# Why preach hell if God elects?



## Christopher88 (May 2, 2010)

I am reading Heaven and Hell (Essentials of Jonathan Edwards) and a question came to mind which I can't answer and I've tried all day. 
Why preach hell if God elects? 


By the way, great book.


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## Southern Presbyterian (May 2, 2010)

The first thing that comes to my mind is that our Lord Jesus preached hell. Even more than He preached heaven. He is the Prime Example for all preachers.


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## Scott1 (May 2, 2010)

A deep question that requires more than a quick answer, because many things have to be understood.

One might ask, "why preach heaven?" either.

We teach heaven and hell because neither can really be understood without reference to the other.

We preach them to the elect and the non-elect because we do not always know who either of those are, or what God will yet make them be.

Consolation and assurance of the believer involve heaven and God's plan for redemption. The wrath of God coming in judgment of sin, points us toward our need for redemption by Christ.

Logically, could one define good health without implication of sickness?


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## JennyG (May 2, 2010)

That's a subsection of "why evangelise if God elects?"
See Packer's book _Evangelism and the Sovereignty of God_ for a helpful treatment of it


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## Herald (May 2, 2010)

Chris,

God has ordained the means (the Gospel) to call His elect to faith. The Gospel message includes the bad news of sin and judgment (if you will, hell), as well as the good news of eternal life in Christ. Only the elect will respond with saving faith, although we do not know who the elect are. So, we preach the Gospel message to all men and call on all men to repent and believe. This is the universal call of the Gospel. Again, only the elect will believe, but God has chosen the method by which to call His elect, and that method is the preaching of the Gospel.


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## PuritanCovenanter (May 2, 2010)

Why preach the law? Why preach any judgment? Why preach chastisement? Why preach Justice? Why preach God's love? Why preach on the propitiation of Christ? Why preach the gospel? Why preach anything about God? 

My point in my questioning statements are that they are all interrelated. You can't have one without the other. You also need to be warned. 



> (Joh 15:24) If I had not done among them the works which none other man did, they had not had sin: but now have they both seen and hated both me and my Father.
> 
> (Joh 15:25) But this cometh to pass, that the word might be fulfilled that is written in their law, They hated me without a cause.





> (Psa 51:4) Against thee, thee only, have I sinned, and done this evil in thy sight: that thou mightest be justified when thou speakest, and be clear when thou judgest.





> (Rom 3:3) For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect?
> 
> (Rom 3:4) God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.
> 
> ...





> (Rom 10:14) How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
> 
> (Rom 10:15) And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


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## pesterjon (May 2, 2010)

There is a difference between morbid infatuation with hell and preaching hell as one facet of the gospel message. Some fundamentalists seem to offer a significant amount of information and pressure about hell, without ever coming through with the rest of the gospel. Proclaiming hell is not proclaiming the gospel, although it is one aspect of the gospel.


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## Caroline (May 2, 2010)

pesterjon said:


> There is a difference between morbid infatuation with hell and preaching hell as one facet of the gospel message. Some fundamentalists seem to offer a significant amount of information and pressure about hell, without ever coming through with the rest of the gospel. Proclaiming hell is not proclaiming the gospel, although it is one aspect of the gospel.


 
True. I suppose the 'why preach hell' question could be answered with another question (don't you hate it when people answer questions with questions) ...

Why read about comets? Unless you think they are going to impact the earth, they don't really concern you, and if they do impact the earth, there's nothing you can do about it. 

In other words, we preach hell partly just because it exists and people are curious. The same reason we tell people about the existance of comets or anything else that doesn't immediately concern us but is interesting nonethelss.

But, of course, the reason goes beyond that. I suppose it tells us something of the justice of God, the seriousness of sin, etc. But I don't think everything taught or read has to have immediate relevance. If hell exists, then it exists. Reason enough to mention it.

That being said, I'm not sure that we should PREACH hell in the sense of making it a frequent and lengthy subject of a sermon. We preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and salvation, and in that sense, hell is somewhat incidental. The focus is not on Satan, demons, hell, or other such darkness, but on the light of Christ. In my experience, hell sermons tend to be overly introspective. (Are you sure you are saved? Are you really sure? Really, really sure? *pause* Well, how about now? Are you sure now? Really sure? Etc)

If you are on a bridge crossing over a deep pit, you do better and walk with more confidence if you focus on the bridge than if you keep staring at the pit. So also better to focus on the salvation in Christ than the consequences if we weren't saved.

Christ mentioned hell in his sermons, but he didn't go into lengthy visualization about people screaming and fire burning or start shrieking about, "Are you sure you are going to heaven tonight? Do you have peace in your heart? Because if not, you'd better get down here right now and cry out to God to save you. You could walk outside this synagogue tonight and be run over by a chariot, and where would you be THEN?" 

No, he just didn't.


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## Christopher88 (May 2, 2010)

I find it very interesting as Edwards seem to preach hell as if the sinner had a so called choice over it. Either your elect or not. Am I misunderstanding election? 

You don't choose God, he chooses you.


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## Herald (May 2, 2010)

Sonny said:


> I find it very interesting as Edwards seem to preach hell as if the sinner had a so called choice over it. Either your elect or not. Am I misunderstanding election?
> 
> You don't choose God, he chooses you.



Chris,

But do you know who the elect are? Save God, no one knows who is elect and who is not. Therefore, what option does the preacher have but to proclaim Christ to all? We plead with all men to be reconciled to God (2 Cor. 5:20). You haven't ceded to the fact that the Gospel is the means of salvation. I ask you this question; can anyone be saved outside of hearing the Gospel? As was pointed out earlier, the Gospel contains man's condition (sin and judgment), as well as the remedy for his condition, forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ alone. This would make the plea for sinners to repent resemble an Arminian call if it were not for the context in which the Gospel message was preached. Don't be confused with the preachers plea for men to reject sin and choose Christ. The Reformed pastor knows that only the elect will come to faith; but that same pastor does not posses insider information as to who is elect.


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## Caroline (May 2, 2010)

I'm not familiar enough with Jonathan Edwards to say (others can probably speak more confidently on the subject. I'm a descendent of Jonathan Edwards, and for complex reasons, that has set me against reading anything by him). 

But overall, it's a both/and thing, isn't it? God's revealed will is that we should repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins (Acts 2:37-38) and yet we know that only the Holy Spirit can empower someone do so, according to God's decretal will. But one runs into these questions in a lot of different contexts. If God decrees all things, why did Jesus say, "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing!"

I have no idea how to put those things together, and I suspect nobody really does. David says, "I do not concern myself with great matters or things too wonderful for me but I have stilled and quieted my soul." (Psalm 131) I guess that's my conclusion about it all.

Edited to say: Is this a pastor-only forum? because if it is, I'm slightly embarrassed about responding. I'll sort this Puritanboard out eventually, but there are just so many categories, and I get confused.


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## PuritanCovenanter (May 3, 2010)

Sonny said:


> I find it very interesting as Edwards seem to preach hell as if the sinner had a so called choice over it. Either your elect or not. Am I misunderstanding election?
> 
> You don't choose God, he chooses you.



So let me ask you a question here. If you truly became a Christian, and I am not implying you are not, did you not have some conversion experience where you came to receive the truth? 

John 1:12,13

Did you not have to respond? If you had no response, I would suggest you were not made alive, quickened, and expected to respond to a God who is relational. 

Knowing God is eternal life. Abiding in the vine is life. If this is not true it is death. A baby after it is born needs to breath (they spank or prick newborns to do this), feed, and grow. If someone didn't take the first breath death was their life. Just some questions and proddings for thought.


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## Prufrock (May 3, 2010)

Chris,

My further answer is not to imply that the answers given thus far are not satisfactory, but I think there is at least one more thing that ought to be said. First, no, you are not misunderstanding election: my believing or not believing is in no way the cause of my election, nor can it influence my election. Faith is, indeed, a fruit of election. BUT, while the decree of election is absolute, the execution of God's decree is by means. One of those means is by the receiving of the gospel in faith. So while God has decreed with certainty who will come to salvation, he has decreed that no man will come to salvation but by means of faith and repentance, by fleeing the terror of the law and clinging to Christ as offered in the gospel.


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## Jack K (May 3, 2010)

Also... God chooses us so that we will then choose him. Election does not destroy our volition. Rather, our election leads to the new birth that awakens us so that we are able and certain to believe the gospel, which we do as a conscious matter of choice. So we preach hell as a necessary part of the salvation message that surrounds the gospel, because it is a necessary part of what all men ought to hear to be saved.

Furthermore, the gospel doesn't cease to be useful once you're a believer. Those of us who have already believed also need to hear, over and over, of the salvation won for us by Christ. It is daily encouragement and power, and the truth about hell is a part of that.


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## Ask Mr. Religion (May 3, 2010)

The UBS lists the following recorded word counts of Christ:

Mt 8285
Mk 3566
Lk 6177
Jn 6574

The majority of those words were related to eternal condemnation. We don't know who the elect are, and the elect are ordinarily regenerated by the power of the Spirit from the hearing of the gospel. This _foolishness of preaching_ is the _means_ by which God's eternal plan is temporally actualized.

AMR


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## Glenn Ferrell (May 3, 2010)

Sonny said:


> I find it very interesting as Edwards seem to preach hell as if the sinner had a so called choice over it. Either your elect or not. Am I misunderstanding election?
> 
> You don't choose God, he chooses you.



God uses means (the preaching of the gospel) to effectually call, convince, persuade, enable and incline the hearts of the elect to embrace His promises freely offered in Jesus Christ alone.


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## Willem van Oranje (May 3, 2010)

Sonny said:


> I am reading Heaven and Hell (Essentials of Jonathan Edwards) and a question came to mind which I can't answer and I've tried all day.
> Why preach hell if God elects?
> 
> 
> By the way, great book.


 
Because God has commanded it.


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## Christopher88 (May 3, 2010)

This makes more sense now, thanks. 
To answer your question Mr. Snyder. Yes I know the day I got saved, and it brings a grin to my face and even tears of joy. I got saved by hearing and seeing the word. 
Great answers, thanks for your time to answer them.


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## captivewill (May 3, 2010)

Because" Faith comes by Hearing the Word of God" including the Word of God about Hell.


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