# Walking the talk



## Herald (Feb 19, 2008)

How do we bring our theology and our daily Christian walk into balance? This is a question that has dogged me years. Venues such as the Puritan Board serve a great need. They allow Christians to pursue theological knowledge in a community of like minded individuals. Doctrines are postulated, attacked, defended, adopted, abandoned, modified etc. Two popular theological topics that are discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseaum are baptism and the sabbath. The posts can range from benign to vitriolic, but in the end I wonder how these doctrines filter down into the daily life of a believer. Is our quest simply to have answers and have all our theological ducks in a row, or are we seeking to conform more to the image of Christ? I know what the answer should be, it's just that I don't always see it realized. Many Christians possess a commanding knowledge of theology but suffer from depression and spiritual impotence. Why is that? I know that my own battles with spiritual depression have (at times) left me incapable of praying, reading or serving Christ. I have been there and understand it is a topic that most Christians avoid talking about. Pastors are ill equipped to deal with it, in fact many pastors suffer with depression themselves. Call it a crisis of faith, depression, or a time of testing – sometimes what we know is not in congruence with how we live. 

How do we deal with this in our own life?

How do we minister to others who are going through it?

How do we keep from going through it?


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 19, 2008)

We keep clinging to the Cross and fighting tooth and nail against our own sin brother. We must ever stay vigilant and humble and strive with all that's in us to be a blessing to others.
We live in a fallen world in fallen bodies. The curse is all around us. I meditate a lot about death. I'm nearly 49 now and I want what's left of my life to count in Christs service. I do not have any more time to waste.
I struggle with sin, depression and anxiety everyday it seems, but amid all of that I get the biggest blessings from the Lord. I try to live everyday with the providence of God on my mind and prayerfully beseeching His mercy to overcome my corruptions.


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## Grymir (Feb 19, 2008)

Conan theological application style works, "Crush your enemies, See them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the arminians!"


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## Herald (Feb 19, 2008)

Brother James, I suppose our Western culture is always looking for a quick answer. Take a pill and get better. But there is no pill that can give us peace. I do know that many Christians are suffering, in despair of almost life itself. Perhaps there is no remedy other than to cling to Christ as one would grab hold of a life preserver in a raging sea. And the truth is there are times in my when I pray that God would grant me the *desire *to hate sin. I should already hate sin, but there are times when I don't. I'm just getting some thoughts out. I don't want anyone to think I'm standing on a bridge ready to jump. This is one of those days when I am not satisfied in what I know. God grant His children the desire and ability to *live *what they know.


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## Barnpreacher (Feb 19, 2008)

Romans 6. I think it is essential that we as believers understand we are DEAD to sin, but ALIVE unto Christ. I think it essential that we understand that we were once slaves to sin, but now we are slaves to God. It is not our right or choice as believers to serve God, it is *who we are*.

I think we must meditate on this and allow the Spirit of God to drive it home to our hearts. I think we must preach to ourselves that we are dead to sin and alive to Christ. Sin does not have power and dominion over us any longer. It wants to rob us of peace and joy and so many other things, but we must fight, fight, fight off unbelief by the Gospel of Christ and the promises of grace found therein.


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## Amazing Grace (Feb 19, 2008)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> How do we bring our theology and our daily Christian walk into balance? This is a question that has dogged me years. Venues such as the Puritan Board serve a great need. They allow Christians to pursue theological knowledge in a community of like minded individuals. Doctrines are postulated, attacked, defended, adopted, abandoned, modified etc. Two popular theological topics that are discussed ad infinitum, ad nauseaum are baptism and the sabbath. The posts can range from benign to vitriolic, but in the end I wonder how these doctrines filter down into the daily life of a believer. Is our quest simply to have answers and have all our theological ducks in a row, or are we seeking to conform more to the image of Christ? I know what the answer should be, it's just that I don't always see it realized. Many Christians possess a commanding knowledge of theology but suffer from depression and spiritual impotence. Why is that? I know that my own battles with spiritual depression have (at times) left me incapable of praying, reading or serving Christ. I have been there and understand it is a topic that most Christians avoid talking about. Pastors are ill equipped to deal with it, in fact many pastors suffer with depression themselves. Call it a crisis of faith, depression, or a time of testing – sometimes what we know is not in congruence with how we live.
> 
> How do we deal with this in our own life?
> 
> ...





Love Christ and our brothers BB. This is the root of all. It is a great help to have one close to you who can talk with you during these situations. 

I liken myself to the parable of the good smaritan at times. I would not have walked by, but I probably would have walked over and asked "DO you believe in Election?" Now dont laugh, cause it is true. Asking a dying man, physically and spiritually if they are credo or padeo shows our rottennes and lack of love.


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## Mushroom (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm bumping this thread because when I first read it late last night, I thought it might be very helpful to those of us with similar struggles to hear how others are overcoming them. Personally I could use all the insight I can find in these matters. Hope nobody minds. May honesty and real love for one another here strengthen us all to bring greater glory to our Redeemer.


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## Ivan (Feb 20, 2008)

Blueridge Baptist said:


> I'm nearly 49 now and I want what's left of my life to count in Christs service.



Amen, brother! AMEN!! Considering my ancestors I may have twenty good years left, dv. 

Hand to the plow!


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## Ivan (Feb 20, 2008)

Amazing Grace said:


> Asking a dying man, physically and spiritually if they are credo or padeo shows our rottennes and lack of love.



This sentence is something that is good for all of us to think about.


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 20, 2008)

Growing worse?

(John Angell James, "Christian Progress" 1853)

One of the last lessons we effectually learn, is 
that true godliness is a constant conflict in a
believer's heart--between sin and holiness. 

Some sincere believers mistake a clearer view, and 
deeper sense of their depravity, for an actual increase 
of sin. The Christian seems sometimes to himself, to 
be growing worse, when actually it is only that he 
sees more clearly what in fact he really is!

In the early stages of our Christian life, we have 
usually but a slender acquaintance with the evil 
of our sinfulness, and the depravity of our heart. 
The mind is so much taken up with pardon and 
eternal life, that it is but imperfectly acquainted 
with those depths of deceit and wickedness,
which lie hidden in itself. 

At first we seem to feel as if the serpent were killed.
But we soon find that he was only asleep--for by the 
warmth of some fiery temptation, he is revived and 
hisses at us again! 

Nothing astonishes an inexperienced believer more 
than the discoveries he is continually making of the 
evils of his heart. Corruptions which he never dreamt to 
be in him, are brought out by some new circumstances.

It is like turning up the soil, which brings out worms 
and insects, which did not appear upon the surface. 

Or to vary the illustration, his increasing knowledge 
of God's holy nature, of the perfect law, and the 
example of Christ--is like opening the shutters, and 
letting light into a dark room, the filth of which, 
the inhabitant did not see until the sunbeams


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## JBaldwin (Feb 20, 2008)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> How do we deal with this in our own life?
> 
> How do we minister to others who are going through it?
> 
> How do we keep from going through it?



To echo what has already been said about our sinfulness: Paul started out by saying he was the least of the apostles and by the time he reached the end of his life, he was the chief of sinners. I believe the answer is Philippians 3:7-12 
_7 But whatever gain I had, I counted as loss for the sake of Christ. 8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ 9 and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which comes through faith in Christ, the righteousness from God that depends on faith— 10 that I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, 11 that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead.
12 Not that I have already obtained this or am already perfect, but I press on to make it my own, because Christ Jesus has made me his own. _

It goes back to this and having the mind of Christ. The prayer that changed my life was, "Father, grant me the mind of Christ. Enable me to see the world through Your eyes, may I love the way You love, hate sin the way You hate sin, live like Jesus lived." 

How do we deal with this in our own lives? We don't without the grace and power of Christ.

How do we minister to others who are going through it? We direct them to Christ, we love them the way He loved them. 

How do we keep from going through it? We can't. Part of being a Christian is sharing in His sufferings, and I do believe that all we go through has already been experienced by Christ Himself, and so as we walk through these valleys of the shadow of death we find "He is with us!" 

Christ above me, Christ beside me, Christ within me ever guiding, Christ behind me, Christ before, Christ my love, my life, my All! (taken from a 4th century prayer)


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## moral necessity (Feb 20, 2008)

BaptistInCrisis said:


> Brother James, I suppose our Western culture is always looking for a quick answer. Take a pill and get better. But there is no pill that can give us peace. I do know that many Christians are suffering, in despair of almost life itself. Perhaps there is no remedy other than to cling to Christ as one would grab hold of a life preserver in a raging sea. And the truth is there are times in my when I pray that God would grant me the *desire *to hate sin. I should already hate sin, but there are times when I don't. I'm just getting some thoughts out. I don't want anyone to think I'm standing on a bridge ready to jump. This is one of those days when I am not satisfied in what I know. God grant His children the desire and ability to *live *what they know.



I relate well to what you are saying. My view of my sin is so immense that I know I breathe it out of every pore of my body, and it would be as a stentch to God, were it not for the fragrance of Christ covering it. If I examine my heart, I find sin to be a love/hate relationship, with the love part very much alive in greater or less degrees to various sins, and the hate part is present though not easily seen. As I've said before, the reason why we sin is because we don't love Jesus enough. Certainly we lament our condition before the Lord. But, we must always be honest about our condition before him. I must never give an inaccurate assessment. God intends for us to have such accuracy, and will rebuke our stubbornness towards it with a greater aliveness of our sins' reality. We must come to the place where we accurately view ourselves as nothing but a fountain of sin, a factory that only produces sin all of the time, and yet a fountain that has now been tapped into by another source, namely that of grace, which bears fruit in its season. His infusion of the principle of grace into our souls begins only as a spark, like a small candle in the middle of the ocean, like a small stream breaking its channel into an old river, and the process of renewal begins. Our faculites of the mind, will, and affections that were once corrupted and owned by the principle of sin have now been invaded by the principle of grace. They are no longer dominated by one principle, but are influenced by two, and so sin no longer "reigns" or is the absolute ruler there. The Holy Spirit has intruded, and is now weilding influence as well. 

It's okay to admit that there are times that you do not hate sin. In fact, if you were to say that there were not times like that, then I would be worried; for then your sanctification would already be complete and you would have already experienced glorification, which is not possible. It is not at all strange that we see that we still have a liking towards sin. It's more strange that we don't admit it, and yet it is not so strange. Paul admitted it. Yet, we grow up in a christian society where we are taught that christians live on some sort of a higher level than unbelievers; that if they admit to these sinful desires that they still have, then they are admitting that they live on a level of defeat. But, justification does not lead to instant sanctification. Sanctification assumes the cancer in us is still a present reality. If it were not present, then we would not need to be sanctified anymore. 

None of this leads to sin being now permissable. This isn't promoting satisfaction with our condition. But, it is expressing the reality of it. God already knows we don't love him as we should, and that we still gravitate to sin. Otherwise, why would we need commands and instruction/warnings to do different? The commands do not reveal our ability, but rather the goal, and admit that we are still far off from arrival. God knows we are still distant from that goal. He knows our love and obedience is still mostly corrupted with sin, most of which we don't see but he does. In fact, if he were to measure it, our love and obedience to him would be measured according to what we would do if we had no command from him to do anything. Would we love God with all of our heart, soul, mind, strength if it were permissable for us not to? Would love for God flow from our beings naturally, simply because it was our character and nature to love only God in the infinite degree? Would he be the only object of our affection and desire simply because our affections and desires naturally flow and our bent in that direction, just as a river naturally flows to the left or the right because that is the way its channel is contoured or bent? This is what it means by "writing the law upon our hearts." It becomes our nature to exhibit it, to where no command or law is necessary to compel us or direct us to exhibit it. It's like an apple tree bearing apples instead of oranges. It needs no command to restrain it to not do so, nor does it need a command for it to do so, for it does so naturally, as it's nature compels it to.

The reality is, the channel of our river is still very much bent and contoured towards sin, as believers. That's why it takes rules and regulations to keep us in check, and to stifle the flow of our river. Many read scripture and pray because it is a necessary discipline. But, do we watch TV because it is a necessary discipline? Do we nap on the couch because it is a necessary discipline? Do we go fishing or do we eat our favorite food out of discipline? If we only did exactly what we wanted to do all of the time, what would we do? 

These kinds of thoughts cause me to cry out, "O wretched man that I still am, who will set me free from the body of this death?" So, I stand with you, B. Brown. "Our salvation" (or deliverance - as the word means) from this sinful principle within us "lies in hope". "...we ourselves, who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait eagerly for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies. For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience." 

Meanwhile, we are not in despair, for we are now children of God, and nothing can separate us from him, as Rom.8 goes on to say. And, the sin within us can no longer condemn us, because, as Romans 6:7 says, "we have been justified from sin." And, we are confident in this, that "he who did not spare his own Son but gave him up for us all, how will he not also with him freely give us all things?" And, we are confident with Paul that "he who began the good work in us will complete it."

Your honesty is refreshing, brother!

Blessings!


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## Pergamum (Feb 21, 2008)

Grymir said:


> Conan theological application style works, "Crush your enemies, See them driven before you, and hear the lamentation of the arminians!"



YIKES! 

For this statement to be God-honoring we would have to conclude that ALL Arminians are godless and our enemies.

If Arminianism is a spectrum of belief and there are saved sons of God in the arminain camp, then our response would be to pray for our brothers who err, that they might see greater light.

The way you wrote it, it makes it sounds as if the church's chief enemy is arminianism as opposed to other doctrinal errors and to unbelief and Islam itself.


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## Pergamum (Feb 21, 2008)

To live the Gospel I think we must always be reminded of how bad sin. 

To do this in ways not merely intellectual this means that we must see and experience the effects of sin in the lives of others continually. 

To do this, we must be where sinners are and be a light in their midst. 

Only then does the Gospel not be reduced to an academic exercise or trying to formulate a bigger system (bigger club) to beat those who differ with us over the head with.


When we place ourselves in the midst of the sinful and dying then we truly understand that it is only by God's grace we are made to differ and that the Gospel is not mere ivory tower stuff, but it is medicine to the sick and dying, whose stink and rot already pervade this world.


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## Blueridge Believer (Feb 21, 2008)

Isa 57:15 For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.
Isa 57:16 For I will not contend for ever, neither will I be always wroth: for the spirit should fail before me, and the souls which I have made.
Isa 57:17 For the iniquity of his covetousness was I wroth, and smote him: I hid me, and was wroth, and he went on frowardly in the way of his heart. 
Isa 57:18 I have seen his ways, and will heal him: I will lead him also, and restore comforts unto him and to his mourners. 
Isa 57:19 I create the fruit of the lips; Peace, peace to him that is far off, and to him that is near, saith the LORD; and I will heal him.


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