# Affording Seminary



## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 14, 2017)

So how can one afford to live while in seminary and being the provider of the house? Assuming that the person doesn't have a few hundred thousand to live on for a few years.

Thanks!

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## Scott Bushey (Dec 15, 2017)

I would assume starting with getting oneself under care of their local denomination or attend a free seminary.

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## BG (Dec 15, 2017)

Wish I could quote a Bible verse for you but I’m drawing a blank. I wonder why the Bible does not say anything about a business called Seminary?

Reactions: Funny 2


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 15, 2017)

Matt 10:5-8 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.

This is the motto of the seminary where I attend...

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 15, 2017)

Scott Bushey said:


> Matt 10:5-8 5 These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. drive out demons. Freely you have received; freely give.
> 
> This is the motto of the seminary where I attend...


What seminary is s that?


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 15, 2017)

http://www.tnars.net/

Accepted by PCA and OPC

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## iainduguid (Dec 15, 2017)

I turned down a full ride scholarship (plus stipend) at New College Edinburgh to study at Westminster Theological Seminary, paying full tuition. I've never for a moment regretted that decision. The first two years my wife worked full time to support me, then when we had our first child I worked full time and studied full time to enable her to be at home with our son. It wasn't easy, but I'm very glad I did it. Most people only get one shot at a theological education, so you want to choose the very best. Having said that, of course, different people have different gifts, callings and life situations, so I'm grateful for the wide variety of educational experiences available here in the US. Not everyone can or should study at WTS. But I wouldn't advise choosing a seminary simply, or even primarily, on the basis of cost. Get good counsel from your elders and pastor and trust God to provide the resources as you seek to make wise decisions.

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## psycheives (Dec 15, 2017)

If you believe you are called to be a minister, go to the best seminary and think critically about what they teach. Don't just suck it all in as truth. I agree with Iain - you can make it work when u need to. Seminaries offer scholarships and churches sponsor students. If needed, student loans are also available and worth it. I did part scholarship, part loans. If u are called to be a minister, consider Puritan Reformed Theological Seminary PRTS (Joel Beeke) or Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary GPTS (Joey Pipa). If u consider WTS, make sure u know the distinctives (and criticisms) of each teacher ahead of time. No seminary is perfect but its sad when one goes in blind and comes to disagree with what they are being taught to such a degree that they end up transferring to another seminary.

If you aren't going to be a minister, I do not recommend seminary. You can learn more better at home. Study the Bible, confessions, systematic theologies (Calvin, Turretin, Bavinck, Berkhof, Hoeksema), and read uniquely PROTESTANT church history (not Rome/Anglican history). Do this ultra diligently for 4 years and you'll be better equipped than most seminary students. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 15, 2017)

Thank you. I think the real matter is how to support a wife and two children. How could one pay rent, insurance, food, car, etc?


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 15, 2017)

Ryan,
I want to tell u, "what is not possible w/ man is possible w/ God" but that doesn't really address the practicality and wisdom one should use when considering their responsibilities and neglect. What is the primary? School or family? This is why I am suggesting a free seminary, online, work at your own pace. This is how I am doing it. One wonders about one's wife being the bread winner....Is that biblical (ever)?

If God wants u in ministry, you will be in ministry and not based on the school u went to; however, if that is your desire, u do need school.

My dumb 2 cents worth.

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## fredtgreco (Dec 15, 2017)

I have said this many times before, but I will say it again. The man can work a job while he studies. I worked three while I was in seminary and graduated in three years. Now you may not be able to do that, but you could graduate in four. Your wife could earn some money at home. It can be done. You just have to work hard, and not worry if you don't get all A's.

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## kodos (Dec 15, 2017)

Pastor Greco has some good advice. First, acknowledge God's sovereignty. Do not get frustrated if you cannot get to Seminary right now. Perhaps, if you keep it in prayer and He has placed this desire to serve the kingdom (in this way) He will surely open the door for you and you can do some soul searching as to whether you will have to make painful decisions in order to pursue a calling to ministry.

There are things you can do to make this work. First, make sure that your session and Presbytery are supportive. If they are, it is amazing to see the kinds of resources that might be available for you. Either through scholarships or denominational discounts. For instance, being under care of the Presbytery (and going to the denominational seminary), my tuition is only 1/3 what it would be normally. Is it still a lot of money? Yes. But with that discount some congregations might be inclined to cover much of the rest of the cost of tuition for you.

Second, do not think you have to go fulltime. I only take 3 classes a quarter instead of 5 (which would be a full load). That means that it will take me about 5 years to get through the program. But that's all I can do right now being a husband, father to four, a ruling elder, occasional preaching, and a fulltime business owner.

Third, there are more hours in the day than you realize. Many, like Pastor Greco, have done the three-year program while working fulltime. His advice about grades is a good one too. So far, I have had all A's. But the gulf in time spent between earning a B and an A is tremendous. I might have to let my "standards" drop a bit in the future and not worry about getting As in every single class. But for now, I can manage it.

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## ValleyofVision (Dec 15, 2017)

fredtgreco said:


> I have said this many times before, but I will say it again. The man can work a job while he studies. I worked three while I was in seminary and graduated in three years. Now you may not be able to do that, but you could graduate in four. Your wife could earn some money at home. It can be done. You just have to work hard, and not worry if you don't get all A's.



Amen. My cousin did the same thing, but it took him four years. Was it hard? Yes. I remember Him saying at times how hard and tough it was but He knew it was exactly where the Lord wanted him. He did this with three children at home and a wife who did in home babysitting/nannying. He also worked nights.


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## TylerRay (Dec 15, 2017)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> So how can one afford to live while in seminary and being the provider of the house? Assuming that the person doesn't have a few hundred thousand to live on for a few years.
> 
> Thanks!


Ryan,
The fact that you have framed the questions in general/hypothetical terms (how can one...) seriously limits the kind of helpful answers that could be given. Different individuals have different resources available to them. 

For my own part, I'm exploring ways to use my land (really the only capital I have) in order to generate income with minimal personal involvement on my part; but that's an option that isn't available to people who don't have land. Also, my denominational seminary waves tuition for Free Church students.

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## zsmcd (Dec 15, 2017)

My plan: Get good at a trade so as to be able to care for my family. Then start taking 2-3 classes at a time to slowly chip away at the degree. 2-3 classes at a place like GPTS or PRTS is really not too bad for someone making a decent paycheck. Plus, with the support of your church and the seminary each paying 1/3 of tuition the costs really are not too bad. Or, as others have mentioned, just check with your presbytery to see if they will accept TNARS.

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## Parakaleo (Dec 15, 2017)

I will add that you can surprise yourself in how much you can economize. I worked nearly full-time through six years of seminary, going from two children to five by the time I graduated. Our "standard of living" seemed to drop each year and we made drastic cuts in many areas. Still, we had everything we actually needed and I think we are far happier living modestly. There really is something to this whole minimalism movement.

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## Ask Mr. Religion (Dec 15, 2017)

Being a provider requires you to consider that the role of provider does not exclude the temporary contribution of others, such as your family, local church, the scholarships available by a seminary, assisted student living accommodations, other means of tuition assistance, etc.

The key to your OP is having a detailed plan. Lay out all expenses for seminary (books, tuition, fees, etc.) and your home life (rent, food, utilities, credit card debt, pregnancies, medical insurances and expenses, life insurances, automobile upkeep, savings for emergencies, walking around money, etc.). Be painfully detailed: what will it cost in real money (cash you will have to outlay from a checking account).

Once you have this before you, the issues and opportunities will become more clear. This may obviate the need for perhaps taking less than a full course load, such that you can work part-time job(*s*) to afford the endeavor. It may also indicate that the seminary choice in question is, well, out of the question. While the "_the Lord called you and He will provide_" is operative, the _means_ for the same are part and parcel of your wise _stewardship_.

If you are going to seminary, one assumes you have been called to the _ministry of reconciliation_, and that call validated by your church. Seek their wise counsel and any assistance they may offer. It may well be that perhaps another means of achieving the denominational training you need is possible. For example, TNARS has been suggested above, or PRBS if I may. Then again, perhaps your ultimate goal is to teach in academia, hence, dealing with accredited and unaccredited education is paramount for academia.

If you are unable to answer the question definitively, "_What must I spend throughout my seminary education, including living expenses, versus what do I know I will have to spend?_", then your seminary endeavor is lacking careful examination.

I will lift up prayers that it be the will of God to share in His abundance with you.

Reactions: Like 1 | Informative 1


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## RamistThomist (Dec 15, 2017)

If you want to do academic work, you almost have to go to an accredited seminary. That means big money. So you have to ask yourself, "How will I repay these loans on a teaching assistant's salary in a low-demand job market?"

If you are seeking pastoral/church work, then you need to talk with your session.

While I normally categorically reject anything James KA Smith says, this blog series on grad schools is good. This is really relevant if you pursue academic work, not so much on church work.
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-think.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_07.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_08.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school-money.html
http://forsclavigera.blogspot.com/2010/09/so-you-want-to-go-to-grad-school_10.html


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## ArminianOnceWas (Dec 15, 2017)

Scott Bushey said:


> http://www.tnars.net/
> 
> Accepted by PCA and OPC



What does accepted by PCA and OPC mean? Is there any official denominational or presbytery statement on this? Or do you mean that *some* candidates in *some* presbyteries have been received into ordination? As you know, one instance of a candidate with credentials from TNARS being received by one presbytery is hardly a blanket denominational statement of the institution.


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## ArminianOnceWas (Dec 15, 2017)

It's difficult to give a blanket answer because every situation is unique.

I know men who have supported a family and attended seminary full time or near full time but I don't know how without taking on a lot of debt which I don't think is ideal unless you have an inheritance coming at some point in the future.

I see you are in the PCA so I expect you would be under care there. I would suggest GPTS which is cheaper and endorsed by PCA. BTW I think GPTS is tuition-free if your church or presbytery supports them. You can remain where you are and take some online classes there. Also, LAMP Seminary has a quasi-affiliation with PCA and is much less expensive. Perhaps there is a branch near you.

Now that I check and see you are in Florida, depending on where exactly you are, the good news is that you are in a strong Reformed part of the country which may broaden your options.

This is repetitive and I don't know your details but I'd say the best solution is where you retain your current employment and take classes online and then figure out residency later. Cut spending as much as possible. It's likely going to be a long process that will demand a lot from your family and marriage. Start by taking one or two classes, work your way to three or four at a time.

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## Scott Bushey (Dec 16, 2017)

ArminianOnceWas said:


> Or do you mean that *some* candidates in *some* presbyteries have been received into ordination? A



Yes, thats what I meant...


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## Polanus1561 (Dec 18, 2017)

Nothing has been said so far about OP speaking to his session..


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## RamistThomist (Dec 18, 2017)

John Yap said:


> Nothing has been said so far about OP speaking to his session..



I did. Four lines down.
https://puritanboard.com/threads/affording-seminary.94504/#post-1153273


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 18, 2017)

As well, in post 2....


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 18, 2017)

My pastor would agree that it is the husband's job to still provide through seminary. I'm just having a hard time even seeing how this is financially possible. If I were given a check for $200,000, then that would be a different story.

It's sad that we face these troubles today.


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## Scott Bushey (Dec 18, 2017)

Do u see the problem here?

Reactions: Amen 1


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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 18, 2017)

Scott Bushey said:


> Do u see the problem here?


Yes. It would be nice if pastors were raised up by the elders of their church, for free. Like a five year practical internship along with theological studies.


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## Parakaleo (Dec 18, 2017)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> If I were given a check for $200,000, then that would be a different story.



Dear Ryan, I might refer you back to my earlier comment above (#16). Have you given much thought to what you can do without? I'm telling you brother, gird up the loins of your mind for lean times ahead.


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## fredtgreco (Dec 19, 2017)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> My pastor would agree that it is the husband's job to still provide through seminary. I'm just having a hard time even seeing how this is financially possible. If I were given a check for $200,000, then that would be a different story.
> 
> It's sad that we face these troubles today.


Brother,
If you need a check for $200,000 to go to seminary the answer is obvious: don't go to seminary. You're not ready to be in the ministry, which is (frankly) for virtually every pastor a struggle with finances. I gave up a career as an attorney, which made retirement impossible and college tuition challenging (to say the least). But I would not trade it back any day!

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## SolaScriptura (Dec 19, 2017)

Ryan - as others have noted, it is possible to do. For example, I did seminary in 4 years. That was with me also taking a class each summer for a couple years. This made my class load during the semesters lighter so that it wasn't so hard to fit into a work schedule. (By the end of my 2nd year I was also a chaplain candidate... working between semesters I brought in about 35k per year... that helped tremendously!) During the semesters I worked a security job - a GREAT job for students because it was my study time! If you need insurance, consider UPS - a great part-time job that pays decently, gives vacation time, and provides benefits. Another option would be to consider the chaplaincy. Joining the Reserves or Guard as a chaplain candidate will give you a monthly income and provide excellent insurance for pennies on the dollar for what most civilian plans cost. Anyway, it can be made to work. If that mountain seems too big, then perhaps for you it is.

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## Ryan&Amber2013 (Dec 19, 2017)

Yeah. It just doesn't seem like there's an enjoyable way to do it. It is a struggle either way. Then another big factor is missing out on precious time with the family.


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## JimmyH (Dec 19, 2017)

I can tell you from first hand knowledge, that while there are some pastors who have large congregations, and are well paid, there are others who have small congregations and occasionally miss pay checks, whose pensions go unfunded because the money just isn't there. Definitely a labor of love and I've been humbled seeing the selfless dedication I've observed in some pastors.

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## fredtgreco (Dec 19, 2017)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> Yeah. It just doesn't seem like there's an enjoyable way to do it. It is a struggle either way. Then another big factor is missing out on precious time with the family.


Again, not to beat a dead horse, but get used to it. The ministry constantly takes time away from family. If you and your family are not ready for that, then don't get in. I have not seen my extended family over the Christmas holidays in more than a decade because of commitments at church.

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## Reformed Roman (Dec 19, 2017)

I am currently in a Reformed Baptist program called the "Timothy Pastoral Apprenticeship Program". Churches have Pastors volunteer their time to teach seminary classes. Tuition is free as well. They teach the languages and teach in a classroom like setting. Along with the education there is a practical element as well. The churches that have students in the program normally support their students with anywhere from $5,000 to $20,000 a year while they are in the program. This is allowing me to work part time to complete the program. I'm a "student Pastor" at my local church which essentially means I'm looked at as an aspiring Pastor and I play a similar role to a part time associate Pastor but with less expectations. I've been at all of our elder meeting, I preach once a month, and I actively participate in the body and in ministry. 0 debt with the program. In fact, my church pays for my books which is helping me build a library.

In my opinion this is a far superior model to seminary. It is not accredited but there are so many smaller country churches that cannot afford to pay seminary students.

Who is going to be able to afford your $80,000 salary you will need whenever your sky high in seminary debt? Surely not a small country church. This means you will have to work full time on the side and those 40 to 60 people won't get the care they need.

Saying that you must attend the best possible seminary to follow God's call on your life is absurd. And saying you need to wait because God hasn't provided $200,000 is absurd as well.

Seminary is great for a lot of people but not practical for many. I know I'm in the minority here in the PB on this one, but I recommend praying hard, looking into many alternatives, working closely with your church and looking for your best option. Don't just assume your own calling in your life, make sure your church leadership fully affirms that calling. If you have full support behind you, your family is behind you, and you truly feel God is calling you to ministry, at that point I would work with leadership and very carefully pray over all your options.

It may very well be that a student loan and hard work will carry you through these next few years, but you may also find a cheaper or free seminary option may be a great option as well. Just as some have had terrific experiences with no regrets on their choices I have no regrets with mine. I will be prepared to Pastor and I will have no debt and will be able to Pastor on a low salary due to my low debt load to help smaller Churches.

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## Edward (Dec 19, 2017)

What are your earnings expectations for the first 5 years after seminary?


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## Reformed Roman (Dec 19, 2017)

Ryan&Amber2013 said:


> Yeah. It just doesn't seem like there's an enjoyable way to do it. It is a struggle either way. Then another big factor is missing out on precious time with the family.



You do well to think about your family in this. Too many ministers neglect their children or their wife for ministry. But there will be some busy seasons. May have to really get creative with date nights and also get creative to get involved in the lives of your children in such a busy season, it won't be easy


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## Polanus1561 (Dec 20, 2017)

Whitefield seems pretty affordable


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## BG (Dec 20, 2017)

The PCA has the lamp program


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