# Premillennial explanation for this verse..



## Jeremy Ivens (Jan 8, 2016)

First, I'm not premillennial but I'm not being a smart alick. How can there be a literal earthly reign of Christ when we have this:

2 Peter 3:10 - 
But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a roar, and the heavenly bodies will be burned up and dissolved, and the earth and the works that are done on it will be exposed.


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## Leslie (Jan 9, 2016)

I am premill. There are many references in both the OT and NT, mainly OT. The day of the Lord is the day when He takes vengeance on His enemies. In my own mind it's uncertain whether this will be before or after the 1000 year reign; this verse seems to imply after. The day of the Lord is not necessarily the first time (after the present year) when Jesus appears on earth. The OT is quite consistent with describing it as a cataclysmic event.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 9, 2016)

A premill could say this happens after the final judgment, which is logically consistent (just pointing out logical consistency; not saying this is the exegetical explanation)


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## Vox Oculi (Jan 9, 2016)

Jeremy Ivens said:


> 2 Peter 3:10 -
> But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away



I would want to study the Greek to be sure, but it could simply be that "and then" indicates a shift from talking about the Day of the Lord (understood as the Tribulation/Wrath) to skipping to the White Throne Judgment after the Millennium. Jesus' speech in Matthew 24 employs the same sort of dramatic unannounced shift.

ed: here is the Matt 24 reference, which timing, let's fairly say, is confusing upon first reading.

_



Then Jesus went out and departed from the temple, and His disciples came up to show Him the buildings of the temple. 2 And Jesus said to them, “Do you not see all these things? Assuredly, I say to you, not one stone shall be left here upon another, that shall not be thrown down.”

The Signs of the Times and the End of the Age
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying, “Tell us, when will these things be? And what will be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?”

4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all[a] these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. 7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, pestilences,* and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.

The Great Tribulation
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’[c] spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.

23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.

26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.

The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.*

Click to expand...

_*

As for my 'Day of the Lord' assignment to the Wrath in the Tribulation, 

Revelation 6




15 And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains, 16 and said to the mountains and rocks, “Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the wrath of the Lamb! 17 For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?”

Click to expand...

*


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## Edm (Jan 9, 2016)

Sorta off topic, but not totally, in a premill view, all the Christians will be raptures leaving only no believers on earth. So there will at that point be no Church on earth, and Christianity will be dead. Who will restore the Church? There are no believers left. I had not considered this until reading this question this morning.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 9, 2016)

Edm said:


> Sorta off topic, but not totally, in a premill view, all the Christians will be raptures leaving only no believers on earth. So there will at that point be no Church on earth, and Christianity will be dead. Who will restore the Church? There are no believers left. I had not considered this until reading this question this morning.



That's only true in the pre-tribulational scheme. In the post-trib/historic premil view, the rapture, so to speak, is a going up to heaven and meeting Jesus in the air, only to triumphally proceed back to earth. So it isn't quite accurate to say there will be "no believers on earth."


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## Vox Oculi (Jan 9, 2016)

ReformedReidian said:


> Edm said:
> 
> 
> > Sorta off topic, but not totally, in a premill view, all the Christians will be raptures leaving only no believers on earth. So there will at that point be no Church on earth, and Christianity will be dead. Who will restore the Church? There are no believers left. I had not considered this until reading this question this morning.
> ...



Were there no believers on earth prior to ~33 AD, Edm? Of course there were. The Church is a very specific entity which has a specific duration -- until as Paul says in Romans 11, "the fullness of the Gentiles has come in." People come to faith after the Rapture, and they are termed 'tribulation saints.' They are not part of the Church. The Church is not mentioned by name at any point after the conclusion of John's letters to the churches in Asia Minor, in Revelation. Many mentions of believers and of Israel, but a deafening silence about the Church. This is, per your question, exactly necessary to be consistent with the Bible. Jesus says that the gates of hell shall not prevail against the Church. Then in Revelation the Antichrist is described as prevailing against and overcoming the saints. If the saints are the Church, Jesus' words are in question. A common sense appeal can be made this way: the Church has not been prevailed against by the gates of hell as a consequence of the Rapture, because 1) the Church Age has ended and 2) it is Jesus who initiates the Rapture. It does not represent a failure of faith.

Another common sense point: what is the purpose of flying up in the air to promptly return within minutes? On the contrary, it makes perfect sense for the Church to be removed _before_ the Tribulation begins, because "we are not appointed to wrath" and Revelation ~5 says that "the great day of God's wrath has come" -- why would God punish the Church with His wrath? The purpose of the Tribulation, from a systematic theology perspective, is to deal with the unbelieving Gentiles and with the children of Israel. Nothing in the scheme of the eschaton in Revelation has anything to do with the Church.


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## Edm (Jan 9, 2016)

ReformedReidian said:


> Edm said:
> 
> 
> > Sorta off topic, but not totally, in a premill view, all the Christians will be raptures leaving only no believers on earth. So there will at that point be no Church on earth, and Christianity will be dead. Who will restore the Church? There are no believers left. I had not considered this until reading this question this morning.
> ...




Yes. I said premil. Refering to pre trib rapture line of thought. I could have been more clear I see.


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