# what would us say to a PCUSA pastor



## Weston Stoler (Sep 24, 2011)

Me and my friend PIANOMAN have lived in this college town that has only one Presbyterian church (the first one I had ever came in contact with) and it is PCUSA and I posted this to his profile

"A Latin phrase the PCUSA should learn? “ecclesia reformata, semper reformanda.”"

Then I realize he is a friend of the pastor and he replyed on his profile


"I think PCUSA abides by that watchword phrase from the Reformation quite well!"

How would you respond?


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## Rich Koster (Sep 24, 2011)

I am actually friends with a PCUSA pastor. We have great conversations together. We became friends through visitations to my dad, when he was ill and dying. He asked my why I don't attend with my parents and I told him, effectively, that the denomination has a low view of the Word of God. This has manifested itself in the female elders and acceptability of homosexual practice for starters. Their pragmatic excuses for editing God's word don't line up with Sola Scriptura, as a denomination. He is more conservative, personally, but the congregation he is at, is not.


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## Weston Stoler (Sep 24, 2011)

Rich Koster said:


>



Thats what I'm sayin!


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Sep 24, 2011)

Frankly, I would refrain from replying at all. There are many apostate churches in the PCUSA, and more than a few theologically conservative churches, although not strictly confessional. Unless you know something very specific about the doctrine of this particular church, I would simply let it go. And consider offering sincere prayer for the whole mess.


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## Weston Stoler (Sep 24, 2011)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> Frankly, I would refrain from replying at all. There are many apostate churches in the PCUSA, and more than a few theologically conservative churches, although not strictly confessional. Unless you know something very specific about the doctrine of this particular church, I would simply let it go. And consider offering sincere prayer for the whole mess.



They are pretty apostate, He is very glad that homosexuals could potentially now "finally" preach in PCUSA churches......


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## O'GodHowGreatThouArt (Sep 24, 2011)

There's a rebellious church or two in every apostate denomination (in regards to adherence of essential doctrines; not talking about Mormon or Oneness Pentecostal churches  ) that adhere to the Gospel in its entirety and fullness, as well as sola scriptura. Maybe this church is one of them?

But like Mark said, unless you have evidence saying the above is true of this church, just let it go and pray for the entire PCUSA.


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## Marrow Man (Sep 24, 2011)

First of all, the phrase is not historically accurate. The church is not simply "always reforming," but is "always being reformed according to the Word of God." It's the last part where your friend needs to do some serious self-reflection. Send him a link to this article by Michael Horton: Semper Reformanda by Michael Horton | Reformed Theology Articles at Ligonier.org


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## "William The Baptist" (Sep 24, 2011)

I was hoping Mark (Gulfcoast) would chime in... I was trying to remember if it was "Gulfcoast Presbyterian" or "Backwoods Presbyterian" that had the PC(USA) in their signature.


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## Weston Stoler (Sep 24, 2011)

I think the point of the saying IS that we are to always reform to the word of God. So we don't end up with Female elders, Homosexual practicing pastors, and no gospel in our churches. It doesn't say exactly that but I know it is what it implies.


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## Andres (Sep 24, 2011)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> Frankly, I would refrain from replying at all.



This. Learn to choose your battles. This seems like a case where you just want to prove a point.


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Sep 24, 2011)

There is plenty of gospel preached in my church. Drive on down and broaden your horizons, we would be glad to have you! By all means, I would welcome you into my 20 year struggle (and others much longer than that) to move the Church back towards Orthodoxy and Orthopaxy. How willing are you to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty? Methinks your sincere prayers for folks struggling with what path to take would be a very good start. We covet all the prayers we can get. Fair?


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## Weston Stoler (Sep 24, 2011)

Andres said:


> GulfCoast Presbyterian said:
> 
> 
> > Frankly, I would refrain from replying at all.
> ...



*sigh* good point I am itching for a fight with him (Theologically of course) . This is seemingly the case with me.

---------- Post added at 11:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:18 AM ----------




GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> There is plenty of gospel preached in my church. Drive on down and broaden your horizons, we would be glad to have you! By all means, I would welcome you into my 20 year struggle (and others much longer than that) to move the Church back towards Orthodoxy and Orthopaxy. How willing are you to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty? Methinks your sincere prayers for folks struggling with what path to take would be a very good start. We covet all the prayers we can get. Fair?



If I am ever visiting Mississippi I will look you up lol


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## GulfCoast Presbyterian (Sep 24, 2011)

The prayers of a righteous man can effect much change, my friend. There is no doubt you would win the theological "fight." I have been winning it at Prebytery for years. It hasn't gotten me very far. You will never convince a "Louisvillian" they are wrong, even with Elijah and Enoch standing behind you with a whirlwind on a leash. But the best victory for us all would be reformation, or at least the exodus of whatever sound theology remains. My vote on that is pretty clear. Those of us still in the "fray" covet your prayers, and need your prayers. That is the very best thing you can do vis-a-vis this "pastor." 

God bless you for your witness, and your maturity! 

Mark


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## Jack K (Sep 24, 2011)

Weston Stoler said:


> How would you respond?



It sounds like you and this PCUSA pastor have a starting point you agree on! 

If you ever meet him, you might want to ask what he thinks the church should use as its basis for reformation. Whatever sounds good at the moment, or something more firm?

But don't do it on Facebook. That's not likely to lead to anything good.


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## Rich Koster (Sep 24, 2011)

GulfCoast Presbyterian said:


> There is plenty of gospel preached in my church. Drive on down and broaden your horizons, we would be glad to have you! By all means, I would welcome you into my 20 year struggle (and others much longer than that) to move the Church back towards Orthodoxy and Orthopaxy. How willing are you to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty? Methinks your sincere prayers for folks struggling with what path to take would be a very good start. We covet all the prayers we can get. Fair?



I admire your sticktoitousness. As one who fought many battles in the ABC, for about 8.5 years total, I have no more fight left in me, for when the leadership goes liberal. There is much Gospel preached in my mom's congregation. However, it doesn't seem to be well practiced by the majority of the membership.


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## Andres (Sep 24, 2011)

Weston Stoler said:


> Andres said:
> 
> 
> > GulfCoast Presbyterian said:
> ...



Brother, I've totally been there. I used to daily look for friend's posts on FB that I could counter and "debate" them about. Most of the time I was just trying to stroke my ego. Not saying that's your case, but just be sure you have the right heart/spirit behind it. Here's an quote I found a while back, but it really spoke to me and changed some of my thinking regarding debating folks, especially over the internet. 

"Fleeing controversy over Christ is usually a sign of cowardice. Finding pleasure in it is usually a sign of pride." - John Piper


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## pianoman (Sep 24, 2011)

Well, the preacher didn't know we disagreed with him. Now that he saw that on facebook he knows. Our next encounter should be awkward and quiet. I have learned in the past to "choose" my battles or as I have come to think to let God tell me what to do in these situations. I know we are to "love" those in these heretical states, but also I see scripture were Jesus and the apostles address hypocrisy not very politically correct. This is a constant struggle for me.


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## Scott1 (Sep 24, 2011)

First ask him to be specific, how is the denomination characterized by being like the historic Protestant reformation and always reforming toward the Word of God?


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## SolaScriptura (Sep 24, 2011)

It wouldn't be the Puritan way to just sit idly by and say nothing! Nah, write a treatise against him and challenge him to a public disputation.


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## Jack K (Sep 24, 2011)

Andres said:


> "Fleeing controversy over Christ is usually a sign of cowardice. Finding pleasure in it is usually a sign of pride." - John Piper



Great quote! And so applicable to much of what we discuss here.


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## Zach (Sep 24, 2011)

Andres said:


> "Fleeing controversy over Christ is usually a sign of cowardice. Finding pleasure in it is usually a sign of pride." - John Piper



Thanks for that Andrew, it is very helpful advice in dealing with something going on in my church at present.


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