# An Arminian who likes Calvinists...



## J. Dean (Jul 8, 2011)

As some of you know, although I'm quite Reformed, I am also affiliated with a Nazarene church (although I took my Arminian wife and in-laws to the Calvinist church that I go to for Bible study, and they loved it), and as a result, I'm kept abreast of things that are happening in that Arminian denomination-many of which are not good, if you peruse the link I attach below.

However, I thought you'd find this quote from the site operator (a devout Nazarene) very interesting. From THIS SITE:


> reformednazarene, on July 7, 2011 at 7:16 pm said:
> I’m really not a HUGE fan of anyone. My favorite is probably Michael Youssef. Tony Costa preaches some great sermons. There are a lot of really solid preachers still around.
> 
> _*Look, I’m not a Calvinist- but I’d rather hear a John MacArthur preaching on biblical inerrancy, than listen to a dozen Nazarene pastors who DON’T believe in the Bible!*_


That gives you a little idea as to what's going on with Nazarenes. But his quote was an interesting one, and one I wanted to share with everybody here.


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## Fly Caster (Jul 8, 2011)

My Grandfather was an old-timey Methodist preacher. He had no formal training but, my most of his peers, was considered an educated, knowledgeable man. Growing up hearing him and his peers preach, he certainly stood out.

He had a fair-sized library that was chocked-full of older Reformed authors-- much Spurgeon & Pink, Manton, Hodge and early Banner of Truth stuff. I have several of these at home and from his notes and highlighting can tell that they were oft-used. He had suffered a stroke and was unable to speak by the time I became Reformed, but I would love to be able to talk with him about what he saw in these old books.

He bitterly opposed the doctrine of eternal security-- but from what I can remember was due to the abuse of the doctrine by Anti-nomians. I know that he wasn't sound in his doctrine, but I can see how he might have been, in some ways, closer to a Puritan/Reformed understanding of what it means to live the Christian life than many today who claim to hold to 3 or 4 points of Calvinism (although I'm certain he didn't claim to hold to any).


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## Joseph Scibbe (Jul 8, 2011)

Well, I know of some people who don't know that McArthur is Calvinist.


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## HoldFast (Jul 8, 2011)

> reformednazarene, on July 7, 2011 at 7:16 pm said:
> I’m really not a HUGE fan of anyone. My favorite is probably Michael Youssef. Tony Costa preaches some great sermons. There are a lot of really solid preachers still around.
> 
> _*Look, I’m not a Calvinist- but I’d rather hear a John MacArthur preaching on biblical inerrancy, than listen to a dozen Nazarene pastors who DON’T believe in the Bible!*_



So it goes with Liberalism. Ignoring sound doctrine one day...an apostate the next.


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## Skyler (Jul 8, 2011)

Most Arminians like Calvinists.

A lot of them don't realize that the people they're admiring are Calvinists.

How many people realize that Spurgeon was a Calvinist?


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## Rufus (Jul 8, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Most Arminians like Calvinists.
> 
> A lot of them don't realize that the people they're admiring are Calvinists.
> 
> How many people realize that Spurgeon was a Calvinist?



Or Newton.


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## Skyler (Jul 8, 2011)

Rufus said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > Most Arminians like Calvinists.
> ...



Isaac Newton was a Calvinist? 

But yeah, there are a lot of examples. William Carey, a lot of people overlook him (especially those who say Calvinism kills missions).


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## Rufus (Jul 8, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > Skyler said:
> ...



John Newton . Isaac Newton was devout but may have been anti-trinitarian. 

Whitefield maybe?


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## elnwood (Jul 8, 2011)

My Greek professor was a Nazarene pastor. Wonderful fellow, faithful minister, passionate teacher, and loved the Word of God, and believed in its inerrancy. The Nazarenes are still by and large conservative, although liberalism is creeping in.


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## PointingToChrist (Jul 8, 2011)

I don't know much about John MacArthur, but I thought he was dispensational (or at least the notes on the end times in his study bible seemed that way). Can someone clarify his stances?


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## Andres (Jul 8, 2011)

PointingToChrist said:


> I don't know much about John MacArthur, but I thought he was dispensational (or at least the notes on the end times in his study bible seemed that way). Can someone clarify his stances?



Yes, he's dispensational however he would clarify that he isn't completely dispensational in the traditional sense of Scofield. MacArthur usually refers to himself as a "leaky" dispensationalist. To be honest, I'm not sure what that means.


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## Skyler (Jul 8, 2011)

Rufus said:


> Isaac Newton was devout but may have been anti-trinitarian.



Ditto for Isaac Watts. Or so I've heard.


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## Herald (Jul 8, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Most Arminians like Calvinists.
> 
> A lot of them don't realize that the people they're admiring are Calvinists.
> 
> How many people realize that Spurgeon was a Calvinist?


 
I've had some people claim that Spuegeon refuted Calvinism and any claim that he was a Calvinist was nothing less than a lie. The same people said he was not the author of those writings attributed to him that purport Calvinism. 

sent from my most excellent Motorola Atrix.


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## Rufus (Jul 8, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Rufus said:
> 
> 
> > Isaac Newton was devout but may have been anti-trinitarian.
> ...



I hope not, I like Isaac Watts, I also like Isaac Newton, but for completely different reasons.


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## J. Dean (Jul 8, 2011)

elnwood said:


> My Greek professor was a Nazarene pastor. Wonderful fellow, faithful minister, passionate teacher, and loved the Word of God, and believed in its inerrancy. The Nazarenes are still by and large conservative, although liberalism is creeping in.


The worst part about it is that the liberalism that has made its way into the denomination is couched so well with evangelical rhetoric that it's hard to pick out. Either that, or it uses emotional heart tugging methods to blunt any critical response.


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## BenjaminBurton (Jul 8, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Most Arminians like Calvinists.
> 
> A lot of them don't realize that the people they're admiring are Calvinists.
> 
> How many people realize that Spurgeon was a Calvinist?



Many who like Spurgeon don't realize that he was a Calvinist because they don't see him as fitting into the mold they think Calvinism is (that is, hyper-Calvinism). There's a small Bible college in Tennessee that is adamantly against Calvinism but have a huge section in their library devoted to him.


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## J Miles (Jul 8, 2011)

BenjaminBurton said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > Most Arminians like Calvinists.
> ...



That's because Calvinism is more than just five points in a easy to remember layout. A lot of people do not realize this, and end up judging us by such things as hyper-calvinism.


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## MarieP (Jul 9, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Isaac Newton was a Calvinist?



Jonathan Aitken, when he told someone he was writing a book on Newton, was asked "But are you sure you can handle his physics and mathematics?"


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## Pilgrim (Jul 9, 2011)

Andres said:


> PointingToChrist said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know much about John MacArthur, but I thought he was dispensational (or at least the notes on the end times in his study bible seemed that way). Can someone clarify his stances?
> ...



I think it basically means that he doesn't emphasize things like Scofield's seven dispensations and that he didn't buy into some of the more idiosyncratic teaching of some of the Dallas Seminary leaders. This would include their views on sanctification and "free grace" teaching in particular, which some of them see as the "dispensational view" because that's what Chafer taught. From his point of view, dispensationalism only impacts ecclesiology and eschatology. When the Lordship controversy erupted in the 1980's, he was accused by his opponents of basically abandoning dispensationalism, largely due to the mentality I describe above. I think the "leaky" comment may have been made after that. 

Someone on here said by "leaky" he meant progressive dispensationalist, but he seems to be a bit more old school than some of the progressives like Bock.


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