# Confronting a Secular Society and Secularism



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 3, 2015)

What should Christians respond to the typical complain that "we live in a secular state and society". They say that we need to get rid of any kind of religious holidays, religious moral standards, or anything that may remind us of God, since we need to live in a culture with neutral values. This also touches some other areas in which the government is legislating over moral issues.

Could you guys recommend any good books concerning Christians dealing/responding to a secular culture/secularism? -_specially to issues dealing with the state and its relationship to the church, and how Christians should dialogue with unbelievers. _- Any good books or any helpful comments?


----------



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 5, 2015)

Any comments or suggestions on books like: (1) *Calvin and Culture* by David Hall, or (2) *The Calvinistic Concept of Culture* by Henry Van Til? Any other books out there on dealing with a reformed view and dialogue with the culture?


----------



## jwright82 (Apr 6, 2015)

I would start with James K A Smith. Also Nicholas Wolterstorff and Charles Taylor are great resources. The basic critique is this that secularism is just as much a religious POV as anything else is. So why does it get to be a privileged religious POV? That is why does it get to be the only POV to tell everyone else what to do? Once you reveal that secularism is just another religion than it falls apart. I hope that makes sense.


----------



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 8, 2015)

Thank you James. I think these sources are a bit more philosophical, right? I think they will be of great help to understand that worldview though. Which book by Smith do you think is a good starting point?

Are you familiar with the following titles, (it seems these are more for the common reader): _A Secular Faith: Why Christianity Favors the Separation of Church and State _by *Darryl Hart*; and _"Finding Truth: 5 Principles for Unmasking Atheism, Secularism, and Other God Substitutes"_ and _"Saving Leonardo: A Call to Resist the Secular Assault on Mind, Morals, and Meaning"_ by *Nancy Pearcey*??


----------



## mvdm (Apr 8, 2015)

Post Tenebras Lux said:


> Any comments or suggestions on books like: (1) *Calvin and Culture* by David Hall, or (2) *The Calvinistic Concept of Culture* by Henry Van Til? Any other books out there on dealing with a reformed view and dialogue with the culture?



Good books with a Reformed perspective.


----------



## mvdm (Apr 8, 2015)

Post Tenebras Lux said:


> A Secular Faith: Why Christianity Favors the Separation of Church and State by Darryl Hart;



Would recommend reading it, not for its prescription, but to become familiar with a Radical Two Kingdoms view which separates one's faith from politics, culture, etc. or in the author's words, living a "hyphenated life".


----------



## Andres (Apr 8, 2015)

Messiah the Prince by William Symington!!! One of my favorite books! Symington teaches the biblical view of the mediatorial Kingship of Christ - Christ is King both over the church and the world. Therefore magistrates have a duty, yes a duty, to enforce/uphold Christian principles. We do not live in a neutral society, but Christ is King! 

Pastor Mark Koller also preached an excellent sermon series on the mediatorial Kingship of Christ which can be listened to here.


----------



## Edward (Apr 8, 2015)

Post Tenebras Lux said:


> They say that we need to get rid of any kind of religious holidays





You might look at some of the threads here about celebration of holidays like Christmas and Easter before trying to recruit too many warriors on that issue.


----------



## clark thompson (Apr 9, 2015)

We should not allow the world living as the world stop us from serving our Lord Jesus.


----------



## jwright82 (Apr 10, 2015)

Post Tenebras Lux said:


> Thank you James. I think these sources are a bit more philosophical, right? I think they will be of great help to understand that worldview though. Which book by Smith do you think is a good starting point?
> 
> Are you familiar with the following titles, (it seems these are more for the common reader): _A Secular Faith: Why Christianity Favors the Separation of Church and State _by *Darryl Hart*; and _"Finding Truth: 5 Principles for Unmasking Atheism, Secularism, and Other God Substitutes"_ and _"Saving Leonardo: A Call to Resist the Secular Assault on Mind, Morals, and Meaning"_ by *Nancy Pearcey*??



I would start with Smith's _Introducing Radical Orthodoxy: Mapping a Post-Secular Theology_ and _How to Read Charlse Taylor_. But go to YouTube and look all them up. I have Hart's book. I'm not familiar with the other one. I'm not real onboard with either Theonomy or R2K as far as their responses to Secularism go. Smith is not as reformed as I would like but more reformed than the other two.


----------



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 11, 2015)

Andrew Silva, Amen brother, thank you for recommending the title I will definitely try to find a copy, I am guessing it addresses the matter of the Lord as a sovereign ruler over creation.


----------



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 11, 2015)

Edward said:


> Post Tenebras Lux said:
> 
> 
> > They say that we need to get rid of any kind of religious holidays
> ...



Edward, thank you for your reply, I was mentioning that, only to show common ideas or misconceptions concerning Christianity in a secular society. A society that tries to separate Church and State in a manner that gets rid of anything that may remind people of the Christian God. Since the secular culture in which we live tries to live in a so-called autonomous way (people think that by getting rid of Easter, Christmas, etc., they will get rid of the idea of God in society). 

So, I am looking for Reformed books that may deal with the responsibility that the government and every citizen has before a sovereign ruler even in a secular society like ours; also what the relationship between Church and State is and how that takes place in a secular rebellious, irreverent society.


----------



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 13, 2015)

mvdm said:


> Post Tenebras Lux said:
> 
> 
> > Any comments or suggestions on books like: (1) *Calvin and Culture* by David Hall, or (2) *The Calvinistic Concept of Culture* by Henry Van Til? Any other books out there on dealing with a reformed view and dialogue with the culture?
> ...



Thank you Mark for your input, no better starting point than with an examination of Calvin's view of Culture, right?


----------



## ZackF (Apr 13, 2015)

I have found Francis Schaeffer's works helpful. He paints with broad brushes. You won't find polished prose but he is thought provoking and always has a boot-to-the-ground feel. I also recommend his disciples Os Guiness and Jerram Barrs. You will have your differences with any of those men but they are extremely helpful on many issues. Guinness is great for the big picture (history, schools of thought, social trends) and Barrs is for loving and confronting individuals one-on-one(prayer, befriending/evangelizing people, loving difficult people/sinners).


----------



## Jake (Apr 13, 2015)

Post Tenebras Lux said:


> Andrew Silva, Amen brother, thank you for recommending the title I will definitely try to find a copy, I am guessing it addresses the matter of the Lord as a sovereign ruler over creation.



There is a free version on-line here: https://archive.org/details/messiahtheprince00symiuoft (you have to skip through a fair bit of intro stuff if you're not interested)

There's also recently been an updated republication by Crown and Covenant.


----------



## Post Tenebras Lux (Apr 16, 2015)

KS_Presby said:


> I have found Francis Schaeffer's works helpful. He paints with broad brushes. You won't find polished prose but he is thought provoking and always has a boot-to-the-ground feel. I also recommend his disciples Os Guiness and Jerram Barrs. You will have your differences with any of those men but they are extremely helpful on many issues. Guinness is great for the big picture (history, schools of thought, social trends) and Barrs is for loving and confronting individuals one-on-one(prayer, befriending/evangelizing people, loving difficult people/sinners).



Thank you Zack, I will see if I can find some of their works. Any advice where to start with any of these three?


----------



## mvdm (Apr 16, 2015)

Pablo, for what it's worth, here is an article I had published in Christian Renewal urging a Reformed response to the rise of intolerant secularism in our contemporary North American context (click "view" button to open the file).

Shining Biblical Light in Darkening World, CR FEBRUARY 4 2015page 6-12


----------



## jandrusk (Apr 16, 2015)

Theonomy Resources: Second Edition of "God is Just: A Defense of the Old Testament Civil Laws" now Available


----------

