# Multiple Wives question



## Richard King (Dec 26, 2005)

I have been challenged to show in the Bible anywhere that says a man other than a deacon or elder should be the husband of one wife rather than two or three or four. I am having trouble making my counter argument using scripture. Any ideas?


----------



## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 26, 2005)

The Passage in Matthew 19

(Mat 19:4) He answered, "Have you not read that he who created them from the beginning made them male and female,

(Mat 19:5) and said, 'Therefore a man shall leave his father and his mother and hold fast to his *wife*, and they shall become one flesh'? _(not wives)_

(Mat 19:6) *So they are no longer two * but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let not man separate."


----------



## Contra_Mundum (Dec 27, 2005)

Practically every instance of multiple marriage in Scripture (and I cannot think of any exceptions) includes a depiction of strife, unless the text contains no details. "Multiplication of wives" was among the first explicit sinful abberations in Scripture, Gen. 4:19. Lamech, an evidently evil man, was possessed of two wives, a fact of such novelty that it drew the writer's notice. The king was explicitly forbidden to own a harem, Deut. 17:17. Why? Because he was to live a "more austere" life than a regular guy was allowed to? Or was it because he needed to be warned not to succumb to temptations that, as a king, were even easier to fall for? The more women a man has (or vice versa), the harder it is _not_ to view the other gender as compriesd of _objects_, and not people. Hence, multiple wives were a status symbol in the Ancient world. Hence, Israelite leaders were pointedly told to stay within bounds.

The king, the elder, these men are to be moral exemlpars. They are to actually achieve (in superior degree) what each one of us is called to. Their public position makes their sin more egregious. It does not put things "off limits" that formerly were OK. Men in office are _privileged_ (I know that word is distasteful to many, especially in our egalitarian culture). "Stewards of mysteries" is a profound phrase. Privileged people have more rights (not less), as well as more responsibility. Greater recognition... and greater JUDGMENT.

If someone is looking for an excuse to sin, they can and will make all kinds of demands of God.


> "O, God. If you are really there do a miracle for me. Right now. Part the Red Sea. And if you are too tired to do that today, just part my hair. That will be enough. Nope? Well then, I don't believe you."





> "Show me the verse that says I can't have two wives, and don't try to pull that king or elder junk on me, cuz I'm not either one of those. Can't do it, huh? Well then don't tell me I can't, cuz if God didn't want me to have two or more, he should have said so: NO DON'T."


 But if God would jump through these hoops on demand, then he would hardly be the GOD who tells us which hoops to jump through now, would he?

Paul condemns consorting with prostitutes, not least for which this act "unites Christ with a harlot" in a perverse mockery of intimacy and _oneness_. It is irrefutable that multiple wives evidently distorts the "oneness" principle. It is barely removed from concubinage, and that is nothing but a repackaging of the whore's trade without the casualness or blatant mercenary cast. On the other hand, one-at-a-time espousals after a death preserves the "oneness" principle on the grounds that there is no marriage relations that persist after this life.


----------



## C. Matthew McMahon (Dec 27, 2005)

If a man from another culture that had multiple wives wanted to join your church after moving to the US with his harem, would you let him?

Would you tell him he should divorce all but one?

How would that fit into "divorce" and God's anger against it after they are already married?


----------



## crhoades (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> If a man from another culture that had multiple wives wanted to join your church after moving to the US with his harem, would you let him?
> 
> Would you tell him he should divorce all but one?
> ...



I remember Bahnsen arguing for not divorcing but neither permitting any future marriages. No need to break a covenant - till death do us part...


----------



## Anton Bruckner (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> Practically every instance of multiple marriage in Scripture (and I cannot think of any exceptions) includes a depiction of strife, unless the text contains no details.


the above is so true. The conflict that polygamy brings is heart aching. After reading what Joseph went through with Rachel and Leah, and what Hannah went through before God blessed her with Samuel, I don't know why any man in his right mind would want more than one wife.

The very fact that God showed us the conflicts within the households of these righteous men, shows that God knew what He was talking about when He retricted marriage with one man to one woman. Even the hint of creation where God made Eve for Adam, not Eve and Laura for Adam. Before the flood, 2 of every unclean animals were sent into the Ark, male and female. And Noah and his 3 sons each had ONE wife. The wicked braggart Lamech had two wives in the pre flood world and he was a descendant of Cain, and all his posterity perished during the flood.


----------



## Anton Bruckner (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> If a man from another culture that had multiple wives wanted to join your church after moving to the US with his harem, would you let him?


He's allowed to keep both of his wives, but he is not allowed to become an Elder, Deacon, Pastor, Bishop or any position of leadership.

Likewise he is not allowed to divorce any of his wives or non of his wives are permitted to divorce him except their be adultery.


----------



## BrianBowman (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> ...



Sproul says fundamentally the same thing.


----------



## Ivan (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> Practically every instance of multiple marriage in Scripture (and I cannot think of any exceptions) includes a depiction of strife



Not to be flippant, but there's a surprise!


----------



## BrianBowman (Dec 27, 2005)

> _Originally posted by Contra_Mundum_
> Practically every instance of multiple marriage in Scripture (and I cannot think of any exceptions) includes a depiction of strife



... not to mention a lineage that is usuallly replete with progressive idolatry and general lack of conscience toward the commandments of God. Marital violations that produce divided families be it from polygamy or divorce provide some of the clearest examples of "the sins of the fathers being visted upon the children to the third and forth generation".


----------



## BrianBowman (Dec 28, 2005)

It seem like Genesis 2:24 (and Christ's commentary on it in Matthew cpts. 5, 19, etc) implies the exclusivity of marriage to one man and one woman (at a time). When the Lord of the universe defines marriage in the opening chapters of His Word, then that's the definition we all should aim to uphold. Our own American culture is cursed with much adultery and/or divorce (and remarriage - which many view as a form of polygamy). It could be viewed we are more hypocritical then our brethren in other lands who "address this problem" by simply taking multiple wives where there is no doubt levels of favoritism practiced. 

In all cases this falls far short of God's glory AND it has a didactic function as well.

The children of polygamy, adultery, divorce, and divorce with remarriage where there is not *clear cut* biblical grounds cannot help but be affected in the development of their conscience as to what is "normal" in marriage and family life ... and the sins often go on generationally.

I'm from a broken home and I have 5 step-siblings. The oldest 4 of us all been divorced at least once. Two of my step-sibs are on their third marriages (and doing VERY well for nearly 20 years each now - praise God). I cannot help but think how different things could have been if only the two families that were destroyed would have remained covenantally intact. My only repose from the curse of this has been the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the pure love of my new wife of almost 9 years.


----------



## Puritan Sailor (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by crhoades_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> ...



The more I have thought about this issue, the more I think this is the biblical position. It seems to me the only one which does the best to harmonize the requiremements of marriage and family. 

In Africa, they often demand a polygamous convert remain sexually faithful to his first wife alone, but still require him to take care of his other wives materially along with any children from them. That seems to me to be defrauding the other wives, especially if they are not allowed to divorce and remarry. 

This is a real issue on the mission field though.


----------



## non dignus (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> If a man from another culture that had multiple wives wanted to join your church after moving to the US with his harem, would you let him?
> 
> Would you tell him he should divorce all but one?
> ...



I would let him. He should not be compelled to separate. 

His first marriage only is binding. It must be demonstrated that he did not knowingly sin in marrying the second woman. In other words, I can't just go to 'Polonia' and add more wives and come back and say, "What?" :bigsmile:

Love demands compassion on the later women he married. 

Also it is possible, if a great need arises and no other could fill the office , that he temporarily be an overseer.


----------



## BrianBowman (Dec 28, 2005)

> _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> If a man from another culture that had multiple wives wanted to join your church after moving to the US with his harem, would you let him?



How could he move to the US with his "harem" and live legally here? Can a lawyer here on PB answer this? Is not polygamy illegal (OK maybe not in Utah )?

[Edited on 12-28-2005 by BrianBowman]


----------



## CalsFarmer (Dec 29, 2005)

I guess now we know why women would never practice polygamy...I cannot think of one reason why I would want more than one husband....


----------



## LadyFlynt (Dec 29, 2005)

> _Originally posted by CalsFarmer_
> I guess now we know why women would never practice polygamy...I cannot think of one reason why I would want more than one husband....



No Kidding...one is more than enough!!!


----------



## py3ak (Dec 29, 2005)

Actually, there are a couple of cultures where polyandry is practised. National Geographic mentioned one in a magazine that was devoted to marriage customs, and I believe made reference in passing to a second.


----------



## Scott Shahan (Mar 21, 2006)

In John 4:18 does Jesus acknowledge multiple marriages? 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband.


----------



## Mike (Mar 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BrianBowman_
> How could he move to the US with his "harem" and live legally here? Can a lawyer here on PB answer this? Is not polygamy illegal (OK maybe not in Utah )?


I'm no lawyer, but I am a would-be theologan. I would tend to think that even if only the first marriage is honored by US law, that this would only affect his tax obligation with Uncle Sam, not his moral obligation before God.


----------



## VictorBravo (Mar 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by BrianBowman_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by C. Matthew McMahon_
> ...



Illegal in all 50 states. The question becomes interesting if, upon a prosecution, the man claims a First Amendment freedom of religion defense. 

My guess would be that, as in Utah more and more, the State will not prosecute, nor will it recognize the marriages either. It presents an intersting legal conundrum that I think prosecutors would like to avoid. 

But if homosexual marriage is legalized, Katy bar the doors. There will be no principled secular reason to keep polygamy illegal.

Vic


----------



## Contra_Mundum (Mar 21, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Scott Shahan_
> In John 4:18 does Jesus acknowledge multiple marriages? 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one you now have is not your husband.


She apparently had been the wife of five different men _in succession_ and was now sleeping with a sixth man, not even having the marriage bond.


----------

