# Inappropriately Dressed in an Inappropriate Culture?



## SEAGOON (Sep 11, 2007)

Hi All,

I wasn't sure where to put this, so I put in general, my apologies if this isn't the right place.

Sorry this is a bit of a ramble, but I'm having difficulty figuring out our declining society as usual...

Let me begin with a little background. I hate Summer, not only because here in Fayetteville it gets ridiculously hot (it was 104 on Sunday at 5:45 PM for instance, and that's been about the average for our August and September) but also because the heat brings out the most ridiculously inappropriate clothing. By the time it's July, I'm longing for January because I'm thoroughly tired of living in a world of over-exposed flesh (and ubiquitous tattoos - it seems like you find more Tattoos in the check-out line at Walmart than you used to find in a Naval Yard). That and the T-Shirt slogans. As I was walking out of the Supermarket a couple of days ago, a man was walking in wearing a T-Shirt emblazoned with the catchy slogan "F**K U 2" (sadly without the asterisks on his shirt - my apologies for the Federal Vision guys who want to read the real meaty, uncensored, profanities btw) and my six year old daughter immediately began using her new-found phonics skills to decipher the new word. This led to the inevitable _"what does that mean_" question. To which I angrily answered, _"it means he's an unregenerate cad honey_" and immediately felt convicted and followed it up with a discussion of how "_that was the kind of bad word daddy used all the time before the Holy Spirit changed his heart_" on the way home. But that kind of T-Shirt and others like the one on a very young boy with his parents, "_You keep reading this shirt while I look at your b**bs_" seem to be getting almost commonplace in this town.

Anyway, the following article discusses a woman who was almost kicked off an Southwest Airlines flight by a male flight attendant for wearing clothing that was too revealing and is suing for it, but I'm struggling with what I find more surreal, that the media is incensed about it (how dare anyone impose their standards of decency in clothing!) or that the airline actually took issue with it: Thrown off plane for too-skimpy outfit - TODAY: People - MSNBC.com

To tell the truth, I've flown on flights with women wearing far more inappropriate outfits, but that's not the point. At this point, it seems like attempting, societally, to define inappropriate is becoming an impossible if not laughable exercise. It seems to me that we are societally standing waste deep in a cesspool and claiming that one particular piece of filth is what is stinking the place up. We are rapidly approaching the point where any attempt to apply standards, as a culture - _obviously not as the church of Jesus Christ_ - is becoming arbitrary and frankly ridiculous. 

My fear though is that, as always, the attitudes of the culture are seeping into the church. I think that is one of the reasons why churchgoers increasingly dress inappropriately and we are having more and more problems with the "norming" of homosexuality in the church. It's not just the world that has no clue what the difference between right and wrong is these days.

"*All the danger is when the world gets into the heart. The water is useful for the sailing of the ship; all the danger is when the water gets into the ship.*" - Thomas Watson

Your Servant in Christ,

Andy


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## MrMerlin777 (Sep 11, 2007)

I'm having a hard time figuring it out too brother. I go to a store and inevitably end up behind some kid in baggy pants showing his underwear and a wife beater t shirt with tats all over using profuse profanity (I have no idea how old he might have been, looked pretty young to me), and he goes off at me when I ask him to please watch his language because there are children and ladies present. This guy needs a good woodsheding from his old man.........


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## RamistThomist (Sep 11, 2007)

MrMerlin777 said:


> I'm having a hard time figuring it out too brother. I go to a store and inevitably end up behind some kid in baggy pants showing his underwear



That's against the law in many Louisiana towns (I know; it's imposing my morality from the church and who are we to judge?).


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## MrMerlin777 (Sep 11, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> MrMerlin777 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm having a hard time figuring it out too brother. I go to a store and inevitably end up behind some kid in baggy pants showing his underwear
> ...




OOOpppss that's right I forgot... Who are we to judge.

(Methinks I sense that Spear Dane sarcasm we all love so much.)


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## RamistThomist (Sep 11, 2007)

MrMerlin777 said:


> Spear Dane said:
> 
> 
> > MrMerlin777 said:
> ...



No sarcasm at all. We are not to impose the morality of the kingdom of the right hand (the church) onto the people of the kingdom of the left hand (secular society).

But on a serious note, a lot of people would bust a sag at the school whereat I teach. We finally started sending people home without warning. Fixed the problem immediately.


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## MrMerlin777 (Sep 11, 2007)

[/QUOTE]
....We finally started sending people home without warning. Fixed the problem immediately.[/QUOTE]

I bet it did.


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## Tim (Sep 11, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> No sarcasm at all. We are not to impose the morality of the kingdom of the right hand (the church) onto the people of the kingdom of the left hand (secular society).



Mr. Aitken, please elaborate. How do you think the church should address the problem of immorality in secular society?


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## RamistThomist (Sep 11, 2007)

Tim said:


> Spear Dane said:
> 
> 
> > No sarcasm at all. We are not to impose the morality of the kingdom of the right hand (the church) onto the people of the kingdom of the left hand (secular society).
> ...



For starters, disciplining church members who dress like that. I was being facetious. I do hold to a Two Kingdoms with regard to function, not to morality. Many people unwittingly associate morality with the domain of the church.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 11, 2007)

Ok, I wasn't really talking about what the church should or shouldn't do about it, although the answer I gave is sufficient. I was poking fun at some extreme two-kingdomites who hold to two different, simultaneously absolute (and often contradictory) moralities: right hand and left hand.


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## Tim (Sep 11, 2007)

Thanks for clarifying. Come to think of it, perhaps much could be accomplished from discipline within the church. As a friend of mine once said, he has seen people at churches and wondered what bar or dance club they were at just before the service!


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## Ivan (Sep 11, 2007)

SEAGOON said:


> I hate Summer, not only because here in Fayetteville it gets ridiculously hot (it was 104 on Sunday at 5:45 PM for instance, and that's been about the average for our August and September) but also because the heat brings out the most ridiculously inappropriate clothing. By the time it's July, I'm longing for January because I'm thoroughly tired of living in a world of over-exposed flesh (and ubiquitous tattoos - it seems like you find more Tattoos in the check-out line at Walmart than you used to find in a Naval Yard).



I hear you, Andy. I work at Wal-Mart (at least for now) and I see the same things you do. What gets me is these very attractive young ladies, well-kept, appropriately dressed, and so on, yet they have these horrible tattos. Disgusting!



> "*All the danger is when the world gets into the heart. The water is useful for the sailing of the ship; all the danger is when the water gets into the ship.*" - Thomas Watson



What a wonderful and wise quote from Watson!


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 11, 2007)

...God forgive me if I'm wrong here, but looking at the picture of the girl kicked off the plane, besides the skirt being a little too short, I don't find it offensive enough to be kicked off of a plane.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 11, 2007)

houseparent said:


> ...God forgive me if I'm wrong here, but looking at the picture of the girl kicked off the plane, besides the skirt being a little too short, I don't find it offensive enough to be kicked off of a plane.



I see worse everyday with the kids I work with. Much worse. Doesn't excuse it, of course.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 11, 2007)

Maybe I'm so used to it that I can't see it, not sure. I would not allow my daughter or the girls I work with to wear a skirt that short, but I wouldn't demand a girl who did to be removed from public transportation.


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## Ivan (Sep 11, 2007)

I haven't looked at the photo and don't plan to, but it seems a bit over the top to remove some one from an airplane.


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## PuritanCovenanter (Sep 11, 2007)

houseparent said:


> ...God forgive me if I'm wrong here, but looking at the picture of the girl kicked off the plane, besides the skirt being a little too short, I don't find it offensive enough to be kicked off of a plane.



I am just wondering if she pulled it down a little for the interview.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 11, 2007)

CredoCovenanter said:


> houseparent said:
> 
> 
> > ...God forgive me if I'm wrong here, but looking at the picture of the girl kicked off the plane, besides the skirt being a little too short, I don't find it offensive enough to be kicked off of a plane.
> ...



Maybe, and she could have been sitting in a manner unbecoming of a young lady too..who knows? But let me say though that the person wearing the foul t-shirt would have gotten an earful from me. The child wearing the shirt about a womans anatomy...that's just sad. There are so many terrible parents.


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## bookslover (Sep 11, 2007)

At 54, I'm just geezer enough to remember going to church in the late 1950s and early 1960s, when men wore suits (complete with handkerchief in the suit pocket) with neckties and dress shoes ("hard shoes" we called them in the old days) and women wore dressy dresses with hats - and gloves (sometimes). Even the kids in those days wore dress clothing (their "Sunday best").

Those days are gone forever, I suppose...


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## Ivan (Sep 11, 2007)

bookslover said:


> At 54, I'm just geezer enough to remember going to church in the late 1950s and early 1960s, when men wore suits with neckties and dress shoes ("hard shoes" we called them in the old days) and women wore dressy dresses with hats. Even the kids in those days wore dress clothing (their "Sunday best").
> 
> Those days are gone forever, I suppose...



I suppose...but I loved those days, Richard.


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## SEAGOON (Sep 12, 2007)

While I'm very grateful for the discussion, my point wasn't so much the individual incident and whether or not _we_ happen to think the skirt was too short. I trust if we polled the members of the board, about 99% would object to their wife or daughter wearing that particular outfit. 

The issue is what might be called the "Corinthianization" of our culture and the fact that we are going the way of Europe towards a point where public indecency, inappropriate dress and behavior is becoming a moot point. Profanity is common place and p0rnography is becoming mainstream. For instance, in 1969 the Jon Voight/Dustin Hoffman film "Midnight Cowboy" garnered an X rating. Despite that it won the Best Picture Oscar and three years later, with no edits whatsoever, it was re-rated with an "R". Today the film could easily run on TV with little or no editing and is tame by comparison to several sit-coms. Our society is gradually becoming so desensitized that there doesn't seem to be much of an envelope to push anymore. Well, there is one exception to that rule perhaps. Now, the only language likely to be cut from Television or Movies is any reference to "Jesus" as Savior and not as everyday blasphemy. 

As an example, the recent movie "Facing the Giants" which was produced by Sherwood Baptist Church contained no profanity, drug use, sex, or violence (other than high-school football) - growing up I can remember after-school specials that had more "adult themes" and yet it garnered a "PG". Why? Because the obvious evangelical message was considered something that young children shouldn't be exposed to without parental supervision. How long before the Gospel gets a PG-13 or even an R as "hate speech"?

So, brothers and sisters, to paraphrase another movie, censuring for "inappropriate dress" is going to become like handing tickets out at the Indy 500. And if I can make an observation, evangelicals who follow the lead of the culture rather than the theology of the bible will end up looking disturbingly like their peers. Several friends have already noted how disturbed the were by the attire at many mega-churches and not because they weren't wearing jackets and ties, but because "skin was in" there as well.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh I without a doubt get your point and I have been watching this happen for years now. As a former premil-dispensationalist I would have just attributed it to the "rapture clock" ticking away (lol). It's sad.


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## ReformedWretch (Sep 12, 2007)

Oh I without a doubt get your point and I have been watching this happen for years now. As a former premil-dispensationalist I would have just attributed it to the "rapture clock" ticking away (lol). It's sad.


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## jbergsing (Sep 12, 2007)

It's happening in our churches, as well. Every week I see young women and teenaged girls wearing dresses that are way too revealing. In fact, a pair of them sat in front of us this past Sunday right in the line of sight from where I sat to the pulpit. It bothered me so much I made a special note at the bottom of my notes that reads:


> Girls in front of us are dressed inappropriately. I need to forgive them for their ignorance of the male psychy but the matter needs to be addressed.


What is sad is I've heard parents, CHRISTIAN parents, tell their girls to 'show off their figures'. It baffles me to try to figure out why anyone, especially Christian parents, would want their teen girls put on display like that.


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## RamistThomist (Sep 12, 2007)

What not to let your daughter wear? By Al Mohler


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## Anton Bruckner (Sep 12, 2007)

*Ties that bind.*

its a good thing you guys don't live in the ultra modest and conservative NYC


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## BobVigneault (Sep 12, 2007)

I watched the video clip from the NBC newscast with Matt Lauer. They were all shocked and couldn't see what was inappropriate about her attire. Then she sat down and I could clearly see her underwear as she sat. I was thinking, 'you sanctimonious hypocrites, she just showed her underwear to much of America, before it was just a couple people in the plane." 

What's equally depressing is that THIS is what passes for news UGH!!!





CredoCovenanter said:


> houseparent said:
> 
> 
> > ...God forgive me if I'm wrong here, but looking at the picture of the girl kicked off the plane, besides the skirt being a little too short, I don't find it offensive enough to be kicked off of a plane.
> ...


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## Blueridge Believer (Sep 12, 2007)

Spear Dane said:


> What not to let your daughter wear? By Al Mohler



Thanks for that link brother. I'm not surprised by anything that the seed of the serpent wears or does. What gripes me is those who say they are the seed of the woman who dress very revealing as to incite lust.


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## puritan lad (Sep 12, 2007)

Food for thought.

Here is a woman’s bathing suit in 1900. Most people would laugh at this today (Imagine what those living then would think if they walked on a beach today.)







Here is one from 1920, when the actually started showing legs in public.

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/7/73/BathingSuit1920s.jpg

I won’t post anything beyond that, as we are all too well aware of what we have today (suits in many places are optional.). I shudder to think of what the next 50-100 years will bring, and I’m a postmillennialist.


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## DMcFadden (Sep 12, 2007)

I hesitated to jump in because I also saw the Today Show piece and agree entirely with Bawb Vēēn-yo (aka Bob Vigneault). They revealed far more on morning television that would have been seen by ANYone on the plane, even those sitting next to her.

On the larger point, I am in TOTAL agreement that we are participating in the Corinthianization of culture in America. Daily doses of Viagra commercials don't elevate the tone any either.


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