# Apostles' Creed



## JohnV (May 31, 2004)

(I don't remember off hand if this has been discussed before. If so, please direct me to the right thread. )

Yesterday in church it struck me that some churches don't recite the Apostles' Creed. I know also that some don't read the law either; but that's another question. How many of the churches that we attend do recite the Apostles' Creed? Is there a preference for a particular time, such as near the beginning of the service, or near the end; or in the evening service rather than the morning? Are there other creeds, such as the Nicene, that are interchanged sometimes? How often is this done? What version of the Apostles' Creed is used? 

Pick any one of the above, and tell your story. Or pick them all to show us how this tradition is practiced in your church. 

I'm just curious. In our church neither is the law regularly read, nor is the Apostles' Creed recited, except sometimes in special circumstances, such as at a profession of faith. I think that my church is wrong in this, and not just excercising liberties of Order of Worship. But it is also a weakness in the OPC, I think, that this kind of diversity exists in this denomination. I'm not saying that the Apostles' Creed should be enforced, though I think it should be, but rather that it should be extraordinary for it to be omitted from regular services. 

I think the reading of the law ought to be enforced for at least one service per Lord's Day.


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## Puritan Sailor (May 31, 2004)

Being raised in pentacostal circles, I never even heard of the Apostles Creed until I joined a reformed church.


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## blhowes (May 31, 2004)

I was raised in a Methodist church where the Apostle's creed was recited every week. After I was saved, I attended primarily baptist churches where no creeds of any kind were recited. 

I visited a congregational church 6 or 7 months ago that recited portions of the Westminster confession in unison during the service. Other than that one church, I don't remember any others that recite the creeds or the confessions.

Bob


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## Ianterrell (May 31, 2004)

We used to recite the Apostle's Creed at my old Presbyterian church every sabbath morning. We don't at my Reformed Baptist church. I wish we did though.


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## turmeric (May 31, 2004)

We switch 'em around, the Apostles' one week, the Nicene next, they do the Heidleberg Confession a lot. Trying to keep it fresh, I think.


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## Bernard_Marx (Jun 1, 2004)

In our church we read the Law during the morning service after the opening song. Then in the afternoon we the Apostles Creed (a non-rhymed version) is sung after the opening song. Sometimes other creeds are read.


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## Saiph (Jun 1, 2004)

We recite a creed every Sunday before the sermon. It is in the middle of the liturgy.

We use the Apostles, Nicene, Athanasian, and sometimes St. Patrick's Breastplate.

We rotate through them using a different one every week.

Here is our liturgical format.


Preparation
Invocation
Psalm
Scripture Reading: O.T.
Hymn
Scripture Reading: Epistle &amp; Gospel
Hymn
Confession
Offering
Creed
Sermon
Hymn
Eucharist
Santus
Sursum Corda
Open Prayer
Benediction
Hymn


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## kceaster (Jun 1, 2004)

We use a rotation of the Apostle's, Nicene, and the Chalcedonian. It is right after the corporate confession of sin and pronouncement of God's pardon, and before the sermon. So, about middle of the Liturgy.

I really find meaning in these. The elder starts by saying, &quot;Brothers and Sisters, let us now confess together what it is we believe.&quot;

Good stuff.

In Christ,

KC


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## JohnV (Jun 1, 2004)

Mark:
What is 'St. Patrick's Breastplate'?

Kevin:
I like that too. It sounds like you have the reading of the law and the recitation of the Creed in the same service.

Tom:
I forgot about the singing of the Creed. There are several versions that I have heard. The one from the Psalter takes some getting used to. But it grows on you.


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## Saiph (Jun 1, 2004)

John V:


[quote:561424d947]
I bind unto myself today
The strong Name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same
The Three in One and One in Three.

I bind this today to me forever
By power of faith, Christ's incarnation;
His baptism in Jordan river,
His death on Cross for my salvation;
His bursting from the spic&egrave;d tomb,
His riding up the heavenly way,
His coming at the day of doom
I bind unto myself today.

I bind unto myself the power
Of the great love of cherubim;
The sweet 'Well done' in judgment hour,
The service of the seraphim,
Confessors' faith, Apostles' word,
The Patriarchs' prayers, the prophets' scrolls,
All good deeds done unto the Lord
And purity of virgin souls.

I bind unto myself today
The virtues of the star lit heaven,
The glorious sun's life giving ray,
The whiteness of the moon at even,
The flashing of the lightning free,
The whirling wind's tempestuous shocks,
The stable earth, the deep salt sea
Around the old eternal rocks.

I bind unto myself today
The power of God to hold and lead,
His eye to watch, His might to stay,
His ear to hearken to my need.
The wisdom of my God to teach,
His hand to guide, His shield to ward;
The word of God to give me speech,
His heavenly host to be my guard.

Against the demon snares of sin,
The vice that gives temptation force,
The natural lusts that war within,
The hostile men that mar my course;
Or few or many, far or nigh,
In every place and in all hours,
Against their fierce hostility
I bind to me these holy powers.

Against all Satan's spells and wiles,
Against false words of heresy,
Against the knowledge that defiles,
Against the heart's idolatry,
Against the wizard's evil craft,
Against the death wound and the burning,
The choking wave, the poisoned shaft,
Protect me, Christ, till Thy returning.

Christ be with me, Christ within me,
Christ behind me, Christ before me,
Christ beside me, Christ to win me,
Christ to comfort and restore me.
Christ beneath me, Christ above me,
Christ in quiet, Christ in danger,
Christ in hearts of all that love me,
Christ in mouth of friend and stranger.

I bind unto myself the Name,
The strong Name of the Trinity,
By invocation of the same,
The Three in One and One in Three.
By Whom all nature hath creation,
Eternal Father, Spirit, Word:
Praise to the Lord of my salvation,
Salvation is of Christ the Lord.


[/quote:561424d947]


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## FrozenChosen (Jun 1, 2004)

We use the rotation that several people have mentioned already.


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## JohnV (Jun 1, 2004)

Mark:
That's the first I've seen that. From an apologetic point of view I think it is great. But I don't know about it as a creedal statement. It is descriptive more than precise and to the point.

Is this sung or recited?


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## Saiph (Jun 1, 2004)

It can be sung or recited. We have done both.

What is the difference between stating what we believe and what we &quot;Bind unto ourself&quot; ? ? 

I find it to be more existentially creedal.


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## JohnV (Jun 1, 2004)

Mark:
As you stated, it is sometimes used in place of the Creeds. I see nothing wrong with that. My trepidation with it may be the result of the many &quot;replacement&quot; confessions that have been adopted by a lot of Reformed churches. I think a creed ought to state clearly and simply the basic tenets of the faith, without any cultural add-ons, not even for the sake of musicability. 

I like singing the Aposltes' Creed, but I don't think it should be overdone. I would rather recite it mostly, and sing it sometimes. I know that it is something that the ancient believers also recited, and so I know that I am one with them. I don't know that the ancient believers would understand or approve our modern creeds, because we understand a lot more things according to our cultural setting than they did back then. 

&quot;I bind myself to...&quot; is the same as &quot;I believe....&quot; It actually states what belief is in a better way. It is not just following your own mind, but a giving in to established truths. There are many who 'sincerely believe', but who are just stating what their heart tells them to. There is no notion of being steered by truth itself, but only by the leanings of their hearts. That cannot be called 'sincere'. What kind of mooring for faith is something as changeable as the human heart? One can be 'sincere' in one thing one day, and be 'sincere' on a contradictory thing the next. What kind of sincerity is that? It is the same as binding oneself to the waves of the sea, or trying to hold oil in the hand.


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## yeutter (Jun 1, 2004)

*Reciting the creeds*

In Anglican circles the Apostles Creed is recited, chanted, or sung at every service of Morning and Evening Prayer with seven exceptions. On seven occasions in the Church year the Athanasian creed is substituted for the Apostles creed. The Nicene creed is recited, chanted or sung at every celebration of the Lords Supper.


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## cupotea (Jun 21, 2004)

In the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod a Creed is said every Sunday morning. The Nicene Creed is said with communion, the Apostles is said without. On Trinity Sunday, good Lutheran Churches recite the whole of the Athanasian Creed.

Another interesting thing:

In the LCMS, they substitute the word &quot;Christian&quot; for &quot;Catholic&quot; in the last clause. I always found it interesting that the churches historically most vocal in their criticism of Rome (the Reformed) would include it, but the church which has taken as it's position that some of the furniture Luther left Rome with was well-made and serviceable (the Lutheran) changes it.

I remember reading somewhere that &quot;Christianus&quot; is an old rendering in some formula or another, but I don't know...


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## Me Died Blue (Jun 21, 2004)

I was first introduced to the Apostles' Creed (and the Nicene and Athanasian) by...Hank Hanegraaff, actually. Right after I first began doubting the centrality of &quot;Spirit slaying&quot; in the Christian life, but long before I studied Reformed theology, I was a huge fan of his. Reading the creeds was a new thing for me, and I started to appreciate them. Needless to say, I've never been in a church service with them read, but look forward to that pretty soon. Actually, the only time I heard them read in a service was when the youth leadership team of my church's youth group visited a Lutheran church one sunday. We were being exposed to various churches different than our own (but of course a Reformed church was never visited). At the Lutheran church, it waas just read basically in the middle of the service, but other than that, I have no experience with church creedal readings. The only song version of the Apostles' Creed I have ever heard is Rich Mullins' song &quot;Creed.&quot;


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## Craig (Jun 21, 2004)

We'll recite the Apostle's Creed before communion...I don't care too much for it. It's too general. I like the Nicene Creed more.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jun 22, 2004)

I don't care much for the liturgical use of Creeds in any fashion. They are nice historical doctrinal statements. I guess, it's the Puritan in me, but I don't like using Creeds in worship because I can find no command to use them in Scripture in that manner.


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