# Kicked out of the army



## ClayPot (Jul 28, 2010)

I found out yesterday that because of some sort of fight during bootcamp, my brother is going to be discharged from the army once he finishes bootcamp. After six months, if he wants back in, he can reinlist. He was scheduled to go to Afghanistan in December, and given the need for troops, it seems to me that whatever happened must have been serious for this type of punishment. He seems to have been doing really well up to this point (he scored a perfect in his PT assessment, the only one in his company), and he said that he didn't do anything wrong (which I am doubtful about). He is actually pretty devastated from what I hear. For those of you in the military or with military experience:

1. Is this type of punishment common?
2. What type of offense would merit such a punishment?
3. Is there an appeal system to possibly change the punishment?

I really don't have any further details unfortunately, as all of this was heard second hand through my mother. But I'd like to be able to help him if possible. Thanks.


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## Willem van Oranje (Jul 28, 2010)

jpfrench81 said:


> I found out yesterday that because of some sort of fight during bootcamp, my brother is going to be discharged from the army once he finishes bootcamp. After six months, if he wants back in, he can reinlist. He was scheduled to go to Afghanistan in December, and given the need for troops, it seems to me that whatever happened must have been serious for this type of punishment. He seems to have been doing really well up to this point (he scored a perfect in his PT assessment, the only one in his company), and he said that he didn't do anything wrong (which I am doubtful about). He is actually pretty devastated from what I hear. For those of you in the military or with military experience:
> 
> 1. Is this type of punishment common?
> 2. What type of offense would merit such a punishment?
> ...


 
From my experience I would be surprised if he got less than honorable discharge from something stupid he did in boot camp. If he will be eligible to reenlist, that is a good sign. It doesn't sound like it's something that would follow him, which is the biggest concern.


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## ClayPot (Jul 28, 2010)

It seems weird to me too. Kick him out but then let him back in? Unfortunately, communication is limited for bootcamp attendees, so I can't just call him up to find out what's going on.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 28, 2010)

I'm a Navy veteran.

Everything is tentative in boot camp. Your staying in the military is contingent upon successful completion of all the tests in boot camp anyway. That being said, its nothin' to send you home packin' - even for what otherwise would be considered a minor offense.


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## kceaster (Jul 28, 2010)

This sounds like an "other than honorable discharge" or an administrative discharge, and it would be non-punitive. If he actually did something bad, it wouldn't be administrative, it would be the result of some non-judicial punishment or courts martial. That's pretty rare in boot camp because there's too much paperwork and legal proceedings. It would have to be a serious offense like murder, rape, etc. It's wierd they're having him stay until the end, though. 

And I think one can go back in after a certain time, though there may be waivers that have to be met. A recruiter should be able to answer this question.

In boot camp, though, the recruits are subject to the UCMJ, so their rights are limited when it comes to what can and can't be done with them. Many men going in don't realize this.

Blessings,

KC


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 28, 2010)

Time to get a proper lawyer in my estimation. I am an usn veteran.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Jul 29, 2010)

PuritanCovenanter said:


> Time to get a proper lawyer in my estimation. I am an usn veteran.


 
That wouldn't do much good. Any service member with less than six years of active service can be given walking papers (administrative separated) by there CO for no reason at all.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jul 29, 2010)

Sounds different. I know people that received a dod just from bootcamp. I was in for only four years plus two inactive. Sounds different. I would get a lawyer.


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## Semper Fidelis (Jul 29, 2010)

Hard to say without looking at the exact situation. It's likely an administrative separation and it's very unlikely that it's an OTH. I've served as the Senior Member of several Admin Sep boards. In order to Administratively Separate with an OTH, the offense has to be pretty egregious or there has to be a pattern of misconduct (i.e. multiple non-judicial punishments).

But that's if the service is going to administratively separate a service member and give them an OTH. The OTH would make it so he couldn't re-enlist (and also affects their hiring potential for government service). It's a pretty stringent process and one that is recommended by an extensive review where the service member has free legal counsel provided to argue his case (even though it is adminstrative in nature, the Corps makes sure to afford the Marine a lot of rights and I would assume the Army works that way with its own nuances).

If the adminstrative separation is not an OTH (very likely) then the bar for discharging is very low. If someone can't pass a PFT or shoot he'll be separated. Maybe the determination was made that your brother was not fit for service at this time and he was admin sep'd for that reason. In other words, come back 6 months from now after you've grown up a little.

It does seem odd to me that they would kick him out of boot camp for a simple fist fight. Of course this is the Army we're talking about and the Marine Corps still values testosterone. But, seriously, given how hard they try to get folks to complete boot camp even when there's not an ongoing war it must have been enough to get someone's attention because a senior decision maker would have had to make the call.

It's pretty easy to figure out the reason. Just tell him to let you look at his admin sep papers.


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## SemperEruditio (Jul 29, 2010)

Navy vet here.

I know of plenty of people who were sent home from bootcamp only to return 6 months to a year later and make it through. Your brother will need to be honest with himself about what he did. Integrity is important especially when evaluating ourselves.


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## ClayPot (Jul 29, 2010)

Thanks for all the info everyone. I'll definitely need to talk to my brother as soon as possible to figure out exactly what's going on.

Joshua


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## SolaScriptura (Jul 29, 2010)

jpfrench81 said:


> ... given the need for troops, it seems to me that whatever happened must have been serious for this type of punishment.


 
Actually...

The economy is so bad that there are lines of folks wanting in. For the first time in years, recruiters have it EASY. I heard this week that there is a year long wait for folks wanting to enlist with an OCS option (they want to come in as officers). 

So when they have a ton of people wanting in, they can be a little more strict.

That said, I literally DO NOT believe that your brother is being discharged for a simple fistfight. I literally do not believe it. Soldiers fight all the time. A fist fight would warrant maybe a smoke session or an extra shift cleaning latrines or something. 
It could be that this fist fight - though small in itself - is just the latest in a string of events that have his command convinced he's not fit for duty, so in that sense perhaps it is the "straw that broke the camel's back." But an otherwise good Soldier gets in a one-time fist fight and gets thrown out for it? I don't believe it.


Slight change of subject - 

For most of you who don't understand - most discharges are such that after 6 months you can come back in. Or another tactic or way around that 6 month wait, is that someone can go directly into the Reserve components and then after their 6 months just do the paper transfer into active duty. It is ridiculous, I know... but that's the nature of the beast.


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## ClayPot (Jul 29, 2010)

SolaScriptura said:


> That said, I literally DO NOT believe that your brother is being discharged for a simple fistfight.



I don't really believe it either. My brother isn't known for being the most honest person, so it may take a while to find out what really happened (or our end).


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## SolaSaint (Jul 29, 2010)

I work for Air Force recruiting and I come across this sort of thing every once in a while. He will most likely receive an entry level dischage for failure to adapt. Depending on the severity of what he did to get discharged, he will have to meet very strict requirements to reapply in 6 months, but it can be done. He will need to keep very good records of all he is going through right now. I would even suggest he get letters of reference if he can. However Ben is correct, recruiters are not in need of many new recruits due to the bad economy. We are getting flooded with people wanting in. Within six months things could change greatly. And forget the lawyer advice, it won't work, remember the Army belongs to the Government.


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