# Discernment Regarding Liberal Seminary



## ReformingFlatlander (Nov 14, 2009)

Hello to all on the PurtianBoard! (This is actually my first post, so I'm sorry if I approach it "wrong"- I've never been a big poster in forums!) I am a recent member who has quietly been reading through posts and asking questions of various members here on the forum about a large concern of mine. Recently I started seminary at Pittsburgh Seminary and have been quite bothered with what I've experienced so far. There are several faithful faculty here at the seminary to Reformed Theology, but by and large I have witnessed a high degree of liberalism. I knew this would be the case to some degree in coming here, but as far as financial concerns every door seemed to fly open for me to come here (Full tuition, housing, books) and several mentors in my life felt that even with the mix of bad theology that I would hear, by God's grace I would be able to withstand and remain faithful, strong, and true to the gospel and come out equipped as a minister for Christ's church and kingdom.

As of now, I've become quite bothered with what I continually hear in classes and do not agree with most of the time. My chief concern is that I have come to be prepared tas a minister of God's word and that I will not be adequately equipped to do so in 3 years time. With such thoughts as the scriptures being fallible, late date archeological dating, low Christology and spirituality based on extra-Biblical ideas, you can see why I'm concerned seeing as I've been here only one term! In addition, there seems to be a low emphasis on pastoral theology, Biblical exegesis, and preaching... which all 3 of those are important aspects to a future pastor of a congregation.

Mainly I am wondering if there are people out there who have gone to seminary and experienced some of what I previously mentioned. Did you end up transferring schools (as I am seriously considering), and if not, how has it impacted your ministry in the years after seminary? Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated for I feel like I'm mildly "locked in" at PTS seeing that I am under care of a PC(USA) presbytery, have free schooling, and as of now do feel called to be a light in the darkness of this denomination. Right now I am prayerfully seeking His discernment as to how He is leading me to proceed and would love to hear other's experiences in how God called them in regards to similar experiences with seminary education

_____________________
Billy
Inquirer in Presbyterian Church (USA)
Colonial Presbyterian Church
Pittsburgh, PA


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## Berean (Nov 14, 2009)

Hi Billy-- You might want to start a brief introductory thread here Introduce Yourself so that the 'hellos' can be kept separate from the responses to your question in this thread. Good to see you here!


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## Kevin (Nov 14, 2009)

Billy you might try a pm to Backwoods presbyterian. He just finished @ a PCUSA seminary (was it PS?) and I am sure that he has some good insights.


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## Scott1 (Nov 14, 2009)

I've not gone to seminary but am somewhat acquainted with liberalism destroying biblical, evangelical and reformed institutions.

It's a threat because our fallen natures never learn "once and for all"- without Christ, we will repeat the same sin prone patterns in every generation.

The only way to assess this is prayerfully before God- asking what is His call on your life. How can you glorify Him most. That's the question.

If that is to glorify him as part of a small faithful remnant and engaging the falleness and hypocrisy of those who profess Him and would even presume to teach who do not know Him and would misrepresent Him out of the vanity of their own minds.

Or, go to a more biblical, reformed community where you can be challenged and learn with more light and engage some of the effects of pride and falleness there.

God has a plan for you and no one can precisely advise you. What to do? Not knowing that plan, my inclination, from what you are describing and your reaction to it...

look for a biblical, reformed alternative and if God opens the door, get out of there with your time, money and talents as fast as you can. Life and resources are too precious to waste on the vane imaginations of prideful men, who while having a form of godliness, deny the power thereof... and the gospel and all-of-life discipleship by scripture too precious to delay.


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## SemperEruditio (Nov 14, 2009)

Welcome.

I was in a similar situation. The Doctrines of Grace I was made aware but how liberal the seminary I was attending was/is ridiculous. Mine was as well monetary as the church I was attending was helping to pay and the seminary accepted my GI Bill. After my first semester I wanted to transfer and looked into but unfortunately was convinced by my then pastor to soldier on.

There are a few issues you have to deal with...I'll cut all that and just tell you that you should transfer. I'm thankful for my experience because it has shown me the "other" side of Christianity and I would dare say the majority side. However I am taking my languages at RTS and it is such a breath of fresh air. The Bible is infallible and sufficient...who knew?! 

The thing is that now that all I have left or almost have left are my electives which I've chosen to study the original languages I am offered major financial help to complete a degree at the Reformed seminary. The plan is to start and just keep going until I leave the area. So easily for the next 2 years I will be taking classes....STILL! 

I will say that you trust in God. Begin to pray for a way out but you have something which I did not have which were professors who were Reformed. Mine are so liberal many did not have a clue what "Reformed" was. Yeah...that bad. So be encouraged that as liberal as your seminary is it ain't that bad. The other thing is you will have to read twice the books. It actually got to the point where I would be the Reformed alternative books and not even bother with the ones required by the seminary. I learned more and during discussions had a balanced viewpoint.

The thing attending a liberal seminary gives you is an appreciation for the Bible. You will witness time and time again where many of the problems your classmates face is because the Bible is not the standard. Be on the lookout for those who begin to have their faith eaten away. Speak with them and encourage them. Give them snippets in books you are reading about the infallibility of scripture and pray, pray, pray, and pray some more.

So...in conclusion:
1. Pray about leaving.
2. Pray while you're still there to be that light.
3. Be prepared in your stay to study twice as hard or opt for the Orthodox books.
4. Make sure you attend a Bible believing church.
5. Pray
6. Did I mention to pray?


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## DMcFadden (Nov 14, 2009)

Billy,

Where are you from originally? I spoke with a colleague who has a son starting PTS this year. I'm curious.

Backwoods Presbyterian is a treasure trove of information. He knows the ins and outs of the school, the profs, and the theological bear traps. You would do well to engage him in conversation about the school. He simultaneously attended PTS and RPTS, graduating within the last year.


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## ewenlin (Nov 14, 2009)

I transferred, from Pentecostal to Reformed Evangelical..

Long story short, seminary's is to train and equip, can't get that if you're fighting to maintain your orthodoxy. Just doesn't make sense. Sure you'll become a better debater etc, but compared to sitting under truly reformed godly men?

Like what others here have said, I prayed and there were some doors open so I stepped through.

If alternatives open up for you, I'd say try your best to go.

Leave fighting liberalism for when you're pastoring full on.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 14, 2009)

Feel free to contact me.


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## ReformingFlatlander (Nov 14, 2009)

Originally I am from the Kansas City area. By God's grace I am where I am today, and have the opportunity to attend seminary. There are several people in this years incoming class who hold a high view of scriptures and an accurate view of God's grace, but even as this first term has gone by I can see how their theology has already begun to become tainted by some of the thoughts and theology we've had here at PTS. Hence I'm fearful that I'm heading that way as well, or at least suspect to the pressure to do so.

Backwoods Presbyterian, you and I have actually met before in Barbour Library here at PTS. We had a good chat down in the basement. I will have to send you a message for I feel you would have excellent insight into what I'm talking about.


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## Dearly Bought (Nov 15, 2009)

Not too long ago, I found myself in a similar situation, except with a presidential scholarship at an American Baptist seminary, while studying for ministry in the American Baptist churches. _I strongly urge you to leave_.

Financial hardship is nothing compared to the spiritual dangers involved in staying. I have no regrets over leaving.

Is seminary about a degree or about training for ministry? If the degree is the ultimate priority, then by all means stay and duke it out. But if you're looking to procure godly training for ministry, this is not the place to find it. Seminary is not the place for fighting battles over fundamental matters of Christian faith. I'd also be happy to discuss more over PM.


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## DMcFadden (Nov 15, 2009)

Having come out of the same denominational group as Bryan, I echo his warning and its passionate intensity. My guess is that you would be better able to handle your balance if you were attending a secular university of agnostics than a mainline place with professing Christians. There are affordable seminaries available. You do NOT need to go in deep debt to complete a program where Christ is honored and you will receive the kind of mentoring that will contribute to your future ministry.


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## ReformingFlatlander (Nov 15, 2009)

Thank you all for your responses. Currently I'm toying with the idea of either taking a little time off for the rest of the year, and praying about denominational calling, or dual enrolling with classes at RPTS. I've talked with them about taking Doctrine of Salvation and Calvin's Institutes. It's quite difficult to be under the care of a PC(USA) presbytery who doesn't want me to attend a school outside of the denomination. Thank you all once again for insight and prayers.


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## ADKing (Nov 16, 2009)

In your situation and location I would highly suggest attending RPTS. I would be a great opportunity for you.


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## Glenn Ferrell (Nov 16, 2009)

ReformingFlatlander said:


> Thank you all for your responses. Currently I'm toying with the idea of either taking a little time off for the rest of the year, and praying about denominational calling, or dual enrolling with classes at RPTS. I've talked with them about taking Doctrine of Salvation and Calvin's Institutes. It's quite difficult to be under the care of a PC(USA) presbytery who doesn't want me to attend a school outside of the denomination. Thank you all once again for insight and prayers.



The denominational question is just as important as the seminary you attend. I attended two PCUSA seminaries in the early 70's, left seminary for 8 years, then obtained an MDiv from a broad evangelical seminary. Though I appreciate understanding how liberals think; I've spent the last thirty years learning theology on my own.

I have classmates from Princeton Seminary, who seemed solid evangelicals when I knew them there. Their time since in ministry in the PCUSA has coopted them into compliance with the broader views of the denomination.

Once you determine to make the change, God will provide a way, a denomination, seminary and finances. Consider RPTS, Greenville, PRTS, or Mid-America. These would be my choices if I were deciding on a seminary today.


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