# Baptist College hires Ergun Caner as President



## Bill The Baptist (Dec 9, 2013)

Just wanted to get your thoughts on the recent hire of Ergun Caner to be President of Brewton-Parker college in Georgia. Ergun Caner to lead Ga. Baptist college


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## Marrow Man (Dec 9, 2013)

I was born in the town next door to Brewton-Parker College, and grew up nearby. It is a tiny college in the middle of nowhere. I actually did some adjunct teaching at a satellite campus for the college over a decade ago (mathematics classes). Let's just say I was "less than impressed" with BPC.

I also believe that BPC is going through some accreditation problems currently as well. This strikes me as a story designed to make a "big splash," plus it has political motivations (Caner's brother is the President of another SBC college in Georgia, and the interim president of BPC was "on loan" from that college). The whole situation is disconcerting.


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## Bill The Baptist (Dec 9, 2013)

It just goes to show that discernment has fallen victim to pragmatism in many areas of the church. I was discussing all the "I've been to heaven" books with my church on a Wednesday night and how Lifeway will sell almost anything to make a buck and several people in the congregation justified this by pointing out that Lifeway gives a large portion of its profits to missions and other Christian endeavors. I responded by saying that Lifeway could make even more money for missions by selling crack cocaine at its stores. The response was silence.


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## Marrow Man (Dec 9, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> It just goes to show that discernment has fallen victim to pragmatism in many areas of the church. I was discussing all the "I've been to heaven" books with my church on a Wednesday night and how Lifeway will sell almost anything to make a buck and several people in the congregation justified this by pointing out that Lifeway gives a large portion of its profits to missions and other Christian endeavors. I responded by saying that Lifeway could make even more money for missions by selling crack cocaine at its stores. The response was silence.


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## JP Wallace (Dec 9, 2013)

Shameful.


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## SeanPatrickCornell (Dec 9, 2013)

Shameful and, well, completely unsurprising.


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## Andres (Dec 9, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> I responded by saying that Lifeway could make even more money for missions by selling crack cocaine at its stores.




 Why you gotta be so mean?


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## davdavis (Dec 9, 2013)

It would appear that L. Ron Caner has more lies, (I meant lives) than a cat. The truly amazing thing is that Caner can still find an army of defenders. The magazine SBC today makes this rather odd statement defending Caner


> ",In 2010 Caner was embroiled in controversy when religious bloggers accused him of embellishing his background as a former Muslim turned Christian. _*When those bloggers began uploading videos allegedly of Caner*_, (italics mine) Liberty University formed a committee to investigate the charges. Though the committee found no evidence of Caner deliberately lying, he stepped down as dean, though he continued as a full-time professor until he went to Arlington "


SBC_TODAY
I attempted to post a comment asking them to explain the* videos allegedly of Caner* thing but my comments were not posted.
Since the only 3 comments posted were all lionizing Caner as a "warrior", I guess mine was one of many that went down the memory hole.

David Davis
PCA Montgomery, Al
Dave,s Ravings: L. Ron Caners saga of Lies Continues

“You must pay for everything in this world one way and another. There is nothing free except the Grace of God. You cannot earn that or deserve it.” 
― Charles Portis, True Grit


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## SolaSaint (Dec 9, 2013)

I already heard Dr. James White is now building a new underground bunker at Brewton Parker.


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## Unoriginalname (Dec 9, 2013)

I think it was Steve Hays who said arguably you could say Caner profited off 9/11 in that he sold a false sensationalist story about Is*** to a post 9/11 church paranoid about the next attack.


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## JonathanHunt (Dec 10, 2013)

It is shameful, that is all we can say. It seems that integrity is something which is only required of other people.


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## reaganmarsh (Dec 10, 2013)

He is something of a hero to several ministers in our local Association. I've yet to determine why. But it makes it very difficult to address the matter. If he is dishonest, as it appears he is, then he should have been removed from the ministry altogether.


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## Bill The Baptist (Dec 10, 2013)

> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> > He is something of a hero to several ministers in our local Association. I've yet to determine why. But it makes it very difficult to address the matter. If he is dishonest, as it appears he is, then he should have been removed from the ministry altogether.
> ...



Even though they refused to acknowledge that he was guilty, at least Liberty had the good sense to send him packing. I'm not sure how this relates to ecclesiology, are not Presbyterian colleges also free to hire whomever they choose?


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## Edward (Dec 10, 2013)

> and -if it is- then it should not be free to hire whomever it chooses apart from vetting and approval of Presbytery.



Fortunately the PCUSA doesn't follow that rule, and you can find some sound folks at places like Grove City or Belhaven.


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## reaganmarsh (Dec 11, 2013)

Josh, I'm in my 16th year in SBC ministry and I'm not sure. 

I recently spoke with a friend from another state (another SBC minister) who told me of a man who presently pastors in his local Association. The man has served 3 other churches in that county over the last several years. At each of those 3 churches, he committed adultery and left his wife to marry the adulteress. 3 affairs, 3 resignations over the affairs, 3 divorces, 3 remarriages (he's presently on wife number 4 and serving church number 4). The Associational Director expressed concern to my friend, but said that due to local church autonomy there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent, remove, or discipline this man. 

I would think that someone who knows the facts should notify the church who had ordained him in order to ask them to revoke or nullify his ordination. Apart from that, I have no idea, unless his present church fires him and required him to surrender his ordination to them, or required him to notify his original (ordaining) church and surrender his ordination to that body. 

That's my best guess. Our polity is a mess, when stories like this one are extant. 



> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> > He is something of a hero to several ministers in our local Association. I've yet to determine why. But it makes it very difficult to address the matter. If he is dishonest, as it appears he is, then he should have been removed from the ministry altogether.
> ...


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## Bill The Baptist (Dec 11, 2013)

reaganmarsh said:


> The Associational Director expressed concern to my friend, but said that due to local church autonomy there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent, remove, or discipline this man.



I would argue that this man is God's judgment on these churches for their lack of discernment.


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## reaganmarsh (Dec 11, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> > The Associational Director expressed concern to my friend, but said that due to local church autonomy there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent, remove, or discipline this man.
> ...



That may very well be true, sir.


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## Mushroom (Dec 11, 2013)

reaganmarsh said:


> Josh, I'm in my 16th year in SBC ministry and I'm not sure.
> 
> I recently spoke with a friend from another state (another SBC minister) who told me of a man who presently pastors in his local Association. The man has served 3 other churches in that county over the last several years. At each of those 3 churches, he committed adultery and left his wife to marry the adulteress. 3 affairs, 3 resignations over the affairs, 3 divorces, 3 remarriages (he's presently on wife number 4 and serving church number 4). The Associational Director expressed concern to my friend, but said that due to local church autonomy there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent, remove, or discipline this man.
> 
> ...


Duct tape please... head beginning to explode.


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## thatbrian (Dec 15, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> discernment has fallen victim to pragmatism



Well said.


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## kodos (Dec 15, 2013)

Bill The Baptist said:


> reaganmarsh said:
> 
> 
> > The Associational Director expressed concern to my friend, but said that due to local church autonomy there is absolutely nothing he can do to prevent, remove, or discipline this man.
> ...



The Church has a duty to the People of God (at all levels, Local Session, at Presbytery, and at Synod/General Assembly), in order to make sure that these sorts of men are kept from harming Christ's sheep.
As for God's judgment, I do not pretend to speak for God, and thereby risk violating the 3rd Commandment as this is not part of anything He has revealed to us.


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## reaganmarsh (Dec 17, 2013)

Rom,

I fully agree that the Church has the duty of protecting Christ's sheep. Unfortunately, it gets very tricky in our Baptist polity, due to typical SBC practices regarding local church autonomy.


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## Bill The Baptist (Dec 17, 2013)

kodos said:


> Bill The Baptist said:
> 
> 
> > reaganmarsh said:
> ...



Unless the particular school is an actual arm of a denomination, there is not much church oversight in any Christian college or seminary, regardless of theological persuasion, and so I still fail to see what this has to do with ecclesiology. I would agree that the trustees of this school have shown gross lack of discernment with this hire, but this is certainly not unique to Baptist colleges. As far as the issue of judgment, I did not presume to speak for God, that is why I prefaced the statement by indicating that it was my opinion. I think there are some pretty clear examples in Scripture of people being given poor leadership as a judgment from God, i.e. Saul.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 17, 2013)

I have preached Chapel services for Brewton-Parker and was around the school a good bit in my time pastoring a church in the area. The school is (and has been) on the verge of financial ruin for some time. This is a striking mark of their desperation. With the exception of their Christian studies department (consisting of two professors!) the school is only nominally Christian. Most of their courses are taught with no explicit reference to or foundation in Christian doctrine and thinking.


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 17, 2013)

Marrow Man said:


> I also believe that BPC is going through some accreditation problems currently as well.



Indeed this is the case. BPC is currently on probation with SACS until their next evaluation (I know not when). If they haven't turned things around by then, they will lose their accreditation and likely have to close down. I, for one, am surprised they haven't shut down already. In the last couple of years their enrolment has been around 400! And no, I didn't accidentally leave off a zero, I said "four hundred."


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## C. M. Sheffield (Dec 17, 2013)

From the Brewton-Parker Press Release on Ergun Caner:



> “We didn’t consider Dr. Caner in spite of the attacks; we elected him because of them. He has endured relentless and pagan attacks like a warrior. We need a warrior as our next president.”



Incredible. Those Christians who brought to light serious holes in Caner's story (proving that he lied on multiple occasions) and for which Liberty effectively fired him are "pagans"?


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## ProtestantBankie (Jan 3, 2014)

You are all a bunch of Islamic-Hypercalvinists.


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## Edward (Jan 3, 2014)

ProtestantBankie said:


> You are all a bunch of Islamic-Hypercalvinists.



So do you take exception to 144 and 145 of the larger catechism?


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