# False converts?



## lifelong_sinner (Jan 1, 2022)

I believe that God uses everything for His glory. With that said, what about false converts? Or better yet, why are false converts, false converts? Where did it go wrong? What mistakes, if any, caused someone to become a false convert? Would total depravity be the resounding answer for why there are false converts? And lastly, do you think the majority of false converts remain false converts?


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## Charles Johnson (Jan 1, 2022)

There are false converts because it's possible to intellectually assent to Christian doctrine without being regenerate. Nothing "went wrong" per se, except that God did not regenerate that person.


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## lifelong_sinner (Jan 1, 2022)

So i take it that asking “how do you know if you’re a false convert” is the same as asking “how do you know if you have been born again?” 

It just seems a shame that some people can be so close to salvation, yet cant figure out the last step.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 2, 2022)

I think, and I could be wrong, False Faith and Real Faith issues are discussed in James. All we can see and hope for is that our faith is in the Person and Work of Christ. Truly, people who call on God out of a sincere heart are brought to that place only by the Grace of God. First John is an excellent book to examine when asking your questions. 

First John Chapter Two
19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

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## lifelong_sinner (Jan 2, 2022)

So, if God doesnt call us, are we to not worry about it? And just willingly accept hell?


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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 2, 2022)

lifelong_sinner said:


> So, if God doesnt call us, are we to not worry about it? And just willingly accept hell?


1Co 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 

The Natural man doesn't care about such things.

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## lifelong_sinner (Jan 2, 2022)

So, can it be said that if one does care, and worry, can it be said that they are saved? See, this is where the line between false convert and the saved becomes blurred to me. Obviously atheists dont care, but Jesus said many would say they did things in His name, but that He didnt know them. That says to me that not all who profess to be saved actually are.


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## C4MERON (Jan 2, 2022)

It is true that many who profess to be saved actually are not. Jesus spoke of this in Matthew 7: 21 as you rightly observed.
Observe the latter portion of the verse “but he that *doeth *the will of my Father which is in heaven”
So it seems that the doing is not merely ‘many wonderful works’, Jesus will declare He doesn’t know such.
The jailer in Acts asked ‘What must I do to be saved?’, Paul and Silas replied ‘believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house’.
If you are concerned about matters pertaining to salvation, it is a good sign but do not stop there. If you can throw yourself upon God’s mercy and lay hold of Christ you will be saved.
Hope this helps a little. There will be far more fuller expressions and input to come for many know more than I do friend.

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## alexanderjames (Jan 2, 2022)

This is where the Puritans were strong, especially compared to the common response today. They took seriously these questions, and their writings on the subject are eminently helpful. 

Ultimately though, until we have a firm grasp of Christ by faith, we won’t find any enduring assurance.

I urge you, do not rest until you have this. God does not call us to resign ourselves to hell. He calls us to repentance and faith. Seek the Lord until you find Him. 

Christ’s words for us,

“Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able.”

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffers violence, and the violent take it by force.”

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## Ed Walsh (Jan 2, 2022)

lifelong_sinner said:


> So i take it that asking “how do you know if you’re a false convert” is the same as asking “how do you know if you have been born again?”
> 
> It just seems a shame that some people can be so close to salvation, yet cant figure out the last step.



This excerpt from Gurnall’s Christian in Complete Armour might be a little long, but might be the needed food for the soul to a false convert who sincerely wants to know his true state.
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Chapter XIII

*a word of direction to those who, upon trial, are found unsound and false-hearted*​
Having laid down characters of the sincere heart, it will be necessary to make some improvement of them, as the report shall be that conscience makes in your bosoms, upon putting yourselves to the trial of your spiritual states by the same. Now the report that conscience makes, after examination of yourselves, by those notes prefixed, will amount to one of these three inferences. Either it will condemn thee for a hypocrite, or pronounce thee a sincere Christian; or, thirdly, bring in an ignoramus, and leave thee in doubt whether thou art sincere or not. That I may therefore find thee, reader, at one door, if I miss thee at another, I shall speak severally to all three.

First, To such who upon trial are cast: evidence comes in so clear and strong against them that their conscience cannot hold, but tells them plainly, if these be the marks of sincerity, then they are hypocrites. The improvement I would make of this trial, for your sakes, is to give a word of counsel what in this case you are to do that you may become sincere.

First, Get thy heart deeply affected with thy present dismal state. No hope of cure till thou art chafed into some sense of feeling of thy deplored condition. Physic cannot be given so long as the patient is asleep; and it is the nature of this disease to make the soul heavy-eyed, and dispose it to a kind of slumber of conscience, by reason of the flattering thoughts the hypocrite hath of himself from some formalities he performs above others in religion, which fume up from his deceived heart, like so many pleasing vapours, from the stomach to the head, and bind up his spiritual senses into a kind of stupidity, yea, cause many pleasing dreams to entertain him with vain hopes and false joys, which vanish as soon as he wakes and comes to himself. The Pharisees, the most notorious hypocrites of their age, how fast asleep were they in pride and carnal confidence, despising all the world in comparison of themselves, not afraid to commend themselves to God, yea, prefer themselves before others: ‘God, I thank thee, I am not like this publican;’ as if they would tell God they did look to find some more respect from him than others, so far beneath them, had at his hand. Therefore Christ, in his dealing with this proud generation of men, useth an unusual strain of speech; his voice, which to others was still and soft, is heard like thunder breaking out of the clouds when he speaks to them: how many dreadful claps have we almost together in the same chapter fall on their heads, out of the mouth of our meek and sweet Saviour, Matt. 23: ‘Woe unto you, scribes and pharisees.’ No less than eight woes doth Christ discharge upon them, as so many case-shot together, that by multiplying the woes he might shew not only the certainty of the hypocrite’s damnation, but precedency also; and yet how many of that rank do we read of to be awakened and converted by these sermons! Some few there were indeed, that the disease might appear not incurable, but very few, that we may tremble the more of falling into it, or letting it grow upon us. Peter learned of his Master how to handle the hypocrite, who, having to do with one far gone in this disease, Simon Magus, Acts. 8:21, he steeps his words as it were in vinegar and gall: ‘Thou hast neither part nor lot in this matter, for thy heart is not right in the sight of God;’ there he lays the weight of his charge, that he carried a hypocritical heart in his bosom, which was a thousand times worse than his simoniacal fact, though that was foul enough; it was not barely that fact, but proceeding from a heart inwardly rotten and false, which God gave Peter an extraordinary spirit to discern, that proved him to be in ‘the gall of bitterness, and bond of iniquity;’ only in this better than the damned souls in hell, they were in the fire, he in the bond of iniquity, like a faggot bound up, fit for it, but not cast in: they past hope, and he so much left as might amount to a ‘perhaps’ if the thought of his heart might be forgiven. To give but one instance more, and that is of a whole church, hypocritical Laodicea; the Spirit of God takes her up more sharply than all the rest, which though he charged with some particular miscarriages, yet finds something among them he owns and commends. But in her, because she was conceited already, as this leaven of hypocrisy naturally puffs up, he mentions nothing that was good in her, lest it should feed that humour that did so abound already, and take away the smartness of the reproof, which was the only probable means left of recovering her. All that inclines to sleep is deadly to a lethargic; and all that is soothing and cockering dangerous to hypocrites. Some say, the surest way to cure a lethargy, is to turn it into a fever. To be sure the safest way to deal with the hypocrites is to bring them from their false peace to a deep sense of their true misery. Let this then be thy first work; aggravate thy sin and put thy soul into mourning for it. When a person who was by the priest, who was to judge in case of leprosy, pronounced unclean, the leper thus convicted ‘was to rend his clothes, go bareheaded, and put a covering upon his upper lip,’ all ceremonies used by mourners, and to cry, ‘Unclean, unclean!’ Lev. 13:45. Thus do thou, as a true mourner, sit down and lament the plague of thy heart; cry out bitterly, ‘Unclean! unclean I am!’ not fit by reason of thy hypocritical heart to come near God or his saints, but to be, like the leper, separate from both. If thou hadst such a loathsome disease reigning on thee as did pollute the very seat thou sittest on, bed thou liest on, and drop such filthiness on every thing thou comest near, even to the meat thou eatest, and cup thou drinkest from, that should make all abandon thy company, how great would thy sorrow be, as thou didst sit desolate and musing alone of thy doleful condition? Such a state thy hypocrisy puts thee into, a plague it is, more offensive to God than such a disease could make thee to men; it runs like a filthy sore through all the duties and goodly coverings that you can put over it, and defiles them and thee so, that God will take an offering out of the devil’s hand as soon as out of thine while thou continuest a hypocrite; and did the saints of God, with whom thou hast may be so much credit as to be admitted to join with them at present, know thee, they would make as much haste from thee as from him on whom they should see the plague-tokens; but should not thy disease be known till thou art dead, and so keep thy reputation with them, yea possibly by them be thought, when thou diest, a saint, will this give thee any content in hell, that they are speaking well of thee on earth? ‘O poor Aristotle,’ said one, ‘thou art praised where thou art not, and burnt where thou art!’ he meant it was poor comfort to that great heathen philosopher to be admired by men of learning, that have kept up his fame from generation to generation, if he all the while be miserable in the other world. So here, O poor hypocrite, that art ranked among saints on earth, but punished among devils in hell!

Secondly, When thy heart is deeply affected with the sin and misery of thy hypocritical heart, thou must be convinced of thy insufficiency to make a cure of thyself. Hypocrisy is like a fistula sore, it may seem a little matter by the small orifice it hath, but it is therefore one of the hardest among wounds to be cured, because it is so hard to find the bottom of it. O take heed thy heart doth not put a cheat upon thyself! It will be very forward to promise it will lie no more, be false and hypocritical no more, but take counsel of a wise man, who bids thee not rely on what it saith: ‘He is a fool that trusts his own heart,’ Prov. 28:26. O how many die because loth to be at pains and costs to go to a skilful physician at first! take heed of self-resolutions and self-reformations; sin is like the king’s evil, God, not ourselves, can cure it. He that will be tinkering with his own heart, and not seek out to heaven for help will in the end find, where he mends one hole he makes two worse; where he reforms one sin, he will fall into the hands of many more dangerous.

Thirdly, Betake thyself to Christ as the physician, on whose skill and faithfulness thou wilt rely entirely for cure. _Si pereundum, inter peritissimos;_ if thou perish, resolve to perish at his door. But for thy comfort know, never any that he undertook miscarried under his hand, nor ever refused he to undertake the cure of any that came to him on such an errand. He blamed those hypocrites, John 5:40–43, because they were ready to throw away their lives by trusting an empiric who should come in his own name, without any approbation or authority from God for the work, but ‘would not come to him that they might have life, though he came in his Father’s name, and had his seal and license to practise his skill on poor souls for their recovery. And he that blamed those for not coming, will not, cannot be angry with thee who comest. It is his calling, and men do not use to thrust customers out, but invite them into their shops. When Christ was on earth he gave this reason why he conversed so much with publicans and sinners, and so little among the Pharisees, because there was more work for him, Matt. 9:11, 12. Men set up where they think trade will be quickest. Christ came to be a physician to sick souls; Pharisees were so well in their own conceit, that Christ saw he should have little to do among them, and so he applied himself to those who were more sensible of their sickness. If thou, poor soul, art but come to thyself so far as to groan under thy cursed hypocrisy, and directest these thy groans in a prayer to heaven for Christ’s help, thou shalt have thy physician soon with thee, never fear it. He hath not, since he ascended, laid down his calling, but still follows his practice as close as ever; we find him sending his advice from heaven, in that excellent receipt, Rev. 3, to Laodicea, what she should do for her recovery out of this very disease of hypocrisy: ‘I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest he rich, and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed,’ &c.; as if he had said, Laodicea, thou tradest in false ware, deceiving thyself and others with appearances for realities, counterfeit graces for true; thy gold is dross, thy garments rotten rags, which do not hide, but discover thy shame; come to me and thou shalt have that which is for thy turn, and better, cheap also; for though here is mention of buying, no more is meant than to come with a buyer’s spirit, valuing Christ and his grace so high, that if they were to be bought, though with all the money in thy purse, yea, blood in thy veins, thou wouldst have them, and not go home and say thou wert hardly used. It is the thirsty soul that shall be satisfied, only look thy thirst be right and deep.

First, Right; a heart-thirst, and not simply a conscience-thirst. It is a very different heat that causeth the one and the other. Hell-fire may inflame the conscience, so as to make the guilty sinner thirst for Christ’s blood to quench the torment which the wrath of God hath kindled in his bosom; but it is heaven-fire, and only that, which begets a kindly heat in the heart, that breaks out in longings of soul for Christ and his Spirit, with sweet cooling dews of grace to slack and extinguish the fire of lust and sin.

Again, Look it be deep. Physicians tell us of a thirst which comes from the dryness of the throat, and not any great inward heat of the stomach; and this thirst may be quenched with a gargle in the mouth, which is spit out again, and goes not down. And truly there is something like this in many that sit under the preaching of the gospel. Some light touches are now and then found upon the spirits of men and women, occasioned by some spark that falls on their affections in hearing the word, whereby they on a sudden express some desires after Christ and his grace, that you would think they would in all haste for heaven; but being slighty flashes, and weak velleities, rather than strong volitions and deep desires, their heat is soon over, and thirst quenched with a little present sweetness they taste when they are hearing a sermon of Christ, which they spit out again as soon as they are gone home almost, as well as may be, though they never enjoy more of him. Labour, therefore, for such a deep sense of thy own wretchedness by reason of thy hypocrisy, and of Christ’s excellency by reason of that fulness of grace in him, which makes him able to cure thee of thy distemper; that as a man thoroughly athirst can be content with nothing but drink, and not a little of that neither, but a full satisfying draught, whatever it costs him; so thou mayest not be bribed with anything besides Christ and his sanctifying grace, nor with gifts, profession, or pardon itself, if it could be severed from grace, no, not with a little sparkling of grace, but long for whole floods, wherewith thou mayest be fully purged and freed of thy cursed lust, which now so sadly oppresseth thee. This frame of spirit would put thee under the promise (heaven’s security) that thou shalt not lose thy longing; if thou shouldst ask silver and gold, and seek any worldly enjoyment at this rate, thou mightest spend thy breath and pains in vain; God might let thee roar, like Dives in hell, in the midst of those flames which thy covetous lust had kindled, without affording a drop of that to cool thy tongue, which thou so violently pantest after; but if Christ and his grace be the things thou wouldest have, yea, must have, truly then thou shalt have them, Matt. 5:6: ‘Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness, for they shall be satisfied.’
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Gurnall, W., & Campbell, J. (1845). _The Christian in Complete Armour_ (pp. 261–264). Thomas Tegg.


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## Morgan (Jan 2, 2022)

The watering down of the Gospel for at least a few centuries has contributed to false converts in America. The churches I attended prior to redemption were complicit in affirming my false professions of faith, as are many churches today. Yes, even within PCA churches, I almost joined a PCA church and my wife and I were going through a new members class with a ruling Elder and one other family. That other family was straight out of the Catholic Church and their answers to his questions made it obvious neither were not believers, yet they were allowed to join the church as unbelievers. 

People are misled into saying prayers for salvation, keeping rules to make them feel they have favor from God. Most churches in America only require a trip down the aisle and repeating a prayer after the Pastor. Churches today focus more on getting numbers so they can get money, bigger churches draw more people hence more money. I say this out of contact with numerous churches in the years I was in prison ministry as well as from over fifty years of church attendance over my life. 

The Puritans never shied away from telling people they were not redeemed if they did not act in accordance with scripture, even Lloyd Jones would state the same. Today I see very few (outside of a small group like Paul Washer) that will dare to tell someone they are lost. This is why churches are full of false brothers as Paul states it in Galatians. 

As wee see from scripture, false brothers have always been an issue, but I think the problem is exacerbated today. Look at the change in preaching and content of messages from the 1600's to today and I think the reason why the problem has worsened will be apparent. Here are some examples, when women are allowed to preach and be Pastors and church leaders, when wokeness is the topic of messages, when political leaders are allowed to "preach" in churches - our issue is evident.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 2, 2022)

Another angle: God never sent anyone to hell for trusting too much in Jesus.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Jan 2, 2022)

BayouHuguenot said:


> Another angle: God never sent anyone to hell for trusting too much in Jesus.


God will send many to hell who trust in their abilities and obedience to get them into heaven. Love how the Westminster deals with assurance and 

One thing I have found missing in this through the years is that the Gospel reconciles us to God and his will. It restores our relationship with God as a Father and Child. 

WCF chapter Of the Assurance of Grace and Salvation

1. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favour of God and estate of salvation,a which hope of theirs shall perish:b yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love him in sincerity, endeavoring to walk in all good conscience before him, may in this life be certainly assured that they are in a state of grace,c and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.d

a. Deut 29:19; Job 8:13-14; Micah 3:11; John 8:41. • b. Mat 7:22-23. • c. 1 John 2:3; 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24; 5:13. • d. Rom 5:2, 5.

2. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion, grounded upon a fallible hope;a but an infallible assurance of faith, founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,b the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,c the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God:d which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.e

a. Heb 6:11, 19. • b. Heb 6:17-18. • c. 2 Cor 1:12; 2 Pet 1:4-5, 10-11; 1 John 2:3; 3:14. • d. Rom 8:15-16. • e. Eph 1:13-14; 4:30; 2 Cor 1:21-22.

3. This infallible assurance doth not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties before he be partaker of it:a yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation, in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.b And therefore it is the duty of everyone to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure;c that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience,d the proper fruits of this assurance: so far is it from inclining men to looseness.e

a. Psa 88 throughout; Psa 77:1-12; Isa 50:10; Mark 9:24; 1 John 5:13. • b. 1 Cor 2:12; Eph 3:17-19; Heb 6:11-12; 1 John 4:13. • c. 2 Pet 1:10. • d. Rom 5:1-2, 5; 14:17; 15:13; Eph 1:3-4; Psa 4:6-7; 119:32. • e. Psa 130:4; Rom 6:1-2; 8:1, 12; 2 Cor 7:1; Titus 2:11-12, 14; 1 John 1:6-7; 2:1-2; 3:2-3.

4. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it; by falling into some special sin, which woundeth the conscience, and grieveth the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation; by God’s withdrawing the light of his countenance, and suffering even such as fear him to walk in darkness and to have no light:a yet are they never utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may in due time be revived,b and by the which, in the meantime, they are supported from utter despair.c

a. Psa 31:22; 51:8, 12, 14; 77:1-10; 88 throughout; Song 5:2-3, 6; Isa 50:10; Mat 26:69-72; Eph 4:30-31. • b. Job 13:15; Psa 51:8, 12; 73:15; Isa 50:10; Luke 22:32; 1 John 3:9. • c. Psa 22:1; 88 throughout; Isa 54:7-10; Jer 32:40; Micah 7:7-9.


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## BarbaraDyer (Jan 2, 2022)

Not that my experience amounts to much, but I was unsaved in a Biblical church for over ten years. I had strong conviction of sin and was very concerned about my salvation. But I kept looking to my works and the quality of my repentance to merit my salvation. I kept seeking God and through Romans 3-6 and Galatians 3-6, along with some Spurgeon thrown in, I put my faith genuinely in Christ alone. It's a narrow door with a narrow way. If God is convicting you, seek Him. Don't stop until you're sure you've laid hold of Christ.


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## De Jager (Jan 2, 2022)

To be honest I think it comes down to not understanding the doctrine of Justification by Faith alone.

Instinctively we want to contribute to our salvation or at least believe that we are in control of the process. For me, not being raised with the doctrines of grace, I did not understand that God was sovereign in salvation. That was my first problem. My next problem, was in trying to qualify myself for grace. My next problem after that was not understanding that God loves saving sinners and that it is a delight to him - I saw him as a harsh man, reaping where he sowed not. And related to that, my last problem (that I can think of right now) was that I did not understand that God's covenantal promises were made to me being a child of Christians

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