# Timeline of Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in the US



## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

**NEW* Timeline of Presbyterian and Reformed Churches in the US*

At my blog, I've posted a new timeline showing the various splits and mergers of Reformed and Presbyterian denominations in the US. I'd appreciate your feedback on the chart!

The Ruling Elder: Timeline of Presbyterian and Reformed Denominations in the US


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## PuritanCovenanter (Apr 26, 2011)

This might be of some interest also. 

Not sure of its accuracy but here ya go.

Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Then you have this also.
http://reformedpresbyterian.org/download/history.pdf


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## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

Thanks, Martin. I've already included the RPCNA on my chart, but thank you for the PDF.


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## Wayne (Apr 26, 2011)

Seth:

Pulling up the Properties section of the map file, it indicates that it is set up to print out on 24" x 36" paper. 

Would it still be legible if you were to reduce it to print on 11 x 17 paper?

I have another request, but will hold off for now. (looking for a version stripped down to just Presbyterians--deleting the Reformed and Congregational.)


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## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

Wayne said:


> Seth:
> 
> Pulling up the Properties section of the map file, it indicates that it is set up to print out on 24" x 36" paper.
> 
> ...


 
Wayne: I've printed it on 11x17 and I think it is still very clear and readable.

Since you commented here, do you happen to know any of the history of the various Korean Presbyterian denominations in the US? I'd love to add them to the chart, as well (though as you can tell, I'm running out of room!).


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## Jack K (Apr 26, 2011)

Nice chart. For perspective, I would find it helpful to list, perhaps on the right edge, the number of known congregations of each of the surviving denominations. Just an idea.


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## Wayne (Apr 26, 2011)

Seth:

That's one reason why I would prefer to see the Reformed & esp. the Congregational pulled off the chart. Then you'd have room for the Koreans and some others.
I have access to a list of every Presbyterian denomination that has ever existed (list is only up to the 1960's however!), and maybe that could help with Jack's suggestion.
Still, on one level you have to keep this simple. 

What I'd like to do is be able to post it on the web with hyperlinks from each denom. name to pull up one or more levels of information.


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## jwithnell (Apr 26, 2011)

Well done! 

My only point of confusion: how to you account for the early 1600s-1750 or so congregational churches? Are they lumped with the Presbyterians (since they drifted in and out of similar polity) or are they considered way too independent/decentralized to assign a denominational name? Same with the "dissenting" churches, the Presbyterian churches in places such as Virginia that were officially Church of England?


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## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

jwithnell said:


> Well done!
> 
> My only point of confusion: how to you account for the early 1600s-1750 or so congregational churches? Are they lumped with the Presbyterians (since they drifted in and out of similar polity) or are they considered way too independent/decentralized to assign a denominational name? Same with the "dissenting" churches, the Presbyterian churches in places such as Virginia that were officially Church of England?




Thanks! And, yes, I could not find information about a "denomination" for Congregational Churches in the early 1600s-1750. But, I'm willing to update, if I find/am given good info!

---------- Post added at 04:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

Wayne: any info you want to give me, I will make use of!


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## Ask Mr. Religion (Apr 26, 2011)

I assume you have seen this version:

PHS: Family Tree of Presbyterian Denominations

The chart appears in this book: 
http://www.amazon.com/Introductio...dition-Haddon-Leith/dp/0804204799

AMR


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## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

Here is my first attempt at using line thickness to represent the size of the denominations: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2401667/timeline_size.png

---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------




Ask Mr. Religion said:


> I assume you have seen this version:
> 
> PHS: Family Tree of Presbyterian Denominations
> 
> ...


 
Yes! That was one of the charts I used as a source in making my chart. I actually started out wanting to improve that very chart.


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## dudley (Apr 26, 2011)

Jack K said:


> Nice chart. For perspective, I would find it helpful to list, perhaps on the right edge, the number of known congregations of each of the surviving denominations. Just an idea.



I agree with Jack. Sowing the number of known congregations of each of the surviving denominations can be a helpful teaching tool. Other than that I think it is a very nice and comprehensive chart; well done Seth. I must say I also find so many things well done at Communion Presbyterian Church , I visit the site often and read and learn on you church site. I also like the ARP site. I live in Ocean county NJ and Unfortunately the only ARP Presbyterian congregation is 70 miles away. If not I would be an ARP Presbyterian.


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## sdesocio (Apr 26, 2011)

Seth the only question I have is why not show the connections for some of the more recent denominations?

---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

There are a few churches that split from the RPCNA called the covenanted church (steelites)

---------- Post added at 09:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:26 PM ----------

Also you missed the crec


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## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

sdesocio said:


> Seth the only question I have is why not show the connections for some of the more recent denominations?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 09:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------
> 
> ...


 
The only reason such groups are excluded is my own ignorance. If you could point me to sources about these groups, I'll do my best to include them!

---------- Post added at 06:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 PM ----------




sdesocio said:


> Also you missed the crec



Timeline of *Reformed* and *Presbyterian* denominations. CREC fails on both counts.


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## Edward (Apr 26, 2011)

sastark said:


> Here is my first attempt at using line thickness to represent the size of the denominations:



That's nice.

---------- Post added at 08:52 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:47 PM ----------




sastark said:


> Timeline of Reformed and Presbyterian denominations. CREC fails on both counts.



But the PCUSA is on there, and they now (in legal pleadings) have described their polity as hierarchical. And while their Book of Confessions contains reformed confessions, they certainly aren't binding.


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## SRoper (Apr 26, 2011)

Looks good! I think varying the thickness is more helpful to see the relative sizes of the denominations at splits and mergers. There's at least one timeline I've seen that shows this.


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## sastark (Apr 26, 2011)

Edward said:


> But the PCUSA is on there, and they now (in legal pleadings) have described their polity as hierarchical. And while their Book of Confessions contains reformed confessions, they certainly aren't binding.



True. I included some denominations that are now less-than-reformed-or-presbyterian. But, the reason for doing so was 1) because at one time they were Reformed/Presbyterian (like the PCUSA)or 2) Reformed/Presbyterian groups merged to form them (such as the UCC). The CREC was never Reformed or Presbyterian and they have yet to merge into a Reformed/Presbyterian group. I appreciate the feedback though from you and Pastor DeSocio, and will think about it some more.


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## Wayne (Apr 27, 2011)

Not to mention the groups that left the PCUSA or the PCUS. Can't just have them appearing out of thin air in a timeline.

Thus a timeline can be a motivation to pray, for revival and reformation, for the expansion of faithful witness.


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## sdesocio (Apr 27, 2011)

This is a great project and idea but I noticed a few issues:
Regardless of you personal take, if this is meant to be a teaching tool, than avoiding personal preferences is an important factor, it seems a bit editorialized.
The CREC is after all the Confederation of *Reformed* Evangelical Churches, and is organized into presbyteries (Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches). 
I'd ditch the line thickness, because it doesnt seem to have any scale and it seems pretty problematic. For instance the PCUSA is about 9/10 times bigger than the PCA, and the PCA is about 10 times bigger than the ARP (neither read well). Also denominations like the RPCNA which has 80 congregations looks no different than micro denominations with as little as three churches.


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## Dearly Bought (Apr 27, 2011)

sdesocio said:


> This is a great project and idea but I noticed a few issues:
> Regardless of you personal take, if this is meant to be a teaching tool, than avoiding personal preferences is an important factor, it seems a bit editorialized.
> The CREC is after all the Confederation of *Reformed* Evangelical Churches, and is organized into presbyteries (Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches).


I would continue to exclude the CREC unless you wish to drastically increase the size of this chart. If every body that claims the nomenclature of "Reformed" in some way must be listed, then you would also need to include every other mixed paedo/credo or straight-out Baptistic group which claims to be Reformed (e.g., ARBCA, FIRE, SGM, SBC Founders, etc.).


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## sastark (Apr 27, 2011)

Wayne said:


> Not to mention the groups that left the PCUSA or the PCUS. Can't just have them appearing out of thin air in a timeline.



Wayne, did I miss some connections? Are some of the groups that suddenly "appear" supposed to be connected to already-existing denominations? Please let me know if I've missed something!


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## Wayne (Apr 27, 2011)

Seth:

Don't take what I said too literally. What I meant was that you have to show the PC(USA) and the old PCUS, despite their declines into modernism, simply because of those denominations that sprang from their number.

Too busy this week, but will try to go over the chart carefully next week.


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## sastark (Apr 27, 2011)

Wayne said:


> Seth:
> 
> Don't take what I said too literally. What I meant was that you have to show the PC(USA) and the old PCUS, despite their declines into modernism, simply because of those denominations that sprang from their number.
> 
> Too busy this week, but will try to go over the chart carefully next week.


 
Oh, right! Sorry I misunderstood!


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## Edward (Apr 27, 2011)

Wayne said:


> What I meant was that you have to show the PC(USA) and the old PCUS, despite their declines into modernism, simply because of those denominations that sprang from their number.



Maybe they could make a sharp 90 degree turn and disappear (with the UCC) off of the bottom of the page.



sastark said:


> The CREC was never Reformed or Presbyterian



I thought they were somewhat Presbyterian in polity. I'll concede that they aren't reformed. 

When you refer to denominations that are 



sastark said:


> Reformed and Presbyterian denominations



do you mean Reformed denominations AND Presbyterian denominations, or do you mean denominations that are BOTH Presbyterian and Reformed?


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## BenjaminBurton (Apr 27, 2011)

I was not aware that the UCC ever fell within these categories. Is there a good resource available for their history? They formed somewhat recently but when was their fall off?


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## SRoper (Apr 28, 2011)

I believe the UCC was always a combination of liberal and neo-orthodox theology. The conservative congregational churches didn't join the new denomination.


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## mvdm (May 1, 2011)

Nice work, Seth. I will be passing this on to our consistory for reflection and reference.


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## sastark (May 1, 2011)

mvdm said:


> Nice work, Seth. I will be passing this on to our consistory for reflection and reference.



Thank you! I hope it is of use to you and the consistory.


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