# Calling yourself a pastor – when you’re not



## Steve Curtis

Okay, so we know that there are lots of self-proclaimed pastors, bishops, and even “apostles” and “prophets” in the broad, “non-denominational” world of churches. What about when someone in the Reformed tradition does so?

How would you respond when, if the "pastor" is challenged, the defense is that “it’s just a word”; “it’s no big deal”; or “I do the work of a pastor, so why not call myself one?” Apart from the matter of deception (claiming an ordained office without having been ordained), what would be your biblical or confessional objection?


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## Scott Bushey

kainos01 said:


> Okay, so we know that there are lots of self-proclaimed pastors, bishops, and even “apostles” and “prophets” in the broad, “non-denominational” world of churches. What about when someone in the Reformed tradition does so?
> 
> How would you respond when, if the "pastor" is challenged, the defense is that “it’s just a word”; “it’s no big deal”; or “I do the work of a pastor, so why not call myself one?” Apart from the matter of deception (claiming an ordained office without having been ordained), what would be your biblical or confessional objection?



Consider street preaching. The majority of the world thinks that the lay-person is an actual (p)reacher. When terms are intermingled and redefined, this is the result. You will notice that the majority of these types of dysfunctions occur within the credo rank and file.


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## Scott Bushey

The term is used once in the NT. Eph 4:11


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## Edward

kainos01 said:


> what would be your biblical or confessional objection?


9th Commandment. WLC 144 and 145.


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## Steve Curtis

Edward said:


> 9th Commandment. WLC 144 and 145.



Of course, I agree; however, that's why I said "Apart from the matter of deception" - assume for the sake of this discussion that the party involved doesn't admit that it is a 9th commandment violation (in other words, they challenge the whole idea of "pastor" as a term tied to formal ordination). What else?


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## Gforce9

Some people will never submit to a biblical ecclesiology. Street preachers come to mind. I don't believe this generally would happen in a confessional community, especially a Presbyterian community, though situations have happened, but that usually results in proper ecclesiology; one is removed from office, barred, police restraining order,..... If a man posed as "a God ordained OPC minister", but was not ordained, he would, at least, not be allowed to minister in an OPC church....maybe further action would be taken.
How would I respond? I wouldn't have to. It would hit my session, then my presbytery, and if necessary, my GA. Someone like that wouldn't make it past my session..... In an anti-ecclesiastical situation (most of pop-evangelicalism), one had better hope for a wise pastor (SBC, Independent), a wise congregation (under Congregationalism), or a wise local elder board (some evangelicals). Without vetted and ordained men (plural) to guard the gate, the wolves will sneak under the gate and eat the sheep.....


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## Edward

2 Tim 2:14-21; 1 Tim 3:7 1 Tim 1:7;


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## MW

It depends on what they are pastoring? If there is something legitimate to their work it is in the interests of Christian mission to encourage them towards doing things in an orderly and regular manner without doing anything to harm the work. If it is obvious that their work is being carried out on cultish and divisive principles then it is in the interests of Christian mission to oppose and rebuke it.

Luke 9:49-50: "And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us."

Luke 11:23: "He that is not with me is against me: and he that gathereth not with me scattereth."

Government helps the church as the church serves the truth.


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## Steve Curtis

MW said:


> If there is something legitimate to their work it is in the interests of Christian mission to encourage them towards doing things in an orderly and regular manner without doing anything to harm the work.



I understand the thrust of this argument, but at what point does the work (assuming it has legitimacy) eclipse "doing things in an orderly and regular manner"? In other words, how long and how far can one go outside of the orderly and regular manner - even in the conducting of legitimate work - before correction/discipline/censure becomes appropriate?


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## MW

kainos01 said:


> In other words, how long and how far can one go outside of the orderly and regular manner - even in the conducting of legitimate work - before correction/discipline/censure becomes appropriate?



Are we talking about something inside or outside one's own church government? If inside it likely requires immediate action by following the practice and procedure of the church. If outside, there is little one can do apart from keeping at a distance and waiting on the Lord's judgment. In Australia self-initiated groups and leaders are rampant. Some of them I know to be proclaiming the gospel of Christ, and I have to follow the apostle's grace of rejoicing that Christ is preached even though I have misgivings. In two instances the work has fallen apart because of the disorderly nature of it. If we believe there is wisdom in the Lord's way we can have confidence it will stand the test of time whereas irregularities are bound to initiate their own problems and come to an end one way or another.


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