# Bob Vigneault's a ?



## BJClark (Nov 5, 2009)

I have a question about something you mentioned in this thread..

http://www.puritanboard.com/f64/arguments-against-modern-day-demonic-possession-51881/



> The biggest differences would be that possession implies ownership and in a universe where Jesus Christ is Lord, the Creator and all things are his I don't like the idea that satan owns anything.
> 
> Secondly, possession really isn't a biblical word. Daimonizomai, on the other hand, appears 13 times in the New Testament.



In the reformed faith we believe that some are elect and some are not..so if they are not elect, then wouldn't they belong to or be owned by Satan?? We may not like the thought of that, but how can we deny that if scripture tells us they are children of the devil? 

Jhn 8:44 "You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of his own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 

1Jo 3:10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.


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## Skyler (Nov 5, 2009)

It depends upon the sense in which you're talking. In one sense, God owns everything; in another sense, Satan "owns" the unregenerate. I think.


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## BJClark (Nov 6, 2009)

Skyler;



> It depends upon the sense in which you're talking. In one sense, God owns everything; in another sense, Satan "owns" the unregenerate. I think.



While I understand God owns everything..Scripture teaches Christ bought us, so in that line of thought, it would mean "Satan owned us before" as slaves in sin..so the lost/ unregenerate would still be owned by Satan...that's the only logical conclusion I can see..

1Cr 6:19 Or do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within you, whom you have from God? You are not your own, 1Cr 6:20* for you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body. *

1Cr 7:21 Were you a slave when called? Do not be concerned about it. But if you can gain your freedom, avail yourself of the opportunity. 1Cr 7:22 For he who was called in the Lord as a slave is a freedman of the Lord. Likewise he who was free when called is a slave of Christ. 1Cr 7:23* You were bought with a price; do not become slaves of men. *

2Pe 2:1 But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 


Which is why I was questioning why he said what he said...



> The biggest differences would be that *possession implies ownership* and in a universe where Jesus Christ is Lord, the Creator and all things are his* I don't like the idea that satan owns anything.*



Just trying to get clarification...

I don't believe any of us like the idea that Satan owns anyone..but the realities are..there are some who were not bought and paid for by the blood of Christ..if we are to believe in some being 'elect' and others not..so by that understanding..possession would fit..


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## Brian Withnell (Nov 6, 2009)

God owns everything, and everyone; even those whom has destined for destruction for the praise of his justice. Vessels prepared for wrath still belong to the owner of those vessels. God will own all those in hell, just as much as he owns everyone in heaven. God owns Satan and all his children.

He owns all, for he created all. They will accomplish what he intended from the beginning for them to accomplish (to his glory).

Every knee shall bow and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of the father.


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## BJClark (Nov 6, 2009)

Thank you Brian,

Like I said, I'm just trying to get clarity here..and that certainly helps..


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## BobVigneault (Nov 6, 2009)

Hi Bobbi, that's a great question and here is my humble conviction. Satan owns nothing, however, the unregenerate and the rebel is ALLIGNED with Satan and his schemes. The Bible doesn't describe ownership, but when Jesus said, 'you are of your father the devil' he's was explaining their allegiance. 

Deliverance ministers will speak of messing with the occult or playing with a Ouija board as 'invitations' for the demonich, as if some kind of spiritual door is opened and a mystical link is formed. All that is happening is that the person is aligning himself with the demonic and showing his willingness to get into the game. Superstition and fear is the foothold that demons look for.


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