# Hymns Inclusion Articles, Sermons, Books (BEST ONLY)



## Romans922 (Feb 5, 2016)

I'm looking for the best ONLY. Meaning that which makes great arguments AGAINST EP (read: For Hymns inclusion) [and if you have them FOR EP]. 



NOT LOOKING FOR DEBATING HERE, just looking for articles, sermons, and books. Thank you.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## JP Wallace (Feb 6, 2016)

This is as good as anything else I've read. http://www.cbtseminary.org/2014/08/waldron-exclusive-psalmody/

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## Tyrese (Feb 6, 2016)

JP Wallace said:


> This is as good as anything else I've read. http://www.cbtseminary.org/2014/08/waldron-exclusive-psalmody/



Hi brother,

Thanks for sharing Dr. Waldrons articles on EP from CBTS. I agree with all of his arguments except his first major argument against EP. I'm personally not comfortable with making an argument against EP simply because our Psalters are English translations. Other than that, it's really good.

Tyrese


----------



## JP Wallace (Feb 7, 2016)

I don't agree with any of them,  but I do think it's a reasonable summary of the arguments.


----------



## Tyrese (Feb 7, 2016)

JP Wallace said:


> I don't agree with any of them,  but I do think it's a reasonable summary of the arguments.



Lol I know most of you all don't agree. But, they are reasonable arguments.


----------



## Jake (Feb 9, 2016)

I had trouble finding many good defenses when I was searching, that I felt were consistently regulative. Interestingly, I saw a thread pop up here a while ago asking the same question that didn't get any responses.

One of the better ones I found is Joe Morecraft's book: http://www.amazon.com/How-God-Wants-Worship-Him/dp/1929241313
Disappointingly, while he borrows from Bushell, Schwertley, Gillespie, and other EP-ers in defining the regulative principle, he has almost no interaction with them in his chapter on exclusive psalmody. 

You can also find quite a few articles from T. David Gordon (PCA minister) on the topic.


----------



## Andrew P.C. (Feb 9, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> I'm looking for the best ONLY. Meaning that which makes great arguments AGAINST EP (read: For Hymns inclusion) [and if you have them FOR EP].
> 
> 
> 
> NOT LOOKING FOR DEBATING HERE, just looking for articles, sermons, and books. Thank you.




For EP, there are a ton of resources on http://exclusivepsalmody.com/ . 

Also, I haven't finished it yet, so I cannot give you a full assessment; However, the book "Songs of Zion" is very good thus far and many recommend this book. http://www.crownandcovenant.com/Songs_of_Zion_p/ds210.htm

Also, if you haven't read it yet, John Murray's assessment at the 14th General Assembly is brief but well done. http://www.opc.org/GA/song.html#Minority


----------



## Romans922 (Feb 9, 2016)

Andrew P.C. said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm looking for the best ONLY. Meaning that which makes great arguments AGAINST EP (read: For Hymns inclusion) [and if you have them FOR EP].
> ...



There's already a long thread on EP in the EP subforum. Thanks though.


----------



## Romans922 (Feb 9, 2016)

Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.

All I have found are arguments against EP. But I haven't really found any positive - 'hymns also must be sung' because Scripture says...


----------



## Logan (Feb 9, 2016)

That's very interesting if that's the case.


----------



## Justified (Feb 9, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.
> 
> All I have found are arguments against EP. But I haven't really found any positive - 'hymns also must be sung' because Scripture says...



Interesting thought. If Colossians 3:16 and Ephesians 5:19 are Paul regulating worship-- as many hymnists claim-- and if hymns and spiritual songs refer to uninspired compositions, given the RPW, it follows that, not only _can_ we sing hymns, but indeed we _must_. Truly an absurd consequence.


----------



## Romans922 (Feb 9, 2016)

Justified said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.
> ...



Yes but that argument fails because it is clear based on the language of Paul that he's referring to the Psalter. I believe in hymn inclusion and I also recognize that the argument from Col. 3 and Eph. 5 is very weak.


----------



## Justified (Feb 9, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> Justified said:
> 
> 
> > Romans922 said:
> ...


For clarification, I don't believe in hymn inclusion. I actually am not sure that Paul is regulating worship here, though I do think Paul is referring to Psalms.


----------



## Andres (Feb 9, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.
> 
> All I have found are arguments against EP. But I haven't really found any positive - 'hymns also must be sung' because Scripture says...



Dr. Pipa believes that man-inspired hymns are required to be sung in worship. I've heard him or someone from Greenville make some argument for this on one of the seminary podcasts once. I honestly don't recall his argument because, with all due respect to Dr. Pipa, it wasn't a very good one. Dr Pipa's views might be a good place to begin exploring, though.


----------



## TylerRay (Feb 9, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.
> 
> All I have found are arguments against EP. But I haven't really found any positive - 'hymns also must be sung' because Scripture says...



Rev. Barnes,

I think the underlying thought for a lot of folks is that Psalms and uninspired hymns are of one kind. If both constitute "praise," and all we are required to do is "sing praise," then either will serve the purpose equally well.

Certainly, others would view them as separate kinds of songs, each of which is to be sung, but that's hard to make a case for from Scripture, especially if one has already conceded that Col 3 and Eph 4 refer to the Psalter (of course, even if one were to make the argument from those passages he has the daunting task of distinguishing hymns from songs, since all three kinds of songs are to be sung).


----------



## Afterthought (Feb 9, 2016)

I think Kenneth Gentry had a lengthy sermon series? I don't know how good it is in terms of argumentation.


----------



## Poimen (Feb 10, 2016)

Andrew:

Here are some resources I have recommended to someone who was studying this issue in an identical fashion:

Poythress wrote a two or three part article. Start here: http://www.framepoythress.org/poythress_articles/1974Ezra3Part1.htm

Lee Irons: http://www.the-highway.com/psalmody_Irons.html

Stephen Pribble: http://www.all-of-grace.org/pub/pribble/hymnsing.html

Joey Pipa (an mp3): http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=123111443583

For my part, after searching high and low and asking for resources from many others, I found that the vast majority of writing on this subject is from the EP side. Make of it what you will but the non-EP side (from a RPW perspective) is seriously under represented (in both older and contemporary works).

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## MW (Feb 10, 2016)

There are some nineteenth century debates with books and pamphlets arising out of them. Baird/McMaster "draw the lines" and probably every debate goes in a similar direction. Annan/Pressly is another. In the Free Church context, the Hamilton/Gibson literature is of interest. On historical discussion in the Scottish family, Bonar/Fleming. So for non-EP specific argument, probably Baird, Annan, and Hamilton.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## JP Wallace (Feb 11, 2016)

I'm thinking you may also find material in relation to the more recent move of the Free Church of Scotland from EP as their exclusive position, maybe search for David Robertson on the subject.


----------



## Jeri Tanner (Feb 11, 2016)

TylerRay said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.
> ...



I read this helpful quote from Augustine this morning: "It is better for us to seek the path of praise, the Scripture of God, that we turn not aside from the way either to the right hand or to the left. God hath praised Himself that He might be properly praised by man; and because He hath deigned to praise Himself, therefore have men found how to praise Him. For it cannot be said to God, as it is to man, ' Let not Thine own mouth praise Thee.' For man to praise himself is arrogance : for God to praise Himself is mercy." (his commentary on Psalm 145)


----------



## Ed Walsh (Feb 11, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> Hymns Inclusion Articles



I think the following is in keeping with your request.

Reports of the Committee on Song in Worship

Where in 1946 the OPC hashed out the use of songs other than the Psalms of the Bible. Oddly, they seem almost to prove that the RPW requires the use of Psalms exclusively, but yet they conclude that man-made hymns may also be sung in worship.

The report includes the Minority Report, by John Murray, and William Young, which concludes that the RPW requires exclusive Psalmody.


----------



## Romans922 (Feb 11, 2016)

Ed Walsh said:


> Romans922 said:
> 
> 
> > Hymns Inclusion Articles
> ...



Thanks Ed. This is one that I found from the EP website. What PCA church do you attend?


----------



## Ed Walsh (Feb 11, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> What PCA church do you attend?



Knowlton Presbyterian Church in Knowlton, New Jersey

I am in the picture: 3dr row, about a 3rd of the way in from the right. Gray hair. My beautiful wife is next to me but mostly hidden.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Feb 11, 2016)

The reason the opc majority report seems out of keeping with the earlier report on the RPW is because Murray wrote it. See the current issue of The Confessional Presbyterian, v11 2015, where we have Murray's reports. Undated with notes comparing the text to Murray's first draft in MS which I transcribed. Sale prices have ended but are in effect until I update the links and the website. For now you can still get the v11 for $20 and v11 and forthcoming v12 (June we hope) for $40. That is for the US. https://www.facebook.com/notes/the-...onal-presbyterian-11-and-12/10153381311763434

Reactions: Informative 1


----------



## SolaScriptura (Feb 11, 2016)

Romans922 said:


> Is there anything that argues Hymn Inclusion by using the RPW? I have found none so far.
> 
> All I have found are arguments against EP. But I haven't really found any positive - 'hymns also must be sung' because Scripture says...



Chapter 10 in _Give Praise to God: A Vision for Reforming Worship_ is written by Paul Jones. In his words, "Our goal in this chapter is to revisit biblical support by example and inference, not only for the validity of hymnody, but also for the importance of hymnody in the worship of the church of the twenty-first century."

I found it to be a good chapter, perhaps it will help you in your efforts.

Reactions: Informative 1


----------

