# Survey on Intinction Now Available on ByFaithOnline



## Covenant Joel (Jul 17, 2012)

If you're interested, fill out the survey on intinction here:

http://byfaithonline.com/byfaith-survey-is-intinction-appropriate/


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 17, 2012)

Are you only supposed to fill out the survey if you are an elder?


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## Covenant Joel (Jul 18, 2012)

I don't think so. Though one of the survey questions asks how you would vote if it came to your presbytery. But nothing in the instructions says you need to be an elder.


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## Unoriginalname (Jul 18, 2012)

Covenant Joel said:


> I don't think so. Though one of the survey questions asks how you would vote if it came to your presbytery. But nothing in the instructions says you need to be an elder.


That was the question that had caused me to question the intended audience of the survey.


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## Romans922 (Jul 18, 2012)

Josh, 

That's the way the PCA works. We get what everyone thinks and then we decide what to do.



Instead of the old fashion way: What does God say? Okay, that's what we'll do/believe.


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## Romans922 (Jul 18, 2012)

Yes, the survey means nothing. Church courts work this out.


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## Scott1 (Jul 18, 2012)

I'm not sure that it is the place of a denominational magazine to unilaterally poll a matter of doctrine, one specifically given to Ministers (Word and sacrament). Add to that the very limited circulation of the magazine. Not sure what guided their development of the questions, under what supervision, or even what the purpose intended was. The spiritual court did not authorize a poll. Did an employee of a denominational agency just unilaterally decide to this?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Jul 18, 2012)

There is also no filter on this survey. Anyone can take it.


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## Covenant Joel (Jul 18, 2012)

I think it best not to speculate about the intended purpose/agenda/etc behind the survey. If you have thoughts, there's plenty of spots on the survey to give them. One of the things that I wrote is that I thought it would be more helpful (than a survey) to have a video roundtable of several proponents/opponents discussing the issue so that we could see the best theological/exegetical approaches to the question.


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## Scott1 (Jul 18, 2012)

The problem is this is not the way doctrine is determined in Christ's church. An open survey (we don't even know it is restricted to Christians, let alone PCA, let alone people who even understand the issue). The proponents/opponents are in the Scripture, look at the Lord's instruction to His people of separately contemplating His broken body and shed blood.
If it's a theological debate, we don't have a pop forum survey to decide.
This is business of a church council, spiritual court, General Assembly, not one of popular (lay?) (nonreformed?) (unbeliever?) (uniformed?) opinion.

In the Presbyterianism, elders are called and qualified to determine this, not surveys of magazine readers.

Who authorized this?

This is a complete waste of time.... and harmful.


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## Covenant Joel (Jul 18, 2012)

Scott1 said:


> The problem is this is not the way doctrine is determined in Christ's church. An open survey (we don't even know it is restricted to Christians, let alone PCA, let alone people who even understand the issue). The proponents/opponents are in the Scripture, look at the Lord's instruction to His people of separately contemplating His broken body and shed blood.
> If it's a theological debate, we don't have a pop forum survey to decide.
> This is business of a church council, spiritual court, General Assembly, not one of popular (lay?) (nonreformed?) (unbeliever?) (uniformed?) opinion.
> 
> ...



It may be a waste of time. It is not taking away from the work of the church. It's a survey, merely to get some comments on what various people across the PCA think about the issue. I would imagine they will put together an article based on responses that suggests some of the reasons people are for and against the issue of intinction. I don't think we need to read some attempt to supplant the working of the church into this.

All that is not to say it isn't a waste of time. It likely won't have any significant impact on the discussion at all, which is probably another reason we shouldn't get too hot and bothered about it.


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## interalia (Jul 19, 2012)

It's a survey to garner opinion from those who choose to participate; not a coup. I think several of you are reading/inferring far too much into this. The organizers lack authority since they do not consitute a church court, but there is no prohibition on the gathering of (flawed) data and (perhaps valuable) opinions.


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## Scott1 (Jul 19, 2012)

interalia said:


> It's a survey to garner opinion from those who choose to participate



Is this how the Apostle's did it?

An additional problem is this is a denomination magazine, one that has a very limited circulation even within it, paid for by tithes and offerings, and there is a constitutional amendment before the spiritual court.

We don't need "opinions" of who knows who to decide a matter before the spiritual court.

How is a layman going to direct how the Lord's Supper is dispensed?

Who authorized this use of denominational funds?


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## Scott1 (Jul 19, 2012)

Covenant Joel said:


> It is not taking away from the work of the church.



It sure is, this is being paid for by our tithe money, and under apparent quasi-judicial authority.


Covenant Joel said:


> It likely won't have any significant impact on the discussion at all,



Then what were its planners intending it to do?

Is it designed strictly to sow controversy and division in order to sell a few more magazines?


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## Edward (Jul 19, 2012)

Scott1 said:


> sell a few more magazines



It's my recollection that the magazine is now free, as they couldn't sell enough to maintain ad revenue.


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## Romans922 (Jul 19, 2012)

Edward, 

byFaith is funded by the Administrative Committee of the PCA. Those who work for it are paid, they don't volunteer. No free-ness here.


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## Covenant Joel (Jul 19, 2012)

Scott1 said:


> It sure is, this is being paid for by our tithe money, and under apparent quasi-judicial authority.



Still not sure how that takes away from the work of the church. ByFaith's mandate, as I understand it, is to keep PCA churches informed and connected on things of interest in the denomination. I would think that this fits that bill. It would be quite different if they posted articles only in favor of one side pushing an agenda.



> Then what were its planners intending it to do?
> 
> Is it designed strictly to sow controversy and division in order to sell a few more magazines?



I'm not saying they didn't want it to have an effect. They probably do. I just don't know that it will, because I doubt it will be that widely taken or read.

That seems like quite an impugning of motives to them. I think we should just all calm down about this. They put out a survey. If you don't think they should, then write them and tell them so.


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## Scott1 (Jul 19, 2012)

Covenant Joel said:


> Still not sure how that takes away from the work of the church



Because it is the job of General Assembly to determine matters of doctrine and practice, particularly that of ministers of word and sacrament (teaching elders) as a spiritual court, not be means of a pop "survey" of who knows who by a denomination agency, acting unilaterally.

This is particularly true when a constitutional matter is pending before the spiritual court.


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## Scott1 (Jul 19, 2012)

Covenant Joel said:


> I'm not saying they didn't want it to have an effect. They probably do



You illustrate the problem, who is "they" and on what authority do "they" seek to influence or control discussion of a spiritual court by means outside of it.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 19, 2012)

Thread closed. If you don't like the idea of the survey, let byfaith know.


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