# Differences between the ESV-CE and the ESV



## pmachapman (Jan 29, 2021)

I've created a complete list of all of the 150+ changes made to the Protestant Canon in the ESV-CE from the ESV 2016 edition at https://archive.azurewebsites.net/Documents/Differences Between the ESV and ESV-CE.pdf. I find this kind of stuff interesting, and couldn't find a list of these anywhere online, so I sat down and compiled it.

Some of the changes to me do seem to address some flawed translation choices in the ESV, but some do appear to be doctrine related. Some seem completely nonsensical. I would love to hear your thoughts on the changes, and whether any to you seem to be motivated by doctrine taking precedence over the text.

I've also created a video, if you are interested, where I go over what could be some of the rational behind the more important changes:

Reactions: Informative 4


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## PointyHaired Calvinist (Jan 29, 2021)

The seeming confusion of YHWH (LORD) and Adonai (Lord) really makes me scratch my head. Maybe some Hebrew scholars can chime in.

The rest don’t really bother me, but seem pretty much unnecessary.


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## Logan (Jan 29, 2021)

Interesting. I'm not sure why all the LORD changes as well, but everything seems reasonable. The one exception could potentially be the "_highly_ favored one" in regard to Mary, but the KJV also renders it that way.

Thoughts:
- "Emmanuel" is also spelled like that in the older translations so I would suspect it's mostly a familiarity thing.
- "highly favored" is also how the KJV translates it, so it would be hard to argue that it's incorrect.
- sanctified vs consecrated, I kind of like that they translated both forms of the word consistently in this edition ("for their sake I CONSECRATE myself that they also may be CONSECRATED"... as opposed to "sanctified").
- The Gentiles/pagan one is interesting, since it appears to be the same Greek word in all three locations.
- I actually don't know why the non-CE ESV departed from nearly every other translations to use "the betrothed". Pretty much every other translation has "virgins".

It seems to me like every change is pretty well-supported. Now the exact reasons behind those changes I don't know but it would be hard to argue that this is a "Papist Bible" in the same way that the Jehovah's Witnesses have their Bible.

Thank you for highlighting all those changes.

I'm going to link the old thread with the initial concerns and reactions that Crossway had sold out to the papists.





Crossway Approves Catholic Edition of the ESV


Well, this is troubling. Apparently, Crossway has approved letting Catholic bishops make changes to their translation for use by Catholics. According to Catholic Bible Student, the text was changed in order to prepare it for publication for Catholic use, "The Bishops Conference of India...




puritanboard.com

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## ChristianLibertarian (Jan 29, 2021)

PointyHaired Calvinist said:


> The rest don’t really bother me, but seem pretty much unnecessary.


Pretty much unnecessary is par for the course when it comes to all of the new versions that have come out over the last half century.

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## iainduguid (Jan 29, 2021)

pmachapman said:


> I've created a complete list of all of the 150+ changes made to the Protestant Canon in the ESV-CE from the ESV 2016 edition at https://archive.azurewebsites.net/Documents/Differences Between the ESV and ESV-CE.pdf. I find this kind of stuff interesting, and couldn't find a list of these anywhere online, so I sat down and compiled it.
> 
> Some of the changes to me do seem to address some flawed translation choices in the ESV, but some do appear to be doctrine related. Some seem completely nonsensical. I would love to hear your thoughts on the changes, and whether any to you seem to be motivated by doctrine taking precedence over the text.
> 
> I've also created a video, if you are interested, where I go over what could be some of the rational behind the more important changes:


On the Yahweh/Lord issue: are you sure that the comparison program is actually rendering these correctly? I ask because some "changes" don't seem to be changes at all; for example, Jer 7:2: , for they are not the LORD’sLORD’S. It seems really unlikely that all of these specific changes would be made so inconsistently - for example Lord GOD to LORD God in some places, LORD GOD in others and unchanged elsewhere. That's the kind of change that gets made at a global level not individually, unless the committee is entirely incompetent. Maybe the source document is defective. But the other changes are worth exploring; they seem to be a mix of pet interests, text critical choices, interpretive preferences and doctrinal emphases, typical of any committee. On the CSB project, we received a (very helpful) lengthy list of suggestions from the Wisconsin Lutherans that was similar (with different doctrinal interests obviously).

The decision not to capitalize "I am who I am" in Exod 3:14 is a good example of the challenges all translators face. The Hebrew obviously has no capitals, nor does the Greek. But the English tradition has capitalized this phrase, at least back to the Geneva Bible (which only capitalized the first letter of each word) and the KJV, which first capitalized the whole thing. Luther didn't capitalize it in his 1545 German Bible. Capitalizing it highlights the link between the self-description and the divine name, LORD. But it isn't actually itself the divine name. And where do you stop once you start? Should we capitalize "I am" in John 8:58? Whenever Jesus says _ego eimi? _Where does translation cross the boundary into interpretation?

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## pmachapman (Jan 29, 2021)

iainduguid said:


> On the Yahweh/Lord issue: are you sure that the comparison program is actually rendering these correctly?


This is something I am unsure on. Both copies came from Logos, and I used the text comparison tool in Logos to create the list. It doesn't look like the ESV-CE is in the Digital Bible Library, so I am unable to see if it is a Logos-only bug or not. It is also incredibly difficult to get a copy of the print edition in New Zealand, so I haven't been able to cross-check these changes with a print edition.

I would have thought that the ESV-CE revisers would have taken the USFM or USX files for the ESV from Crossway and made their changes to that. I have worked with Paratext, so am fairly familiar with some of the workflows that translators use with this software at least - if they followed a standard process, there shouldn't have been any accidental errors creep in.


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## KMK (Jan 29, 2021)

iainduguid said:


> The decision not to capitalize "I am who I am" in Exod 3:14 is a good example of the challenges all translators face.



Publishers seem to disagree on capitalization issues as well. CMS seems to throw up their hands on the issue of which pronouns get capitalized in the Bible.

Chicago Manual of Style 8.95: Pronouns referring to God or Jesus are not capitalized unless a particular author or publisher prefers otherwise. (Note that they are lowercased in most English translations of the Bible.)

Are publishers coming to any kind of consensus on capitalization of Proper and Pronouns in the Bible?


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