# Can God make himself not exist?



## Matthew1344 (Aug 24, 2014)

Today in Church our text was Gen 50. Our pastor talked bout how God is sovereign.

After the sermon me and a couple other people ate lunch and talked about the sermon.

My friends said God can do whatever he wants. I told them I agree with that. Then they said the following:

God Could be unholy if he wanted to.
God could lie.
God could be immoral if he wanted to be.
God could make a rock so big he couldn't lift it.

I told them that's crazy. They both responded with "I'm not going to say God can't do something. I am not going to limit God. He can do anything."

So then I asked them "Can God make himself not exist."
They both said yes. God can do whatever he wants.

I don't know about this fellas. This sounds crazy to me. Please let me know what you think, because I think it's crazy. And if I am wrong I want to be corrected.


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## Ryan J. Ross (Aug 24, 2014)

Hebrews 6:18.

Also, God does not act contrary to His Word and His nature. If you'll allow it, those types of conversations often prove vain and fruitless, tending to speculations. God has never stated an interest in not existing, so I'd be careful to avoid unwittingly speaking against His providence.

I offer that as an encouragement to keep the third commandment. For example, the WLC Q.113, in part speaks against the following:
"murmuring and quarreling at, curious prying into, and misapplying of God's decrees and providences; misinterpreting, misapplying, or any way perverting the word, or any part of it, to profane jests, curious or unprofitable questions, vain janglings, or the maintaining of false doctrines"


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## Gforce9 (Aug 24, 2014)

On top of what Ryan has stated, the idea of God going against His own character introduces a mutation in His being. Now Immutability is out the window as is our hope of things to come, with no assurance of any of the promises. This kind of thinking needs to be rebuffed, rebuked, and called to repent from.


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## Alan D. Strange (Aug 24, 2014)

This sort of arbitrariness in which God has no immutable essence reduces God to an impersonal will. Such voluntarism may describe Allah, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with the God of the Bible who declares, "For I am the Lord thy God, I change not; therefore, ye sons of Jacob are not consumed" (Mal. 3:6). 

Peace,
Alan


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## Peairtach (Aug 24, 2014)

> God Could be unholy if he wanted to.
> God could lie.
> God could be immoral if he wanted to be.



God cannot deny Himself by being unholy or immoral in any way.



> God could make a rock so big he couldn't lift it.



The laws of logic are a reflection of God's mind and His commitment to truth. He cannot say or do what is illogical.



> So then I asked them "Can God make himself not exist."
> They both said yes. God can do whatever he wants.



God never wants to deny Himself, including His immutability.

God "can do what He wants", but we know from Scripture that He will never want to do certain things. Thus we can have faith in Him.

Your friends are mocking God and breaking the Third Commandment.


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## Matthew1344 (Aug 24, 2014)

Thanks for the help. 

They also said "God does not and will not change/become unholy/unwise/not exist/lie, because he said he wouldn't. But he could have said otherwise. I'm am not saying he doesn't do these things. I know he doesn't change/ become unholy/ unwise/ not exist/lie. The bible promises he won't. But all I am saying is that he could if he wanted to. That is what it means to be God. You can do whatever you want."

I told them that that stuff was silly. I have never been confronted with this thought yet, so I wasn't positive about what to say. But I told them:

1) he can't do all those things and still be God. You can't not exist and still be God.
2) I told him it would be unwise to not exist. His response was "because he deemed it wise that he still exist. He crated wisdom. He chose what is wise and unwise. He could have deemed it wise that he not exist, it is possible for him to do that, because he can do whatever he wants." 
My response to that is that was "No. He didn't create wisdom. He is wisdom. He is eternally wise. He is the source of his own pleasure and for him to forsake that would be unwise. For him to go against that would be unwise. He didn't choose to be infinitely wise because he wanted to. He is infinitely wise because he is God. And being an info minutely wise God, he can't go against himself and commit suicide. He cannot do that and still be God."

I am hanging our tonight. So you guys that are saying it is against the third commandment to talk about this, do you think it is sin to talk about it at all? Because I'm sure it's going to come up tonight and I don't want to sin, but I also don't want him to believe crazy things. What do you suggest?


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## Tim (Aug 24, 2014)

Matthew1344 said:


> I am hanging our tonight. So you guys that are saying it is against the third commandment to talk about this, do you think it is sin to talk about it at all? Because I'm sure it's going to come up tonight and I don't want to sin, but I also don't want him to believe crazy things. What do you suggest?



It would not be wrong for you to firmly insist that these are untrue notions of God, and that for these people to continue to suggest or speculate in this manner is sinful.


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## Free Christian (Aug 24, 2014)

Hi Matt, I simply would not partake of conversations like that for any longer than it would take me to say similar to the above post.


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## Gforce9 (Aug 24, 2014)

Matthew1344 said:


> Thanks for the help.
> 
> They also said "God does not and will not change/become unholy/unwise/not exist/lie, because he said he wouldn't. But he could have said otherwise. I'm am not saying he doesn't do these things. I know he doesn't change/ become unholy/ unwise/ not exist/lie. The bible promises he won't. But all I am saying is that he could if he wanted to. That is what it means to be God. You can do whatever you want."
> 
> ...



Matt,
These folks have some serious flaws in their Theology proper. As you pointed out to them that God is simple; He _is_ wisdom and does not merely possess wisdom. I suggest Ligonier's 2004 Conference _A Portrait of God_, first for your edification and then for these friends. 15 lectures @ ~50 minutes each.....the best conference Ligonier has done in my opinion:
A Portrait of God: 2004 National Conference: Various Authors - DVD, Conference Messages | Ligonier Ministries Store


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## Matthew1344 (Aug 24, 2014)

Thanks guys. Thanks for being committed to the holiness of all those whom Christ has died for. Love you all


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## MW (Aug 24, 2014)

To be fair, there is a genuine philosophical issue behind the question and discussion. Usually it is framed as follows: Can God make a rock so heavy He cannot lift it? And the answer provides a genuine insight into the doctrine of God. That is, God can do all things, but a contradiction is a nothing, and God cannot do nothing.


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## py3ak (Aug 24, 2014)

If such questions are asked sincerely because people aren't grasping the concept of omnipotence properly, it may be helpful to point out, as has been done repeatedly in the history of theology, that certain operations rather imply a defect than a fullness of power. Self-annihilation or making a rock too heavy to lift doesn't actually exhibit a fullness of power, but a defect.


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## Don Kistler (Aug 24, 2014)

God can do anything that He wills to do. Obviously God could never will Himself to not exist. God could never will Himself to sin. Before anyone does anything, they must first choose to do that something. God can never will Himself to be other than what He is. But the Bible lists a number of things that God cannot do. He cannot lie, He cannot sin, He cannot die, He cannot deny Himself. But those things are affirmations of His perfections, not His weakness or lack of sovereignty.


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## Goodcheer68 (Aug 24, 2014)

Here is a short but helpful article refuting the type of reasoning coming from your friends. Can God make a rock so big He can't pick it up? | Christian Apologetics and Research Ministry


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## One Little Nail (Aug 25, 2014)

This reminds me of a story my Father used to tell me, which I found out later was from St Augustine, though it may be an apocryphal tale?

The story is told of St Augustine of Hippo, a great philosopher and theologian who wanted so much to understand the doctrine of the Trinity and to be able to explain it logically. One day as he was walking along the sea shore and reflecting on this, he suddenly saw a little child all alone on the shore. The child made a whole in the sand, ran to the sea with a little cup, filled her cup, came and poured it into the hole she had made in the sand. Back and forth she went to the sea, filled her cup and came and poured it into the hole. Augustine went up to her and said, "Little child, what are doing?" and she replied, "I am trying to empty the sea into this hole." "How do you think," Augustine asked her, "that you can empty this immense sea into this tiny hole and with this tiny cup?" To which she replied, " And you, how do you suppose that with this your small head you can comprehend the immensity of God?" With that the child disappeared.

There are just some things about God that are incomprehensible.


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## Cymro (Aug 25, 2014)

The premise posed by your friend is illogical and naive. How can the Eternal not exist?
How can the Immutable be subject to change? How can the Infinite be compressed into 
nothing? God can only act according to His nature, and cannot deny Himself.
Such vain speculations and vain philosophies are circular, and rob you of precious time.
Don't pursue them.


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