# Looking for quotes on defending Calvinism



## fralo4truth (Aug 21, 2012)

Hi all,

I'm looking for quotes in defense of Calvinism in which the authors demonstrate that the only way to refute Calvinism is by making a caricature of it. I'm arguing with the anti-means Hardshells who do this a lot.

Check this caricature sampling of theirs:

The Calvinists are Pharisees
•	The “work” of the Calvinist is “believing” the gospel message. We refer to this as “Gospel Regeneration” and it can be found on every religious TV station.
•	Predestination includes hearing and believing (doing something) for salvation.
•	All of the elect will hear and believe to get eternally saved.
•	Enabling grace will then be provided to persevere or stay saved until death. Some refer to this as “Lordship Salvation” meaning that Jesus cannot be your Savior without being your Lord. The one is proof of the other.
•	Both the Pharisees and the Calvinists are “absoluters” in that they teach that all things are absolutely predestinated. Ask one to explain Romans 8:28.
•	The Pharisees believed in “election” of the Jews. They would all go to Abraham’s Bosom by keeping the law.
•	The Calvinist system is: Grace plus Works for Salvation and Grace plus Works to Persevere to the end.
Elder Conrad Jarrell, Grace vs. Calvinism)


If you know of anything along these lines, I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks.


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## JoannaV (Aug 21, 2012)

I'm sorry for going off-topic, but what is their interpretation of Romans 8:28?


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## rookie (Aug 22, 2012)

JoannaV said:


> I'm sorry for going off-topic, but what is their interpretation of Romans 8:28?



Or John 6, Romans 9, Saul/Paul's conversion, Ephesians 1:4...and the list goes on and on and on, and quite frankly, the entire scripture in context....to believe the Arminian standpoind, I now see they have to do scriptural gymnastics to make it say what they want it to say...


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## fralo4truth (Aug 22, 2012)

JoannaV said:


> I'm sorry for going off-topic, but what is their interpretation of Romans 8:28?



Joanna,

I once belonged to the Hardshells so I know them quite well. Around the turn of the 20th century they split into two groups called the Absoluters and the Conditionalists. The former held to the old confessional view that all things had been predestinated, while the other did not. The sample quotation above comes from the Conditionalist faction which occupies the bulk of the order. Most of them see the connection of Romans 8:28 with absolute predestination so are forced to conclude that only _some_ things are predestinated. As support, they refer to those scriptural passages in which _all_ is sometimes used in a limited sense, such as all without distinction. Many of them limit these "all things" that are predestinated to being only those things listed in the golden chain mentioned in v. 29.

They do not understand the concept of secondary causation. Hence, they feel absolutism would make God be the author of sin.


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## LeeD (Aug 22, 2012)

To me, Calvinism means the placing of the eternal God at the head of all things. – CH Spurgeon

I am not a Calvinist by choice, but because I cannot help it. – CH Spurgeon

I believe nothing merely because Calvin taught it, but because I have found his teaching in the Word of God. – CH Spurgeon


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## arapahoepark (Aug 22, 2012)

DOCTRINES OF GRACE ? CATEGORIZED SCRIPTURE LIST
For the Scripture ^, and RC Sproul's Reformed Theology would be helpful as well!


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