# 2nd question arising (re Kirk)



## JennyG (Jul 23, 2011)

If it's tenable to think of a local congregation as able to maintain its own spiritual integrity despite the General Assembly, - is it also possible to think of a group of believers within a local church (not the Session or office-bearers) as able to maintain spiritual integrity independently of partially apostate congregation, elders and minister?


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## Tim (Jul 23, 2011)

The way you have phrased it, the answer would seem to be yes. That is, if the first is tenable, the second is also tenable. This would be because, in both situations, you have described a smaller group of faithful people within a larger group of apostate people.

Personally, I am not sure that the first scenario is tenable, but that was your other question in your other thread.

I suppose one of the things to decide is if the relationship between the presbytery and the local congregation is the same as the relationship between the elders of a local congregation and the members of that congregation.


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## Edward (Jul 23, 2011)

While it is probably possible, it would not be healthy for either the body or the faithful to form a cabal within the congregation. The faithful members would be under the teaching and discipline of those who profess a different faith. There would be little room for growth within the body, and one would be dependent upon the leadership's continued failure to practice discipline. Gracious separation would be the better practice. 

With a faithful church in an apostate body at least the local congregation is getting solid teaching and spiritual nourishment.


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## JennyG (Jul 23, 2011)

> I suppose one of the things to decide is if the relationship between the presbytery and the local congregation is the same as the relationship between the elders of a local congregation and the members of that congregation.


Thanks Tim, I think that's a good way of putting it. I'm not sure about the first one either, but it does seem as if this one would follow. 
Philip suggested if my church is individually faithful I should stick with it, but it really isn't sadly, which is why I need to consider the second question. An awful lot of people in Scotland must be in exactly the same position. Lots of them probably also have friends who want to persuade them that yes, we can be faithful even if the wider church isn't.

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Edward said:


> While it is probably possible, it would not be healthy for either the body or the faithful to form a cabal within the congregation. The faithful members would be under the teaching and discipline of those who profess a different faith. There would be little room for growth within the body, and one would be dependent upon the leadership's continued failure to practice discipline. Gracious separation would be the better practice.
> 
> With a faithful church in an apostate body at least the local congregation is getting solid teaching and spiritual nourishment.


yes.


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