# Did God force incest..?



## black_rose (Dec 18, 2011)

We are all well aware that Adam and Eve were the first man and woman.. We are all also aware that Cain, after murdering his brother, was marked and went to another city and married a woman from there... So, basically, where did this other woman come from..?

Later in God's Word, we find that incest is obviously a sin. So, unless other people were created elsewhere, Cain would have been marrying a sister..

Just curious as to your thoughts.


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## Skyler (Dec 18, 2011)

I personally am of the opinion that incest was not a sin until God forbade it in giving the law to Moses.

Incest isn't a law that stems _directly_ from the nature of God. It's based on man's sexual nature. I suspect that God permitted it before Moses because mankind's genetic degradation wasn't so far advanced that incest would be harmful.


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## MLCOPE2 (Dec 18, 2011)

Skyler said:


> I personally am of the opinion that incest was not a sin until God forbade it in giving the law to Moses.
> 
> Incest isn't a law that stems _directly_ from the nature of God. It's based on man's sexual nature. I suspect that God permitted it before Moses because mankind's genetic degradation wasn't so far advanced that incest would be harmful.


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## Weston Stoler (Dec 18, 2011)

MLCOPE2 said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > I personally am of the opinion that incest was not a sin until God forbade it in giving the law to Moses.
> ...



 ^2


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## raekwon (Dec 18, 2011)

What they said.


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## TimV (Dec 18, 2011)

Abraham also married his half sister, which like what Cain did was incest under Moses, and here in the West and most of the rest of the world today. So yes, God forced the Israelites to kill one year old Canaanite babies which is illegal under Moses, and He forced Cain to commit incest, which is illegal under Moses. All of which shows sin is moral rather than metaphysical, as my pastor Rushdoony used to say.


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## Peairtach (Dec 18, 2011)

In the early history of mankind the genetic problems caused by incest wouldn't be there. 

The other problem with incest, the marring of the integrity, unity and order of the nuclear and extended family, reflecting the order of the Trinity, wouldn't be there with the first generation either, but only after distinct families had formed.

Abraham and Sarah, or Abram and Sarai, came from Ur of the Chaldees, a pagan city.


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## TimV (Dec 18, 2011)

And?


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## Peairtach (Dec 18, 2011)

Well the fact that they got married according to the standards of the culture they were in didn't mean that it was the right thing to do.

God chooses and uses flawed people. The behaviour of the saints in the Bible doesn't necessarily tell us that what they did, or were doing was right. Abraham later on tells lies, as well as being married to his half-sister.


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## TimV (Dec 18, 2011)

Where did God say it was wrong before Moses? You seem to be basing your position on genetics???


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## Peairtach (Dec 18, 2011)

On morals.

Remember that the incest laws are about affinity aswell as consanguinity, so there's more to them than avoiding disease.

It's also about the integrity of the family and Man - male and female - made in God's Image, both one and plural.


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## Skyler (Dec 18, 2011)

Peairtach said:


> On morals.
> 
> Remember that the incest laws are about affinity aswell as consanguinity, so there's more to them than avoiding disease.
> 
> It's also about the integrity of the family and Man - male and female - made in God's Image, both one and plural.



Which passages are you thinking of that refer to incest with respect to the integrity of the family?


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## seajayrice (Dec 18, 2011)

Skyler said:


> I personally am of the opinion that incest was not a sin until God forbade it in giving the law to Moses.
> 
> Incest isn't a law that stems _directly_ from the nature of God. It's based on man's sexual nature. I suspect that God permitted it before Moses because mankind's genetic degradation wasn't so far advanced that incest would be harmful.



Ewwwwwww! That' s just icky.


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## elnwood (Dec 19, 2011)

Skyler said:


> Incest isn't a law that stems directly from the nature of God. It's based on man's sexual nature. I suspect that God permitted it before Moses because mankind's genetic degradation wasn't so far advanced that incest would be harmful.



So where does incest fall in terms of the threefold division of the law? Is it moral, ceremonial, or civil? If it's moral, how can that be since there are periods of time where it does not apply?


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## Weston Stoler (Dec 19, 2011)

How could they multiply without him marrying his sister. Either disobey one commandment or another. It is a dead end street for Cain. Good thing we Calvinists got it figured out though.


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## Skyler (Dec 19, 2011)

elnwood said:


> Skyler said:
> 
> 
> > Incest isn't a law that stems directly from the nature of God. It's based on man's sexual nature. I suspect that God permitted it before Moses because mankind's genetic degradation wasn't so far advanced that incest would be harmful.
> ...



I think it's a moral law. Some moral laws are based in God's nature ("thou shalt not bear false witness," "thou shalt not murder") and therefore are as eternal as He is; some moral laws (specifically sexual ones) are based in man's nature and are therefore temporal (and may, as in this case, not apply to all individuals).

We can see that incest didn't pass away with the Mosaic covenant because Paul condemns it in his epistle to the Corinthians.


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## J. Dean (Dec 19, 2011)

Weston Stoler said:


> MLCOPE2 said:
> 
> 
> > Skyler said:
> ...


Agreed, but I would also add from a biological standpoint that Adam and Eve, being the first parents, had enough genetic material so that the problems with incest would not occur. Their "genetic pool" would be diverse enough to prevent the biological problems of incest in their immediate descendants.

So while we see God's discretion as to forbidding it in His timing, we also see from a biological standpoint the reason why incest in early generations did not produce the physiological problems that it can present now. Thus we have harmony with science and theology.

Isn't God smart?


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## Peairtach (Dec 19, 2011)

The basic family unit of husband and wife with children couldn't get going until there had been a period when brothers were marrying sisters and until family units had been established and separated.

Laws against incest go deeper than preventing genetic disease, because there are laws against incest of affinity as well as incest of consanguinity. It is to do with the proper order of the family, and the proper order of the family is related to the order there is in God.



> So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. (Gen 1:27)



Man doesn't just image forth God individually but also collectively and the fundamental collective unit is the family.


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## FedByRavens (Dec 23, 2011)

This link may help you. http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/who-was-cains-wife


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## Pilgrim Standard (Dec 23, 2011)

The most explicit form of Incest was Adam and Eve, as she was taken from his own flesh. I presume that she would have the nearest DNA to her spouse of any Couple in history. This certainly was not a sin as God made the woman for the man. 

In time, incest was condemned and forbidden. DNA degradation is speculation, although I find it to be probable, but possibly not the only reason.


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## SolaScriptura (Dec 23, 2011)

Let's put it in different terms: Was there ever a time when incest was a beautiful thing? Or, to make it even more interesting, in contemporary times are there ever, or could there ever be circumstances that make incest a legitimate practice?


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## FedByRavens (Dec 23, 2011)

This link may help you. http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...was-cains-wife


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## black_rose (Dec 30, 2011)

FedByRavens said:


> This link may help you. http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...was-cains-wife



I actually saw this link and skimmed through it just before heading off to my grandmother's for Christmas.


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