# Submit to persecution



## Croghanite (Nov 11, 2008)

Question from reading this thread

1) When is the Christian required to submit to physical persecution without defending oneself or defending others? 
If you could give a hypothetical situation, that may help.

I would especially appreciate Elders view on this and please show Scripture references.


----------



## toddpedlar (Nov 11, 2008)

I really don't think anyone can prescribe any "rules", per se. If a life or someone's safety is threatened, I see *nowhere* in the Bible that prohibits taking violent measures to protect them, period.


----------



## Croghanite (Nov 11, 2008)

I don't want this thread thrown in the thread destroyer formally known as politics and government forum. If this post falls in that category, please just delete my post and keep the thread going. 

What if the civil magistrate creates laws that put believers to death for their faith. 
You can flee but if you get caught, should you submit to the punishment?

Are other christians required to defend such that are held captive for their faith?


----------



## OPC'n (Nov 11, 2008)

I think that the NT apostles are our guide. They never physically retaliated or even defended themselves against their persecutors...although Paul appealed to Caesar but this wasn't physical, but they endured persecution without getting all up in arms over it. I think the Gospel should always be forefront. If we are clamming for our rights, then our goals turns to man's needs instead of the Gospel. People can't hear the Gospel you put forth when at the same time "defending" yourself against their persecution.


----------



## Croghanite (Nov 12, 2008)

bump


----------



## Pergamum (Nov 12, 2008)

We need to link the other 2 or 3 threads on this topic (martyrdom, self-defense, etc) to this one.


----------



## Croghanite (Nov 12, 2008)

almost 100 folks have viewed this thread and only two answers.

Can anyone help?


----------



## SolaScriptura (Nov 12, 2008)

Here's what I think:

I write this as one who is brash and proud and quick to justify myself.

But looking at the Biblical text and the examples Jesus, the Apostles, and then historically at the testimony of the Fathers and the martyrs of the early church... my guess is that we should probably be more submissive to - and joyful in! - persecution than we are. 

I mean, we're specifically called to rejoice when we suffer for Christ's sake... and has ANYONE rejoiced for that church in MI which was counted worthy to suffer for Christ? I know that I personally have been too busy thinking over how I'd defend the "helpless" and exact justice against those evildoers to actually obey the plain direct prescriptive teaching of Scripture, which is to rejoice in it. I say that to my shame. Really. I find within myself a greater desire to fight for Jesus than to be slapped for Him. Shame on me... and all who are like me.


----------



## the particular baptist (Nov 12, 2008)

Brother thats a question all people of God should think and meditate on from time to time. I think for those of us that enjoy any measure religious freedom this question will and should give us a deeper appreciation for God's people around the globe that do in fact suffer, and suffer greatly for the Name of our dear Lord. A reference that immediately comes to mind is Foxe's Book of Martyrs, a hard book to read but its been awhile and its time to pick it up again. 

To answer the original question in Foxe's book there are many many such examples but not hypothetical, they happened. 

I remember in the book of one dear sister in the Lord that was forced to watch her 8 yr old son suffer the unspeakable agonies of torture to get her to recant only to see her speak Psalms from memory and encourage her boy stay strong till the end. Such behavior in the midst of pain and evil is incomprehensible but i would like to think that if i were in a similar or any situation i would not betray my Lord no matter the cost.

in Christ,
flavio


----------



## Pergamum (Nov 12, 2008)

LAYMAN JOE said:


> almost 100 folks have viewed this thread and only two answers.
> 
> Can anyone help?



I interacted a lot with the other two threads, but just don't have time for anther round right now.


----------



## staythecourse (Nov 13, 2008)

It's a great question but hard to answer.

Read FOxes book of martyrs and you're attitude will soften. Read (name title) and you will be ready to have a concealed weapon or two.

Biblically we have the (for me) confusing texts of "carry a sword" by our Lord in the NT but no references of it being used by "us" again.

You ask some/most/all of the men here and they'll literally kill for their spouse and children. I can't see that as "illegal" in God's eyes though probably a little too much attachment to this world. Big words I know, but I am thinking of the effect on us when we spend much time "hanging out in heaven" in thoughts, prayer, bible study, and Christ-reflection. In that reflection, I believe we would become less violent and more willing to take it (whatever level "it" becomes) as Christ lives in us. But I couldn't expect my children to take my "maturity" if that's what it is and let them suffer.

That was a mind-dump. I'll fix the grammar later.


----------

