# Mandela "Destroys" Calvinism?



## Ask Mr. Religion (Dec 29, 2013)

In what can only be a veiled attempt to plug his book, Frank Schaeffer over at the rabid anti-Calvinistic patheos.com, argues that the "fatalism" and "fanatic racism" of Calvinism was overcome by Mandela's life struggles:

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/frankschaeffer/2013/12/mandela-the-destroyer-of-Calvinism-and- bad-theology/

Apparently, Mandela was a wholly autonomous free agent and God was somehow unawares of the goings on within South Africa. Sigh.

AMR


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 29, 2013)

Leaving aside the issue of Franky Schaeffer's spiritual state for a moment, I think that this sort of thing should make us wary of using Reformed theology as an occasion for the flesh. The abuse of the Reformed faith in order to justify apartheid is something that should rightly fill us with horror. At the same time, however, we are all prone to use our doctrine as a cloak of maliciousness. The fact that Franky Schaeffer is making hay out of the sin of professed Calvinists should serve as a warning to us all to be careful that we are not abusing our theology for similar, sinful ends.


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## earl40 (Dec 29, 2013)

From the article......"Instead of accepting an idea of predestination and categorizing the human race into “lost” and “saved” and “black” and “white” Mandela accepted everyone as a child of God."

Everyone "black" or "white" (BTW also red and yellow) is a creation of God and we should accept them as such.Now Jesus did indeed say those that are not saved are children of the devil. Of course Mandella thought he knew better than The Son of Man and As far as I know he was an unrepentant sinner who now knows better.


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## Edward (Dec 29, 2013)

earl40 said:


> Mandela accepted everyone as a child of God.



Strange philosophy for a Communist.


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## earl40 (Dec 29, 2013)

Edward said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> > Mandela accepted everyone as a child of God.
> ...



He was a smart politician who knew how to smile.


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## Quatchu (Dec 29, 2013)

Reminds me of the time a friend "proved" women should be pastors using every argument except the Bible.


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## py3ak (Dec 29, 2013)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Leaving aside the issue of Franky Schaeffer's spiritual state for a moment, I think that this sort of thing should make us wary of using Reformed theology as an occasion for the flesh. The abuse of the Reformed faith in order to justify apartheid is something that should rightly fill us with horror. At the same time, however, we are all prone to use our doctrine as a cloak of maliciousness. The fact that Franky Schaeffer is making hay out of the sin of professed Calvinists should serve as a warning to us all to be careful that we are not abusing our theology for similar, sinful ends.



Wisely observed, Daniel. It is true that people _ought_ to be able to distinguish between what is part of Calvinism, and what some people who are Calvinists happen to do; but it is hard for people to do that consistently, and we should be careful of putting stumbling blocks in their way. And sometimes that requires explaining our abhorrence at some of the views or practices of someone who in other ways is very congenial to us.


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## au5t1n (Dec 29, 2013)

Edward said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> > Mandela accepted everyone as a child of God.
> ...



Strange philosophy for a terrorist.

Sent from my XT557 using Tapatalk 2


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 29, 2013)

py3ak said:


> Reformed Covenanter said:
> 
> 
> > Leaving aside the issue of Franky Schaeffer's spiritual state for a moment, I think that this sort of thing should make us wary of using Reformed theology as an occasion for the flesh. The abuse of the Reformed faith in order to justify apartheid is something that should rightly fill us with horror. At the same time, however, we are all prone to use our doctrine as a cloak of maliciousness. The fact that Franky Schaeffer is making hay out of the sin of professed Calvinists should serve as a warning to us all to be careful that we are not abusing our theology for similar, sinful ends.
> ...



Yes, having worked on slavery/abolition for the last 3 1/2 years I have had to do this very thing quite a lot - as many people who we might admire in other respects sided with the oppressors, rather than with the oppressed.


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## py3ak (Dec 29, 2013)

That is one area where such discrimination is most necessary; but sadly not always practiced.

Durham has a relevant observation on this topic, in his commentary on Revelation 12:16:



> [On why the Lord thinks good to make use of a declining and even anti-Christian church to preserve the truth]
> A second reason is, the Lord would have us loving truth wherever it may be found, if it were even among the writings of Antichrist’s vassals. He will not have us to measure truth or error by men’s piety or profanity who maintain the same, neither will he have determination of councils to be casten or accepted because the plurality of the discerners are profane or holy: but he will have both squared according to the supreme rule. And so we are to welcome truth, preserved and brought down through the antichristian church, as though it were immediately revealed.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 29, 2013)

au5t1n said:


> Edward said:
> 
> 
> > earl40 said:
> ...



Indeed, I wonder if he accepted those people as children of God on whom he placed "necklaces."


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## Bill The Baptist (Dec 29, 2013)

Regardless of any good points he may make, there can be no doubt that Frank Schaeffer has drifted far from the faith. His most recent previous book was entitled, "Sex, Mom, and God: How the Bible's Strange Take on Sex Led to Crazy Politics—and How I Learned to Love Women (and Jesus) Anyway."


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## MW (Dec 29, 2013)

As far I can see Nelson Mandela has helped to prove the value of Calvinism. Taking away social disadvantages has not taken away the propensity to commit sin. This argues in favour of the Calvinist doctrine that sin is a depravity of nature.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Dec 29, 2013)

Exactly so, Rev. Winzer.


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## Mr. Bultitude (Dec 30, 2013)

Reformed Covenanter said:


> Yes, having worked on slavery/abolition for the last 3 1/2 years I have had to do this very thing quite a lot - as many people who we might admire in other respects sided with the oppressors, rather than with the oppressed.



If you don't mind me asking, in what capacity have you worked on abolition?


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## arapahoepark (Dec 30, 2013)

armourbearer said:


> As far I can see Nelson Mandela has helped to prove the value of Calvinism. Taking away social disadvantages has not taken away the propensity to commit sin. This argues in favour of the Calvinist doctrine that sin is a depravity of nature.



With his hate mongering he actually increased it.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Dec 30, 2013)

Mr. Bultitude said:


> Reformed Covenanter said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, having worked on slavery/abolition for the last 3 1/2 years I have had to do this very thing quite a lot - as many people who we might admire in other respects sided with the oppressors, rather than with the oppressed.
> ...



Mostly in relation to nineteenth-century Irish Presbyterianism, the Free Church of Scotland, the Evangelical Alliance, and with respect to transatlantic revivalism and the American Civil War. I did this mostly by means of a biography (which was my PhD thesis) and biographical cases studies relating to the leading abolitionist within the Presbyterian Church in Ireland; this required me to interact with a lot of proslavery American divines as well (I have also worked on other projects relating to Covenanters and Anglicans).


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## Darryl Le Roux (Dec 30, 2013)

Nelson Mandela: son of Qunu returns to the soil Hardly a Christian burial. 

Mandela was extremely "secretive" about his beliefs. Hence the inter-faith memorial service. No one knew who he belonged to. 

This country is in absolute shambles due to his ANC government, but that's a whole other story.


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## Edward (Dec 30, 2013)

Darryl Le Roux said:


> No one knew who he belonged to.



Marx & Lenin, of course. He may not have been a Stalinist.


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## davdavis (Dec 30, 2013)

Re: Franky Schaeffer its sad to see someone carry their adolescent rebellion into their 60,s. Gosh, he made the shocking discovery his parents weren't perfect. During the 70's Ill bet he listened to "cats in the cradle"


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## davdavis (Dec 30, 2013)

Joe Slovo, who held the rank of Colonel in the KGB was Mandela closest associate. see ?Saint? Mandela? Not So Fast!


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## THE W (Jan 2, 2014)

i actually read...that.

gross buffoonery


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## Sovereign Grace (Jan 22, 2014)

Calvinism/DoG is what it is...backed solely by God's word. It doesn't need to be defended. The word needs no defense...it defends itself quite nicely. Those who oppose/attack it are kicking against the pricks...


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## Sovereign Grace (Jan 22, 2014)

Darryl Le Roux said:


> Nelson Mandela: son of Qunu returns to the soil Hardly a Christian burial.
> 
> Mandela was extremely "secretive" about his beliefs. Hence the inter-faith memorial service. No one knew who he belonged to.
> 
> This country is in absolute shambles due to his ANC government, but that's a whole other story.



Same could/should be said about our president., Barack Hussein Obama. And I'm a democrat!!!!!!!


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