# Appropriateness of Women Speaking/Reading in Sabbath School



## Andres (May 9, 2015)

What are your thoughts regarding women speaking/reading during Sabbath school time? For example, is it appropriate during Sabbath school time for a woman to answer a question posed by the teacher? Is it appropriate for a woman to read a passage of Scripture out loud during Sabbath school? Let's say the context is that several men regularly do both of these, so the issue isn't having lay people read Scripture and answer questions during Sabbath school time, but the issue is specifically related to women's involvement. What say you?


----------



## lynnie (May 9, 2015)

If it's one of Phillip's four daughters who prophesied, it would be fine.


----------



## Jack K (May 9, 2015)

Your description of the class suggests that the activities mentioned are part of the learning process. It should be appropriate for any student allowed into the class to take part in that process.


----------



## Hamalas (May 10, 2015)

Exactly. There is clearly no exercise of authority. I don't see a problem.


----------



## Tim (May 10, 2015)

Can we interact with these verses?



> 1Co 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
> 1Co 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.


----------



## Bill The Baptist (May 10, 2015)

Tim said:


> Can we interact with these verses?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I am not sure that Paul had anything like Sabbath school in mind when he wrote these verses. The very concept of something like Sabbath school invites questions and open discussion.


----------



## Mindaboo (May 10, 2015)

I don't read Scripture in that setting. I'm not comfortable with it. I will join the discussion occasionally, but it's pretty rare. I'd rather sit and listen. Brad is fine with me joining in and contributing. I just don't.


----------



## Jeri Tanner (May 10, 2015)

Bill The Baptist said:


> Tim said:
> 
> 
> > Can we interact with these verses?
> ...



I agree here. Is a Sabbath/Sunday school included in what Paul means by "in the churches?" Is a classroom setting like Sunday school really any different than a class that might meet on another day of the week? Thorny questions that wouldn't trouble us if we didn't add extra biblical activities like Sunday school. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## TheOldCourse (May 10, 2015)

Jeri Tanner said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > Tim said:
> ...



That's definitely true, but many pastors and sessions (even Reformed ones) treat these things as little (if any) less necessary or valuable to the church member as public worship. If your church does not make a strong distinction here, does that affect how one should participate in it?


----------



## Ryan J. Ross (May 10, 2015)

"In the churches" may mean more than stated public worship. Otherwise, should we understand that men may ask other men questions during the service, but women may not?


----------



## MW (May 10, 2015)

Andres said:


> What are your thoughts regarding women speaking/reading during Sabbath school time?



What is "Sabbath school time" in terms of stated worship? If it is by human convention that the thing exists and functions, it is possible for human convention to appoint a woman to lead it.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (May 10, 2015)

Did SS replace catechism? Sunday school as we call it now bears little resemblance to the Sunday School Movement but did inter church SS classes get the idea from that? Adult classes followed the institution of classes for children?


----------



## Mushroom (May 10, 2015)

MW said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > What are your thoughts regarding women speaking/reading during Sabbath school time?
> ...


So, to clarify what appears to be somewhat obscure, does this mean that those Churches that have instituted "Sabbath school time" or "Sunday School" or whatever they call it, have done so by human convention, and are therefore guilty of the sin of Nadab and Abihu? And if so, should proper Reformed Christians leave such congregations?


----------



## Jeri Tanner (May 11, 2015)

Here's an article I wrote several years ago for an online children's ministry publication, "A Brief History of Sunday School." It was as accurate as I knew how to make it at the time, but I didn't understand much about Reformed church history. http://ministry-to-children.com/history-of-sunday-school/




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MW (May 11, 2015)

Mushroom said:


> So, to clarify what appears to be somewhat obscure,



It was a question, Mushroom. The obscurity comes from your attempt to turn my question into a statement.


----------



## kodos (May 11, 2015)

It is an intriguing thought to me that something like a "Sabbath School" for the congregation would be unbiblical or against the Spirit of the Lord's Day. Hopefully while not too divergent from the original question posed by Andrew, I'd love to explore this and get some thoughts in line with this since this has been brought up.

For those opposing such a thing - is it primarily because of the baggage introduced by the Sunday School movement? In our particular example the class is for the entire congregation as a whole (no separate class for children, etc.), is optional, is offered as a supplement to the two worship services we conduct, and is led by an elder of the church.

Since this was the first time I had heard a meaningful objection to this practice - I poked around and looked at the Westminster Directory of Public Worship's statement on "The Lord's Day" and it says the following:



> That what time is vacant, between or after the solemn meetings of the congregation in publick, be spent in reading, meditation, repetition of sermons; especially by calling their families to an account of what they have heard, and catechising of them, holy conferences, prayer for a blessing upon the publick ordinances, singing of psalms, visiting the sick, relieving the poor, and such like duties of piety, charity, and mercy, accounting the sabbath a delight.



I see a mention of "holy conferences", which (since our language has drifted perhaps a bit since the writing of the Directory) perhaps is more specifically talking about "conversations", but Webster's 1828 Dictionary (on the word conference) does mention instruction as well which tends to be more the goal of a modern day "conference".

Regardless of the particulars of the Directory, it wouldn't seem out of accordance with the Spirit of the Lord's Day to offer instruction in the Catechisms of our Church, and other Biblical Topics to help keep the Sanctification of the Lord's Day. Brothers and Sisters - we have found it to be a great challenge for many of God's People to keep the Lord's Day in our Day and Age, and so our purpose in these things as a Session has been particularly to bless people by having opportunities for them to avoid temptation and to keep the day full and rich in the Word. The Worship Services have supremacy, but we see these as mercy ministries and opportunities in particular for those new to the Reformed Faith to get a good grounding in the Standards of our Church.

That said - I'd love for everyone to poke holes in the practice and give Biblical and Confessional Grounds for why it would be unwise or wrong to do so. Moderators, please pull this to a separate thread if need be so that it doesn't pollute Andrew's original request.


----------



## NaphtaliPress (May 11, 2015)

The "lecture" often preceded the worship service; I'm thinking of for example, Scotland circa 1650s and lectures such as Durham on Revelation. I'm not aware though that in the lecture there was any q&a from the auditory and at that time I suspect you would not have women asking questions in public in any venue. Q&A interaction is more like catechism. As far as conference, it seems to be broad opportunities to gather for mutual edification of discussion but not formal. I say that but I'm not sure in principal though it wouldn't encompass a formal gathering such as the combination sermon/lectures puritans began on weekdays in the 1580s or thereabouts which were gatherings of ministers and the public. In any event, there is the question of Paul's injunction though and to get back to the question, I would think something formally called by the church falls under it. Does 'in the church' mean in the gathering of the church or "between the call to worship and the benediction"? ie during the public worship service proper only?


----------



## NaphtaliPress (May 11, 2015)

Thanks for the link. I was thinking it was post mid last century SS had evolved from the earlier purposes and SS became more a discipleship than evangelistic tool. My great granddad was very big on the old SS movement and I know he spoke at large rallies etc. He died in 1932.


Jeri Tanner said:


> Here's an article I wrote several years ago for an online children's ministry publication, "A Brief History of Sunday School." It was as accurate as I knew how to make it at the time, but I didn't understand much about Reformed church history. http://ministry-to-children.com/history-of-sunday-school/


http://ministry-to-children.com/history-of-sunday-school/


----------



## Jeri Tanner (May 11, 2015)

Just to throw this into the discussion, for most Christians (likely not on this board) the reality of Sunday school in their churches are classes generally taught by volunteers and lay people, with classes divided up by age or gender, using a variety of curriculum that is too often unsound, etc., and no catechism. That's my reference when I call the idea of Sunday school unbiblical; I'm sure Sunday/Sabbath school is very different in more thoroughly reformed churches though. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## MW (May 11, 2015)

> That what time is vacant, between or after the solemn meetings of the congregation in publick, be spent in reading, meditation, repetition of sermons; especially by calling their families to an account of what they have heard, and catechising of them, holy conferences, prayer for a blessing upon the publick ordinances, singing of psalms, visiting the sick, relieving the poor, and such like duties of piety, charity, and mercy, accounting the sabbath a delight.



This leaves much room for religious exercises outside of the stated worship of the church. The question is whether such exercises should come under the direct leadership of the church or whether they should be left to the discretion of the individual families. If church oversight is expected to involve itself in these exercises there is no reason why a woman should be excluded from the natural role she would assume in her own home, including speaking to the children about the things of God.


----------



## Curt (May 12, 2015)

Great discussion.


----------

