# Be Cut Off for the Sake of the Brethren?



## Arch2k (May 12, 2006)

Exo 32:32 Yet now, if You will forgive their sin--but if not, I pray, blot me out of Your book which You have written."

Rom 9:3 For I could wish that I myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my countrymen according to the flesh,
Rom 9:4 who are Israelites, to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises;
Rom 9:5 of whom are the fathers and from whom, according to the flesh, Christ came, who is over all, the eternally blessed God. Amen.

Robert Haldane on Romans 9:2 :



> Many interpretations have been given of this passage. Calvin supposes that Paul, actually in "˜a state of ecstasy,´ wished himself condemned in the place of his countrymen. "˜The additional sentence,´ he says, "˜proves the Apostle to be speaking not of temporal, but eternal death; and when he says from Christ, an allusion is made to the Greek word anathema, which means a separation from anything. *Does not separation from Christ mean, being excluded from all hopes of salvation?´ Such a thing is impossible, and would be highly improper. This would do more than fulfill the demands of the law, "” it would utterly go beyond the law, and would therefore be sinful; for all our affections ought to be regulated by the law of God.* Some understand it of excommunication. But the Apostle could not be excommunicated by Christ, except for a cause which would exclude him from heaven, as well as from the church on earth. He could not be excommunicated without being guilty of some sin that manifested him to be an unbeliever. *It is not possible that one speaking in the Holy Ghost could wish to be in such a state.* Paul´s affection for his countrymen is here indeed expressed in very strong terms, but the meaning often ascribed to it is not for a moment to be admitted. *That any one should desire to be eternally separated from Christ, and consequently punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, is impossible*. The law commands us to love our neighbor as ourselves, but not more than ourselves, which would be the case, if to promote his temporal or spiritual benefit we desired to be eternally miserable. It should also be recollected, that it is not only everlasting misery, but desperate and final enmity against God, that is comprised in Paul´s wish as it is generally understood.
> 
> It represents him as loving the creature more than the Creator. But who could ever imagine that the desire of being eternally wicked, and of indulging everlasting hatred to God, could proceed from love to Christ, and be a proper manner of expressing zeal for His glory? It would be strange indeed if Paul, who had just been affirming, in a tone so triumphant, the impossibility of the combined efforts of creation to separate him from the love of Christ, should, the moment after, solemnly desire that this separation should take place, for the sake of any creature, however beloved.
> 
> ...



What are we to make of these two verses? Is it sinful to wish to be cut off from Christ "spiritually" for the sake of others? Or is this not the proper interpretation of these verses (at least Romans 9:2 as Haldane indicates)?


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## SolaScriptura (May 12, 2006)

I think he's trying too hard.

I take these verses as simply pictures into the heart and mind of a person who loves someone else so much that they wish that they could do something - anything - to get them to believe the truth.

I've known many parents who experience this type of thing.


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## Herald (May 12, 2006)

I concur with Ben.


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## Arch2k (May 12, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> I take these verses as simply pictures into the heart and mind of a person who loves someone else so much that they wish that they could do something - anything - to get them to believe the truth.



Thanks Ben. So would you say that Paul/Moses are in sin for loving their brethren more than God?


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## Semper Fidelis (May 13, 2006)

From Hendrickson:


> 1, 2. I am speaking the truth in Christ"”I am not lying; my conscience bears witness along with me in the Holy Spirit"”(when I declare) that I have great sorrow and unceasing anguish in my heart.
> With the words, "œI am speaking the truth "¦ I am not lying" compare II Cor. 11:31; 12:6; Gal. 1:20; I Tim. 2:7.
> It is clear that Paul is deeply moved when he dictates these words. The sorrow of his heart is great in its intensity, deep in its nature, amounting to nothing less than anguish, and unceasing in its duration.
> Why does Paul say that he is indeed speaking the truth when he thus describes the inner state of his mind and heart?
> ...


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## panta dokimazete (May 13, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Jeff_Bartel_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by SolaScriptura_
> ...



Is it not godly to desire to sacrifice yourself for another?

John 15:13
Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends.


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