# Women Teaching at Bible Studies



## Tyrese (May 17, 2016)

Hello Friends,

I have a good question for you who are currently pastors and Church leaders. If you are either participating in a Bible study or hosting a home Bible study, what is the place of women who are Christians in the study? Can they teach? If so, under what circumstances? Can a man be present? We know that the Apostle Paul taught that a women should keep silent during the gathering of the Church, but what about independent and informal Bible studies that gather on days other than Sundays?

Another question that proceeds from this one is prayer meetings. Is it only appropriate that the men pray? 1 Timothy 2:8 says, "I desire therefore that the men pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands,...". Does "men" here mean only the men should pray? Or, is this a more general command that all people (both men and women) should pray? Also, is prayer meeting the same thing as as the gathering of the people of God for worship?

Feel free to offer your thoughts on these matters!

Thanks, Tyrese


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## earl40 (May 17, 2016)

The answers you get will depend how one reads....Ephesians 4:11-16

11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:


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## Parakaleo (May 18, 2016)

You came seeking a faithful response and I will answer you with what I believe to be sound doctrine that accords with righteousness.

A woman should not teach or take a prominent role in prayer at all if men are present. Consider the words of Paul to Timothy in 1 Timothy 2, as you have already referenced:



> I desire then that in every place the men should pray, lifting holy hands without anger or quarreling; likewise also that women should adorn themselves in respectable apparel, with modesty and self-control...



Men pray, women adorn. The word in the original is ανηρ meaning "man". Paul adds the word "likewise" to show the symmetrical relationship to what he wishes women to do _as opposed_ to men. A further text supporting head-covering. Paul continues:



> Let a woman learn quietly with all submissiveness. I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet.



You can't convince me that a woman teaching a Bible study--however informal--when men are present is satisfying the commandment that she remain quiet with all submissiveness. Anyone who has taught God's Word understands the authority involved. Godly women steer clear of such behavior, recognizing that Adam was formed first and was not deceived. In group prayer, the godly woman also takes a submissive and quiet demeanor. And this is beautiful in God's sight.


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## tangleword (May 18, 2016)

I would tend to say it is okay, if it is okay for an unordained man to teach it, than it is for a woman, though it might not be wise as to be a stumbling block. it has been discussed a lot recently related to Sunday School classes. Mortification of Spin had an episode on that. I think Frame has a good summary on the issue, which seems to be from a PCA report on it: 
http://frame-poythress.org/may-women-teach-adult-sunday-school-classes/


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## Jack K (May 18, 2016)

In some Bible studies, the leader will teach. In others, the leader only organizes or gets a discussion started. So even if you establish that women ought not to teach men in the church, you have to decide whether or not what happens in a particular Bible study is teaching.

Among other responsibilities, my church restricts preaching, eldership, and mixed-group teaching to men. But when it comes to an in-home Bible study not led by an elder who's officially teaching, it allows more wiggle room. My previous church, a PCA congregation, was more restrictive but also tended to organize each Bible study group around a particular elder from the start. Both churches would have no problem with a woman fully participating in spoken-aloud group prayer.


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## Parakaleo (May 18, 2016)

How do you go from the position the paper presents to "it is okay, if it is okay for an unordained man..."?

The paper's conclusion is:



> ...granted the many things “Sunday School” can mean, your committee is unable to say that women should never use their general-office teaching gifts in a mixed group. There may be occasions such as the Priscilla-Aquila-Apollos discussion where the insight of a woman is much to be desired and where there is no confusion created between the general office and the special office.



Going from that highly-qualified, carefully worded statement to "if it is okay for an unordained man" is a quantum leap. Helpfully, some practical application is given at the end of the paper that addresses the dangers of making such leaps:



> I Tim. 2 stresses the attitude of women in the church, that they are not to be seeking or claiming inappropriate authority over others, but responding in quietness and submission to the teaching authorities. It is not easy to maintain such quietness and humility while at the same time teaching others.



If we're talking about typical Sabbath School or group Bible Study teaching, I would call it impossible.


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## Toasty (May 18, 2016)

Tyrese said:


> Hello Friends,
> 
> I have a good question for you who are currently pastors and Church leaders. If you are either participating in a Bible study or hosting a home Bible study, what is the place of women who are Christians in the study? Can they teach? If so, under what circumstances? Can a man be present? We know that the Apostle Paul taught that a women should keep silent during the gathering of the Church, but what about independent and informal Bible studies that gather on days other than Sundays?
> 
> ...



They can teach if it is a Bible study for women only. 

They can teach if it is a Bible study for children only.


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## jwithnell (May 18, 2016)

If the mixed class is a ministry of the church, it should always be taught by an elder or someone assigned by an elder (who ultimately bear responsibility for our care.) A one-off "this week only" when a woman has a peculuar knowledge of the topic, perhaps. We've had that happen with missionary-related sessions. I go back and forth on my auditory participation in prayer sessions.


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## Tom Hart (May 18, 2016)

I believe the Scriptures speak for themselves on this matter. 1 Tim 2 is unavoidably clear, as are other passages dealing with the appropriate roles of men and women.

I would urge you to consider also, when did women in church leadership (even leading Bible studies) even become an issue? Would it have been even conceivable to the Reformers? It is doubtful! There is simply not enough support in the Bible for women in leadership over men, and there is much against it.

This will obviously offend many. But the church cannot be expected to resemble the world! In the world you may have a female political leader or a female CEO, but I venture to say that God does not approve of a female leader in the church.


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## vchia (May 18, 2016)

Tom Hart said:


> I believe the Scriptures speak for themselves on this matter. 1 Tim 2 is unavoidably clear, as are other passages dealing with the appropriate roles of men and women.
> 
> I would urge you to consider also, when did women in church leadership (even leading Bible studies) even become an issue? Would it have been even conceivable to the Reformers? It is doubtful! There is simply not enough support in the Bible for women in leadership over men, and there is much against it.
> 
> This will obviously offend many. But the church cannot be expected to resemble the world! In the world you may have a female political leader or a female CEO, but I venture to say that God does not approve of a female leader in the church.



Amen! If I may add a word from Lloyd-Jones:

"In many ways the root trouble, even among good Evangelicals, is our failure to heed the plain teachings of Scripture. We accept what Scripture teaches as far as our doctrine is concerned; but when it comes to practice, we very often fail to take the Scriptures as our only guide. When we come to the practical side we employ human tests instead of Scriptural ones. In stead of taking the plain teachings of the Bible, we argue with it. ‘Ah yes’, we say, ‘since the Scriptures were written times have changed’.

Dare I give an obvious illustration? Take the question of women preaching, and being ordained to the full ministry. The apostle Paul, in writing to Timothy (1 Tim 2:11-15), prohibits it directly. He says quite specifically that he does not allow a women to teach or preach. ‘Ah yes’, we say, as we read that letter, ‘He was only thinking of his own age and time; but you know times have changed since then, and we must not be bound. Paul was thinking of certain semi-civilized people in Corinth and places like that’. But the Scripture does not say that. It says, ‘Let the women learn in silence with all subjection, but I suffer not a woman to teach nor usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence’. ‘Ah, but that was only temporary legislation’, we say. Paul puts it like this: ‘For Adam was first formed, the Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. Notwithstanding, she shall be saved in child bearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety’.

Paul does not say that it was only for the time being; he takes it right back to the Fall and shows that it is an abiding principle. It is something that is true, therefore, of the age in which we live. But thus you see, we argue with Scripture. Instead of taking its plain teaching, we say that times have changed-when it suits our thesis we say it is no longer relevant’. . . .*If you want to avoid terrible disillusionment at the day of judgment, face Scripture as it is. Do not argue with it, do not try to manipulate it, do not twist; face it, receive it and submit to it whatever the cost.*" (Jones, David Martyn. Studies in the Sermon on the Mount. Grand Rapids: Eerdmans, 1959.)


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## lynnie (May 18, 2016)

I wear a head covering, and in a small group setting midweek feel completely free to pray and join in the discussion about the bible if I think I have something to add. 1 Cor 11:5 is crystal clear that women were praying and prophesying while wearing a headcovering. Because scripture does not contradict scripture, I don't think their "prophecy" was public preaching or teaching men or being elders or deacons. But if the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy, and Phillip had four daughters who prophesied, perhaps they talked about the Lord in less formal settings and that included "from house to house".

The following opinion is my personal thoughts, take it or leave it. I think a lot of men feel a vague uncomfortable feeling with women in those settings and think it is because the women are speaking out loud in front of men. I think they accurately discern something is amiss, but misdiagnose it. I think the problem is lack of head coverings. And I don't mean to derail your thread and this has been debated to death on other threads....but visible symbols of invisible realities are more than just baptism and communion- Paul commanded headcoverings. And I think if the women wore them, it would "feel" more appropriate and acceptable. I don't want to come off like some fuzzy feely intuitive subjective charismatic, but I don't know how to articulate it better. The problem isn't the women praying or talking about a bbile verse in small group, the problem is the lack of headcoverings. Like I said, just my opinion.


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## Tyrese (May 21, 2016)

Thanks for all your contributions! There's much here to think about. Thanks again


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## TylerRay (May 21, 2016)

I think the older Reformed view would be that such studies should only be taught by the ministers of the Gospel. "Conventicles" was the word used for meetings which were not sanctioned by the church, and they were only approved when a church was in an unsettled state.


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