# Sabbath observation poll



## Scott1 (Jul 28, 2008)

What do Puritan Board members think about applicability of the Fourth Commandment, Exodus 20:8-11, restated Deuteronomy 5:12-15?

Ordinarily, not including emergency or unusual situations involving works of necessity or mercy, what is required by the Fourth Commandment?


----------



## ADKing (Jul 28, 2008)

According to the Westminster Larger Catechism (with which I agree fully)

Question 116: What is required in the fourth commandment?

Answer: The fourth commandment requires of all men the sanctifying or keeping holy to God such set times as he has appointed in his Word, expressly one whole day in seven; which was the seventh from the beginning of the world to the resurrection of Christ, and the first day of the week ever since, and so to continue to the end of the world; which is the Christian sabbath, and in the New Testament called the Lord's day.

Question 117: How is the sabbath or the Lord's day to be sanctified?

Answer: The sabbath or Lord's day is to be sanctified by an holy resting all the day, not only from such works as are at all times sinful, but even from such worldly employments and recreations as are on other days lawful; and making it our delight to spend the whole time (except so much of it as is to betaken up in works of necessity and mercy) in the public and private exercises of God's worship: and, to that end, we are to prepare our hearts, and with such foresight, diligence, and moderation, to dispose and seasonably dispatch our worldly business, that we may be the more free and fit for the duties of that day.

Question 119: What are the sins forbidden in the fourth commandment?

Answer: The sins forbidden in the fourth commandment are, all omissions of the duties required, all careless, negligent, and unprofitable performing of them, and being weary of them; all profaning the day by idleness, and doing that which is in itself sinful; and by all needless works, words, and thoughts, about our worldly employments and recreations.


----------



## greenbaggins (Jul 28, 2008)

This is my argument for why the Sabbath continues today.


----------



## Pergamum (Jul 28, 2008)

The recreation category still needs to be further defined.


I shun organized sports and activities on Sunday and yet recreation with family is nothing more than family time and being with the ones you love and should not be clumped with Soccer League after church.

I hold out that some recreation is actually rest, such as me and my son chasing lizards and me going for a jog on Sunday.


----------



## Pergamum (Jul 28, 2008)

Scott1 said:


> > Pergamum
> > Puritanboard Postgraduate
> >
> > and me going for a job on Sunday.
> ...



HA! My own conscience convicts me and makes me spell it wrong I guess! It's corrected.


----------



## Kevin (Jul 28, 2008)

Pergamum said:


> The recreation category still needs to be further defined.
> 
> 
> I shun organized sports and activities on Sunday and yet recreation with family is nothing more than family time and being with the ones you love and should not be clumped with Soccer League after church.
> ...


----------



## jaybird0827 (Jul 28, 2008)

First option.

To "remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy" is to do so on the other six days. Part of the preparation is making every effort to wise use of the 144 hours the Lord has so generously given us for our own employments and recreations so as to conclude that business by the close of the day prior.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 28, 2008)

*EDIT*

What is meant by advanced preparation?


----------



## SRoper (Jul 28, 2008)

I chose the first choice, although I think the need for preparation in advance needs to take Matthew 12 into account (it's strange that the disciples didn't gather enough food the day before). Also, I think taking a walk on the Sabbath is acceptable while organized sports are not. There's a bunch of recreation in between those that two activities that I'm not sure about.


----------



## Scott1 (Jul 28, 2008)

Davidius said:


> Why do the same people say that the Sabbath day has moved to the first day of the week so that we may look back on it, as the Jews looked forward to the coming rest, also say that we need to "prepare" for the Sabbath? It seems to me that it's either something we look forward toward, or something we look backwards toward. Isn't looking forward to it in preparing going back to the function of the Sabbath under the Old Covenant?




The answer to your question may be related to the way in which Exodus looks (back) at Creation in preface to the Command, whereas Deuteronomy looks at redemption (forward) in preface to the Command. The Sabbath respresents two benefits- creation and redemption.

Also, in the Old Testament times the day before the Sabbath was often called the Preparation Day. They prepared in advance for it so as to not be distracted from observing it by getting done ordinary tasks beforehand. (cf John 19:31, Mark 15:42)


----------



## Ivan (Jul 28, 2008)

Davidius said:


> *EDIT*
> 
> What is meant by advanced preparation?



Such as preparing all meals for Sunday on Saturday.


----------



## Davidius (Jul 28, 2008)

Okay, I was wondering whether "preparation" meant necessary tasks or some kind of spiritual meditation/contemplation.


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2008)

SRoper said:


> I chose the first choice, although I think the need for preparation in advance needs to take Matthew 12 into account (it's strange that the disciples didn't gather enough food the day before). Also, I think taking a walk on the Sabbath is acceptable while organized sports are not. There's a bunch of recreation in between those that two activities that I'm not sure about.



I think it is relatively clear from the historical data that the drafters of the Confession were talking about "recreations" such as bear-baiting and other things in the "Book of Sports" published and ramrodded by King James, and not walking, etc.

I would argue by modern application we should not watch NFL games (for example), but may walk with our kids, etc.


----------



## Roldan (Jul 28, 2008)

It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2008)

Roldan said:


> It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!



Not meaning to hurt you, but would it "seem like Judaism" to you if a discussion was had with respect to what it means to keep the 5th commandment (i.e. who are my father and mother? what does honor mean?) or the ninth (what does it mean to bear false witness?) ?


----------



## JohnGill (Jul 28, 2008)

*A Brave Man*



fredtgreco said:


> SRoper said:
> 
> 
> > I chose the first choice, although I think the need for preparation in advance needs to take Matthew 12 into account (it's strange that the disciples didn't gather enough food the day before). Also, I think taking a walk on the Sabbath is acceptable while organized sports are not. There's a bunch of recreation in between those that two activities that I'm not sure about.
> ...



You forgot NASCAR, Golf, & Baseball.

I agree that historically recreation was referring to the "Book of Sports" and other such things. If it forbade all things that might be considered recreation I wouldn't be allowed to memorize my Bible. And such a definition of recreation would ultimately reduce to subjectivism. I think Isaiah 58:13 & 14 are a good rule for what to do on the Sabbath.


----------



## Roldan (Jul 28, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Roldan said:
> 
> 
> > It all seems like Judaism to me.....Don't hurt me!
> ...



No


----------



## ericfromcowtown (Jul 28, 2008)

I voted "Abstain from work but not not advance preparation or abstaining from recreation."

However, as others have stated "recreation" is a pretty broad term. We'll go for walks or I'll go for a run on a Sunday, but I wouldn't feel okay about organized team sports for instance. 

The same goes for "advance preparation." We prepare in advance by doing our shopping on Saturday and making sure that the car is filled with gas etc.. , so that this doesn't need to happen on the Sabbath, but my wife doesn't pre-make meals.


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2008)

Roldan said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Roldan said:
> ...



So then your position is that the 4th commandment is not as "good" as the other 9, right? It only is subject to "Judaizing?"


----------



## Roldan (Jul 28, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Roldan said:
> 
> 
> > fredtgreco said:
> ...



Not that its not as good but that its shadow is fulfilled in Christ. Why are we even calling it a Sabbath anyways when its the Lord's Day? It wasn't changed from Saturday to Sunday for no reason and why are we puting back a shadow on top of the reality? Do you guys also have a cut off time like at 6pm or something that would only be consistent sabbath law requirements, I just think option #1 goes way to far. I agree with Calvin on this


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2008)

Roldan said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Roldan said:
> ...



And none of the other commandments have their substance fulfilled in Christ? He does not show us what it means to truly live and not kill? Or to truly honor our father and mother? Or to truly not covet? He only fulfills 1/10th of the Law?

I would think that it goes even more "far" to say that one random brief (2 sec?) thought of anger violates "thou shalt not kill."


----------



## Roldan (Jul 28, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Roldan said:
> 
> 
> > fredtgreco said:
> ...



Well sure the principles are there and I'm not saying we are not to observe the Lord's Day but that all this preperation stuff and not watching football and not being able to put gas in your car or mow the lawn or go fishing with my kids to enjoy God's creation etc.... is pushing it. Thats a works based observation of that day, not applicable to us, I'm free in Christ my Rest


----------



## NaphtaliPress (Jul 28, 2008)

Twisse (and Miller) on recreations.
http://www.puritanboard.com/328211-post109.html


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2008)

Roldan said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Roldan said:
> ...



So again, it would be "works based" for me to _prepare _for a meeting with someone who gets under my skin so that I don't get angry and break the 6th commandment? It would be a work for me to _think about _how I could best preserve someone's reputation and keep the 9th commandment? I should instead just be "in the spirit" and wing it, and if I break the 6th commandment, so be it?


----------



## Roldan (Jul 28, 2008)

fredtgreco said:


> Roldan said:
> 
> 
> > fredtgreco said:
> ...




I hope I'm not making you angry Fred cause thats the last thing I would want to do, I have nothing but respect for you and always look forward to your post to learn.

I'm just saying that on the Lord's Day we are to apply the principle of keeping the sabbath by going to worship and celebrate Christ but without all the Old Economy Jewish details that you guys are imposing upon the church, after all even Christ and His Apostles gathered food on the Sabbath to eat so why can't my wife cook so my family could eat? Why didn't Christ gather food on Friday to prepare to eat on the Jewish Sabbath?


----------



## jwithnell (Jul 28, 2008)

In teaching my kids about the sabbath, I have tried to use the emphasis given by the writer of Hebrews -- there is now therefore a sabbath rest for those of us who are in Christ ... This is a precious gift given by our loving father. 

After working straight through two Sundays while assigned to the northern California wildfires, I recently had the chance to marvel at how richly God provides for us. That under normal (non-emergency) circumstances, He is giving us all we need by working six days so we can rest on the seventh. We can spend a whole day worshipping Him, and learning his ways. We can engage in rich fellowship with other believers.

It is well worth my time on the other six days of the week to prepare for this celebration both physically and spiritually. Some weeks are better than others (envision kids sick, laundry piling up in the corner ...) But the general ordering of our lives is to see the Lord's day as set apart, holy.


----------



## fredtgreco (Jul 28, 2008)

Roldan said:


> fredtgreco said:
> 
> 
> > Roldan said:
> ...



Roldan,

You're not making me angry at all. I'm sorry if I gave that impression. I just wanted you to think through the consequences of your position. I don't believe I ever said that you should not cook and eat on the Lord's Day. I certainly do!

It is a day to be set apart, and is not abrogated. But we certainly can perform works of necessity like eating and cooking (in my opinion).


----------



## Davidius (Jul 29, 2008)

Fred,

Please correct me if I'm mistaken, but I believe that preparing food was not a work of necessity for the Jews. It was something that could be punished as a Sabbatarian violation. On what grounds could we say that it has become a work of necessity?


----------



## Scott1 (Jul 29, 2008)

The poll has closed.

One way of looking at the poll of Puritan Board members is that about 2/3 (67.92%) believe that the Fourth Commandment ordinarily requires advance preparation, and abstaining from work.

More than 5/6 (86.79%) believe the Commandment ordinarily requires abstaining from work.

I encourage each one of us to search the Scriptures and Confession summaries of doctrine pertaining to this. Very few things affect our lifestyle, community and outward testimony more visibley than this Commandment.


----------

