# Mark Virckler



## gene_mingo

*Mark Virkler*

My father has asked if My wife and I would be interested in watching the study group DVD "Hearing the Voice of God" by Mark Virkler.

I had never heard of him. I spent the last couple of hours researching him online. At this point I am going to tell my father that my wife and I will not be watching this with him, but I need to solidify my response to him. 

If you have had any experience with this before or his group, would you please share what you know.

And please pray for me. I am trying my best to honor my father with my response to him and this point I am really struggling with how to express my concern for him without being overly confrontational.


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## CredoFidoSpero

Do you mean Mark _Virkler_, Communion With God Ministries?


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## gene_mingo

CredoFidoSpero said:


> Do you mean Mark _Virkler_, Communion With God Ministries?



yes I do, thank you, I will edit accordingly.


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## chbrooking

I have no experience with MV, so my advice may not be what you seek. But I can tell you that my family would have nothing to do with CWG ministries, and if I were in your situation, I'd go to Heb 1:1-2. God has spoken finally and definitively in his son. He used to give our fathers piecemeal and partial revelations of himself, but now God has given a final and perfect revelation of himself in his son. And since this revelation is perfectly recorded and interpreted (Jude 3), I do not desire to be taught any other method of hearing him than that of the Holy Spirit speaking in the Bible. The notion that we need individualized revelation is egotistical in the extreme, and very misguided. God has not left our minds unredeemed, so that we need individual instructions for each and every action. What we need to do is get to know God word. 

That's how I'd respond if my dad asked me. But someone with more particular knowledge of this "ministry" may be able to better advise you.


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## Poimen

Having perused the website let me say this: personal revelation from the Holy Spirit (IF there is such a thing to be had) should not COST $19.99 or any other amount. (cf. Acts 8:20).


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## gene_mingo

chbrooking said:


> I have no experience with MV, so my advice may not be what you seek. But I can tell you that my family would have nothing to do with CWG ministries, and if I were in your situation, I'd go to Heb 1:1-2. God has spoken finally and definitively in his son. He used to give our fathers piecemeal and partial revelations of himself, but now God has given a final and perfect revelation of himself in his son. And since this revelation is perfectly recorded and interpreted (Jude 3), I do not desire to be taught any other method of hearing him than that of the Holy Spirit speaking in the Bible. The notion that we need individualized revelation is egotistical in the extreme, and very misguided. God has not left our minds unredeemed, so that we need individual instructions for each and every action. What we need to do is get to know God word.
> 
> That's how I'd respond if my dad asked me. But someone with more particular knowledge of this "ministry" may be able to better advise you.



I had written down Hebrews 1:1-2 as part of my response. Thank you for the reference to Jude.

-----Added 5/16/2009 at 05:23:13 EST-----



Poimen said:


> Having perused the website let me say this: personal revelation from the Holy Spirit (IF there is such a thing to be had) should not COST $19.99 or any other amount. (cf. Acts 8:20).




Great point. Thank You.


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## CredoFidoSpero

I don't have any personal experience with him or his ministry, I was curious and looked it up on the web when I saw your question. I do have personal experience with very similar teachings and practices in charismatic churches I have attended in the past. And I agree with the points made above. From the website, he clearly is teaching a method of a personal, subjective, experiential way of 'hearing' God that I don't believe is Biblical or wise. 

The marketing aspect is truly unsavory, as Daniel pointed out. I mean, "for $1 a day" I can have my own 'Personal Spiritual Trainer" via "phone or email." Hardly the model of Christian fellowship and accountability we see modeled in the New Testament. I think Clark said it best above - what we need to do is get to know 
God's word; and I would add ongoing, close fellowship and accountability in a local church.

While there are examples of God giving an individual specific guidance in the Bible, such as Peter's dream about unclean animals in Acts 10, even as a non-cessationist (which I still am at this point), I have deep concern about someone trying to teach a "simple, 4-step method" to "learning" how to hear God this way all the time. 

And from the website (http://www.cluonline.com/Hear-Gods-Voice-3.htm):



> Prayer is exciting when God does most of the talking.
> Ecclesiastes 5:2 (paraphrased)



and



> God’s promises to those who hear His voice
> 
> Deuteronomy 28:1-14 offers an amazing picture of what God has in store for you when you hear and obey His voice.



I'm frankly speechless at that paraphrase of Ecc. 5:2. Read it yourself and see what you think.

But I think I can say fairly confidently that those promises Deut. 28 are on the condition of: "if you diligently obey the LORD your God, being careful to do all His commandments which I command you today" as it says in verse 1. In other words, obeying His commandments in scripture. 

If that's how he uses scripture on what are basically advertising blurbs, I think you have absolutely good grounds for not wanting to hear any more.

I also sympathize with wanting to still honor your father in how you respond to him on this, and I will pray that you find the best way to speak the truth in love and with respect.


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## gene_mingo

Ashley,
Thank you for your prayer and insights. I did examine the verses you mentioned. You are correct, his paraphrase is very bad. 

I will definitely include Ecclesiastes 5: 2-7 in my response.


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## gene_mingo

here is the first draft of my response to my father. If you have any suggestions please let me know. (sorry the spacing is weird from the cut and paste)

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When you first asked me to watch a DVD series by Mark Virckler, I was very optimistic about getting together as a family and studying the word of God. I decided to research his ministry online. I was a bit shocked and amazed by what I found.

I went to his website1 to see what he had to say about himself and his ministry. I quickly became uneasy from what I was reading. It became apparent rather quickly that Mr. Virckler was pushing his own new brand of New Age meditation techniques. Having spent some time around people who made a living from channeling, ghost writing, etc. I recognized the buzz words he was using. I found it shocking that he didn't even change some of the terminology. The proof texts he uses to defend his practices are so grossly taken out of context that I found it rather insulting, like I wouldn't even bother to check what he was saying. 

1 Timothy 6:20
20 O Timothy, guard what has been entrusted to you, avoiding worldly and empty chatter and the opposing arguments of what is falsely called "knowledge"


Let us examine the description for one of his courses:

This module teaches a series of seven specific prayers that will break bondages within your heart caused by spiritual forces. These prayers include breaking generational sins and curses; severing ungodly soul ties; removing negative beliefs and inner vows; healing traumatic scenes; and casting out demonic energy that has connected itself to these inner wounds of the heart and soul. The entire healing process is sealed by doing an intensive meditation on biblical passages that bear on the issues being healed so God can grant you illumined insights from His Word.2

Look at some of the New Age buzz words he uses:
soul ties
negative beliefs
demonic energy
inner wounds

The formula of seven specific prayers is taken, not from the bible, but from Hinduism. This is called a mantra. 

In the Indian religions, a mantra (Devanāgarī मन्त्र) is a sound, syllable, word, or group of words that are considered capable of "creating transformation"3 

Notice how in his course description it is the “prayers that will break the bondages within your heart”, this places the power on the words spoken. Once this healing takes place, then “God can grant you illumined insights”. This is clearly not a biblical principal. He has shifted the power of healing 


from God/Christ to a formulaic grouping of human uttered words. 

His choice of the word “demonic energy” is New Age as well.

We humans are a most delightful m\aelange of energy patterns or selves. Some of these energies are familiar and comfortable, some are curious or unfamiliar, and some are downright distasteful. In this chapter we will examine the development of the latter energies-our disowned selves-and their effect on our lives. Disowned selves are energy patterns that have been partially or totally excluded from our lives. They can range from being angelically spiritual, creative, and mystical to being lustful, selfish, and even demonic.4 


DEMONIC ENERGIES & ENTITIES
September 8, 2006

There are times I feign ignorance--briefly or for longer periods of time--when I sense doing so would be in the best interest of one who has requested my time. Conniving, trickster demonic entities attempt to hide their presence and gain the upper hand when in the presence of those who may have the ability to dislodge them. Some times in such cases they think they've "pulled the wool over my eyes" when the opposite is indeed the case. They may be able to deceive their host humans but not so in the case of experienced spiritual healers--not often and not for long, anyway.

The subject of demonic entities is too broad to discuss in-depth here, but a little bit about how they are created is in order. When one becomes angry, one creates demonic energy, which usually quickly dissipates. However, when one holds the anger for longer periods of time, and when the anger is intense, the energy hangs around its creator. Worse than that, like attracts like, so more powerful demonic energy is attracted; thus, the demonic energy continues to build. Once entrenched with one human for a lengthy period of time, it is more difficult to dislodge. As the reader may be aware, it can take over the consciousness of its host human to some degree.5


The bible clearly addresses how to defend our selves from the devil.

Ephesians 6: 10-17
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might.
11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil.
12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places.
13 Therefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm.
14 Stand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS,
15 and having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE;
16 in addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one.


17 And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. 

Acts 17:11
11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thessalonica, for they received the word with great eagerness, examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.

The bible makes no mention to a specific seven prayer formula for healing.

From Mark Vircklers website:

This 40-page booklet is a revision of our earlier booklet, “The Baptism in the Holy Spirit.” We have doubled the size and added extensive practical teaching on how to be baptized in the Holy Spirit6

The booklet only costs $5. What does the bible say about paying for this kind of knowledge?

Acts 8: 18-21
18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was bestowed through the laying on of the apostles' hands, he offered them money,
19 saying, "Give this authority to me as well, so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit."
20 But Peter said to him, "May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money!
21 "You have no part or portion in this matter, for your heart is not right before God.

After looking through his course material, I wanted to see who he associated with. I had already become very leery from what I had found so it was of no surprise that I found him rubbing shoulders with other questionable teachers.

In his outstanding links section, under Prophetic Ministries:

Rick Joyner. MorningStar Ministries

Here is what Rick Joyner has to say about the accuracy of modern day prophets.

"Bob [Jones] was told that
the general level of prophetic revelation in the church was
about 65% accurate at this time. Some are only about 10%
accurate, a very few of the most mature prophets are
approaching 85% to 95% accuracy. Prophecy is increasing in
purity, but there is still a long way to go for those who
walk in this ministry. This is actually grace for the church
now, because 100% accuracy in this ministry will bring a
level of accountability to the church, which she is too
immature to bear at this time; it would result in too many 'Ananias and
Sapphiras.' That so many the (sic) prophetic



ministries are still missing so much is also meant to work
humility and wisdom in them so that they will be able to
handle the authority and power coming in the near
future.”7

Here is what the bible says about prophecy.

Deuteronomy 18: 20-22
20 'But the prophet who speaks a word presumptuously in My name which I have not commanded him to speak, or which he speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet shall die.'
21 "You may say in your heart, 'How will we know the word which the LORD has not spoken?'
22 "When a prophet speaks in the name of the LORD, if the thing does not come about or come true, that is the thing which the LORD has not spoken The prophet has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid of him.



Rick Joyner must be held accountable to the word of God. If we held him and those of his ministry to the biblical standard, then they should be put to death.


Rick Joyner has directly contradicted the bible with his message.

Galatians 1: 6-9
6 I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
7 which is really not another; only there are some who are disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
9 As we have said before, so I say again now, if any man is preaching to you a gospel contrary to what you received, he is to be accursed! 

Rick Joyner has been publicly endorsed by Mark Virkler as a leader in prophetic ministry. The biblical standard for prophecy has been rejected by Rick Joyner. Mark Virckler is endorsing false prophets. Mark Virckler is not acting as a Berean and searching the scriptures to test these men and women whom he is endorsing. 


He has a whole section of links devoted to Egalitarianism. Without going into any one specific link, they all have the same premise. The rejection of the clear teaching of the bible on the role of women in leadership positions within the church. This to me is further evidence of Mark Vircklers rejection of core biblical doctrine. He claims to hold to orthodox christianity, but none of his ideas are 


orthodox. He has come up with a mixture of new age and liberal doctrine and is passing it off as christian.

While I have only scratched the surface of his ministry, I have seen all I need to make a good judgment as to whether my family should be exposed to his teaching. God has spoken through His word. There is no special group of words or formula to unlock Gods word. It is the Holy Spirit who has been given to all believers that guides us in the word of God. My goal is not to offend you or be confrontational on this issue. I do however make a firm stand on the bible and its authority on the doctrine of salvation and the church. Please consider these words in the spirit they are given. That it is my only desire to follow the word of God and test the doctrines of men by that word. I love you very much and hope that this does not become a point of argument within our family.


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## Berean

CredoFidoSpero said:


> Do you mean Mark _Virkler_, Communion With God Ministries?



You might want to correct the spelling of his surname in your response. Just sayin' ...


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## gene_mingo

Berean said:


> CredoFidoSpero said:
> 
> 
> 
> Do you mean Mark _Virkler_, Communion With God Ministries?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> You might want to correct the spelling of his surname in your response. Just sayin' ...
Click to expand...


Thank you. I do appreciate the correction.


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## CredoFidoSpero

Thanks so much for sharing your response. I like how you made your points.


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