# Was Jesus knowledge & power limited during incarnation?



## thistle93 (Jul 7, 2013)

First off I believe that Jesus was and is 100 % human and 100% divine. How that all works together is a mystery. But it does seems there are quite a few verses that would seem to indicate that at certain points of the incarnation that Jesus knowledge and power was limited. That He was dependent on the Father for this knowledge (and yet certain things were still hidden from Him) and His power of healing and miracles. Was this self imposed as part of His humbling himself or part of His limitation (that while fully divine) of being a human man. I would assume these limitations were removed after the ascension. 

Thoughts? Prefer verses to back up. Or will we have to wait until Heaven for the answer? Thank you! 



For His Glory-
Matthew


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## RamistThomist (Jul 7, 2013)

Richard Muller nicely explains this in the concept of the _theologia unionis_. Jesus' _human _knowledge was finite. Jesus had the extraordinary gifts bestowed upon him by the Holy Spirit, but it (his human knowledge) was still finite. This preserves the archetypal/ectypal distinction. The theologia unionis is a form of ectypal theology.


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## Peairtach (Jul 7, 2013)

_In his humanity_ our Lord was not and is not omnipresent, omnipotent or omniscient. These are attributes of deity.

In His humiliation He was equipped in His humanity with what He needed in order to carry out His task by the Holy Spirit, including prophetic knowledge and insight. But being a man, and as a man, and living as one of us, He did not know everything.

He is fully divine and fully human, having a human body and a reasonable human soul, in union with His deity, albeit now glorified and exalted.

In His glorified humanity he now has access to all knowledge in a way that He did not in His humiliation.

The passages which show His lack of knowledge are further evidence of the divine authenticity of Holy Scripture, as someone manufacturing an account of someone who claimed deity implying omniscience, would not include them.


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## Gforce9 (Jul 7, 2013)

I would only add to these fine comments the creed of Chalcedon. A special note to the declaration about each nature retaining it's own attributes. No one knows how much information was communicated via the hypostatic union from the divine nature to the human. Speculation is probably ground not best traversed...


Council of Chalcedon (451 A.D)



Therefore, following the holy fathers, we all with one accord teach men to acknowledge one and the same Son, our Lord Jesus Christ, at once complete in Godhead and complete in manhood, truly God and truly man, consisting also of a reasonable soul and body; of one substance with the Father as regards his Godhead, and at the same time of one substance with us as regards his manhood; like us in all respects, apart from sin; as regards his Godhead, begotten of the Father before the ages, but yet as regards his manhood begotten, for us men and for our salvation, of Mary the Virgin, the God-bearer; one and the same Christ, Son, Lord, Only-begotten, recognized in two natures, without confusion, without change, without division, without separation; the distinction of natures being in no way annulled by the union, but rather the characteristics of each nature being preserved and coming together to form one person and subsistence, not as parted or separated into two persons, but one and the same Son and Only-begotten God the Word, Lord Jesus Christ; even as the prophets from earliest times spoke of him, and our Lord Jesus Christ himself taught us, and the creed of the fathers has handed down to us.


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## a mere housewife (Jul 8, 2013)

This is a very good book addressing this and a number of other questions about Christ:

A Christian’s Pocket Guide about Jesus Christ: Mark Jones: 9781845509514: Amazon.com: Books


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## Semper Fidelis (Jul 8, 2013)

Berkhof:


> 2. SCRIPTURE PROOF FOR THE REAL HUMANITY OF Christ. There has been a time, when the reality (Gnosticism) and the natural integrity (Docetism, Apollinarianism) of the human nature of Christ was denied, but at present no one seriously questions the real humanity of Jesus Christ. In fact, there is at present an extreme emphasis on His veritable humanity, an ever-growing humanitarianism. The only divinity many still ascribe to Christ, is simply that of His perfect humanity. This modern tendency is, no doubt, in part a protest against a one-sided emphasis on the deity of Christ. Men have sometimes forgotten the human Christ in their reverence for the divine. It is very important to maintain the reality and integrity of the humanity of Jesus by admitting his human development and human limitations. The splendor of His deity should not be stressed to the extent of obscuring His real humanity. Jesus called Himself man, and is so called by others, John 8:40; Acts 2:22; Rom. 5:15; 1 Cor. 15:21. The most common self-designation of Jesus, “the Son of Man,” whatever connotation it may have, certainly also indicates the veritable humanity of Jesus. Moreover, it is said that the Lord came or was manifested in the flesh, John 1:14; 1 Tim. 3:16; 1 John 4:2. In these passages the term “flesh” denotes human nature. The Bible clearly indicates that Jesus possessed the essential elements of human nature, that is, a material body and a rational soul, Matt. 26:26, 28, 38; Luke 23:46; 24:39; John 11:33; Heb. 2:14. There are also passages which show that Jesus was subject to the ordinary laws of human development, and to human wants and sufferings, Luke 2:40, 52; Heb. 2:10, 18; 5:8. It is brought out in detail that the normal experiences of man’s life were His, Matt. 4:2; 8:24; 9:36; Mk. 3:5; Lk. 22:44; John 4:6; 11:35; 12:27; 19:28, 30; Heb. 5:7.
> 
> Berkhof, L. (1938). Systematic theology (p. 318). Grand Rapids, MI: Wm. B. Eerdmans publishing co.



When thinking of the humanity of Christ, it is important to remember that He was a man in every way like us except without sin and that He was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of a virgin. It is easy to forget that, although we speak of one Person, there is a distinct divine nature and a distinct human nature. In His humanity, it did not merely _seem_ that He lacked divine knowledge and power but He really did not have them. He was dependent upon the Spirit during His life and, as a human, could not simply "tap into" His divinity as if it belonged to His human nature. He had a real human soul and mind so that, when He reasoned in His human nature, He was really thinking as a human. Now we normally associate the seat "personhood" with our thinking but this is the mystery of the hypostatic union that a full and complete human nature was united to the diving nature. A human will and a divine will that are distinct wills are united in one Person. 

As someone already noted, it's not as if He _was_ limited in His human nature but His human nature remains in the state of humanity. This boggles my mind and I'm still learning a lot as time goes by but there is a mystery beyond which we cannot penetrate and simply accept as an article of revealed fact. 

It is worthy of our meditation to relfect upon the sufferings that Christ experienced in His humanity. There is a tendency to mix the natures as if Christ might have pretended to suffer but that He was just able to pass through all the trials aloof and unbothered because His mind was Divine and nothing bothered or concerned Him. Realizing His full humanity gives great comfort to us when we witness the agonizing trials He went to and realizing that, in His humanity, had to go through periods where He had to trust the promises of His Father on the eve of His crucifixion. Any impious theology that tries to tell us that a true believer never expresses doubt or fear to God impugns the Savior who was tempted in such things to the maximum extent possible but came out on the other side for our salvation.

If we think of the things Christ accomplished on Earth and always think: "Well of course He was able to do that, He was divine" then we've missed what Scripture is teaching us. It's a revealed mystery we need to continue to unpack in our thinking. For me, it challenges the notion I have sometimes when I give in to temptation so easily thinking: "Well Jesus didn't give in to temptation but He wasn't really human...." Yet, when I remember that Christ was a man like me, except without sin, I realize how remarkable it is that He was sinless and don't just pretend as if it was some cakewalk. I'm also reminded that I'm united to Him and the life that so resolutely resisted temptation is now my possession in Him.


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