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## jw (Dec 18, 2004)

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## Scot (Dec 18, 2004)

I don't have time for a long post right now (I'm leaving for the evening) so I'm going to paste a handout sheet that I sometimes give to clients that are interested in weight loss. I realize that you already know some of this stuff. Keep in mind that these are just general guidelines. Everyone's different. Maybe I'll post more later.

GENERAL GUIDELINES FOR WEIGHT LOSS

ï‚· Avoid white flour, white rice, processed foods, junk food, sugar, sweets, soft drinks, artificial sweeteners, processed meats, table salt.

ï‚· Consume more fresh (organic if possible) fruits, vegetables, legumes, whole grains, brown rice, cold-water fish (such as salmon), soy, nuts and seeds (in small amounts), filtered water, fresh fruit and vegetable juices.

ï‚· Use only extra virgin olive oil for cooking and stay away from hydrogenated or partly-hydrogenated oils in any form (e.g. margarine); use fatty foods such as avocados, olives, and nuts and seeds in moderation.

ï‚· Limit your intake of alcohol and caffeine.

ï‚· Never skip breakfast.

ï‚· Eat small meals throughout the day.

ï‚· Make lunch, not dinner, your main meal of the day.

ï‚· Chew your food at least 30 times before swallowing.

ï‚· Get regular exercise, such as running, swimming or walking. Increase your flexibility through Yoga or stretching exercises. Do strength training at least a couple times a week. 

ï‚· Do not go grocery shopping when hungry and do not keep unhealthy food in the house.

ï‚· Don´t give into your cravings immediately. Cravings are like waves, they tend to peak and then subside. If you can keep busy for a little while the craving will usually pass on its own.


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## ChristianasJourney (Dec 18, 2004)

STOP SNACKING!

Obviously it depends on how much you do snack. However, from what you wrote if you stop snacking that sounds like the quickest and easiest way to lose weight.

I helped my dad lose weight (I'm his main meal provider). I gave three meals a day of between 500-700 calories and about 400 cal for snacks. 

I'm convinced that you can lose weight eating junk food, and that even fast food places offer enough alternatives.

1. Don't supersize it.

2. Know what you're going to eat before you go in the restaurant, or look in the menu. 

3. Don't randomly hunt for food. Buy item that you know you can make a meal out of, and when you're hungry decide what you're going to eat, and go make it.



I know a number of people say to have several small meals a day. That works great if you're working out. However, if you're not working out I think it's easy to loose control over what you're eating.

If you have a problem with running than I'd do a fast walk for about half an hour a day. You can use that time to pray, meditate, and think.

Anyway, there's a lot of different things you can do, but this seemed to be the best for what you wrote about your current lifestyle. One of the things I think that does need to be taken into consideration is that what you do needs to work for you. It's not easy to recreate yourself in order to fit into a program.

Hope this helps.

[Edited on 19-12-2004 by ChristianasJourney]


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## alwaysreforming (Dec 18, 2004)

Joshua,
Could you tell us what you have at your disposal? For example, do you have ANY ex. equipment? If so, what? If not, how much could you afford to invest in equipment? Also, how much room do you have to exercise in/can that be changed? And... do you prefer to do something indoors, outdoors, or both?

With these answers, I might be able to lend you a little guidance...

Oh, yeah... and when would you prefer to do this exercise? Am, Pm, and for how long?


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## Ex Nihilo (Dec 18, 2004)

If you possibly have access to a swimming pool, I think that is the best type of workout. Just a little bit of swimming over the last semester has probably done more for me than a whole lot of jogging. (For the first time in my life, I have discernible biceps.)

If your knees are bad, this is especially good--virtually no impact on the knees (this is a concern for me, also). I think swimming burns more calories than just about anything else for the amount of time you spend, and it works almost all your muscles. And it's fun and addicting. When I'm at school (where we have two pools), I try to swim about 500 yards for a workout, which is not that long and takes only about 30 minutes (and that's with plenty of rest between laps). If I'm doing it regularly, I can drop a few pounds rather quickly even with that fairly low-key workout.

But then, you probably don't have access to a pool year-round, so maybe it's a nice idea, but not realistic.


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## Irishcat922 (Dec 18, 2004)

Chop wood for one hour and then go horseback riding for one hour.
It worked for J. Edwards.


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## Ex Nihilo (Dec 18, 2004)

*Whatever arobic exercise you decide on, you should do it first thing in the moring. If you do it later then your body will take directly from the energy )calories) that you have just eaten.*

That's probably true, but it can also lead to an upset stomach (for some people).


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## Scot (Dec 19, 2004)

Paul manata wrote:


> eat more portions, but smaller, during the day. This will allow your body to utilize the calories more effeciently instead of slamming them into your body in a couple-two-three big meals.





Here's three things that shouldn't be that difficult to do and won't cost you anything.

1. If it's white, DON'T EAT IT (white flour, sugar, salt). At least cut way down on them.
2. Drink more water (pure, not tapwater). Try to work up to half your body weight in ounces of water a day. If you're not used to drinking much water, start slowly (1 glass the first day, 2 glasses the second day, etc.) Do this between meals.
3. Upon rising, drink a cup of warm water with 1/2 a lemon squeezed into it. This will help detox your liver so it has more energy for fat burning and metabolism.

For exercise, I'd alternate weight lifting (even if it's body weight exercises) and aerobic. Mon, Wed, Fri, - strength training (body weight exercises if you don't have equipment) Tues & Thurs - aerobic.

The first thing that I have people do when they come to me for weight loss is put them on a colon cleanse but you probably don't want to hear about that!

I guess I should ask, are you concerned about losing the weight in a healthy way or don't you care as long as you get it off?


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## Ivan (Dec 19, 2004)

Josh,

There is excellent advice on this thread. Scot was very good in his post. Aerobic exercise is for the heart. It can be anything from swift walking to running, etc. I like walking. Better for my bones! Get in threes sessions per week and depending on your present physical condition, do it from 15 to 45 minutes each time.

Weight training is for more important than what we give it credit. With no bench and, I'm guessing, not much weight, you'll need to find an alternative. A bench, even a home-made one, and dumbbells up to, say, about forty pounds, will work nicely and give you all the benefit you are seeking. I'm not sure what the total cost would be, but it's not bad and the benefits are great!

If, at all possible, a good YMCA will offer all the equipment you will need and shouldn't cost an arm and an leg.


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## Simply Reformed (Dec 19, 2004)

A lot of good tips here so far.

Joshua,
I like the sound of 3 days weights, and 2 days aerobic that Scot suggested.
I don't know if you have dumbbells or barbells or both, but one of the problems you might run into is "staleness" in doing the same exercises over and over. Most people start out knowing 20 exercises, do 10 of them, then forget 4 of them, and just use the same 6 exercises for the rest of their lives. 
If you tell us what you have, perhaps we can list ALL the exercises you can do with what you have, then if you need further help, we can break them up into different "routines".

The most important thing is this: CONSISTENCY
I have a new rule in working out: If I can't sustain what I'm doing indefinitely, then I won't do it. If you can do only do 30 min. 3x/wk, that's a LOT better than doing 60min. now, and none later! You will only benefit in the long run from what you are still able to do in the long run, so just keep it fun, invigorating, avoid burnout/injury/sickness, and don't push yourself beyond what feels healthy and stimulating.

Even 20min/day for your weight exercises will be ok. The most important thing is building a LIFESTYLE, not a workout routine. Don't do anything you hate doing. Take every chance to be active. When a friend comes over, throw the football with him. Get on a bike sometime. Go swimming. Accept opportunities to do things active. Do a lot of movement, like this guy: 

Look at him go! Work it! Work it! Up, down! Up, down! (Gee, you think his legs would be bigger by now! Maybe he's doing too much aerobics.)


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## alwaysreforming (Dec 19, 2004)

*Log in mistake*

The above post by "Simply Reformed" was really by me, "AlwaysReforming"
Simply Reformed is my roommate, and I didn't realize that the computer defaulted my "log in" to his username. Sorry.


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## Scot (Dec 19, 2004)

Also when working out, do more compound exercises compared to isolation exercises. You want to work the biggest muscle groups. You won't see much result if you just do bicep, wrist curls and calve raises.

As a side note I want to mention a lady that came to see me about 6 weeks ago. She didn't come to me for weight loss specifically but for other problems (fatigue being one of them). Anyway, I had her get rid of the "white stuff", told her how to better combine her foods, put her on a cleanse to clean up her liver and colon and suggested a supplement to help suppport her adrenal glands.

She came back last Saturday and had lost 15 pounds. She didn't do any exercise, she just cleaned herself out and cleaned up her diet.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> I can PM you some workouts that I did while going through Navy SEAL training. This will build strength and you can also do your arobic stuff.



Paul, You went through Navy SEAL training? Wow! I'm impressed. Did you serve as a SEAL too? Just wondering, because I have a great deal of respect for all branches of the military, but especially SEALs, Green Berets, and other special forces services.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



Ah...sounds like a hard providence but God's ways of dealing with men are best. I have spent a night in jail myself (unjustly, in my view) which is just a little taste of a bad place to be. If you feel like it -- perhaps on a different thread -- I would be glad to hear the story of how God lead you to the place you are at now. Whether dramatic or not, it's also a blessing to hear how God works in the hearts of his saints. 

I have long been interested in counter-terrorism, but I'm probably better geared for the analytical side than the physical side. My night in jail and other such things would keep me from getting a security clearance, however. Ah, well!


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## fredtgreco (Dec 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> ...



Isn't it unbelievable that God Providentially preserves us and brings us to Himself? I'm thankful for you and His work in your life.


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## alwaysreforming (Dec 19, 2004)

Dan (Scot),
Not to hijack this thread, but what type of "colon cleanse" do you recommend? What other type of "cleansing" is necessary. I don't have as much energy as most people seem to, so I was wondering if I might have some "internal stuff" holding me back.


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## SmokingFlax (Dec 19, 2004)

Yup...pushups and chinups are like some of the best workouts ever -and they don't cost anything. A true cave-man work out.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 19, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Paul manata_
> Fred and Andrew,
> 
> Yes, God needed to wake me up. I thought I was the boss and everything would always go my way. God let me have a life where I was extremely popular and everyone thought that I was the "man." God allowed me to excell all the way until SEAL training (so much that I broke a pushup record while in boot camp with 3004 consecutive pushups ). When he allowed me to get to the place I thought was the highest point he then brought me down... hard. But he wasn't through since I was very
> ...



Please do. I'd very much like to hear more.


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## Scot (Dec 19, 2004)

fredgreco wrote


> Isn't it unbelievable that God Providentially preserves us and brings us to Himself?



Yes!

Christopher,

You have a U2U (so we don't "hijack" the thread).


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## FrozenChosen (Dec 20, 2004)

Joshua,

If you can spare a couple hours a week, I would suggest finding some form of martial arts. Unlike running or weight lifting, MA requires the use of your whole body. Instead of making your schedule worse by trying to run to work out your legs, lifting weights for your arms, you could find a martial art school that would work all that out in half the time. Aside from losing weight, you increase your flexibility, stamina, self-control, and even sometimes your pain threshhold. Depending on the level of sparring in martial arts, you may be able to defend yourself better should you ever (unfortunately) have to use your skills.

Perhaps you can find an adults class that meets once a week, or on weekends.

As for results, after a month of training in Jeet Kune Do, my mom has noticed that I (naturally skinny) have begun to fill out. I'm sure the opposite would work too. Except my problem right now is that I'm not heavy enough for some techniques, obviously something I need to work on.

I know this is a pretty unorthodox idea of approaching fitness, but I really feel that it is working for me, even in a lot of unexpected ways.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

I took martial arts for ten years and I still have only 4% body fat. I agree with what Paul said about aerobics in the mornings. I have always said taht burns the fat reserves immediately. People just thought I was nuts.


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## Scot (Dec 20, 2004)

> after a month of training in Jeet Kune Do, my mom has noticed that I (naturally skinny) have begun to fill out.



Yeah, JKD. Bruce Lee, now that's a picture of health. That's also a good practical fighting system to study. I also like grappling/jiu jitsu. You can go all out practicing grappling and joint locks without hurting your partner (usually). It's harder to do that with striking.

Anyone watch mixed martial arts matches like the UFC or Pride Fighting?


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## JohnV (Dec 20, 2004)

I heard the other night from the "Intelligence for Life" guy that just drinking cold water is a real calorie consumer. It not only facilitates better difestion and fuel use in the body, but the coldness of the water also helps, as the body uses up more calories that way to warm up the body after drinking.

So while you follow all this good advice, just drink 8 litres of cold water per day. A litre is about one US gallon, isn't it? NO! NO!, its about 1 US quart. Don't over do it.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*

I used to know about DaveDraper in my pseudo-body building days. That is a name that I havent thought of in a few years


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*

I would always do Chest and Back workouts on the same day

Bench: 3X10 @75% (warm up to it)
FlatBench Flys (3X8-10)

Chin ups (as many as you can; several sets)
any type of Row exercise will beef up your back
Lat Pull downs will shape your back

End the workout doing as many pushups as possible.


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## Ivan (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*



> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> I used to know about DaveDraper in my pseudo-body building days. That is a name that I havent thought of in a few years



I actually know the man and have visited him and his wife, Laree, in Santa Cruz, CA, about four years ago. They took be to church, Santa Cruz Bible Church, and then took me out to eat! They are a wonderful Christian couple.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*

I used to know all the names of the serious bodybuilders.

I had the Annuld Swarzz (however you spell his last name) Bodybuilding Encyclopedia. However, my glory days in weight lifting are over. Coming to college, I have lost 25 lbs of muscle in four yearrs. I went from 165 to 140.


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*

Josh,
Everything these people are saying is very good advice, but they lack one thing: if you are to be seriously committed to working out you must by a Rocky Soundtrack, otherwise your workout is a pale existence of what it can be. Back in the day I always had Rocky IV or Conan the Barbarian (if they would just delete the girly scenes it would be a great show) on whilst or after I worked out. You also need to get a Conan the Barbarian soundtrack. That is one of the few instances where the soundtrack is better than they movie.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*



> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> Josh,
> Everything these people are saying is very good advice, but they lack one thing: if you are to be seriously committed to working out you must by a Rocky Soundtrack, otherwise your workout is a pale existence of what it can be. Back in the day I always had Rocky IV or Conan the Barbarian (if they would just delete the girly scenes it would be a great show) on whilst or after I worked out. You also need to get a Conan the Barbarian soundtrack. That is one of the few instances where the soundtrack is better than they movie.



As a former runner, I can definitely attest to the value of the "Eye of the Tiger." However, the Vangelis "Chariots of Fire" soundtrack is my all-time favorite inspirational workout tune.


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## tdowns (Dec 20, 2004)

*Simple and short--NASA BASED*

Unless I missed it, I haven't seen anybody mention some of the new studies that show approx. 90% of any gain we get from working out comes from the first set, so sets 2,3,4 etc, really don't give you much.

Another new finding, our body takes up to a week to recover, if we break down the muscle completley when working out.

Good news about these findings, as far as muscle goes, we can narrow our workouts down to once a week for about twenty minutes for muscle growth. Obviously, cardio, fat burning is 4-7 times a week to be affective.

This is based on NASA studies for best, most efficient muscle building, a new book is out on it, but it escapes me right now. My wife has it, I'll post tonight. It goes into the details, but I've been doing it for years based on a article my dad read about astronauts training.

I tend to like the feeling of a muscle work-out, so I do this twice a week(not quite total muscle failure), but once is effective(with total muscle failure), believe it or not. I hate the waste of time of going to gym, so I do all at home.
I've been everywhere from a gymrat(1-2 hours 6 days a week, to trying to replicate that at home, to this which I've done for five years. I'm 38.

Key premises:

* each set do very slow, 8-10 up, 8-10 seconds down, never rest, no lock-out, always moving. Try this with Push-ups, sit-ups, pull-ups, dips,(by the way those four are a great place to start) and you'll find it will be a while before you need weights.

*Doing above, each set should last at least 64 seconds, longer is better, never less, some chemical is released at this point. Don't stop till you can't possibly do another, then hold the weight--goal, .....total failure. 
One set only. (I'll do two sets for biceps, one wide grip, one close grip, different parts of bi. And you might do two for chest, upper chest (incline) etc.)

Each set should take 64 to 84 seconds, shake it out for about 30 seconds, hit the next set. New book says no rest, but I like a little.

If you do this, you need a week to recover, so this excercise can be done once a week, the rest of the week just do your cardio work.

My workout--times include rest averaged out.
*Dips(on my swimming pool steps) Chairs, etc work. 2 min
*Pull-ups -- on an old bar hanging from my house--trees work. 2 min
*Curls with dumbells supersetted with tricep extentions overhead. 3 min
*Curl bar overhead tricep extentions supersetted with curls. 3 min.
*Military press with same curl bar and weight supersetted with shrugs. 3min
*Push-ups, hands close together, supersetted with hands apart. 3 min
*Push-ups, feet raised, superset with face hitting carpet from fatigue. 3min
*Sit-ups--seperate, daily when I wake up.

This work-out is a tough 20 minutes, but pick the day to do it, and only have to do it once a week. If you want it a bit easier, split the body groups in half so back biceps one day, chest shoulder tri stuff another, so each group of muscles gets the full week but the workout is spread out.

Final principle-- keeping up on the longer time consuming workouts is tough, knowing this will only take 20 minutes out of your life each week makes it much easier to "Just do It!"

P.S. I agree, Rocky music always a major motivator to reaching total failure on each set. 

Just another option, it really does work, I used to do the ladder stuff,(warm-up, increasing weight, sometimes 4-6 sets of one excercise, 3-4 excercises per body part...no time for that anymore!) I weighed 170 and benched 300lbs once. While this system won't do that, once a year I go to the gym with my father and law, and the first time I went was five years (at least) out of gym, only above work-out. I still put up 225 on bench (didn't go higher, body not adjusted to that.) Now once a year I test strength there, only stronger. It's doing the push-ups etc. slow and to failure that kept my strength.

WHO NEEDS A GYM?

For the cardio I like multi-tasking--fun while staying in shape, so I mnt. bike, surf, swim, trail run while walking the dog.


Hope this helps, I'll post book name tonight.

TDREVOLVER


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## FrozenChosen (Dec 20, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> I took martial arts for ten years and I still have only 4% body fat. I agree with what Paul said about aerobics in the mornings. I have always said that burns the fat reserves immediately. People just thought I was nuts.



What martial arts did you take?


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## FrozenChosen (Dec 20, 2004)

*A Complete Distraction From the Original Thread*



> _Originally posted by VirginiaHuguenot_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> ...



*hums tune*
*puts on running shoes without even thinking about it*


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

I took Tae-Kwon-Do for ten years, American Kickboxing for one year, and Okinawan Karate for one year.


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## SmokingFlax (Dec 20, 2004)

Trevor,

...what, no leg work? 

I hadn't heard about this NASA stuff before -though it sounds a little bit like the Nautilus program. Who is the author?

Also, I noticed that the older I get the quicker my muscles respond to working out -compared to when I was in my teens and 20's. My work out routine was pretty much the pyramid scheme that I learned from playing H.S. football.

I hear you though...I used to regularly spend 4-5 days at the gym when I was younger but now I don't seem to have as much time as these 20 year old whippersnappers. That's a shame because it's a real good feeling just getting (your) aggressions out in the gym, etc. Plus the older you get the slower your metabolism runs -I could use several months of hard work-outs.

Jacob,

What belts did you earn?


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## tdowns (Dec 20, 2004)

*Power of Ten*

Legs, I always hated legs. I pretty much count my bike and jog time as a leg work out. I admit I neglect those though. 

The book is "Power of Ten -- The once a week slow motion fitness revolution" by Adam Zickerman.

Although it promotes once a week, I prefer the twice a week option because I too enjoy the work-out. It's a good informational and funny book. I don't know about revolutionary, because I heard about this concept 5-8 years ago. But he goes into diet and lifestyle as well as work out routines.
www.power-of-10.com

"No Pain No Gain!!!"

TD


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## RamistThomist (Dec 20, 2004)

I got to first degree black belt in Tae-Kwon-Do. Some probably, perhaps with good reason, would not recognize it because I started at an early age and reached black belt at an early age. I did American Kickboxing for athletic reasons. I did Okinawan karate at school for class credit...I got purple belt. That was an interesting class.


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## SmokingFlax (Dec 21, 2004)

What do y'all think of aikido?


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## SmokingFlax (Dec 21, 2004)

Yup. Leg workouts can be BRUTAL...and make you walk like Fred Sanford for a couple weeks if you don't ease into them just right. But I really like the idea of working the biggest muscles to burn the most calories, etc. Even so, my legs get pretty sore just from jogging too.

I always admired the martial arts but never got into it. Bruce Lee was pretty amazing.


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