# SBTS vs. RTS



## sarjasy (Oct 17, 2007)

Looking for some advice/recommendations. This is my first post, so I'll also introduce myself a bit. I'm currently a student at Southern through their extension site in Northwest Arkansas, enrolled as a M.A.T.S student. Not sure what my exact goals are at this point, but I love theology and writing and would perhaps, someday, like to teach and maybe do some writing. I work full-time, have a mortgage, a family, etc. so relocation is not an option for me at this time. Because of my academic leanings and geographical constraints, I'm a somewhat drawn to RTS's distance M.A.R. which seems to be a little more academically and theologically oriented when comparing the programs side-by-side. A Google search also turns up more M.A.'s from RTS than Southern at academic institutions and sites. My questions are:

1) From what you know, would RTS (as opposed to Southern) be viewed as more academically rigorous?
2) If so, is that factor offset by the fact that for me, the RTS MA would be done largely by distance whereas most of my MA from Southern would be completed face-to-face (via extension and intensive courses), in that distance courses carry a stigma in certain circles?
3) Put simply, which of the two degrees/schools do you think would have more utility in academic circles?

Other factors for me is that RTS is more expensive (I'm Southern Baptist and get the discounts at SBTS) and the RTS MA is 60 hours vs. Southern's 48 hours.

I truly appreciate any thoughts or advice!

Jason


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## RamistThomist (Oct 17, 2007)

I was an M.Div student at Jackson but am now trying to change to the M.A.R. thing on virtual.



> 1) From what you know, would RTS (as opposed to Southern) be viewed as more academically rigorous?



Not necessarily. It really depends on the class and the professor. The apologetics and ethics classes via RTS virtual were tough (but fun!)



> 2) If so, is that factor offset by the fact that for me, the RTS MA would be done largely by distance whereas most of my MA from Southern would be completed face-to-face (via extension and intensive courses), in that distance courses carry a stigma in certain circles?



Normally that would be the case but RTS is pushing the fact that they ARE accredited in Virtual, so I actually think their Virtual program will be fine (but when the Beast arises and the Democrats seize power, accredited theological degrees will be worse than useless).



> 3) Put simply, which of the two degrees/schools do you think would have more utility in academic circles



Tid for tat. It doesn't matter. As long as you can show them a roll of $100s, you will be fine. 


Ok, kidding. Most academic schools will be more impressed with brick and mortar degrees (the faults in a brick and mortar notwithstanding) than they will be in Virtual.


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## RamistThomist (Oct 17, 2007)

Good post, btw. I am in transition on these types of degrees. I am trying to get into the Virtual program.


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## elnwood (Oct 18, 2007)

My two cents? M.A.T.S./M.A.R. aren't really considered highly academic degrees, so it probably doesn't matter. You may want to look at whether you can transfer the credits into an M.Div. program at the same seminary or elsewhere. I would guess, since there is no distance M.Div. at RTS, that the SBTS program would be easier to transfer.


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## sarjasy (Oct 22, 2007)

> Tid for tat. It doesn't matter. As long as you can show them a roll of $100s, you will be fine.




Good point. In fact, if I have a big enough roll of $100's, I might not even need a degree.


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## sarjasy (Oct 22, 2007)

elnwood said:


> My two cents? M.A.T.S./M.A.R. aren't really considered highly academic degrees, so it probably doesn't matter. You may want to look at whether you can transfer the credits into an M.Div. program at the same seminary or elsewhere. I would guess, since there is no distance M.Div. at RTS, that the SBTS program would be easier to transfer.



No, you're right. I might apply to a Th.M. or S.T.M when I'm done (some require only a M.A.), so how my M.A. would be viewed from an academic standpoint matters. Also, a M.A. is fine for certain kinds of writing, but publishers in some cases would be interested in the content of your M.A., as well as where it is from. The RTS M.A. requires a thesis and comps, though the comps are only for "program evaluation" purposes. The SBTS M.A. requires neither, and is 12 hours shorter (48 instead of 60).

It seems to me there is an impression in some circles that explicity reformed schools have a reputation for more academic rigor.

Thanks for your input.


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## elnwood (Oct 22, 2007)

sarjasy said:


> elnwood said:
> 
> 
> > My two cents? M.A.T.S./M.A.R. aren't really considered highly academic degrees, so it probably doesn't matter. You may want to look at whether you can transfer the credits into an M.Div. program at the same seminary or elsewhere. I would guess, since there is no distance M.Div. at RTS, that the SBTS program would be easier to transfer.
> ...



I looked at the curricula of the programs, and they seem comparable. I don't think the thesis and comps count for anything. Nearly all M.Div. programs don't require a thesis.

Neither M.A. has Greek or Hebrew language and exegetical classes, and that would be an issue if you were to apply to Th.M./Ph.D. programs. Right now, I'm in an M.A. program, but it includes Greek and Hebrew exegetical classes in the requirements and it intended to be pre-doctoral, whereas neither of these programs are.


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## sarjasy (Oct 23, 2007)

elnwood said:


> Neither M.A. has Greek or Hebrew language and exegetical classes, and that would be an issue if you were to apply to Th.M./Ph.D. programs. Right now, I'm in an M.A. program, but it includes Greek and Hebrew exegetical classes in the requirements and it intended to be pre-doctoral, whereas neither of these programs are.



Yeah, and a lot of S.T.M.'s/Th.M.'s require Greek/Hebrew, particularly if you go the exgetical route. The S.T.M. that I'm looking at doesn't, but it does require German. I'll probably try to pick that up on my own if I pursue that option. What M.A. program are you in?


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## 3John2 (Oct 23, 2007)

Pardon my ignorance but what does STM stand for?


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 23, 2007)

I've known two people who have taken virtual courses from RTS. One thought it was great - challenging yet it took into account that he is a working adult. The other was disappointed that it seemed to be far less demanding than on campus work. 

The plus side of doing SBTS's distance ed is that you still get to come to a classroom and learn from a professor in person, so you get the priceless dynamic of classroom dialogue. 

Regarding the pedigree... I don't think you can go wrong with SBTS. Mohler has made the school synonymous with Calvinistic Baptist theology. So you'll do fine with any school or church that is baptistic and/or soteriologically Calvinistic in its leanings. I've known a handful of presbyterians who have come through SBTS and (incidentally) we're all more confessional than our peers who've come from either Covenant or RTS Orlando.


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## sarjasy (Oct 24, 2007)

3John2 said:


> Pardon my ignorance but what does STM stand for?



Master of Sacred Theology. At some seminaries, that's the name of the degree beyond the M.A. or M.Div., but before the doctorate. Pretty much the same the same thing as a Th.M. (or M.Th).


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## 3John2 (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks for that reply. I'd just never heard of that. Sorry.


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## mr_burns (Nov 28, 2007)

I just joined the boards the other day, so please forgive me bringing this thread back to life after a month... however, I was an RTS Virtual student for 5 years. When I started I was married and, in the course of school, I worked full time (sometimes 2 jobs) and we moved to a new state and had kids. So, the obvious advantage to the virtual campus is that it moves and adjusts to your life. This is also the disadvantage. With no professor or classmates to nudge you along, classes often get shelved (it is hard to come home from work, spend time with the family, work on the honey-do's, and then sit down and try to digest HOURS of lectures on your ipod). Over my 5 years I bought numerous extensions as I always waited till the end to get the work done. So, for me, the question about RTS is more a question for yourself and your ability to keep up with the work.

Which leads me to a more direct answer to your questions. The RTS Virtual campus is one of only a handful that have accredited programs that allow you to get the degree without going on campus (except twice). I can attest to the fact that the work is challenging. However, I did feel like the grading on the papers was a little weak (either that or I'm a better writer than I think). However, you still have plenty of coursework and TONS of reading. The lectures are now delivered in MP3 (it was tapes when I started) and RTS is really setting the pace for distance education. If you are not sure of the quality of education that is coming out of the program, I am pretty sure they still post student thesis online... go read some and see what the program spits out. I was impressed.

Distance education is a different beast. However, I don't think you lose clout when people discover you attended the virtual campus. The fact is that you attend RTS... you just happen to attend the virtual branch... Also, for what it is worth, when I stopped being virtual and decided to move my family to Orlando to go residential, RTS Virtual seemed to be playing around a lot with webcasting classes. I took Pauline Epistles with Cara on webcast and actually got to ask questions during class and interact with other online students... it was pretty cool. Classes were saved so, if you had to work you could catch up on your own time.

Ok, enough rambling on a month old thread. Hope it helped.

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