# Standing during the Service (no pews/chairs)



## jerubbaal (Aug 16, 2018)

I'm aware that it was historically the practice of the church that the congregation (those who were able) would stand during the worship service. Obviously, the vast majority of our churches have shifted away from this practice, but I was wondering if there were still any Reformed churches in which this is still standard practice.

As someone who is going to plant a church next year, would it be absolutely bonkers-crazy to consider an order of worship in which the congregation would stand for the service? Of course, there would be chairs available to those who need them, but much of the congregation could stand. I find the connection to the historical worship of the church compelling, and it seems to be a compelling illustration of the service as active worship, rather than merely passive reception. On a more pragmatic level, such an arrangement would certainly lend us a lot of flexibility as far as the space we use, since we certainly will not own a building when we plant.

Happy for feedback along historical, theological, or merely pragmatic lines.


----------



## Scott Bushey (Aug 16, 2018)

Sitting or standing would be considered inconsequential in my opinion. We cannot find any actual examples in scripture or the RPW where standing is a command of God for worship.

The OT example, while in the wilderness, speaks for itself...


----------



## jwithnell (Aug 16, 2018)

I've only seen this practiced in Roman Catholic churches in South America.


----------



## Florida Reforming (Aug 16, 2018)

As has been stated, standing or sitting would be acceptable. A related matter is that the universal (or nearly so) practice of the church through the centuries was for the men to stand/sit on one side and the women on the other. Very few practice this nowadays although there are sound reasons for it.


----------



## Edward (Aug 16, 2018)

jerubbaal said:


> As someone who is going to plant a church next year, would it be absolutely bonkers-crazy to consider an order of worship in which the congregation would stand for the service?



It would probably be useful if you want to make sure the congregation doesn't get too big. I presume you are targeting folks that are used to standing through concerts. I ended up at a Rachel Platten / Christina Grimmie double header a couple of years ago. The millennials were fine with the standing. Some of us with more mileage, less so. I could also see it being a barrier to families with small children. 

So it would depend on your target demographic.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## TheOldCourse (Aug 16, 2018)

I would think that, for many, standing would be sufficiently uncomfortable that it would be a distraction from the means of grace. Standing churches were the norm in societies where people were used to being on their feet all day and were physically adapted to it. Ours is not that society.

Reactions: Like 4


----------



## Tom Hart (Aug 16, 2018)

I've got flat feet. I appreciate being able to sit down sometimes, or else I'm uncomfortably shifting from one foot to the other.


----------



## yeutter (Aug 16, 2018)

I have been in Mar Thoma Congregations where almost everyone stood; mostly men and boys on one side, mostly women, girls, and small children on the other side. The exception was the lame, the elderly, and women with very small children, who sat on pews or chairs in the back or around the edge of the congregation. I have been in both Anglican, and Baptist parishes in Nepal, where the men and boys sat on the floor on one side, and women and girls sat on the other side.


----------



## jw (Aug 16, 2018)

Its explicit prescription (standing for the whole service) can be found in Hesitations 2.44, 45 and - by good and necessary consequence - deduced from Jerry 1.1, as adequately expressed in Pettiminster Digression of Face (_c_ pronounced with a lithp) 6.7.

**in all seriousness, our congregation stands during the prayers, psalm-singing, and the declaration of the Law, while sitting for the scripture readings & exhortations, as well as the preaching of the word.

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Steve Curtis (Aug 16, 2018)

Joshua said:


> Its explicit prescription can be found in Hesitations 2.44, 45 and - by good and necessary consequence - deduced from Jerry 1.1, as adequately expressed in Pettiminster Digression of Face (_c_ pronounced with a lithp) 6.7



I always thought that the clearest didactic passage on the matter could be found in 2 Opinions, midway through the 343rd chapter.

Reactions: Funny 2


----------



## Ryan&Amber2013 (Aug 16, 2018)

In my opinion:

1. The Sabbath is meant to be a day of physical rest, not just spiritual. Seats are a blessing to allow us to make the most of the rest on the Lord's day.

2. Because this isn't something that even matters, I wouldn't jeopardize losing possible members over something like this, as it might be too weird or inconvenient for them.

3. If order matters, then I think seating is more structured and orderly, and allows all people to see the preacher who would be more elevated as he stands.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## OPC'n (Aug 16, 2018)

I think NT shows that people sat during worship. Acts 20:7-9 "On the first day of the week, when we were gathered together to break bread, Paul talked with them, intending to depart on the next day, and he prolonged his speech until midnight.8 There were many lamps in the upper room where we were gathered. And a young man named Eutychus, *sitting* at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer. And being overcome by sleep, he *fell* down from the third story and was taken up dead."

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## timfost (Aug 16, 2018)

The seats in front of us are a helpful three-year-old barrier. I wouldn't want to do without them.


----------



## ZackF (Aug 16, 2018)

jerubbaal said:


> I'm aware that it was historically the practice of the church that the congregation (those who were able) would stand during the worship service. Obviously, the vast majority of our churches have shifted away from this practice, but I was wondering if there were still any Reformed churches in which this is still standard practice.
> 
> As someone who is going to plant a church next year, would it be absolutely bonkers-crazy to consider an order of worship in which the congregation would stand for the service? Of course, there would be chairs available to those who need them, but much of the congregation could stand. I find the connection to the historical worship of the church compelling, and it seems to be a compelling illustration of the service as active worship, rather than merely passive reception. On a more pragmatic level, such an arrangement would certainly lend us a lot of flexibility as far as the space we use, since we certainly will not own a building when we plant.
> 
> Happy for feedback along historical, theological, or merely pragmatic lines.



Just learned something. I had thought standing all the time was only done by Benedictine monks.


----------



## Edward (Aug 16, 2018)

OPC'n said:


> Eutychus, *sitting* at the window, sank into a deep sleep as Paul talked still longer.



So is sleeping during a long sermon an element or a circumstance of worship?

Reactions: Funny 3


----------



## Ryan&Amber2013 (Aug 16, 2018)

Edward said:


> So is sleeping during a long sermon an element or a circumstance of worship?


I heard Jonathan Edwards had a man in his congregation that would sleep laying totally sprawled out across the pew, during the sermons.


----------



## Username4000 (Aug 16, 2018)

As a compromise, consider standing for prayer. The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland points out that scriptural evidence lists standing and kneeling as positions for prayer, so they stand for prayer and sit to sing psalms. (I don’t think this is required by scripture, but it is certainly permitted and appropriate.)

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## bookslover (Aug 17, 2018)

Having everyone stand for an hour-and-a-half-long worship service would be a good way to guarantee you'd have a _really small congregation_.

Some churches may have practiced it historically but that doesn't automatically make it biblical.

Reactions: Like 1


----------



## TylerRay (Aug 17, 2018)

koenig said:


> As a compromise, consider standing for prayer. The Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland points out that scriptural evidence lists standing and kneeling as positions for prayer, so they stand for prayer and sit to sing psalms. (I don’t think this is required by scripture, but it is certainly permitted and appropriate.)


That's the practice in the FC(C), as well. It was once the universal practice among Presbyterians. Samuel Miller writes, "In all Presbyterian churches standing is regarding as the appropriate posture in prayer at all times" (Thoughts on Public Prayer, p125).

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


----------



## JimmyH (Aug 17, 2018)

In my congregation we stand for the opening and closing hymns. In the evening service we also continue to stand, after the first hymn, to recite in unison the Apostles or Nicene Creed. This topic got me thinking of images I've seen of George Whitefield or John Wesley in their itinerant preaching. No chairs unless the listeners brought their own. Also the question of time. I've read that the sermons preached by the aforementioned men could go on quite a bit longer than the 30-45 minutes we are accustomed to in our day. Charles Hadden Spurgeon's sermons were also longer than we are used to. Just thinking out loud.


----------



## Ryan&Amber2013 (Aug 17, 2018)

JimmyH said:


> In my congregation we stand for the opening and closing hymns. In the evening service we also continue to stand, after the first hymn, to recite in unison the Apostles or Nicene Creed. This topic got me thinking of images I've seen of George Whitefield or John Wesley in their itinerant preaching. No chairs unless the listeners brought their own. Also the question of time. I've read that the sermons preached by the aforementioned men could go on quite a bit longer than the 30-45 minutes we are accustomed to in our day. Charles Hadden Spurgeon's sermons were also longer than we are used to. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> View attachment 5715


Lol, if our church were a one time outdoor open air preaching venue in the 1700s, I would do it like that too.


----------



## bookslover (Aug 17, 2018)

JimmyH said:


> In my congregation we stand for the opening and closing hymns. In the evening service we also continue to stand, after the first hymn, to recite in unison the Apostles or Nicene Creed. This topic got me thinking of images I've seen of George Whitefield or John Wesley in their itinerant preaching. No chairs unless the listeners brought their own. Also the question of time. I've read that the sermons preached by the aforementioned men could go on quite a bit longer than the 30-45 minutes we are accustomed to in our day. Charles Hadden Spurgeon's sermons were also longer than we are used to. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> View attachment 5715



I'm betting that, when Whitefield preached _indoors_, people sat in the pews.


----------



## hammondjones (Aug 17, 2018)

timfost said:


> The seats in front of us are a helpful three-year-old barrier. I wouldn't want to do without them.



I'll say, otherwise we'd have an hour and a half of hide and seek.

Reactions: Funny 1


----------



## TheOldCourse (Aug 17, 2018)

JimmyH said:


> In my congregation we stand for the opening and closing hymns. In the evening service we also continue to stand, after the first hymn, to recite in unison the Apostles or Nicene Creed. This topic got me thinking of images I've seen of George Whitefield or John Wesley in their itinerant preaching. No chairs unless the listeners brought their own. Also the question of time. I've read that the sermons preached by the aforementioned men could go on quite a bit longer than the 30-45 minutes we are accustomed to in our day. Charles Hadden Spurgeon's sermons were also longer than we are used to. Just thinking out loud.
> 
> View attachment 5715



They often preached outdoors when they were refused access to the parish pulpit or refused license within a presbytery. These gatherings were, sometimes for better and sometimes for worse, irregular and certainly not a model for public worship on the Lord's Day. 

There's no doubt that people of old were more used to longer sermons. Nevertheless, some like John Newton actually wrote against the length of sermons in his day, believing that over-long sermons ceased being edifying to the congregation at some point. Spurgeon, whom you mentioned, actually wrote that sermons should rarely go over 40-45 minutes. Preachers need to know their congregations and their own limitations.


----------



## OPC'n (Aug 17, 2018)

Edward said:


> So is sleeping during a long sermon an element or a circumstance of worship?



Probably a circumstance just don't sit at an opened window.


----------



## Reepicheep (Aug 17, 2018)

Bring back kneeling!


----------



## jwithnell (Aug 17, 2018)

timfost said:


> The seats in front of us are a helpful three-year-old barrier.


 I had a toddler crawl under my pew and pop up beside me one week. I scooped her up next to me and led her through the rest of the service giving a harried mom a bit of a break as she dealt with an infant and other kids. I sometimes wonder if the old pew boxes also used to help keep kids from wandering.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## Ben Zartman (Aug 17, 2018)

I get less sleepy, and time seems to pass faster when I stand--perhaps because I can be more alert. The message goes quicker when you're concentrating on it, I find. But I'd hate to make my wife, children and others who prefer (or need) to sit, stand just because I prefer it.


----------



## Jeri Tanner (Aug 17, 2018)

TylerRay said:


> That's the practice in the FC(C), as well. It was once the universal practice among Presbyterians. Samuel Miller writes, "In all Presbyterian churches standing is regarding as the appropriate posture in prayer at all times" (Thoughts on Public Prayer, p125).


Why was/is that, Tyler, and what is the biblical basis for sitting while singing?


----------



## VictorBravo (Aug 19, 2018)

Reepicheep said:


> Bring back kneeling!


For the sermon?

No thanks. Some of us would end up spending more time noticing the increasing pain radiating from from that joint than listening.

Reactions: Like 2


----------



## TylerRay (Aug 20, 2018)

Jeri Tanner said:


> Why was/is that, Tyler, and what is the biblical basis for sitting while singing?


The Scriptures present standing as a normative posture for prayer. Kneeling is also used for prayer in Scripture. Sitting, to my knowledge, is never presented as an appropriate posture.

This article from the FPCS provides an excellent case for standing during prayer.

I don't know that the Scriptures ever present a normative posture for singing. I don't think that anyone would argue that sitting is _the_ posture for singing in the same way that standing (or kneeling) is _the_ posture for prayer.


----------

