# Ridiculously specific doctrinal question about my church



## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Hey all, this Sunday my church is having a membership class (first one since I started attending) and I will be attending the class so I can join. There will be a time for questions about the church, and my pastor told me on the phone yesterday that he expects at least one really good question from me. So...

I was thinking of coming up with some ridiculously specific how-many-angels-on-the-head-of-a-pin kind of question, just to mess with him. Maybe some stupidly specific question about his eschatology or something like that. Any funny suggestions for something I could ask?

(Don't worry, I will ask the serious questions too).


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## westminken (Sep 25, 2009)

Ask him about the Van Til-Clark controversy that Dr. Oliphint wanted us to know for AP 101.. He will know exactly what I am talking about. Maybe a better one is where did he really find the rooster.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

westminken said:


> Ask him about the Van Til-Clark controversy that Dr. Oliphint wanted us to know for AP 101.. He will know exactly what I am talking about. Maybe a better one is where did he really find the rooster.


Aaron found a rooster?

Oh, and thanks! I should have known to ask someone who knows him.


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## larryjf (Sep 25, 2009)

Ask him ...

"If Codex Bezae has the original text at Lk 6:5, then is keeping the Sabbath only required of those who are convinced of it?"

Here is the text from the codex...



> The same day, He saw a certain man working on the sabbath and said to him: Man, if you know what you are doing, you are blessed. But, if you do not know, you are accursed, and a trespasser of the law


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## Sonoftheday (Sep 25, 2009)

Just straight face ask him if he is Pretrib rapture, midtrib rapture, or Posttrib rapture. This happened recently to me (by a dispensationalist), I found it hilarious because it denied any possibility of a Christian holding to anything other than Dispensational premil. If he's a dispensationalist I guess this question wouldnt be funny though.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Sonoftheday said:


> Just straight face ask him if he is Pretrib rapture, midtrib rapture, or Posttrib rapture. This happened recently to me (by a dispensationalist), I found it hilarious because it denied any possibility of a Christian holding to anything other than Dispensational premil. If he's a dispensationalist I guess this question wouldnt be funny though.


No, he's not dispensationalist. I don't think Dispensationalists are even allowed to be ordained in the PCA. In fact, I'm pretty much 100%. They examine ministerial candidates pretty hardcore on doctrine...I love it. 

-----Added 9/25/2009 at 09:38:06 EST-----

Thanks for the question, that would be a good one.


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 25, 2009)

A really good question. 

Was Paul speaking of his life as a believer or unbeliever in Romans 7 and how does the believer do battle with indwelling Sin?


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## Berean (Sep 25, 2009)

This poor guy has no idea what he's walking into, the trap he's laid for himself.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Berean said:


> This poor guy has no idea what he's walking into, the trap he's laid for himself.


I told him on the phone he shouldn't have said that he expected a good question from me. I said I would drill him in detail on his eschatology, etc. lol


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## Edward (Sep 25, 2009)

austinww said:


> I don't think Dispensationalists are even allowed to be ordained in the PCA. In fact, I'm pretty much 100%. They examine ministerial candidates pretty hardcore on doctrine...I love it.



You DO have a lot to learn about the PCA.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Edward said:


> austinww said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Dispensationalists are even allowed to be ordained in the PCA. In fact, I'm pretty much 100%. They examine ministerial candidates pretty hardcore on doctrine...I love it.
> ...


Seems like that would be a long list of exceptions. But I know Aaron's not dispensational, even if the denomination is not consistent on upholding covenant theology across the board. He was raised bapticostal, and had quite an experience turning away from all that in college. 

-----Added 9/25/2009 at 09:58:35 EST-----

Bear in mind that I'm comparing the PCA to my arminian southern baptist background, not to other Presbyterian denominations. The ministerial examination at my old SBC church consisted of "Brother, have you done got borned again?" jk jk My pastor now was asked MUCH more detailed questions than that.


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## Jake (Sep 25, 2009)

Ask about the triclavianist debate!


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Jake said:


> Ask about the triclavianist debate!


Good one!

-----Added 9/25/2009 at 10:05:24 EST-----

My apologies to the reformed southern baptists on this board. I know it is a diverse denomination. But I reserve the right to make fun of my background in the SBC.


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## Caroline (Sep 25, 2009)

> Any funny suggestions for something I could ask?



Well, the first thing I asked my pastor was whether he really believes in God. I wasn't trying to be funny, but I did get the feeling that people don't ask him that a lot.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Caroline said:


> > Any funny suggestions for something I could ask?
> 
> 
> 
> Well, the first thing I asked my pastor was whether he really believes in God. I wasn't trying to be funny, but I did get the feeling that people don't ask him that a lot.


Interesting. Didn't you wonder why he was up there preaching on Sundays? haha. But now that I think about it, I have heard of an "atheist pastor" in Scotland, not to mention Bishop Spong, who said monotheism was outdated.


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## Caroline (Sep 25, 2009)

austinww said:


> Caroline said:
> 
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> > > Any funny suggestions for something I could ask?
> ...



Well, my some of my previous pastors were too often in habit of engaging in gross sins (stealing from the church, committing adultery, etc). I always suspected that they didn't really believe in God. I mean, how could someone believe in God and still do those things with no remorse or fear? I thought it would be helpful to find a pastor who believes in God because then he'd probably have more hesitation about that sort of thing.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Caroline said:


> austinww said:
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> > Caroline said:
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Gotcha. That makes sense. Although I imagine you would have trouble getting an honest answer out of one of them.


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## Edward (Sep 25, 2009)

austinww said:


> Edward said:
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> > austinww said:
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Based on results, it appears that some Presbyteries might be more diligent in their examinations, and others more generous in their allowances. I'm not making any reference to South Texas presbytery here.


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## Nathan Riese (Sep 25, 2009)

Sonoftheday said:


> Just straight face ask him if he is Pretrib rapture, midtrib rapture, or Posttrib rapture. This happened recently to me (by a dispensationalist), I found it hilarious because it denied any possibility of a Christian holding to anything other than Dispensational premil. If he's a dispensationalist I guess this question wouldnt be funny though.



Oh my goodness this happens to me all the time!

I go to a Dispensational school though, so, when I answer back with "ACTually....i'm...i'm...i'm amil, please don't burn me at the stake!" to which they say, "what's that?"

But yeah, i suggest asking him what he suggested, just straight up ask him those three options, it makes a good laugh to those who hold amil or postmil beliefs.


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## toddpedlar (Sep 25, 2009)

Ask him if he can explain what _extracalvinisticum_ is...


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## Caroline (Sep 25, 2009)

austinww said:


> Caroline said:
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> > austinww said:
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True. But it's surprising what you can learn sometimes by asking.

But one that might be funny woud be to ask, "Can cats go to heaven?" It might help to sell it if you look really angst-ridden, too, as though your beloved Fluffy just died this morning.


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## au5t1n (Sep 25, 2009)

Edward, that makes sense to me. I shouldn't have suggested that the PCA is uniform when it comes to ministerial requirements. It is about 100x the doctrinal accountability of my last church, but I know it's somewhat, shall we say, "broad" as far as Reformed denominations go, although not compared to the PCUSA or even the EPC. Am I on the right track here?

Mr. Pedlar, 
I had to google that. VERY interesting.

-----Added 9/25/2009 at 11:55:52 EST-----



Caroline said:


> austinww said:
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Thanks, I think I will!


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## Confessor (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him which Anabaptist heresy is the worst.


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

Confessor said:


> Ask him which Anabaptist heresy is the worst.


That one really takes the cake, especially since my credo roommate will be there!


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## Confessor (Sep 26, 2009)




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## Contra Marcion (Sep 26, 2009)

Honestly - I had one such wiseacre in a Sunday school class I was teaching (on 1 Samuel), and I asked "Are there any questions?". One hand went up....The question? "Who wrote Hebrews?" I was at a loss.....completely unprepared for that one!


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## N. Eshelman (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him if the PCA and the OPC are going to merge in the next 5 years, and then say that you were under the impression that they were and it is a pre-requistite for you joining.


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## Blue Tick (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him if he's asked Jesus into his heart? If he hasn't lead him in the sinners prayer... Begin with... Pastor repeat after me...


Ask him if he thinks Nicolae Carpathia is the Anti-Christ.


Ask him if you can lead an altar call prayer after the class.


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## ewenlin (Sep 26, 2009)

blue tick said:


> ask him if he's asked Jesus into his heart? If he hasn't lead him in the sinners prayer... Begin with... Pastor repeat after me...
> 
> 
> Ask him if he thinks nicolae carpathia is the anti-Christ.
> ...



do this!!!


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## Athaleyah (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him the spiritual significance of each of the ineffective things that Samson told Delilah that he could be bound with: undried bow strings, new ropes, and the "lobes" of his hair.


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## Eoghan (Sep 26, 2009)

*John 3:16 (John 3:11-21)*

Ask him where in the passage the evangelist intends to end Jesus' words and begin his own?

I didn't know this was a problem until C. A. Carson spoke of it (p99 Exegetical Fallacies) Apparently there is no clear answer!

-----Added 9/26/2009 at 03:28:50 EST-----

Ask Him what "Do not answer a fool according to his folly" mean? (26:4) 

Pause for the explanation, then ask the supplementary question, what does "Answer a fool according to his folly" mean? (26:5) 

It should lead into a discussion of the nature of Proverbs and that they cannot be taken at face value.


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

Athaleyah said:


> Ask him the spiritual significance of each of the ineffective things that Samson told Delilah that he could be bound with: undried bow strings, new ropes, and the "lobes" of his hair.


That will be hard to answer! 

-----Added 9/26/2009 at 10:28:42 EST-----



Eoghan said:


> Ask him where in the passage the evangelist intends to end Jesus' words and begin his own?
> 
> I didn't know this was a problem until C. A. Carson spoke of it (p99 Exegetical Fallacies) Apparently there is no clear answer!
> 
> ...


Ahh yes, I first heard of the first problem when I found out that John 3:16 might not have been spoken by Jesus...you can imagine my poor little Arminian heartbreak!


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## Caroline (Sep 26, 2009)

Athaleyah said:


> Ask him the spiritual significance of each of the ineffective things that Samson told Delilah that he could be bound with: undried bow strings, new ropes, and the "lobes" of his hair.



Well, now I really want to ask my pastor that to see the look on his face .... Except if he's reading this, he'll have an answer ready ...


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

I appreciate all the responses. I will have to pick one or two, but perhaps I will show this thread to my pastor afterwards.  I think I'm definitely going to have to go with westminken's since he knows Aaron and has given me inside info. that will make Aaron think I was spying on him back in seminary.


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## OPC'n (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him who the spirits are in 1Peter 3:19.


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## Mark Hettler (Sep 26, 2009)

So what?

(That's not my response to this thread, that's my suggested question.)


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

Mark Hettler said:


> So what?
> 
> (That's not my response to this thread, that's my suggested question.)


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## Rich Koster (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him if the second time he was slain in the spirit was as good as the first


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## Caroline (Sep 26, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> Ask him if the second time he was slain in the spirit was as good as the first



Ok, that one had me laughing out loud.


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

Caroline said:


> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
> > Ask him if the second time he was slain in the spirit was as good as the first
> ...


Me too! 

-----Added 9/26/2009 at 01:40:44 EST-----

But that might be a little close to home since he grew up Pentecostal. I don't know if his family was THOSE kind of Pentecostals, though.


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## Rich Koster (Sep 26, 2009)

How about asking him to be executor of your estate in case you are raptured? Yes, I know, another loaded question......


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

Rich Koster said:


> How about asking him to be executor of your estate in case you are raptured? Yes, I know, another loaded question......


Perfect!


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## Wanderer (Sep 26, 2009)

*Ask Him About Any Exceptions he has.*

I would ask him plainly if he has any exceptions to the WCF, larger and shorter catechisms.

And if any of the other elders in your church have any exceptions.

I wished I had asked those questions.

These are important questions that any body joining a PCA church should ask. After all, you will be sitting under his teaching, and you should have a idea of what he believes, and what is and is not taught in church....


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

Wanderer said:


> I would ask him plainly if he has any exceptions to the WCF, larger and shorter catechisms.
> 
> And if any of the other elders in your church have any exceptions.
> 
> ...


Hey now, that's a serious question! But I actually have already asked him that individually. He took one, on the word "recreation," I believe. As do many. He is currently the only elder since we are a very small church plant still going through the process of becoming a full, regular church and all that. Until then, I think we're under some sort of special presbyterian oversight until we grow and get some REs and deacons. I don't really know how the PCA does church plants.

-----Added 9/26/2009 at 02:24:11 EST-----

I meant "presbyterian" to be an adjective form of "presbytery" and quite forgot that it already refers to a style of church government. Maybe I should have said "presbyterial" oversight or just presbytery oversight...haha.


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## py3ak (Sep 26, 2009)

Ask him if it is appropriate to speak of God having a nature, and then follow it up with asking him to distinguish between the essence and the energies.


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## au5t1n (Sep 26, 2009)

py3ak said:


> Ask him if it is appropriate to speak of God having a nature, and then follow it up with asking him to distinguish between the essence and the energies.


Oooh, another good one. How will I ever ask all the ones I want to ask without seriously disrupting the structure of the class? haha


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## Manuel (Sep 27, 2009)

Ask him if he thinks that Moses and Elijah were wearing name tags at the transfiguration scene, because Peter knew who they were and he had never seen them.


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## larryjf (Sep 28, 2009)

Manuel said:


> Ask him if he thinks that Moses and Elijah were wearing name tags at the transfiguration scene, because Peter knew who they were and he had never seen them.



They didn't have name tags back then...the mount of transfiguration was a closed caption mountain.


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## Skyler (Sep 28, 2009)

It's easy to tell that one was Moses and one was Elijah. Moses had a rod, and Elijah had a mantle. 

But anyway, I vote for the "How about asking him to be executor of your estate in case you are raptured?" question. You're going to need to set up a poll with the best ones.


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## au5t1n (Sep 28, 2009)

He got a kick out of the rapture question and said, "That's just messed up!" Thanks for all the great suggestions. I join officially on Nov. 1.

"So...Aaron...what's your position on the whole triclav -"
"Don't you start with me!"


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## beej6 (Sep 29, 2009)

Ask him if he's infralapsarian or supralapsarian... then take the contrary position and argue away... in love of course.
Ask him to explain free will in 15 seconds or less without quoting any confession or catechism.


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## larryjf (Sep 29, 2009)

Ask him to explain the Trinity without using the word, "person"


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