# Conditions for Revival?



## natewood3 (Aug 30, 2006)

Any there any conditions for revival? Are there things which must precede revival, or things that normally do precede revival? Are there any Biblical example of conditions of revival? Are there things we can urge our churches to do in order bring about revival, even though revival is a sovereign act of God?


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## rjlynam (Aug 30, 2006)

I believe it's safe to say that repentance precedes revival. King David in Psalm 51. The Book of Acts. And repentance is a work of grace effected by the Holy Spirit, whereby the sinner is convinced of his sinfulness and turns away from it with commitment to new obedience to God.


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## jaybird0827 (Aug 30, 2006)

The church doesn't need revival.

The church needs *reformation*.

Reactions: Sad 1


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Aug 30, 2006)

For the revival/reformation question answered, see this sermon:

True Biblical Reformation, 2 Kings 22:1-23:25
by Dr. C. Matthew McMahon
http://www.christcovenantrpc.org/AudioSermons.htm


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## natewood3 (Aug 30, 2006)

I agree the church needs reformation, but I simply asked are there conditions that must be fulfilled before revival can take place. Just because we need reformation, that does not disallow the welcoming of revivals. Just because the church as a whole needs reformation, it does not preclude there being churches that truly are worshipping God as closely to the Scriptures as they know how. However, my question was simply directed toward revival. Is it possible that a revival might lead to a reformation?


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## rjlynam (Aug 30, 2006)

Not attempting to browbeat here, but your original post contained several questions. Let me attempt to respond simply to the question you posed in your last post.

Question: Is it possible that a revival might lead to a reformation?

Now for a good reformed answer: "That depends" 

Let's assume that what you refer to as a revival is a "quickening" (as in Ephesians 2) of a population group (church, community, country, etc.). I believe in this case the answer to your question is "yes". Quickened (revived) individuals now become reformed. The old ways of the sinful man will be repented of, and a new obedience to God's revealed will will be evidented in his life. Reformation is an unavoidable outcome.

If you're referring to revival as a planned event that we'll have at our church each third Saturday afternoon under the tent, then I think the answer is far less clear. It would depend on whether or not the Spirit of God is at work among the participants (John 3:8). We do, however, have the confidence of God's Word (Isaiah 55:11) regarding the preaching of the Word. 

I've always been of the opinion that you cannot plan revival. We need to be preaching God's Word to the world on a daily basis through witnessing to the saving power of Jesus Christ in words and deeds. 

Hope I didn't muddy this up to much, and I'm certainly open to the ideas and opinions of others, just be prepared to support them biblically.


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## natewood3 (Aug 31, 2006)

For clarification, I was using "revival" as Iain Murray or other Reformed people would use it, not for a meeting.


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## R. Scott Clark (Aug 31, 2006)

For what it's worth, some of us are convinced that "revival," even as defined by Iain Murray, or the doctor himself or J I Packer is not a very helpful category. 

It's not an obviously Biblical cateogry. It's not an obviously confessional category. 

It's an 18th century category that has more to do with Cambridge neo-Platonism and precursors of Romanticism than it has to do with Reformed theology.

There's no question that Reformed theology, piety, and practice has always had an interest in sanctification and "renewal" or "renovation," as these were considered the "second benefit" (not second blessing) of the covenant of grace flowing from the "first benefit," justification.

Renewal, however, is conformity to the image of God in Christ and not some extraordinary outbreak of religious enthusiasm or affections. 

16th and 17th century language about renewal and sanctity should not be read anachronistically using 18th or 19th century notions or categories.

rsc



> _Originally posted by natewood3_
> For clarification, I was using "revival" as Iain Murray or other Reformed people would use it, not for a meeting.


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## natewood3 (Sep 2, 2006)

Dr. Clark,

I would probably agree with you. I do not suppose you find a "revival" in the NT. What terminology would you use to describe the Great Awakenings and surrounding "revivals"?

Would there be a biblical or confessional category for "Reformation"?


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## BaptistCanuk (Sep 2, 2006)

Personal revival is what really matters. When many people experience a revival, it will naturally affect the church. 

Unfortunately, the church in the end times will go through a spiritual "slim fast" diet and really thin out. Only the true remnant will remain, as there won't be a revival.


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## Jie-Huli (Sep 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by natewood3_
> Any there any conditions for revival? Are there things which must precede revival, or things that normally do precede revival? Are there any Biblical example of conditions of revival? Are there things we can urge our churches to do in order bring about revival, even though revival is a sovereign act of God?



While not wishing to deny the responses of others above, many of which I think we would all agree with, I think it should be emphasised that all Christians should indeed fervently desire to see revival in our churches and in our lands. And so your question concering conditions for revival is an apt one.

We need not associate the term "revival" with all of the foolish and unbiblical things connected with that name in the last two centuries. Revival simply refers to a time in which the Spirit of God does a special arresting work in the hearts of many people in a particular place, resulting in an unusually large number of conversions, as well as a special sense of the presence of God and a desire for holiness among God's people. 

My pastor (Dr. Peter Masters) spoke on exactly this topic in a seminary lecture, and he offered some sound counsel which helps shed light on this topic.

1) Revival is a difference in scale, not a difference in kind. The things that take place during revival (particularly true gospel evangelism and the response of sinners to this evangelism) are in line with what takes place during the "ordinary" times as well. Revival does not involve any sort of novel or unusual programmes, but involves extraordinary fervency among the people of God for, and an extraordinary response from lost sinners to, the Biblically-mandated work of the church in evangelising the lost and instructing people in the ways of holiness.

2) It follows, therefore, that hope for revival does not preclude the ordinary work of the church, and does not bypass the instrumentality of God's people. Although a true revival is first and foremost a work of the Spirit of God, just as in conversion God still sees fit to use His people as instruments in this work, and so our work, by the grace of God, is essential. While some people use waiting for revival as an excuse for being overly passive and neglecting fervent work in times of general decline, this is very far from Biblical teaching and from the historical example of times of extraordinary blessing in ages past. Far from precluding the ordinary work of the church, revival calls for an extraordinary amount of work from God's people, it is indeed very taxing on the people of God. During times of great blessing in the Puritan era, for example, most preachers were preaching 12-15 times a week and had gruelling travel schedules. Revivals are never a passive affair. And one of the great features of the Puritan era was exceedingly fervent gospel evangelism.

3) In terms of conditions for revival, therefore, the above considerations furnish us with a number of important points in terms of what God's people can do to prepare:

(a) We must pray continually with sincere desire to see revival come to the land, and shape our lives and work accordingly so that we will be ready for it should the Lord be so pleased as to bring it.

(b) Believers must abandon worldliness and improper worldly pursuits, that our churches may be truly sanctified bodies fit for the Master's use, and we must prepare ourselves for the work and the sacrifices that go along with revival. If someone says he desires revival but is put off by calls for greater personal fervency and holiness, is unwilling to pursue greater separation from the world, and is unwilling to sacrifice time, energy and worldly advance for the sake of the advance of God's kingdom, his desire for revival is certainly not true.

(c) Churches must give special attention to true evangelistic gospel preaching, that is, regular gospel messages particularly designed to convict lost sinners of the woeful estate, explain to them the way of salvation, and earnestly plead with them to come to Christ. If churches are not doing this, there is surely no grounding for revival . . . even if lost people did start coming into the churches in extraordinary numbers, would the churches be ready to minister to them? Surely the groundwork must be ready in place always in true Biblical churches, and the neglect of this is surely a sign of decline.

(d) There must be a heart for fervent witness among the church as a body, with great numbers of church members being devoted to regular evangelistic activities.

I take for granted that of course true revival will also be passionately devoted to upholding purity of doctrine, so reformation is certainly connected with revival. But revival, in the sense of great numbers of people being saved, is an important topic of its own right, and worthy of our most careful attention.

Would our reformed churches truly be ready for a revival now? It is an important question.


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## R. Scott Clark (Sep 2, 2006)

Nate,

There are periods of religious enthusiasm. I call the whole movement (the 1GA and 2GA and the desire to repeat one or both) The Quest for Illegitimate Religious Experience (QIRE). It is the twin sister of QIRC - the Quest for Illegitimate Religious Certainty. 

As for "Reformation," it isn't an obviously biblical category -- it is anachronistic to read it or "revival" back into Acts -- but it is a part of our theological and confessional vocabulary. We were intentional about Reforming the church and preserving the Reformation in the 16th and 17th centuries. 

The word "reformation" is used as a synonym for sanctification in the Canons and in the WLC. The Second Helvetic ch. 1 and ch. 17 speaks of the "reformation of the church."

rsc



> _Originally posted by natewood3_
> Dr. Clark,
> 
> I would probably agree with you. I do not suppose you find a "revival" in the NT. What terminology would you use to describe the Great Awakenings and surrounding "revivals"?
> ...


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## ef (Sep 4, 2006)

Another good question to accompany this one might be asked of those in today's New England... "What are the benefits of revival?" 

The obsession on the part of well intentioned itinerate preachers to repeat the Great Awakenings has been attributed to the sad state of that area's churches.


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## Michael Butterfield (Sep 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> The church doesn't need revival.
> 
> The church needs *reformation*.



Well, between your reply and Dr. Clark's I do not know who should get the change. Maybe a penny to each. :bigsmile:


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## Puritanhead (Sep 5, 2006)




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## jaybird0827 (Sep 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Michael Butterfield_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by jaybird0827_
> ...



 Makes cents to me.


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## BaptistCanuk (Sep 5, 2006)

> _Originally posted by ef_
> Another good question to accompany this one might be asked of those in today's New England... "What are the benefits of revival?"
> 
> The obsession on the part of well intentioned itinerate preachers to repeat the Great Awakenings has been attributed to the sad state of that area's churches.



Eric, I hadn't heard of this. What is going on there?


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## BaptistCanuk (Sep 5, 2006)

Have most "revivals" come about due to persecution or resulted in persecution? If this is the case, then the Church had better be ready for it if indeed, it wants revival. 

The same would go for unity. There usually is not unity among believers until there is persecution. That is when people stop arguing about when to be baptized and join forces together to preach the Gospel and try to stay alive. Different topic though, sorry.

[Edited on 9-5-2006 by BaptistCanuk]


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