# Another excellent Paul Washer Sermon



## ReformedWretch (Nov 25, 2006)

I've been blessed tremendously by this.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=5220621750


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 25, 2006)

Just thought I'd add that I took four pages of notes while listening to it! (lol)


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## kvanlaan (Nov 25, 2006)

I just love this guy. Seems odd to cozy up to hellfire and brimstone, but he sure tells it like it is!


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 25, 2006)

> Seems odd to cozy up to hellfire and brimstone



I must be odd then (lol) because I've always, always, always been drawn to this kind of preaching. The preacher who stand up and tell me that I need to focus more and more and more on Christ, to stop thinking about worldly things, to always remember that I offend God every day and I had better be sorry for that, etc. I just love it. That kind of preaching draws me to scripture and gets me to turn off the TV!

Someone asked in an older thread "who would want to sit under this kind of preaching ever week?" I would sit under this kind of preaching every day!


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 25, 2006)

Well, I was hoping to get some conversation on this, and I still may, but until then I guess I'll just add to it here or there. 

One of the things Paul says in this sermon is that we should desire to read, study, and discuss God's word with other believers. That it should be our number one passion and want.

I agree, but here's my problem with that. I can find few others with this desire! I am sure there are some in mu church who have it, but they have children and famalies that demand much of their attention. Understand I am not saying their famalies should take a back seat to them going out with me to study and pray, but it still presents a problem for me.

My pastor is a great man, but he has pastoral duties to tend do as well as four small children as well. My wife and I are 36, so 99.9% of our friends have numerous small children as well and the .1% that do not are not strong Christians or are Arminian dispensationalists.

Any suggestions? I try and fulfill this passion here at the Puritan Board, but on slow days or times when my topics just aren't that popular I find myself sitting here just refreshing the board over and over getting somewhat frustrated.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 25, 2006)

Adam, it was I that posted the "who would want to listen to this every week" comment before, only because I wondered if he expanded his repertoire any or just had the same basic message - I was interested in hearing more about different verses in scripture and since that first sermon, I have heard more of what he has to say on different topics. We need more of this guy. Not just more preaching from him, we need _more_ (multiples) of him.

Elizabeth and I listened to the sermon you posted on last night and it was every bit as hard-hitting as the first one I heard. Something he said in one of his sermons has really stayed with me (well, many things have, but this is one that has been conspicuously absent from much of N American Christianity). It was the comment about giving a Bible to a man and having him preach in a town square until men were brought to Christ or the man preaching was beaten to death. How many senior pastors can you see doing that? Associate pastors? Youth pastors? (_Maybe_ a youth pastor...) But we seem to "need" a very sterile (or even luxurious) setting to do our work, for the most part.

PS - I know what you mean about the frustration, of refreshing again and again and seeing nothing. When I'm up, the majority of the folks on the board are either just getting up, getting ready for bed, or, most of all, are still sleeping. It's just Trevor, Rich, the Australians, and the few of us in China.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 25, 2006)

> the comment about giving a Bible to a man and having him preach in a town square until men were brought to Christ or the man preaching was beaten to death.



Gave me goose bumps!



> How many senior pastors can you see doing that? Associate pastors? Youth pastors? (Maybe a youth pastor...) But we seem to "need" a very sterile (or even luxurious) setting to do our work, for the most part.



Sadly I have to agree. I also agree about the possibility being stronger with a youth pastor, but why is that? I am not sure I just feel it's more likely! There may be an answer to more questions in there somewhere.

I will sadly also admit that some of these concerns apply to me as well. I love my job and don't push the gospel as strongly as I could at times in fear of alienating others. God forgive me.



> PS - I know what you mean about the frustration, of refreshing again and again and seeing nothing. When I'm up, the majority of the folks on the board are either just getting up, getting ready for bed, or, most of all, are still sleeping. It's just Trevor, Rich, the Australians, and the few of us in China.



I often don't go to bed until 1 or 2am EST


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## Pilgrim (Nov 25, 2006)

Washer is the kind of preacher who will provoke a strong reaction one way or the other.


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## ChristopherPaul (Nov 25, 2006)

Pilgrim said:


> Washer is the kind of preacher who will provoke a strong reaction one way or the other.




He is baptist too. For some reason the Baptists churn out better preachers than the Presbyterians.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 25, 2006)

ChristopherPaul said:


> He is baptist too. For some reason the Baptists churn out better preachers than the Presbyterians.



I agree that there are many good Baptist preachers, but I wouldn't say they are invariably better than the Presbyterians.


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## Augusta (Nov 25, 2006)

Thanks Adam for recommending that sermon. I just finished it and it was great. Can you just imagine a debate between Paul Washer and Joel Osteen! He just devastates modern American churchianity. I really liked how he used 1 John as tests to see if you are in the faith.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 25, 2006)

Yep, I know will do the same. It's an excellent way to present 1st John!


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 26, 2006)

Pilgrim said:


> Washer is the kind of preacher who will provoke a strong reaction one way or the other.



What do you think of him? What does he "provoke" in you?

Just wondering....


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## kvanlaan (Nov 26, 2006)

What I notice about him is this: After I sit and listen to one of his sermons, I get up, look around, and see my surroundings in a rather unattractive hue. It's like seeing someone caught in an affair that realizes what they've done is so very wrong; the other party in the scandal is not so beautiful under the penetrating light of reality, the ugliness shows through, as does the betrayal one has done upon their spouse. It never stands up under scrutiny and yet we think we can do it to the Creator of the Universe. He sounds like Jonathan Edwards Redux.

Paul Washer vs. Joel Osteen - my money is on a Scriptural K.O. in 12 seconds or less. Anyone want some of that action?

As for the Pres. vs. Baptist preachers, I know several Dominees (Reformed ministers of the Dutch tradition) that are like theological jedis and live it. The Baptists do tend to get more animated, I'll give you that.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 26, 2006)

Wow, excellent Kevin! Great way to explain how you feel after one of his sermons.


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## Augusta (Nov 26, 2006)

kvanlaan said:


> What I notice about him is this: After I sit and listen to one of his sermons, I get up, look around, and see my surroundings in a rather unattractive hue. It's like seeing someone caught in an affair that realizes what they've done is so very wrong; the other party in the scandal is not so beautiful under the penetrating light of reality, the ugliness shows through, as does the betrayal one has done upon their spouse. It never stands up under scrutiny and yet we think we can do it to the Creator of the Universe. He sounds like Jonathan Edwards Redux.
> 
> Paul Washer vs. Joel Osteen - my money is on a Scriptural K.O. in 12 seconds or less. Anyone want some of that action?
> 
> As for the Pres. vs. Baptist preachers, I know several Dominees (Reformed ministers of the Dutch tradition) that are like theological jedis and live it. The Baptists do tend to get more animated, I'll give you that.



I love your analogy it is spot on. I am struggling lately with everything seeming so worthless and silly. I want to drop everything and live like a monk but I know that that is not right either. We are supposed to be salt and light but how do you balance that with the knowledge that everything is going to burn. I know intellectually that we balance it by doing all to the glory of God but I am having trouble putting that knowledge into shoe leather and walking it out. 

Theological Jedis...


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## kvanlaan (Nov 26, 2006)

But see, that's what I love about the biblical foundation I grew up with; the whole Calvinistic approach that lays out life as God's story for your meager existence, that He spent time on getting your bit of the picture just as He wanted it. One of 6 billion that He's done this generation alone. He even gave us a manual, and it has everything in it. Not that everything will be easy, but it is His will that you are trying to follow (the whole trying-to-keep-up-with-Dad's-footsteps bit.) And the world will hate you for it. But so long as you go down swinging while fighting the good fight, you've visibly tried to put your feet in His footsteps. I fear for those who believe in the whole "why would God want me to be unhappy/burdened/inconvenienced?" approach. Paul Washer would put them on their derrieres in 12 seconds or less, sure, but God's wrath will put them in hell in a twinkle of an eye for eternity.

As for the theological jedi comment, it really is how they made me feel. Most of the ones I knew in high school were trained either in conservative seminaries in the Netherlands or during Calvin College's glory days. When there was an argument to be made/settled, they had a thorough knowledge of all of Scripture in English or Dutch, the Heidelburg Catechism, Belgic Confession, and Canons of Dordt, and an uncanny knowledge of the Hebrew and Greek roots of just about anything. And always cool as a cucumber. These were the sorts of guys you could look up to.


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## Herald (Nov 26, 2006)

Adam - I like Washer. He is going to get a bad rap real quick (if he doesn't have one already). His message is sorely needed in our day and age.


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## Pilgrim (Nov 26, 2006)

houseparent said:


> What do you think of him? What does he "provoke" in you?
> 
> Just wondering....



Someone at a Bible camp gave me some CD's with several of his sermons a few years ago. I thought the messages were pretty good, especially as an antidote to what is normally heard in the average evangelical church. He was supposed to preach at that camp several years ago but was providentially hindered. 

What I meant is that he no doubt angers and offends some who are not used to such plain speaking.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 26, 2006)

Oh he apparently angers many. He's been told he's not welcome back at several different places he's spoken at.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 27, 2006)

So if he's scripturally sound in his preaching but is rejected by those he is preaching for (and sometimes to), what does that tell us?

Where is his problem? For those who don't like him, I would like to know where exactly they fault him? Chapter and verse, if you please...

Also, I think that the reason a youth pastor can get away with more radical speech is that it will be considered an error of youth if he really messes up and he's got less to lose than someone who is a 'tenured' pastor. What this points towards though, sadly enough, is that many treat their occupation in the church body as a secular position in some respects, and embody many of the occupational politics that go along with holding and keeping a 9 to 5 job. I don't mean this as a blanket statement, but it is true many times.

While I love to listen to this guy, his statement about preaching until men come to God or until the preacher is beaten to death may be a foreshadowing of his own end as well; few love to hear the sins they love to act...

Personally, I think that if that was to be his end, he'd go smiling.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 27, 2006)

> Where is his problem? For those who don't like him, I would like to know where exactly they fault him? Chapter and verse, if you please...



I would like to hear the same!

Honestly, I just wish his sermons would get more attention here. I know the original post about him got a lot of attention, but why not now? Here we have a reformed (D.o.G.) preacher telling like it is in a time where that's desperately needed and yet he gets little attention.

...Maybe if he spoke about Baptism?


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## kvanlaan (Nov 27, 2006)

Baptism! Beware ye the long knives of thine own brethren...

Wow Adam, you do stay up late.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 27, 2006)

Yes, I'm crazy staying up tonight as I have to be up at 6:30am!

5 more hours.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 27, 2006)

Brother, I hope this finds you rested and refreshed this morning...


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 27, 2006)

Thanks!

I'm feeling pretty good even after only 4 hours of sleep. Of course I'm coming off a 9 day break from work where I slept at least 8-9 hour every night of that break so I am sure that helps.

Thanks! Now, where's that next Washer sermon?


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Nov 27, 2006)

I half-way love his preaching but also half-way despise it, because it is so focused, more often than not, on navel-gazing and morbid introspection. If I did all he said we should do to "make sure" I'm saved, I'd feel like **** all the time... because I wouldn't be looking at Christ, but myself.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 27, 2006)

Hmmmmm

good point, but the introspection doesn't bother me because I don't do it nearly enough.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 27, 2006)

Gabe, I can see your point but like Adam said, I think this is a backlash against our straying ways. I really don't think he preaches like that in the mission field, I think he does it in the US because it is so deeply needed.

The other thing is, we hear a lot of "don't major on the minors" from the pulpit (usually attached to a "legalism stinks, Calvinists" sermon). And that's fine. BUT we should at least minor on the minors, and most of us don't.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 27, 2006)

That preaching style and message is definately used only here in the U.S. Paul claims most U.S. Christians would be excommunicated from the churches he visits in other countries.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 27, 2006)

kvanlaan said:


> Gabe, I can see your point but like Adam said, I think this is a backlash against our straying ways. I really don't think he preaches like that in the mission field, I think he does it in the US because it is so deeply needed.
> 
> The other thing is, we hear a lot of "don't major on the minors" from the pulpit (usually attached to a "legalism stinks, Calvinists" sermon). And that's fine. BUT we should at least minor on the minors, and most of us don't.



I haven't had a chance to finish listening to the first sermon. Here is where I agree with Gabe so far:

The message is true - American Christians are decadent and self-centered and are full of confidence in a mostly false Gospel. Their lives bear no evidence of a transformed life with Churches full of dead men and pastors who preach to itching ears. His message is a prophetic call of condemnation to a generation that is asleep and needs a reminder of the sobering truth of the Gospel of Christ.

Where I see the strength of his call is the underlining of the LAW - you are condemned! You need to flee from the wrath to come.

Where I see the deficiency is this: he really does not offer Gospel. His constant call is "You need fruit!"

True, again, as far as it goes but how does a man produce fruit if he is a thorn bush? He seems to be implying that they need to generate that which is generated from a _re_-generated heart.

He should be calling them to belief in the true Gospel that transforms and produces fruit. He's leaving them halfway there. It is my estimation that fruit is not present in most Southern Baptists BECAUSE the Gospel is mixed with pietism: Don't do this or Do this to become a better Christian. What is not lifted up regularly are the demands of the Law (as he does) along with the regular remedy (Christ our righteousness in Word and Sacrament).

I can probably imagine some kids were really convicted by the sermon and I am too. It reminds me of how far I fall short but these are the things that I regularly reflect upon because I'm constantly aware of my failings. I am prone to self-examination to the point of thinking that I'm ultimately saved by my sincerity of belief and "do I really have enough fruit or am I deceiving myself."

I think a sermon like that is useful to wake up deceived and self-righteous people who think that God is playing games with salvation and isn't really serious about wrath. American Christians need to hear a message of God's Holiness and be terrified so they can really appreciate the glory of the Gospel.

But, again, his message is Law. It doesn't really provide the full remedy and full Gospel. He leaves the _actual_ Christian with the idea that you need to look to yourself ultimately to make sure you are bearing fruit or you will be cast aside.

To me, the fact that he is Baptist and has a poor view of the benefit of the Sacraments makes his complete Gospel message somewhat defective.

I don't mean to sound negative as it is very edifying but it's just missing something. Read the book of Hebrews to see how a "pastoral" presentation of God's wrath is followed up by the assurance of the belief of better things for God's elect. We need to be scared but then we need to be reminded of the means of Grace that God uses to uphold us lest we focus on upholding ourselves.


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## BJClark (Nov 27, 2006)

I guess one of the things that bothers me about him, and I don't know that it should, but it does...is that he calls himself a prophet.

His message is spot on, and we are called to examine ourselves in Scripture,
and we need to do that more often, comparing ourselves to Christ and not everyone else. 

I find the more I examine and compare myself to Christ, the more I realize even more just how sinful I really am before a Just and Holy God, and I become even more thankful and appreciative for Christ's death and resurrection. 

And then looking at the things God has shown me thus far about myself and trying to grasp more fully that God chose to save me before the foundation of the earth. 

There are no words in the English language to describe how that makes me feel inside, especially knowing, that God still hasn't shown me all the sinful things within my heart that HE knows are there, and knowing He chooses to over look those things and ONLY see the shed blood of His Son that covers it.

Amazing Grace just doesn't seem to cover it very well.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 28, 2006)

Rich, just a comment on: "He leaves the _actual_ Christian with the idea that you need to look to yourself ultimately to make sure you are bearing fruit or you will be cast aside."

Don't you think that the _actual_ Christian would be content and confident in his faith upon hearing this message? If he is not, might it not be an issue of a personal lack of reliance on the gospel in his or her own life? Being Christians, we already have the gospel, we would not claim ourselves believers otherwise, but many have misused it. Though I am undoubtedly wretched and sinful, I have full assurance in the gospel. I take his message more as "_live_ what you claim to believe" not because of the fruit issue but because I am betting my eternal soul and the souls of my wife and children on being saved _sola fide_. That's one heck of a motivator to be grounded in the Word. This may be a case where Washer is "majoring on the minors" simply _because_ so few of us hear the minors that he could preach 10 lifetimes and still not reach all those who need to hear that particular message. 

I think that is also why I take his message to heart so completely. It is out of gratitude for His blood that we follow His commandments, no other reason. That I betray that gratitude for the sake of my convenience or for the sake of the world's opinion is, to me, unthinkable in retrospect and makes me ill.

I would have to agree that from what I've heard so far, he may not be a 360-degree preacher (per sermon), but he's at least a 270-degree guy, and he has a message which needs to be heard. He also has series on biblical assurance, faith, and true gospel, etc. I think these few particular sermons are usually taken as embodying his whole message because they're the most shocking. That being said, I haven't listened to his whole portfolio of sermons but I find it hard to believe that he preaches anything but gospel out in the jungle.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 28, 2006)

Bobbi, one thing about the 'prophet' issue: I know a gentleman who is one of the most devout men I have ever met (and reformed to the teeth). He is a model father, and his children are a testimony to his devotion to the Lord. He feels called to speak as a prophet. He feels called to speak as God leads him BUT he fears the world of men and what following God's will for his life would do to his family. To see a giant of faith (and _he_ is indeed one of the modern pilgrims) held back in this manner is heartbreaking but I see nothing wrong in his use of the word. Does it mean that he truly sees himself as a pipeline for God's words (new revelations and the like)? No, not at all. It is to preach the same Bible as everyone else but to perhaps focus on a particular message, to concentrate where God would have him, to serve as a member of the body of Christ in a unique capacity. I would tend to think that Washer is called in a similar way. I do think that Rich had a point with him rounding out his sermons instead of leaving folks hanging but he is, I think, serving his purpose.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 28, 2006)

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here but I'm really concerned about Washer's overarching theology. It sounded very revivalistic to me in the final analysis and I wonder if his "old theology" here is a form of Wesleyan perfectionism. I heard a great presentation of the Law as condemning men in their sins but this was essentially the bottom line:

"You want to know how to honor your parents, read the Word and obey it...want to learn how to honor God, read the Word and obey it. Do you want to know if you really believed in God - you'll know by whether you continue in these things." Where was the finished work of Christ? Where was the imputation of his righteousness? Did He die so that we could believe in Him and prove that we believe in Him by behaving perfectly?

While I do not deny the transforming work of a regenerate heart, I again see a disturbing presentation of self-examination that is easily construed as perfectionism.

The Law is not the Gospel - it condemns men in their sins but gives them no power to obey it.

I heard Law pronounced loud and clear. I heard the Gospel turned into the Law - "When you really obey then you've believed."

I think we are so used to the horrible Gospel messages of flattering words from preachers that it's easy to miss Washer as tacking in the opposite direction. His criticism of Christian decadence is laudatory but then he misses the true Gospel solution. I want to commend him for presenting the Holiness of God in all its terrible fearfulness. I also believe Christians should have his zeal. I just feel that he does not fully present the _solution_.


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## kvanlaan (Nov 28, 2006)

Rich, I'd love to argue that point but at this time, I really can't. I have to look at more of his stuff and see if there is a more rounded approach in other sermons. 

You've got a point regarding these two sermons that I just can't rebut effectively; he does give the idea that if you don't obey, you don't believe. I do believe there's a deeper, less Pharasetical ideal in there, but I can see it being a little tough to discern. And I think that part of the message is that we _have_ the solution, we need only see it for what it is. If we did not have the Gospel, we wouldn't be sitting there in the first place. But we don't see it in its fullness (though I can see the perspective that he is not presenting it in its fullness either.)


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## BJClark (Nov 28, 2006)

SemperFideles;




> I don't want to rain on anyone's parade here but I'm really concerned about Washer's overarching theology.



Not raining on my parade  

I know whom I have believed in...


There are unfortunately, many pastors who do the same...fall short of teaching the Gospel.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 28, 2006)

> I think that part of the message is that we have the solution, we need only see it for what it is. If we did not have the Gospel, we wouldn't be sitting there in the first place. But we don't see it in its fullness



I think that pretty much nails it.


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## Cheshire Cat (Nov 28, 2006)

These two most popular sermons are directed toward Christians. In the first sermon he does send an "invitation" to people who want to be Christians, then he will give them the gospel one-on-one it seems. 

As you can see here http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...urrSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Paul^Washer

his most recent sermons on sermonaudio.com are No Greater Truth (than the Gospel) part 1 and part 2. 

I think it is nothing other than a hasty generalization to conclude that all of his sermons have the same emphasis based on two popular sermons directed at *already* professing Christians in America.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 28, 2006)

Great points Caleb!


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 28, 2006)

caleb_woodrow said:


> These two most popular sermons are directed toward Christians. In the first sermon he does send an "invitation" to people who want to be Christians, then he will give them the gospel one-on-one it seems.
> 
> As you can see here http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.a...urrSection=sermonsspeaker&Keyword=Paul^Washer
> 
> ...


No, Paul Washer even assumes that he is speaking to mostly non-converted people that _presume_ they are Christians while he states repeatedly that he believes a vast majority of them are likely going to hell. I would agree with him on the state of Evangelicalism.

Further, a minister of the Gospel is _never_ supposed to make people "read between the lines" as to what the message of the Gospel is. Yes it is "...flee from the wrath to come..." but it is also "...rest in Christ...." What folks are doing here is "filling in the blanks" of their own understanding of the Gospel. While I might be able to hear it and search for kernels of trusting in Christ it is buried deep down with an overt sense of perfectionism. Paul never makes that mistake in his Epistles.

Third, even if you believe he is preaching to the already converted, the Gospel is not simply for unregenerate and then you preach the Law to everybody who already "...gets it." Yes the Law needs to be preached to convict of sin but the Gospel is for believers too. He's talking to kids impoverished of the Gospel. In fact, his "type" of sermon is very common in the SBC - do this, this, this, this, and this more perfectly. The twist he adds is _scaring_ them more to desire to be more committed. The message is still impotent of power because it does not hold forth Christ.

Fourth, I didn't claim he never gets the Gospel right but that presentation was reminiscent of what I said it was. It's the exact kind of thing Wesley was doing: railing against a decadent Church (good) and then calling men to perfectionism (bad). As I stated earlier, I want to be fair to the man and commend him where he is solid in terms of upholding the Holiness of God but I still believe he misses the Gospel in his remedy. I simply cannot chalk it up to "...well he might be different other times..." when he has this opportunity to present it clearly to 5000 kids and this particular sermon is floating around the Internet as an example of "...gettting the Gospel right."


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 28, 2006)

> do this, this, this, this, and this more perfectly.



But Washer speaks directly against that kind of thinking within the sermon.


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## Cheshire Cat (Nov 28, 2006)

I didn’t put *professing* in front of Christians at the beginning of my post, but I did near the end. I should have included it in the beginning as well. My point is that these 2 sermons were directed to professing Christians. 

First off, Paul Washer said repeatedly from what I remember that he thinks legalism is death and he is not promoting legalism. 

Secondly, I should have made myself more clear that he is preaching toward *professing* Christians. I can understand how my post was semi-unclear, but after this post it should be clear. 

Thirdly, I never said that the Gospel was only for the unregenerate. I emphasized that it does not have to take place in every sermon, especially one that is directed toward professing Christians. 

Fourth, like I have said before, it is a hasty generalization to conclude that all of Paul Washer sermons are set forth in the same manner as two popular ones that have been spread over the internet directed at a specific problem. 

Fifth, he did send out an invitation at the youth conference implying he would give the gospel personally to those who expressed interest or need. 

Sixth, perhaps listen to some of his other sermons on the gospel to get a better idea of how he uses it in different settings.


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## ReformedWretch (Nov 28, 2006)

I simply think that Washer has a specific role and he fills it.


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## Semper Fidelis (Nov 28, 2006)

As I said three times now Caleb, I have a problem with the presentation but never claim that all of Paul Washer's sermons are like that. As far as it went, it was presented as "Flee the wrath to come..." (good) followed by "Look to your works to see if you really believe...."

There is truth to what he says but such passages of "looking to our fruits" are always taught on a knife's edge in Scripture. They are presented with the full force of not deceiving ourselves but always followed up with the faithfulness of God to work and will in us. Romans 6 is followed by Romans 7. Romans 7 is followed by Romans 8.

I believe, firmly, that after you scare people to death with their sin (praise God) you need to remind the believer not to trust in his own strength to accomplish it. When that balance is overlooked it leads to a mixed message.

Once again, he is preaching to a group fully ensconced in "do this and you shall live". It is the Southern Baptist way of preaching. Moralism is normal. It is the devastation and ugliness of sin that is not. In that he underlines God's Holiness I reiterate that I say Amen. That he can be very easily confused as preaching more "do this and live" to a denomination full of that stuff then I think it's dangerous stuff. 

And you don't wait until after the sermon to present the Gospel to the people who "came forward".


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## Cheshire Cat (Nov 28, 2006)

SemperFideles said:


> I believe, firmly, that after you scare people to death with their sin (praise God) you need to remind the believer not to trust in his own strength to accomplish it. When that balance is overlooked it leads to a mixed message.



I agree and would further add that his message could be easily confused, especially when one is already prone to legalism. Yet, I think when the sermon is understood correctly it is all and well. Could he have done some things better? Yes, but I don't think it warrants too many criticisms.  Sorry if I set up a strawman.


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## ajrock2000 (Dec 11, 2006)

I am glad to see that others have listened to some of Paul Washer's sermons. To me, he is one of the best out there. A true "man of the grace of God", as he puts it. This is my favorite sermon of all of his so far, but they are all, nevertheless, very good. 

Self Denial & Regeneration

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?currSection=sermonsspeaker&sermonID=63006232159

His series on the true gospel is very good too, it is on his site, www.heartcrymissionary.com


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## Augusta (Dec 11, 2006)

SemperFideles said:


> As I said three times now Caleb, I have a problem with the presentation but never claim that all of Paul Washer's sermons are like that. As far as it went, it was presented as "Flee the wrath to come..." (good) followed by "Look to your works to see if you really believe...."
> 
> There is truth to what he says but such passages of "looking to our fruits" are always taught on a knife's edge in Scripture. They are presented with the full force of not deceiving ourselves but always followed up with the faithfulness of God to work and will in us. Romans 6 is followed by Romans 7. Romans 7 is followed by Romans 8.
> 
> ...



It is true Rich that we should not trust in our own strength to do it. It is also true that God gives us the strength and sanctifies us. As Rev. Washer says if you stray off the path God will come for you and put you back on the path. A new creation is no small change and Christ who begins the work will perfect it. This all Rev. Washer is saying. The modern church is full of carnal Christians who need a little fear of the Lord because they have none and it keeps them stagnant or deluded into thinking they are a Christian when they are not.


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## Augusta (Jan 9, 2007)

Here is another Paul Washer sermon that clarifies the fruit passages of the bible. It is a comforting sermon for the sinner. He teaches how we don't make ourselves bear fruit but that Christ causes us to. I think he defends himself well of the charges charged in this thread.

http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?sermonID=92106211045


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## reformedcop (Jan 9, 2007)

Paul Washer is a GREAT Preacher !! I first heard him when Way of the Master Radio airred one of his sermons on sattellite radio. Awesome stuff.


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## Chris (Jan 16, 2007)

> Well, I was hoping to get some conversation on this, and I still may, but until then I guess I'll just add to it here or there.




I'm quite the fan of his. 

He touches on a point in one of his sermons that I have only heard mentioned once before, but had long ago been quite convinced of based on observing society - lost people dersperately try to create 'heaven on earth'. Look at our government, look at the charities of hollywood celebrities.....

It's like people who reject God try to fix things themselves, and when they utterly fail, they just try harder.


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