# Rob Bell is at it again with his new book



## jawyman

I am not certain if this is the right forum, so a moderator may move it to a more appropriate forum if need be, but here is what Rob Bell is teaching about hell. This is from Kevin DeYoung's blog on the Gospel Coalition website.

Kevin DeYoung


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

Justin Taylor as well.


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## fredtgreco

I saw this, and posted it to my FB. I may blog about it next week, because I believe it is very significant. I am actually grateful that this bad theology - no, damning theology - is being made public. In that way, it can be combated by the light of day.


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## lynnie

Whew.

He makes annilhilation doctrine look good.....


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt

There can be no good news without the existence of and/or the denigration of the purpose of Hell and the wrath of God.

What do we need to be saved from? What purpose is there in Christ if there is no wrath to come?

They're basically implying that God wasted His son for no reason...

Who but a fool can state that about the Son of God and think that they are correct?

There are days where I believe those who never professed the name of Christ will be far better off at the Day of Judgment than those who pull these kinds of stunts.


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## Grillsy

It will be interesting to see what the book says when it is released. It will see a lot of copies I am sure. It will undoubtedly sway some folks like his other tomes. 
I just want to see his argumentation. It will be his usual weak, humanistic sophistry I am sure.


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## Micah Everett

Wow. I'm not surprised that Rob Bell believes this, but will admit to being a bit surprised that he has said it so openly.


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## JonathanHunt

He's coming to my home town this year, along with Brian Mclaren and Phyllis Tickle. The unholy trinity, if ever there was one.


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## kvanlaan

He's just following in the footsteps of the Emperor of the Dark Side, Brian McLaren. Every Sith Lord does.

Cmon, loosen up - God has faith in you, and hell is no longer existant. Bell's take on it was good, but McLaren goes one further and says that the sacking of Jerusalem and the destruction of the temple is the judgment that the Bible foretold. We're all done! So let's continue in sin, that grace may abound!

From the podcast on bleedingpurple:


> McLaren: This is, one of the huge problems is the traditional understanding of hell. Because if the cross is in line with Jesus’ teaching then—I won’t say, the only, and I certainly won’t say even the primary—but a primary meaning of the cross is that the kingdom of God doesn’t come like the kingdoms of the this world, by inflicting violence and coercing people. But that the kingdom of God comes through suffering and willing, voluntary sacrifice. But in an ironic way, the doctrine of hell basically says, no, that that’s not really true. That in the end, God gets His way through coercion and violence and intimidation and domination, just like every other kingdom does. The cross isn’t the center then. The cross is almost a distraction and false advertising for God.


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## Christopher88

The sad thing is; I know Christians who love this guy and will take his word at gold. Before coming to the truths of the reformed faith, I did follow this guy. 

Christianity is exposed to this evil, and has become swayed by it. Rob Bell is like the boy who can shave, sweet talk his way into a relationship but does harm, even can cause death.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

I believe we'll see some more folks start to openly admit to holding a similar position to Bell. There are plenty of closet Universalists out there and even more annihilationists.


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## jawyman

I look forward to read the apologetics on this. I am from Grand Rapids, so I oftentimes feel like I am on the front-lines of the war on heresy. Rob Bell is a very dangerous man.


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## lynnie

My husband watched the video and pointed out that RB actually does grasp that the message of traditional evangelical Christianity is that God is the one who needs to be satisfied in salvation, as opposed to rescuing us from the devil, etc. He rejects it, but he does properly grasp the true gospel we hold to.


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## kvanlaan

Lynnie, that's part of what really bothers me about the man. It is deception, pure and simple; he is twisting a beautiful thing and whoring a pure woman. And some of my family would make a hajj to Grand Rapids just to hear him in person.


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## Micah Everett

I wonder if having him speak while walking outside in the snow is an intentional device to make the orthodox teaching about God, Heaven, Hell, and salvation that he is caricaturing seem cold and unfeeling.

(...or, if that's just because it's winter and he's in Grand Rapids, and I'm reading too much into his staging....)


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## jawyman

@ Kevin, let me just say a hajj to Grand Rapids cracked me up. I'm from here and it always fascinates me that people come to GR on purpose, let alone to hear RB spew forth his tripe.

@ Micah, there is no escape from the snow in GR. He is walking around outside in the snow, because during this time of year we have no other choice


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## kvanlaan

Grand Rapids is definitely a destination when you grow up in the CRC. Up here, it's called "Jerusalem North".


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## Marrow Man

The sermon text from this morning (2 Peter 2:1-3):



> 1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
> 
> 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
> 
> 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.


This is nothing new. There will always be false teachers among God's people. Flee from them and don't cozy up them like Korah's tent.


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## Ivan

I've never read anything by Rob Bell. I don't even know who he is, but after all the fuss I think I want to read the book and find out what is going on.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

Marrow Man said:


> The sermon text from this morning (2 Peter 2:1-3):
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 1But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing swift destruction upon themselves.
> 
> 2Many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of the truth will be maligned;
> 
> 3and in their greed they will exploit you with false words; their judgment from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep.
> 
> 
> 
> This is nothing new. There will always be false teachers among God's people. Flee from them and don't cozy up them like Korah's tent.
Click to expand...

 
Providentially we also found ourself in a text that deals directly with this issue. Amos 5:16-27 which specifically mentions the "Day of the Lord" and Israel's failure to prepare for it and its false hope in its own righteousness.


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## Marrow Man

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Amos 5:16-27 which specifically mentions the "Day of the Lord" and Israel's failure to prepare for it and its false hope in its own righteousness.



Yep, that'll preach.


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## TheElk

Yep, I live 15 minutes away from this guys church. It's sad.


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## DMcFadden

Mr. Bell is one of the most "illustrious" graduates of my alma mater. Inhaling the heady air of Pasadena, he heard these things the same place I did, from our profs. Graduating several years before Bell, annihilation was taught/promoted in my Sys Theo III class way back in the '70s when Bell was in 1st grade!

To my extreme dismay, he is uber popular with many young evangelicals.


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## Micah Everett

jawyman said:


> @ Micah, there is no escape from the snow in GR. He is walking around outside in the snow, because during this time of year we have no other choice



I suppose so. Leave it to a musician to overanalyze things like staging.

[SIZE="-5"](...but he COULD have done it inside! Just saying....)[/SIZE]


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## Grillsy

I was required to watch/read everything he did during my undergraduate work.


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## Andres

Grillsy said:


> I was required to watch/read everything he did during my undergraduate work.


 
I'm sorry


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## Grillsy

Andres said:


> I'm sorry



That which does not kill me only makes me stronger 

With each Nooma video it seemed like he would get progressively worse. 

I had to read Bell's first book right along side McLaren's _Generous Orthodoxy_ for one theology class. 
Many of the other students took every word of Bell's as truth. Many of the same students were very leery of MacLaren. I found that very interesting.


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## Notthemama1984

Micah Everett said:


> jawyman said:
> 
> 
> 
> @ Micah, there is no escape from the snow in GR. He is walking around outside in the snow, because during this time of year we have no other choice
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I suppose so. Leave it to a musician to overanalyze things like staging.
> 
> [SIZE="-5"](...but he COULD have done it inside! Just saying....)[/SIZE]
Click to expand...


I am with you, Micah. I thought it was intentional. Big producers do not do anything without serious thought going into it.


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## Kevin

here is a blogger that has read the book; Being The Body: Love Wins

I am no Rob Bell "fanboy", hey I can't even think of anything nicer to say about him then "I'm not a fan". but it seems like the stoning should wait until we have the book in hand, n'est pas?


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## Gforce9

I had a debate with a young man on Facebook about this. In his diatribe, he denied the immutability of God as well as Original Sin. In the same few paragraphs, he embraced syncretism and antinomianism......


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## Ivan

Kevin said:


> here is a blogger that has read the book; Being The Body: Love Wins
> 
> I am no Rob Bell "fanboy", hey I can't even think of anything nicer to say about him then "I'm not a fan". but it seems like the stoning should wait until we have the book in hand, n'est pas?


 
As I stated earlier, since all this fuss has taken place I will now read the book.


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## Joseph Scibbe

With all due respect, I know this is a Reformed board and Rob Bell certainly does not fall under that but I think it is very close to a ninth commandment violation to be speaking ill of a book that we have not read. We are going off the assumptions and thoughts put forth in a blog whose author has not read the book either. If he does say that he is universalist in his book then we can discuss the implications from their. If you have not read the book you have no right to be making definitive statements about what he says in it.


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## ChristianTrader

I think the weird thing is that many seem to think that these questions have not been dealt with before? I think this is the best take on the issue yet, Rob Bell and the Judgmentless


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## Micah Everett

Unashamed 116 said:


> With all due respect, I know this is a Reformed board and Rob Bell certainly does not fall under that but I think it is very close to a ninth commandment violation to be speaking ill of a book that we have not read. We are going off the assumptions and thoughts put forth in a blog whose author has not read the book either. If he does say that he is universalist in his book then we can discuss the implications from their. If you have not read the book you have no right to be making definitive statements about what he says in it.



Does Bell's own promotional video for the book not establish, at the very least, universalistic tendencies? I see no ninth commandment violation here, given that most comments here seem to be about the video, which we have seen, not the book, which we have not read.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

It is not like we need this book by Bell to know he has universalistic teaching.


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## Backwoods Presbyterian

Kevin DeYoung nails it.

Two Thoughts on the Rob Bell Brouhaha – Kevin DeYoung


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## SolaSaint

I don't know Bell and McLaren's hearts, but I must wonder of their sencerity. Do men like these truly believe in the drivel they produce that diminishes the attributes of God and twists scripture to fit their theology? Or are they aware of the many weak minded professing christians today, and thus come up with this heresy to make lots of money. I guess we'll never know this side of eternity.


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## TheElk

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> Kevin DeYoung nails it.
> 
> Two Thoughts on the Rob Bell Brouhaha – Kevin DeYoung


 
Fantastic read!


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## kvanlaan

Yep, I think Kevin DeYoung nails it too. Unless the book is called: "Love Wins - why I am recanting a large portion of everything I've ever taught", then I don't think that the criticisms can be termed 'pot shots' or the like.


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## kvanlaan

We are on septic here in the countryside, and I have the unenviable job of taking care of it (it's about 50 years old, it has issues sometimes, especially when the kids throw toys down the commode). I know what comes out of the discharge pipe into the tank, I've seen it many times. It would take a miracle for chocolate milkshake to come out of the discharge pipe, no matter how much it may look like milkshake, I know the nature of the pipe, I know its function, I know its source. I have seen too much of the emergent ilk to expect good things of this book.


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## Micah Everett

Al Mohler nails it, as well.


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## discipulo

fredtgreco said:


> I saw this, and posted it to my FB. I may blog about it next week, because I believe it is very significant. I am actually grateful that this bad theology - no, damning theology - is being made public. In that way, it can be combated by the light of day.



Totally agree with Pastor Greco.

Like Justyn Taylor also says:

_But it is better for those teaching false doctrine to put their cards on the table (a la Brian 

McLaren) rather than remaining studiously ambiguous in terminology.

So on that level, I’m glad that Rob Bell has the integrity to be lay his cards on the table about universalism. _

Remember how much ink was spilled over Barth's hide and seek game? 

One verse from Scripture is particularly clear on this:

_*For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. *_1Corinthians 11:19

Hairesies is of course also the greek word in 2 Peter 2:1 and Galatians 5:20


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## R Harris

DMcFadden said:


> Mr. Bell is one of the most "illustrious" graduates of my alma mater. Inhaling the heady air of Pasadena, he heard these things the same place I did, from our profs. Graduating several years before Bell, annihilation was taught/promoted in my Sys Theo III class way back in the '70s when Bell was in 1st grade!



Fuller was teaching annihilation back in the *1970s*?

Wow, just wow. From just what I had heard at the time, I thought in the late 1980s that Fuller had started heading south and making shipwreck of the faith, but I had no idea it was going on much earlier. Absolutely incredible.


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## toddpedlar

Kevin said:


> here is a blogger that has read the book; Being The Body: Love Wins
> 
> I am no Rob Bell "fanboy", hey I can't even think of anything nicer to say about him then "I'm not a fan". but it seems like the stoning should wait until we have the book in hand, n'est pas?


 
Stoning could easily be warranted based on the video alone. No need to wait for the book.


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## kvanlaan

Micah, thanks for that. Mohler always approaches things in a calm but incisive manner, very helpful (I appreciate the lack of foaming at the mouth).


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## Notthemama1984

How popular is Rob Bell? Is he worth the reaction that he seems to be getting?


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## Grillsy

Chaplainintraining said:


> How popular is Rob Bell? Is he worth the reaction that he seems to be getting?



He is extremely popular. Especially with the younger folks and hipsters.


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## Notthemama1984

Grillsy said:


> Chaplainintraining said:
> 
> 
> 
> How popular is Rob Bell? Is he worth the reaction that he seems to be getting?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> He is extremely popular. Especially with the younger folks and hipsters.
Click to expand...


Maybe we should encourage Driscoll to be the macho man 

(Mars Hill vs. Mars Hill on PPV, it might work.)


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## Grillsy

Chaplainintraining said:


> (Mars Hill vs. Mars Hill on PPV, it might work.)


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## discipulo

kvanlaan said:


> Micah, thanks for that. Mohler always approaches things in a calm but incisive manner, very helpful (I appreciate the lack of foaming at the mouth).


 
Indeed. I had only read Justin Taylor, and yes, it is good to keep it

Fortiter in re suaviter in modo, as Gresham Machen said. 

I wonder, watching how evangelicalism fell into the semi pelagin captivity snare, if Universalism, 

won't be the next trend, leading to a transversal Ecumenisml, a Sincretic United Nations of Religion.

Peace for our Time, said Chamberlain after meeting Adolf Hitler, the Wolf about to undress his Sheep clothes


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## torstar

I agree to fully cooperate if the true church agrees to a 7-year moratorium on mentioning this book and giving it free publicity.


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## Notthemama1984

Refuting heresy = free publicity?


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## kvanlaan

Unfortunately, sometimes it does.


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## torstar

Refuting heresy and free publicity are not mutually exclusive.

He couldn't care less what his critics say, he probably LOVES IT that he has again raised such a stir.

And helped sell way more copies.


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## interalia

discipulo said:


> Remember how much ink was spilled over Barth's hide and seek game?
> 
> One verse from Scripture is particularly clear on this:
> 
> _*For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. *_1Corinthians 11:19
> 
> Hairesies is of course also the greek word in 2 Peter 2:1 and Galatians 5:20


 
A few distictions between Barth and Bell must be said. Please note for the record that I by no means endorse Barth's universalist-leaning soteriology, but this is apples and oranges vis a vis Bell. Bell is worse.

-Barth gets his universalist badge mainly from his essay "The Humanity of God." I just re-read it to be sure, but he never overtly states an adherence to pure universalism...just says as a conclusion, "This much is certain, that we have no theological right to set any sort of limits to the loving-kindness of God which has appeared in Jesus Christ." Now, I disagree, but that is not the same as suggesting definitively that "hell is empty," and thereby completely misappropriating a correct theological sense of God's justice, wrath, and therefore, the significance of substitutionary atontement. If one "understands" Barth in his high regard for Christology and Sovereignty, then one could see how this is a logical outflow (though incorrect) of his thought.

-I will defend Barth as far as suggesting that Bell could only wish to have the mental horsepower of Barth, or any other significant theologian, for that matter. Bell will forever be relegated to the mediocre mass media...though his wild fame is horrifying as American evangelicals largely struggle with using their minds to critically analyze their faith and other worldviews.

All this to say because I, like many of you, value clarity. We are dealing with a huge threat of mediocre thought and writing, with heretical theology, from Bell.


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## captivewill

He is very popular and thus very dangerous.....and smells like smoke.


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## SRoper

ChristianTrader said:


> I think the weird thing is that many seem to think that these questions have not been dealt with before? I think this is the best take on the issue yet, Rob Bell and the Judgmentless


 
Judgementless gospel. Perfect. I didn't have a term for this before. My charitable view of the Rob Bell video is that he will come out in a sort of CS Lewis view that hell is merely the absence of God, and we are not sent there, but we choose to go there when we choose to be without God for all eternity. Everyone gets what they want in the end. It's not biblical, but it's not universalism either.


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## discipulo

interalia said:


> discipulo said:
> 
> 
> 
> Remember how much ink was spilled over Barth's hide and seek game?
> 
> One verse from Scripture is particularly clear on this:
> 
> _*For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you. *_1Corinthians 11:19
> 
> Hairesies is of course also the greek word in 2 Peter 2:1 and Galatians 5:20
> 
> 
> 
> 
> A few distictions between Barth and Bell must be said. Please note for the record that I by no means endorse Barth's universalist-leaning soteriology, but this is apples and oranges vis a vis Bell. Bell is worse.
> 
> -Barth gets his universalist badge mainly from his essay "The Humanity of God." I just re-read it to be sure, but he never overtly states an adherence to pure universalism...just says as a conclusion, "This much is certain, that we have no theological right to set any sort of limits to the loving-kindness of God which has appeared in Jesus Christ." Now, I disagree, but that is not the same as suggesting definitively that "hell is empty," and thereby completely misappropriating a correct theological sense of God's justice, wrath, and therefore, the significance of substitutionary atontement. If one "understands" Barth in his high regard for Christology and Sovereignty, then one could see how this is a logical outflow (though incorrect) of his thought.
> 
> -I will defend Barth as far as suggesting that Bell could only wish to have the mental horsepower of Barth, or any other significant theologian, for that matter. Bell will forever be relegated to the mediocre mass media...though his wild fame is horrifying as American evangelicals largely struggle with using their minds to critically analyze their faith and other worldviews.
> 
> All this to say because I, like many of you, value clarity. We are dealing with a huge threat of mediocre thought and writing, with heretical theology, from Bell.
Click to expand...



Michael, my point was to make the contrast between Bell and someone who never claimed to be Universalist but never fully denied it either, Barth (all his twisted view of a Christomonistic Election and Universal Atonement leads to implicit Universalism), but there you are, we are changing these posts because Barth was never about his position, was he ever clear about anything really?

Of course few can claim the intelectuall caliber or theological knowldege of Barth, surely Bell is not in that league. Never the less he may be worse and more acessible, alas more dangerous, but at least he may be clear or honest about what he truly believes, that is what I meant.

But thank you for sharing on this. Like you said Clarity is the name of the game.


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## jawyman

SolaSaint said:


> I don't know Bell and McLaren's hearts, but I must wonder of their sencerity. Do men like these truly believe in the drivel they produce that diminishes the attributes of God and twists scripture to fit their theology? Or are they aware of the many weak minded professing christians today, and thus come up with this heresy to make lots of money. I guess we'll never know this side of eternity.



You are right Rick. None of us knows Bell and McLaren's hearts, but I personally believe their sincerity. They must believe "in the drivel they produce that diminishes the attributes of God and twists scripture to fit their theology," just as much as Peter Abelard in the twelfth century or Apollinaris, bishop of Laodicea or Arius or Donatus or Marcion or any of the others of the same ilk. 

What Bell and McLaren are teaching is not new. It is heresy in a 21st Century context. We must cleave to the truths of God's Word and remember the words of Solomon(??) from Ecclesiastes 1:9, "What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun."


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## LawrenceU

I've been out of town for the past three weeks and pretty much of off the internet, still I was very much aware of the latest Rob Bell fiasco. I was not surprised at all when I heard about what he has said and seems to be saying; it is consistent. I also will not be surprised when more people, some fairly visible, fall in line with his position. He and McLaren are merely verbal about a position that I run into all the time. The Biblical God is not popular. A great majority of the Western Church worships a god made after their own likeness. It is much more comfortable that way. . . for a season.


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## kvanlaan

> The Biblical God is not popular.



Ain't that the sad truth...


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## jawyman

I received this in my email a day or two ago and I thought to myself how providential.

Do the Wicked Go to Hell When They Die?
An Article
By: William Hendriksen
http://old.thirdmill.org/newfiles/wil_hendriksen/wil_hendriksen.Wicked.Go.Hell.html


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## Andres

This is why it's so important to have a Confession of faith. A Confession removes ambiguity from words and makes a person put all their cards on the table when it comes to what they believe. They can't hide behind made-up terms and they cannot mince words. Calvin touches on this in Book 1, Chapter 13, section 4 of The Institutes. Here is a snippet:



> Such novelty (if novelty it should be called) becomes most requisite, when the truth is to be maintained against calumniators who evade it by quibbling. Of this, we of the present day have too much experience in being constantly called upon to attack the enemies of pure and sound doctrine. These slippery snakes escape by their swift and tortuous windings, if not strenuously pursued, and when caught, firmly held. Thus the early Christians, when harassed with the disputes which heresies produced, were forced to declare their sentiments in terms most scrupulously exact in order that no indirect subterfuges might remain to ungodly men, to whom ambiguity of expression was a kind of hiding-place.


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## Oecolampadius

New York Times article on Rob Bell

It appears that the author of this article was given an advance copy of Bell's book and the following is what he says about the book:



> As the controversy exploded last week, HarperOne moved up to March 15 the publication date of Mr. Bell’s book, “Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate of Every Person Who Ever Lived.”
> 
> Judging from an advance copy, the 200-page book is unlikely to assuage Mr. Bell’s critics. In an elliptical style, he throws out probing questions about traditional biblical interpretations, mixing real-life stories with scripture.
> 
> Much of the book is a sometimes obscure discussion of the meaning of heaven and hell that tears away at the standard ideas. In his version, heaven is something that begins here on earth, in a life of goodness, and hell seems more a condition than an eternal fate — “the very real consequences we experience when we reject all the good and true and beautiful life that God has for us.”
> 
> While sliding close to what critics consider the heresy of “universalism” — that all humans will eventually be saved — he never uses the term.


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## torstar

Now the book has been freely publicized into the NY Times and onto Good Morning America.

Do the blogerazzi, even the good ones, get a cut of Rob's royalties for all of this work?

Oh, and give a read to the 200 comments on the NYT from the article. Oh, there are some angry folk out there with no sympathy for even Rob's questions....


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## kvanlaan

Wow, those comments are something else. I read 75 and was already choking on the 'god? - pshaw' attitude. You notice how liberals are never liberal?


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## calgal

I found his views as presented on YouTube & Good Morning America to be identical to the Mormon beliefs and am waiting for him to promote Baptism for the Dead next.


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## DMcFadden

One MSM source described the controversy this way:



> Excerpts from Rob Bell's Love Wins: A Book About Heaven, Hell, and the Fate
> of Every Person Who Has Ever Lived
> 
> "A staggering number of people have been taught that a few select Christians will spend forever in a peaceful, joyous place called heaven, while the rest of humanity spends forever in torment and punishment in hell with no chance for anything better. It's been clearly communicated to many that this belief is a central truth of the Christian faith and to reject it is, in essence, to reject Jesus. This is misguided and toxic and ultimately subverts the contagious spread of Jesus message of love, peace, forgiveness, and joy that our world desperately needs to hear."
> 
> "At the center of the Christian tradition since the first church has been the insistence that history is not tragic, hell is not forever, and love, in the end, wins."
> 
> "When people say they're tired of hearing about "sin" and "judgment: and "condemnation," it's often because those have been confused for them with the nature of God. God has no desire to inflict pain or agony on anyone."
> 
> "For some, the highest form of allegiance to their God is to attack, defame, and slander others who don't articulate matters of faith as they do."
> 
> "None of us have cornered the market on Jesus, and none of us ever will."
> In an exclusive interview with USA TODAY, Bell jokes: "I am not aware that labels are the highest form of goodness and truth." He rebuffs critics who say he presents a Jesus-optional Christianity: "Jesus spoke of the renewal of all things. He said, 'I have sheep who are not of this flock.' Through him, extraordinary things are happening in the world. If saying that gets you banned from the E-club, so be it."
> 
> Bell's view is "that God is love, that he sent Jesus to show us that love, that love demands freedom. So making definitive judgments about other people's destiny is not interesting to me. The heart of God is to rescue everyone from everything we need to be rescued from."
> 
> It's a mercy that Bell doesn't read his press or social networks.
> 
> Justin Taylor of the Gospel Coalition, a network of traditionalist scholars and pastors, says Bell's views are "dangerous and contrary to the word of God. ... If Bell doesn't believe in eternal punishment, then he doesn't think sin is an offense against a holy God."
> 
> It was Taylor's critique last month, based on reading a few chapters, that triggered explosive arguments radiating from Christian sites to CNN. Now that he has read all 200 pages, Taylor is even more convinced of Bell's errors. "Whether you like it or not, the Bible presents true teaching and warns against false teachers, even those who look like great people," says Taylor, digging at Bell's highly stylized videos circulating online and among churches coast to coast."
> 
> *But Richard Mouw, president of the world's largest Protestant seminary, Fuller Theological Seminary based in Pasadena, Calif., calls Love Wins "a great book, well within the bounds of orthodox Christianity and passionate about Jesus.
> 
> The real hellacious fight, says Mouw, a friend of Bell, a Fuller graduate, is between "generous orthodoxy and stingy orthodoxy. There are stingy people who just want to consign many others to hell and only a few to heaven and take delight in the idea. But Rob Bell allows for a lot of mystery in how Jesus reaches people."*



Last week my youngest was home from Grand Rapids. As to Ivan's question about how popular he is, my daughter said that her classmates at a Christian college were all pretty much dividing themselves over Rob Bell. A "bunch" of them were siding with Piper ("farewell Bell") and Driscoll in slamming the book as heresy. Another "bunch" (Rob Bell acolytes) seemed to defend him with a ferocity reserved only for things emergent. Wouldn't it be sweet if the inerrancy of Scripture could generate as much energy as the defense of Rob Bell?

My take? Bell is an "artiste" who appeals to artsy-fartsy types. In an environment of so much Calvinism gone to seed up there in the CRC "holy land," he has seemed a breath of fresh air in a world of too much chosen frozen stale orthodoxy more rationalistic than Christian.

Bell's shtick seems to be a retail commercialized version of what he heard in seminary. Even in my day when Bell was in first grade, some of my Presbyterian seminary profs belittled Francis Schaeffer, Carl Henry, and other evangelical icons. What was not treated with an "on the one hand . . . but on the other hand" paralysis of analysis was subjected to a "has God really said?" kind of reflexive questioning.

Most of Bell's critics say that he specializes in asking questions . . . endless numbers of largely unanswered questions. They prove him to be "open minded," "cool," "relevant," and "trendy." Indeed, asking questions seems to be preferred to answering them. "Mystery," fuzziness, uncertainty, and a professional stance of perpetual doubt all add to the "emergent" ethos.

A pastor friend of mine (actually an inlaw to one of my own kids) has been to Grand Rapids to a Bell conference. Here is his take:



> It's easy to throw out questions that have no answers. Children do that to their parents all day long. So I guess I think that Bell's style is rather childish in a world that is so screwed up (without a clue most of the time) that we need to spell out the truth the way the old-timers did--Edwards, Wesley (opposite poles), Carl Henry--even John Stott, Colson. These are guys that put forward answers, not puzzles, to a truth-starved world.
> 
> We are very close to the Great Apostasy as it is, and God's people need a clear trumpet sound, not a whimper from a piccolo.



There you have it: Dr. Mouw calls it a "great book" and my son's father-in-law dubs it a "whimper from a piccolo." I'm pretty sure that the truth is somewhere in between those two! 

Following the request from a daughter-in-law to read it and offer perspective, I purchased the Kindle version of the book and hope to read it tonight.


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## Michael

Martin Bashir picks Rob Bell apart: "You are amending the Gospel, the Christian message, so that it's palatable for contemporary people who find, for example, the idea of hell and heaven very difficult to stomach."

[video=youtube;Vg-qgmJ7nzA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vg-qgmJ7nzA[/video]


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## ryanhamre

*MSNBC Host Interviews Rob Bell*

Best Bell interview yet, and Rob gets his bell rung


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## Moireach

Complete heretic. It's worrying seeing so many of America's Christians being misled by idiots. What about Mark Driscoll is he any better?


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## torstar

Unashamed 116 said:


> With all due respect, I know this is a Reformed board and Rob Bell certainly does not fall under that but I think it is very close to a ninth commandment violation to be speaking ill of a book that we have not read. We are going off the assumptions and thoughts put forth in a blog whose author has not read the book either. If he does say that he is universalist in his book then we can discuss the implications from their. If you have not read the book you have no right to be making definitive statements about what he says in it.


 

Life is way too short to read that book.

I wouldn't insult the term "universalist" by calling the total rubbish he spouted to Bashir universalist.


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## ryanhamre

Moireach said:


> What about Mark Driscoll is he any better?



Here's Driscoll on the topic of hell- To Hell with Hell? | The Resurgence

So you tell me, is Mark Driscoll any better?


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## Moireach

Thanks for that. He seems to be much better.
I only asked because I was surprised to hear this guy was a founder of Mars Hill church which I've heard a lot of people talking about (particularly Driscoll).
Strange to have such differing views within one church (though Bell's not there anymore I don't think..?).


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## ryanhamre

Moireach said:


> I only asked because I was surprised to hear this guy was a founder of Mars Hill church which I've heard a lot of people talking about (particularly Driscoll).
> Strange to have such differing views within one church (though Bell's not there anymore I don't think..?).



Not the same church, no affiliation.

I almost don't believe they use the same Holy book...


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## torstar

Moireach said:


> Thanks for that. He seems to be much better.
> I only asked because I was surprised to hear this guy was a founder of Mars Hill church which I've heard a lot of people talking about (particularly Driscoll).
> Strange to have such differing views within one church (though Bell's not there anymore I don't think..?).


 

Driscoll abandoned those he started out with in the movement.


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## DMcFadden

Driscoll is uncompromising in his repudiation of Bell's positions. His YouTube on the Virgin birth criticizes both the Jesus Seminar and a certain young pastor who wrote a book . . . (without using Bell's name). The Bell acolytes screamed like stuck pigs in response, rightly reading Driscoll as criticizing their guy.

Both Piper and Driscoll have been sharply critical of the new Bell 200 pg. question mark. 

I honestly think that Bell has a hard time understanding what all of the fuss is about regarding his books, writings, and sermons. Because he attended a seminary that exalted in the asking of "questions," particularly very hard ones, he seems to see his shtick as benign. "Sheesh. I was just asking questions," one can almost hear him say. His devotees are fiercely defensive of him, echoing the pained reaction: "Why do so many negative people have to slander and defame a man of God? He does soooo much good."

When the president of your seminary is a philosopher who is a professional question asker by training (no slam intended), when the ethos of your school is to reach out to previously marginalized and under-represented groups that had been ignored or castigated by many fundamentalists and evangelicals, when your professors pay unusual attention to bending over backwards being "fair" to all sides and all views (e.g., Mormons, Muslims, atheists, and secularists generally), it is not surprising that a bright young entrepreneur would "emerge" who markets that ethos as his stock in trade.


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## Notthemama1984

Just read this. I sure do hope he is right.

http://michaelkrahn.com/writing/201...hat-john-piper-meant-by-“farewell-rob-bell-”/


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## Theoretical

SolaSaint said:


> I don't know Bell and McLaren's hearts, but I must wonder of their sencerity. Do men like these truly believe in the drivel they produce that diminishes the attributes of God and twists scripture to fit their theology? Or are they aware of the many weak minded professing christians today, and thus come up with this heresy to make lots of money. I guess we'll never know this side of eternity.


 
I think most who fall into liberal errors are sincere. Obviously some are more predatory, but quite a few others are sincere in their motives for teaching these doctrines. The problem is that they believe they have to save Christianity from itself. As they see it, Christianity is being discredited and unbelief and global suffering are going uncountered, so Christianity "must change or die" (title of a Spong book).


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