# Reformed / Presbyterian Prayer Book?



## WrittenFromUtopia

Is there any online or otherwise resource that has Reformed prayers? Something similar to the Anglican's Book of Common Prayer, but not necessarily a full liturgy, just prayers for particular occasions?


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## Contra_Mundum

What about _Valley of Vision_? (BoT, I believe)


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Contra_Mundum said:


> What about _Valley of Vision_? (BoT, I believe)



Yeah, I think I'll look into that.

Also, does anyone have any thoughts on making a 'personal liturgy' for one's self, to use every day and night, as an aid to consistantly going to the Lord in prayer and worship?


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## Kaalvenist

Might I recommend Lewis Bayly's "The Practice of Piety"?

Reactions: Like 1


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## jaybird0827

I have recommended this work on several threads and will recommend it over and over again.

Henry, Matthew -
A Method for Prayer, with Scripture Expressions Directions for Daily Communion with God

Matthew Henry was an independent and was also the son of a Presbyterian minister. I find this material very consistent with Biblical and confessional standards.

This book gave me an invaluable "kick-start" at one time and I continue to refer to it. It has helped me tremendously for family worship and also for when I'm asked to pray on occasion at our congregation's monthly prayer meeting.


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## R. Scott Clark

In Calvin's _Selected Works and Letters_ there is a collection of prayers. I'm pretty sure the same material is available on CD ROM. I don't know if it's online. The prayers tend to be a little long, but they're quite useful and stimulating.

rsc


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Thanks everyone!


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## dannyhyde

This is a project I hope to work on in the future, compiling the prayers of the various Reformed liturgies to be used in public and private.

You can read Thompson's Liturgies of the Western Church and Baird's Presbyterian Liturgies to get a sampling.


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## bill c.

What about a Diary of Private Prayer by Baillie?

Is Baillie Reformed? The blurb says he was a minister of the Church of Scotland??


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## Peter

My guess is that the author is the famous Robert Baillie of Glasgow who was a Covenanter, Westminster divine and chronicler of the Second Reformation. If he wrote the book it'd probably be very good.

_
If one were to buy the Anglican Book of Common prayer which version would you recommend?_

I'm thinking about getting it but I'd like to get the most calvinistic one available.


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## Staphlobob

Peter said:


> If one were to buy the Anglican Book of Common prayer which version would you recommend?[/I]
> I'm thinking about getting it but I'd like to get the most calvinistic one available.



Then I'd recommend the one from the Reformed Episcopal Church. 

BTW, I'm curious ... what is the theological difference between using a Reformed prayer book like "The Valley of Vision" (which I love) and a Calvinistic Book of Common Prayer?


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Staphlobob said:


> Then I'd recommend the one from the Reformed Episcopal Church.
> 
> BTW, I'm curious ... what is the theological difference between using a Reformed prayer book like "The Valley of Vision" (which I love) and a Calvinistic Book of Common Prayer?



I bought the Valley of Vision today, and plan on using it as a supplemental prayer book, but in the preface it says specifically that it is *NOT* to be used as a prayer manual. *shrug* I am thinking... "why not?"


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## Philip A

WrittenFromUtopia said:


> I bought the Valley of Vision today, and plan on using it as a supplemental prayer book, but in the preface it says specifically that it is *NOT* to be used as a prayer manual. *shrug* I am thinking... "why not?"



Because that would be "dead orthodoxy"? Because to admit weakness in prayer, and the need for help, is an offense to the theology of glory? Because to use another person's prayer is to deny the sovereignty of the individual in approaching God on one's own terms?

For what it's worth, I've got Baird's _Presbyterian Liturgies_, and a copy of the 1662 BCP, with appendixes from the 1549 version. I've also got a copy of _Luther's Prayers_ from Augsburg Press, very good for weak, earthy, loosery types. My copies of various Reformed liturgies from Reformation Heritage Books, the CanRC's Anglo-Genevan Psalter, etc. also have some forms for prayer.


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## Peter

Philip A said:


> Because that would be "dead orthodoxy"? Because to admit weakness in prayer, and the need for help, is an offense to the theology of glory? Because to use another person's prayer is to deny the sovereignty of the individual in approaching God on one's own terms?
> 
> For what it's worth, I've got Baird's _Presbyterian Liturgies_, and a copy of the 1662 BCP, with appendixes from the 1549 version. I've also got a copy of _Luther's Prayers_ from Augsburg Press, very good for weak, earthy, loosery types. My copies of various Reformed liturgies from Reformation Heritage Books, the CanRC's Anglo-Genevan Psalter, etc. also have some forms for prayer.



Does the Reformed Episcopal Church use the 1662 BCP? Thanks for the other recommendations (I'm sort of interested in this too).

I assume in your 1st paragraph you are being sarcastic. If so, I agree prayer forms are useful for helping weakness in prayer provided we acknowledge the forms were written by men of like infirmities and that they can themselves become a weakness if used slavishly and needlessly. Instead of a crutch they become a shackle.


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## WrittenFromUtopia

Silly, legalistic Puritans.


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## Staphlobob

Peter said:


> Does the Reformed Episcopal Church use the 1662 BCP?



Yes. It's the more Calvinistic, stripped-down version. Still quite beautiful while being extremely biblical/Reformed. (Yet their BCP does allow for an "Alternative Form" - the 1928 version. I think this one is okay, but not as good as the 1662.)

Later on in '07 a number of us will be starting up a new congregation (hopefully with the ERPC) and one of the things we're looking at is using this liturgy as an outline. Since these Christians are used to Holy Communion on a weekly basis the 1662 BCP *may* be a good alternative to the unbiblical, liberal drek that, seemingly omnipresent-like, stalks the landscape. 

And that's the reason I've also been asking about hymnals in other areas of this board.


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## AV1611

Staphlobob said:


> Yes. It's the more Calvinistic, stripped-down version. Still quite beautiful while being extremely biblical/Reformed. (Yet their BCP does allow for an "Alternative Form" - the 1928 version. I think this one is okay, but not as good as the 1662.)
> 
> Later on in '07 a number of us will be starting up a new congregation (hopefully with the ERPC) and one of the things we're looking at is using this liturgy as an outline. Since these Christians are used to Holy Communion on a weekly basis the 1662 BCP *may* be a good alternative to the unbiblical, liberal drek that, seemingly omnipresent-like, stalks the landscape.



At the church I attend (http://www.stjohns.f2s.com/index.html) we have a weekly Communion service either the 1662 BCP or the same thing but with modern spelling...there is no service I would prefer


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## toddpedlar

bill c. said:


> What about a Diary of Private Prayer by Baillie?
> 
> Is Baillie Reformed? The blurb says he was a minister of the Church of Scotland??



The author is John Baillie (not Robert, 'tis a pity) who is a 20th century Scottish ecumenical leader.



John Baillie was born in 1886, the son of Rev John Baillie (1829-1891), Free Church minister at Gairloch, Ross & Cromarty in the north-west of Scotland, and his wife Annie Macpherson. Following the death of his father, the family home was in Inverness and he was educated at Inverness Royal Academy and the University of Edinburgh. More study was undertaken at both Jena and Marburg and he held assistant positions at the University of Edinburgh before entering the church, as an assistant in 1912 and then being ordained in 1920.

The First World War saw Baillie playing an active role in both the YMCA and the British Expeditionary Force. The end of that war saw the start of his academic career and his married life. He held number of chairs at the Auburn and Union Thoeological Seminaries in New York and at Emmanuel College, University of Toronto, but he eventually returned to Edinburgh to become Professor of Divinity at New College in 1934. The rest of his professional life saw him returning to North America on a regular basis.

The advent of the Second World War saw Baillie use the North American links he had maintained to help persuade US entry into the conflict. He was elected as Moderator of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland and became Dean of the Faculty of Divinity at the University of Edinburgh in 1950, holding this position until retrial six years later. A member of both the British Council of Churches and the World Council of Churches, he became a President of the latter.

The only things I know of John Baillie are that he believes in the freedom of the will, and denies eternal punishment. I'm also aware of some strange statements being made about revelation by Baillie (e.g. "according to the Bible, what is revealed to us is not a body of information concerning various things of which we might otherwise be ignorant." from The Idea of Revelation). I gather from a quick perusal of the web that he was fairly typical of the liberal branch of the church against which Machen and others stood firm.


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## Staphlobob

AV1611 said:


> At the church I attend (http://www.stjohns.f2s.com/index.html) we have a weekly Communion service either the 1662 BCP or the same thing but with modern spelling...there is no service I would prefer



With modern spelling? Does this mean the language is contemporary (no "thee" "thou" "thy" etc.)? Or that a "v" is actually a "u" kind of thing? If it's the former ("thou" becomes "you") I'd be interested in knowing where you got hold of it. (BTW, the photograph of your church is quite nice.)

About 10 years ago I instituted weekly Communion at my congregation. For a few years I taught them about it, wrote about it, prepared them for it. Afterwards the actual institution of it wasn't too difficult. Now, after all these years, they say they couldn't imagine church without it.


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## pilgrim3970

Peter said:


> Does the Reformed Episcopal Church use the 1662 BCP?



The current REC Book of Common Prayer is based primarily on the 1662 with some additions from the ECUSA's 1928 BCP as well as the previous edition of the REC's BCP.

If you'd like to to take a look at it, you may do so here.

The orders for morning and evening prayer give a healthy dose of Scripture - Old and New Testament lessons as well as the Psalter. Regarding the Psalter, there are two methods of reciting the Psalms. The first is the psalter readings specified with the lessons and the second is specific 30 day schedule. 

Even if you are not interested in praying a set liturgical form, the prayers contained in the Prayer Book still make it an excellent resource.

Hope this helps

Hope this helps!


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## Archlute

I have been helped in times past by reading the well-penned prayers of earlier brothers in the faith; it can help one to think about prayer in fresh ways. However, I think that Owen got it right in his argument against the Anglican practice of praying words written by another (see vol. 4, the Holy Spirit). He argues that believers have been given the gift of the Spirit to assist and grow us in our prayers, and that neglecting to exercise this gift will cause it to atrophy. He states that while the Holy Ghost may give us grace to write out prayers for assisting ourselves, he never promised to assist someone else in writing prayers for another. That's just a small part of his argument, but it's quite a thought provoking read if you're ever interested.

The _Valley of Vision_ is an excellent work. I especially have profited from the group of "minister's prayers" in section eight of that work.

Also, you can find a nice grouping of "collects" (short prayers written according to a theme) out of the Book of Common Prayer's _Revised Liturgy of 1689_, found in appendix 2 of Terry Johnson's _Leading in Worship_ (Oak Ridge, TN: Covenant Foundation, 1996).


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## pilgrim3970

Archlute said:


> I have been helped in times past by reading the well-penned prayers of earlier brothers in the faith; it can help one to think about prayer in fresh ways.



Indeed. I have benefited greatly from not only reading but also praying such prayers.



> I think that Owen got it right in his argument against the Anglican practice of praying words written by another (see vol. 4, the Holy Spirit). He argues that believers have been given the gift of the Spirit to assist and grow us in our prayers, and that neglecting to exercise this gift will cause it to atrophy. He states that while the Holy Ghost may give us grace to write out prayers for assisting ourselves, he never promised to assist someone else in writing prayers for another. That's just a small part of his argument, but it's quite a thought provoking read if you're ever interested.



I do have a great amount of respect for John Owen but I have not read this particular work (so many books, so little time...). However in regards to this specific argument, I have to disagree with Dr. Owen. This argument might well be used against hymns as well. One can sing a hymn with little devotion just as easily as one may "read" a prayer rather than really pray it!

The Prayer Book tradition really serves a number of purposes. One, it is _common_ prayer. Imagine a gathering where the faithful are told that they are to sing whatever Psalm or Hymn comes to mind and that the accompanist may play whatever they are moved to play - it would be pretty chaotic. Just as a Hymn or Psalm or Canticle allows the congregation to praise with one voice so common prayer allows the congregation to pray with one voice. As a one Anglican Presbyter described it - it is a symphony of praise to God with each member of the body playing its part in turn.

Another aspect of the Prayer Book is _lex orandi, lex credendi_ - it reinforces the beliefs of the church ( this very thing in my opinion makes John Henry Newman's attempts at painting Anglicanism with a Roman brush repugnant). The collects from the Prayer Book serve as a means to teach as well as pray. 

Finally, and on a more personal level, it serves as a "School of prayer". I would never suggest that someone only pray from a book. It would however be of great benefit to new believers or the young in the church (the later of course, would also learn by prayerin the home). I liken this to learning ride a bike. One starts praying pre-written prayers much as one starts by riding with training wheels. Eventually one will start to paraphrase, gradually putting them into their own words - that stage where the wheels have been removed and mom or dad are walking along beside, steadying the bike as the child pedals. Eventually, just as a child begins riding unassisted, so the child of God having been nurtured by the prayers of godly men and women, finds their own voice.

This being said, whether one uses the Book of Common Prayer or follows the Directory of Family Worship, prays pre-written prayers verbatim or simply uses them for inspiration and guidance is, In my humble opinion, adiaphora. "In necessary things, unity; in doubtful things, liberty; in all things, charity." The important thing is that one prays in the Spirit and with understanding.



> The _Valley of Vision_ is an excellent work. I especially have profited from the group of "minister's prayers" in section eight of that work.



I have really been looking at buying this, with all the recommendations I've seen lately, looks like this may be soon!!


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