# John Newton



## baron (Jul 25, 2010)

Came across this statement. The judicious Andrew Fuller, writing on this subject to Mr. Newton in 1802, well observes, 'It is amazing to think how much we are influenced, even in our judgment of right and wrong, by general opinion, espicially by the opinion and example of religious men.'

This was regarding the slave trade and seeing how both George Whitefield and the Countess of Huntingdon were involved in the same evil. They held and purchased slaves.

Also read that John Newton purchased lottery ticket which if he won he would use to help further the Gospel. Amazing christians are still using this excuse to by lottery tickets.


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## earl40 (Jul 25, 2010)

Have I heard correctly that Newton thought he was the messiah at the end of his life?


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## baron (Jul 25, 2010)

earl40 said:


> Have I heard correctly that Newton thought he was the messiah at the end of his life?



I would hope not but I'm only on page 74 of 322 pages. So I will have to pick up my pace on reading.


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## LeeD (Jul 25, 2010)

earl40 said:


> Have I heard correctly that Newton thought he was the messiah at the end of his life?


 I have never heard that one and would be very surprised if that were true.


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## baron (Jul 26, 2010)

I read some where that Newton did not care for Handel's Messiah and preached a number of sermons on it.


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## jjraby (Jul 26, 2010)

I heard that Newton had his Whopper with cheese, bacon, and mayo only. He preached on several occasions, that, not having it your way was a punishable offence in Calvin's Geneva.


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## Ivan (Jul 26, 2010)

Why is this thread in the Daily Devotional Forum?


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## py3ak (Jul 26, 2010)

baron said:


> I read some where that Newton did not care for Handel's Messiah and preached a number of sermons on it.


 
Newton preached on the texts that form the libretto for the oratorio. There is an article about it here.

This is about the end of Newton's life:



> He continued to preach till the last year of his life, although he was too blind to see his text, and the failure of his faculties grew painful. In 1806, when Cecil entreated him to give up preaching, He replied, 'I cannot stop. What! shall the old African blasphemer stop while he call speak? ' His last sermon, during which he had to be reminded of his subject, was for the sufferers from Trafalgar (1806). He died on 21 December 1807, and was buried by the side of his wife in St. Mary Woolnoth.



It doesn't sound like he had much time for sinful delusions.

Earl, let me encourage you to be careful what you repeat. While I appreciate that you were asking, not asserting, it is easy for a careless enemy of the truth to seize on a post like yours and use it for defamation. Such charges should only be received on solid evidence, from multiple credible witnesses, and if that standard of evidence is not met, should not be granted any kind of currency.


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## earl40 (Jul 26, 2010)

py3ak said:


> baron said:
> 
> 
> > I read some where that Newton did not care for Handel's Messiah and preached a number of sermons on it.
> ...


 
I hear you.  OK so I won't say where I heard it. LOL

It was Horatio Spafford I was thinking about. Sorry Pastor Newton.


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## py3ak (Jul 26, 2010)

earl40 said:


> It was Horatio Spafford I was thinking about. Sorry Pastor Newton.


 
I have heard that also about Mr. Spafford; but we should apply the same standard of evidence to him as to John Newton, don't you think? Is there any documentation of this?


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## earl40 (Jul 26, 2010)

py3ak said:


> earl40 said:
> 
> 
> > It was Horatio Spafford I was thinking about. Sorry Pastor Newton.
> ...



The below sums it up well. Though the more I read of what the family started I does me make weary of what they believed.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f51/what-your-favorite-hymn-54631/index2.html

Before you tell your pastor, realize that the Spafford story is filled with contradictions and differences among the sources. Yes, my first quote was your Wiki article which praised his work in establishing the American Colony. Sources from American Colony tend to be hagiographic regarding Spafford as their founder. Other stories have circulated since his death with the false Messiah claim. I honestly don't know what "unbiased" historians make of the contradictions. However, it seemed likely to me that there is truth to the idea that he ended up a little daffy.

Actually, with respect to the story, I don't mind the negative ending. He bore witness to the truth of God's providence and provision in the midst of unspeakable tragedy. That, in time, even Spafford suffered personal mental problems does not take away from the truth of his hymn; God is greater than our obedience, weakness, or reactions to pain.

I analogize it to the final suffering of people dying. Sometimes, saints pass into eternity in an almost poetic way. Other times, the clear witness of their faith is mingled with the seeming contradictory elements of "the dementia" talking. When you witness a person with Alzheimer's telling you that her husband is angry at her for not doing the dishes when he passed away 10 years ago and she lives in skilled nursing where she has no dishes to "do," you realize that we have this treasure in clay vessels. Typically, however, the believers are greatly comforted by being reminded of what they truly believe about God and his provision in the midst of it.

If Mr. Spafford became demented at the end it is sad, but does not efface the truth of his great hymn proclaiming God's sufficiency in the midst of suffering. 

Rensselaer County, NY GenWeb site - Biographies - Horatio Spafford


PS. I like your new avatar! Was that you in the old one?.....I hope not.


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## py3ak (Jul 26, 2010)

Why would I tell my pastor? I wish that the sources you linked would have provided some documentation - were there interviews with him, was he admitted to a mental hospital, did he write any press releases or are his journals extant? 

No, the current avatar is a somewhat stylized mug shot of me; the old one was more of a psychological profile picture.


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## Steve Curtis (Jul 26, 2010)

py3ak said:


> Why would I tell my pastor?


 
That wasn't written from Earl to you - it was part of the quote from the thread he referenced


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## baron (Jul 27, 2010)

Ivan said:


> Why is this thread in the Daily Devotional Forum?



Due to the fact that I was hurrying and most likley put thread in wrong place.

Sorry.


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