# Musical instruments in worship



## Blueridge Believer (Oct 13, 2008)

This is the first out of three messages dealing with this subject. After listening to all three and recently reading Songs of Zion I am convinced Brian is right. He makes a strong case against thier use.
SermonAudio.com - Musical Instruments in Worship
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=112005184628
http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=11270518023

I went ahead and added the other two.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 13, 2008)

It is a real shame that many just sweep Rev. Schwertley to the side on this and many other things, for whatever reason they concoct.


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## Blueridge Believer (Oct 13, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> It is a real shame that many just sweep Rev. Schwertley to the side on this and many other things, for whatever reason they concoct.



I wasn't aware of any problems with him. I listen to him alot. Love the guy. His series on Liturgical antinomianism was great.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 13, 2008)

Blueridge Believer said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
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> 
> > It is a real shame that many just sweep Rev. Schwertley to the side on this and many other things, for whatever reason they concoct.
> ...



There are no "problems" with Rev. Schwertley. My point was that many dismiss him and ignore him for no good reason at all except for their own pride.


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## Blueridge Believer (Oct 13, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Blueridge Believer said:
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> > Backwoods Presbyterian said:
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Thanks brother Glaser. I am total agreement with Brian that reformed churches need a new reformation. I've had quite a few in the last 3 years alone and this issue is one of them.


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## greenbaggins (Oct 13, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Blueridge Believer said:
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Benjamin, this seems a bit close to reading motives to me. Are you sure this is fair?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 13, 2008)

greenbaggins said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
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> > Blueridge Believer said:
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It is fair when the situation calls for it. I have seen few critiques of Rev. Schwertley's work that are fully exegetical in nature and even then that do not summarily invoke some type of personal critique of him or of his supposed "associations".


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## greenbaggins (Oct 13, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> greenbaggins said:
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Don't get me wrong, I have a deep respect for his work. However, he's not exactly what you would call main-stream in terms of his publishing. So, his works are not published by a major publisher, and therefore he doesn't get read as much as his work certainly deserves. Why should that translate into people deliberately giving him the cold shoulder? His work has been reviewed in the Confessional Presbyterian (positively, if I recall).


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 13, 2008)

This is a discussion for another thread but it is precisely because Rev. Schwertley does not publish in "mainstream" ways it gives the impression to some unfortunately that he is not to be taken seriously because he does not have a PH.D from xyz Seminary or xyz University or because he is not published in xyz Journal or by xyz Publishing Co.


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## greenbaggins (Oct 13, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> This is a discussion for another thread but it is precisely because Rev. Schwertley does not publish in "mainstream" ways it gives the impression to some unfortunately that he is not to be taken seriously because he does not have a PH.D from xyz Seminary or xyz University or because he is not published in xyz Journal or by xyz Publishing Co.



I totally agree that he should be written off for any of those reasons. His book on the FV, by the way, was quite good. However, the fact that he is not published by a publisher that can actively promote his works to a wide audience guarantees that his books will not receive the attention they deserve. It's unfortunate, but that's the nature of publishing these days. In any case, I don't he's being ignored because people want to ignore him.


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## N. Eshelman (Oct 13, 2008)

Much of the critique that I have heard revolve around what people perceive as him still being in the 'cage stage' (google it). People also critique him based on the fact that he has changed denominations so frequently and now has helped found one based on the assumption that much of Presbyterianism is apostate. 

I love his writings too, I have met him on several occasions, had him in my home more than one time, hosted him for a Grand Rapids book tour- but I know what people are talking about.... the argument goes like this: Without charity I am but a clashing cymbal and you know a tree by its fruits. 

I am not speaking against him, per se, but I have heard from a lot of people that they feel as though he 'burned' them. This would surely limit your readership and your 'authority' as a man of God.


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## Marrow Man (Oct 13, 2008)

Doesn't Rev. Schwertley, much like John Piper, make many of his works free online? If so, could someone post a link?

I'm under the impression that the biggest "problem" with Rev. Schwertley is remembering how to spell his last name. Can I buy a vowel, Pat?


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## PresReformed (Oct 13, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


> Doesn't Rev. Schwertley, much like John Piper, make many of his works free online? If so, could someone post a link?
> 
> I'm under the impression that the biggest "problem" with Rev. Schwertley is remembering how to spell his last name. Can I buy a vowel, Pat?



Welcome - Reformed Online Library


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## PresReformed (Oct 13, 2008)

nleshelman said:


> Much of the critique that I have heard revolve around what people perceive as him still being in the 'cage stage' (google it). People also critique him based on the fact that he has changed denominations so frequently and now has helped found one based on the assumption that much of Presbyterianism is apostate.
> 
> I love his writings too, I have met him on several occasions, had him in my home more than one time, hosted him for a Grand Rapids book tour- but I know what people are talking about.... the argument goes like this: Without charity I am but a clashing cymbal and you know a tree by its fruits.
> 
> I am not speaking against him, per se, but I have heard from a lot of people that they feel as though he 'burned' them. This would surely limit your readership and your 'authority' as a man of God.



I have known Pastor Schwertley for about ten years now. During that time I myself have changed denominations twice. What I see in Brian is a man that will not compromise his beliefs just to be popular or ecumenical. I agree with him that much of Presbyterianism is apostate on the very issues he writes about. Purity of worship and defending the true gospel against the inventions of men are huge issues that plague modern Presbyterianism. I thank God that there are are still stalwart Presbyterians like Brian out there.


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## N. Eshelman (Oct 13, 2008)

PresReformed said:


> nleshelman said:
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> > Much of the critique that I have heard revolve around what people perceive as him still being in the 'cage stage' (google it). People also critique him based on the fact that he has changed denominations so frequently and now has helped found one based on the assumption that much of Presbyterianism is apostate.
> ...



Then most of this board is apostate. Many of us are in the denominations that he has condemned.


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## VictorBravo (Oct 13, 2008)

If someone wants to discuss instruments in worship, let a new thread begin. This one has derailed immediately into something else, so I'm closing it. 

BTW, it might be helpful to write out a summary of the points raised in the audio.


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