# Southeastern or Southwestern



## devonturnbaugh (Oct 13, 2010)

Ok I am a calvinistic Baptist and have ruled out going to southern due to the cost. However the two schools I am looking at are Southeastern and Southwestern Baptist theological seminary. I am having a hard time with this and could use some advice from you guys any help is greatly appreciated.


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## JML (Oct 13, 2010)

Does it have to be a SBC seminary?

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

I know you want to spend less money, but if you spend less money and get an Arminian education, how will that really benefit you? Both of those you listed, along with my alma mater, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, are extremely Arminian.


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## BenjaminBurton (Oct 13, 2010)

Last I checked, Southern wasn't hardly any more expensive than SEBTS or SWBTS. But I do know that SWBTS is the least expensive of the three. If you're looking for calvinistic teaching, SWBTS isn't where you want to be unless you're looking to really strengthen your own understanding through personal study. Southeastern is more accepting but you'll find mostly "4 pointers" there. Just my two cents...


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## puritanpilgrim (Oct 14, 2010)

I think Patterson vowed not to hire any more calvinist profs.


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## jason d (Oct 14, 2010)

We have a couple members from our church that go to SouthWestern and enjoy it... I think of the two it has the best library. And there are Calvinist profs among the school... Also if you are a member of our church your get something like 50% off tuition... so that helps with cost


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## SolaScriptura (Oct 14, 2010)

You, Sir, are incorrect. I just looked. According to their respective websites, tuition at Southern ($209 per hour) is cheaper than either SWBTS ($220) or SEBTS ($229). But good grief.The cost differences in question are insignificant compared with the quality of education you'd receive at these places... so the real question should be where is the best education to be had? Of the choices you've listed, I think anyone who says any school other than Southern is either crazy or stupid or deceitful. 
Another thing to think about... considering that Southern is much closer to MO than either of the outher schools, on top of what you'd already save in tuition by going to SBTS over another school ,you'll also save in travel costs to go home to see family.


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## Ivan (Oct 14, 2010)

There are strengths and weaknesses to all the seminaries mentioned, as is true of any educational institute. As you have seen, Soutern is less expensive and closer to home. If I were a young man headed to seminary, especiallly as a Southern Baptist, I would make a beeline to Southern. I have great respect for Southeastern. It's much more Calvinist-friendly than many can imagine here. Southwestern is not. I still have a fondness for Southwestern. As a Southern Baptist heading to seminary in 1978, Southwestern was about the only choice I had. And even Southwestern had its problem back then. 

Bottom line: Southern. Great faculty, wonderful city, and I love the campus.


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## MarieP (Oct 14, 2010)

SolaScriptura said:


> You, Sir, are incorrect. I just looked. According to their respective websites, tuition at Southern ($209 per hour) is cheaper than either SWBTS ($220) or SEBTS ($229). But good grief.The cost differences in question are insignificant compared with the quality of education you'd receive at these places... so the real question should be where is the best education to be had? Of the choices you've listed, I think anyone who says any school other than Southern is either crazy or stupid or deceitful.
> Another thing to think about... considering that Southern is much closer to MO than either of the outher schools, on top of what you'd already save in tuition by going to SBTS over another school ,you'll also save in travel costs to go home to see family.


 
Cost is living is also a little cheaper here in Louisville.


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## devonturnbaugh (Oct 14, 2010)

Wow, that is why I signed up for PB! Thank you guys so much for all your help. I am having such a hard time figuring out where to go and this has helped considerably. My only issue with Southern (which really is not with the school) is that there housing is more expensive and I am worried about finding a job. So if anyone here has been there or goes there or can put me in contact with someone who goes there that would be able to assist me that would be greatly appreciated. Again, I find so much encouragement in being able to get good counsel from the Body on a resource like PB.


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## T.A.G. (Oct 14, 2010)

No question, I will be helping out a church plant in NY and an evangelism school, so I will have to do Southern via internet and some Jterms but if I wasnt married and doing other things that I believe the Lord has called me to do, it wouldnt even be a question! Southern has the best faculty ever! SouthEastern would be second, a slower but similar reformed reformation is taking place there and it is becoming Southern Jr from what I understand. Having gone to Criswell which is near SouthWestern, please dont go there! Very anti Calvinist and the scholarship there is no on the same level as a Southern or even South Eastern.


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## Damon Rambo (Oct 14, 2010)

John Lanier said:


> Does it have to be a SBC seminary?
> 
> ---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------
> 
> I know you want to spend less money, but if you spend less money and get an Arminian education, how will that really benefit you? Both of those you listed, along with my alma mater, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, are extremely Arminian.


 
Brother,
I do not mean to correct you, but you are VERY wrong about this. Southeastern is not at all Arminian; I have had two different professors from there tell me they are more Calvinist friendly than Southern. They always have a booth up at Together for the Gospel, right along Reformed Theological Seminary, and Southern, and Westminster, recruiting...

Also, I have taken several classes from New Orleans Baptist, and have not found them to be unfriendly to Calvinist Baptists; they do have their share of five pointer professors, one of whom, I believe, posts on this board!


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## Glenn Ferrell (Oct 14, 2010)

If I were Baptist and looking for a seminary, I 'd go to SBTS. Otherwise, consider Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary, even if you are Baptist.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Oct 15, 2010)

I would recommend you attend Southern. Having said that, I believe Southeastern is also a solid school. Their Professor of Theology is John Hammett, a five-point Calvinist. And from the friends I know who have graduated from Southeastern, they tell me the school is definitely friendly toward Calvinist thought rather than antagonistic. I also appreciate their pastoral emphasis.


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## PMBrooks (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes, there is at least one calvinistic prof at NOBTS!

All joking aside, SEBTS is certainly more Calvin friendly than SWBTS, from what I understand from students and other profs. Dallas and the Tri-city area may not have that much of a cost of living difference, so I would not let that be a factor. Choose the seminary based upon the faculty. As always, family and job considerations are factors...and all of these the Lord will give you wisdom concerning them. 

NOBTS is has a few vocals Arminians, but only a few. Besides that, you would find a very welcoming, friendly place in which to prepare for ministry in a city that desperately needs ministry!

Feel free to PM me if you have questions.


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## JML (Oct 16, 2010)

PMBrooks said:


> Yes, there is at least one calvinistic prof at NOBTS!
> 
> All joking aside, SEBTS is certainly more Calvin friendly than SWBTS, from what I understand from students and other profs. Dallas and the Tri-city area may not have that much of a cost of living difference, so I would not let that be a factor. Choose the seminary based upon the faculty. As always, family and job considerations are factors...and all of these the Lord will give you wisdom concerning them.
> 
> ...


 
Good to hear from you again, my friend. I agree that New Orleans is a great city of need.

---------- Post added at 02:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:25 AM ----------




Damon Rambo said:


> Also, I have taken several classes from New Orleans Baptist, and have not found them to be unfriendly to Calvinist Baptists; they do have their share of five pointer professors, one of whom, I believe, posts on this board!


 
I don't know how you do it down there Page.

I too have taken several classes from NOBTS. See my signature. For evidence that NOBTS is not Calvinist friendly, see "John 3:16 Conference." Sponsored by New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary among others.

I do not mean to say that no one at these schools is "Calvinist friendly" but to say that as a majority or whole, they are not. Mr. Brooks was not a prof when I was there. I can't recall anyone teaching Calvinistic doctrines which, it seems from the OP, our friend is looking for a seminary that fits his doctrine.

I hope thinks are going well Mr. Rambo. God bless.


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## Damon Rambo (Oct 16, 2010)

John Lanier said:


> PMBrooks said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, there is at least one calvinistic prof at NOBTS!
> ...


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## devonturnbaugh (Oct 17, 2010)

You said that Souteastern is not at all Arminian, I am really struggling between southern and southeastern and the deciding factor is really based on if I can be taught and grow more fully into understanding Christianity as I see it in the bible through the lens of reformed theology. My wife would like to go to Raleigh( based solely on geographics) and I would like to, I just do not want to not be fed. Please help me.


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## Joseph Scibbe (Oct 17, 2010)

devonturnbaugh said:


> You said that Souteastern is not at all Arminian, I am really struggling between southern and southeastern and the deciding factor is really based on if I can be taught and grow more fully into understanding Christianity as I see it in the *bible through the lens of reformed theology*. My wife would like to go to Raleigh( based solely on geographics) and I would like to, I just do not want to not be fed. Please help me.



Firts, the bold italicised comment worries me. As much as I might agree with reformed theology you should not study the Bible through that lens. You need to, as much as possible, be objective in studying it. Otherwise you will end up thinking "Of course I am right, look everyone else agrees with me!" and you never truly have your ideas tested by other views by wrapping yourself up in Calvinist seminaries. Perhaps it would not be the worst thing to go to a school that didn't agree with you evry step of the way. In all honesty I would suggest Trinity Ev. Div. School. It is a high class seminary with great academics. And if you are worried about calvinists being unwelcom just remember who teaches there....D.A. Carson if you didn't know.


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## devonturnbaugh (Oct 17, 2010)

Unashamed 116 said:


> Firts, the bold italicised comment worries me.



Well, perhaps the way I phased that was not helpful, however what I am trying to get across is I do not want to spend my 4 years defending what I already believe and have spent years cultivating through the reading of the bible and studying of theology. I am in no way wanting to make the point that I only want to go where people agree with me, but I do want to go to a school who embraces the bible as I do so that I can grow and not simply keep pushing back on things I disagree with. And your right you should take the bible on it's own terms, however our theology informs our reading of scripture, and if you don't think it does your not being honest. This is not a topic for this thread however. Although it is a very interesting topic, called TIS. Thank you for the thoughts.


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## Steve Curtis (Oct 17, 2010)

devonturnbaugh said:


> our theology informs our reading of scripture, and if you don't think it does your not being honest.



I would submit that one's theology informs one's _*hermenuetics*_; however, one's theology should be informed _*by*_ Scripture not the other way around.


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## raekwon (Oct 17, 2010)

You're in Missouri. Why not look at Covenant? It's not SBC, but it's close to home and solidly Reformed.


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## devonturnbaugh (Oct 17, 2010)

raekwon said:


> You're in Missouri. Why not look at Covenant? It's not SBC, but it's close to home and solidly Reformed.



I would love to go to covenant, however the cost is twice as much and the cost of living is much higher than in Louisville or in Wake Forest.


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## Notthemama1984 (Oct 17, 2010)

If at all possible, go to Southern. I don't know alot about Southeastern, but Southwestern is anti-Calvinist in alot of ways. Dr. Patterson does not really hold punches back when it comes to Calvinism. I took a semester there thinking I would be ok. I was totally wrong. The school can be so anti-Calvinism that if you were to write a paper on something besides soteriology and just happen to mention the sovereignty of God, you could get hammered for it because they think you are trying to sneak some Calvinism in. This happened to me. I do not know how often that would happen, but it can. 

I can't imagine the same thing happening at Southern with Dr. Mohler at the helm.


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## reaganmarsh (Nov 2, 2010)

I transferred to SBTS from NOBTS (Pensacola extension center) after 3 semesters. I was on campus at SBTS 2006-2008 doing an M.A. in theology.

Steve Lemke (my NOBTS philosophy prof) inspired me to study Calvinism in-depth since he hated it so much. I came to embrace Calvinism as simply being biblical theology, and decided that I could spend the rest of my life trying to figure out the nuances of Scripture stumbling around through my own studies (and basically trying to overcome what I learned in seminary), or I could go somewhere that also believed what I had come to see in Scripture and actually "connect the dots" into a coherent biblical view. The final "cherry on top" was that my final NOBTS prof had done his PhD at SBTS. He grabbed me after class one night and said, "What are you doing at this seminary? Move to Kentucky." Of course, it also helped that a good friend who is a PCA pastor was advising me to do the same thing!

I will warn you, though, that if you go to SBTS, be prepared that many of the churches in the SBC will not consider you as a candidate (at least as a preaching pastor). I was fired from my last pastorate when they rejected Scriptural authority (the flavor of the month was a weird pentecostal/open theism hybrid in that church), and the SBC churches who have responded to my resume invariably send the "Dear Rev." which states, "We don't hire: a. Calvinists, b. men who have been fired for any reason, or c. SBTS graduates." My guess? SBTS has swung between the extreme of liberal theology to the (perceived extreme) of Reformed theology -- so I think that the churches see it as an unstable institution. Again, just my musings on the matter.

I will tell you, however, that I am still an SBTS student (online classes toward an MDiv, School of Theology) and I love studying at SBTS. Take the hardest classes that you can -- there is a tangible difference in the depth you'll attain between there and other SBC seminaries.

No offense intended toward our resident NOBTS prof, so I hope my words are not taken in the wrong way! Hope this helps.


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## BenjaminBurton (Nov 2, 2010)

I chimed in a little earlier in the thread when you first posted but I want to say a little more..

Being in my final year at Boyce (SBTS undergrad - sharing same campus and prof's) I've considered multiple seminary options. All three of the major SBC sem's have been on my radar, all for different reasons. More recently I've narrowed down to staying here at Southern and some other possible routes. I already know I love Louisville, the campus, my church, the community I'm in, and I know the academics will continue to challenge and grow me. Dr. Akin at SEBTS is a wonderful articulator of the gospel and I enjoy hearing any sort of lecture or sermon he may bring when he is in town, though he is not Reformed, just accommodating.

If what you've said is true, looking for great Calvinistic Baptist teaching, then I'm not sure why you're considering an institution that will be more accommodating to your convictional understanding of the Scriptures than affirming. Campus housing is expensive, yes, but there are a multitude of opportunities elsewhere. There are many employment opportunities as well. If you would like more information, feel free to contact me.


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## PMBrooks (Nov 3, 2010)

I am glad we all can help and chime in with our various opinions about seminary. Being an NOBTS prof, I am not offended by support of other seminaries or people telling their experiences. In fact, I have told several prospective students that they might need to go to another seminary if tey are wanting a certain study program or professors.

One of the aspects that your decision about a seminary will be what type of education you want out of your seminary. By this I mean there are several wonderful seminaries where you will receive a great preparation for ministry...all the way from SBC seminaries to PCA seminaries to many others.However, with each seminary, though they may all prepare you well, you are going to receive a certain "type" of education. 

For example, if you come to NOBTS, you will receive a conservative education, but not one that is consistently reformed. NOBTS structures itself on purpose that way because we are an SBC seminary and we have profs representing the several strands of theology in the SBC. If you go to Southern, you will receive a more thoroughly reformed education. If you go to SWBTS, you might receive somewhat of a more anabaptistic education (if I may label it in such a way). 

I don't mean to sound so practical, but in the end the seminary education is what you make of it. I enjoyed my time at NOBTS and enjoyed having different profs from different viewpoints. But, it is up to each individual student to seek guidance and excellence in preparation for ministry. 

I say all this to make the statement that you can trust God on where to lead, but when you arrive, make the most of the time wherever it is that you may be. I hope this helps!


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## TomVols (Nov 21, 2010)

SBTS is your best bet. It's the best combination of education and costs. UPS is a major employer if you want to work outside the school setting, and there are lots of churches who employ students. SEBTS is good with Danny Akin there (very friendly to Reformed folks). SWBTS is a place that I, In my humble opinion, just couldn't attend. The cost of living alone would make me run for the hills (literally). The climate there is not as warm to Calvinism as it is at SBTS and SEBTS. 

If I wasn't choosing one of the Big Six and I was not limited by geography, RTS or WTS would be high on my list, followed closely by Covenant. I have also had friends who had good experiences at Master's Seminary. 

But you won't find a better deal than SBTS for your M.Div work. It won't be cheap, but it will be worth every penny. And it could be a whole lot worse.


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