# "Holy Place" question



## Scot (Nov 2, 2005)

O.k., I'm reading "End Times Fiction" by Demar and I have a question. I'll admit that I haven't studied alot on the different views of eschatology, so maybe some of you guys that have studied more can help me out.

Right now in the book, I'm going through the explanation of Matthew 24. Everything makes good sense until I get to Matthew 14:15-16. The part that I'm having trouble with is the "abomination of desolation" standing in the "holy place."

Of course, Demar talks about the Roman soldiers offering sacrifices to their heathen gods at the temple.

My question is "Didn't the temple cease to be a holy place at Christ's death?"

If so, then the action of the Roman soldiers could not have been a fullfilment of this prophecy. The temple was no longer considered a holy place when they committed these acts.

Any comments/explanations?

(Sorry if this has been covered before)


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## Anton Bruckner (Nov 2, 2005)

I think Luke 21:20 provides a parallel to that same scripture where "standing in the Holy Place", becomes, "When you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies".

I agree with you in that, if the Abomination of Desolation is specifically the Romans offering sacrifices to their gods in the temple and only that, then there wouldn't be enough time for the Christians to flee. Why? Because by the time the Roman legions entered Jerusalem, the inhabitants of the city were virtually destroyed from starvation, murders, internal wars etc.

This is why I deduce that the Abomination of Desolation signifies some event that is early, so that when the Christians see it, they will have an opportunity to escape, whereas when an unbeliever sees if, he will be totally oblivious and go about life as normal.

[Edited on 11-2-2005 by Slippery]


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## BobVigneault (Nov 2, 2005)

Yes, I agree with Keon, the Holy Place can just as easily be Jerusalem the city. The abomination that 'brings' desolation was in the holy place. Amazingly the Romans began to seige Jerusalem under Gallus in 66 but for strange reasons Gallus withdrew. This seems to have been seen as the sign Jesus spoke of and the Church escaped Jerusalem and went north to Pella. 

After the humiliation of Gallus, Nero sent Vespasian to destroy Jerusalem.


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## non dignus (Nov 2, 2005)

I would say that it was holy at the time Jesus made the statement. 

Also Jehovah used pagan place names that were in use to the hearers. (Ex 14:2) Thus, Jesus used the known terminology even though it wouldn't be technically true at the time of fulfillment. 

Also David wouldn't countenance killing Saul even though he was out of favor (since Saul had been anointed). Perhaps there is such a thing as residual holiness. ?

Incidentally, I failed to find in my search program any reference to Jerusalem as 'the holy place'.


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## BobVigneault (Nov 2, 2005)

Neh 11:1 Now the leaders of the people lived in Jerusalem. And the rest of the people cast lots to bring one out of ten to live in Jerusalem the holy city, while nine out of ten remained in the other towns.

Isa 48:2 For they call themselves after the holy city, 
and stay themselves on the God of Israel;
the Lord of hosts is his name.

Isa 52:1 Awake, awake,
put on your strength, O Zion;
put on your beautiful garments,
O Jerusalem, the holy city;
for there shall no more come into you
the uncircumcised and the unclean.

Isa 66:20 And they shall bring all your brothers from all the nations as an offering to the Lord, on horses and in chariots and in litters and on mules and on dromedaries, to my holy mountain Jerusalem, says the Lord, just as the Israelites bring their grain offering in a clean vessel to the house of the Lord.

Dan 9:16 "œO Lord, according to all your righteous acts, let your anger and your wrath turn away from your city Jerusalem, your holy hill, because for our sins, and for the iniquities of our fathers, Jerusalem and your people have become a byword among all who are around us.

Dan 9:24 "œSeventy weeks are decreed about your people and your holy city, to finish the transgression, to put an end to sin, and to atone for iniquity, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal both vision and prophet, and to anoint a most holy place. 

Joel 3:17 "œSo you shall know that I am the Lord your God,
who dwells in Zion, my holy mountain.
And Jerusalem shall be holy,
and strangers shall never again pass through it.


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## non dignus (Nov 2, 2005)

Good point. I wonder why Jesus didn't say 'Holy City'. 

In Dan 9:24, there seems to be a distinction between 'holy city' and 'holy place'.


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## Anton Bruckner (Nov 3, 2005)

> _Originally posted by non dignus_
> Good point. I wonder why Jesus didn't say 'Holy City'.
> 
> In Dan 9:24, there seems to be a distinction between 'holy city' and 'holy place'.


veiled. He also spoke in parables. I think Luke 21:20 provides enough substance so as to clarify what the Abomination of Desolation truly is.


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## BobVigneault (Nov 3, 2005)

David, here is an online booklet regarding Matt 24 by Brian Schwertley. I've been reading a bit of this each day and finding it very interesting. He's done a lot of spade work on this one.

http://reformedonline.com/view/reformedonline/Tribulation.htm


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## non dignus (Nov 3, 2005)

Thank you Bob and Keon.


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