# Different Types of Muslims- Is This An Oversimplification?



## Frosty (Sep 11, 2013)

Reflecting on the current events in Syria as well as the events of 9/11 got me thinking.

Is it accurate to say that jihadist Muslim extremists are the "by the book", literal interpretation, Muslims? I know the Koran has a number of passages that would definitely be jihadist in nature.

And do therefore the other sects hold to more liberal interpretations of the Koran? These being non-radical jihadist Muslims.

I once read a good book by a Presbyterian missionary regarding Christian witnessing to Muslims, but it didn't really get into the differences among different sects. It was more basic in its approach.

Any help would be appreciated for this curious mind.


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## Hamalas (Sep 11, 2013)

All Muslims believe in Jihad. However, some interpret this as a spiritual Jihad (aka the more liberal Muslims) while others see it as a full cultural/military Jihad. (At least that is my understanding).


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## Contra_Mundum (Sep 11, 2013)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_schools_and_branches


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## Poimen (Sep 12, 2013)

One author (a former Muslim, now a Christian) has written that Islam is like a ladder. One can ascend the ladder or stay at the bottom. Those who stay at the bottom are less radical or moderate Muslims. Those who ascend the ladder come closer and closer to the ideal: jihad of a violent nature. Ultimately, any Muslims may be radicalized since, according to the author, this is the consistent Islamic worldview (as born out by history and the teachings of the Quran). 

The book is available here. 

His website is here.


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## Reformguy (Sep 12, 2013)

Sept 2nd through 6th R. C. Sproul's _Renewing Your Mind_ had a series of podcasts on "Dark Side of Islam". You can get from iTunes.


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## Somerset (Sep 12, 2013)

I believe the koran is not consistent, Muhammod appears to have changed his mind on a number of issues. Generally speaking, the latter part of the koran is more extreme than the earlier.


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## Covenant Joel (Sep 12, 2013)

The primary "official" distinctions would be between Sunni (85% globally) and Shi'a (15% globally), with Sufi being a third mystic-type category that can fit in either of the former two. Within Sunni and Shi'a you have a wide range of approaches.

There are many good books out there on these things (_The Prophet and the Messiah_ by Chawkat Moucarry is helpful, as is _Muslims and Christians at the Table_ by Bruce McDowell and Anees Zaka.

But on a more personal level, allow me to relate a few of my experiences:

I play basketball with a group of guys here that would all, legally, culturally, and nominally, be considered "Muslims." But within that group, there are some serious differences. Before we play basketball, a handful stop and do their evening prayers. They are also some of the kindest men there. Then there are a number that drink booze, cuss like sailors, and aren't all that pleasant to be around. But they would all profess to be "Muslim." None of them are violent or extremist, but some are practicing and some are not. They would all interpret away the violent passages of the Qur'an in one way or another.

At the gym where I work out, the friendliest, kindest man I've met has a long period and probably takes a pretty traditional view of the Qur'an, but he too would reject violence through one manner of interpretation or another.

Then I have two friends that are either officially or unofficially with the M Brotherhood or Salafis. They are more hardcore in their beliefs, more interested in bringing others to agree with them, and much stricter than most (won't eat at restaurants/cafes where people are smoking). They are kind to me, I get along with them well. They would not agree with the extremists such as Al-Qaida, but they probably do want Islamic Law to rule the world.

That's just a snippet of my life. I rub shoulders with a lot of different kinds of people. As J.H. Bavinck said years ago (approximately), "You never meet Islam; you only ever meet a Muslim and his Islam."


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## Tripel (Sep 12, 2013)

I'm interested in learning more about this topic. It's easy to point at certain texts in the Koran and say that _true_ Muslims should be jihadists. However I'd like to learn more about the Koran as a whole.

After all, a person with very little biblical knowledge could pull out a handful of passages and argue that _true_ Christianity is a terribly violent religion that promotes the slaughter of the wicked and instructs people to hate their parents. Of course it would be a poor argument, but I can only say that because I have a better understanding of the Bible as a whole.


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## Peairtach (Sep 12, 2013)

Tripel said:


> I'm interested in learning more about this topic. It's easy to point at certain texts in the Koran and say that _true_ Muslims should be jihadists. However I'd like to learn more about the Koran as a whole.
> 
> After all, a person with very little biblical knowledge could pull out a handful of passages and argue that _true_ Christianity is a terribly violent religion that promotes the slaughter of the wicked and instructs people to hate their parents. Of course it would be a poor argument, but I can only say that because I have a better understanding of the Bible as a whole.



Have you read the Koran? It's not a very scintillating read, but much shorter than the Bible. 


Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## JoannaV (Sep 12, 2013)

Covenant Joel said:


> As J.H. Bavinck said years ago (approximately), "You never meet Islam; you only ever meet a Muslim and his Islam."



That kind of sums up what I think.
Islam is a false religion: there is no _true_ Islam.
The koran I own is not a real one, it is just a translation aka interpretation, so I don't know to what extent it faithfully represents the original. Just one word translated slightly different can change context, and make it harder to figure out what Muhammad's meaning was. Plus the koran is not a book like the Bible, written for all Christians in all times, but was written at a specific time in history without divine knowledge of the future. So you are limited in your ability to predict what Muhammad would have said in our current global culture...and Muslims can literally interpret it in several ways. You can say certain passages only apply in certain situations.


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## Hamalas (Sep 12, 2013)

Covenant Joel said:


> The primary "official" distinctions would be between Sunni (85% globally) and Shi'a (15% globally), with Sufi being a third mystic-type category that can fit in either of the former two. Within Sunni and Shi'a you have a wide range of approaches.
> 
> There are many good books out there on these things (_The Prophet and the Messiah_ by Chawkat Moucarry is helpful, as is _Muslims and Christians at the Table_ by Bruce McDowell and Anees Zaka.
> 
> ...



This is a great perspective and one which I've found echoed in my own experience. I've had numerous interactions with Muslims ranging from friendship with one Muslim for whom Islam basically meant he wouldn't eat pork or drink alcohol to actually being attacked by a mob of Muslims when on a missions trip to South East Asia (it was actually my first missions trip!) because we were working with local Christians in their village. I would encourage you to start with the individual and work from there. Don't have too many preconceived notions about what they do or do not believe.


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## Loopie (Sep 12, 2013)

I think it is also important to keep in mind that different groups of Muslims will 'appeal' to different Hadith (teachings and sayings of Mohammed) in defense of their particular position. To be perfectly honest, I think that the Quran is inconsistent and unclear in a lot of its positions. In order to deal with the inconsistencies, one has to look to various collections of Hadith in order to justify either an extremist or non-violent position. Of course, there are several Surahs in the Quran that are difficult to interpret in a non-violent way. Perhaps my position is a bit skewed because for the past 5 years all I have done is fight against Muslim extremists. I have gotten to understand their position fairly well by reading some of the things they have written, and by attending several anti-terrorism seminars put forth by the Department of Defense. Quite simply, I think that both the violent and non-violent positions can make appeal to the Quran and the Hadith. Yet since those texts are uninspired, there will be a level of inconsistency and self-contradiction involved that neither side would really be able to get the upper hand over the other in a debate. Just my two cents.


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## jwithnell (Sep 13, 2013)

> I believe the koran is not consistent, Muhammod appears to have changed his mind on a number of issues. Generally speaking, the latter part of the koran is more extreme than the earlier.



This is actually a very important point -- Allah may be inconsistent, even to the point of denying paradise to someone who has otherwise done everything "right." The latter portions of the Koran supercede the earlier portions, which is critical to remember when people want to quote the earlier passages to demonstrate a peaceful religion. 

That said, I suppose how one acts as a Muslim is largely determined by upbringing and whether or not a choice is made to follow a more radicalized tenet. The same could be said for most religious groups. I was in college during the Iran hostage crisis, and we had a bunch of students on campus who were terrified of being sent home to Iran. They were convinced they'd be dead the minute they stepped off the airplane. I had a very cordial relationship with several. I think they appreciated that my faith called me to a certain moral standard.


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## MichaelNZ (Oct 12, 2013)

In the book _Leaving Islam: Apostates Speak Out, _Ibn Warraq categorises Islam into 3 groups: Islam I, Islam II and Islam III. What's sad about the book is that the majority of ex-Muslims who give their testimonies of leaving Islam are now atheists - they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater.


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## kvanlaan (Oct 12, 2013)

While it may be different things to different folks, as I understand it, the end game is all the same, no matter which branch they belong to: the return of the Caliphate and Imam al Madhi. It's not unlike Christianity in that way, in that no matter which denomination you belong to, you're looking forward to the return of the Christ. (I may be wrong but have read up on it a little more than a bit...)


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## Covenant Joel (Oct 12, 2013)

kvanlaan said:


> While it may be different things to different folks, as I understand it, the end game is all the same, no matter which branch they belong to: the return of the Caliphate and Imam al Madhi. It's not unlike Christianity in that way, in that no matter which denomination you belong to, you're looking forward to the return of the Christ. (I may be wrong but have read up on it a little more than a bit...)



I don't think that is accurate. Sunnis (85%) do not believe in the Imam al Mahdi, as that is a specifically Shi'a doctrine (the dominant Shi'a group believes in 12 authoritative imams, the last of which went into hiding and will reappear).

I am not sure that all would agree about the return of the Caliphate. Most Sunnis that I have met believe it is Jesus that will return at the end of history to judge the world (though some will quote random hadiths that indicate that he will break a cross, symbolically showing he didn't die on it). Obviously, they think Islam will win out in the end. But I'm fairly confident that not all (not sure of percentages though) would agree that the caliphate will return in history.


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## One Little Nail (Oct 12, 2013)

I actually thought there were only two types of Muhammadans there was the GOOD type & the BAD type
from our christian perspective a GOOD Muhammadan was one that didn't want to kill you.
from a islamic fundamentalist viewpoint he would be considered a BAD Muhammadan.

reminds me of a joke I once heard there was this christian missionary who went to the Middle East were upon
arriving he met a Muhammadan and told him that he was prepared to die for his Faith, the Muhammadan retorted
to the missionary and said that he was prepared to Kill him for his Faith. boom boom


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## Leslie (Oct 13, 2013)

There is a book available on Kindle that opened my eyes to the differences and helped me make sense of the world news. It's The Closing of the Muslim Mind. It gives the history of the development of the Islamist movement when it first diverged from mainstream Islam and has now become dominant. An excellent book that addresses folk Islam is The Unseen Face of Islam. It's not on Kindle as far as I know.


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## Covenant Joel (Oct 13, 2013)

Leslie said:


> There is a book available on Kindle that opened my eyes to the differences and helped me make sense of the world news. It's The Closing of the Muslim Mind. It gives the history of the development of the Islamist movement when it first diverged from mainstream Islam and has now become dominant. An excellent book that addresses folk Islam is The Unseen Face of Islam. It's not on Kindle as far as I know.



_The Closing of the Muslim Mind_ was very insightful. It really explains many more cultural elements than just the fundamentalist one per se. It shows how the Mut'azilite/Asharite controversy led to the cultural/civilizational decline in the Muslim world from the post-medieval period. Every day I can still see the effects of that discussion.

For those who don't know, the controversy was in some ways similar to the free will/divine sovereignty discussion in Christian theology, though it also dealt with reason/revelation and so on. The Asharite position won the day, and is now in the majority, such that essentially they say that God controls everything to the extent that there can be no true cause and effect. I.e., you light a match, and the reason it lit was not because of the chemical reaction/friction, but because God lit it.

That extreme view won out and we are still seeing the effects of it. Now, of course, your average Sunni Muslim has likely not heard of that discussion, and he likely wouldn't exactly agree to what I've just described. But the effects on society have been long lasting.

There is much to learn about the types of Muslims (unlike post 17). I may quoted it before, but as J.H. Bavinck said, "You never come into contact with a religion but an adherent's religion. You never come into contact with Muhammadanism, but you do come into contact with a Muslim and his Muhammadanism."

The best thing we could do is to get to know the Muslims around us, befriend them, listen to them. I'm convinced that we need more Reformed people doing that, because robust Reformed theology has solid answers to the questions that many Muslims usually ask Christians.


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