# WSC Means of Grace Conference



## R. Scott Clark (Jan 14, 2006)

The Westminster Seminary Conference began last night. The chapel was packed last night with 300 folks present. 

Mike Horton got out of his sick bed to give an excellent over-view of what the sacraments are and aren't. 

Hywel Jones was brilliant. You must hear this. Anyone not moved by the power of his lecture/sermon must be heartless. He is the living embodiment of the spirit of John Owen.

Conference information is here: http://www.wscal.edu/newsevents/mgoht.php

rsc


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## fredtgreco (Jan 14, 2006)

Scott,

Are these being recorded? Will it be possible to get MP3s?


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> Scott,
> 
> Are these being recorded? Will it be possible to get MP3s?



I don't know about MP3's, but we are making CD's available. See:

http://www.wscal.edu/newsevents/mgoht.php



> AUDIO RECORDINGS
> This conference will be recorded and made available as a CD only. Audio albums are available at WSC Books. Please call 760.735.BOOK (735.2665) to place your order.



We're still upgrading the new website. I know the plan is to be able to offer MP3's, but we're not there yet. If someone wants to donate the funds so we can hire the necessary staff.....

rsc


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 14, 2006)

Awesome! Can't wait to get the CD's of this. Keep up the good work of defending the faith against postmodern re-hashed heresy.


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 14, 2006)

> _Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia_
> Awesome! Can't wait to get the CD's of this. Keep up the good work of defending the faith against postmodern re-hashed heresy.



The conference went very well. Attendance was great. The singing was terrific. We had "break out" sessions with Darryl (DG) Hart, Bryan Estelle, Iain Duguid, and Dennis Johnson early. I spoke at 10:50 on "Baptism and the Benefits," a response to the FV claim that baptism unites every baptized person head for head to Christ, makes them temporarily (or permanently?) elect, and confers on them provisionally all of Christ's benefits to be retained by trusting and obeying. 

David Van Drunen defended infant baptism very ably and clearly from the Scriptures and Bob Godfrey gave a thoughtful and moving account of the Supper as both a communal meal and the means by which Christ feeds us on his true body and blood.

The Q & A was fun. I made fun of Bob's lack of stature and he made fun of me. Hywel Jones was brilliant and we all made fun of Mike. 

I hope the CD's are edifying.

rsc


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## Robin (Jan 14, 2006)

GOooooo, Dr. Clark!!

Can't wait to get updated with the CD's.



Robin


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 15, 2006)

I look forward to hearing it as well, especially after looking through the scheduled talks. While I plan to order it regardless, did (m)any of them give much time or focus to arguing from Scripture for the strictly communal nature of the Supper and its clerical administration?


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## BrianBowman (Jan 15, 2006)

Dr. Clark,

Can WSC make these audio files downloadable, instead of having to order the CD and receive it via SNAIL Mail?


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## Ivan (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> The Westminster Seminary Conference began last night. The chapel was packed last night with 300 folks present.
> 
> Mike Horton got out of his sick bed to give an excellent over-view of what the sacraments are and aren't.
> ...



After looking at the website it appears that the only way to order the CDs is by phone. Is that correct? Do you know if they accept a Visa debit card?

I must admit that I'm very interested in the subjects covered. I do want to understand, as a Baptist, the views of my other brothers in Christ. Do you believe these CDs will cover the subjects of infant baptism and communion clearly? Or is there books that may be better for my understanding.

Thanks!


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> ...



Dr Van Drunen gave a defense of infant baptism and Dr Godfrey discussed the Reformed doctrine of the Lord's Supper - both of these lectures are introductory surveys, however, of about 55 minutes so please don't take them as the complete picture, but they are quite good. 

There is much more to be read, to be sure. Start with book 4 of Calvin's Institutes! 

Witsius is quite good on the sacraments too.

Yes, you can order by phone. I'm not in the business office, but I think we can process credit card orders. 

Blessings,

rsc


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## Mayflower (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by fredtgreco_
> ...



Dear Mr. Clark,

Iam very interessed! How are much are these cd's including shipping to the Netherlands ?


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## Robin (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Ivan_
> ... I'm very interested in the subjects covered. I do want to understand, as a Baptist, the views of my other brothers in Christ. Do you believe these CDs will cover the subjects of infant baptism and communion clearly? Or is there books that may be better for my understanding.
> Thanks!



Ivan,

Meanwhile, here are some Reformed sermons about the sacraments - extensive clarification about baptism/Lord's Supper. Scroll down to "sacraments."

http://www.christreformed.org/resources/index.shtml?main

Enjoy!

Robin


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## WrittenFromUtopia (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Robin_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Ivan_
> ...





Well needed in an age of false teaching and ambiguity.


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Mayflower_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> ...



Ralph,

I don't know. Contact Henry Doorn at [email protected] and he can help you.

blessings,

rsc


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Me Died Blue_
> I look forward to hearing it as well, especially after looking through the scheduled talks. While I plan to order it regardless, did (m)any of them give much time or focus to arguing from Scripture for the strictly communal nature of the Supper and its clerical administration?



Bob Godfrey did discuss the communal nature of the supper. I don't remember him discussing clerical administration. He did work with Luke and the Upper Room discourse, which he tied to the supper as well as John 6 and other passages.

rsc


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## Me Died Blue (Jan 15, 2006)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by Me Died Blue_
> ...



Thanks. While we're on this, what particular works (sermons, lectures, articles, books, etc.) would you particularly recommend for Scriptural defense of those things (i.e. clerical administration and communal nature of the sacraments)?

While I've read enough to be convinced of it myself, the thought processes of our minds when silently reading and thinking on such things, and our brain's ability to make such connections all at once, is of course much faster and able than is our ability to immediately explain and lay-out verbally all those connections and arguments to an equally effective extent. Thus, I'm trying to become more familiar with the topic to the extent that I can effectively defend it in verbal dialog with someone right now.


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## Ivan (Jan 16, 2006)

Thanks to Dr. Clark and Robin for their kind recommendations! I think I'll take a look at Robin's link and then take the plunge and order Calvin's Institues. I have intended to do that for some time now.

I am "very" Baptist, but I want to understand my other Calvinistic brethren. Who knows where it might lead. I'll tell you this, Reformed churches of any kind are far and few between in this area. It's shame!

Thanks again!


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 16, 2006)

> Thanks. While we're on this, what particular works (sermons, lectures, articles, books, etc.) would you particularly recommend for Scriptural defense of those things (i.e. clerical administration and communal nature of the sacraments)?



I'm not sure that I can point to works directly on these points. It's a broader point, about the legitimacy of offices etc. This would lead to literature on the offices. See Derke Bergsma's essay in J Armstrong's The Compromised Church; M. Brown has a collection of essays on office in the church too. See my essay on the church on my website for some bibliographic leads:
http://public.csusm.edu/guests/rsclark/Ecclesiology.htm

rsc


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## Robin (Jan 16, 2006)

FYI...

Here are the titles of Kim Riddlebarger's lectures on the Sacraments:

Lecture 1 - Introduction: The Issues at Stake

Lecture 2 - The Covenantal Context for Discussing the Sacraments

Lecture 3A - The Biblical Case for Infant Baptism 

Lecture 3B - The Biblical Case for Infant Baptism

Lecture 4 - Baptist Objections to Infant Baptism and the Reformed Response

Lecture 5A - "The Lord's Supper" - Confessional and Biblical Concerns

Lecture 5B - "The Lord's Supper" - Confessional and Biblical Concerns

"Fathers -- Instruct Your Children" - The Importance and Practice of Catechism

http://www.christreformed.org/resources/index.shtml?main

(scroll down to "Sacraments" - free online reading)

Be edified!

R.


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## RamistThomist (Jan 16, 2006)

Does Pastor Riddlebarger have any downloadable audio distinct from the White Horse Inn?


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 19, 2006)

> _Originally posted by R. Scott Clark_
> Hywel Jones was brilliant. You must hear this. Anyone not moved by the power of his lecture/sermon must be heartless. He is the living embodiment of the spirit of John Owen.
> 
> rsc


Great stuff.

Hywel Jones preached at our Church a few times as pulpit supply. He is a great preacher.

I always loved the way he prounounced Isaiah (he's Scottish for those who don't know).

Whenever I pretend to be Hywel Jones I say: "Shall we open our Bibles to the Book of Eye-ZY-ah..."


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## Steve Owen (Jan 20, 2006)

> _Originally posted by SemperFideles_
> 
> Hywel Jones preached at our Church a few times as pulpit supply. He is a great preacher.
> 
> ...



Rich,
That's like saying that a Canadian is a Mexican! 
Hywel Jones is *Welsh*, boyo!

But your right about how we pronounce Isaiah. Altogether now 

'You say Ay-Zay-ah, I say Eye-ZY-ah
Ay-Zay-ah, Eye-Zy-ah,
Eye-Zy-ah, Ay-Zay-ah;
Let's call the whole thing off! 

BTW, the blurb on the conference link said that Jones was ordained into the Welsh Presbyterian Church (aka The Calvinistic Methodists). No doubt he was, but I would be very surprised indeed if he has anything to do with them today. That denomination, which was uniquely blessed with one revival after another in its hey-day, is now almost completely liberal and all its best congregations, like the Heath Church in Cardiff, have left.

Martin


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## Semper Fidelis (Jan 20, 2006)

> _Originally posted by Martin Marprelate_
> 
> 
> > _Originally posted by SemperFideles_
> ...



I thought his accent sounded Scottish. I hope he doesn't read this forum!

In my defense, the accents are pretty close. It's more apt to say somebody from Canada was from Minnesota. Canadian and Mexican accents are pretty far apart.

Like I said to my Dad in 1976 when we move to Alabama at age 8 (and is appropriate to you folks in the UK): "They talk funny..."


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## R. Scott Clark (Jan 26, 2006)

Here are some photos from the conference:

http://www.wscal.edu/newsevents/mgohtreport.php

rsc


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