boys and once they hit 17 lbs ( 4-5 months) the only way they would sleep at night was with cereal. Most of the books say to wait until 6 months but a big baby gets hungry.


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## TheDow (Jan 29, 2010)

Praise God!!!!

Stuff like this makes me so happy. We had a really hard time with Iain, and really feel for moms who also have a hard time. Kim and I were extremely glad to hear this!


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## JBaldwin (Jan 30, 2010)

Kim, 
Glad to hear you're getting more sleep. I never got more than six hours at a time with either of my children until they were a year old (they both nursed until at least a year). Turns out both of my children have very high metabolism, and they need to eat more even now. 

While we technically weren't into co-sleeping, both of my children slept in our room until they were able to sleep through the night, and when they were under six months, they slept in a large baby basket propped up on a stand next to our bed. Often all it took was me to lean over from the bed and put my hand on them, and they would go right back to sleep and so would I.


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## kjat32 (Jan 31, 2010)

It sounds like things are sorting themselves out, but in case there's anyone else with the same problems...
We've had four unique children and each one had a different time they slept well without me or nursing. Depending on our family situation, I got up or co-slept with our little ones until somewhere between 2-6 months (also depended on how soon hubby kicked them out! . I've had big babies all, but I didn't want to do the cereal route until I was sure their stomachs could handle it. After a few babies, you may be able to notice a significant change of stool consistency, smell around 5-6 months when they become fully developed internally, and after that is when I began solid foods. I know kids can eat cereal before then, I just felt more comfortable waiting. To deal with sleeping before this time, I second some of the other advice. What I do with my fourth currently 8 month old is what worked best with the others. When they cry *try to catch them before they really wake up* and go sooth them. A hand, a hug, or if you need to pick them up. Wait a few seconds/minutes til they calm down and put them down again. Leave the room. Let them cry some more if that doesn't work and go back (10-15 min later) and try it again. After a few tries at this they "get it" and soon they'll sleep all the way without waking up, or if they do they go right back to sleep once soothed. Of course, check for other possible reasons for being upset, like bleeding, but if there isn't anything, then it may be a habit of waking that you need to break. For your sanity and theirs! 

Best wishes to all the other sleep deprived moms out there,


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