# About the Trinity



## Minh (Nov 30, 2019)

Greeting!

I would like to share my doubt about this matter. Of course, it’s not that I’m becoming anti-Trinitarian. I affirm both Nicene and Chalcedon creeds. What I’m anxious about is that often is that Christ is more mentioned in the pulpit and in worship than God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. I often wondered that if we are consistent in being Trinitarians, should we spend equal times in discussing both Christ, the Father and Spirit, without overlooking the great redemptive work of our Savior? Yet on the contrary, we refer to our members as “in Christ” or our churches is “of Christ”. Please help me resolving my trouble that I may peacefully worship God!

(This post should belong to “Theology” instead of “Theonomy” due to my mistake. My appreciation to moderator who switch the topic!)


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## Reformed Covenanter (Nov 30, 2019)

Minh said:


> (This post should belong to “Theology” instead of “Theonomy” due to my mistake. My appreciation to moderator who switch the topic!)



I was just about to come on and start bashing you for posting such a topic in the theonomy forum, but you beat me to it. But maybe there has been enough verbal violence associated with theonomy to do us all a lifetime.  

In relation to the OP, I honestly think that you are probably worrying about nothing. Perhaps the reason why Christ seems to get more prominence is simply that it is the natural outworking of him being the mediator between God and man.

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## Scott Bushey (Nov 30, 2019)

I have made mention of this, recently, as well. It seems typical for men to delegate an unbiblical hierarchy to the persons of the Trinity, non-intentionally. As well, we have the passages such as: God the head of Christ, Christ the head of man and man the head of woman, which bends our thoughts toward this reality. In the compound sense, God and Christ are equal, yet in the divided sense, God IS the head of Christ. 1 Cor 11.

I digress; So, the HS seems to take this muted or tertiary spot, when in essence, he is equal to the Father and Son. The human brain seems, even as believers, compelled to sin; our thoughts are fractured even still; For example, in not breaking the second commandment, it took years, during the Lord's Supper, to empty my mind of thoughts of the crucifixion. Now, I am almost empty headed when we partake, only focusing on confession, repentance and thanksgiving for the work of Christ.

I say the above just to contrast how the word defines and in that sanctification, we need to reprogram our minds....conforming to the Word of God. I hate to use this term, but for lack of a better term, it is quite mathematical.

Finally, I believe that it is important to make mention of all 3 persons of the trinity; giving ample time to all. Yet, part of me, as I write this, given that the 3 are one, could it not be said that when one preaches Christ, one is preaching of the Father and the Hs equally as each represents the other? I guess it all boils down to the way the ball is caught on my end and what I mention above.

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## Ed Walsh (Dec 1, 2019)

Scott Bushey said:


> I digress; So, the HS seems to take this muted or tertiary spot, when in essence, he is equal to the Father and Son. The human brain seems, even as believers, compelled to sin; our thoughts are fractured even still; For example, in not breaking the second commandment, it took years, during the Lord's Supper, to empty my mind of thoughts of the crucifixion. Now, I am almost empty headed when we partake, only focusing on confession, repentance and thanksgiving for the work of Christ



Hi Scott,

I thought you had a really down-to-earth human post about the inner workings of your mind. My mind has similar functionality I believe.

While we talk about our own thoughts on the Trinity rather than discuss the Godhead withthe usual scientific precision, I could add that the bulk of my mind's thinking and relationship with God is with God as Father. I've heard it said that you're human father impacts a lot on one's view of God as father. But in my case, I think nothing could be farther from the truth. Early on in my Christianity the words of Christ, "after this manner, therefore, pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, etc." (Matthew 6:9) coupled with the Westminster Shorter Catechism, shaped my prayer life in a way that is stuck with me for 45 years. I do meditate on and pray to all three persons, but my most personal relationship with the Trinity is with the Father. For he is good and his mercy endureth forever. When you have seen Jesus you have seen the father. The two are one. Jesus prays for me, the Holy Spirit helps me pray to the Father. Knowing that the two are one I know that the emotional life of Jesus is completely comprehended equally by the Father. The three are one. Praise His holy name.

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## PuritanCovenanter (Dec 1, 2019)

Minh said:


> (This post should belong to “Theology” instead of “Theonomy” due to my mistake. My appreciation to moderator who switch the topic!)


I put it in Worship.

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## RamistThomist (Dec 1, 2019)

There is a Trinitarian grammar: worship to the Father through Christ in the Spirit.

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## Ed Walsh (Dec 1, 2019)

BayouHuguenot said:


> There is a Trinitarian grammar: worship to the Father through Christ in the Spirit.


 
I guess that's what I was trying to say.
Thanks.

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## Dachaser (Dec 1, 2019)

Minh said:


> Greeting!
> 
> I would like to share my doubt about this matter. Of course, it’s not that I’m becoming anti-Trinitarian. I affirm both Nicene and Chalcedon creeds. What I’m anxious about is that often is that Christ is more mentioned in the pulpit and in worship than God the Father or God the Holy Spirit. I often wondered that if we are consistent in being Trinitarians, should we spend equal times in discussing both Christ, the Father and Spirit, without overlooking the great redemptive work of our Savior? Yet on the contrary, we refer to our members as “in Christ” or our churches is “of Christ”. Please help me resolving my trouble that I may peacefully worship God!
> 
> ...


I really understood your concern, as when in AOG, we tended to overlook the Father and Jesus and focus on Holy Spirit. Jesus gave to us the pattern of placing the Father first and foremost, and think main reason we tend to be all Christ centered is that much easier to focus on Him being God and human then the Father, who is God over all, but is Spirit only.


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## lynnie (Dec 1, 2019)

I got saved in the charismatic movement in the 70s. As with Dachaser, all people talked about was the Holy Spirit. I still remember some old guy who was considered a prophet saying that God was going to restore attention to the Father. 

I do find that with cessationists there can be much less focus on the Holy Spirit. I think part of that is the effort to resist so much bad doctrine in evangelical charismatic churches.

During the worst summer of my life, when our adopted daughter was in an identity crisis and rebellion and cutting herself with two inch gashes and trying to get back to her birth family, with bloody towels on the floor and the counselor looking into facilities as she threatened suicide, all I did all summer was read Christology. Chapter after chapter in Robert Culver's ST, and other STs. Only Christology helped me as I was pretty much falling apart watching what seemed like a disaster.

A lot of people have great problems. Maybe the Christ focus helps the most?


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## Dachaser (Dec 1, 2019)

lynnie said:


> I got saved in the charismatic movement in the 70s. As with Dachaser, all people talked about was the Holy Spirit. I still remember some old guy who was considered a prophet saying that God was going to restore attention to the Father.
> 
> I do find that with cessationists there can be much less focus on the Holy Spirit. I think part of that is the effort to resist so much bad doctrine in evangelical charismatic churches.
> 
> ...


Jesus is the One in the Trinity easiest to understand, in the sense He was one of us so to speak.


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## Minh (Dec 1, 2019)

Thanks for all your helps! After all, it is my desire to understand more about the nature of God to worship Him properly. I realize that all things in the Scripture point us to Jesus Christ as the Mediator and the Redeemer. The Devil has so many schemes to lead me away from Him, even using orthodoxy to corrupt my thinking. Christ will perfectly love and save me no matter how doubtful I am. To Him alone be the Glory!


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## De Jager (Dec 1, 2019)

It is important to remember that God has always been and always will be, triune. Whenever we read a Psalm that extols the LORD (YHWH), we should think to ourselves, bless the triune God - Father, Son and Holy Spirit. I find the baptism of Jesus a very beautiful trinitarian passage.

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## deleteduser99 (Dec 1, 2019)

Minh said:


> Thanks for all your helps! After all, it is my desire to understand more about the nature of God to worship Him properly. I realize that all things in the Scripture point us to Jesus Christ as the Mediator and the Redeemer. The Devil has so many schemes to lead me away from Him, even using orthodoxy to corrupt my thinking. Christ will perfectly love and save me no matter how doubtful I am. To Him alone be the Glory!



Over the past months I've had a special focus on the attributes of God and the persons of the godhead, and trying to wade into deeper and deeper theological truths on God. What a rewarding study that has been! I say spare nothing in learning about God. All doctrines and truths come from the minds of the one Triune God. I don't think the rest of doctrine and practice will make full sense until there is some competent understanding of who God is. After all, aren't all things meant to glorify Him?

Reactions: Amen 1


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## Minh (Dec 1, 2019)

De Jager said:


> I find the baptism of Jesus a very beautiful trinitarian passage.



I wholeheartedly agree that. I wish to point to the movie scene relating to that passage in the "Jesus Movie" for better illustration. Now my conviction would prevent me from entertaining myself with anything that visually depicts our Lord, but I have to admit that that part in the movie did very well in illustrating the baptism of Jesus. 

Every blessings


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## timfost (Dec 1, 2019)

Minh said:


> I affirm both *Nicene* and Chalcedon creeds... should we spend *equal* times in discussing both Christ, the Father and Spirit...



"I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible." (*20 words*)

"And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God *...* and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end." (*130 words*)

"And I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord and Giver of life; who proceeds from the Father and the Son; who with the Father and the Son together is worshiped and glorified; who spoke by the prophets." (*38 words*)

Time spent considering each Person of the Trinity does not necessarily equal hierarchy or an imbalance. However, scriptures themselves put each Person in _proper_ balance. A passage being taught that focuses specifically on the Father does not necessarily need to be brought around to Christ or the Spirit by the speaker. Our faith is in the Triune God, each Person being a proper object of our faith. Because the three are one, proper trinitarian teaching should drive us to that one God, regardless of which Person is the primary focus of a passage.

Yes, certain denominations do focus on one Person to a fault at times. Often this comes about by topical preaching that focuses on the favorite doctrine of the group rather than the whole counsel of God (Acts 20:27). 

My primary concern is not that a church spends equal time on each Person of the Godhead, but rather its teaching presents scripture with the balance of scripture, not inordinate time on the group's pet doctrine.

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## Minh (Dec 1, 2019)

timfost said:


> "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible." (*20 words*)
> 
> "And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God *...* and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end." (*130 words*)
> 
> ...



You explain this well, I admit. Sometimes, I am inclined to doubt due to my excessive curiosity. Much appreciation for your explanation brother!

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## deleteduser99 (Dec 1, 2019)

timfost said:


> "I believe in one God, the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth, and of all things visible and invisible." (*20 words*)
> 
> "And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the only-begotten Son of God *...* and He shall come again, with glory, to judge the living and the dead; whose kingdom shall have no end." (*130 words*)
> 
> ...



Your analysis of the creeds remind me, I've noticed in Owen's Communion with God, that far greater time is spent on Christ than the Father or Spirit.


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