# Matt 24 and the Trumpet



## wsw201 (May 28, 2004)

Matt 24:29 &quot;Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a [b:875606ced2]trumpet[/b:875606ced2], and they will gather together His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

In looking at the above passage, especially verse 31, the plain reading of the text would certainly lead one to conclude that it refers to the Second Coming. One thing to consider is other passages where "the sound of a Trumpet" is used in conjunction with Christ's return:

1 Thess 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the [b:875606ced2]trumpet [/b:875606ced2]of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.

1 Cor 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last [b:875606ced2]trumpet[/b:875606ced2]. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.


All of the above references use the same reference of a Trumpet at Christ's return. Using these additional verses can an argument be made that Matt 24:29-31 refer to the Second Coming?


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## sastark (May 28, 2004)

Ok, I'lll take the bait. 

No, Matt. 24 does not refer to the second coming. A couple of reasons for this: After the trumpet of Matt. 24, the elect are gathered. If it were the last judgment, the elect would have already been gathered. Second, the 1 Cor. passage seems to hint at more than one trumpet sounding in history, hence the need to specify a &quot;[b:eca625f1d3]last[/b:eca625f1d3] trumpet&quot;.


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## tcalbrecht (May 28, 2004)

[quote:e8f5a601f4][i:e8f5a601f4]Originally posted by sastark[/i:e8f5a601f4]
Ok, I'lll take the bait. 

No, Matt. 24 does not refer to the second coming. A couple of reasons for this: After the trumpet of Matt. 24, the elect are gathered. If it were the last judgment, the elect would have already been gathered. Second, the 1 Cor. passage seems to hint at more than one trumpet sounding in history, hence the need to specify a &quot;[b:e8f5a601f4]last[/b:e8f5a601f4] trumpet&quot;. [/quote:e8f5a601f4]

Is anyone really suggesting these are literal trumpets in view?


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## wsw201 (May 28, 2004)

[quote:1549586c33]
No, Matt. 24 does not refer to the second coming. A couple of reasons for this: After the trumpet of Matt. 24, the elect are gathered. If it were the last judgment, the elect would have already been gathered. 
[/quote:1549586c33]

Exactly. So Matt 24 must deal in some sense with the days just prior to the last judgment when the elect are gathered.


[quote:1549586c33]
Second, the 1 Cor. passage seems to hint at more than one trumpet sounding in history, hence the need to specify a &quot;last trumpet&quot;. 
[/quote:1549586c33]

Paul wrote the the letter to the Corinthians as well as the letter to the Thessalonians, note that in both passages he is talking about the same event and does not use the word &quot;last&quot; in 1 Thess 4.


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## sastark (May 28, 2004)

[quote:7277a11074][i:7277a11074]Originally posted by tcalbrecht[/i:7277a11074]

Is anyone really suggesting these are literal trumpets in view? [/quote:7277a11074]

No, no. I wasn't trying to suggest they are literal trumpets, either. Only saying that using the word &quot;last&quot; seems to indicate there is more than one.


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## sastark (May 28, 2004)

[quote:e59c62a0e3][i:e59c62a0e3]Originally posted by wsw201[/i:e59c62a0e3]
Exactly. So Matt 24 must deal in some sense with the days just prior to the last judgment when the elect are gathered.
[/quote:e59c62a0e3]

Well, I'm not sure why it has to be [b:e59c62a0e3]just[/b:e59c62a0e3] before the last judgment.

[quote:e59c62a0e3]
Paul wrote the the letter to the Corinthians as well as the letter to the Thessalonians, note that in both passages he is talking about the same event and does not use the word &quot;last&quot; in 1 Thess 4. [/quote:e59c62a0e3]

And yet he does in 1 Corinthians....


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## VanVos (May 28, 2004)

Matt 24:31 is a reference to the feast of trumpets see Numbers 10. Just as the silver trumpets were blowing to gather in Israel so the angels go forth in the church age to gather in the elect see also Heb 1:14 and 2 Thess 2:1. Which will reach its consumation at the last trump 1 Cor 15:51 on the Last day John 6:39 at Christ return 1 Thess 4:15-18 which God bring about in his own time 1 Tim 6:14-15.

VanVos


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## sastark (May 28, 2004)

So, I go and check out Matthew Henry on Matt. 24 and lo and behold he says it [b:4638d1da77]does[/b:4638d1da77] refer to the Second Coming. Now I'm gonna have to go look into this more! Thanks a lot Wayne!


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## wsw201 (May 28, 2004)

[quote:d89e968cca]
Many commentators have taken it for granted that the expression &quot;coming in the clouds&quot; refers to a visible coming of Christ. A careful study of the Scriptures, however, reveals that that is not a necessary interpretation. A similar expression occurs in Isaiah 19:1, &quot;Behold, the Lord rideth upon a swift cloud, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it.&quot; Although this passage speaks of the Lord riding upon a cloud and of his presence, nevertheless we know that the Egyptians did not see the Lord in a personal, visible way. The Lord riding upon a swift cloud indicated a coming in judgment against the Egyptians. 
[/quote:d89e968cca]

What about this?


Acts 1:6 Therefore, when they had come together, they asked Him, saying, &quot;Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?&quot; 7 And He said to them, &quot;It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority. 8 But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.&quot; [b:d89e968cca]9 Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight.[/b:d89e968cca] 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, [b:d89e968cca]11 who also said, &quot;Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven.&quot; [/b:d89e968cca]


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## Christopher (May 28, 2004)

[quote:ec7840464d][i:ec7840464d]Originally posted by Paul manata[/i:ec7840464d]
So, there must be people alive today that are over 2,000 yrs old? [/quote:ec7840464d]

What, are we talking about Scott Bushey again?


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