# Along the lines of faith v. works



## martyrologist (May 16, 2005)

(and thanks for the response on the LDS post, Larry)

I will be meeting with a couple of ladies from a group called Church of God, World Missions Society; I guess they are from Korea. They go out two by two, door to door, and ask you if you obey the passover as Christ did.

They're core teaching is Christ, yet they say you must observe the passover at the correct time and date each year. Also, you must obey the commandments, including celebrating the Sabbath on Saturday. The younger of the two (they emulated Mormonism to no end, these two) declared that justification is by faith and works.

Now, at the time, we had to cut the meeting short ('twas Mother's day). But, looks like they will be coming over next Sunday; they want to have a "Bible Study."

Before our discussion cut off, I got them to condense the topic to that of justification by faith or by faith and works. They kept trying to get me into a monologue (on their side) on the Sabbath and Passover and the commandments. I wanted to go to the heart of the matter, stick with justification, and deal with that as the most important issue.

Has anyone ever heard of these folks? I kept asking questions to try and figure out what they teach and believe to better understand how they arrive at their interpretations of passages. I am very confused as to what role they believe the Holy Spirit plays, or what they believe sanctification is, or what they believe justification is, and so forth.

Any guidance would be appreciated, along with prayers. When they do return, my plan (of course, my plans are eventually subject to change based on God's plan) is to discuss Rom. iv. and justification. Like with Mormons, I love to discuss grace. Let God be the justifier of the ungodly, and save them by His grace.


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## Puritanhead (May 16, 2005)

This could be Amway-- they try to quote Bible verses and sound religious to appeal to people with Christian fish emblems on their cars. The fact that they sound cultic as you mention, however, owes to the fact that they're probably with Amway. Don't be surprised if they equate the fruit of geniune faith with buying into their multi-level marketing scheme.
:bigsmile:


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## Puritanhead (May 16, 2005)

Oh yeah... welcome to the Puritanboard. j/k


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## Robin (May 17, 2005)

Ryan's on to something, Eddie. Meanwhile, you don't have to cooperate, you know.....


2 John 1:9 Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. 10If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house or give him any greeting, 11for whoever greets him takes part in his wicked works. 

But, if you wish to interact....I think a good tact is to ask them "what Gospel are you proclaiming today?" or "What is the Gospel?" Then let them answer. If you can, get them to read from their own Bibles some of the verses where Paul is proclaiming the Gospel and point out the differences. (Do a word-search:"gospel" on Bible-search.) Justification is great - but many times, these types of cults don't even use the word nor can grasp what it means (legally)... I find it necessary to lock them down at the ground zero of the reason they are at our doors to begin with: they think they are preaching the gospel -- so "which gospel?" is a great question to ask. (Be charitable, of course.) This question won't convert them there...but it might get them to doubt their position later on.



Robin


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## martyrologist (May 17, 2005)

*I appreciate the posts...*

I don't plan on converting them; nor do I fear my own faith. But, as I heard a preacher say yesterday, you're looking to plant the seed. That's all up to the Lord though.

I think asking them about the Gospel is a great question. Thank you. Also, I know with cults, particularly Mormonism, they want you to do the reading so they can feel control and think about their next move; having them read the text is making them face the text of Scripture, the Word of God.


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## Texas Aggie (May 19, 2005)

Don't ask them about the gospel! They will probably quote that Christ died and arose on the third day according to the scriptures . At this point, they are going to ask you: "what scriptures did Christ die according to?" Make sure you are ready.

This will lead into a discussion of the law (the Passover particularly), they will throw the whole Jonah business at you, and then they will try and convince you that there is no way that Christ died on a Friday and rose on a Sunday. The whole three days and three nights deal is not really three days and three nights... or is it (I always get confused). Next, they will let you know all about evil Easter, Christmas and all our great Christian holidays. Once Easter is out of the way, the Christian Sabbath of Sunday will soon be down the toilet.

What ever you do, don't bring up the Gospel.


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