# Required seminary readings?



## 3John2 (Feb 24, 2007)

As someone who is NOT attending a seminary I was wondering does anyone know what Systematics are being read at what seminaries? I believe Southern Baptist (Mohlers school) is using Grudems does anyone know what the others are using? Also for those of you who ARE students do you mind sharing like what books are required reading for you all?


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## daveb (Feb 24, 2007)

In my Intro. to Reformed Theology course I'm reading and journaling Calvin's Institutes.


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## larryjf (Feb 24, 2007)

I would highly recommend these...

Robert Reymond's A New Systematic Theology.
Calvin's Institutes.
Louis Berkhof's Systematic Theology.

And i think that RTS uses these books for their systematic theology.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

3John2 said:


> I believe Southern Baptist (Mohlers school) is using Grudems...



Really! I find that very interesting.


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## Romans922 (Feb 24, 2007)

At RTS I believe we use: Berkhof, Calvin's Institutes, Reymond, and Shedd.


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## 3John2 (Feb 24, 2007)

Perhaps I'm wrong but that's what I was told 2 1/2 or 3 years ago that they were using. My friend had recommended I start out with either Grudem's or Berkhof's. I've been doing some really heavy (in terms of time spent) reading & I'm using Grudem's in addition to books my pastor recommends. Currently I'm about halfway through Mathison's "Shape of Sola Scriptura" & Douglas "Mother Kirk". I tend to read about 2 books every 10 days or so. I'm just curious as to what you all that are in the seminaries are using/studying. I have considered buying Reymonds as I've actually seen it in my local bookstore which was a shock in itself.


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## Archlute (Feb 24, 2007)

Lots of:
Bavink
Berkhof
Calvin
Turretin
Witsius
(Hey, these are all continental fellows!?!)



Selections from:
Ames
Gaffin
Hodge
Luther
Owen
Reymond
Warfield

and various modern RC, EO, Anglican, Lutheran, etc. theologians _ad nauseum_ 

We get a very wide exposure in systematics, but I do think that something is lost in such a broad and fast paced reading schedule. I'd much rather sit down with a few old, orthodox divines (more _Puritans_, please...), and really digest them well. I guess each approach has its benefits, and after graduation I'm sure I'll have more opportunity to focus my reading.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

3John2 said:


> Perhaps I'm wrong but that's what I was told 2 1/2 or 3 years ago that they were using. My friend had recommended I start out with either Grudem's or Berkhof's. I've been doing some really heavy (in terms of time spent) reading & I'm using Grudem's in addition to books my pastor recommends. Currently I'm about halfway through Mathison's "Shape of Sola Scriptura" & Douglas "Mother Kirk". I tend to read about 2 books every 10 days or so. I'm just curious as to what you all that are in the seminaries are using/studying. I have considered buying Reymonds as I've actually seen it in my local bookstore which was a shock in itself.



And what did you think of Grudem?


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## 3John2 (Feb 24, 2007)

What I've read so far I've liked. I'm still not even 1/2 way through though. I DO love the fact that he has a bibliography at the end of each chapter to OTHER systematics etc so that's cool because he'll mention people like Berkhof, Hodge, etc. Of course I know many here might not like his doctrine on baptism or the charismata but the other chapters are REALLY good so far. I guess what I like is he is VERY accessible to the layman. I've actually heard of several YOUTH groups that have formed study groups that are going through that. That's pretty neat when you can have youth being THAT involved in studying.


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## Archlute (Feb 24, 2007)

3John2 said:


> I guess what I like is he is VERY accessible to the layman. I've actually heard of several YOUTH groups that have formed study groups that are going through that. That's pretty neat when you can have youth being THAT involved in studying.



Grudem's work is very good for this sort of thing. His work was the first systematic that I had ever read, and even after these years of further study, I still really enjoy his work. I find that when people new to Reformed Christianity begin asking theological questions, I most often refer them to Grudem. He's reformed in most of his presentations (having studied at WTS), he has a gift for both clarifying and simplifying deep theological issues for the layman, as well as showing the practical application of these doctrines, and his annotated bibliography that he cross references _is_ a really great tool.

You have to have a much greater level of language comprehension and historical background in order to understand some of the stuff by Turretin, Bavink, and Co. Those to whom I've given Grudem's material have told me that they have been helped by it a great deal.


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## Ivan (Feb 24, 2007)

I think I'm going to give him a read.


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## larryjf (Feb 25, 2007)

As the question is about what systematic theologies are being read in seminaries, i thought that i would point out a few who use Grudem. He is very good and accessible. The only thing that i don't like are his beliefs on baptism and gifts...especially gifts because he seems to redefine what the gifts are and then state that they still exist. So really, when he says that prophecy exists he does not mean in the sense of "Thus saith the Lord..."

Anyway, back to some of the seminaries that use him...

Columbia Evangelical Seminary
Erskine Theological Seminary
Moody Bible Institute


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## 3John2 (Feb 25, 2007)

I've actually put some thought into possibly attending the seminary where Grudem teaches at. I guess I liked his ST that much. Like I mentioned those 2 issues are the ones where most will disagree yet as you listed several seminaries are using it nonetheless.


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## 3John2 (Mar 6, 2007)

Westminster CA has a recommended reading list for this contemplating attending. Pretty neat. Won't be attending though as it's cost prohibitive.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 6, 2007)

Get a book on logic and read it. 

Find a good book on philosophy and/or the history of philosophy. You will be amazed at how this improves your understanding of theology. 

Also read Frame's Doctrine of the Knowledge of God.


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## Puritan Sailor (Mar 6, 2007)

Romans922 said:


> At RTS I believe we use: Berkhof, Calvin's Institutes, Reymond, and Shedd.



Also Bavinck. 

And several excerpts from Grudem, Pannenberg, Barth, Warfeild, and Aquinas, probably much more too but I remember these off the top of my head.


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## panicbird (Mar 6, 2007)

Draught Horse said:


> Get a book on logic and read it.
> 
> Find a good book on philosophy and/or the history of philosophy. You will be amazed at how this improves your understanding of theology.



What books on logic, philosophy, and the history of philosophy would you recommend?


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## polemic_turtle (Mar 7, 2007)

I recall Jacob saying Rushdoony heartily recommended Gordon Clark's "Thales to Dewey"; Dr. Bahnsen primarily used W. G. T. Jones' History of Philosophy(5vol) in his lectures( they're good and best purchased used ); lastly, I've read that Frederick Copleston's History of Philosophy excels both in size and quality(9vol). He was a Catholic seminary professor who debated Bertrand Russell & A.J. Ayer on BBC radio in his day. I wouldn't want to learn his apologetic approach( it didn't work on Russell ), but he obviously knew his stuff.

Dr. Bahnsen used and recommended Irvining Copi's Introduction to Logic. Wow, what a big book dat is. 770 pages. Well, then...

Hope this helps. Look on eBay or the used sections of Amazon or Froogle for Jones' books; they can be had for $10-$15 each if you look long enough.


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## JKLeoPCA (Mar 7, 2007)

http://www.wts.edu/admissions/readlist.html

Here is the list from Westminster. The Systematics are towards the bottom.


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## 3John2 (Mar 7, 2007)

Thanks for that info guys. I really appreciate that. I've got to get my list & start marking off the stuff I'm reading. That's all in addition to attempting to read through the bible 4 times this year.


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## RamistThomist (Mar 7, 2007)

Bertrand Russell's History of Western Philosophy is really good, if you can get past his biases. It is a much cheaper purchase than Jones, but is less thorough. He is an awesome writer, though.

Copi and Cohen is the standard logic test. Knowing this will help you out. Most young Reformians entering seminary know a lot of church history and stuff (I am not knocking it. I was a history major) but little on worldview, logic, and ethics. This provides a much needed balancing perspective to the deal.

I guess it goes back to Frame vs. Muller/Wells on the importance of philosophy or church history.


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## staythecourse (Mar 7, 2007)

*Southern and my church*

Southern uses Grudem as you say and I can't agree with some of his charismatic ideas.

My church uses the New Systematic Theology of the Christian Faith by Reymond.


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## Romans922 (Mar 7, 2007)

Frame = bad


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## RamistThomist (Mar 7, 2007)

I have been hearing that mantra for a year and a half. Still waiting on someone to back it up. There was the Hart debate...


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## Dieter Schneider (Mar 7, 2007)

Colin Brown Philosophy & The Christian Faith (IVP) is easy to follow


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## RamistThomist (Mar 7, 2007)

Dieter Schneider said:


> Colin Brown Philosophy & The Christian Faith (IVP) is easy to follow



That was one that I had wanted to pick up for a long time but didn't. I ended up reading Tarnas (don't know if I would recommend him), Russell, and listened to about 1/3 of Bahnsen's lectures on philosophy.


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## KMK (Mar 7, 2007)

Charles Hodge does not seem to be popular. Where does Hodge stack up in the conventional wisdom of today's theologians?


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## C. Matthew McMahon (Mar 7, 2007)

Hodge is too Reformed for the "reformed."


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