# On Female Beauty



## greenbaggins (Jan 3, 2008)

One of the things that distresses me most about modern culture is that there is a fake standard of beauty to which no woman can possibly attain. All you have to do is look at a few interviews with (even) supermodels, and they will tend to express dissatisfaction with their looks at some point. The only way to describe society's standards of beauty is to take the measurements of one woman, the face of another woman, etc., until you have the complete picture. Needless to say, no woman has all of this, and it is grossly unfair to women to expect them to attain to this nonexistent standard. 

The effect such a standard has on men is evident from rampant p0rnography problems even in the church. Men are no longer satisfied with their wives, since their wives are (mentally) being made to conform to some _outside_ standard of beauty. 

The effect on women is that they become profoundly dissatisfied with their own looks, they become wildly insecure with regard to their husband's affections, and they push themselves to dangerous measures in order to obtain "that look." 

The pressure to conform mentally to this standard is immense. We are bombarded with it every day. I would suggest that a biblical approach is needed here. 

Men, each man's wife need to be the standard of beauty to her husband, _to which standard all other women fall short_. Whether this takes an act of the will or not doesn't matter here. Proverbs 5:15-19 is a pointer in this direction, certainly. Furthermore, men, you need to say this _often_ to your wife. Women have notoriously short memories when it comes to whether or not their husbands have said that they love them. ;-) Men, it is your responsibility to let your wives know that you think she is the most beautiful creature on the planet. Period. 

Women, instead of seeking to conform yourself to a non-biblical standard, work hardest on that inner beauty of which 1 Peter 3 and 1 Timothy 2 speak. Secondly, with regard to your outer beauty, do not feel that you have to conform to the world's standard of beauty. And, in turn, admire your husbands. Just as much as you love to hear from your husband that you are beautiful, so also does your husband's fragile ego need to hear that you admire his sterling qualities.


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## BobVigneault (Jan 3, 2008)

Great post pastor.

There was a Twilight Zone marathon on New Year's day. I recorded about 30 episodes. They are so refreshing in that they would take one of our inner vices and exaggerate them to proportions where we could see the vanity of vice.

There were two that I had my 13 year old daughter watch. One was of an abominably ugly woman who had bandages on her face and physicians had tried to change her bone structure so that she could fit into society. Of course, the surgeries failed. When they took the bandages off we saw that she was extremely beautiful and the doctors and nurses, who had been in shadows, were grotesque. She was put away with other 'freaks' like herself. It was a great lesson in the amorphous, changing standards of physical beauty.

There second was about society in the future (the year 2000) where at a certain age a person chose from a set group of models their looks and body because everyone had to be beautiful. It was great, this girls dad, uncle and two of her doctors were based on model #17, the most popular male model. They all looked alike. Her mom, was #12. The girl didn't want to be like everyone else, she wanted to be plain. She was considered unstable for not wanting to be beautiful and later was forced into 'the transformation' and she became a blond bimbo just like her sister.

I've been in printing and image manipulation for many years now. I have explained over and over to my daughters that the beautiful girls in the pictures don't exist - they are airbrushed, distorted, cloned ideals of marketers.

The pressure is amazing on our wives and daughters. To make matters worse, kids are now wanting to grow up to be famous as if fame is the chief virtue to strive for. Parenting is not an easy task when every biblical value, principle and virtue is being over turned by the culture. I feel like we are in the Twilight Zone.


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## AV1611 (Jan 3, 2008)

And if I may add; we "younger" men need to ensure that our priorities are not the World's and that we do not act, be it in thought, word or deed, in such a way that says to women that their value corresponds with how they appear. We need to make sure that women understand that our standards are those of God and that if women want to be beautiful in our eyes then they ought adorn themselves with the beauty of holiness and encourage them to do so.


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## BJClark (Jan 3, 2008)

This is one of the most difficult things to teach children, boys and girls alike. I've tried to stress to my own children God has created each of us to look the way we do.

He brought people together from very different countries around the world to meet, marry and come together just to create them in the unique fashion He wants them to be. had anyone of them stayed in their homelands they never would have met or married the person they did..and none of us would exist. 

So that we exist at all is God's providence and will, the way we look is the way God ordained it from before the world was ever created, and that God cared enough to ensure all of those things took place at just the right time in history to create THEM just the way are..tell's them how much they are loved by Our creator. And that is what is important, not what anyone else wants to think or believe about their looks. And God will bring just the right person for them in the future to create any children He desires them to have, and they too will look just the way God desires them to look. 

And when we complain about our looks we are in essence telling God "He made a mistake in how HE created us in the Image He designed" which is a lie, in that when God created the world He looked out and said "It is very good."

And the sad thing is, it took me many years to get to this point where I believe it, as I was always complaining against How God created me..based on man's comments about my looks..

But I notice my kids sometimes make comments like "you only say that because your my mom, and your supposed to say things like that." I tell them "No, I say it because it's TRUE, I used to struggle the way you do, but have come to see myself as God's creation
forming me just the way HE wanted me to look to bring Himself glory and the lengths He went through placing people in the right place just so that *I* and then *You* would be born at all."


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## moral necessity (Jan 3, 2008)

Agreeing with everything so far, I also think we ought to avoid the danger of swinging the pendulum too far in the opposite direction (not that we were), to where a certain external beauty is not valued much at all. As you well agree, God took great care and delight in adorning the flowers and leaves and trees with visual appeal, as he does with all of his creation in their own and unique way. He is the greatest perfectionist! And, I think women ought not to purposefully or negligently stumble in the other direction, to where they stifle and suppress their gift of visual attractiveness that God has given them, nor do I think they ought to distort it to fit some superficial, worldly paradigm of any age or culture. I think it is okay to attend to external beauty, as well as internal beauty, and the former ought to be delicately and appropriately taught to daughters by their mothers and fathers, and the latter ought to be highly emphasized.

Excellent post!

Blessings to you today!


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## A5pointer (Jan 3, 2008)

Preference toward physical beauty seems to be wrong yet so natural. I cosider it a consequence of the fall into sin.


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## Bladestunner316 (Jan 3, 2008)

One thing I most defintely struggle with is the fleshly battle between finding a Godly woman vs. a Wordly woman. At this point I dont think I'm ready to engage in a relationship. Lord Willing I pray I abstain when tempted to enter a bad one. 

Thanks for the post!


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## Zenas (Jan 3, 2008)

Proverbs 31:30

"Charm is deceitful, and beauty is vain, but a woman who fears the LORD is to be praised."


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## DMcFadden (Jan 3, 2008)

As one of the old guys here (54), I can testify to what you have all said (Lane, that was a powerful post, brother). The pressure of the culture is enormous. 

My older daughter is both very smart and a "drop dead" beautiful woman (outwardly _and_ in terms of Godly character) who made it through college and seminary summa cum laude in 4.5 yrs. Yet, despite my best efforts, she always felt inadequate about her looks and complained about this or that part of her body. Now she is married to a man who adores her and regularly affirms her. Her high school students also appreciate her. But, that external beauty will change over time. She will age and wrinkle. Over time, it will be her inner beauty that will illuminate and radiate through her body. 

It is also interesting how fickle standards of beauty are during different ages. Once the Rubenesque figure with its ample flesh was viewed as more to be desired than the bony, skinny look. During the Twiggy era in the 60s, we had anorexic ideals for models. Cheryl Teague returned us to the more voluptuous standard. 

I always cautioned my sons to relativize the importance of the external appearance and to focus on Godly character. A few pounds here or there, a few wrinkles, whatever. The body *will *change; fall in love with the women who has Godly character and you will be satisfied for a lifetime.

I know a man who was addicted to p*** as an adolescent. He chased after a proverbial hourglass figured woman who reminded him of the girls in the magazines. After their first child, she put on more than 80 lbs. she did not lose. From voluptuous she went to slovenly. Programmed with wrong views of beauty, he kept chasing after conventional ideals of beauty. It led to affairs, a loss of ministry, and dissatisfaction in his marriage. No thanks! Truly love the one you're with and you will be satisfied for a lifetime; focus on shifting worldly cultural standards of beauty and you may be miserable beyond all measure.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 3, 2008)

> Men, it is your responsibility to let your wives know that you think she is the most beautiful creature on the planet. Period.



Well Solomon certainly thought so; as far as I am concerned, if a woman is not the most beautiful woman in the world _in your eyes_ then don't marry her.


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## DMcFadden (Jan 3, 2008)

One last pointer for you young guys: I minister in a retirement center with 350 senior saints. The ones with inner beauty are wonderously attractive well into their 80s. It doesn't matter whether they are slender or full bodied, tall or short, blond or brunette (hey, most of them are gray by this point). They light up the room when they enter. And, yes, they are still "sexy" (whatever that means) and appealing to the opposite sex. People are drawn to them and want to spend time with them. When their husbands pass away, all of the single guys (few that they may be) flock to them. The former beauty queens who lack Godly graces age like old prunes. They look dull and unattractive and are most unpleasant to be around.

I recognize that this is anecdotal and unscientific, but I know a little bit about the use of little blue pills by some of the males in the senior set. It would seem to me that those women who may not have been the most culturally beautiful during their younger years, but who cultivated Godly character and graces, are often married to men most interested in continuing to enjoy God's gift of marital intimacy into their 80s. Bottom line: select on the basis of "looks" and you may find your interest declining over years as physical changes come. Make your choice based on Godly values and you will find that your marriage deepens and ripens over the years, well into retirement.


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## SRoper (Jan 12, 2008)

I do think that God intended to make man diverse and that we tend to have way too narrow a standard of beauty. However, I can't agree with everything posted in this thread. Some posts, Bobbi's in particular, seem to forget the reality of the Fall and the effects of disease, deformity, death, and decay on beauty. To say that we are all beautiful because God in his providence made us the way we are seems to me to be fatalistic. We don't say that we are all healthy because God made in his providence made us the way we are, so why should we say that about beauty? I believe there is a sense that we can wish that our bodies were not marred by the Fall, and we can look forward to the return of Christ and the restoration of all things.


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## Quickened (Jan 12, 2008)

That opening post was a good one. It reminds me of the situation I am in. I learned something of this nature early on luckily (i am only 25). My finacee needs to hear things like this. Not only is she a beautiful woman she is very smart. Unfortunately her mother tends to belittle her about her weight and chimes in with remarks every time she eats.

Boys let me be the first to say she isnt heavy. It blows my mind to think that a mother would talk to a daughter like that. Then again the mother is sickly skinny looking. I find it important to remind my lady how much i love her, how wonderful of a person she is and how beautiful i think she is. I do it daily. I am not just trying to counteract those remarks her mother makes. But i think its important.


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## JBaldwin (Jan 12, 2008)

I, too, appreciate the wonderful first post and several after them. As a woman, it is a delight to hear there are still men out there who understand and care about inner beauty.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 12, 2008)

Sammy Kershaw, _She Don't Know She's Beautiful_:



> We go out to a party somewhere
> The moment we walk in the door
> People stop and everybody stares
> She don't know what they're staring for
> ...


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## RamistThomist (Jan 12, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Sammy Kershaw, _She Don't Know She's Beautiful_:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



 Well-said! Sammy ran for Lt. Governor in the Commonwealth of Louisiana. He lost, but I still voted for him. Seriously, this is a good song in light of current discussion.


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## Pergamum (Jan 12, 2008)

Ha, let's remember that runway models are picked by fashion designers which are often effeminate, gay men who are themselves rail thin. 

Thus, the models are a reflection - not of female beauty - but the distorted idea of gay-men-beauty. 


I read a scientific study (no kidding), perhaps from Scientific American that showed that most men thought that figures such as Salma Hayek (i.e. fuller) were more beautiful. Of course,the Darwinian spin was that this hour-glass figure was better for breeding, more fertile and thus more fit for evolutionary means.



Great post above. 

While I do think there are objective standards of beauty and that a man can admit this, I do agree that we should always praise our wives. 

ONE ISSUE: This is from an experience my college friend had.

If your wife asks if she is the most beautiful woman in the world, this shows deep insecurity - but I am not sure lying to her is the solution, however. Or, if she is insecure and asks if other women are beautiful, I don't think lying here is also recommended. My friend lied very often to appease his wife and I am sure that this cute-but-not-gorgeous wife knew that she was not THE most beautiful woman in the world. In the end she not only was insecure but also did not trust her husband's word because he always said things merely to appease her.

My friend asked my advice and I suggested that he repond that "you are beautiful, I do not compare others to you..." as a sufficient response.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 12, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Ha, let's remember that runway models are picked by fashion designers which are often effeminate, gay men who are themselves rail thin.
> 
> Thus, the models are a reflection - not of female beauty - but the distorted idea of gay-men-beauty.
> 
> ...



That's our 5th agreement. I was listening to one counselor/pastor speak on secularism, feminism, etc. He mentioned that the women there (e.g., the secularistas) were "unloved, therefore ugly women." Now, we all know--and he probably knows--that as current standards of beuaty go, they are good-looking. But they are not lovely. My fiancee knows she is the loveliest woman in the world (I would say most "beautiful" but the meaning of that term is up for grabs at the moment). She is loved; therefore, she is lovely--and For what it's worth, gorgeous but I am not using those categories for the current discussion. Would I say she is the most beautiful? Well, I would but _beautiful _is no that rich a term and doesn't have the full-import of "lovely." 

If we define "beauty" in terms of ______________ like Hilton and others, then no one should want to be beautiful.


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## a mere housewife (Jan 12, 2008)

I was going to also say something along the same lines of not trusting anyone who would tell me that I am the most beautiful creature on earth. I would think he was being dishonest, or that he allowed his sentimentality to affect his judgment in which case I would still not find him very trustworthy. However I really appreciated that Rev. Keister wasn't speaking in a merely physical sense about allowing your wife to be your standard of beauty: indeed to do that in just a physical sense would be putting too much emphasis on outward appearance again, as if one _had _to be physically beautiful in order to be loved (and I just read, after posting this, Jacob's excellent points about being 'lovely' precisely because we are loved, or being loved into loveliness as Christ loves the church). But the husband is to be attracted to her for herself, and that is to be whole the female beauty he finds most compelling. 

My security in my husband's love and happiness with me doesn't come from having to compete on a physical level and outdo every actress on tv or every girl on the street or some of the gorgeous girls in church; no more do I have to be the most intelligent or talented girl in his or anyone else's eyes. It comes from knowing that in God's inexplicable goodness he prefers me, somehow (& in all honesty) for what I am not for something I am not. Indeed if he could only remain attracted to me by thinking me the most physically beautiful woman in the world I would feel far less secure even in his thinking so. His love would be based on lies; and I appreciate very much that Rev. Keister's point was focused on true beauty. In that sense of beauty though sin abounds and there is certainly disease, deformity, etc, that we long to be free of, grace does (hopefully in all Christian women) much more even here and now abound.


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## Neogillist (Jan 12, 2008)

Daniel Ritchie said:


> > Men, it is your responsibility to let your wives know that you think she is the most beautiful creature on the planet. Period.
> 
> 
> 
> Well Solomon certainly thought so; as far as I am concerned, if a woman is not the most beautiful woman in the world _in your eyes_ then don't marry her.



I personally identify three types of attractiveness in women: physical, personality, and spiritual. A good Chrisitan man will first look for spiritual, then personal and last physical attractiveness. A wolf on the other hand will first look for physical then personal and lastly spiritual. If you are still single like me and looking for a godly reformed girl, make sure you have the order correct. That is actually a bit how the puritans would think. Rather than falling in love and then considering a lover for marriage, they would first consider a partner for marriage, and then see if they can love him/her. This tended to create much stronger marriages.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jan 12, 2008)

Henry Smith, _A Preparative to Marriage_ in his _Works_, Vol. 1, pp. 13-14:



> To direct thee to a right choice herein, the Holy Ghost gives the two rules in the choice of a wife, godliness and fitness; godliness, because our spouse must be like Christ's spouse, that is, graced with gifts and embroidered with virtues, as if we married holiness herself. For the marriage of a man and woman is resembled of the apostle to the marriage of Christ and the church, Eph. v. 29. Now the church is called holy, because she is holy. In the sixth of the Canticles she is called undefiled, Cant. vi. 8, because she is undefiled. In the 45th Psalm she is called fair within, Ps. xlv. 9, because her beauty is inward. So our spouse should be holy, undefiled, and fair within. As God respecteth the heart, 1 Sam. xvi. 7, so we must respect the heart, because that must love, and not the face. Covetousness hath ever been a suitor to the richest, and pride to the highest, and lightness to the fairest; and for revenge hereof, his joy hath ever ended with his wife's youth, which took her beauty with it. The goods of the world are good, and the goods of the body are good, but the goods of the mind are better. As Paul commendeth faith, hope, and charity, but saith, 'the greatest of these is charity,' 1 Cor. xiii. 13, so may I commend beauty, and riches, and godliness; but the best of these is godliness, because it hath the things which it wants, and makes every state alike with her gift of contentation.


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## Narnian (Jan 12, 2008)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Henry Smith, _A Preparative to Marriage_ in his _Works_, Vol. 1, pp. 13-14:
> 
> 
> 
> > * snip* ...but the best of these is godliness, because it hath the things which it wants, and makes every state alike with her gift of contentation.


I couldn't agree more!



> Prov 5:18 Let your fountain be blessed,
> and rejoice in the wife of your youth


How much more beautiful is my wife today than she was 30 years ago. The beauty of her love for God shines through stronger every day.

Some things get better with age: wine, cheese and my wife!


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## bookslover (Jan 12, 2008)

One good way for us guys to keep this all in perspective is to look at the other side of the coin: as our wives look at us over time, we're not exactly going to stay looking as we did at 25 or 30. We husbands are (most of us, anyway; there are exceptions) going to go bald, get pudgy, grow hair in places we didn't know hair could grow - in other words, our wives will see us as we slide downhill (looks-wise) from Robert Redford (in his prime) to, say, Jack Black!

Just as we husbands need to cultivate looking at the spiritual beauty of our wives as their physical beauty fades over the years, our wives need to do the same with us. I think that a Christian couple in their 80s who are still ecstatically in love with each other has learned to do this.


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## moral necessity (Jan 13, 2008)

Adding to the main points being emphasized above, I would say the following: Being married for a while now, my opinion is that I think men ought to look for all three types of attractiveness, each in accordance with their own individual wiring, if they desire a truly happy and fulfilling marriage. If attraction is low to moderate, for some, the marriage will be, at best, a functional marriage, and fulfilling I Cor. 7:5 to one another will be done more out of obedience than desire. For others, the marriage may be more than functional, for their drive for attraction may not be as high as it is in others. 

Using an analogy that is somewhat similar, I think God made all sorts of flowers out there for us to enjoy, and some poeple enjoy certain ones, and others enjoy ones of another sort. And, we can pick whichever type we desire to adorn our houses with. God is not some ogre (not that we said he was) who does not want us to pick from the flowers that we are attracted to. He wants us to pick the one that stimulates our affections for it. For otherwise, why would he have designed us men to be wired towards the physical beauty? For some, this may require choosing an exotic, rare specimen. For others, it may require a beautiful dandilion. 

What I want to ensure is remembered by single men is, that it is truly okay to keep attractiveness on the priority list, without disregarding the others. Just as when you pick a type of flower to adorn your house with, you not only pick one that is appropriate and suitable for the location and setting and temperature and humidity that it will dwell in, but that you also pick one that you personally like and enjoy to look at and be around, one that draws you to itself. I fear that young men are tempted to stifle their God-given desire for visual stimulation out of a desire for holiness before God in choosing a mate. The monks did the same thing, with regard to this and other earthly stimulations. They would examine their choice of food that they would have for dinner with the same kind of priority. And, if it was something that tasted good, they would withdraw from it and choose the one that did not give them physical pleasure. I also fear that young men may try to impress upon other men their own personal formula of how much emphasis should be given to attraction. 

So, I emphasize all three, for I think all three are important in making a marriage fulfilling, yet I emphasize them according to the individual. And, if I personally could only choose from women that possessed only one of the three attractive qualities, of course I would choose the spiritual quality. This makes the marriage functional. Yet, it was designed to be more than functional.

Actually, if I may be somewhat bold here, and yet very tentative with these words, I would even go so far as to say that, for some men, it would be good for them to place emphasis on the physical, above the norm of others. And, I don't mean in lieu of the other two qualities, but rather in regard to the degree of comparison between them. Just remember, some men are wired more tightly in the areas of physical attraction than other men are, just as some men are more wired for aggressiveness than a normal man is, and some have a stronger desire to conquer or win than a normal man does. And, it can be a heavy burden for those men, who have a tighter wiring in this area of physical attraction, to carry it with them through 50 years of marriage, if that area was stifled or not properly attended to in choosing a mate. It would be like a man who was a born deer hunter marrying a woman who was a born environmentalist. Compatability is necessary according to each individual's wiring, and for some, the level of compatability that is needed in the area of physical attraction is more than it is in others. And, that's okay, because God wired them as such.

You young, single men, be cautious with this. Idealistic theories don't lead to the ideal marriage. Realistic theories are required, for you are real, not ideal! 

Blessings!


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## KatieF2 (Feb 13, 2008)

I would be mortified to find out that my husband didn't find me attractive, had married me for my spirituality. Equally I would not be able to trust him if he said I was the most beautiful woman in the world. 
Having said that, beauty fades with age so although physical attraction is important in the beginning, it needs to be replaced by a growing loveliness, a more Christlikeness as we age. Marriage is supposed to represent Christ and the Church but it is also intended for the raising of Godly children. Therefore beauty of a sort is required but not most important. Faith , Hope and Love are also neccesary, the inner beauty that does not fade. Proverbs 5 teaches us how important the physical is to marriage and how a good physical relationship is neccesary to maintain it. A man who has access to his wife's breasts anytime will not be so easily tempted by another even if she is more attractive. A man who has just eaten his fill will not soon want more, but a man who hasn't eaten for days will be tempted to steal food. 
We were created in His image, body, soul and spirit and all three must be in balance for a healthy relationship.


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## Neopatriarch (Feb 13, 2008)

I recognize there are other beautiful women out there other than my wife, but so what? The only beauty that matters to me is my wife's. Not only that, many of the women you see in magazines have been doctored with Adobe Photoshop or some similar program. Have you guys seen the Dove Evolution Commercial? You can look it up on youtube. 

Even if my wife were physically ugly, 1 Cor. 11:7 says that woman is the glory of man. Inasmuch as my wife displays that glory in her nurturing, domestic, motherly, wise, and wifely character, she is beautiful and glorious. Remember, woman is the crowning achievement of God's creation. Even if a woman is not physically beautiful, what is more important is her inner beauty.

My recommendation to single guys is to turn off the TV.


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## BJClark (Feb 13, 2008)

SRoper;



> Some posts, Bobbi's in particular, seem to forget the reality of the Fall and the effects of disease, deformity, death, and decay on beauty. To say that we are all beautiful because God in his providence made us the way we are seems to me to be fatalistic. We don't say that we are all healthy because God made in his providence made us the way we are, so why should we say that about beauty? I believe there is a sense that we can wish that our bodies were not marred by the Fall, and we can look forward to the return of Christ and the restoration of all things.



With all due respect, I'm not forgetting the reality of the fall, and maybe I am fatalist in my thinking here, however even looking at Scripture, we have a man born blind, by most standards blindness would be a deformity in some way. but when asked about why he was born blind, what was Jesus' response?

Jhn 9:2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this man, or his parents, that he was born blind? 

Jhn 9:3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the works of God should be made manifest in him. 


So how can I look at other people who are by the worlds standards deformed, or disabled in some way from birth and not see it from the same perspective?
That it was so that the works of God should be made manifest in them? But then that doesn't mean that they will all be healed (by the worlds standard of healing) but that God may be Glorified through them.

I have seen men's hearts change when their children have been born with what we consider a defect in their looks. Not always in a good way either, some get angry at God, while others turn to Him, is that not God still working and being shown through those so called defects? 

Could these parents have done something different to ensure their child was not born with an outward 'defect'? In some cases maybe, but in others no, so in that case was it their 'fate or their destiny' as it's called for them? Most certainly, why because Scripture tells me, God knit me together in my mothers womb, so did God make a mistake when He knit together someone who was born with a 'defect'? I don't think so...

Did God forget to put ten fingers and ten toes on one person and not on another or did He do that by design when HE knit them together in their mothers womb, and did He do so taking the effects of sin in the world into consideration?

How can I say that God some how made a mistake knitting someone together in a peticular fashion while in their mothers womb? Even taking the reality of the fall into consideration, God is still the one who knit the person together, in the way He wanted them to be and look the way He wanted them to look, if that is fatalistic thinking, then I guess I am a fatalist, but I see it as accepting God working through man's sin to bring Glory to Himself, no matter what a person looks like outwardly. And in that God created them, even if they have some type of 'deformity', they are still God's creation knit together by Him, and therefore beautiful. 

Who decides that one person is physically ugly while another is not? Isn't it nothing more than man's sinful heart that makes that judgment against God's creation?


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## SRoper (Feb 13, 2008)

I think I'm on solid ground if I say that God is the source of natural evil. I have no problem asserting that God knits people together with defects or deformity as this is just one form of natural evil. It is all for his glory, but that does not mean that we are to just accept the way things are. That's a confusion of God's hidden will with his revealed will. Christ gave the example of healing those who have been marred by the fall. In this way we can see a glimpse of the restoration of all things breaking into this present evil age.

You haven't addressed my comparison of beauty with health. If God knits a person together with a hole in his heart, who are we to say that is unhealthy? After all, it was God's will to make him that way. If God can't make a person who is not beautiful then he can't make a person who is unhealthy.

Of course, none of what I wrote is intended to diminish the worth of a human life.


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## VictorBravo (Feb 13, 2008)

bookslover said:


> One good way for us guys to keep this all in perspective is to look at the other side of the coin: as our wives look at us over time, we're not exactly going to stay looking as we did at 25 or 30. We husbands are (most of us, anyway; there are exceptions) going to go bald, get pudgy, grow hair in places we didn't know hair could grow - in other words, our wives will see us as we slide downhill (looks-wise) from Robert Redford (in his prime) to, say, Jack Black!



 Some of us never started as Robert Redford!

I had never heard of Jack Black, you mean this guy?:







I certainly looked more like him in my youth than Redford.


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## BJClark (Feb 13, 2008)

SRoper;



> You haven't addressed my comparison of beauty with health. If God knits a person together with a hole in his heart, who are we to say that is unhealthy? After all, it was God's will to make him that way. If God can't make a person who is not beautiful then he can't make a person who is unhealthy.
> 
> Of course, none of what I wrote is intended to diminish the worth of a human life.



Well, there really is no comparision, as beauty is subjective to a person's opinion of what they look at and think of as beautiful, but that does not mean they are not beautiful.

And as I asked above: 



> Who decides that one person is physically ugly while another is not? Isn't it nothing more than man's sinful heart that makes that judgment against God's creation?



You could look at a person and say in your opinion they are ugly...another person can look at the same person and disagree with your opinion, and actually see them as very beautiful.

Where as a person born with a hole in their heart is not subjective, two, three or four doctors can look at the child's heart, see the hole and not come to different opinions as to what they are looking at. They all see the same hole.

They may come to differing opinions about what to do about the hole in the heart, but not the fact there is a hole in the heart.


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## fredtgreco (Feb 13, 2008)

SRoper said:


> I think I'm on solid ground if I say that God is the source of natural evil. I have no problem asserting that God knits people together with defects or deformity as this is just one form of natural evil. It is all for his glory, but that does not mean that we are to just accept the way things are. That's a confusion of God's hidden will with his revealed will. Christ gave the example of healing those who have been marred by the fall. In this way we can see a glimpse of the restoration of all things breaking into this present evil age.
> 
> You haven't addressed my comparison of beauty with health. If God knits a person together with a hole in his heart, who are we to say that is unhealthy? After all, it was God's will to make him that way. If God can't make a person who is not beautiful then he can't make a person who is unhealthy.
> 
> Of course, none of what I wrote is intended to diminish the worth of a human life.



We can say that it is unhealthy because it is inherently _unnatural_ - that is, not as designed by God before the Fall, and a result of sin.

Sin is still sin, and yet God uses that for His glory.


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## Robert Truelove (Feb 14, 2008)

I think that this is an area where the church can be a major help. Does one's church adopt the standard of the world in regards to feminine beauty or the standards of the Scripture?

If the culture of the church is strong about what makes the 'fairer sex' fairer, this will be a major means of grace in the lives of ALL our beautiful Christian women. 

I must note one exception however...of all the fair Christian ladies, my wife is the fairest! This wonderful Christian woman has been faithful to me for these last 15 years, has been an ever present sigil to point me to Christ when I need such aid, and has born me three fantastic children (and one on the way!). I would not be a fraction of the man I am today without her. Even as I lead her as a husband, she has been a powerful means of grace to me. May God bless her and grant her the full blessings of Christ Jesus our Lord.

Happy Valentines day my dearest Patricia! You are the loveliest, and the love of my life!



greenbaggins said:


> One of the things that distresses me most about modern culture is that there is a fake standard of beauty to which no woman can possibly attain. All you have to do is look at a few interviews with (even) supermodels, and they will tend to express dissatisfaction with their looks at some point. The only way to describe society's standards of beauty is to take the measurements of one woman, the face of another woman, etc., until you have the complete picture. Needless to say, no woman has all of this, and it is grossly unfair to women to expect them to attain to this nonexistent standard.
> 
> The effect such a standard has on men is evident from rampant p0rnography problems even in the church. Men are no longer satisfied with their wives, since their wives are (mentally) being made to conform to some _outside_ standard of beauty.
> 
> ...


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