# Covenant Renewal Worship



## Romans922

What is the idea behind Cov. Renewal Services?

Is this getting too much like FV or is this Biblical to place more emphasis on Lord's Supper than on Preaching/Reading of Word?

What are we to think of this?


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## Civbert

Assuming that covenant renewal worship does put more emphasis on the Lords Supper than the preaching of the Word. But I expect some will disagree with that position. The Lords Supper is meaningless with the Word, and neglect of the Word is a sin.


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## RamistThomist

The covenant renewal services I have been in have sermons that easily reach 45 minutes, and even then the pastor really wants to go longer. That could be neglecting the word, but I know a few "established" conservative presbyterian churches that dare not exceed 30 minute sermons.


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## Coram Deo

ok, I told everyone that I would be lurking around and here is one of my lurking post... I just could not resist a reply..  

I see nothing wrong with covenant renewal worship. It does not deny the regulative principle, but in fact strengths the regulative worship. Who ever said that it comes close to federal vision is wrong.

First off.. In covenant renewal worship, the word is not neglected or belittled, but the Lord's Supper is elevated since it does spiritually fed us and is a visual view of the gospel. After all It is the Word AND Sacrament. Sermons tend to be anywhere from 45 mins to over an hour in covenant renewal worship...

Secondly, covenant renewal worship is the biblically defined set liturgy of worship in the covenant of grace, as defined by scripture. It tells us that not only are the elements of worship important but also the order of worship is important. And that the New Covenant Worship is continued from the Old Covenant in many ways. Jesus' death abolished all animal sacrifice (Hebrews 10:4) but it did not abolish all sacrifice. We are to offer ourselves as "Living Sacrifices" to God (Romans 12:1). The sacrifices of the Old Testament not only point forward to the atoning work of Christ on the cross, they also point forward to our worship as living sacrifices.

Leviticus chapter 9 gives us details of the order of sacrifice in worship services. They consist of the following...

Call to Worship - 

This expresses the truth that none of us can approach God unless he initiates the covenant with us.

Sin Offering - 

This is where we hear the laws of God and lament our sins and confess our sins corporately, and of our need for forgiveness.

Burnt Offering - 

Or the Consecration, ascension offering. This represents the ascension of believers into the presence of God. In this way we show we belong wholly to the Lord. We will hear the Word of God read, we offer ourselves in prayer and praise to God, and we hear the sermon as the Lord speaks through the Pastor.

Peace Offering - 

Communion. Part of the animal was burned, part of it was waved before the Lord and then given to the worshipper to eat. The portion that was burned was called the Lord's good. This offering was unique in that it was the only one of the offerings in which the worshipper was permitted to eat a portion of it. In the peace offering the worshipper ate with God as an expression of deep love, trust and fellowship. Around the table of the Lord there is peace and assurance of his love for us. So it is that the covenant memorial of the Lord's Supper is offered to us by Christ, our peace offering, and he communes with us through it. As part of the regular Lord's Day worship, God gives us the privilege of sharing a covenant meal with him.

Commission - 

Aaron and Moses concluded the service by blessing the people with God's benediction. As we leave the assembly of the saints, we need to know that we are not leaving God behind.


This is the liturgy the bible gives us to worship God and the order that it should follow. It will only consist of the elements of worship that God has prescribed along with a covenantal dialogue between God and Man within the worship service.

This is covenant renewal worship in a nutshell. Let us not undermind the WORD and SACRAMENT of worship and let us bring the Sacrament of the Lord's Supper back to its rightful place along side the Word in worship.

Michael


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## bookslover

Romans922 said:


> What is the idea behind Cov. Renewal Services?
> 
> Is this getting too much like FV or is this Biblical to place more emphasis on Lord's Supper than on Preaching/Reading of Word?
> 
> What are we to think of this?



Yes, definition, please! What is "covenant renewal worship"? Can't intelligently vote in a poll about a subject I know nothing about.


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## Theoretical




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## Davidius

bookslover said:


> Yes, definition, please! What is "covenant renewal worship"? Can't intelligently vote in a poll about a subject I know nothing about.



There is an "I don't know" option. That's the one I chose.


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## bradofshaw

I don't have any problem with weekly communion, but I'm getting the idea there's more to it than that from your post.


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## Augusta

I voted no. Not just because of the RPW but because God himself has covenanted with me not the other way around. He has saved me with his own right arm and is able to keep me and will not let go. Praise God!!


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## Coram Deo

Hasn't anyone read the definition I gave above...  

I did give a great explaination of it and defined it yet people are still asking what it is!

  

Michael


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## Romans922

Michael, 
You haven't really proved your definition. You can't really just flat out say, "Covenant renewal worship is biblical worship". You especially can't say this when you know many people disagree (especially on the Puritanboard). So why is this the biblical form of worship?

And one thing to remember is: we don't have sin, burnt, or peace offerings anymore. At least I don't think we do.


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## Romans922

Augusta said:


> I voted no. Not just because of the RPW but because God himself has covenanted with me not the other way around. He has saved me with his own right arm and is able to keep me and will not let go. Praise God!!



Would you say that in all the instance of Covenant renewing in the Bible that God renewed the Covenant or His people renewed it?

And did (whoever renewed) do it weekly or every Sabbath/Lord's Day or whenever there was unfaithfulness to the Covenant?

In our case, can there be unfaithfulness to the Covenant of Grace when satisfies said covenant in Christ?


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## Coram Deo

I thought I did...

Here is a quote from my Post:

Quote 
Covenant renewal worship is the biblically defined set liturgy of worship in the covenant of grace, as defined by scripture. It tells us that not only are the elements of worship important but also the order of worship is important. And that the New Covenant Worship is continued from the Old Covenant in many ways. Jesus' death abolished all animal sacrifice (Hebrews 10:4) but it did not abolish all sacrifice. We are to offer ourselves as "Living Sacrifices" to God (Romans 12:1). The sacrifices of the Old Testament not only point forward to the atoning work of Christ on the cross, they also point forward to our worship as living sacrifices.
End Quote





Romans922 said:


> Michael,
> You haven't really proved your definition. You can't really just flat out say, "Covenant renewal worship is biblical worship". You especially can't say this when you know many people disagree (especially on the Puritanboard). So why is this the biblical form of worship?
> 
> And one thing to remember is: we don't have sin, burnt, or peace offerings anymore. At least I don't think we do.


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## Romans922

thunaer said:


> I thought I did...
> 
> Here is a quote from my Post:
> 
> Quote
> Covenant renewal worship is the biblically defined set liturgy of worship in the covenant of grace, as defined by scripture. It tells us that not only are the elements of worship important but also the order of worship is important. And that the New Covenant Worship is continued from the Old Covenant in many ways. Jesus' death abolished all animal sacrifice (Hebrews 10:4) but it did not abolish all sacrifice. We are to offer ourselves as "Living Sacrifices" to God (Romans 12:1). The sacrifices of the Old Testament not only point forward to the atoning work of Christ on the cross, they also point forward to our worship as living sacrifices.
> End Quote



1) Jesus' death in Hebrews is saying that Christ's death we better than animal sacrficies (and abolishes the cermonial law). This kind of sacrifice is definitely not the same as Romans 12:1. Nor is Romans 12:1 referring to public worship where we are to sacrifice, but in all of life be holy and pleasing to God (this is only possible through Christ --> see Romans 1-11. 

2) This doesn't prove Covenant Renewal Worship to be true and right and biblical.

Reactions: Like 1


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## bradofshaw

Hey thunaer, is what you're describing as "covenant renewal worship" any different than the traditional reformed order of worship? Every OPC and PCA service I have been in has the same elements, except for weekly communion (which, I'm sure some churches in both denoms practice). I've never heard it referred to as covenant renewal though. 

Andrew, you asked about it, is there a distinctly different service labeled "covenant renewal" that you are thinking of, or is that just a catch phrase used to describe the traditional reformed order of worship? I'm not sure I've heard the phrase before.


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## Coram Deo

Every writing I have on covenant renewal describes what I mentioned... I am unsure if there is another type of covenant renewal other then I described.. And yes it is the traditional reformed order of worship taken from the sacrificial system of order of lev. 9 including the weekly communion that Calvin sought after.

Michael



bradofshaw said:


> Hey thunaer, is what you're describing as "covenant renewal worship" any different than the traditional reformed order of worship? Every OPC and PCA service I have been in has the same elements, except for weekly communion (which, I'm sure some churches in both denoms practice). I've never heard it referred to as covenant renewal though.
> 
> Andrew, you asked about it, is there a distinctly different service labeled "covenant renewal" that you are thinking of, or is that just a catch phrase used to describe the traditional reformed order of worship? I'm not sure I've heard the phrase before.


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## Romans922

bradofshaw said:


> Hey thunaer, is what you're describing as "covenant renewal worship" any different than the traditional reformed order of worship? Every OPC and PCA service I have been in has the same elements, except for weekly communion (which, I'm sure some churches in both denoms practice). I've never heard it referred to as covenant renewal though.
> 
> Andrew, you asked about it, is there a distinctly different service labeled "covenant renewal" that you are thinking of, or is that just a catch phrase used to describe the traditional reformed order of worship? I'm not sure I've heard the phrase before.



Michael seems to follow Covenant Renewal services, he could probably explain better without me having a bias against it.

We do not do it at Redeemer. 

Our service is geared around God and grace and gratefulness. God does something (grace), we respond in gratefulness and thanksgiving.


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## Romans922

Michael, I think you have attempted to show why you do it, but what does it mean (i think is what Brad is asking). And why is it different than what I just described, how most reformed churches organize their worship.


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## toddpedlar

Michael -

The phrase "Covenant Renewal Worship", I think, is generally associated with Jeffrey Meyers's book "The Lord's Service". When you say "covenant renewal worship services" are thus-and-so long, are we safe to assume that you are speaking of Meyers-inflected worship? Can you be more plain about your sources for "covenant renewal" as a definition?

Thanks,

Todd


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## Coram Deo

I should also note...

That with Covenant renewal worship, it is offering up our sacrifices to God. Our Sacrifices to God our are elements of worship and so every Sabbath our worship renews our covenant keeping with God. We offer up ourselves as living sacrifices through the elements of worship.

Our Sin Offering is our Confession of Sin we offer to God in Worship, and our laments.

Our Burnt Offering is our Sermon and the Word of God...

Our Peace Offering is the Lord's Supper

Since God calls us to worship, he initiates the worship by Calling us to Worship and we close with a benediction following Aaron and Moses example.

Michael


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## Coram Deo

I have never heard of Meyer's or his book....

I have a quite lengthy work by Eric Sanders titled "On Worship: Strength and Beauty in His Sanctuary"

He describes worship as Covenant Renewal Worship with a set liturgy from Lev. 9. He also explains why and how we worship. He also describes in the work everything I have already said....

Michael



toddpedlar said:


> Michael -
> 
> The phrase "Covenant Renewal Worship", I think, is generally associated with Jeffrey Meyers's book "The Lord's Service". When you say "covenant renewal worship services" are thus-and-so long, are we safe to assume that you are speaking of Meyers-inflected worship? Can you be more plain about your sources for "covenant renewal" as a definition?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Todd


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## Puritan Sailor

Augusta said:


> I voted no. Not just because of the RPW but because God himself has covenanted with me not the other way around. He has saved me with his own right arm and is able to keep me and will not let go. Praise God!!



 
With Christ as our perfect Mediator there is no further need for "covenant renewal."


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## RamistThomist

I responded to, or headed off the charge, that weekly communion de-emphasies the word. All the covenant renewal services I have been to have 45 minute plus sermons.

Also, I agree with Michael Horton that we should have weekly communion.


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## Pilgrim

thunaer said:


> I have never heard of Meyer's or his book....
> 
> I have a quite lengthy work by Eric Sanders titled "On Worship: Strength and Beauty in His Sanctuary"
> 
> He describes worship as Covenant Renewal Worship with a set liturgy from Lev. 9. He also explains why and how we worship. He also describes in the work everything I have already said....
> 
> Michael



This being said, then I think you and Andrew were talking past each other. What he probably has in mind with the question in the OP is Covenant Renewal Worship as advocated by Jeff Meyers and others. 

Also, if I'm not mistaken, Meyers views were influenced to a considerable extent by James B. Jordan.


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## wsw201

> Also, if I'm not mistaken, Meyers views were influenced to a considerable extent by James B. Jordan.



 Jordan was teaching this long ago when he was back in Tyler (or maybe even later). I'm not sure that Thunear is talking about the same thing.


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## MW

Covenant renewal worship tries to introduce an element of the history of salvation into the order of salvation. On the basis of the same method Romanists teach the Mass as a sacrifice. And if anyone has studied covenant renewal in Scripture they will know that sacrifice is part and parcel of it. The Lord's supper is not a sacrifice, but a commemoration of a sacrifice. We do not renew covenant in worship but renew our commitment to the covenant of grace as ratified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.


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## Augusta

Romans922 said:


> Would you say that in all the instance of Covenant renewing in the Bible that God renewed the Covenant or His people renewed it?
> 
> And did (whoever renewed) do it weekly or every Sabbath/Lord's Day or whenever there was unfaithfulness to the Covenant?
> 
> In our case, can there be unfaithfulness to the Covenant of Grace when satisfies said covenant in Christ?



It is my understanding that it was God who initiated all of the covenants. When Israel said "this we shall do" they were agreeing to the covenant. Of course they didn't keep it and couldn't just as we don't keep it today except "in Christ." Christ kept it perfectly for us. I think this whole covenant renewal fad is, as Armorbearer said, a kind of throwback to the popish mass at worst, or a renaming of already existing sacraments at best.


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## bookslover

armourbearer said:


> Covenant renewal worship tries to introduce an element of the history of salvation into the order of salvation. On the basis of the same method Romanists teach the Mass as a sacrifice. And if anyone has studied covenant renewal in Scripture they will know that sacrifice is part and parcel of it. The Lord's supper is not a sacrifice, but a commemoration of a sacrifice. We do not renew covenant in worship but renew our commitment to the covenant of grace as ratified by the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ.


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## Civbert

thunaer said:


> I should also note...
> 
> That with Covenant renewal worship, it is offering up our sacrifices to God. Our Sacrifices to God our are elements of worship and so every Sabbath our worship renews our covenant keeping with God. We offer up ourselves as living sacrifices through the elements of worship.
> 
> Our Sin Offering is our Confession of Sin we offer to God in Worship, and our laments.
> 
> Our Burnt Offering is our Sermon and the Word of God...
> 
> Our Peace Offering is the Lord's Supper
> 
> Since God calls us to worship, he initiates the worship by Calling us to Worship and we close with a benediction following Aaron and Moses example.
> 
> Michael



Christ is the sacrifice and offering. The Lev. system was pointing to what Christ has now completed. Ergo, no additional sacrifice is needed by us. We do not need to add anything to the work of Christ. "It is finished".

I don't see any biblical call for "renewal" of the covenant. Either you're in the covenant, or you're not. If you're in, you're in. Our worship is not "renewal of the covenant" but obedience to God. We worship and hear the word, and celebrate the Lords Supper (a memorial), because that is what God has commanded of us. Now because we need to "re-commit" ourselves, or someone get God to re-commit himself to us.


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## Romans922

Civbert said:


> Christ is the sacrifice and offering. The Lev. system was pointing to what Christ has now completed. Ergo, no additional sacrifice is needed by us. We do not need to add anything to the work of Christ. "It is finished".
> 
> I don't see any biblical call for "renewal" of the covenant. Either you're in the covenant, or you're not. If you're in, you're in. Our worship is not "renewal of the covenant" but obedience to God. We worship and hear the word, and celebrate the Lords Supper (a memorial), because that is what God has commanded of us. Now because we need to "re-commit" ourselves, or someone get God to re-commit himself to us.




Now that I think of it and the though of 'recommitting' oneself, this sounds an awful lot like baptists or charismatics.


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## KMK

Romans922 said:


> Now that I think of it and the though of 'recommitting' oneself, this sounds an awful lot like baptists or charismatics.



Or Presbyterians. (PCUSA) You shouldn't lump all baptists together on this any more than you should lump all Presbyterians together.


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## tewilder

Covenant renewal worship has its basis in the speculation that the Trinity is an eternal mutual sacrifice. Man, as the image of God, is homo sacrificans. Thus sacrifice is built into creation, and is more basic than the fall/redemption cycle.

Note that for Reformed covenant theology, the Covenant of Works is the basic framework that precedes the fall, and also shapes redemption, which takes the form of both active and passive obedience with respect to the Covenant of Works. For Covenant Renewal theology, this basic thing is the perpetual priesthood function. 

There are symbols built into creation (mountains, water, fire, robes, etc.) which have to do with a heaven/earth duality that is used in priestly sacrifice in terms of models on earth of heavenly realities. 

This requires a perpetual priesthood. This is a special priesthood, a continuing Levitical priesthood, separate from the "lay" people, which now ritually renews the covenant in temples. There is a weekly cycle of covenant renewal, that must be done by a member of this priesthood, so that the covenant does not lapse.

The symbolism we see in the Old Testament, then, is not primarily a foreshadowing of Christ's redemptive action in the future. That is, it is not primarily past foreshadowment of future fulfillment on a time axis, so that the shadow becomes obsolete when the reality arrives. Rather it is early modeling of heavenly reality, which is perpetual. In a secondary sense the OT foreshadows the future in that Christ will enact the same ritual, but not in a final way, because it still must be repeated every week.

The covenant renewal ritual is modeled on the Tabernacle/Temple. The first part of the service is The Entrance, when you come into the outer court of the Tabernacle. Then comes The Purification where you get to the laver in the outer court, and cleanse yourself of your sins so that you can approach God. Next in the service is The Ascension where the Levitical priest climbs Meredith Kline's mountain and ascends into heaven as mediator for the congregation. (See Meredith Kline's God, Heaven, and Har Magedon: A Covenantal Tale of Cosmos and Telos, and Images of the Spirit for the basis of this and other Covenant Renewal symbolism). This is the Holy Place where there is the table of showbread, the lampstand and the altar of incense. There might be a Tribute Offering here (i.e. you take the collection), though it seems optional. The final phase of the Covenant Renewal service is the Sacrifice of Peace, where the priest enters the Holy of Holies and conducts the ritual that renews the covenant, so that it does not lapse and the salvation of the people with it. Then the priest deliver God's blessing to the people in The Blessing which concludes the service.

All this is parallel to Romanism. Rome insists on a need for a continuing priesthood to conduct the sacrifice of the Mass and add to Christ's sacrifice. Covenant Renewal insists on a continuing priesthood to add to Christ's high priestly work. So it really is a blasphemy in a way parallel to what the mass is.

Note that Covenant Renewal is not some Baptistic rededication. It is priests renewing the covenant of which Christ is the mediator, because it sees that covenant as needing more mediation and renewal to keep it going.

Who teaches Covenant Renewal? Another name for it is the Federal Vision. This, in fact, is the main part of the Federal Vision.


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## Romans922

tewilder,
If we read Hebrews, hasn't Christ's priesthood just a little bit better than the Levitical priesthood. If this is so, then why the need for the continual Levitical priesthood which couldn't satisfy God?


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## tewilder

Romans922 said:


> tewilder,
> If we read Hebrews, hasn't Christ's priesthood just a little bit better than the Levitical priesthood. If this is so, then why the need for the continual Levitical priesthood which couldn't satisfy God?



So that the clergy can be higher than the common herd of Christians.


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## Romans922




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## Coram Deo

I know it has been alittle while since I responded on this topic. I wanted to research alittle more and dive alittle deeper into this issue on covenant renewal before I posted again...

After careful thought and reading I am willing to give up the idea behind new covenant sacrifices. Christ is our final sacrifice and we do not need to renew our covenant with God. I have come to believe that Romans 12, when talking about giving up ourselves as living sacrifices was a one time deal, it is not now and on going for the believer. I have also come to accept that we need not to renewal our covenant with God. Sorta like a Marriage Covenant.. We do not renew our covenant with our spouse through a second marriage ceremony.
So in light of all this, I deny and reject Covenant Renewal and Sacrifices within the New Covenant sense... but.....

I still believe that Lev. 9 and the Order of worship regarding the sacrifices are patterns of worship for all of the covenant of grace. Not the sacrifices themselves, but the pattern of worship that continues from the Old Covenant to the New Covenant and into Heavenly Worship. More described as Reformed Worship, with the set liturgy from the patterns of Lev. 9. Which includes the Lord's Supper every Lord's Day....

I hope this clears things up...

Michael





Civbert said:


> Christ is the sacrifice and offering. The Lev. system was pointing to what Christ has now completed. Ergo, no additional sacrifice is needed by us. We do not need to add anything to the work of Christ. "It is finished".
> 
> I don't see any biblical call for "renewal" of the covenant. Either you're in the covenant, or you're not. If you're in, you're in. Our worship is not "renewal of the covenant" but obedience to God. We worship and hear the word, and celebrate the Lords Supper (a memorial), because that is what God has commanded of us. Now because we need to "re-commit" ourselves, or someone get God to re-commit himself to us.


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