# 'Affinity'



## grace2U (Jun 7, 2004)

Here in the UK, a serious attempt to promote unity among Bible-believing churches has just been launched.

http://www.affinity.org.uk

I wonder what you guys make of it?

Steve

[Edited on 6-8-2004 by webmaster]


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## rembrandt (Jun 8, 2004)




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## JonathonHunt (Jun 8, 2004)

Affinity - the relaunch of the British Evangelical Council - is another attempt to succeed where 'Essentially Evangelical' failed. i.e. to promote formal relations between independent believers and those in deeply compromised denominations such as the church of england. If you believe that secondary seperation is right, as I do (as did the founder of the British Evangelical Council - the forerunner of 'Affinity') you would not be able to support this venture.

Affinity has a very minimal basis of faith which leaves it open to all sorts of compromise.

Affinity is being led and supported by major advocates of the new, 'worldly' worship style as embodied in the new FIEC/Grace Churches Hymbook, 'Praise!'.

Affinity claims to be providing an alternative to the voice of the Evangelical Alliance, which is essentially charismatic in makeup - what they term 'experiential' . However, 'Affinity' has member churches and 'denominations' within it which are charismatic already.

I recognise the sincerity of those working in this re-launch, however I cannot see that this project will make much difference, apart from drawing another line down British Christianity. Some groups will leave affinity in due course, others may join. Give it five years, it will still be there, but there will be a significant proportion of Bible churches it won't represent.

I would [b:1ef1351813]love[/b:1ef1351813] to be able to support such a venture here in the UK. My conscience dictates otherwise, because in seeking to make itself 'broad' and accessible to many churches, 'Affinity' skirts issues which, to me, are imperative for the church in these desperate days. I take no joy in the fact that I am not a part of this work - none at all. No 'grim satisfaction', as the director of Affinity would suggest.

The dishonesty in the images used in the launch DVD is yet another matter...


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## duke (Jun 8, 2004)

LOL ... 'worldy' worship style??? You really are a follower of Peter Masters

Lets look at the positive. That &quot;Praise&quot; hymn book will be used in many churches that have been on the whole CCM worship bandwagon and who now find it a tad shallow. If using &quot;Praise&quot; can give members a new appreciation for the Psalms sung in worship and for hymns that have been used for hundreds of years then GOOD. Do you not agree? I have to admit that I am not convinced by all of Peter Masters teaching regarding worship (but much of it is needed today). I know of lively modern hymns which are amongst the most Christ centred and God glorifying ever written. Words need to match the music ... so if the words are expressing joy over salvation then the music should try and capture the serious joy a Christian has etc. But what this exactly equates to regarding musical notes will vary from person to person.

I think many reformed churches in UK need to go back to the Bible and re-examine the Word relating to unity (what sort of unity is required) and the Word relating to seperation (what sort of seperation is required). Where I come from in Northern Ireland churches are incredibly isolationist in there dealings with other churches. Mostly these divisions are along the following lines (honestly): womens headcoverings / hats; Bible versions; Eschatology. 

I hope Affinity will be used by God to help at least some church leaderships to reasses the Word on these important issue for the sake of the Gospel in a pagan culture.

Duke.


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 8, 2004)

[quote:c8f7bf02bd][i:c8f7bf02bd]Originally posted by duke[/i:c8f7bf02bd]
LOL ... 'worldy' worship style??? You really are a follower of Peter Masters[/quote:c8f7bf02bd]

I did put it in inverted commas, my friend. I don't entirely concur on the use of the word. Perhaps I prefer the word 'irreverant'. I would rather not be known as a follower of any man - we should treat him with respect, despite the fact we might not agree with him in every little detail ( I don't).

[quote:c8f7bf02bd]Lets look at the positive. That &quot;Praise&quot; hymn book will be used in many churches that have been on the whole CCM worship bandwagon and who now find it a tad shallow. If using &quot;Praise&quot; can give members a new appreciation for the Psalms sung in worship and for hymns that have been used for hundreds of years then GOOD. Do you not agree?[/quote:c8f7bf02bd]

You are quite correct. For some churches, Praise represents an 'upgrade'. But in moving from older and better hymnbooks to Praise!, other churches are downgrading, not upgrading their worship. And there are hymnbooks out there which enable you to sing plenty of psalms. It is not the exclusive preserve of Praise! 

[quote:c8f7bf02bd]I know of lively modern hymns which are amongst the most Christ centred and God glorifying ever written. Words need to match the music ... so if the words are expressing joy over salvation then the music should try and capture the serious joy a Christian has etc. But what this exactly equates to regarding musical notes will vary from person to person[/quote:c8f7bf02bd]

Again correct. But it doesn't need a full orchestra down the front of the church, heavy drum-rhythms and so forth, which the Praise! project has promoted via their various issued CDs.

[quote:c8f7bf02bd]I think many reformed churches in UK need to go back to the Bible and re-examine the Word relating to unity (what sort of unity is required) and the Word relating to seperation (what sort of seperation is required). Where I come from in Northern Ireland churches are incredibly isolationist in there dealings with other churches. Mostly these divisions are along the following lines (honestly): womens headcoverings / hats; Bible versions; Eschatology. [/quote:c8f7bf02bd]

As I have mentioned here on the boards before, Northern Ireland is a bit of a special case, so unutterably complicated as to be beyond belief. I for one cannot reconcile the actions of many 'believers' in NI with their duty to lost souls. That said, the things you mention are indeed sad reasons for seperation between churches. Would Baptist Churches have Presbyterian men filling their pulpits occasionally? Dr Masters would, so would my current church. Would we have men who used different bible versions as a general rule? yes. Different eschatology? Yes. From my perspective there is a deep longing for fellowship among believers. At the School of Theology where 1000 or so meet together every July there is a great deal of this fellowship, and the same thing happens at other meetings countrywide.

[quote:c8f7bf02bd]I hope Affinity will be used by God to help at least some church leaderships to reasses the Word on these important issue for the sake of the Gospel in a pagan culture.

Duke. [/quote:c8f7bf02bd]

And what purpose will it serve when the vast majority of churches in our land are neglecting their duty on a local level, not evangelising, not preaching the gospel, not sunday-schooling, not visiting their communities, not doing very much?

If every church of Christ in this land was mounting a strong and concerted witness, we would not be looking to para-church organisations to do our own work for us!

Unity = more conversions is a false premise! We somehow imagine that the world will be 'impressed' with us for uniting together? The world will be impressed with NOTHING and NOBODY. The Lord works by His appointed means. 

I for one long for unity, will strive for it, and will not allow secondary issues to derail it. But it comes down to what we call a secondary issue, doesn't it? For me, sound worship is not a secondary issue. 

Here is the affinity statement of faith:

***

1. The inerrancy of the Holy Scriptures as originally given, their verbal inspiration by God and their supreme authority as the only rule of faith and practice.

2. The Trinity of the Godhead: Father, Son and Holy Spirit, who are the same in substance, equal in power and glory.

3. The essential, absolute and eternal deity of the Lord Jesus Christ; his conception by the Holy Spirit; his virgin birth; his real but sinless humanity; his voluntary humiliation and obedience culminating in his substitutionary and atoning death as a sacrifice for sin; his bodily resurrection from the dead on the third day; his ascension into heaven as the only Mediator between God and man; and his coming again in power and glory.

4. The personality and deity of the Holy Spirit through whom the soul is born again to saving repentance and faith and by whom the saints are sanctified through the truth.

5. Man's total ruin through the fall and his salvation solely by grace through faith in Jesus Christ, whose righteousness imputed to him is the only ground of acceptance before God.

6. The resurrection of the body, the judgment of the world by our Lord Jesus Christ, the everlasting blessedness of the saved and the everlasting punishment of the lost.

7. The spiritual unity of all who truly believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and their duty to maintain in themselves and in the Church a standard of life and doctrine that is in conformity with the teaching of God's Holy Word.

***

For me, it just isn't enough. It is wide open.

I'd just repeat my last para:

I would love to be able to support such a venture here in the UK. My conscience dictates otherwise, because in seeking to make itself 'broad' and accessible to many churches, 'Affinity' skirts issues which, to me, are imperative for the church in these desperate days. I take no joy in the fact that I am not a part of this work - none at all. No 'grim satisfaction', as the director of Affinity would suggest.


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## duke (Jun 8, 2004)

I pretty much agree with you then. I too am a local church man (even though I am a member of a Presbyterian church) and do think there are way too many para-church organisations out there (even though some of them are excellent).

I've been to the School of Theology in the Met Tab before. It's were I came to hear Joel Beeke ... a favourite preacher of mine now. I found it rather spiritually uplifting to see so many poeple there who wanted to understand God's Word and our world better.

By the way ... did you happen to watch the Channel 4 documentary last night called &quot;God is Black&quot;? 

Duke


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 8, 2004)

Duke, funny you mentioned that documentary. My wife's finger hovered over it on the on-screen tv guide and I said 'no way, its channel four, its going to be irritating garbage'...

What was it about?

Joel Beeke is back this year... when next you come, if you do, find me! I'm always on the registration desk even though I'm not a tabernacle member any more!


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## duke (Jun 8, 2004)

HAHAHAHA ... it was irritating and sad. It was about the explosion of Christianity in Africa and Nigeria in particular. The presenter was a practising homosexual Christian. He travelled to some small rural liberal Anglican churches in England and then went to the Anglican church in Nigeria to see the differences (the Bishop there said the homosexuality was an abomination) etc. He also went to the independent churches springing up which nearly all seemed to be health and wealth extreme pentecostal churches. Many of these had over 100,000 poeple every Sunday. One church had around 1000,000 poeple at it.

He then lumped both the coservative Anglican church and these independent cults together and concluded that if both had an influence on the UK church culture it would be devestating.

I think the second part is on next week. Basically it was bad investigative journalism and poor social commentary. Oddly enough, perhaps Channel 5 would have done a better job. It was sad ... because I know many poeple will watch it and think that ALL church going poeple are nuts.

I certainly will look you up the next time I am at the LST. I am in London with my wife a few times a year on work business but have tended to go to All Souls or St Helens for worship. Maybe I will get a chance to meet you next time I'm over.

Duke.


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 8, 2004)

I'm not in London these days, but in Cheltenham. I always make the SoT though. However, I'd really recommend catching a Sunday Service at the Tab next time you are there. I have friends at St Helens who speak highly of it. Perhaps do one in the morning and one in the evening? lol


As for that programme, I am obviously a very discerning channel hopper! The subject of the crazy extremes in the Nigerian Church at large is a vexed one. Dr Masters is broadcast on Nigerian TV regularly as some sort of countermeasure, and a Pastor over there has just published a book railing against the excess - 'Contemporary issues in the Nigerian Church today' By F Sogi George. He is a Pastor in the Capital, Lagos, and director of the Spurgeon Study Centre there. Several charismatic church leaders have visited the study facility to view videos and read books. 

All measures taken in Nigeria are like a drop in the ocean, it seems...

Anyway, this is rather a long way from the 'affinity' topic...


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## FrozenChosen (Jun 8, 2004)

It makes me happy to see people in the British Isles talk to each other, even on the Internet. It'd be fun to listen to in real life too.

Dang, I need to apply for a study-abroad semester grant.

Hmm.


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## Ianterrell (Jun 8, 2004)

Do you guys live on the same Island? In the states we have miles and miles seperating us from like-minded brothers.


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 9, 2004)

No, Duke's on a different Island, but not that far away. Grace2u is about 150 or so miles from me I suppose.

I meet with 40 or so 'likeminded brethren' every Lord's Day lol...


I don't know about this for sure but I think that as a proportion of the whole there might be more calvinistic christians in proportion to the total number of christians, here in the UK than there are in the USA


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## duke (Jun 9, 2004)

Ian ... I live in Belfast, Northern Ireland. I would be a 30-40 minute flight away from London. My nearest like minded brother lives only 5 minutes away from me.

FrozenChosen ... why would it be fun to listen to us in real life?


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## Puritan Sailor (Jun 9, 2004)

Duke you have a U2U. Upper right hand corner of the page.


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## duke (Jun 9, 2004)

Just figured out what that is. Thanks and sorry.


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## grace2U (Jun 9, 2004)

Hi Jonathan,
I agree with much of what you say, but on the other hand I'm always conscious of Mark 9:38-40. My separation is only one-stage; I know some really good, evangelical Anglican churches, and whilst I agree with you that they ought to come out, I'm not prepared to judge someone else's servant.

Whether [i:b2a2274500]Affinity[/i:b2a2274500] will achieve anything, I'm not sure. At a local level, there might be the possibility of fellowship, conferences, joint evangelism and, if the theologies are close enough, pulpit exchange. All the [i:b2a2274500]Affinity[/i:b2a2274500] churches near me are pretty sound. At a national level, it would be nice to have a public voice for evangelicalism. For the benefit of any Americans reading, the only 'Christian' voices one tends to hear on the mainstream Television are those of the Arch-druid of Canterbury, the (RC) Archbishop of Westminster
or occasionally the charismatic chairman of the (not very) Evangelical Alliance.

BTW, Jonathan; I'm hoping to come to the Met Tab SOT meetings in July. Maybe we could meet up.

Every blessing,
Steve


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## JonathonHunt (Jun 10, 2004)

[quote:fa351d6bfd][i:fa351d6bfd]Originally posted by grace2U[/i:fa351d6bfd]
Hi Jonathan,
I agree with much of what you say, but on the other hand I'm always conscious of Mark 9:38-40. My separation is only one-stage; I know some really good, evangelical Anglican churches, and whilst I agree with you that they ought to come out, I'm not prepared to judge someone else's servant.

Whether [i:fa351d6bfd]Affinity[/i:fa351d6bfd] will achieve anything, I'm not sure. At a local level, there might be the possibility of fellowship, conferences, joint evangelism and, if the theologies are close enough, pulpit exchange. All the [i:fa351d6bfd]Affinity[/i:fa351d6bfd] churches near me are pretty sound. At a national level, it would be nice to have a public voice for evangelicalism. For the benefit of any Americans reading, the only 'Christian' voices one tends to hear on the mainstream Television are those of the Arch-druid of Canterbury, the (RC) Archbishop of Westminster
or occasionally the charismatic chairman of the (not very) Evangelical Alliance.

BTW, Jonathan; I'm hoping to come to the Met Tab SOT meetings in July. Maybe we could meet up.

Every blessing,
Steve [/quote:fa351d6bfd]

Steve

You suprised me! I think your comments on affinity are quite balanced - I would have expected you to be unreservedly 'in favour'. Most FIEC voices I have heard have been 100% optimistic and convinced.

Yes, it would be great to have more fellowship with other churches, but speaking personally, we have fellowship with six other local churches in cheltenham/gloucester, without the aid of any 'tag' identifying them as 'one of us'. The question of joint evangelism etc is really dependent upon the will of people to be evangelistic - and as you might know, this is not very strong - may God have mercy upon us.

I know good anglicans too, and I would fellowship with them, but I would not join in fellowship with them. The big 'problem' with being an evangelical anglican is that as a local pastor (vicar) you accept the authority of your bishop as part and parcel of your post. Could you accept the authority of a female-ordaining, pro-homosexual man? Many bishops take these stances and worse. Anyway, this is getting off the subject!

It would be good to meet you at SoT in July - I'm always on the registration desk on the tuesday startup period, helping out.

I have sent you a U2U.

Jonathan


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