# bad missionaries and bad missionary practices



## Pergamum

What are your frustrations with missionaries?

What examples of bad missionaries have you seen? What did they do?

What are some poor missiological practices that you have encountered?

How do you screen your missionaries and make sure that they are fit objects of support?


----------



## Rich Koster

I have seen 2 go off course in the field. One was seduced by the CGM, the other the NAR. In both cases they were influenced by the wrong people in the field who showed them "more effective" ways of doing things. I am guessing their desire to see results was more important than their desire to stay the course, be faithful to the message and leave the results up to God. Paul plants, Apollos waters but only God gives the increase.


----------



## Pergamum

Could you elaborate, I don't even know what a NAR is...


----------



## jambo

1. As a former missionary (well actually I suppose I am still a missionary but not in the way it is generally understood but thats a different story) I do not by and large frustrations with missionaries as I know where they are coming from. Any frustrations a church may feel usually comes from not appreciating, nor understanding the situation the missionary is in through. Some churches expect the missionary to operate in a foreign culture the way he would work in the home culture.

2 & 3. I have seen some missionaries be more a missionary of western culture than kingdom culture. I have known of mission agencies in the US dictate how things are done by a missionary in some foreign field on the other side of the planet without any reference to local believers or the local church. Indeed they have sometimes trampled on local Christians displaying an arrogant attitude that 'we know best' despite being far removed from the situation. (Not all mission agencies are like that but that is just an example of bad, very bad practice.) The agency may have its principles and policies but the missionary on the field should determine how things are done on the field. 

4. The missionaries supported by our church are all missionaries the church has got to know through the years. They are people who have attended the church whilst studying in Belfast prior to going out. Thus the church has got to know them and the situation they are in. There is that regular communication and visits during times of furlough. With bloggs, e-mails etc you have instant access to news prayer requests etc.


----------



## Rich Koster

Pergamum said:


> Could you elaborate, I don't even know what a NAR is...



New Apostolic Reformation
C. Peter Wagner
Chuck Pierce
Dutch Sheets
Cindy Jacobs


----------



## Mark Hettler

At the church we were attending a few years ago (not the one we're in now), a missionary couple we supported came through while on furlough. I was an elder at the time, but not when the decision had been made to support them. He preached on Sunday and it was excellent, and we invited them to a special evening meeting to talk about their work.

The presentation was a slide show, at least two-thirds of which focused on this big fancy house they were building in the town where they ministered, and the need for funds to get it built. Someone asked why they need such a big fancy house, and the answer was it gives them credibility with the people so they'll listen to them; if they were perceived as poor and needy, people wouldn't respect them and wouldn't see them as having something they need.

Now these weren't greedy, materialistic people; they didn't ask for 5-star accommodations while they were in town. During their furlough Hurricane Katrina hit the town in Southern Mississippi where their home church is located, and they were out in the rubble with their neighbors helping them salvage what was left of their possessions. I believe their sincerity when they say that they didn't want anything for themselves, just wanted to reach people for Christ.

But I don't know, something just rubbed me the wrong way. I know Paul was "all things to all men," but are we really supposed to let the world define our criteria for respectability and credibility? Isn't there a point where we have to say we're ambassadors for a kingdom with a totally different value system from the people we're trying to reach, and seek to represent that kingdom even it means we'll be perceived as fools, and trust God to turn hearts so they'll perceive what we have as something they need? Isn't there a danger of trying so hard to reach people that we lose sight of what it is we're trying to reach them with?

I hope I haven't strayed too far afield from the original question, but this experience troubled me and comes to mind whenever the subject of missionary practices is brought up.


----------



## Pergamum

How do you define a "Big fancy house"? Did it look big and fancy in comparison to the houses of the locals? Or was it actually big and fancy?

I am building the biggest house in my whole area..the biggest house within a week's walk. I am in the same boat right now..gathering funds for the last 10% of this house-building project.


----------



## Calvinist Cowboy

In regards to the "big, fancy house" (which I don't think it's necessarily a sin to have), are you having it built to draw attention to yourself? If not, if it is being built to glorify God and bless your family, then I don't think there is anything wrong with it.


----------



## Wannabee

We witnessed a missionary work up tears one time. It was a bit disgusting.
Another missionary a church of our supported finished building his house and equipping it, then quit responding. We have no idea what happened, other than he no longer returned contact. But their checks were being cashed.
We have a list of questions for potential missionaries. And we will sit down and interview them. One of the main questions is what their overwhelming (main) goal is. If it's winning souls then they'll burn out unless God provides souls. This is a humanistic mindset. If it's faithfulness in Christ and striving on for the glory of God come what may, then they are resting in Christ as their strength and may endure anything that besets them. If they don't have a vision to see themselves as stepping stones then we would be very reserved in supporting them.


----------



## Mark Hettler

Pergamum said:


> How do you define a "Big fancy house"? Did it look big and fancy in comparison to the houses of the locals? Or was it actually big and fancy?
> 
> I am building the biggest house in my whole area..the biggest house within a week's walk. I am in the same boat right now..gathering funds for the last 10% of this house-building project.



Big and fancy by American standards; might be called a "McMansion" if it were built in my area. Certainly there are godly people who live in comparable houses. But my problem wasn't with the house itself; there could be good reasons why the spaces is needed or at least worthwhile. My problem was with the rationale, and the idea of letting the world define our standards for credibility and respectability.


----------



## Ivan

Rich Koster said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you elaborate, I don't even know what a NAR is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Apostolic Reformation
> C. Peter Wagner
> Chuck Pierce
> Dutch Sheets
> Cindy Jacobs
Click to expand...


Oh yeah, those guys...yikes! And what is CGM?


----------



## Mark Hettler

Ivan said:


> Oh yeah, those guys...yikes! And what is CGM?



CGM = Christian Growth Ministries. Don't think they're around anymore, big in the 70's and 80's. Charismatic ministry headquartered in Fort Lauderdale, FL, emphasizing "authority and submission." Also known as the shepherding movement or the discipleship movement, within the charismatic movement. Big names included Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Ern Baxter, Don Basham. Eventually all of these either left or died except for Simpson, who carried on for a while in Mobile AL under the name of Integrity Ministries.


----------



## Ivan

Mark Hettler said:


> Ivan said:
> 
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, those guys...yikes! And what is CGM?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> CGM = Christian Growth Ministries. Don't think they're around anymore, big in the 70's and 80's. Charismatic ministry headquartered in Fort Lauderdale, FL, emphasizing "authority and submission." Also known as the shepherding movement or the discipleship movement, within the charismatic movement. Big names included Bob Mumford, Derek Prince, Charles Simpson, Ern Baxter, Don Basham.
Click to expand...


Ah, yes. I'm aware of most of the names. 

Thanks.


----------



## Pergamum

Wannabee said:


> We witnessed a missionary work up tears one time. It was a bit disgusting.
> Another missionary a church of our supported finished building his house and equipping it, then quit responding. We have no idea what happened, other than he no longer returned contact. But their checks were being cashed.
> We have a list of questions for potential missionaries. And we will sit down and interview them. One of the main questions is what their overwhelming (main) goal is. If it's winning souls then they'll burn out unless God provides souls. This is a humanistic mindset. If it's faithfulness in Christ and striving on for the glory of God come what may, then they are resting in Christ as their strength and may endure anything that besets them. If they don't have a vision to see themselves as stepping stones then we would be very reserved in supporting them.



Cool. 
_*
I would like to see that list of questions. *_

I think it might bless other churches to do something like this too. 


I have noticed that a few of my churches question me to death and some of these churches are doing it for God's glory and for good stewardship (and about 2 are doing it because they are hyper-critical churches and want me to toe some pretty strict lines), but even more troubling than the questions is the LACK of questions and some churches are eager to support missionaries without checking them out thoroughly.... I could SO scam some of these churches if I could figure out how to lie smoothly. I am thankful for those churches that actually get involved, because so many do not.

-----Added 1/11/2009 at 12:30:23 EST-----



Mark Hettler said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you define a "Big fancy house"? Did it look big and fancy in comparison to the houses of the locals? Or was it actually big and fancy?
> 
> I am building the biggest house in my whole area..the biggest house within a week's walk. I am in the same boat right now..gathering funds for the last 10% of this house-building project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big and fancy by American standards; might be called a "McMansion" if it were built in my area. Certainly there are godly people who live in comparable houses. But my problem wasn't with the house itself; there could be good reasons why the spaces is needed or at least worthwhile. My problem was with the rationale, and the idea of letting the world define our standards for credibility and respectability.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I didn't mean to question your interpretation. I cannot imagine having a McMansion by American standards here. My simple rustic but large house makes me feel guilty.

-----Added 1/11/2009 at 12:40:14 EST-----



Mark Hettler said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> How do you define a "Big fancy house"? Did it look big and fancy in comparison to the houses of the locals? Or was it actually big and fancy?
> 
> I am building the biggest house in my whole area..the biggest house within a week's walk. I am in the same boat right now..gathering funds for the last 10% of this house-building project.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Big and fancy by American standards; might be called a "McMansion" if it were built in my area. Certainly there are godly people who live in comparable houses. But my problem wasn't with the house itself; there could be good reasons why the spaces is needed or at least worthwhile. My problem was with the rationale, and the idea of letting the world define our standards for credibility and respectability.
Click to expand...


Thanks, I didn't mean to question your interpretation. I cannot imagine having a McMansion by American standards here. My simple rustic but large house makes me feel guilty.


----------



## Rich Koster

Ivan said:


> Rich Koster said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> 
> Could you elaborate, I don't even know what a NAR is...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> New Apostolic Reformation
> C. Peter Wagner
> Chuck Pierce
> Dutch Sheets
> Cindy Jacobs
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Oh yeah, those guys...yikes! And what is CGM?
Click to expand...



CGM Church Growth Movement 

Rick Warren
Bill Hybels

Mark, the guys you mention are the "Heavy Shepherding" to me. I guess I have to put more effort into clearly expressing myself. My typing is about 10-15 WPM and I tend to cut corners.


----------



## GTMOPC

Forgive my ignorance Perg but where are you located? I'm assuming you are in the mission field.


----------



## Pergamum

I am in SE Asia. Email me at oct31st1517 at hotmail dot com and I can tell you more.


----------

