# Suffering and the Church...



## jd.morrison (Sep 26, 2008)

Does anyone think that the economic ruin of the U.S. and its eventual down fall (all empires fall), would bring in a new golden age of for the American Church? We are so spiritually corrupt and lost as a nation, blinded by materialism and selfishness the loss of such ability might redirect peoples hearts and minds...

Any thoughts?


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## Pergamum (Sep 26, 2008)

Am I checking the news enough? Our economy is not in ruin yet, is it?





I do think that the unhinging of missions from the colonial powers has returned missions to a pre-Constantinian state and missions can thrive now like never before. Especially in the Muslim world, once missionaries are no longer viewed as agents of Western powers, they can begin forming real bonds and making real gains.


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## jd.morrison (Sep 26, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> Am I checking the news enough? Our economy is not in ruin yet, is it?
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> ...



There was a Chinese missionary who came to my church and was talking about that... How God stopped the Apostles from going East or at least very far East, and that the Gospel has been slowly circumnavigating the world going West... And that China, and the Far East is getting ready to make major incursions into the Muslim world for that very reason... It is a really exciting time in that sense...


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## Pergamum (Sep 26, 2008)

Yes, I have met some of these "Back to Jerusalem" folks. One told me that the present suffering of the Chinese church was to train them up for still more suffering to come once they began taking the Gospel through the hert of the Middle East.


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## TimV (Sep 26, 2008)

> There was a Chinese missionary who came to my church and was talking about that... How God stopped the Apostles from going East or at least very far East,



You will want to question the information of the Chinese brother. There were huge numbers of Christians in the East, but they bought into heresies like Nestorianism which has a weak spot that quickly turned fatal.

We don't really know where the Apostles went, but I would like someone more knowledgeable than myself to point me to some current scholarly reading matter on the subject. Using church legends and things I've read, we have Apostles just as far East as West.


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## jd.morrison (Sep 26, 2008)

TimV said:


> > There was a Chinese missionary who came to my church and was talking about that... How God stopped the Apostles from going East or at least very far East,
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> 
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> ...



I am aware of the fact that Christians did make their way into the east, I think the point was that the majority of God's Purpose "seems" to be a westward journey for the Gospel over all... I am not a scholar either, but I am aware of several Christian communities in the Far East that died out or were drowned out by heresies.


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## jambo (Sep 26, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> I do think that the unhinging of missions from the colonial powers has returned missions to a pre-Constantinian state and missions can thrive now like never before. Especially in the Muslim world, once missionaries are no longer viewed as agents of Western powers, they can begin forming real bonds and making real gains.



Reading Rev 18 and the fall of Babylon, one can almost see a parallel in the laments and reactions over Babylon's collapse and the panic over the current feared collapse. Who knows maybe capitalism is the great Babylon? But I must stress that Revelation must never be interpreted by current affairs. 

I think Pergamum's point of missions thriving is valid. We can be very arrogant in thinking missionary endeavour is dependant on the west. Certainly the west has supported missions and contributed a huge ammount in terms of personel and finance. But times are changing. I can think of a number of South Americans working in Spain. Of Africans and Koreans being sent to Europe as missionaries. What was the sending continent is now the receiving continent.


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## jd.morrison (Sep 26, 2008)

jambo said:


> I think Pergamum's point of missions thriving is valid. We can be very arrogant in thinking missionary endeavour is dependant on the west. Certainly the west has supported missions and contributed a huge ammount in terms of personel and finance. But times are changing. I can think of a number of South Americans working in Spain. Of Africans and Koreans being sent to Europe as missionaries. What was the sending continent is now the receiving continent.


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## Leslie (Sep 26, 2008)

The church history of my area of Ethiopia is one of (so far) 4 cycles of explosive growth--persecution with disappearance of the visible church--new freedoms with explosive growth. As the explosive growth happens, corruption sets in--which is what is happening now. Some of the golden oldie saints--those who were alive when the gospel first came to the area in the 30's--are now praying FOR renewed persecution. Their prayers are being answered with the rise if the "relijin of peace" with many "conversions" of covenant young people to those teachings, in order to obtain economic and social advantages. It would not surprise me one bit if these same golden oldies have been praying for the renewal of the church in the states and that their prayers are being answered with the current crisis which will be followed by substantial persecutions. Fallen human nature is the same worldwide and thus, in some respects, God deals with our corruptions similarly.


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