# The Wrath of God; Hurricane Katrina



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

This is incredible. We need to be mindful of God's people who live in or around New Orleans. This is going to be terrible, from what the news and weather sources are saying ... the entire city could be under 20 ft. of water. The Hurricane is now at 175 mph winds and is gaining strength until landfall with all of that warm water in the gulf. God have mercy on His people, but do as He will.


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 28, 2005)

This was my thought on the matter this morning. What a wicked city. I hope God awakens the soul of such a wretched place. There is some good work that the PCA is doing there in the name of Christ. May it grow while the sin of the city is restrained and put off. God have mercy in calling many to himself.


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

I have visited New Orleans once, but never again. Never have I been to such a twisted, pagan, evil-filled city with such a feeling of darkness all around me and permeating everything and everyone I came in contact with. I know there are God's elect there, but the city in general reminds me of Sodom.


----------



## LawrenceU (Aug 28, 2005)

Whilst it is true that New Orleans is a city with much sinfulness. So is every city in this nation. We should be EXTREMELY cautious in ascribing God's judgment to any natural disaster. Such talk smacks of spiritual arrogance.


----------



## Puritan Sailor (Aug 28, 2005)

I agree Lawrence. The same storm which may mean wrath for some, could also be a means of affliction and sanctification for the elect.


----------



## Craig (Aug 28, 2005)

My mother in law will be there soon during hurricaine season...

She is a God-fearing lady. I pray God's mercy be with all there, and those visiting.


----------



## BrianBowman (Aug 28, 2005)

I believe that Randy is probably referring to Pastor Mo Leverett's "Desire Street Ministries":
http://www.desirestreet.org/site/index.php

God is indeed doing a great work through these folks in New Orleans! We must pray that the Gospel has free course during and in the aftermath of this storm


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

All I was saying is ...

Does disaster come to a city,
unless the Lord has done it?
(Amos 3:6b)


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

Hurricanes are nothing but a sign of God's judgment on the fallen world and its sinfulness. The earth is cursed by sin, and we see this in a variety of ways. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with saying a hurricane is an act of God's judgment and wrath. What else IS it?


----------



## Robin (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> I have visited New Orleans once, but never again. Never have I been to such a twisted, pagan, evil-filled city with such a feeling of darkness all around me and permeating everything and everyone I came in contact with. I know there are God's elect there, but the city in general reminds me of Sodom.



Gabe, I'll just offer a statement made by one of my pastors....

If Satan were to be a mayor of a city - what would that look like? It would be picturesque; no bars or X-rated theatres; clean streets, nice people and obedient children -- everybody would self-righteously go to church on Sunday, where speeches on good works are emphasized and the Gospel is not preached! (Sort of like Salt Lake City.) 

Meanwhile....'tis all too true, nature's fury are indeed acts of the Sovereign Creator-King; Lord of all the forces in the universe.

May we all be humble and rightly awed before His power; remembering that He is good and merciful!

Selah



Robin


----------



## Robin (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> My mother in law will be there soon during hurricaine season...
> 
> She is a God-fearing lady. I pray God's mercy be with all there, and those visiting.



 Praying, Craig...



Robin


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

Thank you, Josh. I'm glad you understood. This storm has already caused me to step back and become penitent towards the Lord, knowing that I would be rightly judged as the sinner I am, but I praise God that I am His and that I can abide in the love of Christ.


----------



## Robin (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by puritansailor_
> I agree Lawrence. The same storm which may mean wrath for some, could also be a means of affliction and sanctification for the elect.



 Patrick!

Another thought that makes me a bit uneasy....

What IF things like a hurricane are NOT necessarily powers of judgment - but may be expressions of God's powers, in general? (Acts 2:2)

Hmmm....

r.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 28, 2005)

Special Providences


----------



## Peter (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Hurricanes are nothing but a sign of God's judgment on the fallen world and its sinfulness. The earth is cursed by sin, and we see this in a variety of ways. There is absolutely NOTHING wrong with saying a hurricane is an act of God's judgment and wrath. What else IS it?





back after the tsunami in south east asia a FPCoS minister got hell from the world b/c he made a similar statement. Its the duty of a prophet of God to declare God's judgment against sin and unbelief. I don't understand how someone who believes in the sovereignty of God and the wrath of God against sin cannot see such aweful destructions as tokens of His extreme displeasure.


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

Exactly. The Tsunami had a significant effect on me in various ways. I was brought to nothing, thinking about the lives lost, and then I was brought to awe before the Lord and His power, wrath, and majesty - and JUSTICE - in killing all of those people according to His eternal decree. We shouldn't question God's right to judge the earth in time, nor should we try and "explain away" things as if God was the God of Deism. But, we have to keep a proper balance, and make sure we don't become extreme.


----------



## Peter (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Robin_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



Satan has many strategies Robin. For some it is open lasciviousness, for others he is more subtle. He knows the weakness of our natural constitution and has special devices to suit it.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 28, 2005)

Select examples of notable historical catastrophes (natural or man-made) which have been viewed as judgments of God and also inspired, by God's grace, many to repentance (cf. Gen. 50.50):

Fall of Jerusalem (70)
Eruption of Mt. Vesuvius Destroyed Pompeii (79)
Fall of Rome (410)
The Black Death (1357-1360)
Fall of Constantinople (1453)
St. Bartholomew's Day Massacre (1572)
Thirty Years War (1618-1648)
Massacre of Ulster Protestants (1641)
Great Plague of London (1665)
Great Fire of London (1666)
The Killing Times, Scotland (1680's)
Earthquake Destroyed Port Royal, Jamaica (1692)
Earthquake Destroyed Lisbon, Portugal (1755)
War Between the States (1861-1865)
WWI (1914-1918)
WWII (1939-1945)
Pearl Harbor (1941)
Bombing of Hiroshima and Nagaski, Bombing of Dresden, Germany (1945)
Terrorist Attacks on US (2001)
Four Hurricanes Hit Florida (2004)
Indian Ocean Tsunami (2004)


----------



## LawrenceU (Aug 28, 2005)

My point was that we should not point fingers. Anytime we take the role of determining 'why' an event happened we are showing our stupidity and spiritual immaturity. All of us, every city deserves anialiation. When Ivan hit the Gulf Shores / Pensacola area after apparently deadset on Mobile many here and around the nation pointed out that Pensacoal has a large homosexual population and thus God was right in sparing the more righteous Mobile. Balderdash. 

Are these disasters a result of God's judgment on sin? No doubt. Yet, let us leave the assay of that judgment to the judge.


----------



## turmeric (Aug 28, 2005)

The whole US could be the focus of this particular judgment. The hurricane seems to be aiming at our offshore oil refineries, most of them have shut down. If they're flooded or damaged we all could be hurting for many months to come, the stock market could be affected, etc...


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 28, 2005)

It seems to me that extraordinary providences -- sometimes known even in the insurance world as 'acts of God' -- ought to bring about a careful humble analysis of sins, starting with our own, which may have provoked the Lord to righteous anger. That is the Puritan way. God does sometimes make his judgments known in the earth, such the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah. On the other hand, we must guard ourselves against presuming too much as did the friends of Job. Who among us (as those who are born in Adam) does not deserve immediate destruction? Who among us (as those who are reborn in Christ) does not receive chastisement from the hand of the Lord? Can we not take any lesson from the calamities which befall us? The path of wisdom, I think, is to see the hand of God at work in special providences and to look first to see if our own ways need amending. God's judgments in the earth, as seen in the major calamities noted earlier, for example, I think, are part "revealed" to us and part "secret" (Deut. 29.29). They require much discernment. 

I think there is much wisdom in Matthew Henry's comments on the murder of the Galileans (cf. Luke 13):



> 1 There were present at that season some that told him of the GalilÃ¦ans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these GalilÃ¦ans were sinners above all the GalilÃ¦ans, because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish. 4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
> 
> We have here, I. Tidings brought to Christ of the death of some Galileans lately, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices, v. 1. Let us consider,
> 
> ...


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Aug 28, 2005)

God, Please be merciful toward us. Bring an awakening upon the soul of our Nation so that we may honour and have our boast in you. Please grant us repentance and incline our souls toward thee. I acknowledge that we don't deserve your pleasure but plead for your mercy and grace so that we may be spared and your Holiness shine full of it's glory. Thank you for the Propitiation of Christ. 
We love you, even though it is most imperfect. 

Randy


----------



## C. Matthew McMahon (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LawrenceU_
> Whilst it is true that New Orleans is a city with much sinfulness. So is every city in this nation. We should be EXTREMELY cautious in ascribing God's judgment to any natural disaster. Such talk smacks of spiritual arrogance.



True. 

But since we have the special providence of such a hurricane setting it face towards New Orleans, I hope it utterly destroys Bourbon Street and the wicked practices there (than maybe it could hop over to Las Vegas for a few minutes? Unlikely though).

Remember that Scriptures attribute the descturction of whole cities to God's power:

Genesis 19:24 Then the LORD rained brimstone and fire on Sodom and Gomorrah, from the LORD out of the heavens.

And Christ saw God's hand in small providences:

Luke 13:1-5 There were present at that season some who told Him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices. 2 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Do you suppose that these Galileans were worse sinners than all other Galileans, because they suffered such things? 3 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish. 4 "Or those eighteen on whom the tower in Siloam fell and killed them, do you think that they were worse sinners than all other men who dwelt in Jerusalem? 5 "I tell you, no; but unless you repent you will all likewise perish." 

Lawrecne - are you staying there??


----------



## Craig (Aug 28, 2005)

No one doubts God's hand in the storm....but interpreting it?

In reference to a tower falling on a bunch of guys, Jesus said it was an opportunity for those who saw/heard of it to repent....I see all disaster,disease, etc as opportunities for repentance. I find it difficult to try to interpret God's Providence on a grand scale like this. Too many people are invovled and we have so many more wicked areas than New Orleans. Could it be a judgment? Sure. But "repent lest ye likewise perish"....that should be what we think on and tell others when they ask us. The easiest answer is "New Orleans is a wicked, wicked place"...but we are also wicked. Unbelievers outside New Orleans may believe in Karma, or something similar and will look on this Providence with self righteousness. 

Interpreting the fullness of this act is not up to us, only how we respond and what we tell others the biblical response is.


----------



## LawrenceU (Aug 28, 2005)

> But since we have the special providence of such a hurricane setting it face towards New Orleans, I hope it utterly destroys Bourbon Street and the wicked practices there (than maybe it could hop over to Las Vegas for a few minutes? Unlikely though).



AMEN!! 

And yes, we plan to stay. This little house is very well built and has survived a bunch of hurricanes. If, however, my midnight check reveals a jog to the east. . . well I may rethink my plans.


----------



## Poimen (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Craig_
> No one doubts God's hand in the storm....but interpreting it?
> 
> In reference to a tower falling on a bunch of guys, Jesus said it was an opportunity for those who saw/heard of it to repent....I see all disaster,disease, etc as opportunities for repentance. I find it difficult to try to interpret God's Providence on a grand scale like this. Too many people are invovled and we have so many more wicked areas than New Orleans. Could it be a judgment? Sure. But "repent lest ye likewise perish"....that should be what we think on and tell others when they ask us. The easiest answer is "New Orleans is a wicked, wicked place"...but we are also wicked. Unbelievers outside New Orleans may believe in Karma, or something similar and will look on this Providence with self righteousness.
> ...





This is what my answer would look like. 

I remember that after the tsunami in SE Asia struck we had our annual round of family visiting and one of our elders used it as an example of the awesome works of God (Psalm 145:5) He also said, and I think wisely so, that it could very well have happened to us as well (here on the Left Coast),


----------



## RamistThomist (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by poimen_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Craig_
> ...





NO has its degenerate areas, nobody doubts that. However, you can find much of the same stuff in most any metropolitan area. I think the old puritan prayer here is quite helpful,

"There but for the grace of God, go I."


----------



## Craig (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Craig_
> ...


Sorry, Josh. I try to ignore your posts


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

I'm never starting a thread again... sheesh!


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> ...



It's a complaint.


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

You would. :bigsmile:


----------



## pastorway (Aug 28, 2005)

my sig for those who need to click....

(and ditto to Lawrence)


----------



## WrittenFromUtopia (Aug 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by pastorway_
> my sig for those who need to click....
> 
> (and ditto to Lawrence)



Well of course!


----------



## pastorway (Aug 28, 2005)




----------



## JKLeoPCA (Aug 29, 2005)

Does anyone know if in Insurance terminology, is "Act of God" still in policies???

Just wondering


----------



## LarryCook (Aug 29, 2005)

Speaking of the complaint department......but seriously, maybe we should look at this event and the hardships that are sure to follow on its heels as directed not toward the godless and unregenerate, but at Christ's church for the sin of unbelief which we harbor.

From this morning's devotional:


> Complaining Against God by C. H. Spurgeon
> 
> 
> "And all the children of Israel murmured."
> ...



And also from *today's* devotional:


> It is very easy for us to speak and theorize about faith, but God often casts us into crucibles to try our gold, and to separate it from the dross and alloy. Oh, happy are we if the hurricanes that ripple life's unquiet sea have the effect of making Jesus more precious. Better the storm with Christ than smooth waters without Him.--Macduff


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Aug 29, 2005)

Increase Mather's, _Remarkable Providences, An Essay For the Recording of Illustrious Providences_ (Boston, 1684)


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 1, 2005)

> _Originally posted by JKLeoPCA_
> Does anyone know if in Insurance terminology, is "Act of God" still in policies???
> 
> Just wondering



I don't know how widespread the term "act of God" is in today's insurance industry. I see the term "force majeure" in use on occasion, including this week. Here is an article about Air Canada's invocation of the terms in 2003. I expect both terms will be in use quite a bit wrt Katrina. This article discusses cat bonds, or 'act of God' bonds, wrt to Katrina.


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 11, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Select examples of notable historical catastrophes (natural or man-made) which have been viewed as judgments of God and also inspired, by God's grace, many to repentance (cf. Gen. 50.50):
> 
> Fall of Jerusalem (70)
> ...



Some sermons and tracts worth reading are: 

Thomas Brooks, _London's Lamentations: or, A serious discourse concerning the late fiery dispensation that turned our (once renowned) city into a ruinous heap. Also the several lessons that are incumbent upon those whose houses have escaped the consuming flames._

Matthew Henry, _A Memorial of the Fire of the Lord: in a sermon, preached September 2nd, 1713, being the day of the commemoration of the burning of London, in 1666._

John Owen, _National Sins and National Judgments_

James H. Thornwell, _Judgments, A Call to Repentance, A Sermon Preached by Appointment of the Legislature in the Hall of the House of Representatives, Dec. 9, 1854_

James H. Thornwell, _Sermon on National Sins, Nov. 21, 1860_

Patrick Gillespie, _Rulers Sins The Causes of National Judgments, Or, a Sermon Preached at the Fast upon The 26th Day of December, 1650_

Samuel Davies, _Sermon on the Occasion of the French and Indian War, 1756_: 'National judgments are inflicted for national sins, and therefore reformation from national sins is the only hopeful way to escape them.'

John Wesley, _National Sins and Miseries, November 12, 1775_

William Linn, _A Discourse on National Sins, Delivered May 2, 1798, Being the day recommended by the President of the United States to be observed as a day of General Fast_

C.H. Spurgeon, _Fast-day Service Held at the CRYSTAL PALACE, SYDENHAM, On Wednesday, October 7th, 1857, by the REV. C.H. SPURGEON, Being the Day appointed by Proclamation for a Solemn Fast, Humiliation, and Prayer before Almighty God: in order to obtain Pardon of our Sins, and for imploring His Blessing and Assistance on our Arms for the Restoration of Tranquillity in India._

J.C. Ryle, _The Finger of God_

William Einwechter, _Has Not the Lord Done It?_

[Edited on 9-12-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


----------



## biblelighthouse (Sep 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> John Wesley, _National Sins and Miseries, November 12, 1775_




 You posted a John Wesley link on the Puritanboard!


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Sep 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by biblelighthouse_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



heh heh


----------



## JasonGoodwin (Sep 12, 2005)

> _Originally posted by LawrenceU_
> Whilst it is true that New Orleans is a city with much sinfulness. So is every city in this nation. We should be EXTREMELY cautious in ascribing God's judgment to any natural disaster. Such talk smacks of spiritual arrogance.



Tell me about it. I lived around Buffalo -- a city infected with the fatal but curable disease called Popery -- when the Blizzard of '77 hit. Out of school for a week. 

My wife and I also had to evacuate for both Hurricanes Ivan and Dennis. The only thing we lost was our food when the power went out. Thus, both the righteous and the sinners are subject to whatever weather Almighty God throws at us. I hope that this is not arrogant, but it seems to me that Christians are given a better understanding of how things come together -- especially the weather.

Let me ask everyone this: could the handwriting be on the wall?


----------



## VirginiaHuguenot (Oct 31, 2005)

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



November 1 is the 250th anniversary of the Lisbon earthquake, one of the most powerful and deadly in human history (November 1, 1755).


----------

