# What does your minister wear in the pulpit?



## Andres

Had a nice discussion with some brothers last Lord's Day about different options of dress for ministers in the pulpit. We concluded (I think) that there isn't really a right/wrong answer, within reason. It seems most ministers have varying reasons for their choice, so out of curiosity, I'd like to know: 1) what does your minister wear in the pulpit? 2) If you are a minister, what is your reasoning for your choice of attire in the pulpit?


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## Jack K

Slacks, dress shirt and tie. In my town, this makes him more formally dressed that 95% of people you'll encounter downtown on a weekday. So he's clearly dressing up for the task, yet by staying in shirt sleeves he's not overdoing it. Seems right to me.


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## ZackF

Suit and tie for Sunday AM. PM service he wears slacks and shirt.


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## Kevin

Jeans and a collared shirt. No tie. Sometimes a jacket, sometimes a sweater, sometimes just a shirt. 

I live in a very casual place. Even bankers wear jeans with a jacket and no tie. I am trying to avoid distraction with my dress. 

On weekdays I occasionally wear a clergy shirt with jeans. 

If I could wear what I preferred then Probably a Geneva gown.


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## Gforce9

Suit, summer or winter.


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## Andres

Kevin said:


> If I could wear what I preferred then Probably a Geneva gown.



Does this mean that your congregation prefers you not wear the Geneva gown? Have they vocalized this and what was their reasoning if you don't mind me asking?


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## SolaScriptura

I typically wear dress casual - nice pants, long sleeve button down shirt, no tie. I keep suit-wearing to a minimum.


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## PreservedKillick

Our pastors wear very conservative suits and ties (dark suits, ties with nothing more exciting than stripes.) Many of the men in the congregation wear suits or at least sport coats, so they don't really stand out.


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## earl40

SolaScriptura said:


> I typically wear dress casual - nice pants, long sleeve button down shirt, no tie. I keep suit-wearing to a minimum.



Do you have a camouflage suit?


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## Matthew1344

Wears stuff from gap and old Navy I think. He doesn't dress sloppy.


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## Edward

SolaScriptura said:


> I typically wear dress casual - nice pants, long sleeve button down shirt, no tie. I keep suit-wearing to a minimum.



You don't wear a uniform?


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## Kevin

Andres said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I could wear what I preferred then Probably a Geneva gown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that your congregation prefers you not wear the Geneva gown? Have they vocalized this and what was their reasoning if you don't mind me asking?
Click to expand...


Andres, other than my wife I doubt anyone even knows what a geneva Gown is! My congregation is only a bit over 2 years old. And only my own children have been raised in a presbyterian or reformed church. Of the 50 or so that we have now I have baptized 1/3 of them. Since the majority are new converts or previously unchurched xns none are aware of the various varieties of clergy dress or the reasons for or against nany position.

For our local context I am considered "dressed up" each Sunday. To dress differently would be to stand out and make my attire the focus rather than the message.


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## Bill The Baptist

Kevin said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
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> 
> 
> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> If I could wear what I preferred then Probably a Geneva gown.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Does this mean that your congregation prefers you not wear the Geneva gown? Have they vocalized this and what was their reasoning if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Andres, other than my wife I doubt anyone even knows what a geneva Gown is! My congregation is only a bit over 2 years old. And only my own children have been raised in a presbyterian or reformed church. Of the 50 or so that we have now I have baptized 1/3 of them. Since the majority are new converts or previously unchurched xns none are aware of the various varieties of clergy dress or the reasons for or against nany position.
> 
> For our local context I am considered "dressed up" each Sunday. To dress differently would be to stand out and make my attire the focus rather than the message.
Click to expand...


Since Scripture does not give a clear mandate on dress in the pulpit, the guiding principle should be not to distract from the message. In some congregations, not wearing a suit and tie would be very distracting. In others, like mine, wearing a suit and tie would make me stick out like a sore thumb.


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## Jake

He wears usually a suit and tie; occasionally a sports coat or blazer instead (with a tie and slacks).


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## SolaScriptura

Edward said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> 
> I typically wear dress casual - nice pants, long sleeve button down shirt, no tie. I keep suit-wearing to a minimum.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You don't wear a uniform?
Click to expand...


I only preach in uniform when I'm in the field or deployed. In a chapel worship context we wear civilian attire.


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## Quatchu

Geneva Gown, when I first started at the church a suit and tie. However about 2 years ago the switch was made.


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## whirlingmerc

More high church Presbyterians tend to view the Geneva gown as having more dignity. Churches leaning toward respectfully going at least business casual go suit or tie. Churches trying to reach out to younger people and have people feel more comfortable in church tend to go casual

It's not a right or wrong. Allot has to do with the audience and their cultural perception. What is seen as necessary to honor God by some might be a barrier alienating others

The gown is seen as a special dignity for some and might alienate others as anachronistic Some groups who might be more casual all week, Koreans and Blacks might really dress in their best suits on Sunday No tie is welcoming to some people particularly younger people and might alienate some who see it as undignified and alienate If I pray or read scripture I would probably wear suit or tie, but I almost always wear at least a tie to church but that's more because I'm comfortable that way. If I thought a church would be uncomfortable with me wearing a tie I would not wear it.


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## Unoriginalname

Oddly enough the only time I had a pastor who wore a geneva gown was as a child when I was a baptist. My pastor tends to where suits.


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## Andres

Kevin said:


> My congregation is only a bit over 2 years old. And only my own children have been raised in a presbyterian or reformed church. Of the 50 or so that we have now I have baptized 1/3 of them. Since the majority are new converts or previously unchurched xns none are aware of the various varieties of clergy dress or the reasons for or against nany position.



That's wonderful to hear!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

I wear a Geneva gown with a shirt and tie underneath.


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## nicnap

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> I wear a Geneva gown with a shirt and tie underneath.



Same here, but I wear pants and shoes too.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian




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## N. Eshelman

I wear a suit and a tie. Maybe twice a year I wear Khakis, tie, and a jacket. I would not be opposed to wearing a Genevan gown, but it is a rare sight in a Reformed Presbyterian Church in the US and Canada.


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## Puritan Sailor

Suit and tie during the winter, same suit and tie (minus the jacket) in the summer.


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## Narthex

Sports coat
Untucked collared shirt
Jeans


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## Reformed Covenanter

I _prefer_ the clergy to wear clerical collars. Since it is culturally recognised as the standard form of clerical dress in Northern Ireland, I see no good reason for men to depart from it. Although I would agree with Andrew that, in the final analysis, it is not really important as long as the standard of dress is modest.


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## NaphtaliPress

When did PCUSA ministers begin to wear the Genevan gown? It doesn't look like Miller, Alexander or Hodge wore them as they are pictured with collars. Did this, contrary to the name, actually come in with the liturgical innovations (church calendar, liturgical colors, etc.) of the early 20th century? I have an anecdotal story from probably the 1920s. Apparently when they got a new minister at the First PCUSA of El Paso he brought the practice of wearing a gown. My great grandfather and my mother's family attended there. The story goes that his reaction was to say "this smacks of the pope!" I can only assume it was a Genevan gown but it may have been more than that?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

I asked my grandfather about this before he died and he told me that in the PCUS, in West Virginia at least, it was a post-WWII thing. They also brought in the stoles (which are ubiquitous now).


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## NaphtaliPress

So, the theory might be advanced that the tradition of a "Genevan" gown conservative Presbyterians may take from the PCUSA has just as odious a history as other practices Presbyterians never had before the liberal decline? Church calendar, colors, more liturgical worship, etc.


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## KMK

Why isn't there a Hawaiian shirt option? Typical East Coast bias!


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## jambo

Our minister dresses casually. If I am preaching then I wear jeans and a shirt but never a tie. If I am invited to speak in another church, unless I am familiar with it, then I would wear a suit and tie.


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## JimmyH

*Reverend D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones on wearing a gown in the pulpit*



Finally found Reverend D. Martyn Lloyd-Jones on wearing a gown in the pulpit. I have given the portion on the wearing of a gown in context, so the Doctor begins with a comparison of practices of other denominations.

Preaching And Preachers, pages 159 - 160 ;



> They were conscious of the fact that the pulpit, the church, had lost her authority and they began to search for a way of regaining and restoring that. But they, from the Protestant standpoint, took an entirely wrong step. They said that the way to restore authority was to remove the preacher or minister farther away from the people. The way to do this was to put vestments of various descriptions upon him to emphasise the priestly and the mysterious element in his functioning.
> 
> In other words they tried to build up his authority in this outward spectacular manner, they called him a priest and claimed that he had a special authority through the sacraments and so on. Let us grant that the motive was good, but they took a false step which led in the end to a depreciation of preaching and to a false emphasis upon sacraments and in many cases upon the mere aesthetic aspect of worship.
> 
> As for the non-episcopal churches in the last century it seems to me that they also made a false move; they believed that the key to authority in the pulpit was scholarship. Now scholarship is obviously of great value and importance; but scholarship alone will not give authority to the preacher.
> 
> It will give him standing among other scholars and make him attractive to 'the wise'; but that is not what is needed primarily in the pulpit. The prime and greatest need in the pulpit is spiritual authority. I have already said that the abler a man is the better preacher he should be.
> 
> Knowledge and culture are invaluable but only on condition that they are used as servants and handmaidens; in and of themselves they do not give authority. There is but one thing that gives a preacher authority, and that is that he be 'filled with the Holy Spirit'. The history of the Church throughout the centuries and especially during the last hundred years proves and substantiates what I am saying.
> 
> At this point I would add a word which may come as a surprise to some, and indeed sound almost ridiculous in view of what I have been saying. I believe it is good and right for a preacher to wear a gown in the pulpit. How do I reconcile that with what I have just been saying about spiritual authority ? The gown to me is a sign of the call, a sign of the fact that a man has been 'set apart' to do this work. It is no more than that, but it is that.
> 
> Of course I must hastily add that while I believe in wearing a gown in the pulpit I do not believe in wearing a hood on the gown! The wearing of a hood calls attention to the man and his ability, not to his call. It is not a sign of office but a sign of the man's scholastic achievements ; so one has a B.D. gown, another a D.D. gown, another an M.A. and so on. That is but confusion ; but above all it distracts attention from the spiritual authority of the preacher. Wear a gown but never a hood !



View attachment 4077


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## reaganmarsh

On Sunday mornings I always wear dress slacks and a tie. If it's warm, I often wear a dress jacket (though our A/C has been irregular this year at church, so I've worn the jacket only about half the time). If it's cold, I wear a nice sweater. Sunday evenings are much more relaxed, so I'll often still wear the tie and sweater, but almost never a jacket. For Wednesday evening prayer, I'll wear slacks/nice khakis and a dress shirt (ie, "business casual") -- basically whatever I wore to work that morning. 

I've only got 2 suits so I wear them primarily for funerals or "special occasions." I basically rotate the jackets and sweaters week-to-week to keep the clothes fresh and nice. 

In my context (SW Georgia), to dress much differently would distract folks and create unnecessary problems.


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## jwithnell

The Geneva gown was definitely part of the mid century United Presbyterian and PCUS churches in which I was reared, even when they started to try to be "relevant. "


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## matt01

reaganmarsh said:


> In my context (SW Georgia), to dress much differently would distract folks and create unnecessary problems.



This is the important thing to remember. Not all are in the same environment. As long as the clothing allows for reverent worsip, without distractions, it shouldn't matter whether one wears a Geneva gown, suit & tie, slacks and sport coat, or even jeans...


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## reaganmarsh

matt01 said:


> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> 
> In my context (SW Georgia), to dress much differently would distract folks and create unnecessary problems.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the important thing to remember. Not all are in the same environment. As long as the clothing allows for reverent worsip, without distractions, it shouldn't matter whether one wears a Geneva gown, suit & tie, slacks and sport coat, or even jeans...
Click to expand...


Yes indeed. Although, I would love to wear a Geneva gown to preach in someday. That would be cool.


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## Tim

I am not sure I buy this reasoning that people are "distracted" by a suit or similar types of clothing. See below. If this is the normal practice for NFL Football broadcasts, I don't see how it could suddenly become distracting for folks in a worship service.


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## MichaelNZ

Our pastor wears either a suit or just a good shirt and tie with good trousers.


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## reaganmarsh

Hi Tim,

Perhaps I didn't communicate clearly in my post above. I basically wear a "poor man's version" of suit and tie because, well, I'm a poor man! 

Were I to dress differently (ie, more casually), given my Bible-belt context, people would not respond well. There's a rather strong cultural expectation here (for better or worse) that pastors dress up for church. When in Rome...so I do, seeking not to put a stumblingblock in someone's path over so eternally inconsequential a matter as my clothing. 

They've already got a pretty major hurdle in listening to my attempts at Reformed expository gospel-centered preaching. I don't see wisdom in making things harder in terms of their expectations. 

Does that help to clarify?


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## Tim

reaganmarsh said:


> Does that help to clarify?



Brother, I wasn't responding specifically to your post, although I thank you for your contributions to this thread. I was observing the disconnect between supposedly distracting suits in church with the ubiquity of suits in television news, sports, etc.


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## MW

Reformed Covenanter said:


> I _prefer_ the clergy to wear clerical collars. Since it is culturally recognised as the standard form of clerical dress in Northern Ireland, I see no good reason for men to depart from it. Although I would agree with Andrew that, in the final analysis, it is not really important as long as the standard of dress is modest.



This is true in general in Australia, but it tends to be a hindrance to ministry because the reformed and evangelical churches look upon it as popish.


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## reaganmarsh

Tim said:


> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> 
> Does that help to clarify?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Brother, I wasn't responding specifically to your post, although I thank you for your contributions to this thread. I was observing the disconnect between supposedly distracting suits in church with the ubiquity of suits in television news, sports, etc.
Click to expand...


Gotcha! Oops. Thanks for clarifying for me! Ha! 

And that is a good observation you raise. 

Grace to you, brother. Have a wonderful Sabbath evening.


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## C. M. Sheffield

I customarily wear a black suit with a white shirt and tie that is conservative in color (i.e. navy, burgundy, dark green). I aim to be appriately dressed for the dignity of my office and work of I have to do while at the same time looking as plain and unremarkable as possible. I have no problem with pulpit gowns, but I would not favor them in situations where the practice creates a distraction from the preaching or causes any controversy.


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## Gforce9

nicnap said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> 
> I wear a Geneva gown with a shirt and tie underneath.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Same here, but I wear pants and shoes too.
Click to expand...


I sure hope ministers everywhere would heed this advice.....especially the shoes part.........


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## ProtestantBankie

My minister wears the Clerical collar. 

This is the standard historically expected of ministers in Scotland, although in more recent times there has been a movement away from it. Led by influential Free Church professors.


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## Peairtach

My minister wears a sober suit and tie at the Sabbath services.

At the midweek prayer meeting, where there is also an exposition of the Word, he usually wears casual but smart.


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## Marrow Man

I wear a suit and tie. Sometimes it is a 3-piece suit (they had a sale at Men's Wearhouse about 5 years ago and I bought two). Often I will wear a bow tie.

Incidentally, in our presbytery a few years ago, a student under care of presbytery delivered a sermon in a dress shirt and khakis (no tie, no coat). He was mildly rebuked by one of the older respected ministers in the presbytery for failing to honor the office.


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## Kevin

Marrow Man said:


> I wear a suit and tie. Sometimes it is a 3-piece suit (they had a sale at Men's Wearhouse about 5 years ago and I bought two). Often I will wear a bow tie.
> 
> Incidentally, in our presbytery a few years ago, a student under care of presbytery delivered a sermon in a dress shirt and khakis (no tie, no coat). He was mildly rebuked by one of the older respected ministers in the presbytery for failing to honor the office.



I trust that the "older respected" minister was suitably reminded by his brothers that the office is not honoured by what a 
man wears, but by his life and message?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

It is possible to dress in a way that is inappropriate, regardless of our culture's descent into thinking everything is about being informal and "comfortable". 

I realize I am a stick-in-the-mud and a grumpy-pants, (and no I wasn't the old guy who groused about the man's clothes) but whatever happened to showing a little respect for the situation and to your elders?


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## Kevin

Ben, if you were in the Maritimes a dress shirt and trousers would be showing a "little respect". Wearing khakis on the other hand would just be showing everyone that you were an American.


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## Edward

Kevin said:


> I trust that the "older respected" minister was suitably reminded by his brothers that the office is not honoured by what a
> man wears, but by his life and message?



What a man wears can be evidence of his life.


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## Kevin

Sure. If he wore a clown costume or a SOA "cut".

But Tim said he was dressed appropriately. Just not in a suit.


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## Andres

KMK said:


> Why isn't there a Hawaiian shirt option? Typical East Coast bias!



It's the last option. And I'm all Southern-biased and more specifically Texas biased.


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## MW

Edward said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I trust that the "older respected" minister was suitably reminded by his brothers that the office is not honoured by what a
> man wears, but by his life and message?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What a man wears can be evidence of his life.
Click to expand...


Lord Polonius -- "For the apparel oft proclaims the man."

Wrote a man who wore the Elizabethan white ruff.


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## kodos

Regarding this young minister. I'm not so sure that I would have made the comment that he was dressed in a way that dishonored the office (but I wasn't there). 

That said, he probably wasn't dressed appropriately for the _audience_. I'm not the world's most formal person (ask Andrew), but if I were showing up to preach at Presbytery I would probably have sense enough to put a suit on.

I wouldn't show up in my Wedding Suit or a Geneva Gown to preach to certain audiences, and I wouldn't show up to preach in Khakis to others. Either, in certain situations would distract from the Word of God if the minister looks out of place. If I were in Ireland and were a minister I would adopt the dress of the clergy there, even though I might be uncomfortable (personally) with a clerical collar. In my mind: why make _anything_ a distraction from the preaching of God's Word?

If I were to be a minister at my former PCA church, while I would be uncomfortable personally with the Geneva Gown, I would don one. At my current church, I would wear a suit and tie. If I were at my first church in California, I would probably do the Khakis and maybe "Ben Glaser" sweater vest thing. 

I just think that's what a servant does.


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## Edward

kodos said:


> That said, he probably wasn't dressed appropriately for the audience. I'm not the world's most formal person (ask Andrew), but if I were showing up to preach at Presbytery I would probably have sense enough to put a suit on.
> 
> I wouldn't show up in my Wedding Suit or a Geneva Gown to preach to certain audiences, and I wouldn't show up to preach in Khakis to others. Either, in certain situations would distract from the Word of God if the minister looks out of place. If I were in Ireland and were a minister I would adopt the dress of the clergy there, even though I might be uncomfortable (personally) with a clerical collar. In my mind: why make anything a distraction from the preaching of God's Word?



Well put.


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