# When is a ministry a ministry?



## jwithnell (Oct 9, 2012)

This is a split off from another thread. Here's the statement that I need clarified please:



> There are numbers of men, also, who have taken upon themselves ministries to which they've not been called, examined, and commissioned. This is grievous as well.



Is a ministry not a ministry unless someone is called, examined and commissioned to the task? If we have activities for children, would it not be properly referred to as a children's ministry? Is there a better term? I sometimes write or edit for the church and do not want to use this term incorrectly. 

Thanks for any clarification!


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## Tim (Oct 9, 2012)

What are the activities?


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## JonathanHunt (Oct 9, 2012)

The church may set apart men or women for any number of ministries. I think that what Josh was particularly referring to was the phenomenon we see so much, of self-appointed 'pastors' and 'leaders' who set up 'Mr Big Ministries' and who have zero oversight, zero calling from a church, etc.


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## NaphtaliPress (Oct 9, 2012)

May be helpful to distinguish usage; "ministries" from "the Ministry"? I know I've been thanked for my "ministry" in the publishing I do (though in theory for profit), but I much prefer the more generic "thanks for doing what you do" that seems popular now to say.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 9, 2012)

This is somewhat related, but enough that I don't think it requires a separate thread. I have noticed something in Presbyterian circles that concerns this "what is ministry" question when it comes to ordaining men to serve in parachurch ministries. In the PC(USA) it was quite common to ordain someone as a Reverend to a whole host of different "ministries" that had no direct relationship to the church whatsoever. These kinds of things included advocacy groups (both political and non-political), non-profit foundations, denominational agencies, etc. I never understood the rationale and why it was necessary to be a "Reverend" without a call to a specific body of Christ in these situations, however this is also something I have seen done in the PCA (and probably the ARP).


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## jwithnell (Oct 9, 2012)

So, Josh, you could use the term as a verb, but not as part of someone's working title? For example: Helen ministers to others with her music. But not: Helen is our music minister? Should a church refer to VBS as one of its ministries? If this is a misuse, what is a better term. I don't know why, but program just sounds impersonal somehow.


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## Andres (Oct 9, 2012)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> I never understood the rationale and why it was necessary to be a "Reverend" without a call to a specific body of Christ in these situations, however this is also something I have seen done in the PCA (and probably the ARP).



But not the OPC.


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## Jack K (Oct 9, 2012)

"Ministry" is a good word, much beter than "program" or even "work" or "job." It carries connotations of service. That's appropriate for God's people, who live by the maxim that "whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus." In the KJV Bible it's used to describe the godly work of any of the saints: "As every man hath received the gift, even so minister the same one to another" (1 Peter 4:10).

It's such a good word that it's also used to speak of the particular calling of pastors and elders and such. Here's Paul to Timothy: "If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ" (1 Timothy 4:6). 

I think that with a little care we can manage to use it both ways without getting the two confused, just like the Bible does.


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## Scottish Lass (Oct 9, 2012)

So is it reasonable to say that in order to use the term "ministry" properly, that the means of grace should be involved? Therefore, a blood drive held at a church likely isn't, but a church involved with bringing the Gospel and food to the homeless would be?


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## jwithnell (Oct 10, 2012)

> shouldn't be considered a means of grace


 So, as Anna is also asking, the key here is its tie the use of the word "ministry" to administering the means of grace? I can see merit in that. Jack, is it possible that the language has changed sufficiently since the KJV to suggest a narrower modern meaning? In that day, I don't think there were as many questions regarding position or authority. (That someone would have a "place" in society would have been almost unquestioned, whereas today, we can be egalitarian to a fault.) The problem in the PCUSA actually extended to a Supreme Court last year when a teacher in a Christian school was considered ordained.

We have a section in the web page I'm developing that includes activities such as VBS, a father-son program, seniors group, etc. What might be a better word to summarize this group of activities? We want people in the church to have a logical place to go for information and we also want to convey to our web page visitors that we are an active, vibrant congregation.


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## Tim (Oct 10, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> We have a section in the web page I'm developing that includes activities such as VBS, a father-son program, seniors group, etc. What might be a better word to summarize this group of activities? We want people in the church to have a logical place to go for information and we also want to convey to our web page visitors that we are an active, vibrant congregation.



My suggestion would be to simply describe the activity, whether it be crafts, coloring books, coffee, light conversation, or exegetical bible study taught by the elders. If you just state what goes on, it relieves the reader of having to figure out what a seniors group actually does, for example.


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## Jack K (Oct 10, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> Jack, is it possible that the language has changed sufficiently since the KJV to suggest a narrower modern meaning?



It is possible. One of the big things we always need to do when we choose a word to use is to try to be clear and avoid confusion.

When my church hired me to start running it's children's program, someone decided to give me the title of "Children's Minister." I asked them to change that. It sounded too much like an office I don't actually hold. But I was okay with the alternative, "Director of Children's Ministries." I think the teaching of children in the church can be called "ministry" even though it isn't all done directly by the ministers (though they have oversight and they've appointed me to be in charge of the day-to-day stuff).

I think we sufficiently avoid confusion today when we save the word "minister" for, well, ministers... while we allow "ministry" for any of the church's activities designed to serve people—both ministry of the Word and other ways of helping. Though it sounds inconsistent, that's how most people think of those words today, and usage should fit the way people think. If we want to specify "ministry of the Word," then we can use that phrase or use "teaching and preaching ministry" or "Minister's work" or anything of that sort that tells people we mean a particular kind of ministry. In terms of clear communication, that works better than placing restrictions on a word that has a wide meaning in common usage.

People sometimes get up in arms and try to insist that to preserve some theological concept everyone ought to keep to a narrow narrow usage of some word that has a wide range of meaning in common usage. The intent is noble. We like having our theological categories well-defined. But such efforts never work. Those who insist on only their narrow usage inevitably become the ones who're misunderstood by everyone else. It's almost always better to acknowledge the wider usage rather than prohibit it, and to adopt new words or phrases for the narrower meaning if context alone fails to be sufficient.


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## Andres (Oct 10, 2012)

jwithnell said:


> We have a section in the web page I'm developing that includes activities such as VBS, a father-son program, seniors group, etc. What might be a better word to summarize this group of activities? We want people in the church to have a logical place to go for information and we also want to convey to our web page visitors that we are an active, vibrant congregation.



I am trying my best to tread carefully here, but might it be something to consider whether or not all of these activities should be administered/held by the church if it's a struggle to appropriately place them? I don't see any reason why your church can't still be an "active, vibrant congregation" without VBS, seniors group, etc.


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## jwithnell (Oct 11, 2012)

I'm trying to come up with a single word to put on the navigation bar for our website-- once inside, people will find a brief description or access to information posted by the leader of a particular function. "Groups" sound like we try to pigeon-hole people. We don't -- almost none of these were top-down formations but rather people wanting to address certain needs or who want to get together with similar interests and grow together in Christ. "Services" could be confused with worship service or might sound like some gov't program. "Activities" sounds like something from parks and recreation. I tried "Community" -- a kind of double-play for both our church community and for our service to the surrounding community -- but decided the term was too vague. (I hate having to guess and hunt for info on a website.) Finally, "Ministries" seemed like the best catch-all until I saw discussion regarding the term in another thread.

Andrew, the website is showing who we are, not what we are trying to be. Aside from the scripture-defined marks of a true church, I believe a congregation's activities may freely reflect the membership and communities in which they reside. VBS is a primary way we have unchurched people walk through our doors. As another example, we had an older woman in our congregation who was concerned that the feminist era undercuts the gracious standards of Christian women and started a group for young girls to prepare them for lives in service to their church and family. These and a dozen other (what do you call them!?!) activities are organic to our church and may appeal to those without a church and to those moving here seeking a good church.


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