# Seminary courses on Logic



## Stephen L Smith (Mar 28, 2020)

Just wondering - do many Reformed Seminaries teach courses on logic. Specifically to equip pastors to use careful logical thinking in their ministry? I have a friend who did a course in logic at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Is this widespread at Reformed Seminaries?


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## RamistThomist (Mar 28, 2020)

I'm not aware of any. I wouldn't be surprised, though, if the Biola-Talbot nexus did at least seminars on it. Given their bent in philosophical theology and apologetics, that would make sense.

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## Alan D. Strange (Mar 29, 2020)

Logic is not part of the classical/standard seminary curriculum (apologetics is). 

Logic and other philosophy courses are propadeutic to seminary study, as are speech, history and certain other courses commonly taken in an undergraduate curriculum. 

Some seminaries now teach such courses as part of a four-year curriculum (GPTS, as noted) or as ancillary in some other fashion. Seminary students, for a variety of reasons (including second career men), not infrequently need what they would have gotten if pre-ministerial as an undergraduate but did not get (perhaps they were BS instead of BA)and do not have. 

Again, logic is not one of the courses among the variety of courses that make up the four-fold division of the historic seminary curriculum: biblical, ecclesiastical, doctrinal, and ministerial. Some seminaries, however, teach it in some fashion because they deem it useful for students who've not studied it before coming to seminary. 

Peace,
Alan

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## Stephen L Smith (Mar 29, 2020)

Alan D. Strange said:


> Again, logic is not one of the courses among the variety of courses that make up the four-fold division of the historic seminary curriculum: biblical, ecclesiastical, doctrinal, and ministerial. Some seminaries, however, teach it in some fashion because they deem it useful for students who've not studied it before coming to seminary.


Thank you Alan. I was interested because I have a friend who studied at GPTS as I previously mentioned, but also I was quite impressed with a video clip on the "Logic on fire: the life and legacy of Dr Martyn Lloyd-Jones". This clip mentioned that at the Ministers fraternal chaired by MLJ, ministers were urged to study logic and think carefully in all areas of their ministry. Further, in this documentary, MLJ preaching is described as "logic on fire".


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## RamistThomist (Mar 29, 2020)

Best thing to do is get a standard logic text (Copi and Cohen) and just practice it. JP Moreland's _Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview _has a chapter that will give you more info than you need.

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## TylerRay (Mar 29, 2020)

Stephen L Smith said:


> Just wondering - do many Reformed Seminaries teach courses on logic. Specifically to equip pastors to use careful logical thinking in their ministry? I have a friend who did a course in logic at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary. Is this widespread at Reformed Seminaries?


My apologetics class included an overview.

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## RamistThomist (Mar 29, 2020)

Another thing to consider is the difference between a seminary/divinity school and a PhD university. The former, if I can oversimplify and reduce it to the bottom line, is to crank out preacher boys. Aunt Lula May in the pew doesn't need you to know the finer points of modal logic.

That's the hard truth. A research university might cover these aspects (but in light of Critical Theory's insistence that logic is a White Male construct used to marginalize transgender Aborigines, then in again they might not emphasize it).


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## User20004000 (Mar 29, 2020)

Stephen et al.,

Greg Bahnsen’s course could be of interest. I believed he might’ve taught these at Christ College. Nineteen lectures.

https://www.wordmp3.com/product-group.aspx?id=194


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## RamistThomist (Mar 29, 2020)

RWD said:


> Stephen et al.,
> 
> Greg Bahnsen’s course could be of interest. I believed he might’ve taught these at Christ College. Nineteen lectures.
> 
> https://www.wordmp3.com/product-group.aspx?id=194



I used some of his lectures to study for my college Logic final exam. I made a B. I was okay with that.

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## RamistThomist (Mar 29, 2020)

Poythress's book on logic has some outstanding chapters. I liked it a whole lot. My only problem is that the first 100 or so pages was a worldview primer. That's great, but if you have read his and Frame's other stuff, it isn't new.


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## Stephen L Smith (Mar 31, 2020)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Best thing to do is get a standard logic text (Copi and Cohen) and just practice it.





BayouHuguenot said:


> Poythress's book on logic has some outstanding chapters.


I have both these works, yes I find them helpful and think they nicely compliment each other.


BayouHuguenot said:


> JP Moreland's _Philosophical Foundations for a Christian Worldview _has a chapter that will give you more info than you need.


I have read it. I found it hard going because he tries to cover a lot in one chapter which I found daunting. I prefer Copi and Cohen, and Poythress.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 31, 2020)

Stephen L Smith said:


> I have both these works, yes I find them helpful and think they nicely compliment each other.
> 
> I have read it. I found it hard going because he tries to cover a lot in one chapter which I found daunting. I prefer Copi and Cohen, and Poythress.



Yeah, he tries to introduce modal logic too early. Unless you are doing specialized work on the ontological argument and the free will debate, you don't need a firm mastery of modal logic.

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## deleteduser99 (Mar 31, 2020)

RWD said:


> Stephen et al.,
> 
> Greg Bahnsen’s course could be of interest. I believed he might’ve taught these at Christ College. Nineteen lectures.
> 
> https://www.wordmp3.com/product-group.aspx?id=194



Now listening to first lecture. Thanks!

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## Stephen L Smith (Mar 31, 2020)

RWD said:


> Greg Bahnsen’s course could be of interest. I believed he might’ve taught these at Christ College. Nineteen lectures.


Thank you. I have his 70+ lectures on the History of Philosophy. Bahnsen is very insightful.

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## Stephen L Smith (Mar 31, 2020)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Poythress's book on logic has some outstanding chapters. I liked it a whole lot. My only problem is that the first 100 or so pages was a worldview primer. That's great, but if you have read his and *Frame's *other stuff, it isn't new.


Coming back to this post Jacob, given that worldview is vitally important today, and given that you won't find worldview as such in Copi and Cohen, I did like Poythress' section on worldview. It did give me an appreciation for using worldview in logic, and gave me a better framework for studying Copi and Cohen. Indeed it helped me *Frame *my thinking 

That said, I need to finish reading Poythress, Copi and Cohen


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## RamistThomist (Mar 31, 2020)

Stephen L Smith said:


> Coming back to this post Jacob, given that worldview is vitally important today, and given that you won't find worldview as such in Copi and Cohen, I did like Poythress' section on worldview. It did give me an appreciation for using worldview in logic, and gave me a better framework for studying Copi and Cohen. Indeed it helped me *Frame *my thinking
> 
> That said, I need to finish reading Poythress, Copi and Cohen



That's true. Copi/Cohen also deals with induction, which Poythress really didn't. And while worldview is important, some of its practioners overanalyze issues that really aren't there. For example, Poythress criticized Plantinga's "Possible Worlds" argument because Plantinga said God exists in every possible world. Seems right enough. Poythress then attacked him because he said God was *in* the world, not transcendent to it. I thought that was nitpicking.

Still, I like him.

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## jwithnell (Mar 31, 2020)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Aunt Lula May in the pew doesn't need you to know the finer points of modal logic.


The Lula Maes in the congregation like me certainly benefit from sitting under preaching that comes from a rigorously trained mind. Going into the various developments of logic may indeed be excessive, but Aristotelian logic, if not Boolean, should certainly be expected of men _before_ they start their seminary studies.

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## RamistThomist (Mar 31, 2020)

jwithnell said:


> The Lula Maes in the congregation like me certainly benefit from sitting under preaching that comes from a rigorously trained mind. Going into the various developments of logic may indeed be excessive, but Aristotelian logic, if not Boolean, should certainly be expected of men _before_ they start their seminary studies.



I agree. I'm just summarizing preacher mills.

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