# Jacob & Joseph's sons



## Preach (Mar 1, 2006)

In the latter part of Genesis, Joseph arises to 2nd in power in Egypt. He marries an Egyptian and they have two children (Ephraim and Manassah).

Then, after the reconciliation with his brothers, Jacob brings his whole clan down to Egypt. 

The Bible says that Pharaoh asked Jacob how old he was and Jacob replied that he was 130 years. Then, 17 years pass and Jacob (at the age of 147) is about to die.

He calls in his sons for the final blessing. During that time, it seems Jacob acts as if he had never set eyes upn Joseph's sons before. The text ceertainly seems to read that way.

In addition, the Bible says that after the blessing, Jacob takes the Ephraim and Manassah off of Jacob's knees (presumably they were there to be blessed).

Question #1: Is it possible that Jacob never set eyes upon his grandchildren in the seventeen years he was in Egypt? Or does the text read another way? What am I missing?

Question #2: Do we know for sure that Joseph's two sons were born before Jacob arrived? Because if they were born before he arrived, and the Genesis passages seem to be in chronological order at this point, how do we explain two young men (at least seventeen if not in their twenties) sitting on a dying man's lap? This is conceivable (it happens frequently with teenagers sitting on granpa's lap). But the text seems to read that Joseph took them off Jacob's lap.

How can this be explained? Why would a father lift (if this is not too much of an assumption) his grown sons off of Jacob's lap?

Thanks.


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## turmeric (Mar 1, 2006)

When he asked who they were, it might have been just a formality, as in "Who gives this bride..." You know the preacher knows who, he has to have seen Dad at the wedding rehearsal at least.


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## Contra_Mundum (Mar 1, 2006)

We don't know exactly how old they were. I don't think the boys were placed _in Jacob's lap_. The KJV reads, "from between his knees." In other words, they came right up in the face of a seated Jacob. Jacob's eyesight is failing (v. 10). Perhaps he does not know who is with Joseph until they are permitted to come close enough. I doubt it was the first time ever he saw them.

I think it most likely that Meg has hit very close to the mark. This is far more formal a scene than we are accustomed to. This is not just "meeting your grandpa." This is the time for acknowledging Joseph's birthright--the double portion of inheritance in Israel--to be given to his two sons. Jacob _feels_ for the boys heads, and reverses his hands. Joseph seems to be annoyed at this (v. 18), assuming his father can't tell who is who: "Maybe dad's confused as well as blind!" But Jacob knows what he is doing (vv. 14, 19).


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## SolaScriptura (Mar 1, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> But Jacob knows what he is doing



I wish that I knew what I am doing.


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## Pilgrim (Mar 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> ...



 :bigsmile:


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Mar 2, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> We don't know exactly how old they were. I don't think the boys were placed _in Jacob's lap_. The KJV reads, "from between his knees." In other words, they came right up in the face of a seated Jacob. Jacob's eyesight is failing (v. 10). Perhaps he does not know who is with Joseph until they are permitted to come close enough. I doubt it was the first time ever he saw them.
> 
> I think it most likely that Meg has hit very close to the mark. This is far more formal a scene than we are accustomed to. This is not just "meeting your grandpa." This is the time for acknowledging Joseph's birthright--the double portion of inheritance in Israel--to be given to his two sons. Jacob _feels_ for the boys heads, and reverses his hands. Joseph seems to be annoyed at this (v. 18), assuming his father can't tell who is who: "Maybe dad's confused as well as blind!" But Jacob knows what he is doing (vv. 14, 19).


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## Preach (Mar 2, 2006)

Thanks. The responses sound right.


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