# Baptism in Romans 6:"Create" or "Signify" Union?



## Mocha (Dec 1, 2006)

I was listening to a MP3 by Dr. Clark entitled "What is Baptism and What Does it Do?". I came across something that caught my attention while he was talking about the baptism in Romans 6. Here it is:



> He (Paul) appeals to baptism as a witness of our union with Christ. It's a witness of our union with Christ! As many as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death. This is the language of identification. Baptism for Paul does not create union. It signifies and seals something that already exists.



So, if I'm understanding Dr. Clark correctly, he's saying that the baptism referred to in Romans 6 does not accomplish or achieve something, but simply is the language of identification.

Now I want to type out a quote from Martyn Lloyd-Jones dealing with this same passage in Romans 6. Here it is:



> That brings us to a fifth explanation, which says that here the Apostle is teaching that baptism is the symbolic representation, or pictorial enactment of, a deeper spiritual reality, namely, our union with Christ...Paul does not say that it is a picture. Paul says that it is accomplished by or through baptism. He does not say that it is a wonderful pictorial or symbolic representation of it. He says that by or through your baptism this happened to you...Say what you like against the Sacramentarians, but they at any rate have got hold of the idea that this baptism about which the Apostle is writing does achieve something. They go very far wrong in their interpretation of the manner in which it is achieved, or what is achieved by it; but at least they can see that the baptism does something - 'through' baptism, 'by' baptism. (Romans 6, pg.33-34)



My first question is: Does the baptism of Romans 6 "create" union or only "signify" union?

My second question is: Is the baptism of Romans 6 referring to a "spiritual" baptism or a "water" baptism?

My third question is: If the baptism of Romans 6 is referring to water baptism, and if water baptism signifies union with Christ, doesn't that suggest that everyone who is baptized with water is signifying their union with Christ (i.e. infants)?

If I'm grasping the issue correctly, it seems to me that the baptism (union) of Romans 6 is very important to the PB/CB debate.


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## reformedman (Dec 1, 2006)

* 1*What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
* 2*God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
* 3*Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?
* 4*Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
* 5*For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:
* 6*Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
* 7*For he that is dead is freed from sin.
* 8*Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him:
* 9*Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
* 10*For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God.
* 11*Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord.
* 12*Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.
* 13*Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.
* 14*For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
* 15*What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
* 16*Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
* 17*But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.
* 18*Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.
* 19*I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness.
* 20*For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness.
* 21*What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.
* 22*But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.
*23*For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.


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## MW (Dec 1, 2006)

From memory, I think Lloyd Jones would say that "baptism" in Rom. 6 has nothing to do with water baptism for the very reason that it is said to accomplish union with Christ; therefore, in his view, it must be speaking about baptism accomplished by the Spirit. I am content to adhere to the very sound biblical maxim set forth by the Westminster Confession (27:2): "There is, in every sacrament, a spiritual relation, or sacramental union, between the sign and the thing signified: whence it comes to pass, that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other." So while the apostle is primarily referring to the believer's baptism by the Spirit, it is still appropriate to speak of water baptism representing this work of the Spirit in uniting us to Christ.


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## Mocha (Dec 1, 2006)

armourbearer said:


> From memory, I think Lloyd Jones would say that "baptism" in Rom. 6 has nothing to do with water baptism for the very reason that it is said to accomplish union with Christ; therefore, in his view, it must be speaking about baptism accomplished by the Spirit. I am content to adhere to the very sound biblical maxim set forth by the Westminster Confession (27:2): "There is, in every sacrament, a spiritual relation, or sacramental union, between the sign and the thing signified: whence it comes to pass, that the names and effects of the one are attributed to the other." So while the apostle is primarily referring to the believer's baptism by the Spirit, it is still appropriate to speak of water baptism representing this work of the Spirit in uniting us to Christ.



Yes, you're right! Martyn Lloyd-Jones doesn't see water baptism in Romans 6. Here's more from him on the baptism in Romans 6:



> Indeed I go further and suggest that to argue that the Apostle has water baptism in his mind in any shape or form here is to give a prominence to baptism that the Apostle Paul never gives to it.
> 
> ...The conclusion therefore at which I arrive is that baptism by water is not in the mind of the Apostle at all in these two verses; instead it is the baptism that is wrought by the Spirit.It is the plain, explicit teaching of 1 Corinthians 12:13, and indeed in the whole of that chapter, aas it is in other places where the Apostle treats of this particular aspect of truth. And I argue further that the use of the term 'planted together', in verse 5, supports what I am saying. All are agreed that the idea of planting has nothing to do with baptism at all; it is rather the idea of grafting a shoot into a tree. 'Planted together' - in unity, identification - that is the meaning of the term. Paul is not using the figure of baptism in any shape or form there, but is still emphasizing this unity.
> 
> ...


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