# Disappointment with Steve Brown



## Reformingstudent

As some may already know, I use to be a big fan of Steve Brown and his ministry, key life. But lately I have come to see that Steve seems to be a bit too friendly with the Roman catholic church and has even gone to great lengths to keep from offending his catholic audience. 
This week though I could not help but wonder how far he is willing to compromise in order to keep his catholic friends. 
Here is an excerpt from his keylife letter:
I have a friend who teaches at a rather large city-wide Bible study. During the Q&A, someone asked him if he thought the Pope was in heaven. My friend loves Christ with all his heart, has a Ph.D. from a very important seminary, believes the Bible--every word of it--and is super orthodox in his theology. Not only that. He is kind, gentle and irenic almost all the time.

He was kind to the young man who asked the question. (I would have said, "What are you...some kind of fruitcake?" That's why I'm in trouble much of the time and he isn't.) He said something to the effect that Pope John Paul loved Christ, believed in the resurrection, had a Biblical Christology (the place where the Church has always measured heresy) and seemed to manifest the "Fruit" of righteousness. Then my friend said that, while he wasn't the one to decide, he felt that the Pope was certainly in heaven.

Well, through an email that someone wrote quoting my friend, his comments got on the Internet.

(Don't ever, by the way, post anything on the Internet you don't want the world to see. It's there forever or, at least, until Jesus returns. I could tell you stories.)

Now my Bible teacher friend is getting angry letters (I'm getting angry letters too but that is nothing new for me, while it has scared the spit out of my friend) from all over the country...people who think the Pope is in hell and who are, I think, quite glad that he is.

What's with that?

Okay, back to the text that I shared with you above. It says a lot about a lot of things but it clearly suggests that Jesus had a view of who belonged to Him and who didn't that is at variance with some of our views.

One other text before I finish. This one is found in Matthew 7:21 where Jesus says:

"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven."

Do you think that we may have gotten this thing wrong? Could be that those who are angry at the Pope, think he is in hell and would be glad if he were, are the ones that might end up there themselves, and that those who, like the Pope, get some of the propositions wrong (from my Evangelical perspective) but who have a heart for Jesus and do incredible works of righteousness will be in heaven...and maybe even right up close to the throne?

That, it seems, is a "no-brainer"...but I could be wrong, I suppose.

No, I'm right. Deal with it!

A number of years ago, Pope John Paul II wrote a bestseller titled Crossing the Threshold of Hope. In response to that, a number of us (16 in all, mostly Protestant) wrote a book in response. That book was titled A Readers Companion to Crossing the Threshold of Hope.

I was one of the writers in that second book. In preparation for my response (clearly and uncompromisingly Protestant...but irenic), I read a lot about the Pope. I found myself disagreeing with some of the doctrines he espoused but I was quite drawn to his kindness, his forgiving spirit, his support for life and his love for Jesus.

Listen, you don't get that kind of thing from anybody but Jesus.

The Gatlin Brothers used to have a song about the "bowery choir" in Nashville where the winos sang, "If there isn't any Mogen David in heaven, I don't want to go."

Well, I sort of feel like that about the Pope.

If Pope John Paul II isn't in heaven, I'm not sure I want to go.

There. I feel better.

In His Grip,


Steve.

I like Steve Brown and probably would not have come to the Reformed Faith if not for him but it saddens me that this man who knows the bible so much and even teaches at Reformed 
Seminary can compromise with the truth. Is it just me or does something seem out of place here when those who claim to be Reformed can so easily go to bed with those who deny the faith they claim to hold dear? 

Sorry all, this just has be puzzled.

Thanks. 

Tom

~Title edited by administration for clearity


[Edited on 5-29-2005 by Scott Bushey]


----------



## Scott Bushey

There you have it.........

2Co 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. 

2Co 11:3 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 
2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. 

Gal 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 
Gal 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 
Gal 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 
Gal 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.


----------



## C. Matthew McMahon

> If Pope John Paul II isn't in heaven, I'm not sure I want to go.



Looks like Steve Brown is opting to go to hell.

[Edited on 5-29-2005 by webmaster]


----------



## RamistThomist

who is steve brown?


----------



## alwaysreforming

Steve Brown preaches at my old church a lot, Northland Community Church. I'm a big fan of his as well. He certainly ruffles a lot of feathers, especially from the legalists, who always have something bad to say after he leaves. In reference to the above I don't know what to say.

Perhaps its as the saying goes, even our heroes have feet of clay.


----------



## Reformingstudent

> _Originally posted by webmaster_
> 
> 
> 
> If Pope John Paul II isn't in heaven, I'm not sure I want to go.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Looks like Steve Brown is opting to go to hell.
> 
> [Edited on 5-29-2005 by webmaster]
Click to expand...


I have a hard time believing that he really means that considering the fact that he always seems to preach against works religion. Sort of an irony isn't it?


----------



## Reformingstudent

> _Originally posted by alwaysreforming_
> Steve Brown preaches at my old church a lot, Northland Community Church. I'm a big fan of his as well. He certainly ruffles a lot of feathers, especially from the legalists, who always have something bad to say after he leaves. In reference to the above I don't know what to say.
> 
> Perhaps its as the saying goes, even our heroes have feet of clay.



Good reason to keep him in our prayers.
His teachings on grace helped me more than anything else ever did when I was coming into the reformed faith. I still like the man and am glad the Lord has used him in such a tremendous way to help some know the truth. I pray his departure from the faith is just a temporary lapse. I don't think he has left the faith in full but he does seem to be compromising an awful lot.


----------



## ConfederateTheocrat

> _Originally posted by Draught Horse_
> who is steve brown?



He is a man who is a friend of a guy who posted something he shouldn't on the internet, which is dumb, and I'm next.

He also said something good about the Pope, who is in hell.


----------



## Reformingstudent

"He also said something good about the Pope, who is in hell."

~ yeah! and apparently it seems he wants to join him.


----------



## Consistent

hmmm.... I have had the opportunity to meet Steve and admit he is a delightful man. With that said, I have never been a big fan of his preaching style. There, one up and one down..

I have been dealing with this issue for quite some time...not specifically the Pope's eternal state, but what exactly is saving faith? What exactly is true orthodoxy?

From my research so far I have to say it is the ecumenical creeds which define orthodoxy.

Dr. McMahon (or anyone else), I love the reformed faith, it has literally saved my life. 

If the creeds are the standard of orthodoxy, as the reformed position states, how is Rome unchristian and John Paul in hell...does not the Catholic church affirm the ecumenical creeds?..please help.


----------



## Scott Bushey

> _Originally posted by Consistent_
> hmmm.... I have had the opportunity to meet Steve and admit he is a delightful man. With that said, I have never been a big fan of his preaching style. There, one up and one down..
> 
> I have been dealing with this issue for quite some time...not specifically the Pope's eternal state, but what exactly is saving faith? What exactly is true orthodoxy?
> 
> From my research so far I have to say it is the ecumenical creeds which define orthodoxy.
> 
> Dr. McMahon (or anyone else), I love the reformed faith, it has literally saved my life.
> 
> If the creeds are the standard of orthodoxy, as the reformed position states, how is Rome unchristian and John Paul in hell...does not the Catholic church affirm the ecumenical creeds?..please help.



They subscribe to the Apostles Creed..............however, it all depends upon how one defines what they subscribe to.


----------



## Consistent

> _Originally posted by Scott Bushey_
> 
> 
> 
> _Originally posted by Consistent_
> hmmm.... I have had the opportunity to meet Steve and admit he is a delightful man. With that said, I have never been a big fan of his preaching style. There, one up and one down..
> 
> I have been dealing with this issue for quite some time...not specifically the Pope's eternal state, but what exactly is saving faith? What exactly is true orthodoxy?
> 
> From my research so far I have to say it is the ecumenical creeds which define orthodoxy.
> 
> Dr. McMahon (or anyone else), I love the reformed faith, it has literally saved my life.
> 
> If the creeds are the standard of orthodoxy, as the reformed position states, how is Rome unchristian and John Paul in hell...does not the Catholic church affirm the ecumenical creeds?..please help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> They subscribe to the Apostles Creed..............however, it all depends upon how one defines what they subscribe to.
Click to expand...


Yes sir, I have run into this before, debating on the interpretation of the apostle's creed. So how do we demonstrate that our interpretation is the orthodox one? Do we then appeal to the confessions? So then we define historic Christian orthodoxy by the interpretation of the Scriptures by the ecumenical creeds AND the reformed confessions? Am I understanding, or is my young age showing through?


----------



## fredtgreco

John,

I think it is not that the ecumenical creeds are wrong or unhelpful; they are extremely helpful.

The difficulty with the Apostles Creed (if in its context you could call it a difficulty) is that it is insufficient. After all, it really has no statement at all on how man is justified before God. Not that it is not reformed; it simply does not address the matter.

One important thing to understand about creeds and confessions, is that they are not written in a vacuum. Their writers don't simply sit down and say, _"I think I'll write down everything that the Bible says."_ Rather, they are written in the context of controversy. That is why different creeds and confessions address different issues.

I would argue that the minimum understanding for orthodoxy is the ecumenical creeds (God, the Trinity, the Person of Christ) and a rudimentary understanding of salvation by grace. Within that rudimentary understanding, I include Arminians. Romanists have a deeply flawed soteriology.


----------

