# 1 Timothy 2:1-6



## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 28, 2008)

So after years of contemplating this issue I am going to throw this into the air and see what you guys can come up with here. What is this desire that God wills? When you look at this passage and the passage in Ezekiel I am posting also what do you conclude?



> (1Ti 2:1) I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;
> 
> (1Ti 2:2) For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty.
> 
> ...





> (Eze 18:23) Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?


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## BobVigneault (Mar 28, 2008)

In the Timothy passage, the context is about praying for kings. Why? Because it is God's will that all TYPES of men be saved. Not just the average joe, not just the workers and down trodden but yes, even kings. We are to pray for their salvation because God has not left them out of his will just because they are kings and may even be oppressive. That's my take on the Timothy passage.


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## Michael (Mar 28, 2008)

Hey Randy,

Have you looked up Owen _(Death of Death)_ on this? 

I don't have time at the moment but he should suffice.


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## Gryphonette (Mar 28, 2008)

The LORD really does _not_ take pleasure in the death of the wicked, and _would_ be pleased if everyone would turn to Him in faith.

But that desire is overridden by the desire to have His attributes of justice and wrath given their full scope, and for that to happen, _not_ everyone can be saved.

I think of it as being similar to an author who creates a character, writes a story in which the character dies, and cries with grief when writing it. To the author the character is real, and the grief felt because of the character's demise is real; the fact the author is the sole creator of both the character and the events surrounding him or her doesn't mitigate the emotional response.

If there had been some way for the LORD to express His justice and wrath without creating sentient beings who hate Him and will be ultimately damned, He'd have done it.

But even for a totally sovereign Creator, there are some things He cannot have, and that's one of 'em.


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## Iconoclast (Mar 28, 2008)

Randy,
I agree with Bob's post on 1 Tim2 all types of men.
On Ezekiel 18 I always think of Jesus weeping over Jerusalem.Humanly speaking if all men living would, or could repent, everyone would be happy.
However the devasting effects of sin and the righteous judgment of God against all sin demands the judgment to come.
One reason these verses are in scripture is to instruct us on who to pray for, and what attitude we must strive to maintain, desiring to see men turn from sin.


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## A5pointer (Mar 28, 2008)

BobVigneault said:


> In the Timothy passage, the context is about praying for kings. Why? Because it is God's will that all TYPES of men be saved. Not just the average joe, not just the workers and down trodden but yes, even kings. We are to pray for their salvation because God has not left them out of his will just because they are kings and may even be oppressive. That's my take on the Timothy passage.



This is of course the majority long held harmonization but I do not have a problem with the one suggested by the thread.


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## mshingler (Mar 28, 2008)

Maybe I'm way off base here, but I think of the distinction, here, between the prescriptive and the decretive will of God. God commands all men to repent, and is willing for all to be saved in the sense that He does not hinder or prevent anyone from receiving the gospel. However, in His secret, eternal purposes, He has decreed that not all will be saved and that He will give the gift of faith to His elect only. At the same time, the fact that God has decreed that not all will be saved, I don't think that changes the reality that He is grieved at sin and grieved at the eternal destruction and ruin of His creatures.


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## Barnpreacher (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm sure Bruce or Matthew could handle the Ezekiel passage with a lot more clarity than I can, so I'll just stick to the Timothy passage.

It seems to be all about context. In verse 1 Paul could not be referring to all men without exception, because that's just not possible that all men without exception be named in prayer. I think verse 2 makes that point even more clearly because Paul doesn't name specific kings and leaders in authority. He simply says we should pray for those in authority.

So, I think from that context trying to read all men without exception into verse four would be a mistake.


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## A5pointer (Mar 28, 2008)

Barnpreacher said:


> I'm sure Bruce or Matthew could handle the Ezekiel passage with a lot more clarity than I can, so I'll just stick to the Timothy passage.
> 
> It seems to be all about context. In verse 1 Paul could not be referring to all men without exception, because that's just not possible that all men without exception be named in prayer. I think verse 2 makes that point even more clearly because Paul doesn't name specific kings and leaders in authority. He simply says we should pray for those in authority.
> 
> So, I think from that context trying to read all men without exception into verse four would be a mistake.



Ryan, you've got me confused with someone else I see your point in the text. Some would say something like this. Kings are enemies. God desires kings even enemies saved therefore all kinds of men. I have no strong opinion on the text excepting the way our Arminians freinds throw it at us.


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## Barnpreacher (Mar 28, 2008)

A5pointer said:


> Barnpreacher said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure Bruce or Matthew could handle the Ezekiel passage with a lot more clarity than I can, so I'll just stick to the Timothy passage.
> ...



 - Sorry, it was Bruce Buchanan I was talking about. Not that you couldn't handle the passage just fine, but it seems like when there's a difficult passage I usually wait for Rev. Buchanan or Rev. Winzer to give an answer. Not that there aren't plenty of capable other folks to answer. Good grief, see what happens when you start naming names. I have to remind myself all the time what a bad idea it is!!!


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## Poimen (Mar 28, 2008)

I think Anne answered the Ezekiel 18:23 passage just fine though I might add:

The operative word is pleasure: does God take pleasure in the death of the wicked? No. Does He decree that they die? Yes. 

For we must remember the purpose of this passage: the people complain that they are judged on the basis of what their father's did (vs. 2). God declares that those who do right will live on the basis of what they have done, and those who have done wrong will die on the basis of what they have done. In other words, the passage _in toto_ is about God's justice, not about His eternal decree to elect and reprobate. 

Even in Romans 9, possibly the heaviest passage on reprobation in the whole Bible, we are told that God endures the wickedness of the 'vessels of wrath' with much long suffering. Though the death of the sinner is warranted by justice and thus God decrees it in accordance with His nature, we are not to think that He delights in it for death itself is contrary to the revealed will of God (that we might live - Ezekiel 18:32).


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## Jimmy the Greek (Mar 28, 2008)

John Gill on Ezek. 18:23 (italics mine)

Verse 23. Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God,.... Perish by sword, famine, or pestilence, or go into captivity; this, though the Lord's will and work, yet is his strange work; mercy is his delight. This is to be understood _not absolutely_; for the Lord does take pleasure in these things, as they fulfil his word, secure the honour of his truth and holiness, and glorify his justice, and especially when they are the means of reclaiming men from the evil of their ways; _but comparatively_, as follows:

[and] not that he should return from his ways, and live? that is, it is more pleasing to God that a man should repent of his sins, and forsake his vicious course of life, and enjoy good things, than to go on in his sins, and bring ruin on himself, here and hereafter.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Mar 28, 2008)

mshingler said:


> Maybe I'm way off base here, but I think of the distinction, here, between the prescriptive and the decretive will of God.



It is preceptive will. Not presciptive. God commands we obey his precepts but has decreed that men crucify Christ. 

The problem I have with the Bawbs interpretation is that the common man is seemingly mentioned in the previous verse. The reason we are to pray for Kings and Authorities is so that we may live in peace, to be more specific. I kind semi agree that the text may lead to an interpretation of "all types of men" as Gill puts it. But I have also leaned more towards Reverend Kok's understanding. 

It seems Gill critiques the idea of God having two contrary wills (or desires) that seem to pull at each other as in the kind of thinking that Rev. Kok and Mrs. Ivy are discussing. I have been more prone to their understanding but have also questioned the fact.... Does God have desire as a man? Can he desire one thing and yet have to choose the other. This doesn't seem to line up with the attributes of God does it?


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## BobVigneault (Mar 28, 2008)

I'm comfortable with my response to the Timothy passage. I am not as comfortable with the Ezekiel passage. The biggest problem is as you say Randy with trying to explain two opposite desires to the average man. Ugh!

I explain free will as the ability to do that which we desire the most. God always does that which he desires the most as well.


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## A5pointer (Mar 28, 2008)

BobVigneault said:


> I'm comfortable with my response to the Timothy passage. I am not as comfortable with the Ezekiel passage. The biggest problem is as you say Randy with trying to explain two opposite desires to the average man. Ugh!
> 
> I explain free will as the ability to do that which we desire the most. God always does that which he desires the most as well.



I hear ya Bob, but remember God is not neccessarily like his creation and vice versa.


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## Wannabee (Mar 28, 2008)

I would agree with Bawb on the Timothy passage. I've understood it to be "all types of men." But that doesn't explain 1 John 2:2.

_And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. _I understand the "cosmos" argument, and agree with it in most cases. But this verse, in context, can't be explained as readily.


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## mshingler (Mar 28, 2008)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> mshingler said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'm way off base here, but I think of the distinction, here, between the prescriptive and the decretive will of God.
> ...


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## Thomas2007 (Mar 28, 2008)

Tyranny is God's wrath against sin - but He desires that we live not under His wrath, but under His law, so we may have freedom and fulfill our duty unto both man and God in peace, enjoying the peace that Christ has purchased for us. 

You have to remember that the concept of praying for Kings and Rulers in authority was extremely offensive at this time. You may pray unto Caesar, but praying for Caesar was a direct denial of both his claim of deity and sovereignty. It was a revolutionary act and the foundation of Rome's criminal charges against Christians as atheists.

A lawful civil magistrate can do more to advance the Gospel by upholding justice than most people realize - it provides continuity between law and gospel where the heathen can see and understand the gospel. Whereas the flip side, good becomes evil, evil becomes good and our preaching against sin has no real world example because it is an abstraction - sin goes unpunished and indeed generally those who embrace in those situations prosper.

So, I interpret these passages within the historical context they are written in, that under the Great Commission the civil magistrate is an aid unto the Church demonstrating God's justice in a visible and tangible form and the Gospel is no longer an other-worldly abstraction to people.


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## brandonadams (Apr 18, 2008)

I recently came across a few articles that were very helpful for me:

"The Free Offer of the Gospel" by John Murray
Westminster Seminary California clark

"Murray on the Free Offer: A Review" by Matthew Winzer (a member here I believe)
Murray on the Free Offer: A Review by Matthew Winzer

"Is Denial of the "Well-Meant Offer" Hyper-Calvinism?"
Is Denial of the "Well-Meant Offer" Hyper-Calvinism?

(more articles from PRCA on the topic Pamphlets and Articles)

A History of Hypo-Calvinism Part 1:
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/145a-AHistoryofHypo-Calvinism.pdf
Part 2:
http://www.trinityfoundation.org/PDF/147a-TheBannerTruthvsCalvinism.pdf


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## MW (Apr 18, 2008)

In the Timothy passage, the "all" whom God wills to be saved, ver. 4, are the "all" for whom Christ gave His life a ransom, ver. 6. There is no difficulty in calling this a distributive or even an indefinite universal, but numerous problems arise from calling this an all-inclusive universal.

In the Ezekiel passage, the context makes it clear that God's pleasure is that the wicked who turn from their wickedness should live, and should not be punished either for their former transgressions or for the sins of their fathers. Conversely, it is also God's pleasure that the righteous who fall from their righteousness should be punished, and should not be exempted on the basis of their past life. This is a basic prophetic paradigm wherein the prophet is commissioned to declare the sanctions of the covenant. A similar example is found in Jer. 18:6-10.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 18, 2008)

I actually have some recent blog posts on this passage on Backwoods Presbyterian


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Apr 18, 2008)

http://www.puritanboard.com/f48/resolve-salvation-elect-1-tim-2-4-jn-3-16-a-9241/
http://www.puritanboard.com/f45/1-timothy-2-4-understanding-all-21008/


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## AV1611 (Apr 18, 2008)

*John Gill*

*Ver. 1. I exhort therefore, that first of all,....* The two principal parts of public worship, being the ministry of the word and prayer; and the apostle having insisted on the former, in the preceding chapter, in which he orders Timothy to charge some that they teach no other doctrine than that of the Gospel, gives an account of his own ministry, and call to it, and of the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to his trust, and stirs up Timothy to the faithful and diligent discharge of his work and office; now proceeds to the latter, to prayer, and exhorts unto it; either Timothy in particular, for so read the Syriac, Arabic, and Ethiopic versions, "I exhort thee", or "desire thee"; or else the church in general; unless it should rather be thought to be a charge to Timothy to exhort, and so Beza's Claromontane copy reads, "exhort thou therefore": but it is commonly considered as an exhortation of the apostle's, which he was very urgent in: it was what lay much upon his mind, and he was greatly desirous that it should be attended unto; for so the words may be read, "I exhort first of all", or before all things; of all things he had to say, this was the chief, or it was what he would have principally and chiefly done by others: for this does not so much regard the order of time, that prayer should be made early in the morning, in the first place, before anything else is done, and particularly before preaching, which seems to have been the custom of the primitive saints, Ac 4:31 but the pre-eminence and superior excellency of it; though the words may be rendered, "I exhort, that first, the supplications of all be made": and so may regard public prayer, the prayer of the whole church, in distinction from private prayer, or the prayer of a single person; which is expressed by different words,

*supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks:* the first of these, "supplications", signifies such petitions for things that are wanted by men, either by themselves or others; and that either for their bodies or souls, as food and raiment for the one, and discoveries of pardoning love, supplies of grace, spiritual peace, comfort, &c. for the other: and the second word, "prayers", signifies good wishes and desires, directed and expressed to God for things that are in themselves to be wished for, and desired of God, either for ourselves or others: and the next word, "intercessions", intends either complaints exhibited in prayer against others that have done injuries; or prayers put up for others, either for the averting of evil from them, or for the bestowing some good thing on them: and the last word, "thanksgivings", with which requests should always be made known to God, designs that branch of prayer in which thanks are given to God for mercies received, whether temporal or spiritual: and these are to

*be made for all men;* not only for all the saints, for all the churches of Christ, and, ministers of the Gospel; nor only for near relations and friends, according to the flesh; but for all the inhabitants of the country and city in which men dwell, the peace and prosperity of which are to be prayed for; yea, for enemies, and such as reproach, persecute, and despitefully use the saints, even for all sorts of men, Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor, high and low, bond and free, good men and bad men: for it cannot be understood of every individual that has been, is, or shall be in the world; millions of men are dead and gone, for whom prayer is not to be made; many in hell, to whom it would be of no service; and many in heaven, who stand in no need of it; nor is prayer to be made for such who have sinned the sin unto death, 1Jo 5:16 besides, giving of thanks, as well as prayers, are to be made for all men; but certainly the meaning is not, that thanks should be given for wicked men, for persecutors, and particularly for a persecuting Nero, or for heretics, and false teachers, such as Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom the apostle had delivered to Satan. But the words must be understood of men of all sorts, of every rank and quality, as the following verse shows.

*Ver. 2. For kings, and for all that are in authority,....* For supreme governors, as the emperor of Rome, and kings of particular nations; and for all sub-governors, or inferior magistrates, as procurators or governors of provinces, and proconsuls, and the like; all that were in high places, and acted under the authority of those that were supreme; these are particularly mentioned, the then governors, whether supreme or subordinate, who were avowed enemies, and violent persecutors of the saints; and it might be a scruple with some of them, whether they should pray for them, and therefore the apostle enjoins it; and this in opposition to the notions and practices of the Jews, who used to curse the Heathens, and pray for none but for themselves, and those of their own nation:

*that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, in all godliness and honesty; *which does not merely design the end of civil government by kings and magistrates, which is to preserve the peace and quiet of the commonwealth; to protect the persons and properties of men, that they may possess their own undisturbed; and to secure to them their civil and religious rights and liberties, that they may have the free use and exercise of religion, signified by "all godliness"; and to encourage morality and virtue, expressed by "honesty"; and so is an argument for prayer, taken from the advantage of civil government: nor does this clause only point out the duty of saints to live peaceably under the government they are, and not disturb it; to mind only their religious exercises among themselves, and behave honestly and morally among men, as they generally speaking are, the quiet in the land; but also expresses the thing to be prayed for; and the sense is, that since the hearts of kings are in the hands of the Lord, and he can turn them as he pleases, prayer should be made to him for them, that he would either convert them, and bring them to the knowledge of the truth, they now persecuted; or at least so dispose their hearts and minds, that they might stop the persecution, and so saints might live peaceably under them, enjoy their religious liberty, and be encouraged in their moral conversation. The Arabic version renders it, "that they may be preserved": that is, kings, and all in authority. It is a saying of R. Hananiah, or Ananias, the sagan of the priests, "pray for the peace or safety of the kingdom (one of their commentators on it adds {t}, even of the nations of the world, which is remarkable, and agrees with the exhortation of the apostle); for if there was no fear of that, men would devour one another alive.''

*Ver. 3. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour.* Not only to live peaceably and quietly under the government men are, since that is the ordination of God, and to live soberly, righteously, and godly, which his grace teaches; but to pray for all sorts of men, and for those who are set in the highest place of government, even though enemies and persecutors: this is good in itself, and in the sight of an omniscient God, who sees not as man seeth; and it is acceptable unto him through Jesus Christ, by whom every sacrifice of prayer or praise is so; for by God our Saviour is meant God the Father, who is the Saviour of all men, in a way of providence, and the Saviour of all the elect in a way of special grace; 

*Ver. 4. Who will have all men to be saved,.... *The salvation which God wills that all men should enjoy, is not a mere possibility of salvation, or a mere putting them into a salvable state; or an offer of salvation to them; or a proposal of sufficient means of it to all in his word; but a real, certain, and actual salvation, which he has determined they shall have; and is sure from his own appointment, from the provision of Christ as a Saviour for them, from the covenant of grace, in which everything is secured necessary for it, and from the mission of Christ to effect it, and from its being effected by him: wherefore the will of God, that all men should be saved, is not a conditional will, or what depends on the will of man, or on anything to be performed by him, for then none might be saved; and if any should, it would be of him that willeth, contrary to the express words of Scripture; but it is an absolute and unconditional will respecting their salvation, and which infallibly secures it: nor is it such a will as is distinguishable into antecedent and consequent; with the former of which it is said, God wills the salvation of all men, as they are his creatures, and the work of his hands; and with the latter he wills, or not wills it, according to their future conduct and behaviour; but the will of God concerning man's salvation is entirely one, invariable, unalterable, and unchangeable: nor is it merely his will of approbation or complacency, which expresses only what would be grateful and well pleasing, should it be, and which is not always fulfilled; but it is his ordaining, purposing, and determining will, which is never resisted, so as to be frustrated, but is always accomplished: the will of God, the sovereign and unfrustrable will of God, has the governing sway and influence in the salvation of men; it rises from it, and is according to it; and all who are saved God wills they should be saved; nor are any saved, but whom he wills they should be saved: hence by all men, whom God would have saved, cannot be meant every individual of mankind, since it is not his will that all men, in this large sense, should be saved, unless there are two contrary wills in God; for there are some who were before ordained by him unto condemnation, and are vessels of wrath fitted for destruction; and it is his will concerning some, that they should believe a lie, that they all might be damned; nor is it fact that all are saved, as they would be, if it was his will they should; for who hath resisted his will? but there is a world of ungodly men that will be condemned, and who will go into everlasting punishment: rather therefore all sorts of men, agreeably to the use of the phrase in 1Ti 2:1 are here intended, kings and peasants, rich and poor, bond and free, male and female, young and old, greater and lesser sinners; and therefore all are to be prayed for, even all sorts of men, because God will have all men, or all sorts of men, saved; and particularly the Gentiles may be designed, who are sometimes called the world, the whole world, and every creature; whom God would have saved, as well as the Jews, and therefore Heathens, and Heathen magistrates, were to be prayed for as well as Jewish ones. Moreover, the same persons God would have saved, he would have also

*come to the knowledge of the truth:* of Christ, who is the truth, and to faith in him, and of all the truth of the Gospel, as it is in Jesus; not merely to a notional knowledge of it, which persons may arrive unto, and not be saved, but a spiritual and experimental knowledge of it; and all that are saved are brought to such a knowledge, which is owing to the sovereign will and good pleasure of God, who hides the knowledge of Gospel truths from the wise and prudent, and reveals them to babes: whence it appears, that it is not his will with respect to every individual of mankind; that they should thus come to the knowledge of the truth; for was it his will they should, he would, no doubt, give to every man the means of it, which he has not, nor does he; he suffered all nations to walk in their own ways, and overlooked their times of ignorance, and sent no message nor messenger to inform them of his will; he gave his word to Jacob, and his statutes unto Israel only; and the Gospel is now sent into one part of the world, and not another; and where it does come, it is hid to the most; many are given up to strong delusions to believe a lie, and few are savingly and experimentally acquainted with the truths of the Gospel; though all that are saved are brought to the knowledge of such truths as are necessary to salvation; for they are chosen to it through sanctification of the Spirit, and belief of the truth.

*Ver. 5. For there is one God,....* This does not so much regard the unity of God, with respect to himself, or his divine essence, though that is a truth; but does not carry in it any apparent and forcible reason why all men should be prayed for, for which it is produced; but the unity of God with respect to men, as that there is but one God, who is the Creator of all men, and who, in a providential way, is the Saviour of all men; and in a way of special grace is the one God, the one covenant God of all sorts of men, of Jews and Gentiles; for he has taken of the latter into the covenant of his grace, as well as the former, and has loved them with a special and distinguishing love, has chosen them in Christ to salvation, and has sent his Son to redeem them; and of these he calls by his grace, regenerates, sanctifies, adopts, pardons, and justifies; see Ro 3:29 and therefore all sorts of men, Gentiles as well as Jews, are to be prayed for: another argument follows,

*and one Mediator between God and men;* a Mediator is of more than one, and has to do with two parties; and these at variance among themselves, between whom he stands as a middle person; his business is to bring them together, and make peace between them; and such an one is Christ: the two parties are God and his elect, who in their natural state are at a distance from God, and at enmity to him, and who have broken his law, and affronted his justice; Christ stands as a middle person, a daysman between them, and lays his hands upon them both; has to do with things pertaining to the glory of God, and makes reconciliation for the sins of the people; brings them that were afar off nigh to God, and makes peace for them by the blood of his cross, by fulfilling the law, and satisfying justice for them; in consequence of this he appears for them in the court of heaven, intercedes and pleads for them, is their advocate, and sees that all covenant blessings, of which he is the Mediator, are applied unto them, and preserves their persons, which are committed to his care and charge, safe to everlasting happiness; and this Mediator is

*the man Christ Jesus; *not that he is a mere man, for he is truly and properly God; or that he is a Mediator only according to the human nature: it was proper indeed that he should be man, that he might have something to offer, and that he might be capable of obeying, suffering, and dying, and so of making satisfaction in the nature that had sinned; but then, had he not been God, he could not have drawn nigh to God on the behalf of men, and undertook for them, and much less have performed; nor would his blood, righteousness, and sacrifice, have been available to cleanse from sin, to procure the pardon of it, justify from it, make atonement for it, or make peace with God: the reason why he is particularly mentioned as man, is, with a view to the argument in hand, praying for all men; since he who is the Mediator between God and man, has assumed a nature which is common to them all: and this Mediator is said to be one, not so much in opposition to other mediators, angels or saints departed, though it is a truth, and stands full against them, but with respect to men; there is but one Mediator between God and all sorts of men, through whom both Jews and Gentiles have an access to God, and peace with him; and therefore prayer through this Mediator should be made for all. So the Jews say of the Messiah {u}, that he is yeuma la, "a Mediator, God", a middle person between God and men. And they call him atyeumad adwme, "the Pillar of mediation" {w} or the middle Pillar; that is, the Mediator or Reconciler. And Philo {x} the Jew speaks of the word, as mesov, a "middle" person, and standing in the middle between the dead and the living, and between God and men. The Ethiopic version here renders it, "there is one elect of God"; which is one of the characters of the Messiah, Isa 42:1.

*Ver. 6. Who gave himself a ransom for all,....* What the Mediator gave as a ransom for men is "himself", his body and his soul, which were both made an offering for sin; and his life, which is the result of union between soul and body; his whole human nature as in union with his divine person, and so might be truly said to be himself: this he gave into the hands of men, of justice and of death; and that voluntarily, which shows his great love to his people; and also as a "ransom", or a ransom price for them, antilutron, in their room and stead; to ransom them from the slavery of sin, and damnation by it, from the captivity of Satan, and the bondage of the law, and from the grave, death, hell, ruin, and destruction: and this ransom was given for "all"; not for every individual of mankind, for then all would be delivered, freed, and saved, whereas they are not; or else the ransom price is paid in vain, or God is unjust to receive a sufficient ransom price from Christ, and yet not free the captive, but punish the person for whom he has received satisfaction; neither of which can be said. But the meaning is, either that he gave himself a ransom for many, as in Mt 20:28 for the Hebrew word lk, to which this answers, signifies sometimes many, a multitude, and sometimes only a part of a multitude, as Kimchi observes: or rather it intends that Christ gave himself a ransom for all sorts of men, for men of every rank and quality, of every state and condition, of every age and sex, and for all sorts of sinners, and for some out of every kindred, tongue, people, and nation, for both Jews and Gentiles; which latter may more especially be designed by all, as they are sometimes by the world, and the whole world; and so contains another argument why all sorts of men are to be prayed for, since the same ransom price is given for them; as that for the children of Israel was the same, for the rich as for the poor. We {z} read, that when the people of Israel comforted the high priest upon the death of his wife, or any relation, they used to say to him, Ktrpk wna, "we are thy atonement", expiation, or ransom; that is, as the commentators {a} explain it, by us thou shalt be atoned, for we will be in thy room and stead, with respect to all things that shall come upon thee; but here the High priest and Mediator is the atonement and ransom for the people:

*to be testified in due time; *or "a testimony in his own times"; that is, the sum and substance of what is before said is the Gospel, which is a testimony concerning the person, office, and grace of Christ, exhibited in the times of the Messiah, or the Gospel dispensation. Some copies read, "the mystery", which is another word often used for the Gospel; for that that is intended, appears by what follows.


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## AV1611 (Apr 18, 2008)

*Ezekiel 18:23*
*Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord God,*.... Perish by sword, famine, or pestilence, or go into captivity; this, though the Lord's will and work, yet is his strange work; mercy is his delight. This is to be understood not absolutely; for the Lord does take pleasure in these things, as they fulfil his word, secure the honour of his truth and holiness, and glorify his justice, and especially when they are the means of reclaiming men from the evil of their ways; but comparatively, as follows:

*[and] not that he should return from his ways, and live? *that is, it is more pleasing to God that a man should repent of his sins, and forsake his vicious course of life, and enjoy good things, than to go on in his sins, and bring ruin on himself, here and hereafter.


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## greenbaggins (Apr 18, 2008)

Wannabee said:


> I would agree with Bawb on the Timothy passage. I've understood it to be "all types of men." But that doesn't explain 1 John 2:2.
> 
> _And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world. _I understand the "cosmos" argument, and agree with it in most cases. But this verse, in context, can't be explained as readily.



The historical and literary context of this passage, however, indicates that it is not just for one people group (such as the Gnostics believed, against whom John was writing) that Jesus died, but that His death was for all people groups. If He was the propitiation for the sins of every last person on earth, then all would be saved.


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