# What is a person?



## chuckd (Apr 24, 2012)

I'm looking for a good book on Christian metaphysics defining personhood...both in the Trinity and humans. How they relate? How they differ? etc.


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## Claudiu (May 7, 2012)

I asked something similar to this over here: http://www.puritanboard.com/f50/personal-identity-70745/

It's hard to find Christian resources on this. Honestly I haven't looked in a while, but if I do come across something I'll let you know.


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## Peairtach (May 7, 2012)

Surely a person is a rational being. 

God, the angels, the devils, and humans are all persons, and the fact that they are rational beings is what they have in common.


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## Claudiu (May 7, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> Surely a person is a rational being.
> 
> God, the angels, the devils, and humans are all persons, and the fact that they are rational beings is what they have in common.



What about people who are in a coma (and can't reason)?


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## Peairtach (May 7, 2012)

Claudiu said:


> Peairtach said:
> 
> 
> > Surely a person is a rational being.
> ...



They're still persons also. They have just temporarily lost their powers of reason - because of the ravages of the curse - and will recover them in this life or the next.


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## VictorBravo (May 7, 2012)

In addition to attributes of reason or self-awareness, the term person is used to distinguish like identities from one another.

For example: there are three humans. Each one of them is a person because, although they are all humans and alike, they are distinct from one another.

Another example: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God, yet they are distinguishable from one another in the senses set out in Scripture, so we use the term "person" to describe them individually when discussing distinctions between them.


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## Peairtach (May 7, 2012)

Which is another reason why we can't describe animals as persons. They aren't distinct enough, although some of them believe themselves to be persons:

Talking Dogs - Want My Mama - YouTube

These poor doggies, not getting their treats unless they speak for crazy women!


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## chuckd (May 7, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> Claudiu said:
> 
> 
> > Peairtach said:
> ...



Another example...what about infants or fetuses who never rationalized due to death? Do they gain their powers of reason after death or do they simply not exist similar to animals?


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## VictorBravo (May 7, 2012)

chuckd said:


> Another example...what about infants or fetuses who never rationalized due to death? Do they gain their powers of reason after death or do they simply not exist similar to animals?



I think the best way to think about it is to think of their nature. If they are human, and if they are perfected in glory, then they will have all the attributes that any perfect human would have--and they would have their own distinct "personness".


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## thbslawson (May 8, 2012)

Eternally, there are the persons of the Godhead. Humans are created in the image and likeness of God, and therefore are bearers of His personhood. Therefore I would surmise that all humans, regardless of capacity, from conception on are "persons."

Regarding angels and demons, I'd have to give it some thought.


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## jwright82 (May 14, 2012)

chuckd said:


> I'm looking for a good book on Christian metaphysics defining personhood...both in the Trinity and humans. How they relate? How they differ? etc.



First off keep in mind that you are asking a question that is very complicated. It is even more complicated by the fact there is no set definition of “person”. In ordinary language we just “know” what we mean by the term by what it refers to and not a set list of properties. It was not until the contemporary debates over abortion and the animal rights movement that this common word was argued over. 

Even the ancient creeds were less a definition of “person” and more a boundary for the Trinitarian mystery. All that said what you are asking about is a smaller question in a larger philosophical problem. You might have better luck by looking for a philosophical anthropology instead of the narrow question of “what is a person”. The best work, not without its problems, in this area is this book: 
Amazon.com: Desiring the Kingdom: Worship, Worldview, and Cultural Formation (Cultural Liturgies) (9780801035777): James K.A. Smith: Books

In it James Smith challenges our predominant “spirit/reason” view of humans (we are what we think) and introduces an Augustinian view (we are what we love). It is a holistic approach that takes into consideration our thinking as well as our embodied (physical) existence. 

As far as the Trinity goes I would be weary of philosophers on this one because they are going to inevitably apply philosophical ideas of “personhood” (which is currently in dispute) that may or may not apply to the Godhead. Theologians are tasked with studying God’s divine self-revelation in scripture to settle these things. The ancient creeds used philosophical categories to explain, as best they could, what we may know from scripture. But these are always human concepts that must be justified by scripture before they can be applied to God. What makes a person a person will be similar when applied to God and humans but it will be different as well. This is called an analogical relation. 

Dooyeweerd and Vollenhoven did us a service by limiting scientific and philosophical questions to creation only. They took Calvin’s and Kuyper’s ideas and worked out a philosophy on this. We cannot ask philosophical questions about God we can only scientifically and philosophically study his self-revelation in scripture to know anything about him. They, and their followers, took these ideas into weird directions but even at their worst they had something to teach us.


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## Gesetveemet (May 17, 2012)

chuckd said:


> I'm looking for a good book on Christian metaphysics defining personhood...both in the Trinity and humans. How they relate? How they differ? etc.



There is a good chapter on man becoming a living soul.



> Knowing God and Man
> by Herman Hoeksema
> 152 pages
> softcover
> ...



Reformed Free Publishing Association


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## Peairtach (May 17, 2012)

VictorBravo said:


> In addition to attributes of reason or self-awareness, the term person is used to distinguish like identities from one another.
> 
> For example: there are three humans. Each one of them is a person because, although they are all humans and alike, they are distinct from one another.
> 
> Another example: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are God, yet they are distinguishable from one another in the senses set out in Scripture, so we use the term "person" to describe them individually when discussing distinctions between them.



That's true as well, Victor.

I was thinking about aspects such as being made in God's image and likeness, but what the persons of the Trinity, human beings, angels and demons have in common is their reason. 

The personhood of human beings, angels and demons will be analogical - as James points out - to the personhood of the Trinity, but we are only told that human beings have this distinction of being made in God's image. Although all the angels were originally made holy, we are not told that they have the privilege of being made in God's image like Man.

Human beings/persons all share (or "share") the same human nature, but the Persons of the Holy Triunity truly share the Divine Nature (Godhead or "Godhood") in a very different way.


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