# Biblical Cosmology



## Pergamum (Feb 15, 2011)

How would you respond to charges that the Bible taught that we lived on a flat circle or a flat-bottomed dome?


Does the Bible Teach a Spherical Earth


The Flat Earth Myth? It's true that Columbus and most Church Fathers were not flat earthers, but don't start cheering just yet. . .


And what do we do with the Bible verses that speak of the earth being immovable?

Christian Response To "Islam Awareness" : The Flat-Earth Bible


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## Skyler (Feb 15, 2011)

With incredulous laughter.

After I get over that, I point out that the Bible doesn't teach anything about the shape of the earth--whether flat or spherical.

I suppose you could get some intimation from random verses that seem to refer to the flatness or roundness of the earth, but then you could also infer baptism from the dead from Paul's argument for the resurrection. It's simply bad exegesis.


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## lynnie (Feb 15, 2011)

Did Bible writers believe the earth was flat? - ChristianAnswers.Net

Clear references to the circle of the earth, or round earth......


edit- oops, just clicked on your first link and apparently it is to argue with this translation....too long to read now.


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## Pergamum (Feb 15, 2011)

A flat-bottomed dome could also be indicated by the Hebrew "khug" the atheists contend.

---------- Post added at 04:38 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:32 AM ----------

Though, if Isaiah meant this when he wrote of "the circle of the earth" wouldn't he have used "cabab" instead?


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## py3ak (Feb 16, 2011)

Here is a suggestion. The Bible presents the world as belonging to the Lord. In keeping with that, the world is sometimes described in terms appropriate to the tabernacle or temple. Such descriptions might not have anything to do with saying, "The world is shaped like this" but is rather a way of expressing that heaven is God's throne and the earth is His footstool.

But that aside, I don't believe that attempts to reconcile the Bible with today's science are often very fruitful. Since science is constantly changing, at times by revolution, the process of adjustment is continual. Scientists, popularizers, and their followers need to repent of their sin and acknowledge the Lordship of Christ. We should not allow them to pretend that they can sit in judgment on God's word.


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## EverReforming (Feb 16, 2011)

py3ak said:


> Since science is constantly changing, at times by revolution, the process of adjustment is continual. Scientists, popularizers, and their followers need to repent of their sin and acknowledge the Lordship of Christ. We should not allow them to pretend that they can sit in judgment on God's word.



Very true. How many times have we heard from the science community, "We've solved 'such and such', we finally have the definitive answer!" Only to backtrack after another discover later proves them wrong. Just as within any group of people, there will be those in the science community who put their study of science on an idolatrous pedastal and the need of God's grace is no different for them.


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## Pergamum (Feb 16, 2011)

So the sphericity of the globe has not yet been solved?


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## Peairtach (Feb 16, 2011)

I've tried to get a couple of threads going on biblical cosmology and the typology that God has put into the creation, but apart from the recommendation of a book by Meredith Kline, they have failed to take off:

http://www.puritanboard.com/f15/biblical-cosmology-symbolical-spiritual-realities-61733/

http://www.puritanboard.com/f17/under-earth-65861/

By typology in creation I mean that the natural world, as the stage of God's plan of redemption, to some extent reflects spiritual and eternal realities. There are some indications of this in Scripture.


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## Bookworm (Feb 17, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> How would you respond to charges that the Bible taught that we lived on a flat circle or a flat-bottomed dome?



You may find these papers and exchanges helpful:

Is the 'erets (earth) flat?

Is the 'erets (earth) flat? Letter & reply

Is the raqiya' ('firmament') a solid dome?


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## jwright82 (Feb 17, 2011)

The question is whether or not the biblical writers had to be omniscient to speak truthfully about anything. That is to say that did the writers of the bible have to undertsnd cosmolgy in greater detail than scientists today know it to speak about at all? That is a modernist problem to be sure and not a christian one, because the biblical writers could be describing things as they appear and be acuratly describing them as they appear. This gets them off the hook. But the response may be did they recount the miraclious elements of revealation as they appeared but what appeared was a hallucination or something? Well for one I have taken lots of LSD and mushrooms as a teenager, I am 28 now, and all sorts of other drugs, exstacy and everything else, and never ever thought that someone rose from the dead. So by my personal experience no one imagines these things because of drugs, and keep in mind that drugs of today are more potent than anything they had back then.


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## Skyler (Feb 17, 2011)

Are there any verses where the Bible teaches anything about the shape of the Earth either way?


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## EverReforming (Feb 17, 2011)

Pergamum said:


> So the sphericity of the globe has not yet been solved?


 
Well, that one in particular I don't think would be in dispute by any except a small handful of people out there. 

However, there are plenty of things in science, where scientists find themselves backtracking their prior "discoveries." My point was that scientists and ordinary people often make a god out of their science. To them, science is the answer to all the problems in this world, if we can just break the problems down into their smallest individual components and solve each issue with some piece of knowledge or technology. Placing faith in the creation, rather than the Creator.


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## Philip (Feb 17, 2011)

So exactly how is it that I can fly west from London and eventually get back to London without changing directions, according to these folks?


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## Skyler (Feb 17, 2011)

P. F. Pugh said:


> So exactly how is it that I can fly west from London and eventually get back to London without changing directions, according to these folks?


 
By flying in a circle around the North Pole.


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## Philip (Feb 17, 2011)

You can't fly in a circle over the north pole on a flat earth, given that there would be no north pole to fly over.


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## Skyler (Feb 17, 2011)

If you're traveling perpendicular to a straight line between you and a fixed point (the North Pole, in this case), you will travel in a circle and end up where you started. "West" is perpendicular to the straight line between you and the North Pole.

---------- Post added at 02:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:48 PM ----------

And I believe that in most flat-earth cosmologies the North Pole is at the center of the world, while the "South Pole" is a ring of ice around the outside of the world.


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## Elimelek (Feb 21, 2011)

Does it really make a difference if the Bible talks about a three storey universe, heavens, earth and waters under the earth/ sheol or not? It Biblical Cosmology at the heart of the gospel message?


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## baron (Feb 21, 2011)

Not sure if this help's but I read where many scientists in Ancient Greece believed the world was round. In fact Eratosthenes (276-194 BC) devised a way to measure it. Erathosthene's estimated the circumference of the earth to be 24,700 miles. Today using the exact same principles developed by Eratosthenes modern instruments estimate the distance around the equator to be 24,902 miles. Not bad for coming up with this over 2,000 years ago.


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## Peairtach (Feb 21, 2011)

Elimelek said:


> Does it really make a difference if the Bible talks about a three storey universe, heavens, earth and waters under the earth/ sheol or not? It Biblical Cosmology at the heart of the gospel message?


 
Truth matters.

But where biblical cosmology is studied in its context and genre I'm confident that it will not contradict true science or Truth.

There may indeed be a typological aspect to the creation, which means that Heaven isn't really _up there_ and Hell isn't really_ down there_, but that they are represented as such typologically.

E.g. Christ ascended in the way He did not because Heaven is above the clouds but because it was important in teaching us spiritual truths.

In Hebrews 12, II Corinthians 5:8 and other passages, Heaven is presented as being much nearer than above the clouds.

http://www.meredithkline.com/files/books/Creation_Image.html

For example, the glory of God revealed in the sky and clouds and light of the natural world may be a pointer to the true Heavenly glory (Psalm 19) which was revealed in the Shekinah cloud in the temple.



> And when the priests came out of the Holy Place, a cloud filled the house of the LORD, so that the priests could not stand to minister because of the cloud, for the glory of the LORD filled the house of the LORD. (I Kings 8:10-11, ESV)


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