# On Demon Possession & Exorcism Today



## Travis Fentiman (Jan 24, 2021)

This is a personal topic for myself, Travis Fentiman, MDiv., LPN. Until I became a nurse, I never had any first-hand experience with demonic possession.

But since then, after talking to and observing many persons who hear ‘voices’ in their head, I have become persuaded that most schizophrenics, who hear such malevolent voices, are demon possessed. This means that more people than we have imagined today are possessed by demons, and are around us in some number in society (about 1%).

These webpages were born out of need. When a person is being tormented in front of you in tears and despair, how does one help them? Can one deliver them?

I have written a personal account of my experience and clinical observations with these things, and hope it may be helpful and eye-opening. See the Introduction on this new page:

On Demonic Possession​​For a very real tour of what we are talking about, watch this short 4 minute video of a man describing his history with voices.

I wish I had time to write an introduction to the following page as well, giving the results of my investigations into Scripture, reformed theology and history, but I have not. Nonetheless, this might be the only collection of historic, reformed resouces available on the topic:

On Exorcism​​I hope these resources may be helpful to others.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 24, 2021)

Excellent. Thank you for these resources.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 24, 2021)

This is probably the most legendary (in the good sense of the word) modern account of demon possession. It is about the 19th century Lutheran pastor.

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## Travis Fentiman (Jan 24, 2021)

Jacob, thanks so much for the link! I will be looking it over.


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## Leslie (Jan 24, 2021)

I'm a physician working in a developing area. I've seen some cases of demonization in my 26 years here, two spectacular ones that I can remember right now. There were probably more cases in the community, but the common belief is that white expatriates don't believe in demons, so people go to shamans rather than me. Fortunately, we have a good friend, a chaplain, who has the gift for dealing with this.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 24, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> Jacob, thanks so much for the link! I will be looking it over.



I don't endorse everything either E. Neuhardt or Zilinsky say, but they have been on the front lines and even if their analysis is off, they are usually pretty good in getting information on a topic. E. Neuhardt also has a series "The Devil and Karen Kingston." That's more fascinating than anything on cable (and I think it was real). While he holds to a deliverance mentality, he does point out where Rome goes wrong on this stuff.


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## Reformed Covenanter (Jan 24, 2021)

J. C. Ryle argued for the possibility of demon possession in his commentary on Mark 5:1-17. See the footnote on pp 92-93 of the original edition.

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## Poimen (Jan 24, 2021)

Thank you Travis. I know of a woman who is a schizophrenic that is constantly assaulted by these voices. She is a believer and is helped by some therapies but, most importantly, by the word and prayer. In particular, her and her husband believe that Psalm singing brought her out of a catatonic state. Trusting her profession and observing her walk it is apparent to me that she is redeemed but somehow the Lord allows her to either be afflicted without being possessed or that it is mainly, if not entirely, physical in nature. 

It is instructive to hear how many speak of the malevolence of these voices. Have you ever encountered someone who thought these voice(s) were in any way helpful or benign? The absence of which perhaps, may clue us into the dark nature & source of the affliction.

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## VictorBravo (Jan 24, 2021)

Without going into detail, I know someone suffering from dementia and who hears voices. Most of the time they are benign imaginary voices engaging in dialog.

A month ago there was a shift, and this person described a German-accented voice who said he was God. He was saying who was saved and who was not. It was a bit alarming to me because I was among those who were not. "Thus sayeth the Lord" in a bad German accent.

So we talked about it and prayed for the voice to be silenced, and that God would protect this dear one from evil.

To the point: prayer is effective, to his glory. That particular issue has not come back.

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## Travis Fentiman (Jan 24, 2021)

Rev. Kok,

I do believe that Christians can be assaulted by demons and voices (Eph. 4, 'give not place to the devil'), but as you said, I would think these would not be permanent in a way such that the believer can do nothing about it, or perhaps much of it could actually be physical.

A number of sources on the net (trying to help people who first start to have voices) try to put a postive spin on voices in any way they can, and say that sometimes the voices are benign or encouraging. But then you read the real story, and it is quite the opposite. Here are some great examples:

"I first started hearing voices when I was developing my anorexia. My voices were my best friend. I thought she just wanted the best for me... she was extremely manipulative and whatever she said I would do." - this webpage​​These stories:​​




Hearing voices with bipolar disorder


Katie, who has bipolar disorder, describes her experience of hearing voices when she is manic or depressed.



www.mind.org.uk



​




Hearing voices


Lucy shares her experiences of hearing voices



www.mind.org.uk



​​I would also question whether truly benign voices that never say anything bad, are still actually good or indifferent, or whether that of itself is also bad and possibly demonic. Good angels would never tell you bad stuff, nor benign stuff. Whether some benign voices could be due to a natural condition could probably be debated, given the circumstances.

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## EuphratesRiver (Jan 24, 2021)

I haven't personally experienced the things mentioned, but I stand on upon the belief that demonic possession was more common, if not exclusively, in the times of the apostles. When Jesus and the apostles casted demons out, it was a confirmation to the gospel they preached (Hebrews 2:14).

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## Jeri Tanner (Jan 24, 2021)

EuphratesRiver said:


> I haven't personally experienced the things mentioned, but I stand on upon the belief that demonic possession was more common, if not exclusively, in the times of the apostles. When Jesus and the apostles casted demons out, it was a confirmation to the gospel they preached (Hebrews 2:14).


My thinking runs along this line as well.

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## Travis Fentiman (Jan 25, 2021)

EuphratesRiver said:


> I haven't personally experienced the things mentioned, but I stand on upon the belief that demonic possession was more common, if not exclusively, in the times of the apostles. When Jesus and the apostles casted demons out, it was a confirmation to the gospel they preached (Hebrews 2:14).



Friends, 

While I believe there is biblical warrant that demon possession was more acute in Israel when the Messiah came, largely due to that reason, yet I don't believe it can be denied from Scripture that there is demon activity in the world after the apostles' day:

Rev. 20:3 " And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."​​The devil currently has the nations deceived. Many more Biblical principles and texts apply. And such a view as the cessation of demonic activity/possession is contra the eschatology that undergirds the confessions of reformed orthodoxy, namely Historicism.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 25, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> Friends,
> 
> While I believe there is biblical warrant that demon possession was more acute in Israel when the Messiah came, largely due to that reason, yet I don't believe it can be denied from Scripture that there is demon activity in the world after the apostles' day:
> 
> Rev. 20:3 " And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season."​​The devil currently has the nations deceived. Many more Biblical principles and texts apply. And such a view as the cessation of demonic activity/possession is contra the eschatology that undergirds the confessions of reformed orthodoxy, namely Historicism.



Exactly. There is no logical connection between "exorcism was a sign that confirmed, and only confirmed, the apostles' teaching (something Scripture doesn't say) to "there is no demon possession today." One doesn't follow from the other.

Per exorcism. Demons are like rats. They feed on garbage. Get rid of the garbage (e.g., a p0rn habit) and much of this will solve itself. 

The problem is we are more influenced by Catholic pop culture on exorcisms than we would like to admit. It doesn't have to be dramatic (unless the person in question has made a blood pact with Satan, like U.S. Col. Mike Aquino did).

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## RamistThomist (Jan 29, 2021)

One thing to keep in mind is that we in the West (and to a certain extent, the EO, too) have viewed demonic issues through the lens of faulty categories and less than accurate translation. We, following medieval Catholicism, tend to view all "demons" as "fallen angels," which the Bible never says. 

Some skeptic, or even a functional Evangelical deist, might rightly respond, "So you think a fallen archon is possessing someone?" to which the obvious answer is "no."

I'm not saying "trust the scholars," since I am usually quite hostile to the concept of "experts," but there have been huge breakthroughs on this front.





Clinton Arnold: Powers of Darkness: Principalities & Powers in Paul's Letters


Arnold, Clinton. Powers of Darkness: Principalities and Powers in Paul's Letters. Downers Grove, IL: InterVarsityPress, 1992. In many ways this is a shortened version of his dissertation. But it can also function as a supernaturalist, evangelical response to the then (and now) current...




www.puritanboard.com









Defeating Dark Angels: Breaking Demonic Oppression in the Believer's Life - Kindle edition by Kraft, Charles H.. Religion & Spirituality Kindle eBooks @ Amazon.com.


Defeating Dark Angels: Breaking Demonic Oppression in the Believer's Life - Kindle edition by Kraft, Charles H.. Download it once and read it on your Kindle device, PC, phones or tablets. Use features like bookmarks, note taking and highlighting while reading Defeating Dark Angels: Breaking...



www.amazon.com





My only issue with Kraft's work is that it is really easy (unintentionally) to read memories back into the subject, so be on guard with that.









Territorial Spirits: Some Biblical Perspectives


by Vern S. Poythress [Published in Urban Mission 13/2 (Dec., 1995) 37-49. Used with permission.] What are we to think about territorial spirits? The Argentinian pastor Omar Cabrera, after s…




frame-poythress.org





This is probably the single best take on the issue.






3 Crucial Questions on Spiritual Warfare (Arnold)


Arnold, Clinton. 3 Crucial Questions on Spiritual Warfare. Grand Rapids, MI: Baker Academic, 1997. Continuing with the material in his dissertation on Ephesians, Clinton Arnold gives top-level scholarship combined with practical application for the church. In this text he steers a middle...




www.puritanboard.com







https://drmsh.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/11/What-is-spiritual-warfare-from-Heiser-DEMONS-MS-unedited.pdf



While I normally default to Heiser on everything regarding these issues, I don't think he is aware of all the "issues on the ground." I do agree with his approach that the normal way to break strongholds in your life is by ordinary Christian practices.

Derek Gilbert has done a good job summarizing the scholarship for the layman.








The Day the Earth Stands Still (Peck and Gilbert)


More people believe in UFOs than in God. Rather, more people believe in UFOs than in the traditional understanding of God. That is why there is an urgent need for Christians to give thoughtful, ki…




tentsofshem.wordpress.com












Last Clash of the Titans


Gilbert, Derek P. The Last Clash of the Titans. Defender Publishing, 2018. Derek Gilbert’s unique skill is in summarizing the very difficulty academic scholarship and placing it in a template that …




tentsofshem.wordpress.com












Review: The Great Inception (Satan’s Psyops)


This book surprised me. I wondered how sophisticated it would be. It impressed. I do feel like some arguments could have been expanded, but overall Gilbert made a reasonably strong case, one tha…




tentsofshem.wordpress.com

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## Charles Johnson (Jan 29, 2021)

BayouHuguenot said:


> One thing to keep in mind is that we in the West (and to a certain extent, the EO, too) have viewed demonic issues through the lens of faulty categories and less than accurate translation. We, following medieval Catholicism, tend to view all "demons" as "fallen angels," which the Bible never says.
> 
> Some skeptic, or even a functional Evangelical deist, might rightly respond, "So you think a fallen archon is possessing someone?" to which the obvious answer is "no."
> 
> ...


What do you believe the origin of demons is, Jacob?


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## earl40 (Jan 29, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> This is a personal topic for myself, Travis Fentiman, MDiv., LPN. Until I became a nurse, I never had any first-hand experience with demonic possession.
> 
> But since then, after talking to and observing many persons who hear ‘voices’ in their head, I have become persuaded that most schizophrenics, who hear such malevolent voices, are demon possessed. This means that more people than we have imagined today are possessed by demons, and are around us in some number in society (about 1%).



As one who works in healthcare (all be it not in mental health) I am concerned you believe that most who are schizophrenic are demon possessed. Do you think they ought not to take medicine since you appear to think this is a spiritual problem?

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## RamistThomist (Jan 29, 2021)

Charles Johnson said:


> What do you believe the origin of demons is, Jacob?



For starters, demons are unclean spirits. They aren't fallen archangels, since the Bible has other terms for that: beney ha-elohim, shedim, archai, kosmokratoras, etc.

The Bible doesn't actually say what their origin is, though it leaves hints. Josephus, Philo, and almost all of the Jews before Christ believed they were the spirits of slain Nephilim. I'm not 100% sold on that idea, though it does avoid the problems inherent in traditional categories.

Other problems concern the identity of the Rephaim. On one hand, they were living kings in Canaan. On the other hand, they are located in the waters below Sheol, which ties in with Ugaritic texts that see them as some sort of underworld king.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 29, 2021)

earl40 said:


> As one who works in healthcare (all be it not in mental health) I am concerned you believe that most who are schizophrenic are demon possessed. Do you think they ought not to take medicine since you appear to think this is a spiritual problem?



Although you and I usually disagree on these points, I'm not far off from you (I take anxiety meds, for what it is worth). In the 1940s-1970s the US learned how to split the personalities of subjects through extreme trauma. For the most part, though, I wouldn't say those victims were demon-possessed.

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## earl40 (Jan 29, 2021)

Speaking of split personalities....one of my favorite movie trilogies was Shimackalonadingdong's Unbreakable, Split, and Glass.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 29, 2021)

earl40 said:


> Speaking of split personalities....one of my favorite movie trilogies was Shimackalonadingdong's Unbreakable, Split, and Glass.



I could never get into Unbreakable (I know, it's supposedly his greatest). Split had a very interesting premise, though.


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## Travis Fentiman (Jan 29, 2021)

earl40 said:


> As one who works in healthcare (all be it not in mental health) I am concerned you believe that most who are schizophrenic are demon possessed. Do you think they ought not to take medicine since you appear to think this is a spiritual problem?


Earl, I answer that in the article I wrote, namely the Intro to the webpage linked in the original post.

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## earl40 (Jan 30, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> Earl, I answer that in the article I wrote, namely the Intro to the webpage linked in the original post.



So in your opinion medication should not be used in those with schizophrenia, because most of them are possessed. I am still concerned with your view.


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## Travis Fentiman (Jan 30, 2021)

earl40 said:


> So in your opinion medication should not be used in those with schizophrenia, because most of them are possessed. I am still concerned with your view.


Earl, I never said that. Please read my article again.

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## earl40 (Jan 30, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> Earl, I never said that. Please read my article again.


"As most of them hear malevolent voices, it is likely that most of them are demonically possessed......When you are possessed by demons, there is no natural thing on this earth that will be able to cure you of it"

?


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## Travis Fentiman (Jan 30, 2021)

Earl,

That statement I made is true. Drugs do not cure schizophrenia. As I said in my article repeatedly, drugs may and often do help palliate the noise of the voices. I footnoted a link which I stated gave a balanced sketch of the effectiveness, and lack of effectiveness of drugs in relation to schizophrenia.

But it is a waste of my time to simply provide quotes from my article, or to defend myself from things I never said or implied.

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## Steve Curtis (Jan 30, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> it is a waste of my time to simply provide quotes from my article, or to defend myself from things I never said or implied.


I have absolutely no dog in this fight. But it seems apropos here to note that it is often a waste of _my_ time to follow links.
This is a _discussion_ board, not a _hyperlink_ board. I for one (and I may be alone?) find it frustrating when I inquire as to someone's thoughts about something and they point me to a book/blog/vlog or even a sermon. Discuss. _Here_. Pretend we are - _gasp_! - sitting in a library (or a pub or a living room) and let's just have a conversation, for crying out loud... 
Again, not directed, _per se_, at you, Travis, but your post provided a convenient launching pad for a diatribe...

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## RamistThomist (Jan 31, 2021)

kainos01 said:


> I have absolutely no dog in this fight. But it seems apropos here to note that it is often a waste of _my_ time to follow links.
> This is a _discussion_ board, not a _hyperlink_ board. I for one (and I may be alone?) find it frustrating when I inquire as to someone's thoughts about something and they point me to a book/blog/vlog or even a sermon. Discuss. _Here_. Pretend we are - _gasp_! - sitting in a library (or a pub or a living room) and let's just have a conversation, for crying out loud...
> Again, not directed, _per se_, at you, Travis, but your post provided a convenient launching pad for a diatribe...



True enough, but Travis was implied as saying medication should not be used on schizophrenia, which he never said.


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## Andrew35 (Jan 31, 2021)

EuphratesRiver said:


> I haven't personally experienced the things mentioned, but I stand on upon the belief that demonic possession was more common, if not exclusively, in the times of the apostles. When Jesus and the apostles casted demons out, it was a confirmation to the gospel they preached (Hebrews 2:14).


Primarily yes, but it also seems to have occurred, oddly enough, when demons were annoying or just got in their way.

The attitude of Christ and the apostles toward demons in the NT is quite unexpected, perhaps due to our pop-culture, Roman Catholic apprehensions of their natures, to which I believe Bayou above alluded.

No dramatic showdowns, no Frank Peretti-type spiritual battles; just kind of a... weary contempt, if I could put it that way.

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## earl40 (Jan 31, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> Earl,
> 
> That statement I made is true. Drugs do not cure schizophrenia. As I said in my article repeatedly, drugs may and often do help palliate the noise of the voices. I footnoted a link which I stated gave a balanced sketch of the effectiveness, and lack of effectiveness of drugs in relation to schizophrenia.
> 
> But it is a waste of my time to simply provide quotes from my article, or to defend myself from things I never said or implied.



Thanks for the reply.  I see where you do say that drugs may help, though my main concern is you think most of these poor people are possessed. I will cease from posting more on this subject on this Lord's Day....to keep peace...even though I believe it is a permissible discussion today.

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## RamistThomist (Jan 31, 2021)

Andrew35 said:


> Primarily yes, but it also seems to have occurred, oddly enough, when demons were annoying or just got in their way.
> 
> The attitude of Christ and the apostles toward demons in the NT is quite unexpected, perhaps due to our pop-culture, Roman Catholic apprehensions of their natures, to which I believe Bayou above alluded.
> 
> No dramatic showdowns, no Frank Peretti-type spiritual battles; just kind of a... weary contempt, if I could put it that way.



Interesting. I never noticed that before. My own take is that 90% of "demonic issues" can be dealt with (by the Christian, anyway) simply by getting rid of garbage in your life.

I do believe what we normally think of as "exorcism" can happen today. There is no logical reason why it can't (and certainly no Scriptural reason why it doesn't). I just don't think it is normal. The link by Heiser explains a lot on this.


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## Taylor (Feb 3, 2021)

I just watched an interview with a person with Tourette's syndrome, and it made me think of this thread. And it wasn't because of the uncontrollable behavior she exhibited. Rather, it was because so many of her tics were offensive. She would randomly shout, "F*** off!" At one point in the interview she whistled at the interviewer and gave him the middle finger.

Now, I understand that Tourette's is uncontrollable. However, why in the world is so much of this disease either physically violent or verbally abusive, or both? How much do we understand _medically_ about Tourette's? Could it possibly be demonically influenced, given the commonly violent nature of it? After all, we have several account of demonized people in the New Testament exhibiting similar uncontrolled behavior.

Before someone jumps in, please understand I am not trying to say that all (or even any) people with Tourette's are demonized. However, should we rule out the possibility?

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## OPC'n (Feb 3, 2021)

I personally do not believe that schizophrenia is demon possession. If they were truly demon possessed, then medication wouldn't help them at all, and people with schizophrenia who are saved would be cured of the disease but they aren't. It's not just people with schizophrenia who hear voices. Some people who suffer with Parkinson's disease are known to hear voices. Some people who fall under the spectrum of dementia hear voices. Some people with acute delirium secondary to other acute diseases or infections are known to hear voices. Some people who withdraw from alcohol hear voices.....and the list goes on and on. The brain is the most complicated organ of the body and it's the number one organ that the medical field knows the least about.

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## Travis Fentiman (Feb 3, 2021)

Taylor said:


> I just watched an interview with a person with Tourette's syndrome, and it made me think of this thread. And it wasn't because of the uncontrollable behavior she exhibited. Rather, it was because so many of her tics were offensive. She would randomly shout, "F*** off!" At one point in the interview she whistled at the interviewer and gave him the middle finger.​
> Now, I understand that Tourette's is uncontrollable. However, why in the world is so much of this disease either physically violent or verbally abusive, or both? How much do we understand _medically_ about Tourette's? Could it possibly be demonically influenced, given the commonly violent nature of it? After all, we have several account of demonized people in the New Testament exhibiting similar uncontrolled behavior.
> 
> Before someone jumps in, please understand I am not trying to say that all (or even any) people with Tourette's are demonized. However, should we rule out the possibility?



I am not an expert on Tourette's, but I would make the following observations:

Curse words and socially set symbols, such as flipping the bird, are socially learned and acquired, and therefore are not purely natural.​​Why is Tourette's sometimes associated with violence and such offensive things?: It could be purely 'natural', in parts of the brain being involuntarily triggered which moderate aggression, reflexes and angry feels or behavior. If curse words and flipping the bird are already associated therein from environment, then the reflexive behavior may very well reflect that.​​I do think demonic possession would be characterized by a number of more or other things besides such reflexive behavior, such that, presumably, it would be more clear that an evil spirit is actually living in them or through them.​​Could there be demonic influence? Of course, I would think, the children of this world are subject to the demonic influence of the powers of this world, Eph. 2:1-3. Is it possible it simply comes from the sinful flesh? I would think so also.​


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## Travis Fentiman (Feb 3, 2021)

OPC'n said:


> I personally do not believe that schizophrenia is demon possession...



Sarah, thanks for your thoughts. Just for clarity's sake, I believe I mentioned about all of your qualifications in my article, and hence agree with you therein.

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## RamistThomist (Feb 3, 2021)

OPC'n said:


> If they were truly demon possessed, then medication wouldn't help them at all, and people with schizophrenia who are saved would be cured of the disease but they aren't.



I don't believe they are demon possessed either, but even if they were medicine could have an effect. The human body traduces the soul. If the body is damaged, impaired, or heightened in some way, it will effect how the soul performs.

A demonic individual could have superhuman strength, but not infinite strength. Presumably, he could be doped up to where his manifestations are relatively under control.

And then there is the issue of whether medicine cures schizophrenia. I always thought it just treated it.


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## chuckd (Feb 3, 2021)

Maybe too rudimentary of a question, but what is demon possession?


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## RamistThomist (Feb 3, 2021)

chuckd said:


> Maybe too rudimentary of a question, but what is demon possession?



Exactly. Possession is the wrong word, since that isn't what the Greek says (and most take their understanding of possession from bad Catholic pop culture).

The word is demonized. And unless one has made blood pacts with Satan or is a Deep State agent, the demonization won't be total.


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## ZackF (Feb 3, 2021)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Exactly. Possession is the wrong word, since that isn't what the Greek says (and most take their understanding of possession from bad Catholic pop culture).
> 
> The word is demonized. And unless one has made blood pacts with Satan or is a Deep State agent, the demonization won't be total.


The kitschy RC thing is a an excellent point. I was caught up in that for awhile myself.

The one good thing is that RC theology makes a distinction between possession (including bad definitions) and oppression by dark forces. The latter is often much harder to detect and more common. Oppression can subtle or obvious (the Enfield case in UK). It is no less devastating to a psyche in any event like a kind of supernatural Zersetzung. As you said above Jacob it could be tied to sin acting as a conduit.

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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 3, 2021)

Very interesting thread. I was about to hit the sack, but this will keep me up for a while longer writing. And I poured myself a glass of port to sip as I do, and ponder. Those familiar with some of my posts and threads will recall that a major focus of mine has been the advent of _Biblically-defined _*sorcery* (φαρμακεία _pharmakeia_) or its cognates – cf. Gal 5:20; Rev 9:21; 18:23; 21:8; 22:15 – as an actual event that came to pass in the last century, primarily in the Woodstock days, though it continues into the present. There are eschatological aspects to this, but to look at the essence of this phenomenon: it is the rending of the God-given barrier between the demonic realm and the human consciousness allowing the entrance of the former into the latter, i.e., both the influence and the presence of demons into the collective human consciousness. This sorcery – the Biblical definition, not the abundant superstitious nonsense – remarkably became a national, and then a global, _recreation!_ We actually opened the gates of Hell and allowed the denizens of the pit into our hearts and minds, so that much of the madness we see in the present time is actually the demonic in many areas of human activity – political, societal, personal / individual.

We may consider isolated cases, such as Blumhardt’s, and the accounts in Scripture, or we may broaden our view to see the entire global – but particularly the West’s – zeitgeist (spirit of the age) – being moved en mass in a “strong delusion” (2 Thess 2:11) toward a devil-controlled world that is a prelude to the times of the (very) end.

So to focus on individual cases of demonization, possession, oppression etc – some of which are indeed valid examples of that category – may overlook the bigger picture: the demonic possession – demonization, if you will – *of our entire world*, save for the elect remnant “which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ” Rev 12:17), those who are sealed against their harm (Rev 9:4).

At times the admins or mods here have opposed or even censored my views on this business, although have never successfully refuted it (I have kept records of such discussions), there being a sort of Presbyterian “allergy” to spiritual manifestations of the dark side, and exposures thereof, it troubling our vaunted intellectual / doctrinal prowess.

At any rate, the presence and activity *in our midst* of our spiritual foes, as the OP avers, is a reality we cannot afford to deny or avoid. Though it is far larger than we may realize.

Here are a couple of notes on such:

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## Jerusalem Blade (Feb 4, 2021)

To post more in line with the OP, re an individual / personal account. Years back I knew a young woman, a professing Christian, bright and talented, later on a seminary graduate, who, in her lonely childhood entertained an “imaginary friend” to keep her company. After a while this imaginary friend took on a life of its own and began interacting with her – being young she didn’t think anything wrong with this. In the following years, being active as a Christian, began to hear voices in her imagination / mind, spouting all sorts of horrible blasphemy and foulness that she couldn’t control or get rid of. She sought to live a godly life, and this was a torment to her.

I saw a direct correlation between this and her earlier “imaginary friend” which had gained intimate access to her thinking. I endeavored to have her see this as a matter of spiritual warfare, the genesis of which she had allowed, and which she could, with the help of our Saviour and His indwelling Spirit, get rid of.

A counsellor she knew, who thought it more an OCD-type phenomenon, put her on some meds to try to alleviate the problem. I lost contact with her, and don’t know how things resolved, if they did.

I have come to believe that much, though not all, “OCD”, is also demonic in origin, having had some personal experience with that. Jessie Penn-Lewis, who co-authored the book, _War on the Saints_ (only the unabridged edition is good), with Evan Roberts, talks about this sort of thing. A hyper-scrupulous but poorly informed conscience, and ignorant of the spiritual life, can fall prey to such demonic oppression / deception.

Charismatics target Penn-Lewis because of her view that “tongues” and other supposed gifts are demonic counterfeits. I found Penn-Lewis to be extremely insightful. She was a Calvinistic Methodist, somewhat after Martyn Lloyd-Jones.

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## retroGRAD3 (Feb 4, 2021)

I just wanted to state thank you to everyone that has contributed responses in this thread so far. It is has been very thought provoking and given me much to consider.

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## Travis Fentiman (Feb 4, 2021)

chuckd said:


> Maybe too rudimentary of a question, but what is demon possession?



Peter van Mastricht, Dutch reformed, d. 1706

Unfinished translation by Todd Rester & Michael Spangler, _Theoretical-Practical Theology_, vol. 3, ch. 8​​XV. Moreover, they [demons] especially are accustomed to exert their efficacy and cruelty in bodily possession (for there is also spiritual possession, an example of which is evident in the case of the betrayer in John 13:27, which indeed is much more dangerous , although not so terrifying), when they take over a person’s body, and use his members, tongue, and hands according to their pleasure, miserably torment him, and drive him to such things which he naturally could not say or do, of which there is more frequent mention made in the gospel history, at the coming of Christ (Matt. 4:24; 8:16, 22; 9:32; 12:22; 15:22; Luke 24:3, 6; Acts 13:8), perhaps because Jesus the Savior wanted to demonstrate his own authority over demons, not only with respect to the human soul, but also with respect to the body, in healing demoniacs.​
Such are customarily called energumens, because Satan works particularly in them, and they seem to be distinguished into demoniacs and lunatics (John 10:20; Matt. 17:15; cf. Luke 9:39), because Satan frequently abuses the humors of the lunatic for his own use.​​It seems we should seek the causes of this evil not only from diabolical wickedness, but also from the proper merits of sinners, by which they have already rendered themselves slaves of Satan, as well as from the just wrath of God, by which this judgment seems to have been meted out to Saul, and perhaps also from grace, so that they might deeply perceive the bitterness of sin, and from this return to a sounder mind (1 Cor. 5:5). See the famous Voetius in his Disputations, “On the Possessed.”​
['Humors' referred to bodily fluids, which they thought, when they got out of balance, could result in or produce physical sicknesses. Think of hormones today in the blood, and when they get out of balance. Mastricht's point is that he recognized 'lunatics' to be people afflicted by natural mental illness, but the devil could wreak havoc on them due to their compromised physical and mental state through influencing their bodily health, or hormones, or 'humors'.​​I work in a psych facility as a nurse, and I believe this is possible, and possibly or likely takes place.]​


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## hLuke (Feb 4, 2021)

_This instance might be confronting for some so read with caution_

I cannot offer an intellectual account, but I have testimonial experience which God Himself knows I truthfully and faithfully present to you. I have had a firsthand encounter with demonic possession and an even stranger follow up instance happened to my identical twin brother. I was possessed by a demon myself. About three years ago when I was 16, I was with my dad and he, being a Christian clinical psychologist and working in psychiatry for years, probably thought I was experiencing a psychosis. 
I remember the event vividly. A visible spirit entered my body and I became exceptionally angry, I felt powerful like I could easily lift up a car, I felt like I could run away at unimaginable speeds; I temporarily had superhuman like power, and I abhorred the presence of my earthly father beside me. Anyways despite the distress I was in and the confusion he evidently faced, and the fact that he had previously indicated his gift in spiritual healing to me (a bit strange in retrospect); my first instinct was to ask him to pray. 
He took me to a nearby park and placed his hand on me commanding the devil out of me. I remember the overwhelming power of that prayer especially when he mentioned 'Father in the name of your Holy Son... Jesus'. Anyways the demon came out of my body and I actually saw an image of Christ holding a lamb. This lasted about five minutes but seemed forever. And an overwhelming sense of peace came over me.
But the next week or so were painful. For the first few days after the exorcism, I was constantly spitting out a sour substance. It was like I was getting all the junk out of my body. In addition, I would have horrible blasphemous thoughts whenever I came near to the bible. Reading portions in the book of Revelation where Satan's name was mentioned almost made me spew up (literally gave me physical illness). But now by the grace of our Lord Jesus, I am free and at peace. I have no mental health diagnosis and am now an avid reader. For extra insight, here were some of my circumstances before that demonic possession:

I was a p0rn addict
I was a professing 'Christian' who blasphemed and acted like the most pitiable child of hell
I watched horror films
I ate junk food
I played videogames for hours on end 
Now more recently, almost a year ago, my identical twin brother had a psychosis. I will not state the specific details of that psychosis because I feel it is too confronting, personal, and brings back trauma for me. Anyways he went to the ward safely under the hand of the doctor. A few weeks later I finally managed to have conversation with him and he insisted that Satan was inside him. While having clear elements of delusions and hallucinations, I believe some were supernatural because his behaviour was contrary to the thoughts he was having. My dad too being a professional in this field felt the same. He had to persuade the doctor that his prognosis was more complex than the standard. 
My brother after receiving extra prayer from family members, at his own request went to visit a local exorcist. This unfortunately was unsuccessful. He still, being fervent in faith, went again. Another unsuccessful exorcism. To this day what happened to me and my brother, Reece, still bemuses me. 
He is btw getting better slowly by the grace of God, but he's bedridden. And our relationship and love has been strengthened in the Lord which brings me joy!
"And we know that for those who love God all things work together for good, for those who are called according to his purpose" Rom 8:28

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## Jeri Tanner (Feb 4, 2021)

hLuke said:


> I actually saw an image of Christ


This gives me great pause.

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## hLuke (Feb 4, 2021)

Jeri Tanner said:


> This gives me great pause.


It is a detail that needs more context. I bizarrely had a picture of Jesus on my lock screen, and I saw that exact image once the devil was cast out of me. I know it is hard to believe.
The preciseness and creativity of God's wisdom is mesmerising. I didn't include this in my original post because it would be too hard to explain, and I don't want to be guilty of idolatry, let alone bringing the glory of an immortal God down to a manmade image. Either way that picture was used for His glory. Even though it obviously wasn't Him in His eternality, it certainly demonstrated His presence in a miraculous way.

Here's a link to that picture:


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## Travis Fentiman (Feb 4, 2021)

hLuke said:


> _This instance might be confronting for some so read with caution_




hLuke,

Thank you so much for your testimony. I am wondering a few things, if you are able to elaborate a bit more on:

Your exorcism in relation to coming to trust in Christ to deliver you and forgive you of your sins. Also at what point do you believe you came to real spiritual life, and whether you began to walk with the Lord thereafter?​​Did your brother have any medical/mental issues before that psychosis? Does it seem clear he was not a sincere believer at that time, walking with the Lord?

Do you believe he is now a born-again believer, with spiritual fruit in his life? or maybe not, or not sure? Is he making attempts to trust the Lord and walk with Him?

Is he on meds?​​Thanks again for sharing your experience with these things brother.

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## Jeri Tanner (Feb 4, 2021)

hLuke said:


> It is a detail that needs more context. I bizarrely had a picture of Jesus on my lock screen, and I saw that exact image once the devil was cast out of me. I know it is hard to believe.
> The preciseness and creativity of God's wisdom is mesmerising. I didn't include this in my original post because it would be too hard to explain, and I don't want to be guilty of idolatry, let alone bringing the glory of an immortal God down to a manmade image. Either way that picture was used for His glory. Even though it obviously wasn't Him in His eternality, it certainly demonstrated His presence in a miraculous way.
> 
> Here's a link to that picture:


To clarify, the reason I said that your story gives me pause is because images of Christ are forbidden in the 2nd commandment. Any image of the 2nd person of the Trinity that someone claims to have seen cannot be of God.

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## hLuke (Feb 4, 2021)

Travis Fentiman said:


> hLuke,
> 
> Thank you so much for your testimony. I am wondering a few things, if you are able to elaborate a bit more on:
> 
> Your exorcism in relation to coming to trust in Christ to deliver you and forgive you of your sins. Also at what point do you believe you came to real spiritual life, and whether you began to walk with the Lord thereafter?​​Did your brother have any medical/mental issues before that psychosis? Does it seem clear he was not a sincere believer at that time, walking with the Lord?​​Do you believe he is now a born-again believer, with spiritual fruit in his life? or maybe not, or not sure? Is he making attempts to trust the Lord and walk with Him?​​Is he on meds?​​Thanks again for sharing your experience with these things brother.


Thanks so much for responding, Travis. I will answer your questions in as much detail as possible given the time I have before I go to work.

1. I was a churchgoer before the exorcism but didn't know God. After a few months of spiritual warfare I had a born again experience which I remember vividly. I was baptised with the Spirit. But I still didn't know the gospel in great detail. I really began to feel the presence of Christ when I read the NT fervently and realised his redeeming work in me. His Providence is evident throughout my life which I believe is a telling sign of being in the faith, but certainly something that shouldn't define trust in Christ. Likewise I feel God, but this too is the same. Ever since, I have been devoted to Christ: _He has been devoted to me. _I enjoy reading theology, apologetics, and philosphy. Some notable authors are J.I Packer, John Piper, Spurgeon, Aquinas, Sproul, and C.S Lewis. At the moment I'm reading 'The Problem of Pain' by C.S Lewis.
I also went to study Theology at Trinity College, Melbourne but the course was hyper critical and liberal. It was in my view more designed for secular academics than anything else. But most importantly aside from the intellectual, I am in Christ.

2. My brother is ok. He does regular checkups with the doctor and at the moment he is taking Risperidone. He is not able to express himself in detail but his communication is succinct, simple and indeed wise. I don't think he had any mental problems before the psychosis. The initial test shortly after the psychosis indicated he took meth, and shortly thereafter the doctor indicated he was having religious delusions to which my dad denied, and because he worked there once, passionately persuaded the doctor not to put him in the ward. But my brother fervently denies taking meth and he is frankly not the person to touch drugs. We still don't know what caused his psychosis and he is reluctant to tell. He is probably still hearing voices at the moment and possibly hallucinating too. At the time when he had the psychosis, he read the bible a lot. In my opinion, I dare say, too much. He would spend upwards of three hours a day reading and he had an extremely literal view of scripture to the extent that anything outside the word was evil or at least he would compare everything he came across with scripture. And he carried a Gideon's bible everywhere. 
I really don't know if he's born again. I have asked him multiple times in recent months and he's not certain. What I do know is that at the time shortly before the psychosis he thought God as a legalistic judge waiting to pounce at any sin. This was unfortunate and the family tried to inform him that God was gracious but he would resort again to his wrong definition of 'fearing' God.

I regularly ask him about his scripture reading and he is passionate about Christ. I do think he has a zeal for God, but I couldn't definitely say he is regenerate. I would sayhe is more likely than not born again, however. By grace the medicine is working and he is getting better each day. 

Thanks again for your curiosity


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## hLuke (Feb 4, 2021)

Jeri Tanner said:


> To clarify, the reason I said that your story gives me pause is because images of Christ are forbidden in the 2nd commandment. Any image of the 2nd person of the Trinity that someone claims to have seen cannot be of God.


Well it was from God. I respect your view though and I too believe that images of Christ are dangerous, but I'm very reluctant to say they cannot be from God.
For more, countless Muslims have dreams and visions about Jesus one of which was abused and raped by his dad and when he had the rope tied around his neck to hang himself he saw Jesus like a loving Father embracing him. Save for a different topic.

I don't think he was lying, neither am I.
But I again respect your view.


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## NaphtaliPress (Feb 4, 2021)

Thread closed for review.
**Thread will stay closed.**

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