# Why Rick Warren why?



## SolaSaint (Apr 10, 2013)

“The mission of Tom Peterson and Catholics Come Home to bring souls home to Jesus and the church is critically important during this challenging time in our history. I fully support this new evangelization project.” 
—Rick Warren, author of The Purpose Driven Life

RW has thrown his full endorsement of a new Catholic evangelism effort. It makes me wonder if he would do the same for a Mormon or JW publication? I cannot understand this guy at all. What can't he just remain silent on issues like this?


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## SolaScriptura (Apr 10, 2013)

In regards to Matt Chandler's thoroughly evangelical _The Explicit Gospel_, Warren gave this glowing endorsement: "If you read only one book this year, make it this one. It's _that_ important."

Clearly the man is doctrinally schizophrenic.


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## DMcFadden (Apr 10, 2013)

I think that the common denominator is that Rick Warren is in favor of . . . "Radical," "Christ-centered," "passionate," "church growth," Christianity of a megachurch variety. 

As such, he could probably lavish praise on Matt Chandler (a Calvinistic, complementarian, continuationist, Piper fan, seminary dropout), David Platt (a megachurch PhD), Francis Chan, and any number of megachurch pastors of the Cambellite-Restorationist movement (an unusually high percentage of mega churches in America are part of the Stone-Campbell movement). Tom Peterson (Romanist) is promoting returning to what is typically a megachurch expression of Roman Catholicism.

Maybe Rick Warren just likes giant churches, that claim to be "Christ centered," regardless of the doctrinal distinctives? Remember that his DMin comes from the school in Pasadena that must not be named, the grand daddy of the Church Growth movement, and noted for its friendliness to Roman Catholics. Even when I was in seminary in Pasadena in the 70s, in addition to Peter Wagner promoting a charismatic Church Growth, we had a Benedictine Monk in the PhD program. I think he was also a teaching assistant(???) and a favorite of the faculty. Praising a Roman Catholic with an evangelistic flair would be pretty _de rigueur_ for a graduate of the school.

So, Ben, rather than viewing it through the lens of doctrinal schizophrenia, I would see it as a rather predictable and typical example of the type of graduate the school seeks to produce. Remember the effusive praise for Bell's _Love Wins_ by the then president of the school? Can you spell "g-e-n-e-r-o-u-s o-r-t-h-o-d-o-x-y," "d-i-a-l-o-g-u-e" and "i-n-c-l-u-s-i-v-e"??? I knew you could.

What unites a fascination with megachurches, emergent experimentation, edgy "radical" discipleship, Roman Catholics, etc. Yep. It is that place in Pasadena. In a weird way Peter Wagner (who did his M.Div. there before becoming a prof), John Piper, Rob Bell, Rick Warren, and that Benedictine Monk are ALL quintessential examples of what they are intentionally aiming to produce in their graduates. [Specific] doctrinal commitments do not matter all that much; coloring outside the lines (particularly in outreach and dialog with those normally thought of as "the others") is prized. More pointedly, the thing that probably differentiates graduates of the school more than anything else is a commitment (some would say an obsession) to showing oneself "open minded" and affirming of people with whom you might be expected to disagree.*


* Cf. Christian artist, Steve Taylor's, lyric from the early '80s: "You're so open-minded that your brains leaked out."


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## Supersillymanable (Apr 10, 2013)

I genuinely can't understand this. I've been more sympathetic with Rick Warren than others on this board in the past, but I cannot understand why on earth he would want to do this. In what way is calling Catholics back to the "one true faith" a good thing at all? Oh, well at least they hear the name of Jesus said every now and then, if they get some of that, we can ignore all the adding to the Bible, praying to saints, utter legalism and just downright heresy left right and centre. He claims to have read people like Owen and Edwards, but I'm quite sure they'd be turning in their graves hearing about this. I remember reading through Owen's mortification of sin, and he literally destroys the Catholic teaching on sanctification. Why would Rick Warren want anyone to go to a pseudo Christian faith that encourages means of sanctification that aren't rooted in the Gospel? That's just trapping someone in misery! It makes me genuinely a little angry that he'd actually give the endorsement..


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## Rich Koster (Apr 10, 2013)

DMcFadden said:


> I think that the common denominator is that Rick Warren is in favor of . . . "Radical," "Christ-centered," "passionate," "church growth," Christianity of a megachurch variety.
> 
> As such, he could probably lavish praise on Matt Chandler (a Calvinistic, complementarian, continuationist, Piper fan, seminary dropout), David Platt (a megachurch PhD), Francis Chan, and any number of megachurch pastors of the Cambellite-Restorationist movement (an unusually high percentage of mega churches in America are part of the Stone-Campbell movement). Tom Peterson (Romanist) is promoting returning to what is typically a megachurch expression of Roman Catholicism.
> 
> ...



It seems he likes to equate large crowds, while someone mentions the name Jesus, as successful evangelism.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 10, 2013)

DMcFadden said:


> I think that the common denominator is that Rick Warren is in favor of . . . "Radical," "Christ-centered," "passionate," "church growth," Christianity of a megachurch variety.
> 
> As such, he could probably lavish praise on Matt Chandler (a Calvinistic, complementarian, continuationist, Piper fan, seminary dropout), David Platt (a megachurch PhD), Francis Chan, and any number of megachurch pastors of the Cambellite-Restorationist movement (an unusually high percentage of mega churches in America are part of the Stone-Campbell movement). Tom Peterson (Romanist) is promoting returning to what is typically a megachurch expression of Roman Catholicism.
> 
> ...



Great analysis. Modern-day pietism.


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## arapahoepark (Apr 10, 2013)

I don't necessarily want to derail the thread and start a posting war but...I understand the aggravation of Warren's ecumenism and disdain for doctrinal purity however, his son committed suicide a few days ago and I find it rather unsympathetic to bring this up now. But, what do I know?


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## Rich Koster (Apr 10, 2013)

arap said:


> I don't necessarily want to derail the thread and start a posting war but...I understand the aggravation of Warren's ecumenism and disdain for doctrinal purity however, his son committed suicide a few days ago and I find it rather unsympathetic to bring this up now. But, what do I know?



This is in a closed forum. I doubt anyone is going to print it out and mail it to the Warren home. If it was going to cause him more immediate grief and aggravation I would agree with you.


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## hammondjones (Apr 10, 2013)

Rich Koster said:


> It seems he likes to equate large crowds, while someone mentions the name Jesus, as successful evangelism.



Then he'd love NASCAR races!


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## Paul1976 (Apr 10, 2013)

I agree Trent. Wherever Rick's head seems to be at times, his heart appears to be in the right place. He clearly has a passion with reaching many with the Gospel, and he appears to genuinely affirm much of what is important in the Gospel. From his books, he could be a very wealthy man - he has apparently given much of that back to the ministry. Some pastors with similar followings (cough - Joel Olsteen - cough) are worth north of $40 mil.

I decided over the weekend to spend some time praying for Rick, both for what he and his family must be going through, and that this would move his ministry in whatever direction God would have it to go. Can I suggest that others consider praying for Rick as well? We know that God works all things together for the good of those who love Him, who are called according to His purposes. I believe that there is reason to conclude Rick does indeed love God. Perhaps he is another Apollos? A man with a heart in the right place, but simply needing to be told more than the baptism of John the Baptist.


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## Bill The Baptist (Apr 10, 2013)

Paul1976 said:


> I agree Trent. Wherever Rick's head seems to be at times, his heart appears to be in the right place. He clearly has a passion with reaching many with the Gospel, and he appears to genuinely affirm much of what is important in the Gospel.



I certainly agree that we should all be praying for Pastor Warren during this difficult season, but let's not forget what the Apostle Paul taught us in Galatians, if you win someone with a false gospel, you have not won them at all. I think Jesus put it even more bluntly than Paul when he said "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you travel land and sea to win one proselyte, and when he is won, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves."


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## DMcFadden (Apr 10, 2013)

arap said:


> I don't necessarily want to derail the thread and start a posting war but...I understand the aggravation of Warren's ecumenism and disdain for doctrinal purity however, his son committed suicide a few days ago and I find it rather unsympathetic to bring this up now. But, what do I know?



No posting war. I'm not the biggest critic of Warren, but VERY much not a fan. Still, you are right to point out that a family tragedy trumps the normal course of affairs. Mea culpa if my comments were taken to be critical of the man. My point was to explain how his seminary pedigree makes it more likely that he will be a strong supporter of dialogue. On the subject of his family trials, no parent deserves to be critiqued about their parenting when suffering this particular heartbreak. Regardless of where you stand on his positions, I hope that we all agree in praying for our brother and his family in their time of need.

My point in a nutshell is that pretty much any graduate of the Pasadena temple with multiple altars to open mindedness, will come out feeling a need to reach out to those radically differing from them. Piper customarily took heat for some of the folks he invited to his conferences. Bell is the poster boy for offending his supposed core constituency. Why not Warren? Maybe it is the water that comes out of the fountains? Interviewing hundreds of candidates for ordination who did their MDiv's there, I noticed that they may disagree on Calvinism, Arminianism, eschatological schema, the Charismatic gifts, the authority of the Bible, etc. But, I have yet to meet even one who did not at least TEND to bend over backwards in affirming the views of those with whom he/she disagreed. Warren only did a DMin there, but . . .


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## Tyrese (Apr 10, 2013)

SolaScriptura said:


> In regards to Matt Chandler's thoroughly evangelical _The Explicit Gospel_, Warren gave this glowing endorsement: "If you read only one book this year, make it this one. It's _that_ important."
> 
> Clearly the man is doctrinally schizophrenic.



Sometimes I wonder if the people who endorse a lot of the popular authors today actually read the books they endorse.


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## Bill The Baptist (Apr 10, 2013)

On a related note, I just spent some time cleaning out our church library and I threw away at least 15 copies of the Purpose Driven Life/Church. I feel better now.


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## py3ak (Apr 10, 2013)

Rich Koster said:


> arap said:
> 
> 
> > I don't necessarily want to derail the thread and start a posting war but...I understand the aggravation of Warren's ecumenism and disdain for doctrinal purity however, his son committed suicide a few days ago and I find it rather unsympathetic to bring this up now. But, what do I know?
> ...



[Moderator]

It's not actually in a closed forum. It would probably be good for everyone to make an honest assessment, and if they wouldn't say it to Mr. Warren in person, to leave it unsaid here.

[/Moderator]


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## Edward (Apr 10, 2013)

Rich Koster said:


> This is in a closed forum.



Is it? I though Apologetics was an open forum.

Oops. I see that a moderator has already addressed that issue.


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## Rich Koster (Apr 10, 2013)

py3ak said:


> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
> > arap said:
> ...



My reverse logic error. I thought only the general categories were unrestricted. I would say what I said to him, but as I noted, would delay addressing the topic for a while.


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## SolaSaint (Apr 10, 2013)

Obviously my intent was not for RW to actually read my post. if I even thought he would have read it, I wouldn't have posted this due to the recent death of his son, I too have been praying for his family since this terrible suicide. Thanks Dennis for your post, it truly does shed light on Warren's worldview. He reminds me of a personal friend of mine that is also a pastor, he is so caught up in numbers and big churches that he cannot find it in himself to offend anyone, even with the truth. That is where I part with Warren. 

Again, please pray for Rick's family!!!!


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## A5pointer (Apr 10, 2013)

I am certain no one here has bad intentions on timing with this conversation. Conversely the man has been viciously attacked via social media by persons claiming to back same sex marriage to hating atheists, including questions of his son's destiny to it was god getting him. Very sad. His family sure needs the prayers.


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## Pilgrim (Apr 11, 2013)

Tyrese said:


> SolaScriptura said:
> 
> 
> > In regards to Matt Chandler's thoroughly evangelical _The Explicit Gospel_, Warren gave this glowing endorsement: "If you read only one book this year, make it this one. It's _that_ important."
> ...



Was there an evangelical book that J.I. Packer _didn't_ endorse in the 80's and 90's? Although most of them were fine, Peter Kreeft's _Ecumenical Jihad_ was probably the most infamous. Also, books will be sent to leaders for comment and I've heard that the publisher will sometimes take the comments out of context and make it look like an endorsement when overall the response is somewhat critical. 

There was the book that Carl Trueman negatively reviewed not long ago that eventually resulted in the publisher recalling it because it had so many glaring errors. Nevertheless, it had many glowing endorsements from some heavyweights in that field.

I think that Warren has at least partially rehabilitated his reputation among some conservative evangelicals with his sometimes "hard" Tweets on various issues as well as clear stands he's taken in the media on controversial subjects of the day when at least ostensibly Reformed man has waffled and given an unclear sound at times.


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