# Should we evangelize clones?



## RamistThomist (Jul 11, 2007)

If we ever come to the day where we have clones of humans, should we evangelise them?


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## crhoades (Jul 11, 2007)

We'd better or they will turn to the Dark Side and overthrow the Republic...


DOH! It's too late!


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

Yes, based on Genesis 9:6. The clone would still be an image bearer and therefore we would be obligated to bring the gospel call to him or her just as we were obligated to bring it to the original.


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## crhoades (Jul 11, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> Yes, based on Genesis 9:6. The clone would still be an image bearer and therefore we would be obligated to bring the gospel call to him or her just as we were obligated to bring it to the original.


 
Sure...play the straight man. Bob, I'm disappointed. This was a softball pitch for ya. Maybe this gentle ribbing will bring out some wit.


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## Theoretical (Jul 11, 2007)

Besides, we evangelize natural clones with regard to identical twins. Merely because a crafty human figures out how to make one person multiple people would not remove our obligation, I would not think.


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

crhoades said:


> Sure...play the straight man. Bob, I'm disappointed. This was a softball pitch for ya. Maybe this gentle ribbing will bring out some wit.



I think it's because Jacob started the thread. I still have the image in my head of Jacob wearing that black cowboy and his serious steely stare. I'm afraid if I don't treat his posts seriously that he might come up here and thrash me with an ax handle and then walk calmly away from my broken body saying, "There's nothing like a good piece of hickory."

Sorry to disappoint you Chris, I'll turn my buffoonery dial back up and hunt for a poster who doesn't intimidate me as much. Hey Joshua! Where you hiding?


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## RamistThomist (Jul 11, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> I think it's because Jacob started the thread. I still have the image in my head of Jacob wearing that black cowboy and his serious steely stare. I'm afraid if I don't treat his posts seriously that he might come up here and thrash me with an ax handle and then walk calmly away from my broken body saying, "There's nothing like a good piece of hickory."
> 
> Sorry to disappoint you Chris, I'll turn my buffoonery dial back up and hunt for a poster who doesn't intimidate me as much. Hey Joshua! Where you hiding?



that was funny.


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## VirginiaHuguenot (Jul 11, 2007)

Draught Horse said:


> that was funny.



Uh-oh. There was no smilie from Jacob. You're in trouble now, Bob. I would be afraid -- be very afraid.


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## RamistThomist (Jul 11, 2007)

VirginiaHuguenot said:


> Uh-oh. There was no smilie from Jacob. You're in trouble now, Bob. I would be afraid -- be very afraid.



kind of like the Mafia's "Kiss of Death."


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

Jacob, was that 'funny ha, ha' or 'funny, I'm going to hurt who so bad your great, great grandchildren will be fussing'?


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

Yeah, now see, this is what I'm talkin' about.






How can I compete, no matter what picture I take of myself I always look pretty. Who is frightened of a male model? Nobody, not even other male models.


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## crhoades (Jul 11, 2007)

No worries Bob...don't worry about theonomic types...They have case laws to go by. He'll only attack in self defense. You only have to worry about the pragmatic, ends justifies the means kinds.


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## larryjf (Jul 11, 2007)

Westminster Shorter Catechism Q&A 16...


> Question 16: Did all mankind fall in Adam's first transgression.?
> Answer: The covenant being made with Adam, not only for himself, but for his posterity; all mankind, descending from him *by ordinary generation*, sinned in him, and fell with him, in his first transgression.



Could this imply that a clone, not coming from ordinary generation, would not have original sin?


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## crhoades (Jul 11, 2007)

larryjf said:


> Westminster Shorter Catechism Q&A 16...
> 
> 
> Could this imply that a clone, not coming from ordinary generation, would not have original sin?


 
I think the original intent was to safeguard Christ's conception from including him in Original Sin.


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

larryjf said:


> Westminster Shorter Catechism Q&A 16...
> 
> 
> Could this imply that a clone, not coming from ordinary generation, would not have original sin?




No, not at all. Though the WSC could not foresee cloning, the distinction 'ordinary generation' is made to distinguish from Christ's being begotten, not made. A clone would still be a descendant of Adam and in Adam, all have sinned.


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## larryjf (Jul 11, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> No, not at all. Though the WSC could not foresee cloning, the distinction 'ordinary generation' is made to distinguish from Christ's being begotten, not made. A clone would still be a descendant of Adam and in Adam, all have sinned.



But couldn't it be argued that our federal headship comes from Adam and not Eve? And because of that if one were born of a woman without the seed of a man they would bypass the federal headship in a sense?

I do believe that a clone would still be born in sin, but i think these are interesting questions that the whole process brings up.


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

But Larry, even if the clone passed through the womb it would not be a birth, it would be a replication and therefore would possess the attributes and nature of the original.


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## larryjf (Jul 11, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> But Larry, even if the clone passed through the womb it would not be a birth, it would be a replication and therefore would possess the attributes and nature of the original.



Good point. But what happens when they alter the genetic structure? Then it would no longer be a replication per say.

The reason i still think they are born in sin is because the Holy Spirit is not keeping them from the pollution or original sin as He did with Christ. Otherwise Christ would have inherited the sinfulness of Mary (which is where Catholics get the teaching of the immaculate conception of Mary).


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

larryjf said:


> Good point. But what happens when they alter the genetic structure? Then it would no longer be a replication per say.
> 
> The reason i still think they are born in sin is because the Holy Spirit is not keeping them from the pollution or original sin as He did with Christ. Otherwise Christ would have inherited the sinfulness of Mary (which is where Catholics get the teaching of the immaculate conception of Mary).



Altering the genetic structure doesn't make a difference. The sin, as you said before, is passed on through the seed of the father, not the blood of the mother. In fact, the placenta creates a unique and separate blood supply. The clone would be sinful because it would be a replica of the original polluted by the seed of the father. A clone enters life pre-polluted just as his original did.


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## shackleton (Jul 11, 2007)

Does this go back to the Traducian vs. Creation debate? 
Would clones have souls, or would they just breath air like the animals? 
Would they have a sin nature? 
Where would they have gotten it from? 
Would the sin nature be passed on from the original host, or imputed onto them by God? 
Is it a part of God's divine, ultimate plan for clones to be a reality?


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## BobVigneault (Jul 11, 2007)

shackleton said:


> Does this go back to the Traducian vs. Creation debate? *It certainly touches on it.*
> 
> Would clones have souls, or would they just breath air like the animals? *It would have a very similar soul to the original.*
> 
> ...



I'm a clone
I know it and I'm fine
I'm one and more are on the way
I'm two, doctor
Three's on the line
He'll take incubation another day
CHORUS: I'm all alone, so are we all
We're all clones
All are one and one are all
All are one and one are all
We destroyed the government
We're destroying time
No more problems on the way

REFRAIN: I'm through doctor
We don't need your kind
The other ones
Ugly ones
Stupid boys
Wrong ones
CHORUS
Six is having problems
Adjusting to his clone status
Have to put him on a shelf
(Please don't put me on the shelf)
All day long we hear him crying so loud
I just wanna be myself
I just wanna be myself
I just wanna be myself
Be myself
Be myself

I'm all alone, so are we all
We destroyed the government
We're destroyed time
No more problems on the way
REFRAIN
CHORUS
I'm all alone, so are we all
We're all clones
All are one and one are all
All are one and one are all
-- Alice Cooper


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## shackleton (Jul 11, 2007)

So, since they are replicas of us and we are sinful, then they would be sinful and therefore need to be evangelized. 

Maybe we could find DNA of all the great preachers of the past and justt clone them. 
Maybe we could create a sort of Jurasic Park only make it Puritan Park instead.


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## dcomin (Jul 11, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> I'm a clone
> I know it and I'm fine
> I'm one and more are on the way
> I'm two, doctor
> ...



Now THAT's scary! Not only are you a fellow hip-hop head, but you are also an Alice Cooper fan like me???? 

If I was more of a "male model" type, I'd think WE might be clones!


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## Semper Fidelis (Jul 11, 2007)

When I was a kid, my dad took me to a circus for the first time. I think I was six. I enjoyed the trapeeze and the tight rope and the lions.

But I loved watching the clowns. They were so funny with their faces painted up and their little car and their big shoes.

Just because clowns seem happy doesn't mean they're not happy. In fact, you've probably seen clowns with the sad face.

Underneath that makeup that makes them seem happy all the time are real people with sins just like you and me.

They need the Gospel too.

So, my answer is YES. We should evangelize clowns.


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## Pilgrim (Jul 11, 2007)

BobVigneault said:


> I'm a clone
> I know it and I'm fine
> I'm one and more are on the way
> I'm two, doctor
> ...



Flush the Fashion! 

Great song.


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