# Preaching totally depravity & election and unbelievers



## Mayflower (Aug 17, 2008)

Let's say that you preaching a message on the Bible fact that men is dead in sin, he cannot turn to God and faith is a gift of God, which God gives Sovereign only to His elected, so this message gives a comfort for the believers. But in that same church are also unbelievers and heathen, which message would you give to them, if they hear very clearly that they cannot turn to God and that faith is a gift of God only towards His elected ?
What can you do with the message, that it will bring no passive reponse to the unbelievers ?


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## sotzo (Aug 17, 2008)

Mayflower said:


> Let's say that you preaching a message on the Bible fact that men is dead in sin, he cannot turn to God and faith is a gift of God, which God gives Sovereign only to His elected, so this message gives a comfort for the believers. But in that same church are also unbelievers and heathen, which message would you give to them, if they hear very clearly that they cannot turn to God and that faith is a gift of God only towards His elected ?
> What can you do with the message, that it will bring no passive reponse to the unbelievers ?



The message for the unbeliever would be simply the free offer of the Gospel....while election is certainly true, preaching on it should not make an unbeliever think he cannot come...if the Holy Spirit is working through the preached word, then we should expect the very dead men who cannot come on their own to have their wills changed so that they can.

I think something along the following lines would be preached:

"As you've just heard, in man's nature, he is dead to the things of God. But Jesus gives life to dead men and he offers that life to all who believe....what hinders you from coming? does doubt? does your own good works? does your sin? Jesus came for sinners and those who come to him, he will not turn away. Repent and believe the good news!"


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Aug 17, 2008)

Mayflower said:


> What can you do with the message, that it will bring no passive reponse to the unbelievers ?




Call them to belief and repentance! Tell them to cast themselves upon God for mercy. There is salvation only in Christ. They must believe!

It is not their doing, but those who are chosen from before the foundation of the world will come! Those who do not come, are yet in their sins, and without excuse.


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## Mayflower (Aug 17, 2008)

Presbyterian Deacon said:


> Mayflower said:
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> > What can you do with the message, that it will bring no passive reponse to the unbelievers ?
> ...



I understand you, but how can you make that call, if the preacher just spoke and taught very clearly that it is impossible for a sinner to belief to and have faith in Christ ?


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## Presbyterian Deacon (Aug 17, 2008)

Mayflower said:


> Presbyterian Deacon said:
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> > Mayflower said:
> ...




The Puritans spoke of putting yourself in "the way of grace" and relying upon the means of grace, and trusting that God is merciful and gracious. The great mystery is that God DOES command sinners to do what they can not do. "God now commandeth all men, everywhere to repent," and beileve the Gospel. 

Sinners when faced with the realization they are commanded to do what they can not do, will cast themselves upon God for mercy. They must!, for there is no other salvation. They become "broken"--and God promises that a broken and contrite heart, He will not despise.


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## Mayflower (Aug 17, 2008)

*Charles Haddon Spurgeon:*

"...That God predestines, and that man is responsible, are two things that few can see. They are believed to be inconsistent and contradictory; but they are not. It is just the fault of our weak judgment. Two truths cannot be contradictory to each other. 

If, then, I find taught in one place that everything is fore-ordained, that is true; and if I find in another place that man is responsible for all his actions, that is true; and it is my folly that leads me to imagine that two truths can ever contradict each other. 

These two truths, I do not believe, can ever be welded into one upon any human anvil, but one they shall be in eternity: they are two lines that are so nearly parallel, that the mind that shall pursue them farthest, will never discover that they converge; but they do converge, and they will meet somewhere in eternity, close to the throne of God, whence all truth doth spring..."


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## Grace Alone (Aug 17, 2008)

I personally think that most of the unbelievers in churches think they are believers.


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## Herald (Aug 17, 2008)

Ralph, the same gospel is preached to the elect and reprobate. When I know that unbelievers are in attendance I may take the liberty of stressing the command to repent and believe. For the most part I am preaching to those who are in Christ.


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## kvanlaan (Aug 17, 2008)

You're always going to have reprobates in the congregation, every church does. From another thread ("Preaching in the Vernacular"), I posted this:



> I was just reading "Puritan Reformed Spirituality" and in it, it has a very nice section on Theodorus Jacobus Frelinghuysen, who used some concepts put forward by Verschuir's writings to classify his congregation (_sterk_ - strong, _bekommerde_ - concerned, _letterwyse_ - letter-learned, and _onkunde_ - ignorant) to make sure that he was getting through to all that sat in church. Now that's the sort of 'felt needs' preaching that I can get on board with.



I think that every congregation has this mix, so there should be something for everyone in there - I think you have to assume that every time you preach the Gospel, be it to the same congregation of 150 people, you will have some (perhaps even only one) who needs to hear it, and thus it is important to include the free offer in some form. 

Also, even the regenerate are not to repent and believe once, but to repent and continue in that repentance throughout their walk.

 from an uneducated layman...


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## Pergamum (Aug 17, 2008)

I think there is notnhing wrong with addressing different segments of your church population even within the same sermon (John does it in his letters).


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## moral necessity (Aug 17, 2008)

Mayflower said:


> Let's say that you preaching a message on the Bible fact that men is dead in sin, he cannot turn to God and faith is a gift of God, which God gives Sovereign only to His elected, so this message gives a comfort for the believers. But in that same church are also unbelievers and heathen, which message would you give to them, if they hear very clearly that they cannot turn to God and that faith is a gift of God only towards His elected ?
> What can you do with the message, that it will bring no passive reponse to the unbelievers ?



in my opinion, you tell them that the gospel is "for whosoever will". And so, if they have the will to believe, then the gospel is for them. We are not to provoke them to determine if they are elect or not, but rather if they will believe or not. The willingness to believe is a fruit of the Spirit. We always provoke others from our perspective, but explain to others from God's perspective. That's how I think about it for now.

Blessings!


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## Confessor (Aug 17, 2008)

I'd generally agree with what was said above. You have to remember the temporal aspect -- we have no idea who is elect and who is reprobate. That is, among those who are clearly or likely unregenerate, we don't know if they will be regenerated in the future.

Seeing as it is every sinner's duty to repent and have faith in Christ (with which I know some will disagree ), we ought to tell all sinners to repent. Those that do repent can do so only because the Holy Spirit has enabled them.


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