# Question for the PB philosophers. When to begin the study of philosophy?



## MMasztal (Aug 8, 2010)

I am looking to add an elective class for my high school students. I currently teach a class on Introduction to logic and Critical thinking and think an intro to philosophy might be beneficial for them. However I'm concerned that philosophy itself may be too complex for 15-17 yo students. 

Any input would be appreciated.


----------



## billy.leonhart (Aug 8, 2010)

It really depends on their comprehension level rather than their age. A child will often surprise you if you are willing to challenge them in the right areas. Personally, I would not divorce the Bible from any teaching of philosophy. Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero might have had some good insights into the "metaphysical" realm, but Moses existed way before any of them, and the truths he wrote about have yet to be discredited. Many who jump headlong into the cesspool of philosophy often overlook that fact. If your children are old enough to understand Moses, they can read Plato. If they have rightly understood them both, they will recognize how vastly superior the Bible is to any ancient text.

Also, I would not suggest starting anywhere other than the earliest philosophers. In order for students to understand Kant, they must understand Descarte. In order for them to undestand Descarte, they must understand Aquinas. In order for them to understand Aquinas, they must understand Augustine, Cicero, Aristotle, and Plato. Thus, it is important to start at the earliest possible philosopher, and read source texts. Also, I would advise that you couple the philosophy class with history classes that explore and provide commentary on the times, cultures, and customs of those philosophers. Context is so important.

In Christ,
Billy
SBC
Texas


----------



## Philip (Aug 9, 2010)

I would suggest a fairly stripped-down introduction focusing on three areas: axiology (ethics and aesthetics---essentially, anything to do with values), metaphysics, and epistemology. Since you are teaching this from a biblical perspective, you can bring up practical examples in theology. For example, when discussing metaphysics, you can talk about free will and determinism, or with epistemology, you can talk about how we know that the Bible is true and that Jesus really did rise from the dead.

As for the standard history of philosophy route of Plato to Derrida, I have my reservations. To do it right, you would really need to make it a full-fledged great books course spanning several years. In any case, an introduction to the basic areas of philosophy is a good idea before tackling the history of philosophy.

As for whether they can handle it: do you think they can? I read Plato's _Republic_ at age 14 and understood it, but I wasn't exactly your average high school student.


----------



## torstar (Aug 9, 2010)

MMasztal said:


> I am looking to add an elective class for my high school students. I currently teach a class on Introduction to logic and Critical thinking and think an intro to philosophy might be beneficial for them. However I'm concerned that the philosophy may be too complex for 15-17 yo students.
> 
> Any input would be appreciated.


 

Ah, the dreaded Intro to Logic philosophy elective...

Signed up for it as a "bird course" in 3rd year because the hours fit well with my commute.

24 years later I vividly recall sweating out a 4 page answer in symbols and code. 

There wasn't 5 minutes of reading what respondents are assuming was in the course (i.e. Kant, Hegel, and friends)

Not what I had bargained for, not at all.

Had the worst luck with electives outside of art history. Matters now (pfffffffffft.)


----------



## jwright82 (Aug 9, 2010)

I think Philip broke it down nicley. As far as a great history of philosophy series to bounce off of I would recomend Fredrick Copleston's history of philosophy series, there is like 7 of them I think. I have one and it is great and thorough.

---------- Post added at 11:39 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------

Also if you can break down into a broad brush (which isn't dificult to do per se) Van Til's, Dooyeweerd's, and Vollenhovan's synopsis and criticism of the history of unbeleiving philosophy it can add a decidedly reformed twist on the whole class. That will also provide nice critical foundations to engage with unbeleiving philosophies, which is a great skill to have.


----------



## CatechumenPatrick (Aug 9, 2010)

There's a very helpful Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article on the prospects and problems in philosophy for children, with an especially nice bibliography: Philosophy for Children (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy). From what I've heard, there's a slowly growing trend to include some philosophy in middle and high school curriculum, with classes like critical thinking and ethics. Presumably, though, if you can teach a child the basics of the shorter catechism, a little philosophy shouldn't be more of a stretch. The bigger problem seems to be getting people--children or adults--to think more in the first place.


----------



## greenbaggins (Aug 9, 2010)

What you need to do, Michael, is get hold of _Looking at Philosophy_, by Donald Palmer. This is the very best introduction to philosophy possible for beginners, because every philosopher is introduced with cartoons that illustrate their beliefs. He does a great job keeping the terms simple and the humor fun. This will help the students actually to like philosophy.


----------



## MMasztal (Aug 9, 2010)

greenbaggins said:


> What you need to do, Michael, is get hold of _Looking at Philosophy_, by Donald Palmer. This is the very best introduction to philosophy possible for beginners, because every philosopher is introduced with cartoons that illustrate their beliefs. He does a great job keeping the terms simple and the humor fun. This will help the students actually to like philosophy.



Thanks, Lane. Palmer's book looks like a good candidate. Since the book has a price tag of $39.00 I've requested Pamer's "Does the Center Hold" from our library so I can get a gist of the style of the book before laying out the $$ for _Looking_.... 

Also, thanks everyone for your input.

One other question. I had sought some input for a book on Hermeneutics for a class I am adding to the high school curriculum. Any suggestions there? The school I teach at is non-demoninational so I probably won't be able to get a polemically reformed book approved by the school committee.


----------



## jwright82 (Aug 9, 2010)

Try Sproul's book _Knowing Scripture_, if I remember correctly it was not polemical at all.


----------



## MMasztal (Aug 9, 2010)

jwright82 said:


> Try Sproul's book _Knowing Scripture_, if I remember correctly it was not polemical at all.


 
Thanks. I have a copy of that and am reviewing it. I just want to consider other options.


----------



## cih1355 (Aug 10, 2010)

You could teach the importance of studying philosophy and how a Christian approach to philosophy is different from a non-Christian approach. Covering the major branches of philosophy such as logic, ethics, epistemology, and metaphysics would help them to understand what philosophy is all about.


----------

