# Dispensational Premil in Ezek 37?



## Solo Christo (Apr 22, 2005)

I'm looking for some covenantal input on this prophesy:



> 15 The word of the Lord came to me: 16 "œSon of man, take a stick [4] and write on it, "˜For Judah, and the people of Israel associated with him´; then take another stick and write on it, "˜For Joseph (the stick of Ephraim) and all the house of Israel associated with him.´ 17 And join them one to another into one stick, that they may become one in your hand. 18 And when your people say to you, "˜Will you not tell us what you mean by these?´ 19 say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am about to take the stick of Joseph (that is in the hand of Ephraim) and the tribes of Israel associated with him. And I will join with it the stick of Judah, [5] and make them one stick, that they may be one in my hand. 20 When the sticks on which you write are in your hand before their eyes, 21 then say to them, Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I will take the people of Israel from the nations among which they have gone, and will gather them from all around, and bring them to their own land. 22 And I will make them one nation in the land, on the mountains of Israel. And one king shall be king over them all, and they shall be no longer two nations, and no longer divided into two kingdoms. 23 They shall not defile themselves anymore with their idols and their detestable things, or with any of their transgressions. But I will save them from all the backslidings [6] in which they have sinned, and will cleanse them; and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.
> 
> 24 "œMy servant David shall be king over them, and they shall all have one shepherd. They shall walk in my rules and be careful to obey my statutes. 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them. It shall be an everlasting covenant with them. And I will set them in their land [7] and multiply them, and will set my sanctuary in their midst forevermore. 27 My dwelling place shall be with them, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I am the Lord who sanctifies Israel, when my sanctuary is in their midst forevermore." (Ezek 37:15-28)


From what I have experienced there is quite a disagreement on both the object and timing of this prophecy. Many consider this to have been fulfilled in the church. Others claim a dispensational reconciliation. Anyone care to share some thoughts? Any connection with Rom 11?

Thanks

[Edited on 4-22-2005 by Solo Christo]

[Edited on 4-22-2005 by Solo Christo]


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## kevin.carroll (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Solo Christo_
> Any connection with Rom 11?



Yes. Yes, there is.

Dispensationalists insist on a strictly literal interpretation of the Bible. Or at least they claim to. They ignore the fact that the NT both broadens and narrows the definition of Israel.


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## Solo Christo (Apr 22, 2005)

Kevin,

Do you personally find this to promote the historic premil view? I have been amil for quite some time, but this has recently become a challenge in more ways than one.


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## Puritan Sailor (Apr 22, 2005)

If Dipsy it true, and the Jews recent "return" to Palestine is the fulfillment spoken of, then where is the king?


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## kevin.carroll (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Solo Christo_
> Kevin,
> 
> Do you personally find this to promote the historic premil view? I have been amil for quite some time, but this has recently become a challenge in more ways than one.



Hey, Mike.

I appreciate your question. You know, I came out of a dispensational background. I was formally schooled in it. I taught it. I DEFENDED it. It used to be I had a firm (if wrong) grasp on all things eschatalogical...but no longer.

I think I would describe myself as eschatalogically agnostic with strong amill tendencies...but I'm still studying.

To answer your question, I am still open to the idea of pre-millennialism, with the proviso that I no longer see the radical distinction between Israel and the Church that Dispensationalism seems to live and die on.


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## Solo Christo (Apr 22, 2005)

> If Dipsy it true, and the Jews recent "return" to Palestine is the fulfillment spoken of, then where is the king?


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## Solo Christo (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by kevin.carroll_To answer your question, I am still open to the idea of pre-millennialism, with the proviso that I no longer see the radical distinction between Israel and the Church that Dispensationalism seems to live and die on.


I share your sentiments exactly. Many of my amil views are crumbling though.


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## kevin.carroll (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Solo Christo_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by kevin.carroll_To answer your question, I am still open to the idea of pre-millennialism, with the proviso that I no longer see the radical distinction between Israel and the Church that Dispensationalism seems to live and die on.
> ...



You know what? Christ is going to return, just as he said. That's all I really need to know for sure. And it's all I need to preach.


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## Solo Christo (Apr 22, 2005)

There is an interesting piece in the prophesy here...


> 25 They shall dwell in the land that I gave to my servant Jacob, where your fathers lived. They and their children and their children's children shall dwell there forever, and David my servant shall be their prince forever.


This seems to focus exclusively on the earthly kingdom brought forth by Christ after his second coming (at least from the premil view). Should this be taken literally?


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## kevin.carroll (Apr 22, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Solo Christo_
> There is an interesting piece in the prophesy here...
> 
> 
> ...



I guess I would be interested to know what you mean by the word "literal" before I answer.

Food for thought however: Rom 4:13 (in Greek) says that Abraham would be heir of the "world" (though "universe" is a possible translation too). The NT obviously expands the "land" portion of the covenant to refer to much more than Palestine. That would follow, especially with the way the NT expands the idea of "Israel." Is that not "literal?"


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## RamistThomist (Apr 22, 2005)

> Food for thought however: Rom 4:13 (in Greek) says that Abraham would be heir of the "world" (though "universe" is a possible translation too). The NT obviously expands the "land" portion of the covenant to refer to much more than Palestine. That would follow, especially with the way the NT expands the idea of "Israel." Is that not "literal?"



Literal or not, that is a more correct way to interpret it. Iain Murray does a great job in arguing for an inclusion of Israel without going cookoo over the Mid-East.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Apr 23, 2005)

The promised land has been expanded to include all the nations in the NC, and Christ is the antitype of David, as king of God's chosen people, reigning from God's right hand and throne in heaven as our king and mediator.


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