# When should we pray for God's justice?



## ReformedWretch

Someone said something like this to me.

Reformed believers can get offended by grumblings in regard to circumstances, because we see God as the Creator of our Circumstances. 

While I generally understand this, it makes me wonder, is it ever appropriate to ask for God's justice in a situation? Do we pray against evil, manipulative people in our lives, or do we look for some way we need to change because of the evil God has allowed into our lives?

It's very hard for me to understand this where I work. If I see people who treat children poorly, who do not practice the methods we are taught to practice, and lie and or gossip about others in front of children what am I to pray?

I do pray for them to find Christ. If they have confessed Christ to me I may even talk to them directly about their situationa nd why it bothers me. But, is it ever appropriate to pray for God's justice or even judgment upon His enemies who seek to harm you unfairly? Or accuse you unjustly?

I posted a while back about Romans 109. Can we today pray a prayer like that against the enemies of God? Can we pray it against those who willfully and cheerfully revel in their sin and attack God's people simply because of who they are in Christ?

Thoughts?


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## ReformedWretch

Just thought of an example.

If one of the administrators here on the PB got angry and messed up the board badly, and continued to hack it after some measures against his actions were taken, should we only pray for him and examine why God is allowing this to happen? Or would it be appropriate to pray for him to be punished in some way for his actions? Not because you're angry, but because you want it to stop and his actions are hindering our fellowship.


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## ReformedWretch

Another thought...

1 Cor 16:22 If anyone has no love for the Lord, let him be accursed.


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## ReformedWretch

So we may never pray the Psalms today?


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## Scott Bushey

Adam,
The first thing you would need to do in this situation is check your heart. Is this an attack against you personally? If it is, have you forgiven your enemy. Have you bent the knee for your enemy? Have you turned the other cheek? 

Gods justice WILL prevail. The guilty will not go unpunished. 

Deu 32:35 Vengeance is mine, and recompense, for the time when their foot shall slip; for the day of their calamity is at hand, and their doom comes swiftly.'


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## Scott Bushey

Josh, you beat me by 3 min's.........


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## Scott Bushey

Josh writes:


> it would be perfectly appropriate to use the tools we have to keep them from doing such,



Fred, Hand me that ball peen hammer will ya...............


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## ReformedWretch

I don't see it as an attack on me personally. I see it as treating poor children unfairly. I have been ripped into for 12 years now and have constantly turned the other cheek. Now the behavior of those who have treated me poorly is spilling over onto the kids!

This is why I ask what I do.

[Edited on 3-9-2005 by houseparent]


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## Scott Bushey

7 x 70


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## ReformedWretch

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> 7 x 70



Again, so praying the Psalms is not appropriate at any time? If so, when and when not?


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## RamistThomist

I made this distinction a while back on another thread:

If they are God's enemies and are attacking the honor of God, then we may fervently pray imprecatory Psalms. David in 1 Samuel 17 is a prime example.


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## RamistThomist

I do realize the second premise is wide open


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## Scott Bushey

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> I made this distinction a while back on another thread:
> 
> If they are God's enemies and are attacking the honor of God, then we may fervently pray imprecatory Psalms. David in 1 Samuel 17 is a prime example.



Jacob, I agree. However, this must be balanced with the right heart. Forgiveness must be part and parcel of the prayer-no?


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## ReformedWretch

If the prayer is an honest one, that calls for God's action against His enemies in order that they might repent, then this is the right attitude, correct?

So long as we are seeking that God be honored?


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## Scott Bushey

> _Originally posted by joshua_
> God's love and hate aren't mutually exclusive of one another. David could sincerely pray, "Do I not hate those who hate you, oh Lord?" while also loving his enemies.



Matt's new book clearly explains this principle. In the divided sense God loves everyone, in the compound He does not.


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## ReformedWretch

> In the divided sense God loves everyone, in the compound He does not.



Well I definately need a book to explain that!:bigsmile:


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## Scott Bushey

Get the book!


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## ReformedWretch

Preparing for a big move, no money for a little while.


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## VirginiaHuguenot

Pray for justice with mercy. Both are met together in Christ Jesus our Lord. 

Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. Ps. 85.10


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## VanVos

I also recommend Matt's book. I received a copy today through the post...been reading it all night. 

Concerning imprecatory prayers in the bible, I would say they are ethical intrusions. Here a quote from Lee irons on kline : 



> Intrusion: into the midst of the common grace field, God sometimes intrudes the principle of final judgment ahead of time (e.g., the flood; the conquest of Canaan). Normally, intrusions are associated with the setting up of a theocracy (e.g., Noah's ark; the Israelite theocracy). When heaven comes to earth, judgment ensues! The cross and resurrection of Christ was also an intrusion, and it was the prelude to the setting up of the spiritual, heavenly theocracy of the reign of Christ in the church. Intrusions are not normative and can only be instituted by divine special command (i.e., the Lord's commanding Joshua, Saul, David to exterminate the Canaanites). Under normal, common grace conditions, we must love our enemies just like God does (Mat 5:44-45). Only at the final day, when heaven comes to earth permanently, will we be asked to hate our enemies.



(btw I do not agree with his view of common grace)

VanVos


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## The Lamb

I have struggled with this same issue Adam. I see no problem praying those psalms. David was human and so are we. They are honest reflections of our spirit vs sin nature. 

We must trust in Gods providential dealings with all of His creation, but that does not negate our responsibility to adress evil and confront it. 


This Love /Hate of God concerns me and I have struggled with this "opinion" because it appears to question His immutability. 

David by no means Loved the enemies of God. He did not love goliath and the phils. 

Adam, just pray exactly what is on youyr heart and God will lead you to the correct prayers. 

If you feel at the moment to pray for their destruction, then do it. If God is angry with that prayer He will lead you to repentance and change your focus.


In His Grace


Joseph


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## Texas Aggie

No need to pray for justice. God is absolutely just and will take care of the matter. All you can do is feel sorry for the rest of the world. No need to get angry or upset eiter, we are all going in one direction. Your prayers may be the method that God has decreed from the foundation of the world to bring his elect into the revelation of Jesus Christ. The world around you is sick and depraved while you are the light and glory of God. Your obedience to His law written in your heart and in your mind speaks endlessly to those around you. There is no need to pray for justice, believe me.... those around you will all come to know God. All you can really do is feel sorry for them, for they will know God much differently than you do.


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