# Rick Warren becomes Lordship Salvationist?



## jayce475 (May 25, 2010)

Here's an article about Rick Warren telling "fake Christians" who don't do enough to go find another church. 

Rick Warren Tells Passive, Fake Christians to Find Another Church | Christianpost.com

What do you guys make of this? Seems to me like he's placing the imperative before the indicative here.


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## Scott1 (May 25, 2010)

This is where the systematic theology of all of scripture of reformed theology helps us greatly.

What Arminian influenced, dispensational theology with no confessional basis, and a "low" view of the church and sacraments leads to is this.

Disorder, as man vainly assumes to worship God on the basis of man's imagination, man getting his needs met, man determining his own salvation.

What is sobering is to see how many might identify with Christ's Body for a while, but then fall away, proving out that they were never really His in the first place.



> John 6
> 
> 63It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
> 
> ...




Pray that this Pastor might understand, teach, and disciple based solidly on biblical truth.


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## Blue Tick (May 25, 2010)

> What do you guys make of this? Seems to me like he's placing the imperative before the indicative here.





> "Let me just be honest with you as somebody who loves you. If you passively just want to sit around in the next 10 years and just waste your life on things that won't last, you probably want to find another church because you're not going to really feel comfortable here. Because if you're in this church, *I'm coming after you to be mobilized," said the renowned southern California pastor.*


*
*
Utter nonsense on behalf of Warren...


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## raekwon (May 25, 2010)

After reading that, it just seems like he's telling his people to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance". What's the problem?


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## Semper Fidelis (May 25, 2010)

raekwon said:


> After reading that, it just seems like he's telling his people to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance". What's the problem?


 
I tried to give it the best possible construction but I can't see anywhere where (at least in the article), the 8 goals are "fruit". I think I'll look up the sermon and see if I can find out if he even grounded any of it in the Gospel.


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## AThornquist (May 25, 2010)

From the article, which may or may not have accurately represented Warren's sermon, the call to arms seems to be about people who won't work toward their goals, such as the P.E.A.C.E. plan, rather than fruit in keeping with repentance. My main concern though is that the "real" Christians must be so involved in social programs when knowing Christ and the true Gospel are not the emphasis. It's no wonder that there are so many apathetic so-called Christians there--they have been given the idea that God will work out their plans and do such great things for them and have seen only a glimpse of his glory. The truths concerning him are so simplified that it is no wonder the tares are comfortable among the wheat and even the wheat can only digest milk. Therefore, rather than mobilizing the troops (i.e. workers), they need to be as Mary and sit at the feet of Christ.

---------- Post added at 08:28 AM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 AM ----------

By the way, I don't want to be perceived as one who is criticizing Warren just because he is Rick Warren. I really do appreciate the fact that he is willing to sacrifice numbers in order to get something done; however, the painfully obvious circumstance is that the doctrines of Scripture are unknown to so many of those people. That is why I am not interested in Warren "mobilizing" them; they need to know Christ first!


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## DMcFadden (May 25, 2010)

Largely due to the influence of his wife and the introduction to national political leaders and ecumenical folks (in my opinion), Warren has been moving away from the naive pragmatism of his church growth strategy to "deepen" his approach with grand initiatives such as the PEACE plan.

It must be VERY difficult to keep one's head when you become a best selling author extraordinaire who is courted by national and international leaders. Most of us have a difficult enough time just dealing with ego in our very puny little worlds. I am no fan of Warren (and less so of Hybels). However, I pray for him and hope that he can avoid the pitfalls of becoming iconic in his own mind. Judging from the example of Billy Graham, there is a marked tendency to soften what ought not be softened and harden what not be hardened when you become THAT famous.


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## Willem van Oranje (May 25, 2010)

raekwon said:


> After reading that, it just seems like he's telling his people to "bear fruit in keeping with repentance". What's the problem?


 
As long as he's talking about the true fruits of repentance and not just expecting everyone to "get involved" in all his latest pet projects.


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## Poimen (May 25, 2010)

From the link:



> Warren directed the congregation to adopt and strengthen eight characteristics of real Christianity as found in the book of Acts. They include: supernatural power through prayer, using everybody's language and every communication channel for mission, mobilizing _everybody_ from kids to seniors, life-changing truth, loving support or fellowship, joyful worship, generous sacrifices and exponential growth.
> 
> 
> "Real Christianity uses everyone's gifts," said Warren, author of _The Purpose Driven Life_, as he rejected passive and consumer Christians. "Everybody's a minister," he stressed. In the original church, there were no audiences. Rather, everyone was a contributor and participator which led to the tremendous growth of Christianity.




Rightly understood and proclaimed I doubt most of us Reformed confessionalists would (should) have no problem with his eight goals, with the possible exception of the last one. In fact I said something similar in my sermon on Sunday. The difference between Warren's approach and that of the Reformed arise when we begin to discuss definitions and implementation of those goals.


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## Whitefield (May 25, 2010)

AThornquist said:


> That is why I am not interested in Warren "mobilizing" them; they need to know Christ first!


 
I'm sure many do.


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## AThornquist (May 26, 2010)

Whitefield said:


> AThornquist said:
> 
> 
> > That is why I am not interested in Warren "mobilizing" them; they need to know Christ first!
> ...


 
On a superficial level, that's true. The doctrines of who he is and what he has done are so simplified that they know _of_ him but don't know the Scriptures very much at all. It's the sad reality of their church model, which is what I grew up with and have personally seen the affects of.


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## Whitefield (May 26, 2010)

AThornquist said:


> Whitefield said:
> 
> 
> > AThornquist said:
> ...


 
That may be the very point Warren has finally realized and is trying to address with the message referred to in the OP.


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## Bladestunner316 (May 27, 2010)

So I guess he won't take any blame for producing 'fake' Christians of course.


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## sonlight (Jun 1, 2010)

I'm coming after you to be mobilized," said the renowned southern California pastor. Uhoh, I'm scared. 
I don't know if I am wired for that or not.


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## Whitefield (Jun 1, 2010)

Bladestunner316 said:


> So I guess he won't take any blame for producing 'fake' Christians of course.


 
Perhaps he will, but then again, we all will.


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## Caroline (Jun 1, 2010)

I dunno. To be honest, my reaction to Rick Warren is more that I find him profoundly boring than that I find him heretical. However, I can't speak to the 'heretical' thing TOO much, because I find him profoundly boring and thus difficult to pay attention to for more than 30 seconds or so. I can't imagine how he became so popular. 

And that's more or less my reaction to this article as well. *yawn* Another pastor using the name of Jesus to expand his personal empire. Seen it. Boring. _Decade of Destiny._ I'll add that one to all the other slogans I heard over the years: Year of Power, Day of Conquest, Week of Revival...

I have no use for pastors that dream big and then drive the sheep into their plans with threats of being cast out of the fold for not jumping on board. Anybody seen the documentary 'Audience of One' about the pastor who dreamed of reaching the world with movies? YouTube - Audience of One Trailer


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## KaphLamedh (Jun 1, 2010)

Time will tell. Will Warren´s theology change?
It was odd/weird enough that John Piper invited Warren.


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