# fleeing PC(USA) churches



## Calvinbeza (Mar 22, 2015)

Are there some former PC(USA) churches that joined the Presbyterian Church in America(PCA) instead of ECO or EPC. Which are these? Do you know any?


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## joebonni63 (Mar 22, 2015)

thank god amen


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## Wayne (Mar 22, 2015)

The web site of the renewal group, Layman.org is probably the best place to find out about such things.

Most of the churches that have left the PC(USA) have gone to the EPC or the more recently formed ECO. Only a relative few have gone to the PCA. 

21 left in 2011, 110 in 2012, and 148 in 2013. Overall, the PC(USA) lost more than 102,000 members just in 2012 alone. "The PC(USA) now reports 1.84 million members, less than half of its peak membership of 4.25 million members in 1965 and down from 1.95 million members in 2011." [as per a 9/20/13 report]

From that web site:

An Excel worksheet showing churches leaving the PC(USA):
Churches leaving the PCUSA - The Layman Online
[NOTE: I don't see that this is currently a working link. When it was working, it provided a fairly comprehensive overview of all the churches that have left in the last several years.]

Door may be closing for churches seeking dismissal:
Door may be closing for churches seeking dismissal from PCUSA - The Layman Online

Differences between the PCA and the PC(USA):
https://biblebased.wordpress.com/2013/04/16/13-differences-between-the-pca-and-the-pcusa/

Comparison of PC(USA), ECO, and EPC:
http://www.layman.org/wp-content/up...iefs-and-viewpoints-PCUSA-ECO-EPC-updated.pdf


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## arapahoepark (Mar 22, 2015)

Wayne said:


> The web site of the renewal group, Layman.org is probably the best place to find out about such things.
> 
> Most of the churches that have left the PC(USA) have gone to the EPC or the more recently formed ECO. Only a relative few have gone to the PCA.
> 
> ...


May I ask which churches went to the PCA? I would think even they would be too conservative for them. Was their suspicion when they asked to join the denomination?


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## Wayne (Mar 22, 2015)

Technically, twenty-three churches have left the PC(USA) for the PCA, though only three of those in this most recent exodus. The others were all prior to 1996.

The three recent are:

Iglesia PC, Brownsville, TX, received into the PCA on 04/29/06
Hospers PC, Hospers, IA, 11/12/06
Riverside PC, Linn Grove, IA, 08/24/06


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 22, 2015)

Wayne; Did any female officers resign? Or how was that handled? If you know.


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## Edward (Mar 22, 2015)

Calvinbeza said:


> Are there some former PC(USA) churches that joined the Presbyterian Church in America(PCA) instead of ECO or EPC. Which are these? Do you know any?



Date ranges are important in addressing this question. Generally, the departures can be split into three tranches: 1984-1992; 1992-2008, and 2008-present. 

During the Article 13 period (roughly 1984-1992) applying only to the former PCUS churches, the departing churches were split largely between the PCA and the EPC. As the PCUSA continued its descent into apostasy, the churches in the second wave were weighted more heavily in favor of the EPC; in the last round, the weight shifted from the EPC to ECO. (First Presbyterian Orlando was the last major shift to the EPC that I recall). 

The number of congregations also only tells part of the story. Number of congregants is also important. In some cases churches split when they couldn't leave, so numbers were reduced even if congregations weren't; in addition, the departure of a huge church will have a disproportionate impact on both number of members and dollars. 

This story makes interesting reading: Presbyterian sheep shifting; as the lost remain lost - The Layman Online


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## Wayne (Mar 22, 2015)

Chris: I don't have any specifics, though I seem to remember hearing of some who even gladly stepped down.


Here is the way the arrivals have fallen out for the PCA. The Article 13 group seems best defined, insofar as churches coming into the PCA. 

As per Edward's outline, the last five of this list would be part of the same middle group, 1992-2008, in which case it is interesting to see how they bookend that period, fore and aft.

*1982-1991*

Grace PC, Peoria, IL, 05/23/82
Castanea PC, Stanley, NC, 01/22/84
Liberty Springs PC, Cross Hill, SC, 03/16/85
New Augusta PC, New Augusta, MS, 05/10/88
Presbyterian Church of the Covenant, Houston, TX, 10/29/88
Evangel PC, Wichita, KS, 04/02/89
Lookout Valley PC Chattanooga, TN, 07/09/89
Andrews PC, Andrews, NC, 08/17/89
Monroeville PC, Monroeville, AL, 03/06/90
Alta Vista PC, Sweetwater, TN, 10/28/90
Ingleside PC, Lawrenceville, GA, 12/09/90
First PC, Brewton, AL, 02/28/91
First PC, Villa Rica, GA, 04/28/91
South Liberty PC, Sharon, GA, 05/05/91
Crawfordville PC, Crawfordville, GA 07/20/91
Park Cities PC, Dallas, TX, 10/25/91
Grace PC, Pardeeville, WI, 11/21/91

*1993-1995*

Norman PC, Norman, NC, 04/24/93
Winifrede PC, Winifrede, WV, 07/15/95

*2006-present.*

Iglesia PC, Brownsville, TX, 04/29/06
Riverside PC, Linn Grove, IA, 08/24/06
Hospers PC, Hospers, IA, 11/12/06

*Date not provided in the record:*

First PC, Unionville, NY,


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 23, 2015)

I know that First PC, Unionville NY joined around 2013 or 2014. My friend send my a privat email , and he wrote that Unity Presbyterian Church in Weogufka, AL and Southwood Presbyterian Church in Talladega AL joined 2014 leaving the Presbytery of Sheppard and Lapsley PC(USA). Also seceder groups from Beaufort SC formed First Scots PCA. In 2006 First Presbyterian Church in Charleston, MS joined PCA as a whole congregation. As well as J.J White Memeorial PC(USA) suffered schism the seceder group formed New Covenant PCA in Summit MS
Just in case you are still interested in the topic.

How did Hospers PC joined PCA?


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 23, 2015)

Do you know any more churches or seceder group that found their home in the PCA in the third tranche from 2000 to 2015?
Please send me a mail.


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## Wayne (Mar 23, 2015)

Calvinbeza:

Thank you for that information. I will follow up on it. 

Regrettably, I don't have specifics on Hospers, just the date of reception.

My information was drawn solely from the PCA Yearbooks, which like anything else, are not always perfect and which don't give the full backstory.

Interesting regarding First/Charleston. The PCA Yearbook indicates that church came into the PCA from independency on 06/21/04.

Those churches joining in 2014 would not be in my database yet, since the 2015 Yearbook isn't out yet.


Lastly, as a new member of the Puritan Board, you need to take care of providing a signature block, so we'll know who we're conversing with. See the link below under my name for instructions.


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## Wayne (Mar 23, 2015)

A bit more on Union PC in Weogufka, AL:

http://www.pcaac.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Overture-28-Evangel-transfer-Coosa-County.pdf


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## Edward (Mar 23, 2015)

Wayne said:


> Park Cities PC, Dallas, TX, 10/25/91



That's a unique situation, and probably needs a * next to it. It was a portion of the unsuccessful majority that tried to bring Highland Park Presbyterian out of the PCUSA in 1991. About 1500 people began meeting in June, 1991 and originally organized as an independent church with the intention of joining the PCA, and it was received into North Texas Presbytery on the October date. 

While it had women who had served as officers at Highland Park, it didn't have to deal with that issue, as Park Cities never had women officers. Highland Park did eventually end up in ECO.


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## Jake (Mar 23, 2015)

One of those churches listed which went to the PCA is now in the EPC. I wonder if that's happened with any others.


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 23, 2015)

Is this list(Mr Wayne's 1982-1991) complete? So few churches? I believed former southern Presbyterian Churches joined the PCA till early 1990s.


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## Wayne (Mar 23, 2015)

No, that's not a complete list, in that sense. I just looked for those labeled PC(USA) in the Yearbooks.


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## Edward (Mar 23, 2015)

Jake said:


> One of those churches listed which went to the PCA is now in the EPC. I wonder if that's happened with any others.


 Can't find its history tonight, but I think Cedar Springs Knoxville came out of the PCUS to the PCA before moving on to the EPC.


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 23, 2015)

Cedar Springs Presbyterian Church went to the EPC, but about 10-20% of the congregation decided to stay with PCA and formed a PCA church in Knoxville. But there are former EPC churches in the PCA too. Knox Presbyterian Church in Harrison Township, MI was a founding member of the EPC, in November 2011 become member of the Great Lakes Presbytery PCA. Tullian Tchividijan EPC church merged with Coral Ridge EPC. The State Collage PCA was a former EPC church.


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## Contra_Mundum (Mar 24, 2015)

Since 1936, I don't believe a single mainline church has ever joined the OPC.

"You can't split rotten wood." B.B. Warfield on his deadbed, to J.G. Machen.


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 24, 2015)

I think former PC(USA) seceder churches shifting to ECO, wich is more liberal, similar to PC(USA) except the marriage and homosexuality case. The growth of EPC slowed down, down, since ECO formed.

But PCA is plating new churches, and PCA growth is from EVANGELISM since 1990s, I might wonder if the growth of ECO and EPC would countinue, when there will be no former PC(USA) churches to join them. What will be soon, I think.


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## Edward (Mar 24, 2015)

Calvinbeza said:


> But PCA is plating new churches, and PCA growth



The PCA has largely plateaued in membership. All it took was the purging of the rolls at a couple of the biggest churches in the denomination to offset growth over a several year period. Of course, the total numbers have to be taken with more than a grain of salt, since a number of small churches, for good or bad reasons, don't report their numbers. 

What will be interesting is whether some of the EPC churches move to ECO, or whether the EPC can make the deal on women preachers hold together. 

I'd be happy if about 10% of the PCA would go to the EPC - we saw some churches up in New York do that, and hopefully they can proselytize others with similar views.


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 24, 2015)

I think the EPC is not a good option for confessional Reformed and Presbyterian Churches. The EPC accepts, tolerates the charismatics in ints ranks.A lot of EPC churches are unhappy about the theology of Ward EPC in Detroit MI. 

In the EPC there will be far more problems than in the PCA. In the EPC there are many different churches, many different backgrounds, very conservative, almost liberal church wich joust seceded from PC(USA). Charismatics


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 24, 2015)

So I mean that the EPC is coposed of many many different groups, as well as quiet different theologies.


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## Jake (Mar 24, 2015)

Contra_Mundum said:


> Since 1936, I don't believe a single mainline church has ever joined the OPC.
> 
> "You can't split rotten wood." B.B. Warfield on his deadbed, to J.G. Machen.



Well many CRC churches have gone to the OPC, and the CRC, especially with talks to unite with the RCA, is getting closer to the mainline these days.


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## Calvinbeza (Mar 24, 2015)

Many CRC churches joined OPC? I don't think so. I think just a few.The majority joined United Reformed Churches. 1-2 churches joined PCA, klike Monsey Church in NY.


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## NaphtaliPress (Mar 24, 2015)

Thread taking a break. Calvinbeza, please fix your signature.


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