# Perfect periphrastic Participle - Ephesians



## Sydnorphyn (Aug 7, 2007)

Suggestions for translating the perfect (middle/passive) periphrastic in Eph. 2.8a.

Thanks in advance.

John


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## MW (Aug 7, 2007)

Literally, the perfect passive participle means "having been saved;" but this detracts from the present reality. Contextually, "are saved" gives force to the passage's emphasis on the present condition as a result of what has been accomplished "en Xristw."


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## KMK (Aug 7, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Literally, the perfect passive participle means "having been saved;" but this detracts from the present reality. Contextually, "are saved" gives force to the passage's emphasis on the present condition as a result of what has been accomplished "en Xristw."



Interestingly, Young's Literal translates it this way: "for by grace ye are having been saved..."


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## Sydnorphyn (Aug 10, 2007)

armourbearer said:


> Literally, the perfect passive participle means "having been saved;" but this detracts from the present reality. Contextually, "are saved" gives force to the passage's emphasis on the present condition as a result of what has been accomplished "en Xristw."



Thanks, but the perfect carries into the present - of the writer and hearer, that is. Not to say it does not to us as well. What if one translates it "being", then the verbal (aspect) form carries an ongoing action, (W)right? Might this passage be compared to, let's say, Phil. 2.12-13 - "work out your salvation... ?

Thanks for responding.


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## mbj0680 (Aug 21, 2007)

> Thanks, but the perfect carries into the present - of the writer and hearer, that is. Not to say it does not to us as well. What if one translates it "being", then the verbal (aspect) form carries an ongoing action, (W)right? Might this passage be compared to, let's say, Phil. 2.12-13 - "work out your salvation... ?



I would say no, more to the effect: "remember who you are in Christ" becuse Eph 1-3 is not didactic, but doctrinal in nature. Chapters 4-6 is practical how to live the doctrines of 1-3. In chapter one we see Paul writting to the faithful who are already in Christ. That is why it is in the perfect tense. As already stated perfect tense simply relates to past time with present results. Passive relates the subject as the recipient of the action. And the participle is the verbal noun. "ing, or ed". In this case "having been saved" is a good rendering. The context is 2:4-10 Paul is reminding those who are faithful in Christ that they once were dead in there tresspasses and sins, but now "having been saved" by grace (past action) they are in Christ (present result) and are His workmanship (correct focus) prepared for them before the foundation of the world. It's as if Paul is saying you were once dead in sin, now because of the grace of God and His mercy you are now in Christ for His purpose. In chapter 4-6 Paul tells us how to live out that reality. 

Hope this helps,


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## KMK (Aug 21, 2007)

mbj0680 said:


> > Thanks, but the perfect carries into the present - of the writer and hearer, that is. Not to say it does not to us as well. What if one translates it "being", then the verbal (aspect) form carries an ongoing action, (W)right? Might this passage be compared to, let's say, Phil. 2.12-13 - "work out your salvation... ?
> 
> 
> 
> I would say no, more to the effect: "remember who you are in Christ" becuse Eph 1-3 is not didactic, but doctrinal in nature. Chapters 4-6 is practical how to live the doctrines of 1-3. In chapter one we see Paul writting to the faithful who are already in Christ. That is why it is in the perfect tense. As already stated perfect tense simply relates to past time with present results. Passive relates the subject as the recipient of the action. And the participle is the verbal noun. "ing, or ed". In this case "having been saved" is a good rendering. The context is 2:4-10 Paul is reminding those who are faithful in Christ that they once were dead in there tresspasses and sins, but now "having been saved" by grace (past action) they are in Christ (present result) and are His workmanship (correct focus) prepared for them before the foundation of the world. It's as if Paul is saying you were once dead in sin, now because of the grace of God and His mercy you are now in Christ for His purpose. In chapter 4-6 Paul tells us how to live out that reality.



Halleluiah!


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