# Who is the most dodgy popular preacher



## Jon 316

Candidates should be judged on their hermenuetics, Exegesis, Christ centredness and if you must... hairstyles and suits.


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## Marrow Man

"Dodgy"?


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## Jon 316

apologies... local dialect for erm not what it should be. I.e you buy a used car which seems to work... you drive it down the hill and the wheels fall off. Its not what you thought...its 'dodgy'...


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## Marrow Man

I say "hinky", but not everyone in the States uses that either! 

I'm just glad you didn't mean preachers like Elijah or Jonah who try to run from the pulpit!


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## Romans922

Jon 316 said:


> apologies... local dialect for erm not what it should be. I.e you buy a used car which seems to work... you drive it down the hill and the wheels fall off. Its not what you thought...its 'dodgy'...



So are you asking which of these preachers are really bad (according to hermeneutics, exegesis, etc.) or are you asking which one do we look at and seems like they would be good, but really a heretic?


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## ColdSilverMoon

I chose all of them but Rick Warren. While Warren has his faults, I wouldn't lump him in with the rest of that crowd.


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## Romans922

I LOVE IT: ColdSilverMoon voted for each one on a question of 'Who is the MOST...". haha


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## Jon 316

Romans922 said:


> Jon 316 said:
> 
> 
> 
> apologies... local dialect for erm not what it should be. I.e you buy a used car which seems to work... you drive it down the hill and the wheels fall off. Its not what you thought...its 'dodgy'...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So are you asking which of these preachers are really bad (according to hermeneutics, exegesis, etc.) or are you asking which one do we look at and seems like they would be good, but really a heretic?
Click to expand...


hmmm good question... probably the first, but I'd sure be interested to know your opinion on the second point. In a sense that is more dangerous.

-----Added 2/19/2009 at 05:39:05 EST-----



Romans922 said:


> I LOVE IT: ColdSilverMoon voted for each one on a question of 'Who is the MOST...". haha



that could be my fault, ignore the 'could', it is my fault. I enabled the setting to do this... perhaps the question should read who are the most dodgy...bad grammar... and to think I am a school teacher! scary


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## Romans922

Don't worry about it, i like the poll so far, even allowing for multiple answers, it is more fun!

To answer the second question, I don't think any appear good. Whether it starts with a 'preacher' wearing a Hawaiian shirt, or a goofy smile, or suite that only millionaires can wear, or having a show on TBN, or it being a woman, they all appear 'not good' up front.


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## PresbyDane

The plage of Osteen


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## Jon 316

man, Hinn and Osteen are neck and neck at this point! Yet both are very different. Interesting.


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## E Nomine

I guess Harold Camping is no longer a preacher, per se.


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## ManleyBeasley

I picked Warren because he looked the most orthadox. The rest are heretics. I may have messed up.


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## Grymir

I voted for Olsteen, no explaination necessary. But Hagee would be one too!


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## ColdSilverMoon

Romans922 said:


> I LOVE IT: ColdSilverMoon voted for each one on a question of 'Who is the MOST...". haha



Yeah, it was more a vote to exclude Warren...I guess my vote was for least dodgy of those listed.


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## Spinningplates2

Where is Jimmy Swaggart?


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## No Longer A Libertine

Well in terms of scope of deception I go with Osteen and jakes.

For depth of heresy i go with DuPlantis as he claims to have actually been to Heaven and stood before Christ.

Must this kind Englishman only point out American heretics?


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## Marrow Man

Grymir said:


> I voted for Olsteen, no explaination necessary. But Hagee would be one too!



Agreed. Hagee can preach so that he sounds almost orthodox most of the time!


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## No Longer A Libertine

Marrow Man said:


> Grymir said:
> 
> 
> 
> I voted for Olsteen, no explaination necessary. But Hagee would be one too!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Agreed. Hagee can preach so that he sounds almost orthodox most of the time!
Click to expand...

Hagee is an unelected zionist politician that uses a church pulpit as his office.


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## lynnie

You left out Gino Jennings. Locally, he's by far the finest  TV preacher.

The holy spirit tells him what to preach when he gets up front; you should never prepare a sermon ahead of time. He has these body guards standing next to him who echo "amen". Lately he put out a bible with the apocrypha and an extra book or two. He's so mesmerizing to watch, I mean, its better than comedy when he gets going. I know the WHInn guys watch TBN for fun, but Gino Jennings beats them all if you ask me.


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## steven-nemes

Benny Hinn is probably the most absurdly strange and heretical person on that list, I think.

[video=youtube;x4yFHQ7Ih6k]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4yFHQ7Ih6k[/video]


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## reformed trucker

Osteen, hands down. He can say absolutely nothing with such style!


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## Rich Koster

Dodgy.......they are all full of flip flop and heresy, but Osteen takes the cake for denying the exclusivity of Christ twice during interviews. Well shucks gee golly, I wouldn't say just quite that


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## Theognome

Hinn's nine persons of the Trinity is a classic of intellectual idiocy.

Theognome


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## Webservant

See, my interpretation was that you wanted the one who APPEARS to be sound but really isn't when you dig down. Hinn, Jakes, Copeland, Myers - you can tell right up front, so I didn't vote for them.


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## Theognome

Webservant said:


> See, my interpretation was that you wanted the one who APPEARS to be sound but really isn't when you dig down. Hinn, Jakes, Copeland, Myers - you can tell right up front, so I didn't vote for them.



I voted for Hinn because although I can see everyone on the list as a bonefide fool, the typical American 'Christian' has a discernment nearly equal to a tomato.

Theognome


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## discipulo

I voted for Benny Hinn too, I saw him here in Lisbon in 1990 in a Pentecostal Convention called Eurofire, all of it was really bad, but Hinn never even quoted a single verse of the Bible. What he said and did you might imagine, to sad to be mentioned.


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## A.J.

I voted for Benny Hinn as well. He was in my country last Feb. 2003, and I attended his healing crusade with my parents and other people from my former Pentecostal church. I did not know anything about Reformed Theology back then, but I was quite suspicious already of some of the things he was and is fond of doing. He is extremely popular among Filipino Pentecostals. 

Virtually everyone present in the Manila mega-church where his crusade was held got "slain in the Spirit." I was not spared because my mother held my left hand, and the old woman beside me held my right hand. Both of them got "slain in the Spirit" and I simply allowed myself (like the rest) to fall back into the chair behind me.


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## Theognome

The real problem with this poll should be obvious- None of these men drive a Dodge!

Theognome


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## Edward

I voted for Hinn, but my old favorite wasn't on the list - Does anyone remember Rev. Ike?


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## DMcFadden

I struggle between Hinn and Osteen for different reasons.

Hinn is adept at pontificating with theatricality and absurd putative authority, even when uttering blather and nonsense.

Osteen comes off as "spiritual" while redefining the faith so that it is even lighter and less substantial than the "Christianity light" that some critics suggest he peddles. His inability to stand up for the exclusivity of Christ is below contempt.


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## SemperEruditio

My vote is for Theodore Dexter Jakes. He has an empire. In Maryland he has Jenkins and his monstrosity of a building, the First Baptist Church of Glenarden. TD promotes a doctrine of doctrine-less Christianity. His followers do not even know that he is not a Christian...unless Modalists are now Christians. He is permeating a culture with the idea that unless the sanctuary has all the lights, sights, and sounds of his megalo-church then they are not in a real church. I tire of explaining to those caught in the web of deceit that getting someone to attend a church service which is actually a Hip-Hop concert in disguise is not difficult. I am shocked at how pragmatic my colleagues are when they tell me that what he is doing must be from God because look at his success. I bring up the God-given success of 50 cent or Jay-Z...does success based on numbers and money prove anything?

Yes. TD has my vote. If you would have had Creflo Dollar up there then it would have been him. Black, successful, "christian"... they have thousands if not millions being duped every week. Heck Dollar has satellite churches. You go and get to see him on a big screen TV from the comfort of a pew. I know of 4 families right off the top of my head who attended a Dollar franchise. When asked to pray one of these poor souls prayed for a 5 series BMW. She read off the specs from the catalog. It was a painful prayer to listen about "rack & pinion steering...anti-lock brakes...7.22inch....3.475mm...."

My apologies. Got off on a tangent there. I have been praying for the gift of tears and true repentance and along with that comes a passion that I wasn't prepared for.


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## No Longer A Libertine

Where's the Barack Obama option?


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## Knoxienne

steven-nemes said:


> Benny Hinn is probably the most absurdly strange and heretical person on that list, I think.
> 
> YouTube - Benny Hinn Gets PWND




I agree - that's who I voted for, although Kenneth Copeland is a close second - he has that used car salesman "evil dummy" grin that's unnerving as all get-out. I heard him on Hank Hanegraaff's Christianity and Crisis book on tape and his clips of CC were really creepy.


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## Marrow Man

Theognome said:


> The real problem with this poll should be obvious- None of these men drive a Dodge!
> 
> Theognome



I drive a Dodge! What are you trying to say?!?

The stumpy idiot heretic raising its ugly head again...


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## Theognome

Marrow Man said:


> Theognome said:
> 
> 
> 
> The real problem with this poll should be obvious- None of these men drive a Dodge!
> 
> Theognome
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I drive a Dodge! What are you trying to say?!?
> 
> The stumpy idiot heretic raising its ugly head again...
Click to expand...


So is it dodgey, heretical, stumpy idiot now? You're truly a man of many talents!

Theognome


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## Michael Doyle

I had to vote my conscience and I find the ministry of TD Jakes to swoon the most people who believe they are following a true man of God. He is everything wrong with the modern church. Dont get me wrong, it is neck and neck with Osteen. However it would seem Osteens heresy is more by way of omission (lack of scriptural support, etc.) Jakes does more to convince the layman of his orthodoxy and uses and twists scripture to get you there. The charismatic eruptions just give me shivers and the people are all drinking the kool aid.


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## beej6

I knew the word 'dodgy' because I used to watch 'Sandbaggers.' Great show.


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## Rich Koster

dodgy |ˈdäjē|
adjective ( dodgier , dodgiest ) Brit., informal
dishonest or unreliable : a dodgy secondhand car salesman.
• potentially dangerous : activities like these could be dodgy for your heart.
• of low quality.

The difference in poll results seems to be based on the secondary uses of the word dodgy.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

Osteen gets my vote hands down.

The Joel Osteen's of the world and their “Word of Faith” prosperity gospel is moving people away from the biblical messages in favor of "feel-good, junk-food" doctrine. The whole “Word of Faith”, a.k.a.“Health and Wealth”, movement is classified as a cult by those who have stud-ied the doctrines.

From a Jamie Gangel MSNBC interview with Osteen:

"A college dropout who has never been to seminary school, there is no fire and brimstone in his church. If the message sounds simple and upbeat, that's just the way he wants it.

The Christian-based, non-denominational congregation draws a remarkable mix of races, and his televised self-help sermons are number one in Nielsen ratings and broadcast all over the world. And if that's not enough, his book, "Your Best Life Now: 7 Steps to Living at Your Full Potential," has topped the New York Times best-seller list, selling 1.5 million copies.

[Osteen has] developed his own style - sermons are strictly optimistic and address practical, everyday issues, like time management. His critics say it is all too simplistic, that Joel is part of a new trend called prosperity gospel. "
See: Evangelist Joel Osteen doesn?t preach to the choir- msnbc.com

From Osteen's own mouth:

"You've got to speak it out. Your words have creative power. One of the primary ways we re-lease our faith is through our words. There is a divine connection between you declaring God's favor and seeing God's favor manifested in your life. And some of you are doing your best to please the Lord. You are living a holy consecrated life, but you're not really experiencing God's supernatural favor. And it's simply because you're not declaring it. You've got to give life to your faith by speaking it out." 
(Audio clip from Bible Answer-Man Broadcast, April 26, 2004, ).

"Early in our marriage, Victoria and I were out walking through our neighborhood one day when we came upon a beautiful new home in the final stages of construction… Victoria was excited. She turned around, looked back at the home, and said, 'Joel, one day we're going to live in a beautiful home just like that!…' Over the next several months, she kept speaking words of faith and victory, and she finally talked me into it. She convinced me that we could live in an elegant home like the one we saw. I got rid of my limited thinking and I started agreeing with her. I started believing that somehow, some way, God could bring it to pass. We kept on believing it, seeing it, and speaking it."
(Osteen, Your Best Life Now: 7 Steps to Living at Your Full Potential, Chapter One, )."

Just telling your flock something to make them feel good and ignoring the rest of God's revelations turns God into a vending-machine of goodies and the bible a collection of fortune-cookie messages. Joel is perpetuating the same cult gospel his father, John Osteen, began.


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## Rich Koster

Yup....I voted Osteen


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## shackleton

Does NT Wright fall into this category in anyone's opinion?

-----Added 2/21/2009 at 12:07:55 EST-----

I think a couple of those, Osteen and Meyers, could be classified as helpful...if they were not pastors of large churches and people weren't getting there spiritual needs met by them.

-----Added 2/21/2009 at 12:11:53 EST-----

I kind of wonder if a couple of the others, Hinn and Copeland, are just sociopaths? 

In a documentary on the brain it described lots of people who have the traits of sociopaths who are not serial killers. These are people with smaller than average amygdala's, the part of the brain that lets a person sympathize with others. The show listed sales men who think nothing of stealing someone's life savings, but I instantly thought of televangelists.


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## DMcFadden

Erick, sociopaths? Some are just so incredibly self-centered that they fit the DSM description of narcissists. Hinn, especially. Copeland may be the real deal; he certainly seems to believe his blather. But, Copeland adds a measure of anger to his act that gets kindof scary.


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## Jon 316

so decieved or decievers or both? Or is that not for us to speculate?


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## Duncan

Has to be Hinn I am shocked at the amount of people who have heard him and speak well of him.


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## Jon 316

Duncan said:


> Has to be Hinn I am shocked at the amount of people who have heard him and speak well of him.



To be fair, I heard Hinn one time on the God channel and he was speaking about the lost. No tehatrics, no money appeals, just speaking about the lost and the gospel. 

I was moved to my knees and deep intercession and prayer. 

But I a ppreciate that doesnt change teh fact that there are lots of theological and ethical issues surrounding hime.


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## shackleton

DMcFadden said:


> Erick, sociopaths? Some are just so incredibly self-centered that they fit the DSM description of narcissists. Hinn, especially. Copeland may be the real deal; he certainly seems to believe his blather. But, Copeland adds a measure of anger to his act that gets kindof scary.



A broader definition just means that they can't empathize with people, it does not mean they dream of going of killing sprees.


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