# How would you respond to this? Believe like a Calvinist but live like an Arminian



## moral necessity (May 11, 2008)

I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?

Blessings!


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## VictorBravo (May 11, 2008)

moral necessity said:


> I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?
> 
> Blessings!



"Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian, get a migraine from double mindedness and always be anxious because you forgot some little detail."

Or, more simply, one cannot serve two masters.


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## Simply_Nikki (May 11, 2008)

Well.. if I can throw in another interpretation of that cliche; it could also be a way of indicting Calvinists who have an elitist, prideful attitude because they "know" the truth, which I've heard many Arminian brothers and sisters accuse us of. Unfortunately I can't say it's not entirely true, Calvinists are guilty of it, but so are Arminians.

Nevertheless, I don't think a Calvinist nor Arminian can confuse "love your neighbor as yourself" in terms of living like a Christian and producing fruits of the Holy Spirit. Many Arminians will never understand God's complete sovereignty and character, but obedience to the way God instructed us to live does not change regardless of how you believe Christ saves sinners.

However, living like a Calvinist is living biblically. Calvinism is the balanced view, so to equate living like an Arminian to having a balanced view of human responsibility is erred.


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## Contra_Mundum (May 11, 2008)

It might have been said differently: "Believe as if it is all up to God; live as if it is all up to you." Which has a certain ring of truth/reality to it. We believe, for instance that perseverance in the faith is not ultimately up to us, but to the God who started, and finishes his work in us (Phil. 1:6). But we have to live lives of perseverance, making our calling and election sure (2 Pet. 1:10). This, despite the fact that I can't make it any more "sure" than it already is; I can only make it "sure" to ME.

On the other hand, the saying you gave could be an attempt to slam Calvinists for not being evangelistic enough. As if Arminians were the only ones doing evangelism. After all, the Arminian gets 50 "decisions" and they all "count" regardless of their perseverance. Woo hoo, I'm a great soul-winner. I don't have to keep 'em, just catch 'em. Consistent Arminians believe a person can lose his salvation. The others think the man can live like the devil, and he's got his fire insurance. But they "get out there." And much of those efforts harden the ground, like in the "burnt over district." So, in this case, we just stick to our more patient, less flamboyant evangelism, and look for long-term results.


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## PuritanCovenanter (May 11, 2008)

Orthodoxy leads to orthopraxy.


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## raekwon (May 12, 2008)

The way I've heard it said is "work like an Arminian, but sleep like a Calvinist" . . . as it's been stated already, "work like an Arminian" is just a phrase that's meant to guard us against slothfulness disguised as trust in God's sovereignty, and "sleep like a Calvinist" means that we are to rest in that sovereignty, being anxious for nothing.

I'd only use such a phrase with someone who I know is at least as grounded in their trust in God's sovereignty as I am (for instance, the other guys on my session). Otherwise, it can be pretty dangerous.


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## danmpem (May 12, 2008)

moral necessity said:


> I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?
> 
> Blessings!



I know a lot of people who want to believe like Calvinists but evangelize like Arminians. A lot of that comes from the fact that they have never been taught by educated and Godly teachers of the Word on how to deal with the really tough questions about living out the God-centered life. It's easy to say "It's all up to you" when evangelizing, and then just teach the new convert the doctrines of grace later. It is a lot harder to preacher a God-centered gospel from the start, and most are too ill-equipped to take the long and hard path of a Christ-centered life.


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## jogri17 (May 12, 2008)

The main problem is that most uneducated arminians feel that the free offer isn't free if God must act first. It goes back to the idea that it is unfair for God to give a command (i.e. repent) with out the person who hears having the ability to do it.


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## HaigLaw (May 12, 2008)

I'd put that one in the pile with others like:
dance like no one's looking,
love like you've never been hurt.

Fun sayings that won't bear much intelligent analysis.


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## Pergamum (May 12, 2008)

I think the taint of hyper-calvinism in our past has made such a saying possible. Had we been more faithful in the past the saying could have been merely "believe and live like a calvinist"..... Only bad calvinism can make arminianism look good.


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## puritan lad (May 12, 2008)

If I were to consistently "live like an Arminian", I would be afraid to get out of bed in the morning. I'd be afraid that my all-powerful free will might mess up God's Sovereign decrees. Better to repeat the sinner's prayer at an altar and then lock myself away somewhere, lest I mess up.

Thankfully, even most diehard Arminians are inconsistent.


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## pilgrim3970 (May 12, 2008)

Simply_Nikki said:


> Well.. if I can throw in another interpretation of that cliche; it could also be a way of indicting Calvinists who have an elitist, prideful attitude because they "know" the truth...




Nikki,

I think you bring up an excellent point. The problem is, many Calvinists are indeed elitist and prideful (as are many Arminians, as you pointed out). I have been in entire congregations that display this. In reality, I think that what it boils down to is sound theology mixed with spiritual immaturity. Ironically, it almost becomes a works based salvation where the attitude is almost one of "I am saved by virtue of having all of my doctrinal ducks in a row" (which in turn is almost, in a weird way, a sort of reformed gnosticism) not that we are saved by _grace_ through faith. In fact, I'd have to question how well those with prideful and elitst attitudes _really_ understand the doctrines of grace - seems to me that once you gain some understanding that God chose us and called us to himself and that without this we would be lost, any tendency towards pride is cut off at the root. There is a big difference in being able to regurgitate reformed doctrine and really understanding its implications.


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## pilgrim3970 (May 12, 2008)

Contra_Mundum said:


> So, in this case, we just stick to our more patient, less flamboyant evangelism, and look for long-term results.



In otherwords, we are about making disciples not mere converts


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## JBaldwin (May 12, 2008)

If you live like a Calvinist, you will trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. You will acknowledge Him in all your ways, and God will direct your path. 

If you live like an Arminian, you will trust in your free will with all your heart, you will lean on your own understanding, you will acknowledge your free will in all your ways, and your free will direct your path.


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## Thomas2007 (May 12, 2008)

moral necessity said:


> I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?
> 
> Blessings!



No thank you. And they aren't trying to balance anything, they are just confused.

Generally, this type of comment comes from someone intimating that Arminianism is evangelistic and Calvinism isn't. It's ignorance, to any extent that modern Arminianism is evangelistic it borrowed it from Calvinism - the Dutch Arminians weren't evangelistic and no one that is consistently Arminian is evangelistic.


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## Semper Fidelis (May 12, 2008)

moral necessity said:


> I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?
> 
> Blessings!



I'd say that he doesn't know what Calvinism teaches if he thinks man has no responsibility. If he's thinking of passion then, again, I think he doesn't know what Calvinism teaches.

I'd also note that our ethics follow our convictions. I know many Arminians and I would not want to live like them. Honestly, given how lax most Arminians are about the Holiness of God and sin, they tend to be very laid back about attending Church or about methods that actually undermine the Gospel. Concerning evangelism, many Arminians are happy to tell people about Jesus but fall way short of the Great Commission that requires that we baptize and disciple people.

I'll stick to the Scriptures.


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## Reformed Covenanter (May 12, 2008)

moral necessity said:


> I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?
> 
> Blessings!



If I was to live like an Arminian the following would be my practice:

1. There is no hope of anyone being saved, as the sovereign will of man is more mighty than God. I can't pray for God to save sinners, instead I should pray to man's independent free-will.

2. Christ has not definitely purchased the redemption of anyone, so I cannot offer salvation to sinners.

3. I can never have any assurance to salvation, as I may apostasize on my death-bed. Thus I can never tell anyone that Christ is able to save to the uttermost them that believe on him, or tell them that those who belive in Christ shall not perish but definitely have eternal life.

So living like an Arminian really does not appeal to me.


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## Yodas_Prodigy (May 12, 2008)

*Stereo Type*



moral necessity said:


> I know of someone who uses a cliche' that says: "Believe like a Calvinist, but live like an Arminian". I think they're trying to balance God's sovereignty with man's responsibility. But, something seems amiss here. What do you think? and, How would you respond?
> 
> Blessings!



I think that this comment is used by some because of a stereo type of Reformed believers. Whether that stereo type is true or not, it rings true with a majority of Arminians.

How many Reformed folks have come to your door in an E.E. visit or invited you to Church? How many have shared Christ with others? I can tell you that I have had many Baptists (none Reformed), many pentacostals, and of course, lots of JW's and Mormons come to my door.

Not once have I been invited to church or had the gospel shared to me by a Reformed type. 

The closest I have gotten to any Reformers outside the four walls of my home was a Reformed Baptist at work who gave me my First Copy of the London Confession.

Blessings,

YP


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## moral necessity (May 12, 2008)

JBaldwin said:


> If you live like a Calvinist, you will trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not unto your own understanding. You will acknowledge Him in all your ways, and God will direct your path.
> 
> If you live like an Arminian, you will trust in your free will with all your heart, you will lean on your own understanding, you will acknowledge your free will in all your ways, and your free will direct your path.



Putting this response along with Bruce's response above gives a good sense of what I perceive they're trying to mainly emphasize with this quote. I'm sure it's used by others in the other ways mentioned as well. The danger I think is what is mentioned here by JBaldwin, and I think it ought to breed a serious caution due to it's implications. For, if one lives like it is all up to them, they tend to look inward for their resource, rather then humbly looking outward to God. In their rightful defense against human passivity, they often run to human activity at the expense of a sustained dependence upon God. Their prayer life becomes dry, and their egos become proud. I think God often lets these sorts of individuals run in that direction as far as their rope will allow them, and then, when they realize that "apart from him they can do nothing", then God shows them that it is "not by horses and chariots, but by his might" that any christian race is run. Calvinism keeps this balance appropriately, in my opinion.

Blessings!


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