# 2 Samuel 23:5 KJV vs. All Modern Translations



## Ed Walsh (Jan 1, 2022)

Greetings beloved of the Lord, and @iainduguid (for obvious reasons)

This beautiful chapter, known as, David's Last Words, begins thusly.

2 Samuel 23:1‭-‬3 KJV​Now these be the last words of David. David the son of Jesse said, And the man who was raised up on high, The anointed of the God of Jacob, And the sweet psalmist of Israel, said, The Spirit of the LORD spake by me, And his word was in my tongue. The God of Israel said, The Rock of Israel spake to me, He that ruleth over men must be just, Ruling in the fear of God.​
My question has to do with the translation of verse 5.

2 Samuel 23:5 KJV​Although my house be not so with God; Yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, Ordered in all things, and sure: For this is all my salvation, and all my desire, Although he make it not to grow.​
In 2 Samuel 23:5, the King James version has a meaning that relates quite accurately to David's real life experiences with sin and wayward children. But nevertheless, he remains steadfast in his faith in God's Covenant with him that his seed will last forever.
But the modern translations have this turned around so it sounds like David earned the right to have his posterity blessed forever. No, I don't know which translation is more accurate, but it is undoubtedly true that the King James version is more characteristic of David's real-life experience. Grace Grace, God's Grace, Grace that is greater than all my sin. That has been my life's experience as well. But I will yield to the wise among us who know the original language to see which translation is more accurate.

Here are a few translations of 2 Samuel 23:5

KJV​Although my house be not so with God; Yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, Ordered in all things, and sure: For this is all my salvation, and all my desire, Although he make it not to grow.​​NIV (which is the worst of all)​If my house were not right with God, surely he would not have made with me an everlasting covenant, arranged and secured in every part; surely he would not bring to fruition my salvation and grant me my every desire.​​ESV​For does not my house stand so with God? For he has made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things and secure. For will he not cause to prosper all my help and my desire?​​CSB​Is it not true my house is with God? For he has established a permanent covenant with me, ordered and secured in every detail. Will he not bring about my whole salvation and my every desire?​​RSV​Yea, does not my house stand so with God? For he has made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things and secure. For will he not cause to prosper all my help and my desire?​
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Below is Matthew Poole's commentary on this verse.

2 Samuel 23:5 Although my house be not so with God; yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant, ordered in all things, and sure: for this is all my salvation, and all my desire, although he make it not to grow.

Although my house be not so with God; although God knows that neither I nor my children have lived and ruled as we should have done, so justly, and in the fear of the Lord; and therefore have not enjoyed that uninterrupted prosperity which we might have enjoyed; but our morning light, or the beginning of that kingdom promised to me and mine for ever, hath been overcast with many black and dismal clouds, and my children have not hitherto been like the tender grass springing out of the earth, and thriving by the influences of the sun and rain; but rather like the grass that withereth away, or is cut off before its due time. Yet he hath made with me an everlasting covenant: notwithstanding all our transgressions whereby we have broken covenant with God, and the confusions and civil wars which have threatened our dissipation and utter destruction; yet I comfort myself with this, that God, to whom all my sins were foreknown before I committed them, was graciously pleased to make a sure covenant, to give and continue the kingdom to me and to my seed for ever, chap. 7:16, until the coming of the Messias, who is to be my Son and successor, and whose kingdom shall have no end. Ordered in all things; ordained in all points by 2 Samuel 23:5 (MPCHBV13): God’s eternal and unchangeable counsel; and disposed by his wise and powerful providence, which doth and will overrule all things, even the sins and sufferings of my house, so far, that although he would punish them for their sins, yet he will not utterly root them out, nor break his covenant made with me and mine; as is said, Psal. 89:31–34. Sure, or preserved, or observed, or kept, to wit, on God’s part, or by God’s power and faithfulness, in the midst of all the oppositions and uncertainties to which it seems to be exposed on our part. Compare Rom. 3:3; 2 Tim. 2:13. For, or therefore, as the Hebrew particle chi oft signifies; therefore, i.e. because God hath made such a covenant. This is, or, he is, he who hath made this covenant; or, in this is, i.e. it consists in and depends upon this covenant. All my salvation; both my own eternal salvation, and the temporal salvation, or the preservation of the kingdom to me and mine. All my desire, or, every desirable thing; the word desire being oft put for desired, or a desirable thing; as Psal. 21:2; 78:29, 30; Ezek. 24:16. David being deeply sensible, and having had large experience, of the vanity and uncertainty of all earthly things, here declares that the covenant made by God with him and his in the Messias, is the only happiness which he prizeth and desireth, in which he doth fully acquiesce. Although he make it not to grow, i.e. my house, mentioned before. So the sense is, Although God as yet hath not made my house or family to grow, i.e. to increase, or to flourish with worldly glory and prosperity, as I expected; but hath for my sins cut off divers of my most eminent branches, and sorely afflicted my person and family; and although he may for the future deal in like manner with my sons and successors for the like miscarriages, which it is probable they may commit: yet this is my great support and comfort, that God will constantly and inviolably keep this covenant; and therefore, in the midst of all the shakings, and confusions, and interruptions which may happen in my house and kingdom, will preserve my line and family until the coming of the Messiah out of my loins, whose kingdom is an everlasting kingdom; who, as he is the desire of all nations, Hag. 2:7, so in a special manner is my desire, and the author of all my salvation.

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## iainduguid (Jan 1, 2022)

2 Sam 23 5 is certainly a tricky verse, with repeated use of _kiy_ which can mean Indeed, Although, Since, For, or introduce a question (among other alternatives). I think both translations are grammatically defensible. The question is which is most likely in the larger context. 

The immediate context is verses 3-4, which both views take as a general statement: when a king rules wisely and well, he is a great blessing to his people, like the sunshine that makes the grass grow after a rain shower. 

Here is where the views differ: KJV, operating on the consideration that the latter years of David's reign (and especially his house) do not fit the category of ruling wisely and well, takes the first _kiy _ in v. 4 as concessive: "Although my house is not thus - and therefore the people will not experience the blessing that they could otherwise expect - I take comfort and joy in the promised salvation of the unconditional covenant in 2 Sam 7." That's certainly a Biblical and comforting thought, especially for anyone who is very aware of dysfunction in their own household and needs to be reminded of Christ's righteousness and not their own, which is where Poole goes.

The alternative translation, followed by most modern translations, sees the _kiy _as introducing a rhetorical question: "Is it not the case (overall) that I have governed wisely? According to God's gracious covenant that means he will certainly cause my people to thrive (including sending the promised Son of 2 Sam 7 to reign forever)? I delight and find my salvation in that promise" This too is a true and Biblical thought. In 22:33, David says to God "You made my way blameless", and subsequently people look back on David as "the king after God's own heart," so he could certainly assert in his last words that overall he was a good ruler. 

So both translations are grammatically and Biblically defensible. Did I ever remind people that translation is not easy? Which should we choose? I lean toward the modern rendition, primarily in light of the following verses (23:6-7), which talk about the certain judgment of God that will come upon the wicked. To me, they make more sense if David is contrasting himself as a covenant keeper (by God's enabling grace - see 22:33), than if he is lamenting his own sin and failure. But I'm sure it's possible to make sense of them also on the KJV rendition, and the profitable thoughts that you derived from the KJV translation of v.5 are certainly Biblical even if not necessarily what this verse has in mind.

I hope that helps

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