# Question about Rom. 10:13



## fralo4truth (Nov 24, 2010)

The text reads: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".

This text has always stumped me somewhat. I have searched for great expositions of this passage, but so far have not found any to my own satisfaction.

I'm wondering if Paul here is using the term 'saved' as synonymous with regeneration, or is he speaking of being saved in its broad sense as including sanctification and the consummation of our salvation in the last day. If he is referring to regeneration then is this not placing works before regeneration?

Do we call in ORDER TO be saved?

Thanks for your thoughts.


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## Contra_Mundum (Nov 24, 2010)

I think, similar to Jn.3:16, the promise is that "the one who calls" will surely be saved. (in Jn.3:16, it is "the believer" who is sure to not perish)

In the context, the importance of "hearing Christ" for salvation is paramount. Just as the heart to believe is a gift of God, so too all the business of hearing--from the content, to the proclamation or presentation, to the ears that can hear (as opposed to dead/deaf ears) is all of God's doing.

I would also say the Paul is probably thinking of "saved" in its maximum connotation--all the way to glory.


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## jambo (Nov 24, 2010)

I would take this verse in its simplest terms. We know that no one can come to the son unless the father draws him. We know that salvation is all of God and that no one can call upon God without the enabling of the Holy Spirit. Whereas previously God was the God of Israel and the approach was made via the sacrificial system, the temple, the law etc, and even then there were restrictions on none Jews. But now Jew and Gentile can approach God in the same way6 (through Christ) and both can call out to God.

When a sinner is moved to the edge of repentance he is not interested in the mechanics of it all. He just wants to be forgiven and cries out to God. Likewise when a person is at an end of himself and can do no other but call out to God, he does so and God saves him. The person had no idea the Spirit has been working in him to bring him to that point. He does not realise that divine providence had engineered his circumstances so that he comes to the point he is now at. The conversion of John Bunyan would illustrate this point. 

It might be like asking _when_ are the elect saved? Is it in eternity past when God elected them? At Calvary when Christ actually died for them? Or at the point of conversion? If God has elected a person then that guarantees that Christ will redeem that person and that that person will one day be moved by the Holy Spirit to call out to God to save him.


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## au5t1n (Nov 24, 2010)

Saved from the wrath of God on judgment day.


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## fralo4truth (Nov 24, 2010)

I think I agree with you Bruce. In that case, 'calling upon the name of the Lord' would not mean a *one-time* thing someone does in order to usher in regeneration. Rather, what is meant is that those who *practice *calling upon the name of the Lord shall receive final salvation in the end.

The only thing that makes it hard for me to see final salvation here is verse 10 though: "confession is made unto salvation". The language seems to point towards an event in our lives in which salvation is achieved. It's hard for me not to see this as regeneration.

Thanks for your helpful thought.

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jambo said:


> I would take this verse in its simplest terms. We know that no one can come to the son unless the father draws him. We know that salvation is all of God and that no one can call upon God without the enabling of the Holy Spirit. Whereas previously God was the God of Israel and the approach was made via the sacrificial system, the temple, the law etc, and even then there were restrictions on none Jews. But now Jew and Gentile can approach God in the same way6 (through Christ) and both can call out to God.
> 
> When a sinner is moved to the edge of repentance he is not interested in the mechanics of it all. He just wants to be forgiven and cries out to God. Likewise when a person is at an end of himself and can do no other but call out to God, he does so and God saves him. The person had no idea the Spirit has been working in him to bring him to that point. He does not realise that divine providence had engineered his circumstances so that he comes to the point he is now at. The conversion of John Bunyan would illustrate this point.
> 
> It might be like asking _when_ are the elect saved? Is it in eternity past when God elected them? At Calvary when Christ actually died for them? Or at the point of conversion? If God has elected a person then that guarantees that Christ will redeem that person and that that person will one day be moved by the Holy Spirit to call out to God to save him.


 
When you speak of the Spirit working in him to bring him to that point, are you speaking of prevenient grace?


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## LeeD (Nov 24, 2010)

I have also heard the context behind the passage as referencing those who will call on the the name of the Lord Jesus when Roman soldiers demand they call Ceasar Lord. So amidst persecutions and even facing death, those who call upon Christ as Lord will be saved. Any thoughts on this?

Matthew 10:33 "but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven."


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## PuritanCovenanter (Nov 24, 2010)

> (Rom 10:8) But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;...
> (Rom 10:14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
> (Rom 10:15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
> (Rom 10:16) But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
> (Rom 10:17) So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God."



I am not sure this is a place to reference the order of Salvation concerning regeneration and faith. 
I am pretty positive that this is a place where we can say that calling upon the Lord and true faith are expressed here as a response of obedience to the gospel. Thus resulting in salvation which is firmly planted in the righteousness of Christ as opposed to trying to being just before God in the manner the Israelites were trying to be just before God.



> (Rom 10:1) Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
> 
> (Rom 10:2) For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
> 
> ...



I believe it would be a good idea to look at the whole text surrounding your one passage. Belief, Faith, Calling upon the Lord, and being saved are closely tied together.


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## Peairtach (Nov 24, 2010)

> And to Seth, to him also there was born a son; and he called his name Enos: *then began men to call upon the name of the LORD* (Genesis 4:26)



It's just simply saying that Covenant people - in a New Testament context Christians - (it goes without saying true Covenant people/true Christians) - from all nations will be saved.

This has always been the case, but under the Mosaic period, there was a difference between the spiritual privileges a God-fearing Gentile enjoyed and those that Jews or those who became Jews enjoyed. E.g. when they went to the Temple the Gentile God-fearers had to stay behind the "mid wall of partition".



> Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called "the uncircumcision" by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands-- remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace,and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.And he came and preached peace to you who were far off and peace to those who were near. (Ephesians 2:11-17ff., ESV)





> The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord. *And everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved*; for on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there will be deliverance, as the Lord has said, among the survivors whom the Lord calls. (Joel 2:31-32, NIV)



There is no difference between Jewish believers in Jesus and Gentile believers in Jesus in the New Testament period. They are all part of the Israel of God (Galatians 6:16) and have the same access to God.


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## moral necessity (Nov 24, 2010)

fralo4truth said:


> The text reads: "For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved".
> 
> This text has always stumped me somewhat. I have searched for great expositions of this passage, but so far have not found any to my own satisfaction.
> 
> ...


 
The emphasis seems to be on the "whoever", because he just finished saying that "there is no distinction between the Jew and the Greek, for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches to all who call upon Him." And so, "whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." I wouldn't make a theology lesson about the "ordo salutis" out of it, as to the first thing being a cause and the other the effect, but rather a generality, that whoever calls upon God for deliverance will get deliverance. 

As for the confession in verse 10, I think that refers to his faith in Christ's ability and suitableness to deliver, that He is Lord, and has been raised for this very purpose, and is very much accepted by God as a suitable propitiation for his sins. And so, with his heart he trusts in that deliverer, and with the mouth, he confesses and expresses that confidence, by his calling out to Him, and no other, for deliverance. 

That's how I tend to see it.

Blessings!


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## Reformed Roman (Dec 5, 2010)

jambo said:


> I would take this verse in its simplest terms. We know that no one can come to the son unless the father draws him. We know that salvation is all of God and that no one can call upon God without the enabling of the Holy Spirit. Whereas previously God was the God of Israel and the approach was made via the sacrificial system, the temple, the law etc, and even then there were restrictions on none Jews. But now Jew and Gentile can approach God in the same way6 (through Christ) and both can call out to God.
> 
> When a sinner is moved to the edge of repentance he is not interested in the mechanics of it all. He just wants to be forgiven and cries out to God. Likewise when a person is at an end of himself and can do no other but call out to God, he does so and God saves him. The person had no idea the Spirit has been working in him to bring him to that point. He does not realise that divine providence had engineered his circumstances so that he comes to the point he is now at. The conversion of John Bunyan would illustrate this point.
> 
> It might be like asking _when_ are the elect saved? Is it in eternity past when God elected them? At Calvary when Christ actually died for them? Or at the point of conversion? If God has elected a person then that guarantees that Christ will redeem that person and that that person will one day be moved by the Holy Spirit to call out to God to save him.


 
I agree with this. You have to take it not only in the context of the passage but also the whole bible. Because of God's grace (Ephesians 2:8) we call out to the LORD to save us. This calling out is basically at the point of regeneration. It's simultaneous (from what I've seen)


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