# The Catholic Church's view on the death penalty



## Pergamum (Mar 24, 2015)

How did the current position of the Catholic Church opposing the death penalty come about? Is it recent? Do they appeal to any medieval support? At what point did they become against the death penalty, and has the Pope spoken Ex Cathedra and officially on this subject, such that Catholics must agree on this point as the official doctrine of the Church?


----------



## RamistThomist (Mar 24, 2015)

Vatican.II.

The Pope has not spoken ex cathedra on this, nor will he. It's too easy to falsify as the official teaching of the church.

I strongly recommend you read Malachi Martin's _Windswept House_. He shows how the Vatican used sex magick around the time of Vatican II, and the rest is history.


----------



## Pergamum (Mar 24, 2015)

That book is fiction. Did the author claim that much of it was true?


----------



## RamistThomist (Mar 24, 2015)

Pergamum said:


> That book is fiction. Did the author claim that much of it was true?



That's where it gets...interesting. Supposedly Malachi Martin had a conversation with a former pope on the pope's deathbed (or he was standing outside the door and heard the conversation) about the final secret of Fatima and if it isn't obeyed/revealed/whatever, doom will come to the RCC or to the world. I have some friends who knew Martin and supposedly Martin told them the "secret." They won't tell me for some reason. 

Martin was an insider and writes from an insider's perspective. Yes, the book is fiction, but he just changed the names (moreso in his novel _Vatican_).


----------



## Pergamum (Mar 24, 2015)

Hmmm, I might have to read him then. If you run across the final secret of Fatima, private message me, okay!


----------



## Peairtach (Mar 24, 2015)

Catholic Church and capital punishment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


----------



## MichaelNZ (Mar 24, 2015)

I remember when I was a traditional papist, I was told there are three situations where killing is permitted: 1) in self defence, 2) in a just war and 3) capital punishment. But since the 1960s and Vatican II, the Romish "church" has done an about-face on many issues. 

Regarding _Windswept House_, I have read it and have come across this list from a traditional Romanist website that supposedly gives the real names of the characters in the novel. I read that Martin combined two Satanic rituals to get the description for the ritual at the beginning of the book.


----------



## Pergamum (Mar 24, 2015)

Wow.....I'd like to hear more about this Windswept House book. I was interested...then thought the writer was probably a kook...but now I am interested again. Any proof that the author wasn't just a kook?


----------



## MichaelNZ (Mar 24, 2015)

Malachi Martin was a Jesuit priest from Ireland. He served as secretary under Augustin Cardinal Bea from 1958 to 1964, when he left the Jesuit order and moved to New York in 1965. You can read more about him on his Wikipedia article. I've read _Windswept House _and part of _Hostage to the Devil_, which is a collection of stories about exorcisms.


----------



## RamistThomist (Mar 25, 2015)

And his book on the Jesuits is fantastic.


----------



## Pergamum (Mar 25, 2015)

Ok, I broke down and bought two of his books...and then ended up googling about the "third secret of Fatima" for awhile.


----------



## waltongreen (Mar 25, 2015)

Same. Also, I found a PDF of Windswept House: https://archive.org/details/WindsweptHouseAVaticanNovel


----------



## MichaelNZ (Mar 27, 2015)

With regard to the Third Secret of Fatima, the Vatican revealed it in 2000. However, some traditionalists do not believe that what the Vatican revealed was the not the _real_ Third Secret, which still remains hidden. Some traditionalists speculate that there is something in it about the change in the Mass (from the old Tridentine Mass in Latin to the new Mass of Paul VI, which is usually in the vernacular) and opine that the modernist hierarchy wouldn't want that out there. 

There is a book about the hidden Third Secret by Italian journalist Antonio Socci, called The Fourth Secret of Fatima.


----------

