# Women praying in church



## ExGentibus

This is a concern I have had recently since attending a Baptist church in my city: during worship, they allow women to stand up and say a public prayer. Everybody, including the pastor, bow their head and then say amen.
Beside the regulative principle and the legitimacy of the practice of free prayers, it is my understanding that allowing women to say public prayers in church is unbiblical.

The pastor is conservative on other issues, does not allow women to preach, and is sympathetic to the doctrines of grace, leaning towards MacArthur and Piper.

How should I conduct myself when a woman stands up to say a prayer? Should I bow my head and say amen like everybody else? Especially, I think, since the pastor does it and I am under his authority, though (as a Presbyterian) I am not a member.


----------



## Mindaboo

At our former PCA church we had corporate prayer and women usually prayed and most of the men were silent. I was a new Christian and part of me wanted to pray out loud, but I could never bring myself to do it. I learned overtime that I shouldn't be doing it. It caused me to stumble my way through the worship service. I finally ended up walking out of worship during that prayer time. I didn't think I should be participating. My husband came with me and a few other people who believed it was sin. 

My husband and many other men went to our session, but it never changed. They believed they were right and we were wrong. 

Maybe you could just walk out during those times. Have you considered speaking with an elder or your pastor? 

Thankfully the church we attend now doesn't open up prayer to the congregation. Our pastor knows he is responsible for what is happening during worship and only he and the elders pray. I am thankful.


----------



## Classical Presbyterian

Maybe I'm a wild-eyed crazy man, but I'll pray with anyone, anywhere...even in worship, as long as it is done in the name of Jesus!


----------



## CDM

In 1 Timothy 2:8, Paul addressing the proper order in the Church writes:



> I will therefore that *men* [males] pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.


----------



## Classical Presbyterian

CDM said:


> In 1 Timothy 2:8, Paul addressing the proper order in the Church writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will therefore that *men* [males] pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
Click to expand...


And so they should!


----------



## puritanpilgrim

> I will therefore that men [males] pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.



are you kidding?




> who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth 1 tim 2:4



should I write (males) in there too?


----------



## Marrow Man

Here is a short article by Warfield on the matter.


----------



## Knoxienne

I'm thankful that I don't have to speak or pray out loud during the service. I talk too much during the week as it is.


----------



## Marrow Man

puritanpilgrim said:


> I will therefore that men [males] pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> are you kidding?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth 1 tim 2:4
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> should I write (males) in there too?
Click to expand...


I don't think Toby is "disagreeing", per se; he is just saying that the verse is not "exclusive" toward men.

The Warfield article above, however, addresses this issue.


----------



## Whitefield

Classical Presbyterian said:


> Maybe I'm a wild-eyed crazy man, but I'll pray with anyone, anywhere...even in worship, as long as it is done in the name of Jesus!


----------



## Blueridge Believer

I've been in churches where women were called on to pray. I've always thought that in accordance with 1 Cor. they should cover thier head though if they're called on.


----------



## Whitefield

CDM said:


> In 1 Timothy 2:8, Paul addressing the proper order in the Church writes:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I will therefore that *men* [males] pray every where, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting.
Click to expand...


The word _monon_ (only) is not present in the verse.


----------



## ExGentibus

Marrow Man said:


> Here is a short article by Warfield on the matter.


Thanks, I know that article (in fact I even translated it for my website) and it is very helpful.

So, the point would really be the headcovering?

Last sunday I was the only man with the head not bowed, but I am open to correction on this.


----------



## Idelette

The issue is not simply praying with other brothers and sisters in Christ, but it is actually _LEADING_ the congregation in prayer and it is done in corporate worship. In my humble opinion, that is _UNBIBLICAL_!

Scripture makes it very clear throughout, from establishing the priesthood through 1 Timothy; that leading in corporate worship is designated only to the head's of households and thus men!

1 Corin 14: 34 "The women are to keep silent in the churches; for they are not permitted to speak, but are subject themselves, just as the law also says...."

1 Tim 2:11-12 "A woman must quietly receive instruction with entire submissiveness. But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet."


----------



## Skyler

I see. So the problem most people have, then, isn't that the woman is praying, but that she is leading the congregation in prayer?

That makes more sense.


----------



## Marrow Man

ExGentibus said:


> Marrow Man said:
> 
> 
> 
> Here is a short article by Warfield on the matter.
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks, I know that article (in fact I even translated it for my website) and it is very helpful.
> 
> So, the point would really be the headcovering?
> 
> Last sunday I was the only man with the head not bowed, but I am open to correction on this.
Click to expand...


There is no Scriptural mandate for a specific posture in prayer. The Scriptures speak of all sorts of different positions, etc., for prayer -- I don't think eyes closed and head bow is one of them. That said, I don't think it is wrong, as it helps prevent distractions, etc. The problem comes in when folks think that's the only proper mode to pray.

I think the issue is one of authority and submission in the church. I am a bit even more rigid in some regards in this area, as I think only the male leadership (e.g., elders) should be praying during a corporate worship service. I am not dogmatic in this regard, but I think it's a good principle for the spiritual shepherds of the congregation to be leading when it comes to such a means of grace being exercised in the service.


----------



## DonP

Women should have their heads covered when they are praying in church even if they are not doing the speaking, just as when they are participating in the preaching. 

So that has nothing to do with the woman leading prayer in the church. 

But as quoted above women should not be "moving the mouth" I believe is the word. 

Our church does not have women lead prayer in the service. But we have a separate prayer meeting without preaching just a time for those who will come to pray and all pray out loud one by one. I don't have an objection to women praying out loud in such a setting or in home groups in mixed company either. 

Why do people always have to try to get away with something a little more than what God says?


----------



## Scott1

It's hard to completely understand the situation you are describing.

In our church, we sometimes have a time of congregational prayer where individuals, men and women can spontaneously pray. Often, by custom, the prayer is adoration, thanksgiving or petition. We remain seated and quiet during this time. The pastor always closes. It seems like it has been roughly 50/50 men and women over the years. 

It has never seemed to be against Scripture to do this as long as there is no authoritative leading or closing. It is a spontaneous response time, and has been edifying.

It sounds more in the case you describe that individuals in the congregation are authoritatively leading, opening or closing in prayer, standing, acknowledging an individual as if they were leading and that would, in my understanding be unbiblical.

According to Scripture, let the Pastor know, then take two (or go to a plurality of Elders). Be gracious.


----------



## ExGentibus

Thanks everybody for the replies. Here is what happened: right after singing a hymn, while we were all standing, a woman began a long prayer thanking the Lord and meditating on His resurrection. She spoke for several minutes, and then everybody said amen and sat down, and the pastor began his sermon.

I do not think that walking out is an option, as I want to keep a low profile in this congregation as much as possible. Besides, this issue is certainly much smaller than others. Maybe I will talk to the pastor, but not soon.


----------



## OPC'n

ExGentibus said:


> Thanks everybody for the replies. Here is what happened: right after singing a hymn, while we were all standing, a woman began a long prayer thanking the Lord and meditating on His resurrection. She spoke for several minutes, and then everybody said amen and sat down, and the pastor began his sermon.
> 
> I do not think that walking out is an option, as I want to keep a low profile in this congregation as much as possible. Besides, this issue is certainly much smaller than others. Maybe I will talk to the pastor, but not soon.



Yep! This is unbiblical. Women are to be silent as in not the one leading prayer in the worship service. Some of our women will pray but that is in Sunday school and not the worship service. *No one* prays during worship service except for the pastor and except for when the whole congregation says the Lord's Prayer.


----------



## Tim

ExGentibus said:


> Thanks everybody for the replies. Here is what happened: right after singing a hymn, while we were all standing, a woman began a long prayer thanking the Lord and meditating on His resurrection. She spoke for several minutes, and then everybody said amen and sat down, and the pastor began his sermon.



Did she take it upon herself to just do this on her own? Or had the pastor asked her privately before the service? I ask because some churches will allow "spontaneous" praises.


----------



## ExGentibus

Tim said:


> Did she take it upon herself to just do this on her own? Or had the pastor asked her privately before the service? I ask because some churches will allow "spontaneous" praises.


I do not know whether she was asked to do that before the service, it is possible. Surely it seemed a spontaneous praise because the pastor did not prompt anyone to pray.


----------



## a mere housewife

It's comforting in a way that such situations arose in good churches even times of the apostles and had to be addressed. I'll pray for the eventual meeting with your pastor; maybe you are part of God's means to address this problem in this church.


----------



## MarieP

Yes, women pray in prayer meeting at my church. Just not OUT LOUD and LEADING  One of my pastors pointed out that us women are doing exactly what the men are doing when they aren't at that moment leading in prayer! A group of us women do meet every Lord's Day after evening worship, which I always pray more will come to. There is also a Ladies Third Watch which is specifically about missions and the expansion of the Kingdom. The parts of the body have different functions, but we are part of the body. I pray we understand this more and more!

And yes, we say the amen with everyone else 

Which is a wonderful practice! In fact, I just read a comment by John Rippon on the practice of the Particular Baptist Abraham Booth (thanks, rbcbob!):

"When others concluded public prayer, where he was present, he was accustomed at the conclusion, softly, yet audibly to subjoin Amen – this practice he wished might prevail in all our congregations, and at our prayer meetings; but his example and influence, considerable as they were, have not rendered it general."

Michael A. G. Haykin, ed, _The Works of Abraham Booth_. (Springfield: Particular Baptist Press, 2006), 9.


----------

