# Battling the Concept of Forgiveness



## jbergsing (Dec 14, 2013)

I often wonder if I'm alone in the struggle with the idea that I'm forgiven for all my sins, past, present and future. It as mainly the thought that I simply sent "good enough" that pulled me away from my church family. I've been saved since 1995 and I still battle with it. I guess that's why God gave us David's story. Honestly though, sometimes that's not even very reassuring. 

Does anyone else struggle with this?


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## a mere housewife (Dec 14, 2013)

Mr. Bergsing, I think that phrase in the creed is one of the most incredible (both in the sense of amazing and difficult to believe) statements that can be made on earth: 'I believe in the forgiveness of sins.' Caspar Olevianus says that 'there is nothing more difficult than to believe the forgiveness of sins' after explaining it this way:



> I believe that whatever is and is called sin -- whether it be original sin in the form of that transgression in Adam’s loins and the consequent corruption that I carry around in the flesh, or actual sin in the form of the wicked thoughts, words, and deeds that arise out of original sin -- I believe, I say, that through faith, by which I am and remain engrafted into Christ, all of that is forgiven me by the gracious goodness of God. God does this in such a way that He erases all memory of both guilt and punishment, just as if I had never sinned or had no sin. Therefore, I trust that already now I am blessed.



I also loved what Peter Martyr Vermigli said on this point:


> . . because of our natural corruption -- we would step back from these promises of God, this offered mercy, this proposed remission of sins, as something worthless and incredible. Such blessings are alien to us. . . . we are like moles suddenly confronted with the light of day.



This must be why faith itself is the victory that overcomes the world. It must overcome our own unbelief, in the lifelong experience of our hourly sin.

'But you are a God ready to forgive, gracious and merciful, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love, and did not forsake them.' (Nehemiah 9:17)

‘Whoever wants the blessings he offers accepts them; faith consists in receiving the mercy offered us by God himself.’ (Peter Martyr Vermigli)

I draw much comfort from Christ instructing his disciples to forgive even if they were offended against seventy times seven. If He wants us to have that nature, then so does He.


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## Hemustincrease (Dec 14, 2013)

jbergsing said:


> often wonder if I'm alone in the struggle with the idea that I'm forgiven for all my sins, past, present and future.



No, you are not alone in that struggle. The key for me has been to set my focus outside of myself (I mean to say not viewing myself apart from Christ.......I don’t mean to ignore all self examination) and fully upon Christ. If we look only at our own hearts/lives during times of doubt, _we will find_ a zillion just reasons as to why God should not forgive us. (I surely do at any rate.) However, if we look to Christ and Him crucified for sinners, we will find more than mercy and grace (as amazing as that is). We will find that God’s own justice demands that every sinner united with Christ be completely forgiven and washed perfectly clean by the blood of the lamb. 

"My sin, oh, the bliss of this glorious thought!
My sin, not in part but the whole,
Is nailed to the cross, and I bear it no more,
Praise the Lord, praise the Lord, O my soul!"


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## sevenzedek (Dec 14, 2013)

I struggle with this too. I always have.

Lately, I have been blessed by thinking through the Gospel of John. Do you remember the story of the woman caught in very act of adultery in John 8? Do you realize that the reason why the Pharisees brought this woman to Jesus was so that they could accuse him of not keeping the law of Moses? They must have known that he was a merciful man in order for them to suppose that they might have an occasion to accuse Jesus of such a thing.

I am convinced that we saints will stumble all the way to glory like the man in Proverbs 24:16 who falls down seven times (indicating complete, total depravity) and keeps on getting back up! We may often wonder how we, being so sinful, could ever be saved, but we keep going to God and clinging to Christ in order to obtain from him a foreign righteousness (Philippians 3:9).

Christians need a ruthless boldness to suppose that they can appear clean before a holy God, and Jesus offers this to us (1 John 4:17). The measure of our weakness in this struggle is the measure of the boldness we need in order to continue the fight of faith. Hopefully, the more scandalous we see the death of Christ on behalf sinners such as ourselves, the more boldness we might have to come boldly to the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need (Hebrews 4:16). He raised up a horn of salvation in the house of David (i.e. Jesus) so that we might serve him without fear (Luke 1:69, 74).


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## jandrusk (Dec 14, 2013)

No, brother I do not think you are alone in this. What helps me when I"m struggling with it is reflecting on the amazing love of God that he would save and forgive a vile wretch like me. Remember we do have an enemy that is prowling around seeking whom he may devour. Need to keep using the armor of God as expounded in Ephesians 6.


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## irresistible_grace (Dec 14, 2013)

You are not alone. 

I was asking myself just yesterday if I was "just a professor" (while listening to Pilgrim's Progress).

I have been encouraged by the comments above.
If I'm ever in Indianapolis, I want to hug Heidi while I'm there.


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## Jack K (Dec 14, 2013)

Not only are you not alone, I will go so far as to say that it is THE central struggle of the Christian life. Our need is stronger faith in all that is ours in Christ, and that starts with believing we are truly forgiven. As we grow in that faith we see victory over other, secondary struggles.

Thankfully, the effectiveness of your forgiveness, or mine, is not based on how strongly we believe it. Even a little Spirit-given faith, if placed in Christ, is sufficient to make one God's forgiven child. Don't feel discouraged about starting with haltering, feeble faith. God has a reason for the measure of faith he has given you (perhaps teaching you to become more confident in Him rather than in yourself). Thank God for the faith you do have and trust that He who works in you has you exactly where He wants you, even as you long for the greater faith that will someday come.


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## Jack K (Dec 15, 2013)

I woke up this morning with these words from John Newton ringing in my head. They seem appropriate to this conversation.

Let us sing, though fierce temptation
threaten hard to bear us down!
For the Lord, our strong salvation,
holds in view the conqu'ror's crown;
He who washed us with his blood
soon will bring us home to God.


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## Peairtach (Dec 15, 2013)

We sometimes won't believe that we are forgiven until we see evidence of our salvation in the form of great strides in sanctification. 

Sent from my HTC Wildfire using Tapatalk 2


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## a mere housewife (Dec 15, 2013)

Jack, my pastor pointed out that the disciples ask for an increase of faith in connection with Christ's teaching on forgiveness. & Richard, while I can believe that to be so, in my own experience I feel unable to make progress in sanctification without assurance of forgiveness.

I was also very encouraged this morning, reading Leviticus 16 -- especially the emphasis on _all_ our (all my) sins:



> Thus he shall make atonement for the people of Israel and because of their transgressions, all their sins. And so he shall do for the tent of meeting, which dwells with them in the midst of their uncleannesses. . . .
> And Aaron shall lay both his hands on the head of the live goat, and confess over it all the iniquities of the people of Israel, and all their transgressions, all their sins. And he shall put them on the head of the goat and send it away into the wilderness by the hand of a man who is in readiness. The goat shall bear all their iniquities on itself to a remote area . . .


 (verses 16 & 21,22)

I remembered a sermon I heard on that passage: he made the point that the goat didn't come wandering back to the camp. Those iniquities were clean gone.

Jessica I would dearly love to be able to give and receive a hug someday .


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## Jack K (Dec 15, 2013)

a mere housewife said:


> Jack, my pastor pointed out that the disciples ask for an increase of faith in connection with Christ's teaching on forgiveness.



An excellent observation! I also appreciate your observation that if God wants us to forgive readily and repeatedly, he must do the same. Helpful stuff!


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## py3ak (Dec 22, 2013)

After making this post today, I realized it would have been very apt for this thread. Perhaps this excerpt is particularly so:


> For mercy, though it be a quality in us, yet it is a nature in God. Now that which is natural, there is no unwillingness nor weariness in doing of it: as the eye is not weary of seeing, the ear is not weary of hearing. Therefore, though our sins be never so great and many, his grace is all sufficient for the pardon of them.


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## thbslawson (Dec 22, 2013)

Same struggle here. You're not alone.


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