# Practical views on fasting



## jwithnell (Jun 8, 2008)

I'd like to know how others of you incorporate fasting into your walks before God. This is not necessarily a question about _if_ we should fast, but rather a practical discussion on the when, wheres, and whys of your incorporating this discipline into your lives.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 8, 2008)

The Sabbath is not a good time to fast, as we are to call the Sabbath a delight (Is. 58).


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## jwithnell (Jun 8, 2008)

Funny you should mention the Sabbath, because that is one aspect I have been thinking about too, but I was starting from a broader perspective ...


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 8, 2008)

Here is a link to a post on the subject:

The Discipline of Fasting (1) « Puritanism Today


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 8, 2008)

It is important to distinguish between public, private and family fasting, because the occasions and directions for each vary. Also, directions will vary depending on the person and circumstance (elderly, sick, pregnant, children, etc.). However, assuming we are talking about private fasting, I'll quote some guidance which has been useful to me.

Links and Downloads Manager - Christian Walk Links - The Christian's Daily Walk by Henry Scudder - The PuritanBoard

Links and Downloads Manager - Christian Walk Links - The Practice of Piety - The PuritanBoard

Lewis Bayly, _The Practice of Piety_, pp. 209-211:



> 2. Of the Time.
> 
> The holy Scripture appoints no time under the New Testament to fast; but leaves it to Christians’ own free choice (Rom. xiv. 3; 1 Cor. vii. 5), to fast as occasions shall be offered to them (Matt. ix. 15; ) as when a man becomes an humble, an earnest suitor to God for the pardon of some gross sin committed; or for the prevention of some sin to which a man feels himself by Satan solicited; or to obtain some special blessing which he wants; or to avert some judgment which a man fears, or is already fallen upon himself or others; or, lastly, to subdue his flesh to his spirit, that he may more cheerfully pour forth his soul to God by prayer. Upon these occasions a man may fast a day or longer, as his occasion requires, and the constitution of his body and other needful affairs will permit (Lev. xxiii. 32; Josh. vii. 6; Esth. iv. 16.)
> 
> ...


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## staythecourse (Jun 8, 2008)

Donald Whitney did a nice job of incorporating fasting into our Christian lives. The book was Spiritual Disciplines.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jun 8, 2008)

Has anyone read John Piper's book on the subject?


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## KMK (Jun 9, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> It is important to distinguish between public, private and family fasting, because the occasions and directions for each vary. Also, directions will vary depending on the person and circumstance (elderly, sick, pregnant, children, etc.). However, assuming we are talking about private fasting, I'll quote some guidance which has been useful to me.
> 
> Links and Downloads Manager - Christian Walk Links - The Christian's Daily Walk by Henry Scudder - The PuritanBoard
> 
> ...



Awesome stuff, Andrew! I especially liked point number 4. I had never thought of it that way. (Good support for morning devotionals) Where would the fasting of intimacy between husband and wife fall? Point #5?

Besides often 'sleep fasting' in favor of morning devotional time, I also started fasting lunches at work a few years ago. This makes for much more fruitful devotional time during my lunch break at work.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 10, 2008)

KMK said:


> Awesome stuff, Andrew! I especially liked point number 4. I had never thought of it that way. (Good support for morning devotionals) Where would the fasting of intimacy between husband and wife fall? Point #5?



Yes, I think so.

I found another good, practical resource: Samuel Miller, _The Duty, the Benefits, and the Proper Methods of Religious Fasting_.

Fasting (Samuel Miller)


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## jwithnell (Jun 11, 2008)

I didn't mean to abandon this thread  I truly appreciate the perspectives offered and would like to pick this up again in the near future. My time is rather insane right now, and that last time I had for prayer and fasting is sitting as a quiet interlude in my mind and heart.


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## jwithnell (Jun 15, 2008)

The Sabbath gives me the chance to finally give some thought to this. 

When I first posted, what I was wondering is how modern folks with a reformed perspective incorporate fasting into their personal faith and practice. While my time on PB is limited, it doesn't seem like fasting is a topic that comes up very often, although scripture clearly sees it as a practice that has spiritual benefit.

I do appreciate the posts that give an historical perspective. I found Mr. Scudder's Daily Walk beneficial in many areas, but especially so regarding fasting. His "preparation" takes me a good chunk of the day and leaves me thoroughly edified.

So, what is your practice now? How is fasting practiced in your congregation?

Thanks in advance.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 15, 2008)

Our congregation practices private, family and congregational fasting. It is a subject that our pastor teaches from the pulpit from time to time and gives emphasis to, precisely because it is part of the spiritual walk commended to us by the Bible itself and our Puritan forbears. 

You're right that the subject is not given its due weight on the PB. In part, this might be because, like almsgiving or secret prayer, some might not want to talk about their secret fasting publicly. Or perhaps few think about it as a regular means of grace as understood by the Puritans. As I wrote in this thread on Puritan Piety, 



> Singing of psalms, meditation, family worship, fasting are means of grace that are often overlooked by many in our day.



Nevertheless, a quick search of PB threads identified 222 which reference 'fasting.' Sometimes it comes up when people are discussing Lent and Ramadan. Here are a few from the archives which might be of interest:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/prayer-meditation-fasting-29308/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/what-purpose-fasting-29168/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/fasting-28729/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f29/san...l-solemn-assembly-corporate-repentance-22271/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/how-fast-22431/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/observing-church-wide-fast-18635/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f47/history-solemn-assembly-16299/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f67/fasting-16824/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/spiritual-fasting-15179/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/fasting-5953/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f64/fasting-2130/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f25/fasting-2273/


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## jwithnell (Jun 15, 2008)

I understand the "secret" part -- I don't really even discuss it with my spouse. He just knows that when meals are prepared ahead of time and I've asked to "disappear" that I'm not going to be around food that day. He is a real blessing and encouragement to me!


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## KMK (Jun 15, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> You're right that the subject is not given its due weight on the PB. In part, this might be because, like almsgiving or secret prayer, some might not want to talk about their secret fasting publicly.



I wish this was not so. I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing these issues publically if our hearts are in the right place.

I love hearing the details of people's fasting, tithing and giving. It helps me to understand my own. The problem seems to be that whenever we get into discussions about tithing for example, anti-tithers jump on board and de-rail the thread. There is also the inherant problem that some, who are not convinced in their own minds about tithing, for example, will be stumbled. (This seems to happen often in discussions about wine with the Lord's Supper or the RPW)

Perhaps a forum could be made for these kinds of discussions with a disclaimer: "The opinions expressed by individuals in this forum are their own and do not necessarily reflect the opinions of your own conscience." 

Seriously, though, I would love to talk about the details of people's fasting practices or whether people tithe before taxes or after taxes etc.


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## Pergamum (Jun 16, 2008)

In the Muslim world, the Ramadan fast is very vigorous - 30 days no eating or drinking during sunlight. I did it last year and it was very hard - especially in the tropics. It helped me to see the spiritual bondage of the people and every night I got to break the fast with neighbors and talk to them during this highly spiritually-charged time. It also helped me to break with my neighbors when false spiritual matters were involved and explain to them why Jesus' way of fasting is better.


I was able also to sympathize more with those who are truly lacking in food. 

Also, I exercised discipline over my body (which I need to do more often...especially when I want my wive's brownies!).




Here is a question, however, about congregational fasting:

If the Puritans were against holidays set by man, why would they set a fast day as a holy day of fasting and expect their congregations to abide by it? They throw out Christmas altogether instead of merely reforming it and yet they set their own holidays themselves that are not mentioned in the Word. Why is this not inconsistent?


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## Pergamum (Jun 16, 2008)

hmmm..I should have written "my wife's brownies" not my wives' brownies..... HA!


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 16, 2008)

KMK said:


> VirginiaHuguenot said:
> 
> 
> > You're right that the subject is not given its due weight on the PB. In part, this might be because, like almsgiving or secret prayer, some might not want to talk about their secret fasting publicly.
> ...



Martin Luther said, "I have so much to do that I shall spend the first three hours in prayer.” Oliver Heywood's diaries (I don't recall if he intended them to be published) record that between 1665 and 1701, he partook of 1,256 fasts. Some have stated publicly the details of their prayer life or fasting experience or almsgiving, and we can no doubt benefit from such. My own preference is to keep that a private matter. It's something I personally would rather speak of to my own family or session or with a friend over coffee or ale, if at all, rather than post such details on the internet. But the principles involved are very much worth proclaiming from the rooftops, as it were.


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## KMK (Jun 16, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> > VirginiaHuguenot said:
> ...



I look forward to that day, brother, when you might invite me to have that cup of coffee with you. Whether it is in this life or the next!


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## JonathanHunt (Jun 16, 2008)

Would anyone define a fast as food and drink? Because for any lengthy fast not allowing yourself at least water could be quite dangerous. No, it IS quite dangerous!

Personally, if I fast, I allow water. My problem is that I have had to break fasts because of physical weakness and inability to do what I should be doing, and thats only after 6-8 hours or so.

J


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 16, 2008)

KMK said:


> VirginiaHuguenot said:
> 
> 
> > KMK said:
> ...



Amen, brother, and likewise!


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## Pilgrim (Jun 16, 2008)

JonathanHunt said:


> Would anyone define a fast as food and drink? Because for any lengthy fast not allowing yourself at least water could be quite dangerous. No, it IS quite dangerous!
> 
> Personally, if I fast, I allow water. My problem is that I have had to break fasts because of physical weakness and inability to do what I should be doing, and thats only after 6-8 hours or so.
> 
> J



I'm glad you brought this up so as to clear up any possible misunderstanding. Fasting is perhaps the most neglected of the spiritual disciplines. Modern people are often unfamiliar with it and could perhaps make some unwarranted assumptions about it. Typically what is in view is going without food, although I've heard of some also going without water for a short time during a particularly difficult trial. As you say, going without water is dangerous and depending on their medical condition going without food could be dangerous for some.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jun 16, 2008)

Early in my Christian life fasting was a terrible bane to me, as I had gotten mixed up with folks (from Tulsa) who promoted "complete" fasts (till all body fat was eaten up and one started going into muscle and vital organs -- which is when starvation begins), and my faith-orientation was a mixture of Pentecostal (waiting for the Baptism of the Holy Spirit), Wesleyan (seeking the Second Blessing and resultant "entire sanctification"), and Finney's Pelagianism (it depended on my will-power to be obedient).

Being convinced the Lord's will was for me to go on a long fast, and not having mature believers -- especially Reformed -- in my circles to correct me, I eventually came to the place to believing that if I was eating I was in sin. If only I had known of imputed righteousness I would have been saved much grief and ignominious failure, for one cannot long sustain a walk with such a view.

That being now decades behind me -- the Savior having graciously and powerfully delivered me from this way of error _primarily by a deep application of the Doctrines of Grace upon my heart and mind_, I find much value in fasting. Still, I remain extremely wary in this area.

First (and not in order of importance), it is a way of my telling Pig Self that he is not in control, I am (no, I'm not schizoid -- this is a manner of speaking).

Second, it helps me seek the Lord with _all_ my heart (for I am normally a very hearty eater, despite having a small appetite and being fairly thin). That I may seek Him, esteeming His presence and "the words of his mouth more than my necessary food." (Job 23:12)

Sometimes I find that I cannot see the way ahead in various areas of my life -- in short, I am blind -- and I need to approach Him with a greater intensity of spirit than I normally have; also I have great burdens concerning the lives of those I love and / or who are in my care; also I have questions I desire answers to; or tasks I wish to undertake which seem beyond me....all these I bring to Him in fasts.

Sometimes I don't fast at all for a long period -- I fast from fasting. Normally, I will go for one day every two weeks, having a breakfast of fruit and (mostly) decaf coffee, and not eating till the next morning. Infrequently I will go for two or three days. A few years ago, in great distress over a situation, I went 7½ days. More than a couple of decades ago I went up into the mountains (the southern Catskills of NY) and fasted 2 weeks (only water during all these times). Prior to this latter fast I had been backslidden for some years, and a great dread came upon me, so I put away my cigarettes and ungodly ways, and sought Him in wilderness solitude. Not too long afterward He brought me out of my backslidden state, and a while after that into the knowledge of His grace according to the Reformed faith.

This does not mean I am especially holy; rather, I had been an especially wretched desperado-type escaping from the ways of the 60's counterculture, and errors of false doctrine, and needed Him desperately. 

When I fast I am saying with greater intensity than usual, "Lord, I do not have what it takes to follow You or to do Your will. Do Thou draw near to me and bless me with Your presence, or I perish."

Sometimes I say, my walk with You is not dependent on my performance, but Your sheer grace is sufficient, and I fast from fasting to prove my point. My views on when to fast change as the tide, ebb and flow.

Ken, I "tithe" after taxes. Actually, I do not see myself under a law of the tithe as the OT saints, but that it is a guideline. Sometimes my wife and I give more, and sometimes, as when we were living on a couple of hundred dollars a month, less. I said to the Lord, "Lord, I have not money to give, but I am rich in time and energy, and I shall give this to Your people and the church." But ordinarily we give what is equal to a tithe. I "tithe" from what I have in my hand, not from an abstract amount I never see.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Jun 17, 2008)

An afterthought

If the above on fasting, my heart, and the vicissitudes of my early life seem a little over the top (as the Brits here are wont to say) it really is but the tip of the iceberg compared to the whole story.

Some of us do not live a normal life (whatever that is!), but plumb depths and traverse wildernesses in spirit -- in realms of consciousness not apparent to the outward eye -- and are found of Christ in these wastelands.

I think there are stories of the human condition which remain untold thus far. Much as I also love the superhero and fantasy genres (having just looked over the movies threads in Entertainment), there is more substance, drama, and glory in the real -- the actual -- than in them.

Perhaps there are stories of this generation that shall yet see the light of day. It is in the hands of God.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jun 19, 2008)

The Discipline of Fasting (1) [CHANGED VERSION] « Puritanism Today (June 6, 2008)
The Discipline of Fasting (2) « Puritanism Today (June 10, 2008)


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Jun 19, 2008)

*My "silly rule" for Fasting!*



JonathanHunt said:


> Would anyone define a fast as food and drink? Because for any lengthy fast not allowing yourself at least water could be quite dangerous. No, it IS quite dangerous!
> 
> Personally, if I fast, I allow water. My problem is that I have had to break fasts because of physical weakness and inability to do what I should be doing, and thats only after 6-8 hours or so.
> 
> J


This is going to sound silly, possibly even contradictory but I have a personal rule about fasting:

*Never fast on an empty stomach*. 

By that I mean, (and perhaps it is just because I'm diabetic) I find I need to eat breakfast on days that I intend to fast, or the blood sugar goes all haywire, and as you say above, "physical weakness and inability to do what needs to be done" is whatcomes of it. However, if I eat a good breakfast, I can often make it well into the later part of the evening with out food. Whereas, I find if I skip breakfast, by about 1 PM I am so weak and distracted that I find it difficult to concentrate on prayer.

Also, good point about water. Fasting refers to food. Keep hydrated, especially if fasting during summer!


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## kvanlaan (Jun 19, 2008)

> In the Muslim world, the Ramadan fast is very vigorous - 30 days no eating or drinking during sunlight. I did it last year and it was very hard - especially in the tropics. It helped me to see the spiritual bondage of the people and every night I got to break the fast with neighbors and talk to them during this highly spiritually-charged time. It also helped me to break with my neighbors when false spiritual matters were involved and explain to them why Jesus' way of fasting is better.



Just one thing about Ramadan fasting. When my wife lived in Cairo, she said that during Ramadan, you could actually hear the city roar when the sun dipped below the horizon. That is not true fasting by a long shot. She also said that people would stumble around all day like zombies because they were partying until the sun came up.


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## staythecourse (Jun 20, 2008)

kvanlaan said:


> > In the Muslim world, the Ramadan fast is very vigorous - 30 days no eating or drinking during sunlight. I did it last year and it was very hard - especially in the tropics. It helped me to see the spiritual bondage of the people and every night I got to break the fast with neighbors and talk to them during this highly spiritually-charged time. It also helped me to break with my neighbors when false spiritual matters were involved and explain to them why Jesus' way of fasting is better.
> 
> 
> 
> Just one thing about Ramadan fasting. When my wife lived in Cairo, she said that during Ramadan, you could actually hear the city roar when the sun dipped below the horizon. That is not true fasting by a long shot. She also said that people would stumble around all day like zombies because they were partying until the sun came up.



Kevin, did the "good" Muslims control themselves and avoid dissipation or were their any who acted honorably?


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## Pergamum (Jun 20, 2008)

What does it mean to "avoid dissipation" and what does it mean to "act honorably" in your post?


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## Pergamum (Jun 21, 2008)

staythecourse said:


> kvanlaan said:
> 
> 
> > > In the Muslim world, the Ramadan fast is very vigorous - 30 days no eating or drinking during sunlight. I did it last year and it was very hard - especially in the tropics. It helped me to see the spiritual bondage of the people and every night I got to break the fast with neighbors and talk to them during this highly spiritually-charged time. It also helped me to break with my neighbors when false spiritual matters were involved and explain to them why Jesus' way of fasting is better.
> ...





Why is feasting after a fast inappropriate? Makes sense to me, a celebration of another day done.


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