# What must I do to be saved?



## Hamalas

So what exactly is the bare minimum that someone must believe to be saved? I am coming more into contact with groups like the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic traditions whose churches teach much false doctrine. But what about the individuals? I think most of us would say that there are individuals who are Christians even though they are in the apostate Catholic church, but how do we determine this? What key doctrines are absolutely non-negotiable? Please provide specific Scripture references if you can!


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## Michael Doyle

God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life.

Sorry Ben, I couldnt resist, off to the repentance corner with me


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## Hamalas

That will be an extra 20 years in purgatory for you Michael.


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## gene_mingo

You need to be part of Gods elect.


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## Theognome

Romans 10:9-10 immediately comes to mind. The implications of the simple 'Jesus is Lord' and 'Believe upon the resurrection' are deep and wide. Nonetheless, I believe it to be the smallest distillation of the tenets of the Gospel.

Theognome


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## Hamalas

gene_mingo said:


> You need to be part of Gods elect.



True, but if I'm speaking with an Eastern Orthodox friend and am trying to determine if he is a Brother in Christ what questions do I need answers to? Obviously we will have many serious disagreements, but what exactly must he hold to to be saved?


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## gene_mingo

Hamalas said:


> gene_mingo said:
> 
> 
> 
> You need to be part of Gods elect.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> True, but if I'm speaking with an Eastern Orthodox friend and am trying to determine if he is a Brother in Christ what questions do I need answers to? Obviously we will have many serious disagreements, but what exactly must he hold to to be saved?
Click to expand...


I really think it is an unanswerable question. I don't think it is possible for us to know the plan of salvation by God for some one else. I think the only real distinction you might be able to make is if they would be considered "Christian" in their theology.

Sorry if this isn't a very helpful answer, I just don't think anyone can really answer the question, but God.


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## Hamalas

True. I guess I need to rephrase my question, because you're right, _we_ can't determine if someone else is saved. So here is my revised question: "What must someone believe to be considered an orthodox Christian? What are the basic doctrine's one must adopt to be a member of the visible church?"


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## gene_mingo

Hamalas said:


> True. I guess I need to rephrase my question, because you're right, _we_ can't determine if someone else is saved. So here is my revised question: "What must someone believe to be considered an orthodox Christian? What are the basic doctrine's one must adopt to be a member of the visible church?"



I would start with the Nicene Creed. I think it is a good foundation for defining christianity.


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## Michael Doyle

The Apostles Creed is really the truly fundamental statement to that end as well.


> I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
> the Maker of heaven and earth,
> and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
> 
> Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
> born of the virgin Mary,
> suffered under Pontius Pilate,
> was crucified, dead, and buried;
> 
> He descended into hell. [See Calvin]
> 
> The third day He arose again from the dead;
> 
> He ascended into heaven,
> and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
> from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
> 
> I believe in the Holy Ghost;
> the holy catholic church;
> the communion of saints;
> the forgiveness of sins;
> the resurrection of the body;
> and the life everlasting.
> 
> Amen.


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## Herald

> So what exactly is the bare minimum that someone must believe to be saved?



I understand your reason for asking this question, but I reject it's premise. 



> Acts 16:30-31 30 and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?" 31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."



And what does this look like in the life of a professed believer?



> Matthew 10:38-39 38 "And he who does not take his cross and follow after Me is not worthy of Me. 39 "He who has found his life will lose it, and he who has lost his life for My sake will find it.





> Matthew 22:36-37 36 "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?" 37 And He said to him, "'YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.'



God requires _*all *_of us; the material and immaterial. There is no minimum. It's a fallacious argument. This is part of the gospel message. Belief will affect change in the whole man.



> 2 Corinthians 5:17 17 Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.


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## DonP

gene_mingo said:


> I really think it is an unanswerable question. I don't think it is possible for us to know the plan of salvation by God for some one else. I think the only real distinction you might be able to make is if they would be considered "Christian" in their theology.
> 
> Sorry if this isn't a very helpful answer, I just don't think anyone can really answer the question, but God.



If this was true then how could we preach the gospel if we don't know what it is? 

There are some facts that one must believe to be saved. They have to believe something. 

And that much must be in the preaching. I do not think the entire content of the gospel needs to be in one message. A person may have to hear several messages before they hear and know what they must believe. 

then of course there is the issue of credible profession. What must they know and believe for a session to admit them to membership. 

Is this the same content or more or less? 

Personally I love the Sum of Saving Knowledge made by the Westminister Assembly and was originally included in the Westminster standards books.

-----Added 3/30/2009 at 12:19:53 EST-----



Hamalas said:


> True. I guess I need to rephrase my question, because you're right, _we_ can't determine if someone else is saved. So here is my revised question: "What must someone believe to be considered an orthodox Christian? What are the basic doctrine's one must adopt to be a member of the visible church?"



I think both are valid questions but yes they are two separate questions. The real question is are they 2 separate answers?

-----Added 3/30/2009 at 12:29:59 EST-----

I think they are great questions and I think the church is not clear on them today. 

Manyy say for sure the second is session controlled. ie they do not want to confessionally dictate what specifics one must believe and profess to be allowed membership and recognized as a member of the visible covenant believers. 

And for some it is age dependent. They believe less is required to be believed if one is younger. 

And I do not think that we have the whole story in scripture passages such as what must I do to be saved. ... 

There was more told to the person that they had to know. 

Also consider that to the JEw who had been in the covenant and had been educated quite a bit they were told by Peter to repent and believe. 
Not much needed other than to repent of not accepting Jesus as the messiah. 
And to believe He was. 
They had been taught about God since children, seen the sacraments and types, and knew he law, that they were sinners etc. 

Whereas for a Gentile with no background more explanation of God, His law etc. was needed. Like what Paul preached in Mars Hill. 

So I do agree there is a lot of content to preaching the gospel it is not some short snippet as the evangelicals of today would have us think. 

Receive Jesus, Pray this prayer, come forward and profess Christ as savior etc. 

I think there is more one must know and believe. 

Let see what others say.


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## cih1355

Hamalas said:


> So what exactly is the bare minimum that someone must believe to be saved? I am coming more into contact with groups like the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic traditions whose churches teach much false doctrine. But what about the individuals? I think most of us would say that there are individuals who are Christians even though they are in the apostate Catholic church, but how do we determine this? What key doctrines are absolutely non-negotiable? Please provide specific Scripture references if you can!



First of all, I would like to say that if there is a true Christian in the Roman Catholic Church, then he or she is not really a Roman Catholic. I don't see how someone can be considered a Roman Catholic if he or she rejects Roman Catholic teaching. 

Acts 11:26 says that disciples were first called Christians in Antioch. Disciples of whom? Jesus. Which Jesus? The Jesus of the Bible. Christians are disciples of the Jesus of the Bible. Are Mormons Christians? No, their Jesus is different than the Jesus of the Bible. Are Jehovah's Witnesses Christians? No, the Jesus they follow is not the Jesus of the Bible. 

Isaiah 43:10-11 teaches that there is only one God and that there is no other savior besides God. Which God? The God of the Bible. If you believe in a god other than the God of the Bible, then you are not a Christian. 

According to Acts 4:12, salvation is found only in the Jesus Christ. Which Jesus is Acts 4:12 talking about? The Jesus of the Bible. If you believe in a Jesus that is not the Jesus of the Bible, then you are not saved. You are not a Christian. 

The doctrine of the Trinity is non-negotiable. If someone denies the Trinity, then he does not believe in the God of the Bible. He believes in some other god. 

The doctrine of the penal substitutionary atonement of Christ is non-negotiable. God demands that there is punishment for sin. God cannot allow sin to go unpunished. If Jesus was not punished in the place of other people, then they would be punished in hell. 

The doctrines of the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ and justification by faith alone are non-negotiable. If someone thinks that he can merit salvation, then he cannot be a Christian. If someone thinks that his faith, repentance, or obedience is the basis upon which he is justified, then he cannot be a Christian.


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## DonP

Do you think the thief on the cross understood the trinity? 

Do you think Lydia understood the Trinity??

I didn't think it was even a clearly thought out doctrine to most until 300 years of people had been Christians, let alone thousands of years of believing Jews

Are you sure it is non-negotiable that one must believe in or understand the trinity to have saving faith? 

Now we could require it to be a member of a church. But to be converted? Does its understanding and belief come with saving faith?


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## Jon 316

This is a tricky and complex question, and having worked in interdenominational contexts, one I have wrestled with for years. 

I have come to the place that it is a question of regeneration. Is the person regenerate? Has the Holy Spirit made this person alive? This can obviously be hard to discern. Some argue that we cannot ultimately know. While this may be true to some extent. At the same time Jesus said 'you shall know them by their fruits'. 

A conversation about 1) Their experience of God 2) Their scriptural beliefs 3) their conversion 4) Their walk with the Lord 5) Their attitude to scripture etc all need to be taken into account.

We should be able to discern the working of the Spirit in a person's words, testimony and life. This 'evidence' of the Spirit may be small. there me be very little truth, 'Jesus loves me this I know for the bible tells me so' may be the height of their theology. It may exist in a mish mash of trash. Their lives may not 'line up' in many areas (think corinth!). But there will be something somwhere. There will be some testimony of Christ. There must be some sign of spiritual life. And perhaps most importantly their should be some desire to grow and increase in their walk with Jesus.


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## A.J.

I learned from a godly Reformed Baptist pastor that the irreducible minimum information a person should know and believe before he can be saved is the death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus. These historical events are of "first importance" in the words of the Apostle Paul. 



> 1 Cor. 15:3f. (ESV) For I delivered to you as of *first importance* what I also received: that *Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures*, that he was buried, that *he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures*,



The doctrine of justification is inseparable from the death and resurrection of Christ (Rom. 3-4; Gal. 3). So before a person can be justifed by faith before God, he must know what Christ's death and resurrection accomplished and entail. Paul assumes this in his epistle to the Galatians. 



> Gal. 2:16 (ESV) _we know_ that *a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ*, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because *by works of the law no one will be justified*.



Therefore, before a person can be saved, he must _know_ that the *only* basis of his acceptance before God is Christ's righteousness apart from his own righteousness. He must understand that his own merits or good works will never be able to add to the satisfaction of God's justice and wrath. This is where most Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox men and women fail. They believe in the death and resurrection of Christ, but reject the Bible's teaching on justification by grace alone through faith in Christ alone. Of course, this does not mean perfect knowledge on the part of the sinner. He doesn't have to know exactly the terms used by theologians in explaining the Bible's doctrine of salvation at the moment of his conversion. But as mentioned, there is an irreducible minimum before one can truly respond to the call of the gospel. Sinners must understand the Bible's teaching on the relationship of Christ' death and resurrection to how they are declared righteous and pardoned in the sight of God.

This is where we see the power of the gospel. God brings sinners to a godly sorrow for their sins (2 Cor. 7:10) and grants them the gift of faith (Phil. 1;29 Eph. 2:8-10) upon hearing the message of the gospel, the death and resurrection of Christ.



> Rom. 1:16f. (ESV) For I am not ashamed of *the gospel*, for it is *the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes*, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, “*The righteous shall live by faith*.”


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## Michael Doyle

I agree, this is a very complex question. I cannot pretend to know what bit of information the hearer must be exposed to before becoming saved. The thief on the cross again to present to us a minimal example of saving knowledge.

Paul says he preaches Christ crucified. This has always been my example and understanding of how much one must truly know. The rest is all of equal importance but not by way of coming to Christ.


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## Herald

I've yet to see one post in this thread that can justify (scripturally) a minimum amount of knowledge in order to be regenerated. There may be a minimum amount of knowledge that the church may require in order to acknowledge a credible profession of faith. The two are not necessarily the same thing.

The scripture is clear on the evidences a Christian should display in his life. Good works (Eph. 2:10), keep Christ's commandments (John 14:15), love the brethren (1 John 3:11). Ours is a whole salvation. It is not just WHAT we know, it is WHO we are; or more accurately, who we are made to be. We are new creatures in Christ (2 Cor. 5:17). We are to come out of idolatry; including apostate religious systems (2 Cor. 6:16; Rev. 18:4). We are to worship God in spirit and truth (John 4:23,24). 

I would call on a professed believer in an apostate religious system to come out and be separate. Would we accept the profession of a person who continues worshipping in the Mormon, Islamic or Jehovah's Witnesses tradition? Why then would we accept the profession of someone who remains in Roman Catholicism or dead orthodoxy? At the point of their profession I am now more concerned with their actions, not just their knowledge.


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## Jimmy the Greek

Hamalas said:


> . . . I think most of us would say that there are individuals who are Christians even though they are in the apostate Catholic church, *but how do we determine this?* . . .



First, I would ask why we think we "must determine this"? There is surely a sense in which we cannot know the heart of an individual. We can condemn RCC teaching in certain areas, but we must be more careful regarding the individual.

Secondly, the facts of the gospel are common ground (between us and the RCC or EO) in the Apostles and Nicene Creeds. The issue therefore is "believing." While some may not allow a real distinction between believing and trusting, I think this is the issue in one way or another.

If I am trusting in more that Christ and Him alone, i.e. Christ plus something I have done or something the church has done for me, I am still in my sins. And that's how I would put it in gut level one-on-one conversation.


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## Jon 316

We need to remember that new birth is not a result of believing right stuff but that believing right stuff (primarily Jesus) follows new birth. 

This conversation is begining to sound like if I believe x and y I can be saved. The reality is people can believe perfectly orthodox things yet still be unregenerate. This issue always comes down to regeneration by the Spirit.


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## Mushroom

So if we are not permitted to attempt a determination, how does a father go about deciding whether to allow a young man to court his daughter? If all other criteria are met in regards to character and ability to support a wife and family, and yet he is RC or EO, or even arminian baptist or charismatic, or PCUSA, do we have the right to ask pertinent questions to determine to the best of our ability where their faith lies?

I have my own position, but want to see what others' opinions are in the matter.


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## Herald

Brad said:


> So if we are not permitted to attempt a determination, how does a father go about deciding whether to allow a young man to court his daughter? If all other criteria are met in regards to character and ability to support a wife and family, and yet he is RC or EO, or even arminian baptist or charismatic, or PCUSA, do we have the right to ask pertinent questions to determine to the best of our ability where their faith lies?
> 
> I have my own position, but want to see what others' opinions are in the matter.



Brad, do you see the evidence of faith in the life this young man? Is he still participating in idolatrous religious activity? Ask this question about any professed believer. We all fall short in our walk at times, but the Christian life is one of becoming more like Christ. Is that evident in the life a person held captive to another god?


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## DonP

Herald said:


> I've yet to see one post in this thread that can justify (scripturally) a minimum amount of knowledge in order to be converted as an adult. .



Can someone believe nothing and be saved? 

Then its that, that you disagree with this statement about.

But yes it is not the same as what one must know to have a credible profession to be admitted to the visible church. 
We don't admit people to the invisible church or covenant of grace, we admit them to a fallible human covenant.


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## Jimmy the Greek

Brad said:


> So if we are not permitted to attempt a determination, . . .



I did not intend to suggest "we are not permitted" to make judgments. 

The OP asked for minimum content in terms of facts necessary for salvation, as if we can establish a short checklist to determine one's standing before God. My post and others suggest that this somewhat misses the real points at issue.

Peace.


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## DonP

Gomarus said:


> Hamalas said:
> 
> 
> 
> . . . I think most of us would say that there are individuals who are Christians even though they are in the apostate Catholic church, *but how do we determine this?* . . .
> 
> 
> 
> 
> First, I would ask why we think we "must determine this"? There is surely a sense in which we cannot know the heart of an individual. We can condemn RCC teaching in certain areas, but we must be more careful regarding the individual.
Click to expand...


Right it is not even our job to determine if one is elect or even regenerated by the Spirit. ( Unless you are a baptist because they can only baptize true believers) (( Sorry)) 

Our job is only to determine if they have a credible profession that gives us reasonable evidence they may be and enough to allow them as members of the visible church. This is a fallible judgment by fallible humans. 

It is not our job to keep unregenerates out of the visible covenant people, as long as they are living in a manner consistent with a credible profession. Israel was full of them, Jesus said to leave them in and He would sort them on the last day. 

So keep these separate. 
one is 
1. Is there some specific knowledge one must believe to be converted by the hearing of the gospel. 
2. What is that info, so we be sure to include it in our gospel preaching
3. is this required in an infant that is regenerated, ( again assuming God can regenerate an infant and does not have to wait until he is of reasonable age to regenerate him) 

Second is 
1. What must one know in order to have a credible profession to be admitted to membership in the visible church which is made up of regenerate and unconverted people, who maintain a credible profession. 
2. What visible fruit or evidence in their outward life must they manifest and we see to admit them? 
3. Is this age related?

I say the reformed churches, though close, are not united on part one or part 2. 

Some ministers go a bit far thinking the keys to the kingdom are actually allowing them to determine who will be in heaven and is saved. 

Whereas it really is the only the keys to the visible church kingdom, covenant. ie when they excommunicate and reinstate, obviously the minister did not turn the keys and unregenerate him then regenerate him later. 

I know why it is easier to be an Arminian. They don't have to deal with the two parallel truths and keep them separate, Predestination and human responsibility. They only have human free will to consider.


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## PresbyDane

Belive in the Lord and be Baptised


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## DonP

Re4mdant said:


> Belive in the Lord and be Baptised



Which Lord?

Matt 24:24

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
KJV

1 John 4:1-3

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2 By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God, 3 and every spirit that does not confess that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is not of God. And this is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard was coming, and is now already in the world. 
NKJV


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## PresbyDane

Sorry:
The Lord Jesus Christ, son of Mary, also known as Jesus Bar Josef, also known as the carpenter from Nazereth, also known as Messiah and Emmanuel and the son of man and the begotten of the father.
The one who was a babe in a manger, fled to egypt grew up in Nazereth, was lost ones in Jerusalem as 12 years old.
Who was known to heal the sick, feed the hungry, wlak on water raise the dead.
The savior of our soul.

If you get more than one hit on google, ask me for more info


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## toddpedlar

As has already been pointed out, though, you can believe a whole lot of correct doctrine and be as damned as Satan. When one tries to pin down some small doctrinal confession (like, say, the Nicene Creed) as the "bare minimum that you have to believe to be saved", one often forgets the fact that you can believe all those things and much, much more and still be damned. Lots of people believe every article of the Nicene Creed that are hell-bound. The question is problematic, then, from the get-go.


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## DonP

OK so what if we focus just on the easy one. 

What minimum must one know and profess to be recognized b the church as an adult to be granted membership and admission to the table. 

Hows that?

BTW I think you need to know nothing to be regenerated. The Spirit gives you a new nature that can understand the scriptures and respond to them. This can occur in infancy or preganancy. 

Though if not as a small child then it is usually through the means of the foolishness of preaching the whole counsel of God, but still a supernatural work of the Spirit, not as a result of the means, or any particular understanding in the hearer, but through them as a means, and bringing faith and conviction and sorrow for sin to the mind and will unto repentance. 

So we may not know when we were regenerated because the fruit may show up gradually over time. The Bible never tells us to discern the time of our conversion but to check to be sure we are in the faith today, by looking for fruits of repentance and of the Spirit and obedience and ongoing ongrowing conformity to Christ and mortifying sin and the flesh. 

John 3:8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, *but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes*. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit." 

9 Nicodemus answered and said to Him,"How can these things be?" 

10 Jesus answered and said to him, "Are you the teacher of Israel, and do not know these things? NKJV


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## lshepler412

A person must believe that they are a sinner, that they are condemned and separated from God, the maker of all things as a result, that they must confess and receive him by faith as their substitution for sin.


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## Ask Mr. Religion

_Knowledge (Notitia)_, a cognitive function, is the foundation of saving faith. Men must “love the truth in order that they may be saved” (2 Thessalonians 2:10). “Faith” that is devoid of knowledge is “believing the lie” that ultimately condemns (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12).

_Assent (Assensus)_ cognitively provides the conviction that the knowledge so acquired about Christ is indeed true and one’s spiritual needs are actually (not merely experientially) met by the provisions of Christ’s gospel. The unsaved can know the gospel’s propositions, and clearly comprehend how these propositions play their part in the Good News, yet still not believe in their factual truth or that they meet his or her needs spiritually. For example, see Matthew 21:25; Mark 11:31; Luke 1:20; John 2:22; Acts 8:12; Romans 4:3, and much more.

_Trust (Fiducia)_, can be viewed as Clark relates it to assent: “as assent is cognition passed into conviction, so trust is conviction passed into confidence” (_Religion, Reason, and Revelation_, Gordon H. Clark). Confidence is the most characteristic act of saving faith, for the sinner transfers reliance for pardon, cleansing, righteousness in complete abandonment to Christ—joyfully received and rested upon for his salvation. This is an essential component of faith, otherwise a person’s “faith” is just the same as those of demons (James 2:19 and Matthew 8:29), who possess no cognitive love for Christ—instead they cognitively hate Christ—refusing to trust Him.

Matthew 24:10, Matthew 24:12; 1 Timothy 1:19; 1 Timothy 4:1; 1 Timothy 4:10, Hebrews 6:4-6; 2 Peter 2:20-22 all teach that “temporary faith” exists, and it is not true faith in Christ as described above. Just as in Matthew:

Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy, 
Mat 13:21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures for a while [endures = _proskairos_ = temporary], and when tribulation or persecution arises on account of the word, immediately he falls away.

Likewise, as in 2 Peter 2:20-22, we find the Scriptures teaching that it is quite possible to have exhilarating and uplifting experiences of the power of the gospel, to have close contact with forces operating in the kingdom of God’s grace, such that the effects produced in a person are indistinguishable from those produced by true regenerating and sanctifying grace. Yet these experiences do not partake of Christ nor are its _experiencers_ heirs to eternal life. These persons who have this temporary faith were never one of the elect of God, were never regenerated, and thus are not true believers. The _prima facie_ evidence of their temporary faith is that they fall away from the faith, as John so rightly states in 1 John 2:19.


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## feunekes

Have you ever considered Mark 10 : 17 - 31

Quote"
17As Jesus started on his way, a man ran up to him and fell on his knees before him. "Good teacher," he asked, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" 
18"Why do you call me good?" Jesus answered. "No one is good—except God alone. 19You know the commandments: 'Do not murder, do not commit adultery, do not steal, do not give false testimony, do not defraud, honor your father and mother.'[d]" 

20"Teacher," he declared, "all these I have kept since I was a boy." 

21Jesus looked at him and loved him. "One thing you lack," he said. "Go, sell everything you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me." 

22At this the man's face fell. He went away sad, because he had great wealth. 

23Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, "How hard it is for the rich to enter the kingdom of God!" 

24The disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said again, "Children, how hard it is[e] to enter the kingdom of God! 25It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." 

26The disciples were even more amazed, and said to each other, "Who then can be saved?" 

27Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." 

28Peter said to him, "We have left everything to follow you!" 

29"I tell you the truth," Jesus replied, "no one who has left home or brothers or sisters or mother or father or children or fields for me and the gospel 30will fail to receive a hundred times as much in this present age (homes, brothers, sisters, mothers, children and fields—and with them, persecutions) and in the age to come, eternal life. 31But many who are first will be last, and the last first." " end quote

The young man started already with the wrong question, "what must I do to inherit eternal life?" He couldn't do anything. 
"With man this is impossible, but not with God; all things are possible with God." God has to do it.

Next read verse 29 - 30 there is no quantity of believing, there is a quality.

Now if we meet someone and his life style is that of a Christian but he is attending a false churchs then we should discipline him with brotherly love, as in pointing out the false teachings of the church. We should take care of the lost sheep!!!

Next is; when is someone "ready" to become a (professing)(partake lord supper) member of your/the church. This will be in your church order. But I think the important thing is that the person understands what it means to be a member of your/the church. This is why churches have catechism classes and preprofession classes.
I think it is the duty of a christian to seek a truth believing church, but in the end GODS WILL BE DONE. we can not say he or she is not saved, he/she might show that he/she is not saved. Let us as saved show them what this means end tell them that it is there duty, there purpose to give honor to GOD.


Feunekes


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## TaylorOtwell

What about our confessions and catechisms? *

Heidelberg Catechism*

*Question 21.* What is true faith?
*Answer:* True faith is not only a certain knowledge, whereby I hold for truth all that God has revealed to us in his word, but also an assured confidence, which the Holy Ghost works by the gospel in my heart; that not only to others, but to me also, remission of sin, everlasting righteousness and salvation, are freely given by God, merely of grace, only for the sake of Christ's merits.\

If we're saved _sola gratia, sola fide_, it seems this definition of true faith would be helpful. Of course, the catechism goes on to the list the articles of the Apostle's Creed has the things that a Christian must surely believe.


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## DonP

Is that just faith or saving faith? 

Question 32: How is the grace of God manifested in the second covenant?

Answer: The grace of God is manifested in the second covenant, in that he freely provides and offers to sinners a Mediator, and life and salvation by him; and requiring faith as the condition to interest them in him, promises and gives his Holy Spirit to all his elect, to work in them that faith, with all other saving graces; and to enable them unto all holy obedience, as the evidence of the truth of their faith and thankfulness to God, and as the way which he has appointed them to salvation.

Question 72: What is justifying faith?

Answer: Justifying faith is a saving grace, wrought in the heart of a sinner by the Spirit and Word of God, whereby he, being convinced of his sin and misery, and of the disability in himself and all other creatures to recover him out of his lost condition, *not only assents to the truth of the promise of the gospel, but receives and rests upon Christ and his righteousness, therein held forth, for pardon of sin, and for the accepting and accounting of his person righteous in the sight of God for salvation.*

Seems this would be what we would have to know.

Question 73: How does faith justify a sinner in the sight of God?

Answer: Faith justifies a sinner in the sight of God, not because of those other graces which do always accompany it, or of good works that are the fruits of it, nor as if the grace of faith, or any act thereof, were imputed to him for his justification; but only as it is an instrument by which he receives and applies Christ and his righteousness.


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## DonP

What about this? Do you have to know this?

CHAPTER XV.
Of Repentance Unto Life.

I. Repentance unto life is an evangelical grace, the doctrine whereof is to be preached by every minister of the gospel, as well as that of faith in Christ.

II. By it a sinner, *out of the sight and sense, not only of the danger, but also of the filthiness and odiousness of his sins, as contrary to the holy nature and righteous law of God, and upon the apprehension of his mercy in Christ to such as are penitent, so grieves for, and hates his sins, as to turn from them all unto God, purposing and endeavoring to walk with him in all the ways of his commandments.
*
III. Although repentance be not to be rested in as any satisfaction for sin, or any cause of the pardon thereof, which is the act of God's free grace in Christ; yet is it of such necessity to all sinners, that none may expect pardon without it.

IV. As there is no sin so small but it deserves damnation; so there is no sin so great that it can bring damnation upon those who truly repent.

V. Men ought *not to content themselves with a general repentance, but it is every man's duty to endeavor to repent of his particular sins*, particularly.

VI. As every man is bound to make private confession of his sins to God, praying for the pardon thereof, upon which, *and the forsaking of them, he shall find mercy:* so he that scandalizeth his brother, or the Church of Christ, ought to be willing, by a private or public confession and sorrow for his sin, to declare his repentance to those that are offended; who are thereupon to be reconciled to him, and in love to receive him.


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## ZackF

Michael Doyle said:


> The Apostles Creed is really the truly fundamental statement to that end as well.
> 
> 
> 
> I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
> the Maker of heaven and earth,
> and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
> 
> Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
> born of the virgin Mary,
> suffered under Pontius Pilate,
> was crucified, dead, and buried;
> 
> He descended into hell. [See Calvin]
> 
> The third day He arose again from the dead;
> 
> He ascended into heaven,
> and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
> from thence he shall come to judge the quick and the dead.
> 
> I believe in the Holy Ghost;
> the holy catholic church;
> the communion of saints;
> the forgiveness of sins;
> the resurrection of the body;
> and the life everlasting.
> 
> Amen.
Click to expand...


I used to say the AC at the beginning of every Rosary. All Roman Catholics do. How does this advance the conversation with a RC or EO?


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## Solus Christus

As many have already said it, the best way has been seeing the "fruit" produced in the life of said believer. I certainly don't believe there's a specific list one must subscribe, since simply put, all growth and knowledge is provided by the Holy Spirit. And for whatever reason, the elect grow and develop at different rates. In the same sense, not all Christians when they are called home will possess the same amount of knowledge. 

But I like how Spurgeon reportedly put it.



> If God would have painted a yellow stripe on the backs of the elect I would go around lifting shirts. But since He didn’t I must preach "whosoever will" and when "whosoever" believes I know he is one of the elect.


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## DonP

To have a credible profession of faith must you know 

The law, what you have repented of and what you are turning to?


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## ZackF

Hamalas said:


> So what exactly is the bare minimum that someone must believe to be saved? I am coming more into contact with groups like the Eastern Orthodox and Catholic traditions whose churches teach much false doctrine. But what about the individuals? I think most of us would say that there are individuals who are Christians even though they are in the apostate Catholic church, but how do we determine this? What key doctrines are absolutely non-negotiable? Please provide specific Scripture references if you can!



I should have been more nuanced in my response above. *Sufficiency is the key.* 

The issue with many EO/RC is _believing_ the Gospel rather than _doing_ the Gospel. The Apostle's Creed _is _the Gospel! Most catechized Roman Catholics have knowledge of the facts of the Gospel. What they don't believe is the sufficiency of the life, death and resurrection of Jesus applied by the Holy Spirit through faith in Jesus Christ alone. RC teaching (and Orthodox) is an admixture of "graceful" works. 

A trained Roman Catholic will balk, rightly so, at an accusation of works righteousness. So don't accuse them of believing in "earning their way to heaven." This might fly with a bone ignorant Roman Catholic but not one with much of a knowledge of his faith. Tridentine teaching excludes Pelagianism (and many forms of Semi-Pelagian) as a viable belief for Catholics. A knowledgeable Roman Catholic in good standing will believe that from beginning to end all of the works necessary to salvation were initiated, sustained and completed by God's grace.

Our impatient society pressures us to twitter and elide every godly concept down to a crass slogan. Slogans are useful but we need to be careful. Justification is by grace through faith. If we are not careful we turn faith into a work.

Stress the external nature of the Gospel. The Gospel is not what we have done with God's help. We do nothing. It took me literally years to come to terms with this. In fact before I finally embraced the truth of salvation, I got to a stage where I wished it were true. As wretches we want to crow bar our way in to the solution no matter how wonderful the Gospel sounds. It is something we continue to struggle with. This is where Roman Catholicism is such a delusion. Our grace wrought works are every bit as damnable as the works done outside of God's help. Sin taints the works of believers as well as non-believers. I spent thirty minutes trying to explain this to a Roman Catholic New Testament professor a couple of years ago. I think I got through to him what I was trying to say. It is up to the Holy Spirit to make him believe it though.


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