# Seminary emphasis - chaplain wannabes



## matt01 (Nov 15, 2008)

Coming off of SolaScriptura's thread about serving as a chaplain, what would be the best emphasis for a chaplain to pursue during their MDiv? I realize that the emphasis should be preaching, but also understand that chaplains are responsible for many other duties...Here are several focuses offered through one MDiv program:

+ biblical studies
+ evangelism and church growth
+ leadership
+ pastoral counseling
+ pastoral/preaching
+ cross-cultural/missions
+ theology/apologetics

I am just thinking about the auxiliary responsibilities that a chaplain might face, and whether other training would be beneficial.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Good question.

I know of many chaplains who've received their degrees from what I can only describe as a "fly by night" type of school... And you can tell. 

So, first of all, I recommend going to a solid school where you'll learn above all else how to think Christianly and to critique methods based on their presuppositions. A lot of the ills within the chaplaincy, as I seem them, can be chalked up to theological anemia or myopia on the part of chaplains. (There are a lot of well-meaning guys who "love Jesus," but they just can't seem to see how certain counseling methods or certain activities are really sub-Christian and therefore undermining their own attempts to be Gospel oriented.)

In the chaplaincy the activity which will take up the majority of your ministerial time is definitely counseling. 

It is within the context of counseling that you'll do most of your evangelism, most of your apologetics work, and most of your teaching. 

Counseling as a matter of listening, asking good questions, interpreting what you hear, finding good biblical material, responding well, giving good advice, etc... that largely comes from experience. A few courses in biblical counseling will give you what you need to help get your feet wet. The #1 thing that you need in terms of preparation is a good diet of Scripture memorization. 

By far the overwhelming majority of the people you counsel will not give a flying rip about what the Bible has to say. Thus you've got to have such a good grasp of the teaching of the Bible - sound theology - that you can give them biblical teaching even when you're not quoting the Bible. 

You'll have lots of opportunities to do evangelism and apologetics work - I counsel at least 3 or 4 people a week who buy into the Joel Osteen or Joyce Meyers nonsense and you've got to carefully and gently point out the errors and direct them to truth.

Additionally, you'll have just about as many opportunities to preach as you want. You wouldn't believe the number of chaplains who do everything they can to NOT have to preach in Sunday morning services. And even when you're not in a chapel service - at least at Bragg - there's hardly a week that goes by without some local church looking for a chaplain to be a guest preacher. In these contexts most of your audience is NOT Reformed. You've got to teach them the Reformed faith, but you've got to know it so well that you can break it down and teach it to them like the intellectual children many of them are (some people break things down by using overly simplistic vocabulary... I prefer to make things simple by way of analogy). 

All this to say:

1. Go to a school where thinking Christianly about all of life is taught (A school like SBTS... I believe much of their degree can be done online.)

2. You need to have an intimate knowledge of your theology and a steady diet of Scripture memorization.

3. I highly recommend that you emphasize in biblical or theological studies and just take a couple courses in counseling to help get your feet wet.


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## matt01 (Nov 15, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> In the chaplaincy the activity which will take up the majority of your ministerial time is definitely counseling.
> 
> 3. I highly recommend that you emphasize in biblical or theological studies and just take a couple courses in counseling to help get your feet wet.



Thanks for the informative post.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

Just a few weeks ago I had the privilege to attend a presentation by CH (MG) Carver (Chief of Chaplains US Army). He mentioned two things about new chaplains and their seminary/training. He feels that a new chaplain should have already worked out their theological views and have put them into practice. It is then the Army's duty to show how to incorporate those views into the Army system. Unfortunately more and more he is getting chaplains who have online degrees and they have no real world ministry experience. He is actually getting guys that have never counseled or preached. So the Army is having to "teach" these basic skills to their chaplains which means military training is being short changed.


So I say all this to say that a new chaplain or chaplain wannabe should pursue a degree that hammers out all their views, but also affords/requires extensive hands on/realworld application of their ministerial skills.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 15, 2008)

SS,

Anything you can tell me about the Navy Chaplaincy?


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Just a few weeks ago I had the privilege to attend a presentation by CH (MG) Carver (Chief of Chaplains US Army). He mentioned two things about new chaplains and their seminary/training. He feels that a new chaplain should have already worked out their theological views and have put them into practice. It is then the Army's duty to show how to incorporate those views into the Army system. Unfortunately more and more he is getting chaplains who have online degrees and they have no real world ministry experience. He is actually getting guys that have never counseled or preached. So the Army is having to "teach" these basic skills to their chaplains which means military training is being short changed.
> 
> 
> So I say all this to say that a new chaplain or chaplain wannabe should pursue a degree that hammers out all their views, but also affords/requires extensive hands on/realworld application of their ministerial skills.



CH Carver is definitely on to something... and it is one of the reasons why I'm opposed to on-line degrees. 

The number one problem is that too many chaplains simply aren't prepared to handle the Word of good with surgeon-like skill and precision. Their knowledge of theology and ability to integrate it into life is minimal. Thus they find it hard to resist the "lowest common denominatorism" of the chaplaincy. 

But then again, many of these people choose these "fly by night" programs with their minimal theology requirements and their lack of original language requirements precisely because they don't appreciate the need for them... and their ministry suffers at the theological and philosophical level for it.

Concerning the practical skills of preaching and counseling... the army has a requirement that a person has 2 years of full-time POST MDiv ministry experience as a prerequisite to being able to apply. However... the dire shortage of chaplains has resulted in that requirement being waived in almost every case... Including my own. (I had the equivilant of 4 years of full-time ministry, but none of it was POST MDiv...)

I do think that a part of your training needs to be practical skills work. I encourage candidates to begin preaching in nursing homes or jails or hospitals... anywhere they can. A problem is that many churches won't let a seminarian do counseling, so getting that type of training without being in a formal ministry position may be tough. I got my experience in the chaplain candidate program. I did a unit of CPE... (a totally pagan program at the philosophical level...) in terms of practical exposure and experience... man, it was like being pushed into the lake and being told to swim or drown. But I learned a lot.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> SS,
> 
> Anything you can tell me about the Navy Chaplaincy?



Sure... don't do it. 

Seriously, the good thing about the Navy chaplaincy is that you might get to serve with the Marines, and that is a real joy. The Marines really appreciate their chaplains. 

There are, in my mind, three downsides to the Navy chaplaincy. In no particular order:

1. The Navy chaplaincy is cutting jobs. Not the best place to try to make a future. In fact, the Army is the only branch that is growing. More openings = more career advancement opportunities. Also, the sheer number of openings in the Army means they have to be more tolerant of you and your "evangelical idiosyncracies"... 

2. The Navy, as I recall, may culturally permit, but it does not have regulatory protection for chaplains who refuse to pray at a given event if praying would violate their religious convictions. In other words: In the Army, if you are told to pray at a civic event and if you say "I'll pray in Jesus' name" and if they say, "Don't," you can say, "Then find someone else to pray... Sir." and you're protected by regulation. From what I recall, unless things have changed recently, that isn't so in the Navy.

3. This, for me, is the biggest downside: At sea Navy chaplains officially have the role of morale officer. It is their job to organize things like bingo night, etc... for purposes of morale building and totally distinct from a religious orientation. Now, it is bad enough in the army where the people sort of "expect" you to be a cheerleader... but to be in a situation where one of your official duties is to do that? No thank you!


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 15, 2008)

The only way I would be a Navy Chaplain was if I could serve with Marines...

Thanks Rev. Ben.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> The only way I would be a Navy Chaplain was if I could serve with Marines...



That is what I told the chaplain recruiter... I was told (as I already knew) that they can't guarantee that...


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Come on guys. Sign up. I'm trying to orchestrate a massive Reformed takeover. I need your help.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 15, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > The only way I would be a Navy Chaplain was if I could serve with Marines...
> ...



Thanks Rev. Ben...


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Come on guys. Sign up. I'm trying to orchestrate a massive Reformed takeover. I need your help.




Hey I working on it. I commission as a chaplain candidate on the 1st of Dec.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > Come on guys. Sign up. I'm trying to orchestrate a massive Reformed takeover. I need your help.
> ...



Where are you going to go to seminary?

I recommend getting whatever "hooah" badges you want (i.e., Airborne or Air Assault) while a candidate. Unless you've already got them...


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > Just a few weeks ago I had the privilege to attend a presentation by CH (MG) Carver (Chief of Chaplains US Army). He mentioned two things about new chaplains and their seminary/training. He feels that a new chaplain should have already worked out their theological views and have put them into practice. It is then the Army's duty to show how to incorporate those views into the Army system. Unfortunately more and more he is getting chaplains who have online degrees and they have no real world ministry experience. He is actually getting guys that have never counseled or preached. So the Army is having to "teach" these basic skills to their chaplains which means military training is being short changed.
> ...




I totally agree. I had a candidate tell me that I should go to Liberty University and get my Master's done with. It is what he did. It was all about getting the job. Do whatever it takes. Just a mere formality.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > Chaplainintraining said:
> ...



I know... so many guys are like that. Go to a good school, get a good degree. It will pay dividends for you because you'll actually have something to say to the people you counsel and serve.


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## matt01 (Nov 15, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> I totally agree. I had a candidate tell me that I should go to Liberty University and get my Master's done with. It is what he did. It was all about getting the job. Do whatever it takes. Just a mere formality.



Where are you going to attend seminary? Once you are commissioned as a Chaplain Candidate, will you be transitioned to the reserves, or are you in the reserves already?

Is there any benefit one way or the other for doing seeking a commission as a chaplain candidate in the Reserves versus the National Guard?


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

I am up in the air really about Seminary. I have been accepted to both Southern and Southwestern, WestCal and WestDal, but logistics are really starting to cause problems. This is making me lean towards Whitefield now.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

Chaplain Candidates are only in the IRR, you can choose to go reserve, guard, or active upon completion of degree but until then you in the IRR.


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## matt01 (Nov 15, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> I am up in the air really about Seminary. I have been accepted to both Southern and Southwestern, WestCal and WestDal, but logistics are really starting to cause problems. This is making me lean towards Whitefield now.



I thought it had to be an accredited school, which Whitefield will never be, not to mention it being a total distance school.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 15, 2008)

For purposes of chaplain training, do not do Whitefield. I've already PM'd you...


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 15, 2008)

sans nom said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > I am up in the air really about Seminary. I have been accepted to both Southern and Southwestern, WestCal and WestDal, but logistics are really starting to cause problems. This is making me lean towards Whitefield now.
> ...




Distance school is not a problem. I homeschooled through Accelerated Christian Education which is a self-paced teach yourself style of learning and in Dec. I will graduate from Liberty University with a BA in Religion with 56 of those credit hours coming this year all online. So I know that I can do the distance learning thing.

As for accreditation, the Army does require it, but they are not specific as to what type of accreditation they imply. For example, Liberty is not ATS accredited but I would venture to say that more chaplains graduate from Liberty than from any other single seminary. So it seems that just any type of accreditation is sufficient. I still have to look more into it.


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## Whitefield (Nov 16, 2008)

As a former Army chaplain (in another time) here are my 

preparation: counseling, counseling, and more counseling!

And I think having an endorsing agency that has worked well with the Chief's office is more important than the seminary you went to.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 16, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > SolaScriptura said:
> ...




I got the Airborne, but Air Assault and EMM will have to wait until I am a candidate.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 16, 2008)

Whitefield said:


> As a former Army chaplain (in another time) here are my
> 
> preparation: counseling, counseling, and more counseling!
> 
> And I think having an endorsing agency that has worked well with the Chief's office is more important than the seminary you went to.




I disagree with the last. Harvard is looked very highly upon from the Chief's Office, but Harvard is not going to set me up for theological success in the least. I would much rather have a knock out seminary and have to work a bit with the Chief's office.


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## Whitefield (Nov 16, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> Whitefield said:
> 
> 
> > As a former Army chaplain (in another time) here are my
> ...



That's pretty much what I said in the last sentence .. your endorsing agency is more important than the seminary you went to .. it is the endorsing agency that does the weeding out and then presents its list of recommendations for accessioning to Army chaplaincy.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

Whitefield said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> > Whitefield said:
> ...



I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. But just about any way I read it, I come back with the same thought: I can't emphasize enough how strongly I disagree with you.

For those considering the chaplaincy:

Your endorsing agent "supposedly" gives/ensures quality control over applicants. In reality they are simply middle men who act as the intermediary - or more precisely, as a single point of contact - between the chief of chaplain's office and your denomination. Your endorsing agent doesn't in any way have an impact on how you do your ministry. Some pray for you and provide pastoral support, and if you get in a conflict concerning your beliefs they can sometimes step in to remind the government about the beliefs of your denomination... but really, when it comes down to it, all they do is initially submit a piece of paper saying that you are a "fully qualified" and recognized member of the clergy of a given denomination or religious group. I cannot overstate how insignificant they are in terms of determining one's actual ability to think Christianly, interact with "ministerial effectiveness," or in any way substantially "do the job." The evidence is in just how flaky so many chaplains are in their ministry... But then again, it is woefully niave to think that more than a handful of denominations or religious groups really care about robust Christian theology, and that gets reflected in who becomes the endorsing agent for that group. Beyond that, you can't really "choose" your endorsing agent, unless you're an independent. But if you're committed to a denomination, you're going to go with them. In my case, I have to go with the PRJC. Either that or leave the PCA and get ordained somewhere else.

Of far more - virtually infinitely more - importance in shaping who you are, what you believe about ministry, what you believe about DOING ministry, your philosophical presuppositions and assumptions about counseling, how to counsel, how to preach, etc... will come from your time in training. And that means your time in seminary. So choose wisely. Where you go - the beliefs and values that you're taught and exposed to - will shape you as a person, as a minister. And THOSE are the things that have bearing on the theology and competency you bring to the table in the actual execution of your ministry.

Now, brother, it is possible that I've entirely misconstrued what you were trying to say. If so, please feel free to explain.


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## Whitefield (Nov 17, 2008)

I was not making any reference to effectiveness or job performance ... the only point I was making was for those who want to go into the chaplaincy ... if the endorsing agency doesn't like the seminary you went to and refuses to endorse you .. you are dead in water, regardless what the Chief's office thinks about your seminary. There were many hoops through which I had to jump with my endorsing agency .. I guess each agency has its own guidelines.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

That may be an issue for certain independent endorsers... but for Presbyterian folk, the endorser follows the lead of the presbytery. I've seen folks come from all sorts of liberal schools, but as long as they are personally confessional, their place of education wasn't really an issue for the presbytery. 

But really, for the reasons I already mentioned above, since in this forum I'm addressing conservatively Confessional folks... there are a number of good evangelical schools. Choose one that will train you well.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 17, 2008)

Whitefield said:


> I was not making any reference to effectiveness or job performance ... the only point I was making was for those who want to go into the chaplaincy ... if the endorsing agency doesn't like the seminary you went to and refuses to endorse you .. you are dead in water, regardless what the Chief's office thinks about your seminary. There were many hoops through which I had to jump with my endorsing agency .. I guess each agency has its own guidelines.




Now that I understand your stance a bit more, I have to say I feel your pain. The Baptist General Convention of Texas did not want to endorse me because A) I was not going to Southwestern and B) instead of going to Southwestern I was planning go to that crazy Calvinistic Southern Seminary.

I really do not know why but if you are from TX and you did not attend Southwestern, somehow you are sub-par.

All that aside, I would not trade my theological training just to make my endorser happy. Rather I am just looking for a different endorser.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

Has ARBCA or FIRE started endorsing chaplains?

A few years ago a friend of mine was talking to someone at ARBCA... at the time they did not (then) endorse chaplains, but they were interested in doing so. Perhaps they've got things in motion to become a recognized endorsing agency now.... Either of those groups would be a good way to go if they'll get on the ball and become an endorsing agency.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 17, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Has ARBCA or FIRE started endorsing chaplains?
> 
> A few years ago a friend of mine was talking to someone at ARBCA... at the time they did not (then) endorse chaplains, but they were interested in doing so. Perhaps they've got things in motion to become a recognized endorsing agency now.... Either of those groups would be a good way to go if they'll get on the ball and become an endorsing agency.




The ARBCA does endorse now and have endorsed their first chaplain. I talked to the head guy (can't remember his name) about endorsement to which he said a local church recommending endorsement would be the first step. I went to the closest church (105 miles away) after talking to the pastor. I quickly realized that the distance travled was too much of a problem to overcome. The pastor wanted to do everything the right way and not rush in to things (which I appreciated), but I cannot afford the gas to travel 200+ miles every Sunday to church.


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## matt01 (Nov 17, 2008)

SolaScriptura said:


> Has ARBCA or FIRE started endorsing chaplains?



Lt. Patrick Joyner, the Chaplain for 2nd Recruit Battalion (PI) was the first (and thus far only) chaplain endorsed by ARBCA. He was a former sub officer, if memory serves.



Chaplainintraining said:


> I talked to the head guy (can't remember his name)



Gordon Taylor is the current Coordinator for ARBCA. Bob Selph was in the position previosly, before returning to a pulpit.


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## Notthemama1984 (Nov 17, 2008)

It was Mr. Taylor that I spoke to. Thanks for refreshing my memory.


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## JonathanHunt (Nov 17, 2008)

In the UK, Chaplains are required to have completed several years' pastoral ministry and to be ordained within mainstream denominations.

Which would mean for me, I would have to compromise and become 'recognised' by the Baptist Union of Great Britain! Anyway, thats beside the point.

Is there no requirement that US chaplains have 'real life' pastoral experience before they enter the service?


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## matt01 (Nov 17, 2008)

JonathanHunt said:


> Is there no requirement that US chaplains have 'real life' pastoral experience before they enter the service?



Two years is required, though as someone mentioned above, it is waiverable.


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## SolaScriptura (Nov 17, 2008)

Chaplainintraining said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > Has ARBCA or FIRE started endorsing chaplains?
> ...



You have to be in an ARBCA church to be endorsed by them? Wow... that seems like a stringent requirement given the small number of their churches and the proximity of those churches to a seminary.

Is the Reformed Baptist church in Louisville formally affilliated with ARBCA?


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