# More Allan's Bible Help: Legend Please...



## Semper Fidelis (Feb 15, 2008)

Some of you guys have me desirous of one of the A&S Bibles or one of the NKJV Cambridge Bibles. I need somebody to explain some of these things to me because the bible-direct site doesn't provide images nor do they really describe what these things mean.

Some definitions please:

1. World Reference
2. Oxford Reference
3. Oxford Text
4. Cambridge Text
5. Breveir Clarendon Edition
6. Breveir Blackface Edition
7. Longprimber Edition
8. Ruby Edition
9. Cameo Edition
10. Compact Edition
11. Pitt Minion Edition
12. Concord Edition
13. Crystal Edition
14. Personal Concord Edition
15. New Cambridge

I think that should do for a list for now.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 15, 2008)

Yes, inquiring minds want to know, especially when contemplating spending that kind of money. I know that some of the names are types or editions of Cambridge Bibles, but I don't know if they are exclusive to them or not. 

I have seen the NASB Pitt Minion edition, and from what I recall the type is too small to use on a regular basis, in my opinion.


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## SolaGratia (Feb 15, 2008)

Anything from Cambridge go here; 
Cambridge Bibles: Distributed by Baker Publishing Group in North America

For Allan's is best to go to to j mark bertrand Bible info. website (link below) or request a catalog directly via contact at their website (www.bibles-direct.com);

Bible Design and Binding


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 15, 2008)

SolaGratia said:


> Anything from Cambridge go here;
> Cambridge Bibles: Distributed by Baker Publishing Group in North America
> 
> For Allan's is best to go to to j mark bertrand Bible info. website (link below) or request a catalog directly via contact at their website (www.bibles-direct.com);
> ...



What fun is that? Why can't we make this thread a useful: "One stop shop" to get some information.

Thanks for the links though. I'll check them out.


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## SolaGratia (Feb 15, 2008)

It might be because both Cambridge and Allan's, both being British, do not know how to take advantage of the internet and American Capitalism, I guess!


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 15, 2008)

It's just a lot to filter through. That blog link you provided is interesting but it still assumes a lot. Some of the above terms are used but not explained. I still don't know what some of them mean and don't really have the time to research it all so I hope those who have had this as a hobby for a while would simply give me a definition of the above so I don't have to go digging for it.


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## Michael (Feb 15, 2008)

Hi Rich,

I know how you feel, especially after saving up for a quality bible. I can't help you with all the terms but might be able to help with a few. I've purchased multiple Allan's bibles for gifts and personal use. etexas probably has the most information though.

The first thing to look for is which bible is bound by Allan themselves. These are the best. From what I gather, purchasing a Cambridge bible from them is just the same as purchasing a Cambridge bible anywhere else. Not that Cambridge bibles are anything to back away from--they're beautiful, but Allan's special bindings are unparalleled in my humble opinion. If you visit Allan's site or order a catalogue you should notice symbols that indicate which bibles are made with these special bindings.

Next, you need to understand the differences and nuances of the styles and materials. The site information is lacking here but ordering a catalogue does help a bit (though some of the pictures are inaccurate or do not give away important details). Just know this, the "highland goatskin" is as good as it gets. If you are going to save up and spend this kind of money (especially with the suffering exchange rate) you might as well get the best. Unfortunately, to my knowledge Allan does not offer a highland goatskin NKJV at this time. 

As far as style is concerned, be aware of the yappness . Full yapp is where the leather flaps over and can cover the edges of the pages entirely when the bible is closed (the front cover can touch the back cover). This is intended to protect the bible over years of use. Semi yapp is the style similar to traditional bible covers.

I've purchase 3 types of Allan's bibles. So here is what I can tell you from personal experience:

*KJV Oxford Longprimer Edition* (highland goatskin, full yapp): It's one of Allan's larger bibles and very easy to read (clear font with nice size print). The cover was absolutely flawless and extremely supple. My only complaint is that the translation includes "self-pronouncing" text (the Brevier Blackface Edition also has this). This might be minor to some, but it is very annoying to me. Unfortunately there was no way of knowing about this from either the site or the catalogue. Also, unlike most KJV versions, the Longprimer does not contain italics common to the translation.

*KJV Breveir Clarendon Edition* (brown buffalo grain calfskin, semi yapp): This is one handsome bible! The size is smaller than the others I've purchased (I think it's 7" by 4 1/2"), but it's still larger than all the mini bibles out there. I am currently reading through this bible and have no complaints, the font is clear and beautiful. The buffalo grain calfskin is nowhere near as soft or supple as the highland goatskin, but it is gorgeous nonetheless and it opens flat just the same. My current avatar is a picture of this bible. It also comes in full yapp highland goatskin among other bindings.

*ESV* (highland goatskin, semi yapp): This is probably the best highland goatskin cover I've ever seen. It's absolutely incredible. The content of the bible is identical to Crossway's Classic Reference Edition with the exception of the book introductions. I'd given this bible as a gift and my friend was extremely pleased. I've seen both covers they offer and highly recommend the "mid tan".

Hope this helps!


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 15, 2008)

What does yapp mean though?
Longprimer?
Breveir Clarendon?

Are these just model names like Chevy or Ford or do they represent some commonly accepted design concept or font?

What is the real difference between Cambridge and Oxford? I know they are universities in England but why call a Bible by that name? Are they publishing houses or is there some difference in the text?


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## Michael (Feb 15, 2008)

SemperFideles said:


> What does yapp mean though?
> Longprimer?
> Breveir Clarendon?
> 
> Are these just model names like Chevy or Ford or do they represent some commonly accepted design concept or font?



From what I can tell the names are simply model names. I don't think there is anything more to it. I'd highly recommend requesting a catalog to get a better look at what Allans offers.



> What is the real difference between Cambridge and Oxford? I know they are universities in England but why call a Bible by that name? Are they publishing houses or is there some difference in the text?



The respective universities of Cambridge and Oxford were both instrumental in the translation of the AV and later received the rights to publish the bible apart from the Queen's Printer. To this day they hold exclusive rights to print the AV in England. RL Allan & Sons is located in Scotland, btw.

Regarding differences, here's a bit from wikipedia:



> By the mid 18th century the wide variation in the various modernised printed texts of the Authorised Version, combined with the notorious accumulation of misprints, had reached the proportion of a scandal; and the Universities of Oxford and Cambridge both sought to produce an updated standard text. First of the two was the Cambridge edition of 1762 (Herbert #1142), edited by F.S. Parris (Norton 2005, p. 106) ; but this was effectively superseded by the 1769 Oxford edition, edited by Benjamin Blayney (Herbert #1196), which became the Oxford standard text, and is the text which is reproduced almost unchanged in current printings (Norton 2005, p. 113) . Parris and Blayney sought consistently to remove those elements of the 1611 and successive subsequent editions, that they believed were due to the vagaries of printers; while incorporating most of the revised readings of the Cambridge editions of 1629 and 1638, and each also introducing a few improved readings of their own. They undertook the mammoth task of standardising the wide variation in punctuation and spelling of the original, making many thousands of minor changes to the text; although some of these updatings do alter the ostensible sense - as when the original text of Genesis 2:21 "in stead" (in that place) was updated to read "instead" (as an alternative). In addition, Blayney and Parris thoroughly revised and greatly extended the italicisation of "supplied" words not found in the original languagues by cross-checking against the presumed source texts. Unfortunately, Blayney assumed that the translators of the 1611 New Testament had worked from the 1550 Stephanus edition of the Textus Receptus, rather than from the later editions of Beza; and accordingly the current standard text mistakenly "corrects" around a dozen readings where Beza and Stephanus differ (Scrivener 1884, p. 242) . Like the 1611 edition, the 1769 Oxford edition included the Apocrypha; although Blayney consistently removed marginal cross-references to the Books of the Apocrypha, wherever these had been provided by the original translators. Altogether, Blayney's 1769 text differed from the 1611 text in around 24,000 places (Norton 2005, p. 120) ; but since that date, only six further changes have been introduced to the standard text - although 30 of Blayney's proposed changes have subsequently been reverted (Norton 2005, p. 115) . The Oxford University Press paperback edition of the "Authorized King James Version" provides the current standard text; and also includes the prefatory section "The Translators to the Reader".
> 
> The 1769 text of the first three verses from I Corinthians 13 is given below.
> 
> ...


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 15, 2008)

Any idea what the difference in print is between the blackface and the clarendon editions?


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## brymaes (Feb 16, 2008)

Cambridge and Oxford Bibles are so called because they are published by those Universities' respective presses.


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 16, 2008)

theologae said:


> Cambridge and Oxford Bibles are so called because they are published by those Universities' respective presses.



Right. I figured it was something like that but I was also interested in knowing if there were some textual differences. It appears there had been at one point and then there are some stylistic variations that some folks know about.

That one guy's blog is pretty intriguing but you can tell that some people are accustomed to using some lingo that uses terms relatively foreign to me. There are obviously some design or font or style or binding terms but, in many cases, I'm not sure which is which.

I'm getting bits and pieces of the equation one link at a time.


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## Michael (Feb 16, 2008)

Blueridge Baptist said:


> Any idea what the difference in print is between the blackface and the clarendon editions?



Hey James,

The big difference for me is again the "self pronouncing" text. The Blackface has it and the Clarendon (which I prefer) does not. This isn't a big deal for some but it's quite frustrating for me to read. J. Mark Bertrand has a helpful review of the Blackface here if you have not seen it yet. 

In my opinion if you can be pleased reading a 7-inch bible the Clarendon is just about the best in the world. It's readable beauty is unparalleled and the quality will last for decades. This is not hype. You can literally tell from the moment you first hold it.

For those with poor eyesight, fear not. I've had terrible eyes my entire life. I had successful LASIK surgery almost 9 years ago and still have glasses. The font in the Clarendon is larger than Tolle Lege's Geneva Bible and about the same size (but bolder) than Allan's (or Crossway's) ESV. It's not a large print bible by any means but I can still read multiple chapters consecutively without complaint.

You can view Allan's selection of Clarendon bibles here. Ordering a free catalog will reveal the exact print size.

If I had to share a sole complaint--and this is a stretch--it would be that a semi-yapp highland goatskin version is not yet available. Let my lust be chastened though as my semi yapp buffalo grain calfskin edition is exquisite and more than I deserve.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 16, 2008)

SemperFideles said:


> Some of you guys have me desirous of one of the A&S Bibles or one of the NKJV Cambridge Bibles. I need somebody to explain some of these things to me because the bible-direct site doesn't provide images nor do they really describe what these things mean.
> 
> Some definitions please:
> 
> ...



I think about 1/2 of these are Cambridge editions that apparently Allan simply sells. I recognize several of the names but can't help much with descriptions. The Pitt Minion is a smaller, compact Bible. The Concord and Cameo are larger. The New Cambridge is probably the New Cambridge Paragraph Bible, the new edition of the AV they put out a few years ago.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 16, 2008)

Cambridge would seem to be much more prominent than Oxford as a publisher today (at least in the USA), especially if you discount the Scofield Reference Bible and its various revisions. I read somewhere not long ago that that Scofield sales are basically what keeps Oxford afloat. Oxford is also the publisher for liberal bibles like the Oxford Annotated Bible in the RSV/NRSV that students in liberal arts schools with liberal religious departments (i.e. probably the vast majority) are forced to buy for their required OT/NT classes.


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## Grymir (Feb 16, 2008)

Mega Dittos Semper,

I to have waded through all of the questions you have asked in my quest for a luxury Bible. If you are going King Jimmy, I prefer Cambridge to Oxford. For the bindings, Allans is the best I've seen. I did order their catalog and it came today. It helped alot. Most of the different names have to do with font (some old, some modern), reference or not, concordance or not, maps or not (as Darkwing Duck's kid used to say, "When in doubt, accessorize!)

Yes, the quest you are on can be harder than finding the 'rapture' in the Bible.


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## Michael (Feb 16, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> SemperFideles said:
> 
> 
> > Some of you guys have me desirous of one of the A&S Bibles or one of the NKJV Cambridge Bibles. I need somebody to explain some of these things to me because the bible-direct site doesn't provide images nor do they really describe what these things mean.
> ...



Absolutely. If you are going to order from Allan you may as well partake of their superior bindings....that's what makes them special. 

To my knowledge the only Cambridge bibles that Allan binds themselves are the Compact Edition, the Pitt Minion, and one of the imitation leather Ruby Editions. However, many of the Oxford bibles are available with the special bindings.


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## Sonoftheday (Feb 17, 2008)

> Oxford is also the publisher for liberal bibles like the Oxford Annotated Bible in the RSV/NRSV that students in liberal arts schools with liberal religious departments (i.e. probably the vast majority) are forced to buy for their required OT/NT classes.


 Before by the grace of God I dropped out of college I had signed up for one of these classes. I was required to purchase the "Harper Collins Study Bible NRSV". This was the first time I ever heard of someone claiming to be christian yet denying the inerrancy of scripture. In the study notes it would say things like the book of 2nd thes was probably not written by Paul, and it would say things like this teaching is in contradiction to what james says here. As a naive student I was shocked and dropped the class quite quickly, especially after being scolded by the teacher because I told him I could do the 1st assignment in the class because I would not accept the idea that the scriptures are not infallible.


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## Ivan (Feb 17, 2008)

Ezekiel16 said:


> Ordering a free catalog will reveal the exact print size.



Michael,

I went to the website and didn't see a place to order a catalog. Could you help a brother out?


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## Michael (Feb 17, 2008)

Ivan said:


> Ezekiel16 said:
> 
> 
> > Ordering a free catalog will reveal the exact print size.
> ...



Hey Ivan,

Just send an email to Nicholas at *[email protected]* and he'll take care of you. Their customer service is fantastic.


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## Ivan (Feb 17, 2008)

Ezekiel16 said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> > Ezekiel16 said:
> ...



Thanks, Michael!


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## Michael (Feb 17, 2008)

Ivan, check your PM...


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## SueS (Feb 17, 2008)

Ezekiel16 said:


> As far as style is concerned, be aware of the yappness . Full yapp is where the leather flaps over and can cover the edges of the pages entirely when the bible is closed (the front cover can touch the back cover). This is intended to protect the bible over years of use. Semi yapp is the style similar to traditional bible covers.






So, would a full yapp eliminate the need for a separate Bible cover? It seems as if a separate cover would negate the nifty floppiness of the leather binding.


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 18, 2008)

Well, I probably shouldn't have but I ordered a Long Primer today.


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## Michael (Feb 18, 2008)

SueS said:


> Ezekiel16 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as style is concerned, be aware of the yappness . Full yapp is where the leather flaps over and can cover the edges of the pages entirely when the bible is closed (the front cover can touch the back cover). This is intended to protect the bible over years of use. Semi yapp is the style similar to traditional bible covers.
> ...



I would say so, but I'm not much of a fan of bible covers to begin with. FYI, Some of Allan's bindings (*) are full yapp with a zipper included. You might want to check out:

*9CZ KJV Oxford Reference Brevier Clarendon: Bold grain goatskin leather, with zip fastener, and cyclopedic concordance.

*8Z KJV Oxford Reference Brevier Clarendon: French Morocco leather, with zip fastener, with dictionary of proper names, subject index, and concordance.

*24Z KJV Oxford Reference Brevier Blackface: Goatskin leather, cyclopedic concordance, with zip fastener. 

*25Z KJV Oxford Reference Brevier Blackface: French Morocco leather, with zip fastener, and cyclopedic concordance.

*112Z KJV Oxford Reference Ruby Edition: Mid grain goatskin, with zip fastener.

*34Z KJV Cambridge Reference Compact Edition: Goatskin leather, red under gold page edges, with zipper.

PM3Z KJV Cambridge Reference Pitt Minion: Calfskin leather, with red under gold page edges, bible word list, and zip fastener. 

TB4Zi KJV Cambridge Reference Personal Concord Edition: Calfskin, gilt page edges, with zip and thumb indexes.


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## Michael (Feb 18, 2008)

Blueridge Baptist said:


> Well, I probably shouldn't have but I ordered a Long Primer today.



Put away your regrets my friend.  You can leave this bible to your grandchildren....


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## Semper Fidelis (Feb 20, 2008)

I contacted Allen & Sons and interacted with Nicholas. He mentioned that they are upgrading their web site to provide more helpful information and pictures of their products to aid in purchases. I pointed him to this thread to show him his wide fan base.

I also suggested the creation of a Wordpress blog so they can write articles about design as well as announce new products. His closing comments to me were as follows:



> Dear Rich
> 
> I'm very grateful for your kind and detailed message which will prove most helpful. And the comments on the board are fascinating. I recognise many of the contributors and it's so worthwhile getting their reactions to our Bibles - what they like, what they don't like, how we describe various elements of a Bible, how they view our little company, and so on.
> 
> ...



What a nice chap.


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## caddy (Feb 20, 2008)

As of yet it appears that R.L Allen doesn't make a Wide Margin Bible.


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 20, 2008)

I recieved a catalogue from them today. It helps a little but leaves a lot to be desired. My Long Primer was shipped yesterday by airmail. I am really looking forward to recieving it!!!


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 20, 2008)

caddy said:


> As of yet it appears that R.L Allen doesn't make a Wide Margin Bible.




here is a tremendous buy on a wide margin Oxford.

http://www.scripturetruth.com/_store/Product_Search_Return.asp


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## caddy (Feb 20, 2008)

Blueridge Baptist said:


> caddy said:
> 
> 
> > As of yet it appears that R.L Allen doesn't make a Wide Margin Bible.
> ...


 
Link doesn't work. I actually have a Wide Margin Cambridge NIV

Looking for ESV


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## Ivan (Feb 20, 2008)

caddy said:


> Blueridge Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > caddy said:
> ...



Yeah, I couldn't get it to work either. I'm interested in a wide margin, but only KJV or NKJV.


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## Pilgrim (Feb 20, 2008)

Ivan said:


> caddy said:
> 
> 
> > Blueridge Baptist said:
> ...



Scripture Truth - Christian books and study materials.


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## Ivan (Feb 20, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> > caddy said:
> ...



Danke! Not a bad price.


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## matthew11v25 (Feb 20, 2008)

Believe Allan's offers a wide margin in atleast the NKJV:

Bibles-Direct.com


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## caddy (Feb 21, 2008)

matthew11v25 said:


> Believe Allan's offers a wide margin in atleast the NKJV:
> 
> Bibles-Direct.com


 
Ok, now I'm salavating....

Opinions on :

Wide margin edition, morocco goatskin leather, red letter text, two ribbon markers, art gilt page edges, lined writing paper, maps. 


vs.
Wide margin edition, French Morocco leather, red letter text, two ribbon markers, lined writing paper, gilt page edges, maps.


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## Michael (Feb 21, 2008)

matthew11v25 said:


> Believe Allan's offers a wide margin in atleast the NKJV:
> 
> Bibles-Direct.com



Yes, both (however neither are Allan's special bindings):

2 NKJV Cambridge Bibles and 2 KJV Cambridge Reference Concord Editions.


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## caddy (Feb 21, 2008)

Ezekiel16 said:


> matthew11v25 said:
> 
> 
> > Believe Allan's offers a wide margin in atleast the NKJV:
> ...


 
ok, now I'm back to being _bummed out..._


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## caddy (Mar 5, 2008)

Update:

R.L. Allan ESV, NOW in America « Soul deSaenz


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## SueS (Mar 6, 2008)

Ok, here's another question, this time regarding type face.

I thought I had narrowed my choice to either the Brevier Blackface or the Brevier Clarendon with the preference going to the BB because it is the exact size of my current Bible, a size which is very handy to use in church. The self-pronouncing feature initially wasn't a problem because it's in my current Bible and is very handy especially when reading the OT and in Sunday school where our teacher has a bear of a time pronouncing the OT names.  However......I read Mark Bertrand's review of the Blackface where he said even "Jesus" is self-pronouncing (my 30yo Cambridge doesn't go that far) and that the black type is hard on the eyes. On the website the Clarendon is listed as slightly smaller than the Blackface and the print seems to be a bit smaller as well, but it's hard to tell when flipping from one web page to another. I just requested a catalogue but personal opinions would be much appreciated!


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## SueS (Mar 6, 2008)

I just wrote out the comparison of features listed for both editions and the only difference seems to be that the self pronouncing text in the Blackface is substituted with chapter summaries in the Clarendon and that the edging finishes are different.

So.....it all boils down to the question of whether the type will be comfortably readable and Ezekiel16 gives it very high marks. I'm hoping that the print catalogue's examples of the print will be clear enough to compare with my 30yo Cambridge whose print is very clear and ledgible.


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## Blueridge Believer (Mar 6, 2008)

I recieved my Long Primer full yap goatskin last week. The quality is excellent and the workmanship is superb. However, it is no nicer quality than my Cambridge presentation edition goatskin in my opinion. I would reccomend either for someone wanting to purchase a fine quality bible.


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## Casey (Mar 6, 2008)

I'd be interested in a really high quality NKJV Bible, and the Cambridge Bibles look great -- but one looks too tiny, and the other has dimensions that are gargantuan. 

Are there other options for the NKJV translation of similar quality?

(I just requested a catalogue from Allen's, so maybe they've got some options -- hopefully with photos so I have some idea what they look like!)


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## Casey (Mar 6, 2008)

Am I a thread killer?


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## caddy (Mar 6, 2008)

No, but let me take over and see...


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## Michael (Mar 6, 2008)

Sue,

Though I do not own a Blackface I somehow doubt that "Jesus" is printed with the self-pronouncing text. I purchased a Longprimer by Oxford with self-pronouncing text and it did not apply to "Jesus." I think Mr. Bertrand was just giving an example of what self-pronouncing text looks like.

While ordering the catalog will provide excitement about Allan's quality craftsmanship, I'm not sure the pictures and information provided will necessarily settle your mind between the two. The font in the catalog looks practically identical. The only thing that is tiny about the Clarendon is the chapter summaries (and you do get to see this in the catalog), while the main text is _very_ readable in both.

If you would like some pictures of my Clarendon I would be happy send some your way. My digital camera isn't the best in the world but I know what it feels like to want more info on a big purchase. It is an absolutely marvelous bible and reading it is a daily pleasure. I can't imagine that anyone could be dissappointed.

Blessings,


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## Pilgrim (Mar 7, 2008)

StaunchPresbyterian said:


> I'd be interested in a really high quality NKJV Bible, and the Cambridge Bibles look great -- but one looks too tiny, and the other has dimensions that are gargantuan.
> 
> Are there other options for the NKJV translation of similar quality?
> 
> (I just requested a catalogue from Allen's, so maybe they've got some options -- hopefully with photos so I have some idea what they look like!)



The Pitt Minion is a little too small for my taste as well, especially when the price tag is taken into account. It would be great if Cambridge would come out with the NKJV in a Cameo or Concord edition. But they have only started issuing NKJV's within the last year or so, so maybe they will. 

The other premium option that I know of is Nelson's Signature Series. Lifeway often has some in stock, and you can find them at some independent Christian bookstores too. J. Mark Bertrand has a post about the Signature Series here. Although the particular bible he reviews there is KJV, his comments are applicable to the series as a whole. Another option of course is having one rebound.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 7, 2008)

Ezekiel16 said:


> Sue,
> 
> Though I do not own a Blackface I somehow doubt that "Jesus" is printed with the self-pronouncing text. I purchased a Longprimer by Oxford with self-pronouncing text and it did not apply to "Jesus." I think Mr. Bertrand was just giving an example of what self-pronouncing text looks like.
> 
> ...



I was in a bookstore today and did see "Jesus" printed in self pronouncing type in one of the bibles. I think it may have been the blackface but I am not 100% certain.


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## Michael (Mar 7, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> StaunchPresbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be interested in a really high quality NKJV Bible, and the Cambridge Bibles look great -- but one looks too tiny, and the other has dimensions that are gargantuan.
> ...



Hey Chris,

I actually have the NKJV Nelson Signature Bible as well. In case people haven't caught on yet, I collect bibles. My pastor preaches from the NKJV so I bring this bible to service on Sundays. 

Simply put, it's a _very_ nice bible. But is it up to Allan's standards? I'd be dishonest if I said yes. Nelson's version lacks the high quality, acid free India paper, the art gilt edges, and also uses glue in places where Allan's is hand stitched. 

What Nelson's does have on par with RL Allan is wonderful, supple calfskin leather. It's soft as a glove and a pleasure to hold. I've had mine for nearly four years now and it only gets softer with use. 

In a nutshell, Nelson does a great job and is heads and tails above any bible you'd get at your local bookstore. However there's great and then there's Cambridge and RL Allan. I can't understate the difference in quality.


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## Michael (Mar 7, 2008)

Pilgrim said:


> Ezekiel16 said:
> 
> 
> > I was in a bookstore today and did see "Jesus" printed in self pronouncing type in one of the bibles. I think it may have been the blackface but I am not 100% certain.
> ...


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## jmarkbertrand (Mar 13, 2008)

*Self-Pronouncing Jesus*

Just to confirm, the Brevier Blackface does render "Jesus" in self-pronouncing text. (It's pronounced Je'-sus, with a long 'e', if you're wondering.) "Christ" gets the same treatment. And if you've ever wondered how to pronounce Paul, the Brevier Blackface will tell you that, too. It's a little extreme.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 13, 2008)

Ezekiel16 said:


> Pilgrim said:
> 
> 
> > StaunchPresbyterian said:
> ...



I tend to agree. Nelson deserves high marks for the leather, but at times the paper in the Signature Series doesn't seem to be much better than what they put in their ordinary Bibles.


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## etexas (Mar 13, 2008)

SueS said:


> Ok, here's another question, this time regarding type face.
> 
> I thought I had narrowed my choice to either the Brevier Blackface or the Brevier Clarendon with the preference going to the BB because it is the exact size of my current Bible, a size which is very handy to use in church. The self-pronouncing feature initially wasn't a problem because it's in my current Bible and is very handy especially when reading the OT and in Sunday school where our teacher has a bear of a time pronouncing the OT names.  However......I read Mark Bertrand's review of the Blackface where he said even "Jesus" is self-pronouncing (my 30yo Cambridge doesn't go that far) and that the black type is hard on the eyes. On the website the Clarendon is listed as slightly smaller than the Blackface and the print seems to be a bit smaller as well, but it's hard to tell when flipping from one web page to another. I just requested a catalogue but personal opinions would be much appreciated!


Sue, as one who has both the Blackface and the Clarendon, I MUCH prefer my Clarendon, I think the print is better, I do not like the self pronouncing text in the Blackface, I even like the Chapter intros in the Clarendon. Overall.....I think it s the better Bible!


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## SueS (Mar 13, 2008)

etexas said:


> SueS said:
> 
> 
> > Ok, here's another question, this time regarding type face.
> ...








I received my Allan's catalogue the other day (it only took 5 days from the UK!!) and was able to see the print. Also.....the catalogue showed a Cambridge Cameo Bible - the same Bible I am about to retire, and it was done up in full yapp highland goatskin - I was so excited!!! Then, I checked the order form and it was not listed. I then emailed the company and was told that this particular Cambridge Bible is out of print and they don't know when or if it will be reissued - bummer!!! So, when the time comes, I'll be ordering the Clarendon and am sure I'll be very happy with it.

I also asked about their ESV. I bought an ESV Reformation Bible for my dh for Christmas of '06 and we are less than impressed with it. The notes are very good but the physical quality isn't. The paper is very thin and I've had to repair quite a few pages. The folks at Allan's told me that they use a UK printer instead of Crossway and that their paper, although not India paper, is of a better quality. They are planning a reprint sometime this summer and we'll probably check out this Bible at that time. Chuck's present one is not going to hold up very well as a "Sunday-go-to-meetin' Bible" and is better suited as a reference book on his desk. Sure would make life simpler if he would just go back to KJV - we could just order a Long Primer and be done with it!

Oh, my Geneva Bible arrived Monday - it was ordered last Wednesday - talk about fast shipping. It is very nice - better quality than the RB - and reads very much like the KJV. I prefer the size of the Clarendon for taking to church so this one will be my desk version. I think I'm going to like it a lot and even Chuck said it wasn't difficult to read aloud, except for its imposed speech impediments - th, th, th!!


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## Michael (Mar 13, 2008)

Pleasure to see you on the PB Mr. Bertrand! Kudos on a fine book in (Re)thinking Worldview as well as a great site.




jmarkbertrand said:


> Just to confirm, the Brevier Blackface does render \"Jesus\" in self-pronouncing text. (It's pronounced Je'-sus, with a long 'e', if you're wondering.) \"Christ\" gets the same treatment. And if you've ever wondered how to pronounce Paul, the Brevier Blackface will tell you that, too. It's a little extreme.


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## caddy (Mar 13, 2008)

jmarkbertrand said:


> Just to confirm, the Brevier Blackface does render "Jesus" in self-pronouncing text. (It's pronounced Je'-sus, with a long 'e', if you're wondering.) "Christ" gets the same treatment. And if you've ever wondered how to pronounce Paul, the Brevier Blackface will tell you that, too. It's a little extreme.


 
Welcom Mark! I have read a number of your bible reviews over the past couple of years. Finally bit the bullet and ordered an Allen Bible. It should be here tomorrow I'm hoping.


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## etexas (Mar 13, 2008)

caddy said:


> jmarkbertrand said:
> 
> 
> > Just to confirm, the Brevier Blackface does render "Jesus" in self-pronouncing text. (It's pronounced Je'-sus, with a long 'e', if you're wondering.) "Christ" gets the same treatment. And if you've ever wondered how to pronounce Paul, the Brevier Blackface will tell you that, too. It's a little extreme.
> ...


As the "other" Allan promoter I am curious which Allan did you select Brother?


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## caddy (Mar 13, 2008)

etexas said:


> caddy said:
> 
> 
> > jmarkbertrand said:
> ...


 
The ESV 

R.L. Allan Black Highland Goatskin (Black Cover) [Black Letter] - $169.58 : EvangelicalBible.com


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## etexas (Mar 13, 2008)

caddy said:


> etexas said:
> 
> 
> > caddy said:
> ...


Sweet! You will love it!


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## caddy (Mar 13, 2008)

etexas said:


> caddy said:
> 
> 
> > etexas said:
> ...


 
Now I just need to get me a Bowler Hat and I'll be all set!


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## etexas (Mar 13, 2008)

caddy said:


> etexas said:
> 
> 
> > caddy said:
> ...


Don't forget the Rolls! Very important to tote your Allan around in!


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