# Your Education



## Jake (Apr 29, 2012)

I am interested to hear from people of various professions who have completed at least one degree.

Where did you go to school (if you don't want to give specifics, is it a state school, Christian school, and so on) and what did you major in? This can be your associates/bachelors and higher levels as well.

What job(s) do you currently have? How has your education helped/hindered you?


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## Miss Marple (Apr 29, 2012)

I guess I show myself a latenik as I am the first response -

public schooled, some community college. So, no major, although I was working towards a teaching degree.

Current job: wife/mother/homeschooler - also, I work part time, scheduling.

Helped: Typing class was of great benefit to me. Also, French, which helped me to discover an aptitude for language, and greatly increased my English skills. Creative writing classes in English were of benefit to me. The Civics course I took in community college really educated me about how America works. My English 1A in Community College solidified my understanding of literature and how to critically appreciate it.

Hurt: The social structure at the public schools was miserable and very destructive, even when I was "on top" socially. Also I was introduced to a great deal of depravity of types that still shock me when I call them to mind. I was steeped in moral relativism, feminism, and Darwinism. I wasted tons of time.


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## Scottish Lass (Apr 29, 2012)

Public schools, then Georgia Southern University
Current/past jobs: Teaching English (same as my degree)
Help: I'm prepared to homeschool Grace as she grows, I edit works for people in ministry


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## MLCOPE2 (Apr 29, 2012)

Undergrad: B.A. in Bible and Counseling from Grand Canyon University (Christian Liberal-Arts school)
Current Job: General Contractor and Maintenance Supervisor for large Korean Church
Effect of Education on Employment: No direct effect. Indirectly an increased knowledge of the bible and how to use it to counsel/encourage/exhort my fellow man has impacted my ability to witness to unbelievers, strengthen believers, solve difficult problems, and deal with difficult people.


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## JennyG (Apr 29, 2012)

I have an MA Hons (a Scottish MA, that is...) in Ancient Greek and Moral Philosophy, but apart from some academic coaching most of the money I've ever earned came from music teaching and playing. So for years I actually thought my degree had been a bit superfluous. I learned better when I came to have a houseful of argumentative teenagers  and I don't just mean that humorously! One of them I homeschooled for a while and was glad to be able to do it. 
A degree like mine doesn't really point you in any practical direction (except as an academic) but I wouldn't change it.
I agree though,


Miss Marple said:


> The social structure at the public schools was miserable and very destructive,..... Also I was introduced to a great deal of depravity of types that still shock me when I call them to mind. I was steeped in moral relativism, feminism, and Darwinism. I wasted tons of time.


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## Rufus (Apr 29, 2012)

Public High School. I understand that a lot of people here dislike Public schools however if you have the ability to think for yourself than it's not really much of a problem. I actually dislike public schools more for their lack of teaching students how to think, and the lack of detail, instead we get told to believe muddled ideas that aren't fully developed.


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## Believer1993 (Apr 29, 2012)

Public High School
Currently at Michigan State University.
I actually consider it a blessing to be at a secular university. I have found a great church family, but even more important to my decision to remain here is that my mission field is all around me. I agree with Sean, as long as a Christian knows what they believe, why they believe it, and finds a good church family their faith should be fine. Plus I get the opportunity to share my faith many times a week


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 29, 2012)

Public schools (Pocahontas County High School, Go Warriors!) 
College: The University of Pittsburgh
Seminary: Pittsburgh Theological Seminary/Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

My college was ok, (mostly my fault) and I use it to some degree, but I could have had a much better education if I had taken advantage of opportunites. Seminary was excellent and I use it every day, even the stuff I learned at the liberal neo-orthodox seminary.


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## Jake (Apr 29, 2012)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Seminary was excellent and I use it every day, even the stuff I learned at the liberal neo-orthodox seminary.



What did you learn useful at PTS? What did you major in college and how did it help prepare you for seminary?

(I'm interested in the second question for any pastors who comment!)


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## jwithnell (Apr 29, 2012)

Public schools (as an unbeliever)

Georgia Southern (back when it was College. After coming to Christ, I seriously considered switching to a Reformed school but decided to stay with a wonderful congregation which was then forming)

I majored in history with a minor in philosophy and was working for newspapers through late high school and college. Having the broad liberal arts background was extremely helpful in my field which morphed over time from journalism to public affairs and am now (on a volunteer basis) doing a fair amount of design and web work. My job with the Forest Service gave me the training for three different wildland fire qualifications which I'm hoping to hold onto although I've been inactive for the last two seasons.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Apr 29, 2012)

Jake said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Seminary was excellent and I use it every day, even the stuff I learned at the liberal neo-orthodox seminary.
> ...



It's kind of cliche but I learned how liberals think and I actually had a very good Pastoral Theology professor at PTS, but if I had to do over again I would have left PTS earlier and spent more time at RPTS. But in God's providence He had me stay there for two 1/2 years. 

In college I majored in History (with an Eastern European focus) and while I learned a lot of neat stuff it did not really prepare for Seminary directly. I actually tell guys who have asked to major in English if they plan on going to Seminary. 

Pitt has a very good Jewish Studies department and I wish I had taken more advantage of that program. They have a couple Orthodox Jewish Rabbi's as adjuncts that teach Ancient Judaism and Talmudic Judaism and the like which I think would have been good to take, they also teach "Biblical" Hebrew which would have been helpful.


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## Jack K (Apr 29, 2012)

Bachelor of Journalism, University of Missouri.
- Then worked in TV news, becoming a newsroom manager.
Masters in Business Administration (MBA) with a marketing emphasis, Wake Forest University.
- Then worked in administration for a state college as marketing/communications manager.

Now a freelance writer.

My education was essential in preparing me for both previous careers. Currently, as a writer, there's less of a direct connection to my education. But I had to have the other careers first to develop the maturity and the bank account necessary to set out as a writer.

Education that directly prepares you for a particular trade or profession will typically end up feeling the most valuable later on, assuming you end up working in the field you studied.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 29, 2012)

Public schools through grade 12. B.A., M.Div., D.Min (Christian schools); M.A.O.M in leadership and a Certificate in Institutional Develop and Non-Profit Mgt (30 units) - secular, one private school, one public university. PhD in progress in Intellectual Christian Thought (nearly 3/4 coursework done). I pastored for 22 years and am CEO of a Christian Retirement Home. My education helped me think and argue more effectively and research exhaustively. Much of leadership is more "caught" than "taught," so I would not draw a direct correlation between formal education and job effectiveness. A degree is more of a "hazing" ritual to weed out the uncommitted than a preparation for a job.


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## Edward (Apr 29, 2012)

Undergraduate - UGA, Journaiism. Useful skills: ability to communicate clearly in writing, typing, and oral communication learned as a member of a speaking society. A lot of time wasted with no real benefit in 'core' classes unrelated to either my major or my interests. 

Law - Case Western Reserve, Cleveland. A great bunch of professors and a few that weren't. I took all the tax law courses and never used them. I took a bankruptcy course to fill a hole in my schedule, and ended up building a career around it.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 29, 2012)

Public Schools in Germany and US through 8th grade
Catholic High School
BS, Nuclear Engineering, RPI
MS, Electrical Engineering, Naval Postgraduate School
Master of Military Science, Marine Corps Command and Staff College
Continuous military education and training from 1990 to 2011
Currently enrolled at New Geneva Theological Seminary
Constantly taking new IT training classes

I am an Enterprise Architect for a Large IT company. It's hard to say how specific degrees have helped me except that some helped sharpen my technical understanding of the design process and how things worked while others gave me an appreciation for strategy and the dynamic of large organizations. Experience in various leadership roles throughout my Marine Corps career helped me to understand people as well as how to organize and plan large scale projects and get people to work together or how to architect people, processes, and systems to solve problems.

I think the thing I understand now that I didn't as a young man is that getting specific degrees or having strong academic performance is good as far as it goes but there are so many other factors that prepare you for where you end up. In other words, I'm not a big fan of kids spending a ton for a degree that they can get elsewhere even though the college or institution may not be as prestigious if the price is considerably less. I recently recommended to a friend that he not send his son to a private college and pay 5 times as much for the same degree. Performance and experience will be the key to later success.

Something that also hindered me later in life is not taking some of the social sciences, literature, philosophy, and theology as seriously as I do now. I wasted some hours in college I could have dedicated to more useful topics had I seen the value in them then that I do now. It took a long time to overcome a very utilitarian view of technical knowledge at the expense of despising some liberal arts that I've had to make up for later in life.


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## jwithnell (Apr 29, 2012)

Jack, I'm assuming Columbia? Great program. Same with Grady, Edward. How 'bout them Dawgs?


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## Jack K (Apr 29, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> Jack, I'm assuming Columbia? Great program.



Yes, of course.


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## kvanlaan (Apr 29, 2012)

Grammar School: Calvin Christian School, Dundas
High School: Hamilton District Christian Highschool
Undergrad Bachelor of Business (Int'l Bus. Maor): Oklahoma Baptist University - go Bison!
Masters of Business Leadership: University of South Africa (Incomplete - went on safari instead; shot two warthogs, one oryx, and a gold medal blesbok in Namibia - great choice!)

I am a financial planner and the education itself did not make such a huge difference, but the experiences that came with it, and the background that made working within the industry easier, both helped a bunch.


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## Mushroom (Apr 29, 2012)

And every financial planner knows, everything comes cheaper by the dozen!


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## reaganmarsh (Apr 29, 2012)

What job(s) do you currently have? How has your education helped/hindered you?

I'm a pastor. My studies have been invaluable. 

-B.A. in English from a William College College (2003). Overpriced but I learned a lot, and I used it when I was teaching middle and high school English. The background in literature and grammar has actually been very beneficial in terms of the amount of reading I did in seminary and continue to do weekly for preaching and writing. (And just for fun, my wife was also an English major so we took a lot of classes together and taught at the same time for a while.)
-M.A. in Theology (Systematic & Historical Theology emphasis) from SBTS (2008); M.Div. in Theology (Christian Ministries emphasis), on hold at present until we can scrounge up the money. I also took classes at NOBTS for 3 semesters. Seminary studies have been priceless and I wouldn't trade them for anything. 
-NANC biblical counseling certification in progress. I am loving this! Incredibly practical for normal ministry counseling and also is helping me sharpen my application skills in preaching. 



Jake said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Seminary was excellent and I use it every day, even the stuff I learned at the liberal neo-orthodox seminary.
> ...


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## hammondjones (Apr 30, 2012)

Winthrop University - BS Mathematics
Wake Forest University - MA Mathematics


I'm employed by a bank, but aside from the fact that you need a master's degree to get noticed around here, my studies in math have very little to do with my work. It was all of the computer programming courses that I was required to take that I actually use.


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## Constantlyreforming (Apr 30, 2012)

I have a Bachelor's Degree from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois from two subject areas:
-Business Management/Finance
-Human Resources

For 8 years I worked at a Public LIbrary as their Manager of Financial Services and Human Resources, using my degree well. I then went to the University of Illinois Champaign-Urbana to get my Master's in Library and Information Science...this is the #1 ranked school for this degree. I received it a few years ago, a year before the Library would eliminate my position and I was jobless.

I now work in Credit and Collections for a large pipe-producing company....love it.


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## FenderPriest (Apr 30, 2012)

I went to Auburn University and got a Bachelor's Degree with a double major in English and Philosophy. I've done a couple Master's Degree classes at Westminster Theological Seminary here in Philadelphia. I'm currently a computer technician. My degree helped me to think clearly and write well, geek out over cool ancient stuff, and seek to use those skills for the up-building of faith in Christ's people. I don't regret my degree, and wish more people would pursue the Liberal Arts for high education because knowing how to think is most important in any occupation the Lord calls someone in to.


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## Romans922 (Apr 30, 2012)

Constantlyreforming said:


> I have a Bachelor's Degree from Trinity International University in Deerfield, Illinois from two subject areas:
> -Business Management/Finance
> -Human Resources
> 
> ...



I have a Bachelor of Arts from Trinity as well in Bible (waste of an education), but I did learn a lot through personal study and study with friends. This is where I became a Calvinist, and then eventually reformed (notice the distinction). 

I also have a Master of Divinity from RTS Jackson.

I am now the Pastor of Christ Presbyterian Church (PCA) in Kansas City, MO.


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## Constantlyreforming (Apr 30, 2012)

dwebbers unite!


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## he beholds (Apr 30, 2012)

After public K-12, I got a Bachelors in English Ed from a Reformed Christian college. I taught English for a year, so that was helpful for that year. I homeschool my kiddos, so it is also helpful for that. In my husband's last semester we met in two English classes, so that was _extremely_ beneficial and cancels any regrets that the school debt might have caused. 

The best thing about my Christian college experience was not the classes but the people that you met in those classes. The teachers were smart and did convey a ton of information that will serve me and my kids, BUT it was their love for the Lord, his children, and their subjects that really made the experience worth it. And the same goes for roommates and floormates and friends and so on. Sure, a state school can be fine. But a Christian school--a legit one--makes forming Christian relationships easier.


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## Shawn Mathis (Apr 30, 2012)

Public High School (full class load)--Arvada West (Colorado)
Air Force Technical school (Electronic Warfare) (Biloxi, MS)
BS Electrical Engineering, major in electro-magnetic field/antenna design, (almost) minor in philosophy (Colorado University)
MDiv (115 credit hours with thesis paper) (RITS)
Mentorship under Dr. Coppes (Th.D from Westminster (EJ Young, Van Til, etc.)

I was an Air Force technician (F-16/15/4). Then electrical engineer. Now OPC minister.

My education has been immensely helpful, I think, because by God's grace I tried to learn and apply the basic training to all parts of life. Engineering school taught me patience (try doing a 12 page assignment on one math problem) and analytical skills. The philosophy classes helped me understand people who think differently than me (try taking their "multi-culturalism" classes!). I believe my logic class was invaluable and think it should be required for all high schoolers. 

I think the most valuable was the mentorship. I saw a patient man deal with very frustrating people. I also learned to think and write carefully and especially research issues in-depth. And as a pastor-to-be I learned exegesis by example and interaction.

I do miss not having some liberal arts training.


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## Gage Browning (Apr 30, 2012)

Dallas Baptist University - BA- Speech Communications...decided to get a degree in something I cared about... 
Went to DBU because I could go at night...since I went back to school while Married with kids....and working...
Job- Sales Manager


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## arapahoepark (May 1, 2012)

So far just now receiving my associates of arts...still aways to go


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## Siberian (May 2, 2012)

I went to public schools for K-12. I then did a B.A. in Intercultural Ministries at New Tribes Institute. That was specialized missionary training (Bible, Cross-Cultural Evangelism, teaching literacy, language and culture acquisition, etc.) and was vital when I was church planting in Northern Asia. I also did a M.Div. at Luther Rice Seminary. That was great training too; I took every class they offered in the languages and exegesis and as few "practical" classes as possible. The most helpful part of my master program was that I took the entire course while serving under the mentor-ship of a seasoned pastor.

Now I serve as an Assistant Pastor, primarily charged with teaching, preaching and discipleship work. I'm so thankful for my training.


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## VictorBravo (May 2, 2012)

Belgrade High School in Montana. There I learned welding, auto mechanics, machine shop, trigonometry, calculus, English, History, Chemistry, and football.

I still use all of that except football.

Montana Tech (aka Montana Institute of Mining Science and Technology)- geophysical engineering student for a year.

University of Montana, music (organ performance and composition) and physics major- 3 years. I still write music and play the organ--but never in church.

There was a summer trade school program I attended to become a certified dive instructor and professional diver. I had a great time doing that for a while, but I got tired of Southern California and moved back to Montana.

Montana State University--finally received my BS in Soil Science with emphasis in Soil Chemistry and Plant Physiology. I also fit in a French minor. I was a farmer, rancher, and also an agricultural researcher working on saline seep issues in Northern Montana. The credentials also allowed me to work in Iraq in the 80s as an agricultural advisor to the Iraqi ministry of Agriculture and a farm supervisor over a very large state-owned dairy farm near Tikrit. The people I met there and the memories I still have were worth the price of the degree.

Years went by, then off to the University of Montana School of Law--JD. I've been a lawyer for 20 years

Took a few classes at Western Reformed Seminary in Tacoma WA, which caused me to dig in and learn Greek and Hebrew on my own (I did not have time to take classes during the day).

Just a few years ago I went back to law school, this time the University of Washington School of Law, and received an LL.M. in Taxation. I use this a fair amount these days because part of my law practice involves tax law.

I can't say any of it was a waste of time, except for the occasional dud class. Looking back, I pretty much was very enthusiastic about every diversion and course of study I took. I was sort of a contrarian who refused to be pegged. I figured I was paying my money and I'd study what I wanted. I mostly worked while going to school, and in those days it was easy to pay as you go. 

Best lesson I ever learned: It doesn't particularly matter what field you pick to study. The most important thing is to obtain a level of mastery over it. That sense of mastery transfers to other endeavors and gives you an insight into the essentials that you should focus on.


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## Organgrinder (May 4, 2012)

I earned a Master's degree in Library Science from the University of North Texas in 2004. It was a mid-life upgrade for me at age 46. I got my first librarian position in 2006

My BA came from Dallas Baptist College in 1981. I went to that school looking for a wife and because I wanted a school that was like some kind of big happy Baptist Student Union. I found my dear wife there but my degree in art did little for me as a source for income. 

Earlier I attended a junior college and public schools. 

It astounds me that I'm now Reformed. I was unbelievably Arminian back at DBC. I would have never considered the OPC back then.


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## Wayne (May 4, 2012)

B.A. in Psychology from the University of Oklahoma, though I started out in chemistry and changed when I became a Christian in the middle of my sophomore year.

After two years as a medic in the army (1-AO), went to Westminster (Phila.) with the intent of going into counseling, but opted for the two-year M.A.R. degree, 
which I didn't quite finish until 20 years later. 

Moved back to OK and tried to make a living as a cabinetmaker, then fell into a career in the sign business and had my own business for about ten years.

Finally got serious about finishing the degree from WTS and exploring a call to ministry. Cheaper to go to Covenant and WTS allowed me to transfer the remaining 12 hours.

Then CTS wouldn't let me build on the WTS hours (those hours were too old), so I did the M.Div. nearly from scratch. The final year was thin, so I doubled up with Th.M. classes, 
graduating with the M.Div. and 4 -5 months later was appointed as director of the PCA Historical Center.

Loved the archival work so much I couldn't bring myself to set aside the time to finish the Th.M. thesis ["Linguistic & Literary Structures in Psalm 104"] until about 9 years later, but wound up graduating at the same time that my daughter graduated there.

Almost 200 hours of seminary and I still ain't smarts.

Most recently, I obtained standing as a Certified Archivist.

I keep toying with the idea of a doctorate, but would have to have just the right topic and would have to do it on the European model.


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## Rich Koster (May 5, 2012)

I have an AAS in Electrical/Electronic Technology from the CUNY system. It was my career for about 15 years, but with computer control and disposable consumer electronics, there is not much demand for a repair technician. I have not worked in my career field for the past 15 years. The last projects I worked on were RF testing on the AEGIS weapons system for the Navy and GPS satellite replacement constellation for the Air Force. My skills are useful for auto electrical system diagnostics, some appliance repair, stereo systems and rigging a lot of stuff, with parts laying around, people would normally toss out. I've used my test equipment to fix a furnace, water heater, answering machines and the like. With the new micro surface mount components being used, I don't even try to fix that kind of circuit board. It's just too small and tedious to do, on a kitchen table.


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## a mere housewife (May 5, 2012)

I hope it's okay to reply with the few other undegreed respondents -- I can't help throwing in another plug for my own profession.  I was majoring in English and History when my health broke down definitively (it had been threatening to for some time). I have since learned that while one ought to master the rules of English, no one who's ever graced the language has allowed the rules to master them -- and that I am no candidate for a historian. Current events leave me in tears, and time does little to change that. So I haven't been further educated. I have often wondered about trying to finish a degree; but my health hasn't changed enough for that to be practicable and (perhaps in part because of that providence) I have learned to value, more than anything else I could do, what I am doing now (housewife). I believe that the world doesn't need anything from me so much as it simply needs another peaceful home, loving wife, daughter, sister, faithful friend. So I am trying to learn to do those things, and they are far more challenging and demanding of every faculty I have (and many I don't) than anything else I have studied. I think everything I have studied is in some way useful.


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## Mushroom (May 5, 2012)

a mere housewife said:


> I hope it's okay to reply with the few other undegreed respondents -- I can't help throwing in another plug for my own profession.  I was majoring in English and History when my health broke down definitively (it had been threatening to for some time). I have since learned that while one ought to master the rules of English, no one who's ever graced the language has allowed the rules to master them -- and that I am no candidate for a historian. Current events leave me in tears, and time does little to change that. So I haven't been further educated. I have often wondered about trying to finish a degree; but my health hasn't changed enough for that to be practicable and (perhaps in part because of that providence) I have learned to value, more than anything else I could do, what I am doing now (housewife). I believe that the world doesn't need anything from me so much as it simply needs another peaceful home, loving wife, daughter, sister, faithful friend. So I am trying to learn to do those things, and they are far more challenging and demanding of every faculty I have (and many I don't) than anything else I have studied. I think everything I have studied is in some way useful.


And I for one, dear sister, can attest to the fact that you have mastered those arts you mention that apply to me and my family and everyone here on PB, by the grace of God, abundantly well. Our lives would be sorely lacking had you not been so diligent in your studies.


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## Tim (May 5, 2012)

he beholds said:


> But a Christian school--a legit one--makes forming Christian relationships easier.



Interesting point. Thanks for this, Jessi. We often speak of the curriculum, but forget the relationships.


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## jogri17 (May 5, 2012)

BA in French as a Second Language
BA Multidisciplinary: In Political Science and Theology

Both from Université Laval.

Graduated..... YESTERDAY!!!! 

My best piece of advice I got from an older gentleman, study what you're passionate about, if you're considering the ministry wait, do a secular BA (or Bsc) first than seminary, and do it at a secular school. You need to learn how to share the Gospel and interact with people with all sorts of beliefs and backgrounds. College is the time of academic thinking and reflection and not to be treated as a tool to merely get a degree. Enjoy the life and experiences and get involved in a good church


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## Curt (May 5, 2012)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> In college I majored in History (with an Eastern European focus) and while I learned a lot of neat stuff it did not really prepare for Seminary directly. I actually tell guys who have asked to major in English if they plan on going to Seminary.



My first Master's degree was in Eastern European History. At that time (many years ago) I had no idea I would end up ministering in the region and living in the Czech Republic. God doesn't waste anything!


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## Alan D. Strange (May 5, 2012)

Tim said:


> Originally Posted by he beholds
> But a Christian school--a legit one--makes forming Christian relationships easier.
> 
> Interesting point. Thanks for this, Jessi. We often speak of the curriculum, but forget the relationships. Tim Lindsay



Exactly, Jessi and Tim. I grow weary of those who choose secular education at the undergraduate level (I would agree that professional school--other than seminary--or graduate school, is different) and then seek to justify it by indicating why it is superior to Christian institutions. As a principled supporter of Christian education, as many Reformed and Presbyterian have been, particularly with the secularization of the educational enterprise, I think that many of those justifications are rather off the mark--epistemologically and otherwise. I think that it is a false dichotomy to say "I've a good church, I don't need a Christian school." And I say that realizing that Christian colleges have many problems and are by no means perfect and that many state institutions have better offerings than others. It's sort of like remaining sin means that believers are not as good in practice as in principle and common grace means that unbelievers aren't as bad in practice as in principle. I recognize this. Yet, there is still, I would argue, a premium to be placed on sound Christian education. 

Having said all that, let me just now focus on Jessi's and Tim's point: relationships. My children, reared in the Christian church and given Christian educations, have wanted to go to Christian colleges (they also did some community college in HS for double credit so they are familiar with that setting): at such schools they have formed friendships with their own sex and the opposite sex, with Christians who have encouraged them and with whom they can become dear friends. I am not saying that they don't have their problems or their friends don't and I'm not saying that Christian friendships cannot be formed at state schools, especially through on-campus Christian organizations. I am also not naive as to the goings-on at Christian schools. But it is much worse at secular schools. I realize that a Christian can, and I know many who do, keep themselves unspotted by the world at non-Christian institutions, but it is that much harder. It's a harsh (and vulgar, frankly) read, but Tom Wolfe's _I am Charlotte Simmons_ is a shocking look at what indeed is going on at many of our finest secular institutions. 

My bottom line here is that I am unwilling that a witness that goes to support non-Christian secondary institutions over Christian ones should not go unchallenged here. The classroom is not the church and I don't expect it to be, but there is no place in our society where there is a more regular and generally unchallenged systemic intellectual expression of unbelief as there is in many secular classrooms. If someone wants to respond by saying "Don't kid yourself about Christian colleges," I am not. I would say don't kid yourselves about the influence that the secular college classroom can have on our young people, many of whom, let's not kid ourselves, are not as inured to such influence as we may tell ourselves. 

Peace,
Alan


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## VictorBravo (May 5, 2012)

Alan D. Strange said:


> My bottom line here is that I am unwilling that a witness that goes to support non-Christian secondary institutions over Christian ones should not go unchallenged here.



All fair points, Alan, but I haven't seen anyone actually advocate for secular over Christian secondary institutions. I might have not read as carefully as I ought, but it looks like people are responding to the initial question by stated personal facts.

I suppose I should have clarified in my long-winded post that I was not a Christian at all until my last round of professional schooling. I suspect several others who have posted were in a similar situation.


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## Alan D. Strange (May 6, 2012)

Raymond:

I did not take what you said to be anything other than what your experience was. One person, however, was not only, as I took it, descriptive of his educational experience, but prescriptive, in a way that I took to be favoring, at the undergraduate level, a secular over a Christian institution. My point is not that secondary secular education is wrong as in sin and not permitted. I think that it is unwise in a number of cases. And I particularly weary of those, in more recent times, who have privileged it over Christian education. 

I do submit to your judgment as moderator, however, and will gladly yield to whatever ruling you make with respect to this.

Peace,
Alan


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## VictorBravo (May 6, 2012)

Alan, no ruling and no real issue. I just was not seeing what you were responding to. And I'm not acting as a moderator here, just a participant.

The only suggestion I have is if someone raises a point you want to challenge, it is helpful to quote at least the portion of it so we can see what the issue is.


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## Alan D. Strange (May 6, 2012)

Raymond:

I did quote Tim quoting Jessi with respect to relationships and how Christian colleges might aid such. That is the point that I started to make. But someone else said something that prompted the broader reflection on Christian and secular education. I did not wish to cite that person in this case (as to be less confrontational and personal) but rather make the broader point. Perhaps it was unhelpful.

Peace,
Alan


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## VictorBravo (May 6, 2012)

And probably my haste in reading and missing things contributed to this diversion. 

Carry on. . . .


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