# Open (Random Vocal) Congregational Prayer



## Mushroom (Nov 22, 2009)

What are your views on opening prayer up to the congregation, where all are invited to voice their prayers randomly as they are moved, during the service of worship? Is this acceptable or no? Is it Confessional or no? Why or why not?


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## rbcbob (Nov 22, 2009)

Brad said:


> What are your views on opening prayer up to the congregation, where all are invited to voice their prayers randomly as they are moved, during the service of worship? Is this acceptable or no? Is it Confessional or no? Why or why not?




1 Corinthians 14:40 Let all things be done decently and in order.

1 Corinthians 14:26 How is it then, brethren? Whenever you come together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a tongue, has a revelation, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification.


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## William Price (Nov 22, 2009)

rbcbob said:


> Brad said:
> 
> 
> > What are your views on opening prayer up to the congregation, where all are invited to voice their prayers randomly as they are moved, during the service of worship? Is this acceptable or no? Is it Confessional or no? Why or why not?
> ...



Agreed. Scripture answers the question.


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## raekwon (Nov 22, 2009)

William Price said:


> rbcbob said:
> 
> 
> > Brad said:
> ...



Yeah, if we're talking about opening prayer up to ANYONE in the congregation during public worship, then I'd have to agree.

This kind of prayer can be appropriate and powerful in other situations, though, like in the context of small group bible studies or Sunday School.


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## Mushroom (Nov 22, 2009)

Perhaps I should clarify, what about a specific segment set aside for this purpose during Lord's Day worship service? After reading my OP, it could have been taken to mean folks speaking up at anytime during the service that they felt like doing so.


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## raekwon (Nov 22, 2009)

Brad said:


> Perhaps I should clarify, what about a specific segment set aside for this purpose during Lord's Day worship service? After reading my OP, it could have been taken to mean folks speaking up at anytime during the service that they felt like doing so.



I knew what you meant, Brad.  (And I'm guessing others did as well.)

Here's the thing, in my view . . . opening it up to ANYONE in the congregation -- a congregation which almost certainly includes unbelievers and/or those with aberrant theology -- makes it more likely that you'll end up with some "indecency and disorder." Wisdom seems to dictate that prayer during public worship be limited to elders and/or those they designate (and corporate, unison prayer, of course).

Like I said, I think it'd work in certain situations, though. Another one I can think of is at a meeting of presbytery, session, or diaconate (where all of the participants are mature believers). Even though the prayers are "random" (in that they're extemporaneous and there's no set sequence in who'll pray), decency and order will likely still result.


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## Mushroom (Nov 22, 2009)

I agree that the scripture cited precludes doing this, but as my Church occasionally practices it, I'm assuming the Session has thought it out and come up with a differing view of what the scripture teaches. If you were going to present a case for discontinuing the practice, what form would it take?

I do agree, Rae, that in the circumstances you describe it's fine. In fact, during a congregational meeting tonight it was done, and I thought it was edifying.


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## Scottish Lass (Nov 23, 2009)

Brad said:


> I agree that the scripture cited precludes doing this, but as my Church occasionally practices it, I'm assuming the Session has thought it out and come up with a differing view of what the scripture teaches. If you were going to present a case for discontinuing the practice, what form would it take?
> 
> I do agree, Rae, that in the circumstances you describe it's fine. In fact, during a congregational meeting tonight it was done, and I thought it was edifying.



Before presenting a case, I'd ask the Session if they've thought it out and what their view is. A practice that began many sessions ago sometimes perseveres and no one has thought much about it lately and couldn't tell you why it's done. 

Understanding their side (if they have a view) will go a long way in this matter, I imagine.


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## Osage Bluestem (Nov 23, 2009)

I think it's fine as long as it is just a part of the order of the overall service. I wouldn't want to be called upon to speak solo in a large crowd though. I do not think that Churches should do that to people. It should strictly be a voluntary thing.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Nov 23, 2009)

May women lead the congregation in public prayer?


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## Scott1 (Nov 23, 2009)

It seems we have clarified what we are describing in the post question- spontaneous prayer by members of the congregation at an appointed time during a corporate worship service.

It would seem there is no prohibition in Scripture against doing this, with both men and women participating provided it is clearly not leading or authoritative (which in this context it does not seem to be).

In practice, this seems to work well, without disorder when:
1) the Pastor closes the prayer
2) the prayers are specifically led toward adoration of God (as in Adoration, Confession, Thanksgiving and Supplication), rather than personal requests or situations. But I have seen very meaningful confession of sin, thanksgiving and even supplication, occasionally come this way as well.

(I have participated in this kind of prayer many times)


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## Glenn Ferrell (Nov 23, 2009)

Scott1 said:


> It would seem there is no prohibition in Scripture against doing this, with both men and women participating provided it is clearly not leading or authoritative (which in this context it does not seem to be).



How can anything articulated in public worship not be considered “authoritative”? How does one get around the prohibition against women speaking in public worship?

I increasingly hear of women reading scripture and leading in prayer in reformed churches. What’s going on here?


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## Scottish Lass (Nov 23, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> Scott1 said:
> 
> 
> > It would seem there is no prohibition in Scripture against doing this, with both men and women participating provided it is clearly not leading or authoritative (which in this context it does not seem to be).
> ...


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## rbcbob (Nov 23, 2009)

NT directives.



> 1 Timothy 2:8 I desire therefore that the men [*ανδρας*] pray everywhere, lifting up holy hands, without wrath and doubting;
> 
> 1 Timothy 2:11 Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. 12 And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence.


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## Scott1 (Nov 23, 2009)

Glenn Ferrell said:


> Scott1 said:
> 
> 
> > It would seem there is no prohibition in Scripture against doing this, with both men and women participating provided it is clearly not leading or authoritative (which in this context it does not seem to be).
> ...



Yes, and that is a matter of concern.

My understanding is women reading scripture during worship, exhorting from Scripture, and leading in prayer during corporate worship would violate I Timothy 2.

However, I do not quite read that as total silence. Consider the implications of that- not being able to read back in a responsive reading, or to signify by saying "amen" in a vow of membership, or to sing at all during corporate worship. 

But if I'm understanding the original post, it is about random spontaneous prayer offered up not in a leading or authoritative way, but as part of a congregational response. It would certainly be in the province of a particular church to choose to prohibit this, but in my understanding of this, could be wrong- there is no biblical prohibition.


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