# What age for catechism memorization?



## MMasztal

We have adopted 8 yr old twin boys (adopted a nearly 6 yoa- both ADHD, but fairly intelligent). They regularily attend Sunday school/church, but I'd like to have them memorize a catechism. The one I'm thinking of using is Great Commission Publishers, "First Catechism". It contains 145 questions and was what we used when I was in the OPC in Georgia. 

My wife remembers memorizing a catechism when she was about 9, but can't recall how many questions there were. I grew up R.C. alterboy and memorized the mass in Latin (didn't know a thing I was saying though)

If/when they do memorize the questions, is it customary to have them recite all 145 questions to the pastor in one sitting? I just seems like a lot. Or maybe I expect too little from my guys.

Thanks for any input.


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## Barnpreacher

MMasztal said:


> We have adopted 8 yr old twin boys (adopted a nearly 6 yoa- both ADHD, but fairly intelligent). They regularily attend Sunday school/church, but I'd like to have them memorize a catechism. The one I'm thinking of using is Great Commission Publishers, "First Catechism". It contains 145 questions and was what we used when I was in the OPC in Georgia.
> 
> My wife remembers memorizing a catechism when she was about 9, but can't recall how many questions there were. I grew up R.C. alterboy and memorized the mass in Latin (didn't know a thing I was saying though)
> 
> If/when they do memorize the questions, is it customary to have them recite all 145 questions to the pastor in one sitting? I just seems like a lot. Or maybe I expect too little from my guys.
> 
> Thanks for any input.



That's the catechism we use for our three year old. She knows 50 of the questions. The beauty of it is that I'm her pastor so she can tell them to me every night a little at a time instead of all 145 at once.


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## westminken

My pastor is teaching a catechism class for 7-10 year olds right now. He is having the kids memorize 2-3 questions a week and they seem to be doing well. You might want to use the same approach and have it part of your family worship time. I think 2-3 questions a week is pretty doable for kids that age.


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## SolaScriptura

We have 3 kids doing catechism... their ages are 7, 5, and 3. My oldest knows about 70 or so, the middle knows about 45 and the youngest is a young 3 year old, just starting, and he knows about 10.

Our nightly family devotions are LONG... about 45 minutes of singing, prayer, Bible reading... and then we get to catechism. Going through each question would simply be too much. So... I usually pick one question per page just to keep things fresh in their mind... plus the act of giving them the question out of order prevents them from slipping into "auto pilot" mode. On Fridays we have a "challenge" game where I ask a question and the first one to raise his/her hand gets to answer and at the end of the game the one with the most points gets a special daddy tickle/munch session. (Conversly, the one with the worst score gets a severe beating.) 

(Just kidding about that last sentence!)


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## toddpedlar

SolaScriptura said:


> We have 3 kids doing catechism... their ages are 7, 5, and 3. My oldest knows about 70 or so, the middle knows about 45 and the youngest is a young 3 year old, just starting, and he knows about 10.



We have the same ages, plus a 4 month old who isn't QUITE ready for catechism yet... we too use the First Catechism (or rather a version that has somewhat older wording, but essentially the same questions, called the Catechism for Young Children). We're just building ours up - eventually I suspect (though it would be LONG) our girls will be able to state every answer; but the way we do it is about 10 questions each, each night, and I just shuffle along with each one individually, adding a new question every other night or third night depending. This works out to about 3 new questions each week. 

The 3 year old we've just started with, and she's only got the first three down, and I expect the progress in adding new questions will be somewhat slower with her. 

We do this before our family worship time, which is simple - prayer, short bible passage, and singing, about 20 minutes.


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## Kevin

My oldest two have already said the (childrens) catechism & are working on the shorter. 

We have used the Haddington House edition & I would be glad to send a copy of it to any one who asked for it. Just PM me with your postal info & I will send you a copy.

The age at which they can say it will vary from child to child. However every child (born in a christian home) should begin the process of memorizing it as soon as they can. My 2 year old can give the first several answers without really understanding what he is saying. He is the child who says that "poly, poly, poly" is his favorite song! By which he means that great protestant classic "Holy, Holy, Holy". 

When my mom babysat the kids a few weeks ago she was at six's & seven'
s when putting them to bed because our Alex kept asking her to sing the "Poly Poly" song.

Kids can learn more then you think. Give them the blessing of a good catechism.


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## SolaScriptura

Kevin said:


> My 2 year old can give the first several answers without really understanding what he is saying. He is the child who says that "poly, poly, poly" is his favorite song! By which he means that great protestant classic "Holy, Holy, Holy".



Amazing!!! Reading this was like reading about my just-turned-3-year-old!


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## toddpedlar

SolaScriptura said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> My 2 year old can give the first several answers without really understanding what he is saying. He is the child who says that "poly, poly, poly" is his favorite song! By which he means that great protestant classic "Holy, Holy, Holy".
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Amazing!!! Reading this was like reading about my just-turned-3-year-old!
Click to expand...


We had been working slowly with our now 7 year old, when she was about 3, and I'll never forget the sadness with which she shook her head, giving the answer "Noooo....he sinned against God"


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## Cheshire Cat

I'm 20 and I know 1 from the Westminster shorter catechism. #4 to be exact. You can never start too late .


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## brymaes

Cheshire Cat said:


> I'm 20 and I know 1 from the Westminster shorter catechism. #4 to be exact. You can never start too late .


Hey, I'm sure you know the first!


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## Barnpreacher

Wow, all I can say is praise God for Christian families that take part in family worship. This is an element of worship that has been taken away from the church for far too long now.

It's threads like this that let me know and proudly say that I'm just a pilgrim and a stranger in this land, and it sure is comforting to know I'm not alone on this journey toward a better city. Thank you brothers!


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## SueS

Our church does the "Kid's Quest" catechism club every week where the children learn several questions as well as receiving teaching connected with them. The classes are divided into the little guys, ages 4-6, and the older ones up to ages 9/10. A couple of weeks ago my 33mo grand daughter sat in on the littles group which was being taught about Abraham's obedience in following God's word and the accompanying lesson about obeying parents. She has begun asking her mommy, "Am I obeying?" almost every time she does what mommy asks her to do. It's amazing what God's Word will accomplish even in such a young child!


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## MMasztal

Thanks everyone for you responses.


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## ChristopherPaul

Children are capable (much more so than adults) at memorization at early ages. We started using the Children's First Catechism when our first children were younger, but switched all of them to the Shorter Catechism including our three year old. She learns the "Who Made You?" type questions in Sunday School but we only teach her the WSC at home. She is not as fluent with the questions and answers as our six and five year old, but she certainly picks up on it and can recall them with some help.


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## jaybird0827

ChristopherPaul said:


> Children are capable (much more so than adults) at memorization at early ages. We started using the Children's First Catechism when our first children were younger, but switched all of them to the Shorter Catechism including our three year old. She learns the "Who Made You?" type questions in Sunday School but we only teach her the WSC at home. She is not as fluent with the questions and answers as our six and five year old, but she certainly picks up on it and can recall them with some help.


 


We did the same with our son. Early exposure goes a long way. If they hear it repeatedly over time, it facilitates the later task of memorizing.


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## non dignus

We started our kids on 'Catechism for Shorties' (87 Q.) at Pre-K and 1st grade. Now, at 2nd and 4th grade, we are on Heidelberg 19. I've memorized up to Heidelberg 66.


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## reformedcop

We are doing the WSC with our 2, 5 and 8 year old boys. Tim, my oldest and Steven, the middle put me to shame as far as the precise memorization of the questions and answers.


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## Cheshire Cat

theologae said:


> Cheshire Cat said:
> 
> 
> 
> I'm 20 and I know 1 from the Westminster shorter catechism. #4 to be exact. You can never start too late .
> 
> 
> 
> Hey, I'm sure you know the first!
Click to expand...

Correct. So I guess I know 2!


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## Pergamum

Don't you all think that many of the catechism questions are still too hard for children? Not too hard to memorize because kids can memorize almost anything....but so can a parrot. The key is not memorization-ability, but understandability.


What I mean to say is that most children's catechisms are too lingo-ridden. 

I.e. covenant of life....What does THAT mean? 


MY 3 year old can memorize it, but it really does no good to memorize holy sounding 
words if he does not understand it (the Penny-Costals shout Prasie God all the time and pepper their speech with lingo, but they are no more holy for it).


I have reworked the catechism so that my 3 year old son knows what is being actually taught and can talk about it and even give me examples himself:

Who made you
God
What else did God make
everything
Why did God make you
For His Glory (or...He loves me)
Where do we read about God
In the Bible
What keeps man away from God
Sin
Is sin good or bad
Bad
Who saves us from our sin
Jesus

At each point I ask him about what these questions mean and he goes into mini sermons...."Yes, daddy, god made birdies, God makes lizards, God makes the trees..."

And then he can talk about what sin is and give me examples ("being bad" "taking stuff" "hurting people").

He knows the Jesus can make "bad guys" into "good guys" and etc. 

He does not yet know a whole lot of holy jargon, however, and I think this is a strong point. Nor does he know a lot of quantity (i.e. 150 questions and answers). 

Many people learn the words of salvation without truly knowing what salvation is. I want a little bird that can explain back what the answers really mean instead of parrot back an answer through rote memory.

Not that any of you do this...but I have seen some who want their kids to church out answers like a little machine and the kid actually has no clue about the content of the questions.


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## Quickened

Pergamum said:


> Don't you all think that many of the catechism questions are still too hard for children? Not too hard to memorize because kids can memorize almost anything....but so can a parrot. The key is not memorization-ability, but understandability.
> 
> 
> What I mean to say is that most children's catechisms are too lingo-ridden.
> 
> I.e. covenant of life....What does THAT mean?
> 
> 
> MY 3 year old can memorize it, but it really does no good to memorize holy sounding
> words if he does not understand it (the Penny-Costals shout Prasie God all the time and pepper their speech with lingo, but they are no more holy for it).
> 
> 
> I have reworked the catechism so that my 3 year old son knows what is being actually taught and can talk about it and even give me examples himself:
> 
> Who made you
> God
> What else did God make
> everything
> Why did God make you
> For His Glory (or...He loves me)
> Where do we read about God
> In the Bible
> What keeps man away from God
> Sin
> Is sin good or bad
> Bad
> Who saves us from our sin
> Jesus
> 
> At each point I ask him about what these questions mean and he goes into mini sermons...."Yes, daddy, god made birdies, God makes lizards, God makes the trees..."
> 
> And then he can talk about what sin is and give me examples ("being bad" "taking stuff" "hurting people").
> 
> He knows the Jesus can make "bad guys" into "good guys" and etc.
> 
> He does not yet know a whole lot of holy jargon, however, and I think this is a strong point. Nor does he know a lot of quantity (i.e. 150 questions and answers).
> 
> Many people learn the words of salvation without truly knowing what salvation is. I want a little bird that can explain back what the answers really mean instead of parrot back an answer through rote memory.
> 
> Not that any of you do this...but I have seen some who want their kids to church out answers like a little machine and the kid actually has no clue about the content of the questions.



At my church the children there go through the different questions. One group is small probably around 3-5? The other group is older yet still single digits. At first i was really impressed with the memorization skills. But one thing really stuck out in my mind and i think this post really touches on that.

I noticed that some answers the kids gave back were robotic. That showed me that there was memorization but lack of understanding. I think when someone really "gets it" they can put it in there own words.

After some thought i would encourage a mix of both. Nothing wrong with memorization at all! Good for the mind methinks. But i think to incorperate a way for the kids to put things in their own words. Encourage those "mini sermons". Let them think and reason and guide them and assist them when needed. I think a proper mix of those things is necessary.


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## ChristopherPaul

Pergamum said:


> Don't you all think that many of the catechism questions are still too hard for children? Not too hard to memorize because kids can memorize almost anything....but so can a parrot. The key is not memorization-ability, but understandability.



Yes, and the goal is simply to get the kids to memorize... nothing more.

It is part of the classical philosophy of learning (or teaching) in that children are highly capable of memorization at young ages, but not so much comprehension. So while they are young we focus on simply getting the information into their minds, then later when they develop and mature we work on that same information that is already there and work on comprehension and then after that application. This does not mean we ignore explanations of concepts and terms at young ages, but we do not expect them to understand it all, but we do expect them to memorize it.

All kids memorize information at young ages that they will not understand until they are older, but the goal is to get the right information in "there" so they will have something worthwhile to meditate on when those times come.


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## Hamalas

Our family has recently been working on memorizing the Westminster Shorter Catechism. My youngest brother is four and has memorized probably the first three or four questions. My older sister and I were raised memorizing the chilren's catachism. Those things are a great resource however one thing to consider is that it makes it difficult at times to memorize something different like the WSC. Take for example the 5th WSC question:"Are there more Gods than one?" The anwser is: "There is but one only, the living and true God." However in the catachism us older ones learned out of the anwser was: "No there is only one God." While this is a good anwser it constantly trips us up when we try to learn the WSC. I am not saying don't use a children's catechism however I will probably be raising my kids with the WSC in the original wording. My reasoning goes along with ChristopherPaul's comment. Great post!


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## Pergamum

ChristopherPaul said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you all think that many of the catechism questions are still too hard for children? Not too hard to memorize because kids can memorize almost anything....but so can a parrot. The key is not memorization-ability, but understandability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and the goal is simply to get the kids to memorize... nothing more.
> 
> It is part of the classical philosophy of learning (or teaching) in that children are highly capable of memorization at young ages, but not so much comprehension. So while they are young we focus on simply getting the information into their minds, then later when they develop and mature we work on that same information that is already there and work on comprehension and then after that application. This does not mean we ignore explanations of concepts and terms at young ages, but we do not expect them to understand it all, but we do expect them to memorize it.
> 
> All kids memorize information at young ages that they will not understand until they are older, but the goal is to get the right information in "there" so they will have something worthwhile to meditate on when those times come.
Click to expand...




YIKES. That is just as I feared. Parroting without comprehension. 

Whether it is "Classical" or not, I don't really see this as beneficial in the context of worship. 1 word that is understood is more important than rote parroting of all 150 questions.

I assume that this catechisization is done for worship purposes and not a mere educational exercise. If merely an intellectual exercise, play Memory instead.


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## Barnpreacher

Pergamum said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you all think that many of the catechism questions are still too hard for children? Not too hard to memorize because kids can memorize almost anything....but so can a parrot. The key is not memorization-ability, but understandability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and the goal is simply to get the kids to memorize... nothing more.
> 
> It is part of the classical philosophy of learning (or teaching) in that children are highly capable of memorization at young ages, but not so much comprehension. So while they are young we focus on simply getting the information into their minds, then later when they develop and mature we work on that same information that is already there and work on comprehension and then after that application. This does not mean we ignore explanations of concepts and terms at young ages, but we do not expect them to understand it all, but we do expect them to memorize it.
> 
> All kids memorize information at young ages that they will not understand until they are older, but the goal is to get the right information in "there" so they will have something worthwhile to meditate on when those times come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YIKES. That is just as I feared. Parroting without comprehension.
> 
> Whether it is "Classical" or not, I don't really see this as beneficial in the context of worship. 1 word that is understood is more important than rote parroting of all 150 questions.
> 
> I assume that this catechisization is done for worship purposes and not a mere educational exercise. If merely an intellectual exercise, play Memory instead.
Click to expand...


Yeah, I don't necessarily agree with Christopher Paul here. I want my three year old to memorize the questions and answers, but very often I will stop and explain to her what the questions and answers mean so the Spirit can sow those seeds of regeneration in her heart. 

I don't necessarily agree with Pergie either. Memory cannot be compared to catechizing our children, although I get the gist of what you're saying.


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## ChristopherPaul

Pergamum said:


> ChristopherPaul said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Don't you all think that many of the catechism questions are still too hard for children? Not too hard to memorize because kids can memorize almost anything....but so can a parrot. The key is not memorization-ability, but understandability.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, and the goal is simply to get the kids to memorize... nothing more.
> 
> It is part of the classical philosophy of learning (or teaching) in that children are highly capable of memorization at young ages, but not so much comprehension. So while they are young we focus on simply getting the information into their minds, then later when they develop and mature we work on that same information that is already there and work on comprehension and then after that application. This does not mean we ignore explanations of concepts and terms at young ages, but we do not expect them to understand it all, but we do expect them to memorize it.
> 
> All kids memorize information at young ages that they will not understand until they are older, but the goal is to get the right information in "there" so they will have something worthwhile to meditate on when those times come.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> YIKES. That is just as I feared. Parroting without comprehension.
> 
> Whether it is "Classical" or not, I don't really see this as beneficial in the context of worship. 1 word that is understood is more important than rote parroting of all 150 questions.
> 
> I assume that this catechisization is done for worship purposes and not a mere educational exercise. If merely an intellectual exercise, play Memory instead.
Click to expand...



Children are certainly allowed to have the questions explained to them; I never said we should not instruct them on meaning and simply play a memory game. In fact in my home my wife goes over the question of the week every morning during Bible class and then during family worship at night I go over the same question, and the main study for every evening that week is an explanation of the question and answer they are currently learning. So they learn the question and answer and spend at least a week on learning the meaning of the particular catechism question and answer. 

Now is my 6 year old comprehending more than my 3 year old? I am sure and that is ok. The goal is simply for my 3 year old to know the question and answer. By the time she is 6 she will not need to focus so much on memorization as she will just on comprehension. 

It happens this way whether we like it or not. Kids learn facts and to believe facts before they are required to defend them and thus fully understand them. I will teach them, “Are there more God’s than one? There is but one only, the living and true God.” My three year old will correctly answer this question and proclaim it, but I do not expect her to fully comprehend and/or of course defend it. That will come later.

Please don’t belittle my training by comparing it to a mere juvenile board game.


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## Pergamum

ChristopherPaul: No belittling intended. Praise God for the stewardship of one of your highest treasures, your family. I apologize if I did so. I just wanted to stress the point of comprehension over rote memory...but it certainly sounds like you have your house in order. I could learn a few lessons from you!


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## ChristopherPaul

Pergamum said:


> ChristopherPaul: No belittling intended. Praise God for the stewardship of one of your highest treasures, your family. I apologize if I did so. I just wanted to stress the point of comprehension over rote memory...but it certainly sounds like you have your house in order. I could learn a few lessons from you!



Thanks Pergamum. I don't mind disagreement in philosophies on learning so much, but was taken back a bit by the statement that my methods are achieving the same things as a mere children's game. I am just encouraged that we can discuss teaching children Biblical doctrine with fellow saints. The end result is learning the very words of God!


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## Kevin

Memorize first, understand later. 

If you wait until your children can "understand" the important theological issues involved then you will never start. Would anyone wait to teach scripture to their children until the kids could "understand it"? I pray not.

I sincerely believe that God honours his word. A correct reply given without full comprehension, is better than a fully understood error.


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## JBaldwin

Kevin said:


> Memorize first, understand later.
> 
> If you wait until your children can "understand" the important theological issues involved then you will never start. Would anyone wait to teach scripture to their children until the kids could "understand it"? I pray not.
> 
> I sincerely believe that God honours his word. A correct reply given without full comprehension, is better than a fully understood error.



I couldn't agree with you more, Kevin. I was required to memorize a lot of Scripture as a child, and much of it I did not understand. Today, I praise God that I know it. The Spirit of God brings it back to me over and over again. 

Regarding memorizing the catechism. My daughter learned about 20 of the questions at age 5 and my other daughter at 10 memorized the entire 145 questions. What I find interesting is that my youngest, now 7, has a renewed interest in learning the catechism and is learning it on her own. Over the last several months, she has been asking me questions about what she has learned.


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## kvanlaan

We're doing it in two stages. First, we go through the 3FU together as a family, explaining along the way. Then, next year, we'll have gone through all 52 Lord's Days and when we start memorizing it at that time, they will also understand what it is they are memorizing. We do something similar with Bible reading. We'd like to do a chapter a day after each meal, but sometimes (like today at lunch) we spent almost an hour on two verses because of the discussion we had on it. With our kids we'd rather go deep than broad, at this point (the ones at the table are 10, 9, 7 and 4, so some can handle more depth than others).


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## kvanlaan

> Memorize first, understand later.



We do this with some Scripture now (in homeschooling), but we do try to explain it to some degree first.


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