# Christian Psychology of Spanking



## nicnap (Apr 3, 2007)

My mother is doing a report for school on this, and is in need of some resources. Please help if you can...I know Adams and Tripp, but can someone give me a Christian Psychologist's resource on spanking? Thanks


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 3, 2007)

Uggh...Christian Psychologist?

I'd be curious if you could find one with a Reformed outlook.

My wife has an undergrad in Psychology and a Masters in Family and Child Development. Based on seeing what she studied, I'm not a big fan of the models that Psychology uses for human behavior nor their attempts to syncretize a materialistic philosophy with the Christian religion.

I would simply never attach the word Christian as an adjective to the field of Psychology. If you find a resource it's going to be Arminian.


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## fredtgreco (Apr 3, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> Uggh...Christian Psychologist?
> 
> I'd be curious if you could find one with a Reformed outlook.
> 
> ...



If you find one, it is likely to be Jim Hurely.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 3, 2007)

fredtgreco said:


> If you find one, it is likely to be Jim Hurely.



Who's he?


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## Ivan (Apr 3, 2007)

SemperFideles said:


> Uggh...Christian Psychologist?
> 
> I'd be curious if you could find one with a Reformed outlook.
> 
> ...



Totally agree.


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## No Longer A Libertine (Apr 4, 2007)

I'm not opposed to psychology all together, but the difference between secular counseling and Christian counsel would be that the shrink points the blame at all that is outside of you and asks you to turn within to fix it and heal.

Scripture and thus the Christian tells us that we are depraved and self absorbed and can blame our own sin on no one but oursleves since we are the rightful owners of it regardless of temptations and injustices, we then are directed outside of ourselves for peace and redemption by turning to Christ.

This seemingly subtle yet drastic change is what is morally wrong and bankrupt with the paradigms of secular psychology.


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## BuddyOfDavidClarkson (Apr 4, 2007)

Amen!



SemperFideles said:


> Uggh...Christian Psychologist?
> 
> I'd be curious if you could find one with a Reformed outlook.
> 
> ...


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## govols (Apr 4, 2007)

Then you have Dobson who is a psychologist hiding under a christian banner.


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## govols (Apr 4, 2007)

I think that NANC offers some solid assistance, which Adams is a part of:

National Association of Nouthetic Counselors


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## nicnap (Apr 4, 2007)

Thanks for the responses, but I am looking more for books...I have Adams and Tripp...but this is for her psychology class, and I need to help her. I am at a loss.


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## Semper Fidelis (Apr 4, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> What about the Christian counselors being trained by folks like Jay Adams?
> 
> 
> And what about the Abraham Kuyper quote about every inch of the earth being the Lord's. Is there anything in counseling that is redeemable?



I wish it didn't have a "label" like neuthetic counselling where people become "professionally trained counselors".

I heard it said one time: Who are you going to trust for advice about trouble with your marriage: a solid Christian couple with 50 years of happy marriage and 2 generations of Godly seed or a 24 year old with a Masters degree?

We have a culture of "experts" today that assumes that if a person has a degree that they're qualified to give advice on what are, essentially, ethical matters. The materialistic philsophy of Psychology assigns people to models of human behavior that have no ground in Scripture. Almost any sin you can imagine has a diagnosis in the DSM-IV.

I believe the ideal counselor is a mature elder in Christ with emphasis on the adjective _mature_. I believe the Jay Adams has great insights first and foremost because he studies theology and has a Pastor's heart. I don't think you can simply read about and study the complex ways in which men and women need counsel. It takes both the "theory" as well as maturity to know how to apply it. This is why I'm _for_ the type of training that a Neuthetic curricula can provide to help a Pastor or Elder in his development but I'm _against_ Neuthetic counseling if someone just takes the principles like Job's friends adopting the Proverbs and running out and opening up shop as a Neuthetic counselor. I think true counsel is provided in the framework of Covenant life.

I'm talking about the good stuff by the way. Have any of you guys ever read the stuff that passes for "Biblical Counseling" in some quarters. I was at a PCA in Northern VA in 1999 and started taking a "Biblical Counseling" class. There were portions of the curriculum that were overtly Arminian that I detected immediately even though I was a relative novice to Reformed theology. Add to that, the whole thing consisted of proof-texting what the counsel would be based on any given situation. Have a problem with your wife? Let's find every verse that has the word "wife" in it no matter if it's in context or not and give some great "Biblical" advice. I remember bringing up the Arminianism and the prooftexting out of context to the Elder who was in charge and he just sort of stared blankly at me as if he'd never really considered it before. At the time, it really shocked me because I was convinced that the PCA had no Elders that were not pinnacles of Reformed orthodoxy and wisdom (this is not intended as a joke, it really let me down a bit).


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## Civbert (Apr 4, 2007)

trevorjohnson said:


> What about the Christian counselors being trained by folks like Jay Adams?
> 
> 
> And what about the Abraham Kuyper quote about every inch of the earth being the Lord's. Is there anything in counseling that is redeemable?


Christian counseling and Christian psychiatry may be two different things. Is there something inherently anti-Christian in psychiatry? I'd not be surprised to find that most "Christian psychiatrists" assume un-Christian premises about the true nature of man - but I don't know if this is by definition of by common practice. 

"Psychology" by definition seems to be general enough by definition that it would not necessarily be anti-Christian. In fact, since the definition is "the study of the mind", then a sound Christian theologian would also be a psychologist. He might not be a good "counselor" or psychiatrist, but he understands the true nature of the mind of man, and has studied the mind of man pre- and post- regeneration. The main difference would then be the presuppositions that the non-Christian would bring to the study of the mind.

With the right presuppositions, no field of study is off-limits to Christian. As long as the Christian is consistent and conscientious about applying those presuppositions to those fields of study. As long as he recognizes that the scriptures are the foundation of knowledge, and not empiricism (the scientific method) or rationalism (the mind of man itself).


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## crhoades (Apr 4, 2007)

I highly recommend CCEF up in Philly. Powlison, Welch, Tripp, Lane etc. teach there as well as at WTS PA. I've been through training up there with Tripp and Lane in order to use their material on How Peopele Change. We're actually using their curriculum for Sunday School right now and it is going great. The Journal of Biblical Counseling that was started by Adams under a different name is a bargain on cd-rom. Limited time to discuss right now but I can recommend these guys without reservation.

http://ccef.org/home.htm

Oh yeah....ditto to everything Rich said above.


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## bradofshaw (Apr 4, 2007)

nicnap said:


> My mother is doing a report for school on this, and is in need of some resources. Please help if you can...I know Adams and Tripp, but can someone give me a Christian Psychologist's resource on spanking? Thanks



Jim Hurley (head of Marriage and Family Therapy at RTS Jackson) would be probably the best resource out there from a "Christian Psychologists" perspective. He's certainly a field leader not only among Christians but also in the secular world. And if some of the reactions in this thread have you confused about whether or not Christian Psychology an oxymoron, you could at least get his opinion. I can't speak for him, but I would imagine he responds to e-mails, as a lot of the RTS faculty seem to. He's a kind and brilliant guy one way or the other and would probably be able to give you some good info on the subject.

As for the idea that Christians should abandon the study of psychology, I really think this is an area where Christians need to do work from a solid Christian perspective. There is a lot to learn about the mind, and I don't think we should allow the Secularists and Freudians to be the sole keepers of the data. Yes, pastors and elders should be our counselors. But I would not be opposed to Christians practicing in the field as long as they don't subvert the role of the elders.


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