# Adam, Noah and ANE covenants



## arapahoepark (Dec 28, 2013)

Are there any works regarding the covenant(s) made with Adam and Noah uaing ANE sources? Do Kline or Dumbrell get into that in their works?
Thanks!

One other small thing. I ran across this when looking up Dumbrell and seems to be a shot against covenant theology particularly in the New Testament:


> Secondly, the word "covenant" is very rare in the NT and when it does appear it is ordinarily in the context of discontinuity, e.g. 2 Corinthians 3 and Romans 9 (it pains me to say it, but that is one observation where the Dispensationalists are actually right!). Thirdly, I think it worthwhile to consider James Dunn's proposal that Paul has a theology of "promise" rather than a theology of "covenant" per se, esp. in Romans 9-11.


What say you?


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## Peairtach (Dec 28, 2013)

*Trent*


> Are there any works regarding the covenant(s) made with Adam and Noah uaing ANE sources? Do Kline or Dumbrell get into that in their works?
> Thanks!



I don't know, but I think a lot of covenant theologians would say that covenanting was something revealed to man long before the Hittites picked it up, and was in various forms before the Spirit instructed Moses regarding the Mosaic Covenant. After all the bond of love that is marriage is a form of covenant, and we read about covenanting in Abraham, Isaac and Jacob's time. With the CoW, the Protoevangelium, and the Noahic Covenant, you're going back to the dawn of history, so any extant ANE Covenants would be shaped by them, rather than the case of the Mosaic Covenant which shows parallels - and major differences - with near contemporaneous covenants.

The archaeologist, Kenneth Kitchen in his "On the Reliability of the Old Testament", pads out a theory that Moses had previously been employed in the Egyptian diplomatic service and the Spirit used his knowledge of such treaties in the inspired writing of (parts) of the Pentateuch. No more than interesting speculation, as we have no way of knowing what Moses was doing in his first forty years. 

At the end of the day it is enough to know that this is way that God wanted the Pentateuch to be written, whether He used any of Moses' experience or not.



> One other small thing. I ran across this when looking up Dumbrell and seems to be a shot against covenant theology particularly in the New Testament:
> 
> 
> > Secondly, the word "covenant" is very rare in the NT and when it does appear it is ordinarily in the context of discontinuity, e.g. 2 Corinthians 3 and Romans 9 (it pains me to say it, but that is one observation where the Dispensationalists are actually right!). Thirdly, I think it worthwhile to consider James Dunn's proposal that Paul has a theology of "promise" rather than a theology of "covenant" per se, esp. in Romans 9-11.
> ...



I'm sure a lot of covenant theologians would say that the word Trinity isn't used anywhere in the NT, either. Are Dunn and Dumbrell saying that the New Testament administration isn't conditional _in any sense_? The Abrahamic _Covenant_ is called "the promise" in Galatians and isn't annulled by the 1,400 year administration of Moses.


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## arapahoepark (Jan 4, 2014)

bump?


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## hammondjones (Jan 4, 2014)

> you're going back to the dawn of history, so any extant ANE Covenants would be shaped by them



I think this is right. In By Oath Consigned Kline says sort of in passing, 


> (It may be recalled here that in ancient mythology the slaying of the chaos dragon is the necessary preliminary to the establishment of the world order.)



I think that is the _ouroboros_.

Dumbrell references the same in Covenant And Creation: An Old Testament Covenant Theology with regard to Isaiah 51:9.

That has more to do with ANE mythology, but it's close. My meaning is that the precursor to the Adamic and Noaahic covenants was the subduing of waters.


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## Peairtach (Jan 4, 2014)

hammondjones said:


> > you're going back to the dawn of history, so any extant ANE Covenants would be shaped by them
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't really know what either myths about slaying the chaos dragon, or the truth about the forming and filling of the world after Genesis 1:2



> And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.



has got to do with, or taught Man or teaches us about, covenants and covenanting, but maybe that is what you are saying, Brandon; so I apologise if I'm just clarifying that point.


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## hammondjones (Jan 7, 2014)

What I'm saying is that the Noahic Covenant, with its antecedent conquering of the waters, would have influenced life and mythology for generations, and we can see that in many of the deluge myths around the world. 

It is not a direct answer to your question; more of an aside.


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