# Logos going after the Roman Catholic market



## Pilgrim (Sep 5, 2011)

While looking for something else, I came across this article by Paul M. Elliott regarding Logos and Catholicism. (Elliott was one of those involved in the formation of the ERPC which has been discussed here of late, but he is apparently now a Baptist.) 

This article by Dr. Elliott (in which he says he can't recommend Logos) reads like something that you'd expect from an independent fundamentalist regarding separation, something I'm not necessarily inclined to disagree with at times. (In this case, it's likely moreso the influence of the late John Robbins.) The question it raises for me is this: How is Logos offering Catholic materials any different than doing business with CBD or any similar bookstore that identifies itself as Christian (whether online or brick and mortar) that sells Roman Catholic materials? Should we limit our purchases to only those with whom we are in substantial agreement? 

What think ye of this development, particularly you longtime Logos users and customers? 

This development (the hiring of a Catholic product manager) was announced on the Logos blog. According to one of the commenters, negative reactions to the announcement in the comment stream were deleted.


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## jogri17 (Sep 5, 2011)

As a strong confessionally Reformed evangelical *at a catholic theological secualr faculty* here in Québec, I am grateful the measures. You may not agree with the Roman Catholic Church, but you cannot deny that they have some great minds there. And they continue to have some good rescources that are worthy at looking at- at the very least so we can better defend and precisize our theology. 

De plus, It must be rembered that Logos is not a ministry and does not claim to be. It is a Christian Company. Many Reformed People use it and they produce lots of Reformed rescourses. We should be grateful. But providing book in a readable and serchable format even of those we consider to be apostates, helps everybody not just Catholics.


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## Edward (Sep 5, 2011)

Wouldn't consistency require that one also not buy gasoline from a station that also sells gas to Catholics that they use to get to Mass? 

And wouldn't it be an order of magnitude worse to protest abortion along side Catholics than it is to buy books from the same company?


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## Semper Fidelis (Sep 5, 2011)

I don't see much difference between offering the complete works of Finney vice offering RC resources. It's an electronic library and it would be useful for even the Reformed learner to have access to RCC resources.


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## Pilgrim (Sep 5, 2011)

Semper Fidelis said:


> I don't see much difference between offering the complete works of Finney vice offering RC resources. It's an electronic library and it would be useful for even the Reformed learner to have access to RCC resources.



Agreed. If making heretical material available is the issue, apparently I should uninstall (and denounce) the free Bible study programs E-Sword and Online Bible since you can download some Roman Catholic material, some Finney works and other false teaching (some of which are "official" modules on one or the other) and view it on those programs. I think Online Bible might have some full preterist material as well. 

(Edit: But as Ruben notes below, there appears to be more to it than simply making such material available.)

---------- Post added at 03:20 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:17 PM ----------

Being somewhat backward and slow on the uptake when it comes to technology, I'm not that familiar with Logos, especially as a business. Did they ever hold themselves forth as a specifically evangelical company, or was that just their first market? Did they ever promote themselves as anything other than a software company that offers language resources and other theological products?


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## py3ak (Sep 5, 2011)

It doesn't sound like it is just that they are selling Catholic documents - who doesn't want a searchable database of encyclicals? Shine the light and RC theology withers. But here it sounds like in order to attract the Roman Catholics they are quite willing to spout nonsense about ecumenical dialogue. Consider this, from the announcement:



> It is my hope that by integrating more Catholic works into the Logos library these traditions and Catholicism might find a bridge to understanding in the Word of God itself.
> 
> Sign up to receive news and information regarding our Catholic resources!
> 
> ...



Logos’ New Catholic Product Manager: Andrew Jones | Logos Talk: The Logos Bible Software Blog

I'm not entirely sure how I feel about a business giving itself airs with spiritual aspirations; but when those spiritual aspirations involve some sort of rapprochement between Rome and Protestants _that doesn't appear to involve repentance_, well, at that point the nausea is pretty definite.


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## Pilgrim (Sep 5, 2011)

Ruben,

I think this is a good point, specifically with their marketing campaign with this product manager, the Jesuit motto, etc. As with Rich and others, I don't have a problem with them making material available. (Was there no RC material whatsoever available from Logos before?) But if they get into an ECT type of promotion, which this product manager seems to allude to, that's certainly objectionable. 

Elliott said he couldn't recommend them prior to this, although he apparently had before. Having Driscoll material, NPP, FV and those espousing various other errors was enough for him to not offer it for sale anymore. That's well and good. Ministries do have to be careful with regard to what they recommend and especially with what they sell. But with regard to questionable or unorthodox material, was there nothing in Logos' offerings that wouldn't have been objectionable to a Reformed or Calvinistic evangelical before? I doubt it. Perhaps it's because most of those evangelicals he listed as being objectionable could be considered "Reformed" in some sense, depending on how broadly you wish to define that term. 

Could (or should) Logos be viewed as sort of a bookstore selling electronic "books" that can be viewed using their software, along with being an industry leader with their software? Have they ever held themselves out as being anything else? But as Ruben notes, this doesn't excuse a marketing campaign or strategy that arguably seeks to blur the line between truth and error, assuming they are in large agreement with their employee's letter. Then you have the alleged removal of comments. If true, was it just histronics, or were comments removed that were of the nature that Ruben has made here, and which I'm sure many of us would share. 

A company that deals in Bible study software isn't likely to be viewed in the same light as Amazon and the Kindle, etc. I figure that, unless they subscribe to some kind of confession and do business accordingly, if they're going to offer material from a wide assortment of perspectives, they are basically going to have to run it as a business with little or no comment about the truth or error of particular non-Biblical material, as well as what constitutes the Canon. Does running it like a business necessarily have to involve the kind of outreach we see here? If maximum profits/commerciality are the goal, then maybe it does, at least to some extent. 


Something else that is at least tangentially related just came to mind. In the past, I've turned down opportunities to get into the funeral home/cemetery business. Part of it was because it would have been a bad career move in general, especially with those particular opportunities. But another factor was the knowledge that it would entail a neutral stance toward other religions that isn't a factor in most other occupations. This is yet another example of the church ceding ground to the state and/or commercial interests. 




py3ak said:


> It doesn't sound like it is just that they are selling Catholic documents - who doesn't want a searchable database of encyclicals? Shine the light and RC theology withers. But here it sounds like in order to attract the Roman Catholics they are quite willing to spout nonsense about ecumenical dialogue. Consider this, from the announcement:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## DMcFadden (Sep 5, 2011)

I quit relying upon Logos for theological reliability a very long time ago.

As was mentioned in the previous post by Chris, they hawk Federal Vision, Finney, Barth, Torrance, and "Constructive" theology along with their other resources.

I buy from them because they have the best quantity of material and it is easier to store nearly 5,000 of their books on a hard drive than on wooden shelves.

In the olden days when books were sold in stores with bricks and mortar and windows, "Christian" bookstores routinely stocked Berkhof and the Tulsa charismaniacs. And, the ones still open probably have Osteen on their shelves as well.

It really should not surprise anyone that a company trafficking in academic and hard to find scholarly resources would be anything other than pluralistic, eccumenical, and broad of vision.


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## Pilgrim (Sep 6, 2011)

DMcFadden said:


> In the olden days when books were sold in stores with bricks and mortar and windows, "Christian" bookstores routinely stocked Berkhof and the Tulsa charismaniacs. And, the ones still open probably have Osteen on their shelves as well.
> 
> It really should not surprise anyone that a company trafficking in academic and hard to find scholarly resources would be anything other than pluralistic, eccumenical, and broad of vision.



I had thought to post something like this earlier, but I didn't want to get off track. If most of the brick and mortar Christian bookstores threw out the charismania and WOF (the Tulsa charismaniacs to which you refer) material along with the various trinkets they'd be out of business within the year if not sooner in some cases. More and more of them are going out of business anyway.


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