# Identify this Sotierology



## Sonoftheday (Nov 20, 2007)

I was having a discussion with a man of God whom i know and love lately over sotierology. I told him I hold to the reformed position, or Calvinism. To which he said he held to TUIP but not L. He then presented a view which is not TUIP and I was curious if there is a name for this teaching, if he got this teaching from well known preachers or if it is a misunderstanding on his own part. It goes like this.

When Jesus died on the cross he paid for every sin for every person except the sin of Unbelief. He made the claim that unbelief is the sin which is called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. He said that since Christ paid for every other sin we have to believe then we go to Heaven, but those who do not believe go to Hell for thier unbelief. I think if pressed on the issue he would say that it is the Holy Spirit who calls the elect whom God chose from before time, so perhaps he is a 4-pointer. 

I know that John Macarthur Jr. makes the case quite convincingly that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unbelief after being presented with truth from the Holy spirit. The real problems I see with this teaching is it says that God forgives our former unbelief just because we believe now, and not because it was placed on Christ. Anyways I am just curious as to where this doctrine comes from and if it has a name. Thank you.


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## RamistThomist (Nov 20, 2007)

> 1.He made the claim that unbelief is the sin which is called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
> 
> 2. When Jesus died on the cross he paid for every sin for every person except the sin of Unbelief.



Statement 2 is dependent on Statement 1. Unfortunately for him, both of these propositions are *assertions.* He has just begged the question. Don't grant him these assertions and he doesn't have a leg to stand on.


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## Jim Johnston (Nov 20, 2007)

> When Jesus died on the cross he paid for every sin for every person except the sin of Unbelief.



Then salvation is dependent upon my believing.

God met us 99% of the way, he needs us to go that extra 1%.

I can save dead men. I made a potion which grants them life, they just need to get out of the grave by theirselves and come and get it. My potion does everything for them except get them out of the grave.

And, if I sin by not believing on days 1 - 10,000 of my life, then I have (at least) 10,000 violations of divine law. How does this get taken care of? How does God remain just? All sin must be paid for. Justice must be done. So, how does my 10,000 sins get paid for, and by who? Perhaps a brief stint in hell?


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## christiana (Nov 20, 2007)

All my sins were paid for at the cross, past, present and future sins!

'Lord, I believe, Help Thou my unbelief!'

The sins of the elect have been paid for, yet we do at times suffer doubt and unbelief! We pray for His forgiveness to restore the joy of our salvation!


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## Sonoftheday (Nov 21, 2007)

What would you do if this was the sotierology of your Pastor/Elder? Or the elder of another congregation but you know him?

How do you go about approaching an obvious error, such as this one, in an elders Theology?


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## toddpedlar (Nov 21, 2007)

Sonoftheday said:


> What would you do if this was the sotierology of your Pastor/Elder?
> 
> How do you go about approaching an obvious error, such as this one, in an elders Theology?



Take him privately aside and discuss the issue, with Scripture. If he is unwilling to discuss it with you, then you have a larger problem on your hands.


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## panta dokimazete (Nov 21, 2007)

Sonoftheday said:


> I was having a discussion with a man of God whom i know and love lately over sotierology. I told him I hold to the reformed position, or Calvinism. To which he said he held to TUIP but not L. He then presented a view which is not TUIP and I was curious if there is a name for this teaching, if he got this teaching from well known preachers or if it is a misunderstanding on his own part. It goes like this.
> 
> When Jesus died on the cross he paid for every sin for every person except the sin of Unbelief. He made the claim that unbelief is the sin which is called Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. He said that since Christ paid for every other sin we have to believe then we go to Heaven, but those who do not believe go to Hell for thier unbelief. I think if pressed on the issue he would say that it is the Holy Spirit who calls the elect whom God chose from before time, so perhaps he is a 4-pointer.
> 
> I know that John Macarthur Jr. makes the case quite convincingly that Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is unbelief after being presented with truth from the Holy spirit. The real problems I see with this teaching is it says that God forgives our former unbelief just because we believe now, and not because it was placed on Christ. Anyways I am just curious as to where this doctrine comes from and if it has a name. Thank you.



Sounds like a quasi-Amyraldianism...


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## Wannabee (Nov 22, 2007)

Sounds like his buggy and horsey aren't connected quite right.


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## fredtgreco (Nov 22, 2007)

This is the soteriological system of old-style Dispensationalism. Get yourself a copy of Chafer's systematic theology and you will see this kind of "4 point" theology best expressed. Chafer is quite clear and gives Biblical references.

I disagree with him, but he makes his case in a clear fashion.


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