# Introduciton to Logic - a good place to start?



## SoldierOfTheRock (Aug 26, 2004)

Howdy everybody,
I am just a few days in here at Cedarville University and find that I need to learn logic. I am really not suppossed to start the class till next year, but I want a head start. Logic can be used everywhere, so I am in need of learning it.

As you can tell by my post I do not get ideas acrossed very well, this may be due to the way I think, or because I am an idiot. I will work on the latter for the rest of my life.

I have heard of 'Introduction to Logic' by Copi & Cohen and was wondering what any of you thought of it. If there is a better book then please let me know. I myself am more looking to learn the logic that can be used to find false statements in others arguments. Being a Calvinist, debates are normal and I am able to see the false statements, but I just can't explain them during the conversations.

Any comments would be much appreciated,
Thanks in advance,
Joshua


----------



## SmokingFlax (Aug 26, 2004)

Well...

I think I'm in the same boat as you on this issue of ...

"I am able to see the false statements, but I just can't explain them during the conversations. " ...at least not in the blunt, two-by-four across the forehead way that I'd like to be able to point them out.

I've seen that book on logic that you mentioned being referred to as well. Actually, there's a collection of tapes on [u:1562faf018]Critical Thinking [/u:1562faf018]that Greg Bahnsen did that Covenant Media Foundation puts out (www.cmfnow.com) that also uses that book for the course too. I intend on buying it and learning the same when I can save up some dough -it's like $80.00 or so (for some 20 or so tapes)...but I think it will be worth it.

'Hope that helps.


----------



## ChristianTrader (Aug 27, 2004)

[quote:3a41fd5b2d="SmokingFlax"]Well...

I think I'm in the same boat as you on this issue of ...

"I am able to see the false statements, but I just can't explain them during the conversations. " ...at least not in the blunt, two-by-four across the forehead way that I'd like to be able to point them out.

I've seen that book on logic that you mentioned being referred to as well. Actually, there's a collection of tapes on [u:3a41fd5b2d]Critical Thinking [/u:3a41fd5b2d]that Greg Bahnsen did that Covenant Media Foundation puts out (www.cmfnow.com) that also uses that book for the course too. I intend on buying it and learning the same when I can save up some dough -it's like $80.00 or so (for some 20 or so tapes)...but I think it will be worth it.

'Hope that helps.[/quote:3a41fd5b2d]

You can alos download the mp3 set for $20 from here: http://www.wordmp3.com/search.asp?item=121900.2

CT


----------



## JohnV (Aug 27, 2004)

I would suggest F.A. Schaeffer's [u:f27bfee584]He is There and He is Not Silent[/u:f27bfee584]
He outlines how Christianity is the only answer in this world of multitudes of theories. He culls them down to basic categories, and then shows how the Christian answer is the only one that answers, or statisfies the philosophical necessities. 

His approach to people was to hear their concern, to hear their questions. He did not think that an answer was an answer unless it caringly answered the person's questions or objections. He knew beforehand that any other philosophy could not hold up under scrutiny, but he did not therefore cast aside what a person thought. If the questioner was struggling to know the answers, then he should be willing to listen with care to that question or objection, and then to speak to that concern with the same care for the person. If he could show the same care for the questioner that Christ showed to us as sinners, then the questioner would know that the answers were deeper than mere scholastic know-how, but that they were a part of daily life, that there was really something there for him to hold onto in all the concerns and areas of daily life, as well as for his mind. He believed that answers had to satisfy the whole person.

Both this care for the unbeliever and the basics of understanding world-views are in this book. It is not a primer for logic per se, but it is still an important foundation-setting book, I think. 

Just a thought.


----------



## SoldierOfTheRock (Aug 27, 2004)

*Thanks*

Thanks John, I think I will check Cedarville's campus bookstore for that today after chapel.

I suppose you are 100% correct, I really need to care about those with whom I am discussing things. I have noticed this, especially after reading proverbs a few times an thinking of myself as the fool.

Thanks for the recommendation,
Joshua


----------



## Ianterrell (Aug 27, 2004)

The Copi Cohen book is excellent. Also check out With Good Reason: An Intro to Informal Fallacies by S. Morris Engel.


----------



## crhoades (Aug 27, 2004)

A good introductory course as well as an intermediate one can be found at canon press:
http://www.canonpress.org/pages/education.asp#introlog

VHS and DVD are available to supplement the books.

I have copi, engles, Bahnsen's Critical Thinking, as well as this one. One would think that I would be logical but my wife still says no...
uzzled:


----------



## JohnV (Aug 27, 2004)

Joshua:

Something just hit me: if you are going to a university library they should have a set of books called [u:dff18b5621]The Great Western Books[/u:dff18b5621] I got it through Encyclopaedia Britannica. What you do is read the introductory essays on the topics in the Syntopicon, [u:dff18b5621]The Great Ideas[/u:dff18b5621], the second and third books of the set. You don't have to read all the essays in full, but if you read the introductory sections of just a couple of the essays, such as the one on reason or the one on logic, it will help a great deal. It gives you a broad picture of the subject within the larger scope of the surrounding concepts.

You need to be discerning the more you get into those essays, but if you just remember that these are not the Bible, i.e., not infallible, you'll do just fine. It is just backdrop, and is quite helpful. The editorial staff of the series is an array of scholars from a wide variety of views, not just Christianity. 

Calvin's [u:dff18b5621]Institutes[/u:dff18b5621] was once a part of the entire series. Augustine's main three books still are, as are Thomas Aquinas's [u:dff18b5621]Summa[/u:dff18b5621], and Pascal's [u:dff18b5621]Pensees[/u:dff18b5621]. The KJV Bible is the default book, included first in every topic heading in the outlines. The Apocrypha is also included. So there is a considerable Christian influence in the discussion of these topics.


----------



## RickyReformed (Sep 6, 2004)

Joshua,

This website might be just what your looking for as it has reviews of many of the introductory logic textbooks and resources that are available, especially the Christian resources.

http://www.christianlogic.com/articles/logic_materials.htm

I found this one on a google search and it looks pretty interesting too, but I haven't checked it out thoroughly. Still, I think you and others might enjoy and benefit from it.

http://members.core.com/~tony233/Logic-Evidence-and-the-Christian-Faith.htm

Ricky


----------



## ANT (Nov 11, 2004)

I know that this is an older post, but I have read a couple solid books in the past couple years that you may be interested in checking into.

I have had the same problems and desperately wanted to know how to think and reason clearer when it comes to understanding and defending the faith against false and errant teachings.

Here are the books that I recommend .... 

Both books are written by Isaac Watts and published by Soli Deo Gloria ....

Book 1 ...

*LOGIC* - _The Right Use Of Reason In The Inquiry After Truth_

(Here's what the inside cover says) ...

The Puritans were convinced that the ability to think clearly was of the utmost importance whether a man was studying for the ministry or any other of the sciences. In their minds, if a man could not think clearly, he could not interpret the Bible correctly. This work on logic and reason by Isaac Watts (known primarily for his genius as a writer of hymns, but unfortunately unknown for his skills as a theologian) was a standard textbook for nearly 200 years.

In our day, common sense is not very common and clear thinking is not very clear. This book will help discipline the mind and train the reader to discern proper thinking and argumentation in seeking truth.


Book 2 ...

*THE IMPROVEMENT OF THE MIND* - _A Supplement To Logic_ *with* _A Discourse On The Education Of Children And Youth_

(Here's what the inside cover says) ...

"In the treatise on Logic, I observed that there are several other things which might assist in the cultivation of the mind and its improvements in knowledge, which are not usually represented among the principles or precepts of that art or science. These are the subjects which compose this book; these are the sentiments and rules." --- Isaac Watts


Again, I hope this post reaches you in time to make use of these tools. I have read both and have been rewarded greatly by them. They will not disapoint you.

You should be able to order them through Soli Deo Gloria as long as they are still in print.

By the way, has anybody else read these 2 books? I would be interested in hearing if you found them useful also ... thanks.


----------



## RickyReformed (Nov 13, 2004)

I hesitate to mention this free audio resource on logic by Dr. John Robbins, since he generally has a very negative reputation on most boards. Nevertheless, since it is free, I will post the links but encourage everyone to be discerning with this material. My intention is not to cause contention, but to provide a free resource on logic for those cannot afford to purchase some other set.

Look for "Collection 11" near the bottom of the page:
http://www.trinitylectures.org/MP3_downloads.php

For those want to spend a little more, WordMP3.com has Dr. Bahnsen's Logic Critical Thinking course available for download for a little over $20.00:
http://www.wordmp3.com/cart.asp?ItemID=270


I have both but cannot comment on them yet. I am starting with Dr. Robbins' Intro to Logic (since it appears to be more basic) and will then proceed to Dr. Bahnsen's course.




> Act 17:11 And these [the Bereans] were more noble than those of Thessalonica, in that they received the Word with all readiness of mind *and searched the Scriptures daily to see if those things were so.* (emphasis added)


----------



## RamistThomist (Nov 13, 2004)

The only comment I would offer on the Bahnsen series is that I couldn't download them onto CD. Some of the lectures (I only ordered two) were more than 80 minutes long and my player wouldn't burn it. I did get his fallacies on tape and it was great.


----------



## RickyReformed (Nov 13, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Finn McCool_
> The only comment I would offer on the Bahnsen series is that I couldn't download them onto CD. Some of the lectures (I only ordered two) were more than 80 minutes long and my player wouldn't burn it. I did get his fallacies on tape and it was great.



Finn,

Did you mean you couldn't burn the mp3's to audio CD (like for listening in portable CD player?) My solution was to purchase a portable mp3 player with a cassette adapter at Walmart. I now listen to them on my way to and from work. If you have a CD player in your car (and can't use the cassette adapter) I've used portable speakers that plug in to the mp3 player and I've also used the ear buds - but just in one ear so I can hear someone blasting their horn at me!

Ricky


----------



## RamistThomist (Nov 13, 2004)

Isn't against the law to drive with headphones on?


----------



## RickyReformed (Nov 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by Finn McCool_
> Isn't against the law to drive with headphones on?



Maybe in the Commonwealth of Louisiana........ 









But seriously, if that's the case where you live you can buy the speakers I mentioned and place them in the seat next to you (or wherever.)


----------



## RamistThomist (Nov 14, 2004)

> _Originally posted by RickyReformed_
> 
> 
> 
> But seriously, if that's the case where you live you can buy the speakers I mentioned and place them in the seat next to you (or wherever.)



I thought about that


----------



## RickyReformed (Nov 14, 2004)

I used them for a while when I had a truck with no radio.  It's not exactly Dolby surround sound  but it does work.


----------

