# Help Me Explain Eurocentrism



## LadyFlynt (Jul 24, 2007)

Could someone help me explain this. I keep trying, but running into "I don't understand". The group I am speaking to are mostly arminian (I think the only ones that have a clue as to what I am saying aren't arminian).

We were speaking of the Arts, after having a music debate (not neccessarily worship music...but music in general, starting with CCM).

This is the article from a man that was recommended. I called the man eurocentric and full of opinion, then went on from there. http://www.earnestlycontending.com/lilacsandbutterflies/spectaculars/2003/goodandbadmusic.html


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## Coram Deo (Jul 24, 2007)

For the most part I can agree with what he is saying regarding music. Expect on the minor key issue.... (Maybe it is because I am greatly moved by minor key pieces) 

Alot of what he said was also said by Pastor Al Martin of Montville Reformed Baptist Church in one of his sermons on Rock Music... Of Course Al Martin is a Calvinist Preacher....

The article you quoted made references to Wine and other things which I disagree with....

Anyway, I will give it a better reading later and might write more on it....

Michael




LadyFlynt said:


> Could someone help me explain this. I keep trying, but running into "I don't understand". The group I am speaking to are mostly arminian (I think the only ones that have a clue as to what I am saying aren't arminian).
> 
> We were speaking of the Arts, after having a music debate (not neccessarily worship music...but music in general, starting with CCM).
> 
> This is the article from a man that was recommended. I called the man eurocentric and full of opinion, then went on from there. http://www.earnestlycontending.com/lilacsandbutterflies/spectaculars/2003/goodandbadmusic.html


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 24, 2007)

Thank you.

I took issue with his references to 'African Drums'...claiming that there were two types of music (Marches vs. the rest) and the March tunes are the only acceptable. This was a drastic stretch and cannot be proven by scripture. Neither is there anything wrong with music that "makes you want to move or tap your foot"...does it appeal to the flesh? Yes. But so does "Marching" tunes.

The whole of the article seemed to be one man's opinions with no REAL guidance from scripture.


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## Davidius (Jul 24, 2007)

LadyFlynt said:


> This is the article from a man that was recommended. I called the man eurocentric and full of opinion, then went on from there. http://www.earnestlycontending.com/lilacsandbutterflies/spectaculars/2003/goodandbadmusic.html





And you were right to call him full of opinion, although I'm not quite sure what you mean by eurocentric. It may be one of the most ludicrous articles I've ever read.

To clarify, I like some of his conclusions (e.g. we shouldn't use "the kids' music" to "reach" the kids), but his methods are horrible and, in this case, the ends do not justify the means.


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## Coram Deo (Jul 24, 2007)

I admit that what he is trying to say is not coming across very clearly.. He is not trying to say that African drums are evil, but how those african drums are played is... I do think what he is trying to say about march music vs. everything is a bit off....

He is trying to convey that the beats and the music that african groups play on those drums are sensual and heathenistic paganism. In other words Devil music.

Example from scripture would be in Exodus 32:17-19

And when Joshua heard the nise of the people as they shouted, he said unto Moses, There is a noise of war in the camp.

And he said, It is not the voice of them that sh0out for mastery, neither is it the voice of them that cry for being overcome: but the noise of them that sing do I hear.

And it came to pass, as soon as he came nigh unto the camp, that he saw the calf, and the dancing: and Moses' anger waxed hot, and he cast the tables out of his hands, and brake them beneath the mount.

It was a paganistic music and dancing that sounded like a noise of war in the camp. It was sensual, and it was devil music and they danced sensually to worship this golden calf. So does the African drum music which is based in Voodoo and paganistic Heathen Worship. It is sensual and it is like a noise of War in the camp. Anyone who studies music and the the source of different music knows that Rock music is based on the African Pagan Music which is based in Heathenism and Voodooism.

My wife has made a life study of music and all it's sources and she mostlikely can say all this better then I can.... She was also a leader at a christian camp for youth down in South Carolina for anumber of summers and taught the young teenage ladies about music and how to know Good from Bad music.. The camp was big on holiness in music..

Al Martin has a sermon regarding music that talks about the demon possessed man in Matthew, let me see if I can find it... I forgot alot of what he said, but it was very relevant to this topic regarding African drum music and such......

To be Continued....


LadyFlynt said:


> Thank you.
> 
> I took issue with his references to 'African Drums'...claiming that there were two types of music (Marches vs. the rest) and the March tunes are the only acceptable. This was a drastic stretch and cannot be proven by scripture. Neither is there anything wrong with music that "makes you want to move or tap your foot"...does it appeal to the flesh? Yes. But so does "Marching" tunes.
> 
> The whole of the article seemed to be one man's opinions with no REAL guidance from scripture.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 24, 2007)

The problem therein lies in the assumption that ALL Africans play the drums a certain way and for the same heathenistic purposes. This leaves out context and reality.

Can you tell me that:

Christian Africans don't use drums
or
Christian Africans have converted to playing drums only in a European style
?

(Someone from Africa help me out  )

I refuse to make those assumptions.

I lived in the Pacific. Some of their music is adopted into how they glorify the Lord...they didn't just adopt the European model. It may be a mix, but not to the extinction of the other. And the Europeans even have pagan backgrounds that have influenced their culture...those long ago and mostly not remembered.



Here is what I wrote:


> What is the purpose of music? Is it only to be used for one thing?
> 
> What is the purpose of painting/drawing? Is it only to be used for one thing?
> 
> ...





> All four are forms of Expression. God made us emotional people. We share these emotions. Preferably we share the more positive ones...some emotions we only share with certain people and should be kept private, but that does not make the sharing sinful. A love letter or a love song. We also share our emotions about our faith.
> 
> All four are forms of Record. We are a people with a history and many histories. We cannot learn from the past unless we know the past. God has given us a Record of our beginnings and His Plan in the Scriptures. Not all things are good or true or necessary to record. But not all things recorded will be positive or appear holy in the smaller picture, but only if it can be tied to the larger picture of seeing Providence at work. The Puritans encouraged journal keeping...to keep a record of how the Lord was working in their lives in even the seemingly smallest of matters. Histories are passed down in writings, in song, in dance, and in pictures.
> 
> ...




And of course we now arguing dancing as well. Broadbrush being used there also.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 24, 2007)

I agree with what you said, Michael, about the majority of Rock music (there is music labeled rock that does not follow the model however).


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## Dieter Schneider (Jul 25, 2007)

The following site may be of some interest. Please click here


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 25, 2007)

Okay, that is still what I'm trying to get at with music.

The article claims that music can never be amoral. Is it moral or immoral to sing about bringing in a harvest or tell of one's love? I find it to be neither, unless context added to it makes it so. But in general, no.


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## sotzo (Jul 25, 2007)

> This is the article from a man that was recommended. I called the man eurocentric and full of opinion, then went on from there. http://www.earnestlycontending.com/lilacsandbutterflies/spectaculars/2003/goodandbadmusic.html



That article is the exegetical equivalent of a Chick tract. Here is one example:

"We are spirit, soul, and body, and God has given us music to bless us spirit, soul, and body. Here’s how it fits together: There are only three parts to music, because God made music, and He made music to be a blessing to man. 1 Thessalonians 5:23--...and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. All that we are is affected by music." The writer then goes on to say there are precisely three parts of music (melody, harmony and rhythm) and that each of these correspond to either the spirit, soul and body. 

That is a completely unfaithful and dishonest interpretation of that text.

One of the most arrogant statements the writer makes is this:

"But beyond that, it is the rhythm in the song that determines if it is right or wrong. I hope you understand this. When you hear sensual, worldly rhythms in a song, just cut it off. It’s not going to help." These are the sorts of "Christian" diatribes that fail to take seriously the value of music, rock, classical and otherwise by adding laws into the Bible. Good grief...we've been saved from this kind of rule keeping drivel (as Paul says in Galatians, "how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years!") 

Should we use wisdom when listening to music? Of course. Should we flee from sin? Absolutely. Should we equally shun Pharisaical preaching that would condemn listening to all forms of music that contained a certain rhythm? Categorically, 100% yes...especially if such is done under the banner of the Gospel.


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## LadyFlynt (Jul 25, 2007)

This subject has been the nail in the coffin on my participation at that particular board.

Joel, thank you. I wish I could counter it with better than bringing Jack Chick into it. These are the kind of people that love him.


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## sotzo (Jul 25, 2007)

LadyFlynt said:


> This subject has been the nail in the coffin on my participation at that particular board.
> 
> Joel, thank you. I wish I could counter it with better than bringing Jack Chick into it. These are the kind of people that love him.



Perhaps one way to come at it with those folks is Romans 14. I love that chapter of Scripture because God is saying we are ultimately to approach one another in love...not thinking of ourselves first, but the other...because one's relationship with Christ, and their individual conscience in that relationship, trumps anything I may want to enjoy. I've sometimes used this approach in speaking to fellow believers when they are hard core about insisting the Bible teaches something that is doesn't....grace and wisdom sometimes backs them up to re-evaluate their position...meanwhile they see that if their conscience burns we won't insist they partake.


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