# Where did Chrysostom say this?



## NaphtaliPress (Jul 13, 2008)

In one of his sermons, Samuel Rutherford cites Chrysostom as saying "men believe not what they know, but what they will, and will is half playmaker in their faith." I'm not sure if the last bit is R's addition or part of C's original statement. Any way, I was hoping PB's resident patristic scholars might be able to provide a source? Any help is much appreciated. I'm assuming it comes from his homilies somewhere; Rutherford immediately cites 2 Peter 3:5.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 13, 2008)

bump


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## py3ak (Jul 14, 2008)

I hunted through NPNF series 1 (Ages) with the search function but couldn't find it. Of course, Rutherford wouldn't have used that edition, and it doesn't include all of Chrysostom so that search is not definitive by any means. But I found a really good dead end.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 14, 2008)

I've been sifting the the NPNCF series and can't find it. I don't think Chrysostom wrote on 2 Peter.


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## DMcFadden (Jul 14, 2008)

I did a complete Libronix search and could not find it. Sorry.


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks all; I appreciate the effort. The difficulty is it is not a direct quotation, and as surmised already, it may be untranslated in the church fathers.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 14, 2008)

Perhaps someone who reads Latin can search any older Latin translations? That is probably what Rutherford read. Or perhaps Greek?


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 14, 2008)

I see also now that the reference may be to Jeremiah 9:6; Chrysostom does have homilies on Jeremiah I think; worth a look.


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 14, 2008)

"Playmaker" is an archaic word meaning playwright or dramatist. May help... 

playmaker - Definitions from Dictionary.com


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## Puritan Sailor (Jul 14, 2008)

Could you include a fuller quote from Rutherford to see the quote in context?


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 14, 2008)

Sure; that may be helpful.
Assertion Two. The will and affections have a dominion over conscience in many things; in that,
(1) There is a covenant between conscience and concupiscence, while (as Chrysostom says) men believe not what they know, but what they will, and will is half playmaker in their faith; of this they are willingly ignorant (2 Pet. 3:5), excellently it is said, [hebrew] _in deceit they refuse to know me, saith the Lord _(Jer. 9:6). The will has a pack-pull on the mind. Light and malice, mind and will, are woven through [each] other; the will's malice sours and leavens the mind's light, as rotten matter mixed with good wine overmasters it, and takes taste and color from it.​


Puritan Sailor said:


> Could you include a fuller quote from Rutherford to see the quote in context?


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## DTK (Jul 14, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Thanks all; I appreciate the effort. The difficulty is it is not a direct quotation, and as surmised already, it may be untranslated in the church fathers.


Yes, it seems to me that Rutherford was paraphrasing Chrysostom's thought rather than quoting him. To the best of my knowledge there is only a single homily on Jeremiah by Chrysostom that is beyond dispute, and that is Jer. 10:23, of which I have a translation. I appreciate your effort to provide in Rutherford's work the passage of Chrysostom he had in mind, but I doubt very seriously you will succeed in discovering what the source is beyond a reasonable doubt. I am certainly no patristic scholar, but I do have a number of Chrysostom's works not found in the Eerdman's set (another 9 vols.); and to be honest, with no more to go on than what you've provided I would be hard pressed to find it. I read your citation from Rutherford below, but as I said already I would need more on which to go. 


Puritan Sailor said:


> Perhaps someone who reads Latin can search any older Latin translations? That is probably what Rutherford read. Or perhaps Greek?


Chrysostom's works are, to be sure, preserved in Greek. Any preservation of his works in Latin are immediately suspect, such as (for example) the Incomplete Commentary on Matthew ascribed to him, but not to be confused with his sermons on Matthew preserved in Greek. But with that comment, some of his works were preserved in Latin translations.

DTK


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks David; that's discouraging to hear since I'm trying to track as much down as possible in editing the sermon. I have another couple of toughies I may post this PM; maybe they will actually be easier?


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## DTK (Jul 14, 2008)

NaphtaliPress said:


> Thanks David; that's discouraging to hear since I'm trying to track as much down as possible in editing the sermon. I have another couple of toughies I may post this PM; maybe they will actually be easier?



Chris, I regard myself as very motivated to provide you whatever assistance I'm able to offer, particularly because of my own personal fascination with patristic studies. If you do offer some more "toughies," I'll make every effort to help you track them down, if for no other reason than my own curiosity.

What is Rutherford's work, sermon topic, text? 

DTK


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## NaphtaliPress (Jul 14, 2008)

Thanks very much David; I do appreciate it. I have posted two threads of two other matters from the same sermon, which is Rutherford's fast sermon before the House of Commons, January 31, 1643/44. I published the text of all the Fast Sermons by the Scottish Commissioners to the Westminster Assembly in the old Naphtali Press _Anthology of Presbyterian & Reformed Literature _back in volume 1 in 1988. I was pretty wet behind the ears still; they were my first publishing projects. I am now (finally) reworking them into a single volume which I would like to appear in the NP _17th Century Presbyterians_ series. I have edited the sermons over the years but did not expect the Rutherfords to be as rough still as they are; but so it goes. This should be a superior text to the earlier endeavor if I can get it to print, DV.



DTK said:


> NaphtaliPress said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks David; that's discouraging to hear since I'm trying to track as much down as possible in editing the sermon. I have another couple of toughies I may post this PM; maybe they will actually be easier?
> ...


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## Neogillist (Jul 14, 2008)

From that quotation by Chrysostom you could probably pick up his semi-Pelagianism. Indeed, both Luther and Calvin disliked John Chrysostom and Jerome for their semi-Pelagianism, although both sided with Augustine rather than embracing Pelagius' ideas. In "The Bondage of the Will" Luther even goes as far as saying that Jerome should have gone to hell rather than being proclaimed a saint!


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