# Christian counseling?



## moselle (Nov 24, 2008)

My mother was telling me about the class she has been taking at her church to become a counselor. At first I thought it sounded like a great thing for her, but then she started telling me about their "method" or philosophy. Basically, their thing is to assume that all the problems we have in dealing with life stem from events or issues in our childhood. We then make conscious or unconscious "vows" to ourselves such as: "I'll never yell at MY kids like that", or "I'll be a success even though I wasn't born the boy my father wanted". Then when you discover the vow you've made, you pray that God will help you forgive that person and then you are healed.

The forgiveness aspect is important, and I can see that there may be some issues from earlier in life that need to be dealt with, but my initial thought is that our problems stem from sin in our hearts. If the Holy Spirit can show us our sin, whether it's fear or selfishness or pride or anger or whatever, we can cling to the cross of Christ who is our only hope for salvation and healing.

Am I way off base? Is there a name for this kind of counseling that she's being trained in? She seemed to want me to confess that I lose my temper at my kids sometimes because I made a vow when she yelled at me when I was little. Honestly, I lose my temper sometimes because I'm selfish and impatient and lack humility.


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## Staphlobob (Nov 24, 2008)

No, you're not off base. In fact, your perspective is biblical and true. Chances are your mother is being taught a mishmash of secular methods; a syncritism of nonsense from Jung, Rogers, Freud, CPE, etc. As someone once noted, we are literally awash in counseling methods and we're more insecure, frightened, neurotic and psychotic than ever before. Secular methods don't cure people, but usually serve to make them worse.

For instance, the 28-day rehabilitation program, which relies heavily upon secular methods, is NOT designed to get people off of drugs and alcohol. Rather it merely gets them through withdrawal, allows the program to make a profit through prescriptions, and practically guarantees the "client" will relapse and so have to return. 

As a biblical counselor, I abhor and avoid such nonsense relying only upon the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Of course I am viewed as something of a monster with 3 heads and 6 eyes. But the Word is the only God-approved method. (And best of all, unlike the secular scattershot approach, the Word works.) 

Instead of imbibing this gruel of nonsense, I would suggest you and your mother read and study Jay Adams and, if possible, use the nouthetic counseling method.


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## Ivan (Nov 24, 2008)

I'm in 100% agreement with, Kevin.


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## Marrow Man (Nov 24, 2008)




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## Grymir (Nov 24, 2008)

Marrow Man said:


>




Mega - 's


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## vkochetta (Nov 25, 2008)

Staphlobob said:


> As a biblical counselor, I abhor and avoid such nonsense relying only upon the Word of God (2 Timothy 3:16-17). Of course I am viewed as something of a monster with 3 heads and 6 eyes. But the Word is the only God-approved method. (And best of all, unlike the secular scattershot approach, the Word works.)
> 
> Instead of imbibing this gruel of nonsense, I would suggest you and your mother read and study Jay Adams and, if possible, use the nouthetic counseling method.



I agree, as many here have. Jay Adams is key, but you could also include works by the Tripps, Ed Welch, Lou Priolo, David Powlison and Wayne Mack as having a good biblical emphasis.

--- Vinny Kochetta


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## Staphlobob (Nov 25, 2008)

vkochetta said:


> Staphlobob said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, as many here have. Jay Adams is key, but you could also include works by the Tripps, Ed Welch, Lou Priolo, David Powlison and Wayne Mack as having a good biblical emphasis.
> ...


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## Honor (Nov 25, 2008)

My hubby and I are currently going through the nouthetic counseling class at our church and it is life changing.... I would have her look into to that...Jay Adams is wonderful.


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## Gloria (Nov 25, 2008)

vkochetta said:


> I agree, as many here have. Jay Adams is key, but you could also include works by the Tripps, Ed Welch, Lou Priolo, David Powlison and Wayne Mack as having a good biblical emphasis.
> 
> --- Vinny Kochetta



 but HEY VINNIE! LOL...

Back on subject, I totally agree that reading Jay Adams is a good idea. I know that _Biblical View of Self-Esteem, Self-Love, and Self-Image _ is an easy read that tackles not only the biblical view of each, but also how wordly psychology/psychotherapy methods have seeped into Christian counseling.


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## moselle (Nov 25, 2008)

Wow, I've just read a bit of Adams and a couple articles by David Powlison that I found online. Very informative. And a bit radical if it weren't for the fact that they simply seem to take the Gospel and scripture at it's word. I guess in modern America, that IS radical. 

I will see if an opportunity presents itself to email an article or two to mom - if I can maneuver around the "powdered-behind" syndrome .


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## Backwoods Presbyterian (Nov 25, 2008)

One of many reasons why I look forward to with great excitement to the Nouthetic Counseling class I am taking at RPTS this term from Dr. George Scipione.


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## moselle (Nov 25, 2008)

I'll just add a quick related story - a friend of mine from church - "Michelle", got a call from a neighbor friend who had very recently lost a baby in her 8th month of pregnancy. The friend was getting "counseling" from her church in which she was told to "get a grip and get over it"  (I just can't even imagine). Needless to say, the friend said she was feeling very depressed and suicidal. Well, a few days later the friend told "Michelle" that instead of trying to "buck up" as told, through the course of every day, she would write down whatever she was feeling, and then would immediately go to Scripture to find what God had to say to her about it. She was beginning to recover and her faith is slowly being restored. So simple, but truly reminds me that the Holy Spirit teaches us the Gospel through the Word of God, and it will not return void.


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## vkochetta (Nov 25, 2008)

Staphlobob said:


> Not familiar with Tripps, but the rest are excellent. Welch and Mack are especially good.
> 
> Let's just make sure we don't recommend people like Crabb and Brennan. Popular tripe, but still tripe.



Paul Tripp wrote Age of Opportunity, How People Change and Instruments in the Redeemer's Hands... among others.

Tedd Tripp wrote Shepherding a Child's Heart and other books.

I forgot to mention, if you like Moldy Oldies, Richard Baxter's Christian Directory. 

--- Vinny Kochetta


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## Marrow Man (Nov 25, 2008)

Backwoods Presbyterian said:


> One of many reasons why I look forward to with great excitement to the Nouthetic Counseling class I am taking at RPTS this term from Dr. George Scipione.



Before I received a call and moved to Mississippi, I had the privilege of studying under Dr. Adams, et al, in Spartanburg, SC, at the Redeemer ARP Church. On one occasion, we had Dr. Scipione as a guest lecturer.

For those interested, there is a distance version of the Redeemer program that is offered as well. You read more about both programs by going here: The Institute for Nouthetic Studies


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## he beholds (Nov 25, 2008)

Elyse Fitzpatrick is also a Nouthetic Counselor, focused on issues that women face. I have heard her speak and thought everything she said was spot on. You might buy your mom one of her books.


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## Marrow Man (Nov 26, 2008)

he beholds said:


> Elyse Fitzpatrick is also a Nouthetic Counselor, focused on issues that women face. I have heard her speak and thought everything she said was spot on. You might buy your mom one of her books.



Time Texts is a good resource for purchasing such books on Christian counseling.


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## christiana (Nov 26, 2008)

In discussing counseling concerns with a counselor friend I was told this:
' I'm thinking that one of the best for someone to park in first is Kris Lundgarrd's book! NANC teaches us that at the foundation of all counseling is your theology. If your theology is off track - no method - not even Jay Adams' will set you right. Lundgaard does such a wonderful job at discussing the root of all counseling problems!!!'

I've heard so much about this book that I must get it soon myself!!(The Enemy Within)


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## Prufrock (Nov 26, 2008)

Forgive my ignorance: Nouthetic?


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## christiana (Nov 26, 2008)

The Institute for Nouthetic Studies

As in biblical counseling.


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## moselle (Nov 26, 2008)

christiana said:


> In discussing counseling concerns with a counselor friend I was told this:
> ' I'm thinking that one of the best for someone to park in first is Kris Lundgarrd's book! NANC teaches us that at the foundation of all counseling is your theology. If your theology is off track - no method - not even Jay Adams' will set you right. Lundgaard does such a wonderful job at discussing the root of all counseling problems!!!'
> 
> I've heard so much about this book that I must get it soon myself!!(The Enemy Within)



Through the Looking Glass looks like a good one, too. I'm beginning to see how imperative it is to have a solid understanding of Biblical doctrine - and this is an area where dear mom is fairly weak - she is a big fan of Joyce Meyers . On the other hand, she seems very receptive when I talk about issues from a reformed perspective, while being careful to avoid those "flowery" words from the dark side .


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## Stephen L Smith (Nov 28, 2008)

I would like to add a response re the comments made by Jay Adams.

Dr Adams has made some significant contributions to the field of Biblical Counselling.
However, I think he has gone overboard in reacting to the issue of Mental illness. For a response to Adams see "Healing and the Scriptures" by the respected Dr Martyn Lloyd Jones. Lloyd Jones calls Jay Adams a 'populariser'. The Puritans were more open to the area of mental illness than Adams. Some feel that Adams has rightly seen the problems with modern psychology and thrown the baby out with the Baptistry water. (I am a baptist) 

For example, I suffer from Aspergers. My experience with Nouthetic counselling is they tend to take a simplistic approach to autistic disorders and look at all this as a spiritual thing. People with Aspergers have some specific difficulties - the Bible has a key role in guidance here, but sensitivity to the uniqueness of the illness is also important. 

It is also worth noting that counsellors like Ed Welch, David Powlson, Tripp and others connected to the Christian Counselling and Education Foundation are more sympathetic to psychology than Adams - there is a spectrum of thought even amound the conservative counsellors, and this is healthy.


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## cih1355 (Nov 28, 2008)

> Basically, their thing is to assume that all the problems we have in dealing with life stem from events or issues in our childhood. We then make conscious or unconscious "vows" to ourselves such as: "I'll never yell at MY kids like that", or "I'll be a success even though I wasn't born the boy my father wanted". Then when you discover the vow you've made, you pray that God will help you forgive that person and then you are healed.



Not all of the problems we have in life stem from events or issues in our childhood. I have struggled with certain sins before and those sins had nothing to do with any issues in my childhood. 

Our problems stem from sin in our hearts. We are born with a sinful nature.
-----Added 11/28/2008 at 12:47:24 EST-----


Staphlobob said:


> No, you're not off base. In fact, your perspective is biblical and true. Chances are your mother is being taught a mishmash of secular methods; a syncritism of nonsense from Jung, Rogers, Freud, CPE, etc. As someone once noted, we are literally awash in counseling methods and we're more insecure, frightened, neurotic and psychotic than ever before. Secular methods don't cure people, but usually serve to make them worse.
> 
> For instance, the 28-day rehabilitation program, which relies heavily upon secular methods, is NOT designed to get people off of drugs and alcohol. Rather it merely gets them through withdrawal, allows the program to make a profit through prescriptions, and practically guarantees the "client" will relapse and so have to return.
> 
> ...



The secular methods of counseling assume a false view of human nature. If one's view of human nature is false, then one's solution to man's problem is going to be wrong. For example, suppose a secular counselor believes that man is just a physical being, a collection of molecules. Hence, that counselor will think that our problems are only physical problems. Suppose a client comes to him for counseling and that client's problem is not a physical problem at all. Let's say he has a sin problem. That counselor will try to fix something that has nothing to do with the problem. He will be trying to fix the wrong thing.


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