# St. John Chrysostom



## ConfederateTheocrat (Feb 17, 2005)

I am doing a research project at school on St. John Chrysostom. My English teacher said that we can do a project on anyone we admire.

Does anyone have any interesting facts about him that aren't well known? Keep in mind, I'm a sophmore in high school.


----------



## Scott (Feb 17, 2005)

He authored the liturgy (the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom) used by Eastern Orthodox. That measn hundreds of millions of people worship according to his liturgy every Sunday.


----------



## DTK (Feb 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ConfederateTheocrat_
> I am doing a research project at school on St. John Chrysostom. My English teacher said that we can do a project on anyone we admire.
> 
> Does anyone have any interesting facts about him that aren't well known? Keep in mind, I'm a sophmore in high school.


Hi Mark,

I've done some research on John Chrysostom, but I'm not sure what facts you would regard as well known, and what isn't well known about him. In other words, I would personally view your question as a bit ambiguous. But at the same time, if you could indicate a little more as to what you are after, I do think I could be of help to you. I've read virtually all of his works that have been translated into English, and know something about his life. He affirmed _sola fide_ inconsistently, and he believed in the ultimate authority and basic perspicuity of Holy Scripture. He believed that Scripture is self-interpreting. "Chrysostom" was a nickname that was given to John by by his admirers and meant "Golden Mouth."

Moreover, *Chrysostom (349-407)*, as J. N. D. Kelly points out, "was not baptized in infancy; following the practice widely accepted in those days, his family deferred his baptism (as we shall see) it was only as a young man approaching twenty that he took the momentous step of offering himself for it." See J. N. D. Kelly, _Golden Mouth: The Story of John Chrysostom, Ascetic, Preacher, Bishop_ (Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1995), p. 5. This book is the definitive biography on John Chrysostom. 

John Chrysostom was ordained by a bishop who was out of communion with Rome. In fact, for the better part of his ministerial life, Chrysostom was (technically speaking) out of communion with Rome. He was ordained (as most Roman Catholics would argue if consistent) by someone outside the communion of Rome, also claiming to be part of the Catholic Church. Chrysostom was baptized (AD 369) and ordained to the diaconate (AD 380) by Meletius who at the time was out of communion with Rome, and Chrysostom was ordained to the priesthood (AD 386) by Flavian, whom Rome refused to recognize as bishop of Antioch, and had _de facto_ excommunicated some years before the ordination of Chrysostom. According to the standard of Pope Leo XIII's _Satis Cognitum_ both Meletius and Flavian were "outside the edifice," "separated from the fold," and "exiled from the Kingdom" inasmuch as they were not in communion with the Roman pontiff, who acknowledged only Paulinus as the rightful occupant of the Antiochene see.

By receiving baptism and ordination at their hands, Chrysostom was declaring that he recognized them as the proper bishops in succession from and under the jurisdiction of the see of Antioch. While preaching at his tomb, Chrysostom referenced Meletius as a saint, and said of Flavian that he was not only the successor of Peter, but also the rightful heir of Peter to the see of Antioch. Chrysostom could not have been clearer in his repudiation of Paulinus whom Rome had declared to be the bishop of Antioch. (See his Homily II in _Migne_ PG 52:86).

In similar fashion, when contrary to the canons Paulinus consecrated Evagrius to be his successor upon his death in AD 389, Chrysostom actively declined to recognize him as such, and emphatically warned the people of Antioch against joining the body which recognized Evagrius as bishop.

Moreover, Chrysostom makes reference to this in a sermon delivered in AD 395...


> Chrysostom: I speak not of you that are present, but of those who are deserting from us. The act is adultery. And if ye bear not to hear these things of them, neither should ye of us. There must be breach of the law either on the one side or the other. If then thou hast these suspicions concerning me, I am ready to retire from my office, and resign it to whomsoever ye may choose. Only let the Church be one. But if I have been lawfully made and consecrated, entreat those who have contrary to the law mounted the episcopal throne to resign it. See _NPNF1: Vol. XIII, Homilies on Ephesians_, Homily 11, next to the last paragraph.


It wasn't until after his consecration in AD 398 to the see of Constantinople by Theophilus, Bishop of Alexandria, that Chrysostom entered into communion with Rome.

Now, most Roman Catholic apologists are not familiar with this information regarding the circumstances of Chrysostom's baptism and ordinations, but his "orders" as such are denied as proper according to the requirements of Leo XIII's _Satis Cognitum_. I think this alone proves that there were in Chrysostom's day other groups claiming to be every bit as much "Catholic," but nonetheless out of communion with Rome.

Perhaps, this information is more technical than what you're looking for. I have compiled extensive quotes from his works that illustrate his views on Scripture. I'll offer you an extensive quote from one of his lesser known works, which illustrates his position that all Christians should be engaged in the reading and study of Holy Scripture...


> *Chrysostom (349-407), Taken from sections 2 & 3 of his 3rd sermon on Lazarus:*
> 2. Many other such things there are that beset our soul; and we have need of the divine remedies that we may heal wounds inflicted, and ward off those which, though not inflicted, would else be received in time to come—thus quenching afar off the darts of Satan, and shielding ourselves by the constant reading of the Divine Scriptures. It is not possible—I say, it is not possible, for any one to be secure without constant supplies of this spiritual instruction (translator’s note, “Or without constantly making use of spiritual reading”). Indeed, we may congratulate ourselves (i.e. one ought to be content), if, constantly using this remedy, we ever are able to attain salvation. But when, though each day receiving wounds, we make use of no remedies, what hope can there be of salvation?
> Do you not notice that workmen in brass, or goldsmiths, or silversmiths, or those who engage in any art whatsoever, preserve carefully all the instruments of their art; and if hunger come, or poverty afflict them, they prefer to endure anything rather than sell for their maintenance any of the tools which they use. It is frequently the case that many thus choose rather to borrow money to maintain their house and family, than part with the least of the instruments of their art. This they do for the best reasons; for they know that when those are sold, all their skill is rendered of no avail, and the entire groundwork of their gain is gone. If those are left, they may be able, by persevering in the exercise of their skill, in time to pay off their debts; but if they, in the meantime, allow the tools to go to others, there is, for the future, no means by which they can contrive any alleviation of their poverty and hunger. We also ought to judge in the same way. As the instruments of their art are the hammer and anvil and pincers, so the instruments of our work are the apostolic and prophetic books, and all the inspired and profitable Scriptures. And as they, by their instruments, shape all the articles they take in hand, so also do we, by our instruments, arm our mind, and strengthen it when relaxed, and renew it when out of condition. Again, artists display their skill in beautiful forms, being unable to change the material of their productions, or to transmute silver into gold, but only to make their figures symmetrical. But it is not so with thee, for thou hast a power beyond theirs—receiving a vessel of wood, thou canst make it gold. And to this St. Paul testifies, speaking thus: “In a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and earth. If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified and meet for the master’s use, and prepared unto every good work,” (2 Tim. ii. 20, 21). Let us then not neglect the possession of the sacred books. For gold, whenever it becomes abundant, causes trouble to its possessors; but these books, when carefully preserved, afford great benefit to those who possess them. As also where royal arms are stored, though no one should use them, they afford great security to those who dwell there; since neither thieves nor burglars, nor any other evil-doers, dare attack that place. In the same way, where the inspired books are, from thence all satanical influence is banished, and the great consolation of right principles comes to those who live there; yea, even the very sight of these books by itself makes us slower to commit iniquity, Even if we attempt any forbidden thing, and make ourselves unclean, when we return home and see these books, our conscience accuses us more keenly, and we become less likely to fall again into the same sins. Again, if we have been stedfast in our integrity, we gain more benefit, (if we are acquainted with the word) for as soon as one comes to the gospel, he by a mere look both rectifies his understanding and ceases from all worldly cares. And if careful reading also follows, the soul, as if initiated in sacred mysteries, is thus purified and made better, while holding converse with God through the Scriptures.
> “But what,” say they, “if we do not understand the things we read?” Even if you do not understand the contents, your sanctification in a high degree results from it. However, it is impossible that all these things should alike be misunderstood; for it was for this reason that the grace of the Holy Spirit ordained that tax-gatherers, and fishermen, and tent-makers, and shepherds, and goatherds, and uninstructed and illiterate men, should compose these books, that no untaught man should be able to make this pretext; in order that the things delivered should be easily comprehended by all—in order that the handicraftsman, the domestic, the widow, yea, the most unlearned of all men, should profit and be benefited by the reading. For it is not for vain-glory, as men of the world, but for the salvation of the hearers, that they composed these writings, who, from the beginning, were endued with the gift of the Holy Ghost.
> ...



If there is something particular about him you want to know, ask me; and if I am able I'll provide you an answer commensurate with my ability to do so. 

PS. I hate to dispute Scott, but contrary to the traditional liturgy named after him, he was not the author of it. That is a pious legend.

Blessings,
DTK


----------



## TimV (Feb 17, 2005)

Great post!!


----------



## pastorway (Feb 17, 2005)

now let's not do his homework for him........

Mark, 

it is okay to ask these kinds of questions but do not use the answers you receive without verifying the information from the sources on your own!

Phillip


----------



## Scott Bushey (Feb 17, 2005)

Snagged!


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat (Feb 18, 2005)

Thank you SO MUCH DTK! I have found this to be very helpful. I will definately get that book, and appreciate all your information. I have one question: did he die a martyr's death?





> Mark,
> 
> it is okay to ask these kinds of questions but do not use the answers you receive without verifying the information from the sources on your own!


I know, I have no intention of plagarizing. :bigsmile: I am a Christian.

Thanks for all the info guys.

Mark


----------



## DTK (Feb 18, 2005)

Mark,

John Chrysostom (349-407) was at first the bishop of Antioch, where he was born and where he spent about fifty years of his life. This is also the place where he got the nickname “Golden Mouth.” But in the year 397, John Chrysostom was summoned to become the bishop of Constantinople. Without going into all the details (I’ll leave that for you to investigate), Theophilus, the bishop/patriarch of Alexandria (along with his nephew Cyril, who later became the bishop/patriarch of Alexandria in 412, some five years after Chrysostom’s death) became John Chrysostom’s sworn enemy(ies), and conspired against Chrysostom to have him removed as bishop of Constantinople. The whole affair is a dark episode in the history of the church, and leaves one very unimpressed with the political maneuverings, not to mention the unscrupulous behavior of Theophilus of Alexandria. He succeeded in his plot against Chrysostom, had him deposed, and Chrysostom was sent into exile. Chrysostom was being removed from one place of exile to another when, having always been of fragile health (due to details, once again, that I’ll leave to you to investigate), Chrysostom died during the forced journey. He wasn’t a martyr _per se_, but his death was precipitated by the decline of health that he experienced while in exile, and his being forced to endure the rigors of this last journey.

Blessings,
DTK


----------



## TimV (Feb 18, 2005)

Thanks David! That's almost essay level, like your first post.

Best


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat (Feb 18, 2005)

Thanks for the information David. My only resource on Chrysostom is Phillip Schaff's The History of The Christian Church, which is good, but not as in-depth as I wanted. You've been a big help . If there is any other information you, or anyone else would like to share, keep it coming!

The whole project is due in May, and I am doing it specifically on St. John Chrysostom's influence on the Protestant Reformation.


----------



## pastorway (Feb 18, 2005)

We will pray that this is a good study for you and that it gives you an opportunity to proclaim the gospel!!

Chrysostom is a great person to study. I did so in college and was greatly encouraged by the study.

Phillip


----------



## DTK (Feb 19, 2005)

Mark,

Since your project is “St. John Chrysostom's influence on the Protestant Reformation,” here is an assignment that is germane to your study. Which Reformer in particular adopted the practice of John Chrysostom’s _lectio continua_, and then recommended that practice to his fellow reformers? You need to uncover the identity of this reformer, and then find out what the practice of _lectio continua_ is and why it was so important to the reformers. Here’s some sources for you to investigate. Hughes Oliphant Old, _The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship_ (Black Mountain: Worship Press, 2004). My copy of this is spiral bound. And also by the same author, _Guides to the Reformed Tradition: Worship That is Reformed According to Scripture_ (Atlanta: John Knox Press,1984). Another title of his that you might want to investigate is _The Reading and Preaching of the Scriptures in the Worship of the Christian Church: The Age of the Reformation_ (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2002). The last title is the fourth of five volumes. 

Happy Studies,
DTK

[Edited on 2-19-2005 by DTK]


----------



## matthew11v25 (Feb 19, 2005)

> _Originally posted by ConfederateTheocrat_
> I am doing a research project at school on St. John Chrysostom. My English teacher said that we can do a project on anyone we admire.




In my sophmore year it was Andrew Marvel (poet...lived 1621-1678...atleast it was around puritan era)...I loved his writings... BUT he definetly was not pious in some of his writings.

You are blessed to have this opportunity in HS. I did not have an appreciation for Chrysostom until after high school.


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> We will pray that this is a good study for you and that it gives you an opportunity to proclaim the gospel!!
> 
> Chrysostom is a great person to study. I did so in college and was greatly encouraged by the study.
> ...



Thank you so much for your prayers. I do hope that this study will give me serious inspiration, and am encouraged by posts like this. Thank you. 



> Mark,
> 
> Since your project is “St. John Chrysostom's influence on the Protestant Reformation,” here is an assignment that is germane to your study. Which Reformer in particular adopted the practice of John Chrysostom’s lectio continua, and then recommended that practice to his fellow reformers? You need to uncover the identity of this reformer, and then find out what the practice of lectio continua is and why it was so important to the reformers. Here’s some sources for you to investigate. Hughes Oliphant Old, The Patristic Roots of Reformed Worship (Black Mountain: Worship Press, 2004). My copy of this is spiral bound. And also by the same author, Guides to the Reformed Tradition: Worship That is Reformed According to Scripture (Atlanta: John Knox Press,1984). Another title of his that you might want to investigate is The Reading and Preaching of the Scriptures in the Worship of the Christian Church: The Age of the Reformation (Grand Rapids: Wm. B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, 2002). The last title is the fourth of five volumes.
> 
> ...



Whew, looks like I got my work cut out for me. I hope they have those books at the library . Seriously man, thanks, I will try and do that. How in the world do you know so much about Chysostom? You should write a book.



> In my sophmore year it was Andrew Marvel (poet...lived 1621-1678...atleast it was around puritan era)...I loved his writings... BUT he definetly was not pious in some of his writings.
> 
> You are blessed to have this opportunity in HS. I did not have an appreciation for Chrysostom until after high school.



I know. I am so glad I discovered this website, and theology for that matter as a whole. Ever since I was about 12, and watched _The Twelve Apostles_ on the History Channel, followed by some A&E _The History of Christianity_ Special, I am facinated by it. Not to start ranting too much, but don't you hate how so many modern Christians, adults and youth, are ignorant of their ancestors? I hate it.


----------



## DTK (Feb 21, 2005)

> You should write a book.


I have. But it's not restricted to Chrysostom.

Blessings,
DTK


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DTK_
> 
> 
> > You should write a book.
> ...



Well then, where can I buy it?


----------



## DTK (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Mark asked..._
> Well then, where can I buy it?


Mark, the title is _Holy Scripture, the Ground and Pillar of Our Faith_, 3 volumes. You can order them here...
http://www.christiantruth.com/books.html
or at Amazon 
or at CBD http://www.christianbook.com/Christ...=4678&netp_id=317941&event=ESRCN&item_code=WW

I authored volume one, and researched and co-edited volume three. Volume three has a lot of Chrysostom quotes. But volumes one and two cite Chrysostom too and include information concerning his position on Scripture.

Please don't feel the need to get these. The other works I recommended are very helpful.

Blessings,
DTK


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat (Feb 21, 2005)

> _Originally posted by DTK_
> 
> 
> > _Mark asked..._
> ...



You, and someone else, wrote a 3 VOLUME work on Sola Scriptura! Forget the need, I feel the want!!! I am SO gonna save up for this! Thank you   .

Mark


----------

