# Top 3 Arguments Against Islam



## C. Matthew McMahon

All - 

Just curious to your thoughts on what are the top 3 Apologetical arguments against Muslims and Islam?

Thanks in advance.


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## Devin

I started to compile a list, but they all came back to the same problem:

Islam claims to be in-line with previous revelations (the Law, the Psalms, the Gospels), and it simply is not.


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## RamistThomist

Further revelations cannot contradict previous revelations.

Reactions: Like 1


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## Anton Bruckner

equality of men and women.

In Islam when a man dies he gets a plethora of virgins. 

In Christianity, they are not given in marriage but are like the angels.

Reactions: Like 1


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## reformedcop

Q: Is your god holy and just? 
A: Yes.

Q: Have you ever lied, stolen, dishonored your parents ... etc.
A: Yes.

Q: Are you going to paradise/heaven when you die?
A: Yes/Maybe ... Its up to allah.

Q: How can a god that is holy and just allow _you_ heaven without a payment? If he is truly just, he can't wink at your sins against him. If your god can just wink at your sin and put it aside ... he is not holy and he is not just.


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## Raj

My opinion:

1. All the prophets including Mohammad asked Allah (God) to forgive their sins but Jesus did not.

2. Mohammad himself says in one place, O my people, the people of Kuresh clan, I can not save you from the wrath of God. You need to save yourself.

3. The Koran itself declares us, the people of Book.


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## beej6

I object to the original post. We should not be against Muslims, yea, we should be praying for them. 

Against Islam, yea, have at it!

Somewhere in my top 3 would be "we do not worship the same God."


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## Iconoclast

C. Matthew McMahon said:


> All -
> 
> Just curious to your thoughts on what are the top 3 Apologetical arguments against Muslims and Islam?
> 
> Thanks in advance.



1]They deny the sufficiency of scripture ,by adding to it.

2] They deny the Divinity of Christ, and His Priestly work .:

3] They deny the cross of Christ,therefore have no hope of atonement outside of their unclean works. Therefore they remain dead in Adam,and condemned


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## jawyman

1. Mohammad was a mortal man, Jesus is God incarnate.

2. Mohammad was a sinner, because he was a mortal man and he needed Christ to mediate for him to God.

3. Mohammad died and was buried. Jesus died, was buried and rose again from the dead.


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## biblicalthought

Islam can be proven to be a false religious system when its truth claims are tested to see if they correspond to reality. Furthermore, Islam's Quran is full of innacurate statements concerning the Bible. Here is my top three, for now...

1. The Quran's claim that Noah's flood took place in Moses' day is completely false (Sura 7:136, compare 7:59ff).

2. Muhammad's serious error in confusing Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Mary, the sister of Moses and Aaron, reveals that he had great confusion as to biblical time periods and biblical figures. (see Sura 19:28)

3. The Quran's misrepresentation of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity proves that Muhammad never understood the doctrine of the Trinity. In Sura 5:73-75, and 5:116, Muhammad mistakenly thought that Christians worshipped three gods: the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Jesus).

These top three are sufficent to prove that the Quran cannot be "inspired" and "perfect - without error" and contain these irreconcilable errors. However, my preference is to provide responses to specific attacks on Christianity. Is there a context to your question, or just askin' for a top three?


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## Contra_Mundum

I do believe in apologetics, and in learning what other people believe, and what their culture prejudices are. There are limits to what these can do for a witnesser, factually. You need to understand a Muslim, not merely his profession.

Unfortunately, what the average Muslim in the world sees is a world which is utterly at war, and especially against Islam. Their world-view is confirmed practically on a daily basis. It is in moments of relative tranquility that the Muslim is confronted with the internal strife that abounds in his own faith, country and household. Satan loves the greater conflicts, not only for the mayhem and destruction they bring, but because they help make common cause that works to smooth over the deep divisions within Islam.

What a Muslim needs is conviction of his own sin, to know the hopelessness of his current efforts and means, and to know the gospel of the Savior.

He needs the law and the gospel.


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## jawyman

Contra_Mundum said:


> I do believe in apologetics, and in learning what other people believe, and what their culture prejudices are. There are limits to what these can do for a witnesser, factually. You need to understand a Muslim, not merely his profession.
> 
> Unfortunately, what the average Muslim in the world sees is a world which is utterly at war, and especially against Islam. Their world-view is confirmed practically on a daily basis. It is in moments of relative tranquility that the Muslim is confronted with the internal strife that abounds in his own faith, country and household. Satan loves the greater conflicts, not only for the mayhem and destruction it brings, but because it makes a common cause that works to smooth over the deep divisions within Islam.
> 
> What Muslims need is conviction of his own sin, to know the hopelessness of their current efforts and means, and to know the gospel of the Savior.
> 
> They need the law and the gospel.


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## larryjf

Top 3 arguments....each person of the Trinity.

Ask...
Is God a relational God? That is, does His nature provide for Him to have relationships?
answer: yes

Is God sufficient in Himself or does He need something outside of Himself?
answer: He is sufficient

Is there 1 God?
answer: yes

Does He exist in 3 persons?
answer:no

Then before creation God would have been eternally lonely and would have needed creation to have a relationship with anything.


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## MW

Iconoclast said:


> 1]They deny the sufficiency of scripture ,by adding to it.
> 
> 2] They deny the Divinity of Christ, and His Priestly work .:
> 
> 3] They deny the cross of Christ,therefore have no hope of atonement outside of their unclean works. Therefore they remain dead in Adam,and condemned



Very good! I would fine tune this just a little:

(1.) They deny the sufficiency of Scripture by adding to it and contradicting its exclusive truth claims.

(2.) They deny the claims of Jesus Christ concerning His divine person and saving work.

(3.) They deny the spirituality of the kingdom of God, turning its advancement into an earthly war zone, and its blessings into a carnal orgy.


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## Jim Johnston

Here's a sustained argument I gave:

Triablogue: Islam: The Muslim Message, Menace, and Meltdown

There's some debate in the comments section.

I then engage one of the Muslim's comments with this post:

Triablogue: To Our Anonymous Muslim Apologist

He responded to the above and so I engaged him in this post:

Triablogue: To Our Anonymous Muslim Apologist II


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## Iconoclast

*nice fine tuning*

Matthew,
I think you are right on the money. A failed view of the person and work of Christ, leads to a completely failed and destructive view of the world.
It is not possible for them to know true joy in life,so they become unwittingly the tools of satan to destroy life. Their devotion to the demonic leads them to destroy anyone who would portray a view of godliness that comes from a heart set free to worship God in response to His Great Love for us.
Their "submission " to their false god, is in truth rebellion against the true and living God.
They are the descendants of their baal worshipping anscestors.Living and working in this area I have had many opportunities to speak with islamic persons.
I try to zero in on sin ,and the need of a Priestly work of atonement,that can only be found at the cross. They are taught that this is not necessary.
Nevertheless it is truth even if they are not taught it ,so I urge them that in America they are free to search it out. I try to remove any and all hope for anyone who remains outside of Christ crucified, risen and ascended.
Many who were born in other countries have never actually heard a real christian teaching on the cross. We must speak the truth in love.


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## RamistThomist

bahnsen debate with Jew and Muslim.
MP3 - Bahnsen - Judaism, Christianity, and Islam


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## MW

Iconoclast said:


> I try to zero in on sin ,and the need of a Priestly work of atonement,that can only be found at the cross. They are taught that this is not necessary.



This is my strategy also. It brings out the real issues whether one is dealing with false religions like Islam or sects like JWs. Their devaluation of Jesus Christ is owing to their high estimation of their own ability to find their way to God.


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## No Longer A Libertine

I would ask them why they are so insecure they have to kill all in disagreement with them i.e Danish cartoonists and Dutch film makers, Australian tourists in Bali, Spanish citizens commuting on trains, London bus commuters, American passengers on airplanes and people at work in the World Trade Center and Pentagon.

They need to be brought to the realization they worship Satan and if they continue the sword must be wielded against them in response.

Even the most caustic and venomous of "Christian" faithful such as Westboro do not resort to warfare and murderous violence like the Jihadists employ.


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## Contra_Mundum

Travis,
Since the average Christian is about as likely to come into contact with a Jhiahdi-Muslim as he is to win the lottery, I think you might want to approach that Muslim living down the hall with a bit more tact. He's probably going to tune _you_ out as a "radical, fundamentalist Christian nut-job" instead of ever listening to a single word of the gospel you might want to share. He's going to think, "here's a typical American, who never bothered learning one thing about mainstream Muslims. To him, I'm not so much a person as a cartoon."


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## biblicalthought

> Just curious to your thoughts on what are the top 3 Apologetical arguments against Muslims and Islam?



This thread has become more of an outreach/evangelism to Muslims thread rather than the apologetics thrust that "I believe" Dr. McMahon intended.


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## No Longer A Libertine

Contra_Mundum said:


> Travis,
> Since the average Christian is about as likely to come into contact with a Jhiahdi-Muslim as he is to win the lottery, I think you might want to approach that Muslim living down the hall with a bit more tact. He's probably going to tune _you_ out as a "radical, fundamentalist Christian nut-job" instead of ever listening to a single word of the gospel you might want to share. He's going to think, "here's a typical American, who never bothered learning one thing about mainstream Muslims. To him, I'm not so much a person as a cartoon."


If they are a devout muslim they will see that the Koran justifes Jihad, if they are Americanized and neutralized to being a mere cultural practioner of some Muslim customs and prayers then you can approach them like any deist or theistic moralist.

As for myself I have contact with the most unhinged manifestations of Islam and know what it is beneath a thin veil.


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## Semper Fidelis

armourbearer said:


> Iconoclast said:
> 
> 
> 
> I try to zero in on sin ,and the need of a Priestly work of atonement,that can only be found at the cross. They are taught that this is not necessary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is my strategy also. It brings out the real issues whether one is dealing with false religions like Islam or sects like JWs. Their devaluation of Jesus Christ is owing to their high estimation of their own ability to find their way to God.
Click to expand...


Exactly.

I have had a few opportunities to talk with Muslims. Actually, religion is not a taboo subject with Arabs but you do need to know not to talk about their wives because that is bad taste.

I think they believe they are on very solid ground when it comes to interacting with Christians because, pre-suppositionally, there is nothing in the Christian Book that they believe can challenge them.

In fact, in the interactions I've had with Muslims, they actually want to acknowledge that they believe they give honor to Isa (Jesus) but they are committed to the idea that the Koran's revelation is the truth concerning Him and that our Bible is a corruption.

I think then, fundamentally, you're dealing with a worldview that will take most arguments that you might want to construct and they'll be re-interpreted and dismissed.

When it comes right down to it, they are a religion that has a low view of the Holiness of God and the rigteousness of men. What might seem external and hypocritical to us in the outward conformity to rules as a means of righteousness is not unusual to them.

But men are, in the final analysis, created in the image of God. I believe we ought to speak very directly that God is perfect in His holiness and demands perfection from us. We need to uphold the deity of Christ and the necessity of His deity and humanity to be a propitiation for our sins.

You know, I heard from a Filipino brother recently that Japanese people have a hard time understanding sin because they think of sin as disobeying the law and, by and large, Japanese people obey the rules of their society. Muslims are the same way in the externals.

But I reminded this brother that I think one of the reasons the Japanese don't understand sin is because many Christians don't present it in the way that Paul did - to an audience that included Jews that would have had the same external notions or pagans as well.

I understand there will always be nuances and rabbit trails to help a man understand the issues but, in the final analysis, I don't care what background a man comes from, he _knows_ the Law is just and holy and good and that he is not. I believe making men aware of sin and then aware of the Gospel is always the best argument against any religion.


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## Reformed Covenanter

reformedcop said:


> Q: Is your god holy and just?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Have you ever lied, stolen, dishonored your parents ... etc.
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Are you going to paradise/heaven when you die?
> A: Yes/Maybe ... Its up to allah.
> 
> Q: How can a god that is holy and just allow _you_ heaven without a payment? If he is truly just, he can't wink at your sins against him. If your god can just wink at your sin and put it aside ... he is not holy and he is not just.



Satan can create a false religion, but he cannot create a holy God. For that reason alone we know that Islam is false.


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## Stephen

biblicalthought said:


> Islam can be proven to be a false religious system when its truth claims are tested to see if they correspond to reality. Furthermore, Islam's Quran is full of innacurate statements concerning the Bible. Here is my top three, for now...
> 
> 1. The Quran's claim that Noah's flood took place in Moses' day is completely false (Sura 7:136, compare 7:59ff).
> 
> 2. Muhammad's serious error in confusing Mary, the mother of Jesus, with Mary, the sister of Moses and Aaron, reveals that he had great confusion as to biblical time periods and biblical figures. (see Sura 19:28)
> 
> 3. The Quran's misrepresentation of the Christian doctrine of the Trinity proves that Muhammad never understood the doctrine of the Trinity. In Sura 5:73-75, and 5:116, Muhammad mistakenly thought that Christians worshipped three gods: the Father, the Mother (Mary), and the Son (Jesus).
> 
> These top three are sufficent to prove that the Quran cannot be "inspired" and "perfect - without error" and contain these irreconcilable errors. However, my preference is to provide responses to specific attacks on Christianity. Is there a context to your question, or just askin' for a top three?



Thanks, brother. I think very few people realize this. I appreciate your work and ministry in this area. We can attack Islam because of its view of women or other secondary issues, but we must remember it is a false religion and it book is false as well.


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## Stephen

Daniel Ritchie said:


> reformedcop said:
> 
> 
> 
> Q: Is your god holy and just?
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Have you ever lied, stolen, dishonored your parents ... etc.
> A: Yes.
> 
> Q: Are you going to paradise/heaven when you die?
> A: Yes/Maybe ... Its up to allah.
> 
> Q: How can a god that is holy and just allow _you_ heaven without a payment? If he is truly just, he can't wink at your sins against him. If your god can just wink at your sin and put it aside ... he is not holy and he is not just.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Satan can create a false religion, but he cannot create a holy God. For that reason alone we know that Islam is false.
Click to expand...



Excellent point, brother. Islam has no concept of holiness, so they think nothing of mudering, raping, drunkeness, or any other violation of God's holy law.


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## Contra_Mundum

No Longer A Libertine said:


> If they are a devout muslim they will see that the Koran justifes Jihad, if they are Americanized and neutralized to being a mere cultural practioner of some Muslim customs and prayers then you can approach them like any deist or theistic moralist.
> 
> As for myself I have contact with the most unhinged manifestations of Islam and know what it is beneath a thin veil.



And I've lived in the Middle East for over four years of my life. I've met both westernized and non-westernized Muslims, in this country and in other countries. If anything, you might find a greater percentage of the fanatical kind in the west, for the same reason that minorities often contain the most committed, devout followers--they are clinging to an identity that defines them in the face of a warping majority culture. So anyway, I think I might know a thing or two about "devout" Muslims.

Most Muslims know about as much of their Koran as Christians know their Bibles. Hardly at all. They are familiar with the "good parts". The "generous" parts. They have various schools on interpretation the way Christians have a variety of theological strains.

It is commonly heard that "wahabism" is the strict, fundamentalist style, common out of SaudiArabia. Kind of like our own "fundamentalists" are out of the South. Shiites and Sunnis are at odds with each other. Sunnis dwell in S.A., Shiites dominate Iran. So which is it? Is S.A. (where all the 9-11 bombers came from) the hotbed of fundamentalism? Or is Iran?

To say that this observation just proves that Islam is virulent and violent, no matter the strain, is a totally flattened perspective. It takes no factors other than religious affiliation into view. In fact, it blinds people who should be better analysts. What about the fact that leaders in these countries are as "religious" as our own leaders? Or that they use the same kinds of propaganda tactics as ours do to shape public opinion? What about the fact that these same people have "border conflicts" with their neighbors, or sometimes try to influence the stability or instability of their region for their own advantage? When we flatten everything down to some "Islamic world" single issue paradigm, we redefine reality to suit ourselves and our own preconceived notions.

Anyway, this is off topic. And I never meant to get off on some geopolitical tirade. But it is relevant to the main topic in one way: I still think that starting off a witness opportunity with a Muslim by asking him to defend people's actions whom he wouldn't defend, and might resent being group-associated with, is a HUGE mistake. It reveals (in my opinion) a tendency to adopt a collectivist mindset as our principal a priori, when we should be trying to find out what a person's individual commitments are, before we pigeonhole him. Even if he regards some % of the violence sympathetically in a general way, he is probably viewing the situation through primarily a political lens, and not a strictly religious one.


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