# Thoughts on street preachers



## Pergamum

I just got told that I was unevangelistic because I voiced some concerns about a self-titled street preacher preaching to assembled army troops waiting to stand in a parade.


Quote from the man: "While preaching to the soldiers today a guy came up to me and asked if i had a permit to preach to the soldiers,i told him i didnt need a permit to preach in a public park.Then he asked if i was going to give a altar call to the soldiers,i asked him where that is in the bible?Then he asked if i had some counselors for ...the soldiers?I told him salvation is of the Lord,it isnt my job to manipulate them into a decision."



The man preaches the true Gospel. Prasie God for that.



However, I am not crazy about his methodology.

Thoughts on street preachers?


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## N. Eshelman

Personally, I am not a big fan. Maybe it's just because so many street preaches are wacky-shacky. 

Rob McCurly of the Free Church of Scotland (continuing) street preaches quite frequently in his downtown. Here is an interview with his thoughts: 

[video=youtube;E93S1c6miKE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93S1c6miKE[/video]


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## AThornquist

_Personally_, because this is only a preference I am stating here, I find one-on-one conversations to be more conducive to sharing the Gospel only because the hearer can ask questions and can respond without any sort of peer pressure from friends, etc. However, perhaps that evangelist may not have any opportunity to speak with all or any of those soldiers in the future, so that preaching would have been the best option for the Gospel to be heard. While I am not at all against some forms of open-air preaching, there is a concern about the delivery. Simple things can make it insanely annoying, such as shouting through a megaphone. It sounds like this individual was pretty level-headed so I wouldn't discourage his efforts; I would only encourage personal interaction when circumstances make that possible. 

For my own part, I have never been a street preacher because I too am not crazy about the methodology. Conversation and relationships are my main evangelistic means, though I don't doubt that some may be led by the Lord to work in different ways.


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## larryjf

Since the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation I'm all for publicly preaching it, having one-on-one conversations about it, and any other method that gets the Gospel message out!


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## Kevin

I have reservations.

I am not convinced that the gospel is being communicated. The gospel (or something like it) is being shouted, or "shared", but in my observation it is rarely being communicated.


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## Claudiu

AThornquist said:


> _Personally_, because this is only a preference I am stating here, I find one-on-one conversations to be more conducive to sharing the Gospel only because the hearer can ask questions and can respond without any sort of peer pressure from friends, etc. However, perhaps that evangelist may not have any opportunity to speak with all or any of those soldiers in the future, so that preaching would have been the best option for the Gospel to be heard. While I am not at all against some forms of open-air preaching, there is a concern about the delivery. Simple things can make it insanely annoying, such as shouting through a megaphone. It sounds like this individual was pretty level-headed so I wouldn't discourage his efforts; I would only encourage personal interaction when circumstances make that possible.
> 
> For my own part, I have never been a street preacher because I too am not crazy about the methodology. Conversation and relationships are my main evangelistic means, though I don't doubt that some may be led by the Lord to work in different ways.


 
I tend to be the same way. I'm not very much of a public speaker but better at discussing things with people one-on-one.

---------- Post added at 01:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:07 PM ----------




Kevin said:


> I have reservations.
> 
> I am not convinced that the gospel is being communicated. The gospel (or something like it) is being shouted, or "shared", but in my observation it is rarely being communicated.


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## larryjf

Kevin said:


> I have reservations.
> 
> I am not convinced that the gospel is being communicated. The gospel (or something like it) is being shouted, or "shared", but in my observation it is rarely being communicated.


 
Could you explain this a bit. If you stand on a street corner and proclaim the Gospel, how is that not communicating it?


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## jambo

I would not be against street preaching but I would be against some street preachers. Sometimes I cringe when I hear some preachers whilst on other occasions a preacher may use terms few outside the church would understand. Some I have found to be quite antagonistic towards their listeners and others seem to be have been beamed onto the street corner from a different century. 

On the other hand I have heard what I considered some really good effective preachers who are able to communicate with the listeners. 

I know we are all depending on the Holy Spirit and do not put any trust in techniques, but I have found that using a sketchboard is a big advantage. I have also found that going out late at night (between 11pm-2am) is the best time. When pubs and clubs are getting and people are in no hurry to get home they will stand and talk for quite some time. Now there are some dangers at that time with drunks, gangs etc but I think it is worth it. 

In terms of 1:1 conversations being more effective, I could not agree more. However a lot of deep rewarding 1:1 conversations come with people alongside the preacher talking to the crowd individually.


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## Kevin

larryjf said:


> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have reservations.
> 
> I am not convinced that the gospel is being communicated. The gospel (or something like it) is being shouted, or "shared", but in my observation it is rarely being communicated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you explain this a bit. If you stand on a street corner and proclaim the Gospel, how is that not communicating it?
Click to expand...

 
I'll try.

For 20+ years I made my living by communication. I was a consultant, a salesman, and a sales coach/trainer. I have designed many dozens (100's?) of advertising campaigns, i have writen hundreds of pieces of copy, and I have closed 1000's of sales.

In other words, I can tell effective communication from a waste of time, from a long way off. Effective communication has several elements; a clear, understandable message. A shared "language" (In other words,'s common ground) between the messanger & the hearer. A measurable response.

Now since the power of the gospel depends on the Spirit of God, we tend to chuck out all principles of communication & say that "God will give the increase, I just have to get the word out".

The problem with this is that the means God uses is preaching. and preaching as presented in the Bible is very clearly NOT what most "street preachers".

Most SP (my observation) is not "clear & understandable" (see Stuarts comments above), nor is it in a common "language" ( people standing in line at a club have no idea what you are doing ), nor is there any measurable response What discipleship plan is there?).

If I however spend time with someone over a period of weeks, share Jesus with them, then disciple them, then all 3 of the elements of effective communication are present.

If SP "gets the word of God out" then why not just dump 100,000's of tracts from a helecopter? Would that not reach more people?


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## MRC

There was a street preacher in Calgary that got a lot of negative press and such when he was being fined by the city for being too loud. His take was that that was a battle sent by Satan to thwart his preaching the gospel. I _personally_ felt that the attention was more to do with his disrespectful choice of media (loud speaker in affluent area of the city) than his choice of what to preach. I think it glorifies our Lord _most _ when we preach the gospel when and where _it_ is most likely to be the focus of attention, rather than _us_.


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## KMK

LBC Chapter 26



> Paragraph 4. The Lord Jesus Christ is the Head of the church, in whom, by the appointment of the Father, all power for the calling, institution, order or government of the church, is invested in a supreme and sovereign manner...
> 
> Paragraph 5. In the execution of this power wherewith he is so intrusted, the Lord Jesus calls out of the world unto himself, through the ministry of his word, by his Spirit, those that are given unto him by his Father...
> 
> Paragraph 7. To each of these churches therefore gathered, according to his mind declared in his word, he has given all that power and authority, which is in any way needful for their carrying on that order in worship and discipline, which he has instituted for them to observe...
> 
> Paragraph 8. A particular church, gathered and completely organized according to the mind of Christ, consists of officers and members; and the officers appointed by Christ to be chosen and set apart by the church (so called and gathered), for the peculiar administration of ordinances, and execution of power or duty...
> 
> Paragraph 9. The way appointed by Christ for the calling of any person, fitted and gifted by the Holy Spirit, unto the office of bishop or elder in a church, is, that he be chosen thereunto by the common suffrage of the church itself;16 and solemnly set apart by fasting and prayer, with imposition of hands of the eldership of the church, if there be any before constituted therein...
> 
> Paragraph 11. Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, and approved and called by the church, may and ought to perform it.



The problem with many 'street preachers' is they are not approved and called by any particular church. That is not to say that God cannot use His gospel in spite of them.

Paragraph 5 says Jesus calls "through the ministry of his word."

According to Ames, "The ministry is an ecclesiastical function in which a man, being singled out, is responsible by special right for holy things...It is called ministry because of the power which is committed to the men of the church is a power of acting only by command of Christ and out of obedience to him alone...Ministerial power is not absolute but relative, i.e. it is not an absolute power to do anything but consists of a right whereby one has due power to do lawfully what he could not do before. Therefore it is called power of right...The right of ministry depends upon calling...Calling is an action which commits an office to someone with authority to minister." (_Marrow_; Chapter 33)

The Reformed view is Jesus calls men out of the world by way of an office of the church called 'ministry of the Word'. Ministers of the Word do not have to be pastors, but they do have to be office bearers. No man is an office bearer unless he is approved and called by the church.

Once again, that doesn't mean that God cannot use the gospel in spite of the fact it is delivered by those who are not approved and called by the church.


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## larryjf

Kevin said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have reservations.
> 
> I am not convinced that the gospel is being communicated. The gospel (or something like it) is being shouted, or "shared", but in my observation it is rarely being communicated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you explain this a bit. If you stand on a street corner and proclaim the Gospel, how is that not communicating it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll try.
> 
> For 20+ years I made my living by communication. I was a consultant, a salesman, and a sales coach/trainer. I have designed many dozens (100's?) of advertising campaigns, i have writen hundreds of pieces of copy, and I have closed 1000's of sales.
> 
> In other words, I can tell effective communication from a waste of time, from a long way off. Effective communication has several elements; a clear, understandable message. A shared "language" (In other words,'s common ground) between the messanger & the hearer. A measurable response.
> 
> Now since the power of the gospel depends on the Spirit of God, we tend to chuck out all principles of communication & say that "God will give the increase, I just have to get the word out".
> 
> The problem with this is that the means God uses is preaching. and preaching as presented in the Bible is very clearly NOT what most "street preachers".
> 
> Most SP (my observation) is not "clear & understandable" (see Stuarts comments above), nor is it in a common "language" ( people standing in line at a club have no idea what you are doing ), nor is there any measurable response What discipleship plan is there?).
> 
> If I however spend time with someone over a period of weeks, share Jesus with them, then disciple them, then all 3 of the elements of effective communication are present.
> 
> If SP "gets the word of God out" then why not just dump 100,000's of tracts from a helecopter? Would that not reach more people?
Click to expand...

 
Thanks for answering my question.
I would say that we should be careful not to take on the worldly methods that may be found in your line of work and incorporate them into God's plan for His Gospel. Having said that, it's also not proper for Christians to ignore what makes for good communication.

I'm all for getting tracts out...as a matter of fact, any way of getting the Gospel out i'm for. Are some more effective than others?...sure. But one person may be compelled by a particular method more than another person, so i believe every possible method should be used to better compel every type of person.

_...I have become all things to all people, that by all means I might save some. (1Co 9:22)_

I think it's one thing to be critical of particular street preachers, but quite another to be critical of the practice of street preaching.

Yes, discipleship is important...and that can come with the interaction of folks who are compelled by the street preaching. For instance, if i was street preaching and someone came to me confessing Christ as their Lord and savior, i would certainly help them get plugged in to a local church where discipling could take place.

Though discipleship and evangelizing are related, they are not the same. So while it's important to know where to point people, it's not like the street preacher would be required to take anyone in and personally disciple them (although that's also an option to a certain degree)


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## KMK

larryjf said:


> So while it's important to know where to point people, it's not like the street preacher would be required to take anyone in and personally disciple them (although that's also an option to a certain degree)


 
This personal discipleship would include taking the person to church where they can receive the Word and the sacraments, correct?


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## timmopussycat

Kevin said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Kevin said:
> 
> 
> 
> I have reservations.
> 
> I am not convinced that the gospel is being communicated. The gospel (or something like it) is being shouted, or "shared", but in my observation it is rarely being communicated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Could you explain this a bit. If you stand on a street corner and proclaim the Gospel, how is that not communicating it?
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> I'll try.
> 
> For 20+ years I made my living by communication. I was a consultant, a salesman, and a sales coach/trainer. I have designed many dozens (100's?) of advertising campaigns, i have writen hundreds of pieces of copy, and I have closed 1000's of sales.
> 
> In other words, I can tell effective communication from a waste of time, from a long way off. Effective communication has several elements; a clear, understandable message. A shared "language" (In other words,'s common ground) between the messanger & the hearer. A measurable response.
> 
> . . .
> 
> Most SP (my observation) is not "clear & understandable" (see Stuarts comments above), nor is it in a common "language" ( people standing in line at a club have no idea what you are doing ), nor is there any measurable response What discipleship plan is there?).
> 
> If I however spend time with someone over a period of weeks, share Jesus with them, then disciple them, then all 3 of the elements of effective communication are present.
Click to expand...


I largely agree yet I note that that there have been times when gifted and called street preachers have made quite an impact for the cause of Christ. With for example Whitefield, all 3 elements were usually present and the results were mass crowds and a significant effect on the culture.


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## Kevin

Larry, I expected the old "worldly methods" reply. And for that reason I almost didn't bother replying.

It is my view that most (all?) street preachers that I have heard(of) might as well be preaching in Farsi. They are communicating in such a counter productive way that their supposed audience has less then 0% chance of hearing anything that the preacher thinks that he is saying.

Tim, I think that the contemporary version in our cultre age of the old school "street preachers' such as Whitefield, is Billy Graham, not some guy waving a KJV1611 and yelling at rush hour traffic.


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## Idelette

nleshelman said:


> Personally, I am not a big fan. Maybe it's just because so many street preaches are wacky-shacky.
> 
> Rob McCurly of the Free Church of Scotland (continuing) street preaches quite frequently in his downtown. Here is an interview with his thoughts:
> 
> [video=youtube;E93S1c6miKE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E93S1c6miKE[/video]


 
Pastor McCurley is my Pastor, I actually moved to be part of his church! I cannot speak enough of his godliness and humility before the Lord! He is one of the few solid reformed men that still street preaches, sadly there are not many left anymore!


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## KMK

Idelette said:


> He is one of the few solid reformed men that still street preaches, sadly there are not many left anymore!


 
How do you know this?


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## Edward

Joshua said:


> Street preaching is dangerous. I'd stick to the sidewalks, for fear of traffic


 
I would submit for your consideration this from the great reformed teacher, Thomas J. Jackson:

"God has fixed the time for my death. I do not concern myself about that, but to be always ready, no matter when it may overtake me."


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## calgal

Brother Jed Smock. 'Nuff said.


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## jandrusk

I side with the scriptures, more specifically Philippians 1:15-18: "Some indeed preach Christ from envy and rivalry, but others from good will.
The latter do it out of love, knowing that I am put here for the defense of the gospel.
The former proclaim Christ out of rivalry, not sincerely but thinking to afflict me in my imprisonment.
What then? Only that in every way, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice."

So I don't think it matters if Christ is preached in a church, barn, the woods, or on the street as long as the pure gospel is preached and in this we should rejoice.


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## T.A.G.

Lets ask Whitefield or the Apostles,I wonder what they would think?

I witness my faith a lot. I preach the gospel one on one which is my favorite thing to do (especially on campuses), but I some times open air as well. I will tell you there will be some times where there will be a hundred people listening to you. Other times there will be none. I think it is something that God really has to put a desire on your heart for and I think there is a certain time to use it and not use it. I have seen people saved right off the street from it and then in the church for years. I have seen people get really angry and try to stab you and everyone is mocking. It just depends on if God has called you to it. The founder of a ministry I am with is a great street preacher, I mean this guy has a knack for getting big crowds all the time. But let me make it clear, if someone wanted to preach to a barn the biblical and full counsel of God then by all means let the man preach, he is worshipping his God. To many people today hear a water down gospel message, give me a man who has a love for Christ and a burning for His glory and I will listen to him preach on the streets any day of the week. 

Heres Paul Washer and a few other guys on this topic, I recommend the video when it comes out this June.

[video=youtube;Up4OQ_TXt6g]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Up4OQ_TXt6g&feature=player_embedded[/video]

<object width="640" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Up4OQ_TXt6g&hl=en_US&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Up4OQ_TXt6g&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></embed></object>

people always act the same in their time and in ours. They either shun the message like a ravenous wolves or they run to the gospel with all of their might. Be confronted with truth does just that..


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## Wayne

Any of you familiar with Holy Hubert Lindsay, who used to preach on the UC Berkley campus?

I used to be involved with a group that did street preaching in Norman, OK at the University. After the first few times, we barely got any response. Then one semester, Holy Hubert shows up and immediately got a huge crowd. Very interesting to watch the differences.


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## Pergamum

Whitefield was invited and he preached to the willing. Street preachers often harangue the unwilling.


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## larryjf

KMK said:


> larryjf said:
> 
> 
> 
> So while it's important to know where to point people, it's not like the street preacher would be required to take anyone in and personally disciple them (although that's also an option to a certain degree)
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This personal discipleship would include taking the person to church where they can receive the Word and the sacraments, correct?
Click to expand...

 
Correct.

---------- Post added at 07:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:43 AM ----------




Kevin said:


> Larry, I expected the old "worldly methods" reply. And for that reason I almost didn't bother replying.
> 
> It is my view that most (all?) street preachers that I have heard(of) might as well be preaching in Farsi. They are communicating in such a counter productive way that their supposed audience has less then 0% chance of hearing anything that the preacher thinks that he is saying.
> 
> Tim, I think that the contemporary version in our cultre age of the old school "street preachers' such as Whitefield, is Billy Graham, not some guy waving a KJV1611 and yelling at rush hour traffic.


 
If you were that specific originally i would have agreed with you right off the bat....i'm against a guy waving a KJV1611 and yelling at rush hour traffic. I wouldn't even consider that preaching.

---------- Post added at 07:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:46 AM ----------

Didn't Christ and the Apostles preach to both the willing and the unwilling?


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## T.A.G.

How much do you know about whitefield?


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## tommyb

Pergamum said:


> Whitefield was invited and he preached to the willing. Street preachers often harangue the unwilling.



Whitefield had numerous scars from the rotten fruit and rocks which were frequently thrown at him. Same with Wesley. But he never even considered letting that discourage him. Whitefield was also disinvited from preaching in many Churches, especially in his early years. That's what fueled his open air preaching along with with the size of the crowds which began coming to listen to him. There is nothing wrong with street preaching so long as it is the Gospel being preached. Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.


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## Pergamum

Tom, note that you wrote about people "coming to listen to Whitefield" - many people do not have this option with street preachers who lay in wait on street corners to harangue passers-by, or preach to assembled soldiers in formation who cannot fall out but must stand and listen.


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## wmc1982

as long as he brings his elders along with him


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## T.A.G.

Pergamum said:


> Tom, note that you wrote about people "coming to listen to Whitefield" - many people do not have this option with street preachers who lay in wait on street corners to harangue passers-by, or preach to assembled soldiers in formation who cannot fall out but must stand and listen.


 Yes and sometimes he did have lots of people come to him to hear the gospel willingly. But at other times as brother tom stated, there was lots of people who hated him for preaching loud and the certain message that he preached and they threw pieces of dead cats at him.


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## Pergamum

But they almost always had to come to him to provide the free kitties!


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## KMK

tommyb said:


> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.


 
Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.


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## tommyb

Pergamum said:


> Tom, note that you wrote about people "coming to listen to Whitefield" - many people do not have this option with street preachers who lay in wait on street corners to harangue passers-by, or preach to assembled soldiers in formation who cannot fall out but must stand and listen.



Similar, more obnoxious, acts are done by misguided Pastors. I'm certainly not going to dismiss the entire Baptist Church because of the actions of the Fred Phelps of the world.


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## Pergamum

I support the public proclamation of the Gospel, I just urge wisdom in making sure that the main offense we give is the Cross and no other.


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## waynedawg

Joshua - Why do you feel one must be an ordained minister to street preach the true Gospel? Or were you just putting that condition on yourself?

Thanks


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## T.A.G.

I agree


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## waynedawg

KMK said:


> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
Click to expand...

 
KMK - Why would any street preacher who is called by God (to preach) need to be 'approved and called by the church' (or ordained) to be qualified to proclaim the Gospel on the street, subway, public park,etc.

Thanks


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## tommyb

KMK said:


> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
Click to expand...

Was Bunyan approved and called by the church to preach? We both know than answer to that but I think his fruit and results make it clear he was called by the Lord to do so.


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## Scott1

> Philippians 1
> 
> ....
> 
> 13So that my bonds in Christ are manifest in all the palace, and in all other places;
> 
> 14And many of the brethren in the Lord, waxing confident by my bonds, are much more bold to speak the word without fear.
> 
> 15Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will:
> 
> 16The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds:
> 
> 17But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel.
> 
> 18What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice.



Somehow, I'm looking at this through the lens of the Apostle's experience.

Yes, their theology of salvation and their reliance on method are important items to contend for. I would look for opportunity to engage him, as a brother, trusting God for the results.

But if he is preaching a straight Gospel, and condemning sin, I would only privately encourage, admonish, and engage the brother and not oppose him publicly.

God uses people who are offensive, with wrong practices, insensitive, and ignorant... thankfully salvation is not dependent on our perfection.... and all praise be to God for that!


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## waynedawg

tommyb said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Bunyan approved and called by the church to preach? We both know than answer to that but I think his fruit and results make it clear he was called by the Lord to do so.
Click to expand...


Tom is right on here.

Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He didn't add any conditions to that command. Why would we?

Thanks


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## heartoflesh

Albert Martin started out preaching on the street corner when he was 18.


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## KMK

waynedawg said:


> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> KMK - Why would any street preacher who is called by God (to preach) need to be 'approved and called by the church' (or ordained) to be qualified to proclaim the Gospel on the street, subway, public park,etc.
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...

 
Please reread post #12

The Reformed confessional view is that Jesus calls men through the ministry of His Word, and that ministry is an office of the church, and office holders are 'called and approved'. The Reformed confessional view does not hold that preaching is exclusively the calling of pastors and elders, however, "*others also *gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, *and approved and called by the church*, may and ought to perform it." (LBC 26:11)

Hope that helps.


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## Willem van Oranje

As an occasional street-preacher myself, let me say that although there may be more effective methods, this is not a reason not to street-preach. John Wesley and George Whitefield engaged in street-preaching. There are people who may not hear the gospel another way--who may not darken the door of a church, listen to Christian radio, or have any Christian friends. We should preach on the streets, but not only on the streets. Let us preach in pulpits, in the streets, in parks, on the radio, on tv, in chapels, and anywhere else we may find opportunity. I would say the same about going door to door. We should do it, but not only that. 

I used to preach on the street in Utah in front of the LDS Missionary Training Center, and in downtown Salt Lake City. Most of the time my loud utterances led to lengthy one-on-one conversations. For broadly exposing people to the gospel who had never heard it before, it was hard to beat. In addition to the potential evangelistic impact, I would encourage all Christians to do this occasionally because it is such a great experience. Preaching on the street to strangers makes you overcome your fears about being looked down upon for the sake of the gospel or being seen as peculiar, and helps light the fire of fervency for the cause of Christ. Once this energy is ignited in Christians it can be used in a multitude of different endeavors.


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## Marvin Torgeson

When it comes to street preaching, its pretty obvious that if they (Christian street preachers) can do it with passion, conviction and love they have a calling to preach the gospel. Now, there are the Caveats we all know, the Mormons and JW's can preach too, and so do other cults at times and various heretical groups. Because external things can be imitated by the ungodly. 

There are bad street preachers....the bad ones are not bad ...
because they preach on hell and damnation
or preach against the cultural sins
or preach against cults or warn of false teachers
or because they get in-your-face
Bad street preachers preach legalistically to the crowd. Ethical warnings, exhortations, offers of grace that are given in such a way that creates the idea that Christianity is just another 'religious group' that is telling man what to do to be good and go to heaven. Bad street preachers preach a love-message without preaching the sin that alienates them from God. Bad street preachers allow the fear of being rejected to temper their message so that they will not be so offensive to the unbelieving crowds. Bad street preachers do not develope the message of grace upon the backdrop of law and sinfulness. 
They either develope law and sinfulness and then cover the grace of God with a covering of 'earning it by repenting and going to church'; or they preach so much on the love of God and kindness of God that there is no backdrop against which the undeserved kindness of God is to be understood. People will actually walk away going " I know God loves me cause I do such and such thing". 

Good street preachers preach righteousness by faith, their sins have seperated them from God, judgment for sins is coming,
forgiveness of sins is available. Good street preachers present the gospel, present the law, and call for immediate repentance and
belief. Good street preachers are bold to tell people that there is nothing they can do to save themselves. Jesus alone has come to save them, faith in Jesus alone will save them. Good street preachers present the grace of God to the unbelievers in such a way that they realize(by the power of the Spirit) God will forgive sins and will be merciful simply because God has determined to save people and bring them to himself. 

Ive preached in the streets for years, Ive done one on one and handed out tracts. Ive used megaphones and Ive yelled it out. Ive listened to the Spirit of God to take me exactly person to person to witness Christ. Ive knocked on doors and preached at parks. Ive preached from the back of the Van and used interpreters in Mexico. 

Engaging the crowds requires skill and boldness. Getting folks to listen when your dealing with sin and evil is difficult. 
Even moreso over the last 10-15 yrs now where hecklers are just as bold and you cannot tell who is a heckler. 
I dont do much street preaching now simply because the results are very slim. Fewer and fewer will ask questions or want to be prayed for. More and more hecklers and more and more confrontations lead to the cops coming and taking everyones mind off of the gospel and on to the 'drama'. Now thats not to say that street preaching is by-gone, Im saying that its difficult at best. 

Those who are street preaching and know they love to do it and know they need to do it, should be greatly appreciated and offered whatever training and help they can get. Usually street preachers are the 'worst' of the preaching candidates that church has to chose from. Worst because they are confrontational, strong, bold, blunt and have little interest in mens opinion of them. 
Churches that want polish, politic and professionalism dig from shallower and safer pits. 

My best offering to a congregation is a seminary trained street preacher...but then again no ones asking me.

---------- Post added at 05:50 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:30 PM ----------

Joshua: Ad nauseum to you is not necessarily that way for everyone especially new-bies.

Confessions will never replace God-calling and confessions though important dont serve God, they serve the Body. Meaning that God doesnt require the WCF or any other confession to call and anoint his ministers where no such confessions are available or taught. Even then, God still doesnt need our permission to send his chosen man anywhere anytime and in any spiritual condition. 
This is not to undo confessions or the necessity of them, but it must be realized that the Sovereign God may in his way determine to bless the body by the use of confessions, but confessions do not serve God nor do they provide criteria for Him. 

Remember that God gave us the Calvin before he gave us the institutes. He gave us Paul before he gave us the letters. 
God brings the man to Himself first, then afterward he receives the mans offering.


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## Willem van Oranje

There is an important distinction between "preaching" in the formal sense of an approved minister preaching the Word of God as an act of stated worship in the Christian Church, and just the proclamation of the good news of salvation in Christ by Christians who are addressing the unchurched, which can take many forms, and is also sometimes called, "preaching" if he or she is talking to many people at one time. Similar to the way the words "apostle" and "deacon" are sometimes used in the New Testament in a strict sense of a particular church office, but at other times these words are used in a more general sense not connected with the formal office of apostle or deacon, respectively. Street "preaching" ought to be take in the more general sense of the word since it is performed outside the church, primarily to unbelievers, and that it is often not an activity which is conducted formally or authoritatively on behalf of the church or in the church's name. It can be in a sense just an outgrowth of a Christian's desire to communicate the reason for the joy he or she has inside and talk to people about it who don't know, something one does as part of a lifestyle of Christian witness. In this sense I do not believe it is required for a "street preacher" to be set aside as if this were a particular ministry. However the ministers of the word should labor to equip their congregations to be an effective witness in the world so they can communicate effectively when they have opportunity.


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## Willem van Oranje

Francis Turretin--

*
23rd question*_Of how many kinds is the call to the ministry and is an ordinary call always necessary? We distinguish_

...II. First, we take for granted that it is not treated here of the general call to Christianity, by which men are called to the church and which is common to all believers; but of the special call to the ministry which is peculiar to pastors, by which certain men are selected for the public ministry and (their life and doctrine having been approved) are consecrated to God by a sollemn ceremony and put in possession o fthe office. Nor do we treat concerning the private preaching of the gospel, by which individual believers are bound by the common law of love to teach, to admonish and to lead their brethren and neighbors to faith and salvation; but concerning public preaching with authority, the necessity of which is laid upon those who by a special call are consecrated to the public work of the ministry.


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## Marvin Torgeson

Willem van Oranje said:


> There is an important distinction between "preaching" in the formal sense of an approved minister preaching the Word of God as an act of stated worship in the Christian Church, and just the proclamation of the good news of salvation in Christ by Christians who are addressing the unchurched, which can take many forms, and is also sometimes called, "preaching" if he or she is talking to many people at one time. Similar to the way the words "apostle" and "deacon" are sometimes used in the New Testament in a strict sense of a particular church office, but at other times these words are used in a more general sense not connected with the formal office of apostle or deacon, respectively. Street "preaching" ought to be take in the more general sense of the word since it is performed outside the church, primarily to unbelievers, and that it is often not an activity which is conducted formally or authoritatively on behalf of the church or in the church's name. It can be in a sense just an outgrowth of a Christian's desire to communicate the reason for the joy he or she has inside and talk to people about it who don't know, something one does as part of a lifestyle of Christian witness. In this sense I do not believe it is required for a "street preacher" to be set aside as if this were a particular ministry. However the ministers of the word should labor to equip their congregations to be an effective witness in the world so they can communicate effectively when they have opportunity.



Riley: I think this differentiation is important to bring out. Ruling the flock of God and feeding it, training it and protecting it
involve much more than the knowledge of the gospel message. A few street preachers are pastors, but the majority are not. 
Qualifications for Pastoral ministry are much more detailed..1 Tim 3. Yet, street evangelism is not spelled out in scripture
as requiring 'ordination' or approval from a governing body. Yet, I would round up all the street preachers and give them some valuable doctrinal training, speaking lessons and some teaching on ethics. Then send them right back out the door. 

To me when someone says that street preaching is 'not a particular ministry' to me, they haven really done much street preaching or hasnt taken it on as a God-given calling. Street preaching can be relegated to some few who go out on a week end and spend a few hours at a Mall or Park or downtown. Examples can be found for this and the "professional" ministers think little of it. 
Those street preachers who have gone long in years to preach the gospel in various places, towns, streets, Malls, parks, events, beaches etc turn it into a viable ministry. What you interceed for, what you seek God for, what you sacrifice for and hazard your security and your 'reputation' for must be considered a 'particular ministry'. 

Speaking in general to everyone here....

This is an important thing to recognize by the local Pastor. He may have an evangelist on his hands, he may have a God-called Church leader up-coming. But he will never know if he trivalizes that young mans seriousness to preach the gospel and hazard himself to do it. A leader looks for the workings of God within the lives of his congregation and when he finds a specimen that shows the fruit of the Spirit in that way he should see to it the street preacher is advantaged by the leadership, training and is prayed for. 

The pharasees believed John the Baptist to be a prophet, but they couldnt stomach his truth, nor could they invite him into their
homes. John broke the mold, he was out of the box, he didnt shibboleth with the rulers. Every street preacher admires John the Baptist because of the hardness which John stood against. 
Telling some street preacher that he is not approved, or that he is not "set apart" unto ministry is like asking Jesus "by what authority" do you do these things. If you want confessions to help that young preacher, if you want the congregation to approve that street preachers ministry then you had better come at him with some real serious zeal yourself. He wont for a minute sit still and let a congregation of sleepers tell him to sit down and shut up. He will recognize that pastor for the lousy job he's doing in not inspiring the congregation to be zealous of good works and be diligent to proclaim the gospel in all its various forms. He will look at the hypocrisy and conclude this pastor has nothing to offer except discouragement. 
If he meets a pastor that has done his job and God has raised up young new zealous men he will want to know them and want to hear what that pastor has to say. He can indentify with the pastor as a man that cares about the lost. Like passion attracts like passion. 

Evangelists are very individualistic. Ive never met an evangelist that is not a solitary person. Evangelists go it alone so much that its strange when a pastor takes interest in them. The truth be known, a pastor for the most part doesnt know what to do with an Evangelist. The problem lay in the fact that the pastor has a strong leader with a strong passion and is willing to preach the gospel in bold ways...yet....that same pastor cant groom him for 'associate pastor' role. He wont fit. The pastor may not want to invest time into the young Evangelist because he's too pointed, or confrontative to weak sheep. The Evangelist isnt interested in 
administrative duties where sister so and so is paid to clean offices. 

Some have gone so far as to exclude the office altogether because the Evangelist wont fit the "Pastors box". Its a shame but its
out there.

---------- Post added 03-20-2010 at 12:04 AM ---------- Previous post was 03-19-2010 at 11:39 PM ----------

Joshua: God calls men not confessions. God has his own word which is backed by his authority. You know this. 
God makes the man, calls the man and fits the man for divine use. Confessions are a tool, they are not a door to the ministry. The sabbath was made for man, not man for the sabbath. 

If we determine that our confessions, tradition or governments are the criteria for God, we only need look around us. God is breaking the rules everywhere, everyday. They mean nothing to him. 

"we saw one casting out devils and we forbid him".....Jesus said "forbid him not" 

Before anyone decides that Im anti-confessional. Dont waste your typing time. I love the confessions. I just dont replace the Holy Spirit with a confession. I dont replace the Divine call and providence with litmus tests that only serve to seperate brothers from brothers. 

The fact that we can disapprove someone based upon not following a 'confession' proves we have an operable tool to help us
remain faithful. But when the confession is built into an iron-clad wall to disapprove and scorn others who have not had the opportunity to gain our advantage of learning we show that we have replaced the Spirit of God with a non-discerning format for cookie cutter Christianity. God will always (look at your history) chose his own and make them his own without our criteria.


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## Pergamum

My concern is not the 'sent-ness" of the man so much as the usual offensiveness of his methodologies.


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## christianyouth

Pergamum, we had a really great discussion on this awhile back.

http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/park-evangelism-48909/

Good to see a lot of new posters in this thread.


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## KMK

To all concerned:



> WLC Q. 158. By whom is the Word of God to be preached?
> A. The Word of God is to be preached only by such as are sufficiently gifted, and also duly approved and called to that office.





> LBC 26:11 Although it be incumbent on the bishops or pastors of the churches, to be instant in preaching the word, by way of office, yet the work of preaching the word is not so peculiarly confined to them but that others also gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it,* and approved and called by the church*, may and ought to perform it.



If you want to use the word 'preaching' to describe an activity done without regard to calling and approval by the church, you are using the word 'preaching' in an unconfessional manner. No one is arguing against Christians sharing the gospel or their testimony or their faith. The argument is against the unconfessional use of the word 'preaching'. Undoubtedly, the word 'preaching' is used differently today than it was 400 years ago. Nevertheless, this is a board dedicated to the Reformed confessions. How are we going to discuss things confessionally if we don't protect the confessional definitions?


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## Rich Koster

Princeton Open-Air Evangelism Today


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## Willem van Oranje

"Street preaching" need not be offensive. 

There are some "street preachers" who are intentially offensive, and this is wrong.

One tactic I have used is to mention God's judgment on sin (i. e. eternal damnation in hell) as something that we all deserve. In other words I was careful to make clear that I deserve to go to hell just as my hearers do. I'm sure some were offended at the idea that they are sinners deserving to be punished eternally in hell, but they couldn't say that I was looking down on them. 

Communicating this way I would actually get people responding with questions or opposing arguments that they would shout back!


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## KMK

Marvin Torgeson said:


> Speaking in general to everyone here....
> 
> Some have gone so far as to exclude the office altogether because the Evangelist wont fit the "Pastors box". Its a shame but its
> out there.




I know you would rather speak in generalities, but if you are going to level accusations of shameful behavior you need to do so specifically. Who are these 'some' to whom you refer? Posters in this thread or others outside of PB?


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## waynedawg

KMK said:


> waynedawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> KMK - Why would any street preacher who is called by God (to preach) need to be 'approved and called by the church' (or ordained) to be qualified to proclaim the Gospel on the street, subway, public park,etc.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Please reread post #12
> 
> The Reformed confessional view is that Jesus calls men through the ministry of His Word, and that ministry is an office of the church, and office holders are 'called and approved'. The Reformed confessional view does not hold that preaching is exclusively the calling of pastors and elders, however, "*others also *gifted and fitted by the Holy Spirit for it, *and approved and called by the church*, may and ought to perform it." (LBC 26:11)
> 
> Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

 

Thank you.

---------- Post added at 08:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:00 PM ----------




Joshua said:


> waynedawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua - Why do you feel one must be an ordained minister to street preach the true Gospel?
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Wayne,
> 
> Because the Gospel _Ministry_ is for _ministers_. I'm not inclined to go into details in this thread, however, due to the fact that this has been discussed _ad nauseum_ elsewhere here (lest I detract from the immediate subject).
> 
> Here are just a few threads out of about a bazillion concerning the subject:
> 
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/evangelize-like-arminian-56136/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/scriptural-warrant-witness-56195/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/reformed-evangelism-58531/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/biblical-defense-lay-ministry-lay-evangelism-47080/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/biblical-defense-lay-ministry-lay-evangelism-part-2-a-47236/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/great-commission-only-apostles-58678/
> 
> And here are two good articles on the subject:
> 
> Ordained Servant Online
> Ordained Servant Online
Click to expand...

 
Sorry - I'm real new here (and in the reformed faith) and still trying to navigate through all the different threads. Thanks for the links!

---------- Post added at 08:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:12 PM ----------




Joshua said:


> waynedawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua - Why do you feel one must be an ordained minister to street preach the true Gospel?
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Wayne,
> 
> Because the Gospel _Ministry_ is for _ministers_. I'm not inclined to go into details in this thread, however, due to the fact that this has been discussed _ad nauseum_ elsewhere here (lest I detract from the immediate subject).
> 
> Here are just a few threads out of about a bazillion concerning the subject:
> 
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/evangelize-like-arminian-56136/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/scriptural-warrant-witness-56195/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/reformed-evangelism-58531/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/biblical-defense-lay-ministry-lay-evangelism-47080/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/biblical-defense-lay-ministry-lay-evangelism-part-2-a-47236/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/great-commission-only-apostles-58678/
> 
> And here are two good articles on the subject:
> 
> Ordained Servant Online
> Ordained Servant Online
Click to expand...

 
Sorry - I'm real new here (and the reformed faith too) and trying to navigate through all the different topics is almost over whelming. Thanks for the links!


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## Willem van Oranje

Joshua said:


> waynedawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> Joshua - Why do you feel one must be an ordained minister to street preach the true Gospel?
> 
> 
> 
> Dear Wayne,
> 
> Because the Gospel _Ministry_ is for _ministers_. I'm not inclined to go into details in this thread, however, due to the fact that this has been discussed _ad nauseum_ elsewhere here (lest I detract from the immediate subject).
> 
> Here are just a few threads out of about a bazillion concerning the subject:
> 
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/evangelize-like-arminian-56136/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/scriptural-warrant-witness-56195/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/reformed-evangelism-58531/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/biblical-defense-lay-ministry-lay-evangelism-47080/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/biblical-defense-lay-ministry-lay-evangelism-part-2-a-47236/
> http://www.puritanboard.com/f71/great-commission-only-apostles-58678/
> 
> And here are two good articles on the subject:
> 
> Ordained Servant Online
> Ordained Servant Online
Click to expand...

 
Joshua,

Thank you for these links, particularly those from the Ordained Servant. I read them with surprise for this was the first of this kind of idea I had read from the official publications of the OPC. Rev. Dennison's idea of the role (or lack thereof) of laypersons in evangelism does seem to be quite out of step with the position of the OPC foreign missions committee.


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## Semper Fidelis

Willem van Oranje said:


> Joshua,
> 
> Thank you for these links, particularly those from the Ordained Servant. I read them with surprise for this was the first of this kind of idea I had read from the official publications of the OPC. Rev. Dennison's idea of the role (or lack thereof) of laypersons in evangelism does seem to be quite out of step with the position of the OPC foreign missions committee.


How so? The OPC actually ordains ministers to the office of Evangelist. They are ordained by the Presbytery and sent to their respective fields. Can you point me to something that the Foreign Missions Committee has stated otherwise?


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## Mushroom

waynedawg said:


> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Bunyan approved and called by the church to preach? We both know than answer to that but I think his fruit and results make it clear he was called by the Lord to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tom is right on here.
> 
> Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He didn't add any conditions to that command. Why would we?
> 
> Thanks
Click to expand...

Aah! The sad effects of existentialist thought on the modern mind! Could this be any more unbiblical? "We're all free to do as we please!" My dear canine neighbor, did you read the membership requirements of this board before joining? Or did you ignore those inconvenient stodgy old herd mentality rules and join anyway, thinking you would write your own as you went along?


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## Pergamum

Brad said:


> waynedawg said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> KMK said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> tommyb said:
> 
> 
> 
> Every single complaint against street preachers I've seen in this thread would equally apply to many ordained "Pastors" preaching from the pulpit. The second best selling Christian book of all time after the Bible, Pilgrim's Progress was written by an amazing street preacher.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not sure if you are addressing my post, but mine is not complaint against all 'street preachers', just those that are not approved and called by the church. All 'ordained' Pastors would, by definition, be approved and called by the church.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Was Bunyan approved and called by the church to preach? We both know than answer to that but I think his fruit and results make it clear he was called by the Lord to do so.
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> 
> Tom is right on here.
> 
> Jesus told us to go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. He didn't add any conditions to that command. Why would we?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Click to expand...
> 
> Aah! The sad effects of existentialist thought on the modern mind! Could this be any more unbiblical? "We're all free to do as we please!" My dear canine neighbor, did you read the membership requirements of this board before joining? Or did you ignore those inconvenient stodgy old herd mentality rules and join anyway, thinking you would write your own as you went along?
Click to expand...

 
Uncalled for Brad.

If he was actually doing as most people pleased he wouldn't be interested in fulfilling the Great Commission at all.


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## Southern Presbyterian

Moderator

Time to take a break from this one folks.

/Moderator


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