# Is the Christian Reformed Church liberal?



## shackleton (Feb 5, 2008)

I have been listening to some lectures by Ray Vanderlaan, who is a minister in the CRC. Some of what he says is very good (interesting if true) some sounds so strange I have to wonder if it is true. Some of his beliefs are identical to those espoused by liberal theology. 

For instance, Documentary hypothesis, allegorizes major bible stories in OT, Jesus was a follower of and received his authority from John who received his from God, the Holy Spirit is feminine, NRSV best NT translation, Jews do not believe Jesus is Messiah because Christians have been mean to them and killed them over the years.

He did most of his studies with Jews who openly denied Jesus as Messiah and now takes their interpretation on most scriptures. If the background info he has on the bible is correct it is phenomenal info but most of it is so foreign to anything I have ever heard, except in liberal commentaries or on the History Channel, I have to question it before I can accept it. 

I noticed the URCNA was made up partially of CRC churches who left and I was wondering if they left because it was liberal. If they did, and he is, a lot of things would make sense. 

Allegory:
David and Goliath. 
David represented Christ, Goliath the Devil (his height equals 666) David(Jesus) hits him in the forehead with a stone (Genesis, he will crush his head).
There are others that I cannot remember of the top of my head. I remember when I studied hermeneutics that Jews at the time of the first century where Hellenized and allegorized the stories of the OT. Philo for example. 

He says some things about Jesus and the culture of the Jews that really clear some things up but when he begins to interpret the bible through this lens things get pretty weird.


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## Poimen (Feb 5, 2008)

The reason the Reformed Alliance, OCRC and URC left the CRC is varied but it largely centers around the growing denial of the authority and divine inspiration of the scriptures as summarized in our confession (cf. Belgic Confession Articles 5 & 7). 

Thus many people will talk about: women in office, creation issues, homosexuality et al. as the reason but these are really symptoms of the disease. 

The CRC may not yet be liberal but it is on that trajectory. However many groups under the umbrella of diversity celebrated therein could be classified as broadly evangelical in their experiential theology and worship. Eventually one would expect the liberal element to win since all the 'conservatives' have left; at least this is what has happened with every other denomination I know when those fighting the battle are either silenced or leave the battle field.


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## etexas (Feb 5, 2008)

To what Daniel said! My understanding is the same, they seem to be on a slippery "Libby-Lou" direction.


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## kvanlaan (Feb 5, 2008)

CRC survivor here: I was in high school during the split over women in office. Families split, friends split, elders went to families to lobby for faction support, etc. We were kids of 16 and appealing to the greek in heated arguments over the right and wrong of Dorcas being considered a 'deaconess'. 

It left a lot of theologically walking wounded, my brother among them. It does little for one's spiritual growth/foundations when you are 16 (not a time of great stability anyway) and see elders of the church bickering and quoting scripture at one another with some venom and without a shred of brotherly love. I still remember my father saying that there was a great need at the time to be more Christian and less Reformed (not with regards to the issue at hand, but with regard to how we interacted with each other in discussing it.)

As for whether or not they are liberal now, I would say that there are good congregations and bad. My home church is still solid, though, I fear, on the road to liberalism (but not far along.)

That being said, Eastern Avenue CRC is indeed liberal. Just ask pastor Thea Leunk. She can tell you all about it.


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## greenbaggins (Feb 5, 2008)

Pastoring a CRC church at the moment, I can tell you that there is an out and out battle for the soul of the CRC, which we conservatives are losing. Last year they voted to allow women delegates to synod, thus creating a huge problem for conservatives, who can no longer consider the synod as legitimately constituted. Let's not even mention question 80 of the Heidelberg Catechism, which the CRC has voted to have no binding validity anymore (that question says that the Roman Catholic Mass is an idolatry). I am part of a very conservative classis that is constantly sending up overtures to the synod to try to take back the denomination. It won't humanly happen unless lots of PCA and OPC pastors start taking CRC churches (remarkably, I get a vote in classis if my church calls me a delegate; I can even moderate classis!).


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## kvanlaan (Feb 5, 2008)

I had no idea about Q&A 80, my clearest memory is the 'invalidation' of maleness in the church orders, as I remember it from the Banner article on Synod 2006 (I think).

For those of you looking in from the outside, it was a _very_ different church in my grandfather's time. It just got culturally sensitive/relevant and the tailspin began.

Rev Keister, I'll be praying for you. I _loved_ the CRC as it was, a restoration would be a beautiful thing. I just don't see us going back there when we leave China; maybe FRC or URC (and yes, actions like that make us part of the problem...)


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