# God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (but how about penal satisfaction)?



## Pergamum (Jun 11, 2014)

I am reading Spurgeon's sermon on Ezekial 33: Pleading and Encouragement

Here are portions:



> Oh, souls, can you really think that God desires your damnation? Can you be so demented as soberly to believe such a calumny? Will such a theory hold water for a single minute? After all the goodness of God to multitudes of rebellious men, can you allow such a dark thought to linger near your mind, that God can have pleasure in men's being sinners, and ultimately destroying themselves by their iniquities? Your own common-sense must teach you that the good God is grieved to see men sin, that he would be glad to see men of a better mind, and that it is sad work to him to punish the finally obstinate and impenitent. He cries most plaintively "Oh, do not this abominable thing that I hate." He puts it here as a question of wonderment, that men should so grossly malign him as to think that the God of love could have any pleasure in men's perishing by their sins.






> But still, as if to end for ever the strange and ghastly supposition that God takes delight in human destruction, my third text seals the truth with the solemn oath of the Eternal. He lifts his hand to heaven, and swears; and because he can swear by no greater he swears by himself,—not by his temple, nor by his throne therein, nor by his angels, nor by anything outside of himself; but he sweareth by his own life. Jehovah that liveth for ever and ever saith, "As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live." The man who dares to doubt the oath of God will be guilty of an arrogant presumption which I would not like to impute to one of you. Shall God be perjured? I tremble at having even suggested such a thing; and yet if you do not believe the Lord's own oath you will not only have made him a liar, but you will have denied the value of his oath when he swears by his own life.



How do we distinguish (if we should) the difference between God delighting in the destruction of sinners and the "penal satisfaction" of justice being done. Is God satisfied by the punishment of sinners in hell - it would appear so or else the sinner has the ability to rob God of satisfaction (as if he could shake his fist at God even from hell). It is not as if God is left eternally discontent by His creatures' refusal to obey Him. 

How would you preach this text (Ezekial 33)? What advice would you give?


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## MW (Jun 11, 2014)

Pergamum said:


> How would you preach this text (Ezekial 33)? What advice would you give?



In the concrete, the prophet is speaking about the wicked turning from his evil ways. If he turns he shall live. The oath is then given to assure the penitent that God is serious and sincere in offering life to them. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked who turns from his evil ways. It is not a statement that applies absolutely to all wicked men, but only to those who turn from their evil ways that they might live.

In the abstract, the fundamental idea of government is to secure its honour, protect life, and maintain peace. Punishment is consequential to the introduction of something which threatens this. God, as moral governor, takes no pleasure in the misery of the creature considered simply as His creature. As governor, however, He takes pleasure in protecting life and maintaining peace on righteous grounds, and so He does take pleasure in the execution of righteous judgment against the wicked because it vindicates His honour and carries out His wise and holy purpose. See Ps. 135 for some clear examples of God taking pleasure in His just judgment of wicked men.


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## Dearly Bought (Jun 11, 2014)

armourbearer said:


> Pergamum said:
> 
> 
> > How would you preach this text (Ezekial 33)? What advice would you give?
> ...



Rev. Winzer, would you then find Thomas Manton's words to be a helpful summary?


> "...as it is the destruction of the creature, so God doth not any way approve of it, though, as a just punishment, he delighteth in it."


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## Matthew1344 (Jun 11, 2014)

> In the concrete, the prophet is speaking about the wicked turning from his evil ways. If he turns he shall live. The oath is then given to assure the penitent that God is serious and sincere in offering life to them. God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked who turns from his evil ways. It is not a statement that applies absolutely to all wicked men, but only to those who turn from their evil ways that they might live.



I've been really struggling with this verse. Thank you for saying this ... I will continue to pray and think about this


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## MW (Jun 11, 2014)

Dearly Bought said:


> Rev. Winzer, would you then find Thomas Manton's words to be a helpful summary?
> 
> 
> > "...as it is the destruction of the creature, so God doth not any way approve of it, though, as a just punishment, he delighteth in it."



Very helpful, so far as the abstract is concerned. I can't recall whether Manton brings out the conditional nature of the passage in terms of the preceptive will of God. I know he does in other contexts, where he carefully distinguishes between the preceptive and decretive and shows how they are not contradictory.


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## MW (Jun 11, 2014)

Matthew1344 said:


> I've been really struggling with this verse. Thank you for saying this ... I will continue to pray and think about this



You might also find Calvin's Institutes helpful:



> Now, if the genuine meaning of the prophet is inquired into, it will be found that he only means to give the hope of pardon to them who repent. The sum is, that God is undoubtedly ready to pardon whenever the sinner turns. Therefore, *he does not will his death*, *in so far as he wills repentance*. But experience shows that this will, for the repentance of those whom he invites to himself, is not such as to make him touch all their hearts. Still, it cannot be said that he acts deceitfully; for though the external word only renders those who hear it, and do not obey it, inexcusable, it is still truly regarded as an evidence of the grace by which he reconciles men to himself. Let us therefore hold the doctrine of the prophet, that God has no pleasure in the death of the sinner; that the godly may feel confident that whenever they repent God is ready to pardon them; and that the wicked may feel that their guilt is doubled, when they respond not to the great mercy and condescension of God. The mercy of God, therefore, will ever be ready to meet the penitent; but all the prophets, and apostles, and Ezekiel himself, clearly tell us who they are to whom repentance is given.


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## Matthew1344 (Jun 12, 2014)

Armorbearer isn't what Calvin said different than what you said? Sorry if I am
Mistaken.


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## MW (Jun 12, 2014)

Matthew1344 said:


> Armorbearer isn't what Calvin said different than what you said? Sorry if I am
> Mistaken.



It's about as different as armorbearer is from armourbearer. 

He is saying that the declaration applies to the turning sinner, which is essentially what I was trying to say. It is not a statement that applies absolutely and simply to the wicked as wicked.


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