# Anybody at the Strange Fire Conference?



## SynodOfDort (Oct 17, 2013)

Is anyone on the PB @ the Strange Fire Conference? I really wanted to go, but we were not able to make it  Does it look like it will be worth it to get it on DVD? I am a recovering Charismatic, and I thought it sounded great. Thanks!


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## augustacarguy (Oct 17, 2013)

You can stream it live at tmstrangefire.com.


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## SynodOfDort (Oct 17, 2013)

augustacarguy said:


> You can stream it live at tmstrangefire.com.



Thanks so much!


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## augustacarguy (Oct 18, 2013)

You're welcome.


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## SolaSaint (Oct 18, 2013)

Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)

I hear Mark Driscoll was there.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 18, 2013)

Mark Driscoll is a 4 year-old.


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## Gforce9 (Oct 18, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Mark Driscoll is a 4 year-old.



Again and again M.D. displays behavior unbecoming a minister of the Gospel. 4-year old is being generous...............


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## SynodOfDort (Oct 19, 2013)

SolaSaint said:


> Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)
> 
> I hear Mark Driscoll was there.



What a way to give a good name for Christianity. Seattle Times is going to be _all_ over this in tomorrow morning's newspaper 




Gforce9 said:


> Backwoods Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Mark Driscoll is a 4 year-old.
> ...



May I ask out of my eternal ignorance, was has Driscoll done before? I was only introduced to him through his _Real Marriage_ book.


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## SolaSaint (Oct 19, 2013)

I'm sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread. Back to the Conference, I could not watch from work, does anyone have any good word on the last two days?


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## JimmyH (Oct 19, 2013)

SolaSaint said:


> I'm sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread. Back to the Conference, I could not watch from work, does anyone have any good word on the last two days?



I only saw Pastor MacArthur last night iFriday) and I thought he was on target throughout. His opening prayer was quite edifying to me. When the media becomes available, which they announced it would be ASAP, I will be taking advantage of it.


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## SynodOfDort (Oct 19, 2013)

JimmyH said:


> SolaSaint said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sorry, didn't mean to derail this thread. Back to the Conference, I could not watch from work, does anyone have any good word on the last two days?
> ...



A couple of the messages were recorded and posted on "News in Focus" here, here, and here.


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## SinnerSavedByChrist (Oct 19, 2013)

Indeed Josh, the all the Particular Baptists who do not follow the RPW could learn what Strange fire is... but no doubt they will have their explanations against the Regulative reading of Leviticus 10:1-3.


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## JimmyH (Oct 20, 2013)

Pastor MacArthur is preaching on Matthew 7:21 at 10:30 Pacific time this morning. At the strange fire c0nfrence site here .Live stream.


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## Marrow Man (Oct 20, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Mark Driscoll is a 4 year-old.



My daughter will be 4 in January. Take it back!!!


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## Weston Stoler (Oct 20, 2013)

Driscoll makes me ashamed to live in seattle most days.


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## Andres (Oct 21, 2013)

SynodOfDort said:


> SolaSaint said:
> 
> 
> > Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)
> ...



For one thing, he authored that book.


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## augustacarguy (Oct 21, 2013)

SynodOfDort said:


> SolaSaint said:
> 
> 
> > Mark Driscoll 'Crashes' John MacArthur's Strange Fire Conference? (PHOTOS)
> ...



in my opinion, the worst case of error for Driscoll is the clean bill of theological health he gave to TD Jakes at Elephant a Room II.


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## reform1509 (Oct 23, 2013)

Wow! Did MD speak at the conference? Did he draw attention to himself?


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## R Harris (Oct 23, 2013)

Joel McDurmon wrote a critique of the conference on the American Vision website. Here is the link to his article:

Reckless Fire: MacArthur


As you can see, he blasts MacArthur pretty good for the sweeping assertions he made.


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## Pilgrim (Oct 23, 2013)

R Harris said:


> Joel McDurmon wrote a critique of the conference on the American Vision website. Here is the link to his article:
> 
> Reckless Fire: MacArthur
> 
> ...



Well, McDurmon has also written that he can find no fault with Federal Vision theology.

That being said, MacArthur has been known to make his share of sweeping assertions. He's certainly not alone in that regard, but he has a larger platform than most. Unfortunately, that tendency sometimes turns off people and understandably so, even when he has a point. But the "moderate" charismatics or whatever who are crying foul are somewhat akin to moderate mslms who never speak out against violent jihadists. Like it or not, the Word of Faith heresy is perhaps the most visible manifestation of charismaticism today, whether on TV or in anytown USA. your mileage may vary but that's how it tends to be here. And it has been exported to Latin America and Africa where it has found a very receptive audience. (Conrad Mbewe spoke about this at the conference, and I have missionary friends who report the same.) Some "Reformed Charismatics" can't even bring themselves to question the legitimacy of things like Todd Bentley and the "Lakeland Revival!"

If anything, MacArthur's influence has waned somewhat in recent years with the rise of the "New Calvinism" among Baptists and with the decline of dispensationalism and with him generally being dismissed by many under 40 years of age as an old suited "fundamentalist." That this conference has gotten as much play as it has demonstrates the widespread concern with this theology and movement, in my opinion.


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## Pilgrim (Oct 23, 2013)

Additionally, where were the people who are crying foul now when Tope Koleoso made his inflammatory and contemptuous remarks at the Desiring God conference with regard to the "jolly little sermons" of cessationist ministers?


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## Sherwin L. (Oct 24, 2013)

reform1509 said:


> Wow! Did MD speak at the conference? Did he draw attention to himself?



Driscoll did not speak. He was in town for another conference and was only at Strange Fire to distribute his books. There was a followup CP article that seemed to soften the situation, so I don't think it was as contentious as first thought, but I still think it was a little foolish for him to show up.

Being that I followed Driscoll for a few years, I can't outright bash his theology, but it does seem like he's passing himself off as the "victim" of Strange Fire attacks, when he's not, at least not primarily. I am rather surprised that Driscoll and the rest of the New Calvinist/Emergent Reformed crowd hasn't caught onto really thinking cessationism through. MacArthur's last message of SF, titled "An Appeal to My Continuationist Friends" was an excellent hermeneutical summation of cessationist thought.


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## SinnerSavedByChrist (Oct 24, 2013)

Sherwin L. said:


> reform1509 said:
> 
> 
> > Wow! Did MD speak at the conference? Did he draw attention to himself?
> ...


*Driscoll Lied* about his involvement at Grace Community Church. He tweets "They confiscated my books" when there is VIDEO PROOF that He said to them "it's a gift from me to you". Or else the Security guards were kindly carrying his books back to his car for Driscoll. *Public Liar. Not good for a gospel preacher. Not good. No repentance as of yet.*

See this links: 
Mark Driscoll at the Strange Fire Conference - YouTube
https://twitter.com/PastorMark/status/391269038057619457
Instagram


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 24, 2013)

The audio of the conference is now available. 

Strange Fire Conference


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## Jerusalem Blade (Oct 24, 2013)

Thanks for that link, Benjamin!


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## Semper Fidelis (Oct 25, 2013)

Part of me has been conflicted over this whole "controversy" because I believe dispensationalism is probably on par with the broad charismatic movement in terms of the damage it has done to Christianity. That said, the thing I hear the most, in terms of criticsm, is that the conference overreached and failed to make distinctions between the Benny Hinns and other Charismatics.

OK, let's agree it might have but I have a simple question: Can anyone think of anything of long lasting good that has come from the Charismatic movement? I'm not asking if there are things that are happening that are good from Churches that hold to some Charismatic teachings. Charismatic Churches are the inheritors of historical Chrisitanity and so one can envision things that are happening in those Churches that are still touching orthodox doctrines.

What I'm asking is, from the basic tenets of what Charismatic thought has _added_ to historical theology, can someone point me to the _positive_ contribution it has made to Chrsitianity?


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 25, 2013)

I have listened to 5 of the lectures (McArthur twice, Lawson, Sproul, and Mbewe) of the Strange Fire conference as well as the first Q/A session. There is some good things here, but Steve Lawson's Calvin lecture was very poor in my estimation. The Conrad Mbewe lecture on the state of the Christian church in sub-Saharan Africa is a must listen for all Christians. His statement that most of what passes for "Christianity" in sub-Saharan Africa is against the Gospel and against the witness of the Bible should give us all pause. 

Also Steve Lawson makes an absurd correlation in the Q/A between Post-Millennialism and the "Dominionism" of the New Apostolic Reformation. 

One more thing. Listening to the lectures has starkly marked out how much difference covenantal Presbyterianism is from the general hermeneutics of McArthur, Lawson, Johnson, et al.


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## Sherwin L. (Oct 25, 2013)

Don't know if anyone saw this yet. Mark Driscoll issued a public invitation for MacArthur to attend his Resurgence conference:
See you in Seattle, Pastor John MacArthur? | The Resurgence


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Oct 25, 2013)

Having almost no background in Pentecostal worship, etc... I decided to do some research. Found this video of a Pentecostal (UPC) church near me in Mississippi on Youtube. Can someone who has some experience with this kind of thing verify this as "normal"? 

[video=youtube;215C-tadRmk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=215C-tadRmk[/video]


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## Sherwin L. (Oct 25, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Having almost no background in Pentecostal worship, etc... I decided to do some research. Found this video of a Pentecostal (UPC) church near me in Mississippi on Youtube. Can someone who has some experience with this kind of thing verify this as "normal"?
> 
> [video=youtube;215C-tadRmk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=215C-tadRmk[/video]



I've never worshipped in a Pentecostal service either, but it seems like this probably trends a little more to the excessive side of the Charismatic movement. Generally, the convulsing/moving around wildly kind of thing is characteristic of revival meetings... it's not as bad as some of the freaky stuff that went on with the Toronto Blessing, but it's certain within the sphere of Strange Fire targets.


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## Stephen L Smith (Oct 25, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Steve Lawson's Calvin lecture was very poor in my estimation.



Why?


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## mossy (Oct 25, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Having almost no background in Pentecostal worship, etc... I decided to do some research. Found this video of a Pentecostal (UPC) church near me in Mississippi on Youtube. Can someone who has some experience with this kind of thing verify this as "normal"?
> 
> [video=youtube;215C-tadRmk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=215C-tadRmk[/video]



I attended Assembly of God and Foursquare churches for close to 30 years and never saw anything even close to that. If fact the truth is that in most AG and Foursquare churches you will consistently hear Arminian theology but rarely see any exercising of the gifts of the spirit. I am sure there are exceptions. 
Terry


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## Andres (Oct 25, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Having almost no background in Pentecostal worship, etc... I decided to do some research. Found this video of a Pentecostal (UPC) church near me in Mississippi on Youtube. Can someone who has some experience with this kind of thing verify this as "normal"?
> 
> [video=youtube;215C-tadRmk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=215C-tadRmk[/video]



I disagree with those who say this is NOT typical of a Pentecostal service. I was saved into a Pentecostal church and spent my first 8 years of Christianity in Pentecostalism. At one point I was even pursuing becoming a minister in the Pentecostal Church of God. This video is very typical of all the Pentecostalism that I was around. Dancing, shouting, running the aisles, weeping, shaking, etc were all very commonplace in our services. The only thing I can't recall ever seeing was the guy falling over the other guy. Now I do have to say, I don't mean this happened every single week, but it would happen maybe once every six weeks. Like the video says, when it did happen it was considered a really "powerful" and "anointed" service. Lastly, lest anyone think my church and denomination were some wacko, fringe group of Pentecostalism, were were actually fairly conservative for Pentecostals, as my pastor and church rejected the charismania such as Benny Hinn and the Toronto Blessing stuff.


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## SolaSaint (Oct 26, 2013)

Semper Fidelis said:


> can someone point me to the positive contribution it has made to Chrsitianity?



At the top of my list is Jan Crouch's hair and the furniture on the TBN set.


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## JimmyH (Oct 26, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Having almost no background in Pentecostal worship, etc... I decided to do some research. Found this video of a Pentecostal (UPC) church near me in Mississippi on Youtube. Can someone who has some experience with this kind of thing verify this as "normal"?


 The Assemblies of God Pentecostal Church I began attending in 1986 was not quite that extreme but not far off. It was a rather large congregation, perhaps 100 people, and some few had the 'gifts' of tongues and one woman in particular of prophesy. She was also fond of dancing up and down the aisles. The speaking in unknown tongues was a regular occurrence and quite annoying to me. The prophesy was also fairly regular, interrupting the pastor with outbursts and not in the sense of interpreting the gibberish of the tongue speakers.

I had begun going to this Church in my 36th year, having been saved through the Holy Spirit enlightening the eyes of my understanding in reading the Scriptures alone in my studio apartment. I resolved upon attending Church to attend for 3 months like it or not. The congregation had the aforementioned 'gifts' but lacked the gift of hospitality/charity. In the 3 months I attended I don't think one person ever offered the right hand of fellowship. I moved over to a Bible believing Baptist Church when my 3 month commitment was ended.


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## SinnerSavedByChrist (Oct 26, 2013)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Having almost no background in Pentecostal worship, etc... I decided to do some research. Found this video of a Pentecostal (UPC) church near me in Mississippi on Youtube. Can someone who has some experience with this kind of thing verify this as "normal"?


I can testify that Hillsong Australia, or your typical Assemblies of God (AOG) church in Australia is *nothing like this.* There are ofcourse pento/charo churches in Australia that are incredibly "mad". 

So there IS a baby in the bathwater, contrary to Mr Phil Johnson.


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## ZackF (Oct 26, 2013)

Mrs F. used to be Pentecostal back in the day. I showed the above video and she said, "that brings back memories." The guy in black shirt looks like he is doing a raindance. Since we have a God of order, I would think the Spirit could move everyone in unison...at least the Electric Slide or something?


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## mathias (Nov 17, 2013)

I listened through most of the lectures and got exactly what I excpected. No real discussion going on, a lot of generalisations and caricatures, but of course a lot of good information as well. A classic Mac Arthur event not different in tone to his sermons on baptism or eschatology.

One of the more amusing moments was Mac Arthur saying the calvinistic charismatics would not be approved by Calvin for calling themselves that, said the calvinistic dispensational premillennial credobaptist.


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## Bill The Baptist (Nov 17, 2013)

The two presentations by Justin Peters were the best at the conference, In my humble opinion.


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