# The eschaton, heaven, hell, etc.



## sotzo (Aug 28, 2007)

Regarding final things (such as those in the subject line of this post) has anyone ever had feelings that oscillate wildly between anger, fear, unbelief and joy? What is the means of stability in such matters? For example, the thought of people actually experiencing hell for eternity is enough to drive one insane...while the thought of being in the presence of Jesus is sweet! Then, back to the thought of "what if I have this salvation thing wrong" and the cycle continues.

To be sure, I rest alone on Christ my King as the One who has secured me...but if my head starts going down these paths, it doesn't seem / feel like much rest.


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## Iconoclast (Aug 28, 2007)

*2Cor3:4-5*



sotzo said:


> Regarding final things (such as those in the subject line of this post) has anyone ever had feelings that oscillate wildly between anger, fear, unbelief and joy? What is the means of stability in such matters? For example, the thought of people actually experiencing hell for eternity is enough to drive one insane...while the thought of being in the presence of Jesus is sweet! Then, back to the thought of "what if I have this salvation thing wrong" and the cycle continues.
> 
> To be sure, I rest alone on Christ my King as the One who has secured me...but if my head starts going down these paths, it doesn't seem / feel like much rest.



Knowing that the God of all the earth will do right[Gen.18:25]
That He as our Great High Priest invites us to draw near in prayer Hebrews 4, Hebrews 10
That he makes known to us His eternal purpose Eph.3:9-11
It seems like some of this emotional fluctuation is so that we do not become complacent with doctrinal truth, and not reach out to others from the heart, who are outside the kingdom.
4And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: 

5Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God; 

6Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. 

3Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort; 

4Who comforteth us in all our tribulation, that we may be able to comfort them which are in any trouble, by the comfort wherewith we ourselves are comforted of God. 

5For as the sufferings of Christ abound in us, so our consolation also aboundeth by Christ. 

6And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. 

7And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation. 

We see the same emotional and mental up's and downs reflected in the psalms, and in the lives of the great cloud of witnesses in hebrews 11-12


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## Herald (Aug 28, 2007)

Joel - I am comforted by one reality expressed in two separate ways:



> Romans 5:1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ





> Philippians 4:6-7 6 Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known to God. 7 And the peace of God, which surpasses all comprehension, will guard your hearts and your minds in Christ Jesus.



On the one hand I have peace with God (Romans 5:1), made possible by faith in Jesus Christ. This is my hope of eternal life which settles the question of the eschaton. It becomes a matter of believing by faith in what Christ has accomplished and what has been promised, for eternity, for those who believe. 

On the other hand I have the peace of God, also made possible by Christ, but requires my obedience. We are called not to be anxious or to worry. This would include the premise of your OP. Instead we are to bring all our concerns to God in prayer. He promises to give us His peace, a peace that cannot be described and it will watch over our soul.


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## sotzo (Aug 28, 2007)

Brothers:

Thanks *very much* for the encouraging words from Scripture.

Do you think it may be sinful to dwell on these things to the point where it overtakes ones thought life? I wake up many times at night grieved that hell has to be..."God, isn't there some other way to satisfy your justice??!!"...it all sounds like I'm being saintly ("at least you aren't up at night browsing questionable sites on the Internet", I've been counseled)....but I see this as serious as one's problem with the Internet...I mean, at root what I'm expressing is unbelief. 

I long for the day (in this life) when assurance is as real to me as the air I breathe.


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## Herald (Aug 28, 2007)

sotzo said:


> Brothers:
> 
> Thanks *very much* for the encouraging words from Scripture.
> 
> ...



Joel - is it sinful? Depends. At the least it is not helpful to vex your soul over things that God has ordained for our comfort. Eschatology is for the comfort of God's people. It introduces God's plan for eternity. As far as hell and the satisfaction of His wrath; consider that God would have been justified in killing Adam and Eve and ending the human race. It was His grace in operation that spared their lives and the same grace that gives us hope.

I look forward from the day that I am liberated from this body of death. I agree with you.



> Romans 7:24-25 24 Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? 25 Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.


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## Iconoclast (Aug 29, 2007)

sotzo said:


> Brothers:
> 
> Thanks *very much* for the encouraging words from Scripture.
> 
> ...



It is possible to dwell too much on these things and to drift into sinful concern or worry.When you first asked the question it reminded me of this Psalm 130

Psalm 130
1Out of the depths have I cried unto thee, O LORD. 

2Lord, hear my voice: let thine ears be attentive to the voice of my supplications. 

3If thou, LORD, shouldest mark iniquities, O Lord, who shall stand? 

4But there is forgiveness with thee, that thou mayest be feared. 

5I wait for the LORD, my soul doth wait, and in his word do I hope. 

6My soul waiteth for the Lord more than they that watch for the morning: I say, more than they that watch for the morning. 

7Let Israel hope in the LORD: for with the LORD there is mercy, and with him is plenteous redemption. 

8And he shall redeem Israel from all his iniquities.

While it is proper to examine our life circumstances in light of biblical instruction, you do not want to get to a point where it becomes debilitating. It will drain your joy ,and sap your strength making you a less effective witness. We are called into the battle among those outside the kingdom.Eph2
10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them
and again in Phillipians2
12Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. 

13For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure. 

14Do all things without murmurings and disputings: 

15That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world; 

16Holding forth the word of life; that I may rejoice in the day of Christ, that I have not run in vain, neither laboured in vain. 

17Yea, and if I be offered upon the sacrifice and service of your faith, I joy, and rejoice with you all. 

18For the same cause also do ye joy, and rejoice with me. 

Set your focus on things above as the saints are described doing in Revelation 15-19
They have a clearer view of the victorious Lamb,and His righteous judgements


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