# List of texts where thee, thou, thy v ye,you your distinction is significant



## Eoghan (Nov 24, 2013)

I would like to start a list with because the plural you at the end means it is the prayer life of the married couple that is at stake _*not*_ the individual!
[BIBLE]1 Peter 3:7[/BIBLE]


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## hammondjones (Nov 24, 2013)

Luke 22:31-32
*KJV*
31 And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have *you*, that he may sift *you *as wheat:
32 But I have prayed for *thee*, that *thy *faith fail not: and when *thou *art converted, strengthen *thy *brethren.

*ESV*
31 “Simon, Simon, behold, Satan demanded to have *you*, that he might sift *you *like wheat, 32 but I have prayed for *you *that *your *faith may not fail. And when *you *have turned again, strengthen *your *brothers.” 


The Greek word for you is plural in 31. In verse 32, all four instances are singular.


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## CJW (Nov 24, 2013)

Genesis 17:10 This is my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. (KJV)

Genesis 17:10 This is my covenant, which you shall keep, between me and you and your offspring after you: Every male among you shall be circumcised. (ESV)

The first time I read through the bible in the KJV, this verse made a big impact on me, as I had never before seen so clearly that the promises made to Abraham were pointing to Christ. The clear juxtaposition of all of you vs one specific seed in this one verse was singularly clear to me. For me at least, this strongly clarifies Paul's point in Galatians 3:16.


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## KMK (Nov 25, 2013)

Eoghan said:


> I would like to start a list with because the plural you at the end means it is the prayer life of the married couple that is at stake not the individual!



Can you clarify your question?


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## sevenzedek (Nov 25, 2013)

1 Peter 3:7
Likewise, ye husbands, dwell with them according to knowledge, giving honour unto the wife, as unto the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life; that *your* prayers be not hindered.

Your is singular. Again, perhaps you could clarify.


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## George Bailey (Nov 25, 2013)

Maybe needs a separate thread, but what is the original language/manuscript evidence for singular vs. plural pronouns? (i.e. is it as clear in the original languages where the singular vs. plural is to be used?) I ask because it seems like all of the discussions about the value of seeing the singular vs. plural "you" are pointing to the KJV...

I'm quite interested in studying this "list" of verses, and spending more time with the KJV, if it is indeed supported from the original languages; I think that it would change several of my perspectives on things...

Thanks,
Brian


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## hammondjones (Nov 25, 2013)

George Bailey said:


> (i.e. is it as clear in the original languages where the singular vs. plural is to be used?)







Yes, in almost all languages. English used to differentiate between you and you (all) , but no longer does, now preferring the formal _you_ over the familiar _thou/thee_. (see also "I thou thee thou traitor!" - an insult to Sir Walter Raliegh through use of the informal pronoun)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_Modern_English#Pronouns

Shameless plug for _ya'll_?


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## CJW (Nov 25, 2013)

George Bailey said:


> Maybe needs a separate thread, but what is the original language/manuscript evidence for singular vs. plural pronouns? (i.e. is it as clear in the original languages where the singular vs. plural is to be used?



Greek does indeed differentiate between the 2nd person singular and 2nd person plural. There is a separate pronoun and verbal inflection/ending for both, so in the original it would be easy to tell who was being spoken to (one person or a multitude). I don't know Hebrew, but I believe it does as well.

English once did too, hence the pronouns thou (singular) and ye (plural) with their respective verbal inflections.


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## Rev. Todd Ruddell (Nov 26, 2013)

You are correct that Hebrew has different syntactical forms for the second person plural and singular. One of the verses I cite when asked about this difference comes from John 3:5-7

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. 

Note that if it begins with a "y" it is plural, and if it begins with a "th" it is singular. So Jesus says to Nicodemus in verse 7, "Marvel not that I say unto thee (singular) ye (plural, meaning all you Pharisees) must be born again." In modern translations without that distinction one cannot make out that difference, and it reads as if Jesus is speaking to Nicodemus apart from any reference to his compatriots. So, while many confidently declare that the AV obscures the message of the Scriptures through its archaisms, I use it because it elucidates, and we use it in Church for the same reason. If one asks for a list of those Scriptures where there is a different reading, it ought to be evident that such a list would be rather long--every instance of the second-person singular would be different from a modern translation. The other archaisms, which can be learned through a little practice, are well worth the clarity provided by this distinguishing between second person singular and plural.


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## JP Wallace (Nov 26, 2013)

George Bailey said:


> Maybe needs a separate thread, but what is the original language/manuscript evidence for singular vs. plural pronouns? (i.e. is it as clear in the original languages where the singular vs. plural is to be used?)



Yes George it is very clear at multiple levels (usually) who is speaking or doing, who is being spoken to or having something done to them, and that not just because of the presence of specific pronouns but also because gender and number is clear from verbs (is the subject plural or singualar), objects (ditto), adjectives etc.


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## davdavis (Nov 29, 2013)

Really sounds like a good argument to me for the retention of the Good ole southern Y'all, eg "Marvel not that I say unto you, that Y'all must be born again"


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