# Salvation as a future event...



## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 16, 2005)

I've been studying and reading a lot as of late about the nature of salvation and how it is mostly spoken of in terms of future fulfillment. What I mean by this is that we can't really say that we are "saved" while we are here on earth, as our salvation will be God saving us from the eternal fire of hell that is for satan and his kingdom. We have the hope of glorification and salvation to be complete, but it is not readily apparent to us, as we are still commanded to "abide" and told that we must not "fall away from the faith", etc. Some of the verses I have looked at, thanks to _Institutes_, are:

*Beloved, we are God's children now, and what we will be has not yet appeared; but we know that when he appears we shall be like him, because we shall see him as he is.
1 John 3:2

and if children, then heirs—heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with him in order that we may also be glorified with him.
Rom 8:17

For in this hope we were saved. Now hope that is seen is not hope. For who hopes for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we wait for it with patience.
Rom 8:24-25

for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come.
1 Tim 4:8

Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God according to the promise of the life that is in Christ Jesus
2 Tim 1:1

Since we have these promises, beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, bringing holiness to completion in the fear of God.
2 Cor 7:1

So we are always of good courage. We know that while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord, for we walk by faith, not by sight.
2 Cor 5:6-7

Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.
Heb 11:1*

Any thoughts on this topic?

P.S. What it also makes me evaluate, is the fact that if some claim Baptism to be a personal profession of their salvation, how does that make any sense in light of this? Is not baptism an expression of belief in God's promise of salvation, not the actual reality of having obtained it (since none of us have)?


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## turmeric (Feb 16, 2005)

I have been told that we HAVE BEEN saved, we ARE BEING saved, and WILL BE saved. (Sorry about the capitals, I dont think QuickReply has bold & italic fonts.)


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 17, 2005)

I have heard this as well. However, if it is a process, how can we "be saved" completely until the entire process is complete? Semantics? I dunno.. *shrug*


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## turmeric (Feb 17, 2005)

The decision was made before the foundation of the world, the price was paid & accepted, now it's just the working out of our salvation and the Holy Spirit's sanctifying work. It's an already/not yet sort of thing.


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## Me Died Blue (Feb 17, 2005)

We have been justified, we are being sanctified, and we will be glorified.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 17, 2005)

I understand and agree. However, I guess my point is different...


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 17, 2005)

Are we justified before the action of justification takes place, though? We won't "really" be justified until we are separated as one of God's children at Christ's return and counted righteous in Christ, right?


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## Average Joey (Feb 17, 2005)

I`ve always agreed with "being saved".


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## Scott Bushey (Feb 17, 2005)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Are we justified before the action of justification takes place, though? We won't "really" be justified until we are separated as one of God's children at Christ's return and counted righteous in Christ, right?



WCF Ch 11

I. Those whom God effectually calleth, he also freely justifieth:[1] not by infusing righteousness into them, but by pardoning their sins, and by accounting and accepting their persons as righteous; not for anything wrought in them, or done by them, but for Christ's sake alone; nor by imputing faith itself, the act of believing, or any other evangelical obedience to them, as their righteousness; but by imputing the obedience and satisfaction of Christ unto them,[2] they receiving and resting on him and his righteousness, by faith; which faith they have not of themselves, it is the gift of God.[3]

1. Rom. 3:24; 5:15-16; 8:30
2. Rom. 3:22-28; 4:5-8; 5:17-19; II Cor. 5:19, 21; Titus 3:5, 7; Eph. 1:7; Jer. 23:6; I Cor. 1:30-31
3. John 1:12; 6:44-45, 65; Acts 10:43; 13:38-39; Phil. 1:29; 3:9; Eph. 2:7-8

II. Faith, thus receiving and resting on Christ and his righteousness, is the alone instrument of justification:[4] yet is it not alone in the person justified, but is ever accompanied with all other saving graces, and is no dead faith, but worketh by love.[5]

4. John 3:18, 36; Rom. 3:28; 5:1
5. James 2:17, 22, 26; Gal. 5:6

III. Christ, by his obedience and death, did fully discharge the debt of all those that are thus justified, and did make a proper, real, and full satisfaction to his Father's justice in their behalf.[6] Yet, inasmuch as he was given by the Father for them;[7] and his obedience and satisfaction accepted in their stead;[8] and both, freely, not for anything in them; their justification is only of free grace;[9] that both the exact justice and rich grace of God might be glorified in the justification of sinners.[10]

6. Mark 10:45; Rom. 5:8-10, 18-19; Gal. 3:13; I Tim. 2:5-6; Heb. 1:3; 10:10, 14; Dan. 9:24, 26; see Isa. 52:13-53:12

7. Rom. 8:32; John 3:16
8. II Cor. 5:21; Eph. 5:2; Phil. 2:6-9; Isa. 53:10-11
9. Rom. 3:24; Eph. 1:7
10. Rom. 3:26; Eph. 2:7; Zech. 9:9; Isa. 45:21

*IV. God did, from all eternity, decree to justify all the elect,[11] and Christ did, in the fullness of time, die for their sins, and rise again for their justification:[12] nevertheless, they are not justified, until the Holy Spirit doth, in due time, actually apply Christ unto them.[13]

11. Rom. 8:29, 30; Gal. 3:8; I Peter 1:2, 19-20
12. Gal. 4:4; I Tim. 2:6; Rom. 4:25
13. Eph. 2:3; Titus 3:3-7; Gal. 2:16; cf. Col. 1:21-22

V. God doth continue to forgive the sins of those that are justified;[14] and, although they can never fall from the state of justification,[15] yet they may, by their sins, fall under God's fatherly displeasure, and not have the light of his countenance restored unto them, until they humble themselves, confess their sins, beg pardon, and renew their faith and repentance.[16]

14. Matt. 6:12; I John 1:7, 9; 2:1-2
15. Rom. 5:1-5, 8:30-39; Heb. 10:14; cf. Luke 22:32; John 10:28
16. Psa. 32:5; ch. 51; 89:30-33; Matt. 26:75; Luke 1:20; I Cor. 11:30, 32*

VI. The justification of believers under the old testament was, in all these respects, one and the same with the justification of believers under the new testament.[17]

17. Gal. 3:9, 13-14; Rom. 4:6-8, 22-24; 10:6-13; Heb. 13:8


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## fredtgreco (Feb 17, 2005)

Scott beat me to that post. The Confession handle this superbly.


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Feb 17, 2005)

What is meant by Calvin in the following section:



> *Here we must guard against the diabolical imagination of Servetus, who, from a wish, or at least the pretence of a wish, to extol the greatness of Christ, abolishes the promises entirely, as if they had come to an end at the same time with the Law. He pretends, that by the faith of the Gospel all the promises have been fulfilled; as if there was no distinction between us and Christ. I lately observed that Christ had not left any part of our salvation incomplete; but from this it is erroneously inferred, that we are now put in possession of all the blessings purchased by him; thereby implying, that Paul was incorrect in saying, "We are saved by hope," (Rom. 3: 24.) I admit, indeed, that by believing in Christ we pass from death unto life; but we must at the same time remember the words of John, that though we know we are "the sons of God," "it does not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is," (1 John 3: 2.) Therefore, although Christ offers us in the Gospel a present fulness of spiritual blessings, fruition remains in the keeping of hope, until we are divested of corruptible flesh, and transformed into the glory of him who has gone before us. Meanwhile, in leaning on the promises, we obey the command of the Holy Spirit, whose authority ought to have weight enough with us to silence all the barkings of that impure dog. We have it on the testimony of Paul, that "Godliness is profitable unto all things, having promise of the life that now is, and of that which is to come," (1 Tim. 4: 8) for which reason, he glories in being "an apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 1: 1.) And he elsewhere reminds us, that we have the same promises which were given to the saints in ancient time, (2 Cor. 7: 1.) In fine, he makes the sum of our felicity consist in being sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise. Indeed we have no enjoyment of Christ, unless by embracing him as clothed with his own promises. Hence it is that he indeed dwells in our hearts and yet we are as pilgrims in regard to him, because "we walk by faith, not by sight," (2 Cor. 5: 6, 7.) There is no inconsistency in the two things, viz., that in Christ we possess every thing pertaining to the perfection of the heavenly life, and yet that faith is only a vision "of things not seen," (Heb. 11: 1.) Only there is this difference to be observed in the nature or quality of the promises, that the Gospel points with the finger to what the Law shadowed under types.*



_Institutes_, Book II, Chapter IX, Section 2

[Edited on 2-17-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]


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## heartoflesh (Feb 17, 2005)

> ...whose authority ought to have weight enough with us to silence all the barkings of that impure dog.



I love rancorous personal attacks. Just not enough of that today!

[Edited on 2-17-2005 by Rick Larson]


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