# Assurance and Certainty of Salvation are two different things.



## yoyoceramic (Oct 22, 2010)

This is a proposition I have been running into over the past several years, and I have searched the boards here, consulted the WCF, 3 Forms, Institutes, and other sources, but my question is not resolved. Let me first make a proposition and then a corresponding analogy:

You can have assurance of salvation, but not certainty.

The analogy I keep hearing is this:
It is like when you board an airplane. You are assured the pilot and aircraft will take you safely to your destination, but you don't know until you actually arrive at your destination.

So it is with your salvation: you are assured of the Gospel promises and of your election, but you do not know with certainty you are saved until you meet Jesus.

Reactions?


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## moral necessity (Oct 22, 2010)

My first thought was:

I John 5:13 - "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life."

Without absolute certainty regarding our personal salvation, I don't know how the fruit of peace will ever be developed within us.

Blessings!


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## KMK (Oct 23, 2010)

yoyoceramic said:


> This is a proposition I have been running into over the past several years, and I have searched the boards here, consulted the WCF, 3 Forms, Institutes, and other sources, *but my question is not resolved*. Let me first make a proposition and then a corresponding analogy:
> 
> You can have assurance of salvation, but not certainty.
> 
> ...


 
What is your question exactly?


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## Herald (Oct 23, 2010)

Mark,

Echoing the words of Charles, the Apostle John wrote, "These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, in order that you may know that you have eternal life" (1 John 5:13). Certainty is based on God's nature; His promises. Hebrews 8:6 tells us that our salvation is built on "better promises." Jesus Himself said, "He who believes in the Son has eternal life..." (John 3:36). These passages describe the theological certainty of salvation for those who believe. Assurance is different than certainty. Assurance is a direct result of where we are in our sanctification; or Christian walk. If we are walking in a manner pleasing to God (1 Thessalonians 2:12), and if our lives display the _evidence _of our profession through works (James 2:14), then our confidence, our assurance, will be high. It's when we are not walking in such a manner that we seem as enemies of Christ (Philippians 3:18), that our lack of assurance makes us doubt the certainty of God's promise. 

But there is a good to be said about the tension between certainty and assurance. Paul writes, "Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates" (2 Corinthians 13:5)? Paul doesn't write this to suggest that it is possible to fall from grace. Instead he warns the Corinthians to examine their lives in light of their actions. Do their lives match up to their profession? Our assurance in the certainty of our salvation becomes stronger when we are doing the will of God. I'm sure this is not a new answer for you, but it's the biblical one. I hope it gives you comfort.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Oct 23, 2010)

yoyoceramic said:


> It is like when you board an airplane. *You are assured the pilot and aircraft will take you safely to your destination*, but you don't know until you actually arrive at your destination.
> 
> So it is with your salvation: *you are assured of the Gospel promises and of your election*, but you do not know with certainty you are saved until you meet Jesus.



May I ask, How can you possibly be assurred "the pilot and aircraft will take you safely to your destination"? What's the ground of that assurance? Is it the pilot's experience, or is it the aircraft's fine structure? Both of those are untrustworthy and may in no wise be compared to God's faithfulness toward His promises to His elect concerning their salvation.

The Biblical answer to your mourning over assurance of salvation is found in Romans 8:16,

"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

Now, many people interpret this verse to mean that we can base the assurance of our salvation to our own feelings that come out of our hearts. This, however, is a heresy, totally inconsistent with the Scriptures, and not what the passage is saying. We are clearly told in 1 John 4:1, 

"Beloved, believe not every spirit, but *try the spirits whether they are of God*"

Whatever voices or thoughts you may hear or feel in your heart concerning your salvation [or anything else], you are told to "try the spirits whether they are of God"! So, How can we "try" the voices/thoughts in our head to know whether they are true or not? The answer to this question we find in 2 Timothy 3:16-17,

"*All scripture is given by inspiration of God*, and is profitable for doctrine, *for reproof*, *for correction*, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works."

We "try" the spirits by the inspirated word of God. Now, let's go back to Romans 8:16 and read it once again,

"The Spirit itself *beareth witness* with our spirit, that we are the children of God:"

HOW does the Spirit "bear witness" that we are the children of God? Does the Spirit of God expect us to believe every spirit, when He explicitly tells us to "try" them through His word? I don't think so. What does "bear witness" here, thus, mean? It means that the Spirit of God shows us _through His word_ "that we are the children of God". He shows us that _by comparing our lives to His word _they fit together - that though sinners, we are _partakers of God's lovingkindness_, which will never cease toward us, unless God is found to be unfaithful. BUT HE IS NOT! And that is clearly proven through the history of the Bible! Men, who have been called by God to be ministers to His word, have fallen so low that we may not even imagine, yet being brought up to light again by the power of God! In fact, if the words of the apostle Paul are to be taken as God-inspired (and I do), he "IS" the worst ("chief") of ALL sinners (1 Tim 1:15)! And here is the best part: HE WAS SAVED IN THE END!!! The point should be obvious: *If you think you are so sinful you cannot find favor in the sight of God, you do not know anything of being wicked! There was a man who surpassed the level of your crimes, and was saved by the Lord!* HOW SHALL THE PERFECT MERIT OF Christ NOT CLEANSE YOU OF THE FILTHINESS OF YOUR CRIMES ALSO?!


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## Peairtach (Oct 23, 2010)

The Holy Spirit uses the marks of grace to give us subjective certainty (assurance of faith) that we are saved and therefore certainly going to Heaven.

This assurance is strong even in the midst of our struggles with the world the flesh and the devil. E.g. The Apostle Paul was sure of his salvation even although he was struggling with sin in the way he portrays in Romans 7:

_For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am of the flesh, sold under sin. For I do not understand my own actions. For I do not do what I want, but I do the very thing I hate. Now if I do what I do not want, I agree with the law, that it is good. So now it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out. For I do not do the good I want, but the evil I do not want is what I keep on doing. Now if I do what I do not want, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells within me. So I find it to be a law that when I want to do right, evil lies close at hand. For I delight in the law of God, in my inner being, but I see in my members another law waging war against the law of my mind and making me captive to the law of sin that dwells in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, I myself serve the law of God with my mind, but with my flesh I serve the law of sin. (Romans 7:14-25, ESV) _

When we backslide though - and I don't believe that the Apostle was speaking of his backsliding in the above passage, but the normal Christian life - the Holy Spirit withdraws His _felt_ presence such that our subjective certainty of salvation wanes.

E.g. We know that David was justified, but when he sinned greatly as a justified man he experienced such a withdrawal of the felt presence of the Holy Spirit that he wondered if God was going to - or had - withdraw Himself from him altogether:

_Cast me not away from your presence, and take not your Holy Spirit from me. (Psalm 51:11)_

This withdrawal of God's felt presence and consequent lack of subjective certainty regarding our salvation is an important means by which God draws us closer to Himself.

What are some of the marks of grace? Maybe you can look for relevant texts yourself.

We have a peculiar love for God's people in comparison to other people, because we are also one of them.

We have a peculiar love for God's Word.

We have a peculiar love for God's Commandments (His ethical Word, moral law)

We love Christ - the Word made flesh - even although we haven't seen Him and don't know what He looks like.

We would desire to be free of all sin if that was possible in this life and if we had the ability to choose moral perfection we would choose it above anything else. We hate sin.

We are happy to hear that people are coming to faith in Christ and saddened when they are not, and saddened when those who profess faith in Christ show signs of falling from their profession of faith.

We love to see God's Name/God in Christ glorified.

We do not look to our own good works to justify us before God but only to the life and death of Christ alone. 

We love to gather with God's people. We love the Lord's Table.

We long to make further progress in sanctification and to be able to glorify God more in our lives.

We love God's Day - although this mark has been obscured for many true believers by the error of Dispensational antinomianism.

I had a problem with a lack of assurance for many years. 

I think that it is important for assurance, and also sanctification, to not only understand that we are justified by faith alone in Christ alone through grace alone, but also that if we believe in Christ we are no longer under the law as a covenant of works but only as a rule of life. More importantly our Apostle thought so, under Divine inspiration, and wrote a passage such as Romans 6. 

Study Romans 5,6 and 7 closely and listen to the excellent sermons on it that are available online, e.g. by Al Martin, John Piper and Sinclair Ferguson.

If we understand that we are justified by faith alone and are genuine Christians, and do not fully appreciate that we are no longer under law but under grace, every time we commit sins in our life that we are still struggling with as part of the process of sanctification, we will be arraigned before God's judgment seat in our minds, rather than understanding the reality that we are coming for forgiveness to our loving Heavenly Father.

A true believer can be in somewhat of a "legal bind" in his/her experience, even for many years, after conversion.


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## yoyoceramic (Oct 23, 2010)

All, I cannot thank you enough - I have read every one of them - this is really helpful to me because I frequently interact with a Bible study leader who insists that since assurance is not certainty, then we must be obedient to bolster our assurance. I am slowly learning that the reformed view is that assurance is based on the promises God made in the scripture, which so many of you mentioned above.



KMK said:


> What is your question exactly?



Ken, my question is: Can you have assurance of salvation, but not certainty. Basically, is there a difference between saying, "I am assured of my salvation" vs "I am certain of my salvation".

I find the airplane analogy to be weak too.... Here is a transcript of a recent Bible study I was a member of (I have changed the names)

*LEADER:* If I say, “ I smoke three packs a day and I smoke 2 or 3 packs a night, do you think
I would die of cancer?” Therefore I have less assurance I am not going to die.
So what I do, because of my behavior I lose whatever right I have to be assured.

*LEADER:* So lets say we get on that airplane we’ re getting assurance. Depending on who is
flying the thing is going to determine the degree to which you have assurance.
You evaluate things and on the basis of that, your assurance increases and decreases. So,
what assures us in the Bible that we are the sons of God?

Matt: The promises, etc….

John: and Our belief

*LEADER*: That is not only assurance, that is condition

*LEADER*: My brother, you cannot even be certain God exists.

John: Can’ t we be certain we will die?

*LEADER*: No, the probablility is great.

Matt: But we are certain we are dead in our sin?

*LEADER*: No, we are only certain the doctrine of the Bible says it is. We are not certain it is
true.....

It seems that our leader is talking more about an epistemological certainty here? Does this make any sense? In what way are we not even certain God exists - I was very troubled by this comment.



Richard Tallach said:


> When we backslide though - and I don't believe that the Apostle was speaking of his backsliding in the above passage, but the normal Christian life - the Holy Spirit withdraws His felt presence such that our subjective certainty of salvation wanes.



And I think this may be the issue here. Our leader is suggesting that if the subjective felt presence wanes that the Christian ought to make sure his life is showing fruit in order to become assured once more.


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## jwithnell (Oct 23, 2010)

Mark, _some_ in the US Dutch Reformed tradition have taken this thought so far that most don't even participate in communion. A dear friend's grandfather recently passed away, and she (who now has a more Biblical view of assurance) struggled because as he was dying, he kept talking about being so unsure -- not because of his own trust in Christ, but because of the church's teaching. 

The scriptures quoted already should be great comfort to us. And while we should not be complacent, we should accept the objective truth of scripture: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you_ will _be saved." As the WCF states, we might go through times of self-doubting, and at that point, we should carefully examine the fruits in our lives and be even more diligent in attending to the means of grace. But no, I don't think it's a question that should hang over us all our lives unless we've been contented with the milk of the faith and are being blown about with every passing teaching.


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## InSlaveryToChrist (Oct 23, 2010)

yoyoceramic said:


> All, I cannot thank you enough - I have read every one of them - this is really helpful to me because I frequently interact with a Bible study leader who insists that since assurance is not certainty, then we must be obedient to bolster our assurance. I am slowly learning that the reformed view is that assurance is based on the promises God made in the scripture, which so many of you mentioned above.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
I think your leader requires *a personal experience* _in order_ for one to claim he/she has certainty over a certain matter. For instance, "I cannot say, with certainty, Christ died on the cross, because I was not there watching him crucified." But really... This is a weak argument, for it supposes that we cannot _conclude_ things from facts [that we do have personal experience of]. For example, If I have experienced God's faithfulness in fulfilling His promises to His elect in bringing me out of _a certain_ temptation, cannot I expect, with full certainty, His faithfulness in _any other_ tempation I may fall into also? 

You don't have to be a great theologian in order to realize how we can have absolute certainty over things which we may have no personal experience of whatsoever.


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## Peairtach (Oct 23, 2010)

I think some - possibly a large part - of lack of assurance in Reformed circles, is down to not explaining clearly or often enough, that when we come to faith in Christ we are no longer under the law as a covenant of works but under grace.

This doctrine has been abused to mean that the believer is not under the law as a rule of life by antinomians, dispensationalists and liberals. But this just means that the true doctrine should be more carefully, clearly and often explained.

_For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)_

If we have genuine faith in Christ, when we sin and break the law our justification is unaffected. When we do good works our justification isn't improved.

Of course if we have been truly justified we have also been given new hearts, so we won't want to live out a sinful lifestyle, even although, like the Apostle Paul, we will struggle with particular sins, some which tempt some believers more than others.

_....being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,.....(I Corinthians 9:21)
_
The Ten Commandments are the way in which the person who is truly justified will want to pattern his life.

I recommend The Marrow of Modern Divinity by Edward Fisher which clearly explains how the believer is under the law and how he is not and is probably online somewhere:-

MARROW OF MODERN DIVINITY: Amazon.co.uk: FISHER EDWARD: Books

and Sinclair Ferguson's sermons on Romans 6 and 7, here:-

Sunday PM


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## yoyoceramic (Oct 23, 2010)

jwithnell said:


> Mark, some in the US Dutch Reformed tradition have taken this thought so far that most don't even participate in communion.



When you say some in the US Dutch Reformed have taken _this thought_ too far.... what do you mean: which thought in particular and why is this peculiar to the US Dutch Reformed?



Richard Tallach said:


> The Ten Commandments are the way in which the person who is truly justified will want to pattern his life.



Thanks for this and thanks for the book recommendations Richard. I am currently reading A Treatise on Law and Gospel by John Colqhoun.... understanding the law/gospel distinctions has helped me an incredible amount!

---------- Post added at 08:41 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:38 AM ----------

So I am getting the feel that the assurance wrought in us by the spirit, based on the promises in scripture, producing fruit in us, gives us certainty of our salvation? Would this be the same as saying certainly assured? I am still getting hung up on the dichotomy between the two words assurance and certainty.


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## Peairtach (Oct 23, 2010)

> So I am getting the feel that the assurance wrought in us by the spirit, based on the promises in scripture, producing fruit in us, gives us certainty of our salvation? Would this be the same as saying certainly assured? I am still getting hung up on the dichotomy between the two words assurance and certainty.



We can know with total certainty that we are right with God. This is the normal Christian life. 



> E.g. These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.



Where there is chronic lack of assurance it is down to bad or less than complete teaching or the individual has not taken on board properly the teaching he has had.

Often the biblical teaching on justification has been understood (early chapters of Romans), but chapters 5, 6, 7 and 8 of Romans - on sanctification and adoption - less so:

Romans: The Greatest Letter Ever Written - Desiring God 

Sometimes the believer - although he may have plenty evidence that he is saved - is unwiling to afford himself the luxury of assurance until he makes great strides in sanctification or in overcoming particular sins in his life. 

The believer needs to understand something of what has happened to him from these chapters and other corresponding areas of God's Word.

E.g.

(a) He needs to begin to understand what it means that in being baptised by Christ into Himself with the Holy Spirit at regeneration he has died to sin and is alive unto God through Christ.

(b) He needs to begin to understand what it is that if he is a believer he is no longer under law but under grace.

(c) He needs to begin to understand that if he is a believer he is reconciled to God through Christ, adopted into God's family and that God deals with him as a child not an enemy. 

On the other hand if a believer stops keeping a short account with God i.e. stops confessing and seeking repentance and new obedience regarding his ongoing daily sins and drifts further and further away from God, and ends up committing gross, presumptious, flagrant sins against God, it is a healthy sign if he/she questions the reality of their salvation. 

It was a healthy sign for the reality of David's sanctification and therefore justification that he was concerned that he might not have the reality of salvation because he had sinned so badly.It was an unhealthy sign when David was apparently unconcerned for some time until Nathan the prophet was used to convict his conscience.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Oct 23, 2010)

Just to spur on the discussion let's examine the Westminster Larger Catechism.



> Q. 80. Can true believers be infallibly assured that they are in the estate of grace, and
> that they shall persevere therein unto salvation?
> A. Such as truly believe in Christ, and endeavour to walk in all good conscience before
> him,349 may, without extraordinary revelation, by faith grounded upon the truth of God’s
> ...





> [349] 1 John 2:3. And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
> 
> [350] 1 Corinthians 2:12. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. 1 John 3:14, 18-19, 21, 24. We know that we have passed from death unto life, because we love the brethren. He that loveth not his brother abideth in death..... My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth. And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him..... Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God.... And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. 1 John 4:13, 16. Hereby know we that we dwell in him, and he in us, because he hath given us of his Spirit.... And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. God is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him. Hebrews 6:11-12. And we desire that every one of you do show the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end: That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.
> 
> ...


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