# Canaan and Columbo



## non dignus (Jan 7, 2012)

To what purpose did Moses write the Genesis narrative? Was it not to prepare Israel for the promised land? 

Why is it important that we know Cain was a farmer, and Abel a shepherd? Who were the Sons of God and the Nephilim? Is Moses just sort of wandering around the historical landscape throwing in nifty trivia? Or was he giving context to the flood account informing Israel who and what they will encounter in the promised land?

Noah's wife was our mother, the uterus primus. So why do we know the name of Tubal-cain's sister, but we don't know the name of our common mom? How did Giantism get aboard the ark? Just what did Ham do? Was Moses writing a general history for mankind replete with demonology, celestial beings, and fantastic humans?

Or was he more pedestrian, soberly recounting the errors of our venerable fathers, and making a document in the context of redemption from Egypt for the purpose of preparing Israel for the promised land?

*I believe the answer to these riddles point to Naamah, Noah's wife. I think Noah (a Son of God) took a newly converted Naamah (a daughter of men) on the ark in obedience to the command to enter the ark in pairs. She had the genes for Giantism which were passed on to Canaan via Ham. *

I AM Columbo.


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## Peairtach (Jan 7, 2012)

?

For starters it's worth remembering, even for context, that whatever (interesting) parallels there may be with other Ancient Near Eastern literature, that Moses wrote Genesis under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit may have had a number of purposes in providing God's people of all ages with the book.

*E.g.*


> So Moses went out and told the people the words of the LORD. And he gathered seventy men of the elders of the people and placed them around the tent. Then the LORD came down in the cloud and spoke to him, and took some of the Spirit that was on him and put it on the seventy elders. And as soon as the Spirit rested on them, they prophesied. But they did not continue doing it. (Numbers 11:24-25, ESV)





> Then he remembered the days of old, of Moses and his people. Where is he who brought them up out of the sea with the shepherds of his flock? Where is he who put in the midst of them his Holy Spirit? (Isa. 63:11, ESV)


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## Jack K (Jan 7, 2012)

non dignus said:


> To what purpose did Moses write the Genesis narrative? Was it not to prepare Israel for the promised land?



In part. But never forget this:



> Concerning this salvation, the prophets who prophesied about the grace that was to be yours searched and inquired carefully, inquiring what person or time the Spirit of Christ in them was indicating when he predicted the sufferings of Christ and the subsequent glories. It was revealed to them that they were serving not themselves but you, in the things that have now been announced to you through those who preached the good news to you by the Holy Spirit sent from heaven, things into which angels long to look.
> (1 Peter 1:10-12)





> For whatever was written in former days was written for our instruction, that through endurance and through the encouragement of the Scriptures we might have hope.
> (Romans 15:4)





> For if you believed Moses, you would believe me; for he wrote of me. (John 5:46)



Moses wrote Genesis for us. He wrote it so we would better understand the glories of the person and work of Christ. So we must always read it with redemption in view. And if it doesn't bother to be clear on, say, how giant DNA got on the ark, we may conclude that this bit of information lies outside what we need to know to appreciate our salvation and our Savior.


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## non dignus (Jan 7, 2012)

Peairtach said:


> ?
> 
> For starters it's worth remembering, even for context, that whatever (interesting) parallels there may be with other Ancient Near Eastern literature, that Moses wrote Genesis under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit may have had a number of purposes in providing God's people of all ages with the book.



Yes, of course. First and foremost God is writing scripture. The miracle of scripture is that the parallels cross over from different human authors. Which, of course, is because there is One Author!

Richard, I love your intial response which was (?) LOL

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Jack K said:


> Moses wrote Genesis for us. He wrote it so we would better understand the glories of the person and work of Christ. So we must always read it with redemption in view. And if it doesn't bother to be clear on, say, how giant DNA got on the ark, we may conclude that this bit of information lies outside what we need to know to appreciate our salvation and our Savior.



Hi Jack,
Yes, I believe Genesis is for us, and Revelation was for the early NT church. But it's interesting which facts are given, and how much is given. I believe it's written is such a way that it makes us hunger for more. The more we read and learn, the more we want to read and learn. He doesn't just hand it out on a silver platter. The riches go to the diligent. Which is why I am poor.

May I offer some parallels between Adam and Noah? 

1) covenant sign 
tree of life
rainbow

2) dietary directives
abstain from tree of knowledge of good and evil
abstain from blood

3) staging
garden
vineyard

4) temptation
the fruit was a delight to the eyes
the daughters of men were beautiful

just the tip of the iceberg......


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## Southern Presbyterian (Jan 7, 2012)

***Moderation***

Deuteronomy 29:29 teaches us that speculation and divination of secret knowledge are not permissible vocations for the child of God. Had the Holy Spirit wanted us to know the name of Noah's wife it would be recorded in scripture. Further, the importance of things revealed are explained and interpreted by Scripture, as Jack and Richard have shown. Anything else is at best guessing and at worst idle speculation bordering on mysticism.

Thread closed.


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## Contra_Mundum (Jan 7, 2012)

*My post was added while thread was being closed*

On the proposition that this thread has at least a _slightly_ serious side to it...
(and perhaps some of what comes in below is a mixture of what we ought to think soberly, and certain speculations of the wilder sort on the internet?)


non dignus said:


> To what purpose did Moses write the Genesis narrative? Was it not to prepare Israel for the promised land?


Genesis does a lot of things, including setting up the background of world-history, in order to set redemptive history in its own narrower context of the Church. The Exodus, of the Book of Exodus, is the central salvation-motif of the whole OT. And Genesis along with the rest of the Pentateuch was written/compiled (in the main) by Moses, the leader of the Exodus generation, for the benefit of his and subsequent generations. Everyone benefits from knowing where he came from--its part of "who you are."

And yes, there is a tremendous amount of "recapitulation" just between Genesis and Exodus; even of early events and later events within Genesis. The Israelite experience in the Exodus has its foreshadowing moments all over the earlier book. Then, this is the pattern that is established for the rest of biblical literature--many future events (even down to Messiah) are recognized as fulfillment and expansion of previous experiences of the people in relation to their God. Yes, what is spoken prophetically always has reference to the present and the future. But I'd also have to say that in my view, the parts of the Pentateuch that point ahead _practically_ and _specifically_ to the occupation of Canaan are principally in those parts that refer to the constituting of the nation in their generation, Exodus-Deuteronomy, rather than majoring in the Historical Prologue (Genesis).

Genesis especially points to and anticipates the Exodus, being most immediately relevant to the generations that first received this revelation (in the specific form it was given, and we still have). But personally I don't think that Genesis' details necessarily underwrite the history of the conquest or the life of Israel's after-generations in the land. Those brush-strokes broaden considerably in reference to the nation; whereas, with respect to the coming Christ the details grow in importance. In other words, it would be a failure of exegesis to say that the events of Sodom/Gomorrah were _prophetic_ of the events of Jdg.19-20, or even foreshadowed them. That is not to say that the writer of Judges does not have Gen.19 in mind as he writes his history of that time. On the other hand, I think Moses includes _the exact form_ of the story of Jacob's escape from Laban (Gen.31) as a specific precursor to the children of Israel's escape from Pharaoh.



non dignus said:


> Why is it important that we know Cain was a farmer, and Abel a shepherd? Who were the Sons of God and the Nephilim? Is Moses just sort of wandering around the historical landscape throwing in nifty trivia? Or was he giving context to the flood account informing Israel who and what they will encounter in the promised land?


I think we can run the risk of viewing the *facts* of revelation as such a "literary" product, that we may end up discounting the _providential_ factor controlling history. That Abel was a shepherd, and Cain a farmer are *facts*, not just devices for getting a point across to the Exodus generation. But I do agree that Moses is "selective" of the facts he records, and anticipates the needs of those in his days and the days to come. I just think that we have to be careful not to impose too Procrustean a bed on every slight nuance (like the presence or absence of a name).

I think, for example, that it would be a big mistake to "overinterpret" the son's occupations as putting a stamp of approval on one versus the other. Has it been suggested by a commentator that the farmer-Cain is a prototypical Egyptian-oppressor? I find that correlation very dubious. Can it benefit a "pastoral" people to know that Abel-approved-by-God was a shepherd? Sure, but not to the extent that Cain's occupation is despised. After all, the wandering generation of the Wilderness (pastoral) hopes for a "settled" life in Canaan, under its own fig-tree (cultivation). Bottom line is, there are many helpful things that can be lifted from the details Moses was inspired to preserve; but it would be a mistake, in my opinion, to make every minute fact subservient to the "main" goal of gaining the Land. Especially if gaining the Land is actually a second-order good to the first-order good of God's dwelling with his people, and they with him, in worship and love.

On the matter of "Nephilim," I honestly think that far too much energy is expended on what is largely speculative theology. The linguistic parallels certainly imply _theological parallels_, but do not necessarily imply specific historical connection or genetic lineage that amount to anything significant. There is no "trivia" at all included by Moses under these rules of interpretation; but neither is there a need to reimagine the origins of these people as uniquely "Cainic," or worse, "demonic." Will Israel encounter their own "Nephilim" enemies when they go into Canaan? Sure, but the references to these types are slight and enigmatic, and we should be similarly restrained in our interpretation of their characteristics.



non dignus said:


> Noah's wife was our mother, the uterus primus. So why do we know the name of Tubal-cain's sister, but we don't know the name of our common mom? How did Giantism get aboard the ark? Just what did Ham do? Was Moses writing a general history for mankind replete with demonology, celestial beings, and fantastic humans?


There is some here to object to.

Why, indeed, do we know the name of the one sister, Naamah? I know one thing: The text doesn't tell us she was Noah's wife. There isn't the slightest hint of that. In fact, the text tells us that Noah is a full two generations removed (later) from the generation that produced Naamah. More than that, Noah's sons all appear to be born around his age of 500yrs (cf. Gen.5:32 w/ 11:10). How disparate were the ages of Noah (apparently younger) and his _alleged_ wife (apparently older)? There are other assumptions at play here, I admit that. But just the addition of these facts call into question the initial presumption. There is simply *no* connection to Noah that we can legitimately draw from the presence of the "name" Naamah.

Our "common mother" is Eve, and there should be (and is) no rival to her. Noah is presented as the father of a New Humanity, but there just might be good theological reasons not to play up his wife's identity any more than the wives of Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

What exactly IS "giantism?" Maybe every one of our ancestors before the Flood were "giants" compared to us now. Those retaining strong elements of that characteristic after the Flood may have used their "size" to intimidate the rest of humanity. The fact is, we don't KNOW why there were giants in those days.

What DID Ham do? Did HAM do _anything_, other than report a bad-scene to his brothers? The text indicates that Canaan DID something, and was cursed for it. And THAT is a detail that stands behind all the evil that God points to as overflowing in those lands in the years after.

Of course Genesis is not "generic history." Of course there is a focus in the Bible on "redemptive history," and the future of God's people is the whole point. It is, however, a special history within overall history. Details in redemptive history coincide with details of overall history, and prove that our faith is embedded in the fabric of reality, and isn't a bunch of mythmaking.



non dignus said:


> Or was he more pedestrian, soberly recounting the errors of our venerable fathers, and making a document in the context of redemption from Egypt for the purpose of preparing Israel for the promised land?
> 
> *I believe the answer to these riddles point to Naamah, Noah's wife. I think Noah (a Son of God) took a newly converted Naamah (a daughter of men) on the ark in obedience to the command to enter the ark in pairs. She had the genes for Giantism which were passed on to Canaan via Ham. *



I think that Moses wrote/compiled Genesis for the benefit of God's people. He did so to "set the record straight" historically and factually; to help the Exodus generation understand why God was delivering them (promises made to their fathers); to anticipate a future entrance into Canaan; to point to Christ as the hope both of Israel and the world. Genesis is full of material that help us understand who God is, types that point to Christ, types that reveal just what sort of miserable sinners men are in need of such a Savior--someone who saves dirty, rotten idolaters and deceivers (to name a couple) in spite of themselves.

That is a message for a people being saved by grace, in spite of themselves. As for Naamah being Noah's wife, that's speculation which may be "fun," but is not much help in unpacking the nature of the foes who face God's people in their quest to attain the land which cannot be won by any human effort.


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