# Stonewall Jackson



## VirginiaHuguenot

Thomas J. ("Stonewall") Jackson was born on January 21, 1824. He died on May 10, 1863. He one of the most famous Americans, generals and Presbyterian deacons in history. 

He served the US in the Mexican War and was a professor at VMI in Lexington, Virginia. He became the South's greatest general during the War Between the States. 

A more devoutly faithful Christian soldier would be difficult to find. He completely trusted in God's sovereign providential care and did not flinch on the battlefield. His last words were: "Let us cross over the river and rest under the shade of the trees." 

Highly recommended is R.L. Dabney's biography _The Llife and Campaigns of Stonewall Jackson_ as well as the movie _Gods and Generals_ (2003). 

http://www.vmi.edu/archives/Jackson/jackson.html

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/williams1.html

http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoundation/jackson/stonewall-soldier-man.html


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## Irishcat922

"Stonewall" Jackson, the kind of man you want your sons to grow up to be like, and your daughters to marry.


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## cupotea

Without question Thomas Jackson was one of the greatest Americans who ever lived and ought to be better remembered in this country for the fact.


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## Ivan

<<"Stonewall" Jackson, the kind of man you want your sons to grow up to be like, and your daughters to marry. --- Sean Jones>>

<<Without question Thomas Jackson was one of the greatest Americans who ever lived and ought to be better remembered in this country for the fact. --- Michael Gridley>>

 and  !!!!!!!!!


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## blhowes

Pop Quiz:

We studied the civil war every year (7th to 9th) when I was in junior high school (public schools). If I gave you a dollar for every time these basic things about Jackson's faith were mentioned, how many dollars do you think you'd have?


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## Ivan

> _Originally posted by blhowes_
> Pop Quiz:
> 
> We studied the civil war every year (7th to 9th) when I was in junior high school (public schools). If I gave you a dollar for every time these basic things about Jackson's faith were mentioned, how many dollars do you think you'd have?



Zero?


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## Ivan

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> My answer:



That would be  more than me! 

Brillant, aren't I.


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## blhowes

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by joshua_
> My answer:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> That would be  more than me!
> 
> Brillant, aren't I.
Click to expand...

I'll just bet you didnt' go to public schools, right?

Anyway, so far Ivan's the closest...actually, come to think of it, his answer was absolutely correct. (see what a public education does to one's brain!)

[Edited on 1-21-2005 by blhowes]


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## Ivan

> _Originally posted by blhowes_
> I'll just bet you didnt' go to public schools, right?



I went to a public school, two state universities and a Southern Baptist seminary, but overcame it all with deep repentance and reading Calvin's Institutes! 

Actually, I've only read sections of Calvin's Institutes, but it's on my list for the next purchase...along with my New Reformation ESV Bible.


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## Reformingstudent

So many things I never knew before about Jackson and Robert E. Lee. It amazes me how little we have been taught in school all these years. Of course though, I went to school in the North so Lee and Jackson were vilified to say the least.


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## Ivan

> _Originally posted by Keylife_fan_
> So many things I never knew before about Jackson and Robert E. Lee. It amazes me how little we have been taught in school all these years. Of course though, I went to school in the North so Lee and Jackson were vilified to say the least.



Please take the time to read a bio or two about these two great Christian gentlemen. Such readings changed my mind about the South and the War.


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## LawrenceU

Thomas Jackson has been my hero from my earliest memories. He is one of the greatest men to grace this continent.

'Let us pass over the river and rest in the shadow of the trees.'


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## Richard King

I found an OUTSTANDING DVD on the CRTA site. It is an incredible story on the faith of Robt. E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson. I would recommend it to anyone...although it is probably illegal to show in public schools. Too much documented truth.

http://greatchristianbooks.spreadtheword.com/store/comersus_index.asp?ReferralCode=


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## Ivan

> _Originally posted by Richard King_
> I would recommend it to anyone...although it is probably illegal to show in public schools. Too much documented truth.



 Funny, but  so true. Makes me  and I want to 

[Edited on 1-22-2005 by Ivan]


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## Puritanhead

"Without God's blessing I look for no success, and for every success my prayer is, that all the glory may be given unto Him to whom it is properly due. If people would but give all the glory to God, and regard his creatures as but unworthy instruments, my heart would rejoice. Alas too frequently the praise is bestowed upon the creature." -- General Thomas Jonathan Jackson

Second War of Independence
written by Ronald F. Maxwell, from the book by Jeff Shaara

Jackson: Throughout the broad extent of the country through wich you have marched, by your respect for the rights and property of others, you have always shown that you are soldiers not ony to defend, but able and willing both to defend and protect. You've already won a brilliant reputation throughout the army of the whole Confederacy; and I trust in the future by your deeds in the field, and by the assistance of the same kind Providence who has hitherto favored our cause, you will win more victories and add lustre to the reputation you now enjoy. You have already gained a proud position in the future history of this our Second War of Independence. I shall look with anxiety toward your future movements, and I trust whenever I shall hear of the First Brigade on the field of battle, it will be of still nobler deeds achieved, and higher reputation won!

(Jackson starts to leave, but turns back. He stands high in his stirrups, draws his sword, and raises it high.)

Jackson: In the Army of the Shenandoah, you were the First Brigade! In the Army of the Potomac you were the First Brigade! In the Second Corps of this Army, you are the First Brigade! You are the First Brigade in the affections of your general, and I hope by your future deeds and bearing you will be handed down the posterity as the First Brigade in this our Second War of Independence. Godspeed!

 and


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## VirginiaHuguenot

I drove by Lexington, Virginia yesterday, Jackson's home and final resting place. My son is named for this man, a Christian hero of the faith. My son is also named for my brother who died young this past week as Jackson also died young. My brother was not a believer, but Jackson was, and so he still stands before the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. To God be the glory for such a man!


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## RamistThomist

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> "Without God's blessing I look for no success, and for every success my prayer is, that all the glory may be given unto Him to whom it is properly due. If people would but give all the glory to God, and regard his creatures as but unworthy instruments, my heart would rejoice. Alas too frequently the praise is bestowed upon the creature." -- General Thomas Jonathan Jackson
> 
> Second War of Independence
> written by Ronald F. Maxwell, from the book by Jeff Shaara
> 
> Jackson: Throughout the broad extent of the country through wich you have marched, by your respect for the rights and property of others, you have always shown that you are soldiers not ony to defend, but able and willing both to defend and protect. You've already won a brilliant reputation throughout the army of the whole Confederacy; and I trust in the future by your deeds in the field, and by the assistance of the same kind Providence who has hitherto favored our cause, you will win more victories and add lustre to the reputation you now enjoy. You have already gained a proud position in the future history of this our Second War of Independence. I shall look with anxiety toward your future movements, and I trust whenever I shall hear of the First Brigade on the field of battle, it will be of still nobler deeds achieved, and higher reputation won!
> 
> (Jackson starts to leave, but turns back. He stands high in his stirrups, draws his sword, and raises it high.)
> 
> Jackson: In the Army of the Shenandoah, you were the First Brigade! In the Army of the Potomac you were the First Brigade! In the Second Corps of this Army, you are the First Brigade! You are the First Brigade in the affections of your general, and I hope by your future deeds and bearing you will be handed down the posterity as the First Brigade in this our Second War of Independence. Godspeed!
> 
> and



I had that part of the movie memorized...okay, I had all of Stonewall Jackson's lines memorized. Reading it again put chills on my spine. Stonewall Jackson's example in life encourages me in holiness daily. So many thoughts to express, so little words, so little time.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Today is the anniversay of Stonewall Jackson's death. He died at Guinea Station, Virginia, about one hour from where I live.


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## Poimen

This post has spurred my interest to learn more about the Civil War. Being a Canadian citizen we spent most of our time on the war of 1812 (for obvious reasons ) and when I was in university most of my American history classes focused on the post-bellum period. 

I really enjoyed the movie "Gettysburg." As an aside, do those who are civil war 'experts' on this board, believe the book "Killer Angels" and the movie do the battle justice (as per balancing both sides of the event)?


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## VirginiaHuguenot

I haven't read _Killer Angels_ and it's been too long since I saw _Gettysburg_ for me to properly review it. But if you want to see a good (and historically accurate) movie along those lines, there's nothing better than _Gods and Generals_.


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## Poimen

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> I haven't read _Killer Angels_ and it's been too long since I saw _Gettysburg_ for me to properly review it. But if you want to see a good (and historically accurate) movie along those lines, there's nothing better than _Gods and Generals_.



Alright I will look into it. I would have seen it already but the reviews were not that favorable. Maybe because it was so openly Christian?


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## Contra_Mundum

"Gettysburg" was good, although I was disappointed by Martin Sheen in the role of Lee. It did present more balance than most CW fliks.

"Gods and Generals" is an even better movie (In my humble opinion). A first-class production. Yes it was panned for failing to deliver on the party-line.


As for the War of 1812, I read a book in college, _Flames Across the Border,_ actually a follow-up work to another by the same man on the beginnings of the conflict. It changed my perception (such as it was) on that war. In the author's view, Canada (or Ontario) was growing practically inevitably closer to the United States. There were many ties, economic and familial across the border. Canada was not out for war with the US, although they were still colonial territory. But with the outbreak of war between the US and Britian, New Englanders, especially New Yorkers, saw an opportunity to land-grab. They failed, of course. The result was lasting animosity and permanent division between the two North American territories. You could say the War of 1812 made Canada _Canada,_ as opposed to a US relative.


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## Puritanhead

He died at the young age of 38-- way too young though...


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## Arch2k

This is one of his most famous quotes, but I get chills every time I hear it:



> "Captain, my religious belief teaches me to feel as safe in battle as in bed. God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me." He added, after a pause, looking me full in the face: "That is the way all men should live, and then all would be equally brave"


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## RamistThomist

My favorite quote in the movie. It is at the Battle of First Manassas. The Southrons are on the verge of being routed and Jackson appears out of nowhere roaring,

"Rise up, Virginia! Stand up, you men! Stand up, you free men!"
"We are going to charge them! We are going to drive them to Washington. Stand up, men!"

"Armies together! First Brigade, reserve your fire until they come to fifty yards, then fire and _give them the bayonet_. And when you charge, yell like furies!"


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## VirginiaHuguenot

I'm visiting the Stonewall Jackson Museum tomorrow, d.v. What a cool place!


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## rmwilliamsjr

i wrote this review of God and Generals a couple of years back
it is a must see movie......



> review of _Gods and Generals_
> I finally had the opportunity to watch _Gods and Generals_ last night. I watched it, my wife went to bed after 2 hours of the 4 hours, partly because she needed to get up to go to work this morning, but mostly because i think she gets tired of me cheering for Johnny Reb. I am an unashamed Southern sympathizer even though i was raised in southern California, it may very well be genetic however as my mom's people come from the Eastern Shore of Maryland and the one time i met my grandfather it was pretty obvious he was Southern. I watched the movie, absorbed by the characters, heart raced by the battle scenes, in tears at the horror and destruction of war. I yelled at the lines of foolish men throwing their lives into a pit as the walked into the hail of cannonfire and minibullets (come to think of it my wife might of disliked that part to), laughed as 1 of the 3 main characters hailed from Maine (my wife's adopted state), a college professor of history and philosophy, but warmed up to him as he quoted Julius Caesar's crossing the Rubicon at length just before a battle. So in general i acted like a crazy football fan at the finals, cheering the Gray and booing the Blue.
> 
> But as i reflect upon the movie, it is the Christianity of the Generals that comes through most strongly, and here i am as little impartial as i am to the participants. I share in the conservative faith of Jackson, i think Robert Dabney is one of the best theologians America has ever raised up. I was truely amazed that a movie would be done in modern secular anti-theistic America where the lead characters really pray, really believe, really love the Lord, (Wow, how did that get past the censors?) or be thought to make any money? Their faith is not dumbed down, the hard parts are presented as in where Jackson sits and cries for the death of a little girl by scarlet fever as his men remark-but he didnt cry for all the men we've lost. The minority view of the war is presented straight forward at several places: the Civil War as the Second American Revolution, the role of the Irish, slavery as a side issue not the important one, the contradictory role of the races in Jackson's praying with his black cook, or the protection of a white family's house by their brave women slave and her children and her talk to northerners about wanting to be free, for example. I had even hoped that somewhere on the extra disk would be several alternative endings where the South won.
> 
> And this is where my thinking is pushed by this most extraordinary movie, alternatives. They all revolve around the Faith and slavery, Biblical Christianity and ethnic relationships where a history of such epic proportions and such real horror intertwine with fundamental principles and good sound religious belief. This is the great value of the movie being as true as it possibly can to the historical conditions of the Civil War, for it was a religious as well as an economic, (industrial v. agarian), political (right to sucession), or what-have-you war. This is often minimized in our era of weak believism, mild feelings about religious things, a general feelings that religion isn't a great motivator, money and politics are. Well, secular America meet your great great grandparents, see their religious beliefs mirrored in the young suicide bombers in Israel, or the car bombers in Iraq. Religious beliefs are worth dying and even killing for, today as they where in 1861-4.
> 
> But it is in the mixture of truth and error that the movie hints at in the relationship of the races that is to me the takehome message that i need to dwell on, for those issues are not finished in today's America and the war was finished so long ago. Jackson (not in the movie but in real life) knelt with slaves in church, praying to the same Lord. Lee owned slaves, Dabney defended slavery in a book 20 years after the war. The South did fight to preserve the 'peculiar institution', slavery, abolitionists where Christians as well, although often Unitarians not Presbyterians. And this is where the present hits 1861 headon, and the power and the bright coloration of history so as to make it alive and real in the movie has great value. This is the extraordinary opportunity that the movie gives us, to revisit and re-evaluate our past, as if the issues are meaningful to us, important to us as they were to Jackson, or Lee, or whats-his-name you know the Maine guy. That is why i recommend even Yankees to watch the movie, to learn what moved our ancestors in a way that a book just can't do. So thanks all of you who contributed to this movie for an accurate picture of a piece of the War for Southern Rights.
> 
> 
> 
> It is the relationship of slavery to Christianity that the movie leaves most strongly in my mind.
> To start with: I don't think the Bible condemns slavery but it does not allow a slavery of fellow believers, nor a hereditarial, race-based slavery as evolved in the South.
> That the war was basically an industrial, secularizing society over an agarian, conservative one where the material basis of Southern society-large scale agricultural slave based society was unable to move to the next stage in development without a fight.
> That many of the abolitionist were speaking from a defective religious base, often Unitarian or what would become liberal progressive Christianity in the next generation versus a much more conservative biblical based Christianity of the South, a faith i share and adopted not born or raised into.
> That the South was right and the North was wrong.
> 
> And the big issue for me is why the South lost if they were on God's side? Was Jackson faith in an historical, biblical God either misplaced because God is really like the Northern Unitarians preach? Or worse yet, where they all deluded and backwards, and there is no god and the issue is simply sociological and historical? What is the utility of Jackson's faith if he dies from a Southern bullet and the South lost?
> 
> This issue is not going to go away. What good is it to believe in lost causes in 2003? The War of Southern Secession marks a watershed moment in American and Christian history, from there the liberal branch of the faith is in ascendancy, a marked division between the churches of the north and south occurs, to be partly healed only recently. And the issues out of slavery are far from settled in either the general society or in the church.
> 
> I think the South allowed the faith to be intertwined with economic theory. It let the reasons for slavery infilltrate the church because of human sinful racism, period. It was easy to justify enslaving the other, the outsider, the not-my-kind and using the Bible to justify it. And this same process is alive and well in every Christian because sin is still with us and actively corrupting our minds and emotions. The only cure is recognisation and repentance, just like the process in everyother sin in our individual and corporate lives. Repent and rely on God's goodness to reshape us to do the right thing.
> 
> It is this process that the war stopped, the Southern repentance for the sins of their fathers. The whole hearted acknowledgement that the very economy basis of society was based on a lie, not just any lie, but a lie justified and preached about as a theme of the Faith. In Christ there is no other, all Christians are my brothers, black, Spanish speaking, Chinese, men, woman, children, the faith is not exclusive as regards any ethnicity, language, culture. This is not just a good noble ideal but is real, actual and ought to have great consequences for the faith and how we work it out at our fingertips in the real world. And these are the alternative endings i would have written for the movie, war is avoided, the South repents and frees the slaves and racial justice, equality, and brotherhood comes from not the French revolution's rights of man but the Biblical rights of brethren under God. As was beliefs hardened, society closed ranks against the northern carpetbaggers and the ex-slaves got caught in the middle and this societal repentance never happened. And the country as we have it today is partly a result of this never-quite-finished war-between-the-states that was reflected in the war between ethnic groups but underneath it all is the war within ourselves.


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## RamistThomist

I am going to wait a few minutes before I respond. I don't quite know what you are getting at in the movie.


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## rmwilliamsjr

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> I am going to wait a few minutes before I respond. I don't quite know what you are getting at in the movie.





> And the big issue for me is why the South lost if they were on God's side? Was Jackson faith in an historical, biblical God either misplaced because God is really like the Northern Unitarians preach? Or worse yet, where they all deluded and backwards, and there is no god and the issue is simply sociological and historical? What is the utility of Jackson's faith if he dies from a Southern bullet and the South lost?



from Religion and the American Civil War
from Chapter 8 titled "Stonewall Jackson and the Providence of God"
pg 200



> The primary duty of southern ministers and editors in 1865 and 1866 was to convince themselves and their congregations that God had not deserted the South. To accomplish this task, they assured their churches that the southern cause had been righteous, that their afflictions were God's chastisement rather than his judgment, and that God would eventually vindicate the South in some unknown way. The righteousness of the southern cause, the justice of God, and Confederate defeat could and would be reconciled.





> "Neither party expected for the war the magnitude or the duration which it has already attained. Neither anticipated that the cause of the conflict might cease with or even before the conflict itself should cease. Each looked for an easier triumph, and a result less fundamental and astounding. Both read the same Bible and pray to the same God, and each invokes His aid against the other. It may seem strange that any men should dare to ask a just God's assistance in wringing their bread from the sweat of other men's faces, but let us judge not, that we be not judged. The prayers of both could not be answered. That of neither has been answered fully. The Almighty has His own purposes."
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ---Abraham Lincoln, Second Inaugural Address, Saturday, March 4, 1865[2]
> 
> It seems just a little arrogant to claim any special or particular insight into God's will or God's intentions in history, the best I can offer is a little of what I´ve found is important in the history of our Church. So each class, each idea is explicitly labeled as 'I think' or 'I hope that or 'maybe you will find this useful'. As such it reveals a little more of myself then I am comfort with and will consciously and systematically attempt to walk a boundary between sharing and teaching, staying on the sharing side as much as I possibly can.[3] But the big point of the class is that God has a purpose for history and we ought to heed it's message, that the Church is of great importance to God and Church history is significant. Lincoln's warning in the light of:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Isa 55:8
> 
> 
> For my thoughts [are] not your thoughts, neither [are] your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
> 
> Isa 55:9
> 
> 
> For [as] the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> We should begin this class with humility and trepidation
Click to expand...

the introduction to my class notes on the History of American Presbyterianism, TofC is at: http://dakotacom.net/~rmwillia/hap0.html

my point is that like the movie God and Generals, the unCivil War leaves many questions unanswered for the faith, the closer you are theologically to Dabney or to Stonewall Jackson the more questions hauntingly remain asked yet unanswered this side of Judgment Day.


[Edited on 6-2-2005 by rmwilliamsjr]

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by rmwilliamsjr]

[Edited on 6-2-2005 by rmwilliamsjr]


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## Puritanhead

Yippie! I watched Gods and Generals again today... like I need to see it.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Sic semper tyrannus!


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## RamistThomist

Death to all Tyrants! That's the way I live; that's the way I think.

Now, to the movie:



> And the big issue for me is why the South lost if they were on God's side?



God allowed the South to lose to be chastened for their failure to reform slavery according to biblical guidelines. As I have mentioned in another thread, such a reform would have ended slavery. Israel was God's people, but he allowed them to lose. Pragmatism doesn't justify a historical conclusion.



> The South did fight to preserve the 'peculiar institution', slavery, abolitionists where Christians as well, although often Unitarians not Presbyterians



Yeah, and the north fought to free slaves. (roll eyes) Lincoln was a racist and a white-supremacist who despised black people. And lets not forget that most godly of abolitionists, John Brown: murderer of women and children.



> This issue is not going to go away



Amen! When a tyrant tells a group of people that they cannot govern themselves, memories often are quite good. As Jeff Davis said, "A question that is settled by violence or force of arms must always remain unsettled."

Ok, I think I understand what you are getting at. To be honest, some of the sentences were ambiguous in meaning.

You say you favor the South? Ok, I didn't understand at first. I didn't know where you were headed in the review.


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## RamistThomist

*Abe Lincoln's Double-Speak*

Lincoln on Secession:

Any people anywhere, being inclined and having the power, have the right to rise up and shake off the existing government and to form one that suits them better. Nor is this right confined to cases in which the people of an existing government may choose to exercise it. Any portion of such people that can, may make their own of such territory as they inhabit. More than this, a majority of any portion of such people may revolutionize, putting down a minority intermingling with or near them who oppose their movement

Lincoln on the floor of Congress, 13 January 1848
Congressional Globe, Appendix
1st Session 30th Congress, page 94


*Lincoln on Racial Equality: * 
I am not now, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in any way the social or political equality of the white and black races. I am not now nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of Negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor of intermarriages with white people. There is a physical difference between the white and the black races which will forever forbid the two races living together on social or political equality. There must be a position of superior and inferior, and I am in favor of assigning the superior position to the white man. 

Lincoln in his speech to Charleston, Illinois, 1858

*Lincoln on Slavery & Emancipation:*

We know that some Southern men do free their slaves, go North and become tip-top abolitionists, while some Northern Men go South and become most cruel masters. 

When Southern people tell us that they are no more responsible for the origin of slavery than we are, I acknowledge the fact. When it is said the institution exists, and it is very difficult to get rid of in any satisfactory way, I can understand and appreciate the saying. I surely will not blame them for not doing what I should not know what to do as to the existing institution. My first impulse would possibly be to free all slaves and send them to Liberia to their own native land. But a moment's reflection would convince me that this would not be best for them. If they were all landed there in a day they would all perish in the next ten days, and there is not surplus money enough to carry them there in many times ten days. What then? Free them all and keep them among us as underlings. Is it quite certain that this would alter their conditions? Free them and make them politically and socially our equals? My own feelings will not admit of this, and if mine would, we well know that those of the great mass of whites will not. We cannot make them our equals. A system of gradual emancipation might well be adopted, and I will not undertake to judge our Southern friends for tardiness in this matter. 


I acknowledge the constitutional rights of the States "” not grudgingly, but fairly and fully, and I will give them any legislation for reclaiming their fugitive slaves. 

The point the Republican party wanted to stress was to oppose making slave States out of the newly acquired territory, not abolishing slavery as it then existed. 

Lincoln in speeches at Peoria, Illinois 

I have no purpose directly or indirectly to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so. 

Lincoln's Inaugural Address

*Lincoln on Religion: * 


"My earlier views of the unsoundness of the Christian scheme of salvation and the human origin of the sriptures have become clearer and stronger with advancing years, and I see no reason for thinking I shall ever change them." 


1862 letter to Judge J.S. Wakefield, after the death of Willie Lincoln 

Any of his comments on Christianity pre-April 1865 ( I will grant his end of life conversion as a historical fact) must be interpreted in this context.

CHeck out Apologia Book Services


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## rmwilliamsjr

> God allowed the South to lose to be chastened for their failure to reform slavery according to biblical guidelines. As I have mentioned in another thread, such a reform would have ended slavery. Israel was God's people, but he allowed them to lose. Pragmatism doesn't justify a historical conclusion.



do you have a link to the other thread you mentioned?

about this quote.
thus far in my studies i found an essay "The Bible and Slavery" by Mark Noll in _Religion and the American Civil War_ extremely helpful pointing at Robert Breckridge as the major player in the South with this viewpoint pg. 59. I have read C. Hodge's analysis and would be interested in your references. I am still trying to finish my essays on the Civil War so it is a big deal for me just now.


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## RamistThomist

> _Originally posted by rmwilliamsjr_
> 
> 
> 
> God allowed the South to lose to be chastened for their failure to reform slavery according to biblical guidelines. As I have mentioned in another thread, such a reform would have ended slavery. Israel was God's people, but he allowed them to lose. Pragmatism doesn't justify a historical conclusion.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> do you have a link to the other thread you mentioned?
> 
> about this quote.
> thus far in my studies i found an essay "The Bible and Slavery" by Mark Noll in _Religion and the American Civil War_ extremely helpful pointing at Robert Breckridge as the major player in the South with this viewpoint pg. 59. I have read C. Hodge's analysis and would be interested in your references. I am still trying to finish my essays on the Civil War so it is a big deal for me just now.
Click to expand...


Eugene Genovese's work on the subject is masterful and completely destroyed liberal scholarship. Oddly enough, the link should be familiar to you--Dabney on Virginia 

A Consuming Fire: The Fall of the Confederacy in the Mind of the White Christian South.

I would also highly suggest Dr Joe Morecraft's lectures on Dabney available at Apologia Books.


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## rmwilliamsjr

i've skimmed Genovese. looks interesting. nice short book *grin*. busy with several Phd thesis this week, plus writing.

i did find these:
http://www.chalcedon.org/modules/content/index.php?id=8
Pastor Joe Morecraft's Chalcedon Church page
http://www.pointsouth.com/Merchant2...HRISTIAN&Category_Code=LECTURE&Store_Code=ABS
sales page for the tapes you recommended.
i'll blog your notes....thanks.


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## RamistThomist

Morecraft is one of my heroes.


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## cornelius vantil

i am not white nor was i raised in southern culture (i consider tampa a colony of new york... if you live here you know what i mean) yet i am a die hard southern sympathiser! Stonewall Jackson is a man i hold in hisg esteem. 2 weeks ago i stood at manassas battle next to the statue of Jackson..it was one moment i have looked forward to for a long time.


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## RamistThomist

> _Originally posted by cornelius vantil_
> i am not white nor was i raised in southern culture (i consider tampa a colony of new york... if you live here you know what i mean) yet i am a die hard southern sympathiser! Stonewall Jackson is a man i hold in hisg esteem. 2 weeks ago i stood at manassas battle next to the statue of Jackson..it was one moment i have looked forward to for a long time.



I went to the Vicksburg Battlefield this spring. It was a purifying experience.


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## strangerpilgrim

All you fans of the admirable general ought to read the biography of him written by his wife. I have no idea the title, or where it could be gotten. I happened to stumble across it many years ago in the Bob Jones University library. This biography gives a different picture from all the others--which concentrate on his public life. His wife deals primarily with his private home life, his religious life and his letters. Very good.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

> _Originally posted by strangerpilgrim_
> All you fans of the admirable general ought to read the biography of him written by his wife. I have no idea the title, or where it could be gotten. I happened to stumble across it many years ago in the Bob Jones University library. This biography gives a different picture from all the others--which concentrate on his public life. His wife deals primarily with his private home life, his religious life and his letters. Very good.



There are two books by Mary Anna Jackson: _Memoirs of Stonewall Jackson by his Widow_ and _Life and Letters of Gen. Thomas J. Jackson (Stonewall Jackson)_. Both highly recommended!


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## VirginiaHuguenot




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## RamistThomist

One of the best scenes is at the eve of Fredericksburg in Gods and Generals

it is right before (or as) the Battle of Fredericksburg begins where Union general Lawrence Chamberlain is likening (well first, it is a misty morning as the Union troops are crossing the river into southern cannon fire) the crossing of the river to Caesar's crossing of the rubicon. He quotes a passage from a Roman Poet (a very good speech, btw) and ends the speech with,
"From now on, let war be our judge." And then Jacskon's cannons open fire. 
After that inital blast, Chamberlain concludes,
Hail Caesar, we who are about to die, salute you!
Right when he says that the Southern guns go crazy while Wagner is plauing in the background


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Stonewall Jackson's Book of Maxims is a very good read.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

This is a compilation of places I have visited which relate to Stonewall Jackson's life or honor his memory:

Clarksburg, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Birthplace

Jackson's Mill, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Boyhood Home

United States Military Academy, West Point, New York

Virginia Military Institute, Lexington, Virginia

Stonewall Jackson House, Lexington, Virginia

Lexington, Virginia Presbyterian Church

Harper's Ferry, West Virginia

Jackson's Crossing, Skyline Drive, Shenandoah National Park, Virginia

Manassas National Battlefield Park, Manassas, Virginia

Stonewall Jackson's Headquarters, Winchester, Virginia

Antietam National Battlefield, Sharpsburg, Maryland

Richmond National Battlefield Park, Richmond, Virginia

Monument Avenue, Richmond, Virginia

Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, Virginia

Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, Virginia

Stonewall Jackson Shrine, Guinea Station, Virginia

Stonewall Jackson Memorial Cemetery, Lexington, Virginia

Stonewall Jackson Museum, Strasburg, Virginia

Jackson's Crossing Family Restaurant, Luray, Virginia

And some places I look forward to visiting, dv:

Stonewall Jackson Inn Bed & Breakfast, Harrisonburg, Virginia

Stonewall Jackson Hotel, Staunton, Virginia

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## PuritanCovenanter

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> This is a compilations of places I have visited which relate to Stonewall Jackson's life or honor his memory:
> 
> Clarksburg, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Birthplace
> 
> Jackson's Mill, West Virginia, Stonewall Jackson's Boyhood Home
> 
> United States Military Academy, West Point, New York
> 
> Virginia Military Institute, Lexington, Virginia
> 
> Stonewall Jackson House, Lexington, Virginia
> 
> Lexington, Virginia Presbyterian Church
> 
> Harper's Ferry, West Virginia
> 
> Jackson's Crossing, Skyline Drive, Shenandoah National Park, Virginia
> 
> Manassas National Battlefield Park, Manassas, Virginia
> 
> Stonewall Jackson's Headquarters, Winchester, Virginia
> 
> Antietam National Battlefield, Sharpsburg, Maryland
> 
> Richmond National Battlefield Park, Richmond, Virginia
> 
> Monument Avenue, Richmond, Virginia
> 
> Museum of the Confederacy, Richmond, Virginia
> 
> Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville, Virginia
> 
> Stonewall Jackson Shrine, Guinea Station, Virginia
> 
> Stonewall Jackson Memorial Cemetery, Lexington, Virginia
> 
> Stonewall Jackson Museum, Strasburg, Virginia
> 
> Jackson's Crossing Family Restaurant, Luray, Virginia
> 
> And some places I look forward to visiting, dv:
> 
> Stonewall Jackson Inn Bed & Breakfast, Harrisonburg, Virginia
> 
> Stonewall Jackson Hotel, Staunton, Virginia



You wonderful fanatic.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

> _Originally posted by puritancovenanter_
> You wonderful fanatic.



Not a fanatic, just a fan.  Well, ok, guilty as charged!


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## Peter

Julia Jackson (Stonewall's daughter)
If you look closely at the pennant of St. Andrew's cross ...






notice the writing around the cross?

[Edited on 8-27-2005 by Peter]


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Does it say FCC&C? Very nice pic. 

Mort Kunstler says that he specifically drew this picture of Julia Jackson as a baby to make an allusion to the St. Andrew's Cross.



> As a fitting tribute to the Jackson family, I deliberately used a square composition - shape of the Confederate battle flag used by his troops. The perspective lines from a St. Andrews cross. Baby Julia is at the center with her adoring parents gazing down at her. In some ways it is a sequel to my painting, Until We Meet Again.


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## Peter

I'm not sure, I would assume?


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## PuritanCovenanter

> _Originally posted by Peter_
> Julia Jackson (Stonewall's daughter)
> If you look closely at the pennant of St. Andrew's cross ...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> notice the writing around the cross?
> 
> [Edited on 8-27-2005 by Peter]


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## VirginiaHuguenot

That's just awesome!


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## matt01

I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone else mentioned it, but has anyone heard about a sequel to "Gods and Generals"? Wasn't there supposed to be three movies?


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## VirginiaHuguenot

> _Originally posted by matthew_
> I didn't read the whole thread, so forgive me if someone else mentioned it, but has anyone heard about a sequel to "Gods and Generals"? Wasn't there supposed to be three movies?



That's right. I'm not sure if it's been mentioned in this thread but the last move of the trilogy is supposed to be _Last Full Measure_.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Happy birthday to Stonewall Jackson!


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## Ivan

Indeed, happy birthday to a great man of God!!


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## RamistThomist

O, for more to rise up!


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## Puritanhead

> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> Happy birthday to Stonewall Jackson!


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## Puritanhead

I planted a cotton Confederate flag in the ground at the site where Jackson's hand is buried in 2001... I forget exactly where it is at in Virginia-- somewhere off I-95... it's in middle of no where in vicinity of Chancellorsville.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

> _Originally posted by Puritanhead_
> I planted a cotton Confederate flag in the ground at the site where Jackson's hand is buried in 2001... I forget exactly where it is at in Virginia-- somewhere off I-95... it's in middle of no where in vicinity of Chancellorsville.



Cool -- Ellwood!

[Edited on 1-20-2006 by VirginiaHuguenot]


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Stonewall Jackson died on May 10, 1863.


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## fivepointcalvinist

not that this is important really but i am related to this guy; dont know much about him though...


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## Puritanhead

*Today in History - the Untimely Death of Stonewall Jackson*

May 10 - Today in History: The Untimely Death of General "Stonewall" Jackson

from my blog... scroll down past my introduction / biographical sketch.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Stonewall Jackson was born on January 21, 1824 in what is now Clarksburg, West Virginia.


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## Pergamum

Jacob;

You wrote about "reforming slavery according to biblical guidelines..."


In our day and age, what would a reformed slavery look like?








I visted Jackson's home 3 years ago. Interesting. He did much to promote "camp meetings" in their truest in their encamped armies and there seemed to be a large number of conversions during the war among the troops. I know a civil war reenactor who plays a chaplain and he has collected many of the old tracts from the south. Good solid stuff.


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## Richard King

Draught Horse said:


> I went to the Vicksburg Battlefield this spring. It was a purifying experience.




This reminded me...years ago, (many, many, many years ago) I played on a small college football team from Abilene TX and we played a team called Millsaps in Jackson MS. 
I remember on the way home our coach had our bus stop at the Vicksburg Battlefield and he and another coach who was a history buff had the entire team get out and walk the battlefield and a cemetary. Of course our team was black guys, white guys, native Americans and hispanic guys etc. and we all got out and had a learning experience. 
It occurs to me now that if coach did that in this day and time he would probably be fired for committing an insensitive racist act.


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## No Longer A Libertine

Poimen said:


> Alright I will look into it. I would have seen it already but the reviews were not that favorable. Maybe because it was so openly Christian?


Openly Christian and produced by Ted Turner seems like an oxymoron.


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## No Longer A Libertine

God must have ordained the fall of Jackson knowing full well his talents and courage might have severed the South from the North eternally and our republic was planned with the destiny of being united for some other purpose in the future.

I have a high regard for Southern history and think the cause of states rights were indeed just matters to fight for but in hinesight I also recognize that the Union is stronger as a whole and not as two.

Foreign tyrants might have prevailed on our shores if we split our strengths and resources once and for all.

The CSA was not meant to be.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

_Stonewall Jackson -- The Black Man's Friend_ by Richard G. Williams, Jr.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

_Jackson and the Preachers_ by John W. Schildt


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## VirginiaHuguenot

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> _Stonewall Jackson -- The Black Man's Friend_ by Richard G. Williams, Jr.



I picked up a copy of this book last week at Stonewall Jackson's house in Lexington, VA. It is excellent -- highly recommended!


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