# Jonathan Edwards: Amyraldian?



## JM (Apr 6, 2009)

I'm listening to a talk found on the Norwich Reformed Church website, the title, "Jonathan Edwards: Amyraldian?"


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## Marrow Man (Apr 6, 2009)

That's not surprising. The Marrowmen were also accused of Amyraldianism.


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## Whitefield (Apr 6, 2009)

_On the Freedom of the Will_ Part IV, Sect. XIV
in _The Works of Jonathan Edwards_ Vol. 1, page 88.



> From these things it will inevitably follow, that however Christ in some sense may be said to die for all, and to redeem all visible Christians, yea, the whole world, by his death; yet there must be something particular in the design of his death, with respect to such as he intended should actually be saved thereby. As appears by what has been now shown, God has the actual salvation or redemption of a certain number in his proper absolute design, and of a certain number only; and therefore such a design only can be prosecuted in any thing God does, in order to the salvation of men. God pursues a proper design of the salvation of the elect in giving Christ to die, and prosecutes such a design with respect to no other, most strictly speaking; for it is impossible, that God should prosecute any other design than only such as he has: he certainly does not, in the highest propriety and strictness of speech, pursue a design that he has not. And, indeed, such a particularity and limitation of redemption will as infallibly follow, from the doctrine of God s foreknowledge, as from that of the decree. For it is as impossible, in strictness of speech, that God should prosecute a design, or aim at a thing, which he at the same time most perfectly knows will not be accomplished, as that he should use endeavours for that which is beside his decree.


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## DonP (Apr 6, 2009)

JE sounds like our Joshua here. 

Although in the beginning he may just be wrestling with others who wanted to say Christ died for all. 
So he entertains the thought for them then disputes it. 

God is the savior of the world. The whole world. The only one for this world. The only one for all people of all races, not just for the JEws for all people. 
He is the only savior for all peoples of the world. 

JE Amyraldian? NO!!


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## Jimmy the Greek (Apr 7, 2009)

I can't get to the OP link through my firewall here at work. But I will note one thing:

The Norwich Reformed Church in the UK and its Alan Clifford are notoriously Amyraldian and go to great extremes in attempting to prove that Amyraldism is not only an historic Reformed position, but the position of Calvin. So, buyer beware.


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## MW (Apr 7, 2009)

> For it is as *impossible*, in strictness of speech, that God should prosecute a design, or aim at a thing, which he at the same time most perfectly knows will not be accomplished, as *that he should use endeavours for that which is beside his decree*.



Now THAT is reformed theology!


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## DonP (Apr 7, 2009)

yes Bunyan and William Jay were Amyrauldians who thought Christ could not have only died for the elect or you could not honestly offer the gospel to all

Oddly Bunyan held to double predestination


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## Whitefield (Apr 7, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> yes Bunyan and William Jay were Amyrauldians who thought Christ could not have only died for the elect or you could not honestly offer the gospel to all
> 
> Oddly Bunyan held to double predestination



What does this have to do with Edwards?


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## DonP (Apr 7, 2009)

Whitefield said:


> PeaceMaker said:
> 
> 
> > yes Bunyan and William Jay were Amyrauldians who thought Christ could not have only died for the elect or you could not honestly offer the gospel to all
> ...



Amyrauldianism is not just saying Jesus died for all, it has a doctrinal basis in unlimited atonement, JE did not hold to that. 

And it is a comparison of those who held it to JE who did not. That was my thought

Is that ok ?


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## JohnOwen007 (Apr 7, 2009)

PeaceMaker said:


> Amyrauldianism is not just saying Jesus died for all, it has a doctrinal basis in unlimited atonement, JE did not hold to that.



Amyraldianism is an epithet that many misunderstand. I recommend listening to Richard Muller's recent lectures at MARS (especially the last on Hypothetical Universalism).

In a nutshell, Muller believes there are 3 types of hypothetical universalism to be found in the 16th - 17th century theology. Only one of these is Amyraldianism, and that because of its attempt to dice God's decree into decrees.


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## Marrow Man (Apr 7, 2009)

JohnOwen007 said:


> Amyraldianism is an epithet that many misunderstand. I recommend listening to Richard Muller's recent lectures at MARS (especially the last on Hypothetical Universalism).



Do you have a link for the lecture series? I went to the MARS website and did not find it listed or for sale.


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## MW (Apr 7, 2009)

Technically, an Amyraldian holds to Amyraldism, not Amyraldianism.


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## Jimmy the Greek (Apr 9, 2009)

JohnOwen007 said:


> Amyraldianism is an epithet that many misunderstand. I recommend listening to Richard Muller's recent lectures at MARS (especially the last on Hypothetical Universalism).
> 
> In a nutshell, Muller believes there are 3 types of hypothetical universalism to be found in the 16th - 17th century theology. Only one of these is Amyraldianism, and that because of its attempt to dice God's decree into decrees.



I have no doubt there are variations of hypothetical universalism. The same can be said of Arminianism. If one wants to get technical, strain gnats, and define *only one* as "strictly" the view of Moises Amyraut, Fine. I am happy to throw them all in the same unbiblical bucket called "hypothetical universalism." 

It is true that the New England Theology which followed Jonathan Edwards soon abandoned limited atonement for a universal governmental atonement. This included his own son. But I have not heard JE marshaled in support of Amyraldism or hypothetical universalism before. I'll need to see the evidence.


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