# Did God create sin?



## ServantofGod (Nov 29, 2006)

(So this has probably been asked a million times...)


Here is my problem: God, who is all-knowing and all-wise created Lucifer, who would fall away into sin.

God creates everything for a purpose, so He created Satan for a purpose. Satan existed in a completely perfect and holy spirit realm, with sin non-existent. God had planned all of history from His place in eterntiy. Nothing exists that God did not create. Sin did not exist, yet Satan still fell? Did God harden Satan's heart to fall? He had to. Nothing happens outside of God's purpose, and all that He has planned comes to pass.


Any thoughts?


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 30, 2006)

This is going to sound over simplistic, but it's ALL for God's glory.


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## Puritan Sailor (Nov 30, 2006)

Sin is not a thing so God didn't "create" it. It is a moral condition. It is a transgression of God's law. Man and the angels were made free in their original states. They were able to sin or not sin. God overruled their disobedience for His own glory but He didn't cause their disobedience. They lost their freedom when they fell into sin. Here's some portions of the Confession. Think these over for a bit. 

WCF Ch. III 
On God's Eternal Decree
I. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass:[1] yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin,[2] nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established.[3]

1. Psa. 33:11: Eph. 1:11: Heb. 6:17
2. Psa. 5:4; James 1:13-14; I John 1:5; see Hab. 1:13
3. Acts 2:23; 4:27-28: Matt. 17:12; John 19:11; Prov. 16:33

II. Although God knows whatsoever may or can come to pass upon all supposed conditions,[4] yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.[5]

4. I Sam. 23:11-12; Matt. 11:21-23
5. Rom. 9:11, 13, 16, 18

III. By the decree of God, for the manifestation of his glory, some men and angels[6] are predestinated unto everlasting life; and others foreordained to everlasting death.[7]

6. I Tim 5:21; Jude 1:6; Matt. 25:31, 41
7. Eph. 1:5-6; Rom. 9:22-23; Prov. 16:4

IV. These angels and men, thus predestinated, and foreordained, are particularly and unchangeably designed, and their number so certain and definite, that it cannot be either increased or diminished.[8]

8. John 10:14-16, 27-28; 13:18; 17:2, 6, 9-12; II Tim. 2:19

V. Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen, in Christ, unto everlasting glory,[9] out of his mere free grace and love, without any foresight of faith, or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto;[10] and all to the praise of his glorious grace.[12]

9. Eph. 1:4, 9, 11; Rom. 8:28-30; II Tim. 1:9; I Thess. 5:9
10. Rom. 9:11, 13, 15-16; see Eph. 1:5, 9, 11; 2:8-9
11. Eph. 1:6, 12

VI. As God hath appointed the elect unto glory, so hath he, by the eternal and most free purpose of his will, foreordained all the means thereunto.[12] Wherefore, they who are elected, being fallen in Adam, are redeemed by Christ,[13] are effectually called unto faith in Christ by his Spirit working in due season, are justified, adopted, sanctified,[14] and kept by his power, through faith, unto salvation.[15] Neither are any other redeemed by Christ, effectually called, justified, adopted, sanctified, and saved, but the elect only.[16]

12. I Peter 1:2; Eph. 2:10; II Thess. 2:13
13. I Thess. 5:9-10; Titus 2:14
14. Rom. 8:30; see Eph. 1:5; II Thess. 2:13
15. I Peter 1:5
16. John 4:47, 6:64-65, 10:14-15 & 26, 17:9; Rom. 8:28-39; I John 2:19

VII. The rest of mankind God was pleased, according to the unsearchable counsel of his own will, whereby he extendeth or withholdeth mercy, as he pleaseth, for the glory of his sovereign power over his creatures, to pass by; and to ordain them to dishonor and wrath for their sin, to the praise of his glorious justice.[17]

17. Matt. 11:25-26; Rom. 9:17-18, 21-22; Jude 1:4; I Peter 2:8; II Tim. 2:19-20

VIII. The doctrine of this high mystery of predestination is to be handled with special prudence and care,[18] that men, attending the will of God revealed in his Word, and yielding obedience thereunto, may, from the certainty of their effectual vocation, be assured of their eternal election.[19] So shall this doctrine afford matter of praise, reverence, and admiration of God;[20] and of humility, diligence, and abundant consolation to all that sincerely obey the gospel.[21] 

18. Rom. 9:20; 11:33; Deut. 29:29
19. II Peter 1:10; I Thess. 1:4-5
20. Eph. 1:6; see Rom. 11:33
21. Rom. 8:33; 11:5-6, 20; Luke 10:20; see II Peter 1:10

WCF Ch. IX
On Free Will
I. God hath endued the will of man with that natural liberty, that it is neither forced, nor, by any absolute necessity of nature, determined to good, or evil.[1]

1. James 1:13-14; 4:7; Deut. 30:19; Isa. 7:11-12; Matt. 17:12; John 5:40

II. Man, in his state of innocency, had freedom, and power to will and to do that which was good and well pleasing to God;[2] but yet, mutably, so that he might fall from it.[3]

2. Eccl. 7:29; Gen. 1:26, 31; Col. 3:10
3. Gen. 2:16-17; 3:6, 17

III. Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath wholly lost all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying salvation:[4] so as, a natural man, being altogether averse from that good,[5] and dead in sin,[6] is not able, by his own strength, to convert himself, or to prepare himself thereunto.[7]

4. Rom. 5:5; 8:7-8; John 6:44, 65; 15:5
5. Rom. 3:9-10, 12, 23
6. Eph. 2:1, 5; Col 2:13
7. John 3:3, 5-6; 6:44, 65; I Cor. 2:14; Titus 3:3-5

IV. When God converts a sinner, and translates him into the state of grace, he freeth him from his natural bondage under sin;[8] and, by his grace alone, enables him freely to will and to do that which is spiritually good;[9] yet so, as that by reason of his remaining corruption, he doth not perfectly, nor only, will that which is good, but doth also will that which is evil.[10]

8. Col. 1:13; John 8:34, 36; Rom. 6:6-7
9. Phil. 2:13; Rom. 6:14, 17-19, 22
10. Gal. 5:17; Rom. 7:14-25; I John 1:8, 10

V. The will of man is made perfectly and immutably free to good alone, in the state of glory only.[11]

11. Heb. 12:23; I John 3:2; Jude 1:24; Rev. 21:27


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## ServantofGod (Nov 30, 2006)

Good stuff to think on! Thanks.


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## panta dokimazete (Nov 30, 2006)

one other thought - I break existence into 2 states:

1. "of God"
2. "not of God"

God's plan allows for "not of God" to exist in order to refine the elect and to further glorify His holiness.


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## BobVigneault (Nov 30, 2006)

Hebrews 2:14 Since therefore the children share in flesh and blood, he himself likewise partook of the same things, that through death he might destroy the one who has the *power of death*, that is, the devil, 15 and deliver all those who through fear of death were subject to lifelong slavery.

It seems that from this passage that Satan was created with a 'power' called 'death'. Death was totally foreign to human flesh. I'm still trying to think this through. Could sin also be a 'power' that Satan was created with? This makes Satan the author of sin and it's consequences. All ordained by the Creator of course for his glory. 

Help me think this through. Can will build a doctrine from scripture that 'sin' is a power that Satan was created with that he used in his own envy of God and then used sin and death to infect mankind?


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