# When Jesus spoke of the world...



## blhowes (Nov 9, 2012)

John 3:16-17 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 

When Jesus spoke these words, do you think it was clear to those who heard him what the word "world" meant? How would they have understood it? Did they understand it to mean the world in general, or just those who believed?


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## TylerRay (Nov 9, 2012)

If Nicodemus (who appears to have been the only one present) understood the Old Testament at all, he would have known that Messiah brings both judgment and salvation.


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## blhowes (Nov 9, 2012)

TylerRay said:


> (who appears to have been the only one present)


I always assumed the disciples were present, at least John.


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## TylerRay (Nov 9, 2012)

blhowes said:


> TylerRay said:
> 
> 
> > (who appears to have been the only one present)
> ...



Perhaps they were. Still, the Old Testament, and the ministry of Jesus itself testify against universalism. The Disciples would have had no excuse to think Jesus was teaching universal salvation after hearing such teaching as this:


> 13 “Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. 14 Because narrow is the gate and difficult is the way which leads to life, and there are few who find it." - Matt 7:13-14



Given, the encounter with Nicodemus may have happened before the preaching of the Sermon on the Mount (Matt 4:23-25), but I cannot fathom the disciples never having heard the exclusivity of their Lord's teaching. His teaching, as it is recorded in scripture, is absolutely filled with exclusivity.


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## JoannaV (Nov 9, 2012)

The world, as in not just Jews.


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## Jerusalem Blade (Nov 9, 2012)

I would say He meant all the nations of the world, including Israel, and in particular the elect who should be called. These are whom God loved – those who would believe. In 1 John 2:2 we have a similar usage, "And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world." Both uses extend the Jews' view that salvation was only for them, but was to include the elect in _all_ the nations.


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## KMK (Nov 9, 2012)

There is some disagreement as to whether Jesus is still speaking to Nicodemus at verse 14, or if John the narrator has taken over at verse 14. Regardless, John's audience would have understood the contrast made between the lifting up of the serpent to Israel in verse 14, to the lifting up of Jesus to the nations of the world in verse 16.


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## MW (Nov 9, 2012)

In the Gospel of John itself "the world" is more a moral than an anthropological entity. It is a "what" rather than a "whom." It is a God-hating, darkness-loving, Christ-rejecting disposition. The immensity and wonder of God's love is seen in for "what" rather than for "whom" He gave His Son. The issue of universalism is really an imposition on the text which spoils the message of the Gospel.


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